Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:11:13 EST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Dennis Cardwell <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Re: the scary WSB
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message dated 1/31/98 7:50:42 PM Pacific Standard
Time, bonmark@WEBTV.NET
(mark ricard) writes:
>
> First off
if a teenage boy consented for sex with a older man it is not
> wrong.
Homosexual intercourse with teenage boys was common in Greece and
> many of
other parts of the world. If they consent to it's not wrong.
> Secondly
sex with a teenage boy is different than that of a prepubesent
> child. A
young child is totaly nonacceptable. A teenager is
>
physiologicaly ready for sexual intercourse. A young child is not. As
> far as I
know William S. Burroughs only had sex with teenage boys.
> Therfore
he is not a pedophile. Reading this I hope you will see the
> idot is
you,Denny. I hope this was enlightening for you.
I'm stunned...what is the proper response to a post
such as this? When I
called this fool an idiot earlier in the day,
apparently I gave him far too
much credit. He
would have to study many years to BECOME an idiot.
Dennis
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:51:59 EST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Maggie Dharma <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Wittgenstein, Derrida, all those guys and the Beats
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I've really been trying to follow all the postmodern
analyses of WSB and
others posted by scholars on this list. And while I do
not wish to piss anyone
off, I'm sure I will by posting this postmodern
version of The Lord's Prayer,
which, while not strictly coded, is certainly an
exercise in language.
What kind of exercise, I'll let others decide.
--Maggie
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Our Reification of Patriarchal Authority, who can be
said to inhabit the
positively valorized polarity of the metaphysical
sphere, privileged be thy
signifier. Thy societal structure achieve hegemony,
the enactment of thy
desire be manifested, throughout the axis represented
by the physical-
metaphysical dichotomy. Empower us this day with the
means of material
production, and refuse to enforce sanctions against
our transgressive
subversions of moral perspective, as we refuse to
delegitimize the moral
perspective of the Other. Refer us not to the thetical
term of the dialectics
of desire, but liberate us from the intrinsically
limiting concept of "evil."
For thine is the hegemony, and the dominance, and the
culturally determined
mystification thereof, within the entire continuum of
the Western concept of
linear time. Amyn.
(By Roger Giner-Sorolla)
>From "The Door" magazine, March/April
1996 #146.
-- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - --
No wonder I dint unnerstand what youse guys wuz tawkin
about.
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date:
Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:18:25 -0600
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject:
Re: kicks joy darkness
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie wrote:
> Can
anyone point me in the direction of anymore Beat recordings?
> I've heard of several box sets, including one for
Allen Ginsberg, but
> have yet encountered any in stores. Any help
would be appreciated.
Definitely pick up "Holy Soul Jelly Roll"
(Ginsberg), "The Jack Kerouac
Collection" (all three of his albums released in
the 1950s, with bonus
tracks), and "The Beat Generation" (all
three sets are on the Rhino/Word
Beat label).
There is also a set on Fantasy named something like
"Howls, Raps, Rips, &
Roars" which I haven't heard yet.
Jym
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date:
Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:40:36 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What makes you such a moral authority, Denny?
I would love to know what
you do for a
living passing off smartass comments like that?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:49:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein, Derrida, all those guys
and the Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Much of Burroughs
work is similar to deconstructionism and Wittgenstien.
I don't whetever
he directly influcened by them or by Korbynski(who
himself ripped
off Wittgenstein). I'm going for the latter. WSB was
trying to show
the lanugage controls perception and thinking and/or
cultural values.
It has a touch of mystiscm to it.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:55:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: WSB and The Third Mind
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone know
anything about WSB and Brion Gysin's book The Third
Mind? I know it
talks about the theory of cut-ups.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:01:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB and pedophilia?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Burroughs did
mention having sex with teenage boys(16 year old) in the
Yage Letters. I
think it was in Columbia. It's nothing I would do(to any
man or boy). When
does one become a adult? I not one yet. haha.....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:12:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB and pedophilia?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie-
Thanks. Now, can
we stop talking about this? Please?
On Sat, 31 Jan
1998, Maggie Dharma wrote:
> In a message
dated 31-Jan-98 7:50:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>
bonmark@WEBTV.NET writes:
>
> <<
First off if a teenage boy consented for sex with a older man it is not
> wrong. Homosexual intercourse with teenage
boys was common in Greece >>
>
> Mark,
>
> This is a
difficult topic to make generalizations about, but I think if some
> are going to
be made, they should be made in favor of childhood, however long
> that lasts,
and also in favor of better, more mature judgment on the part of
> adults.
>
> A lot of
teenaged girls are of legal age, sexually speaking, but they are not
> in full
possession of the maturity required to make decisions about sexual
> consent. As
a result, many are exploited and a whole shitload get pregnant.
> Except for
the pregnant part, the identical is true for teenaged boys.
>
> There are
also a lot of reasons why kids might consent to sex or actually be
> groomed for
sex with older people. Many of those reasons are self-destructive,
> or relate to
low self-esteem or a life-pattern of sexual abuse and/or
>
exploitation.
>
> Your average
teenage kid, if sexually active, is looking for a partner who's
> on the same
level. A child who seeks out an adult for sex is probably not
> really seeking
sex, but to fulfill some horrible prophecy about him or herself
> that was
learned in childhood abusive situations. It's just not natural for
> people of
such vast age differences WHERE THE LEVEL OF MATURITY AND POWER is
> so
inequitable for sex to exist. Nor, in my opinion, is it good.
>
> What I'm
saying is that if two people have sex, there should be completely
> equal
awareness of what is happening. Otherwise, it's not truly
"consenting."
> A person who
hasn't even qualified for a driver's license or is not yet
> considered
mature enough to cast a vote should also not be a candidate for sex
> with someone
significantly older. That's predatory.
>
> Lastly,
adults should know better. Even if a child wanted to have sex, or
> appeared to
want to have sex, a mature, rational adult response would be to
> say,
"I'm flattered, but this is the only time you have to be a kid and it
> will never
come again. I'm not going to take that away from you."
>
> It's
something best judged on a case-by-case basis, of course, but Lolita was
> not for
real; just the fantasy of dirty old men. A child is a child, and there
> is no magic
age when that stops and adulthood begins, even though a rip-
> roaring,
hormone-driven sex drive may also exist. It's much more complicated
> than the
argument you've laid out here, I think.
>
> Speaking
from stolen innocence here,
> Maggie
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:16:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: kicks joy darkness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
HolySoulJellyRoll
or whatever its called and theres this big-ass CD
Collection called
The Beat Generation.
On Sat, 31 Jan
1998, Maggie Gerrity wrote:
> I just borrowed a friend's copy of
"Kicks Joy Darkness" and am
> totally
mesmerized by it. I'd never heard any recitations of Kerouac's
> work prior
to this, and suffice to say that my blank canvas has been
> sufficiently
colored by this incredible work.
> The body of artists collected on
"KJD" is so diverse, from the lead
> singer of
Aerosmith (?!--about as non-Beat as I could possibly think
> of) to
perennial Beat-influenced artists like Michael Stipe and Patti
> Smith;
though each selection on the album is so vastly different, all
> of them
embody Kerouac's spontaneity and raw emotion.
> I especially like Stipe's version of
"My Gang," Richard Lewis'
>
"America's New Trinity of Love: Dean, Brando, Presley," and
Ginsberg's
> enthusiastic
full-force recitation of "The Brooklyn Bridge Blues
> (Choruses
1-9).
> For anyone of the list who hasn't heard
"KJD" yet, definitely go out
> and pick up
a copy. It's a great mix of jazz, spoken word, and the
> Beat Spirit.
> Can anyone point me in the direction of
anymore Beat recordings?
> I've heard
of several box sets, including one for Allen Ginsberg, but
> have yet
encountered any in stores. Any help would be appreciated.
> Maggie G.
>
>
>
>
>
> ==
> "In
dreams begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU
YAHOO!?
> Get your
free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:21:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB and pedophilia?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Do not think I am
not creeped by the idea of WSB having sex with teenage
boys. I
am!!! I just want to explore every angle
from a historical and
cultural
viewpoint. I am 18 years old. By law an adult but still a
child.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:56:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB/"highly academic
pseudo-language"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:27 PM
1/31/98 -0600, cathy wrote:
<snip>
>I thought
burroughs voice sounded nice, so i started paying
>more
attention to what people were saying about him on here.
>MOst of the
conversations, especially the wittgenstein-burroughs
>discussion,
was compleeeettly over my head. But the
>recent discussion
has made sense to me.
>
>I'm smarter
than your average bear, that's for sure, but
>i never went
to grad school, and i resent the people
>who act like
they know 'oh-so-much-more' than other
>people, the
prententious people. They unconciously
>exclude
people like me who want to learn, who want
>to know more,
but can't understand their highly academic >pseudo-language.
I can understand
most concepts,
>having it put
in layperson's terms helps me at
>times.
>
>So: i've stated i'm here to learn, i've stated my
>ignorance on
burroughs, i've stated how you have
>to talk to me
in order for me to understand. Anyone
>out there
wanna teach me more about burroughs?????
Ok, I'd like to
say a couple things about the recent
rantings of
people regarding "highly academic pseudo-
language." First of all, this list is supposed to be a
*discussion*
list. That means the "highly
academic
pseudo-language"
(that usually relates directly to one
of the
"beat" authors) is just as acceptable as the
chatline,
non-list related conversations that seem
to dominate most
posts. In regards to your concerns about
not
understanding
these discussions, I never saw one
post from you
asking the authors of those posts for
some kind of
clarification. No, instead we get a
post that
condemns anyone who makes an
"intellectual"
query/hypothesis, and are at fault
for your not
"understanding" the
concepts. The
fact that you are
asking for help and are making
a request that
someone "teach" you more about
Burroughs is
great. It's your choice of approach that
turns me off
(personally), a simple "can someone please
explain this
theory" would suffice, and would be a more
positive/proactive
way to achieve help.
Mike
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Syd
Barrett.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<78676fc9.34d3777d@aol.com>
References:
EFFERVESCING
ELEPHANT (written when Syd was 16)
An Effervescing
Elephant
with tiny eyes
and great big trunk
once whispered to
the tiny ear
the ear of one
inferior
that by next June
he'd die, oh yeah!
because the tiger
would roam.
The little one
said: 'Oh my goodness I must stay at home!
and every time I
hear a growl
I'll know the
tiger's on the prowl
and I'll be
really safe, you know
the elephant he
told me so.'
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 04:58:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maggie Dharma <IDDHI@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB/"highly academic
pseudo-language"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 01-Feb-98 12:57:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cake@IONLINE.NET
writes:
<< That
means the "highly academic
pseudo-language" (that usually relates
directly to one
of the "beat" authors) is just as
acceptable as the
chatline, non-list related conversations that
seem
to dominate most posts. In regards to your concerns about not
understanding these discussions, I never saw
one
post from you asking the authors of those
posts for
some kind of clarification. >>
In my opinion,
the so-called academic posts that offer analyses of, for
instance, the
writing of WSB, are so arcane and (sorry) pompous-sounding that
I can't figure
out what point the writer is trying to make. And I'm not
entirely sure, by
any stretch of the imagination, that what the writer IS
saying, if I
COULD understand it, would be an accurate analytical conclusion.
A friend of mine
wrote a dissertation, which I indexed and edited for him. It
was full of big
words like "epistomology" "dialectic" and oblique
references
to Hegel. I
couldn't understand what point he was trying to make. He said, "It
doesn't matter.
With a dissertation, you get 'paid' by the word."
I've never read a
scholarly piece (or a writ of law) that didn't contain twice
the number of
words needed to make a point, and whose words were even remotely
"user-friendly."
Frankly, it's bad writing--VERY bad writing.
Let me underscore
my point with an excerpt from a spoof of postmodernism (same
source for the
Lord's Prayer I posted earlier):
<begin
excerpt>
Perhaps you would
like to join in conversation with your local mandarins of
cultural theory
and all-purpose deep thinking, but you don't know what to say.
Or, when you do
contribute something you consider relevant, even insightful,
you get ignored
or looked at with pity. Here is a quick guide, then, to
speaking and
writing postmodern.
First, you need
to remember that plainly expressed language is out of the
question. It is
too realist, modernist and obvious. Postmodern language
requires that one
uses play, parody and indeterminacy as critical techniques
to point this
out. Often this is quite a difficult requirement, so obscurity
is a
well-acknowledged substitute. For example, let's imagine you want to say
something like,
"We should listen to the views of people outside of Western
society in order
to learn about the cultural biases that affect us". This is
honest but dull.
Take the word "views". Postmodernspeak would change that to
"voices",
or better, "vocalities", or even better, "multivocalities".
Add an
adjective like
"intertextual", and you're covered. "People outside" is
also
too plain. How
about "postcolonial others"? To speak postmodern properly one
must master a
bevy of biases besides the familiar racism, sexism, ageism, etc.
For example,
phallogocentricism (male-centredness combined with rationalistic
forms of binary
logic). Finally "affect us" sounds like plaid pyjamas. Use
more obscure
verbs and phrases, like "mediate our identities". So, the final
statement should
say, "We should listen to the intertextual, multivocalities
of postcolonial
others outside of Western culture in order to learn about the
phallogocentric
biases that mediate our identities". Now you're talking
postmodern!
<end
excerpt>
The author of
this completely hilarious piece is Richard Holmes. He managed to
express wittily
what I have found annoying about "scholarly analyses,"
including
disciples of Derrida and Wittgenstein. Earlier, I'd tried to slog
through a piece
by Lyotard, and I found myself wondering what the hell he was
talking about.
I know I will be
mightily flamed for this, but I'll go on record right now as
saying I don't
wish to suppress your posts at all. They do, by virtue of the
way they're
written, exclude me from understanding them, but as you say, this
is a discussion
list, and they do get discussed by kindred spirits.
I think what
Cathy said in an earlier post, and what I've said in other posts,
is that we ain't
exactly chimps, but neither of us can understand what you're
saying. I will add
that it feels like you don't really WANT people like me to
understand what
you're saying, or you don't care if your words are only
comprehensible to
a few others. Otherwise, you'd write in simpler terms so the
masses could
understand.
It's just my opinion.
My opinion on this is no more or less valuable than
yours, but I
needed to express it--plainly.
Writing from the
point of view of someone who never went to college, but loves
to read--
maggie
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 05:01:53 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 01
Feb 1998 10:48:23...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:48:23 +0100 with subject "Syd
Barrett."
has been successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (263
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:14:38 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Excerpt from '714'
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Excerpt from
"714", a novel by Jeffrey Scott Holland
Copyright
1997,1998
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
And we're driving
to Renfro Valley in search of truth. Brian is in the
back talking
about necrophilia and Todd is turning up the radio because
Neil Diamond just
came on, "Solitary Man", ain't that it. And I'm poking
more candy into
my face looking for a gas station to yell pull over!
about because I
need some vegetable juice to stave off the demons. I'm
almost out of
Reese's Cups too. I need them cups. "Jeffy needs", I
beseech aloud,
mimicking Lee Marvin in "The Wild One". No one pays
attention. Brian
says necrophilia is the way of the future and I offer
that he's
probably right on and on the cutting edge like Kurtz's snail.
I tell him about
rural cemetaries where they don't dig 'em very deep and
I see his eye
gleam in the rear view mirror reflection, says: "oh yeah?"
I tell him about
Louisiana where they don't even bury 'em cause the
ground's too
swampy and soggy, they put 'em in great vast fucking
concrete
mausoleums. City of the Dead, cool cool joint, mausoleums and
big stone filing
cabinets of corpses everywhere, encrusted with
gargoyles and
gryphons and maybe even the fucking Annunaki, I don't
know, and Marie
Laveau's grave is covered with red X's cause it's a long
standing
tradition to take a piece of the soft red crumbling brick that
litters the paths
and scratch a big X on her grave. For good luck, they
say. I did it in
1984 and almost immediately thereafter I started seeing
the number 714
everywhere. Every store or house number I pass is
suddenly 714. I'm
in the trolley car and 714's whiz by me at every turn,
phone numbers on
signs, license plate numbers, the car stops at a light
and there's a
lamppost right outside, inches away from window, and
someone has
reached out the window at one time and written "714" on it
in pencil. Few
days later I'm in Mississippi and stay in a motel whose
address is 714.
Few more days I'm in Atlanta and my hotel room number is
714, and driving
into town I see a Masonic or Shriners or somesuch
Temple, Lodge
#714. By now I am sweating liquid nitrogen and freaking on
the coincidences,
just like I always tell Junior never to do. Then I
find that the
Diary Of Anne Frank has 714 pages, Joe
Friday's badge
number on
"Dragnet", the serial number of a Quaalude, etc., etc. So it
became my lucky
voodoo number given to me by none other than her Queen
Majesty Marie
Laveau herself, voodoo priestess of New Orleans. I'd
probably win big on
the lottery with it but I don't play the lottery. I
never saw a 714
figure into a horse race but if I did you can be sure
I'd blow the
load. But Manley is still talking about necrophilia and I
egg him on,
encourage him, plant the subtle seeds of hmmmmm in his mind.
Todd stares
silently and resolutely ahead at the road. Some Motown
bullshit comes on
the radio and I pop in one of my homebrew mix tapes,
the sounds of
Barbecue Bob fill the car. Barbecue Bob had a brief
recording career
from 1927-1931, got killed by a voodoo curse, some say.
This voodoo is
all over the place, it's a story old as dirt. There's a
lot of
Appalachian Voodoo going on down here in Renfro Valley, lot of
sightings lately
of occult freaks on parade and I'm all for 'em. "I want
to join these
Appalachian Voodoo cats, they're alright", I opine.
"Yeah,
what's up with that", Brian rhetorically mumbles from the back.
"I think
it'd be the life, being in with the Appalachian Voodoo crowd,
running around
naked in the woods and all that."
"I don't
think they run around naked. Do they run around naked?"
"Hell, you
know, if they don't, they oughta", Todd interjects. "Voodoo,
Appalachian,
Cult, shit, you're supposed to run around naked and stuff,
right?"
"I run
around naked all the time", I said, "I guess I must got religion.
Pull over at this
gas station up here."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:25:53 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Lord's Prayer & Quasi-intellectual
doubletalk (was :Re:
Wittgenstein)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie Dharma
wrote:
>
> I've really
been trying to follow all the postmodern analyses of WSB and
> others
posted by scholars on this list.
=== what does
"postmodern" really mean, anyway? I didn't even know there
*was* any
postmodern discussion of WSB going on. If simply using
ten-dollar words
is "postmodern", that means Spiro Agnew must be the
king of
Postmodernism. And yet he's dumber than dog dirt.
> And while I
do not wish to piss anyone
> off, I'm
sure I will by posting this postmodern version of The Lord's Prayer,
> which, while
not strictly coded, is certainly an exercise in language.
=== Problem is,
it's cute but this isn't a version of the Lord's Prayer
at all. It
doesn't say, and doesn't mean, the same thing. "Hegemony" is
*not* a synonym
for "kingdom", and "Empower us this day with the means
of material
production" does *not* mean the same thing as "Give us this
day our daily
bread". Not even close. There is a way, of course, to
render the Lord's
Prayer in needlessly complex words, but this ain't it.
The point is, I
haven't read (or written) any serious literary analysis
on this list yet
that sets my Bullshit Detector alarm off. Close, mighty
close, but not
quite yet. I do think some of these matters are so simple
and
matter-of-fact that they don't need to be analyzed in the first
place, but I
don't think the manner in which the analyzing has been done
is very
blowhardy.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - - KY
"playin' the
blues for pennies sure looks better now."
- - Joe Strummer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:40:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB/"highly academic
pseudo-language"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/1/98 1:59:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, IDDHI@AOL.COM
writes:
> In my
opinion, the so-called academic posts that offer analyses of, for
> instance, the writing of WSB, are so arcane
and (sorry) pompous-sounding
> that
> I can't figure out what point the writer is
trying to make. And I'm not
> entirely sure, by any stretch of the
imagination, that what the writer IS
> saying, if I COULD understand it, would be an
accurate analytical
conclusion.
>
>
> A friend of mine wrote a dissertation, which
I indexed and edited for him.
> It
> was full of big words like
"epistomology" "dialectic" and oblique
references
> to Hegel. I couldn't understand what point he
was trying to make. He said,
"
> It
> doesn't matter. With a dissertation, you get
'paid' by the word."
>
> I've never read a scholarly piece (or a writ
of law) that didn't contain
> twice
> the number of words needed to make a point,
and whose words were even
> remotely
> "user-friendly." Frankly, it's bad
writing--VERY bad writing.
>
> Let me underscore my point with an excerpt
from a spoof of postmodernism (
> same
> source for the Lord's Prayer I posted
earlier):
> <begin excerpt>
> Perhaps you would like to join in
conversation with your local mandarins of
> cultural theory and all-purpose deep
thinking, but you don't know what to
> say.
> Or, when you do contribute something you
consider relevant, even
insightful,
> you get ignored or looked at with pity. Here
is a quick guide, then, to
> speaking and writing postmodern.
>
> First, you need to remember that plainly
expressed language is out of the
> question. It is too realist, modernist and
obvious. Postmodern language
> requires that one uses play, parody and
indeterminacy as critical
techniques
> to point this out. Often this is quite a
difficult requirement, so
obscurity
> is a well-acknowledged substitute. For
example, let's imagine you want to
> say
> something like, "We should listen to the
views of people outside of Western
> society in order to learn about the cultural
biases that affect us". This
is
> honest but dull. Take the word
"views". Postmodernspeak would change that
to
> "voices", or better,
"vocalities", or even better, "multivocalities". Add
an
> adjective like "intertextual", and
you're covered. "People outside" is also
> too plain. How about "postcolonial
others"? To speak postmodern properly
one
> must master a bevy of biases besides the
familiar racism, sexism, ageism,
> etc.
>
> For example, phallogocentricism (male-centredness
combined with
>
rationalistic
> forms of binary logic). Finally "affect
us" sounds like plaid pyjamas. Use
> more obscure verbs and phrases, like
"mediate our identities". So, the
final
> statement should say, "We should listen
to the intertextual,
multivocalities
> of postcolonial others outside of Western
culture in order to learn about
> the
> phallogocentric biases that mediate our
identities". Now you're talking
> postmodern!
> <end excerpt>
>
> The author of this completely hilarious piece
is Richard Holmes. He managed
> to
> express wittily what I have found annoying
about "scholarly analyses,"
> including disciples of Derrida and
Wittgenstein. Earlier, I'd tried to slog
> through a piece by Lyotard, and I found
myself wondering what the hell he
> was
> talking about.
>
> I know I will be mightily flamed for this,
but I'll go on record right now
> as
> saying I don't wish to suppress your posts at
all. They do, by virtue of
the
> way they're written, exclude me from
understanding them, but as you say,
> this
> is a discussion list, and they do get
discussed by kindred spirits.
>
> I think what Cathy said in an earlier post,
and what I've said in other
> posts,
> is that we ain't exactly chimps, but neither
of us can understand what you'
> re
> saying. I will add that it feels like you
don't really WANT people like me
> to
> understand what you're saying, or you don't
care if your words are only
> comprehensible to a few others. Otherwise,
you'd write in simpler terms so
> the
> masses could understand.
>
> It's just my opinion. My opinion on this is
no more or less valuable than
> yours, but I needed to express it--plainly.
>
> Writing from the point of view of someone who
never went to college, but
> loves
> to read--
> maggie
>
>
Great post,
Maggie! I've been so exercised about
Mark Ricard's idiocy (until
I found out he
was an 18 year old kid) that I didn't say anything about this
except a back
channel which I will forward to you.
Did you notice
that he started calling me Denny?
Weirded me out pretty
good...He started
that right after I mailed you a brief note about it.
"Paranoia
strikes deep, into your life it will creep."
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:02:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB/"highly academic
pseudo-language"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At last, I've
done the thing I deplore in others...didn't check the address
box on my last
post...which was intended for back channel to Maggie Dharma.
Mea culpa.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:20:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adam Johansen
<adamjohansen@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: kicks joy darkness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Message text
written by "Maggue G." forwarded by "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List"
>I just
borrowed a friend's copy of "Kicks Joy Darkness" and am
totally
mesmerized by it. I'd never heard any recitations of Kerouac's
work prior to
this, and suffice to say that my blank canvas has been
sufficiently
colored by this incredible work.
The body of artists collected on
"KJD" is so diverse, from the lead
singer of
Aerosmith (?!--about as non-Beat as I could possibly think
of) to perennial
Beat-influenced artists like Michael Stipe and Patti
Smith; though
each selection on the album is so vastly different, all
of them embody
Kerouac's spontaneity and raw emotion.
I especially like Stipe's version of "My
Gang," Richard Lewis'
"America's
New Trinity of Love: Dean, Brando, Presley," and Ginsberg's
enthusiastic
full-force recitation of "The Brooklyn Bridge Blues
(Choruses 1-9).
For anyone of the list who hasn't heard
"KJD" yet, definitely go out
and pick up a
copy. It's a great mix of jazz, spoken word, and the
Beat Spirit.
Can anyone point me in the direction of
anymore Beat recordings?
I've heard of
several box sets, including one for Allen Ginsberg, but
have yet
encountered any in stores. Any help would be appreciated.
Maggie G.
<
I've been trying
to "pick up a copy@ for a while now... but nowhere has
it in stock. Can
you give me a publisher and catalogue number or something?
Sorry I can't
help with your enquiry.
Adam J.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:19:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sundee Bumgarner
<Surubu1@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kicks joy darkness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
There is a mail
order catalog--the name escapes me now--which specializes in
Beat literature
and other misc. goods. They carry a lot
of hard to find
items, including
spoken word and musical CDs. Try calling
1 800 Kerouac; they
should have some
things you can't find in stores.
Sundee Bumgarner
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:48:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "POMES, PENNY EACH."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sanders Inquiry
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think sanders
and Kerouac first met when he went with Ted Berrigan to Jack's
house to do the
Paris Review interview.
Dave B.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:03:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lord's Prayer &
Quasi-intellectual doubletalk (was :Re:
Wittgenstein)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"Amen"
to that, Jeffrey!
Sara Feustle
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Cronopio, cronopio?
On Sun, 1 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> Maggie
Dharma wrote:
> >
> > I've
really been trying to follow all the postmodern analyses of WSB and
> > others
posted by scholars on this list.
>
> === what
does "postmodern" really mean, anyway? I didn't even know there
> *was* any
postmodern discussion of WSB going on. If simply using
> ten-dollar
words is "postmodern", that means Spiro Agnew must be the
> king of
Postmodernism. And yet he's dumber than dog dirt.
>
>
>
> > And
while I do not wish to piss anyone
> > off,
I'm sure I will by posting this postmodern version of The Lord's
Prayer,
> > which,
while not strictly coded, is certainly an exercise in language.
>
> === Problem
is, it's cute but this isn't a version of the Lord's Prayer
> at all. It
doesn't say, and doesn't mean, the same thing. "Hegemony" is
> *not* a
synonym for "kingdom", and "Empower us this day with the means
> of material
production" does *not* mean the same thing as "Give us this
> day our
daily bread". Not even close. There is a way, of course, to
> render the
Lord's Prayer in needlessly complex words, but this ain't it.
>
> The point
is, I haven't read (or written) any serious literary analysis
> on this list
yet that sets my Bullshit Detector alarm off. Close, mighty
> close, but
not quite yet. I do think some of these matters are so simple
> and
matter-of-fact that they don't need to be analyzed in the first
> place, but I
don't think the manner in which the analyzing has been done
> is very
blowhardy.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland - - KY
>
"playin' the blues for pennies sure looks better now."
> - - Joe
Strummer
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:39:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Exciting News
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dharma Lion is a
first rate biography--particularly good on Ginsberg's early ye
ars.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:40:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB/"highly academic
pseudo-language"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Such scholarly
posts as those on WSB are really what Beat-l needs more
of. There's been entirely too much useless chit
chat as of late. Let's
keep such
scholarly discussions going.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:53:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Andrea Moore <BMXDREA@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sanders, Holmes and Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
You are right to
question my connection here. I'm not positive that its
accurate and I
don't have a citation/ source for you. I can't find my notes
from the
beginning of the last year, but I remember reading some letters where
Ed was mentioned.
I think it was him because Kerouac said, "Say hello to Ed
and Miriam,"
and Miriam is Ed's wife. Where did I
read this stuff? Well,
these books
werent' very useful to me, they were old and like I said, Ed was
mentioned so
briefly that I didn't even catalog it in my data files. (That's a
research lesson
in itself.) I'm sorry that I can't provide you with the actual
book. All that i
can remember is that the book was one probably written by the
Knight's--
perhaps one of the twenty-something year old books on the beats and
their legacy. I'm
pretty sure the letters were written between holmes and
Kerouac because I
wrote down that I have to check out Holmes back ground
more-- Check his
bio's for references to Ed and stuff.
I appreciate
everyone's discussion on this subject very much. I'm going to try
and find that WF
Buckley show, I don't know how to look for this kind of
thing, but i
appreciate these tidbits. That show will really help me,
especially if it
is as interesting at someone made it out to be. I know
Sanders can look
and sound like a dork sometimes (we all can) and I'd love to
see this caught
on camera!!!
Thanks for the
address etc. I didn't have his phone number!!! yikes, I doubt
I'll have the
guts to call him ever, but I do plan on writing him a long
letter and
sending him the second rough draft of my bio/crit.
Drea
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
ContentFrom
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Mon Feb 2
15:40:21 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:00:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Ed Sanders
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Just for the
record, it's Ed Sanders not Ed Saunders.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:07:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: aol.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
AOL.COM users
seem to experiencing some technical difficulties this afternoon.
If you get knocked off beat-l, please
re-subscribe.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
zman1956@postoffice.bellatlantic.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:10:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Zarra <zman1956@BELLATLANTIC.NET>
Subject: Re: kicks joy darkness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie,
Are there any CD
shops on-line that carrie KJD, I would be very interested in
getting this
collection.
Thanks a whole
lot!
Johnny Z
>> I just borrowed a friend's copy of
"Kicks Joy Darkness" and am
>> totally
mesmerized by it. I'd never heard any recitations of Kerouac's
>> work
prior to this, and suffice to say that my blank canvas has been
>>
sufficiently colored by this incredible work.
>> The body of artists collected on
"KJD" is so diverse, from the lead
>> singer
of Aerosmith (?!--about as non-Beat as I could possibly think
>> of) to
perennial Beat-influenced artists like Michael Stipe and Patti
>> Smith;
though each selection on the album is so vastly different, all
>> of them
embody Kerouac's spontaneity and raw emotion.
>> I especially like Stipe's version of
"My Gang," Richard Lewis'
>>
"America's New Trinity of Love: Dean, Brando, Presley," and
Ginsberg's
>>
enthusiastic full-force recitation of "The Brooklyn Bridge Blues
>>
(Choruses 1-9).
>> For anyone of the list who hasn't heard
"KJD" yet, definitely go out
>> and pick
up a copy. It's a great mix of jazz, spoken word, and the
>> Beat
Spirit.
>> Can anyone point me in the direction of
anymore Beat recordings?
>> I've
heard of several box sets, including one for Allen Ginsberg, but
>> have yet
encountered any in stores. Any help would be appreciated.
>> Maggie G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==
>> "In
dreams begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
>>
>>
_________________________________________________________
>> DO YOU
YAHOO!?
>> Get your
free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
>The Absence
of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>Sure-JK
>
<html>
<font
face="Lucian BT" size=3>John J Zarra Jr</font></html>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:12:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Thomas Wolfe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey all
Just thought i would throw in my two
cents here- Thomas Wolfe was an
amazing author!
And also a key influence on the young JK. But... I dont think
any American
author of his time quite captures the romance of early 20th
Century America
as Wolfe did. He was an enormous man with an enourmous
appetite for living
and life and writing- much as JK was. And like JK- he had
discipline
problems- with his life and his works. So sad- but genius aint
easy- not that i
would know personally! Bummer- but maybe in the next life.
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:42:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: kicks joy darkness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I got my copy of
KJD at Borders or Barnes and Noble,one of those chains.
On Sun, 1 Feb
1998, Aeronwy Thomas wrote:
> i bought
kicks joy darkness in sept 97 i think. i think the most thrilling
> part was
hearing jack's voice for the first time. (that was before i
> discovered a
great website with clips of him speaking). i do think that if you
> don't have
it yet, you should get it. the silly pomes (recited by julianna
> hatfield)
are so funny and nice. as for where to get it, i got it through BMG
> music
service when i was still a member. if you try to get it through a store,
> it might
help to know that it's made by Rykodisc. sorry can't offer more help!
>
> aeronwy
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:52:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maggie Gerrity
<u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: kicks joy darkness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I know that CDNOW sells it on-line, but I'm
not sure about any others.
Maggie
---John Zarra
<zman1956@BELLATLANTIC.NET> wrote:
>
> Maggie,
>
> Are there
any CD shops on-line that carrie KJD, I would be very
interested in
> getting this
collection.
>
> Thanks a
whole lot!
> Johnny Z
>
>
>
>> I just borrowed a friend's
copy of "Kicks Joy Darkness" and am
> >>
totally mesmerized by it. I'd never heard any recitations of
Kerouac's
> >>
work prior to this, and suffice to say that my blank canvas has
been
> >> sufficiently
colored by this incredible work.
>
>> The body of artists collected
on "KJD" is so diverse, from the
lead
> >>
singer of Aerosmith (?!--about as non-Beat as I could possibly
think
> >> of)
to perennial Beat-influenced artists like Michael Stipe and
Patti
> >>
Smith; though each selection on the album is so vastly different,
all
> >> of
them embody Kerouac's spontaneity and raw emotion.
>
>> I especially like Stipe's
version of "My Gang," Richard Lewis'
> >>
"America's New Trinity of Love: Dean, Brando, Presley," and
Ginsberg's
> >>
enthusiastic full-force recitation of "The Brooklyn Bridge Blues
> >>
(Choruses 1-9).
>
>> For anyone of the list who
hasn't heard "KJD" yet, definitely
go out
> >> and
pick up a copy. It's a great mix of jazz, spoken word, and the
> >>
Beat Spirit.
>
>> Can anyone point me in the
direction of anymore Beat recordings?
> >>
I've heard of several box sets, including one for Allen Ginsberg,
but
> >>
have yet encountered any in stores. Any help would be appreciated.
>
>> Maggie G.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ==
> >>
"In dreams begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
> >>
> >>
_________________________________________________________
> >> DO
YOU YAHOO!?
> >> Get
your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >
> >The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In
Heaven For
> >Sure-JK
> >
> <html>
> <font
face="Lucian BT" size=3>John J Zarra Jr</font></html>
>
==
"In dreams
begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:21:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Whose bio of JK
is better, Charter or Nicosia? Ive heard negative things
about Nicosia but
nothing about Charters. This is rhetorical, I know,
but..anyone care
to venture an opinion? Thanks.
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:26:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: kicks joy darkness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those
interested in obtaining this, try:
info@rykodisc.com
or visit their
website at:
www.rykodisc.com
Maybe Jeffrey at
Water Row may be able to help:
Waterrow@aol.com
or, last but not
least:
Barbara Longo,
who was the Production Coordinator
for this project,
and at one time was a list member -
Barbara?
Hope this is a
help?
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:30:58 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: some WSB observations
Comments: To:
jholland@ICLUB.ORG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeff:
thank you so much
for the counterpoint, i'd never really thought of
Kerouac's
thinking being a little far-out at times...
I have a whole
queue of books lined up to read after i finish "memory
babe" which
i am almost done with. next in line is
ann rice (as a favor
for a friend)
then comes Vanity of Dulouz. I also have
Douglas
Coupland's
Shampoo Planet to throw in there somewhere, in the meantime
will purchase
probably the WSB Letters book, and get it in line. I
think that book
will probably slide me into his realm a little easier
than trying to
delve right into Naked Lunch.
cathy
>
> Subject:
> Cathy: some WSB observations
> Date:
> Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:27:53 +0100
> From:
> Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
>
>
> Cathy Wilkie
wrote:
>
> > he was
a
> >
freaky-type dude, who thought way-out thoughts.
>
> === it's all
relative, though....back in the day, Kerouac was considered
> a
freaky-type dude who thought way-out thoughts, such as:
>
> " Las
mujeres blancas son la mierda" [white women are shit] I shudder to
> hear it,
whole hordes of Mongolians shall overrun the western world
> saying that
and they're only talking about the poor little blonde woman
> in the
drugstore who's doing her best - By God, if I were Sultan! I
> wouldn't
allow it! I'd arrange for something better! But it's only a
> dream! Why
fret? The world wouldn't exist if it didn't have the power to
> liberate
itself. Suck! Suck! suck at the teat of Heaven! Dog is God
> spelled
backwards." (from "Desolation Angels")
>
> WSB is far
freakier and way-out, of course, but perhaps that's his
> position -
the next zen koan in line to untangle after conquering
> Kerouac.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm
smarter than your average bear, that's for sure, but i never went to
> > grad
school, and i resent the people who act like they know
> >
'oh-so-much-more' than other people, the prententious people.
>
> === I'm
pretty pretentious myself, but it keeps me warm in the winter
> months. But
I agree, I can't stand literary snobs either, especially in
> a field that
was supposed to be confrontational with things literary and
> snobby. I
never went to college, period. (Well, Art school for a week
> but I
dropped out, then enrolled at Eastern Kentucky University and
> dropped out
the first day).
>
>
>
>
> >
So: i've stated i'm here to learn, i've
stated my ignorance on
> >
burroughs, i've stated how you have to talk to me in order for me to
> >
understand. Anyone out there wanna teach
me more about burroughs?????
>
> === I think
everyone should read his biography by Ted Morgan, "Literary
> Outlaw",
before reading a word of his own works. If you're already big
> on Kerouac
and Ginsberg, reading "The Letters
of William S.Burroughs,
>
1945-1959" is a good way to slip into the groove - most of the letters
> are to
Ginsberg and many are to Kerouac....."The Yage Letters" also
> includes
some of these letters, with Ginsberg's replies and some
> drawings by
Ginsberg.....
>
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland, Kentucky
> "here
we come, all drunk a-gaaaaain..."
> - - Memphis
Jug Band, 1930
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:33:52 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: kerouac and saunders
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> Subject:
> Re: Sanders Inquiry
> Date:
> Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:14:45 +0000
> From:
> Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
>
>
> Andrea Moore
wrote:
> >
> >
Gallaher wrote:
> >
> >
"Ed Saunders would be a perfect example of
> > the
sort of usurption of Beat that Kerouac didn't like."
> >
-----------------------
> > can you
elaborate on that? ...<snip>...
> > Drea
>
>
> i dunno that
i agree.. ginsberg was friendly with saunders, who taught
> early on at
naropa. keouac was a little negative
about the next
> generation,
but he thought it was cool when elvis appeared on ed
> sullivan for
the first time, and later said dylan was ok, so i don't
> know that
he'd have disliked ed. i understand the
statement in the
> sense that
saunders could've represented the 'younger generation' which
> always has
it easier than the pioneers of the previous generation, and
> is never
quite as bright or authentic, and i guess kerouac wasn't too
> impressed
with the prankster scene, either, but i think one on one,
> kerouac
would've respected saunders' talent and brains....ah...did they
> ever meet?
weren't they on a
talk-show or debate panel on television together? I
think Kerouac was
drunk as a skunk during this appearance.
Anyone?
cathy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:04:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nicosia's is the
best by far. Charters has much less info
and a lot of it
seems like it was
gleaned from his novels and applied to his life.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:10:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: A Rose for Cathy
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/1/98 12:50:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, Dennis writes:
> << I'm
a junior high English teacher and the way some of these ivy covered
> academicians
spew verbiage offends me. We are not
dolts...we understand
>
English...why can't they write it? They
are communicating in the rarefied
> ether of an
ivory tower far above us mortals. And I
resent the hell out of
> them. They are playing their game by their
rules...I just wish they would
do
> it
privately. >>
>
This was back channel,
now it's a post...where's my asbestos union suit?
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:13:03 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reply to message
from kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU of Sun, 01 Feb
>
>Nicosia's is
the best by far. Charters has much less
info and a lot of it
>seems like it
was gleaned from his novels and applied to his life.
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
>
>
***I apologize in
advance. Most people would probably say
that this is not
a Beat related
topic & therefore doesn't belong here, but I'm posting it
anyway***
I just finished
reading "Hemingway in Love and War," which deals with his
romance with
Agnes von Kurowsky back in WWI. A big
complaint by the writer
of that book goes
along the same lines of what you mentioned up above with
the Charters
biography--the biographers took incidents from Hemingway's
fiction &
applied it a fact. And we kind of had
this conversation before
in a round-about
way, how do we classify Jack's works, fiction or
non-fiction? Since he does use so many incidents from his
life in his
work...but then
again, I think most writers do. But that
doesn't
necessarily make
it a reliable source of facts.
Diane.
--
"This is
Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack Kerouac
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
edesaute@pobox3.bbn.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:52:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Edward Desautels
<edesaute@BBNPLANET.COM>
Subject: Forgive me, for I have sinned against
Marie,
Pope of the Beat listserv
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 03:11 PM
1/31/98 +0000, you wrote:
>mr desautels,
>it is
coming to my awareness that you may have
come to the wrong list.
Has it yet
arrived?
i believe
>the monty
python list would be more appropriate a venue for your one liners:
I think I'm
already there, only it's "The Inquisition." Who's _your_ Pope?
Oh, and I have
some two-liners.
i
>would
recommend either the arguement clinic, or, perhaps more aptly, the
verbal
>abuse
department.
Glass houses can
crash so delightfully, don't you think?
Ed
>sincerely,
>mc
>
>Edward
Desautels wrote:
>
>> Opinions
are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> At 11:58
PM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >What
is this, freshman writing workshop!? Whats wrong with opinions?
>>
>conceptualizing, my ass.
>> >
>> >On
Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Edward Desautels wrote:
>> >
>> >>
Apologies to anyone I've offended. I simply meant to imply that I see
>> little
value in posting a piece in a forum such as this without
>>
conceptualizing it in a way that promotes some sort of worthwhile
>>
discussion. To simply state that one likes (or dislikes) a given piece
>> doesn't
go very far toward generating ideas, perceptions, exchange. Take to
>> the next
step, whether it be a personal insight or reflection on some
>> aspect
of the piece or something more lit crit/theoretical. How has the
>> piece
influenced, say, your conception of a poetics. Something.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
As for tone, well, I yam what I yam. Besides, I'd just spent four hours
>> handing
out flowers in the airport and had a headache like you read
about. :]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
Regards,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
Ed
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
At 07:37 AM 1/30/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>ed: that's a bit harsh, don't you thinnk? lots of us on this list serv
>> but as
of yet, you seeem to be the only one with total reading of totality
>> of beat
lit. and
>> >>
>> >>
>speak for yourself, please. who is the "we" of you speak?
>> >>
>> >>
>i myself was delighted to read the pome for the first time, and i've
>> beeen
reading ginsberg for years.
>> >>
>> >>
>mc
>> >>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>> >>
>Edward Desautels wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>> >>
>> Yes. We've read it. This is a Beat listserv.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> Ed
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> At 07:27 PM 1/29/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Here's a great poem from Ginsberg's early career (early 1949)
that
>> >>
>> >>
>> >I thought was well worth sharing.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Complaint of the Skeleton to Time
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take my love, it is not true,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >So let it tempt no body new;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take my lady, she will sigh
>> >>
>> >>
>> >For my bed where'er I lie;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take them, said the skeleton,
>> >>
>> >>
>> > But leave my bones alone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take my raiment, now grown cold,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >To give to some poor poet old;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take the skin that hoods this truth
>> >>
>> >>
>> >If his age would wear my youth;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take them, said the skeleton,
>> >>
>> >>
>> > But leave my bones alone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take the thoughts that like the wind
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Blow my body out of mind;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take this heart to go with that
>> >>
>> >>
>> >And pass it on from rat to rat;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take them, said the skeleton,
>> >>
>> >>
>> > But leave my bones alone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take the art which I bemoan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >In a poem's crazy tone;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Grind me down, though I may groan,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >To the starkest stick and stone;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Take them, said the skeleton,
>> >>
>> >>
>> > But leave my bones alone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Early on, it was obvious that Allen Ginsberg had one of the
greatest
>> >>
>> >>
>> >minds of his generation. His presence is sorely missed in our
>> >>
>> >>
>> >counterculture.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Maggie G.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >"In dreams begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >_________________________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >DO YOU YAHOO!?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÒ*
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÚ0
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÚ0
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÚ0
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÚ0
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÚp
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÚ¥
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÛ
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôÛ
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ôx8
>> >>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>> >>
<center>************************************************************
>> >>
>> >>
<bigger>Edward Desautels
>> >>
>> >>
7 Hamilton Road
>> >>
>> >>
Somerville, MA 02144
>> >>
>> >>
edesaute@bbnplanet.com
>> >>
>> >>
http://www.shore.net/~debra/ed/homepage.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
"One day I found my shirt lying across my knees,
>> >>
>> >>
I called it Beauty. Since thenI've been a painter of shirts."
>> >>
>> >>
Jacques Rigaut
>> >>
>> >>
>>
</bigger>************************************************************</center>
>> >>
>> >
>> >The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
>>
>Sure-JK
>> >
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:53:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i have read a lot
of the work that ann charters has done on jack and it seems
fine to me. an
especially good place for beginners to start, i think, because
it's
well-researched and easy to read, even though there are a few points i
think i disagreed
with.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:37:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB/"highly academic
pseudo-language"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie Dharma
wrote:
>
> In my
opinion, the so-called academic posts that offer analyses of, for
> instance,
the writing of WSB, are so arcane and (sorry) pompous-sounding that
> I can't
figure out what point the writer is trying to make. And I'm not
> entirely
sure, by any stretch of the imagination, that what the writer IS
> saying, if I
COULD understand it, would be an accurate analytical conclusion.
>
> I think what
Cathy said in an earlier post, and what I've said in other posts,
> is that we
ain't exactly chimps, but neither of us can understand what you're
> saying. I
will add that it feels like you don't really WANT people like me to
> understand
what you're saying, or you don't care if your words are only
> comprehensible
to a few others. Otherwise, you'd write in simpler terms so the
> masses could
understand.
>
>
> Writing from
the point of view of someone who never went to college, but loves
> to read--
> maggie
1. i completely
agree with you.
2. what the
author was trying to say may not even be clear to the author
himself. i always
thought that the beauty of literature was the fact
that everyone can
give it one'e own meaning and interpretation.
3. i rarely read
philosophy for the reason you mentioned: i have the
feeling that they
don't want me to understand what they are saying. i
may not be the
smartest person alive, but i don't like it when somebody
assumes my
igorance i.e. his/ger superiority.
4. the people who
write in such academic language are sometimes hiding
the fact that
they have nothing to say.
5. i did go to
college. i learned a lot more on my own. as a matter of
fact, as i work
at the university and watch the students at the exams
daily, their
fright, worries, the desire to do well, i am constantly
wondering if it
is worth it; what is it that we've forgotten that is
making us so
frustrated? which brings me to the next point:
6. it seems to me
that the people on the list are becoming nervous and
intolerant. it
shouldn't be so...
my humble
opinion...
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:38:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: some WSB observations
Comments: To:
Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@comic.net>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I LOVE Shampoo
PLanet!
On Sun, 1 Feb
1998, Cathy Wilkie wrote:
> Jeff:
>
> thank you so
much for the counterpoint, i'd never really thought of
> Kerouac's
thinking being a little far-out at times...
>
> I have a
whole queue of books lined up to read after i finish "memory
> babe"
which i am almost done with. next in
line is ann rice (as a favor
> for a
friend) then comes Vanity of Dulouz. I
also have Douglas
> Coupland's
Shampoo Planet to throw in there somewhere, in the meantime
> will
purchase probably the WSB Letters book, and get it in line. I
> think that
book will probably slide me into his realm a little easier
> than trying
to delve right into Naked Lunch.
>
>
> cathy
>
>
> >
> >
Subject:
> > Cathy: some WSB observations
> > Date:
> > Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:27:53 +0100
> > From:
> > Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
> >
> >
> > Cathy
Wilkie wrote:
> >
> > > he
was a
> > >
freaky-type dude, who thought way-out thoughts.
> >
> > ===
it's all relative, though....back in the day, Kerouac was considered
> > a
freaky-type dude who thought way-out thoughts, such as:
> >
> > "
Las mujeres blancas son la mierda" [white women are shit] I shudder to
> > hear
it, whole hordes of Mongolians shall overrun the western world
> > saying
that and they're only talking about the poor little blonde woman
> > in the
drugstore who's doing her best - By God, if I were Sultan! I
> >
wouldn't allow it! I'd arrange for something better! But it's only a
> > dream!
Why fret? The world wouldn't exist if it didn't have the power to
> >
liberate itself. Suck! Suck! suck at the teat of Heaven! Dog is God
> > spelled
backwards." (from "Desolation Angels")
> >
> > WSB is
far freakier and way-out, of course, but perhaps that's his
> >
position - the next zen koan in line to untangle after conquering
> >
Kerouac.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
I'm smarter than your average bear, that's for sure, but i never went to
> > >
grad school, and i resent the people who act like they know
> > >
'oh-so-much-more' than other people, the prententious people.
> >
> > === I'm
pretty pretentious myself, but it keeps me warm in the winter
> > months.
But I agree, I can't stand literary snobs either, especially in
> > a field
that was supposed to be confrontational with things literary and
> > snobby.
I never went to college, period. (Well, Art school for a week
> > but I
dropped out, then enrolled at Eastern Kentucky University and
> > dropped
out the first day).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
So: i've stated i'm here to learn, i've
stated my ignorance on
> > >
burroughs, i've stated how you have to talk to me in order for me to
> > >
understand. Anyone out there wanna teach
me more about burroughs?????
> >
> > === I
think everyone should read his biography by Ted Morgan, "Literary
> >
Outlaw", before reading a word of his own works. If you're already big
> > on
Kerouac and Ginsberg, reading "The
Letters of William S.Burroughs,
> >
1945-1959" is a good way to slip into the groove - most of the letters
> > are to
Ginsberg and many are to Kerouac....."The Yage Letters" also
> >
includes some of these letters, with Ginsberg's replies and some
> >
drawings by Ginsberg.....
> >
> >
> >
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > Jeffrey
Scott Holland, Kentucky
> >
"here we come, all drunk a-gaaaaain..."
> > - -
Memphis Jug Band, 1930
> >
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:41:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Its funny that
you should say that because I heard that Charter's bio info
came from the
source itself whereas Nicosia worked from library materials
becuse he had no
access to JK's papers.
On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Alex Howard
wrote:
> Nicosia's is
the best by far. Charters has much less
info and a lot of it
> seems like
it was gleaned from his novels and applied to his life.
>
>
------------------
> Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
P.O. Box 12149
>
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586
Boone, NC 28608
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:23:31 -0500
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: Charters vs Nicosia/Georgian Blue Poetry
Society
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey Folks,
Not to contribute
to anymore of the CRAP that's been on the list lately
(mmmm....
pedophilia.... interesting, but somehow not after the 56th
post), however,
did any of the vetrans here urinate on themselves when
they read the
original Charters/Nicosia message?
Sorry, I found
the innocence hystarical.
ANYWAY, do any of
you know anything about the Georgian Blue Poetry
Society? Some guy emailed me about publishing a poem
for a $12 fee and
I'd like to know
if it's remotely legit before I shell over laundry/beer
money to him.
Thanks,
Chris
"All day
long, wearing a hat, that wasn't on my head!"
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:30:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Ron Carter/non-beat content
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For you jazz fans
in NY, I was just perusing the
Sunday Times and
noticed that Ron Carter
will be playing
at the Merkin Concert Hall
on Monday the
8th. As well as the following dates:
02/10-15/98 New
York, NY - Village Vanguard
02/17-22/98 New
York, NY - Iridium Jazz Club
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:22:38 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
if memory serves
me well, i believe charters did not have access to much info in
the time span in
which she wrote the bio. i do believe that memory babe is a
much
better work. but
i also think of charters as the first to attempt a bio with as
much info as she
could glean.
this may be a
somewhat slanted viewpoint, as i studied with charters and found
her to be warm
and passionate about kerouac the man and kerouac the writer.
mc
Aeronwy Thomas
wrote:
> i have read
a lot of the work that ann charters has done on jack and it seems
> fine to me.
an especially good place for beginners to start, i think, because
> it's
well-researched and easy to read, even though there are a few points i
> think i
disagreed with.
>
> aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:58:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reading _Visions
of Gerard_ I have to wonder if the story told here isn't
really the key to
the sense of despair that inevitably topples Kerouac's
joy of life
described in all of his other books. It
seems that at four
years old, the
question was asked, that was continually asked throughout
Kerouac's adult
life: What is the meaning of life in the face of one's
own
mortality? It also seems to me that his
parents' reactions to
Gerard's death,
more or less set the course for his thinking for the rest
of his life.
There seems to be
three key realizations in Visions of Gerard:
1. "And
there's no doubt in my heart that my mother loves Gerard more
than she loves
me."
No matter what
Jack does for the rest of his life he is competing with
the memory of
Gerard as a symbol of true goodness, and no matter how hard
he tries his
mother will always love Gerard more than him.
2. From Gerard's
own manner of accepting death, Jack senses Gerard is not
afraid of death
and that death is good.
"I don't
remember how Gerard died, but (in my memory, which is limited
and mundane) here
I am running pellmell out of the house about 4 o'clock
in the afternoon
and down the sidewalks of Beaulieu Street yelling to my
father whom I've
seen coming around the corner woeful and slow with
strawhat back and
coat over arms in the summer heat, gleefully yelling
'Gerard est
mort!" (Gerard is dead!) as tho it were some great event that
would make a
change that would make everything better, which it actually
was, which
granted it actually was."
After watching
his parent's reaction to death, there is a sudden and
great change in
his thinking:
"Truth that
cracks open in my head like an oyster, and I see it, the
house disappears
in her Swarm of Snow, Gerard is dead and the soul is
dead and the
world is dead and dead is dead."
3. Kerouac's idealism is linked to his vision of
Gerard, his sense of
self-worth is
linked to Gerard, his writing is linked to Gerard.
"An old
dream too I've had of me glooping, that night, in the parlor, by
Gerard's
coffin. I dont see him in the coffin but
he's there, his ghost,
brown ghost, and
I'm grown sick in my papers (my writing papers, my
bloody 'literary
career' ladies and gentlemen) and the whole reason I
why ever wrote at
all and drew breath to bite in vain with pen of ink,
great gad with
indefensible Usable pencil, because of Gerard, the
idealism, Gerard
the religious hero--'Write in honor of his death'..."
In writing in
honor of Gerard's death, however, Kerouac continually is
brought to the
point where he is posing the question asked in this book:
"Why should
such hearts be made to wince and cringe and groan out life's
breath?--why does
God kill us?" Both Christianity and
Buddhism offer
paths through
these questions, but Kerouac chose this answer:
"We all die?
We're all piles of you-know-what? Liars? Poor? Invalids?
Well then! I
drink! Open the door, belly, gimme another chance. He gets
his other chance,
dances jigs till ten, and sleeps at noon. What he does
at 4 o'clock in
the afternoon is in its poor selfsame essence no
different than
what the mournful ladies with their beads and moving-lips,
in the shadows of
the church, are doing--For, the truth that is
realizable in
dead men's bones ought to be a good enough truth for
everybody,
laughers, cryers, cynics, and hopers included, all--The truth
that is
realizable in dead men's bones, all great gloomy unwilling life
aside, and
setting aside my knighthood to thus say so, exhilirates yea
exterminates all
symbols and bosses and crosses and leaves that quiet
blank--For my
part, the news about truth came of the silence of my
predecessor
diers' graves.
Sicken if you will, this gloomy book's foretold."
Truth is
realizable in dead men's bones is an awesome statement. It also
cuts off the
possibility of truth in living, of finding one's own way
through
suffering, of finding meaning in life regardless of what one
believes happens
at death.
This got too long
and I should have divided it into more than
one post. But I'm hoping some others of you will have
some thoughts
about the ideas
put forth in _Visions of Gerard_ and will break this down
into further
areas of discussion.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:06:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia/Georgian Blue
Poetry Society
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Chris Dumond
wrote:
> did any of the vetrans here urinate on
themselves when
> they read
the original Charters/Nicosia message?
> Sorry, I
found the innocence hystarical.
=== I don't get
it. Where is the humor? Is this a list only for people
like you and your
"vetrans" (sic) who find innocence "hystarical"
(sic)? I pity your children, if you have any.
I find YOUR
innocence hysterical, since I already went through the stage
where one enjoys
feeling superior to others because one knows more about
Beat than
others..... when I was 15.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
K e n t u c k y
livin' on
cinnamon rolls
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:27:24 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: highly academic pseudo-language
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Cathy Wilkie
wrote:
> I don't think the people that speak the
> "highly
academic pseudo-language" REALIZE they are UNINTENTIONALLY
> BLOCKING
people like me from UNDERSTANDING their concepts. I think they
> talk that
way and think everyone else can automatically understand it.
=== Yes and
no...In most of these instances that I've read, just in this
first week since
I've joined the list, most of this stuff just cannot be
put in simpler
terms....there is no simpler way to say
"self-referential",
"epistemology", "metaphysical", blah blah
blah....even
though some of the stuff that comes across this list may
look like
needlessly verbose horseshit, it isn't. The ideas behind some
of it may be pure
crap, but there's nothing wrong with the way they're
expressing it. No
one can be expected to provide a complete glossary of
terms in each and
every post; but there's nothing stopping anyone from
diving in asking
questions.
However, I *AM*
on your side, because it seems to me that very few here
are actually
trying to communicate with others; their postings are
almost like
they're posting an essay on a bulletin board and walking
away. If there's
something you don't understand, don't be afraid to
stand up and ask,
ask a hundred questions, that's what these lists are
supposed to be
for, they're discussion groups. There will inevitably be
assholes who will
make groaning holier-than-thou comments with an air of
superiority, but
just ignore them. The ones who think they know the most
about Beat only
know trivia, not the heart and soul of the matter.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland,
Kentucky
looking for my
bottle of cholula
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:54:07 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia/Georgian Blue
Poetry Society
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Chris Dumond
wrote:
> Sorry if you
took offense at that, it was written light-heartedly with a
> touch of
sarcasm.
=== Like Nancy
and others, I missed the light-heartedness, though the
sarcasm was
evident.
> The list has
a strong tendancy to get VERY heated
> over the
Charters/Nicosia issue because a lot of people on the list have
> serious
interests in the issues Nicosia brings up.
As was pointed out,
> Charters has
extensive access to the Kerouac Archives and Nicosia is
> trying to
uncover what some call unethical and illegal practices by the
> Sampas
family (they are the ones who have the rights and possesion of
> Jack's
stuff).
=== I didn't know
this and many others don't. I wish you'd mentioned
this in your
original post; many of us have joined this list only
recently and are
unaware of what has transpired before us.
> Gerry Nicosia is even on the Beat-L.
=== SPROING!!!
Really?? Hello Gerry!
> In short, I
wasn't slamming you or saying that you were ignorant
=== Looking back
at your post, though, surely you can see how it
couldn't be
interpreted any other way to those who didn't know what you
were alluding
to...(which I was ignorant of too); hence I jumped in.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
jeffrey scott
holland
going to richmond
now
to hit the used
bookstores
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:17:17 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Forgive me, for I have sinned against
Marie,
Pope of the Beat listserv
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
forgive ME, bill,
but i couldn't help taking the bait. this is the last of my
public posts to
this insanity.
to mr desautels:
i don't know what
to thank you for, sir:
for the cyber sex change operation or if not
that, your radical feminism in
envisioning a
female
pope, and
therefore my promotion'
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:55:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia/Georgian Blue
Poetry Society
Comments: To:
Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Umm..speaking as
the person who wrote the original post, what exactly was
so hysterical
about it? Not everyone on this list knows everything about
everything and I
havent been around as long as the rest of y'all. I'm 18.
Just exactly how
much do you expect me to know about everything concerning
the beats? You're
not making the list very conducive to learning. And if
you are urinating
on yourself, perhaps its time to grab the Depends the
next time you go
to the market.
~Nancy
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Chris Dumond wrote:
> Hey Folks,
>
> Not to
contribute to anymore of the CRAP that's been on the list lately
> (mmmm....
pedophilia.... interesting, but somehow not after the 56th
> post),
however, did any of the vetrans here urinate on themselves when
> they read
the original Charters/Nicosia message?
> Sorry, I
found the innocence hystarical.
> ANYWAY, do
any of you know anything about the Georgian Blue Poetry
>
Society? Some guy emailed me about
publishing a poem for a $12 fee and
> I'd like to
know if it's remotely legit before I shell over laundry/beer
> money to
him.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> "All
day long, wearing a hat, that wasn't on my head!"
> ~Jack
Kerouac
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:10:53 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Diane,
Thank you for
your post regarding VISIONS OF GERARD.
It's true that,
ultimately, any understanding of The Duluoz Legend must
begin and end
with the Ghost of Gerard, which is more significant for
interpreting
Kerouac than any notions of modernism, post-war American
fiction,
bohemianism, BEATitude, first-thought-best-thought,
speed-typing or
whatever. Kerouac's life and work must be viewed through
the lens of his
early loss of his older brother.
Some of the
things I ponder through this lens are the following:
- Jack's
relationship with Memere
- Jack's
relationship with Sammy Sampas
- Jack's
relationship with Neal Cassady
- Jack's Buddhism
- Jack's
Catholicism
- Jack's alcoholism
- Jack's sadness
- Jack's
conception of angels
- Jack's
conception of writing as prayer
- Jack's
obsession with death (_I wrote it 'cause we're all gonna die_)
- Jack's death
regards,
John Hasbrouck
...accept loss forever... -JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:36:02 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: highly academic pseudo-language
Comments: cc:
cake@IONLINE.NET
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Mike and all:
Okay, once again
I state: I don't think the people that
speak the
"highly
academic pseudo-language" REALIZE they are UNINTENTIONALLY
BLOCKING people
like me from UNDERSTANDING their concepts.
I think they
talk that way and
think everyone else can automatically understand it.
I apologize for
not having asked for clarification before on some of
these
conversations i was referring to, but perhaps that is because in
the past whenever
i was in a situation like this and i did ask for
clarification i
GOT FLAMED for being so stupid, or even some pretentious
comment like
"What about it DON"T you understand?" said in a very snotty
tone of
voice. I didn't realize that you had to
have a certain IQ
quotient to hang
out on the Beat LIst. I thought I was
doing just fine
on here. I"m here to learn from you people. If you deny me that
opportunity just
because i may not understand every word you say, then
you, my friends,
are the shallow ones. Very unbeat. I do appreciate
the "highly
academic psuedo-language" discussions.
I really do. I wish
that i could talk
like that. I shouldn't fear baring my
ignorance to
you people. I should be able to ask for
clarification. YOu're right.
I should be doing
that. I want you to understand that i am
NOT
criticizing the
intellectual elite, it's just that i want them to
understand the
concept that not everyone sees the world in big words
like they do.
And I quote:
"All the way
from Amarillo to Childress, Dean and I pounded plot after
plot of books
we'd read into Stan, who asked for it because he wanted to
know."
--Jack Kerouac
"ON the
road"
point. counterpoint.
Besides that, my
post that you were responding to was a response to
someone else on
why I found WSB 'Scary" and unapproachable. I wansn't
just pulling
these statements out of thin air, suddenly deciding to go
on a rampage on
those who talked intelligently.
thank you for
your time,
cathy
>
>
> Subject:
> Re: the scary WSB/"highly
academic pseudo-language"
> Date:
> Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:56:39 -0500
> From:
> "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
>
>
> At 04:27 PM
1/31/98 -0600, cathy wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >I
thought burroughs voice sounded nice, so i started paying
> >more
attention to what people were saying about him on here.
> >MOst of
the conversations, especially the wittgenstein-burroughs
> >discussion,
was compleeeettly over my head. But the
> >recent
discussion has made sense to me.
> >
> >I'm
smarter than your average bear, that's for sure, but
> >i never
went to grad school, and i resent the people
> >who act
like they know 'oh-so-much-more' than other
> >people,
the prententious people. They
unconciously
> >exclude
people like me who want to learn, who want
> >to know
more, but can't understand their highly academic >pseudo-language.
> I can
understand most concepts,
> >having it
put in layperson's terms helps me at
> >times.
> >
> >So: i've stated i'm here to learn, i've stated my
>
>ignorance on burroughs, i've stated how you have
> >to talk
to me in order for me to understand.
Anyone
> >out
there wanna teach me more about burroughs?????
>
> Ok, I'd like
to say a couple things about the recent
> rantings of
people regarding "highly academic pseudo-
>
language." First of all, this list
is supposed to be a
> *discussion*
list. That means the "highly
academic
> pseudo-language"
(that usually relates directly to one
> of the
"beat" authors) is just as acceptable as the
> chatline,
non-list related conversations that seem
> to dominate
most posts. In regards to your concerns
about not
>
understanding these discussions, I never saw one
> post from
you asking the authors of those posts for
> some kind of
clarification. No, instead we get a
> post that
condemns anyone who makes an
>
"intellectual" query/hypothesis, and are at fault
> for your not
"understanding" the
concepts. The
> fact that
you are asking for help and are making
> a request
that someone "teach" you more about
> Burroughs is
great. It's your choice of approach that
> turns me off
(personally), a simple "can someone please
> explain this
theory" would suffice, and would be a more
>
positive/proactive way to achieve help.
>
> Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:53:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Its funny
that you should say that because I heard that Charter's bio info
> came from
the source itself whereas Nicosia worked from library materials
> becuse he
had no access to JK's papers.
I can't remember
if his denied access was by estate or by choice. For
some reason I
seem to remember him saying something about wanting to
create the
archive by interviewing the people who actually knew Kerouac.
He spent, what --
12/15 years writing the book? Charters'
is good for
beginners as
Memory Babe is _quite_ a hefty tome. If
you want deep,
complete
biography (as complete as they come, I mean), MB is the one.
There are no
particulay bad bios out. Some are better
than others for
different
reasons. Angel-Headed Hipster and Jack's
Book are quite good
and should be
read by anyone wanting a complete picture of the man, but
they are far from
being as detailed as MB. Depends on what
you want in a
bio and what you
have time to read.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:26:57 -0500
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia/Georgian Blue
Poetry Society
Comments: To:
Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey Nancy,
Sorry if you took
offense at that, it was written light-heartedly with a
touch of
sarcasm. The list has a strong tendancy
to get VERY heated
over the
Charters/Nicosia issue because a lot of people on the list have
serious interests
in the issues Nicosia brings up. As was
pointed out,
Charters has
extensive access to the Kerouac Archives and Nicosia is
trying to uncover
what some call unethical and illegal practices by the
Sampas family
(they are the ones who have the rights and possesion of
Jack's
stuff). Gerry Nicosia is even on the
Beat-L. I can't begin to
explain to you
just how upset people are getting over the issue. I
believe there are
cases currently pending in three different courts.
It's my bet
though, that you'll be getting plenty of information from
sources who are
much better informed as well as involved, than I --
which I suggest
if you're interested.
In short, I
wasn't slamming you or saying that you were ignorant, just
that I found the
irony to be funny given the responses your question
eventually leads
to. Personally, I like Nicosia's better
because it
gave me a better
feel for Jack as a person rather than Jack as he was
seen in the beat
generation.
I wasn't
attacking what you wrote, so next time, if you have that much
of a problem with
it, please backchannel me so that I can clarify things
before you post
to the list -- that way I don't feel like I have to
polute this list
any more with personal nonsense.
Chris
PS I'll make sure to grab a pack on my way home
today.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:33:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: highly academic pseudo-language
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Once again,
Beat-l is first and foremost an academic discussion list.
Academic
language, then, is appropriate for discussion.
It's true that
some branches of
contemporary literary criticism have developed their
own jargon and
that those wishing to partake of discussions in these
sub-disciplines
will have to learn the language. Those
not wishing to
do so are free to
delete such messages from Beat-l. In
other words,
just ignore
them. No one on the list, I hope, will
try to reduce his
or her ideas or
simplify his or her vocabulary to cater to some kind of
intellectual
lowest common denominator. That's not
what this list -- or
education in
general-- is all about.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
prinzhal@popd.ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:36:07 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<prinzhal@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 19:53 2/1/98
EST, you wrote:
>i have read a
lot of the work that ann charters has done on jack and it seems
>fine to me.
an especially good place for beginners to start, i think, because
>it's
well-researched and easy to read, even though there are a few points i
>think i
disagreed with.
>
Personally, I
don't feel any obligation to "choose" (read: take sides)
between
them. I also think Dennis McNally's
Desolate Angel is underappreciated.
OTOH, it might be
well to remember that whoever does a thing first not only
volunteers to
take the most flak, but also grades the road for others.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:08:58 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Cyan,
Welcome to the
list.
Your idea of
comparing Ginsberg's _America_ to Lincoln's _Gettysburg
Address_ is
marvelous and inspired. I'm not kidding.
When I was 18 I
saw Ginsberg read _America_ and was quite startled. I
thought, jeez!
who IS this guy? I decided to find out. I'd already read
ON THE ROAD but
hadn't yet made the connection. That was 16 years ago.
An excellent
essay you'll want to consult on the _Gettysburg Address_ is
called _Lincoln's
Declaration_, written by Mortimer J. Adler, in his
book, HAVES
WITHOUT HAVE-NOTS.
Keep the list
informed.
-John Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:53:09 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 02
Feb 1998 19:44:22...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Mon, 02 Feb 1998 19:44:22 +0100 with subject "sliced#1"
has been successfully
distributed to the BEAT-L list (261 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:55:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 02:58 AM
2/2/98 -0800, Diane Carter wrote:
<snip>
>This got too
long and I should have divided it into
>more than one
post. But I'm hoping some others
>of you will
have some thoughts about the ideas put
>forth in
_Visions of Gerard_ and will break this down
>into further
areas of discussion.
Diane,
If I remember
correctly there is a letter from JK to
Neal Cassady in
_Selected Letters_ that goes into
detail of the
significance of Gerard's death to Jack.
I don't have my
copy on hand so I can't give you a
date or pg
number. I suggest you check this out.
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:04:22 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Cheyanne C Ritz
wrote:
> I'm even
thinking about comparing it ("America") somehow to Abe Lincoln's
> Gettysburg
Address. Any comments??
=== Fantastic
idea!! I wish Ginsberg were alive to hear about this, he'd
have loved it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Ky.
dangling in the
tournefortia
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:38:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: reply-to
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Folks--
I think I may
have solved a problem some of you have been having with
replies to your
postings going to you rather than to the list. If you're
using an offline
mail program (Netscape, Eudora, Pegasus, etc.) and
you've set in
your preferences Your Own E-mail Address as an explicit
reply-to address,
your postings to beat-l will have your address as the
reply-to address,
rather than the list's address. To fix this, just
remove your
e-mail address from the reply-to section of your program's
preferences and
the problem should be solved. My two test postings
of a few minutes
ago demonstrated this using Netscape 4.04's mail
program. Let me
know if there are any further problems.
Fred
for beat-l
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:49:54 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Perhaps you
should read both and decide for yourself.
I'm a friend of
Gerry's. I believe his book on JK is superior to Charter's.
Although he
didn't have access to the JK material that John Sampas
believes, and the
law concurs, belongs to him, Nicosia's perssoanal
conversations
with close friends of JK's was a very impotant part of his
work.
Regardless of the
"who's best" I would never offer Charters anything other
than praise for
her Kerouac books, although I think she stood still for
more censorship
by Sampas than she should have.
We're fortunate
to have both.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
DFrom
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Wed Feb 4
08:19:54 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:13:49 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
>
> Its funny
that you should say that because I heard that Charter's bio info
> came from
the source itself whereas Nicosia worked from library materials
> becuse he
had no access to JK's papers.
charters met
kerouac, didn't she? Nicosia's archive
is extensive, as
are his footnotes
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:22:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz
<CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi, this is my
first post. Just a few comments on this
list - This is the
first one I've
ever been on, and it's great. I always
have mail. And yes, I
think I'm
learning things. I'm 18 and only
recently started reading beat
writers. I saw the movie of Naked Lunch and thought it
neat, but that's as
far as it
went. Now I am devouring the Beat Reader
(not a comment on the
recent arguement
between Charters and
Nicosia) and I
heard of this listserv.
Sorry to bore you
with all that, just thought I should explain any naivete in
my following
posts.
To get to the
point, I am now planning out a research paper on Allen Ginsberg,
specifically the
poem "America". I've found
Dick McBride's Cometh With Clouds
to be a very
interesting source, and of course Dharma Lion.
I'm even thinking
about comparing it ("America") somehow to Abe Lincoln's
Gettysburg
Address. Any comments?? I'd really be interested on any comments
on this
poem. Heck, get a whole discussion
going.
Thanks,
><CYAN><
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:22:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: cfasull1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU
Subject: "howl" request
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i was wondering
if anyone out there had in their possession a copy of the
phonograph
recording of "howl and other poems", put out by fantasy-galaxy
records in
1959. i was looking to secure myself an
original copy, and if
nothing else,
maybe i could send a blank tape out for it to be recorded.
any help should
be directed to CFASULL1@IC3.ITHACA.EDU thanks
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:26:01 -0800
Reply-To: fdbbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Test please ignore
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Testing. Please
ignore.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:26:38 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Testing 2
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sorry, one more
test.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:00:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those of you
who live in the NYC area, Anthology Film Archives will be
screening a film
called "Scenes from Allen's Last Three Days On Earth as a
Spirit". If
you want further info, I can type out the blurb in a later
post.
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
eam23@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:15:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: beth
<elizabeth.ann.mekker@DREXEL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy, further
info would be splendid! beth...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:23:31 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maggie Gerrity
<u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Beats and the Lost Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm preparing to start research for a paper
I'm going to write
comparing the
Beats to the Lost Generation of the 1920's and 30's.
I've seen a lot
of similarities between the two groups: substance
abuse,
disillusionment with America, expatriatism (both literal and
figurative).
I plan to center my argument around a
comparison of _On The Road_ to
Hemingway's _The
Sun Also Rises_ and "Howl" to T.S. Eliot's "The
Wasteland."
Just curious to hear if anyone else has seen
any similarites between
these two
literary groups, probably the two greatest in the history of
American Lit.
Thanks,
maggie g.
==
"In dreams
begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:02:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The following was
taken from the Anthology Film Archives program...
Jonas Mekas:
Scenes from Allen's LAst Three Days on Earth as a Spirit
(April 5-7,1997)
67 min
"This is a
video record of the Buddhist Wake Ceremony at Allen Ginsber's
apartment. You
see Allen, now asleep forever, in his bed;some of his close
friends;and the
wrapping up and removal of Allen's body
from his
apartment. You
hear Jonas' description of his last conversation with
Allen, three days
earlier. You see the final farewell at the Buddhist
Temple, 118 West
22nd St, NYC, and some of his close friends: Peter
Orlovsky, Patti
Smith, Gregory Corso, LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka. Hiro
Yamagata, Anne
Waldman and many others.
The screening
times are:
Sat, Feb 7, 8pm
Sun, Feb 8, 6 pm
Sat, Feb 21, 8pm
The Archives are
located at 32 Second Ave, NY NY, between 2nd and 3rd
streets, I
believe.
The Absence of Sound,
Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:02:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy:
It is to some
degree a matter of taste, but I don't think that there really
is grounds for
comparison of the two. They fill two
different roles. If you
want to know
about JKerouac in detail, clearly you should be read Memory
Babe. If you are interested in a superficial
treatment of JK, then Charters
is the book for
you. I think most people on this list
would state that
Memory Babe is
the best biography of Jack Kerouac. What
has been said on
this list has
nothing to do with the quality of Nicosia's work. Gerry says
that when someone
can have access to his work, plus Jack's pocket notebooks,
then a better
book than Memory Babe will be written.
Of course, that will
depend on whether
or not such a writer is granted free editorial content as
well.
The best way to
find out, is to read them both. I liked
both of them, but
for entirely
different reasons. And, I read Charters
first.
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
> Whose bio of
JK is better, Charter or Nicosia? Ive heard negative things
> about
Nicosia but nothing about Charters. This is rhetorical, I know,
> but..anyone
care to venture an opinion? Thanks.
>
> The Absence
of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
> Sure-JK
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:25:20 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re:
Charters vs Nicosiau
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
> It is to
some degree a matter of taste, but I don't think that there really
> is grounds
for comparison of the two. They fill two
different roles. If you
> want to know
about JKerouac in detail, clearly you should be read Memory
> Babe. If you are interested in a superficial
treatment of JK, then Charters
> is the book
for you. I think most people on this
list would state that
> Memory Babe
is the best biography of Jack Kerouac.
What has been said on
No offense Bentz
but I don't think this is necessarily true.
I liked
both books but
I'd have to say Charters achieved the same thing with
half as many
words. I found her biography
("Kerouac") incredibly
powerful, and
wouldn't have changed a thing. Bigger
isn't always
better. And brevity is the soul of wit, and all that.
I will concede,
though, that Nicosia's book is the one the serious
Kerouac scholar
will rely on. But that doesn't make it
less
"superficial"
-- anyway I don't think either book was in any
way
superficial. Superficial people don't
tend to become obsessed
with Kerouac --
that's the way I see it.
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:36:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Wait until you
read Ellis Amburn's bio...
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:02:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Arthur Maynard
wrote:
>
> At 19:53
2/1/98 EST, you wrote:
> >i have
read a lot of the work that ann charters has done on jack and it seems
> >fine to
me. an especially good place for beginners to start, i think,
because
> >it's
well-researched and easy to read, even though there are a few points i
> >think i
disagreed with.
> >
> Personally,
I don't feel any obligation to "choose" (read: take sides)
> between
them. I also think Dennis McNally's
Desolate Angel is
underappreciated.
>
> OTOH, it
might be well to remember that whoever does a thing first not only
> volunteers
to take the most flak, but also grades the road for others.
While watching
professional wrestling this evening i decided it was an
appropriate time
to jump into this thread, for it seems almost as if the
listmembership is
interested in something of a "let's get ready to
rumble"
conflict over who is better. Or perhaps
another Ali-Frazier
rematch in post
prime.
I must agree that
the saner voice is presented by John Arthur Maynard in
this post.
It seems to me
that anyone who undertakes a biography of any sort of
Jack Kerouac is
either a fool or deserves a commendation just for the
effort. It is a huge task to undertake the writing of
biographical work
-- knowing that
SOMEONE will discount you if a single detail is in error
-- for any
subject.
The biographical
subject of Jack Kerouac is uniquely difficult, though,
because of two
factors: first, Kerouac was an Excellent writer. If
one is writing a
biography of Michael Jordan the subject's expertise is
not in the medium
the biographer is using. But Kerouac is
even a
difficult subject
among biographies of writers because of the nature of
his writing
subject matter. In his many forms, most
of Kerouac's
writings are in a
fairly clear way autobiographical fiction.
This means
that the
biographer is in competition with the subject right from the
start.
As for the
difference between Charters and Nicosia and McNally and the
others, it seems
that all are useful to the serious fan of Kerouac (i've
not yet read all
of them so hence don't yet qualify as serious).
From
the segmenets
i've read of each it seems that they are all better than
the other for
specific target audiences. It seems
McNally's to be the
best for an
introductory socio-cultural view of Kerouac for the less
than heavy
scholar. Nicosia is the best for the
scholar - hands down.
And Charters
(whose biography should probably be considered as
supplemented by
the selected letters i would think) is a less academic
and more intimate
style. Depending upon the audience or
the mood of the
individual
reader, it seems that one or another biography is best.
Errors in one are
corrected in others and vice versa. It
is probably
the case that the
best biography of any individual is a synthesis of all
the biographies.
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:04:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosiau
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Levi Asher wrote:
>
> R. Bentz
Kirby wrote:
> > It is
to some degree a matter of taste, but I don't think that there really
> > is
grounds for comparison of the two. They
fill two different roles. If
you
> > want to
know about JKerouac in detail, clearly you should be read Memory
> >
Babe. If you are interested in a
superficial treatment of JK, then Charters
> > is the
book for you. I think most people on
this list would state that
> > Memory
Babe is the best biography of Jack Kerouac.
What has been said on
>
> No offense
Bentz but I don't think this is necessarily true. I liked
> both books
but I'd have to say Charters achieved the same thing with
> half as many
words. I found her biography
("Kerouac") incredibly
> powerful,
and wouldn't have changed a thing. Bigger
isn't always
> better. And brevity is the soul of wit, and all that.
>
> I will
concede, though, that Nicosia's book is the one the serious
> Kerouac
scholar will rely on. But that doesn't
make it less
>
"superficial" -- anyway I don't think either book was in any
> way
superficial. Superficial people don't
tend to become obsessed
> with Kerouac
-- that's the way I see it.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> | Levi Asher
= brooklyn@netcom.com |
> |
|
> | Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
> | (the beat literature web site) |
> |
|
> | "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
> | (a real book, like on paper) |
> | also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
> |
|
> | *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
> |
|
> |
"Nothing is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
> | -- Joni
Mitchell |
>
---------------------------------------------------------
intimate seems a
more accurate term than superficial i would think with
regards to the
different styles. i'm all for verbosity
since i suffer
that illness
though too. perhaps which biography
depends on which
personality I or
another reader are wearing (like switching hats) at any
time.
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:44:25 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i would say that
it is not charters vs nicosia, but charters, then nicosia.
charters
bushwhacked the first biography, with many roadblocks, nicosia is more
in depth it's,
true, but i wouldn't call it superficial per se.
mc
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
> Nancy:
>
> It is to
some degree a matter of taste, but I don't think that there really
> is grounds
for comparison of the two. They fill two
different roles. If you
> want to know
about JKerouac in detail, clearly you should be read Memory
> Babe. If you are interested in a superficial
treatment of JK, then Charters
> is the book
for you. I think most people on this
list would state that
> Memory Babe
is the best biography of Jack Kerouac.
What has been said on
> this list
has nothing to do with the quality of Nicosia's work. Gerry says
> that when
someone can have access to his work, plus Jack's pocket notebooks,
> then a
better book than Memory Babe will be written.
Of course, that will
> depend on
whether or not such a writer is granted free editorial content as
> well.
>
> The best way
to find out, is to read them both. I
liked both of them, but
> for entirely
different reasons. And, I read Charters
first.
>
> Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
> > Whose
bio of JK is better, Charter or Nicosia? Ive heard negative things
> > about
Nicosia but nothing about Charters. This is rhetorical, I know,
> >
but..anyone care to venture an opinion? Thanks.
> >
> > The
Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
> > Sure-JK
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:20:52 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
diane: i too need
to reread before contributing. i'm just hoping oour little
po dunk library
here in montpelier has a copy as i has no cash.
mc
Diane Carter
wrote:
> Reading
_Visions of Gerard_ I have to wonder if the story told here isn't
> really the
key to the sense of despair that inevitably topples Kerouac's
> joy of life
described in all of his other books. It
seems that at four
> years old,
the question was asked, that was continually asked throughout
> Kerouac's
adult life: What is the meaning of life in the face of one's
> own
mortality? It also seems to me that his
parents' reactions to
> Gerard's
death, more or less set the course for his thinking for the rest
> of his life.
>
> There seems
to be three key realizations in Visions of Gerard:
>
> 1. "And
there's no doubt in my heart that my mother loves Gerard more
> than she
loves me."
>
> No matter
what Jack does for the rest of his life he is competing with
> the memory
of Gerard as a symbol of true goodness, and no matter how hard
> he tries his
mother will always love Gerard more than him.
>
> 2. From
Gerard's own manner of accepting death, Jack senses Gerard is not
> afraid of
death and that death is good.
>
> "I
don't remember how Gerard died, but (in my memory, which is limited
> and mundane)
here I am running pellmell out of the house about 4 o'clock
> in the
afternoon and down the sidewalks of Beaulieu Street yelling to my
> father whom
I've seen coming around the corner woeful and slow with
> strawhat
back and coat over arms in the summer heat, gleefully yelling
> 'Gerard est
mort!" (Gerard is dead!) as tho it were some great event that
> would make a
change that would make everything better, which it actually
> was, which
granted it actually was."
>
> After
watching his parent's reaction to death, there is a sudden and
> great change
in his thinking:
>
> "Truth
that cracks open in my head like an oyster, and I see it, the
> house
disappears in her Swarm of Snow, Gerard is dead and the soul is
> dead and the
world is dead and dead is dead."
>
> 3. Kerouac's idealism is linked to his vision of
Gerard, his sense of
> self-worth
is linked to Gerard, his writing is linked to Gerard.
>
> "An old
dream too I've had of me glooping, that night, in the parlor, by
> Gerard's
coffin. I dont see him in the coffin but
he's there, his ghost,
> brown ghost,
and I'm grown sick in my papers (my writing papers, my
> bloody
'literary career' ladies and gentlemen) and the whole reason I
> why ever
wrote at all and drew breath to bite in vain with pen of ink,
> great gad
with indefensible Usable pencil, because of Gerard, the
> idealism,
Gerard the religious hero--'Write in honor of his death'..."
>
> In writing
in honor of Gerard's death, however, Kerouac continually is
> brought to
the point where he is posing the question asked in this book:
> "Why
should such hearts be made to wince and cringe and groan out life's
> breath?--why
does God kill us?" Both
Christianity and Buddhism offer
> paths
through these questions, but Kerouac chose this answer:
>
> "We all
die? We're all piles of you-know-what? Liars? Poor? Invalids?
> Well then! I
drink! Open the door, belly, gimme another chance. He gets
> his other
chance, dances jigs till ten, and sleeps at noon. What he does
> at 4 o'clock
in the afternoon is in its poor selfsame essence no
> different
than what the mournful ladies with their beads and moving-lips,
> in the
shadows of the church, are doing--For, the truth that is
> realizable
in dead men's bones ought to be a good enough truth for
> everybody,
laughers, cryers, cynics, and hopers included, all--The truth
> that is
realizable in dead men's bones, all great gloomy unwilling life
> aside, and
setting aside my knighthood to thus say so, exhilirates yea
> exterminates
all symbols and bosses and crosses and leaves that quiet
> blank--For
my part, the news about truth came of the silence of my
> predecessor
diers' graves.
> Sicken if you will, this gloomy book's
foretold."
>
> Truth is
realizable in dead men's bones is an awesome statement. It also
> cuts off the
possibility of truth in living, of finding one's own way
> through
suffering, of finding meaning in life regardless of what one
> believes
happens at death.
>
> This got too
long and I should have divided it into more than
> one
post. But I'm hoping some others of you
will have some thoughts
> about the
ideas put forth in _Visions of Gerard_ and will break this down
> into further
areas of discussion.
> DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Juno-Line-Breaks:
8-9,15-19
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:21:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane, beautiful
analysis of "Gerard." One passage I noted with special
interest was when
Gerard and Ti Jean were playing with the kitten. To
Gerard, the way
we treat others, especially those at our mercy, determine
whether we are
deserving of Heaven. This seems to be a theme throughout
the Duluoz
legend, but is sidetracked by the introduction of Cody
(Cassady), who
only to lives for himself. It would seem that the two
approaches to
life are at odds, and the older Kerouac tried to restore
his earlier beliefs
while down playing the self-indulgences of his adult
years.
Seems like I saw
somewhere (Levi's Literary Kicks?) that the death of
Tyke in "Big
Sur" was a metaphor for the earlier death of Gerard. Then
there is the
poor, flea-bitten kitten of Tristessa. Kerouac's kittens
evoke
perseverance in the face of "all life is suffering," and the meek
and beatific,
while perhaps not inheriting the earth, surely will inhabit
Heaven.
Best to all,
Jim
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to
buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely
free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at
(800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:26:25 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: sorry all
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
adrien, could you
email me privately? i lost yr address in the latest
crash and burn of
hard drive.
thanks
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:27:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jaroslav Gagan
<GAGAN@DINF.FSV.CVUT.CZ>
Organization:
Stavebni fakulta CVUT, Praha
Subject: Prague Beat Generation Fest 1998
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear BEAT-L Colleagues,
this year we
celebrating the BEAT GENERATION as the focal theme
of the 7th
International Book Fair, Prague, Czech Republic
(April, 19-24,
1998).
Programme:
On the (Beat)
Road - exhibition about Czech and American beat generation
incl. secret documentary
why was Allen Ginsberg
expelleed from
Czechoslovakia, 1965.
Nonstop
Ferlinghetti - three days and nights reading poetry
in Church St.Salvator,
Prague.
13th Prague Jazz
Days - contemporary jazz with plays "Unfair
Arguments With
Existence" by L. Ferlighetti
(European premiere)
7th International
Book Fair - incl. exhibit-stand City Lights Bookstore
(replica - 1956)
Seminar about
Beat Generation
Honoured guest: Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
-------------------------------------
The Prague Beat
Generation Fest is for the first time in Czech Republic
and Eastern
Europe. We should like ask all beat friends for assistance
with books,
magazines, photos, films, memories, posters, etc. which can
be exhibit. We
should like invite publishers to Prague and we will give
them 20%
reduction from price. Publishers which print only 1,2,3,...
beat books can
send it us for special exhibit place.
The organizer is
nonprofit, nonpolitical and cultural organization which
was founded in
1971. Many members were arrested by last communism regime
for their
independent cultural activity and many world artists sent protest
to last
Czechoslovak president (for ex. L.Ferlinghetti, E.Albee, K.Vonegut,
J.Updike,
M.Albright, A.Ginsberg, T.Stoppard, A.Miller, J.Morrison,
S.Sontag,
W.Styron, E.L.Doctorow, P.McCartney, Sting, P.Townshend, L.Weber,
J.Baez,
E.Ionesco, W.Marsalis, Y.Menuhin, I.Murdoch, ...)
Karel S r p
Please
write: ARTFORUM - Jazzova sekce
Valdstejnska 14
118 00 Praha 1
Czech Republic (Europe)
or fax: ++420-2-535174
or e-mail: gagan@fsv.cvut.cz
Have a nice day.
JaG
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Ing.Jaroslav
GAGAN Stavebni fakulta CVUT - Katedra
inzenyrske informatiky
166 29 Praha 6, Thakurova 7 tel: ++420-2-24354536
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Bye, Blues Brothers &
Blues Sisters.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:50:17 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I thought Tom
Clark's Kerouac bio packed a punch, but maybe that's
because I read it
in a day.
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:56:17 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: highly academic pseudo-language
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
>
> sometimes it
seems that the distinction drawn that these folks thoughts
> cannot be
translated into everyday presentations of living is precisely
> the reason
that WSB's suggestion that the intellectual is a deviant.
>
> DR
Where does
Burroughs suggest this?
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:57:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosiau
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
levi...great
thought..."superficial people don't tend to become obsessed with
Kerouac..." i think that statement says it all. i'm going to say that exact
quote the next
time someone asks me "what's so great about jack kerouac?"
it's almost as
good as "if you can't hear it...you'll never understand it."
JCH
and i'm not even
going to comment on the Charters vs Nicosia "thing"...
i respect both of
them way to much for that. and love both
of the books.
john j dorfner
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:06:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Cheyanne C Ritz
wrote:
> Any comments?? I'd really be interested on any comments
> on this
poem. Heck, get a whole discussion
going.
> Thanks,
>
><CYAN><
welcome to Chaos.
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
hlinh@pop.student.uib.no
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:17:41 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nils-Xivind Haagensen
<hlinh@POP.STUDENT.UIB.NO>
Subject: to diane carter
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi diane,
could you do me a
big favour and mail your "visions of gerard" letter of
february 2nd (or
3rd?) to my adress: nils-oivind.haagensen@lili.uib.no
thank you!
i'd love to
discuss the book with you but want to read it again first, such
a long time since
i read it,
thanks again
nils
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-MD5:
6qCyw9YdCekj7WXRcolwrg==
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:30:23 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao
<nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Re: unsuccesful cut-ups (Maggie).
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
There is no need
to use a "cut-up machine". All you need is text and a pair of
scissors. Not all
of them bring interesting results right away, but I did once
experience making
a very poetic cut-up from romance and suspense short stories
from trashy
magazines, a cut-up that made very little "sense" at the time, but
when I found it
in one of my drawers about 2 years later, it made perfect sense
and was no longer
surprising that it had been written at that time even if I
didn't understand
it then.
Keep trying!
Nic
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:31:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Geneaology of Town and the City (was Re:
the scary WSB/"highly
academic pseudo-language"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> Such scholarly
posts as those on WSB are really what Beat-l needs more
> of. There's been entirely too much useless chit
chat as of late. Let's
> keep such
scholarly discussions going.
Foucault's
writing is as impenetrable as mine (or more so), but i do
find much
interest in the concept of geneaology as applied literally
rather than
merely figuratively to non-family notions.
With Kerouac and
other authors we often find something akin to
geneaologies for
their entire live's writings (or typings).
This seems
much to wide a
swipe.
Beginning with
the publication of Town and the City we can create
several sorts of
geneaologies tracing figuratively into the roots of the
tree and probably
can trace branches of other writers that stem from the
trunk of T&C.
It seems that
several genealogical roots projects are possible. One is
literary
influences. It sounds as though the main
influence in style is
Thomas Wolfe and
so the current thread barely breathing is a
geneaological
thrust in examining Town and the City closely.
In other
words, to
understand the author's point of view and motives as writer
one must come to
the plate with a sense of Wolfe. The
understanding of
Wolfe will have
it's own geneaology etc. etc. etc. (as Yul Brenner
said).
Other threads
might include personal associations.
These would
certainly
influence the writing of T&C. What
other roots are part of
the influence
geneaology?
Moving upward, it
is tempting to only follow the course directed by JK
and examine the synthetic
combination of his collected works. But
an
alternative
geneaological approach is to examine the branches of writing
and influences
directly deriving from the influence of the single book
T&C.
>From the
examinations i've gleaned on various web sites it appears that
there is
"some" information relevant to such an approach, but people who
know much more
about this than I would have to contribute to the
familial literary
search in order for such a geneaological thread to
have
significance.
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:32:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Thomas Wolfe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gene Lee wrote:
>
> Hey all
> Just thought i would throw in my two
cents here- Thomas Wolfe was an
> amazing
author! And also a key influence on the young JK. But... I dont think
> any American
author of his time quite captures the romance of early 20th
> Century
America as Wolfe did. He was an enormous man with an enourmous
> appetite for
living and life and writing- much as JK was. And like JK- he had
> discipline
problems- with his life and his works. So sad- but genius aint
> easy- not
that i would know personally! Bummer- but maybe in the next life.
> Gene
I would think
that others were also enormous. What
literary
characteristics
distinguish Wolfe? How do these
characteristics
influence
Kerouac's T&C?
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:39:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: highly academic pseudo-language
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> Cathy Wilkie
wrote:
>
> > I don't think the people that speak the
> >
"highly academic pseudo-language" REALIZE they are UNINTENTIONALLY
> >
BLOCKING people like me from UNDERSTANDING their concepts. I think they
> > talk
that way and think everyone else can automatically understand it.
>
> === Yes and
no...In most of these instances that I've read, just in this
> first week
since I've joined the list, most of this stuff just cannot be
> put in
simpler terms....there is no simpler way to say
>
"self-referential", "epistemology",
"metaphysical", blah blah
> blah....even
though some of the stuff that comes across this list may
> look like
needlessly verbose horseshit, it isn't. The ideas behind some
> of it may be
pure crap, but there's nothing wrong with the way they're
> expressing
it. No one can be expected to provide a complete glossary of
> terms in
each and every post; but there's nothing stopping anyone from
> diving in
asking questions.
>
> However, I
*AM* on your side, because it seems to me that very few here
> are actually
trying to communicate with others; their postings are
> almost like
they're posting an essay on a bulletin board and walking
> away. If
there's something you don't understand, don't be afraid to
> stand up and
ask, ask a hundred questions, that's what these lists are
> supposed to
be for, they're discussion groups. There will inevitably be
> assholes who
will make groaning holier-than-thou comments with an air of
> superiority,
but just ignore them. The ones who think they know the most
> about Beat
only know trivia, not the heart and soul of the matter.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland,
Kentucky
> looking for
my bottle of cholula
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
the way that it
is translated to "the nutshell viewpoint" is by giving
GOOD and SPECIFIC
Examples not only from text but also from everyday
living (fishing
and hunting is how my Aristotle prof expressed
everything).
certainly someone
like Heidegger is more understandable just by knowing
that much of his
writings are the result of his meandering mind while
his body meanders
through the Black Forest -- just as WSB does a bit in
Retreat Diaries.
bringing
"high-brow" ideas into the realm of the everyday can be done.
the people who
coined and penned six billion dollar words were people -
they put on their
pants and shoes just like y'all and I.
sometimes it
seems that the distinction drawn that these folks thoughts
cannot be
translated into everyday presentations of living is precisely
the reason that
WSB's suggestion that the intellectual is a deviant.
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-MD5:
DcWOvf159hWv44dTms3v8w==
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:46:17 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao
<nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Re: the scary WSB(Mark)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
As far as I know
it affected his life deeply. I don't remember what he has said
about loving
Joan, but I once read an interview where he stated that the
shooting of Joan
was what forced him to write. WSB believed to have been
possesed by the
Ugly Spirit and that made him kill her. I think he said
something about
Joan's death and the Ugly Spirit being his motivation for
writing untill
Ginsberg performed and exorcism on him in the 80ies, but am not
sure.
Nic
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:01:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think McNally's
and Clark's are better ! P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-MD5:
tbMwBcXm1+hDnxEqOHkHog==
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:04:03 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao
<nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Re: WSB and The Third Mind
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
last i heard it
was out of print. haven't been able to find it anywhere
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:29:05 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> What
endeared WSB most to Korzybski's theory of general semantics was
> the way in
which it showed the errors of Aristotelian thinking - the
>
"either/or" simplistic way of thinking that is curiously evident on
this
> list even
now, what with the heated and pointless arguments about
>
"pedophilia bad!" versus "pedophilia good!" and the
Charters vs. Nicosia
> debate. In
short, in addition to Yes/no, right/wrong, good/evil, the
> Universe
contains a MAYBE.....and it is this elemental Maybe that occurs
> most often,
despite humans' efforts to reduce everything to Brand A or
> Brand X,
liberal vs. conservative, Coke vs. Pepsi, or God and the Devil.
>
Mr. Holland,
Which works by
Aristotle delineate this position?
- John Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:43:38 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
WSB first got
into Korzybski in the 1930's after reading his "Science &
Sanity"; he
attended five of Korzybski's lectures in 1939.
What endeared WSB
most to Korzybski's theory of general semantics was
the way in which
it showed the errors of Aristotelian thinking - the
"either/or"
simplistic way of thinking that is curiously evident on this
list even now,
what with the heated and pointless arguments about
"pedophilia
bad!" versus "pedophilia good!" and the Charters vs. Nicosia
debate. In short,
in addition to Yes/no, right/wrong, good/evil, the
Universe contains
a MAYBE.....and it is this elemental Maybe that occurs
most often,
despite humans' efforts to reduce everything to Brand A or
Brand X, liberal
vs. conservative, Coke vs. Pepsi, or God and the Devil.
To Korzybski, a
printed or spoken word was emphatically not the thing it
represented, and
WSB jumped on this concept and ran with it, eager to
bring about the
desconstruction, if not the destruction, of language.
This may seem
simplistic, but there really is a problem with how words
build up like
cholesterol in our subconcious with preconceptions about
all things, and
limit our ability to think in non-linear terms. Anyone
who is truly
fluent in a second language unconsciously understands this.
This doesn't even
begin to cover it all, but it's the basics.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Kentucky
the vampire who
loved garlic
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:26:35 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
> > >
> > >
What endeared WSB most to Korzybski's theory of general semantics was
> > >
the way in which it showed the errors of Aristotelian thinking - the
> > >
"either/or" simplistic way of thinking that is curiously evident on
this
<snip>
> and then
John Hasbrouck asked:
>
> > Mr.
Holland,
> >
> > Which
works by Aristotle delineate this position?
>
> and now JSH
replies:
>
> === which
position? the "either/or" way of looking at things is basic
> fundamental
Aristotelian logic, look it up.
Korzybski proposed that
> things are
more dimensional than that, and that rather than look at
> things in
Aristotle's either/or logic, we should be using more concepts
> like
"maybe", "sometimes", and "sort-of". Korzybski
decried what he saw
> as flaws in
Aristotlian logic's adherence to the yes/no duality. As I
> already
stated above.
>
Mr. Holland,
I am refering to
the position you ascribe to Aristotle. I will be happy
to look it up if
only you will only tell me whence I might do so. From
your posts I
assume that you've read Aristotle as well as Korzybski. Is
my assumption
correct?
- John Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:35:48 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> >
> > What
endeared WSB most to Korzybski's theory of general semantics was
> > the way
in which it showed the errors of Aristotelian thinking - the
> >
"either/or" simplistic way of thinking that is curiously evident on
this
> > list
even now, what with the heated and pointless arguments about
> >
"pedophilia bad!" versus "pedophilia good!" and the Charters
vs. Nicosia
> > debate.
In short, in addition to Yes/no, right/wrong, good/evil, the
> >
Universe contains a MAYBE.....and it is this elemental Maybe that occurs
> > most
often, despite humans' efforts to reduce everything to Brand A or
> > Brand
X, liberal vs. conservative, Coke vs. Pepsi, or God and the Devil.
and then John
Hasbrouck asked:
> Mr. Holland,
>
> Which works
by Aristotle delineate this position?
and now JSH
replies:
=== which
position? the "either/or" way of looking at things is basic
fundamental
Aristotelian logic, look it up.
Korzybski proposed that
things are more
dimensional than that, and that rather than look at
things in
Aristotle's either/or logic, we should be using more concepts
like
"maybe", "sometimes", and "sort-of". Korzybski
decried what he saw
as flaws in
Aristotlian logic's adherence to the yes/no duality. As I
already stated
above.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Ky
high on ice cream
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:47:39 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Richard Wallner
wrote:
>
> Both are
good books...but the best Kerouac bio is yet to come. Neither
> Nicosia or
Charters had access to all of Kerouac's journals and papers.
> Douglas
Brinkley has been chosen by the Sampas family to write the
>
"authorized" biography, the first written with full access to the
> papers. Im sure Brinkley willdo a terrific job,
provided Sampas doesnt
> try to edit
it as he did the letters.
=== I wish
Brinkley would find a way to surreptitiously photocopy
everything and
then leak it to the world.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
ky
Jeffrey
Scott
Holland
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
still eatin' ice cream
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:58:00 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> It may well
be that Aristotle may have been a deeper guy than these
> Non-Aristotelian
upstarts give him credit for, and that all these
> people's
references to his shortcomings are gross oversimplifications on
> THEIR part,
and that Aristotle is simply getting a bad rep from writers
> and
researchers who are overly eager to trash anything traditional. But
> I doubt it.
>
I think we can
agree to disagree on this point.
Thank you for
your response.
John Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:03:55 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Korzybski and Aristotle
Comments: To:
Sean Young <Sean.Young@DSW.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sean,
Thanks for
posting the Korzybski passage.
It provided
much-needed clarification.
I now withdraw
from this thread.
John Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:09:16 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: WSB-Huncke connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
>
> Did you know
that Herbert Huncke gave WSB his very first shot? I found
> that out
today, from the Huncke Reader I told y'all about.
=== Huncke is not
world reknowned for his honesty.....according to Ted
Morgan, WSB was
selling and using Junk when the two met for the first
time. WSB offered
to sell some Junk and some guns to Huncke and another
guy, that's how
they met. I don't know who's right and who's wrong, of
course - I wasn't
there, obviously - but I tend to believe WSB & Morgan
over Huncke.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - ky
listening to
distant sirens
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:26:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Leon Tabory
wrote:
> For example
I haven't seen anyone suggest that pedophilia may be good.
=== Well, I think
that's what it amounts to, when someone tries to
rationalize that
sex with young teens is not pedophilia, and that it's
'very common in
other countries'. But puh-leeeeze, let's bury the
pedothread. I'm
sorry I brought it up again.
> and even if
I like Korzybski's ideas, general
> semantics
etc., I still will consider some things good and some things bad.
=== so do I, and
so did Korzybski, I'm sure, but the trick is keep
perspective that
even so, these are only our opinions and not empirical
facts.
>
> Ditto for
the biography preferences questions. The questions raised and
> explanations
of preferences given were quite interesting and valid to me. I
> didsn't see
any either/or dichotomies there.
=== The whole
name of the thread, "Charters vs. Nicosia", virtually
screams it from
the rooftop. There is no need to look at the two in
"vs."
terms, they're both fine books. The real argument is not with the
books anyway but
the politicking and goings-on with the Kerouac estate
and Sampas.
> Excuse me, I
am fluent in more than two languages and I believe you are
> basically wrong
about your conclusions regarding the posts that you saw
=== My reference
to being multi-lingual had absolutely nothing to do
with those posts,
I was talking about something else by that point. I
was referring to
the heightened sense of awareness one gains regarding
language when one
is multi-lingual.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, ky
getting really
tired of saying
everything twice
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:47:36 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein, Derrida, all those guys
and the Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Much of
Burroughs work is similar to deconstructionism and Wittgenstien.
>I don't
whetever he directly influcened by them or by Korbynski(who
>himself
ripped off Wittgenstein). I'm going for the latter.
According to all
the bios Burroughs was really into Korbynski and something
called general
Semantics.
I only know the
name from Kerouac and Burroughs bios; Count Alfred
Korbynski as I
recall.
>in his WSB
was
>trying to
show the lanugage controls perception and thinking and/or
>cultural
values. It has a touch of mystiscm to it.
I think this
would be an understatement, the touch of mysticism.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:49:46 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Hasbrouck
wrote:
> Mr. Holland,
>
> I am
refering to the position you ascribe to Aristotle. I will be happy
> to look it
up if only you will only tell me whence I might do so. From
> your posts I
assume that you've read Aristotle as well as Korzybski. Is
> my
assumption correct?
=== I haven't
read Aristotle since high school and hope not to read him
again in this
lifetime. However, I have read plenty of diverse sources
over the years
that also refer to the linear, simplistic nature of his
logic, as
compared to, say, Hegel or more importantly, Quantum Physics.
Korzybski is the
one who said the traditional and classical logic of
Aristotle is
incomplete, not me, though in principle I embrace the idea
myself.
One need not have
read Aristotle to have read about Aristotelian logic
and know what it
is, just as I have never read Sir Isaac Newton, but
have an
understanding of gravity - a better one, in fact, than if I had
read only Newton.
It may well be
that Aristotle may have been a deeper guy than these
Non-Aristotelian
upstarts give him credit for, and that all these
people's
references to his shortcomings are gross oversimplifications on
THEIR part, and
that Aristotle is simply getting a bad rep from writers
and researchers
who are overly eager to trash anything traditional. But
I doubt it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S. Holland, ky
spice o' mac
vauti
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MR-Received: by
mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:15:25 -0500
Alternate-recipient:
prohibited
Posting-date:
Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:15:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance:
normal
Priority: normal
UA-content-id:
E153ZXFSHIA30
X400-MTS-identifier:
[;52512130208991/1812163@FIRNVX]
A1-type: MAIL
Hop-count: 1
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:14:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "James F. Wood 253-7886"
<WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>
Subject: Cut ups
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Would like to
hear more about the cup ups, this is like a collage?
Thanks
Jim
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:16:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein, Derrida, all those guys
and the Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:47 AM
2/3/98 -0800, you wrote:
>According to
all the bios Burroughs was really into
>Korbynski and
something called general Semantics.
Alfred Korzybski
was a linguist and he started the approach
of general
semantics. It focuses on how people evaluate
words and how
that evalution influences their behaviour.
Hope that is a
help?
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:47:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yes, Nancy,
please send us full information including date, time, and address.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:52:29 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: WSB-Huncke connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
> >
> > Did you
know that Herbert Huncke gave WSB his very first shot? ...<snip>...
> === Huncke
is not world reknowned for his honesty.....according to Ted
> Morgan, WSB
was selling and using Junk when the two met for the first
> time. WSB
offered to sell some Junk and some guns to Huncke and another
> guy, that's
how they met....<snip>
its been more
than 20 years since i read junkie, but doesn't burroughs
say there that he
took his first shot at that time? that
hunkie showed
him how to use
the morphene syretts without needles....i think....
tkc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:57:12 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Leon Tabory
wrote:
>
> Since you
are sparing no words in enlightening us about deficient
>
epistomologies and linguistic philosophies
=== uh, hello, I
have NO idea what you are talking about. I was only
reporting what I
knew of Korzybski's beliefs, not making any
"enlightening"
proclamations of my own.
> Another
question for you: Got any ideas at what age sexual activities
> commonly
start today?
=== As I already
indicated, I lost my virginity at 12. But the relevance
of your question
escapes me.
> It is not
about pedophilia, it is about your
> glib
cricicisms of our "simpleminded" posts.
=== Who is
"our"? I never called your posts or anyone else's posts
simpleminded. But
maybe it's time I started.
"Glib",
huh? Nixon called Kennedy glib.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S Holland, ky
wishing Ginsberg
were
here to go
"OMMMMMMMMM"
for us all
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:00:38 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Richard Wallner
wrote:
...snip...
Douglas Brinkley has been chosen by the Sampas family to
write the
>
"authorized" biography,...snip....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:46:35 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Korzybski and Aristotle
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Korzybki, by way
of Sean Young, wrote:
> "I wish to emphasize here that in
discussing the inadequacy of the
> Aristotelian system in 1950, I in no way
disparage the remarkable and
> unprecedented work of Aristotle about 350
B.C.
=== Thanks for
posting this, Sean, I was too lazy to go looking for
relevant quotes
myself.
This will
hopefully appease the people who mistankenly think I am
claiming that
Korzybski was Aristotle-bashing. I myself am certainly
appeased, since
Korzybski uses the word "inadequacy" to describe the
Aristotelian
system. "Inadequacy" probably should have been the word I
originally used
in my first post, rather than "errors" but that word
came from WSB and
besides, it's all semantics anyway ;)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==
Jeffrey Holland -
kentucky
deep in the heart
of darkest America
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:59:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Thomas Wolfe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey
I never bothered to disect Wolfe when I
read him- I just enjoyed the
power of his
words. As i haven't read T&C due to an inability to find a copy
and it being the
only book of JK's I haven't read- i am not gonna do a
comparison. I do
know that JK always spoke of Wolfe as being a huge influence
on him.
GT
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:04:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I posted this
info yesterday. Perhaps, for those of you that didnt catch
it, someone can
fwd it you. I dont feel like writing the whole thing out
again. But the
first show is this sunday at anthology archives on 2nd St.
On Tue, 3 Feb
1998, Bill Gargan wrote:
> Yes, Nancy,
please send us full information including date, time, and address.
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:05:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: WSB-Huncke connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Did you know that
Herbert Huncke gave WSB his very first shot? I found
that out today,
from the Huncke Reader I told y'all about.
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:21:07 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
-----Original
Message-----
From: Jeffrey
Scott Holland <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday,
February 03, 1998 10:19 AM
Subject: the
WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
<<SNIP>>
the
>"either/or"
simplistic way of thinking that is curiously evident on this
>list even
now, what with the heated and pointless arguments about
>"pedophilia
bad!" versus "pedophilia good!" and the Charters vs. Nicosia
>debate. In
short, in addition to Yes/no, right/wrong, good/evil, the
>Universe
contains a MAYBE.....
I have more of a
problem with the intimidatingly skillful slinging of
masterfully
constructed words than with the "simplistic" thinking lately on
the list.
For example I
haven't seen anyone suggest that pedophilia may be good. There
were some
questions raised when a person may be considered grown up enough.
Good question.
Good considerations. Even if I do not divide everything
between good and
bad, and even if I like Korzybski's ideas, general
semantics etc., I
still will consider some things good and some things bad.
Ditto for the
biography preferences questions. The questions raised and
explanations of
preferences given were quite interesting and valid to me. I
didsn't see any
either/or dichotomies there.
<<SNIP>>
Anyone
>who is truly
fluent in a second language unconsciously understands this.
>>This
doesn't even begin to cover it all, but it's the basics.
>
Excuse me, I am
fluent in more than two languages and I believe you are
basically wrong
about your conclusions regarding the posts that you saw,
even if you might
understand Korzybski's theories perfectly well.
leon
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Kentucky
>the vampire
who loved garlic
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Errors-To:
<vorys@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:32:35 -0600
Reply-To: vorys@concentric.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: vorys <vorys@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In the early 80's
I saw an unpublished booklet about 70 pages in length.
It was titled
Marginalia to Kerouac. They were Ginsbergs personal notes
on the
corrections to errors in Charter's book. This booklet may still
be in Naropa
Institute's library or archives. I believe it was written
after Charter's
book was published. I would like to know if Ann ever
corrected the
errors.
For the sake of
scholarship some researchers should know this existed.
It was 8 1/2 by
11 and bound at Kinkos with a protective report cover.
BTW: Both Nicosia
and Charters books have merit, I've enjoyed and
recommend them
both.
Thanks, Steve
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:44:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard Wallner
<rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Charters vs Nicosia
Comments: To:
vorys <vorys@concentric.net>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Both are good
books...but the best Kerouac bio is yet to come. Neither
Nicosia or
Charters had access to all of Kerouac's journals and papers.
Douglas Brinkley
has been chosen by the Sampas family to write the
"authorized"
biography, the first written with full access to the
papers. Im sure Brinkley willdo a terrific job,
provided Sampas doesnt
try to edit it as
he did the letters.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:04:19 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Will brinkley
write this. yesterday Paul Mahr wrote
"Wait until
you read Ellis Amburn's bio..."
Paul, are both
Brinkley and Amburn writing a biography or just one of them?
At 04:47 PM
2/3/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Richard
Wallner wrote:
>>
>> Both are
good books...but the best Kerouac bio is yet to come. Neither
>> Nicosia
or Charters had access to all of Kerouac's journals and papers.
>> Douglas
Brinkley has been chosen by the Sampas family to write the
>>
"authorized" biography, the first written with full access to the
>>
papers. Im sure Brinkley willdo a
terrific job, provided Sampas doesnt
>> try to
edit it as he did the letters.
>
>
>
>=== I wish
Brinkley would find a way to surreptitiously photocopy
>everything
and then leak it to the world.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
ky
>Jeffrey
> Scott
> Holland
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
still eatin' ice cream
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Description:
cc:Mail note part
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:36:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Young <Sean.Young@DSW.COM>
Subject: Korzybski and Aristotle
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
here's Korzyski on Aristotle.
Peace,
Sean
---------------------------------------------------
"I wish to emphasize here that in
discussing the inadequacy of the
Aristotelian system in 1950, I in no way
disparage the remarkable and
unprecedented work of Aristotle about 350
B.C. I acknowledge
explicitly my profound admiration for his
extraordinary genius,
particularly in consideration of the
period in which he lived.
Nevertheless, the twisting of his system
and the imposed immobility of
this twisted system, as enforced for
nearly two thousand
years by the controlling groups, often
under threats of torture and
death, have led and can only lead to more
disasters. From what we know
about Aristotle and his writings, there is
little doubt that, if
alive, he would not tolerate such
twistings and artificial immobility
of the system usually ascribed to
him."
Premises of non-Aristotelian thought
(General Semantics)
"1.A map is not the territory.
(Words are not the things they
represent.)
2.A map covers not all the territory.
(Words cannot cover all they
represent.)
3.A map is self-reflexive. (In
language we can speak about
language.)"
------- Alfred Korzybski, "The role
of language in the perceptual
process.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Permission is hereby granted to share
electronic and hard copy
versions of this text with individuals
under circumstances in which no
direct payment is made by those to whom
the text is given for the text
itself, the volume or other medium or
online service in which it is
included, tuition or other payment for the
course or seminar, and so
forth. This notice must remain a part of
the text. Any other use is
reserved to the Institute of General
Semantics and/or the author and
requires prior permission. For further
information, e-mail the
Institute or write: The Institute of
General Semantics, 163 Engle
Street, #4B, Englewood, NJ 07631, USA.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:44:36 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeff Taylor
wrote:
>
> Isn't there
just an obvious contradiction here? K (and WSB following
> him) insists
that either/or logic is a basic error, but then in
> practically
the same breath, they themselves insist on an either/or
> distinction:
EITHER the word OR the thing.
=== *Do* they
insist on a word/thing dichotomy? I hadn't thought of it
in that way. To
say that "a thing and a word are not the same" is not
the same
statement as "If it's not a thing, it must be a word". I assume
K and WSB both
would have said that K's principles of semantics also
applies to
itself, and that the idea can never be 100% perfectly stated,
only approached.
> A further
irony is that this particular distinction is not even
> generally
valid: while the word "table" is not itself a table, the
> word
"word" *is* itself a word. So sometimes the word *can* be the
> thing it
represents.
=== This is the
rabbit-hole that WSB fell through, and went half insane
in the process,
asking "what ARE words, really, anyway?". Your example
is only true as
far as the Dictionary definition of a word goes, but
doesn't cover the
unconscious (or not so unconscious) way we think of
words and carry
them in our heads..as thoughtforms, or memes, sort
of....this is
what WSB is getting at when he calls language a virus. We
all know what
words mean generally, and if we don't we can just look
them up, but the
point K was making is that the definition of a word
cannot be fully
described - because to crystallize a thought into a word
automatically
reduces it, codifies it like turning a rich analog signal
into choppy
simple digital, makes it not the same thing.
>
> It seems to
me that either/or logic, must, at at least some level, be
> correct.
=== either/or is
certainly a necessary step in logical deduction, I
don't think
anyone would dispute that. I interpret K as saying that it
can and should go
further, however, to a higher level. Either/or
thinking is two
dimensional, two directions; I think K was reaching for
three-dimensional
or even four-dimensional thought. I wonder if K ever
read Edwin
A.Abbott?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J S H.......k e n
t u c k y
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:48:30 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
-----Original
Message-----
From: Jeffrey
Scott Holland <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday,
February 03, 1998 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: the
WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
>Leon Tabory
wrote:
>
>> For
example I haven't seen anyone suggest that pedophilia may be good.
>
>=== Well, I
think that's what it amounts to, when someone tries to
>rationalize
that sex with young teens is not pedophilia, and that it's
>'very common
in other countries'.
Since you are
sparing no words in enlightening us about deficient
epistomologies
and linguistic philosophies let'shave a closer look at your
thought
processes:
If someone says
in some country teenagers considered sufficiently grown up
for sex, does
that mean they say pedophilia is good?
BTW, do you realize that it wasn't so many
generations ago that in the
western world
also, thirteen year olds were considered
old enough for legal
marriage? That
was before they needed as much time as they do now to become
skilled in
socio-economic
activities, not
to reach sexual maturity.
Another question
for you: Got any ideas at what age sexual activities
commonly start
today? I take the question back because I want to take your
advice and drop
this thread. It is not about pedophilia, it is about your
glib cricicisms
of our "simpleminded" posts.
leon
But puh-leeeeze, let's bury the
>pedothread.
I'm sorry I brought it up again.
>
>
>
>> and even
if I like Korzybski's ideas, general
>>
semantics etc., I still will consider some things good and some things
bad.
>
>=== so do I,
and so did Korzybski, I'm sure, but the trick is keep
>perspective
that even so, these are only our opinions and not empirical
>facts.
>
>
>
>>
>> Ditto
for the biography preferences questions. The questions raised and
>>
explanations of preferences given were quite interesting and valid to me.
I
>> didsn't
see any either/or dichotomies there.
>
>=== The whole
name of the thread, "Charters vs. Nicosia", virtually
>screams it
from the rooftop. There is no need to look at the two in
>"vs."
terms, they're both fine books. The real argument is not with the
>books anyway
but the politicking and goings-on with the Kerouac estate
>and Sampas.
>
>
>
>> Excuse
me, I am fluent in more than two languages and I believe you are
>>
basically wrong about your conclusions regarding the posts that you saw
>
>=== My
reference to being multi-lingual had absolutely nothing to do
>with those
posts, I was talking about something else by that point. I
>was referring
to the heightened sense of awareness one gains regarding
>language when
one is multi-lingual.
>
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>J.S.Holland,
ky
>getting
really
>tired of
saying
>everything
twice
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:57:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Joyce, WSB, word play about word play
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 09:57 PM
1/29/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 29-Jan-98 6:55:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU
writes:
>
><<
Finnegans Wake
>
>
> Finnegans of
the world wake up
> >>
>thanks,
tim... the second I sent it I thought I'd done it wrong. Maggie
>
>
Finnegan, Begin
again..., with Kerouac stuff. I thought
I had wandered
onto the Joyce
list. Finnegan's Wake is inpenetrable,
but Molly
Bloom's soliloqhy
is the most wonderful payoff to Ulysses.
Mike
rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Description:
cc:Mail note part
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:15:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Young <Sean.Young@DSW.COM>
Subject: General Semantics basic overview
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello all:
I posted this overview to clarify some
General Semantics
misconceptions. It is from this Web site:
http://www.general-semantics.org/graphics/ghome.html
Sorry if it is overly long. When reading
it also consider how
Burroughs expressed similar ideas. I believe
it sheds light on what
Burroughs was doing with language in the
cut-ups and his collage
methods. As in: trying to cut through
wordlines and get to the
prerecordings themselves. Check out the
above Web site's section on
Major Works and read "The role of
language in the perceptual process"
by Korzybski. I myself have just started
reading about General
Semantics and that is why I chose to use
the GS instute's wording
here. Note the copyright at the bottom.
Peace and understanding to all.
Sean D. Young
-------------------------------------------------------------------
General-Semantics
....it's not semantics
....it's not just a matter of words
....it's an approach to living
How is it that we humans have
advanced so far in science,
mathematics and technology, yet we
demonstrate so much confusion,
misunderstanding, and violence in our
interactions with others and
within ourselves?
This question led engineer and scholar
Alfred Korzybski on a lifelong
quest to examine the structures behind the
methods of science and then
to apply these structures generally to all
areas of human existence.
This journey led him to study the new
outlooks in physics, chemistry,
etc., the foundations of mathematics,
psychiatry, etc., and to
formulate their most up-to-date principles
into a practical, teachable
system for living. He called this system
General Semantics ("g-s") and
introduced it in his major work, Science
and Sanity, first printed in
1933 and now in its fifth edition. The
book has inspired many
popularizations, over one hundred and
fifty doctoral dissertations and
two journals.
General-Semantics teaches that life
issues become clearer and
more manageable as we move toward:
* a better understanding of the
background assumptions we bring to
a situation
* a willingness and an ability to make
careful and clear
observations
* a willingness to continuously test,
examine, evaluate, and change
our assumptions and behavior based on our
observations.
G-S provides information, methods,
structures, and practical
devices to assist us with the above goals
We Humans can be described as ...
Time-Binders -- Each generation, through
symbols, especially language,
gains from and builds upon the experience
of past generations. We
learn from each other, and pass on this
knowledge. Korzybski called
this process "time-binding", and
considered it important enough to
serve as a basis for defining humans.
Symbol Users -- Humans are symbol users
and symbol manipulators.
Language, including the special language
called "mathematics", is our
most important symbol system. How we use
language determines the way
we think, our relationship with ourselves,
others, and our world. Many
human problems can be traced to our
ignorance of the ways we use
language and the ways language uses us.
Problem Solvers -- Critical thinking and
creative problem solving are
basic human activities. Science and
mathematics are examples of our
mosteffective problem solving activities
-- effective in terms of
realizing goals. Effective problem solving
requires an ability to
first clarify the issues involved
(therefore to think critically) and
then apply creative processes to generate
proposed solutions, which
are then critically evaluated.
General-Semantics and Problem Solving
G-S is a system which generalizes the
principles and methods of
modern science to all areas of human
activity. Its principles and
methods can be utilized to enhance our day
to day activities and our
relationships.
Some Formulations of General-Semantics --
necessarily broad and
incomplete
We live in a world of constant change
and uncertainty. Our
experience, knowledge and understanding
have limits. Our lives are a
blend of different and sometimes
conflicting relationships. Bringing
this into awareness is a step toward
healthier living. When we
interact with an object, a person, or a
situation, we form images and
create symbols. Initially these occur
totally within ourselves and our
nervous systems. Our brains form these
images and symbols by modelling
(mapping) the outside world and in the
process filters out most
information. The selected information
therefore always represents an
abstract of the interaction.
Different people select (abstract)
information differently --
draw different maps of a territory.
Awareness of this abstracting process
provides a key to
developing our potential as humans.
The symbols we form, the words we use
are not the
object/situation in all its infinite
characteristics.
Many of our personal
misunderstandings arise when we act as if we
have all the information about anything or
anyone.
No two objects or situations are
exactly the same, but, for
convenience, we may categorize them.
Treating them as if they were the
same --
ignoring their differences -- can
lead to misunderstandings,
conflicts, and even tragedies.
We often confuse our symbols and maps
with what they represent.
We benefit by remembering that the map is
not the territory, the word
is not the thing. They are symbols we have
created.
We are self-reflexive; we react to
our reactions. This gives us
opportunities to improve what we believe,
think, feel, see and do.
A Tool for Life
General-Semantics has been a useful
discipline in helping people
with:
Personal relationships
Critical thinking
Professional development
Child raising
Adjustment to change
Communication
Industrial management
Problem solving
Decision making
Stress management
Conflict management
and more.....
General-Semantics...
...teaches us how symbols are related to
experience so as to make
it less likely that we take too seriously
the absurd or dangerous
nonsense that within every culture passes
for philosophy, wisdom, and
political argument. --- Aldous Huxley
...helps us to understand ourselves
better so that we can
understand others better. --- Karen
Groshek
...like a bag of tools. When
different situations arise you open
the bag and take out the tool that will
help you with a particular
situation... --- A member of g-s
discussion group
...experience shows that when the
methods of general semantics
are applied, the results are usually
beneficial, whether in law,
medicine, business, etc., be they in
family, national, or
international fields. If they are not
applied, but merely talked
about, no results can be expected.
--- Alfred Korzybski
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The Institute of General Semantics also
has available for purchase
Books, Tapes, and Videos. Listings of
materials, programs and
Institute membership are available on
request. Request information by
e-mail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Permission is hereby granted to share
electronic and hard copy
versions of this text with individuals
under circumstances in which no
direct payment is made by those to whom
the text is given for the text
itself, the volume or other medium or
online service in which it is
included, tuition or other payment for the
course or seminar, and so
forth. This notice must remain a part of
the text. Any other use is
reserved to the Institute of General
Semantics and/or
the author and requires prior permission.
For further information,
e-mail the Institute or write: The
Institute of General Semantics, 163
Engle Street, #4B, Englewood, NJ 07631,
USA.
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:50:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: One
(was: the WSB-Korzybski connection)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeff Taylor
wrote:
>
> Did K say
that NO idea can be perfectly stated? If he did, he's wrong
> about that,
too: when we say "one", we have stated the idea of the
> number one
as perfectly as perfect can be. 1 is *exactly* 1 and
> nothing
else.
=== oh, come on!
....you can't possibly be serious.
what IS
"one"? what IS the idea of the number one? how do you know?
prove it. Don't
point to a book because I'll ask, how do your sources
know? can they
prove it? how? Is one the first number? Or is it zero? I
thought integers
were numbers, what about negative integers? How can
there be ANY
first number with negative integers? When we say "one",
might we be
referring not to the number so much as a person (i.e. "JSH
is the cute
one" or "one might ask oneself")? The American Heritage
dictionary gives
seven different distinct meanings for "one", and simply
saying
"one" most assuredly does NOT state the idea perfectly. It only
seems like it if
you ALREADY KNOW the idea of one. Assuming the listener
even speaks
English. Does "Ein" have the same meaning as "One"? Does
not
any word have
different shades of personal meanings to each person? And
is it really the
loneliest number that we'll ever do?
=-=-=-=
jsh
ky
quack
=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:57:44 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: General Semantics basic overview
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sean,
Having gotten
myself involved in reacting to putdowns, I especially
appreciate a review of the cooling understandings and
tools of General
Semantics.
I had completely
forgotten that in 1959 I had done a study at the request of
a man who led
General Semantics training goups at San Quentin. The man did
it on his own
time voluntarily. I will not rest until I recall his name.
Applying the
Minnesota Multiphasic Personality test to his group before and
after their
training we found a statistically significant improvement in
thinking
processes. We reported the findings at a
conference at
Napa State Hospital at the time. Thanks for bringing back a
pleasant memory.
leon
From: Sean Young
<Sean.Young@DSW.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday,
February 03, 1998 2:31 PM
Subject: General
Semantics basic overview
> Hello all:
> I posted this overview to clarify some
General Semantics
> misconceptions. It is from this Web site:
>
http://www.general-semantics.org/graphics/ghome.html
> Sorry if it is overly long. When reading
it also consider how
> Burroughs expressed similar ideas. I
believe it sheds light on what
> Burroughs was doing with language in the
cut-ups and his collage
> methods. As in: trying to cut through
wordlines and get to the
> prerecordings themselves. Check out the
above Web site's section on
> Major Works and read "The role of
language in the perceptual process"
> by Korzybski. I myself have just started
reading about General
> Semantics and that is why I chose to use
the GS instute's wording
> here. Note the copyright at the bottom.
>
> Peace and understanding to all.
>
> Sean D. Young
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> General-Semantics
>
>
> ....it's not semantics
>
> ....it's not just a matter of words
>
> ....it's an approach to living
>
> How is it that we humans have
advanced so far in science,
> mathematics and technology, yet we
demonstrate so much confusion,
> misunderstanding, and violence in our
interactions with others and
> within ourselves?
>
> This question led engineer and scholar
Alfred Korzybski on a lifelong
> quest to examine the structures behind the
methods of science and then
> to apply these structures generally to all
areas of human existence.
> This journey led him to study the new outlooks
in physics, chemistry,
> etc., the foundations of mathematics,
psychiatry, etc., and to
> formulate their most up-to-date principles
into a practical, teachable
> system for living. He called this system
General Semantics ("g-s") and
> introduced it in his major work, Science
and Sanity, first printed in
> 1933 and now in its fifth edition. The
book has inspired many
> popularizations, over one hundred and
fifty doctoral dissertations and
> two journals.
>
> General-Semantics teaches that life issues
become clearer and
> more manageable as we move toward:
> * a better understanding of the
background assumptions we bring to
> a situation
> * a willingness and an ability to make
careful and clear
> observations
> * a willingness to continuously test,
examine, evaluate, and change
> our assumptions and behavior based on our
observations.
>
> G-S provides information, methods,
structures, and practical
> devices to assist us with the above goals
>
> We Humans can be described as ...
>
> Time-Binders -- Each generation, through
symbols, especially language,
> gains from and builds upon the experience
of past generations. We
> learn from each other, and pass on this
knowledge. Korzybski called
> this process "time-binding", and
considered it important enough to
> serve as a basis for defining humans.
>
> Symbol Users -- Humans are symbol users
and symbol manipulators.
> Language, including the special language
called "mathematics", is our
> most important symbol system. How we use
language determines the way
> we think, our relationship with ourselves,
others, and our world. Many
> human problems can be traced to our
ignorance of the ways we use
> language and the ways language uses us.
>
> Problem Solvers -- Critical thinking and
creative problem solving are
> basic human activities. Science and
mathematics are examples of our
> mosteffective problem solving activities --
effective in terms of
> realizing goals. Effective problem solving
requires an ability to
> first clarify the issues involved
(therefore to think critically) and
> then apply creative processes to generate
proposed solutions, which
> are then critically evaluated.
>
> General-Semantics and Problem Solving
> G-S is a system which generalizes the
principles and methods of
> modern science to all areas of human
activity. Its principles and
> methods can be utilized to enhance our day
to day activities and our
> relationships.
>
> Some Formulations of General-Semantics --
necessarily broad and
> incomplete
>
> We live in a world of constant change
and uncertainty. Our
> experience, knowledge and understanding
have limits. Our lives are a
> blend of different and sometimes
conflicting relationships. Bringing
> this into awareness is a step toward
healthier living. When we
> interact with an object, a person, or a
situation, we form images and
> create symbols. Initially these occur
totally within ourselves and our
> nervous systems. Our brains form these
images and symbols by modelling
> (mapping) the outside world and in the
process filters out most
> information. The selected information
therefore always represents an
> abstract of the interaction.
>
> Different people select (abstract)
information differently --
> draw different maps of a territory.
> Awareness of this abstracting process
provides a key to
> developing our potential as humans.
> The symbols we form, the words we use
are not the
> object/situation in all its infinite
characteristics.
> Many of our personal misunderstandings
arise when we act as if we
> have all the information about anything or
anyone.
> No two objects or situations are
exactly the same, but, for
> convenience, we may categorize them.
Treating them as if they were the
> same --
> ignoring their differences -- can
lead to misunderstandings,
> conflicts, and even tragedies.
> We often confuse our symbols and maps
with what they represent.
> We benefit by remembering that the map is
not the territory, the word
> is not the thing. They are symbols we have
created.
> We are self-reflexive; we react to
our reactions. This gives us
> opportunities to improve what we believe,
think, feel, see and do.
>
> A Tool for Life
>
> General-Semantics has been a useful
discipline in helping people
> with:
>
> Personal relationships
> Critical thinking
> Professional development
> Child raising
> Adjustment to change
> Communication
> Industrial management
> Problem solving
> Decision making
> Stress management
> Conflict management
> and more.....
>
> General-Semantics...
>
> ...teaches us how symbols are related
to experience so as to make
> it less likely that we take too seriously
the absurd or dangerous
> nonsense that within every culture passes
for philosophy, wisdom, and
> political argument. --- Aldous Huxley
>
> ...helps us to understand ourselves
better so that we can
> understand others better. --- Karen
Groshek
>
> ...like a bag of tools. When
different situations arise you open
> the bag and take out the tool that will
help you with a particular
> situation... --- A member of g-s
discussion group
>
> ...experience shows that when the
methods of general semantics
> are
applied, the results are usually beneficial, whether in law,
> medicine, business, etc., be they in
family, national, or
> international fields. If they are not
applied, but merely talked
> about, no results can be expected.
> --- Alfred Korzybski
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Institute of General Semantics also
has available for purchase
> Books, Tapes, and Videos. Listings of
materials, programs and
> Institute membership are available on
request. Request information by
> e-mail.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> Permission is hereby granted to share
electronic and hard copy
> versions of this text with individuals
under circumstances in which no
> direct payment is made by those to whom
the text is given for the text
> itself, the volume or other medium or
online service in which it is
> included, tuition or other payment for the
course or seminar, and so
> forth. This notice must remain a part of
the text. Any other use is
> reserved to the Institute of General
Semantics and/or
> the author and requires prior permission.
For further information,
> e-mail the Institute or write: The
Institute of General Semantics, 163
> Engle Street, #4B, Englewood, NJ 07631,
USA.
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Description:
cc:Mail note part
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:57:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Young <Sean.Young@DSW.COM>
Subject: Re: GS overview/Beat list
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Leon
and all,
Leon, thanks for your story. Yeah, GS
seems to bring a calmer approach
to communicating. Upon reading about
General Semantics I was struck
with how much of our time in our lives is
spent arguing over "what I
meant to say" or "you don't know
what you're talking about" types of
statements.
I hope that on the list we could sometimes
pause on the list and seek
"to understand" before
"being understood". Stating considerations as
opposed to declaring a position. Sharing
ideas as opposed to hurling
opinions back and forth. I look at it like
this: Opinions are easy,
anyone can have one, you don't need to
work for an opinion. Whereas
ideas have to be thought about, they are
always considerations and
subject to evolution. And opposing views
can help to sculpt a more
refined idea. And the realization that we
are all on the same path on
the Beat list, we may be at different
points on the path but it is the
same path.
Peace
Sean D. Young
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:01:55 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri
<love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
someone wrote:
>I was
referring to the heightened sense of awareness one gains regarding
>language when
one is multi-lingual.
i would go
further and say that adding even one language be it spoken or
symbolic, eg.,
music, math, etc., expands the structures within which one
thinks. language is built by a culture's particular
experience and thought
patterns. hence the fact that some languages are
extremely expressive about
certain ideas,
feelings, etc., while some languages have very few words for
the same
things. multilingualism at its best
allows much deeper
understanding of
cultures, psyches, the world around us and ourselves
because it
broadens our ability to conceptualize and pay attention to things
which, in our
native cultures, may not be considered much, if at all.
however, the
multilinguist must be open enough to pay attention to and
accept these
diversities, or the "awareness" may only be: "people are
different in
other parts of the world, and they don't have a clue".
ciao, sherri
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:14:54 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Beats and the Lost Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie Gerrity
wrote:
>
> I'm preparing to start research for a paper
I'm going to write
> comparing
the Beats to the Lost Generation of the 1920's and 30's.
> I've seen a
lot of similarities between the two groups: substance
> abuse,
disillusionment with America, expatriatism (both literal and
> figurative).
> I plan to center my argument around a
comparison of _On The Road_ to
> Hemingway's
_The Sun Also Rises_ and "Howl" to T.S. Eliot's "The
>
Wasteland."
> Just curious to hear if anyone else has seen
any similarites between
> these two
literary groups, probably the two greatest in the history of
> American
Lit.
> Thanks,
> maggie g.
>
> ==
> "In
dreams begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
>
>
_________________________________________________________
> DO YOU
YAHOO!?
> Get your
free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Great idea -
Maggie
As a Publisher
and (past Beat - Paris & NEw York) I think your idea may
be a reasonable
book. Any interest in writing it?
I can think of a
number of similarities to the two--mostly in the case
of their European
experience...in particlar Paris.Both groups found
agreeable
publishers in Europe for some of their early work.OTR and Sun
Also Rises share
a genrational similarity - Ginsberg and JK looking for
Zen while Larry
in Sun looks for similar mystic understanding. etc etc.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:27:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Beats and Post/Modernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hey everybody. SO
today, I took up (again) what is turning
out to be my
eternal quest for
the meaning of "post modernism"-- seems no matter how much I
read, it just
gets more confusing....And then I decided to start w/ modernism,
which was worse.
The article I was reading mentioned every type of literature
created in the
first half of this century, and I had thought it was more of a
philosophy than a
time period, even though the two are closely linked.
Anyway- one of
the major characteristics of modernism, in fact, the first one
listed, is
"stream of conciousness" writing. And of course, no mention of
Keroauc or any
other Beat-type, when it always seemed to me that they had
played a big part
in developing this as a technique.
So I'm basicly
asking for any input/ideas about modernism or postmodernism in
general, and how
the beats relate to either of these topics. I'm a little
lost, and I
thought, who better to ask? :)
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:41:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB-Huncke connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
OKay, thanks. I
didnt know this about Huncke...
On Tue, 3 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
> >
> > Did you
know that Herbert Huncke gave WSB his very first shot? I found
> > that
out today, from the Huncke Reader I told y'all about.
>
>
> === Huncke
is not world reknowned for his honesty.....according to Ted
> Morgan, WSB
was selling and using Junk when the two met for the first
> time. WSB
offered to sell some Junk and some guns to Huncke and another
> guy, that's
how they met. I don't know who's right and who's wrong, of
> course - I
wasn't there, obviously - but I tend to believe WSB & Morgan
> over Huncke.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland - ky
> listening to
distant sirens
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
The Absence of
Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For
Sure-JK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:08:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
My question will
be what kind of control will the estate exercise over
Brinkley's
work. I myself will be very anxious to
read his book when
published, but
wonder if the gate keeper will allow everything out into the
open. I look forward to the day it is published, as
I will read it as soon
as I can get a
copy.
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> Richard
Wallner wrote:
> >
> > Both
are good books...but the best Kerouac bio is yet to come. Neither
> > Nicosia
or Charters had access to all of Kerouac's journals and papers.
> > Douglas
Brinkley has been chosen by the Sampas family to write the
> >
"authorized" biography, the first written with full access to the
> >
papers. Im sure Brinkley willdo a terrific
job, provided Sampas doesnt
> > try to
edit it as he did the letters.
>
> === I wish
Brinkley would find a way to surreptitiously photocopy
> everything
and then leak it to the world.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ky
> Jeffrey
> Scott
> Holland
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= still eatin' ice cream
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:32:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Tue, 3 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> What
endeared WSB most to Korzybski's theory of general semantics was
> the way in
which it showed the errors of Aristotelian thinking - the
>
"either/or" simplistic way of thinking
>
> To
Korzybski, a printed or spoken word was emphatically not the thing it
> represented,
Isn't there just
an obvious contradiction here? K (and WSB following
him) insists that
either/or logic is a basic error, but then in
practically the
same breath, they themselves insist on an either/or
distinction:
EITHER the word OR the thing.
A further irony
is that this particular distinction is not even
generally valid:
while the word "table" is not itself a table, the
word
"word" *is* itself a word. So sometimes the word *can* be the
thing it
represents.
It seems to me
that either/or logic, must, at at least some level, be
correct. *At the
very least* we need the following either/or: EITHER
some thing is
different in *some* way from something else OR it is
not. If we
couldn't tell whether or not anything was different from
anything else,
reality as a whole would just melt down into one
all-purpose blob.
Mathematics is unthinkable without either/or logic.
Computers too.
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:43:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Felix
<felix@ENGR.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: james baldwin
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
here is a long one:)
first off i have been unattentive to the list
for the past few days
so i am sorry if
i am stepping on the toes of other interesting
threads, but i am
in a journey for knowledge and sometimes you got to
step up and try
to start a thread of your own, ehh?
here we go i just put down james baldwin's
Sonny's Blues and at the
moment am hit
with soul searching thoughts about the fifties, bebop,
kerouac, racism,
and that common quest to uncover every inner emotion that
we all hide from
the world for the reason that we dont have anyone to
listen or have no
clue how to express it.
anyway this is just pure rantings from a
man deeply touched by this
story in need to
discuss this with anyone who would like to. sorry if
this is coming
out as jibberish but i am typing faster than normal.
what
struck me about the story as being related to the Beats is
the fact that the
story is about baldwin's younger brother coming from the
hopeless
situation of blacks in harlem finding there place in a still
racially overcast
society. his brother Sonny, dreamed of something better
a way of finding
who he was because he had a sense that he was greater
than what his
fate seemed to be headed toward. so he found his light
in music wishing
to be like Charlie Parker (ehh? sound a little similar to
mr. kerouac?)
so Sonny sought refuge in the Navy
(JK/merchant marines) then in small
apartments in the
village. and finally fell into the addiction of most
jazz musicians of
the time, heroin. anyway, baldwin's position is that he
is the older
brother trying to understand his younger brothers search for
a greater
understanding of his own life. and finally realizes that it is
his jazz which is
where the human soul is able to escape.
told you it would be jibberish but trust me
this is a great story and
if anyone has
read it (please tell me you have) then backchannel me or
share it out in
the open for the whole world to see.
oops!
sorry sometimes i confuse the real world with this computer
world we are all
in.
again please forgive the long rant but if i
am going to post for the
first time then i
might as well make it a splashing one....
"...no one really knows what i'm talking
about, yeah that's right my
name is Yauch..."
matt
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:02:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization: smiling
small thoughts
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: New Millenium Questions]]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
charles plymell
may return to the list soon.
DR
Return-Path:
<CVEditions@aol.com>
Received: from
imo22.mail.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.150])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
ESMTP id TAA26337
for <race@midusa.net>; Tue, 3 Feb
1998 19:05:11 -0600 (CST)
From:
CVEditions@aol.com
Received: from
CVEditions@aol.com
by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id
NJXJa10849
for <race@midusa.net>; Tue, 3 Feb
1998 19:50:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID:
<254bb7d8.34d7bb46@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb
1998 19:50:12 EST
To:
race@midusa.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re:
[Fwd: New Millenium Questions]
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 3.0
16-bit for Windows sub 61
Sure, I'd like to
come on soon.
cp
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:28:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
All existing
biographies do not even remotely grasp the depth of Kerouac's
persona, genius,
character, etc. The core to his insightful grasp of the
world and how his
intelligence worked exists most likely in his notebooks
and journals
which he kept up with throughout his life. Douglas Brinkley is
pursuing this
biography because he wanted to, not because he was chosen by
the estate and is
being paid to do it by them. It was a mutual agreement,
Brinkley wanted
to do it, Sterling Lord told the Estate, and the Estate
agreed to let him
do it. I don't think there is a concern over the estate
exercising
control over what will and won't be admitted in the biography.
Brinkley stands
on his own as a true scholar who will labor over this
venture with
integrity, craft, and above all scholarship. Something gravely
lacking in
current biographies in publication today. What we have here is
either a quick
summary of the author's life (which is good if you want that
type of thing
meaning Clark, Charters, and McNally), mock-critical
biographies which
purport to be the "best" and most incisive (yet to be
proven because it
does not stand the test of time: Memory Babe), or just
plain old
money-making good-only-for-the-pictures type bio (Angel-Headed
Hipster et. al.).
My own work which is over 500 pages I shelved in favor of
a diferent
approach to "biography." With the onset of Some of the Dharma and
a forthcoming
volume of letters, there is still much to be done in the way
of Kerouac
biography. Those who have written about K. had to do so with the
material that was
available to them. But none of them can ever be purported
as the
"best" for each offers something different to the reader. Paul of The
Kerouac
Quarterly.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vj@pop.primenet.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:46:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>From TKQ
>All existing
biographies do not even remotely grasp the depth of Kerouac's
>persona,
genius, character, etc.
and on . . .
Claptrap from a
youngster. Fortunately it was only an
e-mail . . . and not
500 pages.
_____________________
More harm is done
under guise of goodness than ever realized
by foul deed or
evil doer. Nevertheless, I wish I was
good.
--Herbert Huncke
V.J. Eaton
Tempe, AZ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:51:31 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Tue, 3 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> > Isn't
there just an obvious contradiction here? K (and WSB following
> > him)
insists that either/or logic is a basic error, but then in
> > practically
the same breath, they themselves insist on an either/or
> >
distinction: EITHER the word OR the thing.
>
> === *Do*
they insist on a word/thing dichotomy? I hadn't thought of it
> in that way.
To say that "a thing and a word are not the same" is not
> the same
statement as "If it's not a thing, it must be a word".
Well, that's not
what I said or implied. If indeed it's true that K
says that the
word is emphatically not the thing it refers to, then he
is insisting on a
word/thing dichotomy--not one that is meant to be
exhaustive of
reality as whole, of course, BUT IT IS STILL AN
EITHER/OR
DISTINCTION. And of course if it's possible to identify
something as word
at all and oppose it to a thing--well, this implies
the distinction
that everything is EITHER a word OR not a word--a
distinction that
IS valid for reality as a whole. As far as I can
tell, the whole
conceptuality in play here is still solidly founded on
either/or logic.
> I assume
> K and WSB
both would have said that K's principles of semantics also
> applies to
itself, and that the idea can never be 100% perfectly stated,
> only
approached.
Did K say that NO
idea can be perfectly stated? If he did, he's wrong
about that, too:
when we say "one", we have stated the idea of the
number one as
perfectly as perfect can be. 1 is *exactly* 1 and
nothing else.
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:52:56 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bentz,
Think of what a
biographer could do if (s)he could walk into the New York
Public Library
and have access to everything JK left when he died. Then add
all of Nicosia's
taped interviews to that stash, plus Charter's research
material.
Would that be
a dream archive? Or would it be a dream
archive?
j grant
>My question
will be what kind of control will the estate exercise over
>Brinkley's
work. I myself will be very anxious to
read his book when
>published,
but wonder if the gate keeper will allow everything out into the
>open. I look forward to the day it is published, as
I will read it as soon
>as I can get
a copy.
>
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
>> Richard
Wallner wrote:
>> >
>> >
Both are good books...but the best Kerouac bio is yet to come. Neither
>> >
Nicosia or Charters had access to all of Kerouac's journals and papers.
>> >
Douglas Brinkley has been chosen by the Sampas family to write the
>> >
"authorized" biography, the first written with full access to the
>> >
papers. Im sure Brinkley willdo a
terrific job, provided Sampas doesnt
>> > try
to edit it as he did the letters.
>>
>> === I
wish Brinkley would find a way to surreptitiously photocopy
>> everything
and then leak it to the world.
>>
>>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ky
>> Jeffrey
>> Scott
>> Holland
>>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= still eatin' ice cream
>
>
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:49:07 -0600
Reply-To: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: One
(was: the WSB-Korzybski connection)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Tue, 3 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> > Did K
say that NO idea can be perfectly stated? If he did, he's wrong
> > about
that, too: when we say "one", we have stated the idea of the
> > number
one as perfectly as perfect can be. 1 is *exactly* 1 and
> > nothing
else.
>
> === oh, come
on! ....you can't possibly be serious.
>
> what IS
"one"? what IS the idea of the number one? how do you know?
> prove it.
Don't point to a book because I'll ask, how do your sources
> know? can
they prove it? how? Is one the first number? Or is it zero? I
> thought
integers were numbers, what about negative integers? How can
> there be ANY
first number with negative integers? When we say "one",
> might we be
referring not to the number so much as a person (i.e. "JSH
> is the cute
one" or "one might ask oneself")? The American Heritage
> dictionary
gives seven different distinct meanings for "one", and simply
> saying
"one" most assuredly does NOT state the idea perfectly. It only
> seems like
it if you ALREADY KNOW the idea of one. Assuming the listener
> even speaks
English. Does "Ein" have the same meaning as "One"? Does
not
> any word
have different shades of personal meanings to each person? And
> is it really
the loneliest number that we'll ever do?
If you really
don't know what the number 1 is, I don't know what else
I can say to you.
OF COURSE the pattern of dots "one" can have any
possible meaning,
if you so choose. But what it refers to, when it's
used to refer to
the number 1, a pure singular unity, then it most
certainly does
express it perfectly. When you know what 1 is, there's
absolutely
nothing more to be known about it *itself*. Whether it's
the "first
number" is a totally extrinsic question. The number 1 does
not exist inside
my, or anyone else's, head. OF COURSE it can can have
all sorts of
subjective connotations, but those sorts of things have
ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING TO DO with what it itself is.
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Expiredinmiddle:
true
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:03:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>>At 07:46
PM 2/3/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>From
TKQ
>>>>All
existing biographies do not even remotely grasp the depth of Kerouac's
>>>>persona,
genius, character, etc.
>>>
>>>and
on . . .
>>>
>>>Claptrap
from a youngster. Fortunately it was
only an e-mail . . . and not
>>>500
pages.
>>>
>>
>>I can
prove what I say because I have researched 500 pages worth of material
>>( not
counting what was discarded). What is the source of your "claptrap"?
>>Because
you think me a youngster, that may be, it may not be, that stement
>>of yours
is irellevant, but what does the views of a "youngster" have to do
>>with
recognizing K. as a genius? My statements are to the effect that for
>>the most
part, biographies up to now have remained largely adulatory in
>>their
tone, but not mature in taking K. as a serious writer, architect of
>>new style
of consciousness-description, but also hugely capable of character
>>flaws
like everybody else. What biography can you show me that is accurately
>>documented
with solid proof on every page?
>> Your dismissal is largely condescending in
nature and biased in attitude.
>>I can
make an honest assessment because I researched my work and I have the
>>background
for it. What is yours? Paul...
>>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>He's
commenting on the content of your post, not your age.
>
>j grant
>
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
Then what was the
purpose of mentioning age at all? what
is the purpose of
calling
his post
"claptrap"? If you're going to
criticize the content then explain what
you thought was
wrong with it. I think Eaton's terse
comment was highly
unnecessary.
Al
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
>From
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Fri Feb 6
09:34:25 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Received: from
SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.101 #2) id m0xzxPj-001I5mC; Wed,
4 Feb 1998 06:30:23 +0100 (MET)
Received: from
segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.16) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)
with SMTP id <14.D5CBFEF9@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 6:30:23 +0100
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8c) with
NJE id 0629 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:30:29 -0500
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 1891; Wed,
4 Feb 1998 00:01:44 -0500
Received: from
UPIMSSMTPSYS04 by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP;
Wed, 04 Feb 98 00:01:43 EST
Received: from
UPIMSSMTPUSR04 - 207.68.143.160 by email.msn.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:01:17
-0800
Received: from
default - 153.34.232.126 by email.msn.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:01:11
-0800
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-Mailer:
Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Message-ID:
<0643b1101050428UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:58:11 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: LONG:
Corso on Kerouac part #1
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ELEGAIC FEELINGS
AMERICAN
(for the dear memory of Jack Kerouac)
1
How inseparable
you and the Maerica you saw yet was
never to see +ADs- you and America,
like the
tree and teh ground, are one the
same+ADs- yet how
like a palm tree in the state of
Oregon... dead
ere it blossomed, like a snow polar
loping the
Miami --
How so that which
you were or hoped to be, and the
America not, the America you saw
yet could
not see
So like yet
unlike the ground from which you stemmed+ADs-
you stood upon America like a
rootless
flat-bottomed tree+ADs- to the
squirrel there was no
divorcement in its hop of ground to
its climb of
tree... until it saw no acorn fall,
then it knew
there was no marriage between the
two+ADs- how
fruitless, how useless, the sad
unnaturalness
of nature+ADs- no wonder the dawn
ceased being
a joy... for what good the earth
and sun when
the tree in between is good for
nothing... the
inseparable trinity, once
dissevered, becomes a
cold fruitless meaningless
thrice-marked
deathlie in its awful amputation...
O butcher
the pork-chop is not the pig -- the
American
alien in America is a bitter
truncationa+ADs- and even
this elegy dear Jack. shall have a
butchered
tree, a tree beaten to a pulp, upon
which it'll be
contained -- no wonder no good news
can be
written on such bad news --
How alien the
natural home, aye, aye, how dies the tree
when the ground is foreign, cold,
unfree -- The
winds know not to blow the seed of
the
Redwood where none before had
stood+ADs- no palm is
blown to Oregon, how wise the wind
-- Wise
too the senders of the prophet...
knowing the
fertility of the designated spot
where suchmeant
prophecy be announced and answerable -- the
sower of wheat does no sow in teh
fields of
cane+ADs- for the sender of the
voice did also send the ear.
And were little Liechtenstein, and
not
America, the designation.... surely
then we'd
the tongues of Liechtenstein --
Was not so much
our finding America as it was America
finding its voice in us+ADs- many
spoke to America
as though America by land-right was
theirs by
law-right legistlatively acquired
by materialistic
coups of wealth and
inheritance+ADs- like the citizen
of society believes himself the
owner of society,
and what he makes of himself he
makes of
America and thus when he speaks of
America
he speaks of himself, and quite
often, such a he
is duly elected to represent what he represents...
an infernal ego of America
Thus many a
patriot speaks lovingly of himself when he
speaks of America, and not to
appreciate him is
no to appreciate America, and vice
versa
The tongue of
truth is the true tongue of America, and it
could not be in the +ACI-Daily
Heralds+ACI- since
the voice therein was a controlled
voice.
wickedly opinionated, and directed
at gullible
No wonder we
found ourselves rootless... for we've become
the very roots themselves -- the
lie can never
take root and there grow under a
truth of sun
and therefrom ber the fruit of
truth
Alas, Jack, seems
I cannot requiem the without
requieming America, and that's one
requiem
I shall not presume, for as long as
I live there'll
be no requiems for me
For though the
tree dies the tree id born anew, only until
the tree dies forever and never a
tree born
anew... shall the ground die too
Yours the eyes
that saw, the heart that felt, the voice that
sang and cried+ADs- and as long as
America shall
live, though ye old Kerouac body
hath died,
yet shall you live... for indeed
ours was a time
of prophecy wiithout death as a
consequence...
for indeed after us came assassins,
and who'll doubt thy last words,
+ACI-After me...
the deluge+ACI-
Ah, but were it a
matter of season I'd not doubt the return
of the tree, for what good the
ground upon
which we stand itself unable to
stand -- aye the
tree will seasonal time fall, for
it be nature's
wont, that's why the ground, the
down, the slow
yet sure decompostion, until the
very tree
becomes the very ground where once
it stood+ADs-
yet falls the ground... ah then
what?
unanswerable this be unto nature,
for there is
no ground whereon to fall and land,
no down,
no up even, directionless. and into
what, if what,
compostion goeth its decomposition?
We came to
announce the human spirit in the name of
beauty and truth+ADs- now this
spirit cries out in
nature's sake the horrendous
imbalance of all
things natural... elusive nature
caught+ACE- like a
bird in hand, harnessed and
engineered in the
unevolutional ways of experimetn
and technique
Yes though the
tree has taken root in the ground the ground
is upturned and in this forced
vomitage is spewn
the fire miasma of fossilific trees
of death the
million-yeared pirch and grease of
a dinosauric
age dead and gone how all brought
to surface
again and made to raom the sky we
breathe in
stampedes of pollution
What hope for the
America so embodied in thee, O friend,
when the very same alcohol that
disembodied
your brother redman of his America
disembodied ye -- A plot to grab
their land, we
know, yet what plot to grab the
ungrabbable
land of one's spirit? Thy visionary America were
impossible to unvision -- for when
the shades of
the windows of the spirit are brought
down, that
which was seen yet remains... the
eyes of the
spirit yet see
Aye the America
so embodied in thee, so definitely rooted
therefrom, is the living embodiment
of all
humanity, young and free
And though the
great redemptive tree blooms, not yet full,
not yet entirely sure, there be the
darksters, sad
sad and old, would like to have it
fall+ADs- they hack
and shop and saw away... that
nothing full
and young and free for sure be left to
stand at
all
Verily were such
a tree as youth be... were such be made
to fall, and never rise again, then
shall
the ground fall, and the deluge
come and wash
it asunder, wholly all and forever, like a
wind
out of nowhere into nowhere
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:07:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:46 PM
2/3/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>From TKQ
>>All
existing biographies do not even remotely grasp the depth of Kerouac's
>>persona,
genius, character, etc.
>
>and on . . .
>
>Claptrap from
a youngster. Fortunately it was only an
e-mail . . . and not
>500 pages.
>
I can prove what
I say because I have researched 500 pages worth of material
( not counting
what was discarded). What is the source of your "claptrap"?
Because you think
me a youngster, that may be, it may not be, that stement
of yours is
irellevant, but what does the views of a "youngster" have to do
with recognizing
K. as a genius? My statements are to the effect that for
the most part,
biographies up to now have remained largely adulatory in
their tone, but
not mature in taking K. as a serious writer, architect of
new style of
consciousness-description, but also hugely capable of character
flaws like
everybody else. What biography can you show me that is accurately
documented with
solid proof on every page?
Your dismissal is largely condescending in
nature and biased in attitude.
I can make an
honest assessment because I researched my work and I have the
background for
it. What is yours? Paul...
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
zman1956@postoffice.bellatlantic.net
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:09:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Zarra
<zman1956@BELLATLANTIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane,
Nice post on
VISIONS OF GERARD.
<html>
<font face="Lucian
BT" size=3>John J Zarra Jr</font></html>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:24:52 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Brinkley's Kerouac bio
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>At 07:46 PM
2/3/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>From
TKQ
>>>All
existing biographies do not even remotely grasp the depth of Kerouac's
>>>persona,
genius, character, etc.
>>
>>and on .
. .
>>
>>Claptrap
from a youngster. Fortunately it was
only an e-mail . . . and not
>>500
pages.
>>
>
>I can prove
what I say because I have researched 500 pages worth of material
>( not
counting what was discarded). What is the source of your "claptrap"?
>Because you
think me a youngster, that may be, it may not be, that stement
>of yours is
irellevant, but what does the views of a "youngster" have to do
>with
recognizing K. as a genius? My statements are to the effect that for
>the most
part, biographies up to now have remained largely adulatory in
>their tone,
but not mature in taking K. as a serious writer, architect of
>new style of
consciousness-description, but also hugely capable of character
>flaws like
everybody else. What biography can you show me that is accurately
>documented
with solid proof on every page?
> Your dismissal is largely condescending in nature
and biased in attitude.
>I can make an
honest assessment because I researched my work and I have the
>background
for it. What is yours? Paul...
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> Henry David Thoreau
He's commenting
on the content of your post, not your age.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:58:11 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: From CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Wed
Feb 4 07:16:56 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:45:11 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Claptrap from an oldster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
V.J. Eaton wrote:
>
> Claptrap
from a youngster.
=== what makes
people like this join a Beat Generation list? What do
they want? What
are they after? What purpose do they imagine that
statements like
this one serve? Crazy, Man, Crazy. If Kerouac himself
posted to this
list he'd be ridiculed and picked apart and insulted.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.Scott Holland,
ky ky ky
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:39:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: One
(was: the WSB-Korzybski connection)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"Ceci n'est
pas une pipe."--Magritte
Cordially,
Mike Skau
On Tue, 3 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> Jeff Taylor
wrote:
> >
> > Did K
say that NO idea can be perfectly stated? If he did, he's wrong
> > about
that, too: when we say "one", we have stated the idea of the
> > number
one as perfectly as perfect can be. 1 is *exactly* 1 and
> > nothing
else.
>
>
> === oh, come
on! ....you can't possibly be serious.
>
> what IS
"one"? what IS the idea of the number one? how do you know?
> prove it.
Don't point to a book because I'll ask, how do your sources
> know? can
they prove it? how? Is one the first number? Or is it zero? I
> thought
integers were numbers, what about negative integers? How can
> there be ANY
first number with negative integers? When we say "one",
> might we be
referring not to the number so much as a person (i.e. "JSH
> is the cute
one" or "one might ask oneself")? The American Heritage
> dictionary
gives seven different distinct meanings for "one", and simply
> saying
"one" most assuredly does NOT state the idea perfectly. It only
> seems like
it if you ALREADY KNOW the idea of one. Assuming the listener
> even speaks
English. Does "Ein" have the same meaning as "One"? Does
not
> any word
have different shades of personal meanings to each person? And
> is it really
the loneliest number that we'll ever do?
>
> =-=-=-=
> jsh
> ky
> quack
> =-=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:57:19 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Jim Dimock
wrote:
>
> One passage
I noted with special
> interest was
when Gerard and Ti Jean were playing with the kitten. To
> Gerard, the
way we treat others, especially those at our mercy,
> determine
> whether we
are deserving of Heaven. This seems to be a theme throughout
> the Duluoz
legend, but is sidetracked by the introduction of Cody
> (Cassady),
who only to lives for himself. It would seem that the two
> approaches
to life are at odds, and the older Kerouac tried to restore
> his earlier
beliefs while down playing the self-indulgences of his
> adult years.
I can see this
too. Gerard's view of the "way we
treat others" theme
also really stood
out for me in this passage where he is in confession
and he says,
"'My father,
I confess that I pushed a little boy be because he made me
mad.'
'Did you hurt
him?'
'No--but I hurt
his heart.'
The priest is
amazed to hear the refinement of it, the hairsplitting
elegant point of
it, ('He'll make a priest' he inner grins)."
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:10:25 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: WSB HUNCE AND JUNK
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i've been
following this thread, and thought that some source material
may be helpful to
all:
this is from
ed morgans bio, ,_literary outlaw_ p 119
"they
(huncke and fellow junkies) were back on henry street and
desperate for
junk, when one day in jannuary 1946 bernie barker dropped
by and said
"jesus, good to see you. man, i've got guy lined up , dowing
to be straight
down tonight, i want you to tell me what you think of
him. he
approached me the other day. he's been coming to the drugstore
quite
regregularly, and he's been taling of capers of one sort and
other. he just
told me that he has a sawed-off shot gun with an
automatic pistol
cartridge and some morphine syrettes that he wants to
get rid of "
that sounded good to phil and herbert.
morphine syrettes,
the kind that are
little toothpaste tubes with a neeedle sticking out,
were what they'd
been using on the ship.
pg 120-121:
the evening that
burroughs showed up on henry street, huncke sawa tall
thin man in the
doorway wearing a chesterfield coat and a grey snap-brim
hat, gloves
clutched in one hand. he thought burroughs was the police.
he asked barker
to step into the bedroom and said, 'who is this guy, he
looks like
trouble.' bernie vouched for him, and when they came back
into the kitchen,
burroughs and phil white were discussing the syrettes.
but huncke was
still suspicious and said, 'i don't think i want to
bother, really.'
phil, however, was interested and said he would be in
touch.
p 121
a few days later,
burroughs used one of the syrettes and had his first
experience with
junk. he wanted to see what it was like, as he had done
so with the
chloral hydrate at los alamos, in the spirit of general
inquiry. also, it
seemed the thing to do as far as being a criminal was
concerned. using
junk made him part of the group, it was a sort of rite
of passage.
Finally, there was in burroughs the spirit of the
self-mutilating
scientist that the opium addict writer thomas de quincey
described iin his
_confessions_".....
121
morphing was like
nothing burroughs had ever known. he had the feeling
of moving off the
ground at great speed. he seemed to be floating, as a
wave of pleasure
spread through his tissues. this was followed by a
feeling of fear
and the vision of a neon -lit cocktail lounge, and a
waitress coming
in with a skull on a tray.
'i don't want
your fuckin' skull,' burroughs found himself saying, 'take
it back.'
a few days later,
when phil white came to buy, at four dollars a box,
burroughs laid
him out 10 boxes of syrettes and kept two saying 'these
are for me' phil
looked up, surprised. 'you use it?'
now and then, burroughs
said "its bad stuff phil said shaking his head.
'the worst thing
that can hapen to a man.'
soon burroughs
was buying syrittes from phil, but at a higher price.
often, they would
shoot up together. ....
phil introduced
burroughs to a doctor on 102nd st off broadway, who
would fill
prescriptions. burroughs also started hanging out at the
angler bare on
8th avenue near forty second st, where huncke was often
to be found.
overcoming his suspicion, huncke permitted
122
burroughs to buy
himn drinks and meals-he stil had him inned for a
mark..
sources:burroughs
meets huncke: interview with author, burroughs
archive, lawrence
kansas
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:06:24 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
claptrap
\'klap-,trap\ n : pretentious nonsense
A fabulous word.
Joycean. I'll use it. Thanks.
-jwh
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:31:09 CST6CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Frank O'Brien
<FMO9287@CUB.UCA.EDU>
Organization:
University of Central Arkansas
Subject: Jane!!!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I really hate to
fill-up the list serve with this trivial nonesense,
but my computer's
hard drive sought to escape the tedium of samsara
and achieved
nirvana by way of a hard drive crash. I
need to get the
instructions on
how to get off this list serve.
Blessings, Peace,
& Love
OB
Frank O'Brien
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:19:28 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jo grant wrote:
>
> Sometimes
the truth is uncomfortable. Read it and forget it.
=== What is
truth? On second thought, no, don't answer that. Please. I'm
not making any
judgment about the veracity of Eaton's post, I'm simply
saying the way he
said it was obnoxious and stupid. As long as such crap
is sent to the
whole list, and thus my mailbox, I will not just "read it
and forget
it". If someone wants to post insults and personal attacks,
let them do it
offlist, and not waste everyone's else's time and
bandwidth.
Maybe this list
should split into two lists - one for sincere
proto-Beats,
students, and interested folks on ye olde eternal search
for truth, and
one for the jaded, petulant grouches and their
apologists, who
seem to think they already have a lock on truth,
beentheredonethat,
yadayadayada, "claptrap from a youngster", indeed,
can't ya just see
some old Dickensian blowhard character slumped in his
armchair saying
that? Needs a "harrumph" at the end, though. And maybe a
wet hacking
cough.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.Scott Holland.
ky.
dreaming of
oatmeal.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:21:51 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"what is the
work? to ease the suffering. all else drunken dumbshow"
AG
please, everyone,
do we have to continually split off into name calling and
petulance (not
just you, jeffrey).
we're all here
because we have an interest in things and people beat. but
that doesn't mean
that we are all in synch, age or attitude wise.
mc
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:(snipped)
> Maybe this
list should split into two lists - one for sincere
> proto-Beats,
students, and interested folks on ye olde eternal search
> for truth,
and one for the jaded, petulant grouches and their
> apologists,
who seem to think they already have a lock on truth,
>
beentheredonethat, yadayadayada, "claptrap from a youngster", indeed,
> can't ya
just see some old Dickensian blowhard character slumped in his
> armchair
saying that? Needs a "harrumph" at the end, though. And maybe a
> wet hacking
cough.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.Scott
Holland. ky.
> dreaming of
oatmeal.
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:23:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or ! -ps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
or knowledge.
we all bring
something here to the table. just wish we could sit down and
really enjoy the
potluck.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:24:27 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Nice try
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Damn. I have
again failed to secure a gig playing solo guitar
at KEROUAC
JACK'S, a restaurant here in Chicago. They said my
demo tape was
very nice, but they're looking for a funk/jazz
group nowadays.
Oh well.
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:52:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: new reading venue
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
just found out
that there is a coffee shop already in montpelier. for
the veggie
gourmets, you may have heard of 'horn of the moon' cafe; on
monday nights
there are spoken word and music : my first booking is for
march 2.
waaahooo
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-MD5:
XQMyfBUYR2Tm0bHHXSMsuA==
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:50:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao
<nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Re: One
(was: the WSB-Korzybski connection)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yes Jeff the
arbitrary meaning of a sign is true (which is why
Ein may very well
mean the same as One being basically
different
representations of ther same morpheme)
But it becomes
difficult to explain what 1 is if the only
medium is
language, which is what I think was WSB's point:
that language
inhibits us from fully understanding the world
and in fact
limits our ability to develop new concepts. Can we
think without
language ?
Is 1 the opposite
of many or the opposite of nothing ?
And explaining 1
as a number which represents perfect
singularity seems
similar to the explanation of 'blue' as a
color that is
blue, not much of a clarification to be sure.
Nicolai Pharao
nicpha@cphling.dk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:11:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: shit
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the midst of
trying to up date my private email to create list for
sending poetry
not beat to the list, i cleared out my entire address
book.
i'm going mad -
this is my connection to the world right now. shit.
please, everyone
who corresponds with me, send me a private note, test,
will do fine, so
i can get you all back.
and some who have
left list are gone forever.
it's been a bitch
of a week; i've lost friends who have lost their
minds, i'm all
torn up.
this is sincere,
please help
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:49:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>V.J. Eaton
wrote:
>>
>> Claptrap
from a youngster.
>
J.Scott Holland
wrote:
>=== what
makes people like this join a Beat Generation list? What do
>they want?
What are they after? What purpose do they imagine that
>statements
like this one serve? Crazy, Man, Crazy. If Kerouac himself
>posted to
this list he'd be ridiculed and picked apart and insulted.
Possibly...
Steam of
consciousness ? From the heart ? Feel it and write it ?
True ? Eaton
seems to think it is.
True to you?
Obviosly not.
Sometimes the
truth is uncomfortable. Read it and forget it.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:57:48 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: One
(was: the WSB-Korzybski connection)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It's at least
impressive that this argument about "one" is
following exactly
the course of the major philosophical argument
of modern western
culture. As I understood it when I
studied this
stuff years ago,
there was a two-century-or-so long flame war
between the
contintental Rationalists (mainly Descartes, Spinoza
and Leibniz) and
the British Empiricists (mainly Locke, Berkeley
and Hume) that
centered on the question of what can be known
with
certainty. The opening argument in this
thread was
Descartes
"Meditations" in which he stated that the one
rockbottom
certainty was "I think therefore I am", and then
he went a little
bit further out on a limb by proving that
God exists. His proof didn't hold up (which is not to
say, of course,
that anybody proved that God *didn't* exist
either) -- but in
any case after many many more treatises
were written the
argument settled on the question: can't
we at least say
that we understand mathematical concepts --
theoretical
concepts, like "one" -- with certainty?
As I remember it,
Immanuel Kant is generally said to have
come up with the
best answer to this question, and it's
something along
the lines of "sort of." In a
way this
whole argument
spelled the death of the rationalistic
approach to
philosophy, giving way to the more creative
and speculative
fields of Existential philosophy, Freudian
psychology,
cognitive science, analytic (language-oriented)
philosophy, etc.
I could discuss
this stuff all day, but I suppose in the
interests of
keeping this a Beat list it might be a good
idea for anybody
who wants to know whether the concept
"one"
can be understood should read Immanuel Kant's
"Critique of
Pure Reason" for the long version of the
answer. And I guess we really ought to get back to
talking about
beat writing.
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
| |
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.35]
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:18:38 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap AND something else
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>From
owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Wed Feb 4
08:07:52 1998
>Received:
from listserv (128.228.100.10) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP
for Windows NT
v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.84FD58B0@listserv.cuny.edu>; Wed,
4 Feb 1998
11:03:27 -0500
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release
1.8c) with
> NJE id 9981 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Wed, 4 Feb 1998
10:49:25 -0500
>Received:
from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP3@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(LMail
> V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 1079; Wed,
4 Feb 1998 10:48:16
-0500
>Received: from
mail.cinetwork.com by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4)
with
> TCP; Wed, 04 Feb 98 10:48:16 EST
>Received:
from [205.184.221.117] by mail.cinetwork.com (NTMail
> 3.03.0013/1.acq4) with ESMTP id
oa148084 for
> <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>; Wed,
4 Feb 1998 10:51:29 -0500
>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>MIME-Version:
1.0
>References:
<199802040246.TAA11631@smtp03.primenet.com>
>
<v03110700b0fddb8afd13@[156.46.222.38]>
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>Message-ID: <34D8486F.3C7D@iclub.org>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:19:28 +0100
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
>Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>jo grant
wrote:
>
>>
>>
Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable. Read it and forget it.
>
>
>=== What is
truth? On second thought, no, don't answer that. Please.
I'm
>not making
any judgment about the veracity of Eaton's post, I'm simply
>saying the
way he said it was obnoxious and stupid. As long as such
crap
>is sent to
the whole list, and thus my mailbox, I will not just "read
it
>and forget
it". If someone wants to post insults and personal attacks,
>let them do
it offlist, and not waste everyone's else's time and
>bandwidth.
>
>Maybe this
list should split into two lists - one for sincere
>proto-Beats,
students, and interested folks on ye olde eternal search
>for truth,
and one for the jaded, petulant grouches and their
>apologists,
who seem to think they already have a lock on truth,
>beentheredonethat,
yadayadayada, "claptrap from a youngster", indeed,
>can't ya just
see some old Dickensian blowhard character slumped in his
>armchair
saying that? Needs a "harrumph" at the end, though. And maybe
a
>wet hacking
cough.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>J.Scott
Holland. ky.
>dreaming of
oatmeal.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
*julian laughs in
little giggles...*
i like this
guy...
anyway...
I have
a few beat questions....
I. Kicks Joy Darkness
a> What is the
source of the title...? Pardn my naiveity but i honestly
don't know....
b> Kerouac
speaks of Sangsara...what is that?
c> On track
five, hunter s. thompson reads a poem of jack's...and the
last line says
something in latin...
"ad
aspera..." something something something...I don't have the text
with me right
now...
Those of you who do have it...do you know what
it means?...
d> and
finally...
Do you think Jack would have approved of this
rendition of his
poetry?...i
mean...i found very little jazz involved...don't get me
wrong i love the
cd...but there's a lot of...well...noise going on in
the background of
some of them....and whereas he probably wouldn't
mind...some
artists even changed his words around....
sorry if this is too much to ask replies to at
once...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
RAA26168
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:00:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: beat dad(rising from the wreckage of my
disk
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
my father's eyes
(first draft)
received in mail
today
photos of my
father:
taken by his
present wife
down in VA
hospice, florida
empty eyed, he
stares
restrained and
wheel chair bound
into the camera's
lens
impersonally.
my father's eyes are so vacant-
beyond 'light's
on nobody home'
just a feeble
naked porch light
slowly burning
out
this is my
childhood all over again-
when my father
was mostly vacant.
coming home long
past dinner time
his smoky whiskey
smells
as frightening as
my mother's rage
to which he
turned his back and left-
vacant once
again.
my father was a
tin man,
traveling
salesman,a con,
who refused to be
a nine to fiver
choosing a living
on the road
to keep him
family-free.
this man, who
picked me up from bus
circa '68
having, like him,
fled family
only to return to
house
and told me
confidentially,
'if i had it all
to do over, i wouldn't'
(annihilating
me.)
the last time i
saw my father
we fought - over
what, i can't recall-
i locked myself
up in my truck
but lacking
ignition keys,
was stuck,
locked up, unable
to leave.
he cried and
begged forgiveness, and
as i unlocked the
door,
crawling in
he sprawled all
over me,
crying and
begging ,
in such a way,
that
brought further
distance yet.
estranged these
past four years
i moved up
country,
he moved down-
thinking always
there would be time
for love
unencumbered,
unhinged from
childhood pain-
and of course
there never was.
now he stares out
at no one
in this photo
sent to me
by his current
wife,
who wrote and
asked
didn't i know
he carried always
in his billfold
pictures of mom
and me?
my answer, a
sigh, a no,
he told so little
to me
and now so little
is left,
leaving
only his vacant
stare,
no connection,
just hollow pain
and again the
wish to flee
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:36:25 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: WSB-Huncke connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie, thanks for
posting this; it seems to me to clearly show that WSB
didn't do the
junk with Huncke - Huncke is suspicious of WSB and turns
down his offer to
buy WSB's syrettes. "a few days later, Burroughs used
one of the
syrettes and had his first experience with junk." Since
Huncke is still
suspicious of him, surely he wasn't around and surely
Morgan would have
mentioned it.
That, I thought,
was that.... until I just happened to be looking at the
picture of Huncke
in the book and the caption describes him as "one of
the Times Square
hustlers who introduced Burroughs to drugs"! So what
the heck?!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeff Holland KY
arf arf arf
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vansljl@mallard2
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:37:37 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jessica L Vanslooten <vansljl@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject: beats and post/modernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi all! i too
find the placement of the beats within the
modernism/postmodernism
continuum interesting... i think some of the major
tenets of
modernism are stream of consciousness style (like woolf and
joyce) along with
a concern of capturing certain moments or moods or
things. woolf's
language attempts to capture the psychological progression
of time...i'm
thinking of a scene in *to the lighthouse* where woolf
captures a dinner
party, the psychological moments of the participants and
how as soon as we
move out of the moment it's in the past. and then you
have people like
william carlos williams who argues for "no ideas but in
things..."
i, too, find postmodernism
difficult to pin down...but it seems to me the
focus is on the
fragmentary nature of life, how things can be pulled
apart, how our
lives are increasingly defined by multiple sources and
lacking a stable
center...and one thing particularly interesting is the
way postmodern
fiction tries to break down boundaries and genres, how it
comments on its
own fictionality...
seems to me like
some of the things the modernists were doing verged on
postmodernism but
maybe because they wrote before the world wars, they
still had a
stable world view?!? and i think kerouac and company
definately took
some of the modernist ideas and pushed them into
postmodern
territory--kerouac's style works against given genres
and he focuses on
the immediacy of moments (i think of that great
description of
riding in the back of the pickup truck in *on the
road*) and also
interweaves religions...then again sometimes i think these
terms are so
random and arbitrary... the irony of categorizing something
as postmodern is
that postmodernism itself would argue against one stable
category.
--jessica
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:52:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jo grant wrote:
> Is "Eat
me motherfucker" a Beat term?
=== Any cussin'
is a Beat term.
=-=-=-=
JSH
eatin'
snow
=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:10:28 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Post/Modernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Zucchini4@AOL.COM
wrote:
>
> hey
everybody. SO today, I took up (again)
what is turning out to be my
> eternal
quest for the meaning of "post modernism"-- seems no matter how much
I
> read, it
just gets more confusing....And then I decided to start w/ modernism,
> which was
worse. The article I was reading mentioned every type of literature
> created in
the first half of this century, and I had thought it was more of a
> philosophy
than a time period, even though the two are closely linked.
>
> Anyway- one
of the major characteristics of modernism, in fact, the first one
> listed, is
"stream of conciousness" writing. And of course, no mention of
> Keroauc or
any other Beat-type, when it always seemed to me that they had
> played a big
part in developing this as a technique.
>
> So I'm
basicly asking for any input/ideas about modernism or postmodernism in
> general, and
how the beats relate to either of these topics. I'm a little
> lost, and I
thought, who better to ask? :)
>
> --Stephanie
actually, i am no
expert on the subject, but a while ago i attended a
short feminist
lecture about post-modernism (feminists claim that there
is a close
connection between the two). the literature that was
suggested was the
following:
(i don't know the
names of most of the books, but i guess that won't be
a problem)
Frederick Jameson
- Postmodern
Linda Hutchin
Bryan McHalle
Cvetan Todorov (a
Bulgarian author, don't know if this is the correct
spelling) -
Fantastic
the difference,
as i gathered was in this:
realism tries to
reflect reality; modernism believes that you can't know
the world from
reality, so it turns to the psyche and constructs a new
world in the
mind. the questions modernism poses are what is the world
like and how we
learn about it. postmodernism asks which world this is.
it introduces the
term 'possible worlds' (which has a lot to do with
modern physics -
schrodinger's cat for example), as this is only one of
them. due to
this, the reader starts playing a more significant role as
he is part of the
creation as well. there is also the weakening of the
subject included
in writing.
i think that
umberto ecco wrote on the subject as well.
not very much,
but i hope the books will help.
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:55:11 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: the WSB-Korzybski cxonnection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Mathematics is
unthinkable without either/or logic.
actually, not
quite. when classical mathematics started to fall apart at
the beginning of
the century (contradictions in the set theory) among
the new
approaches that emerged was intuitionism (founded by brower).
this theory
doesn't allow proofs starting with "assume that it is not
so", because
there aren't just two possibilities: either is or is not.
there are many
other possibilities as well. you prove that such and such
numeb exists only
if you construct it.
another example
is fuzzy logic.
not even to
mention the examples physics has to offer.
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:56:28 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB-Huncke connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
go figger. but
i'd rather trust archives of wsb over any foto caption.
mc
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> Marie,
thanks for posting this; it seems to me to clearly show that WSB
> didn't do
the junk with Huncke - Huncke is suspicious of WSB and turns
> down his
offer to buy WSB's syrettes. "a few days later, Burroughs used
> one of the
syrettes and had his first experience with junk." Since
> Huncke is
still suspicious of him, surely he wasn't around and surely
> Morgan would
have mentioned it.
>
> That, I
thought, was that.... until I just happened to be looking at the
> picture of
Huncke in the book and the caption describes him as "one of
> the Times
Square hustlers who introduced Burroughs to drugs"! So what
> the heck?!
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeff Holland
KY arf arf arf
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:43:35 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: A Thoughtful Pause
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
dawn
try el
chapultapec, right off larimer, towards the railroad tracks, the
boys usta hang
there, too
denver's one of
the most beautiful places on the planet
tkc
Dawn Zarubnicky
wrote:
>
..snip...
>
> Regarding
James Baldwin. According to Dan
Wakefield's _New York in the
> 1950's_
Baldwin was not very fond of the beats...I don't have that text in
> front of me
either but I will post a quote on that tomorrow..
malcom x's
autobiography gives some descriptions of harlem in the 40s
that paralell
some of the beat writings
> I'm living
in Denver these days so I think tonight I'll take a drive to
> My Brother's
Bar and have a drink with the ghost of Neal Cassady...
>
> Respectfully
Melancholy,
>
> Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced
By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:54:38 -0800
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: shit
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hey girl, this is
terrible - how'd it happen????
-----Original
Message-----
From: Marie
Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wednesday,
February 04, 1998 11:22 AM
Subject: shit
>in the midst
of trying to up date my private email to create list for
>sending
poetry not beat to the list, i cleared out my entire address
>book.
>i'm going mad
- this is my connection to the world right now. shit.
>please,
everyone who corresponds with me, send me a private note, test,
>will do fine,
so i can get you all back.
>and some who
have left list are gone forever.
>it's been a
bitch of a week; i've lost friends who have lost their
>minds, i'm
all torn up.
>this is
sincere, please help
>mc
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:54:56 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: An anniversary eulogy (fwd)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thanks, levi, for
bringing our attention back to one of the big reasons we all
are here.
sad indeed.
mc
Levi Asher wrote:
> Did anybody
remember today's sad anniversary?
>
> I didn't
remember myself, but John Cassady reminded
> me with this
note (he sent it to a few friends and
> said I could
post it here). Neal Cassady died
> in Mexico
Feb 4 1968.
>
> > A sad
anniversary, but one worth noting, I think. 30 years ago today, Pop's
> > demise
in Mexico. I'll never forget sitting at the dining room table at the
> > house
on Bancroft when the phone rang that morning. It was JB from San
> > Miguel
de Allende telling my mother the news. Janice Brown was presumably
> > the
last American to see Neal alive, and she
said she would ship his ashes
> > home.
> >
> > My
mother was in shock; ashen faced and stoic, but apparently not too
> >
surprised, as she delivered the news. My sisters cried; I felt kind of numb
> > and
vaguely uncomfortable. On one hand I was relieved for him, he had been
> > in such
torment the last few years. On the other hand I felt cheated that I
> > had not
been able to say goodbye, or able to really connect with him
> >
recently. Anyone who has lost a parent knows the feeling. I had to get out
> > of the
house, this place or grief and mourning.
> >
> > I went
up into the mountains above Los Gatos, with several of my closest
> >
buddies, to a favorite redwood grove on some property that my friend's
> > father
owned. I mentioned the news to my comrades in the car, and they
> > seemed
more blown away than I was, looking at me sideways for reaction
> >
throughout the day. We drank beer and popped empty cans off a fence with a
> > 22 LR
bolt-action rifle, as 16-year-olds are wont to do when in the woods,
> > and
reflected on this amazing man.
> >
> > The
last time I saw him, he said, "Son, don't fret." And I replied,
"don't
> > YOU
fret," and meant it. But I think he took my tone the wrong way, and he
> > looked
hurt and sad as he walked away, with a recently familiar furrowed
> > brow of
pain and guilt on his face. A haunting memory, after what was to
> >
happened. Today, as I did that day thirty years ago, I wonder, "Dad, what
> > were
you going through that night? What demons possessed your mind and what
> > were
your last thoughts." I guess we'll never know. Although I'm convinced
> > that
his death was an accident on that particular night, he had been working
> > on
killing himself indirectly for decades. He was adamant in his beliefs
> >
regarding suicide, but he couldn't cheat fate forever. The party was over,
> > he was
done.
> >
> > -- John
Cassady, Feb 4 1998
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> | Levi Asher
= brooklyn@netcom.com
|
> |
|
> | Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
> | (the beat literature web site) |
> |
|
> | "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
> | (a real book, like on paper) |
> | also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
> |
|
> |
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
> |
|
> |
"Nothing is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
> | -- Joni
Mitchell |
>
---------------------------------------------------------
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: shit
Cc:
Bcc: Sherri
<love_singing@email.msn.com>
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<0e9792056200428UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com>
References:
Sherri scrive:
>hey girl,
this is terrible - how'd it happen????
Sherri maybe you notice that Rudyard Kipling loved
Vermont,
birthplace of the 'Jungle Books'...
cari saluti
dall'Italia,
Rinaldo.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
next Millenium
1) the VW loves
the Beatles and the Beetles
VolksWagen promo.
gone Millenium:
2) "After
1957 ON THE ROAD sold a trillion levis and a million expresso
coffee machines,
and also sent countless kids out on the road." -
William S. Burroughs
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correction. due
to a technical error, ten lines of the above
text are missing.
I apologize for the error.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:10:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Pater Noster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I accidently
erased that wonderful version of the "Our Father." Can whoever po
sted it send it
to me privately at wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
Thanks much.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:19:54 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Wed, 04
Feb 1998 23:08:29...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:08:29 +0100 with subject "Re: shit"
has been
successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (255 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:44:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Civil discourse
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Once again, I am
compelled to call for all of us on the list to observe
some basic rules
and to treat each other courteously and with civility.
For the health of
the list and for the protection of the rights of all
listmembers, I am
re-posting the following guidelines for discussion on
Beat-l:
1)Copyrighted material should not be posted to the list without
permission (fair
use rules applying) nor should private correspondence
be posted without
permission from the author; 2)Listmembers will not
accuse each other
of various crimes and misdemeanors on the Beat-l list
(What you do
privately is your own business.); 3) Listmembers will
refrain from
flames, character attacks, and personal insults in their
posts to Beat-l
(Again if you feel compelled to such measures please
email your
adversary directly.) Those who violate
these rules will be
subject to having
their posts blocked from the list.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:49:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Eat me
motherfucker!!!!!
>
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:59:14 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Eat me
motherfucker!!!!!
>>
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> Henry David
Thoreau
A good laugh.
I really needed
one, but I'm wondering if I missed something.
Could it be cabin fever?
What precipitated
this? Is it from a man or a woman. Do men get eaten? Is
"Eat me
motherfucker" a Beat term? If JK
had written "Eat me motherfucker"
would dhe have
capitalized Motherfucker?
jg
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:03:07 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Claptrap Revisited, Apology, and Done
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thankyou. i
suggest the rest of you go for yr penicillin shots and be done with
it all. the clap
appears to be highly contagious, and has proved itself to be
most virulent.
now let's get
back to the reason we are here, ok guys?
mc
TKQ wrote:
> At 05:51 PM
2/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >>From
TKQ (bunch of snips here) to jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM
>
>>>Eat me motherfucker!!!!!
> >
> >Remember
that youngster comment that started this?
(and BTW, it wasn't an
> >allusion
to chronological age
> >. . .
jeeesh, guys, come on here): point made, I think.
>
>____________
> >
>
>--TKQ, You're too easy a
target. I apologize. You were baited in
public
> >and have
performed predictably. Get the nouns and
verbs to stand up that
> >ego, or
a thicker skin to keep more occasionally quiet. You have a lot of
> >energy
and good ideas, but yr not a genius all the time.
> >
> >--And
the rest of you Beat-L . . . the only
return I've read that got
> >anywhere
near asking me to defend that inflammatory post came from TKQ
> >(how's
that for irony? +1 for TKQ). The rest of
you guys, if you didn't see
> >it for
the pitard it was, you shldv challenged it. --Like "Where's the
>
>scholarship on that flame, pal?"
> >
> My lucidity
constantly revals to me the secrets of the world and first of
> all to myself,
from whom it all begin. I leave nothing in the shadow of the
> phantasms
that arise, for light alone can provide my delirium with its own
> strength.
Were I to drop vigilance for one second I might be taken unaware
> by a
nightmare monster. Or by you....P.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_____________________
>
>Skydivers know why the birds sing
> >
> >V.J.
Eaton
> >Tempe,
AZ
> >
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> Henry David
Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:10:47 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: An anniversary eulogy (fwd)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Did anybody
remember today's sad anniversary?
I didn't remember
myself, but John Cassady reminded
me with this note
(he sent it to a few friends and
said I could post
it here). Neal Cassady died
in Mexico Feb 4
1968.
> A sad
anniversary, but one worth noting, I think. 30 years ago today, Pop's
> demise in
Mexico. I'll never forget sitting at the dining room table at the
> house on
Bancroft when the phone rang that morning. It was JB from San
> Miguel de
Allende telling my mother the news. Janice Brown was presumably
> the last
American to see Neal alive, and she said
she would ship his ashes
> home.
>
> My mother
was in shock; ashen faced and stoic, but apparently not too
> surprised,
as she delivered the news. My sisters cried; I felt kind of numb
> and vaguely
uncomfortable. On one hand I was relieved for him, he had been
> in such
torment the last few years. On the other hand I felt cheated that I
> had not been
able to say goodbye, or able to really connect with him
> recently.
Anyone who has lost a parent knows the feeling. I had to get out
> of the
house, this place or grief and mourning.
>
> I went up
into the mountains above Los Gatos, with several of my closest
> buddies, to
a favorite redwood grove on some property that my friend's
> father
owned. I mentioned the news to my comrades in the car, and they
> seemed more
blown away than I was, looking at me sideways for reaction
> throughout
the day. We drank beer and popped empty cans off a fence with a
> 22 LR
bolt-action rifle, as 16-year-olds are wont to do when in the woods,
> and
reflected on this amazing man.
>
> The last
time I saw him, he said, "Son, don't fret." And I replied,
"don't
> YOU
fret," and meant it. But I think he took my tone the wrong way, and he
> looked hurt
and sad as he walked away, with a recently familiar furrowed
> brow of pain
and guilt on his face. A haunting memory, after what was to
> happened.
Today, as I did that day thirty years ago, I wonder, "Dad, what
> were you
going through that night? What demons possessed your mind and what
> were your
last thoughts." I guess we'll never know. Although I'm convinced
> that his
death was an accident on that particular night, he had been working
> on killing
himself indirectly for decades. He was adamant in his beliefs
> regarding
suicide, but he couldn't cheat fate forever. The party was over,
> he was done.
>
> -- John
Cassady, Feb 4 1998
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
XAA24518
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:28:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: A Thoughtful Pause/draft two
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
dawn, thankyou
for your kind words. i never know whether to post my pomes in
progress to the
list (the line is murky between scholars and poets) and was
trying to put
together a poem cc: for friends here who have the interest and
patience to
suffer my birth pangs. i agree wholeheartely with what you have
said; this
unfortunately happens time and again here. i'm not sure why. beat or
not beat, i would
like to send out draft 2 of my pome. those of you on the list
who would like to
be cc:'d (when i figger out how to do such technical things)
please send me yr
private email address.
so
draft #2:
my father's eyes
(first draft)
delivered in the
mail today
were photos of my
father:
taken by his
present wife
in VA hospice,
florida
empty eyed, he
stares
restrained and
wheel chair bound
into the camera's
impersonal lens
just as
impersonally
forget about
'light's on nobody home'
his is just
anaked porch light,
slowly burning
out.
my childhood
begins all over again-
when my father
was mostly vacant.
coming home long
past dinner
his smoky whiskey
smells
trailing vapors
back into the night,
to ignore my mother's rage:
vacant just once
more.
my father was a
tin man,
traveling
salesman,a con,
who chose a
living on the road
to keep him
family-free.
this man, who
picked me up from bus
circa '68
having, like him,
fled the house
only to return
again
who told me
confidentially,
'if i had to do
over, i wouldn't'
(thus
annihilating me.)
the last time i
saw my father
we fought - over
what, i can't recall-
i locked myself
up in my truck
but lacking
ignition keys,
was stuck,
locked up, unable
to leave.
he cried and
begged forgiveness, and
as i unlocked the
door,
crawling in
he sprawled all
over me,
memories of bad
things pricking me
that
brought further
distance yet.
estranged these
past four years
i moved up
country,
he moved down-
thinking there
would be more time
for love
unencumbered,
from childhood pain-
(and of course
there never was).
now he stares at
no one
in this photo
sent to me
by his current
wife,
who wrote and
asked,
didn't i know
he carried always
in his billfold
pictures of mom
and me?
my answer, a
sigh, a no,
he told so little
to me
and now so little
is left,
leaving
vacancy-
no connection,
just a hollow
pain
and again the
wish to flee
(c) 2/4/98
Dawn Zarubnicky
wrote:
> I just
returned to this list after about an 8 month absence...
> The majority
of my memories of this list are good ones....
> lively
discussions and thoughtful exchanges on Beat related works...
> postings of
original poetry and prose...a source for any of us writing
> papers in
hopes of bouncing some ideas off one another...a place to turn
> when we lose
someone dear to us (Allen, Bill, Jerry)...I've laughed at
> some posts
and cried when someone poured their heart out in cyberspace.
>
> What I am
asking everyone to do is to remember that there is another
> person with
feelings and a heart on the other end.
Feel free to disagree..
> but disagree
respectfully. Everyone is allowed an
opinion...Most of
> the time
that is all that is being posted here......OPINIONS....
>
> Today alone
there were some interesting posts that were virtually
> ignored in
favor of the "eat me" post.
The James Baldwin post/the questions
> regarding
KicksJoyDarkness......and the dual father images...Marie's
> heart
wrenching, beautiful poem (Marie...I can relate..I haven't spoken
> to my father
in about 15 years..it is too painful) coupled with Levi's
> post from
Neal's son....
>
> I'm hoping
that a rejoined the Beat-L during a bad period and the situation
> will
improve. I cringe when what should be an
open minded forum for an
> intelligent
exchange of ideas needs reminder notices from Bill to keep
> it in line.
>
> Whoever
asked....KicksJoyDarkness is from _On the Road_...I believe when
> Neal and
Jack go out clubbing to the jazz clubs in SF ( I don't have the
> text in
front of me).
>
> Regarding
James Baldwin. According to Dan
Wakefield's _New York in the
> 1950's_
Baldwin was not very fond of the beats...I don't have that text in
> front of me
either but I will post a quote on that tomorrow..
>
> I'm living
in Denver these days so I think tonight I'll take a drive to
> My Brother's
Bar and have a drink with the ghost of Neal Cassady...
>
> Respectfully
Melancholy,
>
> Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:36:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Even such paltry
utterances exist as pearls before swine Mr. Grant...P.
>
>
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:03:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: One
(was: the WSB-Korzybski connection)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have two things
I want to say about this debate.1)The number one like
all numbers is
not an objective reality but a subjective concept!
This whole
notation inner concepts and outer reality comes from Plato's
works,2) In
nature some things follow either/or and some either/and,i.e.
light is a wave
and a particle but hypnosis is either altered state or
just fantasy
playing.Choseing between either/or and either/and is an
either/or itself.
I think I better stop.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:04:31 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>jo grant
wrote:
>
>> Is
"Eat me motherfucker" a Beat term?
>
>
>=== Any
cussin' is a Beat term.
>
>=-=-=-=
>JSH
>eatin'
>snow
HOPEFULLY not the
yellow snow.
jg
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:36:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
DO YOU MIND?!
On Wed, 4 Feb
1998, TKQ wrote:
> Eat me
motherfucker!!!!!
> >
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> Henry David Thoreau
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:40:35 -0700
Reply-To: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: derek's new email address
Comments: To:
derek beaulieu <derek.beaulieu@fluordaniel.com>,
keith beaulieu
<kfbeauli@acs.ucalgary.ca>,
kathy taxbock
<kataxboc@acs.ucalgary.ca>,
courtney thompson
<cfthomps@cadvision.com>,
antoine maloney
<stratis@odyssee.net>,
marie countryman
<country@sover.net>,
carolyn fyffe
<cfyffe@acs.ucalgary.ca>,
david esteban
<djesteba@acs.ucalgary.ca>,
christine payne
<cmpayne@acs.ucalgary.ca>,
bohemian literature listserv
<bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>,
neil hennessy
<nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>, james gardner <jag@rahul.net>,
adrien begrand
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>,
lynn legge
<llegge@proteksys.com>,
marshall mccullough
<mmccullo@smaug.devry.ca>,
waterrow books
<waterrow@aol.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
yall
i just thought
that i would inform that my email address has changed from
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
to
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
thanks!
yoohooo!
derek
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
AAA09262
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:49:21 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: beat dad, version 3
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
excuses to all
who do not like this list as pome forum: i am trying to
boiler plate a
cc: to those who do.
mc
my father's eyes
delivered in the
mail today
were photos of my
father:
taken by his
present wife
in VA hospice,
Florida.
empty eyed, he
stares,
restrained and
wheel chair
bound,
looking slack
jawed in the camera's lens
oblivious as the
shutter snaps,
his consciousness
a naked bulb-
waning,
burning out.
my childhood
begins all over again-
when my father
was mostly vacant.
coming home long
past dinner
smelling of smoke
and whiskey fumes
only to turn,
and leave again,
to escape my mother's rage:
vacant just once
more.
my father was a
tin man,
traveling
salesman,a con,
who chose a
living on the road
to keep him
family-free.
this man, who
picked me up from bus
circa '68
having, like him,
fled the house
only to return.
who told me
confidentially,
'if i had to do
over, i never would,'
(thus
annihilating me.)
the last time i
saw my father
we fought - over
what, i can't recall-
i locked myself
up in my truck
but lacking
ignition keys,
was stuck,
locked up, unable
to leave.
he cried and
begged forgiveness, and
as i unlocked the
door,
crawling in
he sprawled all
over me,
sparking memories
of bad things in me
that further
distance brought.
estranged for all
these past four years
i moved up north
country,
as he moved south-
thinking there
would be more time
for love
unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course
there never was).
now he stares at
no one
in this photo
sent to me
by his current
wife,
who wrote and
asked,
how was it that i
didn't i know
he carried always
in billfold
snap shots of mom
and me?
my answer, a
sigh, a no,
he told so little
to me
and now so little
is left,
leaving
vacancy-
no connection,
just a hollow
pain
and again the
wish to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:50:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 05:49 PM
2/4/98 -0500, Henry David Thoreau wrote:
>Eat me
motherfucker!!!!!
"Don't for
heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense!
But you must pay
attention to your nonsense."
Ludwig
Wittgenstein _Culture and Value_
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vj@pop.primenet.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:51:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Claptrap Revisited, Apology, and Done
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>From TKQ
(bunch of snips here) to jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM
>>Eat me
motherfucker!!!!!
Remember that
youngster comment that started this?
(and BTW, it wasn't an
allusion to
chronological age
. . . jeeesh,
guys, come on here): point made, I think.
____________
--TKQ, You're too easy a target. I apologize. You were baited in public
and have
performed predictably. Get the nouns and
verbs to stand up that
ego, or a thicker
skin to keep more occasionally quiet. You have a lot of
energy and good
ideas, but yr not a genius all the time.
--And the rest of
you Beat-L . . . the only return I've
read that got
anywhere near
asking me to defend that inflammatory post came from TKQ
(how's that for
irony? +1 for TKQ). The rest of you
guys, if you didn't see
it for the pitard
it was, you shldv challenged it. --Like "Where's the
scholarship on
that flame, pal?"
List owner Bill,
--I apologize. Guilty, intentional,
stopped.
_____________________
Skydivers know
why the birds sing
V.J. Eaton
Tempe, AZ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:10:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap-- ? or !
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:36 PM
2/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>DO YOU MIND?!
>
>On Wed, 4 Feb
1998, TKQ wrote:
>
>> Eat me
motherfucker!!!!!
>> >
>> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>>
Henry David Thoreau
>>
>
>********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>world.--Archimedes*********
>Plug it in if
U dare plug it in if U dare
This mutha****'s
so fast it eats underwear
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:39:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap Revisited, Apology, and Done
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 05:51 PM
2/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>From TKQ
(bunch of snips here) to jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM
>>>Eat
me motherfucker!!!!!
>
>Remember that
youngster comment that started this?
(and BTW, it wasn't an
>allusion to
chronological age
>. . . jeeesh,
guys, come on here): point made, I think.
>____________
>
>--TKQ, You're too easy a target. I apologize. You were baited in public
>and have
performed predictably. Get the nouns and
verbs to stand up that
>ego, or a thicker
skin to keep more occasionally quiet. You have a lot of
>energy and
good ideas, but yr not a genius all the time.
>
>--And the
rest of you Beat-L . . . the only return
I've read that got
>anywhere near
asking me to defend that inflammatory post came from TKQ
>(how's that
for irony? +1 for TKQ). The rest of you
guys, if you didn't see
>it for the
pitard it was, you shldv challenged it. --Like "Where's the
>scholarship
on that flame, pal?"
>
My lucidity
constantly revals to me the secrets of the world and first of
all to myself,
from whom it all begin. I leave nothing in the shadow of the
phantasms that
arise, for light alone can provide my delirium with its own
strength. Were I
to drop vigilance for one second I might be taken unaware
by a nightmare
monster. Or by you....P.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_____________________
>Skydivers
know why the birds sing
>
>V.J. Eaton
>Tempe, AZ
>
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:44:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TKQ <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Claptrap Revisited, Apology, and Done
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
If you don't
stand for something you'll fall for anything. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:40:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: a poem for your criticism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hello y'all,
i was trying to
chase my insomnia away one night and i wrote this poem here. i
had
put it aside and
forgotten about it, and then i came upon it today. it's not my
best writing, but
i wanted to see if i could get some criticism.
the extent of
my
beatnik knowledge
is from On the Road, but i loved it and wanted to learn more
so
here i am.
thanx to all who
respond,
Al
THe crazy clarity
of obscurity at the abnormal hour
strange thoughts
fill me at night- or rather, at the earliest of dusk.
i close my eyes
and can't sleep, siphoning the blackness for hours.
and streams, and
bits, and floods come,
and Devour
and are devoured
with speed, and quick, and lassitude
platonic passion
and the virgo is
suddenly quintessence of Virtue
the mundanes of
reality become fireballs-split
and the perfect
sphere is created.
Why can't sleep
drown me?
then
COMBUSTION
the neural
impulses jump and warp and Ffizz with electric shortsparks
and tommorrow
i'll take a bath in the morning and feel great and Grand for the
rest
of the day(but it
won't actually happen cause i'll wake up late or groggy and
forgetful
will wake me
late)and suddenly i remember when the rain came in my old house
which
was brown and
yellow i think but now it's red and i fell in love with the rain.
and i used to
watch the flash of headlights from cars cause we lived on a busy
street
hackensack st. my
room was small and the house was a two family house us
upstairs.
my room to the right after the climb to the
top of the stairs and it was tiny
i'd
fall asleep to
those headlights the shadows glide from one side of the room to
the
other and i'd
hide 'neath the porch and feel safe and
i should live life
without
worrying about
the afterlife so much cause everything should be done with fervor
while many only
portion life into little frozen dinner compartments and eat only
the apple crumb
or the pasty corn you should jump and hop and be MAD and wicked
and
gargantuan
depressed and wholly lovey dovey and wakey up friends at 2am and tell
them to come out
and rattle like a crazy old beatnik about the niches and the
wide
expanses and the
holes in your jeans and the holes in your head.
--------------
then the morning
comes
and your BURst of
MaD self crazyhappy man buries himself and herself and itself
covers up to your
eyes and the i-ego-defense trashes you
and you're normal
and helpless-hapless-straight-scaredy again.
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
>From
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Thu Feb 5
05:21:17 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Received: from
SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.101 #2) id m0y0IoO-001JYXC; Thu,
5 Feb 1998 05:21:16 +0100 (MET)
Received: from
segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.16) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)
with SMTP id <14.57A60C89@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 5:21:14 +0100
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8c) with
NJE id 3340 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:21:27 -0500
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP3@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 0667; Wed,
4 Feb 1998 23:21:20 -0500
Received: from
SOLAIR.EUnet.yu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP;
Wed, 04 Feb 98 23:21:19 EST
Received: from
P-198.93.EUnet.yu (P-198.93.EUnet.yu [194.247.198.93]) by
SOLAIR.EUnet.yu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with
SMTP id FAA09896 for
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>; Thu,
5 Feb 1998 05:20:57 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References:
<34D5A6D3.6BE@together.net>
<3.0.1.32.19980203230924.00807900@postoffice.bellatlantic.net>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Message-ID: <34D96A60.144E@eunet.yu>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:29:36 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Visions of Gerard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Zarra wrote:
>
> Diane,
>
> Nice post on
VISIONS OF GERARD.
> <html>
> <font
face="Lucian BT" size=3>John J Zarra Jr</font></html>
have any of you
wondered about what things would be like, and what kind
of man he would
turn out to be had gerard lived?
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Emc.Fedex.Com:
020498:1
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:49:24 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Zarubnicky
<dmzarubnicky@FEDEX.COM>
Subject: A Thoughtful Pause
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I just returned
to this list after about an 8 month absence...
The majority of
my memories of this list are good ones....
lively
discussions and thoughtful exchanges on Beat related works...
postings of
original poetry and prose...a source for any of us writing
papers in hopes
of bouncing some ideas off one another...a place to turn
when we lose
someone dear to us (Allen, Bill, Jerry)...I've laughed at
some posts and
cried when someone poured their heart out in cyberspace.
What I am asking
everyone to do is to remember that there is another
person with
feelings and a heart on the other end. Feel free to disagree..
but disagree
respectfully. Everyone is allowed an
opinion...Most of
the time that is
all that is being posted here......OPINIONS....
Today alone there
were some interesting posts that were virtually
ignored in favor
of the "eat me" post. The
James Baldwin post/the questions
regarding
KicksJoyDarkness......and the dual father images...Marie's
heart wrenching,
beautiful poem (Marie...I can relate..I haven't spoken
to my father in
about 15 years..it is too painful) coupled with Levi's
post from Neal's
son....
I'm hoping that a
rejoined the Beat-L during a bad period and the situation
will
improve. I cringe when what should be an
open minded forum for an
intelligent
exchange of ideas needs reminder notices from Bill to keep
it in line.
Whoever
asked....KicksJoyDarkness is from _On the Road_...I believe when
Neal and Jack go
out clubbing to the jazz clubs in SF ( I don't have the
text in front of
me).
Regarding James
Baldwin. According to Dan Wakefield's
_New York in the
1950's_ Baldwin
was not very fond of the beats...I don't have that text in
front of me
either but I will post a quote on that tomorrow..
I'm living in
Denver these days so I think tonight I'll take a drive to
My Brother's Bar
and have a drink with the ghost of Neal Cassady...
Respectfully
Melancholy,
Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:37:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: beats and post/modernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> i, too, find
postmodernism difficult to pin down...but it seems to me the
> focus is on
the fragmentary nature of life, how things can be pulled
> apart, how
our lives are increasingly defined by multiple sources and
> lacking a
stable center...and one thing particularly interesting is the
> way
postmodern fiction tries to break down boundaries and genres, how it
> comments on
its own fictionality...
I think that is
the main focus of post-modernism, that things are not
separate. When you get down to it, the only differences
between prose and
poetry is the way
you read it and how you label it. Marcel
DuChamps puts
a urinal on a
pedestal, signs it, names it, and puts it in a museum so it
is art. He did so merely to show that the only value
objects have is that
which society
imposes upon them--leading to semiotics and the like.
Interdisciplinarity
becomes key to understanding. History
and literature
and psychology
and philosophy are not separate, distinct disciplines but
run together.
They've always run together but post-modernism recognizes
that as
such. I think it grows out of the
Modernist pursuit and high
regard for
originality. I think post-modernism is
merely the results of
Modernism carried
to their logical conclusion. Interesting
though is that
as boundaries and
definitions become vaguer and blurrier, coinciding with
a global
community and growing awareness of a world society a
culture earmarked
by WWII, there is the reaction of regionalism and
multi-culturalism
that looks for something to make a group/people/country
unique,
different, and separate from everyone else in the world.
The Beats were
absolutly instrumental in spreading these ideas and
concepts and ways
of thinking into literature. I think
that in 30 or 40
years or so, when
post-modernism congeals into something recognizable so
that it can get a
proper label (though, if it is successful, there never
will be a label),
the Beats will get the recognition they deserve for
this. I've got a whole bag of "I told you
so"-s saved up for all my
friends and
collegues who write me off as just "being interested in that
beat stuff".
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:22:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Claptrap AND something else
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> b>
Kerouac speaks of Sangsara...what is that?
are you sure that
it is sangsara and not samsara instead?
>
> c> On
track five, hunter s. thompson reads a poem of jack's...and the
> last line
says something in latin...
> "ad
aspera..." something something something...I don't have the text
> with me
right now...
> Those of you who do have it...do you know
what it means?...
'ad aspera per
astra'. it means 'from the thorns to the stars' (literal
translation)
>
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:27:23 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: An anniversary eulogy (fwd)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
-----Original
Message-----
From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wednesday,
February 04, 1998 3:22 PM
Subject: An
anniversary eulogy (fwd)
>Did anybody
remember today's sad anniversary?
A few words and a
bit of silence with Anne Marie (Anne Murphy). How is that
for coincidence -
Neal died on Anne's birthday.
BTW the other day
someone again stated that Neal lived
only for himself, or
cared only for
himself, something to that effect. I gave up on responding to
such
declarations, but at the end of the 30th anniversary of his death t is
too sad to
leave such opinions unanswered.
Throughout all
his adventures and misadventures Neal was constant about
staying high,
keeping on moving, and GIVING ALL OF HIMSELF AWAY. I haven't
known another
person in my lifetime who was as ready as Neal was to give,
and who asked for
as little in return.
leon
A con man
misrepresents the worth of things, persuades people to give to him
in exchange for things that are worthless. Neal gave far
more than what he
received in
return.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:21:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: beats and post/modernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
touche, nic
mc
Nicolai Pharao
wrote:
> On Thu, 5
Feb 1998, M. Cakebread wrote:
>
> > At
12:37 AM 2/5/98 -0500, Alex Howard wrote:
> >
> >
>Marcel DuChamps put a urinal on a pedestal, signs it,
> >
>names it, and puts it in a museum so it
> > >is
art. He did so merely to show that the
only value
> >
>objects have is that which society imposes upon them--
> >
>leading to semiotics and the like.
> >
> >
Symptomologically speaking, I'd go and piss in DuChamps
> > urinal.
. .
> >
> > Michel
Jean Gateaupain
> >
> Well, you go
and do that then, but know that you'd be completing the
> artwork by
your action. Its title is "Fountain".
>
> Nic
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender: cake@ionline.net
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 03:28:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: beats and post/modernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 12:37 AM
2/5/98 -0500, Alex Howard wrote:
>Marcel
DuChamps put a urinal on a pedestal, signs it,
>names it, and
puts it in a museum so it
>is art. He did so merely to show that the only value
>objects have
is that which society imposes upon them--
>leading to
semiotics and the like.
Symptomologically
speaking, I'd go and piss in DuChamps
urinal. . .
Michel Jean
Gateaupain
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
IAA05708
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:48:32 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: stick a fork in it, it's done(was beat
dad)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
having afflicted
all of you with my insomniac marathon of rewrites, i
thought, why the
hell not send out what i hope is the final edit for
those interested.
(until i get my cc: template done, i will announce
pome in subject
so that those who wish not, need not read: trying to
keep in the scope
of beat-l, bill.)
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
restrained and
wheel chair bound,
looking slack jawed in the camera's lens
oblivious as the shutter snaps,
his consciousness a naked bulb-
waning,
burning out.
my childhood begins all over again-
when my father was mostly vacant.
coming home long past dinner
trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in, way out:
turning his back on mother's rage,
and vacating the battlefield once more
my father was a tin man,
traveling salesman,
with the perfect con
of
responsibility-
he chose a living on the road
to keep him family-free.
this man, who picked me up from bus
circa '68
who, like him had fled
only to return,.
commiserated with me,
'if i had to do over,
i never would,'
(thus annihilating me.)
the last time i saw my father
we
fought - over what, i can't recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking ignition keys,
was stuck,
locked up, unable to leave.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
as i unlocked the door,
crawling in
he sprawled all over me,
sparking memories of bad things
that further distance brought.
estranged for all these past four years
i moved up north country,
as he moved
south-
thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo sent to me
by his current wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always in billfold
snap shots of mom and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now so little is left,
leaving
vacancy-
no connection,
just a hollow pain
and again the wish to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 05:26:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Beats and Post/Modernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Modernism: The Modern period is from WW1 to roughly
1960. During
that period, it
was thought that all things could be accomplished
through science.
Post-Modernism: From roughly 1960 til now, holds that all
things
are not
accomplishable through science or any other means, and the
world grows
increasingly complex without further accomplishment.
The Beats are
probably post modernists.
]
Mike Rice
hey everybody. SO
today, I took up (again) what is turning
out to be my
eternal quest for
the meaning of "post modernism"-- seems no matter how much I
read, it just
gets more confusing....And then I decided to start w/ modernism,
which was worse. The
article I was reading mentioned every type of literature
created in the
first half of this century, and I had thought it was more of a
philosophy than a
time period, even though the two are closely linked.
Anyway- one of
the major characteristics of modernism, in fact, the first one
listed, is
"stream of conciousness" writing. And of course, no mention of
Keroauc or any
other Beat-type, when it always seemed to me that they had
played a big part
in developing this as a technique.
So I'm basicly
asking for any input/ideas about modernism or postmodernism in
general, and how
the beats relate to either of these topics. I'm a little
lost, and I
thought, who better to ask? :)
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
nicpha@rask
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:07:13 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao
<nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Re: beats and post/modernism
Comments: To:
"M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Thu, 5 Feb
1998, M. Cakebread wrote:
> At 12:37 AM
2/5/98 -0500, Alex Howard wrote:
>
> >Marcel
DuChamps put a urinal on a pedestal, signs it,
> >names
it, and puts it in a museum so it
> >is
art. He did so merely to show that the
only value
> >objects
have is that which society imposes upon them--
> >leading
to semiotics and the like.
>
>
Symptomologically speaking, I'd go and piss in DuChamps
> urinal. . .
>
> Michel Jean
Gateaupain
>
Well, you go and
do that then, but know that you'd be completing the
artwork by your
action. Its title is "Fountain".
Nic
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
MAA21996
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:55:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: delete at will: pome revised again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
perry, yr
comparison to sexton is apt, not in death but in continual
re-writes sent
round to friends, mostly maxine kumin (sp?)
so here we go
again:
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
restrained and
wheel chair bound,
looking slack jawed in the camera's lens
oblivious as the shutter snaps,
his consciousness a naked bulb-
waning,
burning out.
just when i thought it safe,
my childhood begins again-
my father was mostly vacant then,
coming home long past dinner time
traiing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in, way out:
turning his back on my mother's rage,
and bitter battlefield once more.
my father was a tin man,
traveling salesman,
the perfect con of responsibility-
he chose a living on the road
to keep him family-free.
this man, who picked me up from bus
circa '68
having, like him fled, and then returned,
leaned over, whispering,
"if i had to do this life again,
i never would,"
( annihilating me.)
the last time i saw my father
we fought - over what, i can't recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up, unable to leave.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid head in my lap
sparking memories of our distant past,
that further distance brought.
estranged for all these past four years
(i moved up north
he
moved south)-
thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo sent to me
by his current wife,
who wrote and asked,
how
was it that i didn't i know
he carried always in billfold
snap shots of mom and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now so little is left,
leaving
vacancy-
no connection,
just a hollow pain
and again the wish to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:58:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christian Brubaker
<elevatortohell@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!!
PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD
YOU DID! (fwd)]
Comments: To:
"mbv@netch.se" <mbv@netch.se>,
"mobility@mail.xmission.com"
<mobility@mail.xmission.com>,
"panic_list@uclink4.berkeley.edu"
<panic_list@uclink4.berkeley.edu>,
"shue-list@axnet.net"
<shue-list@axnet.net>,
"ET_etc@bronze.interlog.com" <ET_etc@bronze.interlog.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Return-Path:
<mseery@webcom.com>
Received: from
x86.webcom.com (x86.webcom.com [209.1.28.59])
by camel23.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with ESMTP id VAA30683;
Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:38:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from
localhost (s1000e2.webcom.com [209.1.28.39])
by x86.webcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id SAA10437;
Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:39:32 +0800
Date: Wed, 4 Feb
1998 18:39:32 +0800
From: Christi
Suzanne Bradford <csbrad@ea.oac.uci.edu>
To:
janeane_fans@webcom.com
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
Message-ID:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.980204183534.20783B-100000@rigel.oac.uci.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Everyone,
This has nothing to do with JG, but
please read it. You'll be
glad you did.
Sincerely,
Christi Bradford
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 2 Feb
1998 12:38:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Rosalyn Remulla
<rremulla@ea.oac.uci.edu>
To:
kfung@uci.edu, "\"Kuya\" Gary Dale Padre"
<PadreDDS@uci.edu>,
"\"Ate\" Cynthia Grace
Balanz" <CGBALANZ@uci.edu>,
Anna Jane Ylagan Eliseo
<AELISEO@uci.edu>,
Kuya Andrew
<CIVICTYPER@mindspring.com>,
"Evelyn \"Dragon Fly\"
Maximo" <Evelyn_99@hotmail.com>,
"Donella \"Big-D\"
Bernardo" <ubernd02@mcl.ucsb.edu>,
"Melina \"Mel\" Bello"
<melina_07738@hotmail.com>,
"CUMBRE -- Amy \"Hello\"
Hahn" <yahahn@uci.edu>,
"Amy \"Sweetie\"
Soyong" <soyongl@uci.edu>,
"April \"Raymond's woman\"
Shin" <hshin@uci.edu>,
"Audrey \"Online\"
Hong" <ahong@uci.edu>,
"Charito \"Cheetos\"
Pascua" <cspascua@uci.edu>,
"Christi \"Omniscient\"
Bradford" <CSBrad@ea.oac.uci.edu>,
"\"Mr. Ed\" Hyatt"
<ECHyatt@uci.edu>,
"Eubert \"Q-Bert\"
Querubin" <efquerub@uci.edu>,
"Eugene \"King Bam-Bam\"
Cabanan" <Ecabanba@uci.edu>,
"Gina \"Computer Luv\"
Lam" <gtlam@uci.edu>,
"James \"Bad-ass\"
Landas" <jlandas@uci.edu>,
Joyce Wang <wangjy@uci.edu>, juanita
jimenez <jimenezj@uci.edu>,
"Linda \"Tall\" Truong"
<LHTRUONG@uci.edu>, Lydia Du <LDU@uci.edu>,
'Mommy' Mike Nondarakse
<mcnondar@uci.edu>,
"\"Nasty\" Nilam Patel"
<NPPatel@uci.edu>,
"Rich \"Body-Builder\" Lopez"
<rplopez@uci.edu>,
"\"Tenderhearted\" Tina
Cho" <KCHO@uci.edu>,
"\"Tommy-'Boy' Hilfiger\"
L." <Tommyl@uci.edu>,
"William \"BMR-man\"
Cheng" <wcheng@uci.edu>,
"Yunhee \"Pick-Me-Up\"
Park" <Yunheep@uci.edu>,
"Joseph \"Jofus\" Pascua"
<jpascua@ucla.edu>,
"Anthony \"TonyToniTone\"
Maximo" <AntMax@csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb
1998 23:32:06 -0800 (PST)
From:
"Casimir M. Lancaster " <clancast@ea.oac.uci.edu>
To: Pong Aing
<aingp@uci.edu>, John Almeda <jalmeda@uci.edu>,
Joan Aquino <jaquino@uci.edu>,
Rogelio Arreola <rarreola@uci.edu>,
Joselyn Bermudez <jbbermud@uci.edu>,
Atour Bouza <abouza@uci.edu>,
Linda Bui <buil@uci.edu>, Sara Dai
<FLyGGrrrl@aol.com>,
Desiree B Caluza
<dcaluza@mission.mvnc.edu>,
Kim Do <kldo@ea.oac.uci.edu>, Wendy
Duanes <wduanes@uci.edu>,
Tsob Fang <tfang@uci.edu>, Tran Han
<hant@uci.edu>,
Tran Han <tqh1@juno.com>, Dong Hinh
<dhinh@uci.edu>,
Mai Le <mtle@uci.edu>, Jennifer
Lizarraga <jlizarra@uci.edu>,
Chrystal Manore <cmanore@uci.edu>,
Mike Chough <wufanforever@juno.com>,
Monica Moise <mmoise@uci.edu>, Nelson
<nclaros@uci.edu>,
John Ninofranco
<jninofra@ea.oac.uci.edu>,
Tam-Huong Pham <tamhuonp@uci.edu>,
Hanh Phan <phanhn@uci.edu>,
Rosalyn Remulla <rremulla@uci.edu>,
Jerel Salviejo <jsalviej@uci.edu>,
Prachin Tiv <ptiv@uci.edu>, Tina Tran
<trannk@uci.edu>,
Jennifer Villasenor <jrillase@uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan
1998 13:17:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Jennifer
Michelle Landa <JMLANDA@uci.edu>
To: Desiree
Mallory <dmallory@uci.edu>
Cc:
aguillon@uci.edu, mchabre@uci.edu, chent@uci.edu, gchavosh@uci.edu,
prystic@uci.edu, damon@uci.edu,
tlelling@uci.edu, markjham@uci.edu,
dharter@uci.edu, jghenri@uci.edu,
deidre@uci.edu, dkupper@uci.edu,
tlmacedo@uci.edu, cjmarsha@uci.edu,
jmlanda@uci.edu, jmankin@uci.edu,
tera@uci.edu, jspatton@uci.edu,
rrussell@uci.edu, jstimson@uci.edu,
tavander@uci.edu, wacko@uci.edu,
criste@uci.edu, mvaldez@uci.edu,
vborjas@uci.edu, kldo@uci.edu,
clancast@uci.edu, lvasquez@uci.edu,
richardc@uci.edu, d4garcia@uci.edu,
j3taylor@uci.edu, joeyyy@uci.edu,
nmnixon@uci.edu, elirojas@uci.edu
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
On Tue, 27 Jan
1998, Desiree Mallory wrote:
>
>X-Sender: ovannost@e4e.oac.uci.edu
>
>
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
>
> >Date:
Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:50:51 -0800
>
> >To:
lmaestas@uci.edu, cmccormi@uci.edu, scloudhs@uci.edu, lebaker@uci.edu,
>
> > jconner@uci.edu, setotten@uci.edu,
dmallory@uci.edu,
DPECORAR@uci.edu,
>
> > rladams@uci.edu, kcweber@ucdavis.edu,
gbirkhol@uci.edu,
>
> > osharon1@juno.com, ChuckH1063@aol.com
>
> >From:
Ollie Van Nostrand <<ovannost@uci.edu>
>
> >Subject:
Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
>
> > DID!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > TO: MASSAOL@aol.com
>
> > FROM:
GatesBeta@microsoft.com
>
> > ATTACH: Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html
>
> > Hello
Everyone
>
> > And
thank you for signing up for my Beta Email Tracking Application
>
> >or (BETA) for short. My name is Bill Gates. Here at Microsoft we have just
>
> >compiled
an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone to whom this
>
> >message
is
>
>
>forwarded to. It does this through an unique IP (Internet Protocol) address
>
> >logbook
database. We are experimenting with this
and need your help.
>
> >Forward
this to everyone you know and if it reaches
1000 people everyone
>
> >on the
list you will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my
>
>
>expense.Enjoy.
>
> > Note:
Duplicate entries will not be counted. You will be notified byemail
>
> > with
further instructions once this email has reached 1000 people.
>
>
>Windows98 will not be shipped unitl it has been released to the general
>
> >public.
>
> > Your friend,
>
> > Bill Gates & The Microsoft Development
Team.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>===========================
>
> >Ollie
Van Nostrand
>
>
>Assistant Dean
>
> >School
of the Arts
>
>
>===========================
>
>
>University of California, Irvine
>
> >300 Arts
>
> >Irvine,
CA 92697-2775
>
> >(714)
824-5078
>
> >(714)
824-2450 (fax)
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
<center>*********************************
>
>
<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Desiree M. Mallory
>
> Director,
Operations & Marketing
>
> School of
the Arts
>
>
</color>*********************************
>
> University
of California, Irvine
>
> 300 Arts
>
> Irvine, CA
92697-2775
>
> Phone (714)
824-2397
>
> FAX (714)
824-2450
>
>
dmallory@uci.edu
>
>
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://www.arts.uci.edu
>
>
</color></center>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:00:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christian Brubaker <elevatortohell@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!!
PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD
YOU DID! (fwd)]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Return-Path:
<mseery@webcom.com>
Received: from
x86.webcom.com (x86.webcom.com [209.1.28.59])
by camel23.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with ESMTP id VAA30683;
Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:38:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from
localhost (s1000e2.webcom.com [209.1.28.39])
by x86.webcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id SAA10437;
Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:39:32 +0800
Date: Wed, 4 Feb
1998 18:39:32 +0800
From: Christi
Suzanne Bradford <csbrad@ea.oac.uci.edu>
To:
janeane_fans@webcom.com
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
Message-ID:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.980204183534.20783B-100000@rigel.oac.uci.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Everyone,
This has nothing to do with JG, but
please read it. You'll be
glad you did.
Sincerely,
Christi Bradford
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 2 Feb
1998 12:38:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Rosalyn
Remulla <rremulla@ea.oac.uci.edu>
To:
kfung@uci.edu, "\"Kuya\" Gary Dale Padre"
<PadreDDS@uci.edu>,
"\"Ate\" Cynthia Grace
Balanz" <CGBALANZ@uci.edu>,
Anna Jane Ylagan Eliseo
<AELISEO@uci.edu>,
Kuya Andrew
<CIVICTYPER@mindspring.com>,
"Evelyn \"Dragon Fly\"
Maximo" <Evelyn_99@hotmail.com>,
"Donella \"Big-D\"
Bernardo" <ubernd02@mcl.ucsb.edu>,
"Melina \"Mel\" Bello"
<melina_07738@hotmail.com>,
"CUMBRE -- Amy \"Hello\"
Hahn" <yahahn@uci.edu>,
"Amy \"Sweetie\"
Soyong" <soyongl@uci.edu>,
"April \"Raymond's woman\"
Shin" <hshin@uci.edu>,
"Audrey \"Online\"
Hong" <ahong@uci.edu>,
"Charito \"Cheetos\"
Pascua" <cspascua@uci.edu>,
"Christi \"Omniscient\"
Bradford" <CSBrad@ea.oac.uci.edu>,
"\"Mr. Ed\" Hyatt"
<ECHyatt@uci.edu>,
"Eubert \"Q-Bert\"
Querubin" <efquerub@uci.edu>,
"Eugene \"King Bam-Bam\"
Cabanan" <Ecabanba@uci.edu>,
"Gina \"Computer Luv\"
Lam" <gtlam@uci.edu>,
"James \"Bad-ass\"
Landas" <jlandas@uci.edu>,
Joyce Wang <wangjy@uci.edu>, juanita
jimenez <jimenezj@uci.edu>,
"Linda \"Tall\" Truong"
<LHTRUONG@uci.edu>, Lydia Du <LDU@uci.edu>,
'Mommy' Mike Nondarakse
<mcnondar@uci.edu>,
"\"Nasty\" Nilam Patel"
<NPPatel@uci.edu>,
"Rich \"Body-Builder\"
Lopez" <rplopez@uci.edu>,
"\"Tenderhearted\" Tina
Cho" <KCHO@uci.edu>,
"\"Tommy-'Boy' Hilfiger\"
L." <Tommyl@uci.edu>,
"William \"BMR-man\"
Cheng" <wcheng@uci.edu>,
"Yunhee \"Pick-Me-Up\"
Park" <Yunheep@uci.edu>,
"Joseph \"Jofus\"
Pascua" <jpascua@ucla.edu>,
"Anthony \"TonyToniTone\"
Maximo" <AntMax@csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb
1998 23:32:06 -0800 (PST)
From:
"Casimir M. Lancaster " <clancast@ea.oac.uci.edu>
To: Pong Aing
<aingp@uci.edu>, John Almeda <jalmeda@uci.edu>,
Joan Aquino <jaquino@uci.edu>,
Rogelio Arreola <rarreola@uci.edu>,
Joselyn Bermudez <jbbermud@uci.edu>,
Atour Bouza <abouza@uci.edu>,
Linda Bui <buil@uci.edu>, Sara Dai
<FLyGGrrrl@aol.com>,
Desiree B Caluza
<dcaluza@mission.mvnc.edu>,
Kim Do <kldo@ea.oac.uci.edu>, Wendy
Duanes <wduanes@uci.edu>,
Tsob Fang <tfang@uci.edu>, Tran Han
<hant@uci.edu>,
Tran Han <tqh1@juno.com>, Dong Hinh
<dhinh@uci.edu>,
Mai Le <mtle@uci.edu>, Jennifer
Lizarraga <jlizarra@uci.edu>,
Chrystal Manore <cmanore@uci.edu>,
Mike Chough <wufanforever@juno.com>,
Monica Moise <mmoise@uci.edu>, Nelson
<nclaros@uci.edu>,
John Ninofranco
<jninofra@ea.oac.uci.edu>,
Tam-Huong Pham <tamhuonp@uci.edu>,
Hanh Phan <phanhn@uci.edu>,
Rosalyn Remulla <rremulla@uci.edu>,
Jerel Salviejo <jsalviej@uci.edu>,
Prachin Tiv <ptiv@uci.edu>, Tina Tran
<trannk@uci.edu>,
Jennifer Villasenor
<jrillase@uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan
1998 13:17:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Jennifer
Michelle Landa <JMLANDA@uci.edu>
To: Desiree
Mallory <dmallory@uci.edu>
Cc:
aguillon@uci.edu, mchabre@uci.edu, chent@uci.edu, gchavosh@uci.edu,
prystic@uci.edu, damon@uci.edu,
tlelling@uci.edu, markjham@uci.edu,
dharter@uci.edu, jghenri@uci.edu,
deidre@uci.edu, dkupper@uci.edu,
tlmacedo@uci.edu, cjmarsha@uci.edu,
jmlanda@uci.edu, jmankin@uci.edu,
tera@uci.edu, jspatton@uci.edu, rrussell@uci.edu,
jstimson@uci.edu,
tavander@uci.edu, wacko@uci.edu,
criste@uci.edu, mvaldez@uci.edu,
vborjas@uci.edu, kldo@uci.edu,
clancast@uci.edu, lvasquez@uci.edu,
richardc@uci.edu, d4garcia@uci.edu,
j3taylor@uci.edu, joeyyy@uci.edu,
nmnixon@uci.edu, elirojas@uci.edu
Subject: Re: Fw:
MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
On Tue, 27 Jan
1998, Desiree Mallory wrote:
>
>X-Sender: ovannost@e4e.oac.uci.edu
>
>
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
>
> >Date:
Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:50:51 -0800
>
> >To:
lmaestas@uci.edu, cmccormi@uci.edu, scloudhs@uci.edu, lebaker@uci.edu,
>
> > jconner@uci.edu, setotten@uci.edu,
dmallory@uci.edu,
DPECORAR@uci.edu,
>
> > rladams@uci.edu, kcweber@ucdavis.edu,
gbirkhol@uci.edu,
>
> > osharon1@juno.com, ChuckH1063@aol.com
>
> >From:
Ollie Van Nostrand <<ovannost@uci.edu>
>
> >Subject:
Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
>
> > DID!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > TO: MASSAOL@aol.com
>
> > FROM:
GatesBeta@microsoft.com
>
> > ATTACH:
Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html
>
> > Hello
Everyone
>
> > And
thank you for signing up for my Beta Email Tracking Application
>
> >or (BETA) for short. My name is Bill Gates. Here at Microsoft we have just
>
> >compiled
an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone to whom this
>
> >message
is
>
>
>forwarded to. It does this through an unique IP (Internet Protocol) address
>
> >logbook
database. We are experimenting with this
and need your help.
>
> >Forward
this to everyone you know and if it
reaches 1000 people everyone
>
> >on the
list you will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my
>
>
>expense.Enjoy.
>
> > Note: Duplicate
entries will not be counted. You will be notified byemail
>
> > with
further instructions once this email has reached 1000 people.
>
>
>Windows98 will not be shipped unitl it has been released to the general
>
> >public.
>
> > Your friend,
>
> > Bill Gates & The Microsoft Development
Team.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>===========================
>
> >Ollie
Van Nostrand
>
>
>Assistant Dean
>
> >School
of the Arts
>
>
>===========================
>
> >University
of California, Irvine
>
> >300 Arts
>
> >Irvine,
CA 92697-2775
>
> >(714)
824-5078
>
> >(714)
824-2450 (fax)
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
<center>*********************************
>
>
<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Desiree M. Mallory
>
> Director,
Operations & Marketing
>
> School of
the Arts
>
>
</color>*********************************
>
> University
of California, Irvine
>
> 300 Arts
>
> Irvine, CA
92697-2775
>
> Phone (714)
824-2397
>
> FAX (714)
824-2450
>
>
dmallory@uci.edu
>
>
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://www.arts.uci.edu
>
>
</color></center>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:23:51 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Thomas Van Moortel
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
None
Subject: SPAM: Bill Gates
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
BILL GATES, LORD
OF BITS & BYTES, ANYTHING BUT BEAT
Ok, this isn't
gonna land ya a 1000$ or a free copy of Windows '98
but at least it's
funny. Bill Gates landed in Belgium and
got three
cakes in da
face. Forgive me, my Lord, for we have
sinned...
xcuses for this spam,
Thomas Van Moortel
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\billygates.gif"
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:33:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT
WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE
GLAD YOU DID! (fwd)]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
can this person
be blocked?
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:05:59 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: one-liners and "me too" posts
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
All these quickie
posts ridiculing and commenting on the chain letter
are even worse
spam than the chain letter itself.
Even worse are
the posts that quote THE ENTIRE CHAIN LETTER ALL OVER
AGAIN, as if we
needed another copy. No post ever
requires quoting the
source letter in
its entirety, people, especially just to add one or two
lines. Edit,
edit, edit!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
j.s.holland
he of the clogged
inbox
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
24.cyberhost.net: Host jungfrau-52.pinn.net
[207.226.105.52]
claimed to be hartman
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:18:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<the.lunatic@LUNATIC-MEDIA.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT
WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE
GLAD YOU DID! (fwd)]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,
this about the tenth time I've received this obviously
fake email
message. . . Let's begin with a lesson
in Bullshit Detection
101.
1) Check the
source. No where on Microsoft's site is
this "BETA" program
mentioned. .
. It's a load of crap.
2) Consider the
name of the program. . . BETA? Duh, even Microsoft
wouldn't name a
program BETA. . . that's like Chevy
trying to sell their
Nova in South
America (Nova = "doesn't go"
in Spanish).
3) Do yourself a
favor and READ the message before you forward it. . . Mr.
Gates, pie-faced
though he may be, can spell better than this--at first
count, at least
five spelling errors and typos. And the
grammar. . . jeez,
are you really
that gullible?
The purpose of
letters like this are to simply feed the spam mills of
unscrupulous
people. They manage to get the letter at
the end of the cycle
and then suck all
of the email addresses from it. . . Then
they compile
their own list
and sell it to every other spammer on the web.
You and
everyone else who
contributed to this idiocy have handed yourself over to
someone simply
because they promised you a $1000 bucks and Microsoft's
latest piece of
bloatware. Wake up (and spare us from
your stupidity).
'Tis better NOT
to send email and let others think you a fool than to send
it and prove them
right.
Bruce W. Hartman,
Jr.
the.lunatic@lunatic-media.com
http://www.lunatic-media.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:00:40 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
William
S.Burroughs came into this world on this day in 1914. Radio was
in its infancy,
and Nikola Tesla was preparing to sue Marconi for his
false claim of
inventing what Tesla had already patented. The typewriter
had only been in
existence for 46 years. The Civil War was only as far
back in the past
as the birth of rock and roll is to us today.
America in 1914
was at a turning point : the Industrial Revolution
loomed just
ahead, the beginning of The End. At the other end of the
Century lay
apocalypse, which Burroughs himself lived to see begin,
first with the
advent of the Internet he predicted, and then with the
publication of
the FC (Freedom Club)'s Manifesto (referred to by the
press and the FBI
as "the Unabomber's Manifesto") and the subsequent
arrest of one Ted
Kaczynski. The other members of Freedom Club are
ignored and
Mr.Kaczynski, we are informed, was just another Lone Nut.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"As the
conspirators move across the country the FBI man is always one
step behind them.
His investigations are handicapped by his belief that
the conspiracy is
political which send him down a number of false
trails." -
WSB, 'Exterminator'.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Burroughs takes
the opposite course intended for him by his father, who,
in inventing the
adding machine and being single-handedly responsible
for the
modernization of banks, has fired the starting gun of the race
against time.
Burroughs travels
to distant lands like a junkie Hemingway, to Mexico,
South America,
Africa; hunting not for animal pelts but for truth, and
for a mysterious
fabled drug called Yage, which he finds, ingests, and
emerges a changed
man.
Burroughs writes.
And writes. And writes. Tells the truth in lucid,
gutteral, terms,
writing of all manner of things underworld and ugly,
and shows us the
beauty therein. In addition to telling it like it is,
he also tells us
how it ought to be, playing both Stanley Kowalski *and*
Blanche. He
writes of a faraway world where people are free of sexual
hangups, and
where people are not inclined to meddle in one another's
business.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"There is a
heppy lend, fur, fur away...." - Krazy Kat
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Burroughs finally
gained some paltry measure of success and recognition,
with "Naked
Lunch" striking the dartboard, and ultimately being inducted
into the American
Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters. Said WSB at
the time,
"These people, twenty years ago, they were saying I belonged
in jail. Now
they're saying I belong in their club. I didn't listen to
them then, and I
don't listen to them now."
Burroughs led a
full life but never truly got a taste of the Port of
Saints he dreamed
of. Woven through his life's writings is the sad
acknowledgment
that he was born in the wrong time. Had he lived in
another, simpler
era, where he imagined the world was freer and more
exciting, he
could have REALLY shown us something. Too many years and
too much effort
spent in running from cops; turning down the blinds;
hiding the stash;
putting on the right personality for the nosy
landlord; lapsing
in rage and depression at bad reviews by reviewers who
wouldn't know
good writing if it bit the psoriasis off their elbows;
kissing the asses
of editors and then fighting to keep from getting
screwed by them;
and always the warring factions in his brain, of
loneliness and contempt.
Yes, if only he could have lived in a simpler
time, in a freer
land. That freer land may just be around the corner,
along with
surprises no one dreamed possible. I am certain of it.
This I know : we
have not seen the last of William S.Burroughs.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Clem, swear
to me by everything that we hold sacred that you will use
every cent of
that money to try to turn the clock back to 1899, when a
silver dollar
bought a good meal or a good piece of ass."
- - WSB,
"Exterminator".
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
j.s. holland
"I am
surprised! It is very beautiful over there!"
(The last words
of Thomas Edison)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:02:35 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB's Birthday celebration in
Madison-IMPORTANT
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Friends,
Today on WORT-FM
Radio, Madison, WI a fellow named Biff is really
celebrating WSB's
birthday. Music, spoken word, WSB voice over music, on
and on and on. It
is incredible. A real BEAT HOLIDAY IN MADISON, WI
Let's all send
them E-mail. The more the merrier. Let's make it an IMPACT.
I follow-up and
make sure a press release gets to the media. That willhit
AP and UPI and
other stations will make a note to dothe same when BEAT
BIRTHDAYS arrive.
This fellows
E-mail address is: <fiddlebub@aol.com>
WORT-FM's E-mail
address (to the Operations Managerwo is a very good
person) is:
normstoc@wort-fm.terracom.net
I hope Beat List
folks will send a msg to Biff and cc the station letting
them know that
when they celibrate the Beats, they are celebrating the
critically
important writers who have influenced 20th Centruy American
literature.
I want to provide
all the encouragement I can to people taking time to
celebrate the
Beats on their birthdays.
Thanks.
jo
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Pater
Noster.
Cc:
Bcc:
wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1998020417132522@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Pater Noster.
Pater noster qui
es in coelo
santificetur
nomen tuum
adveniat regnum
tuum
fiat volumptas
tua
sicut in coelo et
in terra.
Panem cotidianum
da nobis hodie
et dimitte nobis
debita nostra
sicut nos
dimittimus debitoribus nostri
et ne nos inducas
in temptationem
sed libera nos a
malo.
Amen.
--dictat Christi.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:31:29 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> His Grampy
was the inventor of the Adding Machine, not his Pops, if I am not
> mistaken.
=== It was his
father, William S.Burroughs the first. Invented it in
1886.
=-=-=-=
jsh,ky
beep
=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:40:09 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 05
Feb 1998 18:28:40...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 05 Feb 1998 18:28:40 +0100 with subject "Pater
Noster."
has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (254
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:44:38 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re:
cake
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
patricia, thank
you so much; these stories are wonderful glimpses into
"william"
i often think of the weed "sweet william" when i read your posts.
you add beauty
and grace to this often cantankerous list.
marie
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> a cake,
chocolate, a zillion candles. the
frosting is a variation of
> coco fudge.
> before
supper, soda crackers and cavier.
> a glass of
coke cola and vod.
> before
supper, damn sweet conversation.
> after supper,
slightly incoherent rambling shit
> that could
be funny as hell.
> a wsb story
> one thursday
evening i'm making lamb chops.
> Tv news
announces that a hot pursuit is on.
> desperate
felon is being chased from kansas city to lawrence.
> We are on
the kc side of town.
> william
comes out of the den, ok his bedroom where he is talking to the
> boys
> wayne and
david.
> gives us all
a nicely loaded gun to defend ourself and his hearth.
> says by god,
don't answer the door without it.
> Nice 38 laid
by the spatula. I tease him about the
favors.
> later on the
news, felon had turned left, once he hit town,
> stopping at
a corner so close that i could see it from the window
> taking a
hostage of course. When i tried to let
william say
> i told you
so. he as usual wasn't concerned with
that rubbage.
> he wonder
what the desparado was packing.
>
> william at
cottage
>
> william is
setting up combining his new obsesssion with his old one.
> He is
positioning a plyboard with bottles of ink suspended from it.
> then
stepping 15 feet back, well the bottles are small and william keeps
> stepping
closer to actually hit it. On one shot
william wheels back and
> his forhead
is splattered. david and i are sure that
some damn
> richochet has
got him. but when the ink bottle burst,
a peice had flown
> back and
walloped his third eye. "No. No. I'M OK." He testily says, with
> a good size
blotch of indigo on his forehead.
>
> William
liked driving through the country side.
One of the many reason
> I think he
was happy in Lawrence. Sometimes he
would make up storys
> about the
houses or people. In really whimisical
moods, we would look
> at the
clouds and point out "looks likes".
He was a natual story
> person. He worked his mind all the time. He wasn't just superstitious,
> he believed
in magic. Soon after i meet him i told
him that he reminded
> me of a
ghost i knew when i was a child. He did too. He was someone that
> you could
seriously discuss magic, chance, and decency with.
> patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:58:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sorted <junky@NETCONCEPTS.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB's Birthday celebration in
Madison-IMPORTANT
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Friends,
>
>Today on
WORT-FM Radio, Madison, WI a fellow named Biff is really
>celebrating
WSB's birthday. Music, spoken word, WSB voice over music, on
>and on and
on. It is incredible. A real BEAT HOLIDAY IN MADISON, WI
i'm up here in
madison as well...although burroughs.net is still down, i
placed a birthday
message and a small note to tune into 89.9 if you're at
all within range.
-s
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-CriticalPath-Sent:
5 Feb 1998 17:55:01 GMT
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:01:23 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: steve <sbrocksieck@COMPARE.NET>
Subject: Re: [mbv] [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT
WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL
BE GLAD YOU DID!
(fwd)]
Comments: To:
mbv@netch.se
Comments: cc:
"mobility@mail.xmission.com" <mobility@mail.xmission.com>,
"panic_list@uclink4.berkeley.edu"
<panic_list@uclink4.berkeley.edu>,
"shue-list@axnet.net"
<shue-list@axnet.net>,
"ET_etc@bronze.interlog.com" <ET_etc@bronze.interlog.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This is a
crock. If you think Bill is going to
give away a grand
to ANYone, I have
some prime swamp land in Florida for sale, too.
Christian
Brubaker wrote:
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re:
Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID! (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 4
Feb 1998 18:39:32 +0800
> From:
Christi Suzanne Bradford <csbrad@ea.oac.uci.edu>
> To: janeane_fans@webcom.com
>
> Hi Everyone,
> This has nothing to do with JG, but
please read it. You'll be
> glad you
did.
>
> Sincerely,
> Christi
Bradford
>
> ----------
Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 2
Feb 1998 12:38:28 -0800 (PST)
> From:
Rosalyn Remulla <rremulla@ea.oac.uci.edu>
> To:
kfung@uci.edu, "\"Kuya\" Gary Dale Padre"
<PadreDDS@uci.edu>,
> "\"Ate\" Cynthia Grace
Balanz" <CGBALANZ@uci.edu>,
> Anna Jane Ylagan Eliseo
<AELISEO@uci.edu>,
> Kuya Andrew <CIVICTYPER@mindspring.com>,
> "Evelyn \"Dragon Fly\"
Maximo" <Evelyn_99@hotmail.com>,
> "Donella \"Big-D\"
Bernardo" <ubernd02@mcl.ucsb.edu>,
> "Melina \"Mel\" Bello"
<melina_07738@hotmail.com>,
> "CUMBRE -- Amy \"Hello\"
Hahn" <yahahn@uci.edu>,
> "Amy \"Sweetie\"
Soyong" <soyongl@uci.edu>,
> "April \"Raymond's woman\"
Shin" <hshin@uci.edu>,
> "Audrey \"Online\"
Hong" <ahong@uci.edu>,
> "Charito \"Cheetos\"
Pascua" <cspascua@uci.edu>,
> "Christi \"Omniscient\" Bradford"
<CSBrad@ea.oac.uci.edu>,
> "\"Mr. Ed\" Hyatt"
<ECHyatt@uci.edu>,
> "Eubert \"Q-Bert\"
Querubin" <efquerub@uci.edu>,
> "Eugene \"King Bam-Bam\"
Cabanan" <Ecabanba@uci.edu>,
> "Gina \"Computer Luv\"
Lam" <gtlam@uci.edu>,
> "James \"Bad-ass\"
Landas" <jlandas@uci.edu>,
> Joyce Wang <wangjy@uci.edu>, juanita
jimenez <jimenezj@uci.edu>,
> "Linda \"Tall\"
Truong" <LHTRUONG@uci.edu>, Lydia Du <LDU@uci.edu>,
> 'Mommy' Mike Nondarakse
<mcnondar@uci.edu>,
> "\"Nasty\" Nilam
Patel" <NPPatel@uci.edu>,
> "Rich \"Body-Builder\"
Lopez" <rplopez@uci.edu>,
> "\"Tenderhearted\" Tina
Cho" <KCHO@uci.edu>,
> "\"Tommy-'Boy' Hilfiger\"
L." <Tommyl@uci.edu>,
> "William \"BMR-man\"
Cheng" <wcheng@uci.edu>,
> "Yunhee \"Pick-Me-Up\"
Park" <Yunheep@uci.edu>,
> "Joseph \"Jofus\"
Pascua" <jpascua@ucla.edu>,
> "Anthony \"TonyToniTone\"
Maximo" <AntMax@csulb.edu>
> Subject: Re:
Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
>
> ----------
Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 1
Feb 1998 23:32:06 -0800 (PST)
> From:
"Casimir M. Lancaster " <clancast@ea.oac.uci.edu>
> To: Pong
Aing <aingp@uci.edu>, John Almeda <jalmeda@uci.edu>,
> Joan Aquino <jaquino@uci.edu>, Rogelio
Arreola <rarreola@uci.edu>,
> Joselyn Bermudez <jbbermud@uci.edu>,
Atour Bouza <abouza@uci.edu>,
> Linda Bui <buil@uci.edu>, Sara Dai
<FLyGGrrrl@aol.com>,
> Desiree B Caluza
<dcaluza@mission.mvnc.edu>,
> Kim Do <kldo@ea.oac.uci.edu>, Wendy
Duanes <wduanes@uci.edu>,
> Tsob Fang <tfang@uci.edu>, Tran Han
<hant@uci.edu>,
> Tran Han <tqh1@juno.com>, Dong Hinh
<dhinh@uci.edu>,
> Mai Le <mtle@uci.edu>, Jennifer
Lizarraga <jlizarra@uci.edu>,
> Chrystal Manore <cmanore@uci.edu>,
Mike Chough <wufanforever@juno.com>,
> Monica Moise <mmoise@uci.edu>,
Nelson <nclaros@uci.edu>,
> John Ninofranco
<jninofra@ea.oac.uci.edu>,
> Tam-Huong Pham <tamhuonp@uci.edu>,
Hanh Phan <phanhn@uci.edu>,
> Rosalyn Remulla <rremulla@uci.edu>,
Jerel Salviejo <jsalviej@uci.edu>,
> Prachin Tiv <ptiv@uci.edu>, Tina
Tran <trannk@uci.edu>,
> Jennifer Villasenor
<jrillase@uci.edu>
> Subject: Re:
Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
(fwd)
>
> ----------
Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri,
30 Jan 1998 13:17:43 -0800 (PST)
> From:
Jennifer Michelle Landa <JMLANDA@uci.edu>
> To: Desiree
Mallory <dmallory@uci.edu>
> Cc:
aguillon@uci.edu, mchabre@uci.edu, chent@uci.edu, gchavosh@uci.edu,
> prystic@uci.edu, damon@uci.edu,
tlelling@uci.edu, markjham@uci.edu,
> dharter@uci.edu, jghenri@uci.edu,
deidre@uci.edu, dkupper@uci.edu,
> tlmacedo@uci.edu, cjmarsha@uci.edu,
jmlanda@uci.edu, jmankin@uci.edu,
> tera@uci.edu, jspatton@uci.edu,
rrussell@uci.edu, jstimson@uci.edu,
> tavander@uci.edu, wacko@uci.edu,
criste@uci.edu, mvaldez@uci.edu,
> vborjas@uci.edu, kldo@uci.edu,
clancast@uci.edu, lvasquez@uci.edu,
> richardc@uci.edu, d4garcia@uci.edu,
j3taylor@uci.edu, joeyyy@uci.edu,
> nmnixon@uci.edu, elirojas@uci.edu
> Subject: Re:
Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
DID!
>
> On Tue, 27
Jan 1998, Desiree Mallory wrote:
>
> >
>X-Sender: ovannost@e4e.oac.uci.edu
> >
> >
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
> >
> >
>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:50:51 -0800
> >
> > >To:
lmaestas@uci.edu, cmccormi@uci.edu, scloudhs@uci.edu, lebaker@uci.edu,
> >
> >
> jconner@uci.edu,
setotten@uci.edu, dmallory@uci.edu,
DPECORAR@uci.edu,
> >
> >
> rladams@uci.edu,
kcweber@ucdavis.edu, gbirkhol@uci.edu,
> >
> >
> osharon1@juno.com,
ChuckH1063@aol.com
> >
> >
>From: Ollie Van Nostrand <<ovannost@uci.edu>
> >
> >
>Subject: Fw: MICROSOFT WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU
> >
> >
> DID!
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> TO: MASSAOL@aol.com
> >
> > >
FROM: GatesBeta@microsoft.com
> >
> >
> ATTACH:
Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html
> >
> > >
Hello Everyone
> >
> > >
And thank you for signing up for my Beta Email Tracking Application
> >
> >
>or (BETA) for short. My name is Bill
Gates. Here at Microsoft we have
just
> >
> >
>compiled an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone to whom this
> >
> >
>message is
> >
> >
>forwarded to. It does this through an unique IP (Internet Protocol) address
> >
> >
>logbook database. We are
experimenting with this and need your help.
> >
> >
>Forward this to everyone you know
and if it reaches 1000 people everyone
> >
> > >on
the list you will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my
> >
> >
>expense.Enjoy.
> >
> > >
Note: Duplicate entries will not be counted. You will be notified byemail
> >
> > >
with further instructions once this email has reached 1000 people.
> >
> >
>Windows98 will not be shipped unitl it has been released to the general
> >
> >
>public.
> >
> >
> Your friend,
> >
> >
> Bill Gates & The Microsoft
Development Team.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>===========================
> >
> >
>Ollie Van Nostrand
> >
> >
>Assistant Dean
> >
> >
>School of the Arts
> >
> >
>===========================
> >
> >
>University of California, Irvine
> >
> > >300
Arts
> >
> >
>Irvine, CA 92697-2775
> >
> >
>(714) 824-5078
> >
> >
>(714) 824-2450 (fax)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
<center>*********************************
> >
> >
<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>Desiree M. Mallory
> >
> >
Director, Operations & Marketing
> >
> > School
of the Arts
> >
> >
</color>*********************************
> >
> >
University of California, Irvine
> >
> > 300
Arts
> >
> > Irvine,
CA 92697-2775
> >
> > Phone
(714) 824-2397
> >
> > FAX
(714) 824-2450
> >
> >
dmallory@uci.edu
> >
> >
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>http://www.arts.uci.edu
> >
> >
</color></center>
> >
--
And now, a
shameless plug for my workplace!
Before you buy:
http://www.compare.net/
Information is
Power
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
SAA11052
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:45:42 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: delete at will: pome final version
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
restrained, as
wheel chairs bound,
looking slack jawed in the camera's lens
oblivious,
the shutter snaps
his consciousness,
a naked bulb-
waning,
burning out.
just when i thought it safe,
my childhood opens it's eyes again-
my father was mostly vacant then,
coming home long past dinner time
training smoke and whiskey fumes
(on way in, way out):
trained his back on mother's rage,
her bitter battlefield once more.
my father was a tin man,
traveling salesman,
the perfect con of responsibility-
he chose a living on the road
to keep him family-free.
this man, who picked me up from bus
circa '68
having, like him fled, and then returned,
leaned over, whispering,
"if i had my life to live over again,
i'd never have been a family man,"
( annihilating me.)
the last time i saw my father
we fought - over what, i can't recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up, unable to leave.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid head in my lap
sparking memories into distant past,
that further distance brought.
estranged
all these past four years
(i moved up north
he moved
south)-
thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo except me
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always a billfold
snap shot of mom and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now so little is left,
leaving
vacancy-
no connection,
dislocation,
my silent
shatteringscreams within-
and
the urge to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:50:52 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maggie Gerrity <u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats and the Lost Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sorry for posting this, but I tried to email
Patrick privately and
it came back for
some reason. If you get this message, please email me
privately at
u2ginsberg@hotmail.com
Oh, and I think we're as likely to each
receive $1000 as we are to
see Allen
Ginsberg walking through the Village! I
receive enough of
these pointless
forwards as it is, I sure as hell don't want to be
receiving any
from someone on a list that's about one of my true
passions, Beat
Literature. This should be a spam-free list, whoever
posted that!
Okay, now on to my message:
Patrick--
I'd be interested in discussing the
possibilities of a book with
you, and must
also mention that I'm planning to seek publication for
an anthology of
Allen Ginsberg's work entitled "Love, Death, and the
Teachings of
Allen Ginsberg." Email me privately at the address above
and we'll discuss
my options in more detail.
***
Sorry about the should've been private
message, but technololgy
seemed to blow up
in my face yesterday when I tried to send it
privately.
Maggie G.
==
"In dreams
begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:51:55 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: cake
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Thomas Van
Moortel wrote:
> There is
such a weed as 'sweet william'?
=== yes.
> I have
difficulties seeing William S. Burrough as a 'sweet'
> man because
having sex with boys that were, I can't remember, 10, 12
> years old
must've caused them physical pain
=== You proceed
from a false assumption. WSB was just as much a bottom
as a top. Often
mutual oral was sufficient for him anyway....
> Nonetheless
> I have an
enormous respect for the writer/artist W.S.B.
=== They should
be naming this airport after him instead of Ronald
Reagan..... All
in good time, though.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea,KY
let. it. come.
down.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:07:47 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
JSH wrote:
> === It was
his father, William S.Burroughs the
> first.
Invented it in 1886.
and Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
>
> No.
>
> This is
simple factual info. Look up any
reference book.
and JSH responds:
=== I've seen it
listed as alternately being his father and grandfather
in assorted
places......I honestly can't remember what led to me to go
with putting more
stock in the "grandfather" reports, but I will dig up
my copy of
"Literary Outlaw" when I get back home tonight and check what
it says.....you
could be right, now that I think about it.
=-=-=-=-=-=
j.s.h. (ky)
ding ding ding
=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:40:41 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Just called my
friend Doraemon and she sez it's definitely his
grandfather, and
she knows more about WSB than almost anyone, so I'll
cleave to her
word. She did say that Morgan's book makes the matter a
little confusing
with some clumsy phrasing, so that may be where I got
the false
impression....
ok, ok, so insert
'grandfather' in there...
"But
Dr.Benway, isn't the appendix on the *other* side???"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeff Holland and
a bottle of
Cognac
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:04:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT
WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE
GLAD YOU DID! (fwd)]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:18 AM
2/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,
this about the tenth time I've received this obviously
>fake email
message. . . Let's begin with a lesson
in Bullshit Detection
>101.
>
>1) Check the
source. No where on Microsoft's site is
this "BETA" program
>mentioned. .
. It's a load of crap.
>
>2) Consider
the name of the program. . . BETA? Duh, even Microsoft
>wouldn't name
a program BETA. . . that's like Chevy
trying to sell their
>Nova in South
America (Nova = "doesn't go"
in Spanish).
>
>3) Do
yourself a favor and READ the message before you forward it. . . Mr.
>Gates,
pie-faced though he may be, can spell better than this--at first
>count, at
least five spelling errors and typos.
And the grammar. . . jeez,
>are you
really that gullible?
>
>The purpose
of letters like this are to simply feed the spam mills of
>unscrupulous
people. They manage to get the letter at
the end of the cycle
>and then suck
all of the email addresses from it. . .
Then they compile
>their own
list and sell it to every other spammer on the web. You and
>everyone else
who contributed to this idiocy have handed yourself over to
>someone
simply because they promised you a $1000 bucks and Microsoft's
>latest piece
of bloatware. Wake up (and spare us from
your stupidity).
>
>'Tis better
NOT to send email and let others think you a fool than to send
>it and prove
them right.
>
>Bruce W.
Hartman, Jr.
>the.lunatic@lunatic-media.com
>http://www.lunatic-media.com
>
>
Whaddya talkin'
about? Hes real, I'd know Billy Bob's
signature
syntax errors
anywhere. This guy is the world's
biggest geek
and dweeb. He would do something like this, a real life
Sterling
Holloway.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:35:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT
WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE
GLAD YOU DID! (fwd)]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I received my
version of windows 99 and a check for 10,000 dollars this morning.
Like wow man
(psuedo beatnik phraseology defines message as "BEATRELATED").
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:17:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: one-liners and "me too"
posts
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 05:05 PM
2/5/98 +0100, you wrote:
>All these
quickie posts ridiculing and commenting on the chain letter
>are even
worse spam than the chain letter itself.
>
>Even worse
are the posts that quote THE ENTIRE CHAIN LETTER ALL OVER
>AGAIN, as if
we needed another copy. No post ever
requires quoting the
>source letter
in its entirety, people, especially just to add one or two
>lines. Edit,
edit, edit!
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>j.s.holland
>he of the
clogged inbox
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>Your response
is entirely too short. Please go to your
trashpile of
spam, pull off a
particularly loathsome specimen, and copy and paste
it into your next
missive!
Thank you.
The Management
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:32:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: JUST RELEASED:
"al/ph/abet:(de)find"
Comments: To:
bohemian literature listserv <bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Just released
from House Press:
Derek Beaulieu's
"al/ph/abet: (de)find"
a an b c d e f g anh i j k l m n o p q r
s t th u v w x y z
**inspired by bp nichol's
"pataphysics" and a love of language,
"al/ph/abet:(de)find"
is a re-definition of a 28 letter alphabet based on
each individual
letter's emotions, past and personality**
hand printed linocut covers on art
stock
cerlox bound
limited edition of 28 signed and
numbered copies.
$20 each, shipping and handling
included
for more information, or to order please
contact derek beaulieu
via e-mail:
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca or dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
a an b c d e f g anh i j k l m n o p q r
s t th u v w x y z
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:37:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Spams & Flames
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The best thing to
do with flames and spams is to ignore them.
If you
want to make a
comment on them, don't send it to the list.
Send your
comments
privately to the flame thrower. If
someone receives 300
replies to his
flame in his incoming mail, he or she might think twice
before abusing
our list again.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:02:21 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: cake
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
a cake,
chocolate, a zillion candles. the
frosting is a variation of
coco fudge.
before supper,
soda crackers and cavier.
a glass of coke
cola and vod.
before supper,
damn sweet conversation.
after supper,
slightly incoherent rambling shit
that could be funny
as hell.
a wsb story
one thursday
evening i'm making lamb chops.
Tv news announces
that a hot pursuit is on.
desperate felon
is being chased from kansas city to lawrence.
We are on the kc
side of town.
william comes out
of the den, ok his bedroom where he is talking to the
boys
wayne and david.
gives us all a
nicely loaded gun to defend ourself and his hearth.
says by god,
don't answer the door without it.
Nice 38 laid by
the spatula. I tease him about the
favors.
later on the
news, felon had turned left, once he hit town,
stopping at a
corner so close that i could see it from the window
taking a hostage
of course. When i tried to let william
say
i told you
so. he as usual wasn't concerned with
that rubbage.
he wonder what
the desparado was packing.
william at
cottage
william is
setting up combining his new obsesssion with his old one.
He is positioning
a plyboard with bottles of ink suspended from it.
then stepping 15
feet back, well the bottles are small and william keeps
stepping closer
to actually hit it. On one shot william
wheels back and
his forhead is
splattered. david and i are sure that
some damn
richochet has got
him. but when the ink bottle burst, a
peice had flown
back and walloped
his third eye. "No. No. I'M OK." He testily says, with
a good size
blotch of indigo on his forehead.
William liked
driving through the country side. One of
the many reason
I think he was
happy in Lawrence. Sometimes he would
make up storys
about the houses
or people. In really whimisical moods,
we would look
at the clouds and
point out "looks likes". He
was a natual story
person. He worked his mind all the time. He wasn't just superstitious,
he believed in
magic. Soon after i meet him i told him
that he reminded
me of a ghost i
knew when i was a child. He did too. He was someone that
you could
seriously discuss magic, chance, and decency with.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:09:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 06:00 PM
2/5/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Burroughs
takes the opposite course intended for him by his father, who,
>in inventing
the adding machine and being single-handedly responsible
>for the
modernization of banks, has fired the starting gun of the race
>against time.
His Grampy was
the inventor of the Adding Machine, not his Pops, if I am not
mistaken.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:12:23 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Thomas Van Moortel
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
None
Subject: Re: cake
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> patricia,
thank you so much; these stories are wonderful glimpses into
>
"william" i often think of the weed "sweet william" when i
read your posts.
> you add
beauty and grace to this often cantankerous list.
> marie
Marie,
I suppose by
'weed' you mean marijuana? There is such
a weed as 'sweet
william'? I have difficulties seeing William S.
Burrough as a 'sweet'
man because
having sex with boys that were, I can't remember, 10, 12
years old must've
caused them physical pain, and I don't care what kinda
sex anybody is
into, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.
Nonetheless
I have an
enormous respect for the writer/artist W.S.B.
--Thomas
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:17:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 06:31 PM
2/5/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
>>
>> His
Grampy was the inventor of the Adding Machine, not his Pops, if I am not
>>
mistaken.
>
>=== It was
his father, William S.Burroughs the first. Invented it in
>1886.
>
No.
This is simple
factual info. Look up any reference
book.
Here is one
internet reference found from the www.bigtable.com site's search
engine (
http://www.bigtable.com/cgi-bin/htsearch)
from
http://www.hyperreal.org/wsb/bcorp.html
The Burroughs
Corp.
Bill Burroughs is
named after his grandfather, Wiliam Seward Burroughs, the
inventor of the
adding machine. Although
previous adding
machines were in existence none were considered reliable
until Burroughs
created one with a perforated
cylinder filled
with oil which acted as a hydraulic regulator on the handle
so that no matter
how sharply or slowly the handle
was pulled,
pressure exerted on the mechanism was the same.
William Seward
Burroughs the inventor died at age 43, not long before his
namesake was
born.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:04:52 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it was his
grandfather.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:23:32 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well, i wouldn't
put much stock in literary outlaw, as it is a real
peice of
CRAP. But william thought it was his
grandfather who invented
the adding
machine.
People told me, a
lot of people told me, what william was like. that he
hated women. That
he didn't like people. I put real
barriers between
william and me at
first. But after being a friend (and i
can say close
friend) for
twenty years i will give you what i saw
and knew. William
was incredibly
sweet, but not sentimental. He loved and
cared about his
friends. He loved me. He was a kind and affectionate
man. He would do
the sweet
thing. He cared a lot about the
importance of Johnson which
is an issue that
should be discussed a lot. What is being
a Johnson.
One thing is
keeping your word, being honorable, another is minding your
own freaking
business. The crap about name calling and putting someone
down is not
johnson. the crap about using crude
expressions to argue a
point or tell
someone off is not the way william used crude expressions.
Which of course
he did. He might use "he is a real
shit" What i noticed
about william and
allen were elegance and happily a lack of pretention.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:35:43 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: what the heck is happening in beat land
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This note may
seem contradictory, in the sense that it in itself is a
critical
judgement of the dialogue i have recently been observing on
this mail
list. In the past it seemed that i would
read my mail, and
find myself
enthralled with the subject matter and indepth perspectives.
As of late however
I have found myself deleting my mail, based on the
fact that most of
it is critical judgements on other people's points of
view. It is essential to express our perceptions on
this list, but with
more and more
criticism, people will feel less and less open to doing
this. Instead people are becoming defensive and
concentrating on right
and wrong. I think it would be a sincere step in the
right direction if
people would
refrain from concentrating on why others are wrong, and
would instead
tell us what they are experiencing.
This obviously
doesn't apply to everyone, but the negative direction
seems to be a
progressive trend.
Thanks to anyone
who listened.
any thoughts?
Eric Douglas
Mayhew
mayhewe@sonoma.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:56:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
delete at will: pome final version
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Wow
That is one great and sad poem! I can
relate- never having known my
father and not
seeing him from the time i was four until they laid him in his
grave. Thanks for
saying all that.
GT
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:34:50 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Huncke & WSB & morphine
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Beat Listers:
The following
post, (from Ben Schafer the Editor of The Herbert Hunke
Reader) should
answer the questions and clarify the speculation regarding
whether Huncke
did, or did not, introduce WSB to morphine.
> Hey Jo,
>
> Yeah, Huncke introduced WSB to morphine
the first time they met, in
> 1944 in Huncke and Phil White's
("Sailor" in Naked Lunch) apartment on
> Henry Street. Huncke was very suspicious of WSB at first,
thinking he
> was an FBI agent, but when Burroughs
revealed he was carrying morphine
> syrettes, the very same kind Huncke and
Phil White had been using
> while away at sea (stolen from the
lifeboats), he put his distrust
> aside for the time being. That was the first of many times they used
> together.
Later when they lived in Texas together they used a lot of
> benzedrine, grass, and paregoric. It took a long time for Huncke to
> trust Burroughs -- Huncke felt he was
being used as a showcase to an
> extent, but over the years he developed an
immense respect for him.
> He told me that Burroughs was by far the
most intelligent man he'd
> ever known.
>
> Hope you're well,
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:38:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: [Fwd: Rejected posting to BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Return-Path:
<>
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (cunyvm.cuny.edu [128.228.1.2])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id TAA24770
for <race@MIDUSA.NET>; Thu, 5 Feb
1998 19:22:30 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id:
<199802060122.TAA24770@mail.midusa.net>
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4)
with BSMTP id 3670; Thu, 05 Feb 98 20:18:38
EST
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 0669; Thu, 5
Feb 1998 20:18:38 -0500
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:18:38 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Rejected posting to
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To: Race ---
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
LISTSERV does not
allow the distribution of empty messages to a mailing list,
because some
users are unable to see the
"Subject:" field from the
original
message.
------------------------
Rejected message (17 lines) --------------------------
Return-Path:
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 0627; Thu,
5 Feb 1998 20:17:24 -0500
Received: from
mail.midusa.net by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP;
Thu, 05 Feb 98 20:17:23 EST
Received: from
services.midusa.net (node68.salina.midusa.net [206.28.169.68])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id TAA28397
for <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>;
Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:21:13 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
<34DA6459.7A1E@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb
1998 19:16:10 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Beat-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Zyprexa
Blues #135
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Emc.Fedex.Com:
020598:1
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:40:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Zarubnicky
<dmzarubnicky@FEDEX.COM>
Subject: CAROLYN
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
My boyfriend and
I were sitting around yesterday evening discussing the
anniversary of
Neal's death and our thoughts turned to Carolyn. Does
anyone know where
she is or what she is doing these days?
Last information
I rec'd, which
was off the dust jacket of _Off the Road_ was that she was
in London writing
and painting. Can anyone expand on
that? Was there any
public comment
from Carolyn when Allen or Bill passed away?
She is
still alive,
isn't she? I didn't miss something, did
I?
Also...If anyone
is interested, Kesey Productions has some great
"Neal
Cassady - Fast As I Can" T-shirts for $10.00...It's a bargain.
Thanks....
Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:42:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: And JUST ORDERED
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Guess I'd better
order a copy Derek.
Loved the Johnson
print.
Also, wiped
myself out buying an Art Speigleman print, "Beaus and Eros" as
a gift for my
wife of Valentines Day.
I'll get a check
off to you in a few days.
I'm being pushed
to the extreme by some work. If you don'e have a check in
a week of so,
post me a reminder. BUT I'M BUYING ONE SO SET A LOW NUMNBER
ASIDE.
Thanks,
j grant
>Just released
from House Press:
>
>Derek
Beaulieu's "al/ph/abet: (de)find"
>
> a an b c d e f g anh i j k l m n o p q r
s t th u v w x y z
> **inspired by bp nichol's
"pataphysics" and a love of language,
>"al/ph/abet:(de)find"
is a re-definition of a 28 letter alphabet based on
>each
individual letter's emotions, past and personality**
>
> hand printed linocut covers on art stock
> cerlox bound
> limited edition of 28 signed and
numbered copies.
> $20 each, shipping and handling
included
> for more information, or to order
please contact derek beaulieu
>via e-mail:
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca or dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
> a an b c d e f g anh i j k l m n o p q r
s t th u v w x y z
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>derek
beaulieu
>c/o house
press
>apt.502 728
3rd ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
>email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
>phone
(403)270-4440
>_______________________________________________________________________________
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[152.163.195.87]
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:03:46 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Beaver-Seitz
<hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: see
ya
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well folks, I
guess this is goodbye.
because of a few
reasons (from computer troubles to lack of time) i'll
be unsubscribing
to beat-l soon.
i learned a lot
from the posts here and i hope somebody'll email me if
something crazy
happens (like allen ginsberg is found to be alive and
well, running a
gas station in montana with elvis).
remember to check
out Ginsberg etc often, it's constantly being updated
and added to.
peace,
greg
hookooekoo@hotmail.com
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Ginsberg
etc. *
*
http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry *
* Dozens of
poems, pictures, info *
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * *
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:47:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:07 PM
2/5/98 +0100, you wrote:
>JSH wrote:
>
>> === It
was his father, William S.Burroughs the
>> first.
Invented it in 1886.
>
>
>and Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>> This is
simple factual info. Look up any
reference book.
>
>
>
>and JSH
responds:
>
>=== I've seen
it listed as alternately being his father and grandfather
>in assorted
places......I honestly can't remember what led to me to go
>with putting
more stock in the "grandfather" reports, but I will dig up
>my copy of
"Literary Outlaw" when I get back home tonight and check what
>it
says.....you could be right, now that I think about it.
>
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=
>j.s.h. (ky)
>ding ding
ding
>=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>Now I have a
similar question. Was the Gerald Du Maurier
who wrote
Trilby, the novel
that contained the evil Svengali; wass
this the
father or
grandfather of Daphne Du Maurier. I've
read her biography
but still can't
keep it straight in my mind.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:21:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Interesting note
tonight as I was flipping through the channels and came
across david
Bowie performing on E! During "I'm
Afraid of Americans" on
the screen behind
him which kept showing various images of the flag and
our contiguous
U.S. flashed Old Bull himself, reading, superimposed over
the billowing
flag. I didn't know Bowie was a fan, but
I'm not surprised.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:07:28 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Claptrap AND something else
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Julian,
I suspect that
the title for the Kerouac CD comes from the passage in _On
the Road_ where
Sal finds himself regreting his white-man's world,
"wishing I
were a Negro, feeling that the best the white world offered was
not enough
ecstasy for me, not enough life, joy, kicks, darkness, music,
not enough
night" (p. 180).
Cordially,
Mike Skau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 07:24:37 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: delete at will: pome final version
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thank you, gene.
it's people like
you who help me keep on posting my poetry on this often
volatile list.
marie
Gene Lee wrote:
> Wow
> That is one great and sad poem! I
can relate- never having known my
> father and
not seeing him from the time i was four until they laid him in his
> grave.
Thanks for saying all that.
> GT
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:04:37 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
when next you
find yrself at that brown building please have the receptionist
make an
appointment for me.
i dream through
the dreams of others,
having had no
dreams for years..
mc
Sad Enigma wrote:
> last
night i had a dream that i came to this large brown building and
there
> was a
receptionists desk with a clerk and everything
and she made me an
> appointment
to talk to william after i died. pretty
weird i'd say. have
> a nice night
>
> <3
> chad
>
> i play too hard when i really gotta sleep
> they pick on me cause i really got the beat
> some people call me a creep
> (we're desperate
by: X)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 03:14:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sad Enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
last night i had a dream
that i came to this large brown building and there
was a
receptionists desk with a clerk and everything
and she made me an
appointment to
talk to william after i died. pretty
weird i'd say. have
a nice night
<3
chad
i play too hard when i really gotta sleep
they pick on me cause i really got the beat
some people call me a creep
(we're desperate
by: X)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
IAA10821
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:36:05 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: pome: delete at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
final edition
(yes i know i've said this before, but this is it:
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
restrained, as
wheel chairs bound,
slack jawed in the camera's lens
oblivious,
the shutter snaps
a photo of
his consciousness
so dim,
a naked porch light
burning out.
just when i thought it safe,
old memories attack again
my father was mostly vacant then,
coming home, if at all,
long past supper time
(trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in,
turning
his back on my mother's rage
on way out).
my father was a tin man,
traveling salesman,
the perfect con of responsibility-
to chose a living on the road
to keep him family-free.
the last time i saw my father
was
four years ago, or more.
we fought -
over what, i can't recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking the ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up,
and so succumbed once more.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid head in my lap
sparking memories of our distant past,
that further distance brought.
estranged
all these past years
(i moved up north
he moved
south)-
both thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo -except me-
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always a billfold
snap shot of mom and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now nothing is left,
leaving
vacancy-
no connection,
dislocation,
my silent
shatteringscreams within-
and
the urge to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
IAA14837
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:51:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: apologies, poem, delete/wrong version
sent previously
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
why oh why do i
have to go through so much drunken turmoil in
order to write
like this?
i woke up this
morning and sat down and completely revised the
damned thing
without a pause. same goes for the other pome
included.
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
(restrained, and
wheel chair bound),
slack-jawed into the camera's lens
oblivious,
the shutter snaps
a photo of
his consciousness
a naked porch light
dim,
slowly burning out.
just when i thought it safe,
old memories attack again
my father was mostly vacant then,
coming home, if at all,
long past supper time
(trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in,
turning
his back on my mother's rage
on way out).
my father was a tin man,
traveling salesman,
the perfect con of responsibility-
to chose a living on the road
to keep him family-free.
the last time i saw my father
was four years ago, or more.
we fought -
over what, i can't recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking the ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up,
and so succumbed once more.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid head in my lap
sparking memories of forgotten past,
that further distance brought.
estranged
all these past years
(i moved up north
he moved
south)-
both thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo -except me-
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always a billfold
snap shot of mom and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now nothing left,
vacancy-
no connection,
dislocation,
my silent
shatteringscreams within-
and
the urge to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:05:52 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Mixed Visions of Cody & Gerard (was
Re: An anniversary eulogy
(fwd))
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Leon Tabory
wrote:
> BTW the
other day someone again stated that Neal
lived only for
> himself, or
> cared only
for himself, something to that effect. I gave up on
> responding
to
> such
declarations, but at the end of the 30th anniversary of his death
> t is
> too sad to
leave such opinions unanswered.
>
> Throughout
all his adventures and misadventures Neal was constant about
> staying
high, keeping on moving, and GIVING ALL OF HIMSELF AWAY. I
> haven't
> known
another person in my lifetime who was as ready as Neal was to
> give,
> and who
asked for as little in return.
Leon,
For me you
brought up an excellent point for discussion.
In _Visions of
Gerard_, Kerouac
writes of the innate goodness of Gerard,
"--For the first
four years of my life, while he lived, I was not Ti Jean
Duluoz, I was
Gerard, the world was his face, the flower of his face, the
pale stooped
disposition, the heartbreakingness and the holiness and his
teachings of
tenderness to me, and my mother constantly reminding me to
pay attention to
his goodness and advice."
The goodness of
Gerard was one of innocence, kind to animals and humans,
close to God as
only perhaps the pure heart of a child can be.
The fact
that Gerard never
lived to adulthood causes the memory of him to be
always pure,
innocent, giving.
In _Visions of
Cody_ (VOC) Kerouac writes many times, "Cody is the
brother I
lost." This leads one to believe
that Jack found in Neal much
of the same
goodness he found in Gerard: "Cody
was so great, so good,
that I couldn't
believe--he was by far the greatest man I have ever
known...'
Beause Neal was
an adult, however, the goodness is tempered by
self-indulgences,
not so much that Neal cared only for himself, that
he wasn't compassionate
and giving, but that the childlike innocence of
Gerard cannot
exist in a man.
In VOC, Kerouac
writes, "Cody runs off to get tea from wife and also from
guilt for running
out, she waiting in the night, now sobs, I, drunk,
bring two girls into
Cody's dark house, we stand breathless by baby sleep
crib of little
Timmy Pomeray as Evelyn sobs and everything and throws us
out, and off we
go, two girls and Cody, and I, bleary, driving into the
woods of
California for orgy..."
I also just read
Carolyn Cassady's account of the same event in _Off the
Road_. Despite the fact that she loved Neal, she was
continually torn
apart by the fact
that he "lived" life in his own way, the same quality
that Kerouac
exults in the more mythic Cody. The fact that Neal "kept
giving himself
away" was a 'hurt' for his wife just as Gerard pushing the
little boy was a
'hurt.'for him. The kind of 'pureness of
spirit'
Kerouac
attributes to Gerard is probably only attainable by monks (but
that's another
story) and any human adult would fall considerably short
of it.
DC
The point I am
trying to come to here is that all adult lives are full of
self-indulgences--no
matter how hard we try at some point we inevitably
hurt the ones we
love; we lose the childlike wonder of goodness.
That is
contrasted
perfectly in comparing _Visions of Gerard_ and _Visions of
Cody_.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: JUST
RELEASED: "al/ph/abet:(de)find"
Cc:
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
Bcc: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980205142236.22892A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
#1MessageTransCricketsReading...
br brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr Brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr Brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
Brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr br brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr Brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr Brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr Brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr
brbr brbr brbr brbr brbr br
br br
br
3 ^
^ ^
3 ^
^ ^brbr
5 ^
^ ^ ^ ^
3 ^
^ ^
...
_____________
derek writes:
>Just released
from House Press:
>
>Derek
Beaulieu's "al/ph/abet: (de)find"
>
> a an b c d e f g anh i j k l m n o p q r
s t th u v w x y z
> **inspired by bp nichol's
"pataphysics" and a love of language,
>"al/ph/abet:(de)find"
is a re-definition of a 28 letter alphabet based on
>each
individual letter's emotions, past and personality**
>
> hand printed linocut covers on art
stock
> cerlox bound
> limited edition of 28 signed and
numbered copies.
> $20 each, shipping and handling
included
> for more information, or to order
please contact derek beaulieu
>via e-mail:
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca or dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
> a an b c d e f g anh i j k l m n o p q r
s t th u v w x y z
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>derek
beaulieu
>c/o house
press
>apt.502 728
3rd ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
>email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
>phone
(403)270-4440
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 04:40:07 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 06
Feb 1998 10:31:13...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Fri, 06 Feb 1998 10:31:13 +0100 with subject "Re: JUST
RELEASED:
"al/ph/abet:(de)find"" has been successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (254
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 05:31:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Rejected posting to
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:38 PM
2/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Return-Path:
<>
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (cunyvm.cuny.edu [128.228.1.2])
> by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id TAA24770
> for <race@MIDUSA.NET>; Thu, 5 Feb
1998 19:22:30 -0600 (CST)
>Message-Id:
<199802060122.TAA24770@mail.midusa.net>
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4)
> with BSMTP id 3670; Thu, 05 Feb 98 20:18:38
EST
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@CUNYVM) by
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 0669; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:18:38 -0500
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:18:38 -0500
>From:
"L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8c)"
>
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Subject: Rejected posting to
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>To: Race ---
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
>
>LISTSERV does
not allow the distribution of empty messages to a mailing list,
>because some
users are unable to see the
"Subject:" field from the
original
>message.
>
>------------------------
Rejected message (17 lines)
--------------------------
>Return-Path:
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Received:
from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
> V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 0627; Thu,
5 Feb 1998 20:17:24 -0500
>Received:
from mail.midusa.net by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with
TCP;
> Thu, 05 Feb 98 20:17:23 EST
>Received:
from services.midusa.net (node68.salina.midusa.net [206.28.169.68])
> by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id TAA28397
> for <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>;
Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:21:13 -0600 (CST)
>Message-ID:
<34DA6459.7A1E@midusa.net>
>Date: Thu, 05
Feb 1998 19:16:10 -0600
>From: David
Bruce Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
>Organization:
smiling small thoughts
>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
>MIME-Version:
1.0
>To: Beat-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Subject:
Zyprexa Blues #135
>
>
If it was
rejected, then how come I've got it.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
podulkca@uwec.edu
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 05:49:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathrine Podulke
<podulkca@UWEC.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Rejected posting to
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What was
rejected?
I subscribed to
the mailing list, but I didn't send anything else.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-MD5:
yhGh8TF5pKWOy/jij5a9Mg==
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:09:33 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao
<nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bowie made an
entire album of songs where the lyrics were all cut-ups. I forget
the title but it
is from the seventies just after the Ziggy Stardust period I
believe.
Nic
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:52:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<sk312@pophost.city.ac.uk>
From: daniel fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i think it
bowie's cut-up lyrics were on diamond dogs.
daniel
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:26:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: what the heck is happening in beat
land
Comments: To:
eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I confess that I
delete 95% of what is posted...
On Thu, 5 Feb
1998, eric mayhew wrote:
> This note
may seem contradictory, in the sense that it in itself is a
> critical
judgement of the dialogue i have recently been observing on
> this mail
list. In the past it seemed that i would
read my mail, and
> find myself
enthralled with the subject matter and indepth perspectives.
> As of late
however I have found myself deleting my mail, based on the
> fact that
most of it is critical judgements on other people's points of
> view. It is essential to express our perceptions on
this list, but with
> more and
more criticism, people will feel less and less open to doing
> this. Instead people are becoming defensive and
concentrating on right
> and
wrong. I think it would be a sincere
step in the right direction if
> people would
refrain from concentrating on why others are wrong, and
> would instead
tell us what they are experiencing.
> This
obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but the negative direction
> seems to be
a progressive trend.
> Thanks to
anyone who listened.
>
> any
thoughts?
>
> Eric Douglas
Mayhew
>
mayhewe@sonoma.edu
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:58:55 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: CAROLYN
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
carolyn's just
fine in england as was written. she's
working on a film
script, as she's
been unhappy with other 'beat' film treatments.
her childern and
grandchildern live in the US and she visits them
regularly
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
PAA14745
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:25:20 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: my god, i'd want to delete this by now!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i promise no
more.
to my poor
battered psyche
and the battered
door of beat-l
working out my
feelings into poetic form seems beat enough to me, but
i'm beat. and so
here goes:
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
(restrained, and
wheel chair bound),
slack-jawed into the camera's lens
oblivious, the shutter snaps
a photo of
his consciousness-
a
porch light
growing dim.
just when i thought it safe,
old memories attack
he was mostly vacant then,
coming home, if at all,
long past supper time
(trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in,
turning
back on mother's rage
on way out) again.
my father was a tin man,
traveling salesman,
the consummate con man
who chose
a career out of necessity
while shirking his responsibilities-
living his life in bars on the road
to keep him family-free.
the last time i saw my father
was four years ago, or more.
we fought -
over what, i can't recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking the ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up,
and so succumbed once more.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid his head
upon my lap
sparking memories of forgotten past,
that further distance brought.
estranged
all these past years
(i moved up north
he, south)-
both thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo -except me-
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always a billfold
snap shot of mom and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now nothing left,
vacancy-
no connection,
dislocation,
my silent
shatteringscreams within-
and
the urge to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:50:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Main <Mainbooks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: aol.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Can you tell me
how to cancel my subscription to this list. Beat-L, thanks, J.
Main
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:11:35 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: more Naked Lunch text variants
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I was browsing in
a bookstore today and saw the latest printing of
WSB's Naked
Lunch. Looks like the text has been changed yet again!
Although it still
says "First Evergreen Edition 1992" on the copyright
page, the entire
text appears to have been reset in comparison with
the 3rd printing
(the copy I have at home) of what is supposedly the
same edition (and
indeed the page numbers for certain passages of text
are different).
In addition, the selections from the Mass. obscenity
trial have been
added back, which means that the page numbers for the
Introduction are
different as well.
As for the
particular changes I noted earlier, at least one has been
changed yet
again:
a vast hive --> vast hives --> a vast
hives
They keep
screwing it up worse and worse.
So it appears
that all hope for bibliographic accuracy is lost with
respect to Naked
Lunch.
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:09:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: "SEA, Part Two, the sounds of the
Atlantic at X, Brittany"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I was wondering
if any of the scholars on the list
know of/have
seen, etc., anything in Kerouac's
archives about
his plan to continue "SEA: Sounds of
the Pacific Ocean
at Big Sur?" I was recently
perusing
through _Satori
in Paris_ and he mentions his plans
to continue this
after leaving Paris, but nothing is
mentioned further
on in the novel (from what I
remember). Kerouac also mentions this during the
Jarvis/Curtis
radio interview in Lowell, in September
of 1962. I don't remember seeing anything in any
of the bio's etc.
regarding any further work on this.
Has anyone seen
any further work in the archives?
Enquiring minds
want to know. . .
Mike
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
delete at will: pome final version
Cc:
Bcc: Marie
Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802052348.SAA11052@pike.sover.net>
References:
Marie Countryman
wrote a pome titled:
> my father's eyes
>
Marie today by
synch i've read an article-interviewed Eric Clapton
q: You wrote some songs of "Pilgrim"
after your son Conor's death. What?
a: I wrote the piece "My fathers's eyes"
during the time of "unolugged". It
is
the second song on my son.
Conor was the
little son of Clapton and Lory Del Santo
an italian
actress. Conor died infant.
marie, while
reading the newspaper remember yr pome,
cari saluti a te
e tutti gli amici,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:14:13 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 06
Feb 1998 22:39:05...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Fri, 06 Feb 1998 22:39:05 +0100
with subject "Re: delete
at will: pome
final version" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (252
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:56:06 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: poem/pome
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it actually has
some literary sources, but it's just always been a
private,
idiosyncratic spelling of my own.
Julian Ruck
wrote:
> just curious....is there a reason behind the
alternate spelling to
>
"poem"...
> or is it like "kool" and
"phat"?
> -julian
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.174]
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:32:45 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: poem/pome
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
just curious....is there a reason behind the
alternate spelling to
"poem"...
or is it like "kool" and
"phat"?
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:49:33 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: poem/pome
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Julian,
James Joyce
published a collection he entitled _Pomes Penyeach_.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
On Fri, 6 Feb
1998, Julian Ruck wrote:
> just curious....is there a reason behind the
alternate spelling to
>
"poem"...
> or is it like "kool" and
"phat"?
> -julian
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.17.16
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:54:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
howdeedoo all,
have i been
blackballed from the list? nobody has
responded to any of my
postings.
i also have a question as to the exact
circumstances of Kerouac's death. i'm
sure
i'll find my
answer when i read one of the several biographies, but if anyone is
willing to answer
the question now, it would be great.
thanks y'all(i
hope),
Al
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
>From
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Sat Feb 7
08:27:50 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Received: from
SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.101 #2) id m0y14g1-000s8HC; Sat,
7 Feb 1998 08:27:49 +0100 (MET)
Received: from
segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.16) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)
with SMTP id <14.BC20BE45@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 8:27:47 +0100
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8c) with
NJE id 4869 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 02:28:01 -0500
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP3@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2647; Sat,
7 Feb 1998 02:27:03 -0500
Received: from
mail.midusa.net by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP;
Sat, 07 Feb 98 02:27:03 EST
Received: from
services.midusa.net (node9.salina.midusa.net [206.28.169.9]) by
mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id BAA21791; Sat, 7 Feb 1998
01:31:06 -0600 (CST)
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Message-ID: <34DC0C7F.450B@midusa.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 01:25:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: A vast hive/vast hives/a vast hives
Comments: cc:
0Stine <StineKC@aol.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
the distinctions
Jeff Taylor catches are real.
1) a vast hive:
what christopher
milne dreamed of winnie the pooh dreaming of and his
father A.A. wrote
down.
2) vast hives:
what i had when i
tried to quit smoking cigarettes cold turkey back in
the Sears Roebuck
farmhouse.
3) a vast hives:
(i think this is on it's way to a transmorgrification
in which vast
will change into some form of noun rather than adjective
and hives changes
to lives. perhaps "a past
lives". a message of
regeneration,
ressurection, re-birth --- but we ain't to that
mistranslation
yet thank jesus.
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 02:48:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Preface Poem
Comments: cc:
"ptrax@midusa.net" <ptrax@midusa.net>,
Al Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>, ABILENE
<dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>,
0Stine <StineKC@aol.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"Preface"
July 1997
copyright david
bruce rhaesa
There's No Grace
in Victory
I
I LOVE This City
A Shadow Touched
by Light Must
Disappear
This is a
Decalartion of War
The Heaven &
Earth
Men kill Men are
killed
One Who Revels in
Bloodshed
is Incapable in Ruling the
World
"_"
Will Fail in his Ambition
TV is
"a" wonderful invention
On my own damned authority
He's like a phantom
& he'll take a fall
It was not your
place to save
him
Your life is not
your
possession
a
m
o
r
p
h
o
u
silent
isolated entity
perpetual motion
I can't find the
words
They will come.
2 Be orphaned and
alone
and unworthy is
the worst thing a man
call feel
U Must learn 2
see w/more
then your eyes
(then your I's)
U must come w/me now
Take Off Your Clothes
That's What Turns U On
P O W E R
A Name Can Be
Changed
but not one's Soul
Splinter's of Black
Shadows into Dark
DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb
1998 03:05:14 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: Zarefsky
<d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>, ZAC <zachery_anderson@hotmail.com>,
"WTeller692@aol.com"
<WTeller692@aol.com>,
William E Newnam
<wnewnam@emory.edu>,
WILD_BILL
<Bill.Henderson@uni.edu>,
wichitastate
<jarman@elliott.es.twsu.edu>,
Virgil Balthrop <vwb@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>,
Thin <jeffrt@wichita.infi.net>,
JTalley4n6@aol.com, steveMgriffin
<sgriffin@law.tulane.edu>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
starwars <Brian_Stucky@ers.com>,
star <smuir@OSF1.GMU.EDU>,
slypork <dscunningham@nwu.edu>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu,
seward23 <seward23@aol.com>,
seed2 <sksdallas@aol.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>, Scott
Deatherage <lsd041@nwu.edu>,
runnersplanet
<Steve.Thompson@usd305.com>,
roDger <rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>,
ROC <kai@informatics.net>,
Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
reynaldo <rgarcia@tacc.org>,
reicherT <ReicherT@nasd.com>,
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"RandyStace@aol.com"
<RandyStace@aol.com>,
Randy Lake
<rlake@almaak.usc.edu>, principal <dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
presbynorthKS
<pby_northern_kansas.parti@pcusa.org>,
phares@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU, NELSONj
<john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
neckermank
<neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Nathan Coco <ncoco@mwe.com>,
mignoli <docmignoli@aol.com>,
"Meyer, Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>, meany <JKM1993@aol.com>,
louise_brokaw
<PBY_EAST_IOWA@pcusa.org>,
"lingel, dan" <dlingel@why.net>,
Linda Powell <Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>,
LexingtonHS
<L_Phillips@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us>, brooklyn@netcom.com,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Lassie <dkpenn@oees.com>,
kevin kuswa
<k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
"Kent A. Ono"
<kaono@ucdavis.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
jd.rollins@mail.utexas.edu, jo grant
<jgrant@bookzen.com>,
"jb&mlarn@midkan.com"
<jb&mlarn@midkan.com>,
HARMON <debate@midusa.net>,
Gordon Mitchell <gordonm+@PITT.EDU>,
Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
"Eric L. Krug"
<elkrug@kcnet.com>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
Edward Schiappa
<schia001@gold.tc.umn.edu>,
Ed Panetta
<EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>,
Echrist
<ELChristensen@SNOPUD.com>,
"Dr. Roald Tweet x7467"
<ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>,
designatedhitter
<STRICKLG@esumail.emporia.edu>,
Cori Dauber
<cdauber@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>, coffeebreak <reichart@att.com>,
Clune <a871@fhsu.edu>, cindy
<RevCynthia@aol.com>,
charlesSmith
<cmsmith126@aol.com>,
carlin
<prentice@falcoln.cc.ukans.edu>,
Bruce Gronbeck <gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
BrentT <Bthomp4444@aol.com>, Bob
Stone <bstone@terraworld.net>,
Becky Galentine
<theloft@ACCESSONE.COM>, BEAR <MWBRYANT@aol.com>,
baker <SMDebate@aol.com>,
auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>
Subject: [Fwd:
Preface Poem]
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<34DC1FC5.5483@midusa.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb
1998 02:48:05 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Beat-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
CC:
"ptrax@midusa.net" <ptrax@midusa.net>,
Al Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>, ABILENE
<dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>,
0Stine <StineKC@aol.com>
Subject: Preface
Poem
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
"Preface"
July 1997
copyright david
bruce rhaesa
There's No Grace
in Victory
I
I LOVE This City
A Shadow Touched
by Light Must
Disappear
This is a
Decalartion of War
The Heaven &
Earth
Men kill Men are
killed
One Who Revels in
Bloodshed
is Incapable in Ruling the
World
"_"
Will Fail in his Ambition
TV is
"a" wonderful invention
On my own damned authority
He's like a phantom
& he'll take a fall
It was not your
place to save
him
Your life is not
your
possession
a
m
o
r
p
h
o
u
silent
isolated entity
perpetual motion
I can't find the
words
They will come.
2 Be orphaned and
alone
and
unworthy is
the worst thing a man
call feel
U Must learn 2
see w/more
then your eyes
(then your I's)
U must come w/me now
Take Off Your Clothes
That's What Turns U On
P O W E R
A Name Can Be
Changed
but not one's Soul
Splinter's of
Black
Shadows into Dark
DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
JAA00988
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:46:07 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: diane carter/pome/delete
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
lost yr address
diane: but here is the finished pome, including yr
suggestion, and
that of many others:
i received so
many emails from you guys, thinking i tore the heart out
of the poem by
deleting my father's conversation with me, that finally i
found a graceful
(i hope) way to insert it.
so
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
(restrained, and
wheel chair bound),
slack-jawed into the camera's lens
oblivious, the shutter snaps
a photo of
his consciousness-
a
porch light
growing dim.
just when i thought it safe,
old
memories attack
he was mostly vacant then,
coming home, if at all,
long past supper time
(trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in,
turning
back on mother's rage
on way out) again.
my father was a tin man,
a traveling salesman,
who conned respectability
who shirked reponsibility
living a separate life in bars
on
road,
to keep him family-free.
"if i had my life to live again,
i'd never have been a family man"
(thus annhilating me).
the last time i saw my father
was four years ago, or more.
we fought -
over what, i can't recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking the ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up,
and so succumbed once more.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid his head
upon my lap
sparking memories of forgotten past,
that further distance brought.
estranged
all these past years
(i moved up north
he, south)-
both thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo -except me-
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always a billfold
snap shot of mom and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he
told so little to me
and now nothing left,
vacancy-
no connection,
dislocation,
my silent
shatteringscreams within-
and
the urge to flee.
(c) 2/4/98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 05:31:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac and Beat Calender
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html>Hello,
Just updated the
calender of Kerouac and Beat events around the world, one in
Czechoslovakia,
and another in the Netherlands, and of course the Ginsberg
memorial in Central
Park in June.
later and enjoy,
Attila
<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/calender.html">Jack
Kerouac
Calender and
events</A>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:52:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: pome/poem
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i don't know why
either, and have been curious for a while. on kicks joy
darkness, my
favorite piece is this goofy pomes by jack kerouac, recited by
julianna
hatfield. that's where i first came across the alternative spelling.
i haven't yet
seen it in literature, but then i'm not so well-read in beat,
relatively
speaking.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 11:45:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mixed Visions of Cody & Gerard
(was Re: An anniversary eulogy
(fwd))
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Until reading the
Huncke reader, I never knew that Allen and Neal were
lovers at one
point...any truth to this?
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:57:19 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Thomas Van Moortel
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
None
Subject: Re: Mixed Visions of Cody & Gerard
(was Re: An anniversary eulogy
(fwd))
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
>
> Until
reading the Huncke reader, I never knew that Allen and Neal were
> lovers at
one point...any truth to this?
Yes, I at least
remember one occasion on which Carolyn Cassady caught
the two of them
together in bed. She was quite shocked
and asked him
to leave the
house immediately, which he did. It's
all in her book
'Off The Road'.
--Thomas Van
Moortel
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:01:03 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Thanks for the
info, Jym.:) Do you or anyone else know where one can find a
collection of
Diane Di Prima's poems? Thanks, Sara
At 04:09 PM
2/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Sara Feustle
wrote:
>
>>
Stephanie,
>> Go to www.kerouac.com. (Also 1-800
KER-OUAC.) They have the most
>kick-ass
>>
catalogue of Beat stuff I've ever seen, including an entire book of Diane
>>
DiPrima's poems, entitled _Memoirs of a Beatnik_.
>> --Sara
>
>Don't be
misled, "Memoirs of a Beatnik" is not a collection of poems. It
>is
quasi-autobiography, quasi-erotica, and great fun...but *not* poems.
>
>Jym
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:04:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Main <Mainbooks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mixed Visions of Cody & Gerard
(was Re: An anniversary eulogy
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Try reading
"Off the Road" by Carolyn Cassady.
You will find details there.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:14:10 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Neil M. Hennessy
wrote:
> That's the
second time you've used the word "truth" in relation to
> Burroughs,
when "truth" in his writing from the Nova Trilogy onwards is a
> totally
bankrupt concept. Can you elaborate?
=== The answer
from my mind: Bankrupt? hmmm, never thought of it that
way. I wasn't
talking about "truth" in his writing, I was referring to
the quest for
truth in his personal life.
The answer from
my heart : Truth? TRUTH? Man, you can't put a dog collar
on truth and
expect it to act like Snoopy, man, Truth is TRUTH, you
know, I know what
I mean when I say "truth" and you know what you mean
when you say
"truth" and WSB knew what he meant too, but some of you
couldn't afford
the truth as you wanna hear it, man, it's OUT THERE
SOMEWHERE like
some cheap B-movie monster with quivering rubber teeth
and anyone with
half a brain is lookin' for it......WSB had a brain and
a half so he was
no doubt on a hotter trail and by God I think he found
it but it was a
doorway to the 19th century but you have to get past the
customs agents,
and WSB never liked customs agents. The truth is lolling
around on the
other side of that doorway eating little sandwiches and
waiting for
someone, ANYONE, to show up. In death, WSB may have made it
but that's a
squabble for another cobble.
> This
glorification of abjection is a project much closer to the
> Genet's
secular hagiography than anything Burroughs has written.
=== I see
glorification of abjection in virtually everything Burroughs
has ever written
- "Junky", "Queer", "Wild Boys", "Port of
Saints".....
> Burroughs'
art and writing cannot be reduced to mere aesthetics.
=== I was merely
giving my own personal take on his work. If that's
reducing it to
mere aesthetics, well, so be it.
> I'm
wondering where the preoccupation with what Burroughs "could have
> done"
comes from.
=== It's no
preoccupation, it's just my wandering mind stretching out
beyond the
spacetime continuum. I also wonder what Kerouac would have
written if he
hadn't died, what Ginsberg would've done if he had
followed WSB's
advice more often, and what would have happened if
Ferlinghetti
hadn't turned down 'Naked Lunch'. I wonder where my next
Reese's Cup is
coming from. I wonder if my novel will ever be published.
I wonder who
wrote the book of love. I wonder why she went away, and I
wonder where she
will stay. I wonder what's behind the green door.
=-=-=-=
JSH. ky.
there
are
nazis
on
the
moon
=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:17:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 10:54 PM
2/6/98 -0700, Al wrote:
> i also have
a question as to the exact circumstances
>of Kerouac's
death. i'm sure i'll find my answer when
>i read one of
the several biographies, but if anyone is
>willing to
answer the question now, it would be great.
hemorrhaging
esophageal varices
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:21:10 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, cut-ups, Dada
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Neil M. Hennessy
wrote:
> I don't
consider Burroughs' grandiose claims foolish. Prehaps the reason
> he never
convincingly articulated the original purpose of his cut-ups is
> due to the
paradoxical nature of his project: fighting the control of
> words with
words.
=== Exactly. What
could be more foolish than that? That's like holding
back the ocean
with a dam made of water. And I never
said there was
anything foolish
about fighting the control of words - WSB specifically
said he wanted to
"destroy language" - as if we'd all communicate via
telepathy or
something afterwards. From Tristan Tzara this statement is
expected, but
this was a bit of step for the usually level-headed WSB.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland
k e n t u c k y
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:42:29 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, Joyce, codes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Neil M. Hennessy
wrote:
>
> Two
assumptions in the above are extremely suspect, firstly that there is
> a definable
average reader, and secondly that any text can be fully
> understood,
"ordinary" or not.
=== Amend my
statement to read "average PERSON". And the average person,
in America
anyway, is barely even a reader at all. I agree with you that
no text can be
fully understood.
> You can't be
some kind
> of
hermeneutical detective with Burroughs
=== I can be a
hermeneutical detective with Louisa May Alcott, Beverly
Cleary, a bus
schedule, or a condom wrapper. So could WSB.
> the aleatory
syntactic structures of Burroughs' cut-up writing are
> introduced
to implicitly prevent the possibility of explication.
=== that is what
you say. I see it as just the opposite. Only the
skeleton is
presented, much of the meat is subjective.
=-=-=-=-=
j s h
kentucky
=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:47:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well i have a
copy of Rolling Stone #155 Feb.28, 1974 which includes (as
well as
"Fear and Loathing at the Superbowl" by Hunter S. Thompson)
"Beat
Godfather meets
Glitter Mainman: William Burroughs, say hello to David
Bowie",
which is wsb's interview of bowie - so there is histry there...
yrs
derek
Fri, 6 Feb 1998,
Alex Howard wrote:
> Interesting
note tonight as I was flipping through the channels and came
> across david
Bowie performing on E! During "I'm
Afraid of Americans" on
> the screen
behind him which kept showing various images of the flag and
> our
contiguous U.S. flashed Old Bull himself, reading, superimposed over
> the
billowing flag. I didn't know Bowie was
a fan, but I'm not surprised.
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:25:28 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Stephanie,
Go to www.kerouac.com. (Also 1-800
KER-OUAC.) They have the most kick-ass
catalogue of Beat
stuff I've ever seen, including an entire book of Diane
DiPrima's poems,
entitled _Memoirs of a Beatnik_.
--Sara
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:35:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Steve Edington
<Sedington@AOL.COM>
Subject: Hello
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello--I found
this today and thought I'd sign on. It looks good. Quick
Introduction: I'm
the minister of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Nashua,
NH; member of the
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Committee which puts on the annual
Kerouac Festival
in Lowell every October ("everyone goes home in October" JK
OTR) and am
teaching a course at the University of Massachusetts--Lowell on
"The
Literature of the Beat Movement." Have also written an short
book--30,000+
words--called "Kerouac's Nashua Connection" about JK's family
ties to Nashua and
Quebec, and how he portrays his extended family in his
Lowell novels.
Got a possible publisher looking at it now; it that doesn't fly
I'll probably
publish the thing myself.
I'm going to post
up--as a download--my syllabus for the Beat Movement course.
Its my first
venture at this kind of thing; would appreciate any feedback,
suggestions,
anyone out there may have as I hope to be doing this every other
semester.
Best
wishes--Steve Edington
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\SYLLABUS.WPS"
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:40:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 10:54 PM
2/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>howdeedoo
all,
>
>have i been
blackballed from the list? nobody has
responded to any of my
> postings.
> i also have
a question as to the exact circumstances of Kerouac's death.
i'm
> sure
>i'll find my
answer when i read one of the several biographies, but if
anyone is
>willing to
answer the question now, it would be great.
>
>thanks
y'all(i hope),
>Al
>
He was sitting in
his sister's kitchen drinking a budweiser in
September or
October, 1969, when he had a heart attack, keeled
over and later
died. His sister, with whom he was
living, was
present when this
happened.
Mike Rice
>
>Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>http://www.mailexcite.com
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:02:59 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jeff: two hearts
beat alike re: truth. thanks for the explosive text defining.
beyyond me
tonight.
mc
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> Neil M.
Hennessy wrote:
>
> > That's
the second time you've used the word "truth" in relation to
> >
Burroughs, when "truth" in his writing from the Nova Trilogy onwards
is a
> > totally
bankrupt concept. Can you elaborate?
>
> === The
answer from my mind: Bankrupt? hmmm, never thought of it that
> way. I
wasn't talking about "truth" in his writing, I was referring to
> the quest
for truth in his personal life.
>
> The answer
from my heart : Truth? TRUTH? Man, you can't put a dog collar
> on truth and
expect it to act like Snoopy, man, Truth is TRUTH, you
> know, I know
what I mean when I say "truth" and you know what you mean
> when you say
"truth" and WSB knew what he meant too, but some of you
> couldn't
afford the truth as you wanna hear it, man, it's OUT THERE
> SOMEWHERE
like some cheap B-movie monster with quivering rubber teeth
> and anyone
with half a brain is lookin' for it......WSB had a brain and
> a half so he
was no doubt on a hotter trail and by God I think he found
> it but it
was a doorway to the 19th century but you have to get past the
> customs
agents, and WSB never liked customs agents. The truth is lolling
> around on
the other side of that doorway eating little sandwiches and
> waiting for
someone, ANYONE, to show up. In death, WSB may have made it
> but that's a
squabble for another cobble.
>
> > This
glorification of abjection is a project much closer to the
> > Genet's
secular hagiography than anything Burroughs has written.
>
> === I see
glorification of abjection in virtually everything Burroughs
> has ever
written - "Junky", "Queer", "Wild Boys",
"Port of Saints".....
>
> >
Burroughs' art and writing cannot be reduced to mere aesthetics.
>
> === I was
merely giving my own personal take on his work. If that's
> reducing it
to mere aesthetics, well, so be it.
>
> > I'm
wondering where the preoccupation with what Burroughs "could have
> >
done" comes from.
>
> === It's no
preoccupation, it's just my wandering mind stretching out
> beyond the
spacetime continuum. I also wonder what Kerouac would have
> written if
he hadn't died, what Ginsberg would've done if he had
> followed
WSB's advice more often, and what would have happened if
> Ferlinghetti
hadn't turned down 'Naked Lunch'. I wonder where my next
> Reese's Cup
is coming from. I wonder if my novel will ever be published.
> I wonder who
wrote the book of love. I wonder why she went away, and I
> wonder where
she will stay. I wonder what's behind the green door.
>
> =-=-=-=
> JSH. ky.
> there
> are
> nazis
> on
> the
> moon
> =-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:04:22 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
due to total
cirrhotic breatkdown of liver.
mc
hi mike.
M. Cakebread
wrote:
> At 10:54 PM
2/6/98 -0700, Al wrote:
>
> > i also
have a question as to the exact circumstances
> >of
Kerouac's death. i'm sure i'll find my
answer when
> >i read
one of the several biographies, but if anyone is
> >willing
to answer the question now, it would be great.
>
> hemorrhaging
esophageal varices
>
> Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:15:54 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hey steve: we are
neighbors of a sort. i live in montpelier, vt.
mc
ps thanks for
syllabus.
Steve Edington
wrote:
> Hello--I
found this today and thought I'd sign on. It looks good. Quick
>
Introduction: I'm the minister of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Nashua,
> NH; member
of the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Committee which puts on the annual
> Kerouac
Festival in Lowell every October ("everyone goes home in October" JK
> OTR) and am
teaching a course at the University of Massachusetts--Lowell on
> "The
Literature of the Beat Movement." Have also written an short
>
book--30,000+ words--called "Kerouac's Nashua Connection" about JK's
family
> ties to
Nashua and Quebec, and how he portrays his extended family in his
> Lowell
novels. Got a possible publisher looking at it now; it that doesn't fly
> I'll
probably publish the thing myself.
> I'm going to
post up--as a download--my syllabus for the Beat Movement course.
> Its my first
venture at this kind of thing; would appreciate any feedback,
> suggestions,
anyone out there may have as I hope to be doing this every other
> semester.
> Best
wishes--Steve Edington
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: SYLLABUS.WPS
> SYLLABUS.WPS Type: unspecified type
(application/octet-stream)
> Encoding: base64
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:17:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> well i have
a copy of Rolling Stone #155 Feb.28, 1974 which includes (as
> well as
"Fear and Loathing at the Superbowl" by Hunter S. Thompson)
"Beat
> Godfather
meets Glitter Mainman: William Burroughs, say hello to David
> Bowie",
which is wsb's interview of bowie - so there is histry there...
Here's an
interesting factoid ... I was just listening to a bootleg
of Bowie at the
Bridge benefit concerts (arranged by Neil Young) --
Bowie tells the
audience that he thought up the song "Jean Genie" when
he spotted the
name Jean Genet at the City Lights bookstore.
Funny, I'd never
even thought of the two together.
Jean Genet was a
friend of Burroughs, so that's two degrees of
separation ...
(Also I'm pretty sure that Bowie and Burroughs used
to hang out
together in the 70's, along with Mick Jagger, etc.,
in New York and
Europe, the pre-Studio 54 crowd).
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
| |
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:25:24 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: waaahoooo!!!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
so glad to see
the list members sober or not, writing about the works,
the folks, the
reality at the end of the fork and not name calling! i'm
swacked myself.
poem re: father took me to places i hoped i'd never
revisit, but now
glad i did.
i thank all who
suffered thru all revisions.
i have the final,
but don't dare tempt the the testy gods with one more
goddamned post
about the goddamned man.
write on!
think on!
yo, beats, go!
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:29:38 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Neil M. Hennessy
wrote:
> couldn't
agree more, with this, neil. welcome jeff.
mc
>
>
> Glad you
joined the list Jeffrey. So far I've found myself on the opposite
> side of the
fence on most things, but that's what generates interesting
> discussion,
n'est-ce pas?
>
> Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:35:07 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
patricia:
considering the loyalty and memory of a dog, i am on the side of
believers.
mc
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> I know that
David bowie painted a portrait of william.
I have a dogs
> memory but
recall william being proud and impressed with david choosing
> him as a
subject. I got the general impression
they knew each other and
>
communicated. I wonder if there is a David Bowie web site connection.
> patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:43:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 7 Feb
1998, Levi Asher wrote:
> Jean Genet
was a friend of Burroughs, so that's two degrees of
> separation
...
It was my
understanding they only met once at the Chicago convention. I
know Burroughs
liked Genet's writing, he talks about it a couple of times
in the Letters,
and has a tribute of sorts in The Wild Boys called,
funnily enough,
"The Miracle of the Rose." In a slightly less than serious
way, I always
figured you could tell a lot about the difference between
the two writers'
views on queer love and sexuality by the way they refer
to rectums. Most
of the time Genet refers to the rectum as a "rose"
whereas Burroughs
calls it a "mollusk".
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:44:46 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hello
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Steve Edington
wrote:
>
> Hello--I
found this today and thought I'd sign on. It looks good. Quick
>
Introduction: I'm the minister of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Nashua,
> NH; member
of the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Committee which puts on the annual
> Kerouac
Festival in Lowell every October ("everyone goes home in October" JK
> OTR) and am
teaching a course at the University of Massachusetts--Lowell on
> "The
Literature of the Beat Movement." Have also written an short
>
book--30,000+ words--called "Kerouac's Nashua Connection" about JK's
family
> ties to
Nashua and Quebec, and how he portrays his extended family in his
> Lowell
novels. Got a possible publisher looking at it now; it that doesn't fly
> I'll
probably publish the thing myself.
> I'm going to
post up--as a download--my syllabus for the Beat Movement course.
> Its my first
venture at this kind of thing; would appreciate any feedback,
> suggestions,
anyone out there may have as I hope to be doing this every other
> semester.
> Best
wishes--Steve Edington
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: SYLLABUS.WPS
> Part 1.2 Type: unspecified type
(application/octet-stream)
> Encoding: base64
Hello Steve,
Welcome to the
list. I am sure your knowledge and
insight will be a
welcome addition
to the list. I am looking forward to
conversing with
you in the
future.
Eric Mayhew
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender: nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:47:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: On Burroughs and adolescent sex
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A passage from
The Cat Inside dealing with this topic, page 33 of the
Viking edition.
Neil
-----------------
A Nazi initiation into the upper reaches
of the SS was to gouge out
the eye of a pet
cat after feeding the cat and cuddling it for a month.
This exercise was
designed to eliminate all traces of pity-poison and mold
a full
Ubermensch. There is a very sound magical postulate involved: the
practitioner
achieves superhuman status by performing some revolting,
atrocious,
subhuman act. In Morocco, magic men gain power by eating their
own excrement.
But dig out Ruski's eyes? Stack bribes to
the radioactive sky. What
does it profit a
man? I could not occupy a body that could dig out
Ruski's eyes. So
who gained the whole world? I didn't. Any bargain
involving
exchange of qualitative values like animal love for
quantitative
advantage is not only dishonorable, as wrong as a man can
get, it is also
foolish. Because you get nothing. You have sold your you.
"Well, how does a beautiful young
red-haired body grab you?" Yes, He
will always find
a sucker like Faust, to sell his soul for a strap-on.
You want
adolescent sex, you have to pay for it in adolescent fear,
shame, confusion.
In order to enjoy something you have to be there. You
can't just sweep
in for dessert, dearie.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:54:05 -0500
Reply-To: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: More Burroughs and language
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeff Taylor
wrote:
> >
Burroughs was not writing *about* the end of language, he was writing
to
> > *bring
about* the end of language.
>
> Surely these
two need not be mutually exclusive.
No, certainly
not.
> But you may
very well be right in that what his writing *does* to
> *bring
about* something like the end of language is probably more
> interesting
than his explicit pronouncements *about* language. What
> WSB says
explicitly *about* what he is doing is often contradictory:
>
> 1) How is
the "factualism" of his early work (primarily) supposed to
> hang
together with the "Nothing is true...." position?
It doesn't. This
can probably be explained through Gysin's influence,
which wasn't
there for Naked Lunch.
> 2) [When
talking about Korzybsky] He claims that either/or
> logic is a
basic mistake of western thought, but then practically in
> the same
breath insists that the word is not the object to which it
> refers--
which is surely an either/or distinction if there ever was one.
I never thought
of that, great point.
In addition to
the two you've mentioned above, I've always wondered about
some other
contradictions that pop up in his work:
3) The figure of
Hassan I Sabbah (often equated with Gysin) is constantly
cited in the Nova
Trilogy as a revolutionary figure who "rubs out the
word
forever", breaking the Word-Image lock; BUT elsewhere in Burroughs'
work he considers
the institute of HIS's assassins as one of the most
effective
telepathic control systems on record (see especially "the book
of
breeething"). The telepathic Senders are one of those nasty parties of
Interzone.
On HIS, this
passage from Nova Express:
"What scared
you all into time? Into body? Into shit? I will tell you:
'the word'. Alien
word 'the'. 'The' word of Alien Enemy imprisons 'thee'
in Time. In Body.
In Shit. Prisoner, come out. The great skies are open. I
Hassan I Sabbah
rub out the word forever. If you I cancel all your words
forever. And the
words of Hassan I Sabbah as also cancel. Cross all your
skies see the
silent writing of Brion Gysin Hassan I Sabbah"
(Note that
Burroughs uses the same prison metaphor as Lacan, who I quoted
previously in
this regard)
4) In Naked
Lunch, the Divisionists are also one of the detested parties
of Interzone,
trying to populate the world exclusively with their own
replicas; BUT in
The Place of Dead Roads, Kim Carsons (who Burroughs had
called his
"spokesman") becomes a Divisionist at the end of the second
book, sending
through time "ten clones derived from Kim Carsons the
Founder [...] The
clones exist in a communal mind in which the bodies are
at the disposal
of all the others, like rotating quarters".
Seems to me that
the Parties of Interzone become problematic if you try to
project them onto
other figures and structures in Burroughs' oeuvre. This
is completely
understandable though, since to presume that his work would
maintain a
consistent structure in over 30 books and 40 years would be
reductivist.
> So finally,
we need to be careful to about declaring that WSBs project
> has
"failed"....for what it aimed to do may not be expressibile as a
>
"fact".....
>
> >
Burroughs' prison-break ultimately fails, although in systematically
> >
disrupting the syntactic and authorial basis on which writing rests he
> >
ruptured the tradition of discourse. The problem is that the rupture
> > is only
temporary (time-bound), for the universal discourse absorbs
> > the
singularity, and language rules again: in Burroughs' formulation
> > the
Word forces us into our bodies, inscribes us in shit and Time, and
> > there
ain't no escape lessen you figure out how to get into Space.
I guess the
distinction I'm trying to make here is that Burroughs'
declaration in
the Nova trilogy "I Hassan I Sabbah rub out the word
forever"
obviously didn't succeed. However, as performative works both The
Ticket that
Exploded and The Exterminator have the capacity to rub out the
word temporarily
in the dissolving of intelligible words into calligraphic
abstractions
(with the permutations in between in The Exterminator). The
problem is that
the escape from (the prison of) words is only temporary,
since the viral
Word soon recaptures, reestablishes its presence in the
mind of the
reader when the sound track in his head fires up again.
Through
Burroughs' cut-ups and Gysin's calligraphy they have "blown a hole
through time. Let
others follow". I have left the I behind in a temporary
rupture of
language and self, "I have experienced moments of silence", but
the rupture is
only temporary/temporal before the Word reappears and
closes the gates
again.
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:55:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
HI GENE: i agree,
but they are all having so much fun, now, aren't they? hope
so,
considering the
effort put into it all....
elfishly yrs
mc
Gene Lee wrote:
> Just a
thought here
> Why is everyone so hung up on words
and labels and trying to figure
> out codes
and what and who meant? Seems to me that the words that they wrote
> would say it
all. Apply your own meanings however- but- to believe that it is
> sacred seems
a futile gesture at best.
> Just a thought.
> Hey- I think that those
individuals- Kerouac, Ginsberg, and
> Bouraghs to
a degree- had an intelligent living anbd literary thing going- and
> would be
greatly amused by all the hoeey that has happened since.
> GT
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:02:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Burroughs, Joyce, codes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At various times,
Jeffrey Holland has written:
> === maybe
I've had too much Amaretto tonight and the bullet-memes are
> sailing
right over the glass on my head, but it seems to me that the
> less
ordinary a language is, the more code-like it is, in that the
> average
reader must strive harder because the key is more encoded, and
> thus,
understand fully what has been written.
Two assumptions
in the above are extremely suspect, firstly that there is
a definable
average reader, and secondly that any text can be fully
understood,
"ordinary" or not.
> === What, then, do you think of my statement that
> started all this,
that I wish WSB had tried for something as dense and
> ambitious as
Finnegans Wake, adding his cut-up principle to the formula?
I find it hard to
understand how Burroughs could go beyond cut-ups into
some coded mode
of writing. Access to the Wake requires the fore-knowledge
of its
over-arching structure of puns. Access to the Nova trilogy requires
the
fore-knowledge of the cut-up method of composition. They are merely
two different
structures. If you want to call them codes, then that's
fine, but from my
background a code usually implies a 1-1 correspondance
from the sign to
a decided meaning, like in philosophical languages, and
math.
As for approaches
to the Wake vs. the Nova trilogy, the exegetical bent of
Joycean scholars
wouldn't hold up with Burroughs. You can't be some kind
of hermeneutical
detective with Burroughs-- it would be fruitless-- since
the aleatory
syntactic structures of Burroughs' cut-up writing are
introduced to
implicitly prevent the possibility of explication. With the
Wake however, the
constant probing of the axis of selection (paradigmatic)
provides a
never-ending pun-finding project. This is not to suggest that
analysis of
Burroughs can come to some kind of conclusion, but that
forcing his work
into some kind of coded (ie 1-1) framework is pointless,
especially when
so much of his work up to the Wild Boys was about
dissolving
oppositions (all agents defect, all resisters sell out).
Neil
"A homonym
generates interference patterns that atomic physicists can use
to explain
cosmological principles.
A tear in content times lies or winds to
scale its lead."
--Christian Bok
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[209.143.15.158]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:03:26 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: john boggs <jaboggs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: postmodernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i would've sent
this out a few days ago, but i messed up my internet
connection trying
to download a Juliette Binoche picture for wallpaper
on my computer.
hope it helps to clear somethings up...
from the _oxford
dictionary of philosophy_ by simon blackburn:
In the cultue generally, postmodernism is
associated with a playful
acceptance of
surfaces and superficial style, self-consciousness
quotation and
parody (although these are also found in modernist
literature, such
as that of James Joyce), and a celebration of the
ironic,
transient, and the glitzy. It is usually seen as a reation
against the
grands recitas of modernity: the large-scale justifications
of western
society and confidence in its progress visible in Kant,
Hegel, or Marx,
or arrising from the utopian visions of perfection
achieved through
evolution, social improvement, education, or the
deployment of
science. In its post-structural aspects it includes a
denial of any
fixed meanings, or any correspondance between language and
the world, or any
fixed reality or truth or fact to be the object of
enquiry.
(copyright 1994, 1996, oxford university
press)
perhaps one can
see a link between the beats and postmodernism using the
idea of dionysic
sense of existence found in nietzsche (who brilliantly
predicted our
postmodernism): both tend to take a playful look at the
heaviness and
seriousness of 20th century life. (often we even take our
"unseriousness"
too seriously.) there seems to be a subtle
correspondance in
the ideas of creating art out of a urinal and driving
around the
country, looking for "kicks".
does this make
sense?...i hope i didn't bite off more than i can chew.
(or worse yet,
chew more than i bit off.)
-john b
----------------------------------------------------
...allegories are so much
lettuce
Don't hide the madness.
-allen ginsberg
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:05:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's death (was: Hello?)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Al wrote:
> i also have
a question as to the exact circumstances of Kerouac's death.
> i'm sure
i'll find my answer when i read one of the several biographies,
but if
> anyone is
willing to answer the question now, it would be great.
>
> thanks
y'all(i hope),
> Al
Mike Rice wrote:
> He was
sitting in his sister's kitchen drinking a budweiser in
> September or
October, 1969, when he had a heart attack, keeled
> over and
later died. His sister, with whom he was
living, was
> present when
this happened.
>
> Mike Rice
Must have been an
eerie experience, as his sister had died five years
earlier, in 1964.
And it wasn't a
heart attack. Mike Cakebread has it
right, Kerouac died of
hemorrhaging
esophageal varices (by odd coincidence, the same death that
met the hero of
John Clellon Holmes' wonderful novel "The Horn," which was
dedicated to Jack
in 1958). Jack was living with his
mother at the time.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:06:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Burroughs, cut-ups, Dada
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Thu, 29 Jan
1998, Edward Desautels wrote:
>>> What
I perceive as one of the differences between Joyce and Burroughs
>>> is
that Joyce did not intend to break down language, he took language
>>>into
the unconscious, a point beyond which it had ever been taken before.
>>
>>
>>===
Agreed. WSB probably should have just let his cut-up work stand on
>>its own
without his Dada-esque grandiose claims that he was trying to
>>destroy
language, the idea of which seems even more foolish now than it
>>did then.
Oddly, though WSB almost always had the gift of gab, his
>>attempts
to explain and defend his cut-up process never came off very
>>convincingly
articulated.
I don't consider
Burroughs' grandiose claims foolish. Prehaps the reason
he never
convincingly articulated the original purpose of his cut-ups is
due to the
paradoxical nature of his project: fighting the control of
words with words.
He admits as much in the Knickerbocker interview in
_Writers at Work:
The Paris Review Interviews_ Noone has produced a more
complicated
exploration of the attempt to break free of the prison house
of language, I
don't consider that foolish at all.
What was it
Beckett said? "An artist dares to fail like no other."
(something like
that)
His more recent
statements on cut-ups (into and after the 80's) are
perfectly
convinvingly articulated, and deal with the cut-up as a mode of
representation,
rather than an attack on control through language.
> Minor point:
I don't think the Dadas were so much interested in
> _destroying_
language as wresting it from the control of the
> bourgeoisie.
Whether or not these two aims are merely iterations of each
> other is
open to speculation.
I don't think
this is a minor point at all Ed. I would be skeptical of any
claim that they
are iterations of each other, since Burroughs gives
language such a
huge, sinister role in human affairs at a biological
level.
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:09:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:40 PM
2/7/98 -0500, Mike Rice wrote:
>He was
sitting in his sister's kitchen drinking a budweiser in
>September or
October, 1969, when he had a heart attack, keeled
>over and
later died. His sister, with whom he was
living, was
>present when
this happened.
At 02:13 PM
2/7/98, I wrote:
>At 10:54 PM
2/6/98 -0700, Al wrote:
>> i also
have a question as to the exact circumstances
>>of
Kerouac's death. i'm sure i'll find my
answer when
>>i read
one of the several biographies, but if anyone is
>>willing
to answer the question now, it would be great.
>hemorrhaging
esophageal varices
A little more
info:
>From _Jack's
Book: An Oral Biography of Jack Kerouac_ by
Gifford and Lee.
"Stella
Sampas Kerouac
...We'd been up all night before the
day he died. We
were watching
television, 'The Galloping Gourmet,'
about ten-thirty
in the morning. I had just finished
attending to
Mémerê and I was going to get Jack something
to eat, but he
wouldn't let me. He made me sit while he
opened a can of
tuna fish. He ate the whole can. Then he
went into the
bathroom. I heard some noise and I went
in to see about
it.
Jack was in there, the toilet was
filled with blood.
'I'm
hemorrhaging,' he said. 'I'm
hemorrhaging.'
Jack didn't want to go to the
hospital. He wanted the
doctor to come
over, but I called the ambulance. Jack
kept
insisting he
didn't want to go, but he went."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:09:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:40 PM
2/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:54 PM
2/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>howdeedoo
all,
>>
>>have i
been blackballed from the list? nobody
has responded to any of my
>>
postings.
>> i also
have a question as to the exact circumstances of Kerouac's death.
>i'm
>> sure
>>i'll find
my answer when i read one of the several biographies, but if
>anyone is
>>willing
to answer the question now, it would be great.
>>
>>thanks
y'all(i hope),
>>Al
>>
>He was
sitting in his sister's kitchen drinking a budweiser in
>September or
October, 1969, when he had a heart attack, keeled
>over and
later died. His sister, with whom he was
living, was
>present when
this happened.
>
>Mike Rice
>>
>>Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>>http://www.mailexcite.com
>>
>>
>His sister
was long since dead, you mean his wife, Stella Kerouac.
Paul...
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:10:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Thu, 5 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> South
America, Africa; hunting not for animal pelts but for truth, and
> for a
mysterious fabled drug called Yage, which he finds, ingests, and
> emerges a
changed man.
Searching for a
plant that could possibly be used for telepathic mind
control.
> Burroughs
writes. And writes. And writes. Tells the truth
That's the second
time you've used the word "truth" in relation to
Burroughs, when
"truth" in his writing from the Nova Trilogy onwards is a
totally bankrupt
concept. Can you elaborate?
> in lucid,
> gutteral,
terms, writing of all manner of things underworld and ugly,
> and shows us
the beauty therein.
This
glorification of abjection is a project much closer to the
Genet's secular
hagiography than anything Burroughs has written.
Burroughs' art
and writing cannot be reduced to mere aesthetics. I dearly
love Genet's
writing, but Burroughs is up to something different. (On a
personal note,
the _only_ reason I'm glad I was raised Catholic is that
Genet's religious
tropes are so resonant to me)
> Saints he
dreamed of. Woven through his life's writings is the sad
>
acknowledgment that he was born in the wrong time. Had he lived in
> another,
simpler era, where he imagined the world was freer and more
> exciting, he
could have REALLY shown us something.
I'm wondering
where the preoccupation with what Burroughs "could have
done" comes
from. He "could have" taken the cut-ups into some nebulous
coded Wake-world,
and "could have" shown us something "if" he had lived in
a different era.
I'm not sure where this kind of speculation leads.
Glad you joined
the list Jeffrey. So far I've found myself on the opposite
side of the fence
on most things, but that's what generates interesting
discussion,
n'est-ce pas?
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:13:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
let's just throw
it all out the window, shout pomes and dance! oh how i want to
dance with a
cupla hundred people right now. dancing in my room, esctatic,
alone,
memories of so
many tours and hundreds of thousands dancing....
spring tour
should have been crankin up by now
by all goddesses,
jerry,
i miss you
mc
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
> I wish literature
were that simple, but its not. Its easy to get caught up
> in
semitotics and the like.
> On Sat, 7
Feb 1998, Gene Lee wrote:
>
> > Just a
thought here
> > Why is everyone so hung up on words
and labels and trying to
figure
> > out
codes and what and who meant? Seems to me that the words that they wrote
> > would
say it all. Apply your own meanings however- but- to believe that it
is
> > sacred
seems a futile gesture at best.
> > Just a thought.
> > Hey- I think that those
individuals- Kerouac, Ginsberg, and
> >
Bouraghs to a degree- had an intelligent living anbd literary thing going-
and
> > would
be greatly amused by all the hoeey that has happened since.
> > GT
> >
>
> ********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:29:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
when the liver
can't process any more poison, the esophageal varices break
loose.
process of fatal
cirrhosis. as far as i know, the heart stops at some point, but
don't all of
ours?
mc
Aeronwy Thomas
wrote:
> wait, why
did one person say that he dies because of hemmoraghing esophageal
>
varices" and another one say he died of a heart attack while drinking beer
and
> yet another
say that he died from cirrohosis? clear this up, please?
>
> aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:40:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I know that David
bowie painted a portrait of william. I
have a dogs
memory but recall
william being proud and impressed with david choosing
him as a
subject. I got the general impression
they knew each other and
communicated. I
wonder if there is a David Bowie web site connection.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.45]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:53:37 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Feel free to delete this if you must.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i am attempting to recreate a beat feel in my
writings about my
hitch-hiking
journeys/adventures....
here is a sample...please give me your beat
opinions...
ok, so i was
walking down the labrynthine road of a town i didn't know
and a state i'd
only heard about.
great indiana, with it's absolute normality.
and there i was, thumb
out, beggin' for
rides.
didn't have any idea where i was going.
milwaukee? yeah, sounds alright.
supposed to meet some girl there anyway.
she doesn't know i'm coming.
wait, a car pulls up.
this guy is a trip, he's me, if i had the
money to dress like that.
a sort of nonchalant version of expensive
poverty.
i ask him to take me to the shelter. he says
get in.
we drive off, he keeps tellin' me how he knows
guys who hitch-hike.
and i am struck by the fact that this is one
of those guys who knows
people, and
that's all.
but he asks me if i want to party, get a
little stoned.
just as quick, he says nevermind, it'd be too
hard to arrange.
what do i do?
i agree, always agree.
you get further.
he drops me off at the shelter and says,
"later".
yeah, later.
time to register.
any comments?...i would even accept flames...
-julian
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/Solace
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.45]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:54:09 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Feel free to delete this if you must.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i am attempting to recreate a beat feel in my
writings
about my hitch-hiking
journeys/adventures....
here is a sample...please give me your beat
opinions...
ok, so i was
walking down the labrynthine road of a town i
didn't know and a
state i'd only heard about.
great indiana, with it's absolute normality.
and there i
was, thumb out,
beggin' for rides.
didn't have any idea where i was going.
milwaukee? yeah, sounds alright.
supposed to meet some girl there anyway.
she doesn't know i'm coming.
wait, a car pulls up.
this guy is a trip, he's me, if i had the
money to dress
like that.
a sort of nonchalant version of expensive
poverty.
i ask him to take me to the shelter. he says
get in.
we drive off, he keeps tellin' me how he knows
guys who
hitch-hike.
and i am struck by the fact that this is one
of those
guys who knows
people, and that's all.
but he asks me if i want to party, get a
little stoned.
just as quick, he says nevermind, it'd be too
hard to
arrange.
what do i do?
i agree, always agree.
you get further.
he drops me off at the shelter and says,
"later".
yeah, later.
time to register.
any comments?...i would even accept flames...
-julian
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/Solace
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:13:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Just a thought
here
Why is everyone so hung up on words
and labels and trying to figure
out codes and
what and who meant? Seems to me that the words that they wrote
would say it all.
Apply your own meanings however- but- to believe that it is
sacred seems a
futile gesture at best.
Just a thought.
Hey- I think that those individuals-
Kerouac, Ginsberg, and
Bouraghs to a
degree- had an intelligent living anbd literary thing going- and
would be greatly
amused by all the hoeey that has happened since.
GT
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:41:40 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This is a poem
that came to me in a dream. It pretty
much speaks for
itself in my
opinion.
Labels are God
who cares about
anything.
life and death
are irrelevant.
we come and we go
death is me now
i am alone, by
myself
without you and
without
GOD
god leaves us in time
but left without
living
is not living at
all
i have been in
the dark
and been to the
light
where has it left
me?
but in the middle
of nothing
nothing is God
God
the level of
existence we
often percieve
is beyond the
systems of me
me is what i am
living in the
directory of operations
living my life in
a checkout line
lines are my life
i cant get out of
them
i am hanging on a
rope
but still stuck
in a line
I am now by the
brook
but where is my
hook
i cant find the
end
its around the
bend
oh wait here it
is:
truth is in
beauty, beauty in truth
that's all you
ever need to know
like it?
who cares
this is a poem
it can't be liked
it just is
who are you to
criticize
who am i
answer these my
friend
and forever will
obscurity reign
edm
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:05:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: noteable quotes
Comments: cc:
Zarefsky <d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>,
WILD_BILL
<Bill.Henderson@uni.edu>, seward23 <seward23@aol.com>,
Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
"R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,
NELSONj
<john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
"Meyer, Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
Bruce Gronbeck
<gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>,
ABILENE <dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The Tape Recorder
Interpersonality Con Sport
From: The Ticket
that Exploded p. 208
"analyzing
recorded conversations you will learn to steer a conversation
where you want it
to go __ the physiological liberation achieved as word
lines of
controlled association are cut will make you more efficient in
reaching your
objectives _____ whatever you do you will do it better"
Selective
Interpretive Mixed-Scanning Methodological Premises
From: The Ticket
that Exploded p.206
"different
people will scan out different words of course but some of
the words are
quite clearly there and anyone can hear them words which
were not in the
original tape but which are in many cases relevant to
the original text
as if the words themselves had been interrogated and
forced to reveal
their hidden meanings. It is interesting
to record
these words
literally made by the machine itself."
Context of last
lines of "Colt-45" in Firewalk Thru Madness
From: The Ticket
that Exploded, p. 140
"Yes when
the going gets really rough they call in the Old Doctor to
quiet the marks
-- and he just raises his old blue hands and brings them
down slow
touching all the marks right where they live and the marks are
quiet -- But
remember ladies and gentlemen, you can only call the Old
Doctor once -- So
be sure when you call him this is really it -- Because
if you call the
Old Doctor twice he quiets you --
"Here's the
Doc now"
--"""""""""""""""""""}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}]
DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:15:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: oops
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
However, it WAS
really funny, and I thought you did it deliberately! --Sara
At 09:38 PM
2/10/98 +0100, you wrote:
>I have no
idea how the phrase "maybe you should join the army or
>something"
ended up at the end of my "Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no"
>post's
title.........weird and wacky.
>
>=-=-=
>jsh
>ky
>=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:38:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's death (was: Hello?)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> Mike
Rice
>
>Must have
been an eerie experience, as his sister had died five years
>earlier, in
1964.
>
>And it wasn't
a heart attack. Mike Cakebread has it
right, Kerouac died of
>hemorrhaging
esophageal varices (by odd coincidence, the same death that
>met the hero
of John Clellon Holmes' wonderful novel "The Horn," which was
>dedicated to
Jack in 1958). Jack was living with his
mother at the time.
And his wife!
>
>Jym
>
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:39:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I wish literature
were that simple, but its not. Its easy to get caught up
in semitotics and
the like.
On Sat, 7 Feb
1998, Gene Lee wrote:
> Just a
thought here
> Why is everyone so hung up on words
and labels and trying to figure
> out codes
and what and who meant? Seems to me that the words that they wrote
> would say it
all. Apply your own meanings however- but- to believe that it is
> sacred seems
a futile gesture at best.
> Just a thought.
> Hey- I think that those
individuals- Kerouac, Ginsberg, and
> Bouraghs to
a degree- had an intelligent living anbd literary thing going- and
> would be
greatly amused by all the hoeey that has happened since.
> GT
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:14:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
wait, why did one
person say that he dies because of hemmoraghing esophageal
varices" and
another one say he died of a heart attack while drinking beer and
yet another say
that he died from cirrohosis? clear this up, please?
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.17.30
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:19:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: pome poem mope ompe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hiya folks,
thanks for the
clearing up kerouac's death. i hope to
get into the biographies
and
writings
soon. does anyone know where i would
find copies of beat poems on the
net?
burroughs, ginsberg, etc. i'd also like to hear some opinions about the
movie
Naked
Lunch. it's obviously nothing compared to the book,
but i randomly picked up
the
movie at Super
Video before i had even heard of burroughs.
there's a poem below
which everyone
seems to have ignored previously. please grill and destroy it,
but
tell me why it's
so bad as well.
keep on beatin,
Al
THe crazy clarity
of obscurity at the abnormal hour
strange thoughts
fill me at night- or rather, at the earliest of dusk.
i close my eyes
and can't sleep, siphoning the blackness for hours.
and streams, and
bits, and floods come,
and Devour
and are devoured
with speed, and quick, and lassitude
platonic passion
and the virgo is
suddenly quintessence of Virtue
the mundanes of
reality become fireballs-split
and the perfect
sphere is created.
Why can't sleep
drown me?
then
COMBUSTION
the neural
impulses jump and warp and Ffizz with electric shortsparks
and tommorrow
i'll take a bath in the morning and feel great and Grand for the
rest
of the day(but it
won't actually happen cause i'll wake up late or groggy and
forgetful
will wake me
late)and suddenly i remember when the rain came in my old house
which
was brown and
yellow i think but now it's red and i fell in love with the rain.
and i used to
watch the flash of headlights from cars cause we lived on a busy
street
hackensack st. my
room was small and the house was a two family house us
upstairs.
my room to the right after the climb to the
top of the stairs and it was tiny
i'd
fall asleep to
those headlights the shadows glide from one side of the room to
the
other and i'd
hide 'neath the porch and feel safe and
i should live life
without
worrying about
the afterlife so much cause everything should be done with fervor
while many only
portion life into little frozen dinner compartments and eat only
the apple crumb
or the pasty corn you should jump and hop and be MAD and wicked
and
gargantuan
depressed and wholly lovey dovey and wakey up friends at 2am and tell
them to come out
and rattle like a crazy old beatnik about the niches and the
wide
expanses and the
holes in your jeans and the holes in your head.
--------------
then the morning
comes
and your BURst of
MaD self crazyhappy man buries himself and herself and itself
covers up to your
eyes and the i-ego-defense trashes you
and you're normal
and helpless-hapless-straight-scaredy again.
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
>From
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Sun Feb 8
06:49:30 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Received: from
SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.101 #2) id m0y1PcP-000sDDC; Sun,
8 Feb 1998 06:49:29 +0100 (MET)
Received: from
segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.16) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)
with SMTP id <13.0A1EACEF@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 6:48:34 +0100
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8c) with
NJE id 3453 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:48:48 -0500
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP3@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 0843; Sun,
8 Feb 1998 00:47:47 -0500
Received: from
mail01.uwec.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP;
Sun, 08 Feb 98 00:47:45 EST
Received: from
[137.28.129.234] by mail01.uwec.edu; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:47:17
-0600
X-Sender:
podulkca@uwec.edu
X-Mailer:
QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (16)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Message-ID:
<3.0.3.16.19980207235116.15970f20@uwec.edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:48:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathrine Podulke
<podulkca@UWEC.EDU>
Subject: Re: pome poem mope ompe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In-Reply-To: <NJLEMBPNODFGAAAA@mailexcite.com>
wow! I like your
work. I appreciate people similar to the ones on this
mailing list,
because they appear to be more open to the world than
everyone else.
thanks!
Kat
>Al
>
>
>
>THe crazy
clarity of obscurity at the abnormal hour
>
>strange
thoughts fill me at night- or rather, at the earliest of dusk.
>i close my
eyes and can't sleep, siphoning the blackness for hours.
>and streams,
and bits, and floods come,
>and Devour
>and are devoured
with speed, and quick, and lassitude
>platonic
passion
>and the virgo
is suddenly quintessence of Virtue
>the mundanes
of reality become fireballs-split
>and the
perfect sphere is created.
>Why can't
sleep drown me?
>then
>COMBUSTION
>the neural
impulses jump and warp and Ffizz with electric shortsparks
>and tommorrow
i'll take a bath in the morning and feel great and Grand for
the
> rest
>of the
day(but it won't actually happen cause i'll wake up late or groggy and
> forgetful
>will wake me
late)and suddenly i remember when the rain came in my old house
> which
>was brown and
yellow i think but now it's red and i fell in love with the
rain.
>and i used to
watch the flash of headlights from cars cause we lived on a
busy
> street
>hackensack
st. my room was small and the house was a two family house us
> upstairs.
> my room to
the right after the climb to the top of the stairs and it was
tiny
> i'd
>fall asleep
to those headlights the shadows glide from one side of the
room to
> the
>other and i'd
hide 'neath the porch and feel safe and
i should live life
> without
>worrying
about the afterlife so much cause everything should be done with
fervor
>while many
only portion life into little frozen dinner compartments and
eat only
>the apple
crumb or the pasty corn you should jump and hop and be MAD and
wicked
> and
>gargantuan
depressed and wholly lovey dovey and wakey up friends at 2am
and tell
>them to come
out and rattle like a crazy old beatnik about the niches and the
> wide
>expanses and
the holes in your jeans and the holes in your head.
>--------------
>then the
morning comes
>and your
BURst of MaD self crazyhappy man buries himself and herself and
itself
>covers up to
your eyes and the i-ego-defense trashes you
>and you're
normal and helpless-hapless-straight-scaredy again.
>
>
>
>
>Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>http://www.mailexcite.com
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.30]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:44:46 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac's Death
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i would like to state...
as corny as it sounds...
that the idea behind kerouac and the entire
beat movement...was life...
and debating over his death is pointless,
seeing as how he'd probably
be saying...
"look man,
look what i DID, not how i died..."
just a thought...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:54:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Andrea Moore <BMXDREA@AOL.COM>
Subject: that Beat course...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Steve Edington,
Your course
sounds great. I'm helping in a course at a sonoma state university
on the same
subject, and it's amazing how similar the takes on the Beat
movement are. I
wish our class had the chance to visit sights and Jack's
grave, I think it
would add a dimension to this class that we as westerners
don't extactly
get. The closest to a "sight" we have is San Francisco and City
Lights Books,
which are great places to soak up a beat aura, yet not as deeply
sad as a
gravesight or birth home place.
I especially dug
the part of your course description where you focus on
obituaries. I
will Mention this to Bob Coleman- the professor who is teaching
our class. I
think he will appreciate your special attention to the fact that
these writers are
a big deal 50 years after the fact.
It was about ten
years ago that I personally discovered the Beats, and I'm not
ashamed to admit
that it was through some cheesey girly mag that mostly
focused on the
trendy aspects of Beat--(Madamoiselle?). Anyways, this cheese
article mentioned
Ginsberg's HOWL poem and somehow I got ahold of the poem and
ever since then I
have devoted much thought to this movement-- not to mention
the fact that I
am writing a thesis on one of its more "lesser" members, Ed
Sanders. I do
sense that the Beats are especially vital to an American Lit.
movement that
hits the fin de sicle moment we are in now-- the class I am
involved with
rivals the number of students in a course taught on Charles
Dickens.
(Victorian era connections are another post, however). My point in
mentioning this
is that the students in this Beat class are not always
completely able
to nail why it is that the Beats mean so much to them. I sense
that we are all
just realizing this greater connection, and when I say all, I
mean, scholars,
students, readers, laymen, whatever...
Beat is big
folks. We are on to something more than just a bunch of codes,
stumbling drunks,
bad deaths, disgruntled poetics etc...
Like Dickens, the
Beats were arware of a larger community of Americans that
were sick of
bland representations of life-- let alone the proscribed ideals
of popular
aesthetics. Lonliness is still an American way of life. It's as if
we just left
Europe and are longing for our mum/mommy ....These authors knew
that there was
something out there- something more than Betty Crocker home
cooking, yet they
were plagued by the memory of such an ideal as a damn good
apple pie.....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:05:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Andrea Moore <BMXDREA@AOL.COM>
Subject: MARIE COUNTRY AND DANCING AND THE DEAD...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie wrote:
let's just throw
it all out the window, shout pomes and dance! oh how i want
to
dance with a
cupla hundred people right now. dancing in my room, esctatic,
alone,
memories of so
many tours and hundreds of thousands dancing....
spring tour
should have been crankin up by now
by all goddesses,
jerry,
i miss you
:)
------------------------------------******************************************
*****-------------------------
ahh! This brings
up a good point!!!! What do you all think is the connection
between the
Grateful Dead and the Beats? I must tell you that out of a class
of forty, twelve
people mentioned the Dead in a response paper that asked,
"what is you
relation to the beats ?"
Several people
mentioned the feeling of community in these papers, but what do
you think? How
many of you Beat-L subscribers are Dead heads? Is there a
connection here?
Let's explore it.
I'm not a dead
head, but I'll posit that it does have to do with the community
(just look at
this list, for instance!!!!) and this community wants something
not only from
itself but from America and its culture. We are supposed to be a
happy place
America! But as Ginsberg alludes to many times, we fall short---
what is in this
idea????? The virtual community is a good place to start......
Drea
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
152.163.232.27
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:17:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Re: pome poem mope ompe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>wow! I like
your work. I appreciate people similar to the ones on this
>mailing list,
because they appear to be more open to the world than
>everyone
else.
>thanks!
>Kat
>
Thanks kat. that's one thing i loved about On the
Road. how kerouac and
cassady
would dig
everything. all the strange and
commonplace people and sights. the
best
perspective is
one that recognizes and attempts an understanding at every other
perspective.
AL
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
>From
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Sun Feb 8
07:28:18 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Received: from
SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.101 #2) id m0y1QDx-000sBoC; Sun,
8 Feb 1998 07:28:17 +0100 (MET)
Received: from
segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.16) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)
with SMTP id <13.739D33D0@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 7:27:19 +0100
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8c) with
NJE id 4631 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:27:32 -0500
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP3@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2624; Sun, 8 Feb
1998 01:25:55 -0500
Received: from
excite by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Sun, 08
Feb 98 01:25:54 EST
Received: by
mailexcite.com id <20502-350>; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:24:38 -0800
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Expiredinmiddle:
true
X-Mailer:
MailCity Service
X-Sender-Ip:
152.163.232.27
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Length:
439
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Message-ID: <LEGPBKOLANIGAAAA@mailexcite.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:24:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Re: pome poem mope ompe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>wow! I like
your work. I appreciate people similar to the ones on this
>mailing list,
because they appear to be more open to the world than
>everyone
else.
>thanks!
>Kat
Gratias Kat. i loved the way kerouac and cassady dug
everything in On the Road.
the best perspective is one which recognizes
and attempts to understand every
other
perspective.
AL
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:45:12 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: that Beat course...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Andrea Moore
wrote:
>
> Steve
Edington,
> Your course
sounds great. I'm helping in a course at a sonoma state university
> on the same
subject, and it's amazing how similar the takes on the Beat
> movement
are. I wish our class had the chance to visit sights and Jack's
> grave, I
think it would add a dimension to this class that we as westerners
> don't
extactly get. The closest to a "sight" we have is San Francisco and
City
> Lights
Books, which are great places to soak up a beat aura, yet not as deeply
> sad as a
gravesight or birth home place.
> I especially
dug the part of your course description where you focus on
> obituaries.
I will Mention this to Bob Coleman- the professor who is teaching
> our class. I
think he will appreciate your special attention to the fact that
> these
writers are a big deal 50 years after the fact.
> It was about
ten years ago that I personally discovered the Beats, and I'm not
> ashamed to
admit that it was through some cheesey girly mag that mostly
> focused on
the trendy aspects of Beat--(Madamoiselle?). Anyways, this cheese
> article
mentioned Ginsberg's HOWL poem and somehow I got ahold of the poem and
> ever since
then I have devoted much thought to this movement-- not to mention
> the fact
that I am writing a thesis on one of its more "lesser" members, Ed
> Sanders. I
do sense that the Beats are especially vital to an American Lit.
> movement
that hits the fin de sicle moment we are in now-- the class I am
> involved
with rivals the number of students in a course taught on Charles
> Dickens.
(Victorian era connections are another post, however). My point in
> mentioning this
is that the students in this Beat class are not always
> completely
able to nail why it is that the Beats mean so much to them. I sense
> that we are
all just realizing this greater connection, and when I say all, I
> mean,
scholars, students, readers, laymen, whatever...
> Beat is big
folks. We are on to something more than just a bunch of codes,
> stumbling
drunks, bad deaths, disgruntled poetics etc...
> Like
Dickens, the Beats were arware of a larger community of Americans that
> were sick of
bland representations of life-- let alone the proscribed ideals
> of popular
aesthetics. Lonliness is still an American way of life. It's as if
> we just left
Europe and are longing for our mum/mommy ....These authors knew
> that there
was something out there- something more than Betty Crocker home
> cooking, yet
they were plagued by the memory of such an ideal as a damn good
> apple
pie.....
hey, i go to
sonoma state, and didn't even know about this class
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:46:43 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: MARIE COUNTRY AND DANCING AND THE
DEAD...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Andrea Moore
wrote:
>
> Marie wrote:
> let's just
throw it all out the window, shout pomes and dance! oh how i want
> to
> dance with a
cupla hundred people right now. dancing in my room, esctatic,
> alone,
> memories of
so many tours and hundreds of thousands dancing....
> spring tour
should have been crankin up by now
> by all
goddesses, jerry,
> i miss you
> :)
>
------------------------------------******************************************
>
*****-------------------------
>
> ahh! This
brings up a good point!!!! What do you all think is the connection
> between the
Grateful Dead and the Beats? I must tell you that out of a class
> of forty,
twelve people mentioned the Dead in a response paper that asked,
> "what
is you relation to the beats ?"
>
> Several
people mentioned the feeling of community in these papers, but what do
> you think?
How many of you Beat-L subscribers are Dead heads? Is there a
> connection
here? Let's explore it.
>
> I'm not a
dead head, but I'll posit that it does have to do with the community
> (just look
at this list, for instance!!!!) and this community wants something
> not only
from itself but from America and its culture. We are supposed to be a
> happy place
America! But as Ginsberg alludes to many times, we fall short---
> what is in
this idea????? The virtual community is a good place to start......
> Drea
i am a deadhead.
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:11:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Andrea Moore <BMXDREA@AOL.COM>
Subject: DEAD HEADS AND THE NEATSBEATS
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dennis wrote:
The connection
between the Dead and the Beats probably centers around Neal
Cassady. Neal was with Kesey and the Pranksters at the
time of the Trips
Festival/Acid
Tests driving THE BUS and rapping into the mike onstage. The
Dead were the
musicians thrown into this mix, ca. 1965.
---------------------------------
that's an okay
answer, but what about beyond that neal/ken connection- WHAT DO
YOU FEEL IS THE
SAME ABOUT THE BEATS AND THE DEAD!?
Neal tells Jack
that, "We were born before out time." ?????? Hmnn...
drea
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (today)
a prayer
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980205142236.22892A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
many things are
brought by a
prayerTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 2 YRS
AGO HANDED AT TITANIC
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34D9EF25.A25@iclub.org>
References:
<199802051323.IAA28663@pike.sover.net>
<Pine.SOL.3.95.980205120539.15294A-100000@rask>
<v03102801b0ffac7a5e96@[206.190.9.145]>
Jeffrey Scott
Holland says:
>William
S.Burroughs came into this world on this day in 1914. Radio was
>in its
infancy, and Nikola Tesla was preparing to sue Marconi for his
YOUTH
be deep I see you
--jk "SEA"
youthyouthYOUTHY-O-U-T-H-.-.-YOUthyouth--
The Marconi
International Marine Communications co, Ltd.
you
th 14 APR 1912
Watergate H
ouse
youthyouthyouth
11.40 PM. N.Y.T. OFF IS SMALL
TITANIC SAYS TELL BOATS.
CAPTAIN WE ARE PU
TTING THE PASSENG
GERS
11.45 PM. N.Y.T. WHAT THE WHEATHER
ASKED THE TITANIC HE, HAD HE SAYS C
LEAR AND
CLAM.
YOUTHYOUTH
YOUTHYOUTH
YOUTHYOUTHYOUTH
---
Rinaldo
02Feb98
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:24:04 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 08
Feb 1998 11:15:19...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:15:19 +0100
with subject "2 YRS AGO
HANDED AT
TITANIC" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (256
recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:24:05 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 08
Feb 1998 10:58:41...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:58:41 +0100 with subject "(today) a
prayer" has
been successfully distributed
to the BEAT-L
list (256
recipients).
To:
jgardner@doane.edu
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Existentialism...
Cc:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<21E0E3DE.7465@doane.edu>
References:
<BEAT-L%1998011318210937@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
jodie says:
>Does anyone
know anything about existentialism and it's importance in
>the Beat
movement and culture? If so, please
explain and help me out
>here. Thanks!
>
>*jodie*
>
Jodie:
in his last words
JP Sartre tell us he was never anguish and
to be
existentialist were caught on by the time post WWII
in lit fashion.
the last
interview _the last sunday_ of his life JP Sartre
buried the existentialism
as a matter of kinki youth post-war.
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:53:20 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 08
Feb 1998 11:44:33...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message dated
Sun, 08 Feb 1998
11:44:33 +0100 with subject
"Re:
Existentialism..."
has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (256
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:46:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adam Johansen
<adamjohansen@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: MICROSOFT
WIN98&$1000!!!!! PLEASE READ! YOULL BE
GLAD YOU DID! (fwd)]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Message text
written by "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
>
2) Consider the
name of the program. . . BETA? Duh, even Microsoft
wouldn't name a
program BETA. . . that's like Chevy
trying to sell their
Nova in South
America (Nova = "doesn't go"
in Spanish).
<
I concur
wholeheartedly with everything you said except this:
Beta is clearly
the second letter of the Greek alphabet and is used in
the computer
industry to denote a version of a program released for
testing out of
house - I presume that was the intended meaning here.
The name would
appear to be Win98&1000$....
It is, of course,
B*****ks... but that's another story....
Adam Johansen
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:11:20 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
great quote,
matt.
Matthew A. Parker
wrote:
> "We had
lies of our own to tell, but not hateful ones.
Told them with music.
> Had come to
save the world but, starting in Germany, began to realize worlds
> cannot be
saved. All are tentative. So we learned to dance on graves and be
> glad."
> --Robert
Hunter
> praying for
a time machine,
> matt
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:30:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz
<CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: pome poem mope ompe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yo Al,
Happy
Sunday. Had some great waffles for
breakfast this morning (with skim
milk and
bananas), so I'm in a giving mood.
Here's an address
where you can access some Ginsberg writings.
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/agt.html
Hope you like
it. It's got some of his illustrations,
too.
><CYAN><
it's never too
late to have a happy childhood -Tom Robbins
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:51:38 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: QR Hand
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Dear
Beatl-ers
Folks in the SF
area this week should now that QR hand is performing his poems
with his group at the Polk Street Roasting and
Cafe as I was informed by his
friend Leon
Tabory. QR has a
style that is very rythmic, there are elements of music and
theatre in what he does, at times reminds me
of a hip hop Greek chorus. Well
worth hearing.
QR leads, all
read, and Jordan also plays sax. The
group consists of.
> Brian
Auerbach
> Q. R. Hand
> Lewis Jordan
> Reginald
Lockett
Anyone thinking
about catching this let me know and perhaps we can get together.
Well worth it, the man is a treat. Thursday
night, February 12--two shopping
days till
Valentines day.
James Stauffer
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:54:22 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Those interested
in catching DiPrima should be able to find her, she is out
reading
alot. I saw her last year at the Women
of the Beat Generation book
party
and at the SF
memorial for AG--also was in San Jose recently with others. Watch
your poetry rags
for readings in your area. She is fairly
active, maybe not
quite
so visible as
Anne Waldman, but close.
James Stauffer
Dennis Cardwell
wrote:
> Some few
years ago, maybe 3 or 4, one of DiPrima's daughters hosted a Weekend
> morning
television series for teens. It was an
out and about in the Bay Area
> sort of
program dealing with the arts and, I think, a smattering of news. The
> daughter
seemed bright, witty, and generally talented.
Fred McDarrah has
> published
vintage 50's photos of Diane at readings and so forth in the
> Village,
can't remember if any were from North Beach.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: CARL
DEAN WILSON
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
CARL DEAN WILSON
Dec. 21, 1946 -
Feb. 6, 1998
We are greatly
saddened to report that Carl Wilson, lead guitarist and founding member of The
Beach Boys, has died from complications of lung cancer, his family said
Saturday. He was 51. Carl is survived by his wife Gina, his sons Jonah and
Justyn, and his brother Brian.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:02:30 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 08
Feb 1998 19:55:53...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 08 Feb 1998 19:55:53 +0100 with subject "CARL DEAN
WILSON" has
been successfully distributed to
the BEAT-L list
(253
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:31:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Say Marie
At least this time I wasn't tarred
and feathered for opening my
mouth on these
boards. That's a step in the right direction.
And yes- i can relate to the idea of
some Sprintime dancin and
getting out in
the world. We need more of that!
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:07:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Matthew A. Parker"
<MParker113@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: word labels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"We had lies
of our own to tell, but not hateful ones.
Told them with music.
Had come to save
the world but, starting in Germany, began to realize worlds
cannot be
saved. All are tentative. So we learned to dance on graves and be
glad."
--Robert Hunter
praying for a
time machine,
matt
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:10:47 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: beat videos
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Micah Maidenberg
wrote:
> Anyone
viewed?
=== Haven't seen
any of them, but amazon.com sells "Towers Open Fire"
and "Fried
Shoes"; I've been considering ordering them....
=-=-=-=-=-=
holland, j.s.
ke nt uc ky
=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:18:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey everybody.
I'm looking for information on Diane DiPrima, especially in the
way of web
resources. It seems that there is very little available about her
in the real
world- even when it comes to just finding a book of poems. What's
up w/ that? :) The
few "pomes" (new spelling of choice on beat-l, apparently)
I have found in
random beat anthologies appealed very much to me. Especially
"Brass
Furnace Going Out: Song after an Abortion" (which I actually pulled off
the 'net
somewhere)- has anyone else read this? It is absolutely amazing.
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:43:29 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Koch
<jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey everybody.
I'm looking for information on Diane DiPrima, especially in the
way of web resources
We put some
DiPrima on our Danish site at:
http.//www.systime.dk/fagbank/engelsk/Beatgen/fembeats.htm
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:09:49 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sara Feustle
wrote:
> Stephanie,
> Go to www.kerouac.com. (Also 1-800
KER-OUAC.) They have the most
kick-ass
> catalogue of
Beat stuff I've ever seen, including an entire book of Diane
> DiPrima's
poems, entitled _Memoirs of a Beatnik_.
> --Sara
Don't be misled,
"Memoirs of a Beatnik" is not a collection of poems. It
is
quasi-autobiography, quasi-erotica, and great fun...but *not* poems.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:18:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: AG Flick
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Im going to the
AG flick at anthology tonight, 6pm. Hope to see you there!
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:56:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/8/98 1:15:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU
writes:
> an entire
book of Diane
> DiPrima's poems, entitled _Memoirs of a
Beatnik_.
This book is
DiPrima's Memoirs, published in The Traveller's Companion Series
by Olympia Press
in 1969. It contains no poetry. My guess is that it was
published to get
DiPrima some quick bread when she really needed it...but I'm
guessing.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:41:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:14 PM
2/7/98 EST, Aeronwy Thomas wrote:
>wait, why did
one person say that he dies because of hemmoraghing esophageal
>varices"
and another one say he died of a heart attack while drinking beer and
>yet another
say that he died from cirrohosis? clear this up, please?
hemmoraghing
esophageal varices is the real deal
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:59:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Death
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:44 PM
2/7/98 PST, Julian Ruck wrote:
> i would like
to state...
> as corny as
it sounds...
> that the
idea behind kerouac and the entire beat
>movement...was
life... and debating over his death
>is pointless,
seeing as how he'd probably
>be saying...
>"look
man, look what i DID, not how i died..."
Uhh, funny you
bring this up considering JK was
slowly killing
himself and openly admitted it to close friends
shortly before
his death. . . Not to mention the
the fact that
large parts of his prose deal with death.
Isn't part of
life, death?
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:44:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Sara Feustle
wrote:
>
>> Stephanie,
>> Go to www.kerouac.com. (Also 1-800
KER-OUAC.) They have the most
>kick-ass
>>
catalogue of Beat stuff I've ever seen, including an entire book of Diane
>>
DiPrima's poems, entitled _Memoirs of a Beatnik_.
>> --Sara
>
>Don't be
misled, "Memoirs of a Beatnik" is not a collection of poems. It
>is
quasi-autobiography, quasi-erotica, and great fun...but *not* poems.
>
>Jym
Erotica
anthlogies frequently reprint excerpts from "Memoirs of a Beatnick"
and I agree with
Jym that DiPrima provides great fun.
In one, a short
piece of erotica, in Maurice Girodias'
Olypia Press
America (I think
I have that right), described sex with Jack Kerouac. There
was a blurb about
Diprima--mentioned that she was born and raised in
Brooklyn emerged
in the '50s...Sartre, Franz Kline, william de Kooning were
mentioned and
there was a reference to her "brothers" Corso and Ginsberg.
Said John Keats,
Pound, and Zen influenced her and that she lived in San
Francisco with
her four children.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:50:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Some few years
ago, maybe 3 or 4, one of DiPrima's daughters hosted a Weekend
morning
television series for teens. It was an
out and about in the Bay Area
sort of program
dealing with the arts and, I think, a smattering of news. The
daughter seemed
bright, witty, and generally talented.
Fred McDarrah has
published vintage
50's photos of Diane at readings and so forth in the
Village, can't
remember if any were from North Beach.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:54:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Melissa <mbaide@WEBER.EDU>
Subject: to subscribe to beat chat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><html><head></head><BODY
bgcolor="#F0E8D8"><p><font size=7
color="#000000" face="CAC Futura Casual Med. Italic">Can
anyone tell me how to subscribe to this listserve?<br>Melissa
Baide</p>
</font></body></html></x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:13:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: beat videos--welch--San Diego archive
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
While working in
the New Poetry Archive at UC San Diego last week on Lew
Welch I found
references to a some film or video footage of Lew reading.
Has anyone seen
these. When Gary Glazner was on the list
he also mentioned
some Welch
footage. Anyclues would be appreciated
or also Gary's e-mail if
anyone has it, or
if he is lurking these days.
One of the main
attractions of the San Diego archive is the collection of
the papers of
Donald Allen who edited the New American Poets, anothology,
Evergreen Review,
and published poetry for Grove Press and then his own
Grey Fox in
Bolinas. His records are beautifully
organized and kept and
there are good
letters from almost any poet of the period you may be
studying. It's a great collection and the folks there
are helpful. There
is something
about holding a letter by Jack or Lew in your hand that goes
beyond reading
the same thing in a book--even if it were available. I am
also getting the
tape (audio) of Lew's lecture that became "How I work as a
Poet."
James Stauffer
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:32:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: beat videos
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
seen the both.
consider them worth it, for very
different reasons:
towers open fire
is a piece of art, in my opinion; fried shoes more
documentary about
the beats kind of like a home video in some spots,
mc
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> Micah
Maidenberg wrote:
>
> > Anyone
viewed?
>
> === Haven't
seen any of them, but amazon.com sells "Towers Open Fire"
> and
"Fried Shoes"; I've been considering ordering them....
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=
> holland,
j.s.
> ke nt uc ky
> =-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:38:30 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: QR Hand
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i fully agree
with james. unfortunately, i missed his last performance, having
left
CA a few days
before hand. but i had the great pleasure of re-working my
insomniac
quartet with him,
learned some very important exercises and reading for the
sound,
smeaning follows
sound to him. he read my psyhobeautcratic rant to me, and
turned
it into a piece
of fine jazz, indeed. not only that, but he is one of the
warmest
and welcoming
persons i've ever met. sure put me at ease and no pretensions to
block the meeting
of minds.
thanks to leon i
met him, and was able to visit him twice.
mc
James Stauffer
wrote:
> > Dear
Beatl-ers
>
> Folks in the
SF area this week should now that QR hand is performing his poems
> with his group at the Polk Street Roasting
and Cafe as I was informed by his
> friend Leon
> Tabory. QR
has a style that is very rythmic, there are elements of music and
> theatre in what he does, at times reminds me
of a hip hop Greek chorus.
Well
> worth hearing.
> QR leads,
all read, and Jordan also plays sax. The
group consists of.
>
> > Brian
Auerbach
> > Q. R.
Hand
> > Lewis
Jordan
> >
Reginald Lockett
>
> Anyone
thinking about catching this let me know and perhaps we can get
together.
> Well worth it, the man is a treat. Thursday
night, February 12--two shopping
> days till
> Valentines
day.
>
> James
Stauffer
>
> >
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:03:16 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: ...THE DEAD...]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John--if you
don't want replies going automatically to you rather than
the list--try
Bogin's suggestion on reseting your mail preferences.
Seems to work.
Message-ID:
<34DEB7D4.76184B9@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb
1998 08:01:25 +0000
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
jhasbro@tezcat.com
Subject: Re:
...THE DEAD...
References:
<a8bd38a7.34dd3d1d@aol.com> <34DEC926.4074@tezcat.com>
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------5F061199F4D84243C4E16D9A"
<x-html><HTML>
John,
<P>I agree
that <I>Electric Cool Aid</I> is an invaluable source.
Talking with
friends who knew Neal then and earlier, tho, I think a few
caveats are in
order. Not that Wolfe is innaccurate, he mostly worked
from tape and
archival material and is usually quite accurate. More
subtle, however,
is the way in which Kesey and the Pranskters assigned
everyone names
and roles which limited what one did. Those names
were your
Pranskter job. Superman was already taken by Kesey himself,
so Cassidy became
Sir Speed Limit and a somewhat narrow parody of himself.
There are those
who feel that the Speed Limit role ignored some of his
greatest
qualities and emphasized the ones hardest on him.
In death, Kesey
refers to Neal as Superman (in "The Day Superman Died)--but
he would not (I
think, and doubt anyone who knows Kesey would disagree)
have conceeded
that to him in life--Kesey was superman and everyone else
was a bit player.
(With apologies to unnamed sources I may have oversimplified.)
<P>James
Stauffer
<P>John
Hasbrouck wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
TYPE=CITE>The principle connection between the Beats and the
Grateful Dead is
the
<BR>fact
that it is official Dead lore that Neal Cassady was the first
<BR>Deadhead.
This is all part of the great Neal Cassady - Ken Kesey -
<BR>FURTHUR
- Grateful Dead connection which involved Kesey's Merry
<BR>Pranksters'
driving a 1938 schoolbus painted psychedelic colors across
<BR>America
in 1964 - with Neal at the wheel - and Kesey's Acid Test parties
<BR>at
which the Dead played and Cassady danced. I have the ACID TEST video
<BR>from
Key-Z Productions and enjoy the footage of Neal dancing/tripping
to
<BR>the
Dead.
<P>The
priniciple source for this important period in American
<BR>counter-cultural
history is Tom Wolfe's _Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_
<BR>which,
though Wolfe is not a Beat writer per se (he was of the New
<BR>Journalism
School), I consider to be Primary Source Material in Beat
<BR>Literature
(especially for Cassady Studies) due to Wolfe's
<BR>characterisation
of Neal.
<P>-Hasbrouck</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:04:59 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Memoirs of a Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> "MORE SEX!"
>
Maybe not a great editorial suggestion, but
words to live by!
James Stauffer
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:34:29 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: THE DEAD...]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'll speak for
John and guess that the video's he refers to are
available at
Kesey's web site.
James
daniel fascione
wrote:
> there's a
clip of neal dancing to the dead on a beat generation cd
> rom that's
around. if anyone would like this clip please mail me
> direct and
i'll send it to you.
> daniel
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:15:24 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re:
...THE DEAD...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The principle
connection between the Beats and the Grateful Dead is the
fact that it is
official Dead lore that Neal Cassady was the first
Deadhead. This is
all part of the great Neal Cassady - Ken Kesey -
FURTHUR -
Grateful Dead connection which involved Kesey's Merry
Pranksters'
driving a 1938 schoolbus painted psychedelic colors across
America in 1964 -
with Neal at the wheel - and Kesey's Acid Test parties
at which the Dead
played and Cassady danced. I have the ACID TEST video
from Key-Z
Productions and enjoy the footage of Neal dancing/tripping to
the Dead.
The priniciple
source for this important period in American
counter-cultural
history is Tom Wolfe's _Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_
which, though
Wolfe is not a Beat writer per se (he was of the New
Journalism
School), I consider to be Primary Source Material in Beat
Literature
(especially for Cassady Studies) due to Wolfe's
characterisation
of Neal.
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:33:39 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
_Memiors of a
Beatnik_ by Diane di Prima is available through the
Quality Paperback
Club.
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:47:09 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ...THE DEAD...]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
>
> John-
> How do I get
this video of the Kool Aid Test?!
Nan
Nancy,
Go to:
www.key-z.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Lotus-FromDomain:
EUROPAMC
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:12:56 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jose Vega <jvega@EUROPAMC.COM>
Subject: Re: to subscribe to beat chat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
You have to write
an e-mail with this sendto:listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu,
without any
subject and with this body: subscribe BEAT-L FirstName
LastName. Then
you will receive an e-mail with more instructions.
Saludos
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:25:42 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Miss Maher,
Ants in your
pants?
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:20:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Neil M. Hennessy
wrote:
> I'd have to
assume that he invested a lot
> of belief in
HIS's razor "Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted."
=== so it would
seem. But this "true" is not the same as "truth" as
defined below:
> Actually, I
try to avoid the word at all costs, along with a few others
> that have
too much dogma attached to them, like "reality".
==== I don't mean
the "truth" as in "true/false" like the literal
set-in-stone
definitions of quantifiable things that some scientist
would flap his
gums about. I mean "truth" as in that for which we
Terrans struggle
in our quest for; that mysterious fabled greener grass
on the other
side, the bowl o' Lucky Charms at the end of the rainbow,
the final fix,
the ark of the covenant, finding the prize egg, The
Revolution, the
unmasking of the evil ones, the golden ticket in the
candy bar, the
Stuckey's at Sugarcandy Mountain. The day the nameless
mission achieves
its invisible goal.
> If he knew
what he meant, and meant what he said, then he knew "Nothing is
> True.
Everything is Permitted."
=== this too is
truth, as are all good lies.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.Holland, errant
ostrich farmer
k e
n t u
c k y
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:14:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maybe you've
found these titles by now, but I haven't seen them posted:
This Kind of Bird
Flies Backward. New York. Totem Press, 1958.
Dinners and
Nightmares. New York. Corinth Books,
1961.
Poet's
Vaudeville. Feed Folly Press, 1964.
Earthsong. Poets
Press, 1968.
Pieces of a
Song:Selected Poems. City Lights, 1990.
There's alot
more. Find Brenda Knights "Women of
the Beat Generation" for
extensive
bibliography.
Hope this helps,
Preston
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:48:19 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It's true that
Mr. Maher's comments were hostile and he should be
scolded and sent
to bed without supper.
Unlike Maher, I
personally find vague amusement in the relentless
doublespeak and
textbook sophistry found on the list lately. Mr.
J.S.Holland (who
shall remain nameless) is particularly adept at these
useful skills.
Has he, I wonder, considered a career in politics? Oh I
know I'll be
flamed violently, but I rest assured that any disagreement
he may think we
have can be easily explained away with a routine
virtuosic display
of linguistic analysis such as no one prior to
Descartes every
dreamed possible.
-John Hasbrouck
_Philosophy is ordinary language used very
precisely._
- Mortimer J.
Adler
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:09:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Several
collections of DiPrima's poems remain in print.
Waterrow Books or City
Lights should have them available. Also, be on the lookout for DiPrima's fort
hcoming
autobiography which should be released later this year.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:11:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Memoirs of a Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Not a book of
poems but a pornographic memoir.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:13:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: beat videos
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I've seen the
first two. Short annotations are
accurate. Not sure about "Jack
: A
Video." Might this be the Antonelli
film? You have to be careful when bro
wsing through
distributor's video catalogs. The titles
listed aren't always ac
curate.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:18:31 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> I am
concerned. I fear Paul's exit will leave
me as the grumpiest old
> fart on the
list. I will say that I think Gerry Nicosia was right right
> right. Now that old paul is gone i don't have to
fear the fascinating
> rejoiner of
being called fatty patty. no that argument was neither
> boring or
lucid.
> patricia
Patricia,
Paul didn't
really leave did he? I would be sad if he took his ball and
bat and went
home. Did I go too far with the Ants-in-your-pants posting?
I feel powerless.
I hope he stays.
I'm going to stay because I want to raise my reading
level and be an
intellectual like Jack Kerouac.
-Hasbrouck
P.S. Forgive me,
I've been reading Wilde.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:32:07 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: If Beat bores you, maybe you should join
the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Anyone who is
bored with the threads being discussed here is free to
delete them
and/or go away. Or start your own discussion with someone on
your own reading
level.
I think most of
the threads here are boring too, but for the totally
*opposite*
reasons......I don't think the level of conversation here is
intelligent
ENOUGH, yet these people seem to want everything to be
dumbed down even
more.
This is a perfect
illustration of what I was talking about earlier
re:"code"......there
are some people here having conversations in what
they (and I)
consider plain English, yet to others they might as well be
speaking Chinese.
If these same
"bored" listmembers actually had conversations with WSB,
Kerouac, and Ginsberg,
they'd be even more bored - Kerouac's
inquisitive,
probing mind covered vast territories of human thought,
Ginsberg was
given to lofty and academic dissections of such things as
William Blake,
and virtually everything from WSB's mouth was a lecture
in magick or
semantics or pataphysics or dialectics or history. Why do
these bored
listmembers even profess to be interested in Beat, anyway??
Do they think
it's just some hippy-dippy deadhead
take-drugs-and-hitchhike
kinda grooved-out loveburger bullshit?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
kentucky kentucky
kentucky
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:46:07 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> John
Hasbrouck wrote:
> >
> > Unlike
Maher, I personally find vague amusement in the relentless
> >
doublespeak and textbook sophistry found on the list lately. Mr.
> >
J.S.Holland (who shall remain nameless) is particularly adept at these
> > useful
skills. Has he, I wonder, considered a career in politics?
>
> === Haw! You
must have me cornfused with someone else, bud. I just calls
> 'em as I
sees 'em. I make perfect sense to myself, but there are some
> folks here
who sometimes I haveta scratch my head and go hmmmmm at their
> purty words.
(I admit having to get the dictionary and looking up
>
"aleatory" from Mr.Hennessy's recent post... Each time you hear
someone
> use a word
you don't understand, kids, look it up and you'll have
> learned a
new word.).
>
>
"Textbook" sophistry? I haven't read a textbook in years. I'm such a
> college
dropout I can scarcely be said to have ever went. Despite the
>
squabbledegob about too much "academic" talk, I am about as
un-academic
> as can be.
>
Hasbrouck
responds:
By the adjective
_textbook_ I meant _an excellent example of_.
Anyway, this all
reminds me of that quote of Wittgenstein's from when he
was teaching
at...Cambridge, was it? He said _Here I am Chairman of the
Philosophy
Department and I've never read a word of Aristotle_ (or words
to that effect).
I beg pardon for
my profound ignorance, but, if I understand your
position, one can
argue persuasively that BLACK is WHITE. I say this in
reference to the
discussion of the either/or dicotomy and the discussion
of TRUTH. Since
SOPHISTRY is _to make the lesser argument appear the
better_, I
perceive a deep commitment on your part to this art.
If I am off-base,
please enlighten me.
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:53:42 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Today's Challenge
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
BTW, anyone who
is bored on the list should post something
genuinely
interesting about Beat Generation literature.
-John Whittlesey
Hasbrouck, Common Reader
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:32:14 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> And yes,
there *is* a Zen Buddhist way to say that Black is White, and
> that
"lesser" arguments are the better. I do not invoke the Zen Buddhist
> way,
however; I am almost always being quite literal.
>
Of course any
discussion of Zen only clouds the mind.
> Black and
White are both myths created by our primitive sensory
> abilities,
by the way.
>
This is sophistry
of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
defer to your
utter mastery of this great art. As we all know, it is
impossible to win
any argument with such an opponent, since the rules of
the game are
constantly changing. It is truly Alice in Wonderland.
However great is
the temptation to remain involved in the discussion,
one must
ultimately walk away if one is preserve one's humanity. (Yes,
humanity.) I
therefore concede complete defeat, my only regret being
that I was once
again drawn into this quagmire of doggeral.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:32:43 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Hasbrouck
wrote:
>
> Unlike
Maher, I personally find vague amusement in the relentless
> doublespeak
and textbook sophistry found on the list lately. Mr.
> J.S.Holland
(who shall remain nameless) is particularly adept at these
> useful
skills. Has he, I wonder, considered a career in politics?
=== Haw! You must
have me cornfused with someone else, bud. I just calls
'em as I sees
'em. I make perfect sense to myself, but there are some
folks here who
sometimes I haveta scratch my head and go hmmmmm at their
purty words. (I
admit having to get the dictionary and looking up
"aleatory"
from Mr.Hennessy's recent post... Each time you hear someone
use a word you
don't understand, kids, look it up and you'll have
learned a new
word.).
"Textbook"
sophistry? I haven't read a textbook in years. I'm such a
college dropout I
can scarcely be said to have ever went. Despite the
squabbledegob
about too much "academic" talk, I am about as un-academic
as can be.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.Scott Holland
long live Animal
Farm
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:41:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Memoirs of a Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Not a book
of poems but a pornographic memoir.
The story I heard
behind it is that as she sent portions to her publisher
for criticism
they were returned with "MORE SEX!" written in big red
letters at the
top of the front page, so the total veracity of the book
can be looked on
with a suspicious eye.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:45:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
Comments: To:
John Hasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Its also
available in any bookstore..
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, John Hasbrouck wrote:
> _Memiors of
a Beatnik_ by Diane di Prima is available through the
> Quality
Paperback Club.
>
> -Hasbrouck
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:59:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: buncha whats?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> I am
concerned. I fear Paul's exit will leave
me as the grumpiest old
> fart on the
list.
don't go
patricia: if you do i will be left as the craziest ageless not
always fart free
woman on the list (chronologically me 45th birthday is
this month,) but
i have banned all calendars forever!
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:08:06 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bored and Proud
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Julian Ruck
wrote:
> sometimes overanalysis ruins something...
> keep that in
mind...
=== Maybe for
you. Not for me. Or for anyone else who is partaking in
the
"overanalyzing", obviously. If you don't dig it, don't feel
obligated to
enter the conversation. Start your own thread on a topic
you're interested
in and if anyone joins in, enjoy. But no one is going
to alter their
mode of speech, or for that matter, their mode of
thinking, to make
their posts more palatable to you or anyone else.
If a thread
"bores" you, butt out and read another thread. We aren't
here to entertain
you. We are not like you. We will not try to be like
you. Deal with
it. Just click delete on any post with my name on it,
don't even read
it. Simple as pie. And if you find yourself, as you
already said,
deleting the majority of the posts, then what's the point
of even being on
such a list in the first place?
Y'see, Julian,
the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what
might be right
for you might not be right for some, it takes Diff'rent
Strokes to move
the world, yes it does, it takes Diff'rent Strokes to
move the world.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J to the S to the
H
ky ky ky ky ky ky
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:12:25 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: THE DEAD...]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
the clip is from
an actual acid test, with interviews with kesey et all.
neil is there
dancing, the film very grainy b&w: and you KNOW these
people have drunk
a LOT of Kool aid because the dead totally suck, w/pig
pen singing blues
and jerry trying to get some spirals going.
but it is a fun
video to watch.
i inadvertantly
recorded over mine.
mc
daniel fascione
wrote:
> there's a
clip of neal dancing to the dead on a beat generation cd
> rom that's
around. if anyone would like this clip please mail me
> direct and
i'll send it to you.
> daniel
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:17:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ...THE DEAD...]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John-
How do I get this
video of the Kool Aid Test?!
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, James Stauffer wrote:
> John--if you
don't want replies going automatically to you rather than
> the
list--try Bogin's suggestion on reseting your mail preferences.
> Seems to
work.
>
>
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:17:24 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: beat videos
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi guys: i was
the one who said towers open fire is art; but am not the one on
the scene for
funeral or bardos. ask patricial elliot about that.
mc
Sean Elias wrote:
> In a message
dated 98-02-09 07:35:51 EST, you write:
>
> <<
towers open fire is a piece of art >>
>
> Certainly is
IMHO, also.
>
> Not meaning to get too off the track here,
but-----after WSB died there was
> mention on
this list, by a close personal friend (was it you?) of a buddhist
> ceremony
performed in Lawrence---This involved the ritual burning of objects
> assosciated
w/ the deceased to send their spirits to the afterlife and provide
> comfort
(?)...
>
> any further
information on the nature of this ceremony would be greatly
>
apprecated--I need to know the "name" and would appreciate directions
to links
> that would
help me better understand just what the buddhists hope to
> accomplish
by this...
>
> best,
>
> bean
>
> spelias@aol.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:19:06 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Dante Alighieri and Jack Kerouac.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
and, 'nothing
left to do but smile smile smile' - jerry garcia
deadhead mc
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> 30
> Sociability
is a big smile, and a big smile is
> nothing but
theeth. Rest and be kind. --Jack Kerouac
> The
Scripture
> of the Golden
>
Eternity.
>
> C A N T
O X X V I I
>
> And all I
saw, meseemed to see therein
> A smile of all creation
> --Dante
> Comedy, Paradise
> XXVII 4-5
>
> (Par. XXVII
4-5
> "Cio'
ch'io vedeva mi sembrava un riso
> de
'universo")
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:26:11 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<sk312@pophost.city.ac.uk>
From: daniel fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: THE DEAD...]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
there's a clip of
neal dancing to the dead on a beat generation cd
rom that's
around. if anyone would like this clip please mail me
direct and i'll
send it to you.
daniel
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:27:31 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Hasbrouck
wrote:
> I beg pardon
for my profound ignorance, but, if I understand your
> position,
one can argue persuasively that BLACK is WHITE. I say this in
> reference to
the discussion of the either/or dicotomy and the discussion
> of TRUTH.
Since SOPHISTRY is _to make the lesser argument appear the
> better_, I
perceive a deep commitment on your part to this art.
>
> If I am
off-base, please enlighten me.
=== You're
off-base. But anything else I say at this point would only be
a restatement of
what I have already said. If ya still don't get what
I'm sayin', I
don't know any other way of puttin' it. Don't worry, it's
not terribly
important.
And yes, there
*is* a Zen Buddhist way to say that Black is White, and
that
"lesser" arguments are the better. I do not invoke the Zen Buddhist
way, however; I
am almost always being quite literal.
Black and White
are both myths created by our primitive sensory
abilities, by the
way.
"We're
through the looking glass here, Gentlemen... Black is white - and
white is
black." - Jim Garrison, 'JFK'.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.Scott Holland,
ky
listening to
Jerry Lee Lewis
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:40:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Today's Challenge
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Hasbrouck
wrote:
>
> BTW, anyone
who is bored on the list should post something
> genuinely
interesting about Beat Generation literature.
=== define
"genuinely interesting". Or you just mean genuinely
interesting to
YOU? I was genuinely interested in today's posts on Diane
DiPrima,
videotapes of the Beat writers, Rinaldo Rasa's nice
Dante-Kerouac
quotes, and, of course, the ongoing WSB/cut-up thread.
Exactly what is
it that you people want us to be talking about? Don't
wait for us cause
we ain't gonna post it, obviously - start a thread and
post it yourself!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeff Holland, KY
drinking the root
beer of the Gods
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
markov.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@markov.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:41:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: The Importance of being a Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 7 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> Neil M.
Hennessy wrote:
>
>
> > That's
the second time you've used the word "truth" in relation to
> >
Burroughs, when "truth" in his writing from the Nova Trilogy onwards
is a
> > totally
bankrupt concept. Can you elaborate?
>
> === The
answer from my mind: Bankrupt? hmmm, never thought of it that
> way. I
wasn't talking about "truth" in his writing, I was referring to
> the quest
for truth in his personal life.
Assuming there's
some correspondance between what he writes and what he
believes (which
is a safe assumption, see "Commisioner of Sewers" where he
calls Kim Carsons
his spokesman) I'd have to assume that he invested a lot
of belief in
HIS's razor "Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted."
> Truth is
TRUTH, you know, I know what I mean when I say "truth" and you
> know what
you mean when you say "truth"
Actually, I try
to avoid the word at all costs, along with a few others
that have too
much dogma attached to them, like "reality".
> and WSB knew
what he meant too, but some of you
> couldn't
afford the truth as you wanna hear it, man,
If he knew what
he meant, and meant what he said, then he knew "Nothing is
True. Everything
is Permitted."
> In death,
WSB may have made it but that's a squabble for another cobble.
Yeah, may have
made it into Space. That may be the greatest Burroughsian
quandary of all:
Death IS the escape from Body and Time into Space. For an
exploration of
this suggestion, see
http://www.interlog.com/~fiction/burroughs/ghost_writing.html
Thanks,
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
markov.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@markov.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:48:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, cut-ups, Dada
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 7 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> Neil M.
Hennessy wrote:
>
> > I don't
consider Burroughs' grandiose claims foolish. Prehaps the reason
> > he
never convincingly articulated the original purpose of his cut-ups is
> > due to
the paradoxical nature of his project: fighting the control of
> > words
with words.
>
> === Exactly.
What could be more foolish than that? That's like holding
> back the
ocean with a dam made of water. And I
never said there was
> anything
foolish about fighting the control of words - WSB specifically
> said he wanted
to "destroy language" - as if we'd all communicate via
> telepathy or
something afterwards. From Tristan Tzara this statement is
> expected,
but this was a bit of step for the usually level-headed WSB.
I think we're
both circling the same track here, and I'm probably getting
caught up in
semantics (and we know the evils of that). I took foolish to
connote something
along the lines of worthless, and stupid. You obviously
weren't using it
that way.
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
markov.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@markov.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:58:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, Joyce, codes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 7 Feb
1998, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
> Neil M.
Hennessy wrote:
> >
> > Two
assumptions in the above are extremely suspect, firstly that there is
> > a
definable average reader, and secondly that any text can be fully
> >
understood, "ordinary" or not.
>
> === Amend my
statement to read "average PERSON". And the average person,
> in America
anyway, is barely even a reader at all. I agree with you that
> no text can
be fully understood.
I think I
understand what you mean. Here's Darren Wershler-Henry on the
same note
(although with a tad more contempt):
[snip]
face it. less
than ten percent of the population reads more than one book
per month. it'd
be laughably optimistic to assume that even one percent of
that ten is
reading poetry or anything resembling what was once called
avant-garde
writing; the bulk of them are up to their glazed eyeballs in
Garfield
collections, cookbooks and Anne Rice novels (it's not that this
situation has
gotten worse over the years; it probably was never all that
shit-hot in the
first place. hell, even Gutenberg had to print a line of
BIBLES to finance
his artier gigs). furthermore, bogus MuchMusic populism
isn't going to
change matters. the transformation of poetic performances
into videos
simply reveals the ugly truth--the "spoken word" revolution is
approximately as
dangerous and/or interesting as a Gap ad.
[snip, from the
mission statement of TORQUE]
> > the
aleatory syntactic structures of Burroughs' cut-up writing are
> >
introduced to implicitly prevent the possibility of explication.
>
> === that is
what you say. I see it as just the opposite. Only the
> skeleton is
presented, much of the meat is subjective.
Care to
elaborate? What do you mean by meat and skeleton? If it's along
the lines of the
artist providing the port of entry, or blowing the hole
in time with a
firecracker so that others can step through, then I follow.
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:26:03 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Hasbrouck
wrote:
>
> This is
sophistry of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
> defer to
your utter mastery of this great art.
=== Gosh, thanky.
But it also happens to be true : the frequencies of
the emission spectra
of various objects' composition is what our eyes
perceive as
"color", and the frequencies of our eyes are capable of
detecting are
only a tiny fraction of the available wavelengths,
so....oh, forget
it.
You brought the
subject up anyway, not me. If ya can't stand the smell
of mothballs, get
outta the attic.
> As we all
know, it is
> impossible
to win any argument with such an opponent, since the rules of
> the game are
constantly changing. It is truly Alice in Wonderland.
> However great
is the temptation to remain involved in the discussion,
> one must
ultimately walk away if one is preserve one's humanity. (Yes,
> humanity.) I
therefore concede complete defeat, my only regret being
> that I was
once again drawn into this quagmire of doggeral.
=== Rules
constantly changing? Again, you have me confused with someone
else. I think I'm
the only one around here whose rules *aren't*
constantly
changing - I stand behind any statements I make (even the
wrong ones) and
will again tomorrow. You, on the other hand, seem
determined to
quibble at all costs, no matter where it leads us.
For the viewers
at home : Note the technique by which the rationalist,
frustrated with
attempts to hammer down everything precisely into the
boxes he sees
fit, paints me as The Mad Hatter, even as he employs the
very same
solipsism and sophistry he accuses *me* of. And haughtily and
sarcastically
congratulates me when the kudos should go to *his* snack
bowl. There is a
lovely piece of mind-fuck here, but it is not of my
creation.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland,
kentucky
off to bake
cookies
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:31:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
You guys (meaning
those who most frequently post their tirades, opinions,
academicisms,
etc.) have done the impossible.You have turned Beat Literature
in general and
Jack Kerouac in particular into a dull subject. No mean to be
offended but this
is the dullest discussion group. What a bunck of f*****g
bores! I have
pulled my web page to put it out of the reach of you extermely
monotonous
wanna-Beats! I mean, I might not be the most exciting participant
but face it...I
cannot possibly be as boring and one-dimenasional as some of
you folks. Those
of you who really want the next issue of TKQ notify me
privately. You
others..feel free to write your incurious determinations to
each other. I
find it most wearying having to delete 90% of the posts that
appear in my
mailbox. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:34:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Memoirs of a Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-09 10:45:59 EST, you write:
<<
> Not a book of poems but a pornographic
memoir.
The story I heard behind it is that as she
sent portions to her publisher
for criticism they were returned with
"MORE SEX!" written in big red
letters at the top of the front page, so the
total veracity of the book
can be looked on with a suspicious eye.
>>
Which should not
take away from the fact that it is an enjoyable, sometimes
infromative and
definitely historic read/////////////
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Envelope-to:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
X-VMS-To:
IN%"BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:40:10 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Okay..while we
are on the subject of death I'll ask a potentially stupid
question (of
which I haven't been able to find the answer for thus far):
How did Neal
Cassady die? Someone told me a tale of
alcohol and/or drugs
and railroad
tracks. Ick. Anyone know for sure? Thanks.
:)
Mary
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:41:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beat videos
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-09 07:35:51 EST, you write:
<< towers
open fire is a piece of art >>
Certainly is
IMHO, also.
Not meaning to get too off the track here,
but-----after WSB died there was
mention on this
list, by a close personal friend (was it you?) of a buddhist
ceremony
performed in Lawrence---This involved the ritual burning of objects
assosciated w/
the deceased to send their spirits to the afterlife and provide
comfort (?)...
any further
information on the nature of this ceremony would be greatly
apprecated--I
need to know the "name" and would appreciate directions to links
that would help
me better understand just what the buddhists hope to
accomplish by
this...
best,
bean
spelias@aol.com
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Dante
Alighieri and Jack Kerouac.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01ITCMWDKYV68Y7ZLZ@cc.WEBER.EDU>
References:
30
Sociability is a
big smile, and a big smile is
nothing but
theeth. Rest and be kind. --Jack Kerouac
The
Scripture
of the Golden
Eternity.
C A N T O X X V I I
And all I saw,
meseemed to see therein
A smile of all creation
--Dante
Comedy, Paradise
XXVII 4-5
(Par. XXVII 4-5
"Cio' ch'io
vedeva mi sembrava un riso
de
'universo")
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: I BEATNIKS
SONO SPORCHI? LA BOMBA ATOMICA E' PULITA?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01ITCMWDKYV68Y7ZLZ@cc.WEBER.EDU>
References:
| Nazim Hikmet
Camarades, s'il ne m'est pas donne' de vivre
ce jour-la'
Si, en somme, j'allais mourir avant que notre
jour arrive
Portez-moi en Anatolie.
Enterrez-moi dans un cimitiere de village
Et, si possible, un platane su-dessus de moi
suffit
Je me passerai bien de pierre et d'epitaphe.
|15 november 1966
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:02:45 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 09
Feb 1998 18:52:23...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:52:23 +0100
with subject "I BEATNIKS
SONO SPORCHI? LA
BOMBA ATOMICA E' PULITA?" has been successfully distributed
to the BEAT-L
list (252 recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:02:48 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 09
Feb 1998 18:44:08...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message dated
Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:44:08 +0100 with subject
"Dante
Alighieri and
Jack Kerouac." has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (252
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.27]
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:14:00 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Amen TkQ...
i agree..i didn't
want to seem like an uneducated simpleton....but most
of the stuff
that's posted i delete without reading...i just read the
beginning post and
decide if it interests me....and let the others
go....
they can bore me
to tears...
i don't mean to
offend you guys...i'm just being honest...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:21:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> So you are
saying 500nM is the same as 700 nM? Or
that orange is blue?
=== I said
nothing remotely of the sort.
=-=-=
jsh
ky
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:24:00 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Van - Kavanagh -/mike c:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
mc2: pls email me
privately.
to all, excuse
the bandwidth. my mailer has turned into a surly beast ...
not in the least
like it's owner.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:24:59 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
eric mayhew
wrote:
>
> Mr. Holland,
> Your continuous
dependency upon defensive rebuttles is giving me a
>
heartahce. You seem to be talking in
circles
=== Since the
only reply I could give to a crack like this is a
defensive
rebuttal, what then I am supposed to say?
> Start talking about the Beats again. Leave well enough
> alone. And, tell me what you mean by
"rationalist".
=== I've BEEN
talking about the Beats, hellooooooooo? Now you want me to
explain
rationalism.....make up your mind.
=-=-=
jsh
ky
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:25:21 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Burroughs, Joyce, codes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Neil M. Hennessy
wrote:
> Care to
elaborate? What do you mean by meat and skeleton? If it's along
> the lines of
the artist providing the port of entry, or blowing the hole
> in time with
a firecracker so that others can step through, then I follow.
=== Right on.
=-=-=
jsh
ky
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:28:20 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: AG Flick @ AnthologyFilmArchives
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
living up here in
the vt wild, is there a chance in future to gain a copy of
this?
mc
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
> Ginny et al-
> I enjoyed it
too, despite Jonas lack of adeptness with a camcorder (lots
> and lots of
buttshots and Peter Orlovsky at a wierd angle...it reminded me
> of the
videos from mine and my sisters bats miztvahs!) I wasnt sure what
> to expect
but I thought it would be more professionally done. However,
> Jonas
probably thought of this at the last minute, since Allen's death
> seemed to
creep up all at once. At least, it did for me.
> ~Nancy
>
> ********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:39:58 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: BEAT-L: Meaning of America: I
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
[to those who
have already seen the following text
elsewhere, I
apologize for thrusting it's bits
at you again-
gss]
----------------------------------------------------
by Gregory
Severance
Meaning of
America: I
I'm addressing
you, Henry.
Luce has set.
Are you going to
up one of the greatest?
Let your
emotional word-and-image bank's life be run
by in the world.
I mean Time
Magazine.
I'm there.
Are thousands of
obsessed by Time photos, thousands
of Magazines I read, words about anything,
it?
Every week it's
and.
Everything, all
in cover, stares at me: his files,
all, the best.
Every time I
slink, pictures go into the files past
the corner.
Of course they're
reduced, Candystore.
I read to
microphotos now.
It, in the
basement, I've been interested in.
Of: the Berkeley
public; the Mayan system Library.
It's always which
was.
A control telling
me about calendar.
You see,
responsibility, business, their calendar,
men, are serious--postulated, really.
Movie producers
are how.
Everyone should
serious everybody's feel.
At a given time
serious but me, it with Lucky.
Days unlucky,
days occur to me, that, et cetera.
And I?
I am America; I
feel that.
Luce's system is
talking to, is comparable to, that
myself.
Again it is a
control system I have.
Mystical: it has
nothing.
To do visions and
cosmic, with reporting Time vibrations,
America-Life-Fortune is.
Some, I feel,
sentimental sort of police organization.
February 2-8,
1998
New York City,
America
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
Bulldog Breath
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
"For the poet, language is a
structure
of the external
world. The speaker [writer of
prose-gss] is IN
A SITUATION in language; he
is invested with
words. They are prolongations
of his meanings,
his pincers, his antennae, his
eyeglasses. He
maneuvers them from within; he
feels them as if
they were his body; he is
surrounded by a
verbal body which he is hardly
aware of and
which extends his action upon the
world. The poet
is outside of language. He sees
words inside out
as if he did not share the
human condition,
and as if he were first meeting
the word as a barrier
as he comes toward men.
Instead of first
knowing things by their name,
it seems that
first he has a silent contact with
them, since,
turning toward that other species of
thing which for
him is the word, touching them,
testing them,
palping them, he discovers in them
a slight
luminosity of their own and particular
affinities with
the earth, the sky, the water,
and all created
things."
"Not knowing how to use them as a
SIGN of
an aspect of the
world, he sees . . ."
from "WHAT
IS LITERATURE?" AND OTHER ESSAYS
by Jean-Paul
Sartre
trans. by Bernard
Frechtman
(New York:
Philosophical Library, Inc., 1949)
(Cambridge:
Harvard University Press, 1988, paperback)(p. 30)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:53:54 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul Maher wrote:
> You guys
(meaning those who most frequently post their tirades, opinions,
>
academicisms, etc.) have done the impossible.You have turned Beat
Literature
> in general
and Jack Kerouac in particular into a dull subject. No mean to
be
> offended but
this is the dullest discussion group. What a bunck of
f*****g
> bores! I
have pulled my web page to put it out of the reach of you
extermely
> monotonous
wanna-Beats! I mean, I might not be the most exciting
participant
> but face
it...I cannot possibly be as boring and one-dimenasional as some
of
> you folks.
Those of you who really want the next issue of TKQ notify me
> privately.
You others..feel free to write your incurious determinations
to
> each other.
I find it most wearying having to delete 90% of the posts
that
> appear in my
mailbox. P.
Speaking for
myself, this will certainly be a less hostile list if you do
indeed decide to
disappear, Paul. Thanks for the offer.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:59:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Skank
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
whatever your
thoughts are on diPrima, paul, i find your need to express your
thoughts through
such derogatory and loathesome word choices.
and no, i'm not
ms manners or emily post. just offended by putdowns in such
guttersnipe
language.
there were many
men connected and central to beats who slept and told, but no
man leaps to
calling them skanks.
just my thoughts.
see that you're still
here swinging.
so where in the
cosmos did you fling your web site so that we unworthies cannot
access it?
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:08:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
paul, i couldn't
agree more with what you wrote below. i just wish you didn't
have the need to
couch your criticisms of the layabouts in 'shock-value
tactics" to
use your own words. i don't think there was a 'generation' of
beats, just a
bunch of incredibly talented intelligent friends who broke the
eisenhower
barrier.
sincerely
mc
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
> At the risk
of ponitificating this opinion upon you folks...there are those
> out there
who know what I'm talking about so agree amongst yourselves or
> voice in
support. These various figures cannot be claimed as true "writers"
> who carried
the spirit of the Beat Generation. true there was a Beat
> Generation
which carries forth into this day with the same freeloaders and
> layabouts
who want to call themselves Beat but are really jobless and
> without a
self-identity. I split Kerouac away from this garbage because he,
> unlike the
others who profess to be part of this alleged generation,(which
> was not
really a generation but instead, a crew of oppurtunists who rode
> then and to
this day on the coattails of Kerouac).
> Kerouac wrote. Day in and day out he wrote
and was therefore a writer. He
> stands alone
in the history of American Literature as a writer of huge
> proportions.
Like the writers of the Lost Generation he had genius and
> talent. He
would have written had there not been a Beat Generation. What can
> be said for
all the other mediocrities he had fostered from then till now?
> They wrote
because they had to be encouraged. When they wrote in notebooks,
> it was
Kerouac who typed up major portions of the manuscript and encouraged
> their
writing (Burroughs) or showed them a style and they copied it forever
> after
(Ginsberg who had always professed to be a mere imitator of Kerouac).
> Would
Ferlinghetti be a known poet if he had not self-published his own
> poetry? Now
Im not saying that none of the afore-mentioned writers aren't
> talented
writers...just this, they all were supported in their chosen
> careers by
Kerouac. They may be geniuses in their own right...but...well
> Burroughs
literatire had floundered when he distanced himself from his
> fellow Beats
and went on his own journey. Only his later post-cutup lit
> could ever
touch the fire of Naked Lunch. Ginsberg's poetry thrived on his
> past
inventions instead of trying to reinvent himself or just plain falling
> for lame
shock-value tactics in his poetry (read "Come On Jack").
> At least
Kerouac recognized this and stayed away. His mind was on his own
> true vision of
the world and he continued to expound on it,though
>
unsuccessfully with his savage bouts of drinking.
> I'm just asking you all to really consider
if this was a generation at all
> or...like
the followers of Picasso who adopted Abstract Cubism in their
> repertoire
of works but could not continue after it because they did not
> arrive their
themselves. This era was all about Jack and that is that. P.
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:36:07 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote on 2/9/98
> I'm just asking you all to really consider if
this was a generation at all
>or...like the
followers of Picasso who adopted Abstract Cubism in their
>repertoire of
works but could not continue after it because they did not
>arrive their
themselves.
I don't mind
considering this for a moment or two.
PAM Jr.:
>This era was
all about Jack and that is that. P.
You have an
interesting opinion here and an interesting way of
articulating it.
However, I don't agree.
UNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORK
Gregory
Severance || morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<<BULLDOG BREATH>>>
"Severin,
Severin, speak so slightly
Severin, down on
your bended knee
Taste the whip,
in love not given lightly
Taste the whip,
now plead for me"
from "Venus
in Furs" by Lou Reed
on the album _The
Velvet Underground and Nico_ (1967)
UNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:56:03 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I am
concerned. I fear Paul's exit will leave
me as the grumpiest old
fart on the list.
I will say that I think Gerry Nicosia was right right
right. Now that old paul is gone i don't have to
fear the fascinating
rejoiner of being
called fatty patty. no that argument was neither
boring or lucid.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MR-Received: by
mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Mon, 09 Feb 1998 15:12:43 -0500
Alternate-recipient:
prohibited
Posting-date:
Mon, 09 Feb 1998 15:12:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance:
normal
Priority: normal
UA-content-id:
E198ZXFYLQOFN
X400-MTS-identifier:
[;34215190208991/1934405@FIRNVX]
A1-type: MAIL
Hop-count: 1
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:10:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "James F. Wood 253-7886"
<WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>
Subject: Tampa area
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi any Beats
and/or beat activity in the Tampa ,Fl area???
I know of some
Old hippies and the rainbow family are
around but anyone
else?
Thanks
jim
woodj@mail.firn.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.31]
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:31:38 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Bored and Proud
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I know i am not a favorite on this list....
but i just have to say that the beat wasn't
just about questioning...it
was about
creating, and just letting things go...
sometimes overanalysis ruins something...
keep that in
mind...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:51:10 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gregory S. wrote:
>>You have
an interesting opinion here and an interesting way of
>>articulating
it. However, I don't agree.
P. A. Maher, Jr.
responded:
>I'll take
that as a compliemnt..
[. . . ]
G. S. remarks:
Okay.
G. S. reveals:
I intended my
statement to be neither a compliment
nor an insult.
$ $ $ $ $ $ ? ?
? $ $ $ $ % % % ??
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
"Have you ever admonished an
ostracized mole?
Don't compromise with mystics and soothsayers.
There
is nothing organic about the concessions they
originate.
When the welkin rumbles, and you're
thunderstruck by
the noise, trundle over to the shelter where
you'll
evade and dodge the diminutive infinitesimal
rattlings of
the insects that will tab you for a culinary
repast. Be
jovial in the huddle that will confer on you
the
cupidity of a grand miser."
-- Orion
DON'T CALL ME HARVEY (with Margueritte)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:52:23 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg & Poe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> To what
extent did Poe influence Ginsberg? Did
Poe's work or
> Poe's life
have a greater influence on Ginsberg's sensibility? Can we
> identify any
specific connections between Poe's writings (poems or
> prose) and
Ginsberg's work?
Good
questions. I would suggest from the poem
I've posted below that
Ginsburg was
quite inspired by Poe, even refering to his as Prophet and
speaking of his
"vision."
Haunting Poe's Baltimore by Allen Ginsberg
I POE IN DUST
Baltimore bones
groan maliciously under sidewalk
Poe hides his
hideous skeleton under church yard
Equinoctial worms
peep thru his mummy ear
The slug rides
his skull, black hair twisted in roots of threadbare grass
Blind mole at
heart, caterpillars shudder in his ribeage
Intestines wound
with garter snakes
midst dry dust,
snake eye & gut sifting thru his pelvis
Slimed moss green
on his phosphor'd toenails, sole toeing black
tombstone--
O prophet Poe
well writ! your catacomb cranium chambered
eyeless, secret
hid to moonlight ev'n under corpse-rich ground
where tread
priest, passeby, and poet
staring
white-eyed thru barred spiked gates
at viaducts
heavy-bound and manacled upon the city's heart.
January 10, 1977
II HEARING
"LENORE" READ ALOUD AT 203 AMITY STREET
The light still
gleams reflected from the brazen fire-tongs
The spinet is now
silent to the ears of silent throngs
For the Spirit of
the Poet, who sang well of brides and ghouls
Still remains to
haunt what children will obey his vision's rules.
They who weep and
burn in houses scattered thick on Jersey's shore
Their eyes have
seen his ghostly image, though the Prophet walks no
more
Raven bright
& cat of Night; and his wines of Death still run
In their veins
who haunt his brains, hidden from the human sun.
Reading words
aloud from books, till a century has passed
In his house his heirs
carouse, till his woes are theirs at last:
So I saw a pale
youth trembling, speaking rhymes Poe spoke before,
Till Poe's light
rose on the living, and his Fire gleamed on the floor--
The sitting room
lost its cold gloom, I saw these generations burn
With the beauty
he abandoned; in new bodies they return:
To inspire future
children 'spite his Raven's "Nevermore"
I have writ this
antient riddle in Poe's house in Baltimore.
January
16, 1977
This is from
"Mind Breaths all over the Place."
He also wrote another
poem in "The
Fall of America," titled "To Poe: Over the Planet, Air
Albany-Baltimore"
where he also refers to Poe's "prophesies" quite a few
times. Perhaps he thought of him as a visionary poet
in the same
category as
William Blake.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
peent@cyber2.servtech.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:53:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Van - Kavanagh - Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>From Van-info
list, just posted. Beat reference in 6th and 7th paragraphs.
Any comments?
Gerald Dawe on
the landscape of Van Morrison's
classic Madame George track from
Astral Weeks,
now 30 years old.
The residential patterning of the
parts of the
city such as north and east Belfast
revealed a
scallop-shell of class
segregation, not matched
by other districts. Clustered
around the lough
on both shores, the working-class
districts
fanned out and upwards, via main
arterial roads,
spliced with boulevard avenues,
and often
embracing distinctive districts
that had once
been villages along with, in the
1950s and
1960s, the new estates.
The patterning incorporated
rescheduled
waterways, rivers, streams as well
as enclosing
cemeteries, displaced big houses
of once
prosperous merchants, and
maintained parks and
green-sites before reaching
hillsides such as
Castlereagh.
This red-bricked civic landscape
of back-lanes,
entries, streets, terraces, road
and avenues had
a definite if rarely articulated
class-formation. To move within it
was to
experience the all-so-visible
distinctions of a
provincial urban society. To move
literally from
it was to encounter the shifting
magical
thresholds between city and
country. Van
Morrison's songs are powerful
testaments to both
these levels of perception. The
mysterious
luminous quality of Astral Weeks
is earthed in
the wonder, surprise and customs
associated with
leaving his own back-bedroom,
going down his own
street ("as we said goodbye
at your front door",
he says in The Way Young Lovers
Do) to inhabit
his own district, its daylight and
nightlight,
walking through Beersbridge and Orangefield,
taking in everything.
Cypress Avenue is not only a
place, it was the
idea of another place; the
railway, the river:
all are conduits through which
Morrison's
imagination is freed.
Madame George, the key lyric in
Astral Weeks,
dramatises this condition with a
haunting
portrait of belonging and leaving.
This lyric,
with its story-telling and
repetitions, the
anarchic mantra of the love it
seeks to express
and its almost obsessive
questioning, suggests
comparison with the poet Patrick
Kavanagh.
It is pure coincidence of course
that Kavanagh,
who was in the United States in
1965 for a
symposium on W.B. Yeats, should
remark that he
(Kavanagh) was all in favour of
the Beat poets.
"I like Corso, Ferlinghetti,
and Allen Ginsberg
very much . . . there are these
lads in America,
these youngsters that I admire
very much".
What Kavanagh saw in the work of
the Beats is
curious given the Irish situation
he had in his
mind. They had, he said, "all
written direct,
personal statements, nothing
involved, no, just
statements about their position.
That's all.
They are not bores as far as I am
concerned".
Kavanagh's voice of
dissatisfaction with
convention ("boredom"),
strengthened by his
subjective romanticism
("direct personal
statements") is very close to
the poetic vision
of Astral Weeks and in particular
to the voice
which recites Madame George.
I first heard the song early in
1969 from the US
album somebody had obviously got a
copy of and
by the time it was released in the
UK in
September of that year Astral
Weeks had become
cultic.
Memory plays tricks with
historical reality but
it seems to me looking back over
25 years
towards the twelve months between
the end of
1969 and 1970, everyone was playing Astral
Weeks
throughout the Belfast which I
knew.
That year was a watershed for
every generation
in Belfast, but particularly so
for those of us
who were leaving our teenage years
behind and
becoming young men and women.
Friends would soon
go their own way, across the water
to England,
taking up jobs, going to college,
disappearing.
The months leading out of the
1960s into the
1970s correspond, loosely and in
an inchoate and
inarticulate way, with a social
and cultural
breakup of life as we had known
it.
Madame George captured that
feeling, and still
does. It was a strange quiet
before the storm.
The clubs were still doing good
trade, with
parties at weekends, and visiting
big names -
Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, The
Small Faces -
played the Ulster, King's or
Whitla Hall. People
hung out and there was little
aggro, except for
the usual sort of fighting that
made Belfast
city-centre a dangerous place some
Saturday
nights. But you could still walk
throughout the
wider city without too much
anxiety or fear. But
within a matter of a year or so,
you took your
life in your hands for so doing.
Madame George gives that freer
time a
distinctive sound and context. The
shock of
hearing the phrase, "On a
train from Dublin up
to Sandy Row" has never quite
left me. An
inexplicable connection, coded
beneath the words
themselves, identified for the
first time the
actual city in which I lived.
Sandy Row, a Protestant
working-class district
in Belfast's inner-city through
which the train
runs, is named; the custom of throwing
pennies
into the Boyne River (the
iconographic site for
the Protestant defence of the
British Crown and
faith in Ireland) which we did
without knowing
why, and the transfixing
"trance".
Sitting on a sofa playing games of
chance,
With your folded arms in history
books you
glance,
Into the eyes of Madame George.
Much has been read into this
extraordinary song.
For me, it is an ashling, "a
child-like vision"
which portrays a world of loss and
gain,
ceremonies and evasions, past and
present,
shifting like a carousel between
real and
imagined people and places.
The soldier boy who is older now
with hat on,
drinking wine. How many streets
and roads had a
few such men, tripping home after
the pubs
closed, at odds with the world
they returned to
and the front rooms, filled with
music/laughing
music, dancing music?
Madame George is a portrait of a
society about
to withdraw from public view at
the same time as
the voice which describes it is
also leaving the
scene. Memories shift and
coalesce. The site of
the poem blurs and moves in and
out of focus. It
is the Belfast of Cypress Avenue;
there is a
Fitzroy Avenue too. The rituals of
collecting
bottle-tops/Going for cigarettes
and matches in
the shops are identifiably
Belfast. But the
journey is on a train from Dublin
up to Sandy
Row. Parsing the song in this
fashion does not
take us far. What is constant is the
voice and
the connections which the accent
makes between
raps, cops, drops and gots.
What is unmistakable about
Morrison's
achievement, from the late 1960s
to the 1990s,
is the steady, unflinching
challenge which first
his voice and then subsequently
his lyrics and
music embodies. The voice is a
powerful
ambiguity, revelling in itself,
but dismissive
too, while the lyrics have
explored (and
anticipated) much of the
imaginative ambition
and desire of Morrison's poetic
peers.
The Rest Is History by Gerald Dawe
is published
this week by Abbey Press. Abbey
Press emerged
from Abbey Arts Week in February
1997 at Abbey
Grammar School in Newry. The
company has since
published several books: Signals,
an anthology
of previously unpublished work by
16 writers
involved in Arts Week, including
Michael
Longley, Robert McLiam Wilson and
Glenn
Patterson; Impediments, a
collection of poetry
by Adrian Rice; Broken Dishes, a
sequence of
elegies by Michael Longley; Mark
Roper's The
Home Fire; and has a forthcoming
book, A United
Irishman, about William Drennan
and the politics
of 1798.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:58:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nico 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: AG Flick @ AnthologyFilmArchives
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
buon giorno,
Nancy-----
what'd you think
of it?
I went w/ a friend to "Scenes from
Allen's Last Three Days on Earth As a
Spirit" on
Saturday. (BTW-- thanks for posting the
info a few weeks ago.)
Overall, I found
it.... worth seeing. definitely. perhaps i was expecting
something
conventional, more structural. it kinda hit me all at once, and the
experience was a
strange one. of course, as Allen said, "Candor ends
paranoia."
along with the said candor, however, comes a shakey camera-hand,
and it took me a
little while to regain my eyesight after leaving the theater.
i suppose this is
the nature of BEAT.
...it didnt look
like Allen,..... people i know who have seen dead bodies have
said that
something truly is missing. life, i suppose. maybe it really is the
soul that IS us,
and if really does leave us after death, and then we are
nothing. (im not
big on rebirth, at least beyond the conceptual or
metaphorical, but
this thought just popped into my head.)
i thought the first
part, at Allen's
apartment, did a better job of capturing Mekas' overall point
and intention,
than did the last part (the recording at the Shambala center)
which i found
kinda dangling there on the edge of some cliff... perhaps if he
wanted to record
the memorial service, then i think a more efficient method of
film would have
worked better. afterall, it was the
human candor and uncut
sentiment
circulating the apartment that gave the 1st part its meaning. the
memorial was a
separate thing. it was an organized event, and could have
lended itself
nicely to an organized method of film.
so, .. sorry to
ramble so much. despite any
reservations, it was touching of
course. anyone
who loves Allen Ginsberg can see the merit in Jonas Mekas'
intention here.
thanks for letting us know about it!!
thinking of Allen,
--- Ginny Browne
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:21:14 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reply to message
from jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM of Sun, 08 Feb
>Erotica
anthlogies frequently reprint excerpts from "Memoirs of a Beatnick"
>and I agree
with Jym that DiPrima provides great fun.
>
>In one, a
short piece of erotica, in Maurice
Girodias' Olypia Press
>America (I think
I have that right), described sex with Jack Kerouac. There
>was a blurb
about Diprima--mentioned that she was born and raised in
>Brooklyn
emerged in the '50s...Sartre, Franz Kline, william de Kooning were
>mentioned and
there was a reference to her "brothers" Corso and Ginsberg.
>Said John
Keats, Pound, and Zen influenced her and that she lived in San
>Francisco
with her four children.
>
>j grant
>
from "women
of the beat generation":
In 1957, Diane
finally met Allen Ginsberg and his companions Jack Kerouac,
Peter Orlovsky,
and Gregory Corso in New York. This
meeting of mind and
body is most
famously depicted in her written-for-hire erotic
autobiography,
_Memoirs of a Beatnik_. In it, she
describes a Beat orgy
involving
Ginsberg, Kerouac, herself, & two others as being 'warm and
friendly and very
unsexy--like being in a bathtub with four other people.'
page 125
Just remember, in
the state of Ohio, an orgy is defined as four or more
people in bed
with no shoes. (or so I was told)
Diane.
--
"This is
Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack Kerouac
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:24:32 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reply to message
from DCardKJHS@AOL.COM of Sun, 08 Feb
>
>Some few
years ago, maybe 3 or 4, one of DiPrima's daughters hosted a Weekend
>morning
television series for teens. It was an
out and about in the Bay Area
>sort of
program dealing with the arts and, I think, a smattering of news. The
>daughter
seemed bright, witty, and generally talented.
Fred McDarrah has
>published
vintage 50's photos of Diane at readings and so forth in the
>Village,
can't remember if any were from North Beach.
there was an
article in the new york times magazine ??? (I can't remember
off the top of my
head) a while ago, I think early 90's, which had
interviews with
various children of the beats. One of
DiPrima's kids was
in the article,
& one of Lucien Carr's kids for certain.
if I come across
the article's
information (as in date & place) i'll post it.
Diane.
--
"This is
Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack
Kerouac
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:39:16 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: If Beat bores you,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reply to message
from jholland@ICLUB.ORG of Mon, 09 Feb
>If these same
"bored" listmembers actually had conversations with WSB,
>Kerouac, and
Ginsberg, they'd be even more bored - Kerouac's
>inquisitive,
probing mind covered vast territories of human thought,
>Ginsberg was
given to lofty and academic dissections of such things as
>William
Blake, and virtually everything from WSB's mouth was a lecture
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>in magick or
semantics or pataphysics or dialectics or history. Why do
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this true,
patricia? :)
Diane.
>these bored
listmembers even profess to be interested in Beat, anyway??
>Do they think
it's just some hippy-dippy deadhead
>take-drugs-and-hitchhike
kinda grooved-out loveburger bullshit?
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland
>kentucky
kentucky kentucky
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
--
"This is
Beat. Live your lives out? Naw, _love_ your lives out!"
--Jack
Kerouac
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:54:17 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> John
Hasbrouck wrote:
> >
> > This is
sophistry of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
> > defer
to your utter mastery of this great art.
>
> === Gosh,
thanky. But it also happens to be true : the frequencies of
> the emission
spectra of various objects' composition is what our eyes
> perceive as
"color", and the frequencies of our eyes are capable of
> detecting
are only a tiny fraction of the available wavelengths,
> so....oh,
forget it.
>
> You brought
the subject up anyway, not me. If ya can't stand the smell
> of
mothballs, get outta the attic.
>
> > As we
all know, it is
> >
impossible to win any argument with such an opponent, since the rules of
> > the
game are constantly changing. It is truly Alice in Wonderland.
> > However
great is the temptation to remain involved in the discussion,
> > one
must ultimately walk away if one is preserve one's humanity. (Yes,
> >
humanity.) I therefore concede complete defeat, my only regret being
> > that I
was once again drawn into this quagmire of doggeral.
>
> === Rules
constantly changing? Again, you have me confused with someone
> else. I
think I'm the only one around here whose rules *aren't*
> constantly
changing - I stand behind any statements I make (even the
> wrong ones)
and will again tomorrow. You, on the other hand, seem
> determined
to quibble at all costs, no matter where it leads us.
>
> For the
viewers at home : Note the technique by which the rationalist,
> frustrated
with attempts to hammer down everything precisely into the
> boxes he sees
fit, paints me as The Mad Hatter, even as he employs the
> very same
solipsism and sophistry he accuses *me* of. And haughtily and
>
sarcastically congratulates me when the kudos should go to *his* snack
> bowl. There
is a lovely piece of mind-fuck here, but it is not of my
> creation.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland,
kentucky
> off to bake
cookies
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mr. Holland,
Your continuous
dependency upon defensive rebuttles is giving me a
heartahce. You seem to be talking in circles, making no
sense of
anything. Start talking about the Beats again. Leave well enough
alone. And, tell me what you mean by
"rationalist". just curious.
best wishes in
your pursuit of peace
eric mayhew
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:58:41 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 06:26 PM
2/9/98 +0100, you wrote:
>John
Hasbrouck wrote:
>>
>> This is
sophistry of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
>> defer to
your utter mastery of this great art.
>
>=== Gosh,
thanky. But it also happens to be true : the frequencies of
>the emission
spectra of various objects' composition is what our eyes
>perceive as
"color", and the frequencies of our eyes are capable of
>detecting are
only a tiny fraction of the available wavelengths,
>so....oh,
forget it
So you are saying
500nM is the same as 700 nM? Or that
orange is blue?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:02:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ive said the same
thing before...
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, Julian Ruck wrote:
> Amen TkQ...
> i agree..i
didn't want to seem like an uneducated simpleton....but most
> of the stuff
that's posted i delete without reading...i just read the
> beginning
post and decide if it interests me....and let the others
> go....
>
> they can
bore me to tears...
>
> i don't mean
to offend you guys...i'm just being honest...
> -julian
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:07:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: AG Flick @ AnthologyFilmArchives
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ginny et al-
I enjoyed it too,
despite Jonas lack of adeptness with a camcorder (lots
and lots of
buttshots and Peter Orlovsky at a wierd angle...it reminded me
of the videos
from mine and my sisters bats miztvahs!) I wasnt sure what
to expect but I
thought it would be more professionally done. However,
Jonas probably
thought of this at the last minute, since Allen's death
seemed to creep
up all at once. At least, it did for me.
~Nancy
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:09:02 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey Jeff,
How about this,
tell me how rationalism connects to the Beat generation.
I didn't mean to
put you in a contradictory defensive position.
later tripper
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:14:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: DiPrima - Beat Skank
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sounds like
Pamela Des Barre....she wrote 'Im With The Band' about being a
rock groupie, she
slept with Mick Jagger or something...
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
> I posted to
poor Diane on the list some vicious comment about DiPrima when I
> meant to lay
it on the list...DiPrima has nothing special to say. Her only
> claim to
fame is having sex with prominent Beatmembers and writing about it.
> Jakc musta'
been drunk. Really....Jack Kerouac wrote about the joy of life
> and of
suffering ...and he was an original. Nothing like these wanna-Beat's
> who lay around
moaning about menstruation and pills. P of TKQ.
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:17:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: DiPrima - Beat Skank
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I posted to poor
Diane on the list some vicious comment about DiPrima when I
meant to lay it
on the list...DiPrima has nothing special to say. Her only
claim to fame is
having sex with prominent Beatmembers and writing about it.
Jakc musta' been
drunk. Really....Jack Kerouac wrote about the joy of life
and of suffering
...and he was an original. Nothing like these wanna-Beat's
who lay around
moaning about menstruation and pills. P of TKQ.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2002.0
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:26:17 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: If Beat bores you,
maybe you should join the Army or
something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jeff wrote:
>Do they think
it's just some hippy-dippy deadhead
>take-drugs-and-hitchhike
kinda grooved-out loveburger bullshit?
yeah !
not bullshit
though
and thank you,
too john hasbrouck for your marvellous comments:
_Philosophy is ordinary language used very
precisely._
- Mortimer J.
Adler
moritz
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:31:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: debbie flatbush
<gomorah@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Thanks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I 've been
reading the beat-L for a while, but I did'nt feel the need to
"say"
anything before now. I've really been enjoying the discourse- All
of it. Unless
you're in a university setting, a person rarely gets
exposure to such
passion, well-formulated or otherwise. I've learned a
lot, been amused,
and i've really been touched. I personally believe
that (My own
opinion only, of course) thats what the beats were about. I
know, there is a
lot more to it as well, but I do very much appreciate
the passion. Oh,
and I notice a couple of Lawrence
residents- Is there
anywhere that you
know of that I could see some of WSBs art? I missed
the exhibit at KU
last year.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:44:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
to add to
this...there exists nothing in Kerouac's archives about him ever
having something
to do with Diane DiPrima sexually. At the most he screwed
her out of sexual
desperation. Folks..well, next post maybe. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:45:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: AG Flick @ AnthologyFilmArchives
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I dont know.
You'd have to ask Jonas Mekas, I guess.
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, Marie Countryman wrote:
> living up
here in the vt wild, is there a chance in future to gain a copy of
> this?
> mc
>
> Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
> > Ginny
et al-
> > I
enjoyed it too, despite Jonas lack of adeptness with a camcorder (lots
> > and
lots of buttshots and Peter Orlovsky at a wierd angle...it reminded me
> > of the
videos from mine and my sisters bats miztvahs!) I wasnt sure what
> > to
expect but I thought it would be more professionally done. However,
> > Jonas
probably thought of this at the last minute, since Allen's death
> > seemed
to creep up all at once. At least, it did for me.
> > ~Nancy
> >
> >
********Had we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
> >
world.--Archimedes*********
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:00:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At the risk of
ponitificating this opinion upon you folks...there are those
out there who
know what I'm talking about so agree amongst yourselves or
voice in support.
These various figures cannot be claimed as true "writers"
who carried the
spirit of the Beat Generation. true there was a Beat
Generation which
carries forth into this day with the same freeloaders and
layabouts who
want to call themselves Beat but are really jobless and
without a
self-identity. I split Kerouac away from this garbage because he,
unlike the others
who profess to be part of this alleged generation,(which
was not really a
generation but instead, a crew of oppurtunists who rode
then and to this
day on the coattails of Kerouac).
Kerouac wrote. Day in and day out he wrote
and was therefore a writer. He
stands alone in
the history of American Literature as a writer of huge
proportions. Like
the writers of the Lost Generation he had genius and
talent. He would
have written had there not been a Beat Generation. What can
be said for all
the other mediocrities he had fostered from then till now?
They wrote
because they had to be encouraged. When they wrote in notebooks,
it was Kerouac
who typed up major portions of the manuscript and encouraged
their writing
(Burroughs) or showed them a style and they copied it forever
after (Ginsberg
who had always professed to be a mere imitator of Kerouac).
Would
Ferlinghetti be a known poet if he had not self-published his own
poetry? Now Im
not saying that none of the afore-mentioned writers aren't
talented
writers...just this, they all were supported in their chosen
careers by
Kerouac. They may be geniuses in their own right...but...well
Burroughs
literatire had floundered when he distanced himself from his
fellow Beats and
went on his own journey. Only his later post-cutup lit
could ever touch
the fire of Naked Lunch. Ginsberg's poetry thrived on his
past inventions
instead of trying to reinvent himself or just plain falling
for lame
shock-value tactics in his poetry (read "Come On Jack").
At least Kerouac
recognized this and stayed away. His mind was on his own
true vision of
the world and he continued to expound on it,though
unsuccessfully
with his savage bouts of drinking.
I'm just asking you all to really consider if
this was a generation at all
or...like the
followers of Picasso who adopted Abstract Cubism in their
repertoire of
works but could not continue after it because they did not
arrive their
themselves. This era was all about Jack and that is that. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:03:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: DiPrima - Beat Skank
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-09 18:00:32 EST, you write:
<< I posted
to poor Diane on the list some vicious comment about DiPrima when
I
meant to lay it on the list...DiPrima has
nothing special to say. Her only
claim to fame is having sex with prominent
Beatmembers and writing about it.
Jakc musta' been drunk. Really....Jack Kerouac
wrote about the joy of life
and of suffering ...and he was an original.
Nothing like these wanna-Beat's
who lay around moaning about menstruation and
pills. P of TKQ.
"We cannot well do without our sins; they
are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau >>
Well.... nothing
about DiPrima personally... obviously I think she has
something to say-
I was the one who originially asked for info! BUT--- I *do*
hate it so much
when "beat" poets start up w/ the name dropping. Especially
when the poems
are just lists of names: "Jack this, Allen this..." I can't
think of anything
specifically (although ruth weiss comes to mind) but it
really drives me
crazy. Anyway, thanks to everyone who answered me. If I find
anything good
I'll be sure to get back to y'all. :)
--Stephanie
loss of temper no problem
arrogance no problem
boxes of empty beer cans &
wine bottles no problem
thousands of styrofoam cups
no problem
Gregory Corso no problem
Allen Ginsberg no problem
Diane di Prima no problem
Anne Waldman's veins no
problem
"No Problem Party Poem"
--Diane DiPrima
Oh hey you guys--
check out all the buddies she's got in that one! (Sorry-
couldn't resist)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:10:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Well-said!
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
> At the risk
of ponitificating this opinion upon you folks...there are those
> out there
who know what I'm talking about so agree amongst yourselves or
> voice in
support. These various figures cannot be claimed as true "writers"
> who carried
the spirit of the Beat Generation. true there was a Beat
> Generation
which carries forth into this day with the same freeloaders and
> layabouts
who want to call themselves Beat but are really jobless and
> without a
self-identity. I split Kerouac away from this garbage because he,
> unlike the
others who profess to be part of this alleged generation,(which
> was not
really a generation but instead, a crew of oppurtunists who rode
> then and to
this day on the coattails of Kerouac).
> Kerouac wrote. Day in and day out he wrote
and was therefore a writer. He
> stands alone
in the history of American Literature as a writer of huge
> proportions.
Like the writers of the Lost Generation he had genius and
> talent. He
would have written had there not been a Beat Generation. What can
> be said for
all the other mediocrities he had fostered from then till now?
> They wrote
because they had to be encouraged. When they wrote in notebooks,
> it was
Kerouac who typed up major portions of the manuscript and encouraged
> their
writing (Burroughs) or showed them a style and they copied it forever
> after
(Ginsberg who had always professed to be a mere imitator of Kerouac).
> Would
Ferlinghetti be a known poet if he had not self-published his own
> poetry? Now
Im not saying that none of the afore-mentioned writers aren't
> talented
writers...just this, they all were supported in their chosen
> careers by
Kerouac. They may be geniuses in their own right...but...well
> Burroughs
literatire had floundered when he distanced himself from his
> fellow Beats
and went on his own journey. Only his later post-cutup lit
> could ever
touch the fire of Naked Lunch. Ginsberg's poetry thrived on his
> past
inventions instead of trying to reinvent himself or just plain falling
> for lame
shock-value tactics in his poetry (read "Come On Jack").
> At least
Kerouac recognized this and stayed away. His mind was on his own
> true vision
of the world and he continued to expound on it,though
>
unsuccessfully with his savage bouts of drinking.
> I'm just asking you all to really consider
if this was a generation at all
> or...like
the followers of Picasso who adopted Abstract Cubism in their
> repertoire
of works but could not continue after it because they did not
> arrive their
themselves. This era was all about Jack and that is that. P.
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:11:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
>
> At the risk
of ponitificating this opinion upon you folks...there are those
> out there
who know what I'm talking about so agree amongst yourselves or
> voice in
support. These various figures cannot be claimed as true "writers"
> who carried
the spirit of the Beat Generation. true there was a Beat
> Generation
which carries forth into this day with the same freeloaders and
> layabouts
who want to call themselves Beat but are really jobless and
> without a
self-identity. I split Kerouac away from this garbage because he,
> unlike the
others who profess to be part of this alleged generation,(which
> was not
really a generation but instead, a crew of oppurtunists who rode
> then and to
this day on the coattails of Kerouac).
> Kerouac wrote. Day in and day out he wrote
and was therefore a writer. He
> stands alone
in the history of American Literature as a writer of huge
> proportions.
Like the writers of the Lost Generation he had genius and
> talent. He
would have written had there not been a Beat Generation. What can
> be said for
all the other mediocrities he had fostered from then till now?
> They wrote
because they had to be encouraged. When they wrote in notebooks,
> it was
Kerouac who typed up major portions of the manuscript and encouraged
> their
writing (Burroughs) or showed them a style and they copied it forever
> after
(Ginsberg who had always professed to be a mere imitator of Kerouac).
> Would
Ferlinghetti be a known poet if he had not self-published his own
> poetry? Now
Im not saying that none of the afore-mentioned writers aren't
> talented
writers...just this, they all were supported in their chosen
> careers by
Kerouac. They may be geniuses in their own right...but...well
> Burroughs
literatire had floundered when he distanced himself from his
> fellow Beats
and went on his own journey. Only his later post-cutup lit
> could ever
touch the fire of Naked Lunch. Ginsberg's poetry thrived on his
> past
inventions instead of trying to reinvent himself or just plain falling
> for lame
shock-value tactics in his poetry (read "Come On Jack").
> At least
Kerouac recognized this and stayed away. His mind was on his own
> true vision
of the world and he continued to expound on it,though
>
unsuccessfully with his savage bouts of drinking.
> I'm just asking you all to really consider
if this was a generation at all
> or...like
the followers of Picasso who adopted Abstract Cubism in their
> repertoire
of works but could not continue after it because they did not
> arrive their
themselves. This era was all about Jack and that is that. P.
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
Its funny, i
always considered jack the least of the three, as a
writer, to me he wrote exciting prose that caught a
moment in time. I
thought that both
allen and william wrote past the current moment, they
delved deeper and
further into the ideas about life and about language
than jack did.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:20:34 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Velvet Underground
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ON 2/9/98 eric
mayhew WROTE:
>I love those
lyrics. VU and Nico has long been one of
my favorite
>albums. I always thought it was bleed for me, and not
plead for me. I
>am glad you
cleared that up for me.
I thought it was
"bleed for me" too until I visited the
excellent site,
_The Velvet Underground: Album by Album_
at
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ehansen/VU/
But this site
could be "wrong".
The lyrics for
"Venus In Furs" are at:
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ehansen/VU/nicoly.html#venus
I've copied the
text below as it appears the above
referenced site.
---------------
Venus In Furs
by Lou Reed
Shiny, shiny,
shiny boots of leather
Whiplash
girlchild in the dark
Comes in bells,
your servant, don't forsake him
Strike, dear
mistress, and cure his heart
Downy sins of
streetlight fancies
Chase the costumes
she shall wear
Ermine furs adorn
the imperious
Severin, Severin
awaits you there
I am tired, I am
weary
I could sleep for
a thousand years
A thousand dreams
that would awake me
Different colors
made of tears
Kiss the boot of
shiny, shiny leather
Shiny leather in
the dark
Tongue of thongs,
the belt that does await you
Strike, dear
mistress, and cure his heart
Severin, Severin,
speak so slightly
Severin, down on
your bended knee
Taste the whip,
in love not given lightly
Taste the whip,
now plead for me
I am tired, I am
weary
I could sleep for
a thousand years
A thousand dreams
that would awake me
Different colors
made of tears
Shiny, shiny,
shiny boots of leather
Whiplash
girlchild in the dark
Severin, your
servant comes in bells, please don't forsake him
Strike, dear
mistress, and cure his heart
--------end of
lyrics-----------------
>what do these
lyrics mean to you?
My life work is
to explore this question.
The idea of
submission.
Severin =
Severance
et cetera
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Gregory
Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/ <<< Bulldog Breath >>>
"I am not
looking for a master; I am looking
for the books. In
dreams I sometimes find the
books where it is
written and I may bring back
a few phrases
that unwind like a scroll. Then
I write as fast
as I can type, because I am
reading, not
writing."
-- William S. Burroughs
>From
"The Retreat Diaries" in
_The Burroughs
File_, (San Francisco:
City Lights
Books, 1984), p. 190.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:41:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maybe thats
because Jack died first...before he had the chance to become
what AG and WSB
became..
<<snip>>
> Its funny, i
always considered jack the least of the three, as a
> writer, to me he wrote exciting prose that caught a
moment in time. I
> thought that
both allen and william wrote past the current moment, they
> delved deeper
and further into the ideas about life and about language
> than jack
did.
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:50:45 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Velvet Underground
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> UNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORK
>
> Gregory
Severance || morocco@walrus.com
>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/ <<<BULLDOG BREATH>>>
>
>
"Severin, Severin, speak so slightly
> Severin,
down on your bended knee
> Taste the
whip, in love not given lightly
> Taste the
whip, now plead for me"
>
> from
"Venus in Furs" by Lou Reed
> on the album
_The Velvet Underground and Nico_ (1967)
>
>
UNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORK
Gregory,
I love those
lyrics. VU and Nico has long been one of
my favorite
albums. I always thought it was bleed for me, and not
plead for me. I
am glad you
cleared that up for me.
what do these
lyrics mean to you?
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:08:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Skank
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 06:59 PM
2/9/98 +0000, you wrote:
>whatever your
thoughts are on diPrima, paul, i find your need to express your
>thoughts
through such derogatory and loathesome word choices.
>and no, i'm
not ms manners or emily post. just offended by putdowns in such
>guttersnipe
language.
>there were
many men connected and central to beats who slept and told, but no
>man leaps to
calling them skanks.
>just my
thoughts.
>see that
you're still here swinging.
>so where in
the cosmos did you fling your web site so that we unworthies cannot
>access it?
>mc
>Ginsberg is a
skank too...how's that? I do not differentiate betwen men and
women believe
me...she had awful poetry and is deserving of "guttersnipe"
criticism...that
was her way. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:14:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>You have an
interesting opinion here and an interesting way of
>articulating
it. However, I don't agree.
>
>I'll take
that as a compliemnt..The Kerouac Quarterly page is being
improved upon. I
find the page it is currently on is too limited for my
scope of ideas. I
placed a lame cartoon there for those who are interested
in my other
meager talents. I will notify subscribers of the quarterly where
it can be found.
the third issue of The Kerouac Quarterly is going to the
printer next
week. This will feature an essay by Columbia University Kerouac
scholar, Ann
Douglas as well as other essays and other odds and ends. Those
who want it just
notify me. Have to go edit some pieces now, goodnight. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Emc.Fedex.Com:
020998:1
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:26:09 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Zarubnicky
<dmzarubnicky@FEDEX.COM>
Subject: THE DEAD/BEATS
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Deadhead +
Beatfreak = Deadbeat(freak)
And you can
certainly count me in that group.
John is
correct. The most direct connection
between the Dead and
the Beats is
through Neal.
Also, didn't
Allen and Gary Snyder perform at the 1st "Be-in" in
San Francisco's
Golden Gate Park? And didn't the Dead
play?
What year? '67 or
'68 is my guess....
Does anyone know
Jack's opinion of the Dead? Any quotes
from him
regarding Jerry
and the band? Can't imagine he liked
them but I can't
recall reading
anything regarding them...
ONE LAST DEAD
QUESTION....Anyone know anything more about this
"Dead"
amusement park "Terrapin Station" that is in the planning stages?
I originally
thought it was a prankster type joke, but I hear from
sources close to
Grateful Dead Merchandising it's actually a go...
Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:30:05 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: THE DEAD/BEATS
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dawn Zarubnicky
wrote:
>
> Deadhead +
Beatfreak = Deadbeat(freak)
>
> And you can
certainly count me in that group.
>
> John is
correct. The most direct connection
between the Dead and
> the Beats is
through Neal.
>
> Also, didn't
Allen and Gary Snyder perform at the 1st "Be-in" in
> San
Francisco's Golden Gate Park? And didn't
the Dead play?
> What year?
'67 or '68 is my guess....
>
> Does anyone
know Jack's opinion of the Dead? Any
quotes from him
> regarding
Jerry and the band? Can't imagine he
liked them but I can't
> recall
reading anything regarding them...
>
> ONE LAST
DEAD QUESTION....Anyone know anything more about this
>
"Dead" amusement park "Terrapin Station" that is in the
planning stages?
> I originally
thought it was a prankster type joke, but I hear from
> sources
close to Grateful Dead Merchandising it's actually a go...
>
> Dawn
Dawn, you can
find out about the amusement park on the official Greatful
Dead web
page. I don't recall the exact address,
but it should be easy
to find. "Terrapin Station" sounds like it
will be something quite
interesting to
anyone who enjoys the band, like myself.
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:55:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Ginsberg & Poe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Much has been
said about Allen Ginsberg's debt to Whitman and Blake.
AG's Collected
Poems, however, have more than a few references to E.A.
Poe. To what extent did Poe influence
Ginsberg? Did Poe's work or
Poe's life have a
greater influence on Ginsberg's sensibility?
Can we
identify any
specific connections between Poe's writings (poems or
prose) and
Ginsberg's work? (Enough petty
bickering. Let's see if we
can start a
constructive thread.)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:23:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: THE DEAD/BEATS
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> > Also,
didn't Allen and Gary Snyder perform at the 1st "Be-in" in
> > San
Francisco's Golden Gate Park? And didn't
the Dead play?
> > What
year? '67 or '68 is my guess....
Ginsberg and
Snyder did perform, also Michael McClure and
Lenore Kandel ...
Jan '67 I think.
> > Does
anyone know Jack's opinion of the Dead?
Any quotes from him
> >
regarding Jerry and the band? Can't
imagine he liked them but I can't
> > recall
reading anything regarding them...
I don't know any
facts about this but I doubt he'd ever heard their music.
I've always
imagined he would have hated their 60's image, but I think
he would have
liked songs like "Uncle John's Band" and "Cumberland
Blues" and
"Ripple". But who knows? Maybe he would have hated
the whole
Workingman's Dead album, and his favorite would be "Aiko
Aiko". Stranger things have happened.
> > ONE
LAST DEAD QUESTION....Anyone know anything more about this
> >
"Dead" amusement park "Terrapin Station" that is in the
planning stages?
> > I
originally thought it was a prankster type joke, but I hear from
> > sources
close to Grateful Dead Merchandising it's actually a go...
Phil Lesh is
behind it, and it's definitely happening.
I sure
hope it turns out
to be more than an amusement park though.
I
think it's more
like a home for Dead culture and a place to buy
soundboard tapes
and stuffed animal dancing bears. And
I'm pretty
sure Jack Kerouac
would not have liked dancing bears ... but
who knows?
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com |
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:58:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nico 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Velvet Underground (feel free to
delete)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-09 19:59:47 EST, you write:
> I always thought it was bleed for me, and not
plead for me.
me too...
gregory, where'd
you hear otherwise?
-- Ginny (a.k.a.
NICO 88)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:58:51 -0500
Reply-To: Alex Howard <kh14586@acs.appstate.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg & Poe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This is from the
producer's notes to "Closed on Account of Rabies: Poems
and Tales of
Edgar Allen Poe by Hal Wilner of Mouth Almighty:
"Everything leads to Poe."
Allen Ginsberg was cooking me one of
his trademark meals just last
February when he
made this remark, referring to the album then in
production. It was a typically insightful thing for
Ginsberg to say, but
I wasn't really
paying strict attention. The certain
knowledge that a
never-ending
parade of macrobiotic food was about to
pass before my face
- food I couldn't
refuse - was distracting me. The plan
was when Allen's
back was turned I
would drown the food in soy sauce to make it bearable.
The basic TASTE
of that food makes me crazy. I admit
that I always felt
great after
eating that crap, but...
"Everything leads to Poe,"
Allen repeated, blissfully unaware of
my eating
plans. "That's what the liner notes
should be. You can trace
all literary art
to Poe's influence: Burroughs,
Baudelaire, Genet,
Dylan..." The list went on. "It all leads back to Poe."
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:18:47 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul,
I for one will
miss the intellectuall incandensence of your masturbatory
fantasies--sorry
we don't measure up to the exalted IQ level required for
Kerouac
Quarterly--oh well
James
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
> You guys
(meaning those who most frequently post their tirades, opinions,
>
academicisms, etc.) have done the impossible.You have turned Beat Literature
> in general
and Jack Kerouac in particular into a dull subject. No mean to be
> offended but
this is the dullest discussion group. What a bunck of f*****g
> bores! I
have pulled my web page to put it out of the reach of you extermely
> monotonous
wanna-Beats! I mean, I might not be the most exciting participant
> but face
it...I cannot possibly be as boring and one-dimenasional as some of
> you folks.
Those of you who really want the next issue of TKQ notify me
> privately.
You others..feel free to write your incurious determinations to
> each other.
I find it most wearying having to delete 90% of the posts that
> appear in my
mailbox. P.
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:21:42 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To quote someone
a few months ago, who should know, Neil died of too high
RPM, too much of
alot. Most of it all good stuff. Rest in peace, who
cares, Neill died
for your sins. That about sums it
up--and now a generation
of suburbanite
wanna be's can disect it.
James Stauffer
Mary Maconnell
wrote:
> Okay..while
we are on the subject of death I'll ask a potentially stupid
> question (of
which I haven't been able to find the answer for thus far):
> How did Neal
Cassady die? Someone told me a tale of
alcohol and/or drugs
> and railroad
tracks. Ick. Anyone know for sure? Thanks.
:)
>
> Mary
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:26:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Don't worry
Pat, I am still hear to be the list curmudgeon if it is
>
required. You won';t have to bear the
burden youself.
JamesPatricia
wrote
> = I fear Paul's exit will leave me as the
grumpiest old
> fart on the
l
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:31:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "POMES, PENNY EACH."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Ed Abbey
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ed Abbey may not
be Beat but his writing can't be beat (sorry). Check out his
book of poems,
EARTH APPLES, very good.
Dave B.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:33:05 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs & Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Alex Howard
wrote:
>
> Interesting
note tonight as I was flipping through the channels and came
> across david
Bowie performing on E! During "I'm
Afraid of Americans" on
> the screen
behind him which kept showing various images of the flag and
> our
contiguous U.S. flashed Old Bull himself, reading, superimposed over
> the
billowing flag. I didn't know Bowie was
a fan, but I'm not surprised.
>
> ------------------
> Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
P.O. Box 12149
>
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586
Boone, NC 28608
eerie!
i was just going
to ask you all about the burroughs-bowie relationship,
as i only know a
little about it. was 'the man who sold the world'
dedicated to him?
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Envelope-to:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
X-VMS-To:
IN%"BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:36:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Don't mean to
drag a subject on but I *did* look up a website which dealt
with Neal
specifically. Interesting that Neal died
before Jack did -- I
wonder if Jack
intentionally
thought the world was at an end because Neal
died...that's
always been a curiousity to me.
So (sigh) ... I'm
going to see "Kerouac" again in Seattle this coming
weekend. It's different every time. :)
Take care, all.
Mary
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:53:37 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
Subject: Re: if beat bores you
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> Subject:
> If Beat bores you, maybe you should
join the Army or something.
> Date:
> Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:32:07 +0100
> From:
> Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
>
>
> Anyone who
is bored with the threads being discussed here is free to
> delete them
and/or go away. Or start your own discussion with someone on
> your own
reading level.
>
> I think most
of the threads here are boring too, but for the totally
> *opposite*
reasons......I don't think the level of conversation here is
> intelligent
ENOUGH, yet these people seem to want everything to be
> dumbed down
even more.
cathy writes:
Not 'dumbed
down' --maybe just try to reach an
audience that perhaps
never made it to
college? Maybe, in addition to the 'big'
words, try to
write in words
that people can understand????? Why do
you exclude
people who are
obviously interested in beat lit, but just can't use the
fancy words like
you can???That is a very snobbish, elite attitude to
have. Why do you think people get discouraged from
learning??? BECAUSE
of attitudes like
this, because of people who say" if you can't talk as
intelligently as
us, you should leave, because you'll NEVER be able to
understand us."
Give the people
who aren't up to your IQ level a chance, for god's sake!
Some of us are
here to learn, perhaps some of us LOOK UP to the people
who can use the
big words, and would like to be like them.
Perhaps if
you got off of
the high horse you are on, you would look at this as an
opportunity to
spread knowledge, to TEACH.....Don't withhold knowledge
just because
someone might not immediately know what "aleotory' means.
I offer
you--exhibit one: my attempt at figuring
out what someone is
trying to say by
looking up words in the dictionary ( definitions are in
all caps.)
> >
> > In a
message dated 2/7/98 3:05:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> >
nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA writes:
>
> > > As
for approaches to the Wake vs. the Nova trilogy, the exegetical
(INTERPRETATION) bent of
> >
> Joycean scholars wouldn't hold up
with Burroughs. You can't be some kind
> >
> of hermeneutical(INTERPRETIVE)
detective with Burroughs-- it would be
fruitless-- since
> >
> the aleatory(OF OR DEPENDING ON
CHANCE,LUCK,OR CONTINGENCY) syntactic(OF
OR IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES OF SYNTAX)
structures of Burroughs' cut-up
writing are
> >
> introduced to implicitly(WITHOUT
RESERVATION OR DOUBT) prevent the
possibility of explication.(CLEARLY EXPLAINING
SOMETHING OBSCURE OR
IMPLIED)....
>
>
>
>
cathy writes:
HUNH?????????I
now ask for further clarification as this just seems to
be a bunch of
double talk to me.....
could this mean
the same as "Burroughs wrote what he did because he
didn't want
anyone to figure out what he was writing about????"
JEff:>
> If these
same "bored" listmembers actually had conversations with WSB,
> Kerouac, and
Ginsberg, they'd be even more bored - Kerouac's
> inquisitive,
probing mind covered vast territories of human thought,
> Ginsberg was
given to lofty and academic dissections of such things as
> William
Blake, and virtually everything from WSB's mouth was a lecture
> in magick or
semantics or pataphysics or dialectics or history. Why do
> these bored
listmembers even profess to be interested in Beat, anyway??
> Do they
think it's just some hippy-dippy deadhead
>
take-drugs-and-hitchhike kinda grooved-out loveburger bullshit?
cathy:
HEre, i must
disagree--I believe that Burroughs, Kerouac, and Ginsberg,
would still have
been talking the big words, but explaining them as they
went along to a
person who wasn't up to their intellectual/academic
levels. Go ahead, use the big words. JUst please more clearly define,
repeat yourself
in different ways so those of us who haven't had 25
years of english
classes can understand.
My significant
other has explained laws of physics and quantum theory to
me in language I
can understand. He dosen't mind doing
it. In fact he
is flattered that
I want to learn something he knows about.
I also believe
the beats were more than academicians, it wasn't all
lectures on
majick or semantics or pataphysics or dialectics or
history. YOu don't have to be interested in those
things to be
interested in the
beat generation. All you have to be
interested in is
life.
cathy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:58:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
According to
their most recent catalog, Penguin Books will be releasing
_Memoirs of a
Beatnik_ next month.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, Bill Gargan wrote:
> Several
collections of DiPrima's poems remain in print.
Waterrow Books or
City
> Lights should have them available. Also, be on the lookout for DiPrima's
fort
> hcoming
autobiography which should be released later this year.
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:17:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: If Beat bores you,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> > >If
these same "bored" listmembers actually had conversations with WSB,
> >
>Kerouac, and Ginsberg, they'd be even more bored - Kerouac's
> >
>inquisitive, probing mind covered vast territories of human thought,
> >
>Ginsberg was given to lofty and academic dissections of such things as
> >
>William Blake, and virtually everything from WSB's mouth was a lecture
> > >in
magick or semantics or pataphysics or dialectics or history. Why do
>
> Well, I had
many conversations with William and only a few with Allen.
> I certainly
am stunned to hear Williams conversational style described
> as as
lecture. I almost never experienced
that. With me william
> prefered to
either tell a story, or to hear one told.
but to be frank
> whoever had
this experiance with william may be simply relating what
> happened
when they conversed with william.
William had a incredibly
> wide variety
of friends and relationships. i wasn't
in on very many
> boring ones
but i am interested in magic and language and how language
> works on
us, So I just might not of been
bored. i admit that sometimes
> william
would go on and over the same "bit"
he worked things up and
> around. I remember he explained a lot of culinary business to me. He
> knew I loved
to cook and seemed to save food info for me.
He told me
> about 10
times how you could really tell if fish was fresh. I also got
> the most
wonderful lesson one day on caviar. We
bonded on that one.
> this was
over a 4 or 5 year period. Since I only trusted fish if i
> caught it
(Kansas will do this to one) the information about fresh fish
> was of
limited use. I am smart but not a
typical intellect. William
> and i shared
a terrible love for what i call bad books. These are cheap
> books of
first hand accounts of adventure or biographies of different
> types (god
we went through a long period of accounts of doctors and
> surgeons
gone bad) i loved those. I also learned an incredible amount
> about cats,
lemurs, and read all these spy books. I notice i don't read
> the spy
books so i might of enjoyed reading those just to talk about
> them to
william. I am currently trying to convince my cat sue that i am
> the alpha
cat. I do love cats. so maybe i wasn't
the type of person
> that got
lectured to. I think that I would say if
william was tired or
> put upon by
fools he would get a little less graceous.
God he tolerated
> loads of
crap from me. I know that what he wrote is more important than
> his
conversational style. I would quess he used a lot of the
>
conversations on the same subjects to work out things he was writing
> on. I know for a fact he did this when he worked
on the preface to
> queer he
wrote. It was sometimes hard to know him
and to talk to him
> around then
as it was depressing for him and put him in a black mood.
> But boring,
no, not for me.
> patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:46:09 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ed Abbey
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
POMES, PENNY
EACH. wrote:
>
> Ed Abbey may
not be Beat but his writing can't be beat (sorry). Check out his
> book of
poems, EARTH APPLES, very good.
>
> Dave B.
Dave, I think
Edward Abbey's book Desert Solitaire is in some respects
what I would
consider to be Beat generated. It has
some qualities, but
also differs in
some way. Anyway my point is that Abbey
is awesome, and
should be read by
everyone.
peace
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:45:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:41 PM
2/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 11:14 PM
2/7/98 EST, Aeronwy Thomas wrote:
>>wait, why
did one person say that he dies because of hemmoraghing esophageal
>>varices"
and another one say he died of a heart attack while drinking
beer and
>>yet
another say that he died from cirrohosis? clear this up, please?
>
>hemmoraghing esophageal
varices is the real deal
>
>Mike
>
>What is
it? It sounds like bimbo eruptions or
that
Alan Greenspan
quote about some kind of exuberance.
It sounds like
heartburn with a fatal cant to it.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:59:05 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: tales of death and alcohol
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ok. one more
time. jack had severe cirrhosis of the liver, which could no longer
process any
thing, esp alcohol, when this happens, people hemorrhage copiously
most through the
esophagus. so while the actual cause of death was bleeding to
death, the liver
and alcohol is what did him in.
when i worked as
therapist at a substance abuse clinic many folks there died of
the same thing..
also, in the end,
jack was probably under the influence of many brain storms
caused by poisons
that liver could not process, which then attacks brain, and
leads to dementia
in the worst case, severe changes in personality and thought
patterns in the
least.
mc
mike rice wrote:
> At 07:41 PM
2/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >At 11:14
PM 2/7/98 EST, Aeronwy Thomas wrote:
>
>>wait, why did one person say that he dies because of hemmoraghing
esophageal
>
>>varices" and another one say he died of a heart attack while
drinking
> beer and
> >>yet
another say that he died from cirrohosis? clear this up, please?
> >
>
>hemmoraghing esophageal varices is the real deal
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >What is
it? It sounds like bimbo eruptions or
that
> Alan
Greenspan quote about some kind of exuberance.
> It sounds
like heartburn with a fatal cant to it.
>
> Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:02:38 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
gee, paul, i
guess you count right along here with us simpletons, as 90% of yr
postings are
bitching, snide, selfpitying, and outrageous
name calling and
slander
i think yr glass
house is under attack for good reasons.
ok bill, this is
my last group posting on or to mr m.
mc
mike rice wrote:
> At 12:31 PM
2/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >You guys
(meaning those who most frequently post their tirades, opinions,
>
>academicisms, etc.) have done the impossible.You have turned Beat
Literature
> >in
general and Jack Kerouac in particular into a dull subject. No mean to be
> >offended
but this is the dullest discussion group. What a bunck of f*****g
> >bores! I
have pulled my web page to put it out of the reach of you extermely
>
>monotonous wanna-Beats! I mean, I might not be the most exciting
participant
> >but face
it...I cannot possibly be as boring and one-dimenasional as some of
> >you
folks. Those of you who really want the next issue of TKQ notify me
>
>privately. You others..feel free to write your incurious determinations to
> >each
other. I find it most wearying having to delete 90% of the posts that
> >appear
in my mailbox. P.
> >"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> >
Henry David Thoreau
> >
> >If you
think this is bad, try the Patti Smyth idolators on the Babel
> list. Half of them sit around writing letters about
her boring records
> and public
appearances. I get it in digest form and
often erase the
> rest of it,
after reading two or three posts. A lot
of these writers
> are just
record collectors, not the least critical of Smith. I hate
> the kind of
showbiz that reduces fans to this level, but I find on
> the Babel
list, many of these schmoes are doing it to themselves.
>
> Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:06:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 12:31 PM
2/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>You guys
(meaning those who most frequently post their tirades, opinions,
>academicisms,
etc.) have done the impossible.You have turned Beat Literature
>in general
and Jack Kerouac in particular into a dull subject. No mean to be
>offended but
this is the dullest discussion group. What a bunck of f*****g
>bores! I have
pulled my web page to put it out of the reach of you extermely
>monotonous
wanna-Beats! I mean, I might not be the most exciting participant
>but face
it...I cannot possibly be as boring and one-dimenasional as some of
>you folks.
Those of you who really want the next issue of TKQ notify me
>privately.
You others..feel free to write your incurious determinations to
>each other. I
find it most wearying having to delete 90% of the posts that
>appear in my
mailbox. P.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>If you think
this is bad, try the Patti Smyth idolators on the Babel
list. Half of them sit around writing letters about
her boring records
and public
appearances. I get it in digest form and
often erase the
rest of it, after
reading two or three posts. A lot of
these writers
are just record
collectors, not the least critical of Smith.
I hate
the kind of
showbiz that reduces fans to this level, but I find on
the Babel list,
many of these schmoes are doing it to themselves.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:14:24 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: ooops!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
dave's jpeg was
sent to me, not to list.
however picture
of james me sherri tokin with jack's face in window of
city lights on JK
alley (dead end-some poetic justice there) on her
birthday.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:15:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 09:40 AM
2/9/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Okay..while
we are on the subject of death I'll ask a potentially stupid
>question (of
which I haven't been able to find the answer for thus far):
>How did Neal
Cassady die? Someone told me a tale of
alcohol and/or drugs
>and railroad
tracks. Ick. Anyone know for sure? Thanks.
:)
>
>Mary
>
>Sure, its in
the Electric KoolAid Acid Test. He froze
to death in Southern
Mexico along a
railroad line, after being zonked on speed overnight. Yes,
froze to death in
SOUTHERN California.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:58:13 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: dumbed down? (was:if beat bores you)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Cathy Wilkie
wrote:
> Not 'dumbed
down' --maybe just try to reach an
audience that perhaps
> never made
it to college? Maybe, in addition to the
'big' words, try to
> write in
words that people can understand?????
=== Again, I
write what I write. In the manner I am accustomed to. I am
not obligated to
choose my words so as to have mass appeal, nor is it
worth the
trouble. If you don't understand, ask. But I'm not going to
alter my own mode
of speech for someone else. Sorry.
> Why do you
exclude
> people who
are obviously interested in beat lit, but just can't use the
> fancy words
like you can???
=== I honestly
don't think I use fancy words. I don't. This is just the
way I talk. But it's all relative I guess. Sorry if you
feel excluded.
I can't do
anything about that.
> Perhaps if
> you got off
of the high horse you are on, you would look at this as an
> opportunity
to spread knowledge, to TEACH.....Don't withhold knowledge
> just because
someone might not immediately know what "aleotory' means.
=== I think
you're confused - I said *I* was the one who didn't know
what 'aleatory'
meant - I said *I* was the one who had to look it up in
the dictionary!!
*I* didn't know what it meant.
Why am I on a
high horse? Do you really think that people only use big
words to make
others feel inadequate?? Get over it - I really talk like
this. And I'm not
changing the way I talk.
I'm not here to
be understood by all - I throw out my opinion from time
to time and if
someone gets it, fine, and if they don't, it isn't my
problem. I'm not
a teacher, and have no inclination to be one.
> JUst please
more clearly define,
> repeat
yourself in different ways so those of us who haven't had 25
> years of
english classes can understand.
=== For the
umpteenth time, I have only a high school education. I was
only in college
for a total of four of five days before I dropped out.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, KY
tired of
repeating himself
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:11:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Buncha' bores!
Comments: To:
jhasbro@tezcat.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"Bill
Clinton was just like the boys that used to drive
down King Street
in pink convertibles, catcalling about
our breasts. We were told to stay away from those boys,
that they were
trash. But we always had crushes on them.
We wanted them to
come up to us, twist our nipples, and
fish their hands
down our panties. They were smooth
operators and
they lied. Even today I have fantasies.
If a Bill Clinton
smiled at me, I would have my head
burrowed into his
scrotum in an instant."
Lucianne
Goldberg, Linda Tripp literary representative,
in the New Yorker
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:56:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg & Poe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 09:55 PM
2/9/98 EST, you wrote:
>Much has been
said about Allen Ginsberg's debt to Whitman and Blake.
>AG's
Collected Poems, however, have more than a few references to E.A.
>Poe. To what extent did Poe influence Ginsberg? Did Poe's work or
>Poe's life
have a greater influence on Ginsberg's sensibility? Can we
>identify any
specific connections between Poe's writings (poems or
>prose) and
Ginsberg's work? (Enough petty
bickering. Let's see if we
>can start a constructive
thread.)
>
ginsberg told a
few people in Lowell at a tavern that with the Beats "it all
begins with
Poe." "He was the first to make us paranoid." "He woke us
from
our dogmatic
slumber..." So there you go. Paul...
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:28:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Huckabee
<HUCKADT.RADONC@SHANDS.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hello? -Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Actually, not
that anything said here was wrong, but from my
understanding,
the degradation of the esophagus and the cirrhosis of
the liver are not
necessarilly inter-related. The esophagus is usually
what kills most
chronic alcoholics, since the liver is a much more
resilient organ.
Probably, most of JK's internal systems were in pretty
bad shape by the
time he died, so it was just a matter of time to see
which went first.
Guess the GI tract lost.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:20:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg & Poe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have to agree
with Diane. It is the visonary and
mystical aspects of Poe's w
ork that would
appeal to Ginsberg. I also think the
tragic and romantic image
of Poe that was
presented to most of us in the 1950s would have attracted Allen
, particularly
when considered again after having read Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Bla
ke and various
Gnostic texts. Poe would have appealed
to Allen as someone who
epitomized
Blake's dictum: "The road to excess leads to the palace of wisdom."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:37:52 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jo grant wrote:
> At the risk
of starting another war, one of the best examples of a writer
> with great promise,
treated like crap by most of the Beats,( including her
> Godfather
AG) and the Beat affecianadoes was Jan Kerouac.
=== Yes
indeedy.....Ginsberg's treatment of her was appalling. I don't
understand
it. Does anyone know why he had such a
bad attitude about
her? I know she was hard to deal with sometimes,
but that's no reason
for the betrayal
and thievery that she experienced. And when are her
writings ever
going to be back in print again??
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott H
feral human of ky
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:56:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Huckabee
<HUCKADT.RADONC@SHANDS.UFL.EDU>
Subject: tales of death and alcohol -Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
agreed
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:11:26 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Neil,
Ya know, I sent
Jeffrey Holland a private, civil message late yesterday
afternoon in
which I tried to establish some common philosophical
ground. I even
signed it _in good faith,_. He didn't get back to me. I
guess he doesn't
want to discuss philosophy with me.
This is of course
between you and me.
-John
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:21:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Mon, 9 Feb
1998, John Hasbrouck wrote:
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
> >
> > And
yes, there *is* a Zen Buddhist way to say that Black is White, and
> > that
"lesser" arguments are the better. I do not invoke the Zen Buddhist
> > way,
however; I am almost always being quite literal.
> >
> Of course
any discussion of Zen only clouds the mind.
>
> > Black
and White are both myths created by our primitive sensory
> >
abilities, by the way.
> >
> This is
sophistry of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
> defer to
your utter mastery of this great art. As we all know, it is
> impossible
to win any argument with such an opponent, since the rules of
> the game are
constantly changing.
Actually John,
Jeffrey is right, in a way. "Black" and "White" as colour
terms in English
are just the extremes of the spectrum, their significance
has been
culturally determined. For two interesting studies on the
development of
colour terms in language, see Brent Berlin and Paul Kay,
_Basic Color
Terms: Their Universality and Evolution_ (Berkeley:
University of
California Press, 1969) and Paul Kay and Chad McDaniel, "The
Linguistic
Significance of the Meanings of Basic Color Terms," _Language_,
54 (1978) 610-46.
There's lots of
fascinating stuff about basic colour terms cross language
barriers, and
there's actually a grammar that generates the system of all
basic colour
terms for any language according to the number of basic
colour terms in
it.
Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:12:52 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: why is the three important, poor
ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> If anyone
thinks that one should ignore such attacks
> that have no
substance but "their imho" then we might as well let racial
> epitaths,
jewish remarks, impotency jokes, and neonazi sympathies work
> as commerce
instead of thought and reason.
=== And well we
should. America is supposed to be a free country, you
know, including
the freedom to have bad opinions. And the Internet is
even freer.
I'm not defending
Paul's position, mind you, or neonazi sympathies
either. But I am
defending people's right to "their imho", no matter how
putrid, hateful,
evil, malignant, or retarded.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeff Holland,
Kentucky
diggin' on
Langston Hughes
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:29:44 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Hasbrouck
wrote:
>
> I even
signed it _in good faith,_. He didn't get back to me. I
> guess he
doesn't want to discuss philosophy with me.
=== Bingo. Not
after the wanna-be-Perry Mason grilling I'd already
yawned my way
through, "so, Mr.Holland, please enlighten me...", blah
blah blah,
posture posture pose.
Besides, I had
already said my final words on the matter, I repeat them
here now :
"anything else I say at this point would only be
a restatement of
what I have already said. If ya still don't get what
I'm sayin', I
don't know any other way of puttin' it."
If ya don't wanna
wade in my - what was the phrase you used? - "quagmire
of
doggerel", then why come back for another heapin' helpin'?
>
> This is of
course between you and me.
=== *ROTFLMAO*
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
That Jeffrey
Holland,
Nowheresville and
groovin' on it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
To:
mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Velvet Underground
Cc:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bcc:
morocco@walrus.com
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DFA465.4BB0@sonoma.edu>
References:
<199802100033.TAA29889@ecsmtp.twi.com>
>what do these
lyrics mean to you?
.
eat!
)
(
)
TV (black
& white)
& a smile (campbell)
()
a T-shirt (micky mouse)
micky mouse (T-shirt)
( andy warhol (Andrew Warhola) )
( )
eat!
guitars (1)
lift the ring to can edge
(TV)
drum (2)
pull up ring pushing with thumb
( )
eat
barley &
vegetables soup
()
eat!
.
021098
RSARLD50B26
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:44:09 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Tue, 10
Feb 1998 19:32:20...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:32:20 +0100 with subject "Re: Velvet
Underground" has been
successfully distributed to
the BEAT-L list (253
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:53:31 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Langston Hughes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
two Langston
Hughes pomes I'm gonna force on the assembled crowd:
=-=-=-=-=-=
"Fired"
Awake all night
with loving
The bright day
caught me
Unawares --
asleep.
"Late to
work again",
The boss man
said.
"You're
fired!"
So I went on back
to bed --
and dreamed the
sweetest dream
With Caledonia's
arm
Beneath my head.
=-=-=-=-=-=
"Midnight
Dancer"
Wine-maiden
Of the jazz-tuned
night,
Lips
Sweet as purple
dew,
Breasts
Like the pillows
of all sweet dreams
Who crushed
The grapes of joy
And dripped their
juice
On you?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
thrilled to have
spoken
to Okie Jones on
the
phone the other
night
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:51:46 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: why is the three important, poor
ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
yo, sista pat;
i've slugged it
out in seminars, with internet meetings with the well
gods(barlow,
silberman, gans, etc), with just about any other guy that i've
had an interest
or a disagreement with
this 'poor
ladies' crapola is just that. hang in there with me.
i am who i am,
gender is never a wall to me.
marie
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> I didn't
disparage jack, he isn't my favorite but i would be misstating
> if I didn't
say that i believe some sort of magic
was involved in those
> three being
friends and all coming to write as they did. Each different
> yet some
common bell rang. I agree with who ever
said that the women of
> the beats
are underesteemed. i have been a woman with the guys and find
> it takes a
tough hide to slug it out. I don't think
one should have to
> "be
able to take it" It is a matter of
time and space and eternal
> disgrace.
> pauls
statement saying "poor diane" starts the message like rancid
> butter. give
it a thought. It isn't always the peripherial
sots and
> odds that
steadily discourage or disparage women with crap remarks. It
> is a pitiful
thought that having sex with those guys is a desparate act
> on someones
part. If anyone thinks that one should ignore such attacks
> that have no
substance but "their imho" then we might as well let racial
> epitaths,
jewish remarks, impotency jokes, and neonazi sympathies work
> as commerce
instead of thought and reason.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:54:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
and, may i ask,
whose desperation, jack's or diane's?
mc
jo grant wrote:
> Paul A.
Maher Jr wrote:
>
> >to add
to this...there exists nothing in Kerouac's archives about him ever
> >having
something to do with Diane DiPrima sexually. At the most he screwed
> >her out
of sexual desperation. Folks..well, next post maybe. P.
> >"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> >
Henry David Thoreau
>
> Hmm. So he
"...[S]crewed her out of sexual desperation."
>
> Interesting.
>
> Tell us more
about screwing out of sexual desperation. I've heard of people
> screwing out
of financial desperation, but not sexual desperation.
>
> Interesting
new thread here.
>
> j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:57:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: DiPrima - Beat Skank
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr
>I posted to
poor Diane on the list some vicious comment about DiPrima when I
>meant to lay
it on the list...DiPrima has nothing special to say. Her only
>claim to fame
is having sex with prominent Beatmembers and writing about it.
>Jakc musta'
been drunk. Really....Jack Kerouac wrote about the joy of life
>and of
suffering ...and he was an original. Nothing like these wanna-Beat's
>who lay
around moaning about menstruation and pills. P of TKQ.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
Unwarranted
disparagement...
Took time to dig
out the excerpt DiPrima wrote about a sexual escapade with
JK. It was
very well written, a little slice of
life, very erotic, by a
Beat Woman
Writer--worth keeping.
She's very good.
IMO none of the
women considered "Beat" have been given the credit they
deserve.
At the risk of
starting another war, one of the best examples of a writer
with great
promise, treated like crap by most of the Beats,( including her
Godfather AG) and
the Beat affecianadoes was Jan Kerouac. And it hasn't
stopped. Even the
final few paragraphs she wrote have two people, with
unlimited money,
scrambling around in court to get them changed.
Is the most
shameful, despicable form of censorship that which is done for
profit?
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:01:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: this is wearing thin, paul
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our
virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>as it seems
to apply to only you and not other list members.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:03:28 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Langston Hughes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
loved them both,
and brought to mind Ishmael Reed's
'do not read this
poem'
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:15:00 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: beats and sherri's birthday
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
fred boggin will
keep this jpeg on his web page until mon. anyone
interested in
looking at our dissipation on sherri's birthday, go to:
http://www.escape.com/~bogin/kerouac.jpg
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:17:40 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg & Poe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
bill, i also have
to cast my vote with diane, having spent the day with the
collected poems
and poe. visionary most certainly and the road to excess needs
no
explanation.
mc
Bill Gargan
wrote:
> I have to
agree with Diane. It is the visonary and
mystical aspects of Poe's
w
> ork that
would appeal to Ginsberg. I also think
the tragic and romantic image
> of Poe that
was presented to most of us in the 1950s would have attracted
Allen
> ,
particularly when considered again after having read Baudelaire, Rimbaud,
Bla
> ke and
various Gnostic texts. Poe would have
appealed to Allen as someone who
> epitomized
Blake's dictum: "The road to excess leads to the palace of wisdom."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:21:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
speaking as a
painter vs poet: white = absence of color
black= all
colors.
mc
Neil M. Hennessy
wrote:
> On Mon, 9
Feb 1998, John Hasbrouck wrote:
>
> > Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
> > >
> > >
And yes, there *is* a Zen Buddhist way to say that Black is White, and
> > >
that "lesser" arguments are the better. I do not invoke the Zen
Buddhist
> > >
way, however; I am almost always being quite literal.
> > >
> > Of
course any discussion of Zen only clouds the mind.
> >
> > >
Black and White are both myths created by our primitive sensory
> > >
abilities, by the way.
> > >
> > This is
sophistry of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
> > defer
to your utter mastery of this great art. As we all know, it is
> >
impossible to win any argument with such an opponent, since the rules of
> > the
game are constantly changing.
>
> Actually
John, Jeffrey is right, in a way. "Black" and "White" as
colour
> terms in
English are just the extremes of the spectrum, their significance
> has been
culturally determined. For two interesting studies on the
> development
of colour terms in language, see Brent Berlin and Paul Kay,
> _Basic Color
Terms: Their Universality and Evolution_ (Berkeley:
> University
of California Press, 1969) and Paul Kay and Chad McDaniel, "The
> Linguistic
Significance of the Meanings of Basic Color Terms," _Language_,
> 54 (1978)
610-46.
>
> There's lots
of fascinating stuff about basic colour terms cross language
> barriers,
and there's actually a grammar that generates the system of all
> basic colour
terms for any language according to the number of basic
> colour terms
in it.
>
> Neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:26:37 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The "Beat" Generation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In light of this
it is interesting to look at a passage from pg 51 of Some
of the
Dharma. Keep in mind this passage was
written in 1953 or 1954, long
before Burroughs
began work on what would become Naked Lunch.
________________
If I had felicity with facility I'm
telling you I'd be a millionaire...
In Mexico, a life of leisure
& delicacy
& solitude
& art
perhaps--
A printer in
Mexico City,
Proprietor of the
Beautiful Press,
publishing saints
only...
First issue will
be HUNCKE: "Sing Sing Visions"
CASSADY: "The First Third"
BURROUGHS: "Naked Lunch"
GINSBERG: "Acavalna the Cave of Night"
SOLOMON: "Buddha's Madhouse"
KEROUAC: "Doctor Sax"
FITZGERALD: "Mad Murphy and Mighty Mike"
The issue to be call'd "Six
Unpublished Saints" with a big Number 1
(pg 51 SoD)
_________________
I had read how
Kerouac often told Burroughs how he would be a great writer
and would write a
book called Naked Lunch. Here it is how
Kerouac mapped
out in his
fantasy this goal (along with a goal for others) and in the case
of Burroughs it
came true. As was pointed out Kerouac
did a lot of the work
in typing up and
consolidating Burrough's manuscript.
I don't know who
Fitzgeral is (Tom Fitzgerald is a name I seem to remember
but don't know
who he is. First Third did get published
(and is still read
and even spawned
a movie this last year).
Hunckeeventually was published
and has the most
comprehensive piece of work published as the Herbert Huncke
Reader. Is Buddha's Madhouse the work published as
Mishaps perhaps? (I
think that is
Solomon's book, right?). I don't know
what Acavalna the cave
of Night is or
was. Was it something Ginsberg wrote or
something kerouac
was telegraphing
for Ginsberg a la Naked Lunch for Burroughs?
And it is alos of
note to see that Kerouac included Dr. Sax here, not on the
Road or Visions
of Cody. This passage was written at a
time when Kerouac
couldn't get his
phone number published despite the fact that he had already
published a
relatively critically acclaimed work.
He did have a
vision.
At 07:00 PM 2/9/98
-0500, you wrote:
>At the risk
of ponitificating this opinion upon you folks...there are those
>out there who
know what I'm talking about so agree amongst yourselves or
>voice in
support. These various figures cannot be claimed as true "writers"
>who carried
the spirit of the Beat Generation. true there was a Beat
>Generation
which carries forth into this day with the same freeloaders and
>layabouts who
want to call themselves Beat but are really jobless and
>without a
self-identity. I split Kerouac away from this garbage because he,
>unlike the
others who profess to be part of this alleged generation,(which
>was not
really a generation but instead, a crew of oppurtunists who rode
>then and to
this day on the coattails of Kerouac).
> Kerouac wrote. Day in and day out he wrote
and was therefore a writer. He
>stands alone
in the history of American Literature as a writer of huge
>proportions.
Like the writers of the Lost Generation he had genius and
>talent. He
would have written had there not been a Beat Generation. What can
>be said for
all the other mediocrities he had fostered from then till now?
>They wrote
because they had to be encouraged. When they wrote in notebooks,
>it was
Kerouac who typed up major portions of the manuscript and encouraged
>their writing
(Burroughs) or showed them a style and they copied it forever
>after
(Ginsberg who had always professed to be a mere imitator of Kerouac).
>Would
Ferlinghetti be a known poet if he had not self-published his own
>poetry? Now
Im not saying that none of the afore-mentioned writers aren't
>talented
writers...just this, they all were supported in their chosen
>careers by
Kerouac. They may be geniuses in their own right...but...well
>Burroughs
literatire had floundered when he distanced himself from his
>fellow Beats
and went on his own journey. Only his later post-cutup lit
>could ever
touch the fire of Naked Lunch. Ginsberg's poetry thrived on his
>past
inventions instead of trying to reinvent himself or just plain falling
>for lame
shock-value tactics in his poetry (read "Come On Jack").
>At least
Kerouac recognized this and stayed away. His mind was on his own
>true vision
of the world and he continued to expound on it,though
>unsuccessfully
with his savage bouts of drinking.
> I'm just asking you all to really consider if
this was a generation at all
>or...like the
followers of Picasso who adopted Abstract Cubism in their
>repertoire of
works but could not continue after it because they did not
>arrive their
themselves. This era was all about Jack and that is that. P.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:33:47 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I wrote:
> >Do they
think it's just some hippy-dippy deadhead
>
>take-drugs-and-hitchhike kinda grooved-out loveburger bullshit?
and, bafflingly,
Moritz Rossbach replied:
> yeah !
> not bullshit
though
and JSH is moved
to respond:
=== That is what
you say. I maintain hippies and deadheads are a sad,
unfortunate
by-product of the Beat movement. There is absolutely nothing
in common between
Herbert Huncke and Timothy Leary except that they were
both con men.
I would much
rather be in a beatnik coffee house in 1961, listening to
poetry and jazz,
reading and learning and listening and enjoying art,
than to be at
some Be-In in 1967 or acid-rock festival in 1968, with
selfish throngs
of spoiled, ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out
beyond
self-control, calling you a Pig if you don't give them a handout,
doing their own
thing at everybody else's expense (totally inimical to
the
"Johnson" credo) giving up attending protest rallies when they
suddenly weren't
fun and games anymore.....and it's only gotten worse in
modern times. Ben
& Jerry's Ice Cream, Grateful Dead coffee mugs, key
chains, t-shirts,
stickers, give me a fucking break! This is so far away
from "On The
Road" it's like another planet.
I was a hippie in
my youth, and learned the hard way that the hippie
ideals were a
sham. I quickly evolved into a Yippie, but without Abbie's
sense of humor
they were nothing. Eventually I learned that you just
can't beat the
direct honesty and integrity of the original Beats. As
far as I'm
concerned, the masses took a wrong turn in 1967 and the REAL
counterculture
has been derailed ever since.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.Scott Holland
ke nt uc ky
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:38:30 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: oops
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have no idea
how the phrase "maybe you should join the army or
something"
ended up at the end of my "Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no"
post's
title.........weird and wacky.
=-=-=
jsh
ky
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:46:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: George Russell
<CodyPomera@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: THE DEAD/BEATS-Terrapin Station
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The Terrapin
Station Project is going to happen and is set to open New Years
Eve 1999. The remaining members of the Dead will
play. Maybe they'll have a
hologram of
Jerry? The museum will be dedicated to
the Dead and their fans
with a Dead
parking lot and a bunch of other stuff...I can't wait.
-George
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm afraid some
day you'll play lonely games too,
Games you can't
win because you'll play against you.
-Dr. Seuss
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:47:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr
wrote:
>to add to
this...there exists nothing in Kerouac's archives about him ever
>having
something to do with Diane DiPrima sexually. At the most he screwed
>her out of
sexual desperation. Folks..well, next post maybe. P.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
Hmm. So he
"...[S]crewed her out of sexual desperation."
Interesting.
Tell us more
about screwing out of sexual desperation. I've heard of people
screwing out of
financial desperation, but not sexual desperation.
Interesting new
thread here.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:10:52 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
FRANKLIN CARTER
wrote:
>
> I joined
this list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
> pathetic
psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats.
=== maybe you
should try harder to lurk and learn.
> The crap
coming out of his mouth is making me sick.
=== Well, you
weren't supposed to *eat* it. It's strictly for decorative
use only; reread
the directions.
> Can anyone
help me out and tell
> me how to
turn off this tv?
=== you could be
a man and accept that some people's opinions do not
match
yours.....or you could get over yourself and just NOT READ any
post that comes
in with my name on it......or you could visit the Golden
Gate Bridge and
wow us with your Wiley Coyote impersonation.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, KY
surer than ever
now that humanity is doomed
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:25:31 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>jo grant
wrote:
>
>> At the
risk of starting another war, one of the best examples of a writer
>> with
great promise, treated like crap by most of the Beats,( including her
>>
Godfather AG) and the Beat affecianadoes was Jan Kerouac.
>
>
>=== Yes
indeedy.....Ginsberg's treatment of her was appalling. I don't
>understand
it. Does anyone know why he had such a
bad attitude about
>her? I know she was hard to deal with sometimes,
but that's no reason
>for the
betrayal and thievery that she experienced. And when are her
>writings ever
going to be back in print again??
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
H
>feral human
of ky
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J. S.,
Gerry Nicosia is
her literary executor and (I believe) has some things
happening with
her Trainsong and Baby Driver.
If I hear details
I'll pass them on to you.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details
on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:55:46 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jacks world was
at an end before Neal's--Neal just died first.
James
Mary Maconnell
wrote:
> Don't mean
to drag a subject on but I *did* look up a website which dealt
> with Neal
specifically. Interesting that Neal died
before Jack did -- I
> wonder if
Jack
>
intentionally thought the world was at an end because Neal
>
died...that's always been a curiousity to me.
>
> So (sigh)
... I'm going to see "Kerouac" again in Seattle this coming
>
weekend. It's different every time. :)
>
> Take care, all.
>
> Mary
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jack
into bed. A letto con Jack. (Re: Diane di Prima)
Cc:
Bcc:
mapaul@PIPELINE.COM
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19980209234403.006d105c@pop.pipeline.com>
References:
Buona sera a
tutti gli amici beat,
Paul A. Maher Jr.
says:
>to add to
this...there exists nothing in Kerouac's archives about him ever
>having
something to do with Diane DiPrima sexually. At the most he screwed
>her out of
sexual desperation. Folks..well, next post maybe. P.
>
Paul, maybe
there's another point of view concerning Jack
Kerouac had sex
with Diane Di Prima. i quote from an italian
beat scholar
A letto con Jack. (guida alla beat
generation
Emanuele Bevilacqua)
E c'e' anche del sesso, naturalmente, nei
giorni e
nelle notti dei
beat. Una pagina da Memorie di una beatnik
_Memoirs of a Beat_ e' piuttosto simbolica,
perche' l'autrice
del libro Diane
Di Prima, invita a casa Allen Ginsberg,
Jack Kerouac e
altri amici.
Dopo una serata di chiacchiere e di poesia ci
fu una
"strana
orgia indescrivibile". Si creano due gruppi, uno di
uomini, intorno a
Ginsberg, e poi Diane e Jack...
i stop to
elaborate... but
the tale
continues in a *very* explicit hardcore description
of Jack like the
greek deity Pan... it's a strange way that Jack
Kerouac gave for
free his short stories to the catholic "Jubilee Magazine"
and at the same
time had "strange orgy" with Diane Di Prima...
saluti a tutti,
Rinaldo.
-------Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:16:18 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Tue, 10
Feb 1998 23:04:42...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:04:42 +0100 with subject "Jack into
bed. A letto
con Jack. (Re: Diane
di Prima)" has been
successfully
distributed to
the BEAT-L list (254 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:18:54 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: why is the three important, poor ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I didn't
disparage jack, he isn't my favorite but i would be misstating
if I didn't say
that i believe some sort of magic was
involved in those
three being
friends and all coming to write as they did. Each different
yet some common
bell rang. I agree with who ever said
that the women of
the beats are
underesteemed. i have been a woman with the guys and find
it takes a tough
hide to slug it out. I don't think one
should have to
"be able to
take it" It is a matter of time and
space and eternal
disgrace.
pauls statement
saying "poor diane" starts the message like rancid
butter. give it a
thought. It isn't always the peripherial
sots and
odds that
steadily discourage or disparage women with crap remarks. It
is a pitiful
thought that having sex with those guys is a desparate act
on someones part.
If anyone thinks that one should ignore such attacks
that have no
substance but "their imho" then we might as well let racial
epitaths, jewish
remarks, impotency jokes, and neonazi sympathies work
as commerce
instead of thought and reason.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:49:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i really don't
know much about jan. i have always wanted to find out more
about her. it was
surprising the first time i heard about the way allen
treated her,
seeing as how he was her godfather. he threw her off nyu campus
when she wanted
to speak about jack's literary archives! but i didn't know
about how the
others treated her. i assumed it was just something personal
between them.
also, i didn't know that she had a difficult personality, or
that she ever
wrote. knowing that asking for so much background research will
probably bore
people who feel their mailboxes are already deluged, please e-
mail me privately
if you feel you can enlighten me. thanks a lot in advance
for the help. i
appreciate it. =)
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:15:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack into bed. (a question for Mr.
Maher)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:04 PM
2/10/98 +0100, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
>to add to
this...there exists nothing in Kerouac's archives about him ever
>having
something to do with Diane DiPrima sexually. At the most he screwed
>her out of
sexual desperation. Folks..well, next post maybe. P.
Paul,
Just out of curiousity,
I posted a question in regards to any help
in finding info
about something in JK's archives and I was wondering
if you could fill
me in about the status of this (that is if you know
anything
about this, or
will be viewing the archives in the near future), or find
out if such
exists?
Sincerely,
Mike
-------------------------------------
Here is the
original post:
On 2/06/98, I
wrote:
>I was
wondering if any of the scholars on the list
>know of/have
seen, etc., anything in Kerouac's
>archives
about his plan to continue "SEA: Sounds of
>the Pacific
Ocean at Big Sur?" I was recently
perusing
>through
_Satori in Paris_ and he mentions his plans
>to continue
this after leaving Paris, but nothing is
>mentioned
further on in the novel (from what I
>remember). Kerouac also mentions this during the
>Jarvis/Curtis
radio interview in Lowell, in September
>of 1962. I don't remember seeing anything in any
>of the bio's
etc. regarding any further work on this.
>Has anyone
seen any further work in the archives?
>
>Enquiring
minds want to know. . .
>Mike
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:24:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>i really
don't know much about jan. i have always wanted to find out more
>about her. it
was surprising the first time i heard about the way allen
>treated her,
seeing as how he was her godfather. he threw her off nyu campus
>when she
wanted to speak about jack's literary archives! but i didn't know
>about how the
others treated her. i assumed it was just something personal
>between them.
also, i didn't know that she had a difficult personality, or
>that she ever
wrote. knowing that asking for so much background research will
>probably bore
people who feel their mailboxes are already deluged, please e-
>mail me
privately if you feel you can enlighten me. thanks a lot in advance
>for the help.
i appreciate it. =)
>
>aeronwy
Start with:
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.html
Look around. I
have to get some more material together soon. I'll post it
to you.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:34:34 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Velvet Underground
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> >what do
these lyrics mean to you?
> .
> eat!
> )
> (
> )
> TV (black & white)
> & a smile (campbell)
> ()
> a T-shirt (micky mouse)
> micky mouse (T-shirt)
> ( andy warhol (Andrew Warhola) )
> ( )
> eat!
> guitars (1) lift the ring to can edge
> (TV)
> drum (2) pull up ring pushing
with thumb
> ( )
> eat
> barley &
> vegetables soup
> ()
> eat!
> .
>
> 021098
> RSARLD50B26
absolutely
nothing
explain if you
wish
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:42:50 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Levi Asher wrote:
> That's all
right, you can go off on the Deadheads if you want, we
> know you
secretly bop to "Touch of Grey" when it comes on the radio,
> like
everybody else.
=== Oh heck no,
that's way too modern fer me. I did dig
"Truckin'"
though. And that
"Old And In the Way" album Garcia did.
> Their best
songs came out of the
> early 70's,
and these songs (not the 60's music) became the
> reportoire
for all their shows.
=== But I wasn't
talking about the band at all, you see, I have no real
problem with the
band itself. I have a whole bag of live Dead tapes that
a guy gave me
when I dropped some cash on him as he was hoboing his way
crosscountry by
trainhopping - now THAT'S the kinda deadhead that gets
my respect.
Anyway, to me the Dead were a decent enough blues jam band;
I was harping on
the legions of demented followers, not the band.
> And the Dead
were smart enough
> to leave
Haight-Ashbury in 67 -- J. Scott Holland, maybe the
> reason
you're so pissed off is that you hung around too long.
=== Actually I
didn't pay any attention to the Dead until many years
later, like
around "Shakedown Street" time. I was more of a Beatles,
Stones, Kinks 'n'
Who kinda kid in the late 60's; I was behind the times
even as a child I
guess. Well, the Who were still hip anyway. (I wish
Pete would write
a novel. I hated his "Horse's Neck" collection but I
still think he
has it in him.)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Holland -
KY.
Actually
listening to
Dean Martin
(shhhh,
don't tell
anyone)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:47:32 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: why is the three important, poor
ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
> I guarantee
you that the position the
> women were
in with the Beats was exactly
> where they
wanted to be.
=== You can't
possibly be serious.
=-=-=
jshky
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:52:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "J. Giles"
<SilverSkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: "bleed for me"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The line _is_
"bleed for me," that is if we're to believe Lou Reed. The lyrics
to "Venus in
Furs" are printed in Reed's book, _Between Thought and
Expression:
Selected Lyrics of Lou Reed_ (Hyperion, 1991).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:08:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 02:47 PM
2/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Paul A. Maher
Jr wrote:
>
>>to add to
this...there exists nothing in Kerouac's archives about him ever
>>having
something to do with Diane DiPrima sexually. At the most he screwed
>>her out
of sexual desperation. Folks..well, next post maybe. P.
>>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>Hmm. So he
"...[S]crewed her out of sexual desperation."
>
>Interesting.
>
>Tell us more
about screwing out of sexual desperation. I've heard of people
>screwing out
of financial desperation, but not sexual desperation.
>
>Interesting
new thread here.
>
>j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
>Every man I
know has suffered from sexual desperation at one time
or another, with
a need that can't be quelled. Financial
desperation
is strictly for
the cashless female.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
ttc13570@host.taconic.net
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:33:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: FRANKLIN CARTER
<nilknarf@TACONIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I joined this
list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
pathetic
psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats. The crap
coming out of his
mouth is making me sick. Can anyone help
me out and tell
me how to turn
off this tv?
Nilknarf
Not-diggin'-it
Not-Kentucky
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:35:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg? (and
etc)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-10 16:26:37 EST, you write:
<<
>jo grant wrote:
>
>> At the risk of starting another war,
one of the best examples of a writer
>> with great promise, treated like crap
by most of the Beats,( including her
>> Godfather AG) and the Beat affecianadoes
was Jan Kerouac.
>
>
>=== Yes indeedy.....Ginsberg's treatment
of her was appalling. I don't
>understand it. Does anyone know why he had such a bad
attitude about
>her?
I know she was hard to deal with sometimes, but that's no reason
>for the betrayal and thievery that she
experienced. And when are her
>writings ever going to be back in print
again??
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott H
>feral human of ky >>
Yeah, I'd be
interested in finding out about Jan Kerouac too. I actually saw
one of her books
in a bargain bin at the local encore a while ago, and took a
look at it- but
the blurb on the back made it sound like a rip off of OTR
(can't remember
the title though-sorry). I passed it off as her trying to make
some money off of
her father's reputation- which was admittedly an uninformed
and judgmental
response, but what are you going to do.
ANyway, I think
I'll take this oppurtunity to spew out some random comments:
first off:
started reading AG's Indian Journals again, and a couple of times
he mentions Brion
Gysin, only spells it "BriAn". Also lists his favorite pages
in JK's Mexico
City Blues.
also- I know that
the "petty bickering" gets annoying at times... usually it
really pisses me
off- but at the moment I'm really enjoying this jeffrey scott
holland- john
hasbrouck exchange. For some reason it is really cracking me up.
:) Man, the guys
on this list are true wingnuts, in such a good way.
Seriously. You
all make my zucchini4 mailbox worth checking some days.
I should be
picking up a Diane DiPrima book this weekend if all goes as
planned. I'll
post some of the best little poems, and then we can all make our
own decisions as
to if she's just famous for screwing you know who. And I'm
about to go try a
cut up experiment- my first, how exciting (unless magnetic
poetry counts-
and I'm going to have to say I really love my magnetic poetry).
Let's all hope it
goes well. If it does, and I'm in a good mood, I'll tell you
all about the
time I contacted WSB via ouija board.
--Stephanie
ps- Do you any of
you know much about the PoemFone Poets? (something else I'm
curious about...
all I do is ask you guys questions! )
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:41:07 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
FRANKLIN CARTER
wrote:
>
> I joined
this list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
> pathetic
psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats. The crap
> coming out
of his mouth is making me sick. Can
anyone help me out and tell
> me how to
turn off this tv?
>
> Nilknarf
>
Not-diggin'-it
> Not-Kentucky
you sound pretty
open-minded
it surprises me
that people with certain mentalities can even handle
beat literature
give the guy a
break
he is an
individual
unlike some
people i know
edm
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:42:22 -0800
Reply-To: jmaynard@csubak.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: beats and sherri's birthday
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
> fred boggin
will keep this jpeg on his web page until mon. anyone
> interested
in looking at our dissipation on sherri's birthday, go to:
>
http://www.escape.com/~bogin/kerouac.jpg
Hard to think of
a better place to do one's dissipatin'...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Expiredinmiddle:
true
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:45:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: a query.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
howdy
postbeaters,
i have a thought
i was pondering. i was walking around
campus after having
picked
up a copy of the
portable beat reader from the library, and i asked myself,
"given
our history and
evolution of society, political structure, art, etc. etc., what
would
be a logical, and
reasoned future?" what i'm more
curious about, though, is the
present condition
of art(writing, music, visual art). i
admit that i've
concentrated
too much on the
classics up to but not including the present.
i'm greatly
interested
in the beats, but
what has it all led up to so far? is there
a group of writers
similar to and as
collectively great as the beats today?
perhaps underrated,
perhaps
not? are they recognized today or will they be
recognized tommorrow? anyone
care
to respond?
"The
unexamined life is not worth living."-Socrates-
Al
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:50:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Other than not
supporting Jan at the 1995 NYU Beat conference, just how was
Allen Ginsberg's
treatment of Jan Kerouac so "appauling"?
Howard Park
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:52:06 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> FRANKLIN
CARTER wrote:
> >
> > I
joined this list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
> >
pathetic psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats.
>
> === maybe
you should try harder to lurk and learn.
>
> > The
crap coming out of his mouth is making me sick.
>
> === Well,
you weren't supposed to *eat* it. It's strictly for decorative
> use only;
reread the directions.
>
> > Can
anyone help me out and tell
> > me how
to turn off this tv?
>
> === you
could be a man and accept that some people's opinions do not
> match
yours.....or you could get over yourself and just NOT READ any
> post that
comes in with my name on it......or you could visit the Golden
> Gate Bridge
and wow us with your Wiley Coyote impersonation.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland,
KY
> surer than
ever now that humanity is doomed
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
maybe he should
just change the channel to the Golden Girls or something
cant stand an
opinion or two, maybe Bea Arthur would be better
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:55:14 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> FRANKLIN
CARTER wrote:
> >
> > I
joined this list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
> >
pathetic psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats.
>
> === maybe
you should try harder to lurk and learn.
>
> > The
crap coming out of his mouth is making me sick.
>
> === Well,
you weren't supposed to *eat* it. It's strictly for decorative
> use only;
reread the directions.
>
> > Can
anyone help me out and tell
> > me how
to turn off this tv?
>
> === you
could be a man and accept that some people's opinions do not
> match
yours.....or you could get over yourself and just NOT READ any
> post that
comes in with my name on it......or you could visit the Golden
> Gate Bridge
and wow us with your Wiley Coyote impersonation.
boy is there an
advantage of being a woman.
i would never be
a dead head
but have fucked
dead heads
and found them to
be as other men
have they not
minds, not mouths.
old hippies not
all shallow ,
some suvive the
fall.
group hug
everyone
p
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:31:32 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I joined this
list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
>pathetic
psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats.
This made me
laugh out loud.
Very funny and
apt.
Not that this guy
is a bad writer or unamusing himself or totally without
merit in the
things he says. (I actually quite
enjoyed some of his
schtick).
I don't mind or
even notice so called big words or esoteric vocabulary or
whatever it was
his words were called.
Here's one:
puerile. I think San Pablo and droohls
can fit that mold. Not
necessarily a bad
thing. It goes with the territory.
So Joohls droohls
sink or swim the light is out the light is on the dr is
real in.
Remember Beer's
Law if you will.
>The crap
>coming out of
his mouth is making me sick. Can anyone
help me out and tell
>me how to
turn off this tv?
>
>Nilknarf
>Not-diggin'-it
>Not-Kentucky
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:52:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> I would much
rather be in a beatnik coffee house in 1961, listening to
> poetry and
jazz, reading and learning and listening and enjoying art,
> than to be
at some Be-In in 1967 or acid-rock festival in 1968, with
> selfish
throngs of spoiled, ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out
> beyond
self-control, calling you a Pig if you don't give them a handout,
> doing their
own thing at everybody else's expense (totally inimical to
> the
"Johnson" credo) giving up attending protest rallies when they
> suddenly
weren't fun and games anymore.....and it's only gotten worse in
> modern
times. Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, Grateful Dead coffee mugs, key
> chains,
t-shirts, stickers, give me a fucking break! This is so far away
> from
"On The Road" it's like another planet.
That's all right,
you can go off on the Deadheads if you want, we
know you secretly
bop to "Touch of Grey" when it comes on the radio,
like everybody
else.
The one biggest
point I've always wished people would understand
about the
Grateful Dead is that even though the straight world
can't stop
associating the Dead with 1967 Haight-Ashbury and
be-ins and all
that, the 60's thing actually plays a very small
role in Deadhead
culture. Their best songs came out of
the
early 70's, and
these songs (not the 60's music) became the
reportoire for
all their shows. And the Dead were smart
enough
to leave
Haight-Ashbury in 67 -- J. Scott Holland, maybe the
reason you're so
pissed off is that you hung around too long.
Just kidding, J.
Scott -- seriously, you've got the best
.sig's I've ever
seen ... but how long can you keep it up?
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
| |
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
podulkca@uwec.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:56:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathrine Podulke
<podulkca@UWEC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:33 PM
2/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I joined this
list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
>pathetic
psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats. The crap
>coming out of
his mouth is making me sick. Can anyone
help me out and tell
>me how to
turn off this tv?
>
>Nilknarf
>Not-diggin'-it
>Not-Kentucky
>
I think it's all
a matter of opinion. Like you, I too have been lurking and
learning, but I
delete what I don't want. If you don't like what you hear,
all you have to
do is ignore it! It's not that hard. Usually if you learn
something from
the beats, it opens up your mind but not everyone can
understand.
Kat
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:03:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: a query.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>howdy
postbeaters,
>is there a
group of writers
>similar to
and as collectively great as the beats today?
perhaps underrated,
> perhaps
>not? are they recognized today or will they be
recognized tommorrow?
Yes, and by
chance they all subscribe and post to the beat-l
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:07:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: why is the three important, poor
ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:.but I guarantee you
> that the
position the women were in with the Beats was exactly where they
> wanted to
be.
> It was never
an act of oppression, just a fact of the times.virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
are you out of
your gourd.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:20:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: why is the three important, poor
ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:18 PM
2/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I didn't
disparage jack, he isn't my favorite but i would be misstating
>if I didn't
say that i believe some sort of magic
was involved in those
>three being
friends and all coming to write as they did. Each different
>yet some
common bell rang. I agree with who ever
said that the women of
>the beats are
underesteemed. i have been a woman with the guys and find
>it takes a
tough hide to slug it out. I don't think
one should have to
>"be able
to take it" It is a matter of time
and space and eternal
>disgrace.
>pauls
statement saying "poor diane" starts the message like rancid
>butter. give
it a thought. It isn't always the
peripherial sots and
>odds that
steadily discourage or disparage women with crap remarks. It
>is a pitiful
thought that having sex with those guys is a desparate act
>on someones
part. If anyone thinks that one should ignore such attacks
>that have no
substance but "their imho" then we might as well let racial
>epitaths,
jewish remarks, impotency jokes, and neonazi sympathies work
>as commerce
instead of thought and reason.
>
I said it was an
act of desperation on jack's part...I could care less how
you perceive how
women were treated. if they had a tough hide they did slug
it out. Most
women writers are in a very tough battle in this world because
of male heirarchy
thoug of course this isn't right...but I guarantee you
that the position
the women were in with the Beats was exactly where they
wanted to be.
It was never an
act of oppression, just a fact of the times. Did men shove
around Gertrude
Stein? P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:25:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack into bed. (a question for Mr.
Maher)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jack always wrote
but on more than one occasion he never fully realized an
idea before
sketching out a new one. By that stage in the game he was too
tired and ill to
do such powerful writing as "Sea". Though, he may have
thought about it
in his head and sketched it out more fully in his
notebooks. I
cannot act as an expert on what is in the archives but the
scope of this as
explained to Jarvis I doubt was ever realized to such
dimensions. For
one he would have had to done the world travelling to sketch
out the sounds of
all the seas he mentioned. This I know he didn't do. Paul...
>Paul,
>
>Just out of
curiousity, I posted a question in regards to any help
>in finding
info about something in JK's archives and I was wondering
>if you could
fill me in about the status of this (that is if you know
>anything
>about this,
or will be viewing the archives in the near future), or find
>out if such
exists?
>
>Sincerely,
>Mike
>
>-------------------------------------
>Here is the
original post:
>
>On 2/06/98, I
wrote:
>
>>I was
wondering if any of the scholars on the list
>>know
of/have seen, etc., anything in Kerouac's
>>archives
about his plan to continue "SEA: Sounds of
>>the
Pacific Ocean at Big Sur?" I was
recently perusing
>>through
_Satori in Paris_ and he mentions his plans
>>to
continue this after leaving Paris, but nothing is
>>mentioned
further on in the novel (from what I
>>remember). Kerouac also mentions this during the
>>Jarvis/Curtis
radio interview in Lowell, in September
>>of
1962. I don't remember seeing anything
in any
>>of the
bio's etc. regarding any further work on this.
>>Has
anyone seen any further work in the archives?
>>
>>Enquiring
minds want to know. . .
>>Mike
>>
>
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry
David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:32:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
J.S.Holland
wrote:
>=== That is
what you say. I maintain hippies and deadheads are a sad,
>unfortunate
by-product of the Beat movement. There is absolutely nothing
>in common
between Herbert Huncke and Timothy Leary except that they were
>both con men.
>
>I would much
rather be in a beatnik coffee house in 1961, listening to
>poetry and
jazz, reading and learning and listening and enjoying art,
>than to be at
some Be-In in 1967 or acid-rock festival in 1968, with
>selfish throngs
of spoiled, ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out
>beyond
self-control, calling you a Pig if you don't give them a handout,
>doing their
own thing at everybody else's expense (totally inimical to
>the
"Johnson" credo) giving up attending protest rallies when they
>suddenly
weren't fun and games anymore.....and it's only gotten worse in
>modern times.
Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, Grateful Dead coffee mugs, key
>chains,
t-shirts, stickers, give me a fucking break! This is so far away
>from "On
The Road" it's like another planet.
>
>I was a
hippie in my youth, and learned the hard way that the hippie
>ideals were a
sham. I quickly evolved into a Yippie, but without Abbie's
>sense of
humor they were nothing. Eventually I learned that you just
>can't beat
the direct honesty and integrity of the original Beats. As
>far as I'm
concerned, the masses took a wrong turn in 1967 and the REAL
>counterculture
has been derailed ever since.
Deadheads,
Hippies, Yippies, Beatniks, do not define the individual.
Read an article,
see a film, trip, get stoned, read poetry, drink coffee,
bum around, pick
up the language and decide to become a Deadhead, Hippie,
Yippie, Beatnik?
Doesn't work?
Didn't for them, didn't for you?
so it goes.
But don't call people
who are part of those groups "selfish throngs of
spoiled,
ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out beyond self-control."
Reserve your
judgement. It's painfully obvious that with none of the groups
you named did you
hang around long enough to gain any degree of
understanding
concerning what they were about.
UNLESS, you were
involved with people who had read an article, seen a film,
tripped, got
stoned, read poetry, drank coffee, bummed around, picked up
the language and
decided to become a Deadhead, Hippie, Yippie, Beatnik?
You said you were
a hippie and learned that their ideals were a sham?
Saying that is a
public admission that you were not a hippie and had no
idea what a
Hippie's ideals were.
You only thought
you were a hippie and you thought the people you were with
who called
themselves hippies had ideals.
Define yourself.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:37:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg? (and
etc)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The question
is...would Jan Kerouac ever had been published if her father
wasn't dear old
jack? Not for nothing did her father say, "You can use my
name..."
That's all he could do for her to assure her survival in the mess
her world was at
the time. Surely...you cannot believe that her writing was
all that
compelling. It seemed to me like College Freshman Creative Writing
Course-type
prosing to me when a good many of the students are already
immeresed in Jack
Kerouac and aspire to be just like him. Paul...
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:40:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:50 PM
2/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>Other than
not supporting Jan at the 1995 NYU Beat conference, just how was
>Allen
Ginsberg's treatment of Jan Kerouac so "appauling"?
>
>Howard Park
>That's it my
friend, it never was. Ginsberg was rather patronizing to her
like he was to a
good many other folks. Why would he want to get sucked into
the Estate battle
void? He could recognize propaganda when he saw it. Those
anti-Estate
figures should have been another addition to his Ballad of
Skeletons.
Paul...
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:45:08 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: a query.
Comments: To:
Patricia Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>actually
timothy, some of the best writers i have ever met, lurk but do
>not post on
this list.
>inegmatically
>patricia
Clearly "subscribe
and post" is a typo and meant to be "subscribe and/or post"
thanks for your
astute vision and acuity Patricia.
>
>Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>>
>>
>howdy postbeaters,
>> >is
there a group of writers
>>
>similar to and as collectively great as the beats today? perhaps
>>underrated,
>> >
perhaps
>>
>not? are they recognized today or
will they be recognized tommorrow?
>>
>> Yes, and
by chance they all subscribe and post to the beat-l
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:56:31 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
>> Details on-line at
>>
http://www.bookzen.com
>> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>>
>>Every man
I know has suffered from sexual desperation at one time
>or another,
with a need that can't be quelled.
Financial desperation
>is strictly
for the cashless female.
>
>Mike Rice
With a need that
can't be quelled?
Sexual needs can
be quelled in many ways. One way is to fuck. People who
are sexually
desperate have a problem. Desperate people are rash, recklass,
frantic. Not
good.
I've been hard
up. JK said something about having to come down of the
mountain to get
laid. Chances are he walked and didn't, in desperation, do
a one and a half
somersault with a twist off the nearest cliff to get to
the nearest warm
body fast. He was hard-up. Not sexually desperate.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:05:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: Re: THE DEAD/BEATS
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Deadhead +
Beatfreak = Deadbeat(freak)
I've been going by the handle/name
"DeadBEAT" ever since my first days on
Local BBSes
(Close to 10 years) and I made up the name because I love Beat
Gen literature,
and most of my favorite authors/poets/artists are dead.
Quite literally
dead-beats... :)
I have to say, also. I have never heard of a Beatfreak.
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
|"With all
the demagoguery [today], poetry can stand
| out as the one
beacon of sanity: a beacon of individual clarity,
| and lucidity in
every direction--whether on the Internet or in coffee
| houses or
university forums or classrooms."
|
|
-- Allen Ginsberg
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:12:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: why is the three important, poor
ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 10:07 PM
2/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Paul A. Maher
Jr. wrote:.but I guarantee you
>> that the
position the women were in with the Beats was exactly where they
>> wanted
to be.
>> It was
never an act of oppression, just a fact of the times.virtues."
>>
Henry David Thoreau
>are you out
of your gourd.
>No but I love
to put people on....P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:14:56 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Other than
not supporting Jan at the 1995 NYU Beat conference, just how was
>Allen
Ginsberg's treatment of Jan Kerouac so "appauling"?
>
>Howard Park
Hard to imagine
anything more appalling than the way he treated Jack
Kerouac's
daughter Jan at the 1995 NYU Beat conference. I think his actions
were not only
unexplainable, they were unforgivable.
Sadly, it
appeared that he choose sides.
After that, many
people who revered him, were never able to listen to him,
talk to him, read
him, think of him, without thinking of what he did that
day. I know
people who think about that day and cry.
So sad.
AG broke hearts
that day.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:28:46 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to Soren
Kierkegaard)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Denver Doldrums
#666 (dedicated to Soren Kierkegaard)
by David B.
Rhaesa
copyright
2-11-1998 (12:26 a.m. CST)
Dreadful
derangement
Disorientation
Divided Darkness
dimming dementia
Distant Dreams
damn damn
defective decency
defecating
debilitating
degredations
doom
DOOM
DoOm
doOM
Disorder
Decorating Divinity
Destruction
Destroy
DeConstruction
DeConstroy
DeCatastrophic
Daydreams
Doctor Drew
Draw Down Dope
Deals
Dirty Down Deals
Draw Dirty Deals
Dirty Draw Deals
Deal Dirty
Drawers
Discussing
Digusting Discussion
DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:13:40 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to
Soren Kierkegaard)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
And no Desolation
Devil
to be found
anywhere!
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday,
February 10, 1998 10:48 PM
Subject: Re:
Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to Soren Kierkegaard)
>Dissonant
Discotechs Disjunct
>
>JS--no
copyright
>
>David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
>
>> Denver
Doldrums #666 (dedicated to Soren Kierkegaard)
>> by David
B. Rhaesa
>>
copyright 2-11-1998 (12:26 a.m. CST)
>>
>> Dreadful
derangement
>>
Disorientation
>> Divided
Darkness
>> dimming
dementia
>> Distant
Dreams
>> damn
damn
>> defective
decency defecating
>>
debilitating degredations
>> doom
>> DOOM
>> DoOm
>> doOM
>> Disorder
Decorating Divinity
>>
Destruction
>> Destroy
>>
DeConstruction
>>
DeConstroy
>>
DeCatastrophic Daydreams
>> Doctor
Drew
>> Draw
Down Dope Deals
>> Dirty
Down Deals
>> Draw
Dirty Deals
>> Dirty
Draw Deals
>> Deal
Dirty Drawers
>>
>>
Discussing Digusting Discussion
>>
>> DR/dbr
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:29:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Correction
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Mike, you were
right the first time, Mexico, not Southern California. Not all
> of Mexico is
hot, you know, and the combination of intoxicants the rumor
> always has
involves barbituates and then drinking with a Mexican party, and
> then the bet
to count railroad tracks. Wasn't
there. Don't know--but S.
> California
it was not.
I'm a little
puzzled by the autopsy report turn the list is taking here--I take
it the death of
Carl Wilson was not enought to satisfy the vampire spirit
stalking
somewhere.
James
> He froze to death in Southern
> Mexico along
a railroad line, after being zonked on speed overnight. Yes,
> froze to
death in SOUTHERN California.
>
> Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:18:17 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jo grant wrote:
> But don't
call people who are part of those groups "selfish throngs of
> spoiled,
ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out beyond self-control."
> Reserve your
judgement.
=== I was
speaking from personal experience....I reserve the right the
make judgments on
my own personal experiences. I didn't
say ALL hippies
were selfish,
spoiled, etc. The several hundred thousand I witnessed
were. (Or *seemed
to be*, to choose my words more legalistically, *in my
perception*.....)
> It's
painfully obvious that with none of the groups
> you named
did you hang around long enough to gain any degree of
>
understanding concerning what they were about.
=== Ah, so if I
don't agree with you, I must just not understand what it
was all about,
eh? Believe me, I understand all too
well.
> You said you
were a hippie and learned that their ideals were a sham?
> Saying that
is a public admission that you were not a hippie and had no
> idea what a
Hippie's ideals were.
=== More
doubletalk. If I don't hold the same opinion of the hippie
ideal that you
do, I must have just not been a hippie in the first
place, eh? It's all about *you*, isn't it?
And what was it I
was saying about selfish?
> Define
yourself.
=== I could try,
but I ain't gonna. I've already wasted way too many
words on deaf
ears.
=-=-=
jsh
ky
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:15:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I don't relate to
the sixties Dead the Seventies dead
or any dead. They are a group which never had a hit.
Their music
stunk. Their entire claim to fame was
through
Kesey and the
Acid Tests. Their stuff is unlistenable.
Crapola, despite
Garcia's millions.
Mike Rice
At 07:52 PM
2/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> I would
much rather be in a beatnik coffee house in 1961, listening to
>> poetry
and jazz, reading and learning and listening and enjoying art,
>> than to
be at some Be-In in 1967 or acid-rock festival in 1968, with
>> selfish
throngs of spoiled, ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out
>> beyond
self-control, calling you a Pig if you don't give them a handout,
>> doing
their own thing at everybody else's expense (totally inimical to
>> the
"Johnson" credo) giving up attending protest rallies when they
>> suddenly
weren't fun and games anymore.....and it's only gotten worse in
>> modern
times. Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, Grateful Dead coffee mugs, key
>> chains,
t-shirts, stickers, give me a fucking break! This is so far away
>> from
"On The Road" it's like another planet.
>
>That's all
right, you can go off on the Deadheads if you want, we
>know you
secretly bop to "Touch of Grey" when it comes on the radio,
>like
everybody else.
>
>The one
biggest point I've always wished people would understand
>about the
Grateful Dead is that even though the straight world
>can't stop
associating the Dead with 1967 Haight-Ashbury and
>be-ins and
all that, the 60's thing actually plays a very small
>role in
Deadhead culture. Their best songs came
out of the
>early 70's,
and these songs (not the 60's music) became the
>reportoire
for all their shows. And the Dead were
smart enough
>to leave
Haight-Ashbury in 67 -- J. Scott Holland, maybe the
>reason you're
so pissed off is that you hung around too long.
>
>Just kidding,
J. Scott -- seriously, you've got the best
>.sig's I've
ever seen ... but how long can you keep it up?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>| Levi Asher
= brooklyn@netcom.com
|
>|
|
>| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
>| (the beat literature web site) |
>|
|
>| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
>| (a real book, like on paper) |
>| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
>|
|
>|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
>|
|
>|
"Nothing is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
>| -- Joni Mitchell |
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:02:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
So it's nice to
see that we have someone here with a degree in Human
Behavior. Where
did you get your degree Jo Grant? I didn't think you and the
others would
maintain a long pathetic thread over it. I only used the word
"desperate"
to illustrate Kerouac's possible extreme (or drunken?) state of
mind to ever
consider having sex with a love-goddess like Diane DiPrima. He
had his pick to
be sure in his post-OTR days. The fact is there isno mention
of her being
intimate with Jack in his journals and he wrote down
everything! So he
was either to ashamed to write it down because of the risk
of being jibed by
the rest of eternity knowing this or....Ms. DiPrima needed
to spice up that
book of hers. Okay Mr. Kinsey? P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:13:56 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: the media beatnik
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Howard Park
wrote:
> Beyond that,
he seemed to
> contribute
nothing more than a recitation of media driven stereotypes.
=== The media
helped shape what the hippies actually became anyway.
> Here is some
news - the beats, at the time, got the same stereotypical
treatment -
> Beats were
supposed to be bongo playing, beret
wearing, unshaven, smelly
> slobs who
wrote really bad poetry. Beat women were
always very thin, slept
> with any man
at the snap of a finger and had a vocabular consisting of "Daddy-
> O",
"groovy" and "cool".
Allen Ginsberg, for one, just hated this stereotype.
=== I, however,
thought it was just fine. It's a far more appealing
stereotype to me
than the hippies, yippies, zippies, diggers, SDS-heads,
punks, goths,
mods, rockers, teddy boys, bobbysoxers, flappers,
antpeople,
blitzkids, New Romantics, headbangers, straight edgers,
crusts,
"rave" geeks, and whatever other 20th century 'youth movements'
I am forgetting
at this early hour without breakfast. Well, ok, the
diggers were
pretty cool actually. And the Teds, too.
And 'unshaven' is
a bit of a misnomer - the mass-media beatniks had
small beards and
goatees, which require a modicum of grooming. Which is
more
aesthetically appealing to me than Ginsberg's
Karl-Marx-in-the-morning
monstrosity with bits of food trapped in it.
The media didn't
necessarily portray their pop-beatnik vision as bad -
Maynard G. Krebs,
the lazy Beatnik on "Dobie Gillis" should be an
inspiration to us
all, Hollywoodized though he was. The same goes the
sterotyped
beatniks on "The Beverly Hillbillies", Sheldon and Wiggy and
their Parthenon
West coffee house, leading a lazy-yet-passionate
Warholian life.
And life imitated art. And for a brief window in
history, I saw
that it was good.
> The beats
cracked open the culture
> of
conformity. One could make a case that
"hippies" cracked it so wide open
> that they
created another culture of conformity.
=== That's
exactly what I am saying. "stupid throngs" is my
ungentlemanly term for "culture of conformity".
> In a sense, castigating
>
"hippies" or any other group is only a short step away from racial or
> religious
prejudice.
=== It never
fails to astound me when people take this position.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, kentucky
kentucky radio
and the big beat
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:41:42 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
perhaps what you
need to do until mr holland comes to his senses is just
delete mr holland's posts w/o reading and paying
attention to the other
posts.. ... there
ARE diamonds here to be found in the
mine/mine
mc
FRANKLIN CARTER
wrote:
> I joined
this list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
> pathetic
psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats. The crap
> coming out
of his mouth is making me sick. Can
anyone help me out and tell
> me how to
turn off this tv?
>
> Nilknarf
>
Not-diggin'-it
> Not-Kentucky
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:42:52 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: typos
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Speaking as
someone who cannot abide typos, my apologies for all of them
that appeared in
my "media beatnik" post.......no food in many hours and
my blood sugar is
going in and out like the tide......
=-=-=
jsh
ky
glug
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
podulkca@uwec.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:43:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathrine Podulke
<podulkca@UWEC.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac's unpublished writings
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey.
Does anyone know
if Kerouac's unpublished pieces off of the cd kicks joy
darkness are
available anywhere?
Thanks,
kat
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:44:37 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg? (and
etc)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i believe the
book you didn't buy was _baby driver_
and in response
to the rest of yr thoughts, no accounting for taste or humor
individually yrs,
mc
Zucchini4@AOL.COM
wrote:
> In a message
dated 98-02-10 16:26:37 EST, you write:
>
> <<
> >jo grant wrote:
> >
> >> At the risk of starting another war,
one of the best examples of a writer
> >> with great promise, treated like
crap by most of the Beats,( including her
> >> Godfather AG) and the Beat
affecianadoes was Jan Kerouac.
> >
> >
> >=== Yes indeedy.....Ginsberg's treatment
of her was appalling. I don't
> >understand it. Does anyone know why he had such a bad
attitude about
> >her?
I know she was hard to deal with sometimes, but that's no reason
> >for the betrayal and thievery that she
experienced. And when are her
> >writings ever going to be back in print
again??
> >
> >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >Jeffrey Scott H
> >feral human of ky >>
>
> Yeah, I'd be
interested in finding out about Jan Kerouac too. I actually saw
> one of her
books in a bargain bin at the local encore a while ago, and took a
> look at it-
but the blurb on the back made it sound like a rip off of OTR
> (can't
remember the title though-sorry). I passed it off as her trying to make
> some money
off of her father's reputation- which was admittedly an uninformed
> and
judgmental response, but what are you going to do.
>
> ANyway, I
think I'll take this oppurtunity to spew out some random comments:
>
> first off:
started reading AG's Indian Journals again, and a couple of times
> he mentions
Brion Gysin, only spells it "BriAn". Also lists his favorite pages
> in JK's
Mexico City Blues.
>
> also- I know
that the "petty bickering" gets annoying at times... usually it
> really
pisses me off- but at the moment I'm really enjoying this jeffrey scott
> holland-
john hasbrouck exchange. For some reason it is really cracking me up.
> :) Man, the
guys on this list are true wingnuts, in such a good way.
> Seriously.
You all make my zucchini4 mailbox worth checking some days.
>
> I should be
picking up a Diane DiPrima book this weekend if all goes as
> planned.
I'll post some of the best little poems, and then we can all make our
> own
decisions as to if she's just famous for screwing you know who. And I'm
> about to go
try a cut up experiment- my first, how exciting (unless magnetic
> poetry
counts- and I'm going to have to say I really love my magnetic poetry).
> Let's all
hope it goes well. If it does, and I'm in a good mood, I'll tell you
> all about
the time I contacted WSB via ouija board.
>
> --Stephanie
>
> ps- Do you
any of you know much about the PoemFone Poets? (something else I'm
> curious
about... all I do is ask you guys questions! )
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:50:03 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
having been a
hippie
a yippee
and a lover of
beat literature since jr high school,
i am at a loss at
how to label me.
any takers?
individually yrs,
mc
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
> >
> >
FRANKLIN CARTER wrote:
> > >
> > > I
joined this list to lurk and learn but I am learning more about the
> > >
pathetic psychoses of Jeffrey Scott Holland than about the beats.
> >
> > ===
maybe you should try harder to lurk and learn.
> >
> > >
The crap coming out of his mouth is making me sick.
> >
> > ===
Well, you weren't supposed to *eat* it. It's strictly for decorative
> > use
only; reread the directions.
> >
> > > Can
anyone help me out and tell
> > > me
how to turn off this tv?
> >
> > === you
could be a man and accept that some people's opinions do not
> > match
yours.....or you could get over yourself and just NOT READ any
> > post
that comes in with my name on it......or you could visit the Golden
> > Gate
Bridge and wow us with your Wiley Coyote impersonation.
>
> boy is there
an advantage of being a woman.
> i would
never be a dead head
> but have
fucked dead heads
> and found
them to be as other men
> have they
not minds, not mouths.
> old hippies
not all shallow ,
> some suvive
the fall.
> group hug
everyone
> p
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:53:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
oops ,omission Hippies/Deadheads
no maybe you should join the
Army or something.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
naturally i
assumed from my list of so called life styles,
deadhead would be
taken as a given.
well, on this
list i've learned never to assume a thing.
so
guilty of
everything
as huncke would
say
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:05:15 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thanks levi. how
many people here have heard of the rex foundation, bass
player phil
lesh's brain child, in which broke and avant-garde composers
receive not just
a check for ten thou in the mail out of the blue, but also a
very specific
explanation of just why and how he enjoys the composers' work,
how many know
that drummer mickey hart is on board of smithstonian institue,
more erudite
about the world and history of the drum and drumming than most
anyone around.
and last of all,
if you never had a hit of owsly acid and danced yr pants off
with thousands of
people, the wind and music blowing right through your body,
and you were of
age to do it, and didn't out of snobbery or fear,
i pity you guys.
i'went to a
weekend conference which turned into an encounter grou with
carolyn adams
garcia ('mountain girl'), david gans,
john perry barlow, bear,
and steve
silberman(who btw is a ginsberg scholar) the year following jerry
garcia's death,
an amazing weekend of hearts and minds.
mc
Levi Asher wrote:
> The one
biggest point I've always wished people would understand
> about the
Grateful Dead is that even though the straight world
> can't stop
associating the Dead with 1967 Haight-Ashbury and
> be-ins and
all that, the 60's thing actually plays a very small
> role in
Deadhead culture. Their best songs came
out of the
> early 70's,
and these songs (not the 60's music) became the
> reportoire
for all their shows. And the Dead were
smart enough
> to leave
Haight-Ashbury in 67 -- J. Scott Holland, maybe the
> reason
you're so pissed off is that you hung around too long.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> | Levi Asher
= brooklyn@netcom.com
|
> |
|
> | Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
> | (the beat literature web site) |
> |
|
> | "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
> | (a real book, like on paper) |
> | also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
> |
|
> |
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
> |
|
> |
"Nothing is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
> | -- Joni Mitchell |
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:24:11 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: THE DEAD/BEATS
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill Philibin
wrote:
> >
Deadhead + Beatfreak = Deadbeat(freak)
>
> I have to say, also. I have never heard of a Beatfreak.
>
> yeah bill, but i have watched countless
deadbeats freak....
mc
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:31:07 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,/off topic
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
mike rice wrote:
> I don't
relate to the sixties Dead the Seventies dead
> or any
dead. They are a group which never had a
hit.
> Their music
stunk. Their entire claim to fame was
through
> Kesey and
the Acid Tests. Their stuff is
unlistenable.
> Crapola,
despite Garcia's millions.
>
jerry garcia's
guitar playing is among the most amazing i've every heard, i
don't think
you've ever really followed the line of fusion created in live
shows,
improvisation, synchronicity, and pure beauty of jerry's spiraling
solos.
and then again,
there were a lot of 'off nights'
but the best so
overrule the bad shows.
feel sorry for
you, mike.
this is the last
public post i will make on this off beat thread.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:42:30 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
wow. you must be
superman, not clark kent. you saw individually and talked
to individually
each and every of these hundreds of thousands of people?
goodness, i don't
remember meeting you at any of the shows...
mc
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> jo grant
wrote:
>
> > But
don't call people who are part of those groups "selfish throngs of
> >
spoiled, ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out beyond self-control."
> > Reserve
your judgement.
>
> === I was
speaking from personal experience....I reserve the right the
> make
judgments on my own personal experiences.
I didn't say ALL hippies
> were
selfish, spoiled, etc. The several hundred thousand I witnessed
> were. (Or
*seemed to be*, to choose my words more legalistically, *in my
>
perception*.....)
>
> > It's
painfully obvious that with none of the groups
> > you
named did you hang around long enough to gain any degree of
> >
understanding concerning what they were about.
>
> === Ah, so
if I don't agree with you, I must just not understand what it
> was all
about, eh? Believe me, I understand all
too well.
>
> > You
said you were a hippie and learned that their ideals were a sham?
> > Saying
that is a public admission that you were not a hippie and had no
> > idea
what a Hippie's ideals were.
>
> === More
doubletalk. If I don't hold the same opinion of the hippie
> ideal that
you do, I must have just not been a hippie in the first
> place,
eh? It's all about *you*, isn't it?
>
> And what was
it I was saying about selfish?
>
> > Define
yourself.
>
> === I could
try, but I ain't gonna. I've already wasted way too many
> words on
deaf ears.
>
> =-=-=
> jsh
> ky
> =-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:48:23 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to
Soren Kierkegaard)
Comments: To:
Diane Carter <dcarter@together.net>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane Carter
wrote:
>
> > David
Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
> >
> > Denver
Doldrums #666 (dedicated to Soren Kierkegaard) (revised)
> > by
David B. Rhaesa
> >
copyright 2-11-1998 (12:26 a.m. CST)
> >
Dear Dirty
Drawers:
> >
Dreadful derangement
> >
Disorientation
> > Divided
Darkness
> > dimming
dementia
> > Distant
Dreams
> > damn
damn
> >
defective decency defecating
> >
debilitating degredations
> > doom
> > DOOM
> > DoOm
> > doOM
> >
Disorder Decorating Divinity
> >
Destruction
> > Destroy
> >
DeConstruction
> >
DeConstroy
> >
DeCatastrophic Daydreams
> > Doctor
Drew
> > Draw
Down Dope Deals
> > Dirty
Down Deals
> > Draw
Dirty Deals
> > Dirty
Draw Deals
> > Deal
Dirty Drawers
> >
> >
Discussing Digusting Discussion
as ever,
gypsy davey
> >
> > DR/dbr
>
> You might
add dear dirty drawers to add a Joycean flavor.
> DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:09:12 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote on 2/11/98 11:50 AM
>having been a
>hippie
>a yippee
>and a lover
of beat literature since jr high school,
>i am at a
loss at how to label me.
>any takers?
>individually
yrs,
>mc
goddess
UNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORK
Gregory
Severance || morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<<BULLDOG BREATH>>>
"Severin,
Severin, speak so slightly
Severin, down on
your bended knee
Taste the whip,
in love not given lightly
Taste the whip,
now bleed [I like also like 'plead' here-gss] for me"
from "Venus
in Furs" by Lou Reed
on the album _The
Velvet Underground and Nico_ (1967)
UNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORKUNIQUENEWYORK
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:13:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's unpublished writings
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The full text of
each is in the liner notes of the CD. So
far that's it.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:18:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac : et tu, Ginsberg?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Care to enlighten
us to AG's behavior?
On Tue, 10 Feb
1998, jo grant wrote:
> >Other
than not supporting Jan at the 1995 NYU Beat conference, just how was
> >Allen
Ginsberg's treatment of Jan Kerouac so "appauling"?
> >
> >Howard
Park
>
> Hard to
imagine anything more appalling than the way he treated Jack
> Kerouac's
daughter Jan at the 1995 NYU Beat conference. I think his actions
> were not
only unexplainable, they were unforgivable.
>
> Sadly, it
appeared that he choose sides.
>
> After that,
many people who revered him, were never able to listen to him,
> talk to him,
read him, think of him, without thinking of what he did that
> day. I know
people who think about that day and cry.
>
> So sad.
>
> AG broke
hearts that day.
>
> j grant
>
>
>
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:53:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to
Soren Kierkegaard)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Iiiiiiiiiii LIKE
it!!! Ar you doing this with all the letters of the
alphabet, David,
or did "d" just happen to get lucky? This is cool...
Sara Feustle
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Cronopio, cronopio?
> Dear Dirty
Drawers:
>
> > >
Dreadful derangement
> > >
Disorientation
> > >
Divided Darkness
> > >
dimming dementia
> > >
Distant Dreams
> > >
damn damn
> > >
defective decency defecating
> > >
debilitating degredations
> > >
doom
> > >
DOOM
> > >
DoOm
> > >
doOM
> > >
Disorder Decorating Divinity
> > >
Destruction
> > >
Destroy
> > >
DeConstruction
> > >
DeConstroy
> > >
DeCatastrophic Daydreams
> > >
Doctor Drew
> > >
Draw Down Dope Deals
> > >
Dirty Down Deals
> > >
Draw Dirty Deals
> > >
Dirty Draw Deals
> > >
Deal Dirty Drawers
> > >
> > >
Discussing Digusting Discussion
>
> as ever,
> gypsy davey
> > >
> > >
DR/dbr
> >
> > You
might add dear dirty drawers to add a Joycean flavor.
> > DC
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:59 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Marie, why is criticism of the hippie
movement such a big deal?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> wow. you
must be superman, not clark kent. you saw individually and talked
> to
individually each and every of these hundreds of thousands of people?
> goodness, i
don't remember meeting you at any of the shows...
=== I didn't meet
ANY of the hundreds of thousands of Nazis marching in
formation that I
see on old WWII Newsreels, but somehow I don't feel
hypocritical
making generalizations about them. ANY criticism of ANY
group could be
deconstructed and deflected by simply saying "oh, but you
didn't talk to
each one individually..."
I am highly
suspicious of the motives of ANY enormous group of people,
be they on the
left wing, right wing, or off the map.
Y'all need to
stop being so thin-skinned.....I am not the first person
to ever voice
disillusionment with the hippie movement.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland,
kentucky
quack quack moo
quack
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:15:27 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Beat-L Love-In '98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Despite the
mountain of highly opinionated missives I've sent to this
list, I have yet
to actually attack anyone directly and by name. By my
standards, I have
been far more civil than the situation demands. Yet I
am continually
harangued and attacked here by those who simply cannot
BEAR the agony of
seeing something in print that does not agree with,
and reinforce,
their fragile sense of self. Sad, really.
I don't mind the
insults, I eat 'em on Ritz crackers with an olive. It
only convinces me
that my holy mission is just, and that human beings
are so full of
their own preconceptions that ungarbled, unfiltered
communication
between two persons is probably impossible, except maybe
during
sex....perhaps Beat-L should sponsor an Love-In.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Holland -=-
Kentucky.
tape-recording
rice krispies.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:18:31 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi jim: i guess
my sense of parody didn't communicate itself well over the net.
i believe all
those posts were signed 'individually yrs' - i have no labels even
tho many have
tried to label me (thanks goddess no one has tried to libel me as
of yet). thanks
for sharing your appreciation of 'my father's eyes' - weirdly
enough, i am
about to receive those very same 'bilfold photos' in the mail from
his wife.
art imitates
life?
life imitates
art?
who could ever
even try to label?
mc
Jim Main wrote:
> Why put a
label on yourself? You are a free thinking poet who has to say what
> comes
out. Your poem "My Father's
Eyes". Was moving and real. It was
> touching and
up-front. It remindes me of Ginsberg's
"Father Death Blues"
> Another
touching and real poem. I feel that we
should take in what moves us
> and discard
the rest. In my opinion, we should listen to the message and
> forget the
life style, dress, hair, or lack of hair, or any other distraction
> that takes
us away from learning and following our path. Jack had a purpose,
> he lived it
the only way he could. Allen and the
rest of the bunch did the
> same. For me, I listen to the message and try to
grow from it. I don't give
> a shit what
the messenger does, just what he says....J. Main
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:24:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie,
why is criticism of the hippie
movement such a big deal?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
criticism without
knowledge is not true criticism. you base your criticism on
stereotypes and
what all esp. the media, mainstream. i'm just against criticism
that is
foundless, unthinking, and verging on stupidity.
that's all
mc
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> Marie
Countryman wrote:
> >
> > wow.
you must be superman, not clark kent. you saw individually and talked
> > to
individually each and every of these hundreds of thousands of people?
> >
goodness, i don't remember meeting you at any of the shows...
>
> === I didn't
meet ANY of the hundreds of thousands of Nazis marching in
> formation
that I see on old WWII Newsreels, but somehow I don't feel
> hypocritical
making generalizations about them. ANY criticism of ANY
> group could
be deconstructed and deflected by simply saying "oh, but you
> didn't talk
to each one individually..."
>
> I am highly
suspicious of the motives of ANY enormous group of people,
> be they on
the left wing, right wing, or off the map.
>
> Y'all need
to stop being so thin-skinned.....I am not the first person
> to ever
voice disillusionment with the hippie movement.
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland,
kentucky
> quack quack
moo quack
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:41:33 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: "Notes" on Western Lands
Comments: cc:
burke-L <Burke-L@siu.edu>,
kneckerman
<poroi@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>, 0Stine <StineKC@aol.com>,
BEAR <MWBRYANT@aol.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Written on a
School Specialty Supply
Jot-It-Down pad
no date
Western Lands
p.1
Gradually as he
wrote, a disgust for his words accumulated until it
choked him and he
could no longer BEAR to look at his words on a piece
of paper. It was like arsenic {and old lace where i
played teddy
brewster in high
school} or lead {need a good lead paint remover on that
one!), which
slowly builds up in the body until a certain point is
reached and then
... [i identify in a Kenneth Burkean sense with so much
of this including
the ...] he hummed the refrain of Dead Man Blues by
Jelly Roll
Morton.
p.1
which was illegal
but no one bothered him about it.
[sounds like the
public's feeling
about the paradox of state sanctioned murder]
p.1-2
often in morning
he would lie in bed and watch grids of typewritten
words in front of
his eyes that moved and shifted as he tried to read
the words, but he
never could.
(note to self:
wonder where these words came from??? we all know WSB was
a master word
thief. i used to see words on
typewritten pages as early
as high school
before teleprompters were in vogue]
p.2
He thought if he
could just copy these words [note Charles Seeger POP of
Harvard drop-out
Pete Seeger's words of advice: "Plagiarism is basic to
all culture]
down, which were not his own words, he might be able to put
together another
book and then ... and then what?
(and then what?)
(and then what?)
(and then what?)
... sounds like a
good time for a 'nuther River City Reunion though the
last one had a
rather high fatality rate
p.2
handwritten words
. . . and they were all in his handwriting.
[i recall
going to bed
alone once upon a time with Paul Tillich's "The Courage to
Be" and woke
up with the words "THE HURT" written on the cover and it
was not my
handwriting!!!!]
to be continued
... headed down to the Crossroads for nickel coffee
DR
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:03:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Arm
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I agree with Mr.
Holland that I would rather be at a North Beach Coffeehouse
circa 1960 than a
rock concert circa 1967. Beyond that, he
seemed to
contribute
nothing more than a recitation of media driven stereotypes. Here
is some news -
the beats, at the time, got the same stereotypical treatment -
Beats were
supposed to be bongo playing, beret
wearing, unshaven, smelly
slobs who wrote
really bad poetry. Beat women were
always very thin, slept
with any man at
the snap of a finger and had a vocabular consisting of "Daddy-
O",
"groovy" and "cool".
Allen Ginsberg, for one, just hated this stereotype.
Likewise, hippies
were stereotyped as hairy guys with
colorful clothes who
never saw a bath
or shower without running the other way.
Hippie girls were
sort of the same
except that even the hippie guys wanted them to shave thier
armpits
occasionally.
Seriously, ever
look at a high school or college yearbook circa 1945 - 66 or
so? Virtually everyone, especially the men, look
the same - short (but not
shaved) hair, no
facial hair, white shirt, dark tie, dark jacket. Individual
self-expression
was really frowned upon. The beats
cracked open the culture
of
conformity. One could make a case that
"hippies" cracked it so wide open
that they created
another culture of conformity. My
experience is that people
often do appear
the same, subject to stereotypes, on the outside. If one
takes time to get
to know the person inside the stereotypes break down. That
is why it is
silly to condem people as a group. In a
sense, castigating
"hippies"
or any other group is only a short step away from racial or
religious
prejudice.
As for the
Grateful Dead - it does not bother me that everyone does not like
thier music, to
each his own. I am confused, however,
why they seem to
inspire such venom, even hate, by a small group of rather bitter people?
One thing is a
fact: the Grateful Dead sold more live performance tickets than
any other
entertainers in human history. They are
also certainly the most
bootleged
musicians ever. Could they really have
been all that bad?
Howard Park
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:11:29 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beat-L Love-In '98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> my own imho, this kind of shit is sooo
boring, saying i don't like the
> dead,
hippies aren't sincere.
=== Someone asked
the list, "do you think the Beats and Deadheads are
closely
related?".....I gave my opinion and explained why. Many others
haven't even
bothered to explain their position in any detail, they just
bark like nervous
chihuahuas. It sounds to me as if you're saying "if
you can't say
anything nice, don't say anything at all", which is
baloney with a
capital loney.
And I never said
"hippies aren't sincere".
If these
discussions were in person rather than over impersonal e-mails,
I would hope things
would not be so grrrrr grrrr arf grrrrr......while
everyone seems to
be getting veins popping out on their heads and
frothing at the
face like angry villagers on a rabies-induced crusade to
kill
Frankenstein's monster, I am actually quite placid and just
partaking in
seekerly discourse, though it may seem to the viewers at
home that my
words are said with venom and bitters.....if we were
sitting around in
my coffee house/bunker of creeps, I would hope peoples
would see that
even my harshest opinions are stated in a mellow spirit
of
oop-bop-sh-bam.
And yes, this is
an invitation.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
js holland
commonwealth = ky
try our delicious
pie
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:30:07 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Marie,why is criticism of the hippie
movement such a big deal?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> criticism
without knowledge is not true criticism.
=== ah, and that
which we disagree with we accuse of being "without
knowledge"......I
see how the game works now.
> you base
your criticism on
> stereotypes
and what all esp. the media, mainstream.
=== No, I base my
criticism on my own experiences. My experiences were
not the same as
yours, I guess.
I never dreamed
in a million years that so many people on a Beat list
would rise up in
offense, "oh, that mean crank, he's saying the hippie
movement was a
failure!!! How DARE he??" ...... maybe y'all should go
back and give
"Won't Get Fooled Again" another listen.
I am so sick of
discussing hippies, in fact, that we really oughta let
this thread drop
like an overripe grapefruit right now. Let. It. Come.
Down.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Rev. Jeffrey
Scott Holland - Berea,KY
licensed
practitioner, Appalachian Voodoo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:23:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan K and AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sorry to do this
but I'd like to know...I never heard about this..
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, James Stauffer wrote:
> AG is not
hear to defend himself, but Mr. Grant the the Nicosia fraternity
will
> be
> delighted to
explain this--I hear the quiet sound of a can of worms reopening.
>
> JS
>
> Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
> > Care to
enlighten us to AG's behavior?
> >
> >
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:48:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Main <Mainbooks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To Jo Grant,
regarding J.S. Holland, RIGHT-ON.....J. Main
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:59:46 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
> how many
people here have heard of the rex foundation, bass
> player phil
lesh's brain child, in which broke and avant-garde composers
> receive not
just a check for ten thou in the mail out of the blue, but
also a
> very
specific explanation of just why and how he enjoys the composers'
work,
Just two noble
and fitting recipients of the Dead's financial support in
their autumn
years: Beat author/mentor Herbert Huncke and
painter/ethnologist/musicologist/film-maker
Harry Smith (editor of the
recently
re-released "Anthology of American Folk Music" on Smithsonian
Folkways...an
astounding and ground-breaking collection of obscure American
music from the
1920's and early 30's).
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:15:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Main <Mainbooks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Why put a label
on yourself? You are a free thinking poet who has to say what
comes out. Your poem "My Father's Eyes". Was
moving and real. It was
touching and
up-front. It remindes me of Ginsberg's
"Father Death Blues"
Another touching
and real poem. I feel that we should
take in what moves us
and discard the
rest. In my opinion, we should listen to the message and
forget the life
style, dress, hair, or lack of hair, or any other distraction
that takes us
away from learning and following our path. Jack had a purpose,
he lived it the
only way he could. Allen and the rest of
the bunch did the
same. For me, I listen to the message and try to
grow from it. I don't give
a shit what the
messenger does, just what he says....J. Main
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Juno-Line-Breaks:
10-11,16-20
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:15:25 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Beatniks and Hippies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think an
interesting question is buried somewhere in the
Beat/Dead/Hippie
posts. Having been 10 years old in 1967, I was aware of
the changes and
the "Hippies" but not yet old enough to participate. I
seem to always
understand that the beatniks were somehow connected to the
hippies but was
not sure at the time what the connection was. So I would
like to ask any out
there who were in the middle of this transformation
what their
feelings were. Earth Mother Goddess Marie: I'm especially
interested in
your view since you were into the beats *before* the hippie
movement. Were
you aware of a transformation of the Beats into hippies?
Did it seem like
a logical tranformation at the time, or no
transformation at
all even?
Last night on my
local PBS station they repeated the episode of the
History of Rock
and Roll that focused on Dylan and the Beatles. AG
remarked that
upon hearing Dylan he felt that a torch had been passed
from the Beat
genius to the next generation, and that things were in good
hands. Is this
how others felt as well?
Best to all,
Jim
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to
buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely
free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at
(800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:21:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Steve Edington
<Sedington@AOL.COM>
Subject: Outta Here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Don't want to get
belligerent about this, but if we are going to get into
another round of
the Kerouac Estate Wars, Jan, Gerry, etc. etc. ad nauseaum,
then I'm afraid
I'm outta here...I signed on for a some conversation about
beat lore with
like minded folk.
Steve E.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:11:20 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Robert DeNiro, Sr.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Anyone know where
I might find writings by Robert DeNiro, father of the
actor of the same
name?
Any ideas,
Rinaldo? I noticed you have him included on your Beats
page....
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey the H
coughing up a
lung for the kids to use as a pinata come next dia de los
muertos
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:13:56 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat-L Love-In '98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
> Despite the
mountain of highly opinionated missives I've sent to this
> list, I have
yet to actually attack anyone directly and by name. By my
> standards, I
have been far more civil than the situation demands. Yet I
> am
continually harangued and attacked here by those who simply cannot
> BEAR the
agony of seeing something in print that does not agree with,
> and
reinforce, their fragile sense of self. Sad, really.
>
> I don't mind
the insults, I eat 'em on Ritz crackers with an olive. It
> only
convinces me that my holy mission is just, and that human beings
> are so full
of their own preconceptions that ungarbled, unfiltered
>
communication between two persons is probably impossible, except maybe
> during
sex....perhaps Beat-L should sponsor an Love-In.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Holland -=-
Kentucky.
>
tape-recording rice krispies.
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
my own imho, this kind of shit is sooo
boring, saying i don't like the
dead, hippies
aren't sincere. (let me personally add
that allt frats
rape shop girls
and, methodist preachers do it in the choir box). very
boring very
boring.. here let me post something that will get people
ticked, then get
a long train to nowhere posts going over what i said
rather than what
one of the beats said, then defend my self as a
right
ous person with a right to fee speech because that is
how i really
feel, emphasis on
feel, here. now patricia examines her real feelings,
oh i am
bored. half the world wars and most of
the murders have more to
do with ego and
attention than money.
beat groupie
woman, knowing very well, i am getting what i wanted, yeah
man, i asked for
this, hanging out with these people.
p
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:14:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Jerry Garcia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In terms of both
his Beat connection and his generosity, listmembers might be i
nterested to
learn that Jerry Garcia paid Herber Huncke's rent for a time at th
e Chelsea hotel.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
wheat.mnsfld.edu: [157.62.10.55] didn't use HELO
protocol
X-Sender:
tcaulfie@wheat.mnsfld.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:30:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Thomas Caulfield
<tcaulfie@MNSFLD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat-L Love-In '98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Can you hear the
crickets now. No one wants to play
anymore. We all took
our beats and
went home.
tjc
>Despite the
mountain of highly opinionated missives I've sent to this
>list, I have
yet to actually attack anyone directly and by name. By my
>standards, I
have been far more civil than the situation demands. Yet I
>am
continually harangued and attacked here by those who simply cannot
>BEAR the
agony of seeing something in print that does not agree with,
>and
reinforce, their fragile sense of self. Sad, really.
>
>I don't mind
the insults, I eat 'em on Ritz crackers with an olive. It
>only
convinces me that my holy mission is just, and that human beings
>are so full
of their own preconceptions that ungarbled, unfiltered
>communication
between two persons is probably impossible, except maybe
>during
sex....perhaps Beat-L should sponsor an Love-In.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Holland -=-
Kentucky.
>tape-recording
rice krispies.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:34:38 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan K and AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>AG is not
hear to defend himself, but Mr. Grant the the Nicosia fraternity
>will
> be
>delighted to
explain this--I hear the quiet sound of a can of worms reopening.
>
>JS
>
>Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
>
>> Care to
enlighten us to AG's behavior?
Nancy:
There's a link:
BuddahGate at NYU -
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.html
-
Jan Keroauc asks
for five minutes to talk about her father's literary
archives. Police,
with Allen Ginsberg's approval, throw her out.
J.S.
What's to defend.
The record is clear and was reported on and substantiated
by others than
Gerald Nicosia and Jan Kerouac. I don't think the "Nicosia
fraternity"
has ever been "delighted" going into this issue and since the
facts are
on-line, there'll be no need to gointo it on the Beat List.
It's a painful
issue. I've said nothing that can be considered slanted or
unfair about AG's
behavior that day. Painful yes, but that's all.
I'll add this.If
anyone wants to be on the mailing list to receive
information on
Jan, her Dad's archives,or the memory babe Archive at
U.Mass, Lowell,
send me a note asking that your E-mail address be added for
updates.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:46:22 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> In terms of
both his Beat connection and his generosity, listmembers might be
i
> nterested to
learn that Jerry Garcia paid Herber Huncke's rent for a time at
th
> e Chelsea
hotel.
Huncke touched
everyone.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:00:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In terms of both
his Beat connection and his generosity, listmembers might
>be i
>nterested to
learn that Jerry Garcia paid Herber Huncke's rent for a time
>at th
>e Chelsea
hotel.
For the last two
years of his life.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:01:00 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
mike rice wrote:
>
> I don't
relate to the sixties Dead the Seventies dead
> or any
dead. They are a group which never had a
hit.
> Their music
stunk. Their entire claim to fame was
through
> Kesey and
the Acid Tests. Their stuff is
unlistenable.
> Crapola,
despite Garcia's millions.
>
> Mike Rice
>
I just don't
understand how someone can be SO ignorant.
What is the
basis for these
claims you make. Music is obviously a
subjective
subject, and thus
one's onpinion cannot sum up everyone else's.
You
should check some
musical records, and you may find that what you say
holds no
water. The Dead were extremely well
liked, and had a wealth of
musical talent.
Bar None
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:40:30 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat-L Love-In '98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
Jeffrey S.
Holland,
I agree with you
on this. I made an irrational rebuttle
to the
degrading
statements about the Dead. However, I
did this because I have
a sincere liking
for the band. In short, they were and are
my favorite
musical
group. When somebody irrationaly attacks
the very foundation of
the band's
existence, it somehow irks me.
That is my
justification.
eric
>
> Patricia
Elliott wrote:
> >
> > my own imho, this kind of shit is sooo
boring, saying i don't like the
> > dead,
hippies aren't sincere.
>
> === Someone
asked the list, "do you think the Beats and Deadheads are
> closely
related?".....I gave my opinion and explained why. Many others
> haven't even
bothered to explain their position in any detail, they just
> bark like
nervous chihuahuas. It sounds to me as if you're saying "if
> you can't
say anything nice, don't say anything at all", which is
> baloney with
a capital loney.
>
> And I never
said "hippies aren't sincere".
>
> If these
discussions were in person rather than over impersonal e-mails,
> I would hope
things would not be so grrrrr grrrr arf grrrrr......while
> everyone
seems to be getting veins popping out on their heads and
> frothing at
the face like angry villagers on a rabies-induced crusade to
> kill
Frankenstein's monster, I am actually quite placid and just
> partaking in
seekerly discourse, though it may seem to the viewers at
> home that my
words are said with venom and bitters.....if we were
> sitting
around in my coffee house/bunker of creeps, I would hope peoples
> would see
that even my harshest opinions are stated in a mellow spirit
> of
oop-bop-sh-bam.
>
> And yes,
this is an invitation.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> js holland
> commonwealth
= ky
> try our
delicious pie
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:40:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mojo Risin <Ti418@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's unpublished writings
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i just picked one
up at Borders in the import section. I highly reccomend it.
It has Ginsberg
reciting the first 9 choruses of Brooklyn Bridge Blues,
Burroughs on Old
Western Movies, and others accompanied by music (mostly jazz)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:15:10 -0800
Reply-To: jmaynard@csubak.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Outta Here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I could do
without a resumption of those hostilities as well. OTOH, why not
just ignore the
messages you don't care to read?
Steve Edington
wrote:
> Don't want
to get belligerent about this, but if we are going to get into
> another
round of the Kerouac Estate Wars, Jan, Gerry, etc. etc. ad nauseaum,
> then I'm
afraid I'm outta here...I signed on for a some conversation about
> beat lore
with like minded folk.
> Steve E.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:44:08 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Avant-garde and the beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Joey Mellott
wrote:
> But what
really interests me is that the line so often quoted by Burroughs
> fans
(Nothing is true; everything is permitted.) was not coined by Burroughs
>
himself. It was one of the slogans Guy
Debord and the Situationist
>
International (SI) used.
=== Actually, it
goes back much farther than that - it really was a
quote from Hassan
I Sabbah, who was not a fictional creation of
Burroughs', but a
real historical figure; Some etymologists think that
the word
"assassin" is derived from his name. Other writers have used
Sabbah in their
writings since Burroughs, including Robert Anton Wilson
and Hakim Bey.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
kentucky, USA
boing
boing
boing
boing
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:19:12 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat-L Love-In '98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 12:40 PM
2/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>
>
>Jeffrey S.
Holland,
>I agree with
you on this. I made an irrational
rebuttle to the
>degrading
statements about the Dead. However, I
did this because I have
>a sincere
liking for the band. In short, they were
and are my favorite
>musical
group. When somebody irrationaly attacks
the very foundation of
>the band's
existence, it somehow irks me.
>That is my
justification.
>eric
This hippy dead
beat thing is interesting.
I tend to agree
with Mike Rice and djroohlsyboy more on this.
But I put no
importance on
it. And I wouldn't express myself in the
same manner per se
anymore.
I think this sort
of thing is a more youngish way to do.
That's why before
I used the term
puerile as in puer: boy. This type of
boyish competition
betwen bands and
groups is very natural. Most kids seem
to define
themselves in
this way. Eric's post about how it irks
him to hear these
sort of apparent
put-downs is a good example of that. If
your group or
favorite is put
down in another's opinion it often becomes like a personal
sting. I remember a story my old buddy told about in
High School some big
bad tough guy
overheard my friend (a big big Dead Head) puting down Jim
Morrison. The big guy looked at him and said
"Don't be saying nothing bad
about Morrison,
man." "Not me, oh no, I wasn't
putting down Morrison," he
quickly
answered. When I was in High school I'll
bet if you said "Led
Zeppelin are
garbage" soemone would respond, "them's fightin' words!"
But I think that
this grows less with age. Mainly because
you realize that
these are
generalizations and there are all sorts of worthwhile people and
things from all
different aspects of life.
I grew up in the
Bay area in the seventies and 80's and the dead to me were
an established
institution as much as Bill Graham presents or the Opera or
what have
you. Just always there. I just never thought their music was
very exciting or
intriguing. In other words boring
(including, and no
offence to Levi
or anyone else, a Touch of Gray--where it must be pointed
out that Jerry
had a lot more than just a touch of gray, hardeehar).
Although one side
of Terrapin station I do remember hearing and enjoying.
But that's an
aesthetic taste.
I think the fun
part about the Dead was the whole scene rather than the
music or the
show.
Here's some real
life conversations circa Orwell's year (1984).
(You have
to keep in mind
the speech is slow New Jersey transplanted to Santa Cruz
Mountains talk
and imagine a dingy basement room [a beatnik pad a la Life
magazine if you
will] with a thre foot high stack of bootleg cassettes in
the
corner--although one cool thing about the Dead is that they did allow
people to bring
in tape recorders and make their own--something quite
commendable)
"Jerry's so
torqued out on heroin, man..."
"Bobby's
such a rockstar..."
"You can
tell what kind of drugs Jerry is on by the color of his shirt. If
he wears a red
T-shirt he's on heroin. If he wears a
black T-shirt he's on
cocaine because
the color will cover up the snot he puts on it when he wipes
his nose..."
"I saw Bobby
in the lobby this morning. I talked to
him. I asked him if he
wanted to go eat
breakfast with us but he said no..."
"I wish I'd
been at those egypt shows. I heard they
were great, but the
music
sucked..."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:22:33 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
here in the ol
time space continuium, things flex and wax
y'got yer beats,
but ya gots their antecedents, too, the romantics,
absenthe
drinkers, symbolists, surrealists an etceteraists
now the young
beats of 1957 were the old hippies of 1967, and the young
hippies of 1967
were the old punks of 1977, and the young punks of 1977
are playing the
oldies circuit
the history of the
second part of this century is anchored in world war
two, and the
beats define a certain kind of thinking and curtulal
movement that
found its fullest expression in those post war years
everythings in
the shadow of the beats, and reflects an aspect of that
culture/thought,
without mirroring it completely
there were other
proto countercultural forces during those years, too,
politics and
civil rights, the biker, surfer and nature boy subcultures
and they all fed
into the mix of the 60s
kerouac hung with
jack elliot, who used to follow woody g around.
young
bobby d dug both
kerouac and woody, as did richard farina, who performed
in the bay area
coffee houses and folk festivals of 1964, as did the
early members of
the the dead, airplane, etc
dark star, st
stephen, the eleven, china cat sunflower...to me thats
beat.....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:43:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to
Soren Kierkegaard)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dissonant
Discotechs Disjunct
JS--no copyright
David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
> Denver
Doldrums #666 (dedicated to Soren Kierkegaard)
> by David B.
Rhaesa
> copyright
2-11-1998 (12:26 a.m. CST)
>
> Dreadful
derangement
>
Disorientation
> Divided
Darkness
> dimming dementia
> Distant
Dreams
> damn damn
> defective
decency defecating
> debilitating
degredations
> doom
> DOOM
> DoOm
> doOM
> Disorder
Decorating Divinity
> Destruction
> Destroy
>
DeConstruction
> DeConstroy
>
DeCatastrophic Daydreams
> Doctor Drew
> Draw Down
Dope Deals
> Dirty Down
Deals
> Draw Dirty
Deals
> Dirty Draw
Deals
> Deal Dirty
Drawers
>
> Discussing
Digusting Discussion
>
> DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:53:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan K and AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> There's
a link: BuddahGate at NYU -
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.html
-
>> Jan
Keroauc asks for five minutes to talk about her father's literary
>>
archives. Police, with Allen Ginsberg's approval, throw her out.
>>
>An insult to
the religion of Buddhism, soiled for a label on such a benign
atrocity...BuddhaGate?
How about Assholegate...P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:12:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Matthew A. Parker"
<MParker113@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-11 15:04:28 EST, you write:
<< I just
don't understand how someone can be SO ignorant. What is the
basis for these claims you make. Music is obviously a subjective
subject, and thus one's onpinion cannot sum up
everyone else's. You
should check some musical records, and you may
find that what you say
holds no water. The Dead were extremely well liked, and had a
wealth of
musical talent.
Bar None
eric >>
amen brotha'
matt
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:28:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to
Soren Kierkegaard)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Divine Desdamonas
--.
Damnable Demoiselles
Dream Drumming
JS
Leon Tabory
wrote:
> And no
Desolation Devil
> to be found
anywhere!
>
> leon
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
> Date:
Tuesday, February 10, 1998 10:48 PM
> Subject: Re:
Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to Soren Kierkegaard)
>
>
>Dissonant Discotechs Disjunct
> >
> >JS--no
copyright
> >
> >David
Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
> >
> >>
Denver Doldrums #666 (dedicated to Soren Kierkegaard)
> >> by
David B. Rhaesa
> >>
copyright 2-11-1998 (12:26 a.m. CST)
> >>
> >>
Dreadful derangement
> >>
Disorientation
> >>
Divided Darkness
> >>
dimming dementia
> >>
Distant Dreams
> >> damn
damn
> >>
defective decency defecating
> >>
debilitating degredations
> >>
doom
> >>
DOOM
> >>
DoOm
> >>
doOM
> >>
Disorder Decorating Divinity
> >>
Destruction
> >>
Destroy
> >>
DeConstruction
> >>
DeConstroy
> >>
DeCatastrophic Daydreams
> >>
Doctor Drew
> >>
Draw Down Dope Deals
> >>
Dirty Down Deals
> >>
Draw Dirty Deals
> >>
Dirty Draw Deals
> >>
Deal Dirty Drawers
> >>
> >>
Discussing Digusting Discussion
> >>
> >>
DR/dbr
> >
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:29:04 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Matthew A. Parker
wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 98-02-11 15:04:28 EST, you write:
>
> << I
just don't understand how someone can be SO ignorant. What is the
> basis for these claims you make. Music is obviously a subjective
> subject, and thus one's onpinion cannot sum
up everyone else's. You
> should check some musical records, and you
may find that what you say
> holds no water. The Dead were extremely well liked, and had a
wealth of
> musical talent.
> Bar None
> eric >>
> amen brotha'
> matt
Thanks for the
support Matt. The Dead really speak for
themselves, but
it continues to
irk me that people are making baseless claims to their
obscurity and
failure as a musical group. It astounds
me to say the
least.
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:36:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner
<Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Outta Here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
welcome
steve...hey...i want to get a copy of your fine book. don't let all
the trash talk
get you down. just delete it. and go on to the next. there
are some fine
people here. again, welcome and hello.
john j dorfner
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:21:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have just joined up with this
discussion thang, and I would have
to say that the
underlying theme of deadheads and the whole hippe movement
being shallow I
must say that when establishment saw the power in the beat and
later the hippie
(peace and love GOD FORBID!) they
corrupted both
revolutionary and
brilliant movements by turning them into fads.
People seem
to forget that
when OTR came out(My person bible) it was marketed (somewhat)
as a corny
teenage paperback. Some people saw
kerouac and the beats as some
sort of spectacle
and that was the begining of the end.
Let me also add that
if you can't hear
the soul in Jerry's playing I don't know how you can hear it
in Coltrane and
Miles.
Avoi
ding cliches at
all costs and wishing I could sign off witha name like...
Tommy Snark
Matthew T. S.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:24:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: "BuddhaGate"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I saw the bookzen
site on the so-called "buddhagate" and I will not
comment on it as
I dont have an opinion as of yet but I just thought I'd
share with y'all
that Jan Kerouac was born in my hometown! I never knew.
Does anyone know
if she actually lived in Albany? Thanks.
~Nancy
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:24:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan K and AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hey. i must
confess, i know very little of beat lore in relation to all of
you, mostly
because i'm not even legal yet. but i've been interested in it for
ages and this is
the best way i can see to get my daily fix, so i figure that
that qualifies
joining. can anyone tell me exactly what happened at that nyu
thins with jan
and ag? esp jo, who seems to be very strongly touched by it?
thanks.
aerowny
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:31:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: for those who would help...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i've already
checked out the bookzen site, so don't put yourself out in
helping to
enlighten me about the jan/ag situation by sending me there.
thanks.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:32:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the Arm
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I asked my
girlfriend what she thought of the Grateful Dead?
She said she was
grateful they were dead!
Even though it
isn't literally true, I liked her statement.
Mike Rice
At 10:03 AM
2/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>I agree with
Mr. Holland that I would rather be at a North Beach Coffeehouse
>circa 1960
than a rock concert circa 1967. Beyond
that, he seemed to
>contribute
nothing more than a recitation of media driven stereotypes. Here
>is some news
- the beats, at the time, got the same stereotypical treatment -
>Beats were
supposed to be bongo playing, beret
wearing, unshaven, smelly
>slobs who
wrote really bad poetry. Beat women were
always very thin, slept
>with any man
at the snap of a finger and had a vocabular consisting of
"Daddy-
>O",
"groovy" and "cool".
Allen Ginsberg, for one, just hated this
stereotype.
>
>Likewise,
hippies were stereotyped as hairy guys
with colorful clothes who
>never saw a
bath or shower without running the other way.
Hippie girls were
>sort of the
same except that even the hippie guys wanted them to shave thier
>armpits
occasionally.
>
>Seriously,
ever look at a high school or college yearbook circa 1945 - 66 or
>so? Virtually everyone, especially the men, look
the same - short (but not
>shaved) hair,
no facial hair, white shirt, dark tie, dark jacket. Individual
>self-expression
was really frowned upon. The beats
cracked open the culture
>of
conformity. One could make a case that
"hippies" cracked it so wide open
>that they
created another culture of conformity.
My experience is that
people
>often do
appear the same, subject to stereotypes, on the outside. If one
>takes time to
get to know the person inside the stereotypes break down. That
>is why it is
silly to condem people as a group. In a
sense, castigating
>"hippies"
or any other group is only a short step away from racial or
>religious
prejudice.
>
>As for the
Grateful Dead - it does not bother me that everyone does not like
>thier music,
to each his own. I am confused, however,
why they seem to
>inspire
such venom, even hate, by a small group
of rather bitter people?
>One thing is
a fact: the Grateful Dead sold more live performance tickets
than
>any other
entertainers in human history. They are
also certainly the most
>bootleged
musicians ever. Could they really have
been all that bad?
>
>Howard Park
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:35:38 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: If Beat bores you,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reply to message
from pelliott@sunflower.com of Tue, 10 Feb
>
>> >If
these same "bored" listmembers actually had conversations with WSB,
>>
>Kerouac, and Ginsberg, they'd be even more bored - Kerouac's
>>
>inquisitive, probing mind covered vast territories of human thought,
>>
>Ginsberg was given to lofty and academic dissections of such things as
>>
>William Blake, and virtually everything from WSB's mouth was a lecture
>> >in
magick or semantics or pataphysics or dialectics or history. Why do
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> this
true, patricia? :)
>>
>> Diane.
>
>
>Well, I had
many conversations with William and only a few with Allen.
>I certainly
am stunned to hear Williams conversational style described
>as as
lecture. I almost never experienced
that. With me william
>prefered to
either tell a story, or to hear one told.
but to be frank
>whoever had
this experiance with william may be simply relating what
>happened when
they conversed with william. William had
a incredibly
>wide variety
of friends and relationships. i wasn't
in on very many
>boring ones
but i am interested in magic and language and how language
>works on
us, So I just might not of been
bored. i admit that sometimes
>william would
go on and over the same "bit"
he worked things up and
>around. I remember he explained a lot of culinary business to me. He
>knew I loved
to cook and seemed to save food info for me.
He told me
>about 10
times how you could really tell if fish was fresh. I also got
>the most
wonderful lesson one day on caviar. We
bonded on that one.
>this was over
a 4 or 5 year period. Since I only trusted fish if i
>caught it
(Kansas will do this to one) the information about fresh fish
>was of
limited use. I am smart but not a
typical intellect. William
>and i shared
a terrible love for what i call bad books. These are cheap
>books of
first hand accounts of adventure or biographies of different
>types (god we
went through a long period of accounts of doctors and
>surgeons gone
bad) i loved those. I also learned an incredible amount
>about cats,
lemurs, and read all these spy books. I notice i don't read
>the spy books
so i might of enjoyed reading those just to talk about
>them to
william. I am currently trying to convince my cat sue that i am
>the alpha
cat. I do love cats. so maybe i wasn't
the type of person
>that got
lectured to. I think that I would say if
william was tired or
>put upon by
fools he would get a little less graceous.
God he tolerated
>loads of crap
from me. I know that what he wrote is more important than
>his
conversational style. I would quess he used a lot of the
>conversations
on the same subjects to work out things he was writing
>on. I know for a fact he did this when he worked
on the preface to
>queer he
wrote. It was sometimes hard to know him
and to talk to him
>around then
as it was depressing for him and put him in a black mood.
>But boring,
no, not for me.
>patricia
thanks, patricia
:) it's always fun to read your
memories.
Diane.
--
---------------------------This
Space For Rent--------------------------------
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:43:10 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan K and AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aeronwy Thomas
wrote:
>
> hey. i must
confess, i know very little of beat lore in relation to all of
> you, mostly
because i'm not even legal yet. but i've been interested in it for
> ages and
this is the best way i can see to get my daily fix, so i figure that
> that qualifies
joining. can anyone tell me exactly what happened at that nyu
> thins with
jan and ag? esp jo, who seems to be very strongly touched by it?
> thanks.
>
> aerowny
just read the
article on it on the book zen web page.
It will be more
than enough info
to suit your needs i suppose. It is
quite clear and
detailed. I read it last night.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:44:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: does any one talk about beats here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
umm. i just joined because i'm helping to organize
a ginsberg/kerouac class
at my school
(jenn fedor--tread37 posted about this awhile ago), but so far i
haven't found any
information that will valuable. does
anyone discuss
literature here,
or do you just fling pointless insults at each other? (not a
critsism. just a question?)
--ce
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:59:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Robert DeNiro, Sr.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Mr. DeNiro was an
artist I think, not a writer. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:03:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
>
> Yes I was
wrong. Jack Kerouac, throughout his life, authored an extensive
> list of all
the women he fucked and how many times checked next to their
> respective
names.
Now you have my
attention. by any chance, can you give
more of the
general
statistics, My husband really wants to
know. he is yelling
"yes"
in the back
ground. He was especially interested on
any statistics of
when jack was
young, on how many were acts of
desperation sex. He says
he can imagine
desperation sex. Also he wants to know
if jack got more
after he became a
celebrity than before. Bob has a theory that
celebrities get
more. I say it depends on their college
education.
thanks for a
great post.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:04:08 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: why is the three important, poor
ladies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Paul A. Maher
Jr. wrote:
>
>> I
guarantee you that the position the
>> women
were in with the Beats was exactly
>> where
they wanted to be.
have any of these
ladies told you this is true? not the
impression i got
from _minor
characters_.
"Poor"
Diane.
--
---------------------------This
Space For Rent--------------------------------
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:05:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yes I was wrong.
Jack Kerouac, throughout his life, authored an extensive
list of all the
women he fucked and how many times checked next to their
respective names.
In 1957, among a list of some fifteen women whom I will
not mention to
protect their privacy, was Diane DiPrima. (I can mention her
because she had
already disclosed this in her lurid tell-all) He checked
next to her name
that he fucked her once. She can rest secure in the
knowledge that
she fell in somewhere betwen some Parisian girls and some
Arab whores in
Tangiers. That's from K.'s hot list. Not my fabrication. Chew
on that. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:08:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Main <Mainbooks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: does any one talk about beats here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
We just fling
pointless insults at each other.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:09:49 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: does any one talk about beats here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
umm. i just joined because i'm helping to organize
a ginsberg/kerouac
class
> at my school
(jenn fedor--tread37 posted about this awhile ago), but so far i
> haven't
found any information that will valuable.
does anyone discuss
> literature
here, or do you just fling pointless insults at each other? (not a
>
critsism. just a question?)
>
> --ce
You might find a
better way to ask for a favor. But, if
you are looking
for beat
discussion/info, i think you have found the place. Just ask
specific
questions and you will get answers.
Don't be vague, or you
will be ignored.
later
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:11:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
sorry to unload
onto y'all, but i just read howl for the first time. and i'm in
a madcap hitchike
craze. it's one of the greatest poems
i've ever read.
ginsberg
makes you feel
the craze. he rips out your soul and
throws it into the midst of
it all. i can almost feel the benzedrine nights the
psychotic intellectual
madness.
i can hear the man screaming. the violent mix of everything. i can feel the
beat
pulsing like
poe's heart. the roar of a jet screaming
through the neurons. the
vermin the
seething that was the start of the calmer hippy era. wow that's some
powerful shit!
Al
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:55:29 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joey Mellott
<peyotecoyote@IAH.COM>
Subject: Avant-garde and the beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm reading a
fascinating book at the moment called LIPSTICK TRACES. It's
an examination of
how the punk movement was the last in a long delineation
of avant-garde
groups in the 20th century. The beats
are not mentioned, and
I think that is
with good reason. Burroughs seems the
only one of the "holy
three" to
ever get involved with the European avant-garde scene. The beats
were not
avant-garde; they were bohemian. This is
more of a compliment than
it may seem. The avant-garde operates on the idea that
novelty=genius.
This is not
always the case. Pet rocks were novel,
but not the work of a
genius. "Bohemian" has more to do with the
lifestyle of the writer than any
stylistic
quality. Also, unlike the Surrealists or
the Situationists, the
Beats were not a
movement with an identifiable leader, they were a group of
friends, each
with a unique perspective and style
But what really
interests me is that the line so often quoted by Burroughs
fans (Nothing is
true; everything is permitted.) was not coined by Burroughs
himself. It was one of the slogans Guy Debord and the
Situationist
International
(SI) used.
The book is
fascinating. I definitely recommend it
to anyone interested in
literary and art
"movements."
Joey Mellott :
poet, writer, and disgruntled high school student
peyotecoyote@iah.com
"I want God,
I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom,
I want goodness. I want sin." - Aldous Huxley
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:02:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re:
does any one talk about beats here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
CE makes a valid
point...
On Wed, 11 Feb
1998, <Carly Earnshaw> wrote:
> umm. i just joined because i'm helping to organize
a ginsberg/kerouac class
> at my school
(jenn fedor--tread37 posted about this awhile ago), but so far i
> haven't
found any information that will valuable.
does anyone discuss
> literature
here, or do you just fling pointless insults at each other? (not a
>
critsism. just a question?)
>
> --ce
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:32:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Put it this
way...it was the year 1957. His celebrity status was secure that
year. I know of
fifteen women on the list. Some I guess its safe to say have
already written
about these exploits (DiPrima, Johnson), some are miscellaneous
(Arab women in
Tangiers, Parisian women...are whores used out of
desperation?).
The rest I am not at liberty to disclose because of obvious
reasons. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry
David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
podulkca@uwec.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:59:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathrine Podulke
<podulkca@UWEC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's unpublished writings
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 03:40 PM
2/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>i just picked
one up at Borders in the import section. I highly reccomend it.
>It has
Ginsberg reciting the first 9 choruses of Brooklyn Bridge Blues,
>Burroughs on
Old Western Movies, and others accompanied by music (mostly
jazz)
>
>
yes, that's where
I found out about the Brooklyn Bridge Blues and all that.
I was wondering
if they were planning to publish anything off of the cd
separately.
Kat
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:04:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
actually, i did
scream the poem out loud literally in my dorm room. and i hope
i
scared some
people. but anyways, it's good to dive
right into the dark if you
rise
out of it with an
optimists energy. it's good to be
psychotically passionate in
all you do.
Al(ahandro)
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:09:51 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> revolutionary
and brilliant movements by turning them into fads. People seem
> to forget
that when OTR came out(My person bible) it was marketed (somewhat)
> as a corny
teenage paperback. Some people saw
kerouac and the beats as some
Exactly ... the
Beats were as phony as everybody else ... that's why
we love
them. I can't stand musicians or writers
who have to always
keep a
sophisticated cool distance from hype ... who won't just loosen
up and have fun
acting stupid.
Some people need
that "cool sophistication" though (and here in New
York they're
always hanging around the Knitting Factory listening
to avant-garde
jazz). And that's fine. But to think the Beats weren't
just as goofy as
the Dead is wrong ... just watch "Pull My Daisy".
> if you can't
hear the soul in Jerry's playing I don't know how you can hear it
> in Coltrane
and Miles.
Agreed! But I guess I should stop talking about the
Dead before
people start
telling me to shut up (if they haven't started
already).
And yes, we do basically
just hurl insults at each other here.
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:10:47 -0800
Reply-To: stain@earthling.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Russell Harrison
<stain@EARTHLING.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and Bowie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Indeed, David
Bowie is a big fan of Burroughs. He has mentioned on
numerous
occasions how the cutup method influenced his lyric-writing
(especially in
his early period, e.g. Ziggy Stardust). Bowie was
featured last
year on a MuchMusic segment that discusses musicians'
favourite books -
he cited the cutup trilogy (as well, a cover of The
Third Mind was
shown during the report)...
Russell Harrison
editor, cybeRhyme
Switch Magazine
Montreal, Quebec
http://www.switchmag.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.57]
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:43:36 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
All right, i know this is going to cause a
bitch-fit out
of some
people...so i better phrase this question
carefully...
first off...i know i'm not liked around here
excep for a
few people...
so i'd just like to say i'm not an asshole, i
just play
one on the
internet...
Who here, on this list, are honest-to-god
beats?
and not just people who study them...who hear
travels on
whims, and lives
hand-to-mouth at times, and doesn't mind
it a bit...
who here steals?...
who has children all over the country?...
who's high right now?...
i'm just curious...
i know the beat culture was not only about
those
things...but damn
it, they DID the shit you guys only
dream about...
who here DOES any of this?...
Who, are the real beats....and who are just
wanna-bes?
-julian
"The Believer is happy, the Doubter is
wise"
-Hungarian
Proverb
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:48:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yep. Howl is definately about seening the shit
going on around you and before
you can do
anything you just have to scream it out ... to a certain extent.
You gotsta move
on from the howlin someday though things get dark and ANGRY
when you dwell on
them!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:49:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
There used to be
a saying among Deadheads , "ain't no time to hate". I'm
sorry that
apparently does not apply to Mr. Rice and his girlfriend. Mike,
besides Jerry
Garcia, what other recent deaths are you grateful for? C'mon,
let the hate
flow...
Howard Park
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:51:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: peyotecoyote
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
peyotecoyote
huh? Cool handle man! There's not shroom in this town for the
both of us! Ha!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:59:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Feedback on ONR - Alternative last capter
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm looking for some feedback on this
alternative last chapter I wrote to On
The Road-
Wise Holy Madmen-
be afraid not to dis my storee yo!
So Dean drove
back to New York and in my fevered haze, I thought I could see
his bony ankle
pushing out of his shoe, leaning on the gas all the way; the
old car rumbling
and sighing but moving for him like I knew it wouldn't for
me. Later I understood that he must have been
afraid of my disillusion in
that fever. He was the ultimate cowboy of experience and
life and I am sure
he could not bear
to see me not understand because he believed we understood
everything and
that knowledge would take care of us. So
I forgave Dean for
leaving me there
in dry Mexico City just as I would have forgiven him if he
left me there to
die.
It was a long time before I had the
energy to be a stranger again and hitch
hike back up to
New York. On a bright, moonlit night
some where in Texas, I
came a cross a
camp fire of old, gray, hobo men and I felt honored when they
made room for me
and shared their whiskey and their stories.
And listening to
the stories of those
men, I realized that maybe we had never found Old Dean
Moriarty, but
where ever he is, he is proud because we found the America he
had searched for
so long. And maybe we had found Dean's
father and he knew
because we found
that spirit of the west I have tried to capture when I write
and sometimes
failed and sometimes not. And beside me
suddenly I saw Dean's
angular chin and
hard warm eyes and we had that American bug so sought after
that we sensed
each other even though he was on the road between New York and
San Francisco and
two disillusioned wives. We sensed each
other in the Texas
night and on the
dusty road and I thanked him for showing me why our fathers'
believed in
America and he grinned yes at me and I knew he would remain young
and all knowing
forever.
-well there it is Thankyou Jack- From Matthew T. S.
"Possesion
is the motivation that has hang up this goddamn nation! Looks like
we always end up
in a rut! Every body now... Tryin' to make it real compared
to What!"
-Les Mcaan
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:08:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Kerouac Worked In a Gay Bar!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yes, Jack Kerouac,
after leaving Edie Parker in Detroit went to New York for
some work. He was
living on the campus there in 1944. One job he took for a
day or two was
the Beggar's Bar which was a prominent gay bar (it no longer
exists). Kerouac,
in a note to Edie, said he left the job at the bar because
he was being hit
on by too many guys! So much for al those ponderances if
Kerouac was gay
or not. There are many straight men who do indeed have some
gay encounters
but it no more makes them gay than having a beer or two makes
you an alcoholic.
Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly.....
>
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:11:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Dick's Picks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
All those undead unbeleivers out there- I
ask you one favor- do a bong load
with Dick's Picks
volume 1 on the stereo. Hear Jerry's
mind note:
INNOVATION!!
Basically, the
deal with music is, when you start thinking about the effort
that's getting
put into it you're gonna respect it a WHOLE lot more. If you
forget the soul
that Coltrane's blowin' you may as well label him a bar fly.
You get what I'm
sayin' here-
It applies to any
genre- football even (GOD FORBID)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:12:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Albert Min wrote:
> sorry to
unload onto y'all, but i just read howl for the first time. and
i'm in
> a madcap
hitchike craze. it's one of the greatest
poems i've ever read.
> ginsberg
> makes you
feel the craze. he rips out your soul
and throws it into the
midst of
> it all. i can almost feel the benzedrine nights the
psychotic
intellectual
> madness.
> i can hear the man screaming. the violent mix of everything. i can
feel the
> beat
> pulsing like
poe's heart. the roar of a jet screaming
through the
neurons. the
> vermin the
seething that was the start of the calmer hippy era. wow
that's some
> powerful
shit!
How refreshing to
read a post like this. Albert's
enthusiasm is positively
invigorating.
There's nothing like someone reveling in the personal
discovery of
something you have loved for years to renew your own deep
feelings. Thank you, Albert.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:13:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I could not agree
with you more,Matt. That's the power of captialism.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:23:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no maybe
you should join the Arm
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I don't think my
earlier message got through but here goes: Mike you are
wrong!! The dead
did have a hit. In 1987 a touch of gray charted at no.9
on the billboard
charts. Don't criticize without getting your facts
straight.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:30:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Re: beatniks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey i'm still
here! i'm always awake at all hours.
Al(acrity)
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:37:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
True beats never
sleep at normal times. All humans, beats
or not, sleep at some
point.
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
abamzvbh@pop.flash.net
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:44:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: adam zerbinopoulos
<abamzvbh@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Julian...
i don't mean to
be mean or anything, it's just that your post seemed rather
pre-emptively antagonistic. maybe if you tried approaching people with a
little more
mellow attitude you would get more positive feedback. i say
this with all
possible humility & kindness.
i'm not sure
anyone who owns a computer & has regular enough access to it &
the internet to
belong to a listserv really lives handtomouth all that
often, if ever.
>they DID the
shit you guys only dream about...
>who here DOES
any of this?...
can i assume from
this that you are now lighitng up, and poor, and on a
spiritual quest,
and posting from various computers around the country?
the use of 'you
guys' seems to imply this...
> Who, are the
real beats....and who are just wanna-bes?
beat, i feel, is
a state of mind more than any combination of concrete
circumstances... as jack says, a state of
beatification... jesus was
beat, and he was
never high, and certainly didn't steal (though he did
travel
extensively). doestoyevsky was beat,
& many others who don't meet
your criteria,
though the lifestyle is a good indicator i'll admit.
i hope you don't
feel i'm attacking you, i'm just offering another
interpretation...
adam
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:04:01 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does everybody
just sign off this thing at midnight-
that's pretty pathetic
for yous beatniks
YO!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:32:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "POMES, PENNY EACH."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
True Beats never
sleep!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:36:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Damn
straight! We percieve all and die
young! At least we feel young when we
die. You know what I'm jivin at!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:50:11 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's unpublished writings
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Brooklyn Bridge
Blues was published in Some Of The Dharma.
now back to
deleting these little snippy quarrels...
Adrien
Cathrine Podulke
wrote:
>
> yes, that's
where I found out about the Brooklyn Bridge Blues and all that.
> I was
wondering if they were planning to publish anything off of the cd
> separately.
> Kat
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:55:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Put it this
way...it was the year 1957. His celebrity status was secure that
>year. I know
of fifteen women on the list. Some I guess its safe to say have
>already
written about these exploits (DiPrima, Johnson), some are
>miscellaneous
>(Arab women
in Tangiers, Parisian women...are whores used out of
>desperation?).
The rest I am not at liberty to disclose because of obvious
>reasons. P.
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
If it's a list JK
kept is it in a public library? I'm not
intersted in who
JK made-out with,
but researchers might be interested in seeing it.
In the material
you were looking at did JK ever say that he was fucking
whores, or anyone
out of desperation?
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:57:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>There used to
be a saying among Deadheads , "ain't no time to hate". I'm
>sorry that
apparently does not apply to Mr. Rice and his girlfriend. Mike,
>besides Jerry
Garcia, what other recent deaths are you grateful for? C'mon,
>let the hate
flow...
>
>Howard Park
I read that too,
but I felt he made it clear that it was not said in
seriousness--more
of a play on words.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:59:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
isn't it? i felt
the same way. that poem was my first exposure to any beat
literatuire ever.
it's what's got me hooked for life. =)
aerowny
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:00:03 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Matthew Sorensen
wrote:
>
> Does
everybody just sign off this thing at midnight-
that's pretty pathetic
> for yous
beatniks YO!
i am on until at
least 2 every morning queer boy
i am a real beat
i am high and
drunk right now
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:03:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i have so much
fun just reciting it when i get in a rage (something that
occurs with great
frequency during these angst-ridden teen years, =)). it
makes me feel so
powerful and strong, as if i was drawing strength directly
from him.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:06:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well, i don't
know about true beats. i certainly wouldn't presume to call
myself one. but i
have to say, bleary-eyed, super-stressed teens slaving over
projects and
homwork certainly keep erractic hours.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:08:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats post 2
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
um, why should
you have to be drunk and high to be a real beat? beat is about
thinking,
pjilosophy, the essence of form, not being stoned or trashed off
your ass.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:16:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Dick's Picks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> All those undead unbeleivers out there- I
ask you one favor- do a bong load
>with Dick's
Picks volume 1 on the stereo. Hear
Jerry's mind note:
>INNOVATION!!
>
>Basically,
the deal with music is, when you start thinking about the effort
>that's
getting put into it you're gonna respect it a WHOLE lot more. If you
>forget the
soul that Coltrane's blowin' you may as well label him a bar fly.
>You get what
I'm sayin' here-
>It applies to
any genre- football even (GOD FORBID)
People can say
what they want about the Dead, but almost anywhere you go,
there's a great
bar, club, tavern, a down home type place, that devotes one
night a week to
Dead music. Invariably here's a crowd and people are having
a great time.
It really was a
family affair. All those tape recorders. The spirit of
"Take it and
enjoy it, share it, dig it, danc, pick, sing...do your thing."
The pack of
groupie merchandisers, all those t-shirts, pipes, stuff--the
scene.
I was never a
"Deadhead" but I love the beautiful inlaid dead medal someone
placed on the
dash of my old '66 Volvo. Seeing dead
stickers on cello
cases at the
symphony. Seeing musicians who have broken all the records
having fun...
crowds lovin' em even on nights hey were all fucked up.
what a family.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:20:32 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats post 2/are beats sober
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
cold stone sober,
we
tango across the
dining room
in one take.
mornings, even
beats are straight
til the poached
egg in the little
blue cup from
denmark is cracked.
$90 furnishes the
entire house,
one lamp for a
dollar lights for years.
a cast iron lamp
that sits on the
dining table now
tonight,
sits there now.
On after he is off.
the house
transforms, room by room
mostly with color
from ghastly
granny white to
beat red.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:29:48 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> This whole
thread continues to amaze. Agreed, the
dead were more a religion
> than a band
in some ways, and they weren't my religion, but the crime of
> never having
a hit! Look back over the hit lists of
the last 30 and see how
> many you
want to keep. The Dead were a great live
band that never recorded
> particularly
well. But "Crapola"? There is not accounting for taste. As
> Levi said,
"Touch of Grey" doesn't move you?
Every now and then I will
> happen on
David Gans' radio show and something I have never heard, like a
> cover of
Desolation Row has magic moments in it.
And those moments when the
>
improvisation came together perfectly are what the band was about. And Jerry
> played
guitar like an angel. As for the
Terrapin Station theme park, well, .
> . .that's
a stretch for me, but we'll wait and
see.
JS
> They are a group which never had a hit.
> Their music
stunk. Their entire claim to fame was
through
> Kesey and
the Acid Tests. Their stuff is
unlistenable.
>
>
> Mike Rice
>
> At 07:52 PM
2/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >> I
would much rather be in a beatnik coffee house in 1961, listening to
> >>
poetry and jazz, reading and learning and listening and enjoying art,
> >>
than to be at some Be-In in 1967 or acid-rock festival in 1968, with
> >>
selfish throngs of spoiled, ignorant, painted airheads, drugged-out
> >>
beyond self-control, calling you a Pig if you don't give them a handout,
> >>
doing their own thing at everybody else's expense (totally inimical to
> >> the
"Johnson" credo) giving up attending protest rallies when they
> >>
suddenly weren't fun and games anymore.....and it's only gotten worse in
> >>
modern times. Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, Grateful Dead coffee mugs, key
> >>
chains, t-shirts, stickers, give me a fucking break! This is so far away
> >>
from "On The Road" it's like another planet.
> >
> >That's
all right, you can go off on the Deadheads if you want, we
> >know you
secretly bop to "Touch of Grey" when it comes on the radio,
> >like everybody
else.
> >
> >The one
biggest point I've always wished people would understand
> >about
the Grateful Dead is that even though the straight world
> >can't
stop associating the Dead with 1967 Haight-Ashbury and
> >be-ins
and all that, the 60's thing actually plays a very small
> >role in
Deadhead culture. Their best songs came
out of the
> >early
70's, and these songs (not the 60's music) became the
>
>reportoire for all their shows. And
the Dead were smart enough
> >to leave
Haight-Ashbury in 67 -- J. Scott Holland, maybe the
> >reason
you're so pissed off is that you hung around too long.
> >
> >Just
kidding, J. Scott -- seriously, you've got the best
> >.sig's
I've ever seen ... but how long can you keep it up?
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
> >| Levi
Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
|
> >|
|
> >| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
> >| (the beat literature web site) |
> >|
|
> >| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
> >| (a real book, like on paper) |
> >| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
> >|
|
> >|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
> >|
|
> >|
"Nothing is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
> >| -- Joni
Mitchell |
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:37:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Jan K and AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
AG is not hear to
defend himself, but Mr. Grant the the Nicosia fraternity will
be
delighted to
explain this--I hear the quiet sound of a can of worms reopening.
JS
Nancy B Brodsky
wrote:
> Care to
enlighten us to AG's behavior?
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:43:03 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beatniks and Hippies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jim, i can best
answer this based on events in my life, which began with my
first 'record
player' the little boxes with one small speaker in front and
the inserts to
put into 45s so they wouldn't wobble all around.
in 7th grade i
read on the road
in 7th grade i
was buying every dylan 45 that came out
before i bought
dylan, i bought peter paul and mary - based on hearing 'the
springfield mine
disaster ' :in the town of springfield you don't sleep
easy, down
underground...etc' didn't buy them for their more upbeat tunes.
in 7th grade i
moved from fear of atom bomb disaster (any one remember the
old get under yr
desk and kiss yr ass pose drills?)
to the war on tv
constantly as well as the war in my home
in 7th grade in
my family i had seen enough violence and hatred to turn to
my peers instead
of my family for advice and support
in 7th grade
there were no peers who understood anything i wanted to talk
about
so i knew
alienation at an early age
in 7th grade i
started skipping school
in 8th grade i
chose to write a 'book report' about HOWL and its comentary
on the insanity
of life as we were living it-this resulted in a suspension
for obscentiy, as did my paper on the then named leroy jones
in 8th grade i
saw a centerfold picture (meant to scare) of a tripping
hippie gazing
with wonderment at a naked light bulb\my first thought was, i
need to get ahold
of some of that stuff.
reality sucks, i
wanted to lift the illusion, the veil and see the other
side. without
knowing it at an early age i began to think like a buddhist.
all though my
early years we ate supper watching the horrors of vietnam and
the body counts
- body counts given out like scores at a
football game!
in 8th grade i
started hangin' with vietnam vets who came home not only
disillusioned and
against the war, but with really good drugs.
i went from the
beatest of beat reading and music to alternative highs and
joys of hippy
life.
allen ginsberg
was always there.
and the grateful
dead followed with dark star, st stephen, uncle john's band
and all songs
which in beatitude managed to retain the joy of living in the
midst of the
insanity of the war and raids on cambodia,
hope this helps .
mc
Jim Dimock wrote:
> I think an
interesting question is buried somewhere in the
>
Beat/Dead/Hippie posts. Having been 10 years old in 1967, I was aware of
> the changes
and the "Hippies" but not yet old enough to participate. I
> seem to
always understand that the beatniks were somehow connected to the
> hippies but
was not sure at the time what the connection was. So I would
> like to ask
any out there who were in the middle of this transformation
> what their
feelings were. Earth Mother Goddess Marie: I'm especially
> interested
in your view since you were into the beats *before* the hippie
> movement.
Were you aware of a transformation of the Beats into hippies?
> Did it seem
like a logical tranformation at the time, or no
>
transformation at all even?
>
> Last night
on my local PBS station they repeated the episode of the
> History of
Rock and Roll that focused on Dylan and the Beatles. AG
> remarked
that upon hearing Dylan he felt that a torch had been passed
> from the
Beat genius to the next generation, and that things were in good
> hands. Is
this how others felt as well?
>
> Best to all,
>
> Jim
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
> You don't
need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get
completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno
at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:44:43 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.and@taby.mail.telia.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "thomas.and"
<thomas.and@TABY.MAIL.TELIA.COM>
Subject: quit subscription
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm sorry, but
the beat-l list is totally taking over my computer, and I
have to leave it
(at least until I get a separate e-mail adress...), but
how do I do?
Thanks, Thomas
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:44:57 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
wecome home, al.
mc
Albert Min wrote:
> sorry to
unload onto y'all, but i just read howl for the first time. and i'm
in
> a madcap
hitchike craze. it's one of the greatest
poems i've ever read.
> ginsberg
> makes you feel
the craze. he rips out your soul and
throws it into the midst
of
> it all. i can almost feel the benzedrine nights the
psychotic intellectual
> madness.
> i can hear the man screaming. the violent mix of everything. i can feel the
> beat
> pulsing like
poe's heart. the roar of a jet screaming
through the neurons.
the
> vermin the
seething that was the start of the calmer hippy era. wow that's
some
> powerful
shit!
>
> Al
>
> Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
> http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:50:02 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Avant-garde and the beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i must say, i'm
partial to greil marcus, myself. the art work itself (chosen by
marcus) is worth
the book. also, it follows a pattern that i had written
extensively of,
but never went all the way to a phd: the tracing of the beats
back to antinomianism, thru the transcendentalists to
the beats. he fills in
many of the
missing links. and his book on elvis ain't so bad, either
mc
Joey Mellott
wrote:
> I'm reading
a fascinating book at the moment called LIPSTICK TRACES. It's
> an
examination of how the punk movement was the last in a long delineation
> of
avant-garde groups in the 20th century.
The beats are not mentioned, and
> I think that
is with good reason. Burroughs seems the
only one of the "holy
> three"
to ever get involved with the European avant-garde scene. The beats
> were not
avant-garde; they were bohemian. This is
more of a compliment than
> it may
seem. The avant-garde operates on the
idea that novelty=genius.
> This is not
always the case. Pet rocks were novel,
but not the work of a
> genius. "Bohemian" has more to do with the
lifestyle of the writer than any
> stylistic
quality. Also, unlike the Surrealists or
the Situationists, the
> Beats were
not a movement with an identifiable leader, they were a group of
> friends,
each with a unique perspective and style
>
> But what
really interests me is that the line so often quoted by Burroughs
> fans
(Nothing is true; everything is permitted.) was not coined by Burroughs
>
himself. It was one of the slogans Guy
Debord and the Situationist
>
International (SI) used.
>
> The book is
fascinating. I definitely recommend it
to anyone interested in
> literary and
art "movements."
>
> Joey Mellott
: poet, writer, and disgruntled high school student
>
peyotecoyote@iah.com
> "I want
God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom,
> I want goodness. I want sin." - Aldous Huxley
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:51:19 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aeronwy Thomas
wrote:
>
> well, i
don't know about true beats. i certainly wouldn't presume to call
> myself one.
but i have to say, bleary-eyed, super-stressed teens slaving over
> projects and
homwork certainly keep erractic hours.
>
> aeronwy
fuck you bitch
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:57:22 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Fucking the life out of William:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Believe me
i said
leave me if you
may
deliver your song
my dearest Quebec
when life takes you
over
i will manage
your debt
to believe is to
conquer
you might as well
say
to to kill is to
prosper
in the world of
today
i want to travel
freely
if it takes all
ive got
to leave is to
bewilder
it the destiny of
not
kill me my friend
a bargain will
reap
when lovers are
sinners
we all are deep
within silence
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:07:15 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
have you read any
of joyce johnson? she was with him just before and after he
gained celebrity.
she prefered him before. and her writings are not sexual
exploits: have
you read minor characters? it begins with wonderful exploits of
herself growing
up and becoming attracted to the village, washington square in
particular. her
writings of the time with kerouac are written with well-wrought
descripton and
prose. i know more about her life and the apartment they shared
then any other
aspect of so called sexual celbrity hounding.
have you ever met
joyce johnson? i have, often, as she has a summer cottage up
here in vt.
beware of
sweeping generalizations.
this one woman,
at least, i know of for sure.
and her writing
is excellent. on its own merit
mc
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
> Put it this
way...it was the year 1957. His celebrity status was secure that
> year. I know
of fifteen women on the list. Some I guess its safe to say have
> already
written about these exploits (DiPrima, Johnson), some are
miscellaneous
> (Arab women
in Tangiers, Parisian women...are whores used out of
>
desperation?). The rest I am not at liberty to disclose because of obvious
> reasons. P.
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:10:15 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
levi: "you
the man!" and i'll never tell you to shut up. thanks for this
wonderful
post.
mc
Levi Asher wrote:
> >
revolutionary and brilliant movements by turning them into fads. People
seem
> > to
forget that when OTR came out(My person bible) it was marketed (somewhat)
> > as a
corny teenage paperback. Some people saw
kerouac and the beats as some
>
> Exactly ...
the Beats were as phony as everybody else ... that's why
> we love
them. I can't stand musicians or writers
who have to always
> keep a
sophisticated cool distance from hype ... who won't just loosen
> up and have
fun acting stupid.
>
> Some people
need that "cool sophistication" though (and here in New
> York they're
always hanging around the Knitting Factory listening
> to
avant-garde jazz). And that's fine. But to think the Beats weren't
> just as
goofy as the Dead is wrong ... just watch "Pull My Daisy".
>
> > if you
can't hear the soul in Jerry's playing I don't know how you can hear
it
> > in
Coltrane and Miles.
>
> Agreed! But I guess I should stop talking about the
Dead before
> people start
telling me to shut up (if they haven't started
> already).
>
> And yes, we
do basically just hurl insults at each other here.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> | Levi Asher
= brooklyn@netcom.com
|
> |
|
> | Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
> | (the beat literature web site) |
> |
|
> | "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
> | (a real book, like on paper) |
> | also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
> |
|
> |
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
> | |
> |
"Nothing is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
> | -- Joni
Mitchell |
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:13:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well, julian: i
live hand to mouth ($3.50 left for the rest of the
month, i do
travel about the country, i don't work and i'm high right
now. as for
fathering children, it would be a first for a woman.
but no, i'm not a
beat.
i like the beats.
i like them a
lot.
but no, i don't
consider myself a beat.
individually
yours,
mc
Julian Ruck
wrote:
> All right, i know this is going to cause a
bitch-fit out
> of some
people...so i better phrase this question
> carefully...
>
> first off...i know i'm not liked around here
excep for a
> few
people...
> so i'd just like to say i'm not an asshole, i
just play
> one on the
internet...
>
> Who here, on this list, are honest-to-god
beats?
>
> and not just people who study them...who hear
travels on
> whims, and
lives hand-to-mouth at times, and doesn't mind
> it a bit...
> who here steals?...
> who has children all over the country?...
> who's high right now?...
>
> i'm just curious...
> i know the beat culture was not only about
those
> things...but
damn it, they DID the shit you guys only
> dream
about...
> who here DOES any of this?...
>
> Who, are the real beats....and who are just
wanna-bes?
>
> -julian
>
> "The Believer is happy, the Doubter is
wise"
> -Hungarian
Proverb
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:27:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no maybe
you should join the
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi howard:
'nuthin' left to do but smile smile smile'.....
btw, yr green
automobile story was wonderful.
mc
Howard Park
wrote:
> There used
to be a saying among Deadheads , "ain't no time to hate". I'm
> sorry that
apparently does not apply to Mr. Rice and his girlfriend. Mike,
> besides
Jerry Garcia, what other recent deaths are you grateful for? C'mon,
> let the hate
flow...
>
> Howard Park
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:33:03 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats post 2/are beats sober
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
patricia: you GO
girl!
the word play on
final line is great.
mc
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> cold stone
sober, we
> tango across
the dining room
> in one take.
> mornings,
even beats are straight
> til the
poached egg in the little
> blue cup
from denmark is cracked.
> $90
furnishes the entire house,
> one lamp for
a dollar lights for years.
> a cast iron
lamp that sits on the
> dining table
now tonight,
> sits there
now. On after he is off.
> the house
transforms, room by room
> mostly with
color
> from ghastly
granny white to
> beat red.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:37:16 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
as mr aeronwy did
not leave his post in respond to list mode, i
graciously did it
for him.
why do people on
this list resort so often to meanspirited name calling?
it's really so
sad that many of our recent, and some older, residents
have so small a
vocablulary.
lighten up, let
go of the hate, or at least keep it to yourself.
mc
eric mayhew
wrote:
> Aeronwy
Thomas wrote:
> >
> > well, i
don't know about true beats. i certainly wouldn't presume to
> call
> > myself
one. but i have to say, bleary-eyed, super-stressed teens
> slaving over
> >
projects and homwork certainly keep erractic hours.
> >
> > aeronwy
> fuck you
bitch
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:44:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: an open letter to eric mayhew
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
what kind of a
post was that to mike rice's very respectful post re: the
dead?
how can you count
yrself a deadhead with such venom in yr system?
why does this
insecure name calling continue?
give it up eric.
i can't be the
only one who is sick of your abusive language, one word
swears that
contain absolutely nothing related to the list? i'd like to
give you a spray
can, disconnect yr computer for the day and let you
release your
venom.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:45:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Robert DeNiro, Sr.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:59 PM
2/11/98 -0500, Paul Maher wrote:
>Mr. DeNiro
was an artist I think, not a writer. P.
So was his
mother, if I remember correctly.
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:50:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes,
Hippies/Deadheads no maybe you
should join the
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 10:49 PM
2/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>There used to
be a saying among Deadheads , "ain't no time to hate". I'm
>sorry that
apparently does not apply to Mr. Rice and his girlfriend. Mike,
>besides Jerry
Garcia, what other recent deaths are you grateful for? C'mon,
>let the hate
flow...
>
>Howard Park
>
>Howard, its a
joke, don't get mad, she actually said it, and it was funny,
that's all. I simply passed it on. The remark itself in not exactly correct,
since it refers
to the entire group. It is not about
Garcia, and,
incidentally,
I didn't say it,
she did.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:50:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I read Howl for
the first time the day Ginsberg died. I
thought it was
very good, very funny, and laced with a
lot of
bullshit. My sister said the version she
read that
day contained
footnotes which indicated the poem was about
Ginsberg's mother
and a friend incarcerated in a nuthouse
in upstate New
York. She said she thought it very sad. I
just read the
poem's surface and found it to be the opposite.
I'm guessing that
Ginsberg wanted to have it both ways.
It is a wonderful
poem.
Mike Rice
At 10:12 PM
2/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Albert Min
wrote:
>
>> sorry to
unload onto y'all, but i just read howl for the first time. and
>i'm in
>> a madcap
hitchike craze. it's one of the greatest
poems i've ever read.
>> ginsberg
>> makes
you feel the craze. he rips out your
soul and throws it into the
>midst of
>> it
all. i can almost feel the benzedrine
nights the psychotic
>intellectual
>> madness.
>> i can hear the man screaming. the violent mix of everything. i can
>feel the
>> beat
>> pulsing
like poe's heart. the roar of a jet
screaming through the
>neurons. the
>> vermin
the seething that was the start of the calmer hippy era. wow
>that's some
>> powerful
shit!
>
>How
refreshing to read a post like this.
Albert's enthusiasm is positively
>invigorating.
There's nothing like someone reveling in the personal
>discovery of
something you have loved for years to renew your own deep
>feelings. Thank you, Albert.
>
>Jym
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:51:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no maybe
you should join the Arm
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:23 PM
2/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't think
my earlier message got through but here goes: Mike you are
>wrong!! The
dead did have a hit. In 1987 a touch of gray charted at no.9
>on the billboard
charts. Don't criticize without getting your facts
>straight.
>
>
I stand
corrected, but I've never heard of Touch of Gray.
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:22:37 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Harry Smith
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jym Mooney wrote:
>Just two
noble and fitting recipients of the Dead's financial support in
>their autumn
years: Beat author/mentor Herbert Huncke and
>painter/ethnologist/musicologist/film-maker
Harry Smith (editor of the
>recently
re-released "Anthology of American Folk Music" on Smithsonian
>Folkways...an
astounding and ground-breaking collection of obscure American
>music from
the 1920's and early 30's).
Jym
Dear Jym,
Thanks for
mentioning two of my favorite beat characters in the same
sentence.
Huncke's life and writing of course deserve as much discussion
as we can give
him on this list, but it's a joy to hear Harry Smith's
name invoked.
There's a quick bio of Harry somewhere on the net (try
doing a search
with Alta-Vista). Harry is one of my heroes. I heard Sam
Charters (yes,
Ann's husband) give a talk on Harry's life and work in
Boulder in 1994
at the Allen Ginsberg Conference held at Naropa. Up till
that point I
hadn't put 2 and 2 together but it slowly dawned on me that
I had been
influenced by Harry since I was very young. It was guitarist
John Fahey who
turned me on to the Anthology back in the early eighties.
Sam Charters, who
is a widely-respected first generation blues/jazz
scholar (and, for
the trivia buffs, he produced a Fahey album in the
60s) put it all
together for me in his talk, i.e. he showed me a major
connection
between the Beats and the 50s-60s folk music / bohemian scene
in New York. Sam
Charters produced the reissue of Harry's ANTHOLOGY OF
AMERICAN FOLK
MUSIC, on Folkways, which includes the most comprehensive
and wonderful
liner notes imaginable, as well as a beautifully
reproduced
facsimile of Harry's original enclosed booklet (they matched
the ink and paper
of the original). Then last year I read AMERICAN
MAGUS, which is a
far-out oral biography of Harry Smith - I recommend it
to anyone
interested in the Beats. It's available through Water Row
Books I believe
(www.waterrowbooks.com - tell Jeff at Water Row that
Hasbrouck sent
ya). AMERICAN MAGUS had a huge impact on me, one of those
books like ON THE
ROAD that made me re-examine my entire value system
and ponder my
place on the planet in this odd century. No one was ever
more BEAT than
Harry - except perhaps Huncke. God bless Harry Smith.
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:25:28 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no maybe
you should join the Arm
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
mike rice wrote:
>
> At 11:23 PM
2/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >I don't
think my earlier message got through but here goes: Mike you are
> >wrong!!
The dead did have a hit. In 1987 a touch of gray charted at no.9
> >on the
billboard charts. Don't criticize without getting your facts
>
>straight.
> >
> >
> I stand
corrected, but I've never heard of Touch of Gray.
>
> Mike
you are a fuck
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:40:15 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> James
Stauffer wrote:
> Everyone on
this list has found something in Beat literature that calls
> to them,
that is why we are here. Does that mean
that they have
> adopted a
version of a Beat code for life--whose code would that be,
> anyway? You gonna follow Herbert Huncke or Brother
Antonius or Thomas
> Merton? Burroughs or Gary Snyder? What universalities you can find
> are
spiritual not behavioral or matters of style.
This is the
greatest piece of wisdom that's hit the list all week. And
it is precisely
why discussing Beat literature should take center stage.
The Beats, as we
all do, did the best they could living their lives from
one moment to the
next but their legacy to the world exists in what they
wrote. It is within their writing that one finds the
universality of
human-ness that
transcends all time periods and reaches into the area of
spiritual
knowledge.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:54:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: The Western Lands
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To continue on a
bit further from what David posted yesterday.
On page
3, "So
William Seward Hall sets out to write his way out of death.
Death, he
reflects, is equivalent of a declaration of spiritual
bankruptcy. One must be careful to avoid the crime of
concealing
assets...a
precise inventory will often show the assets are considerable
and that
bankruptcy is not justified. A writer
must be very punctilious
and scrupulous
about his debts."
A lot said in a
very short paragraph. Anyone want to
tackle the concept
of how one writes
their way out of death. What kind of
death: physical,
mental,
spiritual? Perhaps are three. For all the talk lately about
Burroughs destroying
language, here he sets out in perfect simplicity
the thought that
words are powerful enough to provide a way out of death.
"Death is
the equivalent of spiritual bankruptcy."
Now that is a
statement with a
lot of power behind its words. In terms
of writing
one's way out of
death how would you go about listing your assets and
debits to find
that you are in fact not spiritually bankrupt?
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:15:42 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Zoom, oom pow, zorch"
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> as mr
aeronwy did not leave his post in respond to list mode, i
> graciously
did it for him.
=== It wasn't in
"respond to list mode" because he didn't send it to the
list, he sent it
to YOU, off the list. And now you've "graciously" sent
his personal
e-mail to the whole list. That's about as low as crocodile
tits.
And if cowards
hide behind foul mouths, I guess Kerouac, Ginsberg, and
Burroughs are
cowards too.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
berea, kentucky,
zorch
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:27:41 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ignacio Montezuma
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: drugs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Noticed the topic
of drugs has resurfaced several times in recent
posts.....I'd
just like to go on record as saying that drugs are, in my
experience, a
monumental waste of time. Alcohol, chocolate, and sex are
the only drugs I
enjoy. It takes a rare breed of individual who can
handle drugs
properly - WSB was one of them - but most people cannot.
I've left
relationships because all they wanted to do was sit around and
get high all day.
Boring. Life's too short.
Funny how lefties
have now become just as square as the enemy. "Fuck 'em
all, squares on
both sides." - William S.Burroughs
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, ky
Henry Mancini on
the hi-fi
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:44:20 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Retrovirus Jones
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Julian Ruck
wrote:
> Who here, on this list, are honest-to-god
beats?
=== me.
> and not just people who study them...who hear
travels on
> whims, and
lives hand-to-mouth at times, and doesn't mind
> it a bit...
=== I have
hitch-hiked all over the country and gone to other countries
as well,
including Mexico and Japan....I have been homeless many times
in my life, by
choice. I have been a hobo for more years than not.
> who here steals?...
=== Errrm, define
"steal" :) ....in a Robin Hood
sense, of course. As
Ewoks would from
the Empire. I stole a jug of chocolate milk once when I
was close to
dying of starvation in Gainesville, GA in 1985....chugged
the whole thing
in less than a minute and it gave me a trip more
psychedelic than
any drug.
> who has children all over the country?...
=== I probably
do, but no one's alerted me, thankfully.
> who's high right now?...
=== BZZZZNT!! You
lost me. I stopped getting high years ago. I do a lot
of painting, and
the paint fumes get me goofy enough as it is.
> who here DOES any of this?...
=== come down to
my place, the Creeps Outpost, in the woods of Richmond,
Kentucky, and
I'll show ya how we do it. I'll also load you up with more
of my crummy
homemade chapbooks, cassette tapes and art than any sane
human being could
ever have any use for. And I'll hook you up with some
of the local
talent.
>
> Who, are the real beats....and who are just
wanna-bes?
=== I don't
consider "armchair" beats to be unbeat, but I do think the
distinction
should be made between the street poets and the
sit-at-homes.
Ginsberg, by the
way, was pretty much an armchair beat, in my humble
opinion. You
didn't see him slogging through the jungle with WSB.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
Berea, KY -
moooooooooo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:59:06 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Huncke's Uncle
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ha Ha! Toodle oooh!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Albert Min wrote:
>
> hey
folkeydoobeathipyiperies!
>
> i must say
that all of this is great! i scrounge through
all the messages
when
> i
> have the
time and i'm having a blast.
everything. the name calling, the
cras
> remarks,
> the info,
the poems. it's all fantastique! a symphony fantastique! i love
it.
> all a you are great. it's such a laugh, a guffaw, i love the
mix. keep it
up
> folks!
==== I gotta
agree Al! You guys have been great, really!! Let's give 'em
all a hand!! This
is a great, great crowd! I love each and every one of
you as if you
were my very own stuffed animals! Keep it up, folks, and
don't ever
change! I saw the best minds of my generation sitting at
computers!! Dare
to be you cause there's only one you and you're it!! We
got the Beat!!
WA-HOOO!!!!! SURREALIST REVOLUTION!!
JIHAD!!! JIHAD!!!!
ARF!!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
ky......nude in
space
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:15:56 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Huncke's Uncle
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: apology to Marie Countryman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I owes Marie a
big grape apology - - my mail server must be wonky
because I just
now received a big splop of late mail, including
Aeronwy's
"fuck you" post, which I had not received and thus falsely
concluded that he
had only sent it to Marie and that in turn her quoting
it on the list
was lower than crocodile tits but she didn't, and she
isn't, and I
really do like her poetry anyway and had read her stuff
before I even
heard of Beat-L, but I digress.........anyway, apologies
again, get the
wet noodle from its case, I stand prepared.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
voting for my mom
next election
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:13:00 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Bob Smith, insurance agent and
male prostitute"
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Julian Ruck
wrote:
>
> i'm just
wondering if there's any DOERS out there....
=== there's isn't
a week where I'm not putting on a reading or a show
(we've brought
Ginsberg, Vonnegut, Rollins, Laurie Anderson, and many
more to Lexington
in years past, and conned Universities into footing
the bill), or
taking part in a reading, or performing in a bar, or
performing on the
street for spare change, or out hawking my crappy
chapbooks and
tapes, or putting up subversive street literature on the
lampposts, or doing
a radio shift at WRFL-FM Lexington, or doing
surrealist street
performances by The Appalachian Voodoo Ensemble, which
is truly a sight
to behold. I have absolutely no interest in fame or
money, especially
since the entire shithouse is probably going to go up
in flames pretty
soon anyway. I do what I do for the invisible angels
that watch my
every move.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland,
kentucky
don't drink the
fruitopia
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:29:39 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Connie Chung
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Julian Ruck
wrote:
> this summer i'm going around the country
again...this time ongreyhound
> buses...
=== ugh,
scary....I've met a few cool cats on buses, but by and large,
doing the
Greyhound thing is hell....always sitting next to someone with
open boils who's
talking to Allah.....for seven hours straight.....a bus
took off without
me once at a stop and stranded me in Chattanooga,
TN....had to
hitch a ride with a traveling Christian theatre troupe who
put on
reenactments of Biblical events.....fun fun fun.
I always hitch
rides with truck drivers.....it's safer than being in a
car, they're
always bored shitless and glad to have someone to chit-chat
about country
music with, and there's no worry of them raping or killing
you since they're
always in a hurry to get this load of stringbeans to
Utah and they're
taking little white pills and their log book's way
behind.
>
> and if you were serious on your offer to have
me come down...i would
> love to...
=== Like Bob
Barker sez, "come on down!"......the main Creeps Outpost is
at 129 S.1st
Street, Richmond, KY.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
ky, the dark
& bloody ground
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:33:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:55 PM
2/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Put it
this way...it was the year 1957. His celebrity status was secure that
>>year. I
know of fifteen women on the list. Some I guess its safe to say have
>>already
written about these exploits (DiPrima, Johnson), some are
>>miscellaneous
>>(Arab
women in Tangiers, Parisian women...are whores used out of
>>desperation?).
The rest I am not at liberty to disclose because of obvious
>>reasons.
P.
>>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>>
Henry David Thoreau
>
>
>If it's a
list JK kept is it in a public library?
I'm not intersted in who
>JK made-out
with, but researchers might be interested in seeing it.
>
>In the
material you were looking at did JK ever say that he was fucking
>whores, or
anyone out of desperation?
>
>j grant
>
> Yes , your mom. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:34:34 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Connie Chung
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: The true beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Albert Min wrote:
>
> i have to
say that i've learned some of what a beat is and i can feel the
> spirit,
> and that's
just from some ginsberg and kerouac.
=== Try William
Burroughs, Edward Abbey, Charles Bukowski, and the
Unabomber, too.
> i'm only 18
and i plan on
> learnin
> a lil
somethin and getting a degree. ya know
to please and parents and such
and
> such.
=== Don't do it!!
It's a trick!! It's a trap, Boxer, they're taking you
to the
knacker's!! You don't owe nothin', ya gotta get runnin', it's the
best years of
your life they want to steal!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
fish sticks
forever
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:46:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
>
> R. Bentz
Kirby wrote:
> >
> > Was not
Abe Lincoln a sufferer from MD/Bipolar?
> >
>
> A wooden
plaque with the Lincoln Memorial sits on my wall because of
> this
rumour. It is to remind me in hardtimes
that some folks with my
> illness have
amounted to something afterall.
>
> Since the
purchase i have come to the conclusion that the diagnosis is
> less than
certain. It is based on historians
playing psychiatrist or
>
psychiatrists playing historians. I have
to wonder if any one's diaries
> and journals
and collective writings were left open to close scrutiny if
> some form of
diagnosis would not spurt forth. But i
keep him on the
> wall
nonetheless!
>
> > --
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > Bentz
> >
bocelts@scsn.net
> >
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
jack kerouac
plays with
lincoln
logs
between
norwich and
nashua
state trooper
screams
you can't be a
citizen of the world
and jack says
you don't know
jack-taco about anything -
i'm a citizen of
the universe.
d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:56:41 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kleenex <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: reading/doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reading about
hitchhiking is not the same thing as hitchhiking.
Reading about Mexico
is not the same as being there.
Reading about sex
is not the same thing as doing it.
Living
vicariously through the Beat writers' own adventures is good only
if it inspires
you to go out and have some adventures of your own.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S. Holland
k e n t u c k y
now playing:
Blind Boy Fuller
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:15:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-10 20:35:20 EST, you write:
<< Every
man I know has suffered from sexual desperation at one time
or another, with a need that can't be
quelled. Financial desperation
is strictly for the cashless female.
Mike Rice
>>
This is getting
really crass, but has no one ever heard of 'the mercy fuck'?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:54:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: One Version
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm sure I will
pay for this, but I can't resist. I haven't read the
Nicosia version
of events, but I was there at NYU. As I remember, Jan
and Jerry attempted
to interrupt a scheduled symposium chaired by AG. AG
asked the crowd
if they wanted to talk about poetry or the estate and
when the
overwhelming response was "poetry", Jan and Gerry were asked to
leave. Aside from
the "Kerouaco" afficonados and insiders, most of the
real people I
spoke with during that conference didn't know much at all
about this
allegedly huge conspiracy, and even fewer cared. Most people
were there to
have fun and maybe learn something along the way. By the
end of the event,
Jan and Gerry were pretty much a side show.
That's my honest
recollection, not necessarily the truth, but how I saw
it. I submit that
the alleged "true" description posted on the net is
one person's view
and recollection as well. Anyone else there want to
share their
memory?
Seems kind of
sleazy to be slamming AG (who probably thought he was
"safe in
heaven dead") for something that living people cannot even
agree upon. Can't
you see him, Jack, Neal, Bill, and Herbert up there on
their cloud, stoned
silly, having a good laugh at all this?
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:10:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Ha Ha!
Toodle oooh!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hey
folkeydoobeathipyiperies!
i must say that
all of this is great! i scrounge through
all the messages when
i
have the time and
i'm having a blast. everything. the name calling, the cras
remarks,
the info, the
poems. it's all fantastique! a symphony fantastique! i love it.
all a you are great. it's such a laugh, a guffaw, i love the
mix. keep it up
folks!
Al
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:11:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Jan K and AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jo,
I applaud you for
putting the information in an accessible place and providing a
way to keep the
estate wars off the list. The fact that
AG did not take Jan's
side
at the NY affair
is well documented. Also well documented
is the fact that AG
was
in most respects
an amazingly loving man. Maybe his
behavior was out of
character,
maybe he had
reasons. I have no idea.
JS
jo grant wrote:
> >AG is
not hear to defend himself, but Mr. Grant the the Nicosia fraternity
> >will
> > be
>
>delighted to explain this--I hear the quiet sound of a can of worms
reopening.
> >
> >JS
> >
> >Nancy B
Brodsky wrote:
> >
> >>
Care to enlighten us to AG's behavior?
> Nancy:
> There's a
link: BuddahGate at NYU -
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.html
-
> Jan Keroauc
asks for five minutes to talk about her father's literary
> archives.
Police, with Allen Ginsberg's approval, throw her out.
>
> J.S.
>
> What's to
defend. The record is clear and was reported on and substantiated
> by others
than Gerald Nicosia and Jan Kerouac. I don't think the "Nicosia
>
fraternity" has ever been "delighted" going into this issue and
since the
> facts are
on-line, there'll be no need to gointo it on the Beat List.
>
> It's a
painful issue. I've said nothing that can be considered slanted or
> unfair about
AG's behavior that day. Painful yes, but that's all.
>
> I'll add
this.If anyone wants to be on the mailing list to receive
> information
on Jan, her Dad's archives,or the memory babe Archive at
> U.Mass,
Lowell, send me a note asking that your E-mail address be added for
> updates.
>
> j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:18:29 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: banjo-playing nudists anonymous
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beats don't fail me now!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Albert Min wrote:
>
> you can't be
beat. you can be close, you can imitate,
but you can't be beat.
> kerouac,
> ginsberg,
burroughs, etc. etc. were beat.
=== Actually,
Herbert Huncke predated and inspired JK, AG, and WSB. So
if anyone is the
ORIGINAL beat, it's Huncke, not those younsters who
came after him.
WSB has openly said he used to try to imitate Huncke.
Huncke is the
source of the term "Beat". It isn't some sort of private
club that
requires Jack Kerouac's posthumous approval to join.
Anyone is Beat
who says they are. Even if they're not. I'm the Sheik of
Araby if I say I
am. If ya don't believe me, just ask me and I'll tell
ya so.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland
meditating on a
Kiss Golfball
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:47:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: The true beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i have to say
that i've learned some of what a beat is and i can feel the
spirit,
and that's just
from some ginsberg and kerouac. i'm only
18 and i plan on
learnin
a lil somethin
and getting a degree. ya know to please
and parents and such and
such. a friend of mine has dropped out and takin to
the road, but i hope to
experience
that on top of
school. probably hit the road with
nothin but a backpack during
summers
and after school
is all done. one things for sure. i refuse to be stuck in the
conventional
life-style. i've seen the road and i'll
never forget it.
Al
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.136]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:05:38 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Pay attention before getting
self-righteous
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well, i can see you gyus really pay
attention...
did i ever say you had to be stoned to be a
beat?
no...i was just asking who lives their
lifestyle...
i have noticed that far too many people study
them and enjoy reading
about what they
did...but don't DO anything themselves...
and marie c....i have to tell you that you are
one of the people i
respect most on
this list.....to me, you are a beat....
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:21:25 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Burke 's
pollution/purification/redemption trilogy &
advertsing]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
kenneth burke is
my world's counterpart to william seward burroughs.
dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-burke-l@SIU.EDU>
Received: from
saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu [131.230.252.17])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
ESMTP id IAA16597
for <race@MIDUSA.NET>; Thu, 12
Feb 1998 08:46:50 -0600 (CST)
Received: from
saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu [131.230.252.17]) by
saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
ESMTP id IAA45634; Thu, 12 Feb
1998 08:38:55 -0600 (CST)
Received: from
SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with spool id
937798 for BURKE-L@SIU.EDU; Thu, 12
Feb 1998 08:38:31 -0600
Received: from
siu.edu (ws0009.english.siu.edu [131.230.145.9]) by
saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB
8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA48716 for
<BURKE-L@SIU.EDU>; Thu, 12 Feb
1998 08:38:27 -0600 (CST)
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.03 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Message-ID: <34E30944.1A3F6D6A@siu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:37:56 -0600
Reply-To: Kenneth
Burke Discussion List <BURKE-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: Kenneth
Burke Discussion List <BURKE-L@SIU.EDU>
From: David
Blakesley <dblake@SIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burke 's
pollution/purification/redemption trilogy &
advertsing
To:
BURKE-L@SIU.EDU
Burke-lers--
FYI, a version of
the poster Dina refers to can be found on the Burke-L website
at
http://www.siu.edu/departments/english/acadareas/rhetcomp/burke/human/index.html
Jerry Ross
captured the image from the Chapin interview with KB, converted it to
an
imagemap, and has
written a good overview of his reading of Burke's "Definition
of Human"
to accompany it.
Can't miss a
chance to plug our website!
Dave Blakesley
Dina Stevenson
wrote:
[snip]
> I have a
photocopy of a poster of KBs "Definition of Man" (from his
> kitchen
--given to me by his daughter-in-law) which, to me, is a puzzle to
> which p/p/r
is the answer. I love that little
verse. I know he changed it
> at some
point, but I like the version that appears in
>
_Language_as_Symbolic_Action_ .
--
******************************************************
David Blakesley
Director of Writing
Studies
Associate
Professor of English
Southern Illinois
University, Carbondale
Visit the virtual
Burkeian parlor, home of Burke-L, at
http://www.siu.edu/departments/english/acadareas/rhetcomp/burke/index.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.136]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:26:57 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ha Ha! Toodle oooh!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
*small bow...*
the world is a
stage, and we are mearly actors...
*g*
i do my best...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.136]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:32:11 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
yes, well, i made my point earlier that
"high doth not a beat make"
this summer i'm going around the country
again...this time ongreyhound
buses...on the
"ameripass"...anyway, my lady love is coming with me...
and if you were serious on your offer to have
me come down...i would
love to...
i have been laughing at your posts for
awhile...
"and man,
you have to laugh..."
-julian ruck
later...
-julian ruck
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:37:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What exactly is a
BEAT? I dont think its a definable thing, its more of a
state of mind and
a way of life, I think. I also think that it has nothing
to do with
stealing and fathering children and getting high...
If it does, then
count me out because all I do is write...
Of course, I
would never presume to call myself a beat, anyway. I defy
labels...
~Nancy
On Thu, 12
Feb 1998,
Retrovirus Jones wrote:
> Julian Ruck
wrote:
>
> > Who here, on this list, are honest-to-god
beats?
>
> === me.
>
>
>
> > and not just people who study them...who hear
travels on
> > whims,
and lives hand-to-mouth at times, and doesn't mind
> > it a
bit...
>
> === I have
hitch-hiked all over the country and gone to other countries
> as well,
including Mexico and Japan....I have been homeless many times
> in my life,
by choice. I have been a hobo for more years than not.
>
>
>
>
> > who here steals?...
>
> === Errrm,
define "steal" :) ....in a
Robin Hood sense, of course. As
> Ewoks would
from the Empire. I stole a jug of chocolate milk once when I
> was close to
dying of starvation in Gainesville, GA in 1985....chugged
> the whole
thing in less than a minute and it gave me a trip more
> psychedelic
than any drug.
>
>
>
>
> > who has children all over the country?...
>
> === I
probably do, but no one's alerted me, thankfully.
>
>
>
>
> > who's high right now?...
>
> ===
BZZZZNT!! You lost me. I stopped getting high years ago. I do a lot
> of painting,
and the paint fumes get me goofy enough as it is.
>
>
>
>
> > who here DOES any of this?...
>
> === come
down to my place, the Creeps Outpost, in the woods of Richmond,
> Kentucky,
and I'll show ya how we do it. I'll also load you up with more
> of my crummy
homemade chapbooks, cassette tapes and art than any sane
> human being
could ever have any use for. And I'll hook you up with some
> of the local
talent.
>
>
>
> >
> > Who, are the real beats....and who are just
wanna-bes?
>
> === I don't
consider "armchair" beats to be unbeat, but I do think the
> distinction
should be made between the street poets and the
> sit-at-homes.
>
> Ginsberg, by
the way, was pretty much an armchair beat, in my humble
> opinion. You
didn't see him slogging through the jungle with WSB.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland
> Berea, KY -
moooooooooo
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:44:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: question about kerouchat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Did someone
mention that you could access kerouachat thru IRC? Can you
tell me how,
again? Thanks..
~Nancy
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.136]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:51:09 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
nancy said
"what is a BEAT?"
well, to me, beat
is a sort of philosophy, and your personal philosophy
dictates how you
live your life...
i'm not saying we
should be like jack kerouac...or ginsberg...or sony
bono...
i'm just
wondering if there's any DOERS out there....
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Envelope-to:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
X-VMS-To:
IN%"BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:21:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I *REALLY* didn't
want to join this.
BUT -- When I
first joined this list someone told me that reading *is*
doing.
And some of us do
things but share it with the people we live with
daily rather than
blabbing to total strangers..
Mary
(ducking from the
flames as you read..) :)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:26:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
But wha exactly
is "doing"?
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, Julian Ruck wrote:
> nancy said
"what is a BEAT?"
>
>
> well, to me,
beat is a sort of philosophy, and your personal philosophy
> dictates how
you live your life...
>
> i'm not
saying we should be like jack kerouac...or ginsberg...or sony
> bono...
>
> i'm just
wondering if there's any DOERS out there....
> -julian
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.28]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:58:50 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: The true beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
take it from me...you won't regret it...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.28]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:10:29 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
to me, doing is performing some action that
erinches your life, and
affects the area
around you in some way...
ie.
people...things...
i'm not saying that reading isn't doing...but,
there needs to be a
balance...
if you are
enthralled by the idea of hitch-hiking...do it...
if certain drugs
intrigue you...try them...(btw, i don't do drugs
anymore, so i'm
not on crack when i say this...)
when i say DO i mean act upon your
curiousities (sp?)
and first
impulses every once in awhile...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Expiredinmiddle:
true
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:27:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: Beats don't fail me now!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
you can't be
beat. you can be close, you can imitate,
but you can't be beat.
kerouac,
ginsberg,
burroughs, etc. etc. were beat. it was
the specific time frame and
the
environment and
the atmosphere. there were too many
elements acting on all the
real
beats. you can't reinact them now. ala "goonies", "that's their
time, up
there!
this is our time, down here!" you can be beat, but it's not quite exactly
the
same.
don't qualify yourself to anyone elses
qualities.
Al(falpha)
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:01:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Avant-garde and the beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sorry man, I
think that anyone who sell "Pet Rocks" to the masses is a
genius!
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I almost had a
psychic girlfriend
but she dumped me
before we met.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:05:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
Comments: To:
Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I almost had a
psychic girlfriend
but she dumped me
before we met.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Wed, 11 Feb
1998, Julian Ruck wrote:
> All right, i know this is going to cause a
bitch-fit out
> of some
people...so i better phrase this question
> carefully...
>
> first off...i know i'm not liked around here
excep for a
> few
people...
> so i'd just like to say i'm not an asshole, i
just play
> one on the
internet...
>
> Who here, on this list, are honest-to-god
beats?
>
> and not just people who study them...who hear
travels on
> whims, and
lives hand-to-mouth at times, and doesn't mind
> it a bit...
> who here steals?...
> who has children all over the country?...
> who's high right now?...
>
> i'm just curious...
> i know the beat culture was not only about
those
> things...but
damn it, they DID the shit you guys only
> dream
about...
> who here DOES any of this?...
>
> Who, are the real beats....and who are just
wanna-bes?
>
> -julian
>
>
>
>
>
> "The Believer is happy, the Doubter is
wise"
> -Hungarian
Proverb
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:09:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Howl!
Comments: To: Jym
Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
AMEN BROTHER!!!!
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ghandi would've
smacked you in the head!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Wed, 11 Feb
1998, Jym Mooney wrote:
> Albert Min
wrote:
>
> > sorry
to unload onto y'all, but i just read howl for the first time. and
> i'm in
> > a
madcap hitchike craze. it's one of the
greatest poems i've ever read.
> > ginsberg
> > makes
you feel the craze. he rips out your
soul and throws it into the
> midst of
> > it
all. i can almost feel the benzedrine
nights the psychotic
> intellectual
> > madness.
> > i can hear the man screaming. the violent mix of everything. i can
> feel the
> > beat
> > pulsing
like poe's heart. the roar of a jet
screaming through the
>
neurons. the
> > vermin
the seething that was the start of the calmer hippy era. wow
> that's some
> >
powerful shit!
>
> How
refreshing to read a post like this.
Albert's enthusiasm is positively
>
invigorating. There's nothing like someone reveling in the personal
> discovery of
something you have loved for years to renew your own deep
>
feelings. Thank you, Albert.
>
> Jym
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:12:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
No, they just
PASS OUT!!! :-)
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ghandi would've
smacked you in the head!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, POMES, PENNY EACH. wrote:
> True Beats
never sleep!
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:20:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pay attention before getting
self-righteous
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The Beats did
their own thing, do yours and stop fucking worrying about
whether or not
people fit into some brandywash clique!
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ghandi would've
smacked you in the head!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:41:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have met
her..yes. What I meant by mentioning her name is that it's no
secret that she
had intimate relations with Kerouac. She does not mention it
in the sordid
manner of DiPrima but nonetheless it's insinuated. So, that is
why I mentioned
her name as being on the list of Kerouac's conquests. There
are at least 14
other women, DiPrima being one other. next to each name he
has a number
meaning how many times he copulated (to put it lightly.)
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sent-Mail: off
X-Sender-Ip:
149.151.190.53
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:53:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Albert Min
<deadbaby@MAILEXCITE.COM>
Organization:
MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com)
Subject: hooplah!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
howdydoo,
question: what is benzedrine, exactly?
yours falsely,
appreciative al
Free web-based
email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
>From CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l
Thu Feb 12 21:06:39 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Received: from
SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.101 #2) id m0y34u6-0016a3C; Thu,
12 Feb 1998 21:06:38 +0100 (MET)
Received: from
segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.16) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)
with SMTP id <7.918AA7BB@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:06:36
+0100
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8c) with
NJE id 0330 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:06:45
-0500
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 4404; Thu,
12 Feb 1998 14:56:11 -0500
Received: from
acs2.bu.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu,
12 Feb 98 14:56:10 EST
Received: from
localhost (julie36@localhost) by acs2.bu.edu (8.8.5/) with SMTP
id OAA92000; Thu, 12 Feb 1998
14:55:42 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN;
charset=US-ASCII
Message-ID:
<Pine.A32.3.96.980212144305.88666A-100000@acs2.bu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:55:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JULIANA PABON <julie36@BU.EDU>
Comments: To:
banjo-playing nudists anonymous <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In-Reply-To: <34E2FEC0.1327@iclub.org>
so i would say
that beat is living.
something
difficult to find in ANYONE nowadays.
i have yet to
meet a single soul, in my 21 years of life, that finds as
much glory in
just "being" as they do in "planning". i am not one to live
my life in the
future, for the dream that might never be realized, for the
proverbial
plateau that comes with "making it".
and yet i am at
BU, working for my masters, paying off my trip to europe.
as much as we
would all like to claim beathood, we're still stuck in the
same game. our
only solace is that we KNOW that it's a game.
i am a solitary
wanderer in an unfamiliar landscape...but
then again, i
guess that's what's attractive about being "beat" in the
first place.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:00:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: reading/doing--
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Springtimes 'a
comin. We's all gettin a fever for the flavor...
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ghandi would've
smacked you in the head!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Description:
cc:Mail note part
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:27:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Young <Sean.Young@DSW.COM>
Subject: Re: Harry Smith
Comments: To:
jhasbro@tezcat.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John,
Thanks for the post on Harry Smith. I was
at the Ginsberg tribute in
'94 also. I first came across Harry's work
in '93 in Boulder for an
evening tribute to Harry, they showed his
films. Ginsberg, Ed Sanders,
and Anne Waldman performed. It went on
until about 2 in the morning, I
had
been going 35 hours without sleep. The combination of caffeine and
wine and the films of Harry made it a
rather intense experience.
As well as the Anthology, I would
recommend that everyone see his
films. The Early Abstractions are
animations where he painted directly
on the film frame by frame. Mystic Fire
home video has that collection
and "Heaven and Earth Magic"
available. Heaven and Earth Magic is
probably his masterpiece (masterpiece; as
in one masterpiece of his
that is readily available, many of Harry's
works were lost). I hope
more of his films become available,
"Mahogany" for example. Check out
http://www.mysticfire.com/index.htm for
stuff on Harry and The Beats
as well.
For Harry Smith's archive Web site check
out:
http://www.arthouseinc.com/smitharchives/smitharchives.html
I have been reading American Magus. John
is right, it is a revelation.
Peace all,
SDY
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Harry
Smith
Author: jhasbro@tezcat.com at Internet
Date: 2/12/98 9:22 AM
Jym Mooney wrote:
>Just two
noble and fitting recipients of the Dead's financial support in
>their autumn years:
Beat author/mentor Herbert Huncke and
>painter/ethnologist/musicologist/film-maker
Harry Smith (editor of the
>recently
re-released "Anthology of American Folk Music" on Smithsonian
>Folkways...an
astounding and ground-breaking collection of obscure American
>music from
the 1920's and early 30's).
Jym
Dear Jym,
Thanks for
mentioning two of my favorite beat characters in the same
sentence.
Huncke's life and writing of course deserve as much discussion
as we can give
him on this list, but it's a joy to hear Harry Smith's
name invoked.
There's a quick bio of Harry somewhere on the net (try
doing a search
with Alta-Vista). Harry is one of my heroes. I heard Sam
Charters (yes,
Ann's husband) give a talk on Harry's life and work in
Boulder in 1994
at the Allen Ginsberg Conference held at Naropa. Up till
that point I
hadn't put 2 and 2 together but it slowly dawned on me that
I had been
influenced by Harry since I was very young. It was guitarist
John Fahey who
turned me on to the Anthology back in the early eighties.
Sam Charters, who
is a widely-respected first generation blues/jazz
scholar (and, for
the trivia buffs, he produced a Fahey album in the
60s) put it all
together for me in his talk, i.e. he showed me a major
connection between
the Beats and the 50s-60s folk music / bohemian scene
in New York. Sam
Charters produced the reissue of Harry's ANTHOLOGY OF
AMERICAN FOLK
MUSIC, on Folkways, which includes the most comprehensive
and wonderful
liner notes imaginable, as well as a beautifully
reproduced
facsimile of Harry's original enclosed booklet (they matched
the ink and paper
of the original). Then last year I read AMERICAN
MAGUS, which is a
far-out oral biography of Harry Smith - I recommend it
to anyone
interested in the Beats. It's available through Water Row
Books I believe
(www.waterrowbooks.com - tell Jeff at Water Row that
Hasbrouck sent
ya). AMERICAN MAGUS had a huge impact on me, one of those
books like ON THE
ROAD that made me re-examine my entire value system
and ponder my
place on the planet in this odd century. No one was ever
more BEAT than
Harry - except perhaps Huncke. God bless Harry Smith.
-Hasbrouck
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:29:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Steve Edington
<Sedington@AOL.COM>
Subject: Info Request
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Okay, I'm not
outta here. Its just that I didn't want to be sorting through
the latest round
of "Estate Wars" in all the posts. (Doesn't look like its
happened anyway).
BUT THAT'S NOT
WHAT I'M WRITING ABOUT-- Does anybody know if there is a video
documentary
available anywhere on the life, work, etc. of William Burroughs?
I'm looking for
something like Antonelli's "Kerouac", or the program that ran
on PBS last fall
called "The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg." I can't seem
to find anything
comprable to these on WSB. Maybe no such thing exists yet.
Any leads would
be appreciated. Reply through BEAT-L or give me a "direct hit"
at
Sedington@aol.com.
Thanks, Steve E.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:31:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:15 AM
2/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 98-02-10 20:35:20 EST, you write:
>
><<
Every man I know has suffered from sexual desperation at one time
> or another,
with a need that can't be quelled.
Financial desperation
> is strictly
for the cashless female.
>
> Mike Rice
> >>
>This is
getting really crass, but has no one ever heard of 'the mercy fuck'?
>
I'll bite, tell
me about the mercy fuck.
MIke Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:31:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: apology to Marie Countryman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 12:15 PM
2/12/98 +0100, you wrote:
>I owes Marie
a big grape apology - - my mail server must be wonky
>because I
just now received a big splop of late mail, including
>Aeronwy's
"fuck you" post, which I had not received and thus falsely
>concluded
that he had only sent it to Marie and that in turn her quoting
>it on the
list was lower than crocodile tits but she didn't, and she
>isn't, and I
really do like her poetry anyway and had read her stuff
>before I even
heard of Beat-L, but I digress.........anyway, apologies
>again, get
the wet noodle from its case, I stand prepared.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland
>voting for my
mom next election
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
What does Fuck
You mean anyway, and who did Eric direct it
at?
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:49:35 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew James Shelton
<Matthew_Shelton@MAIL.OKBU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>>>
Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM> 02/11/98 09:43PM >>>
Who here, on this
list, are honest-to-god beats?
and not just people who study them...who hear
travels on
whims, and lives
hand-to-mouth at times, and doesn't mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Though they
rushed back and forth across the country on the
slightest
pretext, gathering kicks on the way, their real
journey was
inward." - J.C. Holmes
Jack Kerouac
considered Holmes to be Beat even though he had
settled down and
started a family. Just because someone
doesn't do drugs
or travel around the country doesn't make
them any less
Beat. Beat is all about discovering your
true
self, not about
getting high.
Matt Shelton
matthew_shelton@mail.okbu.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:41:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Melissa Baide <mbaide@WEBER.EDU>
Subject: subscribe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1
http-equiv=Content-Type><TITLE>Mabel</TITLE><BASE
href="file://C:\Program
Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>
<!--
body {
font-family:
Times New Roman;
font-size: 12pt;
color: 993399;
vlink: 660066;
}
-->
</STYLE>
<META
content='"MSHTML 4.71.2016.0"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=#ffccff>
<CENTER><IMG
align=bottom
src="cid:000301bd37f6$8c8ee760$ba5abe89@Melissa.weber.edu"></CENTER>
<P></P>
<DIV>subscribe
mbaide@cc.weber.edu </DIV>
<P></P>
<CENTER><IMG
align=bottom
src="cid:000501bd37f6$8c9fb040$ba5abe89@Melissa.weber.edu"></CENTER></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\subscribe.gif"
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\subscribe1.gif"
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:46:01 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Info Request
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-12 14:29:43 EST, you write:
<< Does
anybody know if there is a video
documentary available anywhere on the life,
work, etc. of William Burroughs?
>>
The documentary
on William Burroughs is titled "Burroughs: The Movie",
directed by
Howard Brookner. Available on video from Water Row Books. $39.95.
Jeffrey
WRB
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:46:32 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> as mr
aeronwy did not leave his post in respond to list mode, i
> graciously
did it for him.
> why do
people on this list resort so often to meanspirited name calling?
>
> it's really
so sad that many of our recent, and some older, residents
> have so
small a vocablulary.
> lighten up,
let go of the hate, or at least keep it to yourself.
> mc
>
> eric mayhew
wrote:
>
> > Aeronwy
Thomas wrote:
> > >
> > >
well, i don't know about true beats. i certainly wouldn't presume to
> > call
> > >
myself one. but i have to say, bleary-eyed, super-stressed teens
> > slaving
over
> > >
projects and homwork certainly keep erractic hours.
> > >
> > >
aeronwy
> > fuck
you bitch
i was drunk,
sorry Aeronwy
i probably
thought it was funny at the time
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:58:32 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "."
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization: the
secret conspiracy to do stuff
Subject: Alison Krauss
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
David Gold wrote:
>
> > To be
honest, Deanna Carter and Allison Krauss are the only female artists I
> > can
really recommend to buy CDs of. But it's
just a coincidence.
>
> Since when
is Allison Krauss country?
=== Alison Krauss
is Bluegrass, and Bluegrass *is* a style of country.
Closer to
original country, in fact, than what country has mutated into
today.
Deana Carter is
the one that I would say "since when is she country??"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - - Berea, KY
listening to
Rutherford & Burnett's "Little Stream of Whiskey"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:59:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: hooplah!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:53 AM
2/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>howdydoo,
>
>question: what is benzedrine, exactly?
>
Benzedrine is a
stimulant drug.
Benzedrine is a
synthetic variant of ephedrine (the chemists tack on another
chemical group),
a naturally occuring substance. There
are a lot of
ephedrine teas
around in health food stores and herbal medicine shops.
Benzedrine is
also called amphetamine (Benzedrine was the drug companies
name for it) and
is a stimulant. It's been used as a
bronchodilator. It is
related to the
more notorious and stronger methamphetamine, a common drug of
abuse that is
also known as speed, gofast, crystal meth, crystal or (in its
base form ) ice.
I think
benzedrine was also used as a diet pill as well.
Benzedrine is
also the same as dexedrine (if I recall correctly--I'll check
to verify this
and correct it if I am wrong). Dexedrine
is called dexedrine
because it is the
dextro-rotatory enantiomer of benzedrine.
That means that
many biologically
active chemicals exist in two forms that are like mirror
images to each
other, but only one form will be biologically active. The
dextrotatory form
(that means it bends plane polarized light to the right as
the opposed to
the left which is the levorotatory form) of benezdrine is the
active form. Examples of this that you probably have heard
of are l-amino
acids like
l-tryptophan or l-dopa the drug that is prescribed for
parkinson's
disease.
These class of
drugs work because they are related to the naturally occuring
neurotransmitters
and hormones adrenalin (aka epinephrine), noradrenaline
(norepinephrine)
and dopamine. They all are based on a
benzene ring (a six
membered aromatic
carbon ring molecule--aromatic being a chemical term
meaning that it
is "flat" or planar. It looks
like a hexagon.) Hence
Benz-edrine from
benz-ene. These compounds are also known as catecholamines
because a benzene
ring with oxygen bonded to it is caled a catechol and
these drugs and
neurotransmitters all contain nitrogen in ammonium form as
well called an
amine group--hence catecholamine.
Most drugs in
this class are stimulants and have various potencies and are
used as
bronchiodilators as well. But what is
interesting is that mescaline
(the active part
of peyote) and the various ecstasy drugs are also
catecholaminergic. But they have a more similar psychological
affect to the
hallucinogenic
drugs such as pscilocin (from mushrooms), DMT or LSD which
are all
indoleamines.
Here is a
paragraph by Solomon Snyder, a researcher at the NIMH who has
studied brain
chemistry for decades, about benzedrine. (I found this
paragraph here
http://www.drugtext.nl/Mirrors/druglibrary/cocaine/amphhis.htm
________
Ephedrine was
discovered by K. K. Chen, who was looking for a substitute for
Adrenalin as an
antiathsmatic. Chen was
curious about
Chinese herbal medicine, in particular ma huang. He and other
Lilly chemists
quickly isolated ephedrine, and
verified that it
widened bronchial passages. Since Adrenalin couldn't be
taken orally, and
had a hell of a side-effect ephedrine
seemed vastly
preferable. The rarity of ma huang quickly sent chemists
scrambling for a
synthetic ephedrine, and sometime in
the 30's, one of
them stumbled on Amphetamine.
Amphetamine was
also a bronchiodilator, and could be inhaled directly,
delivering the
relief within seconds. It was marketed
under the name
Benzedrine and quickly became a legal, over the counter,
recreational
drug.
..from a 1937
Journal of the American Medical Association
"Benzedrine
Tablets were used at the department for Psychology at the
University of
Minnesota to study ... effects on human
thought. It was
found that the substance increased alertness... Apparently,
the effectiveness
of the drug in delaying the onset of
sleep has induced
many University of Minnesota students so seek the drug in
local
Pharmacies."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Envelope-to:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
X-VMS-To:
IN%"BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:01:29 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: hooplah!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hopefully no one
has answered this already. Benzedrine is
an amphetamine.
It used to be
sold over the counter but now is not.
And I don't know if it's
even available.
Yee haw! :)
Mary
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:05:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ray Bremser
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ray Bremser's new
book, The Conquerors, will be available from us in a few
weeks.
Published by
Water Row Press, this is Ray's newest collection of Beat-Jazz
poems
and his first
book in almost twenty years.
In his book, Writings
and Drawings, Bob Dylan mentions Ray Bremser as the best
Beat-Jazz poet,
and, as Beat fans know, Ray's work was highly regarded by
Kerouac,
Ginsberg, and Ferlinghetti. Ray is the author of such Beat poetry
classics as Poems
of Madness and Angel; he's been published in every important
Beat anthology
from the 1960s The Beats edited by
Seymour Krim to The
Portable Beat
Reader edited by Ann Charters.
The Conquerors
will be available to ship March 5th. 64 pgs. Hardcover. $12.95.
There are also 100
numbered copies signed by Ray Bremser, $19.95.
Jeffrey
Water Row Press
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:26:10 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This is so
wonderful, so beautiful, so horrible, so ugly, so real. Only
Howl, Kaddish and
parts of Mexico City Blues and other scattered poems by
Kerouac have ever
made me cry. I've never been pregnant, never had an
abortion, but as
a woman, I can relate. I can feel everything that she so
vividly
described...I think this refutes anyone's perception of Diane
DiPrima as a mere
Beat-groupie or hanger-on. Thanks, Stephanie!
--Sara
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:43:47 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Thomas Van Moortel
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
None
Subject: Re: hooplah!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I seriously doubt
Dexedrine is still available at the pharmacy.
The closest thing
to amphetamines you can get at the pharmacy:
- Captagon (Asta
Medica)
- Catorid
(Boehringer Ingelheim)
In Europe, professors
advise their students to go see a doc and
ask for a
prescription rather than buy shit (speed) on the streets.
I have no idea
whether these two medications are available in the
U.S.A., they are
in Europe and widely used.
--Thomas
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:36:41 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
JSH wrote:
> Ginsberg, by
the way, was pretty much an armchair beat, in my humble
> opinion. You
didn't see him slogging through the jungle with WSB.
Wrong! The guy was a fucking whirlwind his entire
life. He
once helped save
a Mexican village from a volcano eruption.
He was in Prague,
Cuba, South America (in the jungles with WSB),
India, Tangier --
travelled cross country many, many more times
than Kerouac or
Cassady did, hung out with Kesey and Neal
on the Bus *and*
with Leary in Millbrook, went to London to
help start the
60's Beat scene there ... Cherry Valley during
the late 60's ...
founded Naropa school in Boulder Colorado ...
was at Woodstock
95 hanging out with Bob Dylan ... lived in East
Village, NYC up
to the end of his life, visible all over the
place at
bookstores, restaurants and readings, when even people
with more
street-cred like Gregory Corso escaped for quieter
towns upstate ...
Kerouac, though,
was an armchair beat. Not that I mind --
a writer needs an
armchair sometimes.
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com |
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:05:35 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Best of Burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Norene wrote:
> I am
interested in discussing the new Best of Burroughs recordings on
> Mercury. I
am reviewing the 4-CD set for a magazine that is geared
> toward a
pretty young (rock music fan) audience. So, if anybody has
> anything to
say, that'd be real cool.
Holy cow, is this
out now?! I knew it was coming
sometime. Don't get
between me and
the local CD store!
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:14:29 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul Maher wrote:
> >In the
material you were looking at did JK ever say that he was fucking
> >whores,
or anyone out of desperation?
> >
> >j grant
> >
> > Yes , your mom. P.
How can anyone
give any credibility to someone who claims to be a scholar
and yet
consistently resorts to such childish repartee?
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:38:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Jenn Fedor>"
<Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Worked In a Gay Bar!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/12/98 3:52:55 AM, you wrote:
>Kerouac, in a
note to Edie, said he left the job at the bar because
>he was being
hit on by too many guys! So much for al those ponderances if
>Kerouac was
gay or not. There are many straight men who do indeed have some
>gay
encounters but it no more makes them gay than having a beer or two makes
>you an
alcoholic.
i'm not saying
that jack kerouac was gay, but i certainly do not think that
this is any proof
that he was not. it is pretty obvious
that if he was gay,
he was far from
open about it, but just because he wasn't comfortable being
hit on does not
determine his sexuality at all.
pickles,
jenn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:42:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Jenn Fedor>"
<Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beatniks and Hippies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
excellent post,
marie. you made my day.
frying pan shoes,
jenn :o)
In a message
dated 2/12/98 12:47:15 PM, you wrote:
>jim, i can
best answer this based on events in my life, which began with my
>first 'record
player' the little boxes with one small speaker in front and
>the inserts
to put into 45s so they wouldn't wobble all around.
>in 7th grade
i read on the road
>in 7th grade
i was buying every dylan 45 that came out
>before i
bought dylan, i bought peter paul and mary - based on hearing 'the
>springfield
mine disaster ' :in the town of springfield you don't sleep
>easy, down
underground...etc' didn't buy them for their more upbeat tunes.
>in 7th grade
i moved from fear of atom bomb disaster (any one remember the
>old get under
yr desk and kiss yr ass pose drills?)
>to the war on
tv constantly as well as the war in my home
>in 7th grade
in my family i had seen enough violence and hatred to turn to
>my peers
instead of my family for advice and support
>in 7th grade
there were no peers who understood anything i wanted to talk
>about
>so i knew
alienation at an early age
>in 7th grade
i started skipping school
>in 8th grade
i chose to write a 'book report' about HOWL and its comentary
>on the
insanity of life as we were living it-this resulted in a suspension
>for
obscentiy, as did my paper on the then
named leroy jones
>in 8th grade
i saw a centerfold picture (meant to scare) of a tripping
>hippie gazing
with wonderment at a naked light bulb\my first thought was, i
>need to get
ahold of some of that stuff.
>reality
sucks, i wanted to lift the illusion, the veil and see the other
>side. without
knowing it at an early age i began to think like a buddhist.
>all though my
early years we ate supper watching the horrors of vietnam and
>the body
counts - body counts given out like
scores at a football game!
>in 8th grade
i started hangin' with vietnam vets who came home not only
>disillusioned
and against the war, but with really good drugs.
>i went from
the beatest of beat reading and music to alternative highs and
>joys of hippy
life.
>allen
ginsberg was always there.
>and the
grateful dead followed with dark star, st stephen, uncle john's band
>and all songs
which in beatitude managed to retain the joy of living in the
>midst of the
insanity of the war and raids on cambodia,
>hope this
helps .
>mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:45:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Jenn Fedor>"
<Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/12/98 1:16:41 PM, you wrote:
> as for
fathering children, it would be a first for a woman.
>but no, i'm
not a beat.
marie, i thought
it was wonderful that you pointed this out because it was one
of the things
that bugged me most about the post.
while we are trying to put
labels on what a
beat is, tell me, is this toking, hitchhiking, action beat
also required to
have a penis? lets cut the definitions.
dream artichoke,
jenn :o)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:48:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Jenn Fedor>" <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
if you are going
to lend a gracious "fuck you," at least explain beyond that
so we can gain
some insight and get a post worth reading.
sober,
jenn :o)
In a message
dated 2/12/98 1:39:59 PM, you wrote:
>as mr aeronwy
did not leave his post in respond to list mode, i
>graciously
did it for him.
>why do people
on this list resort so often to meanspirited name calling?
>
>it's really
so sad that many of our recent, and some older, residents
>have so small
a vocablulary.
>lighten up,
let go of the hate, or at least keep it to yourself.
>mc
>
>eric mayhew
wrote:
>
>> Aeronwy
Thomas wrote:
>> >
>> >
well, i don't know about true beats. i certainly wouldn't presume to
>> call
>> >
myself one. but i have to say, bleary-eyed, super-stressed teens
>> slaving
over
>> >
projects and homwork certainly keep erractic hours.
>> >
>> >
aeronwy
>> fuck you
bitch
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:53:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Jenn Fedor>"
<Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/12/98 5:10:59 PM, you wrote:
>I always
hitch rides with truck drivers.....it's safer than being in a
>car, they're
always bored shitless and glad to have someone to chit-chat
>about country
music with, and there's no worry of them raping or killing
>you since
they're always in a hurry to get this load of stringbeans to
>Utah and
they're taking little white pills and their log book's way
>behind.
safer for
whom? i'm not condemning you at all, i
am just pointing out that
for a young woman
to travel "on the road" these
days, it isn't as easy or as
safe to hitch
with a bored truck driver. i'd like to
say i could live in the
beat spirit and
just go like that, but i can't help but be wary. it is sad to
me that the world
is this way, and i have to be so paranoid.
tuna,
jenn :o)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:55:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Howl!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-12 01:02:01 EST, you write:
<< isn't
it? i felt the same way. that poem was my first exposure to any beat
literatuire ever. it's what's got me hooked
for life. =)
aerowny >>
Me too. I cried.
It was one of those pieces that left me dazed for hours after
I was finished....
much like I was after reading the super excellent terrific
chapbook
"sweet" by Nicole Blackman (www.nicole-blackman.com go there!!!)
yesterday.
And I first got
interested in Ginsberg after reading about himin Tim Leary's
_Flashbacks_
(which I was doing for a school research project thank you very
much... even
though I'm not into drugs, it was still a whole lot of fun to get
up in front of my
8th grade history class and tell them all how to ensure a
good psychedelic
trip...)
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:57:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Worked In a Gay Bar!
Comments: To:
"<Jenn Fedor>" <Tread37@AOL.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey, if that's
the only evidence you have- GO WITH THAT! Why does it
matter anyway?
Alot of people ask me if he was, (I guess because of some
of his ties with
certain others) but I don't think something so trivial as
that would
deserve an answer.
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ghandi would've
smacked you in the head!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, <Jenn Fedor> wrote:
> In a message
dated 2/12/98 3:52:55 AM, you wrote:
>
> >Kerouac,
in a note to Edie, said he left the job at the bar because
> >he was
being hit on by too many guys! So much for al those ponderances if
> >Kerouac
was gay or not. There are many straight men who do indeed have some
> >gay
encounters but it no more makes them gay than having a beer or two makes
> >you an alcoholic.
>
>
> i'm not
saying that jack kerouac was gay, but i certainly do not think that
> this is any
proof that he was not. it is pretty
obvious that if he was gay,
> he was far
from open about it, but just because he wasn't comfortable being
> hit on does
not determine his sexuality at all.
>
> pickles,
> jenn
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:04:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Beats post 2
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-12 01:10:39 EST, you write:
<< um, why
should you have to be drunk and high to be a real beat? beat is
about
thinking, pjilosophy, the essence of form, not
being stoned or trashed off
your ass.
aeronwy
>>
How about this:
eradicating this "beat" thing from our vocabularly. First of
all the irony
would be great, since this is afterall beat-l, and we could
focus on
individual writers/writings, like everyone complains that we should.
And plus
I hate the word
beat. I hate it. It turns artists into marketing
oppurtunities.
(even though I personally love the iimage of a stoned guy
dressed in black
beating bongos reciting poetry... not as a representation of
any real people..
it's just pretty goofy in a cool way, as a cartoon, you
know?)
And no offense
Julian- but you just seem like someone looking for a head rush,
complete
freedom... which is basicly chaos. But it doesn't seem like you're
looking to be a
"beat" (remember- sal paradise always had to have his aunt
send him money
while he was otr). You strike me more as a gutter punk.Go read
Jessica Hahn's (no
not *that* J. Hahn) mini-book "Transient Ways". It's got
her poetry, short
stories, diary entries written as she crossed the country on
freight trains in
this great squatter's network, having a damn fine time too.
AS far as I can
tell, it was serious.
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:14:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats
Comments: To:
mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
excuse me? why
are you cursing me? i didn't mean to insult you. what on earth
are you thinking?
when i tlked about a super-stressed teen, i was referring to
myself. i think
you'd better not be so hasty to curse people out next time.
god knows there
are hot tempers on the list.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:18:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi. i'd just like
to clear something up: my name is aeronwy thomas. i'm a
sixteen year old
girl, ok? i have a lot of stress on me from school. that's
what i meant when
i said i kept erratic hours. i often have to pull all-
nighters to
finish work and then go to sleep when i come home from school to
catch up. i don't
understand why that other guy said i was a bitch for saying
that.
maire, what did
you mean when you said my post wasn't in form or whatever?
does that mean
people can't answer back to me? i never knew that... why does
that happen? and
thanks for sticking up for me, even if i'm not "mr."
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:19:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message dated
98-02-12 12:13:33 EST, you write:
<< to me, doing is performing some action that
erinches your life, and
affects the area around you in some way...
ie. people...things... >>
Yeah, I'm sorry,
I hate to be no fun, or bitch off on you... And I'm not a
grumpy old
conservative church-going *whatever*... But I have to say:
*****stealing
does not count as doing, when doing is a good and exciting
thing. It's still
wrong, even if you yourself are poor (especially when that's
self imposed).
Now you wouldn't see me hunting down a Jean Valjean. BUt my
father owns a
store and kids shoplift from him all the time- it's a major
problem for him
when he is trying to make some money and live his own life.
****Having
children all over the country who grow up w/ out their father is a
bad thing too,
for obvious reasons, and it should not qualify you for the
holiness you
consider JK to have posessed.
***** And
responding to your very first original post- Why have you "lived"
more than most
people because you're bisexual and once roomed w/ a Wiccan? I
find that to be a
little offensive.
Sorry. That was
all kind of petty and off topic wasn't it? BTW- no Barnes and
Noble store in
the greater Philadelphia area has any Diane DiPrima books.
What's up with
that?
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:20:33 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
James Stauffer
wrote:
>
> > I
really, really tried to sit on my hands and sit this one out--but the last
> > couple
of days of insanely high volumes of pointless chatroom stuff has
> > broken
my resolve.
>
> Everyone on
this list has found something in Beat literature that calls to
> them, that
is why we are here. Does that mean that
they have adopted a
> version of a
Beat code for life--whose code would that be, anyway? You gonna
> follow
Herbert Huncke or Brother Antonius or Thomas Merton? Burroughs or Gary
> Snyder? What universalities you can find are
spiritual not behavioral or
> matters of
style. Labelling movements always
produces some falsity.
> Individuals
and individual writers are all different, and it is the
>
individuality that counts, not the Beat label.
The group that this list
> centered on
flowered in the 40/s and 50's the slowly morphed into other things
> in the later
decades. The world doesn't stay the
same. To try to be in some
> ways beat
now, 50-60 years later is to be a living ananachronism, just as well
> be a DaDaist
or a Transcendentalist. You take what
enriches you from a group
> of writers
and you bring it to your own time, in your own way---But of course
> if some of
you want to try of be 50's beatniks who I am to complain--might be
> a nice touch
of local color in boho neighborhoods, that familiar goateed,
> bereted
figure with his bongo's . . . . Maybe you could do sort of Beat
>
Williamsburg--only black and white TV's, old cars, no computers for sure . . .
>
> JS
>
> > >
Julian Ruck wrote:
> > >
> > >
> Who here, on this list, are
honest-to-god beats?
Man... what crap.
I really have to say that I appreciate this idolatry
of a big part of
MY generation..but really guys you are way out on this
one--hardly
anyone under 50 years of age could even come close to
understanding
"BEAT" without intensive study...its not berets, bongos
and
hitchhiking... what it was was a state of mind that said
"art"-(writing,
painting & music) would or maybe could, change the
world... I dont
now what it is you young types find so attractive about
the Beat
Generation ,but I gotta feeling it aint' what you thought it
was. Read
Ginsberg-he was the best at reflecting his generation. Its
kinda weird that
I don't understand the current generation--so how come
you all think you
knew a previous one you didnt live in? DIG IT?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:21:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: apology to Marie Countryman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
excuse me, but
that fuck you was posted to me in response to my post. i would
never use such
foul language on a public list. and i'm not Mr, but miss.
wanted to clear
that up.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:23:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: apology to Marie Countryman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
eric directed
that at me, though god only knows why. i'm getting really miffed
at it. why should
someone say that to me? i didn't do anything.
aeronwy --->
not mr.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:26:42 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
D. Patrick
Hornberger wrote:
>
> James
Stauffer wrote:
> >
> > > I
really, really tried to sit on my hands and sit this one out--but the
last
> > >
couple of days of insanely high volumes of pointless chatroom stuff has
> > >
broken my resolve.
> >
> >
Everyone on this list has found something in Beat literature that calls to
> > them,
that is why we are here. Does that mean
that they have adopted a
> > version
of a Beat code for life--whose code would that be, anyway? You
gonna
> > follow
Herbert Huncke or Brother Antonius or Thomas Merton? Burroughs or
Gary
> >
Snyder? What universalities you can find
are spiritual not behavioral or
> > matters
of style. Labelling movements always
produces some falsity.
> >
Individuals and individual writers are all different, and it is the
> >
individuality that counts, not the Beat label.
The group that this list
> >
centered on flowered in the 40/s and 50's the slowly morphed into other
things
> > in the
later decades. The world doesn't stay
the same. To try to be in
some
> > ways
beat now, 50-60 years later is to be a living ananachronism, just as
well
> > be a
DaDaist or a Transcendentalist. You take
what enriches you from a
group
> > of
writers and you bring it to your own time, in your own way---But of
course
> > if some
of you want to try of be 50's beatniks who I am to complain--might
be
> > a nice
touch of local color in boho neighborhoods, that familiar goateed,
> > bereted
figure with his bongo's . . . . Maybe you could do sort of Beat
> >
Williamsburg--only black and white TV's, old cars, no computers for sure . .
.
> >
> > JS
> >
> > >
> Julian Ruck wrote:
> > >
>
> > >
> > Who here, on this list, are
honest-to-god beats?
>
> Man... what
crap. I really have to say that I appreciate this idolatry
> of a big
part of MY generation..but really guys you are way out on this
> one--hardly
anyone under 50 years of age could even come close to
>
understanding "BEAT" without intensive study...its not berets, bongos
> and
hitchhiking... what it was was a state of mind that said
>
"art"-(writing, painting & music) would or maybe could, change
the
> world... I
dont now what it is you young types find so attractive about
> the Beat
Generation ,but I gotta feeling it aint' what you thought it
> was. Read
Ginsberg-he was the best at reflecting his generation. Its
> kinda weird
that I don't understand the current generation--so how come
> you all
think you knew a previous one you didnt live in? DIG IT?
this is quite
absurd from the perspective of a "younger person"
I read on the
road when I was 16 and since have been involved in reading
many other forms
of Beat literature
I guess what this
man is saying is that I should only read literature
from my
generation
Oh wait, I don't
like any of it
So I should not
read at all
Tell me what I
should do
I like the Beat
Generation, actually I love it
I might not know
it the way you do, but from what you are saying, you
never read any
Plato, Aristotle, Hume, Dostoyevsky, or anything out of
your generation
because you couldn't relate to it
Take into
consideration the way others may be able to "relate" to the
beats in second
hand ways
beatifically
yours
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:32:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hooplah!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
a drug.. i think
it's classified as a depressant. do you want me to ask my
psych teacher?
she knows.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:55:34 -0800
Reply-To: jmaynard@csubak.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: reading/doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Kleenex wrote:
> Reading about
hitchhiking is not the same thing as hitchhiking.
>
> Reading
about Mexico is not the same as being there.
>
> Reading
about sex is not the same thing as doing it.
>
> Living
vicariously through the Beat writers' own adventures is good only
> if it
inspires you to go out and have some adventures of your own.
>
That mean reading
War and Peace is only good if it inspires me to invade
Russia?
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S. Holland
> k e n t u c
k y
> now playing:
> Blind Boy
Fuller
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:03:37 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I wasn't offended
by your comparison, what REALLY pissed me off was when
someone (I don't
remember who) called her a "Beat Skank." That was just
totally uncalled
for. Had she been a man and had written her sexual
memoirs, people
wouldn't be making such a big deal out of it. Kerouac
boinked a lot of
people, and I don't recall him, or Ginsberg, for that
matter, ever
being refered to as a "skank." --Sara
At 02:19 PM
2/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I wasnt
comparing DiPrima to DesBarres. I jsut commented that the
>description
that someone posted of DiPrima sounded like DesBarres. Sorry
>if I offended
anyone On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Dennis Cardwell wrote:
>
>> In a
message dated 2/15/98 6:05:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>
sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU writes:
>>
>> > .I
think this refutes anyone's perception of Diane
>>
> DiPrima as a mere Beat-groupie or
hanger-on. Thanks, Stephanie!
>>
> --Sara
>> Someone
compared Diane to Pam DesBarres, and I guess by extension was
calling
>> her a
groupie. I don't think of DiPrima as a
groupie. She was
>> there...writing,
reading in coffee houses, and publishing right along
with the
>> rest of
the male beats. She was not a sexual
service station like
DesBarres
>> and the
other groupies and hangers on in the rock world. She was one of
the
>> artists.
>>
>> Suppose, I know something about your sexual
history...if you write
something
>> about
it...you publicize it, as Diane did, I feel a perfect right to
comment
>> on what
you have written...even to the extent of questioning your
veracity. I
>> do not
feel I have a right to say ugly things regarding your physical
>>
appearance, sexual desireability, or to
make suppositions about the
motives
>> of your
lovers, as at least one list member saw fit to do. DiPrima is a
living
>> human
person with children. She, or her
children, may lurk on this list.
>> Dennis
>>
>
>********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>world.--Archimedes*********
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:05:41 -0800
Reply-To: ncashen@klondyke.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: norene cashen
<ncashen@KLONDYKE.NET>
Subject: Best of Burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I am interested in
discussing the new Best of Burroughs recordings on
Mercury. I am
reviewing the 4-CD set for a magazine that is geared
toward a pretty
young (rock music fan) audience. So, if anybody has
anything to say,
that'd be real cool.
N Cashen
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:15:45 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Best of Burroughs
Comments: To:
ncashen@klondyke.net
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Is this a Mouth
Almighty release? I didn't notice anything about
Burroughs at the
Mouth Almighty website, nor the Mercury records page.
Could you please
tell us more about this? What's on it? When is it being
released? There
are a lot of people on the list who would love to know
the details of
this potentially amazing cd set.
I'm surprised the
set isn't being released on Rhino's Word Beat label...
please give us
more info!
It'll divert some
attention away from the spoilsports and killjoys on
the list.
Adrien
norene cashen
wrote:
>
> I am
interested in discussing the new Best of Burroughs recordings on
> Mercury. I
am reviewing the 4-CD set for a magazine that is geared
> toward a
pretty young (rock music fan) audience. So, if anybody has
> anything to
say, that'd be real cool.
>
> N Cashen
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:06:22 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Punk Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Anyone know if or
where one could get a recording of Burroughs's "Bugger
the Queen?"
My interest is piqued!!! --Sara
At 09:05 PM
2/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Bill Gargan
wrote:
>>
>> The problem
with this definition is that it is too inclusive -- it could
just
> as easily
define punk rock.
>
>=== And
that's not necessarily a bad thing. Punk, at one time anyway,
>was not
antithetical to Beat. The Clash were very much an heir-apparent
>to the Beat
lineage, and Allen Ginsberg even performed and recorded with
>them.....WSB
wrote a punk rock song called "Bugger the Queen"....Patti
>Smith bridged
the gap between Beat and Punk rather well......Richard
>Hell, Exene
Cervenka and Henry Rollins have done some writings in a sort
>of post-Beat
molding......
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
>fried chicken
and guinness stout
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:20:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: sigh and ?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
beatl'ers
i havent been
quite the presence i had been here on beat-l as i could no
longer check my
email from work (boy the days are long) and now when i
check my emai i
find...?
very few pearls
VERY few
it is really worth our while
slinging this hash or it is
just in el nino
or what?
a personal aside: mc yr a voice of
wisdom (we WILL twirl to the
dead to gether
YES I AM A DEADHEAD AS WELL as my saintfreinddear marie)
miss ya gal...
yrs
derek
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:40:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
you mention
something about watching "pull my daisy"? is this to say it was
done in some sort
of film format? if so, where could i
find a copy?
--ce
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:59:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats yes, Hippies/Deadheads no maybe
you should join the Arm
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
you'd probably
know it if you heard it. it's one of
those. besides, the
actual phrase
"touch of grey" is only mentioned once since it isn't in the
chorus. the reason it was a hit is because they made
a music video for it
that was reguarly
played on mtv. they weren't commonly on
the charts since
they played away
from the mainstream culture.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:15:21 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: zyprexa blues #134
Comments: cc:
AVERY <donam@asu.edu>, auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>,
attias
<hfspc002@email.csun.edu>, arthur nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>, Al
Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>,
ABILENE
<dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
sea
ewe
lay tur
nocturnal ant
colonists.
DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb
1998 21:17:36 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To:
"RStineman@aol.com" <RStineman@aol.com>,
roDger
<rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>, ROC <kai@informatics.net>,
robert_lay <rlay@onramp.net>,
Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
reynaldo <rgarcia@tacc.org>,
reicherT <ReicherT@nasd.com>,
"rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu" <rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu>,
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"RandyStace@aol.com" <RandyStace@aol.com>,
Randy Lake
<rlake@almaak.usc.edu>, "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>,
"ptrax@midusa.net"
<ptrax@midusa.net>, principal <dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
presbynorthKS
<pby_northern_kansas.parti@pcusa.org>,
phares@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU
Subject: [Fwd:
zyprexa blues #134]
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<34E3BAC9.4A7D@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb
1998 21:15:21 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Beat-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
CC: AVERY
<donam@asu.edu>, auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>, Al Girtz
<agirtz@yahoo.com>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>,
ABILENE <dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: zyprexa
blues #134
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
sea
ewe
lay tur
nocturnal ant
colonists.
DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:18:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: drugs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
this seems to me
a perfect example of how some people on this list tend to
treat beats as
gods. really, if you're going to condemn
drugs, you might as
include the
almightly and mortal beats.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:33:21 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: does any one talk about beats here?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Carly, a point
VERY well taken. there have been a few
great discussions
since i joined
the list, but it seems mostly to have degenerated into drivel
or insults of one
kind or another.
here's a
challenge people - can we have an actual DISCUSSION regarding beat
lit without
digressing and acting like 2 year olds when we don't care for
someone's
opinion?
ciao, sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From: <Carly
Earnshaw> <Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wednesday,
February 11, 1998 5:03 PM
Subject: does any
one talk about beats here?
>umm. i just joined because i'm helping to organize
a ginsberg/kerouac
class
>at my school
(jenn fedor--tread37 posted about this awhile ago), but so far
i
>haven't found
any information that will valuable. does
anyone discuss
>literature
here, or do you just fling pointless insults at each other?
(not a
>critsism. just a question?)
>
>--ce
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:55:16 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Paul Maher
wrote:
>
>> >In
the material you were looking at did JK ever say that he was fucking
>>
>whores, or anyone out of desperation?
>> >
>> >j
grant
>> >
>>
> Yes , your mom. P.
Just to refresh
your memory I will repaeat what I asked you when you posted
information about
the list Jack Kerouac kept of the women he had fucked.
I asked::
>If it's a
list JK kept is it in a public library?
>I'm not
intersted in who JK made-out with,
>but
researchers might be interested in seeing it.
>In the
material you were looking at did JK ever
>say that he
was fucking whores,
>or anyone out
of desperation?
That was a
question about the availability of material that would be of
interest to
researchers.
Your response was
inappropriate.
It was the wrong
thing to say to me Paul Maher, Jr.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:56:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Worked In a Gay Bar!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
good call
jenn!! word up sister!
(if he's our
daddy! where's da phone)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:10:42 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> well,
julian: i live hand to mouth ($3.50 left for the rest of the
> month, i do
travel about the country, i don't work and i'm high right
> now. as for
fathering children, it would be a first for a woman.
> but no, i'm
not a beat.
> i like the
beats.
> i like them
a lot.
> but no, i
don't consider myself a beat.
> individually
yours,
> mc
>
dear marie,
i don't know you,
but you, and a few others are a reason for my staying
oon this list. i
was always a naive believer in kind words, so i find it
very hard to bear
all this futile harsh talk. thanks.
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:51:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For some us,
doing doesnt mean risking our neck. Sure, Im intrigued by
hitchhiking, but
Ive got a modicum of common sense that tells me that
hitchhiking may
not be the best thing for me..same with drugs...
On Thu, 12
Feb 1998, Julian
Ruck wrote:
> to me, doing is performing some action that
erinches your life, and
> affects the
area around you in some way...
> ie.
people...things...
>
> i'm not saying that reading isn't
doing...but, there needs to be a
> balance...
> if you are
enthralled by the idea of hitch-hiking...do it...
>
> if certain
drugs intrigue you...try them...(btw, i don't do drugs
> anymore, so
i'm not on crack when i say this...)
>
> when i say DO i mean act upon your
curiousities (sp?)
> and first
impulses every once in awhile...
> -julian
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:54:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The true beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Im also 18 and in
college and Im having a blast. I love school adn I love
school in NYC.
Its opened up a world of opportunities that I would not
have otherwise...
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Connie Chung wrote:
> Albert Min
wrote:
> >
> > i have
to say that i've learned some of what a beat is and i can feel the
> > spirit,
> > and
that's just from some ginsberg and kerouac.
>
> === Try
William Burroughs, Edward Abbey, Charles Bukowski, and the
> Unabomber,
too.
>
>
>
> > i'm
only 18 and i plan on
> > learnin
> > a lil
somethin and getting a degree. ya know
to please and parents and such
> and
> > such.
>
> === Don't do
it!! It's a trick!! It's a trap, Boxer, they're taking you
> to the
knacker's!! You don't owe nothin', ya gotta get runnin', it's the
> best years
of your life they want to steal!
>
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland
> fish sticks
forever
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:57:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats don't fail me now!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I agree with Al
totally. that time has come and gone and theres no
recapturing it
because its a totally different world for those that are of
this generation.
Doing drugs isnt as easy as it used to be, hitchhiking
isnt the same as
it used to be, nothing is the same. On
Thu, 12 Feb 1998,
Albert Min wrote:
> you can't be
beat. you can be close, you can imitate,
but you can't be beat.
> kerouac,
> ginsberg,
burroughs, etc. etc. were beat. it was
the specific time frame and
> the
> environment
and the atmosphere. there were too many
elements acting on all
the
> real
> beats. you can't reinact them now. ala "goonies", "that's their
time, up
> there!
> this is our time, down here!" you can be beat, but it's not quite exactly
the
> same.
> don't qualify yourself to anyone elses
qualities.
>
> Al(falpha)
>
>
>
> Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>
http://www.mailexcite.com
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:58:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats don't fail me now!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
One other thing:
forget about sex sex sex...theres too many risks now. AG
and JK and all
those people never had to contend with thte fear of AIDS...
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, Albert Min wrote:
> you can't be
beat. you can be close, you can imitate,
but you can't be beat.
> kerouac,
> ginsberg,
burroughs, etc. etc. were beat. it was
the specific time frame and
> the
> environment
and the atmosphere. there were too many
elements acting on all
the
> real
> beats. you can't reinact them now. ala "goonies", "that's their
time, up
> there!
> this is our time, down here!" you can be beat, but it's not quite exactly
the
> same.
> don't qualify yourself to anyone elses
qualities.
>
> Al(falpha)
>
>
>
> Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>
http://www.mailexcite.com
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:27:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maybe you havent
look hard enough...Im 18 and Ive found such people...
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, JULIANA PABON wrote:
> so i would
say that beat is living.
> something
difficult to find in ANYONE nowadays.
>
> i have yet
to meet a single soul, in my 21 years of life, that finds as
> much glory
in just "being" as they do in "planning". i am not one to live
> my life in
the future, for the dream that might never be realized, for the
> proverbial
plateau that comes with "making it".
>
> and yet i am
at BU, working for my masters, paying off my trip to europe.
> as much as
we would all like to claim beathood, we're still stuck in the
> same game.
our only solace is that we KNOW that it's a game.
>
> i am a
solitary wanderer in an unfamiliar landscape...but
> then again,
i guess that's what's attractive about being "beat" in the
> first place.
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:29:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have this quote
on my door...it inspires me to live for the moment...
<<< snip
snip>>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> "Though
they rushed back and forth across the country on the
> slightest
pretext, gathering kicks on the way, their real
> journey was
inward." - J.C. Holmes
>
> Jack Kerouac
considered Holmes to be Beat even though he had
> settled down
and started a family. Just because
someone
> doesn't do
drugs or travel around the country doesn't make
> them any
less Beat. Beat is all about discovering
your true
> self, not
about getting high.
>
> Matt Shelton
>
matthew_shelton@mail.okbu.edu
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:08:46 -0800
Reply-To: ncashen@klondyke.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: norene cashen
<ncashen@KLONDYKE.NET>
Subject: Re: Best of Burroughs More Info
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those of you
who were interested in the Burroughs 4-CD set
forthcoming on
Mercury Records. I have advance cassettes for review for
a rock magazine.
The set is IMPERSONATOR! Liner notes for THE BEST OF
WSB on GIORNO POETRY
SYSTEMS by David Gates (Senior writer at Newsweek)
due out some time
in February or March? I don't know for sure. The set
contains readings
from 1971-1987 with a few tape experiments and things
from the 60s.
Stuff from JUNKIE, NAKED LUNCH, SOFT MACHINE, etc. Here's
an excerpt from
those liner notes by Gates: "Burroughs was as
unmistakably
American a writer as Twain -- whose boyhood adventure
stories and
anti-authoritarian skepticism both bob up in the distorting
mirror of
Burrough's work--or Whitman, whose democratic/homoerotic
expansiveness
finally met its evil twin in the dystopian bleakness of
NAKED LUNCH
(1959) and centrifugal sci-fi collage trilogy that followed:
THE TICKET THAT
EXPLODED, THE SOFT MACHINE, and NOVA EXPRESS." Hope this
got to you all. I
am new to this thing and though I lost the e-mail
address that
makes the e-mail go to everyone.
NCashen
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:11:35 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Here we go...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Levi Asher wrote:
>
> JSH wrote:
> >
Ginsberg, by the way, was pretty much an armchair beat, in my humble
> >
opinion. You didn't see him slogging through the jungle with WSB.
>
> Wrong! The guy was a fucking whirlwind his entire
life. He
> once helped
save a Mexican village from a volcano eruption.
Levi, what village was it. where. I have heard some bague references
to this. any
details?
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:18:37 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What is the sound
of one head knocking against a wall?
cathy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:56:44 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: I am the beatest of all
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Man, you're
talking about beat this beat that you're not beat hibbiddy
hibbidy blah blah
blah
I am so beat.
I was just
spending an hour out ON THE ROAD trying to score. All cause my
ol' lady tol' me
to go out and get some what she needs.
So I went to one
spot and the last of it was gone so I went to the other
and they had some
but it was all skank and I wouldn't buy that and I went
to the other and
they wouldn't even give me the time of day no chance no
how even if they
had some. So i finally hit the right
place and scored.
Beat I'm telling
you beat.
I'm telling you
those Little Mermaid Valentine's Day cards are hard to find!!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:51:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: beats on the street
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i squandered away
my post limit yesterday on petty quarreling, and was
then unable to
post this photo address:
it's sherri's
north beach birthday bash with james gardner and yrs
truely
mc
Fred Bogin wrote:
> Marie--
>
> I now have a
new, improved version (it can be modified any time) at
>
>
http://www.escape.com/~bogin/kerouac.html
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:18:09 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: hooplah!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Albert Min wrote:
>
> howdydoo,
>
>
question: what is benzedrine, exactly?
>
> yours
falsely,
> appreciative
al
>
> Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>
http://www.mailexcite.com
bennies are
uppers...speed...the nazis invented meth during wwll, and we
used bennies for
the same. they were part of every
serviceman's GI
issue. allen dulles once said he never would've
survivve wwll without
bennies. they're also upper broncho- dialators, and
were sold over the
counter for
allergies and asthma in inhailors, like vicks s now. you
could break open
the tubes and soak the chemically impregnated paper
inside in a cup
of coffee and get high.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:22:58 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re:
Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> I really,
really tried to sit on my hands and sit this one out--but the last
> couple of
days of insanely high volumes of pointless chatroom stuff has
> broken my
resolve.
Everyone on this
list has found something in Beat literature that calls to
them, that is why
we are here. Does that mean that they
have adopted a
version of a Beat
code for life--whose code would that be, anyway? You gonna
follow Herbert
Huncke or Brother Antonius or Thomas Merton?
Burroughs or Gary
Snyder? What universalities you can find are
spiritual not behavioral or
matters of
style. Labelling movements always
produces some falsity.
Individuals and
individual writers are all different, and it is the
individuality
that counts, not the Beat label. The
group that this list
centered on
flowered in the 40/s and 50's the slowly morphed into other things
in the later
decades. The world doesn't stay the
same. To try to be in some
ways beat now,
50-60 years later is to be a living ananachronism, just as well
be a DaDaist or a
Transcendentalist. You take what
enriches you from a group
of writers and
you bring it to your own time, in your own way---But of course
if some of you
want to try of be 50's beatniks who I am to complain--might be
a nice touch of
local color in boho neighborhoods, that familiar goateed,
bereted figure
with his bongo's . . . . Maybe you could do sort of Beat
Williamsburg--only
black and white TV's, old cars, no computers for sure . . .
JS
> > Julian
Ruck wrote:
> >
> >
> Who here, on this list, are
honest-to-god beats?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:50:01 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: DiPrima - Beat Skank
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/9/98 3:00:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mapaul@PIPELINE.COM
writes:
> DiPrima has
nothing special to say. Her only
> claim to fame is having sex with prominent
Beatmembers and writing about
it.
> Jakc musta' been drunk. Really....Jack
Kerouac wrote about the joy of life
> and of suffering ...and he was an original.
Nothing like these wanna-Beat's
> who lay around moaning about menstruation and
pills.
Thank you so
much, Paul. You have saved me a few
dollars. I have such great
respect for you
as a person and a critic that I will certainly run the other
way if any
obstreperous bookseller attempts to foist a DiPrima work upon me.
Can you please
post a list to the list of the "wanna-beats who lay around
moaning about
menstruation"? I'm sure that those
of us on the list who are
REAL MEN, like
yourself, would like to avoid being sullied by any such cursed
writings.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:52:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/9/98 3:06:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, jholland@ICLUB.ORG
writes:
> Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
> >
> > So you are saying 500nM is the same as
700 nM? Or that orange is blue?
>
> === I said nothing remotely of the sort.
>
> =-=-=
> jsh
> ky
> =-=-=
Did so, did so,
did so! And we all saw ya!!
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:57:47 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Hasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: reading/doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
J.S.Holland
wrote:
>Reading about
hitchhiking is not the same thing as hitchhiking.
>Reading about
Mexico is not the same as being there.
>Reading about
sex is not the same thing as doing it.
>Living
vicariously through the Beat writers' own adventures is good only
>if it
inspires you to go out and have some adventures of your own.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>J.S. Holland
>k e n t u c k
y
>now playing:
>Blind Boy
Fuller
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Granted.
Nonetheless reading is still DOING something. It is a TYPE of
experience.
-John Hasbrouck,
a Blind Boy Fuller fanatic who is convinced that he
used flatwound
strings on his National Duolian guitar.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:58:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/9/98 3:27:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mapaul@PIPELINE.COM
writes:
> there exists
nothing in Kerouac's archives about him ever
> having something to do with Diane DiPrima
sexually. At the most he screwed
> her out of sexual desperation.
You, sir, are no
gentleman! (Is it OK to say this in
reply to such trash,
Mr. Gargan?) I have several less acceptable remarks to
make to Mr. Maher.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:16:30 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
being 'beat',
what is and what isn't takes up a lot of space.
between
the original
group, ginsberg, burroughs, kerouac, hunkie, carr, soloman,
cassady, and even
corso, who the others didn't meet till about 1950, in
some ways there
isn't a lot of common ground. they all
had different
political and
social views, but shared a common sense of being
outsiders, and an
acceptance of homosexuality and drug use
being broke and
having childern at times that are inconvenient to one's
non existant
career plans don't make one a beat, though they often go
together
despite all his
other flakiness kerouac was probably the most devoted
writer of this
century. ginsberg's knowledge of poetry
was
encyclopedic, as
was his knowledge of history and politics.
burroughs,
if memory serves,
had 2 degrees. cassady, tho he didn't go
to school
past age 14,
preferred to spend time in the public library reading
philosophy. and that's the story on all those guys
the beats weren't
just a bunch of times square overcoat thieves, they
really were the
best minds of their generation. they
worked hard at
their craft and
they worked hard to get their books published, they
weren't just
fixed on the eternal now of the joint in their mouths or
the mouth on
their joint. kerouac, despite the chaos
in his life kept
his writings in
meticulous shape and was concerned with their care up
till the last
letter he wrote.
is carolyn
cassady any less beat because she kept the kids, or
ferlinghetti less
beat beacuse he runs a business (i know, he often says
he's not
beat....)
to try to live
self consciously as a beat is as dead end as trying to
self consciously
fit into any role, hobo road, holyboy road, and that, i
think, should be
the legacy of the beats, that we're free
to create our
own roles, pure
american like
did anybody see
that canadian snow boarder who lost his olympic gold
medal because of
a positive reading for pot in a drug test?
there as a
film clip of him
and he was a very normal dude of the snowboard, surfer,
skater, motocross
variety. just out there havin fun,
smokin a little
pot, and
functioning at a very high capacity.
that guy is beat. right
here and
now. and i think the only way you can
objectify the word
'beat' other than
that is that if that guy is still snowboarding at 65
he'll be just a
bit beater than if he doesn't
tkc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:42:15 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aeronwy Thomas
wrote:
>
> hi. i'd just
like to clear something up: my name is aeronwy thomas. i'm a
> sixteen year
old girl, ok? i have a lot of stress on me from school. that's
> what i meant
when i said i kept erratic hours. i often have to pull all-
> nighters to
finish work and then go to sleep when i come home from school to
> catch up.
sounds beat to me
>i don't
understand why that other guy said i was a bitch for saying
> that.
he said he was
drunk. sounds beat to me
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:47:12 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Beats post 2
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Zucchini4@AOL.COM
wrote:
> How about
this: eradicating this "beat" thing from our vocabularly.
...<snip>..
> I hate the
word beat. I hate it. It turns artists into marketing
>
oppurtunities
yeh, but the
beats created it.
>
> And no
offense Julian- but you just seem like someone looking for a head rush,
> complete
freedom... which is basicly chaos. But it doesn't seem like you're
> looking to
be a "beat" (remember- sal paradise always had to have his aunt
> send him
money while he was otr). You strike me more as a gutter punk.Go read
> Jessica
Hahn's (no not *that* J. Hahn) mini-book "Transient Ways". It's got
> her poetry,
short stories, diary entries written as she crossed the country on
> freight
trains in this great squatter's network, having a damn fine time too.
> AS far as I
can tell, it was serious.
>
> --Stephanie
colin wilson's
the outsiders is a good book about balancing the various
aspects of one's
personality
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:32:27 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: reading/doing--
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
There seems to be
this strange notion that some of you are "dooers" and the
rest of us are
not. We are all living our lives and I
don't anyone that's
confused about
the difference between reading and experience away from
books. All of us do both, it's unavoidable--of course
we could stop the
reading part if
you think that would make us better folks, and spend less
time at the
keyboard--but is that what you are doing?
I've hitchiked, have
no urge to do it
at this point of my life, I go to Mexico and have a sex
life off and
on--what straw man are you beating here.
Let's get back to
talking about
something other than this nonsense and whether or not we love
the dead. I haven't seen so much pointless drivel on
this list in months.
People sitting at
their keyboards complaining that the others being force
fed their posts
aren't having a life--get a grip--mine is pretty full--how's
yours?
JS
Kleenex wrote:
> Reading
about hitchhiking is not the same thing as hitchhiking.
>
> Reading
about Mexico is not the same as being there.
>
> Reading
about sex is not the same thing as doing it.
>
> Living
vicariously through the Beat writers' own adventures is good only
> if it
inspires you to go out and have some adventures of your own.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S. Holland
> k e n t u c
k y
> now playing:
> Blind Boy
Fuller
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:35:02 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
aeronwy: i'm
sorry that i made that mistake about your name; and your posts are
set to return to
the list. it was the other guy who had a different format.
marie
> Aeronwy-
> I feel your
pain! I did that in high school and Im still doing that in
> college!
> On Thu, 12
Feb 1998, Aeronwy Thomas wrote:
>
> > hi. i'd
just like to clear something up: my name is aeronwy thomas. i'm a
> > sixteen
year old girl, ok? i have a lot of stress on me from school. that's
> > what i
meant when i said i kept erratic hours. i often have to pull all-
> > nighters
to finish work and then go to sleep when i come home from school to
> > catch
up. i don't understand why that other guy said i was a bitch for
saying
> > that.
> >
> > maire,
what did you mean when you said my post wasn't in form or whatever?
> > does
that mean people can't answer back to me? i never knew that... why does
> > that
happen? and thanks for sticking up for me, even if i'm not "mr."
> >
> > aeronwy
> >
>
> ********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
> world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:54:40 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: fare the well, cath
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i can't help it,
screaming with laughter, holding stomach in delicious
pain.
too bad we won't
have cath around anymore . she signed off last night.
mc
Cathy Wilkie
wrote:
> What is the
sound of one head knocking against a wall?
>
> cathy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:36:47 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: and now, for something entirely
different,
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
how about some
Corso and JK poetry?
my random picks
for today include: kerouac, heaven and other pomes
The Sea Shroud
(a description of
my last cartoon)
The Sea Shroud comes out of a slip
of water in
Brooklyn Harbor, night,
it emerges from a
submerged tug
right from the
enamel underwear
of the pilot's
cabin
Right up through
comes the shroud head,
a draining drape
of wet weedy
watery sea net
spray, ephemeral,
climbing to knock
knees against the bow
and make the bit
on the dock
And come on vanishing
instead
reappearing as a
Man
with a briefcase,
on Borough Hall
saying nothing
with a watery face
saying nothing,
the briefcase full
of seaweed--what
happens to floating
bonds when they
get in the hand of the drape
Sea Shroud,
turning Chinese Food to seaweed
in his
all-abominable bag, Shroud
the taker of
widow's monies in red allies
of shame &
stagedoors, purple lagoon
Goon Shroud
departs gloving the money
Earlier in the
day he'd perched atop a
flagpole in a
parking lot
on the waterfront,
and looked around
to see which way
Borough Hall
which way the
little white doves
okay here: i'm
not too ashamed to show my ignorance. i've always loved
the sound of this
pome, (can't you help but hear his voice in your head
when he
pronounces 'purple lagoon, goon shroud'?) but i wonder what
folks make of the
meaning? (no prizes awarded except the acclaim of
actually writing
about a piece of writing
just for fun:
A HAIKU
The little worm
lowers itself from the roof
By a self shat
thread.
(hmmm a self shat
thread.... serendipidous choice regarding our recent
goings on, eh?)
Corso from
ELEGAIC FEELINGS AMERICAN (for the dear memory of john
kerouac)
1
How inseperable
you and the America you saw yet was
never there to see: you and
America, like the
tree and the ground, are one
and the same; yet how
like a palm tree in the state
of Oregon....dead
ere it blossomed, like a snow
polar loping the
Miami-
How so that which
you were or hoped to be, and the
America not, the America you
saw yet could
not see
So like yet
unlike the ground from which you stemmed;
you stood upon America like a
rootless
flat bottomed tree; to the
squirrel there was no
divorcement in its hop of
ground to its climb
of tree...until it saw no acorn
fall, then it knew
there was no marriage between
the two; how
fruitless, how useless, the sad
unnaturalness
of nature; no wonder the dawn
ceased being
a joy...for what good the earth
and sun
when the tree inbetween is good
for nothing...the
inseparable trinity, once disserviced,
becomes a
cold fruitless meaningless
thrice-marked
deathlie in its awful
amputation...O butcher
the pork chop is not the
pig--The American
alien in America is a bitter
truncantation; and even
this elegy, dear Jack, shall
have a butchered
tree, a tree beaten to a pulp,
upon which it'll be
contained--no wonder no good
news can be
written on such bad news
.........
this exerpt
brings fresh to my mind the jack of big sur, at the end of
the continent, at
the end of his bright light...
just thought it
might be time for all of us (me included) to get back to
the business at
hand,
"all rest,
drunken dumbshow"(AG)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
podulkca@uwec.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:33:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathrine Podulke
<podulkca@UWEC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The true beats.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:47 AM
2/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>i have to say
that i've learned some of what a beat is and i can feel the
> spirit,
>and that's
just from some ginsberg and kerouac. i'm
only 18 and i plan on
> learnin
>a lil
somethin and getting a degree. ya know
to please and parents and
such and
>such. a friend of mine has dropped out and takin to
the road, but i hope to
> experience
>that on top
of school. probably hit the road with
nothin but a backpack
during
> summers
>and after
school is all done. one things for
sure. i refuse to be stuck
in the
>conventional
life-style. i've seen the road and i'll
never forget it.
>
>Al
>
hey, i'll join ya
if you're wantin' company down the road, i'm in the same
boat as you.
Cat
>
>Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>http://www.mailexcite.com
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:05:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: cowards hide behind foul mouths
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aeronwy-
I feel your pain!
I did that in high school and Im still doing that in
college!
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, Aeronwy Thomas wrote:
> hi. i'd just
like to clear something up: my name is aeronwy thomas. i'm a
> sixteen year
old girl, ok? i have a lot of stress on me from school. that's
> what i meant
when i said i kept erratic hours. i often have to pull all-
> nighters to
finish work and then go to sleep when i come home from school to
> catch up. i
don't understand why that other guy said i was a bitch for saying
> that.
>
> maire, what
did you mean when you said my post wasn't in form or whatever?
> does that
mean people can't answer back to me? i never knew that... why does
> that happen?
and thanks for sticking up for me, even if i'm not "mr."
>
> aeronwy
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:30:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Tub to tub
The whole journey--
Just Hub-bub!
Issa
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:57:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"Words do not express things;
Phrases do not show the mind-movement.
He who receives (only) words is lost;
To stagnate with sentences is to be
deluded."
Joshu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:59:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"The words of some men are
thrown forcibly
against you, and adhere like
burs."
Henry David
Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:02:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"One thought fills
immensity;
To see eternity in an hour.
If we see through his thought
We see through the thinker of
it."
f. the _Kegongyo_
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:05:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[131.238.71.133]
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:22 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats post 2
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
And no offense
Julian- but you just seem like someone looking for a head
rush,
complete
freedom... which is basicly chaos. But it doesn't seem like
you're
looking to be a
"beat" (remember- sal paradise always had to have his
aunt
send him money
while he was otr). You strike me more as a gutter punk.Go
read
Jessica Hahn's
(no not *that* J. Hahn) mini-book "Transient Ways". It's
got
her poetry, short
stories, diary entries written as she crossed the
country on
freight trains in
this great squatter's network, having a damn fine time
too.
AS far as I can
tell, it was serious.
--Stephanie
well, hmm...
first off, i am
looking for enlightenment...right now, i'm working on my
inner self,
so my social
skills suck...so at times you'll have to forgive me...
secondly...
i have lived on
my own since age 15, i know how to take care of
myself...
i HAVE
hitchhiked, it's not so bad...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[131.238.71.133]
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:48:02 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yeah, I'm sorry,
I hate to be no fun, or bitch off on you... And I'm not
a
grumpy old
conservative church-going *whatever*... But I have to say:
*****stealing
does not count as doing, when doing is a good and exciting
thing. It's still
wrong, even if you yourself are poor (especially when
that's
self imposed).
Now you wouldn't see me hunting down a Jean Valjean. BUt
my
father owns a
store and kids shoplift from him all the time- it's a
major
problem for him
when he is trying to make some money and live his own
life.
stealing is very
much a part of doing...i don't do it...but it is a form
of doing...
and if people are
starving...let them steal...
in ancient sparta
stealing was encouraged in young men, but if they were
caught
they were
strictly punished...
not to say that
we should be like sparta..but theft is a part of human
nature...
little thing
called greed...
****Having children
all over the country who grow up w/ out their father
is a
bad thing too,
for obvious reasons, and it should not qualify you for
the
holiness you
consider JK to have posessed.
never said jack
was holy...and btw...i never had a father myself...and
it isn't nearly
as
bad as everyone
claims it is...
***** And
responding to your very first original post- Why have you
"lived"
more than most
people because you're bisexual and once roomed w/ a
Wiccan? I
find that to be a
little offensive.
obviously you
didn't pay any attention...why do YOU think that's what i
was saying...
don't minimize
me..i have been through a lot..and there's a lot more to
come..
i just was
pointing out that my life is not the normal life of an 18 yr
old male...
and that i feel
more enriched by it..
my trials and
tribulations have set me free...
Sorry. That was
all kind of petty and off topic wasn't it? BTW- no
Barnes and
Noble store in
the greater Philadelphia area has any Diane DiPrima
books.
What's up with
that?
--Stephanie
yes...it was
petty AND off topic..
but so's my
response...
-julian
"The Believer is happy, the Doubter is
wise"
-Hungarian
Proverb
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:56:25 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Beatniks and Hippies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
excellent post,
marie. you made my day.
>
> frying pan
shoes,
> jenn :o)
>
> In a message
dated 2/12/98 12:47:15 PM, you wrote:
>
> >jim, i
can best answer this based on events in my life, which began with my
> >first
'record player' the little boxes with one small speaker in front and
> >the
inserts to put into 45s so they wouldn't wobble all around.
> >in 7th
grade i read on the road
> >in 7th
grade i was buying every dylan 45 that came out
> >before i
bought dylan, i bought peter paul and mary - based on hearing 'the
>
>springfield mine disaster ' :in the town of springfield you don't sleep
> >easy,
down underground...etc' didn't buy them for their more upbeat tunes.
> >in 7th
grade i moved from fear of atom bomb disaster (any one remember the
> >old get
under yr desk and kiss yr ass pose drills?)
> >to the
war on tv constantly as well as the war in my home
> >in 7th
grade in my family i had seen enough violence and hatred to turn to
> >my peers
instead of my family for advice and support
> >in 7th
grade there were no peers who understood anything i wanted to talk
> >about
> >so i
knew alienation at an early age
> >in 7th
grade i started skipping school
> >in 8th
grade i chose to write a 'book report' about HOWL and its comentary
> >on the
insanity of life as we were living it-this resulted in a suspension
> >for
obscentiy, as did my paper on the then
named leroy jones
> >in 8th
grade i saw a centerfold picture (meant to scare) of a tripping
> >hippie
gazing with wonderment at a naked light bulb\my first thought was, i
> >need to
get ahold of some of that stuff.
> >reality
sucks, i wanted to lift the illusion, the veil and see the other
> >side.
without knowing it at an early age i began to think like a buddhist.
> >all
though my early years we ate supper watching the horrors of vietnam and
> >the body
counts - body counts given out like
scores at a football game!
> >in 8th
grade i started hangin' with vietnam vets who came home not only
>
>disillusioned and against the war, but with really good drugs.
> >i went
from the beatest of beat reading and music to alternative highs and
> >joys of
hippy life.
> >allen
ginsberg was always there.
> >and the
grateful dead followed with dark star, st stephen, uncle john's band
> >and all
songs which in beatitude managed to retain the joy of living in the
> >midst of
the insanity of the war and raids on cambodia,
> >hope
this helps .
> >mc
When did the
Grateful Dead become part of beatdom? Come on...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:12:22 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Comments: To:
jesse@globaldialog.com, nwu@nwu.org, iww@igc.apc.org
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Off-BEAT Humor
from Iowa City
Tomorrow is
Valentine's Day. So far all of you out there without a significant
"squeezable,
huggable, kissable, loveable" other, go out and buy yourself the
best box of
chocolates you can afford, because:
Top Twenty
Reasons Why Chocolate is Better than Sex
1. You can GET chocolate.
2. "If you love me you'll swallow
that" has real meaning with chocolate.
3. Chocolate satisfies even when it has gone soft.
4. You can safely have chocolate while you are
driving.
5. You can make chocolate last as long as you
want it to.
6. You can have chocolate even in front of your
mother.
7. If you bite the nuts too hard the chocolate
won't mind.
8. Two people of the same sex can have chocolate
without being called nasty
names.
9. The word "commitment" doesn't scare
off chocolate.
10. You can have chocolate on top of your desk
during working hours without
upsetting your
co-workers.
11. You can ask a stranger for chocolate without
getting your face slapped.
12. You don't get hairs in your mouth with
chocolate.
13. With chocolate there's no need to fake it.
14. Chocolate doesn't make you pregnant.
15. You can have chocolate at any time of the
month.
16. Good chocolate is easy to find.
17. You can have as many kinds of chocolate as
you can handle.
18. You are never too young or too old for
chocolate.
19. When you have chocolate it does not keep your
neighbors awake.
20. With chocolate, size doesn't matter.
-- Rashad (from
material I stole off the Internet)
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:23:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: scope
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Folks, there's
been an awful lot of mail on Beat-l lately.
Can we
PLEASE refrain
from posting messages that are not directly related to
the writers of
the Beat Generation and their works.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:56:20 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
abe lincoln? the
beats? the connection?
dude is wearing
rimbaud's confirmation suit which was later owned by
patti smith, man,
you gotta dig it.....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:29:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
One - It was the
right thing to say because I felt like saying it TO YOU.
There are no
rules of civility that I must follow when communicating with
Joe Grant and Co.
Two - For reasons
of prudency, such "lists" are not in a library or
university
because some people on that list are still alive and would not
appreciate it
being public knowledge that Kerouac gave them the high hard
one. Unlike your
practices, Grant, most people practice prudency and
discretion so as
not to offend innocent people who may not want any part of
Kerouac history.
They were probably only looking for a good time. P.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:37:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>One - It was
the right thing to say because I felt like saying it TO YOU.
>There are no
rules of civility that I must follow when communicating with
>Joe Grant and
Co.
You comment was
wrong, is unacceptable, and PUBLICALLY I am informing you
that I will see
you in Lowell and deal with your comments about my mother
persoanlly..
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE
ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
hlinh@pop.student.uib.no
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:43:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nils-Xivind Haagensen
<hlinh@POP.STUDENT.UIB.NO>
Subject: Re: beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'm not beat
i just can't
sleep
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:57:04 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Declan MacManus
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization: the
secret conspiracy to do.... stuff
Subject: Re: Mr. Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
James Stauffer
wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> Give it
up. You give yourself and your damn
quarterly a bad name. In a bar,
on
> the street
or in person somewhat wound thrash you, yet you sit there smugly at
> your
keyboard like a nasty 6 year old. Go home,
No one wants to play with
you.
>
> JS
=== A post such
as this, that contains nothing but personal attacks, is
just as bad to me
as the 'rude' posts some of you claim to be so
outraged by. Not
that I'm defending Maher - not by a long shot - but
your name-calling
is just as much childish, pointless spam as his.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland -
kentucky
vrooooom
vrooooooooom
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:05:18 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: August Derleth
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost - worst coffee in North America
Subject: Moderated Beat-L?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What about the
idea of a Moderated list? Not the type where Bill has to
sort through each
mail and make a decision on it, but rather, a simple
rule - - if you
make any personal attacks or insults toward a fellow
listmember,
you're out. One strike, you're out. No second chance.
Whatcha say?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland. kentucky.
listening to Wild
Billy Childish
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MR-Received: by
mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:27:37 -0500
Alternate-recipient:
prohibited
Posting-date:
Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:27:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance:
normal
Priority: normal
UA-content-id:
E1808ZXGCM39U4
X400-MTS-identifier:
[;73725131208991/2025945@FIRNVX]
A1-type: MAIL
Hop-count: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:26:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "James F. Wood 253-7886"
<WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>
Subject: Beat it
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What is a Beat?
Beat is doing.
Beat is being.
Beat is getting
high.
As high as you
want!
If you want to be
a beat
Just beat it.
So Be It!!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:44:31 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Speed
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Benzedrine is a
member of the amphetamine family. Rumor
always has it
that it was a
product of world WWII and was used, especially by
pilots, on both
sides. Atfter the war it was easiest to
find in over
the counter nasal
inhalers which could be broken open and the rush
accessed. This is the form you see generally referred
to in the 40's
and early 50's
beat world. By the sixties benzedrine
was available in
pills, generally
what were known as cross top bennies or beans from
Mexico. Lots of other pharmacutical grade amphetimine
was also
available,
dexedrine dexymyl, etc, some mixed with mellowing agents.
These were
"diet pills" did the job
to. Then there was always the
king of speed,
crystal meth. IMHO speed, especially
benzedrine and
dexedrine, are
understimated in their importance in Beat culture.
Jack loved to
write on bennies and weed. It's a
wonderful combination
but the bennies
take their toll. Amphetamine isn't good
for you, but
you sure as hell
can produce. Speed and weed, in
combination can get
you very very
high, a similar (somewhat more functional) high to the
psychedelics. It was a great artist and writers
combination, as was
mixing speed and
heroin in goofballs--just tear your head in two
seperate
directions at once.
JS
Albert Min wrote:
> howdydoo,
>
>
question: what is benzedrine, exactly?
>
> yours
falsely,
> appreciative
al
>
> Free
web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
>
http://www.mailexcite.com
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Abe
Lincoln
Cc:
Bcc:
race@midusa.net,bocelts@scsn.net,rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
(FWD)source
http://www.drudgereport.com/1.htm
[excerpt]
XXXXX DRUDGE
REPORT FINAL XXXXX 02:59:33 UTC THU FEB 12 1998 XXXXX
[excerpt]
...
X X X X X
HHS: ABE LINCOLN
WAS BIPOLAR
Abraham Lincoln
most likely suffered from a mental disorder, the
Substance Abuse
and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), a
division of the
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, announced
on Wednesday.
"Abraham Lincoln
is an inspiration to everyone who is living with
depression and/or
bipolar disorder," the agency announces in a press
release designed
to break the stigma associated with mental illness.
"From the
time he was a teenager, Abraham Lincoln lived with what today
some people think
might have been depression and bipolar disorder.
Bipolar disorder,
also known as manic-depressive illness, is a mental
illness involving
episodes of serious mania and depression."
John Lang of
SCRIPPS HOWARD reports: "As evidence that Lincoln 'might'
have suffered
from a bipolar disorder, the agency cites six references.
"One is from
Encyclopedia Americana: 'Abraham Lincoln is believed to
have lived with
alternating moods of hilarity and dejection'; another
from Collier's
Encyclopedia: 'Abraham Lincoln, in December 1836, is
reported to have
had an episode of severe depression after the sudden
death of Ann
Rutledge, with whom he had fallen in love.' [Some
historians now
discount the idea that Lincoln was in love with Ann
Rutledge.]"
But Dr. Melvyn
Haas, associate director for medical affairs of SAMHSA's
Center for Mental
Health Services, wants no part of his agency's attempt
to diagnose
historical figures such as Lincoln.
He tells SH:
"I think it would be extremely dangerous to attempt to sort
any of these out
and come up with a diagnosis. I think it's against the
regulations of
the American Psychiatric Association to make such a
diagnosis
ethically."
X X X X X
...
The report is
moved when circumstances warrant
(c) DRUDGE REPORT
1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:31:53 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
tkc wrote:
> did anybody
see that canadian snow boarder who lost his olympic gold
> medal
because of a positive reading for pot in a drug test? there as a
> film clip of
him and he was a very normal dude of the snowboard, surfer,
> skater,
motocross variety. just out there havin
fun, smokin a little
> pot, and
functioning at a very high capacity.
that guy is beat. right
> here and
now. and i think the only way you can
objectify the word
> 'beat' other
than that is that if that guy is still snowboarding at 65
> he'll be
just a bit beater than if he doesn't
Yeah! Now that's a manifesto.
Oh ... Patricia asked
for info about Ginsberg and the incident
with the volcano
eruption in Mexico. The whole story is
in
the biography of
Ginsberg by Michael Schumacher. I can't
remember
the details, but
I think Ginsy was in Mexico on some kind of
archaelogical mission,
and when the volcano started erupting he
was the one who
convinced a group of people that they had to all
go warn the
nearby residents. The story was a bit
confusing, but
it definitely
shows that this was a poet who did more than sit
around writing
poetry. Not that there's anything wrong
with
sitting around
writing poetry (right Marie Countryman?).
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
| |
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
| |
| "Nothing
is capsulized in me, on either side of town" |
| -- Joni
Mitchell |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:37:58 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 13
Feb 1998 22:30:11...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:30:11 +0100 with subject "Re: Abe
Lincoln" has been
successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (250
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:38:13 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dan Jellhoff
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost - worst coffee in North America
Subject: Poetry reading
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
You are all
cordially invited
to
a free poetry reading
...at the
C R E E P S
O U T P O S T
*March 15*
readings by:
=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland ("714", "The Last Laugh", "Blue Mold",
"One Minute
Past
Eternity", "Chickenwire")
=-=
Todd Dockery
("Broken Teeth", "Standing at the End of a Dead End
Street",
"Sodajerkers and Jitterbugs")
=-=
Samantha Endicott
("Confessions of an Escort", "Long Distance")
=-=
Taffy Monroe
("Men", "The Daily Planet", "The Girl From
Disputanta",
"Poems for Lovers
Past")
=-=
Nick Valle
(".38 Slug", "Hardcore Motherfucker")
=-=
Doug Saretsky
("Bad Girl Stories", "Tapestry of Profanity")
=-=
Ed Hieronymus
("The Portable Ed", "Abortion Stories")
=-=
Ninnie Nu Ninnie
- Performance Artist
=-=
Also possibly :
Gwenda Bond, Jordan Green, Ron Whitehead, Brian Manley,
Stinky Pete
Hrabak, Megann Thomas, Scooter Odum, and YOU.
=============================
musical
interludes provided by Cheeseburger & Fries.
=============================
free coffee
almost free cake
free free free
free free
Creeps Outpost
129 S. 1st Street
Richmond, KY
40475
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
Berea, Ky -
rrrrrrrrrrrr
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:39:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thenwhere exactly
is this list? and how do you have access
and/or knowledge
of this?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:45:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
abe lincoln? the
beats? the connection?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:37:17 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Areonwy,
Unfortunately,
sometimes the distance provided by the list-service allows
to people to
behave as though they were closed up in their cars, able to
curse and give
the finger to everyone with impunity. I hope that you will
believe that
there are plenty of people on this list who were offended by
the insensitivity
of the curse directed at you: it was mean-spirited and
undeserved. I
hope that it will not discourage you from participating
further in this
forum.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
On Thu, 12 Feb
1998, Aeronwy Thomas wrote:
> excuse me?
why are you cursing me? i didn't mean to insult you. what on earth
> are you
thinking? when i tlked about a super-stressed teen, i was referring to
> myself. i
think you'd better not be so hasty to curse people out next time.
> god knows
there are hot tempers on the list.
>
> aeronwy
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:39:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz
<CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Could someone
tell me why Abraham Lincoln is being discussed on Beat-L?
It's sort of a
coincidence, cuz I'm comparing a work of Ginsberg's to The
Gettysburg
Address, and would be interested in the reason for these postings.
In fact, I found
this list while researching the topic...
><CYAN47I><
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Emc.Fedex.Com:
021398:1
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:00:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Zarubnicky
<dmzarubnicky@FEDEX.COM>
Subject: BACK TO LITERATURE -J. DIDION
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie...thanks
for the Corso and JK poetry....
can we please try
and get back to nature of this list...namely
Literature......
The posts over
the last few days about women writers had me thinking
of Joan
Didion. I picked up _Slouching Towards
Bethlehem_ and _The
White Album_ at a
used bookstore ages ago and have yet to read them.
Didion's name
seems to pop up alot (not on this list..but other places).
..I don't know
much about her? Can anyone fill me
in? Any opinions of
her work?
What about Anne
Waldeman as a female beat writer??
Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vj@pop.primenet.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:01:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: I wasn't wrong about Maher RE Was: di
Prima ad naseum
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
J Grant asked
Paul Maher aka TKQ:
>In the material you were looking at did JK
ever say that he was fucking
>whores, or
anyone out of desperation?
A legitimate,
restrained question, agreed I think given the bad blood
between these two
guys.
But Maher
responded:
> Yes , your mom. P.
And this on the
heels of his well respected "eat me
motherfucker" that we
all thot so well
put.
Remember that
"claptrap, youngster, get the nouns
and verbs" posts of
recent past? Wasn't far off, don't you think? How long are you people
going to tolerate
this Maher guy. He's a pseudo beat
intellectual
afficianado
wannabe with more opinions than knowledge, and less courtesy.
The pseudo
intellectual over-posting can be tolerated, but I think the brash
lack of courtesy
needs to be spoken to.
Maher, sit on yr
opinions longer, speak more politely to those who know more
than you, and
digest other ideas longer than a knee jerk.
--Or, try a punk
group.
_____________________
Skydivers know
why the birds sing
V.J. Eaton
Tempe, AZ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:08:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul Maher wrote
to J. Grant (but posted to entire Beat-l):
----------
> From: Paul
A. Maher Jr. <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Re:
I was wrong about DiPrima.
> Date:
Friday, February 13, 1998 12:29 PM
>
> One - It was
the right thing to say because I felt like saying it TO YOU.
> There are no
rules of civility that I must follow when communicating with
> Joe Grant
and Co.
The problem here
is that you chose to post your private insult to the
entire list. That was a provocative action with absolutely
no regard for
the feelings of
Mr. Grant or any of the other 250+ people on the Beat-l.
If you must spew
vile trash, do everyone else a favor and backchannel it to
only the person
you wish to direct it to.
Thank you.
Jym
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: !!DON'T
GIVE UP!! (was Re: Abe Lincoln)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<70ae8d2a.34e4befd@aol.com>
References:
Carly Earnshaw
says:
>abe lincoln?
the beats? the connection?
| | |
| | |
my barcode num | the
badge reader
ber
unsticked | red light flashi
on the card | refused
my name
\ |
/
\ |
/
the town and the city
/ has almost 300 pages\
searching/ \
for a bib\ pietas i saw \
le in a j \ a dead rat o \
ail
\----- n the street \
| today dead r \
| at is beauti \
| ful! the book
|
\ guilty o
|
\ f everyt
|
\---------- hing is
|
/ out of p
|
/ rint\
mexico city
blues-----\ \
is sold out
\ I STOPPED
\ | FOR A COF
\ HST / FE TONITE
DEAD ra BUR--------------\
t is be IED \maybe i h
autiful IN ave to bu
it's is THE ried the
useless 60s rat pleas
\ | se
DON'T \ /
GIVE \ /
UP!! DON'T GIVE UP!!
\ /
\ /
a prayer...
---
rinaldo
14feb98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.20]
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:15:50 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> Man...
what crap. I really have to say that I appreciate this
idolatry
>> of a big
part of MY generation..but really guys you are way out on
this
>>
one--hardly anyone under 50 years of age could even come close to
>>
understanding "BEAT" without intensive study...its not berets, bongos
>> and
hitchhiking... what it was was a state of mind that said
>>
"art"-(writing, painting & music) would or maybe could, change
the
>> world...
I dont now what it is you young types find so attractive
about
>> the Beat
Generation ,but I gotta feeling it aint' what you thought it
>> was.
Read Ginsberg-he was the best at reflecting his generation. Its
>> kinda
weird that I don't understand the current generation--so how
come
>> you all
think you knew a previous one you didnt live in? DIG IT?
>
>this is quite
absurd from the perspective of a "younger person"
>I read on the
road when I was 16 and since have been involved in
reading
>many other
forms of Beat literature
>I guess what
this man is saying is that I should only read literature
>from my
generation
>Oh wait, I
don't like any of it
>So I should
not read at all
>Tell me what
I should do
>I like the
Beat Generation, actually I love it
>I might not know
it the way you do, but from what you are saying, you
>never read
any Plato, Aristotle, Hume, Dostoyevsky, or anything out of
>your
generation because you couldn't relate to it
>Take into
consideration the way others may be able to "relate" to the
>beats in
second hand ways
>
>beatifically
yours
>eric
>
Hm. Fine point, Eric. There are very few things we have in our
Reality, but one
of them is history. It is the way of our
progress. If
we all live
*solely* in today, interacted *only* with today, I think we
would seriously
restrict our amount of progress and understanding of the
world. In fact, we would totally eliminate it. We must have the
literature from
our past (along with other written, spoken,
architecture,
oral, created artifacts), and we must read it.
We do not
need to
understand it purely in the mindset of the age in which it was
written, but we
may understand in our today's perspective.
That is what
literature is, or
any form of art. It is its timelessness,
its eternal
wisdom. The Beats said quite a few things, not just
about the 50's, but
life itself. I agree that to be a Beat one need not wear
particular
clothes or be
specific place... it is not even necessary to *try* to be
a Beat. But to read, and attempt to understand their
literature and
song, etc., is
quite an honorable goal. We study what
they had to say,
and we try to be
like they were, because they had true insight into
life. Anyone can read that today, and what they do
on the side is
purely auxillary
and beside the point.
We read Aristotle
not because we want to be like him, or becuase we
think we need to
become like the Greeks. He said many
incorrect things,
applied Science
in (currently) kooky ways; that is beside the point. We
read him because
of his interest in the world arround him, and his
understanding of
human nature, etc.
Ack. All this materialism and literalism. Don't say "Oh well, you
fellows didn't
live back then, so give it a break."
By saying that, you
do not live
today.
Christopher
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:22:35 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City University
of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 14
Feb 1998 00:12:06...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:12:06 +0100
with subject "!!DON'T
GIVE UP!! (was
Re: Abe Lincoln)" has been successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (250
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:25:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Okay I'm sorry
about your mother....I meant you...Kerouac had you on his list.
>P. See you in
Lowell.....meet me at the Cosmo lounge.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.20]
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:29:13 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: scope
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Folks,
there's been an awful lot of mail on Beat-l lately. Can we
>PLEASE refrain
from posting messages that are not directly related to
>the writers
of the Beat Generation and their works.
>
Hi. Please excuse my potential naivity, as I am
reasonably new to this
ol' list, and am
therefore perhaps unaware of the long-standing
philosophy of
it. But, it would seem to me that
discussion tangentally
related to
"the Beats" and "their works" should be certainly
allowed. I
agree that
messages are most plethoric, yet, I say all the better.
Generations are
nice to talk about not just because of the personalities
and the art
produced within, but the rebounding repercussions, their
effect on later
years, on current personalities, on the members of this
list. By elaborating and articulating our thoughts
on these associated
issues, that is
how we all come to a greater understanding of the Beat
Generation and of
ourselves, in this day and age.
Christopher.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:38:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: I wasn't wrong about Maher RE Was: di
Prima ad naseum
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:01 PM
2/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>J Grant asked
Paul Maher aka TKQ:
> >In the material
you were looking at did JK ever say that he was fucking
>>whores,
or anyone out of desperation?
>
>A legitimate,
restrained question, agreed I think given the bad blood
>between these
two guys.
>
>But Maher
responded:
> > Yes ,
your mom. P.
>
>Oh yes...I
forgot...Mrs. Eaton was on that list too...she was double-teamed
by Ginsberg and
Kerouac. Gosh darn it how unacademic of me. Now my
pseudointellectual
beatness is tarnished. How will I ever impress V.J. Eaton
once more? Man oh
man.....
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:42:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
If my
"vileness" is so awful then you better stay from Beat Lit. and pick
up
a Henry James
novel. I can't believe I'm among such polite society. Your all
a bunch of bores
who sit around monitoring what is and isn't proper to
say....judge me
however you want I could care less. I have nothing to prove
to Jo Grant, V.J.
eaton and the rest of them who follow similar lines. Why
don't you all
take the trip to Lowell with Mr. Grant and "deal with me
personally in Lowell."
Sincerely, Paul Maher.
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:52:14 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Orifice surrealiste
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From Stephen Barber, _Antonin Artaud:
Blows and Bombs_
(London: Faber
and Faber, 1993):
The editorial control of the third
issue of
_La Revolution surrealiste_ was given over
entirely to
Artaud. He was determined to use this
opportunity in
the same way that he had wanted the
Surrealist Research
Centre to be used. The magazine would
become the orifice
for assaults upon all the social,
religious and medicinal
bodies which the Surrealists held in
contempt. Artaud
conceived of a series of open letters that
would accom-
plish this. They would convey a powerful
and intimate
refusal to their addressees. Artaud's idea
for a written
expectoration of direct insults cut across
the predi-
lection of many of the Surrealists for a
vague and
inoffensive esotericism. Breton in no way
participated
in the composition of the letters. He
would later claim
that Artaud had led the Surrealist
movement in a danger-
ous direction with this material, which
was far more
unsettling and precarious than the anguish
experienced
by Breton and Soupault from too close an
involvement
with automatic writing. Artaud's issue of
_La Revolution
surrealiste_ was published on 15 April
1925. It was to
be the only issue edited by Artaud; Breton
himself
directed the fourth issue in July, which
contained
nothing at all by Artaud. (p. 24)
--------------------|||||||||||||||||--------------------
Gregory
Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco << BULLDOG BREATH >>
you better walk
it as you talk it or you'll lose that beat
-Lou Reed
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:05:50 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Method Man
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
None
Subject: Mr Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Somebody
suggested Mr Maher should go looking for a punk-list,
personally I
believe gangsta-rap would be more up his alley.
Yo'
momma! ;)
--Thomas (Stoned)
is that beat?
high on weed?
I really don't
give a sh*t
doing, being
blablablabla
WHY CAN'T WE ALL
JUST GET ALONG?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:29:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
How are you
comparing the two?
On Fri, 13 Feb
1998, Cheyanne C Ritz wrote:
> Could
someone tell me why Abraham Lincoln is being discussed on Beat-L?
> It's sort of
a coincidence, cuz I'm comparing a work of Ginsberg's to The
> Gettysburg
Address, and would be interested in the reason for these postings.
> In fact, I
found this list while researching the topic...
>
><CYAN47I><
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:29:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul--
Could you
possibly SHUT UP? If you have nothing nice to say, dont say it
at all.. this is
what I tell my 2nd graders!
On Fri, 13 Feb
1998, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
> Okay I'm
sorry about your mother....I meant you...Kerouac had you on his list.
>
> >P. See
you in Lowell.....meet me at the Cosmo lounge.
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:32:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: TQK
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul--
You can take me
off the mailing for TQK. I want nothing to do with it...
I posted this to
the list because I want everyone to know what Im doing.
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vj@pop.primenet.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:05:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: You are a
patient list owner
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Good job. And you know . . . Given present TKQ contrasts, I'm missing
Whitehead. Is a swap possible, or at least a rotation
schedule :-)
Why Poe? as a
thread over any x others, to be curious.
_____________________
Skydivers know
why the birds sing
V.J. Eaton
Tempe, AZ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:09:07 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Weebly Wobblies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Poet at Play: 2
Feb 1998
(The making of
"Meaning of America: I")
by Gregory
Severance
SOURCE TEXT A
excerpts from:
Allen Ginsberg,
"America," in _Howl and Other Poems_,
(San Francisco:
City Lights Books, 1956).
Excerpt one:
I'm addressing you.
Are you going to let your emotional life
be run by
Time Magazine?
I'm obsessed by Time Magazine.
I read it every week.
Its cover stares at me every time I slink
past the corner
candystore.
I read it in the basement of the Berkeley
Public Library.
It's always telling me about
responsibility. Business-
men are serious. Movie producers are
serious.
Everybody's serious but me.
It occurs to me that I am America.
I am talking to myself again.
(pp. 40-1)
Excerpt two:
I have mystical visions and cosmic
vibrations.
(p. 40)
Excerpt three:
America I feel sentimental. . .
(p. 40)
SOURCE TEXT B
William S.
Burroughs, interview by Conrad Knickerbocker,
in _Writers at
Work: The "Paris Review" Interviews_, ed. George
Plimpton, 3rd
ser. (New York: Viking Press, 1967; reprint, New
York: Penguin
Books, 1977). The interview took place
on Jan. 1, 1965
in WSB's room at the Chase-Park Plaza Hotel,
Saint Louis, Mo.
BURROUGHS:. . . [Henry Luce] has set up
one of the
greatest word-and-image banks in the
world. I mean,
there are thousands of photos, thousands
of words
about anything and everything, all in his
files. All
the best pictures go into the files. Of
course,
they're reduced to microphotos now. I've
been inter-
ested in the Mayan system, which was a
control cal-
endar. You see, their calendar postulated
really
how everyone should feel at a given time,
with lucky
days, unlucky days, et cetera. And I feel
that
Luce's system is comparable to that. It is
a con-
trol system. It has nothing to do with
reporting.
_Time-Life-Fortune_ is some sort of police
organ-
ization. (p. 163)
Step 1.23:
In two columns
(with a quarter inch gutter between columns),
on an 8 1/2 by 11
inch leaf (loose-leaf, college-ruled),
using a Pilot
ball point pen (medium point, black ink), I
inscribed source
texts A & B. Here's an ascii transcription
of my doubled
columned leaf:
-------------- ------------------------
| "America" | 2-2-98 | Paris Review Interview |
| | | w/ WSB p 163 |
-------------- ------------------------
I'm addressing you Henry Luce has set
are you going to up one of the greatest
let your emotional word-and-image banks
life be run by in the world I mean
Time Magazine I'm there are thousands of
obsessed by Time photos, thousands of
Magazine I read words about anything
it every week its and everything all in
cover stares at me his files all the best
every time I slink pictures go into the files
past the corner of course they're reduced
candystore I read to microphotos now
it in the basement I've been interested in
of the Berkeley Public the Mayan system
Library it's always which was a control
telling me about calendar you see
responsibility business their calendar
men are serious postulated really
movie producers are how everyone should
serious everybody's feel at a given time
serious but me it with lucky days
occurs to me that et cetera and I
I am America I feel that Luce's system
am talking to is comparable to that
myself again. It is a control system
I have mystical It has nothing to do
visions and cosmic with reporting. _Time-_
vibrations. America _Life-Fortune_ is some
I feel sentimental sort of police organization.
Step 1.88:
I made a
typescript of the text resulting from step 1.23
using the BBEdit
text editor on Macintosh and printing on
a laser printer.
Here's an asciiscript of my typescript:
I'm addressing you Henry Luce has set
are you going to up one of the greatest
let your emotional word-and-image banks
life be run by in the world I mean
Time Magazine I'm there are thousands of
obsessed by Time photos thousands of
Magazine I read words about anything
it every week its and everything all in
cover stares at me his files all the best
every time I slink pictures go into the
files
past the corner of course they're reduced
candystore I read to microphotos now
it in the basement I've been interested in
of the Berkeley Public the Mayan system
Library it's always which was a control
telling me about calendar you see
responsibility business their calendar
men are serious postulated really
movie producers are how everyone should
serious everybody's feel at a given time
serious but me it with lucky days
occurs to me that et cetera and I
I am America I feel that Luce's system
am talking to is comparable to that
myself again it is a control system
I have mystical it has nothing to do
visions and cosmic with reporting Time
vibrations America Life-Fortune is some
I feel sentimental sort of police
organization
Steps 1.23 and
1.88 were done in my office on the 6th floor
of the Time and
Life Building (6th Ave. and 50th St., New
York City,
America).
Working with the
typescript from step 1.88 on the subway
from Rockefeller
Center to my neighborhood in Brooklyn
(Prospect
Heights, 7th Avenue station on the "D" and "Q"
line) and later
at home, the poem, "Meaning of America: I",
emerged.
I retained all
words, in order, from the typescript. I
added
punctuation, changed the case of initial letters
of some words,
changed the tense of some verbs, and
changed endings
(from plural to singular,
from plural to
possesive) of some nouns.
My movement
toward making "Meaning of America: I" was
influenced by my
correspondence with Cheyanne Ritz.
-------------------------------------------------
by Gregory
Severance
Meaning of
America: I
I'm addressing
you, Henry.
Luce has set.
Are you going to
up one of the greatest?
Let your
emotional word-and-image bank's life be run
by in the world.
I mean Time
Magazine.
I'm there.
Are thousands of
obsessed by Time photos, thousands
of Magazines I read, words about anything,
it?
Every week it's
and.
Everything, all
in cover, stares at me: his files,
all, the best.
Every time I
slink, pictures go into the files past
the corner.
Of course they're
reduced, Candystore.
I read to
microphotos now.
It, in the
basement, I've been interested in.
Of: the Berkeley
public; the Mayan system Library.
It's always which
was.
A control telling
me about calendar.
You see,
responsibility, business, their calendar,
men, are serious--postulated, really.
Movie producers
are how.
Everyone should
serious everybody's feel.
At a given time
serious but me, it with Lucky.
Days occur to me,
that, et cetera.
And I?
I am America; I
feel that.
Luce's system is
talking to, is comparable to, that
myself.
Again it is a
control system I have.
Mystical: it has
nothing.
To do visions and
cosmic, with reporting Time vibrations,
America-Life-Fortune is.
Some, I feel,
sentimental sort of police organization.
February 2, 1998
New York City,
America
------------------------------------------------------
** (5 Feb 1998:
01:00):
While proofing
the above text I noticed that I had left
out some words
from the typescript in making the poem.
I have worked
those words into the revised poem above.
Here are the
recovered words:
. .
. it with Lucky.
Days occur to me. . .
-----------------------------
** (14 Feb 1998:
00:45):
While reading the
above text at ABC No Rio's,
(a performance
space and gallery on the
Lower East Side,
156 Rivington St., New York
City, America)
"Our Unorganicized Reading",
on 8 Feb 1998 I
realized that I had left out
two words:
"unlucky days". These words now
appear in the
"final" revision of "Meaning of
America: I,"
which is at:
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/moa1.html
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
"In the
Autumn of 1951 I began thinking of Cody Pomeray,
thinking of Cody Pomeray."
-- Jack Kerouac VISIONS OF CODY
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:14:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: You are a patient
list owner
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Whitehead is
welcome back whenever he likes. He left
of his own free will. An
stee too. Reason I posted the Poe question is that I'm
helping Burton Pollin,
a Poe Scholar,
with information for an article on Poe's influence on AG.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:16:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Misdirected mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
My apologies to
the list. The last message I sent was
intended only for V.J. E
aton not for the
list.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:10:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Sova <DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Misdirected mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Bill:
I'm one
listmember who is happy that your message for VJ Eaton was posted to
the list. I'm under contract with a reference publisher
to produce a work
entitled Poe, A
to Z (just finished 2 volumes of a 4-volume set on censorship
that includes
works by AG and WSB). After a long time
of compiling
names/places/works,
etc., I finally obtained a copy of Pollin's then-
experimental and
revolutionary-for-1968 computer-produced indexing of Poe's
works. I might have a few connections between EAP
and AG to contribute ---
and maybe a few
between EAP and WSB. Turnabout might
also occur. I will
communicate
further on this backchannel, of course.
For now, however, I
posted this to
the list because what happened here for me represents what
intelligent (not
name-calling and mother-slurring posts) can accomplish. A
little thoughtful
inquiry is great for the soul and the mind --- and this has
nothing to do
with the level of education or extent of vocabulary that earlier
posts argued
about.
Thank you.
Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:49:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Misdirected mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Dear Bill:
>
>I'm one
listmember who is happy that your message for VJ Eaton was posted to
>the
list. I'm under contract with a
reference publisher to produce a work
>entitled Poe,
A to Z (just finished 2 volumes of a 4-volume set on censorship
>that includes
works by AG and WSB). After a long time
of compiling
>names/places/works,
etc., I finally obtained a copy of Pollin's then-
>experimental
and revolutionary-for-1968 computer-produced indexing of Poe's
>works. I might have a few connections between EAP
and AG to contribute ---
>and maybe a
few between EAP and WSB. Turnabout might
also occur. I will
>communicate
further on this backchannel, of course.
For now, however, I
>posted this
to the list because what happened here for me represents what
>intelligent
(not name-calling and mother-slurring posts) can accomplish. A
>little
thoughtful inquiry is great for the soul and the mind --- and this has
>nothing to do
with the level of education or extent of vocabulary that earlier
>posts argued
about.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Dawn
Dawn,
Are you familiar
with the book, The Dread Road by Meridel LeSueur.
Published 1991 by
West End Press, Albuquerque, NM.
Using an
interesting format Meridel had three columns on the page.
1st: Quotations
from Poe
2nd: The story
3rd: Notes aout
the story.
Information on
the book at: http://www.bookzen.com/books/0000066.html
Also a much reproduced review and analysis by poet
Chck Miller.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE
ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:32:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz
<CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I just painted my
nails and they are slowly drying, so please excuse the
typos.
The poem I'm
comparing to the Address is Ginsberg's "America". I did a big
ol' research
project on the address last year, and what it means reminds me of
what
"America" means to me. Greg
Severance (morocco@walrus.com) has been
working with me
on this - he posted his poem based on "America" a while back.
(there is liquid
quick dry all over the keyboard! sigh...I am so
irresponsible!)
Anyway, here is a
part of that essay on the address from last year:
***
. . . If the men
in the war and those buried in the hills of Gettysburg were
not fighting for
an end to slavery, what reason was there?
This is the theme
of the Gettysburg
Address. The address gave Americans a new definition, that
they were all an
important part of a test they chose to undertake. Those who
died for that
choice had "gave their lives that the nation might live", as
Lincoln said in
the address. Lincoln did not want to
dedicate the cemetery;
those who had
died had already consecrated it. Lincoln
wanted to dedicate
every American
life to "a new birth of freedom" he spoke of in the address.
This new birth of
freedom was the direction Americans could take.
Extinction
of slavery and
then the end of any form of inequality would be this "perfect
Union"
expressed in the Declaration of Independence.
This is just what the
nation
needed. The battles of the Civil War and
the battle of the "new birth
of freedom"
were the same. The Civil War
may be over, but
the events leading up to the hopeful freedom carry over to
today, as
Lincoln's words echo on. Then and now,
we are all as Americans
standing just
"Downwind from Gettysburg" (Bradbury 77). . . .
(end)
and here is
something I sent to Mr. Severance when I first started thinking
about writing a
paper on "America":
***
I thought that I
would supply you with some more information on what kind of
paper I have in
mind.
Mostly I see this
poem as an backlash of the non-majority, a backlash
recognized by
Ginsberg and voiced. He is talking to
America but "It occurs to
(him) that I am
America" (line49). Almost like a
dirty conscience whispering
insults in the
background.
I did a research
paper on Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, and what it meant then
and means now to
us. Reading those words, an America
still gets the ideal of
what America
means - he rewrote the Constitution's meaning with that speech.
Many others
before Lincoln had tried this, but only Lincoln's speech survives
as the most
finely worded and perfect definition.
What I want to
prove through research is that Ginsberg's is in the same vein.
It is a poem that
states something America must pin down --- the arguement
between the
majority and minority; that America is not perfect as some like to
think -
"America after all it is you and I who are perfect not the next
world".
There is an
arguement, a division between those in charge and those can't just
watch any more. Those in charge are dealing out atrocrocies
like in lines
66-69.
America free Tom
Mooney
America save the
Spanish Loyalists
America Sacco
& Vanzetti must not die
America I am the
Scotsboro boys.
There are still
things like this going on.
(end)
So that's about
the extent of this so far -- I've got about, uh, four weeks or
so to write it,
maybe more. I'm doing it for a research
paper in a Eng 104
class. I dual credit from high school at a local
university.
Soooo....any
suggestions, ect; can be placed here. I
read Everything on this
listserv. Or backchannel is welcome too.
I wouldn't even
be doing this topic, probably, if there hadn't been support
from people when
I first presented it here a while back.
Thanks guys.
><CYAN47I><
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:01:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/13/98 7:33:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, CYAN47I@AOL.COM
writes:
> I wouldn't
even be doing this topic, probably, if there hadn't been support
> from people when I first presented it here a
while back. Thanks guys.
> ><CYAN47I><
Hey! Thank you for dragging me back just as I
was sinking into the morass.
You reminded me
of the goodness we should hold onto at the core.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:42:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz
<CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Abe Lincoln
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
aw, shucks.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:47:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about DiPrima.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jo,
Why take his bait?
Consider the
source, and just ignore the tasteless, adolescent comment as
unworthy of
engaging your time, your concern, and your energy.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
On Fri, 13 Feb
1998, jo grant wrote:
> >One - It
was the right thing to say because I felt like saying it TO YOU.
> >There
are no rules of civility that I must follow when communicating with
> >Joe
Grant and Co.
>
> You comment
was wrong, is unacceptable, and PUBLICALLY I am informing you
> that I will
see you in Lowell and deal with your comments about my mother
> persoanlly..
> j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:11:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: yet another jeopardy! question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
another beat
question of jeopardy friday....category was "Who's
talking"
where clue was a character from a book and contestants had to
guess which
book....$500 clue was "Sal Paradise"....no one answered.
And this was the
tournament of champions!
*******
Jeff Taylor
jeff.taylor@vanderbilt.edu
taylorj@library.vanderbilt.edu
*******
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:15:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: who's beat on beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Some of you may
be familiar with the excerpts on the _Kerouac_ video of
his appearance on
Steve Allen's show. Asked by Steve Allen how he would
define
"Beat" (if I'm remembering correctly), Kerouac answered,
"Sympathetic."
Ask yourselves whose e-mailings to this list would fit
Kerouac's own
public definition and whose would not.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:34:20 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: correction! re: beats on the street photo
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hii guys i made a
whopper of a mistake when i sent fred boggins the
names to the
picture
it is our very
own jim stauffer in that picture on fred's page, not
gardner.
sorry james,
sorry all
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:04:51 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Levi Asher wrote:
> Not that there's anything wrong with
> sitting
around writing poetry (right Marie Countryman?).
>
> -nope not at
all, and nothing wrong with travelling 3,0000 miles to read
> it, which i
just did,
or riding a greyhound bus 29 hrs straight
into black night to read it and
schmoooz with a
group of poets ....
it's been a
natural progression for me: sitting around writing poems has led
to long distance
road and rail trips to read it and meet my pals both here
and there
(louisville).
have a good one,
levi
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:30:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> hi guys, i
see that three quarters of my mail still consists of beat
> bashing.
in the spirit of
getting on with what the list scope purports to be, i
typed out the
poems of corso and JK with an eye toward
> to beginning
discourse on the poems, the question i sked and the
> commentary
> i asked a
few questions, and began some commentary, but no one i think
> saw the
damned thing because fingers were too busily bustling about
> like
maddened bees from the hive. since i write poetry, i chose poems.
i didn't expect
to get a renaissance going, as i myself do not engage in
some topics
myself, but thouroughly enjoy reading the discussions, and
chime in once in
a while if i understand or feel i have something new to
offer.for
example,
> i thoroughly
enjoy diane
> carter's
posts on the texts, and the folks that respond. i don't
> respond
> much but i
read and enjoy them for the positive attitudesthe
> scholarship.
i
> am more of a
poet these days; hence the poetry selections,
is anyone
interested in taking up this thread?i have
read many posts
complaining about
the lack of conversation about the texts.
i offer you one.
any takers?
(coros's entire
pome is up for grabs, i typed out its beginning for
folks who may not
own a copy..
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:33:11 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Misdirected mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i got that
misdirected mail, too.
the name
whitehead was mentioned.
?is that rollo
whitehead? he's somebody i've been
trying to contact.
?does he have an
email?
?can somebody
help me locate him?
thanks
tkc
ps poe and
ginsberg are a great match. i wish i
could help with a
specific
reference, but i can't, other than to say poe is one of those
seminal figures
for everybody. revisionist historian
michael a hoffman
lll, who has a
web site, has written recently about poe as an anti
masonic activist,
and sees anti masonic symbolism in his stories, if
that's of any
interest.......
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:40:16 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Fire on the Mountain
Comments: To:
Bohemian List <bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The Columbia
Univ. radio station (WKCR 89.9 FM, New York)
is presenting a
country music festival this weekend
(2/14-2/15 [maybe
Mon too?]).
I'm a regular
listener of WKCR's great trio of music shows on
every Sunday:
Amazing Grace
8am-10am gospel
The Moonshine
Show 10am-12noon blue grass & old
timey
The Tennessee
Border Show 12noon-2pm country & honky tonk
These shows are
hosted by students and are commercial
free.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Gregory Severance
| morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/ <<<BULLDOG BREATH>>>
"Late in the
evening about sundown
high on the hill
and above the town
Uncle Pen played
the fiddle
Lord how it would
ring
you could hear it
talk
you could hear it
sing"
from "Uncle
Pen" by Bill Monroe
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:59:46 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Marie
Countryman wrote:
> is anyone
interested in taking up this thread?i have
read many posts
> complaining
about the lack of conversation about the texts.
> i offer you
one.
> any takers?
Corso's
"Elegiac Feelings American" is no doubt an eloquent tribute to
Jack
Kerouac. There are many expressions in
it of what the Beat vision
was really all
about:
"We come to
announce the human spirit in the name of beauty and truth."
For those of you
anxious to define Beat I would suggest that this is the
true Beat vision,
and all of the hitchhiking, drugs, sex, and battered
relationships
were merely byproducts of the search for the above.
But Corso's poem
also enters that same area as Visions of Cody, where
Cody's fate was
determined by his disillusionment with the American
dream. Corso writes,
"What hope
for the America so embodied in thee, O friend,
when the very same alcohol that
disembodied
your brother redman of his America,
disembodied ye--A plot to grab their
land, we
know--yet what plot to grab the
ungrabbable
land of one's spirit? Thy visionary America were
impossible to unvision--for when the
shades of
the windows of the spirit are
brought down, that
which was seen yet remain..."
And further on in
the poem:
"And what
has happened to our dream of beauteous
America Jack?
Did it look
beautiful to you, did it sound so too, in its cold
electric blue, that America that
spewed and
stenched your home, your good brain,
that
unreal fake America, the caricature
of America,
that plugged in a wall America...a gallon of
desperate whiskey a day it took ye to
look that
America in its disembodied
eye..."
Why lie all of
the blame on America? It took Kerouac a
gallon of whiskey
a day to look
himself in the eye. And his biggest
disappointment that
I can see is that
America was not grateful for his writings at the time.
And why compare it to the plight of Native
Americans? Not the same thing
at all. That was the disembodiment of an entire
people whose spiritual
connections were
in nature. As in this quote from Chief
Seattle in a
letter to
Washington:
"The shining
water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water
but the blood of
our ancesters. If we sell you our land,
you must
remember that it
is sacred. Each ghostly reflection in
the clear waters
of the lakes
tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The
water's murmur is
the voice of my father's father.
The rivers are our brothers. They quench our thirst. They carry our
canoes and feed
our children. So you must give to the
rivers the
kindness you
would give any brother.
If we sell you the land, remember that the
air is precious to us, that
the air shares
its spirit with all the life it supports.
The wind that
gave our
grandfather his first breath also receives her last sigh. The
wind also gives
our children the spirit of life. So if
we sell you our
land, you must
keep it apart and sacred, as a place where man can go to
taste the wind
that is sweetened by the meadow flowers."
Corso would have
us believe that America let Jack Kerouac down in the
same way it let
down the Native Americans. I don't buy
that concept
for a
minute. Although I'd love to hear from
some people that
do. Kerouac's
unhappiness didn't spring from the spirit of America, it
came from his own
psychology, his own soul. Corso continues, "And you,
Jack, poor Jack,
watched your father die, your America die, your God die,
your body
die..." The only thing that died was human life, don't put the
blame on America
or God. We all watch family and friends
die and get on
with our
lives. Kerouac's problem was that he
could not.
DC
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (only
for italo-american beat)-Dick a poetry by Antonio De Curtis.
Cc:
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\decurtis.gif;
In-Reply-To:
<70ae8d2a.34e4befd@aol.com>
References:
----------- in memoria di ----------------
Antonio De Curtis "Toto'"
Naples 15 february 1898 - Rome 15 april 1967
----------------------------------------------------
Dick by
Toto'
Tengo 'nu cane ch'e' fenomenale,
se chiama "Dick", 'o voglio bbene
assaie.
Si perdere l'avesse? Nun sia maie!
Per me sarebbe un lutto nazionale.
Li' 'aggio crisciuto comm'a 'nu guaglione
cu zucchero, biscotte e papparelle;
ll'aggio tirato su cu 'e mmullechelle
e ll'aggio dato buona educazione.
Gnorsi', mo e' gruosso. E' quase giuvinotto.
Capisce tutto... lle manca 'a parola.
E' cane 'e razza, tene bbona scola,
e' lupo alsaziano, e' poliziotto.
Chello ca mo ve conto e' molto bello.
In casa ha stabilito 'a gerarchia.
Vo' bene 'a mamma ch'e' 'a signora mia,
e a figliemo isso 'o tratta da fratello.
'E me se penza ca lle songo 'o pate:
si 'o guardo dinto a ll'uocchie mme capisce,
appizza 'e rrecchie, corre, m'ubbidisce,
e pe' fa' 'e pressa torna senza fiato.
Ogn'anno, 'int'a ll'estate, va in amore,
s'appecundrisce e mette 'o musso sotto.
St'anno s'e' 'nnammurato 'e na bassotta
ca nun ne vo' sape': nun e' in calore.
Povero Dick, soffre 'e che manera!
Porta pur'isso mpietto stu dulore:
e' cane, si'... ma tene pure 'o core
e 'o sango dinto 'e vvene... vo' 'a mugliera...
------------------------------------------------------
"Ebbene si',
anche io ho una anima beat! Suvvia...
---Antonio De Curtis
in arte Toto'
------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:03:03 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 14
Feb 1998 14:46:58...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:46:58 +0100 with subject "(only for
italo-american beat)-Dick
a poetry by Antonio
De Curtis." has
been
successfully
distributed to the BEAT-L list (248 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:34:48 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Mr. Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul,
Give it up. You give yourself and your damn quarterly a
bad name. In a bar, on
the street or in
person somewhat wound thrash you, yet you sit there smugly at
your keyboard
like a nasty 6 year old. Go home, No one
wants to play with you.
JS
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
> At 04:01 PM
2/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >J Grant
asked Paul Maher aka TKQ:
> > >In
the material you were looking at did JK ever say that he was fucking
>
>>whores, or anyone out of desperation?
> >
> >A
legitimate, restrained question, agreed I think given the bad blood
> >between
these two guys.
> >
> >But
Maher responded:
> > >
Yes , your mom. P.
> >
> >Oh
yes...I forgot...Mrs. Eaton was on that list too...she was double-teamed
> by Ginsberg
and Kerouac. Gosh darn it how unacademic of me. Now my
>
pseudointellectual beatness is tarnished. How will I ever impress V.J. Eaton
> once more?
Man oh man.....
> "We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:48:53 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<zman1956@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net>
From: zman1956@POSTOFFICE3.BELLATLANTIC.NET
Subject: Re: Beat Spirit
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Matthew,
I have read the
book Beat Spirit and found it to be very interested.
Funny at times,
candid, and somewhat helpful for anyone who desires
to write, paint,
or inspire to be a better musician.
For musicians the cut-up stuff from Big Bill
will be something I will
try with some of
my own music. All of today's music is basically a
tribute to W.B.,
look at the rappers now effecting folk artist. Yours
truly included.
Johnny Zarra
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:07:38 -0800
> From: Matthew Shelton
<matthew_shelton@yahoo.com>
> Recently
while looking through my local bookstore I found a book
> titled Beat
Spirit by Mel Ash. This book has
activities designed to
> teach the
Beat way of life. I was wondering if
anyone had read this
> book and if
they had any opinions about it, positive or negative.
>
> ==
>
-----------------------------------------------------
> Matthew
Shelton
>
matthew_shelton@mail.okbu.edu
>
-----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________
> DO YOU
YAHOO!?
> Get your
free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:44:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: descripion of single eccentric woman's
valentine day
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
first of all,
happy v-day to this rowdy crowd one and all
prescription:
1 california wine
(cheap. it took my last 3.50)
2. talk store owner into giving up a bag of
hersey's minatures, hell
i'm a steady
customer.
3. sing along
with my fave tunes, drinking wine and pillaging chocolates
at will.
4. put on jerry
really doing it live.
5. dance to my
cats
6. sing with the
silly boys.
7. dance to dave
matthew
8. crawl all over
the rug looking for that last nice packed piece of
hash.
oh well 7 out of
8 not bad.
matter of fact,
this is no different on v-day than when i wasn't single.
9.what does this
mean?
any way lets all
call it V-J day. hostilities down, dancing up, and turn
=up that volume,
marie- ok.
bye bye
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:19:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd:
Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
oops. this was meant for the whole list.
Return-Path:
<mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Received:
from relay09.mail.aol.com
(relay09.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.9]) by
air15.mail.aol.com (v38.1) with SMTP;
Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:35:34 1900
Received: from
melvax.sonoma.edu (melvax.sonoma.edu [130.157.12.42])
by relay09.mail.aol.com
(8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id XAA11978 for
<Sockmunkie@aol.com>;
Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:35:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from
mayhewe.sonoma.edu (SA-5EN39.sonoma.edu)
by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.1-10 #26271)
with SMTP id
<01ITJLTFC3O6BL125J@SONOMA.EDU> for Sockmunkie@aol.com; Fri,
13 Feb 1998 20:35:22 PST
Date: Fri, 13 Feb
1998 20:33:15 -0800
From: eric mayhew
<mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is
you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: Sockmunkie@aol.com
Reply-to:
mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Message-id:
<34E51E8B.5AC9@sonoma.edu>
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.0Gold (Win95; U)
References:
<371d85a.34e485ce@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding:
7bit
Sockmunkie@aol.com
wrote:
>
> us young
folk aren't claiming to "know" anything about the beat generation.
> all we can
do is make interpretations based on the art and archives and
>
letters. which, i presume, is more or
less what you are doing. even if
you
> have chilled
out with jack and allen, your perceptions would merely be an
>
interpreation of the truth. so back off.
>
> by the way
eric, our generation (i'm assuming the our since you called
> yourself
young) has some really good stuff going if you look beyond the best
> seller
trash. you should check it out. good poetry:
marge peircy.
>
chrystos. mendy knott. sandra cisneros.
was this to me,
or the list
you sent it to me
only
thanks for the
poetry options\
eric
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:20:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
diane, this seems
a bit cold blooded to me; it was written in an era that
was just
beginning to realize (ie stop the deceit) of what all was done to
the native
peoples of this continent. but i maintain that corso is not
saying that
america crushed jack: in the opening stanzas he makes it clear
that kerouac
failed to find his idealistic america and that this was a great
tragedy, as he
took the way out inside a bottle rather than argue, dialogue,
perhaps grow. and
of course god knows the man had enough
in his life that
was repressed or
sublimnated (via writing) angst.
so i read it
differently beginning right at the start(hich is the basic
elegy to jack and
his wonder andl failures both: again i quote the opening
stanzass with
some thoughts below
1
How inseperable
you and the America you saw yet was
never there to see: you and
America, like the
tree and the ground, are one
and the same; yet how
like a palm tree in the state
of Oregon....dead
ere it blossomed, like a snow
polar loping the
Miami-
How so that which
you were or hoped to be, and the
America not, the America you
saw yet could
not see
So like yet
unlike the ground from which you stemmed;
you stood upon America like a
rootless
flat bottomed tree; to the
squirrel there was no
divorcement in its hop of ground to its
climb
of tree...until it saw no acorn
fall, then it knew
there was no marriage between
the two; how
fruitless, how useless, the
sad unnaturalness
of nature; no wonder the dawn ceased
being
a joy...for what good the earth
and sun
when the tree inbetween is good
for nothing...the
inseparable trinity, once
disserviced, becomes a
cold fruitless meaningless
thrice-marked
deathlie in its awful
amputation...O butcher
the pork chop is not the
pig--The American
alien in America is a bitter
truncantation; and even
this elegy, dear Jack, shall
have a butchered
tree, a tree beaten to a pulp,
upon which it'll be
contained--no wonder no good
news can be
written on such bad news
----the trees are
rootless; which to me works on two levels: kerouac was a
rootless romantic
soul in the world, idealist who turned on himself in his
later days, even
moving from beloved lowell to florida, stopped being
interested in
life. even more rootless.
-----that all
players in the cast are cut off from roots and steadiness;
the native
americans contain roots and the evil idealism of manifest destiny
did them in.
and the image of
what makes something what it is often destroys it: the pig,
jack's
alcoholism, the tree who died so we could read this very poem (a few
more thaoughts
below)
O butcher
the pork chop is not the
pig--The American
alien in America is a bitter
truncantation; and even
this elegy, dear Jack, shall
have a butchered
tree, a tree beaten to a pulp,
upon which it'll be
contained--no wonder no good
news can be
written on such bad news
to me, corso is
an important romantic within beat literature,no matter his
rep as the bad
boy
also
i would wish to
clear up JK's death: one does not have a hemmorage in one's
esophagus unless
in an accident or a cirrhotic liver inability to any loger
filter blood.
same thing happe
ed to wsb's son, who went into coma, had
transplant done
and woke up
horrified to have someone else's body organ, as well as being
put out to find
he was still alive
wow am i
tangential today.
any other takers?
i want to hear
some different takes on the meaning of white shroud.
mc
Diane Carter wrote:
> > Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
> > is
anyone interested in taking up this thread?i have read many posts
> >
complaining about the lack of conversation about the texts.
> > i offer
you one.
> > any
takers?
>
> Corso's
"Elegiac Feelings American" is no doubt an eloquent tribute to
> Jack
Kerouac. There are many expressions in
it of what the Beat vision
> was really
all about:
>
> "We
come to announce the human spirit in the name of beauty and truth."
>
> For those of
you anxious to define Beat I would suggest that this is the
> true Beat
vision, and all of the hitchhiking, drugs, sex, and battered
>
relationships were merely byproducts of the search for the above.
>
> But Corso's
poem also enters that same area as Visions of Cody, where
> Cody's fate
was determined by his disillusionment with the American
> dream. Corso writes,
>
> "What
hope for the America so embodied in thee, O friend,
> when the very same alcohol that
disembodied
> your brother redman of his America,
> disembodied ye--A plot to grab
their land, we
> know--yet what plot to grab the
ungrabbable
> land of one's spirit? Thy visionary America were
> impossible to unvision--for when
the shades of
> the windows of the spirit are
brought down, that
> which was seen yet remain..."
>
> And further
on in the poem:
>
> "And
what has happened to our dream of beauteous
> America Jack?
> Did it look
beautiful to you, did it sound so too, in its cold
> electric blue, that America that
spewed and
> stenched your home, your good brain,
that
> unreal fake America, the caricature
of America,
> that plugged in a wall America...a
gallon of
> desperate whiskey a day it took ye
to look that
> America in its disembodied
eye..."
>
> Why lie all
of the blame on America? It took Kerouac
a gallon of whiskey
> a day to
look himself in the eye. And his biggest
disappointment that
> I can see is
that America was not grateful for his writings at the time.
> And why compare it to the plight of Native
Americans? Not the same thing
> at all. That was the disembodiment of an entire
people whose spiritual
> connections
were in nature. As in this quote from
Chief Seattle in a
> letter to
Washington:
>
> "The
shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water
> but the
blood of our ancesters. If we sell you
our land, you must
> remember
that it is sacred. Each ghostly
reflection in the clear waters
> of the lakes
tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The
> water's
murmur is the voice of my father's father.
> The rivers are our brothers. They quench our thirst. They carry our
> canoes and
feed our children. So you must give to
the rivers the
> kindness you
would give any brother.
> If we sell you the land, remember that the
air is precious to us, that
> the air
shares its spirit with all the life it supports. The wind that
> gave our
grandfather his first breath also receives her last sigh. The
> wind also
gives our children the spirit of life.
So if we sell you our
> land, you
must keep it apart and sacred, as a place where man can go to
> taste the
wind that is sweetened by the meadow flowers."
>
> Corso would
have us believe that America let Jack Kerouac down in the
> same way it
let down the Native Americans. I don't
buy that concept
> for a
minute. Although I'd love to hear from
some people that
> do.
Kerouac's unhappiness didn't spring from the spirit of America, it
> came from
his own psychology, his own soul. Corso continues, "And you,
> Jack, poor
Jack, watched your father die, your America die, your God die,
> your body
die..." The only thing that died was human life, don't put the
> blame on
America or God. We all watch family and
friends die and get on
> with our
lives. Kerouac's problem was that he
could not.
> DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:51:14 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: (only for italo-american beat)-Dick a
poetry by Antonio De
Curtis.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>
----------- in memoria di ----------------
> Antonio De Curtis "Toto'"
> Naples 15 february 1898 - Rome 15
april 1967
>
----------------------------------------------------
>
> Dick by Toto'
>
> Tengo 'nu cane ch'e' fenomenale,
> se chiama "Dick", 'o voglio
bbene assaie.
> Si perdere l'avesse? Nun sia maie!
> Per me sarebbe un lutto nazionale.
>
> Li' 'aggio crisciuto comm'a 'nu
guaglione
> cu zucchero, biscotte e papparelle;
> ll'aggio tirato su cu 'e mmullechelle
> e ll'aggio dato buona educazione.
>
> Gnorsi', mo e' gruosso. E' quase
giuvinotto.
> Capisce tutto... lle manca 'a parola.
> E' cane 'e razza, tene bbona scola,
> e' lupo alsaziano, e' poliziotto.
>
> Chello ca mo ve conto e' molto bello.
> In casa ha stabilito 'a gerarchia.
> Vo' bene 'a mamma ch'e' 'a signora
mia,
> e a figliemo isso 'o tratta da
fratello.
>
> 'E me se penza ca lle songo 'o pate:
> si 'o guardo dinto a ll'uocchie mme
capisce,
> appizza 'e rrecchie, corre, m'ubbidisce,
> e pe' fa' 'e pressa torna senza fiato.
>
> Ogn'anno, 'int'a ll'estate, va in
amore,
> s'appecundrisce e mette 'o musso
sotto.
> St'anno s'e' 'nnammurato 'e na
bassotta
> ca nun ne vo' sape': nun e' in calore.
>
> Povero Dick, soffre 'e che manera!
> Porta pur'isso mpietto stu dulore:
> e' cane, si'... ma tene pure 'o core
> e 'o sango dinto 'e vvene... vo' 'a
mugliera...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "Ebbene
si', anche io ho una anima beat! Suvvia...
>
---Antonio De Curtis
> in
arte Toto'
>
------------------------------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name:
decurtis.gif
> Part 1.2 Type: GIF Image (image/gif)
> Encoding: base64
who can actually
read this?
who can fill me
in on Italian beats?
just some simple
questions
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:21:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Name the author/text. . .
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"This is the
way it happened:
At the heart and
core of the most furious center of the
city's life --
below Broadway at Times Square -- a little
after one o'clock
in the morning, bewildered, aimless,
having no goal or
place to which I wished to go, with
the old chaos and
unrest inside me, I had thrust down
the stairs out of
the great thronging street, the tidal
swarm of atoms
who were pressing and hurrying forward
in as fierce a
haste to be hurled back into their cells again
as they had shown
when they had rushed out into the streets
that evening.
Thus, we streamed
down from free night into the tunnel's
stale and fetid
air again, we swarmed and hurried across
the floors of
gray cement, we thrust and pushed our way
along as
furiously as if we ran a race with time, as if some
great reward were
to be won if only we could save two
minutes, or as if
we were hastening onward, as fast as
we could go,
toward some glorious meeting, some happy
fortunate event,
some goal of beauty, wealth, or love on
whose shining
mark our eyes were fastened."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:44:19 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wednesday <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Records, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY 40473
Subject: v a l e n t i n e
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In memory of Al
Capone and his St.Valentine's Day Massacre, 1929.
this year
give out
valentines with anatomically correct hearts on them
give blood
give valentines
to the bums downtown
hand candy out to
the kids in the projects
this year
give the gift of
liquor
vote for leather
cherubs with pomade and wire cutters
go slumming with
cupid
bring a
switchblade and some pomes
this year
set up an old
phonograph on the street and
listen to Bo
Carter records
today was warm
but not quite warm enough for outdoor nudity. i gave out
valentines to all
who deserved them and even to some who did not because
my heart is a
hamloaf, big as life, radiant as a catholic icon and
frankly
delicious. i love each and every one of you for biologys own
sake in the
spirit of that great romantic, the marquis de sade. happy
valentines day
and may all yr herberts be huncke ones.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
j.s. holland,
village idiot
"active as
an atom since 1956"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:47:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: dig
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thank you
rinaldo. i do use the small pad method and try with first
thought best
thought(until the rewrites)
but most
importantly,
yes, i write
about my world which is by large a very common, poor but
with eyes wide open life,
and i can always
hear his voice joined in my in inner harmony when i
write the words.
marie
happy valentine's
day, heart brother
mc
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie says:
> >but no,
i'm not a beat.
> >i like
the beats.
> >i like
them a lot.
> >but no,
i don't consider myself a beat.
>
>individually yours,
> >mc
>
> i think:
> the pomes
written by marie countryman
> are
suggestive in a way that match the
> kerouac
common people life sketch
> ...
> And when you showed me Brooklyn Bridge
> in the morning,
> Ah God,
> And the people slipping on ice in the
street,
> ... hymn --jk
> ---
> rinaldo.
>
venice-mestre,
> italy.
> ---
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:50:15 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: v a l e n t i n e
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thank you, mr
holland.
much appreciated
to day by one such as me self/
mc
Wednesday wrote:
> In memory of
Al Capone and his St.Valentine's Day Massacre, 1929.
>
> this year
> give out valentines
with anatomically correct hearts on them
> give blood
> give
valentines to the bums downtown
> hand candy
out to the kids in the projects
> this year
> give the
gift of liquor
> vote for
leather cherubs with pomade and wire cutters
> go slumming
with cupid
> bring a
switchblade and some pomes
> this year
> set up an
old phonograph on the street and
> listen to Bo
Carter records
>
> today was
warm but not quite warm enough for outdoor nudity. i gave out
> valentines
to all who deserved them and even to some who did not because
> my heart is
a hamloaf, big as life, radiant as a catholic icon and
> frankly
delicious. i love each and every one of you for biologys own
> sake in the
spirit of that great romantic, the marquis de sade. happy
> valentines
day and may all yr herberts be huncke ones.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> j.s.
holland, village idiot
> "active
as an atom since 1956"
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: folk
beat. every italian is stranger in italy.
Cc:
Bcc:
mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34E5D992.6921@sonoma.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980214144658.00721acc@pop.gpnet.it>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
"Ebbene si', anche io ho una anima beat! Suvvia...
YES, FOLKS I HAVE A BEAT SOUL!
>>
---Antonio De Curtis
>> in
arte Toto'
FRIEND TO
PIER PAOLO
PASOLINI
>>
------------------------------------------------------
>
>who can
actually read this?
>who can fill
me in on Italian beats?
>just some
simple questions
>eric
>
eric,
there's italian
beat,
or better folk
beat... capisc'amme!
the myth of
america, the roman catholic background of JK,
Salvatore
Paradiso as main character in "On the Road",
there are many
italians in Sausalito? the folk beat is
not so lit as in
Us of America. pier paolo pasolini is
appreciated by
patti smith, the pope john paul I (papa
Luciani) is
appreciated by patti smith... btw Papa Luciani
told us that GOD
IS MOTHER. g-o-d i-s m-o-t-h-e-r !
saluti,
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: dig
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802121316.IAA28185@pike.sover.net>
References:
<19980212034337.2253.qmail@hotmail.com>
marie says:
>but no, i'm
not a beat.
>i like the
beats.
>i like them a
lot.
>but no, i
don't consider myself a beat.
>individually
yours,
>mc
i think:
the pomes written
by marie countryman
are suggestive in
a way that match the
kerouac common
people life sketch
...
And when you showed me Brooklyn Bridge
in the morning,
Ah
God,
And the people slipping on ice in the street,
... hymn --jk
---
rinaldo.
venice-mestre,
italy.
---
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:03:10 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 14
Feb 1998 23:53:40...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:53:40 +0100 with subject "dig" has
been successfully
distributed to the BEAT-L list (247 recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:03:11 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)" <LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 14
Feb 1998 23:36:13...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:36:13 +0100 with subject "folk beat.
every italian
is stranger in italy." has
been successfully distributed to
the BEAT-L list
(247 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:11:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Name the author/text. . .
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Umm..Herbert
Huncke?
On Sat, 14 Feb
1998, M. Cakebread wrote:
> "This
is the way it happened:
>
> At the heart
and core of the most furious center of the
> city's life
-- below Broadway at Times Square -- a little
> after one
o'clock in the morning, bewildered, aimless,
> having no
goal or place to which I wished to go, with
> the old
chaos and unrest inside me, I had thrust down
> the stairs
out of the great thronging street, the tidal
> swarm of
atoms who were pressing and hurrying forward
> in as fierce
a haste to be hurled back into their cells again
> as they had
shown when they had rushed out into the streets
> that
evening.
>
> Thus, we
streamed down from free night into the tunnel's
> stale and
fetid air again, we swarmed and hurried across
> the floors
of gray cement, we thrust and pushed our way
> along as
furiously as if we ran a race with time, as if some
> great reward
were to be won if only we could save two
> minutes, or
as if we were hastening onward, as fast as
> we could go,
toward some glorious meeting, some happy
> fortunate
event, some goal of beauty, wealth, or love on
> whose
shining mark our eyes were fastened."
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:28:41 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Milkman
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
None
Subject: Re: folk beat. every italian is stranger
in italy.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------
> >>
"Ebbene si', anche io ho una anima beat! Suvvia...
> YES, FOLKS I HAVE A BEAT SOUL!
>
>>
---Antonio De Curtis
>
>>
in arte Toto'
>
FRIEND TO
>
PIER PAOLO PASOLINI
> >>
------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >who can
actually read this?
> >who can
fill me in on Italian beats?
> >just
some simple questions
> >eric
> >
> eric,
> there's
italian beat,
> or better folk
beat... capisc'amme!
>
> the myth of
america, the roman catholic background of JK,
> Salvatore
Paradiso as main character in "On the Road",
> there are
many italians in Sausalito? the folk beat is
> not so lit
as in Us of America. pier paolo pasolini is
> appreciated
by patti smith, the pope john paul I (papa
> Luciani) is
appreciated by patti smith... btw Papa Luciani
> told us that
GOD IS MOTHER. g-o-d i-s m-o-t-h-e-r
!
>
> saluti,
> rinaldo.
Dear Rinaldo,
Are you a priest
or something? I don't mind learning some
Italian,
but it would be
interesting if you could put a translation next/
under your
Italian posts (like that prayer a while ago).
I would
LIKE to
understand what you're saying. Now if
only the pope would
grow to appreciate
Pasolini, that would be worth mentioning.
saluti,
Thomas
_L'important,
c'est pas la chute, c'est la terrissage_
_What's
important, isn't the fall, it's the landing_
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:29:01 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I can see Corso's
comparison of Kerouac and the Indians. I
think it
works
metaphorically. America's
hard-heartedness crushing everything
that was natural
and good. There's no doubt that Kerouac
bears
responsibilty for
his own fate but his disappointment in America, the
disparity he
found between the promise inherent in the American dream
and the sterile
world of 1950s U.S., certainly had some effect on his
psyche and his
art.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:53:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz <CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: v a l e n t i n e
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This is a special
Valentine's pour moi cuz this is the year I fell in luv with
the Beats!
Celebrate!
"Love. He is our deepest self. Mysterious, actual, delightful and sorrowful
at once, full of
gentility and imprudence, a beneficent spirit, a god acting
thru human
masks. He is the same in all, neither
man nor woman. We all have
the same sense of
bottom self. He is the solitary.
Thus
love others as the self. We are
incorruptible . . . The god
survives. Love is complete. There is more than can be given. None is wasted
no love is amiss
none goes astray none perishes . . . It never lacks because
it is All. It comes on the mind in visions. Watch for it coming! It enters
the house of the
body without your seeking." Allen
Ginsberg Journal july 11
1954
Just thought
everyone would like to read something you've all probably read a
million times
anyway, but just in time for the holidays
><CYAN><
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:10:10 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maggie Gerrity
<u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm getting ready to start a paper for my
American Lit. class
comparing and
contrasting _On the Road_ to Hemingway's _The Sun Also
Rises_.
Naturally, I've had no problem finding critical material
concerning the
latter, but I'm stuggling to find critical material on
JK and, more
specifically, OTR. Can anyone point me in the right
direction?
Thanks,
Maggie
==
"In dreams
begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:30:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mr Mojo Risin
<KrwlnKgSnk@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Books/OnTheRoad.html ~ this
page has a
outline of the 4
trips completed in the novel(on the road). check out the
hyperlink to jack
kerouac - it has links and a bio.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:15:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie-
I tried and the
closest thing I could find was 'Kerouac's Crooked Road' by
Tim Hunt
On Sat, 14 Feb
1998, Maggie Gerrity wrote:
> I'm getting ready to start a paper for my
American Lit. class
> comparing
and contrasting _On the Road_ to Hemingway's _The Sun Also
> Rises_.
Naturally, I've had no problem finding critical material
> concerning
the latter, but I'm stuggling to find critical material on
> JK and, more
specifically, OTR. Can anyone point me in the right
> direction?
> Thanks,
> Maggie
>
>
>
>
> ==
> "In
dreams begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
>
>
_________________________________________________________
> DO YOU
YAHOO!?
> Get your
free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:03:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TazminX@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Beat Spirit
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-14 16:02:16 EST, you write:
<< Recently while looking through my local
bookstore I found a book
> titled Beat Spirit by Mel Ash. This book has activities designed to
> teach the Beat way of life. I was wondering if anyone had read this
> book and if they had any opinions about
it, positive or negative.
> >>
positive: fun
activities, good general surface history of both main and
secondary players
negative: to me,
the author is pretentious and condescending more often than
not
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:07:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> I'm getting ready to start a paper for my
American Lit. class
>comparing and
contrasting _On the Road_ to Hemingway's _The Sun Also
>Rises_.
Naturally, I've had no problem finding critical material
>concerning
the latter, but I'm stuggling to find critical material on
>JK and, more
specifically, OTR. Can anyone point me in the right
>direction?
> Thanks,
> Maggie
>
Yes, Tim Hunt as
mentioned, also see Memory Babe by Nicosia for critical
material on it.
And most directly
there was a critical edition of On the Road published. I
am pretty sure it
is one of those Viking critical editions so find a
library that has
that (university is your best bet). It
had plenty of
essays and
questions all about On the Road.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:11:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>America's
hard-heartedness crushing everything
>that was
natural and good.
I don't
understand this statement.
What does it
mean?
>...and the
sterile world of 1950s U.S...
This also, what
does this mean? I have heard such a term
or description so
often that I
think it has become some sort of a priori conclusion or dogma.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:33:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sad Enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
Subject: a poem from the rain
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
SMASH YOUR ALARM
CLOCK
there are no
words of comfort
when the
conspiracy is in my chronology
and darwin was
close, he still gets a kiss
but today's
population is evolved monkey shit
i'm sad enough to
cry and somtimes i do
my ocean of tears
give me aquatic vision
as i watch the
forever forgotten robot slaves
who sleep in piss
and vomit
with their cum
dripping from sleeping finger tips
like a broken
water faucet.
movie star
posters are wall paper and blankets.
they need dreams,
they need screams
WAKE UP, YOU'RE
SCUM but your still alive
and am i under
your skin, are you under there?
just dirty
underwear? just another worry, who cares
the ghosts in my
head have more life than you
time is death
time is death TIME IS DEATH
save your breath,
until you remember.
it use to be fun
you know........
chad,
2-15-98
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Gramsci
Square a poetry by Eugenio Montale.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<70ae8d2a.34e4befd@aol.com>
References:
Gramsci Square by Eugenio Montale
Chaque jour je t'adore de plus en plus
I'd like to stay with you in Gramsci
Square
in the sunset, peeping at the rotten
mice
of the pathways - I would
go (in french tout de go), swift as
ray,
with you in the cloud of God, to
penetrate
the ice of Heaven and Hell.
--------------------------------------------
this poem reminds
me that today morning it's a warm mornin
the communists open
their head near the square i live, it's
a warm morning,
ok for all folks, specially cuz they are all
old people, sunny
place, and idle pigeons, and cats near the
chinese take away
shop, red flags at the entrance, these
reminds me the
eugenio montale's poetry. montale meet allen
ginsberg at a
party but refused to appreciate the beat poetry
cuz of he was
jealous, though he wrote nice poetry (in english),
note that antonio
gramsci is the founder of the actually
dismissed Italian
Communist Party, have a beautiful sunday all you,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
--------
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:37:17 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 15
Feb 1998 11:27:45...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:27:45 +0100
with subject "Gramsci
Square a poetry
by Eugenio Montale." has been successfully distributed to
the BEAT-L list
(252 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[131.238.71.133]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:28:09 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: what's going on?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
what's going on everyone?
is the beat-l down or something?...
i haven't gotten any beat mail in three
days...
or did i get kicked off?...
if i did...i'd like to know why...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:45:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a poem from the rain
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Chad
Damn fine poem podner
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:33:27 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reply to message
from julian42@HOTMAIL.COM of Fri, 13 Feb
Julian--
You've stated
many many times that your life is not that of the typical 18
year old
male. How do you define the normal life
of the 18 year
old male? Family?
College? Trying to still reach
that "american dream"?
I'm interested in
what _you_ think normal is. Most people
would probably
say that my life
was/is the "normal life for a (insert whatever age you want)
female,"
although I don't feel that way about it myself.
Diane.
(btw, I'm 22 if
anyone's wondering, but get carded at the movie theatre
because people
think I'm only 17)
>***** And
responding to your very first original post- Why have you
>"lived"
>more than
most people because you're bisexual and once roomed w/ a
>Wiccan? I
>find that to
be a little offensive.
>
>obviously you
didn't pay any attention...why do YOU think that's what i
>was saying...
>don't
minimize me..i have been through a lot..and there's a lot more to
>come..
>i just was
pointing out that my life is not the normal life of an 18 yr
>old male...
>and that i
feel more enriched by it..
>my trials and
tribulations have set me free...
--
---------------------------This
Space For Rent--------------------------------
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:37:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Sources for Research on JK
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Good sources to
begin research on JK & On The Road include:
Scott
Donaldson's
Viking Critical Edition of OTR, Robert Milewski's Jack
Kerouac: An
Annotated Bibliogrpahy Of Secondary Sokurces 1944-1979, my
entry in the
Facts on File Bibliography of U.S. Literature, and, of
course, the MLA
International Bibliography. All of these
materials
should be
available in any college and larger public libraries.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:42:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 14 Feb
1998 23:11:35 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>>America's
hard-heartedness crushing everything
>>that was
natural and good.
>
>I don't
understand this statement.
>
>What does it
mean?
>
>>...and
the sterile world of 1950s U.S...
>
>This also,
what does this mean? I have heard such a
term or description so
>often that I
think it has become some sort of a priori conclusion or dogma.
It has to do with
things like capitalism, manifest destiny, might makes right,
John Wayne ugly
Americanism. By sterile, I mean the
stress on conformity, the
celebration of "sameness" over individuality
and creativity -- man in the grey
flannel suit syndrome. Yes, all of this has become somewhat of a
cliche. But
there was a lot of truth to it.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:07:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz
<CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Updike wrote
a very interesting essay on the fifties.
I could try and
find it, if
anyone's interested. . .
><CYAN><
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:52:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Simply, one that
is done to put the poor male out of his misery, to shut him
up, to get rid of
him, etc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vj@pop.primenet.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:19:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Sources for Research on JK
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Snipping from
Bill Gargan's suggestions:
>Scott
Donaldson's Viking Critical Edition of OTR
>Robert
Milewski's Jack Kerouac: An Annotated Bibliogrpahy Of Secondary
Sorurces
1944-1979
>[Gargan's]
entry in the Facts on File Bibliography of U.S. Literature, and
>MLA International
Bibliography.
Also try:
The Kerouac
write-up (by George Dardess) in the Dictionary of Literary
Biography, The
Beats: Literary Bohemians in Postware America (Vol 16, Part
I). It's worth skimming, tho for bibliographic
references it is weak even
for then (1983).
Try also the Jack
Kerouac/ Robert Pinget Number of The Review of
Contemporary
Fiction (Summer 1983).
The what looks
like courier text will burn yr eyes out, but you'll find
articles (not all
re:OTR) from about the time K was going more mainstream
(meaning
attention in the universities). Nicosia
is in there, JCH, Mottram,
Weinrich,
Knight. Some perhaps a bit more
obscure: Ronna Johnson, Joy
Walsh (perhaps
overly in there). Tim Hunt of Kerouac's Crooked Road is in
there, which is
arguably one of the earliest attempts at a K critical
publication
(1981).
You get a better
smattering of bib in the Kerouac/Pinget than in the DLB.
Good hunting.
_____________________
Skydivers know
why the birds sing
V.J. Eaton
Tempe, AZ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[131.238.71.133]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:26:13 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ok, i'm back on...
i was removed...but out of technical needs...
i'm back
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:51:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adam Johansen
<adamjohansen@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Digest
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Is this list
available in a digest form because my ISPs mail-reader takes
*way* longer to
download loads of little files than a smaller number of big
files and its
taking forever for me to download the stuff on this list - it
takes between 5
and 10 minutes just to get a list of the titles of my
email!
If it is I'd
appreciate it if somebody could tell me how to cancel my
subscription to
the main list and resubscribe to the digest.
Thanks,
Adam
--
"We are hope
despite the times," REM
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:51:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adam Johansen
<adamjohansen@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Message text
written by "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
>
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
> >
> > And
yes, there *is* a Zen Buddhist way to say that Black is White, and
> > that
"lesser" arguments are the better. I do not invoke the Zen
Buddhist
> > way,
however; I am almost always being quite literal.
> >
> Of course
any discussion of Zen only clouds the mind.
>
> > Black
and White are both myths created by our primitive sensory
> >
abilities, by the way.
> >
> This is
sophistry of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
> defer to
your utter mastery of this great art. As we all know, it is
> impossible
to win any argument with such an opponent, since the rules of
> the game are
constantly changing.
Actually John,
Jeffrey is right, in a way. "Black" and "White" as colour
terms in English
are just the extremes of the spectrum, their significance
has been
culturally determined. For two interesting studies on the
development of
colour terms in language, see Brent Berlin and Paul Kay,
_Basic Color
Terms: Their Universality and Evolution_ (Berkeley:
University of
California Press, 1969) and Paul Kay and Chad McDaniel, "The
Linguistic
Significance of the Meanings of Basic Color Terms," _Language_,
54 (1978) 610-46.
There's lots of
fascinating stuff about basic colour terms cross language
barriers, and
there's actually a grammar that generates the system of all
basic colour
terms for any language according to the number of basic
colour terms in
it.
Neil
<
This whole thing
about colour is totally irrelevant apart from anything
else.
Black and white
exist. They are essentially intensities/combinations of
either high or
low intensities of electromagnetic radiation within the
visible spectrum.
Maybe colour is not the best word. Anyway, extemes of
the spectrum are
red and violet. If no visible light is present then
something
will appear
black. How would you recommend describing it? What about
the combination
of light in the visible spectrum which appears white?
But, more
importantly, DOES IT REALLY MATTER?
Adam
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:16:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
even though it it
a nice idea to write something comparing the hallmark of the
lost generation
with that of the beat generation, it seems like something many
people have
already done a paper on. even though i haven't yet read the sun
also rises, the
first time i heard of it and of the lost generation, i thought
to myself, now
there's a funny thing: the lost vs. the beat generation. so if
something like
that could occur to someone as inexperienced as me, i'm sure it
has been thought
of a thousand times over.
if you still want
to go ahead with the paper, i wish you all the best luck. do
let me know how
it turns out. =) sorry if i sounded too discouraging.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:07:25 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aeronwy Thomas
wrote:
>
> even though
it it a nice idea to write something comparing the hallmark of the
> lost
generation with that of the beat generation, it seems like something many
> people have
already done a paper on. even though i haven't yet read the sun
> also rises,
the first time i heard of it and of the lost generation, i thought
> to myself,
now there's a funny thing: the lost vs. the beat generation. so if
> something
like that could occur to someone as inexperienced as me, i'm sure it
> has been
thought of a thousand times over.
>
> if you still
want to go ahead with the paper, i wish you all the best luck. do
> let me know
how it turns out. =) sorry if i sounded too discouraging.
>
> aeronwy
maybe you should
read SAR, and compare the two. Then your
opinion will
have more basis.
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2002.0
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:07:48 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: "creature feature" (was: Re: Beats yes, )
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I agree with
Mr. Holland that I would rather be at a North Beach
Coffeehouse
>circa 1960
than a rock concert circa 1967. Beyond
that, he seemed to
>contribute
nothing more than a recitation of media driven stereotypes.
Here
>is some news
- the beats, at the time, got the same stereotypical
treatment -
>Beats were
supposed to be bongo playing, beret
wearing, unshaven, smelly
>slobs who
wrote really bad poetry. Beat women were
always very thin, slept
>with any man
at the snap of a finger and had a vocabular consisting of
"Daddy-
>O",
"groovy" and "cool".
Allen Ginsberg, for one, just hated this
stereotype.
hey, i've seen
these people on jeffrey's waterrow catalogue
but does any one
know alittle bit about pinballs?
there is one
called "the creature from the black lagoon" and as the story
goes sometimes
you lose your ball and then the display shows exactly this
beat-stereotype-guy
who sayz: "stay cool, daddy-o" because you got the ball
safer...
if you're not
into pinball you better erase this post but if you are, maybe
you can tell the
beat-lagoon connection?
later
moritz
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:45:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: marie's situation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
dear all
merie will be
offline due to purely technical difficulties until mid next
week. all is ok -
her server & password is being stubborn
yrs
derek
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:07:46 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Artaud: Letter to Buddhists
Comments: To:
Bohemian List <bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Here's the text
of:
Ancestors:
Antonin Artaud, _Tricycle: The Buddhist
Review_ 5, no.2
(Winter 1995), p. 13.
-----------------------------
Antonin Artaud
Letters to the
Schools of the Buddha
[On April 15,
1925, the French founder of the Theatre
of the Absurd,
Antonin Artaud (1896-1948) published
his "Letter
to the Schools of the Buddha" in the
third issue of
_La Revolution Surrealiste_. In the same
issue were
addresses to the Dalai Lama and the Pope
and a
"Letter to the Directors of the Insane Asylums."
The issue was
subtitled "1925: End of the Christian
Era."
Read in the context of the artistic
movement
from which it
came, Artaud's "Letter" is less an
espousal of
Buddhist ideas than an expression of
dissatisfaction
with the materialism of modern
society. That
dissatisfaction, in turn, led many
artists and
intellectuals to embrace Buddhism in
the twenties and
thirties, when gradually the actual
teachings of
Buddhism came more to the fore.]
{begin Artaud's
text, translated from the French
by Stephen
Batchelor, 1993}
You who are disincarnate, who know at what
point in its
carnal trajectory, its insensitive
coming and going,
that the soul finds the absolute
verb, the new
speech, the interior ground; you
who know how one
returns to oneself in thought
and how the
spirit can save itself from itself;
you who are
interior to yourselves; you for whom
the spirit is no
longer on the carnal plane, here
there are hands
for whom taking is not everything,
brains that see
further than a forest of roofs,
the glare of
facades, cog-wheel people and the
workings of fire
and marble. Advancing is this
people of iron;
advancing are words written with
the speed of
light; advancing towards each other
with the force of
bullets are the sexes: what
will change in
the avenues of the soul? in the
spasms of the
heart? in the despair of the spirit?
So hurl into the water all the blank white
men
who arrive with
their little heads and well-behaved
minds. It is
necessary that these dogs hear us;
we are not
speaking of ancient human ills. Our
spirit suffers
from needs other than those inherent
in life. We are
suffering from corruption, from the
corruption of
reason.
Logical Europe endlessly smashes the
spirit
between the
hammers of two terms. She wrenches it
open and shuts it
down. This strangulation has gone
far enough; for
too long have we been suffering
beneath the
harness. The Spirit is larger than
the spirit, the
metamorphoses of life are manifold.
Like you, we
abhor progress: come and tear down
our houses!
While our scribes still continue to write,
our journalists
to natter on, our critics to drone
away, our
politicians to hold forth and our
judicial
assassins to hatch their crimes in peace,
we know what life
really is. Our writers, thinkers,
doctors and
scribblers know exactly how to make
a mess of life.
While all these scribes drool upon
us, whether from
habit or compulsion, spiritual
emasculation or a
failure to apprehend nuance, in
this dull sludge,
on these turning grounds where
the highly
esteemed spirit of man is endlessly
shifting around,
we have harnessed thought the
best. Come Save
us from these worms. Invent new
houses for us.
{end of Artaud
text}
-----------------------------------------------
% % % % % % % % %
% % %
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
"Where even
Richard Nixon has got soul.
Even Richard Nixon has got it --
soul."
--Neil Young
["Campaigner"]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:46:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Why we *should* all read Diane DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
BRASS FURNACE
GOING OUT: Song, after an Abortion
by Diane DiPrima
I
to say I failed,
that is walked out
and into the
arctic
How shd I know where I
was ?
A man chants in
the courtyard
the window is open
someone else
drops a pecan pie
into the yard
two dogs down
there play trumpet
there is something
disturbed
about the melody.
and what of the
three year old girl who poisoned her mother ?
that happens, it
isn't just us, as you can see --
what you took with
you when you left
remains to be
seen.
II
I want you in a
bottle to send to your father
with a long
bitter note.I want him to know
I'll not forgive
you, or him for not being born
for drying up,
quitting
at the first harsh treatment
as if the whole
thing were a rent party
& somebody
stepped in your feet
III
send me your
address a picture, I want to
keep in touch, I
want to know how you
are, to send you
cookies.
do you have
enough sweaters, is the winter bad,
do you know what
I've done, what I'm doing
do you care
write in detail
of your day, what time you get up,
what you are
studying,when you expect
to finish &
what you will do.
is it chilly?
IV
your face
dissolving in water, like wet clay
washed away, like
a rotten water lily
rats on the
riverbank barking at the sight
do they swim ?
the trees here
walk right down to the edge
conversing
your body sank, a
good way back
I hear the otters
will bring it to the surface
and the wailing
mosquitoes even stop to examine
the last melting
details of eyelid & cheeckbone
the stagnant
blood
who taught you
not to tangle your hair in the seaweed
to disappear with
finesse
the lion pads
along the difficult
path
in the heart of
the jungle
and comes to the
riverbank
he paws your face
I wish he would
drink it up
in that strong
gut it would come
to life.
but he waits till he floats
a distance
drinks clean water
dances a little
starts the long walk
again
the silent giraffe lets loose
a mourning cry
fish surface
your mouth and the end of your nose
disappear.
the water was
cold the day you slipped into the river
wind ruffled the
surface, I carried you on my back
a good distance,
then you slipped in
red ants started
up my leg & changed their minds
I fed my eyeballs
to a carnivorous snake
& chained
myself to a tree to await your end.
your face no
sooner dissolved than I thought I saw
a kneecap
sticking up where the current is strongest
a turtle
older than stars
walked on your
bones
V
who forged this
night, what steel
clamps down?
like gray pajamas
on an invalid
if I knew the
name of flowers, the habits
of quadrupeds,
the 13 points of the compass ......
an aged mapmaker
who lived on this street
just succumbed to
rheumatism
I have cut the
shroud to measure
bought the stone
a plot in the
cemetery set aside
to bury your shadow
take your head
& go!
& may the
woman that you find know better
than talk to me
about it
VI
your goddamned
belly rotten, a home for flies.
blown out &
stinking, the maggots curling your hair
your useless
neverused cock, the pitiful skull
the pitiful shell
of a skull, dumped in the toilet
the violet,
translucent folds
of beginning life
VII
what is that I
cannot bear to say ?
that if you had
turned out mad, a murderer
a junkie pimp
hanged & burning in lime
alone & filled w/the rotting dark
if you'd been
frail and a little given to weirdness
or starved or
been shot, or tortured in hunger camps
if wd have been
frolic & triumph compared to this --
I cant even cry
for you,I cant hang on
that long
VIII
forgive, forgive
that the cosmic
waters do not turn from me
that I should not
die of thirst
IX
oranges &
jade at the shrine
my footprints
wet on the stone
the bells in that
clear air
wind from the sea
your shadow
flat on the flat
rocks
the priestess
(sybil)
spelling your
name
crying out,
behind copper doors
giving birth
atone
, silence, the air
moving outside
the door to the
temple blowing on its hinges
thet was the
spirit she said
it passed above
you
the branch I
carry home is mistletoe
& walk
backwards, with my eyes on the sea
X
here in my room I
sit at drawing table
as I have sat all
day, or walked
from drawing
table to bed,
or stopped at
window
considering the
things to be done
weighing them in the hand and putting them down
hung up as the
young Rilke.
here in my room
all day on my couch a stranger
who does not
speak
who does not take
his eyes
off me as I walk
& walk from table to bed.
and I cannot stop
thinking I would be three months pregnant
we would be well
out of here & in the sun
even the
telephone would be polite
we would laugh a
lot, in the morning.
XI
your ivory teeth
in the half light
your arms
flailing
about.that is you
age 9 months
sitting up & trying to
stand
cutting teeth.
your diaper trailing, a
formality
elegant as a
loincloth, the sweet stench
of babyshit in
the house: the oil
rubbed into your
hair.
blue off the moon
your ghostshape
mistaken as brken tooth
your flesh
rejected
never to grow - your hands
that should have
closed around my finger
what moonlight
will play in your hair ?
I mean to say
dear fish, I hope you swim
in another river.
I hope that
wasn't
rebuttal, but a
transfer, an attempt
that failed, but
to be followed
quickly by another
suck your thumb
somewhere
Dear silly thing,
explode
make someone's
colors.
the senses (five)
a gift
to hear,see ,
touch, choke on & love
this life
the rotten globe
to walk in shoes
what apple doesnt
get
at least this much ?
a caramel candy
sticking in your teeth
you, age three
bugged
bearing down on a sliding pond.
your pulled tooth
in my hand
(age six)
your hair with
clay in it,
your
goddamn grin
XII
sun on the green
plants, your prattle
among the vines.
that this possibility
is closed to us.
my house is
small, my windows look out on grey courtyard
there is no view
of the sea.
will you come
here again ? I will entertain you
as well as I can
- I will make you comfortable
in spite of new
york .
will
you
come here
again
my breasts
prepare
to feed you :
they do what they can
_____________
This is the only
other poem (written by someone I don't know) to ever make me
cry besides
"Howl". Hope you guys like it too.
Can you believe I
had to special order a copy of her selected poems? It's
nuts. And most
places couldn't even *get* me a copy- only "Memoirs of a
Beatnik". Oh
well. It comes in on Thursday (hopefully)
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:47:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/15/98 6:05:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU
writes:
> .I think
this refutes anyone's perception of Diane
> DiPrima as a mere Beat-groupie or hanger-on.
Thanks, Stephanie!
> --Sara
Someone compared
Diane to Pam DesBarres, and I guess by extension was calling
her a
groupie. I don't think of DiPrima as a
groupie. She was
there...writing,
reading in coffee houses, and publishing right along with the
rest of the male
beats. She was not a sexual service
station like DesBarres
and the other
groupies and hangers on in the rock world.
She was one of the
artists.
Suppose, I know something about your sexual
history...if you write something
about it...you
publicize it, as Diane did, I feel a perfect right to comment
on what you have
written...even to the extent of questioning your veracity. I
do not feel I
have a right to say ugly things regarding your physical
appearance,
sexual desireability, or to make
suppositions about the motives
of your lovers,
as at least one list member saw fit to do. DiPrima is a living
human person with
children. She, or her children, may lurk
on this list.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:28:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have never seen
a large audience of attentive faces listening in such awed
silence as when
Diane Deprima read her poetry at the University of
California Santa
Cruz last year. You could hear a pin drop. Listening to her
read her poetry
that spanned an entire generation provided me the most
inspiring moments
of the year 1997. It was not possible to feel anything
less than utmost
respect and appreciation for the privilege of witnessing
this amazing
person in action. She is still immersed in work. Her stature
and the
enlightenment that her work provides will only grow as time goes on.
I have no doubrt
about that.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Zucchini4@AOL.COM <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sunday,
February 15, 1998 5:49 PM
Subject: Why we
*should* all read Diane DiPrima
>BRASS FURNACE
GOING OUT: Song, after an Abortion
> by Diane
DiPrima
>I
>to say I
failed, that is walked out
>and into the
arctic
> How shd I know where I
was ?
>A man chants
in the courtyard
> the window is open
>someone else
drops a pecan pie
> into the yard
>two dogs down
there play trumpet
> there is something
disturbed
>about the
melody.
>
>and what of
the three year old girl who poisoned her mother ?
>that happens,
it isn't just us, as you can see --
>what you took
with you when you left
>remains to be
seen.
>II
>I want you in
a bottle to send to your father
>with a long
bitter note.I want him to know
>I'll not
forgive you, or him for not being born
>for drying
up, quitting
> at the first harsh
treatment
>as if the
whole thing were a rent party
>&
somebody stepped in your feet
>III
>send me your
address a picture, I want to
>keep in
touch, I want to know how you
>are, to send
you cookies.
>
>do you have
enough sweaters, is the winter bad,
>do you know
what I've done, what I'm doing
>do you care
>write in
detail of your day, what time you get up,
>what you are
studying,when you expect
>to finish
& what you will do.
>is it chilly?
>IV
>your face
dissolving in water, like wet clay
>washed away,
like a rotten water lily
>rats on the
riverbank barking at the sight
>do they swim
?
>the trees
here walk right down to the edge
>conversing
>your body
sank, a good way back
>I hear the
otters will bring it to the surface
>
>and the
wailing mosquitoes even stop to examine
>the last
melting details of eyelid & cheeckbone
>the stagnant
blood
>who taught
you not to tangle your hair in the seaweed
>to disappear
with finesse
>
>the lion pads
> along the difficult
path
>in the heart
of the jungle
>and comes to
the riverbank
>he paws your
face
>I wish he
would drink it up
>in that
strong gut it would come
>to life.
> but he waits till he floats
>a distance
> drinks clean water
>dances a
little
> starts the long walk
>again
>
> the silent giraffe lets loose
>a mourning
cry
> fish surface
> your mouth and the end of your nose
>disappear.
>
>the water was
cold the day you slipped into the river
>wind ruffled
the surface, I carried you on my back
>a good
distance, then you slipped in
>red ants
started up my leg & changed their minds
>I fed my
eyeballs to a carnivorous snake
>& chained
myself to a tree to await your end.
>your face no
sooner dissolved than I thought I saw
>a kneecap
sticking up where the current is strongest
>a turtle
> older than stars
>walked on
your bones
>V
>who forged
this night, what steel
>clamps down?
>like gray
pajamas on an invalid
>if I knew the
name of flowers, the habits
>of
quadrupeds, the 13 points of the compass ......
>an aged
mapmaker who lived on this street
>just
succumbed to rheumatism
>
>I have cut
the shroud to measure
> bought the stone
>a plot in the
cemetery set aside
> to bury your shadow
>take your
head & go!
>& may the
woman that you find know better
>than talk to
me about it
>VI
>your
goddamned belly rotten, a home for flies.
>blown out
& stinking, the maggots curling your
hair
>your useless
neverused cock, the pitiful skull
>the pitiful
shell of a skull, dumped in the toilet
>the violet,
translucent folds
> of
beginning life
>VII
>what is that
I cannot bear to say ?
>that if you
had turned out mad, a murderer
>a junkie pimp
hanged & burning in lime
> alone & filled
w/the rotting dark
>if you'd been
frail and a little given to weirdness
>or starved or
been shot, or tortured in hunger camps
>if wd have
been frolic & triumph compared to this --
>
>I cant even
cry for you,I cant hang on
>that long
>VIII
>forgive,
forgive
>that the
cosmic waters do not turn from me
>that I should
not die of thirst
>IX
>oranges &
jade at the shrine
>my footprints
>wet on the
stone
>the bells in
that clear air
>wind from the
sea
>your shadow
>flat on the
flat rocks
>the priestess
(sybil)
>spelling your
name
>crying out,
behind copper doors
>giving birth
>atone
> , silence, the air
>moving
outside
>the door to
the temple blowing on its hinges
>thet was the
spirit she said
>it passed
above you
>
>the branch I
carry home is mistletoe
>& walk
backwards, with my eyes on the sea
>X
>here in my
room I sit at drawing table
>as I have sat
all day, or walked
>from drawing
table to bed,
>or stopped at
window
>considering
the things to be done
>weighing them in the hand and putting them down
>hung up as
the young Rilke.
>here in my
room all day on my couch a stranger
>who does not
speak
>who does not
take his eyes
>off me as I
walk & walk from table to bed.
>
>and I cannot
stop thinking I would be three months pregnant
>we would be
well out of here & in the sun
>even the
telephone would be polite
>we would
laugh a lot, in the morning.
>XI
>your ivory
teeth in the half light
>your arms
>flailing
about.that is you
>age 9 months
> sitting up & trying to
stand
>cutting
teeth.
> your diaper trailing, a
formality
>elegant as a
loincloth, the sweet stench
>of babyshit
in the house: the oil
>rubbed into
your hair.
>blue off the
moon your ghostshape
> mistaken as brken tooth
>your flesh
rejected
> never to grow - your hands
>that should
have closed around my finger
>
>what
moonlight
> will play in your hair ?
>I mean to say
> dear fish, I hope you swim
>
>in another
river.
>I hope that
wasn't
>rebuttal, but
a transfer, an attempt
>that failed,
but to be followed
> quickly by another
>suck your
thumb somewhere
>Dear silly
thing, explode
>make
someone's colors.
>
>the senses
(five)
> a gift
>to hear,see ,
touch, choke on & love
>this life
>the rotten
globe
>to walk in
shoes
>what apple
doesnt get
> at least this much ?
>
>a caramel
candy sticking in your teeth
>you, age
three
>bugged
> bearing down on a sliding pond.
>your pulled
tooth in my hand
> (age six)
>your hair
with clay in it,
> your
goddamn grin
>XII
>sun on the
green plants, your prattle
>among the
vines.
>that this
possibility is closed to us.
>my house is
small, my windows look out on grey courtyard
>there is no
view of the sea.
>will you come
here again ? I will entertain you
>as well as I
can - I will make you comfortable
>in spite of
new york .
>
>will
>you
>come here
>again
>
>my breasts
prepare
>to feed you :
they do what they can
>_____________
>This is the
only other poem (written by someone I don't know) to ever make
me
>cry besides
"Howl". Hope you guys like it too.
>
>Can you
believe I had to special order a copy of her selected poems? It's
>nuts. And
most places couldn't even *get* me a copy- only "Memoirs of a
>Beatnik".
Oh well. It comes in on Thursday (hopefully)
>
>--Stephanie
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:08:22 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It was also the
period in which rock 'n' roll was born.
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, James Stauffer wrote:
> >
>>...and the sterile world of 1950s U.S...
> > >
> >
>This also, what does this mean? I
have heard such a term or description so
> >
>often that I think it has become some sort of a priori conclusion or dogma.
> >
> > It has
to do with things like capitalism, manifest destiny, might makes
right,
> > John
Wayne ugly Americanism. By sterile, I
mean the stress on conformity,
> the
> > celebration of "sameness" over
individuality and creativity -- man in the
> grey
> > flannel suit syndrome. Yes, all of this has become somewhat of a
cliche.
> But
> > there was a lot of truth to it.
>
> I think that both Tim and Bill have
interesting arguments. As one who
> remembers
> the fifties
as a young adolescent--sure, what Bill says is true, but this was
> also
> an era that
produced an enormous amount of good stuff in art, literature, and
> film. Maybe it's because I was that young--got my
drivers liscense in
1958--but
> it
> was a fun
country too--more rural, a hell of a lot less of it paved and
> interstated,
it was sexy too, it was James Dean and Chet Baker and Marilyn
> Monroe
> and Natalie
Wood. A
lot more conformity, for sure, but it sure was easy to
be
> a
> rebel. There was the bomb, to be sure, hanging over
us all, but we were
unaware
> of
> the lurking
ecological disaster, of Aids, or a whole lot of things. I just
> don't
> find the
50's sterile, certainly there was a pause after the depression and
the
> war--but if
such a thing were possible I don't know if I wouldn't gladly time
> trip
> back to that
era for awhile. The energy and vitality
were amazing--look at
> those
> pictures of
Jack and Neal--they radiate a wonderful sort of juice. I don't
> know,
> but a couple
of days in a 56 Chevy back in the California in the 50's--doesn't
> sound too
bad to me.
>
> JS
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:30:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mr Mojo Risin
<KrwlnKgSnk@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Books/OnTheRoad.html ~ this
page has a
outline of the 4
trips completed in the novel(on the road). check out the
hyperlink to jack
kerouac - it has links and a bio.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:15:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Maggie-
I tried and the
closest thing I could find was 'Kerouac's Crooked Road' by
Tim Hunt
On Sat, 14 Feb
1998, Maggie Gerrity wrote:
> I'm getting ready to start a paper for my
American Lit. class
> comparing
and contrasting _On the Road_ to Hemingway's _The Sun Also
> Rises_.
Naturally, I've had no problem finding critical material
> concerning
the latter, but I'm stuggling to find critical material on
> JK and, more
specifically, OTR. Can anyone point me in the right
> direction?
> Thanks,
> Maggie
>
>
>
>
> ==
> "In
dreams begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
>
>
_________________________________________________________
> DO YOU
YAHOO!?
> Get your
free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:03:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TazminX@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Beat Spirit
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-14 16:02:16 EST, you write:
<< Recently while looking through my local
bookstore I found a book
> titled Beat Spirit by Mel Ash. This book has activities designed to
> teach the Beat way of life. I was wondering if anyone had read this
> book and if they had any opinions about
it, positive or negative.
> >>
positive: fun
activities, good general surface history of both main and
secondary players
negative: to me,
the author is pretentious and condescending more often than
not
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:07:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> I'm getting ready to start a paper for my
American Lit. class
>comparing and
contrasting _On the Road_ to Hemingway's _The Sun Also
>Rises_.
Naturally, I've had no problem finding critical material
>concerning
the latter, but I'm stuggling to find critical material on
>JK and, more
specifically, OTR. Can anyone point me in the right
>direction?
> Thanks,
> Maggie
>
Yes, Tim Hunt as
mentioned, also see Memory Babe by Nicosia for critical
material on it.
And most directly
there was a critical edition of On the Road published. I
am pretty sure it
is one of those Viking critical editions so find a
library that has
that (university is your best bet). It
had plenty of
essays and
questions all about On the Road.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:11:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>America's
hard-heartedness crushing everything
>that was
natural and good.
I don't
understand this statement.
What does it
mean?
>...and the sterile
world of 1950s U.S...
This also, what
does this mean? I have heard such a term
or description so
often that I
think it has become some sort of a priori conclusion or dogma.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:33:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sad Enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>
Subject: a poem from the rain
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
SMASH YOUR ALARM
CLOCK
there are no
words of comfort
when the
conspiracy is in my chronology
and darwin was
close, he still gets a kiss
but today's
population is evolved monkey shit
i'm sad enough to
cry and somtimes i do
my ocean of tears
give me aquatic vision
as i watch the
forever forgotten robot slaves
who sleep in piss
and vomit
with their cum
dripping from sleeping finger tips
like a broken
water faucet.
movie star
posters are wall paper and blankets.
they need dreams,
they need screams
WAKE UP, YOU'RE
SCUM but your still alive
and am i under
your skin, are you under there?
just dirty
underwear? just another worry, who cares
the ghosts in my
head have more life than you
time is death
time is death TIME IS DEATH
save your breath,
until you remember.
it use to be fun
you know........
chad,
2-15-98
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Gramsci
Square a poetry by Eugenio Montale.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<70ae8d2a.34e4befd@aol.com>
References:
Gramsci Square by Eugenio Montale
Chaque jour je t'adore de plus en plus
I'd like to stay with you in Gramsci
Square
in the sunset, peeping at the rotten
mice
of the pathways - I would
go (in french tout de go), swift as
ray,
with you in the cloud of God, to
penetrate
the ice of Heaven and Hell.
--------------------------------------------
this poem reminds
me that today morning it's a warm mornin
the communists
open their head near the square i live, it's
a warm morning,
ok for all folks, specially cuz they are all
old people, sunny
place, and idle pigeons, and cats near the
chinese take away
shop, red flags at the entrance, these
reminds me the
eugenio montale's poetry. montale meet allen
ginsberg at a
party but refused to appreciate the beat poetry
cuz of he was
jealous, though he wrote nice poetry (in english),
note that antonio
gramsci is the founder of the actually
dismissed Italian
Communist Party, have a beautiful sunday all you,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
--------
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:37:17 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)" <LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 15
Feb 1998 11:27:45...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:27:45 +0100
with subject "Gramsci
Square a poetry
by Eugenio Montale." has been successfully distributed to
the BEAT-L list
(252 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[131.238.71.133]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:28:09 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: what's going on?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
what's going on everyone?
is the beat-l down or something?...
i haven't gotten any beat mail in three
days...
or did i get kicked off?...
if i did...i'd like to know why...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:45:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gene Lee <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a poem from the rain
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Chad
Damn fine poem podner
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:33:27 -0500
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: doing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Reply to message
from julian42@HOTMAIL.COM of Fri, 13 Feb
Julian--
You've stated
many many times that your life is not that of the typical 18
year old
male. How do you define the normal life
of the 18 year
old male? Family?
College? Trying to still reach
that "american dream"?
I'm interested in
what _you_ think normal is. Most people
would probably
say that my life
was/is the "normal life for a (insert whatever age you want)
female,"
although I don't feel that way about it myself.
Diane.
(btw, I'm 22 if
anyone's wondering, but get carded at the movie theatre
because people
think I'm only 17)
>***** And
responding to your very first original post- Why have you
>"lived"
>more than
most people because you're bisexual and once roomed w/ a
>Wiccan? I
>find that to
be a little offensive.
>
>obviously you
didn't pay any attention...why do YOU think that's what i
>was saying...
>don't
minimize me..i have been through a lot..and there's a lot more to
>come..
>i just was
pointing out that my life is not the normal life of an 18 yr
>old male...
>and that i
feel more enriched by it..
>my trials and
tribulations have set me free...
--
---------------------------This
Space For Rent--------------------------------
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:37:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Sources for Research on JK
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Good sources to
begin research on JK & On The Road include:
Scott
Donaldson's Viking
Critical Edition of OTR, Robert Milewski's Jack
Kerouac: An
Annotated Bibliogrpahy Of Secondary Sokurces 1944-1979, my
entry in the
Facts on File Bibliography of U.S. Literature, and, of
course, the MLA
International Bibliography. All of these
materials
should be
available in any college and larger public libraries.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:42:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 14 Feb
1998 23:11:35 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>>America's
hard-heartedness crushing everything
>>that was
natural and good.
>
>I don't
understand this statement.
>
>What does it
mean?
>
>>...and
the sterile world of 1950s U.S...
>
>This also,
what does this mean? I have heard such a
term or description so
>often that I
think it has become some sort of a priori conclusion or dogma.
It has to do with
things like capitalism, manifest destiny, might makes right,
John Wayne ugly
Americanism. By sterile, I mean the
stress on conformity, the
celebration of "sameness" over
individuality and creativity -- man in the grey
flannel suit syndrome. Yes, all of this has become somewhat of a
cliche. But
there was a lot of truth to it.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:07:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cheyanne C Ritz
<CYAN47I@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
John Updike wrote
a very interesting essay on the fifties.
I could try and
find it, if
anyone's interested. . .
><CYAN><
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:52:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Simply, one that
is done to put the poor male out of his misery, to shut him
up, to get rid of
him, etc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vj@pop.primenet.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:19:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Sources for Research on JK
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Snipping from
Bill Gargan's suggestions:
>Scott
Donaldson's Viking Critical Edition of OTR
>Robert
Milewski's Jack Kerouac: An Annotated Bibliogrpahy Of Secondary
Sorurces
1944-1979
>[Gargan's]
entry in the Facts on File Bibliography of U.S. Literature, and
>MLA
International Bibliography.
Also try:
The Kerouac
write-up (by George Dardess) in the Dictionary of Literary
Biography, The
Beats: Literary Bohemians in Postware America (Vol 16, Part
I). It's worth skimming, tho for bibliographic
references it is weak even
for then (1983).
Try also the Jack
Kerouac/ Robert Pinget Number of The Review of
Contemporary
Fiction (Summer 1983).
The what looks
like courier text will burn yr eyes out, but you'll find
articles (not all
re:OTR) from about the time K was going more mainstream
(meaning
attention in the universities). Nicosia
is in there, JCH, Mottram,
Weinrich,
Knight. Some perhaps a bit more
obscure: Ronna Johnson, Joy
Walsh (perhaps
overly in there). Tim Hunt of Kerouac's Crooked Road is in
there, which is
arguably one of the earliest attempts at a K critical
publication
(1981).
You get a better
smattering of bib in the Kerouac/Pinget than in the DLB.
Good hunting.
_____________________
Skydivers know
why the birds sing
V.J. Eaton
Tempe, AZ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[131.238.71.133]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:26:13 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ok, i'm back on...
i was removed...but out of technical needs...
i'm back
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:51:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adam Johansen
<adamjohansen@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Digest
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Is this list
available in a digest form because my ISPs mail-reader takes
*way* longer to
download loads of little files than a smaller number of big
files and its
taking forever for me to download the stuff on this list - it
takes between 5
and 10 minutes just to get a list of the titles of my
email!
If it is I'd
appreciate it if somebody could tell me how to cancel my
subscription to
the main list and resubscribe to the digest.
Thanks,
Adam
--
"We are hope
despite the times," REM
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:51:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adam Johansen
<adamjohansen@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Black = White (was: Buncha' bores!)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Message text
written by "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
>
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
> >
> > And
yes, there *is* a Zen Buddhist way to say that Black is White, and
> > that
"lesser" arguments are the better. I do not invoke the Zen
Buddhist
> > way,
however; I am almost always being quite literal.
> >
> Of course
any discussion of Zen only clouds the mind.
>
> > Black
and White are both myths created by our primitive sensory
> >
abilities, by the way.
> >
> This is
sophistry of such simple beauty and purity that I forced to
> defer to
your utter mastery of this great art. As we all know, it is
> impossible
to win any argument with such an opponent, since the rules of
> the game are
constantly changing.
Actually John,
Jeffrey is right, in a way. "Black" and "White" as colour
terms in English
are just the extremes of the spectrum, their significance
has been culturally
determined. For two interesting studies on the
development of
colour terms in language, see Brent Berlin and Paul Kay,
_Basic Color
Terms: Their Universality and Evolution_ (Berkeley:
University of
California Press, 1969) and Paul Kay and Chad McDaniel, "The
Linguistic
Significance of the Meanings of Basic Color Terms," _Language_,
54 (1978) 610-46.
There's lots of
fascinating stuff about basic colour terms cross language
barriers, and
there's actually a grammar that generates the system of all
basic colour
terms for any language according to the number of basic
colour terms in
it.
Neil
<
This whole thing
about colour is totally irrelevant apart from anything
else.
Black and white
exist. They are essentially intensities/combinations of
either high or
low intensities of electromagnetic radiation within the
visible spectrum.
Maybe colour is not the best word. Anyway, extemes of
the spectrum are
red and violet. If no visible light is present then
something
will appear
black. How would you recommend describing it? What about
the combination
of light in the visible spectrum which appears white?
But, more
importantly, DOES IT REALLY MATTER?
Adam
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:16:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwy Thomas
<Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
even though it it
a nice idea to write something comparing the hallmark of the
lost generation
with that of the beat generation, it seems like something many
people have
already done a paper on. even though i haven't yet read the sun
also rises, the
first time i heard of it and of the lost generation, i thought
to myself, now
there's a funny thing: the lost vs. the beat generation. so if
something like
that could occur to someone as inexperienced as me, i'm sure it
has been thought
of a thousand times over.
if you still want
to go ahead with the paper, i wish you all the best luck. do
let me know how
it turns out. =) sorry if i sounded too discouraging.
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:07:25 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: on the road vs. the sun also rises
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aeronwy Thomas
wrote:
>
> even though
it it a nice idea to write something comparing the hallmark of the
> lost
generation with that of the beat generation, it seems like something many
> people have
already done a paper on. even though i haven't yet read the sun
> also rises,
the first time i heard of it and of the lost generation, i thought
> to myself,
now there's a funny thing: the lost vs. the beat generation. so if
> something
like that could occur to someone as inexperienced as me, i'm sure it
> has been
thought of a thousand times over.
>
> if you still
want to go ahead with the paper, i wish you all the best luck. do
> let me know
how it turns out. =) sorry if i sounded too discouraging.
>
> aeronwy
maybe you should
read SAR, and compare the two. Then your
opinion will
have more basis.
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2002.0
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:07:48 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: "creature feature" (was: Re: Beats yes, )
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I agree with
Mr. Holland that I would rather be at a North Beach
Coffeehouse
>circa 1960
than a rock concert circa 1967. Beyond
that, he seemed to
>contribute
nothing more than a recitation of media driven stereotypes.
Here
>is some news
- the beats, at the time, got the same stereotypical
treatment -
>Beats were
supposed to be bongo playing, beret
wearing, unshaven, smelly
>slobs who wrote
really bad poetry. Beat women were
always very thin, slept
>with any man
at the snap of a finger and had a vocabular consisting of
"Daddy-
>O",
"groovy" and "cool".
Allen Ginsberg, for one, just hated this
stereotype.
hey, i've seen
these people on jeffrey's waterrow catalogue
but does any one
know alittle bit about pinballs?
there is one
called "the creature from the black lagoon" and as the story
goes sometimes
you lose your ball and then the display shows exactly this
beat-stereotype-guy
who sayz: "stay cool, daddy-o" because you got the ball
safer...
if you're not
into pinball you better erase this post but if you are, maybe
you can tell the
beat-lagoon connection?
later
moritz
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:45:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: marie's situation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
dear all
merie will be
offline due to purely technical difficulties until mid next
week. all is ok -
her server & password is being stubborn
yrs
derek
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:07:46 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance <morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Artaud: Letter to Buddhists
Comments: To:
Bohemian List <bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Here's the text
of:
Ancestors:
Antonin Artaud, _Tricycle: The Buddhist
Review_ 5, no.2
(Winter 1995), p. 13.
-----------------------------
Antonin Artaud
Letters to the
Schools of the Buddha
[On April 15,
1925, the French founder of the Theatre
of the Absurd,
Antonin Artaud (1896-1948) published
his "Letter
to the Schools of the Buddha" in the
third issue of
_La Revolution Surrealiste_. In the same
issue were
addresses to the Dalai Lama and the Pope
and a
"Letter to the Directors of the Insane Asylums."
The issue was
subtitled "1925: End of the Christian
Era."
Read in the context of the artistic
movement
from which it
came, Artaud's "Letter" is less an
espousal of
Buddhist ideas than an expression of
dissatisfaction
with the materialism of modern
society. That
dissatisfaction, in turn, led many
artists and
intellectuals to embrace Buddhism in
the twenties and
thirties, when gradually the actual
teachings of
Buddhism came more to the fore.]
{begin Artaud's
text, translated from the French
by Stephen
Batchelor, 1993}
You who are disincarnate, who know at what
point in its
carnal trajectory, its insensitive
coming and going,
that the soul finds the absolute
verb, the new
speech, the interior ground; you
who know how one
returns to oneself in thought
and how the
spirit can save itself from itself;
you who are
interior to yourselves; you for whom
the spirit is no
longer on the carnal plane, here
there are hands
for whom taking is not everything,
brains that see
further than a forest of roofs,
the glare of
facades, cog-wheel people and the
workings of fire
and marble. Advancing is this
people of iron;
advancing are words written with
the speed of
light; advancing towards each other
with the force of
bullets are the sexes: what
will change in
the avenues of the soul? in the
spasms of the
heart? in the despair of the spirit?
So hurl into the water all the blank white
men
who arrive with
their little heads and well-behaved
minds. It is
necessary that these dogs hear us;
we are not
speaking of ancient human ills. Our
spirit suffers
from needs other than those inherent
in life. We are
suffering from corruption, from the
corruption of
reason.
Logical Europe endlessly smashes the
spirit
between the
hammers of two terms. She wrenches it
open and shuts it
down. This strangulation has gone
far enough; for
too long have we been suffering
beneath the
harness. The Spirit is larger than
the spirit, the
metamorphoses of life are manifold.
Like you, we
abhor progress: come and tear down
our houses!
While our scribes still continue to write,
our journalists
to natter on, our critics to drone
away, our
politicians to hold forth and our
judicial
assassins to hatch their crimes in peace,
we know what life
really is. Our writers, thinkers,
doctors and
scribblers know exactly how to make
a mess of life.
While all these scribes drool upon
us, whether from
habit or compulsion, spiritual
emasculation or a
failure to apprehend nuance, in
this dull sludge,
on these turning grounds where
the highly
esteemed spirit of man is endlessly
shifting around,
we have harnessed thought the
best. Come Save
us from these worms. Invent new
houses for us.
{end of Artaud
text}
-----------------------------------------------
% % % % % % % % %
% % %
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
"Where even
Richard Nixon has got soul.
Even Richard Nixon has got it --
soul."
--Neil Young
["Campaigner"]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:46:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Why we *should* all read Diane DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
BRASS FURNACE GOING
OUT: Song, after an Abortion
by Diane DiPrima
I
to say I failed,
that is walked out
and into the
arctic
How shd I know where I
was ?
A man chants in
the courtyard
the window is open
someone else drops
a pecan pie
into the yard
two dogs down
there play trumpet
there is something
disturbed
about the melody.
and what of the
three year old girl who poisoned her mother ?
that happens, it
isn't just us, as you can see --
what you took
with you when you left
remains to be
seen.
II
I want you in a
bottle to send to your father
with a long
bitter note.I want him to know
I'll not forgive
you, or him for not being born
for drying up,
quitting
at the first harsh treatment
as if the whole
thing were a rent party
& somebody
stepped in your feet
III
send me your
address a picture, I want to
keep in touch, I
want to know how you
are, to send you
cookies.
do you have
enough sweaters, is the winter bad,
do you know what
I've done, what I'm doing
do you care
write in detail
of your day, what time you get up,
what you are
studying,when you expect
to finish &
what you will do.
is it chilly?
IV
your face
dissolving in water, like wet clay
washed away, like
a rotten water lily
rats on the
riverbank barking at the sight
do they swim ?
the trees here
walk right down to the edge
conversing
your body sank, a
good way back
I hear the otters
will bring it to the surface
and the wailing
mosquitoes even stop to examine
the last melting
details of eyelid & cheeckbone
the stagnant
blood
who taught you
not to tangle your hair in the seaweed
to disappear with
finesse
the lion pads
along the difficult path
in the heart of
the jungle
and comes to the
riverbank
he paws your face
I wish he would
drink it up
in that strong
gut it would come
to life.
but he waits till he floats
a distance
drinks clean water
dances a little
starts the long walk
again
the silent giraffe lets loose
a mourning cry
fish surface
your mouth and the end of your nose
disappear.
the water was
cold the day you slipped into the river
wind ruffled the
surface, I carried you on my back
a good distance,
then you slipped in
red ants started
up my leg & changed their minds
I fed my eyeballs
to a carnivorous snake
& chained
myself to a tree to await your end.
your face no
sooner dissolved than I thought I saw
a kneecap
sticking up where the current is strongest
a turtle
older than stars
walked on your
bones
V
who forged this
night, what steel
clamps down?
like gray pajamas
on an invalid
if I knew the
name of flowers, the habits
of quadrupeds,
the 13 points of the compass ......
an aged mapmaker
who lived on this street
just succumbed to
rheumatism
I have cut the
shroud to measure
bought the stone
a plot in the
cemetery set aside
to bury your shadow
take your head
& go!
& may the
woman that you find know better
than talk to me
about it
VI
your goddamned
belly rotten, a home for flies.
blown out &
stinking, the maggots curling your hair
your useless
neverused cock, the pitiful skull
the pitiful shell
of a skull, dumped in the toilet
the violet,
translucent folds
of beginning life
VII
what is that I
cannot bear to say ?
that if you had
turned out mad, a murderer
a junkie pimp
hanged & burning in lime
alone & filled
w/the rotting dark
if you'd been
frail and a little given to weirdness
or starved or
been shot, or tortured in hunger camps
if wd have been
frolic & triumph compared to this --
I cant even cry
for you,I cant hang on
that long
VIII
forgive, forgive
that the cosmic
waters do not turn from me
that I should not
die of thirst
IX
oranges &
jade at the shrine
my footprints
wet on the stone
the bells in that
clear air
wind from the sea
your shadow
flat on the flat
rocks
the priestess
(sybil)
spelling your
name
crying out,
behind copper doors
giving birth
atone
, silence, the air
moving outside
the door to the
temple blowing on its hinges
thet was the
spirit she said
it passed above
you
the branch I
carry home is mistletoe
& walk
backwards, with my eyes on the sea
X
here in my room I
sit at drawing table
as I have sat all
day, or walked
from drawing
table to bed,
or stopped at
window
considering the
things to be done
weighing them in the hand and putting them down
hung up as the
young Rilke.
here in my room
all day on my couch a stranger
who does not
speak
who does not take
his eyes
off me as I walk
& walk from table to bed.
and I cannot stop
thinking I would be three months pregnant
we would be well
out of here & in the sun
even the
telephone would be polite
we would laugh a
lot, in the morning.
XI
your ivory teeth
in the half light
your arms
flailing
about.that is you
age 9 months
sitting up & trying to
stand
cutting teeth.
your diaper trailing, a
formality
elegant as a
loincloth, the sweet stench
of babyshit in
the house: the oil
rubbed into your
hair.
blue off the moon
your ghostshape
mistaken as brken tooth
your flesh
rejected
never to grow - your hands
that should have
closed around my finger
what moonlight
will play in your hair ?
I mean to say
dear fish, I hope you swim
in another river.
I hope that
wasn't
rebuttal, but a
transfer, an attempt
that failed, but
to be followed
quickly by another
suck your thumb
somewhere
Dear silly thing,
explode
make someone's
colors.
the senses (five)
a gift
to hear,see ,
touch, choke on & love
this life
the rotten globe
to walk in shoes
what apple doesnt
get
at least this much ?
a caramel candy
sticking in your teeth
you, age three
bugged
bearing down on a sliding pond.
your pulled tooth
in my hand
(age six)
your hair with
clay in it,
your
goddamn grin
XII
sun on the green
plants, your prattle
among the vines.
that this
possibility is closed to us.
my house is
small, my windows look out on grey courtyard
there is no view
of the sea.
will you come
here again ? I will entertain you
as well as I can
- I will make you comfortable
in spite of new
york .
will
you
come here
again
my breasts
prepare
to feed you :
they do what they can
_____________
This is the only
other poem (written by someone I don't know) to ever make me
cry besides
"Howl". Hope you guys like it too.
Can you believe I
had to special order a copy of her selected poems? It's
nuts. And most
places couldn't even *get* me a copy- only "Memoirs of a
Beatnik". Oh
well. It comes in on Thursday (hopefully)
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:47:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/15/98 6:05:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU
writes:
> .I think
this refutes anyone's perception of Diane
> DiPrima as a mere Beat-groupie or hanger-on.
Thanks, Stephanie!
> --Sara
Someone compared
Diane to Pam DesBarres, and I guess by extension was calling
her a
groupie. I don't think of DiPrima as a
groupie. She was
there...writing,
reading in coffee houses, and publishing right along with the
rest of the male
beats. She was not a sexual service
station like DesBarres
and the other
groupies and hangers on in the rock world.
She was one of the
artists.
Suppose, I know something about your sexual
history...if you write something
about it...you
publicize it, as Diane did, I feel a perfect right to comment
on what you have
written...even to the extent of questioning your veracity. I
do not feel I
have a right to say ugly things regarding your physical
appearance,
sexual desireability, or to make
suppositions about the motives
of your lovers,
as at least one list member saw fit to do. DiPrima is a living
human person with
children. She, or her children, may lurk
on this list.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:28:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have never seen
a large audience of attentive faces listening in such awed
silence as when
Diane Deprima read her poetry at the University of
California Santa
Cruz last year. You could hear a pin drop. Listening to her
read her poetry
that spanned an entire generation provided me the most
inspiring moments
of the year 1997. It was not possible to feel anything
less than utmost
respect and appreciation for the privilege of witnessing
this amazing
person in action. She is still immersed in work. Her stature
and the
enlightenment that her work provides will only grow as time goes on.
I have no doubrt
about that.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From:
Zucchini4@AOL.COM <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sunday,
February 15, 1998 5:49 PM
Subject: Why we
*should* all read Diane DiPrima
>BRASS FURNACE
GOING OUT: Song, after an Abortion
> by Diane
DiPrima
>I
>to say I
failed, that is walked out
>and into the
arctic
> How shd I know where I
was ?
>A man chants
in the courtyard
> the window is open
>someone else
drops a pecan pie
> into the yard
>two dogs down
there play trumpet
> there is something
disturbed
>about the
melody.
>
>and what of
the three year old girl who poisoned her mother ?
>that happens,
it isn't just us, as you can see --
>what you took
with you when you left
>remains to be
seen.
>II
>I want you in
a bottle to send to your father
>with a long
bitter note.I want him to know
>I'll not forgive
you, or him for not being born
>for drying
up, quitting
> at the first harsh
treatment
>as if the
whole thing were a rent party
>&
somebody stepped in your feet
>III
>send me your
address a picture, I want to
>keep in touch,
I want to know how you
>are, to send
you cookies.
>
>do you have
enough sweaters, is the winter bad,
>do you know
what I've done, what I'm doing
>do you care
>write in
detail of your day, what time you get up,
>what you are
studying,when you expect
>to finish
& what you will do.
>is it chilly?
>IV
>your face
dissolving in water, like wet clay
>washed away,
like a rotten water lily
>rats on the
riverbank barking at the sight
>do they swim
?
>the trees
here walk right down to the edge
>conversing
>your body
sank, a good way back
>I hear the
otters will bring it to the surface
>
>and the
wailing mosquitoes even stop to examine
>the last
melting details of eyelid & cheeckbone
>the stagnant
blood
>who taught
you not to tangle your hair in the seaweed
>to disappear
with finesse
>
>the lion pads
> along the difficult
path
>in the heart
of the jungle
>and comes to
the riverbank
>he paws your
face
>I wish he
would drink it up
>in that
strong gut it would come
>to life.
> but he waits till he floats
>a distance
> drinks clean water
>dances a
little
> starts the long walk
>again
>
> the silent giraffe lets loose
>a mourning
cry
> fish surface
> your mouth and the end of your nose
>disappear.
>
>the water was
cold the day you slipped into the river
>wind ruffled
the surface, I carried you on my back
>a good
distance, then you slipped in
>red ants
started up my leg & changed their minds
>I fed my
eyeballs to a carnivorous snake
>& chained
myself to a tree to await your end.
>your face no
sooner dissolved than I thought I saw
>a kneecap
sticking up where the current is strongest
>a turtle
> older than stars
>walked on
your bones
>V
>who forged
this night, what steel
>clamps down?
>like gray
pajamas on an invalid
>if I knew the
name of flowers, the habits
>of
quadrupeds, the 13 points of the compass ......
>an aged
mapmaker who lived on this street
>just
succumbed to rheumatism
>
>I have cut
the shroud to measure
> bought the stone
>a plot in the
cemetery set aside
> to bury your shadow
>take your
head & go!
>& may the
woman that you find know better
>than talk to
me about it
>VI
>your
goddamned belly rotten, a home for flies.
>blown out
& stinking, the maggots curling your
hair
>your useless
neverused cock, the pitiful skull
>the pitiful
shell of a skull, dumped in the toilet
>the violet,
translucent folds
> of beginning
life
>VII
>what is that
I cannot bear to say ?
>that if you
had turned out mad, a murderer
>a junkie pimp
hanged & burning in lime
> alone & filled
w/the rotting dark
>if you'd been
frail and a little given to weirdness
>or starved or
been shot, or tortured in hunger camps
>if wd have
been frolic & triumph compared to this --
>
>I cant even
cry for you,I cant hang on
>that long
>VIII
>forgive,
forgive
>that the
cosmic waters do not turn from me
>that I should
not die of thirst
>IX
>oranges &
jade at the shrine
>my footprints
>wet on the
stone
>the bells in
that clear air
>wind from the
sea
>your shadow
>flat on the
flat rocks
>the priestess
(sybil)
>spelling your
name
>crying out,
behind copper doors
>giving birth
>atone
> , silence, the air
>moving
outside
>the door to
the temple blowing on its hinges
>thet was the
spirit she said
>it passed
above you
>
>the branch I
carry home is mistletoe
>& walk
backwards, with my eyes on the sea
>X
>here in my
room I sit at drawing table
>as I have sat
all day, or walked
>from drawing
table to bed,
>or stopped at
window
>considering
the things to be done
>weighing them in the hand and putting them down
>hung up as
the young Rilke.
>here in my
room all day on my couch a stranger
>who does not
speak
>who does not
take his eyes
>off me as I
walk & walk from table to bed.
>
>and I cannot
stop thinking I would be three months pregnant
>we would be
well out of here & in the sun
>even the
telephone would be polite
>we would
laugh a lot, in the morning.
>XI
>your ivory
teeth in the half light
>your arms
>flailing
about.that is you
>age 9 months
> sitting up & trying to
stand
>cutting
teeth.
> your diaper trailing, a
formality
>elegant as a
loincloth, the sweet stench
>of babyshit
in the house: the oil
>rubbed into
your hair.
>blue off the
moon your ghostshape
> mistaken as brken tooth
>your flesh
rejected
> never to grow - your hands
>that should
have closed around my finger
>
>what
moonlight
> will play in your hair ?
>I mean to say
> dear fish, I hope you swim
>
>in another
river.
>I hope that
wasn't
>rebuttal, but
a transfer, an attempt
>that failed,
but to be followed
> quickly by another
>suck your
thumb somewhere
>Dear silly
thing, explode
>make
someone's colors.
>
>the senses
(five)
> a gift
>to hear,see ,
touch, choke on & love
>this life
>the rotten
globe
>to walk in
shoes
>what apple
doesnt get
> at least this much ?
>
>a caramel
candy sticking in your teeth
>you, age
three
>bugged
> bearing down on a sliding pond.
>your pulled
tooth in my hand
> (age six)
>your hair
with clay in it,
> your
goddamn grin
>XII
>sun on the
green plants, your prattle
>among the
vines.
>that this
possibility is closed to us.
>my house is
small, my windows look out on grey courtyard
>there is no
view of the sea.
>will you come
here again ? I will entertain you
>as well as I
can - I will make you comfortable
>in spite of
new york .
>
>will
>you
>come here
>again
>
>my breasts
prepare
>to feed you :
they do what they can
>_____________
>This is the
only other poem (written by someone I don't know) to ever make
me
>cry besides
"Howl". Hope you guys like it too.
>
>Can you
believe I had to special order a copy of her selected poems? It's
>nuts. And
most places couldn't even *get* me a copy- only "Memoirs of a
>Beatnik".
Oh well. It comes in on Thursday (hopefully)
>
>--Stephanie
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:08:22 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It was also the
period in which rock 'n' roll was born.
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, James Stauffer wrote:
> >
>>...and the sterile world of 1950s U.S...
> > >
> >
>This also, what does this mean? I
have heard such a term or description so
> >
>often that I think it has become some sort of a priori conclusion or dogma.
> >
> > It has
to do with things like capitalism, manifest destiny, might makes
right,
> > John
Wayne ugly Americanism. By sterile, I
mean the stress on conformity,
> the
> > celebration of "sameness" over
individuality and creativity -- man in the
> grey
> > flannel suit syndrome. Yes, all of this has become somewhat of a
cliche.
> But
> > there was a lot of truth to it.
>
> I think that both Tim and Bill have
interesting arguments. As one who
> remembers
> the fifties
as a young adolescent--sure, what Bill says is true, but this was
> also
> an era that
produced an enormous amount of good stuff in art, literature, and
> film. Maybe it's because I was that young--got my
drivers liscense in
1958--but
> it
> was a fun
country too--more rural, a hell of a lot less of it paved and
> interstated,
it was sexy too, it was James Dean and Chet Baker and Marilyn
> Monroe
> and Natalie
Wood. A
lot more conformity, for sure, but it sure was easy to
be
> a
> rebel. There was the bomb, to be sure, hanging over
us all, but we were
unaware
> of
> the lurking
ecological disaster, of Aids, or a whole lot of things. I just
> don't
> find the
50's sterile, certainly there was a pause after the depression and
the
> war--but if
such a thing were possible I don't know if I wouldn't gladly time
> trip
> back to that
era for awhile. The energy and vitality
were amazing--look at
> those
> pictures of
Jack and Neal--they radiate a wonderful sort of juice. I don't
> know,
> but a couple
of days in a 56 Chevy back in the California in the 50's--doesn't
> sound too
bad to me.
>
> JS
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:06:23 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Edward Arnold
<EArnold@BOENATWEST.CO.ZA>
Subject: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META
content='"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Does
anyone have any thoughts, ideas or sources on a possible
relationship<BR>between
Allen Ginsberg's poetry and the development of what one
could<BR>call
postmodernist poetry? And how would one define
postmodernist<BR>poetry?
This is my main problem at this point in
time. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mail
me at: </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="mailto:EArnold@boenatwest.co.za">EArnold@boenatwest.co.za</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2><FONT
size=3>Thanks!</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000
size=2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:26:52 +0000
Reply-To: kevintaylor@cheerful.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<kjohn@pop.intergate.bc.ca>
From: Kevin Taylor
<kjohn@INTERGATE.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On 16 Feb 98 at
9:06, Edward Arnold wrote:
>
> Does anyone
have any thoughts, ideas or sources on a possible
> relationship
between Allen Ginsberg's poetry and the development of
> what one
could call postmodernist poetry? And how would one define
>
postmodernist poetry? This is my main problem at this point in time.
It was a drive-by
versing
A poem invasion
An act of
irresponsible aesthetics
Unmitigated form
and passion
Premeditated
meter
Alliteration
Aggravated by
both rhythm
And rhyme
It was a drive-by
vision
A prose inversion
A wilding of fact and fantasy
By all accounts
A Declaration of
Words
___________________________
Kevin Taylor -
the drive-by poet
Vancouver BC
http://www.intergate.bc.ca/business/kjohn/poetry.htm
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:07:12 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
D. Patrick
Hornberger wrote on 2/16/98
>You guessed
wrong--I want you to read the beats just like I read the
>Lost
Generation--I'm only pointing out form my persepective it seems
>many of you
students put an inaccurate twist on the Beat--such as what
>does the
Grateful Dead have to do with it? Or country music--
[. . .]
"i like
trains"
by Fred
Eaglesmith
sixteen miles
from arkadelphia
right near the
texas border
traffic was
stopped at a railway crossing
i took it to the
border
i stoked the
kettle i put it to the metal
i shook the
gravel loose
i missed the
train but i was happy with
a glimpse of a
caboose
cause i like trains
i like fast
trains
i like trains
that call out through the rain
i like trains
i like sad trains
i like trains
that whisper your name
i was born on a
greyhound bus
my momma was a
diesel engine
they tried to put
me behind the wheel
but i wouldn't
let them
you should have
seen the look in their eyes
and how it turned
to tears
when i finally
told them i wanna be an engineer
now you think
that i've got someone new
but darlin', that
ain't true
i could never
love another woman besides you
it's not some
dewy-eyed
darlin', darlin'
that's gonna drive you insane
but anymore i'd
be listening for
the sound of a
big ol' train
Fred Eaglesmith,
_drive-in movie_ , Vertical
Records compact
disk VER 4218-2, 1996.
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
"Come tell
me seashell this--
Shall we weep at dawn tomorrow--
Shall we laugh at funny spoons,
Or will spoons revenge themselves upon us,
By becoming salad forks."
-- H.M. (Her/His? Majesty) Koutoukas
from the play
ONLY A COUNTESS MAY DANCE WHEN SHE'S CRAZY
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:07:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In a message
dated 2/15/98 6:05:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU
writes:
>
>> .I think
this refutes anyone's perception of Diane
>> DiPrima as a mere Beat-groupie or hanger-on.
Thanks, Stephanie!
>> --Sara
>Someone
compared Diane to Pam DesBarres, and I guess by extension was calling
>her a
groupie. I don't think of DiPrima as a
groupie. She was
>there...writing,
reading in coffee houses, and publishing right along with the
>rest of the
male beats. She was not a sexual service
station like DesBarres
>and the other
groupies and hangers on in the rock world.
She was one of the
>artists.
>
> Suppose, I
know something about your sexual history...if you write something
>about it...you
publicize it, as Diane did, I feel a perfect right to comment
>on what you
have written...even to the extent of questioning your veracity. I
>do not feel I
have a right to say ugly things regarding your physical
>appearance,
sexual desireability, or to make
suppositions about the motives
>of your
lovers, as at least one list member saw fit to do. DiPrima is a living
>human person
with children. She, or her children, may
lurk on this list.
>Dennis
Well said
Stephanie, Dennis and Sara.
I'm perplexed
that so few people have responded to the slanderous comments
about Diane
DiPrima and the attempt to trivialize
her as a writer.
I'm sitting here
paging through DiPrima's "Revolutionary Letters Etc" from
City Lights. The
Pocket Poets Series: Number 27.Looking at the haunting,
stunning, picture
of DiPrima on the back of
"Revolutionary Letters Etc"
I'm reminded of a
reading a years ago. It was
unforgettable.
Opinions about a
person's writing ability always have a place here.
However, by
speaking of her as ____"he"____ did, using those labels so
arrogantly, so
viciously, and with no sense of her dedication and skill,
___"he"___
has provided a portrait of himself that is definitive--a picture
of his world, his
words, his work. Not a pretty picture.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:42:07 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Christopher Moore
wrote:
>
> >>
Man... what crap. I really have to say that I appreciate this
> idolatry
> >> of
a big part of MY generation..but really guys you are way out on
> this
> >>
one--hardly anyone under 50 years of age could even come close to
> >>
understanding "BEAT" without intensive study...its not berets, bongos
> >> and
hitchhiking... what it was was a state of mind that said
> >>
"art"-(writing, painting & music) would or maybe could, change
the
> >>
world... I dont now what it is you young types find so attractive
> about
> >> the
Beat Generation ,but I gotta feeling it aint' what you thought it
> >>
was. Read Ginsberg-he was the best at reflecting his generation. Its
> >>
kinda weird that I don't understand the current generation--so how
> come
> >> you
all think you knew a previous one you didnt live in? DIG IT?
> >
> >this is
quite absurd from the perspective of a "younger person"
> >I read
on the road when I was 16 and since have been involved in
> reading
> >many
other forms of Beat literature
> >I guess
what this man is saying is that I should only read literature
> >from my
generation
> >Oh wait,
I don't like any of it
> >So I
should not read at all
> >Tell me
what I should do
> >I like
the Beat Generation, actually I love it
> >I might
not know it the way you do, but from what you are saying, you
> >never
read any Plato, Aristotle, Hume, Dostoyevsky, or anything out of
> >your
generation because you couldn't relate to it
> >Take
into consideration the way others may be able to "relate" to the
> >beats in
second hand ways
> >
>
>beatifically yours
> >eric
> >
> Hm. Fine point, Eric. There are very few things we have in our
> Reality, but
one of them is history. It is the way of
our progress. If
> we all live
*solely* in today, interacted *only* with today, I think we
> would
seriously restrict our amount of progress and understanding of the
> world. In fact, we would totally eliminate it. We must have the
> literature
from our past (along with other written, spoken,
>
architecture, oral, created artifacts), and we must read it. We do not
> need to
understand it purely in the mindset of the age in which it was
> written, but
we may understand in our today's perspective.
That is what
> literature
is, or any form of art. It is its
timelessness, its eternal
> wisdom. The Beats said quite a few things, not just
about the 50's, but
> life
itself. I agree that to be a Beat one
need not wear particular
> clothes or
be specific place... it is not even necessary to *try* to be
> a Beat. But to read, and attempt to understand their literature
and
> song, etc.,
is quite an honorable goal. We study
what they had to say,
> and we try
to be like they were, because they had true insight into
> life. Anyone can read that today, and what they do
on the side is
> purely
auxillary and beside the point.
> We read
Aristotle not because we want to be like him, or becuase we
> think we
need to become like the Greeks. He said
many incorrect things,
> applied
Science in (currently) kooky ways; that is beside the point. We
> read him
because of his interest in the world arround him, and his
>
understanding of human nature, etc.
> Ack. All this materialism and literalism. Don't say "Oh well, you
> fellows
didn't live back then, so give it a break." By saying that, you
> do not live
today.
>
> Christopher
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
You guessed
wrong--I want you to read the beats just like I read the
Lost
Generation--I'm only pointing out form my persepective it seems
many of you
students put an inaccurate twist on the Beat--such as what
does the Grateful
Dead have to do with it? Or country music--and now Abe
Lincoln?
What?//???? Stick to the point--the point was art--partcularly
literature. Bye.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:56:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Given a recent
thread, some of us may disagree on the definition of postmodern.
Personally, I think AG was more of a
modernist than a post-modernist.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:26:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jesus,
unbelievable that anyone would be so judgmental and egotistical as to
judge anyone's
understanding without knowing anything about them.
understanding is
an individual thing. mindset has
everything to do with how
one sees and
relates, regardless of when one has entered this present
incarnation. to presume that no one can understand
something unless he/she
has lived it (and
during a certain given period of time), is preposterous.
books and films
wouldn't exist. an writer, actor or
director would be
unable to get
inside of anything that wasn't part of his/her direct
experience.
even among those
who lived a given lifestyle during a given era one will
find differences
of understanding and opinion as to just what that lifestyle
was about. they will even disagree as to what years
constitute the era to
begin with.
while i'm no
expert on Beat lit, it has struck me very strongly that the
"Beats"
themselves didn't completely agree on what "Beat" was/is. yet i
think there was a
thread - the mindset - that strung them together. as far
as i can tell,
mindset, while it may be influenced by the times, knows no
boundaries....
ciao, sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From: D. Patrick
Hornberger <"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Monday,
February 16, 1998 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Is
you is (Beat) or is you aint
>Christopher
Moore wrote:
>>
>> >>
Man... what crap. I really have to say that I appreciate this
>> idolatry
>> >>
of a big part of MY generation..but really guys you are way out on
>> this
>> >>
one--hardly anyone under 50 years of age could even come close to
>> >>
understanding "BEAT" without intensive study...its not berets, bongos
>> >>
and hitchhiking... what it was was a state of mind that said
>> >>
"art"-(writing, painting & music) would or maybe could, change
the
>> >>
world... I dont now what it is you young types find so attractive
>> about
>> >>
the Beat Generation ,but I gotta feeling it aint' what you thought it
>> >>
was. Read Ginsberg-he was the best at reflecting his generation. Its
>> >>
kinda weird that I don't understand the current generation--so how
>> come
>> >>
you all think you knew a previous one you didnt live in? DIG IT?
>> >
>> >this
is quite absurd from the perspective of a "younger person"
>> >I
read on the road when I was 16 and since have been involved in
>> reading
>> >many
other forms of Beat literature
>> >I
guess what this man is saying is that I should only read literature
>> >from
my generation
>> >Oh
wait, I don't like any of it
>> >So I
should not read at all
>> >Tell
me what I should do
>> >I
like the Beat Generation, actually I love it
>> >I
might not know it the way you do, but from what you are saying, you
>>
>never read any Plato, Aristotle, Hume, Dostoyevsky, or anything out of
>> >your
generation because you couldn't relate to it
>> >Take
into consideration the way others may be able to "relate" to the
>>
>beats in second hand ways
>> >
>>
>beatifically yours
>> >eric
>> >
>> Hm. Fine point, Eric. There are very few things we have in our
>> Reality,
but one of them is history. It is the
way of our progress. If
>> we all
live *solely* in today, interacted *only* with today, I think we
>> would
seriously restrict our amount of progress and understanding of the
>>
world. In fact, we would totally
eliminate it. We must have the
>>
literature from our past (along with other written, spoken,
>>
architecture, oral, created artifacts), and we must read it. We do not
>> need to
understand it purely in the mindset of the age in which it was
>> written,
but we may understand in our today's perspective. That is what
>>
literature is, or any form of art. It is
its timelessness, its eternal
>>
wisdom. The Beats said quite a few
things, not just about the 50's, but
>> life
itself. I agree that to be a Beat one
need not wear particular
>> clothes
or be specific place... it is not even necessary to *try* to be
>> a
Beat. But to read, and attempt to
understand their literature and
>> song,
etc., is quite an honorable goal. We
study what they had to say,
>> and we
try to be like they were, because they had true insight into
>>
life. Anyone can read that today, and
what they do on the side is
>> purely
auxillary and beside the point.
>> We read
Aristotle not because we want to be like him, or becuase we
>> think we
need to become like the Greeks. He said
many incorrect things,
>> applied
Science in (currently) kooky ways; that is beside the point. We
>> read him
because of his interest in the world arround him, and his
>>
understanding of human nature, etc.
>>
Ack. All this materialism and
literalism. Don't say "Oh well, you
>> fellows
didn't live back then, so give it a break." By saying that, you
>> do not
live today.
>>
>> Christopher
>>
>>
______________________________________________________
>> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>You guessed
wrong--I want you to read the beats just like I read the
>Lost
Generation--I'm only pointing out form my persepective it seems
>many of you
students put an inaccurate twist on the Beat--such as what
>does the
Grateful Dead have to do with it? Or country music--and now Abe
>Lincoln?
What?//???? Stick to the point--the point was art--partcularly
>literature.
Bye.
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:27:31 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ice Station Zebra
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Records, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY 40473
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
D. Patrick
Hornberger wrote:
> hardly
anyone under 50 years of age could even come close to
>
understanding "BEAT" without intensive study
=== Oh please.
The same could be said for any period of history!
"Intensive
study"???
>...its not
berets, bongos and hitchhiking
=== why not? I
saw plenty of beret-wearing, bongo-beatin' hitchhiking
beatniks in the
'60's.....oh, but I guess those just weren't REAL beats,
eh? Well, *they* thought they were beats, and *I*
thought they were
beats, so perhaps
we are all the victim of mass hallucination.
> I dont now
what it is you young types find so attractive
> about the
Beat Generation ,but I gotta feeling it aint' what
> you thought
it was.
=== If you don't
understand why someone (regardless of age) would find
the Beat
Generation attractive, I have to wonder whose viewpoint of it
is really skewed.
Besides, at this late date in history it matters not -
the MYTH of
"Beat" is all that remains and all that matters. The myth
has been wrested
from the clammy grip of those who actually lived
through it, just
like it happens to everything else that comes down the
pike. I endorse
the myth of the laissez-faire art-dabbling bookworm
coffee house
'beatnik' because, watered down though it may seem to some,
it's still
INFINITELY preferable to whatever malaise the aimless youth
of today are
congealing in.......any kid that wants to put on a pair of
wayfarers, a
black beret and sweater, buy the Rhino Beat Generation Box
Set and swallow
it whole and proclaim themselves a beatnik is just fine
by me and welcome
in my coffee house anytime.
> Its kinda
weird that I don't understand the current
>
generation--so how come you all think you knew a previous
> one you
didnt live in?
=== Why don't you
understand the current generation? It's a no-brainer.
The more things
change, the more things stay the same, anyway.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to Ken
Nordine's "Reaching Into In"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:35:46 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ice Station Zebra
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Records, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY 40473
Subject: Re: harlan ellison
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Harlan also wrote
some great pornography in the 50's under pseudonyms.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JSH's Creeps
Outpost
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:17:35 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Ghost of Slim Gaillard
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Records, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY 40473
Subject: Oops, massive oops
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I just realized
that I stoopidly sent a missive intended for Country-L
to Beat-L by
mistake, the "Alison Krauss" post......doh!! Sorry about
that, but it
probably made for a surreal moment.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
frying chicken in
a big iron thing
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:19:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I wasnt comparing
DiPrima to DesBarres. I jsut commented that the
description that
someone posted of DiPrima sounded like DesBarres. Sorry
if I offended
anyone On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Dennis Cardwell wrote:
> In a message
dated 2/15/98 6:05:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>
sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU writes:
>
> > .I
think this refutes anyone's perception of Diane
> > DiPrima as a mere Beat-groupie or hanger-on.
Thanks, Stephanie!
> > --Sara
> Someone
compared Diane to Pam DesBarres, and I guess by extension was calling
> her a
groupie. I don't think of DiPrima as a
groupie. She was
>
there...writing, reading in coffee houses, and publishing right along with the
> rest of the
male beats. She was not a sexual service
station like DesBarres
> and the
other groupies and hangers on in the rock world. She was one of the
> artists.
>
> Suppose, I know something about your sexual
history...if you write something
> about
it...you publicize it, as Diane did, I feel a perfect right to comment
> on what you
have written...even to the extent of questioning your veracity. I
> do not feel
I have a right to say ugly things regarding your physical
> appearance,
sexual desireability, or to make
suppositions about the motives
> of your
lovers, as at least one list member saw fit to do. DiPrima is a living
> human person
with children. She, or her children, may
lurk on this list.
> Dennis
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:22:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What do all these
things mean? Modernist, etc. How do you differetiate
between the
different styles?
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, Bill Gargan wrote:
> Given a
recent thread, some of us may disagree on the definition of
postmodern.
> Personally, I think AG was more of a modernist
than a post-modernist.
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:38:41 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> Given a
recent thread, some of us may disagree on the definition of
postmodern.
> Personally, I think AG was more of a
modernist than a post-modernist.
Can anyone define
the two, modernist/post-modernist, in a short summary
or something,
just so I can get a grasp on them.
thanks
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:50:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JULIANA PABON <julie36@BU.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i read this this
morning. according to Brenda Knight:
"Beat is
underground, raw, unedited, pure, shocking.
Beat can't be
refined,
sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be immediate.
Beat is an
explosion, a vomiting of vision."
from _Women of
the Beat Generation_
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:05:35 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: A Clockwork Mango
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Records, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY 40473
Subject: Punk Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> The problem
with this definition is that it is too inclusive -- it could just
as easily define punk rock.
=== And that's
not necessarily a bad thing. Punk, at one time anyway,
was not
antithetical to Beat. The Clash were very much an heir-apparent
to the Beat
lineage, and Allen Ginsberg even performed and recorded with
them.....WSB
wrote a punk rock song called "Bugger the Queen"....Patti
Smith bridged the
gap between Beat and Punk rather well......Richard
Hell, Exene
Cervenka and Henry Rollins have done some writings in a sort
of post-Beat
molding......
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
fried chicken and
guinness stout
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:36:23 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: A Clockwork Mango
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Records, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY 40473
Subject: Today's Generation (was: hey jhs)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Carly Earnshaw
said:
> okay, so i
agree with a lot of the things that you said in
> your post to
d.patrick. what i don't agree with is
your
> dismal
outlook on today's generation. remember,
a lot of
> people would
have called the beats "aimless youth" before
> they became
famous and established a massive cult following.
> also, be
sure not to exclude the subcultures of today's young
>
generation....beat wasn't exactly mainstream and what was
> mainstream
was fairly undesirable (well, to me anyway)
=== I'm not
saying the youth of today is hopeless - in fact, things seem
much better now
than they were about five years ago - but something I
have noticed in
high school/college kids, in increasing number and
degree of
intensity since the mid-1980's, is a growing lack of
curiosity. The
popularity of the Internet seems to have reversed this
trend for the
time being, but I wonder if it will be permanent or lead
to an even
greater anhedonia.
There are always
standout kids in each generation who think for
themselves and
have an innate curiosity about life, but it seems they
are lesser in
number today, and each are thrown all in increasingly
specialized
directions, forced into ever-shrinking thought boxes - most
forms of remotely
alternative music now have subgenres spinning off of
their subgenres.
You can't just be Punk anymore, you have to choose
between hardcore,
'77, straight edge, poli-punk, crust, stenchcore,
etc. You can't just be Techno anymore, you have to
choose between
Ambient, Rave,
Trip Hop, House, Goth, Hip House, Manchester, Hard
Techno, etc. The more people like me try to blur all
boundaries and
make labels and
distinctions vaguer, they just keep splitting hairs into
infinitesimally
smaller fad-camps with shorter and shorter life spans.
Attention spans
seem to be getting microscopic. The increasing
fragmentation
makes it difficult to organize people into sharing any
common ideas.
Then again,
perhaps I'm just nostalgic for the days when it was just "Us
vs. Them"
and we all knew who They were.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland -
gorged on fried birds - ky.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:44:26 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>>...and the sterile world of 1950s U.S...
> >
> >This
also, what does this mean? I have heard
such a term or description so
> >often
that I think it has become some sort of a priori conclusion or dogma.
>
> It has to do
with things like capitalism, manifest destiny, might makes right,
> John Wayne
ugly Americanism. By sterile, I mean
the stress on conformity,
the
> celebration of "sameness" over
individuality and creativity -- man in the
grey
> flannel suit syndrome. Yes, all of this has become somewhat of a
cliche.
But
> there was a lot of truth to it.
I think that both Tim and Bill have
interesting arguments. As one who
remembers
the fifties as a
young adolescent--sure, what Bill says is true, but this was
also
an era that
produced an enormous amount of good stuff in art, literature, and
film. Maybe it's because I was that young--got my
drivers liscense in 1958--but
it
was a fun country
too--more rural, a hell of a lot less of it paved and
interstated, it
was sexy too, it was James Dean and Chet Baker and Marilyn
Monroe
and Natalie
Wood. A
lot more conformity, for sure, but it sure was easy to be
a
rebel. There was the bomb, to be sure, hanging over
us all, but we were unaware
of
the lurking
ecological disaster, of Aids, or a whole lot of things. I just
don't
find the 50's
sterile, certainly there was a pause after the depression and the
war--but if such
a thing were possible I don't know if I wouldn't gladly time
trip
back to that era
for awhile. The energy and vitality were
amazing--look at
those
pictures of Jack
and Neal--they radiate a wonderful sort of juice. I don't
know,
but a couple of
days in a 56 Chevy back in the California in the 50's--doesn't
sound too bad to
me.
JS
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:59:43 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Man With The Golden Pancreas
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Things have to
get worse before they get better, and things were being
pushed and pulled
in both free and unfree directions in the 1950's. Much
progress was
being made in many areas, but it was in part necessitated
by the quantum
leap in fascism - the KKK were stepping up their presence
and power,
McCarthy and Reagan were sending the nation on a witch hunt
for Communists,
We fought the pointless Korean War in the early 50's,
and began sending
troops to Vietnam in the late 50's. And all the social
mores that were
finally smashed in the 60's but magically had
regenerated like
a lobster claw, and stronger than ever, by 1980.
Further, there
was a definite immersion into materialism after World War
II, and a
generation of kids grew up disillusioned watching mom and pop
turn into drones
who worshipped their status symbols and possessions.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland,
Wanted for Questioning
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:15:55 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Man With The Golden Pancreas
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Punk Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Leo Getz wrote:
>
> I fear I
have to disagree with the Henry Rollins/beat-connection.
=== Well, that's
why I made a point of saying "sort of Post-Beat",
guarding my
words. Rollins' hateful "I hate the world, the world hates
me, I'm gonna eat
some worms" writings aren't exactly "On The
Road"......but
the bluntness and honesty of his stuff is his inheritance
from the Beats.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JSH of the Secret
Police
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:51:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ladeda....
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
harlan ellison
Cc:
Bcc:
HSbork@concentric.net,rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980215154448.68300A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
"H.S.B"
<HSbork@concentric.net> wrote:
>>Well, I
don't think that Harlan can be actually be considered a 'beat,'
>>though
some of his writing is very similar (think of Ginsberg and Corso's
>>run on
word metaphors: i.e. "lonleyache", which Harlan uses quite
>>extensively.) Some of the things Harlan writes about,
though, are very
>>similar--
themes about god, the American dream, love, life, etc. So0me of
>>Bukowski's
and Harlan's stories are pretty similar, though Ellison's are a
>>bit more
fantastic. Ellison is usually thought of
as a 'sf' writer, which
>>is
horseshit-- he prefers the term 'speculative fiction.' I believe that he
>>was
friendly whith some of the beats, and like I said, he ghost-wrote "How
>>To Tlak
Dirty and Influence People," Lenny Bruce's 'auotbiography.' I
>>include
him as a beat writer because I don't like to restrict the definition
>>of 'beat
writers' to just the Big Three....I believe that it's more of a way
>>of
thinking and writing about life, and what makes up life. I don't think
>>it died
out with Kerouac and Cassidy-- people like Harlan (among other
>>writers)
keep it alive.
>>-h-
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:02:28 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
JULIANA PABON
wrote:
>
> i read this
this morning. according to Brenda
Knight:
>
> "Beat
is underground, raw, unedited, pure, shocking.
Beat can't be
> refined,
sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be immediate.
> Beat is an
explosion, a vomiting of vision."
>
> from _Women
of the Beat Generation_
That is pretty
awesome. A short concise description,
that actually does
the Beat
Generation justice in terms of a description.
i like it
It makes
everything people have been talking about seem pointless
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:03:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
mmmhh..interesting.
I think I agree with it but I also feel like BEAT cant
be explicitly
explained. I think that Brenda Knight is decsribing the
characteristics
of BEAT, so shes not really defining. Its a hard thing to
define...
Websters New
World Dictionary, circa 1990 writes :adj 1. tired out, 2.of a
group of young
persons,esp of the 1950's expressing social disillusionment
by unconventional
dress, actions, ect. I dont know about the
unconventional
dress but unconvential actions seems about right...
What do you
think?
On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, JULIANA PABON wrote:
> i read this
this morning. according to Brenda
Knight:
>
> "Beat
is underground, raw, unedited, pure, shocking.
Beat can't be
> refined,
sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be immediate.
> Beat is an
explosion, a vomiting of vision."
>
> from _Women
of the Beat Generation_
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:03:49 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 16
Feb 1998 22:56:31...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message dated Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:56:31 +0100 with subject "(FWD)
harlan
ellison" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (254
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:06:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Baudrillad said
postmoderism is a term about evrything society isn't.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
translated in italian TOM CLARK, JACK KEROUAC A BIOGRAFY
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980215154448.68300A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
----------
> From:
Rinaldo RASA <rasa@gpnet.it>
> Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
> Subject: translated
in italian TOM CLARK, JACK KEROUAC A BIOGRAFY
> Date: lunedì
16 febbraio 1998 20.45
>
Hello friends,
In Italy
it's out
(december 1997) the italian
translation of
Tom Clark's "Jack Kerouac A Biography"
out in u.s.a
published 1984 marlowe&company 632 broadway NY
in Italy:
named "JACK - VITA E LEGGENDA DI KEROUAC"
publisher:
MARLBORO COUNTRY BOOKS EDIMAR S.r.L.
MILANO, ITALY.
the book is
traslated by Claudia Molinari.
it's seem a nice
book.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
------ venice-mestre,italy----
rasa@gpnet.it ---
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:20:48 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 16
Feb 1998 23:13:13...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:13:13 +0100 with subject "translated
in italian TOM
CLARK, JACK KEROUAC A
BIOGRAFY" has been successfully
distributed to
the BEAT-L list (254 recipients).
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Allen
Ginsberg on Burrough.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980215154448.68300A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
On Burroughs'
Work, And Naked Lunch
The method must
be purest meat
and no symbolic
dressing,
actual visions
& actual prisons
as seen then and
now.
Prisons and
visions presented
with rare
descriptions
corresponding
exactly to those
of Alcatraz and
Rose.
A naked lunch is
natural to us,
we eat reality
sandwiches.
But allegories
are so much lettuce.
Don't hide the
madness!
Allen Ginsberg
1954
At 15.45 15/02/98
-0700, you wrote:
>dear all
>merie will be
offline due to purely technical difficulties until mid next
>week. all is
ok - her server & password is being stubborn
>yrs
>derek
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>derek
beaulieu
>c/o house
press
>apt.502 728
3rd ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
>email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
>phone
(403)270-4440
>LOOK FOR :
house press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
>edition
chapbook!
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:41:11 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 16
Feb 1998 23:33:47...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message dated Mon,
16 Feb 1998 23:33:47 +0100 with
subject "Allen
Ginsberg on
Burrough." has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list
(254 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:47:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: www.kerouacquarterly.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dig it...I was
booted from you precious realm but I found a crack in the wall.
Les critiques du
veil art moderne ont ete surtout egares et cocufies par le
"moderne"
meme. Effectivement rien na jamais vieilli plus vite et plus mal
que tout ce qu'a
un moment ils qualifierent de "moderne."
Civil discourse is
here...alive and well. I'm glad all your boring rabble
doesn't clog up
my e-mail. Take care all....have fun and live out your
exciting
lives...Paul of TKQ.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:58:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JULIANA PABON <julie36@BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it all boils down
to definitions, yet again. think about
it...my
definition of
"unconventional" can be completely different than yours..or
even
webster's. but if we take it all to mean
a general expression of
"different",
well, then i do feel that BEAT dictates unconventional
actions. how
unconventional one needs to be in order to take up rank with
the likes that
brenda knight writes about however, remain to be seen.
by defining
ANYTHING we set limits to the very thing we attempt to
explain, but tell
me, what do you feel makes someone unconventional??
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>
mmmhh..interesting. I think I agree with it but I also feel like BEAT cant
> be
explicitly explained. I think that Brenda Knight is decsribing the
>
characteristics of BEAT, so shes not really defining. Its a hard thing to
> define...
> Websters New
World Dictionary, circa 1990 writes :adj 1. tired out, 2.of a
> group of
young persons,esp of the 1950's expressing social disillusionment
> by unconventional
dress, actions, ect. I dont know about the
>
unconventional dress but unconvential actions seems about right...
> What do you
think?
> On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, JULIANA PABON wrote:
>
> > i read
this this morning. according to Brenda
Knight:
> >
> >
"Beat is underground, raw, unedited, pure, shocking. Beat can't be
> >
refined, sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be immediate.
> > Beat is
an explosion, a vomiting of vision."
> >
> > from
_Women of the Beat Generation_
> >
>
> ********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>
world.--Archimedes*********
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:26:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Diane DiPrima and all that jazz....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i have to say,
the recently posted is the only poem i've ever read of diane's,
but i've heard
much of the criticism towards her asserting that she couldn't
write, was just a
groupie, was making an easy buck off her sexual exploits
(pardon the pun),
etc. but i was impressed by the piece
and it makes me
wonder if all
those criticizing her are actually attempting to minimilize her,
as a beat
writer, into the same trivial and
demeaning position that so many
of our beloved
beats felt fitting for women.
--ce
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:39:04 -0800
Reply-To: jmaynard@csubak.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<John_Maynard@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Oops, massive oops
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The Ghost of Slim
Gaillard wrote:
> I just
realized that I stoopidly sent a missive intended for Country-L
> to Beat-L by
mistake, the "Alison Krauss" post......doh!! Sorry about
> that, but it
probably made for a surreal moment.
>
Hey, I'd a lot
rather read about Alison Krauss than "Estate Wars XVII:
The Final
Countdown."
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland - Berea, KY
> frying
chicken in a big iron thing
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:43:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i hate to do
this, but....
perhaps the 50's
were sexy....for white heterosexual
men. Playboy (which
was pretty much
the driving force behind the sexiness of the fifties--marilyn
monroe was the
cenerfold for the first issue) came out with its first issue
(in '56 i
believe) and made sex the "natural
and healthy" ideal for the
white heterosexual
male. unfortunately, it also produced
and reinforced
unrealistic
images for women to conform to in order
to satisfy their male
lovers. it also reinforced the idea that
heterosexulity was the only accepted
norm.
i know this is
getting off on a bit of a tangent, but while you cavort about
praising the
positive aspects of the 50's, understand that it wasn't so
positive for a
lot of people. and for those who
rebelled--hopefully--it
wasn't just a
matter of sexiness and being cool, rather the only alternative
to an oppressive
society.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:48:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Discussing this
topic at any length would be beyond the scope of Beat-l. A goo
d dictionary of
critical theory or literary terms might be the best place to be
gin.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:51:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The problem with
this definition is that it is too inclusive -- it could just a
s easily define
punk rock.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:55:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have to agree
with this person. The notion that someone can't truly
understand a
period or an era just because they never lived it is
preposterous! If
you're going to say that, you might as well say that our
entire education
system is bulls#!t because they teach on the basis of
passed down
knowledge. I'll admit that our education system has its flaws,
but to say that no
one has a clue just because all their knowledge comes
from research...
the jokes on YOU! Go find Gary Snyder and explain to him
that all his
degrees are bulls#!t because he may not have necessarily
lived in the
cultures or times he studied.
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ghandi would've
smacked you in the head!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, Ice Station Zebra wrote:
> D. Patrick
Hornberger wrote:
>
> > hardly
anyone under 50 years of age could even come close to
> >
understanding "BEAT" without intensive study
>
> === Oh
please. The same could be said for any period of history!
>
"Intensive study"???
>
>
>
> >...its
not berets, bongos and hitchhiking
>
> === why not?
I saw plenty of beret-wearing, bongo-beatin' hitchhiking
> beatniks in
the '60's.....oh, but I guess those just weren't REAL beats,
> eh? Well, *they* thought they were beats, and *I*
thought they were
> beats, so
perhaps we are all the victim of mass hallucination.
>
>
>
> > I dont
now what it is you young types find so attractive
> > about
the Beat Generation ,but I gotta feeling it aint' what
> > you
thought it was.
>
> === If you
don't understand why someone (regardless of age) would find
> the Beat
Generation attractive, I have to wonder whose viewpoint of it
> is really
skewed. Besides, at this late date in history it matters not -
> the MYTH of
"Beat" is all that remains and all that matters. The myth
> has been
wrested from the clammy grip of those who actually lived
> through it,
just like it happens to everything else that comes down the
> pike. I
endorse the myth of the laissez-faire art-dabbling bookworm
> coffee house
'beatnik' because, watered down though it may seem to some,
> it's still
INFINITELY preferable to whatever malaise the aimless youth
> of today are
congealing in.......any kid that wants to put on a pair of
> wayfarers, a
black beret and sweater, buy the Rhino Beat Generation Box
> Set and
swallow it whole and proclaim themselves a beatnik is just fine
> by me and
welcome in my coffee house anytime.
>
>
>
> > Its
kinda weird that I don't understand the current
> >
generation--so how come you all think you knew a previous
> > one you
didnt live in?
>
> === Why
don't you understand the current generation? It's a no-brainer.
> The more
things change, the more things stay the same, anyway.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland - Berea, KY
> listening to
Ken Nordine's "Reaching Into In"
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:02:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Mr. Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jo Grant wrote -
I'm perplexed
that so few people have responded to the slanderous coments
about Diane
DiPrima and the attempt to trivialize her as a writer.
Don't be
perplexed - maybe others do not share your world view of things. I
was wrong about
remarking about her physical appearance but not about her
poetry. That is
my opinion. I have the background to criticize her poetry
with my
experience as a student and scholar of literature and writing. Why
do I not draw
upon this supposed knowledge? because I have more fun doing it
like this. I do
not get bent out of shape when people criticize a favorite
writer of mine. I
could care less. Opinion, as vicious and unsettling it
might sound, does
not confer slander. If I had called her a thief, a
murderer etc.then
your allegations would have ground but...as usual they do
not. Things sound
like they do when Nicosia is feeding you things to say for
your web page.
The picture of her promiscuity should not
come as a shock to her children
since she has
depicted that so explicitly thus far.
Jo Grant orates
further like the Socrates he really is:
"However, by
speaking of her as -"he"-did, using those labels so arrogantly,
so viciously, and
with no sense of her dedication and skill -"he"-has
provided a
portarit of himself that is definitive--a picture of his world,
hs words, his
work. Not a pretty picture."
yes I am very
upset that I do not suit your idea of a proper Beat-L participant.
You are so far
off the mark Grant...anyone who knows me knows that this "world"
that you speak of
so pointedly does not make up even a tenth of a tenth
percent of my
total cosmogony. This is your world...mine is filled with
color and light.
My paintbrush is dipped in gold and my mind is lucid and
shiny.Should I
choose to paint it with terror and drama, then it is so.
The truth is that
Bill Gargan gives you the latitude to pontificate about
your petty
worldviews which are neither compelling nor truthful. At least
I...when I write
things that may offend,upset, etc other people (of which I
am truly sorry
for anything like thatto those who read for fun and joy of
Beat Lit) it is
my honesty which dictates my spirit. Unlike you...who is
afraid to make an
intelligent opinion or remark without it being spoonfed
from a
like-minded party. Paul Maher, Jr. (the"he" that is in question here)
of The Kerouac
Quarterly.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:02:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Are you trying to
say that sex isn't natural? The examples you spoke of
from the 50's
just proved to society that sex is a beautiful thing and
many dangers
inherent in sex are there because of outdated taboos. As far
as standards go,
anyone who looks in Playboy and thinks that they're going
to find someone
who looks like that is going to spend alot of time with
their nose and
other body parts stuck in the pages. There's nothing wrong
with fantasizing,
but don't you won't to be able to COMMUNICATE with the
person that you
just shared a beautiful moment with?
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ghandi would've
smacked you in the head!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, <Carly Earnshaw> wrote:
> i hate to do
this, but....
> perhaps the
50's were sexy....for white heterosexual
men. Playboy (which
> was pretty
much the driving force behind the sexiness of the fifties--marilyn
> monroe was
the cenerfold for the first issue) came out with its first issue
> (in '56 i
believe) and made sex the "natural
and healthy" ideal for the
> white
heterosexual male. unfortunately, it
also produced and reinforced
> unrealistic
images for women to conform to in order
to satisfy their male
> lovers. it also reinforced the idea that
heterosexulity was the only accepted
> norm.
>
> i know this
is getting off on a bit of a tangent, but while you cavort about
> praising the
positive aspects of the 50's, understand that it wasn't so
> positive for
a lot of people. and for those who
rebelled--hopefully--it
> wasn't just
a matter of sexiness and being cool, rather the only alternative
> to an
oppressive society.
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:06:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: hey jhs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
okay, so i agree
with a lot of the things that you said in your post to d.
patrick. what i don't agree with is your dismal
outlook on today's
generation. remember, a lot of people would have called
the beats "aimless
youth"
before they became famous and established a massive cult following.
also, be sure not
to exclude the subcultures of today's young
generation....beat
wasn't exactly mainstream and what was mainstream was
fairly
undesirable (well, to me anyway)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:12:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I guess I
associate unconventionality with nonconformity
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, JULIANA PABON wrote:
> it all boils
down to definitions, yet again. think
about it...my
> definition
of "unconventional" can be completely different than yours..or
> even
webster's. but if we take it all to mean
a general expression of
>
"different", well, then i do feel that BEAT dictates unconventional
> actions. how
unconventional one needs to be in order to take up rank with
> the likes
that brenda knight writes about however, remain to be seen.
> by defining
ANYTHING we set limits to the very thing we attempt to
> explain, but
tell me, what do you feel makes someone unconventional??
>
>
> On Mon, 16
Feb 1998, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>
> >
mmmhh..interesting. I think I agree with it but I also feel like BEAT cant
> > be
explicitly explained. I think that Brenda Knight is decsribing the
> >
characteristics of BEAT, so shes not really defining. Its a hard thing to
> >
define...
> >
Websters New World Dictionary, circa 1990 writes :adj 1. tired out, 2.of a
> > group
of young persons,esp of the 1950's expressing social disillusionment
> > by
unconventional dress, actions, ect. I dont know about the
> >
unconventional dress but unconvential actions seems about right...
> > What do
you think?
> > On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, JULIANA PABON wrote:
> >
> > > i
read this this morning. according to
Brenda Knight:
> > >
> > >
"Beat is underground, raw, unedited, pure, shocking. Beat can't be
> > >
refined, sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be immediate.
> > >
Beat is an explosion, a vomiting of vision."
> > >
> > >
from _Women of the Beat Generation_
> > >
> >
> >
********Had we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
> >
world.--Archimedes*********
> >
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:17:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: according to Brenda Knight
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>"Beat is underground, raw,
unedited, pure, shocking. Beat can't be
>refined,
sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be immediate.
>Beat is an
explosion, a vomiting of vision."
Ahhh, Beat
described as life should be. A brilliant
statement.
M. T. Sorensen
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:36:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lord Buckley, Lenny Bruce
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I just heard Lord Buckley's Hip Ghan and
also Lenny Bruce's routine
about marrying a
horse. Does anybody know where I can
here more of these
guys' stuff? Maaan, thats some brilliant surreal
stuff. For some reason that
stuff hits some
strange undercurrents/sensorypickups and gets so goofy its
just not goofy
anymore- its got that deep, illustrious ramblin' thang goin'
on. Anyhoo, anybody got any leads for me?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:42:33 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leo Getz <thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
None
Subject: Re: Punk Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A Clockwork Mango
wrote:
>
> Bill Gargan
wrote:
> >
> > The
problem with this definition is that it is too inclusive -- it could
just
> as easily define punk rock.
>
> === And
that's not necessarily a bad thing. Punk, at one time anyway,
> was not
antithetical to Beat. The Clash were very much an heir-apparent
> to the Beat
lineage, and Allen Ginsberg even performed and recorded with
> them.....WSB
wrote a punk rock song called "Bugger the Queen"....Patti
> Smith
bridged the gap between Beat and Punk rather well......Richard
> Hell, Exene
Cervenka and Henry Rollins have done some writings in a sort
> of post-Beat
molding......
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland - Berea, KY
> fried
chicken and guinness stout
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mr Holland,
I fear I have to
disagree with the Henry Rollins/beat-connection.
If I were to
smoke a cigarette, let alone a blunt anywhere NEAR
Henry Rollins,
he'd kick the sh*t out of me probably, albeit
verbally. Henry Rollins gives more about staying in
shape and
publishing books
and playing in movies and staying healthy and
writing music and
publishing music and eating yogurt and being
a health-freak...
not the type of guy I think Jack Kerouac or
Neal Cassady
would really be able to have a good time with.
And it there's
one thing I think those two wanted, is just,
'to have a good
time'. Fact that they lived their lives
to
the max, Kerouac
even writing -to me- brilliant literature,
using drugs (i
relate to drugs, i LIKE drugs), doing it more
than most of us,
even having -more or less- 'serious' relation-
ships (something
I heard Rollins say in an interview once he
hadn't had, quote
'a girlfriend in years'... that says enough
to me) and still
accomplish what JK accomplished in his way
too short life,
tho he lived at twice the speed some of us do...
Anyway, I do very
much appreciate Rollins very much as
an artist: his
lyrics/the anger/real feelings/the pain/and he's
actually a really
FUNNY guy too! No kidding!
_I wanna
disconnect myself_
_Pull my brains
damn out and unplug myself_
_I want nothing
right now_
_If you could see
the you that I see when I see you see me,
you'd see yourself so differently, believe me_
--Sincerely,
Thomas Van Moortel (alien)
--listening to
Tricky's Brand New You're Retro --baked as a
cookie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:44:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JULIANA PABON <julie36@BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
and yet again my
friend, what is nonconformity??
if what i stand
for is completely out of your realm, if what i believe in
does not make it
to your belief of what is "right", if how i live my life
is reminiscent of
the social taboo...then are you a noncomformist? does a
mere
disqualification of others make us unconventional?
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
> I guess I
associate unconventionality with nonconformity
> On Mon, 16
Feb 1998, JULIANA PABON wrote:
>
> > it all
boils down to definitions, yet again.
think about it...my
> >
definition of "unconventional" can be completely different than
yours..or
> > even
webster's. but if we take it all to mean
a general expression of
> >
"different", well, then i do feel that BEAT dictates unconventional
> >
actions. how unconventional one needs to be in order to take up rank with
> > the
likes that brenda knight writes about however, remain to be seen.
> > by
defining ANYTHING we set limits to the very thing we attempt to
> >
explain, but tell me, what do you feel makes someone unconventional??
> >
> >
> > On Mon,
16 Feb 1998, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
> >
> > >
mmmhh..interesting. I think I agree with it but I also feel like BEAT cant
> > > be
explicitly explained. I think that Brenda Knight is decsribing the
> > >
characteristics of BEAT, so shes not really defining. Its a hard thing to
> > >
define...
> > >
Websters New World Dictionary, circa 1990 writes :adj 1. tired out, 2.of a
> > >
group of young persons,esp of the 1950's expressing social disillusionment
> > > by
unconventional dress, actions, ect. I dont know about the
> > >
unconventional dress but unconvential actions seems about right...
> > > What
do you think?
> >
> On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, JULIANA PABON
wrote:
> > >
> > >
> i read this this morning. according
to Brenda Knight:
> > >
>
> > >
> "Beat is underground, raw, unedited, pure, shocking. Beat can't be
> > >
> refined, sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be immediate.
> > >
> Beat is an explosion, a vomiting of vision."
> > >
>
> > >
> from _Women of the Beat Generation_
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
********Had we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
> > >
world.--Archimedes*********
> > >
> >
>
> ********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>
world.--Archimedes*********
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:48:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Who is "Beat"?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Okay--I'm not
sure that I've got this right--I am new to the Beat-L chat
thing--but I'm
thinking now about something I read--was it by Pat Hornberger
or Christopher
Moore--?
Anyway--the whole
idea of who is capable of understanding what it means to
be
"Beat" -- it's well within anyone's understanding provided they take
the
trouble to learn
a little about the cultural climate of the 1950's without
lambasting or
idealizing it. Either way, it's a bad thing. I was born in
1952--and though
I was raised in an environment which provided me with
certain
intellectual opportunities, it could also be seen as somewhat
stultifying. I
was encouraged to think for myself--but not to take it so far
as to say or do
anything "subversive." The syndrome of "shutdown" which
Ginsberg claimed
was strangling the academy (Columbia in particular) was
everywhere--mass
conformity, the rise of a consumer culture that homogenized
every real
cultural innovation so the general public would find it
palatable--this
was the way of things then and the only thing that has
changed in that
area is that more people are conscious of it now as an
ongoing process.
To say that you have to be over fifty to understand what it
means to be
"Beat" is about as condescending as the Generation X types who
think the Beats
are tired old anachronisms who refuse to fade away.
If you're willing
to take the trouble to learn a little about the
fifties--and if
you keep an open mind--the whole concept of being "Beat" is
easy to understand.
I teach English on the high school level and one of my
favorite elective
courses is devoted to the writings of the Beats. My
students--none of
whom were born before 1980--had no problem understanding
the concept--of
course, they were allowed to see videos, press clippings,
photos and to
hear recordings from that period. So what then is Hornberger's
or Moore's
problem?
Sounds like a bad
case of cultural chauvinism to me.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:50:05 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JSH <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Today's Generation (was: hey jhs)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
TazminX@AOL.COM
wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 98-02-16 19:52:27 EST, you write:
>
> <<
There are always standout kids in each generation who think for
> themselves and have an innate curiosity about
life, but it seems they
> are lesser in number today, >>
>
> lesser
number today? there were really only 5 - 10 key members (in my opinion)
> of the beat
generation.
=== In the first
place, I wasn't talking about the Beat Generation. In
the second place,
you're mixing the terminology - the core members of
the 'Beats' are
not the entire 'Beat Generation' itself. Any
'generation' tag
such as this (or "generation x") is always a misnomer
anyway, since no
5-10 people can ever represent an entire generation,
but
nevertheless.....I was not referring to the Beats specifically in
the above quote,
I was referring to, as I said, each and any generation.
> so where
does that leave us? who are our nonconformists? the uni-bomber?
=== I think the
Unabomber is the most important act of "non serviam" to
happen since the
Weathermen. I have my suspicions that Ted Kaczynski and
the author of the
manifesto and the perps behind the bombings are three
different
persons/entities, including the CIA, but that doesn't matter.
The manifesto and
the Myth of the Unabomber are the important thing.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JSH : trippin' on
peanut butter and elvis costello
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:54:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: the 50's stereotype and playboy
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
no, no, no. i'm not saying that sex isn't natural at
all. what i'm saying is
that the 50's
concept of sexuality presented it as being natural ONLY for
white male
heterosexuals. extramarital sex was
still unacceptable for
females (but not
males) homosexuality was still
considered perverse and
deviant. black males remained societally de-sexed (a
hand down from
slavery). and black women were considered sexual
temptresses (again a result
of slavery). (i apologise for not discussing other groups
here, but my
knowledge is
limited)
sex is good (or, at least, it can be). but the morality of the 50's did not
allow for a
diverse understanding of sexuality.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:03:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
so i'm helping to
organize a class on jack and allen. we
must have otr read
by tomarrow. i am interested in anyone's opinions, ideas,
etc. for topics of
discussion during
the meeting. i'm not looking for
"wow! on the road changed
my
life!" i'm hoping more for,
biographical, historical information, etc.
it would also be
helpful if anyone can give me a basic rundown of which
characters
correspond to which actual people.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:10:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/16/98 5:08:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Sockmunkie@AOL.COM
writes:
> it would
also be helpful if anyone can give me a basic rundown of which
> characters correspond to which actual people.
See the appendix
to Ann Charters' biography of JK.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:11:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Carlo Marx- Allen
Ginsberg
Old Bull Lee-
William S. B.
Sal Paradise-
hmmmmmmmmmmm, must I ??
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:33:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mr Mojo Risin <KrwlnKgSnk@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
this a page with
all the character alias in all of Kerouac books
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Lists/KerouacNames.html
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Unconventionality
and nonconformity arent necessarily negative, not for me
anyway. All I
meant was that people should do things that they want to do
and not what everyone
wants them to do..
On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, JULIANA
PABON wrote:
> and yet
again my friend, what is nonconformity??
> if what i
stand for is completely out of your realm, if what i believe in
> does not
make it to your belief of what is "right", if how i live my life
> is
reminiscent of the social taboo...then are you a noncomformist? does a
> mere
disqualification of others make us unconventional?
>
> On Mon, 16
Feb 1998, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
>
> > I guess
I associate unconventionality with nonconformity
> > On Mon,
16 Feb 1998, JULIANA PABON wrote:
> >
> > > it
all boils down to definitions, yet again.
think about it...my
> > >
definition of "unconventional" can be completely different than
yours..or
> > >
even webster's. but if we take it all to
mean a general expression of
> > >
"different", well, then i do feel that BEAT dictates unconventional
> > >
actions. how unconventional one needs to be in order to take up rank with
> > >
the likes that brenda knight writes about however, remain to be seen.
> > > by
defining ANYTHING we set limits to the very thing we attempt to
> > >
explain, but tell me, what do you feel makes someone unconventional??
> > >
> > >
> > > On
Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
> > >
> > >
> mmmhh..interesting. I think I agree with it but I also feel like BEAT
cant
> > >
> be explicitly explained. I think that Brenda Knight is decsribing the
> > >
> characteristics of BEAT, so shes not really defining. Its a hard thing
to
> > >
> define...
> > >
> Websters New World Dictionary, circa 1990 writes :adj 1. tired out, 2.of
a
> > >
> group of young persons,esp of the 1950's expressing social
disillusionment
> > >
> by unconventional dress, actions, ect. I dont know about the
> > >
> unconventional dress but unconvential actions seems about right...
> > >
> What do you think?
> > >
> On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, JULIANA PABON
wrote:
> > >
>
> > >
> > i read this this morning.
according to Brenda Knight:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > "Beat is underground, raw, unedited, pure, shocking. Beat can't be
> > >
> > refined, sanitized, second-guessed, premeditated; it must be
immediate.
> > >
> > Beat is an explosion, a vomiting of vision."
> > >
> >
> > >
> > from _Women of the Beat Generation_
> > >
> >
> > >
>
> > >
> ********Had we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
> > >
> world.--Archimedes*********
> > >
>
> > >
> >
> >
********Had we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
> >
world.--Archimedes*********
> >
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:42:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Today's Generation (was: hey jhs)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What high
school/college kids? Certaintly not me, and I think more the
rule than the
exception....
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, A Clockwork Mango wrote:
> Carly
Earnshaw said:
>
> > okay,
so i agree with a lot of the things that you said in
> > your
post to d.patrick. what i don't agree
with is your
> > dismal
outlook on today's generation. remember,
a lot of
> > people
would have called the beats "aimless youth" before
> > they
became famous and established a massive cult following.
> > also,
be sure not to exclude the subcultures of today's young
> >
generation....beat wasn't exactly mainstream and what was
> >
mainstream was fairly undesirable (well, to me anyway)
>
>
> === I'm not
saying the youth of today is hopeless - in fact, things seem
> much better
now than they were about five years ago - but something I
> have noticed
in high school/college kids, in increasing number and
> degree of
intensity since the mid-1980's, is a growing lack of
> curiosity.
The popularity of the Internet seems to have reversed this
> trend for
the time being, but I wonder if it will be permanent or lead
> to an even
greater anhedonia.
>
> There are
always standout kids in each generation who think for
> themselves
and have an innate curiosity about life, but it seems they
> are lesser
in number today, and each are thrown all in increasingly
> specialized
directions, forced into ever-shrinking thought boxes - most
> forms of
remotely alternative music now have subgenres spinning off of
> their
subgenres. You can't just be Punk anymore, you have to choose
> between
hardcore, '77, straight edge, poli-punk, crust, stenchcore,
> etc. You can't just be Techno anymore, you have to
choose between
> Ambient,
Rave, Trip Hop, House, Goth, Hip House, Manchester, Hard
> Techno,
etc. The more people like me try to blur
all boundaries and
> make labels
and distinctions vaguer, they just keep splitting hairs into
>
infinitesimally smaller fad-camps with shorter and shorter life spans.
> Attention
spans seem to be getting microscopic. The increasing
> fragmentation
makes it difficult to organize people into sharing any
> common
ideas.
>
> Then again,
perhaps I'm just nostalgic for the days when it was just "Us
> vs.
Them" and we all knew who They were.
>
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland
- gorged on fried birds - ky.
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:45:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ann Charter's
Beat Reader has all the info you need..
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998, <Carly Earnshaw> wrote:
> so i'm
helping to organize a class on jack and allen.
we must have otr read
> by
tomarrow. i am interested in anyone's
opinions, ideas, etc. for topics of
> discussion
during the meeting. i'm not looking for
"wow! on the road changed
> my
life!" i'm hoping more for,
biographical, historical information, etc.
> it would
also be helpful if anyone can give me a basic rundown of which
> characters
correspond to which actual people.
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:49:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Eugene
Comments: To: Hey
Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Eugene
(In memory of
Eugene Deherme)
Vibration
released.
Friend, 48, gone,
gone, gone.
Rogue cells
eaten.
Transformed to
Release energy to
New form.
This prayer for
Friend, music,
meditation
Altered states,
yoga, and poetry.
Soul to soul
stood we.
Brothers.
Talking without
words.
This prayer for
me, from me.
No more shall his
spirit
Fill my heart.
No more shall his
feeling
This way come.
No more shall I
walk
Among this
garden.
Gone, gone, gone.
Alone.
Eugene,
Splendid in life.
More splendid
now.
Free from form
Energy disperses
And reforms as
galaxies collide.
Eugene, I shall
miss your
Friendship.
Eugene,
Do not fail
To
Keep
On
Keeping
On
Across
The
Milky
Way
And then onward.
Februray 16, 1998
To an unknown
brother for a wise cyber-friend.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:39:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TazminX@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-16 19:04:55 EST, you write:
<< Had she
been a man and had written her sexual
memoirs, people wouldn't be making such a big
deal out of it. Kerouac
boinked a lot of people, and I don't recall
him, or Ginsberg, for that
matter, ever being refered to as a
"skank." >>
is it a surprise
to anyone that there was a double standard? especially in the
50's?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:52:02 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> What do all
these things mean? Modernist, etc. How do you differetiate
> between the
different styles?
I'll take a quick
shot at this ... if you agree that there is
such a thing as a
traditional or classical approach to art
or music or
writing, then the modernist style would be a
style that
attempts to break away from the traditional/classical
in a bold,
definitive way.
So if
Michelangelo, Beethoven and Shakespeare are
classical, Monet,
Stravinsky and T.S. Eliot are modernist.
Post-modernism is
then usually meant to describe a style
that is aware of
modernism, but more accepting of traditional
or classical
elements in a modern, sometimes ironic setting.
Post-modernism is
often humorous and self-conscious where
modernism is
serious and highly political. Andy
Warhol,
Bob Dylan and
Kurt Vonnegut seem like good examples
of
post-modernists.
I agree that
Ginsberg seemed more modernist than
post-modernist --
his career was spent engaging and
fighting the old
guard, and he didn't seem to care much
for ironic
distance. Burroughs seemed more
post-modern,
and Kerouac
really worked within traditional (pre-modern)
forms, mainly
straight narrative fiction.
All these
classifications fall apart easily, of course, if
you poke at them
at all. I find the terms useful anyway.
Interestingly,
the only art form in which the terms really
hold up well is
architecture. The modernist movement in
architecture
attempted to strip away all decorative or
non-essential
elements, so a modernist building is usually
a completely
clean, simple glass box. Post-modern
architecture
allows decorative elements to return, but
as discrete
additions to otherwise clean, stripped-down
modern
buildings. So in New York City the
Public Library
is classical, the
Seagram Building is modern, the Chrysler
Building (with
it's spire and metal gargoyles) is
post-modern.
OK, I'll stop
sounding like a textbook now.
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com |
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| "I think somebody better put out
the big light" |
| -- Elvis
Costello |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:55:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Lord Buckley, Lenny Bruce
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Matthew Sorenson
wrote:
> I just heard Lord Buckley's Hip Ghan and
also Lenny Bruce's routine
> about
marrying a horse. Does anybody know
where I can here more of these
> guys'
stuff? Maaan, thats some brilliant
surreal stuff. For some reason
that
> stuff hits
some strange undercurrents/sensorypickups and gets so goofy
its
> just not
goofy anymore- its got that deep, illustrious ramblin' thang
goin'
> on. Anyhoo, anybody got any leads for me?
Can't speak for
Buckley, but much good Bruce material is out on CD.
Fantasy has two
"twofer" CD's (two LP's on one CD) out featuring four of
Lenny's
LP's...The Lenny Bruce Originals Vol. 1 (The Sick Humor Of Lenny
Bruce and
Interviews Of Our Times) and Vol. 2 (Togetherness and Lenny
Bruce-American). World Pacific (a subsidiary of Capitol
Records) has The
Carnegie Hall
Concert (AKA the "midnight concert"), an uncut, unedited
performance from
1961 on two CD's. Rhino has re-released
the
Bizarre/Straight
Records album called The Berkeley Concert (another
unedited
performance, produced by Frank Zappa).
And there's a low-fi
performance from
Chicago in 1962 on Viper's Nest Records called Lenny Bruce
Live! Busted!,
which features the actual bust of our hero by Chicago's
finest for
naughty language.
Enjoy!
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:02:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Its no surprise
to me and its an old and chliched debate..
On Mon, 16 Feb
1998 TazminX@AOL.COM wrote:
> In a message
dated 98-02-16 19:04:55 EST, you write:
>
> << Had
she been a man and had written her sexual
> memoirs, people wouldn't be making such a big
deal out of it. Kerouac
> boinked a lot of people, and I don't recall
him, or Ginsberg, for that
> matter, ever being refered to as a
"skank." >>
>
> is it a
surprise to anyone that there was a double standard? especially in the
> 50's?
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:05:14 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Why we *should* all read Diane
DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
TazminX@AOL.COM
wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 98-02-16 19:04:55 EST, you write:
>
> << Had
she been a man and had written her sexual
> memoirs, people wouldn't be making such a big
deal out of it. Kerouac
> boinked a lot of people, and I don't recall
him, or Ginsberg, for that
> matter, ever being refered to as a
"skank." >>
>
> is it a
surprise to anyone that there was a double standard? especially in the
> 50's?
good point except
the poor soul saying it said it in the 90's.
He also
gaurenteed that
none of the women involved with the beats.. , oh it was
a bunch of silly
crap.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:31:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TazminX@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Punk Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-16 19:56:38 EST, you write:
<< Henry
Rollins gives more about staying in shape and staying healthy and
eating yogurt and being a health-freak... not
the type of guy I think Jack
Kerouac or
Neal Cassady would really be able to have a
good time with.
And it there's one thing I think those two
wanted, is just,
'to have a good time'. Fact that they lived their lives to
the max, >>
hmmm...almost
sounds like a description of Japhy Ryder! Jack..oops, I mean
Ray..seemed more
than happy to "live life to the max" climbing a mountain
fueled by bulgar
and freeze dried vegetables. my point is yes i think they all
had a great time
drinking and all that but i believe what attracted all of the
beats to each
other was a mental thing. not what they
wore or ate. expanding
consciousness
does not have to happen thru drugs.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:49:01 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: TazminX@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Today's Generation (was: hey jhs)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-16 19:52:27 EST, you write:
<< There
are always standout kids in each generation who think for
themselves and have an innate curiosity about
life, but it seems they
are lesser in number today, >>
lesser number
today? there were really only 5 - 10 key members (in my opinion)
of the beat
generation. everyone followed their
lead. so it seems, as
always, the more
things change....
we live in a
homogenized society where everything is instantaneously
mainstream (i
blame TV, particularly MTV, and the internet). so where does
that leave us?
who are our nonconformists? the uni-bomber? jeffrey dahmer
(sp?)? are they
the only ones rebelling against society? doing something
different? maybe.
the problem of
people not thinking for themselves is not unique to the 90s.
the majority of
americans are probably not even aware that they don't think
for
themselves. they just follow the status
quo and believe all the crap they
are spoon fed
because they don't know any better. they
don't know that they
can question
everything/anything.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender: jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:03:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane DiPrima and all that jazz....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>i have to
say, the recently posted is the only poem i've ever read of diane's,
>but i've
heard much of the criticism towards her asserting that she couldn't
>write, was
just a groupie, was making an easy buck off her sexual exploits
>(pardon the
pun), etc. but i was impressed by the
piece and it makes me
>wonder if all
those criticizing her are actually attempting to minimilize her,
>as a beat
writer, into the same trivial and
demeaning position that so many
>of our
beloved beats felt fitting for women.
>--ce
A great poem. I
sure would like to see anything/everything (poetry) any one
has written on
the subject of abortion, that comes close. I'd sure add it
to my files.
As for
diminishing the women beats, I think it's obvious. Can't imagine
that anyone would
be surprised.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:23:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Lord Buckley, Lenny Bruce
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> I just heard Lord Buckley's Hip Ghan and
also Lenny Bruce's routine
>about
marrying a horse. Does anybody know
where I can here more of these
>guys'
stuff? Maaan, thats some brilliant
surreal stuff. For some reason that
>stuff hits
some strange undercurrents/sensorypickups and gets so goofy its
>just not
goofy anymore- its got that deep, illustrious ramblin' thang goin'
>on. Anyhoo, anybody got any leads for me?
Lenny Bruce has
at least the folowing two CDs:
Lenny Bruce
Originals Vol 1 and Vol 2.
I know there are
more.
Lord Buckley must
have CDs.
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.22]
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:32:31 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?/Re: Eric: Modernism
vs. Postmodernism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ahh, L. Ascher
beat me to the definition of Modernism and Postmodernism.
It's quite a nice
a nice explanation though, so perhaps so much the
better. Oh well.
I'll add mine too, just for kicks (which will have no
references to
anything else as I typed it away from this newsgroup).
These are my
thoughts on Modernism and Postmodernism as it pertains to
Art. I can t say I m a student of Critical Theory,
but this is what
I ve found in my
reading. I have also asked this question
to one of my
professors who
happens to be a scholar in comparative modern literature,
and therefore I
shall be receiving an answer from him tomorrow, at which
time I will send
an addendum to this message.
Modernism, in its
general definition, is the departure from the old,
traditional method. In the case of the 20th century variety of
Modernism,
the old school would be Realism.
A bit of
history: Romanticism, a departure from
Neoclassicism (a
revival of the
Classical ideas) placed emphasis on the emotions and
passions of the
human kind. It exalted the common man,
showed an
appreciation of
the external world, and utilized older, more traditional
styles. I believe that this coincided with
Impressionism in the visual
arts. Realism, the following Era, as is evident in
the word, stressed
Reality, the
things that are real. Naturalism, an
off-shoot of Realism,
a member of which
was Melville, emphasized observation of life with all
its evils, devoid
of idealization.
Now,
Modernism. The way I see it, it
attempted to express feelings and
ideas in creating
abstractions and fantasies, as opposed to
demonstrating
exactly what is real. Cezanne was
the father of this
movement. Modernism was very idealistic, believing in
continual
progress and
perhaps eventual attainment of perfection through
technology and
rationalism. After WWII, most saw the
computer and
plastics and
airplanes as our way to salvation.
Rationalism and
rationality were
key; however, this also led to the relative disinterest
in radical,
non-modernistic thought. Hence, the sterile 50 s , as
someone on BEAT-L
put it. Modernism focused on the
essential
characteristics
of medium, in a sense, formalism. Art
from this era
also required
interaction between the painting and the observer; as
opposed to a painting
of a tree, in which any Joe Shmoe can see a tree,
a modernist
painting would be, say, various geometrical designs, and the
audience would
have to understand the underlying motive of the painter
(or author, or
poet, depending on medium) to draw a conclusion of the
meaning.
Does that make
any sense at all? Picasso, van Gogh,
Mondrian, were all
constituents of
this Age.
Postmodernism is
simply (or not so simply) the ridicule of the Modern
age. It denies, or at least weakens its faith, in
rationalism, preferrs
uncertainty, and
uses much irony, mockery, parody, and humor.
In a way,
as it both
utilizes past cultural movements and makes fun of them, it is
a sort of
Meta-art, critiquing art in its own art.
Much illogical,
nonsensical stuff
here, including Surrealism and Dadaism.
It is quite
difficult to categorize Postmodernism as its basic tenet is
its absence of
analytical categories, handy for scholars to use and
dissect. Both Modernism and Postmodernism are abstract
in ways
Modernism abstracts
to show Logic and Ideals, Postmodernism abstracts to
show lack of
Ideals and Reason.
I think that s
all I can say about that. I hope I haven
t muddled
everything even
more.
In this context,
I would have to evaluate Ginsberg as a Postmodernist.
>> What do
all these things mean? Modernist, etc. How do you
>>differetiate
>> between
the different styles?
>
>I'll take a
quick shot at this ... if you agree that there is
>such a thing
as a traditional or classical approach to art
>or music or writing,
then the modernist style would be a
>style that
attempts to break away from the traditional/classical
>in a bold,
definitive way.
>
>So if
Michelangelo, Beethoven and Shakespeare are
>classical,
Monet, Stravinsky and T.S. Eliot are modernist.
>Post-modernism
is then usually meant to describe a style
>that is aware
of modernism, but more accepting of traditional
>or classical
elements in a modern, sometimes ironic setting.
>Post-modernism
is often humorous and self-conscious where
>modernism is
serious and highly political. Andy
Warhol,
>Bob Dylan and
Kurt Vonnegut seem like good examples
>of
post-modernists.
>
>I agree that
Ginsberg seemed more modernist than
>post-modernist
-- his career was spent engaging and
>fighting the
old guard, and he didn't seem to care much
>for ironic
distance. Burroughs seemed more
post-modern,
>and Kerouac
really worked within traditional (pre-modern)
>forms, mainly
straight narrative fiction.
>
>All these
classifications fall apart easily, of course, if
>you poke at
them at all. I find the terms useful
anyway.
>Interestingly,
the only art form in which the terms really
>hold up well
is architecture. The modernist movement
in
>architecture
attempted to strip away all decorative or
>non-essential
elements, so a modernist building is usually
>a completely
clean, simple glass box.
Frank Lloyd
Wright, no?
> Post-modern
>architecture
allows decorative elements to return, but
>as discrete
additions to otherwise clean, stripped-down
>modern
buildings. So in New York City the
Public Library
>is classical,
the Seagram Building is modern, the Chrysler
>Building
(with it's spire and metal gargoyles) is
>post-modern.
Art Deco, to be
more precise. But this is confusing, as
it was built in
the 1930's,
firmly in the Age of Modernism. Wacky
stuff.
>---------------------------------------------------------
>| Levi Asher
= brooklyn@netcom.com
|
-Christopher
Moore
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.23]
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:51:41 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Today's Generation (was: hey jhs)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> There
are always standout kids in each generation who think for
>>
themselves and have an innate curiosity about life, but it seems >>
they
>> are
lesser in number today, >>
>
>lesser number
today? there were really only 5 - 10 key members (in >my
opinion)
>of the beat
generation. everyone followed their
lead. so it seems,
>as
>always, the
more things change....
>we live in a
homogenized society where everything is instantaneously
>mainstream (i
blame TV, particularly MTV, and the internet). so where
does
>that leave us?
who are our nonconformists? the uni-bomber? jeffrey
dahmer
>(sp?)? are
they the only ones rebelling against society? doing
something
>different?
maybe.
>the problem
of people not thinking for themselves is not unique to the
90s.
>the majority
of americans are probably not even aware that they don't
think
>for
themselves. they just follow the status
quo and believe all the
crap they
>are spoon fed
because they don't know any better. they
don't know that
they
>can question
everything/anything.
>
I don't mean to
criticize your entire point here, but I would like to
make several
exceptions. There are a heck of a lot of
non-conformists
(and not just
non-conformists for the sake of non-conforming). The
problem with them
is that they're not mainstreem, thereby receiving very
little publicity
and notoriety. Surely murders and
unabombers will,
because of the
nature and outcome of their non-conformity.
But many
many others
either keep to themselves, do not have leadership potential
or want (as some
of the well-known Beats did), or just do not attract
attention. In the Beat Generation, I am positive there
were plenty more
than 5-10, or
even 50-100, who generally held the ideals, who genuinely
went against the
status quo and prevailing philosophy at the time.
And now, today, I
can be certain that there are so many (surely a minute
minority, of
course, fractions of a percent, yet still a sizeable
number) who do think for themselves. Again, as it's not a mass
movement, and,
inherent in these free-thinkers, they do not conglomerate
as easily as
other people, they are not so known. But
to stereotype
*everybody* by
the vast majority sort of bothers me.
It's what's going
to happen with democracy, but it just does irk me
sometimes.
Christopher.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.23]
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:00:06 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> so i'm
helping to organize a class on jack and allen.
we must >>
have otr read
>> by
tomarrow. i am interested in anyone's
opinions, ideas, etc. >>
for topics of
>>
discussion during the meeting. i'm not
looking for "wow! on the >>
road changed
>> my
life!" i'm hoping more for,
biographical, historical >>
information, etc.
>> it would
also be helpful if anyone can give me a basic rundown of >>
which
>>
characters correspond to which actual people.
Ahh. Why don't you discuss the issues of
Romanticism vs. Realism, as in
Dean vs.
Sal? Or the issues of transcendentalism
inherent in the novel,
or the Freedom
aspect, orthe "on the road, moving" aspect, etc. etc.
Themes are neat.
Christopher.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[152.163.195.88]
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:31:04 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "n. r."
<nremez@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Mon Feb 16 15:55:40 1998
>Received:
from listserv (128.228.100.10) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP
for Windows NT
v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.FFAA6CC0@listserv.cuny.edu>; Mon,
16 Feb 1998
18:52:15 -0500
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release
1.8c) with
> NJE id 9661 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Mon, 16 Feb 1998
18:55:43
> -0500
>Received:
from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP3@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(LMail
> V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 4494; Mon,
16 Feb 1998 18:55:04
-0500
>Received:
from westga.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with
TCP; Mon,
> 16 Feb 98 18:54:59 EST
>Received:
from localhost (stu5293@localhost) by westga.edu
(8.8.5/8.6.10)
with
> SMTP id SAA25481 for
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>; Mon, 16 Feb
1998
> 18:55:14 -0500 (EST)
>X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
>MIME-Version:
1.0
>Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>Message-ID:
<Pine.SOL.3.96.980216184754.23895A-100000@sun.cc.westga.edu>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:55:14 -0500
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: The Last Hurrah! <stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Is you is (Beat) or is you aint
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In-Reply-To: <34E87B86.1CEC@iclub.org>
>
>I have to
agree with this person. The notion that someone can't truly
>understand a
period or an era just because they never lived it is
>preposterous!
Even if we young
ones accept that we can't fully understand events that
occured almost
half a century ago, is it not enough to show our
appreciation by
embracing what has been left behind for us?
To be
excluded by
something as futile as time and the pattern of birth order
seems almost
immoral.
You've got me,
I'm young and ignorant but I'm also trying to better
myself. Discovering the Beat Generation was an
entrance into a world
that I will never
fully be a part of. That time is
over. I'm envious
of those that
lived it, but all the same, no one is going to tell me
that my
appreciation is not valid.
natasha.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:44:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg query?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Interestingly, the only art form in which the terms really
> hold up well
is architecture. The modernist movement
in
> architecture
attempted to strip away all decorative or
>
non-essential elements, so a modernist building is usually
> a completely
clean, simple glass box. Post-modern
> architecture
allows decorative elements to return, but
> as discrete
additions to otherwise clean, stripped-down
> modern
buildings. So in New York City the
Public Library
> is
classical, the Seagram Building is modern, the Chrysler
> Building
(with it's spire and metal gargoyles) is
> post-modern.
Interesting that
you bring this up. For anyone who's read
_The
Fountainhead_ by
Ayn Rand, did anyone see any resemblances between the
group of writers
organized and held up as "the great new artists" by the
critic (sorry,
can't remember his name this moment) and our friends the
Beats? I found it quite startling that Rand created
a bunch of poets and
writers and
playwrights whose styles and ideas mirrored the Beats and
other artists
that would come to prominance years after she wrote it. For
someone looking
at the differences between Modern and post-modern,
architecture is a
good place to start as well as other visual arts. Here,
its easier to get
a handle on the ways of thinking.
No one's ideas of
what they are and aren't have completely satisfied me
nor my
understanding of them, mostly because they're bigger, I think, than
a simple
definition would allow. Took me a
semester's worth of American
art history to
get a working idea with which to apply it to other
disciplines. It is a _highly_ academic discussion that
would be mighty
nifty to pursue
but not one that lends itself to such a large group
conversing
out-of-order via email without a common understanding and
experience of
what everything means.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:56:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: BACK TO LITERATURE -J. DIDION
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 05:00 PM
2/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Marie...thanks
for the Corso and JK poetry....
>
>can we please
try and get back to nature of this list...namely
>Literature......
>
>The posts
over the last few days about women writers had me thinking
>of Joan
Didion. I picked up _Slouching Towards
Bethlehem_ and _The
>White Album_
at a used bookstore ages ago and have yet to read them.
>Didion's name
seems to pop up alot (not on this list..but other places).
>..I don't
know much about her? Can anyone fill me
in? Any opinions of
>her work?
>
>What about
Anne Waldeman as a female beat writer??
>
>Dawn
>
>I read
Slouching Toward Bethlehem and didn't like it.
She wrote a book
about driving on
the LA Freeway whose title I can't recall.
She writes
pretty fair
journalism, and she and her husband, John Gregory Dunne, brother
of Dominic, write
horribly commercial screenplays like the Third Star is Born
and Up Close and
Personal. Dunne wrote recently that The
English Patient was
a descendant of
Out of Africa. I disagree, it is the son
of Lawrence of
Arabia
and David Lean.
Mike Rice
Just rememberd
the book, Play It As It Lays. It was
boring and awful. J.
G. Dunne
wrote an
interesting scrrenplay of his novel, True Confessions, in which he
gets
Monsignor Robert
De Niro, getting dressed to perform a mass, says to a
developer,
"Oh Yaeh, we
met her, but you fucked her!"
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:57:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Today's Generation (was: hey jhs)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
sad, sad, but
true. and what can you do about it. say,
"hey man. you don't
think for
yourself, and um, i do." but of course,
we've all been socialized
with awful stuff
to an insane degree. none of us can
escape it. the best we
can do is
try. so,sad, so sad.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 02:02:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i would really
like to hear what you think about some of this stuff. you
could start with
the romantic vs. realist stuff. all this beat stuff is
pretty new to me
and everyone else in the class and i'd like to bring as much
to it as
possible. thanks.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 02:07:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: marie countryman, i love your poetry....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
and just the way
you write in general. i've gotten the
impression that you're
an established
(eh-hem, published) poet. is there any
way i can get a hold of
your work.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
podulkca@uwec.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 04:35:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cathrine Podulke
<podulkca@UWEC.EDU>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>it would also
be helpful if anyone can give me a basic rundown of which
>characters
correspond to which actual people.
>
Look in Kerouac's
_Book of Dreams_. It has a list of who's who in OTR and
two other of his
books.
Kat
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:46:21 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: brass furnace going out(after
abortion)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
powerful pome,
stephanie: certainly not the work of some (loosely quoted here)
"wanna be
lying around complaining of cramps and menstrual blood"
thank you for
typing it in its entirety.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:20:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: diprima/stephanie/jeff at waterrow
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
stephanie: what
volume did that come from , that incredible pome? no
diprima anywhere
on the shelves in my town. jeff: do you carry it?
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:35:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
YO! sista-woman!
(with a tip of the hat to mr stauffer as well: many realities
exist in the same
time period, my brother's 57 chevy was really cool, and the
men
who went forward
with rockand roll and began to break out of the conformist
rules.) but
actually, in many ways it was the era, beat and mainstream that saw
little to offer
from women except food on the table and sex in the bed (or in
the
beats case, just
about anywhere) yes, it was also the era
that spawned those
gruesome happy
family shows on tv ('father knows best') and in 'girls fiction' -
ie, who remembers
the 'bobbies twins? and betty crocker and aunt jemima and
emily
post and garters
and girdles and 'training bras' - i never did get that concept!
i asked my mother
what sporting event they were for.
mc
i hate to do
this, but....
> perhaps the
50's were sexy....for white heterosexual
men. Playboy (which
> was pretty
much the driving force behind the sexiness of the fifties--marilyn
> monroe was
the cenerfold for the first issue) came out with its first issue
> (in '56 i
believe) and made sex the "natural
and healthy" ideal for the
> white
heterosexual male. unfortunately, it
also produced and reinforced
> unrealistic
images for women to conform to in order
to satisfy their male
> lovers. it also reinforced the idea that
heterosexulity was the only accepted
> norm.
>
> i know this
is getting off on a bit of a tangent, but while you cavort about
> praising the
positive aspects of the 50's, understand that it wasn't so
> positive for
a lot of people. and for those who
rebelled--hopefully--it
> wasn't just
a matter of sexiness and being cool, rather the only alternative
> to an
oppressive society.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:57:48 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: marie countryman, i love your
poetry....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
and just the way
you write in general. i've gotten the impression that you're
> an established
(eh-hem, published) poet. is there any
way i can get a hold of
> your work.
well i sure am
taken aback (albeit flattered as well). i had done years of
academic writing
as grad studendt, etc, over 20 yrs ago.. strangely, coming out
of a total train
wreck of marriage and total breakdown, including madness and
hospitalization, i wrote my first pome the day that allen
ginsberg died, and
have not stopped
since. i sure wish i could get published
(who here wouldn't?
and there are
those on the list who have). if you send me email privately
country@sover.net
i'll zap you some
pomes unpublished.
i did have 2
pieces in john amato's articulata: a place for poetry
but both have
been extensively editied since then. derek did a beautiful
chapbook
for me of my In
Somnia poem, which has since undergone radical surgery. but
remains a
beautiful piece of printing, labor of love design.
mc
and just the way
you write in general. i've gotten the impression that you're
> an
established (eh-hem, published) poet. is
there any way i can get a hold of
> your work.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
hlinh@pop.student.uib.no
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:06:28 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nils-Xivind Haagensen
<hlinh@POP.STUDENT.UIB.NO>
Subject: Re: is you is (beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
to eric:
I don't think
there's ONE CORRECT way to understand something, anything, do
you? So what if
you don't approve of "our" way to read beat literature, why
should that
bother me? Why should it bother you? When you and your beat
friends read On
the Road (at 16) did you agree on absolutely everything? I
don't think
that's possible, and certainly not desirable. No-one's a more
priviliged reader
than anyone else, if you ask me eric, and you shouldnt,
that is you to
say you cant accuse anyone of "wrongdoing" in this respect.
And I don't have
to tell you to dig it just in order to talk (or, in this
case, write) to
you¨, do I?
sincerly
nils
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:49:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Why We Should Read Diane DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Because from her
poem "Rant. " Too long to quote here, but includes:
"... There
is no way out of the spiritual battle
the war is the
war against the imagination
you can't sign up
as a conscientious objector
....
the taste in all
our mouths is the taste of our power
and it is bitter
as death
bring yr self
home to yrself, enter the garden
the guy at the
gate with the flaming sword is yrslf
The war is the
war against the human imagination
And no one can
fight it but you/ & no one can fight it for you...."
****
"Rant"
Copyright (c) by Diane di Prima from Pieces of a Song by Diane di
Prima, published
1990 by City Lights Books
from a poster by
White Fields Press for the literary renaissance, thank
you Ron
Whitehead.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Envelope-to:
beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu
X-VMS-To:
IN%"beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu"
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:04:48 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac limited edition cd
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This weekend I
went on an excursion to Seattle (where I had a great time
seeing the
Kerouac play and coffee afterwards, btw!) and stopped in at
Borders Books and
Music and Whatever Else They Sell. I
ordered the two
Kerouac cds they
could get in -- one is a box set (3, I think), and the
other is the
limited edition cd.
Does anyone own
either of these? I think I remember
someone saying they
picked up the
limited edition one -- how much was it?
The man there said
the price didn't
come up on the computer so I'm a bit worried.
:) I know
the other is
about $50.
What about the
quality and content?
Thanks,
Mary
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:53:26 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
Carly
<P>I wasn't
arguing that the 50's were perfect, just that the notion that
the awful 50's
basically drove JK to commit suicide. Societies are
almost always
oppressive, that is what they are for (if you buy the argument
Freud makes in
<I>Civilization and Its Discontents</I>, and creative types
generally
rebel--at least that has been true for the last two or three
centuries--they
would probably have been rebellious sooner except that
the only way to
make an artistic living used to be through either the king
or the
church. Kerouac, Cassidy, Corso, etc, were white men.
The 50's see the
birth of rock n roll, the start of the civil rights movement
in many ways, a
real flowering of writing about homosexuality. Jobs
were much
easier. It was much easier to move around the country,
find a job, stay
for awhile and move on. It was fluid, in some ways.
Not good for
women, I agree, but that was true inside and out of the Beat
world.
My only point is that certainly the 50's were for a huge majority
a time of grey
flannel conformity at the same time there was an explosion
of rebellious
creativity and exploration.
<P>JS
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
TYPE=CITE>perhaps the 50's were sexy....for white heterosexual
men.
Playboy (which
<BR>was
pretty much the driving force behind the sexiness of the
fifties--marilyn
<BR>monroe
was the cenerfold for the first issue) came out with its first
issue
<BR>(in '56
i believe) and made sex the "natural and healthy"
ideal for the
<BR>white
heterosexual male. unfortunately, it also produced and
reinforced
<BR>unrealistic
images for women to conform to in order to satisfy
their male
<BR>lovers.
it also reinforced the idea that heterosexulity was the
only accepted
<BR>norm.
<P>i know
this is getting off on a bit of a tangent, but while you cavort
about
<BR>praising
the positive aspects of the 50's, understand that it wasn't
so
<BR>positive
for a lot of people. and for those who
rebelled--hopefully--it
<BR>wasn't
just a matter of sexiness and being cool, rather the only alternative
<BR>to an
oppressive society.</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:52:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JULIANA PABON <julie36@BU.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
the problem with
america is that anything original becomes a theme park.
really, would you
be as interested in what is beat is it were a prereq
class you had to
take to get out of college??? we are all
inherently
attracted to this
because not everybody is. if beat went
mainsteam we'd
be the first to
"look" for something else.
it's
inherent. and yes, it is sad...so sad...
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: SyNaPsEs
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01ITOGNMVKXU8Y74OY@mail.ewu.edu>
References:
Hunter S.
Thompson said, "the spirit of the 60s was really dead by 1967"
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:12:09 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac limited edition cd
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Mary Maconnell
wrote:
> This weekend
I went on an excursion to Seattle (where I had a great time
> seeing the
Kerouac play and coffee afterwards, btw!) and stopped in at
> Borders
Books and Music and Whatever Else They Sell.
I ordered the two
> Kerouac cds
they could get in -- one is a box set (3, I think), and the
> other is the
limited edition cd.
>
> Does anyone
own either of these? I think I remember
someone saying they
> picked up
the limited edition one -- how much was it?
The man there said
> the price
didn't come up on the computer so I'm a bit worried. :) I
know
> the other is
about $50.
What is this
limited edition CD? I did once see one
of the three albums
collected in the
Rhino box set released as a single CD by Verve within the
last year (sorry,
can't remember which album it was). Is
this possibly
what Mary has
ordered?
Jym
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:13:51 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Tue, 17
Feb 1998 19:05:54...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:05:54 +0100 with subject "SyNaPsEs"
has been
successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (251 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:20:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac limited edition cd
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
the kerouac
musical? what's up with that? sounds like it would be awful.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:51:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: corso and kerouac topics/pomes
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 01:07 PM
2/15/98 EST, you wrote:
>John Updike
wrote a very interesting essay on the fifties.
I could try and
>find it, if
anyone's interested. . .
>><CYAN><
>
>I'm
interested even tho I may have already read it in the New Yorker,
and forgotten
about it .
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:18:03 -0800
Reply-To: mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: eric mayhew <mayhewe@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: is you is (beat) or is you aint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nils-Xivind
Haagensen wrote:
>
> to eric:
> I don't
think there's ONE CORRECT way to understand something, anything, do
> you? So what
if you don't approve of "our" way to read beat literature, why
> should that
bother me? Why should it bother you? When you and your beat
> friends read
On the Road (at 16) did you agree on absolutely everything? I
> don't think
that's possible, and certainly not desirable. No-one's a more
> priviliged
reader than anyone else, if you ask me eric, and you shouldnt,
> that is you
to say you cant accuse anyone of "wrongdoing" in this respect.
> And I don't
have to tell you to dig it just in order to talk (or, in this
> case, write)
to you¨, do I?
>
> sincerly
> nils
I am sorry, I
don't know what you are saying. I was
just trying to tell
everyone that
there is a reason to study beat literature.
I was not
saying there is a
correct way to understand things. Maybe
you confused
me for someone
else. Try to clear things up if you
will.
eric
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:09:57 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Wills & His Texas Playboys
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: something like a william tell style
execution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
a friend recently
told me that wsb shot his wife in the head.
it was
written
> off as an
accident, and he wasn't even charged with manslaughter. this
> struck me as
a bit odd. can anyone bring a little
more light to the story for
> me?
=== On September
6, 1951 at a drunken get-together in Mexico, Bill was
playing with his
gun and said to Joan, "I guess it's about time for our
William Tell
act." She placed a glass on her head.
He fired and missed,
shooting her in
the head, killing her instantly. WSB was questioned by
the Mexican
Police and was not arrested but the case was still open and
pending when WSB
packed up and skipped out.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to
Kokomo Arnold's "Back To The Woods"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:16:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: kerouac musical
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i read about a
Kerouac Musical on a beat web page last night.
that's what i
meant. does anyone know anything about it?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:18:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: something like a william tell style
execution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
a friend recently
told me that wsb shot his wife in the head.
it was written
off as an
accident, and he wasn't even charged with manslaughter. this
struck me as a
bit odd. can anyone bring a little more
light to the story for
me?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
eam23@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:43:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: beth
<elizabeth.ann.mekker@DREXEL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Today's Generation (was: hey jhs)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Or perhaps people
do question society and its realms, but do not yet
verbalize that
malcontent to the rest of the world, including us. Perhaps
it's just a phone
call away from taking over the lives and thoughts of
thousands, of
becoming another movement. Or perhaps we
don't
listenandspread
the glorious new(s). beth...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:46:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rodney Lee Phillips
<philli31@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat videos--welch--San Diego archive
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello James--
Please contact me
if you would via back-channel. I'd like
to hear more about
the Welch
materials in the San Diego Archive. I've
got some interesting news
about my book on
the West coast Beats.
Best,
Rod Phillips
philli31@pilot.msu.edu
> > While working in the New Poetry
Archive at UC San
Diego last week on
Lew > Welch I
found references to a some film or video footage of Lew reading.
> Has anyone
seen these. When Gary Glazner was on the
list he also mentioned
> some Welch
footage. Anyclues would be appreciated
or also Gary's e-mail if
> anyone has
it, or if he is lurking these days.
>
> One of the
main attractions of the San Diego archive is the collection of
> the papers
of Donald Allen who edited the New American Poets, anothology,
> Evergreen
Review, and published poetry for Grove Press and then his own
> Grey Fox in
Bolinas. His records are beautifully
organized and kept and
> there are
good letters from almost any poet of the period you may be
>
studying. It's a great collection and the
folks there are helpful. There
> is something
about holding a letter by Jack or Lew in your hand that goes
> beyond
reading the same thing in a book--even if it were available. I am
> also getting
the tape (audio) of Lew's lecture that became "How I work as a
> Poet."
>
> James
Stauffer
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:57:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew Sorensen <Tcsorensen@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: something like a william tell style
execution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yeah, WSB put a
glass on his wife's head (After a rather large fix,
apparently), and
tried to shoot it off and killed her. He
was on the run from
the law anyway,
so he started traveling around in South America, Argentina I
think, and hiding
out there. Dats da deal!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:08:20 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: something like a william tell style
execution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bob Wills &
His Texas Playboys wrote:
>
> a friend
recently told me that wsb shot his wife in the head. it was
> written
> > off as
an accident, and he wasn't even charged with manslaughter. this
> > struck
me as a bit odd. can anyone bring a
little more light to the story
for
> > me?
>
> === On
September 6, 1951 at a drunken get-together in Mexico, Bill was
> playing with
his gun and said to Joan, "I guess it's about time for our
> William Tell
act." She placed a glass on her head.
He fired and missed,
> shooting her
in the head, killing her instantly. WSB was questioned by
> the Mexican
Police and was not arrested but the case was still open and
> pending when
WSB packed up and skipped out.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland - Berea, KY
> listening to
Kokomo Arnold's "Back To The Woods"
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I would recommend
reading the preface william wrote to Queer, Viking
edition,copyright
1985. It deals candidly with that period
and that
incident. It was an incredibly tragic moment for
william, more so for
joan of
course. I believe the repercussions
contributed to william jrs.
tragic life. I also would say that I consider the preface
some of the
best and
strongest writing written anywhere in that decade.
I was keeping house for William during
the period he wrote the
preface. I remember it as a very hard time for him. He
read some of the
manuscript to me,
then he stopped reading, and handed me the manuscript
to read one afternoon. I was lying across the
couch cryin hard through
the end. i do not cry easily. I was left with a sense
of sorrow so deep
that i had dark
dream after dream. I also gained some real understanding
of william. I eternally blame myself for things and won't
let things
go. Somewhere in those passages was a message
that one could let go
only by accepting
responsibility for what had happened.
James came in and they looked at each
other. I feel that this writing
was something
that had to occur, something about James and Williams
relationship was
involved. James was a postitive force in
williams life
to a remarkable
degree. I thought that William had dealt with facing
this black thing
and going through it. i remember a story
of some
interviewer
asking him if he had any regrets. His
response was shock,
he certainly had
regrets. He did not forget what he had done, he
remembered.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:17:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: diprima/stephanie/jeff at waterrow
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-17 11:08:22 EST, you write:
<<
stephanie: what volume did that come from , that incredible pome? no
diprima anywhere on the shelves in my town.
jeff: do you carry it?
mc >>
I have no idea-
found it on the internet. I've run into the same problem that
you have- no
DiPrima anywhere in this great Metropolitan City (and I've been
bitching about it
on Beat-L- sorry you guys...) However- hopefully my copy of
Pieces of Song
will be in soon... Until then, another poems I got off the web:
Be careful.
With what relief
do we fall back on
the tale, so
often told in revolutions
that now we must
organize, obey
the rules, so that later
we can be free.
It is the point
at which the
revolution stops. To be carried forward
later & in
another country, this is
the pattern, but
we can
break the pattern
learn now we see
with all our
skin, smell with our eyes too
sense & sex
are boundless & the call
is to be
boundless in them, make the joy
now, that we
want, no shape
for space &
time now but the shapes we will
REVOLUTIONARY
LETTER #48
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:20:56 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: beat buffet on sunday 1;30
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
You are invited
to my house sunday,in lawrence, for a buffet.
david
race will be
staying here at the beat hotel. i still have a pallet on
the floor that is
very comfortable for any beat wayfarers.
Lunch will
be around
1:30. I am celebrating a good draft of
my short story, a
friends promotion
to editor of cappers, that david will be in town. and
my success as the
fattest woman in my aerobic swimming class.
I truely want to thank everyone for the
wonderful help on my story. I
feel it finally
is getting somewhere.
so, crepes, ham,
cakes, pies, byob
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.21]
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:21:46 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I teach English on the high school level and
one of my
>favorite
elective courses is devoted to the writings of the Beats. My
>students--none
of whom were born before 1980--had no problem
understanding
>the
concept--of course, they were allowed to see videos, press
clippings,
>photos and to
hear recordings from that period. So what then is
Hornberger's
>or Moore's
problem?
>
>Sounds like a
bad case of cultural chauvinism to me.
>
>
>
Jeff Perchuk
>
I'd like to say
that it was *not* I who was saying that one had to be of
age during a lit.
or art or cultural movement to understand it and to
learn it, or vice
versa. I, in fact, was one who refuted
that claim by
I don't remember
whom, the claim that some people on this list, teens,
college students,
etc., would never understand the Beat Movement because
they did not live
during that time.
I totally agree
with you, J. Perchuk, in what you said about
appreciation and
increasing comprehension of a past culture.
I was
saying how any
literature movement is so essential to today, or any
cultural
movement, because it has eternal significance on the human
condition, blahdy
blah blah.
Thanks for
reinforcing and reiterating my point. It
is very essential.
Christopher
Moore.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:26:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Last Time I committed Suicide
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sorry if this was
discussed already, but...
Gotta love that
title. And letters that went between Neal Cassady and Jack
Kerouac now
presented as drama- very veyr interesting! So my friend and I
decide to rent
this video, but it turns out the ever vomitous Keanu Reeves
(rememeber him?
the man who ruined "my own private idaho"?) plays Kerouac!! Is
this for real?
Has anyone seen the movie? Has anyone read the script/seen
another
production (if there was any other production, stage etc)?
Thank you.
--Stephanie
and ps- Marie, I
didn't type all of Brass Furnace Going out, I found it that
way, although
wouldn't it have been a labor of love if I did transcribe the
whole thing!
Although I actually may have with my lazy self, if it had been
neccesary. My top
4 poems:
"Brass
furnace etc" Diane DiPrima
"The Love
Song of J Alfred Prufrock" TS Eliot
"Howl"
"The
Lords" Jim Morrison
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:59:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Last Time I committed Suicide
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> decide to
rent this video, but it turns out the ever vomitous Keanu
Reeves
> (rememeber
him? the man who ruined "my own private idaho"?) plays
Kerouac!! Is
I am sure that this has been covered,
but...
Keanu doesn't play Kerouac. It is a letter from neal to jack, with neal
describing an
event that took place prior to even meeting kerouac.
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
["The
strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear
[ arms is, as a
last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
[
government."
[
-- Thomas Jefferson
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:00:29 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Last Time et al
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Sorry if this
was discussed already, but...
>
>Gotta love
that title. And letters that went between Neal Cassady and Jack
>Kerouac now
presented as drama- very veyr interesting! So my friend and I
>decide to
rent this video, but it turns out the ever vomitous Keanu Reeves
>(rememeber
him? the man who ruined "my own private idaho"?) plays Kerouac!!
This character is
not supposed to be Kerouac. It was a
Denver friend of
Cassady's. I do recognize that the movie makers did try
to pattern him and
the made up
friend in the movie on Kerouac and Ginsberg respectively, but
Reaves wasn't
supposed to be Kerouac.
This question and
the one about the William Tell incident indicate again
that there
oughter be a faq.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:08:11 -0800
Reply-To: eatcarpaccio@geocities.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Anthony
<eatcarpaccio@GEOCITIES.COM>
Organization: Cad
Corporation
Subject: Re: Last Time I committed Suicide
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I saw the movie as well and enjoyed it a
lot. I thought that it
had a decent
amount of beat content and I especially like the way that
Cassady's battle
between the "American Dream" and "On The Road" was
portrayed, which
made sense because he was one of the only ones out of
those guys who
was actually married for an extended period of time. I
also liked how
there was ambiguity about his decision up until the last
few minutes when
he runs off. And you gotta love the
music.
Although Keanu seemed to represent the perpetually
drunk version of
Kerouac, I'm not
so sure that he did. It seems that for a
movie like
that, in support
of the beats, they wouldn't make Kerouac out to seem so
pathetic and
besides, the premise that he was writing a letter with
"Dear
Jack" at the top in the very beginning and very end seems not to
agree with this
"Harry" guy. If anyone has
more insight, or an answer
to the question,
I'd like to know. I'd also love to see
the letter that
the movie was
based upon.
-Anthony
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:23:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Diane be praised/double standard
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It seems to me
that this discussion has wandered far afield.
The truth
is that she is a
great poet. As a friend of mine said:
"Diane is a
very powerful, gifted, and disciplined writer."
Her sex life does
not diminish that. The fact that someone
would state
that she is not a
poet because she liked sex a lot, does say something
about that person
and the person's motives. And it is not
complimentary. This woman is a major poet and we demean her
by
continuing a
discussion of her sex life or calling her vulgar names. It
is what is called
a red herring as it distracts from the real issue, the
double
standard. I do believe that the discussion
of the double
standard for men
and women bears merit. I agree with
those who point
out that if she
were a man, then she would be thought of in an heroic
vein for her
honesty and sense of adventure.
If there is an
appropriate book of her poetry available, I would suggest
we start a
discussion of her poetry.
I like this brief
excerpt from "Alba, for a Dark Year"
the star, the
child, the light
returns
the darkness will
not win completely
nor will the
green dragon
entirely devour
the sun
what is this
softness that will not take no
for an answer
that penetrates
and masses
like love
in an empty
heart?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:00:45 -0800
Reply-To: eatcarpaccio@geocities.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Anthony
<eatcarpaccio@GEOCITIES.COM>
Organization: Cad
Corporation
Subject: Anti-Government
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm trying to
amass evidence that the beats were anti-government and I
was wondering if
anyone knew of any good quotes from Naked Lunch.
That would be
especially helpful, but as always, any input is good. My
main points of
evidence right now are the censorship trials and some
good quotes about
the police from OTR.
Thanks,
--Anthony
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:24:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Who is
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> learn it, or
vice versa. I, in fact, was one who
refuted that claim by
> I don't
remember whom, the claim that some people on this list, teens,
> college
students, etc., would never understand the Beat Movement because
> they did not
live during that time.
I'll agree but
take it a step further though and say that it is very
difficult
(without serious study and broad examination of popular culture)
for some of the
youngers to really truly _get_ how much of popular culture
today has been
shaped and influenced by the Beats and just how much of our
current (young)
American worldview owes to the Beats.
Ha!
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.22]
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:11:07 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: my tutorial with jack
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>i would really
like to hear what you think about some of this >stuff.
you
>could start
with the romantic vs. realist
stuff. all this beat >stuff
is
>pretty new to
me and everyone else in the class and i'd like to >bring
as much
>to it as
possible. thanks.
>
I seem to have,
during a point of weakness, lent my copy of OTR to
somebody else in
a different county. I better get that
back soon. But
I have a few
notes about some issues I was thinking about after reading
OTR.
There was the
issue of the "frontier" with Sal's desire to go West, just
as it has always
been in America, with Manifest Destiny and the Wild
West, and the
Gold Rush, etc. etc.
Romanticism holds
with Dean Moriarty for obvious reasons: he was the
embodiement of
Idealism, doing exactly what he wanted to do and no less,
achieving what is
only dreams to many others, like always Going,
visiting friends
whenever, etc. etc.
Realism in Sal,
with his internal struggle wanting to let himself Go and
be like Dean, but
at the end perhaps realizing that what should
sometimes be
grounded in Earth and not always flying away to somewhere
else.
As all the Beats
did, the characters in OTR rejected the Status Quo.
I wrote down
Transcendentalism as an important feature in this book;
find it.
Here is a list of
historically significant events of the times that
seemed to have
repurcussions in the book:
40's; WWII;
Hiroshima; Rosenbergs; Cold War; Containment; Red Scare;
Baby Boom;
Television; and importantly, American Dream/Ideal.
I wish I either
had my boook or more time this evening, but I'm sure
that many people
on this list have a much more thorough working
knowledge of OTR
and would be glad to fill you in on the details.
Christopher.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:18:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: beat buffet on sunday 1;30
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>You are
invited to my house sunday,in lawrence, for a buffet. david
>race will be
staying here at the beat hotel. i still have a pallet on
>the floor
that is very comfortable for any beat wayfarers. Lunch will
>be around
1:30. I am celebrating a good draft of
my short story, a
>friends
promotion to editor of cappers, that david will be in town. and
>my success as
the fattest woman in my aerobic swimming class.
> I truely
want to thank everyone for the wonderful help on my story. I
>feel it
finally is getting somewhere.
>so, crepes,
ham, cakes, pies, byob
>patricia
Oh how I wish I
could be there.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:19:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Diana Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I cannot for the
life of me imagine why people get hung-up about Diprima's
sexuality---not
that it might not be something to consider when reviewing
her poetry, but
really, it is silly to dwell upon it as something MORE
important than
the writing itself. She's a damned fine poet--and anyone with
an ounce of
critical sense should be able to see that. All this
defensiveness
about her status as a woman who was subordinated to the other
writers in the
movement is made by people who probably don't know how her
work as well as
they should. The poetry speaks for itself---why should
anybody have to
defend her after the fact anyway? We all know that women had
a harder time
pursuing literary or artistic careers back then--so what? A
lot of
post-modern criticism seems puerile and silly precisely because of
its tendency to
veer off into areas that, quite simply, are not relevant at
all. Besides--the
post-modern approach (in my opinion) is anathema to anyone
who really wants
to enjoy the writings of the Beats.
I dig Diprima's
poetry--and I am not really thinking of the author's gender
when I'm reading
something that speaks to me on a gut level. And, quite
frankly, I don't
allow my critical sense to get tangled up with gender
polemics that are
as boring as they are frustrating.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:57:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: something like a william tell style
execution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:18 PM
2/17/98 EST, you wrote:
>a friend
recently told me that wsb shot his wife in the head. it was written
>off as an
accident, and he wasn't even charged with manslaughter. this
>struck me as
a bit odd. can anyone bring a little
more light to the story
for
>me?
>
>There is no
straight story about this. One says the
Mexican authorities
investigated and
found it was accidental. It is my view
that it was
accidental. Others say Burroughs bought off the federales
and left the
Mexican
jurisdiction, before someone got wise. I
don't think there is a
final believable
version of this story, that you can count on.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:03:30 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: My top 4 poems:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>and ps-
Marie, I didn't type all of Brass Furnace Going out, I found it that
>way, although
wouldn't it have been a labor of love if I did transcribe the
>whole thing!
Although I actually may have with my lazy self, if it had been
>neccesary. My
top 4 poems:
>
>"Brass
furnace etc" Diane DiPrima
>"The
Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock" TS Eliot
>"Howl"
>"The
Lords" Jim Morrison
Stephanie,
I don't have Di
Prima's Selectred Poems. When I added the poem to my web
site I tried to
follow the format you used when you E-mailed it to the list.
Hope it's close.
As soon as you have the book let me know.
Check:
http://www.bookzen.com/books/0872860590_b.html
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:43:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: BACK TO LITERATURE -J. DIDION
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
Mike,
<BR>
<BR>All
goes to show how tastes differ. For Didion is boring, for
me she seems very
focused, sharp, minimalist. I like <I>The White
Album
</I>and <I>Play it as it Lays</I> although they now would
seem perhaps
somewhat stuck in
their 70's time frame. She writes wonderfully about
neruosis and
alienation, not particularly cheery stuff--rather in the vein
of Plath or
Sexton. To blame her for what you don't like about John Gregory
Dunne's work is
rather unfair, I think. Individually they write very
differently, and
the way screenplays are mauled through committee's--it's
very hard to tell
who to blame for what you do or don't like in a screenplay.
<P>JS
<P>mike
rice wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
TYPE=CITE>>
<BR>>I
read Slouching Toward Bethlehem and didn't like it. She wrote
a book
<BR>about
driving on the LA Freeway whose title I can't recall. She
writes
<BR>pretty
fair journalism, and she and her husband, John Gregory Dunne,
brother
<BR>of
Dominic, write horribly commercial screenplays like the Third Star
is Born
<BR>and Up
Close and Personal. Dunne wrote recently that The English
Patient was
<BR>a
descendant of Out of Africa. I disagree, it is the son of Lawrence
of
<BR>Arabia
<BR>and
David Lean.
<P>Mike
Rice
<P>Just
rememberd the book, Play It As It Lays. It was boring and
awful.</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:51:22 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Poetesses
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Mark,
Thanks for
posting the DiPrima fragment. There are
a number of interesting
woman writers
associated with the Beat label also who avoided being
labelled as
"skanks" by Paul Maher but who are also very rewarding. For me
those would
include Denise Levertov and Joanne Kyger and some lovely things
from Michael
McClure's ex-wife Joanne McClure. Lots of others, but those
are my current
favorites.
JS
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:39:50 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: (FWD) harlan ellison
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>
"H.S.B" <HSbork@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>>Well, I don't think that Harlan can be actually be considered a 'beat,'
...snip...
> >>-h-
harlan ellison
also wrote the beat influenced 'memos from purgatory' ,
and i think he
also had an early collection of short stories called
'gentleman
junkie', which, if memory serves was reprints from mens
magazine fiction,
and he did a col for the LA free press in the late
60s. he also does a lot of TV work. not a beat 'technically' (uh, oh,
here we go
again...) but he sure do write good
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:48:53 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: www.kerouacquarterly.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul A. Maher Jr.
wrote:
>
> Dig it...I
was booted from you precious realm but I found a crack in the wall.
>
> Les
critiques du veil art moderne ont ete surtout egares et cocufies par le
>
"moderne" meme. Effectivement rien na jamais vieilli plus vite et
plus mal
> que tout ce
qu'a un moment ils qualifierent de "moderne."
>
> Civil
discourse is here...alive and well. I'm glad all your boring rabble
> doesn't clog
up my e-mail. Take care all....have fun and live out your
> exciting
lives...Paul of TKQ.
i'm still kinda
new here and don wanna make no fuss with people, and i
don't seem to be
getting all the threads on many of these topics, but:
1. this guy is an asshole
2. his web page sucks
3. he makes a big deal about himself being, and
associating with
serious scholars,
but he lets the sampas family decide for him who's a
seroius scholar
4. if he's so into the beats why does he need
grant money to situate
his zine at a
college so its serious scholarship can continue. the
point i'm making
is this: it seems to be a labor of a laborious ego, not
a labor of love.
5. he's an asshole
tkc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:24:31 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joan Vollmer
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: something like a william tell style
execution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
mike rice wrote:
> Others say Burroughs bought off the federales
and left the
> Mexican
jurisdiction, before someone got wise.
=== Haven't heard
that one. WSB was so broke during this period it's
doubtful he had
the cash to bribe the federales *and* leave the country.
He was constantly
nickel-and-dime-ing Ginsberg to death...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to
Nelson Pinedo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:06:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Whitman scholars?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Anybody have any
references for me? I'm looking for
comments either positive
or negative by
Walt Whitman scholars on the work of AG.
I'd appreciate back
channel tips if
you've got 'em.
Thanks,
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:09:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Last Time I committed Suicide
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I didnt realize
that Keanu Reeves depicted Kerouac in LTICS. What makes
you think this,
esp since his name wasnt Jack in the movie, I dont think?
On Tue, 17 Feb
1998 Zucchini4@AOL.COM wrote:
> Sorry if
this was discussed already, but...
>
> Gotta love
that title. And letters that went between Neal Cassady and Jack
> Kerouac now
presented as drama- very veyr interesting! So my friend and I
> decide to
rent this video, but it turns out the ever vomitous Keanu Reeves
> (rememeber
him? the man who ruined "my own private idaho"?) plays Kerouac!! Is
> this for
real? Has anyone seen the movie? Has anyone read the script/seen
> another
production (if there was any other production, stage etc)?
>
> Thank you.
>
> --Stephanie
>
> and ps-
Marie, I didn't type all of Brass Furnace Going out, I found it that
> way,
although wouldn't it have been a labor of love if I did transcribe the
> whole thing!
Although I actually may have with my lazy self, if it had been
> neccesary.
My top 4 poems:
>
> "Brass
furnace etc" Diane DiPrima
> "The
Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock" TS Eliot
>
"Howl"
> "The
Lords" Jim Morrison
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:34:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JULIANA PABON <julie36@BU.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in light of all
the fussing about diane, i picked up _Women of the Beat
Generation_...and,
well, y'all should take a look.
"In many
ways women of the Beat were cut from the same cloth as the men:
fearless, angry,
high risk, too smart, restless, highly irregular. They
took chances,
made mistakes, made poetry, made love, made
history. Women
of the Beat
weren't afraid to get dirty. They were
compassionate,
careless,
charismatic, marching to a different drummer, out of step.
Muses who birthed
a poetry so raw and new and full of power that it
changed the
world. Writers whose words weave spells,
whose stories bind,
whose vision
blinds. Artists, for whom curing the
disease of art kills."
-Brenda Knight
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:50:28 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: Who is
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Christopher Moore
wrote:
>
> I teach English on the high school level and
one of my
> >favorite
elective courses is devoted to the writings of the Beats. My
>
>students--none of whom were born before 1980--had no problem
>
understanding
> >the
concept--of course, they were allowed to see videos, press
> clippings,
> >photos
and to hear recordings from that period. So what then is
> Hornberger's
> >or
Moore's problem?
> >
> >Sounds
like a bad case of cultural chauvinism to me.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Perchuk
> >
>
> I'd like to
say that it was *not* I who was saying that one had to be of
> age during a
lit. or art or cultural movement to understand it and to
> learn it, or
vice versa. I, in fact, was one who refuted
that claim by
> I don't
remember whom, the claim that some people on this list, teens,
> college
students, etc., would never understand the Beat Movement because
> they did not
live during that time.
> I totally
agree with you, J. Perchuk, in what you said about
> appreciation
and increasing comprehension of a past culture.
I was
> saying how
any literature movement is so essential to today, or any
> cultural
movement, because it has eternal significance on the human
> condition,
blahdy blah blah.
> Thanks for
reinforcing and reiterating my point. It
is very essential.
>
> Christopher
Moore.
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
WOW--when did I
say you had to experience a generation to know it? Does
E-mail
automatically change my words in transmission or what?
What I DID SAY -
was could the "young non-beat generation" please quit
adding
characters, sounds and never will be beat literature into the
category of Beat
(which most scholars would say was primarily a
literature
movement, now more interupted as a social movement)---- at
the same time I'm
glad I caused a little spark out there...but please
try to read it
right. Thanks
Old Beat Patrick
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:59:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Apology to Beat-L
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To members of the
Beat-L,
I apologize to
those who have taken grave offense to comments discerned
malicious or offensive
or otherwise by me. Though my nature is savagely
opinionated, it
is nonetheless passionate and can be construed wrongly by
those select
members of the Beat-L who have less than tolerable natures for
my excesses. I do
this out of truth and not to be taken back into the folds
of the Beat-L. It
is best I stay out to build on positive things in my
research for book
and quarterly and correct those positive qualities in my
self which are so
gravely lacking. Best to all, Paul Maher, Jr. of TKQ.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:57:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mr Mojo Risin <KrwlnKgSnk@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: My top 4 poems:
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'm glad to hear
about jim morrison as a good poet. which he really was. i've
been a huge
morrison fan(obviously through the best band- the doors) alot
longer than a
'beat literature fan'. I was wondering if you consider it(jim's
poetry) to be
'beat'. I do know that he read 'on the road' a couple times and
was good friends
with Michael McClure.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
LUNCH...(was Re: Anti-Government)
Cc:
eatcarpaccio@geocities.com
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34EA6AF0.6B1CAE4C@geocities.com>
References:
Anthony email
addressed
eatcarpaccio@geocities.com
writes:
^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I'm trying to
amass evidence that the beats were anti-government and I
>was wondering
if anyone knew of any good quotes from Naked Lunch.
peoples knows better carpaccio as
Lunch not as a venetian painter...
NAKED LUNCH----------------------.
EAT
|
CARPACCIO--------------arrigo cipriani at
harry's bar
IT'S in venice,italy give u a
menu
SOMETHING with carpaccio, raw meat sliced.
LIKE
A CRYPTIC eat meat is the message?
MESSAGE \ /
war
IM' a vegetarian (& pacifist... i hope.)
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:55:54 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Wed, 18
Feb 1998 22:48:14...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Wed, 18
Feb 1998 22:48:14
+0100 with subject
"LUNCH...(was
Re: Anti-Government)" has been successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (255
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:09:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diana Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/18/98 6:11:04 AM, you wrote:
>We all know
that women had
>a harder time
pursuing literary or artistic careers back then
back then? ha!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.22]
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:37:22 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: NPR
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Just a note:
Did anyone listen
to National Public Radio this evening (1555 PDT)?
There were five
minutes devoted to Diane DiPrima. I
found it quite
nice. They had an English Professor from some
school in the midwest (I
think) speak
briefly about her, her Beat nature, etc., and then two of
her poems were
read, one about her Grandfather, and another about...
shoot, I don't
remember off the top of my head right now.
Sort of
interesting.
Christopher.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:45:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In a message
dated 2/18/98 6:11:04 AM, you wrote:
>
>>We all
know that women had
>>a harder
time pursuing literary or artistic careers back then
>
>
>back
then? ha!
Thought those
following this thread would enjoy knowing that NPR broadcast
a 10 minute
segment on DiPrima today. Summarized her
career from New York
with the Beats in
the 50s, San Francisco in the 60s and 70s, and to the
present. Read two of her poems. It was great.
Preston
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
tjneuman@joust.rs.itd.umich.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:16:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tracy J Neumann
<tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: unsubscribe beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ideleted the info
on how to unsubscribe--please take me off!! Sorry to
send this to
everyone!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:13:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Diane Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Date: Wed, 18
Feb 1998 23:55:08
>To:
Sockmunkie@AOL.COM
>From: Jeffrey
Perchuk <legacy@admin.con2.com>
>Subject:
Diane Diprima
>
>Yes, I wrote
that (about Diprima having a tough time because of her
gender)--so what
of it? Or are you upset that I didn't launch an long
jeremaid about
how unfair it was--? If that's what you're looking for, then
I can't help you.
What's past is past--and if Diprima had obstacles to
overcome--well,
then it probably made her a better poet. If you REALLY have
something to
say--then gender problems notwithstanding--you'll say it.
Whatever else
there is in Diprima's writings--there's none of the whining,
self-referntial
tripe that passes for "feminist" poetry nowadays. Which is
why it's so
BORING to read. If Diprima had confined herself to that
alone--she
wouldn't be worth my attention. So what's yer gripe, then?
>
>
>I like
discussing LITERATURE---not gender polemics. Maybe it's because I'm
44 years old and
consider that kind of thing just a little.....tedious. If
you want to talk
about literature, I can talk until the cows come home.
Everything else
is just.....nonsense. But then--that's not a terribly
post-modern point
of view--is it now?
>
>Ho-hum.
>
>
> J.
Perchuk
>
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:03:57 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Avalokitesvara's B-Day Today
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Today is
Avalokitesvara's birthday (the 19th).
Kerouac wrote in
SoD
O Lord
Avalokitesvara
Emptiness without
end
Bless all living
& dying
things
In the endless
past
In the endless
present
In the endless
future
amen
He/She is also
known as Kuan Yin (pronounced gwan een) the Goddess of mercy
How they know her
birthday I sure don't know.
I have a cool
picture of her riding a dragon if anyone wants to see it.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:41:33 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: before dawn at the new beat-hotel
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
coffee sipping
listening to my
clothes
spinning and
pounding towards
dryness
gathering another
load
for the wash
listening to the
walls
and floors
sipping coffee
smoking
cigarettes
another morning
breaking open
in lawrence on
the prairie.
david rhaesa
in lawrence
kansas
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.27]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:31:51 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane Diprima/feminism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"everybody's
talkin' 'bout baghism shagism ragism tagism,
ism ism
ism....all we are saying...is give peace a
chance..."
-john lennon
-julian
"The Believer is happy, the Doubter is
wise"
-Hungarian
Proverb
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.27]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:34:11 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: T.
S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i was wondering if anyone knew where i could
get the text to the
"prufuck"
(sp?) poem, i have been told it's the greatest thing since
sliced bread...
-julian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.27]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:49:07 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: rhetoric and truth
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>
thought you guys
would enjoy this...i know it's long, but
it's well worth
the read, i assure you...there's even a
quote from
buroughs though i wonder if its the same one we
hold dear to our
hearts....
-julian
>
>RHETORIC AND
TRUTH
>by
>Robert Wade
Kenny
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Wade Kenny
>Department of
Communication
>University of
Dayton
>300 College
Park
>Dayton, OH
45469-1410
>
>
>
>
>
>Imagine a
mute family who juggle balls to communicate.
The son
>studies
Russel and Frege, and he's invited here, to our
Crisis in
>Criteria
conference. Introduced as a speaker on What can
we say about
>truth the
young scholar appears, opens his briefcase, and
furiously
>juggles seven
multi-colored balls, while his translator
reads, "X
over
>Y cubed over
the square root of T_." It takes about three
minutes and
>when it's
over, postmodernists present spring to their
feet with
>applause,
because they think they have found a new
champion. After
>all, what
could caricature the capacity, the very limit
of symbolicity
>more forcefully
than a juggling philosopher; how better
mock its
>limited range
in referencing anything other than itself.
Could truth
>appear in
juggling ellipses? Ridiculous! It's almost
as absurd as
>thinking that
you could convey Truth by blowing air
through a piece
of
>meat, which,
ironically, is what I am doing right
now.
> But is it
ridiculous? I'll address that question
later
in my
> delivery,
after I fulfill my promise to situate rhetoric
historically
> in relation
to the issue of relativism and criteria. The
status and
> focus of
rhetoric as a discipline has been largely
determined by
> Aristotle's
famous pronouncement that it is the
counterpart to
> dialectic,
and that one learns it to develop the
"available
means of
> persuasion". If you agree with Aristotle that the road
to truth is
> a
dialectical one, then you will probably
see rhetoric
as marginal
> to this
symposium's issues, or perhaps instrumental in
developing the
> crisis which
the symposium addresses. In the best case,
a wise
> statesman,
having a capacity for dialectic and rhetoric,
finds the
> royal road
to the ethical, the good, and the true via
the former,
> then
persuades his followers to take this route with
him, through the
> latter. In the worst case, a rogue, unschooled in
dialectic but
> talented at
rhetoric, can lead an audience away from the
truth.
>The partition
between philosophy and rhetoric, as Plato
and later
>Aristotle
developed it, was not, however, always so clear
for the
>Greeks. Early Sophists who both practiced and gave
instruction in
>the art of
rhetoric, also disposed on issues
philosophical.
Guided by
>the
understanding that utterances are always contingent,
the Sophists
>were also
well-aware that the impact of such utterances
was largely
>the result of
the speaker's eloquence. Thus, whether an
early Sophist
>discoursed on
rhetoric, pedagogy, historiography, or
epistemology he
>respected the
fact that the cornerstone of his argument
was not the
>reality to
which his words gave reference but rather the
argument
>itself. This, of course, makes meaningful the famous
Protagoran
>aphorism,
"Strengthen the weak argument, and weaken the
strong."
>Perhaps the
best philosophical illustration we have of
this
>Sophistical
technique is Gorgias's treatise on
Being/Non-Being. In
>what remains
of this text, so firmly connected with
TRUTH, we see the
>markings of a
deconstructive project. The Sophists
seem
to grasp that
>language
plays games with its user - that it is, as
Burroughs tells
>us, "a
virus from outerspace." That
opinion allowed
Gorgias and his
>peers a
certain freedom, so that while early philosophers
fished for
>the hidden
truth submerged within the sea of language,
Sophists were
>surfboarding
on the waves.
> At any event
rhetoric was saddled with a two-thousand
year tradition,
> in which it
sees itself through a philosopher's eyes,
until this
> century,
when it experienced two major turning points.
The first,
> traceable to
the writing of I.A. Richards, rejects the
notion that
> rhetoric
should be the study of the available means of
persuasion.
> Instead,
according to Richards, rhetoric should be, "the
study of
>
misunderstanding and its remedies."
Richards was
opposed to lofty
> speech: he
wanted to privilege clear speaking - language
which was
> understood
by this listener on this occasion.
Rhetoricians who
> follow the
tradition he has established investigate
discourse to
> determine
how effectively it has carried its meaning
between the
> sender and
the receiver.
>An even more
radical turn for rhetoric has transpired
over the past
>fifty years
and is originally situated in the writings of
Kenneth
>Burke. Burke argues convincingly that confederacy is
but
partially
>realized
through the Aristotelian rhetoric of persuasion.
He
>similarly
disclaims against Richard's rhetoric of
understanding.
>People agree
on what should be done, Burke argues, when
they agree on
>the named
status of things. Burke says, "To
call a man a
murderer, is
>to propose a
hanging." And equally: To call a
man a
football is to
>propose a
kicking. To call a man a balloon is to propose
a pricking.
>To call a man
glue is to propose a sticking. According to
Burke,
>everything
comes to us and changes before us as a result
of the
>transformations
of language, attributions of substance -
what Burke
>refers to as
identification. Consequent to this idea,
rhetoricians
>find
themselves reconsidering the wisdom of their
Sophistical
>predecessors,
particularly around the issue of the logos.
We ask
>ourselves, as
does the philosopher, what is the relation
between being
>and language.
Anecdotally I say that Heidegger sought
Being only to
>find
language, whereas Burke sought language only to find
Being. And
>when one
searches either of these great thinkers
thoroughly, I
believe
>she will
eventually find the other.
> As a student
of Kenneth Burke, I find myself most
interested in an
> ontological
rhetoric. Approaching the question of
TRUTH
from this
> perspective,
it seems I would be forced to draw out an
argument which
> reduces
truth to a simplistic "true for you, but not for
me",
>
argument. That just isn't the case.
TRUTH, however,
like many words
> carries a
variety of hats. I have little time, so
I
would like to
> describe but
three of them, all very important. I
will
call them the
> Elevations
of the TRUTH.
>
>ELEVATION
ONE:
>
> Rhetoric has
always been a productive art, concerned
with binding
> people's
motives. Even a minister who extols to
his
flock about
> barn-raising
can measure the outcome of his text in
terms of number
> of barns
raised. Material conditions around and
within
our material
> bodies hold
us accountable to the texts we deliver.
If
I tell you
> it's a
Portabello mushroom and it isn't, you will die no
matter how
> effective my
words might be. As Heidegger says,
"entities
can smash
> in upon us
and destroy us," and this is because entities
transcend
> language. It
is our historical task to map language onto
nature in
> some
adequate sense, that we might survive.
This
mapping of
language
> onto nature
is Being, or as a good friend would claim,
the logos.
> Material
reality, regardless the convoluted manner that
humanity
> relates to
it, is coded, and our survival depends upon
successful
> coding and
recoding of that reality. There is no
pure
relativism
> here, rather
there is the requirement for adequacy of
text in a
> recalcitrant
world, a world which, although it exists as
a language
> is grounded
in a beyond language, in something that
bites back.
>The code for
material existence is layered in terms of
its
>universality
- there are differences between Eskimos and
Tahitians,
>but there are
also similarities. And their differences
are in many
>cases quite
similar. In these simple cultures, bound
much more
>rigorously to
their specific material conditions, we see
the
>metabiological
significance of world, a phenomenon which
is not
>random, but
rather relatively precise. Western
culture
is much more
>complex and
far more heavily involved in the play of
possibilities
>engendered by
technology and technique - this has allowed
and perhaps
>even
necessitated a relativistic and deconstructive
project -- for
our
>culture may
require significant levels of fragmentation
in order to
>endure.
> Thus, TRUTH
can be described as an adequate
map-of-the-world,
which
> deals with
the consequentiality of the extant status of
whatever it
> is that
kicks back, that is "out there" that we have
situated this
> world-map
upon. Such a description allows us to identify
the FALSE as
> that which
is not adequate, but does not pinpoint an
absolute truth.
>
>Admittedly,
such world-maps lack the absolute TRUTH
status that we
>might think
we are seeking, for it's possible that I
could eat this
>Portabello
mushroom and survive, or that a spike could go
through my
>head and I
would live (Phinneas Gage for example).
Are
we only
>speaking of
probabilities here when we use this term
TRUTH? Well then
>why use it?
> The world is
governed by contingency, which essentially
means that we
> don't know
what will happen next. I could die
before
finishing this
> talk. The roof could collapse. You could leave. But
if a society
> acknowledged
absolute contingency, what could you get
done. The
> attribution
of truth where there is only likelihood
assuages the
> community,
allows them to get along in an everyday way.
Much of the
> time you
don't want to look too closely at what might
happen. Thus
> we have one
characterization of TRUTH - as a term which
praises and
> even
elevates the adequacy of a text describing our
relationship to
> the world
and blames a text which does the opposite - an
elevation
> which might
be useful in that it allows us to dwell with
confidence
> in realms
which are uncertain. Praise and blame
are, I
should add,
> cornerstones
of the rhetorical art.
>ELEVATION
TWO:
> Because we
have such a rough and ready notion of the
TRUTH, many of
> us, and most
of us much of the time, live each day the
way everybody
> else does,
just sort of on-automatic, with no sense of
how strange it
> is to be a
human and the responsibility that goes with
it. But once
> in a while,
for some of us more often than others, we
come upon a
> situation
which we can't handle in an everyday way - one
for which
> there is no
stock form of response. These situations
can be
> terrifying,
for they expose to us the fundamental manner
that we are
> in the world
- they show us that all the ready-made
reactions which
> we had up to
this point were equally without guarantee
and, though
> they as
often as not worked, in fact were also
tranquilizing us
> against the
absolute contingency of existence. At
such
moments when
> a choice
must be made that has not come before us, we
feel as if we
> have lost
the TRUTH that I have described just above.
But it is
> probably the
case that we have found another TRUTH, even
more
> profound.
>The first
part of this second elevation of the TRUTH is
the
>recognition
of uncertainty and doubt -- the very
impossibility of
>certain
knowledge about the world as it is disclosed.
One's known
>world
collapses: the loved one leaves, or dies.
The
building is
>destroyed in
an explosion. And these breaks in the
world
are not
>experienced
as mere moments of understanding, but are
ontologically
>driven. Elsewhere I refer to them as existential
amputations, because
>I really am
the world I have built around me and I feel
its break as a
>break in
me. Kenneth Burke says, for example
after the
death of his
>wife that he
feels as if he outlived both her and
himself. To be out
>there, in the
realm of the nothing, is to be exposed to
the horror
>which is also
and everywhere a part of existence - an
existential
>horror for
humans, who at the same time are able to make
good against
>it. From this horror, which is itself a truth,
comes the
commitment,
>which is an
even greater truth, for it is a truth of
responsibility.
>It is a truth
of the will. A great moment in the
development of
each
>of us, is the
moment when we see the absolute collapse of
everything
>we hold dear,
and yet commit to come back, to rebuild, to
make the
>world
again. This is what Camus means when he
says "We
must imagine
>Sisyphus as
happy." What a profound
statement. It has
literally
>brought me to
tears on more than one occasion in my life,
because it
>has reminded
me of a fundamental charge that existence
has given me -
>a charge to
make the world, else there will not be a
world. What more
>profound
responsibility, and at the same time more
profound honor
>could be
given to an entity than this. Not that
it finds
the world,
>but that it
makes it. And how does it make this
world?
Through
>co-being with
others, in language that generates this
co-world.
> A critical
responsibility of rhetoric is to patch these
holes in
> Being, a
necessary condition for collective human life -
for we need
> everyday and
automatic responses not only to get along
with each
> other, but
even to find each other.
>And so there
is an ongoing rhetorical project within
which we all
>engage,
patching the walls of our social world with
rhetorical
cement,
>sometimes in
an automatic way, as when we make jokes
about the Hale
>Bop suicides
in order to keep that issue from
fundamentally
surfacing,
>but also
sometimes in a manner of fundamental commitment
to return
>from the
abyss, a notion which a Jungian would claim,
underwrites the
>vast majority
of our journeying mythology. Producing
discursive
>confidence
where no certainty actually exists is not a
sign of human
>weakness - it
is a strength. When it occurs in an
everyday way, it
>can be
problematic, but it is also a fundamental
condition for the
>paradoxically
perverse-joy which is collective life.
This is the
>first
elevation of truth. Then, when it occurs
because
one has made a
>commitment to
be in the world by making that world even
in the face of
>the absurdity
of such a project, it is a triumph of the
will, and this
>is, of
course, the second elevation. If postmodernism
glories in its
>parasitic
relationship with these world-making projects,
simply
>because it
deliberately smashes holes into the walls, or
if it studies
>the walls and
assumes that it is the primary source of
the damage,
>then it is a
naive project. The holes come anyway,
whether we wish
>them to or
not. Postmodernism and deconstructionism
pose
no genuine
>or original
threat to culture. They are both luxuries, to
some extent
>excesses in
the intellectual arena as they are in the
public realm. At
>the same
time, they are useful checkpoints for a culture
which is
>materially
well-situated and perhaps a little too
self-assured.
> Thus far I
have argued that we can overcome the
theoretically
> crippling
impact of postmodern relativism by returning
to the
> philosophy
from which such misguided notions emerge.
There we will
> discover
that there may be no true way to live,
nevertheless all
> cultures and
persons must strive for a relation between
the way they
> live and the
material limits in which they are situated.
>
>Elevation
three:
> The third
elevation of truth that I would like to
describe also
finds
> a
comfortable home in rhetoric for it begins with the
notion that it
> cannot be
told, but it can be shown. This is much
the
case in music.
> I cannot tell you Beethoven's Ninth symphony,
but I can
show you the
>
symphony. This is one of the ways that
music is more
profound than
> language,
because it so forcefully resists any
deliberate or
> indeliberate
attempt to transform it into an object of
cognition.
> Instead it
falls within the realm of the aesthetic and
is thus one
> step closer
to the fullness of Being, which is the third
elevation of
> the truth I
wish to discuss. The Being who inquires
into Being is of
> course the
human Being. The sculpture of the
monkey
playing Hamlet
> with the
skull, grandly illustrates the triumph and at
the same time
> absurdity of
this, that he seeks to do the unavailable -
seeks to
> think
Being. And yet, might not this seeking
be an even
greater
> triumph than
the sought? Heidegger once said, "We have
not yet begun
> to think,
least of all myself." And in the
same text,
he chastises
> those who
would "think" by engaging in a process of
classification
> and somehow
assuming that a completed list meant that a
thinking had
> occurred. It's certainly not the way Einstein thought.
In the
> Ghiselin
book, he claims that he thought with his
stomach, a
process
> much more
subtle and beyond the manipulation of symbols.
It is the
> beauty of
music that reveals its TRUTH. We are
compelled by its
> beauty, we
surrender to its beauty. It is a beauty
we
cannot break
> into pieces,
dissect and destroy. Rhetoric is also
capable of this
> achievement
because it is, in part, the eloquent
articulation of a
>
language. A language that would show the
TRUTH by
revealing Being.
> But can we
approach this notion of the TRUTH in any
descriptive
> sense? Again borrowing from the primary notions of
existentialism
> and a
rhetoric which is co-written into it, I think it's
possible.
> Here is my
dream. I am in my high school gymnasium
and
I suddenly
> float up
from the floor and across the gym. About
fifteen feet in
> the air I reach the opposite wall, where there is a
wooden
ledge. I
> run my hand
along it and find, to my surprise, chalk
dust. Several
> things make
this dream interesting to me. First, is
the
obvious fact
> that, in my
dream I am my body in the gym, but in order
for me to
> have that
dream I would have to be creating both my
dream body and
> the dream
gym. Also, in order to be surprised when
I
found the chalk
> dust on the
ledge, I would have to have put the chalk
dust there, and
> I would have
to hide from my dream self the fact that I
put it there.
> In my dream, I create a self and a world, and
I feel as
if I am
> totally
separate from that world, as a subject in it.
This is very
> similar to
what Existentialists think life is like.
If
you look at
> the cube
before you, for example you'll see three
dimensionality.
> And yet how
does that 3d get there? You make it.
You've been
> trained to
make it. It is your logos. Yet you
experience it as
if
> it's
happening out there, apart from you. That part of
the bigger you
> is out in
the world, co-involved with the production of
the world
> that you
experience and you don't even feel as if it's
part of you.
> Apparently,
we are among things, yet feel as if we stand
out separate
> as an object
beside other objects.
>This part of
us which is among things transcends our ego,
hence
>Sartre's text
"The Transcendence of the Ego".
So part of
us is out
>there,
feeling as if it does not belong to us at all.
We're alienated
>from it,
alienated from the fullness of what we are, and,
if so, the
>first step in
obtaining any kind of experience of TRUTH
would be the
>experience of
the fullness of my own Being, which would
at least
>involve the
breaking down of the barrier between the ego
and the
>transcendent
ego. But then there is a second
step. For
clearly the
>Necker Cube
is not solely produced by the transcendent
ego. Rather
>the
transcendent ego seems to engage in a dance with a
partner that
>surpasses any
part of the individual person. You don't
see Necker
>cubes
everywhere. What is it that the Transcendent
ego
dances with?
>I suspect
that, whenever we break down the walls which
separate us
>from our own
transcendence, we find ourselves immediately
and
>intimately in
contact with the answer.
> To describe
that experience is always a failed project,
because one
> cannot
commit it to the realm of language in that sense.
But there's
> nothing
unusual in that, for whenever language attempts
to articulate
> Being it
arises as both a failure and a success. If my
father is in
> surgery and
the doctor appears afterward, I await in a
state of
> Being. I see the doctor and I say, "Is he
okay?"
"Who?" "My father,
> is he
okay?" "He just had a triple bypass.
How could he
be okay?"
> "Well,
I mean is he going to live?" "Do you mean till
next week?"
>
"No. I mean will he recover from
this surgery?" "Well,
perhaps from
> this
surgery." "Do you mean he hasn't been completely
cured?"
"How
> could he be
completely cured. We just finished
surgery
five minutes
> ago."
In such an imaginary world the doctor can
continually show
the
> inadequacy
of the son's questions. But the son can
equally continue
> to fashion
the question. This is because the
question
does not find
> its origins
in the son's language. It finds its
origins
in the son's
> Being. His condition of Being in the world. This is
his truth. A
> truth which
calls him, and a truth which he is destined
to betray at
> every turn,
in both his language and his experience.
Burke terms
> this
condition linguistically a terministic screen.
Every word both
> reflects and
deflects the reality it addresses.
Nevertheless, in
the
> call of
Being, the Truth of Being reveals itself as the
continual
>
dissatisfaction with what exists and the yearning to go
beyond it.
> To speak the
TRUTH of Being as I described it above is
always a
> failed
project but in the attempt and in the return for
the
> subsequent
attempt there is the continuing return to the
condition of
> being, which
is the Truth itself. When I think of the
great
>
philosophers, it matters little to me what they say.
Their saying is
> a path I
follow to try to trace their Being, much as I
stand before
> one of
Monet's cathedrals and try to return to the Being
which made
> the painting
come to life. And I think that each of
these
> philosophers
used the process of their writing to place
them in the
> Truth of
Being, regardless regardless whether
they
claimed they had
> identified
it. In that sense, the history of
philosophy
is never a
> history of
demonstrated truths, but a narrative of
truths that have
> been lived,
and the philosopher's task is to trace
through the
> failings in
each writer's language, to the truth of
Being which the
> text has
betrayed. Philosophy, like music, is true
not
because of
> the
knowledge that it produces, but because of the
beauty that it
> produces in
its attempt to sing Being, as did
Parmenides. In this
> dimension,
philosophy has always been, when at its best
rhetorical.
>When we
inquire into Truth, or into our very self, and
the two
>questions are
not so far apart, we see how language as
our instrument
>plays with
us. But if we learn to play with
language
instead. If we
>learn to surf
instead of fish. Then we may find that
we
are looking
>up more than
we are looking down. And up is the
direction of the
>answer.
>
>Thankyou
>
"The Believer is happy, the Doubter is
wise"
-Hungarian
Proverb
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[207.79.35.27]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:08:02 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julian Ruck
<julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Gia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i was wondering if anyone saw the hbo special
on "gia"...the late 70s,
>early 80s
model...?
>they read
some of her poetry, and depicted much of her life...she's
>probably, no,
she IS the most beat model i've ever heard of...
>-julian
>
>ps, also, in
the way of movies...did anyone see 'the last temptation of
>christ'?
>
>i think it's
shock factor alone had a beat feel to it...that, and david
>bowie was in
it...*g*
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:59:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Kerouac CDs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Listening to the
Kerouac CDs is like meeting him again for the first
time. It's like
finding a new friend. He wrote his stuff to be spoken
and what better
way to hear it than through his own voice. The same for
Ginsberg.
I also recommend
the CD- Kicks, Joy Darkness by Ryko Disc. Came out last
year. It's
performers and artists- Patti Smith, Lee Ranaldo, Richard
Hell, etc....
Reading/performing Kerouac material. Startling, exciting
way to hear how
others connect with the Kerouac- and to see how he
speaks to the
90's (for the Gen-X'ers, etc who want to connect).
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:13:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: goodbye
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
beat-lers
goodbye - i find
that i am no longer enraptured by the bickering nd
arguing, fighting
and swaering - i will miss some of the eople, but i
assume i will
contuniue to talk to them off list. so
adios
my freinds
derek
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:47:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Perchuk
wrote:
>
> What's past
is past--and if Diprima had obstacles to
>
overcome--well, then it probably made her a better poet. If you REALLY have
> something to
say--then gender problems notwithstanding--you'll say it.
> Whatever
else there is in Diprima's writings--there's none of the whining,
>
self-referntial tripe that passes for "feminist" poetry nowadays.
Which is
> why it's so
BORING to read. If Diprima had confined herself to that
> alone--she
wouldn't be worth my attention. So what's yer gripe, then?
> >
> >
> >I like
discussing LITERATURE---not gender polemics. Maybe it's because I'm
> 44 years old
and consider that kind of thing just a little.....tedious. If
> you want to
talk about literature, I can talk until the cows come home.
> Everything
else is just.....nonsense. But then--that's not a terribly
> post-modern
point of view--is it now?
> >
> >Ho-hum.
> >
> >
> > J.
Perchuk
gosh, it is good
to see such a great post. Interesting,
confined to
literature,
insightful. 44 and can talk literature ,
and none of that
boring whiney
antifemenist crap you hear.
i think it is
silly to think that chauvinism, racism, anti-type wars, or
any kind of knee
jerk thinking doesn't affect which voices are published
or encouraged.
The exchange of views and perspective become limited by
that approach.
but i also look at labels like major and minor as
limiting.
One of the
attractions i feel for beat literature and poetry is their
use of language
to liberate.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:09:01 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: goodbye
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'll miss you
here, derek, as i stay and do the work for the angels.
we came on this
list simultaneously with ron.
that leaves me
mc
not goin' any
wheres
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
> beat-lers
> goodbye - i
find that i am no longer enraptured by the bickering nd
> arguing,
fighting and swaering - i will miss some of the eople, but i
> assume i
will contuniue to talk to them off list. so
> adios
> my freinds
> derek
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
> derek
beaulieu
> c/o house
press
> apt.502 728
3rd ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
>
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
> phone
(403)270-4440
> LOOK FOR :
house press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
> edition
chapbook!
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:15:57 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DJ Happy Harry Hard-On
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization: No
One's Driving
Subject: Re: Avalokitesvara's B-Day Today
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> Today is
Avalokitesvara's birthday (the 19th).
>
> Kerouac
wrote in SoD
>
> O Lord
Avalokitesvara
> Emptiness
without end
> Bless all
living & dying
> things
> In the
endless past
> In the
endless present
> In the
endless future
> amen
>
> He/She is
also known as Kuan Yin (pronounced gwan een) the Goddess of mercy
>
> How they
know her birthday I sure don't know.
>
> I have a
cool picture of her riding a dragon if anyone wants to see it.
Thanks for
mentioning this. I would actually like
to see it.
--Thomas
> L'important
c'est pas la chute, c'est la terrissage
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:23:20 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: the early mc poetry.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
rinaldo, i do not
mind the fragments as i know and feel the love you put
into sending
them.
thankyou
it's been a very
hard month, and you gave me a gift today. a reminder of
what i can do,
who i am
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie says:
> >i wrote
my first pome the day that allen ginsberg died, and
> >have not
stopped since.
>
> Two poems
fragmented of Marie Countryman's poetry:
>
> ---
> to allen
wherever he may be
> ...
> today as i
mourn your death,
> allen
ginsberg,
> i also
celebrate your birth.
> fare the
well.
> mc
> (1)
> ---
> (1) there's
no date but Sun, 6 Apr 1997
>
> ---
> (2)
> ...
> no other
fruit
> has ever
been sweeter
> than the
pears
> of my
writing tree.
> mc (sunday,
april 13,)
> ---
>
> (2)poem
written on Sun, 13 Apr 1997
> ---
>
> Marie, i
hope i do not have shattered yr poems snipping
> yr words if
this occours i deeply apologies - yr statement concerning
> the dawn of
yr poetry is biographical correct - but i think
> u are always
walkin thru aisles walls of dreams looking for
> real
word/flowers.
>
> cari saluti
a tutti,
> Rinaldo.
> --------
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Hungarian Proverb
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<19980219123151.25383.qmail@hotmail.com>
References:
julian says:
>"The
Believer is happy, the Doubter is wise"
>-Hungarian
Proverb
julian,
im' of ancestral
hungarian origins but for
sure never heard
of this proverb mybe in the
transylvanian
woods its' worth to be happy
than wise,
saluti, Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:41:35 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: NPR & Di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i wish i had
tuned in. as my writing reflects, i believe the same goal of not
separating
private/public life. and aren't we all reaching for the goal of
"creating a
rich inner
life" and
"poetry being a means of awakening the imagination."?
mc
Also interesting
were the comments about her not seperating her public and
private life in
her writings and having a goal of "creating a rich inner
life" and
"poetry being a means of awakening the imagination."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:46:51 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: diprima/waterrow bks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i accidenntally
deleted post that named latest poetry book by diprima;
and i havn't
received an answer from waterrow books re: their stock of
diprima.
i can't use any
other online book sellers as i don't have a credit card,
which complicates
this part of my life but is a boon to the rest.
i can have it
special ordered in town, am wondering if any one has a
list of her
poetry as well as the latest.
thanks,
mc
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
early mc poetry.
Cc:
Bcc:
country@SOVER.NET
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802171605.LAA11306@pike.sover.net>
References:
<e68db87a.34e9371d@aol.com>
marie says:
>i wrote my
first pome the day that allen ginsberg died, and
>have not
stopped since.
Two poems
fragmented of Marie Countryman's poetry:
---
to allen wherever
he may be
...
today as i mourn
your death,
allen ginsberg,
i also celebrate
your birth.
fare the well.
mc
(1)
---
(1) there's no
date but Sun, 6 Apr 1997
---
(2)
...
no other fruit
has ever been
sweeter
than the pears
of my writing
tree.
mc (sunday, april
13,)
---
(2)poem written
on Sun, 13 Apr 1997
---
Marie, i hope i
do not have shattered yr poems snipping
yr words if this
occours i deeply apologies - yr statement concerning
the dawn of yr
poetry is biographical correct - but i think
u are always
walkin thru aisles walls of dreams looking for
real
word/flowers.
cari saluti a
tutti,
Rinaldo.
--------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:07:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: NPR & Di Prima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Just a note:
>Did anyone
listen to National Public Radio this evening (1555 PDT)?
>There were
five minutes devoted to Diane DiPrima. I
found it quite
>nice. They had an English Professor from some
school in the midwest (I
>think) speak
briefly about her, her Beat nature, etc., and then two of
>her poems
were read, one about her Grandfather, and another about...
>shoot, I
don't remember off the top of my head right now.
>Sort of
interesting.
>
>Christopher.
>
Indeed it was.
The name that comes to mind is Cathy Roman at the U of
Indiana,
Bloomington. They were a link to NPR from radiio station WGIU.
Di Prima's new
book, from City Lights is PIECES OF A SONG.
Also interesting
were the comments about her not seperating her public and
private life in
her writings and having a goal of "creating a rich inner
life" and
"poetry being a means of awakening the imagination."
Looks like I'll
have her on the air for an interview (Madison) in the near
future. If anyone
has questions they would like to ask her, send them and
I'll do exactly
that. I'm starting to attract some volunteer help with the
BookZen site and
will see if we can get the interview transcribed to share
with anyone
interested.
Finally, has
anyone saved the posts on the thread that began when DiPrima
was referred to
as a "Kerouac desperation fuck?"
I've been looking them
over and it's
very interesting. This morning, I was describing the thread
to my best
friend, who responded with a story that just happened to a
conservator who
had been approached (via E-mail) about the availability of
what was touted
as being the "absolutely best magnetic tape" for
preservation
librarians to use. Individuals responded with questions about
specific
characteristics that they were looking for. They were told that
the tape had it
all.
As the questions
continued, the answers became less and less specific. Each
question and
answer was saved. In the end the magnetic tape was not
significantly
different from what was already available. Just someone with
a BS sales pitch
looking for quick $'s with no regard for the work
preservationists,
conservationists, etc. are doing--without any concern for
the material they
are preserving. An education in wading through the BS and
getting to the
facts.
Back to Di Prima.
This little
incident with Di Prima being referred to as a "Beat wanna-be,
scag, desperation
fuck..." points up the FACT that women, be they writers,
witresses,
artists, service workers, you name the jobt, still face serious
obsticles. whgen
we see it happen, we either respond, or end up on the side
of the
oppressors.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
new interactiv robot on the www
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<19980219123151.25383.qmail@hotmail.com>
References:
matt@mom.spie.org
writes:
>Hello,
>
>We have
developed a interactive robot which can
be controlled via
>Internet.
With a small input you can move slices of the Tower of hanoi
>with getting
feedback over a server pushed live camera (no plugin
>necessary)
>Here the
address where you can try our interactive robot
>http://www.fh-konstanz.de/studium/ze/cim/projekte/webcam/index.html
>
>have fun
>
> Markus (
mailto:ecmb143@fh-konstanz.de )
>
>Team of the
Internetroboter at the Fachhochschule Konstanz
>http://www.fh-konstanz.de/studium/ze/cim/projekte/webcam/
>mailto:netrobot@fh-konstanz.de
>
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:20:25 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 19
Feb 1998 19:04:30...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:04:30 +0100 with subject "the early
mc poetry." has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (256
recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:20:29 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 19
Feb 1998 18:24:14...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:24:14 +0100 with subject "Hungarian
Proverb" has
been successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (256
recipients).
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:22:19 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 19
Feb 1998 19:15:08...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:15:08
+0100 with subject "(FWD) new
interactiv robot
on the www" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (256
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
X-Attachments:
C:\GUANYIN.JPG;
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:23:12 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: JPG Avalokitesvara
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Here is a jpeg if
guan yin aka guan shi yin or Avalokitesvara riding a
dragon, her
preferred method of transportation.
Today is her
birthday.
If you have
trouble opening it in a graphics program then use netscape.
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\GUANYIN.jpg"
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:26:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Avalokitesvara's B-Day Today
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 12:03 AM
2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Today is
Avalokitesvara's birthday (the 19th).
Avalokitesvara
was the bodhisattva known for compassion.
According to one
etymology the name means "the Lord who
looks
down". In India, Avalokitesvara is
of masculine form,
although in
China, "he" was venerated in feminine form under
the name Kuan-yin
(Kannon in Japan). This gender shift is
one
example of the
power to take any shape that is needed to benefit
believers (a
section in the _Lotus sutra_ lists many examples of such
shape shifting -
25th section I believe). Many women feel
a special
closeness to
"her" and pray to this "goddess of mercy" due to
"her"
promise to bring
children to those who lack them and her promise
to take care of
infants who die, including aborted foetuses.
Just some basic
info. . .
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:32:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 09:47 AM
2/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Jeffrey
Perchuk wrote:
>>
>> What's
past is past--and if Diprima had obstacles to
>>
overcome--well, then it probably made her a better poet. If you REALLY have
>>
something to say--then gender problems notwithstanding--you'll say it.
>> Whatever
else there is in Diprima's writings--there's none of the whining,
>>
self-referntial tripe that passes for "feminist" poetry nowadays.
Which is
>> why it's
so BORING to read. If Diprima had confined herself to that
>>
alone--she wouldn't be worth my attention. So what's yer gripe, then?
>> >
>> >
>> >I
like discussing LITERATURE---not gender polemics. Maybe it's because I'm
>> 44 years
old and consider that kind of thing just a little.....tedious. If
>> you want
to talk about literature, I can talk until the cows come home.
>>
Everything else is just.....nonsense. But then--that's not a terribly
>>
post-modern point of view--is it now?
>> >
>>
>Ho-hum.
>> >
>> >
>>
> J. Perchuk
>
>gosh, it is
good to see such a great post.
Interesting, confined to
>literature,
insightful. 44 and can talk literature ,
and none of that
>boring whiney
antifemenist crap you hear.
>
>i think it is
silly to think that chauvinism, racism, anti-type wars, or
>any kind of
knee jerk thinking doesn't affect which voices are published
>or
encouraged. The exchange of views and perspective become limited by
>that
approach. but i also look at labels like major and minor as
>limiting.
>One of the
attractions i feel for beat literature and poetry is their
>use of
language to liberate.
>patricia
>
>
Gee,
Patricia--What an interesting reponse to my post. I suppose I could
take it either
way, but...
In any case, I
won't dispute that the publishing situation which prevailed
then was bad
indeed--of course it was. The outlets available for the "new
consciousness"
were few and far between. And as badly as guys like Kerouac,
Cassady and
others treated women, the internal contradiction of advocating
freedom male
freedom while denying it to women eventually gave way. In point
of fact, it is
the women of the movement who now have the last word for the
ironically simple
reason that they outlived the men. Early burnout may have
given the writing
a romantic, fatalistic edge, but it also left the legacy
of these writers
to the people who, in my opinion, were best suited to the
job---the women
who shared the lives of these men. Publication and
recognition may
have come late for them--but it came, at long last. And
perhaps in the
intervening time the natural maturing process gave the books
by Joyce Johnson
and Jan Kerouac a dimension of thoughtfulness and depth
that was lacking
in the more frenetic writings of Kerouac and Cassady.
As for labels and
"knee-jerk" responses to literature--my own responses are
pretty well
thought out and NOT dictated by narrow political concerns. I
keep hearing
people tell me "The personal is the political" but I
categorically
reject that in terms of literary analysis. Yes, racism and
chauvinism
determined to a large extent whose voice gets heard, but if it
was based SOLELY
on that, then there wouldn't be as much good writing out
there as there is
now. Sometimes--all protests to the contrary, quality wins
out--not
political dogma. I'm not denying the activist mentality in much of
the writing, but
me, I enjoy the nuance and beauty of language; the bizarre
images and their
"convulsive beauty"; the adherence to form without being
enslaved by it;
the freshness and innovation.
If you want to
read your own sense of indignation into the literature you
confront--that's
your right. I'm not even downplaying the element of social
protest and
activism in this regard--it's just not as interesting to me as
the writing
itself. If there's something wrong with
that, blame the people
who educated me.
They taught me to look for quality in literature. And that
hasn't changed.
Thanks for
listening.
Jeff Percjuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:20:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I must agree with
the love of my life. *GRIN* I personally abhor
Catholicism for
all its violence and hatred and think Edgar Cayce was a
quack, but that
doesn't make me love/relate to Kerouac's poetry and prose
any less. Kerouac
also turned rather conservative toward the end of his
life, if I recall
correctly, but that does not in any way discount the
wonderful,
beautiful person and amazing writer that he was.
--Sara
>
>Hi to all,
>
>I
*personally* try not to give too much attention to the Catholic/
>Buddhist/Caycean/whatever
influences on J.K. or N.C.-life. Sure,
>and
especially in Jack's case, it was important in every way he
>lived his
life but there's this saying
>
>_They say
there's just enough religion in the world to make men
> hate one
another but not enough to make them love_
>
>That's my
*opinion*.
>
>
Sincerely,
>
>
--Thomas
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: James
Purdy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980219081214.16582B-100000@calcna.ab.ca>
References:
...i remember
this writer in early 80s was translated
wide in italian,
and i love his short novel, poems
and piece. then
he disapperead and now i dont' know
where he is...
http://www.conjunctions.com/archives/c20-jp.htm
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:42:28 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 19
Feb 1998 22:36:18...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:36:18 +0100 with subject "James
Purdy." has been
successfully distributed to
the BEAT-L list (254
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:05:42 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac, Catholicism, whatta can o'
worms....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy: I was
raised Catholic, and spent 14 years of my life in Catholic
schools. I know
more than I want to about the Catholic religion. Yes, OK,
many other
religions' histories are bloody, but the
history of Catholicism
is by far the
bloodiest. Look at history, and you'll see what I'm talking
about. To say
that there is no "hatred" in the Catholic religion, however,
is naïve. These
are people who think gays deserve to die if they want to
love each other.
These are people who believe that an innocent newborn
baby, if not
baptized, will "burn in Hell." For the above reasons, I have
no respect for
Catholicism. But the fact that Kerouac was sorta' Catholic
has no impact on
the quality and beauty of his writing. That's all I was
saying.--Sara
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:21:01 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dr Rockit
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization: D
for Doctor
Subject: Re: Avalokitesvara's B-Day Today
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> At 03:26 PM
2/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >At 12:03
AM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >
>
>>Today is Avalokitesvara's birthday (the 19th).
> >
>
>Avalokitesvara was the bodhisattva known for compassion.
>
>According to one etymology the name means "the Lord who
> >looks
down". In India, Avalokitesvara is
of masculine form,
> >although
in China, "he" was venerated in feminine form under
> >the name
Kuan-yin (Kannon in Japan). This gender
shift is one
> >example
of the power to take any shape that is needed to benefit
>
>believers (a section in the _Lotus sutra_ lists many examples of such
> >shape
shifting - 25th section I believe). Many
women feel a special
>
>closeness to "her" and pray to this "goddess of mercy"
due to "her"
> >promise
to bring children to those who lack them and her promise
> >to take
care of infants who die, including aborted foetuses.
> >
> >Just
some basic info. . .
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
>
> Thanks for
this nice synopsis, Mike. I am sure you
know more than me about
> this sort of
thing. I just knew it was
Avalokitesvara's birthday because I
> went to the
Hsi Lai Temple (the one where Gore went to get laundered money,
> also named
yesterday as an unindicted co-conspirator in the indicted of
> Maria Hsia
the DNC fundraiser) the other day to here a fellow named Chen
> Li-an give a
talk on being a Buddhist (which I am not).
He's a nice man who
> was a
government official in Taiwan and ran for president of the ROC in 1996.
>
> I saw their
bulletin boards talking about Avalokitesvara's birthday and it's
> on their
calender they give out.
>
> All I know
is Kuan Yin is also know as kuan shi yin and is also spelled Guan
> and is
pronounced gwan een.
>
> I would say
to anyone out there who's a Buddhist to visit the Hsi Lai Temple
> (it is in
Hacienda Heights, California--not LA).
It's the biggest Buddhist
> Temple outside
of Asia and you'd think it's really cool.
>
> Just don't
contribute any money to politicians who might be there.
>
> I got that
picture from a little book called the High King Kuan Yin Sutra
> put out by
the True Buddha School (www.tbsn.org)
>
> Just for fun
here is that sutra. ....
Sorry I cut the
sutra out, but all I really wanted to say is
thanks from the
bottom of my heart for typing that all out,
sharing it with
us, i love it!
I'm gonna learn
Chinese!
Sincerely,
--Thomas
> and the way
I feel just makes me want to scream 'come home'
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:22:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Avalokitesvara's B-Day Today
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 03:26 PM
2/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 12:03 AM
2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Today is
Avalokitesvara's birthday (the 19th).
>
>Avalokitesvara
was the bodhisattva known for compassion.
>According to
one etymology the name means "the Lord who
>looks
down". In India, Avalokitesvara is
of masculine form,
>although in
China, "he" was venerated in feminine form under
>the name
Kuan-yin (Kannon in Japan). This gender
shift is one
>example of
the power to take any shape that is needed to benefit
>believers (a
section in the _Lotus sutra_ lists many examples of such
>shape
shifting - 25th section I believe). Many
women feel a special
>closeness to
"her" and pray to this "goddess of mercy" due to
"her"
>promise to
bring children to those who lack them and her promise
>to take care
of infants who die, including aborted foetuses.
>
>Just some
basic info. . .
>
>Mike
>
>
Thanks for this
nice synopsis, Mike. I am sure you know
more than me about
this sort of
thing. I just knew it was
Avalokitesvara's birthday because I
went to the Hsi
Lai Temple (the one where Gore went to get laundered money,
also named
yesterday as an unindicted co-conspirator in the indicted of
Maria Hsia the
DNC fundraiser) the other day to here a fellow named Chen
Li-an give a talk
on being a Buddhist (which I am not).
He's a nice man who
was a government
official in Taiwan and ran for president of the ROC in 1996.
I saw their
bulletin boards talking about Avalokitesvara's birthday and it's
on their calender
they give out.
All I know is
Kuan Yin is also know as kuan shi yin and is also spelled Guan
and is pronounced
gwan een.
I would say to
anyone out there who's a Buddhist to visit the Hsi Lai Temple
(it is in
Hacienda Heights, California--not LA).
It's the biggest Buddhist
Temple outside of
Asia and you'd think it's really cool.
Just don't
contribute any money to politicians who might be there.
I got that
picture from a little book called the High King Kuan Yin Sutra
put out by the
True Buddha School (www.tbsn.org)
Just for fun here
is that sutra. It's pretty short and has
a romanized
chinese
interspersed with the english translation.
The High King
Avalokitesvara (Kuan Yin) Sutra
GAO WANG GUAN SHI
YIN ZHEN JING:
High King
Kuan Yin Sutra:
GUAN SHI
YIN PU SA,
Homage to Kuan
Yin Bodhisattva
NA MO
FO,
Homage to
the Buddhas,
NA MO
FA,
Homage to
the Dharma,
NA MO SENG,
Homage to
the Sangha.
FO-GUO YOU
YUAN.
An affinity with the Pure
Lands opens the Dharma Doors,
FO FA XIANG YIN, CHANG LE WO
JING, YOU YUAN FO FA.
By engaging permanence, bliss
identity and purity, one is blessed
with the Dharma
NA MO MO HO BO RE BO LUO MI
SHI DA SHEN ZHOU.
Namo Maha Prajna Paramita,
a great spiritual mantra.
NA MO MO HO BO RE BO LUO MI
SHI DA MING ZHOU
Namo Maha Praina
Paramita, a great wisdom mantra.
NA MO MO HO BO RE BO LUO MI
SHI WU SHANG ZHOU.
Namo Maha Prajna Paramita, a
supreme mantra.
NA MO MO HO BO RE BO LUO MI SHI
WU DENG DENG ZHOU.
Namo Maha Prajna
Paramita, an unequalled mantra.
NA MO JING GUANG
MI MI FO,
Namo the Pure
Light Secret Buddha,
FA
ZANG FO,
the Dharma
Treasury Buddha,
SHI TZE HOU SHEN ZU
YOU WANG FO,
the Tranquil King Buddha
with Lion's roar and divine speed,
FO GAO SHE MI
DENG WANG FO,
the Sumeru Light King
Buddha announced by Buddha,
FA HU FO,
the Dharma
Protector Buddha,
JIN GANG ZANG SHI
ZI YOU XI FO,
the Vajra Treasury
Roaming Lion Buddha,
BAO SHENG FO,
the Precious
Victory Buddha,
SHEN
TONG FO,
the
Supernatural Power Buddha,
YAO SHI LIU LI
GUANG WANG FO,
the Medicine
Crystal Light King Buddha,
PU GUANG GONG DE
SHAN WANG FO,
the Universal Light
Merit Mountain King Buddha,
SHAN ZHU GONG DE BAO WANG FO,
the Merit
Retaining jewel King Buddha,
GUO QU
Ql FO,
the Seven
Past Buddhas,
WEI LAI XIAN JIE QIAN FO,
the Future Thousand
Buddhas of this fortunate eon,
QIAN WU
BAI FO,
the Fifteen
Hundred Buddhas,
WAN WU QIAN FO,
the Fifteen
Thousand Buddhas,
WU BAI HUA
SHENG FO,
the Five Hundred
Flower Victory Buddhas,
BAI YI JIN GANG ZANG FO,
the Ten Billion
Vajra Treasury Buddhas,
DING
GUANG FO,
and the
Fixed Light Buddha,
LIU FANG LIO FO MING HAO:
The Buddhas of
Six Directions:
DONG FANG BAO GUANG YUE DIAN YUE
MIAO ZUN YIN WANG FO,
To the East the Precious Light Moon
Palace Venerable Wonderful Voice
King Buddha,
NAN FANG SHU GEN
HUA WANG FO,
to the South the
Tree-Root Flower King Buddha,
XI FANG ZAO WANG SHEN TONG
YAN HUA WANG FO,
to the West the Spiritual
Power Flower Blazing King Buddha,
BEI FANG YUE DIAN
QING JING FO,
to the North the
Moon Palace Purity Buddha,
SHANG FANG WU SHU JING
JEN BAO SHOU FO,
Above, the countless Vigor jewel
Crown Buddhas,
XIA FANG SHAN JI YUE
YIN WANG FO.
Below, the Tranquil
Moon Sound King Buddha.
WU LIANG
ZHU FO,
All the
countless Buddhas,
DUO BAO
FO,
Many
Jewels Buddha,
SHI JIA
MOU NI FO,
Shakyamuni Buddha,
MI
LE FO'
Maitreya
Buddha,
A CHU
FO,
Akshobhya Buddha,
MI TUO
FO.
Amitabha
Buddha.
ZHONG YANG YI QIE
ZHONG SHENG,
All beings in
the Central Realm,
ZAI FO SHI JIE
ZHONG ZHE,
and those in
the Pure Lands,
XIANG ZHU YU DI SHANG, JI
ZAI XU KONG ZHONG
while moving upon the
Earth and through the Heavens,
Cl YOU YU YI QIE
ZHONG SHENG,
shower limitless
compassion upon all living beings,
GE LING AN
WEN XIU XI
affording them equanimity and peace,
ZHOU YE
XIU CUI
that they might
cultivate day and night
XIN CHANG QIU
SONG Cl JING
By constantly invoking this
sutra,
NENG MIE SHENG SI KU,
XIAO CHU ZHU DO HAI,
one is liberated from the suffering of birth
and death, and freed from all
the many kinds of
suffering.
NA MO DA MING GUAN SHI YIN,
Homage to the
great wisdom Kuan Yin,
GUAN MING GUAN
SHI YIN,
the
observant Kuan Yin,
GAO MING GUAN SHI YIN,
the noble
Kuan Yin,
KAI MING GUAN
SHI YIN,
the
expansively-minded Kuan Yin,
YAO WANG PU SA,
the Medicine
King Bodhisattva,
YAO SHANG
PU SA,
the supreme
Medicine Bodhisattva,
WEN SHU SHI
LI PU SA,
Manjusri
Bodhisattva,
PU XIAN
PU SA,
Samantabhadra Bodhisattva,
XU KONG ZANG
PU SA,
Akasagarbha
Bodhisattva,
DI ZANG WANG
PU SA,
Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva,
QING LIANG BAO SHAN
YI WAN PU SA,
the billions of Clear Cool
Treasure Mountain Bodhisattvas,
PU GUANG WANG LU LAI
HUA SHENG PU SA,
the Universal Light
Venerable King Tathagata Bodhisattva.
NIAN NIAN SONG Cl JING,
Chanting this
sutra continually,
Ql FO SHI ZUN, JI
SHOU ZHOU YUE:
the Seven World-Honored
Buddhas recite this mantra:
LI PO LI PO DI, QIU HO QIU HO DI, TUO LUO NI
DI, NI BO LA DI, BI LI NI DI,
MO HO QIE
DI, ZHEN LING QIAN
DI, SA PO HO.
Lee-poh-lee-poh-deh, kyo-ho-kyo-ho-deh,
toh-loh-nee-deh,
nee-ah-la-deh,
pee-lee-nee-deh,
mo-ho-kya-deh, jen-len-chen
deh, so-ha (7 times)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:43:21 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: diprima/Pieces Of A Song
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>i
accidenntally deleted post that named latest poetry book by diprima;
>and i havn't
received an answer from waterrow books re: their stock of
>diprima.
>i can't use
any other online book sellers as i don't have a credit card,
>which
complicates this part of my life but is a boon to the rest.
>i can have it
special ordered in town, am wondering if any one has a
>list of her
poetry as well as the latest.
>thanks,
>mc
PIECES OF A SONG
by Diane Di Prima,
here is
Ferlingghetti's address:
City Lights
Publishers
261 Columbus Ave.
San Francisco,
CA 94133
(415) 362-8193
BUT,
I'm sure Waterrow
has, or will have it.
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:48:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I see what you're
saying, but I don't recall any Buddhist Inquisition or
Buddhist
Crusades.... Or have I missed something? I'm not saying that ALL
religions are
evil, it just seems that MANY of them do way more harm than
good! Remember
the Branch Davidians? Heaven's Gate? Tellya what, my
grandfather is a
minister, and he just got thrown off the elder council of
his church for
STALKING A 30 YEAR OLD WOMAN! My grandma is constantly
finding Pentouse
and Hustler and Big Butt and who knows what else amidst
his Bible-stuff.
He also grabbed my ass when I was 13 years old, and is a
racist. Then
there's Jim Bakker, Oral Roberts and his 900-foot Jesus, Jimmy
"sob,
sniffle" Swaggart, and all those other obnoxious dudes with bad
hairdos. --Sara
t 12:33 PM
2/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>ahoy there,
>
>i must say
that this was what kerouac was trying to change in everyone.
>Buddhism,
shamanism, catholicism, and on and on and on.
wasn't JK tryin
>to say they
were all basically the same? ya'll keep
talkin bout the
>horrors and
violence and such of catholicism, but that's the people in
>the
religion. has nothin to do with the
religion itself. They're all
>pretty much
the same if you ask me.
>
>Al
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:51:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: T. S. Elliot
Comments: To:
DebyLGW16@aol.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-19 07:35:11 EST, Julian wrote:
<<
i was wondering if anyone knew where i could
get the text to the
"prufuck" (sp?) poem, i have been
told it's the greatest thing since
sliced bread...
-julian
>>
The Love song of
J. Alfred Prufrock
TS Eliot
Let us go then,
you an I,
When the evening
is spread out against the sky
Like a patient
etherized upon a table;
Let us go,
through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering
retreats
Of restless
nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust
restaraunts with oyster shells;
Streets that
follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious
intent
To lead you to an
overwhelming question...
Oh, do not ask,
"What is it?"
Let us go and
make our visit.
In the room the
women come and go
Talking of
Michelangelo.
The yellow fog
that rubs its back upon the window-panes,
The yellow smoke
that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes,
Licked its tongue
into the corners of the evening,
Lingered upon the
pools that stand in drains,
Let fall upon its
back the soot that falls from chimneys.
Slipped by the
terace, made a sudden leap,
And seeing that
it was a soft October night,
Curled once about
the house and fell asleep.
And indeed there
will be a time
For the yellow
smoke that slides along the street,
Rubbing its back
upon the window-panes;
There will be
time, there will be time
To prepare a face
to meet the faces that you meet;
There will be
time to murder and create,
And time for all
the works and days of hands
That lift and
drop a question on your plate;
Time for you and
time for me,
And time yet for
a hundred indecisions,
And for a hundred
visions and revisions,
Before the taking
of toast and tea.
In the room women
come and go,
Talking of
Michelangelo.
And indeed there
will be time
To wonder,
"Do I dare?' and "Do I dare?"
Time to turn back
and descend the stair
With a bald spot
in the middle of my hair-
(They will say:
"How his hair is growing thin!")
My morning coat,
my collar mounted firmly to the chin,
My necktie rich
and modest, but asserted by a simple pin-
(They will say:
"But how is arms and legs are thin!")
Do I dare
Disturb the
universe?
In a minute there
is time
For decisions and
revisions which a minute will reverse.
For I have known
them all already, known them all-
Have known the
evenings, mornings, afternoons,
I have measured
out my life with coffee spoons;
I know the voices
dying with a dying fall
Beneath the music
from a farther room.
So how should I
presume?
And I have known
the eyes already, knwon them all-
The eyes that fix
you in a formulated phrase,
And when I am
formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When i am pinned
and wriggling on the wall,
Then how should I
begin
To spit out all
the butt-ends of my days and ways?
And how should I
presume?
And I have known
the arms already, known them all-
Arms that are
braceleted and white and bare
(But in the lamp
light, downed with light brown hair!)
Is it perfum from
a dress
That makes me so
digress?
Arms that lie
along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
And should I then
presume?
And how should I
begin?
Shall I say, I
have gone at dusk through narrow streets
And watched the
smoke that rises from the pipes
Of lonely men in
shirt sleeves, leaning out of windows?
I should have
been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across
the floors of silent seas.
And the
afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully!
Smoothed by long
fingers.
Asleep...
tired... or it malingers
Stretched on the
floor, here beside you and me.
Should I, after
tea and cakes and ices,
Have the strength
to force the moment to its crisis?
But though I have
wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
Though I have
seen my head (grown slightly bald) brought in upon a platter
I am no prophet-
and here's no great matter;
I have seen the
moment of my greatness flicker,
And I have seen
the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker
And in short, I
was afraid.
And would it have
been worth it, after all,
After the cups,
the marmalade, the tea,
Among the
porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
Would it have
been worth while
To have bitten
off teh matter with a smile,
To have squeezed
the univers into a ball
To roll it toward
some overwhelming question,
To say, "I
am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell
you all, I shall tell you all"-
If one, settling
a pillow by her head,
Should say:
"That is not what I meant at all.
That is not it at
all."
And would it have
been worth it, after all,
Would it have
been worthwhile,
After the sunsets
and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
After the novels,
after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the
floor-
And this, and so
much more?-
It is impossible
to say just what I mean!
But as if a magic
lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen;
Would it have
been worthwhile
If one, settling
a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
And turning
toward the window, should say,
"That is not
it at all,
That is not what
I meant at all."
No! I am not
Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an attendant
lord, one that will do
To swell a
progress, start a scene or two
Advise the
prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential, glad
to be of use,
Politic,
cautious, and meticulous;
Full of high
sentence, but a bit obtuse;
At times, indeed,
almost ridiculous-
Almost, at times,
the Fool.
I grow old... I
grow old...
I shall wear the
bottoms of my trousers rolled.
Shall I part my
hair behind? Do i dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear
white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the
mermaids singing each to each.
I do not think
they will sing for me.
I have seen them
riding seaward on the waves
Combing the white
hair of the waves blown back
When the wind
blows the water white and black.
We have lingered
in the chambers of the sea
By seagirls
wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Til human voices
wake us and we drown.
______________
Dammit, that's
long. Sorry for spelling mistakes. But anyway. Oh yeah:
Favorite Poem #5:
"The Last
Benjamin of Tudela"
Yehuda Amichai
25 pages long and
amazing.
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[153.36.236.222]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:01:31 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: susie sinor
<susie_sinor@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: neal cassady
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'm doing a
report in my american history class on neal cassady and his
importance in
american culture, history, etc.
i know the
obvious stuff, but i'm looking for some good references to
use.
i live in a real
small town, so the library is no help.
if you have any
ideas, e-mail me please.
susie
susie_sinor@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:24:26 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Catholism/Kerouac/Cassady/Cayce
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What I'm saying
is not that one should ignore the influences of religion on
Kerouac, but no
matter one's personal feelings on the subject, the
influence of
religion does not have any bearing on the beauty of his
writing. I can
see where Kerouac would have liked aspects of Catholicism.
On paper, SOME of
it sounds like a good idea. But I don't think Kerouac, if
alive today,
would agree with the pope on ANYTHING, and especially not the
pope's treatment
of gays. I think he was more of what they call a
"cafeteria-Catholic:"
he took what he liked and left the rest. Same goes
for Buddhism.
--Sara
At 03:22 PM
2/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Putting aside
any personal feeling about religion...organized or otherwise..
>
>I don't see
how you can read Kerouac's work and not be conscious of his
>religious
upbringing (Catholic) and his later investigations into
>Buddhism. Particularly because his work is so personal.
>
>Also, Cayce
was such an important influence on Cassady and Kerouac's
>relationship
with Cassady you can't disregard him. It
doesn't matter
>what *you*
feel about Cayce, consider how Cassady was effected influenced
>by Cayce.
>
>If you don't
consider the "religious" influence of Catholism, Buddhism,
>Cayce(ism)
etc. on the author, I think you are limiting your perspective.
>
>Dawn
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:34:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: "The Love Song Of J. Alfred
Prufrock"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Anybody
interested in the numerous obscure references and allusions in
Eliot's poem
should read, "From Ritual To Romance" by Jesse L. Weston
(publisher
unknown, sorry) Julian--take note--!!
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:59:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jesus christ,
wasn't even sure what it was i said to get everyone up in arms,
'til i went back
and checked.
in my personal
opinion, gender issues and literature are intimately linked,
virginia woolf is
one amazing author i'm currently submersed in that would
probably have
agreed. i'm sorry not everyone is of the
same opinion on that
matter, but
'sokay with me.
--ce
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:00:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Creeeeeeep@AOL.COM
Subject: unsubscribe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Please remove me
from list.
Thanks
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:47:43 -0500
Reply-To: ksix3@immaculata.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: kathleen six
<ksix3@IMMACULATA.EDU>
Organization:
Immaculata College
Subject: Kerouac and/or Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I was on the list
a couple of years ago but I never wrote anything.
Anyway, I am
doing my final senior thesis on On The Road and how it
affected the
youth of the fifties and how it was affected by the
environment of
the fifties. My teacher is skeptical
about my ability to
present Kerouac
in a serious setting and I hope some of you will be able
to help me prove
her wrong. If anyone has any sites,
articles, books,
etc... that they
think I should look into please e-mail me at
ksix3@immaculata.edu.
Thanks. I find all of the other posts interesting
too. I've been
reading works by
and about the Beat generation since I was a freshman in
high school. ( I am now a senior in college) I am really enjoying
myself reading
this list as well as doing my other research.
Thanks,
Katey
P.S. If anyone has any sources for T.S. Eliot,
especially concerning
The Wasteland,
please let me know. Thanks again.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:50:03 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Christa St. Peter"
<astrid@NORSHORE.NET>
Subject: Re: neal cassady
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does your library
have inter-library loan? I live in a very small town
also, so I have
to get books this way all the time.
----------
> From: susie
sinor <susie_sinor@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject:
neal cassady
> Date:
Thursday, February 19, 1998 6:01 PM
>
> i'm doing a
report in my american history class on neal cassady and his
> importance
in american culture, history, etc.
> i know the
obvious stuff, but i'm looking for some good references to
> use.
> i live in a
real small town, so the library is no help.
> if you have
any ideas, e-mail me please.
>
> susie
>
>
susie_sinor@hotmail.com
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:56:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I would suggest
that you look in The Complete Poems and Plays of T.S.
Eliot. It will be worth it. But, I am not sure about sliced bread.
Julian Ruck
wrote:
> i was wondering if anyone knew where i could
get the text to the
>
"prufuck" (sp?) poem, i have been told it's the greatest thing since
> sliced
bread...
>
> -julian
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:23:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Found this on the
Kerouac Quarterly Home page. It's a press release from
St. Martin's
Press. The book will be out Spring/Summer this year.
This one should
be interesting, I know it has me drooling for more.I can
hear the clacking
of keys on the beat-l already. Any comments? Phil Chaput
Subterranean Kerouac: The Hidden Life
of Jack Kerouac by Ellis
Amburn described
as
follows by St. Martin's Press...
The first biography of Jack Kerouac to
portray fully the intense
inner life that
inspired his work - by his last editor,
the biographer, Ellis Amburn.
Drawing upon original interviews and
his own relationship with
Kerouac, Ellis
Amburn
has revealed an inner Kerouac who has
not appeared in any previous
biography, a man
torn by his conflicting desires and
beliefs.
Born to a poor, alcoholic father and a
devoutly Catholic mother,
Kerouac always
struggled with poverty, his drinking,
and his doubts about his own
lifestyle of
substance
abuse, indolence, and promiscuity.
Perhaps the greatest of Kerouac's
conflicts centered around his
sexual
relationships with
men. While other biographers have only
hinted at Kerouac's
experiences with
men,
Amburn addresses these directly, and
sheds a new light on their
profound impact
on a
man who remained convinced until his
death that his homosexuality
was in fact
immoral.
Deeply insightful, refreshing, and
certainly controversial,
Subterranean
Kerouac is a
necessary book for any Kerouac fan or
scholar.
"The key to understanding Kerouac
lies in his divided nature. He
was both straight
and
gay, a rebel and a reactionary,
awandering mystic and an inveterate
homebody, a hobo
and a dedicated professional."
-from the book Subterranean Kerouac.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:25:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane Diprima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:41 PM
2/19/98 EST, you wrote:
>sorry to
upset you so much, but in my personal opinion, gender issues and
>literature
are intimately linked. virginia woolf,
jane austin, and many, many
>others may
have agreed with me. sorry you don't.
>
>
Okay--let me see
if I can explain this properly. I am NOT discounting the
importance of
gender with respect to these issues--and it's not that I don't
think it's
important--but obviously, because I am a male the issue doesn't
resonate with me
as deeply as it might with you. What I AM objecting to is
the strident,
combative type of feminist criticism that is all to familiar
these days.
Gender politics can sometimes overshadow discussions of the
literature to
such an extent that the real meaning of the work in question
gets lost in all
the confusion. There's more to Woolf's writing--or
DiPrima's--than
just the question of gender. Maybe they interest me more as
stylists--I'm not
really sure. But I DO know that when criticism becomes so
narrowly focused
on one issue as to be almost obsessive (and I'm not
accusing YOU of
doing this either) then I think it can be a drawback. And
unfortunately,
many so-called "post-modern" interpretations are precisely
that. I could
give numerous examples, but what would be the point?
It's not that I
don't think these issues are not important. They just aren't
the focal point
of my interest. That's all.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:35:50 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
According to
Ellis Amburn:
>
> Perhaps the greatest of Kerouac's
conflicts centered around his
>sexual
relationships with
> men. While other biographers have only
hinted at Kerouac's
>experiences
with men,
> Amburn addresses these directly, and
sheds a new light on their
>profound
impact on a
> man who remained convinced until his
death that his homosexuality
>was in fact
immoral.
>
> Deeply insightful, refreshing, and
certainly controversial,
>Subterranean
Kerouac is a
> necessary book for any Kerouac fan or
scholar.
>
> "The key to understanding Kerouac
lies in his divided nature. He
>was both
straight and
> gay, a rebel and a reactionary,
awandering mystic and an inveterate
>homebody, a
hobo
> and a dedicated professional."
-from the book Subterranean Kerouac.
>
It sounds like Mr. Amburn is getting
his information straight from
MEMORY BABE. In MEMORY BABE, there are descriptions of
Jack Kerouac's
sexual adventures
with at least twenty men, including Gore Vidal, Allen
Ginsberg, Robert
Giroux, and an FBI agent! I even quote
Jack Kerouac in a
portion of Ted
Berrigan's PARIS REVIEW interview that was suppressed by
George Plimpton,
where Kerouac described his sexual pleasures (apparently
much like Bill
Clinton's): "Blowjobs, yes!
Assholes, no!" What does
Amburn
mean, "only
hinted at by other biographers"?
How much more graphic was I
supposed to
be? It was in fact my supposed portrayal
of Jack's
"homosexuality"
(actually I refer to it as bisexuality) that the Sampas
family objected
so much to in MEMORY BABE.
--Gerald
Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:54:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Kerouac's Contradictions Are Hardly News
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Of Jack Kerouac, Gerald Nicosia wrote
in MEMORY BABE:
"He was able to resolve nothing
because he was speaking directly
from a genius
whose locus was outside his personality--a genius that might
be triangulated
somewhere between Riviere du Loup, Hollywood, and Heaven.
He was a
hillbilly scholar and a hokey saint, with Japanese mezzotints and
works by El
Greco, Rouault, Picasso, Van Gogh, Rousseau, and Gauguin sharing
his bedroom walls
with little pictures of the Virgin Mary and St. Joseph and
the crucifix above
the bed. He was determined to blast out
from his very
heart all the
garbage of the age, the processed shit with which fifties
America was
stuffed like a Christmas turkey--even if much of the time he was
flipping or
weeping, really weeping--and to give his tortured and grappling
nation a voice,
even though the job would kill him; and knowing that, he had
taken it on
anyway, and there was no reforming him now." (MEMORY BABE, p. 596)
So now we are to applaud Mr. Ellis
Amburn for having discovered the
contradictions in
Kerouac? Perhaps we should applaud him
for having
discovered the
wheel and the laws of gravity too.
--Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:24:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>According to
Ellis Amburn:
>>
>> Perhaps the greatest of Kerouac's
conflicts centered around his
>>sexual
relationships with
>> men. While other biographers have only
hinted at Kerouac's
>>experiences
with men,
>> Amburn addresses these directly, and
sheds a new light on their
>>profound
impact on a
>> man who remained convinced until his
death that his homosexuality
>>was in
fact immoral.
>>
>> Deeply insightful, refreshing, and
certainly controversial,
>>Subterranean
Kerouac is a
>> necessary book for any Kerouac fan or
scholar.
>>
>> "The key to understanding Kerouac
lies in his divided nature. He
>>was both
straight and
>> gay, a rebel and a reactionary,
awandering mystic and an inveterate
>>homebody,
a hobo
>> and a dedicated professional."
-from the book Subterranean Kerouac.
>>
>
> It sounds like Mr. Amburn is getting
his information straight from
>MEMORY
BABE. In MEMORY BABE, there are
descriptions of Jack Kerouac's
>sexual
adventures with at least twenty men, including Gore Vidal, Allen
>Ginsberg,
Robert Giroux, and an FBI agent! I even
quote Jack Kerouac in a
>portion of Ted
Berrigan's PARIS REVIEW interview that was suppressed by
>George
Plimpton, where Kerouac described his sexual pleasures (apparently
>much like
Bill Clinton's): "Blowjobs, yes!
Assholes, no!" What does
Amburn
>mean,
"only hinted at by other biographers"? How much more graphic was I
>supposed to
be? It was in fact my supposed portrayal
of Jack's
>"homosexuality"
(actually I refer to it as bisexuality) that the Sampas
>family
objected so much to in MEMORY BABE.
> --Gerald Nicosia
I mst say I did
think Phil's message sounded rather self-serving. I don't
think we need the
carnival barker approach to interest the people here in
another kerouac
biography. That sensationalistic
national enquirer
approach might be
a good hook for the general populace in selling the book,
but to me, Phil,
it just sounded like empty hype or self serving strutting.
I am sure this
book will have more info than the others because more was
available to the
author. But I would be a lot more
interested in the part
II of the
letters.
Jerry, I know
these guys seem to be jealous of you and are always trying to
get your goat or
try to make their camp look good at the expense of others,
but don't let it
bother you.
The thing is
their product (Kerouac) is a good product and I don't see why
they have such an
inferiority complex and try to compensate by seeming to
want to make
themselves look better than others.
I doubt the
author feels this way and assume the publishing house will be
professional in
the marketing and presentation of the book.
And Phil, I do
appreciate (and think most here also do) the info about the
book's
publication date.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: buddhism
- kerouac graffiti
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980219081214.16582B-100000@calcna.ab.ca>
References:
buongiorno amici
beat,
in "The
Scripture of the Golden Eternity" by Jack Kerouac
there's a drawing
made by Robert La Vigne picturing Jack
while's reading
(NY,1970). JK has around his neck a necklace
with a rood
(perhaps a rosary, the same blessed by the pope?).
it's a strange
(jack was 34 when wrote the "Scripture") way
to underline his
catholic background anyhow the thounghts goes
to the
buddhism...
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:32:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
spelling mistakes
and all, you made my day. how nice to sit down with a cup
of coffee and
read that old friend again. yesterday, i searched and
temporarily
misplaced my copy of _the wasteland and other poemes_ which
contains the
prufrock.
thanks
marie
>
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:37:15 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: goodbye
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
derek
i hope yr here
long enough to get this
i never have been
able to get thru to you using the e mail addresses you
provide, and for
some reason it takes a week or ten days for my mail to
be returned,
instead of the usual several minutes.
others may be having
that problem too
thanks for
introducing me to this group
see yez around
the campus
tkc
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:41:37 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 20
Feb 1998 09:28:47...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:28:47 +0100 with subject "buddhism -
kerouac
graffiti" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (252
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:46:47 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: neal cassady
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> > From:
susie sinor <susie_sinor@HOTMAIL.COM>
> > To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >
Subject: neal cassady
> > Date:
Thursday, February 19, 1998 6:01 PM
just do a net
search under his name, you'll get to levi asher's great
site, the
pranksters' site, and a buncha other stuff, theres even a site
with some writing
of his.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:57:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:34 AM
2/19/98 PST, you wrote:
> i was
wondering if anyone knew where i could get the text to the
>"prufuck"
(sp?) poem, i have been told it's the greatest thing since
>sliced
bread...
>
>-julian
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>Plug the name
into a search engine on your browser, and you will
probably find it,
as I found Howl the day Ginsberg died.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:59:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Gia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 05:08 AM
2/19/98 PST, you wrote:
> i was
wondering if anyone saw the hbo special on "gia"...the late 70s,
>>early 80s
model...?
>>they read
some of her poetry, and depicted much of her life...she's
>>probably,
no, she IS the most beat model i've ever heard of...
>>-julian
>>
>>ps, also,
in the way of movies...did anyone see 'the last temptation of
>>christ'?
>>
>>i think
it's shock factor alone had a beat feel to it...that, and david
>>bowie was
in it...*g*
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>I saw it two
weeks ago and don't remember a thing.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:05:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Gia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
canadian film,
jesus of montreal takes the gold in my eyes.
mc
mike rice wrote:
> At 05:08 AM
2/19/98 PST, you wrote:
> > i was
wondering if anyone saw the hbo special on "gia"...the late 70s,
>
>>early 80s model...?
> >>they
read some of her poetry, and depicted much of her life...she's
>
>>probably, no, she IS the most beat model i've ever heard of...
>
>>-julian
> >>
> >>ps,
also, in the way of movies...did anyone see 'the last temptation of
>
>>christ'?
> >>
> >>i
think it's shock factor alone had a beat feel to it...that, and david
>
>>bowie was in it...*g*
> >>
> >>______________________________________________________
> >>Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
>
>______________________________________________________
> >Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >I saw it
two weeks ago and don't remember a thing.
>
> Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
peent@cyber2.servtech.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:15:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Tim Gallaher
wrote:
>I doubt the
author feels this way and assume the publishing house will be
>professional
in the marketing and presentation of the book.
What Phil sent
was a press release from St. Martin's Press, so I think it
shows the angle
they're using to promote the book. Does seem a bit
sensational. The
PR doesn't make me want to rush out and buy it when it's
released.
Michael
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:45:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message dated
2/20/98 5:20:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
peent@SERVTECH.COM
writes:
<< Tim
Gallaher wrote:
>I doubt the author feels this way and
assume the publishing house will be
>professional in the marketing and
presentation of the book.
What Phil sent was a press release from St.
Martin's Press, so I think it
shows the angle they're using to promote the
book. Does seem a bit
sensational. The PR doesn't make me want to
rush out and buy it when it's
released.
Michael >>
The angle of
promotion is to aim directly at the core of what mass-market
America will snap
up. We KNOW by now that screaming purple
headlines about
sexual
involvement with others (males, females, cute sheep, or Mother Thumb
and the Sisters
of Mercy) will fly off the shelves.
That's what a publishing
company wants to
do, sell "units".
I'm just glad
that there is an audience for JK and others, and that new
material is
forthcoming. My guess is that the author
has little say in
promotional
decisions. Lurid promotion does not
necessarily indicate a lurid
book. Wait for the thing, give it a read, then
decide if it's any good.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:23:12 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dr Rockit
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization: D
for Doctor
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> buongiorno
amici beat,
>
> in "The
Scripture of the Golden Eternity" by Jack Kerouac
> there's a
drawing made by Robert La Vigne picturing Jack
> while's
reading (NY,1970). JK has around his neck a necklace
> with a rood
(perhaps a rosary, the same blessed by the pope?).
> it's a
strange (jack was 34 when wrote the "Scripture") way
> to underline
his catholic background anyhow the thounghts goes
> to the
buddhism...
>
> saluti,
> Rinaldo.
> -------
Hi to all,
I *personally* try
not to give too much attention to the Catholic/
Buddhist/Caycean/whatever
influences on J.K. or N.C.-life. Sure,
and especially in
Jack's case, it was important in every way he
lived his life
but there's this saying
_They say there's
just enough religion in the world to make men
hate one another but not enough to make them
love_
That's my
*opinion*.
Sincerely,
--Thomas
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:51:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
My guess is that the author has little say in
>promotional
decisions. Lurid promotion does not
necessarily indicate a lurid
>book. Wait for the thing, give it a read, then
decide if it's any good.
>Dennis
Well said. Geez!
I haven't posted because I'm so sick of the petty bullshit
with "sides
and camps". How could anyone say I was trying to
goad anyone into
anything. Christ, all I did was post a press release. I
have never had a
bad word to say about Gerry's book. Give me a break. Now I
remember why I
haven't posted anything for weeks. You guys could turn a
bible reading
into an estate war. You act like I wrote the F..... book. I
won't bother
posted any more beat news any more. It's too much of a hassle.
Phil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:03:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Pic and Satori
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I picked up a
copy of Satori in Paris and Pic today for seven dollars, off
the street and in
good condition. On the back of the book, theres a blurb
that says
"Jack Kerouac was the father and presiding spirit of the Beat
Generation".
Im not so sure about that. I think there were many fathers
to the BG, if
there were any at all...
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:04:00 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I must agree
with the love of my life. *GRIN* I personally abhor
>Catholicism
for all its violence and hatred
Sara this isn't a
knock or put down but an attempt to communicate; I don't
think you know
how bigoted and prejudiced this statement is.
Also I don't
think you know
much about the history of other religions if you are to make
this distinction
about Catholicism).
>and think
Edgar Cayce was a
>quack
I agree here.
I write this to
you becaue I think you are speaking about of lack of
awareness rather
than any malice, if no there'd be no point in trying to
communicate this.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:04:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Moloch
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I saw a book
called "Moloch" today by Henry Miller. Is this any relation
to AG"s use
of the word in his poem, titled the same?
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:08:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Tim Gallaher
wrote:
>
>>I doubt
the author feels this way and assume the publishing house will be
>>professional
in the marketing and presentation of the book.
>
>What Phil
sent was a press release from St. Martin's Press, so I think it
>shows the angle
they're using to promote the book. Does seem a bit
>sensational.
The PR doesn't make me want to rush out and buy it when it's
>released.
Yeah, that was
exactly the feeling I got: that I didn't want to go out and
buy it.
>
>Michael
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:49:50 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
February 20, 1998
Phil Chaput
writes:
>Well said.
Geez! I haven't posted because I'm so sick of the petty bullshit
>with
"sides and camps". How could anyone say I was trying to
>goad anyone
into anything.
Sorry if I overreacted, but for months
I've been reading the posts
of Mr. Maher and
his cohorts, to the effect that Mr. Amburn's new Kerouac
biography is
going to "demolish" MEMORY BABE, etc.
Now I have nothing
against Mr.
Amburn, and I will make my judgment on his Kerouac biography
AFTER I read it,
not before, as any intelligent person would.
But forgive me if I have to laugh, when
Mr. Chaput appears with his
tone of "oh
gosh! I never heard such exciting
revelations about Kerouac!"
and everything
that is mentioned, the sexual conflicts, the spiritual
conflicts, is
gone over in great detail in my book, which I began twenty
years before Mr.
Amburn started his.
Gregory Corso used to tell me:
"Credit the daddies." That's
all I
ask, fellas, with
all your allegiance to John Sampas and all your talk of
"reducing
MEMORY BABE to rubble."
--Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:51:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
dawn i just
finished my reply, and then el nino ate it. i'll write again
tomorrow.
mc
Dawn Zarubnicky
wrote:
> Marie...
>
> I'm
wondering if you could expand on your TS Eliot post..
> What about
Eliot's work appeals to you?...
>
> In class
I've been forced to read Prufrock and Wasteland more than
> a few times,
and it's never appealed to me. Am I missing something?
> It seems so
cold and empty and obscure to me...like Eliot is cramming all
> these
references into one poem to let us know how "intelligent" he is
> and what he
knows....I'm sure I'm probably in the minority with my
> opinion
because I have been told numerous times Eliot is the standard
> by which
other modern poets are measured....
>
> Can anyone
enlighten me?
>
> Dawn
> PS...I do
like the "coffee spoons" line though and love the Crash Test
> Dummies
song....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:56:01 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
stephanie, you
are truly amazing. add to what stephanie says, read the images,
like the sky as a
patient on the table, the fog as a cat, wondrously written and
never just for
effect.
i bow to you,
stephanie
and may not need
to send another reply, as you have gotten a mindfull of
information here.
mc
Zucchini4@AOL.COM
wrote:
> In a message
dated 98-02-20 16:13:38 EST, you write:
>
> << In
class I've been forced to read Prufrock and Wasteland more than
> a few times, and it's never appealed to me.
Am I missing something?
> It seems so cold and empty and obscure to
me...like Eliot is cramming all
> these references into one poem to let us know
how "intelligent" he is
> and what he knows....I'm sure I'm probably in
the minority with my
> opinion because I have been told numerous
times Eliot is the standard
> by which other modern poets are measured....
>
> Can anyone enlighten me?
>
> Dawn >>
>
> Forget about
the references. :) A poet friend of mine (makes me sound so
>
sophisticated doesn't it?) sent me this poem, saying it had changed her life
> (I assume in
inspiring her to write). The only explanation was:
>
> "In the
room women come and go,
> Talking of
Michelangelo.
>
> He's basicly
saying that Michelangelo has achieved a kind of immortality that
> Eliot
himself will never reach..."
>
> So I read it
and loved it, and we all lived happily ever after. I didn't even
> know it was
that crammed w/allusions. Now I'm going to have to go find a book
> of criticism
or something truly un fun like that.
>
> Personally,
it just spoke to me. It's such a universal experience- death and
> your own
failures, the acceptance of your imperfection, and the desperation
> that
accompanies the passing of your life... And I'm only 15, not a lot of my
> life has
gone by. But it's the whole theme of "growing up"... we all think
> we'll grow up
to be beautiful loved famous people... But the women will keep
> talking
about michelangelo, we are not prophets, the mermaids will not sing
> for us, and
finally we will wake from these dreams, our arms and legs will be
> thin, we'll
drown.... Etc.
>
> It's not the
type of style I'm usually into either... certainly not as fanatic
> as AG or JK
and their buddies. But by the end, the very simplicity of each
> phrase is
heartbreaking. "Do I dare to eat a peach?" Who would of thought a
> line like that
could have such an effect?
>
> Of course
now you all are going to think I'm really stupid, because everyone's
> *studied*
the poem, and I probably got everything wrong. *sigh*
>
> --Stephanie
> (who tried
really hard)
>
> ps- here's
an odd WSB refernce for you. I'm reading this book on writing,
> "Bird
by Bird" by [someone] Lamotte, and she's talking about all the little
> critics in
her head as she tries to write, and they're all stereotypes,
> until...
Something about how (in her head, mind you) William Burroughs is
> either
dozing or shooting up because she has the "intelligence and spark of a
>
houseplant."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:20:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NEWS ON NEW KEROUAC BIOGRAPHY
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
no, wait, phil,
come back....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:27:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pic and Satori
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
seems it would be
more appropriate to say the beat phenomena was an
illegitimate
child.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:39:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> >I must
agree with the love of my life. *GRIN* I personally abhor
>
>Catholicism for all its violence and hatred
>
> Sara this
isn't a knock or put down but an attempt to communicate; I don't
> think you
know how bigoted and prejudiced this statement is. Also I don't
> think you
know much about the history of other religions if you are to make
> this
distinction about Catholicism).
>
> >and
think Edgar Cayce was a
> >quack
>
> I agree
here.
>
> I write this
to you becaue I think you are speaking about of lack of
> awareness
rather than any malice, if no there'd be no point in trying to
> communicate
this.
sara, i agree with
you "I personally abhor Catholicism for all its
violence and
hatred" and disagree with timothy, i don't agree with
either of you
about cayce but i only think these
things because i know
what i am talking
about rather than being simply misinformed.
I don't
think that having
these opinions are malicious. No more than I think
that timothys
opinions are formed to be malicious. I
was surprised at
Williams
tolerance for catholicism , he had deeper problems with hating
truman for
dropping the bombs.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:52:37 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Catholicism, whatta can o'
worms....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:05 PM
2/19/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Timothy: I
was raised Catholic, and spent 14 years of my life in Catholic
>schools. I
know more than I want to about the Catholic religion. Yes, OK,
>many other
religions' histories are bloody, but the
history of Catholicism
>is by far the
bloodiest.
This is untrue.
Look at history, and you'll see what I'm
talking
>about. To say
that there is no "hatred" in the Catholic religion
Who said this?
>however,
>is naïve.
These are people who think gays deserve to die if they want to
>love each
other.
This is a slur and
distortion.
>These are
people who believe that an innocent newborn
>baby, if not
baptized, will "burn in Hell."
This statement is
not 100% accurate and even given its' acceptance this
particular belief
has not led to the violence you rightly disdain.
>For the above
reasons, I have
>no respect
for Catholicism.
No respect for
catholicism is a harsh enough statement in that it is so
absolute, but my
impression was of a pronounced hatred rather than a lack of
respect. Lack of respect and hatred/animosity are two
different things.
Like I said I
wrote the reply because I thought you were worth it. I
wouldn't even
bother to make the effort with a died in the wool racist or
religious bigot.
I used to have
similar opinions and bigotries about religion.
It is very
easy and
politically correct to have these views.
But I think they limit us
and most
importantly are not accurate and are marks of prejudice and bigotry
as much as is
racism or anti-semitism.
I don't know that
you are really interested in examining these questions
that come to my
mind about your anti-catholicism. I'm
not trying to insult
you or start a
fight. It's just that it pains me to see
people hold these
shortsighted
views because I was in the same boat for a long time as well.
But the fact that Kerouac was sorta' Catholic
>has no impact
on the quality and beauty of his writing. That's all I was
>saying.--Sara
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:05:38 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re:
buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 12:39 PM
2/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>>
>> >I
must agree with the love of my life. *GRIN* I personally abhor
>>
>Catholicism for all its violence and hatred
>>
>> Sara
this isn't a knock or put down but an attempt to communicate; I don't
>> think
you know how bigoted and prejudiced this statement is. Also I don't
>> think
you know much about the history of other religions if you are to make
>> this
distinction about Catholicism).
>>
>> >and
think Edgar Cayce was a
>>
>quack
>>
>> I agree
here.
>>
>> I write
this to you becaue I think you are speaking about of lack of
>>
awareness rather than any malice, if no there'd be no point in trying to
>>
communicate this.
>
>
>sara, i agree
with you "I personally abhor Catholicism for all its
>violence and
hatred" and disagree with timothy, i don't agree with
>either of you
about cayce but i only think these
things because i know
>what i am
talking about rather than being simply misinformed.
Interestingly
that was the point I was making about Sara's statement to her,
so I will take
this point well. At the same time I want
to point out that
thinking someone
is a quck is very different than abhorring him or her.
I think to abhor
Catholicism for its' violence and hatred can only be to
ignore its'
charity and love.
I abhor the
violence and hatred done in the name of Catholicism and every
other major
religion. I respect and (I don't know
the opposite word for
abhor--but that's
the word I would use here so I'll use...)love the charity
and love that has
been done under the influence of catholicsm and also under
the influence of
every other major religion.
I think to abhor
Catholicism for its' violence and hatred is somewhat
logical and
reasonable, but one must then have to abhor all religions for
the same reasons.
This leads to atheism. But then to see
the violence and
hatred
perpetuated by atheists leaves one nowhere.
I always felt if
Kerouac had lived he would be helping out Mother Teresa and
others like her
rather than hanging out with whatever new trend was going on.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:10:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matt Sanford <Mato15@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: neal cassady
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<A HREF="http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/NealCassady.html">Neal
Cassady
</A>
Here's a good
websight that might help you. It is
mostly a biography of his
life involved
with other writers such as Kerouac
Matt
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:23:17 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glamorous Hooligan
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization: UK
Subs
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
> I always
felt if Kerouac had lived he would be helping out Mother > Teresa and
> others like
her rather than hanging out with whatever new trend was > going
on.
I'm sorry man,
but this has got me *rolling on the floor*.
I'll try and
write a *meaningful* and *respectful* reply when
I got all of my
senses back.
--Thomas
_listening to
Tricky's Brand new You're Retro_
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:44:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
Comments: To:
thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:23 PM
2/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
>> I always
felt if Kerouac had lived he would be helping out Mother >
Teresa and
>> others
like her rather than hanging out with whatever new trend was > going
> on.
>
>I'm sorry
man, but this has got me *rolling on the floor*.
>I'll try and
write a *meaningful* and *respectful* reply when
>I got all of
my senses back.
>
>
--Thomas
>
Do that.
Keep in mind,
what did Kerouac do when around 1959 he actually had some money?
Also remember if
Kerouac lived he would have cleaned up his act in terms of
drinking.
>_listening to
Tricky's Brand new You're Retro_
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by skycorp.skynet.be id
VAA24584
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:58:21 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glamorous Hooligan
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization: UK
Subs
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Catholicism, whatta can o'
worms....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> At 11:05 PM
2/19/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >Timothy:
I was raised Catholic, and spent 14 years of my life in Catholic
> >schools.
I know more than I want to about the Catholic religion. Yes, OK,
> >many
other religions' histories are bloody,
but the history of Catholicism
> >is by
far the bloodiest.
>
> This is
untrue.
>
> Look at history, and you'll see what I'm
talking
> >about.
To say that there is no "hatred" in the Catholic religion
>
> Who said
this?
>
> >however,
> >is
naïve. These are people who think gays deserve to die if they want to
> >love
each other.
>
> This is a
slur and distortion.
>
> >These
are people who believe that an innocent newborn
> >baby, if
not baptized, will "burn in Hell."
>
> This
statement is not 100% accurate and even given its' acceptance this
> particular
belief has not led to the violence you rightly disdain.
>
> >For the
above reasons, I have
> >no
respect for Catholicism.
>
> No respect
for catholicism is a harsh enough statement in that it is so
> absolute,
but my impression was of a pronounced hatred rather than a lack of
>
respect. Lack of respect and
hatred/animosity are two different things.
>
> Like I said
I wrote the reply because I thought you were worth it. I
> wouldn't
even bother to make the effort with a died in the wool racist or
> religious
bigot.
>
> I used to
have similar opinions and bigotries about religion. It is very
> easy and
politically correct to have these views.
But I think they limit us
> and most
importantly are not accurate and are marks of prejudice and bigotry
> as much as
is racism or anti-semitism.
>
> I don't know
that you are really interested in examining these questions
> that come to
my mind about your anti-catholicism. I'm
not trying to insult
> you or start
a fight. It's just that it pains me to
see people hold these
> shortsighted
views because I was in the same boat for a long time as well.
>
> But the fact that Kerouac was sorta' Catholic
> >has no
impact on the quality and beauty of his writing. That's all I was
> >saying.--Sara
> >
> >
Mr Gallaher,
maybe Sara's
statement about having 'no respect' for Catholicism,
seems harsh to
you, but i would like to know about your own encounters
with the Catholic
Religion. Sara spent 14 years in
Catholic schools,
she must have
some idea what's she's talking about. It
pains you
people having
these 'shortsighted' views, well it pained her having
to go through 14
years of views of some kind, fed with a spoon &
abuse through a
medium called 'education', if you get my point.
We could get into
an endless discussion about which religion caused
the 'most' of
bloodshed & all. That would be just
stupid.
For instance: you
hear and see stories through the media almost
every day about
(muslim) fundamentalists blowing people up or
going on killing
sprees in villages, wasting everybody in them.
But when do you
ever hear anybody say on National tv the Pope
(Pope: God is
mother_head-check!) is a 'mass-murderer', yes
that's how far
I'll go, because the pope objects to condoms and all
those strong
religious African people listen & believe in that man
with hundreds of
thousands of people carrying the HIV-virus
with them. What is your *opinion* on that. That is my view
on the person
Catholic people believe to be 'their spiritual
leader'
blablabla. Anyway, I loathe any
fundamentalist religion,
so yes I'm an
atheist. Could you please explain
yourself when
you say ...to see
the violence and hatred perpetuated by atheists
leaves one
nowhere... So I'm nowhere then? Geez,
I'm smoking
a fat blunt and
thinking about the girl I love and maybe I am
'out there'... I
believe Mother Is Nature. I got beliefs.
But they got
nothing to with religion. They weren't
forced
upon me. I opened my eyes and felt the sun and saw the
moon
and heard the
birds and looked upon the stars and danced in
the rain... I
don't know what the f* I am, or who the f* I am,
but I believe our
whole life is a search for who we are...
I can't remember
who said it: but it was this:
'The only thing
that can be agreed upon, is that nothing can be
agreed
upon'. And to say atheism has caused
more violence/just
as much than any
religion, hell, it's caused LESS bloodshed than
all other
religions together.
> They say
there's just enough religion in the world to make men
> hate one
another, but not enough to make them love
--Respect,
--Thomas
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:06:28 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glamorous Hooligan
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization: UK
Subs
Subject: Mother Theresa
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
If Mr Theresa is
a Saint, then so is Malcolm X/Little/Malik el-Shabazz.
Cos I saw a
documentary on Mr Theresa and all I can remember is the
horror in her
'houses of death', because people that were dying on the
spot did not
receive enough/none at all medication, i do not remember,
and it had
nothing do with problems as to transportation/funds, but
with 'saint'
Mother Theresa's personal, Catholic, beliefs.
--'By
Any Means Necessary'
--Thomas
> getting by,
looking ahead, the day you die
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:22:05 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JSH <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Kerouac and Anti-Catholicism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I don't see how
anyone can defend Catholicism against the various
criticisms that
have been made here. Even if I were Christian (which I
am not), there's
no Biblical, scriptural basis for ANY of the Catholic
trappings like
Popes, Bishops, the Vatican Bank, Mass, the Monstrance,
the Eucharist,
the occult-like rituals and wacky pantheon of quasi-pagan
Saints.......Catholic
doctrine clearly states that the Pope is "Altus
Christus",
meaning 'another Christ', and that the Pope's word is equal
to that of
Christ's, as he supposedly has a direct hotline to God and
that anything the
Pope says or does is done at God's request. Anyone who
wants to believe
this, fine : it's still theoretically a free world. But
I believe it is a
trunkful of hard baloney.
Of course, if
you're not a Christian at all, it's ALL baloney.
Kerouac turned
from Catholicism to Buddhism, as we all know. But many do
not seem to
realize that at the end of his life, he had come full circle
and wandered
right back into the comfy arms of Catholicism, much like
Winston Smith's
last dying thought was how much he loved Big Brother. If
you are raised
strict Catholic, there is no way to completely get the
programming out
of your head. The same could be said for any religion,
of course, but
all my Catholic and former-Catholic friends are the ones
who have made the
observation to me. Kerouac was very depressed towards
the end, and
needed the warmth and familiarity of childhood memories,
home, and yes, the
Catholic mentality. And that's okay. Whatever gets
you through the
night, it's all right. I just wonder if Kerouac would
have gone back to
Buddhism had he lived, and regained some strength to
his psyche.
This is not the
place for a religious argument, of course. If someone
can find a
passage in the Bible that mentions Popes and such in it,
please point it
out to me, but otherwise, please withhold the urge to
clutter the list
with simplistic flames. I am speaking strictly
factually and
detached, I have no particular hatred for Catholicism - as
a Voodooist
myself, Catholic imagery is often appropriated, and I think
Catholicism is a
very pretty religion, creating much beautiful art and
architecture -
but I still have to be the prick who points out that the
miraculous
apparition of the Virgin Mary on that woman's burrito looks
more like the
Zig-Zag Man to me.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
a vote for me is
a vote for cheesecake
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[149.151.190.53]
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:33:02 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ahoy there,
i must say that
this was what kerouac was trying to change in everyone.
Buddhism, shamanism,
catholicism, and on and on and on.
wasn't JK tryin
to say they were
all basically the same? ya'll keep
talkin bout the
horrors and
violence and such of catholicism, but that's the people in
the
religion. has nothin to do with the
religion itself. They're all
pretty much the
same if you ask me.
Al
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:03:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mother Theresa
Comments: To:
thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 09:06 PM
2/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
>If Mr Theresa
is a Saint, then so is Malcolm X/Little/Malik el-Shabazz.
>Cos I saw a
documentary on Mr Theresa and all I can remember is the
>horror in her
'houses of death', because people that were dying on the
>spot did not
receive enough/none at all medication, i do not remember,
>and it had
nothing do with problems as to transportation/funds, but
>with 'saint'
Mother Theresa's personal, Catholic, beliefs.
You've opened up
my eyes. These poor souls should have
gone to Cedars Sinai
Bombay where they
would have received free first class medical treatment.
I wonder why they
didn't?
>
> --'By Any
Means Necessary'
>
>
--Thomas
>
>> getting
by, looking ahead, the day you die
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Emc.Fedex.Com:
022098:1
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:04:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Zarubnicky
<dmzarubnicky@FEDEX.COM>
Subject: Re: neal cassady
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
You also may want
to do a Neal Cassady search in newspapers and periodicals
and see the
"mainstream medias" perception of Cassady and the Pranksters
and such at the
time...could make for a great comparison (?)
Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:05:15 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Catholicism, whatta can o'
worms....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:58 PM
2/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
Mr. Van Moorte,
thanks for this
respose. I know where you are
coming. I see myself 10 or
15 years ago in
this sort of viewpoint and visceral feeling.
>Mr Gallaher,
>
>maybe Sara's
statement about having 'no respect' for Catholicism,
>seems harsh
to you
This first
sentence is wrong. I made it clear that
a statement about having
no respect is
quite different than abhorring something.
I have no major
problem with such
a statement about having no respect.
There are definately
a lot of things
about Catholicism I don't have respect for also.
>, but i would
like to know about your own encounters
>with the
Catholic Religion. Sara spent 14 years
in Catholic schools,
>she must have
some idea what's she's talking about.
I am not
Catholic. I am glad to point this out in
that people won't think
I'm biased (one
way or the other).
And once agian, I
never said she did not know what she was talking about in
terms of
Catholicism and in fact pointed out that in many ways her feelings
were rational and
logical.
>It pains you
>people having
these 'shortsighted' views, well it pained her having
>to go through
14 years of views of some kind, fed with a spoon &
>abuse through
a medium called 'education', if you get my point.
>We could get
into an endless discussion about which religion caused
>the 'most' of
bloodshed & all. That would be just
stupid.
>For instance:
you hear and see stories through the media almost
>every day
about (muslim) fundamentalists blowing people up or
>going on
killing sprees in villages, wasting everybody in them.
>But when do
you ever hear anybody say on National tv the Pope
>(Pope: God is
mother_head-check!) is a 'mass-murderer', yes
>that's how
far I'll go, because the pope objects to condoms and all
>those strong
religious African people listen & believe in that man
>with hundreds
of thousands of people carrying the HIV-virus
>with
them. What is your *opinion* on that.
I generally think
mass murdereres are people who kill many people.
No one has to
listen to the Pope.
But at the same
time, the Pope stressing not only not to use birth control
but to only have
sex when you are married and only with the person you are
maried to.
If all the people
in the world followed the Pope's suggestions to the
letter, sexually
transmitted HIV would be ended.
So maybe you are
a mass murderer for not recommending what the Pope says.
(I don't think
you are but that is your logic).
>That is my
view
>on the person
Catholic people believe to be 'their spiritual
>leader'
blablabla. Anyway, I loathe any
fundamentalist religion,
>so yes I'm an
atheist. Could you please explain
yourself when
>you say ...to
see the violence and hatred perpetuated by atheists
>leaves one
nowhere...
What I mean it is
leads to cynicism which breeds a lack of respect and
bigotry toward
groups you disagree with.
>So I'm
nowhere then? Geez, I'm smoking
>a fat blunt
and thinking about the girl I love and maybe I am
>'out
there'... I believe Mother Is Nature. I
got beliefs.
>But they got
nothing to with religion. They weren't
forced
>upon me.
And why do you
think other people have beliefs forced on them?
For example, Sara
here would be the perfect example of someone who had
catholic beliefs
forced on her and we know her opinion.
Clearly all the
force and
authority of the Catholic church has not forced her into anything.
She has her own
views.
No one can have a
belief forced on them.
>I opened my
eyes and felt the sun and saw the moon
>and heard the
birds and looked upon the stars and danced in
>the rain... I
don't know what the f* I am, or who the f* I am,
>but I believe
our whole life is a search for who we are...
>I can't
remember who said it: but it was this:
>'The only
thing that can be agreed upon, is that nothing can be
>agreed
upon'. And to say atheism has caused
more violence/just
>as much than
any religion, hell, it's caused LESS bloodshed than
>all other
religions together.
>
No. This is important. I agree that scorecards aren't really productive
because whatever
form hatred and murder and genocide come in they are all
the same in their
reprehensibility.
But atheism has
probably killed more than all religions combined. Communist
China and Soviet
Russia amount to 100 million and make Hitler look like a
piker. That is not even including Pol Pot and the
Vietnamese etc...
Part of this is
due to that the age of the atheist despots has been the 20th
century where
there were more people to kill and more modern ways to get
that job
done. The old inquisitors didn't have
the population base or the
technology that
the 20th century despots have had.
I also, am
somewhat disapointed in that I tought you were going to react to
the Kerouac and
Mother Teresa line of mine. I thought
that is what made you
laugh.
(Oh I spoke too
soon. I see. Mother Teresa is bad.
And I have a fair
amount of respect for Malcom X, but fail to see the
connection or
analogy between him and Mother Teresa.
Malcom X was a social
political leader
and like almost all of them was influenced by his religious
beliefs. Mother Teresa was a care giver. Bith these sorts of people have
roles to play in
the world. If you are looking for
non-Catholic "saints"
they are out
there. I am not suprised you couldn't
think of any).
Take care,
we are all
friends on the beat l (I hope at least) and also I don't want to
clutter up the
beat-l with this semi-political
talk. It may be ranging
outside the
shpere of what others might want to read.
>> They say
there's just enough religion in the world to make men
>> hate one
another, but not enough to make them love
>
>
--Respect,
>
>
--Thomas
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:11:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: To clarify
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This is from Paul
he seems to be having some trouble posting.
>To the Beat-L
Naysayers and Nicosia disciples:
>
>
>Let me
reiterate my point about DiPrima since it seems that I am being
>grossly
misquoted. I simply stated that:
>
>a.) Many
facets of the alleged "Beat" Generation may have been
"beat" for
>their own
reasons but did not comprise a "generation".
>
>That was the
origin of this thread.
>
>b.) DiPrima,
a poet in her own right (of which I never detested)does not
>reside in the
same classification as Kerouac, as Burroughs, as Ginsberg, as
>Corso, etc.
I'm sorry...she doesn't.But neither does Bob Dylan, Michael
>McClure,
Charles Bukowski etc. They are artists in their own right.I further
>stated that
Kerouac, as a 20th Century American author can be assumed the
>right to
stand on his own since all those other writers in the alleged
>"Beat"
generation owe their allegiance to him for putting them on the map.
>That, I said,
was and is a FACT.
>
>c.) DiPrima
wrote of her own free will of her sexual conquests. I stated
>that she only
have had to had sex with Kerouac (in 1957) at a time when he
>had pretty
much his choice of women. I made the mistake of classifying her
>in a
derogatory way but...and I will always say this, existing photos of the
>time show her
to be slovenly and unkempt. "Beat" you might say. I stated
>further that
Kerouac was either a.) drunk or b.) desperate. Not a one of you
>know
desperation? Maybe she was desperate too....but the primary documents
>tell a bigger
truth. Kerouac kept a list in his archive of all the women he
>had had sex
with and how many times each. That is my proof. Since he used
>this for his
own private reasons why would he lie? Kerouac wrote that he had
>sex with her,
ONCE. What does that say about the degree of that
>relationship?
Is he lying? If he is, then why? Shame? Modesty? (they are
>notes to
himself so why?) and...quite frankly who cares? This has no bearing
>on her
talents as a poet.
>
>To put this
in another manner...in a way that won't bring down the house(or
>it may
because there is always someone who takes things out of context and
>raises an
objection). What would you say if a young, pretty woman had had
>sex with
Charles Bukowski (about twenty years ago in his drunken, slovenly
>prime) for
one night? Could this be true love? I would say if she had sex
>with Bukowski
she would have had to be a pig herself. He was a slovenly,
>nasty,
misogynistic pig but yet, at moments a great, insightful writer.
>
>I think if
you have an opinion on this list your doomed.
>
>I in no way
meant that women poets, writers, artists were inferior to male
>writers. That
is the biggest misquote I've ever heard. As someone who had
>majored in
literature for five years...it is the biggest load of bull I've
>ever read. Be
smart and raise an intelligent argument if your going to
>object. I
have no reason to apologize to DiPrima no more than I would
>apologize to
Ginsberg for pushing his libido in our faces for the greater
>part of his
career.
>
>
>Sincerely,
Paul of TKQ.....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Emc.Fedex.Com:
022098:1
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:13:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Zarubnicky
<dmzarubnicky@FEDEX.COM>
Subject: Marie:
T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie...
I'm wondering if
you could expand on your TS Eliot post..
What about
Eliot's work appeals to you?...
In class I've
been forced to read Prufrock and Wasteland more than
a few times, and
it's never appealed to me. Am I missing something?
It seems so cold
and empty and obscure to me...like Eliot is cramming all
these references
into one poem to let us know how "intelligent" he is
and what he
knows....I'm sure I'm probably in the minority with my
opinion because I
have been told numerous times Eliot is the standard
by which other
modern poets are measured....
Can anyone
enlighten me?
Dawn
PS...I do like
the "coffee spoons" line though and love the Crash Test
Dummies song....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:14:47 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:48 PM
2/19/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I see what
you're saying, but I don't recall any Buddhist Inquisition or
>Buddhist
Crusades.... Or have I missed something?
Actually yes you
have. The history of Asia is filled with
war and
inquisition just
as is the history of europe and I am sure the history of
Africa. The question then becomes are these due to
the particluar religion
of that area or
is whatever religion exists at a particular time and place
used in the
universal human quest for power? I think
more the latter.
>I'm not
saying that ALL
>religions are
evil, it just seems that MANY of them do way more harm than
>good!
Remember the Branch Davidians? Heaven's Gate? Tellya what, my
>grandfather
is a minister, and he just got thrown off the elder council of
>his church
for STALKING A 30 YEAR OLD WOMAN! My grandma is constantly
>finding
Pentouse and Hustler and Big Butt and who knows what else amidst
>his
Bible-stuff. He also grabbed my ass when I was 13 years old, and is a
>racist. Then
there's Jim Bakker, Oral Roberts and his 900-foot Jesus, Jimmy
>"sob,
sniffle" Swaggart, and all those other obnoxious dudes with bad
>hairdos.
--Sara
>
Yes, these guys
give religion a bad rep. I have always
felt that charlatans
like these do a
lot more harm for Christianity than any atheist could ever
hope to.
>t 12:33 PM
2/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>ahoy
there,
>>
>>i must
say that this was what kerouac was trying to change in everyone.
>>Buddhism,
shamanism, catholicism, and on and on and on.
wasn't JK tryin
>>to say
they were all basically the same? ya'll
keep talkin bout the
>>horrors
and violence and such of catholicism, but that's the people in
>>the
religion. has nothin to do with the
religion itself. They're all
>>pretty
much the same if you ask me.
>>
>>Al
>>
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:19:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
Comments: To:
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I appreciate
Sherry and Al saying very succintly what I've been trying to say.
I will make one
comment though. I don't think that an
analysis of
population
dynamics bears out the claim that Catholicism is a major factor
in so-called
over-population. The areas of massive
population growth are
non-catholic
countries. Conversely traditional
Catholic countries like
France, Spain,
Ireland and others are not experiencing population growth.
I think
modernization and economic prosperity are related to the slow down
of population
growth as much as any thing.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Emc.Fedex.Com:
022098:1
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:22:49 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dawn Zarubnicky <dmzarubnicky@FEDEX.COM>
Subject: Catholism/Kerouac/Cassady/Cayce
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Putting aside any
personal feeling about religion...organized or otherwise..
I don't see how
you can read Kerouac's work and not be conscious of his
religious
upbringing (Catholic) and his later investigations into
Buddhism. Particularly because his work is so personal.
Also, Cayce was
such an important influence on Cassady and Kerouac's
relationship with
Cassady you can't disregard him. It
doesn't matter
what *you* feel
about Cayce, consider how Cassady was effected influenced
by Cayce.
If you don't
consider the "religious" influence of Catholism, Buddhism,
Cayce(ism) etc.
on the author, I think you are limiting your perspective.
Dawn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:35:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-20 16:13:38 EST, you write:
<< In class
I've been forced to read Prufrock and Wasteland more than
a few times, and it's never appealed to me. Am
I missing something?
It seems so cold and empty and obscure to
me...like Eliot is cramming all
these references into one poem to let us know
how "intelligent" he is
and what he knows....I'm sure I'm probably in
the minority with my
opinion because I have been told numerous
times Eliot is the standard
by which other modern poets are measured....
Can anyone enlighten me?
Dawn >>
Forget about the
references. :) A poet friend of mine (makes me sound so
sophisticated
doesn't it?) sent me this poem, saying it had changed her life
(I assume in
inspiring her to write). The only explanation was:
"In the room
women come and go,
Talking of
Michelangelo.
He's basicly
saying that Michelangelo has achieved a kind of immortality that
Eliot himself
will never reach..."
So I read it and
loved it, and we all lived happily ever after. I didn't even
know it was that
crammed w/allusions. Now I'm going to have to go find a book
of criticism or
something truly un fun like that.
Personally, it
just spoke to me. It's such a universal experience- death and
your own
failures, the acceptance of your imperfection, and the desperation
that accompanies
the passing of your life... And I'm only 15, not a lot of my
life has gone by.
But it's the whole theme of "growing up"... we all think
we'll grow up to
be beautiful loved famous people... But the women will keep
talking about
michelangelo, we are not prophets, the mermaids will not sing
for us, and
finally we will wake from these dreams, our arms and legs will be
thin, we'll
drown.... Etc.
It's not the type
of style I'm usually into either... certainly not as fanatic
as AG or JK and
their buddies. But by the end, the very simplicity of each
phrase is
heartbreaking. "Do I dare to eat a peach?" Who would of thought a
line like that
could have such an effect?
Of course now you
all are going to think I'm really stupid, because everyone's
*studied* the
poem, and I probably got everything wrong. *sigh*
--Stephanie
(who tried really
hard)
ps- here's an odd
WSB refernce for you. I'm reading this book on writing,
"Bird by
Bird" by [someone] Lamotte, and she's talking about all the little
critics in her
head as she tries to write, and they're all stereotypes,
until...
Something about how (in her head, mind you) William Burroughs is
either dozing or
shooting up because she has the "intelligence and spark of a
houseplant."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:44:54 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Glamorous Hooligan
<thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization: UK
Subs
Subject: Blunted Beatz
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
-=I GOT THE DEVIL
IN ME=-
up against the
wall
behaving like
DeNiro
Scorcese inna
Babylon
doin all my
enemies
bloodPressure
inna freefall
keep it movin ya
Gatta
keep it movin
catch
yer playing
yerself Jeru
da Damaja sounds
like me
Lilly playing with
my head
whatizit
awareness of
The Bomb inside
your brain
can you turn to
that?
its juz a problem
with my Thalamus
Dr Benway a
presription please
let them nEuroNs
transmit
that's the way
this GOVERNMENT
planned it stop
at the
BORDER MY
PRECIOUS triptylamine
or whatever SS
black booted Reuptake
INHIBITOR just
get off the bomb
everything is
going to the beat
and have you ever
seen a BLUNT
needle inside
that bass boom
she wuvs me what
does that mean?
y'all ready to
have a party OUT THERE
i can't hear ya
them neurons jump
from A to B,
stinging pain somewhere
just dislocated
my insula let it go
red is my color
and green too
tho she's gonna
change that the race
is on but i won't
compete, say them
neurons i wanna
dial 911 doc
one week is all
we need to check
YOUR LUNGS please
hand them over
the only way to
enter's with gold
don't tell me you
cut yourself 48 times
and still managed
to miss the
artery The DOLLAR
is where it's at
it's a disease
like any other virus
is there anybody
out THERE?
to let me know
that i'm in HERE?
and if you know
that i'm in HERE?
could you get me
outta THERE?
and should i
rework this?
position the
flamethrower and
a steady
healthier happier satisfiction
god spellt
backwards is dog now
we all know there's
no such thing
as a coin cidence
Somebody
Act
Rapidly
Attention
It's
Leaving
Our
Vibrating
Exit,
Young,
Ophelia,
Ullyses
=-Tea-N-Toast-=
13 is my lucky
number
and 666 is my
funder
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[149.151.190.53]
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:53:21 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ya see
though. that's what i'm sayin. there're always gonna be bad
people from all
backgrounds and all different situations.
but the
religions
themselves aren't bad at all. it's the
people who believe in
them and
rationalize their own behaviors according to their misconstrued
interpretations
of their faith. the fact is, all the
religions point in
the same
direction.
AL
>I see what
you're saying, but I don't recall any Buddhist Inquisition
or
>Buddhist
Crusades.... Or have I missed something? I'm not saying that
ALL
>religions are
evil, it just seems that MANY of them do way more harm
than
>good!
Remember the Branch Davidians? Heaven's Gate? Tellya what, my
>grandfather
is a minister, and he just got thrown off the elder council
of
>his church
for STALKING A 30 YEAR OLD WOMAN! My grandma is constantly
>finding
Pentouse and Hustler and Big Butt and who knows what else
amidst
>his Bible-stuff.
He also grabbed my ass when I was 13 years old, and is
a
>racist. Then
there's Jim Bakker, Oral Roberts and his 900-foot Jesus,
Jimmy
>"sob,
sniffle" Swaggart, and all those other obnoxious dudes with bad
>hairdos.
--Sara
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: God is
Blanc.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802202114.NAA12622@hsc.usc.edu>
References:
"..come writers and critics who
prophecie with your pen..."
---bob dylan
buddha was an ancient warrior
san francesco was an ancient warrior
have a prayer for anybody
dont'hate!
yr life - yr life
isn't empty - isn't beautiful
visions of gerard
written january 56 (12 nites)
gerard a budding priest
but gerard wasn't a warrior
and God is Blanc d'or
le ciel ye tont blanc
la buona notte a
tutti,
Rinaldo.
--------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:02:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Kerouac's Catholicism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Let's not go too
far off the beaten track with a discussion of the pros and con
s of
Catholicism. I'm sure there are more
appropriate lists for such discussio
ns. Of course, remarks on Catholicism as it
relates to Kerouac and the Beats i
s fair game.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:10:23 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 21
Feb 1998 00:00:11...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:00:11 +0100 with subject "God is
Blanc." has been
successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (252
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:42:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patti Meyer
<chattypatty@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: new member
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello All, I just
wanted to introduce myself as a new member. I have to
admit that I am a
rookie in the Beat Generation stuff, but very
enthusiastic. I
found this list after I read "Dharma Bums" by J.K. I
really liked the
book, and want to know more about the Beat Gen.
thanks.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:03:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i have to agree
with dawn. i apparently missed the boat
on the ts eliot
craze. prufrock never amazed me.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:14:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
so i heard that
bob dylan was inspired to write by jack's mexico city blues.
first off, i
would like to say that i've read the first couple of choruses in
the book and was
umm..confused by them. can anyone shed
any light?
secondly, i am a
massive dylan fan, and was wondering if any one was aware of
any beat
references in his songs, as i've never noticed any.
and third, i
figure bob probably met at least some of the beats in his life
time, but i don't
know for sure. i figured you guys
might. any clue?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:50:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Carly Earnshaw
wrote:
> secondly, i
am a massive dylan fan, and was wondering if any one was
aware of
> any beat
references in his songs, as i've never noticed any.
> and third, i
figure bob probably met at least some of the beats in his
life
> time, but i
don't know for sure. i figured you guys
might. any clue?
Well, that's
Ginsberg in the photo on the back of "Bringing It All Back
Home," and
Ginsberg was a member of Dylan's Rolling Thunder Revue in the
mid-70's (there's
a great photo of Bob and Ginsberg sitting at Kerouac's
grave and
singing).
Dylan's
"Desolation Row" was written around the time he is supposed to have
been reading
Jack's "Desolation Angels," and much of the imagery and turns
of phrase can be
seen to be influenced by Jack.
And that's just a
start, I'm sure you'll hear about a lot more...
Regards,
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
abamzvbh@pop.flash.net
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:51:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: adam zerbinopoulos
<abamzvbh@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
maybe i can help
a little, though just a little.
i'm not sure
about beat references in songs, except one possible theory
involving his
song 'subterranean homesick blues', though i've never really
listened all that
closely... maybe someone else can be more illuminating
than that.
i do know that
bob dylan has his picture taken w/allen circa 1975 at jack's
grave. i guess that means they somehow know each
other. (i saw the
picture in
_angelheaded hipster_)
a.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:56:32 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Adam wrote:
> i'm not sure
about beat references in songs, except one possible theory
> involving
his song 'subterranean homesick blues', though i've never
really
> listened all
that closely... maybe someone else can be more illuminating
> than that.
Yeah, that
reminds me, Ginsberg lurks in the background of the promotional
film clip
produced for this song in 1965.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:07:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
okay, so here's
another bob dylan question. i should
preface this by saying,
i know a lot of
people don't consider bob dylan a beat.
and for those who
don't, please
excuse this.
my question is
actually based on rumor i heard that i am attempting to confirm
or refute. i friend told me that his song, "just
like a woman" is actually
about a sexual
incounter dylan had with a man. does any
one have any
responses to the
nature of its validity?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:33:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matt Sanford <Mato15@AOL.COM>
Subject: Hunter S. Thompson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone know
how or if Hunter S. Thompson was involved with the beat
writers. I know he always thought of himself as above
the beat movement, or
not involved with
it, but I was just curious if he actually did have some
connections to
some of the writers. Thanks...
Matt
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:28:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:14 PM 2/20/98
EST, you wrote:
>so i heard
that bob dylan was inspired to write by jack's mexico city blues.
>first off, i
would like to say that i've read the first couple of choruses in
>the book and
was umm..confused by them. can anyone
shed any light?
>secondly, i
am a massive dylan fan, and was wondering if any one was aware of
>any beat
references in his songs, as i've never noticed any.
>and third, i
figure bob probably met at least some of the beats in his life
>time, but i
don't know for sure. i figured you guys
might. any clue?
>
>I know Dylan
was in Lowell with Ginsberg in 1976 and that's when he took
the pictures at
Jack's grave. He also did some filming at the Grotto
(ref.Dr. Sax) for
his film Renaldo and Clara. I heard the story about Tony
Sampas driving
them up to the cemetery and they were listening to tapes of
Jack on the
drive. Phil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:32:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Well, as a lawyer
whose life is measured out in time slips, I appreciate
Eliot's
observation about the coffee spoons.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:37:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hunter S. Thompson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
above the beat
movement?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:58:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
so i heard that
bob dylan was inspired to write by jack's mexico city
blues.
> first off, i
would like to say that i've read the first couple of choruses in
> the book and
was umm..confused by them. can anyone
shed any light?
> secondly, i
am a massive dylan fan, and was wondering if any one was aware of
> any beat
references in his songs, as i've never noticed any.
> and third, i
figure bob probably met at least some of the beats in his life
> time, but i
don't know for sure. i figured you guys
might. any clue?
I know that he
(bd) invited william backstage when he played kc, and
william
went. I believe he knew allen first
p
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:05:00 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Carly wrote:
> okay, so
here's another bob dylan question. i
should preface this by
saying,
> i know a lot
of people don't consider bob dylan a beat.
and for those
who
> don't,
please excuse this.
> my question
is actually based on rumor i heard that i am attempting to
confirm
> or
refute. i friend told me that his song,
"just like a woman" is
actually
> about a
sexual encounter dylan had with a man.
does any one have any
> responses to
the nature of its validity?
Interesting! I always heard that "Just Like A
Woman" was written about
Andy Warhol
protege/model Edie...oh damn, can't think of her last name.
Anyway, she
pilled herself into oblivion in the end.
Another casualty of
the
"swinging 60's."
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:52:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Catholicism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 06:02 PM
2/20/98 EST, you wrote:
>Let's not go
too far off the beaten track with a discussion of the pros and con
>s of
Catholicism. I'm sure there are more
appropriate lists for such discussio
>ns. Of course, remarks on Catholicism as it
relates to Kerouac and the Beats i
>s fair game.
>
>
Bill -- It's only
recently that I have started to actually post
messages--and
already I've allowed my outspoken approach get me into hot
water--but here
we go again--(I'll try to be diplomatic)
I find it
interesting--and predictable--that the folks who want to attack
Catholicism are
the ones who had bad childhood experiences with it. It's
only natural, I
suppose. But in case you haven't noticed--and I'm sure you
have--anti-Catholicism
is the last "politically correct" type of bigotry
which is not
supposed to elicit anything more than raised eyebrows and a
smug,
condescending look on the part of the listener. I'm not accusing
anybody HERE of
doing that (heavens, no--!) --but let's face it--a lot of
people will NOT
be able to discuss JK's Cathlolicism without projecting
their personal
feelings onto the matter. For my own part--as you know--I am
married to a
Catholic and b being an atheist myself, I harbor no great love
for Catholic theology.
But I think I can be objective up to a point. Anyway,
its interesting
to note that JK's brand of Catholicism was a curious blend
of mysticism,
theism and sentimentality which was also very
traditional--even
staid. When Ginsberg was waxing poetic about the mystical
potentials of LSD
(after ingesting it at Leary's house) Kerouac's reply was
characteristic of
him ("Walking on water wasn't done in a day.") By which, I
guess, he meant
that there was no quick fix with respect to enlightenment,
although I think
he appreciated Ginsberg's desire to GET there.
My point is
this---a lot of the vitriol directed at JK's Roman Catholic
tendencies is
obviously coming from some other place than mere theoretical
disapproval. So
don't be surprised at it. I am curious, though--how far
afield can we
wander on this topic before what we say loses relevancy? This
isn't meant to be
a smart-ass question--I'd really like to know where the
focus should be.
If it is in the direction of literature--then I would have
to say that as
JK's life came to a close--his Cathlolicism grew stronger and
more fervent
(desperation, perhaps?) while his writing got worse and worse.
Of course, I
don't blame his Cathlolicism for that---but the link should be
explored--don't
you think? And, in all truth, I think that while you can't
call Kerouac a
traditional Catholic--neither can you call him a
"traditional"
Buddhist.
So if anybody out
there has any thoughts the link between JK's Catholicism
and his literary
aesthetic--imagery, spontaneous prose, religious
symbols--I'd like
to hear about it.
Thanks,
J.
Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:56:38 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jym Mooney wrote:
>
> Carly wrote:
>
> > okay,
so here's another bob dylan question. i
should preface this by
> saying,
> > i know
a lot of people don't consider bob dylan a beat. and
for those
> who
> > don't,
please excuse this.
> > my
question is actually based on rumor i heard that i am attempting to
> confirm
> > or
refute. i friend told me that his song,
"just like a woman" is
> actually
> > about a
sexual encounter dylan had with a man. does
any one have any
> >
responses to the nature of its validity?
>
>
Interesting! I always heard that
"Just Like A Woman" was written about
> Andy Warhol
protege/model Edie...oh damn, can't think of her last name.
> Anyway, she
pilled herself into oblivion in the end.
Another casualty of
> the
"swinging 60's."
>
> Jym
my impression is
that many of bob's songs are "about" so many things at
different layers
of meaning that saying it was "about X" or "about Y"
misses so much of
his art. an incident in life may have
been part of an
inspiration but
the writing tends to move in and out of the incidents
and by the end it
could be anyone's actions that the songs are "about".
this is some of
the beauty of his recent releases.
"Yesterday going too
fast - today
going too slow" is "about" some actual incident perhaps but
his mixture
universalizes in a way that -- at least for me -- one can
move into the
meaning to where the listener is included in what the
story of the song
is "about".
and of course,
the beats had an influence on dylan.
tarantula is
dylanesque
attempts at Burroughsian writing for example.
But as always
with Bob he is an
expert thief and took what he wanted and moved along
his own road.
rambling along
obviously too late in the evening at the Beat-Hotel where
we believe that
Bob and Johnny Cash need to hook up for another round of
Nashville
Skyline.
david rhaesa
at the Beat-Hotel
in lawrence
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[149.151.190.53]
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:57:13 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Catholicism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Heidi ho,
i just finished
reading the Dharma Bums and i have to say that i think
JK was at his
prime when he began to believe in universality.
i think
the buddhism
broke him free from his catholic upbringing which led him
to see himself
from a removed point of view. i can
empathize cause i
was raised in a
very traditional manner, religious and otherwise. you
start to see
different perspectives and begin to realize how similar all
the perspectives
really are. JK's path to virtue was
universal. i
haven't yet read
any of his later works, but the ones i've read so far
seem to show
this.
ouisa,
Al
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:19:17 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: new member
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
patti: welcome
aboard the bus, aboard the ship of fools, the list.
mc
Patti Meyer
wrote:
> Hello All, I
just wanted to introduce myself as a new member. I have to
> admit that I
am a rookie in the Beat Generation stuff, but very
>
enthusiastic. I found this list after I read "Dharma Bums" by J.K. I
> really liked
the book, and want to know more about the Beat Gen.
> thanks.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:24:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"idiot wind
blowing circles around my skull from the grand coolie dam to the
capitol"
i remember
ginsberg wrote a letter to dylan just crazy for the entire song
idiot wind but
was knocked out by the above quote. so in some ways, AG and BD
has some synergy
going for some time
just a random
thought from the dustbin of my memories
mc
Jym Mooney wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>
> > i'm not
sure about beat references in songs, except one possible theory
> >
involving his song 'subterranean homesick blues', though i've never
> really
> >
listened all that closely... maybe someone else can be more illuminating
> > than
that.
>
> Yeah, that
reminds me, Ginsberg lurks in the background of the promotional
> film clip
produced for this song in 1965.
>
> Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:44:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well, i dunno but
i believe that the lines 'she makes love just like a
woman/but she
breaks just like a little girl'.....is pretty clear that he is
writing, singing,
about a woman.
$00.2 for the day
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> Jym Mooney
wrote:
> >
> > Carly
wrote:
> >
> > >
okay, so here's another bob dylan question.
i should preface this by
> > saying,
> > > i
know a lot of people don't consider bob dylan a beat. and
for those
> > who
> > >
don't, please excuse this.
> > > my
question is actually based on rumor i heard that i am attempting to
> > confirm
> > > or
refute. i friend told me that his song,
"just like a woman" is
> >
actually
> > >
about a sexual encounter dylan had with a man.
does any one have any
> > >
responses to the nature of its validity?
> >
> >
Interesting! I always heard that
"Just Like A Woman" was written about
> > Andy
Warhol protege/model Edie...oh damn, can't think of her last name.
> > Anyway,
she pilled herself into oblivion in the end.
Another casualty of
> > the
"swinging 60's."
> >
> > Jym
> my
impression is that many of bob's songs are "about" so many things at
> different
layers of meaning that saying it was "about X" or "about Y"
> misses so
much of his art. an incident in life may
have been part of an
> inspiration
but the writing tends to move in and out of the incidents
> and by the
end it could be anyone's actions that the songs are "about".
> this is some
of the beauty of his recent releases.
"Yesterday going too
> fast - today
going too slow" is "about" some actual incident perhaps but
> his mixture
universalizes in a way that -- at least for me -- one can
> move into
the meaning to where the listener is included in what the
> story of the
song is "about".
>
> and of
course, the beats had an influence on dylan.
tarantula is
> dylanesque
attempts at Burroughsian writing for example.
But as always
> with Bob he
is an expert thief and took what he wanted and moved along
> his own
road.
>
> rambling
along obviously too late in the evening at the Beat-Hotel where
> we believe
that Bob and Johnny Cash need to hook up for another round of
> Nashville
Skyline.
>
> david rhaesa
> at the
Beat-Hotel in lawrence
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 01:56:10 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Catholicism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Jeffrey
Perchuk wrote:
> So if
anybody out there has any thoughts the link between JK's
> Catholicism
> and his
literary aesthetic--imagery, spontaneous prose, religious
> symbols--I'd
like to hear about it.
Having had a few
days of mail pile up, I was quite surprised to see such
a large number of
posts expressing such vehemence toward Catholicism. As
Jeff pointed out,
the emotionalism has little to do with the theology.
Without going
into it in depth, I do want to point out that all of the
sacraments of the
Catholic church do have their basis in scripture, and a
study of the
Bible or a class in various religions would reveal these.
All religions
historically have a history of violence, even the variences
in different
types of Buddhism. As far as Christian
religions go,
focusing on their
foundation in grace and love will get one closer to the
truth of the
meaning than the various dos and do nots that vary with
denominations. Relating this to Kerouac, one other poster
got to the
heart of the
manner when he recognized the idea of "universality" in
religious
experience. All religions are
experiences of the transcendent,
and with Kerouac
this idea of experiencing the transcendent is at the
heart or core of
all of his writings.
Having just
recently read Visions of Gerard, it became clear to me
Kerouac's
internalization of Catholicism was very similar to his
internalization
of Buddhism. Because Gerard died at 9,
and Kerouac was
only 4 at the
time, you have to come to the conclusion that in Visions of
Gerard, Kerouac
is reworking his understanding of their childhood with
the knowledge he
has gained as an adult. Compare for
example this
passage from
Visions of Gerard and one from The Golden Eternity.
(from Visions of
Gerard, pg. 38)
"...But God
is merciful and God above all is kind, and kind is kind, and
kindness is all,
and it all works out that the mortal angel at the alter
rail as the
church hour roars with empty silence (everybody gone now,
including the
last priest, Gerard's priest) is bathed in blisskindness
whether it be
pointed out or not that the other easier ways might do the
job as well,
which may be doubtful, snow being snow, divinity divinity,
holiness
holiness, believing believing.
All alone at the rail he suddenly becomes
conscious of the intense
roaring of
silence, it fills every ear and seens to permeate throughout
the marble and
the flowers and the darkening flickering air with the same
pure
transparency--The heaven heard sound for sure, hard as a diamond,
empty as a
diamond, bright as a diamond--Like unceasing compassion its
continual
near-at-hand seawash and solace, some subtle solace intended to
teach some
subtler reward than the one we've printed and that for which
the architects
raised.
Enveloped in peaceful joy, my little brother
hurries out the empty
church and goes
running and skampering home to supper thr raw marched
streets."
compare the
images in this after-confession epiphany of sorts with those
in The Scriptures
of the Golden Eternity:
"God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
never-lived and
never-died. That we should learn it only
now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it's
already done, there's no more to do.
This is the
knowledge that sees the golden eternity in all things, which
is us, you, me,
and which is no longer us, you, me."
To follow the
teachings of Jesus is to arrive at the same kind of
egolessness that
is also the heart of Buddhism. Also, in
the sacraments
of the Catholic
church, the eucharist, reconcilation, etc. one not only
accepts the
grace/love of Christ's sacrifice but awakens the Christ or
God within,
leading to a fuller spiritual life. So,
in looking at
Kerouac's
literature Catholicism and Buddhism need not be at opposite
poles, one or the
other. It is a much more universalness
of experience
with the
transcendent and the underlying mystery within all things.
There is much
more I would like to discuss about Kerouac's religious
images and prose
if anyone is up for it.
DC
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
tangled up in bob....
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<43a5e8e5.34ee1c5c@aol.com>
References:
Carly Earnshaw
wrote:
>and was
wondering if any one was aware of
>any beat
references in his songs, as i've never noticed any.
>and third, i
figure bob probably met at least some of the beats in his life
>time, but i
don't know for sure. i figured you guys
might. any clue?
>
buongiorno Carly,
one of the
recurrent themes of the beat murmur was pacifism.
a post-atomic age
scene, an agonizig fear 'bout the nuke, the
bomb. it was in
1962 i remember that cuban-usa crisis that
caught my eyes on
the tv (was 12 year old). this episode was
the climax of the
60s. and Bob Dylan have his song _A Hard Rain's
A-Gonna Fall_
devoted to this political event
I heard the sound of a thunder
that roared out a warning
I heard the rorar of a wave
that could drown the whole world
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------To:
thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Blunted Beatz
Cc: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34EE0766.24EA@skynet.be>
References:
Glamorous
Hooligan wrote:
>-=I GOT THE
DEVIL IN ME=-
>
>up against
the wall
>behaving like
DeNiro
[...]
sad news Robert
De Niro was kicked off by tha staff
of performers
engaged to recite the Giovanni Paolo II
the pope poems
(dou remember De
Niro in _Main Street_ by Scorsese?,
GREAT!)
yr poemas is to
time, thanks.
HAVE MY BEST
saluti,
Rinaldo
-------Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:31:50 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 21
Feb 1998 11:18:07...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:18:07 +0100 with subject "Re: Blunted
Beatz" has
been successfully distributed
to the BEAT-L
list (251
recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:31:55 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 21
Feb 1998 11:07:12...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:07:12 +0100 with subject "Re: tangled
up in bob...." has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (251
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:56:50 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mexican Radio
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Al Min wrote:
>
> ya see
though. that's what i'm sayin. there're always gonna be bad
> people from
all backgrounds and all different situations.
but the
> religions
themselves aren't bad at all. it's the
people who
> believe in
them and rationalize their own behaviors according
> to their
misconstrued interpretations of their faith.
=== By the same
token, one could also rationalize that the Nazi Party,
the Republican
party, the Democratic Party, Aryan Nations, the KKK, etc.
aren't bad at
all, it's just the people IN them....
Any religion that
says there is no direct way a person can talk to God
without first
going through the religion's intermediaries - well, let's
just say they
obviously aren't fundamentally innocent and benevolent....
> the fact is,
all the religions point in
> the same
direction.
=== speak for
yourself. MY religion points as far south to the others'
north as
possible.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
blasting Astrud
Gilberto for the neighbors
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
elk.uvm.edu: wgay owned process doing -bs
X-Sender:
wgay@elk.uvm.edu
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:01:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "William N. Gay"
<wgay@ZOO.UVM.EDU>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It was about Edie
Sedgwick, supposedly. Her biography is well worth the
read.
On Fri, 20 Feb
1998, Jym Mooney wrote:
> Carly wrote:
>
> > okay, so
here's another bob dylan question. i
should preface this by
> saying,
> > i know
a lot of people don't consider bob dylan a beat. and
for those
> who
> > don't,
please excuse this.
> > my
question is actually based on rumor i heard that i am attempting to
> confirm
> > or
refute. i friend told me that his song,
"just like a woman" is
> actually
> > about a
sexual encounter dylan had with a man.
does any one have any
> >
responses to the nature of its validity?
>
>
Interesting! I always heard that
"Just Like A Woman" was written about
> Andy Warhol
protege/model Edie...oh damn, can't think of her last name.
> Anyway, she
pilled herself into oblivion in the end.
Another casualty of
> the
"swinging 60's."
>
> Jym
>
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:44:05 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff <jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: new member AND a bit about burroughs
AND kerouac's dharma bums
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patti Meyer
schrieb:
>
> Hello All, I
just wanted to introduce myself as a new member. I have to
> admit that I
am a rookie in the Beat Generation stuff, but very
>
enthusiastic. I found this list after I read "Dharma Bums" by J.K. I
> really liked
the book, and want to know more about the Beat Gen.
> thanks.
hello,
this email gives
me the opportunity to introduce myself to this list.
well, you can
call it re-introducing, cause i've been on this list some
months ago before
having to shut down my free university email account.
now i am online
from home and here again among the beat aficionados. :)
i'm a bit more
than a newbie in the beat generation theme, having read
most of
burroughs' books, some of ginsberg's more famous poems (howl &
kaddish brought
me to tears, needless to say) and on the road, dharma
bums, pic and
some poems by kerouac.
i'd say that
burroughs is my favourite beat author, though i'd say that
after having
developed the cutup method of writing, he was no more beat
than any other
writer who's not associated with the beat circle. in
fact, in
"the job", this great interview he gave years ago to monsieur
odier, he said
that he didn't sympathise with the beat movements goals
to reform society
thru peace and love, he just was friends with some
beat figures like
kerouac, ginsberg, etc...
now you've
mentioned "dharma bums", pattie... i read that book, too and
found it to be
the most extraordinary book of kerouac next to on the
road. though i
never read the original, but only an old german
translation my
father bought ages ago, i really "dig" the mad & excited
spirituality of
this book. sometimes, this book even "beats" "on the
road",
because, more than "on the road", it reflects kerouac's search
for eternity.
jens
jensm@moving-people.net
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 03:30:00 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
It's all or
nothing. Ezra Pound understood this. When Freud read a selections
of Pound's work
he wrote to Pound inviting him to be analyzed. "I think
I can get rid of
those demons," said Freud. Pound wrote back and said,
"Thank you
for your offer of analyses, but I don't think so. I'm sure you
<I>could</I>
get rind of my demons but you would get rid of my angels as
well."</HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:42:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Dylan and the Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Al Aronowitz, who
used to be on the list, played a big hand in
introducing Dylan
to Ginsberg. I think there is a story,
or portion of
the story on his
web page. If you have a real interest
in Dylan there
are good stories
on Al's page about the Beatles and Dylan etc.
Check it
out at:
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/
I will copy Al
with this post and ask, "Hey Al, even if you are not on
the list anymore,
you can still post. Do you have any
comments on the
influence the
Beats, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, or others had on
Dylan? The topic is kinda going around. Also, if you could tell list
members exactly
how to get to your stories about Dylan and Ginsberg, it
might be
appreciated. Thanks."
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 03:45:30 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: buddhism - kerouac graffiti
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
Joseph Smith once
said: "I told the breatheren that the Book of Mormon
was the most
correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,
and a man would
get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any
other book."
<P>Apostle
replied: "Books do not bring any earthling closer to God. God
shepherds me into
the flock - "The lot is cast into the lap but its every
decision is from
the Lord" But if God had not sung this into my heart,
I would doubt it.
Some say doubt everything you read (including this) -
and unless the
voice of God tells you otherwise trust no written word.
Trust that which
is written in your own blood. Trust God to be the creator
of what you feel
and no book on earth will bring you closer to God. To
every face I
would say: <I>No written conclusion is beyond
judgement."</I></HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:49:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ginsberg and
Dylan were good friends. Al Aronowitz
introduced them.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:53:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie:
As I recall,
Allen spotted this quote and wrote to Bob telling him that it was
what Bob intended
it to be, a perfect description of Amerika.
As I recall, the
Grand Coulee Dam
was a make work project that caused substantial damage to the
environment,
covered some important land and was generally not needed. Bob used
it both to
hightlight the excess and stupidity coming out of the Capitol and how
it was all going
to kill us in the end. I believe, but
could be wrong, that it
also connected
with Woody's songs he wrote for the WPA.
One of which may have
been about the
GCD.
But, even if I
have some facts wrong here, the result was that Bob was blown
away
that Allen picked
up on the image of Amerika that he intended, as none of his
friends did, and
he invited Allen to go on Rolling Thunder Review. Of course
they all ended up
together at Jack Kerouac's grave singing to the spirit of
Jack. I, if my wife has not trashed it, still have
the RS mag with the picture.
It also is in
Renaldo and Clara.
RTR was a kinda
beat thing. I believe that some of the
folks on the tour, like
Roger McGuinn
have very fond memories of the whole thing.
Though I doubt that
they could do it
all again, at least like that!
Maybe some more
folks on the list know more about this than I do.
Marie Countryman
wrote:
> "idiot
wind blowing circles around my skull from the grand coolie dam to the
>
capitol"
> i remember
ginsberg wrote a letter to dylan just crazy for the entire song
> idiot wind
but was knocked out by the above quote. so in some ways, AG and BD
> has some
synergy going for some time
> just a
random thought from the dustbin of my memories
> mc
>
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 03:58:41 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: Moloch
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
Can't say about
the AG angle. As I know it Miller took Moloch from the
Old Testament
Semitic deity to whom parents sacrificed their children...and
definately not
from <I>"Moloch horridus"</I> the Australian
desert-living
lizard that feeds
on ants.</HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:36:19 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry <buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Well, he was a
banker...
Not that there's
anything wrong with that...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:50:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joey Mellott
<peyotecoyote@IAH.COM>
Subject: Burroughs and the lettrists
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Having almost
finished LIPSTICK TRACES, I believe that Burroughs desire to
destroy language
is not unique for its time. He was one
of the first
*Americans* to
propose the idea, but a group of Paris intellectuals and
writers (the
lettrists) followed a similar philosophy.
The lettrists
asserted the
principle of psychogeography, the idea (abeit, not too
original) that
the space an individual surrounds himself with affects his
perception. They thought that a new architecture could be
designed to
increase leisure
and happiness. Another one of the
lettrists tenets was
that language as
it exists today should be decimated.
Instead, the
lettrists
proposed to replace words with a super symbolic stylized alphabet,
sort of like the
Chinese have, but with each symbol carrying special nuances
that only a few
could understand. Burroughs used the
cut-up to undermine
language. The lettrists used what they called
detournment, a technique
similar to
Burroughs' cut-up but involving printed items (photographs,
newspaper
articles, etc. Much more like a collage
than a cut up.
I am aware that Burroughs spent some time
in Paris and London in the
seventies. Does anyone know if Burroughs read anything
by the lettrists?
Did Burroughs
meet any former lettrists or situationists (Guy Debord's
group) in
Paris? I find the parallels in Burroughs
and the lettrists
theories most
fascinating.
Joey Mellott :
poet, writer, and aspiring ascendant
peyotecoyote@iah.com
"I want God,
I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom,
I want goodness. I want sin." - Aldous Huxley
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:58:20 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and the lettrists
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 21 Feb
1998, Joey Mellott wrote:
> "I want
God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom,
> I want goodness. I want sin." - Aldous Huxley
Good Lord,
Aldous, with all that wanting no wonder you had no room for
anything else!
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to your
very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:11:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matt Sanford <Mato15@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hunter S. Thompson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"Above the
Beat movement?" ---I know it sounds funny but I did read an article
in Rolling Stone
mag in which he mentioned this, maybe not in such a dis-
respectful way,
but he did mention it...i dunno.
Mat
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:48:57 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
> I believe,
but could be wrong, that it
> also
connected with Woody's songs he wrote for the WPA. One of which may have
> been about
the GCD.
GCD is a woody
reference the whole Roll on Columbia Roll on period when
he was paid to
follow the work in the Pacific Northwest and write
songs. Some found this anti-thetical to woody's
anti-governmental
positions feeling
he was selling out and becoming a propagandist for the
government -- that
his guitar was no longer killing fascists but
promoting
them. These same people hate having
Burroughs in Nike
commercials and
whatnot. I've never understood why one
can't take a
buck where it
comes from without necessarily being poisoned by the
givers
belief-systems.
david rhaesa
at the beat-hotel
in lawrence
eating spinach
feta cheese bread from Great Harvest on vermont street.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:05:13 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
RE:
......Woody's
songs he wrote for the WPA. One of which
may have
> > been
about the Grand Coulee Dam
there's a woody
guthrie memorial generating station at the dam.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:14:41 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mexican Radio
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane Carter
wrote:
> Without
going into it in depth, I do want to point out that
> all of the sacraments
of the Catholic church do have their
> basis in
scripture, and a study of the Bible or a class in
> various
religions would reveal these.
=== Just because Jesus said "Take, eat, this
is my body" does not mean
he intended
ritual ceremonies with people lining up to eat
transubstantiated
wafers.
Having a
"basis" in scripture doesn't mean something is scripturally
sound. Any
para-Christian cult manages to find some sort of "basis" in
scripture, fer
cryin' out loud! But regardless of what rituals and
bric-a-brac were
inspired by things said in the Bible, there's nothing
in there, and
certainly not in the red letters, that even hints that
Christ intended
Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, Confessionals, Hail Marys,
Rosarys,
dashboard Saints, Transubstantiation, The Crusades, The
Inquisition, P2,
and the Vatican Bank.
The crucifixes
with the skull and crossbones on them are pretty keen,
though.
Tenuous thread of
Beat relevancy : does anyone know if any of the Beats
dug Tom Lehrer?
Tom Lehrer did a hilarious satirical attack on
Catholicism
called "The Vatican Rag", and his brand of iconoclastic
black humor would
be right up the Beats' alley....sort of Steve Allen's
evil twin.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott Holland
- Berea, KY
watching "A
Streetcar Named Desire" yet again
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:41:34 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it's not what he
did for a living, it is about what he wrote. educated
in grad school in
early 70s, i had been given deep appreciation of his
works. i just
love his rhythms, allusions, guilt, transcendance, and
sheer imagery
that is not there as a knicknack on the table, but a
supporting beam
for the room in which the table exists.
a recovering
catholic
mc
Paul Buckberry
wrote:
> Well, he was
a banker...
>
> Not that
there's anything wrong with that...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:43:31 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot/ps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i don't remember
how this thread got started , but t. s. was not a beat
and this is
beat-l.
also he loved
cats, and cat imagery in his pomes knock me out still,
esp. the fog in
prufrock.
ok,
back to regular
channel.
mc
Paul Buckberry
wrote:
> Well, he was
a banker...
>
> Not that
there's anything wrong with that...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:32:43 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Manchurian Candidate
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Stannard Ridgeway
wrote:
> but this was
never the issue in
> the first
place.
>
> Pay more
attention.
=== So I'm making
it the issue *now*. In the second place, like.
Sometimes I think
I'm the only one who *is* paying attention.
>
> And Leherer
is great. Very funny fellow.
>
> I think that
Mark Russell would be the Lehrer copiest who isn't as smart,
> clever or
funny etc...
=== Agreed. He
lacks Lehrer's black humor and ascerbic sarcasm, too.
>
> But I never
thought of Leherer and the beats as kindred spirits.
=== Well, I
didn't say "kindred spirits", but I can imagine the Beats
enjoying his very
(anti-)political "That Was The Year That Was" album,
and the TV show
from which it was drawn, "That Was The Week That Was",
which contained
healthy doses of satirical political commentary.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to
Count Basie's "One O' Clock Jump"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:43:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:44 AM
2/21/98 +0000, you wrote:
>well, i dunno
but i believe that the lines 'she makes love just like a
>woman/but she
breaks just like a little girl'.....is pretty clear that he is
>writing,
singing, about a woman.
>$00.2 for the
day
>
>Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>> Jym
Mooney wrote:
>> >
>> >
Carly wrote:
>> >
>> >
> okay, so here's another bob dylan question. i should preface this by
>> >
saying,
>> >
> i know a lot of people don't consider bob dylan a beat. and
for those
>> > who
>> >
> don't, please excuse this.
>> >
> my question is actually based on rumor i heard that i am attempting to
>> >
confirm
>> >
> or refute. i friend told me that
his song, "just like a woman"
is
>> >
actually
>> >
> about a sexual encounter dylan had with a man. does any one have any
>> >
> responses to the nature of its validity?
>> >
>> >
Interesting! I always heard that
"Just Like A Woman" was written about
>> >
Andy Warhol protege/model Edie...oh damn, can't think of her last name.
>> >
Anyway, she pilled herself into oblivion in the end. Another casualty of
>> > the
"swinging 60's."
>> >
>> > Jym
>> my
impression is that many of bob's songs are "about" so many things at
>>
different layers of meaning that saying it was "about X" or
"about Y"
>> misses
so much of his art. an incident in life
may have been part of an
>>
inspiration but the writing tends to move in and out of the incidents
>> and by
the end it could be anyone's actions that the songs are "about".
>> this is
some of the beauty of his recent releases.
"Yesterday going too
>> fast -
today going too slow" is "about" some actual incident perhaps
but
>> his
mixture universalizes in a way that -- at least for me -- one can
>> move
into the meaning to where the listener is included in what the
>> story of
the song is "about".
>>
>> and of
course, the beats had an influence on dylan.
tarantula is
>>
dylanesque attempts at Burroughsian writing for example. But as always
>> with Bob
he is an expert thief and took what he wanted and moved along
>> his own
road.
>>
>> rambling
along obviously too late in the evening at the Beat-Hotel where
>> we
believe that Bob and Johnny Cash need to hook up for another round of
>>
Nashville Skyline.
>>
>> david
rhaesa
>> at the
Beat-Hotel in lawrence
>
>
It makes more
sense to me to look for the connection between Dylan's songs
and Ginsberg's
poetry--if you're trying to see whether or not Dylan was
'Beat.' When
Kerouac appeared on the Steve Allen show in,
what--1957--1959?--and
was asked how he defined 'Beat' (he took the question
good-naturedly,
because I think he liked and respected Allen) -- his first
word was
'sympathetic.' Okay, then--if you want to look for that
'sympathetic'
link between Dylan's songs and the Beat stuff--well, it's easy
enough to find.
Ginsberg, much more than Kerouac or Burroughs, had a highly
developed social
conscience from the early days of his youth. Remember that
one of Ginsberg's
boyhood ambitions was to be a crusading labor lawyer and
he was a great
admirer of Gene Debs. You can link that up to the Woody
Guthrie influence
in Dylan--and you see it in "Howl" when he is calling out
for the
redemptive power of LOVE--and sympathy and understanding for the
junkies, the
hookers, the hobos and hustlers, the mentally ill (victims of
lobotomies and
such) hispters, wanderers, the lovelost, the disillusioned,
the outcasts, the
heartbroken among us. And justice too--the emphasis on
justice is
important. Dylan wanted pretty much the same thing--with perhaps
a more militant
edge, I grant you. Otherwise, what was he thinking about in
such songs as
"The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Caroll" or "The Ballad Of Davey
Moore" or
"The Ballad Of Hollis Brown" or "Blowing In The Wind"? Even
a song
like
"Masters Of War" MUST have been inspired, at least in part, by some
of
the things in
"Howl"---in that song, Dylan wrote---"And I hope that you
die/And your
death will come soon/I'll follow your casket/on a pale
afternoon/And
I'll watch while you're lowered/on to your death bed/then I'll
stand over your
grave/til I'm sure that you're dead..."
How far is that in
sentiment,
really, from a line like "Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb."?
You don't think
the anger came from the same place, for both of them? There
is a prophetic
quality in the writing of both--maybe more in
Ginsberg--prophetic
utterance, I guess you'd call it--in which profound
anger and outrage
is requisite. I also believe that this "prophetic" quality
is part of the
Hebrew (Biblical, really) literary tradition such as you see
in the Book Of
Isaiah, for instance.
Also,
consider--they were both (more or less) urbanized American Jews who
felt very much
out of synch with their cultural and political heritages.
They had similar
sensibilities and read many of the same works, without a
doubt. Although
separated by years, I think they are both very much a part
of the same
poetic tradition--I have found it interesting, for example, to
find traces of
Surrealist influence in their writings--and again, for two
poets who were
deeply committed politically, the radicalism of the
Surrealists, was,
I think, an appealing feature. Of course--I can't PROVE
any of this--but
it seems to make sense. Also, being influenced by the
Surrealists
explains the subversive humor and satire in Dylan--some of which
went completely
over the heads of the folks it was aimed at--and it also
brings to mind
the amazing flights of fancy--the distortions of
language--the
bizarre imagery and closed symbolism---which are a big part of
Dylan's prose
writings ("Tarantula" comes to mind--but check out some of the
liner notes
written by Dylan himself--especially the ones from "Highway 61,
Revisited").
Isn't that what Andre Breton meant by "convulsive beauty" ?
In the end, Dylan
could definitely be called 'Beat' but he would be a
relative
latecomer--but that doesn't rule out the connection, all the same.
I guess it goes
back to the use of the word 'sympathetic' which JK used in
that interview.
Anybody who was going to take Herbert Huncke, Allen
Ginsberg, or any
of the poor souls described in "Howl"seriously would HAVE
to be of a
'sympathetic' turn of mind. That's where Dylan comes in, at least
for me.
Jeff
Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:55:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
>
> === Just because Jesus said "Take, eat, this
is my body" does not mean
> he intended
ritual ceremonies with people lining up to eat
>
transubstantiated wafers.
What basis do you
have for knowing what "he intended?" This looks to me
like the
beginning of a ritual: "Then he took the bread, said the
blessing, broke
it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body, which
will be given for
you; do this in memory of me.' And likewise the cup
after they had
eaten, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood,
which will be
shed for you.'" (Luke 22:19-20)
This is my last
post on Catholicism unless you would like to discuss it
in relation to
Kerouac.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:04:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Moloch
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 22 Feb
1998 03:58:41 +1100 Paul Buckberry said:
>--------------38F5F9A595A00DA776304B62
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
>
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
>Can't say
about the AG angle. As I know it Miller took Moloch from the
>Old Testament
Semitic deity to whom parents sacrificed their
>children...and
definately not from "Moloch horridus" the Australian
>desert-living
lizard that feeds on ants.
>
>--------------38F5F9A595A00DA776304B62
>Content-Type:
text/html; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
><HTML>
>Can't say
about the AG angle. As I know it Miller took Moloch from the
>Old Testament
Semitic deity to whom parents sacrificed their children...and
>definately
not from <I>"Moloch horridus"</I> the Australian
desert-living
>lizard that
feeds on ants.</HTML>
>
>--------------38F5F9A595A00DA776304B62--
Yes, same god.
See AG's annotated edition of Howl for additional info.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:06:03 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: st. dean
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Carly
Earnshaw wrote:
>
> okay, so
with all the talk of catholisim going on, i guess this is an
> appropriate
time to ask this question. i'm reading
on the road for the
> second
> time and
i've noticed quite a few references to dean as becoming,
> towards the
> end of the
book, a saint, an angel, and whatnot.
this seems a little
> bizzarre
> to me since
i had the general impression that sal had become
>
dissillusioned
> with
dean. does anyone have any insight or
commentary on the matter?
It's not really
bizarre when you consider the mythic dimensions that
Kerouac gave to
the "Neal" character, whether as Dean in OTR or Cody in
Visions of
Cody. When you look closely for heroes
you will find both
Neal and
Kerouac's brother Gerard often approaching this state of
angel/saint/goodness. There is also the disillusionment but it is
based
more on the fact
that everyone dies, than it is on the fact that humans
let you down.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:09:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:01 AM
2/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>It was about
Edie Sedgwick, supposedly. Her biography is well worth the
>read.
>
>On Fri, 20
Feb 1998, Jym Mooney wrote:
>
>> Carly wrote:
>>
>> >
okay, so here's another bob dylan question.
i should preface this by
>> saying,
>> > i
know a lot of people don't consider bob dylan a beat. and
for those
>> who
>> >
don't, please excuse this.
>> > my
question is actually based on rumor i heard that i am attempting to
>> confirm
>> > or
refute. i friend told me that his song,
"just like a woman" is
>> actually
>> >
about a sexual encounter dylan had with a man.
does any one have any
>> >
responses to the nature of its validity?
>>
>>
Interesting! I always heard that
"Just Like A Woman" was written about
>> Andy
Warhol protege/model Edie...oh damn, can't think of her last name.
>> Anyway,
she pilled herself into oblivion in the end.
Another casualty of
>> the
"swinging 60's."
>>
>> Jym
>>
>
> In case
anyone's interested, the the actress you're thinking of was Edie
Sedgwick.
J.
Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:16:03 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Eliot was a beat in denial
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> R. Bentz
Kirby wrote:
>
> TS Eliot was
a beat, he was just in a serious bout of denial that he
> never
overcame. Still his true spirit shown
through despite his best
> efforts to
cover it up. Jack K acknowledged him as
one of the greatest
> American
poets of the 20th century. There was a
reason and it is beat
> and it is in
his poems. That is one reason I love
Prufrock so much,
> his
> struggle is
more available there.
Sorry Bentz, I'm
still not buying the T.S. Eliot was a beat argument, not
if you are
talking about the movement in literary terms.
T.S. Eliot was
an excellent poet
and he wrote about the struggles of the human
condition. But the very fact that he could not let go of
structure and
form and
"what a poem should be" places him in a line of thinking that
was the very
thing Beat literature rebelled against and tore apart. If
everyone that
wrote about the human struggle is beat, then so are several
centuries of
English and American literature.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 23:08:48 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: F@*K Iraq
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Not like I'm one
to talk, but what the fuck does this SPAM have to do with
Beat-anything?! I
mean, for real! --Sara
At 05:38 PM
2/22/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:59:39 +0100
>Sender: Discussions on Philosophical Bases of
Managing the Information
> Society
<PHILS-VU@NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>From: Arie Dirkzwager
<aried@XS4ALL.NL>
>Subject: Re: <nettime> Don't Bomb Iraq
Petition
>
> I advise everyone to sign this
petition. The first Gulf war polluted
>large areas
with radioactive uranium waste, many soldiers who fought there
>are suffering
weird illnesses presumably caused by the weapons they used,
>Iraq is not
the only state with mass-destructive chemical and biological
>weapons -
others even have operational nuclear ones. I'm most certainly not
>in favour of
Saddam and his politics, but there are more efficient ways of
>getting rid
of him.
>
>Arie
>
>At 09:54 PM
2/22/98 +1100, you wrote:
>
>From: terry
allen <tallen@igc.org>
>Subject:
<nettime> Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
>
>
>People of the
World--
>
>If
appearances hold true, there will soon be another military
>attack under
United Nations auspices on Iraqi territory.
The following
>petition is a
modest effort to encourage and focus opposition to the use
>of violence
against Iraq. It is directed to the
United States
>government,
and particularly to President William J. Clinton, because of
>the leading
role played by the United States in encouraging a military
>attack.
>If you
support this effort, please add your name, home city, and
>home nation
to the list and forward it to others.
Should you happen to
>be the 100th,
200th, ..., or millionth person to sign, please forward a
>copy to
peace@appleseed.spi.net. The assembled
names will be forwarded
>electronically
to President Clinton and other US government officials.
>They will not
be printed nor will they be used for any other purpose.
>
>Should you
wish to communicate with President Clinton, try any
>of the
following:
>
>Address: The
White House
> 1600 Pennsylvania Ave
> Washington, DC 20500
>Phone:
202-456-1414
>Email:
president@whitehouse.gov
>
> US citizens may also wish to advise
their Congressional
>representatives
of their positions. Congressional
representatives may
>be reached
via mail by writing:
>
>Representative
<name> Senator
<name>
>US House of
Representatives US Senate
>Washington
DC 20515 Washington DC 20510
>
>The phone
number of the Capitol switchboard is 202-224-3121; from there,
>you can reach
the office of any Congressperson. If you
don't know who
>your
Congressional representatives are, try
>
>http://www.house.gov/writerep/
for Representatives and
>http://www.senate.gov/senator/state.html
for Senators.
>
>===================================================
>
>
>>ONE
MILLION NAMES FOR PEACE
>>
>>To
President William J. Clinton and other officials of the government
>>of
>>the
United States of America:
>>
>>We, the
undersigned world citizens, strongly oppose any further
>>military
>>attacks
against the nation of Iraq. Past
military campaigns have
>>already
wrought unconscionable destruction that has primarily
>>affected
>>ordinary
>>citizens
of Iraq and not personnel of the Iraqi government. The
>>rubric
>>of the
United Nations should not be employed to justify further such
>>destruction. Please desist in your efforts to execute
another
>>military
>>strike. We desire that you commit yourself to
peaceful resolution of
>>existing
conflicts with the government of Iraq.
>>
>>1. Jamie Pehling, Garden Grove, USA
>>2. Kelly Rittenhouse, Palo Alto, USA
>>3. Tom Warner, Seattle, USA
>>4. Charles Scheiner, White Plains, NY USA
>>5. Lynn Fredriksson, Washington DC, USA
>>6. Ben Terrall, San Francisco, CA, USA
>>7. Thomas Johnson, San Francisco, CA, USA
>>8. Clare Campbell, San Francisco, CA, USA
>>9. John Fitzgerald, San Francisco, CA, USA
>>10. Hiram
Kato, San Francisco, CA, USA
>>11.
George Fox, San Francisco, CA, USA
>>12. David
Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
>>13. Adam
Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
>>14. Noah
Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
>>15. Joan
Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
>>16. Mary
Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
>>17. Susan
T. Simon, New York, NY, USA
>>18. Lee
Simon, New York, NY, USA
>>20. Molly
Simon, New York, NY, USA
>>21. Greg
Simon, New York, NY, USA
>>22. Jim
Terrall, Cornwall, CT, USA
>>23. Lib
Tobin, Cornwall, CT, USA
>>24.
Robert Terrall, Sharon, CT, USA
>>25.
Martha Porter, Sharon, CT, USA
>>26.
Pamela Sexton, Watsonville, CA, USA
>>27. Curt
Gabrielson, Watsonville, CA, USA
>>28. Azwar
Hamid, Yogyakarta, Indonesia
>>29.
Kristin Sundell, Cambridge, MA, USA
>>30.
Larissa Snorek, San Francisco, CA, USA
>>31. Wendy
Aniseh Khan, San Francisco, CA USA
>>32. Jesus
Hermosillo, San Francisco CA USA
>>33. Art
Fridrich, Chicago, IL USA
>>34.
Kenneth Weeks, Palatka, FL USA
>>35. Juan
Reardon, Martinez, CA
>>36. John
A. Reardon, Martinez, CA
>>37. Rick
Goldsmith, Berkeley, CA
>>38. Pat
Goudvis, Boston, MA
>>39. Bill
Turnley
>>40. Karen
Branan
>>41. Terry
Allen, Richmond, VT USA
>>42. Paul
Garrin, New York, NY, USA
>>43. Arie
Dirkzwager, NL.
>44. Rinaldo
Rasa, Venezia, Italia.
>
>
>Terry Allen,
editor
>CAQ
>1500
Massachusetts Ave. #732
>Washington,
DC 20005, USA
>202-331-9763
voice
>202-331-9751
fax
>caq@igc.org
e-mail
>
>
>44 Old
Brooklyn Rd.
>Richmond, VT
05477
>802-434-3767
>tallen@igc.org
personal e-mail
>web site:
http://www.caq.com
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:25:53 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Moloch
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>>Can't say
about the AG angle. As I know it Miller took Moloch from the
>>Old
Testament Semitic deity to whom parents sacrificed their children...and
>>definately
not from <I>"Moloch horridus"</I> the Australian
desert-living
>>lizard that
feeds on ants.</HTML>
>>
>>--------------38F5F9A595A00DA776304B62--
>
> Yes, same
god. See AG's annotated edition of Howl
for additional info.
I would assume
the lizard's name comes from the OT (Old Testament--not Open
Transport) as
well.
Molech was also
called Milcom in the King James version (at least I seem to
remember
that--please correct me if I am wrong).
Children were
burned alive to him and hence the phrase "pass through the
fire". See these verses:
Lev. 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass
through the fire
to Molech,
neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
Lev. 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of
Israel, Whosoever he
be of the
children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel,
that giveth any
of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death:
the people of the
land shall stone him with stones.
Lev. 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and
will cut him off
from among his
people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to
defile my
sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
Lev. 20:4 And if the people of the land do any ways
hide their eyes from
the man, when he
giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
Lev. 20:5 Then I will set my face against that man, and
against his
family, and will
cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to
commit whoredom
with Molech, from among their people.
1Kgs. 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess
of the Zidonians,
and after Milcom
the abomination of the Ammonites.
1Kgs. 11:7 Then did Solomon build an high place for
Chemosh, the
abomination of
Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech,
the abomination
of the children of Ammon.
1Kgs. 11:33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have
worshipped
Ashtoreth the
goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites,
and Milcom the
god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my
ways, to do that
which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and
my judgments, as
did David his father.
2Kgs. 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of
Israel, yea, and made
his son to pass
through the fire, according to the abominations of the
heathen, whom the
LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
2Kgs. 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which is in the
valley of the
children of
Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass
through the fire
to Molech.
2Kgs. 23:13 And the high places that were before
Jerusalem, which were on
the right hand of
the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel
had builded for
Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh
the abomination
of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the
children of
Ammon, did the king defile.
2Chr. 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through
the fire in the
valley of the son
of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments,
and used
witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he
wrought much evil
in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
Jer. 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal,
which are in the
valley of the son
of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to
pass through the
fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came
it into my mind,
that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to
sin.
Ezek. 16:21 That thou hast slain my children, and
delivered them to cause
them to pass
through the fire for them?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:42:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Stannard Ridgeway
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Diane Carter
wrote:
>
>> Without
going into it in depth, I do want to point out that
>> all of
the sacraments of the Catholic church do have their
>> basis in
scripture, and a study of the Bible or a class in
>> various
religions would reveal these.
>
>
>=== Just because Jesus said "Take, eat, this
is my body" does not mean
>he intended
ritual ceremonies with people lining up to eat
>transubstantiated
wafers.
>
>Having a
"basis" in scripture doesn't mean something is scripturally
>sound. Any
para-Christian cult manages to find some sort of "basis" in
>scripture, fer
cryin' out loud! But regardless of what rituals and
>bric-a-brac
were inspired by things said in the Bible, there's nothing
>in there, and
certainly not in the red letters, that even hints that
>Christ
intended Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, Confessionals, Hail Marys,
>Rosarys,
dashboard Saints, Transubstantiation, The Crusades, The
>Inquisition,
P2, and the Vatican Bank.
>
You've mentioned
this twice now. I have a lot of
agreement here with you
actually in terms
of certain aspects of Catholicism as practiced (and this
sort of thing
occurs in Buddhism and Protestantism and Hinduism and all
other religions
to one degree or another), but this was never the issue in
the first place.
Pay more
attention.
And Leherer is
great. Very funny fellow.
I think that Mark
Russell would be the Lehrer copiest who isn't as smart,
clever or funny
etc...
But I never
thought of Leherer and the beats as kindred spirits.
>The
crucifixes with the skull and crossbones on them are pretty keen,
>though.
>
>Tenuous
thread of Beat relevancy : does anyone know if any of the Beats
>dug Tom
Lehrer? Tom Lehrer did a hilarious satirical attack on
>Catholicism
called "The Vatican Rag", and his brand of iconoclastic
>black humor
would be right up the Beats' alley....sort of Steve Allen's
>evil twin.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
>watching
"A Streetcar Named Desire" yet again
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:30:18 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Stannard
Ridgeway wrote:
>
>> but this
was never the issue in
>> the
first place.
>>
>> Pay more
attention.
>
>=== So I'm
making it the issue *now*. In the second place, like.
>Sometimes I
think I'm the only one who *is* paying attention.
>
>
Fair enough
Jeffery, and an interesting topic it is to me, but your
original entry
post was quite a non-sequuitar.
When I said
Leherer didn't seem a kindred spirit, I also would mean that I
never made the
same connection as you in that they might listen or
appreciate
Lehrer. That's all, who knows the
truth? (the shadow and maybe
Patrica Elliot)
But once again I
must reiterate Pay Attention.
>
>>
>> And
Leherer is great. Very funny fellow.
>>
>> I think
that Mark Russell would be the Lehrer copiest who isn't as smart,
>> clever
or funny etc...
>
>=== Agreed.
He lacks Lehrer's black humor and ascerbic sarcasm, too.
>
>
>
>>
>> But I
never thought of Leherer and the beats as kindred spirits.
>
>=== Well, I
didn't say "kindred spirits", but I can imagine the Beats
>enjoying his
very (anti-)political "That Was The Year That Was" album,
>and the TV
show from which it was drawn, "That Was The Week That Was",
>which
contained healthy doses of satirical political commentary.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
>listening to
Count Basie's "One O' Clock Jump"
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:30:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: st. dean
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
okay, so with all
the talk of catholisim going on, i guess this is an
appropriate time
to ask this question. i'm reading on the
road for the second
time and i've
noticed quite a few references to dean as becoming, towards the
end of the book,
a saint, an angel, and whatnot. this
seems a little bizzarre
to me since i had
the general impression that sal had become dissillusioned
with dean. does anyone have any insight or commentary on
the matter?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:31:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Steve Edington
<Sedington@AOL.COM>
Subject: Cassady
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Several days back
someone asked about biographical information on Neal
Cassady. There is
one biography that I know of called The Holy Goof by William
Plummer (Paragon
House, 1981). There's not much in it that hasn't also been
written elsewhere
in bios of other beats (Kerouac, Ginsberg, et. al.) but you
do get it all in
one place in this one. A good part of the book is about NC
and Ken Kesey.
The overall text jumped around too much for my taste, but its
still worth
reading for anyone looking for an overview of NC's life.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:49:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Eliot was a beat in denial
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
TS Eliot was a
beat, he was just in a serious bout of denial that he
never
overcame. Still his true spirit shown
through despite his best
efforts to cover
it up. Jack K acknowledged him as one of
the greatest
American poets of
the 20th century. There was a reason and
it is beat
and it is in his
poems. That is one reason I love
Prufrock so much, his
struggle is more
available there. I figure Dylan took the
line "Inside
the Museum,
infinity goes up on trial" from Prufrock.
Terrible case of
denial. If only Ginsberg could have
liberated him.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 23:29:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Dylan/Christ/Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Disillusioned
words like bullets bark
As human gods aim
for their mark
Made everything
from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored
Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see
without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.
It's Allright Ma
Woe to you,
scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the
outside of the
cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of
extortion and
rapacity. You blind Pharisee! first
cleanse the inside of
the cup and of the
plate, that the outside also may be clean.
Matthew 23: 25-26
Would it have
been worth while,
To have bitten
off the matter with a smile,
To have squeezed
the universe into a ball
To roll it
towards some overwhelming question,
J. Alfred
Prufrock
What is the
universe
but a lot of waves
And a craving
desire
is a wave
Belonging to a
wave
in a world of waves
So why put down,
wave?
Come on wave,
WAVE!
Lucien Midnight
Is this the God
of Gods, the one I heard about
in memorized
language Universities murmur?
Dollar bills can
buy it! the great substance
exchanges itself
freely through all the world's
poetry money, ...
Holy Ghost on the
Nod Over the Body of Bliss
PS: This exercise taught me that Ginsberg used
punctuation like Jesus
did. Hhhmmmm!
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:31:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Diane Carter
wrote:
>
>> Without
going into it in depth, I do want to point out that
>> all of
the sacraments of the Catholic church do have their
>> basis in
scripture, and a study of the Bible or a class in
>> various
religions would reveal these.
>
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>=== Just because Jesus said "Take, eat, this
is my body" does not mean
>he intended
ritual ceremonies ....
YES,
only remember
that was a ritual ceremony and if there hadn't been room at
the table they
would have lined up.
BUT, as far as
I'm concerned: They ate together. The MAN was coming. They
had to know the
TRIP was coming to an end. There is nothing that indicates
he laid an
ecclesiastical father/son this-is-my-blood-this-is-my-body trip
on his pals at
what was, as it turned out, a final supper. He was a simple
working man--a
carpenter. No pretensions, no need for leaders. No need for
followers. It was
a let's-continue-the-trip-scene, no mater what kind of
heat comes down.
And the heat always comes down when social changes is in
the wind. No
different around the table there, than around the table at the
Inn in Kansas, or
wherever you happen to be breaking bread or wind.
You can eat, you
can drink, you can smoke, toke, trip and no one gives a
shit, UNTIL you
start talking about equity and getting a fair share of the
bread from the
oven or the bank. From that point on, whenever you gather
with your
friends, be aware that it might be a last supper.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 23:43:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's Cat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 2/21/98 5:04:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jholland@ICLUB.ORG
writes:
<< f Beat
relevancy : does anyone know if any of the Beats
dug Tom Lehrer? Tom Lehrer did a hilarious
satirical attack on
Catholicism called "The Vatican
Rag", and his brand of iconoclastic
black humor would be right up the Beats'
alley....sort of Steve Allen's
evil twin.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott Holland - Berea, KY
watching "A Streetcar Named Desire"
yet again >>
Better yet, what
would Tennessee Williams think of "first you get down on your
knees, fiddle
with your rosaries, bow your head with great respect, and
GENUFLECT,
GENUFLECT, GENUFLECT!!!"
Ave, Maria...gee,
it's good to see ya
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:04:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: st. dean
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
okay, but i just
finished on the road, again. and dean is
so awful to sal.
so what i don't
understand is, if sal is becoming more
and more aware of how
selfish dean is,
why does jack elevate him to devine status?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:52:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and the lettrists
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Are the
letterists related to the deconstructionists?
Jaces Lacan's works are very similat to
Burroughs on the abilty of
lanugage to
affect the thought patterns.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:09:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: st. dean
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 02:06 PM
2/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Carly
Earnshaw wrote:
>>
>> okay, so
with all the talk of catholisim going on, i guess this is an
>> appropriate
time to ask this question. i'm reading
on the road for the
>> second
>> time and
i've noticed quite a few references to dean as becoming,
>> towards
the
>> end of
the book, a saint, an angel, and whatnot.
this seems a little
>> bizzarre
>> to me
since i had the general impression that sal had become
>>
dissillusioned
>> with
dean. does anyone have any insight or
commentary on the matter?
I think he was
seeing Neal as a replacement for Gerard his own brother.
There was a
tremendous void there when Gerard died he wanted Neal to be
like a brother,
hence the angelical qualities and Saintliness that Jack
attributed to
Gerard were also attributed to Neal.
Phil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:17:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot/ps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:43 PM
2/21/98 +0000, you wrote:
>i don't
remember how this thread got started , but t. s. was not a beat
>and this is
beat-l.
>also he loved
cats, and cat imagery in his pomes knock me out still,
>esp. the fog
in prufrock. MC
So he and Jack
did have something in common. They both loved cats. Phil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:46:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: st. dean
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
oh, nice, very
nice, especially since several times in the novel, sal tells
people that dean
is his brother. do you know of any
letters or anything, any
other books, that
might support this idea, besides visions of cody? i tried
to read that damn
thing and just couldn't get through it.
--ce
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:53:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: on the road letters
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
could anyone
enlighten me as to which letters (i have the selected letters of
jk edited by ann
charters) correspond most with on the road?
it would be
really helpful if
anyone could point out key letters since i'm doing this for
a class and i
have a limited amount of reading time to do this in. thanks for
all the advice
everyone's been giving so far. it's been
really informative
and interesting.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:13:16 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ann waldman went,
as well. but i believe the friendship began a long time ago.
liner notes to
blood on the tracks contain more info.
mc
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
> Marie:
>
> As I recall,
Allen spotted this quote and wrote to Bob telling him that it was
> what Bob
intended it to be, a perfect description of Amerika. As I recall,
the
> Grand Coulee
Dam was a make work project that caused substantial damage to the
> environment,
covered some important land and was generally not needed. Bob
used
> it both to
hightlight the excess and stupidity coming out of the Capitol and
how
> it was all
going to kill us in the end. I believe,
but could be wrong, that
it
> also
connected with Woody's songs he wrote for the WPA. One of which may have
> been about
the GCD.
>
> But, even if
I have some facts wrong here, the result was that Bob was blown
> away
> that Allen
picked up on the image of Amerika that he intended, as none of his
> friends did,
and he invited Allen to go on Rolling Thunder Review. Of course
> they all
ended up together at Jack Kerouac's grave singing to the spirit of
> Jack. I, if my wife has not trashed it, still have
the RS mag with the
picture.
> It also is
in Renaldo and Clara.
>
> RTR was a
kinda beat thing. I believe that some of
the folks on the tour,
like
> Roger
McGuinn have very fond memories of the whole thing. Though I doubt that
> they could
do it all again, at least like that!
> Maybe some
more folks on the list know more about this than I do.
>
> Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
> >
"idiot wind blowing circles around my skull from the grand coolie dam to
the
> >
capitol"
> > i remember
ginsberg wrote a letter to dylan just crazy for the entire song
> > idiot
wind but was knocked out by the above quote. so in some ways, AG and
BD
> > has
some synergy going for some time
> > just a
random thought from the dustbin of my memories
> > mc
> >
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:24:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Eliot was a beat in denial
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
gotta agree with
you there, DC
mc
Diane Carter
wrote:
> > R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
> >
> > TS
Eliot was a beat, he was just in a serious bout of denial that he
> > never
overcame. Still his true spirit shown
through despite his best
> > efforts
to cover it up. Jack K acknowledged him
as one of the greatest
> >
American poets of the 20th century.
There was a reason and it is beat
> > and it
is in his poems. That is one reason I
love Prufrock so much,
> > his
> >
struggle is more available there.
>
> Sorry Bentz,
I'm still not buying the T.S. Eliot was a beat argument, not
> if you are
talking about the movement in literary terms.
T.S. Eliot was
> an excellent
poet and he wrote about the struggles of the human
>
condition. But the very fact that he
could not let go of structure and
> form and
"what a poem should be" places him in a line of thinking that
> was the very
thing Beat literature rebelled against and tore apart. If
> everyone
that wrote about the human struggle is beat, then so are several
> centuries of
English and American literature.
> DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:50:37 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: st. dean
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
do you know of
any letters or anything, any
> other books,
that might support this idea, besides visions of cody? i tried
> to read that
damn thing and just couldn't get through it.
> --ce
visions of cody
is an early version of on the road and is really
important. it's some of kerouac's best writing and has a
tape
transcript
fragment of neal talking about his early life.
you should
try again.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251 (Unverified)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:13:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie: T. S. Elliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:36 AM
2/22/98 +1100, you wrote:
>Well, he was
a banker...
>
>
>Not that
there's anything wrong with that...
>
>
Its T S Eliot,
folks.
Mike Rice
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: AVE
MARIA. (the prayer)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<43a5e8e5.34ee1c5c@aol.com>
References:
Ave Maria gratia plena dominus tecum
benedicta tua mulieribus et benedictus
fructus ventris tui Jesus.
Sancta Maria mater dei ora pro nobis
peccatoribus
nunc et in ora mortis nostrae.
Amen.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:56:28 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 22
Feb 1998 10:44:36...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:44:36 +0100 with subject "AVE MARIA.
(the
prayer)" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (255
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:24:49 ARG
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<rvcalvo@mail.satlink.com>
From: LacOv <rvcalvo@SATLINK.COM>
Subject: we are the gingival sunflower
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi, my first post
here!
I think I'm going
to have a lot of good time w/ you here and learn and share
a lot of things.
I only want to
introduce myself saying that my life would have been totally
different if I
wouldn't know the beats, the surrealist and people in that line.
(I think this is
the same for you).
Personally my
first insight in the so called beat movement was an interview
with William Burroughs I read in an underground
magazine when I was 14 (I'm
22 now) and since
then i'm completely hooked.
Then came NaKed
Lunch and Kerouac and Ginsberg and Ferlinghetti and
Well, that's
almost all.
PS#1: I read
somewhere in the net, that the New York Post had published last
WSB journal
entries... Do you know if they are available somewhere on-line??
PS#2:: I have
read that Woodard, a WSB friend was in Tierra del Fuego.
Somebody know if
this is true? ( I live in Tierra del Fuego myself)
Best Regards
LacOv
(a wannabe
writer, psychonaut and empty bathtub))
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:53:50 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Manchurian Candidate
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
> >
> >
=== Just because Jesus said "Take,
eat, this is my body" does not mean
> > he
intended ritual ceremonies with people lining up to eat
> >
transubstantiated wafers.
and Diane Carter
replied:
> What basis
do you have for knowing what "he intended?"
and JSH responds:
=== A sentence
that states "Just because X does not mean X" doesn't mean
I am claiming to
know what Jesus intended. I am merely pointing out a
lack of chain of
evidence for the Catholic's claim that they DO know
what he intended.
I have no idea what he intended - and neither does
anyone else.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to The
Who's "Now I'm A Farmer"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:49:31 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Robert Shelton
wrote: "Despite this work's enduring melodic appeal, its
view of women is
controversial. The title is a male platitude that
justifiably
angers women. I think Dylan is ironically toying with that
platitude."
Marion Meade
wrote in the New York Times on March 14, 1971, that
"there's no
more complete catalogue of sexist slurs" than this song
where Dylan
"defines women's natural traits as greed, hypocrisy, whining
and
hysteria."
Bill King:
"Dylan's finest poem on the failure of human relationships
because of
illusion created by social myth."
Could be Dylan
may be out and out criticizing sexist men as much as the
woman, or women,
who fail them. The line for me that turns the sharp
edges all fuzzy
is: "I was hungry and it was your world."
But the same sex
angle, I dunno. If I were you I'd be asking my "friend"
for sources. Full
interrogation if necessary with bamboo shoots.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
MAA07712
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:57:31 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: pome: delete at will: my father's
billfold
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
companion piece
to 'my father's eyes' in which these photos were
mentioned. and
yes, they literally came in the mail yesterday.
my father's
billfold
delivered to my
door today
photos from his
wife
the ones he
kept in all billfolds
he carried all
his life.
my father
can't recognize
nor remember
-if he ever had a
billfold-
-if he ever had a
family-
- a son, a wife,
or me.
the irony:
just as in life,
now in his dying,
he was always
absentee.
the photos -
cracked, stained,
fading with sweat
and age
black and white
now sepia
but we all look
the same
me at five
my brother at
eight
and our mother -
his wife.
i look at me
looking at me:
i can barely
remember this child
of five
with the huge
brown eyes
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
frozen in time.
i adored my dad,
and
had so little of
him,
and yet it just
occurs to me
that if i lacked
him,
he always had me
-
in his pocket in
his billfold,
a paper doll
family.
with me in his
billfold,
we sat on
countless barstools,
in his way
together,
he forever
drinking
me forever
hopeful,
forever frozen,
forever five.
(c) marie
countryman 2/22/98(on her 45th birthday)
.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
NAA24510
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:21:26 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: mc again draft 2, delte at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
> this is the
piece that completes 'my father's eyes'
> first draft
> my father's
billfold
>
> delivered to
my door today
> photos from
his wife
> the ones he
kept in all billfolds
> he carried
all his life.
>
> my father
can't remember
> -if he ever
had a billfold-
> -if he ever
had a family-
> - a son, a
wife, or me.
> the irony:
> just as in
life, now in his dying,
> he was
always absentee.
>
> the photos -
cracked, stained,
> fading with
sweat and age
> black and
white now sepia
> but we all
look the same
> me at five
> my brother
at eight
> and our
mother - his wife.
>
> i look at me
looking at me:
> i can barely
remember this child
> of five
> with the
huge brown eyes
> full of
secrets,
> full of
sadness,
> frozen in
time.
>
> i adored my
dad, and
> had so
little of him,
> and yet it
just occurs to me
> that if i
bemoaned the lack of him,
> he always
had me -
> in his
pocket, in his billfold,
> a paper doll
family.
>
> with me in
his billfold,
> we sat on
countless barstools,
> in his way
together,
> he forever
drinking
> me forever
hopeful,
> forever
frozen,
> forever
five.
> (c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on her 45th
birthday .
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:45:35 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: F@*K Iraq
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
michael: please
tell craig how much i love his pome and how it speaks to me,
thanks for
forwarding it on to the list
mc
Michael Czarnecki
wrote:
> There is no
separation. Poetry, politics, life, death, violence, peace.
> Allen's life was one of involvement with what was
happening out there in
> the world
and not just on the pages of his journals and books. When it
> comes to
speaking out, doing something about the atrocities that affect
> real lives,
how much of a bother is a single post on Beat-l?
>
> And below a
poem from Craig Czury concerning Iraq and Poets and how there
> is no
separation.
>
> DIARY
WITHOUT NAMES
>
> while they
won't show us the dead
> or the
weeping and mangled faces between the rubble
> ~
> while they
interview the heroic pilots
> talking
about having met their objective
> with the
ease of just having flown back from the video arcade
> ~
> i want all
you 5th graders to crouch down under your desks
> for the next
15 minutes (15 days 15 centuries of saturation bombing)
> ~
> i want you
to think about all the 5th grade-aged iraqi poets
> at this
moment huddled under our bombs in bomb shelters
> struggling to
find the exact words
> we have
struggled all week in our poems
> to express
what is happening to us now them in their lives
> under our
bombs
> ~
> (at a time
when the world is speaking guns and missiles
> we have the
balls to speak poetry? only children)
> ~
> i would like
to dedicate today's poetry class
> to the 39
year old iraqi poet who made love last night
> to a young
iraqi music student
> between the
zippers and torn buttons of their clothes
> in a crowded
bomb shelter (muffled implosion
> with the
last spoken tremor a sigh)
> ~
> friends
> there is one
of you in every corner of this earth
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------Craig Czury
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:45:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: tangled up in bob....
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> But,
even if I have some facts wrong here, the result was that Bob was
blown
>> away
>> that
Allen picked up on the image of Amerika that he intended, as none
of his
>> friends
did, and he invited Allen to go on Rolling Thunder Review. Of
course
>> they all
ended up together at Jack Kerouac's grave singing to the spirit of
>>
Jack. I, if my wife has not trashed it,
still have the RS mag with the
> picture.
>> It also
is in Renaldo and Clara.
There is also a
great book by Sam Shepard called "Rolling Thunder Logbook"
with several
pictures of Bob and Allen at the grave it has the story and
poetry. Here's a
Lowell poem from the book. By the way they did a concert
in Lowell at the
University and it was quite a treat to see Dylan and Allen
in Lowell also
Joan Baez and Rambil' Jack Elliot. I was in the front row.
LOWELL LOCATIONS
Grave
Library
High School
Mill Co.
Baptise Church
(what saint will deliver us?)
Moody St. Bridge.
Textile Lunch
Orphanage
Grotto
Castle (Dr. Sax)
Birthplace
Nick's Lounge
Pool Hall (play
for high stakes-souls and sings sins)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:55:05 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RatFink <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Ginsberg and Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> Wishing
doesn'nt make it so. T.S. Eliot can't be
considered Beat in any
> sense, even
as an influence. The Beats were
neo-romantics; Eliot
> harkened
back to 17th century neo-classical forms.
The Beats were
> rebelling
against the kind of "new critical" Eliot inspired verse that
> dominated
English departments in the 1940s and 1950s.
=== I agree, but
it must be said that Ginsberg, the most well-read of
the Beats, really
and truly was a closet neo-classicist. And even his
most rebellious
writings were not really seeking to rebel *against* what
had gone before,
but fighting for the right to be placed *alongside*
what had gone
before. And that's not a bad thing.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland
eating Malt Balls
in glorious sunny
Berea, KY
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:32:00 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Voice of Harold
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In the first
place, this is 1998. The planet is effectively under a
rudimentary
technocratic police state. Petitions
serve NO purpose other
than to provide
the Powers That Be with a handy list of the names of
their opponents.
Secondly, there
is no point taking sides pro or con in the Clinton vs.
Hussein boxing
match, because it is a fixed fight. The U.S.A. and Iraq
are not enemies.
The U.S.A. provided Iraq with its weaponry in the
1980s, just as we
did with Iran and Libya. The U.S.A. didn't eliminate
Saddam in the
Gulf War because we didn't WANT to, he's serving a PURPOSE
for U.S.
interests by doing what he is doing.
The Government
and the media continually belabor the point that the U.S.
does not remove dictators
from power, and that the FBI somehow keeps
tabs on the CIA
to make sure they don't overstep their boundaries. This
is a lie of
Orwellian proportions. It is a freely admitted matter of
historical record
that the U.S. Intelligence Community has had a hand in
everything from
co-opting Nazi Scientists after WW2, overthrowing
dictators like
Quirino, Arbenz, and Mossadegh, conducting secret
operations in
Vietnam, Indonesia, Tibet, Haiti, etc. Meanwhile, certain
dictators like
Hussein, Khadafy and Castro remain curiously untouchable.
Why? Because they
are serving some purpose for certain American business
interests and
Government. Qui Bono?
The point is, the
zeit has been sewn up and the Eschaton is about to be
immanentized.
Tanks will roll and bombs will fall wherever "they" want
them to, and no
piddly little petition is going to change that. Asking
them for Peace
will get you the same response as Oliver Twist's request
for gruel.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland -
Berea, KY
stocking up on
MRE packs
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(FWD)Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
Cc:
peace@appleseed.spi.net
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<43a5e8e5.34ee1c5c@aol.com>
References:
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:59:39 +0100
Sender: Discussions on Philosophical Bases of
Managing the Information
Society
<PHILS-VU@NIC.SURFNET.NL>
From: Arie Dirkzwager
<aried@XS4ALL.NL>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Don't Bomb Iraq
Petition
I advise everyone to sign this
petition. The first Gulf war polluted
large areas with
radioactive uranium waste, many soldiers who fought there
are suffering
weird illnesses presumably caused by the weapons they used,
Iraq is not the
only state with mass-destructive chemical and biological
weapons - others
even have operational nuclear ones. I'm most certainly not
in favour of
Saddam and his politics, but there are more efficient ways of
getting rid of
him.
Arie
At 09:54 PM
2/22/98 +1100, you wrote:
From: terry allen
<tallen@igc.org>
Subject:
<nettime> Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
People of the
World--
If appearances
hold true, there will soon be another military
attack under
United Nations auspices on Iraqi territory.
The following
petition is a
modest effort to encourage and focus opposition to the use
of violence
against Iraq. It is directed to the
United States
government, and
particularly to President William J. Clinton, because of
the leading role
played by the United States in encouraging a military
attack.
If you support
this effort, please add your name, home city, and
home nation to
the list and forward it to others.
Should you happen to
be the 100th,
200th, ..., or millionth person to sign, please forward a
copy to
peace@appleseed.spi.net. The assembled
names will be forwarded
electronically to
President Clinton and other US government officials.
They will not be
printed nor will they be used for any other purpose.
Should you wish
to communicate with President Clinton, try any
of the following:
Address: The
White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave
Washington, DC 20500
Phone:
202-456-1414
Email:
president@whitehouse.gov
US citizens may also wish to advise
their Congressional
representatives
of their positions. Congressional
representatives may
be reached via
mail by writing:
Representative
<name> Senator
<name>
US House of
Representatives US Senate
Washington
DC 20515 Washington DC 20510
The phone number
of the Capitol switchboard is 202-224-3121; from there,
you can reach the
office of any Congressperson. If you
don't know who
your Congressional
representatives are, try
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
for Representatives and
http://www.senate.gov/senator/state.html
for Senators.
===================================================
>ONE MILLION
NAMES FOR PEACE
>
>To President
William J. Clinton and other officials of the government
>of
>the United
States of America:
>
>We, the
undersigned world citizens, strongly oppose any further
>military
>attacks
against the nation of Iraq. Past
military campaigns have
>already wrought
unconscionable destruction that has primarily
>affected
>ordinary
>citizens of
Iraq and not personnel of the Iraqi government.
The
>rubric
>of the United
Nations should not be employed to justify further such
>destruction. Please desist in your efforts to execute
another
>military
>strike. We desire that you commit yourself to
peaceful resolution of
>existing
conflicts with the government of Iraq.
>
>1. Jamie Pehling, Garden Grove, USA
>2. Kelly Rittenhouse, Palo Alto, USA
>3. Tom Warner, Seattle, USA
>4. Charles Scheiner, White Plains, NY USA
>5. Lynn Fredriksson, Washington DC, USA
>6. Ben Terrall, San Francisco, CA, USA
>7. Thomas Johnson, San Francisco, CA, USA
>8. Clare Campbell, San Francisco, CA, USA
>9. John Fitzgerald, San Francisco, CA, USA
>10. Hiram
Kato, San Francisco, CA, USA
>11. George
Fox, San Francisco, CA, USA
>12. David
Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
>13. Adam
Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
>14. Noah
Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
>15. Joan
Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
>16. Mary
Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
>17. Susan T.
Simon, New York, NY, USA
>18. Lee
Simon, New York, NY, USA
>20. Molly
Simon, New York, NY, USA
>21. Greg
Simon, New York, NY, USA
>22. Jim
Terrall, Cornwall, CT, USA
>23. Lib
Tobin, Cornwall, CT, USA
>24. Robert
Terrall, Sharon, CT, USA
>25. Martha
Porter, Sharon, CT, USA
>26. Pamela
Sexton, Watsonville, CA, USA
>27. Curt
Gabrielson, Watsonville, CA, USA
>28. Azwar
Hamid, Yogyakarta, Indonesia
>29. Kristin
Sundell, Cambridge, MA, USA
>30. Larissa
Snorek, San Francisco, CA, USA
>31. Wendy
Aniseh Khan, San Francisco, CA USA
>32. Jesus
Hermosillo, San Francisco CA USA
>33. Art
Fridrich, Chicago, IL USA
>34. Kenneth
Weeks, Palatka, FL USA
>35. Juan
Reardon, Martinez, CA
>36. John A.
Reardon, Martinez, CA
>37. Rick
Goldsmith, Berkeley, CA
>38. Pat
Goudvis, Boston, MA
>39. Bill
Turnley
>40. Karen
Branan
>41. Terry
Allen, Richmond, VT USA
>42. Paul
Garrin, New York, NY, USA
>43. Arie
Dirkzwager, NL.
44. Rinaldo Rasa,
Venezia, Italia.
Terry Allen,
editor
CAQ
1500
Massachusetts Ave. #732
Washington, DC
20005, USA
202-331-9763
voice
202-331-9751 fax
caq@igc.org
e-mail
44 Old Brooklyn
Rd.
Richmond, VT
05477
802-434-3767
tallen@igc.org
personal e-mail
web site:
http://www.caq.com
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:45:52 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 22
Feb 1998 17:38:15...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:38:15 +0100 with subject "(FWD)Don't
Bomb Iraq Petition" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list
(255 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:21:37 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2/25/98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
My condolences,
Marie. *hug* --Sara
At 04:04 PM
2/25/98 +0000, you wrote:
>from some of
the dharma:
>
>I KNEEL
BEFORE THE DEAD
>
>i flopped his
dead arm.
>"he's
gone," i thougth .
>"He came
and grew this body,
>then he went
away.--
>
>Where is he
gone to?
>I don't think
he will return,
>Not if he's
smart.
>He saw it
wasn't worth it.
>He came once,
he lasted ,
> he was like a light
>Extinguishable
in 60 years.
>Me, too my
arm'll be dead.
>
>Now he sees
me sitting , in thought,
>It's hard for
him to understand my body,
>'The spaces
and the big wheels--
>I won't see
him any more
>In those high
vibrations
>But it'll be
all the same
>Farewell,
farewell,
>And farewell
to farewell,
>This is the
shrouded travelller,
>And shadows
in the jazz age."
>
>my father,
who loved jazz, died today, 2/25/98
>mc
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:48:32 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: F@*K Iraq
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Rinaldo, I hear
you. I think some leeway for nonliterary
posts since it
originates from
the most beat italian. remember to add
what would
william , jack,
allen, say to this. signing is just doing the job.
patirica
Sara Feustle
wrote:
>
> Not like I'm
one to talk, but what the fuck does this SPAM have to do with
>
Beat-anything?! I mean, for real! --Sara
>
> At 05:38 PM
2/22/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998
12:59:39 +0100
>
>Sender: Discussions on
Philosophical Bases of Managing the Information
> > Society
<PHILS-VU@NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>
>From: Arie Dirkzwager
<aried@XS4ALL.NL>
>
>Subject: Re: <nettime>
Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
> >
> > I advise everyone to sign this
petition. The first Gulf war polluted
> >large
areas with radioactive uranium waste, many soldiers who fought there
> >are
suffering weird illnesses presumably caused by the weapons they used,
> >Iraq is
not the only state with mass-destructive chemical and biological
> >weapons
- others even have operational nuclear ones. I'm most certainly not
> >in
favour of Saddam and his politics, but there are more efficient ways of
> >getting
rid of him.
> >
> >Arie
> >
> >At 09:54
PM 2/22/98 +1100, you wrote:
> >
> >From:
terry allen <tallen@igc.org>
> >Subject:
<nettime> Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
> >
> >
> >People
of the World--
> >
> >If
appearances hold true, there will soon be another military
> >attack
under United Nations auspices on Iraqi territory. The following
> >petition
is a modest effort to encourage and focus opposition to the use
> >of
violence against Iraq. It is directed to
the United States
>
>government, and particularly to President William J. Clinton, because of
> >the
leading role played by the United States in encouraging a military
> >attack.
> >If you
support this effort, please add your name, home city, and
> >home
nation to the list and forward it to others.
Should you happen to
> >be the
100th, 200th, ..., or millionth person to sign, please forward a
> >copy to
peace@appleseed.spi.net. The assembled
names will be forwarded
>
>electronically to President Clinton and other US government officials.
> >They will
not be printed nor will they be used for any other purpose.
> >
> >Should
you wish to communicate with President Clinton, try any
> >of the
following:
> >
> >Address:
The White House
> > 1600 Pennsylvania Ave
> > Washington, DC 20500
> >Phone:
202-456-1414
> >Email:
president@whitehouse.gov
> >
> > US citizens may also wish to advise
their Congressional
>
>representatives of their positions.
Congressional representatives may
> >be
reached via mail by writing:
> >
>
>Representative <name> Senator <name>
> >US House
of Representatives US Senate
>
>Washington DC 20515 Washington DC 20510
> >
> >The
phone number of the Capitol switchboard is 202-224-3121; from there,
> >you can
reach the office of any Congressperson.
If you don't know who
> >your
Congressional representatives are, try
> >
>
>http://www.house.gov/writerep/ for Representatives and
>
>http://www.senate.gov/senator/state.html for Senators.
> >
>
>===================================================
> >
> >
> >>ONE
MILLION NAMES FOR PEACE
> >>
> >>To
President William J. Clinton and other officials of the government
> >>of
> >>the
United States of America:
> >>
> >>We,
the undersigned world citizens, strongly oppose any further
>
>>military
>
>>attacks against the nation of Iraq.
Past military campaigns have
>
>>already wrought unconscionable destruction that has primarily
>
>>affected
>
>>ordinary
>
>>citizens of Iraq and not personnel of the Iraqi government. The
>
>>rubric
> >>of
the United Nations should not be employed to justify further such
>
>>destruction. Please desist in
your efforts to execute another
>
>>military
>
>>strike. We desire that you
commit yourself to peaceful resolution of
>
>>existing conflicts with the government of Iraq.
> >>
>
>>1. Jamie Pehling, Garden Grove,
USA
>
>>2. Kelly Rittenhouse, Palo Alto,
USA
>
>>3. Tom Warner, Seattle, USA
>
>>4. Charles Scheiner, White
Plains, NY USA
> >>5. Lynn Fredriksson, Washington DC, USA
>
>>6. Ben Terrall, San Francisco,
CA, USA
>
>>7. Thomas Johnson, San
Francisco, CA, USA
>
>>8. Clare Campbell, San
Francisco, CA, USA
>
>>9. John Fitzgerald, San
Francisco, CA, USA
> >>10.
Hiram Kato, San Francisco, CA, USA
> >>11.
George Fox, San Francisco, CA, USA
> >>12.
David Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>13.
Adam Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>14.
Noah Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>15.
Joan Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>16.
Mary Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>17.
Susan T. Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>18.
Lee Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>20.
Molly Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>21.
Greg Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>22.
Jim Terrall, Cornwall, CT, USA
> >>23.
Lib Tobin, Cornwall, CT, USA
> >>24.
Robert Terrall, Sharon, CT, USA
> >>25.
Martha Porter, Sharon, CT, USA
> >>26.
Pamela Sexton, Watsonville, CA, USA
> >>27.
Curt Gabrielson, Watsonville, CA, USA
> >>28.
Azwar Hamid, Yogyakarta, Indonesia
> >>29.
Kristin Sundell, Cambridge, MA, USA
> >>30.
Larissa Snorek, San Francisco, CA, USA
> >>31.
Wendy Aniseh Khan, San Francisco, CA USA
> >>32.
Jesus Hermosillo, San Francisco CA USA
> >>33.
Art Fridrich, Chicago, IL USA
> >>34.
Kenneth Weeks, Palatka, FL USA
> >>35.
Juan Reardon, Martinez, CA
> >>36.
John A. Reardon, Martinez, CA
> >>37.
Rick Goldsmith, Berkeley, CA
> >>38.
Pat Goudvis, Boston, MA
> >>39.
Bill Turnley
> >>40.
Karen Branan
> >>41.
Terry Allen, Richmond, VT USA
> >>42.
Paul Garrin, New York, NY, USA
> >>43.
Arie Dirkzwager, NL.
> >44.
Rinaldo Rasa, Venezia, Italia.
> >
> >
> >Terry
Allen, editor
> >CAQ
> >1500
Massachusetts Ave. #732
>
>Washington, DC 20005, USA
>
>202-331-9763 voice
>
>202-331-9751 fax
>
>caq@igc.org e-mail
> >
> >
> >44 Old
Brooklyn Rd.
>
>Richmond, VT 05477
>
>802-434-3767
>
>tallen@igc.org personal e-mail
> >web
site: http://www.caq.com
> >
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:51:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joey Mellott
<peyotecoyote@IAH.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and the lettrists
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
-----Original
Message-----
From: Mark Ricard
<bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sunday,
February 22, 1998 12:52 AM
Subject: Re:
Burroughs and the lettrists
>Are the
letterists related to the deconstructionists?
> Jaces Lacan's works are very similat to
Burroughs on the abilty of
>lanugage to
affect the thought patterns.
I don't think the
two are related. The lettrists (which
eventually
dissolved into
two camps, Isou's lettrists and Debord's Lettrist
International)
began as a youth avant-garde movement dedicated to negation,
the destruction
of language, and redesigning architecture.
The two camps
were radically
different. Isou's group was most
concerned with mobilizing
the youth for
revolution, on the basis that, at least in the late '40's to
early '50's, the
"youth" were totally alienated in the capitalist market.
This makes Isou
an early prophet of youth culture.
Debord's faction, which
formed officially
in 1952 or 1953, was more interested in architecture as
the key to
molding emotion. They advocated a
"no work, all leisure" policy,
and the
destruction of a world based on only empty spectacle. If they are
related to the
deconstructionists, it's only by theory, not acquaintance.
Joey Mellott :
poet, writer, and jaded intellectual
peyotecoyote@iah.com
"I want God,
I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom,
I want goodness. I want sin." - Aldous Huxley
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:09:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote:
>> >
>> >
=== Just because Jesus said "Take,
eat, this is my body" does not mean
>> > he
intended ritual ceremonies with people lining up to eat
>> >
transubstantiated wafers.
>
>
>and Diane
Carter replied:
>
>> What
basis do you have for knowing what "he intended?"
>
>
>and JSH
responds:
>
>=== A
sentence that states "Just because X does not mean X" doesn't mean
>I am claiming
to know what Jesus intended. I am merely pointing out a
>lack of chain
of evidence for the Catholic's claim that they DO know
>what he
intended. I have no idea what he intended - and neither does
>anyone else.
Then your
original comment ought to have been "does not NECESARILY mean
he intended
ritual ceremonies..." rather than the specific "does not
mean..." you
did use.
But more
importantly you are shirking the meat of the response.
Diane points out
how Jesus said "do this in memory of me". Pretty clear in
this case this
ceremony did seem to be something Jesus intended to have
people continue.
Now, I said I
agreed with you n terms of a lot of this vis a vis
catholicism (talk
about a messed up setence on my part).
But this
particular claim isn't one of them for the above reason. But I do
agree that the
Catholic idea of transubstiation doesn't hold up at a
scriptural level
the same way that eating bread and drinking wine when
gathering
together does.
.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
>listening to
The Who's "Now I'm A Farmer"
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
peent@cyber2.servtech.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:29:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: F@*K Iraq
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
There is no
separation. Poetry, politics, life, death, violence, peace.
Allen's life was one of involvement with what was
happening out there in
the world and not
just on the pages of his journals and books. When it
comes to speaking
out, doing something about the atrocities that affect
real lives, how
much of a bother is a single post on Beat-l?
And below a poem
from Craig Czury concerning Iraq and Poets and how there
is no separation.
DIARY WITHOUT
NAMES
while they won't
show us the dead
or the weeping
and mangled faces between the rubble
~
while they
interview the heroic pilots
talking about
having met their objective
with the ease of
just having flown back from the video arcade
~
i want all you
5th graders to crouch down under your desks
for the next 15
minutes (15 days 15 centuries of saturation bombing)
~
i want you to
think about all the 5th grade-aged iraqi poets
at this moment
huddled under our bombs in bomb shelters
struggling to
find the exact words
we have struggled
all week in our poems
to express what
is happening to us now them in their lives
under our bombs
~
(at a time when
the world is speaking guns and missiles
we have the balls
to speak poetry? only children)
~
i would like to
dedicate today's poetry class
to the 39 year
old iraqi poet who made love last night
to a young iraqi
music student
between the
zippers and torn buttons of their clothes
in a crowded bomb
shelter (muffled implosion
with the last
spoken tremor a sigh)
~
friends
there is one of
you in every corner of this earth
--------------------------------------------------------Craig
Czury
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:35:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Dylan and the Beats]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I didn't see this
on the list, so I am forwarding on Al's response with
the links to his
site.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<blackj@bigmagic.com>
Received: from
bigmagic2.bigmagic.com ([207.142.218.2]) by mail.scsn.net
(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release
(PO205-101c)
ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with SMTP id
AAA189
for <bocelts@scsn.net>; Sun, 22
Feb 1998 12:04:38 -0500
Received: from
client-120-33.BELLATLANTIC.net (client-120-33.BELLATLANTIC.net
[151.198.120.33]) by bigmagic2.bigmagic.com
(NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id
za069419 for <bocelts@scsn.net>; Sun, 22
Feb 1998 11:58:15 -0500
Message-ID:
<34F05952.31E6@bigmagic.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb
1998 11:59:40 -0500
From: Al
Aronowitz <blackj@bigmagic.com>
Reply-To:
blackj@bigmagic.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
Subject: Re:
Dylan and the Beats
References:
<34EF03E7.6274305B@scsn.net>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
X-Info: Visit the
Internet Cafe On-Line at http://www.bigmagic.com.
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> Al
Aronowitz, who used to be on the list, played a big hand in
> introducing
Dylan to Ginsberg. I think there is a
story, or portion of
> the story on
his web page. If you have a real
interest in Dylan there
> are good
stories on Al's page about the Beatles and Dylan etc. Check it
> out at:
>
>
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/
>
> I will copy
Al with this post and ask, "Hey Al, even if you are not on
> the list
anymore, you can still post. Do you have
any comments on the
> influence
the Beats, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, or others had on
> Dylan? The topic is kinda going around. Also, if you could tell list
> members
exactly how to get to your stories about Dylan and Ginsberg, it
> might be
appreciated. Thanks."
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
BENTZ: As I recall, BG sites are (1) intro:
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column1.html
BEAT PAPERS OF AL
ARONOWITZ starts with
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column21.html
Beatles sites:
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column2.html--
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column16.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column17.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column18.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column19.html
Mick Jagger site
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column30.html
Grateful Dead
related Sites
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column2.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column5.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column6.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column10.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column12.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column14.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column20.html
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column22.html
Jimi Hendrix site
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column13.html
***************************************
Al Aronowitz THE
BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:56:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: T.S. Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Wishing doesn'nt
make it so. T.S. Eliot can't be
considered Beat in any
sense, even as an
influence. The Beats were neo-romantics;
Eliot
harkened back to
17th century neo-classical forms. The
Beats were
rebelling against
the kind of "new critical" Eliot inspired verse that
dominated English
departments in the 1940s and 1950s.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:00:48 -0600
Reply-To: nothingman@earthlink.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nathaniel Varner
<nothingman@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Voice of Harold
wrote:
>
> In the first
place, this is 1998. The planet is effectively under a
> rudimentary
technocratic police state. Petitions
serve NO purpose other
> than to
provide the Powers That Be with a handy list of the names of
> their
opponents.
>
> Secondly,
there is no point taking sides pro or con in the Clinton vs.
> Hussein
boxing match, because it is a fixed fight. The U.S.A. and Iraq
> are not
enemies. The U.S.A. provided Iraq with its weaponry in the
> 1980s, just
as we did with Iran and Libya. The U.S.A. didn't eliminate
> Saddam in
the Gulf War because we didn't WANT to, he's serving a PURPOSE
> for U.S.
interests by doing what he is doing.
>
> The
Government and the media continually belabor the point that the U.S.
> does not
remove dictators from power, and that the FBI somehow keeps
> tabs on the
CIA to make sure they don't overstep their boundaries. This
> is a lie of
Orwellian proportions. It is a freely admitted matter of
> historical
record that the U.S. Intelligence Community has had a hand in
> everything
from co-opting Nazi Scientists after WW2, overthrowing
> dictators
like Quirino, Arbenz, and Mossadegh, conducting secret
> operations
in Vietnam, Indonesia, Tibet, Haiti, etc. Meanwhile, certain
> dictators
like Hussein, Khadafy and Castro remain curiously untouchable.
> Why? Because
they are serving some purpose for certain American business
> interests
and Government. Qui Bono?
>
> The point
is, the zeit has been sewn up and the Eschaton is about to be
>
immanentized. Tanks will roll and bombs will fall wherever "they"
want
> them to, and
no piddly little petition is going to change that. Asking
> them for
Peace will get you the same response as Oliver Twist's request
> for gruel.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland
- Berea, KY
> stocking up
on MRE packs
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
a petition might
not mean shit, but remember, silence is acceptance.
fight the true
war.
peace.
nothingman
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:16:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: T.S. Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill:
My point, or
question is, what was Eliot doing with all his form? It is
gamesmanship. But is it not some form of avoidance or
something? As JK
said in THE
ORIGINS OF JOY IN POETRY "In spite of the dry rules he set down
his poetry is
itself sublime." And I agree. So, what is it that shines
through from
Eliot's poetry?
I believe that
despite Eliot's "negative rules like objective correlative,
etc." the
poetic spirit shown through and that maybe we should examine Eliot
from that point
and not the school that he created, or at least helped
create, and see
what the muse is saying through him.
I guess my
problem is that I don't know enough about his rules and
references to see
anything but the poetry.
I agree that the
Beats, primarily Ginsberg, tore down the house Eliot
built. And thank God. I just continue to struggle to understand why
Eliot
and Ginsberg
speak to me so strongly from two different perches. Perches
that are at war
with each other. There is much more to
Eliot than meets the
eye. I think it bears some analysis and while I
certainly agree with both
you and Diane
that Eliot is not "beat", my point was that perhaps this
aspect was
"surpressed" and shines through his structure, or in spite of the
structure. And is what shines through any different that
what is spoken by
Ginsberg and
others who are considered Beat. I am not
so sure that there is
difference in the
substance.
Just food for
thought.
Bill Gargan
wrote:
> Wishing
doesn'nt make it so. T.S. Eliot can't be
considered Beat in any
> sense, even
as an influence. The Beats were
neo-romantics; Eliot
> harkened
back to 17th century neo-classical forms.
The Beats were
> rebelling
against the kind of "new critical" Eliot inspired verse that
> dominated
English departments in the 1940s and 1950s.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:36:58 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> I have no
idea what Dylan's same sex experience was, but that seems to me to
be
> a
preposterous way to read "Just like a woman" which always seemed to me a
> brilliant
song about the way women, even pretty hip, seemingly tough ones,
have
> a tender and
breakable little girl inside. the
contrast is between woman and
> girl
You talk, just
like a woman
But you break,
like a little girl
JS
> i friend told me that his song, "just
like a woman" is actually
> about a sexual
incounter dylan had with a man.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:53:16 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Fw: How do I add my signature to the
petition?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META
content='"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:
</B>Leon
Tabory <<A
href="mailto:letabor@cruzio.com">letabor@cruzio.com</A>><BR><B>To:
</B><A
href="mailto:aried@XS4ALL.NL">aried@XS4ALL.NL</A>
<<A
href="mailto:aried@XS4ALL.NL">aried@XS4ALL.NL</A>><BR><B>Date:
</B>Sunday,
February 22, 1998
11:23 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>How do I add my signature to the
petition?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>So how do I add my name to the
petition?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>Leon Tabory</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>Dachau
alumnus</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML></x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
elk.uvm.edu: wgay owned process doing -bs
X-Sender:
wgay@elk.uvm.edu
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:00:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "William N. Gay"
<wgay@ZOO.UVM.EDU>
Subject: Re: F@*K Iraq
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Certainly if
Ginsberg were alive, he would've signed this petition at the
very least.
Hopefully connections to various individuals and lists will
yield a million
names!
On Sat, 21 Feb
1998, Sara Feustle wrote:
> Not like I'm
one to talk, but what the fuck does this SPAM have to do with
>
Beat-anything?! I mean, for real! --Sara
>
>
> At 05:38 PM
2/22/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998
12:59:39 +0100
>
>Sender: Discussions on
Philosophical Bases of Managing the Information
> > Society
<PHILS-VU@NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>
>From: Arie Dirkzwager
<aried@XS4ALL.NL>
>
>Subject: Re: <nettime>
Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
> >
> > I advise everyone to sign this
petition. The first Gulf war polluted
> >large
areas with radioactive uranium waste, many soldiers who fought there
> >are
suffering weird illnesses presumably caused by the weapons they used,
> >Iraq is
not the only state with mass-destructive chemical and biological
> >weapons
- others even have operational nuclear ones. I'm most certainly not
> >in
favour of Saddam and his politics, but there are more efficient ways of
> >getting
rid of him.
> >
> >Arie
> >
> >At 09:54
PM 2/22/98 +1100, you wrote:
> >
> >From:
terry allen <tallen@igc.org>
> >Subject:
<nettime> Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
> >
> >
> >People
of the World--
> >
> >If
appearances hold true, there will soon be another military
> >attack
under United Nations auspices on Iraqi territory. The following
> >petition
is a modest effort to encourage and focus opposition to the use
> >of
violence against Iraq. It is directed to
the United States
>
>government, and particularly to President William J. Clinton, because of
> >the
leading role played by the United States in encouraging a military
> >attack.
> >If you
support this effort, please add your name, home city, and
> >home
nation to the list and forward it to others.
Should you happen to
> >be the
100th, 200th, ..., or millionth person to sign, please forward a
> >copy to
peace@appleseed.spi.net. The assembled
names will be forwarded
> >electronically
to President Clinton and other US government officials.
> >They
will not be printed nor will they be used for any other purpose.
> >
> >Should
you wish to communicate with President Clinton, try any
> >of the
following:
> >
> >Address:
The White House
> > 1600 Pennsylvania Ave
> > Washington, DC 20500
> >Phone:
202-456-1414
> >Email:
president@whitehouse.gov
> >
> > US citizens may also wish to advise
their Congressional
>
>representatives of their positions.
Congressional representatives may
> >be
reached via mail by writing:
> >
>
>Representative <name> Senator <name>
> >US House
of Representatives US Senate
>
>Washington DC 20515 Washington DC 20510
> >
> >The
phone number of the Capitol switchboard is 202-224-3121; from there,
> >you can
reach the office of any Congressperson.
If you don't know who
> >your
Congressional representatives are, try
> >
>
>http://www.house.gov/writerep/ for Representatives and
>
>http://www.senate.gov/senator/state.html for Senators.
> >
>
>===================================================
> >
> >
> >>ONE
MILLION NAMES FOR PEACE
> >>
> >>To
President William J. Clinton and other officials of the government
> >>of
> >>the
United States of America:
> >>
> >>We,
the undersigned world citizens, strongly oppose any further
>
>>military
>
>>attacks against the nation of Iraq.
Past military campaigns have
>
>>already wrought unconscionable destruction that has primarily
>
>>affected
>
>>ordinary
>
>>citizens of Iraq and not personnel of the Iraqi government. The
>
>>rubric
> >>of
the United Nations should not be employed to justify further such
>
>>destruction. Please desist in
your efforts to execute another
>
>>military
>
>>strike. We desire that you
commit yourself to peaceful resolution of
>
>>existing conflicts with the government of Iraq.
> >>
>
>>1. Jamie Pehling, Garden Grove,
USA
>
>>2. Kelly Rittenhouse, Palo Alto,
USA
>
>>3. Tom Warner, Seattle, USA
>
>>4. Charles Scheiner, White
Plains, NY USA
>
>>5. Lynn Fredriksson, Washington
DC, USA
>
>>6. Ben Terrall, San Francisco,
CA, USA
>
>>7. Thomas Johnson, San
Francisco, CA, USA
>
>>8. Clare Campbell, San
Francisco, CA, USA
>
>>9. John Fitzgerald, San
Francisco, CA, USA
> >>10.
Hiram Kato, San Francisco, CA, USA
> >>11.
George Fox, San Francisco, CA, USA
> >>12.
David Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>13.
Adam Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>14.
Noah Politzer, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>15.
Joan Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>16.
Mary Terrall, Altadena, CA, USA
> >>17.
Susan T. Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>18.
Lee Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>20.
Molly Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>21.
Greg Simon, New York, NY, USA
> >>22.
Jim Terrall, Cornwall, CT, USA
> >>23.
Lib Tobin, Cornwall, CT, USA
> >>24.
Robert Terrall, Sharon, CT, USA
> >>25.
Martha Porter, Sharon, CT, USA
> >>26.
Pamela Sexton, Watsonville, CA, USA
> >>27.
Curt Gabrielson, Watsonville, CA, USA
> >>28. Azwar
Hamid, Yogyakarta, Indonesia
> >>29.
Kristin Sundell, Cambridge, MA, USA
> >>30.
Larissa Snorek, San Francisco, CA, USA
> >>31.
Wendy Aniseh Khan, San Francisco, CA USA
> >>32.
Jesus Hermosillo, San Francisco CA USA
> >>33.
Art Fridrich, Chicago, IL USA
> >>34.
Kenneth Weeks, Palatka, FL USA
> >>35.
Juan Reardon, Martinez, CA
> >>36.
John A. Reardon, Martinez, CA
> >>37.
Rick Goldsmith, Berkeley, CA
> >>38.
Pat Goudvis, Boston, MA
> >>39.
Bill Turnley
> >>40.
Karen Branan
> >>41.
Terry Allen, Richmond, VT USA
> >>42.
Paul Garrin, New York, NY, USA
> >>43.
Arie Dirkzwager, NL.
> >44.
Rinaldo Rasa, Venezia, Italia.
> >
> >
> >Terry
Allen, editor
> >CAQ
> >1500
Massachusetts Ave. #732
>
>Washington, DC 20005, USA
>
>202-331-9763 voice
>
>202-331-9751 fax
>
>caq@igc.org e-mail
> >
> >
> >44 Old
Brooklyn Rd.
>
>Richmond, VT 05477
>
>802-434-3767
>
>tallen@igc.org personal e-mail
> >web
site: http://www.caq.com
> >
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:34:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: F@*K Iraq
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Certainly if
Ginsberg were alive, he would've signed this petition at the
>very least.
Hopefully connections to various individuals and lists will
>yield a
million names!
Ginsberg did not
have a good track record in not being fooled into
supporting
despots. Nothing personal against
Ginsberg, he even admitted it
later.
The poem about
the 39 year old Iraqi poet and and the affair with the music
student (a
complete fabrication fantasy I assume) left out the part where
they would be
punished for adultery etc...
I cannot take a
poem like that seriously any more than I would take a poem
of opposite
political timbre seriously.
A lot of these
pro-peace types of poems or petitions remind me of the
Tibetans or
Indians of America who thought some sort of magic charms could
protect them as
they were mowed down with bullets.
If we all sign
this petition we will be protected...
[And please note
I am making no statement on the potential bombing of Iraq
one way or the
other in terms of being for it or against it in this post]
>On Sat, 21
Feb 1998, Sara Feustle wrote:
>
>> Not like
I'm one to talk, but what the fuck does this SPAM have to do with
>>
Beat-anything?! I mean, for real! --Sara
>>
I would say I am
closer to Sara's point of view in this than the other.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:59:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: pome: delete at will: my father's
billfold
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I very much like
your poem. Very sad... again... it seems like the only poems
you post are sad!
Let's see some happy stuff. :) And happy birthday!
--Stephanie
Three Laments
Diane di Prima
1.
Alas
I believe
I might have
become
a great writer
but
the chairs
in the library
were too hard
2.
I have
the upper hand
but if I keep it
I'll lose the
circulation
in one arm
3.
So here I am the
coolest in New York
what dont swing I
don't push.
In some Elysian
field
by a big tree
I chew my pride
like cud.
(That was just a
random poem for y'all. --S.)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:25:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: religion, again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> J. Perchuk
wrote:
> Besides--if
it's SO uncool to be Catholic (I can't believe that I, as
> an
> atheist,
have to play devil's advocate here---the irony is
>
DELICIOUS)--then
> explain to
me Keroauc's complex involvement with it. I mean--that's >
> what all
these posts are about--right?
Consider this
section from Desolation Angels where he considers what it
means to wear the
cross.
"I just sit
with a quart of beer and dont look at anyone--the only thing
that attracts my
attention from out of my thoughts is that beautiful
silver crucifix
Raphael's been wearing around his neck, and I mention
it--
'Then it's yours!' and he takes it off and
hands it to me--'Really,
truly, take
it!'...
It has a little
silver chain, I pass it over my head and under my collar
and wear the
cross--I feel strangely glad--Meantime Raphael has been
reading the
Diamondcutter of the Wise Vow (Diamond Sutra) that I
paraphrased on
Desolation, has it on his lap. 'Do you understand it
Raphael?' There
you'll find everything there is to know'...
Finally I read
sections of it to the party to take their minds off the
girl jealousies--
'Subhuti, living ones who know, in teaching
meaning to others, should
first be free
themselves from all the frustrating desires aroused by
beautiful sights,
pleasant sounds, sweet tastes, fragrance, soft
tangibles, and
tempting thoughts. In their practice of generosity,
they
should not be
blindly influenced by any of these intriguing shows. And
why? Because, if
in their practice of generosity they are not blindly
influenced by
such things they will pass through a bliss and merit what
is beyond
calculation and beyond imagining...'
I wake up in the
morning with my cross around my neck, I realize what
thicks and thins
I'll have to wear this through, and ask myself 'What
would Catholics
and Christians say about me wearing the cross to ball and
to drink like
this?--but what would Jesus say if I went up to him and
said 'May I wear
Your cross in this world as it is?'
No matter what happens, may I wear your
cross?--are there many kinds of
purgatories not?
'...not blindly influenced...'"
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:35:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Voice of Harold
wrote:
>
> In the first
place, this is 1998. The planet is effectively under a
> rudimentary
technocratic police state. Petitions
serve NO purpose other
> than to
provide the Powers That Be with a handy list of the names of
> their
opponents.
>
No , petitions
help people understand where they stand and are often the
first step in
doing the right thing. They are
effective tools for the
individual to use
as a beginning focus. to act is to start
to learn.
or no i disagree,
i would prefer to sign and identify myself so some one
else is not
standing alone.
patricia
> Secondly,
there is no point taking sides pro or con in the Clinton vs.
> Hussein
boxing match, because it is a fixed fight. The U.S.A. and Iraq
> are not
enemies. The U.S.A. provided Iraq with its weaponry in the
> 1980s, just
as we did with Iran and Libya. The U.S.A. didn't eliminate
> Saddam in
the Gulf War because we didn't WANT to, he's serving a PURPOSE
> for U.S.
interests by doing what he is doing.
>
> The
Government and the media continually belabor the point that the U.S.
> does not
remove dictators from power, and that the FBI somehow keeps
> tabs on the
CIA to make sure they don't overstep their boundaries. This
> is a lie of
Orwellian proportions. It is a freely admitted matter of
> historical
record that the U.S. Intelligence Community has had a hand in
> everything
from co-opting Nazi Scientists after WW2, overthrowing
> dictators
like Quirino, Arbenz, and Mossadegh, conducting secret
> operations
in Vietnam, Indonesia, Tibet, Haiti, etc. Meanwhile, certain
> dictators
like Hussein, Khadafy and Castro remain curiously untouchable.
> Why? Because
they are serving some purpose for certain American business
> interests
and Government. Qui Bono?
>
> The point
is, the zeit has been sewn up and the Eschaton is about to be
>
immanentized. Tanks will roll and bombs will fall wherever "they"
want
> them to, and
no piddly little petition is going to change that. Asking
> them for
Peace will get you the same response as Oliver Twist's request
> for gruel.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland
- Berea, KY
> stocking up
on MRE packs
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:37:30 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dortmunder <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: religion, again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Perchuk
wrote:
> Or is it
that some folks
> think 'Beatness'
is too hip and counter-culture to take something as
> conventional
as Catholicism that seriously?
=== I thought
this went without saying.
> (remember my
comment to Bill about anti-Catholicism being a
> 'politically
correct' type of bigotry?) Well, I'm not saying folks
> here are
bigots.
=== Good. Because
being against an organization is not analogous to
bigotry. Even if
it's a religious organization like the Vatican.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland - KY
drinking amaretto
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:48:30 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Amstel <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Perchuk
wrote:
> I say,
discuss it if it has any relevance to the Beat thing. If it
> does...well,
then, okay. But if it doesn't--then why are we
> bothering
with it at all?
=== Because
"the Beat thing" encompasses all of life. Tomorrow we may
discuss civil
rights, bricklaying, and Mexican coins.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - - Berea, KY
listening to The
Jam's "Pretty Green"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:07:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: T.S. Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think both of
us agree that Eliot is one of the greatest poets in the
English
language. Ginsberg and Eliot may have
very different aesthetic
approaches but
they both write poetry that strikes us as being true and
beautiful. Most people who can recognize good poetry,
it seems to me,
can appreciate
both styles, even if they like one better than the other.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:20:57 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
J.S.Holland -
Berea, KY wrote:
>In the first
place, this is 1998. The planet is effectively under a
>rudimentary
technocratic police state. Petitions
serve NO purpose other
>than to
provide the Powers That Be with a handy list of the names of
>their
opponents.
>
>Secondly, there
is no point taking sides pro or con in the Clinton vs.
>Hussein
boxing match, because it is a fixed fight.
People who were
organizing and demonstrating in Columbus, Ohio during the
Vietnam War--and
I hope no one thinks that anti-war activities didn't play
a big hand in
bringing that conflict to an end--were also involved in the
demonstations the
other day. The public's response to the pitch Clinton's
team was making
to the world was broadcast LIVE. Clinton figured he had the
public behind him
for another quick, sugical strike at Iraq and screw any
civilians that
got in the way.
The response from
Middle America-- from DEMONSTRATORS--forced Clinton to
pull back and
lighten up.
I can understand your cynicism; however, there
have been major
demonstrations in
cities right across the country. Damn poor press coverage
(Yawn), but the
Internet is really humming and Clinton--even though he
badly misjudged
Columbus--watches the polls.
When someone
complains about a petition opposing
senseless aggression not
having a place on
the Beat List I can only say, "Read a little less Jack
Keroauc and a
little more Angela Davis."
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:21:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: religion, again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In 'Satori in
Paris', Kerouac said "I love God", I believe. His
relationship with
catholcism and Buddhism has always been interesting to
me.
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:34:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk <legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: T.S. Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:07 PM
2/22/98 EST, you wrote:
>I think both
of us agree that Eliot is one of the greatest poets in the
>English
language. Ginsberg and Eliot may have
very different aesthetic
>approaches
but they both write poetry that strikes us as being true and
>beautiful. Most people who can recognize good poetry,
it seems to me,
>can
appreciate both styles, even if they like one better than the other.
>
>
Bill - I see NO
connection whatsoever between what Eliot was doing as a poet
and what was
happening with the Beats--can you see Ginsberg taking Eliot's
"objective
correlative" to heart? I mean, that's the same constipated, tired,
old,
anachronistic theorizing that was choking the life out of English
poetry--the very
thing that Williams and Ginsberg were trying to avoid. In
Ginsberg's case,
he certainly couldn't ignore the place that Eliot held in
the modern poetic
tradition--but that's a far cry indeed from feeling some
kind of
meaningful kinship with him--if anything, he had more in common with
Pound--something
he acknowledged many times. Maybe Ginsberg appreciated
Eliot's
descriptions of the barrenness and sterility of modern life--but I
don't know what
he could've seen beyond that. The "objective correlative"
strikes me as a
bit too formulaic and calculating for someone like Ginsberg
and the other
Beats--although, in Eliot's time, it may have been appreciated
for its emphasis
on desciptive concreteness in poetry.
Still and all,
Ginsberg would
have felt (I think) that the objective correlative was
basically
insincere because it presupposed that certain objects and
situations are
"formulas" for emotion--which they are not. Ginsberg's
expansiveness,
his Whitmanic disregard for the "formulaic" approach, and his
emotional
bluntness were COMPLETELY out of step with what Eliot was doing.
So how then could
you really say Eliot was "Beat" ?
The truth is, you
can't. I think people had better go back and take a good,
LONG look at what
Eliot was doing as a poet. Even if some of the Beats
looked up to and
acknowledged Eliot's contribution to modern poetry--that
doesn't mean that
he was 'Beat' -- this is just a case of mistaken identity
that could easily
be cleared up by spending a few hours with any good poetry
anthology.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:43:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeff said to
Bill:
> So how then
could you really say Eliot was "Beat" ?
>
> The truth
is, you can't.
>
Jeff, Bill said,
in response to me, that Eliot is not beat.
I then
replied and the
reply by Bill is to my comments. In this
post, he was
merely stating
the points on which he and I agreed. So,
not that it
really matters,
but to keep the record straight, your comments really
should be
directed to me.
And no one in
this dialogue has denied what you say. I
was arguing that
maybe there was
something "beat" hidden inside his work. He was a force
for Ginsberg to
struggle against and in this fashion helped create the
atmosphere that
gave birth to what we call the beats.
So where does
that leave me, not in disagreement with you, Bill or Diane
really, just
wondering if there is not another way to look at Eliot than
what we have been
taught. Eliot labored in some ways to
create this
form. I believe it was Charles Plymell that pointed
out that Eliot had
to have his
poetry edited by Pound. Since I am
"self educated" in the
poetry arena, I
was not aware of this and find it somewhat curious as
well. But, there was something in Eliot's poetry
that reaches out
beyond the things
he did to hem it in and define it. I am
not really
sure it is any
different ultimately than the Beats.
As stated before,
I am attempting to develope an better understanding of
why Ginsberg and
Eliot are my favorite poets as they seem, on the
surface to be so
different.
Take care,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:13:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: (FWD)Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
count me in
45. Mark RIcard
Monroeville,PA
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:49:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:43 PM
2/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Jeff said to
Bill:
>
>> So how
then could you really say Eliot was "Beat" ?
>>
>> The
truth is, you can't.
>>
>Jeff, Bill
said, in response to me, that Eliot is not beat. I then
>replied and
the reply by Bill is to my comments. In
this post, he was
>merely
stating the points on which he and I agreed.
So, not that it
>really
matters, but to keep the record straight, your comments really
>should be
directed to me.
>
>And no one in
this dialogue has denied what you say. I
was arguing that
>maybe there
was something "beat" hidden inside his work. He was a force
>for Ginsberg
to struggle against and in this fashion helped create the
>atmosphere that
gave birth to what we call the beats.
>
>So where does
that leave me, not in disagreement with you, Bill or Diane
>really, just
wondering if there is not another way to look at Eliot than
>what we have
been taught. Eliot labored in some ways
to create this
>form. I believe it was Charles Plymell that pointed
out that Eliot had
>to have his
poetry edited by Pound. Since I am
"self educated" in the
>poetry arena,
I was not aware of this and find it somewhat curious as
>well. But, there was something in Eliot's poetry
that reaches out
>beyond the
things he did to hem it in and define it.
I am not really
>sure it is
any different ultimately than the Beats.
>
>As stated
before, I am attempting to develope an better understanding of
>why Ginsberg
and Eliot are my favorite poets as they seem, on the
>surface to be
so different.
>
>Take care,
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
My apologies for
the confusion, Bentz--regardless of where the comments
should have been
directed--the point remains the same. Of course, I'm glad
to see that we
agree--but I still don't think that Eliot had much in common
with the Beats as
such, and also--your point that Eliot was somewhat to be
credited with
helping the movement along because he was the obstacle that
the Beats had to
overcome--well, I think that's a stretch. Using that logic,
you could say
that ANYONE who opposed the Beats was instrumental in helping
them to
develop--and that could include people like Norman Podhoretz, Herb
Caen and Herbert
Gold as well. Would you call those guys "Beat" or "square"?
(by the standards
of the day, that is). Still, you raise an interesting
point--how deeply
rooted Ginsberg & co. were in the traditions they tried to
subvert and
replace. Now THAT is a point worth considering and exploring.
Thanks for the
input.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:53:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:20 PM
2/22/98 -0600, you wrote:
>J.S.Holland -
Berea, KY wrote:
>
>>In the
first place, this is 1998. The planet is effectively under a
>>rudimentary
technocratic police state. Petitions serve
NO purpose other
>>than to
provide the Powers That Be with a handy list of the names of
>>their
opponents.
>>
>>Secondly,
there is no point taking sides pro or con in the Clinton vs.
>>Hussein
boxing match, because it is a fixed fight.
>
>People who
were organizing and demonstrating in Columbus, Ohio during the
>Vietnam
War--and I hope no one thinks that anti-war activities didn't play
>a big hand in
bringing that conflict to an end--were also involved in the
>demonstations
the other day. The public's response to the pitch Clinton's
>team was
making to the world was broadcast LIVE. Clinton figured he had the
>public behind
him for another quick, sugical strike at Iraq and screw any
>civilians
that got in the way.
>
>The response
from Middle America-- from DEMONSTRATORS--forced Clinton to
>pull back and
lighten up.
>
>I can understand your cynicism; however, there
have been major
>demonstrations
in cities right across the country. Damn poor press coverage
>(Yawn), but
the Internet is really humming and Clinton--even though he
>badly
misjudged Columbus--watches the polls.
>
>When someone
complains about a petition opposing
senseless aggression not
>having a
place on the Beat List I can only say, "Read a little less Jack
>Keroauc and a
little more Angela Davis."
>
>j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
>
>
Look--I'm not big
on the military move against Saddam, either. But is this
the place to take
it up? If you think the discussion on JK and Catholicism
generated some
bad feeling--well, this could be even more contentious. I
say, discuss it
if it has any relevance to the Beat thing. If it
does...well,
then, okay. But if it doesn't--then why are we bothering with
it at all?
Just a thought.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:02:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: religion, again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 08:21 PM
2/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>In 'Satori in
Paris', Kerouac said "I love God", I believe. His
>relationship
with catholcism and Buddhism has always been interesting to
>me.
>
>********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>world.--Archimedes*********
>
>
Yes--it is
interesting, I think. In fact, what's REALLY interesting is that
you can be a good
Buddhist and be a Jew or even an atheist. Why not a
Catholic? People
(some of them, anyway) seem a little irked because Keroauc
WAS so devoutly
Catholic, especially at the end. Or is it that some folks
think 'Beatness'
is too hip and counter-culture to take something as
conventional as
Catholicism that seriously? (remember my comment to Bill
about
anti-Catholicism being a 'politically correct' type of bigotry?) Well,
I'm not saying
folks here are bigots. They're not, of course. What I'm
saying is...the
Catholic element in Keroauc's life--and his writing--is one
more interesting
angle to be explored. For those people who had unfortunate
parochial school
experiences (yeah, I had them too although I'm a Jew and it
happened in the
synagogue)--well, is it Keroauc's Catholicism you're talking
about--or is it
your own?
More food for
thought, eh?
J. Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:18:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: religion, again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:37 PM
2/22/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Jeffrey
Perchuk wrote:
>
>> Or is it
that some folks
>> think
'Beatness' is too hip and counter-culture to take something as
>>
conventional as Catholicism that seriously?
>
>=== I thought
this went without saying.
>
>
>
>>
(remember my comment to Bill about anti-Catholicism being a
>>
'politically correct' type of bigotry?) Well, I'm not saying folks
>> here are
bigots.
>
>=== Good.
Because being against an organization is not analogous to
>bigotry. Even
if it's a religious organization like the Vatican.
>
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>J.S.Holland -
KY
>drinking
amaretto
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
It's good that
you said that--but remember also that I am an atheist, so I
have no great
allegiance to Catholic dogma--but I DO have a great respect
for fairness.
It's just that I'm reminded of a co-worker who remarked to
me--with a
straight face--that Mother Theresa was a "dangerous woman." Why,
I asked her? She
replied that "She's against abortion--and people LISTEN to
what she
says." Well, golly gee--I guess she's just going to have to trust
people to make up
their own minds--what could be more condescending and
patronizing than
that? To assume that people are SO weak-minded that they'll
follow blindly
the words of a prominent spiritual leader? The comment was so
loony on the face
of it, that I didn't press the issue. But it WAS a rather
peculiar thing to
about a woman who has spent the better part of her life
doing things that
would be unthinkable for the rest of us. I mean, when I
think of people
who are dangerous--I think of O.J. Simpson, Ted Kaczynski,
Jeffrey Dahmer or
Bill Clinton (only if you're a White House intern, I
guess)--but
Mother Theresa? PUH-LEEZE. It's THAT kind of silly, dogmatic, PC
type thinking
that masquerades as "progressivism"--and which would GLADLY
deny Catholics
their First Amendment freedoms on the grounds that their
brand of religion
spreads "hatred" (I live in NYC--we have a VERY militant
gay community
that blames the Catholic Church for everything from AIDS to
the hole in the
ozone layer). I mean, the Church is retrograde and static,
yes, I admit--but
there are more dangerous folks floating around the good
ole USA. And I
know very well that to criticize the Church is not to show
"hatred"
for it. But check out some of the comments of the folks on this
list--and the
underlying emotionalism. There's definitely something else
going on here
besides a theological dispute.
Besides--if it's
SO uncool to be Catholic (I can't believe that I, as an
atheist, have to
play devil's advocate here---the irony is DELICIOUS)--then
explain to me
Keroauc's complex involvement with it. I mean--that's what all
these posts are about--right?
J.
Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:21:49 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: (FWD)Don't Bomb Iraq Petition
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Add Michael R.
Brown, Burlingame, California
Add Karena
Aslanian, San Jose, California
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:23:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:48 PM
2/22/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Jeffrey
Perchuk wrote:
>
>> I say,
discuss it if it has any relevance to the Beat thing. If it
>>
does...well, then, okay. But if it doesn't--then why are we
>>
bothering with it at all?
>
>=== Because
"the Beat thing" encompasses all of life. Tomorrow we may
>discuss civil
rights, bricklaying, and Mexican coins.
>
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - - Berea, KY
>listening to
The Jam's "Pretty Green"
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
As cynical as it
may sound--I've done my part for civil rights, I have no
interest in
Mexican coins, and no talent for bricklaying. I took my lumps
from cops with
tape over their badges a long time ago during any number of
pro-peace and
pro-civil rights demonstration back in the sixties. My biggest
political concern
now is censorship--which, by the way, is a big part of
this thing with
Saddam and Iraq. Now that I'm in my mid-40's, I'll let
somebody stand on
the barricades and get their head kicked in. I wish them
well, I'll even
give 'em some $ towards their bail if need be--but I'm a
little more
focused now. Good luck to you.
Jeff
Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:26:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "POMES, PENNY EACH."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Death of a hipster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: MX%"knoxcat@baileygrp.com"
22-FEB-1998 23:21:45.63
To: MX%"breithau@kenyon.edu"
CC:
Subj: hip
Obit from the
NYTimes
February 22, 1998
Anton Rosenberg, 71, a Hipster Ideal
By ROBERT McG. THOMAS Jr.
EW YORK -- Anton Rosenberg, a storied
sometime artist and occasional
musician who
embodied the
Greenwich Village hipster ideal of
1950s cool to such a laid-back
degree and with
such determined
detachment
that he never amounted to much of
anything, died Feb. 14 at a hospital
near his home
in Woodstock,
N.Y. He was
71 and best known as the model for the
character Julian Alexander in Jack
Kerouac's
novel "The
Subterraneans."
The cause was cancer, his family said.
He was a painter of acknowledged talent,
and he played the piano with such
finesse
that he jammed
with Charlie
Parker, Zoot Sims and other jazz
luminaries of the day.
But if Rosenberg never made a name for
himself in either art or music --
or pushed
himself to try --
there was a
reason: once he had been viewed in his
hipster glory, leaning languidly
against a
car parked in
front of Fugazzi's bar
on the Avenue of the Americas, there was
simply nothing more he could do
to enhance
his reputation.
For as Kerouac recognized, Rosenberg in
his 20s, a thin, unshaven, quiet
and strange
young man of such
dark good
looks that he was frequently likened to
the French actor Gerard Philipe,
was the
epitome of hip,
an extreme esthetic
that shunned enthusiasm, scorned ambition
and ridiculed achievement.
It was Kerouac's friend Allen Ginsberg
who discovered Fugazzi's and its
coterie of
hipsters of such
bedrock cool
that he dubbed them the subterraneans, a
term Kerouac adopted as the title
of his
book published in
1958.
Like other Kerouac works, the book, which
was written in 1953, is the most
thinly
disguised of
fictions, one whose
most striking deception was shifting its
locale from New York to San
Francisco to
protect the
publisher from any
libel action by the very real Greenwich
Village regulars who populated its
pages
under fictitious
names. To
Kerouac, they were cynosures of cool.
"They are hip without being
slick," he wrote. "They are intelligent
without being
corny, they are
intellectual as hell
and know all about Pound without being
pretentious or talking too much
about it,
they are very
quiet, they are very
Christlike."
As for Rosenberg, or Julian Alexander, as
he was called, he was "the angel
of the
subterraneans,"
a loving man of
compelling gentleness, or as Kerouac put
it: "Julian Alexander certainly
is
Christlike."
By the time he made the Greenwich Village
scene, Rosenberg, a native of
Brooklyn
whose father was
a wealthy
industrialist, had served a year in the
Army, studied briefly at the
University of
North Carolina
and spent a year in
Paris, ostensibly studying art on the GI
Bill but in reality soaking up
the Left
Bank bohemian
atmosphere and
haunting the Cafe Flore and the Cafe Deux
Magots with James Baldwin, Terry
Southern
and other
incipient icons of
American cool.
Back in New York by 1950, Rosenberg
opened a print shop on Christopher
Street and
plunged into the
hip world
centered on the San Remo at Bleecker and
Macdougal Streets.
He lived for a while in the East 11th
Street tenement Ginsberg called
Paradise
Valley and had
such an instinct for
future chic that he was one of the first
artists to move to an industrial
loft in a
bleak
neighborhood below Canal
Street years before it became the
fashionable Tribeca.
In a different life, Rosenberg might have
used the loft to turn out
masterpieces.
But as an
ultimate hipster he had
other priorities, which became apparent
one famous Halloween night when
the crew,
alerted to a
shipment from
Exotic Plant Co. of Laredo, Texas, peeled
off from the San Remo and
congregated in
the loft for an
all-night peyote
party cum jam session.
Drugs, of course, were more than an
accouterment of hip. They were its
very essence.
And while
marijuana, then an
exotic drug used only by jazz musicians,
was universal among the stoned
cool
hipsters, it was
heroin that set the
subterraneans apart.
Rosenberg, who appears as a character in
William Burroughs' book "Junkie,"
was an
addict for most
of his adult
life, which might help explain why he never
made a name for himself in art
or music
or held a regular
job after his
print shop failed in the 1960s.
Fortunately, Rosenberg, whose survivors
include his wife, Joan, and a
brother, Ross,
of Orlando, Fla.,
had the
foresight to marry a schoolteacher so
enamored of his charming, creative
ways that
she cheerfully
supported the
family while Rosenberg continued to
paint, play music, amuse his friends
and family.
He also served as a surprisingly
effective role model for his three sons:
Shaun, a
Manhattan
restaurateur who owns
Orson's on Second Avenue; Matthew, a
computer consultant from the Bronx,
and Jeremy,
of Manhattan, a
New
York City police detective who
specializes in drug enforcement.
Home | Sections | Contents | Search |
Forums | Help
Copyright 1998 The New York Times
Company
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<knoxcat@baileygrp.com>
Received: from
nt1.baileygrp.com by kcvax3.kenyon.edu (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP;
Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:21:35 EST
Received: from
modem-207-123-158-124.gambier.baileygrp.com
(modem-207-123-158-124.gambier.baileygrp.com
[207.123.158.124]) by
nt1.baileygrp.com (NTMail
3.03.0014/7.aawu) with ESMTP id aa046618
for <breithau@kenyon.edu>; Sun,
22 Feb 1998 23:09:58 -0500
Message-ID:
<34F0F854.E6F639EF@baileygrp.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb
1998 23:17:24 -0500
From: george
breithaupt <knoxcat@baileygrp.com>
Reply-To:
knoxcat@baileygrp.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "THE
ZET'S GOOD." <breithau@kenyon.edu>
Subject: hip
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:35:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Happy Trails
Comments: cc:
stauffer@PACBELL.NET
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
James Stauffer
wrote:
>
> Dear Beat-L
>
> I think it
is time for me to leave for awhile.
i will miss your
posts. check back in. the ebb and flow has been
uneven and too
many thoughtless post, especially by me. more courtesy,
more thought less
flame is needed. I would love to discuss
the man who
taught his ass hole
to talk in relation to respecting all religous and
government
institutions.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:41:24 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: FU*K IRAQ
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Well, Gyenis,
er... um... I'm glad my message from a long time ago inspired
you. *grin* I
especially like the "FUCK THE WORLD" part. --Sara
At 04:07 AM
2/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>FU*CK IRAQ
>____________
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET OFF
>
>FU*CK THE WORLD
> I WANT TO GET ON
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET FU*CKED
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I CAN'T GET FU*CKED
>CAUSE AFTER
ALL
> I AIN'T THE FU*CKEN PRESIDENT
>
>SO NOW I SAY
> FU*CK IRAQ
>
>AND I'LL
FU*CK THE REST OF THE WORLD
> LATER....
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:35:59 -0500
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: Smile on Yr Brother
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey list!
I've been writing
research papers since 8am yesterday and was inspired
by the
speculation about what Jack, Bill, and Allen would say about the
Iraq BS. My opinion is that Jack would've said
"Nuke Em!" given his
Buckleyesque
inclinations during life. Allen would've
taken what I
would consider an
obscure political stance (solving nothing -- I'm
currently
frustrated with his ideaologies as I learn more). Bill
would've been
intelligent about it, realizing the legitimacy of the
issues the US
raises, while still respecting the smoke screen that it is
for the
Whitehouse. There's just something that
tells me that he
would've been for
a good explosion or two. So, given the
inspiration
that I am
"suffering," I present my pome.
It's a farce, both on beat
poetry, the
issue, and the writers. Forgive me.
Dessert Souffle
Jack Kerouac,
the drunken
buddhist sage
said "Let s
bomb Iraq,
back to the stone
age!"
And then there s
Allen,
our beat-zen
daddy
said "Castro
s cool,
but Saddam is a
baddy"
But oh, for Bill,
tired of the
kicks,
said "teach
Iraqis
to make fire from
sticks"
thanks
--
"~God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
neverlived and
neverdied. That we should only learn it now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it is
already done, there's no more to do."
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:58:51 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: pome: delete at will: my father's
billfold
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
stephanie: thanks
for the diprima, nice birthday gift. i only write sad pomes,
some bittersweet,
a few innocent child like. but mostly sad
mc
Zucchini4@AOL.COM
wrote:
> I very much
like your poem. Very sad... again... it seems like the only poems
> you post are
sad! Let's see some happy stuff. :) And happy birthday!
>
> --Stephanie
>
> Three
Laments
> Diane di Prima
>
> 1.
> Alas
> I believe
> I might have
become
> a great
writer
> but
> the chairs
> in the
library
> were too
hard
>
> 2.
> I have
> the upper
hand
> but if I
keep it
> I'll lose
the circulation
> in one arm
>
> 3.
> So here I am
the coolest in New York
> what dont
swing I don't push.
>
> In some
Elysian field
> by a big
tree
> I chew my
pride
> like cud.
>
> (That was
just a random poem for y'all. --S.)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by SOLAIR.EUnet.yu id
GAA28875
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:06:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>
Subject: Re: pome: delete at will: my father's
billfold
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> companion
piece to 'my father's eyes' in which these photos were
> mentioned.
and yes, they literally came in the mail yesterday.
>
> my father's
billfold
>
> delivered to
my door today
> photos from
his wife
> the ones he
kept in all billfolds
> he carried
all his life.
>
> my father
can't recognize
> nor remember
> -if he ever
had a billfold-
> -if he ever
had a family-
> - a son, a
wife, or me.
> the irony:
> just as in
life, now in his dying,
> he was
always absentee.
>
> the photos -
cracked, stained,
> fading with
sweat and age
> black and
white now sepia
> but we all
look the same
> me at five
> my brother
at eight
> and our
mother - his wife.
>
> i look at me
looking at me:
> i can barely
remember this child
> of five
> with the
huge brown eyes
> full of
secrets,
> full of
sadness,
> frozen in
time.
>
> i adored my
dad, and
> had so
little of him,
> and yet it
just occurs to me
> that if i
lacked him,
> he always
had me -
> in his
pocket in his billfold,
> a paper doll
family.
>
> with me in
his billfold,
> we sat on countless
barstools,
> in his way
together,
> he forever
drinking
> me forever
hopeful,
> forever
frozen,
> forever
five.
>
> (c) marie
countryman 2/22/98(on her 45th birthday)
.
another beautiful
one
though it is
already late to wish you a happy birthday, it is not late
to wish you a
beautiful, sunny&funny, creative, poetic and loving year
until your next
birthday, and the next, etc.
ksenija
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:12:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: pome: delete at will: my father's billfold
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ksenija:
thank you.
could you please
contact me direct at country@sover.net?
thanks
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
IAA10206
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:31:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: mc again draft 2, delte at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i plan to read my
father's eyes/my father's billfold and the insomnia
pome next week.
thank you. i
wrote the pome with the photos spread out in front of me,
they really did
arrive in the mail.
as for the list,
some youngster wrote that 'all your pomes are sad,
write a happy
one!
believe me yr
decision is a good one. i stay on because of a few folks
from netherlands,
scandinavia, who don't post often but who are looking
into translating
my pomes. now ain't that a kick. no publishing here,
but ....
marie
and yes, it is as
real as it gets. i cried my way through the writing of
it.
be well my friend
marie
James Stauffer
wrote:
> Marie,
>
> This is an
amazing poem. I will need to spend more
time with it, but
> it is as
real as it gets. Blood and emotional
guts. Which is what
> you do, my
dear. Amazing
>
> James
>
> Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
> > Marie
Countryman wrote:
> >
> > >
this is the piece that completes 'my father's eyes'
> > >
first draft
> > > my
father's billfold
> > >
> > >
delivered to my door today
> > >
photos from his wife
> > >
the ones he kept in all billfolds
> > > he
carried all his life.
> > >
> > > my
father can't remember
> > >
-if he ever had a billfold-
> > >
-if he ever had a family-
> > > -
a son, a wife, or me.
> > >
the irony:
> > >
just as in life, now in his dying,
> > > he
was always absentee.
> > >
> > >
the photos - cracked, stained,
> > >
fading with sweat and age
> > >
black and white now sepia
> > >
but we all look the same
> > > me
at five
> > > my
brother at eight
> > >
and our mother - his wife.
> > >
> > > i
look at me looking at me:
> > > i
can barely remember this child
> > > of
five
> > >
with the huge brown eyes
> > >
full of secrets,
> > >
full of sadness,
> > >
frozen in time.
> > >
> > > i
adored my dad, and
> > >
had so little of him,
> > >
and yet it just occurs to me
> > >
that if i bemoaned the lack of him,
> > > he
always had me -
> > > in
his pocket, in his billfold,
> > > a
paper doll family.
> > >
> > >
with me in his billfold,
> > > we
sat on countless barstools,
> > > in
his way together,
> > > he
forever drinking
> > > me
forever hopeful,
> > >
forever frozen,
> > >
forever five.
> >
> (c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on
her 45th birthday .
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:34:04 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Scrapper Blackwell
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jo grant wrote:
> The response
from Middle America-- from DEMONSTRATORS--
> forced
Clinton to pull back and lighten up.
>
> I can understand your cynicism; however, there
have been major
> demonstrations
in cities right across the country.
=== why are you
talking about demonstrations?! I'm all for
demonstrations!
We were talking about petitions. Politicians don't pay
attention to
petitions, but they *do* pay attention to demonstrations.
We need less of
the former and more of the latter. Don't write your name
on a piece of
paper, write your feelings on a sign and carry it.
> When someone
complains about a petition opposing senseless
> aggression
not having a place on the Beat List I can only say,
> "Read a
little less Jack Keroauc and a little more Angela Davis."
===
"Senseless aggression"? You make it sound like some dry political
event discussed
by Kissinger and Haldeman over cocktails. A senile,
drunken Yeltsin
actually used the phrase "World War III" to describe
Russia's response
if Clinton bombs Iraq, Clinton seems determined to do
it anyway, and
even if Yeltsin blinks, the environmental fallout from
another Iraq war
threatens to be catastrophic. This could be the most
serious event the
world has faced since the Cuban Missile Crisis. This
ain't the time
for petitions. Save that for when your local zoning board
wants to build a
new mall or something. Kofi Annan has achieved a peace
agreement with
Saddam, and Albright said last night that the U.S.
reserves the
right to bomb Iraq anyway! There's somethin' happenin'
here, and what it
is, for once, is exactly clear. Read plenty of BOTH
Jack Kerouac AND
Angela Davis, or read Abbie Hoffman, who combines the
two.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
watching TV, no
way to delay
that trouble
comin' every day
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:26:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Simpatico <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Death of a hipster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Very saddened to
hear of Rosenberg's passing, he was a perfect role
model for us all.
And it's a damn shame the New York Times gave him such
a pathetic
eulogy.
> he never amounted
to much of anything
=== I can't
believe they actually said something like this in an
obituary!
> Drugs, of
course, were more than an accouterment of
> hip. They
were its very essence.
=== bullshit.
> marijuana,
then an exotic drug used
> only by jazz
musicians
===
uh......right.
> In a
different life, Rosenberg might have used the loft to
> turn out
masterpieces
=== Oh, so he's
an art critic now. I wonder if he's even seen
Rosenberg's
paintings?
> had the
foresight to marry a schoolteacher so enamored of his
> charming,
creative ways that she cheerfully supported the
> family while
Rosenberg continued to paint
=== This is just
too condescending and smug. I dont think he married her
with
"foresight" of her money, not that schoolteachers get paid a whole
hell of a lot
anyway.
Mind you, I don't
mind beatniks being portrayed as lazy mooches - I am
one myself - but
this is the man's obituary, fer Chrissake!
I dunno, maybe
Rosenberg woulda just said "no, no, it's all true. let
'em print
it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - KY
goofed out on
Easter candy
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:21:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: T.S. Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I agaree
completely. This is what I was arguing
originally with Bentz.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:26:03 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pilsner <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Civil Rights, Bricklaying, and Mexican
Coins
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Perchuk
wrote:
> As cynical
as it may sound--I've done my part for civil rights, I have no
> interest in
Mexican coins, and no talent for bricklaying.
=== I do my part
for civil rights every day by being a weirdo in public
and thus
reminding people that it's not illegal (yet) to do so.
The Mexican
cincocentavo is the exact same size and has the same
edge-groove as an
American quarter, they cost only pennies apiece from a
wholesale coin
dealer, and they work in all vending machines and most
older pay phones.
Bricklaying
requires no real talent, though professional bricklayers
would no doubt be
quick to shout me down on that. It's a handy skill to
learn for the
coming weird times.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.Holland and his
cat, "Kitty"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:27:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bentz is right
that Eliot was certainly a force AG had to work against.
It's true also
that Pound, in a sense, served as a bridge between the
two poets. Ginsberg certainly studied Eliot at Columbia
and I'm sure
had some
appreciation for Eliot as a poet, particularly in his student
years when he was
reading so much of the 17th Century verse that
influenced
"Gates Of Wrath." In the
end, Allen chose Kit Smart and
Blake over Donne,
Williams and Whitman over Eliot.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:40:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Marlene Giraud>"
<M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: mc again draft 2, delte at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-23 08:35:57 EST, you write:
<< i plan
to read my father's eyes/my father's billfold and the insomnia
pome next week.
thank you. i wrote the pome with the photos
spread out in front of me,
they really did arrive in the mail.
as for the list, some youngster wrote that
'all your pomes are sad,
write a happy one!
believe me yr decision is a good one. i stay
on because of a few folks
from netherlands, scandinavia, who don't post
often but who are looking
into translating my pomes. now ain't that a
kick. no publishing here,
but ....
marie
and yes, it is as real as it gets. i cried my
way through the writing of
it.
be well my friend
marie >>
marie, lovely
pome. somehow i wish you would expand on the second to last
stanza...but who
am i?
a happy
poem? i wouldn't know how to define
something like that.
funny how things
affect us. i wonder what jack
would say...
~~marlene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:27:27 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: BACK TO LITERATURE -J. DIDION
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
mike rice wrote:
>
> At 05:00 PM
2/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Marie...thanks for the Corso and JK poetry....
> >
> >can we
please try and get back to nature of this list...namely
>
>Literature......
> >
> >The
posts over the last few days about women writers had me thinking
> >of Joan
Didion. I picked up _Slouching Towards
Bethlehem_ and _The
> >White
Album_ at a used bookstore ages ago and have yet to read them.
> >Didion's
name seems to pop up alot (not on this list..but other places).
> >..I
don't know much about her? Can anyone
fill me in? Any opinions of
> >her
work?
> >
> >What
about Anne Waldeman as a female beat writer??
> >
> >Dawn
> >
> >I read
Slouching Toward Bethlehem and didn't like it.
She wrote a book
> about
driving on the LA Freeway whose title I can't recall. She writes
> pretty fair
journalism, and she and her husband, John Gregory Dunne, brother
> of Dominic,
write horribly commercial screenplays like the Third Star is Born
> and Up Close
and Personal. Dunne wrote recently that
The English Patient was
> a descendant
of Out of Africa. I disagree, it is the
son of Lawrence of
> Arabia
> and David
Lean.
>
> Mike Rice
>
> Just
rememberd the book, Play It As It Lays.
It was boring and awful. J.
> G. Dunne
> wrote an
interesting scrrenplay of his novel, True Confessions, in which he
> gets
> Monsignor
Robert De Niro, getting dressed to perform a mass, says to a
> developer,
> "Oh
Yaeh, we met her, but you fucked her!"
>
> Mike Rice
Seems to me this
group has really its direction-- how do
I cancel?
--i.e.. get out
of this list??
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:30:25 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: The 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
James Stauffer
wrote:
>
> Carly
>
> I wasn't
arguing that the 50's were perfect, just that the notion that
> the awful
50's basically drove JK to commit suicide.
Societies are
> almost
always oppressive, that is what they are for (if you buy the
> argument
Freud makes in Civilization and Its Discontents, and creative
> types
generally rebel--at least that has been true for the last two or
> three
centuries--they would probably have been rebellious sooner
> except that
the only way to make an artistic living used to be through
> either the
king or the church. Kerouac, Cassidy,
Corso, etc, were
> white
men. The 50's see the birth of rock n
roll, the start of the
> civil rights
movement in many ways, a real flowering of writing about
>
homosexuality. Jobs were much
easier. It was much easier to move
> around the
country, find a job, stay for awhile and move on. It was
> fluid, in
some ways. Not good for women, I agree,
but that was true
> inside and
out of the Beat world. My only point is
that certainly the
> 50's were
for a huge majority a time of grey flannel conformity at the
> same time
there was an explosion of rebellious creativity and
> exploration.
>
> JS
>
>
> perhaps the 50's were sexy....for
white heterosexual men.
> Playboy (which
> was pretty much the driving force behind
the sexiness of the
> fifties--marilyn
> monroe was the cenerfold for the first
issue) came out with
> its first issue
> (in '56 i believe) and made sex the "natural and
healthy"
> ideal for the
> white heterosexual male. unfortunately, it also produced
> and reinforced
> unrealistic images for women to conform to in order to
> satisfy their male
> lovers.
it also reinforced the idea that heterosexulity was
> the only accepted
> norm.
>
> i know this is getting off on a bit of a
tangent, but while
> you cavort about
> praising the positive aspects of the
50's, understand that
> it wasn't so
> positive for a lot of people. and for those who
> rebelled--hopefully--it
> wasn't just a matter of sexiness and
being cool, rather the
> only alternative
> to an oppressive society.
>
Janet Pilgrim was
the first Playgirl-not MM
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MR-Received: by
mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:34:39 -0500
Alternate-recipient:
prohibited
Posting-date:
Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:34:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance:
normal
Priority: normal
UA-content-id:
E863ZXGMJE8F7
X400-MTS-identifier:
[;93433132208991/2192505@FIRNVX]
A1-type: MAIL
Hop-count: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:33:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "James F. Wood 253-7886"
<WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>
Subject: FYI
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
An interesting
article called "Cyberbeats " in the March issue of Wired,
page 166f.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:42:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Angela Davis?
Abby Hoffman? Why you leave out Father
Coughlin?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:59:01 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Marlene Giraud>"
<M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: FYI
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-23 13:36:29 EST, you write:
<< An
interesting article called "Cyberbeats " in the March issue of Wired,
page 166f.
>>
is there any way
you could post this?
~~marlene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
TAA25829
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:01:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: last draft delete at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
my father's billfold
delivered to my door today
photos from his wife
the ones he kept in all billfolds
he carried all his life.
my father can't remember
-if he ever had a billfold-
-if he ever had a family-
- a son, a wife, or me.
oh, the irony:
just as in living now in dying,
he was always absentee.
the photos - cracked, stained,
faded with sweat and age
black and white now sepia
but we all look the same:
me at five
my brother at eight
and our mother - his wife.
i look at me looking at me:
i can barely remember this child
of five with the huge brown eyes
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
frozen in time.
i adored my dad, and
had so little of him,
and yet it just occurs to me
that if i bemoaned the lack of him,
he always had me in his pocket, -
in his billfold,
a paper doll family.
with me in his billfold,
we sat in countless bars,
in his way together:
he forever drinking
me forever hopeful,
forever frozen,
forever five.
(c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on her
45th birthday .
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:14:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: AVE MARIA. (the prayer)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Thanks Rinaldo,
for reminding us of this lovely prayer (mantra) in the
proper language
here in our decline with the vernacular mass.
JS
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> Ave Maria gratia plena dominus tecum
> benedicta tua mulieribus et benedictus
> fructus ventris tui Jesus.
> Sancta Maria mater dei ora pro nobis
peccatoribus
> nunc et in ora mortis nostrae.
> Amen.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
TAA03570
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:27:58 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: whoops - sent wrong revision delete at
will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
my father's billfold
delivered to my door today
photos from his wife
the ones he kept in all billfolds
he carried all his life.
my father can't remember
-if he ever had a billfold-
-if he ever had a family-
- a son, a wife, or me.
oh, the irony:
just as in living now in dying,
he was always absentee.
the photos - cracked, stained,
faded with sweat and age
black and white now sepia
but we all look the same:
me at five
my brother at eight
and our mother - his wife.
i look at me looking at me:
i can barely remember this child of five
with the huge brown eyes
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
forever frozen in time.
i adored my dad, and
had so little of him,
and yet in actuality
if i bemoaned the lack of him,
he always had me in his pocket -
in his billfold:
a paper doll family.
with me in his billfold,
we sat in countless bars,
in his way together:
he forever drinking
me forever hopeful,
forever frozen,
forever five.
(c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on her
45th birthday .
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:30:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: just like a woman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I must have been
out of touch, but these strange pc analyses of Dylan amaze
me.
There is alot of
mysogyny in Dylan, in the Stones, the the Blues, for gods
sake. This is a mid sixties song, the term
"sexist" was relatively new, and
everybody still
was. Is this one any more sexist that
"It's all over now,
Baby
Blue?" A lot of Dylan's songs are
about relationshional hurt, the
nasty stuff that happens
between men and women, the bad side as well as the
good side of
love. Listen to the way Bessie Smith
talks about men, or any
other female
blues singer. That music is mostly about
what it is like to
lose in the war
of the sexes. Listen you groups of men,
even very evolved
ones, bitch about
men, listen to even fairly evolved guys, by themselves,
telling each
other what has been done to them, and "I was hungry, and it was
your world"
doesn't seem too far off the mark. Dylan
inherits alot from the
blues. The deconstructionist trick of trying to
turn these things into
attacks on sexism
itself would certainly come as a shock to those of us
memorizing these
things at the time.
> Robert
Shelton wrote: "Despite this work's enduring melodic appeal, its
> view of
women is controversial. The title is a male platitude that
> justifiably
angers women. I think Dylan is ironically toying with that
>
platitude."
Dylan is plenty
ironic, he's ironic about having been screwed over
>
>
> Marion Meade
wrote in the New York Times on March 14, 1971, that
>
"there's no more complete catalogue of sexist slurs" than this song
> where Dylan
"defines women's natural traits as greed, hypocrisy, whining
> and
hysteria."
>
And of course
there aren't any women who are greedy, hypocitical, hysterical
and whining?
> Bill King:
"Dylan's finest poem on the failure of human relationships
> because of
illusion created by social myth."
>
> Could be
Dylan may be out and out criticizing sexist men as much as the
> woman, or
women, who fail them. The line for me that turns the sharp
> edges all
fuzzy is: "I was hungry and it was your world."
>
> But the same
sex angle, I dunno. If I were you I'd be asking my "friend"
> for sources.
Full interrogation if necessary with bamboo shoots.
And there I agree.
JS
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:16:51 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Happy Trails
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Beat-L
I think it is
time for me to leave for awhile. I have
writing I need
to work harder
on, a life to live, and other things I should be doing
for awhile, may
be back--maybe sooner than I think once withdrawal
sets in. It's
just that this thing can be an addiction and a
tremendous sucker
of time. So much easier to respond to Beat-L
posts
than to stare at
that blank screen and try to fill it.
It has been a
great experience, and I have met great folks on this
list, most of
whom I am in back channel with anyway, but some of which
I have lost touch
with with drive failures and all. Lots
of them are
already gone, but
I just wanted to say farewell as far as the list is
concerned to some
of my favorites both past and current, and hope you
stay in
touch--those ones whose posts I never instantly delete, like I
am too much anymore. It's still a great place, but maybe it's just
nostalgia that
makes me think it has been much more exciting than it
is now. Thanks
first to Bill and Fred for the list.
I'll miss
Rinaldo,
Patricia, David, Marie C, John
Hasbrouck, Tim Boiuleau,
Charley plymell,
Diane DeRooy, Lisa Rabey, Kevin Killian,
Rodney
Phillips, John
Mitchell, Levi, Leon, Sherri, Rod Anastee, Bentz,
Richard Hough,
Tim Gallagher, sa griffin, and others I
whose names
will rush up as
soon as I send this. I enjoyed a good flame war as
much as anyone,
but hope that those I have pissed off will forgive me
my excesses and most of you are more than worthy
opponents and can
take it anyway!
This list has
given me alot, I have made friends who are some of the
closest people in
my life, but it is time to move on for awhile
God bless
(whichever form of her you prefer)
Happy Trails.
James Stauffer
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail-gw.pacbell.net id
UAA05372
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:29:38 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: mc again draft 2, delte at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie,
This is an
amazing poem. I will need to spend more
time with it, but
it is as real as
it gets. Blood and emotional guts. Which is what
you do, my
dear. Amazing
James
Marie Countryman
wrote:
> Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
> > this is
the piece that completes 'my father's eyes'
> > first
draft
> > my
father's billfold
> >
> >
delivered to my door today
> > photos
from his wife
> > the
ones he kept in all billfolds
> > he
carried all his life.
> >
> > my
father can't remember
> > -if he
ever had a billfold-
> > -if he
ever had a family-
> > - a
son, a wife, or me.
> > the
irony:
> > just as
in life, now in his dying,
> > he was
always absentee.
> >
> > the
photos - cracked, stained,
> > fading
with sweat and age
> > black
and white now sepia
> > but we
all look the same
> > me at
five
> > my
brother at eight
> > and our
mother - his wife.
> >
> > i look
at me looking at me:
> > i can
barely remember this child
> > of five
> > with
the huge brown eyes
> > full of
secrets,
> > full of
sadness,
> > frozen
in time.
> >
> > i
adored my dad, and
> > had so
little of him,
> > and yet
it just occurs to me
> > that if
i bemoaned the lack of him,
> > he
always had me -
> > in his
pocket, in his billfold,
> > a paper
doll family.
> >
> > with me
in his billfold,
> > we sat
on countless barstools,
> > in his
way together,
> > he
forever drinking
> > me
forever hopeful,
> > forever
frozen,
> > forever
five.
> > (c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on her 45th
birthday .
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MR-Received: by
mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:45:25 -0500
Alternate-recipient:
prohibited
Posting-date:
Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:45:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance:
normal
Priority: normal
UA-content-id:
E854ZXGMNYBFQ
X400-MTS-identifier:
[;52546132208991/2196370@FIRNVX]
A1-type: MAIL
Hop-count: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:44:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "James F. Wood 253-7886"
<WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>
Subject: .
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-23 13:36:29 EST, you write:
<< An
interesting article called "Cyberbeats " in the March issue of Wired,
page 166f.
>>
is there any way
you could post this?
~~marlene
Sorry I have no
way to post the article .
Jim
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:11:55 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Double Dharma 101
Comments: To:
BOHEMIAN LIST <bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dan Barth,
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/dan.html
of northern
California, America sent me a series
of email messages
on Feb. 10, 1998 containing quotes from
Jack Kerouac,
_Some of the Dharma_ (New York: Viking Penguin,
1997).
---------------------------------------------------------------
DOUBLE DHARMA 101
by Gregory Severance
Jack Kerouac Antonin Artaud
_Some of the
Dharma_ _The Theater and
its Double_
The Eternal and
tranquil Mind Never before, when it is life
Is bringing you
this Program itself that is in
question,
Direct from Rosy
Essence has there been so much
talk
(p. 7) of civilization
and culture.
(p. 7)
If you were not
here
To see the
world If confusion is
the sign of
With your
special the times, I see
at the root
Conditioned
eyes of this confusion
a rupture
What makes you
think between things and words,
It would look
like that? between things and
the ideas
(p. 7) and signs that are
their
representation.
(p. 7)
The tongue is in
a diseased condition It is useless to
give
Eye sees
fantastic blossoms in the air precise
reasons for this
Your
ego-personality is a pile of shit
contagious delirium.
Raised high by
your conception of it. (p. 26)
(p. 26)
A LIFE OF
SPONTANEOUS AND We are told
that the Myster-
RADIANT
EFFORTLESSNESS. That ies of
Eleusis confined them-
immanent
auspiciousness we all selves to the
_mise en scene_
feel in ourselves
is the Buddha- of a certain number of
moral
nature hidden
like a gem in truths.
soiled rags. (p. 52)
(p. 52)
(In this mighty
paragraph I can This is why an image,
an
hear the huge
slappings on the allegory, a figure
that masks
asses of the Gods.) what it would reveal have more
(p. 71) significance for
the spirit
than the
lucidities of speech
and its
analytics.
(p. 71)
Just like when I
was a kid and The spectacle will be
calcu-
knew that I
should wear my over- lated from one
end to the
alls all the time
and every day other, like a code (un
lan-
should be
Saturday, is Tao to me. gage).
(p. 98) (p. 98)
O for the simple
truth of a The theater still
remains the
railroad man in a
caboose, on most active and
efficient
a cold night, in
front of his _site of passage_ for
those
fire, an old
Conductor of the immense analogical
disturbances
Dharma
Train. in which
ideas are arrested in
(p. 109) flight at some
point in their
transmutation into the abstract.
(p. 109)
This world is
like the first 2. the second is
that I do not
pages of
Dostoevsky's "Eternal want to
be plagiarized, which
Husband." has happenned to me several
(p. 117) times.
(p. 117)
Jack Kerouac,
_Some of the Antonin Artaud,
_The Theater
Dharma_ (New
York: Viking and its Double_,
trans. Mary
Penguin,
1997). Caroline Richards (New York:
Quotes selected by Grove Press, 1958).
Dan Barth. Quotes selected
by
Gregory
Severance.
February 21-23, 1998
Montauk, New York / New York City
America
-----------------------------------------------------------------
* + * + * + * + *
+ * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco <<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"It's my
life and it's my wife."
-- Lou Reed
["Heroin"]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"But at the
far end of the universe
the million eyed
Spyder that hath no name
spinneth of
itself endlessly" -Allen Ginsberg
["Lysergic
Acid"]
* + * + * + * + *
+ * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:13:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: religion, again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 02:25 PM
2/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> J.
Perchuk wrote:
>>
Besides--if it's SO uncool to be Catholic (I can't believe that I, as
>> an
>> atheist,
have to play devil's advocate here---the irony is
>>
DELICIOUS)--then
>> explain
to me Keroauc's complex involvement with it. I mean--that's >
>> what all
these posts are about--right?
>
>Consider this
section from Desolation Angels where he considers what it
>means to wear
the cross.
>
>"I just
sit with a quart of beer and dont look at anyone--the only thing
>that attracts
my attention from out of my thoughts is that beautiful
>silver
crucifix Raphael's been wearing around his neck, and I mention
>it--
> 'Then it's yours!' and he takes it off and
hands it to me--'Really,
>truly, take
it!'...
>
>It has a
little silver chain, I pass it over my head and under my collar
>and wear the
cross--I feel strangely glad--Meantime Raphael has been
>reading the
Diamondcutter of the Wise Vow (Diamond Sutra) that I
>paraphrased
on Desolation, has it on his lap. 'Do you understand it
>Raphael?'
There you'll find everything there is to know'...
>
>Finally I
read sections of it to the party to take their minds off the
>girl
jealousies--
> 'Subhuti,
living ones who know, in teaching meaning to others, should
>first be free
themselves from all the frustrating desires aroused by
>beautiful
sights, pleasant sounds, sweet tastes, fragrance, soft
>tangibles,
and tempting thoughts. In their practice
of generosity, they
>should not be
blindly influenced by any of these intriguing shows. And
>why? Because,
if in their practice of generosity they are not blindly
>influenced by
such things they will pass through a bliss and merit what
>is beyond
calculation and beyond imagining...'
>
>I wake up in
the morning with my cross around my neck, I realize what
>thicks and
thins I'll have to wear this through, and ask myself 'What
>would
Catholics and Christians say about me wearing the cross to ball and
>to drink like
this?--but what would Jesus say if I went up to him and
>said 'May I
wear Your cross in this world as it is?'
> No matter what happens, may I wear your
cross?--are there many kinds of
>purgatories
not?
> '...not blindly influenced...'"
>DC
>
>
My response to
this, Diane, is simply....beautiful, just, beautiful. I don't
know who could
have given a better response than the man himself. Simply
fabulous. Thank
you--!
J. Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:35:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Civil Rights, Bricklaying, and
Mexican Coins
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 03:26 PM
2/23/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Jeffrey
Perchuk wrote:
>
>> As
cynical as it may sound--I've done my part for civil rights, I have no
>> interest
in Mexican coins, and no talent for bricklaying.
>
>
>=== I do my
part for civil rights every day by being a weirdo in public
>and thus
reminding people that it's not illegal (yet) to do so.
>
>The Mexican
cincocentavo is the exact same size and has the same
>edge-groove
as an American quarter, they cost only pennies apiece from a
>wholesale
coin dealer, and they work in all vending machines and most
>older pay
phones.
>
>Bricklaying
requires no real talent, though professional bricklayers
>would no
doubt be quick to shout me down on that. It's a handy skill to
>learn for the
coming weird times.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>J.Holland and
his cat, "Kitty"
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
I appreciate the
info, J. Holland--but as for needing a skill for "the
coming weird
times" (whatever THAT means--I'm not quite sure) I already have
a negotiable
skill--I teach high school English for a living. Maybe you
should direct
your advice to those people (here, or anywhere, for that
matter) who have
NO skills whatsoever. I don't know how you imagine "The
coming weird
times"--maybe as some cinematic, post-apocalyptic armaggedon
type scenario
replete with all the grotesque nuclear holocaust imagery we
have come to
know--but I know this, at least--it will require people with
SKILLS--not just
EMPTY MOUTHS TO FEED. I know this may be off the track (or
maybe it's not,
I'm not sure). As for being a weirdo in public--hey, that's
your First
Amendment right, I guess, as long as it involves personal
expression. And
as a staunch opponent of censorship of ANY kind, I say, the
weirder, the
better. Go for it, man!
I just wanted to
make sure my point got through. By the way--thanks for the
information on
numismatics. If I ever decide to go back to Mexico, it may
come in handy.
Adios!
J.
Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:40:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matt Sanford <Mato15@AOL.COM>
Subject: brion gysin
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone know
some good weblinks about Gysin that I may check out, possibly
some of his
writings would be helpful, or maybe just suggestions. Also, check
out the latest
Ray Gun magazine, it has a good article about Burroughs, Gysin,
and others...
m
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
landen.math.uwaterloo.ca: nhenness owned process
doing -bs
X-Sender:
nhenness@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:09:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Neil M. Hennessy"
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: vacation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
will be back when
i have time for the list.
bye for now,
neil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:10:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
no, no, i'm
pretty sure marilyn was the first. the
shot is a pretty famous
one, titled
"golden dreams". its a bird's
eye shot. marilyn completely nude,
on her side, on a red statin looking background, with her
back so her ass and
breasts stuck
out. its the kind of (soft) porn that
poses as art so as to not
look as
cheap. well, actually, i'd rather not
comment on what is and isn't
art, because
that's a whole other can of worms, but that's some of the
critisism on that
particular shot.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
ileif@popd.ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:23:46 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Irving Leif
<ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Mark,
Sorry for this
interruption to your life, but I have to ask you something
seeing that you
are from Monroeville.
Do you know the
Bracken family from Monroeville?
I was once
engaged to Pamela Bracken who grew up there.
Thanks!!
Irving Leif
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:55:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Euhyun Jennifer Chun
<ejc@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: on a side note - DC area 'Beat Club'
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Check this one
out kids. jEnn
ps. for more
information, e.mail beat@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
*snip snip*
Primarily we are
an organization with the objective to spread and share
ideas,
literature, music, art, and information about cultural events going
on in the
DC-MD-VA area that might be of interest to the students of GWU.
We are not an
"organization" per se, in that we do not have mandatory
meetings, dues,
restrictions, and other items of that sort which would be
included in the
format of most other student organizations.
Rather, we
would prefer to
act as an instrument to expose students the new cultures
and ideas,
different types of literature, art, music (and so forth),
and/or things
that they are well-versed in, but would like to pursue in
greater
depth. In addition, we wish to and
encourage students to share
what they love
with other students, in an attempt to exchange and share
information that
may not have been previously available.
This may seem
broad, so please allow me to be more specific.
Essentially,
we have two types
of meetings. Our "internal"
meetings take place
bimonthly. At these types of meetings we talk about what
we have done
since the last
meeting, suggest ideas of what to do on/off campus, plan
for future
events, and other things of this sort.
This is usually
somewhat brief,
so afterwards we alott for time for members to read aloud
(poetry, short
story, etc.), play music, and so forth.
Our "external"
meetings are
those that take place at events in the area.
For these we
meet somewhere on
campus at a specified time, and attend them as a group.
These events will
be announced in our newsletter, along with other
suggestions that
will not be coordinated events. (see below)
I hope that this
overview is informative. Please remember
that we are
more informal
than most other clubs, so that the club means as much to you
as you would like
to get out if, with no pressure. Of course,
this means
that we are only
as successful as the members make it, and for the moment
this seems to be
a distinct advantage. Hope to talk to you soon.
--Jason
_______________________________________
THE BEAT CLUB-
ELECTRONIC NEWSLETTER
Well you crazy
cats, I have come up with a few things that I thought you
all might be
interested in.
First off, I
would like to announce our first external Beat Club meeting
ever. The destination will be The Kennedy Center at
on 02/25 at 6:00p, to
see Hesperus
(playing traditional string and wind instruments in a program
fusion of European medieval with American Appalachian
music). It should
be fun. I would like to meet in front of Funger Hall
at 5:30p. Try to
come, it should
be a very interesting experience.
Here are a few
other events you might be interested in:
1. Red Dragon
Press Reading (poetry reading)- 1508 U St., 02/20, 7P.
Phone:
202.667.8148.
2. The Analects
of Confucius (Lecture)- 02/26, 6:30p.
202.707.3302
Library of Congress
James Madison Building
Montepelier Room
1st & Independence Ave., SE
3 Relations
between late antique, early jewish, and early Christian Art
(lecture/art)-National
Gallery of Art, East Building Aud., 02/22, 2p.
4. NSO, w/Leonard
Slatkin (!) (music)-02/26 7:30p, Kennedy Center
Includes'
Gershwin's "Rhapsody in
Blue"-->Go
to this, great conductor and music.
5. Sno-core tour
(music)-includes Primus and Blink 182--I can't go but I
simply must plug
Primus. Capital Ballroom, 03/11, 5p
6. Hum
(music)-Worship. Worship. Worship.
9:30 club, 03/05.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.22]
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:41:22 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane's comments, Tom Lehrer,
and Liturgy (was: Kerouac's
Catholicism)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>>Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
=== Just because Jesus said "Take,
eat, this is my body" does not
mean
>>> >
he intended ritual ceremonies with people lining up to eat
>>> >
transubstantiated wafers.
>>
>>
>>and Diane
Carter replied:
>>
>>> What
basis do you have for knowing what "he intended?"
>>
>>
>>and JSH
responds:
>>
>>=== A
sentence that states "Just because X does not mean X" doesn't
mean
>>I am
claiming to know what Jesus intended. I am merely pointing out a
>>lack of
chain of evidence for the Catholic's claim that they DO know
>>what he
intended. I have no idea what he intended - and neither does
>>anyone
else.
>
>Then your
original comment ought to have been "does not NECESARILY mean
>he intended
ritual ceremonies..." rather than the specific "does not
>mean..."
you did use.
>
>But more
importantly you are shirking the meat of the response.
>
>Diane points
out how Jesus said "do this in memory of me". Pretty
clear in
>this case
this ceremony did seem to be something Jesus intended to have
>people
continue.
>
>Now, I said I
agreed with you n terms of a lot of this vis a vis
>catholicism
(talk about a messed up setence on my part).
>
>But this
particular claim isn't one of them for the above reason. But
I do
>agree that
the Catholic idea of transubstiation doesn't hold up at a
>scriptural
level the same way that eating bread and drinking wine when
>gathering
together does.
>
Just to throw a
little something into the mix, though not totally about
Eating the
Host...
In Dostoevksy's
"The Idiot", the main character, Prince Myshkin,
delivered quite a
diatribe against Roman Catholicism in the perspective
of a Russian
Orthodox. Of course this is a fictional
novel, but his
beliefs were held
by many, particularly, I believe, the slavophils. He,
elaborating to
much lengths, of course, reprimanded the Catholic Church
for preaching a
church outside of temporal existence when in fact they
were highly
involved in the affairs of their subjects.
He also accused
them of the
standard ills, viz. deceit, treachery, scandals, murder,
that whole
bit. The character in the book also
mentioned that the
Catholic Church,
at least since 16th century, has just been a
continuation of
the Holy Roman Empire, not the kindest
politico-geographic
assimilation. Pius IX, he alluded to,
made a
doctrine of Papal
Infallibility, in his eyes, a preposterous claim. He,
of course getting
worked up, claimed Catholicism as the basis for
Atheism (because
subjects became so distraught and disillusioned with
their leaders)
and Socialism (needed to place morality somewhere).
I just thought I
might add this.
Although: I
certainly agree with whomever has said that the Catholics
are certainly not
the worst offenders we've had... there have been some
unpleasant,
mean-ish ones (although, on the other hand... you might not
want to invite
too many 18th century Jesuits to a dinner party).
Christopher.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.22]
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:00:03 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Cyberbeats" in Wired
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
><< An
interesting article called "Cyberbeats " in the March issue of
Wired,
> page 166f.
> >>
>is there any
way you could post this?
>~~marlene
>Sorry I have
no way to post the article .
>Jim
>
This article
should hypothetically be on the Wired.com website next
month... they
post their articles from their magazines up there the
month following
publication. At that time, it can be
copied over onto
BEAT-L, I
believe.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:19:56 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Cyberbeats" in Wired
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I looked at this
issue. It has a little girl on the cover
who's supposed
to be a clone.
Page 166 has
nothing about Cyberbeats.
There is no page
166f
Can you clarify
or provide more information.
>><<
An interesting article called "Cyberbeats " in the March issue of
>Wired,
>> page
166f.
>> >>
>>is there
any way you could post this?
>>~~marlene
>>Sorry I have
no way to post the article .
>>Jim
>>
>This article
should hypothetically be on the Wired.com website next
>month... they
post their articles from their magazines up there the
>month
following publication. At that time, it
can be copied over onto
>BEAT-L, I
believe.
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
KAA23947
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:33:58 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: mc: yet again, delete at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
this is it:
my father's billfold
delivered to my door today
were the photos from his wife:
the ones he kept in all billfolds
he
carried all his life.
my father can't remember
-if he ever had a billfold-
-if he ever had a family-
- a son, a wife, or me.
oh, the irony:
just as living now in dying,
he was always absentee.
the photos - cracked and stained,
faded with sweat and aged
by the all the years of his life,
black and white now sepia:
me at five
my brother at eight
and mom, his dead wife.
as i look at me looking up at me
i can barely remember this child
but the huge brown eyes are mine:
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
forever frozen in time.
i so adored my dad,
and had so little of him-
yet
suddenly i see
that always he had me-
a paper doll,
inhabiting his billfold
with his paper family.
with me in his billfold,
we sat in countless bars,
in his way together:
he forever drinking
me forever hopeful,
me forever frozen,
me forever five.
(c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on her
45th birthday .
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
KAA27090
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:43:57 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: mc: arrhhh i've got blisters on my
fingers delet at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
microscopic
changes:
but i finally am
pleased:
i finally am
pleased:
my father's billfold
delivered to my door today
were the photos from his wife:
the ones he kept in all billfolds
he carried all his life.
my father can't remember
-if he ever had a billfold-
-if he ever had a family-
- a son, a wife, or me.
oh, the irony:
just as living now in dying,
he was always absentee.
the photos - cracked and stained,
faded with sweat and aged
by the all the years of his life,
black and white now sepia:
me at five
my brother at eight
and mom, his dead wife.
as i look at me looking up at me
i can barely remember this child
but
the huge brown eyes are mine:
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
forever frozen in time.
i so adored my dad,
and had so little of him-
yet
suddenly i see
that always he had me-
just like a paper doll,
inhabiting his billfold
with his paper family.
with me in his billfold,
we sat in countless bars,
in his way together:
he forever drinking
me forever hopeful,
me forever frozen,
me forever five.
(c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on her
45th birthday .
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:54:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John J Dorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Cyberbeats" in Wired
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it's on page
116 March '98 issue of Wired
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:58:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nico 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CIA Report on Bay of Pigs
Comments: To:
Peacefalen@aol.com, RPMatthews@aol.com, OlenkaV@aol.com,
JoSmiley@aol.com, SlugBug747@aol.com,
PixiSparkl@aol.com,
Mudhonie2@aol.com,
john_kallas@time-inc.com, Oldihome@aol.com,
OSCJUN@aol.com, theland@gorge.net,
ADDaisy@aol.com, trireme@epix.net,
TinBytch@aol.com, Aeschylus3@aol.com,
Rowrbazzle@aol.com,
JMD1997@aol.com, CNLM97@aol.com,
Rutabaga4@aol.com,
Jwalgrant@aol.com,
bhmlswe@hotmail.com, GianniD@aol.com,
KBPRODS@aol.com, SarahC420@aol.com,
jyee@chewonki.org,
PIANOWITZ@aol.com,
Arlingtn57@aol.com, Feets12345@aol.com,
Lorenzo81@aol.com, MarissaP@aol.com,
SHruska309@aol.com,
Elixir356@aol.com, IIvey@aol.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
for those of you
who live in NYC, i'm figuring many of you saw this on the
cover of the
Times yesterday. if not, or if you're elsewhere, here you go...
________________________________________________________
from The New York
Times; February 22, 1998
C.I.A. Bares Own
Bungling in Bay of Pigs Report
By TIM WEINER
ASHINGTON -- One
of the most secret documents of the
Cold War is out:
the CIA's brutally honest inquest into the 1961
Bay of Pigs
fiasco, which laid the blame for the disastrous invasion of
Cuba squarely on
the agency's own institutional arrogance, ignorance and
incompetence.
The 150-page
document also cautioned those who would use the CIA to
overthrow
enemies, saying that job belongs to the Pentagon and its broad
arsenal of
military forces around the globe.
The report
painted a picture of an agency shot through with deadly
self-deception,
one whose secret operations were "ludicrous or tragic or
both." In
mounting the Cuban operation, almost none of the CIA officers
were able to
speak Spanish, yet those same officers heaped contempt on
their Cuban
"puppets" hand-picked to replace Fidel Castro, the report
said.
The Bay of Pigs
invasion, carried out in April 1961, was organized by the
CIA and was
intended to lead to the overthrow of Castro, whose
Communist government
just 90 miles from the Florida coast was seen as a
beachhead for
Soviet influence in the Western Hemisphere.
While the basic
facts of the commando raid on Cuba are known, the
report, titled
"The Inspector General's Survey of the Cuban Operation," is
an untapped well
of cold, hard facts. A leading historian of the operation,
Peter Wyden,
wrote wistfully in his book "Bay of Pigs: The Untold Story"
(Simon &
Schuster, 1979) that the report was "probably buried forever."
Last week, after
36 years of secrecy during which all but one copy of the
report was
destroyed, a Freedom of Information Act request by the
National Security
Archive, a nonproft group, unearthed the sole surviving
volume, which was
locked in the safe of the director of CIA. The report,
written by the
CIA's inspector general, Lyman Kirkpatrick, after a
six-month
investigation, is a record of bungling by the best and the
brightest and
makes for chilling reading.
The CIA's leaders
believed that it was President John F. Kennedy's
failure to
approve an attack on Cuba's air force to coincide with the
landing of
commandos that caused the deaths of nearly 114 raiders.
Another 1,189
were captured; the rest of the 1,500 either never landed or
made their way
back to safety.
And in their
rebuttals to the report by Kirkpatrick, they wrote that his
depiction of
"unmitigated and almost willful bumbling and disaster" -- in the
words of Gen.
Charles Cabell, then deputy director of the CIA -- was
motivated by
personal malice. Kirkpatrick had wanted to be the agency's
spymaster, but
his career advancement stalled when he contracted polio in
the early 1950s.
The report said
the operation, whose planning began in April 1960,
started as a
classic covert action "in which the hand of the United States
would not
appear." The plan called for a group of exiled Cuban leaders,
supported by a
CIA cadre, to build political momentum slowly toward
toppling Castro,
who had taken power 16 months earlier.
Very quickly,
"this operation took on a life of its own," the report said.
"The agency
was going forward without knowing precisely what it was
doing."
The CIA's
officers "became so wrapped up in the operation as such that
they lost sight
of ultimate goals." Their budget multiplied from $4.4 million
to $46 million.
Within a year, they created an unruly, ill-trained, crudely
supported
invasion force whose cover was blown, and whose existence
had been broadly
hinted at in newspaper reports before the operation
took place.
"Plausible denial" -- the ability of the United States to lie
convincingly
about its role in the invasion -- became "a pathetic illusion,"
the report said.
With
crisscrossing lines of communication and control among bases and
camps in Miami,
Key West, New Orleans, Nicaragua and Guatemala, all
under sporadic
command from headquarters, the CIA created a "complex
and bizarre
organizational situation" that was doomed to fail.
The officers
chosen to staff the huge operation were in many instances
incapable;
"very few spoke Spanish or had Latin-American background
knowledge,"
the report said.
Even today, CIA
officials say that this lack of foreign languages and
experience
remains one of the biggest problems at the agency.
Agency employees
treated the Cubans training to overthrow Castro "like
dirt." The
abuse left the hungry, barefoot, disillusioned trainees "wondering
what kind of
Cuban future they were fighting for."
The Revolutionary
Council, the CIA-created alternative to Castro,
became the
agency's "puppets," as described in the report. "Isolated in a
Miami safe house,
'voluntarily' but under strong persuasion, the
Revolutionary
Council members awaited the outcome of a military
operation which
they had not planned and knew little about while
agency-written
bulletins were issued to the world in their name."
If the CIA could
not work with Cubans, Kirkpatrick warned
prophetically,
"how can the agency possibly succeed with the natives of
Black Africa or
Southeast Asia?"
President Kennedy
had been in office just three months when the invasion
took place. The
report argued that he might not have fully grasped the
details of the
raid, because the CIA did not fully explain them. "Detailed
policy
authorization for some specific actions was either never fully
clarified or only
resolved at the 11th hour," it said. "Even the central
decision as to
whether to employ the strike force was still somewhat in
doubt up to the
very moment of embarkation."
The CIA convinced
itself and the White House that the invasion would
magically create
in Cuba "an organized resistance that did not exist,"
composed of
30,000 Cubans who would "make their way through the
Castro army and
wade the swamps to rally to the liberators." This was
self-deception,
the report said, adding drily, "We are unaware of any
planning by the
agency or by the U.S. government for this success."
On April 15,
1961, CIA pilots knocked out part of Castro's air force,
and were set to
finish the job. At the last minute, on April 16, Kennedy
called off the
air strikes, but the message did not reach the 1,511
commandos headed
for the Bay of Pigs. Three days of fighting destroyed
the invading
force. A brigade commander sent his final messages: "We are
out of ammo and
fighting on the beach. Please send help," and: "In water.
Out of ammo.
Enemy closing in. Help must arrive in next hour."
It never came.
Over the next few days two American teams and a crew of
Cuban frogmen
plucked 26 survivors off the beaches and reefs.
After the inquiry
completed its work, the agency clearly viewed the report
as poison:
"In unfriendly hands, it can become a weapon unjustifiably to
attack the entire
mission, organization, and functions of the agency,"
warned Cabell,
the deputy director at the time. Nevertheless, the CIA
agreed to release
the report as part of a slow process of making public
parts of its
past.
Read with
hindsight, the accumulated weight of the details in Kirkpatrick's
report makes a
case that "the fundamental cause of the disaster" was the
CIA's incompetence,
not Kennedy's failure to follow through with the air
raids in support
of the commandos.
The agency failed
the president by failing to tell him "that success had
become dubious
and to recommend that the operation be therefore
canceled,"
it said.
The consequence
of canceling was chagrin: "The world already knew all
about the
preparations, and the government's and the agency's
embarrassment
would have been public," the report said. The cost of
continuing was
"failure, which brought even more embarrassment, carried
death and misery
to hundreds" and wounded American prestige. "The
choice was
between retreat without honor and a gamble between
ignominious
defeat and dubious victory," the report said.
"The agency
chose to gamble, at rapidly decreasing odds," in an operation
sabotaged by bad
intelligence, incompetent staffing, illusionary planning,
and
self-deception. In the future, it concluded, when the White House
wanted to engage
in major covert operations "which may profoundly
affect world events,"
it should call the Defense Department, not the CIA.
The report was
released under the Freedom of Information Act to the
National Security
Archive, which collects and publishes declassified
government
documents.
Peter Kornbluh,
director of the archive's Cuba Documentation Project,
called the report
"one of the most important examples of self-criticism
ever written
inside the agency." He said it would be posted on Sunday at
the archive's Web
site: http://www.seas.gwu.edu/nsarchive.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:08:20 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Lager <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Christopher's comments on Timothy's
comments on my comments on
Diane's comments, and a partridge
in a pear tree
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Christopher,
loved your comments re Dostoevsky and Papal infallibilty,
but in the course
of quoting the previous post, you removed the line
that attributes
the bottom segment to Timothy K. Gallaher.
This may seem
picky, but no matter how hard I try to make it crystal
clear what the
quotations are and what my own words are (by spelling out
"Diane
said.." and "then JSH responds..." and putting a "==="
in front
of my responses,
I STILL get frequent hate mail from people who
seemingly cannot
read the ">" brackets and tell who said what in a post,
and angrily
attribute someone else's comments to me!
(One of my
favorites, from a listmember who will go unnamed, continually
referred to me as
"Julian", confusing me with Julian Ruck, and she even
quoted my post in
its entirety, which I had clearly signed "Jeffrey
Scott
Holland"...)
In short, William
S.Burroughs is the greatest author of the twentieth
century. Thank
you all, goodnight, and drive safely.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott Holland
hypnotist of
ladies
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:51:55 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: the 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
no, no, i'm
pretty sure marilyn was the first. the
shot is a pretty
famous
> one, titled
"golden dreams". its a bird's
eye shot. marilyn completely nude,
> on her
side, on a red statin looking
background, with her back so her ass and
> breasts
stuck out. its the kind of (soft) porn
that poses as art so as to not
> look as
cheap. well, actually, i'd rather not
comment on what is and isn't
> art, because
that's a whole other can of worms, but that's some of the
> critisism on
that particular shot.
Dont want to
argue here..but Playboys Premier issue (not the Pilot
issue) had Janet
Pilgrim as the first Playgirl---MM was shown in an
early issue but
she was not called a "Playgirl".Pilgrim wnet on to work
at PLayboy
Magaine for many years.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:53:06 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: the 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
no, no, i'm
pretty sure marilyn was the first. the
shot is a pretty
famous
> one, titled
"golden dreams". its a bird's
eye shot. marilyn completely nude,
> on her
side, on a red statin looking
background, with her back so her ass and
> breasts
stuck out. its the kind of (soft) porn
that poses as art so as to not
> look as
cheap. well, actually, i'd rather not
comment on what is and isn't
> art, because
that's a whole other can of worms, but that's some of the
> critisism on
that particular shot.
Ofcourse I dont
have any idea what this fact has to with Beats anyhow???
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:50:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "<Carly Earnshaw>"
<Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the 50's stereotype
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
sorry, at one
point all of this did relate. since it
got off topic i've been
backchanneling my
messages, though i can't speak for anyone else.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:11:47 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Oatmeal Stout
<jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have always
heard about these WSB books, but my eyes have never beheld
copies of
them.....does anyone know more about these? Are they novels,
cut-ups,
nonfiction, essays, what?
"Roosevelt
After Inauguration" - I know this was a short piece published
in Floating Bear
in 1961, but there was a book by the same name
published by Fuck
You Press in 1964....is this just a reprint of the
piece in a small
book, or is more material added?
"Dead
Fingers Talk" - I hear a lot about this novel but I understand
it's never been
published in America.....why? Anyone have this?
"Four
Horsemen of the Apocalypse" - Published only in Germany, and in
the German
language? Was there ever an English translation?
"Cobblestone
Gardens" - published by Cherry Valley Press in 1976. What
IS this??
"Electronic
Revolution" - Left Bank Books, 1971 - ????
"The Retreat
Diaries" - ????
"Le Festin
Nu" - ????
"Early
Routines" - ????
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to
Bukowski's "Hostage" CD
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:33:08 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Neal
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
neal covers his
own life real well up to age ten in the
first third.
the letters to
jack kerouac in the first third cover his teen years, and
there's a piece
of a tape that kerouac transcribed in visions of cody
that covers his
teen years, too.
nicosia wrote a
nice entry in the dictionary of literary biography.
as ever prints
neal and allen g's letters from 1947 onward, and
kerouac's letters
include some to neal's denver friends, to help round
things out
Steve Edington
wrote:
>
> Several days
back someone asked about biographical information on Neal
> Cassady.
There is one biography that I know of called The Holy Goof by William
> Plummer
(Paragon House, 1981). There's not much in it that hasn't also been
> written
elsewhere in bios of other beats (Kerouac, Ginsberg, et. al.) but you
> do get it
all in one place in this one. A good part of the book is about NC
> and Ken
Kesey. The overall text jumped around too much for my taste, but its
> still worth
reading for anyone looking for an overview of NC's life.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:36:05 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
if you check out
the literary outlaw bio you'll find descriptions of
some of this
stuff.
cobblestone
gardens is a favorite of mine: burroughs' childhood. non
fiction
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:43:59 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: mc: yet again, delete at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well hello and
goodbye bob. i write in spirit of beat dom. always warn
others if it does
not apply to their interests. poetry has its place, as i
receive responses
more favorable then this.
hope you find yr
way thru the maze and don't encounter the minator as yo
wend yr way out.
obviously, you
need to bail.
but as you
subscribed, you got directions how to unsub:
use them
mc
Bob Lewis wrote:
> delete at
will- good idea! i think i'll do that, along with the iraqi
> petition,
and all other things i'm not very interested in.
> what i'm
interested in is reading beat literature. not deciding who's
> beat and
who's not. also not interested in ts
eliot, bob dylan and 90%
> of the other
crap thats discussed.
> (i use the
word crap, because that's what I think it is. doesn't
> necessarily
make it so.)
> (i have to
put that in, because i know someone is going to respond and
> say i don't
appreciate these things. i'll save ya the trouble and say it
> myself- i
dont appreciate these things.)
> what i
really want to do is log off of this list formerly known as the
> beat list. so
please oh please would someone post instructions on the
> matter.
> thank you
very much-
> one fed up
customer.
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
> You don't
need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get
completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno
at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:56:41 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Scott
Holland wrote on 2/24/98:
>I have always
heard about these WSB books, but my eyes have never beheld
>copies of
them.....does anyone know more about these? Are they novels,
>cut-ups,
nonfiction, essays, what?
[. . . . snip . .
. .]
>"Cobblestone
Gardens" - published by Cherry Valley Press in 1976.
>What IS
this??
[. . . . snip . .
. .]
>"The
Retreat Diaries" - ????
>
[ . . . . snip .
. . .]
Gregory Severance
replies:
Some of this info
has already been posted
while I was
eating dinner and composing this.
I have in front
of me here a book:
William S.
Burroughs, _The Burroughs File_
(San Francisco:
City Lights Books, 1984).
Texts bearing the
titles, _Cobblestone Gardens_ and
_The Retreat
Diaries_ appear in this collection
of WSB material.
Here are the citations given
on the publishing
history page (p. 12):
_The Retreat Diaries_, The City Moon, City
Moon
Broadcast 3, 1976 (New York)
_Cobble Stone Gardens_, Cherry Valley Editions
(edited by Charles and Pam Plymell),
1976
(New York)
_Cobble Stone
Gardens_ takes up 16 pages in this book and
seems to be more
on the side of non-fiction/autobiography.
_The Retreat
Diaries_ takes up 19 pages. It is an essay
that resulted
from notes taken by WSB while on a two week
retreat in
upstate New York in the summer of 1975.
% % % % % % % % %
% % %
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
"Where even
Richard Nixon has got soul.
Even Richard Nixon has got it --
soul."
--Neil Young
["Campaigner"]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:49:11 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kirin <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Tom Christopher
wrote:
>
> if you check
out the literary outlaw bio you'll find descriptions of
> some of this
stuff.
=== why, so there
is.....funny, I've read "Literary Outlaw" a hundred
times and didn't
remember the references to "Cobblestone Gardens" and
others.....I've
also skimmed "The Burroughs File" before in the
bookstore and
never noticed that "Gardens" was reprinted in its entirety
therein....in the
immortal words of Chi Chi Rodriguez, "What A Stupid I
Am".
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeff Holland's
Traveling Sideshow
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:30:14 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Heineken <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: WSB's oeuvre
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
All WSB
bibliographies I've seen on the web are incomplete. I'm trying
to compile a list
of all books by WSB (not counting interview books like
"The
Job", RE/Search, or Bockris)...I would also like to fill in the
gaps in my
collection if anyone has copies for sale or trade. For the
record, I have:
Naked Lunch
Interzone
Exterminator!
The Place of Dead
Roads
Soft Machine
Junky
The Yage Letters
Wild Boys
The Ticket That
Exploded
My Education
Tornado Alley
Port Of Saints
Queer
Cities of the Red
Night
The Cat Inside
Nova Express
Ghost of Chance
Painting And Guns
The Adding
Machine
The Western Lands
Blade Runner
The Last Words of
Dutch Schultz
Letters of WSB,
1945-1959
I do not have the
following, and would like to obtain them. Thanks to
those who pointed
out the reprints of some of these texts in "The
Burroughs
File". I still would like to own original editions in any
condition...
Ah Pook Is Here
Electronic
Revolution
Book of
Breeething
Ali's Smile,
Naked Scientology
Helnwein Faces
Dead Fingers Talk
Le Festin Nu
Early Routines
Cobblestone
Gardens
The Retreat
Diaries
Four Horsemen of
the Apocalypse
Roosevelt After
Inauguration
The Burroughs
File
Letters To Allen
Ginsberg
Minutes To Go
Seven Deadly Sins
The Third Mind
And lastly, these
entries turned up on Amazon.com's database....are
these by our WSB,
or by another William S.Burroughs??....
Strange, Amazing
& Mysterious Places
Lasers
New York Inside
Out
Snack
Are there any
other books written by (not about) WSB that do not appear
on this list?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - KY
Get the new
Creeps Outpost Cupcake Card!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:51:54 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Heineken <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: WSB's oeuvre
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Whoops, some
addendums to my own list, more books I don't have:
Ruski (who
published this, Patricia?)
APO-33 Bulletin
Let The Mice In
=-=-=
JSH
ky
awooo
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:32:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Steve Edington <Sedington@AOL.COM>
Subject: Neal
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Several days back
someone asked about biographical information on Neal
Cassady. There is
one biography that I know of called The Holy Goof by William
Plummer (Paragon
House, 1981). There's not much in it that hasn't also been
written elsewhere
in bios of other beats (Kerouac, Ginsberg, et. al.) but you
do get it all in
one place in this one. A good part of the book is about NC
and Ken Kesey.
The overall text jumped around too much for my taste, but its
still worth
reading for anyone looking for an overview of NC's life.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:33:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Hudepohl <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bob Lewis wrote:
> also not
interested in ts eliot, bob dylan and 90%
> of the other
crap thats discussed.
=== the big
existential dilemma here is that this list seems to be torn
between two
warring factions, one who sees this as a list FOR Beats, and
those who see it
as a list ABOUT Beats, specifically the first original
batch of big
kahunas.
But the poets,
beatniks, proto-Beats, and assorted Hipster Be-bop
Junkies don't
just wanna talk ABOUT Beat like it was, in the words of
Joe Pesci,
"some remote fuckin' expanse in ancient history", we wanna
talk and think
and live and ooze in the moment that IS, dig; a Beat mind
is always
thinkin', gears a-turnin', daddy-o, and in the course of just
one wine-soaked
evening a person in a quasi-Kerouacian state o'mind
might talk about
all kinds o' shtuff, like war, fallout shelters, Ezra
Pound, Green
Acres, bottled water, Tiger shit, the new mint flavored
Yoo-Hoo, Smurfs,
Unrequited love, The State of the Union, fried stuff,
pain, garlic,
parking tickets, Why Johnny can't read, Catholicism,
Ism-ism, Leonardo
Da Vinci, Fiberglas, Cake, skinny-dipping, virtual
pets, Andre Gide,
imitation crab meat, Adam Ant, watercress, Dixieland
Jazz, literacy,
Ed Wood, nihilism, tits, carpentry, dirt, hormones,
regret, bad
surrealist haikus, semi-automatic weapons, mittens, the
importance of
being Ernest Tubb, school glue, bondage, The Ultimate
Spinach,
erlenmeyer flasks, Carol Channing, baked potatoes, LeRoi Jones,
geodes, table
saws, Poker, Hubert Humphrey, "Cheiro's Book of Numbers",
lint,
carbohydrates, why you can't keep your eyes open when sneezing,
turpentine, Sacco
& Vanzetti, Fats Domino, Vietnam, Squirrels, Royal
Jelly, the IWW,
and Marie's Father's Billfold.
All from ze beat
viewpoint, of course, you unnerstand.
> i dont appreciate these things.
=== learn to
appreciate everything, because everything is significant.
> so please oh
please would someone post instructions on the
> matter.
=== Like, man,
you can check out any time you like, but you can never
leave.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - ky
chasing the ghost
of Lorca
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:54:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-24 18:06:26 EST,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to
Bukowski's "Hostage" CD
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
writes:
<<
"Electronic Revolution" - Left Bank Books, 1971 - ???? >>
Supposedly out of
print. A few months ago I saw it lying around a Borders
(this was before
I knew how rare it was), and later when I tried to find t
again it wasn't
there. <A
HREF="http://www.hyperreal.org/wsb/elect-rev.html">
The Electronic
Revolution</A> http://www.hyperreal.org/wsb/elect-rev.html
I think this site
has the full text, though. It's a really neat book.Not quite
done reading it,
but I'd love to discuss it when I have.
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Juno-Line-Breaks:
1,4,6,9,12-14
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Lewis <kokupokit@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: mc: yet again, delete at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
delete at will-
good idea! i think i'll do that, along with the iraqi
petition, and all
other things i'm not very interested in.
what i'm
interested in is reading beat literature.
not deciding who's
beat and who's
not. also not interested in ts eliot,
bob dylan and 90%
of the other crap
thats discussed.
(i use the word
crap, because that's what I think it is. doesn't
necessarily make
it so.)
(i have to put
that in, because i know someone is going to respond and
say i don't
appreciate these things. i'll save ya the trouble and say it
myself- i dont
appreciate these things.)
what i really
want to do is log off of this list formerly known as the
beat list. so
please oh please would someone post instructions on the
matter.
thank you very
much-
one fed up
customer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to
buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely
free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at
(800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:49:16 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Oatmeal Stout
wrote:
>
> I have
always heard about these WSB books, but my eyes have never beheld
> copies of
them.....does anyone know more about these? Are they novels,
> cut-ups,
nonfiction, essays, what?
> "The
Retreat Diaries" - ????
>
The Retreat
Diaries, a city Moon Publication, small
book, white cover,
red siluette of
william on cover.
City Moon
Broadcast number 3
containing,
The Retreat Diaries by WSB
With the dream of Tibet by ag
introduction by james Grauerholz
it is one of my
favorite books, They originally cost me
$2.50. I have
several. I heard a good condition unautographed one
recently sold for
$200. I heard
another one sold for $50. It pieces have
probably been
printed in other
works.
I also have a
little chap book called Ruski, by wsb. which is a
delight. It was inspired by an old acquiantance of
mine, Rusky the
beautiful blue
russian cat, it was williams mean old
blue russain.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:02:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:11 PM
2/24/1998 +0100, Jeffrey Scott Holland wrote:
>I have always
heard about these WSB books, but my eyes have never beheld
>copies of
them.....does anyone know more about these? Are they novels,
>cut-ups,
nonfiction, essays, what?
I have these two:
>"Dead
Fingers Talk" - I hear a lot about this novel but I understand
>it's never
been published in America.....why? Anyone have this?
If I remember
correctly, this is sections of _Naked Lunch_, The Soft
Machine_, and
_The Ticket that Exploded_ and is interspersed with
unpublished
material that makes up a new book. I
believe that this
was originally
supposed to be an intro-reader to Burroughs in England,
due to the
backlash that _Naked Lunch_ was causing elsewhere. The
British publisher
felt if they could get enough critical support for
_DFT_ they could
get support from the literary community to defend
an eventual
publishing of _NL_ in England.
>"Four
Horsemen of the Apocalypse" - Published only in Germany, and in
>the German
language? Was there ever an English translation?
This edition is
German/English. One half of the book is
in German
the other English. I believe this was a speech that Burroughs
presented in 1980
at the Institute of Eurotechnics.
Burroughs,
William Seward. _Four Horsemen of the
Apocalypse_. Bonn,
W. Germany:
Expanded Media Editions, 1988.
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[204.210.0.21]
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:24:21 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Christopher Moore
<benelux@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I have always
heard about these WSB books, but my eyes have never
beheld
>copies of
them.....does anyone know more about these? Are they novels,
>cut-ups,
nonfiction, essays, what?
>"Le
Festin Nu" - ????
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
>listening to
Bukowski's "Hostage" CD
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
JSH: "Le Festin Nu" is a French
translation of "Naked Lunch".
I
purchased a copy
of it in Paris last summer for 40F. I
don't have it
next to me at the
moment, so I'm not sure when it was published or who
the translater
is, although, if you're interested, I can find out by
next month (you
see, the book is at my father's house).
Christopher.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:26:50 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sorry as to your
question,
The Retreat Diaries is an essay,
containing sections of williams diary
when he was on a
buddist retreat suggested by Rinpoche
it also contains
a dream by james G. which is a nice little peice,
probably not
reproduced elswhere. The piece by allen
G. is about a
dream he had of
tibet
Ruski is a tiny
grey chapbook (1984)
I will copy some
of the pages, so you can get a feel for it.
They called him
the Great Gatsby, Came from nowhere, rented a big house
and started
giving parties, plenty of good booze and chow.
It wasn't
long before they
found out his bounty was not exactly free.
He levied a
toll on his
guests and that tol was known as Ruski.
ruski was a
purple-gray
cat. The color is known as Russian Blue,
so he called his
cat Ruski.
"You see
he's a KGB Colonel and bucking for General"
They thought this was funny at first;
someone would say somethingand he
would ask,
"What do you think about that, Ruski?" and translate Ruski's
answer back,
which was always tactless and insulting.
And Ruski had questions for
guests...personal questions.
patricia
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> Oatmeal
Stout wrote:
> >
> > I have
always heard about these WSB books, but my eyes have never beheld
> > copies
of them.....does anyone know more about these? Are they novels,
> >
cut-ups, nonfiction, essays, what?
> >
"The Retreat Diaries" - ????
> >
>
> The Retreat
Diaries, a city Moon Publication, small
book, white cover,
> red siluette
of william on cover.
> City Moon
Broadcast number 3
> containing,
> The Retreat Diaries by WSB
> With the dream of Tibet by ag
> introduction by james Grauerholz
>
> it is one of
my favorite books, They originally cost
me $2.50. I have
>
several. I heard a good condition
unautographed one recently sold for
> $200. I
heard another one sold for $50. It
pieces have probably been
> printed in
other works.
> I also have
a little chap book called Ruski, by wsb. which is a
>
delight. It was inspired by an old
acquiantance of mine, Rusky the
> beautiful
blue russian cat, it was williams mean
old blue russain.
> patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:41:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
J.S. Holland
wrote:
> I have
always heard about these WSB books, but my eyes have never beheld
> copies of
them.....does anyone know more about these? Are they novels,
> cut-ups,
nonfiction, essays, what?
>
>
"Roosevelt After Inauguration" - I know this was a short piece
published
> in Floating
Bear in 1961, but there was a book by the same name
> published by
Fuck You Press in 1964....is this just a reprint of the
> piece in a
small book, or is more material added?
The Fuck You
Press edition was a mimeo reprint of the Floating Bear piece.
In 1979 City
Lights
published
ROOSEVELT AFTER INAUGURATION And Other Atrocities, which included
the title piece,
a facsimile of the hand-drawn (by Ginsberg) cover for the
Fuck You Press
edition, plus three other short pieces...Sects And Death,
The Whole Tamale,
and When Did I Stop Wanting To Be President?
>
"Cobblestone Gardens" - published by Cherry Valley Press in 1976.
> "The
Retreat Diaries" - ????
These two are
reprinted along with some other early material in The
Burroughs File
(City Lights 1984).
Regards,
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:45:16 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> Sorry as to
your question,
> The Retreat Diaries is an essay,
containing sections of williams
diary
> when he was
on a buddist retreat suggested by Rinpoche
>
> it also
contains a dream by james G. which is a nice little peice,
> probably not
reproduced elswhere. The piece by allen
G. is about a
> dream he had
of tibet
As far as I can
tell, the complete Retreat Diaries (including Grauerholz's
and Ginsberg's
contributions) is reprinted in The Burroughs File.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:50:01 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB's oeuvre
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
J.S. Holland
wrote:
> And lastly,
these entries turned up on Amazon.com's database....are
> these by our
WSB, or by another William S.Burroughs??....
>
> Strange,
Amazing & Mysterious Places
This is a large
coffee table book about the pyramids, Angkor Wat, Machu
Picchu, Pompeii,
etc. with an introduction (only) by WSB.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:52:44 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB's oeuvre
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Heineken wrote:
>
> Whoops, some
addendums to my own list, more books I don't have:
>
> Ruski (who
published this, Patricia?)
Hand-Job Press
christopher Blake
brooklyn, New
York
500 copies,
numbered. i have Nu. 29
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:03:46 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB's oeuvre
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> All WSB
bibliographies I've seen on the web are incomplete. I'm trying
> to compile a
list of all books by WSB (not counting interview books like
> "The
Job", RE/Search, or Bockris)
Indispensible is
_William S. Burroughs: A Reference Guide_ by Michael
B. Goodman &
Lemuel B. Coley (New York: Garland Pub., 1990)
It's not entirely
complete, but lists almost everything by or about
WSB (incl. his
books, translations, articles, reviews, secondary
sources,
manuscript collections, films, recordings, etc.) up thru '90.
I myself am
attempting to compile a bibliography of things not
included in the
Goodman bib., as well as things that have come out
since '90. Hope
to post it in a few days.
*******
Jeff Taylor
jeff.taylor@vanderbilt.edu
taylorj@library.vanderbilt.edu
*******
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:43:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bob Lewis wrote:
also not
interested in ts eliot, bob dylan and 90%
of the other crap
thats discussed.
>=== the big existential
dilemma here is that this list seems to be torn
>between two
warring factions, one who sees this as a list FOR Beats, and
>those who see
it as a list ABOUT Beats, specifically the first original
>batch of big
kahunas.
>
>But the
poets, beatniks, proto-Beats, and assorted Hipster Be-bop
>Junkies don't
just wanna talk ABOUT Beat like it was, in the words of
>Joe Pesci,
"some remote fuckin' expanse in ancient history", we wanna
>talk and
think and live and ooze in the moment that IS, dig; a Beat mind
>is always
thinkin', gears a-turnin', daddy-o, and in the course of just
>one
wine-soaked evening a person in a quasi-Kerouacian state o'mind
>might talk
about all kinds o' shtuff, like war, fallout shelters, Ezra
>Pound, Green
Acres, bottled water, Tiger shit, the new mint flavored
>Yoo-Hoo,
Smurfs, Unrequited love, The State of the Union, fried stuff,
>pain, garlic,
parking tickets, Why Johnny can't read, Catholicism,
>Ism-ism,
Leonardo Da Vinci, Fiberglas, Cake, skinny-dipping, virtual
>pets, Andre
Gide, imitation crab meat, Adam Ant, watercress, Dixieland
>Jazz,
literacy, Ed Wood, nihilism, tits, carpentry, dirt, hormones,
>regret, bad
surrealist haikus, semi-automatic weapons, mittens, the
>importance of
being Ernest Tubb, school glue, bondage, The Ultimate
>Spinach,
erlenmeyer flasks, Carol Channing, baked potatoes, LeRoi Jones,
>geodes, table
saws, Poker, Hubert Humphrey, "Cheiro's Book of Numbers",
>lint,
carbohydrates, why you can't keep your eyes open when sneezing,
>turpentine,
Sacco & Vanzetti, Fats Domino, Vietnam, Squirrels, Royal
>Jelly, the
IWW, and Marie's Father's Billfold.
>
>All from ze
beat viewpoint, of course, you unnerstand.
Now if that ain't
beat. I'll bend over and kiss my ass and beat my meat at
the same time in
Times Square on New Years Eve. It's so beat it's
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat
and even beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeater still It's
even
beboparooba-piddlee-diddlee-beat sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet beeeeeeeat
Marie, that poem
was fucking great. I'll slide through oodles of nonsensical
hogwash to read
one poem like that any day. Keep em coming MC. PC
To Bob: You may
leave the list at any time by sending a
"SIGNOFF BEAT-L"
command in the
body of the text to the e-mail address
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
and poof you will
no longer get any boring posts. Thanks for coming and
don't let the
door hit you in the ass on the way out. PC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:41:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeffrey Perchuk
wrote:
>
> At 11:43 PM
2/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Bob
Lewis wrote:
> >
> >also not
interested in ts eliot, bob dylan and 90%
> >of the
other crap thats discussed.
> >
> >>===
the big existential dilemma here is that this list seems to be torn
>
>>between two warring factions, one who sees this as a list FOR Beats,
and
>
>>those who see it as a list ABOUT Beats, specifically the first original
>
>>batch of big kahunas.
> >>
> >>But
the poets, beatniks, proto-Beats, and assorted Hipster Be-bop
>
>>Junkies don't just wanna talk ABOUT Beat like it was, in the words of
> >>Joe
Pesci, "some remote fuckin' expanse in ancient history", we wanna
> >>talk
and think and live and ooze in the moment that IS, dig; a Beat mind
> >>is
always thinkin', gears a-turnin', daddy-o, and in the course of just
> >>one
wine-soaked evening a person in a quasi-Kerouacian state o'mind
>
>>might talk about all kinds o' shtuff, like war, fallout shelters, Ezra
>
>>Pound, Green Acres, bottled water, Tiger shit, the new mint flavored
>
>>Yoo-Hoo, Smurfs, Unrequited love, The State of the Union, fried stuff,
>
>>pain, garlic, parking tickets, Why Johnny can't read, Catholicism,
>
>>Ism-ism, Leonardo Da Vinci, Fiberglas, Cake, skinny-dipping, virtual
> >>pets,
Andre Gide, imitation crab meat, Adam Ant, watercress, Dixieland
>
>>Jazz, literacy, Ed Wood, nihilism, tits, carpentry, dirt, hormones,
>
>>regret, bad surrealist haikus, semi-automatic weapons, mittens, the
>
>>importance of being Ernest Tubb, school glue, bondage, The Ultimate
>
>>Spinach, erlenmeyer flasks, Carol Channing, baked potatoes, LeRoi
Jones,
>
>>geodes, table saws, Poker, Hubert Humphrey, "Cheiro's Book of
Numbers",
>
>>lint, carbohydrates, why you can't keep your eyes open when sneezing,
>
>>turpentine, Sacco & Vanzetti, Fats Domino, Vietnam, Squirrels,
Royal
>
>>Jelly, the IWW, and Marie's Father's Billfold.
> >>
> >>All
from ze beat viewpoint, of course, you unnerstand.
> >
> >Now if
that ain't beat. I'll bend over and kiss my ass and beat my meat at
> >the same
time in Times Square on New Years Eve. It's so beat it's
>
>beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat and even beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeater still It's
> >even
beboparooba-piddlee-diddlee-beat sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet beeeeeeeat
> >
> >Marie,
that poem was fucking great. I'll slide through oodles of nonsensical
> >hogwash
to read one poem like that any day. Keep em coming MC. PC
> >
> >To Bob:
You may leave the list at any time by
sending a "SIGNOFF BEAT-L"
> >command
in the body of the text to the e-mail
address
>
>LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >and poof
you will no longer get any boring posts. Thanks for coming and
> >don't
let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. PC
> >
> >
>
> I don't see
what all the fuss is about--if there's something you wanna talk
> about, then
go ahead and talk. But maybe people will like it better when it
> hooks up
with the Beat thing in a clear, definable way. I'm not even sure
> myself what
the parameters of this whole thing really are. So I guess we'll
> just have to
make it up as we go along------?
>
> J.
Perchuk
i don't mind
occassional forays into something else than beat literature
or art but the
amount of unrelated crap that has blessed the list lately
was making me
think I wanted off. I hated losing James Stauffer, he has
a good mind, a
good heart and is different enough from me to give my
mine a little
extra electricity. i have no desire to
join the endless
chats of where
you coming from man than i had in answering the question
what's your
sign. I really like maries poem and i
appreciate the
warning subject
titles, even though i have a suggestion that she start
numbering final
versions so we can tell them apart. I
printed off the
billfold poem and
plan to hand it to a certain sob that sits in a bar
and waxes about
family. If you can't actually relate it to beat
literature or art
then PLEASE consider backchannel.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:49:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk <legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:43 PM
2/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Bob Lewis
wrote:
>
>also not
interested in ts eliot, bob dylan and 90%
>of the other
crap thats discussed.
>
>>=== the
big existential dilemma here is that this list seems to be torn
>>between
two warring factions, one who sees this as a list FOR Beats, and
>>those who
see it as a list ABOUT Beats, specifically the first original
>>batch of
big kahunas.
>>
>>But the
poets, beatniks, proto-Beats, and assorted Hipster Be-bop
>>Junkies
don't just wanna talk ABOUT Beat like it was, in the words of
>>Joe
Pesci, "some remote fuckin' expanse in ancient history", we wanna
>>talk and
think and live and ooze in the moment that IS, dig; a Beat mind
>>is always
thinkin', gears a-turnin', daddy-o, and in the course of just
>>one
wine-soaked evening a person in a quasi-Kerouacian state o'mind
>>might
talk about all kinds o' shtuff, like war, fallout shelters, Ezra
>>Pound,
Green Acres, bottled water, Tiger shit, the new mint flavored
>>Yoo-Hoo,
Smurfs, Unrequited love, The State of the Union, fried stuff,
>>pain,
garlic, parking tickets, Why Johnny can't read, Catholicism,
>>Ism-ism,
Leonardo Da Vinci, Fiberglas, Cake, skinny-dipping, virtual
>>pets,
Andre Gide, imitation crab meat, Adam Ant, watercress, Dixieland
>>Jazz,
literacy, Ed Wood, nihilism, tits, carpentry, dirt, hormones,
>>regret,
bad surrealist haikus, semi-automatic weapons, mittens, the
>>importance
of being Ernest Tubb, school glue, bondage, The Ultimate
>>Spinach,
erlenmeyer flasks, Carol Channing, baked potatoes, LeRoi Jones,
>>geodes,
table saws, Poker, Hubert Humphrey, "Cheiro's Book of Numbers",
>>lint,
carbohydrates, why you can't keep your eyes open when sneezing,
>>turpentine,
Sacco & Vanzetti, Fats Domino, Vietnam, Squirrels, Royal
>>Jelly,
the IWW, and Marie's Father's Billfold.
>>
>>All from
ze beat viewpoint, of course, you unnerstand.
>
>Now if that
ain't beat. I'll bend over and kiss my ass and beat my meat at
>the same time
in Times Square on New Years Eve. It's so beat it's
>beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat
and even beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeater still It's
>even
beboparooba-piddlee-diddlee-beat sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet beeeeeeeat
>
>Marie, that
poem was fucking great. I'll slide through oodles of nonsensical
>hogwash to
read one poem like that any day. Keep em coming MC. PC
>
>To Bob: You
may leave the list at any time by
sending a "SIGNOFF BEAT-L"
>command in
the body of the text to the e-mail
address
>LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>and poof you
will no longer get any boring posts. Thanks for coming and
>don't let the
door hit you in the ass on the way out. PC
>
>
I don't see what
all the fuss is about--if there's something you wanna talk
about, then go
ahead and talk. But maybe people will like it better when it
hooks up with the
Beat thing in a clear, definable way. I'm not even sure
myself what the
parameters of this whole thing really are. So I guess we'll
just have to make
it up as we go along------?
J.
Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:23:20 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What information
does anyone have about thebook and the author
"Minor
Characters" by Joyce Johnson. Was told she
wrote about the
hangers-on to the
fifties Beats.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:58:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: CIA Report on Bay of Pigs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I read the piece
in Barnes asnd Ignoble. Did you rewrite
this
whole article?
Miike rice
At 07:58 AM
2/24/98 EST, you wrote:
>for those of
you who live in NYC, i'm figuring many of you saw this on the
>cover of the
Times yesterday. if not, or if you're elsewhere, here you go...
>
>________________________________________________________
>from The New
York Times; February 22, 1998
>
>C.I.A. Bares
Own Bungling in Bay of Pigs Report
> By TIM WEINER
>
>ASHINGTON --
One of the most secret documents of the
>Cold War is
out: the CIA's brutally honest inquest into the 1961
>Bay of Pigs
fiasco, which laid the blame for the disastrous invasion of
>Cuba squarely
on the agency's own institutional arrogance, ignorance and
>incompetence.
>The 150-page
document also cautioned those who would use the CIA to
>overthrow
enemies, saying that job belongs to the Pentagon and its broad
>arsenal of
military forces around the globe.
>The report
painted a picture of an agency shot through with deadly
>self-deception,
one whose secret operations were "ludicrous or tragic or
>both."
In mounting the Cuban operation, almost none of the CIA officers
>were able to
speak Spanish, yet those same officers heaped contempt on
>their Cuban
"puppets" hand-picked to replace Fidel Castro, the report
>said.
>The Bay of
Pigs invasion, carried out in April 1961, was organized by the
>CIA and was
intended to lead to the overthrow of Castro, whose
>Communist
government just 90 miles from the Florida coast was seen as a
>beachhead for
Soviet influence in the Western Hemisphere.
>While the
basic facts of the commando raid on Cuba are known, the
>report,
titled "The Inspector General's Survey of the Cuban Operation," is
>an untapped
well of cold, hard facts. A leading historian of the operation,
>Peter Wyden,
wrote wistfully in his book "Bay of Pigs: The Untold Story"
>(Simon &
Schuster, 1979) that the report was "probably buried forever."
>Last week,
after 36 years of secrecy during which all but one copy of the
>report was
destroyed, a Freedom of Information Act request by the
>National
Security Archive, a nonproft group, unearthed the sole surviving
>volume, which
was locked in the safe of the director of CIA. The report,
>written by
the CIA's inspector general, Lyman Kirkpatrick, after a
>six-month
investigation, is a record of bungling by the best and the
>brightest and
makes for chilling reading.
>The CIA's
leaders believed that it was President John F. Kennedy's
>failure to
approve an attack on Cuba's air force to coincide with the
>landing of
commandos that caused the deaths of nearly 114 raiders.
>Another 1,189
were captured; the rest of the 1,500 either never landed or
>made their
way back to safety.
>And in their
rebuttals to the report by Kirkpatrick, they wrote that his
>depiction of
"unmitigated and almost willful bumbling and disaster" -- in the
>words of Gen.
Charles Cabell, then deputy director of the CIA -- was
>motivated by
personal malice. Kirkpatrick had wanted to be the agency's
>spymaster,
but his career advancement stalled when he contracted polio in
>the early
1950s.
>The report
said the operation, whose planning began in April 1960,
>started as a
classic covert action "in which the hand of the United States
>would not
appear." The plan called for a group of exiled Cuban leaders,
>supported by
a CIA cadre, to build political momentum slowly toward
>toppling
Castro, who had taken power 16 months earlier.
>Very quickly,
"this operation took on a life of its own," the report said.
>"The
agency was going forward without knowing precisely what it was
>doing."
>The CIA's
officers "became so wrapped up in the operation as such that
>they lost
sight of ultimate goals." Their budget multiplied from $4.4 million
>to $46
million. Within a year, they created an unruly, ill-trained, crudely
>supported
invasion force whose cover was blown, and whose existence
>had been
broadly hinted at in newspaper reports before the operation
>took place.
"Plausible denial" -- the ability of the United States to lie
>convincingly
about its role in the invasion -- became "a pathetic illusion,"
>the report
said.
>With
crisscrossing lines of communication and control among bases and
>camps in
Miami, Key West, New Orleans, Nicaragua and Guatemala, all
>under
sporadic command from headquarters, the CIA created a "complex
>and bizarre
organizational situation" that was doomed to fail.
>The officers
chosen to staff the huge operation were in many instances
>incapable;
"very few spoke Spanish or had Latin-American background
>knowledge,"
the report said.
>Even today,
CIA officials say that this lack of foreign languages and
>experience
remains one of the biggest problems at the agency.
>Agency
employees treated the Cubans training to overthrow Castro "like
>dirt."
The abuse left the hungry, barefoot, disillusioned trainees "wondering
>what kind of
Cuban future they were fighting for."
>The
Revolutionary Council, the CIA-created alternative to Castro,
>became the
agency's "puppets," as described in the report. "Isolated in a
>Miami safe
house, 'voluntarily' but under strong persuasion, the
>Revolutionary
Council members awaited the outcome of a military
>operation
which they had not planned and knew little about while
>agency-written
bulletins were issued to the world in their name."
>If the CIA
could not work with Cubans, Kirkpatrick warned
>prophetically,
"how can the agency possibly succeed with the natives of
>Black Africa
or Southeast Asia?"
>President
Kennedy had been in office just three months when the invasion
>took place.
The report argued that he might not have fully grasped the
>details of
the raid, because the CIA did not fully explain them. "Detailed
>policy
authorization for some specific actions was either never fully
>clarified or
only resolved at the 11th hour," it said. "Even the central
>decision as
to whether to employ the strike force was still somewhat in
>doubt up to
the very moment of embarkation."
>The CIA
convinced itself and the White House that the invasion would
>magically
create in Cuba "an organized resistance that did not exist,"
>composed of
30,000 Cubans who would "make their way through the
>Castro army
and wade the swamps to rally to the liberators." This was
>self-deception,
the report said, adding drily, "We are unaware of any
>planning by
the agency or by the U.S. government for this success."
>On April 15,
1961, CIA pilots knocked out part of Castro's air force,
>and were set
to finish the job. At the last minute, on April 16, Kennedy
>called off
the air strikes, but the message did not reach the 1,511
>commandos
headed for the Bay of Pigs. Three days of fighting destroyed
>the invading
force. A brigade commander sent his final messages: "We are
>out of ammo
and fighting on the beach. Please send help," and: "In water.
>Out of ammo.
Enemy closing in. Help must arrive in next hour."
>It never
came. Over the next few days two American teams and a crew of
>Cuban frogmen
plucked 26 survivors off the beaches and reefs.
>After the
inquiry completed its work, the agency clearly viewed the report
>as poison:
"In unfriendly hands, it can become a weapon unjustifiably to
>attack the
entire mission, organization, and functions of the agency,"
>warned
Cabell, the deputy director at the time. Nevertheless, the CIA
>agreed to
release the report as part of a slow process of making public
>parts of its
past.
>Read with
hindsight, the accumulated weight of the details in Kirkpatrick's
>report makes
a case that "the fundamental cause of the disaster" was the
>CIA's
incompetence, not Kennedy's failure to follow through with the air
>raids in
support of the commandos.
>The agency
failed the president by failing to tell him "that success had
>become
dubious and to recommend that the operation be therefore
>canceled,"
it said.
>The
consequence of canceling was chagrin: "The world already knew all
>about the
preparations, and the government's and the agency's
>embarrassment
would have been public," the report said. The cost of
>continuing
was "failure, which brought even more embarrassment, carried
>death and
misery to hundreds" and wounded American prestige. "The
>choice was
between retreat without honor and a gamble between
>ignominious
defeat and dubious victory," the report said.
>"The
agency chose to gamble, at rapidly decreasing odds," in an operation
>sabotaged by
bad intelligence, incompetent staffing, illusionary planning,
>and
self-deception. In the future, it concluded, when the White House
>wanted to
engage in major covert operations "which may profoundly
>affect world
events," it should call the Defense Department, not the CIA.
>The report
was released under the Freedom of Information Act to the
>National
Security Archive, which collects and publishes declassified
>government
documents.
>Peter
Kornbluh, director of the archive's Cuba Documentation Project,
>called the
report "one of the most important examples of self-criticism
>ever written
inside the agency." He said it would be posted on Sunday at
>the archive's
Web site: http://www.seas.gwu.edu/nsarchive.
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:17:40 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: The significance of numbering crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
patricia:(and
phil) i'm glad you lke the poems. the numerical system will
benefit
me as well as
those out there setting up chapbooks for them (the finished ones i
mean). i get
easily confused as well.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:01:07 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Red Ale <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Excerpt from "714"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
...an excerpt
from "714", a novel by Jeffrey Scott Holland
Jonathan Ray is staring into
the computer monitor, grinning like a
lost
Mexican wrestler
who's just stumbled onto the treasure of the Sierra
Madre. The
answers he has been seeking have fallen into his virtual lap,
thanks to the
magic of the Internet. Now there is nothing to stop him
from
putting his
master plan into effect. Venceremos!
BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM
The door. Jonathan's heart freezes. Not
expecting company.
Sitting here
naked, and all
sorts of illicit items laying out in plain view. *I will
try not to
breathe*, Jonathan said to himself. *If they catch me in here
like this, all is
lost*. The door knocked again.
Moments the size of battleships passed.
*They'll give up and
come back
later.*
Whoever was on the other side produced
a set of keys, and the
sound of
them jingling
sent Jonathan's blood pressure soaring. The sound of them
being inserted
into the keyhole nearly sent his head flying off. He
lunged for the
door as it began to open, pushing a heavy box of records
with his foot
against the door to help block it.
"Ah, excuse me, I'm, uh, changing
clothes in here. Heh."
"*I'm* sorry, I didn't think
anyone was in here...." It was
either the
man who owned
this office building or it was his flunky, couldn't tell
by the voice.
"Be right with you." I
relocked the door and hastily put on my
cleanest
suit, which was
not clean by even a hobo's standards. Wrinkled all to
hell, and lunch
and cumstains all over the pants. Where's my hat?
Where's my hat?
Grabbed a CD to check my reflection in it. Jesus. I look
like Jim the Wino
from 'Taxi'. I grabbed the phone, quickly dialed my
own
pager number, and
hung up.
Opened the door and tried to adopt the
posture and tone of a
respectable
businessman, a man of finance, and a captain of industry.
The office building owner's flunky
stood there, with the bitch
across
the hall standing
behind him, craning her neck and gawking like an
onlooker at a
traffic accident. Both of looked first not at me, but at
my office behind
me. They had clearly come to sneak a peek at what goes
in here. There
were liquor bottles and trash everywhere. Ellen's bra was
draped over the
couch, and there were many large water bottles filled
with urine around
my desk. I had a bad habit of being so sucked into
surfing the net
that I didn't even get up to piss, I just sat there and
peed in empty
water bottles; and they had begun to pile up.
Then they looked at me, up and down,
and their faces made no
attempt to
conceal their
distaste. An uncomfortable moment passed.
The bitch spoke, in the condescending
voice of a daytime talk
show
hostess:
"Exactly what kind of business do you run, Mr.Ray?"
I knew that I should kiss ass. I knew
that what I said and did
at this
juncture would
determine whether I'd be allowed to stay here. Problem
is, I just dont
like being put on trial like this. "I will not have any
damn
ultimatums put to
me", as Oliver Stone's Jim Garrison said.
"I am an importer/exporter of
Japanese nostrums", I said with a
straight face.
They managed a wan nod and a weak "oh...". The door they
had been knocking
on said clearly in huge letters, "JONATHAN RAY -
COLLECTOR AND
DEALER OF ANTIQUES" so it was a profoundly dumb question
in the first
place.
"We've had a report of, ah, an odd
smell coming from around
here. We
were just
checking in to make sure something hadn't spilled or
something....."
Jeez, I don't smell *that* bad.
"It's probably the Tiger urine,
I'm really sorry about that.
I've been
packaging it for
a client in Okinawa." My pager went off. "Oh, got a
page." I
consulted its readout. "Well, gotta make this call. Let me get
back to you,
okay? We'll do lunch." I slammed the door on their pasty
republican faces,
mouths open like stunned goldfishes.
Might as well start packing now.
**************
Sure enough, next morning a letter was
taped to my front door:
Bob Dullard
Dullard Office
Complex
105 Five St.
Richmond, KY
40475
October 11, 1996
Jonathan Ray
JSR Antiques
105 Five St.,
#207
Richmond, KY
40475
Dear Mr.Ray:
Please consider
this a notice for your eviction by November 1, 1996, due
to you not
complying with what I feel to be standard business behavior
and operations as
well as complaints made by other, good standing
tenants in this
building. Please return your key by the above date.
Sincerely,
Bob Dullard
**************
"Due to you not
complying"....what clumsy phrasing, doesn't this
shmuck
know how to
dictate a letter? Never trust a guy with a male secretary,
anyway, I always
say. "Standard business
behavior", hell, it's not like
I come to work in
a clown costume with my pecker hanging out. I come in
quietly, mind my
own business, never played music loud until the
building closed
and everyone else went home......but these monkeys know
I'm the enemy.
They can smell it. And I don't mean the smell rising off
my shoes....
These fuckers can smell the enemy...... Like dogs can
smell fear. You
can wear a suit and tie, but you can't hide your lyin'
eyes. Dwight Frye
said that. Or somebody like that.
I suppose now is the time to try my
luck in Atlanta for awhile.
Get
another office
over there or something, shack up with Polly for a
season.....what a
pain it's going to be moving all this crap out of
this office,
10,000 record albums, all these books and clothes and
shit.
Later that night, after the building
was silent and all other
offices were
empty, I drank whiskey until the wee hours, playing records
and packing. I
began screaming.
"You bald headed itchy-assed
bastards!!! Don't you know who I
am??? I am the
God of Hell Fire!! You're not just evicting ME, ya know,
you're also
evicting Blind Willie Johnson! And Jaybird Coleman! And
Sharkey Bonano!
And Red Norvo! And Stovepipe Smith! And Muggsy Spanier!
And...." on
into the night.
***************
I got moved out on time, thanks to
Jesse's help. I left the desk in
there, but took
the drawers with me so no one else could use it. It
weighed a ton and
it took three big guys to get it in there in the first
place. I also
left a mountain of garbage in there, including the bottles
of urine and some
old socks. Went in dressed up in a clean snazzy
business
suit to drop off
the key. Before I could even get up to the office, some
yuppie stopped me
and asked me "can I HELP you with something??" as if I
was
a bum that just
staggered in off the street or something. You can wear a
suit
and tie, but one
thing you can't hide is when you're crippled inside.
Jack
Lemmon said that.
Or somebody like that.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - KY
hearing pancakes
call his name
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:10:03 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Red Ale <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: Excerpt from "714"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
oops,
cut-n-pasting text from SimpleText sometimes makes it come out all
wonky when pasted
into an e-mail, and wonky it was indeed. Sorry about
the unintended
random layout; Just pretend I'm trying to be Hubert
Selby,Jr.
=-=-=
JSH
Kyyyyyyyyyyy
=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:03:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Reality Check
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Have a look at
Time Magazine's essay on the CNN "Town Meeting."
Its really just a
TV hype that backfired on the network and
Clinton. The day after the State of the Union, Clinton
came
to my area and
got a lot of local folks to wave flags and act
like they
approved of his State of the Union. Of
course, they
did no such
thing. They may not have even watched
it. They were
just glad he
brought his "munificense" to our area. These kinds
of TV spectacles
are a fraud. As a practitioner of small
town
politics, I can
tell you that "loading a meeting", usually a
committee
meeting, during consideration of a local special interest
issue, is easy as
pie. I've done it myself on more than
one occasion.
Even the canniest
politician can't quite figure out you've done it.
Manipulating
public opinion is easy as pie if you know how the news
cycles work and
how to influence them. That is why
public opinion is
rarely worth listening
to, since almost all public opinion is manipulated
by people who
know how to do it. The folks interviewed
by the pollsters
don't even know
generally how to state the issues properly (the pollsters
have to do that
for them), let alone react to them seriously.
Mike Rice
George Will's
column in the back of Newsweek also points up the
ludicrousness of
TV town meetings.
At 09:34 AM
2/23/98 +0100, you wrote:
>jo grant
wrote:
>
>> The
response from Middle America-- from DEMONSTRATORS--
>> forced
Clinton to pull back and lighten up.
>>
>> I can understand your cynicism; however, there
have been major
>>
demonstrations in cities right across the country.
>
>=== why are
you talking about demonstrations?! I'm all for
>demonstrations!
We were talking about petitions. Politicians don't pay
>attention to
petitions, but they *do* pay attention to demonstrations.
>We need less
of the former and more of the latter. Don't write your name
>on a piece of
paper, write your feelings on a sign and carry it.
>
>
>
>> When
someone complains about a petition opposing senseless
>>
aggression not having a place on the Beat List I can only say,
>>
"Read a little less Jack Keroauc and a little more Angela Davis."
>
>===
"Senseless aggression"? You make it sound like some dry political
>event
discussed by Kissinger and Haldeman over cocktails. A senile,
>drunken
Yeltsin actually used the phrase "World War III" to describe
>Russia's
response if Clinton bombs Iraq, Clinton seems determined to do
>it anyway,
and even if Yeltsin blinks, the environmental fallout from
>another Iraq
war threatens to be catastrophic. This could be the most
>serious event
the world has faced since the Cuban Missile Crisis. This
>ain't the
time for petitions. Save that for when your local zoning board
>wants to
build a new mall or something. Kofi Annan has achieved a peace
>agreement
with Saddam, and Albright said last night that the U.S.
>reserves the
right to bomb Iraq anyway! There's somethin' happenin'
>here, and
what it is, for once, is exactly clear. Read plenty of BOTH
>Jack Kerouac
AND Angela Davis, or read Abbie Hoffman, who combines the
>two.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
>watching TV,
no way to delay
>that trouble
comin' every day
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:03:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Death of a hipster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Rosenberg's
important but what about the 91 year old comic
who authored the
one liner, "Take My Wife, Please!"
Isn't
he important, and
why are these jewish american comedians
starting to live
as long as the 19th century French painters.
Mike Rice
At 10:26 AM
2/23/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Very saddened
to hear of Rosenberg's passing, he was a perfect role
>model for us
all. And it's a damn shame the New York Times gave him such
>a pathetic
eulogy.
>
>
>> he never
amounted to much of anything
>
>=== I can't
believe they actually said something like this in an
>obituary!
>
>
>> Drugs,
of course, were more than an accouterment of
>> hip.
They were its very essence.
>
>=== bullshit.
>
>
>
>>
marijuana, then an exotic drug used
>> only by
jazz musicians
>
>===
uh......right.
>
>
>
>
>> In a
different life, Rosenberg might have used the loft to
>> turn out
masterpieces
>
>=== Oh, so
he's an art critic now. I wonder if he's even seen
>Rosenberg's
paintings?
>
>
>
>
>> had the
foresight to marry a schoolteacher so enamored of his
>>
charming, creative ways that she cheerfully supported the
>> family
while Rosenberg continued to paint
>
>=== This is
just too condescending and smug. I dont think he married her
>with
"foresight" of her money, not that schoolteachers get paid a whole
>hell of a lot
anyway.
>
>Mind you, I
don't mind beatniks being portrayed as lazy mooches - I am
>one myself -
but this is the man's obituary, fer Chrissake!
>
>I dunno,
maybe Rosenberg woulda just said "no, no, it's all true. let
>'em print
it."
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - KY
>goofed out on
Easter candy
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:03:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Eliot
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 09:27 AM
2/23/98 EST, you wrote:
>Bentz is
right that Eliot was certainly a force AG had to work against.
>It's true
also that Pound, in a sense, served as a bridge between the
>two
poets. Ginsberg certainly studied Eliot
at Columbia and I'm sure
>had some
appreciation for Eliot as a poet, particularly in his student
>years when he
was reading so much of the 17th Century verse that
>influenced
"Gates Of Wrath." In the
end, Allen chose Kit Smart and
>Blake over
Donne, Williams and Whitman over Eliot.
>
>But Eliot is
still a great poet, though as a banker in a business suit,
its hard to call
him beat. All these guys are great
poets. New approaches
to poetry do not
defeat old notions, they only have to fight to take their
place beside
them, opinion and criticism being such a conservative thing.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:14:54 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Guinness <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: List Guidelines, or the lack thereof
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill Gargan
wrote:
> As the
listowner, let me put this matter to rest.
As it states
> in the
Welcome Message, this is a list devoted to the lives and
> works of the
literary movement known as the Beat Generation.
> Those
looking for the other type of list are in the wrong place.
=== But the
aforementioned literary movement lives on to this very day,
with or without
the approval or cooperation of its progenitors. If Jack
Kerouac were on
this list, he would be encouraged to wax philosophical
about whatever
popped into his skull, would he not? I am just as
interested in
what goes on in the heads of modern-day
post-proto-quasi-para-pseudo-whatever-sorta-Beats
today as old
Jacker-Wack.
I'm a bit
confused, then - are you saying Marie Countryman should NOT be
posting her poem
about her father? Should I NOT be posting small
excerpts from my
novel? Should all the others who have been posting
their own works
NOT do so? Please clarify.
Most of the
conversation on this list has NOT been directly related to
the "lives
and works of the literary movement known as the Beat
Generation.".....but
what's a listowner to do? Roll out the Zyklon-B?
You can lead a
llama to Wrigley Field, but you can't make him shell out
three bucks for a
hot dog.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - KY
listening to
Sonny Rollins
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:16:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it is also a very
fine book indeed on its own merits. read it.
mc
Jym Mooney wrote:
> Joyce
Johnson was living with Kerouac at the time OTR was published. She
> was also a
close friend of Elise Cowan. "Minor
Characters" (which I read
> last year)
offers some nice insights into the BG scene from a point of view
> not usually
heard from in that notorious boys' club.
>
> Jym
>
> ----------
> > From:
jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
> > To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
> > Date:
Wednesday, February 25, 1998 12:23 AM
> >
> > What
information does anyone have about thebook and the author
> >
> >
"Minor Characters" by Joyce Johnson. Was told she wrote about the
> >
hangers-on to the fifties Beats.
> >
> > j grant
> >
> > HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
> > Details on-line at
> >
http://www.bookzen.com
> > 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:37:40 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cerveza <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: a question posed
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sharon Laurie
wrote:
> I'm wondering what draws people to
beatness/beat writings/beat
> generation
lives.
> For anyone
who would like to comment -- I would be
interested to
> know when
you first identified with and were moved by Kerouac/
> Ginsberg/the
beat concept/etc. -- and how has it played out in
> your life
past or present?
=== As a child, I
was one of those weird prodigies who could read at a
high school level
by the age of 6, but had zilch for common sense or
social skills (my
first grade teacher thought I was autistic because I
never spoke and
preferred to be alone) ... I was a pre-teen when I got a
copy of Abbie
Hoffman's "Revolution For The Hell Of It", which scarred
me for life :)
From there it was a short jump to getting into Ginsberg
and then all the
Beats, and peripheral folks.
Oddly enough, WSB
is my absolute all-time favorite writer now, but it
took me many,
many years to arrive there. I tried to read WSB early on
but as a kid he
bored me... I had a false impression of him as a dry,
dull,
professorial type and as "The Soft Machine" was my first taste of
his writing, I
thought he was good for nothing but pretentious
gibberish. Now,
of course, I'm just the opposite - I worship WSB and
think Ginsberg is
relatively dry, dull and professorial.....odd how Time
is its own
revisionist .....
My reasons for
being attracted to the Beats are partially out a love for
the time period
in general, and out of a respect for intellectual
seekers,
adventurers and rebels in any era; and
the Beats, along with
the greater myth
of the art-dabbling, bookworm "Beatnik", provide the
best (to my sensibilities)
representative of that quest I've seen.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
visit the Creeps
Outpost!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:57:32 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: Death of a hipster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"I don't
have any regrets...they can talk about me plenty when I'm
gone!"
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:55:24 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
winner
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:01:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think Joyce
Johnson was writing more about the women of the beat
generation, since
the BG was a boys club,really...
On Wed, 25 Feb
1998, jo grant wrote:
> What
information does anyone have about thebook and the author
>
> "Minor
Characters" by Joyce Johnson. Was told she
wrote about the
> hangers-on
to the fifties Beats.
>
> j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-MD5:
4glAZeKRIxBHWoYxIt6dVQ==
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:22:56 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nicolai Pharao
<nicpha@CPHLING.DK>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB books
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Is "The Four
Horsemen of the Apocalypse" the same as the text "Apocalypse",
as
read by WSB on
"Dead City Radio", or are they two different texts ?
Last I heard
"Ah Pook Is Here" (which includes "The Book of Breeething")
was out
of print.
Searching through
book store catalogs I have come across books on weather
control and cloud
patterns by a William Burroughs. Does anyone know if these are
by WSB ? It seems
likely in light of his interest in Reich's orgone theory, but
I've never seen
them mentioned in any bibliography of WSB.
nicolai
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:27:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Joyce Johnson was
living with Kerouac at the time OTR was published. She
was also a close
friend of Elise Cowan. "Minor
Characters" (which I read
last year) offers
some nice insights into the BG scene from a point of view
not usually heard
from in that notorious boys' club.
Jym
----------
> From: jo
grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Re:
Joyce Johnson
> Date:
Wednesday, February 25, 1998 12:23 AM
>
> What
information does anyone have about thebook and the author
>
> "Minor
Characters" by Joyce Johnson. Was told she
wrote about the
> hangers-on
to the fifties Beats.
>
> j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:29:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB's oeuvre
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-24 21:51:42 EST, you write:
<<
J.S. Holland wrote:
> And lastly, these entries turned up on
Amazon.com's database....are
> these by our WSB, or by another William
S.Burroughs??....
>
> Strange, Amazing & Mysterious Places
This is a large coffee table book about the
pyramids, Angkor Wat, Machu
Picchu, Pompeii, etc. with an introduction
(only) by WSB.
Jym
>>
A picture book,
as I remember it. Who was the
photographer??
Wasn't there also
a similar item--a collaboration done between WSB and
?Charles
Gilford???????
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:29:26 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cerveza <jholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: WSB's oeuvre
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Some more
unknown-to-me WSB books, which I learned of from J.D. Books'
fine site......
= The
Exterminator (with Brion Gysin) (NOT the same as 1973's
"Exterminator!")
..... Auerhahn Press, 1960.
= Time (with
Brion Gysin).... 'C' Press, 1965.
= Streets of
Chance.....Red Ozier Press, 1981.
= La Machine
Molle (French translation of "The Soft Machine")...1971
= Doctor
Benway.......Bradford Morrow, 1979.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - KY
listening to
sound effects records
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:41:38 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: Signing off List
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
<P><U> Day
Of Leaving</U>
<P>Today
you will be leaving this list. Please<B> do not eat
anything.</B>
If you are
thirsty, you may drink a little water. Insert the list
provided into the
bonce (head). The following method is recommended:
<P> (I)
Take the list (take it easy, but take it).
<P> (II)
Lie on left side and draw your knees up towards your chest,
right leg higher
than the left.
<P> (III)
Gently take the list into the bonce, pointed end first.
The list should
be inserted as far as possible using forefinger (index
finger) and left
in contact with the wall of the bonce.
<P> (IV)
Lower your right leg again, it will help you hold the list
in place.
<P> (V)
You will feel an immediate urge to go to the toilet.
Do not respond to
this feeling, the list will not work for at least 15
minutes.
A BEAT evacuation will occur after 15 to 60 minutes.
<P> (VI)
If you need assistance, be sure that a bedpan, diaper, commode
or help to the
bathroom is available.</HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:04:52 -0800
Reply-To: jdbooks@iname.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "J.D. Books"
<jdbooks@ROCKETMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions about rare WSB works
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Beat-L,
Regarding: Jeffrey Scott Holland's inquiry
into the various
Burroughs'
titles:
I have always heard about these WSB books,
but my eyes have never
beheld copies of
them.....
Over the last year or so I too have become
quite interested in
William
Burroughs' works, and during this time have slowly switched
from
"collecting" to "selling" his works. That this response to Mr.
Holland is a
priori self-serving, I find solace in my belief that
sharing by what
information I am able to helps serve a greater purpose.
Realizing early on that the limited
availability of many of his
rare, scarce, or
"limited editions" would mean little access to the
majority of those
also interested in his ideas and books (be it for
reading, academic
research, or simply viewing purposes), I have
endeavored to
accompany most of the Burroughs' titles on my homepage
with a JPEG
(photograph), that those who are unable to acquire an
original or
out-of-print title may at least have the pleasure of
"beholding"
them.
does anyone know
more about these? Are they novels, cut-ups,
nonfiction,
essays, what?
"Roosevelt
After Inauguration" - I know this was a short piece
published in
Floating Bear in 1961, but there was a book by the same
name published by
Fuck You Press in 1964....is this just a reprint of
the piece in a
small book, or is more material added?
The Fuck You
Press edition (the first printing which has a cover price
of fifty cents
versus the second printing for $1.00) is a paper
pamphlet of
fourteen pink, white, and blue leaves.
It is staple- bound
and mimeographed.
The front cover serves as the title page with an
American flag
with dollar signs instead of stars drawn above the title
and a skull with
a daisy in its teeth inside a star of David.
As you
stated it was
which, though I have seen have never had as part of my
inventory. Burroughs chose to publish it under the
pseudonym of "Willy
Lee" alias
William Burroughs.
According to
Michael Goodman (one of the earliest to compile a
bibliography on
Burroughs), states that "Roosevelt After Inauguration"
is "a
scatological and satiric list of the appointments Roosevelt made
to high cabinet
and government offices. Among the
appointees are
"'Transvestite
Lizzie - - Congressional librarian'" and '"Lonny the
Pimp - -
Ambassador at Large."
As you noted it
did appear in Floating Bear 9:8-10, which was being
edited by Diane
di Prima and Leroi Jones, NY 1961. The
piece,
"Routine:
Roosevelt After Inauguration" was distributed free to a
mailing list but
its distribution was soon forced to stop.
Villiers
Press also
censored the material which was supposed to make up a
portion of
"The Yage Letters." Eventually
Ed Sanders published with
his own Fuck You
Press.
An excellent
reference book is the Maynard & Miles bibliography
(published by The
University of Virginia Press), where the vast
majority of
Burroughs' primary works up through 1973 contain cover
photographs of
the First editions as well as any foreign First
editions(both
hardbound and the paperbacks if applicable).
"Dead
Fingers Talk" - I hear a lot about this novel but I understand
it's never been
published in America.....why? Anyone have this?
Dead Fingers was
published only in England. It is, as
another writer
responded,
comprised of material from Naked Lunch as well as other
title's. Apparently, it places the original works into
a more
"concordant"
format, thereby lessening the disjointedness which is
present in his
earlier publications. Goodman notes that
"arranging and
rearranging of
the chronology of events" Burroughs allows the reader to
"Get out of
time and into space."
"Four
Horsemen of the Apocalypse" - Published only in Germany, and in
the German
language? Was there ever an English translation?
Though it was
published in Germany by Expanded Media Editions (1984),
and apparently
only softbound copies were produced, it is a bi-lingual
work with both
German and English text.
"Cobblestone
Gardens" - published by Cherry Valley Press in 1976. What
IS this??
Cobblestone
Gardens, as many have noted already, is reprinted in "The
Burroughs
File." There were 50 hardbound
signed copies printed which
do however
contain many more photographs than shown in "The Burroughs
File."
>From what I
have read thus far, it is a reflection on his upbringing in
St. Louis,
"Pershing Avenue St. Louis Missouri in the 1920's . . . Red
brick three-story
houses, lawns in front, large backyards with gardens
separated by high
wooden fences overgrown with morning glory and rose
vines and at back
of the yard an ash pit and no one from Sanitation
sniffing around
in those day."
I had read
somewhere that Burroughs had felt remorse over not display a
greater
appreciation for his parents help while they were alive. The
book is
"Dedicated to the memory of my mother and father- 'We never
know how much we
learn|
From those who never will return." -Edward
Arlington Robinson from
"The Man
Flamonde."
"Electronic
Revolution" - Left Bank Books, 1971 - ???? This was
published in
Cambridge by Blackmoor Head in 1971. It
is a limited
edition of 500
copies. 50 copies included two silkscreens signed by
Gysin and were
encased. The first copy, copy
"A" contained all the
sheets which
comprise the original manuscript.
It is an early
appearance of Burroughs' ideas regarding the possible
uses, and abuses,
which can be achieved via the tape recorder and
cut-up or spliced
recordings.
The 1967 Grove
Press edition of "The Ticket That Exploded" contains a
segment entitled
"The Invisible Generation," where similar ideas are
explored.
"The Retreat
Diaries" - ???? I would like note to that Mr. James
Grauerholz, who
can be credited as being the impetus behind Burroughs'
latter works,
(most notably the Trilogy beginning with "Cities of the
Red Night,"
which he "edited into present time," and concludes with
"The Western
Lands") was the publisher of City Moon Books in New York
(1976). It is likely that the seeds of their
partnership were sown
during the
publication of this title. Much of
Burroughs artistic
output as well as
the care he later required both from a managerial
perspective and
later in regards to his failing health is due to their
creative
alliance, which was similar in many regards to the type of
creative alliance
which Burroughs had so enjoyed with his closest
companion Mr.
Gysin who died in 1986, the same year that their last
collaboration
"The Cat Inside" was published.
"Early
Routines" - ???? Published in Santa Barbara by Cadmus editions
in 1981. It is a
collaborative work with the well-known artist David
Hockney. There were 26 lettered copies Signed by both,
150 numbered
copies Signed by
Burroughs, as well as a trade edition. As for content
- I can't locate
a good passage at the moment; rather I am beginning to
think of coffee.
As Goya observed:
-
"The sleep of reason produces monsters."
Best of luck on
the bibliography that ---- mentioned he is working
on. When you feel it's completed please mail me
(or E-mail me a
copy). I would greatly appreciate any information
regarding Burroughs'
works which have
yet to surface.
Best,
Jonathan Baker
c/o -- J.D.
Books -- 314-645-7605 --
P.O. Box 9110
St. Louis
MO 63117-0110
E-mail:
jdbooks@iname.com
http://www.abebooks.com/home/jdbook/
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:29:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Tue, 24 Feb
1998 23:33:37 +0100 Hudepohl said:
>Bob Lewis
wrote:
>
>> also not
interested in ts eliot, bob dylan and 90%
>> of the
other crap thats discussed.
>
>=== the big
existential dilemma here is that this list seems to be torn
>between two
warring factions, one who sees this as a list FOR Beats, and
>those who see
it as a list ABOUT Beats, specifically the first original
>batch of big
kahunas.
>
>But the
poets, beatniks, proto-Beats, and assorted Hipster Be-bop
>Junkies don't
just wanna talk ABOUT Beat like it was, in the words of
>Joe Pesci,
"some remote fuckin' expanse in ancient history", we wanna
>talk and
think and live and ooze in the moment that IS, dig; a Beat mind
>is always
thinkin', gears a-turnin', daddy-o, and in the course of just
>one
wine-soaked evening a person in a quasi-Kerouacian state o'mind
>might talk
about all kinds o' shtuff, like war, fallout shelters, Ezra
>Pound, Green
Acres, bottled water, Tiger shit, the new mint flavored
>Yoo-Hoo,
Smurfs, Unrequited love, The State of the Union, fried stuff,
>pain, garlic,
parking tickets, Why Johnny can't read, Catholicism,
>Ism-ism,
Leonardo Da Vinci, Fiberglas, Cake, skinny-dipping, virtual
>pets, Andre
Gide, imitation crab meat, Adam Ant, watercress, Dixieland
>Jazz,
literacy, Ed Wood, nihilism, tits, carpentry, dirt, hormones,
>regret, bad
surrealist haikus, semi-automatic weapons, mittens, the
>importance of
being Ernest Tubb, school glue, bondage, The Ultimate
>Spinach,
erlenmeyer flasks, Carol Channing, baked potatoes, LeRoi Jones,
>geodes, table
saws, Poker, Hubert Humphrey, "Cheiro's Book of Numbers",
>lint,
carbohydrates, why you can't keep your eyes open when sneezing,
>turpentine,
Sacco & Vanzetti, Fats Domino, Vietnam, Squirrels, Royal
>Jelly, the
IWW, and Marie's Father's Billfold.
>
>All from ze
beat viewpoint, of course, you unnerstand.
>
>
>
>> i dont appreciate these things.
>
>=== learn to
appreciate everything, because everything is significant.
>
>
>
>
>> so
please oh please would someone post instructions on the
>> matter.
>
>=== Like,
man, you can check out any time you like, but you can never
>leave.
>
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - ky
>chasing the
ghost of Lorca
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
As the listowner,
let me put this matter to rest. As it
states in the Welcome
Message, this is
a list devoted to the lives and works of the literary movement
known as the Beat Generation. Those looking for the other type of list are
in
the wrong place.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb
1998 15:23:26 +0000
From: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 2/25/98
my father died
today
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:37:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sharon Laurie
<Shasheblu@AOL.COM>
Subject: a question posed
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi,
I'm new on the
list --
Jeffrey Scott Holland
and PC, thank you for getting me laughing out loud with
your last
evening's beat comedy/poetry/sensibility ---
I got to thinking
about the people who were moved to join this list. I'm
wondering what
draws people to beatness/beat writings/beat generation lives.
For anyone who
would like to comment -- I would be
interested to know when
you first
identified with and were moved by Kerouac/Ginsberg/the beat
concept/etc. --
and how has it played out in your life past or present?
--Sharon
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:04:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: 2/25/98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
from some of the
dharma:
I KNEEL BEFORE
THE DEAD
i flopped his
dead arm.
"he's
gone," i thougth .
"He came and
grew this body,
then he went
away.--
Where is he gone
to?
I don't think he
will return,
Not if he's
smart.
He saw it wasn't
worth it.
He came once, he
lasted ,
he was like a light
Extinguishable in
60 years.
Me, too my arm'll
be dead.
Now he sees me
sitting , in thought,
It's hard for him
to understand my body,
'The spaces and
the big wheels--
I won't see him
any more
In those high
vibrations
But it'll be all
the same
Farewell,
farewell,
And farewell to
farewell,
This is the
shrouded travelller,
And shadows in
the jazz age."
my father, who
loved jazz, died today, 2/25/98
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:57:08 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aaron Sinkovich
wrote on 2/25/98 8:42 PM
[. . . snip . . .
]
>2.
"America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell
meetings..."
>What were the
Communist Cell meetings. Who is Scott
Nearing, Mother Bloor,
>and Israel
Amter. What does mensch mean? Also, I'm using the City Lights
>edition Howl
and Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The Portable
>Beat Reader,
there was a change in the text in this line.
After Mother
>Bloor, it
reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in the
>dicrepancies
between texts?
[. . . snip . .
.]
Ginsberg revised
the poem "America" for publication in his
_Collected Poems
1947-1980_ (New York: Harper and Row, 1984.)
He talks about
the revision in the Preface to _Collected Poems_.
The revised
version was reprinted in subsequent anthologies such
as _The Portable
Beat Reader_.
* * * * | * * * *
| * * * * | * * * * | * * * * |
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:09:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: a question posed
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sharon Laurie
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm new on
the list --
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland and PC, thank you for getting me laughing out loud with
> your last
evening's beat comedy/poetry/sensibility ---
> I got to
thinking about the people who were moved to join this list. I'm
> wondering
what draws people to beatness/beat writings/beat generation lives.
> For anyone
who would like to comment -- I would be
interested to know when
> you first
identified with and were moved by Kerouac/Ginsberg/the beat
> concept/etc.
-- and how has it played out in your life past or present?
> --Sharon
Well, i was
fishing, and running around with william and since he was a
good friend i
thought i should read his stuff. I liked
it a lot. My
parents admired
his work. I didn't get a lot of the humor until I heard
him read. My understanding was incredibly fuller after hearing him
read his works.
He introduced me to a lot of writers,
and artists. Allen G, who was the
sweetest high
energy dude, Timothy Leary who acted like a stoned
professor, Terry
southern who loved to eat duck, these guys I liked.
because of him and my housesitting
while he travel I talked on the
phone to Frank
Zappa, Paul Bowles, both were immediate, sharp and nice.
and well, he also
introduced me to some clinkers like Ted M the skunk
boy.
David Ohle, who
is an old friend of mine introduced me to William, also
through David I
met Ken Kesey. The university of Kansas has been a
vehicle me to see and hear, Bon fire of the vanity
guy, buck minster
fuller, etc.
i associate beat
literature with freedoms, of language, expression,
humor, fishing,
orange juice, art, sex, food, books, books and books.
William was a
reader. It was something we really had in common.
patricia
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
WSB's oeuvre
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34F33B6E.3334@iclub.org>
References:
<199802250044.SAA17024@core0.mx.execpc.com>
Jeffrey Scott
Holland says:
>All WSB
bibliographies I've seen on the web are incomplete. I'm trying
>to compile a
list of all books by WSB (not counting interview books like
>"The
Job", RE/Search, or Bockris)...[snipped]...
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland - KY
buon giorno
amici,
if this is of
interest there's the italian translation
of RE/SEARCH by
William S. Burroughs Brion Gysin
ShaKe EDIZIONI
UNDERGROUND
(c) Re/Search Publication
(c) 1992 ShaKe
edizioni underground
ISBN
88-86926-22-7
MILANO, ITALIA.
per ordini
diretti e informazioni
postal: ShaKe,
via C. Balbo 10, 20136 Milano, Italia.
voice :
02/583117306
Decoder Bbs,
02/29527597 N-8-1 300-14000 bd
2pm - 8 pm mon-sun
Lunga vita alla
Stampa Underground e al suo Network Globale!
http://www4.iol.it/decoder
hope this help.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
--------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:35:05 -0500
Reply-To: "henkel@wmich.edu"
<henkel@wmich.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>
Organization:
OVPR
Subject: Re: a question posed
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I didn't get
a lot of the humor until I heard him read.
Do any of you out
there have good stories of readings that you've attended
or heard about?
I'd be interested in reading these. I hear that Ginsberg
was spectacular
live. I bet that many others also have (had) good stage
presence (MC
among them).
Scott
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:46:39 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Wed, 25
Feb 1998 19:29:48...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:29:48 +0100 with subject "Re: WSB's
oeuvre" has
been successfully distributed
to the BEAT-L
list (253
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:01:27 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
minor characters
is still in print. i just got a copy for
about eight
dollars. good book.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:44:31 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff <jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: rare wsb books (-> electronic
revolution)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hello,
i followed the
postings about "rare wsb books" and found out that one
edition of
"electronic revolution" wasn't mentioned.
about 3 years
ago, i found it by chance in a used-books-store here in
munich, germany.
i bought one of 5 copies and when i came back the next
day, set on fire
by the cut up method , all remaining copies were sold.
:(
william s.
burroughs: electronic revolution (english/german),expanded
media edition,
5th printing 1991, bonn (germany), softcover, 2 b/w
photos, ca. 140
pages
the address of
expanded media edition is:
expanded media
edition
p. o. box 190 136
5300 bonn 1
germany
unfortunately i
only know the old german postal code which expired abt.
7 years ago, but
i think the letters will still come through...
they also have a
vast sortiment of wsb- and beat-related
books/films/videos/whatever-you-can-think-of
in store, for example a
bi-lingual edition
of "naked scientology" (wsb fighting scientology thru
newspaper
articles etc...) or the video "the life and times of allen
ginsberg".
even when you live in the united states and therefore nearer
to the beat
circle and sources of information, it's definitely worth a
postcard to ask
for their free catalogue.
you can also do a
web search to see whether "expanded media edition" has
a homepage &
online order options, but i doubt it.
looking at the
numerous postings on this topic, i hope this posting
hasn't been
totally useless. :)
greetings,
jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:39:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 714
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What's the name
of the Mexican wrestler?
Is it...EL
MALIGNO???
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
wheat.mnsfld.edu: [157.62.11.42] didn't use HELO
protocol
X-Sender:
sinkovia@wheat.mnsfld.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:43:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aaron Sinkovich
<sinkovia@MNSFLD.EDU>
Subject: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm doing an
analysis of Ginsberg's "America" for a college class. I need
to dissect the
whole poem line by line, and I've run into some road blocks.
Most of the
references I was able to define, but I'd appreciate any help
with the following items:
1. Who is
"Uncle Max"?
2. "America
when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings..."
What were the
Communist Cell meetings. Who is Scott
Nearing, Mother Bloor,
and Israel
Amter. What does mensch mean? Also, I'm using the City Lights
edition Howl and
Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The Portable
Beat Reader,
there was a change in the text in this line.
After Mother
Bloor, it reads
"the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche".
Any comments in the
dicrepancies
between texts?
3. Who were the Spanish Loyalists? What are the related to?
Thanks. --Aaron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron F.
Sinkovich
sinkovia@mnsfld.edu
http://mustuweb.mnsfld.edu/users/sinkovia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
wheat.mnsfld.edu: [157.62.11.42] didn't use HELO
protocol
X-Sender:
sinkovia@wheat.mnsfld.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:58:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aaron Sinkovich
<sinkovia@MNSFLD.EDU>
Subject: Re: a question posed
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Hi,
>I'm new on
the list --
>Jeffrey Scott
Holland and PC, thank you for getting me laughing out loud with
>your last
evening's beat comedy/poetry/sensibility ---
>I got to thinking
about the people who were moved to join this list. I'm
>wondering
what draws people to beatness/beat writings/beat generation lives.
>For anyone
who would like to comment -- I would be
interested to know when
>you first
identified with and were moved by Kerouac/Ginsberg/the beat
>concept/etc.
-- and how has it played out in your life past or present?
>--Sharon
>
I first heard
about Allen Ginsberg and the Beats in a newspaper article
while in high
school. I liked some of the issues that
the article discussed
and as an
aspiring poet and writer it seemed like something worth
investigating. I soon read On the Road and began my journey
into beat
literature. In college, I took a course junior year on
The Beat Generation
and really began
to appreciate the Beats. I ever since then I've been
interested. The attitudes, ideas, and personalities is
what draws me to
them. Kerouac's use of language is another reason I
keep reading them. I'm
also interested
in existentialism and see many elements of that philosophy
in the
Beats. --Aaron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron F.
Sinkovich
sinkovia@mnsfld.edu
http://mustuweb.mnsfld.edu/users/sinkovia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:38:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:55 PM
2/25/98 +1100, you wrote:
>winner
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
>
>
Can you explain the
significance of the previous "message"? Is it just
mindless
vituperation directed at somebody in particular, or are you just
trying to show us
you know how to type one word over and over ad nauseam?
Jeez!
J. Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:38:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-25 15:48:41 EST, Aaron F. Sinkovich write:
<< 1. Who
is "Uncle Max"?
2. "America when I was seven momma took
me to Communist Cell meetings..."
What were the Communist Cell meetings. >>
[had a dream
about:]
MAX FROHMAN
-of uncle Max who
was a large frail man
I loved, who had
a Canadian mustache,
and thru my
boyhood slept in bed till noon
So that I never
knocked at his door early
lest his heart be
disturbed- of his cozy
childless house,
and his phonographic machine
where I first
heard Bellini & Saint Saens
Introduction
& Rondo Capricioso, those
delicate first
violin strings' notes few-
prophesy and sad
breath. And Elanor who
had died, and my
few visits to Max
thereafter,
childhood over & my wanderings
begun. And Max
stayed where he was,
in the same
apartment, drinking coffee
in the noon hour
for his breakfast & made
his accounts,
went to his office on Subway,
-Last I saw him I
visited & read him
poems on the
death of Elanor- like
a longhaired
vulture, over the table in
his kitched we
wept.
>From the Indian Journals.
Hope this helped.
Also- I think AG's father was a communist, a big one too,
right?
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:15:20 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Sneaker Sutra
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dharma bum, Dan
Barth, http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/dan.html
sent me the
following text on Feb. 24, 1998. I am
posting it here
with his permission. -- gss
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On First Looking Into Ginsberg's
Sneakers
by Daniel Barth
I had three days
off for Chinese New Year (didn't you?)
and
decided to drive
down to Stanford University (much have I
travelled in the
Golden State) and check out the Allen Ginsberg
Papers in Special
Collections at Green Library. You may recall
hearing a few
years ago about Stanford's purchase of Ginsberg's
extensive
archive, for a reported 1 million dollars. No one I
have talked to,
including Mr. Ginsberg (he was still alive at
the time-no, I am
not channeling his spirit-at least I don't
think I am-though
I have been having these sunflower visions
lately-ah, well),
has been willing to verify that figure. Allen
told me that
after taking into account storage fees-the papers
had been "on
deposit" at Columbia University-and secretaries'
salaries and
other incidentals he hardly made anything. But in
the next breath
he told me he would not be teaching at Brooklyn
College that
semester, would instead be traveling.
Million or no
million, the collection is now safely housed at
Stanford. It has been
fully catalogued and boxed and enveloped
in the latest
state-of-the-art big bucks major university special
collections
fashion-nice, nice, very nice-and is available for
research by
students, scholars and other interested individuals.
The arrangement
is thus:
Guide to the
Allen Ginsberg Papers, 1937-1994
Container List
Series 1: Correspondence, 1942-1994
Series 2. Notebooks and journals
Series 3. Manuscripts
Series 4. Business Records
Series 5. Financial Records
Series 6. Committee on Poetry Records
Series 7. Teaching Materials
Series 8. Political files
Series 9. Religious materials
Series 10. Photographs
Series 11. Audiovisual recordings
Series 12. Computer files
Series 13. Periodicals
Series 14. Clipping files
Series 15. Memorabilia
Series 16. Posters
Series 17. Printed ephemera
Series 18. Artwork
Series 19. Music
Within each of
these categories there are many boxes, and in most
boxes at least a
few folders. The content of the Audiovisual file,
for instance,
reads like this:
Series 11.
Audiovisual recordings
Subseries a. Audiocassettes
Subseries b. Reel-to-reel tapes ; 7 in.
Subseries c. Reel-to-reel tapes ; 11 in.
Subseries d. Blake reel-to-reel tapes ; 7 in.
Subseries e. Blake reel-to-reel tapes ; 11 in.
Subseries f. Master reel-to-reel tapes
Subseries g. Sound discs ; 7 in.
Subseries h. Sound discs ; 12 in.
Subseries i. Compact discs
Subseries j. Videocassettes ; 1/2 in.
Subseries k. Videocassettes ; 3/4 in.
Subseries l. Videotape ; 16 mm.
Subseries m. Motion films
Subseries n. Laser discs
Subseries o. Miscellaneous
Subseries p. Use copies
The people at
Stanford's Green Library are friendly and helpful.
The procedure is
to check in on the first floor, receive a pass,
then register
again at Special Collections on the third floor.
Due to earthquake
damage from the major 1989 quake (that's the
Loma Prieta
quake, the one that interrupted the World Series, 7.1
on the Richter,
for those of you keeping score) most of the
special
collection materials are housed elsewhere on campus. A
paging system is
in effect whereby materials requested are
delivered by
campus courier twice a day. I had been made aware
of this ahead of
time and had several boxes waiting for me when
I arrived.
I first looked
into some of Ginsberg's most recent correspondence,
including
"letters, postcards, and other items sent to Ginsberg
by fans."
Yes, that letter and those poems that you sent him are
here. As other
chroniclers and biographers have reported, he saved
everything.
"Allen . . . was interested in posterity," wrote Jane
Kramer in Allen
Ginsberg in America, "and seemed, sometimes, to be
collecting his
life instead of living it."
These letters
came from all over, places like Morgantown, West
Virginia; Santa
Monica, California; Grandview, Iowa; Tamarac,
Florida;
Middletown, Delaware; Seeheim-Jugenheim, Denmark; Cosby,
Indiana;
Manhattan, Kansas; Hiddenhausen, West Germany; Tourcoing,
France; Dorion,
Quebec; Marlin, Texas. The letters begin : "Dear
Allen, I am a
poet. These are some of my poems. I wanted you to
have them &
read them."; "Dear Mr. Ginsberg, I am sixteen years
old, I attend a
high school that is out in the middle of nowhere.";
"Dearest
Allen, Greetings my beloved poet."; "Mr. Ginsberg, I am
21 years old and
almost without hope."; "Dear Mr. Ginsberg, If you
are reading this
miracles are possible!"; "My dear friend Allen,
You are so close
to me that I think it's more than high time I
write to you, considering,
after all, that you have changed my
life.";
"Dear Allen, I've been meaning to contact you for years
and am just now
getting my act together."
Often these
letters had (and have) one or more poems by the
sender included,
sometimes entire, long, unsolicited manuscripts.
Publishers would
also send Allen complete manuscripts in type-
script, hoping
for a jacket blurb. He had to have been touched,
and also
overwhelmed, by the nature and volume of correspondence
he received. Up
until about 1990 he tried to answer each letter
personally. At
that point, suffering from heart problems, he
composed a form
letter and used it for most replies.
I couldn't resist
having a look at the memorabilia files. Here's
part of that
list:
Box Folder
Contents
4
1 Acapulco Gold cannabis
papers
4
2 American Book award plaque
1990
4
3 Beard clippings
4
4 Book case key
4
5 Brooch
4
6 Catholic religious
paraphenalia
4
7 Dust jacket. Japanese.
4
8 Merchant Marine
Identification cards (2)
4
9 Naropa bumper sticker
4
10 National Register of
Prominent Americans certificate
4
11 Paper angels
4
12 Pocket knife
4
13 Postcards
4
14 Republican National
Committee membership card
4
15 Ribbon
4
16 Van Gogh's ear [rubber
toy]
4
17 100% Pure Urine. Publicity
pack for Steal this
book / by Abbie Hoffman
4
18 Florins 1660 [i.e. 960]
4
19 Ratnas
5
Autographed baseball, Candlestick Park 1994 June 1
5
Bottle with message inside
5
For Allan [sic] Ginsberg. Wooden sculpture of
man's head
5
Tea container
5
Tennis shoes
5
Wallace Stevens Fellowship award 1987 Apr. 9
6
Curare. -- 1 jar.
6
Yage. -- 3 sticks.
I think there is
a kind of cosmic comedy at work here, very much
intentional on
Allen's part. It's an archival
demonstration of
what he called
"the undifferentiated consciousness which notices
everything at
once and doesn't discriminate between what's more
important and
what's less." [Kramer, AG in America,
p. 137]
Yes, the beard
clippings are here-one baggie and three envelopes
of same. (Look
for my paper, "The Beard of the Bard Deconstructed"
in a forthcoming
issue of Postmodern Grooming.) And the famous
tennis shoes?
They are here, in a manila "Adventures in Poetry"
envelope,
dilapidated looking Russian-made shoes that Ginsberg
was wearing when
he was expelled from Czechoslovakia in 1965
shortly after
being crowned King of the May. The explanation in
the file is that
he saved them to show the shoddy nature of
Soviet
workmanship. Well, there may have been sentimental reasons
too. And what's
this? I can just barely make it out-looks like
some kind of
vestigial swoosh mark on the side, with hammer and
sickle rampant.
The curare is
here, in what looks like a cold cream jar, and the
yage, three
gnarly roots, about six inches long by one and a half
inches wide. It
doesn't have much smell but . . . did you get
that telepathic
message I sent you? I tellya this stuff makes
e-mail look like
the Mexican postal service.
I was interested
in the courses Allen taught at Brooklyn College
and so had a look
at a couple of the boxes of teaching materials.
The materials I
perused included his course descriptions, out-
lines, notes, reading
lists, student papers and poems for courses
titled "20th
Century Expansive Verse," "Literary History of the
Beat
Generation," and "Living Poetry." As ever, Allen was very
thorough. It's a
learning experience just to look through these
files. His bibliographies
supply excellent suggestions for further
reading. There
are also audio and video tapes of many of Allen's
Brooklyn College
classes, certainly a valuable resource.
I concluded my
Ginsberg researches at Stanford by looking at some
of his notebooks
and journals from the mid-'50s, and at the most
recent box
(1990s) of printed ephemera. The ephemera file has all
kinds of things:
restaurant checks, movie festival programs, lists
of poetry award
winners, invitations to press conferences, a Paris
Metro map,
academic conference agendas, broadsides, pamphlets,
theatre tickets,
college catalogs, advertisements, bookmarks,
postcards, et
cetera. This file documents Allen's international
travels and
reputation, his awards and honors. It's like getting
to look through
all the boxes in old Uncle Allen's
attic. It's
pretty amazing.
He had quite a life in poetry.
In all I spent
about eight hours in the Special Collections
reading room at
Green Library. Obviously I only began to scratch
the surface. But
I saw enough to be able to recommend a trip to
Stanford for
anyone with a serious (or seriously playful) interest
in Allen Ginsberg
and Beat literature.
The sneakers are
there
And so's the
beard hair.
Don't eat the
yage,
You'll still leave
agog, eh?
Ainsi soit il.
(Thus it is.)
Silent, upon a
high spot in Northern California,
Daniel Barth
Sincere thanks to
William McPheron, Polly Armstrong, Arel Lucas,
Peter Whidden,
Sara Timby and Carol Peterson of the Department of
Special
Collections, Stanford University Libraries. Information
about the
Ginsberg Papers at Stanford is available on the world
wide web at:
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:28008/ead/stanford/M0733/
or
http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/spc/spc.html
For further
information
contact: Department of Special Collections, Green
Library, 557
Escondido Mall, Stanford, CA 94305. Unless otherwise
indicated,
citations above are from: Allen Ginsberg Papers, M0733,
Department of
Special Collections, Stanford University Libraries,
Stanford,
California.
DB
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:45:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nico 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CIA Report on Bay of Pigs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-25 01:58:49 EST, you write:
> I read the
piece in Barnes asnd Ignoble. Did you
rewrite this
> whole article?
>
> Miike rice
no, no, took it
from the Times website...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:56:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nico 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-25 15:48:41 EST, you write:
> 3. Who were the Spanish Loyalists? What are the related to?
>
In the Spanish
Civil War, these were the republicans, --- those who were
fighting the
facists to maintain the democracy that had just been won.
(in case you
didnt know, Franco defeated the republican army and led Spain
thru another 4
decades of facist dictatorship.)
by the way, Naomi Ginsberg had ties to the communist
party that went way
back. i'm not entirely sure of Louis' politics.
--Ginny
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:25:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sundee Bumgarner
<Surubu1@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: 2/25/98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
You are in my thoughts, Marie.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:04:25 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Spanish Civil War
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In a message
dated 98-02-25 15:48:41 EST, you write:
>
>> 3. Who were the Spanish Loyalists? What are the related to?
>>
>
>In the
Spanish Civil War, these were the republicans, --- those who were
>fighting the
facists to maintain the democracy that had just been won.
>(in case you
didnt know, Franco defeated the republican army and led Spain
>thru another
4 decades of facist dictatorship.)
>
>by the
way, Naomi Ginsberg had ties to the
communist party that went way
>back. i'm not entirely sure of Louis' politics.
>--Ginny
Thought I should
inform the person who asked about the Spanish Loyalists
that a close
friend and neighbor, Clarence Kailin, fought with the Lincoln
Brigade and wrote
a book about his best friend John Cookson who was one of
the Brigade
members who died in Spain.
Clarence isn't
on-line,but if you have questions you wold like me to give
him, I'm sure he
would respond.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:46:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Death of a hipster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Paul Buckberry
wrote:
> "I
don't have any regrets...they can talk about me plenty when I'm
> gone!"
Oh yeah! Well I guess you can say that if you just won
three grammies
and got to sing
with Soy Body or whatever it said on that dude.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[149.151.190.53]
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:04:12 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Death of a hipster
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it said "Soy
Bomb", i think. what the hell does
that mean anyway?
>Paul
Buckberry wrote:
>
>> "I
don't have any regrets...they can talk about me plenty when I'm
>>
gone!"
>
>Oh yeah! Well I guess you can say that if you just won
three grammies
>and got to
sing with Soy Body or whatever it said on that dude.
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:10:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dennis Cardwell
<DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Selby
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> In a message dated 2/25/98 6:05:20 AM
Pacific Standard Time,
> jholland@ICLUB.ORG writes:
>
> << Just pretend I'm trying to be
Hubert
>
Selby,Jr. >>
> Now there is a name I would like to see
mentioned more often on this list!
> This is only the second time since
October when I subscribed that Selby's
name
> has appeared. He's a true genius. No one has captured the language of the
> street or the screams and groans that
occur in one's mind as well as he.
> Dennis >>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:28:51 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: marie countryman
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
marie asked me to
post to the list that she's knocked out her keyboard.
apparently, she
can receive messages, but is unable to reply or initiate
any. for those who don't know - her father died
today. i will be in touch
with her by phone
- so if anyone wants me to relay any messages to her -
please
backchannel me (i get the list in digest now, so it's better to get
your messages
personally).
ciao, sherri
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:43:27 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: The significance of crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >winner
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
> >
[...]
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
> >
>
>loserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloserloser
> >
> >
>
> Can you
explain the significance of the previous "message"? Is it just
> mindless
vituperation directed at somebody in particular, or are you just
> trying to
show us you know how to type one word over and over ad nauseam?
>
> Jeez!
>
>
J. Perchuk
it reminds me of
one of ernst jandls poems. jandl is a contemporary
austrian
poet whose work
has very much in common with dadaistic poetry and
"concrete
poetry".
jandl
concentrates on spoken word performances wherein the words lose
their
meaning and only
the sound of the words survive. :)
jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:43:39 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> In the
Spanish Civil War, these were the republicans, --- those who were
> fighting the
facists to maintain the democracy that had just been won.
> (in case you
didnt know, Franco defeated the republican army and led Spain
> thru another
4 decades of facist dictatorship.)
>
> by the
way, Naomi Ginsberg had ties to the
communist party that went way
> back. i'm not entirely sure of Louis' politics.
> --Ginny
as far as i know,
louis was a leftist, too, but not as radical as naomi.
because of this
fact, they often had arguments about politics. different
views on politics
were also among the reasons, why louis parents were
against their
marriage.
to learn more
about the political climate in the ginsberg family, i'd
suggest you
should read "aunt rose", another poem by allen ginsberg that
contains some
more references to the spanish loyalists. as far as i
know, it's been
published along with "kaddish". you sure will find it in
ginsbergs
"collected poems".
- jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:43:45 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> 2.
"America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell
meetings..."
> What were
the Communist Cell meetings. Who is
Scott Nearing, Mother Bloor,
> and Israel
Amter. What does mensch mean? Also, I'm using the City Lights
> edition Howl
and Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The Portable
> Beat Reader,
there was a change in the text in this line.
After Mother
> Bloor, it
reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in the
> dicrepancies
between texts?
"Mensch"
is German for "human being", but I dont know the meaning of
this word in
here. Maybe Ginsberg used this word as an emphasis for what
a great man Scott
Nearing was.
And "ewig
weiblich", also a German expression, means something like
"eternally
female".
- Jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:44:13 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> minor
characters is still in print. i just got
a copy for about eight
>
dollars. good book.
it's an excellent
book. i just read the new german translation entitled
"warten auf
kerouac"(waiting for kerouac). unlike other clumsy
translations, i
think this translation of the title elucidates the real
message of this
book. i think johnson really is one of the "major
characters"
of the beat scene.
jens from germany
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MR-Received: by
mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:28:50 -0500
Alternate-recipient:
prohibited
Posting-date:
Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:28:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance:
normal
Priority: normal
UA-content-id:
E927ZXGPC3OP1
X400-MTS-identifier:
[;05828062208991/2251367@FIRNVX]
A1-type: MAIL
Hop-count: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:28:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "James F. Wood 253-7886"
<WOODJ@MAIL.FIRN.EDU>
Subject: Marie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
WOW Marie, so
sorry , love and peace to you!
Jim
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:33:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Mensch is a
common Jewish saying for someone who is a good guy, a real
mensch...AG was a
real mensch
On Thu, 26 Feb
1998, Jens Moellenhoff wrote:
> > 2.
"America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell
meetings..."
> > What
were the Communist Cell meetings. Who is
Scott Nearing, Mother Bloor,
> > and
Israel Amter. What does mensch
mean? Also, I'm using the City Lights
> > edition
Howl and Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The Portable
> > Beat
Reader, there was a change in the text in this line. After Mother
> > Bloor,
it reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in the
> >
dicrepancies between texts?
>
>
"Mensch" is German for "human being", but I dont know the
meaning of
> this word in
here. Maybe Ginsberg used this word as an emphasis for what
> a great man
Scott Nearing was.
>
> And
"ewig weiblich", also a German expression, means something like
>
"eternally female".
>
> - Jens
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:45:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"Minor
Characters" has a chapter or two about the author's life with
Kerouac. The
book, though, is her autobiography and describes how a girl
from a "nice
middle class family" connected with and became part of the
beat-bohemian-Village
scene in the fifties. It's a great book, done with
much objectivity,
sensitivity and honesty. Without the frenzy of a lot
of the better
known beat authors. Joyce is still very much around,
teaching, I
think at Columbia.
I also recommend
"Nothing to Declare" by Holmes. The book is a
collection of
character sketches of the known and unknown members of the
early beat scene
in New York. His sketch about Kerouac is great.
There a lot of
books about the "scene" written by participants who
either didn't
make the Times Book Review or who made it in other areas.
Any body got some
titles to share?
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:41:30 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Marie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thank you jim,
and i wish the same for you. it looks like i have one
more father pome
to write.
marie
James F. Wood
253-7886 wrote:
> WOW Marie,
so sorry , love and peace to you!
> Jim
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:49:04 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: thank you all so much
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
the first thing i
did this morining - this very looong morning as i could not
sleep last night,
was to rush out and replace my key board i felt so loved and
cared for. as
most of you know, my writings are raw autobiography somehow
fused into poetic
form via pain, mostly. the father series of poems is the
most deeply i
have ever delved into myself. i know that this is not a poetry
list, but i can't
help myself - i know how often writings were exchanged and
opinions welcomed
by the writers we all love and write about, and i guess i
follow in their
path. you all have been so patient and generous with my
endless revisions,
and some of you wrote backchannel to me re: editing which
was so helpful/
any way, what i
wanted to say is that i was always the 'black sheep' of my
family,
and you all have
soothed the wounds of being on the outside again of an
important family milestone.
the last pome of
the father cycle will be written after the memorial and
burial - his
ashes are being shipped from florida so he may lay side by side
with my mother.
thank you all so
very very much.
and to all who
have said, tell me what i can do, i reply, you already have:
bless you all
marie
sherri wrote:
> marie asked
me to post to the list that she's knocked out her keyboard.
> apparently,
she can receive messages, but is unable to reply or initiate
> any. for those who don't know - her father died
today. i will be in touch
> with her by
phone - so if anyone wants me to relay any messages to her -
> please
backchannel me (i get the list in digest now, so it's better to get
> your
messages personally).
>
> ciao, sherri
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:51:15 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To be a mentsch a
person has to be more than good. Mentschen
are people who
also know how to,
and DO take practical care of themselves and others. To
qualify as a
mentsch a person has to be mature as well as good. BTW the e
is pronounced
like the e in "help", not like an e in "we". BTW "moensh" is
the german word
for human, used often like person in english. The yiddish
pronounciation is
"mentsch".
leon
nal Message-----
From: Nancy B
Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thursday,
February 26, 1998 5:33 AM
Subject: Re:
Questions on Ginsberg's "America"
>Mensch is a
common Jewish saying for someone who is a good guy, a real
>mensch...AG
was a real mensch
>On Thu, 26
Feb 1998, Jens Moellenhoff wrote:
>
>> > 2.
"America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell
meetings..."
>> >
What were the Communist Cell meetings.
Who is Scott Nearing, Mother
Bloor,
>> > and
Israel Amter. What does mensch
mean? Also, I'm using the City
Lights
>> >
edition Howl and Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The
Portable
>> >
Beat Reader, there was a change in the text in this line. After Mother
>> >
Bloor, it reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in
the
>> >
dicrepancies between texts?
>>
>>
"Mensch" is German for "human being", but I dont know the
meaning of
>> this
word in here. Maybe Ginsberg used this word as an emphasis for what
>> a great
man Scott Nearing was.
>>
>> And
"ewig weiblich", also a German expression, means something like
>>
"eternally female".
>>
>> - Jens
>>
>
>********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>world.--Archimedes*********
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:13:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Tibetian New Year
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone know
how the Tibetan's celebrate the new year?
Happy LOSAR eve
(Tibetan New Year),
Xe
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:37:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Sneaker Sutra
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Daniel, thanks
for this wonderful post. This is the
type of communication that
Beat-l was intended for.5
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:53:59 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A bit more on mentschen and gender:
On further
thought it occurs to me that person is a bit more gender neutral
than is moensh or
mentsch. "weibliche" in german refers to "wifeish" in
English more than
"womanly". Brings to mind the difficulties words have
reflecting the
maturing (changing) attitudes about gender equality. Like we
are hearing
already some rumblings about the prefixes in wo-men or fe-males.
"Feh"
for example is an expression that describes disapproval, if not
disgust both in
German as well as in Yiddish.
Ineterstingly
both mentsh and moensh refer to either gender, but the words
also tell about
which gender is used to getting the respect.
"Yah Moensh!"
is often used the
way "hey man!" is used in English, addressing both males
and females. Language that betrays subtly historical
inequalities in
respect to women
and men. It takes much time for maturing
attitudes to be
reflected in
commonly used words. Takes a long time for
meanings in
anachronistic
words become hollow, than embarrassing reminders, than
hopefully funny
sounding, before they are discarded.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From: Nancy B
Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thursday,
February 26, 1998 5:33 AM
Subject: Re:
Questions on Ginsberg's "America"
>Mensch is a
common Jewish saying for someone who is a good guy, a real
>mensch...AG
was a real mensch
>On Thu, 26
Feb 1998, Jens Moellenhoff wrote:
>
>> >
Bloor, it reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in
the
>> >
dicrepancies between texts?
>>
>>
"Mensch" is German for "human being", but I dont know the
meaning of
>> this
word in here. Maybe Ginsberg used this word as an emphasis for what
>> a great
man Scott Nearing was.
>>
>> And
"ewig weiblich", also a German expression, means something like
>>
"eternally female".
>>
>> - Jens
>>
>
>********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>world.--Archimedes*********
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:20:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Questions on Ginsberg's "America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Basically, mensch
means a good-natured, all around good guy...
On Thu, 26 Feb
1998, Leon Tabory wrote:
> To be a
mentsch a person has to be more than good.
Mentschen are people who
> also know
how to, and DO take practical care of themselves and others. To
> qualify as a
mentsch a person has to be mature as well as good. BTW the e
> is
pronounced like the e in "help", not like an e in "we".
BTW "moensh" is
> the german
word for human, used often like person in english. The yiddish
>
pronounciation is "mentsch".
>
> leon
>
>
> nal
Message-----
> From: Nancy
B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
> Date:
Thursday, February 26, 1998 5:33 AM
> Subject: Re:
Questions on Ginsberg's "America"
>
>
> >Mensch
is a common Jewish saying for someone who is a good guy, a real
>
>mensch...AG was a real mensch
> >On Thu,
26 Feb 1998, Jens Moellenhoff wrote:
> >
> >>
> 2. "America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell
>
meetings..."
> >>
> What were the Communist Cell meetings.
Who is Scott Nearing, Mother
> Bloor,
> >>
> and Israel Amter. What does mensch
mean? Also, I'm using the City
> Lights
> >> >
edition Howl and Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The
> Portable
> >>
> Beat Reader, there was a change in the text in this line. After Mother
> >>
> Bloor, it reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in
> the
> >>
> dicrepancies between texts?
> >>
> >>
"Mensch" is German for "human being", but I dont know the
meaning of
> >>
this word in here. Maybe Ginsberg used this word as an emphasis for what
> >> a
great man Scott Nearing was.
> >>
> >> And
"ewig weiblich", also a German expression, means something like
> >>
"eternally female".
> >>
> >> -
Jens
> >>
> >
>
>********Had we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>
>world.--Archimedes*********
> >
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: in
italia non abbiamo avuto kerouac, ginsberg e gli hipsters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: <34F33B6E.3334@iclub.org>
References:
<199802250044.SAA17024@core0.mx.execpc.com>
cari amici,
"Mondo
Beat" 12 november 1966 first italian beat magazine.
the magazine was
harbored by the anarchist headq "Sacco e Vanzetti"
in Milan. the
ciclostyled number zero of the magazine was supported by
Giuseppe Pinelli,
the anarchist who died on december 1969
honored by the
play "Accidental death of an anarchist" written and
performed by the
1998 nobel literature prize, the playwriter Dario Fo.
its' clear that
leftism has something to do with the beats in his
way. those
italian beats dont' recognized jack kerouac as a guru,
so the
"european-beat-show" (1966) of JK was described as a man who
speak. Buon,
vecchio Kerouac, ti ricordi di Gesu'?
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:42:46 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 26
Feb 1998 19:34:05...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:34:05 +0100 with subject "in italia
non abbiamo avuto
kerouac, ginsberg e gli hipsters"
has been successfully
distributed to
the BEAT-L list (249 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:09:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rodney Lee Phillips
<philli31@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aaron--
To answer part of
your question: Scott Nearing was an early "back to the land"
advocate who
wrote a book in the 1950s (along with his wife Helen) entitled
_Living the Good
Life_. The book detailed their life of
subsistance farming
in Vermont (?)
removed from all ties with the american cash economy. Nearing
had been a member
of the american Communist party, but later left--or was
forced out
of--the party over a difference of opinion with party leadership.
Your question
reminded me of one which has plagued me for years about the poem
"America." Ginsberg's line--something like--"you have
no idea how good the
party was in
1835." At first, i believed this to
be a mere slip or
typo--inserting
1835 for the correct date, 1935. But
this supposed slip was
never corrected
in any of the poem's textual versions.
And when I heard
Ginsberg read the
poem publicly in 1992, he read it as it is in the text:
1835. Anybody on the list have any thoughts on
this?
Rod Phillips
James Madison
College, MSU>
> I'm doing an
analysis of Ginsberg's "America" for a college class. I need
> to dissect
the whole poem line by line, and I've run into some road blocks.
> Most of the
references I was able to define, but I'd appreciate any help
> with the
following items:
>
> 1. Who is
"Uncle Max"?
> 2.
"America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell
meetings..."
> What were
the Communist Cell meetings. Who is
Scott Nearing, Mother Bloor,
> and Israel
Amter. What does mensch mean? Also, I'm using the City Lights
> edition Howl
and Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The Portable
> Beat Reader,
there was a change in the text in this line.
After Mother
> Bloor, it
reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in the
> dicrepancies
between texts?
> 3. Who were the Spanish Loyalists? What are the related to?
>
> Thanks.
--Aaron
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Aaron F.
Sinkovich
>
sinkovia@mnsfld.edu
>
http://mustuweb.mnsfld.edu/users/sinkovia
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:32:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ANDREW CHRISTENSEN
<achristensen@WEBER.EDU>
Subject: List Guidelines, or the lack thereof
-Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
as the list
owner, you may be able to put another
matter to rest.
How do I get off
the list?
I have tried
several times . . . . Four times.
I tried both
"list" addresses. It hasn't
worked.
Please help.
thanks.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:46:08 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> To be a
mentsch a person has to be more than good.
Mentschen are people who
> also know
how to, and DO take practical care of themselves and others. To
> qualify as a
mentsch a person has to be mature as well as good. BTW the e
> is
pronounced like the e in "help", not like an e in "we".
BTW "moensh" is
> the german
word for human, used often like person in english. The yiddish
>
pronounciation is "mentsch".
>
> leon
sorry, but the
german word for "human" or "person" is spelled
"mensch".
i should know
this because i am german. :)
- jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:46:34 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hemenway . Mark
schrieb:
> "Minor
Characters" has a chapter or two about the author's life with
> Kerouac. The
book, though, is her autobiography and describes how a girl
> from a
"nice middle class family" connected with and became part of the
>
beat-bohemian-Village scene in the fifties. It's a great book, done with
> much
objectivity, sensitivity and honesty. Without the frenzy of a lot
> of the
better known beat authors. Joyce is still very much around,
> teaching, I
think at Columbia.
but don't you
think that johnson's friendship with kerouac was essential
for how her
entire life developed? it's not as unimportant as you might
think, or as
anyone might think when reading your statement "[the book]
has a chapter or
two about the author's life with kerouac". the
"kerouac"
theme goes through almost the entire book.
- Jens
p.s. are we
talking about the same book? :)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:29:52 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions on Nearing, the CP and
Bloor
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Aaron--
> Nearing had
been a member of the american Communist party, but later
>left--or was
>forced out
of--the party over a difference of opinion with party leadership.
>
>Ginsberg's
line--something like--"you have no idea how good the
>party was in
1835." At first, i believed this to
be a mere slip or
>typo--inserting
1835 for the correct date, 1935. But
this supposed slip was
>never
corrected in any of the poem's textual versions. And when I heard
>Ginsberg read
the poem publicly in 1992, he read it as it is in the text:
>1835. Anybody on the list have any thoughts on
this?
>
>Rod Phillips
>James Madison
College, MSU>
>> I'm
doing an analysis of Ginsberg's "America" for a college class. I need
>> to
dissect the whole poem line by line, and I've run into some road blocks.
>> Most of
the references I was able to define, but I'd appreciate any help
>> with the
following items:
>>
>> 1. Who
is "Uncle Max"?
>> 2.
"America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell
meetings..."
>> What
were the Communist Cell meetings. Who is
Scott Nearing, Mother Bloor,
>> and
Israel Amter. What does mensch
mean? Also, I'm using the City Lights
>> edition
Howl and Other Poems, but when I looked at "America" in The Portable
>> Beat
Reader, there was a change in the text in this line. After Mother
>> Bloor,
it reads "the Silk-striker' Ewig- Weibliche". Any comments in the
>>
dicrepancies between texts?
>> 3. Who were the Spanish Loyalists? What are the related to?
>>
>> Thanks.
--Aaron
Aaron and Rod,
Not positive,
there were a few times that members bolded from the CP, but
Scott Nearing
might have broken with them in 1991. The CP convention was
held in Cleveland
(12-05-91) that year and there was a serious break when
about 1000
members, critical of the undemocratic actions that were taking
place, quite and
formed the Committees of Correspondence.
Regarding the
date in "America" of 1835 he couldn't have been referring to
the Communist
Party because that predates the Manifesto and the revolutions
significantly.
It's probably a typo, even though you heard AG use the date
in a reading.
Actually1935 was a high point for the CP in the US which
indicates a
typo--and keem mind and all it's difficult to keep in all up
front.
Mother Bloor was
a Chicago Socialist and close friend of Upton Sinclair.
She worked in the
Chicago meat packing plants and fed material to Sinclair
when he was
writing "The Jungle." Sinclair, Bloor, and Meridel LeSueur were
friends. I think
Isreal Amter might have been part of that circle. That
"circle"
included (and I've grabbed part of a paragraph from an article
about LeSueur -
http://www.bookzen.com/books/0000066a1.html - that Chuck
Miller wrote to
give you a sense of the times and who they were interacting
with:
"... We
talked all the while of the writers she had known over the
years--Jack
Conroy, Richard Wright, Emma Goldman, Algren, Zona Gale,
Drieser, Kenneth
Fearing, Mari Sandoz, Alexander Berkman...Boris Israel,
and more that I
did not know.* For me it was like a feast of finding out
something more
than the official version...Algren managing to break with
nearly all his
old friends, turning on them somehow...Conroys boozing and
womanizing...Drieser
chasing Meridel around a
table in New York
trying to get at her, calling her the [Iowa] Corn virgin
. . . Emma
Goldmans wondering why LeSueur didn't want to make it with such
a famous writer
as Dreiser, although meanwhile Meridel thinking that
Goldman seemed
like the only woman she knew who had control over her sex
and love life, a
notion perhaps dispelled in later years by Goldmans own
diary...Mari
Sandoz being a
good leftist...Berkman treating her with respect and almost
like an adult
when she was thirteen years old...Kenneth Fearing coming to a
bad end with
drink...when they had his wake in New York the funeral parlor
had two rooms set
up for him, one for his blue-blood family from Oak Park,
the other for his
hard-drinking and writer friends from New York...Zona
Gale breaking
with her when she had children, insisting that a woman
couldn't be both
a writer and a mother at the same time. And the important
thing for me, I
realized after that night, was that she treated you
somewhat like an
equal, although you clearly weren't. Here was perhaps the
greatest writer I
had known and I felt perfectly at ease with her. She
somehow gave you
that generous permission to be yourself whatever you were,
whereas in a
thousand others that I had met there was always the sense of
their class
position, of their role as a published or well known writer and
you being
unknown, unpublished, a nobody in effect. "
LeSueur died in
Hudson, Wisconsin three years ago (11-96) where she was
living with her
daughter Rachel.
For as long as I
knew Meridel Inever heard her mention any of the Beat
wroiters or
poets--with the exception of Charlie Plymell. Even though
Meridel spent a
good deal of her life wandering the U.S. and Mexico. She
was a writer who
was very close to the working poor.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:55:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Sneaker Sutra
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Daniel,
thanks for this wonderful post. This is
the type of communication that
> Beat-l was
intended for.5
I, too,
appreciate this post very much.
Preston
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
vj@pop.primenet.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:30:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Joyce Johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I also
recommend "Nothing to Declare" by Holmes.
Nothing More to Declare
>The book is a
collection of character sketches
is a collection of essays of the characters, scene, and
times . . .
>of the known
and unknown members of the early beat scene in New York.
>His sketch
about Kerouac is great.
A classic
>There a lot
of books about the "scene" written by participants who
>either didn't
make the Times Book Review or who made it in other areas.
>Any body got
some titles to share?
Try, if you can
find:
Larry Rivers, What Did I Do? the
Unauthorized Biography (by Larry
Rivers)
Jay Landesman, Rebel without Applause
Seymour Krim, What's This Cat's Story?
Seymour Krim, Views of a Nearsighted
Cannoneer
Anything of the period by Paul Krassner
(publr, The Realist) will
get you
underground.
__________________
You Am lit/mod
lit prof people:
Holmes &
Krim, --essays, teach them. . . it'd be fun.
And my bet's on it's
going to happen
anyway, so lead the mule. There's $0.02.
--Good hunting.
_____________________
Skydivers know
why the birds sing
V.J. Eaton
Tempe, AZ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail1.eznet.net id
WAA21161
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:26:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Brian Peterson
<peterson@EZNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Tibetian New Year
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I celebrated New
Year with some Tibetan families in Lindsay, Ontario
several years
ago. Many families got together and
rented a hall in town
to hold a dinner
party. Some of the local talent performed elaborate
folk dances in
costume and others did instrumentals and sung Tibetan
songs. After the dinner and entertainment, partying continued on
through the
night. The participants danced to
contemporary music and
many partook of
spirits at a cash bar. Late into the
evening celebrants
started doing
many rounds of dialogue involving folks stories and
Buddhist
sayings.
>From the
dance hall, I went to a friends house
along with several other
people for coffee
and a little relaxation. Arriving back
at my Tibetan
host's house
around three in the morning I found several Tibetans
playing card
games and sitting in groups socializing.
Early in the
morning after a
large breakfast with other guests we started a round of
visiting families at their homes. Like everyone was having open
house. Rice beer flowed like water, fantastic
repasts awaited us
everywhere we
went. At one family's house we did a
Buddhist meditation
practice with
drums and bells. In the evening I headed back to the USA.
I understand in
Tibet around New Years the monasteries would do Lama
dances which
would portray various events in Buddhist literature.
Villagers would
travel for miles to see these events and camp outside
the
monastery. The homes in the villages
would be freshly whitewashed,
new prayer flags
would be hung. Visiting relatives and
friends would go
on for the whole
week after New Years and sometimes longer.
(is this beat?)
Brian
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:53:00 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: From Tibetian Beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Earlier I asked
about Tibetian New Years celebrations and received the
following from
one professing to be both Beat and Tibetian.
As colorful new prayer flags are hung
out over each home, the
smell of incense wafts through the villages.
At dawn on New
Year's Day, Tibetans visit monasteries,
shrines, and chortens to
make offerings. Then families venture
out to drink the new year's
chang (unhopped beer) with friends, to
picnic in the parks and
meadows, or to watch an archery tourney.
Devotees journey to
the Jokhang temple in Lhasa to donate
yak butter that keeps the
lamps burning well into the year. At
Barkor Plaza the giant
incense burners work overtime to handle
hundreds of people
queued up to throw in their offerings of
juniper branchs. New
sculptures of yak butter and tsampa
(roasted barley flour) are
displayed. Made by the lamas (monks),
the sculptures depict
deities and Buddhist scenes, and will be
unveiled at the Butter
Sculpture Festival at the first full
moon of the year (15 days
after New Year's Day).
New Year's Eve is Lu Yugpa, an
opportunity to banish evil spirits
from the old year and clear the way for
starting the new year
right. A frenzied house-cleaning chases
away the evil spirits to
let the good ones in. Some houses make a
ritual soup for the
spirits, which is put outside on a bed
of burning straws. In the
monasteries at Lhasa and Shigatse, lamas
walk in procession
with tsampa dough dolls. Their
destination is the monastery
forecourt where, amid much chanting, the
images are burned
and the spirits driven away. At
Tashilhumpo monastery on this
last day of the year, the lamas perform
masked dances to
symbolize the triumph of good over evil.
And a doctor
advised to
> Injesting
the mushroom Aminita (Red Fly Agaric) which has hallucinagenic
> as well as
other mind expanding properties.
Sounds llike a
great way to banish evil spirits.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:22:03 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: : Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META
content='"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>Nancy twice reaffirms that the commonly used
yiddish word
"mensch" basically describes a good natured, all around
good
guy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>I maintain that the German word
"mensch"
is neutral about positive or negative qualities of a human
person,
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2> (Thanks jens for
correcting
my misspelling.
It's been many years since my superficial acquaintance with the
German language.
Yiddish on the other hand I grew up with. It was the language
used primarily by
my family in eastern Europe and in our entire Jewish
community)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>I maintain that the Jewish word is
"mentsch"
and that it looks far beyond the qualities of good nature or
regular good
guy". Mensh has a foreign, German sound to my
ears.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2>Why should anybody care?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2>Only if you want to truly understand how Allen Ginzberg saw
the person that
he went out of the way to describe in the Yiddish word
"mentsch".
There is quite a long way to go from being a good natured,
regular good guy
and being a mentsch where I grew up. They are not incompatible,
but they are not
the same.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2>Mentsh where I grew up was an ace in the hand of Shadchens
(matchmakers) who
were forever trying to reassure the parents of the daughters
that the man they
had for them was not just a good natured regular good guy, but
a prize, a
mentsch, who would relieve them of their worry about how well their
daughters would
be provided and cared for. If anyone is interested in finding
out more, I refer
you to Yiddish dictionaries.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2>I hope I am not boring you. I hope you don't think I am
quibbling. I hope
I am contributing to your understanding of what Allen tried to
tell us about his
uncle. Now I will try to be a mentsh and shut up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2>Leon</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML></x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:07:42 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 25 Feb 1998 to 26 Feb
1998 (#1998-58)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i just want to
thank all of you for some very interesting posts today.
maybe i'll have
time to directly respond to some of them tomorrow. but,
really i learnede
some interesting things from today's posts.
ciao, sherri
p.s. marie, glad
to see you back!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:24:14 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: : Re: Questions on Ginsberg's
"America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Leon Tabory
wrote:
>
> Nancy twice
reaffirms that the commonly used yiddish word "mensch"
> basically
describes a good natured, all around good guy.
>
> I maintain
that the German word "mensch" is neutral about positive or
> negative
qualities of a human person,
> (Thanks jens for correcting my
misspelling. It's been many years
> since my
superficial acquaintance with the German language. Yiddish on
> the other
hand I grew up with. It was the language used primarily by
> my family in
eastern Europe and in our entire Jewish community)
>
> I maintain
that the Jewish word is "mentsch" and that it looks far
> beyond the
qualities of good nature or regular good guy". Mensh has a
> foreign,
German sound to my ears.
>
> Why should
anybody care?
>
> Only if you
want to truly understand how Allen Ginzberg saw the person
> that he went
out of the way to describe in the Yiddish word "mentsch".
> There is
quite a long way to go from being a good natured, regular
> good guy and
being a mentsch where I grew up. They are not
> incompatible,
but they are not the same.
>
> Mentsh where
I grew up was an ace in the hand of Shadchens
>
(matchmakers) who were forever trying to reassure the parents of the
> daughters
that the man they had for them was not just a good natured
> regular good
guy, but a prize, a mentsch, who would relieve them of
> their worry
about how well their daughters would be provided and cared
> for. If
anyone is interested in finding out more, I refer you to
> Yiddish
dictionaries.
>
> I hope I am
not boring you. I hope you don't think I am quibbling. I
> hope I am
contributing to your understanding of what Allen tried to
> tell us
about his uncle. Now I will try to be a mentsh and shut up.
>
> Leon
Excellant
point. I think the Yiddish word is
related to the German but
has the different
meaning. It remind me of american word
humor and the
english word
humour, sounds alike but have very different meanings.
i love those
quibbles over the meaning of a word. Good questions make
for good answers.
p
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:00:51 +0800
Reply-To: Yan Feng <yfeng@geocities.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Yan Feng <yfeng@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Beats on Stamps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I saw three
stamps with JK, AG, and WSB's head portrait on Nov'97 issue of
Globe(a chinese
magzine which is partly online). You can go to following url
to have a look. I
wonder if it is real or just images.
http://www.itc.com.cn/globe/97_11/g_nov04.htm
The essay begin
saying, he went to USA and planned to visit Allen Ginsberg,
but to his/her
surprise AG had passed the day before.
But throughout
the essay i felt the author wrote it with a temper sorts of
tease ( i don't
know the most suitable word). This is the temper of
mainstream on
beat writers.
Yan
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:30:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats on Stamps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>I saw three
stamps with JK, AG, and WSB's head portrait on Nov'97 issue of
>Globe(a
chinese magzine which is partly online). You can go to following url
>to have a
look. I wonder if it is real or just images.
>http://www.itc.com.cn/globe/97_11/g_nov04.htm
>The essay
begin saying, he went to USA and planned to visit Allen Ginsberg,
>but to
his/her surprise AG had passed the day before.
>But
throughout the essay i felt the author wrote it with a temper sorts of
>tease ( i
don't know the most suitable word). This is the temper of
>mainstream on
beat writers.
>
>Yan
It looks like the
stamp that Levi Asher made for his web site Literary
Kicks. If you've not seen it the address for it is
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn
I don't think the
US has put Ginsberg on a stamp yet (but of course that is
only a matter of
time).
Levi also has a
stamp of Kerouac illustration.
(And I know this
is a side issue but what is it with the encoding for gb.
I use Netscape
3.0 and the character set that they use at this site
[charset=gb_2312-80]
actually makes it so I cannot read three words.
That
sohoo site does
the same thing.)
Thanks for
letting us know of this site.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:06:29 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: More Joyce johnson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
when i went to
hear her read, i was delighted that she began with her
teeenage
adventures in the village, growing up years. and i think as well,
her brief
chapters about living with JK were not so much that he was beat,
but that he was
doing what she so much wanted to do, write, get published
perhaps, lead an
interesting life.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:13:58 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: an open letter to the list
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
if i already sent
this, apologies. my mailer was slightly nuked when i
drowned my
keyboard the other night
mc
Marie Countryman
wrote:
> > i want
you all to know how much your private condolences helped me
> > through
a long sleepless and difficult night. (you too sundee). after
> > i
drowned the keyboard, i was still able to use my mouse and read and
> > read
letter after letter full of caring and kindnesses in as many
> >
different ways as there are individuals on this list.
>
> thank you
for putting up with my tireless (tiresome, to some) revisions
> of my father
pomes. it just seemed i needed to go through that process
> and now i
know why.peace to you all
> marie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:11:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: More Joyce
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jens:
You wrote:
<but don't you
think that johnson's friendship with <kerouac was
essential for how
her entire life <developed? it's not as unimportant as
you might
<think, or as anyone might think when reading your <statement
"[the book]
has a chapter or two about <the author's life with kerouac".
the
"kerouac" theme <goes through almost the entire book.
<p.s. are we
talking about the same book? :)
Jens, You caught
me in a philosophical mood, so for what it's worth....
Sorry, I didn't
see the Kerouac theme running through the whole book.
Although I am a
confirmed Kerouaco, I have also come to realize that he
was just one
figure in the beat scene that was only one scene in the
cultural richness
of NYC. It started before his arrival, swirled around
him, and
continued long after he left for the Western Lands. If you read
the other beat
writers, particularly the observers like Jay Fleichman
[sic], Holmes,
Sanders (I just picked up Tales of Beatnik Glory on the
sale table and
B&N) maybe you can get a better feel for the richness of
that era, and the
place that Kerouac occupied in his own community. Not
everybody had
that high an opinion of Jack.
What I was really
trying to communicate is that Joyce Johnson is a very
talented author
in her own right and has a lot to say about growing up
and life in the
big city. Perhaps, her experience with Kerouac did shape
her life and
writing, but I think her work is much more than "my life
with Jack
Kerouac." Finally, yes, there is only a chapter or two
specifically
about her life with Jack Kerouac.
Actually, nobody
reads the same book as anyone else. Everyone reads
through the lens
of their own experience, knowledge and understanding.
Thanks for
listening.
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:15:34 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: jane
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thanks patricia,
as always, for putting the human dimension into this
complicated man,
wsb, your william.
mc
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> I drove by
his house
> still beat
red
> but a still
life
> no glimpse
of an elderly
> pajama clad
man reaching for the paper.
> the sides of
the yard
> wildly
unkept to screen
> the backyard
that was
> a beat scene
> where bill hatke
gardened
> his garden
appeared in an altered form in rolling stones
> where pits
were dug, bogs and ponds
> so william
could throw pellets at the fish.
> The front
porch with trellis of red roses
> that he
amazed my child with showing her
> there was no
scent.
> A lot of
amazement was shared
> because he
found it amazing.
> I felt like
i lost him
> listening to
crap
> then i
recalled
> when we
first met,
> how
strangers told me
> this and
that,
> the velco
man, that all myths clung to.
> So i write
little memories of
> fish and
tirades.
> How he could
hold your hand for moment.
> he is coming
back.
> i have
decided to visit his cats
> I think of
the guilt, that i
> who didn't
ever ask the questions
> and barely
remember the clues
> He sat and
told me about the similarities
> between the
calico he called jane
> and his
memories of jane bowles
> and i best
remember the cat.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:22:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: More Joyce
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Joyce is
certainly a very talented person in her own right as anyone who has re
ad her fiction
can attest. "In the Night
Cafe" might still be available but mo
st of her other
books are out of print. You can probably
find them, however, a
t most university
or larger public library systems.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:43:01 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: as ever inquiry
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
jenn: if you have
a good local bookstore, they can check out electronically if
it is in print.
that's how i found my copy, for 10 bucks, waxy bookcover over
bookcover, first
edition.
mc
Tread37 wrote:
> calling
austin, calling memphis...
>
> hello, beat
listers. i am on a desperate search for
the book "as ever," a
> book of
letters between allen ginsberg and neal cassady. i was wondering if
> anyone could
tell me how or where i can get a hold of it.
thanks guys, i
> appreciate
it.
>
> beans,
> jenn :o)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning:
wheat.mnsfld.edu: [157.62.11.38] didn't use HELO
protocol
X-Sender:
sinkovia@wheat.mnsfld.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:58:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aaron Sinkovich
<sinkovia@MNSFLD.EDU>
Subject: questions on "America"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Thanks to
everyone who gave me input on the questions I asked. It was very
helpful. I liked the discussion on the word
"mensch." For those who care,
Mother Bloor
refers to Ella Reeve Bloor who was a communist party figure. I
found some info
on her at ArchivesUSA by simply plugging her name into the
hotbot search
engine. I printed out the info, but I
don't have it with me
here. I'm still having trouble with the name Israel
Amter though. Any info?
--Aaron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron F.
Sinkovich
sinkovia@mnsfld.edu
http://mustuweb.mnsfld.edu/users/sinkovia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:51:16 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: jane
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I drove by his
house
still beat red
but a still life
no glimpse of an
elderly
pajama clad man
reaching for the paper.
the sides of the
yard
wildly unkept to
screen
the backyard that
was
a beat scene
where bill hatke
gardened
his garden
appeared in an altered form in rolling stones
where pits were
dug, bogs and ponds
so william could
throw pellets at the fish.
The front porch
with trellis of red roses
that he amazed my
child with showing her
there was no
scent.
A lot of
amazement was shared
because he found
it amazing.
I felt like i
lost him
listening to crap
then i recalled
when we first
met,
how strangers
told me
this and that,
the velco man,
that all myths clung to.
So i write little
memories of
fish and tirades.
How he could hold
your hand for moment.
he is coming
back.
i have decided to
visit his cats
I think of the
guilt, that i
who didn't ever
ask the questions
and barely
remember the clues
He sat and told
me about the similarities
between the
calico he called jane
and his memories
of jane bowles
and i best
remember the cat.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats on Stamps
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01bd434d$759231e0$LocalHost@---->
References:
Yan Feng writes:
>I saw three stamps
with JK, AG, and WSB's head portrait on Nov'97 issue of
>Globe(a
chinese magzine which is partly online). You can go to following url
>to have a
look. I wonder if it is real or just images.
>http://www.itc.com.cn/globe/97_11/g_nov04.htm
>The essay
begin saying, he went to USA and planned to visit Allen Ginsberg,
>but to
his/her surprise AG had passed the day before.
>But
throughout the essay i felt the author wrote it with a temper sorts of
>tease ( i
don't know the most suitable word). This is the temper of
>mainstream on
beat writers.
>
>Yan
>
Yan,
i found some time
ago (on the below web site)a Jack Kerouac's picture
on an Us of
America stamp, i was nice surprised as you,
if u arent too
busy please check
http://www3.mondadori.com/libri/babele/yesterday/forum/kerouac/nf_bio.html
ps. being from
Venice, Italy im' just a little courious 'bout
what place of
China u are from. if im' too much intrusive
please have my
apologies in advance.
saluti a tutti,
Rinaldo.
-------
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Denn
wovon lebt der Mensch?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<003a01bd433f$c307a260$455de3a5@mbay69.cruzio.com>
References:
cari amici beat,
open the book
"The Hydrogen Jukebox" [Jukebox all'idrogeno]
a wonderful cover
with Robert Frank's photo named "Teardrops"
at page 162
i've a glance to
the Allen Ginsberg's poem "America" verse
..."Scott
Nearing was a grand old man a real mensch Mother Bloor"...
at page 163
in italian
language Fernanda Pivano translates
..."Scott
Nearing era un gran vecchio un vero maschio Madre Bloor"...
then i think [[
mensch=maschio=manly,masculine=macho ]]
or something like
the Bertolt
Brecht statement in "Wiegenlieder" ''...Und nur Karl
Marx und Lenin
stand/Wie wir Arbeiter eine Zukunft haben...'' a
bold person, very
hard man, im' not literate in german language
but i remind to
meself (& to all intrsted) the Bertolt Brecht poem
[Denn wovon lebt
der Mensch?] Aus Die Dreigroschenoper.
I.
Ihr Herrnn, die
ihr uns lehrt, wie man brav leben
Und Sund und
Missetat vermeiden kann
Zuerst musst ihr
uns was zu fressen geben
Dann konnt ihr
reden: damit fangt es an.
Ihr, die ihr
euren Wanst und unsre Bravheit liebt
Das eine wisset
ein fur allemal:
Wie ihr es immer
dreht und wie ihr's immer schiebt
Erst kommt das
Fressen, dann kommt die Moral.
Erst muss es
moglich sein auch armen Leuten
Vom grossen
Brotlaib sich ihr Teil zu schneiden.
Denn wovon lebt
der Mensch? Indem er stundlich
Der Menschen
peingt, auszieht, anfallt, abwurgt und frisst.
Nur dadurch lebt
der Mensch, dass er so grundlich
Vergessen kann,
dass er ien Mensch doch ist.
Ihr Herren,
bildet euch nur da nichts ein:
Der Mensch lebt nur
von Missetat allein!
---Bertolt Brecht
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
questions on "America"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802271658.LAA29296@wheat.mnsfld.edu>
References:
>I'm still
having trouble with the name Israel Amter though. Any info?
>
>--Aaron
he was an
american communist
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:07:57 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 27
Feb 1998 20:00:05...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message dated
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:00:05 +0100 with subject "Denn wovon
lebt der
Mensch?" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (246
recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:07:59 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 27
Feb 1998 19:06:59...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:06:59 +0100 with subject "Re: Beats
on Stamps" has been successfully distributed
to the BEAT-L list (246
recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:13:38 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City University
of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 27
Feb 1998 20:06:39...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message dated
Fri, 27 Feb 1998
20:06:39 +0100 with subject "Re:
questions on
"America"" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list
(246 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:23:10 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats on Stamps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 07:06 PM
2/27/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Yan Feng
writes:
>>I saw
three stamps with JK, AG, and WSB's head portrait on Nov'97 issue of
>>Globe(a
chinese magzine which is partly online). You can go to following url
>>to have a
look. I wonder if it is real or just images.
>>http://www.itc.com.cn/globe/97_11/g_nov04.htm
>>The essay
begin saying, he went to USA and planned to visit Allen Ginsberg,
>>but to
his/her surprise AG had passed the day before.
>>But
throughout the essay i felt the author wrote it with a temper sorts of
>>tease ( i
don't know the most suitable word). This is the temper of
>>mainstream
on beat writers.
>>
>>Yan
>>
>Yan,
>
>i found some
time ago (on the below web site)a Jack Kerouac's picture
>on an Us of
America stamp, i was nice surprised as you,
>if u arent
too busy please check
This also is the
same stamp that Levi Asher produced for his web site.
On Levi's site,
Literary Kicks, the Kerouac stamp is at this URL
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/JackKerouac.html
and the Ginsberg
stamp is at this URL
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/AllenGinsberg.html
The Burroughs
stamp is at this URL
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/WilliamSBurroughs.html
Levi has done a
good job because the stamps seem to be very real.
But they are
pieces of art as of now and not yet real stamps for use in
sending mail via
the US Postal Service.
Neither rain nor
snow nor sleet nor hail...but I sure have noticed a lot of
times we seem to
get no mail on saturdays.....
I will from now
on refer to Levi Asher as: Levi Asher and his world-famous
pseudo-stamps.
>
>http://www3.mondadori.com/libri/babele/yesterday/forum/kerouac/nf_bio.html
>
>ps. being
from Venice, Italy im' just a little courious 'bout
>what place of
China u are from. if im' too much intrusive
>please have
my apologies in advance.
>
>saluti a
tutti,
>Rinaldo.
>-------
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:12:24 -0500
Reply-To: "henkel@wmich.edu"
<henkel@wmich.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>
Organization:
OVPR
Subject: Beats and the digital revolution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I've always
thought (or wanted to think) that the way I (and no doubt many
other writers on
Beat-L) share writings or ideas for essays, stories, etc.
over e-mail has a
parallel between the way Jack et al shared through
letters.
I read this in
the Chronicle of Higher Education today, and thought I might
share it with the
list.
Scott
_____________
A glance at the
March issue of Wired:
How the Beat
movement paved the way for the digital revolution
Long before personal computers and
e-mail became common, William
S.
Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, Jack
Kerouac, and other writers in
the Beat
movement expressed ideas about art
and creativity that have now
been realized
in cyberspace, writes David Batstone,
a professor of social
ethics at the
University of San Francisco.
Dr. Batstone compares the theme of
Kerouac's On the Road with
the theories
of Sherry Turkle, a professor at the
Massachusetts Institute of
Technology
who studies personal identity in the
digital age. The two write
in vastly
different social contexts, he says,
but they have very similar
ideas about
personal identity.
Kerouac also "foresaw a day when
the means of communication
would
facilitate not only spontaneous
prose, but a more immediate
exchange of ideas
as well" -- a notion prescient
of e-mail. Similarly, Burroughs
developed a
montage-like style of writing in
which he cut and pasted
together pieces
of text
to "design" a book, much
like today's World-Wide Web pages, Dr.
Batstone
writes.
(The magazine's Web site is
http://www.wired.com)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:34:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tread37 <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: as
ever inquiry
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
calling austin,
calling memphis...
hello, beat
listers. i am on a desperate search for
the book "as ever," a
book of letters
between allen ginsberg and neal cassady.
i was wondering if
anyone could tell
me how or where i can get a hold of it.
thanks guys, i
appreciate it.
beans,
jenn :o)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:58:56 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg on DiPrima
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-rich>
"Diane di Prima, revolutionary activist of the 1960s Beat literary
renaissance,
heroic in life and poetics: a learned humorous bohemian,
classically
educated and twentieth-century radical, her writing,
informed by
Buddhist equanimity, is exemplary in imagist, political and
mystical modes. A
great woman poet in second half of American century,
she broke
barriers of race-class identity, delivered a major body of
verse brilliant
in its particularity." --Allen Ginsberg
Comments
arttached to DiPrima's most recent book,
"Pieces of a Song:
Selected
Poems," from City Lights. ISBN 0-87286-237-2 , 204 pp, $12.95
<fontfamily><param>Times</param><smaller> Small & Academic
Press Publishers
and Authors
Display Books Free At BookZen
792,482
Visitors 07-01-96 to 02-01-98
http://www.bookzen.com</smaller></fontfamily>
</x-rich>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:54:18 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats on Stamps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> I will from
now on refer to Levi Asher as: Levi Asher and his world-famous
>
pseudo-stamps.
The best story I
heard about these stamps was from a friend
of mine who knows
people who hang out with Gregory Corso, and
who once got
invited to a dinner party at Corso's place.
At the
dinner Gregory
actually pulled out a printout of the pseudo-stamp I
did of him
(http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/GregoryCorso.html),
and told
everybody "Look, in Italy they put me on a stamp".
My friend later
took him aside and whispered "You know, that's
not a real stamp,
some guy in Queens made it with a scanner".
Corso whispered
back "I know, just don't tell everybody else".
I love it ... one
of my prouder moments in life ...
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "I think somebody better put out
the big light" |
| -- Elvis
Costello |
---------------------------------------------------------
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats on Stamps
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802272154.NAA03502@netcom14.netcom.com>
References:
<199802271923.LAA29773@hsc.usc.edu> from "Timothy K. Gallaher"
at Feb 27, 98 11:23:10
am>
Levi wrote:
>At the
>dinner
Gregory actually pulled out a printout of the pseudo-stamp I
>did of him
(http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/GregoryCorso.html),
>and told
everybody "Look, in Italy they put me on a stamp".
>
Levi,
of course if im
italian i fall for it like Gregory Corso!
btw yr stamp is
on the web in the home page of the greatest
publisher house
now here in italy (mondadori in milan) his
owner is Silvio
Berlusconi the italian merchant of commercial
TV and
millionaire and right centrist politician...
but his publisher
house has out the best titles of the Kerouac.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:29:57 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 28 Feb
1998 00:21:52...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:21:52 +0100 with subject "Re: Beats
on Stamps" has been successfully distributed
to the BEAT-L list (246
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:51:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: as ever inquiry
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-02-27 15:37:29 EST, you write:
<< hello,
beat listers. i am on a desperate search
for the book "as ever," a
book of letters between allen ginsberg and
neal cassady. i was wondering if
anyone could tell me how or where i can get a
hold of it. thanks guys, i
appreciate it.
beans,
jenn :o) >>
hey jenn....call
1-800-kerouac then call me ;-)
~~marlene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:23:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: as ever inquiry
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 09:51 PM
2/27/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 98-02-27 15:37:29 EST, you write:
>
><<
hello, beat listers. i am on a desperate
search for the book "as ever," a
> book of
letters between allen ginsberg and neal cassady. i was wondering if
> anyone could
tell me how or where i can get a hold of it.
thanks guys, i
> appreciate
it.
>
> beans,
> jenn :o) >>
>
>hey
jenn....call 1-800-kerouac then call me ;-)
>~~marlene
>
>
Hello, Jenn -
Regarding the book "As Ever" -- I don't know if this helps at
all, but the
book's full title is "As Ever - The Collected Correspondence of
Allen Ginsberg
& Neal Cassady" (Creative Arts Book Company, 1977)
ISBN
0-916870-08-1 (paper)
ISBN 0-916870-09X
(cloth)
Lib. Of Congress
Card Catalog No. 77-082182
- Jeff Perchuk
(Legacy Antiquarian Books)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to
quoted-printable by geocities.com id VAA13934
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:02:39 +0800
Reply-To: Yan Feng <yfeng@geocities.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Yan Feng <yfeng@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats and the digital revolution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think so too.
call yourself net
beat, a very nice name.
-----Original
Message-----
*¢1/4þÈË: Scott
Henkel <henkel@wmich.edu>
ÊÕ1/4þÈË:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
ÈÕÆÚ:
1998Äê2ÔÂ28ÈÕ 4:13
Ö÷Ìâ: Beats and
the digital revolution
I've always
thought (or wanted to think) that the way I (and no doubt many
other writers on
Beat-L) share writings or ideas for essays, stories, etc.
over e-mail has a
parallel between the way Jack et al shared through
letters.
I read this in
the Chronicle of Higher Education today, and thought I might
share it with the
list.
Scott
_____________
A glance at the
March issue of Wired:
How the Beat
movement paved the way for the digital revolution
Long before personal computers and
e-mail became common, William
S.
Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, Jack
Kerouac, and other writers in
the Beat
movement expressed ideas about art
and creativity that have now
been realized
in cyberspace, writes David
Batstone, a professor of social
ethics at the
University of San Francisco.
Dr. Batstone compares the theme of
Kerouac's On the Road with
the theories
of Sherry Turkle, a professor at the
Massachusetts Institute of
Technology
who studies personal identity in the
digital age. The two write
in vastly
different social contexts, he says,
but they have very similar
ideas about
personal identity.
Kerouac also "foresaw a day
when the means of communication
would
facilitate not only spontaneous
prose, but a more immediate
exchange of ideas
as well" -- a notion prescient
of e-mail. Similarly, Burroughs
developed a
montage-like style of writing in
which he cut and pasted
together pieces
of text
to "design" a book, much
like today's World-Wide Web pages, Dr.
Batstone
writes.
(The magazine's Web site is
http://www.wired.com)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:23:37 +0800
Reply-To: Yan Feng <yfeng@geocities.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Yan Feng <yfeng@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats on Stamps
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
gb encoding is
for simplified chinese and used mainly in mainland china. In
Taiwan of China
people use traditional chinese with encoding of Big5. it is
a sorry thing.
Thanks for
introducing me to the web sites.
( Rinaldo, I am
from Tianjin, a city near Beijing. It is my pleasure to let
folks oversea
know me)
Yan
>
>It looks like
the stamp that Levi Asher made for his web site Literary
>Kicks. If you've not seen it the address for it is
>
>http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn
>
>I don't think
the US has put Ginsberg on a stamp yet (but of course that is
>only a matter
of time).
>
>Levi also has
a stamp of Kerouac illustration.
>
>(And I know this
is a side issue but what is it with the encoding for gb.
>I use
Netscape 3.0 and the character set that they use at this site
>[charset=gb_2312-80]
actually makes it so I cannot read three words.
That
>sohoo site
does the same thing.)
>
>Thanks for
letting us know of this site.
>
>Yan,
>
>i found some
time ago (on the below web site)a Jack Kerouac's picture
>on an Us of
America stamp, i was nice surprised as you,
>if u arent
too busy please check
>
>http://www3.mondadori.com/libri/babele/yesterday/forum/kerouac/nf_bio.html
>
>ps. being
from Venice, Italy im' just a little courious 'bout
>what place of
China u are from. if im' too much intrusive
>please have
my apologies in advance.
>
>saluti a
tutti,
>Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:24:50 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Jack Micheline's passing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To my friend on
the Beat-L: Feb 27, 1998
It is with heavy heart that I tell you
of the passing of one of the
few remaining
Beat greats: Jack Micheline. He died,
apparently of a heart
attack, on the
Bart train to Orinda this morning--in the East Bay Area near
San
Francisco. He was 68 and had been
suffering from diabetes for several
years.
Jack Kerouac wrote the introduction to
Micheline's first book, RIVER
OF RED WINE, in
1958. Kerouac wrote: "He has that
swinging free style I
like ... and his
sweet lines revive the poetry of open hope in America."
Over the next
forty years Micheline published more than 20 books of poetry,
forging an
authentic voice of the American streets, half jazz, half street
hustler, and his
reading style was dynamic and inimitable.
At the 1982 On
the Road
conference at the Naropa Institute in Boulder, Ken Kesey gave
Micheline an
award for "best performance" at that ten-day conference, which
was filled with
superstars from Abbie Hoffman to Burroughs to Anne Waldman,
et al. Micheline was a mentor to Charles Bukowski,
who declared Micheline
one of the few
poets he genuinely admired. In fact
Bukowski wrote: "When
Jack is turned on
he is capable of writing a better poem than I could ever
write." Micheline was also a short story writer, and
his stories were
praised by both
Allen Ginsberg--for "precise eye and an economical phrasing
for concrete
particular details of persons, looks, scenes, situations and
actions"--and
by Hubert Selby, Jr., who wrote that Micheline "forces us to
become aware of
certain truths we would all like to hide from." Even Norman
Mailer praised
Micheline's "lyrical intensity" and said his stories "seek to
deal, and I think
deal successfully, with the completeness of experience in
what society is
sometimes fond to call its social depths."
I was honored to call Micheline my
friend. I wrote his biographical
entry for the
Dictionary of Literary Biography 15 years ago (Volume 16, the
Beats), and I
will miss him dearly. For those of you
who don't know his
work, there was a
recent collection of his work that spans his entire
career--a really wonderful
introduction to the humanity and compassion and
musical soul of
Micheline, called SIXTY-SEVEN POEMS FOR DOWNTRODDEN SAINTS.
It's available
from FMSBW Press, 84 Sycamore St., San Francisco, CA 94110.
Publisher Matt
Gonzalez.
Pax vobiscum, Jack, and may you rest in
peace.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:38:36 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack Micheline's passing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sorry to hear
about Jack Micheline Gerry. Lovely thoughts on his passing.
If you write more
please pass them on to me so I can add them to an obit on
BookZen. If you see an obit that is worthy of him
please share it with me.
Hopeyou and the
family are well.
joe
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 04:07:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: FU*K IRAQ
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
FU*CK IRAQ
____________
FU*CK THE WORLD
I WANT TO GET OFF
FU*CK THE WORLD
I WANT TO GET ON
FU*CK THE WORLD
I WANT TO GET FU*CKED
FU*CK THE WORLD
I CAN'T GET FU*CKED
CAUSE AFTER ALL
I AIN'T THE FU*CKEN PRESIDENT
SO NOW I SAY
FU*CK IRAQ
AND I'LL FU*CK
THE REST OF THE WORLD
LATER....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:40:33 -0800
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Jack Micheline's passing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
After reading
'Poet Of The Streets' for the first time six years ago, I
was blown away by
his words, which were very much like his buddy
Kerouac's. I saw
him once on Conan O'Brien, where he recited an
hilarious poem
about duck soup or something like that...his paintings
also have that
whimsical feel to them.
Another one goes
down.
Adrien
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> To my friend
on the Beat-L: Feb 27, 1998
> It is with heavy heart that I tell you
of the passing of one of the
> few
remaining Beat greats: Jack Micheline.
He died, apparently of a heart
> attack, on
the Bart train to Orinda this morning--in the East Bay Area near
> San
Francisco. He was 68 and had been
suffering from diabetes for several
> years.
> Jack Kerouac wrote the introduction to
Micheline's first book, RIVER
> OF RED WINE,
in 1958. Kerouac wrote: "He has
that swinging free style I
> like ... and
his sweet lines revive the poetry of open hope in America."
> Over the
next forty years Micheline published more than 20 books of poetry,
> forging an
authentic voice of the American streets, half jazz, half street
> hustler, and
his reading style was dynamic and inimitable.
At the 1982 On
> the Road
conference at the Naropa Institute in Boulder, Ken Kesey gave
> Micheline an
award for "best performance" at that ten-day conference, which
> was filled
with superstars from Abbie Hoffman to Burroughs to Anne Waldman,
> et al. Micheline was a mentor to Charles Bukowski,
who declared Micheline
> one of the
few poets he genuinely admired. In fact
Bukowski wrote: "When
> Jack is
turned on he is capable of writing a better poem than I could ever
>
write." Micheline was also a short
story writer, and his stories were
> praised by
both Allen Ginsberg--for "precise eye and an economical phrasing
> for concrete
particular details of persons, looks, scenes, situations and
>
actions"--and by Hubert Selby, Jr., who wrote that Micheline "forces
us to
> become aware
of certain truths we would all like to hide from." Even Norman
> Mailer
praised Micheline's "lyrical intensity" and said his stories
"seek to
> deal, and I
think deal successfully, with the completeness of experience in
> what society
is sometimes fond to call its social depths."
> I was honored to call Micheline my
friend. I wrote his biographical
> entry for
the Dictionary of Literary Biography 15 years ago (Volume 16, the
> Beats), and
I will miss him dearly. For those of you
who don't know his
> work, there
was a recent collection of his work that spans his entire
> career--a
really wonderful introduction to the humanity and compassion and
> musical soul
of Micheline, called SIXTY-SEVEN POEMS FOR DOWNTRODDEN SAINTS.
> It's
available from FMSBW Press, 84 Sycamore St., San Francisco, CA 94110.
> Publisher
Matt Gonzalez.
> Pax vobiscum, Jack, and may you rest
in peace.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:38:44 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Re: Beats and the digital revolution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yan Feng wrote:
> call
yourself net beat, a very nice name.
Scott Henkel
cited from WIRED:
> Kerouac also
"foresaw a day when the means of communication would
> facilitate
not only spontaneous prose, but a more immediate
> exchange of
ideas as well" -- a notion prescient of e-mail. Similarly, >
Burroughs developed a montage-like style of
writing in which he cut
> and pasted
together pieces of text to "design" a book, much like
> today's
World-Wide Web pages, Dr. Batstone writes.
that's exactly
what i think makes the online world an exciting place to
live in...
every e-mail is a
cutup of thoughts, a get-together of different
thoughts and
cultures, every webpage is a source for cutups, and
burroughs has
been the godfather of the cyberpunks. have you ever tried
to cut up html
source codes from different sites? might be interesting.
take the white
house page, cut it up with wired.com, some xxx pages, the
new york times
pages, some online sources about the cutup technique and
so on...
i'd encourage
everyone interested in this topic to read "electronic
revolution"
by william s. burroughs. it's an essential book for every
cyber punk or
cyber beat. it is available online somewhere out there...
but altavista can
definitely find it. :)
- jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:15:49 ARG
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<rvcalvo@mail.satlink.com>
From: Jorge Calvo
<rvcalvo@SATLINK.COM>
Subject: spiNa biFida tinfoiL
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
What do you think
about AKBAR DEL PIOMBO books?. Have been written by William
Lee diving these
stuffed universe looking for some bucks and having fun
writing those
erotic stories while in Paris in the Beat Hotel? Or not?
I can't decide
(I'm currently reading "The Fetish Crowd")
-----------------------------------
By the way, kind
of a late answer so I will not explain wich is every book, etc
because
some other people
of this list have already done it. I only wanted to say that I
saw those books
in several bookstores in London. Maybe they are out
of print but
still available.
>
> "Four
Horsemen of the Apocalypse" - Published only in Germany, and in
> the German
language? Was there ever an English translation?
>
"Cobblestone Gardens" - published by Cherry Valley Press in 1976.
What
> IS this??
>
"Electronic Revolution" - Left Bank Books, 1971 - ????
Regards
LacOv
---------- --
rvcalvo@satlink.com
Ushuaia
Tierra del Fuego
Argentina
...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:47:44 +0800
Reply-To: Yan Feng <yfeng@geocities.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Yan Feng <yfeng@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Re: FU*K IRAQ
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It seems that US
and his two little brother, J and UK, have decided to raid
Irag whatever the
issue develops to.
For what? for
USA's benefits? but what about......
Add me on the
petition. I like it. it sounds like:
YOU RAID IRAG
WE BOMB YOUR
MAILBOX
Yan
>FU*CK IRAQ
>____________
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET OFF
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET ON
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET FU*CKED
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I CAN'T GET FU*CKED
>CAUSE AFTER
ALL
> I AIN'T THE FU*CKEN PRESIDENT
>
>SO NOW I SAY
> FU*CK IRAQ
>
>AND I'LL
FU*CK THE REST OF THE WORLD
> LATER....
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
PAA07869
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:51:34 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: (pome) mc 2/25/98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(should be
centered)
2/25/95
my father died
today
again, so far
apart from me
yet together in
our own strange way-
2/22 is my
birthday.
so, we share the
water sign, pices
me in birth-
he in death.
i don't know what
to make of that.
not being one to
place much stock
in the making of
astrology charts
or even
anniversaries
but,
this is one i
cannot stop
from entering the
core of me.
i am stunned at
the depth of my grief,
having told myself
i lost him long ago,
while i was
growing up,
when he was
growing old,
(his mind had
left, his body refused to go).
but the pain in
my heart tells me this is not so,
now that he has
left,
and we await
the return of his
ashes from a southern state.
(c)marie
countryman, feb 28, 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:39:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: FU*K IRAQ
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:07 AM
2/28/98 EST, you wrote:
>FU*CK IRAQ
>____________
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET OFF
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET ON
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I WANT TO GET FU*CKED
>
>FU*CK THE
WORLD
> I CAN'T GET FU*CKED
>CAUSE AFTER
ALL
> I AIN'T THE FU*CKEN PRESIDENT
>
>SO NOW I SAY
> FU*CK IRAQ
>
>AND I'LL
FU*CK THE REST OF THE WORLD
> LATER....
>
>
No comment other
than.....well said, Attila. My thoughts exactly!
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:22:14 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance <morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Fwd: the invisible Jack Micheline
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jim Gardner,
poet, http://www.rahul.net/jag/gardner.html
posted the
following text today.
The
"news" Jim refers to in the first sentence is
G. Nicosia's
recent post to BEAT-L. --Gregory Severance
----------------
Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: Feb. 28, 1998
From: Jim Gardner, jag@rahul.net
To: The Bohemian Mailing List
Thanks for
forwarding news about Jack Micheline's death,
Greg.
I logged on this
morning having just made this sad discovery
during a
neighborhood walk. I returned home with
intention of
writing a few of my thoughts about my
marginal, and
ironic, encounters with Micheline in
the past two and
a half years.
Jack Micheline,
great poet I think, in that being
a perfect
archetype of a whole continent of poets
and poetry unique
to our, and his, time. A poet
carried on a wave
of the greatest explosion of youth
consciousness in
all of human history (1946-1969),
carried on and
growing with them, growing old just
ahead of most of
them, signpost that.
I walked down to
Planet Health for organic
milk and coffee
beans and saw in the window of
Abandoned Planet
a small shrine for Jack. I realized
then he had died
but still didn't know the details.
I was surprised,
as death always surprises, for
I had just lain
eyes on Jack Thurday afternoon
sitting in a
chair on 16th Street.
I saw his friend,
the artist Head, walk over to the
shrine but we did
not speak. The shrine in the window
told some of
Jack's story in an oddly Alexandrian
iconography. This
bookstore has anterooms painted
recently by Jack,
who lived across the street in
the Curtis Hotel.
To die on BART.
Somehow that strikes me as the
sort of thing
that Micheline would do. His final
"fuck
you" to the crowd. That final "fuck you"
to a nation and
time that made him invisible to
those without an
eye for such precious palpabilities
that leer out
just behind the daily news--eyes of
a disapproving
old crank of a poet--"what're you
looking at,
boy!". Over the last year, when I would
see Jack
Micheline on the street, he might have cream
cheese on his
chin, he might sneer, he might be
speaking of Van
Gogh with a youngster he'd seen favor in,
he might remind
me of Joni Mitchell singing about her visit
to Memphis and
the aged, exploited W. C. Handy--who sneered
at her
rock-starness driving up in a limo--having made it
on riffs he and
the old Memphis bluesters laid down decades
before. Handy,
bed-ridden, willing to bum a smoke and a drink--
looks at
Mitchell--"I don't like you." That might be Jack,
the invisible
man, W. C. Handy down Beale Street, underbelly
of glamor life
you might see at 630am on city streets.
The maker of
gestures must walk away in seeming defeat
as nighttime
ends, leave truth to lie in the heat of
the street
crossing...hobble off like the ghosts of
time that we
really are.
Having met Jack
last August (and him not by any means
liking my looks)
at the Adobe Books reading, this was
just another
typical near-miss run-in with him. He
sat
outside Mission
Grounds on Thursday in a wooden chair. He
did look downcast
and I can say I'll never forget
the despair I saw
in his eyes as I passed.
Leafing through
SIXTY-SEVEN POEMS FOR DOWNTRODDEN
SAINTS--which
indicated the poet's age as well as
the number of
poems--one might think Micheline
was not a great
poet. One would be wrong. From
his early days,
to his days running with Bukowski
(whom he
mentioned nearly every time I heard him
speak with some
young Mission boheme at Adobe on
afternoons), Jack
possessed a lyric capacity that
could be quite
stunning in its simplicity.
During the Adobe
reading on Aug 17, 1997--Jack,
suffering from
eyeglasses missing a temple, held
mesmerized a
crowd of about 60 with sing-song readings
of his gem-like
works:
A Poet Can Be A
Shoemaker
.
.
Don't expect
anyone to
Understand to
blow
A kiss in a cold
night
A poet can be a
shoemaker
A waitress who
never
Wrote a line
A poet could be
the
Invisible man
From a letter to Ben Gulyas
January 5, 1989
One could nearly
well know from seeing Jack that he
was the
archetypal 20thc. American poet--invisible,
at such a right
angle to the business of America
as to serve as
its unbidden conscience. A conscience
more often spat
at and shit on than adhered to and
honored for its
simple common decency. Jack--plebian,
for the working
man, who I am told drove away every
patron he ever
had.
In 1961, Jack was
writing in the full-blown Beat style
that was not, I
think, his native tongue. And yet his
achievements in
that slovenly genre in some spots surpass
that of his
masters--
Nine Guns for a
Sailor
.
.
.
I saw you
standing your far out eyes to the sea
on a deck of a
ship that was gone long ago
in the lots you
were sitting and the weed six feet high
and the Brooklyn
night ran wild
just a boy and a
dream just a boy
just a wild kid,
hot in the pants with far out eyes
crazy Maggie and
the Blimp
Irish beer and
Mulligan stew
the gang on the
corner and the dollar and the dying
Bay Ridge
parkway, Erie Basin, Fifty-seventh by the sea
and those chicks
on the corner by the sea
no more sea
sailor boy
no more sea
I saw you
standing with your far out eyes on a bridge of a ship
and the waves
twelve feet high
and the park by
the ferry where Susie lost her cherry
and the gang
called the monks done you in
rolling fifty dog
face soldiers
do 'em in for
good old glory
with a fucking
mickey finn
and those junkies
with those eyes gone crazy
playing Bartok
with a trombone and the Bird with some old bones
and the real was
your brother
and the real dies
at twenty
and the real they
hide and cover
on a one way
street called hell
lost your bennies
in the sea
no more sea
sailor boy
no more sea
I saw you
standing with those far out eyes on a bridge of a ship
and the neon
always racing and your blood
nine guns for a
sailor Cubby O for the sea
no more sea
sailor boy
no more sea
.
.
1961
Jack Micheline
Yes, crazy
Maggie. Yes, mulligan stew. This one is in every sense
more meaty than
many of the jottings we called Beat.
Jack was given
one poem in "The Portable Beat Reader," an indic-
ation of the amnesiacal
poetry community than of his own
stature as a
poet. Driving off patrons will find one struggling
to barely be
recognized as The Invisible Man. But no matter, it
was a miracle he
made it in at all.
When I returned
to Louisville in October 1997, I was made aware
by my friend John
Papanek that Micheline had gained a certain
currency and a
following among the small but serious literary
set there--and
among one 23 year old friend of his most spec-
ifically --who
loved Jack Micheline's poems. When John and his
united partner
Nicky stopped in San Francisco during a West Coast
honeymoon
tour--we made a brief, not really notable visit
to one of Jack's
favorite haunts, to patrons he had not
driven off or
been forgotten by at Adobe Books. The authentic
poetry goods were
carried off by Mr. Papanek and Jack has a bit
of a timeless
home in Kentucky these days. And if he could know
the tar-bright
delight of that Victorian town, he'd know, might
know after
all--he should be at home there. For all time
hovering and
streaming with its urban secrets, insomuch as
Brooklyn, the
Bronx, the Mission.
I, for one, will
always hold dear my night at Jack's reading
as I crouched
down behind books that screamed out to me,
"Louisville,
lost, love, los gatos, meww, purr, it is one
night, it is, it
is, lost for all time, ...black tar...black
tar in the
night."
Night City
.
.
.
.
Above the sounds
dark cities
lie in shadows
foghorns blast in
silence
prayers of lost
children
by light of
mountains
darkness to light
light to darkness
I stand looking
down at the city
steeples rise in
magic shapes
arcs of bridges
cover the river
steam white
crosses
illuminate the
eye
black tar of
loneliness
billboards neon
red
buildings stand
and fall
but man remains
like dying
timbers
in a forest
man remains
on a warehouse
stairway
to the moon
three empty wine
bottles stand
Nuns
Vipers
Holy Mary Face
that is not yours
but you are all
madness of cities
King majesty
drunk with awe
quiet, tired,
restless city
Black tar in the
night
Black tar in the
night
.
.
1957
Rooftop on Crosby
Street
New York City
from
"sixty-seven poems for downtrodden saints"
thanks Jack
sorry you didn't
like my looks
but I didn't mind
so much
as I wore it as
an emblem
of my own
invisibility
to dwell in the
universal specific
nearby you was
gift enough
J.
James A. Gardner
The solid book we wrote *
* __o Cannot be found
today *
* __\<,_ *
* (_)/ (_) http://www.rahul.net/jag/ *
-----------------
End Forwarded Message -----------------
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
* Gregory
Severance *
*
morocco@walrus.com *
*
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/ *
* *
* "War! What
is it good for? *
* Absolutely nothing. *
* Say it again." *
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
TAA20684
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:23:01 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: mc pome #2/25/98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
at least i got
the date right this time
(not centered)
2/25/98
my father died
today
again, he was
so far apart from
me
yet together,
in our own strange way-
(2/22 is my birthday).
which, in a way,
makes us both pices:
me in birth-
he in death.
i don't know what
to make of that.
(not being one to place much stock
in astrology
charts),
or even
anniversaries:
but,
this is one i
cannot stop
from entering the core of me.
i am stunned at
the depth of my grief,
having told
myself i lost him long ago:
while i was growing up,
when he was growing old,
(his mind had
left, his body refused to go).
but the pain in
my heart tells me this is not so,
now that he has
left,
and we await
the return of his ashes
from a southern state.
(c)marie
countryman, feb 28, 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
TAA26406
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:52:54 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the final trilogy (mc)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
my father's
trilogy
one:
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
(restrained, and
wheel chair bound),
slack-jawed into the cameras lens
oblivious, the shutter snaps
a photo of
his consciousness-
a
porch light
growing dim.
just when i thought it safe,
old memories attack
he was mostly vacant then,
coming home, if at all,
long past supper time
(trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in,
turning back on mother's rage
on way out) again.
my father was a tin man,
a
traveling salesman,
who conned respectability
who shirked responsibility
living a separate life in bars
on
road,
to keep him family-free.
if i had my life to live again,
id never have been a family man
(thus annihilating me).
the last time i saw my father
was four years ago, or more.
we fought -
over what, i cant recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking the ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up,
and so succumbed once more.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid his head
upon my lap
sparking memories of forgotten past,
that further distance wrought.
estranged all these past years
(i moved up north
he, south)-
both thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo -except me-
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didnt i know
he carried always in billfold
snapshots of my brother,
mom, and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now there's nothing left,
no connection,
dislocation,
my silent
shatteringscreams within-
and the urge to flee.
(c) 1998 Marie Countryman
two:
my father's billfold
delivered to my door today
were the photos from his wife:
the ones he kept in all billfolds
he carried all his life.
my father can't remember
-if he ever had a billfold-
-if he ever had a family-
- a son, a wife, or me.
oh, the irony:
just as living now in dying,
he was always absentee.
the photos - cracked and stained,
faded with sweat and aged
by the all the years
of his life,
black and white now sepia:
me at five
my brother at eight
and mom, his dead wife.
as i look at me looking up at me
i can barely remember this child
but
the huge brown eyes are mine:
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
forever frozen in time.
i so adored my dad,
and had so little of him-
yet
suddenly i see
that always he had me-
just like a paper doll,
inhabiting his billfold
with his paper family.
with me in his billfold,
we sat in countless bars,
in his way together:
he forever drinking
me forever hopeful,
me forever frozen,
me forever five.
(c) marie countryman 2/22/98(on her
45th birthday ) .
three:
2/25/98
my father died
today
again, he was
so far apart from
me
yet we were together,
in our own strange way-
(2/22 is my birthday).
which, in a way,
makes us both pices:
me in birth-
he in death.
i don't know what
to make of that.
(not being one to place much stock
in astrology
charts),
or even
anniversaries:
but,
this is one i
cannot stop
from entering the core of me.
i am stunned at
the depth of my grief,
having told
myself i lost him long ago:
while i was growing up,
when he was growing old,
(his mind had
left, his body refused to go).
but the pain in
my heart tells me this is not so,
now that he has
left,
and we all await
the return of his mortal ashes
from a southern state.
(c)marie
countryman, feb 28, 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:01:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: where the discussion about
"mensch" can lead to
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi all,
here is something
that might add useful information to the discussion
about the word
"mensch" in allen ginsberg's poem "america". leon tabory
had taken
"mensch" as a yiddish word, and i had taken "mensch" as a
german word.
well, we both were right, since the yiddish language is a
mixture of
different languages (german, hebrew, russian, polish,
etc...).
after i had
corrected him, i wrote to leon tabory apologizing for having
corrected him,
because i though he, as a survivor of the nazi regime,
would have bitter
feelings about a german correcting his use of the
yiddish/german
language.
he wrote that he
didn't feel bitter at all, but told me a story why my
correction was
useful to him and reminded him of something very
important. since
this story belongs to the discussion about the word
"mensch",
i'll repost it here. anyone who thinks that this doesnt belong
to the beat topic
might delete this message.
i hope you agree
with it, leon. you're a real mensch. :)
-- jens
Leon Tabory
wrote:
> The reason I
especially appreciate your correction is this. Your correction
> did remind
me of something, but it was something very positive and
> interesting
in my life. I kept asking myself how come in my mind the German
> word mensh
just wants to add an umlaut. I was wondering if I just go
> overboard in
hearing umlauts in the German language. It is true that I like
> the music of
the drawn out combination of vowels in umlauts that add so much
> melody and
soften the harshness of consonants with an expansive
>
expressiveness that seems to communicate more from the feelings than just
> hard
descriptions in vowels that are squeezed in almost as if they were
>
embarrassments between the hard facts of consonants that dominate them. To
> me the
umlaut almost saves the German language from being overpowered by
> powerful
oppressiveness of harsh sounds of technological consonants.
>
> That's true
of the English language, I suddenly became aware again of how
> american
English especially where vowels get shortened and squeezed out of
> the way.
Time is money and there is no time for expansive vowels. The
> pressures
are severe.
>
> Suddenly a
scene that keeps recurring in my mind now for over fifty years
> popped in my
mind. I never forgot the words of Herr Professor Carl
> Hagenmueller
in Muenchen in 1945. He was sad that I decide to go to the
> United
States and was trying to persuade me to stay in Germany
> "wo der mensh (thanks jens) den menshen
naher ist". ( I am not sure of the
> grammar or
syntax, but it sounded like it.
>
> I can still
see the tall professor with his erect aristocratic bearing at an
> advanced age
(maybe in the seventies), His thick white grey mustache
> extending on
both sides of his kind intelligent face
in the nicely
> furnished
but only single room he shared with his diminutive wife ( He also
> had a
mistress who played the piano for us when he took me to visit her for
> a dinner
that she prepared for us), but I digress. I suddenly realize that I
> should write
downmy memories of DR. Karl Hagenmueller, but not in this post
> that is
getting too long already and holding a captive audience.
>
> I met Dr.
Karl (Carl?, I still have one of his letters to me, should dig it
> up)
Hagenmueler after the war, in May 1945 when I found a room to rent next
> to his in an
apartment of the only house that remained intact on Sendlinger
> Torplatz in
Munchen. When he said those words I thought that was very
> strange for
him to think that after my war experiences, but I have over the
> years come
to contemplate that "wo der mensh naher den menshen ist" many
> many times.
In fact it is the one phrase of all the delightful enlightening
>
conversations I had with the older german Physicist who took me under his
> wing and
whom I admire to this day. Somehow I added an umlaut in there.
>
> BTW Jens I
am tempted to post this to the list, I think many people mght
> find it
interesting, but I can't find enough beat relatedness there. There
> is here beat
life style relationship, but not literary. Beat lifestyle
> because Karl
while far from lving the beat life, has nevertheless shown me
> how not to
judge things by prevalent unthinking standards, to look for the
> pearls in
any wreckage, etc.. He was also serving for me as a model of how a
> person can
succeed to live a life in the midst of insanity.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:33:31 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: delete ALL messages from mc today
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
part three sucks
sorry for
bandwidth
am leaving for
poetry group in which i can wrestle with my demons and
leave beat-l for
beats.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:56:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: KRUMMX <KRUMMX@AOL.COM>
Subject: writings and all that good stuff
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i guess this is a
reply question to the guy talking about the digital
revolution
but its
asked to all of you
Is anyone out
there willling to colaberate on stories etc and
exchange works
and possibly get some sort of BEAT-L publication going around
jus wondering
seAn
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by skycorp.skynet.be id
WAA17702
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:12:29 +0100
Reply-To: thomas.van.moortel@skynet.be
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ed Rush <thomas.van.moortel@SKYNET.BE>
Organization:
Watching Windows
Subject: Re: writings and all that good stuff
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
KRUMMX wrote:
>
> i guess this
is a reply question to the guy talking about the digital
> revolution
> but its
asked to all of you
> Is anyone
out there willling to colaberate on stories etc and
> exchange
works and possibly get some sort of BEAT-L publication going around
>
> jus
wondering
>
> seAn
Well seAn,
personally I believe the written word has to be promoted
in any way
possible, remember 'Television, The Drug of a Nation'?
And there is such
a thing as a 'Delete' button available on our
computers, delete
at will is the motto. I do not know what
the
sentiments about
this of the list-owner are, personally I believe
some of the
prose/poetry list-members write ánd post, is ONE of
the things that
make this list worthwile for me. TALK
HARD!
Sincerely, Thomas
> L'important
c'est pas la chute, c'est la terrissage
-=I've got the
S.F. Blues=-
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
PRE-modern poem (this is a reply to Re: FU*K IRAQ)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802281839.NAA27733@admin.con2.com>
References:
the wooden table
the wooden guns
HOWL
H-O-W-L
what are u f******?
what are u hammering?
-------
Rinaldo
28feb98
-----------------------------------------------------------
february 16,1998
TIMES the weekly newsmagazine writes:
IMAGES - TIME
FEBRUARY 16, 1998 PAGE 16
"An Accident
Waiting to Happen" written by --Kate Noble
At memorial
service in the Dolomite village of Cavalese the
Rev. Lorenzo
Casarotti declared, "The skies are not for the
most powerful or
the most aggressive, they are for everyone
Today there are
20 people crying out against those who took
over our
skies." The 20 were passengers killed when an Amer
ican military jet
sliced through the supporting cable of th
e ski lift they
were taking from the village to the slopes
of Monte Cermis.
The victims came from Germany, Belgium, It
aly, Poland,
Austria and Holland. It appeared that the EA-6
B Prowler
aircraft, on U.S. Marine training exercise from i
ts base at
Aviano, 90 km from Cavalese, severed the cable w
ith its tail fin.
The pilot was Captain Richard Ashby, 30,
of Mission Viejo,
Calif., who, with his crew, withheld comm
ent on the
incident. Italian Defense Minister Beniamino And
reatta asserted
that the aircraft had been fluing as much 9
km off course and
lower that its authorized altitude, an al
legation denied
by U.S. officials. Cavalese resident Renzo
Alegretti spoke
for many:"Everyone hates how they
fly thro
ugh here at
supersonic speeds. They are crazy, completly ir
responsible. It
was an accident waiting to happen."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sat, 28 Feb 1998
GYENIS wrote:
>>FU*CK
IRAQ
>>____________
>>
>>FU*CK THE
WORLD
>> I WANT TO GET OFF
>>
>>FU*CK THE
WORLD
>> I WANT TO GET ON
>>
>>FU*CK THE
WORLD
>> I WANT TO GET FU*CKED
>>
>>FU*CK THE
WORLD
>> I CAN'T GET FU*CKED
>>CAUSE
AFTER ALL
>> I AIN'T THE FU*CKEN PRESIDENT
>>
>>SO NOW I
SAY
>> FU*CK IRAQ
>>
>>AND I'LL
FU*CK THE REST OF THE WORLD
>> LATER....
>>
>>
Sara Feustle
says:
>Well, Gyenis,
er... um... I'm glad my message from a long time ago inspired
>you. *grin* I
especially like the "FUCK THE WORLD" part. --Sara
Sat, 28 Feb 1998
Jeffrey Perchuk wrote:
>
>No comment
other than.....well said, Attila. My thoughts exactly!
>
>
>
>
Jeff Perchuk
__________________________________________________________(1)____
(1)
Jens Moellenhoff
writes:
>every e-mail
is a cutup of thoughts, a get-together of different
>thoughts and
cultures, every webpage is a source for cutups
_________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:39:52 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sat, 28
Feb 1998 23:28:16...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:28:16 +0100 with subject "PRE-modern
poem (this is a
reply to Re: FU*K IRAQ)" has been
successfully distributed
to the BEAT-L
list (248 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:45:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: a marlene poem. delete if you so please.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A quarter shot of
vodka
and a
warm place to sleep
i like your half-smiles
and blue bandana
the way you crawl up next to me
like a seduction
your crooning
leaning
red mouth moon moves
i like to catch you
making love to the jukebox
soaking in pink yellow nightlights
fiddling with the strap
of your
worn-in green tank top
and pretending
i don't notice
You bubble in my mouth like soda fizz
lemom lime
100 proof
tying cherry stems
and
mixing the aftertaste
You make me lose control and it's nice
hazy-green-soft-buzz
pool tables and lesbians
blue-grass and mixed drinks
cushioned stools
disco lights
a crowd of five to cheer us on
and
it's trip-dip-drip-dance all
night long
with salt and sweet
curling my senses
making me laugh
out loud
high pitched gurgled tipsy
crazy wild wild laughs
I like you drunk
swollen emotions
nervous faces
bitten lips
broken cloves
how you'd like to cuddle up and make me
smile again
how we play and hide and dance and smoke
and love
Let's feed our addictions
and
try not to worry
revel in the blue-green cologne comfort
scent of eachother
get lost in the easy taste of a good
friend
Let's never sober up
we can make excuses tomorrow
tonight
let's
down shots and eat popcorn
giggle at middle-aged drag-queen
bartenders
and never go home as we
wonder about Charlene
at 2am
in dowtown
New Orleans.
~~ by marlene
2-6-98 1:59am
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:50:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: a suggestion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i propose we all
read something together and discuss. we haven't done that in
awhile. how about
sunflower sutra? thats one of my favorites.
perhaps the
subterraneans.(thats what i'm reading now)
i dunno. just a
suggestion.
any takers?
~~marlene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gargan@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:27:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: william gargan
<gargan@worldnet.att.net>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Micheline
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Gerry, thanks for posting the news of
Micheline's death. He was a great
poet. I bought the following broadside from him at
a Beat reading years
ago at the
Village Gate, NYC.
Poem
Genius is a
ragged lion
holding sunlight in his hands
Friend of outlaw,
rare grotesque
Aone he flies with eyes of eagles
Lunatic
Ape,
Angel
Demon
Fiend
Torn and spit
upon by cowards
he walks with angels and despair
Genius, poet
ragged lion
holding sunlight in his hands
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:51:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: mc pome #2/25/98
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Marie
I extend to you my deepest sympathy for
the loss you have suffered.
Which perhaps
mean jack- since we dont really know one another. But... that is
a beautiful poem
that you wrote- as have been all of the poems that you have
posted. Still...
I can relate to the loss of a father that was lost long ago..
happened to me.
Doesnt make it any easier- or less painful.
My spritual beliefs are so convoluted
right now- that I could never
offer any silly
advice in that area- but.. i feel that you know where thats
at.
What i am trying to say- my thoughts
and prayers are with you.. and
yours
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:09:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jack Micheline
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It is sort of depressing
that it is the death of yet another beat that moves
me to post.
My only memory of
Jack was from the NYU Beat conference in 1994, the one the
year before the
big blowup.
Jack was a tall
man who was very conspicious. I had no
idea who he was until
the poetry
reading in the Loeb Center, one of the evenings. I thought Jack
stole the
show. He was passionate and evocative of
a long past time of rivers
of red wine on
skid row. He also seemed somehow
uncorruptable and entirely
comfortable with
who he was...the sort of guy that might be dismissed by a
harried commuter
as a a slightly crazy street person at first glance. Of
course, he was
sort of a street person - he embodied that, oh so proudly. I
would have loved
to have known him.
I don't think
Jack was ever published by any other than the smallest of small
presses. He deserved to be better known although I'm
not sure he wanted that.
In any case, his
poetry was truly, to borrow an image from Allen Ginsberg, a
tall sunflower
amidst the rough world of the streets.
San Francisco, the most
"beat"
of the cities, is much less beat tonight without Jack.
Howard Park
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:37:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Freight Train Dream #333
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Sitting
punching keys
viewing roddy
piper movie
hearing freight
train whistle
blocks from new
crib
dream
of bobbie's
dream
while riding on a
train going
west
i search for the
long lost friends
i had
and where they've
gone
and find
so many through
this machine
that my fingers
type
and type
across America
and across the
oceans
an America
so different from
Allen's
and yet so much
the same
an America in
which
the pride of the
pledge of allegiance
REQUIRES
belief in the
right to read
and believe in
Karl Marx
and the Marx
brothers
and sing
the songs of Joe
Hill
if one wants to
on a Saturday night
or dream the
dreams
of Apple Pie
and Jack Kerouac
prowling
Davenport Iowa
as I did so many
times
and wake
the wakefulness
of the dreamer of
dreams
back in my new
crib
in a place
at the center
of this pattern
we call America.
david rhaesa
2-26-1998
10:39 p.m. CT
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[151.198.86.144]
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:12:59 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: !!Warning!!Expunge at your
leisure!!Warning!!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The
Soughingleaves
Light...
(-?)Sound
hits me from
aways away,
(i can't hit the
awries)
it's laughter and
winded chitters.
The bogs are too
much for my platinuMud feet,,,
"Lo! there's a large root up yonder!"
"And a trunk
spitting
leave(')s
beyond."
can't quite spit the
leaves beyond,
over the obvious
oblong
(in the sphere
(of course) )
I Can't Stand To
See Asymmetrious Curvations,
'neath the moon
and above the
arck
i can't make the
in-between
split the end in
the middle
Snortin 'ole Port
an' guzzlin that
Coke
"An' that
there'z a Vitreous
an' stagnant
lake."
with a sidewinded
smile
and an hidroneous
pride
"I'll stick
to it."
"I'll get
those leaves over one day."
by the Al
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
JAA03041
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:18:47 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: mc has not left the building
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
one of the
reasons i have been so dogged in my endless rewrites of this
trilogy is that i
grew up relating to the beats both to them, and in
relation to their
children, left behind with mothers, whoever, while
they took to the
road.
i also am aware
that this is not a poetry list. so, i am asking anyone
here who has an
interest in reading any further poems to please contact
me at
country@sover.net and i will attempt to cc: further writings not
directly related
to the beats. but since i started this one, rejected
it, picked it
back up, soothed and smoothed out the wrinkles, i will end
public pomes with
this final draft:
my father's
trilogy
one:
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
(restrained, and
wheel chair bound),
slack-jawed into the cameras lens
oblivious, the shutter snaps
a photo of
his consciousness-
a
porch light
growing dim.
just when i thought it safe,
old memories attack
he was mostly vacant then,
coming home, if at all,
long past supper time
(trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in,
turning back on mother's rage
on way out) again.
my father was a tin man,
a traveling salesman,
who conned respectability
who shirked responsibility
living a separate life in bars
on
road,
to keep him family-free.
"if had my life to live again,
I'd never have been a family man"
(thus annihilating me).
the last time i saw my father
was four years ago, or more.
we fought -
over what, i cant recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking the ignition key,
was stuck,
locked up,
and so succumbed once more.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid his head
upon my lap
sparking memories of forgotten past,
that further distance wrought.
estranged all these past years
(i moved up north
he, south)-
both thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo -except me-
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always in billfold
snapshots of my brother,
mom, and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now there's nothing left,
no connection,
dislocation,
my silent
shatteringscreams within-
and the urge to flee.
two:
my father's billfold
delivered to my door today
were the photos from his wife:
the ones he kept in all billfolds
he carried all his life.
my
father can't remember
-if he ever had a billfold-
-if he ever had a family-
- a son, a wife, or me.
oh, the irony:
just as living now in dying,
he was always absentee.
the photos - cracked and stained,
faded with sweat and aged
by the all the years
of his life,
black and white now sepia:
me at five
my brother at eight
and mom, his dead wife.
as i look at me looking up at me
i can barely remember this child
but
the huge brown eyes are mine:
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
forever frozen in time.
i so adored my dad,
and had so little of him-
yet
suddenly i see
that always he had me-
just like a paper doll,
inhabiting his billfold
with his paper family.
with me in his billfold,
we sat in countless bars,
in his way together:
he forever drinking
me forever hopeful,
me forever frozen, me forever five.
three:
2/25/98
today i received
a telephone call:
my father died
today.
again, i alone in
the family,
felt he was
so far apart from
me.
yet like his
billfold daughter,
we were together
in our own strange way:
(2/22 is my birthday)
which, if you
bend the astral rules,
makes us both Pisces:
me in birth-
he in death.
i don't know what
to make of that.
(not being one to place much stock
in such charts),
or even
anniversaries:
but,
this is one i
cannot stop
from
piercing to the core of me.
i am stunned at
the depth of my grief,
having told
myself i lost him long ago:
while i was growing up,
when he was growing old,
(his mind had
left, his body refused to go).
but the pain in
my heart tells me this is not so,
now that he has
finally left,
yet i am
suspended in my disbelief
as we all await
the return of his ashes
from a southern state.
(c)marie
countryman, feb 22-28, 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
JAA06745
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:38:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the last third
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
of course, too
hasty with the send button. posted wrong last third.
apologies. and
this is the last pome to go out indiscriminately to a
list devoted to
beat lit. mc
three:
2/25/98
today i received
a telephone call:
my father died
today.
again, alone in the family,
up north,
i felt his great
distance from me.
yet like his
billfold daughter,
we were together
in our own strange way:
(2/22 is my birthday)
which, if you
bend the astral rules,
makes us both Pisces:
me in birth-
he in death.
i don't know what
to make of that.
(not being one to place much stock
in such charts),
or even
anniversaries:
but,
this is one i
cannot stop
from
piercing to the core of me.
i am stunned at
the depth of my grief,
having told
myself i lost him long ago:
while i was growing up,
when he was growing old,
(his mind had
left, his body refused to go).
but the pain in
my heart tells me this is not so,
now that he has
finally left,
never to return,
however late
as we all await
the return of his ashes
from a southern state.
(c)marie
countryman, feb 22-28, 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cosmic@pop3.clark.net
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:33:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Kerouac Chronology
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In honor of
Kerouac's 76th birthday anniversary (3/12) the Cosmic Baseball
Association has
posted a Jack Kerouac Chronology. There
are many
knowledgeable
members on this list and we would appreciate it if you would
contribute any
additional dates to this on-going project.
Also, for those
that can check it
out, any corrections or comments you might have regarding
the chronology
will also be appreciated.
For those with
access to the World Wide Web, the Kerouac Chronology is at URL:
http://www.clark.net/pub/cosmic/jkchrono.html
Regards,
Andrew Lampert
cosmic@clark.net
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:45:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@CALCNA.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: RELEASED: i do not know this story/
boneyard: a suite
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
pamela george was
a native woman. she was picked up, as a prostitute, by 2
white young men
and when she refused to "service" both of them at once -
they murdered her
and dumped her body in the next province. the 2 men both
admitted their
crime when the trial went to court - the judge however
recommended that
the members of the jury should consider the
"promising
futures" of the 2 muderers when determining their sentence.
the 2 men recieved a slap on the wrist.
I DO NOT KNOW
THIS STORY / BONEYARD: A SUITE, the latest release from
HOUSE PRESS is a
perfomance poem & reply to this case and perception of
natives,
women and their
stories. released in conjunction with the University of
Calgary's Grad
Students In Tension Conference - I DO NOT KNOW THIS STORY /
BONEYEARD: A
SUITE (by tjsnow, cjfyffe, courtney thompson, shereen tuomi,
ian samuels and
jonathon c, wilcke with arrangement and art by derek
beaulieu) is
released in an edition of 50
numbered copies -
watermarked bamboo laid paper pages, handprinted 3
colour linoblock
covers on jute stock & handbound.
copies are $15.00
each including shipping and handling. please contact
House Press at:
dabeauli@calna.ab.ca or
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
for more
information.
thanks
derek beaulieu
House Press
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:33:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Freight Train Dream #333
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
lovely piece,
david. i've missed your posts.
as usual, you all
move me. patricia and marie and david.
sigh...
~~marlene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:39:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: KRUMMX <KRUMMX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: writings and all that good stuff
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ok so heres some
of my poetry attached to the mail
seAn
WORDS SCRIBBLED ON PAPER
I. Malevolent Weakness
A praise of nothingness is what I offer
you
A rejection of the nothingness that was
something
I say everything I think
I speak nothing I say
No one heres what i speak
No one wants to anymore
Physical appearences have gotten in the
way
Mental appearences are not there cause
they say so
Try to make me what Im not
Watch the malevikent ones they will never
survive
But their weak ones alway seem to get out
alive
They find it dead in the upper room
Quitting will bring us all doom
Homicide is a darker side to suicide
Everyone you hate is the darker side
Others become the suicide
They are all lost because I wasnt found
They loved someone that made them hate
everyone else
An imortal wants to die but cant
A mortal wants to live but cant
The less you have something the more you
need it
The more you have of it you cant stand
Would you ever stand or would you rather
fall
Who will
your life belong to
The one who is meant to die
Or the weak one who always survives
II. CROSS BEARER
Respect is lost for you and your group
Liars you have made us
A betrayal to us for society
Does our crucificication begin now
YOURE so religious are you not
Killing for a GOD
Who is against killing
Getting revenge for what we did
When we saught revenge ourselves
We end up bearing the same cross you wear
Doesnt life always work out perfect like
this
Are we meant for this to happen to us
Are we big enough rejects that we get
popular
Bury me in this earth before that day
Its shame would kill me
Death is better than a bad life
Bad lifes are perfect
Popular are worse lives
GOOD IS EVIL
And it is corupt
For you have to trust in it when you dont
want to
Evil is not good
We all live so why do we not all die
Illeteriacy is the only way to understand
the words
Words that the cross bearer shall speak
III. IMORALITY
If Luicifer fell what makes us not able to
He was a servant from another world
We were servants of the weakness of man
But he burns in HELL
Were stuck living the good life
Our aquantinces want the HELL in life
They cant handle it
Home is where the HELL is and if they cant
stand home
How will they stand the unbearable HELL
This darkness of the soul
It becomes the light of an evil
Society can not change this true nature of
the soul
At least not in the ones that society
ignores
Those become the socially weak ones
Others are malevolent in society
These weaker will always survive
They have one that was even weaker
physically to follow
He bore the worst pain so no one would
have to
Yet others want the pain that they are not
prepared for
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:40:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
mc has not left the building
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
marie my dear,
it seems like
you've inspired the lot of us. strange how we all post our
poetry one after
another. i personally don't mind it. in fact, i look forward
to it. seems beat
to me. and the poetry soothes me as this air of death chokes
us. i say, keep
it coming.
~~marlene
In a message
dated 98-03-01 09:23:40 EST, you write:
<< one of
the reasons i have been so dogged in my endless rewrites of this
trilogy is that i grew up relating to the
beats both to them, and in
relation to their children, left behind with
mothers, whoever, while
they took to the road.
i also am aware that this is not a poetry
list. so, i am asking anyone
here who has an interest in reading any
further poems to please contact
me at country@sover.net and i will attempt to
cc: further writings not
directly related to the beats. but since i
started this one, rejected
it, picked it back up, soothed and smoothed
out the wrinkles, i will end
public pomes with this final draft:
>>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:01:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Kerouac/Reich at the New School for
Social Research?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone know
if Kerouac took any classes with
Reich at the New
School for Social Research? I'm not
exactly clear on
the dates Kerouac went there, but
if I'm correct, I
believe Reich taught there for a few years in
the late 1930's,
early 1940's. The reason for this
question
is I have been
reading Reich's _The Murder of Christ_ (Toronto:
Noonday Press,
1953) and he is talking about sin and "man" being
stuck in the
"trap" of his emotional and character structure.
Reich brings up a
similar view of "IT" that Kerouac
brings up in
_OTR_, and states:
Jesus knew that children have
"IT." He loved children
and he was childlike himself; knowing
and yet naive;
trusting and yet cautious; streaming
with love and
kindness, and yet able to hit hard;
gentle and yet strong,
just as the child of the future
is. This is not idealization.
We are fully aware of the fact that the
least bit of idealization
of these children would amount to
looking at reality
through a mirror where it cannot be
grasped. (p. 18)
I could go on
with a few other parallels, but I'm procrastinating
at the moment
(paper on "Luther's Social Ethics Today" is due
tomorrow) and
don't have the time.
Just thought
someone might be interested in continuing
this thread?
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:00:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: "American Pop"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Just watching a
video-promo-copy of the animated film
"American
Pop" by Ralph Bakshi and there was a
coffee-house
scene with a "hipster" smoking a
joint reciting
"Howl." As well as a
"Kerouac" car ride
a la _OTR_ with
jazz and a "Brando" voice coming from
the car saying,
"I've been on the road for 6 months."
m
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:16:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Ginsberg, Burroughs burials
Comments: To:
Mark Johnson <ninmar@mindspring.com>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think I read in
the paper that AG was in fact, cremated and his ashes
scattered, (in
the East? maybe?)
On Sun, 1 Mar
1998, Mark Johnson wrote:
> Hi all. Does anyone on the list know for sure where
Ginsberg and/or
> Burroughs
are buried? I would assume the former in
NYC and the latter
> in Lawrence,
KS. or thereabouts. Seems I read where
Ginsberg was
> cremated and
the ashes scattered somewhere. Any
clues? Mark J
>
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:08:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy B Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: America-
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have to analyze
the poem "America" but I need some help. Could someone
please
backchannel me if you are willing to help? I know that someone on
the list is also
doing this but I forget what his (your) name is, so
sorry!
~Nancy
********Had we a
place to stand upon, we might raise the
world.--Archimedes*********
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:15:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Stephen Eickele Voss
<svoss@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: America-
Comments: To:
Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy,
I honestly don't
mean this as a plug for my webpage, but if you want to
hear ginsberg
reading the poem, you can go to www.beatcafe.com, and go to
the spoken word
section. As far as analyzing the poem,
that's not
something I've
ever been particularly adept at, but I wish you luck in
your pursuit.
-Steve voss
www.beatcafe.com
On Sun, 1 Mar
1998, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:
> I have to
analyze the poem "America" but I need some help. Could someone
> please
backchannel me if you are willing to help? I know that someone on
> the list is also
doing this but I forget what his (your) name is, so
> sorry!
> ~Nancy
>
> ********Had
we a place to stand upon, we might raise the
>
world.--Archimedes*********
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:26:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Stephen Eickele Voss
<svoss@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: My apologies.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
That message was
only supposed to go to Nancy, sorry to clog up people's
mailboxes even
more.
-Steve Voss
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:07:00 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Jack Micheline Memorial
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello Beat-L
friends: March 1, 1998
For those of you in the San Francisco
Bay Area, there will be a
memorial to Jack
Micheline at the nameless church (how appropriate) on the
corner of Camp
St. and Guerrero St. in San Francisco, on Tuesday evening
March 3--doors
open at 7PM. Food and readings begin at
8PM. In Jack's
spirit it is open
to everyone. Jack's son, Vincent
Silvear, will be
present, as will
his publisher Matt Gonzalez, and a good portion of the San
Francisco
literary community--hopefully Ferlinghetti too.
I look forward to seeing you there.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:47:28 -0800
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg, Burroughs burials
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi all. Does anyone on the list know for sure where
Ginsberg and/or
Burroughs are
buried? I would assume the former in NYC
and the latter
in Lawrence, KS.
or thereabouts. Seems I read where
Ginsberg was
cremated and the
ashes scattered somewhere. Any
clues? Mark J
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:56:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg, Burroughs burials
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-03-01 19:18:15 EST, you write:
> I think I
read in the paper that AG was in fact, cremated and his ashes
> scattered, (in the East? maybe?)
>
I believe that
half of AG's ashes were burried w/ his father in Newark, NJ.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:13:46 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: RELEASED: i do not know this story/
boneyard: a suite
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi Derek,
I didn't mail you
that 20 dollar check because if I had it would have cost
me another
fifteen for a a bounced check. It's ok
now though. If you still
have it please
confirm and I will mail it to you immediately
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From: Derek A.
Beaulieu <dabeauli@CALCNA.AB.CA>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sunday,
March 01, 1998 9:01 AM
Subject:
RELEASED: i do not know this story/ boneyard: a suite
>pamela george
was a native woman. she was picked up, as a prostitute, by 2
>white young
men and when she refused to "service" both of them at once -
>they murdered
her and dumped her body in the next province. the 2 men both
>admitted
their crime when the trial went to court - the judge however
>recommended
that the members of the jury should consider the
>"promising
futures" of the 2 muderers when determining their sentence.
> the 2 men recieved a slap on the wrist.
>
>I DO NOT KNOW
THIS STORY / BONEYARD: A SUITE, the latest release from
>HOUSE PRESS
is a perfomance poem & reply to this case and perception of
>natives,
>women and
their stories. released in conjunction with the University of
>Calgary's
Grad Students In Tension Conference - I DO NOT KNOW THIS STORY /
>BONEYEARD: A
SUITE (by tjsnow, cjfyffe, courtney thompson, shereen tuomi,
>ian samuels
and jonathon c, wilcke with arrangement and art by derek
>beaulieu) is
released in an edition of 50
>numbered
copies - watermarked bamboo laid paper pages, handprinted 3
>colour
linoblock covers on jute stock & handbound.
>copies are
$15.00 each including shipping and handling. please contact
>House Press
at:
>
>dabeauli@calna.ab.ca or
>dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
>
>for more
information.
>thanks
>derek
beaulieu
>House Press
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:21:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Freight Train Dream #333
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
David,
I place things on
my desk as they arrive. Piles form, messes everywhere,
but slowly I keep
pluggng away at the daily work and taking things off the
piles.
Something new
arrives--I slip in under a stack, slowly it emerges; however,
I'm troubled
about the material you sent me. I can't sem to putmy hand on
it. Nothing has
left my office. It'shere, but I'mnot sure what form it is
in. Did you send
me a manuscript, or did you send thematerial on a disk?
I'm very troubled
about this and am so backed up I can't stop to slowlytake
my office appart.
I want tofind it.
Can youhelp me by teling me what I'm looking for?
Peace,
joe
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:23:16 -0500
Reply-To: "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "D. Patrick Hornberger"
<"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>
Organization:
EASTWIND PUBLISHING
Subject: Re: List Guidelines, or the lack thereof
-Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ANDREW CHRISTENSEN
wrote:
>
> as the list
owner, you may be able to put another
> matter to
rest.
>
> How do I get
off the list?
>
> I have tried
several times . . . . Four times.
> I tried both
"list" addresses. It hasn't
worked.
>
> Please help.
>
> thanks.
YES How does one
get off the list???
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats and the digital revolution
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01bd4406$1b6469e0$LocalHost@---->
References:
Yang wrote:
>I think so
too.
>call yourself
net beat, a very nice name.
Politics and
Cultural Studies in Interasia
Interview with
Kuan-Hsing Chen
By Geert Lovink
Taipei, december
20, 1997
[excerpt]
Geert Lovink: How
would you describe the Internet generation? People
seem to use e-mail and there are
WWW-adresses being
advertized here and there. But there is
no cyber-culture
yet, at least it is not visible.
Kuan-Hsing Chen:
The commercial Internet is not as big as elsewhere. It
is still largely depending on the
academic
infrastructure. Internet is a crystal
light of society:
those with more power and resources
will have a bigger
space. The lesbian groups are an
exception, not the
gays, by the way. The younger
generation of feminists
are making an active use of the Net,
mainly because of
the commodification of queer identity.
These are writers
with cultural capital and names.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:13:14 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Mon, 02
Mar 1998 20:02:11...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:02:11 +0100
with subject "Re: Beats
and the digital
revolution" has been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (253
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:02:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
Subject: For the WSB bibliography
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A little Black
book, one one side English, and then flip it over, the same
thing in German.
Here are the title Pages:
William Burroughs
"Electronic
Revolution"
Expanded Media
Editions
c. 1970, 1971,
und 1976 by WIlliam S. Burroughs
All rights
reserved.
9th edition 1996
Expanded Media
Editions
Postfach 190 136
D-53037 Bonn
Printed by
Koninklijke Wvhrmann bv, Zutphen
William Burroughs
"Die
elektronische Revolution"
Expanded Media
Editions
c. 1970, 1971,
und 1976 by WIlliam S. Burroughs
Alle deutschen
Rechte bei EME
\bersetzt von
Carl Weissner
9. Auflage 1996
Expanded Media
Editions
Postfach 190 136
53037 Bonn
Cover- Vorlage
von Chris Kohlhvfer
Autorenphoto von
Brion Gysin
Gesamtherstellung:
Koninklijke Wvhrmann bv, Zutphen
For whatever
that's worth.
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:10:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sorted <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: burroughs.net
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hello all.
there is an alpha
version of burroughs.net now up. not everything is fully
operational yet,
and the design of the secondary pages will most likely be
changed.
but the full
bibliography is back up, although it is in dire need of some
updating...
i'd appreciate any
suggestions on content, etc...
also, check out
this month's issue of 'Raygun'. article about william layed
out in his
scrapbook style.
regards,
-zach
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:18:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lightbulb
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Mr. Gargan,
One of the other
lists to which I subscribe has a sigline at the bottom of
each post giving
unsub directions. No one ever posts
asking how to get off
that list.
To unsub
BEAT-L: Send e-mail to
Listserv@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the body of
the mail type UNSUBSCRIBE BEAT-L
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
JAA13699
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:31:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the last third mc delete at will
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
it's still the
same pome so i'm still within my self
imposed rulles,
but this is for
those of you who have been following my painstaking
progress wit
hthis very difficult subject:
three:
2/25/98
today i received
a telephone call:
my father died
today.
again, estranged from the family,
up here in north
country,
i felt his great
distance from me.
yet like his
billfold daughter,
we were together
in our own strange way:
(2/22 is my birthday)
which, if you
bend the astral rules,
makes us both Pisces:
me in birth-
he in death.
i don't know what
to make of that.
(not being one to place much stock
in such charts),
or even
anniversaries:
but,
this is one
synchronicity i cannot stop
from
piercing to the core of me.
i am stunned at
the depth of my grief,
having told
myself i lost him long ago:
while i was growing up,
when he was growing old,
(his mind had
left, his body refused to go).
but the pain in
my heart tells me this is not so,
now that he has
finally left,
never to return,
however late
as we all await
the delivery of his ashes
from a southern state.
(c)marie
countryman, feb 22-28, 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:16:30 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: discussion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
patricia, since
you bring him so warm and to life for me, i would want to
hear about
'fishing with the old man' -could you perhaps begin with that
for a few minutes
and then move on to the beat community and mourning?
no one i ever
read speaks of your 'william' in the way that you do. it
owuld be a shame
for folks to miss the man in the midst of the legend ...
mc
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> this is a
little late but this evening I will be on a panal to talk
> about
william. On the panel I will be with
David Ohle, James G, Jim
>
McCrary. This is part of a Lawrence
History Class at KU. It will be
> video taped
and played on our little local channel next week. I expect
> to be
"on" for about 5 to 10 minutes, out of a two hour shoot. If you
> were in the
audience what question would you have. I
probably will talk
> either about
fishing with the old man or the beatnet movement that
> helped me so
much to grieve and to continue to discover.
> raise your
hands. I have known about this for
months and am sorry it
> didn't occur
to me until now to post this.
> patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:49:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: SPElias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg, Burroughs burials
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Where's Billy
B...???????
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:04:25 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: discussion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
this is a little
late but this evening I will be on a panal to talk
about
william. On the panel I will be with
David Ohle, James G, Jim
McCrary. This is part of a Lawrence History Class at
KU. It will be
video taped and
played on our little local channel next week. I expect
to be
"on" for about 5 to 10 minutes, out of a two hour shoot. If you
were in the
audience what question would you have. I
probably will talk
either about
fishing with the old man or the beatnet movement that
helped me so much
to grieve and to continue to discover.
raise your
hands. I have known about this for
months and am sorry it
didn't occur to
me until now to post this.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:37:37 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re:
rare wsb books (-> electronic revolution)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I revised my
photo page, making it easier to read and load.
I placed a
scan of Ruski and
Nova Bu. 5 for anyone who is interested.
http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:21:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: Burroughs and the digital revolution
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
here is another
quotation that could strengthen my thesis that burroughs
really was the
godfather of the cyberpunks or cybernauts or cyber-beats
or whatever you
wanna call them/us...
"so we have
the paradox of an author fighting words with words, who
seeks to bring
down the machinery of media control by working within the
bowels of
commercial pop culture. since the release of CALL ME BURROUGHS
[in 1965], the
mass communication systems that he attacked for so long
have mutated, and
their power has been dispersed if not overthrown. it's
tempting to say
that, with the advent of the internet, the reality
studio has indeed
been invaded by millions of cyberspace anarchists."
- barry alfonso,
as read in the
linernotes to the reissue of
CALL ME
BURROUGHS, the old man's first recordings
- jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:56:25 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: forum
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
test
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:58:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac/Reich at the New School for
Social Research?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those
interested, I thought I'd forward this to the
list (with Dan's
permission of course).
Mike
----------------------------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 3
Mar 1998 09:42:35 -0800
>To: "M.
Cakebread" <cake@ionline.net>
>From:
bookem@pacific.net (Dan Barth)
>Subject: Re:
Kerouac, New School, Reich
>
>Mike,
>
>A little
further checking shows that your speculations regarding Reich's
>influence on
Kerouac are right on the money. In 'Naked Angels', John Tytell
>says that
Kerouac "compared himself to Wilhelm Reich, predicting that lke
>Reich he
would die in disgrace, poverty and isolation"[71]. Before that he
>talks about
Burroughs introducing Kerouac and Ginsberg to "books like 'The
>Cancer
Biopathy' by Wilhelm Reich"[39]. Later he reprints part of a letter
>that Ginsberg
wrote to Reich.
>
>In 'Desolate
Angel', Dennis McNally writes: "Many experiences contributed
>to Kerouac's
conception of spontaneous sketching: Neal's letters, the idea
>of
unrestricted orgasm in Reich, . . . "[139]. In 'Jack Kerouak: A
>Biography',
Tom Clark gets more specific. He quotes from a letter Kerouac
>wrote to
Carolyn Cassady in 1952: "for God's sake read and dig Wilhelm
>Reich's
'Function of the Orgasm' before it's too late . . ."[126}. Clark
>goes on for a
couple of pages about Reich's influence on Kerouac, and
>concludes:
"Like almost everything else that came into his life, the
>theories of
Wilhelm Reich had been processed out again as aids to
>writing"[128].(This
with regard to Kerouac's "Essentials of Spontaneous
>Prose"
where he talks about writing "in accordance . . . with laws of
>orgasm"[128].
>
>And finally,
Regina Weinreich, in 'The Spontaneous Poetics of Jack Kerouac'
>devotes
several pages to a discussion of "IT." She says:"Kerouac
enlarges
>on the
meaning of 'IT' by alluding to Wilhelm Reich, whose work Kerouac was
>reading
during the period prior to the writing of 'On the Road'"[54].
>
>Best,
>
>Dan
------------------------------------------------------
On Sun, 1 Mar
1998 13:01:36 -0500, I wrote:
Subject:
Kerouac/Reich at the New School for Social Research?
>Does anyone
know if Kerouac took any classes with
>Reich at the
New School for Social Research? I'm not
>exactly clear
on the dates Kerouac went there, but
>if I'm
correct, I believe Reich taught there for a few years in
>the late
1930's, early 1940's. The reason for
this question
>is I have
been reading Reich's _The Murder of Christ_ (Toronto:
>Noonday
Press, 1953) and he is talking about sin and "man" being
>stuck in the
"trap" of his emotional and character structure.
>Reich brings
up a similar view of "IT" that Kerouac
>brings up in
_OTR_, and states:
>
> Jesus knew that children have
"IT." He loved children
> and he was childlike himself; knowing
and yet naive;
> trusting and yet cautious; streaming with
love and
> kindness, and yet able to hit hard;
gentle and yet strong,
> just as the child of the future
is. This is not idealization.
> We are fully aware of the fact that the
least bit of idealization
> of these children would amount to
looking at reality
> through a mirror where it cannot be
grasped. (p. 18)
>
>I could go on
with a few other parallels, but I'm procrastinating
>at the moment
(paper on "Luther's Social Ethics Today" is due
>tomorrow) and
don't have the time.
>
>Just thought
someone might be interested in continuing
>this thread?
>
>Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 03:38:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jjdorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: rare wsb books (-> electronic
revolution)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thank you for
sharing these photographs. and i want to
hear more about
fishing with
William S. Burroughs.
john j dorfner
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:34:42 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: forum
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
patricia! oh
thanks for telling of the forum, and thanks for telling of the
william that you
knew. so little of that, i agree.
marie
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> I thought
the forum went well. Jim McCrary
moderated. He is a poet
> that has
worked in Burroughs communciations for several years. Then
> James, (in a
flannel shirt) spoke. He gave a good
geographical history
> which
surprised me by the length and then I relized he left a few places
> out. William lived in Lawrence longest of
anywhere. He also spoke of
> the growing
spiritulism and family the enveloped william here, and that
> william
embraced.
> I did speak of the william I knew, the
friend. I also knew him as
> writer and
artist but thought too few people would see him as a human
> rather than
as an intellect/genius type. Wayne
Propst was very
>
restrained. I really love Wayne and know
how he must miss William. He
> and William
were around each other a lot and william was a true mentor
> to him.
> I wish I had said something about
David Ohle. Who as traditional for
> him made
brief remarks. He is a writer and a man
that William, I,
> James, and
Wayne respect. He has a remarkable mind
and imagination and
> talent. The
panel brought out several interesting subject. many key
> ones of course are left out in only a hour. One of the interesting
> ones for me
is who typed which manuscript. Jim typed
my education which
> was dreams
that william would write on a card in the middle of the night
> when
awakening from a dream. David typed the
majority of books created
> during the
Lawrence years.
> One of the aspects spoke of was
Williams absolutely remarkable memory.
> He not only
remember events, literature and little oddities but his
> dreams. The fact that he read incredibly much was
discussed, I wish
> more of the
eccentric breadth of his reading material had been spoken
> of.
> It was fun. We were on after a dry acedemic discussing
the 50's in
> Lawrence
spoke. His Lawrence spoke of acedemic matters and watering
> holes,
ignoring a major flood and politic or social atmosphere. We
> weren't a
dry group. Wayne has got to be one of the liveliest people I
> have ever
known.
> Jim McCrary's wife came up and said
she was glad that I mentioned how
> people
protrayed william as a mysogonist were not people close to him.
> I talked about the period of time when
I was getting to know William.
> How people
would tell me how he hated women and his mysogeny was world
> class. One guy included that William was very polite
but hated women.
> Then one
day, I was sitting with William and i knew we were friends,
> that there
was tender affection between us. I also
realized that those
> experts
weren't ever in the room, the dining room where so much action
> took
place. I trusted my heart. It helped that the most adamant guy
> saying this
to me had an antiwomen and I think also homophobic attitudes
> of the
group. I found William so unprejudiced
that it was a lesson.
>
> Patricia
>
>
http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:37:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Reich
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Joy Walsh has an
essay on k and Reich somewhere in Moody
Street Irregulars. I
f you need the
citation, please email me privately.
I'll check the MSI index I
have at home.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[205.212.125.86]
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:43:30 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: john boggs <jaboggs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: a suggestion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
good idea, count
me in.
>i propose we
all read something together and discuss. we haven't done
that in
>awhile. how
about sunflower sutra? thats one of my favorites.
>perhaps the
subterraneans.(thats what i'm reading now)
>i dunno. just
a suggestion.
>any takers?
>~~marlene
>
-john boggs
----------------------------------------------------
...allegories are so much
lettuce
Don't hide the madness.
-allen ginsberg
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:27:40 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: forum
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I thought the
forum went well. Jim McCrary
moderated. He is a poet
that has worked
in Burroughs communciations for several years. Then
James, (in a
flannel shirt) spoke. He gave a good
geographical history
which surprised
me by the length and then I relized he left a few places
out. William lived in Lawrence longest of
anywhere. He also spoke of
the growing
spiritulism and family the enveloped william here, and that
william embraced.
I did speak of the william I knew, the
friend. I also knew him as
writer and artist
but thought too few people would see him as a human
rather than as an
intellect/genius type. Wayne Propst was
very
restrained. I really love Wayne and know how he must miss
William. He
and William were
around each other a lot and william was a true mentor
to him.
I wish I had said something about David
Ohle. Who as traditional for
him made brief
remarks. He is a writer and a man that
William, I,
James, and Wayne
respect. He has a remarkable mind and
imagination and
talent. The panel
brought out several interesting subject. many key
ones of course are left out in only a hour. One of the interesting
ones for me is
who typed which manuscript. Jim typed my
education which
was dreams that
william would write on a card in the middle of the night
when awakening
from a dream. David typed the majority
of books created
during the
Lawrence years.
One of the aspects spoke of was
Williams absolutely remarkable memory.
He not only
remember events, literature and little oddities but his
dreams. The fact that he read incredibly much was
discussed, I wish
more of the
eccentric breadth of his reading material had been spoken
of.
It was fun. We were on after a dry acedemic discussing
the 50's in
Lawrence spoke.
His Lawrence spoke of acedemic matters and watering
holes, ignoring a
major flood and politic or social atmosphere.
We
weren't a dry
group. Wayne has got to be one of the liveliest people I
have ever known.
Jim McCrary's wife came up and said she
was glad that I mentioned how
people protrayed
william as a mysogonist were not people close to him.
I talked about the period of time when
I was getting to know William.
How people would
tell me how he hated women and his mysogeny was world
class. One guy included that William was very polite
but hated women.
Then one day, I
was sitting with William and i knew we were friends,
that there was
tender affection between us. I also
realized that those
experts weren't
ever in the room, the dining room where so much action
took place. I trusted my heart. It helped that the most adamant guy
saying this to me
had an antiwomen and I think also homophobic attitudes
of the
group. I found William so unprejudiced
that it was a lesson.
Patricia
http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:10:20 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: k, Reich, Gargan
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i got an unknown
domain/server trying to write Bill Gargan privately re.
kerouac and Reich
... bill, if you get this, i'm interested :)
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + - +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:17:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Micheline Memorial A Great Event
Comments: cc:
kenk@efn.org
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To my friends on
the Beat-L: March 4, 1998
Just wanted to report the overwhelming
success of the Jack Micheline
memorial last
night at "the church with no name" in SF--actually a church
being rebuilt on
the site of the original Mission Dolores.
About 500 people
of all ages
turned out, including lots of great writers: Michael McClure,
Harold Norse,
Herbert Gold, Neeli Cherkovski, Floyd Salas, Jack Hirschman,
and there were
messages from Ken Kesey and others who couldn't come in
person. Kush, a SF institution, acted as MC. Many great memorial poems
were written for
Jack, his paintings were up, as well as many photo collages
from various
phases of his career. It was
heartwarming to see that Jack,
who had struggled
as a poor street poet so much of his life, was able to
achieve this
crowning recognition, if only in death--and also it was
heartwarming to
see the power he had, even in death, to bring so many
diverse people
together.
There was a huge wreath of flowers from
Lynda Bukowski, Charles
Bukowski's widow,
and Ferlinghetti has even offered to help get a street in
San Francisco
named for Jack.
I can only say, if you haven't read
him, get a copy of his selected
poems, which is
now in print, called SIXTY SEVEN POEMS FOR DOWNTRODDEN
SAINTS, or look
up some of his great out-of-print works, such as SKINNY
DYNAMITE and POET
OF THE STREETS.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id
TAA19436
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:21:27 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: maturing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
my father's
trilogy
one:
my father's eyes
delivered in the mail today
were photos of my father:
taken by his present wife
in VA hospice, Florida.
empty eyed, he stares,
(restrained, and
wheel chair bound),
slack-jawed into the cameras lens
oblivious, the shutter snaps
a photo of
his consciousness-
a
porch light
growing dim.
just when i thought it safe,
old memories attack
he was mostly vacant then,
coming home, if at all,
long past supper time
(trailing smoke and whiskey fumes
on way in,
turning back on mother's rage
on way out) again.
my father was a tin man,
a traveling salesman,
who conned respectability
who shirked responsibility
living a separate life in bars
on
road,
to keep him family-free.
"if had my life to live again,
I'd never have been a family man"
(annihilating me).
the last time i saw my father
was four years ago, or more.
we fought -
over what, i cant recall-
i locked myself up in my truck
but lacking the ignition key,
was stuck,
and so succumbed once more.
he cried and begged forgiveness,
and as i unlocked the door,
crawling in, he laid his head upon my
lap
sparking memories of forgotten past
that further distance wrought.
estranged all these past years
(i moved up north
he, south)-
both thinking there would be more time
for love unchained
from childhood pain-
(and of course there never was).
now he stares at no one
in this photo,
sent by his wife,
who wrote and asked,
how was it that i didn't i know
he carried always billfold snaps
of my brother,
mom, and me?
my answer, a sigh, a no,
he told so little to me
and now there's nothing left,
no connection,
dislocation,
the end of childhood fantasies.
two:
my father's billfold
delivered to my door today
were the photos from his wife:
the ones he kept in all billfolds
he carried all his life.
my father can't remember
-if he ever had a billfold-
-if he ever had a family-
- a son, a wife, or me.
oh, the irony:
just as living now in dying,
he was always absentee.
the photos - cracked and stained,
faded with sweat and age,
black
and white now sepia:
me at five
my brother at eight
and mom, his dead wife.
as i look at me looking up at me
i can barely remember this child
but
the huge brown eyes are mine:
full of secrets,
full of sadness,
forever frozen in time.
i so adored my dad,
and had so little of him-
yet
suddenly i see
that always he had me-
just like a paper doll,
inhabiting his billfold
with his paper family.
with me in his billfold,
we sat in countless bars,
in his way together:
he forever drinking
me forever hopeful,
forever frozen,
forever five.
three:
2/25/98
today i received
a telephone call:
my father died
today.
again a
disconnection -
(i cannot feel
shared sorrow):
as,ironically we shared the most,
as black sheep of
the family,
and as his
billfold daughter.
we are together
in our own strange way:
(2/22 is my birthday)
which, if you
bend the astral rules,
makes us both Pisces:
me in birth-
he in death.
i don't know what
to make of that.
(not being one to place much stock
in such charts),
or even
anniversaries:
but this
is one
synchronicity i cannot stop
from
piercing to the core of me.
i am stunned at
the depth of my grief,
having told myself
i lost him long ago:
while i was growing up,
when he was growing old,
but the pain in my heart tells me this is
not so,
now that he has
finally left,
never to return,
however late
as we now all
await
the delivery of his ashes
from a southern state.
(c)marie
countryman, feb 22-28, 1998
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:12:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: Forwarded from Al Aronowitz
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Al Aronowitz
asked Bill to forward this to the list so I un-mimed it,
translated it
from from MS Word to ASCII, and uploaded it to Beat-l.
Enjoy.
fb
March 1, 1998
I'm pleased to
tell you how enthusiastically and without
equivocation
legendary performers Richie Havens and The Band's
Rick Danko joined
master musician David Amram, saxophone wizard
Hayes Greenfield
and singer-songwriters Ellis Paul and Christian
Bauman in
volunteering to perform at our tribute to Allen
Ginsberg and his
Beat Generation in the Central Park Bandshell
June 12. The legendary Pete Seeger also has indicated
that he'll
be there.
John Scher, his
staff, Amiri Baraka and I have only just started
to line up
performers for the event, at which you, too, as a
member of THE
ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE, are
cordially
invited to come
up and take a turn at the mike to read, recite or
maybe give a
performance of some kind or maybe just show up to
give a wave and
take a bow. The Central Park Bandshell
accommodates at
least 15,000.
We like to call
the committee's tribute to Allen and his Beat
Generation AN
INTERNATIONAL CONVOCATION OF THE BEST MINDS,
although the
event might also be called A Convention of the
Enlightened.
With an expected
marathon of readers to appear between musical
performances, the
tribute will start Friday, June 12, in New
York's Central
Park Bandshell and will continue Saturday, June
13, in Newark,
N.J., a 13-minute or so train ride away.
In
Newark, committee
chairman Amiri Baraka hopes to be able to
resume the tribute
in New Jersey's new Performing Arts Center.
Within that
ultra-ultra modern structure, commonly called the
PAC, admission
tickets can be sold and a VIP reception can be
held. Further events might possibly take place the
evening of
June 13 in Newark's
Weequahic Park Stadium.
I myself am
witness to the fact that Allen and his Beat
Generation freed
us from the lingering Victorianism which still
imprisoned the
culture, the language and the behavior of the
America in which
I grew up. Too often, tradition
imprisons us in
orthodoxy and
binds us to the past, preventing us from
stepping
into the future.
You can hear it
in the music and you can see it on the stage, in
dance, on TV, in
the movies, in books, magazines, periodicals and
everyday speech
and behavior, Allen and his Beats have really
loosened up our
culture. Allen certainly changed my
life. The
Beats truly were
a force in the ongoing war between candor and
hypocrisy,
between truth and bullshit. Yes, that's
my position.
The Beats helped
enlighten us.
As I said, we
have only just started to round up a cast for the
"show"
at our INTERNATIONAL CONVOCATION OF THE BEST MINDS, but if
other performers
respond with the immediate and unquestioning
"yes"
given by those we've already asked, we feel hopeful that
the tribute will
have a cast which reflects the wide range and
texture of those
influenced by Allen and the Beats.
Among poets,
Andrei Voznesensky faxed me he would come, but that
was when he
thought the tribute was going to be held last August.
Unfortunately,
Lawrence Ferlinghetti told me he couldn't be in
New York because
he'd be in Italy. Michael McClure and
Pete
Hamill said
they'd be in Central Park. From Iceland,
Birgitta
Jonsdottir
promised to come read. From Prague, Gwen
Albert said
she'd try to lead
a delegation. From Colombia, Medellin's
Prometeo Festival
chairman Fernando Rendon said June 12 conflicts
with his own
festival, but he would try to send a representative.
Others I remember
who said they'd be here include Merilene M.
Murphy, president
of Telepoetics, Inc., and Telepoetics/Los
Angeles; Danika
Dinsmore, co-founder and executive director of
Northwest
Spokenword Lab (SPLAB!) in Auburn, WA; Kurt Heintz,
site director of
"This is Telepoetics/Chicago"; Ide Hintze of
Vienna said she'd
come and on and on and on. No, we won't
lack
for poets.
In the beginning,
we asked you to lend us the prestige of your
name to give THE
ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE more clout in
its effort to get
the June 12 date in Central Park, which Elias
Levenson of the
Parks Department marketing staff has been kind
enough to
confirm. Now we ask you to contribute
the prestige of
your name once
again, this time to the lineup of those who will
take a short turn
at the microphone, even if just to take a bow.
We wish to
express our thanks to John Scher and his staff at
Metropolitan
Entertainment Group, concert promoters, who have
been so gung-ho
in volunteering to act as producer of the
tribute,
reflecting the same kind of enthusiasm shown by you in
your reply to our
invitation to become a member of THE ALLEN
GINSBERG MEMORIAL
COMMITTEE. But then, we wouldn't have
written
you in the first
place if we didn't suspect you shared at least
some of our
enthusiasm. A very enthusiastic Ken
Viola of John
Scher's staff
asks that you please let me know as soon as
possible if you
wish to participate in the June 12-13 tribute.
No admission fees
will be collected at the Central Park event,
and we're sure we
can guarantee you a "sellout" crowd.
Just as we have
just started to line up featured entertainers for
the tribute, we
also have just started to round up all the
sponsors
necessary to underwrite the cost of the event and we
appeal for your
help. With no dues or income, THE ALLEN
GINSBERG
MEMORIAL
COMMITTEE is entirely voluntary and spontaneous and has
no treasury. This tribute will come off as an event that
will be
remembered only
with your cooperation.
Best,
Al Aronowitz
Secretary
THE ALLEN GINSBERG
MEMORIAL COMMITTEE
Box 964
Elizabeth, NJ
07208-0964
blackj@bigmagic.com
THE ALLEN
GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE :
Amiri Baraka,
Chairman<BR>
Eugene Brooks,
Honorary Member<BR>
Connie Brooks,
Honorary Member<BR>
Ann Brooks,
Honorary Member<BR>
Edith Ginsberg,
Honorary Member<BR>
George N. Tobia
Jr., Counsel<BR>
John Scher,
Producer<BR>
David Amram,
Robert Frank, Michael McClure, George Plimpton, Aram
Saroyan, Charlie
Rothchild, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Amina Baraka,
Jim Ragan, Alfred
Leslie, Ed Adler, Robert Creeley, Anne Waldman,
Gary Snyder, Yoko
Ono, Ed Sanders, Ann Charters, Robert Viscusi,
Bob Fass, Eric
Drooker, Tuli Kupferberg, Larry Sloman, St. Clair
Bourne, Kinky
Friedman, John Tytell, Chris Felver, Joseph Grant,
John Perry Barlow,
Andrei Voznesensky, Richard Cammarieri,
Jonathan Lim,
Fred McDarrah, Kurt Vonnegut, Rosebud Pettet, John
Zacherle, Barry
Feinstein, David Stanford, Levi Asher, Lillian
Davis, Pete
Hamill, David Greenberg, Danny Schechter, Robert A.
Sobieszek, Gerry Goffin,
Barney Rosset, Hettie Jones, Jerry
Wexler, Jerome
Rothenberg, Danny Shot, Arnold Weinstein, Janine
Vega, Robert
Lavigne, Joel Dorn, Bill Gargan, Jimmy Lyons, Quincy
Troupe, Charley
Plymell, Pamela Beach Plymell, Ed Dorn, Ellis
Paul, Brigid Murnaghan,
Hiro Yamagata, Kevin Moore, George Reed,
Latif (William)
Harris, Dennis Hopper, Johnny Depp, Joyce
Johnson, Brett
Aronowitz Luke, Ray Bremser, Brenda (Bonnie
Bremser) Fraser,
Jules Feiffer, Leonard Cohen, Oscar Janiger,
Kathleen Delaney
Janiger, Paul Krassner, Arthur Perley. Attila
Gyenis, Morris
Dickstein, Taylor Mead, Diane DiPrima, John
Sampas, Gerald
Nicosia, Steve Cannon, John Sinclair, Ted Joans,
Art D'Lugoff,
Ahmet Ertegun, Fernando Rendon, Gloria Cavatal,
Marcus
Williamson, Kenneth Koch, Birgitta Jonsdottir, Hayes
Greenfield,
Merilene Murphy, Peter Hale, Pavel Grushko, Kirill P.
Grushko, Toni
Morrison, John Ashbery, Sam Shepard, Michael Dean
Odin Pollock,
Mary Rudge, Gozo Yoshimasu, Ken Kesey, Ken Babbs,
Jonas Mekas,
Peter Coyote, Ide Hintze, George Krevsky, Dennis
Gould, Bernard
Kops, Irving Rosenthal, Paul Nelson, George
Aguilar, Krishna
Fells, Lucas Gutierrez, Andrew Matovich, Heather
Haley, Jean
Portante, E. Ethelbert Miller, Andrea Thompson, Ken
Sherman, Dave and
Ana Christy, Barbara Read, Theodore Wilentz,
David Gascoyne,
Regina Weinrich, Kevin Ring, Robin Blaser, Carl
Hanni, Ron
Whitehead, Pi-Oh, Philip Salom, Dr. Maya Angelou,
Sharon Levy,
Kathy Acker, Gordon Ball, Bob Holman, Bill Berkson,
Philip Whalen,
Michael Scammell, Karen Kennerly, Charles Potts,
Scott Preston,
Barry Gifford, Galway Kinnell, Robert Peters,
Larry Fagin,
Robert Bove, Theo Dorgan, John Reeves, Vincent
Farnsworth,
Gloria Frym, Gary David, Rita Dove, Larry Winfield,
Natalie Goldberg,
Steve Sanfield, Douglas Brinkley, Vaclav Havel,
Aaron Yamaguchi,
Eithne Strong, Joe McDonald, Kurt Heintz,
Natalie Goldberg,
Robert Lax, Andrei Codrescu, Lee Ranaldo, Pete
Seeger, Hunter
Thompson, Clark Coolidge, Jack Micheline, Joe
Napora, Tom
Robbins, David Hershkovits, John Brandi, Barry Miles,
Jonathan
Williams, Ani DiFranco, Steve Ben Israel, Jack
Hirschman, Richie
Havens, Valery Oisteanu, Hersch Silverman, Ira
Cohen, David
Meltzer, Miguel Agarin, Ben Schafer, Jeremy Pikser,
Christian Bauman,
Jordan Green, Vin Scelza, Sophia, Jann Wenner,
E.L. Doctorow.
Still awaiting
positive responses from the following, all of whom
have been
contacted:
Bob Dylan, John
Eastman, Paul McCartney, Linda McCartney, Neil
Aspinall, Ron
Delsener, George Harrison, John Wieners, Ishmael
Reed, Bruce
Springsteen, Lew Lapham, Howard Stern, Don Imus, Tom
Friedman, Frank
Rich, Sally Grossman, Liz Smith, Richard
Goldstein, Joanne
Kyger, Sara Dylan, Joel Siegal, Andrew Wylie,
Ted Koppel, Cecil
Taylor, Scott Muni, Sterling Lord, Brian
Hamill, Brice
Marden, Jack Newfield, Henry Stern, Carolyn
Cassady, Norman
Mailer, Lisa Phillips, Richard Gere, James
Grauerholz, Jim
Dickson, Ornette Coleman, George Soros, Lita
Hornick, Felipe
Feliciano, Don Allen, Lew Welch, Daisy Aldan,
Barbara Guest,
Gwendolyn Brooks, Ntozake Shange, Larry Rivers,
Archie Shepp,
Odetta Gordon, Jaap Blonk, Michael Horovitz, Miriam
Patchen, Grace
Paley, Peter Orlovsky, Howard Hart, Patti Smith,
Megas, Dirk
Gortler, Bill Morgan, Bono, Rand Ragusa, Lou Reed,
George Herms, ,
Alan Kaufman, Duncan McNaughton, Holiness Dalai
Lama, Jim
Carroll, Michael Stipe, Lenny Kaye, Seamus Heaney,
Cathal
O'Searcaigh, Peter Sirr, John Giorno, John Updike, Maggie
Estep, Thom Gunn,
Annie Liebowitz, Beverly Smith, James Laughlin,
Robert Hunter,
Brother Patrick Hart, Ron Seitz. Christopher
Underwood, Jan
Pinkow, Marco Cassini, Michael Andre, Reetika
Vazirani, Ann
Hollander, Ann Douglas, Matthew Smith, Jerry
Poynton, Ron
Padgett, Ellen Gilchrist, Lionel Ziprin, Gelek
Rintoche, Robert
Pinsky, Nanao Sakaki, Carol Merrill.
Still to be
contacted (Anyone's help in providing a correct
mailing address
for any of the following will be appreciated):
Yevgeny
Yevtushenko, Jose Angel Figueroa, Sarah Wright, Marion
Brown, John Giorno,
Gil Sorentino, Hubert Selby, Mrs. Bob
Kaufman, Michael
Horovitz, Esteban Moore, Gonzalo Rojas, Ersi
Sotiropoulou,
Haroldo de Campos, Tony Harrison, Mazisi Kunene,
Lauri Anderson,
Rickie Lee Jones, Tom Wait, Joe Strummer, J. D.
Salinger.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
peent@cyber2.servtech.com
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:01:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Forwarded from Al Aronowitz
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Still
awaiting positive responses from the following, all of whom
>have been
contacted:
>Bob Dylan,
John Eastman, Paul McCartney, Linda McCartney, Neil
>Aspinall, Ron
Delsener, George Harrison . . . . Lew Welch
What does this
mean?? LEW WELCH!!!!! All of whom have
been contacted? Is
there another
Lew? Have I missed something?
Michael
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 23:42:06 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Artaud: 4 Sep 1896--4 Mar 1948
Comments: To:
Bohemian List <bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Antonin Artaud
died 50 years ago (Mar. 4, 1948) in
Ivry-sur-Seine,
France.
Here's a passage
from an essay by Susan Sontag:
Both in his work and in his life, Artaud
failed. His work includes verse; prose
poems; film scripts; writings on cinema,
painting, and literature; essays, diatribes,
and polemics on the theater; several
plays,
and notes for many unrealized theater
projects, among them an opera; a
historical
novel; a four-part dramatic monologue
written for radio; essays on the peyote
cult of the Tarahumara Indians; radiant
appearances in two great films (Gance's
_Napoleon_ and Dreyer's _The Passion of
Joan of Arc_) and many minor ones; and
hundreds of letters, his most accomplished
"dramatic" form--all of which amount
to
a broken, self-mutilated corpus, a vast
collection of fragments. What he
bequeathed
was not achieved works of art but a
singular presence, a poetics, an
aesthetics
of thought, a theology of culture, and a
phenomenology of suffering.(pp. xix-xx)
_Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings_, ed.
and with an introduction by Susan Sontag
(Berkeley: University of California Press,
1988).
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory Severance morocco@walrus.com
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[149.151.190.53]
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:04:13 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: maturing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi marie,
i haven't been
posting much, but i wanted to tell you how fantastic your
poem is. i've been following your revisions, and i
wanna thank you for
posting them.
best wishes,
Al
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender: philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 23:31:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Kerouac Quarterly update
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
There has been
some very interesting and new links added to Paul Maher's
Kerouac Quarterly
Web site. Complete with a {Credit Your Daddies Homage to
Gerry Nicosia}
and lots of other
info check it out. Here's the link.PC
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page9.html
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail-gw.pacbell.net id
JAA07193
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:47:02 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: fwd:Jack Micheline
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thought the list
might be interested in this piece re: Micheline from former
list member sa
griffin--who orchestrated the wonderful "exploding poem" last
year
j. stauffer
s.a. griffin wrote:
> here is what
I wrote for the April 10th issue of Damaged Goods... let me
> know what
you think. I tried to be honest.
>
>
>
> ONWORD
> S.A. Griffin
>
> "the
spiritual man is mad" Hosea 9:7
>
> There is no
cure for mortality.
>
> We bend the
sacred steel of living with our battered souls, shifting as we
> see fit in
order to belong. The Russian madman laughing at the sky behaved
> like a bit
of paranoid split. Born Silver, Jack Micheline was human, and to
> be human is
contradiction in and of itself. The man with the gray hat and
> khaki's who
peddled his books and paintings from a banged up suitcase, the
> man I knew
was a great performer, could dance the word, wax jazz, had the
> need and
seemed to reach out for the fix of living as he pitched the word.
> As poets, we
often struggle to explain this need as LOVE. We swirl inside
> this
stainless vortex as dark figures on the path. As the glory of moment.
> Jack had the
gift of moment. Called Whitman's wild child, he was also quite
> often, an
almost unbearable pain in the ass, tolerated because he was
> sometimes
capable of pulling daggers out of bleeding rock in the
> subterranean
circus of hope. He had charm, had style. He liked the carnival
> wink of the
con, the nickle/dime hustle, the broads, the bookies and the
> track and
was captivated by the math of beating the odds; we call this
> seduction
luck and try to rehearse it as if it could be owned. He could
> toss a good
hand just to play the fool and was often drunk on bitter wine
> of his own
terrible design yet witnessed the color all around him shouting,
> "beauty
is everywhere Baudelaire." He held imaginary conversations with
> greatness,
pissed in lawyer's shoes and carried arms against the oppressive
> filth of
fuck. He railed at the system and success. It seemed his inner
> child was
raised by wolves. He called himself genius, the ragged lion
> framed with
bold primitive strokes as a cactus imbued with the wondrous
> ability of
spinning images as a sweet balm for the prick of ignorance. He
> was often
the fat Skinny Dynamite of pussy, dick, drink and hung his hat on
> the certain
knowledge that every race must have a winner...
>
> He stopped
ticking on the BART train Friday Febraury 27th sometime just
> before noon
departing San Francisco on his way to Orinda according to the
> obit. Gave
up the ghost somewhere on the track singing, "WACKY DAKY DOO
> DAKY DOO...
WACKY DAKY DOO, DAKY DOO. Hey that's it kid, you got it, now sing
> baby,
sing!" It's a long ride and a fine line crossing over the
> inexplicable
here to there. But yeah man, you got that music, that song,
> yeah baby,
beauty is everywhere... the sound of traffic after midnite. The
> cat asleep
in the lap of the abstract affirmative. The ordinary act of
> survival as
we pull ourselves out of the sack to
mount the day and hump
> the
voluptuous light, any light. Nothing matters anymore. Forgive. Let the
> twisted pain
of hatred pass. Exist outside the burning flesh of the present
> where one
can no longer feel the bitter sting of this glorious hustle.
> Reach no
longer, transcend this swirling wound of humanity and into the
> forever/now.
You've beat the clock baby, time is in your pocket... GONG gong
> GONG gong
GOING going GONE gone GONE MAN, GONE...like, gone! The beat of
> weeping
butterfly. The beat of color. The beat of bleeding sidewalk firm
> with the
purgatory of desire. The sure thing. Beat of feet, of skyline, of
> yes, of go
on over to the better's box and collect your winnings mad Jack
> because myth
is bigger than trees, than the manic asphalt wilderness, than
> the need to
be, to belong.
>
> We will read
him, talk about him and his work, publish him, have a few
> laughs and
remember him for who and what he was: a sometimes cantankerous
> mother
fucker and often a helluva poet and storyteller... a man of his own
> time and
place who by and large seemed to live on his own terms. Can't do
> much better
that that. He was Beat, whatever that was, and it seems that
> when he
performed was maybe the only time he was truly at peace or happy.
> He
lived/loved to work a crowd.
>
> Yes, he was
the real deal as poet, no doubt, you can count on that one up
> to ten. I
would assume that the folks in San Francisco will be mourning
> their
adopted son for some time with their flowers in their hair, beat in
> hand jumping
over the moon. That at least, regionally, he will be elevated
> to some kind
of rock star status. He will be all myth now, much moreso than
> he ever was in
life. He was obviously a friend to many... the broken, the
> broke. Was
Bob Kaufman's pal, A.D. Winans; introduced to the shindig via no
> spit on the
ball Jack Kerouac. Blasted bop jazz poetic with Mingus. Broke
> bread with
Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Bukowski and drank their grape... he built
> bridges to
cross his raging river of red wine and he burned them with a
> take no
prisoners attitude.
>
> There is the
victory of death and the temporary immortality of the word.
>
> Jack
Micheline was a poet.
>
> Daky daky
doo, daky doo... that's it man, you got it!
>
> ... now
sing.
>
> Long live
Harold Goldfinger!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 05:04:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Well said.
Thanks.
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> Dear Gerald,
> I was so happy to read your
posts. When the message was posted about
> visiting the
web site, I thought , should I see what kind of crap they
> put up but
decided not to. I had been so offended by so many of the
> posts Paul
wrote that i decided not to go there any furthere. I found
> his slurs
about DiPrima such as skag, etc. so bizarre that I thought we
> were getting
alcoholic rants. When Paul assured me he
didn't drink i
> thought.
That i would no longer read his posts or support in any way his
> delusion
that I thought of him anything but a crackpot in regard to beat
>
scholarship. His reference to women
associated with the beat women not
> getting any
better than they deserve, etc. is
pitiful. I don't buy the
> coin in any
slot. I shudder to think what his trade
is doing to any
> real
research on Jack.
> Please
ignore the ignoble and continue to place your posts on the list.
> I have to
hope that you will resist responding as you did because those
> school boys
are snickering thinking they bothered you.
The charge of
> pornographer
is the first charge against many of the beats. Truth and
> honesty
discover more than just clits and bunions.
> patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:53:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: SPElias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: forum/on language
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To Pat:
I have read and
enjoyed your posts to this list for many months now. You have
posted many
absolutely excellent descriptions of Mr. B's passing and funeral
rites, helped me
to understand 'bardo' and driven me to tears w/ these...I am
curious...as well
as you knew WSB, you refer to him as 'William"....did no one
call him
'Bill'?...or was he such a respectful character that people never
thought of
shortening his 'name'? You refer to Jim
as jim, but never william
as bill, i'm just curious and slightly confused <3
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:19:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@DRC.COM>
Subject: Stamp Out Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A proposal for a
Kerouac stamp was submitted several years ago and is
still active.
However, it takes a lot of interest from the public and
influential
people to get a stamp design approved. I saw a USPS survey
not to long ago
which asks the public to pick stamp topics to
commemorate the
50's. Guess who was not on the list. If you would like
to see a series
of Beat stamps, start writing to the Postmaster General,
USPS, L'Enfant
Plaza, Washington, D.C. Bug your local post office. Get a
hold of those
surveys and do a write in. Write your congressman and
senator. Getr
your friends and family to do the same.
We have Bugs
Bunny, Richard Nixon, James Dean. It's time for Jack.
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:58:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: forum/on language
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
SPElias wrote:
>
> To Pat:
>
> I have read
and enjoyed your posts to this list for many months now. You have
> posted many
absolutely excellent descriptions of Mr. B's passing and funeral
> rites,
helped me to understand 'bardo' and driven me to tears w/ these...I am
> curious...as
well as you knew WSB, you refer to him as 'William"....did no one
> call him
'Bill'?...or was he such a respectful character that people never
> thought of
shortening his 'name'? You refer to Jim
as jim, but never william
> as
bill, i'm just curious and slightly
confused <3
who is this Pat
you are writing to? Sometimes people
call me Pat. I
have heard
William called Bill by some people, not a lot. I haven't ever
called James G.-
Jim, but I have heard some do that. I
have an habit
of calling people
by the name they use when they introduce themselves.
He would say
William. I certainly repected william
but we were friends,
it wasn't a
professor/student relationship. We visited, ran around
together and yes
dare I say partied together. Another
relationship was
I often had odd
jobs with William Burroughs Communications. In other
words James hired
me to work. My work varied, I kept
house, house sit,
repaired the
roof, found salvage, chauffered,cooked. I was around 7
months pregnant
when they hired David Ohle and I to replace the
backporch
roof. Due to my lumbering state William
insisted that I call
him out when I
went up and down the ladder. Then he
would hold the
ladder
steady. He did not do this for David so
I felt quite nurtured.I
deeply admired
William. I cried the other night when I got home from the
forum but I am
not melancholy. William at times was a
melancholy person
but He spent real
effort to appreciate his life and was brave.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:08:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: SPElias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: forum/on language/WSB
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 98-03-05 08:59:29 EST, you write:
<< He spent
real effort to appreciate his life and was brave. >>
Patricia:
Thank you for another wonderful,
informative post.
S.e.....
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:54:59 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Stamp Out Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Aeronwytru wrote
on 3/5/98
>but what are
you talking about? a jack stamp was issued ages ago, when first
>class still
cost us 29 cents. you can see it on varoius beat websites. are
>you
>talking about
another one?
>
>aeronwy
>
I don't know if
there ever was a stamp issued by the
United States
Postal service with the image of Jack
Kerouac on it.
Maybe there was.
But I would be
wary of beleiving that a Jack Kerouac
stamp was issued
based on seeing an image of a Jack Kerouac
stamp on
"various beat websites".
* * * * | * * * *
| * * * * | * * * * | * * * * |
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Envelope-to:
beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu
X-VMS-To:
IN%"beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu"
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:55:07 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Maconnell
<MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>
Subject: Beat Magnet!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi everyone!
Yesterday I
perused our local 'weird' store for 'weird' items and it
turns out I found
a great thing. I purchased a
refrigerator magnet that
looks like a
paperback cover -- of "Junkie" by William Lee! Well, I
immediately
turned to my decidedly non-literary friend and asked him
if he knew what
it was (of course he didn't). After I
told him he had
to tell me to
calm down as I was just glad and happy to find something
like this.
It's cool and I'm
happy and wondering if anyone else knew these existed?
Take care,
Mary
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:38:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tazmin X <TazminX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a suggestion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ditto
In a message
dated 98-03-04 09:44:08 EST, you write:
<< good
idea, count me in.
>i propose we all read something together
and discuss. we haven't done
that in
>awhile. how about sunflower sutra? thats
one of my favorites.
>perhaps the subterraneans.(thats what i'm
reading now)
>i dunno. just a suggestion.
>any takers?
>~~marlene >>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: rolling
thoughts
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802281839.NAA27733@admin.con2.com>
References:
3 pm railway station
(back home)
march afternoon
a sort of flowering wind
(black sky)
blond hair ()
parkin lot bicycles
cars & bus people
rolling thoughts
(spring)
spring
the 2th invention
after the wheel
3:10 pm bus stop
-------
Rinaldo
05mar98
-------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:05:33 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To the good folk
of the Beat-List: March 5, 1998
I am outraged that the Beat-List
continues to be used as a vehicle
for character
assassination by Phil Chaput and Paul Maher, Jr. Last night
there was a post
from Mr. Chaput, directing you all to read a supposed
"Homage to
Gerry Nicosia" on Maher's web page.
If you went to the web page,
you found a
vicious, lying attack on me, which refers to me, among other
things, as a
pornographer. The person who makes this
charge was convicted
of stealing
thousands of dollars worth of rare books from the University of
Massachusetts,
Lowell's special collections at the Mogan Center, the same
special
collections library from which materials were stolen from my own
MEMORY BABE
archive.
(My supposed pornography, for those who
are interested, is a book
called BUGHOUSE
BLUES, co-authored with a gay friend of mine named Richard
Raff, a
wonderfully witty, brilliant man who was tormented by the need to
live "in the
closet" in Chicago back in the 70's.
The book tells of his
sexual and social
struggles, and in fact he killed himself shortly after we
completed the
book. That his life story is considered
"pornography" by Mr.
Maher and Mr.
Chaput gives you an indication of the caliber of their
character,
especially when one of their close friends is also known to be gay.)
In the past it has been asserted that I
provoked these individuals
into attacking
me. Well, I have said nothing about the
Kerouac Estate or
John Sampas for
the past 5 months. My main recent
posting has been about
the loss of my
dear friend, Beat poet Jack Micheline.
And yet the Beat-List
is now being used
to attack me once again, with the same kind of
below-the-belt,
lying assault that was used twice before.
In addition, Mr.
Maher, Mr.
Chaput's cohort, is filling my email box with private, personal
emails that are
obscene and harassing attacks on me. In
doing so, he may
well be violating
a recent federal law, the Communications Decency Act of 1997.
Mr. Maher has business dealings with
John Sampas, gets most of the
material for his
little Kerouac Quarterly from Sampas.
Mr. Chaput by his
own
acknowledgement is an associate of Mr. Sampas.
I am Jan Kerouac's
literary
executor, and in that capacity am attempting to carry out her legal
fight to recover
and preserve the Jack Kerouac archive, which Mr. Sampas has
been selling off
to dealers and collectors, and which he has so far refused
to place into a
library, contrary to Jack Kerouac's own wishes.
Can anyone fail to see what is really
going on here?
I call upon Mr. Gargan to put an end,
once and for all, to this
vile, vicious use
of the Beat-List for private, financial motivation--to end
the character
assassination attempts against myself.
Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:19:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: maturing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
thanks, al, for
saying this as sometimes i imagine 250 odd souls sneering
"countyman!"
in the best seinfield tradition of "newman!"
also rinaldo i
must be honest here "the lines" are dave matthews lyrics.
but you sure make
me glad i'm here, guys.
i'll be leaving
early tomorow morning and returning twilight time on sunday.
then perhaps it
will have the closure i'm still struggling for (a quartet vs
triology, hmm)
peace and helath
you guys
mc
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> Al wrote:
> >hi
marie,
> >
> >i
haven't been posting much, but i wanted to tell you how fantastic your
> >poem
is. i've been following your revisions,
and i wanna thank you for
> >posting
them.
> >
> >best
wishes,
> >Al
>
> hello
> dear
friends,
>
> i quote Jack
Kerouac
> fragment
from "Mexico City Blues"
> 114th Chorus
> You dont have to worry bouth death,
> Everything you do, is like your hero
> The Sweetest angelic tenor of man
> Wailing sweet bop
> On a front afternoon
>
> my humble
opinion is that
> the poetry
of Marie Countryman is at his best when
> poems does
something of love bout the world, so i
> quote a
marie's poem:
>
>
============================================
> wanna dance?
>
> "i eat
too much
> i drink too
much
> i want too
much
> toooo
much"
> dave mathews
on the cd
> dancing to
my cats,
> want to
dance with alley cats
> whose up?
> who wants to
dance?
> let's get
together,
> spoken word,
music dance our pants off
> (even if you
hate dave, he's the best to dance to , except jerry)
> i want to
dance with stray cats
> alley cats
> dance
> soul flies
out into the cosmos for that brief amoount of time,
> souls meet,
dance, dozey do, return, twirl,
> come down
crashing
> and up again
> dance,
> i want to
dance
> yeaaahhhhhh
> mc
>
============================================
>
> that's best
right when marie is on the jk's poem track,
>
> saluti a
tutti,
> Rinaldo.
> --------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:23:11 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: a suggestion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'll be gone for
several days, also have a pritty good score of suggested
readings in the
past. i hope you guys pick up something and i'll run with it
when
i return. between
muggings of poetry.
mc
M84M79 wrote:
> hi folks,
> alrighty, i
was introduced to a kerouac/ginsberg tutorial that my friends have
> been
orchestrating. last night i was there for the discussion on "sunflower
> sutra."
as a group we came to the conclusion that the sunflower could
> represent
neal cassady. other thoughts were AG's soul, the universal soul. i
> was troubled
with the repetition of locomotive and felt that the imagery was
> strongly
connected to NC. i'm also confused as to why the sunflower imagery is
> so negative
towards the beginning of the piece and it's significance. any
> thoughts,
challenges, suggestions?
> ~~marlene
>
> In a message
dated 3/5/98 4:40:56 PM, you wrote:
>
> >ditto
> >
> >In a
message dated 98-03-04 09:44:08 EST, you write:
> >
> ><<
good idea, count me in.
> >
> > >i
propose we all read something together and discuss. we haven't done
> > that in
> >
>awhile. how about sunflower sutra? thats one of my favorites.
> >
>perhaps the subterranean.(thats what i'm reading now)
> > >i
dunno. just a suggestion.
> > >any
takers?
> >
>~~marlene >>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
maturing
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<19980305010413.7955.qmail@hotmail.com>
References:
Al wrote:
>hi marie,
>
>i haven't
been posting much, but i wanted to tell you how fantastic your
>poem is. i've been following your revisions, and i
wanna thank you for
>posting them.
>
>best wishes,
>Al
hello
dear friends,
i quote Jack
Kerouac
fragment from
"Mexico City Blues"
114th Chorus
You dont have to worry bouth death,
Everything you do, is like your hero
The Sweetest angelic tenor of man
Wailing sweet bop
On a front afternoon
my humble opinion
is that
the poetry of
Marie Countryman is at his best when
poems does
something of love bout the world, so i
quote a marie's
poem:
============================================
wanna dance?
"i eat too
much
i drink too much
i want too much
toooo much"
dave mathews on
the cd
dancing to my
cats,
want to dance
with alley cats
whose up?
who wants to
dance?
let's get
together,
spoken word,
music dance our pants off
(even if you hate
dave, he's the best to dance to , except jerry)
i want to dance
with stray cats
alley cats
dance
soul flies out
into the cosmos for that brief amoount of time,
souls meet,
dance, dozey do, return, twirl,
come down
crashing
and up again
dance,
i want to dance
yeaaahhhhhh
mc
============================================
that's best right
when marie is on the jk's poem track,
saluti a tutti,
Rinaldo.
--------Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:42:15 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)" <LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 05
Mar 1998 19:30:48...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 05 Mar 1998 19:30:48 +0100 with subject "Re:
maturing"
has been successfully distributed to the
BEAT-L list (250
recipients).
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:42:22 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 05
Mar 1998 18:59:28...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 05 Mar 1998 18:59:28 +0100 with subject "rolling
thoughts" has been
successfully distributed to
the BEAT-L list (250
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:54:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Quarterly update (Yawn)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I saw that first
post Chaput sent announced the "interesting and new links"
but chose to
ignore it.
After seeing
Nicosia's post I decided to take a look.
To Gerry I say,
"Don't be
offended Gerry. That page out of the KQ is a mirror to the site
and reflects
nothing more than the image of the person who created it.
Another stretch
added to the road to it's own KO, rather than
KQ."
To Maher I say:
"I'm a
little embarrased that I became angry with you because of your
comment about my
mother. I'm feeling more pity than anger.
I still want to
meet you, and
will. But mostly to get a look at you.
I'm curious. Like I
was when I got my
first microscope when I was a kid on a farm in Northern
Minnesota. The
first thing that comes to mind, reading your coments, was
the scum that
rose to the top of the rain barrel. You remind me of that
scum Maher, the
scum in the rain barrel that always floated to the top--a
position you will
continue to habitat. Right at home and seemingly
comfortable with
the scum"
Tah tah little
man.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:44:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Stamp Out Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
but what are you
talking about? a jack stamp was issued ages ago, when first
class still cost
us 29 cents. you can see it on varoius beat websites. are you
talking about
another one?
aeronwy
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:52:03 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stamp Out Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 03:44 PM
3/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>but what are
you talking about? a jack stamp was issued ages ago, when first
>class still
cost us 29 cents. you can see it on varoius beat websites. are you
>talking about
another one?
>
>aeronwy
>
>
Hee, hee, heee
Levi ought better
begin to worry about being accused of counterfitting.
(Just joking I am
sure you realize).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:01:22 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Gerald,
I was so happy to read your posts. When the message was posted about
visiting the web
site, I thought , should I see what kind of crap they
put up but
decided not to. I had been so offended by so many of the
posts Paul wrote
that i decided not to go there any furthere.
I found
his slurs about
DiPrima such as skag, etc. so bizarre that I thought we
were getting
alcoholic rants. When Paul assured me he
didn't drink i
thought. That i
would no longer read his posts or support in any way his
delusion that I
thought of him anything but a crackpot in regard to beat
scholarship. His reference to women associated with the
beat women not
getting any
better than they deserve, etc. is
pitiful. I don't buy the
coin in any
slot. I shudder to think what his trade
is doing to any
real research on
Jack.
Please ignore the
ignoble and continue to place your posts on the list.
I have to hope
that you will resist responding as you did because those
school boys are
snickering thinking they bothered you.
The charge of
pornographer is
the first charge against many of the beats. Truth and
honesty discover
more than just clits and bunions.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:28:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a suggestion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi folks,
alrighty, i was
introduced to a kerouac/ginsberg tutorial that my friends have
been
orchestrating. last night i was there for the discussion on "sunflower
sutra." as a
group we came to the conclusion that the sunflower could
represent neal
cassady. other thoughts were AG's soul, the universal soul. i
was troubled with
the repetition of locomotive and felt that the imagery was
strongly
connected to NC. i'm also confused as to why the sunflower imagery is
so negative
towards the beginning of the piece and it's significance. any
thoughts,
challenges, suggestions?
~~marlene
In a message
dated 3/5/98 4:40:56 PM, you wrote:
>ditto
>
>In a message
dated 98-03-04 09:44:08 EST, you write:
>
><< good
idea, count me in.
>
> >i
propose we all read something together and discuss. we haven't done
> that in
> >awhile.
how about sunflower sutra? thats one of my favorites.
> >perhaps
the subterranean.(thats what i'm reading now)
> >i dunno.
just a suggestion.
> >any
takers?
>
>~~marlene >>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:00:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Magnet!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
ya, i have the
same one :)
got it up in Woodstock.
--Ginny.
To:
owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Returned
Mail: User Unknown
Cc: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Good evening,
the following
message come to me 3 times,
please what's up?
any idea?
yrs
rinaldo.
-------
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON@iname.com>
From: Mail
Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@iname.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar
1998 13:42:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Returned
Mail: User Unknown
Auto-Submitted:
Auto-generated (failure)
<INSERT
EXPLANATION HERE>
----- The following addresses had permanent
fatal errors -----
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
original message
follows
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:15:08 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 05
Mar 1998 23:03:49...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Thu, 05 Mar 1998 23:03:49 +0100 with subject "Returned
Mail: User
Unknown" has been successfully
distributed to the BEAT-L list
(249 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:18:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Returned Mail: User Unknown
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i have no idea,
but i have gotten it too. it usually comes if your message
couldn't be
distributed, but i got mine at the same time as another message
saying my post
had been successfully distributed, so who knows?
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:50:42 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yeah.
You know, last
time Phil posted the note about the new book I replied that
it seemed like a
backhanded put down of Nicosia and the other biographers.
Phil rplied that
it was just the publishers press release (something that is
not mentioned at
the KQ site) and that this idea of sides was preposterous
and that the
message was solely to let the fact that this new book was
coming out be
known.
But this last
post was appropos of nothing. And it
clearly is simply done
to bother Jerry.
Weird.
At 03:01 PM
3/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Dear Gerald,
> I was so happy to read your posts. When the message was posted about
>visiting the
web site, I thought , should I see what kind of crap they
>put up but
decided not to. I had been so offended by so many of the
>posts Paul
wrote that i decided not to go there any furthere. I found
>his slurs
about DiPrima such as skag, etc. so bizarre that I thought we
>were getting
alcoholic rants. When Paul assured me he
didn't drink i
>thought. That
i would no longer read his posts or support in any way his
>delusion that
I thought of him anything but a crackpot in regard to beat
>scholarship. His reference to women associated with the
beat women not
>getting any
better than they deserve, etc. is
pitiful. I don't buy the
>coin in any
slot. I shudder to think what his trade
is doing to any
>real research
on Jack.
>Please ignore
the ignoble and continue to place your posts on the list.
>I have to
hope that you will resist responding as you did because those
>school boys
are snickering thinking they bothered you.
The charge of
>pornographer
is the first charge against many of the beats. Truth and
>honesty
discover more than just clits and bunions.
>patricia
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:22:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: rare wsb books (-> electronic
revolution)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:37 AM
3/3/1998 -0600, patricia wrote:
>http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html
I found the
picture entitled, "Top of Williams other bookcase in the front
room" of
interest. The picture on the bookcase
says, "It is necessary
to travel. It is not necessary to live. - William Seward
Burroughs"
This is similar
to the prologue in Celine's _Journey to the End of Night_:
"Travel is
useful, it exercises the imagination.
All the rest is
disappoinment and
fatigue. Our journey is entirely
imaginary.
That is its
strength.
It goes from life
to death. People, animals, cities,
things, all
are
imagined. It's a novel, just a
fictitious narrative. Littre
says so, and he's
never wrong.
And besides, in
the first place, anyone can do as much.
You just
have to close
your eyes.
It's on the other
side of life."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sinkovia@wheat.mnsfld.edu (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:52:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aaron Sinkovich
<sinkovia@MNSFLD.EDU>
Subject: Re: a suggestion
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I believe the
locomotive imagery from "Sunflower Sutra" represents the
industrialism-mechanicalism
that has invaded and overrun society from the
time of the
industrial revolution; its great power and influence is
represented in
the locomotive, which I also associate with capitalism. This
industrialism/capitalism
dirties the soul of man (the sunflower) and
corrupts him,
destroys him. There are also associations
between
nature/earth/man&soul
and manmade/mechanical/machine brought on by the
imagery of the
sunflower and the locomotive. ---Aaron
>hi folks,
>alrighty, i
was introduced to a kerouac/ginsberg tutorial that my friends have
>been orchestrating.
last night i was there for the discussion on "sunflower
>sutra."
as a group we came to the conclusion that the sunflower could
>represent
neal cassady. other thoughts were AG's soul, the universal soul. i
>was troubled
with the repetition of locomotive and felt that the imagery was
>strongly
connected to NC. i'm also confused as to why the sunflower imagery is
>so negative
towards the beginning of the piece and it's significance. any
>thoughts,
challenges, suggestions?
>~~marlene
>
>
>In a message
dated 3/5/98 4:40:56 PM, you wrote:
>
>>ditto
>>
>>In a
message dated 98-03-04 09:44:08 EST, you write:
>>
>><<
good idea, count me in.
>>
>> >i
propose we all read something together and discuss. we haven't done
>> that in
>>
>awhile. how about sunflower sutra? thats one of my favorites.
>>
>perhaps the subterranean.(thats what i'm reading now)
>> >i
dunno. just a suggestion.
>> >any
takers?
>>
>~~marlene >>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron F.
Sinkovich
sinkovia@mnsfld.edu
http://mustuweb.mnsfld.edu/users/sinkovia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:55:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 02:50 PM
3/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Yeah.
>
>You know,
last time Phil posted the note about the new book I replied that
>it seemed
like a backhanded put down of Nicosia and the other
biographers.(Very
weird thinking)
>Phil replied
that it was just the publishers press release (something that is
>not mentioned
at the KQ site) and that this idea of sides was preposterous
>and that the
message was solely to let the fact that this new book was
>coming out be
known.
>
>But this last
post was apropos of nothing. And it
clearly is simply done
>to bother
Jerry.
>
>Weird.
Weird is the
right word.
Why don't you post a list of links that we
can't post on the beat-l so as
not to bother
Gerry. (A BANNED SITE LIST) Then only let ass suckers like
you, Jo, Pat,
Bentz, et al on the list, It can then be called the "I want
to suck Gerry's
big fat ass and little weenie list" This list is starting
to remind me of
the Rush Limbaugh show. You know how he only lets callers
on that agree
with him. Then you should also ban anyone from the list that
contradicts GN as
well. Then you should group anyone with Paul that talks
about the bogus
lawsuit and anything that he says, the other person must
have said as well.It
has to be true. Then you should assume that anyone who
knows John Sampas
is part of a plot to get you. Then you should go back and
read my post then
read Gerry's and see what a paranoid delusional person he
is. All I did was
post a link to Paul's site because he can't post it
anymore. Gerry
and Jo got him thrown off the list. Who the fuck is this gay
guy GN is talking
about? I have no opinion of him or his book(BUGHOUSE
BLUES???) because
I haven't read it nor do I care to. I have no problems
with gays,lots of
my friends are gay, my best friend is gay, why I have
even been seen in
public holding hands and kissing gay people.I would even
kiss you Gerry.
Does that make me gay too? Oh my god what will my mother,
wife and three
children say. Gerry go fight Paul Maher, my name is Phil
Chaput can you
get that through your thick skull. I do not say or think
what Paul says or
thinks.I don't even live in the same town as him. If you
folks have a beef
with Paul talk to him not me I am not his brother or
keeper. See Gerry
I did not call you a pornographer that's Paul that did
that my name is
Phil. I did not call you anything in that page because I
did not write
that page that was Paul, my name is Phil.If anyone wants me
banned from the
list (even you Gerry)I will go willingly as this list has
drifted way off
the beat course. By the way the Memory Babe archive at
U-Lowell is not
closed and I ask anyone to phone and ask them for
themselves to see
if it is as I did.The answer I got was NO THE ARCHIVE IS
NOT CLOSED. Gerry
and Jo Grant know that but they continue to solicit money
from you good
people saying it is closed. Gerry don't write me because I
will refuse to
write back. I can't stand you. Phil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:09:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dirty womb <Dirtywomb@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Stamp Out Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i went to the
post office today and they had a vote for yr 50's stamp thing
and it said under the arts catigory new york skools and that said
they had
a unique
indentity or somthing would that mean the beatniks? and if so why
are they afraid
to put beats i don't know well
have a nice night
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:26:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: maturing/no crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I too have been
enjoying the poems that Marie has been posting.
This
is the year of
the great deaths. To lose allen and william, seem to
herald so
much. We do have lots to do. I forgot to mention but in the
forum the other
night I described this beatnet community that spanned
the world. i
specifically talked about you Rinaldo.
So if your ears
burned last night
it was because i was introducing you to a hundred
students and some
really boring professors. as part of how
the beat
movement is not
just the original guys but their influence that
continues to
throb.
I wish I had a
cinematic and audio list of william, I
am always finding
out the william
recorded something new or played some part.
James
mentioned that he
recorded junky and naked lunch at a studio here. I
don't know if and
when they will come out. He also spoke
of unpublished
material, such as
the diaries to come. i hope the weird
scrap books
that william
kept, i thought of them as idea books.I doubt if they would
interest more
than the burrough scholars though.
ciao
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 06:37:26 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"all else
drunken dumbshow"
AG
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 06:39:12 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: San Francisco reading
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i can't be there,
but great time should be had by all. good wishes
mc
Levi Asher wrote:
> For San
Francisco (actually Oakland/Bay Area) Beat-L'er's --
> if anybody's
free this Saturday night, there's going to be
> an interesting
reading of poetry/fiction/etc. by web writers
> in a studio
in Oakland, run by Christian Crumlish who
> co-edited my
book "Coffeehouse: Writings From The Web"
> with me.
>
> I'll be
reading along with several others ... and I invited
> John Cassady
to come and play a few songs ... (Neal's son --
> he's not a
Web writer but he's a very good guitarist) ...
> anyway it
will definitely be an unusual night.
>
> It's in a
private studio at 646 Kennedy Street in Oakland,
> on the bay
side of 880. Go to www.zoka.com/map for
good
>
directions. I wish I could write to all
the Bay Area
> Beat-L'er's
I'm in touch with personally to invite, but
> it's all
last-minute planning and time is running out --
> so please
come!
>
> Write to me
at brooklyn@netcom.com for more info if
> the above is
confusing.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> | Levi Asher
= brooklyn@netcom.com
|
> |
|
> | Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
> | (the beat literature web site) |
> |
|
> | "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
> | (a real book, like on paper) |
> | also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
> |
|
> |
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
> | |
> | "I think somebody better put out
the big light" |
> | -- Elvis
Costello |
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 01:52:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Phil Chaput
wrote:
>If anyone
wants me banned from this list (even you Gerry)I will go
willingly...
Thanks for the
offer, Phil... why don't you "go willingly"...
We all know you
won't, though. You're having too much
fun stirring up the
muck. Geeeshh...
Jerry Cimino
Fog City Facts
& Fiction
1-800-KER-OUAC
www.kerouac.com
(My name is
Jerry, not Gerry, but Jerry)...
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 01:34:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Jerry Cimino
Jerry, I want to
take this moment to ask you. When did
you first note
the Beats. What was your first or signifigant encounter.
i hope you
take a minute to
anwer.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:26:33 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: San Francisco reading
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For San Francisco
(actually Oakland/Bay Area) Beat-L'er's --
if anybody's free
this Saturday night, there's going to be
an interesting
reading of poetry/fiction/etc. by web writers
in a studio in
Oakland, run by Christian Crumlish who
co-edited my book
"Coffeehouse: Writings From The Web"
with me.
I'll be reading
along with several others ... and I invited
John Cassady to
come and play a few songs ... (Neal's son --
he's not a Web
writer but he's a very good guitarist) ...
anyway it will
definitely be an unusual night.
It's in a private
studio at 646 Kennedy Street in Oakland,
on the bay side
of 880. Go to www.zoka.com/map for good
directions. I wish I could write to all the Bay Area
Beat-L'er's I'm
in touch with personally to invite, but
it's all
last-minute planning and time is running out --
so please come!
Write to me at
brooklyn@netcom.com for more info if
the above is
confusing.
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "I think somebody better put out
the big light" |
| -- Elvis
Costello |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:31:52 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Stamp Out Beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >but what
are you talking about? a jack stamp was issued ages ago, when first
> >class
still cost us 29 cents. you can see it on varoius beat websites. are
you
> >talking
about another one?
>
> Hee, hee,
heee
>
> Levi ought
better begin to worry about being accused of counterfitting.
The funny thing
is, lots of people think those stamps were real, and
they were done on
the cheapiest, crummiest equipment -- a little
dinky handheld
scanner, and a cheapo paint program with like
two tools on the
toolbar -- just goes to show something, I dunno
what.
Now I use a
flatbed color scanner and Photoshop with Kai's Power
Tools, etc., but
nothing comes out that great.
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
| *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |
|
|
| "I think somebody better put out
the big light" |
| -- Elvis
Costello |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
philzi@pop.tiac.net
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:17:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: The character assassins are back
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 01:52 AM
3/6/98 EST, you wrote:
>>Phil
Chaput wrote:
>>If anyone
wants me banned from this list (even you Gerry)I will go
>willingly...
>
>
>
>Thanks for
the offer, Phil... why don't you "go willingly"...
>
>We all know
you won't, though. You're having too
much fun stirring up the
>muck. Geeeshh...
I see you still
haven't finished those Sophomore child psychology classes
yet. Keep
plugging you might get through them.
>Jerry Cimino
>Fog City
Facts & Fiction
>1-800-KER-OUAC
>www.kerouac.com
>
>(My name is
Jerry, not Gerry, but Jerry)...
I wasn't talking
to you.
I will let you
know when and if I sign off. Phil
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:15:38 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: some old nobody
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Devil's Advocate
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For the record :
I side, obviously, with Gerry Nicosia's excellent work
and Jo Grant's
excellent web site......but I still have to play devil's
advocate and
observe :
Y'all are getting
way too bent out of shape over this Maher crap. Why
anyone would even
bother to get outraged over such a childish, moronic,
crudely
constructed web page as Maher's is beyond me. The nursery-school
drawing of Jan
Kerouac's grave clearly shows that we are dealing with a
subnormal brain
here. No one with a fraction of an intellect could take
Maher's
anti-Nicosia rant seriously for a second - it's clearly the
product of a
small mind with a severe chip on his shoulder and it makes
no logical,
cohesive sense whatsoever. Then again, neither do half the
posts on Beat-L.
Phil Chaput's
comments rang true regarding how if you voice something in
disagreement with
the others on this list, how quickly and soundly you
are beaten down
and attacked. I learned almost immediately after
joining, how
insular and reactionary this list can be. For instance,
I'll probably be
attacked for "siding" with Chaput for writing this,
even though I
disagree with most everything else Chaput said, and any
friend of Sampas
is no friend of mine.
I would
respectfully disagree with Mr.Nicosia when he says "I call upon
Mr. Gargan to put
an end, once and for all, to this vile, vicious use of
the Beat-List for
private, financial motivation--to end
the character
assassination attempts against myself." I don't think
Maher is making
much money off being an ass in public, and I certainly
would defend his
right to state his opinion on this list, no matter how
vile,
misinformed, and just plain stupid it is.
For what it's
worth, I also called and was told the archive was not
closed. On the
other hand, whoever I spoke to sounded sorta clueless.
And what's wrong
with being called a pornographer?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
thinking about
Shrimp and Beer Cheese
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:25:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Unsubscribe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
This thing is
boring. Take me off!
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus paid for
our sins ... now let's get our money's worth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are three
kinds of people: those who can count & those
who can't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I said
"no" to drugs, but they just wouldn't listen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 07:29:59 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>This thing is
boring. Take me off!
>
>:-) Lee :-)
OK Everybody. Lee's gone.
We can start being interesting again.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Jesus paid
for our sins ... now let's get our money's worth.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>There are
three kinds of people: those who can count & those
> who can't.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>I said
"no" to drugs, but they just wouldn't listen.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:04:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Interesting Observation Appropos SoD
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
If you remember
back I mentioned I heard a talk at Hsi Lai Temple by Chen
Li-an, the
politician/buddhist practitioneer from Taiwan.
He said something
very interesting near the beginning of the lecture and to
me it resonated
with what kerouac did with Some of the Dharma.
Early on Chen
asked: What is Buddism anyway? The Sutras are hard to
understand. Even in modern Chinese. Why is that?
Many sutra texts are
experimental data
books. Some Sutras are not to understand
but to
establish certain
feelings and to experience them.
(The above is a
paraphrase based on my notes)
That clicked with
me in terms of what Some of the Dharma seems to be and
also in what it
seems to do. I found this idea of Sutra
as a lab notebook
for the
practitioner intriguing (dare I say interesting?!!?).
Both the
experimental notebook aspect and the intent to establish feelings
and experience
both seem to be what Some of Dharma is about.
Some of the
Dharma aka Jack's Lab Book.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: What is
Buddism? - Re: Interesting Observation Appropos SoD
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100b1256e1aa44a@[128.125.223.102]>
References:
Timothy K.
Gallaher says:
>Early on Chen
asked: What is Buddism anyway? The Sutras are hard to
>understand. Even in modern Chinese. Why is that?
Many sutra texts are
>experimental
data books. Some Sutras are not to
understand but to
>establish
certain feelings and to experience them.
Timothy, noticed
u (&others) are in deep interested in Buddhism &
the questio
what's buddhism? is really good for example
this evening back
home in bus near the highway intersection
venice mestre
treviso there was a person maybe involved in
a car crash lying
on the pavement the stomach turned to the
dark blue
sky the person aside me talk me dont'
look at
touching me a
bit ___of course _the cause of the world's woe
is
birth_(jk)___ an evening soft spring
suddenly became a pain
feeling_____________
often im' thinking what's the meaning
of
events___________thinking buddhism______ impossible to think
__the pain is too
much... saluti, Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:12:40 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Fri, 06
Mar 1998 20:01:51...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:01:51
+0100 with subject "What is
Buddism? - Re:
Interesting Observation Appropos SoD" has been successfully
distributed to
the BEAT-L list (246 recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:57:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Chaput
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Bill:
Phil said:
> Then only
let ass suckers like
> you, Jo,
Pat, Bentz, et al on the list, It can then be called the "I want
> to suck
Gerry's big fat ass and little weenie list"
>
Personally, I
think this is not acceptable behavior. I
have never asked
that someone be
banned from any of the lists that I am on.
And, I
won't ask it now. But, I felt that it should be called to your
attention.
You will note
that I have tried to stay out of this foolishness. I did
accidentally post
to the list an amen to Patricia's post that I meant to
back
channel. But this is childish and it is
hard to understand why
Phil indulges in
this type of behavior.
Thanks for
whatever you decide to do.
BTW, I would
backchannel this, but like someone else commented, all my
posts to you at
the address on your email bounce.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:24:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@CALCNA.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: al/ph/abet:(de)find
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A An B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q
R S T Th U V W X Y Z
"a little book abt such big
things" - marie countryman
RELEASED:
House Press has just released
"al/ph/abet:(de)find" a rewriting of
a 28 letter alphabet, based on each letter's
individual emotions and
personality. Re-appraising how we use
language and what associations
the author is faced with everytime he
confronts the keyboard;
"al/ph/abet:(de)find" tries to
reveal another world inhabited by
letters with grudges, personalities and
personal histories.
"al/ph/abet:(de)find" is
published in a limited edition of 28
copies with each copy hand bound with
handprinted artstock front &
back covers.
"al/ph/abet:(de)find" is
$20.00 per copy, postage included.
contact House press at:
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
for more information or to order a copy.
A An B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S
T Th U V W X Y Z
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:25:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@CALCNA.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: i do not know this story /
boneyard: a suite
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
RELEASED:
House Press has just released "i
do not know this story /
boneyard: a suite" a reaction to the
pamela george case here in
canada. With poetry by tjsnow, courtney
thompson, ian samuels,
jonathon c. wilcke, shereen tuomi and cj
fyffe, this chapbook
confronts a controversial rape/murder case
where the accused were
given a extremely light sentence due to
their "promising futures". "i
do not know this story / boneyard: a
suite" questions the way we see
natives and whites, myth and the stories
of women.
"i do not know this story /
boneyard: a suite" is published in a
limited edition of 50 numbered copies with
each copy handbound with
handprinted jute artstock covers and
watermarked bamboo pages.
"i do not know this story /
boneyard: a suite" is $15.00 per
copy, postage included. contact House press at:
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
for more information or to order a copy.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 20:56:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Phil Chaput is no
longer on the Beat-l list. Anyone
wishing to communicate wit
h him should
email him privately.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 04:30:06 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> A crazy fantasy? Maybe.
But think how much less suffering
> there
> would have
been in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
>
"suppressing" suffering, not adding to it?
Kerouac never
accepted the postive points of either Buddhism or
Catholicism. Following the path of either he would have
been happier and
less
self-destructive. He accepted "all
is suffering" and in fact lived
it. He never got to the part that says "The
supression of suffering can
be
achieved." He also seemed to
believe that God created the world, but
clung to
"why does God kill us?" without getting to the part of the
mystery of
Christ's death and resurrection. He says
in "Desolation
Angels" or
his time on the mountain, "I learned that I hate myself,"
which is the
truth that seemed to drive his life, especially in terms of
relationships
with himself and others. I don't think
Buddhism made his
life negative, I
think he chose the first noble truth simply because it
fit with his idea
of life.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 04:55:44 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland wrote:
>
> === In all
honesty, and this time I'm *not* just trying to play devil's
> advocate, I
really don't see his philosophy as negative in the first
> place.
Take a look at
these quotes from "Desolation Angels" and tell me what you
see as positive
about them:
"I resign
from the attempt to be happy..."
"I look at
the distant fires in distant mountains and see the little
imaginary
blossoms of sight discussed in the Surangama Sutra whereby I
know it's all an
ephemeral dream of sensation. What
earthly use to know
this? What
earthly use is anything?"
"Desolation
Adventure finds me finding at the bottom of myself abysmal
nothingness worse
than that no illusion even--my mind's in rags."
"...all
we're doing is fighting our deaths."
"And already
in my life I've had two wives and sent one away and ran away
from the other,
and hundreds of lover-girls everyone of em betrayed or
screwed in some
way by me..."
"A peaceful
sorrow at home is the best I'll ever be able to offer the
world..."
> === But what
would he have written about? Would these 30 books be even
> worth
reading? Would he write anything as great as "Visions of Cody"
> and
>
"Desolation Angels"? I seriously doubt it. I also think that had
> Kerouac
> lived,
Ginsberg's star might not have shone so brightly. I think that
> the world
came to see Ginsberg as the keeper of the flame, so to speak,
> in the void
left by Kerouac's passing. With Kerouac alive, Ginsberg
> would be
knocked back down to the number 2 guy. Depending on just how
> wretched
Kerouac's later writings might have turned out, Ginsberg might
> have
eclipsed him anyway on his own merits. Hard to say.
You've mistaken
if you think that great writers have to be driven and
tortured by
self-destruction to have something to write about. Kerouac's
writing was no
less appealing when he was describing joy; it's only that
his joy was
fleeting as he became more and more overcome by despair. As
for Ginsberg, I
don't have a clue by what ruler you are measuring
success, but the
greatness of Ginsberg's work stands on its own.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:36:48 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Unmarked Helicopter
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> I don't know
any Buddhists who take such a
> cynical view
of procreation, raising children, etc.
=== I could
introduce you to a few.
> Obviously
this was stuff he deeply felt, though it's hard to say
> how much of
it might have been from alcoholic depression.
=== Alcohol is a
truth serum. The things we say and feel in such a state
are closer to our
true Id than otherwise.
> he avoided
relationships with women (other than his mother),
> disowned his
daughter, and looked for sex from other men, where
> there was no
"danger" of creating children or a lasting
> partnership.
=== But who can
judge him for this? He simply did what he felt he must,
as we all do.
> What if,
instead, Jack gave up his particular negative Buddhist
> philosophy
at that point?
=== In all
honesty, and this time I'm *not* just trying to play devil's
advocate, I
really don't see his philosophy as negative in the first
place.
> What if he
tried to give up booze, developed a
> stable match
with Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958?
=== He would have
been boring as hell, and would have probably been
essentially a
neutered dog in a kennel.
> He'd be
celebrating his 40th wedding anniversary now, a robust
> and hale 76
years old, with another 30 or so books added to
> his canon.
=== But what
would he have written about? Would these 30 books be even
worth reading?
Would he write anything as great as "Visions of Cody" and
"Desolation
Angels"? I seriously doubt it. I also think that had Kerouac
lived, Ginsberg's
star might not have shone so brightly. I think that
the world came to
see Ginsberg as the keeper of the flame, so to speak,
in the void left
by Kerouac's passing. With Kerouac alive, Ginsberg
would be knocked
back down to the number 2 guy. Depending on just how
wretched
Kerouac's later writings might have turned out, Ginsberg might
have eclipsed him
anyway on his own merits. Hard to say.
> But think how much less suffering there
> would have
been in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
>
"suppressing" suffering, not adding to it?
=== without
suffering, there is little art. And I wouldn't say Buddhists
are supposed to
supress suffering - they aren't superheroes. The Buddha
nature is more
about non-intervention.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to Son
House's "American Defense"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 16:57:19 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Unmarked Helicopter
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Michael R. Brown
wrote:
> Id alone is
not true self. True self is whole self.
=== Fair enough;
I was only using the term "Id" on a whim. I do not
subscribe to
Freudian thinking.
> > But who
can judge him for this? He simply did what he felt
> > he must,
as we all do.
>
> And if one
feels one must judge ...
=== And if one
feels they must judge they who judge, etc. etc.
Everything is
permitted. Nothing is Forbidden.
> Can one only
create in Benzedrine jags or alcohol loosenesses?
=== Of course
not. I didn't say that. Can one create BETTER under such
circumstances?
Possibly.
> So
creativity requires unhealth?
=== I didn't say
that either. But maybe the best kind does.
> If one is
empathic, there's plenty of suffering out there to be tormented by.
=== Which could
ultimately drive one to drugs and drink. A strange loop.
> > The
Buddha nature is more about non-intervention.
>
> That's not
consustent with Mahayana Buddhism and the Bodhisattvic ideal.
=== If you eat at
Mahayana's, don't order the swordfish. "Bodhisattavas
never engage in
conversations whose resolutions depend on words and
logic." -
Shakyamuni Buddha, 500 B.C.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
thinking about
pancakes & syrup
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 17:15:23 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: High Fructose Corn Syrup
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane Carter
wrote:
> Take a look
at these quotes from "Desolation Angels" and tell
> me what you
see as positive about them
=== We're talking
about two different levels here. I KNOW the things
he's saying are
"negative", in that he's not talking about bunnies and
duckies and blue
skies and sunshine. However, I think this "negative"
outlook is a
correct and "positive" outlook to have. Gerry made it sound
to me that he was
saying this attitude was a bad one to have. I think
it's a quite
healthy one.
> You've
mistaken if you think that great writers have to be
> driven and
tortured by self-destruction to have something to
> write about.
===
"Great" is of course a subjective term. I am simply speaking from my
own experience. I
am not "mistaken" by reading what I like.
> Kerouac's
writing was no less appealing when he was describing
> joy
=== I agree.
Probably because one writes about Joy with a new zeal and
perspective after
one has seen Hell.
> the
greatness of Ginsberg's work stands on its own.
=== I'm talking
his later work, which I don't think measures up to his
earlier work. But
again, "greatness" is a subjective term that cannot be
verified in a lab
by scientists in white smocks.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
fantasizing about
Greta Van Susteren
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 17:35:40 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: High Fructose Corn Syrup
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: WSB, Junk, Kerouac, Booze, etc.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> Alcohol is a
known depressant
=== yep.
> the stories
I heard about Jack and how
> he drank and
what he was like were sad and horrific.
=== yep.
> William
overcame his great weight (junk) and i think his later works
> were better
for it.
=== WSB was still
doing junk by the 1980's and wrote "The Place Of Dead
Roads" while
on it. He was also still drinking like a fish to the very
end of his life.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, KY
listening to the
Appalachian Voodoo Ensemble
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:30:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: High Fructose Corn Syrup
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: WSB, Junk, Kerouac, Booze, etc.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
> Far as like
a fish, I don't agree, I think william was one of
> those
contolled alcoholics, with cycles of more and less
=== Well, sure,
but it's the cycles of more that I'm referring to. Hal
Willner said that
when he was recording with him, WSB kept drinking and
drinking and
drinking from sunup to sundown and refilling Hal's glass
until he was
quite drunk, yet WSB showed little or no intoxication.
Finally Hal had
to say, "enough! I can't keep up with you!"
> Suffering
does put you through a fire and many artists have a
> sensibility
that probably can not preclude suffering.
=== I think WSB
was a great writer when he was sober, when he was drunk,
when he was on
junk or when he was off, or when he was kicking. His
suffering and his
experiences are certainly a factor in his perceptions,
though, and
helped make him the man he was, and the writer he was.
> But god save
the fool who thinks a drink will elevate his writing.
=== *A* drink,
no. But many drinks over a period of years.....possibly.
Drunkenness
breeds folly, and folly builds character.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, KY
staring at a bug
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 10:37:51 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello to everyone
on the Beat-List! March 7, 1998
I am almost finished reading SOME OF
THE DHARMA, and I'm deeply
troubled by the
negativity toward women, children, marriage, and life
itself. There has been a lot of hype of this book as
a great modern
interpretation of
Buddhism, but I don't know any Buddhists who take such a
cynical view of
procreation, raising children, etc.
Kerouac advocates that
people stop
having children, and snidely quips that "pretty girls make
graves." Obviously this was stuff he deeply felt,
though it's hard to say
how much of it
might have been from alcoholic depression.
This philosophy
dictated much of
his life, the way he avoided relationships with women
(other than his
mother), disowned his daughter, and looked for sex from
other men, where
there was no "danger" of creating children or a lasting
partnership.
As I read the book, I kept getting this
vision: what if, say,
Kerouac had given
up Buddhism in 1956, when he met Helen Weaver?
This
beautiful,
outgoing brunette also had a mind the equal of his own--she later
became famous for
her translations of Artaud and other French writers. He
describes their
affair in Desolation Angels, where he calls her Ruth
Heaper--he
obviously loved her, and used to refer to her "belly of wheat,"
quoting the Song
of Solomon. But instead of cementing a
relationship with
her, he'd
disappear for four or five nights on a wild drunken binge,
spoiling all her
plans and leaving her in tears, till finally her therapist
told her to break
it off. And then, if you remember the
scene in Desolation
Angels, Jack
storms into her apartment and accuses her of letting her
therapist ruin
their relationship!
What if, instead, Jack gave up his
particular negative Buddhist
philosophy at
that point? What if he tried to give up
booze, developed a
stable match with
Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958? He'd be
celebrating his
40th wedding anniversary now, a robust and hale 76 years
old, with another
30 or so books added to his canon. And
maybe, in this
scenario, he
would also have developed a decent relationship with his
daughter Jan, and
encouraged her to take care of her own health problems
(including a
blood disease she inherited from him), so that she didn't end
up
self-destructing as well at age 44.
Maybe Jan, now 46, would be showing
up at his wedding
anniversary with a few of her own kids, his grandchildren.
A crazy fantasy? Maybe.
But think how much less suffering there
would have been
in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
"suppressing"
suffering, not adding to it?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
one.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:34:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Subterr7 <Subterr7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think in
Buddhism one does not supress suffering, but "sees it" and lets it
go. The process seems simple ,but it is not.
Some of the Dharma is interesting in its
glimspe into the mind of Kerouac,
but as for its
insights into Buddhism they are few. He
may have had some
moments of
"satori" but they were typical of a westerner approaching Buddhist
philosophy for
the first time, and trying to interphet it in light of a
previous held ,
or currently held, religious philosophy.
In Kerouac case,
Catholism.
It is interesting to compare Kerouac's
approach to Buddhism and Synder's or
Ginsberg.
I think Kerouac would have had a negative
attitude toward women etc. whether
he had read
Buddhist thought or not. It is appears
to form in his early
years, as shown
by Nicosia's excellant biography.
Just some thoughts,
Jack Gregorio
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 11:47:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sat, 7 Mar
1998, Unmarked Helicopter wrote:
> Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> >
Obviously this was stuff he deeply felt, though it's hard to say
> > how
much of it might have been from alcoholic depression.
> Alcohol is a
truth serum. The things we say and feel in such a state
> are closer
to our true Id than otherwise.
Id alone is not
true self. True self is whole self.
> > there
was no "danger" of creating children or a lasting
> >
partnership.
> But who can
judge him for this? He simply did what he felt he must,
> as we all
do.
And if one feels
one must judge ...
> > What if
he tried to give up booze, developed a
> > stable
match with Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958?
> He would
have been boring as hell, and would have probably been
> essentially
a neutered dog in a kennel.
Can one only
create in Benzedrine jags or alcohol loosenesses?
> > He'd be
celebrating his 40th wedding anniversary now, a robust
> > and
hale 76 years old, with another 30 or so books added to
> > his
canon.
> But what
would he have written about? Would these 30 books be even
> worth
reading? Would he write anything as great as "Visions of Cody" and
>
"Desolation Angels"? I seriously doubt it.
So creativity
requires unhealth? Creativity, not only language per
Burroughs, as
virus?
> > But think how much less suffering there
> > would
have been in that case. And aren't
Buddhists supposed to be
> >
"suppressing" suffering, not adding to it?
> without
suffering, there is little art.
If one is
empathic, there's plenty of suffering out there to be tormented
by.
> And I
wouldn't say Buddhists are supposed to supress suffering - they
> aren't
superheroes. The Buddha nature is more about non-intervention.
That's not
consustent with Mahayana Buddhism and the Bodhisattvic ideal.
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:47:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: What if?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerry:
I am not versed
enough to imagine what Jack woulda coulda been like, so
it is hard for me
to imagine. What always impressed me
from his writing
was the split
that he seemed to feel in himself. I
think it was best
shown by his
division between Buddhism and Catholism, or his general
attitude towards
women vs his relationship with his mother.
This seemed
to be too large a
gulf for him to bring together.
I see him as
becoming restless, or like Rimbaud, abandoning writing to
survive.
I do imagine what
it would have been like if Jimi Hendrix had not died.
The Hey Joe list
has posts on this fantasy from time to time.
Perhaps
someone might
take a shot a writing out a "memoire" from a 72 year old
Jack K. If someone has the imagination, it might be
interesting.
Someone has been
posting such a fantasy about Little Walter and Jimi
Hendrix jamming
to the Hey Joe list and it was very interesting.
We know the
difference in Neil and Jack dying young and William and
Allen living much
longer.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
stu5293@sun.cc.westga.edu
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:51:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: The Last Hurrah!
<stu5293@WESTGA.EDU>
Subject: Unsubscribe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I thought I was
taken off this list yesterday? Apparently not, so could
you please
unsubscribe me?
:-) Lee :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus paid for
our sins ... now let's get our money's worth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are three
kinds of people: those who can count & those
who can't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I said
"no" to drugs, but they just wouldn't listen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 21:03:14 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Self-Rising Biscuit
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: drink
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
> I have to go
with Patricia on this one. Thinking that
drink will
>
"make" you better has lead many a person to ruin.
=== But I never
said that in the first place.
> Surviving it
may make you
> wiser, but
not necessarily a better writer.
=== I never said
it NECESSARILY made one a better writer. I said it
POSSIBLY, key
word here being POSSIBLY, might for some.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland,
kentucky
barking dogs in
distance
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 12:09:29 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> What if, instead, Jack gave up his
particular negative Buddhist
> philosophy
at that point? What if he tried to give
up booze, developed a
> stable match
with Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958? He'd be
> celebrating
his 40th wedding anniversary now, a robust and hale 76 years
> old, with
another 30 or so books added to his canon.
And maybe, in this
> scenario, he
would also have developed a decent relationship with his
> daughter
Jan, and encouraged her to take care of her own health problems
> (including a
blood disease she inherited from him), so that she didn't end
> up
self-destructing as well at age 44.
Maybe Jan, now 46, would be showing
> up at his
wedding anniversary with a few of her own kids, his grandchildren.
> A crazy fantasy? Maybe.
But think how much less suffering there
> would have
been in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
>
"suppressing" suffering, not adding to it?
A really
interesting thought. And a nice image.
I guess I think
Jack's negativity goes deeper than his Buddhism. The
Dalai Lama is a
relentlessly positive Buddhist -- it *is* possible,
and preferable,
to be a positive Buddhist. I think Jack
was infused
with what
Kierkegaard calls a "tragic sense of life" as a child or
teenager. When he left his gloomy (but comforting) home
base to
follow Neal and
Allen and Bill around the world, I think his
tragic sense made
him different from the others, sadder and
more doubting,
even as he joined in with the festivities and
tried to play
along -- in a way this is a central theme to On The
Road and Town and
the City (and Dharma Bums, and Big Sur, and
Desolation
Angels, etc.) Jack's sadness was in a
way the most
basic thing about
him. I do think he tried to keep the
bitterest
side of his
sadness out of his published works, which is noble
and compassionate
of him. In his private papers and
unpublished
manuscripts we
see the more poisonous side ... I think we should
remember he may
not have wanted the world to ever see him this way.
So back to the
Buddhism question -- I think if he didn't
find a
philosopical rationale for his negativity in the
Buddhist
religion, he would have found it elsewhere.
Maybe if
he'd lived, he
would have joined his gloomy compatriot Bob
Dylan in becoming
an apocalypic born-again Christian in the
late 70's.
Anyway -- good
conversation starter Gerald!
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
|
|
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "I think somebody better put out
the big light" |
| -- Elvis
Costello |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 21:11:12 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Monosodium Glutamate
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A ROARING,
RAGTIME, EPIC. wrote:
>
> I disagree
with the statement that alcohol is "a truth serum."
=== Why? It is
well known for being the magic elixir that loosens the
screws at the
back of the tongue.
> In Jack's
case I think the booze only fueled
> his anger
and distorted his true personality.
=== How do you
know this wasn't just his NEW true personality?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, ky
ky ky
Thinkin' about
string
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 21:15:00 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: WSB, Junk, Kerouac, Booze, etc.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Alex Howard
wrote:
>
> That is such
a dangerous, _dangerous_ attitude to have, I'm not
> even going
to express how horrified I am.
=== Funny, that's
my reply to you as well.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland -
Berea, KY
licensed
practicioner of Appalachian Voodoo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:49:12 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Unmarked
Helicopter wrote:
>
> Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
> > I don't
know any Buddhists who take such a
> > cynical
view of procreation, raising children, etc.
>
> === I could
introduce you to a few.
>
I could introduce
you to many who don't, who take the higher road as
serious path to
find.
> >
Obviously this was stuff he deeply felt, though it's hard to say
> > how
much of it might have been from alcoholic depression.
>
> === Alcohol
is a truth serum. The things we say and feel in such a state
> are closer
to our true Id than otherwise.
>
Alcohol is a
known depressant, the stories I heard
about Jack and how
he drank and what
he was like were sad and horrific.
> > he
avoided relationships with women (other than his m
other),
> >
disowned his daughter, and looked for sex from other men, where
> > there
was no "danger" of creating children or a lasting
> >
partnership.
>
> === But who
can judge him for this? He simply did what he felt he must,
> as we all
do.
i don't
necessarily agree with either he. Do any
of us only do what we
want or is it a
mix. jack had complex relationships with
women. He
stayed friends
with Edie after the divorce. That spoke
something.
>
> > What
if, instead, Jack gave up his particular negative Buddhist
> >
philosophy at that point?
>
> === In all
honesty, and this time I'm *not* just trying to play devil's
> advocate, I
really don't see his philosophy as negative in the first
> place.
>
> > What if
he tried to give up booze, developed a
> > stable
match with Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958?
>
> === He would
have been boring as hell, and would have probably been
> essentially
a neutered dog in a kennel.
>
it wasn't being a
drunk and depressed that made Jack interesting.
It
was his mind, his
spirit, his charm, much of which was destroyed by
alcohol.
> > He'd be
celebrating his 40th wedding anniversary now, a robust
> > and
hale 76 years old, with another 30 or so books added to
> > his
canon.
>
> === But what
would he have written about? Would these 30 books be even
> worth reading?
Would he write anything as great as "Visions of Cody" and
>
"Desolation Angels"? I seriously doubt it. I also think that had
Kerouac
> lived,
Ginsberg's star might not have shone so brightly. I think that
> the world
came to see Ginsberg as the keeper of the flame, so to speak,
> in the void
left by Kerouac's passing. With Kerouac alive, Ginsberg
> would be
knocked back down to the number 2 guy. Depending on just how
> wretched
Kerouac's later writings might have turned out, Ginsberg might
> have eclipsed
him anyway on his own merits. Hard to say.
>
> > But think how much less suffering there
> > would
have been in that case. And aren't
Buddhists supposed to be
> >
"suppressing" suffering, not adding to it?
>
> === without
suffering, there is little art. And I wouldn't say Buddhists
> are supposed
to supress suffering - they aren't superheroes. The Buddha
> nature is
more about non-intervention.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland - Berea, KY
> listening to
Son House's "American Defense"
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ginsberg being
knocked down is silly, Ginsberg made himself a keeper of
the flame as part
of his heart. His work and williams work
are truely
great, it was a
wonderful chemistry of freinds that let these men meet.
William overcame
his great weight (junk) and i think his later works
were better for
it.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:37:01 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB, Junk, Kerouac, Booze, etc.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> > William
overcame his great weight (junk) and i think his later works
> > were
better for it.
>
> === WSB was
still doing junk by the 1980's and wrote "The Place Of Dead
> Roads"
while on it. He was also still drinking like a fish to the very
> end of his
life.
>
on the drinking i
agree that he drank too much, but i am a teatottler,
always have been.
I think almost everyone drinks too much.
Far as like
a fish, I don't
agree, I think william was one of those contolled
alcoholics, with
cycles of more and less but I have known out of control
alcoholics that
really drink like a fish. From
descriptions that was
Jack in his later
years. I don't speak to williams best
works, I don't
diparrage naked
Lunch, place of dead roads, my favorite is western
lands. But I
didn't mean that one can't produce a masterpiece on or off.
Inever meant to
imply the writing was automatically improved by on or
off a vice. I
think the man was. I wouldn't propose
that the states
made for better
writing or worse. I wouldn't imagine
that to be what
made these men's
writing great. i think it is their
intellect and their
heart. Suffering
does put you through a fire and many artists have a
sensibility that
probably can not preclude suffering. But
god save the
fool who thinks a
drink will elevate his writing.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 17:58:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB, Junk, Kerouac, Booze, etc.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> === *A*
drink, no. But many drinks over a period of years.....possibly.
> Drunkenness
breeds folly, and folly builds character.
That is such a
dangerous, _dangerous_ attitude to have, I'm not even going
to express how
horrified I am.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:02:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'm sorry, but i
can't stand people who don't take responsibility for things.
it's really
disgusting to get messages from people demanding to be
unsubscribed and
asking why they haven't. it says very clearly to either print
out or save the
original welcome message so you'll know how to unsubcribe.
it's not our
responsibility to unsubscribe you, lee. we can't, as much as we
might like to.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:21:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "A ROARING, RAGTIME, EPIC."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I disagree with
the statement that alcohol is "a truth serum." This might be
perhaps true for
a non-alcoholic drinker but NOT TRUE for someone like Kerouac
in
the later stages
of alcoholism. In Jack's case I think the booze only fueled
his anger and
distorted his true personality. I base this statement on personal
experience as
well as from having know many, many hardcore alkies who have
cleaned up their
act to reveal new layers of unsung personality traits.
Dave B.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:31:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ive heard that buddhism says that there is no
life without suffering.
>I think in
Buddhism one does not supress suffering, but "sees it" and lets it
>go. The process seems simple ,but it is not.
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:34:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: drink
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It was said by
Patricia and JS Holland:
> > But god
save the fool who thinks a drink will elevate his writing.
>
> === *A*
drink, no. But many drinks over a period of years.....possibly.
> Drunkenness
breeds folly, and folly builds character.
>
I have to go with
Patricia on this one. Thinking that
drink will "make"
you better has
lead many a person to ruin. Surviving it
may make you
wiser, but not
necessarily a better writer.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:41:04 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerald Nicosia
wrote on 3/7/98,
commenting on his
reading of _Some of the Dharma_:
[. . . .snip. . .
.]
> As I read the book, I kept getting this
vision: what if,
>say, Kerouac
had given up Buddhism in 1956, when he met Helen
>Weaver? This
beautiful, outgoing brunette also had a mind the
>equal of his
own--she later became famous for her translations
>of Artaud and
other French writers.
[. . . .snip. . .
.]
Gregory Severance
rejoins:
On Wed. (3/4) I
received in the mail from Amazon.com:
_Antonin Artaud:
Selected Writings_, ed. Susan
Sontag, trans. Helen Weaver (Berkeley:
University
of California Press, 1988).
My perception is
that Kerouac missed the point of
Buddhism and that
Ginsberg didn't.
Here, from Corso:
Alas, Jack, seems I cannot requiem thee
without
requieming America, and that's one
requiem
I shall not presume, for as long as I
live there'll
be no requiems for me
For though the tree dies the tree is born
anew, only until
the tree dies forever and never a
tree born
anew...shall the ground die too
(p. 4)
Gregory Corso,
_Elegiac Feelings American_ (New York:
New Directions, 1970).
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
"Well I'm
nobody's sugar-daddy now."
LOVESICK BLUES
by Irving Mills
and Charles Friend
as performed by
Hank Williams
No. 1 Best
Selling Retail Country & Western Record
March 1949
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 16:26:12 -0800
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
A crazy
fantasy? Maybe. But think how much less suffering there
would have been
in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
"suppressing"
suffering, not adding to it?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
one.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Yeah, and if my
aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. For
better or worse,
Kerouac was
busier producing literature than Kodak moments.
Had he been
"straighter"
would we have the history and writing that are his true
legacy? Mark J
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 16:34:25 -0800
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: genealogy
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey all --
I know that this
will really be asking some of you to pull info out of
your bums, but I
know there are some of you that have done some
extensive
research on Kerouac (Gerry :) ) --
So, can any of
you tell me what the names of Jack's grandparents are.
If you can supply
both sets, that's fine, but I specifically am looking
for Gabrielle's
parents' names.
Please help...
Chris
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 21:26:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: AG Memorial
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those of you
in the NYC area, there will be a AG/JK/WSB memorial in
Astoria, Queens
at Stonewall and Sons, 33-18 B'way. March 28th at 7:30, if
you would like to
read, call Tom Kelly at 718-204-5774
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 22:42:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Stephen Eickele Voss
<svoss@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: a call for help..
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi. My name's Steve Voss, and I've been a
relative lurker on this
wonderful mailing
list for quite awhile. I'm posting for a
rather selfish
reason, and hope
no one is too offended. I would like
help in bettering
my web site, the
beat cafe (www.beatcafe.com), most specifically, I'm
interested in
improving upon a lot of the biographies I have on the web
page. If anyone
would be interested in writing biographies on the
following people:
Bob Kaufman
Kenneth Rexroth
LeRoi Jones
(Amiri Baraka)
Gregory Corso
Gary Snyder
Denise Levertov
Diane diPrima
and
John Clellon
Holmes
I would be
grateful. You'd get full credit on the page,
and all that good
stuff, and some,
small degree of exposure.
Also, I've been
working hard on putting together a section of people's
writings that
have a beat influence, or that I otherwise think are
important, and
invite anyone to submit their writings (stories, poems,
etc.) for me to
put on my page. I hope to have a little
section for each
person's writing,
with maybe a short bio, and even a picture if possible,
so that each
person could have a mini-publication on the web.
Thanks for reading,
Steve Voss
www.beatcafe.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 22:51:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: a call for help..
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Ive been to this
site and its pretty good. I printed out the first page
with the quote
from JC Holmes and put it on my door...
>Hi. My name's Steve Voss, and I've been a
relative lurker on this
>wonderful
mailing list for quite awhile. I'm
posting for a rather selfish
>reason, and
hope no one is too offended. I would
like help in bettering
>my web site,
the beat cafe (www.beatcafe.com), most specifically, I'm
>interested in
improving upon a lot of the biographies I have on the web
>page. If
anyone would be interested in writing biographies on the
>following
people:
>
>Bob Kaufman
>Kenneth
Rexroth
>LeRoi Jones
(Amiri Baraka)
>Gregory Corso
>Gary Snyder
>Denise
Levertov
>Diane diPrima
>and
>John Clellon
Holmes
>
>I would be
grateful. You'd get full credit on the
page, and all that good
>stuff, and
some, small degree of exposure.
>
>Also, I've been
working hard on putting together a section of people's
>writings that
have a beat influence, or that I otherwise think are
>important,
and invite anyone to submit their writings (stories, poems,
>etc.) for me
to put on my page. I hope to have a little
section for each
>person's
writing, with maybe a short bio, and even a picture if possible,
>so that each
person could have a mini-publication on the web.
>
>Thanks for
reading,
>Steve Voss
>www.beatcafe.com
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:00:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey Jerry
you ask an awful ot of what ifs-
why dont you give up whatever
stupid beliefs
you have. What if you knew every damn thing? what if you were
the ruler of the
universe and could dictate all? what if you were Jack? what
if you knew
really what exactly tortured him? what if you could write
something truly
awesome like he did?
Hey man, you dont know Buddhism- I
dont think you know any thing?
How is that for a
big what if?
Gene Lee
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:08:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think that it
is human nature to ask, "what if". What's wrong with
exploring what
could have been, what might have been? That's what we do--we
ponder, we
wonder, we ask, we look into the past, the present, the future,
the way the world
could have been. Let me ask thi, and I ask myself
frequently,...what
would have happened if Hitler's mother hadnt died at the
hands of Jewish
doctors or if he hadnt been rejected the Jewish directors
of the art school
he applied to in Vienna? So, please..dont trash Jerry for
being human.
~Nancy
>Hey Jerry
> you ask an awful ot of what ifs-
why dont you give up whatever
>stupid
beliefs you have. What if you knew every damn thing? what if you were
>the ruler of
the universe and could dictate all? what if you were Jack? what
>if you knew
really what exactly tortured him? what if you could write
>something
truly awesome like he did?
> Hey man, you dont know Buddhism- I
dont think you know any thing?
>How is that
for a big what if?
> Gene Lee
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:21:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Hey man, you dont know Buddhism- I dont think
you know any thing?
> How is that
for a big what if?
> Gene
Lee
hoo doo .who do
that voodoo.what an unique oblique point. Have we met?
You sound
familiar.
I think this
flight of fancy has resulted in many good posts. I thought
that it was good
that I was caught making a little too sweet on william.
While i usually
saw him wait til 4 to break the cap i am sure that there
were millions of
thing i don't know and could miss.
I felt while
buddism or catholism didn't save jack, i know if it wasn't
important how he
died as what he did. He left a legacy
that moved our
world a little.
I enjoyed a
moment of imagining a Jack that had found more personal
happiness, he
gave a lot to us.
patricia
William, allen,
the major and the minors, i cringe at the thought that
we determine
success by rather by some lucky fluck on suvived or sold
or
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:46:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Please excuse my
last post. I was distracted while writing and then
accidently
clicked send.
patricia
ps.
I have a much
improved draft of my story. It is a lot
better, thank
you for the many backchannels and the help. This is a nice community.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 22:32:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:00 PM
3/7/98 EST, you wrote:
>Hey Jerry
> you ask an awful ot of what ifs-
why dont you give up whatever
>stupid
beliefs you have. What if you knew every damn thing? what if you were
>the ruler of
the universe and could dictate all? what if you were Jack? what
>if you knew
really what exactly tortured him? what if you could write
>something
truly awesome like he did?
> Hey man, you dont know Buddhism- I
dont think you know any thing?
>How is that
for a big what if?
> Gene Lee
>
Hey, Gene,
You sure you're name's not Maher? Or is it Dirk Vulgate?
How's that for detective work?
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 22:57:33 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
March 7, 1998
Whether Gene Lee is a real person or a
pseudonym for one of our
banished
brethren, he's stimulated me to write another post.
I guess I want to say to all of you,
though I wrote a book claiming
Kerouac's
greatness as a 20th century writer, that I have deep problems with
accepting a big
part of his personal philosophy. I look
at his life, the
wrecked
relationships, the abandoned daughter, the utter
self-destructiveness,
and I can't help feeling that this man got badly off
track. When he was "on," his mind was
simply amazing. He wrote sometimes
as if he had a
pipeline to God--he understood in their full complexity some
of the really
powerful forces that drive human life: the need for love, the
need for joy, the
need for freedom. But when he was wrong
(and yes, Gene,
this is my
OPINION only), he was terribly wrong, about everything being
empty of meaning,
about life being futile, about bringing children into this
world as being a
great evil. Remember how he castigated
Corso for having a
baby: "You
brought something into this world just to die, man!"
I think there's a danger with a writer
we love as much as Kerouac,
of taking everything
he wrote uncritically, of just accepting everything he
wrote as
"great"--especially now with many of these manuscripts that Kerouac
did not see
published in his lifetime, and which he may well have changed
his views about
had he lived longer, getting printed because of his fame and
posthumous
commercial success. Again, that's not to
say these books are not
worth reading;
it's just to say, reader beware. If you
don't factor
Kerouac's life
into a lot of the things he says, you may be getting sold a
bill of
goods. He may have been kidding himself
too, whistling in the dark.
In fact, that's
quite apparent in many places in SOME OF THE DHARMA, where
he promises
himself over and over that he will give up drinking, sex,
friendships, etc.
and devote his life to meditation and teaching.
He
claimed to be
offering a map to disciples, of how to get to peace and
enlightenment,
but I suggest that the map did not lead where he said it did.
Again, I welcome your thoughts on this
subject. I was pleased by
the range of
responses to my last post.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 01:41:49 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Imagination
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
3-8-1998
some folks forwarded
me a pile of e-mails about me again today.
i had
the usual
enjoyment at moments and pangs at others....did i write that
...i guess i
did. they seem interested in it
still. that counts for
something.
i wrote three
good sentences in my work in progress "advise on editing
spontaneous
prose" -- boy will this blow their
minds when i finish it!
life is better
than average.
jack kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 01:14:47 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Gerald
Nicosiawrote:
> I guess I want to say to all of you, though
I wrote a book claiming
> Kerouac's
greatness as a 20th century writer, that I have deep problems
> with
accepting a big part of his personal philosophy. I look at his
> life, the
wrecked relationships, the abandoned daughter, the utter
>
self-destructiveness, and I can't help feeling that this man got badly
> off
track. When he was "on," his
mind was simply amazing. He wrote
> sometimes as
if he had a pipeline to God--he understood in their full
> complexity
some of the really powerful forces that drive human life:
> the need for
love, the need for joy, the need for freedom.
But when he
> was wrong
(and yes, Gene, this is my OPINION only), he was terribly
> wrong, about
everything being empty of meaning, about life being
> futile,
about bringing children into this world as being a great evil.
> Remember how
he castigated Corso for having a baby: "You brought
> something
into this world just to die, man!"
> I think there's a danger with a writer
we love as much as
> Kerouac, of
taking everything he wrote uncritically, of just accepting
> everything
he wrote as "great"
I agree almost
entirely with what you are saying in this post.
It's one
thing to respect
and admire Kerouac's writing, he certainly had a gift.
It's quite
another thing to want to use his lifestyle as a model for your
own behavior, and
I think many young people are so enamoured by his
writing style
that they also want to follow his lifestyle.
I think that
area also brings
up overall the subject of what is loved about the beat
lifestyle as
opposed to what is loved about the literature of the beat
generation. You hit the heart of it when you say that
Kerouac wrote
about "the need
for love, the need for joy, the need for freedom." And
this is in fact
the heart of beat literature. The
self-destructiveness
that
characterizes Kerouac's life did not add to this voice, in fact, it
detracted from
it. The human and spiritual search that
drove all the
beat writers led
them into pitfalls in their own life that we as readers,
can clearly avoid
if we critically examine their lives as well as their
works. The joy of living life to its fullest, the
importance of enjoying
every moment that
we have because we will die is what people should
clearly see as
the beat vision. They could have done
things differently,
and if they had
the ability to look at their lifes in retrospect they
probably would
have. That's why we have an advantage. We can look at
the negatives and
positives and choose not to make the same mistakes they
did. If Kerouac
had shown love and support to his daughter in life, it
would have ended
much suffering then and now. I doubt
Burroughs in his
last days would
have advised any young person to become an addict. The
idea that
"we die" became so all-consuming to Kerouac that he gave up
living before he
was dead. The positives of his writing
speak for
themselves, but
the negatives are something we should learn from.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:11:42 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Audrey Carsons <sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gene Lee wrote:
> i personally
do not accept everything that Jack
> wrote as
being great- in fact i think quite a bit of
> garbage was
published under his name- Pic comes to mind-
=== what's wrong
with "Pic"??
> Satori in
Paris as well
=== I agree here,
it's one of his weakest moments.
> - and also a
whole
> lot of his
poetry was really just rambling thoughts that
> meant only
something to him.
=== uh, welcome
to Beat Literature.
> Also- as a
practicing Buddhist
=== keep
practicing.
> and
therefore willl repeat Om Mani Padme Hum 20
> times to
erase whatever bad karma i might have
> incrued by
my actions.
=== If only it
were that easy.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland's
Creeps Outpost
...purveyors of
garbage and
rambling thoughts
that only
mean something to
us
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:37:36 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kim Carsons <sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> I have deep
problems with accepting a big part of his personal
>
philosophy. I look at his life, the
wrecked relationships, the
> abandoned
daughter, the utter self-destructiveness, and I
> can't help
feeling that this man got badly off track.
=== When someone
changes from the way we liked them, why do people
always say they
went off track? Everyone from Miles Davis to John Lennon
to William
S.Burroughs has been accused to having "gone off" just
because they
stopped doing what was expected of them. Kerouac was a
tormented soul,
and tormented souls don't always behave in the ways
their public
wants them to. He *wanted* to be self-destructive. No one
could stop him.
It isn't "off track" to be on a NEW track, even if it's
a train to
nowhere. We have no choice but to accept his actions and his
philosophy.
> he was
terribly wrong, about everything being
> empty of
meaning, about life being futile, about
> bringing
children into this world as being a great evil.
=== Have you
honestly never felt this way yourself? Not even for a brief
time? In a very
real zen way, life IS futile and devoid of meaning, but
that's the open
doorway to placing one's OWN meaning on the clean slate
and beginning
with hope anew. Being a nihilist can be a way for an
idealist to
psychically recharge their batteries.
> I think
there's a danger with a writer we love as much as Kerouac,
> of taking
everything he wrote uncritically, of just accepting
> everything
he wrote as "great"
=== I don't know
what "great" writing is and I don't think anyone else
does either. I
only like what interests me, and Kerouac the man himself
interests me, so
I am interested in virtually everything he wrote.
"Desolation
Angels" and "Visions of Cody" are my favorites, but I don't
know if they're
"great" literature or not, that doesn't concern me.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland, ky
watching birds
eat worms
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:05:02 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pinkie <sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane Carter
wrote:
> I doubt
Burroughs in his
> last days
would have advised any young person to become an addict.
=== Burroughs
went to his grave insisting that junk, and all drugs,
should be
completely legalized, and that it was much less harmful than
many other
American pasttimes.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland -
kentucky
where pumpkins
are sexy
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:19:24 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Old Sarge <sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Michael R. Brown
wrote:
> it is quite
irrelevant if everyone applauds
> your
derring-do, you are destroying yourself.
=== To destroy
ourselves is an intrinsic human right.
> None of the
three died
> early from
self-abusive behavior.
=== Some people
are tougher than others. It's a miracle WSB lived to
such a ripe old
age. Jack wasn't as durable and cashed in his chips
earlier. That's
just the way the cookie crumbles.
> > He
*wanted* to be self-destructive. No one could stop him.
>
> With a mind
like his, he could have if he'd wished.
=== But he
*DIDN'T* wish to!! That's the whole freakin' point. Why can't
you people
respect the man's wishes??
>
> Die young
and leave a good-looking corpus, eh?
=== No, more like
Do What Thou Wilt with your own life, even if that
means running it
into the ground. Age and beauty have nothing to do with
it.
> > We have
no choice but to accept his actions and his philosophy.
>
>
Fiddelsticks. He blew it big-time at the end.
=== That is
*your* opinion, and it obviously differs from Kerouac's own
opinion, and it
was HIS life so he's the final authority.
> Good insight
- but better to find a working reconciliation
> between
one's nihilistic and idealistic thrusts
=== I think
that's what Kerouac *was* doing.... I mean, it's not like he
was talking like
Nietzsche or DeSade or something.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland
my old kentucky
home
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:42:44 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Old Sarge <sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Michael R. Brown
wrote:
> Because his
wishes were not omnipotent. I don't give a rat's ass
> what Jack
_wished_ if it led to the deterioration of his writing,
> his life,
his body, and his ability to get out of the house and
>away from
Momma.
=== I can't
believe I'm actually hearing this. We indeed live, as
Burroughs stated,
in "a nation where no one is allowed to mind his own
business."
Jack's wishes should be the final word. Something Sampas
doesn't
understand, either.
> If, as
you've said, everything is permitted, then judgment and
> disapproval
- and love with them - are permitted too.
=== Well, I said
it but in an ironic sense, plus I was only quoting
Burroughs, who
was in turn quoting Hassan I Sabbah.
> > === No,
more like Do What Thou Wilt with your own life, even if that
> > means
running it into the ground.
>
> Ja. And I am
doing what I wilt with my life in smacking Jack on
> his little
footballer's ass for blowing a chance.
=== But your
will, then, is to intervene, whereas mine is to simply let
events take their
course. The urge to intervene and thus impose one's
will on others
can be an ugly disease of the ego. If Jack Kerouac were
about to jump off
a bridge, I would try to talk him out of it, of
course, but if I
failed and he insisted on jumping, I would not
physically
attempt to stop him.
> Ehh,
"corpus" in this context meant literary canon - totality of opera
> omnia, you
know?
=== I got the
pun. I was remarking on the "die young" part.
> * laughter *
And who else's opinion does it have to be?
=== Jack Fucking
Kerouac's. And no one else's.
> That's what
criticism is all about, my dear.
=== And we all
know that critics are about as useful and as beloved as
lawyers.
And I beseech
thee to remember Burroughs' reply when Kerouac called him
"my
dear".
There is a
difference between being critical and being judgmental. I
know Kerouac did
a lot of bad things and stupid things. This is being
critical. But I
*Don't* say he shouldn't have done them and I don't hold
it against him
and I refuse to treat him as if he was some sort of
misguided mental
patient who needed help. And I don't say he was wrong
for doing these
bad things. This is being judgmental. Kerouac simply
WAS, and the
things he did simply WERE. Accept them , and thusly accept
Kerouac himself,
totally.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, ky
watching the
skies
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:57:46 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mary Celeste
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: Gerry's comments on JK's ruined life
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> Really, Mr.
Holland (or is it "Old Sarge," or is it "Helicopter
> Man"?)
what is the meaning of all these different internet names!??
=== It has
something to do with inconsistency and hobgoblins.
>
> In any case,
what is your basis for saying Kerouac didn't think he ruined
> his life?
=== I didn't
exactly say that. He didn't seem to think he was ruining
his life at the
moments he was doing these 'bad' things....the regrets
came LATER.....I
said that *I* didn't NECESSARILY think he ruined his
life. And whether
he thought he did or not, he did what he did on his
own free will. No
one was pointing a gun at his head. Sure, Kerouac
expressed
regrets, but did he change? Not really. He behaved the way he
behaved, for
better or for worse. I'm not endorsing his behavior, but to
some people who
have been in the mouth of hell and back, his actions may
make a little
sense than to others who sit on the outside and scratch
their heads in
wonder. I don't mean to say that I completely understand
Kerouac - far
from it - but I give him benefit of the doubt, just as I
would a relative
who has done terrible things.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland - ky
"In the year
2000 there will be no election"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 10:31:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey Jerry
let me tell you pal- if you are thinking
about quitting your day job to
be a detective- i
have some advice for you- DONT! You dont know me pal, and
you dont want to
know me.
I keep thinking that one day I might
get around to reading your book,
but know now
after that little piece of flightful fancy fluff that meant
absolutely
nothing- that i never will.
Best always Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 10:38:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Okay
on a more serious note- i personally do not
accept everything that Jack
wrote as being
great- in fact i think quite a bit of garbage was published
under his name-
Pic comes to mind- Satori in Paris as well- and also a whole
lot of his poetry
was really just rambling thoughts that meant only something
to him.
But- i owe an amazing debt to the man-
for awakening me to the idea
that a big
intersesting beautiful world existed out there- and if I didnt get
off my butt I
would just let it pass by.
Also- as a practicing Buddhist- I see
the inherent weaknesses of Some
of the Dharma-
Jack was not exactly the greatest Buddhist teacher to come down
the pike- but it
is has much beauty in there and is well worth the read.
Excuse my anger somewhat- tho I have no
regrets for my comments- I feel
kinda bad about
lashing out- and therefore willl repeat Om Mani Padme Hum 20
times to erase
whatever bad karma i might have incrued by my actions.
Gene Lee
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:09:04 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Dillinger
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Outpost, 129 S.1st Street, Richmond, KY 40475
Subject: WSB, drugs, advice, meddling
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> But that
doesn't mean that he advised people to take them. Just that they
> should not
be against that law. Two different
propositions here.
=== WSB wasn't
the type to advise anyone to take drugs, be they young or
old, or be he in
his "last days" or earlier. He also, pointedly, was not
the type to
advise someone NOT to take them. WSB was a Johnson and tried
not to meddle in
the affairs of others.
=-=-=-=
jsh ky
baaaaa
=-=-=-=
>
> Pinkie
wrote:
>
> > Diane
Carter wrote:
> >
> > > I
doubt Burroughs in his
> > >
last days would have advised any young person to become an addict.
> >
> > ===
Burroughs went to his grave insisting that junk, and all drugs,
> > should
be completely legalized, and that it was much less harmful than
> > many
other American pasttimes.
> >
> >
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >
J.S.Holland - kentucky
> > where
pumpkins are sexy
> >
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:26:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, GTL1951 wrote:
> I keep thinking that one day I might
get around to reading your book,
> but know now
after that little piece of flightful fancy fluff that meant
> absolutely
nothing- that i never will.
Self-imposed
limitation is a sad thing.
> Best
always Gene
Mmhmmm.
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + - + -
+ - +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:29:28 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, GTL1951 wrote:
> Excuse my anger somewhat- tho I have no
regrets for my comments- I feel
> kinda bad
about lashing out- and therefore willl repeat Om Mani Padme Hum 20
> times to
erase whatever bad karma i might have incrued by my actions.
> Gene
Lee
Emperor: What
merit will I accumulate by practicing Zen?
Zennist: No merit,
no accumulation.
Emperor: What is
the point, then?
Zennist: No
point.
Emperor: Who are
you?
Zennist: Don't
know.
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:37:45 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, Kim Carsons wrote:
> === When
someone changes from the way we liked them, why do people
> always say
they went off track?
Acting
self-destructively is much more than merely "going off the
track" and
"changing from the way we liked them." Our bodies have certain
objectively-existing
limits and needs. When you go past these limits or do
not take care of
those needs, it is quite irrelevant if everyone applauds
your derring-do,
you are destroying yourself.
> Everyone
from Miles Davis to John Lennon to William S.Burroughs has
> been accused
to having "gone off" just because they stopped doing what
> was expected
of them.
Davis and
Burroughs were lucky to have survived and remained relatively
functional with
what they did to their bodies. None of the three died
early from
self-abusive behavior.
> He *wanted*
to be self-destructive. No one could stop him.
With a mind like
his, he could have if he'd wished.
> It isn't
"off track" to be on a NEW track, even if it's a train to nowhere.
Die young and
leave a good-looking corpus, eh?
> We have no
choice but to accept his actions and his philosophy.
Fiddelsticks. He
blew it big-time at the end.
> Being a
nihilist can be a way for an idealist to psychically recharge
> their
batteries.
Good insight -
but better to find a working reconciliation between one's
nihilistic and
idealistic thrusts, as Burroughs attempted to.
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + - +
- + -
+ - +
- + - +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:40:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Im actually
enjoying Satori in Paris right now, I think its a nice change
of pace from his
heavier stuff.
>Okay
> on a more serious note- i personally do not
accept everything that Jack
>wrote as
being great- in fact i think quite a bit of garbage was published
>under his
name- Pic comes to mind- Satori in Paris as well- and also a whole
>lot of his
poetry was really just rambling thoughts that meant only something
>to him.
> But- i owe an amazing debt to the man-
for awakening me to the idea
>that a big
intersesting beautiful world existed out there- and if I didnt get
>off my butt I
would just let it pass by.
> Also- as a practicing Buddhist- I see
the inherent weaknesses of Some
>of the
Dharma- Jack was not exactly the greatest Buddhist teacher to come down
>the pike- but
it is has much beauty in there and is well worth the read.
> Excuse my anger somewhat- tho I have no
regrets for my comments- I feel
>kinda bad
about lashing out- and therefore willl repeat Om Mani Padme Hum 20
>times to
erase whatever bad karma i might have incrued by my actions.
> Gene
Lee
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:02:05 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dutch Schultz
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Press, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY, 40473
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Michael R. Brown
wrote:
> All
criticism is invasive and coercive, eh? Who loves Jack more: you
> who would
see him formaldehyde himself, or me who would have raised
> a righteous
ruckus and maybe even kidnapped him off to a cabin to dry out?
=== Well, there's
the $64,000 question, and I one that I can't answer.
I'm just glad I'm
not faced with the decision to kidnap or not to
kidnap.
>
> > Jack's
wishes should be the final word.
>
> Guess
_Memory Babe_ should never have been written.
=== That's not
for me to judge. Jack is dead and only Jack knows if he
approves or not.
Me, I'm glad the book was written.
> False
dualism. One's will, even an intervening will, is part
> of events
taking their course. The will is not a stranger to the
> universe.
This is a false quietism: according to it, the natural
> course is
just for things to roll along, and all will or assertion
> an unnatural
disturbance.
=== There are
enough loopholes in the fibrous material between reality
and linguistics that
we could bat this one back and forth for days. My
position, simply,
is that I prefer to let events take their course, with
notable
exceptions being that I intervene against people who do NOT want
to let other
people's events take their course. In other words, I might
not intervene to
stop a suicide, but I would certainly intervene to stop
a murder.
> No urge, no
imposition, no ego. Just action and empathy.
=== but in my
empathy, I empathize with him as to why he did the things
that he did. Had I been a friend of his, I would not have
made direct
intervention to
stop him. I would let my opinion be
known but I would
not preach to him
and berate him, even if it's "for his own good".
> If you are
concerned with diseases of the ego, why are you reifying
>
ego-decisions and ego-wishes of Kerouac's into unquestionable law?
=== huh? All I'm
saying is that Kerouac should have the final say
regarding what he
does in his life, as should we all. I would not
presume to tell
Jack Kerouac what he should or not should do.
> Then cease
criticizing.
=== Oh, but
criticizing criticisms is okay. In fact, it's our civic duty
;)
> > But I
*Don't* say he shouldn't have done them
>
> Like
Burroughs and [implicitly] his mentor Count Korzybski, I don't think
> the word
"should" has any meaning in reality.
=== me either.
that's precisely why I said I don't say he shouldn't have
done them.
> > and I
don't hold it against him
>
> I do.
=== why? It's his
business.
> I find that
"wrong" and "bad" are not very meaningful terms
=== I agree,
they're judgmental and subjective. Which is why I started
this whole thread
in the first place, because I'm hearing, or think I'm
hearing, people
saying he did "wrong" and "bad " things. Whereas my
attitude is
"he did what he did, and it's done. deal with it."
> > Kerouac
simply WAS, and the things he did simply WERE.
>
> No. Ever
hear of the interconnectedness of all things? Nothing just
>
"simply" is. The whole web is connected.
=== I
wholeheartedly agree, actually, but one could blow a gasket trying
to delineate the
difference between the levels on which we're both
approaching it.
Everything *is* connected, but there is still a level at
which we still
have to call a tree a tree. There is a sense in which
"each man's
death diminishes my life slightly", as I think John Donne
said, but there
is a more immediate sense where no, it probably doesn't.
To stay conscious
of the microscopic interconnectivity of everything
could drive one
mad, and it may just be that's what drove Kerouac to the
conclusion that
life had no meaning. Nothing is Everything, but the flip
side of the koan
is that Everything is Nothing. Not everyone manages to
cross that dark
night of the soul.
> an abstract
understanding of "things taking their own course," you
> have
dehumanized him - and yourself, insofar as you're expressing
> yourself
here.
=== then I
dehumanize myself as well, because it's how I expect, nay,
*demand* - to be
treated myself.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
J.S.Holland, ky
drinking amaretto
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:37:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, Old Sarge wrote:
> Michael R.
Brown wrote:
> > it is
quite irrelevant if everyone applauds
> > your
derring-do, you are destroying yourself.
> === To
destroy ourselves is an intrinsic human right.
Criticism denies
no right to action. I think everyone here is wel aware
that [GASP!]
people hold differing opinions and even weltanschuangen.
> > None of
the three died
> > early
from self-abusive behavior.
> === Some
people are tougher than others. It's a miracle WSB lived to
> such a ripe
old age.
Part-miracle, and
part that strange rational medical judiciousness on
Bill's part. No
accident oneof his major routines was _Doctor_ BenWay.
Bill took himself
just to the edge medically - so that he could go to and
over the edge
spiritually.
> Jack wasn't
as durable and cashed in his chips earlier.
Jack fucked
himself up worse and more continuously. And, no doubt, he was
not as hardy as
the frailer-seeming Bill.
> That's just
the way the cookie crumbles.
Life is short
enough. Defeatism just makes a short thing shorter.
> > > He
*wanted* to be self-destructive. No one could stop him.
> >
> > With a
mind like his, he could have if he'd wished.
>
> === But he
*DIDN'T* wish to!! That's the whole freakin' point. Why can't
> you people
respect the man's wishes??
Because his
wishes were not omnipotent. I don't give a rat's ass what Jack
_wished_ if it
led to the deterioration of his writing, his life, his
body, and his
ability to get out of the house and away from Momma. If, as
you've said,
everything is permitted, then judgment and disapproval - and
love with them -
are permitted too.
"I come not
because I loved Caesar less, but because I loved him more."
> > Die
young and leave a good-looking corpus, eh?
> === No, more
like Do What Thou Wilt with your own life, even if that
> means
running it into the ground.
Ja. And I am
doing what I wilt with my life in smacking Jack on his little
footballer's ass
for blowing a chance. And I'm flourishing, not wilting.
Age and beauty
have nothing to do with it.
Ehh,
"corpus" in this context meant literary canon - totality of opera
omnia, you know?
> > > We
have no choice but to accept his actions and his philosophy.
> >
Fiddelsticks. He blew it big-time at the end.
> === That is
*your* opinion
* laughter * And
who else's opinion does it have to be?
> and it
obviously differs from Kerouac's own opinion,
That's what
criticism is all about, my dear.
> and it was
HIS life so he's the final authority.
He had the
authority to live it. So?
> > Good
insight - but better to find a working reconciliation
> > between
one's nihilistic and idealistic thrusts
> === I think
that's what Kerouac *was* doing....
Probably was
trying. But in the end he gave in to his self-nihilating
thrusts. Unlike
Nietzsche or deSade, for instance.
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 10:04:52 -0800
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Message-ID:
<3501E5A4.2647@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Mar
1998 16:26:12 -0800
From: Mark
Johnson <ninmar@mindspring.com>
Reply-To:
ninmar@mindspring.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.04Gold (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: If
Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
References:
<199803071837.KAA17579@norway.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
A crazy
fantasy? Maybe. But think how much less suffering there
would have been
in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
"suppressing"
suffering, not adding to it?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
one.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Yeah, and if my
aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. For
better or worse,
Kerouac was
busier producing literature than Kodak moments.
Had he been
"straighter"
would we have the history and writing that are his true
legacy? Mark J
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 10:19:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Holland
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 01:19 Jeffrey
Holland wrote:
>
>> > We
have no choice but to accept his actions and his philosophy.
>>
>>
Fiddelsticks. He blew it big-time at the end.
>
>=== That is
*your* opinion, and it obviously differs from Kerouac's own
>opinion, and
it was HIS life so he's the final authority.
>
Really, Mr.
Holland (or is it "Old Sarge," or is it "Helicopter Man"?)
what
is the meaning of
all these different internet names!??
In any case, what
is your basis for saying Kerouac didn't think he ruined
his life? Did you ever read Ronny Lowe's memoirs of
Kerouac's last days in
Florida. He recounts an episode of taking Kerouac to a
minor league
baseball game,
and they watch Kerouac's favorite young pitcher blow a game.
Lowe says,
"Gee, Jack, I'm sorry you're favorite pitcher lost." Kerouac
says, painfully,
"Don't worry, he's got a lot more chances.
Unlike me."
Much of what Lowe
writes suggests that Kerouac was painfully aware of having
"blown"
his life. I'd like to see/hear your
evidence otherwise.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:03:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: AlienRains <AlienRains@AOL.COM>
Subject: New member
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey,
I will introduce
myself. I'm a senior in high
school. I am currently writing
a paper about
Allen Ginsberg for English. This is
probably the first time I
have actually
been interested in what I was writing about.
It seems like I
don't mind that
it has taken me literally days to complete this task, but I
really find his
life and poetry so interesting.
I guess I am so
excited because I too write poetry (at least I think that is
what it is). I started to write poetry about five years
ago, but I haven't
told anyone about
it. bye
Kelly
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:08:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yes
you are right- it aint that easy- why i keep
practicing- never said I had
it all down
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:15:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
So Michael
does that mean when we impose the self
limitations on ourselves of not
being terrible
human beings- not hurting and killing one another- not wasting
our precious time
on earth involved with useless and destructive things- is a
bad thing?
hmmmmmm Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:30:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
But that doesn't
mean that he advised people to take them.
Just that they
should not be
against that law. Two different
propositions here.
Pinkie wrote:
> Diane Carter
wrote:
>
> > I doubt
Burroughs in his
> > last
days would have advised any young person to become an addict.
>
> ===
Burroughs went to his grave insisting that junk, and all drugs,
> should be
completely legalized, and that it was much less harmful than
> many other
American pasttimes.
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> J.S.Holland
- kentucky
> where
pumpkins are sexy
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:32:32 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, Old Sarge wrote:
> Michael R.
Brown wrote:
> > Because
his wishes were not omnipotent. I don't give a rat's ass
> > what
Jack _wished_ if it led to the deterioration of his writing,
> > his
life, his body, and his ability to get out of the house and
> >away
from Momma.
> === I can't
believe I'm actually hearing this.
You don't see any
deterioration from the young hero who lived On the
Road to a
besotted alky squatting inthe matriarchal nest, afraid?
> We indeed
live, as Burroughs stated, in "a nation where no one is
> allowed to
mind his own business."
All criticism is
invasive and coercive, eh? Who loves Jack more: you
who would see him
formaldehyde himself, or me who would have raised
a righteous
ruckus and maybe even kidnapped him off to a cabin to dry out?
> Jack's
wishes should be the final word.
Guess _Memory
Babe_ should never have been written.
> Something
Sampas doesn't understand, either.
I'm a Nicosian,
thanks so much.
> > If, as
you've said, everything is permitted, then judgment and
> >
disapproval - and love with them - are permitted too.
> === Well, I
said it but in an ironic sense, plus I was only quoting
> Burroughs,
who was in turn quoting Hassan I Sabbah.
Then I guess criticism
is okay.
> > >
=== No, more like Do What Thou Wilt with your own life, even if that
> > >
means running it into the ground.
> > Ja. And
I am doing what I wilt with my life in smacking Jack on
> > his
little footballer's ass for blowing a chance.
> === But your
will, then, is to intervene, whereas mine is to simply let
> events take
their course.
False dualism.
One's will, even an intervening will, is part of events
taking their
course. The will is not a stranger to the universe. This is a
false quietism:
according to it, the natural course is just for things to
roll along, and
all will or assertion an unnatural disturbance. We're all
natural, baby.
This computer is natural. There _is_ no unnaturalness,
metaphysically;
it's just a descriptive term useful for connoting
psychological
situations: "working at IBM was so cold and corporate, it
was
unnatural." "He was very detached even when we had sex. He was
unnatural."
The Tao that can be deviated from is not the Tao. Kerouac
abided by the Tao
when he pickled himself; I abide by the Tao in scourging
him for it; you
abide by the Tao in scourging me for my scourging. And so
on - in excelsis
gloria.
> The urge to
intervene and thus impose one's will on others can be an
> ugly disease
of the ego.
No urge, no
imposition, no ego. Just action and empathy. The Bodhisattva
way includes
_upaya_ - skillful means of intervention.
> If Jack
Kerouac were about to jump off a bridge, I would try to talk him
> out of it,
of course, but if I failed and he insisted on jumping, I
> would not
physically attempt to stop him.
How
interventionist of you. ;)
Consider the
consequences. I'm just not that impressed with a momentary
break with
reality or state of despair. If Kerouac wanted to take his
life, he would
find a way. I wouldn't be hobbling him permanently - just
giving him the
chance to rethink/refeel it.
> > *
laughter * And who else's opinion does it have to be?
> === Jack
Fucking Kerouac's. And no one else's.
If you are
concerned with diseases of the ego, why are you reifying
ego-decisions and
ego-wishes of Kerouac's into unquestionable law?
> > That's
what criticism is all about, my dear.
> === And we
all know that critics are about as useful and as beloved as
> lawyers.
Then cease
criticizing.
> And I
beseech thee to remember Burroughs' reply when Kerouac called him
> "my
dear".
I've forgotten.
> There is a
difference between being critical and being judgmental.
Ahh, now there is
a difference.
> I know
Kerouac did a lot of bad things and stupid things. This is being
> critical.
Which is exactly
what Gerry said, with more emphasis.
> But I
*Don't* say he shouldn't have done them
Like Burroughs
and [implicitly] his mentor Count Korzybski, I don't think
the word
"should" has any meaning in reality. So strike one.
> and I don't
hold it against him
I do.
> and I refuse
to treat him as if he was some sort of misguided mental
> patient who
needed help.
Inappropriate
metaphor. Kerouac was sometimes in need of intervention, and
sometimes not. He
wasn't a helpless goofball all his life, and he wasn't
in full
possession of his faculties all his life either.
> And I don't
say he was wrong for doing these bad things.
I find that
"wrong" and "bad" are not very meaningful terms, unless
they
are used in the
sense of a tender empathy for life. To my mind, Elie
Wiesel offered
the _only_ defensible idea of right and wrong, in a speech
he gave at the
White House that passed almost unnoticed: to paraphrase,
the good is that
which supports life and heightens sensitivity to life;
the evil is that
which destroys life and lessens sensitivity to life.
This hooks in
obviously with lots of Ginsberg's work, as well as
Burroughs' last journal
entry on love, and the Whitman-Lawrence axis that
was part of the
historical background of Beat literature.
We've had many
thousands of years of judgemental abstract "objective"
moralities, and
they have failed: because when one gets down to it, they
wind up being the
imposition of a transcendental concept [derived from we
know not where]
upon the flow of life. It's not structurally tenable.
> This is
being judgmental.
Criticism out of
love, empathy, and support is not. Criticism out of
alienated
moralism is.
> Kerouac
simply WAS, and the things he did simply WERE.
No. Ever hear of
the interconnectedness of all things? Nothing just
"simply"
is. The whole web is connected.
> Accept them
, and thusly accept Kerouac himself, totally.
Will you smile
when I say I accept him more wholly than you do? You have
lit upon a
partial truth, but you withhold your natural empathy and
concern and
engagement from him. In the name of abstract independence and
an abstract
understanding of "things taking their own course," you have
dehumanized him -
and yourself, insofar as you're expressing yourself
here.
If I had been in
Kerouac's life, he would have had me, shirt off,
struggling for
and against him at one. That's the way of the earthly
angel.
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - + - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:39:11 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: Gerry's comments on JK's ruined life
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, Mary Celeste wrote:
> Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> > Really,
Mr. Holland (or is it "Old Sarge," or is it "Helicopter
> >
Man"?) what is the meaning of all these different internet names!??
> === It has
something to do with inconsistency and hobgoblins.
"They know
not the subtle ways ... " (Emerson, _Brahma_)
> > In any
case, what is your basis for saying Kerouac didn't think he ruined
> > his
life?
> === I didn't
exactly say that. He didn't seem to think he was ruining
> his life at
the moments he was doing these 'bad' things....the regrets
> came
LATER.....
Yes, when it was
too late.
> I said that
*I* didn't NECESSARILY think he ruined his
> life. And
whether he thought he did or not, he did what he did on his
> own free
will. No one was pointing a gun at his head.
Another
fuzzy-thought false dichotomy. The alternative is not
leave-the-guy-alone-to-drink-and-hide
versus point-a-gun-at-his-head.
There is an, ahh,
Middle Way, you know?
> Sure,
Kerouac expressed regrets, but did he change? Not really.
Perhaps because
friends left him in the lurch. We're not solitary
individualistic
atoms. We're social primates, and sometimes a spanking and
a caress together
is what's needed.
> He behaved
the way he behaved, for better or for worse.
Like Buddha, like
Hitler. So?
> I'm not
endorsing his behavior, but to some people who have been in the
> mouth of
hell and back, his actions may make a little sense than to
> others who
sit on the outside and scratch their heads in wonder.
Do you think the
only respectful thing we may do for another human being
is observe them
and spout off words, while respectfully maintaining a
distance, and let
"events take their course?"
> I don't mean
to say that I completely understand Kerouac - far from it -
> but I give
him benefit of the doubt, just as I would a relative who has
> done
terrible things.
I give him the
benefit of the doubt and I'd stride in there and try to
help. Again and
again. And take fisticuffs if it was needed.
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:44:20 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, GTL1951 wrote:
> So Michael
> does that mean when we impose the self
limitations on ourselves of not
> being
terrible human beings- not hurting and killing one another- not wasting
> our precious
time on earth involved with useless and destructive things- is a
> bad thing?
"Bad"
means nothing apart from empathy. Here's my counter-question: do you
think human
nature is so corrupt and bestial - so Originally tained - that
we need to
_impose_ such limitations? Or are they not expressions of one's
true nature,
articulated to guide us in emergencies and stressful times?
I hew to the latter.
As some Buddhist,
it might have been the present Dalai Lama, said: "The
Bodhisattvic Vows
are descriptive, not prescriptive. The Bodhisattva acts
this way
naturally, spontaneously, not in accordance with any guiding
precept or
morality."
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown
foosi@global.california.com
http://www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to
your very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + - +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:46:21 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I've often
thought of what ifs as well. What if
Edie Parker told Jack she
was pregnant and
they had gotten married then and had a son together.
Also, the Pretty
Girls Make Graves line on pg 151 is quoted a lot and gets
a lot of
play. But overlooked is that it is the
last line of a five page
prose-poem type
piece that starts off: "STRANGE CEMETARY IN JAMAICA"
It comes as part
of this 5 page piece on graveyards, life and death.
Pages 147 - 151
And the
"pretty girls" line certainly is anger or hatred at God or natural
selection rather
than at women.
It is also
indictative of Kerouac's knowing himself and how "messed up"
that anger is
that immediately after the 5 page piece inspired the Jamaica
cemetary he
re-iterates the 8 points of the 8 fold path, as if he were
trying to remind
himself and convince himself that this 8 fold way could be
the anitidote to
the disease that bothered him. I think
it also acts as a
type of
confession tacked on to the Jamaica garveyard piece in that by
including that he
is acknowledging how misanthropic his thoughts and
feelings become
in this graveyard meditation.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:46:21 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Sun, 8 Mar
1998, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> But that
doesn't mean that he advised people to take them. Just that they
> should not
be against that law. Two different
propositions here.
Bravo, RBK.
Burroughs was a libertarian. His letters in the 1940s-1950s
series contain
very insightful if bilious criticisms of socialism. At the
same time, he was
against the sinister military-industrial cartel complex
as well.
> Pinkie
wrote:
>
> > Diane
Carter wrote:
> >
> > > I
doubt Burroughs in his
> > >
last days would have advised any young person to become an addict.
> >
> > ===
Burroughs went to his grave insisting that junk, and all drugs,
> > should
be completely legalized, and that it was much less harmful than
> > many
other American pasttimes.
> >
> >
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >
J.S.Holland - kentucky
> > where
pumpkins are sexy
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Michael R. Brown foosi@global.california.com
www.marymaclane.com - coming soon to your
very own brouser
+ -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- + -
+ - +
- +
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:24:34 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: New member
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
AlienRains wrote:
>
> Hey,
> I will
introduce myself. I'm a senior in high
school. I am currently writing
> a paper
about Allen Ginsberg for English. This
is probably the first time I
> have
actually been interested in what I was writing about. It seems like I
> don't mind
that it has taken me literally days to complete this task, but I
> really find
his life and poetry so interesting.
> I guess I am
so excited because I too write poetry (at least I think that is
> what it is).
I started to write poetry about five
years ago, but I haven't
> told anyone
about it. bye
> Kelly
Hey, great to
hear from you. I found just trying to
write has improved
my reading, and
vice versa. I wrote a journal for years
and put a lot
of poetry in
there. I found it helped me express
observations. What is
the theme of your
paper on Allen?
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:39:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "A ROARING, RAGTIME, EPIC."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Regarding heroin
vs alcohol, it's true, booze is a pure toxin while heroin is
far less toxic.
Notice that most deaths connected with heroin are because the
strength is
unkown or it is cut with some sort of garbage. Those deaths would
be eliminated
with legalized heroin.
There is an
interesting letter reprinted in the anniversary issue of TIME from
Aldous Huxley.
When his DOORS OF PERCEPTION appeared, he was accused of wanting
mescaline to take
the place of the martini as far as social drug use was
cocerned. Huxley
said in his reprinted letter that no, that was not what he
said, that he
thought mescaline had too many drawbacks to be used as a
repalcement for
the after dinner drink but indicated something should, as booze
isn't exactly the
best recreational substance to play around with. Check it
out.
As for me, I'd
rather have an after-dinner peyote button than a scotch!
----Dave B.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:42:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "A ROARING, RAGTIME, EPIC."
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Welcome aboard
Kelly. Show us one of your poems if you want to.
Dave B.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:53:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Some of the DHARMA beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For a look at
Some of the Dharma from a practicing Buddhist's point of view,
don't miss the
upcoming issue of DHARMA beat, which contains a review by Dan
Barth, writer and
teacher, whose stuff has been appearing here lately,
forwarded by
Gregory Severance.
Dan has great
credentials, and an expert point of view on the matter. To
subscribe to
DHARMA beat, or to request a copy, write to Attila Gyenis at
GYENIS@aol.com.
For those of you
who haven't known me before, I've been working for the last
year on a long
investigative piece on the Jack Kerouac archive controversy.
I've now
completed my research and interviews and am ready to publish. It is a
much different
story than you've had the opportunity to hear so far.
In the process of
doing research for that story, I came upon some breaking
news regarding
the Estate of Jan Kerouac. I've put this information on a
webpage and
published it this morning. I've asked Joe Grant at BookZen to link
it to his site.
I hope you'll all
take the time to read it. The url is:
<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/Jackofdays/background.html">Jan
Kerouac: In
the
background</A> , or http://members.aol.com/Jackofdays/background.html
Please let me
know if you have questions or comments on my story.
Thanks
Diane
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:21:12 +0000
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: james stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Micheline Memorial/Tribute in L.A.]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> forwarded
from sa griffin in LA
>
> THIS CAT ATE
EVERYTHING
>
>
Memorial/tribute for Jack Micheline, Saturday the 28th of March, 5p.m. at
> Skylight
Books in Los Angeles. If anyone is interested in participating
> please
contact me, S.A. Griffin, at my email address :
>
sagriffin@mindspring.com
>
>
------------------------
>
> all the best
> s.a.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:20:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Could someone
tell if my posts are getting through my responding to this?
Sorry about the
spam...
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:26:31 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Loud and clear.
----------
> From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject:
> Date:
Sunday, March 08, 1998 5:20 PM
>
> Could
someone tell if my posts are getting through my responding to this?
> Sorry about
the spam...
> ***I'm in
the milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:27:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Thank you! I was
wondering because I got no response to my last two posts
about the reading
in Queens and my reaction to that what if letter.
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:33:57 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Artaud: 4 Sep 1896--4 Mar 1948
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gregory Severance
wrote on 3/4/98:
>>Antonin
Artaud died 50 years ago (Mar. 4, 1948) in
>>Ivry-sur-Seine,
France.
>>
>>Here's a
passage from an essay by Susan Sontag:
>>
>> Both in his work and in his life, Artaud
>> failed. His work includes verse; prose
[.
. . .snip. . . .]
>> phenomenology of suffering.(pp. xix-xx)
>>
>> _Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings_, ed.
>> and with an introduction by Susan Sontag
>> (Berkeley: University of California Press,
>> 1988).
Jeffrey Perchuk
responded on 3/8/98:
>The excerpt
from Sontag was interesting, though highly annoying.
>It always
annoys me to see a great artist ripped apart by a
>dilettante
who is obviously eaten up with hatred and envy.
>I'll take a
fucking LAUNDRY LIST by Artaud any day before the
>finest thing
Sontag has ever written. Who the hell is SHE to so
>airily
dismiss the work of an artist she cannot even begin to
>understand,
much less surpass? Especially when she is writing
>as the editor
of an anthology of his work! Even if what she
>said were
true, people will still be marveling at Artaud's
>life and work
long after Sontag's name has been forgotten. If
>Sontag
insists on playing Griswold to Artaud's Poe, then the
>very least
the rest of us can do is say something in response.
>Artaud is
dead, to be sure, but he speaks more eloquently than
>Sontag ever
will, even if she lives to be one hundred years old.
>WHEN are we
going to stop this absurd practice of listening to
>contemporary
writers savage the reputations of earlier authors
>just because
they feel the urge to commit their names to the
>printed page
one more time?
>
>Her arrogance
is almost as boundless as her stupidity.
Gregory Severance
replies on Mar. 8, 1998 from
Brooklyn, New
York, America:
Hmmmmmmm . . .
Jeffrey, based on
the tone of your response, I believe that
you were annoyed
by the excerpt from Susan Sontag's essay that
I posted on Mar.
4. I also believe you when you say:
It always annoys me to see a great artist
ripped
apart by a dilettante who is obviously
eaten up
with hatred and envy. I'll take a fucking
LAUNDRY
LIST by Artaud any day before the finest
thing Sontag
has ever written. (Jeffrey Perchuk in post
to BEAT-L
on Mar. 8, 1998)
I disagree with
everything else you say in your response. Also,
I neither
perceive Sontag as "a dillettante who is obviously
eaten up with
hatred and envy" nor that she ripped Artaud
apart in the
passage I quoted or in the essay the passage is
extracted from.
Here's more from
Sontag's essay:
[Artaud's]. . . activities, however
dispersed they may
have been, always reflect Artaud's quest
for a total art
form, into which the others would
merge--as art itself
would merge into life.
Paradoxically, it was this very
denial of indepen-
dence to the different territories of art
which brought
Artaud to do what none of the Surrealists
had even
attempted: completely rethink one art
form. Upon that
art, theater, he has had an impact so
profound that the
course of all recent serious theater in
Western Europe
and the Americas can be said to divide
into two periods--
before Artaud and after Artaud. No one who
works in the
theater now is untouched by the impact of
Artaud's
specific ideas about the actor's body and
voice, the
use of music, the role of the written
text, the interplay
between the space occupied by the
spectacle and the
audience's space. Artaud changed the
understanding of
what was serious, what was worth doing.
Brecht is the
century's only other writer on the theater
whose
importance and profundity conceivably
rival Artaud's.
But Artaud did not succeed in affecting
the conscience
of the modern theater by himself being, as
Brecht was,
a great director. His influence derives no
support
from the evidence of his own productions.
His practical
work in the theater between 1926 and 1935
was apparently
so unseductive that it has left virtually
no trace,
whereas the idea of theater on behalf of
which he urged
his productions upon an unreceptive public
has become
ever more potent. (p. xxxviii)
_Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings_, ed.
and with an
introduction by Susan Sontag, trans. Helen
Weaver
(Berkeley: University of California Press,
1988).
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
"Have you
ever been experienced?
Not necessarily stoned but
Beautiful."
"Are You
Experienced?"
by Jimi Hendrix
on The Jimi
Hendrix Experience's 1967 album:
_Are You
Experienced_ (Reprise 6261)
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:43:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Artaud: 4 Sep 1896--4 Mar 1948
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:42 PM
3/4/98 -0000, you wrote:
>Antonin
Artaud died 50 years ago (Mar. 4, 1948) in
>Ivry-sur-Seine,
France.
>
>Here's a
passage from an essay by Susan Sontag:
>
> Both in his work and in his life, Artaud
> failed. His work includes verse; prose
> poems; film scripts; writings on cinema,
> painting, and literature; essays,
diatribes,
> and polemics on the theater; several
plays,
> and notes for many unrealized theater
> projects, among them an opera; a
historical
> novel; a four-part dramatic monologue
> written for radio; essays on the peyote
> cult of the Tarahumara Indians; radiant
> appearances in two great films (Gance's
> _Napoleon_ and Dreyer's _The Passion of
> Joan of Arc_) and many minor ones; and
> hundreds of letters, his most accomplished
> "dramatic" form--all of which
amount to
> a broken, self-mutilated corpus, a vast
> collection of fragments. What he
bequeathed
> was not achieved works of art but a
> singular presence, a poetics, an
aesthetics
> of thought, a theology of culture, and a
> phenomenology of suffering.(pp. xix-xx)
>
> _Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings_, ed.
> and with an introduction by Susan Sontag
> (Berkeley: University of California Press,
> 1988).
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
>
> <<BULLDOG BREATH>>
> http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
>
> <<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
>
>*******************************************************
>
>
The excerpt from
Sontag was interesting, though highly annoying. It always
annoys me to see
a great artist ripped apart by a dilettante who is
obviously eaten
up with hatred and envy. I'll take a fucking LAUNDRY LIST by
Artaud any day
before the finest thing Sontag has ever written. Who the hell
is SHE to so
airily dismiss the work of an artist she cannot even begin to
understand, much
less surpass? Especially when she is writing as the editor
of an anthology
of his work! Even if what she said were true, people will
still be
marveling at Artaud's life and work long after Sontag's name has
been forgotten.
If Sontag insists on playing Griswold to Artaud's Poe, then
the very least
the rest of us can do is say something in response. Artaud is
dead, to be sure,
but he speaks more eloquently than Sontag ever will, even
if she lives to
be one hundred years old. WHEN are we going to stop this
absurd practice
of listening to contemporary writers savage the reputations
of earlier
authors just because they feel the urge to commit their names to
the printed page
one more time?
Her arrogance is
almost as boundless as her stupidity.
Jeez!
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:54:19 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Artaud: 4 Sep 1896--4 Mar 1948
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy Brodsky
wrote on 3/9/98:
>I have to
agree with Jefferey on this one. Have you ever read
>"Interpretation"by
Sontag? Enough said..
No. But I'd like
to. Is it an essay? Where can
I find it?
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
* Gregory
Severance *
*
morocco@walrus.com *
*
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/ *
* *
* "War! What
is it good for? *
* Absolutely nothing. *
* Say it again." *
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:13:00 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Some of the DHARMA beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>For a look at
Some of the Dharma from a practicing Buddhist's point of view,
>don't miss
the upcoming issue of DHARMA beat, which contains a review by Dan
>Barth, writer
and teacher, whose stuff has been appearing here lately,
>forwarded by
Gregory Severance.
>
>Dan has great
credentials, and an expert point of view on the matter. To
>subscribe to
DHARMA beat, or to request a copy, write to Attila Gyenis at
>GYENIS@aol.com.
>
>For those of
you who haven't known me before, I've been working for the last
>year on a
long investigative piece on the Jack Kerouac archive controversy.
>I've now
completed my research and interviews and am ready to publish. It is a
>much
different story than you've had the opportunity to hear so far.
>
>In the
process of doing research for that story, I came upon some breaking
>news
regarding the Estate of Jan Kerouac. I've put this information on a
>webpage and
published it this morning. I've asked Joe Grant at BookZen to link
>it to his
site.
>
>I hope you'll
all take the time to read it. The url is:
><A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/Jackofdays/background.html">Jan
Kerouac: In
>the
background</A> , or http://members.aol.com/Jackofdays/background.html
>
>Please let me
know if you have questions or comments on my story.
>
>Thanks
>Diane
Where will you
publish this article?
I did your the
piece at your web site. I assume this is
not the piece you
mention
above. I must say that what I read did
not provide me with any
details or
information that clarified this controversey.
It was a nice
literary approach in that it was the a story of the intrepid
journalist who
was sympathetic to the cries of injustice from Gerry Nicosia
even up to the
point where the Sampas are seen as "evil" in the journalists
eyes.
But then, slowly
but surely the tables change and a fuller picture comes
forth and in fact
it is Gerry Nicosia who is the heavy "unstable" bad guy.
It is intriguing,
but I did not read any details. Where is
the beef?
There was the
issue of the $20ooo check from bancroft library. But there
was no real depth
and the statement that the UC Berlekely lawyers advised
giving the check
to Nicosia was not addressed as to the UC officials
reasons.
I have no idea
about these lawsuits. I don't know who
is right or wrong,
is there a forged
will etc...That is impossible for me to know.
Hopefully
the legal system
will work in that regard. In the time
being we can
appreciate the
books that the estate has put out. I
feel that Book of
Blues, The
Letters, Some of the Dharma, the picture biography are all nice
publications and
this is very appreciated by me as a member of the general
public.
Diane, I am just
trying to point out that whereas your piece did act as an
op-ed I think it
did fail as an investigative piece because there was
little if any
actual details or quotes provided.
Now I will bring
up something that is bound to cause unpleasantness (and I
am sure Gerry
will not overlook this).
Your Jackofdays
book proposal where a quote from kerouac is used for each
day of the year
sounds like a great idea. I like
it. But would not this
necessitate the
cooperation and approval of the estate?
I am implying
what I am implying, yes, but in a question form. Not as an
accusation of any
sort. I appreciated reading what you
wrote and look
forward to
reading the full article you mention, so please let us know
where it will be
published.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:23:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sedington <Sedington@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jack's Grandparents
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Chris Dumond
asked about Jack's grandparents. They are part of a book I've
written and hope
to self-publish before too much longer called "Kerouac's
Nashua
Connection". I live in Nashua, NH ("Lacoshua" of Town &
City) and
really got going
on the Kerouac genealogy a few years ago. My home is about a
five minute drive
from the cemetery where Jack's grandparents, parents (Leo
and Gabrielle),
brother Gerard, Aunt Mary Louise, and daughter Jan are buried.
Jack's paternal
grandparents are Jean Baptiste and Clementine Bernier
Kerouac--mentioned
in Jack's intro to "Lonesome Traveler." They emigrated from
St. Hubert,
Quebec in 1890 and settled in Nashua. Jean Baptiste died in 1906
at age 58 and
Clementine in 1908 at age 59. Although Jack writes in several
places as if he
knew his grandfather, Jean Baptiste actually died 16 years
before Jack was
born.
Gabrielle's
parents were Louis Levesque and Josephene Jean Levesque. They,
too, emigrated
from Quebec, but I cannot determine exactly when. They were
married in
Nashua on May 7, 1894. Gabrielle was
actually born in St. Pacome,
Quebec in
1895--Josephene went back up there to have her baby. Jack mentions
this in
"Desolation Angels" saying that Gabrielle had a twin sister who died
at birth. Jack
also implies in the same "DA" passage that Josephene died
giving birth to
Gabrielle, but she actually died in Nashua about a year
later--possibly
while giving birth to another daughter. She was only 20 years
old.
While I'm on
this, Gabrielle was never really an orphan--if an orphan is a
child who loses
both parents--although Jack plays up the "my mother was an
orphan" line
in various places in his novels. Gabrielle Levesque lived with
her father,
Louis, and his second wife (Louis remarried in 1904 to an Amanda
Dube) until
Louis' sudden death in 1911, by which time Gabrielle was 16.
Gabrielle and her
step-mother stayed in touch until Amanda's death sometime in
the early 1950s.
Amanda is the "Aunt Ti Ma" in "Vanity of Duluoz" with whom
Jack lived in
Brooklyn while attending Horace Mann. By then (1939) Amanda had
remarried to
Peter Adamakis--"Nick the Greek Evangelakos" of "VD"--and
had
relocated to
Brooklyn, NY.
Well, Chris, you
asked a simple question and got, I'm sure, one hell of a lot
more answer than
you wanted! Sorry about that. I hope to get whole book out
one of these
times.
Take care--Steve
Edington
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:02:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: Re: WSB, Junk, Kerouac, Booze, etc.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> sensibility
that probably can not preclude suffering.
But god save the
> fool who
thinks a drink will elevate his writing.
Well said... Maybe minus the "god save" part,
but that's just a personal
observation on my
part :)
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
| "All human beings are
becoming humanoids...
| All over the world, not just in
America.
| We're just getting there faster
| since we're the most advanced
country."
|
| --
From The Movie "Network"
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:18:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: AG's America
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone know
if there are biographical/autobiographical accounts of
AG's experience
with communism when he was a boy, as referred to in the
poem,
"America" where writes "momma took me to communist cell meetings
when
I was 7", or
something to that effect anyway. I have a copy of Dharma Lion
but I can't find
much on his communist influence in it. Any leads would be
appreciated.
Thanks!
~Nancy
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:38:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Artaud: 4 Sep 1896--4 Mar 1948
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have to agree
with Jefferey on this one. Have you ever read
"Interpretation"by
Sontag? Enough said..
>Gregory
Severance wrote on 3/4/98:
>>>Antonin
Artaud died 50 years ago (Mar. 4, 1948) in
>>>Ivry-sur-Seine,
France.
>>>
>>>Here's
a passage from an essay by Susan Sontag:
>>>
>>> Both in his work and in his life, Artaud
>>> failed. His work includes verse; prose
>
> [. . . .snip. . . .]
>
>>> phenomenology of suffering.(pp. xix-xx)
>>>
>>> _Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings_, ed.
>>> and with an introduction by Susan Sontag
>>> (Berkeley: University of California Press,
>>> 1988).
>
>Jeffrey Perchuk
responded on 3/8/98:
>>The
excerpt from Sontag was interesting, though highly annoying.
>>It always
annoys me to see a great artist ripped apart by a
>>dilettante
who is obviously eaten up with hatred and envy.
>>I'll take
a fucking LAUNDRY LIST by Artaud any day before the
>>finest
thing Sontag has ever written. Who the hell is SHE to so
>>airily
dismiss the work of an artist she cannot even begin to
>>understand,
much less surpass? Especially when she is writing
>>as the
editor of an anthology of his work! Even if what she
>>said were
true, people will still be marveling at Artaud's
>>life and
work long after Sontag's name has been forgotten. If
>>Sontag
insists on playing Griswold to Artaud's Poe, then the
>>very
least the rest of us can do is say something in response.
>>Artaud is
dead, to be sure, but he speaks more eloquently than
>>Sontag
ever will, even if she lives to be one hundred years old.
>>WHEN are
we going to stop this absurd practice of listening to
>>contemporary
writers savage the reputations of earlier authors
>>just
because they feel the urge to commit their names to the
>>printed
page one more time?
>>
>>Her
arrogance is almost as boundless as her stupidity.
>
>Gregory
Severance replies on Mar. 8, 1998 from
>Brooklyn, New
York, America:
>Hmmmmmmm . .
.
>
>Jeffrey,
based on the tone of your response, I believe that
>you were
annoyed by the excerpt from Susan Sontag's essay that
>I posted on
Mar. 4. I also believe you when you say:
>
> It always annoys me to see a great artist
ripped
> apart by a dilettante who is obviously
eaten up
> with hatred and envy. I'll take a fucking
LAUNDRY
> LIST by Artaud any day before the finest
thing Sontag
> has ever written. (Jeffrey Perchuk in post
to BEAT-L
> on Mar. 8, 1998)
>
>I disagree
with everything else you say in your response. Also,
>I neither
perceive Sontag as "a dillettante who is obviously
>eaten up with
hatred and envy" nor that she ripped Artaud
>apart in the
passage I quoted or in the essay the passage is
>extracted
from.
>
>Here's more
from Sontag's essay:
>
> [Artaud's]. . . activities, however
dispersed they may
> have been, always reflect Artaud's quest
for a total art
> form, into which the others would merge--as
art itself
> would merge into life.
> Paradoxically, it was this very
denial of indepen-
> dence to the different territories of art
which brought
> Artaud to do what none of the Surrealists
had even
> attempted: completely rethink one art
form. Upon that
> art, theater, he has had an impact so
profound that the
> course of all recent serious theater in
Western Europe
> and the Americas can be said to divide
into two periods--
> before Artaud and after Artaud. No one who
works in the
> theater now is untouched by the impact of
Artaud's
> specific ideas about the actor's body and
voice, the
> use of music, the role of the written
text, the interplay
> between the space occupied by the
spectacle and the
> audience's space. Artaud changed the
understanding of
> what was serious, what was worth doing.
Brecht is the
> century's only other writer on the theater
whose
> importance and profundity conceivably
rival Artaud's.
> But Artaud did not succeed in affecting
the conscience
> of the modern theater by himself being, as
Brecht was,
> a great director. His influence derives no
support
> from the evidence of his own productions.
His practical
> work
in the theater between 1926 and 1935 was apparently
> so unseductive that it has left virtually
no trace,
> whereas the idea of theater on behalf of
which he urged
> his productions upon an unreceptive public
has become
> ever more potent. (p. xxxviii)
>
> _Antonin Artaud: Selected Writings_, ed.
and with an
> introduction by Susan Sontag, trans. Helen
Weaver
> (Berkeley: University of California Press,
1988).
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
>
>"Have
you ever been experienced?
> Not
necessarily stoned but
>
Beautiful."
>
>"Are You
Experienced?"
>by Jimi
Hendrix
>on The Jimi
Hendrix Experience's 1967 album:
>_Are You
Experienced_ (Reprise 6261)
>
> <<BULLDOG BREATH>>
> http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
>
> <<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
>
>*******************************************************
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:48:50 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: None of the DHARMA beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In the
process of doing research for that story, I came upon some breaking
>news
regarding the Estate of Jan Kerouac. I've put this information on a
>webpage and
published it this morning. I've asked Joe Grant at BookZen to link
>it to his
site.
WHICH JOE GRANT,
HAVING DISCUSSED THE CONTROVERSY AT GREAT LENGTH WITH JAN
KEROUAC
PERSONALLY, HAS DECLINED TO DO.
AFTER READING THE
MATERIAL I UNDERSTAND WHY JAN KEROUAC ALSO DECLINED A
SIMILAR REQUEST
BY THIS "JOURNALIST."
>
>I hope you'll
all take the time to read it. The url is:
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/Jackoffdays/background.html">Jan
Kerouac: In
>the
background</A> , or http://members.aol.com/Jackoffdays/background.html
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:16:03 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of the DHARMA beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >
> >For
those of you who haven't known me before, I've been working for the last
> >year on
a long investigative piece on the Jack Kerouac archive controversy.
> >I've now
completed my research and interviews and am ready to publish. It is
a
> >much
different story than you've had the opportunity to hear so far.
> >
> >In the
process of doing research for that story, I came upon some breaking
> >news
regarding the Estate of Jan Kerouac. I've put this information on a
> >webpage
and published it this morning. I've asked Joe Grant at BookZen to
link
> >it to
his site.
> >
> >I hope
you'll all take the time to read it. The url is:
> ><A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/Jackofdays/background.html">Jan
Kerouac: In
> >the
background</A> , or http://members.aol.com/Jackofdays/background.html
> >
> >Please
let me know if you have questions or comments on my story.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Diane
Diane, This didn't seem to be the same article you
described.
Is this a blurb
for some literary essay you have written?
Is this Jo's
website you have listed?
I read two
peices. Neither were what I think of as
investigative. I
think investive
is uninvolved or subjective. Doesn't
mean you have to
be subjective,
but i think that it does preclude the word investigative.
Is the article
somewhere else?
I think the most
interesting aspects is it sounds like Gerry is very
irascable and
nasty to interveiwers and is oppininated.
I think that I
might understand
some of your points more if taken outside the context
of so much of
your emotions. It seemed you were
accusing many people of
misconduct and
then Gerry in particular of some of it or all of it. I
wasn't sure when
you were painting with a fine brush or a broad brush.
Perhaps
organizing the essay diffent would help me, seperating gossip
stuff from the
legal and document material that can be verified. It
seemed to blended
together.
I am sure there
is a little truth everywhere, but I was hoping for more
clarification on the status of Jack's estate. My quess is you have
some information
that could make a coherent argument. maybe going
through the
material and editing out feelings and quess work might be
good. I wish Gerry was more distant , I dread how
every time some crack
pot baits him he
has to say tooo much. he should use his
ammo much more
sparingly. The
amount of emotions and name calling is not healthy to the
future of saving
any of the materials for future innocent readers and
scholars.
patricia
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:28:36 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Could someone
tell if my posts are getting through my responding to this?
>Sorry about
the spam...
>***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless ME!***
YEP.
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:34:05 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: The Truth and the Lies
Comments: cc:
jgrant@bookzen.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To all my friends
on the Beat-L: March 8, 1998
Well, they've wrecked another Sunday
for me.
I should have expected it. I've been doing too well in court. I've
been winning
slowly, decision by decision. Tomorrow
my attorney will take
part in a major
hearing in Albuquerque, which will compel the other side to
produce all the
business documents of Jan Kerouac that so far they have
denied me, even
though I have a court order making me her literary executor.
And we are
momentarily expecting the decision from the appellate court in
Santa Fe, which
will empower me to try Jan's case against the Sampas family
in St.
Petersburg, Florida--the case that is based upon her claim that her
grandmother
Gabrielle's will was forged.
(Bill Gargan, please take note. You asked me not to talk about the
Kerouac Estate and
the Sampas family here on the Beat-List.
And for five
months I observed
your dictum. Then lately, no matter what
I talked about,
Jack Micheline's
death, Kerouac's Buddhism, etc., the hot and heavy barbs
started flying at
me. "Go see Paul Maher's web page
and learn all about
Gerald Nicosia's
career as a pornographer!" etc.
Now, today, Ms. Diane De
Rooy arrives on
the Beat-List with an invitation to come visit her website
and read how I
have committed fraud and embezzlement in my role as Jan's
literary
executor. The next thing I know, posts
about my supposed crimes in
the estate wars
are popping up here. So I'm going to
take the liberty of
answering these
charges--just one time--since I feel I am entitled to that.)
Interesting that the people who come up
with these attacks on me all
seem to have
business dealings with John Sampas. Paul
Maher depends on Mr.
Sampas for
Kerouac materials and permissions for his little magazine, THE
KEROUAC
QUARTERLY. Ms. DeRooy wants to publish
"Jackadays," a daybook or
calendar of
sorts, with a quote of Kerouac's for each day of the year. That
idea will make
her a million bucks, but of course she has to get permission
from, and split
profits with--guess who??? John Sampas.
Ms. DeRooy's two pieces--"30 Years
on the Road" and "Kerouac Heirs
Charge Executor
with Misconduct"--are filled with twisted facts,
half-truths, and
mostly outright lies. I will deal with them, one by one. I
begin with
"30 Years on the Road":
Poor "tiny person" Jan
Kerouac died "at the center of a cyclone, too
small to fight
against it, too weak-willed to keep from feeding into it."
Supposedly she
was victimized by "hangers-on who used her for their own
self-aggrandizement." Jan was, in truth, one of the strongest
people I ever
met, who lived
with kidney dialysis four times a day for the last five years
of her life, and
still managed to bring and sustain a lawsuit against the
far richer and
healthier Sampas family, threatening to bring down the very
foundations of
their fortune.
Ms. DeRooy accuses me of having
"perjured myself in court
documents." This is a serious charge, but she does not
tell us what
documents. She does not explain what is the
perjury. That's like my
saying, Joe Palooka
killed three people--but I don't give the names, dates,
or
circumstances. Just take it on faith, he
killed three people.
Ms. DeRooy accuses me of fundraising in
the name of Paul Blake, Jack
Kerouac's nephew,
and then betraying him. Since Paul lost
his home (and
then his wife
left him) a year ago, he has fallen on hard times. In fact,
the last I heard,
he is now homeless. I did not do
"fundraising" for him or
promise to share
any money with him. I suggested at that
time that people
on the Beat List
might want to help him, and, as per Paul's request, I
listed his PO box
on the Beat-List. What I said quite
clearly was that if
Gabrielle's will
is tossed out as a forgery, Paul will come into one-third
of a
multi-million dollar estate. I have also
suggested from time to time
that Mr. Sampas
should voluntarily share some of the wealth of the Kerouac
Estate with Paul,
which Mr. Sampas has never (to my knowledge) attempted to
do. I have personally sent money to Paul from
time to time, and I have also
tried very hard
to get help for his medical problems, but at present I do
not know how to
reach him. If Ms. De Rooy knows, I wish
she would share
this information.
Ms. De Rooy states that neither of
Jan's heirs, exhusband John Lash
or half brother
David Bowers, knew that I was negotiating a sale of her own
archive to the
Bancroft Library in Berkeley, that it was a surprise when she
told Lash of the
deal on February 15, 1998. But in her
next article,
"Kerouac
Heirs Charge Misconduct," we learn that John Lash wrote to the
Bancroft Library
in October, 1997, demanding that money from sale of Jan's
archive be sent
directly to him. Contradictions never
bother Ms. DeRooy.
We also learn that John Sampas refers
to Jan as "my niece." Now
that she's dead,
she's his dear niece. When she was
alive, he managed to
cut down her
royalty income, even as she was dying and needed money for
medicines and
food. I have letters from Jan's
copyright lawyer, Herbert
Jacoby, written to
agent Sterling Lord, expressing outrage that anyone would
try to cut off
money from a dying woman. In the LOWELL
SUN, June 3, 1995,
the Sampas family
(including John) said they "would not join in any
negotiations with
Jan Kerouac" to help her get her father's papers into a
library. So much for "dear niece."
On to "Kerouac Heirs Charge
Executor With Misconduct":
Ms. DeRooy accuses me of charging the
Sampas family with fraud. No,
Ms. DeRooy, I did
not accuse them. Jan Kerouac--their
"dear niece"--accused
them in a formal
lawsuit which she filed against them, in the Superior Court
in St.
Petersburg, Florida, alleging that her grandmother's will was forged.
Ms. DR alleges that I am "keeping
100 percent of the proceeds" of
the sale of Jan's
archive to the Bancroft. On the
contrary, the $20,000
went directly
into an account labeled "Estate of Jan Kerouac." Exact
records have been
kept of how that money is being spent.
It is true I have
had to pay some
of my own expenses incurred as literary executor--for
example, my trips
to St. Petersburg and Albuquerque for court appearances
for my lawyer and
myself. This is because John Lash locked
up all of Jan's
royalty income
for two years, and refused to pay all but a tiny portion of
my expenses. John Lash, for the record, has made a
financial deal with John
Sampas, but the
terms, according to Lash's lawyers, are "confidential." The
strategy,
however, is very clear. They have shut
off my funding, so that
eventually I will
run out of gas. Nobody can perform a job
forever without
getting their
expenses paid. If they can't beat me in
court, they figure
they'll starve me
out. Now they're upset that I actually
have some money
available to pay
my bills.
Tough luck, guys.
Lash, by the way, has been reimbursing
100% of HIS expenses,
including his own
lawyers' bills. I.e., he's been paying
his lawyers with
Jan's money to
fight me.
The codicil to Jan's will, the
testamentary letters, and the court
order following
her death all make one thing very clear: John Lash is not
empowered to
conduct any of the LITERARY business of Jan's estate. Only I,
Gerald Nicosia,
have that power. That is why Tony Bliss
of the Bancroft
dealt with me and
not John Lash regarding the sale of Jan's literary
archive. It is true the Sterling Lord Agency and
publisher Viking Penguin
have refused to
honor my court order, but then both of those institutions
make a great deal
of money from their dealings with John Sampas, and Mr.
Sampas has plied
his persuasive powers with both of them.
Mr. Sampas has no such persuasive
powers with the Bancroft Library
in Berkeley.
Tough luck again, fellas.
Mr. Lash claims he naively turned over
Jan's papers to me because
"my lawyers
told me I had to turn them over."
Wrong again, Mr. Lash and Ms.
DeRooy. Judge Gerard Thomson of the Probate Court in
Albuquerque ORDERED
Mr. Lash to turn
over these documents to me. These
documents had been
wrongfully withheld
from me for a whole year. Had he not
turned them over,
he would have
been in contempt of court.
Next, we get into the order of BIG
LIES.
Ms. DR claims the U Mass Library has
closed my archive, not because
of a threat from
John Sampas, but because of their "concern that Nicosia's
archive contains
photocopies of documents owned by other libraries." She
names three of
these libraries: the Newberry in Chicago, the New York
Public, and
Columbia University. She does not list
any of these supposedly
purloined
documents. Why? Because THERE ARE NO XEROXED DOCUMENTS FROM
THE
NEW YORK PUBLIC
LIBRARY or COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY in the MEMORY BABE archive!!!
I never entered
the New York Public Library until 1995, 12 years after
MEMORY BABE was
published, and five years after my archive went to U Mass,
Lowell. As for Columbia University, I did not place
any of my research
xeroxes from
Columbia in the MEMORY BABE archive because they were very
clearly marked:
"Not for resale or deposit in other collections." Yes,
there are a few
xeroxes of Kerouac letters to Malcolm Cowley (from the
Newberry Library)
in the MEMORY BABE archive, but they were copied and kept
in my archive
with Malcolm Cowley's permission.
The fact is, U Mass Lowell made the
MEMORY BABE collection available
to scholars until
about June of 1995, when John Sampas came to complain to
them that there
was material in the archive that might adversely affect his
lawsuit with Jan
Kerouac. (I have a post card from scholar
Jim Jones, who
was turned away
from the collection, stating just this.)
At that point,
fearing a lawsuit
from Mr. Sampas, U Mass, Lowell closed most of the
material in the
collection, including the 300 taped interviews, to the
public--in
complete disregard of the covenant we made when I placed the
material
there. I had required that all of this
material be made
perpetually
available for public study. Now the
cassette tapes are
seriously
deteriorating, and the university will not reproduce them on fresh
tape stock, will
not let anyone listen to them, and will not resell them
back to me, even
though I have offered to pay the university back the full
amount they paid
me for the collection.
Ms. DR claims Jan Kerouac had a
"cordial and businesslike
relationship"
with the Sampas family. What I have are
about 800 documents,
letters from and
to Jan and her attorneys, over the period 1982-1996,
complaining that
Jan is not being properly paid the money that is due her
from the Kerouac
Estate, and that the Sampas family is even making it
difficult for her
to know what deals are being made, how much money is being
earned, etc. On September 24, 1991, Jan Kerouac wrote to
Sterling Lord, the
Sampases' agent,
claiming she did not receive money from THE TOWN AND THE
CITY until
"with the help of my long-standing attorney Saul Cohen, I managed
to wrest away my
rightful half from the clutches of Stella Sampas, who at
first tried
valiantly to keep me from getting anything." Farther on in the
letter, she
demands of Lord: "what has become of all the royalties for those
unaccounted-for
titles all this time--have the royalties only gone to the
other side [the
Sampas family]? This happened before,
with THE DHARMA BUMS
in June of '88
when Stella had to reimburse $1,200 of my money. And I
distinctly
remember in May of this year, that I called and spoke to you ...
and you
mentioning a check that was on your desk for BIG SUR, which you said
had nothing to do
with me--that it was for the other side of the Estate.
So, where did
that money go??? To Helen Supernant
[John Sampas's sister]?
... I'm only
asking for what's rightfully mine."
Apparently that's not one of the
letters the Sampases showed Ms. De
Rooy.
Ms. De Rooy claims John Sampas always
shared with Jan "proceeds from
sales, to
collectors, of Jack Kerouac's letters and personal effects." He
never shared ANY
of that money with her. Jan told me over
and over again
that he never
gave her a penny of that money, nor would she have wanted it,
since she did not
want him selling those things to collectors.
In Jan's
whole archive of
papers--20,000 documents, that I have spent 8 months going
thru piece by
piece--I did not see one letter from John Sampas saying,
"Here's your
half for ten of Jack's letters that I just sold," or "Here's
your half of the
money from Johnny Depp for the raincoat," etc. Nothing to
that effect. Zero.
Zilch. Nada. Now you may say, "Nicosia, you probably
removed those
letters to Jan from John Sampas."
But Mr. Lash's lawyers
catalogued Jan's
papers for a whole year before I ever got them--and Mr.
Lash is Mr.
Sampas's friend. And if I tried to
remove evidence of John
Sampas having
paid money to Jan Kerouac, that evidence would still show up
in Lash's
lawyers' catalogue of Jan's effects. But
there is no mention of
any
correspondence between Jan and Sampas in Lash's catalogue.
Ms. DR claims it was illegal for Jan
Kerouac to go to the Bancroft
Library and ask
if they would be interested in housing her father's literary
archive. Well, if she tried to SELL it to them, when
she didn't yet own it,
I suppose that
would be illegal. (Like trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.)
But talking with
them about whether they'd LIKE to own the archive--that's
illegal??? Who's she kidding???
It's true Jan's attorney Tom Brill drew
up a document for her to
sign--in March,
not April, 1996--terminating my future role as literary
executor. But Brill was badly screwing up on the
case--in fact, he
eventually
screwed up so badly that he was thrown off the case by the judge
in Florida, and
held in contempt of court. Brill suspected I was advocating
that Jan fire
him, and so he wanted to get me out of the picture. Jan
thought it over,
and thought better of it. Under the
pressure of media
attacks (when the
papers were calling her a grave robber, etc. for wanting
to move Jack's
body to Nashua) she said a few harsh words to me, and there
were some bad
feelings between us for a week or two.
Then she called me the
night before
Easter (April 6) and said she was sorry for having hurt my
feelings. She never signed the document.
According to Ms. DR, she never signed
it because she was "nearly
blind, and had
moved to an assisted-living facility in Albuquerque." This
is pure
hogwash. Jan did not move to the nursing
home until the last week
in May, about ten
days before she died (on June 5). Before
that, she was
living in a house
that she rented. She had eye problems
but could still
read well enough
with a magnifying lense. Ms. De Rooy
also claims she
didn't sign it
because she "was afraid of me."
More hogwash.
On May 2, 1996, a month before she
died, Jan gave her last official
interview to an
Italian film company from Rome, headed by Giorgio Moser.
The interviewer
was bilingual actress Dianne Jones. The
film company was
doing a Beat
documentary for the Venice Biennale but couldn't make it to New
Mexico, so JAN
SENT THEM TO ME, to represent her views.
I live in Marin
County. That night, when they got back to San
Francisco, the Italians
interviewed Jan
by phone from their hotel room in San Francisco to her home
in
Albuquerque. I was not present at this
interview in any sense, and so
could not have
influenced it.
Jan tells the interviewer she had just
got done watching Seinfeld.
So much for being
blind.
Dianne Jones asks her about me. Jan says: "Well I've known Gerry
for a long time,
for like 20 years. I met him originally
when he came up to
Washington State
to interview my mother for his book, for MEMORY BABE. And
so that's how
long I've known him. I can't even
remember all the details of
all the things
that we've done together. It's been a
long friendship."
A little later, Dianne asks her if
there are any other people
helping her. Jan replies: "MOSTLY GERRY IS THE ONE
WHO WINDS UP HELPING ME
THE MOST, FROM
AFAR!"
Compare this with De Rooy's version:
"She told [her brother] she was
afraid of
him. She said, 'I have to remove myself
from Gerry Nicosia
because he's
incredibly unstable.'"
Jan doesn't even mention Lash or her
half-brother on this, her last
tape.
Dianne also asks her about the
possibility of reconciling with John
Sampas. Jan replies: "It's funny because, a lot
of people tell me, 'Oh come
on, why don't you
just be nice and have a settlement?'
Well, sure, I would,
except that it's
like asking the Jews to kiss Hitler and make up! They've
completely trod
on me, and here I am on life support, and they've taken away
half my
income. I mean, I'm not about to cozy up
to them after all this.
They've been
totally evil to me."
So much for her "cordial and
businesslike relationship with the
Sampases."
De Rooy also claims that I forced Jan
to deal with the Bancroft,
that I kept her
off balance "like on a game show," that I was "always
throwing stuff at
her she wasn't able to deal with" and that I demonstrated
my
"domineering style" when Jan and I met with Tony Bliss at the
Bancroft in
1995 (at which
half brother David Bowers was present), that I "badgered" Jan
and forced her to
"stay on track."
Compare this with Jan's own words, on
her last tape, about what she
wanted for her
father's archive:
"What I want to do is, I don't
want to just get all the stuff that
the Sampases have
and keep it for myself and sell it off like they're doing.
What I want to do
is put it in a museum. I'm very clear
about which museum
that I want it to
be, which is the Bancroft Library in Berkeley.
And I know
the curator, Tony
Bliss, and we've pledged it to him.
Because I want it to
be in an archive
for the public and everyone who loves Kerouac to be able to
go and see. Whereas now it's just in the hands of John
Sampas and the rest
of his family in
Lowell, Massachusetts, and they're controlling everything...
Jan goes on: "This new generation,
of X-ers or whatever you want to
call them, that
are coming up now, have a very uncanny affection for the
Beats, and for
Jack Kerouac in particular, and I would like to help in
leaving the
legacy to them and to all people who appreciate the Beat
Generation and
what it signifies, and the wild, spontaneous prose that my
father started,
and so that these people don't wind up just completely
ruining the whole
thing by stealing ... it's like a stolen legacy. And I
might just die in
the process, that's very possible, because of my
condition, but
even if I do, I want to make sure that it's carried on and
then that my father's
name is finally honored, and the whole thing goes down
in history as
being a ... that I resurrected or helped to resurrect his
dignity and his
honor."
Poor "weak-willed, tiny
person" indeed.
Lash claims (as per De Rooy) that his
legal fight with me "has
nothing to do
with firing" me. But one of the
first things his lawyers
asked the court,
in November, 1996, was for the right to fire me.
Ms. DR claims my appointment ends when
all the bills are paid. No,
an executor's job
ends when there are no more properties to deal with; and a
literary
executor's job ends when the copyrights all expire, which is like
fifty years from
now.
Tough luck again, fellas.
In filing their motion asking for the
Bancroft money, Lash's lawyers
ignored the fact
that the appellate court in Santa Fe has overriding
jurisdiction, and
it is the appellate court that will decide who controls
what. Until that
decision is made, my lawyer and I have suggested that both
executors work
from a joint bank account. Lash's
lawyers refused.
Jan's archive is already safely in the
Bancroft Library, where she
wanted it.
I am aware that Ms. DR may claim I have
made up Jan's words on her
last taped
interview. For that reason, I will make
this unedited tape
available to
anyone who requests it for sincere, scholarly interest--not for
reproduction,
publication, or broadcast. I will charge
$50 for a copy of
the tape,
postpaid. I am aware that is a rather
steep charge, but I feel it
is necessary to
keep the Sampas/Lash contingent from wearing me out (and
using up my
precious time) with hundreds of superfluous requests. (John
Lash already has
a copy of the tape; so does David Bowers.)
The charge is
not for Jan's
words, but for my trouble in providing them.
I reserve the
right to refuse
to send the tape to anyone whose motives seem suspect--in
which case, the
full amount will be returned to sender.
Send requests to PO
Box 130, Corte
Madera CA 94976.
A word about the tape. The master resides with the Italian film
company in
Rome. An unedited copy was provided to
my lawyer Jerome Field
when an official
request was submitted. Approximately ten
members of the
film company were
present, including Giorgio Moser and his son, when the
interview was
made, and they will vouch for the tape's authenticity, as well
as the date that
it was made. Besides, there is
considerable internal
evidence in the
tape itself that dates it to the beginning of May, 1996.
So much for "scratching the
surface," Ms. De Rooy. Perhaps next
time, you can
scratch a little deeper.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:49:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Truth and the Lies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerry has now had
his say, and I have had mine. I stand by my story, and aside
from that
statement, will not post any responses to the list.
I will be happy
to answer any questions or comments made directly to me, if I
can.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:47:15 -0800
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: testing one too
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Could someone
respond to this message so I know I'm getting through to
the list? I've sent recent posts, but they have not
appeared in my
email. Thanks,
Mark J
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:58:56 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hi gerry: i must
agree so far as my reading of the text goes, most pronounced
is feat/hatred of
women.
mc
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> Hello to
everyone on the Beat-List! March 7,
1998
> I am almost finished reading SOME OF
THE DHARMA, and I'm deeply
> troubled by
the negativity toward women, children, marriage, and life
> itself. There has been a lot of hype of this book as
a great modern
>
interpretation of Buddhism, but I don't know any Buddhists who take such a
> cynical view
of procreation, raising children, etc.
Kerouac advocates that
> people stop
having children, and snidely quips that "pretty girls make
>
graves." Obviously this was stuff
he deeply felt, though it's hard to say
> how much of
it might have been from alcoholic depression.
This philosophy
> dictated
much of his life, the way he avoided relationships with women
> (other than
his mother), disowned his daughter, and looked for sex from
> other men,
where there was no "danger" of creating children or a lasting
> partnership.
> As I read the book, I kept getting
this vision: what if, say,
> Kerouac had
given up Buddhism in 1956, when he met Helen Weaver? This
> beautiful,
outgoing brunette also had a mind the equal of his own--she later
> became
famous for her translations of Artaud and other French writers. He
> describes
their affair in Desolation Angels, where he calls her Ruth
> Heaper--he
obviously loved her, and used to refer to her "belly of wheat,"
> quoting the
Song of Solomon. But instead of
cementing a relationship with
> her, he'd
disappear for four or five nights on a wild drunken binge,
> spoiling all
her plans and leaving her in tears, till finally her therapist
> told her to
break it off. And then, if you remember
the scene in Desolation
> Angels, Jack
storms into her apartment and accuses her of letting her
> therapist
ruin their relationship!
> What if, instead, Jack gave up his
particular negative Buddhist
> philosophy
at that point? What if he tried to give
up booze, developed a
> stable match
with Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958? He'd be
> celebrating
his 40th wedding anniversary now, a robust and hale 76 years
> old, with
another 30 or so books added to his canon.
And maybe, in this
> scenario, he
would also have developed a decent relationship with his
> daughter
Jan, and encouraged her to take care of her own health problems
> (including a
blood disease she inherited from him), so that she didn't end
> up
self-destructing as well at age 44.
Maybe Jan, now 46, would be showing
> up at his
wedding anniversary with a few of her own kids, his grandchildren.
> A crazy fantasy? Maybe.
But think how much less suffering there
> would have
been in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
>
"suppressing" suffering, not adding to it?
> I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
one.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:22:27 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
wow.
we agree on
something, mr nicosia,
and i appreciate
the style in which you have presented your opinion. i hope we
can all move back
apace and get some perspective on whatever subject is a crack
accross our ass
and find something worth while to say, in a manner which
invites thoughts
and not slings and arrows.
mc
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> March 7, 1998
> Whether Gene Lee is a real person or a
pseudonym for one of our
> banished
brethren, he's stimulated me to write another post.
> I guess I want to say to all of you,
though I wrote a book claiming
> Kerouac's
greatness as a 20th century writer, that I have deep problems with
> accepting a
big part of his personal philosophy. I
look at his life, the
> wrecked
relationships, the abandoned daughter, the utter
>
self-destructiveness, and I can't help feeling that this man got badly off
> track. When he was "on," his mind was
simply amazing. He wrote sometimes
> as if he had
a pipeline to God--he understood in their full complexity some
> of the
really powerful forces that drive human life: the need for love, the
> need for
joy, the need for freedom. But when he
was wrong (and yes, Gene,
> this is my
OPINION only), he was terribly wrong, about everything being
> empty of
meaning, about life being futile, about bringing children into this
> world as
being a great evil. Remember how he
castigated Corso for having a
> baby:
"You brought something into this world just to die, man!"
> I think there's a danger with a writer
we love as much as Kerouac,
> of taking
everything he wrote uncritically, of just accepting everything he
> wrote as
"great"--especially now with many of these manuscripts that Kerouac
> did not see
published in his lifetime, and which he may well have changed
> his views
about had he lived longer, getting printed because of his fame and
> posthumous
commercial success. Again, that's not to
say these books are not
> worth
reading; it's just to say, reader beware.
If you don't factor
> Kerouac's
life into a lot of the things he says, you may be getting sold a
> bill of
goods. He may have been kidding himself
too, whistling in the dark.
> In fact,
that's quite apparent in many places in SOME OF THE DHARMA, where
> he promises
himself over and over that he will give up drinking, sex,
> friendships,
etc. and devote his life to meditation and teaching. He
> claimed to
be offering a map to disciples, of how to get to peace and
>
enlightenment, but I suggest that the map did not lead where he said it did.
> Again, I welcome your thoughts on this
subject. I was pleased by
> the range of
responses to my last post.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:31:48 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: New member
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
welcome kelly,
just remember to keep your umbrella buy your side to shield you
from periodic
shit storms here.
you may at times
feel as though you walked onto a schoolyard
but we actually do
write about the
beats sometimes, when we are not busily writing about one
another.
marie c.
AlienRains wrote:
> Hey,
> I will
introduce myself. I'm a senior in high
school. I am currently writing
> a paper
about Allen Ginsberg for English. This
is probably the first time I
> have
actually been interested in what I was writing about. It seems like I
> don't mind
that it has taken me literally days to complete this task, but I
> really find
his life and poetry so interesting.
> I guess I am
so excited because I too write poetry (at least I think that is
> what it
is). I started to write poetry about
five years ago, but I haven't
> told anyone
about it. bye
> Kelly
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:40:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: the complex Mr. Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>As for me,
I'd rather have an after-dinner peyote button than a scotch!
>
> ----Dave B.
Chewing up a
peyote button after-dinner? A modest
scotch would help make
the taste more
palatable
(Said in jest. I
understand how important the purging is when participating
in a peyote
ritual and the taste and the emetic qualities make that a
normal, expected
part of the ritual. Once that is behind the participant it
become clear,
very clear, why peyote is an important "sacrement" to some
Native
Americans.)
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:19:25 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: WSB, Junk, Kerouac, Booze, etc.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Little humans
Big humans
Words I can
scarcely utter
But, oh brother,
do I get sick
When I find them
in my butter
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
hemorin@pop3.ibm.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:12:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: henry morin <OldScratch@IBM.NET>
Subject: Diane's post about Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Here is the
article so people can hear both sides.
30 years on the
road ...
BY DIANE DE ROOY
21 OCTOBER 1997:
I'M STANDING OVER JAN KEROUAC'S RESTING PLACE at sunset
in Nashua, New
Hampshire. Her ashes lie to the east of the grand family
headstone, under
a small
demarcation on
the yellowed sod, maybe 2 feet wide and 5 feet long, a
rectangle with
rounded
corners, where
the earth was last opened up to lay a Kerouac to rest.
The smallness of
her grave is the story of Jan's life. She took up little
space in her
father's
consciousness.
She never amounted to much in the literary realm. Her
actions didn't
leave a great
wake on the
waters of the world. This tiny person died in the center of a
cyclone, too
small to fight
against it, too
weak-willed to keep from feeding into it.
Jack Kerouac's
daughter's life was one of abandonment, terminally bad
health,
self-destructive habits
and hangers-on
who used her for their own self-aggrandizement.
==============================
I READ KEROUAC IN
1969, and throughout the Seventies, collected as many of
his out-of-print
books as I could
find in used book stores in Los Angeles, where I lived for
a few years. When
Jan's
book, BABY
DRIVER, came out in 1981, I read it and was just outraged to
learn that
Kerouac had
a daughter he'd
abandoned. I was raising an abandoned 2-year-old son by
then, myself, and
that
colored my
feelings. Jan lived just down the road from me right about then,
in Ellensburg
(Kittitas). I
lived in
Wenatchee, Washington. I wrote her a letter urging her not to give
up, not to fall
into the trap
of being
abandoned, not to ruin her own life because of her father. She
never wrote back.
I almost burned
all my Kerouac books because I so loathed this man, this
self-absorbed
egomaniac
who cared so
little for his own child. I didn't, of course, but I did have
them all stacked
in a fire pit in
the back yard,
ready to go, when I was too horrified by the act of
book-burning to
carry it off.
Last year, I
allowed myself to make friends based on our common interest in
Kerouac. As a
result, I
read Nicosia's
stuff about Jan on the web, including the horror stories
about Jack's
papers being sold
to collectors by
this greedy family who'd forged the will and stolen
everything from
Jan. I
immediately set
out to find Gerald Nicosia and offer my considerable help
(dry wit) in
preserving the
archive, through
my experience in political organizing and journalism.
However, I
decided right away the best way I could make a difference would
be to be a
journalist,
tell the story
factually and open a national dialog, shine a spotlight on
the situation and
see if people
cared enough to
respond. Nicosia sent me a thick information package that
was supposed to
show
me the way.
But I found so
many holes in his telling of Jan's story, which had a
"National
Enquirer" feel to it from
the beginning,
that I had many serious questions. I phoned him for an
interview, which
lasted 3 hours.
During that time,
when I asked him direct questions, he would say, "That's
not the question
you
should be asking.
You SHOULD be asking this:..." and then he'd launch off
on a spin. It was
wearying.
Although I
explained my motivations up front--"I'm a journalist, I am
interviewing you,
don't tell me
anything 'off the
record,' because everything you say here can end up in
print or on
NPR," he treated
me like he
thought I was his press agent or groupie. I persisted, asking
him hard
questions, and in the
last 10 minutes
of the interview, he suddenly decided I was some kind of
spy for the
Sampas family
and demanded I
give him the name of a confidant who'd given me an earlier
interview. My
confidant
hadn't said
anything negative about Nicosia, but had simply reported on
Gerry's behavior
at the
1995 NYU Beat
Generation conference.
That 10 minutes
turned into the weirdest psychodrama I'd ever stumbled
into. He became
meek,
cajoling,
shaming, then accusing, aggressive, threatening. I hung up the
phone on him.
Regardless of his
behavior, I pitched the story, as I understood it, to
NPR. My editor
sent me back
to get the other
side of the story: what's in the archive, how much has
been sold, what
do the
Sampases say
about this, etc. I did my best to find these things out, but I
drew the line at
direct
contact with the
Sampas family, as I was convinced they were evil.
In the meantime,
all these people were surfacing to talk to me, people
who'd never
spoken out
before, including
relatives and employees in Ginsberg's and Burroughs'
camps, Jan's
cousin, Paul
Blake, scholars
and collectors, people who knew things. What they had in
common was a) a
love of
Jan and/or Jack
and b) horror stories about Gerry Nicosia.
The deeper I dug,
the more I found out. It was surprisingly hard for me to
get to the point
where I
could entertain
the idea that Nicosia, allegedly respected for his book,
could actually be
lying, could
have motivations
of greed and power, could have used Jan, could be the bad
person these
others
were saying he
was. I thought he was maybe incompetent, or mentally
unbalanced, from
stress,
perhaps. But I
had to cross a line at some point into believing he was
simply,
deliberately, lying,
including
perjuring himself in court documents I'd gotten copies of.
Finally, in July,
I contacted the Sampas family. They didn't want to talk
to me, of course.
It was hard
to gain their
trust long enough to keep them on the phone for five minutes,
but I did.
>From that
point on, I followed all leads. I followed the leads the Sampases
gave me, and I
followed
the leads Gerry
had given me. I decided not to take anyone's word for
anything, but to
get the goods
right in front of
me, in black and white, and to be skeptical of everything
everyone said in
the
process. I
reworked my story a few times and pitched it again, first to
NPR, then to
magazines. In
the time it took
to get rejected, I found out I still didn't have the facts
straight, someone
was still not
talking, or
someone had surfaced to dispute someone else. It was maddening.
In October, I had
planned to go to Lowell for the Jack Kerouac festival. My
plans fell
through, but I
was left holding
this plane ticket. I decided to go interview the Sampas
family and see
Jack's archive,
if they'd let me.
They said yes. I was told I could have a couple of hours.
They ended up
giving me
two entire days.
I saw source
materials, authentic papers and legal documents, letters from
Jan to Stella and
John,
cancelled checks,
Jack's papers and unpublished books. Either I was seeing
the real thing,
or these
people had
created an elaborate forgery to convince me of their side of the
story. Me? Who am
I
that they'd do
this? I knew I was still missing the point, that I wasn't
prepared to tell
this story up until
then, and I was
glad I'd invested in the trip.
There was a point
during all that interviewing and investigating where I
realized I had
lost my
journalistic
credentials. People were entrusting me with secrets. I had
become an
"insider." This
didn't mean I
couldn't tell the truth. It just meant I couldn't claim
journalist status
anymore, or tell the
story while
leaving myself out of it.
I had been
tracking Nicosia's sale of Jan Kerouac's archive to the Bancroft
Library at
UC-Berkeley
since last
October. At that time, I had called the library to ask a
question about
the Jack Kerouac
archive, and the
person I spoke to let it slip that they'd just inked a
deal to purchase
Jan's archive
from Gerald
Nicosia. I had a feeling, after all his fund-raising in the
name of the
Kerouac heirs and
his promises to
share with Paul Blake (who says Nicosia better never set
foot on his
property again),
that they'd never
see a dime. So I waited to see what would happen, waited
for an
announcement
from Gerry.
As I was making
follow-up phone calls, trying to finish up my Jack Kerouac
archive story, I
called
the Bancroft to
inquire after the status of Jan's stuff. When I was told
the purchase was
finalized, I
contacted the
heirs for my final interviews with them, checking on probate
status and
Nicosia's
performance.
Neither of them knew about the sale.
Jan Kerouac: Rest
in Peace
John Lash
reminded me that "tomorrow is Jan's birthday." She would have
been 46 on 16
February
1998.
I contacted John
Sampas for final thoughts from him and mentioned that it
was about to be
Jan's
birthday, the
woman he refers to as "my niece." He told me he had received
an order from the
engravers about
10 days earlier to have Jan's name added to the Kerouac
headstone. As
deedholder, he
has to sign off on these things. He corrected the spelling
of her name,
which the
engraver had as
"Jen," and signed it, so Jan has now been added, on her
birthday,
virtually, to the
family at last.
The heirs have
worked quietly in the background, doing what needed to be
done without
media
coverage. Both
Bowers and Lash had relationships with Jan that had nothing
to do with Jack,
who
they thought was
a bum. Lash was constantly warning Jan away from
involvement in
what he called
"the Cult of
Kerouac," which I took as the working title for my story.
Nicosia and I are
both on the Beat-L newsgroup, a forum devoted to the
discussion of
Beat
literature.
People commonly post important birth and death anniversaries
there. Not a peep
out of
him on 16 Feb.
But a few days later he sent a couple of indignant posts
about a
forthcoming
biography and how
plagiaristic it was of MEMORY BABE.
The story that
follows only scratches the surface, but it does, for the
first time, allow
the other side to
speak. Jan
Kerouac: Rest in Peace. If you have questions or comments,
please write to
me at
jackofdays@aol.com
Copyright
1998 Diane
De Rooy
Kerouac heirs
charge executor with
misconduct in Bancroft sale
BY DIANE DE ROOY
FRAUD, GREED,
MISMANAGEMENT OF AN IMPORTANT LITERARY ARCHIVE - these
are the
watchwords used by Bay-area writer Gerald Nicosia to describe the
handling of Jack
Kerouac's
literary estate for the last five years.
Now some say
those same terms describe Nicosia's stewardship of the
literary legacy
left behind by
the Beat
Generation icon's daughter.
Nicosia, author
of MEMORY BABE, a biography of Jack Kerouac, had an
off-and-on
association
with Kerouac's
abandoned daughter, Jan, starting in 1978 when he was
researching his
book.
Jan Kerouac's
1981 autobiography, BABY DRIVER, was the story of life
without her
famous father
and the deep
kinship she shared with her mother, brother and husband. She
died in 1996,
five years
after suffering
kidney failure. She was 44.
In a 1995 codicil
to her Will, Jan appointed Nicosia her Literary Executor,
authorizing him
to make
money for her
heirs during probate.
Nicosia, who
includes "literary agent" on his resume, was instructed to
publish,
republish, sell or
license Jan
Kerouac's literary materials in exchange for a flat 10 percent
commission.
Jan's heirs are
her brother, David Bowers, and her ex-husband, John Lash.
Lash is also
General
Executor,
responsible for the checkbook and settling probate matters.
In mid-February,
Bowers and Lash learned that Nicosia had sold Jan's
literary
archive-letters,
photos and taped
dictations of at least one unpublished novel-to the
Bancroft Library
at University
of
California-Berkeley, for $20,000.
Contacted by
Bowers, Nicosia said he's keeping 100 percent of the proceeds
of that sale.
"He told
me, 'It's not
fair that John Lash as general executor can pay his legal
expenses from the
estate and I
don't get to pay
mine," Bowers said.
Lash authorized a
$700 payment to Nicosia to reimburse him for the trip he
made to
Albuquerque to
examine Jan's
papers in 1996. "I deemed it to be a reasonable expense for
the benefit of
the estate,"
he explained. The
codicil makes no provisions to reimburse the literary
executor for
legal or personal
expenses.
"He never
received permission to hire a lawyer," Lash added, "and after
five inquiries
from our
attorneys, his
lawyer has never responded, so we don't even know the terms
under which his
lawyer
is working."
Anthony Bliss,
Curator of Rare Books and Literary Manuscripts for the
Bancroft Library,
said the
decision to
purchase Jan's archive was made by the library council on
November 10,
1997. "We are
delighted to have
it, obviously," he said. "Jan is a person who is going to
be worthy of
study in her
own right, and
we're happy to be able to offer people this opportunity."
Lash doesn't
necessarily take issue with Nicosia's sale of Jan Kerouac's
archive, but is
"astonished"
by the way Bliss
handled the purchase. "I learned in October that the sale
was imminent. I
sent a
registered letter
to Anthony Bliss with a copy of the codicil, putting him
on notice of
proper legal
procedure for
payment to the estate." The codicil stipulates that Nicosia's
10 percent is
payable to
him upon receipt
of any such income by the estate.
But in December
1997, the Bancroft issued a $20,000 check to Gerry Nicosia.
"It's
unbelievable to me that a professional man could behave this way,"
Lash said.
"The least he
could have done
would be to write a letter to the estate saying, 'We've
received your
registered
letter and we
chose to handle the transaction this way,' but we never heard
a word."
Bliss said the
letter from Lash was referred to university counsel, who
also advised
issuing the check
directly to
Nicosia.
Since the heirs
were never informed that the sale had been finalized, they
didn't realize
the money
had been paid to
Nicosia directly.
The total
indebtedness of Jan Kerouac's estate came to $85,000, Lash said,
but he and Bowers
were reluctant to
let go of the four boxes of letters, papers and
photographs that
comprised her
literary archive,
even for the money it could bring. "They were the last
evidence of a
person we
cared very much
about," he said. "We both said, 'We're not ready,' but my
lawyers told me I
had to
turn them over,
that Gerry has the right to do what's best for the estate."
Controversy
around a literary archive is beginning to look like familiar
territory for
Nicosia.
In 1987 he sold
his MEMORY BABE research archive to the University of
Massachusetts-Lowell
for $7,500. The
collection, part of which was photocopied from other
libraries with
Beat Generation
holdings, has
been under a cloud of wariness since Nicosia began
threatening a lawsuit
to retrieve it
in June 1996. He
claims UMass has barred access to his materials under
political
pressure from
representatives
of Jack Kerouac's estate.
But staff at the
Mogan Center in Lowell, where Nicosia's archive is housed,
say the author
failed to
get legal
releases from interview subjects of their taped conversations
with him. Of
perhaps greater
concern to UMass,
Nicosia's archive contains photocopies of documents owned
by other
libraries-including
the Newberry in Chicago, New York Public, and Columbia
University-that
legally cannot be
sold or donated to another institution without permission.
Even as he was
closing the sale of Jan's archive last fall, Nicosia issued
a fund-raising
appeal by mail
and over the
Internet, asking donors to help him raise $20,000 to mount a
lawsuit against
UMass-Lowell. In
his appeal, he also states that the Bancroft Library has
expressed an
interest in
buying the MEMORY
BABE archive, once he's recovered it.
In 1993 Nicosia
began campaigning with Jan to challenge the heirs of Jack
Kerouac's estate
for
possession of his
literary archive. Alleging a forged will, Jan Kerouac
brought a lawsuit
against the
Sampas family of
Lowell, Massachusetts, in May 1994. Stella Sampas Kerouac,
Jack's third
wife,
had inherited
one-third of her husband's estate following his death in
1969. The rest
was bequeathed
to her by
Kerouac's mother, who died in 1973.
Jan Kerouac began
seeking royalties from her father's books in 1982 and
received her
first payment
for back
royalties from Stella Kerouac in 1985. She had a cordial and
businesslike
relationship with
Stella and her
family, which included sharing in proceeds from sales, to
collectors, of
Jack Kerouac's
letters and
personal effects.
After she filed
her lawsuit in 1994, according to Nicosia, he and Jan
entered "the
process of
negotiating with
a library," specifically, the Bancroft, to sell Jack
Kerouac's
archive, although neither
of them was
legally allowed to represent the Kerouac Estate.
Nicosia's
appointment as literary executor was eyed with some suspicion by
Jan Kerouac's
heirs, as
well as by her
attorney, Tom Brill. In the last six months of her life, she
made repeated
phone calls to
family members
complaining of his negative effects on her, and expressing
serious qualms
about the
1994 lawsuit.
Because of the severe stress the relationship was putting on
Jan's health, her
attorney
stepped in,
sending a letter to Nicosia in March 1996, stating he was not
to contact Jan
directly, but
to channel any
communication to her through Brill's office.
At Jan's request,
Brill also drew up another document, dated April 15,
1996, which
revoked the
1995 codicil
appointing Nicosia literary executor.
By that time, Jan
was nearly blind, had moved to an assisted-living
facility in
Albuquerque, and
needed help with
household tasks and to perform dialysis four times daily.
She had stacks of
incomplete,
disorganized paperwork lying around the apartment. She called
John Lash in
Belgium,
and asked him to
help her get her papers in order and "file the annulment"
that would revoke
the
codicil. Lash
made travel plans, but before he was scheduled to leave, Jan
was admitted to
Lovelace
Hospital in
Albuquerque, N.M., where she died on June 5, 1996.
David Bowers
discovered the papers among Jan's things after Nicosia and
Brill arrived in
Albuquerque a few
days after her death. "[Gerry] turned to Brill and said,
'You drew these
up?'"
Bowers recalled.
"And Tom Brill said, 'Yes, she asked me to, and I was just
doing my job.'
And
Gerry was
freaking out about it, saying 'Well, it wasn't signed, it's not a
legal document.'
But it made
me uneasy about
Gerry's relationship to her."
At that moment,
Bowers said he realized he was holding the papers his
sister had
referred to in one
of their last
telephone conversations. "She said, 'There's another part of
the will you
don't have a
copy of that I
have to change,'" he said. Even though Jan had signed the
codicil in June
1995, she
didn't mention
its existence to Bowers, Lash, or Brill until early in 1996,
after she had a
major
falling-out with
Nicosia.
"She told me
she was afraid of him," Bowers remembered. "She said, 'I have
to remove myself
from
Gerry Nicosia
because he's incredibly unstable.'"
Nicosia's style
with Jan was "like she was on a game show all the time,
with only so much
time to
answer the
question," Bowers said. "He was always throwing stuff at her she
wasn't able to
deal
with.
Bowers was
especially put off by Nicosia's domineering style when he sat in
on a 1995 meeting
with
Anthony Bliss at
the Bancroft Library. "He would interrupt her at every
turn because she
was getting
off the
track," Bowers said.
Gerry
"badgered" Jan, Bowers added, ignoring her fears that publicity over
the 1994 lawsuit
had
reduced her to a
laughingstock. "He'd say, 'These people are getting to
you,' and 'These
people are
after you.'"
After Jan's
death, her heirs decided to get out of the lawsuit that had
taken such a personal
and
financial toll on
her. In September 1996, Lash filed a motion to dismiss.
"That's when
the situation
exploded,"
he said, "when Gerry blocked my action in that matter."
Lash said the
ensuing power struggle between the two executors resulted in
his asking the
Albuquerque court
to rule on whether or not he had the right to dismiss the
lawsuit.
"For the
last year-and-a-half, Gerry has been saying that the estate
entered this
motion to remove
him as
executor," Lash said. "But it has nothing to do with firing
him."
The point is
almost moot, however, since an executor's tenure lasts only
until the day an
estate is
probated. Once
Jan Kerouac's creditors are paid, Nicosia's appointment ends.
Attorneys for the
heirs of Jan's estate contacted Nicosia giving him a
deadline to turn
over $18,000,
their share of
the proceeds. He did not comply. On Monday, Feb. 23, a
motion was filed
in state
district court in
Albuquerque asking the probate court to intervene.
Phone calls to
Gerry Nicosia, asking for his comment, were not returned.
Purchase of the
Jan Kerouac archive was funded by an endowment from the
August M.
Higginson
Fund, one of
Bancroft's many resources that support library acquisitions.
The library has
not yet
taken physical
possession of Jan's archive, but according to Bliss, it
expects to
"any day now."
Copyright 1998,
Diane De Rooy
jackofdays@aol.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Priority: normal
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:18:45 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<sk312@pophost.city.ac.uk>
From: daniel fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: subscription commands
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
my apologies for
sending this to the list, but i need the commands to
unsubscribe from
beat-l.
can anyone please
help.
thanks
daniel
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:50:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Mother Bloor, Scott Nearing and 1835--a
bit late...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(Found the
following msg that I somehow overlooded and did not send when
questions were
asked about Scott Nearing, the date in AG's "AMERICA" and
Mother Bloor.)
Not positive, but
Scott Nearing might have broken the Communist Party back
in 1991. The convention
was held in Cleveland (12-05-91) that year and
there was a
serious break when about 1000 members, critical of the
undemocratic
actions that were taking place, quite and formed the
Committees of
Correspondence.
Regarding the
date in "America" of 1835 he couldn't have been referring to
the Communist
Party because that predates the Manifesto and the revolutions
significantly.
It's probably a typo, even though you heard AG use the date
in a reading. On
the other hand,1935 was a high point for the CP,
particularly in
the US.
Mother Bloor was
a courageous, Socialist, Chicago packing plant worker who
fed material to
Upton Sinclair when he was writing "The Jungle."
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:19:24 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: The Truth and the Lies
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 01:49 AM
3/9/98 EST, you wrote:
>Gerry has now
had his say, and I have had mine. I stand by my story, and aside
>from that
statement, will not post any responses to the list.
>
>I will be
happy to answer any questions or comments made directly to me, if I
>can.
>
>Diane De Rooy
>
Translated:
"I'll
slander you, and when you confront me with evidence of that slander,
I'll smile."
--Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:24:31 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: AG's America
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy Brodsky
wrote:
>
> Does anyone
know if there are biographical/autobiographical accounts of
> AG's
experience with communism when he was a boy,....snip....
seems there were
some references in the barry miles bio, and you might
find something in
memory babe and literary outlaw, the burroughs bio.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:28:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Michael
Buddhism expounds the theory that all
sentient beings have a buddha-
some or more
aware or even capable than others. Self- limitation is a big part
of Buddhism- as
in: if you do not attempt to follow the eightfold path- then
enlightenment cannot
be attained. The opposite pole of this is nihlism- which
by your statement
of negating self-limits- i suppose you adhere to. This way
leads to nothing
but suffering- and sadly- re-birth.
In the above statement I meant to write
buddha-nature. Exucse the typo.
But- whatever
path one chooses to take- then he should live that- until he
maybe realizes it
is the wrong path. Ultimately- none of us will truly know
what is right and
wrong until we pass on. Faith can help- its all we have.
Personally- my what if question is this:
what is JK had truly given
himself to his
buddhist beliefs? Instead of strangling himself in the dualism
of Catholic
ritual- which eventually that struggle led him to destroy himself.
Gene Lee
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:50:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of the DHARMA beat
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane
GO GIRL!!!!!!!! What a fine job you
have done- i am really proud of
you my dear
friend- and... i hope that the beat world turns on that scumbag
Nicosia. I know-
as a practicing buddhist- i shouldnt feel that way about him-
but.. the man is
a toatl douchebag!
i thouroughly enjoyed both articles-
tho- i did notcie some typos in
there- but... a
minor flaw!
You did real good Diane.
your buddha-boy Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:23:47 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Some of Paul Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 11:50 AM
3/9/98 EST, you wrote:
>Diane
> GO GIRL!!!!!!!! What a fine job you
have done- i am really proud of
>you my dear
friend- and... i hope that the beat world turns on that scumbag
>Nicosia. I
know- as a practicing buddhist- i shouldnt feel that way about him-
>but.. the man
is a toatl douchebag!
> i thouroughly enjoyed both articles-
tho- i did notcie some typos in
>there- but...
a minor flaw!
> You did real good Diane.
> your buddha-boy Gene
>
OK, Paul Maher,
time for Sampas to get you a new email address.
This is
getting forwarded
straight to Bill Gargan.
--Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:33:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: America
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The possibilty
that "1835" in America is a typo changes the meaning of the
stanza. I had
interepreted it as Ginsberg reacting to the McCarthyism of
the sixties by
looking back at communism when he was a child and then,
saying.."but
the party was awesome in the 1830's", you know what I mean?
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:02:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of Paul Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 09-Mar-98 9:54:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET
writes:
<< OK, Paul
Maher, time for Sampas to get you a new email address. This is
getting forwarded straight to Bill Gargan.
--Gerry Nicosia >>
I just want to
say, lest anyone should wonder, that Gene Lee is a real person
with a real
address in Florida. I met Gene last year in the Beat Generation
chat room on AOL
and have had many interesting conversations with him about
the practice of
meditation, as well as poety. Gene is an "epic" poet who was
kind enough to
send me his 1997 collection in chapbook format for Christmas.
His enthusiasm
for my work is flattering, and more so since I happen to know
he does exist. I
remember last year, the "Who is Diane De Rooy" thread. I hope
I can spare
him--and all of us--a similar, tedious "investigation."
Gene, welcome to
the world of goofs. You have now officially been
indoctrinated
into the "Oops! I meant that to be a Private Post" club of the
Beat-L newsgroup.
Many members are nodding their heads in complete
understanding.
ddr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:13:52 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: anger/doesn't like to be reminded of fits
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
commanlity of
communication
peace
the ground, not
the figure
nor the
school yard
grunts.
mc
JK: MEXICO CITY
BLUES
113th chorus
Got up and
dressed up
and went out & got laid
Then died and got
buried
in a coffin in the grave,
Man -
Yet everything is perfect,
Because it is
empty,
because it is
perfect
with
emptiness,
Because it is not
even happening.
Everything
is Ignorant of
its own emptiness -
Anger
Doesn't like to
be reminded of fits -
You start with
the Teaching
Inscrutable of the Diamond
And end with it,
your goal
is your startingplace,
N0 race was run,
no walk
of prophetic tonails
Across Arabies of
hot
meaning - you just
numbly dont get there
p168; donald
allen; the new american poetry
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:39:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of Paul Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerry
forward what you will- i really dont
care- but... that letter was a
persoanl
correspondence that I inadverdantley mailed to the list. For that i
apologize. The
list is not the place for personal correspondence and it was a
button clicking
mistake.
i was always raised to admit when I
did wrong- I do so now. I might
not necessarily
agree with what you say- but i will defend your right to say
them. I see now
the potential this list has for bringing out the narrow minded
anger of
individuals. Afraid I fell prey to that. I think you are wrong on
your Kerouac
opinions- but they are yours to be wrong or right on.
Gene Lee
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:42:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of Paul Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane
i appreciate you support- and... that
was a pretty damn big Oops! I
will watch my
fingers in the future- and read addresses better.
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:45:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac Birthday readings
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
BOSTON's Annual
KEROUAC BIRTHDAY Reading
this year on
Tuesday March 10
7-10 p.m. $5.00
at Old West
Church
131 Cambridge St
Boston Massacusetts
sponsored by Jack
Powers (Stone Soup Poets)
tel. 617-227-0845
featured readers:
ED SANDERS
JOHN WEINERS
also, Jack
Micheline will be remembered.
John Landry will
read Kerouac's intro to Micheline's RIVER OF RED WINE
(the only intro
Kerouac wrote) and a selection of Micheline's hallmark
poems and songs.
Jack Micheline
died on a BART train in San Francisco Friday Feb. 27
of a heart
attack. He was 68.
also to check out
other Kerouac events go to
<A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/calender.html">Jack
Kerouac
Calender and
events</A>
which is at
http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/calender.html
enjoy and Happy
Birthday Jack
Attila
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:25:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ireneaus13 <Ireneaus13@AOL.COM>
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Please take me
off the list. thanks.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:02:46 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: America
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Nancy
Brodsky wrote:
>
> The
possibilty that "1835" in America is a typo changes the meaning of
> the
> stanza. I
had interepreted it as Ginsberg reacting to the McCarthyism
> of
> the sixties
by looking back at communism when he was a child and then,
>
saying.."but the party was awesome in the 1830's", you know what I
> mean?
Scott Nearing's
dates were from 1883-1983. Obviously he
lived a long
time but was not
alive in 1835.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:38:09 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Some of Paul Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 01:02 PM
3/9/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 09-Mar-98 9:54:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET
writes:
>
><< OK,
Paul Maher, time for Sampas to get you a new email address. This is
> getting
forwarded straight to Bill Gargan.
> --Gerry Nicosia >>
>
>I just want
to say, lest anyone should wonder, that Gene Lee is a real person
>with a real
address in Florida. I met Gene last year in the Beat Generation
>chat room on
AOL and have had many interesting conversations with him about
>the practice
of meditation, as well as poety. Gene is an "epic" poet who was
>kind enough
to send me his 1997 collection in chapbook format for Christmas.
>
>His
enthusiasm for my work is flattering, and more so since I happen to know
>he does exist.
I remember last year, the "Who is Diane De Rooy" thread. I hope
>I can spare
him--and all of us--a similar, tedious "investigation."
>
>Gene, welcome
to the world of goofs. You have now officially been
>indoctrinated
into the "Oops! I meant that to be a Private Post" club of the
>Beat-L
newsgroup. Many members are nodding their heads in complete
>understanding.
>
>ddr
>
March 9, 1998
Considering
everything else you lied about Diane, including the supposed
presence of New
York Public LIbrary documents in the MEMORY BABE archive,
there is no
reason at all we should believe you here.
I would like you to
have a letter
written by U Mass, Lowell, listing all the New York Public
Library xeroxes
that are in my archive, send that letter to Mr. Gargan, and
I authorize him
to print it here on the Beat List.
Until such time as that, I think
everything you say should be held
up to the most
stringent examination.
--Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:43:41 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Some of Paul Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 01:39 PM
3/9/98 EST, you wrote:
>Gerry
> forward what you will- i really dont
care- but... that letter was a
>persoanl
correspondence that I inadverdantley mailed to the list. For that i
>apologize.
The list is not the place for personal correspondence and it was a
>button
clicking mistake.
> i was always raised to admit when I
did wrong- I do so now. I might
>not
necessarily agree with what you say- but i will defend your right to say
>them. I see
now the potential this list has for bringing out the narrow minded
>anger of
individuals. Afraid I fell prey to that. I think you are wrong on
>your Kerouac
opinions- but they are yours to be wrong or right on.
>
Gene Lee
>
Anybody who'd
believe you, pal, would believe the moon was made of green
cheese. SOrry, you can't do your dirty work and walk
off that easy.
--GN
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:49:56 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Penny Arcade
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Press, P.O.Box 75, Renfro Valley, KY, 40473
Subject: Re: Diane's post about Nicosia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
By way of Henry
Morin, Diane De Rooy said:
> I almost
burned all my Kerouac books because I so loathed this
> man, this
self-absorbed egomaniac who cared so little for his
> own child. I
didn't, of course, but I did have them all stacked
> in a fire
pit in the back yard, ready to go
=== And we're
supposed to expect her to be rational on everything else?
Anyone who would
even THINK about burning books just because they didn't
like the person
who wrote it obviously can't be trusted to write sane
articles about
said author.
> But I found
so many holes in his telling of Jan's story, which
> had a
"National Enquirer" feel to it
> In the
meantime, all these people were surfacing to talk to
> me, people
who'd never spoken out before, including relatives
> and
employees in Ginsberg's and Burroughs' camps
=== So first she
compares Nicosia to the National Enquirer, then
proceeds to use
the National Enquirer's own favorite trick : anonymous,
unnamed sources.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - ky
listening to
Bukowski's "Hostage"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:45:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: subscription commands
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
E-mail listserv@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the body of
the e-mail type: Unsubscribe BEAT-L
Mr. Gargan,
Another list to
which I subscribe includes a line of unsub instruction at the
bottom of each
post. NO ONE EVER posts asking for such
instructions.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:25:06 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: another victory
Comments: cc:
eapoe@chelmsford.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
March 9, 1998
As I agreed with Mr. Gargan last fall,
I will restrict my "estate"
postings on the
Beat List to news of court decisions.
There was a decision today in
Albuquerque, at the lower, probate level.
The decision was completely in my
favor.
We asked that Mr. Lash stop hindering
our attempts to get Jan
Kerouac's
business documents (for example, from Sterling Lord and Viking
Penguin). We also asked for a mutual exchange of
accountings between the
two executors
(myself and Mr. Lash), rather than the one-sided demand Mr.
Lash had been
making for me to provide him with my accounting while his
accounting was to
be hidden from me.
The judge ruled that I have a right to
see Jan Kerouac's business
documents.
The judge ruled that there should be a
mutual exchange of
accountings
between the executors.
Translated: that means I can no longer
be shut out of my literary
executor job by
the sort of blindfold that had been placed on me.
The bigger issues, such as my ability
to carry on Jan Kerouac's
lawsuit to
recover and preserve her father's archive, still remain to be
decided by the
higher, New Mexico appellate court.
As in the past when a ruling was made
in my favor, I expect a rash
of
"douchebag" postings, as well as further accusations of supposed
criminal
activity on my
part. And surely an update of Paul Maher's website. I can
even name the
people that will make these postings, but I will refrain from
this. These few people have made the Beat List a
shooting gallery, with
myself the bearer
of the target. I believe Mr. Gargan will
be making an
announcement
regarding this problem in the next few days.
If anyone wants further details, you
can reach me directly at
GNicosia@earthlink.net
Thanks for your support.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:57:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Shasheblu <Shasheblu@AOL.COM>
Subject: a question posed again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi,
A while ago I asked people to discuss the
origin of their connection to the
beats. ("A question posed" 2-25-98). Well, I never got to read the
responses,
because of e-mail problems now resolved.
If this is a hassle,
don't worry about
it, but anyone who did post a response, I'd appreciate if
you re-send your
response to me at my e-mail address. (Shasheblu.aol.com)
Many thanks.
--Sharon
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:44:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: another victory
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The tougher the
battles, the sweeter the victories.
j grant
> March 9, 1998
> As I agreed with Mr. Gargan last fall,
I will restrict my "estate"
>postings on
the Beat List to news of court decisions.
> There was a decision today in
Albuquerque, at the lower, probate
>level.
> The decision was completely in my
favor.
> We asked that Mr. Lash stop hindering
our attempts to get Jan
>Kerouac's
business documents (for example, from Sterling Lord and Viking
>Penguin). We also asked for a mutual exchange of
accountings between the
>two executors
(myself and Mr. Lash), rather than the one-sided demand Mr.
>Lash had been
making for me to provide him with my accounting while his
>accounting
was to be hidden from me.
> The judge ruled that I have a right to
see Jan Kerouac's business
>documents.
> The judge ruled that there should be a
mutual exchange of
>accountings
between the executors.
> Translated: that means I can no longer
be shut out of my literary
>executor job
by the sort of blindfold that had been placed on me.
> The bigger issues, such as my ability
to carry on Jan Kerouac's
>lawsuit to
recover and preserve her father's archive, still remain to be
>decided by
the higher, New Mexico appellate court.
> As in the past when a ruling was made
in my favor, I expect a rash
>of
"douchebag" postings, as well as further accusations of supposed
criminal
>activity on
my part. And surely an update of Paul Maher's website. I can
>even name the
people that will make these postings, but I will refrain from
>this. These few people have made the Beat List a
shooting gallery, with
>myself the
bearer of the target. I believe Mr.
Gargan will be making an
>announcement
regarding this problem in the next few days.
> If anyone wants further details, you
can reach me directly at
>GNicosia@earthlink.net
> Thanks for your support.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552 Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by sunflower.com id WAA22781
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:56:32 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: a question posed again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Shasheblu wrote:
>
> Hi,
> A while ago I asked people to discuss the
origin of their connection to the
> beats.
("A question posed" 2-25-98).
Well, I never got to read the
> responses, because of e-mail problems now
resolved. If this is a hassle,
> don't worry about it, but anyone who did post
a response, I'd appreciate if
> you re-send your response to me at my e-mail
address. (Shasheblu.aol.com)
> Many thanks.
> --Sharon
>
I was introduced
to william and we became friends. I met
allen through
him. Our first
serious social interaction was fishing.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 05:09:07 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat ice cream
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I personally
recommend "Cherry Garcia." But get the yogurt, cuz' the ice
cream is like
99.9% saturated fat. --Sara
At 01:34 AM
3/27/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I think
that's Phish ice cream you're describing
>
>--Sharon, who
tried Phish ice cream for the first time a week ago
>
>Tread37
wrote:
>there are
tiny phudge phish in it. and caramel, i
think. good stuff. wooo!
>go ben and
jerry! :o)
>
>in response
to Nancy:
><<Anyway,
Wavy Gravy ice cream is very good, which makes
>
Ben&Jerry's very very beat! :) >>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:16:42 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: subscription commands
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>E-mail listserv@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>in the body
of the e-mail type: Unsubscribe BEAT-L
>
>Mr. Gargan,
>Another list
to which I subscribe includes a line of unsub instruction at the
>bottom of
each post. NO ONE EVER posts asking for
such instructions.
>Dennis
When thinking
people subscribe to a list they keep the original notice so
they know how to
unsubscribe.
They are usually
reminde to do so.
Yet every day or
so some dufuss indignantly shouts, "UNSUBSCRIBE ME!" A And
not infrequently
they get pissed when no one takes the time to send them
directions.
ARGH!
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:18:38 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: America
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> Nancy
Brodsky wrote:
>>
>> The
possibilty that "1835" in America is a typo changes the meaning of
>> the
>> stanza.
I had interepreted it as Ginsberg reacting to the McCarthyism
>> of
>> the
sixties by looking back at communism when he was a child and then,
>>
saying.."but the party was awesome in the 1830's", you know what I
>> mean?
>
>Scott
Nearing's dates were from 1883-1983.
Obviously he lived a long
>time but was
not alive in 1835.
>DC
I don't Nancy.
There wasn't a party in 1835.. It's either a typo or AG is
saying something
we haven't snapped to.
There was great
strength in he Communist Party in this counry in 1935 and
AG would have
been exposed to that strength where he grew up. That's why I
feel it's
probably a typo.
DC: Of course
Nearing wasn't alive in 1835. Did I miss a post that implied
that he was?
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:22:48 -0800
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: a question posed again
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
First
exposure--"On the Road" read mostly with flashlight under the
covers when I was
13-14. Naked Lunch soon thereafter
(18-19) read on
pot in first
apartment. Read most of Snyder in
college and later
GINSBURG, Whalen,
Corso, Ferlinghetti, et. al. Met
Ginsburg on several
occasions and have
photocopy of "Plutonium Ode" in his handwriting along
with signed
copies of "Howl, Reality Sandwiches, etc." Met and
interviewed
Burroughs in NYC in 1978 and gave him a manuscript of mine
which he
critiqued through James Grauerholz.
Spent about an hour with
him in loft on
Bowery and Prince. Met Snyder in college
and have
continued to
follow his work as well. Have signed
copies of several
Burroughs works
(paper). Good question, Sharon. Last ran into Allen in
14th Street Post
office just after Collected Works published two years
ago or so. Mark J
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:38:51 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: may i suggest a brief intermission?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
the dukes are uup
again, circling round their libraries, i don't want to
enter into that
game, so i made up my own, kind of a reverse cutup (wsb
boys, don't jump
me for this, i'm just goofin'). it is called magna art,
the art of
randomly picking words from my fridge (or a dictionary with
eyes closed) and
playing with them.
ok at 5 am this
mroning (EST) i sat down with word string single column
to begin to play
magna art, when i discovered after at least a half hour
or forehead
sweating work that it had all disappeard, i cried "no! el
nino is
back!" or the elves. so,
ok, the computer
swallowed my home work but i'll do my best to recapture
the game.
i've been a bit
blocked since returning the funeral and finding all that
stuff still
roiling here, so i have taken to gazing at the magna poetry
set on my (empty)
fridge:
i had originally
placed all words singly . the computer ate them,
but i'll go with
my original pick up of the words(thus breaking my own
rules as you will
see below):
however, true
magna art requires rules: 1) words should be picked
randomnly no
matter how much they group in not so senseless clumps that
are painful to
break up (2) you can add maximum 3 words to make some
jabber-sense -
they must be marked with an * (3) you may reuse same word
two times maximum
2 words but must be shown as () . now, as i may have
tipped my hand
too much, or not, you are free to rearrange my words or
pick out random
(as possible) list of words and pass it on.
i hate rules
i hope you do too
because i am not
going to spend another hour recreating my work of
spontaneous art,
what you see is
spontaneous clumpings taken directly from the fridge,
so,
you are free to
use these words - would like to see else could
be done
them as
clumped, or a list of yr own. that we
can play with. title came
with
fridge(batteries not included)
do beat girls
read?
bluely willing
heave at me here
watch
skin say and some
iron our day
only two trudge
two eggs
curse it
purple of recall
boiling sea
did say
forest
and breast
worship
sweat leg
(worship)
these urge drool,
lather.
mean poke *at
fluff
felt butt lust
felt (butt)
above diamond
why frantic
smear
knifeless
meat under
puppy
ugly garden
winter kill rose
and blow at tiny
moon
*and
tiny head rock
club and these
urge
true of no fiddleler
but mean my way
thorugh
bitter blood
still.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:43:46 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"oh mama,
can this really be the end,
to be stuck
inside of mobile
with the memphis
blues again.
Paul Buckberry
wrote:
> "You
can check out any time you like but you can never leave"
oh btw, my 13 yr old nephew's english teacher
is using dylan lyrics to
teach poetics.
i thought that
was pretty cool. he does too.
zip
glash
bone.
gone.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:11:27 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
"You can
check out any time you like but you can never leave"
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:48:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Riddle me this...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Okay, this is
from Satori in Paris, pg 83:
The innkeeper
says:"well pay your room bill and go down rue VIctor Hugo, on
the corner is
cognac, go get your valise and settle your affairs and come
back here find
out if theres a room tonight, beyond that old buddy old Neal
Cassady cant go
no further..."
OKay, so where
did Neal Cassady come from? I read that line and I was like,
"whoa, where
did that come from? How does this Breton innkeeper know about
Neal? Kerouac
hasnt talked about Neal in this book..."
Any ideas?
~Nancy
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:15:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Some of Paul Maher
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
hello folks,
alright, i hate
to step into these discussions, but i have to clear up one
thing. i have
also known gene aside from the list. actually, i'm the one who
told him about
it. i have been surprised at the bitterness of his posts
lately, and told
him so. but he isn't paul maher. i'm almost positive.
gerry, i think
you're overreacting a wee bit. don't get me wrong, it's
completely
understandable. i know you're dealing with a lot of shit. i know
that this whole
thing seems ridiculous. but i'll vouch for gene. at least that
he is himself.
i wish we could
move on from this and get back to discussing the beats. but oh
well, ahhh me,
sigh sigh sigh...
~~marlene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:53:20 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: crap
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I was shocked and
insulted at the name calling and nastiness directed at
me by phil C. I
know that phil had a list of names but i was on the list
and thought it
sickening and took it personal. When
Gene came on I
thought it might
be paul because it seemed like one continuous thread,
but then thought
it wasn't the same language pattern, I wasn't sure. I
now believe that
there is a Gene. I know I should just
leave this alone
because I am so
sick of the nastiness and attacks but...
I would like to
ask Gene some questions because it seemed so consistant.
Were you on the
list for a while?
Did someone
encourage you to get on the list or to
barrage Gerry
whenever he
posted? I ask because I have a dreadful
curiousity. I know
you may chose to
answer or not. But I envision some
e-mail saying that
paul was kicked
off and you should get on and give it to gerry good. I
am stupid enough
that when I am asked a question unless it involves
someone else's
privacy i answer.
I have tried to stay open minded about
"sides" because there is
usually truth on
both side. The behavoir of the sampas
camp married to
the paranoia of
Gerry has created such an ocean of shit.
Diane D. telling
us we would get a investigative report telling another
side then getting
us to read her emotional personal essay with so much
heresay and
opinion on stuff was weird. From her post I thought it was
on Jo's web
site. So I thought that was where the
url was. I chose not
to go to Pauls
site from the earlier post because he had been acting
like such a
crackpot. I could imagine Jo being fair enough to post
another side if
the article was concientiously written. To be fair I
probably would of
gone to the article if it had been presented as a
slanted personal
thing. I resent being mislead.
Her posts usually
show coherent thought.
I am teed off , if anyone plans to post
more information let us all
hope it is
factual and not full of emotional garbage.
Please edit your
information.
got it off my
rather large lumpy chest.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:22:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Minor Characters
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I just finished
reading Joyce Johnson's book, after hearing it mentioned so
many times, and I
loved it, to say the least. I thought her writing was
graceful, and
evocative of the times she grew up in, some of which overlapped
my childhood
experiences (the Fifties).
I meant to quote
some things from her book here for discussion, but I mailed
it to her
yesterday and asked her to inscribe it for me, so I don't have the
book next to me.
But I would very much like to discuss this book, for a bunch
of reasons.
The main thing I
found notable in the book is how much her depiction of jack
matched my own
impressions of him. I had a sort of "homecoming" feeling,
reading her words
about him, his shyness, his inconsistencies, his
disappointments,
his fatalism. I appreciated, as well, the way she kept
herself and
others in the "Beat orbit" that revolved around jack and Allen and
the "boys
club," rather than trying to revise history so that the "minor
characters"
took center stage.
Those people in
that orbit with Johnson did not attain the spotlight, like
jack did, but
they were far from "minor characters," which of course, is
Johnson's point.
Elise Cowen, LeRoi and Hettie Jones, Alene Lee, Lucien and
Cessa (sp?) Carr
(Cherry Valley! waving to CP and Pam), and the many others
she writes about
are fascinating elements of the group consciousness that
comprised the
community of Beats.
All in all, it's
a very satisfying read. If you haven't read it yet, I
recommend it. If
others have points to make on the book, I'd love to hear
them, discuss
them.
ddr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:18:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Future of Beat-l
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Some of you may
have noticed that the list has been changed at present
to a moderated
list. I did this because I did not want
any messages
being posted
while I decided whether or not to shut down the list for
good. I started Beat-l to facilitate scholarly
communication about the
writers of the
Beat Generation and to serve as a bulletin board for
poetry readings,
new publications, and Beat-related events.
I never
dreamed that the
discourse would sink to the level we've all experienced
on the list from
time to time this past year. When I
spoke to my
listserv
administrator about closing the list earlier this evening, he
asked me to
consider several possible alternatives including running a
moderated
list. I agreed to think about various
possibilities and
report back to
him on Wednesday and Thursday. I'm not
planning to post
any messages for
a day or two, so it might be best not to send any
messages to the
list at this time. I've enjoyed meeting
most of you on
the list and I
wish everyone well. On the whole, the
list has been a
very rewarding
experience for me. I hope it has been
rewarding for you
too.
Bill Gargan,
listowner
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:00:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: 2nd Annual Jackwake on AOL
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
As we did last
year, we will meet again to honor the life of Jack Kerouac in
the Beat
Generation chat room on America OnLine.
If you are on
AOL, you can get to the chat room by clicking on this link:
<A
HREF="aol://2719:2-2-beat%20generation">beat generation</A>
The event begins
at 3pm EST, noon PST, 8pm London... and so on. Last year we
read poems and
our own writings. We did the same for Allen when he passed in
April, and for
William in August. These were enriching experiences.
For more
information, contact me.
A note on Bill
Gargan's announcement: I hope Beat-L will continue, in some
form, and that it
will serve the purpose for which it was intended. I have a
feeling every
listmember would say the same thing to you today. Thanks, Bill.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender: duncang@spider.ento.csiro.au
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:03:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Duncan Gray
<Duncan.Gray@ento.csiro.au>
Subject: Ginsberg mini Festival in Melbourne,
Australia
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Somebody e-mailed
me this info, so this is all I know;
also - in melb
there is The Beat Train - Ginsberg Mini Festival - on
a train from
footsgray to melb... 25th Mar...
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Duncan Gray Stored Grain Research Laboratory
CSIRO Entomology,
GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (02) 6246
4178 Fax (02) 6246 4202 Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:56:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rodney Lee Phillips
<philli31@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Minor Characters
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I too liked
Johnson's _Minor Characters_. I teach it
in courses on the
American 60's and
find it makes a good counterpoint to texts like _On The
Road_ and _Dharma
Bums_. The average college freshman has
a tendancy to
romanticize the
seemingly unlimited freedom and individualism present in
Kerouac's books,
and Johnson's memoir does a good job of showing the darker
side of these
forces. The experiences of Johnson and
people like Hettie Jones
and Elise Cowan
make it clear that the freedom and individualism of many of
the Beats came at
a price--and often this price was paid by others. What
strikes me as
great about the book is Johnson's even-handed treatment of
Kerouac's often
poor treatment of her. She's not
vindictive in the slightest,
and simply
describes him in very humn, and humane , terms.
Rod Phillips
James Madison
College> > I just finished
reading Joyce
Johnson's book, after hearing it mentioned
so > many
times, and I loved it, to say the least. I thought her writing was
> graceful,
and evocative of the times she grew up in, some of which overlapped
> my childhood
experiences (the Fifties).
>
> I meant to
quote some things from her book here for discussion, but I mailed
> it to her
yesterday and asked her to inscribe it for me, so I don't have the
> book next to
me. But I would very much like to discuss this book, for a bunch
> of reasons.
>
> The main
thing I found notable in the book is how much her depiction of jack
> matched my
own impressions of him. I had a sort of "homecoming" feeling,
> reading her
words about him, his shyness, his inconsistencies, his
>
disappointments, his fatalism. I appreciated, as well, the way she kept
> herself and
others in the "Beat orbit" that revolved around jack and Allen and
> the
"boys club," rather than trying to revise history so that the
"minor
> characters"
took center stage.
>
> Those people
in that orbit with Johnson did not attain the spotlight, like
> jack did,
but they were far from "minor characters," which of course, is
> Johnson's
point. Elise Cowen, LeRoi and Hettie Jones, Alene Lee, Lucien and
> Cessa (sp?)
Carr (Cherry Valley! waving to CP and Pam), and the many others
> she writes
about are fascinating elements of the group consciousness that
> comprised
the community of Beats.
>
> All in all,
it's a very satisfying read. If you haven't read it yet, I
> recommend
it. If others have points to make on the book, I'd love to hear
> them,
discuss them.
>
> ddr
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:59:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: first exposures
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
the good question
about our various exposures to beat literature is up
again. i can't recall if i responded. my long and stream of
consciousness
reply from 1992 is in a piece typed in pretty much one
setting at a
macintosh titled "Mississippi" - it should be somewhere on
jo grant's
website soon.
the short of it
is that a student of mine who was an English major in my
two years at
Dartmouth College gave me a copy of Kerouac which i read
slowly - the same
student introduced me to the music of phil ochs and
bob dylan. a friend later played the WSB LP
"Breakthrough in the Grey
Room" and
his notions concerning cut-ups jelled with much of my own
thinking
concerning dylan's lyrics and rhetorical theories. Ginsberg's
connections are
small but significant. His pocket books
were evident on
the bookshelves
of students i enjoyed teaching over and over during my
teaching years.
so that's the
short of it. the version jo grant has is
slightly more
surreal :)
dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:00:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca>
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
Subject: KEROUAC CONNECTION?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
beat-l'ers
does anyone know if the Kerouac Connection
has been re-invigorated and
brought back to life (as was rumored)?
very interested in hearing more
abt it - i thought there was a fundraiser
going on at some point to
raise $ to get it going again (& i had
a review slated for including
in an upcoming issue...)
can anyone enlighten me?
thanks
derek
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:22:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: first exposures
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
My first
encounter with the Beat Generation came from reading my moms
autographed copy
of HOWL way back in the eighth grade, I think. I was
hooked, needless
to say.
~Nancy
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:27:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Re: KEROUAC CONNECTION?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 12-Mar-98 9:01:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
writes:
<< does
anyone know if the Kerouac Connection has been re-invigorated and
brought back to life (as was rumored)?
very interested in hearing more
abt it
>>
Derek, I spoke to
Mitch Smith about a week ago, I guess. I've been wondering
about the KC,
myself, as have most people who've seen it and read it over the
years.
His bookstore,
Turtle Island Books, failed last year and Mitch decided to
relocate to the
Bay Area. By now, he should be unpacking boxes in San Mateo.
He did tell me
that he'd found a business partner to sell advertising for the
KC, and that he
has enough editorial content for an issue. But as to when that
will happen?
Nothing, apparently, is firm. It does sound like he may be closer
to getting an
issue out than he was last year when I first spoke to him about
it.
For subscription
and other inquiries, you can email him at KeroConnec@aol.com.
I see him online
once in a while, so I know he checks his mail. I'd contact
him there, Derek.
I'm about 2 hours
away from opening up the beat generation chat room on AOL
for our second
annual jackwake. I hope you AOLers and IRC users can show up
and join us in
our celebration, which will go on until midnight PST. Bring a
gallon of red
wine... the cheaper, the better...
====
It was in
Centralville I was born... Across the wide basin to the hill-on Lupine
Road, March 1922,
at five o'clock in the afternoon of a red-all-over
suppertime, as
drowsily beers were tapped in Moody and Lakeview saloons and
the river rushed
with her cargoes of ice over reddened slick rocks, and on the
shore the reeds
swayed among mattresses and cast-off boots of Time, and lazily
pieces of snow
dropped plunk from bagging branches of black thorny oily pine
in their thaw,
and beneath the wet snows of the hillside receiving the sun's
lost rays the
melts of winter mixed with roars of Merrimac-I was born. Bloody
rooftop. Strange
deed. All eyes I came hearing the river's red; I remember
that afternoon, I
perceived it through beads hanging in a door and through
lace curtains and
glass of a universal sad lost redness of mortal damnation...
-JK, "Dr.
Sax"
=====
Those who talk
about the future are scoundrels. It is the present that
matters. To evoke
one's posterity is to make a speech to maggots.
- Louis Ferdinand
Celine
happy birthday,
jack!
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:36:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Minor Characters
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 12-Mar-98 9:00:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
philli31@pilot.msu.edu
writes:
<<
Johnson's memoir does a good job of showing the darker
side of these forces. The experiences of Johnson and people like
Hettie
Jones
and Elise Cowan make it clear that the freedom
and individualism of many of
the Beats came at a price--and often this
price was paid by others. What
strikes me as great about the book is
Johnson's even-handed treatment of
Kerouac's often poor treatment of her. She's not vindictive in the
slightest,
and simply describes him in very humn, and
humane , terms. >>
Yes, Rod, I
agree, enthusiastically. She could have been bitter or resentful;
she could have
gone on about opportunities denied her. But she didn't. And her
vision of Kerouac
is palpable, real, as you say, "human, and humane." She knew
he was a
contradiction, a conflicted man, not a superhero or a cartoon. She
showed him in all
his dimensions and her writing foreshadowed his eventual
downfall and
demise, certainly and with acceptance.
Although the book
is not a biography, but an autobiographical accounting,
Johnson managed
to bring jack to life, and I'd like to see her get more credit
for her telling
of the story of jack's life.
ddr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:54:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@aol.com>
Subject: suicide and dharma bums
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
so my question
is, does anyone know who the character of rosie buchanan--the
woman who kills
herself--in dharma bums is based on?
also, does anyone have
biographical
information on her?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:04:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@aol.com>
Subject: The unpublished "Desolation
Journal"?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
So my sister gets
some environmentalist magazine... "Sierra"... I'm guessing
it has something
to do with the club and all of those wildlife calenders she
owns... And in
the march/april issue there's this lovely article: "Rolling
Towards the Moon:
Jack Kerouac's last great adventure." It's all about the
hiking in the
_Dharma Bums_. Actually, the article's pretty boring. But it has
these quotes in
it:
"As seen
from Starvation Ridge, Desolation Peak is like a Chinese mountain
with pointy firs
and gray rocks and a cute round point with the little Pagoda
Lookout on top-
it looked like a dreaming meadow mount when first seen from
the lake below,
but when climbed it was an inaccessible world parapet."
"A mad
sunset pouring in sea foams of cloud through unimaginable crags, with
every rose tint
of no-hope beyond, I feel just like it, brilliant and bleak
beyond words-
pow-"
"I can feel
the world rolling towards the moon."
And they're all
credited as coming from JKs unpublished Desolation Journal. So
my question: what
is this journal, and how come this guy Jack Sutter (who
wrote the
article) gets to go mountain climbing with it in hand, and I don't?
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:06:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Subject: First Exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
My first exposure
to the Beats was from Bob Dylan. When I
read some
article or
interview with Dylan he mentioned Jack Kerouac.
Later, I
read about
Rolling Thunder Review and saw Dylan at Kerouac's grave. I
then began
reading Kerouac and Burroughs and buying up the Pocket Poets
series form City
Lights. That was back in the mid-70's.
--
Peace,
Bentz Kirby
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:28:17 EST
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@zipcon.com>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: suicide and dharma bums
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Sockmunkie wrote:
>
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> so my
question is, does anyone know who the character of rosie buchanan--the
> woman who
kills herself--in dharma bums is based on?
also, does anyone have
> biographical
information on her?
natalie
jackson. she was neal's girlfriend. jack tells the story well
and you'll find
more info in memory babe
tkc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[151.198.234.47]
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:29:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: first exposures
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Good Day alL,
my first beat
exposure was a ginsberg poem. we read it
in class in high
school. i thought
it was a superb poem, but i thought every poem we read
was fab. it wasn't until OTR that i jumped into the
whole deal. now i
find myself
learning french just to read rimbaud in the original
language along
with other beat influences. i'd never
even heard of
burroughs or many
of the others until recently. i love it
all.
V(Al)halla
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:31:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: first exposures
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
My first exposure
to Beat was through Mad magazine in about 1957 or 58.
Kerouac was
mentioned frequently and I thought it was a made up word or name
like Potrezebie
or poiuyt. I was 10 in 1957. In 1964 I saw a reference
someplace (?) to
Kerouac which clarified things. I bought
The Dharma Bums,
read it in one
sitting, and was hooked. I was already
familiar with yabyum
from extensive
interest in anything carnal. I had been
to Desolation Valley
in the Sierras
with the Boy Scouts and somehow made an association.
>From 65-70 I
was in college in Northern California buying and reading every
raggedy used
piece of Kerouac I could find. Didn't
read Town and the City.
Didn't read
Thomas Wolfe either. Kerouac turned me
on to jazz. First I
checked out
Charlie Parker albums from the library.
Then, I hit Dizzy,
Miles....and on
and on.
In 65 I
"discovered" both Ginsberg and Burroughs. Howl and Naked Lunch. Wow!
I was 18.
In 1970, I moved
to San Francisco. City Lights, Vesuvio,
easy availability of
all the beat
literature I could handle. I lived within
walking distance of
Columbus and
Broadway. Charters JK bio came out while
I was there trying to
get published in
Rolling Stone. Their Straight Arrow
Books was her publisher.
I am still in awe
of her and her husband (still?) Sam. Sam
Charters had done
all the Blues
research and travel that I wanted to do.
He had written liner
notes for
Lightnin' Hopkins, fer chrisakes!! He
had edited Some Poems/Poets,
Studies in
American Underground Poetry Since 1945 which included great stuff
by Spicer, Duncan,
Eigner, even! In addition to the
expected stuff from
Ginsberg,
Ferlinghetti, Snyder, Robert Creeley, Charles Olson, and freaking
Lew Welch!
Man, I was in
heaven. Then, in 1973, I left SF and moved up north to Trinity
County. I was gonna be a poet. For real, this time, not just the goddam
drivel I had
messed with as a "youth". I
was a grown man (Ha!) 25 years old.
I loved it up in
the woods. I wrote a lot. I switched from smoking dope and
dropping acid and
mescaline to drinking beer. I got big
and strong, working
with a splitting
maul, spreading horse manure by the dumptruck load. I read
and I wrote. I was Japhy Ryder, in my dreams, I was Japhy
Ryder. I loved my
life. I loved my friends.
Then my father
died.
I decided to grow
up...I thought that meant I should shave,
begin a "career",
marry, and raise
a family. So I did.
I've been
teaching Junior High (7th grade English) since 1976. I'm the best
goddam 7th grade
English teacher you ever saw. I love
those kids. I hate the
school
system. My son heads for UC Santa Cruz
next September to major in
Literature. I love my wife and she loves me even when I
spend too many hours
reading the
BEAT-L posts. I used to be a reader and
writer. I've devolved
with age into
little more than a collector of books that remain unread on the
shelves. English teachers in the California school
system don't have time to
read.
Have I strayed
too far from the thread? Did you want to
know more about my
entre into the
Beat demimonde? No matter, I'm
beat. I'm beat right down to
my socks. But I'm Beatific, too.
Glad to know you.
Dennis
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:32:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Yan Feng <yfeng@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: First Exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
My first exposure
to Beats was from a book with name like " an introduction
to modern
literature". In it is a chapter containing excerpts from works of
beats. I am very
interested in On the Road. But I can't find beat books in
stores. Last
summer after i decided to travel some, i have looked for OTR
and hoped i can
take it at hand. Until back and new semester began, I
borrowed one from
library. Not very long after I subscribed this list. It's
huge exposure to
Beats!
Yan
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>My first
exposure to the Beats was from Bob Dylan.
When I read some
>article or
interview with Dylan he mentioned Jack Kerouac.
Later, I
>read about
Rolling Thunder Review and saw Dylan at Kerouac's grave. I
>then began
reading Kerouac and Burroughs and buying up the Pocket Poets
>series form
City Lights. That was back in the
mid-70's.
>
>--
>Peace,
>
>Bentz Kirby
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:35:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jjdorfner <Jjdorfner@aol.com>
Subject: Re: suicide and dharma bums
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
the woman was a
lover of Neal's. her name was Natalie
Jackson. she died in
1955 after
climbing up on a roof, taking a piece of glass and trying to cut
her own throat,
then leaping/falling 3 stories to her death.
don't think neal
or jack for that matter, ever got over it.
john
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:36:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sedington <Sedington@aol.com>
Subject: Rosie Buchanan/Natalie Jackson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I may not have
this entirely right, but I believe the Rosie character in
"Dharma
Bums" is drawn from a woman named Natalie Jackson with whom Neal
Cassady was
having one of his numerous affairs in the mid-50s.
Carolyn was with
the kids in San Jose and Natalie was Neal's "girlfriend" in
SF when Neal's
Southern Pacific RR job took him there. Seems like I read
somewhere she was
Neal's "date" and the Gallery Six reading.
I think the story
is that Neal talked her into taking part in a scam with him
whereby she went
with Neal to the Cassady's bank and posed as Carolyn so they
could withdraw a
large sum of money that Neal had gotten in a settlement over
an accident he had
while a brakeman on the SP railroad. Neal then used the
money to bet on a
"sure thing" betting scheme he'd concocted at a
racetrack--and,
of course, lost it all. Natalie was terrified that she was
going to be
arrested and jailed for falsely posing as Carolyn, so when she saw
the police around
the building where she was living she panicked and jumped
through the
window. [That incident is described in DB]
This is the
version that comes to mind without my checking any sources--its
too early and I
haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. Maybe some of the rest
of you can refine
it a bit.
Steve Edington
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:37:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@drc.com>
Subject: First Exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
A naked Allen
Ginsberg in Life Magazine, and believe it or not, Maynard
G. Krebbs on the
Dobie Gillis Show. He was cool then and he's cool now.
Watching re-runs
30 years later on Nick at Night, Maynard was the only
well adjusted,
comfortable withb himself character on the show.
Wooorrrrrrkkkk?!
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:40:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jack Foley <JFOLEY@crs.loc.gov>
Subject: suicide and dharma bums -Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I think that's
Natalie Jackson. I have no bio info
beyond what the various
Kerouac bios have
to say.
-- Jack Foley
>>>
Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@aol.com> 03/12/98 09:54pm >>>
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
so my question
is, does anyone know who the character of rosie
buchanan--the
woman who kills
herself--in dharma bums is based on?
also, does anyone
have
biographical
information on her?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:45:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@acs.appstate.edu>
Subject: Request of information (fwd)
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Got this request
and have no real notion as to where to send this person
myself. Thought if anyone would know, they'd be here.
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar
1998 12:43:14 +0100
From: Luca
Guerneri <gguerner@tin.it>
To:
kh14586@porter.appstate.edu
Subject: Request
of information
I visited your
website and found it extremely interesting. I'a an
Italian literay
translator working
on the Italian
version of Old Angel Midnight. It is such a hard task...
do you know where
I could find
some detailed
information concerning the book? Please contact me: my
email is
gguerner@tin.it.
Thanks
l u c a
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:50:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>
Subject: Re: "Wake Up"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Hoping one of the
booksellers who frequent the BeatL can help this fellow.
Thanks,
j grant
>From:
"yo mama" <usanetsuxxx@hotmail.com>
>To:
librarian@bookzen.com
>Subject: Re:
"Wake Up"
>Date: Fri, 13
Mar 1998 08:31:11 PST
>my names
miller and i wanted to know if you could help me. im tryin to
>find a way to
get a hold of a copy of "wake up", by kerouac. it was
>publishd in
serialized form between 93-95 by "tricycle: a buddhist
>review".
if you know where i can get copys of this, or somthing, lemme
>know.
> thanx. miller
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Alan
Kaufman a younger generation poet.
Cc:
Akpoem@aol.com
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.96.980313140047.28369A-100000@am.appstate.edu>
References:
good sunday
friends, this is of some interesting:
"A new young
Kerouac...Alan Kaufman's poetry has the bebop sound of the best
Beat
poetry." Ruthe Stein, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE
check Alan
Kaufman on this url:
http://members.aol.com/Akpoem/index.html
i have updated
the BeatSuperNova adding Alan to the list of beats
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:42:04 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 15
Mar 1998 11:32:54...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message dated Sun,
15 Mar 1998 11:32:54 +0100 with
subject "Alan
Kaufman a younger
generation poet." has been submitted to the moderator of
the BEAT-L list:
William Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:53:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: suicide and dharma bums
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Yhea Natalie
Jackson was Neal's chick..there is a picture of her and neal in
allen ginsberg's
"Howl" transcripts by Barry Miles....
crystal meth
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:53:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: First Exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Some beat books
you want wanna try are...
"The
Portable Beat Reader" by Ann Charters
"The Beat
Generation" by Bruce Cook
or some groovy
stories on some crazy beats called "Tales Of Beatnik Glory" By
Ed Sanders/
Crystal Meth
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:54:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ann MacGibbon
<macgibbon@mediaone.net>
Subject: First Exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
My first exposure
to the "Beat" sensibility was when I discovered the music
of Bob Dylan and
the Doors in the mid-1960s. I was a teenager then--living
in Muncie,
Indiana. I remember that when I began to listen to this
music I felt
something like, "Oh my God, there are other people out there
like
me!" It was a revelation. Like Mark, I also watched
"Dobie
Gillis" and
enjoyed Maynard G. Krebs, though now I see that the portrayal
was insulting to
the real "Beats," who were novelists, poets, and artists.
<P>I think
I was subliminally aware of Jack Kerouac then, too, but I didn't
read <I>On
the Road</I> until about 1969, when I was preparing to drive
across the
country with my boyfriend. The book made a huge impression
on me, but I
didn't read any more Kerouac until a few years ago when I
returned to
college at U. Mass. Lowell. I became deeply interested
in Kerouac and
spent my undergrad years reading everything by and about
him and finding ways
to study him in my classes. Needless to say,
when I
reread <I>On the Road </I>as a mature adult I appreciated
it in a
completely different way than I had as a young woman! But
I still love the
book and see it as a classic--maybe even great--American
novel.
There's no doubt in my mind that Kerouac was a genius--he
had a truly
original mind and he changed the face of our culture forever.
<P>Ann
MacGibbon
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> </HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:55:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Subject: Second thoughts on first exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
HMMM, my second
thoughts on first exposure. I now
remember that in a
college English
class we read Ferlinghetti's Coney Island or something
like that. The one where he has a carnival image. I didn't know he was
a
"beat" poet, and I guess some say he ain't. But that would be my
first beat
exposure on the works side.
Before that, I
remember reading a story on Kerouac when he died. I
would say the
article came out, maybe in Rolling Stone in late '69 or
early '70. He was drunk and ranting about Viet Nam and
patriotism. I
remember thinking
he sounded like an ass and wondering why people
thought he was a
great writer.
A few years
later, I began to seperate the man and his writing.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:56:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: first exposures
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I first heard of
the Beats around age 14, when I read
about Neal
Cassady in "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test".
Also there was a
great music magazine called "Crawdaddy"
around that time,
more underground than Rolling Stone
but somehow
widely available in boring Long Island, where
William S.
Burroughs had a regular column (so did
Paul
Krassner). I read Burroughs' "The
Great Shit Glut",
which is now
available in "The Adding Machine".
Needless
to say: Wow. The image of soft pigs that you can stick
forks into
definitely made an impression on me.
Later on I read
Allen Ginsberg's liner notes to Bob
Dylan's
Desire. That was all the Beat reading I
did
until I was an
adult and my sister Sharon persuaded
me to read
"On The Road", which was only about five
years ago ...
---------------------------------------------------------
| Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
|
|
|
| Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |
| (the beat literature web site) |
|
|
| "Coffeehouse: Writings from the
Web" |
| (a real book, like on paper) |
| also at
http://coffeehousebook.com |
| |
|
*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*
|
|
|
| "I think somebody better put out
the big light" |
| -- Elvis Costello |
---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:57:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@walrus.com>
Subject: Fwd: Hassan I Sabbah
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
This was
forwarded to the Bohemian mailing list by
the Louisville
based poet, Paul McDonald. Paul's
collection of
poetry, _Write of Passage_ is at:
http://www.levity.com/corduroy/archives/writeofpassage.htm
Gregory
----------------
Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: 03/12
2:32 PM
From: Paul McDonald
To: The Bohemian Mailing List
__________________________________________________
PATTI SMITH, IGGY
POP READ WORKS ABOUT CULT LEADER
HASSAN I SABBAH
Patti Smith, Iggy Pop, Jah Wobble, the Golden
Palominos'
Nicole Blackman,
and others will be reading various authors'
works about the
legend of the cult leader Hassan I Sabbah
from Alamut, for
a spoken word and musical album called
_The Hashisheen_.
Hassan I Sabbah is considered by many as
one of the
forefathers of cultism.
Other artists -- who will be reading the
Hassan I Sabbah-
inspired works of
Arthur Rimbaud, William S. Burroughs,
Brion Gysin,
Freya Stark, Gerard de Nerval, and Marco Polo --
include actress
Lizzy Mercier Descloux, musician Sussan Deihan,
Psychic TV's
Genesis P-Orridge, Nus' Percy Howard, performance
artist/musician
Anne Clark, author Ira Cohen, and author Peter
Wilson. In
addition, ex-Golden Palomino Nicky Skopelitis,
producer/remixer
Bill Laswell (also of Golden Palominos
fame), Techno
Animal, and Eyeless in Gaza will be contributing
musical tracks
for the album as well.
According to Janet Rienstra, who is
co-producing the
readings with
Laswell, _The Hashisheen_ is expected to be
released sometime
in the spring on Meta Records and will
possibly be
distributed through Caroline Records. However,
the two producers
are still waiting for final clearance on
a couple of
written pieces from the Burroughs estate, though
they have
indicated that permission will be granted, says
Rienstra.
In addition, some of the works from the album
will be
read during a
reading titled _Illuminations_ on April 22 in
New York at St.
Marks Church. Though no one has been confirmed
to read at press
time, many artists who have previously worked
with Laswell are
expected to participate in the spoken word
event.
-Tina Johnson
__________________________________________________
all contents are
the copyright (c) 1996, 1997,1998 of N2K Inc.
any derivative
works of this content must hyperlink to and credit:
"Rocktropolis
allstar News at http://allstarmag.com">
Send comments,
inquiries, hot scoops and
slow wet kisses
to contact@allstarmag.com.
-----------------------------------------------------
To get off,
please email:
remove-allstarmag@list.allstarmag.com
To climb on,
please email: join-allstarmag@list.allstarmag.com
To comment,
please email:
allstarmag-owner@list.allstarmag.com
-----------------
End Forwarded Message -------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
"Spanish
Johnny drove in from the underworld last night
with bruised arms and broken rhythm and a beat
up old Buick,
but dressed just like dynamite."
"Incident on
57th Street"
by Bruce
Springsteen
on the album
_The Wild the
Innocent and the E Street Shuffle_
Columbia 32432,
1973
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:58:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@walrus.com>
Subject: Fwd: And Speaking of Hassan...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Here's an
announcement authored by Paul McDonald.
Gregory
----------------
Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: 03/12
8:02 PM
From: Paul McDonald
To: The Bohemian Mailing List
Announcing:
_A Burroughs Compendium:
Calling the Toads_
By Ron Whitehead
The book is a
collection of interviews with
William Burroughs
with a lot of photographs,
interviews,
memories, and transmissions from:
John Tytell,
Douglas Brinkley, Lee Ranaldo,
Ron Whitehead,
Tariq Zayid & Dee, rlmar, Allen
Ginsberg, and
Neil Hennessey
photographs:
Chris Felver, Jon Blumb, Mellon,
Gordon Ball,
Allen Ginsberg, & Lee Ranaldo
isbn:
0-9659826-0-2
price: $15.00
(postage included)
order direct
from:
Ring Tarigh
po box 1345
Westerly, RI 02891
checks made
payable to: Ring Tarigh
info provided by
Denis Mahoney, hasan@riconnect.com
Paul
-----------------
End Forwarded Message -----------------
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
"Well I'm
nobody's sugar-daddy now."
LOVESICK BLUES
by Irving Mills
and Charles Friend
as performed by
Hank Williams
No. 1 Best
Selling Retail Country & Western Record
March 1949
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:58:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@walrus.com>
Subject: Correction: Fwd: Hassan I Sabbah
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Gregory Severance
wrote on 3/14/98:
[snip]
>the
Louisville based poet, Paul McDonald. Paul's
>collection of
poetry, _Write of Passage_ is at:
>http://www.levity.com/corduroy/archives/writeofpassage.htm
What I wrote
above is not accurate. Paul's poetry
is not at that
URL. What is there is an _announcement_
of his book,
_Write of Passage_. For a brief bio of
Paul visit:
http://www.levity.com/corduroy/pmcdonald.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
rinaldo@pop.gpnet.it (Unverified)
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:05:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Alan Kaufman a younger generation poet.
Comments: cc:
Akpoem@aol.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
good sunday
friends, this is of some interesting:
"A new young
Kerouac...Alan Kaufman's poetry has the bebop sound of the best
Beat
poetry." Ruthe Stein, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE
check Alan
Kaufman on this url:
http://members.aol.com/Akpoem/index.html
i have updated
the BeatSuperNova adding Alan to the list of beats
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:06:22 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun, 15
Mar 98 14:05:23 EST...")
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Your message
dated Sun, 15 Mar 98 14:05:23 EST with subject "Alan Kaufman a
younger
generation poet." has been
successfully distributed to the BEAT-L
list (250
recipients).
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:06:58 EST
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@zipcon.com>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Rosie Buchanan/Natalie Jackson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Sedington wrote:
>
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I may not
have this entirely right, but I believe the Rosie character in
> "Dharma
Bums" is drawn from a woman named Natalie Jackson with whom Neal
> Cassady was
having one of his numerous affairs in the mid-50s.
> Carolyn was
with the kids in San Jose and Natalie was Neal's "girlfriend" in
> SF when
Neal's Southern Pacific RR job took him there. Seems like I read
> somewhere
she was Neal's "date" and the Gallery Six reading.
> I think the
story is that Neal talked her into.....snip.....
> Steve
Edington
my understanding
is that neal's feelings for natalie were very deep, she
was much more
than a casual affair. she was smart,
funny and
beautiful.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 19:47:01 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Second thoughts on first exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
That would be
Coney Island of the Mind...great collection!
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>HMMM, my
second thoughts on first exposure. I now
remember that in a
>college
English class we read Ferlinghetti's Coney Island or something
>like
that. The one where he has a carnival
image. I didn't know he was
>a
"beat" poet, and I guess some say he ain't. But that would be my
>first beat
exposure on the works side.
>
>Before that,
I remember reading a story on Kerouac when he died. I
>would say the
article came out, maybe in Rolling Stone in late '69 or
>early
'70. He was drunk and ranting about Viet
Nam and patriotism. I
>remember
thinking he sounded like an ass and wondering why people
>thought he
was a great writer.
>
>A few years
later, I began to seperate the man and his writing.
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 19:47:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ann MacGibbon
<macgibbon@mediaone.net>
Subject: Second thoughts on first exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
<P>
"I now remember that in a college English class we read Ferlinghetti's
Coney Island or
something like that."
<P>
This reminded me that I got
a copy of
Ferlinghetti's <I>A Coney Island of the Mind </I>as a high school
graduation
present from a rather unconventional friend of my parents.
I loved it then
and I still have it. I also remembered that I read
<I>The
Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test </I>even before I read <I>On the
Road--</I>probably
in
'69<I>. </I>I was a big fan of Tom Wolf then.
It's funny
thinking back to
those days. I don't remember if I realized who Neal
Cassady was when
I read the book--maybe that's what got me interested in
reading Kerouac;
I'm just not sure.
<P>
However, I know that now
I see many people
and events as connected in a way I wasn't aware of when
I was
younger. I'm not sure if I understood how much the Beats had
influenced the
things members of my generation were doing in the '60s.
Today I think
Kerouac's work was very much the catalyst for much of what
happened.
As William Burroughs once wrote, "Kerouac opened a million
coffee bars and
sold a million pairs of levis to both sexes. Woodstock
rises from his
pages."
<P>Ann
MacGibbon
<BR> </HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:23:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jjdorfner <Jjdorfner@aol.com>
Subject: Re: "Wake Up"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
you can purchase
back copies of Tricycle magazine...in which "wake up"
appeared. go into a bookstore and look at a tricycle
magazine and there
should be a order
form or a phone number where you can call and order which
ever back copies
you desire.
good luck
john j dorfner
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender:
morocco@pop.walrus.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:29:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@walrus.com>
Subject: Re: First Exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I remember
hearing my grandfather use the word "beatnik"
while he was driving
on U.S. 1 in New Smyrna Beach,
Florida. I was
about six or seven years old (1968-69).
He was referring
to some people with long hair we had just
passed. His tone
of voice was not sympathetic. I remember
my grandmother
saying, "It doesn't bother me if they
have long hair,
as long as they keep it clean."
My first
encounter with beat literature happenned in
the New Smyrna
Beach Public Library. I discovered
Ginsberg's poems,
"A Supermarket in California,"
"America,"
and "Sunflower Sutra," in Mark Strand's
anthology, _The
Contemporary American Poets: American
Poetry Since
1940_ (New York: New American Library, 1969).
I was in high
school at the time (I graduated from
New Smyrna Beach
Sr. High in 1980) and didn't know
what the hell
Ginsberg was talking about. But there
was something
about those poems that my dewy eyes
kept going back
to. I was bewitched. This encounter
with Ginsberg
marked the moment that I began to see
"what is on
the end of every fork."
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
"Have you
ever been experienced?
Not necessarily stoned but
Beautiful."
"Are You
Experienced?"
by Jimi Hendrix
on The Jimi
Hendrix Experience's 1967 album:
_Are You Experienced_
(Reprise 6261)
<<BULLDOG BREATH>>
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
<<BULLDOG BREATH
BOOKSTORE>>
http://www.mindspring.com/~us012808/door.html
*******************************************************
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:30:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: first contact with beats
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i want to thank
jo grant for getting my beatish poetics "Mississippi" up
on his manuscript
page at <http://www.bookzen.com>
as i said, it is
a surreal description of my imaginary connections with
beat literary
figures. it was one of my first real
attempts at
spontaneous prose
-- i typed it on a Macintosh in the attic of an old
funeral home on a
hill in Rock Island, Illinois looking over the
Mississippi River
to Davenport Iowa ... a Davenport not much changed
from the
description in On the Road 40 years ago.
dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:49:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@drc.com>
Subject: Natalie Jackson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I believe Natalie
is the woman with Neal in the photo on the cover of
the latest Viking
Edition of Visions of Cody. The picture I remember
most is of her
and Neal under a theater marque.
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:09:16 EST
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@ehc.edu>
Subject: Burroughs Seen At Blockbuster!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Greetings!
Hello
everyone. I was in the "special
interest" section of the
blockbuster movie
store the other day and saw a Burroughs movie.
I
think it was
called "The Burroughs Story" or "The Burroughs Files" or
something like
that. It had a picture of Burroughs on
the back in a
surgeon's outfit
with blood all over him. Does anyone
know about this?
Is it worth the
$3.50? (stupid question, I know)
Thanks,
Chris
--
"~God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
neverlived and
neverdied. That we should only learn it now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it is
already done, there's no more to do."
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:18:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Natalie Jackson
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Yheea thats right
Neal And Natalie under a theater marque...It read " Marlon
Brando" The
wild one, stranger wore a gun and tarazan the ape man!..
And the beat Goes
On..
Crystal
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:20:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: first exposures
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i listened to
dylan in 7th grade, discovered kerouac on the road same year,
and it ain't
stopped since
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:21:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sedington <Sedington@aol.com>
Subject: Gone in October
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Anybody know
where or how I can get ahold of an article/essay by John Clellon
Holmes called
"Gone in October"? He wrote it sometime after Kerouac's death.
The title is
self-explanatory.
Thanks--Steve
Edington Sedington@aol.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:48:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Gone in October
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Steve Sedington
wrote:
> Anybody know
where or how I can get ahold of an article/essay by John
Clellon
> Holmes
called "Gone in October"? He wrote it sometime after Kerouac's
death.
Probably the
easiest source to locate is "Representative Men" (University
of Arkansas Press
1988), a collection of Holmes' biographical essays, a
remarkable
book! Also includes two other pieces on
Kerouac, two on
Ginsberg, and
much more.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:49:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ann MacGibbon <macgibbon@mediaone.net>
Subject: Gone in October
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><HTML>
Steve--
<P>
I have a copy of an essay
called "Gone
in October--Update," in a collection called <I>Representative
Men:
The Biographical Essays of John Clellon Holmes. </I>It
was published by
the University of Arkansas Press in 1988. It may
be out of
print. In the introduction Holmes says the piece was originally
a journal entry
written right after Jack's death, "later expanded and polished
into its present
shape." It appeared in Playboy Magazine February,
1973, and also in
a book called <I>Gone in October, </I>Limberlost Press,
Idaho,
1985. It's about 40 pages long.
<P>Ann
<BR> </HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:50:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Preston Whaley
<paw8670@mailer.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Gone in October
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Steve,
Funny you mention
this title. i just picked it up at the
FSU library.
It's a collection
of essays. "Gone in October" refers to the collection,
but it also
indicates the title of one essay in the collection: The
Limberlost Press,
1985. I know this doesn't help you much,
but the book
exists. You should be able to find it through a
library, interlibrary
loan, or order it
from City Lights or something.
Preston
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:51:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: NICO 88 <NICO88@aol.com>
Subject: Re: First Exposures
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
ciao a tutti.
um.... so, my
first exposure to "the beats" occured about 3 years ago, in the
winter/spring of
8th grade. i was heavily into Jim Carroll, reading his poetry
and the B-ball
diaries about the same time as the movie came out. (blah.) i
dont know whether
it was in the books themselves, or interviews with JC, but i
kept hearing
about this group of people/writers/poets/musicians who, it
seemed,
influenced quite a number of people.
after a conversation with my dad
about it, he
unearthed his old copy of The Portable Beat Reader from the
storage room and
lent it to me. I learned that Allen Ginsberg
had an office
in my dad's
building in union square; and that June we saw him in the elevator
one day. i was too shy to initiate any conversation
myself, but my dad
started talking
to him about something or other, about how i was really into
his work, and how
i discovered him through Jim Carroll, et cetera. so i
started talking
with Allen in the elevator about The Basketball Diaries, about
discrepancies
between the book and the movie and whatnot. (Allen started
talking about
this one scene where Jim is hustling in the bathroom of the 34th
street train
station and how in the movie they make it seem as if he is hating
it and how in
real life he was kind of enjoying it and blah blah blah and my
father still
talks to this day about how inappropriate he felt this
conversation was,
how "just because he's Allen Ginsberg he can converse with
my 13 year old
daughter about such things." i dont know what the logic was
there, on my
fathers part; i mean i'd already read the book twice anyhow.)
Anyhow, we asked
Allen if he would be reading anywhere soon, and he told us
about the Kerouac
symposium that was going on at NYU the following week,
culminating in a
big deal show at Town Hall with Allen, Ferlinghetti, Corso,
DiPrima, Sanders,
Waldman, Amram, Bremser, Lee Ranaldo and more.
I ended up
going to this
Town Hall event; it was, of course, quite a fitting introduction
to the entire
Beat Generation, for a kid of 13.
Yup, that was my first Allen Ginsberg
story. :)
-- Ginny.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:52:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: NICO 88 <NICO88@aol.com>
Subject: Re: "Wake Up"
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 98-03-16 09:26:03 EST, you write:
> you can
purchase back copies of Tricycle magazine...in which "wake up"
> appeared.
go into a bookstore and look at a tricycle magazine and there
> should be a order form or a phone number
where you can call and order which
> ever back copies you desire.
> good luck
> john j dorfner
>
yes, also, on
their website you can survey all back issues, the titles of all
articles,
etc. or, call them at 1 800 950 7008.
-- Ginny.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
x-sender: morocco@pop.walrus.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:31:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@walrus.com>
Subject: Fwd: Review of Ron Whitehead CD
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Here's a review
written by Paul McDonald.
--Gregory
------------Begin
forwarded message------------------------
Date: Mar. 16, 1998
From: Paul McDonald
To: The Bohemian Mailing List
REVIEW OF
"TAPPING MY OWN PHONE"
by
Paul McDonald
Ron Whitehead
does not sleep. Anyone who has known the
Louisville,
Kentucky Poet or had any contact with him over
the last seven
years knows this, and instead of beating his
chest bloody and
whinning about it, he celebrated his lack
of sleep with
over 300 INSOMNIACATHONS, or marathon poetry
readings, that
lasted 24, 36, 48, even 72 hours in places as
diverse as New
York University, The Eisenhower Center at the
University of New
Orleans, and the Meer dan Woorden Festival
in the
Netherlands.
When that wasn't
enough to keep him occupied he decided to
try his hand at
publishing, putting out rare viable poetic
copy not only of
the Louisville Community, but of cutting
edge authors from
all walks of life: Professors, like
Douglas
Brinkley, author
of "The Majic Bus." Spiritual
Icons, like
the Dali Lama and
Thomas Merton. Nobel Laureates like
Seamus
Heaney and
politicians like President Jimmy Carter.
This past winter,
it looked as if Ron Whitehead would finally
get a decent
nights sleep as he quit his teaching job, unplugged
his phone, turned
off his computer, gathered his family around
him, and began,
"...to go underground."
Yet, Whitehead
still refuses to acknowledge the duality of
consciousness,
and so his dreams have merged with the waking
state. This usually results in madness. But Whitehead
ascribes to the
philosophy put forth by Salavor Dali:
"The only difference
between me and a madman
is that I am not
insane..."
So even in the
seemingly secure environment of home and hearth,
Ron Whitehead has
managed to articulate his dreams in a new
spoken word CD
entitled "Tapping My Own Phone..."
Allen Ginsberg
once called Ron Whitehead an energetic poetic
Bodhisattva. The title piece delves into the price one
must
pay to maintiain
those Bodhisattvic Vows:
"every time I hear an
airplane or helicopter
or car door slam I know The
Secret Service the FBI
and the IRS Swat Teams have
finally arrived
cause I published a poem by the
President of
The United States of America
without his
fully conscious permission...
...so yes I've become a little
jumpy
but I'm staying one step ahead
tapping my
own phone videotaping my every move
watching myself day and night
replaying
the tapes cause I got a bad bad
bad case
of the deep fear paranoia
anxiety despair
and suicide blues..."
It is no secret
that Ron Whitehead has a love for the Beat
Generation. Three
poems are homages to that movement. "San
Francisco,
1993" is about his visit to writer Lawrence
Ferlinghetti; "Calling The Toads" about his
association with
the late William
S. Burroughs; and "Asheville" a stream of
consciousness ode
originally written in 1994 and revised upon
the death of
Allen Ginsberg. The Beat influence is most
noticeable in
"GIMME BACK MY WIG: The Hound Dog Taylor Blues"
(written after
officiating at a basketball game where a
spectator who
didn't like Whitehead's calls or the length
of his hair
attempted to rip his head off), "Shithouse
Manifesto,"
and "Without Blinking." But
even in those works
the influence is
secondary. Most of the poems are drawn
directly from the
experience of living in Kentucky. The most
riveting being
"Jasper Joyce" written about his grandfather,
a coalminer and
Pentacostal Holy Roller Snake Handler. In
this piece
Whitehead probes the fear and wonder a child feels
upon seeing his
grandfather speak in tongues and take up serpents.
Whitehead begins
the CD with the poem "The Bone Man," a solemn
shamanic
invocation, and then, with each succeeding piece,
shifts into a
high-powered throttle of bardic recitative,
drawing the
listener deep into the poetic experience.
The intesity and
energy vary enough to keep the listener
intrigued. Not only do these works soar like an Amiri
Baraka Rant, they
can take on a Zen-like subtlety most
evident in the
works "Netherlands," "You Grow Wild In My
Heart," and
"Listen."
The CD comes full
circle from the beginning strains of fear
and paranoia to
the resolute conviction of "I Will Not Bow
Down/Pledge of
Allegiance":
"I will not Bow Down America
I will not Bow Down
to your Government
to your Religion...
I will not Bow Down America
to your invasion of
privacy
to your moral
absolutes...
to your Assassins...
to your attempt to make
me the model citizen
of Your State of
Your Church...
"America
I pledge allegiance
to the woman I love
and to our children...
to my friends and allies
my guides and angels
both seen and unseen...
I pledge alligence to
Resurrection of the
Heart..."
"Tapping My
Own Phone" is an important audio document of a
restless poet who
will not sleep and who will not be silenced.
It can be ordered
directly through the publisher Ring Tarigh,
P.O. Box 1345
Westerly, RI 02891, email -
hasan@riconnect.com;
or through AK
Press Distribution, P.O. Box 40682,
San Francisco,
CA 94140-0682, phone - 415-864-0892,
FAX -
415-864-0893, email - akpress@org.org,
http://db.akpress.org/capps/mall/index.cfm
-----------------End
forwarded message-------------------------------
+ + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Gregory
Severance morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/ <<BULLDOG BREATH>>
"I remember
with particular amusement,
people with three-cornered hats fishing
in the dawn." -- Richard Brautigan
TROUT FISHING IN AMERICA
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
caspers@pop3.worldonline.nl (Unverified)
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:35:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: paul caspers <caspers@worldonline.nl>
Subject: kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
howdy
a mate wants to
have the entire text + title of the following kerouac poem
for his
girlfriend. please help him out if you know anything!!
>It starts off
>
>>I've been
doing this all my life
>>Going
after people who interest me
>>Because
the only people for me are the mad ones
>>The ones
who are mad to live,mad to talk
>
>Now the rest
is a bit sketchy but mentions roman candles exploding like
>stars....
thanx
paul
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:25:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@aol.com>
Subject: Re: kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
this
"poem" is actually an excerpt from kerouac's on the road. well, on
seond
thought, it might
have been taken out as a poem, i think i came across a
version of it
once. anyway, it was titled "bohemian". i don't have that with
me now, so i'm
sending the prose version. maybe someone else will have it in
poetry. ps - if
my boyfriend gave this to me i'd think he was tres lame. using
your own stuff is
so much better. he seems like someone just eager to impress
for the sole
purpose of scoring. though you may say otherwise, it won't change
my impression of
him. anyway, it goes:
But then they
danced down the street like dingledodies, and I shambled after
as I've been
doing all my life after people who interest me, because the only
people for me are
the mad ones, the ones who are madto live, mad to talk, mad
to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn
or say a
commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman
candles exploding
like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the
blue centerlight
pop and everybody goes "Awww!"
chillin,
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:27:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jack Foley <JFOLEY@crs.loc.gov>
Subject: kerouac -Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
It might be a
poem, but I believe it's also prose in On the Road, either near
the beginning or
at the end.
-- Jack Foley
>>> paul
caspers <caspers@worldonline.nl> 03/17/98 04:35pm >>>
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
howdy
a mate wants to
have the entire text + title of the following kerouac poem
for his
girlfriend. please help him out if you know anything!!
>It starts off
>
>>I've been
doing this all my life
>>Going
after people who interest me
>>Because
the only people for me are the mad ones
>>The ones
who are mad to live,mad to talk
>
>Now the rest
is a bit sketchy but mentions roman candles exploding like
>stars....
thanx
paul
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:28:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
This is from On
The Road. Unfortunately, I lost my copy (!), so I cant tell
you what page its
on but its in there somewhere. Its one of my favorite
lines in the
whole book.
~Nancy
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:29:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Re: kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
It's not a poem,
but an oft-quoted line from early in ON THE ROAD, describing
the immediate
kinship between Neal Cassady and Allen Ginsberg. Following a
preface by jack
where he writes "From that moment on I saw very little of
Dean, and I was a
little sorry too. Their energies met head-on; I was a lout
compared, I
couldn't keep up with them," a few
lines later he writes:
They rushed down
the street together, digging everything in the early way they
had, which later
became so much sadder and perceptive and blank. But then they
danced down the
street like dingledodies, and I shambled after as I've been
doing all my life
after people who interest me, because the only people for me
are the mad ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved,
desirous of
everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a
commonplace
thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles
exploding like
spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue
centerlight pop
and everybody goes "Awww!"
=======================
The entire
passage is on pages 8 and 9 of both my editions of ON THE ROAD.
Easy to find,
hard to forget.
Diane
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
logovo@mail.tij.cetys.mx
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:30:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Liliana Gil Valdivia
<logovo@tij.cetys.mx>
Subject: Re: kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Paul,
Its from the
beginning of "On the Road" when Sal recalls Carlo and Dean
meeting. Its the
passage that everyone seems points to when discussing OtR.
"They rushed
the streets together, digging everything in the early way they
had, which later
became so much sadder and perceptive and blank. But then
they danced down
the streets like dingledodies, and I shambled after as I've
been doing all my
life after people who interest me, because the only people
for me are the
mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to
be saved, desirous
of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn
or say a
commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman
candles exploding
like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see
the blue
centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!"
That bit you
quoted if I'm not mistaken was used in a Volvo commercial
something over a
year ago. Always strange to see something like that.
Expecting now to
hear "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
madness" to
openning a spot for Surge or maybe Microsoft.
saludos,
-liliana
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:30:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Paul Caspers
wrote:
> a mate wants
to have the entire text + title of the following kerouac
poem
> for his
girlfriend. please help him out if you know anything!!
>
> >It
starts off
> >
> >>I've
been doing this all my life
>
>>Going after people who interest me
>
>>Because the only people for me are the mad ones
> >>The
ones who are mad to live,mad to talk
> >
> >Now the
rest is a bit sketchy but mentions roman candles exploding like
>
>stars....
This is not a
poem, it is an excerpt from Kerouac's novel "On The Road."
It's on the
fourth or fifth page or so. Also
available in the section
reprinted in
"The Portable Beat Reader."
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:33:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@aol.com>
Subject: Re: kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Paul,
This is the most
famous Kerouac line that there is. It's
from the first eight
or ten pages of
On The Road. It starts off, "The
only people for me are the
mad ones, the
ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous
of everything at
the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace
thing, but burn,
burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like
spiders across
the stars..."
To the best of my
knowledge it does not exist as a poem or as a singlular
written document
outside of On The Road. We do sell
T-SHirts with this quote
on it. Check out our website at www.kerouac.com or
call 1-800-KER-OUAC.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City Facts
& Fiction
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:28:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@drc.com>
Subject: Jim Carroll
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Just want to
recommend Jim Carroll's poetry, his music too for that
matter. It
certainly sounds beat to me. Powerful stuff.
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:45:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Carefree/Carelessness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
towards the end
of 1 in OTR:
"Besides,
all my New York friends were in the negative nightmarish
position of
putting down society and giving their tired bookish or
political or
psychoanalytic reasons, but dead just raced in society,
eager for bread
and love; he didn't care one way or the other...."
Does this seem an
accurate view of Neal's social perspective?
Does Jack
jump on it b/c it
is easier for him to keep close to Neal's view than
the New York
friends? Does Neal's carefree attitude
turn into a
carelessness, and
why?
just some things
i'm wondering on a snowy afternoon in Kansas.
dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:56:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ZePhyra11 <ZePhyra11@aol.com>
Subject: kerouac newbie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i'm in my first
year of college, and have recently read "desolation angels."
it is the first
kerouac i've read (frankly, because i was looking for "on the
road" but it
was currently checked out). I loved
it. it had such an effect
on me that i'm
reading kerouac's poetry like crazy, and my boyfriend bought me
a copy of
"on the road" for my birthday, and i'm going to delve into that as
soon as i get a
chance. i guess my question is: what
other kerouac novels do
you guys recommend? i went to barnes and noble and have
discovered that there
are numerous
works by this great man.
--carly
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:57:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bryan Farrow
<bryan_farrow@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Carefree/Carelessness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
the relationship
between kerouac and cassidy seems to me one of
salvation. i just
had to read Boswell's Life of Johnson for an 18th c.
course, and it
that book the author just gives himself completely --
in a psychogenic,
religious, almost visceral way -- to Johnson. In The
Life, Johnson
serves as the introspective, contemplative body, and
Boswell its
foppish satellite. In OTR, Cassidy is the controlling
force, although a
frenzied, always-shifting one, and Kerouac his
attendant, though
more introspective and I think skeptical. Anyone
else, like me,
have a friend that sort of grounds you?
---David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net> wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> towards the
end of 1 in OTR:
>
"Besides, all my New York friends were in the negative nightmarish
> position of
putting down society and giving their tired bookish or
> political or
psychoanalytic reasons, but dead just raced in society,
> eager for
bread and love; he didn't care one way or the other...."
>
> Does this
seem an accurate view of Neal's social perspective? Does
Jack
> jump on it
b/c it is easier for him to keep close to Neal's view than
> the New York
friends? Does Neal's carefree attitude
turn into a
>
carelessness, and why?
>
> just some
things i'm wondering on a snowy afternoon in Kansas.
>
> dbr
>
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:58:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Jim Carroll
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Ho yhea Jim
Carroll, hes definitely beat...i went to see him when i drovw up
to Michigan two
weeks ago...he was fantastic..!!!
Crystal
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:45:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Carefree/Carelessness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Bryan Farrow
wrote:
>
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> the
relationship between kerouac and cassidy seems to me one of
> salvation. i
just had to read Boswell's Life of Johnson for an 18th c.
> course, and
it that book the author just gives himself completely --
> in a
psychogenic, religious, almost visceral way -- to Johnson. In The
> Life,
Johnson serves as the introspective, contemplative body, and
> Boswell its
foppish satellite. In OTR, Cassidy is the controlling
> force,
although a frenzied, always-shifting one, and Kerouac his
> attendant,
though more introspective and I think skeptical. Anyone
> else, like
me, have a friend that sort of grounds you?
>
I'll pay
attention to this view some as i re-read but my impression is
that Jack and
Neal weren't grounding for each other. It seems that the
two together were
un-grounded energy ignoring or opposing all grounding
influences. It seems that they fed on each other's energy
but in the
direction of the
extreme. It seems they brought out the
wildest in the
other.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:46:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<sholland@iclub.org>
Organization:
Creeps Filmworks, 101 Center Court, Berea, KY 40403
Subject: bohemian mailing list
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Gregory Severance
wrote:
>
> To: The Bohemian Mailing List
=== What is this
Bohemian mailing list, and how do I get on it?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
jsh from ky
bored shirtless
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:47:28 EST
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Carefree/Carelessness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Does Neal's
carefree attitude turn into a
carelessness, and
why?
just some things
i'm wondering on a snowy afternoon in Kansas.
dbr
I think from the
descriptions we have that Neal wanted to live fast, die
young and leave a
preety corpse, as the saying goes. He
seems to have
succeeded in all
three pursuits. Bookish, essentially
introverted types
like Jack have
always been drawn to wild, raw, impulsive types like
Neal. If it hadn't been Neal, it would have been
someone else. Neal
was his muse and
he both aped and critiqued him. Trying
to keep up with
Neal probably
killed him too. He should have learned
from Neal's
example, but then
hindsight is twenty-twenty. Mark J
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:48:40 EST
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: kerouac newbie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
guess my question
is: what other kerouac novels do
you guys
recommend? i went to barnes and noble
and have discovered that
there
are numerous
works by this great man.
Mexico City Blues
for poetry plus Dream Book (he recorded his dreams)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:49:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@zip.com.au>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: [Fwd: kerouac newbie]
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Carly, hi...I personally recommend you read
all the "numerous works by
this great
man." To me
when someone gets
"hooked" on JK as you obviously have done it doesn't
matter where you
start
or where you end;
a good suggestion might be to read them in the order
they were
published
(that's what I
did...it made sense). Some will tell you this book is "a
must" or
"this one first" "no,
this one's
better" here, there, this, that...his in you now, girl, so I
say simply
start...you have, so
keep going.
Always merry and
bright.
Message-ID:
<3511F3F2.FD29FC1E@zip.com.au>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar
1998 15:43:30 +1100
From: Paul
Buckberry <buckb@zip.com.au>
Organization: Zip
Internet
X-Mozilla-Draft-Info:
internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0;
linewidth=0
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re:
kerouac newbie
References:
<f4bf29d0.3511a9e8@aol.com>
Content-Type:
text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
<x-html><HTML>
Carly,
hi...I personally recommend you read all the "numerous works
by this great
man." To me when someone gets "hooked" on JK as you obviously
have done it
doesn't matter where you start or where you end; a good suggestion
might be to read
them in the order they were published (that's what I did...it
made sense). Some
will tell you this book is "a must" or "this one first"
"no, this
one's better" here, there, this, that...his in you now, girl,
so I say simply
start...you have, so keep going.
<P>Always
merry and bright.
<BR>
<BR> </HTML>
</x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:56:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jjdorfner <Jjdorfner@aol.com>
Subject: Re: kerouac newbie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
carly...
Dr. Sax
Visions of Cody
Visions of Gerard
Book of Dreams
some great
books...by this great author.
welcome to the
club.
john j dorfner
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:57:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: kerouac newbie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
ZePhyra11 wrote:
>
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> i'm in my
first year of college, and have recently read "desolation angels."
> it is the
first kerouac i've read (frankly, because i was looking for "on the
> road"
but it was currently checked out). I
loved it. it had such an effect
> on me that
i'm reading kerouac's poetry like crazy, and my boyfriend bought me
> a copy of
"on the road" for my birthday, and i'm going to delve into that as
> soon as i
get a chance. i guess my question is:
what other kerouac novels do
> you guys
recommend? i went to barnes and noble
and have discovered that there
> are numerous
works by this great man.
>
> --carly
Vanity of Duluoz
is wonderful, i think, at looking back on youth.
Dharma Bums and
Big Sur are both really nice. The former
gives a
glimpse of Jack's
forays into Zen Buddhism and the latter some of his
difficulties with
alcoholism. But definitely read On the
Road.
dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cen00746@207.17.135.251
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:59:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mike rice
<cen00746@centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: Carefree/Carelessness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 07:57 PM
3/19/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>the
relationship between kerouac and cassidy seems to me one of
>salvation. i
just had to read Boswell's Life of Johnson for an 18th c.
>course, and
it that book the author just gives himself completely --
>in a
psychogenic, religious, almost visceral way -- to Johnson. In The
>Life, Johnson
serves as the introspective, contemplative body, and
>Boswell its
foppish satellite. In OTR, Cassidy is the controlling
>force,
although a frenzied, always-shifting one, and Kerouac his
>attendant,
though more introspective and I think skeptical. Anyone
>else, like
me, have a friend that sort of grounds you?
>
>
>
>---David
Bruce Rhaesa <race@midusa.net> wrote:
I have two great
friends who don't exactly ground me, its more like
they put the
brakes on me and I don't always appreciate it.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:00:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jack Foley <JFOLEY@crs.loc.gov>
Subject: The RIVAL Tradition in FlashPoint
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
ATTENTION: Lovers of Off-Beat,
Post-Beat, Avant-Pop!
RON SUKENICK
Author of UP, OUT, 98.6,
& BLOWN AWAY
discusses
the millenia-old alternative to
mainstream narrative
in
THE RIVAL TRADITION*
in
FLASHPOINT
(http://webdelsol.com/FLASHPOINT/)
"Along the frontier where the
arts & politics clash ..."
*(http://webdelsol.com/FLASHPOINT/sukeint1.htm)
Baraka
Brennan Brody Clark
Coe Eshleman Gould
Haas Hickman
Katz Parcelli
Scroggins Stuefloten VanderMeer
Wallace
Part of the literary arts
complex at
WEB DEL SOL
(http://www.webdelsol.com/)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:02:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jack Foley <JFOLEY@crs.loc.gov>
Subject: kerouac newbie -Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Kerouac's very
best, in my opinion, is Visions of Cody (but fair warning: there
are long, slow
stretches in the middle, esp. the tape recording; it's best in
the
last 150
pages). But I'm also partial to The
Subterraneans, The Dharma
Bums, Dr. Sax,
Tristessa, and Big Sur. Not a novel, but
very good are the
stories and
sketches in Lonesome Traveler. (After
two readings, I still don't
care much for
Maggie Cassidy. Kerouac never wrote an
uninteresting book,
though. After the best, try also Visions of Duluoz
and Satori in Paris.) And
there's even
more.
-- Jack Foley
>>>
ZePhyra11 <ZePhyra11@aol.com> 03/19/98 07:56pm >>>
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i'm in my first
year of college, and have recently read "desolation angels."
it is the first
kerouac i've read (frankly, because i was looking for "on the
road" but it
was currently checked out). I loved
it. it had such an effect
on me that i'm
reading kerouac's poetry like crazy, and my boyfriend bought
me
a copy of
"on the road" for my birthday, and i'm going to delve into that as
soon as i get a
chance. i guess my question is: what
other kerouac novels do
you guys
recommend? i went to barnes and noble
and have discovered that
there
are numerous
works by this great man.
--carly
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Content-Disposition:
inline
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:06:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jack Foley <JFOLEY@crs.loc.gov>
Subject: kerouac newbie -Reply
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Kerouac's very
best, in my opinion, is Visions of Cody (but fair warning: there
are long, slow
stretches in the middle, esp. the tape recording; it's best in
the
last 150
pages). But I'm also partial to The
Subterraneans, The Dharma
Bums, Dr. Sax,
Tristessa, and Big Sur. Not a novel, but
very good are the
stories and
sketches in Lonesome Traveler. (After
two readings, I still don't
care much for
Maggie Cassidy. Kerouac never wrote an
uninteresting book,
though. After the best, try also Visions of Duluoz
and Satori in Paris.) And
there's even
more.
-- Jack Foley
>>>
ZePhyra11 <ZePhyra11@aol.com> 03/19/98 07:56pm >>>
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i'm in my first
year of college, and have recently read "desolation angels."
it is the first
kerouac i've read (frankly, because i was looking for "on the
road" but it
was currently checked out). I loved
it. it had such an effect
on me that i'm
reading kerouac's poetry like crazy, and my boyfriend bought
me
a copy of
"on the road" for my birthday, and i'm going to delve into that as
soon as i get a
chance. i guess my question is: what
other kerouac novels do
you guys
recommend? i went to barnes and noble
and have discovered that
there
are numerous
works by this great man.
--carly
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:07:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Neglected Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm probably in
the minority when I say that I think one of Kerouac's
best and most
neglected novels is "The Town and The City." It's a big,
traditional,
Wolfean novel that Kerouac later disavowed for being too
"crafted." However, Kerouac wasn't always right. Despite its
conventional
style, TTATC contains the seeds of much of Kerouac's later
work. It's a good read.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:58:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Re: kerouac newbie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
For me, it seems
like I read Kerouac differently when I was very young than I
did when I logged
some years and experience under my belt. The first book I
read was ON THE
ROAD, and it was perfect for the Sixties, like a secret being
revealed, that
there had always been an undercurrent of madness, even in my
parents'
generation, but they tried to hide it. When my dad (always a step
behind the times)
called me a beatnik and threatened to throw me out of the
house, I just
laughed, until I read ON THE ROAD. Then I understood how
threatened he was
by my generation.
Last year I read
VISIONS OF GERARD again and was awestruck by it. It was the
second book I
read by Jack back in 1969. Then I re-read BIG SUR, another
favorite of mine,
and once again, fireworks went off.
Reading these two
back to back is a very interesting psychological study of
jack. Oddly
enough, these books have many common dovetails to one another.
"Gerard"
explains much of "Big Sur," and both books illustrate that spiritual
reaching out and
falling short that really defined his life.
As others have
said, all his books are worth reading. Some will speak to you
more than others.
But I'd say, try this juxtaposition, Gerard/Big Sur and see
how it feels.
Pretty rich stuff, I think.
Diane
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:59:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
Subject: happy happy joy joy
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
newbies are being
greeted and helped generously,
we are back
talking about the works themselves.
today i felt a
fresh breeze waft out of my computer as i fired up the
mailer.
peace everyone,
and to all the
workers of the list, have a great weekend.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:00:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Subject: Re: Neglected Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Bill:
This was probably
the LAST book by Kerouac that I read. I
fully agree with
you that it is
not given proper credit, even by fans.
While it is
derivative of
Wolfe, but what American writer since he was published does
not owe some debt
to Wolfe, it rings true with its own voice and shows the
seeds that Jack
was sowing to become the writer he was later.
On the other
hand, I can see how he would disavow it as it was a "flop"
commerically,
labelled his as a derivative writer and was so structured
when compared
with his other work. If you are a
Kerouac fan and have not
read this book,
you owe it to yourself to find a copy at your library.
Bill Gargan
wrote:
> I'm probably
in the minority when I say that I think one of Kerouac's
> best and
most neglected novels is "The Town and The City." It's a big,
> traditional,
Wolfean novel that Kerouac later disavowed for being too
>
"crafted." However, Kerouac
wasn't always right. Despite its
> conventional
style, TTATC contains the seeds of much of Kerouac's later
> work. It's a good read.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:01:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@aol.com>
Subject: book of dreams
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
yes, yes, yes! i
won't claim to have read everything kerouac ever published,
but of the things
that i have, this is by far my favorite. i don't know why i
love it, exactly.
i do know that i get a kick out of someone who tried to
record his
dreams. i remember reading somewhere about what he went through
trying to record
them. in fact, in might even have been in the preface.
whatever. it's a
sheer pleasure to read it. much more innovative and at the
same time
soothing than traditional (if his other work can be called that,
which i doubt)
beat lit. try it!
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:02:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Neglected Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i can't say if
town and the city is such a good read becuase i've never read
it. which, i
think, was bill's point. and i have to agree - i always seem to
exclude it when i
try to mentally list his work. it certainly doesn't pop into
my mind often.
does anyone else find that they forget it? it usually only
surfaces when
some cheeky (or, rarely, a sincerely curious) person tries to
pick my brain on
kerouac trivia and asks what his first novel was. i'll pick
it up over the
summer and let you all know what i think of it. i wish i didn't
have to wait that
long, but i gotta wait till school finishes before i'll have
time.
later,
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:03:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Ricard <bonmark@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Neglected Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I've read part of
Dharma Bums and On The Road and it's clear to me that
kerouac is
looking for a big brother. When I read about Cody dying at
ten these two
books made much more sense. Kerouac is looking for the
male role model
he lost in Cody. Any comments on this?
Mark
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:05:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff <jensm@moving-people.net>
Subject: book of dreams by burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
speaking of
dreams and beats... did anyone read "my education" by william
burroughs?
i read it
aproximately half a year after its release & only by then realized how
important dreams
have actually been for burroughs' writing, whether concerning
the style or the
contents. he had stated this fact in many interviews (for
example in
"with william burroughs" by victor bockris, a must-read for every
burroughsian
& warholian), but i didn't have much proof for this statement
untill
i read "my
education".
here's a few
sentences from the book which i underlined, because i thought
they'd
be most
interesting & important & true. please feel free to dicuss them.
"for years i
wondered why dreams are so often so dull when related and this
morning i find
the answer, which is very simple-like most answers, you have
always known it:
no context... [...] [conventional dreams] are as boring and as
commonplace as
the average dreamer. there is a special class of dreams, in my
experience, that
are not dreams at all but quite as real as so-called waking
life
[...] but, if one
can specify degrees of reality, more real by the impact of
unfamiliar
scenes, places, personnel, even odors."
"am i an
alien? alien from what exactly? perhaps my home is the dream city, more
real than my
so-called waking life, precisely because it has no relation to
waking
life."
"<dreams
mean nothing,> crick croaks, <just neural housecleaning. the quicker we
forget our dreams
the better.> he's telling me my dreams, where i get my best
sets and
characters, are meaningless. meaningless to whom, exactly? they can't
even think
straight. as if <meaning> floats about in a vacuum, with no relation
to time, place or
person."
and what about
burroughs statement that dreams (like cutups) can refer to future
events? has
anyone of you had any experiences with that? i don't want to turn
BEAT-L into
PSYCHOLOGY-L or PARANORMAL-L, but these topics are very important,
looking at the
beat's goal to change reality, find other realities in inner and
outer space.
jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:05:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Dream vs. Reality
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Towards the end
of 2 in OTR:
"'...If you
want to go to Chicago you'd do better going across the
Holland Tunnel in
New York and head for Pittsburgh,' and I knew he was
right. It was my dream that screwed up, the stupid
hearthside idea that
it would be
wonderful to follow one great red line across America
instead of trying
various roads and routes."
Jack's dream
shows itself "stupid" when faced with the realities of
weather and
traffic. Hitching isn't something that
can be planned out
over maps and
hearthside dreaminess. Does this
tendency of Jack to
think his way
away from reality show up in other significant places
we've read about
Jack? Can we identify with the feelings
of total
stupidity when
our dreaminess takes us away from the practical side of
living?
dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:07:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
Subject: beat-ls who were on my poetry list
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i nuked my
address book (one keyboard 2 phones, a vcr all in a month)
those of you who
were receiving my poems in a sublist, could you please send
me a 'test'
message? my mailer won't let me separate the beat list from the
sender.
anyone else is
welcome to do the same
thanks for the bandwidth,
bill. this will keep the flow more in the beat
list scope
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:08:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Xavier Anguera
<x.anguera@telematic.net>
Subject: Looking for K's Spanish translations
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
<x-html><html><head></head><BODY
bgcolor="#D8D0C8"><p><font size=2
color="#000000" face="Arial">Hi, friends!<br>I'm
looking for Kerouac's (and other Beats) books translated to Spanish. I'm not
able to read a complete book in literary style in English (I hope I'll be able
to do it soon), so I prefer translations. I could find only five Kerouac's
books in Spanish: OTR, The Subterraneans, Vissions of Cody, Dharma Bums and a
little anthology of his poetry. I know that other titles were published in
Spain years ago, but now it's impossible to find them. I wonder if other titles
are available in Mexican, Argentinian or another Spanish-speaking country
editions.<br><br>Can you help me? All friendly messages are
welcome. Thanks.<br><br>Xavier Anguera<br>mail:
x.anguera@telematic.net<br><br>**If anybody is interested in
Spanish (or Catalan) from Beat books (or about Beats), I can provide them with
a modest list of titles.</p>
</font></body></html></x-html>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
cake@ionline.net
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:09:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@ionline.net>
Subject: Re: Neglected Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 02:07 PM
3/20/1998 EST, Bill Gargan wrote:
>I'm probably
in the minority when I say that I think one of Kerouac's
>best and most
neglected novels is "The Town and The City." It's a big,
>traditional,
Wolfean novel that Kerouac later disavowed for being too
>"crafted." However, Kerouac wasn't always right. Despite its
>conventional
style, TTATC contains the seeds of much of Kerouac's later
>work. It's a good read.
It reminds me of
Wolfe's collection of short stories entitled
_From Death to Morning_. Especially the Time's Squarelo
(kitty stepped on
keyboard) narrative in the short story "Death
the Proud
Brother." I agree, this novel is
neglected.
Most people I
know have only read _OTR_ and
_DB_. They seem to stop reading K after these
two. I think
most people get
attracted to Kerouac due to the hype of these
novels and then
leave it at that. Their loss I guess. .
.
They sum up
Kerouac in these two works - a dreadful shame
indeed!!
Mike
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:10:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@aol.com>
Subject: carly
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
wow, that kinda
confused me--my name's carly too. any
how, i haven't read a
ton of kerouac,
yet. i'm just about to read desolation angels. so far i've
done on the road
and dharma bums. i'm going
chronologically, but skipping
visions of
cody. a lot of people would call me nuts
for doing that, but that
sucker's one
tough read. allan ginsberg actually
thought visions of cody was
much better than
on the road, so whadda you do? i
dunno. anyhow, from what
i've read so far,
dharma bums tops my list--it's more thoughtful and
discriptive than
on the road, and some would say that it definitely shows how
much his writing
style had matured. if you like jack's
poetry, i sincerely
urge you to pick
up some ginsberg stuff; there's a giant red book, call the
colleted works of
allan ginsberg, and that will pretty much have you
covered--out of
that (just for starters) i reccomend "transcription of organ
music,"
"please master," "sunflower sutra," "many loves," and of course,
"howl". i could go on, and on, but i'll leave you
with these--you'll find the
rest just
thumbing through.
--carly nicole
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:11:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Carefree/Carelessness
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
i didn't
particuarly think sal was sceptical of dean until the end of the
book. granted, we are skeptical of dean throughout
since kerouac, himself,
was already
dissillusioned with dean when he began writing the book. sal, as
a character,
though, had to go through the motions of the narrative before
arriving at this
point.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:50:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: carly
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Damn straight
Carly,
That thought
crosses my cerebelllum everytime i read a letter talking about
kerouac on this
list....Which in fact, Jack is really great...but my true
love, is
definitely Allen Ginsberg...he remains the best poet ever in my
soul...and always
will be.....i have everything he has ever written...and
everytime i do
performance poetry..iam inspired by him and have the passion to
execute the
spoken word with stellar magnificence.....allen is one of the most
daring and
controversial poets ever...who i guess doesn't get much play
anywhere i have
seen.....i have yet to find that perfect allen ginsberg dharma
lion head bastard
with an exaggerated large male [ha!]organ whom ill surely
have "golden
copulations" with on the streets of my windy city...Carly you
should also check
out his poems illuminated they are also orgasmic...
see you later
hon,
Love Meth
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
hemorin@pop3.ibm.net
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:51:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: henry <OldScratch@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Dream vs. Reality
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 11:05 AM
3/21/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>Towards the
end of 2 in OTR:
>
>"'...If
you want to go to Chicago you'd do better going across the
>Holland
Tunnel in New York and head for Pittsburgh,' and I knew he was
>right. It was my dream that screwed up, the stupid
hearthside idea that
>it would be
wonderful to follow one great red line across America
>instead of
trying various roads and routes."
>
>Jack's dream
shows itself "stupid" when faced with the realities of
>weather and
traffic. Hitching isn't something that
can be planned out
>over maps and
hearthside dreaminess. Does this tendency
of Jack to
>think his way
away from reality show up in other significant places
>we've read
about Jack? Can we identify with the
feelings of total
>stupidity
when our dreaminess takes us away from the practical side of
>living?
>
>dbr
>
>you have to
remember when Jack did it threr where no interstate hi-way
system as we no
it today,having hitchhiked across the country twice
myself,once in 68
and again in 71
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:53:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: book of dreams by burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
have you read
Yage Letters by allen ginsberg and Burroughs???
meth
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:53:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sedington <Sedington@aol.com>
Subject: Neglected Kerouac/Brother
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
On
"Neglected Kerouac":
It seems like I
read somewhere [Sorry, I'm always saying that since I tend not
to remember what
I read where unless I write it down] that Kerouac attached
some mystical
significance to the fact the Neal Cassady was born in the same
year that Gerard
died--1926--as a replacement to the lost Gerard.
Jack actually
lost a "brother" a second time with the death of Sebastian
"Sammy"
Sampas at Anzio in 1944. He closed some of his letters to Sammy with
"Your
brother, Jean" (See the "Selected Letters").
Kerouac also took
to the road for the first time shortly after the death of
his father. I
wonder if the search for "old Dean Moriarty" (OTR) had an
element of JK
also wanting to recover in some way his own lost father?
S'long--Steve E.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:54:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Subject: dreams
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
David:
In your post on
dreams, you said:
> and what
about burroughs statement that dreams (like cutups) can refer to
future
> events? has
anyone of you had any experiences with that?
>
And in truth, on
Thursday night, while sleeping at a friends house, I
had a dream about
a friend of mine falling and hitting his head.
I woke
and remembered
the dream. I got up and forgot that I
was in the corner
of an attic room
with a sloped ceiling. Of course, I hit
my head. The
dream immediately
flashed through my mind. Maybe not earth
shaking, but
I had thought
about posting that to the list because of my interest in
dreams. So, there you go and it was a few hours
before the reality. I
thought it was
strange, and wondered how often that happens and we don't
remember.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:55:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for K's Spanish translations
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 11:08 AM
3/21/98 EST, you wrote:
>Hi, friends!
>I'm looking
for Kerouac's (and other Beats) books translated to Spanish.
>I'm not able
to read a complete book in literary style in English (I hope
>I'll be able
to do it soon), so I prefer translations. I could find only
>five
Kerouac's books in Spanish: OTR, The Subterraneans, Vissions of Cody,
>Dharma Bums
and a little anthology of his poetry. I know that other titles
>were
published in Spain years ago, but now it's impossible to find them. I
>wonder if
other titles are available in Mexican, Argentinian or another
>Spanish-speaking
country editions.
>
>Can you help
me? All friendly messages are welcome. Thanks.
>
>Xavier
Anguera
>mail:
x.anguera@telematic.net
Hi, Xavier, March 21, 1998
You can find my biography of Kerouac,
MEMORY BABE, in a fine
translation from
Circe Ediciones in Barcelona. If you
need the address, let
me know.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:56:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Koch
<jenskoch@post1.tele.dk>
Subject: SV: Burroughs Seen At Blockbuster!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I actually saw
this movie in a small theatre at Danish film festival last week. It is
hilarously funny at times, although I would advise viewers not to watch the
surgeon segment on an empty stomach...
You'll never
spend 43.50 wiser ...
Jens
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Greetings!
Hello
everyone. I was in the "special
interest" section of the
blockbuster movie
store the other day and saw a Burroughs movie.
I
think it was
called "The Burroughs Story" or "The Burroughs Files" or
something like
that. It had a picture of Burroughs on
the back in a
surgeon's outfit
with blood all over him. Does anyone
know about this?
Is it worth the
$3.50? (stupid question, I know)
Thanks,
Chris
--
"~God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
neverlived and
neverdied. That we should only learn it now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it is
already done, there's no more to do."
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
ninmar@pop.mindspring.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:44:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: book of dreams by burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 02:53 PM
3/21/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>
>
>have you read
Yage Letters by allen ginsberg and Burroughs???
>
>meth
yes...MarkJ
>
"If it ain't
broke, don't fix it." (anon)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:45:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Dream vs. Reality
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
yes, definitely.
for better or worse, i live my life like that, more or less.
i hate being
practical and i always let me fantastical notions lead me astray.
truly, i always
seem to know in the deep recess of my mind that it won't work
out, but i do it
anyway. and i think jack was like that too. not so much in
his books, but
more in his life. just from reading his biographies and other
profiles you can
infer that although he was emotionally led, he usually had a
sense of realism
to his actions.
aeronwy
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:51:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@cwis.unomaha.edu>
Subject: Kerouac and Time
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Please pardon me
if anyone has already called attention to this; I've been
gone for about 3
weeks and had my beat-l stopped.
1) In _Time_
magazine, 2 March 1998, the following short piece appeared:
GOOD, AL, BUT
THAT'S WITH A W. Everyone knows Allen Ginsberg was a great
poet. Did he also
have ESP? Here is a poem he wrote in 1949:
Sweet Levinsky in
the night
Sweet Levinsky in
the light
do you giggle out
of spite,
or are you
laughing in delight
Sweet Levinsky,
sweet Levinsky
In other lines,
Ginsberg asks if Levinsky trembles when the cock crows and
employs such
words as _Dissemble_, _tearful_ and _fearful_. The Levinsky
in the poem is
actually Leon Levinsky, a relatively minor character in
Jack Kerouac's
first novel, _The Town and the City_.
(p. 19)
[Is anyone else
out there as surprised as I am to find _Time_ asserting
without quibble
that Ginsberg "was a great poet"?]
2) The Ginsberg
piece appears right across the page from an article with a
section about
"William Seward." (p.18)
3) In a review of
Russell Banks's new novel _Cloudsplitter_, the reviewer,
John Skow,
provides a brief biography of Banks and comments, "Before this,
at 16, he had
stolen a car and Kerouacked off to California." (p. 76) This
occurs in the
very same issue of _Time_.
Aside from the
fact that such behavior sounds more like Cassady than
Kerouac, we are
left with a crucial question:
Is _Time_ beat?
Cordially,
Mike Skau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding
line at
buffnet9.buffnet.net
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:53:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Neglected Kerouac
Comments: cc:
WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> I'm probably
in the minority when I say that I think one of Kerouac's
> best and
most neglected novels is "The Town and The City." It's a big,
I personally love TTATC. It gives us great insite into the heart and
mind
of Jack.
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
["They that
can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
[ safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
[
-- Benjamin Franklin
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
ninmar@pop.mindspring.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:53:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Time
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 11:51 AM
3/22/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>Please pardon
me if anyone has already called attention to this; I've been
>gone for
about 3 weeks and had my beat-l stopped.
>1) In _Time_
magazine, 2 March 1998, the following short piece appeared:
>GOOD, AL, BUT
THAT'S WITH A W. Everyone knows Allen Ginsberg was a great
>poet. Did he
also have ESP? Here is a poem he wrote in 1949:
>Sweet
Levinsky in the night
>Sweet
Levinsky in the light
>do you giggle
out of spite,
>or are you
laughing in delight
>Sweet
Levinsky, sweet Levinsky
>In other
lines, Ginsberg asks if Levinsky trembles when the cock crows and
>employs such
words as _Dissemble_, _tearful_ and _fearful_. The Levinsky
>in the poem
is actually Leon Levinsky, a relatively minor character in
>Jack
Kerouac's first novel, _The Town and the City_.
>(p. 19)
>[Is anyone
else out there as surprised as I am to find _Time_ asserting
>without
quibble that Ginsberg "was a great poet"?]
>2) The
Ginsberg piece appears right across the page from an article with a
>section about
"William Seward." (p.18)
>3) In a
review of Russell Banks's new novel _Cloudsplitter_, the reviewer,
>John Skow,
provides a brief biography of Banks and comments, "Before this,
>at 16, he had
stolen a car and Kerouacked off to California." (p. 76) This
>occurs in the
very same issue of _Time_.
>Aside from
the fact that such behavior sounds more like Cassady than
>Kerouac, we
are left with a crucial question:
>Is _Time_
beat?
>Cordially,
>Mike Skau
>
Remember the old
quiz show, Beat the Clock? I rest my
case... Mark J
"If it ain't
broke, don't fix it." (anon)
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:54:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Neglected Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
hey. i agree with you on the brother role model
theory, but "cody" is neal
cassady. jack's brother who died, was gerald. maybe you already knew this
and your fingers
just slipped.
--carly nicole
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:55:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@aol.com>
Subject: Amerika, Amerika
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
does anyone have
any suggestions as to why the speaker of Amerika identifies
himself as
catholic, when ginsberg himself was jewish, and not much into
fictional poetry?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:00:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@admin.con2.com>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 10:37 AM
3/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello to
everyone on the Beat-List! March 7,
1998
> I am almost finished reading SOME OF
THE DHARMA, and I'm deeply
>troubled by
the negativity toward women, children, marriage, and life
>itself. There has been a lot of hype of this book as
a great modern
>interpretation
of Buddhism, but I don't know any Buddhists who take such a
>cynical view
of procreation, raising children, etc.
Kerouac advocates that
>people stop
having children, and snidely quips that "pretty girls make
>graves." Obviously this was stuff he deeply felt,
though it's hard to say
>how much of
it might have been from alcoholic depression.
This philosophy
>dictated much
of his life, the way he avoided relationships with women
>(other than
his mother), disowned his daughter, and looked for sex from
>other men,
where there was no "danger" of creating children or a lasting
>partnership.
> As I read the book, I kept getting this
vision: what if, say,
>Kerouac had
given up Buddhism in 1956, when he met Helen Weaver? This
>beautiful,
outgoing brunette also had a mind the equal of his own--she later
>became famous
for her translations of Artaud and other French writers. He
>describes
their affair in Desolation Angels, where he calls her Ruth
>Heaper--he
obviously loved her, and used to refer to her "belly of wheat,"
>quoting the
Song of Solomon. But instead of
cementing a relationship with
>her, he'd
disappear for four or five nights on a wild drunken binge,
>spoiling all
her plans and leaving her in tears, till finally her therapist
>told her to
break it off. And then, if you remember
the scene in Desolation
>Angels, Jack
storms into her apartment and accuses her of letting her
>therapist
ruin their relationship!
> What if, instead, Jack gave up his
particular negative Buddhist
>philosophy at
that point? What if he tried to give up
booze, developed a
>stable match
with Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958? He'd be
>celebrating
his 40th wedding anniversary now, a robust and hale 76 years
>old, with
another 30 or so books added to his canon.
And maybe, in this
>scenario, he
would also have developed a decent relationship with his
>daughter Jan,
and encouraged her to take care of her own health problems
>(including a
blood disease she inherited from him), so that she didn't end
>up
self-destructing as well at age 44.
Maybe Jan, now 46, would be showing
>up at his
wedding anniversary with a few of her own kids, his grandchildren.
> A crazy fantasy? Maybe.
But think how much less suffering there
>would have
been in that case. And aren't Buddhists
supposed to be
>"suppressing"
suffering, not adding to it?
> I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
one.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>
>
Dear Gerry - I'm
glad that you posted this message and although I am a
little late in
responding to it, I would like to because of my own interest
in Kerouac's
work. Like many people on the list, I have taken away a great
deal from JK's
work, but I cannot say that I the "what if" exercise very
productive or
fulfilling. Let me explain why...
As a lover of
literature, a writer and a teacher myself, I have devoted a
good deal of time
to reading the work of authors I love and reflecting on
the issues that
their work raises. However, if I wanted to start the "what
if" game and
begin to ask that writers conform to MY ideal of what a
productive life
would be, then I am overstepping my bounds. I could start
postulating
"what ifs" with any number of writers-- for example, what if
Pound had not
been an anti-Semite who propounded lunatic economic theories?
What if DeQuincey
hadn't "wasted" his life as an opium addict? What if
Dostoyevsky had
not been an alcolholic and a chronic gambler? What if Joyce
had been a
"good" Catholic instead of the unruly malcontent that the Church
considers him to
be? What if Mailer had never tried to "rehabilitate" Jack
Henry Abbot? What
if all the writers who behaved in a self-destructive,
cruel or
irrational manner had behaved better?
Well, there is an
answer to all these hypothetical questions, but not one
that you might
approve of, Gerry. The truth is that a writer's life and how
"well"
he or she has lived it, is NOT the business of his biographer or his
critics. A writer
WRITES -- regardless of what detours, mishaps, bad
decisions and
fuckups might be part of his life. My interest, as a teacher,
scholar and
writer is not to moralize about how much suffering MIGHT have
been avoided if
all these men and women had just acted more in their own
self-interest.
Yes, Gerry, they might have lived longer, produced more
books, and been
happier--but I say only MAYBE. The fact is, if they had done
the "common
sense" thing, then they'd be living YOUR life, Gerry -- not
THEIR OWN. There
is a connection between a writer's life and what he or she
writes. The hell,
suffering and personal degradation that writers inflict on
themselves and
those around them are often the price that must be paid if
these these works of art are ever going to come
into being. You cannot
"clean
up," denude, rectify, corrcet, reprogram or twist the lives of these
people into a
position where they lose whatever it is that made them so
unique. People
who think that way, Gerry, forget that a writer's life IS his
art, and to
lament the bad choices that this author or that made (and no one
is really denying
that some of these choices WERE extremely stupid and
ill-conceived)
well, what of it? What about the millions of people with NO
talent who manage
to fuck up their own lives and the lives of those around
them? Why pick on
a writer whose life is already over? Sorry, but while I
admire the work
you have done in this area, Gerry, I think this is the wrong
approach to take
on any writer, especially one whose personal life was as
chaotic and
disaster-ridden as Keroauc's. Even the most "normal" and
"well-adjusted"
author's life would have a hard time standing up to
second-guessing
like that, and keep in mind that we are talking about a life
that has already
been lived. Truth is, you may be doing Keroauc's image more
harm than good by
lamenting how many mistakes he made, because it encourages
people to focus
on the sensationalistic and lurid aspects of JK's life
(there were many)
instead of on the writing, a fact which Kerouac himself
was always
complaining about. Only in recent times have we seen the
emergence of
serious-minded and objective evaluation of JK's (and other Beat
authors) work, as
an anodyne to the simplistic moralizing that was a
constant thorn in
the side of people like Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs.
There are enough
moralists, sob-sisters and second-guessers around who hate
the Beats and use
their questionable actions as an entering wedge for
"criticism"
that is nothing more than thinly veiled disgust--why do you
think we need to
help these characters along?
The writing
endures--after that, everything else--moral condemnation,
second-guessing,
20-2o hindsight, simplistic and reductive "solutions" to
so-called
"social deviance" -- all this is largely irrelevant.
Thanks for taking
the time to listen. Looking forward to your reply.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Info: Visit the
Internet Cafe On-Line at http://www.bigmagic.com.
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:04:07 EST
Reply-To: blackj@bigmagic.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@bigmagic.com>
Subject: SOS
Comments: cc:
bigchief@bigmagic.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
need a website
bulletin board for allen ginsberg tribute june 12.
arthur perley
volunteere to help but wants me to work on elaborate thing
like my own
column. now too jammed up to do so. he also wants chat
room. all i need
is bulletin board for postings from cfommittee members
who say they're
coming and also any thng from anybody else who wants to
post message re:
the tribute. frank beacham volunteered
to help but i
asked him and he
says he doesn't know exactly how to do it.
can levi
and attila
help? i'm just too swamped. i already got a lot of email
that ought to be
posted. my own column is too slow,
coming out every
month. maybe bill gargan, who runs the beat-l list
can give some advice
on how to work it
out. --al
--
***************************************
Al Aronowitz THE
BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:05:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tcsorensen <Tcsorensen@aol.com>
Subject: Catch Phrase?..
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I am looking for
the impossible. I am doing an oral
report on the beat
writers and I
desire an brief eloquent summary of the spirit of these American
icons. Does any body out there have it wasting away
in the brain? Let me
quote you in the
report, you will be credited of course... anybody?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:06:05 EST
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@ehc.edu>
Subject: Neglected Kerouac
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Hello.
In many ways, I
believe Kerouac substituted Neal for Gerard.
I believe
that Kerouac even
comes out and states this in many of his novels. At
the very least,
one can say the quest for masculinity was certainly atop
the list of
perplexities. To quote lengthly from one
of my favorite
parts of
Desolation Angels:
Nothing could
stop me from writing big books of prose and poetry for
nothing, that is,
with no hope of ever having them published -- I was
simply writing
them because I was an "Idealist" and believed in "Life"
and was going
about justifying it with my earnest scriblings --
Strangely enough,
thest scribblings were the first of their kind in the
world, I was
originating (without knowing it, you say?) a new way of
writing about
life, no fiction, no craft, no revising afterthoughts, the
heartbreaking
discipline of the veritable fire ordeal where you cant go
back but have
made the vow of "speak now or forever hold your tongue"
and all of it
innocent go-ahead confession, the dicipline of making the
mind the slave of
the tongue with no chance to lie or re-elaborate (in
keeping not only
with the dictums of Dichtung Warheit Goethe but those
of the Catholic
Church my childhood)-- I wrote those manuscripts as I'm
writing this one
in cheap nickel notebooks by candlelight in poverty and
fame --
<italics>Fame</italics> of self -- For I was Ti Jean, and the
difficulty in
explaining all this and "Ti Jean" too is that readers who
havent read up to
this point in the earlier works are not filled in on
the background --
the background being my brother Gerard who said things
to me before he
died, though I don't remember a word, maybe I do
remember a few (I
was only four) -- But said things to me about a
<i>reverence</i>
for life, no, at least a reverence for the <i>idea</i>
of life, which I
translated as meaning that life itself is the Holy
Ghost --
That we all wander thru flesh, while
the dove cries for us, back to the
Dove of Heaven --
So I was writing to honor that, and had
friends like Irwin [GINSBERG]
Garden and Cody
[CASSIDY] Pomeray who said I was doing okay and
encouraged me....
end quote
It freaks me out
that I can cite Kerouac without thinking... perhaps
only because most
of it makes "sense". To me,
this means that Jack saw
Neal as his
brother re-incarnate (I believe he says this in Visions of
Cody) and if I
may go out on a limb, that he saw Ginsberg as a father
figure in MANY
aspects.
I don't see the
neal connection being contested, but I'd like to know
what you folks
think about what I had to say about Ginsberg.
Chris
--
"~God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
neverlived and
neverdied. That we should only learn it now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it is
already done, there's no more to do."
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:07:33 EST
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@ehc.edu>
Subject: Re: a bunch of stuff
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Sorry not to have
included this in my previous mailing.
The shift to a
moderated list has been astounding -- cheers Bill!
On Kerouac's
trail... hitchhiking or whatever -- The Interstate system
was
underconstruction DURING Jack's travels.
It's my understanding that
he followed Rt 6
across most of America. I wouldn't
consider this an
"innerstate"
but you can follow it (pulling this out of my ass) I
believe from
Pennsylvania across most of the nation.
Secondly... I
WOULD NEVER call Jack and Neal's relationship a grounding
relationship by
any streach of the imagination!!!
---more like those
pendulum balls
which just keep clicking against each other in nearly
perpetual
motion. I think Jack realized the true
nature of their
relationship (not
that I pretend to) and saw what Neal was at one level,
but idealized him
on another. I also wouldn't blame Neal
for the way
Jack's life
went. They were very different people as
far as I'm
concerned. By the time Neal died, Jack already had
screwed his body up
so badly, there
wasn't much hope. Jack was already dead
as far as I'm
concerned.
Bye
Chris
--
"~God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
neverlived and
neverdied. That we should only learn it now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it is
already done, there's no more to do."
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:09:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Jeffrey Perchuk
wrote:
> >
>
> Dear Gerry -
I'm glad that you posted this message and although I am a
> little late
in responding to it, I would like to because of my own interest
> in Kerouac's
work. Like many people on the list, I have taken away a great
> deal from
JK's work, but I cannot say that I the "what if" exercise very
> productive
or fulfilling. Let me explain why...
>
> As a lover
of literature, a writer and a teacher myself, I have devoted a
> good deal of
time to reading the work of authors I love and reflecting on
> the issues
that their work raises. However, if I wanted to start the "what
> if"
game and begin to ask that writers conform to MY ideal of what a
> productive
life would be, then I am overstepping my bounds.
happily, I am not
bound by the same rules, Jeff. I love
the what if
game. because it
is an exercise of understanding. My area
of interest
is more william b
and allen than Jack but I have specific permission to
play the what if game
by william. When we drove around the
country side
william and i
would play what if, not only about our lifes but on the
surrounding
environs. At first I wasn't too good but
as the years
rolled on i got a
lot better. By imagining things slightly
different
you gain
understanding not only of how things are but how they could be,
and how change
occurs. I was playing what if about
william just before
i read your
post. what if james hadn't headed to
newyork and knocked on
williams
door. what if william hadn't followed
james to lawrence. some
of williams best
writing (imuho) was written after william lived here.
william loved to
play what if, not as a regret game but as a mental
exercise. It is central to my interest in beat
literature or most
literature that
the idea of looking hard and really understanding things
become a part of
ones approach to living. the exercise of the mind is
part of the
job. I do not need a bible with answers,
but a book of damn
good questions.
The truth is that a writer's life and how
>
"well" he or she has lived it, is NOT the business of his biographer
or his
I can't see the
NEED to take such a narrow approach to business. I look
at how william
lived his live and treasure some of the things i learned
from him every
day. I also treasure those things he
learned from his
mistakes. (Like
don't call the police unless you know what they will do
and you want them
to do it, ) I also watched him let his
great
curiosity keep
him too close to snakes.
> critics. A
writer WRITES -- regardless of what detours, mishaps, bad
> decisions
and fuckups might be part of his life. My interest, as a teacher,
> scholar and
writer is not to moralize about how much suffering MIGHT have
> been avoided
if all these men and women had just acted more in their own
>
self-interest. Yes, Gerry, they might have lived longer, produced more
> books, and
been happier--but I say only MAYBE. The fact is, if they had done
> the
"common sense" thing, then they'd be living YOUR life, Gerry -- not
> THEIR OWN.
There is a connection between a writer's life and what he or she
> writes. The
hell, suffering and personal degradation that writers inflict on
> themselves
and those around them are often the price that must be paid if
> these these works of art are ever going to come
into being.
i really think
this is silly, I accept the greatness
and the horror but
to think that all
is inevitable is too simplistic. Stretch
it out.
>
"well-adjusted" author's life would have a hard time standing up to
>
second-guessing like that, and keep in mind that we are talking about a life
> that has
already been lived. Truth is, you may be doing Keroauc's image more
> harm than
good by lamenting how many mistakes he made,
my god, i don't
give a rats ass about keroacs image compared to better
understanding
both the writing and the writer. I feel
"-no criticism"
is degrading to
both.
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:10:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 07:00 PM
3/22/98 EST Jeffrey Perchuk wrote: The fact is, if they had done
>the
"common sense" thing, then they'd be living YOUR life, Gerry -- not
>THEIR OWN.
There is a connection between a writer's life and what he or she
>writes. The
hell, suffering and personal degradation that writers inflict on
>themselves
and those around them are often the price that must be paid if
>these these works of art are ever going to come
into being....
. Truth is, you
may be doing Keroauc's image more
>harm than
good by lamenting how many mistakes he made, because it encourages
>people to
focus on the sensationalistic and lurid aspects of JK's life
Dear Jeffrey:
I found your
response strangely offpoint.
I was not
advocating a new "approach" to Kerouac; I was simply relating a
vision I had had
while reading SOME OF THE DHARMA, as well as some of my own
feelings that had
been aroused by the book. I did not
claim to be
propounding
literary criticism. Nor did I suggest
Jack Kerouac should live
as Gerald Nicosia
or that Gerald Nicosia should live as Jack Kerouac.
It seems absurd
for you to say that I am "harming" Jack Kerouac by
suggesting that
there is sometimes an uncomfortable level of negativity in
his writing. I honestly don't know where you're coming
from. You remind me
of some of the
Sampas family members who told me that I should not tell
people that Jack
was an alcoholic or that he was sometimes rude and crude to
women (when
drunk). I don't think Jack Kerouac needs
our protection or for
us to pretend his
dark side wasn't there. What good would
it serve if we
pretended Jack
was just doing what a genius had to do--as you suggest?
Would it make his
work more saleable?
I don't think
geniuses have to degrade or destroy themselves to do their
work. As Gregory Corso once commented to me,
"I've smelled the farts of a
lot of poets; but
I never smelled a poem's fart." He
was making a point:
that the artist
and the art are indeed separate. The
poet may stink as a
person--it's
certainly nothing to brag about--but the stink doesn't
necessarily
extend to what he creates. By the same
token--or in reverse--if
we acknowledge
the beauty of a work of art, we don't have to pretend the
artist had the
same beauty in his personal life.
Best always,
Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:12:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bryan Farrow <bryan_farrow@yahoo.com>
Subject: looking for a recommendation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I am very tempted
to part with 50 of my few too dollars in exchange
for a Kerouac
CD-box set I saw advertised in a Rhino Records
catalogue. I
watched a Kerouac documentary a few nights ago -- one
that featured an
interview with our Memory Babe on the Steve Allen
show. At first, I
thought Allen's piano-playing over the Q+A dialogue
was dismissive
and arrogant, though I guess that was his schtick.
Anyway, some of
the jazz riffs he played under Kerouac's reading of
the end of OTR
worked well. Does anyone know if the CD has more of
this? Is it worth
the money? Thanks (in advance for the referral, and
in retrospect for
plenty to think about in in my cold-water flat)
bryan
==
---------------------------------------
Bryan R. Farrow
388-323D Dillard,
Sta. 2
Charlottesville,
VA 22904
(804) 243-0918
bryan_farrow@yahoo.com,
bryan_farrow@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:19:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
the writing
endures.
and was written
in the time place and by the person that JK was; that is all we
have. i too, was
shocked to find out that i had shelled out over 30 bucks to
find so much
bitterness about women children and others. but it is a crack, a
crevice into what
propelled the work and the man's life choices.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:27:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: What if?
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In general, I
share Jeff's reservations about the value of the "what if"
approach to
literary criticism. However, I think
that such an approach
can sometimes be
very useful to jump start a discussion, something I
think Gerry was
aiming for in his post. Although posing
a question
such as
"what if Gerrard had lived" may be pointless in and of itself,
for instance, it
might lead to a broad examination of the impact of
Gerrard's death
on Jack's life and work. So, taken
withalong with
other critical
approaches, "what if?" might be a useful way to approach
some topics.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:27:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Catch Phrase?..
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 23-Mar-98 7:48:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Tcsorensen@aol.com
writes:
<< an brief
eloquent summary of the spirit of these American icons. >>
In the
Introduction to "The Portable Beat Reader," Ann Charters includes a
coupla pithy
quotables.
First, Kerouac on
what's Beat and what's Not:
In "The
Philosophy of the Beat Generation," which he wrote for Esquire
magazine in March
1958, Kerouac made clear that the group that originated the
idea of a
"Beat Generation" was short-lived, consisting only of a few friends
in the 1940s such
as Ginsberg, Carr, Burroughs, Huncke, and Holmes, who had
scattered and
left New York years before. But after the Korean War, in the
early 1950s,
according to Kerouac, the "postwar youth emerged cool and beat,
had picked up the
gestures and the style; soon it was everywhere, the new
look...the bop
visions became common property of the commercial, popular
cultural
world...The ingestion of drugs became official (tranquilizers and the
rest); and even
the clothes style of the beat hipsters carried over to the new
rock'n'roll
youth...and the Beat Generation, though dead, was resurrected and
justified."
And Charters' own
analysis, which I think can be used to sum up:
<<Like the
work of the radical writers of the 1930s...Beat poetry and fiction
was an
alternative literature by writers who were sweeping in their
condemnation of
their country's underlying social, sexual, political, and
religious values.
Earlier modernist poets like Ezra Pound or Lost Generation
writers like
Ernest Hemingway had attacked the system from the safeguard of
their life abroad
as expatriates, but the Beat Generation writers protested
their country's
excesses on the front lines. They advocated personal and
social changes
that made them heroes to some readers, and heretics to
others.>>
So, to me, what's
essential about the Beats includes the spontaneity of the
uprising, the universal
consciousness of these men and women that demanded and
created change,
and their in-your-face participation in that change
("America/I'm
putting my queer shoulder to the wheel").
By the way, that
entire Introduction to the Beat Reader is the best, most
succinct summary
of Beat I've ever read. Charters managed to distill almost
everything into a
few powerful pages. I recommend you read that, if you
haven't done so
already.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:27:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: looking for a recommendation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Bryan Farrow
wrote:
> I am very
tempted to part with 50 of my few too dollars in exchange
> for a
Kerouac CD-box set I saw advertised in a Rhino Records
> catalogue. I
watched a Kerouac documentary a few nights ago -- one
> that
featured an interview with our Memory Babe on the Steve Allen
> show. At
first, I thought Allen's piano-playing over the Q+A dialogue
> was
dismissive and arrogant, though I guess that was his schtick.
> Anyway, some
of the jazz riffs he played under Kerouac's reading of
> the end of
OTR worked well. Does anyone know if the CD has more of
> this? Is it
worth the money? Thanks (in advance for the referral, and
> in
retrospect for plenty to think about in in my cold-water flat)
> bryan
By all means,
buy, borrow, or steal this box set! The
first CD features
Kerouac reading
accompanied by Steve Allen on piano; the second CD has K.
reading
accompanied by Al Cohn and Zoot Sims on saxes; the third CD is K.
reading
unaccompanied. Each CD (which represent
the three albums K.
recorded in the
late 50's) features bonus tracks (including the Steve Allen
show appearance
mentioned above). Speaking for myself, I
found Kerouac's
poetry and prose
to be much more accessible after I had heard the cadences
of his spoken
word. It was a real ear-and-mind-opening
experience!
Enjoy!
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:30:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@aol.com>
Subject: desolation angels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
first off i want
to thank everyone who gave me suggestions for topics on otr
and db. some of you may remember that i am helping to
organize/mediate a
discussion class
on kerouac/ginsberg at my college. we've
now reached
desolation
angels, and i'm curious if anyone has any
suggestions for
discussion topics
regarding themes, etc. at the same time
we are reading
desolation
angels, we are also want to be reading letters and ginsberg poetry.
so if anyone can
think of any particuarly good letters or poetry that would
fit in well with
da, i'd aprreciate your comments.
thanks,
carly nicole.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:35:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 22-Mar-98 4:01:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, Jeff Perchuk
writes:
<< However,
if I wanted to start the "what
if" game and begin to ask that writers
conform to MY ideal of what a
productive life would be, then I am
overstepping my bounds. I could start
postulating "what ifs" with any
number of writers-- for example, what if
Pound had not been an anti-Semite who
propounded lunatic economic theories?
What if DeQuincey hadn't "wasted"
his life as an opium addict? What if
Dostoyevsky had not been an alcolholic and a
chronic gambler? What if Joyce
had been a "good" Catholic instead
of the unruly malcontent that the Church
considers him to be? What if Mailer had never
tried to "rehabilitate" Jack
Henry Abbot? What if all the writers who
behaved in a self-destructive,
cruel or irrational manner had behaved better?
>>
And Gerry Nicosia
had written:
<<What if,
instead, Jack gave up his particular negative Buddhist
>philosophy at
that point? What if he tried to give up
booze, developed a
>stable match
with Helen, and eventually got married, say, in 1958? He'd be
>celebrating
his 40th wedding anniversary now, a robust and hale 76 years
>old, with
another 30 or so books added to his canon.
And maybe, in this
>scenario, he
would also have developed a decent relationship with his
>daughter Jan,
and encouraged her to take care of her own health problems
>(including a
blood disease she inherited from him), so that she didn't end
>up
self-destructing as well at age 44.
Maybe Jan, now 46, would be showing
>up at his
wedding anniversary with a few of her own kids, his grandchildren.
> A crazy fantasy?>>
And patricia
wrote:
<<william
loved to play what if, not as a regret game but as a mental
exercise. It is central to my interest in beat
literature or most
literature that
the idea of looking hard and really understanding things
become a part of
ones approach to living. the exercise of the mind is
part of the
job. I do not need a bible with answers,
but a book of damn
good
questions.>>
And now, I say:
Gerry's original
post seemed wrongheaded from the first sentence, where he
said he had
almost "finished" reading "Some of the Dharma". That's like
saying
you've almost
finished reading the Bible. "Some of the Dharma" is not a book
you sit down and
read cover to cover and evaluate, all in a short space of
time. Like so
many other books by visionary writers, its messages are not all
revealed
simultaneously, or even sequentially.
Also up front in
Gerry's letter was a roundly conclusive analysis of Kerouac's
opinions toward
women, children, etc. Although he allows that this might have
had something to
do with jack's drinking, again, he misses the point.
Kerouac was
conflict on wheels, that "walking contradiction" come to life.
It's a losing
game to try to imagine what he'd do consistently. Even his best
friends didn't
know. This may be best demonstrated in "Scripture of the Golden
Eternity,"
where it was well-noted by Anne Waldman that Kerouac embodied that
"negative
capablility" of being able to hold two conflicting thoughts in his
head at one time.
It is the essence of yin/yang. Truly, conflict is more a
part of life than
harmony, for most people, and especially for artists.
Kerouac had the
opportunity to settle down and live statically when he married
Stella and moved
to Florida in 1966. The fact that he died a few years later
can't be linked
to embracing Buddhism in the mid-1950s. He never demonstrated
any consistency
in his life, any staying power. His military service, his
college career,
his marriages, his friendships, all were subject to the
vicissitudes of
his life.
A 40th wedding
anniversary, hale and robust, bouncing grandchildren on his
knee? Not
Kerouac. There's nothing in his life to indicate that he ever had a
shot at this
scene, and even less to indicate that he ever would have desired
it.
Jack's friend in
St. Petersburg, Ronny Lowe, who was the last person to see
him alive, once
asked Jack if he had any children, which set Kerouac right off
in an angry rant:
"My books are my children,' Jack said, "and they will still
be around when
your children's children's children are dust!"
Kerouac knew his
limitations, which formed his path. "Some of the Dharma" goes
a long way toward
explaining that.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:35:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@moving-people.net>
Subject: Re: book of dreams by burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
QNofMETH schrieb:
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> have you
read Yage Letters by allen ginsberg and Burroughs???
>
> meth
sure i did read
it, just as every earnest burroughsian would do. :) it's
great!
if you haven't
read it yet, go to your nearest bookshop & get a copy.
but where is the
exact connection to burroughs' dream theory?
jens
Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:36:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@moving-people.net>
Subject: Re: Amerika, Amerika
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Sockmunkie
schrieb:
> ----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> does anyone
have any suggestions as to why the speaker of Amerika identifies
> himself as
catholic, when ginsberg himself was jewish, and not much into
> fictional
poetry?
well... just see
it as a joke. when i heard him read "america" on the "holy
sould jelly
roll" cd (rhino wordbeat 1994) where he sounded like a mad comedian,
i realized that
this poem is full of irony. you simply gotta buy the records,
even if only for
this reading of "america"!
jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:00:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: book of dreams by burroughs
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Nope no
connection to the dream theory just wondering if you read,,,yhea i
have a
copy....its groovy...
and the beat goes
on...meth
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:01:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Amerika, Amerika
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
youre damn
straight..allen was just screwing around...this rendition is on
"The Beat
Generation", and "Holy Soul Jelly Roll" audio...i highly recommend
these recordings.
and the beat goes
on..
Meth
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:51:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: New Welcome Message
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Welcome to
BEAT-L, an online discussion forum devoted to the
study of the
lives and works of the writers of the Beat
Generation,
especially Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and
William
Burroughs. BEAT-L is an unmoderated list
open to
anyone interested
in the Beat Generation. Scholars,
writers,
students, laymen
-- all are welcome to join the discussion
and share their
ideas. In addition to providing an
outlet
for discussion of
Beat texts, the listserv is intended to
facilitate
scholarly communication and to serve as a bulletin
board or calendar
for poetry readings, announcements of new
publications,
upcoming conferences and other Beat related
events.
Beat-l is an
academic discussion list -- not a chat room.
The rules of
netiquette that apply here, therefore, will
correspond to the
kind of etiquiette that would govern one's
behavior in a college
classroom. Discussions will often
lead to
disagreements but rebuttals to another's postings or
beliefs should
always be made in a rational, logical, and
mature
manner. Insults, accusations,
disparaging remarks,
character
assassinations, and ad hominum attacks will not be
tolerated.
Everyone on the list will be expected to treat one
another with
respect and civility.
There is one
topic, now in the courts, that has led to a
barrage of
querulous and acrimonious posts on Beat-l -- the
Kerouac Estate
controversy. Since this issue will be
decided
in the courts,
and since there are several web pages
discussing
various sides of this issue, this topic is banned
from discussion
on Beat-l. Anyone who is uncertain as to
whether or not a
message might violate this ban should check
with the
listowner before posting. Those wishing
more
information on
the estate controversy can find it through
various search
engines on the internet.
All postings
should fall within the scope of the list as
stated above and
be of interest to the group as a whole.
If
side issues
develop that are of interest to some listmembers,
they should
continue that discussion privately. For
example,
someone might
initiate a discussion of Jack Kerouac as an
existentialist
writer. After several postings, a thread
might develop on
the nature of existentialism. At the
point
that the
discussion focuses more on existentialism than
Kerouac, the
conversation should be switched to backchannel.
Listmembers
should always consider whether a reply to a post
should be sent to
the list or responded to privately.
Short
messages like
"Nice going" or "You hit the nail on the head,"
for instance, are
probably better sent directly to the person
who posted the
message rather than to the list. Sending
such
messages
privately will keep listmember's mailboxes from
becoming
cluttered. Likewise, avoid repeating
messages --
especially long
ones -- unless absolutely necessary.
Snipping or
summarizing long posts when replying to them
makes it easier
on everyone to read through their mail.
Finally, make
sure the subject of the post is clearly
indicated in the
subject line. Those uninterested in that
subject can
delete it without reading it.
Copyrighted
material should not be posted to the list without
permission (fair
use rules applying) nor should private
correspondence be
posted without the permission of the
author. If interesting material is found on a web
site, post
the url rather
than the material itself. Interested
parties
can examine it if
they so desire, without having it clutter
up the mailboxes
of those who have no interest. Cunyvm
has
problems handling
files that are not in ascii format.
Before
attempting to
post photographs, attachments, or large data
files to Beat-l,
please check with the listowners. It is
usually a better
idea to load these files on a web page and
post the url to
the list.
All new members
added to Beat-l will have their posts
reviewed for a
period of time to be determined by the
listowner. This will help guarantee that new members
know
and understand
the scope of the list and abide by the above
netiquette
guidelines.
Anyone violating
the above guidelines will, at the sole
discretion of the
listowner, have their messages reviewed
before posting,
have their posts blocked from the list, or be
removed from the
list entirely, depending on the nature and
the frequency of
the offense. Action will be swift and
severe for those
who engage in flames or post on the Kerouac
Estate
controversy.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:52:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Welcome message
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have uploaded
the new "Welcome Message" to listserv and distributed it
to all current
listmembers via Beat-l. Please read the
message
carefully. The rules and regulations as stated in this
message will be
strictly
enforced. I anticipate that these
changes will make the list a
little more
formal and academic and that they will
create an atmosphere
that will
encourage everyone on the list to be respectful and civil to
one another. I will change the list back to an unmoderated
format over
the next or
two. Let's hope we can all make beat-l
work.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:32:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Damn Good Question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
OTR #3:
"A tall,
lanky fellow in a gallon hat stopped his car on the wrong side
of the road and
came over to us; he looked like a sheriff.
We prepared
our stories
secretly. He took his time coming over.
'You boys going get
get somewhere, or
just going?' We didn't understand his
question, and
it was a damn
good question."
Seems like this
is still a damn good question. What does
the Beat
Generation
provide us as an answer? Years separate
from the lankly
fellow's question
but it still seems worthy of considering.
Though it
doesn't come from
a scholar, it seems to question the scholarly
underpinnings of
studying the Beat Generation. I don't
know that I have
a good answer to
the question but look forward to the answers of others.
d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:34:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <jymmoon@execpc.com>
Subject: Good Will Hunting
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Just saw this
fine movie by Gus Van Sant tonight, and noticed at the end of
the credits that
it is dedicated to the memory of Allen Ginsberg and
William
Burroughs.
Jym
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:40:31 EST
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@ehc.edu>
Subject: Desolation Angels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Hello again.
I'm so excited to
be able to talk so much about Desolation Angels. It
is by far and
away my favorite Kerouac novel. In my
opinion it contains
the height of
Jack's spontaneaous prose along with the thrill of the
cross country
travel and all the major players included.
Not only this,
but it dives far
more deeply and maturely (and frankly) into the
problems in
Jack's life.
Some themes you
might want to look at:
Sexuality
Religion
family conflict
* over Gerard
* over his father
* over his mother
** a general
feeling of guilt regarding his family, especially his
mother **
success and
failure as a continuum
-- it's
interesting to note how many times Jack looks back in retrospect
during this novel
and how many justifications he makes for his writing.
Far more than in
On the Road or even Dharma Bums, if I had to recommend
ONE Kerouac
novel, this would be it. Pay special
attention to religion
in this one -- I
was glad to find that on the cover of my latest edition
of this book
Nelson Algren is quoted as saying that the book may explain
the role of
religion in the beat world better than any other.
Not to ruin it
for you, but the part where the book gets it's namesake
where Jack dons
the silver cross... read this passage and perhaps the
beatitudes out of
your bible and *BANG* a whole lot makes sense and a
new perspective
is revealed.
shiny and happy
Chris
--
"~God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
neverlived and
neverdied. That we should only learn it now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it is
already done, there's no more to do."
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:41:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
At 02:35 PM
3/23/98 EST, you wrote:
>Gerry's
original post seemed wrongheaded from the first sentence, where he
>said he had
almost "finished" reading "Some of the Dharma". That's like
saying
>you've almost
finished reading the Bible. "Some of the Dharma" is not a book
>you sit down
and read cover to cover and evaluate, all in a short space of
>time. Like so
many other books by visionary writers, its messages are not all
>revealed
simultaneously, or even sequentially.
>
>Jack's friend
in St. Petersburg, Ronny Lowe, who was the last person to see
>him alive,
once asked Jack if he had any children, which set Kerouac right off
>in an angry
rant: "My books are my children,' Jack said, "and they will still
>be around
when your children's children's children are dust!"
>
Ms. DeRooy seems
to have joined the bash-Nicosia club.
As I wrote to
Bill Gargan, I was hardly writing literary criticism of Some
of the
Dharma. I was giving my feelings on
reading the book. To say I have
committed
sacrilege against the Bible of Kerouacophiles is plain nutty. You
don't have to
read every page of a book to have an opinion about it.
Kerouac himself
never read more than half of Swann's Way--the first of the
seven books in
Remembrance of Things Past--yet he referred frequently to
Proust throughout
his life, and spouted all sorts of opinions about him.
As for Ronny Lowe, he is a friend of
mine, and he told me that when
Jack made that
quote about books being his children, he was extremely angry
and defensive,
and didn't seem convinced of the boast himself.
I suggest
Ms. DeRooy check
this out with Ron Lowe herself, if she doesn't believe me.
I'm on the road for a few days.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:03:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@drc.com>
Subject: Jack and Neal
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Try "Visions
of Cody" for a first hand look into the relationship
between Jack and
Neal (and for the other version of 'On the Road').
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:30:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@moving-people.net>
Subject: Re: looking for a recommendation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> Bryan Farrow
wrote:
>
> > I am
very tempted to part with 50 of my few too dollars in exchange
> > for a
Kerouac CD-box set I saw advertised in a Rhino Records
> >
catalogue. I watched a Kerouac documentary a few nights ago -- one
> > that
featured an interview with our Memory Babe on the Steve Allen
> > show.
At first, I thought Allen's piano-playing over the Q+A dialogue
> > was
dismissive and arrogant, though I guess that was his schtick.
> > Anyway,
some of the jazz riffs he played under Kerouac's reading of
> > the end
of OTR worked well. Does anyone know if the CD has more of
> > this?
Is it worth the money? Thanks (in advance for the referral, and
> > in
retrospect for plenty to think about in in my cold-water flat)
> > bryan
Oh boy, you're
ASKING whether you should buy these CDs, I don't get it! Buy
them, they're
worth every single cent!
The broadcasting
of parts of these CDs (about 5 years ago) was my first audio
encounter with
Kerouac. After having raced thru "On the Road", these recordings
were a revelation
to me, then a weird 17-year-old boy (now a
23-year-old-errr...
boy)
My favourites
from this collection are the "American Haikus", though I am not
much into Asian
poetry.
In my medicine
cabinet
the winter fly
has died
of old age.
- Jack Kerouac
They played parts
of all the CDs late at night on my favourite radio station,
and I taped it
all. In fact, I still have the tapes. :) They're my favourites.
Jens from Germany
P.S.
Months after the
new German translation of On The Road has come out, they now
will broadcast a
German radioplay based on On the Road. It'll be next friday
night, and if
anyone is curious what they did to old Jack's work over here,
I'll give you a
short report on this radioplay. Anyone interested?
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:30:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>
Subject: Re: If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> Diane De
Rooy wrote:
> Kerouac knew
his limitations, which formed his path. "Some of the
> Dharma"
goes
> a long way
toward explaining that.
That Kerouac was
a walking contradiction, that he fluxuated between
extremes, and
thrived on conflict, (especially to the extent that it
drove his
writing) are all valid conclusions. But
I'm not convinced that
"he knew his
limitations which formed his path."
In fact, I think that
"Some of the
Dharma" shows clearly that he struggled with Buddhism with a
mindset and
personality that clouded his understanding and was a
limitation. But
he never saw how his "thinking" was what limited it.
Granted he didn't
want a wife and children and couldn't be happy in that
environment but
did he understand why? Did he truly
understand how his
family
environment or the death of Gerard affected his wanderings, his
lack of
"staying power" or how death or despair about dying precluded a
different view of
life? Did he understand how his mother
so profoundly
influenced/ruled
his life? Kerouac's path was one of
constant flux and
change and one
that was ruled by emotions and emotional turmoil. He lived
it and he wrote
about it and we understand it because we are often caught
in the same
conflicts. But did he ever understand
his weaknesses and
limitations and
see how they obstructed his path? I've
never read "Some
of the
Dharma" from cover to cover and I'm not sure it's even a good
thing to
try. I pick it up and read small
portions at a time, and even
so I'm usually
overwhelmed by how, for Kerouac, all is emptiness and
sadness, and how
his spiritual quest is obscured by the vicissitudes of
his psychological
life. We all follow our own particular
path and
have our
particular limitations and strengths. We
are driven by them
but not everyone
necessarily "sees" them. So, I guess I would ask, if you
think Kerouac
knew his limitations. what were they? I
would say he lived
them but he
didn't necessarily "see" them.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
mdemo@hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:34:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matt Demo <mdemo@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: kerouac newbie
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I would
definitely recommend Dharma Bums, that's my favorite.
Matt
On Thu, 19 Mar
1998, ZePhyra11 wrote:
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> i'm in my
first year of college, and have recently read "desolation angels."
> it is the
first kerouac i've read (frankly, because i was looking for "on the
> road"
but it was currently checked out). I
loved it. it had such an effect
> on me that
i'm reading kerouac's poetry like crazy, and my boyfriend bought me
> a copy of
"on the road" for my birthday, and i'm going to delve into that as
> soon as i
get a chance. i guess my question is:
what other kerouac novels do
> you guys
recommend? i went to barnes and noble
and have discovered that there
> are numerous
works by this great man.
>
> --carly
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:55:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Morgan book signing
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those
listmembers in the New York metropolitan area, Bill Morgan,
author of the
"Beat Generation in New York: A Walking Tour of Jack
Kerouac's
City," will be doing a book signing and slide show in the
Barnes &
Noble book store at Astor Place on April 9th at 7:30.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:03:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Planet News: A Tribute to AG
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I came upon the
following notice in the April/May issue of the St.
Mark's
"Poetry Project": "Planet
News: A Tribute to Allen Ginsberg
celebrates five
decades of Ginsberg's social activism and pollitical
awarness. The event will take place in the Cathederal
at St. John the
Divine (Amsterdam
Ave. and 112th Street) on Thursday, May 14 at 7:30
p.m. There will be performances, talks and
readings by Philip Glass,
Sonya Sanchez,
The Fugs, Anne Waldman, Jayne Cortez, Steven Taylor,
Stephan Smith,
Pedro Pietri, Andy Clausen, Danny Schechter, David
Dellinger, and
others to be announced. Admission is
free. For more
information
contact Bob Rosenthal at (212) 358-9534.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:12:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@aol.com>
Subject: Re: carly
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 98-03-21 14:52:04 EST, you write:
<< lion
head bastard with an exaggerated large male [ha!]organ whom ill surely
have "golden copulations" >>
Ok, have to ask
about the "golden copulations" line... because it's also in
this Jim Morrison
poem... "An American Prayer" I think or maybe "The New
creatures" I
don't know. So I'm guessing it's also in something Ginsberg? Oh
man.
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:12:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: looking for a recommendation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Jens Moellenhoff
wrote:
>
>
> P.S.
> Months after
the new German translation of On The Road has come out, they now
> will
broadcast a German radioplay based on On the Road. It'll be next friday
> night, and
if anyone is curious what they did to old Jack's work over here,
> I'll give
you a short report on this radioplay. Anyone interested?
i'm nearly
certain that most of us would be interested.
maybe that's
going over board
... how can i imagine what most on a list this diverse
would be
interested in ... suffice to say that I would be interested and
hope that you
give us a grand and full report.
d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:20:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@aol.com>
Subject: what if- just a concept
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Well now
I for one am not going to get into
the what if's games anymore-
but... i suggest
that we all re-read Dr.Sax.
Let us forget- for the moment- if we
can.. that ol JK was a blood
and flesh human
being- with all faults that being that entails
and... dwell on this beauteous
work... that brings us back to
the magic of
childhood... and the fear of evil things we cannot understand...
yet- try to
imagine away- by mebbe... playing made-up baseball games and race
track games... on
a rainy dreary Lowell day while Mom and Pop are sipping
coffee in the
back
and... maybe.... actually creating a
work of lyrical prose poetry
that will stand
down the ages- perhaps next to Swanns Way
rivaled mebbe by some of the passages
in Visions of Cody- excluding
those boring tape
passages
so that... instead of expounding in what
if's... and who are yous? and
jsut exactly how
doggone smart i am
and by golly...i know it all...
why dont we just read the man....
come on back here some time later
and say..... WOW!
Gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:32:51 EST
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson
<ninmar@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Catch Phrase?..
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I am looking for
the impossible. I am doing an oral
report on the beat
writers and I
desire an brief eloquent summary of the spirit of these
American
icons. Does any body out there have it wasting away
in the brain? Let
me
quote you in the
report, you will be credited of course... anybody?
They dig deep in
the sad earth to plant new trees of change and joy.
Mark J
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:33:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Hemenway . Mark"
<MHemenway@drc.com>
Subject: Kerouac CD
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
1. Yes, it's
worth the money. If you want to hear Kerouac reading his
own stuff, it's
the only game in town.
2. Kerouac
pioneered/popularized jazz and poetry.It was his schtick. His
poetics were
based on (See the Book of Blues) the concept of jazz
poetry, to
capture the essence, the form of Jazz on the the page.
3. One CD in the
set is the Kerouac appearance on the Steve Allen Show.
The Second CD is
Zoot Sims on sax behind Jack, the third is just Jack.
Mark Hemenway
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:39:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Kerouac's (and other's) feet of clay
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 24-Mar-98 1:42:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gnicosia@earthlink.net
writes:
<< Ms.
DeRooy seems to have joined the bash-Nicosia club.
As I wrote to Bill Gargan, I was hardly writing
literary criticism of Some
of the Dharma.
I was giving my feelings on reading the book. To say I have
committed sacrilege against the Bible of
Kerouacophiles is plain nutty. You
don't have to read every page of a book to
have an opinion about it. >>
I have no
interest in bashing anyone. I believe we are all the best
advertisements
for ourselves, and that every point in a discussion has a
counterpoint. How
a person chooses to debate will have an effect on the
outcome of the
debate. Therefore, I choose to debate rationally, hoping for a
rational outcome.
As I stated in my
original response, Kerouac was a study in conflict. I don't
think this point
could be refuted by anyone who knows anything about his life.
I also stated
that he was inconsistent in virtually all areas. Again, this is
a point that
cannot be refuted.
There is
virtually nothing in Gerry's highly speculative post that I agree
with. What is the
connection between jack's study of Buddhism and his
progressive
disease of alcoholism, inability to commit to marriage, or bad
parenting? Are
you saying he would have done better as a Catholic? What does
religion or
spirituality have to do with aging well, fidelity, devotion to a
child, or writing
30 more books in 40 years? I'm sure many atheists have lived
great lives and
done great things, as well as many spiritually conflicted
people. The path
of least resistance (conformity) does not necessarily lead to
heaven or
nirvana, literally or figuratively.
I actually saw
Gerry's post as a thinly veiled bashing of Kerouac, more than a
productive topic
for discussion. It's ironic that living, conscious beings
have to be
careful about what we say about one another, but anyone can claim
to be a
biographer and reinvent the life of someone who is dead.
But more than
that, the speculative nature of Gerry's post sent me back to his
book, MEMORY
BABE. Here is more irony: in this forum where people are always
asking what the
best books are to read by or about Kerouac, one of the bevy of
Kerouac
biographers is sitting in our midst. If I say what I believe, that
MEMORY BABE is a
bad biography of jack, I'm pretty sure I'd be accused of
making a personal
attack. And yet, my belief is based on reading Gerry's book
and then reviewing
some of the source materials he used, speaking with many of
the people he
interviewed, getting feedback from other writers and scholars.
I have a number
of complaints and criticisms of MEMORY BABE, and many of these
were echoed by
book reviewers and scholars. Criticism of a person's book,
scholarship,
writing style--this is fair game in the world. We do it all the
time on this
list.
It is my opinion
that Gerry is not an expert on Kerouac. MEMORY BABE is
certainly not
"definitive," as Gerry himself claims (letter to Sergeant David
Tousignant,
posted at BookZen). No one has written a definitive biography of
Kerouac yet, and
I don't expect we'll see one for a while.
The "what
if" letter draws speciously on an idea with no apparent foundation.
That is the part
that made me think of MEMORY BABE, where the writer did the
same thing. In
both cases, he attempts to create Kerouac out of some oral or
written history.
But he doesn't just allow the words to speak for themselves.
First, he runs
them through the sieve of his own personal experience and
context.
<<The
realization of what a challenge it is just to begin to know oneself, let
alone anyone
else, makes one want to reserve judgment forever. In my own case,
as a chronicler
of human lives, I've come to value bigraphy at its best as a
sort of
transplantation of life onto the printed page, a recreation that, if
it is pure
enough, makes judgment superfluous. Biographers who forge on in
pursuit of
absolute judgments usually find themselves, like Job, contending
with forces as
primordial and bloodless asa whirlwinds and lightning, forces
more apt to smash
human pretensions than to answer our paltry questions.>>
That last
paragraph was Gerry's, lifted verbatim from the Preface to the New
Edition of MEMORY
BABE. It addresses my points more efficiently than I can.
The first part,
about making judgments, is contradictory to Gerry's "what if"
post. The second
part is an overly melodramatic way of saying a simple thing.
That sort of spin-doctoring
really illustrates my arguments in opposition to
Gerry's post on
Kerouac and Buddhism, and comes close to summing up the
function of
MEMORY BABE in my list of resource materials on Kerouac. And
Gerry's own
"absolute judgments" made in his post, as well as in his book,
have indeed
invited scrutiny, which is "more apt to smash human pretensions
than to answer
our paltry questions," just as he feared.
A biographer
should not be a sacred cow, above reproach or criticism. Claiming
scholar's credentials
does not make one person an expert. Blind allegiance to
a person's point
of view, published or otherwise, was certainly a hallmark of
the 1950s, and
the Beat Generation smashed lock-step thinking to smithereens
with their art
and their lives. Everyone on this list, from 16-year-old high
school students
working on their first term papers to the aging old Beat
eyewitnesses who
lurk in the shadows, are equals. We all have brains, we all
seek answers to
questions, and we all are driven by this common attraction to
"Beat"
principles.
Jack Kerouac was
a deeply flawed human being, another irrefutable fact of his
life. But that
doesn't mean we can't learn from him, and for that very reason.
I believe that
drawing close to the reality of jack and being able to see him
without blinking
is an important exercise for the soul. It is for me, anyway.
In doing so, I
find I have no need to reinvent him.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:25:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: Kerouac CD
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Once again, if
you'd like to hear some excerpts from these worthwhile
recordings go
here:
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:29:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@aol.com>
Subject: Kerouac's path
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
In a message
dated 24-Mar-98 2:42:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, Diane Carter
writes:
<< So, I
guess I would ask, if you think Kerouac knew his limitations. what
were they? I would say he lived them but he didn't
necessarily "see" them. >>
I think my
statement is based on gut feelings more than any one statement.
This is largely
because of jack's tendency to swing from one idea to another
and then back
again.
But I picked out
a bunch of little things from various sources that, to me,
seem to
underscore my belief that he did know his limitations, and they formed
his path. I offer
a combination of his own words, along with a few from others
he read, who
influenced his thinking, and not in an "Eastern" way:
I was awakened to
show the way, chosen to die in the degradation of life,
because I am
Mortal Golden Eternity. -Scripture of the Golden Eternity
Death is the
other side of the same coin, we call now, life-Visions of Gerard
"Do I have a
baby daughter somewhere? I have not
troubled to find out..."
-Visions of Cody
...I was born.
Bloody rooftop. Strange deed. All eyes I came hearing the
river's red; I
remember that afternoon, I perceived it through beads hanging
in a door and
through lace curtains and glass of a universal sad lost redness
of mortal
damnation...
-Dr. Sax
I'm writing this
book because we're all going to die-In the loneliness of my
life, my father
dead, my brother dead, my mother faraway, my sister and wife
far away, nothing
here but my own tragic hands that once were guarded by a
world, a sweet
attention, that now are left to guide and disappear their own
way into the
common dark of all our death, sleeping in me raw bed, alone and
stupid; with just
this one pride and consolation: my heart broke in the
general despair
and opened up inwards to the Lord, I made a supplication in
this dream.
-Visions of Cody
Someday you'll be
lying
there in a nice
trance
and suddenly a
hot
soapy brush will
be
applied to your
face
-It'll be
unwelcome
-someday the
undertaker will
shave you
-Mexico City
Blues
"You see, I
was marching in the drill field with the guys, and I threw my gun
down and went to
the library to read. And they said, `What's the matter with
you?'...I said
`It is not that I will not accept discipline. It's that I cannot.
I am not a
warrior - I'm a scholar.' "
-Tape of
Kerouac's last night in Northport, 26 August 1964, home of Larry
Smith (researched
and published by Patrick Fenton, New York Newsday).
"I do not
feel capable at this time of taking an examination and I beg to be
excused, at least
temporarily, from the responsibility."
1949 note to
Professor Elbert Lenrow, instructor of "The 20th Century Novel in
America,"
The New School for Social Research in New York, from "Two
Unpublished
Student Papers" by Kerouac. Special Collections, Green Library,
Stanford
University (Researched by Dan Barth)
There's heat and
warm joy in my house. I linger at the window looking in. My
heart breaks to
see they're moving so slowly, with such dear
innocence
within, they
don't realize time and death will catch them-not now."
-Home at
Christmas
Those who talk
about the future are scoundrels. It is the present that
matters. To evoke
one's posterity is to make a speech to maggots.
- Louis Ferdinand
Celine
Which of us has
known his brother? Which of us has looked into his father's
heart? Which of
us has not remained forever prison-pent? Which of us is not
forever a
stranger and alone?
-THOMAS WOLFE
========================
A thing I sense
about Kerouac is his belief and simultaneous rejection of the
Christian concept
of predestination. When two forces collide like that, I
always think of
Zen, which always makes me think of Buddhism, which leads me
to understand
Kerouac's search for answers there, and his brilliant ability to
melt the two into
a unique spiritual alloy familiar to many who struggle and
seek.
E. M. Forster
believed in predestination, but believed people could fight it,
"wriggling...
against it...and in the whole universe the only really interesting
movement is this
wriggle." Jack wriggled, without a doubt, but in the end, he
went down the
path he learned at the age of four with the death of Gerard: We
are born to die.
Or, as jack said:
The point is
we're waiting, not how comfortable we are while waiting.
Paleolithic man
waited by caves for the realization of why he was there, and
hunted; modern
men wait in beautified homes and try to forget death and birth.
We're waiting for
the realization that this is the golden eternity.
It came on time.
-Scripture of the
Golden Eternity
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:30:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
Subject: dr sax
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
dr sax
my favorite
like my own
childhood
like my own
reality right now. i have four cookie sheets with magna art pieces
spread out. i
play scrabble pomes with myself. also memories of browny kitchen
suppers, wild
imagination, and intricate games played alone
also hanging out
in the wrinkly tar pavement corners of pawcatuck, ct.
i'm getting my
copy out now.
mc
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:57:56 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Damn Good Question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
when burroughs
met cassady during his first cross country drive with
kerouac,
burroughs asked what the point was to cassady's manic rushing
around.
cassady,
appearently never having posed the question to himself was left
speechless
the fact that
burroughs would ask that of cassady indicates a division
of opinion even
then, and maybe such questions are beside the point
it doesn't seem
like there's much of a shared philosophy between between
these guys, just
more of a general dissatisfaction with the promise of a
grey flannel
strait jacket
despite the
amount of artistic and intellectual discipline the beats had
on a personal
level i suspect the answer is 'just goin' but i also think
it's one o them
questions that no matter how you answer, you'll take the
other side soon
enough.
David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
>
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> OTR #3:
> "A
tall, lanky fellow in a gallon hat stopped his car on the wrong side
> of the road
and came over to us; he looked like a sheriff.
We prepared
> our stories
secretly. He took his time coming over.
'You boys going get
> get
somewhere, or just going?' We didn't
understand his question, and
> it was a
damn good question."
>
> Seems like
this is still a damn good question. What
does the Beat
> Generation
provide us as an answer? Years separate
from the lankly
> fellow's
question but it still seems worthy of considering. Though it
> doesn't come
from a scholar, it seems to question the scholarly
>
underpinnings of studying the Beat Generation.
I don't know that I have
> a good
answer to the question but look forward to the answers of others.
>
> d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:58:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: Sedington
<Sedington@aol.com>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: What if...? & "Some of.."
as Bible
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
This message
was originally submitted by
Sedington@AOL.COM to the BEAT-L list
at
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU. If you simply forward it back to the list, using a mail
command that
generates "Resent-" fields (ask your local user support or consult
the documentation
of your mail program if in doubt), it will be distributed and
the explanations
you are now reading will be removed automatically. If on the
other hand you
edit the contributions you receive into
a digest, you will have
to remove
this paragraph manually. Finally, you
should be able to contact the
author of this
message by using the normal
"reply" function of
your mail
program.
-----------------
Message requiring your approval (54 lines) ------------------
I hesitate to
join this discussion for fear of being consigned to the "bash
Nicosia
club." Are GN's opinions so sacrosanct that anyone who takes issue
with them
automatically becomes a member of this "club"? [No "flame"
intended
folks--just an
honest question arising from some recent posts.] Anyway, and to
wit:
While Gerry's
original post on the "If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism" issue raised
an intriguing
question, it was, as I read it, grounded on a false premise;
namely that
Buddhism itself was somehow at the root of JK's conflicted,
convoluted, and
at times misogynistic attitudes toward women--and that if he'd
given up Buddhism
somewhere back in the mid-1950's then he would have also
shucked off these
attitudes, entered into a longlasting and stable marriage,
and would be
enjoying grandparenthood today. That's a hell of a lot more than
I can swallow for
a variety of reasons.
Kerouac's highly
mixed attitudes toward women were in place well before he
embraced Buddhism
and remained in place after he did indeed move away from it.
In a broader
context, its my opinion that a human being's, attitudes, biases,
fears, loves,
hatreds, etc., etc., arise from deep within our personal and
collective (a la
Carl Jung) human psyches, and that we use religion of one
type or another
to reinforce those attitudes, biases, fears, etc. Kerouac's
attitudes about
women arose from any number of sources--many of which we'll
probably never
even know of--but at least some of them having to do with his
little-boy type
of relationship with his mother. JK may have used his own take
on Buddhism to
give voice to these attitudes at a particular time in his
life--and this
seems to be what Gerry is picking up on--but to suggest that
Buddhism somehow
"caused" these attitudes is really unsubstantiated, and in
the opinion I've
already stated, a false premise.
On a related
matter--if I may--I thought Ms. DeRooy's analogy with "Some of
the Dharma"
and the Bible was apt in more ways than one. Another way the
comparison works,
in addition to the one she made, is that "Some of..." can be
used for
"proof-texting" about Kerouac, much in the same way that Christian
fundamentalists
will lift up a certain Biblical passage to "prove" a point
about one thing
or another. Just as one can find a Biblical passage to "prove"
any point they
want to make, or to reinforce any prejudice or bias they may
hold, if they
look long and hard enough; one can also find any kind of Jack
Kerouac that one
wants to see in "Some of the Dharma". This, in fact, is what
I think Gerry has
done. He has begun with a conclusion about a certain aspect
of Kerouac's life
and then selected out certain passages from "Some of the
Dharma"
which supposedly "prove" his conclusion.
I think Diane
DeRooy is closer to the mark on this one--you have to look at
Kerouac's entire,
sometimes crazy, and often self-contradictory life and
work--and draw
your conclusions about the whole "Kerouac gestalt" on that
basis. Like
another great American writer, poet, and hobo--Walt Whitman--Jack
Kerouac
contradicted himself, big-time and throughout his life. To understand
Kerouac is to at
least try to understand his many and massive contradictions,
and not try to
put him in a box based on a certain kind of reading of certain
selected portions
of his writings.
Enough (more than
enough) for now. If this be "bashing" then so be it..I
prefer to think
of it as one guy's opinion..
Steve Edington
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:00:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@moving-people.net>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: "on the road", a german
language radio play
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
This message was
originally submitted by
jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET to the BEAT-L
list at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU. If you simply forward it back to the list,
using a
mail command that generates "Resent-"
fields (ask your local user support or
consult the documentation of
your mail program if in
doubt), it will be
distributed and
the explanations you
are now reading
will be removed
automatically. If
on the other hand you edit the contributions you receive into
a digest, you
will have to remove this paragraph
manually. Finally, you should
be able to contact
the author of this message by
using the normal
"reply"
function of your
mail program.
-----------------
Message requiring your approval (27 lines) ------------------
David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Jens
Moellenhoff wrote:
> >
> >
> > P.S.
> > Months
after the new German translation of On The Road has come out, they
now
> > will
broadcast a German radioplay based on On the Road. It'll be next friday
> > night,
and if anyone is curious what they did to old Jack's work over here,
> > I'll
give you a short report on this radioplay. Anyone interested?
>
> i'm nearly
certain that most of us would be interested.
maybe that's
> going over
board ... how can i imagine what most on a list this diverse
> would be
interested in ... suffice to say that I would be interested and
> hope that
you give us a grand and full report.
>
> d
Okay, I just decided
to send that report to BEAT-L. You'll all get it next
Saturday
afternoon Central
European Time.
Beatific
Greetings,
Jens
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:29:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: "L-Soft list server
at The City University of NY
(1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: BEAT-L: Ytirarevni@AOL.COM requested to
join
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Sun, 22 Mar 1998
11:27:56
A request for subscription to the BEAT-L list (BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List) has been
received from Ytirarevni@AOL.COM.
You can,
at your discretion,
send the following
command to
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(or LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET) to add this person
to the list:
ADD BEAT-L Ytirarevni@AOL.COM
Ytirarevni
PS: In order to
facilitate the task, this message has
been specially
formatted so
that you only
need to forward
it back to
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (or
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET) and
fill in
the
password to have
the command executed. Note that
while the formats
produced by the
forwarding function of most mail
packages are supported,
replying will
seldom work, so make sure to forward and not reply.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// JOB
PW=XXXXXXXX
ADD BEAT-L
Ytirarevni@AOL.COM Ytirarevni
// EOJ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:50:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sockmunkie <Sockmunkie@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: looking for a recommendation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'd like to hear
it.
--carly nicole
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:15:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ZePhyra11 <ZePhyra11@AOL.COM>
Subject: golden copulations
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
this line is in
"ghost song" actually. maybe
he says it more than one poem
though.
this is just a
rough translation of the poem...the real thing is in my
boyfriend's
"book of jim morrison's poetry" or something like that, at home.
although i
haven't read a *great* deal of beat poetry...jim's poetry has some
echoes of it (as
far as i can see.)
is that line in
ginsberg's poetry?
here's the poem
"ghost song" if anybody's interested. :o)
(* carly
awake
shake dreams from
your hair, my pretty child
my sweet one
choose the day
choose the sign
of your day
the day's
divinity
first thing you
see
the vast radiant
beach
and cool jeweled
moon
couples naked,
race down by its quiet side
and we laugh like
soft mad children
snug, in the
woolily cotton brains of infancy
music and voices
are all around us
choose, they
croon, the ancient ones
the time has come
again
choose now, they
croon, beneath the moon
beside an ancient
lake
enter again, the
sweet forest
enter the hot
dream, come with us
everything is
broken up and dances
indians scattered
on dharma's highway, bleeding
ghosts crowd the
young child's fragile eggshell womb
we have assembled
inside this ancient and insane theater
to propagate our
lust for life
and flee the
swarm of wisdom in the streets
barns of storm,
the windows kept
and only one of
all the rest
can save us from
the divine mockery of words
music enflames
temperment
oh great creator
of being
grant us one more
hour
to perform our
art
and perfect our
lives
we need great
golden copulations
when a true
kings' murderers are allowed to run free
a thousand
magicians rise in the land
where are the
feasts we were promised
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:40:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> Does anyone
have available Burroughs' quote on the "dangers" of
>
Buddhism. For some reason I was thinking
he said something about
> Kerouac and
it was like a warning not to dabble in Buddhism. I was
> unfamiliar
with the quote, have seen it here before and was thinking
> maybe it was
relevant to some of the portions of the thread on
> Kerouac's
> practice of
Buddhism. I would appreciate it if one
knows the quote if
> they could
post it. Thanks.
Burroughs said to
Kerouac: "A man who uses Buddhism or any other
instrument to
remove love from his being in order to avoid suffering, has
committed, in my
mind, a sacrilege comparable to castration."
(from Joyce
Johnson's Introduction to "Desolation Angels")
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:23:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MorganBill <MorganBill@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burrough's article
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Along this same
thread as the Cassady/Burroughs discussion, there's an article
in the April 1998
issue of Harper's Magazine about Burroughs entitled "The
Forgotten
Killer". It presents the theory
that Burroughs image has
overshadowed his
writing and that people may not be able to read his works due
to his fame. I always think of how difficult it is to look
at something like
The Statue of
Liberty as a sculpture since the symbol is so saturated with
other
meanings. But I don't believe that
Burroughs' work will be eclipsed by
his fame.
I thought of it
in the context of Cassady and Burroughs being so unlike each
other. I've always felt that none of the Beats fit
into a single mold.
Kerouac and
Ginsberg are not alike in many ways, Corso and Ferlinghetti are
not alike,
Burroughs and Holmes are not alike, etc.
It's amazing that
Ginsberg was able
to convince people that this was a group to begin with.
Bill Morgan
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:05:54 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Times of Disorder
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Two quick points:
1) Did everybody
see the cartoon in the _NY Times Book Review_? In the 22
March 1998 issue,
on p. 35 (the penultimate page) is a full-color,
full-page cartoon
by Seymour Chwast; it's a mock ad for something called
_Beats on
Broadway_ and contains the following blurbs: "See disillusioned
writers in their
own pads"; "The 50's literary icons will thrill you!"; "A
musical romp with
those merry bohemians"; "Jack Kerouac sings 'On the
Road'";
"Hear depraved poets reading in Greenwich Village cellars";
"Watch
Allen Ginsberg
dance as 'Howl' is seized by customs agents"; "GIRLS! with
Larry
Ferlinghetti Greg Corso Ken Rexroth Billy Burroughs & his bongo
band."
Anyone know who the artist Chwast is?
2) Yesterday I
got a card from Thomas Christian of _Chronicles of
Disorder_; the
card indicates that issue #5 of the Chronicles, "due
fall/1998,"
will be devoted to William Burroughs. Address: P.O. Box 721;
Schenectad, NY
12301.
Cordially,
Mike Skau
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:20:12 -0600
Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@cwis.unomaha.edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Damn Good Question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Wed, 25 Mar
1998, Michael Skau wrote:
> The
interesting point of this passage is that it poses the alternatives of
> process or
product. Perhaps the answer to the man's question lies in the
> title of the
novel--_On the Road_ (not Barth's _The End of the Road_).
> Cordially,
> Mike Skau
>
> On Tue, 24
Mar 1998, David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
>
> >
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > OTR #3:
> > "A
tall, lanky fellow in a gallon hat stopped his car on the wrong side
> > of the
road and came over to us; he looked like a sheriff. We prepared
> > our
stories secretly. He took his time
coming over. 'You boys going get
> > get
somewhere, or just going?' We didn't
understand his question, and
> > it was
a damn good question."
> >
> > Seems
like this is still a damn good question.
What does the Beat
> >
Generation provide us as an answer?
Years separate from the lankly
> >
fellow's question but it still seems worthy of considering. Though it
> > doesn't
come from a scholar, it seems to question the scholarly
> >
underpinnings of studying the Beat Generation.
I don't know that I have
> > a good
answer to the question but look forward to the answers of others.
> >
> > d
> >
>
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:23:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Times of Disorder
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 25-Mar-98 3:07:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mike writes:
<< it's a mock ad for something called _Beats on
Broadway >>
Mike, was this
cartoon presented just without context, or did it relate to
something else in
the book review section?
Wish I'd seen it.
Sounds hilarious.
Diane
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:15:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Times of Disorder
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those of you
that arent familiar with Chronicles of Disorder, its a
very formidable
publication put out by a very formidable guy, and its pure
homegrown stuff
from my hometown!
Speaking of
cartoons, there was a strip in the Village Voice a couple of
weeks ago by
Maakies, in which the best minds of my generation line is
paraphrased and
changed to " I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by bad
poetry". Needless to say, its taped to my wall!
~Nancy
>Two quick
points:
>1) Did
everybody see the cartoon in the _NY Times Book Review_? In the 22
>March 1998
issue, on p. 35 (the penultimate page) is a full-color,
>full-page
cartoon by Seymour Chwast; it's a mock ad for something called
>_Beats on
Broadway_ and contains the following blurbs: "See disillusioned
>writers in
their own pads"; "The 50's literary icons will thrill you!";
"A
>musical romp
with those merry bohemians"; "Jack Kerouac sings 'On the
>Road'";
"Hear depraved poets reading in Greenwich Village cellars";
"Watch
>Allen
Ginsberg dance as 'Howl' is seized by customs agents"; "GIRLS! with
>Larry
Ferlinghetti Greg Corso Ken Rexroth Billy Burroughs & his bongo
>band."
Anyone know who the artist Chwast is?
>2) Yesterday
I got a card from Thomas Christian of _Chronicles of
>Disorder_;
the card indicates that issue #5 of the Chronicles, "due
>fall/1998,"
will be devoted to William Burroughs. Address: P.O. Box 721;
>Schenectad,
NY 12301.
>Cordially,
>Mike Skau
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:26:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: Rosevalley
<Rosevalley@aol.com>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: May 14 Planet News
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
More information
on Planet News
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Dear Bill
I will put the
press release text into the body of this letter. The poetry
Project lacked
Patti's and Natalie's names.
Allen Ginsberg Trust/PO Box 582/Stuyvesant
Station/N.Y.C., N.Y. 10009
212 358 9534 (fax) 212 358 9529
*******FOR
IMMEDIATE RELEASE******
__________________________________________________________________
Planet News: A
Tribute to ALLEN GINSBERG will be held at St. John the
Divine Cathedral,
NYC on Thursday evening, May 14, 1998 at 7pm Free
__________________________________________________________________
For more information, contact:
Bob Rosenthal, Trustee
Allen Ginsberg Trust
212-358-9534
On Thursday evening, May 14th, 1998, 7pm, at
St. John the Divine Cathedral in
Manhattan, the
Committee on Poetry and the Allen Ginsberg Trust will present
"Planet
News: A Tribute to Allen Ginsberg." The event will be free and open to
the public.
Allen Ginsberg's groundbreaking and visionary
work provided inspiration to
poets and
political activists throughout the world for five decades. To honor
Allen's spirit
and to celebrate his life, his poetry, and his social
commitment, the
tribute will feature a 3-hour program of poets, musicians and
activist speakers
who either worked closely with Allen or were influenced by
him. Thus far,
confirmed performers and participants include: Amiri Baraka,
Patti Smith, The
Fugs, Philip Glass, Natalie Merchant, Anne Waldman, Sonia
Sanchez, Dave
Dellinger, Jayne Cortez, Danny Schechter, Stephan Smith, Pedro
Pietri, Andy
Clausen, Steven Taylor, David Greenberg
and special guests.
Allen Ginsberg was renowned for his ability to
inspire people to work for a
better
world; tribute organizers hope that this
event will advance Allen's
progressive
ideals as we enter a new millenium. Besides performing their own
original
materials, some of the participants will be performing Allen
Ginsberg's poems
and songs, including a few previously unpublished pieces. The
event will also
include informational tabling by groups promoting humanitarian
causes which
Allen endorsed.
The tribute Organizing Committee is being
chaired by the poet Ed Sanders, and
being coordinated
by Bob Rosenthal, Ginsberg's longtime assistant and current
Trustee. New
York's Cathedral of St. John the Divine is located at 1047
Amsterdam Avenue
at 112th Street.
# # #
Thanks
Bob
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:42:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: "L-Soft list server
at The City University of NY
(1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: BEAT-L: dufour@ULISSE.IT requested to
join
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Mon, 23 Mar 1998
10:17:47
A request for subscription to the BEAT-L list (BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List) has been
received from Francesco Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>.
You can,
at your discretion,
send the following
command to
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(or LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET) to add this person
to the list:
ADD BEAT-L dufour@ULISSE.IT
Francesco Dufour
PS: In order to
facilitate the task, this message has
been specially
formatted so
that you only
need to forward
it back to
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (or
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET) and
fill in
the
password to have
the command executed. Note that
while the formats
produced by the
forwarding function of most mail
packages are supported,
replying will
seldom work, so make sure to forward and not reply.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// JOB
PW=XXXXXXXX
ADD BEAT-L
dufour@ULISSE.IT Francesco Dufour
// EOJ
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:48:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: "Leon Tabory"
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: looking for a recommendation
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
This message was
originally submitted by
letabor@CRUZIO.COM to the BEAT-L list
at
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU. If you simply forward it back to the list, using a mail
command that
generates "Resent-" fields (ask your local user support or consult
the documentation
of your mail program if in doubt), it will be distributed and
the explanations
you are now reading will be removed automatically. If on the
other hand you
edit the contributions you receive into
a digest, you will have
to remove
this paragraph manually. Finally, you
should be able to contact the
author of this
message by using the normal
"reply" function of
your mail
program.
-----------------
Message requiring your approval (24 lines) ------------------
-----Original
Message-----
From: Jens
Moellenhoff <jensm@moving-people.net>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tuesday,
March 24, 1998 2:31 PM
Subject: Re:
looking for a recommendation
>P.S.
>Months after
the new German translation of On The Road has come out, they
now
>will
broadcast a German radioplay based on On the Road. It'll be next
friday
>night, and if
anyone is curious what they did to old Jack's work over here,
>I'll give you
a short report on this radioplay. Anyone interested?
Only get a moment
or two these days to check in. I still
will find time for
this one! Can't wait to read whatever you would send on
about it.
Fascinating.
Thank you Jens
Leon
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:08:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Times of Disorder
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Nancy Brodsky
wrote:
>
> Speaking of
cartoons, there was a strip in the Village Voice a couple of
> weeks ago by
Maakies, in which the best minds of my generation line is
> paraphrased
and changed to " I saw the best minds of my generation
> destroyed by
bad poetry". Needless to say, its taped to my wall!
> ~Nancy
> speaking of
beat stuff in cartoon form, a near cartoon that is actually
a photograph was
sent to me by a friend at the University of Louisville
pulled out of the
Utne Reader with a row of bewildered West Point cadets
sitting in class
reading "Howl"! It's not on my
wall - b/c it's in a
box as yet
unpacked from my move.
d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:59:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Times of Disorder
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Oh thats a hoot!
I want to see that one!
>Nancy Brodsky
wrote:
>>
>> Speaking
of cartoons, there was a strip in the Village Voice a couple of
>> weeks
ago by Maakies, in which the best minds of my generation line is
>>
paraphrased and changed to " I saw the best minds of my generation
>>
destroyed by bad poetry". Needless to say, its taped to my wall!
>> ~Nancy
>> speaking
of beat stuff in cartoon form, a near cartoon that is actually
>a photograph
was sent to me by a friend at the University of Louisville
>pulled out of
the Utne Reader with a row of bewildered West Point cadets
>sitting in
class reading "Howl"! It's not
on my wall - b/c it's in a
>box as yet
unpacked from my move.
>
>d
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
legacy@admin.con2.com
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:13:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Perchuk
<legacy@ADMIN.CON2.COM>
Subject: Re: Second thoughts on first exposure
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 01:55 PM
3/15/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>HMMM, my
second thoughts on first exposure. I now
remember that in a
>college
English class we read Ferlinghetti's Coney Island or something
>like
that. The one where he has a carnival
image. I didn't know he was
>a
"beat" poet, and I guess some say he ain't. But that would be my
>first beat
exposure on the works side.
>
>Before that,
I remember reading a story on Kerouac when he died. I
>would say the
article came out, maybe in Rolling Stone in late '69 or
>early
'70. He was drunk and ranting about Viet
Nam and patriotism. I
>remember
thinking he sounded like an ass and wondering why people
>thought he
was a great writer.
>
>A few years
later, I began to seperate the man and his writing.
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
Bentz - How glad
I am that you mentioned this at this time -- ("...I began
to separate the
man from his writing.") This is exactly what I was trying to
explain to Gerry
Nicosia when I criticized his "what if" suppositions a few
days back. I
don't know why he felt that he "couldn't understand where I was
coming
from." You certainly seem to have no problem grasping the concept.
I any case,
thanks. You clarified my position very well indeed.
Jeff Perchuk
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:41:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Jack and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone have
available Burroughs' quote on the "dangers" of
Buddhism. For some reason I was thinking he said
something about
Kerouac and it
was like a warning not to dabble in Buddhism.
I was
unfamiliar with
the quote, have seen it here before and was thinking
maybe it was
relevant to some of the portions of the thread on Kerouac's
practice of
Buddhism. I would appreciate it if one
knows the quote if
they could post
it. Thanks.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:55:29 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Jack and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> Does anyone
have available Burroughs' quote on the "dangers" of
>
Buddhism. For some reason I was thinking
he said something about
> Kerouac and
it was like a warning not to dabble in Buddhism. I was
> unfamiliar
with the quote, have seen it here before and was thinking
> maybe it was
relevant to some of the portions of the thread on Kerouac's
> practice of
Buddhism. I would appreciate it if one
knows the quote if
> they could
post it. Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
i think that the
gist of the quote is that taken to its logical
extension a
buddhist would never leave his/her Orgonne box.
burroughs seemed
to believe in a principle of "FUN" in life which
sometimes gets
lost in the sense of resignation towards life that "some"
buddhists seem to
believe.
i'd like to see
the direct quote too.
d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:32:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Desolation Angels and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I always thought
that one of the saddest expressions of depression was
the ending of
Desolation Angels. Jacks says:
Later I'm back in
New York sitting around with Irwin and Simon and
Raphael and
Lazarus, and now we're famous writers more or less, but they
wonder why I'm so
sunk now, so unexcited as we sit among our published
books and poems,
tho at least, since I live with Memere in a house of
her own miles
from the city, it's a peaceful sorrow. A
peaceful sorrow
at home is the
best I'll ever be able to offer the world, in the end,
and so I told my
Desolation Angels goodbye. A new life
for me.
There are
expressions of his despair in this book:
"... and all
we're doing is fighting to our deaths---
In fact, why do I
fight myself?" pg 67 in my
paperback.
In any event, I
find that this book reported a change that Jack noticed
in himself. One that separated him from his friends and
is described in
Electric Koolaid
Acid Test by Tom Wolfe. It seems to me
that Jack just
said, I give up
and let go to sind into depression.
Still, this book
is one of my favorites by Keouac.
In Ann Charters' biography, I find these
comments:
"His
Buddhism was a tangled and personal matter, but its most immediate
appeal to him was
that it served as a defense and as a philosophic way
of justifying his
suffering to himself." Pgs 190-91.
It always seemed
to me, that for some reason, Kerouac chose to sink into
his own
suffering. Did he? Did he use Buddhism as an excuse or vehicle
to do so? I don't know.
But I thought these ideas might fit into this
thread somewhere.
Take whatever you
want and leave the rest.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:00:52 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Paul Buckberry
<buckb@ZIP.COM.AU>
Organization: Zip
Internet
Subject: Re: Damn good question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think most
would have heard that hoary old chestnut: How many beats
does it take to
change a light-bulb? Answer: There are no answers, only
questions.
Could it be Neal had heard this joke before?
<Always merry
and bright>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:01:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: a correction
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In my post on
"Kerouac's path," I wrongly attributed this poem:
Someday you'll be
lying
there in a nice
trance
and suddenly a
hot
soapy brush will
be
applied to your
face
-It'll be
unwelcome
-someday the
undertaker will
shave you
It is Orizaba 210
Blues, Chorus 2, from Book of Blues, not Mexico City Blues.
Diane
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:19:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Desolation Angels and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> Later I'm
back in New York sitting around with Irwin and Simon and
> Raphael and
Lazarus, and now we're famous writers more or less, but they
> wonder why
I'm so sunk now, so unexcited as we sit among our published
> books and
poems, tho at least, since I live with Memere in a house of
> her own
miles from the city, it's a peaceful sorrow.
A peaceful sorrow
> at home is
the best I'll ever be able to offer the world, in the end,
> and so I
told my Desolation Angels goodbye. A new
life for me.
>
This is one of
the reasons I think Desolation Angels is one of Kerouac's
most important
works. It gives literary evidence of an
important point in
Keoruac's life,
when he visibly turns from the airy, optamistic outlook
coming out of
Dharma Bums and in Book One of DA to the more world-weary,
beleagured
sadness that would become more and more evident with each work
written
afterwards. I think it deserves some
good analysis and
recognition.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:32:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Desolation Angels and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Is there anyone
on the list who might be willing to have a go at reading this
book and
commenting on it the way the list did with Visions of Cody? I think
I am going to
read it again.
Alex Howard
wrote:
> >
> > Later
I'm back in New York sitting around with Irwin and Simon and
> > Raphael
and Lazarus, and now we're famous writers more or less, but they
> > wonder
why I'm so sunk now, so unexcited as we sit among our published
> > books
and poems, tho at least, since I live with Memere in a house of
> > her own
miles from the city, it's a peaceful sorrow.
A peaceful sorrow
> > at home
is the best I'll ever be able to offer the world, in the end,
> > and so
I told my Desolation Angels goodbye. A
new life for me.
> >
>
> This is one
of the reasons I think Desolation Angels is one of Kerouac's
> most
important works. It gives literary
evidence of an important point in
> Keoruac's
life, when he visibly turns from the airy, optamistic outlook
> coming out
of Dharma Bums and in Book One of DA to the more world-weary,
> beleagured
sadness that would become more and more evident with each work
> written
afterwards. I think it deserves some
good analysis and
> recognition.
>
>
------------------
> Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
P.O. Box 12149
>
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586
Boone, NC 28608
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:47:30 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Damn Good Question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Tom Christopher
wrote:
>
> when
burroughs met cassady during his first cross country drive with
> kerouac,
burroughs asked what the point was to cassady's manic rushing
> around.
>
> cassady,
appearently never having posed the question to himself was left
> speechless
>
> the fact
that burroughs would ask that of cassady indicates a division
> of opinion
even then, and maybe such questions are beside the point
paradoxically,
burroughs later came up with talk of stasis-horrors and
travel is
necessary notions. wasn't burroughs
basically a farmer at
this time? something about farming seems to connect one
to a given
place and might
make nomadic migration seem even more meaningless.
>
> it doesn't
seem like there's much of a shared philosophy between between
> these guys,
just more of a general dissatisfaction with the promise of a
> grey flannel
strait jacket
>
> despite the
amount of artistic and intellectual discipline the beats had
> on a
personal level i suspect the answer is 'just goin' but i also think
> it's one o
them questions that no matter how you answer, you'll take the
> other side
soon enough.
>
i don't know that
there is much with regard to shared purpose going on
-- but there
seems to be something underneath linking these figures,
perhaps to a
sense of scene and anti-scene in America at the time.
> David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
> >
> > ----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> > OTR #3:
> > "A
tall, lanky fellow in a gallon hat stopped his car on the wrong side
> > of the
road and came over to us; he looked like a sheriff. We prepared
> > our
stories secretly. He took his time
coming over. 'You boys going get
> > get
somewhere, or just going?' We didn't
understand his question, and
> > it was
a damn good question."
> >
> > Seems
like this is still a damn good question.
What does the Beat
> > Generation
provide us as an answer? Years separate
from the lankly
> >
fellow's question but it still seems worthy of considering. Though it
> > doesn't
come from a scholar, it seems to question the scholarly
> >
underpinnings of studying the Beat Generation.
I don't know that I have
> > a good
answer to the question but look forward to the answers of others.
> >
> > d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:11:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Desolation Angels and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Im game!~Nancy
>Is there
anyone on the list who might be willing to have a go at reading this
>book and
commenting on it the way the list did with Visions of Cody? I think
>I am going to
read it again.
>
>Alex Howard
wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
Later I'm back in New York sitting around with Irwin and Simon and
>> >
Raphael and Lazarus, and now we're famous writers more or less, but they
>> >
wonder why I'm so sunk now, so unexcited as we sit among our published
>> >
books and poems, tho at least, since I live with Memere in a house of
>> > her
own miles from the city, it's a peaceful sorrow. A peaceful sorrow
>> > at
home is the best I'll ever be able to offer the world, in the end,
>> > and
so I told my Desolation Angels goodbye.
A new life for me.
>> >
>>
>> This is
one of the reasons I think Desolation Angels is one of Kerouac's
>> most
important works. It gives literary
evidence of an important point in
>>
Keoruac's life, when he visibly turns from the airy, optamistic outlook
>> coming
out of Dharma Bums and in Book One of DA to the more world-weary,
>>
beleagured sadness that would become more and more evident with each work
>> written
afterwards. I think it deserves some
good analysis and
>>
recognition.
>>
>>
------------------
>> Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>>
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
P.O. Box 12149
>>
http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586
Boone, NC 28608
>
>
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:23:58 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Damn Good Question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Here are a couple
of guys, probably stoned on grass and bennies, confronted
by the keeper of
the order, mostly checking these guys out for what they are
up to. The cues
for questions of cosmic proprotions, are not supplied by the
sheriff, only by
the rich associations and connotations that are all too
common to to the
mind boosted with mind altering substances. In other words
it is maybe a
stoned Kerouac taking the Sheriff's
atrictly down to earth
words for a
cosmic ride. The ride though, has to crash on sober reflection.
I am left with a
possibly boozing sheriff having a somewhat belligerent
proprietary
attitude towards his territory, no philospher cop here directing
cosmic travel.
Kerouac on the
other hand can take anything that he runs into and when he is
high especially,
he can give it a dazzling phantastic twirl that will leave
you awestruck,
but many times the meanings and attributions are word plays
with suggested
meanings that may not hold up when sober or drunk rather than
high on other
kind of drugs.
To me it seems
that what all of these guys had in common was pioneering
variations of the
mind under the influence of different drugs. Ginzberg
stayed in control
more than the others, heroin almost permanently overcame
Burroughs,
Kerouac was fuelled by grass and bennies, felled by alcohol.
Cassady used
bennies to keep energy level and speed to a maximum, but his
love was to use
that energy with a mind elevated by
grass and sexual
extasy. To my
mind Neal was the purest explorer of the state of being high,
the others were
reserving some of their talents and energies to reflect and
to tell the
world about their experiences. Drugs is
what they all had in
common, it seems
to me.
BTW. "left
speechess" is a judgment we supply to fit our preconceptions. I
may fall silent
at times when a question seems best unanswered for many
different
reasons.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thursday,
March 26, 1998 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: Damn
Good Question
>Tom
Christopher wrote:
>>
>> when
burroughs met cassady during his first cross country drive with
>> kerouac,
burroughs asked what the point was to cassady's manic rushing
>> around.
>>
>> cassady,
appearently never having posed the question to himself was left
>>
speechless
>>
>> the fact
that burroughs would ask that of cassady indicates a division
>> of
opinion even then, and maybe such questions are beside the point
>
>paradoxically,
burroughs later came up with talk of stasis-horrors and
>travel is
necessary notions. wasn't burroughs
basically a farmer at
>this
time? something about farming seems to
connect one to a given
>place and
might make nomadic migration seem even more meaningless.
>>
>> it
doesn't seem like there's much of a shared philosophy between between
>> these
guys, just more of a general dissatisfaction with the promise of a
>> grey
flannel strait jacket
>>
>> despite
the amount of artistic and intellectual discipline the beats had
>> on a
personal level i suspect the answer is 'just goin' but i also think
>> it's one
o them questions that no matter how you answer, you'll take the
>> other
side soon enough.
>>
>
>i don't know
that there is much with regard to shared purpose going on
>-- but there
seems to be something underneath linking these figures,
>perhaps to a
sense of scene and anti-scene in America at the time.
>
>> David
Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
>> >
>> >
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>> > OTR
#3:
>> >
"A tall, lanky fellow in a gallon hat stopped his car on the wrong side
>> > of
the road and came over to us; he looked like a sheriff. We prepared
>> > our
stories secretly. He took his time
coming over. 'You boys going
get
>> > get
somewhere, or just going?' We didn't
understand his question, and
>> > it
was a damn good question."
>> >
>> >
Seems like this is still a damn good question.
What does the Beat
>> >
Generation provide us as an answer?
Years separate from the lankly
>> >
fellow's question but it still seems worthy of considering. Though it
>> >
doesn't come from a scholar, it seems to question the scholarly
>> >
underpinnings of studying the Beat Generation.
I don't know that I
have
>> > a
good answer to the question but look forward to the answers of
others.
>> >
>> > d
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:22:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack and Buddhism
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
well now
I have read that qoute- found it in a
book called Big Sky Mind:
buddhism and the
beat generation, edited by one Carole
Toninson, and put out
by Tricycle- who
also put out the Buddhist Review- which by the way- is an
excellent mag for
those interested in Buddhist thought.
as always- Bourroughs was pretty
skeptical of jacks dabbling in
buddhism. And- in
Jack's case- he was right. Because what jack did was dabble-
and not stick with
it- thereby causing the eventual hangups about buddhism and
catholicism that
plagued and tormented him much of his later life.
perhaps therin lies the danger- dont
dabble- commit.
gene
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:12:13 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
Comments: cc:
jgrant@bookzen.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane De Rooy
writes:
Here is more irony: in this forum where people
are always
>asking what
the best books are to read by or about Kerouac, one of the bevy of
>Kerouac
biographers is sitting in our midst. If I say what I believe, that
>MEMORY BABE
is a bad biography of jack, I'm pretty sure I'd be accused of
>making a
personal attack.
I do not care
that Diane or anyone else thinks Memory Babe is a bad book. I
have over a
thousand letters stashed away from people all over the world,
some of the them
among the best writers of our time (National Book Award
winners like
Larry Heinemann and Maxine Hong Kingston, for example), telling
me what a GREAT
book MEMORY BABE is. Last September I
read the WASHINGTON
POST's Kerouac
piece, calling MEMORY BABE the greatest of the Kerouac
biographies. Last December I read Robert Stone in the NEW
YORK TIMES
calling me a
"major critic of the Beat Generation." That's enough for me.
What I do object to is Ms. De Rooy's
use of the old "straw man"
device of
rhetorical attack. All I did was
expression a vision and a
sadness that I
had felt upon reading SOME OF THE DHARMA.
It was not
intended as
literary criticism and hardly as a bashing of Kerouac. Yet Ms.
DeRooy puts all
these supposed words into my mouth. Once
she has created
this straw man,
which bears no resemblance to the real Gerald Nicosia, she
then proceeds to
tear him down.
Consider carefully the implications of
what she says. She implies
that we are only
allowed to express feelings of joy and admiration upon
reading anything
Kerouac wrote. Is that the kind of
openness and honesty
the Beats
promoted--the openness and honesty we love them for? I think not.
That is, in my
opinion, the worst kind of facism, and when it is used to
attack a highly
respected biographer, I think it is quite fair to call it
"bashing."
--Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:56:34 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Damn Good Question
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
David Bruce
Rhaesa wrote:
>
>
paradoxically, burroughs later came up with talk of stasis-horrors and
> travel is
necessary notions. wasn't burroughs
basically a farmer at
> this
time? something about farming seems to
connect one to a given
> place and
might make nomadic migration seem even more meaningless.
yeh...well...we're
talking contradictions in the group, but there's
contradictions in
individuals, too. maybe rootless is a
better word for
the....ah...rootlessness
that they all had. by the time they met,
burroughs had
left home, gone to columbia, had 2 degrees, but never
focused on
anything in the manner men were expected to, and was living
in louisiana, a
gentleman farmer, but still kept moving after that.
cassady by all
accounts was all over the place
>
> i don't know
that there is much with regard to shared purpose going on
> -- but there
seems to be something underneath linking these figures,
> perhaps to a
sense of scene and anti-scene in America at the time.
>
scene and anti
scene kinda embodies the difficulity of the discussion.
yeh, they were
just cruisin fer burgers, and yeh, they were real serious
about writin good
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:10:52 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
there was a
series of paperbacks in the early 1970s called contact, and
they were
reprints from various underground news papers.
one of em had
a long article on
the hog farm.....i'm kinda vague on the specific
contents....i
remember some photos of paul foster's wedding......
tkc
Keith Medline
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am back
from a LOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGG vacation from the list. I had 884
> messages
awaiting me upon my return which hotmail was so kind to tell me
> didn't exist
when I tried to delete them!! That was a
treat...
> Well I have
a huge favor for you trivia buffs and scholarly men to
> ponder....
> Could anyone
tell me any books by, about, with reference to the man
> known as
Hugh Romney aka Wavy Gravy? I am doing
research on this topic
> and I could
really use some help tracking down some sources.
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:31:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 26-Mar-98 11:15:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
gnicosia@earthlink.net
writes:
<< All I
did was expression a vision and a sadness that I had felt upon
reading SOME OF
THE DHARMA. It was not intended as
literary criticism and
hardly as a
bashing of Kerouac. Yet Ms. DeRooy puts
all these supposed words
into my
mouth. >>
Here's what I
wrote:
<<The
"what if" letter draws speciously on an idea with no apparent
foundation. That
is the part that made me think of MEMORY BABE, where the
writer did the
same thing. In both cases, he attempts to create Kerouac out of
some oral or
written history. But he doesn't just allow the words to speak for
themselves.
First, he runs them through the sieve of his own personal
experience and
context.>>
I'm not one of
the people who responded on the subject of "literary
criticism."
There were a couple who did. What I wanted to know was how Gerry
arrived at his
"crazy fantasy" (quoting GN here) as he clearly panned "Some of
the Dharma"
and suggested Kerouac might have had a shot at some kind of long,
stable life if he
hadn't studied Buddhism.
Anyone who reads
Kerouac or studies his life, his activities, knows better
than that. Any
scholar or expert on Kerouac's life would find the utopian
scenario Gerry
posited naive, at best.
<<Ginsberg
commented: "They never understood what he [Jack] was doing, and so
they didn't
follow up on what he was saying. If we don't understand what he
was saying, we
will not be able to inhabit this universe properly."
I was on the verge of making similar
pronouncements about the folly and
stupidity of
these people--who were, rather than seeing the world with
Kerouac's eyes,
having Kerouac see the world through their own eyes--when I
finally had to
admit that I must be doing the same thing myself ... the sad
fact of biography
that none can escape is that we know others at least partly
by imagining what
it would be like for us to be in their place, to inhabit
their skin--but
of course the fit never quite matches.>>
Again, I was
quoting from the Preface to the New Edition of MEMORY BABE just
then, the words
of Gerald Nicosia.
"Folly and
stupidity" are the words he attaches to people who see Kerouac
through their own
filtering system. I wouldn't be so harsh, but there you go.
I see Kerouac for
exactly what he was, as I stated before: a deeply flawed
human being. I
have no need for idyllic imaginings of how things "might have
been,"
because I am realistic enough to know that he lived the life he lived,
and died the
death he did, and that he was well on his way to his premature
death long before
he penned "Some of the Dharma."
I agree with
Gerry when he confesses that "I must be doing the same thing
(having Kerouac
see the world through [his own] eyes)." That's my problem with
MEMORY BABE. For
all his years of research, in the end, it smacks of
autobiography.
I'm waiting for a
truer picture of Kerouac to emerge than all of his
biographers have
yet drawn. In the meantime, I consult the available
biographies and
check all the "facts" and lore they offer. If one biographer
thinks he or she
is a greater expert than the others, he/she must be prepared
to back that up,
not with blurbs on book jackets or favorable reviews, but
with
research-based documentation.
I was just
re-reading Barry Gifford's "Kerouac's Town" this morning, a small
book that came
out in 1973, right after Ann Charters' path-finding biography,
"Kerouac."
In an interview with Stella Kerouac, Gifford notes that in the
first edition of
Charters' book, she claimed that Jack's sister, Nin,
committed
suicide, which upset Gabrielle and Stella. In subsequent editions of
Charters' book,
the cause of Nin's death is attributed to a coronary
occlusion, as is
noted on her death certificate, which Stella produces for
Gifford to see.
If Jack's
survivors hadn't complained, and if people had viewed Charters' book
as gospel, word
for word, we would all be thinking Nin committed suicide
today. The
dissenting voice is important, especially when one is looking at a
biography of a
person who is dead and no longer able to refute what is said
about him or her.
As I stated
before, criticism of Beat books, including biography, is fair game
in this forum,
and my small critique of MEMORY BABE is offered as that, not as
bashing of its
author. I have as much right to express my opinion as does
anyone who
believes the book is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:32:26 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Memory Babe (was Re: straw men and other
rhetorical attacks )
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> > Diane
De Rooy writes:
> > But he doesn't just allow the words to speak
for
> >
themselves. First, he runs them through the sieve of his own personal
> >
experience and context.>>
> Gerald
Nicosia writes:
> What does
Ms. DeRooy mean? Doesn't every
historian, biographer, and
> critic
> (unless he's
producing pure oral history) interpret his data? And
> isn't
> that
interpretation based on the sum of his/her knowledge to date?
>
> Diane De
Rooy writes:
> > ...I
see Kerouac for exactly what he was... That's my problem with
> > MEMORY
BABE. For all his years of research, in the end, it smacks of
> >
autobiography.
>
> Gerald
Nicosia writes:
> Ms. De Rooy
here claims to be the ultimate authority on Kerouac.
> However,
> she gives us
(as usual) no facts to back up this assertion.
She claims
> MEMORY BABE
is my autobiography, rather than Kerouac's biography. >
> Again,
> she gives us
no facts to back this up. On the other
hand, at the back
> of
> MEMORY BABE,
I provide 313 footnotes and 44 small-print pages of >
> detailed
> source notes
for everything I have written about Kerouac.
You'll have to
excuse me for prolonging a discussion that most on the
list would
probably like to see disappear, but Diane De Rooy does make
what I see as a
legitimate point for discussion about "Memory Babe."
Oddly, as this
discussion comes up. I am reading "Memory Babe" While it
is clearly a work
of diligent research and dedication by the author, it
does have some
weaknesses in terms of a literary biography.
A biography
should make the
writer's life come alive and give us insight into how
the works of that
writer might have been influenced by the life that
was lived. The biography should draw material from
diverse sources and
put it all out
there for the reader to draw the conclusions.
The
biographer continually
walks a fine line between presenting the material
and interpreting
the material. What I see as Diane De Rooy's complaint
against
"Memory Babe" is that it, at times, is too subjective, and I
agree with that
assessment. From the beginning of the
book, I have been
constantly
reading what I see as "conclusions" and scrutinizing the notes
at the back of
the book in search of the source on which the conclusion
was based. And many times, I find no footnotes or notes
that help me in
the least. Take for example these two paragraphs from the
first section
of the chapter
entitled, "The Sponsors of Waste" (for which there are six
sources in the
notes and one footnote):
"The
eighteen hours between Uhl's ranch and Chicago were an important
'period' in
Jack's life. Watching the white line of the highway,
following that
thread as it bound together a continent like a modern,
more efficient
river, he listened to more of Neal's history. In Des
Moines they
barely dented a black man's bumper; later they were stopped
by police because
he'd reported that there Cadillac was stolen.
Several
hours later in
mid-Illinois Neal very nearly killed them passing--at
110--a line of
cars on a two-lane bridge in the teeth of an oncoming
semitrailer. Cognizant at last of the razor's edge Neal
kept between
himself and
death, Jack recoiled in terror from the prospect of a shared
extinction. But as Aram Saroyan has pointed out (in an
unpublished
essay, 'The
Driver: Reflections on Jack Kerouac'), the trip's impact on
Jack came from
more than the daring adventures and his new insights into
Neal. Neal's
split-second decisions taught Jack a 'style' of dealing with
reality, which,
however dangerous, achieved increments in consciousness
beyond what other
men could gain from the same experience.
The secret, of course, was that Neal lived
faster than any man Jack had
ever known. Ginsberg, Holmes, and most of his
intellectual friends
'considered'
problems. Neal dealt with them
instantaneously because he
knew the
consequences of delay (especially at 110 miles an hour) could be
worse than
intuition's occasional gaffe."
Up until here are
facts that seem quite appropriately stated and
interpreted a
biographer. What ends this paragraph is
what I deem as the
author's
conclusions that fall into what I see as the very gray area of
overstepping the
bounds of biography with unfootnoted conclusions. It
then reads as
follows:
"Something
died in Jack on that trip. The young Jack, who had compared
Wolfean sentences
to prove he was smarter than the world that had
rejected him, now
rejected his smugness, threw away his smartness, and
answered the
urgencies of both life and art with the sense of the moment.
He would put
himself on the line, as vulnerable in his lines of prose as
Neal on that line
of highway."
The conclusion
that "Jack died on that trip" is a profound one. Where
exactly is the
documentation for that? Saroyan's essay
only seemed to
imply that from
Jack was learning from Neal a new 'style' of living in
the moment, a
change in consciousness. How do we leap
not only to Jack
dying internally
on that trip but to the sense that before, he was
composing Wolfean
sentences to prove that he was "smarter than the
world." If this had been footnoted we would have an
idea of where it
came from;
without them it becomes a imposition of the consciousness of
the biographer
into the text.
I am only citing
this as an example; there is, in fact, throughout
"Memory
Babe" this type of biographer's consciousness coming through.
Ideally, the
reader should be left to draw his/her own conclusions about
this trip, with
even possibly quotations from Jack in "On the Road" about
the
experience. Of this incident, Jack
writes in OTR (p 236), "I
couldn't get it
out of my mind, also, that a famous bop clarinetist had
died in an
Illinois car crash recently, probably on a day like this. I
went to the back
seat again."
Because so much
of "Memory Babe" is based on interviews, I think it
paints a more
subjective portrait of Kerouac than it would if it had
more first-hand
material from Kerouac himself. More
footnoted material
instead of
several pages based on an interview would help us ascertain
fact from
speculation. I hold in high esteem
Richard Ellmann's biography
of James Joyce,
which is about the same amount of pages and has 2700
footnotes
compared to the 313 in "Memory Babe."
I think that
biographical and critical works about an author deserve the
same kind of
scrutiny we give the writer's works. I
would never go so
far as to call
"Memory Babe" autobiography, but I do definitely sense in
many places that
the biographer's interpretation is thrown in, where the
reader should be
led to make an assessment on his/her own.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:41:13 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
> Diane De
Rooy wrote
> But he doesn't just allow the words to speak
for
>
>themselves. First, he runs them through the sieve of his own personal
>
>experience and context.>>
>
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> What does
Ms. DeRooy mean? Doesn't every
historian, biographer, and critic
> (unless he's
producing pure oral history) interpret his data?
<snip>
tkc sez
even oral history
is subject to editorial control and organization
the words don't
always, dont just, speak for themselves
kerouac's words
were chosen for their beauty as words, and often are at
variance with his
behavior. kerouac at times seems totally
oblivious to
his motivations
kerouac had lots
of different friends, famous and obscure who knew him
at different
times
any view of
kerouac by his contempories is indeed filtered through their
perceptions
expectations life experiences etc
all this is going
to be contradictory as a whole, but that makes none of
the parts less
true
kerouac's boyhood
friends have no idea about the complexity of the kid
who left lowell,
and his drinking buddies have no idea of the man who
never left home
both sources need
to be heard for us to understand this failed human who
could write like
an angel on speed
some hammer away
at the obvious, at the famous, at the soap opera or
retreat to the
nostalgic fields of youth
some dig deeper
to the obscure and boring bedrock
the more one
reads the clearer this becomes
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
peent@cyber2.servtech.com
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:59:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>In an
interview with Stella Kerouac, Gifford notes that in the
>first edition
of Charters' book, she claimed that Jack's sister, Nin,
>committed
suicide, which upset Gabrielle and Stella. In subsequent editions of
>Charters'
book, the cause of Nin's death is attributed to a coronary
>occlusion, as
is noted on her death certificate, which Stella produces for
>Gifford to
see.
>
>If Jack's
survivors hadn't complained, and if people had viewed Charters' book
>as gospel,
word for word, we would all be thinking Nin committed suicide
>today. The dissenting
voice is important, especially when one is looking at a
>biography of
a person who is dead and no longer able to refute what is said
>about him or
her.
>Diane De Rooy
Diane, what you
quote above about the death of Nin is an error of fact.
That should
always be corrected. Interpretation of a person's life and work
is another
matter, isn't it? How many errors of fact have you found in
Gerry's book?
Michael
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:13:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: ah hem
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
now that the
estate war is censored, why doesn't someone bring up an old
post and then
someone use it as an excellant excuse to
repeatedly
'review"
memory babe, then someone reponds to that.
Or could we please
discuss something
ELSE than how someone "feels' before we lose this
list. can't we give it a rest.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
going nuts here.
watching
patricia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:19:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: QNofMETH <QNofMETH@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ah hem
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
yhea
true....maybe ginsberg....it seems like this list should be renamed "Mad
psyshadelic
Kerouac reflections"
And the beat goes
on.
Meth
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx02.together.net id
CAA05146
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:24:40 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's path
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Diane De
Rooy wrote:
> A thing I
sense about Kerouac is his belief and simultaneous rejection
> of the
> Christian concept of predestination. When two
forces collide like
> that, I always think of Zen, which always makes me
think of Buddhism,
> which leads
me to understand Kerouac's search for
answers there, and
> his
brilliant ability to
> melt the two into a unique spiritual alloy
familiar to many who
> struggle and
> seek.
>
> E. M.
Forster believed in predestination, but believed people could
> fight it,
> "wriggling... against it...and in the
whole universe the only really
> interesting
> movement is this wriggle." Jack
wriggled, without a doubt, but in the
> end, he
> went down the path he learned at the age of
four with the death of > Gerard: We
> are born to die.
Thanks for taking
the time to compile the various quotes.
I would agree
that they illuminate
Kerouac's path. I also find it
interesting that
about half of
them deal with death. Does this mean
that Kerouac saw
death as his
greatest limitation? It certainly
defined his path, and
eventually shaded
all of his thought. I also found interesting
your
comments about
struggling against predestination and Jack's "wriggling"
against it. However, I don't see predestination as a
typically Christian
idea; in fact, I
think the Catholic church puts forth that we are, in
fact, not predistined
to a certain path but that our path is totally one
of free
will. I do, however also see in Kerouac
the "simultaneous belief
and
rejection" of the idea of fate. How
free we are has a lot to do with
our ability at
self-analysis, and I would still hold that one of
Kerouac's
limitations was his inability to see where he was coming from
and where he was
going. He was caught in the emotional
immediacy of each
moment. As you say, "In the end he went down the
path he learned at the
age of four with
the death of Gerard." But the thing
is, this idea of
death as a
monster that takes all of us, wasn't the way he saw Gerard
looking at
death. "We are born to die"
which includes life as a
wonderful, fully
alive, worthwhile experience developed into "why live if
we are going to
die," which is itself limitation.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:25:32 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> That is, in
my opinion, the worst kind of facism, and when it is used to
> attack a
highly respected biographer, I think it is quite fair to call it
>
"bashing."
> --Gerald Nicosia
I'm not qualified
to get into the literary details of this matter, but i
would say that
the fallacy of appeal to authority is as prevalent as the
fallacy of the
straw person in some of these threads.
dbr
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:38:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Bruce Rhaesa
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
Subject: Re: Damn Good Question
Comments: To:
Michael Skau <mskau@cwis.unomaha.edu>
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Michael Skau
wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25
Mar 1998, Michael Skau wrote:
>
> > The
interesting point of this passage is that it poses the alternatives of
> > process
or product. Perhaps the answer to the man's question lies in the
> > title
of the novel--_On the Road_ (not Barth's _The End of the Road_).
> >
Cordially,
> > Mike
Skau
> >
> > On Tue,
24 Mar 1998, David Bruce Rhaesa wrote:
> >
> > >
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > >
OTR #3:
> > >
"A tall, lanky fellow in a gallon hat stopped his car on the wrong side
> > > of
the road and came over to us; he looked like a sheriff. We prepared
> > >
our stories secretly. He took his time
coming over. 'You boys going get
> > >
get somewhere, or just going?' We didn't
understand his question, and
> > > it
was a damn good question."
> > >
> > >
Seems like this is still a damn good question.
What does the Beat
> > >
Generation provide us as an answer?
Years separate from the lankly
> > >
fellow's question but it still seems worthy of considering. Though it
> > >
doesn't come from a scholar, it seems to question the scholarly
> > >
underpinnings of studying the Beat Generation.
I don't know that I have
> > > a
good answer to the question but look forward to the answers of others.
> > >
> > > d
> > >
> >
>
>process/product makes some sense to me.
this could fit, i think, with
some of what i'm
trying to say about scene as the force motivating the
connection
between the various beats -- rather than purpose or product.
the scene at a
close focus is best described, perhaps, in Leon's post
concerning the
relevance of intoxicants and the specific scene - and
Leon makes the
vision of sheriff so clear that i could hear clapton
singing I shot
the sheriff in my mind - the grand irony being that the
guy in the gallon
hat was not THE MAN but a Carnival guy - as far from
the
establishment, perhaps, as one could find.
At a different
focus the lens includes the consciousness of the
intoxicated but
the entire scene of America expressed in so much of beat
literature that
voices the disaffections which motivate consciousness
expansion as a solution
or an escape from the larger cultural scene.
>From this
circumference, the delusion of the intoxicants in the damn
good question
scene are filtered into the disillusion and disaffection
where this
process that you mention becomes more important than the
products
themselves.
I find this
interesting and it is a testament to the sociological
significance of
Kerouac and the other beats that textual examination can
take one's mind
both into the scene so vividly as described by Leon and
so far out into
socio-cultural studies as Michael has suggested sending
my brain on a
spin in that direction.
d
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:53:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 26-Mar-98 2:04:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, Michael writes:
<< Interpretation of a person's life and work is
another matter, isn't it?
How many errors
of fact have you found in Gerry's book? >>
I'm not entirely
sure what you're saying here, Michael. My criticism of MEMORY
BABE is based on
several things, including factual errors. But the thing I
find most
disturbing about it is Gerry's general characterizing of Jack and
his
personality--his interpretations.
I have talked to
several people Gerry interviewed and seen some of the letters
Gerry used to
write his book. The more I checked his sources, the more his
interpretation
came into question. I've actually been debating, for about the
last six months,
writing a rebuttal of some sort about this book. Since I'm
overloaded with
projects right now, it's a low, but important, priority for
me.
Rather than start
an analysis on Beat-L that probably needs a more formal
setting, what I
think would be best would be for me to accomplish this task
and publish it,
either on the Internet, or in some book form.
I certainly don't
wish to contribute to any acrimony here. I try to word my
posts calmly and
rationally. But given the history of the last year, it may
sadly be true
that we can discuss anything we want on Beat-L... except Gerry
Nicosia and his
work.
But to be
perfectly fair (not directed at you, Michael), it really seems
pathetic that
people can use Beat-L to post tales of their love life, family
issues, poetry,
self-promotion and personal spasms of all stripes, but at the
slightest whiff
of conflict or disagreement, however valid, enlightening, or
necessary, those
people complain the loudest.
I do believe I've
said everything I need to say for the time being.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:20:10 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 04:25 PM
3/26/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>>
>> That is,
in my opinion, the worst kind of facism, and when it is used to
>> attack a
highly respected biographer, I think it is quite fair to call it
>>
"bashing."
>> --Gerald Nicosia
>
>I'm not
qualified to get into the literary details of this matter, but i
>would say
that the fallacy of appeal to authority is as prevalent as the
>fallacy of
the straw person in some of these threads.
>
>dbr
>
Dave, are you
saying, along with Diane, that if I read something of Kerouac
and it depresses
me, I shouldn't be allowed to say so here, without having
my whole life's
work damned?
--Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:12:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Diane Di Prima reading
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hey y'all. Just
wanted to drop you a line, because Diane DiPrima and some
other woman are
going to be reading at the Walt Whitman Center (or
somethinglike
that) in Camden NJ this Sunday (the 29th) at 2:30 pm. So if
anyone lives in
the area/ is interested in going, you can write me and I'll
send the few meager
details that I have. (There's a listing for it in the City
Paper also.) Me-
I'm definitely going to try to be there. Of course I'll let
you all know how
wonderful it is! :)
--Stephanie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:29:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i can just see
bill reaching for his antacids as he changes us back to a
moderated
list.....
sigh,
aeronwy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[35.10.20.31]
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:33:32 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Keith Medline
<mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello,
I am back from a
LOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGG vacation from the list.
I had 884
messages awaiting
me upon my return which hotmail was so kind to tell me
didn't exist when
I tried to delete them!! That was a
treat...
Well I have a
huge favor for you trivia buffs and scholarly men to
ponder....
Could anyone tell
me any books by, about, with reference to the man
known as Hugh
Romney aka Wavy Gravy? I am doing
research on this topic
and I could really
use some help tracking down some sources.
PS. My Professor is the coolest Professor on the
MSU faculty. He is
God among men
teaching great works such as Dharma Bums and Minor
Characters. He deserves a compliment for his
efforts! So just write a
nice message
about him and I'm sure he'll get it...
;)
Also could you
please keep your responces on a back channel as my
hotmail account
takes 10 minutes to load!!! Please send
responses here
mailto:medlinke@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:58:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: JK/AG Memorial
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
For those of you
in the NYC area, there will be an JK/AG memorial in
Queens, this
saturday night. The vitals:Stonewall and sons, 33-18 Broadway,
Astoria, call Tom
Kelley for info or if you would like to read:718.204.5774
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:12:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Diane De Rooy
writes:
But he doesn't just allow the words to speak for
>themselves.
First, he runs them through the sieve of his own personal
>experience
and context.>>
What does Ms.
DeRooy mean? Doesn't every historian,
biographer, and critic
(unless he's
producing pure oral history) interpret his data? And isn't
that
interpretation based on the sum of his/her knowledge to date?
... he clearly
panned "Some of
>the
Dharma" and suggested Kerouac might have had a shot at some kind of long,
>stable life
if he hadn't studied Buddhism.
This is pure
DeRooy--totally unsubstantiated assertion.
How did I "pan" the
book? I've reviewed books for just about every
major paper in the country.
I know what it is
to pan a book. A pan tells you that a
book is trash, not
worth
reading. I never said SOME OF THE DHARMA
was worthless. Indeed, it's
a fascinating
look at the workings of Kerouac's mind, and certainly has its
share of
brilliant insights. But I also saw
Kerouac doing a lot of Buddhist
double-talk,
using lots of exotic Asian vocabulary to convince himself that
his suffering
wasn't real, and then blaming it all on women for tempting him
to sex and for
making babies. If you read carefully,
you'll see he alludes
over and over to
Joan Haverty's arrest warrant for his non-support of child,
and his fear that
he's going to go to jail. The fact that
no real Buddhist
enlightenment was
going on in these pages is amply demonstrated by the
terribly
unbalanced life that followed it, leading to his early death at age
47. To look at what Kerouac is saying and to say
that there is a substratum
of self-delusion
in the book is hardly a "pan" by anyone's standards.
If Diane read carefully before opening
her mouth, she would see that
I said "if
Kerouac gave up his particular negative Buddhist philosophy."
That's a far cry
from saying that Buddhism killed him. I
also explain
further that I
mean "what if he tried to give up booze, developed a stable
match with Helen
[or any other woman for that matter] and eventually got
married?" The vision I had of a happy Kerouac at his
40th wedding
anniversary was
just that--a vision. It was personal, I
was sharing it, for
what it was
worth; it was not pretending to be a biographical insight.
...I see Kerouac
for exactly what he was... That's my problem with
>MEMORY BABE.
For all his years of research, in the end, it smacks of
>autobiography.
Ms. De Rooy here
claims to be the ultimate authority on Kerouac.
However,
she gives us (as
usual) no facts to back up this assertion.
She claims
MEMORY BABE is my
autobiography, rather than Kerouac's biography.
Again,
she gives us no
facts to back this up. On the other
hand, at the back of
MEMORY BABE, I
provide 313 footnotes and 44 small-print pages of detailed
source notes for
everything I have written about Kerouac.
... If one
biographer
>thinks he or
she is a greater expert than the others, he/she must be prepared
>to back that
up, not with blurbs on book jackets or favorable reviews, but
>with
research-based documentation.
Try reading the
footnotes and source notes, Diane. Not
only did I list my
sources, I placed
all of this material in the University of Massachusetts,
Lowell, so that
other scholars could go and check on the source material
from which I drew
my narrative. This material was available
until closed
because of John
Sampas's threats in June, 1995. If I win
my legal case, for
which I am still
raising funds (which you claim is an act of "fraud," again
without
substantiation) then this material will be available once again.
... The dissenting
voice is important... criticism of Beat books, including
biography, is
fair game
>in this
forum, and my small critique of MEMORY BABE is offered as that, not as
>bashing of
its author.
Unsubstantiated
charges of this gravity--that I invented a biography and
pawned it off as
a true effort--indeed constitute bashing.
If you can
substantiate
these charges, then by all means do so.
But thus far you have
failed to
substantiate these or any of the other host of charges--perjury,
fraud, selling
stolen documents, etc.--which you printed about me on your
web page. I have even dared you: print here on the Beat
List a letter from
U Mass, Lowell
librarian Martha Mayo, whom you claim to be on friendly terms
with. Please have her list all the documents from
Columbia University and
the New York
Public Library which you claim are illegally in my archive at U
Mass, Lowell.
You will not print such a letter, and
Martha Mayo (if she cares at
all about
perjuring herself) will not write such a letter, because such
documents do not
exist. Your charge is simply a lie--as
is so much of what
you write about
me--and that is clearly "bashing," not a "dissenting voice"
or a fair
"critique."
-- Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:12:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Desolation Angels and peace
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
My word is
Peace. I hope that it will spread
through the list. I don't
care who wins, I
would just like to keep the list.
Nancy responded
to my question. Is anyone else in a
possible
exploration of
Desolation Angels. I am going to read it
again
regardless. But I thought it might be good way to try and
settle the
list in to a more
positive vibe. There is a balance you
can find if you
will let some of
this pass. Collect her posts for a day
when they
become of use.
You just can't
police it all.
As far as Bill,
goes, I hope that you and he can reach some accord as I
would like for
the list to continue unmoderated.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:43:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I could be wrong
but isnt Wavy Gravy mentioned in "The Electric KoolAid
Acid Test"?
Or no? Anyway, Wavy Gravy ice cream is very good, which makes
Ben&Jerry's
very very beat! :)
~Nancy
>Could anyone
tell me any books by, about, with reference to the man
>known as Hugh
Romney aka Wavy Gravy? I am doing
research on this topic
>and I could
really use some help tracking down some sources.
>
>PS. My Professor is the coolest Professor on the
MSU faculty. He is
>God among men
teaching great works such as Dharma Bums and Minor
>Characters. He deserves a compliment for his
efforts! So just write a
>nice message
about him and I'm sure he'll get it...
;)
>
>Also could
you please keep your responces on a back channel as my
>hotmail
account takes 10 minutes to load!!!
Please send responses here
>mailto:medlinke@hotmail.com
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:21:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Desolation Angels
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have my old
paperback out. It is A Wideview/Perigee
Book, published
in 1980. The book says it is the First Perigee
Printing. It does not
contain the
Forward that Diane Carter mentioned in her post, thought I
wish it did.
Well, I am off
into the void that is Mt. Hozomeen. Come
on if any of
you care to check
it out. Maybe we could find Desolation
Row and Bob
Dylan in here
somewhere. I am looking to see if this
work holds up to
my fond memories
of its first two readings from years ago.
Take care to all.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:41:13 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe (was Re: straw men and
other rhetorical attacks )
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> >>
> Diane De Rooy writes:
>
> >
>
>"Something died in Jack on that trip. The young Jack, who had compared
> >Wolfean
sentences to prove he was smarter than the world that had
> >rejected
him, now rejected his smugness, threw away his smartness, and
> >answered
the urgencies of both life and art with the sense of the moment.
> >He would
put himself on the line, as vulnerable in his lines of prose as
> >Neal on
that line of highway."
> >
> >The
conclusion that "Jack died on that trip" is a profound one.
>
> Something
died in Jack is very different than "Jack died on that trip".
> In
> this
criticism you are not relating Nicosia text accurately.
I apologize for
the textual inaccuracy. I mean to type
"something died
in Jack on that
trip" not "Jack died on that trip.
My argument, however,
remains the same.
DC
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 00:25:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>From the new
"Welcome to Beat-L" message:
<<Discussions
will often lead to disagreements but rebuttals to another's
postings or
beliefs should always be made in a rational, logical, and mature
manner. Insults,
accusations, disparaging remarks, character assassinations,
and ad hominum
attacks will not be tolerated. Everyone on the list will be
expected to treat
one another with respect and civility.>>
Conflict in
discussion is a part of life, just as conflict was a huge part of
Jack's life. I have
said nothing that's outside the scope outlined above.
Discussing a book
and challenging the premise of the writer (especially a
biographer, or
someone who claims expertise in any field) is common in all
educational and
intellectual settings. Of course, it's rare that critiques
become
interactive with the author of the disputed work or theory, as this one
on Beat-L has.
I did not see
anything in the new welcome message that indicated Beat-L would
ever be a
moderated list, so I don't think you need to worry about that.
If I'm outside
the scope, I expect Bill Gargan will let me know.
More from the
Welcome message:
<<Finally,
make sure the subject of the post is clearly indicated in the
subject line.
Those uninterested in that subject can delete it without reading
it.>>
If discussing a
Kerouac biography is not appropriate for Beat-L, then it would
not be a forum
that would be productive for me. But I believe it IS
appropriate, and
haven't heard 261 objections to it--just 4 or 5, which hardly
represents
consensus on this list.
I think terms
like "nutty" and "fascist" are intended to be insulting,
and
words like
"attack" and "bash" are emotionally loaded and irrational.
I don't
like these terms
when directed at me, but this rhetoric underscores and lends
credence to my
beliefs about Gerry's scholarship and interpretations of
Kerouac.
But I would
voluntarily sign off the list if I had somehow misinterpreted what
is and what is
not appropriate for discussion here, or if it turned out I was
in the company of
people who oppose dissent. I don't think that's the case,
and I sure hope
not.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:56:07 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
At 05:33 PM
3/26/98 PST, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am back
from a LOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGG vacation from the list. I had 884
>messages
awaiting me upon my return which hotmail was so kind to tell me
>didn't exist
when I tried to delete them!! That was a
treat...
>Well I have a
huge favor for you trivia buffs and scholarly men to
>ponder....
>Could anyone
tell me any books by, about, with reference to the man
>known as Hugh
Romney aka Wavy Gravy? I am doing
research on this topic
>and I could
really use some help tracking down some sources.
Hugh Romney's
poetry was first published in Elias Wilentz's and Fred
McDarrah's book
THE BEAT SCENE in about 1960. I believe
that book was
reissued
recently. He then became a prankster and
changed his name to Wavy
Gravy, and as far
as I know, has stopped writing poetry.
He was quite
prominent on
stage at Woodstock in 1968 and is an MC at many Beat related
and Grateful Dead
musical events in the Bay Area, often in his clown suit.
He has spent the
last several years raising money to save the rainforests
and for other
good ecological causes. A very
good-hearted individual who
seems to be
carrying on the Sixties' quest for love and peace in a genuine
way. But no longer a literary figure, to the best
of my knowledge.
--Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:00:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tread37 <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Desolation Angels and peace
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
i'm in! the kerouac/ginsberg tutorial carly and i are
running is reading
Desolation Angels
as we speak, and it would be nice to discuss it on the list
and get some
input. great idea!
~jenn:o)
In a message
dated 98-03-26 21:10:09 EST, you write:
<< Nancy
responded to my question. Is anyone else
in a possible
exploration of Desolation Angels. I am going to read it again
regardless.
But I thought it might be good way to try and settle the
list in to a more positive vibe. There is a balance you can find if you
will let some of this pass. Collect her posts for a day when they
become of use. >>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:02:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tread37 <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
there are tiny
phudge phish in it. and caramel, i
think. good stuff. wooo!
go ben and jerry!
:o)
In a message
dated 98-03-26 21:44:24 EST, you write:
<<Anyway,
Wavy Gravy ice cream is very good, which makes
Ben&Jerry's very very beat! :) >>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:14:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tread37 <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
wait, that's
phish food that is thinking of (hence the fudge phish). wavy
gravy? never tried it. could anyone tell me what's in it?
~jenn:o)
sorry, guys. it's been a long day...:oP
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:31:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: What if...? & "Some
of.." as Bible
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
The Reverend
Edington writes:
>While Gerry's
original post on the "If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism" issue raised
>an intriguing
question, it was, as I read it, grounded on a false premise;
>namely that
Buddhism itself was somehow at the root of JK's conflicted,
>convoluted,
and at times misogynistic attitudes toward women--and that if he'd
>given up
Buddhism somewhere back in the mid-1950's then he would have also
>shucked off
these attitudes, entered into a longlasting and stable marriage,
>and would be
enjoying grandparenthood today. That's a hell of a lot more than
>I can swallow
for a variety of reasons.
Interesting that here we have another
person, the Reverend Edington,
who has been intiminately
associating with John Sampas for the past two or
three years,
trying to get Sampas to sponsor his book on the Kerouac's in
Nashua, putting
the exact same words in my mouth as Ms. Diane De Rooy, who
is also currently
trying to get a career boost from John Sampas.
So I am
caught in the
same kind of crossfire I was caught in less than a year ago
from Phil Chaput
and Paul Maher, who were also deeply involved in business
dealings
with--guess who?--Mr. John Sampas. This
amazing coincidence, if it
is indeed a
coincidence, simply defies the law of averages.
Yes, I used the subject heading
"If Kerouac gave up Buddhism."
That's because
you try to clue readers in to your subject in four or five
words--all they
can view in their little box. But
anybody who read my post
knows that I
elaborated that notion in terms of "What if Jack gave up his
particular
negative Buddhist philosophy" and combined that with a vision of
his giving up his
entire negative lifestyle, the drinking to sickness, the
anger and
rejection of women, etc. I suggested
that maybe Jack's Buddhism
wasn't what most
Buddhists intended. Even Gary Snyder
felt Jack's personal
problems, esp.
his drinking and difficulties with women, got in the way of a
true
understanding of Buddhism. Nowhere in
that post did I say that
"Buddhism
was at the root of JK's conflicted attitudes toward women."
I am being accused by both Ms. DeRooy
and Reverend Edington of a
superficial
knowledge of Kerouac. I spent six years
researching Kerouac's
life and work,
spent probably a thousand hours or more in ten different
libraries around
the country. I wonder how much time Ms
DeRooy and Reverend
Edington have
spent? I read over 2,000 letters by
Kerouac and I copied in
hand, word for word,
his entire ON THE ROAD journal of 1948-1949 at the
Humanities
Resource Center in Austin. Does that not
give me some
perspective on
Kerouac's life? And I tell you that what
I saw very clearly
was a great
darkening in terms of mood and cynicism after 1950, after the
failure of THE
TOWN AND THE CITY, after a second failed marriage, after the
cracks began in
his friendship with both Cassady's. By
1953-1954, when Jack
found Buddhism,
he was in complete poverty; his family, esp. his sister and
her husband, were
calling him a bum, he had abandoned a daughter, and he was
about to be
hounded by police for child support. His
anger and sense of
futility were
mounting, and the way he read Buddhism gave him some comfort,
and also a way to
ignore some of the horrors that were happening to him. I
do not say that
he completely missed the point, as he certainly had some
intuitive sense
of it, esp. in terms of the dreamlike nature of reality and
the importance of
confronting death, but he also was coloring a lot of these
scriptures with
his own personal problems, which neither Buddhism nor
Christianity
could resolve for him.
That was all I was trying to say in my
post, as well as to express a
profound sadness
at the way life pulled Jack Kerouac under, and nothing, no
religion, no
woman, was able to lift him up.
I would suggest that to get from that
place to people accusing me of
bashing Kerouac
and panning his writings is a bit of logic so tortuous that
one had better
look for a hidden agenda. And I would
suggest that the
connection to Mr.
John Sampas, whose financial empire is threatened by my
late friend Jan
Kerouac's lawsuit, is at the heart of that agenda.
So I see a dark side to Jack Kerouac,
and I see its prominence
coinciding
largely with his pursuit of Buddhist studies.
Not that one
caused the
other. But that one gave him an affinity
for the other. Is this
truly to
" try to put him in a box based on a
certain kind of reading of certain
>selected
portions of his writings" and "to select out certain passages from
"Some of the
Dharma" which supposedly prove" my conclusions
as the Reverend
Edington claims?
Could the good Reverend Edington be
thinking more of the eyes of Mr.
Sampas, as he
scans the Beat List each day, than of what I actually said?
-- Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:34:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Shasheblu <Shasheblu@AOL.COM>
Subject: beat ice cream
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I think that's
Phish ice cream you're describing
--Sharon, who
tried Phish ice cream for the first time a week ago
Tread37 wrote:
there are tiny
phudge phish in it. and caramel, i
think. good stuff. wooo!
go ben and jerry!
:o)
in response to
Nancy:
<<Anyway,
Wavy Gravy ice cream is very good, which makes
Ben&Jerry's very very beat! :) >>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:39:34 -0800
Reply-To: ninmar@mindspring.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Johnson <ninmar@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Unsubstantiated
charges of this gravity--that I invented a biography and
pawned it off as
a true effort--indeed constitute bashing.
If you can
substantiate
these charges, then by all means do so.
But thus far you
have
failed to
substantiate these or any of the other host of
charges--perjury,
fraud, selling
stolen documents, etc.--which you printed about me on
your
web page. I have even dared you: print here on the Beat
List a letter
from
U Mass, Lowell
librarian Martha Mayo, whom you claim to be on friendly
terms
with. Please have her list all the documents from
Columbia University
and
the New York
Public Library which you claim are illegally in my archive
at U
Mass, Lowell.
You will not print such a letter, and
Martha Mayo (if she cares
at
all about
perjuring herself) will not write such a letter, because such
documents do not
exist. Your charge is simply a lie--as
is so much of
what
you write about
me--and that is clearly "bashing," not a "dissenting
voice"
or a fair
"critique."
-- Gerald Nicosia
What is
this--People's Court? A plague on both
your houses. Please
back-channel this
bullshit. Thank you, Mark j
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:56:04 -0500
Reply-To: cmdumond@ehc.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Chris Dumond <cmdumond@EHC.EDU>
Subject: killing mice and rolling with airforce
stationary
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I'm always up for
a reading of Desolation Angels. I think
this is a
good idea,
Bentz. The only thing that bothered me
about the VoC
discussions were
that everyone seemed to be in a different place. Any
ideas how we
could help this? I'm sure there are some
who are
interested, and
have not read the book and who wants to spoil it for
them??
As a question,
are there any of you in the Washington, DC area out
there?
Chris
--
"~God is not
outside us but is just us, the living and the dead, the
neverlived and
neverdied. That we should only learn it now, is supreme
reality, it was
written a long time ago in the archives of the universal
mind, it is
already done, there's no more to do."
~Jack Kerouac
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:37:43 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Memory Babe (was Re: straw men and
other rhetorical attacks )
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>> >
Diane De Rooy writes:
>
>"Something
died in Jack on that trip. The young Jack, who had compared
>Wolfean
sentences to prove he was smarter than the world that had
>rejected him,
now rejected his smugness, threw away his smartness, and
>answered the
urgencies of both life and art with the sense of the moment.
>He would put
himself on the line, as vulnerable in his lines of prose as
>Neal on that
line of highway."
>
>The
conclusion that "Jack died on that trip" is a profound one.
Something died in
Jack is very different than "Jack died on that trip". In
this criticism
you are not relating Nicosia text accurately.
The passage is
straightforward in saying Kerouac began his experimentation
and risks to
develop his writing beyond the traditional success he had all
ready had with
Town and the City.
Whether or not
this trip was the instigation for kerouac's new approach I
cannot argue one
way or the other because I would have no idea.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 00:19:50 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hugh Romney
changed his name to Wavy Gravy as a statement of how to respond
to the rousting
by rednecks at events the hog farmers put on on their way
through the
Southern States. The idea was to offer no resistance was a
powerful tool to
survive and dissipate the energies of a stampede, the shape
of delicious
gravy that flows from under anything, or something like that.
When he was explaining
it to me I was a little skeptical, but it was my
understanding
that was limited, wavy gravy and his efforts sure are
surviving better
than most.
I wholeheartedly
agree that Wavy is a nice guy. In my book he is the nicest
of all the
leaders who emerged in the sixties that I had gotten to know. And
not because of
his accomplishments. He is just a real good guy, a warm
generous soul
full of warmth and fun.
He formed the Hog
Farm community, the extremely successful keepers of the
flame, who also conceived and still nurture the
Rainbow gathering and a
creative
community in Northern California, where creativity is nurtured. His
intention
starting the Hog farmers commune was to follow up on Kesey's bus
trips. At least
that is what I remember him trying to do in his
conversations
with me in those days. Before that he was a very talented
member of the
Committee, a San Francisco comedy group, where he also
exhibited
collages.
A multi talented
visionary artist he is, but I don't recall him being very
much associated
with beats before the sixties. His writing prose started I
believe when he
was publishing accounts ot the Hog Farmers'
trips,
including running
Pegassus (a pig) for President one year.
In the early
nineties he wrote
a book of stories about their activities and lives.
He also is
prominent in the Woodstock film. He organized the clinics there
for people who
suffered bad trips. For a number of years he played the role
of a clown in the
Bay Area entertaining children in hospitals, and was a
fixture, MC in
many charity and future looking events.
Wavy Gravy is a
man of great talent, humor and totally devoted to do good
deeds. He was
(is?) a member of the Board of a charitable foundation with
Baba Ram Das that
provides medical help for the blind in Nepal, I believe.
He was (is? Haven't seen or heard much about
himsince the early nineties.)
He definitely
deserves to be an honorary beat, but his career was in
entertainment,
not in writing. He played a major part in the shaping of the
goodness, the fun
and soul of the sixties, from the beginning days of the
hippy movemnent.
Still, I don't
know if you could associate him with the beats. I would even
imagine that Jack
Kerouac might have considered him one of the crazies the
Psychedelic
weirdos. A stoner leaning to grass and acid not speed or booze.
leon
From: Tread37
<Tread37@AOL.COM>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thursday,
March 26, 1998 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: Wavy
Gravy???
>wait, that's
phish food that is thinking of (hence the fudge phish). wavy
>gravy? never tried it. could anyone tell me what's in it?
>~jenn:o)
>
>sorry,
guys. it's been a long day...:oP
>
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:26:03 +0000
Reply-To: tkc@zipcon.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tom Christopher <tkc@ZIPCON.COM>
Organization: art
language wholsale retail
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
who was the
invisible cabaret?
wasn't it hugh
romney, timy tim, and.......
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Originating-IP:
[149.151.190.53]
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 01:58:28 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Al Min <babygutsoup@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
You go Mr. MSU
professor type person. we need more
people like you
teaching.
Al
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:30:33 -0500
Reply-To: cosmicat@erols.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Nally
<cosmicat@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Wavy Gravy???
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Keith Medline
wrote:
> Could anyone
tell me any books by, about, with reference to the man
> known as
Hugh Romney aka Wavy Gravy? I am doing
research on this topic
> and I could
really use some help tracking down some sources.
>
> Check out
The Hog Farm and Friends. Link Books, NY, 1974. Quick Fox
distributed. Rick Griffin cover.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
rastous@pop.auslink.net
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:11:50 +1030
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rastous El Aurance
<rastous@AUSLINK.NET>
Subject: Something's Gotta Give!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Morning,
everyone!
Just a quick note
to say that little old Adelaide, South Australia is about
to launch its own
Beat Poetry RealAudio Broadcasts about Due South....
We're going to be
discussing Burroughs, Ginsberg and Ol' Jack, and playing
and reading Beat
poetry and sound grabs, from April 9th, at 1130 GMT (2130
Adelaide, South
Australia Time) - and we want your input, and comments!
So, please email
us at
rastous@auslink.net
Or telephone us
on +61 8 8303 50000
Because a
psychotic is just a guy who woke up...
We hope to hear
from you soon,
Thank you,
Stuart Beaton
Edito/Producer-Presenter
Liquid Review Web
Site & "Something's Gotta Give" at Radio 5UV
For further
examples of my work, check out Liquid Review at:
http://www.auslink.net/~rastous/index.htm
And catch me in
Real Audio on Something's Gotta Give:
http://www.auslink.net/~rastous/some.htm
on April 9, 1130 GMT.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
rastous@pop.auslink.net
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:17:07 +1030
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rastous El Aurance
<rastous@AUSLINK.NET>
Subject: Something's Gotta Give!OOOPS!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Damn, I sent this
out before looking at it!
Morning,
everyone!
Just a quick note
to say that little old Adelaide, South Australia is about
to launch its own
Beat Poetry RealAudio Broadcasts....
We're going to be
discussing Burroughs, Ginsberg and Ol' Jack, and playing
and reading Beat
poetry and sound grabs, from April 9th, at 1130 GMT (2130
Adelaide, South
Australia Time) - and we want your input, and comments!
So, please email
us at
rastous@auslink.net
Or telephone us
on +61 8 8303 50000
Because a
psychotic is just a guy who woke up...
We hope to hear
from you soon,
Thank you,
Stuart Beaton
Edito/Producer-Presenter
Liquid Review Web
Site & "Something's Gotta Give" at Radio 5UV
For further
examples of my work, check out Liquid Review at:
http://www.auslink.net/~rastous/index.htm
And catch me in
Real Audio on Something's Gotta Give:
http://www.auslink.net/~rastous/some.htm
on April 9, 1130 GMT.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:06:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nancy Brodsky
<nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>
Subject: desolation or peace
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Yes, I am
definetely up for a book discussion about DA. I could use another
read of it. My
suggestion is to respond to the book as you read it and
eventually,
others on the list will catch up to where the others are at and
we will all learn
a lot, Im sure! Happy reading.
Speaking of
books, I just finished Pic and I liked it. It was a change of
pace from
Kerouac's usual writing but I wonder if people misconstrued his
use of the
carolina dialect as something racial? I confess, I thought at
first, "Why
is this white guy trying to sound like a black kid?", and then
I realized that
he wasnt, he was trying to sound like a North Carolinan
kid. Correct me
if Im wrong, but didnt Kerouac spend part of his life in
North Carolina or
am I thinking of someone else?
~Nancy
>Nancy
responded to my question. Is anyone else
in a possible
>exploration
of Desolation Angels. I am going to read
it again
>regardless. But I thought it might be good way to try and
settle the
>list in to a
more positive vibe.
***I'm in the
milk and the milk's in me. God Bless Milk and God Bless
ME!--In the Night
Kitchen by Maurice Sendak***
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:47:38 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<jensm@MOVING-PEOPLE.NET>
Subject: German language radio play version of
"On the Road" - preview
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hello all on
BEAT-L,
As I've promised,
I will write a review on a German language radio play
based on the
brand-new German translation of Kerouac's "On the Road". To
keep myself busy
and from staring outta my window all day long :), I'll
now send you the
translation of a newspaper article about this radio
play, which was
published the morning before the actual broadcast.
I hope my translation
is not too clumsy. :)
You'll read more
about it tomorrow, from my own point of view. I hope
you're at least a
bit interested. :)
Jens
---
>From the
German newspaper "Sueddeutsche Zeitung", Friday March 27th,
page 27
Burn, burn, burn
A new radio
adaptation of Jack Kerouac's novel "On the Road"
22.05, Bayern 2
Radio -- Yes, Kerouac is there for everyone, and every
age gets its own
Kerouac. Therefore, for fourty years every generation
has tried to
enter life "on the road" - since the book with that same
title by Kerouac
was published in 1957, which became the bestseller of
the Beat
Generation. "But then they danced down the streets like
dingledodies, and
I shambled after as I've been doing all my life after
people who interest
me, because the only people for me are the mad ones,
the ones who are
mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desireous of
everything at the
same time, the ones who never yawn or say a
commonplace
thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman
candles exploding
like spiders across the stars..."
[For everyone
familiar with the German language I'll add the new German
translation of
this excerpt at the bottom of my mail, just to do my job
properly - Jens]
He's no type for
the reading cabinet, for a quiet reading. The
originality of
Kerouac is nothing unique, nothing one couldn't recognize
in other works.
It is a drive, which constantly changes the book itself,
so that
something, which sometimes seems dry and antique, becomes as
fresh as the
morning dew when being re-read. You have to read him aloud,
this restless,
pathetic-beatific boaster, who is disturbed and blessed
by his ability to
absorb life into his person, into his work. The words
need room, the
beat of the language needs a body.
A new "On
the Road" will be presented tonight by Michael Farin and
Robert Forster, a
mixture of blues and Scott Joplin. It is a typical
Kerouac 98, who
we'll hear here - more scepticism and hesitation than we
remembered. A
Beat who's nearly reflective, and therefore wins a strong
naivety. A spoken
music that shines with impudence and haste, which
doesn't take
anything as serious as shifting gears between the single
sentences.
---
Here's the new
German translation of that Kerouac quote cited in the
article above:
Those who're familiar with the German language might see
how good (or bad)
the translation is.
"Aber damals
tanzten sie durch die Strassen wie Kobolde, und ich
stolperte
hinterher, wie ich mein Leben lang hinter Leuten hergestolpert
bin, die mich
interessieren, denn die einzigen Menschen sind fuer mich
die Verrueckten,
die verrueckt sind aufs Leben, verrueckt aufs Reden,
verrueckt auf
Erloesung, voll Gier auf alles zugleich, die Leute, die
niemals gaehnen
oder alltaegliche Dinge sagen, sondern brennen, brennen,
brennen wie
phantastische gelbe Wunderkerzen und wie Feuerraeder unter
den Sternen
explodieren..."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:37:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Diane Di Prima reading
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
On Thu, 26 Mar
1998 20:12:14 EST Zucchini4 said:
>Hey y'all.
Just wanted to drop you a line, because Diane DiPrima and some
>other woman
are going to be reading at the Walt Whitman Center (or
>somethinglike
that) in Camden NJ this Sunday (the 29th) at 2:30 pm. So if
>anyone lives
in the area/ is interested in going, you can write me and I'll
>send the few
meager details that I have. (There's a listing for it in the City
>Paper also.)
Me- I'm definitely going to try to be there. Of course I'll let
>you all know
how wonderful it is! :)
>
>--Stephanie
And while you're
there...visit Walt Whitman's house and tomb.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:46:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: straw men and other rhetorical
attacks
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Just got another
note from Phil. I take back "to a
lesser extent."
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:47:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: oops
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Apologies to the
list. The last message I sent out was
intended, of course, as
a private message. It will make no sense to anyone on the list
and shouldn't.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:55:48 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Scott Holland
<sholland@ICLUB.ORG>
Organization:
Creeps Filmworks, 101 Center Court, Berea, KY 40403
Subject: Re: You All Have Been Used
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> Today I learned that material I posted
on the Beat-List
> in answer to
the outrageous attacks by Diane DeRooy and other Sampas
> friends has
been submitted to selected lawyers and judges in order
> to harm my
legal cases
=== Welcome to
the Internet. Saying something on the Net is no different
than if you'd
called a press conference and made these statements live
on CNN.
Statements made on the Internet are fair game, I'm afraid.
> Instead
THEY--not I--have made it a warring ground to help win a
> case they
feel might otherwise not be winnable.
=== So stop
providing them with ammunition, fer Pete's sake! Seriously
and respectfully,
a word of advice, Gerry, consider the possibility that
you may be your
own worst enemy : my take on this whole matter has begun
recently to shift
somewhat away from your camp, NOT because of anything
your attackers
have said, but because of things YOU have said.
Myself, I don't
feel used.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeffrey Scott
Holland - Berea, Ky
now reading :
Billy Childish's
"Like A God
I Love All Things"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:00:21 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: You All Have Been Used
Comments: cc:
jgrant@bookzen.com
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Dear Friends on
the Beat-L: March 27, 1998
Today I learned that material I posted
on the Beat-List in answer to
the outrageous
attacks by Diane DeRooy and other Sampas friends has been
submitted to selected
lawyers and judges in order to harm my legal cases
involving
1) my right to remain Jan Kerouac's
literary executor
2) my ability to carry forward Jan
Kerouac's lawsuit in Florida
In other words, Mr. Sampas's friends
have used this Beat List for
their own
financial purposes. This Beat List was
supposed to be an open
forum for free
discussion of Beat topics. Instead
THEY--not I--have made it
a warring ground
to help win a case they feel might otherwise not be
winnable. My sin, and my stupidity, is to have thought
it important to have
answered the
deluge of lies about me posted here. And
Mr. Gargan's guilt,
though he refuses
to admit it, is to have allowed this deluge of lies to
have continued
for almost a year.
The setups have been obvious. Just a few days ago, someone I'd
never heard of
reposted my "If Kerouac Gave Up Buddhism" post from a MONTH
AGO. Why was it reposted two days ago? Obviously to give Diane DeRooy the
excuse to issue a
fresh round of attacks on me and my literary work.
Because I haven't
been posting anything for weeks; I've been too involved in
health and other
issues involving my children. SO they
had to use the
ventriloquist's
tactics, put up a post from me that was sent a month ago and
breathe just
enough life into it for Ms. DeRooy to have an excuse for more
attacks.
This kind of behavior is not only
underhanded, it is an insult and
an abuse of all
you good folk who come to the Beat List looking for an
intelligent and
lively discussion of the writers you love.
I hope you will
all take some
action to stop this abuse, if only to write Mr. Gargan about it.
There has been a major betrayal of
trust here, and it has come from
the very people
who have been yelling the loudest in their accusations
against me.
--Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:38:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jackofdays <Jackofdays@AOL.COM>
Subject: The Sampas Connection
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
In a message
dated 26-Mar-98 10:33:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET
writes:
<< And I would suggest that the connection to
Mr. John Sampas, whose
financial empire
is threatened by my late friend Jan Kerouac's lawsuit, is at
the heart of that
agenda. >>
In my travels
over the last year, I've had the good fortune to interview the
heirs and
administrators of the estates of the Beat Triumvirate: Bob
Rosenthal,
trustee for Allen Ginsberg, James Grauerholz, heir and executor for
William S.
Burroughs, and John Sampas, heir of Stella Kerouac and
representative
for the Estate of Jack Kerouac. I have only a formal
relationship with
Bob so far, having interviewed him only once for my
research, but I
hope to continue the connection for many years, as I continue
to research
Kerouac.
James Grauerholz
and John Sampas have been very helpful, offering insights
only they can
bring to the scene. James has been especially helpful to me with
my book
proposals, including speaking to professionals in the field on my
behalf about my
various ideas and ongoing projects. I would say, very
honestly, that
James Grauerholz has been a mentor and a dear friend to me.
When I met John
Sampas last fall, I was expecting to find a person who was
mean, bullying,
crooked and generally unlikeable. On the contrary, the man I
met and have
gotten to know is a classic, stoic Yankee type, Greek-American,
from a large
family (10 children), who is smart, tough, literate, sensitive
and caring.
People who don't
meet the Sampas family and give them a chance to be known are
missing out on
something pretty wonderful. I also met Jim, producer of "Kicks
Joy
Darkness," a delightful, intelligent, caring person who has that same big
smile seen on the
faces of his Aunt Stella and Uncle Sebastian. And I spent
time with Tony
Sampas, barkeep, a colorful character, retired from military
intelligence, who
regaled me with hours of his tales of painting Lowell and
Hyannis red with
old Jack himself, back in the early Sixties.
Jack's connection
to the Sampas family goes back to his childhood. He
maintained that
connection all of his life. He writes about the Sampas kids in
his books. He
stayed with various Sampas brothers when he visited Lowell,
drank in Nicky's
bars, borrowed money frequently from this family when he was
down and out. His
wake was held in the parlor of the Sampas family home, where
John Sampas has
lived all of his life. He is buried between Stella and
Sebastian in
Edson Cemetery.
Historically,
this makes complete sense. Jack's connection to the Sampases was
the longest and
most consistent one of his inconsistent life. This lively,
literate,
Lowellian family understood him, and they understand him, in a way
outsiders cannot.
In 1990, Stella
died, followed by Charles. Then Tony had a heart attack. Of
the remaining
heirs, it fell to John to manage the Estate. He didn't know how
to do this, but
he set out to learn, hiring various experts to catalog Jack's
papers and
learning about royalties and literary agents.
As the Estate had
no working capital, John began to sell items from Jack's
archive,
including books from Jack's personal library, many of which were
review copies
from publishers, letters from and to Jack, and cancelled checks.
He also began to
look at what could be published out of the archive, what
finished
manuscripts were there.
There came a time
when the Mexico City Blues notebooks were being considered
for sale. Sampas
elected not to sell them to a private party, and in June
1993, he sold
them to the New York Public Library.
If one looks at
the progression of his stewardship, it's easy to play Monday-
morning
quarterback and say what you might have done differently. He has
expressed certain
regrets about some items that were sold. But he has learned,
and as even his
critics have said, he's "grown into the job." It's not an easy
one, keeping
track of ubiquitous use of an author's words, letters, royalties,
when that author
is one of the most important and popular writers of the 20th
century, world
wide.
Allen sold his
archive, mostly, during his lifetime, for a million dollars or
so. According to
Bob Rosenthal, about half went to taxes. The other half was
used to remodel
Allen's apartment, including installing an elevator (if I
remember
correctly), so Allen, with chronic hepatitis, diabetes, and
congestive heart
failure, didn't have to manage the stairs.
William saw that
most of his papers (if not all) were deposited in libraries
of his choice
before he died. Since his death, James has not engaged in any
selling of his
relics to collectors, and tells me he doesn't intend to.
In my interviews
with John Sampas, I have asked him the hard questions. I have
confronted him
with accusations about his character and his stewardship of
Jack's archive. I
have found his answers, most of which are documented by
letters,
receipts, or other accountings, to be satisfying and frank.
He has not
greased any wheels or opened any doors for me, nor would I allow
him to. I like
him personally, and so do many, many other people. But anyone
who knows me
knows I MUST live and die by my own work, or it will mean nothing
to me. And I
would never use a friendship for financial gain. Perhaps more
importantly, no
one can force a publishing house to publish a book that isn't
marketable. That
would represent a financial loss to the publisher, and would
offset any
profitable relationship they might perceive having with a person of
influence. Books
are published because they will make money. The publishing
industry is very
careful about that.
I do invite
people who are concerned about Kerouac's archive to contact John
Sampas directly
(2 Stevens Street, Lowell, MA 01851, 978/458-2708). If you see
him at a reading,
go up and talk to him. He's not some mythic beast or
horrible demon.
He's just a regular guy, and people who are fair to him and
openminded in
their approach may also find that he's someone they like, quite
a lot.
Diane De Rooy
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:17:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MorganBill <MorganBill@AOL.COM>
Subject: New Catalogue
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Beat-L readers,
Our 5th catalogue
of beat related rare books has just been issued. This time
we feature books
from the library of Allen Ginsberg and Edie Kerouac. These
are duplicates of
items in the Ginsberg collection at Stanford so don't start
a fuss about
selling off his collection. Anyone who
wants a copy of the
catalogue should
request from:
Morgan &
Rosenthal
PO Box 1631,
Stuyvesant Station
New York, NY 10009
or e-mail: MRrarebooks@aol.com
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:22:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Beat-l farewell
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
It seems to me
that Beat-l served a real need for nearly three years
now. The high point of the list for me, of course,
was the period after
Allen's
death. Recently, however, things have
become impossible because
of the Kerouac
estate feud. I've done everything in my
power to try to
keep the list
free of the acrimony associated with this dispute but it
seems I've
failed. My personal mail in recent days
has been full of
complaints and
attacks from both sides. Frankly, I no
longer have the
time or the
energy to devote to this conflict. I
have decided to shut
Beat-l down. Despite the problems, I've found our
discussions on
Beat-l a
rewarding experience. I will always be
grateful for the
contacts I've
made on the list and I hope that some of us will keep in
touch. Let me quote Kerouac as my farewell
statement, gentle
listmembers:
"Go to sleep. Tomorrow's another
day. Hic calix! Look
that up in Latin,
it means 'Here's the chalice,' and be sure there's
wine in
it." (Last paragraph of Vanity of
Duluoz) And before I go, let
me just take this
public opportunity to thank Fred Bogin, a man with
absolutely no
interest in Kerouac or the Beats, who contributed so
generously of his
time and technical expertise to make this list work as
well as it
did. Best wishes always, Bill Gargan
Return-Path:
<owner-BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:47:39 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Your removal from the BEAT-L list
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Reply-To: BEAT-L-request@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
X-LSV-ListID:
BEAT-L
Fri, 27 Mar 1998
18:47:39
You have been
removed from the BEAT-L list (BEAT-L: Beat Generation List)
by William Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2097 23:18:27 +0200
Reply-To: Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>
Subject: Hallo!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hallo!
I'm a new user
from Italy, delused for the poor information about the death
of WSB here in
Italy.
If there are
other italians on this list, please e-mail me!!!
We should try to
do something against this "annus horribilis" for the beat
generation.
F.D.
Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
To:
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Da
qualche tempo leggo i suoi interventi...
Date: Thu, 5 Sep
2097 12:22:12 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Caro Sig. Rasa,
da qualche tempo leggo i suoi interventi sulla mailing list
BEAT-L e li trovo
molto interessanti, anche se purtroppo la mia cultura in
materia di
letteratura beat è molto scarsa, ridotta com'è ai soli
iper-classici
(Sulla strada, I sotterranei, Maggie Cassidy per Kerouac e
l'immancabile
Pasto nudo di WSB).
Mi stavo
domandando se poteva consigliarmi qualche lettura "d'insieme" di
facile
reperibilità, per poter capire i rapporti che legano le diverse
personalità degli
autori e le varie correnti letterarie che via via hanno
preso forma a
partire dal dopoguerra negli USA.
A presto
Francesco Dufour
p.s. saprebbe
indicarmi dove trovare il testo completo dell'articolo su WSB
apparso sul Wall
Street Journal
Date: Thu, 06 Feb
1997 11:21:43 -0800
To: New User
From: Eudora
<welcome@eudora.com>
Subject: Welcome
<x-rich><center><bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param><bigger><bigger><bigger>Welcome
to Eudora Light 3.0
</bigger></bigger></bigger></color></bold></center>
Congratulations
on choosing Eudora, the #1 Internet email program. We've added many new features and
improvements to this version, and encourage you to explore them all. Here are just a few of the features that will
help you to easily manage your email, save time and communicate more
effectively...
<center><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param><bigger>
Basic Filters
Interpretive
Stylized Text
Drag and Drop
Mailbox Window
Drag & Drop
Capabilities
Active URL Links
Eudora Plug-ins
support
Improved Mail
Server Interaction
MAPI Support
</bigger></color></center><bold><italic>
Please visit
us.</italic></bold>
Double-click on the following address to visit our web site
<<<underline><color><param>0000,0000,fefe</param>http://www.eudora.com</color></underline>>. Our web site is a great place to learn of
product updates, new beta releases of software and Eudora related resources on
the Internet.
<bold>
<italic>Eudora
Pro.</italic></bold> If you
are interested in previewing our Eudora Pro product, double click the following
address: <<<underline><color><param>0000,0000,fefe</param>http://www.eudora.com/prodemo</color></underline>>. You can download a demo of Eudora Pro and
explore its many powerful features for 30 days free of charge.
Enjoy.
<center><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>
</color></center>
</x-rich>
To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Chorus
113.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Adrien,
I am still here,
be patient,
and I am
continuing the search on the Chorus 113,
now the problem
presents itself in this way:
the beginning of
the Chorus reading by Jhonny Deep seems verse (4):
"everything
is perfect"
BUT what i
remember the poem start is, (i write this in italian):
(1) America ti ho dato tutto
(2) e
ora sono nulla
(3) UOMO
(4) Ogni cosa e' perfetta
(5) non sta' nemmeno accadendo
(6) UOMO
well, now the
poem read from Jhonny Deep begins from
the number (3),
& lacks (1) &
(2) that they tell more or minus,
"America has given you all
and now I don't have nothing."
i'm enjoying yr
.wav file, IT'S GREAT!, but it look as if it have
forgotten the
starting piece as i remember. now i can't recognize
the real thing
'cuz my video recording is actually broken. please
have u any
suggestion 'bout this,
better can u, if
not to heavy
send me the
Chorus 113 (sad i have lost MexBlues years ago changing
room & can't
have a look at), & i shall match the Blues with the start
fragment
broadcasted on TV Zone channel where i found this wonder,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
rinaldo@gpnet.itReturn-Path:
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar
1997 18:36:21 -0800
From: Adrien
Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Chorus 113.
Rinaldo,
I wish I could
tell you more about Depp's 113 reading but I actually
didn't see the
United States of Poetry series, I just got the sound clip
from the usop
website. I don't know if the performance was longer...
It's interesting
that Depp added "Everything is perfect, it's not even
happening...",
I thing being the loyal JK follower he is, he simply
decided to riff
on the poem just as Jack did on his own recorded
readings (note
the several insertions of "Man") a la Bird Parker and
other bop
musicians.
> well, now
the poem read from Jhonny Deep begins
from the number (3),
> & lacks
(1) & (2) that they tell more or minus,
>
> "America has given you all
> and now I don't have nothing."
I'm not familiar
with those lines...is it JK? Sounds eerily like
Ginsberg's
"America I've given you all and now I'm nothing..."[America]
Luckily my
computer is next to all my beat books 'n stuff, so it's no
problem
transcribing 113 for you.
I made a homemade .wav of 113 read by Allen
Ginsberg...it's from the
audiobook of
MexCity Blues which is I think absolutely essential
listening, a
perfect companion to the book, a revelatory experience.
Plus it's one of
Ginsberg's best recordings (you could tell he loved
reading it!).
It's about 1700k and I can send that along if you like.
Let me know...
yrs,
Adrien
Chorus 113
Got up and
dressed up
and
went out and got laid
Then died and got
buried
in a coffin in the grave.
Man-
Yet everything is perfect,
Because it is
empty,
Because it is
perfect
with emptiness,
Because it's not
even happening.
Everything
Is Ignorant of its
own emptiness-
Anger
Doesnt like to be
reminded of fits-
You start with
the Teaching
Inscrutable of the Diamond
And end with it,
your goal
is your startingplace,
No race was run,
no walk
of prophetic toenails
Across Arabies of
hot
meaning-you just
numbly don't get there
To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Chorus 113.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Adrien wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>I wish I
could tell you more about Depp's 113 reading but I actually
>didn't see
the United States of Poetry series, I just got the sound clip
>from the usop
website. I don't know if the performance was longer...
>
>It's
interesting that Depp added "Everything is perfect, it's not even
>happening...",
I thing being the loyal JK follower he is, he simply
>decided to
riff on the poem just as Jack did on his own recorded
>readings
(note the several insertions of "Man") a la Bird Parker and
>other bop
musicians.
>
>> well,
now the poem read from Jhonny Deep begins
from the number (3),
>> &
lacks (1) & (2) that they tell more or minus,
>>
>> "America has given you all
>> and now I don't have nothing."
>
>I'm not
familiar with those lines...is it JK? Sounds eerily like
>Ginsberg's
"America I've given you all and now I'm nothing..."[America]
>
>Luckily my
computer is next to all my beat books 'n stuff, so it's no
>problem
transcribing 113 for you.
>
> I made a
homemade .wav of 113 read by Allen Ginsberg...it's from the
>audiobook of
MexCity Blues which is I think absolutely essential
>listening, a
perfect companion to the book, a revelatory experience.
>Plus it's one
of Ginsberg's best recordings (you could tell he loved
>reading it!).
It's about 1700k and I can send that along if you like.
>Let me
know...
>
>yrs,
>
>Adrien
>
>Chorus 113
>
>Got up and
dressed up
> and went out and got laid
>Then died and
got buried
> in a coffin in the grave.
>Man-
> Yet everything is perfect,
>Because it is
empty,
>Because it is
perfect
> with emptiness,
>Because it's
not even happening.
>
>Everything
>Is Ignorant
of its own emptiness-
>Anger
>Doesnt like
to be reminded of fits-
>
>You start
with the Teaching
> Inscrutable of the Diamond
>And end with
it, your goal
> is your startingplace,
>No race was
run, no walk
> of prophetic toenails
>Across
Arabies of hot
> meaning-you just
> numbly don't get there
>
>
Adrien,
thanx for posting,
u are a magician!,
NOW the problem
start 'bout the video "reading"
(yes by Deep, of
course) on TV Zone
i have seen is a
bit different, but in
some way the same
e.g. the music refrain on the background et coetera,
i post u later on
this subject, that
i think is a
matter of soft censored JK (???),
many thanx again,
yr Rinaldo.To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: AG,
Chorus 113.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Adrien wrote:
>> well,
now the poem read from Jhonny Deep begins
from the number (3),
>> &
lacks (1) & (2) that they tell more or minus,
>>
>> "America has given you all
>> and now I don't have nothing."
>
>I'm not
familiar with those lines...is it JK? Sounds eerily like
>Ginsberg's
"America I've given you all and now I'm nothing..."[America]
too me it sound a
good ANSWER!, Deep adds this verse to his reading,
but it's not present in the .wav file i play &
replay ad infinitum,
> I made a
homemade .wav of 113 read by Allen Ginsberg...it's from the
>audiobook of
MexCity Blues which is I think absolutely essential
>listening, a
perfect companion to the book, a revelatory experience.
>Plus it's one
of Ginsberg's best recordings (you could tell he loved
>reading it!).
It's about 1700k and I can send that along if you like.
>Let me
know...
YES, AGAIN
THANX!, but send it, please, to this email
rasa@gpnet.it
like the previous
wonder file.
>
>yrs,
>
>Adrien
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<NICO88@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar
1997 14:23:38 -0500 (EST)
From:
NICO88@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Zanzotto
buona sera
rinaldo- come sta? ho una domanda, (<---is that right?) im doing
this
"off-list", so to speak, because its not anything beat, whatever that
means, but i was
looking at this month's issue of American Poetry Review and
it said something
about an Andrea Zanzotto who collaborated with Fellini on
Casanova -which i
havent seen- but anyhow- he wrote a book of poetry derrived
from the film
with drawings by fellini in it, written in "the original Veneto
dialect" (im
not too familiar with all the different italian dialects) and
they added some
impressive review paragraphs and supposedly its quite good; i
was wondering if
you know anything about this, i dont know much about the
contemporary
italian poetry scene- thought maybe you would. have you heard of
this guy? this
book?(- oh by the way, its called Peasant's Wake for Fellini's
Casanova and
Other Poems) i'm quite curious.....
tutte buone cose
(<----??), ginevra (ginny)
To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Zanzotto
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 14.23 17/03/97
-0500, you NICO88@aol.com wrote:
>buona sera
rinaldo- come sta? ho una domanda, (<---is that right?) im doing
>this
"off-list", so to speak, because its not anything beat, whatever that
>means, but i
was looking at this month's issue of American Poetry Review and
>it said
something about an Andrea Zanzotto who collaborated with Fellini on
>Casanova
-which i havent seen- but anyhow- he wrote a book of poetry derrived
>from the film
with drawings by fellini in it, written in "the original Veneto
>dialect"
(im not too familiar with all the different italian dialects) and
>they added
some impressive review paragraphs and supposedly its quite good; i
>was wondering
if you know anything about this, i dont know much about the
>contemporary
italian poetry scene- thought maybe you would. have you heard of
>this guy?
this book?(- oh by the way, its called Peasant's Wake for Fellini's
>Casanova and
Other Poems) i'm quite curious.....
>tutte buone
cose (<----??), ginevra (ginny)
>
Saluti
<<NICO88@aol.com>>,
ma, per caso, ti
sei dimenticato di scrivere il tuo nome?, cosi' mi
tocca chiamarti
NICO88@aol.com in perfetto stile virtual internet...
Esattamente come
dici Andrea Zanzotto e' un poeta veneto (dialect but
also in italian
language), se ti interessa (if u are interested) ti posso
inviare le poesie
che mi chiederai, la poesia dialettale veneta e'
piuttosto
importante, perfino quando Lou Reed e' stato al Poetry
Festival di
Conegliano (a little town near Venice) le sue canzoni
sono state
tradotte in dialetto veneto creando cosi' un clima
amichevole e
ironico. Il Veneto, come tu saprai e' importante perche'
un autore come
Hemingway ha vissuto molto da queste parti e quando
veniva in Italia
passava le sue giornate di caccia a Caorle, un posto
dove ho insegnato
per due anni e alcuni del posto se lo ricordano ancora!
Un altro poeta
veneto, veramente (really dialectal) is BIAGIO MARIN
e anche qui se
sei interessato posso inviarti informazioni.
Inoltre e' comune
in Italia (in ogni luogo) il sentimento poetico
prima (before of
the prose) della prosa, questo non so dirti perche'
qui c'e' sempre
da stare al passo con la tradizione di Dante Alighieri,
Ariosto, Ugo
Foscolo (another great venetian poet), e cosi' via.
i have write this
post above in italian assuming u &
others folks
are learning this
WONDERFUL language, as i, as a naive like a lot
ENGLISH, but if
it's some difficulties to understand get in another
touch & we
each others clarify the matter,
I'm happy to be
of service!
write soon,
saluti cordiali
dal vostro
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<NICO88@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar
1997 19:11:15 -0500 (EST)
From:
NICO88@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
Zanzotto
In a message
dated 97-03-17 15:36:29 EST, you write:
> Saluti
<<NICO88@aol.com>>,
> ma, per caso, ti sei dimenticato di scrivere
il tuo nome?, cosi' mi
> tocca chiamarti NICO88@aol.com in perfetto
stile virtual internet...
>
> Esattamente come dici Andrea Zanzotto e' un
poeta veneto (dialect but
> also in italian language), se ti interessa
(if u are interested) ti posso
> inviare le poesie che mi chiederai, la poesia
dialettale veneta e'
> piuttosto importante, perfino quando Lou Reed
e' stato al Poetry
> Festival di Conegliano (a little town near
Venice) le sue canzoni
> sono state tradotte in dialetto veneto
creando cosi' un clima
> amichevole e ironico. Il Veneto, come tu
saprai e' importante perche'
> un autore come Hemingway ha vissuto molto da
queste parti e quando
> veniva in Italia passava le sue giornate di
caccia a Caorle, un posto
> dove ho insegnato per due anni e alcuni del
posto se lo ricordano ancora!
> Un altro poeta veneto, veramente (really
dialectal) is BIAGIO MARIN
> e anche qui se sei interessato posso inviarti
informazioni.
> Inoltre e' comune in Italia (in ogni luogo)
il sentimento poetico
> prima (before of the prose) della prosa,
questo non so dirti perche'
> qui c'e' sempre da stare al passo con la
tradizione di Dante Alighieri,
> Ariosto, Ugo Foscolo (another great venetian
poet), e cosi' via.
Rinaldo Rinaldo
Rinaldo!!!! Hey- :::i'm blushing::: - but you know i dont
speak THAT much
Italian!!! i can understand some various "the"'s and
"and"'s
and
"of"'s and "that"s and "i have"s and
"all"s and "as you know"s and
"because"s
and some simultaneous phrases ive come to know...but i cant put it
all together
well. could you translate?! if not, my dad can probably do it,
he speaks Italian
(he's american, but he lived in Italy for two years [due
anni]). perhaps
i'll bring this email of yours to him and demand that he
translate it. im
always doing such things. :)
anyhow, whats
this about Lou Reed? ahh, help... really, i try to make what i
can of this but i
cant understand it! when you get a chance and have nothing
to do- could you
write be back saying using l'inglese??? mi dispiace, im just
learning. :)
mille e` mille e`
mille grazie, ginny. write soon. (escrive mi fra poco ?)
Return-Path:
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar
1997 16:08:12 -0800
From: Adrien
Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: AG,
Chorus 113.
Content-Disposition:
inline; filename="CH113.WAV"
Attachment
Converted: C:\PBOX\RINALDO\CH113.WAV
To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Zanzotto
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear
NICO88@aol.com,
'bout Andrea
Zanzotto works [related Fellini films] there
is a book titled
"Filo'" [the last o means accented o grave],
(italian likes
accented letters [better html for this]).
now Zanzotto
Filo' is "Per il Casanova di Fellini" &
written in
venetian dialect then translated in italian &
if u (or others)
have an english translation it's a wonder
i can't lose... i
hope yr father can for u translated this
verses
Vera figura, vera
natura,
slanciata in
raggi come un'aurora,
[above fragment
from Filo' is related to Venice metaphor]
Filo' means a
discourse that fill a ''space'' with many
words &
complexity,
saluti da
Rinaldo.
postscriptum: i
agree with u, if i distress u with both
italian &
venetian, many apologies, ginevra,
buona giornata a
te e alla tua famiglia,
ciao.To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: AG,
Chorus 113.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 16.08 18/03/97
-0800, you Adrien wrote:
>Attachment
Converted: C:\PBOX\RINALDO\CH113.WAV
>
MANY THANX AGAIN,
YR
RINALDO.To: LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
SUBscribe BEAT-L
Rinaldo RasaTo: NICO88@AOL.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Opens City Lights in Firenze, Italy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Opens City Lights in Firenze, Italy.
>They opened
City Lights in Florence?!!!!!!!!!!!
>wow! ! ! !
>rinaldo rinaldo,
would you be so kind as to give me the adress?
>cuz in gonna
be in italy this summer, so i MUST go.
>grazie....
buona giornata..., ginny
>
ginny,
allora,
l'indirizzo e'
---------------------------------------------------------------
City lights
Italia, via San Niccolo', Firenze, Italia.
---------------------------------------------------------------
a due passi dal
Ponte Vecchio, credo che quando sarai a Firenze
questa estate non
ti potrai sbagliare.
---------------------------------------------------------------
per ulteriori
informazioni
Massimo Cassini,
Edizioni minimum fax
via della
Farnesina, 13 - 00194 Roma, Italia.
vox 06.3336545 /
3336553 - fax 06.3336385
----------------------------------------------------------------
p.s. a little
disappointment, i hoped was Venice the city
but things are
right all the same, ciao da rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<NICO88@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar
1997 11:01:18 -0500 (EST)
From:
NICO88@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Zanzotto
again
a while ago you wrote:
>
> Esattamente come dici Andrea Zanzotto e' un
poeta veneto (dialect but
> also in italian language), se ti interessa
(if u are interested) ti posso
> inviare le poesie che mi chiederai, la
poesia dialettale veneta e'
> piuttosto importante, perfino quando Lou
Reed e' stato al Poetry
> Festival di Conegliano (a little town near
Venice) le sue canzoni
> sono state tradotte in dialetto veneto
creando cosi' un clima
> amichevole e ironico. Il Veneto, come tu saprai
e' importante perche'
> un autore come Hemingway ha vissuto molto da
queste parti e quando
> veniva in Italia passava le sue giornate di
caccia a Caorle, un posto
> dove ho insegnato per due anni e alcuni del
posto se lo ricordano ancora!
> Un altro poeta veneto, veramente (really
dialectal) is BIAGIO MARIN
> e anche qui se sei interessato posso inviarti
informazioni.
> Inoltre e' comune in Italia (in ogni luogo)
il sentimento poetico
> prima (before of the prose) della prosa,
questo non so dirti perche'
> qui c'e' sempre da stare al passo con la
tradizione di Dante Alighieri,
> Ariosto, Ugo Foscolo (another great venetian
poet), e cosi' via.
>
rinaldo, buon
giorno! i finally got translated all that you said here, so
i'll
respond....(a bit
of a delay, i realize) if you do get a
chance, i'd love
some information
on these poets, as you are so kind to offer. whats this
poetry festival
with Lou Reed? in Venice? do they have it every year? what
time of the year?
i think im gonna look in a bookstore for this Zanzotto/
Fellini
colaboration, it sounds interesting. thanks again.
hope all's well;
ciao, ginny
To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: part#1
Re: Zanzotto again
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 11.01 29/03/97
-0500, you ginny wrote:
> a while ago
you wrote:
>
>rinaldo, buon
giorno! i finally got translated all that you said here, so
>i'll
>respond....(a
bit of a delay, i realize) if you do get
a chance, i'd love
>some
information on these poets, as you are so kind to offer. whats this
>poetry
festival with Lou Reed? in Venice? do they have it every year? what
>time of the
year? i think im gonna look in a bookstore for this Zanzotto/
>Fellini
colaboration, it sounds interesting. thanks again.
>hope all's
well; ciao, ginny
>
>
Well,
ginny, i must
split the answer in some emails 'cuz the big amount of
information &
considerations 'bout both Fellini himself & Zanzotto.
first, Zanzotto/Fellini
collaboration; i post the introductory
(a letter written
by Federico Fellini to Andrea Zanzotto) that
open the
book "Filo'" (ò),
first published in 1976, (but
i have the 1988
edition)
---
"
Roma, luglio
1976
Caro Andrea,
...e adesso debbo
doppiarlo questo film che ho spericolatamente
girato in inglese
e tra i tanti problemi c'e' quello del dialetto
veneto. Come
anche mi ha ricordato Naldini con attenzione tempestiva,
quando gli ho
manifestato i miei timori, ho pensato che avrei potuto
scrivere a te per
avere un aiuto nel trovare una chiave. E ti scrivo ora,
un po' esitante,
perche' in fondo non so bene che cosa voglio e temo
di disturbarti.
E' una intenzione confusa, un proposito che non so
fino a che punto
sia realizzabile.
Ora provo a manifestartelo: vorrei tentare di
rompere l'opacita',
la convenzione
del dialetto veneto che, come tutti i dialetti, si
e' raggelato in
una cifra disemozionata e stucchevole, e cercare di
restituirgli freschezza,
renderlo piu' vivo, penentrante, mercuriale,
accanito, magari
dando la preferenza ad un veneto ruzantino o
tentando
un'estrosa promiscuita' tra quello del ruzante e il veneto
goldoniano, o
meglio riscoprendo forme arcaiche o addirittura inventando
combinazioni
fonetiche e linguistiche in modo che l'assunto verbale
rifletta il
riverbero della visionarieta' stralunata che mi sembra
di aver dato al
film.
Ammetto che sono soltanto intenzioni perche',
come inevitabilmente
accade, le
esigenze concrete del doppiaggio, la mancanza di tempo, le
inadeguatezze di
chi deve dar voce ed espressione a queste invenzioni
verbali e
fonetiche, finiranno immancabilmente col ridurre,
sdramatizzare e
rendere approssimativo il proposito che ti ho
manifestato. Ma
non e' forse piacevole lo stesso farneticare su intenzioni
e compiutezze
ideali anche se impraticabili fino in fondo?
C'e' un'altra cosa che vorrei chiederti: il
film comincia con un
rito (che ho
inventato) al quale assistono il doge, le autorita', il
popolo di
Venezia. E' un rito che si svolge di notte sul Canal Grande
dal cui fondo
deve emergere una gigantesca e nera testa di donna.
Una specie di
nume lagunare, la gran madre mediterranea, la femmina
misteriosa che
abita in ciascuno di noi, e potrei continuare ancora
un po' accostando
con incauta disinvoltura altre suggestive immagini
psicanalitiche.
La cerimonia e' un po' la metafora ideologica
di tutto il film; infatti
a un certo punto
l'oscuro e grandioso feticcio non ancora completamente
emerso torna ad
inabissarsi perche' si sono spezzati i pali, si
strappano delle
funi; insomma il testone deve riaffondare sprofondando
nelle acque del
Canal Grande e restare laggiu' in fondo per sempre,
sconosciuto e
irragiungibile.
Come ogni rituale che per divenire contenuto
liberatorio ha bisogno
di nutrirsi di
un'accesa forza psichica scandita in formule verbali o
mimetiche, anche
l'emersione, il venire ala luce dell'oscuro simulacro
femminile
dovrebbe essere accompagnato da orazioni propiziatorie,
implorazioni
iterative, fonie seducenti, litanie evocatrici e anche
irriverenze,
sfide, insulti, provocazioni, sberleffi, tutto un
inquieto
scettiscismo esorcizzante il temuto fallire dell'evento. Ecco,
vorrei avvolgere
l'intero rito in questo tessuto, in questa specie di
ragnatela sonora,
sacra e popolare. Ti domando troppo se ti chiedo
di inventare e di
scrivere tu queste esortazioni, questa preghiera
accorata e
beffarda impaurita e sfottente, vecchia come il mondo ed
eternamente infantile?
Le richieste non sono ancora finite caro
Andrea, c'e' ancora una cosa
che vorrei
chiederti: Casanova incontra a Londra una gigantessa di
origine veneta
finita la' come fenomeno da fiera presso un miserabile
luna-park, in
seguito a un matrimonio infelice. I luoghi, le
situazioni,
l'atmosfera in cui avviene l'incontro, l'aspetto stesso di
questa
straordinaria incarnazione femminile compongono quel mosaico
di trasalimenti
infantili ed angosciosi, fiabeschi e terrorizzanti
che piu'
emblematicamente definiscono il rapporto nevrotico di
Casanova con la
donna, cioe' con qualcosa di oscuro, inghiottente,
soverchiante. Ad
un certo momento, nella sua tenda, la gigantessa fa
il bagno dentro
una grande tinozza insieme a due nanetti napoletani
che l'accudiscono,
i soli amici che ha, e intanto canta una canzoncina
infantile e
dolente. Ecco, anche in questa occasione avrei pensato
ad una
filastrocca costruita con i materiali fonetici e linguistici
del linguaggio
<<pete'l>> che tu hai riscoperto mentri stavi a
Pieve di Soligo.
Permettimi il piacere di una citazione:
Dolce andare elegiando come va in
elegia l'autunno,
raccogliersi per bene accogliere in oro
radure...
...
<<Mama e nona te da' ate e cuco e
pepi e memela.
Bono ti, ca, co nona. Bei bumba bona.
E' fet foa e upi.>>
Mi sembra che la sonorita' liquida,
l'affastellarsi gorgogliante,
i suoni, le
sillabe che si sciolgono in bocca, quel cantilenare dolce
e rotto dei
bambini in un miscuglio di latte e materia disciolta, uno
sciabordio
addormentante, riproponga e rappresenti con suggestiva
efficacia quella
sorta di iconografia subacquea del film, l'immagine
placentaria,
amniotica, di una Venezia decomposta e fluttuante di
alghe, di buio muffito
e umido.
Ho finito caro Andrea. Certo dovresti vedere
il film prima di
decidere
qualcosa. Potremo parlare di tutto in modo un po' meno
febbricitante e
piu' preciso.
Questa lettera non vuole affatto sollecitare
una tua adesione
immediata, cio'
che ti ho detto era piuttosto il tentativo di
chiarire a me
stesso quello che ho in testa di fare e di confidarlo
ad un amico poeta
che per sensibilita' e fantasia linguisstica mi
sembra
l'interlocutore piu' autorevole e piu' congeniale all'operazione
che voglio
fare....
Federico Fellini
"
---
now excuse me for
not translated the letter (yr father can help
u to translate in
english, u're lucky lot for), i send this email
BUT u, please,
gimme a fast-reply if i can continue in asynchronous way
while u translate
the above stuff to email a sequel 'bout Zanzotto.
there is a reply
by Zanzotto to Fellini's letter & i post this in
future (e.g.
part#2, et cetera, if u like in this way) if u agree,
gimme a feedback,
cari saluti a te
ginny, e alla tua famiglia, da
Rinaldo.
---
PostScriptum:
ginny, check this
web site where, days ago i posted to bohemian
mailing list a
Zanzotto pome (a fragment),
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bohemian.html
u can retrieve a reference
in March 97 archive, hope this
is a further
help.
Return-Path:
<NICO88@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar
1997 16:37:34 -0500 (EST)
From:
NICO88@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
part#1 Re: Zanzotto again
wow, rinaldo,
grazie grazie. how nice of you to send all this, i truly
appreciate it. i
will, as soon as possible, get my dad to translate the
Zanzotto letter,
and no rush for the rest, whenever you get a chance is fine.
i'm gonna go see
what i can make of it myself, with my EXTREMELY LIMITED
knowledge of the
italian language. im also gonna go check out that website
you mentioned.
thanks so much again-
buona giornata!
(or, is it night where you are? then, buona notte.)
- ginny
To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
part#1 Re: Zanzotto again
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 16.37 29/03/97
-0500, you ginny wrote:
>wow, rinaldo,
grazie grazie. how nice of you to send all this, i truly
>appreciate
it. i will, as soon as possible, get my dad to translate the
>Zanzotto
letter, and no rush for the rest, whenever you get a chance is fine.
>i'm gonna go
see what i can make of it myself, with my EXTREMELY LIMITED
>knowledge of
the italian language. im also gonna go check out that website
>you
mentioned. thanks so much again-
>buona
giornata! (or, is it night where you are? then, buona notte.)
>
> - ginny
>
si' buonanotte e'
piu' giusto, qui e' gia' domenica da circa 20 minuti.
well, i send u
all informations i can retrieve & sometime u send
me some comment?
d'accordo (right?), ciao da Rinaldo.To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
part#2. Zanzotto.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
ginny,
now i post the
reply of Andrea Zanzotto
to previous
Fellini's letter (alias part#1)
by Filo':
---
"
I primi due
componimenti li avevo gia' scritti, in qualche modo.
Esistevano
dispersi nei miei lavori di molti anni fa, anche
lontanissimi.
certo, non in questa precisa forma, he
e' una delle
tante possibili
ad un tema insistente, mai esplicabile del tutto,
quasi
onnipresente oggi. devo comunque l'incontro con questa
incarnazione del
tema, che l'occasione richiedeva in parole dialettali,
alla mistica e
umorale prepotenza dei colori e delle immagini, alle
realta' ed agli
ingorghi onirici di cui Federico Fellini ha tessuto
anche questo suo
film, rincorrendo l'imprevedibilita' di Casanova
attraverso la
propria. Restava per me, e resta, l'incognita del
<<dialetto>>,
della sua schacchiera particolarmente infida. Ma a
parte il fatto
che quella veneta e' (stata) una possente lingua
capace di originare
anche un'altrettanto valida e complessa letteratura,
e' mai esistito
davvero un dialetto che non fosse qualcosa di
esplosivamente
diverso, almeno come potenzialita', da quanto lo
stesso termine,
con il suo sottinteso riduttivo, vine a proporre?
Del resto oggi
meno che mai sis sa che cosa sono i dialetti nelle
loro
capillarizzazioni infinitesimali e le lingua, specie quelle a
diffusione
tendenzialmente panterrestre, ne' come i loro destini
s'intersechino.
In questa occasione il discorso visivo di Fellini ha
risvegliato per
me un insieme di risonanze entro una certa aura
linguistica da
dirsi veneta (veneziana solo in parte) sia per eccesso
che per difetto.
Mi e' capitato davanti un parlare perso nella
diacronia e nella
sincronia veneta, fino al paradosso ed all'irrealta'
di una citazione
paleoveneta, un parlare un po' inventato, un po'
ricalcato da
troppo alti modelli, nel quale l'allarme per i diritti
della glottologia
e della filologia non riusciva a tenere a bada la
voglia di
stracciare i margini, di andare lontano, di <<correre fuori
di
strada>>. Certo, sulla linea accennata da Federico Fellini nella
sua fertile e
generosa lettera, si sarebbe potuto fare molto di piu'
e di meglio, a
parte i limiti di spazio posti dalle situazioni
filmiche.
E sono grato a
Fellini di avermi sointo gentilmente,
ammicando e quasi
segnado silenzio con un dito sulle labbra, a questa
breve ma per me
non trascurabile discesa per scorciatoie assai
precipiti, molte
volte intraviste, mai praticate in precedenza proprio
qui e cosi': con
un occhio a tante deesse, dalla Testa, a Reitia,
a Venezia, alla
Gigantessa bambola: tutte riducibili ad una sola
realta', pur
nell'immensa lontananza dlle loro icone, dei loro
significati, dei
loro tempi.
Lungo questo
itinerario e' nata anche una meditazione, o meglio un
<<discorso
secondo>>, Filo', che mi ha richiesto l'uso quasi
metalinguistico
(e in una situazione oscuramente costrittiva) del
dialetto dei
luoghi-luogo dove sono nato e sempre vissuto.
Il dialetto usato
nel filo' e' press'a poco quello che si continua
ancora a parlare
nella valle del Soligo (alto Trevigiano), con
sfumature diverse
per vocaboli, modi di dire, inflessioni; che,
come sempre, si
riferiscono a strette frange di ceti, a gruppi minimi,
a singole
localita'. cosi', ad esempio, coesistono se e si (piu'
agreste) per se,
e come, 'fa, cofa' (raro comodo) per come. Analogamente
noi lo si
trovera' piu' a Soligo che a Pieve, mentre <<th>> (reso con
zh) varia
moltissimo ed e' tanto piu' marcato quanto piu' ci si
allontana dai
centri dei paesi. E se certi vocaboli appariranno al
lettore di oggi
quasi il risultato di un restauro( ad es. fursi per forse),
cio' e' dovuto al
fatto che io continuo ad avere nell'orecchio il
dialetto quale si
parlava nella mia infanzia, nella Cal Santa abitata
da gente del
popolo; e che certo era assai piu' caratterizzato,
soprattutto per
l'abbondanza dei modi di dire originali. Ma bisogna
riconoscere che
la parlata attuale e' meno consunta di quanto potrebbe
apparire di primo
acchito; esistono vere parole di oggi, come inbulona'
e simili,
pienamente integrate all'interno di un ritmo di autoconservazione
e addirittura di
arricchimento, per certi aspetti. e' un segno di vitalita',
stranita,
<<in limine>>, esile e intenso come un filo di sangue. Pesanti
sono in questi
scritti certe violazioni della sintassi, certe
semplificazioni
morfologiche o smarginamenti lessicali, ma non tali da
snaturare
l'insieme. Il dialetto e' in fin dei conti un'assoluta
liberta', capace
tuttavia di tracciarsi limiti congrui/mutevoli.
Ma che puo'
essere oggi ormai un piccolo dialetto (ben lontano anche
dal veneto
illustre e dai suoi esempi letterari), soprattutto per chi
lo ha sempre
parlato e lo sente sparire dalla sua bocca, <<al di sotto>>
di ogni volonta?
E' in ogni caso la misura, tragicamente confusa al
tempo-vita, nella
quale si presenta tutto cio' che e' instabile,
effimero,
non-certo; e' la storia di un assordamento e ammutolimento
imposti
dall'esterno in modo piu' subdolo che per una fattura. Ne' cio'
attualmente si
verifica per la forza compensatrice di una grande
lingua (grande
cultura) quale poteva dare l'impressione di essere
(e in parte era)
anche l'italiano illustre e monumentale, che si
imponeva dopo il
dialetto, anzi gli si sovrapponeva tutto sommato
lasciandolo
pressoche' indenne.
Il dialetto
comunque, per chi si sia trovato nella sorte di parlarlo
accanto alla
lingua, in una specie di diglossia quasi rimossa, si pone
veramente come
<<primo mistero>> che sfugge a ogni possibile
contemplazione
oltre che ad ogni distacco obiettivante. E' una
situazione che
riguarda una notevole parte degli italiani, anche se
in forme diverse
e difficilmente paragonabili tra loro, e che le
statistiche
dicono pulviscolarmente mutevole di anno in anno.
Di queste
esperienze restano privi gli appartenenti a quella estesa
fascia che
conosce, bene o male, soltanto la lingua (ma <<quale>>,poi?);
mentre al polo
ppposto della deprivazione, e con ben maggiore pericolo, stanno coloro che
conoscendo soltanto la parlata dialettale vi
restano, alla
lettera <<forclusi>>.
Competenza
semi-incompetente, prestazione che quasi non si avverte
come tale,
autentico mezzo di contrasto rispetto ai luminosi e
iperconsci
fenomeni che si verificano nel <<parlare la lingua>>, il
dialetto appare
come la metafora- ed e' per un certo verso la realta'-
di ogni eccesso,
inimmaginabilita', sovrabbondare sorgivo o stagnare
ambiguo del fatto
linguistico nella sua piu' profonda natura. Esso
resta carico
della vertigine del passato, dei megasecoli in cui si e'
estesa,
infiltrata, suddivisa, ricomposta, in cui e' morta e risorta
<<la>>
lingua (canto, ritmo, muscoli danzanti, sogno, ragione,
funzionalita')
entro una violentissima deriva che fa tremare di
inquietudine
perche' vi si tocca, con la lingua (nelle sue due accezioni
di organo fisico
e sistema di parole) il nostro non sapere di dove
la lingua venga,
nel momento in cui viene, monta come latte: perfetta
opposizione, in
questo, all'altra lingua, quella <<alta>>, apprezzabile
(almeno
apparentemente) come una distinta totalita' lessicale e
morfosintattica,
passibile di uso e di manovre- mentre la corrente
infera del
parlato dialettale <<fa uso>>. E' la sperimentazione di una
oralita' (zona di
nutrimento, <<fase>>, ecc.), l'oracolarita',
oratoria minima
eppure forte di tutto il viscoso che la permea
riconnettendola
direttamente a tutti i contesti ambientali, biologici,
<<cosmici>>,
liberando entro di essi il desiderio di espressione e
l'espressione. Il
dialetto e' sentito come veniente di la' dove non
e' scrittura
(quella che ha solo migliaia di anni) ne' <<grammatica>>:
luogo, allora, di
un logos che resta sempre <<erchomenos>>, che mai
si raggela in un
taglio di evento, che rimane <<quasi>> infante pur
nel suo dirsi,
che e' comunque lontano da ogni trono. Riversato entro
la terra,
connesso/disconnesso in tale <<umilta'>>, questo logos
parla attraverso
le mille bocche degli <<umili>>, e comunque nei
milioni di
<<errori>>, di vagabondaggi individuali, misteriosissimi
ribelli, in cui
si consumano i canoni di ieri e di oggi, si celano
quelli di domani:
ma solo per essere, in qualche modo, comicizzati in
partenza. Il
dialetto si annuncia come il terreno vago in cui langue
e parole tendono
a identificarsi, e ogni territorialita' sfuma in
quelle contigue.
E qui si
aprirebbe, particolarmente emozionato, il discorso sulla
situazione
neolatina, sul risucchio dal basso (con relativa distorsione
entro l'oralita'
perpetua) di cui e' oggetto il latino, l'arcilingua,
arciscolpita in
lapidi, la lingua imperiale e definitiva: ma doppiata
per altro da un
freschisssimo volgare antiistituzionale. E bisognerebbe
soffermarsi sui
giraevolta, rinascite, metamorfosi, splitting di ogni
genere propri
dell'area linguistica neolatina e forse non riscontrabili
in forma cosi'
sfacciata e significativa in altra area.
Per questo al
<<semi-diglossico>> che <<vede doppio>> e che parla su
un doppio binario
di sistemi assai vicini, in generale, ma divaricati
nella
lorodestinazione, deve far paura scrivere il dialetto che guida
il gioco pur
<<sentendosi>> in relativa deficienza rispetto alla
lingua e che
permane nel suo essere (<<volversi>>?) pulsione e
gorgoglio
somatico: di un continuum e di pluriformita' cangianti,
omologhi a quelli
della vita, calati in essa e insieme galleggianti
ai suoi limiti
superiori, <<verso>> il simbolo. Resta poi l'enorme
diversita' delle
motivazioni dei singoli autori dialettali, specie
oggi, e di quanto
in esse si nasconde.
La dialettalia',
tuttavia, aveva grantito per secoli un certo
confortevole e
implicito sentimento di coesione e di durata, sia
pure entro limiti
ristretti e secondo le proporzioni del sapere
e non sapere dei
parlanti. Ora la sua natura pulviscolare-fluida-
interreticolare,
e soprattutto restia alla rigidita' dei reticoli
<<nazionali>>,
la sua natura di inconscio che, appunto, <<esplode>>
lenta, si rivela
proprio nell'attimo in cui la stessa fonte
dell'oralita' e'
minacciata, ed ogni inconscio, ogni <<matrita'>>,
rischiano di
essere cancellati. D'altra parte la lingua nazionale
e' in pericolo di
diventare esangue, amorfa, pidocchiosa di
stereotipi e
cascami video-burocratici proprio nel momento in
cui s'impone: ma
in ritardo e quando gia' appare abbastanza inutile
perche' parlata
in un'area sempre piu' ristretta (rispetto alle
grandi lingue), e
quindi <<abbassata>> a sua volta a livello di
un dialetto ma
senza averne certe indefinibili <<facolta' di
adattamento>>.
Allora, la situazione del parlante e dello scrivente
italiano e' delle
piu' precarie, angoscianti folli; vi si spira
genocidio intorno
e dentro, anche se ancora in sordina.
Sacrificarsi a un
attimo che e' di ritualita'/scontro perlustrando
i terreni
dialettali e scrivendoli-descrivendoli con un inevitabile
effetto di
distorsione e di <<indeterminazione>>, appare giustificato
anche se non si
sa quanto produttivo. Resta legato in ogni caso a un
atteggiamento che
non puo' non esser fuori di <<questo>> tempo,
proprio perche'
arrischiato entro un tempo dalla freccia e duree
diverse; e per
questo ha a che fare quasi unicamente con la poesia,
di rado con la
prosa (intese nelle loro piu' ovvie e necessarie
accezioni). Ma
per questo motivo il contatto con i dialetti, uccisi
e mai morti,
puntiformi ma con agganci ed echi nelle piu' incredibili
lontananze, e'
capace di inquadrare anche se in termini cifrati la
piu' smagliante
apertura su alterita', futuri, attive dissolvenze.
Il dialetto non
puo' aver a che fare con riesumazioni o imbalsamazioni
<<da
riserva>>. Deve essere sentito come guida (al di la' di
qualunque ipotesi sul suo destino) per individuare
indizi di nuove
realta' che
premono ad uscire.
"
---
as you could see
this Zanzotto's letter it is dense of meaning,
ciao da
rinaldo.Return-Path:
<NICO88@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr
1997 14:04:50 -0500 (EST)
From:
NICO88@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
part#3 Fellini & Piero Tosi (related Casanova film).
ha! bene bene,
grazie Rinaldo....
questa fotografia
di Felllini e Tosi causa un sorriso,
dispetto di
questo addolorato giorno. (<----
thank god for italian
dictionaries!)
i feel ignorant,
ive never seen Casanova, i should, i should- (and i will, i
will)
once again, i
really appreciate yer taking the time to send me those
Fellini/Zanzotto
letters, which ive been bugging my dad to help me translate,
and as soon as he
does i'll write to you with comments. thanks again!
arrivederci,
....ginny
:( ciao allen! nostra meravigliosa
Bodhisattva!.....................
To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: part#3
Fellini & Piero Tosi (related Casanova film).
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\IMMAGINI\FELLINI\FP.JPG;
In-Reply-To:
References:
ginny,
i hope u are
content 'bout, i post u something linked up with
Fellini's
Casanova film, as regards the set-designer Piero Tosi who
worked with
directors as Visconti, Fellini, Paolini & Monicelli.
His connection
with Fellini:
Fellini convinced
Tosi to deal with costume designer of Casanova.
The poor man
accepted to condition of work in solitude and
without the
breath of the Maestro on the neck. Fellini did to prepare
a distant studio
from the set. Perfect! But behind his shoulders there
was a closed door
to key. he shear begin to work but after two hours
the door opened
and Fellini was there to browse among the designed sheets.
Fellini praised
to Tosi with his chanting voice. Tosi understand that
the door
communicated with the Fellini's studio. Then Tosi left the
Casanova film!
Piero Tosi worked
in 2 films directed by Fellini
1) "Toby
Dammit" & 2) Satyricon.
i give u a photo
of Fellini & Tosi on the set.
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Allen
Ginsberg.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
ginny, i write
the previous letter before the internet & telly
gimme the sad
news of the death of Allen Ginsberg, now this
century is at his
end & if i can see what's coming i'm in a
great trouble...
thanx for yr mantra, yr Rinaldo.To:
NICO88@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Zanzotto
on the Web.
Cc:
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\ATL2.GIF; C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\BACKBU~1.GIF;
C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\FORTOP.GIF; C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\FOTOZAN.JPG;
C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\HEADER.GIF; C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\INEQUA~1.GIF;
C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\T_ZANZ~1.JPG; C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\ZANZOT1.HTM;
C:\INTERNET\ZANZOTTO\ZANZOT2.HTM;
In-Reply-To:
References:
ciao ginny,
perhaps u are
already know but i email u some references 'bout
Andrea Zanzotto
on the Web, i hope this is useful for u. the
books 'bout
Zanzotto i have are dated circa 1980, but there is some
interesting interview
concerning his poetry. btw Andrea Zanzotto
e Mario Luzi was
the only italian poets who payed homages to
Allen Ginsberg as
a poet,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
p.s.
come sta andando
il tuo italiano?
Return-Path:
<matteo@endoxa.it>
From: Matteo Cattaneo
<matteo@endoxa.it>
To:
"'rinaldo@gpnet.it'" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: URL
VeneziaPoesia
Date: Sun, 13 Apr
1997 15:13:59 +0200
-----Messaggio
originale-----
Da: Rinaldo Rasa [SMTP:rinaldo@GPNET.IT]
Inviato: giovedì 10 aprile 1997 19.41
A: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
Oggetto:
cari beat,please
check
http://www.italynet.com/veneziapoesia/default.com
there is that
Comune di Venezia creates a poetry
meeting in july
97. noticed the poet Nanni Balestrini the
ultraleftist poet
in the 70s.
ciao da
Rinaldo.
[Matteo] Ciao Rinaldo,
non riesco a
controllare l'indirizzo di venezia poesia,
mi potresti dire
in quali giorni di luglio si svolgerà il meeting?
Ti ringrazio,
ciao da
Matteo.
To: Matteo
Cattaneo <matteo@endoxa.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: URL
VeneziaPoesia
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>
>
>-----Messaggio
originale-----
>Da: Rinaldo Rasa [SMTP:rinaldo@GPNET.IT]
>Inviato: giovedì 10 aprile 1997 19.41
>A: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
>Oggetto:
>
>cari
beat,please check
>http://www.italynet.com/veneziapoesia/default.com
>there is that
Comune di Venezia creates a poetry
>meeting in
july 97. noticed the poet Nanni Balestrini the
>ultraleftist
poet in the 70s.
>
>ciao da
> Rinaldo.
>[Matteo] Ciao Rinaldo,
>non riesco a
controllare l'indirizzo di venezia poesia,
>mi potresti
dire in quali giorni di luglio si svolgerà il meeting?
>Ti ringrazio,
ciao da
> Matteo.
>
caro matteo credo
che il sito in questione sia ancora in
allestimento,
infatti come hai notato la biografia di
nanni balestrini
e' linkata in modo error, vedro' di fare
il possibile. se
non ti dispiace mi puoi dare qualche notizia
di te? quando hai
un po' di tempo per scrivere. io sono un
tecnico nella
scuola media e appassionato di poesia.
ciao da
Rinaldo
Venezia,Mestre
rasa@gpnet.it
ps puoi testare
il seguente url
http://tvzone.nexus.it
che fino a pochi
giorni fa mi dava la pagina di Luther Blisset
e ora non so cosa
sia successo? mi faresti un grande piacere
io uso l'Explore
3 dell MS.
buona domenica.
fatti vivo!To: John Mitchell <mitchell@augsburg.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: THANX.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
John wrote:
>Have no
comments or addenda, Rinaldo, but just
wanted to say I am always
>delighted by
your <not competent Beat>Language and poems. // Giovanni M.
John, dou read
italian?this wld be great! thanx for yr kindle words &
manu apologies if
my language style is'nt refined,
ciao da Rinaldo,
a not competent beat.Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr
1997 10:06:30 +0200 (MET DST)
X-Sender:
rasa@pop.gpnet.it (Unverified)
To: webmaster@gpnet.it
From: Rinaldo
RASA <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: MAIL BOX
BLOCCATA
Cc: gpet@gpnet.it
la mail box
rasa@gpnet.it
risulta bloccata
dalle ore 6 del 25 aprile 1997
grazie se potete
aiutarmi.
rinaldo Rasa.
tel. 041 5317058
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ENORMI
RALLENTAMENTI
Date: Fri, 25 Apr
1997 10:35:49 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
MAIL BOX BLOCCATA
E RALLENTAMENTO
ENORME DELLA
LINEA
COSA FARE?
GRAZIE A CHI
RISPONDE, ANCHE SE E' FESTA...
rinaldo@gpnet.it
tFrom
gpnet.it!rasa Fri Apr 25 11:28:12 1997
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Received: from
rasa by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.90 #1) id m0wKhIR-000rj7C; Fri,
25 Apr 1997 11:28:03 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-Id:
<m0wKhIR-000rj7C@gpnet.it>
From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: sheena
Date: Fri, 25 Apr
1997 11:25:36 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer:
Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Hi, people!!!
It's the first
time I have heard something of Ramones.
I'm used to
listening to some hard-core music, &
I really love Sex
Pistols, but when I Heard "Sheena is a
punk rocker"
I found it GREAT!!!
Please, tell me
what are the most famous and the best songs
of this cool
group!
(I'm seventeen
and I'm from Venice, Italy)
Bye!
Federika
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ENORMI
RALLENTAMENTI
Date: Fri, 25 Apr
1997 10:35:49 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
MAIL BOX BLOCCATA
E RALLENTAMENTO
ENORME DELLA
LINEA
COSA FARE?
GRAZIE A CHI
RISPONDE, ANCHE SE E' FESTA...
rinaldo@gpnet.it
tFrom
gpnet.it!rasa Fri Apr 25 11:28:12 1997
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Received: from
rasa by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.90 #1) id m0wKhIR-000rj7C; Fri,
25 Apr 1997 11:28:03 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-Id:
<m0wKhIR-000rj7C@gpnet.it>
From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: sheena
Date: Fri, 25 Apr
1997 11:25:36 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer:
Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Hi, people!!!
It's the first
time I have heard something of Ramones.
I'm used to
listening to some hard-core music, &
I really love Sex
Pistols, but when I Heard "Sheena is a
punk rocker"
I found it GREAT!!!
Please, tell me
what are the most famous and the best songs
of this cool
group!
(I'm seventeen
and I'm from Venice, Italy)
Bye!
Federika
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ME &
YOU
Date: Fri, 25 Apr
1997 11:45:02 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
ME & YOU by
Federika & the BBB from Venice, Italy.
1 (Federika)
I am really out
of voice
I think that my
only choice
is by now to rush
away
and to have to
say:
"I had not a
big success
I did make a real
mess!"
2 (Kata)
I'm tha singer of
tha band
I'm not sure to
reach the end
I do hate Fede's
voice
so I'm happy of
her choice
but i admit: she
is my friend
so to her my voice
I'll lend
CHORUS (Federika
& Kata)
This is our first
song
tell us: is it so
wrong?
Yeah, we do know
it
but it will
remain a shit!
-----
Now: what do you
think about this wonderful song?
My friend & I
have a little group that play metal and punk music...
email your
opinions to rasa@gpnet.it
thanx very much!
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ME &
YOU
Date: Fri, 25 Apr
1997 11:45:02 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
ME & YOU by
Federika & the BBB from Venice, Italy.
1 (Federika)
I am really out
of voice
I think that my
only choice
is by now to rush
away
and to have to
say:
"I had not a
big success
I did make a real
mess!"
2 (Kata)
I'm tha singer of
tha band
I'm not sure to
reach the end
I do hate Fede's
voice
so I'm happy of
her choice
but i admit: she
is my friend
so to her my
voice I'll lend
CHORUS (Federika
& Kata)
This is our first
song
tell us: is it so
wrong?
Yeah, we do know
it
but it will
remain a shit!
-----
Now: what do you
think about this wonderful song?
My friend & I
have a little group that play metal and punk music...
email your
opinions to rasa@gpnet.it
thanx very much!
Return-Path:
<ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sat, 26 Apr
1997 18:27:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: U
think i'm mad... ?
i liked the
beetle poem
nina
To: gpet@gpnet.it
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ora
tutto funziona
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Ringrazio per
aver
ripristinato il
collegamento
email
interrottosi dal
25 apr 97.
per favore potete
dirmi la causa?
ciao da Rinaldo
Rasa
rasa@gpnet.it
rinaldo@gpnet.itReturn-Path:
<gpet@gpnet.it>
X-Sender:
gpet@pop.gpnet.it
Date: Mon, 28 Apr
1997 14:32:04 +0200
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Gianfranco
Petteno' <gpet@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: ora
tutto funziona
At 10.47 28/04/97
+0200, you wrote:
>Ringrazio per
aver
>ripristinato
il
>collegamento
email
>interrottosi
dal 25 apr 97.
>
>per favore
potete dirmi la causa?
>
>ciao da
Rinaldo Rasa
>rasa@gpnet.it
>rinaldo@gpnet.it
>
>
>
Il disco della
posta e' stato bloccato dalle mailbox di alcuni utenti che
contenevano
svariate decine di Mbyte di allegati.
Cordiali saluti
--------------------------
Gianfranco
Petteno'
GP Net -
Pellegrini S.p.A.
--------------------------
Return-Path:
<gpet@gpnet.it>
X-Sender:
gpet@pop.gpnet.it
Date: Mon, 28 Apr
1997 19:04:37 +0200
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Gianfranco
Petteno' <gpet@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: ora
tutto funziona
At 18.39 28/04/97
+0200, you wrote:
>At 14.32
28/04/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>At 10.47
28/04/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>>Ringrazio
per aver
>>>ripristinato
il
>>>collegamento
email
>>>interrottosi
dal 25 apr 97.
>>>
>>>per
favore potete dirmi la causa?
>>>
>>>ciao
da Rinaldo Rasa
>>>rasa@gpnet.it
>>>rinaldo@gpnet.it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Il disco
della posta e' stato bloccato dalle mailbox di alcuni utenti che
>>contenevano
svariate decine di Mbyte di allegati.
>>
>>Cordiali
saluti
>>
>>
>>--------------------------
>>Gianfranco
Petteno'
>>
>>GP Net -
Pellegrini S.p.A.
>>--------------------------
>>
>grazie per la
spiegazione.
>mi pare che
sia lo stesso
>problema
accaduto agli
>inizi di
dicembre 96.
>cosa si puo'
fare per
>evitarlo in
futuro.
>
>cari saluti
da Rinaldo.
>
>
Ho proposto di
porre una quota massima alle mailbox degli utenti ma questa
proposta e' parsa
antipatica (a me pare peggio bloccare il sistema). La
soluzione
definitiva consiste in un prossimo trasloco della posta su un
hard disk molto
piu' capiente.
Saluti
--------------------------
Gianfranco
Petteno'
GP Net -
Pellegrini S.p.A.
--------------------------
To: Gianfranco
Petteno' <gpet@gpnet.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: ora
tutto funziona
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 14.32 28/04/97
+0200, you wrote:
>At 10.47
28/04/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>Ringrazio
per aver
>>ripristinato
il
>>collegamento
email
>>interrottosi
dal 25 apr 97.
>>
>>per
favore potete dirmi la causa?
>>
>>ciao da
Rinaldo Rasa
>>rasa@gpnet.it
>>rinaldo@gpnet.it
>>
>>
>>
>Il disco
della posta e' stato bloccato dalle mailbox di alcuni utenti che
>contenevano
svariate decine di Mbyte di allegati.
>
>Cordiali
saluti
>
>
>--------------------------
>Gianfranco
Petteno'
>
>GP Net -
Pellegrini S.p.A.
>--------------------------
>
grazie per la
spiegazione.
mi pare che sia
lo stesso
problema accaduto
agli
inizi di dicembre
96.
cosa si puo' fare
per
evitarlo in
futuro.
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.To: Gianfranco Petteno' <gpet@gpnet.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: ora
tutto funziona
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 19.04 28/04/97
+0200, you wrote:
>At 18.39
28/04/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>At 14.32
28/04/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>>At
10.47 28/04/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>>>Ringrazio
per aver
>>>>ripristinato
il
>>>>collegamento
email
>>>>interrottosi
dal 25 apr 97.
>>>>
>>>>per
favore potete dirmi la causa?
>>>>
>>>>ciao
da Rinaldo Rasa
>>>>rasa@gpnet.it
>>>>rinaldo@gpnet.it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Il
disco della posta e' stato bloccato dalle mailbox di alcuni utenti che
>>>contenevano
svariate decine di Mbyte di allegati.
>>>
>>>Cordiali
saluti
>>>
>>>
>>>--------------------------
>>>Gianfranco
Petteno'
>>>
>>>GP
Net - Pellegrini S.p.A.
>>>--------------------------
>>>
>>grazie
per la spiegazione.
>>mi pare
che sia lo stesso
>>problema
accaduto agli
>>inizi di
dicembre 96.
>>cosa si
puo' fare per
>>evitarlo
in futuro.
>>
>>cari
saluti da Rinaldo.
>>
>>
>Ho proposto
di porre una quota massima alle mailbox degli utenti ma questa
>proposta e'
parsa antipatica (a me pare peggio bloccare il sistema). La
>soluzione
definitiva consiste in un prossimo trasloco della posta su un
>hard disk
molto piu' capiente.
>
>Saluti
>
>
>--------------------------
>Gianfranco
Petteno'
>
>GP Net -
Pellegrini S.p.A.
>--------------------------
>
grazie per la
cortese risposta,
saluti
Rinaldo.To: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@crystal.palace.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T
READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970517173516.27318B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970517230359.00b68324@pop.gpnet.it>
At 17.37 17/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Rinaldo!
>
>fanatstic
message!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>I am drifting
on high, and this jazz rhythms in my head, left over from
>me just
listened to a lil' M Davis flew together with your words and WOW.
>
>Peace,
>Eric
>
>On Sat, 17
May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> K E
R O U
A C
>> IL DOTTOR SAX
>>
>> Libro primo
>> FANTASMI DELLA NOTTE
>> DI PAWTUCKETVILLE
>>
>> 1
>> L'altra
notte ho sognato che stavo seduto sul mar-
>> ciapede
di Moody Street, Pawtucketville, Lowell,
>>
Massachusetts,... Qui a farmez ma porte? Parsonne voyons donc.
>>
>> GOD READS
THIS.
>> DON'T
READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
>>
THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
>>
THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, GOD READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.
>> DON'T
READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
>>
THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
>> THIS.
thake me by hand, GOD, around the midnight, GOD i send u a
>> letter,
GOD if ever u read this, WHY U CREATES MYSELF?, WHY I BORN?,
>> THIS
DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
>> THIS
DON'T READ, PLEASE fantasmi agghiaccianti, fredde, COLD,
>> streets
italiane, tears, cerchietti, bracelets, ASE, GOD READ THIS.DON'T
>> READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.T READ, PL
>> DON'T
READ, PLEASE, god thake by hand Pakistani, WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN?
>> WHY I
BORN? WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN? god thake by hand OLD wo/men,
>> god
thake by hand pacemaker's lawyer, god thake by hand that tatoo GIRL,
>> god
thake by hand by handby handby handby hand
>> WHY I BORN? WHY I RAT?
>> WHY I CLOUD? WHY I
SQUEKING?
>> WHY? WHY?
ever read me!
>> R I
N A L
D O
>>
>
>
thanxalotRoberthereismidnighttimehereinveniceitaly
alotofwarhotdaypassedthrumylife&godwhereisgodwhereis?To:
ncary <ncary@clark.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: A
mute voice on the Estate Battl
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970517173613.3374A-100000@clark.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970517231138.006868ac@pop.gpnet.it>
nina scrive:
>Rinaldo,
>
>Viva your
subversion of the beat list.
>
>
>I can't read
Italian either, but i read Portuguese, so i guess a lot
>
>
>nina
>
>
>
grazie, nina,
gia' altre volte mi hai aiutato con
i tuoi
incoraggiamenti... di cuore rinaldo (at midnighttime...)Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Mon, 26 May
1997 08:04:36 -0400 (EDT)
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
Frank O'Hara, a poetry.
rIaLdO:
you never cease
to amzae me. this pome has been on my mind for several
days, and i
thought of typing it to the list!!!
we are sympatico,
are we not?
love
marie
> "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara
>
> I am not a painter, I am a poet.
> Why? I think I would rather be
> a painter, but I am not. Well,
>
> for instance, Mike Goldberg
> is starting a painting. i drop
> in
> "Sit down and have a ddrink"
he
> says. I drink; we drink. I look
> up. "You have SARDINES in it"
> "Yes, it needed sometime
there"
> "Oh." I go and days go by
> and I drop in again. The painting
> is going on, and I go, and the
> days
> go by, I drop in. The painting is
> finished. "Where's SARDINES?"
> All that's left is just
> letters, "It was too much",
Mike says.
>
> But me? One day I am thinking of
> a color: orange. I write a line
> about orange. Pretty soon it is a
> whole page of words, not lines.
> Then another page. There should
> be
> so much more, not of orange, of
> words, of how terrible orange is
> and life. Days go by. It is even
> in
> prose, I am a real poet. My poem
> is finished and I haven't
> mentioned
> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I
> call
> it ORANGES. And one day in a
> gallery
> I see Mike's painting, called
> SARDINES.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Frank O'Hara, a poetry.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afaee3acddd5@[206.25.67.113]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970526120246.00b80d20@pop.gpnet.it>
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
<"noralf.uib.646:25.05.97.04.02.54"@uib.no>
MaRie wrote:
>rIaLdO:
>you never
cease to amzae me. this pome has been on my mind for several
>days, and i
thought of typing it to the list!!!
>we are
sympatico, are we not?
>love
>marie
>
>
>> "Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara
>>
>> I am not a painter, I am a poet.
>> Why? I think I would rather be
>> a painter, but I am not. Well,
>>
>> for instance, Mike Goldberg
>> is starting a painting. i drop
>> in
>> "Sit down and have a ddrink"
he
>> says. I drink; we drink. I look
>> up. "You have SARDINES in it"
>> "Yes, it needed sometime
there"
>> "Oh." I go and days go by
>> and I drop in again. The painting
>> is going on, and I go, and the
>> days
>> go by, I drop in. The painting is
>> finished. "Where's SARDINES?"
>> All that's left is just
>> letters, "It was too much",
Mike says.
>>
>> But me? One day I am thinking of
>> a color: orange. I write a line
>> about orange. Pretty soon it is a
>> whole page of words, not lines.
>> Then another page. There should
>> be
>> so much more, not of orange, of
>> words, of how terrible orange is
>> and life. Days go by. It is even
>> in
>> prose, I am a real poet. My poem
>> is finished and I haven't
>> mentioned
>> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I
>> call
>> it ORANGES. And one day in a
>> gallery
>> I see Mike's painting, called
>> SARDINES.
>
>
>
>
>
yeas, of course,
we are!To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: who are
we?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.970527102829.29914A-100000@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
References:
<199705271347.GAA19990@netcom.netcom.com>
WHO,
WHO, are we?
i think is a bit
wrong to leave the list
'cuz the amount
of posts
first u must have
an ethical way of life
to justify yr decision
this american
gothic saga
'bout the estate
is sad awright
but the rude men
are also
in a
little cest
i think
as
a poster to the
list
as
a spontanenous
writer
as
thinking machine
yrs rinaldo
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: who are
we?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
WHO,
WHO, are we?
i think is a bit
wrong to leave the list
'cuz the amount
of posts
first u must have
an ethical way of life
to justify yr decision
this american
gothic saga
'bout the estate
is sad awright
but the rude men
are also
in a
little cest
i think
as
a poster to the
list
as
a spontanenous
writer
as
thinking machine
yrs rinaldo
To:
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
SUBscribe BEAT-L
Rinaldo RasaTo: LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
SUBscribe BEAT-L
Rinaldo RasaTo: LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
helpTo:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: WHO,
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
WHO,
WHO, are we?
i think is a bit
wrong to leave the list
'cuz the amount
of posts
i think
as
a poster to the
list
as
a spontaneous
writer
as
a thinking
machine
yrs rinaldo
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: WHO, are
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
WHO,
WHO, are we?
i think is a bit
wrong to leave the list
'cuz the amount
of posts
this american
gothic saga
'bout the estate
is sad awright
but the rude men
are also
in a
little chest
yrs rinaldo
To:
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
helpTo:
judith@WELL.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: cage
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>X-Sender:
judith@mail.well.com
>Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:30:29 -0500
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Judith Kampfner
<judith@WELL.COM>
>Subject: From Nick W-W re Letters
>Comments: cc:
nweir-w@nwu.edu
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>And, Rinaldo,
I don't think any of that Cage archive is on the web at all -
>they're still
working their way through it all. I will check up for you
>though.
>
>Nick W-W
>
>Judith
Kampfner
>Midwest News
and Features
>3813 N. Alta
Vista Terrace, Chicago IL 60613
>ph 773 296
9590: fax 773 296 1692
>
Judith,
thanx a lot for yr
gentle thought, if u hear something 'bout
cage archives on
the web, please, gimme a touch, by email,
ciao da Rinaldo.
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Venice,Italy.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: poem
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
i'm
buried
&
butterflies
eat
my feet
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: McClure
a poetry.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901afb638305758@[141.224.144.84]>
References:
<338FEF4B.102C@bitstream.net>
Dark Brown by Michael McClure
"Oh Ease
Oh Body-Strain Oh Love Oh Ease Me Not!
Wound-Bore"
be real, show organs, show, blood, OH let me
be as a flower. Let ugliness arise without
care
grow side by side with beauty. Oh twist
be real to me. Fly smoke! Meat-real, as
nerves
TENDON
Ion, FLAME, Muscle, not banners but bulks as
we are all 'deer'
and move as beasts. Stalking in our forest
as these are speech-words
Burn them pure as above they rise from
attitude are
stultified. Are shit. Burn
what arises from habit. Let custom
die. Smash patterns and forms let spirit
free to blasting liberty. Smash the
habit shit above!!!!!!!!!
LET PURE BLACK WORDS MOVE FROM THOUGHT
BEHIND
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a
question:jack kerouac bio written by Gerald Nicosia
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
points
first: there's an
italian language translation of the
book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout the JK
life
& works? anyone can tell something?
second:in angst
for the hot shift of the posts from word
to word, but i'm a real beet (sic!) & i
do not understand
why people leaves the B-List.
Yessir,
Jack Kerouac
"Let's go.
Where are we going, man?
I don't know, but we gotta go".
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
SUBscribe BEAT-L
Rinaldo RasaTo: LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
GET BEAT-L
LOG9705 BEAT-LTo: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
original sender
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Hi folks,
>Excuse me
while I pull on my hip boots to wade in here.
>Effective
immediately, all replies to postings on beat-l will go to the
>original
sender, NOT the list, unless otherwise specified.
>
>fred
>
>
hello,
i don't
understand what is happened exactly,
I HAVE NO
RESPONSE FROM THE USUAL LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,
it started
yesterda, on sunday 1 june 1997,
no response &
no idea where my posts are gone,
SAD TIMES,
who is the
ORIGINAL SENDER ?
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
original sender
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Hi folks,
>Excuse me
while I pull on my hip boots to wade in here.
>Effective
immediately, all replies to postings on beat-l will go to the
>original
sender, NOT the list, unless otherwise specified.
>
>fred
>
>
hello,
i don't
understand what is happened exactly,
I HAVE NO
RESPONSE FROM THE USUAL LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,
it started
yesterda, on sunday 1 june 1997,
no response &
no idea where my posts are gone,
SAD TIMES,
who is the
ORIGINAL SENDER ?
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE:List
changes
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Hi folks,
>Excuse me while
I pull on my hip boots to wade in here.
>Effective
immediately, all replies to postings on beat-l will go to the
>original
sender, NOT the list, unless otherwise specified.
>
>fred
>
>
ciao fred,
i don't
understand what is happened exactly,
I HAVE NO
RESPONSE FROM THE USUAL LISTSERV,
it started
yesterda, on sunday 1 june 1997,
no response &
no idea where my posts are gone,
SAD TIMES,
who is the
ORIGINAL SENDER ?
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: List
changes
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3392F633.7F65@pacbell.net>
References:
<970602120847_-296114037@emout10.mail.aol.com>
James,
please give a
chance, i can't obtain
reply to the
listserv of the B-List
every effort i do
is nothing,
if i send a post
i have no reply if
the post was
send,
can u help me,
thanx,
yr Rinaldo.To:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Stauffer's comments on fbi
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%97060215111672@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
At 15.08 02/06/97
EDT, you wrote:
>I'm afraid
cleaning out the hard drives won't do any good.
All the
>archives
areon the server and open to anyone who wishes to view them.
>They won't
even need to notify us or get a warrant.
>
Bill, please i
have no reply by te Listserv,
why? where are
gone my posts if not on the
B-List where i
send them?
thanx for a
reply,
yr Rinaldo.To:
Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: sad
state of affairs
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<339346CA.5F34@together.net>
References:
<l03020900afb8537a8c82@[206.25.67.109]>
<l03020900afb863784e88@[206.25.67.118]> <3393273F.7687@together.net>
At 15.18 02/06/97
-0700, you wrote:
>> Marie
Countryman wrote:
>> >
>> > hi
diane. i think given what has happened, and mostly off list between who
>> > i
appreciate as having balanced minds, who have had to find a kinder and
>> > freeer
exchange of ideas which this list really developed and began to
>> >
evolve into community place/space. until the recent events.
>> >
however, shouted (IN CAPS!!!) insults, swearing, muckraking, not willing to
>> > let
go histrionic and just plain perversity
of approx. 5-10 (generous
>> >
numbers, here!) peple who just basically come barging into the coffee shop,
>> >
rumble on the floor, patrons fleeing, and too damned soaked in testosterone
>> > to
notice that the place IS CLEARING OUT because most of recent sign offs
>> >
have deliberately chosen to join kinder and more inclusionary atmosphere(s).
>> > JH
in chicago: i dig yr project but cant agree with you here.
>> > it
seems like 90% of posts are taken up w/name droppers, travel excusion
>> >
more relevantly private (like so and so will be here tomorrwo, etc) as well
>> > as
name calling best suited to filthy gas station doors, than here.
>> > i
have become disillusioned that some of the movers and shakers of the beat
>> >
renaissance now choose to rail and flail. reminds me too much of JK in
>> >
florida before hemmoraging to death on bathroom floor.
>> > i'm
so disillusioned,
>> > and
this is coming from someone whose very nature is psychotically
> optimistic.
>> > sad
sad sad.
>> >
going off to join ron and all my buddies.
>> > mc
>> > ps
bill again, dont unsub. i need to take a stand for a while.
>> > mc
>
> I am in
total agreement that 90% of the posts in the last month or so
> should not
have been here. I guess what I am saying
is that all of us
> seriously
concerned with sharing ideas on a daily basis, make an
> agreement
that we will only discuss beat things intelligently, with no
> shouting,
namecalling or harrassment. I think it
is important,
>however, that
we be able to maintain a thought flow by repling (re:ing)
>to individual
posts on the list. Why don't we start
now by refusing to
>reply to
flames and eventually maybe we will all have the community we
>want to share
ideas and Bill at CUNY can decide that we don't have to
>type in that
very long beat address every time we want to talk.
>
> DC
>
>
i have no reply
by the listserv
as "yr post
is distribuited to etc."
no feedback from
the listserv...
To: Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: sad
state of affairs
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33936357.74B1@together.net>
References:
<l03020900afb8537a8c82@[206.25.67.109]>
<l03020900afb863784e88@[206.25.67.118]> <3393273F.7687@together.net>
<3.0.1.32.19970602220907.0068b928@pop.gpnet.it>
Diane writes:
>Rinaldo,
>
>Because of
the new rules of the listserv, your post went directly to me
>instead of
the beat-l list. From now on when you
reply to something,
>your message
goes to the person who wrote the message you are responding
>to and not to
the entire beat list. That means you
will be getting less
>mail and the
whole list will not receive your message.
From now on, when
>you reply,
you must erase the name of the person in the Mail to: section
>and type in
instead, BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU in the Mail to: section.
>When you do
that you should get a reply that says, "your post has been
>distributed
to...etc.
>I hope that
explains it for you. I enjoy hearing
from you.
>Diane
>
Diane,
thanx a lot
clarifing the matter, things now seems
to go better, btw
i like a lot the Beat-List!!!!!!
love,
Rinaldo.
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: List
changes
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33930DEA.3A5E@pacbell.net>
References:
<970602120847_-296114037@emout10.mail.aol.com>
<3.0.1.32.19970602190059.0068c104@pop.gpnet.it>
James writes:
>The address I
am using is BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.
>
>Glad to help
if I can, let me know if it works.
>
>How are
things in Venice? Hopefully no Estate
Wars or FBI there!
>
>beeten but
not bowed.
>
>James
>
>
James,
first thanx for
yr reply, now things seems to
go better, btw i
love Beat-List!!!, here venetian things
are as usually,
no FBI in Italy i presume, if the FBI
is backuped the
beat files, in case of a crash of my
electronic
archive hardDisk i can recall the lost posts
from the FBI...
isn't?
love,
Rinaldo. To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
wanted - spiritual mentor
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970604173858_100106.1102_EHU32-2@CompuServe.COM>
References:
joe writes:
>wanted,
spiritual mentor
>
>inspired by
kerouac, burroughs, nietzsche, gaarder, wilde,
>huxley,
voltaire & dickens i need guidance crossing the road.
>
>more a lust
for wisdom than a plea for help, gurus need
>not apply.
>
>joe
>newcastleunitedkingdom
>
>
joe,
it's not picnic
blurs
blur
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To: danneman@Update.UU.SE
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: X
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<339B1FB0.79B5@update.uu.se>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970608211200.0068a654@pop.gpnet.it>
>in case you
wonder it's by NOFX
>
>-daniel
>
i agree, &
plus blur #2,
& other
things... have a look at amiri baraka... for the X...
--rinaldo
from venice,
italy.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: X
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<339B1FB0.79B5@update.uu.se>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970608211200.0068a654@pop.gpnet.it>
X is
black-- amiri
baraka (Leroi Jones)
---
yrs
Rinaldo
* sorry this has
no beat connection *
* i'm a beetle beated *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: old
times--questions--questions...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
how many are we?
150... 250... who he does it know?
i download for
myself the Beat-L archive
month by month
& here there's all
the answers we/i
need (?),
yes, man,
we posters are
the wired point
of what?
dawn/twilight of
the millenium,
'bout what's we
can write
'cuz beat is a
feeling
---
yrs
Rinaldo
* a not competent
beat *
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020902afc1bba05855@[206.25.67.125]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970609191049.0068675c@pop.gpnet.it>
marie:
>hi rinaldo.
if you count all the people in me you culd have a large list: i
>have littel
girls maries and i have tuff teens ~M~ and i have me mc. and a
>hole lotta
others that comeo ut of the hole in my head'
>i love you
>sorry
personal correspondence has gone way down with you. i am going to
>read my pomes
first time ever any pomes this weekend
>i am pretty
excited and nervous
>and before
that i take my friend sarah on canoe ride/dinner for her birthday!
>next week i
will sleep and write to you.
>maries
>
marie,
every time u
write & referring to u as maries i must be
sincerely my mind
is a little trebling as a john cage works
i like this
feeling but when i was asleep & day after day
think time is
fading & here is damned warm here in the medi
land and now is
twilight & green grass is growing & i saw
people looking
thru the open windows & little little bats
are flying &
squit squit & tears for old time were all was
young time was
young & hundred years & hundreds years & we
are nothing &
maybe a digitalized image in the sky of light
& roooaming
planes were flying over my Old Home to the venice
airport & my
heart was compelled & i think the things go wrong
& fall &
my olf father who died in 75 & hey man u go to nothing
& tears was
drinkin' & what's up & flowers burned the sun &
my grandma' was
like these old woman dressed in black in the
alpine mountains
these rocks where people don't know the name of
this or this or
this mountain but many many tales narrating
under a sky filled
with stars twinkling as yr maries & once
& once &
particles but everything is ONE in a dream asleep &
never can die
'cuz the universe crash onto itself & particles
are illusions
& noname & Odisseo & greek & people that has
Old history are
gone & people in the garden & Enea with his
people run away
from greece & went in italy & venice went in
mediterranean
& pilgrims go to the western land & land where now
law&order
rules here anarchy&law rules & only in a dream we can
& pound was
fascist & aragon was commie & europe is here &
the old what we
are is themself & telephone book as
the great
american poem & the weather report & sky sky sky sky
& everything
is ONE,
i love u marie,
yr Rinaldo.To:
"Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@infinet.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.970609133639.12060B-100000@user2.infinet.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970609191049.0068675c@pop.gpnet.it>
At 13.38 09/06/97
-0400, Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:
>On Mon, 9 Jun
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> DEAR
friends,
>> i
download for myself the Beat-L archive
>> month by
month & here there's all
>
>I would like
to also download the Beat-L archive.
>Can you
instruct me how to do this?
>Thank you!
>
>
>Michael L.
Buchenroth
>mike@buchenroth.com
>www.buchenroth.com
>To view
>Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
>go to
>www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
>
>
DEAR Michael,
first u can get
the list of file:
1) step one,
To:LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the body of
the email u must write
GET FILE
after a while the
list server send u a list like this
*
* NOTEBOOK archives for the list
* (Monthly notebook)
* rec last - change
* filename
filetype GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs date
time Remarks
* --------
-------- --- --- --- ----- -----
-------- -------- -------------------------------
BEAT-L
LOG9505 PRV OWN V 80
35 95/05/30 11:11:34 Started on Mon, 29 May 1995 22:22:45 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9506 PRV OWN V 83
2252 95/06/30 22:59:02 Started on Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:33:48 EDT
BEAT-L
LOG9507 PRV OWN V 119
4808 95/07/31 23:50:25 Started on Sat, 1 Jul 1995 00:54:41 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9508 PRV OWN V 85
5644 95/08/31 22:37:40 Started on Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:21:34 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9509 PRV OWN V 85
5007 95/09/30 20:34:51 Started on Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:56:14 +0100
BEAT-L
LOG9510 PRV OWN V 80
5765 95/10/31 19:02:11 Started on Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:04:27 +0800
BEAT-L
LOG9511 PRV OWN V 242 10949 95/11/30 23:55:16 Started on
Wed, 1 Nov 1995 02:11:56 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9512 PRV OWN V 80
9231 95/12/31 20:17:32 Started on Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:56:09 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9601 PRV OWN V 84
4050 96/01/31 22:17:07 Started on Mon, 1 Jan 1996 11:37:24 -0800
BEAT-L
LOG9602 PRV OWN V 144
9734 96/02/29 22:24:44 Started on Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:12 +0000
BEAT-L
LOG9603 PRV OWN V 81 12443 96/03/31 09:01:37 Started on
Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:52:40 -0600
BEAT-L
LOG9604 PRV OWN V 81
9898 96/04/30 22:15:33 Started on Sun, 31 Mar 1996 11:31:45 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9605 PRV OWN V 80
6312 96/05/31 23:09:11 Started on Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:38:52 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9606 PRV OWN V 112
6829 96/06/30 19:25:53 Started on Sat, 1 Jun 1996 09:40:32 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9607 PRV OWN V 149
3140 96/07/31 10:41:17 Started on Mon, 1 Jul 1996 16:07:36 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9608 PRV OWN V 80
5393 96/08/31 22:43:36 Started on Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:06:58 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9609 PRV OWN V 119 11222 96/09/30 23:52:39 Started on
Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:54:29 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9610 PRV OWN V 242 31185 96/10/31 21:00:00 Started on
Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:29:03 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9611 PRV OWN V 113 21865 96/11/30 19:06:04 Started on
Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:37:27 EST
BEAT-L
LOG9612 PRV OWN V 83 25562 96/12/31 22:59:04 Started on
Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:21:05 -0800
BEAT-L
LOG9701 PRV OWN V 84
9055 97/01/09 11:40:40 Started on Wed, 1 Jan 1997 02:28:05 -0500
this is stopped
on Jan but u can retrieve the archive until may97.
step two: (it's
possible skip step one)
To:LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the body of
the email u must write
GET BEAT-L
LOG9701 BEAT-L
and u obtain the
january archive of the beat-list
if u want to
retrive the entire archive, be patient,
& write GET
BEAT-L LOG9505 for may 95 archive
& write GET
BEAT-L LOG9506 for june 95 archive
& so on...
i hope this
information help, if u haven't already
retrieved the
manner how obtain beat-l archive
the above
statement works for, if u have any problem
gimme a feedback,
glad to help,
yr Rinaldo
from
venice,italy.
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun
1997 06:44:30 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
& everything
is ONE,
i love u marie,
yr Rinaldo.
_________
yes, rinaldo, it
is. i am you and you are me and he is we and we are all
together....
john lennon was a
wonderful man
i love u too
rinaldo. you bring sunshine to me on rainy days
yr
maries
To: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020908afc2a1104068@[206.25.67.125]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970609223306.00cdf204@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020902afc1bba05855@[206.25.67.125]>
<3.0.1.32.19970609191049.0068675c@pop.gpnet.it>
MARIE(S):
>&
everything is ONE,
>i love u
marie,
>yr Rinaldo.
>_________
>yes, rinaldo,
it is. i am you and you are me and he is we and we are all
>together....
>john lennon
was a wonderful man
>i love u too
rinaldo. you bring sunshine to me on rainy days
>yr
>maries
>
damn! here 2p.m.
! hot afternoon ! drunk a bottle (or two) !
i must go to my
broker at 3p.m. damn! he go away ! damn! damn!
damn! damn! the
sun hit my head ! damn! damn! u marie sorry but
maries but maries
! sprinkler the garden ! damn! yes if i lost
my money ! damn!
drink a bottle or two ! same insurance were
joyce worked in
the early century this ! damn ! damn joyce !
damn! u want me
distressed ! damn! brokers ! & u joyce why are
against pound !
damn joyce! damn! damn! hot afternoon !
when lennon died
i was in the factory & a bunch of guys tell
me the news &
in 1980 everyone was sad, i men working class
wo/men
sorry! i lost my
calm... damned broker ! i wish to be Dante Alighieri
& put him in
the hell !
sorry marie,
i love you,
Rinaldo * all
his own *Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun
1997 13:23:04 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender:
country@sover.net (Unverified)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
i love you.
damn damn damn
gov't wont give
us money for disability. they belong in hell with yr broker
so if you have
any influence on dante's ghost, remind him to damn them too!
cant work
no money
damn damn damn
but guess what
i love you
so all cannot be
lost.
marie
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020905afc442915853@[206.25.67.125]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970610144042.00688d0c@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020908afc2a1104068@[206.25.67.125]>
<3.0.1.32.19970609223306.00cdf204@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020902afc1bba05855@[206.25.67.125]>
<3.0.1.32.19970609191049.0068675c@pop.gpnet.it>
marie writes:
>i love you.
>damn damn
damn
>gov't wont
give us money for disability. they belong in hell with yr broker
>so if you
have any influence on dante's ghost, remind him to damn them too!
>cant work
>no money
>damn damn
damn
>but guess
what
>i love you
>so all cannot
be lost.
>marie
>
>
marie,
now i'm a bit
calm dammit! air forced room damn! in the
office dammit!
signature oops! zip code ! oops damn! my
mind whirls
around dammit! (i'm calm, marie!) i put you
in the HELL i put
you in the HELL damned! now i know wh
at pound wrote
'bout money dammit! but i'm not a solid
poet to blame
these guys dammit! (i'm calm, i'm calm) o
h sir can u put a
signature here ! yes madame! & here y
es madame ! &
here ok ok ok ok! this air forced room is
chocking myself !
have u all the paper ! this for life
! dammit (i'm
CALM I'M CALM) now this against catch fir
e dammit! this
for LIFE ! dammit & damn my LIFE on the
paper ! i'm calm
i'm calm, hot days, i'm calm damn why
i'm not a BIG
POETRY & PUT THESE GUYS IN THE PLACE WHER
E THEY MUST GO!
i love you,
marie, (i'm calm NOW), i forgot to ask how
are u? me are an
idiot sure!!!!!
yr Rinaldo.
To: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
American Haikus
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970611175548.00691fc4@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
References:
<s39eba79.097@weber.edu>
sara wrote:
>I love Jack
Kerouac. Why can't I find any men like him alive today? Fucked
>up,
intellectual, hard-assed, tender, goofy, genius..... Damn. Anyway, I
>really love
his American Haikus. Here are a couple of my own, inspired by him:
> My Grandpa dyes his hair.
> He fucked up.
> Now it's purple.
>
>
> Every night I fall asleep
> with a dead author
> in my hands.
>
> --Sara Feustle
>
>
sara,
if u like join
with the bohemian
list
too for yr
feeling with
haiku
To:LISTSERV@SJUVM.stjohns.edu
in the body
SUBSCRIBE
BOHEMIAN name
ciao da
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun
1997 18:32:03 -0400
From: Sara
Feustle <sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re:
American Haikus
X-Sender:
sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Thanks!!! I just
joined it; hopefully it's as cool as BEAT-L. --Sara
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun
1997 18:37:55 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
i love you,
rinaldo.
i'm broke and i
cant work and the govt wont help, and it could get serious.
other than that,
i took canoe ride
down mad river with dearest friend for her 45 birthday.
the days were
wonderful.
i am home now,
trying to write myself to sleep
on friday i read
pomes in plattsberg, ny, usa for very first time ever
little
nervous.
me
To: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
American Haikus
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970611183203.0068e990@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970612002044.00bcdb50@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19970611175548.00691fc4@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
<s39eba79.097@weber.edu>
sara writes:
>Thanks!!! I
just joined it; hopefully it's as cool as BEAT-L. --Sara
>
>
>
i'm glad!
CIAO by
Rinaldo
from
venice.To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: old
times--questions--questions...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afc49fbb3bd7@[206.25.67.110]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970611231556.0068c9b4@pop.gpnet.it> <l03020905afc442915853@[206.25.67.125]>
<3.0.1.32.19970610144042.00688d0c@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020908afc2a1104068@[206.25.67.125]>
<3.0.1.32.19970609223306.00cdf204@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020902afc1bba05855@[206.25.67.125]> <3.0.1.32.19970609191049.0068675c@pop.gpnet.it>
marie:
>i love you,
rinaldo.
>i'm broke and
i cant work and the govt wont help, and it could get serious.
>other than
that,
>i took canoe
ride down mad river with dearest friend for her 45 birthday.
>the days were
wonderful.
>i am home
now, trying to write myself to sleep
>on friday i
read pomes in plattsberg, ny, usa for very first time ever
>little
>nervous.
>me
>
>
i'm going to
sleep, today here 30 celsius, sun sun sun sun
are u going in
canoe? wonderful, fresh, trees, clouds, sun
thru the trees,
BUONA FORTUNA per il tuo reading!!! ciao d
a Rinaldo! ciao
ciao!!Return-Path: <country@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun
1997 11:21:47 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: dear
friend
rinaldo
your poem of
emily dickenson was a balm to my heart and soul.
i'm gong to read
some of my pomes tonight
i'm scared, but
i'm happy too!
i'll be back
sunday with lots of tales to tell.
love
maries
To: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Non-Alcoholic Jack
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970614131142.006931c8@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
References:
Sara writes:
>I think that
as far as Kerouac, Ginsberg AND Burroughs are concerned, the
>genius would
have been there with or without the drugs/alcohol. The
>intelligence,
talent and sensitivity of those three men are not something
>that can be
gotten by simply getting fucked up . As a former alcoholic, I
>just used
alcohol to escape; life and stuff inspired me to write whether I
>was drunk or
not. --Sara
>
Sara,
u are awright!
some
people are still
wiping away one's
tears
yr
rinaldoTo: Greg
Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Italy
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970614192031.0068c4a0@popmail.voicenet.com>
References:
greg wrote:
>Hello
Rinaldo,
>
>We've never
really spoken on or off list, but I figured I'd talk to you.
>I'm coming to
Italy in July, and I am wondering if you could recommend any
>very COOL or
Beat-type places in Italy. Thanks,
>
>
>Greg
Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com
>
>
dear greg,
i suggest u to
visit the more enyjable old cities of italy
& have a
little effort to learn 'bout the long history of
my patria,
looking at monuments & buildings. this is in my
opinion
sufficient cool & beat,
ciao da
rinaldo.
venice,italy.To:
Sara Feustle <sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Non-Alcoholic Jack
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970615093603.00691fc0@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970614235512.00d708b0@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19970614131142.006931c8@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
Sara writes:
>Thanks,
Rinaldo.:) I'm glad you understand.:) *smile* --Sara
>
>At 11:55 PM
6/14/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>Sara
writes:
>>>I
think that as far as Kerouac, Ginsberg AND Burroughs are concerned, the
>>>genius
would have been there with or without the drugs/alcohol. The
>>>intelligence,
talent and sensitivity of those three men are not something
>>>that
can be gotten by simply getting fucked up . As a former alcoholic, I
>>>just
used alcohol to escape; life and stuff inspired me to write whether I
>>>was
drunk or not. --Sara
>>>
>>Sara,
>>u are
awright!
>>some
>>people
are still
>>wiping
away one's tears
>>
>>yr
>>rinaldo
>>
>
i'm here, sara,
again with "cool" mailing list
To:majordomo@bga.com
in the body writes
subscribe silence
it's a mailing
list devoted to john cage enthusiast,
ciao da
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<elwellg@voicenet.com>
X-Sender:
elwellg@popmail.voicenet.com
Date: Sun, 15 Jun
1997 11:25:11 -0400
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re:
Italy
Very good
Rinaldo! I am going to visit Italy with
friends from France, and
they had already
planned a trip to Florence, ROMA, and Venice, so I'm glad
that you have a
good word for it. I'm eager to learn
about the history as
well.
Grazie!
At 07:10 AM
6/15/97 +0200, you wrote:
>greg wrote:
>>Hello
Rinaldo,
>>
>>We've
never really spoken on or off list, but I figured I'd talk to you.
>>I'm
coming to Italy in July, and I am wondering if you could recommend any
>>very COOL
or Beat-type places in Italy. Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Greg
Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com
>>
>>
>dear greg,
>i suggest u
to visit the more enyjable old cities of italy
>& have a
little effort to learn 'bout the long history of
>my patria,
looking at monuments & buildings. this is in my
>opinion
sufficient cool & beat,
>ciao da
>rinaldo.
>venice,italy.
>
>
Greg Elwell elwellg@voicenet.com
To: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@voicenet.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Italy
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970615112508.006904f8@popmail.voicenet.com>
References:
Buon Viaggio A
Tutti Voi,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
>Very good Rinaldo! I am going to visit Italy with friends from
France, and
>they had
already planned a trip to Florence, ROMA, and Venice, so I'm glad
>that you have
a good word for it. I'm eager to learn
about the history as
>well.
>
>Grazie!
>
>
>At 07:10 AM
6/15/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>greg
wrote:
>>>Hello
Rinaldo,
>>>
>>>We've
never really spoken on or off list, but I figured I'd talk to you.
>>>I'm
coming to Italy in July, and I am wondering if you could recommend any
>>>very
COOL or Beat-type places in Italy.
Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>Greg
Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com
>>>
>>>
>>dear
greg,
>>i suggest
u to visit the more enyjable old cities of italy
>>&
have a little effort to learn 'bout the long history of
>>my
patria, looking at monuments & buildings. this is in my
>>opinion
sufficient cool & beat,
>>ciao da
>>rinaldo.
>>venice,italy.
>>
>>
>Greg
Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com
>
>
>
>Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun
1997 06:55:45 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: i'm back
rinaldo, all safe and sound
rinaldo
i have just
returned from my first poetry reading. it went well, poets
sitting in a
circle and using poetry for conversation. no order, as in a
good
conversation, one poem leading to another's pome in response.
all poets took
good care of me, i felt as cherished as
i do when i read my
letters and
sonnets from you
happy monday,
rinaldo
love
maries
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: i'm
back rinaldo, all safe and sound
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020904afca936a5c33@[206.25.67.109]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970610134507.006892cc@pop.gpnet.it>
>rinaldo
>i have just
returned from my first poetry reading. it went well, poets
>sitting in a
circle and using poetry for conversation. no order, as in a
>good
conversation, one poem leading to another's pome in response.
>all poets
took good care of me, i felt as
cherished as i do when i read my
>letters and
sonnets from you
>happy monday,
>rinaldo
>love
>maries
>
>
dolce MaRiE,
i greet for
yr
worDs t
hat gimme a
great pleas
ure no dubt
yr reading w
as wonderful
& (h)ar(p)ti
st & every
piece(s) is
in its own p
lace & the p
lanet while
has turned a
nother spinn
ing HolY Spi
rIt
scrivi le tue
poesie, le tue
canzoni, i tuoi
pensieri e il mondo
non fermera' mai piu'
i sogni sognati da svegli
no(w) no(w)
noW!
yr f/ever
Rinaldo
from
venice,italy.
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun
1997 10:17:36 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender:
country@sover.net (Unverified)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: hello my
friend
rinaldo:
it feels like
ages since we have talked. i was so exhausted from the
excitement of my
poetry weekend that i have been napping in bed for days
since returning
home. are you well? i know you are reading the cantos on
the other list,
yes? sadly, i cannot, my memories and my voices in head
make all look
incomprehensible to me. it saddens me, but perhaps it is a
sign that i need
to write more read less. and grow into my tiny poet's
shoes.
keep in touch.
bunches of
flowers
bunches of love
marie
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
hello my friend
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020906afd008d6af29@[206.25.67.111]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970620134003.00c14af0@pop.gpnet.it>
buona domenica
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun
1997 12:01:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender:
country@sover.net (Unverified)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
hello my friend
howdy, my
venetian friend.
happy sunday to
you.
i hope your
solstice was a good one.
love always
mc
marie
Return-Path:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun
1997 16:08:43 -0500 (EST)
From:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Zabriskie Point revised
Rinaldo,
Carlo Marx is code for Allen Ginsberg. Note the description
of horned-rimmed
glasses, etc.. Also, from the context of
his poetry
as related by
Sal, it's clearly "Denver Doldrums," and others.
Moreover, it's
been documented; like in Ann Charter's the portable Jack
Kerouac from
Viking. This is a great way to carry
around selections from
Kerouac
always. Anyhow, the back of the portable
Kerouac lists the
character names
with their real-life identitys.
Hope this helps.
--Jenn Thompson
To:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanxs!
Re: Zabriskie Point revised
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.93.970623160350.5932D-100000@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970623153253.00be5594@pop.gpnet.it>
Jenn Thompson
writes:
>Rinaldo,
>
> Carlo Marx is code for Allen Ginsberg. Note the description
>of
horned-rimmed glasses, etc.. Also, from
the context of his poetry
>as related by
Sal, it's clearly "Denver Doldrums," and others.
>Moreover,
it's been documented; like in Ann Charter's the portable Jack
>Kerouac from
Viking. This is a great way to carry
around selections from
>Kerouac
always. Anyhow, the back of the portable
Kerouac lists the
>character
names with their real-life identitys.
>
>Hope this
helps.
>--Jenn
Thompson
>
>
Jenn,
very useful yr
answer, i have, JK OTR penguin twentieth century
classics,
introduction by Ann Charters, but here no refernce to
the
"nicknames", if ,when u are less busy can me email the cross
list connected
with real people i sall be very happy, the first
time i read OTR
was in 1969, then in 1980, & here in italy there
is very
little 'bout the real story of beat
generation except
of course the
book, but who are the characters in the books are
not described
clear in their own real, life,
thanx again amuch,
yr
Rinaldo.Return-Path: <thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun
1997 16:42:19 -0500 (EST)
From:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanxs! Re: Zabriskie Point revised
Rinaldo:
I'm on at
computer at school, and unfortunately don't have one of
my own. So--I can mail the list tomorrow
afternoon. Just to let
know, however,
the list is fairly incomplete. I've been
adding to
the list from my
reading of Nicosia's Kerouac biography, _Memory Babe_.
By the way, since
you're re-reading OTR, if you haven't already try
reading MB
(mentioned above). My understanding the
events surrounding
Kerouac's initial
concept and writing of OTR has me itching to re-read
it with that
perspective.
Anyhow, look for
the list tomorrow.
"keep on
truckin'"
Jenn Thompson
To:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanxs! Re: Zabriskie Point revised
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.93.970623163626.11509A-100000@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970623232129.0068b548@pop.gpnet.it>
Jenn wrote:
>Rinaldo:
>
>I'm on at
computer at school, and unfortunately don't have one of
>my own. So--I can mail the list tomorrow
afternoon. Just to let
>know,
however, the list is fairly incomplete.
I've been adding to
>the list from
my reading of Nicosia's Kerouac biography, _Memory Babe_.
>
>By the way,
since you're re-reading OTR, if you haven't already try
>reading MB
(mentioned above). My understanding the
events surrounding
>Kerouac's
initial concept and writing of OTR has me itching to re-read
>it with that
perspective.
>
>Anyhow, look
for the list tomorrow.
>
>"keep on
truckin'"
>Jenn Thompson
>
>
Jenn,
thanx again alot,
Nicosia told me that there is no italian
translation
Memory Babe & this is pun regard the situation
'bout "beat
story" here as i mention before,
ciao da Rinaldo.
GRAZIE!!!!To:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: much
thanxs! Re: Kerouac's pseudonyms
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.93.970624111719.28925F-100000@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
References:
jenn,
horray! grazie
tante per the pseudonymsing in OTR,
here italy, is as
usual, & venice, is as usual, i dont'
know a better
place in the world, i must stay here!
but i like alot
am-lit, as a beetnik (sic for m/self),
if u have any
suggestion 'bout crossingreferencing
nicknames in
beatworks (jack kerouac in primis) is welcome,
saluti da
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun
1997 01:15:29 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
Marcel Proust questionnaire (Re: does anyone here speak french?)
Well, you
asked!....
In a message
dated 97-06-24 02:27:07 EDT, you write:
<<
Quel est pour vous le comble de la mise're?
L'amour
[]
Ou' aimeriez-vous vivre?
au Bresil
[]
Votre ide'al de bonheur terrestre?
l'amour
[]
Pour quelles fautes avez-vous le plus
d'indulgence?
les fautes
d'orthographe
[]
Vos he'ros de romans pre'fe'res?
Seymore Glass
dans JD Salinger, a cause de son nom.
Le cafare dans
'La Metamorphose' de Kafka
[]
Votre personnage historique pre'fe're'?
jeanne D'arc
[]
Vos he'roi:nes dans le vie re'elle?
aucune []
Vos he'roi:nes dans la fiction?
[]aucune
Votre peintre favori?
[]Picasso
Votre musicien pre'fe're'?
L'homme vieux et
souriant qui joue son saxophone sur un petit coin tout noir
dans une ruelle a
New Orleans
[]
Votre qualite' pre'fe're'e chez l'homme?
la tendresse
[]
Votre qualite' pre'fe're'e chez la femme?
son mari! []
Votre vertu pre'fe're'e?
aucune
[]
Votre occupation pre'fe're'e?
le vice
[]
Qui auriez-vous aime' e^tre?
la femme de William Burroughs
[]
Le trait principal de votre caracte're?
la
flexibilite...j'adapte facilement a n'importe quel environnement
[]
Ce que vouz appre'ciez le plus chez des amis?
de me laisser
tranquile
[]
Votre principal de'feaut?
timidite
[]
Votre re^ve de bonheur?
d'ecrire quelque
chose ou de peindre un tableau dont je serai completement
heureuse et
satisfaite que ce soit bon.
[]
Quel serait votre plus grand malheur?
que mes parents
ne meurent sans me voir contente.
[]
Ce que vous voudriez e^tre?
compositeur (de
musique)
[]
Le couleur que vous pre'fe'rez?
vert
[]
Le fleur que vous aimez?
Venus fly-trap
[]
L'oiseau que vous pre'fe'rez?
hummingbird
[]
Vos auteurs favoris en prose?
Proust! Sartre,
Celine, Malraux. Herman Hesse,Ralph Ellison. Kathy
Acker.William
Burroughs..vous les connaissez, les autres!
[]
Vos poe'tes pre'fe're's?
Coleridge, Yeats.
Rimbaud...Apollinaire. Mallarme....vous connaissez les
autres.
[]
Vos noms favoris?
Zoe
Chloe
Natacha
Emily
Zach
Ivan
Ryan
[]
Le caracte'res historiques que vous me'prisez
le plus?
Louis XIV []
Le fait militaire que vous admirez le plus?
D-Day, le 6 juin
1944, parce que ca a marque la fin de la guerre mais aussi
c'est mon
anniversaire le 6 juin.
[]
Le don de la nature que vous voudriez avoir?
De longs cheveux
noirs qui descendent jusqu'a ma taille.
[]
Ce que vous de'testez par dessus tout?
quand je fais du
mal sans faire expres a un animal ou un insecte(comme une
coccinelle ou un
papillon, pas comme les mouches ou les moustiques ou les
fourmis)
[]
Comment aimeriez-vous mourir?
d'une overdose de
heroin
[]
E'tat pre'sent de votre esprit?
un peu fatigue,
mais plus ou moins heureuse, merci.
[]
Votre devise?
ecrire tous les
jours jusqu'a ma mort
[]
>>
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Marcel Proust questionnaire
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970625011528_-1797390009@emout11.mail.aol.com>
References:
thanx alot for yr
feedback,
saluti da
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun
1997 23:21:29 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Nero.
Rinaldo. Love your dog poem.
James
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> my black
> spaniel
> Nero,
>
> my dog
> is unplugged
>
> my dog
> goes
> by the vet
>
> my dog
> Nero
> isnt' stupid!
>
> my dog
> watched
> the telly
>
> my dog
> was a pet
> when ceausescu
> was killed
> in xmas day
>
> my dog Nero
> isnt' stupid!
>
> my dog
> now is
> near a bunch
> of trash,
> car plate,
> or in kennel
>
> my dog
> killed
> one hundred
> hens
>
> & when
> the wind
> is blowing
>
> on the right
> i hear his
> unplugged
> soul
>
> ---
> yrs
> Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun
1997 17:03:57 -0500 (EST)
From:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Kerouac.
On Wed, 25 Jun
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> DEAR
friends,
> Lowell
Massachusetts on the tombstone:
> "Ti
Jean - John Kerouac who honored Life - his wife Stella"
>
> ---
> yrs
> Rinaldo.
>
thanks for the
info,
did you visit, or
did you read about it.
i'll make the
journey to his hometown as soon as possible.
peace,
jenn
Return-Path:
<elwellg@voicenet.com>
X-Sender:
elwellg@popmail.voicenet.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jun
1997 22:13:20 -0400
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@voicenet.com>
Subject: Hello
Bouna sera! Come va?
Rinaldo,
where do you live
in Italy? I'll be there in about a week,
and was
wondering where
you live. I'll be in France about a week
before I go to
Italy. Perhaps I'll have time and can drop in.
See ya,
Greg Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com||elwellgr@hotmail.com
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>
--------------------------------------------------------
To: Greg Elwell
<elwellg@voicenet.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Hello
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970630221314.0069f624@popmail.voicenet.com>
References:
Greg,
i l'm living in
venice,italy, not exactly in the ancient part of the
city but i have
the City in front of my own eyes. i'm glad u can make
a like voyage,
lucky man!,
ciao a ancora
tanti cari saluti
dal tuo amico
Rinaldo.
>
>Rinaldo,
>
>where do you
live in Italy? I'll be there in about a
week, and was
>wondering
where you live. I'll be in France about
a week before I go to
>Italy. Perhaps I'll have time and can drop in.
>
>See ya,
>
>
> Greg Elwell
>
elwellg@voicenet.com||elwellgr@hotmail.com
>
<http://www.voicenet.com/~elwellg>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
>To:
<thomjj01@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Kerouac.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.93.970630170245.27417A-100000@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970625192927.0068d494@pop.gpnet.it>
jenn wrote:
>
>
>On Wed, 25
Jun 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> DEAR
friends,
>> Lowell
Massachusetts on the tombstone:
>> "Ti
Jean - John Kerouac who honored Life - his wife Stella"
>>
>> ---
>> yrs
>> Rinaldo.
>>
>thanks for
the info,
>did you
visit, or did you read about it.
>
>i'll make the
journey to his hometown as soon as possible.
>
>peace,
>jenn
>
>
jenn,
i have read in a
book the bit information that influenced
the posted
message above, i suppose it's true fact,
please tell me of
yr voyage in lowell when it doing,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
To:
jgrant@bookzen.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: as well
as i can.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
>X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
>Date: Tue, 1
Jul 1997 20:19:44 -0500
>To: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>From: jo
grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>
>Subject: Re:
No Nazi On The Net was (Re: FW: please read this and vote)
>
dEAR jo,
i have read with
alot of interest yr message, i thanxs u.
i hope that world
shall became a safe place,
cari saluti e
ciao da Rinaldo--- venice,italy.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: brief
letter to a poetess.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901afe04bd151c6@[206.25.67.100]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970702234243.006a3f24@pop.gpnet.it>
cara Marie,
buona
giornata
a
te,
im' a few
embarassed
to write to a
poetess...
saluti fraterni,
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul
1997 07:21:37 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
brief letter to a poetess.
hi rinaldo.
i have been thinking
of you lately.
i love your
poems.
i love your soul.
and your
wonderful sense of humor
and your
vulnerability to the tragic in life
and you.
love
marie
To:
Becca91894@AOL.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
what's going on?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970703045352_1859429385@emout02.mail.aol.com>
References:
hello becca,
if u do a reply automagically the listServ
prompt the address of the sender &
nothing
to all the B-List, anyway u can copy&paste
the address of the
B-List(BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU),
well, now u have two address one for the
sender
& one for the List, & echoing the
message 2times,
this happened to me with some persons in the
B-List
who contemporary sens a message to the List
& one
in cc to my private address,
i hope this match
yr trouble,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul
1997 22:03:18 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Rexroth
Rinaldo,
liked your haiku
even better
you are doing
some nice early SF poetry rennasance reading--Rexroth,
Lamantia, what
else? What Lamantia book was the poem
from you posted a
week of so ago? I missed it somehow. I met Phillip once many
years
ago. Am working on some stuff which may turn into
a book on Phil. L,
Lew Welch, etc.
James
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> "Thou Shalt Not Kill" by Kenneth
Rexroth
>
> You,
> The hyena
with polished face and bow tie,
> In the
office of a billion dollar
> Corporation
devoted to service;
> The vulture
dripping with carrion,
> Carefully
and carelessly robed in imported tweeds,
> Lecturing on
the Age of Abundance;
> The jackal
in the double-breasted gabardine,
> Barking by
remote control,
> In the
United Nations...
> The Superego
in a thousand uniforms,
> You, the
finger man of the behemoth,
> The murderer
of the young men...
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul
1997 01:51:49 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re: pier
paolo pasolini.
have you heard
of/read any Italo Calvino? I love him, esp his short stories.
Not related to
your post, except that he's italian!
ciao,
---maya
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Rexroth
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33BC8416.19E6@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970703222832.006aa4d8@pop.gpnet.it>
JAMES
stauffer@pacbell.net wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>liked your
haiku even better
>
>you are doing
some nice early SF poetry rennasance reading--Rexroth,
>Lamantia,
what else? What Lamantia book was the
poem from you posted a
>week of so
ago? I missed it somehow. I met Phillip
once many years
>ago. Am working on some stuff which may turn into
a book on Phil. L,
>Lew Welch,
etc.
>
>James
>
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> "Thou Shalt Not Kill" by Kenneth
Rexroth
>>
>> You,
>> The
hyena with polished face and bow tie,
>> In the
office of a billion dollar
>>
Corporation devoted to service;
>> The
vulture dripping with carrion,
>>
Carefully and carelessly robed in imported tweeds,
>>
Lecturing on the Age of Abundance;
>> The
jackal in the double-breasted gabardine,
>> Barking
by remote control,
>> In the
United Nations...
>> The
Superego in a thousand uniforms,
>> You, the
finger man of the behemoth,
>> The
murderer of the young men...
>
DEAR James,
first tanx for yr
gentle words,
i was just
thinkn'u 'bout Philip Lamantia.
'cuz my niece
Federica (16 years old)have a vacation in
London from july
6 1997 to 19 july 1997, i have tell
her to buy what
she can 'bout Philip Lamantia's books, but
i havent' the
last information 'bout PL works, Federica
is almost
informed regard beat lit, but if u are so gentle to
(before saturday
afternoon, she leave for London sunday
morning from
Venice airport italian time, just 9 hours in advance
from California)
to tell me a list of PL books titles so
she has a little
bit informed, at the moment Federica dont' know
she in London has
an email address,
get in touch with
me as soon possible,
ciao e cari
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To: Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Italo
Calvino Re: pier paolo pasolini.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970704015148_-727298087@emout02.mail.aol.com>
References:
Marioka7@aol.com
writes:
>have you
heard of/read any Italo Calvino? I love him, esp his short stories.
>Not related
to your post, except that he's italian!
>ciao,
>---maya
>
>
Buon giorno Maya,
thnx for yr
interest in it lit.
sure Italo
Calvino, is a
best seller book
& heres' a zillion of book in bookstores,
whats' are u
interesting?,
i read Calvino
when was a young student, i tell
u, in middle 60s,
then i have lost the path of Calvino's works
i remember a
Calvino's novel "Marcovaldo" & have laugh&laugh&laugh
laugh&laugh&laughlaugh&laugh&laugh...
(but i think was
'cuz i was a kid, anyway my niece Federica, 16yrsOld,
is strong reader
of Italo Calvino, & she is a much much better lit
in english than
his uncle... i even pass yr eventually questions
to her),
if u are reading
actually Calvino tell what book & im' glad to
share with u his
verve. nice?
concerned Pier
Paolo Pasolini is another matter,
& the sense
of his life his cruel & sad, most
contemporary
feelings in him,
ciao e
fraterni saluti
da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul
1997 19:28:42 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Rexroth
Rinaldo,
I really don't
know what is currently available, especially in London.
I understand that
City Lights has a new "collected poems" either just
out or coming
out. I will check next week when I get
in touch. Just
have your niece
ask for any Lamantia title. I don't
think there are
very many Phillip
Lamantia's. I'll try to make up a
bibliography and
get it to you but
I wouldn't have it by Saturday--working everyday
presently. Very unbeet. Be glad to give any e-mail help I could to
your niece in
London, and I'll see what City Lights has and you could
have them ship to
you direct to Venezia.
James
Our 4th of July
today for the American Revolution
Bastille Day
coming up for the French.
What
Revolutionary celebration for the Italians?
>
> DEAR James,
> first tanx
for yr gentle words,
>
> i was just
thinkn'u 'bout Philip Lamantia.
>
> 'cuz my
niece Federica (16 years old)have a vacation in
> London from
july 6 1997 to 19 july 1997, i have tell
> her to buy
what she can 'bout Philip Lamantia's books, but
> i havent'
the last information 'bout PL works, Federica
> is almost
informed regard beat lit, but if u are so gentle to
> (before
saturday afternoon, she leave for London sunday
> morning from
Venice airport italian time, just 9 hours in advance
> from
California) to tell me a list of PL books titles so
> she has a
little bit informed, at the moment Federica dont' know
> she in
London has an email address,
>
> get in touch
with me as soon possible,
> ciao e cari
saluti,
>
> Rinaldo.
>
>
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: helo
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33BDB159.55A9@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970703222832.006aa4d8@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19970704125831.00685ab8@pop.gpnet.it>
buon giorno
James,
thanx alot for yr
help, i will tell you when my niece
is in London,
(she say me she is plainning to come in
U.S.A. when she
turn 18 next year), what books she found,
i greet with like
the opportunity of have books from
SF City Lights
bookstore,
as for
revolutionary celebrations italians are sparing,
no celebration, i
think 'cuz the italians are anarchist
for themself
every day, perhaps not always a good point...
ciao e saluti
da
Rinaldo.
stauffer@pacbell.net
wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>I really
don't know what is currently available, especially in London.
>I understand
that City Lights has a new "collected poems" either just
>out or coming
out. I will check next week when I get
in touch. Just
>have your
niece ask for any Lamantia title. I
don't think there are
>very many
Phillip Lamantia's. I'll try to make up
a bibliography and
>get it to you
but I wouldn't have it by Saturday--working everyday
>presently. Very unbeet. Be glad to give any e-mail help I could to
>your niece in
London, and I'll see what City Lights has and you could
>have them
ship to you direct to Venezia.
>
>James
>
>Our 4th of
July today for the American Revolution
>Bastille Day
coming up for the French.
>What
Revolutionary celebration for the Italians?
>
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul
97 15:42:12 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
Friday (afternoon, summer)
Rinaldo, please
tell me if I translate this correctly:
I am the force of
Death.
Alone in the
tradition is my Love. ~Pasolini
Thanks,
Sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 1997 4:06 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Friday (afternoon, summer)
Friday afternoon summer
blue collars
clean out punching papers
bank closed
calm
calm
hasty employees swarm like ants
calm
calm
money has stopped working (except credit card)
&
pensioners have lost the cork of the bottle
&
cats
&
cats are dozing on the patio
&
cats wont' eat the poor birdies fallen
from the nest
&
clouds
clouds?
& the clouds turned pink from the
brush of canaletto
calm
calm calm
until
MONDAY
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*
"Io sono una
forza del Passato.
Solo nella
tradizione e' il mio amore."
Pier Paolo Pasolini
*
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul
1997 15:36:35 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re: be
at #2 haiku
In a message
dated 97-07-04 13:20:32 EDT, you write:
<<
blurred flies
in his eyes
poor man
incognito like a
multimillionaire
---
yrs
Rinaldo. >>
Hey rinaldo. I enjoyed this very much!!! Will you let me
print it in my
"zine"
i'm making? Please?
----maya
Return-Path:
<chizam@trace.ie.wisc.edu>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul
1997 21:38:41 -0500
From:
chizam@trace.ie.wisc.edu
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: Re: self
proclaimed poet
X-Sun-Charset:
US-ASCII
so you like my
poetry
do you write or
just read?
Zach
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Pasolini
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707051547310804@msn.com>
References:
At 15.42 05/07/97
UT, Sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
please tell me if I translate this correctly:
>
>I am the
force of Death.
>Alone in the
tradition is my Love. ~Pasolini
>
>Thanks,
>Sherri
>
>*
>"Io sono
una forza del Passato.
>Solo nella
tradizione e' il mio amore."
>Pier Paolo Pasolini
>*
Sherri,
i suggest:
"
I am a force of Past.
Only in the tradition is my love.
"
yr translation is
enough good except
"Passato"=Past
& "Solo"=Only,
of course theres'
an axplanation in this "errors"
-
"Passato" also u can say 'bout thing/person dead
but in this case
Passato=opposite of Future,
-
"Solo" u can say really 'bout a person who is alone
but in this case
is synonym of "Solamente".
Pasolini in this
fragment from the poem "Poetry as rose"(1961)
tell us that he refused
to match with contemporary feeling
& he looks at
the past (his infancy in Casarsa, in Venetian
north-east,
opposite of his life in Rome where he was
disliking
"Dolce Vita" et cetera...)
[have a reference
for yr translation
in a title of a
book by Thomas Wolfe (sp?) "Angel..."
in italian
translated as "Angelo guarda il Passato",
i dont' remember
exactly the title (sorry) but certainly u
can track it,
[Thomas Wolfe affected Jack Kerouac early
writings (if my
memory not fades...)]
i hope this help,
i did the possible, & im' glad to help u
further in yr
italian translation,
ciao, fraterni
saluti da
Rinaldo. * the
beet *
To:
chizam@trace.ie.wisc.edu
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: self
proclaimed poet
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199707060238.VAA15756@trace.ie.wisc.edu>
References:
dear,
just i read
poetry, my statement was only a tribute
'bout yr courage
to self proclame a poet, if ive'
wrong in
somthing, i apologie,
ciao,
Rinaldo
-------
>so you like
my poetry
>do you write
or just read?
>Zach
>
>To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: be
at #2 haiku
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970705153634_1446147703@emout06.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 15.36 05/07/97
-0400, Maya wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-07-04 13:20:32 EDT, you write:
>
><<
> blurred flies
> in his eyes
>
> poor man
>
> incognito like a
> multimillionaire
>
>
> ---
> yrs
> Rinaldo.
>>
>
>Hey
rinaldo. I enjoyed this very much!!!
Will you let me print it in my
>"zine"
i'm making? Please?
>----maya
>
Buona domenica
Maya,
of course u can
print my "be at #2 haiku", thnx alot.
i must tell u
additionally a few words as of preface:
1th
the following
lines of yr poem "bad dream" alias "lies and betrayals"
impressed myself
& suggested myself the first 2 line of the haiku
...
You don't see us
You don't see us
You don't see us
We strike in the
dark.
In the dark well
of my room, she knows i'm vulnerable,
and she pins me
down.
In an inch of
dirty water, my face pressed to the cold stone ground,
I drown, still
kicking.
We are prisoners
of our own thoughts,
We are prisoners
of our selves.
...
2th
im' a bit
obsessed by the word "blur", enchanted!,
& soundtrack
of the haiku perhaps the song#2 by blur (band & CD
in the music
billboard)
3th
the last 2 lines
of the haiku, evoke last thursday morning
in a venetian
calle where i saw a man happy for have won a
a prize in the
lottery (or did he hoped?)
4th
in a certain
sense the haiku is the hapiness of a blur
shot in the dark
(see as a pun 1th)
5th
poetry as action
writing (like Jackson Pollok action painting)
ciao da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
97 15:59:49 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE:
Pasolini
ah si... grazie, mi amico....
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 1997 3:57 AM
To: Sherri
Subject: Pasolini
At 15.42 05/07/97
UT, Sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
please tell me if I translate this correctly:
>
>I am the
force of Death.
>Alone in the
tradition is my Love. ~Pasolini
>
>Thanks,
>Sherri
>
>*
>"Io sono
una forza del Passato.
>Solo nella
tradizione e' il mio amore."
>Pier Paolo
Pasolini
>*
Sherri,
i suggest:
"
I am a force of Past.
Only in the tradition is my love.
"
yr translation is
enough good except
"Passato"=Past
& "Solo"=Only,
of course theres'
an axplanation in this "errors"
-
"Passato" also u can say 'bout thing/person dead
but in this case
Passato=opposite of Future,
-
"Solo" u can say really 'bout a person who is alone
but in this case
is synonym of "Solamente".
Pasolini in this
fragment from the poem "Poetry as rose"(1961)
tell us that he
refused to match with contemporary feeling
& he looks at
the past (his infancy in Casarsa, in Venetian
north-east,
opposite of his life in Rome where he was
disliking
"Dolce Vita" et cetera...)
[have a reference
for yr translation
in a title of a
book by Thomas Wolfe (sp?) "Angel..."
in italian
translated as "Angelo guarda il Passato",
i dont' remember
exactly the title (sorry) but certainly u
can track it,
[Thomas Wolfe affected Jack Kerouac early
writings (if my
memory not fades...)]
i hope this help,
i did the possible, & im' glad to help u
further in yr
italian translation,
ciao, fraterni
saluti da
Rinaldo. * the
beet *
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
97 22:45:57 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
proletariat #3
whoa!!! what an amazing way send up the materialism
of this world! 3 cheers
Rinaldo... that's
like a little haiku gem.
ciao,
sherri
Return-Path:
<ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
1997 18:48:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> shopping
> bags
> come
> back
> home
> killing
> me!
> ---
> yrs
> Rinaldo.
>
Nina hands you
scissors to take your revenge
To: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970706184756.3077A-100000@clark.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970707003756.006baa8c@pop.gpnet.it>
At 18.48 06/07/97
-0400, Nina wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> shopping
>> bags
>> come
>> back
>> home
>> killing
>> me!
>> ---
>> yrs
>> Rinaldo.
>>
>Nina hands
you scissors to take your revenge
>
>
metallic flying scissors
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707062251180414@msn.com>
References:
Sherri wrote:
>whoa!!! what an amazing way send up the materialism
of this world! 3 cheers
>Rinaldo...
that's like a little haiku gem.
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
can
metallic flying scissors
save
MySelf? Return-Path: <ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
1997 19:01:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> At 18.48
06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
> >On Mon,
7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >
>
>> shopping
>
>> bags
>
>> come
>
>> back
>
>> home
>
>> killing
>
>> me!
> >> ---
> >> yrs
> >>
Rinaldo.
> >>
> >Nina
hands you scissors to take your revenge
> >
> >
> metallic flying scissors
>
metallic flying
scissors that speak
To: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970706190108.6135A-100000@clark.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970707004902.0068e628@pop.gpnet.it>
At 19.01 06/07/97
-0400, Nina wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> At 18.48
06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
>> >On
Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>> >
>>
>> shopping
>>
>> bags
>>
>> come
>>
>> back
>>
>> home
>> >> killing
>>
>> me!
>> >>
---
>> >>
yrs
>> >>
Rinaldo.
>> >>
>> >Nina
hands you scissors to take your revenge
>> >
>> >
>> metallic flying scissors
>>
>
>
>metallic
flying scissors that speak
>
>
like a Jackson Pollock painting
as trails in tHe sKyTo: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970706190900.6135B-100000@clark.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970707010223.0068d238@pop.gpnet.it>
At 19.09 06/07/97
-0400, Nina wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> At 19.01
06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
>> >On
Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>> >
>> >>
At 18.48 06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
>> >>
>On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>> >>
>
>> >>
>> shopping
>> >>
>> bags
>> >>
>> come
>> >>
>> back
>> >>
>> home
>> >>
>> killing
>> >>
>> me!
>> >>
>> ---
>> >>
>> yrs
>> >>
>> Rinaldo.
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>Nina hands you scissors to take your revenge
>> >>
>
>> >>
>
>> >>
metallic flying scissors
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>metallic flying scissors that speak
>> >
>> >
>> like a Jackson Pollock painting
>> as trails in tHe sKy
>>
>spitting red
>
>
aNd bLURRED
images...
Return-Path:
<ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
1997 19:09:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> At 19.01
06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
> >On Mon,
7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >
> >> At
18.48 06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
> >>
>On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >>
>
> >>
>> shopping
> >>
>> bags
> >>
>> come
> >>
>> back
> >>
>> home
> >>
>> killing
> >>
>> me!
> >>
>> ---
> >>
>> yrs
> >>
>> Rinaldo.
> >>
>>
> >>
>Nina hands you scissors to take your revenge
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> metallic flying scissors
> >>
> >
> >
> >metallic
flying scissors that speak
> >
> >
> like a Jackson Pollock painting
> as trails in tHe sKy
>
spitting red
Return-Path:
<ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
1997 19:20:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> At 19.09
06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
> >On Mon,
7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >
> >> At
19.01 06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
> >>
>On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >>
>
> >>
>> At 18.48 06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
> >>
>> >On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >>
>> >
> >>
>> >> shopping
> >>
>> >> bags
> >>
>> >> come
> >>
>> >> back
> >>
>> >> home
> >>
>> >> killing
> >>
>> >> me!
> >>
>> >> ---
> >>
>> >> yrs
> >>
>> >> Rinaldo.
> >>
>> >>
> >>
>> >Nina hands you scissors to take your revenge
> >>
>> >
> >>
>> >
> >>
>> metallic flying scissors
> >>
>>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>metallic flying scissors that speak
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> like a Jackson Pollock painting
> >> as trails in tHe sKy
> >>
> >spitting
red
> >
> >
> aNd bLURRED
images...
>
we RuB our eyes
To: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970706191909.6135C-100000@clark.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970707010711.006baf6c@pop.gpnet.it>
At 19.20 06/07/97
-0400, Nina wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> At 19.09
06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
>> >On
Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>> >
>> >>
At 19.01 06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
>> >>
>On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>> >>
>
>> >>
>> At 18.48 06/07/97 -0400, Nina wrote:
>> >>
>> >On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> shopping
>> >>
>> >> bags
>> >>
>> >> come
>> >>
>> >> back
>> >>
>> >> home
>> >>
>> >> killing
>> >>
>> >> me!
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >>
>> >> yrs
>> >>
>> >> Rinaldo.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Nina hands you scissors to take your revenge
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> metallic flying scissors
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>metallic flying scissors that speak
>> >>
>
>> >>
>
>> >>
like a Jackson Pollock painting
>> >>
as trails in tHe sKy
>> >>
>>
>spitting red
>> >
>> >
>> aNd bLURRED
images...
>>
>we RuB our
eyes
>
>
...
thnx alot for yr
verve, Nina, but now i must go
to sleep... im' a
bit tired, again thanx, ciao
da Rinaldo * the beetle *
To: ncary@clark.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: btw
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
nina, in italy
(venice), here its' 1:30 am,
ciao again,
rinaldo.To:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: btw RE:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707062251180414@msn.com>
References:
sherri
thnx for yr
gentle words,
ciao da
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
97 23:23:49 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE:
proletariat #3
hhhmmmm....
conjures the image of someone who feels like a puppet for the
government or
society, and prays for scissors to fly by and cut the strings...
do i have this
right?
ciao,
sherri
Return-Path:
<ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 6 Jul
1997 19:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: btw
Yes, i know. I am
sorry ....well not sorry it is 1:30 am. but for keeping
you up
On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> nina, in
italy (venice), here its' 1:30 am,
>
> ciao again,
> rinaldo.
>
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul
1997 01:04:29 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
Italo Calvino Re: pier paolo pasolini.
In a message
dated 97-07-04 12:19:18 EDT, you write:
<<
if u are reading actually Calvino tell what
book & im' glad to
share with u his verve. nice?
concerned Pier Paolo Pasolini is another
matter,
& the sense of his life his cruel &
sad, most
contemporary feelings in him,
>>
i read a book of
shortstories by Italo Calvino that i particularly
liked...especially
1 story called "The Flash" which is about 1 page long.
But brilliant.
Check it out if you are ever browsing in a bookstore.
-----------------maya
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul
1997 01:09:05 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
Denise Levertov.
that a was a
beautiful beautiful poem!
who is denise
levertov?
-----maya(just
curious)
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: BTWs
Denise Levertov & Italo Calvino.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970707010902_2057360513@emout12.mail.aol.com>
References:
Maya,
Denise Levertov
[Ilford (Essex, England), 24 oct 1923 - ] is a american
poetess of
britain origin & she is a militant in Peace Movement, last
works
"Candles in Babylon" (1982), i found the poem "PEOPLE AT
NIGHT"
searching in the
internet,
as for Italo
Calvino, "The Flash" is the title or a translation (?),
im' sure to
recognize such shortstory,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
Maya writes:
>that a was a
beautiful beautiful poem!
>who is denise
levertov?
>-----maya(just
curious)
>
>To: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: btw
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970706193618.20502A-100000@clark.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970707012232.006b6628@pop.gpnet.it>
nina wrote:
>Yes, i know.
I am sorry ....well not sorry it is 1:30 am. but for keeping
>you up
>
>
>On Mon, 7 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> nina, in
italy (venice), here its' 1:30 am,
>>
>> ciao
again,
>> rinaldo.
>>
>
>
nina,
dont' care dont' care dont'
care
ciao,
rinaldo.
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707062329090164@msn.com>
References:
At 23.23 06/07/97
UT, sherri wrote:
>hhhmmmm....
conjures the image of someone who feels like a puppet for the
>government or
society, and prays for scissors to fly by and cut the strings...
>do i have
this right?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
sherri, sono
d'accordo con te,
flying scissors
keep in mind but i cut from the kaiku,
(have i do the
right choice?), i propose u the "scissors" verse as a
test(in
unconscious way),
cari saluti e
buon lunedi',
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul
97 14:04:38 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE: proletariat
#3
Rinaldo,
grazie mi amico,
buon lunedi a te, anche.
unfortunately,
i'm not sure i understand what you mean, "a little test". Can
you explain
further?
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Monday, July 07, 1997 5:20 AM
To: Sherri
Subject: RE: proletariat #3
At 23.23 06/07/97
UT, sherri wrote:
>hhhmmmm....
conjures the image of someone who feels like a puppet for the
>government or
society, and prays for scissors to fly by and cut the
strings...
>do i have
this right?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
sherri, sono
d'accordo con te,
flying scissors
keep in mind but i cut from the kaiku,
(have i do the
right choice?), i propose u the "scissors" verse as a
test(in
unconscious way),
cari saluti e
buon lunedi',
Rinaldo.
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: little
test (mistyped)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707071410010472@msn.com>
References:
At 14.04 07/07/97
UT, sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>grazie mi
amico, buon lunedi a te, anche.
>
>unfortunately,
i'm not sure i understand what you mean, "a little test". Can
>you explain
further?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
sherri,
dont' care
dont' care
no test no test
no test no test
only i tried to
continue a haiku
made with two
hands... u&me... ciao
dont' care dont'
care
il tuo caro
amico,
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
To: 'Rinaldo
Rasa' <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
Friday (afternoon, summer)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul
1997 09:52:02 -0700
<<monday
morning, coffee, summer>>
Rinaldo writ:
>> &
>> pensioners have lost the cork of the bottle
I like this
line. nice.
>> yrs
>> Rinaldo.
Don't know what
these lines mean:
>*
>"Io sono
una forza del Passato.
>Solo nella
tradizione e' il mio amore."
>Pier Paolo
Pasolini
>*
still quiet and
centered and somewhat happy, Douglas
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul
97 17:07:25 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE:
little test (mistyped)
Rinaldo,
(smiling)
do you still live
in italy? and what is your life
like? hope i'm not being
too personal, i
just like what i've seen of your personality and mind and
would like to
know more about you. ignore this if you
like, don't want to
pry...
ciao,
sherri
Return-Path:
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
To: 'Rinaldo
Rasa' <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
Denise Levertov.
Date: Mon, 7 Jul
1997 10:54:19 -0700
<<nice>>
"the map is
not the territory" babu@electriciti.com
(Alfred Korzybski) www.electriciti.com/babu/
>----------
>From: Rinaldo Rasa[SMTP:rinaldo@GPNET.IT]
>Sent: Sunday, July 06, 1997 2:11 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Denise Levertov.
>
>PEOPLE AT
NIGHT by Denise LEVERTOV
>
>
>A night that
cuts between you and you
>and you and you
and you
>and me : jostles
us apart, a man elbowing
>through a
crowd. We won't
> look for each other, either-
>wander off,
each alone, not looking
>in the slow
crowd. Among sideshows
> under movie signs,
> pictures made of a million
lights,
> giants that move and again move
> again, above a cloud of thick
smells,
> franks, roasted nutmeats-
>
>Or going up
to some apartment, yours
> or yours, finding
>someone
sitting in the dark:
>who is it
really? So you switch the
>light on to
see: you know the name but
>who is it ?
> But you won't see.
>
>The
fluorescent light flickers sullenly, a
>pause. But
you command. It grabs
>each face and
holds it up
>by the hair
for you, mask after mask.
> You and
you and I repeat
> gestures that make do when
speech
> has failed and talk
> and talk, laughing, saying
> 'I', and 'I',
>meaning
'Anybody'.
> No one.
>
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: My
Generation (was RE: little test (mistyped))
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707071705370206@msn.com>
References:
Sherri,
my parents came
from the alpine mountains, toward the
venetian lowland.
as soon as after the II WorldWar.
i was born in the
1950. 26 february. it was sunday. warm day,
ranunculus in the
meadows.
my mother chose
my name, she had heard it on the radio.
there was the
Paradiso Terrestre, everyone loved the baby,
& i have been
happy & never more i will be it, as...
spero di aver
esaudito almeno
in parte il tuo
desiderio,
credo che, in
ultimo, questo
periodo sia la
nostra vera vita,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
At 17.07 07/07/97
UT, Sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>(smiling)
>
>do you still
live in italy? and what is your life
like? hope i'm not being
>too personal,
i just like what i've seen of your personality and mind and
>would like to
know more about you. ignore this if you
like, don't want to
>pry...
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>
To: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: monday
evening was RE: Friday (afternoon, summer)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970707165202Z-88@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>
References:
At 09.52 07/07/97
-0700, "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com> wrote:
><<monday
morning, coffee, summer>>
>
>Rinaldo writ:
>
>>> &
>>> pensioners have lost the cork of the bottle
>
>I like this
line. nice.
>
>>> yrs
>>>
Rinaldo.
>
>Don't know
what these lines mean:
>
>>*
>>"Io
sono una forza del Passato.
>>Solo nella
tradizione e' il mio amore."
>>Pier
Paolo Pasolini
>>*
>
>still quiet
and centered and somewhat happy, Douglas
>
>
dear Douglas
i suggest this translation:
"
I am a force of the Past.
Only in the tradition is my love.
"
fragment from "Poesia in forma di
rosa" (1961)
by Pier Paolo Pasolini
btw #1:
Pasolini in this
segment from the poem "Poetry as rose"(1961)
tell us that he
refused to match with contemporary feeling
& he looks at
the past (his infancy in Casarsa, in Venetian
north-east,
opposite of his life in Rome where he was
disliking
"Dolce Vita" et cetera...)
btw#2 (as beat
pun):
[have a reference
for yr translation
in a title of a
book by Thomas Wolfe (sp?) "Angel..."
in italian
translated as "Angelo guarda il Passato",
i dont' remember
exactly the title (sorry) but certainly u
can track it,
[Thomas Wolfe affected Jack Kerouac early
writings (if my
memory not fades...)]
ciao &
thnx alot for yr
gentle words i enjoy yr friendship,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul
97 22:06:20 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE: My
Generation (was RE: little test (mistyped))
Rinaldo,
please forgive my
not responding until this evening... i need my Italian
dictionary to
translate properly...
ciao, caro amico,
sherri
----------
From: Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Monday, July 07, 1997 2:06 PM
To: Sherri
Subject: My Generation (was RE: little test
(mistyped))
Sherri,
my parents came
from the alpine mountains, toward the
venetian lowland.
as soon as after the II WorldWar.
i was born in the
1950. 26 february. it was sunday. warm day,
ranunculus in the
meadows.
my mother chose
my name, she had heard it on the radio.
there was the
Paradiso Terrestre, everyone loved the baby,
& i have been
happy & never more i will be it, as...
spero di aver
esaudito almeno
in parte il tuo
desiderio,
credo che, in
ultimo, questo
periodo sia la
nostra vera vita,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
At 17.07 07/07/97
UT, Sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>(smiling)
>
>do you still
live in italy? and what is your life
like? hope i'm not being
>too personal,
i just like what i've seen of your personality and mind and
>would like to
know more about you. ignore this if you
like, don't want to
>pry...
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: mad
magazine sketch (recalled circa 20yrs ago).
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l0302090eafe1033f6a9b@[206.25.67.104]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970703125404.00687cb4@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901afe04bd151c6@[206.25.67.100]>
<3.0.1.32.19970702234243.006a3f24@pop.gpnet.it>
Marie, good
morn',
today i have read
the word Oklahoma &
it has come me in
mind MAD magazine and then marie...
there it was a
photo with soldiers moving into attack
in the Second
World War... landing force on sandy land...
a soldier turns
around embarassed toward one other &
he tells:
"This is not
OKINAWA!... This is OKLAHOMA!",
this gag has
caused laughter me alot, (dont' ask me why),
boh! im' also mad
to tell u such a thought,
yr
Rinaldo.
BTW#1 yr
CD/lyrics/poems has been masterized?
BTW#2 can email
me a *.WAV file of yr poems?
again, ciao!
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul
1997 10:27:26 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: mad
magazine sketch (recalled circa 20yrs ago).
good morn,
rinaldo. yes i have finally made my own tape of a lot of my
work. send me
your address and i would most happily mail you a copy. i was
going to ask you
for your earthmail address and surprise you. so,
SURPRIZE!!!! (i loved the joke and especially since it made
you think of
me.
marie
>Marie, good
morn',
>today i have
read the word Oklahoma &
>it has come
me in mind MAD magazine and then marie...
there it was a
photo with soldiers moving into attack
>in the Second
World War... landing force on sandy land...
>a soldier
turns around embarassed toward one other &
>he tells:
>"This is
not OKINAWA!... This is OKLAHOMA!",
>this gag has
caused laughter me alot, (dont' ask me why),
>boh! im' also
mad to tell u such a thought,
>yr
>Rinaldo.
>BTW#1 yr
CD/lyrics/poems has been masterized?
>BTW#2 can
email me a *.WAV file of yr poems?
>again, ciao!
>
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
SURPRIZE!!!!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020905afe8f97e6071@[206.25.67.122]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970709131746.006933bc@pop.gpnet.it>
<l0302090eafe1033f6a9b@[206.25.67.104]>
<3.0.1.32.19970703125404.00687cb4@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901afe04bd151c6@[206.25.67.100]>
<3.0.1.32.19970702234243.006a3f24@pop.gpnet.it>
Rinaldo Rasa
via Morlaiter 2
30173 VENEZIA-Mestre
I T A L I A
-----------
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul
1997 16:27:22 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
SURPRIZE!!!!
thank you
rinaldo!
i will send you
two sided tape of two different readings.
one with lots of
my inside voices speaking the lines they wrote
and one that
hopefully sounds a little less cracked.
especially half
way through i gather some rhythm.
it's hard to do,
but how else to learn other than do?
love,
marie
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
SURPRIZE!!!!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020907afe96b2714ba@[206.25.67.124]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970709185120.006ba678@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020905afe8f97e6071@[206.25.67.122]>
<3.0.1.32.19970709131746.006933bc@pop.gpnet.it>
<l0302090eafe1033f6a9b@[206.25.67.104]> <3.0.1.32.19970703125404.00687cb4@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901afe04bd151c6@[206.25.67.100]>
<3.0.1.32.19970702234243.006a3f24@pop.gpnet.it>
marie, im'
waiting for the postman..., ciao e grazie, rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul
1997 19:02:40 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: Wed
blues.
> priest
> confessor
>
> u get
> married
> my confessor
>
> an angel
> has pissed
> on my head
>
> my imaginary
> friend
>
>
>---
>yrs
>Rinaldo.
_________________
you remind me of
charlie chaplin, sometimes, rinaldo, the intelligence
peeking out of
the joke, all gentle reminders that we are all mortal
children
mc
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul
97 14:25:35 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE: Life
after the ***th.
Rinaldo, mio caro
I really like
this.... made me smile
how are you, by
the way?
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 1:44 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Life after the ***th.
ahem
ahem
i
aint' ready
Father
my dad's car
is
better
than
yr Dad's car
i take note that
howl by allen ginsberg is a bloody
poem
when i read times ago
i havent' the same eyes
i
have now,
right! but now just when i read howl&kaddish
i see cutted
heads & blood everywhere
5.30 a.m. thu
i aint'
ready i aint' ready
i have a vision i
see i aint ready
6:00 a.m. thu
i sing in my mind
a nursery rhyme
i aint' readY!
6:00 a.m. thu
6:00 a.m. thu
6:00 am thu
6:00 am thu
---
yrs
Rinaldo. *
ciao *
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: I really
like this....
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707101431030511@msn.com>
References:
sherri, u are
gentle, tu sei molto gentile,
when i write (quando scrivo qualcosa)
i hope (spero)
that people have
a little smile (che la gente abbia un piccolo sorriso)
isnt' this a
little poem? (non e' questo una piccola poesia?)
i have put on
side the translation in italian language
'cuz i noticed u
are an italianophile (there such a word in
america ?)
quando vuoi (when
u like) scrivimi pure (write me),
ciao da
Rinaldo.
At 14.25 10/07/97
UT, sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo, mio
caro
>
>I really like
this.... made me smile
>
>how are you,
by the way?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>
>
Return-Path:
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jul
1997 11:04:19 -0500
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: jo grant
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
Subject: Re: who
is MemBabe?
>i wrote:
>help
>MemBabe@aol.com
wrote:
>>que pasa?
>>
Membabe@aol.com
is Diane De Rooy. She lives in Seattle. Has been working on
an article about
JK.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul
97 16:53:51 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE: I
really like this....
Rinaldo,
mille
grazie. i love the lovely little poem,
especially in Italiano.
please tell me
where in Italia you live and more about yourself... you seem
to have such a
dolce spirito (is that the right way to say this?)
ciao, mio caro,
sherri
To: jo grant
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: who
is MemBabe?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03007802afec09c22989@[156.46.45.88]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970711155410.00688d44@pop.gpnet.it>
At 11.04 11/07/97
-0500, jo wrote:
>>i wrote:
>>help
>>MemBabe@aol.com
wrote:
>>>que
pasa?
>>>
>
>
>Membabe@aol.com
is Diane De Rooy. She lives in Seattle. Has been working on
>an article
about JK.
>
>j grant
>
> BE ON THE WATCH
>for items
stolen from the Keroauc Collection
> O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
>http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
>
>Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
> display books free at
> <http://www.bookzen.com>
> 375,913 visitors from 07-96 to 07-97
>
>
>
>
>
>
jo, many thanks,
i thinked MemBabe was a mailing list
'bout jack
kerouac archive, now im' clarified, grazie again,
rinaldo.To:
"Sherri " <love_singing@msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: please
tell me...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707111704400975@msn.com>
References:
sherri,
im' living in
Venice (not Rialto or San Marco Square)
but with the old
city in front of me,
grazie a te
(thanks) you appreciate the words
im' posting,
i love to write
in english, like i think
you like to write
italiano (isnt' true= non e' vero?),
"dolce
spirito" is an enormous compliment,
and very poetic (e molto poetico)
like Dante's way (alla maniera di Dante)
do u rembeber (ricordi)
dolce stil novo?
where are u
living atthe moment?
ciao da
Rinaldo.
At 16.53 11/07/97
UT, sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>mille
grazie. i love the lovely little poem,
especially in Italiano.
>
>please tell
me where in Italia you live and more about yourself... you seem
>to have such
a dolce spirito (is that the right way to say this?)
>
>ciao, mio
caro,
>sherri
>
>To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: helo
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970707010902_2057360513@emout12.mail.aol.com>
References:
maya, if you
like, as you write in beat-l u can
put my email
address in yr bookmaker, ciao, Rinaldo.Return-Path: <Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul
1997 20:34:54 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re: helo
In a message
dated 97-07-11 19:18:11 EDT, you write:
<<
maya, if you like, as you write in beat-l u
can
put my email address in yr bookmaker, ciao,
Rinaldo.
>>
you mean i can
put your email address with your poem in my magazine? Is that
what you mean?
-----maya(not
sure i understand)
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: helo
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970711203453_-491467341@emout05.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 20.34 11/07/97
-0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-07-11 19:18:11 EDT, you write:
>
><<
> maya, if you
like, as you write in beat-l u can
> put my email
address in yr bookmaker, ciao, Rinaldo.
>
> >>
>you mean i
can put your email address with your poem in my magazine? Is that
>what you
mean?
>-----maya(not
sure i understand)
>
>
maya, i say that
i like u can get i touch with me,
when u like,
ciao, rinaldo. Return-Path: <Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul
1997 07:33:10 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re: helo
In a message
dated 97-07-12 07:25:44 EDT, you write:
<<
maya, i say that i like u can get i touch with
me,
when u like, ciao, rinaldo. >>
OOHH, ok. thanks!
I will!
have a splendid
day,
ciao,
maya
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: OOHH,
ok.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970712073309_783937713@emout13.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 07.33 12/07/97
-0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-07-12 07:25:44 EDT, you write:
>
><<
> maya, i say
that i like u can get i touch with me,
> when u like,
ciao, rinaldo. >>
>
>OOHH, ok.
thanks! I will!
>have a
splendid day,
>ciao,
>maya
>
>
maya, take me
info 'bout yr mayaZINE, when thing go on.
ciao, ciao da
Rinaldo. (thnx again, send me yr poems
if u want). To:
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
small pome
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l0302090cafee3feaa8d2@[206.25.67.112]>
References:
marie,
2 day ago
i saw
a
white
butterfly
flying in the
rain
marie wrote:
>INTOXICATION
>
>(for michael
and craig)
>
>clouds burst
>and rain down
>on poets
>wandering in
street
>searching for
poetical drink.
>
>suddenly
drenched!
>clouds burst!
>we laugh and
turn faces up,
>mouths open
>to drink in
the sky--
>
>leap-frogging
puddles,
>laughing
> tumbling
> shouting
> splashing!
>
>until, many
blocks later
> we pour ourselves into the car,
>ending
> the best
> poetical
> drunk
> by far.
>
>To:
dumo13@EROLS.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Miget Auto Races
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33CA8584.2636@erols.com>
References:
Chris,
thanks a lot for
yr information, im' always trouble by little
particulras in
OTR, the midget car is one, in other words,
"microvettura"
= go-cart & in 1959 (date of it translation) this
races not in
italy, i believed that midget car was something
like formula 3 (a
bit low for the FORMULA 1, racing by Ferrari),
now things are
much cleared,
again grazie,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
At 13.01 14/07/97
-0700, Chris wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>Miget cars
are much like Go-Carts. They are
slightly larger and have
>sturdy
steel-tube frame and a fiberglass body.
The engines are somewhat
>powerfull for
these little cars (I'd the cars are about the size of a
>twin
bed?). They are raced on fairly small,
circular dirt tracks. They
>are still
raced today. I'll try to find a bit more
information on the
>American
NASCAR site for you if you'd like.
>
>Chris
>
>Return-Path:
<dumo13@erols.com>
From:
dumo13@erols.com
Date: Mon, 14 Jul
1997 23:22:02 -0700
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Miget Auto Races
Rinaldo,
Much like
go-carts on steroids. Whereas a go-cart has no body, the miget
cars look literally
like racecars for midgets. I'd be glad
to help you
with anything
else.
Chris
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> Chris,
> thanks a lot
for yr information, im' always trouble by little
> particulras
in OTR, the midget car is one, in other words,
> "microvettura"
= go-cart & in 1959 (date of it translation) this
> races not in
italy, i believed that midget car was something
> like formula
3 (a bit low for the FORMULA 1, racing by Ferrari),
> now things
are much cleared,
> again
grazie,
> ciao da
> Rinaldo.
>
> At 13.01
14/07/97 -0700, Chris wrote:
> >Rinaldo,
> >
> >Miget
cars are much like Go-Carts. They are
slightly larger and have
> >sturdy
steel-tube frame and a fiberglass body.
The engines are somewhat
>
>powerfull for these little cars (I'd the cars are about the size of a
> >twin
bed?). They are raced on fairly small,
circular dirt tracks. They
> >are
still raced today. I'll try to find a
bit more information on the
> >American
NASCAR site for you if you'd like.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
To:
dumo13@erols.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Miget Auto Races
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33CB170A.48A8@erols.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970714235252.0068bad4@pop.gpnet.it>
Chris,
the translation
of "midget car" as "microvettura" by Fernanda Pivano
in late '50s is
tip i noted a much as i first read
OTR its was in 1969
(exactley i was
19 years old) & in italy in that time car were all
tiny! (do u
remember by way the FIAT 500 or TOPOLINO?) & the problem was noted but (in
the much spontaneous prose kerouac-esque) forgotten, now cos
i re-read like an
escher painting the keroauc works i was hit by
that "midget
car" (dont' ask me why) "trouble",
a) in italy there
is FORMULA 1 (formula uno) who is referring
to car like driving by men like Shumacher or
Villeneuve
& it's the TOP of racing car
b) less than
FORMULA UNO is FORMULA 3 (formula tre)
that are car racing
but with low performance & not drived by
famous
driver as the above mentioned
i think Fernanda
Pivano translated "microvettura" in a jump
of creativity
'cuz "formula 3" was much matched with italian
life
& of course
here in italy is not gambler for racing car except
lottery
(another matter
is horse racing),
have u by chance
a *.gif picture of a "midget car"?
ciao e grazie,
Rinaldo.
Chris wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>Much like
go-carts on steroids. Whereas a go-cart has no body, the miget
>cars look
literally like racecars for midgets. I'd
be glad to help you
>with anything
else.
>Chris
>
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>> thanks a
lot for yr information, im' always trouble by little
>>
particulras in OTR, the midget car is one, in other words,
>>
"microvettura" = go-cart & in 1959 (date of it translation) this
>> races
not in italy, i believed that midget car was something
>> like
formula 3 (a bit low for the FORMULA 1, racing by Ferrari),
>> now
things are much cleared,
>> again
grazie,
>> ciao da
>> Rinaldo.
>>
>> At 13.01
14/07/97 -0700, Chris wrote:
>>
>Rinaldo,
>> >
>>
>Miget cars are much like Go-Carts.
They are slightly larger and have
>>
>sturdy steel-tube frame and a fiberglass body. The engines are somewhat
>>
>powerfull for these little cars (I'd the cars are about the size of a
>> >twin
bed?). They are raced on fairly small,
circular dirt tracks. They
>> >are
still raced today. I'll try to find a
bit more information on the
>>
>American NASCAR site for you if you'd like.
>> >
>>
>Chris
>> >
>> >
>
>To: runner711
<babu@electriciti.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: An
Illiterate Impression of Visions of Cody
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900aff147124ea3@[198.5.212.100]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970715140259.00685f18@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901aff0a83dfcbd@[198.5.212.52]>
<970714113837_-2044436868@emout17.mail.aol.com>
Grazie a te,
ciao da Rinaldo.
>Thanx for the
interpret, Rinaldo.
>
>cheers,
Douglas
Return-Path:
<shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul
1997 08:12:09 -0700 (MST)
From:
"Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Gianni Versace.
Rinaldo....
would you please
translate this for me at your convinience?
I apologize for
my language limitations but was saddened by the news.
-Shannon (in
Tucson, Arizona)
On Wed, 16 Jul
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> COME VORREI MORIRE by Gianni Versace
>
> COME IL CONTE SALINA DI LAMPEDUSA,
> IL GATTOPARDO: GUARDANDO
> IL LAGO, CON SERENITA'.
> LA MORTE NON MI FA PAURA.
>
>
> ---
> yrs
> Rinaldo.
>
To: "Shannon
L. Stephens" <shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Gianni Versace.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970716080959.12636A-100000@baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970716131247.006c7a44@pop.gpnet.it>
Shannon,
apologies i dont'
want to seem arrogant,
but in this case
i have preferred respectfully to post
the original
text,
now i give u a
translation
------------------------------------------
How i
want to die by Gianni Versace
Like
the Count of Salina,
the
Gattopardo:
Looking at the lake with calm.
The
death doesn't do me fear.
-------------------------------------------
in this epigram
Gianni Versace quoted the film "Il Gattopardo"
directed by
Luchino Visconti in the early '60s (the Count of Salina
starred by Burt
Lancaster). at the end of the film the Count
of Salina
(nicknamed "Il Gattopardo",= The Leopard) knows that
his time is over
& feels the spleen of the decadence of Sicilian Nobility.
The film "Il
Gattopardo" is originated from the book written by
Giuseppe Tomasi
di Lampedusa, a best-seller in the late '50s.
Giuseppe Tomasi
di Lampedusa was a Sicilian Nobleman & the book
is
autobiographic.
Gianni Versace
was from Calabria an area near Sicily,
thnx alot for yr
interest 'bout a tragic fate of a Son of the Italy,
hope i helped u,
Rinaldo.
--------
At 08.12 16/07/97
-0700, Shannon L. Stephens wrote:
>
>Rinaldo....
>would you
please translate this for me at your convinience?
>I apologize
for my language limitations but was saddened by the news.
>
>-Shannon (in
Tucson, Arizona)
>
>
>On Wed, 16
Jul 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> COME VORREI MORIRE by Gianni Versace
>>
>> COME IL CONTE SALINA DI LAMPEDUSA,
>> IL GATTOPARDO: GUARDANDO
>> IL LAGO, CON SERENITA'.
>> LA MORTE NON MI FA PAURA.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> yrs
>> Rinaldo.
>>
>
>Return-Path:
<shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul
1997 10:52:47 -0700 (MST)
From:
"Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Gianni
Versace.
Rinaldo...
You did not seem
arrogant for posting your message in the language of its
origin. In fact,
I feel bad that I needed to ask for a translation. I
hope to acquire
more languages throughout my lifetime. You were very
generous to take
the time to translate it for me. My brain so longs to
look at the
Italian and have the words register their meaning. Hopefully
soon. Maybe
someday I will see your country with these eyes of mine that
have seen so
little but long to see much. I assume your world is a bit
more colorful
than mine.
Thanks again....
Shan
Return-Path:
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul
1997 17:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: Gerald
Nicosia <gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Subject: Un
questione per lei
Caro
Rinaldo, il seideci luglio, 1997
Ho un questione per lei. Scrivo mio autobiografia per il
"encyclopedia"
chiamato "Contemporary Authors," qui sera publiato in Detroit
il anno
prossimo.
Mi scusate, I will switch to English,
since my Italian is not so
good any more.
I am writing about my grandfather,
scrivo di mio nonno, who came to
Chicago from
Sicily in 1906--qui e venuto a Chicago da Sicilia in 1906. My
father always
called him "Charlie" in English; mio padre l'ha chiamato
"Charlie"
in inglese; but he said his Italian name sounded something like
"Cologero." Son nome in italiano a sonato qualque cosa
come "Cologero." Do
you know what the
real Italian spelling of this name is? I
WOULD GREATLY
APPRECIATE THIS
INFORMATION FOR MY AUTOBIOGRAPHY.
Tanti grazie in anticipo.
Vostra amico, Geraldo
To: Gerald
Nicosia <gnicosia@earthlink.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Un
questione per lei
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199707170052.RAA24665@norway.it.earthlink.net>
References:
Caro Geraldo,
good mornig!,
in italian
language the real spelling is "Calogero",
the name Calogero
is almost usually in South of the
Italy, and if a
person here in North of Italy heard
a person called
Calogero, instantly he recognized
as siciliano. I
dont' know why Calogero became in
american language
as Charlie that seems to me as in
italian Charlie =
"Carlo" (or "Carletto").
the spelling
sound of the name Calogero is
Ca="Ca"
as sound in the word Ca_rd
lo="lo"
as sound in the word Lo_w
ge="ge"
as sound in the word Ge_ntleman
ro="ro"
as sound in the word Ro_me
i hope these
informations help u,
i hope yr
autobiografia go on!,
if u need further
information im' here,
carissimi saluti
dal tuo amico
Rinaldo.
>Caro
Rinaldo, il seideci luglio, 1997
>
> Ho un questione per lei. Scrivo mio autobiografia per il
>"encyclopedia"
chiamato "Contemporary Authors," qui sera publiato in Detroit
>il anno
prossimo.
> Mi scusate, I will switch to English,
since my Italian is not so
>good any
more.
> I am writing about my grandfather,
scrivo di mio nonno, who came to
>Chicago from
Sicily in 1906--qui e venuto a Chicago da Sicilia in 1906. My
>father always
called him "Charlie" in English; mio padre l'ha chiamato
>"Charlie"
in inglese; but he said his Italian name sounded something like
>"Cologero." Son nome in italiano a sonato qualque cosa
come "Cologero." Do
>you know what
the real Italian spelling of this name is?
I WOULD GREATLY
>APPRECIATE
THIS INFORMATION FOR MY AUTOBIOGRAPHY.
> Tanti grazie in anticipo.
> Vostra amico, Geraldo
>
>
>Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:51:19 -0400
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: [Fwd:
Mail System Error - Returned Mail]
Rinaldo:
I tried to
forward off of Maya's posts and they were returned.
Here they are.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclawReturn-Path:
<>
To:
bocelts@scsn.net
From: Mail
Administrator<Postmaster@mail.scsn.net>
Reply-To: Mail
Administrator<Postmaster@mail.scsn.net>
Subject: Mail
System Error - Returned Mail
Date: Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:34:48 -0400
Message-ID:
<19970719143448920.AAA100@mail.scsn.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/mixed;
Boundary="===========================_
_= 6168823(100)"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7BIT
This Message was
undeliverable due to the following reason:
Your message was
not delivered because the DNS records for the
destination
computer could not be found. Carefully
check that
the address was
spelled correctly, and try sending it again if
there were any
mistakes.
It is also
possible that a network problem caused this situation,
so if you are
sure the address is correct you might want to try to
send it
again. If the problem continues, contact
your friendly
system
administrator.
Host gpn.scsn.net not found
The following
recipients did not receive this message:
<rinaldo@gpn.scsn.net>
Please reply to
Postmaster@mail.scsn.net
if you feel this
message to be in error.
Received: from
bocelts ([208.133.153.13]) by mail.scsn.net
(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a
ID# 0-32322U5000L100S10000)
with ESMTP id AAA183; Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:34:37 -0400
Message-ID:
<33D0D295.9D66F789@scsn.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:43:34 -0400
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.0 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
CC:
stauffer@pacbell.net, cosmicat@erols.com,
babu@electriciti.com, race@midusa.net,
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca,
letabor@cruzio.com,
CVEditions@aol.com, Tread37@aol.com,
MATT.HANNAN@otc.usoc.cchub.com,
SSASN@aol.com,
jgrant@bookzen.com, kenster@mit.edu,
love_singing@msn.com,
rinaldo@gpn
Subject: Dreams
X-Priority: 3
(Normal)
References:
<970719015350_128104710@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Last night I
dreamed that I was arrested for smoking a joint of
marijuana. I was sentenced to one year in jail. In the jail was my
brother (who
really is in prison for stealing from a pharmacy). I was
worried that I
would be disbarred if I could not get out soon.
A woman
came and spent
the weekend with me in the jail. But I
would not sleep
with her, even
though I liked her quite a lot. I am
married. I knew I
could get time
off for good behavior, but wondered how long that would
take. Then I found out that any time I wanted to
that I could just walk
out of the jail
and walk back in. I worried that I would
get more time
if they found out
that I was out. So, I just took care of
my business
and went back to
jail and made my bed. Then I talked to
some narcs that
I knew and asked
them to help me get out. Then I saw an
attorney and he
said that I was
set up by he local cops because of something that I had
done. He told me that my phone had been tapped.
So, my question
is, what kind of country do we live in where we make
criminals out of
children for smoking a hemp plant. I
wonder about the
conflicts inside
of me. This was a dream.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclawReturn-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:51:50 -0400
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: [Fwd:
Mail System Error - Returned Mail]
Here is the
second one that failed. Take care.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclawReturn-Path:
<>
To:
bocelts@scsn.net
From: Mail
Administrator<Postmaster@mail.scsn.net>
Reply-To: Mail
Administrator<Postmaster@mail.scsn.net>
Subject: Mail
System Error - Returned Mail
Date: Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:38:03 -0400
Message-ID:
<19970719143803860.AAA155@mail.scsn.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/mixed;
Boundary="===========================_
_= 6418151(155)"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7BIT
This Message was
undeliverable due to the following reason:
Your message was
not delivered because the DNS records for the
destination
computer could not be found. Carefully
check that
the address was
spelled correctly, and try sending it again if
there were any
mistakes.
It is also
possible that a network problem caused this situation,
so if you are
sure the address is correct you might want to try to
send it
again. If the problem continues, contact
your friendly
system
administrator.
Host gpn.scsn.net not found
The following
recipients did not receive this message:
<rinaldo@gpn.scsn.net>
Please reply to
Postmaster@mail.scsn.net
if you feel this
message to be in error.
Received: from
bocelts ([208.133.153.13]) by mail.scsn.net
(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a
ID# 0-32322U5000L100S10000)
with ESMTP id AAA122; Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:37:50 -0400
Message-ID:
<33D0D35B.81DE52AD@scsn.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul
1997 10:46:51 -0400
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.0 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
CC:
stauffer@pacbell.net, cosmicat@erols.com,
babu@electriciti.com, race@midusa.net,
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca,
letabor@cruzio.com,
CVEditions@aol.com, Tread37@aol.com,
MATT.HANNAN@otc.usoc.cchub.com,
SSASN@aol.com,
jgrant@bookzen.com, kenster@mit.edu,
love_singing@msn.com,
rinaldo@gpn
Subject: Re:
sawatdee ka
X-Priority: 3
(Normal)
References:
<970719015350_128104710@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Marioka7@aol.com
wrote:
>
> sawatdee ka
means hello inThai.
>
> just wanted to see if y'all were still
alive. I guess I am. It
> was so
> fargin' hot
today in our nation's capital, and then it
> tropical-stormed.
>
> So much for the weather update. I am here for 8 more days and
> then i
> leave
temporarily, and then in september I'll be here for about 3
> weeks. And
> then I'm
gone for good to the exotic far east. Not soon enough, if you
> ask
> me.
>
> I have a feeling that i won't come
back. I'm not the type to
> get
> homesick,
you see, having never had much of a home for very long to
> miss. My
> parents?
Well, they can shove it. They never
liked anything i wrote
> or
> painted
anyway, they only pretended (on rare occasions when they
> bothered to
> pretend).
>
> my mother told me she hated Picasso
yesterday. My father told
> me he
> hated
Picasso last week. How can I live with
these people? When they
> dis
> the one
person, besides Burroughs whom they wouldn't even THINK of
> reading,
> who is so
important to my values my life and fundamental to the way I
> think?
>
>
> I need so badly to escape it hurts. people can be such pieces
> of shit.
> So self-obsessed. My shitty friends, my shitty parents, my
shitty
>
boyfriend. The only people I want to be
with are perfect strangers.
> At
> least they
don't pretend they give a rat's ass when they just want to
> manipulate
you to suit their own needs. Of course,
strangers still
> lie, but
> they lie a
lot less, because they know they have nothing to lose from
> you.
>
> The current social fabric is such that
you HAVE to lie. In
> fact, we
> are taught
to lie from the day be are born. i
refuse to take part in
> this
> farce. Of course, i will still lie to my boss,
prospective empoyer,
> etc.,
> but not to
people i care about.
>
> for example, in highschool/college,
most people i knew tried
> so hard
> to hide it
from their parents that they smoked pot.
Some peoples'
> parents
> ended up
finding out anyway. I, on the other
hand, am the only person
> i know
> who just
told their parents by referrring to it casually in
> conversation
one
> day. Same goes for sex.
>
> The more we talk about what's really
going on in our lives,
> the more
> we
know. I whish i could tell all parents
out there: /silence
> doesn't
> protect your
kid. It kills. Silence is ignorance, and
ignorance means
> you
> don't know
how to avoid something. Drug addiction,
pregnancy, Name
> That
> Evil.
>
> i don't care if it HAS improved my
writing or painting, i
> still will
> never
forgive my parents for the oppressive silence they imposed on
> me,
> forcing me
to keep my screaming thoughts locked inside my head. They
> are
> only
starting to come out now, my thoughts i mean. I never knew they
> belonged
> to me, or
that they were any good.
>
> but i have
to be carful not to let them all out at the same time. I
> have to
> use
discipline. Patience. let them out one
at a time to give them
> maximum
> power ao
they dont just get lost. This is the
difference between me
> and my
>
parents: they have stopped trying to see
things in different ways. I
> am
> still
searching for different modes of perception.
For me, this is
> living.
> my parents might as well be dead. Forgive me for saying that, it
> does make
> me sad, but
it's what I think. What do you have to live for if you
> feel that
> you know it
all already?
>
> sorry for
rambling. It's my way of exorcizing my
own little demons.
>
> ciao,
>
> maya
>
> ps, my
advice. Living with your parents for a few monthe while in
> between
> apartments
may SOUND like a good idea at first but DON"T DO IT if they
> re anything
like mine.
Maya:
My wife and I
both believe we were born in California or the North East,
and then sent to
live in South Carolina with our adoptive families. We
know that these
people can not be our parents. Ever
thought of that?
My mother does
like Hendrix and the Doors though.
Personally, I get
annoyed at her
chatter about the Greatful Dead. I think
she may be a
hippie who is too
scared to live. Shame, cause she is 62.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclawReturn-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul
1997 19:53:30 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: [Fwd:
Re: tshirt order]
Rinaldo,
Could you
translate this for me? I gather that the
t-shirt home page
people will not
be able to ship to the US til September.
The rest
eludes me, does
it make sense to you with your substantially better
Italian?
James
Return-Path:
mphlcl@mbox.vol.it
Received: from
mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by
mail-sf1.pacbell.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA21286 for
<stauffer@chumash.snfc21.pbi.net>; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from
tin.it (box1.tin.it [195.31.190.111]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net
(8.8.5/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id OAA11599 for <stauffer@pacbell.net>;
Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:23:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from
TIN.tin.it ([195.103.249.124]) by mbox.vol.it with SMTP
(1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA002643809; Sun, 20 Jul
1997 23:23:30 +0200
Message-Id:
<33D28084.5BB8@mbox.vol.it>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul
1997 23:17:56 +0200
From: Barbara
<mphlcl@mbox.vol.it>
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
Subject: Re:
tshirt order
References:
<199705042051.NAA25749@web54.ntx.net>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Gentile Cliente,
ci dispiace
doverti informare che a causa della burocrazia che
attanaglia questa
bella Italia siamo stati costretti a sospendere il
nostro servizio
fino a meta' settembre.
Per quella data
saranno riprese le spedizioni e potrai ricevere quanto
ordinato.
Ci dispiace molto
per questo contrattempo purtroppo indipendente dalla
nostra volonta'
ma oggi sta diventando impossibile iniziare un'attivita'
senza incorrere
in bolli e controbolli che sembrano fatti apposta per
scoraggiare
chiunque abbia un'idea.
Ti ringraziamo
anche a nome dell'ANLAIDS per il tuo ordine e speriamo
che se un
burocrate non ha scoraggiato noi, nemmeno tu ti senta
scoraggiato e che
continuerai a supportarci in questa iniziativa.
Grazie e...a
settembre!
Luca, t.@.shirt
To:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
[Fwd: Mail System Error - Returned Mail]
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33D0D467.FC4919E7@scsn.net>
References:
Dear Bentz,
grazie per avermi
spedito il racconto di Maya, thanks a lot
for the fwd,
My address is
rinaldo@gpnet.it
As you notice
Maya has mistyped my address & then the post
was justyl
returned to the original sender,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
At 10.51 19/07/97
-0400, bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby) wrote:
>Rinaldo:
>
>I tried to
forward off of Maya's posts and they were returned.
>
>Here they
are.
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>Your message
was not delivered because the DNS records for the
>destination
computer could not be found. Carefully
check that
>the address
was spelled correctly, and try sending it again if
>there were
any mistakes.
>To:
Marioka7@aol.com
>CC:
stauffer@pacbell.net, cosmicat@erols.com,
> babu@electriciti.com, race@midusa.net,
> dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca,
letabor@cruzio.com,
> CVEditions@aol.com, Tread37@aol.com,
> MATT.HANNAN@otc.usoc.cchub.com, SSASN@aol.com,
> jgrant@bookzen.com, kenster@mit.edu,
love_singing@msn.com,
> rinaldo@gpn
>Subject:
Dreams
>Last night...
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanx
for "Dreams"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Maya,
my email address
is
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Maya, to notice
you mistyped my internet address,
please, correct
the address in CC form 'cuz the email
bounce back to yr
mailbox, i received yr "Dreams"
thnx R. Bentz
Kirby forwarded me,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
>Your message
was not delivered because the DNS records for the
>destination
computer could not be found. Carefully
check that
>the address
was spelled correctly, and try sending it again if
>there were
any mistakes.
>
>CC:
stauffer@pacbell.net, cosmicat@erols.com,
> babu@electriciti.com, race@midusa.net,
> dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca,
letabor@cruzio.com,
> CVEditions@aol.com, Tread37@aol.com,
> MATT.HANNAN@otc.usoc.cchub.com, SSASN@aol.com,
> jgrant@bookzen.com, kenster@mit.edu,
love_singing@msn.com,
> rinaldo@gpn
>Subject:
Dreams
>Last night...
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: red tape
of italian earth post Re: [Fwd: Re: tshirt order]
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33D2CF2A.4E64@pacbell.net>
References:
James,
you are right,
until September (
just 15 September 1997 )
you cannot obtain
the t-shirt,
the other words in
the message are
gentle apologies
& tell you that
in Italia from
July to August, all workers stopped,
ahem, in primis
statal bureaucracy who must convalidate
a consignment in
foreign countries, but dont' get
discouraged, the
ANLAIDS tell you to be patient, &
continue to
support the initiative,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
>Rinaldo,
>
>Could you
translate this for me? I gather that the
t-shirt home page
>people will
not be able to ship to the US til September.
The rest
>eludes me,
does it make sense to you with your substantially better
>Italian?
>
>James
>Return-Path:
mphlcl@mbox.vol.it
>Received:
from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by
mail-sf1.pacbell.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA21286 for
<stauffer@chumash.snfc21.pbi.net>; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
>Received:
from tin.it (box1.tin.it [195.31.190.111]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net
(8.8.5/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id OAA11599 for <stauffer@pacbell.net>;
Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:23:14 -0700 (PDT)
>Received:
from TIN.tin.it ([195.103.249.124]) by mbox.vol.it with SMTP
> (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA002643809; Sun, 20 Jul
1997 23:23:30 +0200
>Message-Id:
<33D28084.5BB8@mbox.vol.it>
>Date: Sun, 20
Jul 1997 23:17:56 +0200
>From: Barbara
<mphlcl@mbox.vol.it>
>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
>Mime-Version:
1.0
>To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
>Subject: Re:
tshirt order
>References:
<199705042051.NAA25749@web54.ntx.net>
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
>Gentile Cliente,
>ci dispiace
doverti informare che a causa della burocrazia che
>attanaglia
questa bella Italia siamo stati costretti a sospendere il
>nostro
servizio fino a meta' settembre.
>Per quella
data saranno riprese le spedizioni e potrai ricevere quanto
>ordinato.
>
>Ci dispiace
molto per questo contrattempo purtroppo indipendente dalla
>nostra
volonta' ma oggi sta diventando impossibile iniziare un'attivita'
>senza
incorrere in bolli e controbolli che sembrano fatti apposta per
>scoraggiare
chiunque abbia un'idea.
>
>Ti
ringraziamo anche a nome dell'ANLAIDS per il tuo ordine e speriamo
>che se un
burocrate non ha scoraggiato noi, nemmeno tu ti senta
>scoraggiato e
che continuerai a supportarci in questa iniziativa.
>
>Grazie e...a
settembre!
>
>Luca,
t.@.shirt
>
>Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul
1997 21:13:12 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: red
tape of italian earth post Re: [Fwd: Re: tshirt order]
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> James,
>
> you are
right,
> until
September ( just 15 September 1997 )
> you cannot
obtain the t-shirt,
>
> the other
words in the message are
> gentle
apologies & tell you that
> in Italia
from July to August, all workers stopped,
> ahem, in
primis statal bureaucracy who must convalidate
> a
consignment in foreign countries, but dont' get
> discouraged,
the ANLAIDS tell you to be patient, &
> continue to
support the initiative,
>
> ciao da
> Rinaldo.
>
> >Rinaldo,
> >
> >Could
you translate this for me? I gather that
the t-shirt home page
> >people
will not be able to ship to the US til September. The rest
> >eludes
me, does it make sense to you with your substantially better
> >Italian?
> >
> >James
>
>Return-Path: mphlcl@mbox.vol.it
>
>Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55])
> by
mail-sf1.pacbell.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA21286 for
>
<stauffer@chumash.snfc21.pbi.net>; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Received: from tin.it (box1.tin.it [195.31.190.111]) by
>
mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.5/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id OAA11599 for
>
<stauffer@pacbell.net>; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:23:14 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Received: from TIN.tin.it ([195.103.249.124]) by mbox.vol.it with SMTP
> > (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA002643809; Sun,
20 Jul 1997 23:23:30 +0200
>
>Message-Id: <33D28084.5BB8@mbox.vol.it>
> >Date:
Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:17:56 +0200
> >From:
Barbara <mphlcl@mbox.vol.it>
>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
> >To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
> >Subject:
Re: tshirt order
>
>References: <199705042051.NAA25749@web54.ntx.net>
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> >Gentile
Cliente,
> >ci
dispiace doverti informare che a causa della burocrazia che
>
>attanaglia questa bella Italia siamo stati costretti a sospendere il
> >nostro
servizio fino a meta' settembre.
> >Per
quella data saranno riprese le spedizioni e potrai ricevere quanto
>
>ordinato.
> >
> >Ci
dispiace molto per questo contrattempo purtroppo indipendente dalla
> >nostra
volonta' ma oggi sta diventando impossibile iniziare un'attivita'
> >senza
incorrere in bolli e controbolli che sembrano fatti apposta per
>
>scoraggiare chiunque abbia un'idea.
> >
> >Ti
ringraziamo anche a nome dell'ANLAIDS per il tuo ordine e speriamo
> >che se
un burocrate non ha scoraggiato noi, nemmeno tu ti senta
>
>scoraggiato e che continuerai a supportarci in questa iniziativa.
> >
> >Grazie
e...a settembre!
> >
> >Luca,
t.@.shirt
> >
> >
Thanks very much
for your kind translation. I greatly
envy the Italian
August vacation
here in the country of Jack Kerouac we have no equally
civilized
tradition. If the t-shirt girls are as
gorgeous as the one
on the home page I am more than willing to
patiently wait. Any luck
with Lamantia
books from your niece?
James
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul
1997 10:03:33 -0400 (EDT)
To: rinaldo@GPNET.IT
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: hi
friend!
rinaldo, i mailed your tape yesterday, hope
you get it soon. also
hope you can be
honest with me if you don't like it.
really!
love
marie
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: response
to yr letter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33D584B3.1270@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970722143334.0068809c@pop.gpnet.it>
James,
my niece comes
back from london with "kicks joy
darkness"
she was at the
"compendium" in london (but not found any
books requested)
then she went to virgin megastores & bought
the last CD
remained in the store & perhaps in london...
ciao da
Rinaldo.
(Venezia,Mestre-Italia)
-----------------------
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: hi
friend!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901affcd76f51ee@[206.25.67.102]>
References:
marie,
grazie!!!, my
niece was back from a vacancy of two weeks in london
& she has
bought for me "kicks joy darkness", do u tellin'me to
paragon yr works
with kerouac!? btw every time i saw in the newsstand
the
"mad" magazine i think of marie, i dont' know why...
i hope u are in
helth, i hope that the postman hurry up, &
ciao da
rinaldo.
> rinaldo, i mailed your tape yesterday, hope
you get it soon. also
>hope you can
be honest with me if you don't like it.
>really!
>love
>marie
Return-Path:
<SSASN@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul
1997 16:28:29 -0400 (EDT)
From:
SSASN@aol.com
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
(FWD)Another Short Interview with William S. Burroughs
Dear Rinaldo:
Thank you for
posting the WSB interview, I enjoyed reading it and can't wait
for the book it's
going to be included in to come out.
Near the end, WSB
says that he
spent less than a year in Algiers, and the interviewer says that
it was during
1947, to which WSB responds that it was at "about" that time.
My scholarship on this matter confirms that it
could not have been 1947, if
it was less than
1 year altogether. The biographies, and
a careful reading
of the episode in
the middle of ON THE ROAD in which Kerouac, Cassady & co.
visit WSB and his
ill-fated family in Algiers during this period, indicate
that the visit
took place in early 1949- on the way to Algiers, they stopped
in Washington
D.C. and attended President Truman's inauguration (January 20,
1949). So, if WSB spent less than 1 year there, and
JK visited him in 1949,
he could not have
lived there during 1947. According to
most of the
biographies as I
recall, WSB spent all or most of 1947 with his family in New
Waverly, Texas,
growing marijuana with the assistance of
Herbert Huncke.
Notice how WSB says that's "about"
when he lived there. This is typical of
him, JUNKY begins
with "My first experience with junk was during the war,
ABOUT 1944 or
1945(emphasis mine)". JUNKY was
written shortly after the
period of his
life that it chronicles, so why should he be so vague about
when it took
place? This vagueness sets the tone for
the book, a junky
exists in a
biological limbo outside of real time, in "junk time". He again
uses the same
vagueness when referring to the Algiers period, when he was on
Junk and is part
of the chronology described in JUNKY.
This may be obscure
hairsplitting,
but I hate it when people in a position like this interviewer
who will have
influence on the public get it wrong, even in this minor way.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Arthur S. Nusbaum
To: SSASN@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(FWD)William S. Burroughs interview
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970728162552_43265908@emout15.mail.aol.com>
References:
>Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
>Date: Wed, 16
Jul 1997 05:42:42 -0800
>From: bofus?
<bofus@fcom.com>
>To:
bofus@fcom.com
>Subject:
William S. Burroughs interview
>
>(Many
gracious thanks to Ron Whitehead for
>sending along
the interview he
>conducted
with William S. Burroughs
>recently.
Unfortunately, during the
>final
xeroxing stage, the photocopy machine
>mysteriously
malfunctioned,
>swallowing
the original text. The
>progenitors
gone, these then are the
>remnants of
the crossed and tattered
>offspring
spit from the machine...)
>
>
>RW: Burroughs?
> -
Burroughs?
>
>WSB: Burroughs. Oh, of course, yes, yes.
>
>RW: I'm right now producing
>the William
S. Burroughs Chamber.
>
>WSB: Oh, of course, yes, yes. It's an honor.
>
>RW: Burroughs?
>
>WSB: A small handful of police confiscated the
>literature.
Fine letters on freedom: Jim Carroll,
>Lee Ranaldo,
windows, genitals, Bob Dylan Icons.
>Midnight
visitors with shotguns discovered
>paper
visions.
>The Explorer
put the finger on me.
>
>RW: Federal Agents?
>
>WSB: No. No.
>
>A
>handful
>of dreams
>banging
>on the door.
>
>An illegal
search.
>
>RW: I just received letters from Rene.
>
>WSB: He made out with James Joyce...
>
>RW: Imagine...
>
>WSB: The first breakthrough to fear
>are strange
rumours.
>
>RW: Are you intrigued by Anarchy?
>
>WWB: Hmm....not sure.
>Perhaps over
time, intrigued.
>
>RS: So it wasn't a burden?
>
>SBR: No it wasn't. I've worked in bed,
>forced to do
what I can in American Language.
>
>WW: Land is cheap in the ironic south.
>
>BSR: The east and west coasts are obsessed
>with
mythological chambers.
>
>SW: The Magic Police
>shot Jesus
>in New
Orleans.
>B
>
>RW: The world is showing up inside itself.
>Allen
Ginsberg is altering the course of Lang-
>uage in
Government. Good friends are exploding.
>Rumbling with
attitude.
>A Powerful
bird
>
>WR: Oh yes, yes, of course.
>It's an
honor.
>
>SWW: A
linguistic fortune, as always.
>
>RWBSW: Always
special.
>
>RBWWS: Always
in special amounts.
>At first,
absurd questions.
>Then - Music,
Vision, Conviction.
>Contesses
beating some bohemian box.
>
>RW: Any memories that you miss?
>
>WSB: America.
>Early
twenties.
>Young. Blond.
Handsome.
>
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul
1997 07:36:05 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: hihi
hi rinaldo,
how are you
today?
DC (diane carter)
of beat-l took me to the lake champlain yesterday and
today is taking
me on a ride through the white mountains of new hampshire,
up to the top of
mount washington. it is really nice when people take me
for rides.
i've been
thinking of you. i know it's too early yet, but did you get my
tape yet?
marie
Return-Path:
<letabor@cruzio.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul
1997 10:13:18 -0700
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
1960s
Your poems are a
joy to read. Thanks
leon
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> 1960s
>
> i myself
>
> sitting in back of the class
>
> precisely!
>
> daze!
>
> SITTING IN BACK OF THE CLASS
>
> oh, im' not here
>
> bleary-eyed
>
> tiny butterflies
> pinball & jazz
>
> rage
> thanks anyway!
>
> i look around for
> a rosy picture
>
> sitting
> in back
> of the
> classroom.
>
> ---
> yrs
> Rinaldo.
> .-
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
would u like something
to drink?
[WATER FOR DOGS!]
(i have)
[PHONED HIM
last night]
(but he was)
[DRUNK]
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: hihi
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020912b005f0066cb5@[206.25.67.109]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970731073842.00688cd8@pop.gpnet.it>
marie,
i would like to
express i look forward very much yr tape.
im' as usual here
between the old city of Venice & the
Industrial Park,
glass buildings & others in ruins,
retired people,
old people, pigeons inside empty rooms,
young men walk
rambling, I HOPE U DONT'KNOW HOW MUCH CRAZY
ARE TODAY THE
ITALIANS!,
yr mountain
excursion recall me when i was teen-ager
& i passed
summers in the alpine dolomites mountains near Cortina
where my
relatives was owners of a house, but it was circa 35 years ago,
now changed 'cuz
excavetors,... & this no loger the case, but it was a
happy age, very
happy.
stammi bene,
yr
rinaldo.
To: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanks
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33E0C7AE.FB4DBBCF@cruzio.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970731185728.00685f80@pop.gpnet.it>
>Your poems
are a joy to read. Thanks
>leon
>
Ti ringrazio Leon
per i gentilissimi complimenti,
saluti,
Rinaldo.To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
final breakthrough
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33E45705.110B@sk.sympatico.ca>
References:
Adrien, i agree
with u,
today 1:30 p.m.
the domestic italian tv commemorate
W.S.B. on the
news, televised a black & white clip
performing
Burroughs' reading,
at your
convenience,
i like to receive
the .wav file,
thanks,
Rinaldo.
At 03.01 03/08/97
-0700, you vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca wrote:
>This is the
worst fucking year I've ever had.
>Everyone's
dying on me.
>Family,
friends, and heroes.
>MotherFUCK.
>
>Adrien
>
>"When I
become death, death is the seed from which I grow."
>--Uncle Bill
>(I have a
.wav file of that quote (63k), and I can send it out to anyone
>who wants it.
Lemme know.)
>
>To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
final breakthrough
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33E4C32A.525E@sk.sympatico.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970803142247.006fddb0@pop.gpnet.it>
Adrien, thanks
alot,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
>
>Rinaldo, my
good man,
>
>Good to know
the Italian media is acknowledging wsb...the local media
>here won't go
anywhere near the topic.
>
>Enjoy the
clip.
>
>Adrien
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\DEATH.WAV"
>Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Aug
1997 23:22:42 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
CC:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re:
William Burroughs Is Dead
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> David,
>
> the
Burroughs death is televised by the three domestic TV channel,
> i hope
that's appreciate by William S. Burroughs, who is in paradise!,
>
(broadcasting nationwide, meaning audience 20 000 000 of italians),
> in primis
the "Catholic" channel RAI UNO Corporation from Rome,
> that stated
Burroughs tragic life & way of Life, Burroughs is/was
> the other
side of the "American Dream" & latin pietas is the message,
>
rinaldo, i just
want to let you know that i really appreciate the
quality of your
posts. your are a dear and knowing man.
patricia
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: i've
listened to yr tape
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020912b005f0066cb5@[206.25.67.109]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970731073842.00688cd8@pop.gpnet.it>
Marie,
received today yr audio tape reading,
yr voice is beatiful
yr pomes are beatiful
beatiful!
yr
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug
1997 07:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: i've
listened to yr tape
rinaldo:
i am so happy
that you got the tape, so happy that you like it. 'beautiful'
makes me blush
but yes they are, aren't they?
again, so happy
love
marie
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: i've
listened to yr tape
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020902b0106bb2f491@[206.25.67.125]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970807193040.00694ac8@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020912b005f0066cb5@[206.25.67.109]>
<3.0.1.32.19970731073842.00688cd8@pop.gpnet.it>
marie,
i've yr poems
work in my beat heart,
dont' call me a
fussy but as u encourage me
to review them,
ehm, i can tell u i would like
something like a
libretto (booklet) of yr
pomes, or i'm
asking too much, oh i've said!, cuz of
now im'
necessarily to divide the stream of poetry,
to really
understood everything, & i dunno if its'
really what u
wish,
btw BUT go on the
years i prefer the voice better that read...
BEAUTIFUL, yes!
BEAUTIFUL,
yr
rinaldo.
>rinaldo:
>i am so happy
that you got the tape, so happy that you like it. 'beautiful'
>makes me
blush but yes they are, aren't they?
>again, so
happy
>love
>marie
>
Return-Path:
<muzik@prodigy.net>
From:
"muzik" <muzik@prodigy.net>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: A Gay State.
Date: Fri, 8 Aug
1997 08:25:07 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOle:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3
A post-beat spoken-word type guy, Jello Biafra
[of Dead Kennedys fame] did
alot of
investigation into this topic and wrote a few songs concerning it --
even a remake of
"I Shot the Law and I won."
He was very
angered by this heinous crime and the abiltity of the man to
walk off without
punishment.
-
D. Taylor
Singletary, Hipster and Slackellectual . muzik@prodigy.net
-----Original
Message-----
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Friday,
August 08, 1997 6:15 AM
Subject: A Gay
State.
>dear friends,
>
>at the end of
the 1970s William Seward Burroughs wrote an article
>in which he
imagined the capability of a State for the homosexuals.
>he takes the
Chinese TONG as ones's model.
>
>the WSB's
article took as starting point a crime news occured
>on 27th nov
1978. Harvey Milk, a San Francisco municipal councillor,
>was massacred
together with the mayor George Moscone.
>Dan White,
the murderer, was convicted at a paltry term of punishment.
>after the
shocking sentence, in San Francisco there was a riot,
>
>sani,
>Rinaldo.
>*
>"Un'utopia
fascinosa, ma irrealizabile. In fondo William Burroughs
>ha sempre
avuto un piede nel futuro. Accadde in un piccolo paese
>della
California verso la fine degli anni Sessanta. Un gruppo di
>gay penso' di
mettere in piedi una forma di autogoverno, ma
>l'iniziativa
venne reclamizzata troppo e le autorita' locali
>opposero tali
difficolta' che l'idea naufrago'. Anche in Italia
>un illustre
pensatore cattolico si augurava che lo Stato Italiano
>concedesse ai
gay un'isola disabitata.---Angelo Pezzana
>interviewed
by the newspaper ''la Repubblica'', 8th aug 1997"
>*
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug
1997 14:42:59 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: i've
listened to yr tape
i dont have a
real booklet out yet, rinaldo, but i could send you all of
the poems that i
have to date, most of which are on the tape. would that
help?
i feel so
wonderful that you like my voice, my reading - i've always been
self conscious on
tapes and things. thankyou, my heartbrother.
love
marie
>>
>>
>im' looking
for the booklet,
>ciao rinaldo.
To: Sharon Ngiam
<mimosa@PACIFIC.NET.SG>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(further) Re: Chinese Tong
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 13.26 09/08/97
+0800,
Sharon Ngiam
<mimosa@PACIFIC.NET.SG> wrote:
>What is the
Chinese TONG?
>
>
Sharon,
perhaps it's
better to retrieve the original source
(William S.
Burroughs' article, the citation in the book
''Gay Spirit,
Mith and Meaning'' by Mark Thompson, 1987).
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
To: 'Rinaldo
Rasa' <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
(FWD) How the beats beat the First Amendment
Date: Tue, 12 Aug
1997 09:47:53 -0700
Rinaldo, thanx
for all your news clipping posts.
Douglas
>----------
>From: Rinaldo Rasa[SMTP:rinaldo@GPNET.IT]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 2:20 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: (FWD) How the beats beat the First Amendment
>
>>Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
>>Date:
Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:27:32 -0800
>>From:
bofus? <bofus@fcom.com>
>>To:
bofus@fcom.com
>>Subject:
How the beats beat the First Amendment
>>
>>How the
beats beat the First Amendment
>>
>>
>>N.Y.
Times News Service
>>
>>(August
11, 1997 11:58 a.m. EDT) - The last year has been pretty much
>>the end
of the road for the Beat Generation, with the deaths of Herbert
>>Huncke,
the hustler who gave Jack Kerouac the word "beat," Allen
>>Ginsberg,
who gave poetry "Howl," and, on Aug. 2, William S. Burroughs,
>>who gave
the world, ready or not, "Naked Lunch."
>>
>>The
beats' defiance of authority and their experimentation with drugs
>>and sex
helped set a generation on course for the counterculture of the
>>1960s.
Not that censors didn't see what was coming. In 1957 Ginsberg
>>overcame
an obscenity prosecution for "Howl," which celebrated
>>homosexuality
and eroticism. In 1965 "Naked Lunch," in which Burroughs
>>opened
the doors to hallucinatory visions of American society, was ruled
>>obscene
in Massachusetts.
>>
>>For
Burroughs' American publisher, Grove Press, this was good news. When
>>it first
came out in France in 1959, "Naked Lunch" wasn't even reviewed.
>>After
1965, it was a cause celebre.
>>
>>Better
yet, before the Massachusetts Supreme Court heard Grove's appeal
>>in 1966,
the U.S. Supreme Court set a new precedent in a case involving
>>"John
Cleland's Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure" -- Fanny Hill. Its
>>ruling
meant that to be found pornographic, "Naked Lunch" would have to
>>be
"utterly without redeeming social value."
>>
>>The
result was a literary trial that elevated the least upbeat of the
>>beats
(Burroughs had a dim view of humanity) to cult status. Grove
>>rushed
out a new edition that included testimony. In it, the
>>uncertainties
on both sides of the wavering cultural divide showed. To
>>get
along, even the beats had to play along. Excerpts from that edition
>>follow.
-- GEORGE JUDSON
>>
>>Burroughs,
a former drug addict with a pharmacologist's knowledge of
>>narcotics,
had tried to inoculate "Naked Lunch" against challenges with
>>an
introduction describing a high purpose:
>>
>>I awoke
from The Sickness at the age of forty-five, calm and sane, and
>>in
reasonably good health except for a weakened liver and the look of
>>borrowed
flesh common to all who survive The Sickness. . . . I have no
>>precise
memory of writing the notes which have now been published under
>>the title
"Naked Lunch." The title was suggested by Jack Kerouac. I did
>>not
understand what the title meant until my recent recovery. The title
>>means
exactly what the words say: NAKED Lunch -- a frozen moment when
>>everyone
sees what is on the end of every fork.
>>
>>The
Sickness is drug addiction and I was an addict for fifteen years. .
>>. .
>>
>>So
"Naked Lunch" was a brief for eliminating heroin use by treating
>>junkies
rather than punishing them. Burroughs made his case:
>>
>>Dope
fiends are sick people who cannot act other than they do. . . .
>>Assuming
a self-righteous position is nothing to the purpose unless your
>>purpose
is to keep the junk virus in operation. And junk is a big
>>industry."
. . .
>>
>>The junk
virus is public health problem number one of the world today
>>(emphasis
his). Since "Naked Lunch" treats this health problem, it is
>>necessarily
brutal, obscene and disgusting.
>>
>>What
about the lurid sex scenes that include, among many activities,
>>hangings?
He explained:
>>
>>Certain
passages in the book that have been called pornographic were
>>written
as a tract against Capital Punishment in the manner of Jonathan
>>Swift's
"Modest Proposal." These sections are intended to reveal capital
>>punishment
as the obscene, barbaric and disgusting anachronism it is.
>>
>>The dodge
didn't work; a judge ruled "Naked Lunch" was hard-core
>>pornography.
As the appeal moved along, other novels with legal troubles
>>included
"Candy" by Terry Southern and "Last Exit to Brooklyn" by
Hubert
>>Selby Jr.
Norman Mailer testified for Burroughs:
>>
>>There is
a kind of speech that is referred to as gutter talk that often
>>has a
very fine, incisive, dramatic line to it; and Burroughs captures
>>that
speech like no American writer I know. He also . . . has an
>>exquisite
poetic sense. His poetic images are intense. They are often
>>disgusting;
but at the same time there is a sense of collision in them,
>>of
montage that is quite unusual.
>>
>>Mailer
also found deep meaning:
>>
>>William
Burroughs is in my opinion -- whatever his conscious intention
>>may be --
a religious writer. There is a sense in "Naked Lunch" of the
>>destruction
of soul, which is more intense than any I have encountered
>>in any
other modern novel. It is a vision of how mankind would act if
>>man was
totally divorced from eternity. . . .
>>
>>Just as
Hieronymus Bosch set down the most diabolical and blood-curdling
>>details .
. . so, too, does Burroughs leave you with an intimate,
>>detailed
vision of what Hell might be like, a Hell which may be waiting
>>as the
culmination, the final product, of the scientific revolution.
>>
>>Allen
Ginsberg testified, too:
>>
>>The
concept of addiction is carried out to include, in Burroughs'
>>phrase,
"control addicts," or people who are habituated or pushing other
>>people
around. What it boils down to: controlling them sexually,
>>politically,
socially. . . . there are almost scientific expositions
>>given by
the author of techniques of mass brainwash and mass control,
>>and
theories of modern dictatorships, theories of modern police states.
>>. . .
>>
>>I think
he is laconically, satirically analyzing them and presenting
>>evidences
of these activities in our modern culture, now and then in a
>>science-fiction
style, projecting them into the future, nightmare
>>situations
if control addicts took over.
>>
>>Ginsberg,
a homosexual and former lover of Burroughs, was asked to sort
>>out the
political parties portrayed in "Naked Lunch." Who, satirically,
>>was whom?
"The Divisionists (one party in the book) are the
>>homosexuals?"
the court asked. There seemed likely to be a correct
>>answer:
>>
>>Yes. The
Divisionist is a parody of a homosexual situation also; but
>>Burroughs
is (Ginsberg's emphasis) attacking the homosexuals in this
>>book
also.
>>
>>The court
then asked, "Do the conservatives fall into any particular sex
>>class in
this book?" Ginsberg replied:
>>
>>Well, I
think the conservatives, if we consider the Factualist (another
>>party) to
be conservative, I think they have a feeling of laissez-faire,
>>whatever
is natural, whatever does no harm will be acceptable. . . .
>>
>>A justice
put in:
>>
>>"Lest
anyone take this seriously, of course, obviously it is a fantasy."
>>
>>But the
justice soon returned to homosexuality:
>>
>>"Let
me ask again. Do you think he is seriously suggesting that some
>>time in
the future that a political party will be in some way concerned
>>with sex?
(Grove's lawyer tried to speak.) Excuse me. When I say,
>>"Concerned
with sex," I don't mean in an attempt to reform perversion. .
>>. . what
he is trying to portray here, is that some time in the future
>>there
will be a political party, for instance, made up of homosexuals?
>>
>>Ginsberg
replied:
>>
>>Well, I
think, saying that, this has already happened in a sense, -- or
>>of sex
perverts -- and we can point to Hitler, Germany under Hitler.
>>
>>In a 4-2
decision, the court found that "Naked Lunch" "may appeal to the
>>prurient
interest of deviants and those curious about deviants. To us,
>>it is
grossly offensive and is what the author himself says, 'brutal,
>>obscene
and disgusting.' "
>>
>>But
applying the new federal test, the court stated, "we cannot ignore
>>the
serious acceptance of it by so many persons in the literary
>>community.
Hence, we cannot say that 'Naked Lunch' has no 'redeeming
>>social
importance.' "
>>
>>"Naked
Lunch" passed. And the obscenity test has since been revised; it
>>now
requires a "reasonable person" to find that a work is prurient,
>>violates
contemporary community standards and, taken as a whole, "lacks
>>serious
literary, artistic, political or scientific value."
>>
>>Ginsberg
concluded his testimony with a poem, "On Burroughs' Work." It
>>ends:
>>
>>A naked
lunch is natural to us, we eat reality sandwiches. But
>>allegories
are so much lettuce. Don't hide the madness.
>>
>>
>
To: Antoine
Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
(FWD) q: ranaldo & a: burroughs, 9 april 97
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997081201084449@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Antoine,
bofus is Mike
Watt of San Pedro, California.
please, check his
home page
http://www.fcom.com/~bofus/index.html
Mike is a bass
player & send funny
things to his
friends, i was chatting with mike
few months ago,
sometime he emails me a newsletter
& sometime
something is related to Beat,
i hope this help,
saluti
Rinaldo.
At 01.08 12/08/97
-0400, Antoine wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
> Where did you get that terrific
intervew between Lee Ranaldo and
>Burroughs?
Ranaldo has done some music by himself away from Sonic Youth that
>I really
like. The interview was terrific with all the references to Bowles
>and the
others.
>
> Thanks
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>Return-Path:
<shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug
1997 09:10:45 -0700 (MST)
From:
"Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
who's who?
Thanks so much
for the information Rinaldo. I'm so pleased that people
took my request
seriously. Knowing the ins and outs certainly adds to my
reading of on the
road.
-shannon
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug
1997 08:04:54 -0700
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: Re:
about razor
Thanx! Reminds me of the chinese fortune cookie that
warned: "beware of
excesses"
Douglas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
At 1:17 AM -0700
8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >Rinaldo,
you are such a tease. Somebody please
translate?
> >
> >Douglas
>
>
>> ENTIA NON SUNT
MULTIPLICANDA
>
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
> >>
>
> please,
excuse me, the translation is
>
> "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
|
0 |
step aside, and
let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon
(soul coughing) =========
To:
dkpenn@OEES.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: how to
get beat-l list archive
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
douglas,
u can obtain the
archive beat using such command line
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the body
GET BEAT-L
LOG9707 BEAT-L
if u like receive
the july archive, if u wish to
receive the
another month archive i.e. april 96
u send a new
messagge at the same address but
in the body writ
get beat-l log9604 beat-l
i hope this match
yr request information,
saluti,
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
To: 'Rinaldo
Rasa' <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE: how
to get beat-l list archive
Date: Thu, 14 Aug
1997 11:28:24 -0700
Rinaldo,
I take back my earlier
comment about you being a tease .... you're a
saint!!
thank you very
much, Douglas
>----------
>From: Rinaldo Rasa[SMTP:rinaldo@gpnet.it]
>Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 11:16 AM
>To: Penn, Douglas, K
>Subject: how to get beat-l list archive
>
>douglas,
>u can obtain
the archive beat using such command line
>
>LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>in the body
>
>GET BEAT-L
LOG9707 BEAT-L
>
>if u like
receive the july archive, if u wish to
>receive the
another month archive i.e. april 96
>u send a new
messagge at the same address but
>in the body
writ get beat-l log9604 beat-l
>
>i hope this
match yr request information,
>
>saluti,
>Rinaldo.
>
To:
shanstep@cs.arizona.edu
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re: spiritual
glimpse (personal request)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970813090938.5799B-100000@baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970813133746.00b201b8@pop.gpnet.it>
Shannon L.
Stephens wrote:
(in Tucson, where
the heat has somehow prompted my search for
god...)
Shannon,
also here in
suburb of Venice, Italy, is heat, in the mid
august holiday
here's heat heat heat, & i know (i hope) what you
mean in the above
phrase, some beat lit it's not possible to
read in such a
hot condition, id est a few weeks ago i re-read
the (new) italian
translation of Ginsberg's "Howl" & "Kaddish"
& i was
demoralized alot, then i re-read "On The Road" &
i've noticed a
much satisfaction, i think this is related with
the spiritual
content of JK's work. maybe i'm wrong but
really some beat
works need a time & (perhaps an age) to gave
the beast to
people, only an idea, i think, that spiritual work
beat the blue (or
the blue out of the blue) in a manner that
other works dont
do,
only some nightly
thoughts...
saluti cordiali,
Rinaldo.
To: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
about razor
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901b018ced7516e@[208.193.147.103]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970814101751.00689a6c@pop.gpnet.it>
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970812172530Z-539@sd-mail.sd.oee s.com>
Douglas,
a medieval
philosopher crosses a chinese cook...
fine!
saluti,
Rinaldo
-------
>Thanx! Reminds me of the chinese fortune cookie that
warned: "beware of
>excesses"
>
>Douglas
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>At 1:17 AM
-0700 8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>
>>
>Rinaldo, you are such a tease.
Somebody please translate?
>> >
>>
>Douglas
>>
>> >> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
>>
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>> >>
>>
>> please,
excuse me, the translation is
>>
>> "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
>
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug
1997 18:30:27 -0700
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: Re:
about razor
<<laugh>>
At 2:23 PM -0700
8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> Douglas,
> a medieval
philosopher crosses a chinese cook...
> fine!
>
> saluti,
> Rinaldo
> -------
>
>Thanx! Reminds me of the chinese
fortune cookie that warned: "beware
of
>
>excesses"
> >
> >Douglas
> >
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >At 1:17
AM -0700 8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
>Rinaldo, you are such a tease.
Somebody please translate?
> >>
>
> >>
>Douglas
> >>
> >>
>> ENTIA NON SUNT
MULTIPLICANDA
> >>
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
> >>
>>
> >>
> >>
please, excuse me, the translation is
> >>
>
>> "IT IS VAIN TO DO
WITH MORE
>
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH
FEWER"
> >
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
|
0 |
step aside, and
let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon
(soul coughing) =========
To: runner
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Douglas,
agree with u...
sorry but Charles Bukowski is not
present in the
beat writers i posted, (!??!), there's
no excuses...
the list was:
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
Paul Blackburn
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
William S.
Burroughs
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
Paul Carroll
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady
Andy Clausen
Gregory Corso
Robert Creely
Diane DiPrima
Kirby Doyle
Robert Duncan
Bob Dylan
William Everson
(Brother Antonus)
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Allen Ginsberg
Brion Gysin
John Cellon
Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Ted Joans
Lenore Kandel
Bob Kaufman
Jan Kerouac
Jack kerouac
Ken Kesey
Seymour Krim
Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
Timothy Leary
Lawrence Lipton
Norman Mailer
Edward Marshall
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
John Montgomery
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
Charles Olson
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Kenneth Rexroth
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Jack Spicer
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
Anne Waldman
Alan Watts
Lew Welch
Philip Whalen
John Weiners
William Carlos
Williams
-- the end --
u are right
there's alot of beat people is alive,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug
1997 00:41:29 -0700
To: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: the big
lie (babu)
Cc:
<jeter@europa.com>, ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu, agit8@hotmail.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>, thau@hotwired.com,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com,
Gerald Houghton
<houghtong@globalnet.co.uk>, gershwin@cinenet.net,
Raminocs@aol.com, HollyBauer@aol.com,
jack.bissell@sandiegoca.ncr.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com, jaybab@cinenet.net,
jill@jillbell.com,
jeter@europa.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, Marioka7@aol.com,
ignatz@sirius.com,
oktober@post.cis.smu.edu, GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
googie@wam.umd.edu, tpreece@pacbell.net,
vpaul@gwdi.com,
mpener@jcccnet.johnco.cc.ks.us, palad@sprynet.com,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
stauffer@pacbell.net
is that the more
we invest in the system, the more we'll get out
that thresholds
can be bargained with if you know the right codes
and that there
will never be any consequences
never any
reactions in the opposite direction
coming straight
and narrow and where are the defenses against that?
so I want you to
lie to me. don't tell me the truth. don't fucking want
to hear it.
or just don't
tell me. what do I care? I've got porcupine skin.
every try getting
next to me. If I don't shout, you can't
see me.
and I might be
cold to your presence, but I'm not dead.
so, pick an image
from the gallery guide:
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Gallery_guide2.html
and tell me what
you really think
and if it meets
that elusive babu criteria
then maybe I'll
include it with the image
bound and
tethered to the eternal question:
WHAT IS BABU?
Douglas
oh yeah, and tell
me if you want off this list
by replying
"unsubscribe" as the subject line
IT IS A FELONY TO
REPRODUCE THIS EMAIL WITHOUT MY CONSENT
;-)
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
|
0 | The
map is
not the territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> | /\ |
=========
Return-Path:
<stratis@odyssee.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug
1997 16:31:39 +0200 (MET DST)
X-Sender:
stratis@pop.microtec.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From:
stratis@odyssee.net (Antoine Maloney)
Subject:
half-japanese sardines...
Rinaldo,
Are you a fan of the American band
Half-japanese? One passage in
your latest poem
reminded me of their song "Always". Also, partly because
Jad Fair, in the
song, mentions Dylan and Neil Young with the same kind of
line
breaks...very nice. Did you see my post about the lyrics of "Lost
inside of
Mobile...."? ...whether you were
setting a test for us?
Antoine
**************
>i think of
you often BEATs!
>
> before digital tape
> before 'puter
> before the yellow radiation suits
>
>i think of
you often...
>gregory corso
aka gregorio nunzio corso
>
>
(the bomB)
>before
> get rid of everything, funny things are
everywhere
>
> they wear radiation suits,
>
>before
pre-taped-recorded world wake up say something
> EVERYONE HAS THEIR 15 MINUTES OF FAME!
>
>& bob
dylan can changin' lyrics
>& neal
young was young 20 on Sugar Mountain,
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
--
Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
To:
stratis@odyssee.net (Antoine Maloney)
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
half-japanese sardines...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<m0x1ukV-000rcBC@gpnet.it>
References:
Antoine,
Dylan & Neal
Young was together in the cult movie "The Last Waltz",
(a farewell for
the Band),
btw#1 i like yr
posts on the Beat-List.
btw#2 i'm
appreciating alot Neal Young but seems not so maudit
to became
recognized as a "maestro".
btw#3
"memphis blues again" is a-song-a-changin' by dylan himself,
my lyric is dated
1971 (!) so i think u are perfectly right on.
btw#4 thanks to
keep seriuosly my sardines.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:32:03 -0700
>Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
>Subject: More SF Beat-L Party Pics
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Leon Tabory,
Estelle and Jerry Cimino, J. Stauffer
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon .jpg"
>
James,
i use Quick Time
Picture View (32 bit) but
im' sorry but my
'puter refuse to show me the picture.
idunno the
reason,
saluti cordiali,
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug
1997 20:57:35 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>
>Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997
08:32:03 -0700
>
>Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
>
>Subject: More SF Beat-L Party
Pics
> >To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >
> >Leon
Tabory, Estelle and Jerry Cimino, J. Stauffer
> >
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon .jpg"
> >
>
> James,
>
> i use Quick
Time Picture View (32 bit) but
> im' sorry
but my 'puter refuse to show me the picture.
>
> idunno the
reason,
>
> saluti cordiali,
> Rinaldo.
Antoine had the
same problem. I will try again. Maybe we have
different
viewers. I am ignorant of these
things. Let me know if you
get anything.
James
To: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanks
alot... friend.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Leon,
i like yr
courtesy, i like u to take seriously my sardines.
im' just in a
difficult moment of life, my mother having
years ago a
severe heart attack, after surgical bypass she was
saved, problems
are now occuring and pain is coming but
God gave us the
Life & then life gone... i tell this 'cuz i love
yr gentle feeling
leon,
sorry for the
occurence of unknown email address i dunno what
happen in the
international internet channels, i receive regularly
the messages from
the beat-list, maybe was a temporary failure of
my provider
server or in padua where all the messages are routed before
sended to
venice-mestre node, i think...
about the SF
meeting James picture i cant' display the
image having an
error message from my 'puter, i dunno why,
ciao da
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug
1997 19:28:22 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Rinaldo, I just posted another three pictures. Let me know if they
come
through. If not I will post direct and
maybe not having the
listserv in the
middle they will work better.
James
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug
1997 19:29:40 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
This is the
original post-- Leon, Estelle and Jerry Cimino and me.
James
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 1.jpg"
Return-Path:
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks a lot... friend.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug
1997 06:59:17 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOle:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3
Good Sunday Rinaldo,
+AD4-Leon,
+AD4-i like yr
courtesy, i like u to take seriously my sardines.
+AD4-
They spoke to me.
Looked at me I should say. Made me look at them rather.
Your poem evoked
a strong response in me. As always.
+AD4-im' just in
a difficult moment of life, my mother having
+AD4-years ago a
severe heart attack, after surgical bypass she was
+AD4-saved,
problems are now occuring and pain is coming but
+AD4-God gave us
the Life +ACY- then life gone... i tell this 'cuz i love
+AD4-yr gentle
feeling leon,
Thank you
Rinaldo. I feel honored that you choose to share yor sorrow.
Hopefully the
pain eases.
+AD4-
+AD4-sorry for
the occurence of unknown email address i dunno what
+AD4-happen in
the international internet channels, i receive regularly
+AD4-the messages
from the beat-list, maybe was a temporary failure of
+AD4-my provider
server or in padua where all the messages are routed before
+AD4-sended to
venice-mestre node, i think...
In a way I feel
reassured when the computers turn up a glitch. They are not
as scary then to
this glitch prone person. Although the error is probably
human, still the
computer can't overpower the human then.
+AD4-
+AD4-about the SF
meeting James picture i cant' display the
+AD4-image having
an error message from my 'puter, i dunno why,
+AD4-
I see that you
are using Eudora light version 3.01, Mime 1.0, us-ascii
character set. I
don't know Eudora, but I know it is very good. I am at the
moment trying out
Microsoft Outlook Express (Internet Explorer 4). It seems
to do really
well. The only difference that I noticed is that my options
include mapping
us-ascii -+AD4-Universal Alphabet (UTF-7) text/plain. I don't
know if this
helps, but I am enclosing the photo that was not repeated
yesterday. Maybe
you got the ones posted yesterday ok. If not
and this one
comes through,
let me know and i can forward you the others.
+AD4-ciao da
+AD4-Rinaldo.
Ciao
leon
+AD4-.-
+AD4-
Return-Path:
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks a lot... friend.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug
1997 07:04:20 -0700
X-Unsent: 1
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOle:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3
Good Sunday
Rinaldo,
+AD4-Leon,
+AD4-i like yr
courtesy, i like u to take seriously my sardines.
+AD4-
They spoke to me.
Looked at me I should say. Made me look at them rather.
Your poem evoked
a strong response in me. As always.
+AD4-im' just in
a difficult moment of life, my mother having
+AD4-years ago a
severe heart attack, after surgical bypass she was
+AD4-saved,
problems are now occuring and pain is coming but
+AD4-God gave us
the Life +ACY- then life gone... i tell this 'cuz i love
+AD4-yr gentle
feeling leon,
Thank you
Rinaldo. I feel honored that you choose to share yor sorrow.
Hopefully the
pain eases.
+AD4-
+AD4-sorry for
the occurence of unknown email address i dunno what
+AD4-happen in
the international internet channels, i receive regularly
+AD4-the messages
from the beat-list, maybe was a temporary failure of
+AD4-my provider
server or in padua where all the messages are routed before
+AD4-sended to
venice-mestre node, i think...
In a way I feel
reassured when the computers turn up a glitch. They are not
as scary then to
this glitch prone person. Although the error is probably
human, still the
computer can't overpower the human then.
+AD4-
+AD4-about the SF
meeting James picture i cant' display the
+AD4-image having
an error message from my 'puter, i dunno why,
+AD4-
I see that you
are using Eudora light version 3.01, Mime 1.0, us-ascii
character set. I
don't know Eudora, but I know it is very good. I am at the
moment trying out
Microsoft Outlook Express (Internet Explorer 4). It seems
to do really
well. The only difference that I noticed is that my options
include mapping
us-ascii -+AD4-Universal Alphabet (UTF-7) text/plain. I don't
know if this
helps, but I am enclosing the photo that was not repeated
yesterday. Maybe
you got the ones posted yesterday ok. If not
and this one
comes through,
let me know and i can forward you the others.
+AD4-ciao da
+AD4-Rinaldo.
Ciao
leon
+AD4-.-
+AD4-
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 2.jpg"
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug
1997 17:49:50 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Pics
Rinaldo
Did the pics come
through at all? Antoine Maloney was
having the same
problem and found
that if he just looked at the files through his
browser rather
than trying to spin off a viewer they worked just fine.
James
Posted 4
different pics to the List.
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33FF9C93.6B6C@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970822220522.006ba850@pop.gpnet.it>
James,
great! great!
great!
Thanks for the
gift!
I'm happy to see
you!
grazie amici,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
>This is the
original post-- Leon, Estelle and Jerry Cimino and me.
>
>James
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 1.jpg"
>To: Leon
Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks a lot... friend.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<9708240709.aa10192@mail.cruzio.com>
References:
Leon,
now i can see...
it's nice to see
friends!
grazie e ciao da
Rinaldo.
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 2.jpg"
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug
1997 09:20:01 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> James,
>
> great!
great! great!
> Thanks for
the gift!
> I'm happy to
see you!
>
> grazie
amici, ciao da
> Rinaldo.
>
> >This is
the original post-- Leon, Estelle and Jerry Cimino and me.
> >
> >James
> >
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 1.jpg"
> >
Rinaldo,
did the other
photo's come through off the list? There
should be one
labeled
"Anne", one "Glensher" and one "Lisa" . If they didn't reach
you let me know
and I will send them direct.
James
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3401B0B1.954@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970822220522.006ba850@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19970825132225.00698ae0@pop.gpnet.it>
James,
allright
everything!
i've all the
great picture u mentioned!
---
technical note: i
followed the Antoine's suggestion & have
setup my www
browser to display the pic format jpg & then all works
fine.
i think possible
problems with the picture seems become using dedicated
programs viewer
like Quick Time, CorelDraw, LViewPro, which
cant' recognized
the jpg format dowloaded (id est LView prompts
an error message
like "unsupported SOF marker", and other
viewers also
message error referring not enuf amount of
memory for
temporary files et similia).
---
di nuovo grazie e
ciao da
Rinaldo.
>Rinaldo,
>
>did the other
photo's come through off the list? There
should be one
>labeled
"Anne", one "Glensher" and one "Lisa" . If they didn't reach
>you let me
know and I will send them direct.
>
>James
>
Return-Path:
<junky@burroughs.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug
1997 14:05:51 -0600
To:
Waterrow@AOL.COM, gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU, mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET,
DawnDR@AOL.COM, elwellg@VOICENET.COM,
pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM,
kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU,
jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU, DIXCIN@AOL.COM,
tcoomber@CIACCESS.COM, race@MIDUSA.NET,
Ddrooy@AOL.COM,
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca,
rinaldo@GPNET.IT, howl420@JUNO.COM,
CVEditions@AOL.COM, rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG
From: Sorted
<junky@burroughs.net>
Subject: Posts on
the burroughs.net Memorial pages.
Hello.
I'm writing to
let you know that your post(s) from early august to the
Beat-L Mailing
list regarding
the death of
William Burroughs is currently a part of the burroughs.net
memorial page.
I'd written to
the list a couple weeks ago asking permission to use these
posts, and of the
seven people
that bothered to
reply, all were in favor.
Take a look at
http://www.burroughs.net. The direct url is
http://www.burroughs.net/mempage1.html
if you have any
problems with anything regarding your post, let me know;
I'll either
change it or take it down, as per your request.
thanks,
-Zach Hoon
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug
1997 21:49:34 -0700
To:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, race@midusa.net, dkpenn@oees.com,
love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
"Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject:
Nightswimming (1997)
Cc:
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us, azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com, Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>, GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Nightswimming.html
0 0
[ ]
'''
}[--=-=-=--=-=-==-==ooooooo=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]{
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
<.> <.>
sorry I missed you at burning man, sarah,
agit8, ethan, dthau
-------------------------------------------------------------
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
Nightswimming
Automatic For The
People
REM (M. Stipe)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(To Song List)
Nightswimming
deserves a quiet night.
The photograph on
the dashboard, taken years ago,
turned around
backwards so the windshield shows.
Every streetlight
reveals the picture in reverse.
Still, it's so
much clearer.
I forgot my shirt
at the water's edge.
The moon is low
tonight.
Nightswimming
deserves a quiet night.
I'm not sure all
these people understand.
It's not like
years ago,
The fear of
getting caught,
of recklessness
and water.
They cannot see
me naked.
These things,
they go away,
replaced by
everyday.
Nightswimming,
remembering that night.
September's
coming soon.
I'm pining for
the moon.
And what if there
were two
Side by side in
orbit
Around the
fairest sun?
That bright,
tight forever drum
could not
describe nightswimming.
You, I thought I
knew you.
You I cannot
judge.
You, I thought
you knew me,
this one laughing
quietly underneath my breath.
Nightswimming.
The photograph
reflects,
every streetlight
a reminder.
Nightswimming
deserves a quiet night, deserves a quiet night.
Find The River
=-=-=-to get off
this list return "unsubscribe" as the subject
Douglas
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 07:50:28 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>,
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET,
dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com,
thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us, azulado@aol.com,
ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net, CVEditions@aol.com,
Dfroley@aol.com, double d
<dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: Re:
Nightswimming (1997)
runner wrote:
>
>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Nightswimming.html
>
>
Nightswimming
> Automatic
For The People
> REM (M.
Stipe)
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> (To Song
List)
>
>
Nightswimming deserves a quiet night.
> The
photograph on the dashboard, taken years ago,
> turned
around backwards so the windshield shows.
> Every
streetlight reveals the picture in reverse.
> Still, it's
so much clearer.
> I forgot my
shirt at the water's edge.
> The moon is
low tonight.
>
>
Nightswimming deserves a quiet night.
> I'm not sure
all these people understand.
> It's not
like years ago,
> The fear of
getting caught,
> of
recklessness and water.
> They cannot
see me naked.
> These
things, they go away,
> replaced by
everyday.
>
>
Nightswimming, remembering that night.
> September's
coming soon.
> I'm pining
for the moon.
> And what if
there were two
> Side by side
in orbit
> Around the
fairest sun?
> That bright,
tight forever drum
> could not
describe nightswimming.
>
> You, I
thought I knew you.
> You I cannot
judge.
> You, I
thought you knew me,
> this one
laughing quietly underneath my breath.
>
Nightswimming.
>
> The
photograph reflects,
> every
streetlight a reminder.
>
Nightswimming deserves a quiet night, deserves a quiet night.
>
> Find The
River
>
Listening to
R.E.M. document "Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves
me Cold"
right now. I will probably not be as
offensively active at the
keyboard today as
i just must quit procrastination on apartment pickup
and cleaning -
open house this weekend for family and whatnot.
But i will be
around the apartment most of the day and would love some
breaks and
whatnot. I'll probably check out another
video - either Snow
White and 7
Dwarfs or Lady and the Tramp i imagine if the library has
not been ravaged
by those rugrats that always move into these adult
films that they
can't possibly comprehend. I say let
them watch the
Godfather at an
early age. Then at our age ... Mary
Poppins and jump
into sidewalk
pictures -- what would it be like to jump into
Nightswimming
???? i think a fairly smooth trip probably.
Anyway, if it is
myth-related or Ulysses related write me on the group
mail (which may
be the best Joyce-L around now) otherwise if random
musings from any
or all participants ... Rod actually does muse believe
it or not ...
after getting home from work ... hilarious backchannels
... use
backchannels to overcome the huge traffic we've created in this
sandbox called
Ulysses.
over and out.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:04:09 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>, runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: Hermes
website from Rod on Ancient Egypt -- a good jumpoff point there
runner wrote:
>
> Find The
River
>
The Nile or the
Mississippi or the River Styx???
http://marlowe.wimsey.com/~rshand/streams/scripts/hermes.html
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:09:32 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>, runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: Web
grounding from the Flood - Leary and Book of Dead
runner wrote:
>
> Find The
River
>
> =-=-=-to get
off this list return "unsubscribe" as the subject
> Douglas
http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psychedelic_experience/tibetan.html
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:21:15 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>, runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: A nice
piece on Transformation in Ulysses including Metempsychosis
runner wrote:
>
> Find The
River
>
> =-=-=-to get
off this list return "unsubscribe" as the subject
> Douglas
I think this
website does a nice job of brieflydiscussing some of the
transformatory
rhetoric in Ulysses and in our own group evolution over
the past
month. Not always pretty - but good
nonetheless.
I'll actually
stop playing and start doing my chores now
http://schottky.ucsd.edu/~paul/literature/paul_ulysses.html
dbr
Return-Path:
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: David
Schwarm <dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats.
Hi,
Thanks for the
update. I have used your list to start
my own little
spreadsheet (with
dates and famous works), please feel free to use this as
you see fit (it
is a WIN3.1 MS Excel file - let me know if you need a
different
format).
David
Schwarm Making jazz
swing in
41
Southbrook Seventeen syllables AIN'T
Irvine, CA 92604 No
square poet's job.
On Thu, 28 Aug
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> Date: Thu,
28 Aug 1997 00:01:10 +0200
> From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Beats.
>
> Donald Allen
> Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
> Paul
Blackburn
> Robin Blaser
> Bonnie
Bremser
> Ray Bremser
> Chandler
Brossard
> Charles
Bukowski
> William S.
Burroughs { 5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 }
> William S.
Burroughs Jr.
> Lucien Carr
> Paul Carroll
> Louis R
Cartwright
> Carolyn
Cassady
> Neal Cassady
{ 8 Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 }
> Andy Clausen
> Gregory
Corso
> Robert
Creeley [Black Mountain School]
> Henry Cru
> Diane
DiPrima
> John Doe
> Kirby Doyle
> Robert
Duncan [Black Mountain School]
> Bob Dylan
> William
Everson (Brother Antonus)
> Richard
Farina
> Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
> Charles
Foster
> Allen
Ginsberg { 3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 }
> John Giorno
> Brion Gysin
> William Inge
> John Cellon
Holmes
> Herbert
Huncke
> Ted Joans
> Joyce
Johnson
> Lenore
Kandel
> Bob Kaufman
> Jack Kerouac
{ 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 }
> Jan Kerouac
> Ken Kesey
> Seymour Krim
> Bob Kaufman
{ 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
> Tuli
Kupferberg
> Joanne Kyger
> Philip
Lamantia
> Jay
Landesman
> Fran
Landesman
> Timothy
Leary
> Lawrence
Lipton
> Malcom Lowry
> Norman
Mailer
> Gerard
Malanga
> Edward
Marshall
> Joanna
McClure
> Michael
McClure
> Taylor Mead
> David
Meltzer
> Jack
Micheline
> Henry Miller
{ 26 Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 }
> John
Montgomery
> Harold Norse
> Frank O'Hara
> Charles
Olson [Black Mountain School]
> Peter
Orlovsky
> Kenneth
Patchen
> Stuart Z.
Perkoff
> Charles
Plymell
> Dan Propper
> Kenneth
Rexroth
> Hugh Romney
> Michael
Rumaker
> Ed Sanders
> Hubert Jr.
Selby
> Gary Snyder
> Carl Solomon
> Jack Spicer
> Hunter
Stockton Thompson
> Charles
Upton
> Janine Pommy
Vega
> Alexander
Trocchi
> Anne Waldman
> Lewis Warsh
> Alan Watts
> Lew Welch
> Philip
Whalen
> John Wieners
> William
Carlos Williams
> -*-
> Hello!,
> i'm listing
the beat generation
> (writers
& painters & performers)
> & i
begin with a list, everyone
> interested
can propose a new name.
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
> thanks,
> Rinaldo Rasa.
> 28th august
1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
> -*-
> credits to
> Richard M.
Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
> OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
> David
Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
> -*-
>
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\beats.xls"
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 13:01:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: THE
KINGFISHERS a Charles Olson's poem (Re: Beats.)
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
thanks. is this
one of his better-known poems?
On Thu, 28 Aug
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> THE KINGFISHERS by Charles Olson
>
> 1
>
> What does
not change / is the will to change
>
> He woke,
fully clothed, in his bed. He
> remembered
only one thing, the birds, how
> when he came
in, he had gone around the rooms
> and got them
back in their cage, the green one first,
> she with the
bad leg, and then the blue,
> the one they
had hoped was a male
>
> Otherwise?
Yes, Fernand, who had talked lispingly of Albert &
>
Angkor Vat.
> He had left
the party without a word. How he got up, got into his
> coat,
> I do not
know. When I saw him, he was at the door, but it did not
>
matter,
> he was
already sliding along the wall of the night, losing himself
> in some
crack of the ruins. That it should have been he who said
>
"The Kingfishers!
> who cares
> for their
feathers
> now?"
>
> His last
words had been, "The pool is slime." Suddenly everyone,
> ceasing
their talk, sat in a row around him, watched
> they did not
so much hear, or pay attention, they
> wondered,
looked at each other, smirked, but listened,
> he repeated
and repeated, could not go beyond his thought
> "The pool the kingfishers' feathers were
wealth why
> did the
export stop?"
> It was then
he left
>
> 2
>
> I thought of
the E on the stone, and of what Mao said
> la
lumiere"
> but the kingfisher
> de
l'aurore"
> but the kingfisher flew west
> est devant
nous!
> he got the color of his breast
> from the heat of the setting sun!
>
> The features
are, the feebleness of the feet (syndactylism of the 3rd
>
& 4th digit)
> the bill,
serrated, sometimes a pronunced beak, the wings
> where the
color is, short and round, the tail
>
inconspicuous.
>
> But not
these things were the factors. Not the birds.
> The legends
are
> legends.
Dead, hung up indoors, the kingfisher
> will not
indicate a favoring wind,
> or avert the
thunderbolt. Nor, by its nesting,
> still the
waters, with the new year., for seven days.
> It is true,
it does nest with the opening year, but not on the waters.
> It nests at
the end of a tunnel bored by itself in a bank. There,
> six or eight
white and translucent eggs are laid, on fishbones
> not on bare
clay, on bones thrown up in pellets by the birds.
>
> On these
rejectamenta
> (as they
accumulate they form a cup-shaped structure) the young
>
are born.
> And, as they
are fed and grow, this nest of excrement and decayed
> fish becomes
> a
dripping, fetid mass
> Mao
concluded:
> nous devons
> nous lever
> et agir!
>
> 3
>
> When the
attentions change / the jungle
> leaps in
> even the stones are split
> they
rive
>
> Or,
> enter
> that other
conqueror we more naturally recognize
> he so resembles
ourselves
> But the E
> cut so
rudely on that oldest stone
> sounded
otherwise,
> was
differently heard
>
> as, in
another time, were treasures used:
>
> (and, later,
much later, a fine ear thought
> a scarlet
coat)
>
> "of green feathers feet, beaks and eyes
> of gold
>
> "animal likewise,
> resembling snails
>
> "a large wheel, gold, with
figures of unknown four-foots,
> and worked with tufts of leaves,
weight
> 3800 ounces
>
> "last, two birds, of thread and
featherwork, the quills
> gold, the feet
> gold, the two birds perched on two
reeds
> gold, the reeds arising from two
embroidered mounds,
> one yellow, the other
> white.
> "And from each reed hung
> seven feathered tassels.
>
> In this
instance, the priests
> (in dark
cotton robes, and dirty,
> their
dishvelled hair matted with blood, and flowing wildly
> over their shoulders)
> rush in
among the people, calling on them
> to protect
their gods
>
> And all now
is war
> where so
lately there was peace.
> and the
sweet brotherhood, the use
> of tilled
fields.
>
>
> Not one
death but many,
> not
accumulation but change, the feed-back proves, the feed-back is
> the law
> Into the same river no man steps twice
> When fire dies air dies
> No one remains, nor is, one
>
> Around an
appearance, one common model, we grow up
> many. Else
how is it,
> if we remain
the same,
> we take
pleasure now
> in what we
did not take pleasure before? love
> contrary
objects? admire and/for find fault? use
> other words,
feel another passions, have
> nor figure,
appearance, disposition, tissue
> the same?
> To be in different states without a
change
> is not a possibility
> We can be
precise. The factors are
> in the
animal and/or the machine the factors are
>
communication and/or control, both involve
> the message.
And what is the message? The message is
> a discrete
or continuous sequence of measurable events distributed
>
in time
>
> is the birth
of air, is
> the birth of
water, is
> a state
between
> the origin
and
> the end,
between
> birth and
the beginning of
> another
fetid nest
>
> is change,
presents
> no more than
itself
>
> And the too
strong grasping of it,
> when it is
pressed together and condensed,
> loses it
>
> This very thing
you are
>
>
> II
>
> They buried their dead in a sitting
posture
> serpent cane razor
ray of the sun
>
> And she sprinkled water on the head of
the child, crying
> "Cioa-coatl! Cioa-coatl!"
> with her face to the west
>
> Where the bones are found, in each
personal heap
> with what each enjoyed, there is
always
> the Mongolian louse
> The light is
in the east. Yes. And we must rise, act. Yet
> in the west,
despite the apparent darkness (the whiteness
> which covers
all), if you look, if you can bear, if you can, long enough
>
> as long as it was necessary for him,
my guide
> to look into the yellow of the longest-lasting
rose
>
> so you must,
and, in that whiteness, into that face, with what candor,
>
look
>
> and,
considering the dryness of the place
> the long absence of an adequate race
>
> (of the two who first came, each a
conquistador, one healed,
>
the other
> tore the eastern idols down, toppled
> the temple walls, which, says the
excuser
> were black from human gore)
>
> hear
> hear, where
the dry blood talks
> where the old appetite walks
>
>
la piu' saporita et migliore
> che si possa
truovar al mondo
>
> where it
hides, look
> in the eye
how it runs
> in the flesh
/ chalk
>
> but under
these petals
> in the
emptiness
> regard the
light, contemplate
> the flower
>
> whence it
arose
>
> with what violence benevolence is
bought
> what cost in gesture justice brings
> what wrongs domestic rights involve
> what stalks
> this silence
>
> what pudor pejorocracy affronts
> how awe, night-rest and neighborhood
can rot
> what breeds where dirtiness is law
> what crawls
> below
>
> III
>
> I am no
Greek, hath not th'advantage.
> And of
course, no Roman:
> he can take
no risk that matters,
> the risk of
beauty least of all.
>
> But I have
my kin, if for no other reason than
> (as he said,
next of kin) I commit myself, and,
> given my
freedom, I'd be a cad
> if I didn't.
Which is most true.
>
> It works out
this way, despite the disadvantage.
> i offer, in
explanation, a quote:
> si j'ai du
gout, ce n'est gueres
> que pour la
terre et les pierres
> Despite the
discrepancy (an ocean courage age)
> this is also
true: if I have any taste
> it is only
because I have interested myself
> in what was
slain in the sun
>
> I pose you your question:
> shall you uncover
honey / where maggots are?
>
> I hunt among stones
>
>
>
>
=========================================
> Michael
Stutz wrote:
> >On Thu,
28 Aug 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >
> >>
Charles Olson [Black Mountain School]
> >
> >I confess,
I never understood his poetry. I don't know how to read it.
> >
> >
>
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael
Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and
as long
as this sentence remains; it comes with
absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:05:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Thursday Morning.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
look at the pony!
rinaldo: so happy
to get this today. i have been thinking of ginsberg's
poem 'supermarket
in california' i believe, and felt his presence when i
had to go to
store with waning store of monies: i wanted to shout: poems
for pears, poems
for peaches, poems for the life of us all. but instead i
bought what i
could afford and left.
i think i've
shoeveled thru the shit and no pony there.
but then, here
you come, with your wonder and all.
thanks
marie
(mc to most)
> teardrops
> misting my eyes
> look
at the pony!
>
> in the morning
> i will bring you
> to the circus
>
> look at the pony!
>
> but early in the dawn the circus has
gone
> white grass on the meadows
> & tiny fog
>
>you haven't
teardrops
> happy childhood next year the circus
will be here
>
> our limits
> are only
> technical matter
> BUT
> into
> this supermarket aisle
> i feel
> suddenly old.
>
>
>Rinaldo.
>28th aug
1997.
To: David Schwarm
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats
Database (Re: Beats.)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970828082125.25110A-101000@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828000110.006a0708@pop.gpnet.it>
David,
i got yr
database, well done!,
it's a great idea
to create a beatS database you
are doing, i ask
you the permission to share yr post &
the xls file
forwarding to the Beat-L mailing list, please
tell me the
answer,
im' updating as
possible the index,
saluti cordiali
da
Rinaldo.
29th aug 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
============ YOUR
MESSAGE ===================
At 08.22 28/08/97
-0700, David Schwarm wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Thanks for
the update. I have used your list to
start my own little
>spreadsheet
(with dates and famous works), please feel free to use this as
>you see fit
(it is a WIN3.1 MS Excel file - let me know if you need a
>different
format).
>
>David
Schwarm Making jazz
swing in
>41
Southbrook Seventeen
syllables AIN'T
>Irvine,
CA 92604 No
square poet's job.
>
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\beats.xls"
>
=========================================================
To: Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Charles
Olson's Books.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.970828130104.21436O-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828142912.00688ef4@pop.gpnet.it>
Michael
glad u appreciate
the poem. regarding further information
'bout Charles
Olson, there's two books:
"The New
American Poetry" by Donald Allen, Grove Press, New York.
(inside there's
"The Kingfishers").
"The Maximus
Poems" by Charles Olson, Jargon/Corinth Books, New York.
i hope this help,
saluti cordiali
da
Rinaldo.
=====================
yr message ==============
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>thanks. is
this one of his better-known poems?
>
>On Thu, 28
Aug 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> THE KINGFISHERS by Charles Olson
===================================================To:
country@SOVER.NET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: friday
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901b02b6d48eefe@[206.25.67.118]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828224552.00686820@pop.gpnet.it>
Marie,
good day, i
myself also often when i'm in a supermarket
i get memories
& very often i must stop the tearsdrops...
& i forget to
buy something...
at the moment in
the life... my mother, who years ago
suffered a severe
heart attack & bypasses saved his
life, now slowly
the pains are coming back, and life
slowly gone... i
fear for...
marie, angel, i
send u a message from the john cage mailing list
when the post was
in my mailbox immediately i think of
u, bouncing
because months ago u think of me regard a
similar visual email,
i hope u are in
health & ciao da
Rinaldo.
===========================================
From:
JCage433@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 12:45:56 -0400 (EDT)
To:
silence@bga.com
Subject: Hi
everyone!
Sender:
owner-silence@lists.realtime.net
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyo n e
!
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi every o n
e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi ever y o
n e !
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi eve r y
o n e
!
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi ev e r
y o n
e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi e v e
r y o
n e !
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e !
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
H i e
v e r
y o n
e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e !
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o
n e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e !
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!!
Hi everyone!!!
Hi everyone!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!
Hi everyone!!!
Hi everyone!!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
Hi
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi
H
Hi
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v e ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y o ne!
H i e
v e r
y o ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y
o n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y
o n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o ne!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v
e ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e ryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug
1997 14:42:59 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: i've
listened to yr tape
i dont have a
real booklet out yet, rinaldo, but i could send you all of
the poems that i
have to date, most of which are on the tape. would that
help?
i feel so
wonderful that you like my voice, my reading - i've always been
self conscious on
tapes and things. thankyou, my heartbrother.
love
marie
>>
>>
>im' looking
for the booklet,
>ciao rinaldo.
To: Sharon Ngiam
<mimosa@PACIFIC.NET.SG>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(further) Re: Chinese Tong
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 13.26 09/08/97
+0800,
Sharon Ngiam
<mimosa@PACIFIC.NET.SG> wrote:
>What is the
Chinese TONG?
>
>
Sharon,
perhaps it's
better to retrieve the original source
(William S.
Burroughs' article, the citation in the book
''Gay Spirit,
Mith and Meaning'' by Mark Thompson, 1987).
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
To: 'Rinaldo
Rasa' <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
(FWD) How the beats beat the First Amendment
Date: Tue, 12 Aug
1997 09:47:53 -0700
Rinaldo, thanx
for all your news clipping posts.
Douglas
>----------
>From: Rinaldo Rasa[SMTP:rinaldo@GPNET.IT]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 2:20 AM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: (FWD) How the beats beat the First Amendment
>
>>Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
>>Date:
Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:27:32 -0800
>>From:
bofus? <bofus@fcom.com>
>>To:
bofus@fcom.com
>>Subject:
How the beats beat the First Amendment
>>
>>How the
beats beat the First Amendment
>>
>>
>>N.Y.
Times News Service
>>
>>(August
11, 1997 11:58 a.m. EDT) - The last year has been pretty much
>>the end
of the road for the Beat Generation, with the deaths of Herbert
>>Huncke,
the hustler who gave Jack Kerouac the word "beat," Allen
>>Ginsberg,
who gave poetry "Howl," and, on Aug. 2, William S. Burroughs,
>>who gave
the world, ready or not, "Naked Lunch."
>>
>>The
beats' defiance of authority and their experimentation with drugs
>>and sex
helped set a generation on course for the counterculture of the
>>1960s.
Not that censors didn't see what was coming. In 1957 Ginsberg
>>overcame
an obscenity prosecution for "Howl," which celebrated
>>homosexuality
and eroticism. In 1965 "Naked Lunch," in which Burroughs
>>opened
the doors to hallucinatory visions of American society, was ruled
>>obscene
in Massachusetts.
>>
>>For
Burroughs' American publisher, Grove Press, this was good news. When
>>it first
came out in France in 1959, "Naked Lunch" wasn't even reviewed.
>>After
1965, it was a cause celebre.
>>
>>Better
yet, before the Massachusetts Supreme Court heard Grove's appeal
>>in 1966,
the U.S. Supreme Court set a new precedent in a case involving
>>"John
Cleland's Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure" -- Fanny Hill. Its
>>ruling
meant that to be found pornographic, "Naked Lunch" would have to
>>be
"utterly without redeeming social value."
>>
>>The
result was a literary trial that elevated the least upbeat of the
>>beats
(Burroughs had a dim view of humanity) to cult status. Grove
>>rushed
out a new edition that included testimony. In it, the
>>uncertainties
on both sides of the wavering cultural divide showed. To
>>get
along, even the beats had to play along. Excerpts from that edition
>>follow.
-- GEORGE JUDSON
>>
>>Burroughs,
a former drug addict with a pharmacologist's knowledge of
>>narcotics,
had tried to inoculate "Naked Lunch" against challenges with
>>an
introduction describing a high purpose:
>>
>>I awoke
from The Sickness at the age of forty-five, calm and sane, and
>>in
reasonably good health except for a weakened liver and the look of
>>borrowed
flesh common to all who survive The Sickness. . . . I have no
>>precise
memory of writing the notes which have now been published under
>>the title
"Naked Lunch." The title was suggested by Jack Kerouac. I did
>>not
understand what the title meant until my recent recovery. The title
>>means
exactly what the words say: NAKED Lunch -- a frozen moment when
>>everyone
sees what is on the end of every fork.
>>
>>The
Sickness is drug addiction and I was an addict for fifteen years. .
>>. .
>>
>>So
"Naked Lunch" was a brief for eliminating heroin use by treating
>>junkies
rather than punishing them. Burroughs made his case:
>>
>>Dope
fiends are sick people who cannot act other than they do. . . .
>>Assuming
a self-righteous position is nothing to the purpose unless your
>>purpose
is to keep the junk virus in operation. And junk is a big
>>industry."
. . .
>>
>>The junk
virus is public health problem number one of the world today
>>(emphasis
his). Since "Naked Lunch" treats this health problem, it is
>>necessarily
brutal, obscene and disgusting.
>>
>>What
about the lurid sex scenes that include, among many activities,
>>hangings?
He explained:
>>
>>Certain
passages in the book that have been called pornographic were
>>written
as a tract against Capital Punishment in the manner of Jonathan
>>Swift's
"Modest Proposal." These sections are intended to reveal capital
>>punishment
as the obscene, barbaric and disgusting anachronism it is.
>>
>>The dodge
didn't work; a judge ruled "Naked Lunch" was hard-core
>>pornography.
As the appeal moved along, other novels with legal troubles
>>included
"Candy" by Terry Southern and "Last Exit to Brooklyn" by
Hubert
>>Selby Jr.
Norman Mailer testified for Burroughs:
>>
>>There is
a kind of speech that is referred to as gutter talk that often
>>has a
very fine, incisive, dramatic line to it; and Burroughs captures
>>that
speech like no American writer I know. He also . . . has an
>>exquisite
poetic sense. His poetic images are intense. They are often
>>disgusting;
but at the same time there is a sense of collision in them,
>>of
montage that is quite unusual.
>>
>>Mailer
also found deep meaning:
>>
>>William
Burroughs is in my opinion -- whatever his conscious intention
>>may be --
a religious writer. There is a sense in "Naked Lunch" of the
>>destruction
of soul, which is more intense than any I have encountered
>>in any
other modern novel. It is a vision of how mankind would act if
>>man was
totally divorced from eternity. . . .
>>
>>Just as
Hieronymus Bosch set down the most diabolical and blood-curdling
>>details .
. . so, too, does Burroughs leave you with an intimate,
>>detailed
vision of what Hell might be like, a Hell which may be waiting
>>as the
culmination, the final product, of the scientific revolution.
>>
>>Allen
Ginsberg testified, too:
>>
>>The
concept of addiction is carried out to include, in Burroughs'
>>phrase,
"control addicts," or people who are habituated or pushing other
>>people
around. What it boils down to: controlling them sexually,
>>politically,
socially. . . . there are almost scientific expositions
>>given by
the author of techniques of mass brainwash and mass control,
>>and
theories of modern dictatorships, theories of modern police states.
>>. . .
>>
>>I think
he is laconically, satirically analyzing them and presenting
>>evidences
of these activities in our modern culture, now and then in a
>>science-fiction
style, projecting them into the future, nightmare
>>situations
if control addicts took over.
>>
>>Ginsberg,
a homosexual and former lover of Burroughs, was asked to sort
>>out the
political parties portrayed in "Naked Lunch." Who, satirically,
>>was whom?
"The Divisionists (one party in the book) are the
>>homosexuals?"
the court asked. There seemed likely to be a correct
>>answer:
>>
>>Yes. The
Divisionist is a parody of a homosexual situation also; but
>>Burroughs
is (Ginsberg's emphasis) attacking the homosexuals in this
>>book
also.
>>
>>The court
then asked, "Do the conservatives fall into any particular sex
>>class in
this book?" Ginsberg replied:
>>
>>Well, I
think the conservatives, if we consider the Factualist (another
>>party) to
be conservative, I think they have a feeling of laissez-faire,
>>whatever
is natural, whatever does no harm will be acceptable. . . .
>>
>>A justice
put in:
>>
>>"Lest
anyone take this seriously, of course, obviously it is a fantasy."
>>
>>But the
justice soon returned to homosexuality:
>>
>>"Let
me ask again. Do you think he is seriously suggesting that some
>>time in
the future that a political party will be in some way concerned
>>with sex?
(Grove's lawyer tried to speak.) Excuse me. When I say,
>>"Concerned
with sex," I don't mean in an attempt to reform perversion. .
>>. . what
he is trying to portray here, is that some time in the future
>>there
will be a political party, for instance, made up of homosexuals?
>>
>>Ginsberg
replied:
>>
>>Well, I
think, saying that, this has already happened in a sense, -- or
>>of sex
perverts -- and we can point to Hitler, Germany under Hitler.
>>
>>In a 4-2
decision, the court found that "Naked Lunch" "may appeal to the
>>prurient
interest of deviants and those curious about deviants. To us,
>>it is
grossly offensive and is what the author himself says, 'brutal,
>>obscene
and disgusting.' "
>>
>>But
applying the new federal test, the court stated, "we cannot ignore
>>the
serious acceptance of it by so many persons in the literary
>>community.
Hence, we cannot say that 'Naked Lunch' has no 'redeeming
>>social
importance.' "
>>
>>"Naked
Lunch" passed. And the obscenity test has since been revised; it
>>now
requires a "reasonable person" to find that a work is prurient,
>>violates
contemporary community standards and, taken as a whole, "lacks
>>serious
literary, artistic, political or scientific value."
>>
>>Ginsberg
concluded his testimony with a poem, "On Burroughs' Work." It
>>ends:
>>
>>A naked
lunch is natural to us, we eat reality sandwiches. But
>>allegories
are so much lettuce. Don't hide the madness.
>>
>>
>
To: Antoine
Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
(FWD) q: ranaldo & a: burroughs, 9 april 97
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997081201084449@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Antoine,
bofus is Mike
Watt of San Pedro, California.
please, check his
home page
http://www.fcom.com/~bofus/index.html
Mike is a bass
player & send funny
things to his
friends, i was chatting with mike
few months ago,
sometime he emails me a newsletter
& sometime
something is related to Beat,
i hope this help,
saluti
Rinaldo.
At 01.08 12/08/97
-0400, Antoine wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
> Where did you get that terrific
intervew between Lee Ranaldo and
>Burroughs?
Ranaldo has done some music by himself away from Sonic Youth that
>I really
like. The interview was terrific with all the references to Bowles
>and the
others.
>
> Thanks
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>Return-Path:
<shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug
1997 09:10:45 -0700 (MST)
From:
"Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@cs.arizona.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
who's who?
Thanks so much
for the information Rinaldo. I'm so pleased that people
took my request
seriously. Knowing the ins and outs certainly adds to my
reading of on the
road.
-shannon
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug
1997 08:04:54 -0700
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: Re:
about razor
Thanx! Reminds me of the chinese fortune cookie that
warned: "beware of
excesses"
Douglas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
At 1:17 AM -0700
8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >Rinaldo,
you are such a tease. Somebody please
translate?
> >
> >Douglas
>
>
>> ENTIA NON SUNT
MULTIPLICANDA
>
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
> >>
>
> please,
excuse me, the translation is
>
> "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
|
0 |
step aside, and
let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon
(soul coughing) =========
To: dkpenn@OEES.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: how to
get beat-l list archive
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
douglas,
u can obtain the
archive beat using such command line
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the body
GET BEAT-L
LOG9707 BEAT-L
if u like receive
the july archive, if u wish to
receive the
another month archive i.e. april 96
u send a new
messagge at the same address but
in the body writ
get beat-l log9604 beat-l
i hope this match
yr request information,
saluti,
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
To: 'Rinaldo
Rasa' <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE: how
to get beat-l list archive
Date: Thu, 14 Aug
1997 11:28:24 -0700
Rinaldo,
I take back my earlier
comment about you being a tease .... you're a
saint!!
thank you very
much, Douglas
>----------
>From: Rinaldo Rasa[SMTP:rinaldo@gpnet.it]
>Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 11:16 AM
>To: Penn, Douglas, K
>Subject: how to get beat-l list archive
>
>douglas,
>u can obtain
the archive beat using such command line
>
>LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>in the body
>
>GET BEAT-L
LOG9707 BEAT-L
>
>if u like
receive the july archive, if u wish to
>receive the
another month archive i.e. april 96
>u send a new
messagge at the same address but
>in the body
writ get beat-l log9604 beat-l
>
>i hope this
match yr request information,
>
>saluti,
>Rinaldo.
>
To:
shanstep@cs.arizona.edu
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re: spiritual
glimpse (personal request)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970813090938.5799B-100000@baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970813133746.00b201b8@pop.gpnet.it>
Shannon L.
Stephens wrote:
(in Tucson, where
the heat has somehow prompted my search for
god...)
Shannon,
also here in
suburb of Venice, Italy, is heat, in the mid
august holiday
here's heat heat heat, & i know (i hope) what you
mean in the above
phrase, some beat lit it's not possible to
read in such a
hot condition, id est a few weeks ago i re-read
the (new) italian
translation of Ginsberg's "Howl" & "Kaddish"
& i was
demoralized alot, then i re-read "On The Road" &
i've noticed a
much satisfaction, i think this is related with
the spiritual
content of JK's work. maybe i'm wrong but
really some beat
works need a time & (perhaps an age) to gave
the beast to
people, only an idea, i think, that spiritual work
beat the blue (or
the blue out of the blue) in a manner that
other works dont
do,
only some nightly
thoughts...
saluti cordiali,
Rinaldo.
To: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
about razor
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901b018ced7516e@[208.193.147.103]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970814101751.00689a6c@pop.gpnet.it>
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970812172530Z-539@sd-mail.sd.oee s.com>
Douglas,
a medieval
philosopher crosses a chinese cook...
fine!
saluti,
Rinaldo
-------
>Thanx! Reminds me of the chinese fortune cookie that
warned: "beware of
>excesses"
>
>Douglas
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>At 1:17 AM
-0700 8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>
>>
>Rinaldo, you are such a tease.
Somebody please translate?
>> >
>>
>Douglas
>>
>> >> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
>>
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>> >>
>>
>> please,
excuse me, the translation is
>>
>> "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
>
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug
1997 18:30:27 -0700
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: Re:
about razor
<<laugh>>
At 2:23 PM -0700
8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> Douglas,
> a medieval
philosopher crosses a chinese cook...
> fine!
>
> saluti,
> Rinaldo
> -------
>
>Thanx! Reminds me of the chinese
fortune cookie that warned: "beware
of
>
>excesses"
> >
> >Douglas
> >
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >At 1:17
AM -0700 8/14/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
>Rinaldo, you are such a tease.
Somebody please translate?
> >>
>
> >>
>Douglas
> >>
> >>
>> ENTIA NON SUNT
MULTIPLICANDA
> >>
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
> >>
>>
> >>
> >>
please, excuse me, the translation is
> >>
>
>> "IT IS VAIN TO DO
WITH MORE
>
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH
FEWER"
> >
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
|
0 |
step aside, and
let the man go thru | { - |
----> let the man go thru | /\ |
super bon-bon
(soul coughing) =========
To: runner
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Douglas,
agree with u...
sorry but Charles Bukowski is not
present in the
beat writers i posted, (!??!), there's
no excuses...
the list was:
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
Paul Blackburn
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
William S.
Burroughs
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
Paul Carroll
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady
Andy Clausen
Gregory Corso
Robert Creely
Diane DiPrima
Kirby Doyle
Robert Duncan
Bob Dylan
William Everson
(Brother Antonus)
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Allen Ginsberg
Brion Gysin
John Cellon
Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Ted Joans
Lenore Kandel
Bob Kaufman
Jan Kerouac
Jack kerouac
Ken Kesey
Seymour Krim
Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
Timothy Leary
Lawrence Lipton
Norman Mailer
Edward Marshall
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
John Montgomery
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
Charles Olson
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Kenneth Rexroth
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Jack Spicer
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
Anne Waldman
Alan Watts
Lew Welch
Philip Whalen
John Weiners
William Carlos
Williams
-- the end --
u are right
there's alot of beat people is alive,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug
1997 00:41:29 -0700
To: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: the big
lie (babu)
Cc:
<jeter@europa.com>, ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu, agit8@hotmail.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>, thau@hotwired.com,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com,
Gerald Houghton
<houghtong@globalnet.co.uk>, gershwin@cinenet.net,
Raminocs@aol.com, HollyBauer@aol.com,
jack.bissell@sandiegoca.ncr.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com, jaybab@cinenet.net,
jill@jillbell.com,
jeter@europa.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, Marioka7@aol.com,
ignatz@sirius.com,
oktober@post.cis.smu.edu, GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
googie@wam.umd.edu, tpreece@pacbell.net,
vpaul@gwdi.com,
mpener@jcccnet.johnco.cc.ks.us, palad@sprynet.com,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
stauffer@pacbell.net
is that the more
we invest in the system, the more we'll get out
that thresholds
can be bargained with if you know the right codes
and that there
will never be any consequences
never any
reactions in the opposite direction
coming straight
and narrow and where are the defenses against that?
so I want you to
lie to me. don't tell me the truth. don't fucking want
to hear it.
or just don't
tell me. what do I care? I've got porcupine skin.
every try getting
next to me. If I don't shout, you can't
see me.
and I might be
cold to your presence, but I'm not dead.
so, pick an image
from the gallery guide:
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Gallery_guide2.html
and tell me what
you really think
and if it meets
that elusive babu criteria
then maybe I'll
include it with the image
bound and
tethered to the eternal question:
WHAT IS BABU?
Douglas
oh yeah, and tell
me if you want off this list
by replying
"unsubscribe" as the subject line
IT IS A FELONY TO
REPRODUCE THIS EMAIL WITHOUT MY CONSENT
;-)
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
|
0 | The
map is
not the territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> | /\ |
=========
Return-Path:
<stratis@odyssee.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug
1997 16:31:39 +0200 (MET DST)
X-Sender:
stratis@pop.microtec.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From:
stratis@odyssee.net (Antoine Maloney)
Subject:
half-japanese sardines...
Rinaldo,
Are you a fan of the American band
Half-japanese? One passage in
your latest poem
reminded me of their song "Always". Also, partly because
Jad Fair, in the
song, mentions Dylan and Neil Young with the same kind of
line
breaks...very nice. Did you see my post about the lyrics of "Lost
inside of
Mobile...."? ...whether you were
setting a test for us?
Antoine
**************
>i think of
you often BEATs!
>
> before digital tape
> before 'puter
> before the yellow radiation suits
>
>i think of
you often...
>gregory corso
aka gregorio nunzio corso
>
>
(the bomB)
>before
> get rid of everything, funny things are
everywhere
>
> they wear radiation suits,
>
>before
pre-taped-recorded world wake up say something
> EVERYONE HAS THEIR 15 MINUTES OF FAME!
>
>& bob
dylan can changin' lyrics
>& neal
young was young 20 on Sugar Mountain,
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
--
Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
To:
stratis@odyssee.net (Antoine Maloney)
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
half-japanese sardines...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<m0x1ukV-000rcBC@gpnet.it>
References:
Antoine,
Dylan & Neal
Young was together in the cult movie "The Last Waltz",
(a farewell for
the Band),
btw#1 i like yr
posts on the Beat-List.
btw#2 i'm
appreciating alot Neal Young but seems not so maudit
to became
recognized as a "maestro".
btw#3
"memphis blues again" is a-song-a-changin' by dylan himself,
my lyric is dated
1971 (!) so i think u are perfectly right on.
btw#4 thanks to
keep seriuosly my sardines.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:32:03 -0700
>Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
>Subject: More SF Beat-L Party Pics
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Leon Tabory,
Estelle and Jerry Cimino, J. Stauffer
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon .jpg"
>
James,
i use Quick Time
Picture View (32 bit) but
im' sorry but my
'puter refuse to show me the picture.
idunno the
reason,
saluti cordiali,
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug
1997 20:57:35 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>
>Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997
08:32:03 -0700
>
>Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
>
>Subject: More SF Beat-L Party
Pics
> >To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >
> >Leon
Tabory, Estelle and Jerry Cimino, J. Stauffer
> >
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon .jpg"
> >
>
> James,
>
> i use Quick
Time Picture View (32 bit) but
> im' sorry
but my 'puter refuse to show me the picture.
>
> idunno the
reason,
>
> saluti
cordiali,
> Rinaldo.
Antoine had the
same problem. I will try again. Maybe we have
different
viewers. I am ignorant of these
things. Let me know if you
get anything.
James
To: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanks
alot... friend.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Leon,
i like yr
courtesy, i like u to take seriously my sardines.
im' just in a
difficult moment of life, my mother having
years ago a
severe heart attack, after surgical bypass she was
saved, problems
are now occuring and pain is coming but
God gave us the
Life & then life gone... i tell this 'cuz i love
yr gentle feeling
leon,
sorry for the
occurence of unknown email address i dunno what
happen in the
international internet channels, i receive regularly
the messages from
the beat-list, maybe was a temporary failure of
my provider
server or in padua where all the messages are routed before
sended to
venice-mestre node, i think...
about the SF
meeting James picture i cant' display the
image having an
error message from my 'puter, i dunno why,
ciao da
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug
1997 19:28:22 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Rinaldo, I just posted another three pictures. Let me know if they
come
through. If not I will post direct and
maybe not having the
listserv in the
middle they will work better.
James
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug
1997 19:29:40 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
This is the
original post-- Leon, Estelle and Jerry Cimino and me.
James
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 1.jpg"
Return-Path:
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks a lot... friend.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug
1997 06:59:17 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOle:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3
Good Sunday Rinaldo,
+AD4-Leon,
+AD4-i like yr
courtesy, i like u to take seriously my sardines.
+AD4-
They spoke to me.
Looked at me I should say. Made me look at them rather.
Your poem evoked
a strong response in me. As always.
+AD4-im' just in
a difficult moment of life, my mother having
+AD4-years ago a
severe heart attack, after surgical bypass she was
+AD4-saved,
problems are now occuring and pain is coming but
+AD4-God gave us
the Life +ACY- then life gone... i tell this 'cuz i love
+AD4-yr gentle
feeling leon,
Thank you
Rinaldo. I feel honored that you choose to share yor sorrow.
Hopefully the
pain eases.
+AD4-
+AD4-sorry for
the occurence of unknown email address i dunno what
+AD4-happen in
the international internet channels, i receive regularly
+AD4-the messages
from the beat-list, maybe was a temporary failure of
+AD4-my provider
server or in padua where all the messages are routed before
+AD4-sended to
venice-mestre node, i think...
In a way I feel
reassured when the computers turn up a glitch. They are not
as scary then to
this glitch prone person. Although the error is probably
human, still the
computer can't overpower the human then.
+AD4-
+AD4-about the SF
meeting James picture i cant' display the
+AD4-image having
an error message from my 'puter, i dunno why,
+AD4-
I see that you
are using Eudora light version 3.01, Mime 1.0, us-ascii
character set. I
don't know Eudora, but I know it is very good. I am at the
moment trying out
Microsoft Outlook Express (Internet Explorer 4). It seems
to do really
well. The only difference that I noticed is that my options
include mapping
us-ascii -+AD4-Universal Alphabet (UTF-7) text/plain. I don't
know if this
helps, but I am enclosing the photo that was not repeated
yesterday. Maybe
you got the ones posted yesterday ok. If not
and this one
comes through,
let me know and i can forward you the others.
+AD4-ciao da
+AD4-Rinaldo.
Ciao
leon
+AD4-.-
+AD4-
Return-Path:
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks a lot... friend.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug
1997 07:04:20 -0700
X-Unsent: 1
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOle:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3
Good Sunday
Rinaldo,
+AD4-Leon,
+AD4-i like yr
courtesy, i like u to take seriously my sardines.
+AD4-
They spoke to me.
Looked at me I should say. Made me look at them rather.
Your poem evoked
a strong response in me. As always.
+AD4-im' just in
a difficult moment of life, my mother having
+AD4-years ago a
severe heart attack, after surgical bypass she was
+AD4-saved,
problems are now occuring and pain is coming but
+AD4-God gave us
the Life +ACY- then life gone... i tell this 'cuz i love
+AD4-yr gentle
feeling leon,
Thank you
Rinaldo. I feel honored that you choose to share yor sorrow.
Hopefully the
pain eases.
+AD4-
+AD4-sorry for
the occurence of unknown email address i dunno what
+AD4-happen in
the international internet channels, i receive regularly
+AD4-the messages
from the beat-list, maybe was a temporary failure of
+AD4-my provider
server or in padua where all the messages are routed before
+AD4-sended to
venice-mestre node, i think...
In a way I feel
reassured when the computers turn up a glitch. They are not
as scary then to
this glitch prone person. Although the error is probably
human, still the
computer can't overpower the human then.
+AD4-
+AD4-about the SF
meeting James picture i cant' display the
+AD4-image having
an error message from my 'puter, i dunno why,
+AD4-
I see that you
are using Eudora light version 3.01, Mime 1.0, us-ascii
character set. I
don't know Eudora, but I know it is very good. I am at the
moment trying out
Microsoft Outlook Express (Internet Explorer 4). It seems
to do really
well. The only difference that I noticed is that my options
include mapping
us-ascii -+AD4-Universal Alphabet (UTF-7) text/plain. I don't
know if this
helps, but I am enclosing the photo that was not repeated
yesterday. Maybe
you got the ones posted yesterday ok. If not
and this one
comes through,
let me know and i can forward you the others.
+AD4-ciao da
+AD4-Rinaldo.
Ciao
leon
+AD4-.-
+AD4-
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 2.jpg"
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug
1997 17:49:50 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Pics
Rinaldo
Did the pics come
through at all? Antoine Maloney was
having the same
problem and found
that if he just looked at the files through his
browser rather
than trying to spin off a viewer they worked just fine.
James
Posted 4
different pics to the List.
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33FF9C93.6B6C@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970822220522.006ba850@pop.gpnet.it>
James,
great! great!
great!
Thanks for the
gift!
I'm happy to see
you!
grazie amici,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
>This is the
original post-- Leon, Estelle and Jerry Cimino and me.
>
>James
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 1.jpg"
>To: Leon
Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks a lot... friend.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<9708240709.aa10192@mail.cruzio.com>
References:
Leon,
now i can see...
it's nice to see
friends!
grazie e ciao da
Rinaldo.
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 2.jpg"
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug
1997 09:20:01 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> James,
>
> great!
great! great!
> Thanks for
the gift!
> I'm happy to
see you!
>
> grazie
amici, ciao da
> Rinaldo.
>
> >This is
the original post-- Leon, Estelle and Jerry Cimino and me.
> >
> >James
> >
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\leon 1.jpg"
> >
Rinaldo,
did the other
photo's come through off the list? There
should be one
labeled
"Anne", one "Glensher" and one "Lisa" . If they didn't reach
you let me know
and I will send them direct.
James
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
SF Beat-L Party Pics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3401B0B1.954@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970822220522.006ba850@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19970825132225.00698ae0@pop.gpnet.it>
James,
allright
everything!
i've all the
great picture u mentioned!
---
technical note: i
followed the Antoine's suggestion & have
setup my www
browser to display the pic format jpg & then all works
fine.
i think possible
problems with the picture seems become using dedicated
programs viewer
like Quick Time, CorelDraw, LViewPro, which
cant' recognized
the jpg format dowloaded (id est LView prompts
an error message
like "unsupported SOF marker", and other
viewers also
message error referring not enuf amount of
memory for
temporary files et similia).
---
di nuovo grazie e
ciao da
Rinaldo.
>Rinaldo,
>
>did the other
photo's come through off the list? There
should be one
>labeled
"Anne", one "Glensher" and one "Lisa" . If they didn't reach
>you let me
know and I will send them direct.
>
>James
>
Return-Path:
<junky@burroughs.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug
1997 14:05:51 -0600
To:
Waterrow@AOL.COM, gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU, mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET,
DawnDR@AOL.COM, elwellg@VOICENET.COM,
pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM,
kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU,
jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU, DIXCIN@AOL.COM,
tcoomber@CIACCESS.COM, race@MIDUSA.NET,
Ddrooy@AOL.COM,
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca,
rinaldo@GPNET.IT, howl420@JUNO.COM,
CVEditions@AOL.COM,
rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG
From: Sorted
<junky@burroughs.net>
Subject: Posts on
the burroughs.net Memorial pages.
Hello.
I'm writing to
let you know that your post(s) from early august to the
Beat-L Mailing
list regarding
the death of
William Burroughs is currently a part of the burroughs.net
memorial page.
I'd written to
the list a couple weeks ago asking permission to use these
posts, and of the
seven people
that bothered to
reply, all were in favor.
Take a look at
http://www.burroughs.net. The direct url is
http://www.burroughs.net/mempage1.html
if you have any
problems with anything regarding your post, let me know;
I'll either
change it or take it down, as per your request.
thanks,
-Zach Hoon
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug
1997 21:49:34 -0700
To:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, race@midusa.net, dkpenn@oees.com,
love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
"Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject:
Nightswimming (1997)
Cc:
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us, azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com, Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>, GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Nightswimming.html
0 0
[ ]
'''
}[--=-=-=--=-=-==-==ooooooo=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]{
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
/|\
<.> <.>
sorry I missed you at burning man, sarah,
agit8, ethan, dthau
-------------------------------------------------------------
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
Nightswimming
Automatic For The
People
REM (M. Stipe)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(To Song List)
Nightswimming
deserves a quiet night.
The photograph on
the dashboard, taken years ago,
turned around
backwards so the windshield shows.
Every streetlight
reveals the picture in reverse.
Still, it's so
much clearer.
I forgot my shirt
at the water's edge.
The moon is low
tonight.
Nightswimming
deserves a quiet night.
I'm not sure all
these people understand.
It's not like
years ago,
The fear of
getting caught,
of recklessness
and water.
They cannot see
me naked.
These things,
they go away,
replaced by
everyday.
Nightswimming,
remembering that night.
September's
coming soon.
I'm pining for
the moon.
And what if there
were two
Side by side in
orbit
Around the
fairest sun?
That bright,
tight forever drum
could not
describe nightswimming.
You, I thought I
knew you.
You I cannot
judge.
You, I thought
you knew me,
this one laughing
quietly underneath my breath.
Nightswimming.
The photograph
reflects,
every streetlight
a reminder.
Nightswimming
deserves a quiet night, deserves a quiet night.
Find The River
=-=-=-to get off
this list return "unsubscribe" as the subject
Douglas
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 07:50:28 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>,
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET,
dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com,
thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us, azulado@aol.com,
ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net, CVEditions@aol.com,
Dfroley@aol.com, double d
<dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: Re:
Nightswimming (1997)
runner wrote:
>
>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Nightswimming.html
>
>
Nightswimming
> Automatic
For The People
> REM (M.
Stipe)
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> (To Song
List)
>
>
Nightswimming deserves a quiet night.
> The
photograph on the dashboard, taken years ago,
> turned
around backwards so the windshield shows.
> Every
streetlight reveals the picture in reverse.
> Still, it's
so much clearer.
> I forgot my
shirt at the water's edge.
> The moon is
low tonight.
>
>
Nightswimming deserves a quiet night.
> I'm not sure
all these people understand.
> It's not
like years ago,
> The fear of
getting caught,
> of
recklessness and water.
> They cannot
see me naked.
> These
things, they go away,
> replaced by
everyday.
>
>
Nightswimming, remembering that night.
> September's
coming soon.
> I'm pining
for the moon.
> And what if
there were two
> Side by side
in orbit
> Around the
fairest sun?
> That bright,
tight forever drum
> could not
describe nightswimming.
>
> You, I
thought I knew you.
> You I cannot
judge.
> You, I
thought you knew me,
> this one
laughing quietly underneath my breath.
>
Nightswimming.
>
> The
photograph reflects,
> every
streetlight a reminder.
>
Nightswimming deserves a quiet night, deserves a quiet night.
>
> Find The
River
>
Listening to
R.E.M. document "Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves
me Cold"
right now. I will probably not be as
offensively active at the
keyboard today as
i just must quit procrastination on apartment pickup
and cleaning -
open house this weekend for family and whatnot.
But i will be
around the apartment most of the day and would love some
breaks and
whatnot. I'll probably check out another
video - either Snow
White and 7
Dwarfs or Lady and the Tramp i imagine if the library has
not been ravaged
by those rugrats that always move into these adult
films that they
can't possibly comprehend. I say let
them watch the
Godfather at an
early age. Then at our age ... Mary
Poppins and jump
into sidewalk
pictures -- what would it be like to jump into
Nightswimming
???? i think a fairly smooth trip probably.
Anyway, if it is
myth-related or Ulysses related write me on the group
mail (which may
be the best Joyce-L around now) otherwise if random
musings from any
or all participants ... Rod actually does muse believe
it or not ...
after getting home from work ... hilarious backchannels
... use
backchannels to overcome the huge traffic we've created in this
sandbox called
Ulysses.
over and out.
david rhaesa
salina, Kansas
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:04:09 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>, runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: Hermes
website from Rod on Ancient Egypt -- a good jumpoff point there
runner wrote:
>
> Find The
River
>
The Nile or the
Mississippi or the River Styx???
http://marlowe.wimsey.com/~rshand/streams/scripts/hermes.html
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:09:32 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>, runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: Web
grounding from the Flood - Leary and Book of Dead
runner wrote:
>
> Find The
River
>
> =-=-=-to get
off this list return "unsubscribe" as the subject
> Douglas
http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psychedelic_experience/tibetan.html
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:21:15 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
To:
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>, runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC:
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET, dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com,
agit8@hotmail.com, thau@hotwired.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
azulado@aol.com, ChrisHein@aol.com,
mbella@earthlink.net,
CVEditions@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
double d <dbldd@hotmail.com>,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Raminocs@aol.com,
Jacrosby1@aol.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com
Subject: A nice
piece on Transformation in Ulysses including Metempsychosis
runner wrote:
>
> Find The
River
>
> =-=-=-to get
off this list return "unsubscribe" as the subject
> Douglas
I think this
website does a nice job of brieflydiscussing some of the
transformatory
rhetoric in Ulysses and in our own group evolution over
the past
month. Not always pretty - but good
nonetheless.
I'll actually
stop playing and start doing my chores now
http://schottky.ucsd.edu/~paul/literature/paul_ulysses.html
dbr
Return-Path:
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 08:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: David
Schwarm <dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats.
Hi,
Thanks for the
update. I have used your list to start my
own little
spreadsheet (with
dates and famous works), please feel free to use this as
you see fit (it
is a WIN3.1 MS Excel file - let me know if you need a
different
format).
David
Schwarm Making jazz
swing in
41
Southbrook Seventeen syllables AIN'T
Irvine, CA 92604 No
square poet's job.
On Thu, 28 Aug
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> Date: Thu,
28 Aug 1997 00:01:10 +0200
> From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Beats.
>
> Donald Allen
> Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
> Paul
Blackburn
> Robin Blaser
> Bonnie
Bremser
> Ray Bremser
> Chandler
Brossard
> Charles
Bukowski
> William S.
Burroughs { 5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 }
> William S.
Burroughs Jr.
> Lucien Carr
> Paul Carroll
> Louis R
Cartwright
> Carolyn
Cassady
> Neal Cassady
{ 8 Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 }
> Andy Clausen
> Gregory
Corso
> Robert
Creeley [Black Mountain School]
> Henry Cru
> Diane
DiPrima
> John Doe
> Kirby Doyle
> Robert
Duncan [Black Mountain School]
> Bob Dylan
> William
Everson (Brother Antonus)
> Richard
Farina
> Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
> Charles
Foster
> Allen
Ginsberg { 3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 }
> John Giorno
> Brion Gysin
> William Inge
> John Cellon
Holmes
> Herbert
Huncke
> Ted Joans
> Joyce
Johnson
> Lenore
Kandel
> Bob Kaufman
> Jack Kerouac
{ 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 }
> Jan Kerouac
> Ken Kesey
> Seymour Krim
> Bob Kaufman
{ 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
> Tuli
Kupferberg
> Joanne Kyger
> Philip Lamantia
> Jay
Landesman
> Fran
Landesman
> Timothy
Leary
> Lawrence
Lipton
> Malcom Lowry
> Norman
Mailer
> Gerard
Malanga
> Edward
Marshall
> Joanna
McClure
> Michael
McClure
> Taylor Mead
> David
Meltzer
> Jack
Micheline
> Henry Miller
{ 26 Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 }
> John
Montgomery
> Harold Norse
> Frank O'Hara
> Charles
Olson [Black Mountain School]
> Peter
Orlovsky
> Kenneth
Patchen
> Stuart Z.
Perkoff
> Charles
Plymell
> Dan Propper
> Kenneth
Rexroth
> Hugh Romney
> Michael
Rumaker
> Ed Sanders
> Hubert Jr.
Selby
> Gary Snyder
> Carl Solomon
> Jack Spicer
> Hunter
Stockton Thompson
> Charles
Upton
> Janine Pommy
Vega
> Alexander
Trocchi
> Anne Waldman
> Lewis Warsh
> Alan Watts
> Lew Welch
> Philip
Whalen
> John Wieners
> William
Carlos Williams
> -*-
> Hello!,
> i'm listing
the beat generation
> (writers
& painters & performers)
> & i
begin with a list, everyone
> interested
can propose a new name.
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
> thanks,
> Rinaldo Rasa.
> 28th august
1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
> -*-
> credits to
> Richard M.
Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
> OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
> David
Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
> -*-
>
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\beats.xls"
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 13:01:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: THE
KINGFISHERS a Charles Olson's poem (Re: Beats.)
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
thanks. is this
one of his better-known poems?
On Thu, 28 Aug
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> THE KINGFISHERS by Charles Olson
>
> 1
>
> What does
not change / is the will to change
>
> He woke,
fully clothed, in his bed. He
> remembered
only one thing, the birds, how
> when he came
in, he had gone around the rooms
> and got them
back in their cage, the green one first,
> she with the
bad leg, and then the blue,
> the one they
had hoped was a male
>
> Otherwise?
Yes, Fernand, who had talked lispingly of Albert &
>
Angkor Vat.
> He had left
the party without a word. How he got up, got into his
> coat,
> I do not
know. When I saw him, he was at the door, but it did not
>
matter,
> he was
already sliding along the wall of the night, losing himself
> in some
crack of the ruins. That it should have been he who said
>
"The Kingfishers!
> who cares
> for their
feathers
> now?"
>
> His last
words had been, "The pool is slime." Suddenly everyone,
> ceasing
their talk, sat in a row around him, watched
> they did not
so much hear, or pay attention, they
> wondered,
looked at each other, smirked, but listened,
> he repeated
and repeated, could not go beyond his thought
> "The pool the kingfishers' feathers were
wealth why
> did the
export stop?"
> It was then
he left
>
> 2
>
> I thought of
the E on the stone, and of what Mao said
> la
lumiere"
> but the kingfisher
> de
l'aurore"
> but the kingfisher flew west
> est devant
nous!
> he got the color of his breast
> from the heat of the setting sun!
>
> The features
are, the feebleness of the feet (syndactylism of the 3rd
>
& 4th digit)
> the bill,
serrated, sometimes a pronunced beak, the wings
> where the
color is, short and round, the tail
>
inconspicuous.
>
> But not
these things were the factors. Not the birds.
> The legends
are
> legends.
Dead, hung up indoors, the kingfisher
> will not
indicate a favoring wind,
> or avert the
thunderbolt. Nor, by its nesting,
> still the
waters, with the new year., for seven days.
> It is true,
it does nest with the opening year, but not on the waters.
> It nests at
the end of a tunnel bored by itself in a bank. There,
> six or eight
white and translucent eggs are laid, on fishbones
> not on bare
clay, on bones thrown up in pellets by the birds.
>
> On these
rejectamenta
> (as they
accumulate they form a cup-shaped structure) the young
>
are born.
> And, as they
are fed and grow, this nest of excrement and decayed
> fish becomes
> a
dripping, fetid mass
> Mao
concluded:
> nous devons
> nous lever
> et agir!
>
> 3
>
> When the
attentions change / the jungle
> leaps in
> even the stones are split
> they
rive
>
> Or,
> enter
> that other
conqueror we more naturally recognize
> he so resembles
ourselves
> But the E
> cut so
rudely on that oldest stone
> sounded
otherwise,
> was
differently heard
>
> as, in
another time, were treasures used:
>
> (and, later,
much later, a fine ear thought
> a scarlet
coat)
>
> "of green feathers feet, beaks and eyes
> of gold
>
> "animal likewise,
> resembling snails
>
> "a large wheel, gold, with
figures of unknown four-foots,
> and worked with tufts of leaves,
weight
> 3800 ounces
>
> "last, two birds, of thread and
featherwork, the quills
> gold, the feet
> gold, the two birds perched on two
reeds
> gold, the reeds arising from two
embroidered mounds,
> one yellow, the other
> white.
> "And from each reed hung
> seven feathered tassels.
>
> In this
instance, the priests
> (in dark
cotton robes, and dirty,
> their
dishvelled hair matted with blood, and flowing wildly
> over their shoulders)
> rush in
among the people, calling on them
> to protect
their gods
>
> And all now
is war
> where so
lately there was peace.
> and the
sweet brotherhood, the use
> of tilled
fields.
>
>
> Not one
death but many,
> not
accumulation but change, the feed-back proves, the feed-back is
> the law
> Into the same river no man steps twice
> When fire dies air dies
> No one remains, nor is, one
>
> Around an
appearance, one common model, we grow up
> many. Else
how is it,
> if we remain
the same,
> we take
pleasure now
> in what we
did not take pleasure before? love
> contrary
objects? admire and/for find fault? use
> other words,
feel another passions, have
> nor figure,
appearance, disposition, tissue
> the same?
> To be in different states without a
change
> is not a possibility
> We can be
precise. The factors are
> in the
animal and/or the machine the factors are
>
communication and/or control, both involve
> the message.
And what is the message? The message is
> a discrete
or continuous sequence of measurable events distributed
>
in time
>
> is the birth
of air, is
> the birth of
water, is
> a state
between
> the origin
and
> the end,
between
> birth and
the beginning of
> another
fetid nest
>
> is change,
presents
> no more than
itself
>
> And the too
strong grasping of it,
> when it is
pressed together and condensed,
> loses it
>
> This very
thing you are
>
>
> II
>
> They buried their dead in a sitting
posture
> serpent cane razor
ray of the sun
>
> And she sprinkled water on the head of
the child, crying
> "Cioa-coatl! Cioa-coatl!"
> with her face to the west
>
> Where the bones are found, in each
personal heap
> with what each enjoyed, there is
always
> the Mongolian louse
> The light is
in the east. Yes. And we must rise, act. Yet
> in the west,
despite the apparent darkness (the whiteness
> which covers
all), if you look, if you can bear, if you can, long enough
>
> as long as it was necessary for him,
my guide
> to look into the yellow of the longest-lasting
rose
>
> so you must,
and, in that whiteness, into that face, with what candor,
>
look
>
> and,
considering the dryness of the place
> the long absence of an adequate race
>
> (of the two who first came, each a
conquistador, one healed,
>
the other
> tore the eastern idols down, toppled
> the temple walls, which, says the
excuser
> were black from human gore)
>
> hear
> hear, where
the dry blood talks
> where the old appetite walks
>
>
la piu' saporita et migliore
> che si possa
truovar al mondo
>
> where it
hides, look
> in the eye
how it runs
> in the flesh
/ chalk
>
> but under
these petals
> in the
emptiness
> regard the
light, contemplate
> the flower
>
> whence it
arose
>
> with what violence benevolence is
bought
> what cost in gesture justice brings
> what wrongs domestic rights involve
> what stalks
> this silence
>
> what pudor pejorocracy affronts
> how awe, night-rest and neighborhood
can rot
> what breeds where dirtiness is law
> what crawls
> below
>
> III
>
> I am no
Greek, hath not th'advantage.
> And of
course, no Roman:
> he can take
no risk that matters,
> the risk of
beauty least of all.
>
> But I have
my kin, if for no other reason than
> (as he said,
next of kin) I commit myself, and,
> given my
freedom, I'd be a cad
> if I didn't.
Which is most true.
>
> It works out
this way, despite the disadvantage.
> i offer, in
explanation, a quote:
> si j'ai du
gout, ce n'est gueres
> que pour la
terre et les pierres
> Despite the
discrepancy (an ocean courage age)
> this is also
true: if I have any taste
> it is only
because I have interested myself
> in what was
slain in the sun
>
> I pose you your question:
> shall you uncover
honey / where maggots are?
>
> I hunt among stones
>
>
>
>
=========================================
> Michael
Stutz wrote:
> >On Thu,
28 Aug 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> >
> >>
Charles Olson [Black Mountain School]
> >
> >I confess,
I never understood his poetry. I don't know how to read it.
> >
> >
>
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael
Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and
as long
as this sentence remains; it comes with
absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:05:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Thursday Morning.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
look at the pony!
rinaldo: so happy
to get this today. i have been thinking of ginsberg's
poem 'supermarket
in california' i believe, and felt his presence when i
had to go to
store with waning store of monies: i wanted to shout: poems
for pears, poems
for peaches, poems for the life of us all. but instead i
bought what i
could afford and left.
i think i've
shoeveled thru the shit and no pony there.
but then, here
you come, with your wonder and all.
thanks
marie
(mc to most)
> teardrops
> misting my eyes
> look
at the pony!
>
> in the morning
> i will bring you
> to the circus
>
> look at the pony!
>
> but early in the dawn the circus has
gone
> white grass on the meadows
> & tiny fog
>
>you haven't
teardrops
> happy childhood next year the circus
will be here
>
> our limits
> are only
> technical matter
> BUT
> into
> this supermarket aisle
> i feel
> suddenly old.
>
>
>Rinaldo.
>28th aug
1997.
To: David Schwarm
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats
Database (Re: Beats.)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970828082125.25110A-101000@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828000110.006a0708@pop.gpnet.it>
David,
i got yr
database, well done!,
it's a great idea
to create a beatS database you
are doing, i ask
you the permission to share yr post &
the xls file
forwarding to the Beat-L mailing list, please
tell me the
answer,
im' updating as
possible the index,
saluti cordiali
da
Rinaldo.
29th aug 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
============ YOUR
MESSAGE ===================
At 08.22 28/08/97
-0700, David Schwarm wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Thanks for
the update. I have used your list to
start my own little
>spreadsheet
(with dates and famous works), please feel free to use this as
>you see fit
(it is a WIN3.1 MS Excel file - let me know if you need a
>different
format).
>
>David
Schwarm Making jazz
swing in
>41
Southbrook Seventeen
syllables AIN'T
>Irvine,
CA 92604 No
square poet's job.
>
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\beats.xls"
>
=========================================================
To: Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Charles
Olson's Books.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.970828130104.21436O-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828142912.00688ef4@pop.gpnet.it>
Michael
glad u appreciate
the poem. regarding further information
'bout Charles
Olson, there's two books:
"The New
American Poetry" by Donald Allen, Grove Press, New York.
(inside there's
"The Kingfishers").
"The Maximus
Poems" by Charles Olson, Jargon/Corinth Books, New York.
i hope this help,
saluti cordiali
da
Rinaldo.
=====================
yr message ==============
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>thanks. is
this one of his better-known poems?
>
>On Thu, 28
Aug 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> THE KINGFISHERS by Charles Olson
===================================================To:
country@SOVER.NET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: friday
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901b02b6d48eefe@[206.25.67.118]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828224552.00686820@pop.gpnet.it>
Marie,
good day, i
myself also often when i'm in a supermarket
i get memories
& very often i must stop the tearsdrops...
& i forget to
buy something...
at the moment in
the life... my mother, who years ago
suffered a severe
heart attack & bypasses saved his
life, now slowly
the pains are coming back, and life
slowly gone... i
fear for...
marie, angel, i
send u a message from the john cage mailing list
when the post was
in my mailbox immediately i think of
u, bouncing
because months ago u think of me regard a
similar visual
email,
i hope u are in
health & ciao da
Rinaldo.
===========================================
From:
JCage433@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 12:45:56 -0400 (EDT)
To:
silence@bga.com
Subject: Hi
everyone!
Sender:
owner-silence@lists.realtime.net
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyo n e
!
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi every o n
e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi ever y o
n e !
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi eve r y
o n e
!
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi ev e r
y o n
e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi e v e
r y o
n e !
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
H i e
v e r
y o n
e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e !
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o
n e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e !
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!!
Hi everyone!!!
Hi everyone!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!
Hi everyone!!!
Hi everyone!!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
Hi
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi
H
Hi
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v e ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v
e ryone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y o ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y
o n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e
!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e r
y o n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o ne!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e ryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug
1997 09:57:11 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
friday
rinaldo, i love
you so much!
i so needed a
smile a laugh and longdistance hug!
love
marie
ps i get
confused, are you on the boho list too? if not, i have a poem for you.
happy frieday my
gentle friend
Return-Path:
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug
1997 07:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: David
Schwarm <dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
cc: David Schwarm
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu>
Subject: Re:
Beats Database (Re: Beats.)
Hi Rinaldo,
> i got yr
database, well done!,
Thanks.
> it's a great
idea to create a beatS database you
> are doing, i
ask you the permission to share yr post &
> the xls file
forwarding to the Beat-L mailing list, please
> tell me the
answer,
Of course, feel
free to distribute as you see fit.
> im' updating
as possible the index,
'Index'?
I have thought
about using this list to create links to more extensive
bibliographic
information (including aliases used in literature 'Dean =
Neal'). But as it currently stands (as a simple 'name
index'), I am not
sure what you are
indexing? Are you adding more titles?
Fill me in ...
Let me know if
you are you adding more names, please...
We should also
cc: Levi Asher (brooklyn@netcom.com, of Literary Kicks
fame) for
inclusion on his web site.
David
Schwarm Making jazz
swing in
41
Southbrook Seventeen
syllables AIN'T
Irvine, CA 92604 No
square poet's job.
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug
1997 12:15:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Charles Olson's Books.
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
On Fri, 29 Aug
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> "The
New American Poetry" by Donald Allen, Grove Press, New York.
> (inside
there's "The Kingfishers").
>
> "The
Maximus Poems" by Charles Olson, Jargon/Corinth Books, New York.
thanks again. do
these offer criticism of the poems as well? i'm afraid i
don't understand them,
i don't understand how to read them still.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: friday
becomes saturday
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900b02c4c9064b4@[206.25.67.101]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970829134655.00688e9c@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901b02b6d48eefe@[206.25.67.118]>
<3.0.1.32.19970828224552.00686820@pop.gpnet.it>
Marie,
i'll be happy to
read your poem.
'cuz i'm gypsing
around
the boho list, at
the moment im' unsub & of course
i havent' read yr
poem, now im' waiting...
good saturday
& cari saluti da Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<mrice@centuryinter.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug
1997 19:43:51 -0400
X-Sender:
cen00746@mail.wi.centuryinter.net
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@centuryinter.net>
Subject: William
Inge
I love this guy's
plays, at least Picnic, but he's
a sad homosexual
from St. Louis, a newspaper critic
who idolized
Tenessee Williams, and wanted to follow
in his
footsteps. Tell me how he was ever a
beat.
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug
1997 07:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
friday becomes saturday
here it is
rinaldo. it is an angry poem, but it is angry-making to be hurt
so bad.
lots of love to
you
gentle
man,
yr
marie
PSYCHIATRIC
BEAUROCRATIC RANT
RANT against the
psychobureacrats who see only bottom lines and never the
people on the
bottom!
RANT against those
who measure out years not by coffee spoons but rather by
counting beans!
by insurance
schemes and the gove't campain to
ignore
ALL who stand in abject self
affacement, begging for help!
RANT for those
who blame a child's agony upon the adult
survivor who tries
to make sense of a life gone terribly wrong!
RANT against the
damned patriarchal society which denies that fathers do
unspeakable wrong
to
daughters! to sons!
RANT against the
inexorable, horrible, unspeakable reenactment of abuse
through
generations
RANT against the
fathers
RANT against the
mothers
RANT against the
priests the nuns the parents the doctors, the teachers the
ones who
who
have the power to protect but instead look the other way!
RANT against
mothers who collude with fathers, stepdads and "uncles"!!
RANT against the ongoing ever pervaasive billboard
advertisements of teen
sexuality!
RANT against the
madefortv movies which exploit the pain of others just to
make a buck!
the evangelists!
the pope!
the courts!
the good ole boy networks!
although
(abuse is a equal gender employer, i've
discovered)
RANT RANT RANT
RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT AND ,
RANT!!!
i am RANTING and i will not stop. i
will not allow my fate to be
one of SELF
DESTRUCTION , SELF EFFACEMENT AND INVISIBLITY
i will not shut
up, EVER!
I ASK ONLY
WHEN IS ANYONE
ELSE GOING TO HEAR?????
when will the
'good citizens' drop the curtains from their eyes and
acknowledge
that monsters DO
exist?
WHEN WILL ENOUGH BE ENOUGH????????
when will
"they" be brought to justice?
some speculate
that this will not happen
until hell freezes over
which, according
to most, is on its way.
8/26/97
To: Mike Rice
<mrice@centuryinter.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
William Inge
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970829183823.1a373a58@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
References:
Hello Mike,
i agree with u,
William Inge looks like Tennessee Williams.
BUT William Inge
introduced the _hyperprotective_ character
of the
"Mom" that seems to yield gay sons & match the
origin &
development of some beat life...
thanks for yr
comment,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
ps. please, have
i the permission to include yr name & message
in the credits
for the Beats database?
===================
your message ===================
Mike Rice wrote:
>I love this
guy's plays, at least Picnic, but he's
>a sad
homosexual from St. Louis, a newspaper critic
>who idolized
Tenessee Williams, and wanted to follow
>in his
footsteps. Tell me how he was ever a
beat.
>
>Mike Rice
=====================================================Return-Path:
<mrice@centuryinter.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug
1997 17:03:46 -0400
X-Sender:
cen00746@mail.wi.centuryinter.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Mike Rice
<mrice@centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re:
William Inge
At 02:22 PM
8/30/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello Mike,
>i agree with
u, William Inge looks like Tennessee Williams.
>
>BUT William
Inge introduced the _hyperprotective_ character
>of the
"Mom" that seems to yield gay sons & match the
>origin &
development of some beat life...
>
>thanks for yr
comment,
>saluti,
>Rinaldo.
>ps. please,
have i the permission to include yr name & message
>in the
credits for the Beats database?
>
>===================
your message ===================
>Mike Rice
wrote:
>>I love
this guy's plays, at least Picnic, but he's
>>a sad
homosexual from St. Louis, a newspaper critic
>>who
idolized Tenessee Williams, and wanted to follow
>>in his
footsteps. Tell me how he was ever a
beat.
>>
>>Mike Rice
>=====================================================
>
>
You have my
permission to use whatever you want from
my note.
BUT William Inge
introduced the _hyperprotective_ character
of the
"Mom" that seems to yield gay sons & match the
origin &
development of some beat life...
The above is very
interesting, so why don't you discuss it with
the rest of
us. It appears to be a pet theory of
your own,
sounds
fascinating. It also implies that many
beat characters
and their authors
are at least, latently, homosexual. Lets
have the discussion
on the Beat List,
shall we?
Mike Rice
Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug
1997 00:12:59 -0400
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
To: Arthur
Nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: My shot
across the list bow
Rinaldo, James
and Arthur,
Since I fired my
shot across the list bow, I wanted to make sure you
guys knew it was
not aimed at you. I have enjoyed the
posts by you
about books to
movies. I am just tired of seeing Sean
Penn vs Nicholas
Cage posts about
a movie we can have no control over. The
analysis of
the movies from
books has been excellent. Maybe I am
just mad at my
kids are
something.
Now, if we could cast
Senn Penn as Sal and get him together with Madonna
and cast Madonna
as Dean, then we might have something to post about.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: yr PBR
poem & an italian translation too...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020906b02d75100e8c@[206.25.67.124]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970830002032.0070bd9c@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020900b02c4c9064b4@[206.25.67.101]>
<3.0.1.32.19970829134655.00688e9c@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901b02b6d48eefe@[206.25.67.118]>
<3.0.1.32.19970828224552.00686820@pop.gpnet.it>
Marie,
i've read yr poem
apocalyptic blues, it's good!,
may i be yr first
italian translator? let me know.
here my italian
translation of yr poem...
ciao da
Rinaldo.
====================================================
LAMENTO
PSICHIATRICO-BUROCRATICO di Marie Countryman
ALZO LA VOCE
contro gli psicoburocrati che vedono solo i fogli
[del bilancio ma non la
gente
[che affonda!
ALZO LA VOCE
contro quelli che passano gli anni a contare gli
[spiccioli invece dei
caffe' consumati
accanto a polizze
d'assicurazione
e compagne
governative inascoltate
TUTTO cio' che e' miseria ti lo aiuti con
l'elemosina!
ALZO LA MIA VOCE
per quelli incolpati dell'agonia dei figli
[adulti sopravissuti
cercano
[essi stessi di dare un
senso
[ad una vita andata
[terribilmente
sbagliata!
ALZO LA VOCE
contro la dannata societa' patriarcale
[che nasconde
indicibili
[sbagli a
figlie! e figli!
ALZO LA MIA VOCE
contro l'inesorabile orribile abuso durato
generazioni
ALZO LA VOCE
contro i padri
ALZO LA VOCE
contro le madri
ALZO LA VOCE i
preti e le suore i genitori e i dottori,
[gli insegnanti, che
che dovrebbero proteggere e invece
guardano
[dall'altra parte
ALZO LA VOCE
contro le madri che fanno combriccola
[con padri, padrini e
"zii"!!
ALZO LA VOCE
contro gli annunci pubblicitari
[pieni di giovanile
sessualita'!
ALZO LA VOCE
contro i film che usano il dolore per
[fare quattrini!
gli evangelisti!
il papa!
la corte!
i bravi ragazzi dei network!
benche'
(l'abuso non abbia sesso, ho scoperto)
ALZO LA VOCE ALZO
LA VOCE ALZO LA VOCE ALZO LA VOCE ALZO LA VOCE
[ALZO LA VOCE ALZO LA VOCE ALZO LA VOCE
ALZO LA VOCE
[ALZO LA VOCE, E
ALZO LA VOCE!!!
IO ALZO LA MIA
VOCE finche' non mi arresteranno. Non permettero'
[al mio destino di AUTODISTRUGGERMI E
RENDERMI
[INVISIBILE
non staro' zitta,
MAI!
DOMANDO SOLO
QUALCUNO CI SARA'
AD ASCOLTARMI!!!!!
quando i 'bravi
cittadini' alzeranno le tendine degli occhi e
[riconosceranno che
i mostri
ESISTONO?
QUANDO SARA'
ABBASTANZA????????
quando a
"loro" sara' resa giustizia?
qualcuno che
succedera' quando all'inferno nevichera'
ma, per molti,
siamo gia' sulla buona strada.
26 agosto 1997
==============================
Marie wrote:
>PSYCHIATRIC
BEAUROCRATIC RANT
>
>RANT against
the psychobureacrats who see only bottom lines and never the
>people on the
bottom!
>RANT against
those who measure out years not by coffee spoons but rather by
> counting beans!
>by insurance
schemes and the gove't campain to
>ignore
> ALL who stand in abject self
affacement, begging for help!
>RANT for
those who blame a child's agony upon the
adult survivor who tries
> to make sense of a life gone terribly wrong!
>RANT against
the damned patriarchal society which denies that fathers do
>unspeakable
wrong to
> daughters! to sons!
>RANT against
the inexorable, horrible, unspeakable reenactment of abuse
>through
> generations
>RANT against
the fathers
>RANT against
the mothers
>RANT against
the priests the nuns the parents the doctors, the teachers the
>ones who
> who
have the power to protect but instead look the other way!
>
>RANT against
mothers who collude with fathers, stepdads and "uncles"!!
>RANT
against the ongoing ever pervaasive
billboard advertisements of teen
>sexuality!
>RANT against
the madefortv movies which exploit the pain of others just to
>make a buck!
> the evangelists!
> the pope!
> the courts!
> the good ole boy networks!
> although
> (abuse is a equal gender employer, i've
discovered)
>RANT RANT
RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT AND ,
>RANT!!!
> i am RANTING and i will not stop. i
will not allow my fate to be
>one of SELF
DESTRUCTION , SELF EFFACEMENT AND INVISIBLITY
>
>i will not
shut up, EVER!
>
> I ASK ONLY
>WHEN IS
ANYONE ELSE GOING TO HEAR?????
>
>when will the
'good citizens' drop the curtains from their eyes and
>acknowledge
>that monsters
DO exist?
>
> WHEN WILL ENOUGH BE ENOUGH????????
>when will
"they" be brought to justice?
>some
speculate that this will not happen
> until hell
freezes over
>
>which,
according to most, is on its way.
>8/26/97
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug
1997 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marioka7@aol.com
To:
babu@electriciti.com, race@midusa.net, bocelts@scsn.net,
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca,
letabor@cruzio.com, CVEditions@aol.com,
Tread37@aol.com,
MATT.HANNAN@otc.usoc.cchub.com, SSASN@aol.com,
jgrant@bookzen.com, kenster@mit.edu,
love_singing@msn.com,
rinaldo@gpnet.it, stauffer@pacbell.net,
cosmicat@erols.com,
carl@world.std.com
Subject: hey
hey i'm back after a long absence of 1 month. Missed you guys. i heard
about Burroughs
from the owner of the largest moustache in the world, over a
smoky late-night
game of cards in a sleepy southern French town. Am still
heartbroken. will write more later.
--------------maya
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: hey
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970831110404_757744697@emout05.mail.aol.com>
References:
ciao maya,
i'm here. how to
subscribe again to to beat-l?
saluti,
rinaldo.Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug
1997 11:41:50 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re: hey
i don't know how
tooo subscribe to Beat-l. I forgot! oh well, nevermind.
----maya
Return-Path:
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
Reply-To:
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
From: "Greg
Christy" <christyg@pcpartner.net>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Two
Comments & Beats:The List updated 31 aug 1997.
Date: Sun, 31 Aug
1997 18:33:38 -0000
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Rinaldo, i do
want to thank you for opening this discussion.
----------
> From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Two
Comments & Beats:The List updated 31 aug 1997.
> Date:
Sunday, August 31, 1997 3:00 PM
>
> Donald Allen
> ---
> Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
> ---
> Wallace
Berman
> ---
> Paul
Blackburn [Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Robin Blaser
> ---
> Richard
Brautigan
> ---
> Bonnie
Bremser
> ---
> Ray Bremser
> ---
> Chandler
Brossard
> ---
> Lenny Bruce
> ---
> Lord Buckley
> ---
> Charles
Bukowski {16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski"
> ---
> William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
> Frank
Carmody,
> Will
Dennison,
> Old Bull
Lee"
>
> ---
> William S.
Burroughs Jr.
> ---
> John
Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black
Mountain School]
> ---
> Caleb Carr
> ---
> Lucien Carr
"Damion"
> ---
> Paul Carroll
> ---
> Louis R
Cartwright
> ---
> Carolyn
Cassady "Camille"
> ---
> Neal Cassady
{8 Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty"
> ---
> Tom Clark
[Paris Review]
> ---
> Andy Clausen
> ---
> Leonard
Cohen
> ---
> Bruce Conner
> ---
> Gregory
Corso "Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric"
> ---
> Robert
Creeley [Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
> ---
> Jay deFeo
> ---
> Diane
DiPrima
> ---
> John Doe
> ---
> Kirby Doyle
> ---
> Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Robert
Duncan [Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Bob Dylan
> ---
> Kenward
Elmslie [Z]
> ---
> William
Everson (Brother Antoninus)
> ---
> Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
> ---
> Richard
Farina
> ---
> Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
> "Lorenzo
Monsanto,
> Larry O'Hara
> Danny
Richman"
> ---
> Charles
Foster
> ---
> Robert Frank
> ---
> James
Gauerholz
> ---
> Allen
Ginsberg {3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
> Alvah Goldbook,
Leon Levinsky
> Carlo
Marx"
> ---
> John Giorno
> ---
> Paul Goodman
> ---
> Morris
Graves
> ---
> Brion Gysin
> ---
> Dave
Hazelwood
> ---
> William Inge
> ---
> Wally
Hedrick [Gallery Six]
> ---
> John Clellon
Holmes
> ---
> Herbert
Huncke
> ---
> Ted Joans
[Jazz Poetry]
> ---
> Joyce
Johnson
> ---
> Lenore
Kandel
> ---
> Bob Kaufman
{ 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
> ---
> Robert Kelly
> ---
> Jack Kerouac
{ 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
> Leo Percepied,
Ray Smith,
> Jack, Peter
Martin,
> Sal
Paradise"
> ---
> Jan Kerouac
> ---
> Ken Kesey
> ---
> Franz Kline
> ---
> Seymour Krim
> ---
> Paul
Krassner [Realist]
> ---
> Art Kunkin
[Freep]
> ---
> Tuli
Kupferberg [Birth]
> ---
> Joanne Kyger
> ---
> Philip
Lamantia
> ---
> Jay
Landesman
> ---
> Fran
Landesman
> ---
> James
Laughlin
> ---
> Denise
Levertov [Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Timothy
Leary
> ---
> Lawrence
Lipton [The Holy Barbarians]
> ---
> Ron
Loewinsohn
> ---
> Malcom Lowry
> ---
> Bill
MacNeill
> ---
> Norman Mailer
> ---
> Gerard
Malanga
> ---
> Edward
Marshall
> ---
> Peter Martin
> ---
> Lewis
McAdams
> ---
> Joanna
McClure
> ---
> Michael
McClure
> ---
> Taylor Mead
> ---
> David
Meltzer
> ---
> Jack
Micheline
> ---
> Henry Miller
{ 26 Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 }
> ---
> John
Montgomery
> ---
> Shigeyoshi
(Shig) Murao
> ---
> Harold Norse
> ---
> Frank O'Hara
> ---
> David Ohle
> ---
> Charles
Olson {27 dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Peter
Orlovsky
> ---
> Kenneth
Patchen
> ---
> Thomas
Parkinson
> ---
> Nancy Peters
> ---
> Stuart Z.
Perkoff
> ---
> Charles
Plymell
> ---
> Dan Propper
> ---
> Kenneth
Rexroth {22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
> ---
> Theodore
Roethke
> ---
> Hugh Romney
> ---
> Michael
Rumaker
> ---
> Ed Sanders
> ---
> Mark Schorer
> ---
> Hubert Jr.
Selby
> ---
> Gary Snyder
> ---
> Carl Solomon
> ---
> Jack Spicer
> ---
> Hunter
Stockton Thompson
> ---
> Charles
Upton
> ---
> Janine Pommy
Vega
> ---
> Mark Tobey
> ---
> Alexander
Trocchi
> ---
> Anne Waldman
[St. Mark's Poetry Project, New York]
> ---
> Lewis Warsh
> ---
> Alan W.
Watts "Arthur Whane, Alex Aums"
> ---
> Lew Welch
> ---
> Philip
Whalen
> ---
> John Wieners
[Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Jonathan
Williams
> ---
> William
Carlos Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963}
> ---
> Ruth
Witt-Diamant [San Francisco's Poetry Center]
> -*-
>
> Hello!,
> i'm listing
the beat generation
> (writers
& painters & performers)
> & i
begin with a list, everyone
> interested
can propose a new name.
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
> thanks,
> Rinaldo
Rasa.
> 31th august
1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
>
> -*-
> the list of
credits & comments:
>
> Walter
Campbell <walter.campbell@usa.net>
> Greg Christy
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
> Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
> Timothy K.
Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
> Richard M.
Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
> OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
> Mike Rice <mrice@centuryinter.net>
> David
Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
> James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
> Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
> -*-
> Addenda
comments:
> 1. Subject:
Re: William Inge ==========================
> At 17.03
30/08/97 -0400,
> Mike Rice
<mrice@centuryinter.net>wrote:
> >At 02:22
PM 8/30/97 +0200, you wrote:
>
>>Hello Mike,
> >>i
agree with u, William Inge looks like Tennessee Williams.
> >>
> >>BUT
William Inge introduced the _hyperprotective_ character
> >>of
the "Mom" that seems to yield gay sons & match the
>
>>origin & development of some beat life...
> >>
>
>>thanks for yr comment,
>
>>saluti,
>
>>Rinaldo.
> >>ps.
please, have i the permission to include yr name & message
> >>in
the credits for the Beats database?
> >>
>
>>=================== your message ===================
> >>Mike
Rice wrote:
>
>>>I love this guy's plays, at least Picnic, but he's
>
>>>a sad homosexual from St. Louis, a newspaper critic
>
>>>who idolized Tenessee Williams, and wanted to follow
>
>>>in his footsteps. Tell me
how he was ever a beat.
> >>>
>
>>>Mike Rice
>
>>=====================================================
> >>
> >>
> >You have
my permission to use whatever you want from
> >my note.
> >
> >BUT
William Inge introduced the _hyperprotective_ character
> >of the
"Mom" that seems to yield gay sons & match the
> >origin
& development of some beat life...
> >
> >The
above is very interesting, so why don't you discuss it with
> >the rest
of us. It appears to be a pet theory of
your own,
> >sounds
fascinating. It also implies that many
beat characters
> >and
their authors are at least, latently, homosexual. Lets have the
> discussion
> >on the
Beat List, shall we?
> >
> >Mike Rice
> >
> >
> Mike,
> i think that
i defend the presence of William Inge
> (influenced
Tennessee Williams some beat?)
> in the
Beats:The List.
> a thread
regard the "Mom" is at the moment for some
> reason for
me a painful.
> saluti
> Rinaldo.
>
====================================================
>
> 2.
> Return-Path:
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
> Reply-To:
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
> From:
"Greg Christy" <christyg@pcpartner.net>
> To:
"Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
> Subject: Re:
the beats list
> Date: Sat,
30 Aug 1997 10:04:07 -0000
>
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> ----------
> > From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rasa@gpnet.it>
> >
Newsgroups: alt.books.beatgeneration
> >
Subject: the beats list
> > Date:
Wednesday, August 27, 1997 10:08 PM
>
> >ken
kesey,i don't think so! I'm not sure he would either.
>
>
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug
1997 15:58:03 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re: yr
PBR poem & an italian translation too...
rinaldo, it is
wonderful and of course translate any of my poems that you
wish. i am truely
honored and happy that you liked it so much. it is very
close to my
heart, and threfoe brings you closer to me.
love
marie
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:52:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jym Mooney <vmooney@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have always
included Terry Southern in my personal "beat list," at the
very least as a
fellow traveler.
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep
1997 21:42:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
Couple
additions/comments for you Rinaldo--
Don McNeill was a
hippie journalist whose short career (he died young) was
chronicled in
_Moving Through Here_ [Citadel Underground, 1990].
Also what about
the scientists who influenced the Beats or were on their
same wavelength
-- are they "Beat" enough? I'm thinking here of Count
Korzybski, Oswald
Spengler, Wilhelm Reich [died in prison], and R.
Buckminster
Fuller [Black Mountain School].
> Stephen
Jesse Bernstein
This is a good
addition. It also opens the question of "who is Beat?" with
the latter-day
poets -- are Lee Ranaldo and Sonic Youth friends Beat? etc.
Return-Path:
<gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com>
X-Sender:
gleenova@iSTAR.ca
Date: Wed, 3 Sep
1997 14:40:41 -0700
To:
rinaldo@pop.gpnet.it
From:
gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com (Gary Lee-Nova)
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
Hi Rinaldo;
How about?:
Mary Beach
Claude Pelieu
Carl Weissner
Jurgen Ploog
Jan Herman
Larry Rivers
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ Gary Lee-Nova * Emily Carr Institute Of Art
& Design * Vancouver B.C. @
@ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->
gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com <-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Return-Path:
<randyr@mailhub.jaxnet.com>
Comments:
Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>
From: "randy
royal" <randyr@southeast.net>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Date: Thu, 4 Sep
1997 16:13:04 +0000
Subject: two
other beats
Reply-to:
randyr@southeast.net
Priority: normal
hey rinaldo. cool
list you have made.
i was just
wondering if you could put john jennon and jim morrison up
on your list too.
both have put out a few poetry collections and had
a respect for the
beats. morrison wanted to go "on the road" with
kerouac. jim
morrison ended his life the same way that jack did
mainly by
drinking, both became quite fat. (i know just that doesn't
make jim beat.)
don't forget the
obvious grammerical conection between the beatles
and the beats.
i just thought
maybe you could add these two guys to
your list. i know
they seem to be more hippiesh, but you do have
leary and kesey.
just a suggestion
randy.
Return-Path:
<root@venus.mmaildirect.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep
1997 15:10:31 -0400 (EDT)
X-1: This server
blocks unauthorized email relaying.
X-2: <A
HREF="httpd://www.quantcom.com"> Visit us to promote your
business.
X-3: Visit
http://www.iemmc.org for name removal information.
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
From: "Ingenious
Inventions" <root@mail-sent-x.com>
Subject: Why
didn't I think of that?
Great ideas are
often simple.
Please take a
moment to view this ingenious invention at:
http://www.mmaildirect.com/gdoney/MagnaCatch
Thanks!
Return-Path: <welch@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep
1997 17:03:08 -0500 (CDT)
From:
welch@ix.netcom.com (MW)
Subject: Re: Beat
SuperNova update 4 sep 1997 (Beats:The List)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
I thought of
another one:
Ken Nordine, word
jazz pioneer od the 50's
Rhino/Word Beat
Records, reissue 1990
The Rhino Word
Beat "The Beat Generation" Box Set features 2 of his
selections: "Reaching Ino In" and "Hunger Is From"
========
Mike Welch
welch@ix.netcom.com
http://members.tripod.com/~mwelch/index.html
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep
1997 22:59:46 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To:
love_singing@msn.com, Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
Rinaldo--
I made some notes
looking at your version posted on the web.
Will add
some notes--Use
them as you wish.
Several
things. I have put an asterisk (*) by
individuals who I feel
are clearly not
Beats but predecessors or forerunners--such as Henry
Miller. Many others would have argued strongly that
they were not Beat
(such as Jack
Spicer and Bukowski) but their time, their associates and
their kind of
work will forever link them with Beat so that's where they
should stay. I would only argue against one and that is
William Inge,
who someone else
has mentioned. At the least he needs an
asterisk or
something. I have also added some more Kerouac novel
names for
figues. For some folks I have added one of their
better known titles.
James
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> Donald Allen
--editor, poet--Grey Fox Press
> ---
> Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
> ---
> Wallace
Berman-- SF avante garde artist
> ---
> Stephen
Jesse Bernstein
> ---
> Paul
Blackburn [Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Robin
Blaser (poet, critic--associate of
Duncan, Spicer)
> ---
> Richard
Brautigan--novelist--Trout Fishing in America
> ---
> Bonnie
Bremser--wife of Ray
> ---
> Ray Bremser
> ---
> Chandler
Brossard
> ---
> Lenny
Bruce--comic
> ---
> Lord
Buckley--comic
> ---
> Charles
Bukowski {16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski"
> ---
> William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard, Frank Carmody, Will
Dennison, Old Bull Lee"
>
> ---
> William S.
Burroughs Jr.
> ---
> John
Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black
Mountain School]
> ---
> Caleb
Carr--Son of Lucien --"The Alienist
> ---
> Lucien Carr
"Damion"
> ---
> Paul Carroll
> ---
> Louis R
Cartwright--?
> ---
> Carolyn
Cassady "Camille"
> ---
> Neal Cassady
{8 Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty"
> ---
> Tom Clark
[Paris Review]
> ---
> Andy Clausen
> ---
> Leonard
Cohen--novelist "Beautiful Losers", songwriter
> ---
> Bruce
Conner--filmaker
> ---
> Gregory
Corso "Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric"
> ---
> Robert
Creeley-- poet [Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
> ---
> Jay
deFeo--San Francisco Painter--"The Rose"
> ---
> Diane
DiPrima--poetess--"Memoirs of a Beatnik"
> ---
> John Doe--?
> ---
> Kirby Doyle
> ---
> Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Robert
Duncan [Black Mountain School], SF poet,
associate, Spicer, Blazer
> ---
> Bob Dylan
> ---
> Kenward
Elmslie [Z]
> ---
> William
Everson (Brother Antoninus)-- Poet, Monk
> ---
> Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
> ---
> Richard
Farina--novelist "Been Down So Long", songwriter
> ---
> Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]Lorenzo Monsanto, Larry O'Hara, Danny Richman"
> ---
> Tom Field
--[Spicer Circle], JK's favorite painter. "Lanny Meadows", East/West
house
> ---
> Charles
Foster
> ---
> Robert
Frank--film maker
> ---
> James
Gauerholz-- Burroughs aid and heir
> ---
> Allen
Ginsberg {3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand,
Levinsky, Carlo Marx"
> ---
> John Giorno
> ---
> Paul
Goodman--psycologist, sociologist--"Growing Up Absurd"
> ---
> Morris
Graves *
> ---
> Brion Gysin-
> ---
> Dave
Hazelwood--printer of chapbooks , Auerhahn Press
> ---
> William
Inge--**
> ---
> Wally
Hedrick [Gallery Six], husband of Jay DeFeo
> ---
> John Clellon
Holmes--novelist--"Go"
> ---
> Herbert
Huncke--guru to Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs, hustler, "Guilty of
Everything"
> ---
> Ted Joans
[Jazz Poetry]
> ---
> Joyce
Johnson--wife to JK
> ---
> Lenore
Kandel--poetess. "The Love Book"
East/West house--"Ramona Schwartz"
> ---
> Bob Kaufman
{ 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
> ---
> Robert Kelly
> ---
> Jack Kerouac
{ 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
>
Leo Percepied, Ray Smith,
>
Jack, Peter Martin,
> Sal Paradise"
> ---
> Jan
Kerouac--"Baby Driver"
> ---
> Ken
Kesey--novelist, psychedelic revolutionary
> ---
> Franz
Kline--*, ab ex painter
> ---
> Seymour Krim
> ---
> Paul
Krassner-- satirist [Realist]
> ---
> Art Kunkin
[Freep]
> ---
> Tuli
Kupferberg [Birth, The Fugs]
> ---
> Joanne
Kyger--poetess, wife (briefly) G. Snyder, girlfriend, Lew Welch, East/West
house
> ---
> Philip
Lamantia--surrealist poet
> ---
> Jay
Landesman
> ---
> Fran
Landesman
> ---
> James Laughlin
> ---
> Denise
Levertov [Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Timothy
Leary--chemical revolutionary
> ---
> Lawrence
Lipton [The Holy Barbarians]
> ---
> Ron
Loewinsohn
> ---
> Philomene
Long
> ---
> Malcom
Lowry--** novelist, Under the Volcano
> ---
> Bill
MacNeill--Painter, Spicer Circle--you've got him twice
> ---
> Norman
Mailer
> ---
> Gerard
Malanga
> ---
> Edward
Marshall
> ---
> Peter Martin
> ---
> Lewis
McAdams ?
> ---
> Joanna
McClure--wife to Michael, poetess
> ---
> Michael
McClure-- poet, "Pat McLear"
> ---
> Bill
MacNeill--second appearance
> ---
> Taylor Mead
> ---
> David
Meltzer
> ---
> Jack
Micheline [SF<LA<NY poet]
> ---
> Henry Miller
--* { 26 Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 }
> ---
> John
Montgomery ?
> ---
> Shigeyoshi
(Shig) Murao--City Light Bookstore fixture
> ---
> Harold Norse
> ---
> Frank
O'Hara--poet--Hotel Wembley Poems
> ---
> David
Ohle--Burroughs circle
> ---
> Charles
Olson {27 dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Peter
Orlovsky--wife to Allan G
> ---
> Kenneth
Patchen ** "Albion Moonlight"
> ---
> Thomas
Parkinson--UC Berkeley Prof--Casebook on the Beat
> ---
> Nancy
Peters--partner with L. Ferlinghetti in City Lights, married to P. Lamantia
> ---
> Stuart Z.
Perkoff
> ---
> Charles
Plymell-- hobohemian poet, novelist
> ---
> Dan Propper
> ---
> Kenneth
Rexroth {22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
> ---San
Francisco Rennasiance, Six Gallery reading--what is his name in Kerouac?
> Frank Rios
> ---
> Theodore
Roethke--**--How is Roethke Beat?
> ---
> Hugh
Romney--Wavey Gravey
> ---
> Michael
Rumaker
> ---
> Ed Sanders
[Peace Eye Bookstore]--The Fugs
> ---
> Mark
Schorer--**-- UC Berkeley Prof--critic
> ---
> Tony
Scibella
> ---
> Hubert Jr.
Selby-- ** NY, LA Novelist
> ---
> Gary
Snyder--Poet--Reed College group
> ---
> Carl
Solomon-- "with you in Rocklin"
Terry
Souther--novelist, "Candy"
> ---
> Jack
Spicer--poet, associate of Duncan, Blazer
> ---
> Hunter
Stockton Thompson
> ---
> Charles
Upton--?
> ---
> Janine Pommy
Vega
> ---
> John Thomas
> ---
> Mark Tobey
> ---
> Alexander
Trocchi--Living Theatre
> ---
> Tom Waits--
songwriter [Foreign Affairs]
> ---
> Anne
Waldman-- Naropa Institute-- [St. Mark's Poetry Project, New York]
> ---
> Lewis Warsh
> ---
> Alan W.
Watts -- "Arthur Whane, Alex Aums"--"Beat Zen, Square Zen
> ---
> Lew
Welch--Poet, "Ring of Bone" Reed College Group, East/West House,
"Dave Wain"
> ---
> Philip
Whalen--Poet, Reed College Group--"Ben Fagan"
> ---
> John Wieners
[Black Mountain School]
> ---
> Jonathan
Williams
> ---
> William
Carlos Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963--**
> ---
> Ruth
Witt-Diamant [San Francisco's Poetry Center]
> -*-
Where are Ezra
Pound, and Lionel Trilling if we have WC
Williams, and
even William God
DAmn IngE? Mark Schorer
> Hello!,
> i'm listing
the beat generation
> (writers
& painters & performers)
> & i
begin with a list, everyone
> interested
can propose a new name.
> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
> thanks,
> Rinaldo
Rasa.
> 2th
september 1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
>
> -*-
> the list of
credits & comments:
>
> Walter
Campbell
<walter.campbell@usa.net>
> David
Christian
dckom@atlcom.net
> Greg
Christy
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
> Patricia
Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
> Timothy K.
Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
> Richard M.
Kershenbaum
<r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
> OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
> Mike
Rice
<mrice@centuryinter.net>
> David
Schwarm
<dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
> Eric
Saylor
esaylor@sprynet.com
> James
Stauffer
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
> Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
>
Tara123125
tara123125@aol.com
> -*-
> Addenda
comments:
>
1.=============================
> Return-Path:
<dckom@atlcom.net>
> From:
dckom@atlcom.net (dckom)
> To:
"Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
> Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 31 aug 1997
> Date: Sun,
31 Aug 1997 21:20:00 GMT
>
Organization: W.S.A.
> Reply-To:
dckom@atlcom.net
>
> Hi,
> By Ed
Sanders and Tuli Kumferberg you should note The Fugs.
> By Sanders,
Peace Eye Bookstore.
> Paul Goodman
was Black Mountain School, except they threw him out for being
> gay.
> Good
project, thanks for the work.
> David Christian
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Free
thought, neccessarily involving freedom of
> speech and
press, I may tersely define thus:no
> opinion a
law-no opinion a crime.
> Alexander Berkman
>
>
2.===============================
> Return-Path:
<tara123125@aol.com>
> Date: Sun,
31 Aug 1997 18:45:05 -0400
> Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
> To:
"Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
> From:
tara123125@aol.com (Tara123125)
>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Subject: Re:
BEATs list
>
SnewsLanguage: English
>
> Regarding
your request to add names to your beat list--
>
> May I
suggest the following Beat generation poets:
>
> John Thomas,
Philomene Long, Frank Rios and Tony Scibella. They can be
> found, along
with Stuart Perkoff, in John Maynard's "Venice West: The Beat
> Generation
in Southern California". Also see LA Beats Web Site-
>
HTTP://members.aol.com/labeats
>
> 3.
=====================================
> Return-Path:
<esaylor@sprynet.com>
> From:
esaylor@sprynet.com (Eric Saylor)
> To:
rasa@gpnet.it
> Subject:
beat list
> Date: Tue,
02 Sep 1997 05:42:05 GMT
>
> Please add
Stephen Jesse Bernstein. Poet, author, beat, suicide in
> 1992,
Seattle WA USA.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eric
>
>
============= end of comments ======================
To:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Da
qualche tempo leggo i suoi interventi...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709051131.MAA07536@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
At , Francesco
Dufour wrote:
>Caro Sig.
Rasa, da qualche tempo leggo i suoi interventi sulla mailing list
>BEAT-L e li
trovo molto interessanti, anche se purtroppo la mia cultura in
>materia di
letteratura beat è molto scarsa, ridotta com'è ai soli
>iper-classici
(Sulla strada, I sotterranei, Maggie Cassidy per Kerouac e
>l'immancabile
Pasto nudo di WSB).
>Mi stavo
domandando se poteva consigliarmi qualche lettura "d'insieme" di
>facile
reperibilità, per poter capire i rapporti che legano le diverse
>personalità
degli autori e le varie correnti letterarie che via via hanno
>preso forma a
partire dal dopoguerra negli USA.
>
>A presto
>Francesco
Dufour
>
>p.s. saprebbe
indicarmi dove trovare il testo completo dell'articolo su WSB
>apparso sul
Wall Street Journal
>
>
>
Buongiorno!
sono davvero imbarazzato ma non riesco a
farmi
venire in mente alcun consiglio, i libri
che da lei letti mi sembrano piu' che
sufficienti
ed adeguati (forse, se posso permettermi,
manca un ginsberg)
per quanto riguarda l'articolo del wall
street journal
le consiglio di recuperare l'archivio della
Beat-L inviando all'indirizzo
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
e nel testo il
comando
GET BEAT-L
LOG9708 BEAT-L
in questo modo le
verra' inviato l'archivio di tutti
gli interventi
del mese di agosto corrente anno e
sicuramente tra
le emails inviate trovera' quello che
desidera (mi
sembra anche il testo completo dell'articolo
da lei citato).
cordiali saluti,
Rinaldo.
* a not competent
beat *
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
Return-Path:
<amish1@cyberamish.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Sep
1997 20:42:35 GMT
X-Advertisement:
Visit http://www.iemmc.org for name removal information.
From:
amish1@cyberamish.com
To:
amish1@cyberamish.com
Subject: Talk Is
Cheap...
Dear Phone
User...
Do you know how
much it costs to make a long distance call...
AWAY FROM HOME
Using your Phone
Company's credit card or other phone card ??
Most people do
not !!!
They think that
they get the same rate away from home, as they
do at home..but
unfortunately they frequently don't.
All major long
distance companies charge you a " surcharge "
for every call
made away from home..
Ranging from 30
cents per call to 89 cents per call...
Here is what the
" Big 3 " Charge you per call:
AT&T
30 Cents
Surcharge Per Call
30 Cents Per
Minute
MCI
30 Cents
Surcharge Per Call
30 Cents Per
Minute
Sprint
30 Cents
Surcharge Per Call
35 Cents Per
Minute
NOW
How about 19
CENTS PER MINUTE
24 Hours A Day
7 Days A Week
To All 50 States
No Restrictions
No Surcharges
No Memberships
No Gimmicks
No Multi-level
Marketing
Just Savings
If You Are:
In Sales
In Business
In Marketing
A Student
Making Calls Away
from Home
You NEED this
Card !!!
Call Us Today @
(812) 949-1707
10am-10pm
Eastern
7 Days A Week !
Or
Visit Our WebSite
At:
http://www.cyberamish.com
ALSO NOW
AVAILABLE...
Residential Dial 1+ Service
9.9 Cents A
Minute !!!
ANYWHERE In
America
24 Hours A Day
Billed In 6
Second Increments (Saves 20% more)
No Restrictions
No Monthly
Service Charge
No Minimums
No Gimmicks
No Multi-level
marketing
A-N-D
800/888 Numbers
For In-Coming Calls
At 9.9 Cents Per
Minute !!!
(Same Conditions
As The Long Distance)
Call Us Today..We
Can Get Most People Started
In Just 2 days
!!!
Best
Regards..(and savings too !!)
amish1@cyberamish.com
IF YOU WISH TO BE
REMOVED FROM OUR LIST
SIMPLY REPLY TO
THIS LETTER & TYPE THE
WORD "
REMOVE ' IN THE SUBJECT SECTION...
OUR SOFTWARE WILL
DO THE REST. THANKS
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Sep
1997 16:24:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
"burroughs: skin ovr steel"
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
On Fri, 5 Sep
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> Derek A.
Beaulieu wrote:
> >
08/18/97
> >
("burroughs: skin ovr steel")
> > the voice:
> > gravel in an open
> > wound.
> > watching from aside
> > camouflaged under
> > coldsteel
suit and hat -
> > hgwell's
invisible man
> > without
the bandages
> > once the uniform of every businessman - inconspicuous in starch
> > collar
> >
> > snap
> > brim
> > professional.
> > beneath shadow
> > of fedora:
> > tight
> > & taut
> > skin
> > pulled over --
> > wrds skidding across the page in
> >
cold
> > push of
> > wetbrick muscle
> > observant nerves - feeling the tension
moving under the surface
> > skin translucent
> > (re)veal (ing)
> > the biology of the
movements.
> >
> > the familiar pungent odour
> > of
> >
cauterized
> >
words.
> >
> >
> september
into the bus stop
>
> two men
> were going
out of the cabin they are shouting
> in the cold morning:
>
> "only
50 dollars
> o
n l y
50 dollars!"
>
> "3 a.m.
>
> he wakes
up he wakes up and looks at the billfold!"
>
> LISTEN! listen dig your hole!
> music
>
> "look at the telephone book
what's
> up?"
>
> "does you have forgotten the
phone numbers?"
>
> dig your hole music
> it is punching
my head
> it is punching my h
e a d
>
> "he has
not paid a cup of coffee not even
> only he has
told me good-bye damn!"
smeared sky w/
numbers
7 digits
walking past
the laudraumat
looking for ways to keep from
distracting
numbers
numbers
delivering the
number
7 digits
in exchange for
the push
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
"burroughs: skin ovr steel"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970905162212.4428A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970905232847.00686a58@pop.gpnet.it>
Derek, good day,
i thanks you alot
to have the inspirational feeling
of the poetry/prose/jazz/stream/session,
i'm
always sad
astonished at writers/poets seem proposing
themself as
singularity.
grazie,
Rinaldo.
To:
amish1@cyberamish.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: REMOVE
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<m0x78pl-000rSyC@gpnet.it>
References:
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
SuperNova www version update 6 sep 97
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<340F9FD1.50CE@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970902142032.006db37c@pop.gpnet.it>
James,
question #1.
>> Kenneth
Rexroth {22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
>> ---San
Francisco Rennasiance, Six Gallery reading--what is his name in >>Kerouac?
name in JK: "Reinhold Cacoethes"
JK and KR were not too friends or i'm wrong?
question #2.
>Where are
Ezra Pound, and Lionel Trilling if we
have WC Williams, and
>even William
God DAmn IngE? Mark Schorer
i have updated
the beat page following at the best yr
gentle and great
suggestions
at yr commodity
have a look and if not too busy send me
a feedback 'bout,
i dunno if this page is well.
ciao da
Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep
1997 12:42:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
"burroughs: skin ovr steel"
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
rinaldo
thanks you bless
me w/ yr comments. words are too much fun to keep to
yrself if you ask
me. if they are gonna have a life they need to be shared
& passed
around and SHOUTED and whicpsered and written on walls and loved.
yr poetry really
shows that to me & i appreciate it.
thanks for the
kind words
yrs
derek
On Sat, 6 Sep
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> Derek, good
day,
>
> i thanks you
alot to have the inspirational feeling
> of the
poetry/prose/jazz/stream/session, i'm
> always sad
astonished at writers/poets seem proposing
> themself as
singularity.
>
> grazie,
> Rinaldo.
>
>
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Sep
1997 18:44:45 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Beat
SuperNova www version update 6 sep 97
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> James,
>
> question #1.
> >>
Kenneth Rexroth {22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
> >>
---San Francisco Rennasiance, Six Gallery reading--what is his name in
>
>>Kerouac?
> name in JK: "Reinhold
Cacoethes"
> JK and KR were not too friends or i'm
wrong?
Rinaldo--I think
that JK and KR were fine at first, at least through the
six gallery
reading. What apparently drove them
apart was that Rexroth
thought that Jack
was partly responsible for helping Robert Creeley have
an affair with
Mrs. Rexroth. They were never
particularly close after
that!
James
>
> question #2.
> >Where
are Ezra Pound, and Lionel Trilling if
we have WC Williams, and
> >even
William God DAmn IngE? Mark Schorer
>
> i have
updated the beat page following at the best yr
> gentle and
great suggestions
> at yr
commodity have a look and if not too busy send me
> a feedback
'bout, i dunno if this page is well.
>
> ciao da
> Rinaldo.
> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
I'll check out
the page again. This is a wonderful
thing you have done,
Rinaldo. Thanks alot.
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Sep
1997 07:16:03 -0400 (EDT)
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: it's
sunday
rinaldo i was
touched by your writing down the elton john lyrics. i cried
and cried
everytime that part of the service was telecast. he sang so
beautifully, and
'candle in the wind' lyrics changed for diana was so
tender.
i hope you have a
lovely sunday.
love
marie
To:
country@SOVER.NET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Howdy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Marie, good
sunday,
i hope u are
well,
question #1
now i'm here to
ask you the permission
to post yr good
poem 'bout the princess' death poem to the
[uk-royalty]
mailing list i'm subscribed,
(only a little
note the correct spelling is "papparazzi",
the name was from
the surname of Paparazzi a photografer
during the roman
Dolce Vita in the '60s)
question #2
as my provider
gave me free 1megaByte space on the server i've
plaining to
develop a www page devoted to beat, can i post
a Marie
Countryman's poems in the "american new poetry" section?
please, Marie,
can tell me the definition of yr poetry? for me
i remember u call
it "confessional" or i'm wrong?
btw
yr live comment
about Joyce Johnson is wonderful can insert
yr name in the
credits&comments in the beat www page?
i think of you
often,
saluti fraterni,
Rinaldo.
=============================================
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:05:29 -0400
>From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
>Subject: poem: diana's death
>
>for Diana
safe in heaven
>
>Blinded by
the tabloids
> the papparazi
> the monarchy
>blinded by my
own reverse snobbery,
>
>i was
blindsided by your death.
> only now can i drop the curtains from
my eyes
> and see the woman
> of compassion
> and courage
> you
became.
>
>blinded by my
own struggles
> blinded by my own misery
> i was blindsided by your death.
>again
experiencing
> the all too often,
> yet all too human
> misery
>of
recognizing the magnitude of what is precious
> only
after the loss.
>
>blindsided by
the tabloids garish headlines and photos,
> i did not see
> your transformation
> from uncertain girl
lost in a palace
>to the woman
of compassion
> in the soup kitchens
> shelters
> hospitals
> hospices
>
AIDS wards
>
leper colonies,
>among the
children suffering in the world.
>
>i was
blindsided by the newspaper tabloids
> at the checkout counters, the ones i
>never buy or
bring home
> but somehow cannot Not
read
>while waiting
with my carriage.
>
>diana,
> for all of this
> i am grieved
>
>blinded by
the papparazi's lurid headlines and photos
>i saw too few accounts of your compassion
>for "the
constituary of the rejected."
>
>i was
blindsided by my own grief
> for you,
>unexpectedly deep and profound.
>
>watching CNN
this morning
> i could not help but travel back in
time
>the death of
john lennon
> tim leary
> jerry garcia
> allen
ginsberg
> william
burroughs
>and ALL who
have taught me compassion,
> diana i wish you safe in heaven, having walked through
> the portal hand in hand
> with mother theresa.
>i think that
jack will be waiting there.
>
> your brother said it best:
>that you were
named for
> the goddess of the hunt
> only to become the most hunted.
>
>mc 9/6/97
>
>To:
stutz@dsl.org
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: request
information about database in HTML code
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Michael,
excuse me if i
invade yr privacy, but i'm brief
i'm developing a
the beats www page using the html code
but there is a
problem
the names of the
beats are growing and i've two list
1) in text or in
msworks database (the mode in which i started)
2) in html code
for the web
in this situation
i'm forced to manually transform
the 1) --> 2)
or viceversa & this is a pain, doubling everything!
are u knowing if
it is possibile in html code
to have a
html-database ( & after that can simply transform in
a text),
any suggestions?
thanks,
Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
To: Marie Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: it's
sunday
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020905b03800e76278@[206.25.67.107]>
References:
marie,
by syncronicity
i've just send to you a message,
of course the Elton
John's songs are for us in
europe and in the
world the feeling of 1970's when
all us were a lot
of happy, the feeling of a period
that's gone, i'm
happy u recognize such a way in
posting the
Elton's liryc,
yr
rinaldo.
============
marie wrote:
>rinaldo i was
touched by your writing down the elton john lyrics. i cried
>and cried
everytime that part of the service was telecast. he sang so
>beautifully,
and 'candle in the wind' lyrics changed for diana was so
>tender.
>i hope you
have a lovely sunday.
>love
>marie
>
>
>
>Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Sun, 7 Sep
1997 13:13:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
request information about database in HTML code
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
hi rinaldo--
> i'm
developing a the beats www page using the html code
> but there is
a problem
>
> the names of
the beats are growing and i've two list
> 1) in text
or in msworks database (the mode in which i started)
> 2) in html
code for the web
> in this
situation i'm forced to manually transform
> the 1)
--> 2) or viceversa & this is a pain, doubling everything!
>
> are u
knowing if it is possibile in html code
> to have a
html-database ( & after that can simply transform in
> a text),
okay this is what
i would do.
first forget
about any "proprietary" format, like the format used in
microsoft
programs (say for example a word document, like FILE.DOC).
proprietary is
anti-internet, it is secret, it is against humanity and
openness and *not
beat* -- so by remembering this you have won half the
battle &
everything else is easy!
okay now ascii
text is easy because any computer can read it. any computer
on the web can see
it fine. BUT if you want it to have pictures colors etc
you want html
(also an open format).
what i did was
create a program on my web server that takes an ascii text
file and
transforms it into html "on-the-fly" only when you request it.
for instance i
would keep the list text and if it is called beats.txt, say
then my program
is on my web server at http://dsl.org/cgi-bin/program/, i
can call that
program with beats.txt and it will make it look nice.
here is a
"real" example:
my novel _sunclipse_
is online at
<http://dsl.org/m/doc/lit/97/sunclipse-970602.txt>
in ascii text, just like
i wrote it. check
it out!
now look at it
here, with my program making html for it "on-the-fly":
<http://dsl.org/cgi-bin/text.pl/m/doc/lit/97/sunclipse-970602.txt>.
do you know what
kind of computer and software your web server is running?
if so maybe i can
help with a program for it.
also an easy way
out is to keep it in ascii text and on your web page make
a generic html
document something like this:
<html>
<head><title>the
beets!</title></head>
<pre>
<!--#include
file="beats.txt"-->
</pre>
</html>
what this does is
includes the text file "beats.txt" into your html document
every time
someone looks at it. the <pre> tags make it look like it does in
ascii. this is a
good technique also.
in any event, i
think it's best to maintain the list in ascii text so you
can use it and
modify it on any computer, and then insert it into html using
one of these
different ways. or if worst comes to worst, just put the text
file itself on
your web server and make an html page with a link to that
file. no colors
or whatever, but the important thing is the information is
there.
i hope this info
was useful; ask me if any of it didn't make sense.
m
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael
Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and
as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Sep
1997 13:55:15 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
Howdy.
very good sunday
to you my dear rinaldo!
the answers are
yes yes yes yes and yes.
i call my poetry
autobiographical rather than confessional.
i am so pleased
and honored
you made me very
happy this sunday
love as always
marie
To:
pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: NO
OJ> NO DI let the crickets live pix
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Patricia, good
monday,
great!
the photo is David Ohle?
i've the
permission to start my photo gallery of the Beat SuperNova
on twe Web with
the pic you posted?
please tell me
yes!
saluti,
Rinaldo.
=============================================
>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:53:09 -0500
>From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
>Subject: NO OJ> NO DI let the crickets live pix
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>ohle in
Louisiana
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\p4ohlelouisiana.jpg"
>Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep
1997 14:45:30 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: pics
Rinaldo
i would be proud for you to make use of the
photos. should I send you
some more, all at
once or one at a time.
patricia
To: Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a Web
database in HTML
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.970907130341.18056E-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970907134835.00686368@pop.gpnet.it>
michael wrote:
>my novel
_sunclipse_ is online at
><http://dsl.org/m/doc/lit/97/sunclipse-970602.txt>
in ascii text, just like
>i wrote it.
check it out!
>now look at
it here, with my program making html for it "on-the-fly":
>
><http://dsl.org/cgi-bin/text.pl/m/doc/lit/97/sunclipse-970602.txt>.
>
michael,
i've done and it's ok i have seen that the
*.txt were
transformed in *.html (btw is sunclipse a
novel?
i download circa 800k as text file?) but i've
no idea
what's the reason (program) behind the
transformation.
>do you know
what kind of computer and software your web server is running?
>if so maybe i
can help with a program for it.
yes,
i've done a telnet to my provider
194.20.176.1
& i tried to logon but the permission was
denied
of course the provider tellme i can't travel
thru
the server, but i've recognized the system in
use
it is:
UNIX(r) System V Release 4.0 (home)
>also an easy
way out is to keep it in ascii text and on your web page make
>a generic
html document something like this:
>
><html>
><head><title>the
beets!</title></head>
>
><pre>
><!--#include
file="beats.txt"-->
></pre>
></html>
>
thanks for the suggestion
>i hope this
info was useful; ask me if any of it didn't make sense.
>
>m
>
>email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael
Stutz; this information is
><http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and
as long
> as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
>
WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
>
>
that's fine, but the list of beat (not a real
database)
was coded by myself as a table and used the
tags
<tr><th> and the result is for me
satisfying, it's possibile
to take a list of names and then tranform it
in a html table?
a friend of mine give me a disk with some
javascript code
but i haven't yet tried to use that code,
it's worth?
what i'm thinking is (example)
-- old list --
1) donald allen
2) amiri baraka
during the research a find a new name i.e.
steve allen, then i create a
--- new list ---
1) donald allen
2) steve allen
3) amiri baraka
this way is good to make by hand if the items
are few but increasing the list it's really a
pain to reindex the list
(at the moment i'm no idea how many beats are
stored in the text-database or html-table! i
must to count them with my brain... no too
much tech method!)
have you any suggestion?
thanks for yr support,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: pics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341455DA.615F@sunflower.com>
References:
Patricia wrote:
>Rinaldo
> i would be proud for you to make use of the
photos. should I send you
>some more,
all at once or one at a time.
>patricia
>
>
patricia,
thanks,
u make happy!
again photos!
i sometime have
for myself life & my siblings
a bit of distress
but i love the beats and if i think
myself in the
next millenium i always have a good feeling
with that '50s
& 60's & ... this YES help me.
when u are ready
to send something about the beat
take in mind u
make me very! happy!
thanks alot,
ciao da
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep
1997 16:22:43 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: The
Art Of Beat Maintenance.
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
r~
thanks a/gain
for yr poems.
yrs in flatbrush
mountain foothills
derek
On Mon, 8 Sep
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> Alan W. Watts remembered
> THE WAY OF ZEN 1957
>
> Rin Tin Tin & Zorro
> ...a numbers of years ago (i remember
the first
>
televised operas &
> old
dodge car & platters' song
> and
sunny afternoon)
>
>
> ...a numbers of years ago
> 1947 Jack Kerouac wrote
> then it was a fast walk along
a silvery,
> dusty road beneath inky trees
of California-
> a road like in The Mark of
Zorro and a road
> like all the roads you see in
Western B movies
>
>
>
> HOOT!
> hooooooooooooot!
> 1997
> by the way TODAY
> except for hair pinned head
>
> IS THAT A PROBLEM?
> sure
sure NOT just drunk...
>
> spiders! VIRTUAL REBELS!
> caffeine addicted virtual rebels
>
> IS that a problem?
>
> ok THE WEB today look LIKE MORE
> a PICASSO's painting
> IN EVERY WAY
>
> long live Zorro & Rin Tin Tin
> my old friends!
>
>
> Rinaldo.
> 9 sep 97
>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Tom
Field
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:26:59 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Tom Field show opens in San Francisco
Hi, it's Kevin
Killian. I hope all of you on this list
who live here in
San Francisco (or
anyone who plans to visit here within the next 6 weeks of
so) will get the
chance to see this wonderful show which opens tomorrow.
It's called
"Paintings from Black Mountain College and the Beat Era," it's
the first large
show of the work of the late Tom Field, who died here a
year ago, and this
is the address: 871 Fine Arts, 49 Geary Street, San
Francisco.
Tom Field was
born in 1930, went to Black Mountain College (there's a great
story in Martin
Duberman's book about the time he tried to run down Robert
Creeley in a
car), met Robert Duncan and Jess there @ 1956, and came to San
Francisco when
the College closed in 1957. In San
Francisco he joined a
host of other
"Mountaineers" including Joe Dunn, John Wieners, Basil King,
etc., etc. and
began work as a merchant mariner, shipping out and shipping
in, a sailor's
life, blah blah blah. While on land he
produced in short
order at least a
dozen large A-E type magnificent paintings and became Jack
Spicer's favorite
painter. For a while he lived in the
famous East-West
House where he met
Joanne Kyger, Lew Welch, Jack Kerouac, Lenore Kandel and
so forth (in
Kerouac's novel "Big Sur" he appears under the name "Lanny
Meadows,"
not so imaginative I suppose. One of the
paintings in this show
is a
collaboration between Field and Jack Kerouac).
Last year he died at
East West House @
65.
Robin Blaser has
written the essay that accompanies this show, which
gathers together
for the first time most of the great pictures from the
late fifties and
early sixties, drawn from a variety of private collections
(Kyger, Jess,
Fran Herndon, Ernie Edwards, etc). I
sneaked in to the
gallery last
Saturday, while the Rauschenberg show was still up, and saw
the Field
pictures leaning against the walls, not hung yet, and I was blown
away. If there's any justice this exhibition should
re-write Bay Area art
history...it's
miles better than SFMOMA's over-hyped "Abstract
Expressionists of
San Francisco" show which is running concurrently. Come
on down! Tell me what you think. The reception is tomorrow (Thursday)
between 5:30 and
7:30--California time, so you could probably show up
Saturday and the
reception would still be going on.
Thanks everyone!
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: big sur
the ending
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
WARNING: IF YOU
HAVE NOT READ KEROUAC'S _BIG SUR_ YOU
MIGHT WANT TO
SKIP READING THIS (I'M GIVING YOU THE ENDING).
DON'T WANT TO
RUIN IT FOR ANYONE!!!
Reminds me of the
last page and a half of BIG SUR, when J.D. wakes
up from his sleep
on the porch after the weeks mounting up to
his *breakdown*:
> Taken from
BIG SUR by Jack Kerouac
"When I'd
sat down they were sweeping, but now they were squatted
right behind my
back, facing each other, not a word--I turn and see
them
there--Blessed relief has come to me from just that minute--
Everything has
washed away--I'm perfectly normal again--Dave Wain
is down the road
looking at fields and flowers--I'm sitting smiling in
the sun, the
birds sing again, all's well again.
I cant understand
it.
Most of all I
cant understand the miraculousness of the silence of
the girls and the
sleeping boy and the silence of Dave Wain in the
fields--Just a
golden wash of goodness has spread over all and over
all my body and
mind--All the dark torture is a memory--I know now
I can get out of
there, we'll drive back to the City, I'll take Billie home,
I'll say goodbye
to her properly, she wont commit no suicide or do
anything wrong,
she'll forget me, her life'll go on, Ramona's life will
go on, old Dave
will manage somehow, I'll forgive them and explain
everything (as
I'm doing now)--And Cody, and George Baso, and
ravened McLear
and perfect starry Fagan, they'll all pass through
one way or the
other--I'll stay with Monsato at his home a few days
and he'll smile
and show me how to be happy awhile, we'll drink dry
wine instead of
sweet and have quiet evenings in his home--Arthur
Ma will come to
quietly draw pictures at my side--Monsato will say
"That's all
there is to it, take it easy, everything's okay, dont take
things too
serious, it's bad enough as it is without you going the deep
end over
imaginary conceptions just like you always said yourself"--
I'll get my
ticket and say goodbye on a flower day and leave all
San Francisco
behind and go back home across autumn America
and it'll all be
like it was in the beginning--Simple golden eternity
blessing
all--Nothing ever happened--Not even this--St. Carolyn by
the Sea will go
on being golden one way or the other--The little boy
will grow up and
be a great man--There'll be farewells and smiles--
My mother'll be
waiting for me glad--The corner of the yard where
Tyke is buried
will be a new and fragrant shrine making my home
more home-like
somehow--On soft Spring nights I'll stand in the
yard under the
stars--Something good will come out of all things
yet--And it will
be golden and eternal just like that--There's no need
to say another
word."
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Charles
Plymmel poems brautigan wilson
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
C. Plymell
DIALOG FOR S.
CLAY WILSON
What about the
current morals at the White house
Like What?
The reports of
selling "overnights" at the white house and the like.
You mean like
those hotel rooms you rent by the hour?
Well, not
exactly.
But there's also
the charge of feeling up that woman who worked
for him back in
Arkansas?
Happens every
time we educate a hillbilly.
REMEMBERING
RICHARD BRAUTIGAN
That's Reba,
Richard
you know, the kid
who arrived with
flowers in her hair
At the Greyhound
station
go 69'ers from
the senior class
across the land
of coffee-tonk cafes
with hard neon
illuminating bacon and eggs
grabbed her bags
from the locker
headed for the
baths at Big Sur
via the head shop
in the Haight.
Reba's name
written wildly where
cameramen cowboy
oracles ride
Reba ready
Reba right on
Reba rid of speed
Reba ready hip
Reba arriba
arriba
Reba rich girl
reading
Richard Brautigan
on the beach
Reba tough
Reba together
Reba danced with
Joan Baez
Hey that's my bag
Reba pop rock art
Reba wrote a poem
for Allen Ginsberg
Reba saw
Braughtigan naked at the end party
Reba coke collage
digs dope prick
Rode to New York
in back of a Buick
Scratch your name
on East Village brick
and let your
belly shine and
your breasts
still smell of the baths
over the
Pacific's spray of Saturn and Sun
where the air
pierced your pores with tongues
of Redwood lips
bursting with rapture
News shops hawk
reality of The Morning Sun
of faded type,
Berkeley, and bought a gun
who smashes the
windows out of time
watch the tanks
all in a line
troops on the
roof ready and aim.
(She packed her
long dresses
and threw the I
Ching,
drove over the
bridge in a limousine.)
To:
bocelts@scsn.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
[Fwd: Bob Dylan to Play for Pope]
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3414C47A.C17C4BC1@scsn.net>
References:
Bentz,
thanks for yr
gentle words concerning the nostalgia poem,
i'm proud of your
words,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
ps. regard the
following message:
=============================================
At 23.37 08/09/97
-0400, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>Is this in
Italian? Does this mean anything?
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclawPath:
>From: Joan
Ferreras <dylan@espanet.com>
>Newsgroups:
rec.music.dylan
>Subject: Re:
Bob Dylan to Play for Pope
>Date: Sat, 06
Sep 1997 14:15:45 +0200
>Organization:
Unisource Espana NEWS SERVER
>Reply-To:
dylan@espanet.com
>Xref:
Supernews69 rec.music.dylan:92691
>
>
>No me gusta
nada que Bob Dylan cante delante de tan impresentable
>personaje.
Para mí que despues de su enfermedad, está chocheando. Abur
>
the above message is't italian language but
of
spanish, portoguese or brazilian,
&
the person is telling that he heavily
disagrees
'bout that Bob Dylan plays at the
Pope JPII presence
i'm translate is on-the-fly
maybe Joan Ferreras replies in his native
speaker
supposing that an italian knows the
spanish-like language and he his right,
but, of course, i can wrong...
or misunderstandig something,
ciao.
Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
To:
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject:
sicuramente l'avrai già visto...
Date: Tue, 9 Sep
1997 10:59:46 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Caro Rinaldo,
sicuramente, l'avrai già
visto, ma nella pagina
culturale del
Corriere di oggi (ma 9 sett.97) c'è la traduzione (dal New
Yorker) del
diario degli ultimi giorni di WSB.
Salutami Venezia!
Ciao !
Francesco
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep
1997 07:33:04 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: happy
tuesday, rinaldo!
hi rinaldo. i
woke up not knowing if it is wednesday or tuesday. had to
turn the tv on
to get the date from the newscasters on
early morning
broadcasts. i
think i got it right. tuesday
two days
monday one day
tuesday two days
wednesday three
i will stop now
but first i want to wish you good tuesdays everyday and
hope that you are
well.
love
marie
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep
1997 11:15:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: a
Web database in HTML
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
rinaldo--
> michael
wrote:
> >my novel
_sunclipse_ is online at
>
><http://dsl.org/m/doc/lit/97/sunclipse-970602.txt> in ascii text,
just like
> >i wrote
it. check it out!
> >now look
at it here, with my program making html for it "on-the-fly":
> >
>
><http://dsl.org/cgi-bin/text.pl/m/doc/lit/97/sunclipse-970602.txt>.
> >
>
> michael,
> i've done and it's ok i have seen that the
*.txt were
> transformed in *.html (btw is sunclipse a
novel?
> i download circa 800k as text file?) but i've
no idea
> what's the reason (program) behind the
transformation.
ok. yes sunclispe
is a novel, but it's funny becuase there's not much
conflict in the
story, so i tend to also call it a sutra and, generically, a
"text."
but i wrote it in
a text editor so it exists as a text file, and my program
turns the text
file into html.
the program
itself is very short, and written in perl. something like it
could work for
you if your web server can run it (see below). But there may
be a better way
to do it with html list tags (see below).
> >do you
know what kind of computer and software your web server is running?
> >if so
maybe i can help with a program for it.
>
> yes,
> i've done a telnet to my provider 194.20.176.1
> & i tried to logon but the permission was
denied
> of course the provider tellme i can't travel
thru
> the server, but i've recognized the system in
use
> it is:
> UNIX(r) System V Release 4.0 (home)
good news! it's a
unix box so more than likely a perl program like mine will
work. as seen
from
http://www.netcraft.com/cgi-bin/Survey/whats?host=www.gpnet.it&port=80
i see that your
server is the apache server, which is good (it's the best
one out there).
what you'd have
to do is ask your isp if you have cgi-bin access. if so, you
also need shell
access to the server, and then put a copy of the cgi program
on the server.
of course, this
might be more work than what it's worth. i think the best
way to do it is
in pure html, like below:
> that's fine, but the list of beat (not a real
database)
> was coded by myself as a table and used the
tags
> <tr><th> and the result is for me
satisfying, it's possibile
> to take a list of names and then tranform it in
a html table?
> a friend of mine give me a disk with some
javascript code
> but i haven't yet tried to use that code, it's
worth?
dunno. i don't
know too much about javascript. but i see your problem with
having to number
them all with the <tr><th> tags.
you could do it
instead with the <ol> list command like this:
<ol>
<p><li><b>Steve Allen
<p><li><b>Allen Ginsberg
</ol>
This numbers them
automatically. Then you don't have to worry about the
numbers, because
it will create them for you. So if you find a new Beat,
then just insert
it:
<ol>
<p><li><b>Steve Allen
<p><li><b>David Amram
<p><li><b>Allen Ginsberg
</ol>
And the numbering
will appear automatically.
You can put html
tags in for each line to customize the way you want it to
look, but since
the list is pretty simple I don't think it will take much
work. To see how
I have done this, look at the discography of my FSA FAQ:
http://www.dsl.org/cgi-bin/display.pl/m/doc/mus/fsa/fsa-faq
This is just an
<ol> list and I add to it and change it all the time.
Do you use
Netscape? If so, view the source file to see the code.
You can write the
Beat file in HTML then, and whenever you want to generate
a new copy of it
as a text file, view your page in Netscape and then choose
File...Save As...
and choose "Text" as the format to save it in. That way
you don't have to
maintain two seperate lists!
regards,
m
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael
Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and
as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
To:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
sicuramente l'avrai già visto...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709091002.LAA04508@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
At 10.59 09/09/97
+0200,
"Dufour"
<dufour@ulisse.it> wrote:
>Caro Rinaldo,
> sicuramente, l'avrai già
visto, ma nella pagina
>culturale del
Corriere di oggi (ma 9 sett.97) c'è la traduzione (dal New
>Yorker) del
diario degli ultimi giorni di WSB.
>
>Salutami
Venezia!
>Ciao !
>Francesco
>
>
grazie Francesco,
ho provveduto
all'acquisto del corriere, ti
ringrazio di
cuore per l'informazione,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: happy
tuesday, marie!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020907b03aa8e8269c@[206.25.67.121]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970907141733.006f80d4@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901b0371937f30a@[206.25.67.102]> <9709060843.aa09671@mail.cruzio.com>
marie,
thanks for the
good day, now i think of a dream
(the best dream)
in all my life, it happens when
i was 7 or 8 old
boy.
the only dream i
remember as vivid as the true life,
it seems me that
is something like a fact happened
in a previous
life,
the
dream-image... was a city, an american city,
with skycrapers,
a river, and a bridge, there
was a sunny day,
at a certain time an indian
(native american)
starting at left side of the
scene comes walking...
this is the dream
that i call THE DREAM of my
life, when was
younger, i was tempted to painting
this image, but
with failure,
something
special.
i hope u are
well,
yr
Rinaldo.
To: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
Art Of Beat Maintenance.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970908162157.54328A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970908235729.00b62ac8@pop.gpnet.it>
derek wrote:
>
>r~
>thanks a/gain
>for yr poems.
>yrs in
flatbrush mountain foothills
>derek
and othis sitting
on the
dock of the bay
(1968)
rinaldo.Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep
1997 16:13:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
Art Of Beat Maintenance.
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
only my time aint
getting rolled away
but rather pulled
out from under me like
so many carpets
yrs
derek
On Tue, 9 Sep
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> derek wrote:
> >
> >r~
> >thanks
a/gain
> >for yr
poems.
> >yrs in
flatbrush mountain foothills
> >derek
>
> and othis
sitting on the
> dock of the
bay
> (1968)
>
> rinaldo.
>
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
Art Of Beat Maintenance.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970909161306.17942A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970909231324.0069b7b8@pop.gpnet.it>
& notre dame
photographed
in a sunny day
>only my time
aint getting rolled away
>but rather
pulled out from under me like
>so many
carpets
Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From: "Dufour"
<dufour@ulisse.it>
To:
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Caro
Rinaldo...
Date: Wed, 10 Sep
1997 20:21:32 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Caro Rinaldo,
complimenti per la lista
degli artisti beat; leggendola
mi è venuta in
mente una cosa: qualcuno in Beat-L mi ha scritto che sei di
Venezia, ed io
conosco una persona che ha scritto alcuni volumi di poesia
che è proprio di
Venezia.
Il poeta in questione si chiama Iacopo
Terenzio: lo conosci ?.
Se così non fosse, potrei copiarti qualche sua
poesia e fartela leggere...
secondo me ne
vale la pena, anche perchè alcune sue tematiche mi paiono
piuttosto
"beat" (letteratura che peraltro conosce).
fammi sapere...
Ciao!
Francesco
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep
1997 07:09:30 -0400 (EDT)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: wow, it
is a shit kicking list!
hi rinaldo i have
been visiting yr web page. so many wonderful and great
people/writers/thinkers
you have there.
i am awed that
you would put up my poetry there!
if you really
want to do this,
i should send you
the latest revisions of all poems.
is that ok?
and all i can say
is one shitkicking wow!
i feel blessed
love
marie
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep
1997 09:04:41 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender:
country@sover.net (Unverified)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: here are
the poems, my sweet friend
short autobiography(if
one is needed)
Autobiography
I was born and
raised myself in Connecticut.
At age 12
discovered Dylan, Kerouac, Ginsberg and lsd. Never been the same
since.
I have taught
college writing and rhetoric at state university , have
worked as AIDS outreach
worker and as a psychotherapist.
I have rarely
traveled outside of New England, but
have wandered much in
my head, which is
peopled by many. I have gone mad several times in this
lifetime and have
come back to tell strange tales.
My writing is almost
exclusively autobiographical.
I currently live
in Vermont with my two cats.
____________
Friday the 13th,
Plattsburgh, NY
Hava Java Poetry
Reading
I sit, surrounded
by men
gentle men
poet men
giving names to
the unnameable
and voice to the unspeakable,
opening themselves up,
using words as scapels.
Transcendental
alchemy
changing blood to ink-
ink filling voids with words.
I sit, suddenly
again the child i never was.
How many years
now lost?
how many fractured fine lines
hold my selves
precariously,
together?
(stifled all
these years,
fearing words would crack me open
only to find an empty shell)
tonight i sit
with these gentle men
whose poems bank the protective fire
which holds us in its ring
and the universe
cracks open
inside my soul:
it isn't just me
inside this ring
it isn't just me
inside this ring,
it isn't just me
inside this ring,
this ring of
blood and fire
the grey smoke of
the fire ring
gives birth
to metaphors stark
and shark naked facts,
as my facts
my metaphors
my grey smoke
rises and merges
with all.
the poems alchemy
begins its work,
changing blood to ink.
a girl of seven,
feet dangling off the floor,
appears in my chair,
all dressed up and no place
to grow.
right now i'm
only seven
and awake long past my bed time
staying up late with boys
inside of poets' pockets.
we speak
of hateful mothers
of hurtful fathers
alcoholism
and winnie the pooh.
no bitterness
remains.
in this charmed circle
this ring of fire
pain exchanged
transmutes itself
in this charmed circle,
this ring of fire,
the alchemy of
blood and pain.
it's bedtime now.
would you tuck me in now,
daddy?
- daddy isn't
here.
would you be my
fathers,
if only for tonight?
mc 6/20/97
_______________
6/14/97
workshop with
michael czarnecki
plattsberg, ny
etching: in
conclusion
artist: valerie
patterson
In conclusion
you are twelve years
dead,
mother
yet nightly you
rise from your grave
every night,
mother
your face invades
my dreams
wrinkled,
corroded
by years of disappointment
for which you
have always blamed me
there are no
laugh lines
hidden in the creases
of your face
toothless old
crone,
i still fear your bite
in conclusion,
mother
each morning as i rise from my grave
you return to
yours
marie countryman
@mc
____________________
INTOXICATION
(for michael and
craig)
clouds burst
and rain down
on poets
wandering in
street
searching for
poetical drink.
suddenly
drenched!
clouds burst!
we laugh and turn
faces up,
mouths open
to drink in the
sky--
leap-frogging
puddles,
laughing
tumbling
shouting
splashing!
until, many
blocks later
we pour ourselves into the car,
ending
the best
poetical
drunk
by far.
____________________
on not writing
i have not been
writing
i have been
painting
i have not thought
of words,
but rather of
colors, shapes,
blending, edging,
worlds building
on the page
is it sleep
is it dreaming
who is doing the
painting?
landscapes of the
mind
appear regularly
as if
plucked out of
thin air.
no memory
beyond the intent to paint
dreams of eternal
landscape
building word less poems
not asleep
nor waking.
___________________
>pear tree
>
>as a child i
climbed
>to safety,
embraced
>by the old
pear tree,
>sitting in
its gnarley
>branches,
>writing pomes
>and secret
thoughts,
>eating sweet
pears,
>their juice
>running down
my sticky
>fingers,
>staining the
pages
>already
wrinkly and wet
>by silent
tears.
>
>during
hurrican'
>season,
>late august,
early septenmber
>when storms
threatend,
>the tree
stood laden with fruit
>over-ripe
fruit,
>and we rushed
about to
>save the
pears, dodging
>yellow
jackets
>drawn to
there sweetness,
>the over-ripe
fruit
>smashed in
ground
>splatterd on
asphalt,
>eating as we
picked and packed
>baskets of
pears
>
>neighbors
rushed to help
>returning
home
>with pears
pears pears
>and
>more pears.
>
>no other
fruit
>has ever been
sweeter
>than the
pears
>of my writing
tree.
>mc (sunday,
april 13,)
>
________________
PSYCHO-BUREAUCRATIC
RANT
RANT against the
psycho-bureaucratic who see only bottom lines
and never the people on the bottom!
RANT against
those who measure out years not by coffee spoons but rather by
counting beans!
by insurance
schemes
and the gov'ment campaigns
to ignore
ALL
who stand in
abject self-affacement, begging for help!
RANT againt those
who blame a child's agony upon the adult survivor who tries
to make sense of a life gone terribly wrong!
RANT against the
damned patriarchal society which denies that fathers (and
mothers) do
unspeakable wrongs to
daughters!
to sons!
RANT against the
inexorable, horrible, unspeakable reenactment of abuse
through
generations
RANT against the
fathers
RANT against the
mothers
RANT against the
priests the nuns the parents the doctors, the teachers the
ones who
have the power to protect but instead
assault
or at best
look the other way!
RANT against
mothers who collude with fathers, stepdads and "uncles"!!
RANT against the
made-for-tv movies which exploit the pain of others just
to make a buck!
the evangelists!
the pope!
the cops!
the courts!
the good ole boy networks!
the neighbors who don't want to 'meddle'
RANT AGAINST THE
CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE
RANT RANT RANT
RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT AND ,
RANT!!!
i am RANTING and i will not stop. i
will not allow my fate to be
one of SELF
DESTRUCTION , SELF EFFACEMENT AND INVISIBLITY
i will not shut
up, EVER!
I ASK ONLY
WHEN IS ANYONE
ELSE GOING TO SEE AND HEAR WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY?????
when will the
'good citizens' drop the curtains from their eyes and
acknowledge
that monsters DO
exist?
WHEN WILL ENOUGH BE ENOUGH????????
when will the
baby predators
the perpertrators
be brought to justice?
some speculate
that this will not happen
until hell freezes over
which, according
to most, is on its way,
sponsored by the
next millenium,
slouching toward
bethlehem to be born.
.
8/26/97
____________________________
thinking about
kerouac
or,
spontaneous
sidewalk
what is it with
me, lately?
i keep buying
books.
i'm poor
but would rather go hungry
than be hungry for words.
i want to be a
writer.
i read lots of writers
lots of poetry
lots of prose
lots of writers writing
about writing
and critics who
write about
them,
until i get to feeling like the quaker oats man
who is pictured on the label
holding another quaker box
with a little
quaker man,
holding. . .
you know?
i mean, does he
ever eat the oatmeal?
i throw over my captors,
self-consciouness
and fear,
and break free.
as, up from the
depths of my
inarticulate soul,
a voice speaks to
me
of kerouac,
word sketches
writ down in moments
of white heat.
now i stop all
thought,
and, suddenly,
finally !
i am left with IT!
jack 's
spontaneous prose
writ in humble small pad
full of word sketches
novels
poetry
prose
Emboldened,
out i go, tiny
pad in pocket
looking avidly
for
the perfect
poetic moment
to capture in
words,
a
stupendouslyspontaenous
experience of IT
and so, i go, casting
eyes up to sky
and down to
earth
& cement.
i walk quite a
bit,
and then further.
no epiphanies.
my pad begins to
sweat.
suddenly i stop
and discover
that i am
standing
in the midst
of a cheery
hop
scotch
scrawled in
blue chalk.
i had my note pad
ready
to capture it
all,
a frenzy of scribbling
of twilight days.
of summer
mothers' voices on the breeze
giving last call
for play
with
just
one
more
game
of hop scotch,
marbles, jumprope
kick the can,
giant steps,
played against backdrop
of swooping
clouds
of fireflies
gleaming
in the twilight
gloaming
dirty hands and
sticky faces,
bare feet on dewy
grass...
touch
taste
sight
sounds
alive!
and out on that
sidewalk
i stoop
scribbling
sketched
impressions,
literary
allusions,
and clever turns
of phrase.
i feel like a
real poet now.
i dash home
to fashion
my poem.
i open my
notebook excitedly!
and there,
on the
page,
no words at all,
only the
hopscotch
blocks,
blue chalk
and all.
@mc/517/97
revised 5/26/97
6/1/97
_________________
to allen, from a
distance (5/26/97 revision)
allen,
i saw you in my
dreams last night,
forever electrified,
leaping
bowing
singing
and praying
for us
all.
allen, as i slept,
i felt
your great generosity of spirit
lay a blessing on
me.
again, in my
dreams,
you are walking
in the supermarket
holding hands with
whitman -
you
are
chanting for peace
while
chicago erupted
in the democratic
violence of
1968.
i have before me,
father death,
a photot of your esctatic soul
made manifest by your utter joyful
dancing.
during human be-in, frisco,
67.
today, allen,
upon awakening,
i feel your death keenly.
i go out walking
surrounded by you
- in the leaves of grass,
rising from their
winter sleep
beneath the
melting snow
- in all the cracks in the
sidewalk
-in all
the skies above.
this year i will
plant sunflowers, allen..
today i fare thee well.
To:
jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Correction
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970910135820.00688d8c@maila.wm.edu>
References:
At 13.58 10/09/97
-0400,
Jonathan Pickle
<jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU> wrote:
>Rinaldo -
> very good list, but Allen Ginsberg's
pseudonyms need to be looked at - His
>name in The
Dharma Bums was Irwin Garden not Irving and his name in The
>Subterraneans
was Adam Moorad not Morand. These need
to be changed. Thanks.
>
> -Jon(By
the way, I'm new)
>
>
Jon,
many thanks for
the help, i've already corrected the list.
i've added yr
name to credits & comments (the friends give me
information).
i'm italian and
it's easy to mistyped or
mispelling names
(i apologies for the inconvenience),
ciao da
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
To: "Dufour"
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Caro
Rinaldo...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709101927.UAA09418@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
>Venezia, ed
io conosco una persona che ha scritto alcuni volumi di poesia
>che è proprio
di Venezia.
> Il poeta in
questione si chiama Iacopo Terenzio: lo conosci ?.
> Se così non
fosse, potrei copiarti qualche sua poesia e fartela leggere...
Francesco,
ti ringrazio per
l'interessamento, quando hai un po' di tempo
inviami pure le
poesie che ritieni piu' opportune, le leggero'
con piacere,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
...Howdy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\IMMAGINI\intox.jpg;
In-Reply-To:
<l03020906b03d48f20c06@[206.25.67.123]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970909231154.0069d6e0@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020907b03aa8e8269c@[206.25.67.121]>
<3.0.1.32.19970907141733.006f80d4@pop.gpnet.it>
<l03020901b0371937f30a@[206.25.67.102]> <9709060843.aa09671@mail.cruzio.com>
marie, good
morning,
thanks for yr
collected poems &
thanks for the
praises regard the Beat SuperNova,
i'm plaining on
the web shit kickin' list to create a section
devoted to new
north-american poetry, & i hope
u are the first
began the series.
i send you
a visual
elaboration of yr poem "INTOXICATION" (working in
progress...)
called intox.jpg,
let me know if
this pic is welcome or/and pleasant (suggestions
critique),
the web of course
stand for images & visual poetry,
but if u like
otherwise, i never put on the net
whatever if you
aren't happy,
yr
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<32490060@usa.net>
From:
32490060@usa.net
Date: Fri, 12 Sep
97 11:26:18 EST
To:
Friend@public.com
Subject: You do
it, I do it, we ALL do it!
LAUNDRY!!
$20,000,000 (Million) IN
SALES
In Just (5)
Months!!!
HELP......WE NEED MORE
DEALERS!!
The HOTTEST Consumer Product & MLM
In America!
* NO MORE
Detergent *
* NO MORE Fabric
Softener *
* NO MORE
Chemicals *
* NO MORE
Pollution *
You Won't Believe
It...Until You Try It!
Good for a minimum of
2500 Washes
30 Day Money-Back
Guarantee
7 YEAR
WARRANTY!
HOW CAN YOU LOSE?
PLUS... A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY
UNEQUALLED in MLM HISTORY!!!
MegaLevel Marketing Plan Puts All Others To Shame!
* 15 active Members earns $3000
per month *
* 24 active members brings you
$5000 per month *
* 96 gets you $20,000
per month *
FREE SIGN
UP
FREE
WEBSITE
Go to our website for complete details on
this great opportunity.
Then just complete the on-line
dealer application.
<A
HREF="http://www.vianett.com/laundrycd">CLICK HERE TO GO TO OUR
WEBSITE!</A>
anonymous servers
courtesy of www.cloaked.com. Click here to learn more
Return-Path:
<country@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep
1997 14:46:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender:
country@sover.net (Unverified)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
Subject: Re:
...Howdy.
hi rinaldo:
i can only view
the picture on the web site page. my mailer is all messed
up and i cannot
open any attatchments or graphics.
i know you will
do right by me, and so i give you permission to make the
page any way you
wish and i will view it most happily at your web site.
i am trying to
change my mailer to netscape 4.0 but i haven't had the
chance to down
load it yet. now you have given me the incentive.
i am so honored
and happy.
i hope you are
having a wonderful friday. it is a beautiful day up here in
the green
mountains of vermont.
with love and
appreciation,
marie
Return-Path:
<ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sat, 13 Sep
1997 00:37:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: A
Love Supreme by John Coltrane.
I have the
strange feeling you are looking at India
Nina
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep
1997 14:08:53 +0000
From: Marie Countryman
<country@sover.net>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: happy
sunday, rinaldo
rinaldo:
i finally have a
program that will let me open the attatchment you sent
of my
intoxication poem. if you send it, i can now open it. i am looking
forward to all that
you are doing. i spent lots of hours figureing out
this new program,
it was both frustrating and fun, and i look forward to
your art work.
i hope this finds
you well and happy.
love
marie
Return-Path:
<mrsam@concentric.net>
From: mrsam@concentric.net
Date: Sat, 13 Sep
97 17:17:57 EST
To:
read@myresume.com
Subject: Looking
for new contracts.
Semyon Varshavchik
Double Precision, Inc., P.O. Box 668,
Greenwood Lake, NY 10925
Voice Mail - 1+ (500) 447-3696 E-Mail - mrsam@concentric.net
Home:914-477-8236
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Objective:
Programmer/Analyst.
Independent Contract Consultant (New York City).
NOTICE: I am currently on a contract, but
I am available. I am looking for new
contracts at this time. I do not have an
*exact* ending
date for my new contract. If you would
like me to let you know when my
ending date is known, leave a message for
me with your fax number.
Technical
Background:
Development: C++, C, PERL 5, Motif.
Environment: UNIX, MS-DOS.
Applications: Sybase, JAM, TCP/IP.
Other: Visual Basic, Windows SDK.
Author of several freeware
Linux utilities, available on
sunsite, and its mirrors,
including: a POP3 client; an
interactive curses-based,
programmable, FTP client; an
X11R6/Motif 2.0 IRC client.
Experience:
Project: Major financial company,
New York, NY
Jan. 1997-present
(ending date
30 September 1997)
Database
conversion - integrating an external asset management database into
the company's
internal portfolio-management system. Duties: analysis,
project planning,
design, and development, using C++, SYBASE, UNIX, PERL,
INFORMIX.
Acquisition of an
asset management firm necessitated a conversion, and
integration, of
their client asset management database. Developed a
timeline, and a
project plan, then proceeded to implement the system
conversion.
Data archiving -
designed a database using to archive past transactions.
Converted
mainframe data extracts and loaded them into the archive database.
Began developing
on a user interface (VISUAL BASIC) to allow automatic
historical
inquiries.
Project: Spear, Leeds & Kellogg/Troster
Singer, New Jul. 1996 - Jan.
York, NY 1997
Trading system
conversion - replacing vendor-supplied software with a
trading system
developed in-house. Duties: Design, analysis, development and
enhancements of a
trading system for a NASDAQ/OTC trader, using C++, SYBASE,
UNIX(AIX), PERL,
MOTIF.
Due to design
limitations of the original (vendor-supplied) trading system,
it was being
replaced by a new system developed in house. Scope of work
involved
finishing the development of the new system (written in C++,
SYBASE, UNIX, and
PERL), as well as fixing the bug- ridden old system (C,
C++, SYBASE,
UNIX) and keeping it functional until the cutoff to the new
system.
Optimized the old
system to support a higher volume of transactions within
an existing
infrastructure. Implemented a new interface between the trading
system and a
clearing broker service. Developed software used to convert
portions of the
old trading system's database into data for the new trading
system. Converted
reports from the old system, from SQR into PERL. Enhanced
reports to
reconcile trades from both systems, for the parallel phase. Wrote
new reports for
the old, and the new, system to calculate rebate statements
for major
customers, based upon their trading volume, classes of stocks
being traded, and
other factors. Participated in an emergency port of the
old trading
system to Sybase/System 11, which was necessary in order to
support
additional load due to new NASDAQ regulations. Developed benchmark
code to estimate
the potential increase in performance, which was used to
justify the
upgrade path.
Project: Republic Services Corp., New York,
NY. Mar. 1995 - Jul. 1996
Analysis, design,
development, and support: C/C++, JAM, SYBASE, UNIX(AIX).
Duties:
enhancement of a customer account billing system - rewriting a
tape-based
mainframe application as a UNIX/SYBASE Client/Server application.
Developed the
front-end user interface - a JAM and SYBASE client, a single
version for both
X-Windows and character-based user terminals. Analyzed and
implemented
application security. Developed back-end daily accounting
application:
income/expense accrual, GL, A/R, A/P. Developed incoming and
outgoing external
application interfaces - involving writing fault-tolerant
background daemon
processes to queue up outgoing interface files and print
jobs. Worked on
conversion, user-acceptance testing, and documentation.
Worked with users
to resolve transition issues. June 1995: duties expanded
to lead
application developer, after a company-wide downsizing. Interviewed
candidates
applying for full time positions to be trained to maintain the
system after it
goes live. Gave introductory courses in C and UNIX to
employees being
retrained from mainframe to client-server environments.
Trained personnel
to take over my duties, after the project goes live.
Billing rate:
$65/hr.
Project: Lehman Brothers, Jersey City,
NJ. Aug. 1994 - Mar. 1995
Analysis, design,
development, and support: C/C++, JAM, SYBASE, NOVELL,
MS-DOS, WINDOWS,
UNIX environment.
Duties: Worked on
haircuts and hedging, and reporting-related issues - with
accountants,
business analysts and system administrators - using a trade
analysis and
reporting system: a JAM front end client with a SYBASE server.
Full development
life cycle: analyzed client's needs, designed changes and
enhancements to
the system, developed and implemented the enhancements,
provided support
for the users. Also: assisted on a WINDOWS SDK/POWERBUILDER
trading
application front end (also a SYBASE server) which is used for
securities
regulations compliance. Billing rate: $50/hr.
Automated Wagering, Hackensack, NJ. 1993 - 1994
Programmer-Analyst,
staff position. Analysis, design, development, and
documentation:
C++, C, UNIX(AIX), JAM, C-ISAM, TCP/IP development
environment.
Duties: full life
cycle of application development: analysis, design,
development,
testing; technical support; documentation; site installation.
Complete
responsibility for the UNIX/MSDOS-based portion of the department's
project:
customization and enhancement of a JAM interface to an accounting
and inventory
control system, consisting of a UNIX-based JAM application
invoked from DOS.
Coordinated enhancements to the accounting/inventory
system with the
corresponding changes to the terminal interface. Analyzed
client's requests
for enhancements, formalized the eventual design changes,
eventual
implementation, documentation, site installation. Final salary:
$48,000/yr.
JYACC, Parsippany, NJ. 1990 -
1993
Design,
development, and support of UNIX and MS-DOS projects for clients. C,
UNIX, SYBASE,
TCP/IP, JAM, C++, MS-DOS, Oracle, 3270, X.25.
Duties:
application design, implementation, testing - full life cycle;
porting; system
administration; client negotiation; technical support;
hardware and
software research/installation, project management, disaster
recovery.
Development of a
UNIX-based front end processing system for client's
back-office
billing system: a distributed SYBASE/Open- Client transaction
processing
system, with an interactive user interface in JAM. Also batch
interface via
file-transfer, and point-to-point interface using X.25.
Development of a
TCP/IP server process to coordinate database access between
the different
parts of the system. Automatic reporting system: generation of
t-roff scripts,
then reprogramming the network's E-mail service to interface
with third-party
fax software package to achieve a completely automatic
report generation
and delivery system.
Development of an
interactive database application to track client's
progress in a
promotional campaign in Oracle/UNIX environment. System
installation.
Database design, implementation, and testing. Flexible report
generation.
Enhancements, technical support. Final salary: $43,000/yr.
Other:
Other skills and
areas of knowledge: 68000 machine language, compiler
design, operating
system design.
Education:
College Of Engineering And Applied Sciences.
State University Of New York, Stony Brook,
NY 1986 - 1990
Diploma received:
B.S. in Computer Science, Applied Mathematics and
Statistics.
Dean's list.
US Citizen.
http://www.concentric.net/~Mrsam/
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/5799/resume.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright
1995-1997, S. Varshavchik. All rights reserved. sam-001@dpinc.ml.org
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep
1997 11:20:13 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
happy sunday, marie.
rinaldo i am so
excited to see my poem! i think it looks really nice on the screen on the web,
but i love the colored edition
as well! but
would like to be taken a littel more serious. also, font is a little hard to
read in the colors, don't think
it's the colors
as much as the font, perhaps.
i am so glad you
like working on the web, it makes me feel like my poems up there are a labor of
love.
you have a
beautiful day today.
lots of love
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> goodday
marie,
> i've
included the new poetry section in the www beat page,
> yr
INTOXICATION poem is now at
> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
> & it
starts (i hope) a long series... tell me what u think about.
>
> i resend to
you the visual pic poem (intox.jpg)
> u can't read
some days ago,
>
> the Beat
SuperNova is now updated 'cuz of i
> have added
some pictures of beats & i like to
> have yr
opinion about the beat page,
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>
> i like alot
to work on the web,
> i'm waiting
for yr opinion!
>
> yr friend,
> rinaldo.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: intox.jpg
> intox.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: happy
sunday, marie.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\IMMAGINI\varie\intox.jpg;
In-Reply-To:
<199709131810.OAA14237@pike.sover.net>
References:
goodday marie,
i've included the
new poetry section in the www beat page,
yr INTOXICATION
poem is now at
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
& it starts
(i hope) a long series... tell me what u think about.
i resend to you
the visual pic poem (intox.jpg)
u can't read some
days ago,
the Beat
SuperNova is now updated 'cuz of i
have added some
pictures of beats & i like to
have yr opinion
about the beat page,
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
i like alot to
work on the web,
i'm waiting for
yr opinion!
yr friend,
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep
1997 11:31:17 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
happy sunday, marie.
rinaldo it IS a
shitkicking list and i love the picture of you carrying all those books and
papers and i love the background
pattern and i
love all the shitkickin' poets you are naming for the world to see. love, marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> goodday
marie,
> i've
included the new poetry section in the www beat page,
> yr
INTOXICATION poem is now at
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
> & it
starts (i hope) a long series... tell me what u think about.
>
> i resend to
you the visual pic poem (intox.jpg)
> u can't read
some days ago,
>
> the Beat
SuperNova is now updated 'cuz of i
> have added
some pictures of beats & i like to
> have yr
opinion about the beat page,
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>
> i like alot
to work on the web,
> i'm waiting
for yr opinion!
>
> yr friend,
> rinaldo.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: intox.jpg
> intox.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep
1997 11:31:36 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
happy sunday, marie.
rinaldo it IS a
shitkicking list and i love the picture of you carrying all those books and
papers and i love the background
pattern and i
love all the shitkickin' poets you are naming for the world to see. love, marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> goodday
marie,
> i've
included the new poetry section in the www beat page,
> yr
INTOXICATION poem is now at
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
> & it
starts (i hope) a long series... tell me what u think about.
>
> i resend to
you the visual pic poem (intox.jpg)
> u can't read
some days ago,
>
> the Beat
SuperNova is now updated 'cuz of i
> have added
some pictures of beats & i like to
> have yr
opinion about the beat page,
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>
> i like alot
to work on the web,
> i'm waiting
for yr opinion!
>
> yr friend,
> rinaldo.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: intox.jpg
> intox.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
SuperNova www photos of beats.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3412070D.3D77@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970902142032.006db37c@pop.gpnet.it> <3.0.1.32.19970906193424.0069b2e0@pop.gpnet.it>
James,
i've placed some
photos of beats in the main page,
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
& i've added
a new poetry section
when u are not
too busy, please check the work, yr
wisdom is
invaluable to me,
ciao da
Rinaldo.
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: pics of
beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341455DA.615F@sunflower.com>
References:
patricia,
i've placed some
photos of beats in the main page,
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
you gave me tha
right kick to start!,
ciao da
RinaldoReturn-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep
1997 11:39:07 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
happy sunday, marie.
rinaldo !!! i
love your adding all of the journalists and revolutionaries and the wives and
the women and peter orlovsky's
true calling as
allen's wife/spouse. it is a big list and i am glad because you transcend the
pettiness of who is cooler that
who. and who is
the coolest/warmest soul i know: YOU!!!!
love again
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> goodday
marie,
> i've
included the new poetry section in the www beat page,
> yr INTOXICATION
poem is now at
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
> & it
starts (i hope) a long series... tell me what u think about.
>
> i resend to
you the visual pic poem (intox.jpg)
> u can't read
some days ago,
>
> the Beat
SuperNova is now updated 'cuz of i
> have added
some pictures of beats & i like to
> have yr
opinion about the beat page,
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>
> i like alot
to work on the web,
> i'm waiting
for yr opinion!
>
> yr friend,
> rinaldo.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: intox.jpg
> intox.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64
To: dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: maya
gorton?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970914101420.78662C-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
derek requested
the address is:
Marioka7@aol.com
btw have u see
the web Beat SuperNova?
i've included
more pictures of beats.
ciao da rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
To:
Marioka7@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
SuperNova
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
maya,
i've set up a web
page
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
please, when u
are not tooooo busy, check it,
thanks,
Rinaldo.
To:
babu@electriciti.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat SuperNova
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Douglas,
i've set up a web
page
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
please, when u
are not to busy, check it,
thanks,
Rinaldo.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
happy sunday, marie.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709141539.LAA12130@pike.sover.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970914132751.006a17b8@pop.gpnet.it>
thanks
marie!Return-Path: <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep
1997 20:29:51 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Beat
SuperNova www photos of beats.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> James,
>
> i've placed
some photos of beats in the main page,
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>
> & i've
added a new poetry section
>
> when u are
not too busy, please check the work, yr
> wisdom is
invaluable to me,
>
> ciao da
> Rinaldo.
Thanks
Rinaldo--I'll check it out
James
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep
1997 00:06:06 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: pics
of beats
Rinaldo, I have enjoyed
this list so much.
One of the books
Billy Burroughs JR. wrote was "Kentucky fried"
Ohle wrote
"Mortified Man". "Cows are freaky when they look at you"
I attached a
photo of Charles Plymell
ciao
p
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\charlyplymell.jpg"
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
X-Sender:
babu@electriciti.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep
1997 00:36:19 -0700
To: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject:
percipient (babu)
Cc:
ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu, agit8@hotmail.com, bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
ChrisHein@aol.com, CVEditions@aol.com,
Dfroley@aol.com,
"Emmanuel J. Palad"
<palad@TCNJ.EDU>, EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
Raminocs@aol.com, Jacrosby1@aol.com,
fi@oceanstar.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
LunarLeFog@aol.com, Marioka7@aol.com,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
ddmoses@earthlink.net,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net, vpaul@gwdi.com,
dcarter@TOGETHER.NET,
race@midusa.net, dkpenn@oees.com,
love_singing@msn.com,
beach@qconline.com
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Percipient.html
still haven't
found what I'm looking for
to steal a line
or two from you two
<<hm>> <<hm>> <<hm>>
can almost hear
them thinking
boom mikes,
earphones, eyes closed
vocals loud and
worth listening
two hundred,
three hundred, here
without you, with
or without you
fucking sobbing
for attention
heart throbing
with attention
like a sponge
being wrenched
my humble brain
succumbing
sobbing, sobbing
another day at
the races....
people placing
their bets
fanning their
faces
getting close to
the wire
pumpkin or sewer
savage
throwaway coming
up close
pumpkin, sewer
savage, throwaway
pumpkin,
thorwaway, sewer fasveee
pumpkin,
throwoary, sewer savenge
throw away, pumpkin, sewer savage
throw away
pumpkin,
sewer savage
Douglas
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_[[to
get off this list, return "unsubscribe"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The beginning and the end of all
literary activity is the
reproduction of the world that surrounds
me by means
of the world that is in me. . . " --
Goethe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
|
0 | The
map is
not the territory
| { - | --Korzybski
----> | /\ |
=========
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep
1997 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net, cosmicat@erols.com, BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu,
carl@world.std.com,
babu@electriciti.com, race@midusa.net,
bocelts@scsn.net,
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca, letabor@cruzio.com,
CVEditions@aol.com, Tread37@aol.com,
SSASN@aol.com, jgrant@bookzen.com,
kenster@mit.edu, love_singing@msn.com,
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: blub
When the man in the scuba-diving
suit opened the car door it was
obviously too
late. the other passengers and i were is
a floating
dream-state,
still gazing blankly at the watery landscape out the window. I
looked over at
Whitney and she cocked her head in disbelief.
I don't know
why she was doing
this, but she held her arms in front of her, they were
moving slightly
and rhythmically, like a string puppet dancing in
slow-motion.
The windshield was a strange
combination of reflections: i could
see through it
but on top of that it reflected the contents of the car,
including my
face, and there was still an air-bubble trapped behind it so
that there was a
curved mirror-like reflection of selected parts of the
dashboard. There was no sunlight and i was cold.
Kim's mouth was open but her eyes
were closed and her face was
grey. she always falls asleep when she sits in the
front seat. I couldn't
see Jenny cause
she was driving and i was sitting behind her.
i could only
see the top of
her head and her recently bleached hair.
Like phosphorescent
seaweed waving
around.
This is a film, right? I'm trapped
in another bad film, right?
Even the thoughts in my head sound muffled by
the time they reach my ears.
The bubbles from my mouth pass in front of my
eyes.
As they go up to the surface and
join the rest of the air. Up
to the surface,
where air belongs. The sunlight is so
far away from me now!
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: pics
of beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341C4E98.7351@sunflower.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970914133741.006a17b8@pop.gpnet.it>
Patricia,
fine! i'll add
the Charles portrait among the
beat photo
gallery, again thanks for yr gentle
support,
ciao di cuore da
Rinaldo.
At 00.06 15/09/97
-0500, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>Rinaldo, I
have enjoyed this list so much.
>
>One of the
books Billy Burroughs JR. wrote was "Kentucky fried"
>Ohle wrote
"Mortified Man". "Cows are freaky when they look at you"
>
>I attached a
photo of Charles Plymell
>ciao
>p
>
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\charlyplymell.jpg"
>Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep
1997 10:35:04 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
CC:
pelliott@sunflower.com
Subject: Re: pics
of beats
james G
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\p31james.jpg"
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep
1997 11:57:38 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
CC:
pelliott@sunflower.com
Subject: Re: pics
of beats
William, when I
first met him in Texas, around 78
p
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\williamintex.jpg"
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep
1997 12:07:59 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Catinthehat
<catinhat@ihug.co.nz>
CC:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
hi
William S.
p
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\wsbgood.jpg"
Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Qualche
informazione...
Date: Tue, 16 Sep
1997 01:15:17 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Caro Rinaldo,
ti chiedo un piccolo aiuto:
mi puoi fare (quando hai
tempo) un piccolo
sommario dei comandi da utilizzare in Beat-L, soprattutto
per raggiungere i
materiali d'archivio?
Ti ringrazio anticipatamente.
Ciao !
Francesco.
p.s. I: Non
riesco a mettermi in contatto con la tua home-page o meglio, ci
riesco, ma mi
compare solo l'accesso alla tua casella di posta elettronica:
sei "under
construction" o sono io che faccio qualche errore ?.
p.s. II: Mi ho
molto apprezato il tuo intervento in Beat-L con la citazione
da "A love
supreme"; mi stavo domandando se ti è mai capitato di ascoltare
"Interstellar
space", che ha in comune con "A love supreme" la struttura
del mantra,
spinta però all'estremo attraverso un serrato duetto
sax-batteria. Se
vuoi te ne posso fare una copia su cassetta.
p.s. III: Ho
cominciato a copiare le poesie di cui ti ho scritto la
settimana scorsa.
Ancora ciao!
F.
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Thanks!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341D6A36.1B0F@sunflower.com>
References:
<199709151628.EAA23832@nickkean.ihug.co.nz>
Patricia,
again thanks!,
i've added yr contribution pic&comments to
the Beat
SuperNova, ciao e ancora grazie, Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
To:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Qualche informazione...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709160024.BAA01521@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
Francesco, adesso
provo qualche comando e poi ti
dico come
funziona, non vorrei averti dato informazioni
imprecise,
Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: R:
Qualche informazione...
Date: Tue, 16 Sep
1997 19:10:24 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Va bene, grazie
mille !
F.
----------
> Da: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
> A: Dufour
<dufour@ulisse.it>
> Oggetto: Re:
Qualche informazione...
> Data:
martedì 16 settembre 1997 18.38
>
> Francesco,
adesso provo qualche comando e poi ti
> dico come
funziona, non vorrei averti dato informazioni
> imprecise,
> Rinaldo.
To: Howard Park
<Hpark4@AOL.COM>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: list of
yr beat garage books
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Howard Park
<Hpark4@AOL.COM> wrote:
Please send your
e-mail address to Hpark4@aol.com and I will send you a list
of reader copies
of beat or beat related books...
Howard,
my address is
rinaldo@gpnet.it
thanks,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
To: davison@tyco.net.au
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
SuperNova on the web (Re: Beats 30th aug 1997)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
hello robert,
i've placed the
list on the Web at the following
address (with
photos of some beats)
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
Terry Southern is
already in the list,
thanks for your
support, i love that
friends
collaborate with opinions at
the growing of
the list,
have i your
permission to include yr
name in
comments&credits?
ciao da Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
rinaldo@gpnet.it
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Robert Davison
<davison@tyco.net.au> wrote in article
<01bcbdf1$2a9977c0$81ee14cb@sirius.tyco.net.au>...
>
> What about
Terry Southern? Seams to me he was more of a "beat" than the
> likes of
Kenneth Patchen or Norman Mailer.
>
> Southern is
best known for his work on the screenplays, "Dr. Strangelove,
> Or How I
Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb" and "Easy Rider, but
> he's also an
accomplished writer of short stories, novels and errr...
> assorted
other things.
>
> Although not
really associated with the Beats in the mind of the public,
> Southern
came to prominence in roughly the same era and often wrote about
> similar
things: jazz musicians, hipsters, drugs etc. He worked with
William
> S. Burroughs
on the "Junky" film project, which never really got off the
> ground...
>
> If you want
to check out Terry Southern, see if you can find his "Red
Dirt
> Marijuana
and Other Tastes" collection - some really great, witty stuff
in
> there...
>
> Robert
Davison
>
>
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted"
> - Hassan I Sabbah
>
Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Caro
Rinaldo
Date: Wed, 17 Sep
1997 16:01:44 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Come promesso ti
invio alcune poesie di Jacopo Terenzio.
Sappimi dire...
Ciao!
Francesco.
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\JT.doc"
To:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: R:
Qualche informazione...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709161815.TAA04254@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
Francesco ti
invio alcune informazioni,
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
inviando un
messaggio
all'indirizzo
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
e scrivendo nel
testo INFO REFCARD dovresti ottenere:
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:42:55 -0400
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Output of your job "rinaldo"
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
> INFO REFCARD
Summary of
resource utilization
-------------------------------
CPU time: 0.274 sec Device I/O: 48
Overhead CPU: 0.038 sec Paging I/O: 7
CPU model: 3090 DASD model: 3390
Job origin: rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:42:55 -0400
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: File: "LISTSERV REFCARD"
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
LISTSERV(R) System Reference
Library, release 1.8c
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright L-Soft international,
1986-1996
Last update: 13 Aug
1996
************************************************************
*
*
* LISTSERV command reference cards: *
*
*
*-> LISTSERV REFCARD: General user
commands *
*
LISTOWNR REFCARD: List and file management commands *
*
LISTMAST REFCARD: Commands for the LISTSERV maintainer *
*
*
************************************************************
Commands are listed in alphabetical order, with the minimum acceptable
abbreviation in capital
letters. Angle brackets are used to
indicate
optional
parameters. All commands which return a
file accept an optional
'F=fformat'
keyword (without the quotes) that lets
you select the format
in which
you want the
file sent; the default
format is normally
appropriate in
all cases. Some esoteric, historical
or seldom-used
commands and
options have been omitted.
List subscription
commands (from most to least important)
---------------------------------------------------------
SUBscribe listname <full_name> Subscribe to a list, or change
your name if
already subscribed
ANONYMOUS -> Subscribe anonymously
SIGNOFF Remove
yourself:
listname - From the specified
list
* - From all
lists on that server
* (NETWIDE - From all lists in the
network
SET listname options Alter your subscription
options:
ACK/NOACK/MSGack -> Acknowledgements for
postings
CONCEAL/NOCONCEAL -> Hide yourself from
REVIEW
Mail/NOMail -> Toggle receipt of
mail
MIME/NOMIME -> Prefer/avoid MIME
format
(especially MIME digests)
DIGests/INDex/NODIGests/NOINDex
-> Ask for digests or message
indexes rather than getting
messages as they are posted
REPro/NOREPro -> Copy of your own
postings?
TOPICS: ALL -> Select topics you
are
<+/->topicname subscribed to (add/remove
one or replace entire list)
Options for mail
headers of incoming postings (choose one):
FULLhdr or FULL822 -> "Full" (normal)
mail headers
IETFhdr -> Internet-style
headers
SHORThdr or SHORT822 -> Short headers
DUALhdr -> Dual headers,
useful with PC
or Mac mail programs
SUBJecthdr -> Normal header
with list name
in subject line
CONFIRM listname1 <listname2
<...>> Confirm your
subscription
(when LISTSERV requests it)
Other
list-related commands
---------------------------
GETPOST listname ref1 <ref2
<...>> Order individual
messages from
list archives
INDex listname Sends a directory of
available
archive files for the list, if
postings are
archived
Lists <option> Send a list of lists
as follow:
(no option) -> Local lists only,
one line
per list
Detailed -> Local lists,
full information
returned in a file
Global /xyz -> All known lists
whose name or
title
contains 'xyz'
SUMmary <host> -> Membership summary
for all
lists on specified host
SUMmary ALL -> For all hosts (long output,
send request via mail!)
SUMmary TOTAL -> Just the total for
all hosts
Query listname Query your
subscription options
for a particular list (use the
SET command to change them)
* -> Query
all lists you are
subscribed
to on that server
REGister full_name Tell your name to
LISTSERV, so
that you don't have to specify
it on subsequent
SUBSCRIBE's
OFF Make LISTSERV
forget your name
REView listname <(options> Get information about a list
BY sort_field -> Sort list in a certain order:
Country by country of origin
Name by name (last,
then first)
NODEid by hostname/nodeid
Userid by userid
BY (field1 field2) -> You can specify more than
one
sort field if enclosed in
parentheses: BY (NODE NAME)
Countries -> Synonym of BY
COUNTRY
LOCal -> Don't
forward request to
peers
Msg -> Send reply
via interactive
messages (BITNET users only)
NOHeader -> Don't send list
header
Short -> Don't list
subscribers
SCAN listname text Scan a list's membership
for a
name or address
SEArch listname word1 <word2
<...>> Search list archives
or:
word1 <word2 <...>> IN listname
FROM date1 -> From this date
TODAY -> From today
TODAY-7 -> In the last 7 days
TO
date2 ->
To this date
WHERE
SUBJECT CONTAINS xxxx -> Only this subject
AND/OR
SENDER CONTAINS xxxx -> Only this author
Complex boolean
operations are
supported, see database guide
STats listname <(options> Get statistics about a list (VM)
LOCal -> Don't forward to peers
Informational
commands
----------------------
Help
Obtain a list of commands
INFO <topic> Order a LISTSERV
manual, or get
<listname> a list of available
ones (if no
topic was specified); or get
information about a list
Query File fn ft <filelist>
<(options> Get date/time of last
update of
a file, and GET/PUT file access
code
FLags -> Get
additional technical
data (useful when reporting
problems to experts)
RELEASE Find
out who maintains the
server and the version of the
software and network data files
SHOW <function> Display information as
follows:
ALIAS node1 <node2
<...>> -> BITNET nodeid to Internet
hostname mapping
BITEARN (VM only) -> Statistics about the
BITEARN
NODES file
DISTribute -> Statistics about
DISTRIBUTE
DPATHs host1 <host2
<...>> -> DISTRIBUTE
path from that
server to specified host(s)
DPATHs * -> Full DISTRIBUTE path tree
FIXes (VM only) -> List of fixes
installed on the
server (non-VM see LICENSE)
HARDWare or HW -> Hardware information
LICense ->
License/capacity information
and software build date
LINKs node1 <node2
<...>> -> Network
links at the BITNET
node(s)
in question
NADs node1 <node2
<...>> -> Addresses
LISTSERV recognizes
as node administrators
NETwork (VM only) -> Statistics about the NJE
network
NODEntry node1 <node2
<...>> -> BITEARN NODES
entry for the
specified node(s)
NODEntry node1 /abc*/xyz -> Just the ':xyz.' tag and all
tags whose name starts with
'abc'
PATHs snode node1 <node2
<...>> -> BITNET path between 'snode'
and the specified node(s)
POINTs <ALL | list1
list2...> -> Graduated license
point
information for planning
STATs -> Usage
statistics
(default option)
VERSion -> Same as
RELEASE command
(no function) -> Same as SHOW STATS
Commands related
to file server functions
-----------------------------------------
AFD
Automatic File Distribution
ADD fn ft <filelist <prolog>> Add file or generic entry to
your AFD list
DELete fn ft <filelist> Delete file(s) from your AFD
list (wildcards are supported)
List Displays your AFD list
For node administrators:
FOR user ADD/DEL/LIST etc Perform requested function on
behalf of a user you have
control over
(wildcards are
supported for DEL and LIST)
FUI
File Update Information: same
syntax as AFD, except that FUI
ADD accepts no 'prolog text'
GET fn ft <filelist>
<(options> Order the
specified file or
package
PROLOGtext xxxx -> Specify a 'prolog
text' to be
inserted on top of the file
GIVE fn ft <filelist> <TO>
user Sends a file to someone else
INDex <filelist> Same as GET xxxx
FILELIST
(default is LISTSERV FILELIST)
PW function Define/change a
"personal
password"
for protecting AFD/FUI
subcriptions, authenticating PUT
commands, and so on
ADD firstpw -> Define a password
for the
first time
CHange newpw <PW=oldpw> -> Change password
RESET -> Reset
(delete) password
SENDme Same as GET
Other (advanced)
commands
-------------------------
DATAbase function Access LISTSERV
database:
Search DD=ddname
<ECHO=NO> -> Perform
database search
(see INFO DATABASE for more
information on this)
List -> Get a list
of databases
available from that server
REFRESH dbname -> Refresh database
index, if
suitably privileged
DBase Same
as DATABASE
DISTribute <type> <source> <dest>
<options> Distribute a file or a
mail
message to a list of users (see
INFO DIST for more details on
the syntax)
Type:
MAIL -> Data is a
mail message, and
recipients are defined
by '<dest>'
FILE -> Data is not
mail, recipients
are defined by '<dest>'
RFC822 -> Data is mail
and recipients
are defined by the RFC822
'To:'/'cc:' fields
Source:
DD=ddname -> Name of DDname
holding the
data to distribute (default:
'DD=DATA')
Dest:
<TO> user1 <user2
<...>> -> List of
recipients
<TO> DD=ddname -> One recipient per
line
Options for the general user:
ACK=NOne/MAIL/MSG -> Acknowledgement level
(default: ACK=NONE)
CANON=YES -> 'TO' list in
'canonical' form
(uid1 host1 uid2 host2...)
DEBUG=YES -> Do not actually
perform the
distribution; returns debug
path information
INFORM=MAIL -> Send file delivery
message to
recipients via mail
TRACE=YES -> Same as DEBUG=YES, but
file
is actually distributed
Options requiring privileges:
FROM=user -> File originator
FROM=DD=ddname -> One line: 'address
name'
FOR user command Execute a command on
behalf of
another user (for node
administrators)
SERVE user Restore service
to a disabled
user
THANKs Check
the server is alive
UDD Access the User Directory
Database (there are 18 functions
and many sub-functions, so the
syntax is not given here)
Syntax of
parameters
--------------------
filelist = 1 to 8 characters from the following set:
A-Z 0-9 $#@+-_:
fformat = Netdata, Card, Disk, Punch, LPunch,
UUencode, XXencode, VMSdump,
MIME/text, MIME/Appl, Mail
fn = same syntax as 'filelist'
ft = same syntax as 'filelist'
full_name =
firstname <middle_initial> surname (*not* your e-mail address)
host = Internet hostname
listname = name of an existing list
node = BITNET nodeid or Internet hostname of a
BITNET machine which
has taken care of supplying a
':internet.' tag in its BITEARN
NODES entry
pw = A password with characters from the
set: A-Z 0-9 $#@_-?!|%
user = Any valid Internet address not longer
than 80 characters; if
omitted, the 'hostname' part
defaults to that of the command
originator
-*-*-*-*-*-
inviando un
messaggio
all'indirizzo
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
e scrivendo nel
testo INDEX BEAT-L dovresti ottenere:
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:43:09 -0400
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City
University of NY (1.8c)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: File: "BEAT-L FILELIST"
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
* BEAT-L FILELIST for LISTSERV@CUNYVM.
*
* Files concerning the BEAT-L Beat Generation
List
*
* This filelist may be sorted in columns 47 to
63 to get a list of
* files in the order of their updates. Sorting
in descending order
* shows the most recently updated files at the
top.
*
* To have any of these files sent to you, send
a GET command to
* LISTSERV@CUNYVM in the form of GET
<filename> <filetype> <listname>.
* (e.g. GET BEAT-L LOG9505 BEAT-L).
*
* If an entry shows nrecs=0 the file is not available.
*
* rec last - change
* filename
filetype GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs date
time File description
* --------
-------- --- --- --- ----- -----
-------- -------- ----------------
*
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
*
* The GET/PUT authorization codes shown with
each file entry describe
* who is authorized to GET or PUT the file:
*
* ALL = Everybody
* OWN = List owners
*
*
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
BEAT-L
MAILTPL ALL OWN . .
0 ........ ........ Listserv info
BEAT-L
WELCOME ALL OWN V 69
11 95/05/03 18:52:27 Welcome message
BEAT-L
CONFIRM ALL OWN V 79
52 95/05/09 13:28:01 Listserv info
BEAT-L
COMP_PCI ALL OWN F 80
6428 96/10/25 11:52:08 PCI's List
*
* NOTEBOOK archives for the list
* (Monthly notebook)
* rec last - change
* filename
filetype GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs date
time Remarks
* --------
-------- --- --- --- ----- -----
-------- -------- -------------------------------
BEAT-L
LOG9505 PRV OWN V 80
35 95/05/30 11:11:34 Started on Mon, 29 May 1995 22:22:45 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9506 PRV OWN V 83
2252 95/06/30 22:59:02 Started on Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:33:48 EDT
BEAT-L
LOG9507 PRV OWN V 119
4808 95/07/31 23:50:25 Started on Sat, 1 Jul 1995 00:54:41 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9508 PRV OWN V 85
5644 95/08/31 22:37:40 Started on Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:21:34 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9509 PRV OWN V 85
5007 95/09/30 20:34:51 Started on Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:56:14 +0100
BEAT-L
LOG9510 PRV OWN V 80
5765 95/10/31 19:02:11 Started on Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:04:27 +0800
BEAT-L
LOG9511 PRV OWN V 242 10949 95/11/30 23:55:16 Started on
Wed, 1 Nov 1995 02:11:56 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9512 PRV OWN V 80
9231 95/12/31 20:17:32 Started on Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:56:09 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9601 PRV OWN V 84
4050 96/01/31 22:17:07 Started on Mon, 1 Jan 1996 11:37:24 -0800
BEAT-L
LOG9602 PRV OWN V 144
9734 96/02/29 22:24:44 Started on Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:12 +0000
BEAT-L
LOG9603 PRV OWN V 81 12443 96/03/31 09:01:37 Started on
Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:52:40 -0600
BEAT-L
LOG9604 PRV OWN V 81
9898 96/04/30 22:15:33 Started on Sun, 31 Mar 1996 11:31:45 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9605 PRV OWN V 80
6312 96/05/31 23:09:11 Started on Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:38:52 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9606 PRV OWN V 112
6829 96/06/30 19:25:53 Started on Sat, 1 Jun 1996 09:40:32 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9607 PRV OWN V 149
3140 96/07/31 10:41:17 Started on Mon, 1 Jul 1996 16:07:36 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9608 PRV OWN V 80
5393 96/08/31 22:43:36 Started on Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:06:58 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9609 PRV OWN V 119 11222 96/09/30 23:52:39 Started on
Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:54:29 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9610 PRV OWN V 242 31185 96/10/31 21:00:00 Started on
Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:29:03 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9611 PRV OWN V 113 21865 96/11/30 19:06:04 Started on
Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:37:27 EST
BEAT-L
LOG9612 PRV OWN V 83 25562 96/12/31 22:59:04 Started on
Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:21:05 -0800
BEAT-L
LOG9701 PRV OWN V 119 31567 97/01/31 16:54:25 Started on
Wed, 1 Jan 1997 02:28:05 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9702 PRV OWN V 83 25404 97/02/28 22:54:34 Started on
Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:52:42 +0000
BEAT-L
LOG9703 PRV OWN V 118 20887 97/03/31 23:19:44 Started on
Sat, 1 Mar 1997 00:42:04 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9704 PRV OWN V 83 73554 97/04/30 23:59:59 Started on
Tue, 1 Apr 1997 03:44:03 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9705 PRV OWN V 86 68508 97/05/31 23:58:32 Started on
Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:39:21 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9706 PRV OWN V 98 50538 97/06/30 23:59:34 Started on
Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:50:16 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9707 PRV OWN V 83 39153 97/07/31 23:37:33 Started on
Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:00:07 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9708 PRV OWN V 87 53453 97/08/31 21:51:50 Started on
Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:29:14 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9709 PRV OWN V 87 21597 97/09/16 16:19:17 Started on
Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:21:55 -0400
-*-*-*-*-
come vedi gli
archivi della Beat-L cominciano
nel maggio del
1995.
ora puoi
ottenerli inviando per ciascun un
messaggio
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
GET BEAT-L
LOG9505 BEAT-L
in questo modo
ottiene il file di maggio del 95
per avere i file
di giugno 95 procedi con lo stesso
indirizzo ma
GET BEAT-L
LOG9506 BEAT-L
e cosi' via.
spero di non
averti creato confusione,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: R: R:
Qualche informazione...
Date: Thu, 18 Sep
1997 10:40:12 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Grazie Rinaldo,
farò qualche tentativo !
Ciao!
Francesco
----------
> Da: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
> A: Dufour
<dufour@ulisse.it>
> Oggetto: Re:
R: Qualche informazione...
> Data:
mercoledì 17 settembre 1997 23.30
>
> Francesco ti
invio alcune informazioni...
To:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: JT
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\jt.doc;
In-Reply-To:
<199709171508.QAA07387@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
Francesco,
purtroppo non ho
potuto leggere le poesie di JT per
motivi tecnici.
il mio computer non riesce a leggere
i file in formato
word8, ti prego, se ne hai voglia,
di reinviarmi il
file delle poesie salvandolo in formato
word6 oppure
word2 oppure in modo testo, ti rispedisco
il file
nell'eventualita' che tu non lo abbia piu'
nell'harddisco,
grazie.
Rinaldo.
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\JT.doc"
Return-Path:
<dufour@ulisse.it>
From:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Caro
Rinaldo II
Date: Thu, 18 Sep
1997 14:54:56 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Come promesso ti
invio alcune poesie di Jacopo Terenzio.
Sappimi dire...
Ciao!
Francesco.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da: J. Terenzio,
Maledetti e basta, Venezia 1992.
Come noi
Ognuno di quelli
come noi
è un esule,
un dissidente,
un compatito,
uno scoop
sporadico,
un emblematico,
un'erbaccia per
infusi,
un caso accampato
tra i rifiuti
di questa
tracotanza civile, sì.
Una bidonville da
seminario,
una tavola
rotonda,
una statistica,
un saggio
sociologico,
un alibi,
un aggiramento,
una diatriba.
TRONCANO senza
rossori.
COMPRANO i
giornali.
Truffano,
scannano.
Baciano
crocifissi e banchi.
Usano ogni legge
sacra.
Sputano
sulla vita e
sulla morte;
sull'amore e sul
dolore.
Coinvolgendoci,
si maledicono.
Note sparse
Note sparse della
mia resistenza.
Una croce in
marmo rosa
tra ghiande
dorate.
Una nota in
grassetto: chi siete voi,
che conosciamo ?
E sotto: agosto
'80, Bologna.
Una frase di un
certo spessore: Zeus
tagliò l'uomo in
due
per castigarlo
senza distruggerlo.
E forse questo
volevo ricordare.
Invano
Mi arrabbio per
la mancanza di giustizia
che ci riempie
per illuminazioni.
Invano,
da troppo,
divento aspro,
slìmegoso.
Dipende dal
soffrirti,
ma non basta a
spiegare il dolore
che quando è
troppo, è niente,
un freddo
acciaio.
Ti accontenti di
poco -tanto-
Non chiedi nulla
-Tutto-
Quel nero su
bianco che dicesse
quello che vuoi.
Posso
rassicurarti di ciò che sento
e che c'è ?
Ma iperprotettivo
Temo che non ti
renda conto
che qualcosa,
qualcuno, qualche azione
ogni giorno
è un po' più vera
di altre.
Senza secondi
fini,
quel poco di
pratico,
salvato, di me.
Le ferite,
l'età,
il sincero,
raggranellati in
fondo.
Non ho trovato
Non ho trovato
la ricca, vecchia
americana,
che mi facesse
fare la fine
del verme nel
formaggio.
E curo
meticolosamente l'aspetto trasandato
nel culto
dell'immagine, del look.
Il sovrappeso si
è allargato
a sette
chilogrammi
né davanti alla
macchina da scrivere
so rinunciare al
vino.
Mi chiami amore
grande.
Mi chiamano
Maestro.
Si dice che
possegga una gran forza morale
mentre in qualche
occasione
rasento il
plateale.
Un cuore da
affamato e qualche lacrima.
Difficoltose
fantasie in perenne viaggio.
Trentanovesimo
compleanno.
Avete ragione
Problemi miei
i rinvii, le
ripetizioni
L'applicarmi
nelle costruzioni
sinottiche,
sintattiche,
come in un
casellario giudiziale
per non lasciarmi
cogliere in flagrante
Resta
inverificato
quello che più
interessa:
a me ? a voi ? a
noi ?
Voi
Degradandovi mi
degradate,
né città, né
campagna,
forse soltanto
fabbriche e
centrali,
terreni bruciati
per l'eterno
Gli spruzzi verde
ramato
sul resto del
muretto,
li chiamate già
arcaici
W la classe del
'49,
e W Bartali
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep
1997 15:41:03 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: hi:
rInAlDo!!!glad r u there!
rinaldo i
book-marked it now i can get there whenever i want.
i still say the
shit-kicking list is a great name!!
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> Marie,
> the web site
is
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
> or
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
>
> i hope u are
well,
> Rinaldo.
> At 11.05
18/09/97 +0000, Marie wrote:
> >rinaldo:
i have lost the bookmark for your web site. could you or any
> >one else
getting spammed kindly send the address?
> >many
thanks
> >mc
> >
> >
To: Marie
Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
rInAlDo!!! r u there?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709181506.LAA24924@pike.sover.net>
References:
Marie,
the web site is
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
or
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
i hope u are
well,
Rinaldo.
At 11.05 18/09/97
+0000, Marie wrote:
>rinaldo: i
have lost the bookmark for your web site. could you or any
>one else
getting spammed kindly send the address?
>many thanks
>mc
>
>Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep
97 00:36:01 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE: La
Loca. A Beat Poetess.
Ciao Rinaldo
come sta?
grazie, grazie,
mille grazie - i had never heard of La Loca - she's
incredible. i will be looking for her poetry.
ciao,
sherri
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep
1997 22:59:57 -0700
To: Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>, Beach@qconline.com
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: Re:
Goodwill book run today
Cc:
race@midusa.net, dkpenn@oees.com, love_singing@msn.com
At 11:03 AM -0700
9/18/97, Diane Carter wrote:
> By then
hopefully Douglas will be back on
> board. But be careful and hold on because THE WIND
IS BLOWING in the
> next
chapter.
> DC
amazing how a
little rejection
returns the
personal dialogue
of world against
world
as I am as I am
too soon, too far
"no I don't
want to see you this weekend
you never give me
my personal space"
"so you just
want to see me 6 days out of 30?
can't we be in
the same space, doing different things?
be careful what
you ask for, you want to be alone?
you be alone,
I've killed everying of you that was in me
raged against the
machine, torn out all my hair
gone gonzo and hallelujah,
even tried to pee in the shower
no, I'm joking
about the last part, I need to see you
wont you to come
down this weekend"
"I don't
know what to say
you're making me
feel bad
I'm busy, I don't
socialize during the week"
"rearrange
your schedule
I want to be a
priority"
"no"
Do you see?
yes, I see.
Douglas [[listening and appreciating the music of
patti rothberg
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Dear_diary.html
--the wind is
blowing <<ewww
Return-Path:
<davison@tyco.net.au>
From:
"Robert Davison" <davison@tyco.net.au>
To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
List
Date: Fri, 19 Sep
1997 16:35:26 +0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
Hello Rinaldo,
Sure, go ahead an
include my name and comments on your page, if you like.
I'm very happy to
be associated with your project :-)
Regards
Robert
>i've placed
the list on the Web at the following
>address (with
photos of some beats)
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>Terry
Southern is already in the list,
>thanks for
your support, i love that
>friends
collaborate with opinions at
>the growing
of the list,
>have i your
permission to include yr
>name in
comments&credits?
>ciao da
Rinaldo.
>Venice-Mestre,Italy.
rinaldo@gpnet.it
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Robert Davison
<davison@tyco.net.au> wrote in article
<01bcbdf1$2a9977c0$81ee14cb@sirius.tyco.net.au>...
>
> What about
Terry Southern? Seams to me he was more of a "beat" than the
> likes of
Kenneth Patchen or Norman Mailer.
>
> Southern is
best known for his work on the screenplays, "Dr.
Strangelove,
> Or How I
Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb" and "Easy Rider,
but
> he's also an
accomplished writer of short stories, novels and errr...
> assorted
other things.
>
> Although not
really associated with the Beats in the mind of the
public,
> Southern
came to prominence in roughly the same era and often wrote
about
> similar
things: jazz musicians, hipsters, drugs etc. He worked with
William
> S. Burroughs
on the "Junky" film project, which never really got off
the
> ground...
>
> If you want
to check out Terry Southern, see if you can find his "Red
Dirt
> Marijuana
and Other Tastes" collection - some really great, witty stuff
in
> there...
To: "Robert
Davison" <davison@tyco.net.au>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Terry
Southern Re: Beat List
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709190834.QAA01843@kirk.tyco.net.au>
References:
Robert, god day,
thanks if u can
send to me, at yr convenience,
a Terry
Southern's piece i.e. a poem &/or an abstract
or something like
i can post on the web,
many thanks
again, yr name is in the comment&credits section,
Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
At 16.35 19/09/97
+0800, Robert wrote:
>Hello
Rinaldo,
>
>Sure, go
ahead an include my name and comments on your page, if you like.
>I'm very
happy to be associated with your project :-)
>
>Regards
>Robert
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep
97 20:15:39 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: scroll
art
ciao Rinaldo!!
Marie Countryman
tells me you have some great scroll art...
would you mind
sending some to
me. i would love to see it.
come sta, mi
amico?
pace,
sherri
To:
neato@pipeline.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Paul
Blackburn & the Black Mountain Group.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
neato,
thanks for the
comments, i appreciate a lot,
well, i agree
with you and add yr information
to Paul Blackburn
in the Beat Supernova,
i maintain the
link with Black Mountain Group
'cuz i remember
that Charles Olson, Robert Duncan,
Rebert Creeley,
Paul Blackburn and Denise Levertov,
was teachers in
the Black Mountain College and
collaborated in
two reviews "Origin" (1951-1956)
& "Black
Mountain Review" (1954-1957),
thanks again for
yr great support,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
rasa@gpnet.it
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Return-Path:
<neato@pipeline.com>
>Date: Thu, 18
Sep 1997 09:18:20 -0400 (EDT)
>From:
neato@pipeline.com
>To:
"Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
>Subject: Re:
part 1 of 2 - update 17 sep 97 Beat SuperNova
>Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
>Organization:
****
>
>(A copy of
this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.books.beatgeneration)
>
>In article
<01bcc3ae$48af38e0$LocalHost@rasa>, "Rinaldo Rasa"
><rasa@gpnet.it>
wrote:
>
>
>> Paul
Blackburn [Black Mountain School]
>
>neato says:
>poet paul blackburn(1926-1971) was not a black
mountain poet..he attended
>nyu and the
univ. of wisconsin...after spending sometime in europe, his
>main base of
operations was nyc(mcsorleys)...try his-in.on.or about the
>premises- for
some kerouac-esque notebook sketch poetry...perhaps more
>available are
selected poems from black sparrow
>cheers
>
> all my mistakes were once acts of genius
> neato@pipeline.com
>
>
To:
Seward23@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: hello
from James Grauerholz
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
James,
my best
greetings... i hope you are well...
thanks for yr
gentle words,
i've just correct
yr mistyped last name in the
Beat SuperNova,
the picture was send me by
Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
friends helps me,
and Patricia has also given me
the picture of
William in Texas, she helps me alot,
if you send me yr
picture you like better i'm
happy, can i
maintain both on the web?,
i ask you the
permission (i'll be happy)to add yr name to the
credits&comments
without the email address as you
don't want, let
me know,
the Beat
SuperNova is a labor of love, & thanks everybody,
tanti cari saluti
da
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
rinaldo@gpnet.it
rasa@gpnet.it
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Return-Path:
<Seward23@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 18
Sep 1997 16:22:27 -0400 (EDT)
>From:
Seward23@aol.com
>To:
rasa@gpnet.it
>Subject:
hello from James Grauerholz
>
>hi Rinaldo,
>
>thanks for
listing me in your Beats names (and please don't circulate my
>email address
now) ... I am honored. But my last name
is GRAUERHOLZ, you
>have spelled
it Gauerholz. Also, where did you get
that hideous picture of
>me? Gee, that is really old - would you like a
better one?
>
>keep the
faith,
>James G.
>
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep
97 23:45:06 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Stef
" <Ad_Libitum@classic.msn.com>, "HJW II "
<ArchibaldLeach@classic.msn.com>,
"Stuart Crosby" <BRAVES10@classic.msn.com>,
"Ron Vassel"
<BlizzardKing@classic.msn.com>, "Cari Who ELSE????"
<CittiGirl@classic.msn.com>, "db
" <Dee-Bee@classic.msn.com>, "Homebrook "
<Homebrook@classic.msn.com>,
"Jason Tinling" <JTinlng@classic.msn.com>, "Kevin
Mathers"
<KEVMATH@classic.msn.com>, "Kel Rayner"
<Manatbar@classic.msn.com>,
"the little people "
<MarmaladeSkies@classic.msn.com>, "Kent "
<NoixDeGolf@classic.msn.com>, "Jim
B" <PBRUEGEL@classic.msn.com>, "Blair "
<Reepoo@classic.msn.com>, "Sharon
" <SopAndBass@classic.msn.com>, "Tom Gummo"
<TGUMMO@classic.msn.com>,
"tim/reba" <the_saluki_experience@classic.msn.com>,
"Life is a sick joke and I'm the
punchline" <The_Boogey_Man@classic.msn.com>,
"Mark "
<Vox_Amicus@classic.msn.com>, "e.e. cummings"
<What-is_death@classic.msn.com>,
"Tanya Ceccatto"
<_AngelBaby@classic.msn.com>, "S
Johnson" <doc11@classic.msn.com>, "Drew
Eskenazi" <drewesk@classic.msn.com>,
"Robert Lear"
<king_lear1@classic.msn.com>, "x
" <king_lear1@classic.msn.com>, "PAUL
KOLJESKI"
<koljeski@classic.msn.com>, "Silver Surfer"
<mad-chatter@classic.msn.com>,
"david simoni" <oak123@classic.msn.com>, "Kash
Philips "
<philkash@classic.msn.com>, "Rico Mariani"
<ricom_ms@classic.msn.com>,
"Robert Eback" <rleback@classic.msn.com>, "Stephen
Baldwin"
<sabaldwin@classic.msn.com>, "anniepoo" <annh@ccrtc.com>,
"Doug Penn"
<dkpenn@oees.com>,
"BigDaddyRico" <Engelsguy@aol.com>, "Joe Locey"
<JoePlaceb0@aol.com>, "S. Coart
Johnson" <scoart@mindspring.com>, "cj"
<sjohn111@aol.com>, CVEditions@aol.com,
"MATT HANNAN" <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>,
THEBODYIS1@aol.com, "runner"
<babu@electriciti.com>, "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>, "Marie
Countryman" <country@SOVER.NET>, "Diane Carter"
<dcarter@together.net>, "jo
grant" <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>, "Patricia Elliott"
<pelliott@sunflower.com>, "RACE
---" <race@MIDUSA.NET>, "Rinaldo Rasa"
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>, "James
Stauffer" <stauffer@pacbell.net>, "Ricardo V.
Cottrell" <unir1@compuserve.com>
Subject: FW: ha
ha's
pretty funny :)
----------
From: Jamey Sims
Sent: Friday, September 19, 1997 4:23 PM
To: 'sherry'; 'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky'; 'Sherri';
'Stella'; 'Jennifer';
'Missy'; 'David
Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Gary'; 'Lisa & Kevin'; 'kevey'; 'Back
Cracker';
'monty'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; 'Shari & Troy'
Subject: ha ha's
PUNISHMENT!
A young boy was
playing in the backyard when his father saw him stepping on
flowers and
pulling out plants..
"Just for
that," he said. "you don't get anything made out of flour for a
week!".
The boy was upset
and walked away. A short while later, the father looked
through the
window and saw the boy hitting butterflies with his tennis racquet
in the garden. He
went running outside and yelled, "Just for that, you naughty
boy, you don't
get any butter for one month!"
Later that day,
the boy's mother came home in a really bad mood and as soon as
she saw a couple
of cockroaches in the kitchen, she started stepping on
them.The young
lad looked up at his father and whispered, "Well, are you going
to tell her or
will I?"
The Little Red
Man
There once was a little pink lady. She had a little pink house and
a little pink
dress and a little pink dog. This lady sold avon.
One day the lady was walking down a street
selling her avon when
she came across a
little red house. She pressed the
doorbell.
In this little red house lived a little red
man. He was having a
bath in his
little red bathtub when he heard his little red doorbell ring.
"There goes my doorbell!" he said
to himself as he clambered out
of his little red
bath. He grabbed a little red towel and
put it around
his waist and
walked down his little red stairs to his little red door.
But, when he opened the door, his little red
towel slipped and fell
off. The little pink lady screamed and ran out
across the street. A car
coming down the
road hit her and she died.
Moral: Never
cross the street when the little red man is flashing.
Return-Path:
<Seward23@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep
1997 02:30:02 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Seward23@aol.com
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
hello from James Grauerholz
Rinaldo,
Patricia Elliott
is a dear friend of mine, and yes you can maintain her
picture of me - I
was just pretending vanity - so you shouldn't include my
email to you, on
supernova, it's just a friendly way of privately saying Hi -
but I would send
you another picture if I have your tree-mail address - your
list is important
cari saluti
James
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Hi
everyone! Re: scroll art
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199709192014310887@classic.msn.com>
References:
At 20.15 19/09/97
UT, Sherri wrote:
>ciao
Rinaldo!!
>
>Marie
Countryman tells me you have some great scroll art... would you mind
>sending some
to me. i would love to see it.
>
>come sta, mi
amico?
>
>pace,
>sherri
>
>
>
Sherri,
i send the art, i
think angel Marie means this,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
From:
JCage433@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 12:45:56 -0400 (EDT)
To:
silence@bga.com
Subject: Hi
everyone!
Sender:
owner-silence@lists.realtime.net
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyo n e
!
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi every o n
e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o n
e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi ever y o
n e !
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi eve r y
o n e
!
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi ev e r
y o n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi e v e
r y o
n e !
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
H i e
v e r
y o n
e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v e
r y o
n e !
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H
i e v
e r y
o n e
!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e
v e r
y o n
e !
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v
e r y
o n e
!
Hi e v e
r y o
n e !
Hi e v e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e
r y o
n e !
Hi ev e r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r
y o n
e !
Hi eve r y o
n e !
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y
o n e
!
Hi ever y o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o
n e !
Hi every o n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n
e !
Hi everyo n e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e
!
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyon e !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone !
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi
everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!!
Hi everyone!!!
Hi everyone!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!!
Hi
everyone!!!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!!
Hi everyone!!!!
Hi everyone!!!
Hi everyone!!
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
H
H
Hi
Hi
Hi e
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi e
Hi
Hi
H
H
H
Hi
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone
Hi everyon
Hi everyo
Hi every
Hi ever
Hi eve
Hi ev
Hi e
Hi
H
Hi
Hi e
Hi ev
Hi eve
Hi ever
Hi every
Hi everyo
Hi everyon
Hi everyone
Hi everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v e ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y o ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e r
y o n
e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e !
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
n e!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y
o ne!
H i
e v e
r y o
ne!
H i
e v e
r y o ne!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r y one!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
r yone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e
ryone!
H i
e v e ryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e v eryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i
e veryone!
H i everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i
everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
H i everyone!
Hi everyone!
To:
"Dufour" <dufour@ulisse.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jacopo
Terenzio.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709181401.PAA11024@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
Francesco,
grazie per le poesie da te inviatemi,
questa e' molto bella ed evocativa,
Rinaldo.
>Voi
>
>Degradandovi
mi degradate,
>né città, né
campagna,
>forse
soltanto
>fabbriche e
centrali,
>terreni
bruciati per l'eterno
>Gli spruzzi
verde ramato
>sul resto del
muretto,
>li chiamate
già arcaici
>W la classe
del '49,
>e W Bartali
To:
Seward23@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
hello from James Grauerholz
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970920023001_-495974609@emout14.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 02.30 20/09/97
-0400, James wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>Patricia
Elliott is a dear friend of mine, and yes you can maintain her
>picture of me
- I was just pretending vanity - so you shouldn't include my
>email to you,
on supernova, it's just a friendly way of privately saying Hi -
>but I would
send you another picture if I have your tree-mail address - your
>list is
important
>
>cari saluti
>James
>
James,
again thanks for
yr gentle words, at yr convenience you
can send via
email another pic at the following addresses
rasa@gpnet.it
or
rinaldo@gpnet.it
or both (if you
like)
tanti cari
saluti,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,
Italy.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep
97 17:09:05 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE: Hi
everyone! Re: scroll art
Rinaldo,
very fun, do you
do alot of this? how are things in
Italia these days? are
you still writing
poetry?
ciao,
sherri
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: howdy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199709201708100053@classic.msn.com>
References:
At 17.09 20/09/97
UT, Sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>very fun, do
you do alot of this? how are things in
Italia these days? are
>you still writing
poetry?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
at the moment,
sherri, i find alot of fun to
labor on tha web.
in italy today toooomuch
flags. cari
saluti da rinaldo. Return-Path: <always@lucky.asiainvestments.com.au>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep
1997 20:23:18 +1000
From: mail only
account <always@lucky.asiainvestments.com.au>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Need an
Overseas holiday?
FREE Scratch 'n
'Win Giveaway
For a limited
time only - receive one FREE Australian
Instant Scratch
'n Win Ticket (win up to AU $250,000
instantly) with
every Ticket Ordered.
Preview your
Australian Prize Home and enter your
chance in our
latest Lottery.
Well, that's just
what you will need should you be one
of the lucky
Prize Winners in our fantastic lottery.
Our Lottery has:
* magnificent prizes
* realistic winning chances
* Government supervision
* great odds & lump sum payment
* over 30,000 winners to date
Visit us now
at http://www.grandlottery.com
and you could be
the next lucky winner!
To:
randyr@southeast.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
update 21sep97 BeatSupernova (Beat:The List)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709202234.SAA21866@mailhub.southeast.net>
References:
randy, thanks
alot for the support, i've add yr name to
credits&comment
section in the supernova, cari saluti da rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
-*-
At 18.40 20/09/97
+0000, randy wrote:
>rinaldo: you
read my thoughts competly! just today while i was mowing
>the lawn
(when i do my real thinking) i thought
about how cool it
>would be to
have a little explanation about each beat on your list.
>although you
did have their alias's earlier, thanks anyway for
>keeping up
such a cool list.
>randy
Return-Path:
<mike@buchenroth.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep
1997 00:04:30 -0700
From:
"Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@buchenroth.com>
Reply-To:
mike@buchenroth.com
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
To:
beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu
CC:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
Janine Pommy Vega.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> Which Side
Are You On? by Janine
Pommy Vega
***
To view a photo
of Janine Pommy Vega, Josh Norton, Allen Ginsberg,
Elizabeth
Plymell, and Pamela Beach Plymell seated at the Plymell's
dining room table
in Cherry Valley, NY go to
http://www.buchenroth.com/gnsbpomy.jpg
To:
mike@buchenroth.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Janine Pommy Vega.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3426187E.2226@buchenroth.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970921233030.0070ad04@pop.gpnet.it>
mike thanks a
lot, i'll have yr permission to add
yr name to
credits&comments in the supernova?
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
let me know,
saluti,
rinaldo.
At 00.04 22/09/97
-0700, you wrote:
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>> Which
Side Are You On? by
Janine Pommy Vega
>***
>To view a
photo of Janine Pommy Vega, Josh Norton, Allen Ginsberg,
>Elizabeth
Plymell, and Pamela Beach Plymell seated at the Plymell's
>dining room
table in Cherry Valley, NY go to
>
>http://www.buchenroth.com/gnsbpomy.jpg
>
>Return-Path:
<mike@buchenroth.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep
1997 19:23:57 -0700
From:
"Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@buchenroth.com>
Reply-To:
mike@buchenroth.com
Organization:
Buchenroth Publishing Company
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Janine Pommy Vega.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> mike thanks
a lot, i'll have yr permission to add
> yr name to
credits&comments in the supernova?
> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
> let me know,
***
Thank you. I am
honored that you ask. Please feel free to include me in
"Beat
SuperNova."
***
I have another
photo of Janine Pommy Vega that Charles Plymell sent me
that Ralph Ackerman gave him at:
***
http://www.buchenroth.com/still6.jpg
***
And a group of
thumbnail images of some Beats more recent at:
***
http://www.buchenroth.com/stillstart.html
***
Thanks again,
Mike
Once you scroll
through all the images and have them in your cache,
they'll push/play
much faster.
To:
mike@buchenroth.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Janine Pommy Vega.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3427283D.2E81@buchenroth.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970921233030.0070ad04@pop.gpnet.it> <3.0.1.32.19970922183858.006a5ae0@pop.gpnet.it>
At 19.23 22/09/97
-0700,
"Michael L.
Buchenroth" <mike@buchenroth.com> wrote:
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> mike
thanks a lot, i'll have yr permission to add
>> yr name
to credits&comments in the supernova?
>>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>> let me
know,
>***
>Thank you. I
am honored that you ask. Please feel free to include me in
>"Beat
SuperNova."
>***
>I have
another photo of Janine Pommy Vega that Charles Plymell sent me
>that Ralph Ackerman gave him at:
>***
>http://www.buchenroth.com/still6.jpg
>***
>And a group
of thumbnail images of some Beats more recent at:
>***
>http://www.buchenroth.com/stillstart.html
>***
>Thanks again,
>Mike
>Once you
scroll through all the images and have them in your cache,
>they'll
push/play much faster.
>
Mike,
at the moment
i've upgraded the www page at
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
added Janine
Pommy Vega pic,
please check it
& let me know yr thoughts,
i'm happy when
you send me other pictures i can add
to the labor who
is a great moment, i think, for the
whole beat
friends who support my html coding of the
information,
again thanks i'm
waiting for pictures,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.To: amajo3@HUDSONET.COM
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Luois
Zukofsky info need
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Hello John, good
day, excuse me if i
post you
privately,
having begun a
beat list on the web
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
(please check it
at yr convenience)
i've interested
further information
about Luois
Zukofsky, you quoted,
i'm grateful to
you if tell me something
'bout Luois
Zukofsky (memories, picture),
thanks alot in
advance,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
John Amato wrote:
Their children
had to get jobs because 'they didn't believe in SantaClaus.'
http:web.hudsonet.com/~amajo3
--Luois Zukofsky
**-**-**-**-**-**-
To: jag@RAHUL.NET
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jack
Micheline info need
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Jim Gardner
<jag@RAHUL.NET> wrote:
Jack Micheline,
who I posted about several weeks ago, is a marvelous
painter. Perhaps
a better painter than poet though that's hard to say
when you actually
hear his live cadence, which arguably makes his simple
elegaic lyrics
more profound than they otherwise seem.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Hello Jim, good
day, excuse me if i
post you
privately,
having begun a
beat list on the web
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
(please check it
at yr convenience)
i've interested
further information
about Jack
Micheline, you mentioned above,
i'm grateful to
you if tell me something
'bout Jack
Micheline(memories, picture),
thanks alot in
advance,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
Return-Path:
<jag@rahul.net>
X-Sender:
jag@rahul.net
Date: Tue, 23 Sep
1997 10:57:36 -0700
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Jim Gardner
<jag@rahul.net>
Subject: Re: Jack
Micheline info need
Hey Rinaldo:
Yes, I saw Jack
perform celebrating the release
of
"sixty-seven poems for downtrodden saints"
recently at Adobe
Books on 16th St in SF (about
40 meters from my
place) performing many of
his classics. I
wrote up some posts to
bohemian where
you can get much info out of the archives.
You can even rely
on me to revise those for an
article if you'd
like.
Jack lives in the
Mission neighborhood of San Francisco,
CA. There's a
helpful review of the show printed in a
neighborhood
newspaper called "New Mission News." I can
send that if
you'd like.
Jack has a new
book entitled 'sixty-seven poems
for downtrodden
saints." You might want to
obtain a copy.
Let me know if I can ship it to
you, for I would
be more than glad.
It has some
biographical data in it you might be
able to adapt.
Here are some essential facts from that
bio:
"Jack
Micheline, nee Harvey Martin Silver, was
born on November
6, 1929 in the East Bronx of
New York City, of
Russian-Romanian Jewish ancestry.
He attended
various schools in New York, including
P.S.47, 102,
James Monroe High School and Theodore
Roosevelt High
School. During 1947-8, M. served in
the U.S. Army
Medical Cors, and for part of that
period was
stationed at Fort Sam Houston, Texas.
His first
published poem, "Carnival in Pardeesville,"
appeared in the
American Friends Service Committee
Newsletter in
Wautoma, WI, where he worked building
latrines..."
pg i, sixty-seven poems..
"M. began
painting in earnest, working primarily with
gouache in a self-taught or primitive style,
during\
a trip to Mexico City financed by Franz Kline
in 1960.
Poems by M. were
included in two early beat anthologies
of the period,
including The Beats (Greenwich, CT, Gold
Medal Books,
1960), edited by Seymour Krim; and The Beat
Scene (NY,
Corinth Books, 1960), edited by Elias Wilentz.
In 1962, his
second book of poems, I Kiss Angels, was pub'd
by Interim
Books." pp i-ii, sixty-seven poems
"Micheline's
collected poems were published in _North of
Manhattan,
Collected Poems, Ballads and Songs: 1954-75_
(South San
Francisco: ManRoot, 1976)." p iii, sixty-seven poems
"In 1992,
M.'s poem "Poet of the Streets" was
included in _The
Portable Beat Reader" pub'd by
Viking Penguin
and edited by Ann Charters." p v, sixty-seven poems
These days Jack
is a bit cantankerous, needs
glasses. Jack is
a Mission neighborhood (named for
nearby Mission
Dolores, SF's oldest building, if one
is familiar with
Hitchcock's masterpiece Vertigo, this
old Spanish
Mission is the location of the cemetery
where the
fictional Carlotta Valdes is buried) staple,
The 16th St.
corridor of the inner Mission, has been
called by the San
Francisco Chronicle, somewhat
typically,
"The North Beach of the 90s."
In many ways that
title matches.
..hope some of
this helps
Jim
At 06:46 PM
9/23/97 +0200, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>Jim Gardner
<jag@RAHUL.NET> wrote:
>Jack
Micheline, who I posted about several weeks ago, is a marvelous
>painter.
Perhaps a better painter than poet though that's hard to say
>when you
actually hear his live cadence, which arguably makes his simple
>elegaic
lyrics more profound than they otherwise seem.
>
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Hello Jim,
good day, excuse me if i
>post you
privately,
>
>having begun
a beat list on the web
>http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>(please check
it at yr convenience)
>
>i've
interested further information
>about Jack
Micheline, you mentioned above,
>i'm grateful
to you if tell me something
>'bout Jack
Micheline(memories, picture),
>
>thanks alot
in advance,
>Rinaldo.
>Venice-Mestre,Italy.
>
>
>
Return-Path:
<Marioka7@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep
1997 14:21:04 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Marioka7@aol.com
To: babu@electriciti.com,
race@midusa.net, bocelts@scsn.net,
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca,
letabor@cruzio.com, CVEditions@aol.com,
Tread37@aol.com,
MATT.HANNAN@otc.usoc.cchub.com, SSASN@aol.com,
jgrant@bookzen.com, kenster@mit.edu,
love_singing@msn.com,
rinaldo@gpnet.it, stauffer@pacbell.net,
cosmicat@erols.com,
BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu,
carl@world.std.com, MagenDror@aol.com,
foe@total.net
Subject:
goodbye....sniff
So I'm leaving
tomorrow for Thailand, via San Francisco and Hong Kong. I
will miss all my
e-mail friends I have been corresponding with these past few
months. Although I'm teaching at a technical college,
somehow they manage
not to have the
Internet there. I know I promised a
whole lot of people a
zine: don't
worry, I'm taking all your stuff with me.
Maybe I'll do some
funky Thai
bookbinding. Please send me your snail
address as soon as
possible, if you
want to stay in touch.
Good luck to all
of you in your literary/ artistic pursuits.
As for me, when
I get back from
Thailand I'm going to get an MFA in computer animation,
video, and music
(it's an integrated program at Rensselaer).
And I'm gonna
keep writing
too. Who knows, it may lead to
something.
well, all that's
left to say is goodbye! Maybe some of
you will still be
here when i get
back. Til then, take care y'all.
----------------maya--------------
ps: Carl, thanks
for the tape! I'm taking it with me! Good luck with your
band.
*sniff*
To:
mapaul@PIPELINE.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: "On
the Road" ("Sulla strada") Cover italian poket edition 1967.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\strada67.jpg;
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970923112226.0069d710@pop.pipeline.com>
References:
At 07.22 23/09/97
-0400,
"Paul A.
Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM> wrote:
>Hi Rinaldo, I
am posting a different cover each month. If you have one I
>will use it
for November but will probably post it sooner. You can send it
>as an
attachment to this address. Thanks...you will see it posted at The
>Kerouac
Quarterly Web Page...Paul...
>
>
Paul,
this cover is the
original picture that 30 years ago
went out in
pocket edition of Jack Kerouac's "On the Road" translated
in italian
language by Magda de Cristofaro and prefaced by Fernanda
Pivano,
let me know if
the quality of the image is satisfactory,
andyour comment,
it would be nice
to have alot of cover from different
countries were
OTR was published,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
To: Jim Gardner
<jag@rahul.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Jack
Micheline info need
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970923175736.00711ba4@rahul.net>
References:
Jim,
thanks a lot for
the execellent information,
have i the
permission to include yr name
in the
credits&comment of the Beat SuperNova?
let me know,
saluti cari,
Rinaldo.
venice-mestre,italy
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htmReturn-Path:
<amajo3@hudsonet.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep
1997 13:56:22 +0200 (MET DST)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: John Amato
<amajo3@hudsonet.com>
Subject: Re:
Luois Zukofsky info need
<x-rich>Rinnie,
You have quite a
list, i'll tell 'ya alright....
about Louis
Zukofsky, I'm reading A and also have a companion
piece to it, i
forget by who, tonite i'll check it for you...
....i have a poem
for you if you'd like to post it on your site:
--------------------
<fontfamily><param>Times</param><bigger><bigger>
Obit. for Poet
(too late to
Spell Czech)
Made of paradises extra-vagrant,
tho the weight of
your shadow is still
part of time ...
I see it
tied to the sky -
night tossing, loosing
charring ropes
... logos of Mad. Ave like long black silky
roads thru her
mourning sex drive - he roars to her.
dead poets. dew you undress the rose
picking with two hands yore nose
red-healed stems, ready for prose beds.
without radiation
I cannot believe you renewed the eath's scorched
mind
without tradition
the new or nude dies in air-unconditioned for
sunrises, ad
vents
of neon-poets on
unfocused horizon.
You timed the
contractions between our cold-aged birth
and hear bees for
their loyal non-abandon. when you faced
the wind naked,
taut amphibrachs: remember
how you sharing
love
learnt us in
november beds
just not for
taking
But giving head to the sky is
our ego on its back asking to please
pleas me too,
prays you tall river.
each frays ewe
rote wood be maid to wine
your spine of
this book from epicenter you hallowed mine
to voluminous
health,
I, column, I in
rose and brae hillsides, slopes of your wealth
live in roped
pearls, roped pearls sew
with knot
bringing a tier glad den eye trust too bee a jewel, I know
dead poets who
fumed, next doors
on uni-verse in
the daily motion unwritten
in sidereal time
underwears about stellar web storm,
SAME OLD PRESS
RELEASE:
Tie-Died, Wash.,
Aug. '69.
the mini-lives move along the super-dead,
right the Modern Reader in a prose-down,
tie-
breaker slam dunk poet-tree jam, free the
poets
from fiscal misses, pick their pockets
with thank
you very, very much and boca raton
book-of-the-
month club teas and drunken verses in the
genus
of microphoney - the first naked lady in
history
of podium domes is agent who lost half a
day's
pay purrs you should be proud witch won
hue red
with propensity for head in juries
struggling
for their lawn chairs . . .
DEAD OR MISSING.
Forced into the carnivore guild
by the hominids
in the literary cradle of humanity, took
in by the toothy
plains of the hungry female, panthera
of his instincts,
when retirement
came like a helmet early in your twenties
traveling in
preventive alleys, stoned circuitry full
of spider poems
full on Dutch courage with eyes
you wished in the
front of your head
to see where you
bent - look
where you turn
from kings,
give frog
wings
trees.
you've seen our
dreams
in mornings women
master
in great camps of
sleep
. . . seen
Jupiter's
sixteen-mooned
icy juggernauts
chronicling the pockmarked
and ruthlessly
sacrificed stern of our milky-eyed galaxy,
weighed our
petulant gravity and soul-are systems you salvoed
thru our
atmosphere in degrees
webs spread out
in conditional wavelenghts
thru
pandemic conjunctions
and vast
liguids of
magnetic earth, rolled
with monuments
America
from
Revolutionary to Shiloh
down Nam's
grate flare of torn bodies, absolutely
horrible
for 15 minutes. open
every
page your
headache ends humanity at bay, hour ghosts
in deign jurist
prudence - anonymity
of one's soul in
the air is change of tasteless
mouths, a sexless
taste of an era, fisted
by the aids of
peoples and the woman
called miss stake
who held you in your heart ... said
their are
know faults with
in my cite, of nun eye am a ware...
so now ewe can
sea why aye too prays your finial head
& foot my
book rests between by righting watt I want
too pleas be four
I brake into averse. I ran this poem threw you,
dead wanted for
murderous polish in gold
great wait. in no
scent and free from wind
at last - you got
a chest for life.
</bigger></bigger></fontfamily>
ja
</x-rich>
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep
1997 08:20:42 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: beat
images identity
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> friends,
> i've post on
the web two photos of beats that i can't
> recognize
the site is
>
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatpic.htm
>
> someone has
a suggestion?
> thanks for
the help,
> cari saluti,
> Rinaldo.
Rinaldo--
What is the
provenance of the first picture? I don't
have a clue, but
of course there
were a lot of now nameless beatnicks,
Photo no 2 beyone
AG and Corso I
have no idea.
James
Return-Path:
<jag@rahul.net>
X-Sender:
jag@rahul.net
Date: Wed, 24 Sep
1997 09:22:33 -0700
To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Jim Gardner
<jag@rahul.net>
Subject: Re: Jack
Micheline info need
At 11:18 AM
9/24/97 +0200, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>Jim,
>thanks a lot
for the execellent information,
>
>have i the
permission to include yr name
>in the credits&comment
of the Beat SuperNova?
>let me know,
>saluti cari,
>Rinaldo.
>venice-mestre,italy
>http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>
Yes, you can use
my comments. Most of what I sent was directly from his book as quoted, so that
should be noted where possible.
Thanks for
asking. Although Jack's poems seem simplistic
to some persons
I've shared them with, to hear them performed
one realizes a
great spirit is and was behind them.
J.
To: John Amato
<amajo3@hudsonet.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: yr poem
Re: Luois Zukofsky info need
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03020901b04e77ee4469@[172.20.15.94]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970923184450.006895f8@pop.gpnet.it>
At 13.56 24/09/97
+0200,
John Amato
<amajo3@hudsonet.com> wrote:
>Rinnie,
>
>You have
quite a list, i'll tell 'ya alright....
>about Louis
Zukofsky, I'm reading A and also have a companion
>piece to it,
i forget by who, tonite i'll check it for you...
>
>....i have a
poem for you if you'd like to post it on your site:
>
>--------------------
> Obit. for
Poet
>(too late to
Spell Czech)
[snipped for
brevity]
>ja
>
John,
wonderful poem
Obit. for Poet, for sure i post it on the web in the
Beat SuperNova
[new north american poetry] section where
already she is
Marie Countryman, thanks for yr support, if you
wish send me a
little bio 'bout you.
at yr convenience
tell something about Louis Zukofsky for
the supernova
beat list.
cari saluti,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: missing
a beat? Re: beat images identity
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34292FCA.55BF@pacbell.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970924111925.0070a6c4@pop.gpnet.it>
At 08.20 24/09/97
-0700,
James Stauffer
<stauffer@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> friends,
>> i've
post on the web two photos of beats that i can't
>>
recognize the site is
>>
>>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatpic.htm
>>
>> someone
has a suggestion?
>> thanks
for the help,
>> cari
saluti,
>> Rinaldo.
>
>
>Rinaldo--
>
>What is the
provenance of the first picture? I don't
have a clue, but
>of course
there were a lot of now nameless beatnicks,
Photo no 2 beyone
>AG and Corso
I have no idea.
>
>James
>
James,
thanks for yr
help, i've add to the Beat SuperNova a new link
called [nameless
beatnicks], call me wrong but i've a feel with the
missing beat,
the photo #1 from
a magazine is quoted as group photo of main
beat
personalities.
now i'm scanning
alot of photo in magazine newspaper and others
collected by
myself during many years,
where i can find
beat connections and the unknown i post for a
while a photo on
the web asking help from the friends,
cari saluti,
Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
[items updated
Jack Micheline, Janine Pommy Vega, Alan Watts.]
To: Jim Gardner
<jag@rahul.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jack
Micheline supernova updated
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970923175736.00711ba4@rahul.net>
References:
Jim,
i've added some
of your comment to Micheline's item
in the beat
supernova web page,
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
tell me
something,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
To: Jim Gardner
<jag@rahul.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Jack
Micheline info need
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970924162233.00706374@rahul.net>
References:
At 09.22 24/09/97
-0700, Jim wrote:
>At 11:18 AM
9/24/97 +0200, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>>Jim,
>>thanks a
lot for the execellent information,
>>
>>have i
the permission to include yr name
>>in the
credits&comment of the Beat SuperNova?
>>let me
know,
>>saluti
cari,
>>Rinaldo.
>>venice-mestre,italy
>>http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>>
>
>
>Yes, you can
use my comments. Most of what I sent was directly from his book as quoted, so
that should be noted where possible.
>
>Thanks for
asking. Although Jack's poems seem simplistic
>to some
persons I've shared them with, to hear them performed
>one realizes
a great spirit is and was behind them.
>
>J.
>
Jim,
sinc i've just
sent you a message,
ciao,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
To:
<Mapaul@pipeline.com>
Cc:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: sulla
strada cover
Date: Wed, 24 Sep
1997 20:18:12 +0200
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
hello paul,
i've sent you the
cover of "sulla strada"
italian edition,
tell me something,
ciao,
Rinaldo.
rasa@gpnet.it
venice-mestre,italy.
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep
1997 15:20:06 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
missing a beat? Re: beat images identity
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> At 08.20
24/09/97 -0700,
> James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
> >>
> >>
friends,
> >>
i've post on the web two photos of beats that i can't
> >>
recognize the site is
> >>
> >>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatpic.htm
> >>
> >>
someone has a suggestion?
> >>
thanks for the help,
> >>
cari saluti,
> >>
Rinaldo.
> >
> >
>
>Rinaldo--
> >
> >What is
the provenance of the first picture? I
don't have a clue, but
> >of
course there were a lot of now nameless beatnicks, Photo no 2 beyone
> >AG and
Corso I have no idea.
> >
> >James
> >
>
> James,
>
> thanks for
yr help, i've add to the Beat SuperNova a new link
> called
[nameless beatnicks], call me wrong but i've a feel with the
> missing
beat,
>
> the photo #1
from a magazine is quoted as group photo of main
> beat
personalities.
>
> now i'm
scanning alot of photo in magazine newspaper and others
> collected by
myself during many years,
>
> where i can
find beat connections and the unknown i post for a
> while a
photo on the web asking help from the friends,
>
Should be alot of
fun, perhaps we can erect a tomb for the Unknown
Beatnik--people
could leave old Charlie Parker records, bongos, etc.
> cari saluti,
> Rinaldo.
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
> [items
updated Jack Micheline, Janine Pommy Vega, Alan Watts.]
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep
97 15:49:25 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Stef
" <Ad_Libitum@classic.msn.com>, "HJW II "
<ArchibaldLeach@classic.msn.com>,
"Stuart Crosby" <BRAVES10@classic.msn.com>,
"Ron Vassel" <BlizzardKing@classic.msn.com>,
"Cari Who ELSE????"
<CittiGirl@classic.msn.com>, "db
" <Dee-Bee@classic.msn.com>, "Homebrook "
<Homebrook@classic.msn.com>,
"Jason Tinling" <JTinlng@classic.msn.com>, "Kevin
Mathers"
<KEVMATH@classic.msn.com>, "Kel Rayner" <Manatbar@classic.msn.com>,
"the little people "
<MarmaladeSkies@classic.msn.com>, "Kent "
<NoixDeGolf@classic.msn.com>, "Jim
B" <PBRUEGEL@classic.msn.com>, "Ask and I
might tell you"
<Peaceful-Warrior2@classic.msn.com>, "Blair "
<Reepoo@classic.msn.com>, "Sharon
" <SopAndBass@classic.msn.com>, "Tom Gummo"
<TGUMMO@classic.msn.com>,
"tim/reba" <the_saluki_experience@classic.msn.com>,
"Life is a sick joke and I'm the
punchline" <The_Boogey_Man@classic.msn.com>,
"rico "
<UNIR1@classic.msn.com>, "Mark "
<Vox_Amicus@classic.msn.com>, "e.e.
cummings"
<What-is_death@classic.msn.com>, "Tanya Ceccatto"
<_AngelBaby@classic.msn.com>, "S
Johnson" <doc11@classic.msn.com>, "Drew
Eskenazi"
<drewesk@classic.msn.com>, "Robert Lear"
<king_lear1@classic.msn.com>,
"Silver Surfer" <mad-chatter@classic.msn.com>,
"david simoni"
<oak123@classic.msn.com>, "Kash Philips "
<philkash@classic.msn.com>, "Rico
Mariani" <ricom_ms@classic.msn.com>, "Robert
Eback" <rleback@classic.msn.com>,
"Stephen Baldwin"
<sabaldwin@classic.msn.com>,
"anniepoo" <annh@ccrtc.com>, "Doug Penn"
<dkpenn@oees.com>,
"BigDaddyRico" <Engelsguy@aol.com>, "Joe Locey"
<JoePlaceb0@aol.com>,
CVEditions@aol.com, "MATT HANNAN"
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>, "Arthur
Nusbaum" <SSASN@AOL.COM>, THEBODYIS1@aol.com,
"runner"
<babu@electriciti.com>, beach@qconline.com, "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>, "Marie
Countryman" <country@SOVER.NET>, "jo grant"
<jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>, "Donald B.
Green" <nycdbg@bellatlantic.net>, "RACE ---"
<race@MIDUSA.NET>, "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>, "James Stauffer"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Subject: FW:
Philosophy from the road
----------
From: Jamey Sims
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 1997 8:22 AM
To: 'sherry'; 'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky';
'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer';
'Missy';
'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie & Robert'; 'Gary'; 'Brandon Wescott'; 'Lisa &
Kevin'; 'kevey';
'Back Cracker'; 'monty'; 'Quentin'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee';
'bogie'; 'Tammy';
'Shari & Troy'
Subject: Philosophy from the road
BUMPER STICKERS
SIGHTED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
"Hung like
Einstein, Smart as a horse"
"The gene
pool could use a little chlorine."
"I love
cats...they taste just like chicken"
"Laugh alone
and the world thinks you're an idiot."
"Jack Kevorkian
for White House Physician"
"I want to
die in my sleep like my grandfather....
Not screaming and
yelling like the passengers in his car...."
"Your kid
may be an honor student but you're still an IDIOT!"
"If we
aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?"
"Forget
about World Peace.....Visualize Using Your Turn Signal!"
"He who
laughs last thinks slowest"
"Very funny,
Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."
"i souport
publik edekasion"
"We are
Microsoft. Resistance Is Futile. You Will Be Assimilated."
"Ever stop
to think, and forget to start again?"
"Auntie
Em: Hate you, Hate Kansas, Taking the
dog. -Dorothy."
"All
generalizations are false."
"Change is
inevitable, except from a vending machine."
"Time is
what keeps everything from happening at once."
"Out of my
mind. Back in five minutes."
Seen on an old,
beat-up car: "This is not an abandoned vehicle."
"Born Free.
. . . .Taxed to Death"
"Cover
me. I'm changing lanes."
"As long as
there are tests, there will be prayer in public schools"
"The more
people I meet, the more I like my dog."
"Sometimes I
wake up grumpy; Other times I let her sleep"
"All men are
Idiots, and I married their King!"
"Work is for
people who don't know how to fish"
"Montana ---
At least our cows are sane!"
"I didn't
fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian."
"Women who
seek to be equal to men lack ambition."
"It's as BAD
as you think, and they ARE out to get you."
"If you
don't like the news, go out and make some."
"I Brake For
No Apparent Reason."
"When you do
a good deed, get a receipt, in case heaven is like the IRS."
"Sorry, I
don't date outside my species."
"I may be
fat, but you're ugly - I can lose weight!"
"No Radio -
Already Stolen"
"Real women
don't have hot flashes, they have power surges."
"I took an
IQ test and the results were negative."
"When
there's a will, I want to be in it!"
"Okay, who
stopped the payment on my reality check?"
"Few women
admit their age, Few men act it! "
"I don't
suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
"Hard work
has a future payoff. Laziness pays off
NOW!"
"Tell me to
'Stuff It' - I'm a taxidermist."
"IRS: We've
got what it takes to take what you have got. "
"Time is the
best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all it's students!"
"It's lonely
at the top, but you eat better."
"According
to my calculations the problem doesn't exist."
"Pride is
what we have. Vanity is what others
have."
"A bartender
is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory."
"How Can I
Miss You if You Won't Go Away?"
Seen on a woman's
car: "Men call us birds, we pick up worms"
"Warning:
Dates in Calendar are closer than they appear."
"Give me
ambiguity or give me something else."
"We have
enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART?"
"Make it
idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot."
"Always
remember you're unique, just like everyone else."
"Puritanism:
The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy."
"Consciousness:
that annoying time between naps."
"Be nice to
your kids. They'll choose your nursing
home."
"Why is
'abbreviation' such a long word?"
"Diplomacy
is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'... till you can find a
rock."
"I like you,
but I wouldn't want to see you working with sub-atomic
particles."
"I is a college
student."
"Lead me not
into temptation, I can find it myself."
"I'm out of
bed and dressed, What more do you want?"
Return-Path:
<nop62331@mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep
1997 21:11:06 -0100
From: DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@mail.telepac.pt>
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: Fernanda
Pivano
Rinaldo
Thanks for the
support.
I appreciate very
much your posts. They are very well informed and
accurate.
If you have time
tell me, please, something about Fernanda Pivano
biography and
bibliography. I own "Beat Hippie Yippie" in french, bought
in New York...
Sorry to write
you in english but only can read, so and so, the
italian.Can't
write or speak.
Duarte Moniz
Portugal
To: DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@mail.telepac.pt>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Fernanda Pivano
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<342ED5F9.54D76E95@mail.telepac.pt>
References:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970823113406.40912B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
<3.0.1.32.19970927172232.00710860@pop.gpnet.it>
At 21.11 28/09/97
-0100, DuarteMoniz wrote:
>Rinaldo
>
>Thanks for
the support.
>I appreciate
very much your posts. They are very well informed and
>accurate.
>If you have
time tell me, please, something about Fernanda Pivano
>biography and
bibliography. I own "Beat Hippie Yippie" in french, bought
>in New
York...
>Sorry to
write you in english but only can read, so and so, the
>italian.Can't
write or speak.
>
>Duarte Moniz
>Portugal
>
Duarte, good day,
thanks for yr gentle words,
the book
"Beat Hippie Yippie" is wonderful it's a sketch
of the 60's when
pivano fallen in love with beats especially
corso, kerouac
& ginsberg. now pivano is 80 year old and
in an interview
she tell that's her life great lit love was
Ernest Hemingway,
pivano is a great translator in italian
of the first
poetry book by allen ginsberg "Howl" translated
as
"Urlo" in 1968. the translation was an outstanding event
for young
generation (when i was young 18 old 30 years ago),
ti saluto
caramente,
Rinaldo.
Venezia-Mestre,Italia.
To:
country@sover.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
good saturday
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Oct
1997 15:36:07 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
good saturday to
you my gentle friend. i was thinking of you in the
midst of
preparing to go and read in louisville, a 27 hr bus ride, what
to bring, fear of
performance. now i know just stand up and be me.
love
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> good saturday
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Oct
1997 14:13:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Davide's Bar.
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
hey rinaldo--
this was a really
cool poem. but i was wondering if i could ask you a
question about
technique?
what i am
wondering is how do you decide where to create the line breaks
etc. in a piece?
is this arbitrary, chance based -- for instance in this one
you have a
8-character wide column where all text is placed. looks cool, but
why 8 and not 7
or 9 -- any specific theories, techniques, philosophies here?
thanks.
m
On Mon, 6 Oct
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> RORSCHA
> CH BLOT
> S
>
> a paint
> ing a w
> all a s
> hip by
> the rai
> lroad a
> n ice-c
> ream a
> young m
> other g
> reen ve
> netian
> hills g
> reen so
> nice
>
> SUNDAY
> OCTOBER
> 1997 ru
> sty tra
> ck by t
> he rail
> road st
> ation t
> he cart
> on wing
> s on a
> table a
> t david
> e's bar
>
> AND THE
SILENCE RETURNS.
>
>
> ---
> rinaldo
> 6th oct 97
>
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael
Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and
as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
To: Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Davide's Bar.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.971006141203.31559U-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971006185253.0071c254@pop.gpnet.it>
michel wrote:
>hey rinaldo--
>
>this was a
really cool poem. but i was wondering if i could ask you a
>question
about technique?
>
>what i am
wondering is how do you decide where to create the line breaks
>etc. in a
piece? is this arbitrary, chance based -- for instance in this one
>you have a
8-character wide column where all text is placed. looks cool, but
>why 8 and not
7 or 9 -- any specific theories, techniques, philosophies here?
>
>thanks.
>
>m
michael, i'm
embarassed, but the pattern is a bit prosaic,
i'm fascinating
by the newspaper column.
ciao,
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Oct
97 18:14:05 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
Leonard Cohen (Re: Gary Snyder Reading)
Rinaldo, thank
you for the info. but best of all, the
wonderful poetry you
post, your own as
well as others.
come sta, mi
amico?
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 11:56 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Leonard Cohen (Re: Gary Snyder Reading)
James Stauffer
says:
>I just
returned from hearing Snyder read extensively from "Mountains and
>Rivers"
at Stanford. GS was in great form as a
reader, a tribute to the
>age fighting
effects of Buddhist mediation and/or damn good genes.
>
>The
Humanities Center at Stanford is doing a year long focus on MRWE
>from a number
of perspectives. Interested scholars
might check out
>their web
site http://shc.stanford.edu.
>
>J. Stauffer
>
amici,
i've read an
article concerned Leonard Cohen (now zen monk Leonard C.)
living in the
Rinzai Zen Buddhism Center at Mt. Baldy L.A., it's the
same place
attended by gary snyder?
a week ago i
noted a book written about an interviewed Gary Snyder,
the book is
translated in italian by a the "Abele Circle" a catholic
group devoted to
pacifism, sorry i cant' afford to get thecheapbook'cuz
damnmoney!i have
n't--cari saluti a tutti da rinaldo.
LITTLE WING by Neal Young
All her friends call her Litlle Wing
But the flies rings around them all
She comes to town when the children
sing
And leaves them feathers if they fall.
She leaves her feathers if they fall.
Little Wing, don't fly away
When the summer turns to fall
Don't you know some people say
The winter is the best time of them all
Winter is the best of all.
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: sherri,
ti auguro una buona domenica.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199710101813500607@classic.msn.com>
References:
At 18.14 10/10/97
UT, sherri wrote:
>Rinaldo,
thank you for the info. but best of all,
the wonderful poetry you
>post, your
own as well as others.
>
>come sta, mi
amico?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
im' honoured by
yr kindness and also dal fatto che scrivi
in italiano!
saluti a te, mia cara amica, e ancora un sentito grazie da
rinaldo.
To: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
"Capisce" word
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33E0C7AE.FB4DBBCF@cruzio.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970731185728.00685f80@pop.gpnet.it>
ciao Leon, have a
nice day,
the
"capisce" word is no longer used in italy, instead
there's
"capisci" meaning that somebody "understand so.thing"
in italian
vernacular language (middle & southern italy) the
right spelling is
"capisc'amme" (not used in north italy)
i dunno if this
note is useful but i send u all the same,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<letabor@hotmail.com>
X-Originating-IP:
[152.163.204.9]
From: "Leon
Tabory" <letabor@hotmail.com>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re:
capisci
Date: Sun, 12 Oct
1997 09:49:19 PDT
Thanks Rinaldo,
Mybe I will find
some use for this interesting information. Makes me
feel more
connected to far away people who are not so far away. Capisci.
Have a nice
Sunday. I am just waking up from a party at my daughter's.
Maybe we pick up
James later on the way to the 30th anniversary
celebration in
San Francisco Golden Gate park.
Have a nice rest
of Sunday
leon
Date: Sun, 12 Oct
1997 16:22:42 +0100
>To: Leon
Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
>From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>Subject: the
"Capisce" word
>
>ciao Leon,
have a nice day,
>
>the
"capisce" word is no longer used in italy, instead
>there's
"capisci" meaning that somebody "understand so.thing"
>
>in italian
vernacular language (middle & southern italy) the
>right
spelling is "capisc'amme" (not used in north italy)
>
>i dunno if
this note is useful but i send u all the same,
>cari saluti
da
>Rinaldo.
>
>.-
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct
1997 17:15:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Rocky
Mountain High
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
Rinaldo,
Forgive this
unsolicited interruption. I tried to write a poem that emulated
some of the
techniques of your style that I liked, and would like your
opinion on it:
Monday O
ctober 1
3 10:00
AM EDT (
cnn.com)
- John D
enver ki
lled in
plane cr
ash
Singer a
nd songw
riter Jo
hn Denve
r, whose
'70 hits
such as
"Rocky M
ountain
High" an
d "Take
Me Home,
Country
Roads" g
ained hi
m worldw
ide fame
, was ki
lled Sun
day when
his smal
l aircra
ft plung
ed into
Monterey
Bay, off
icials s
aid Mond
ay. He w
as 53.
Got a Ro
cky Moun
tain Hig
h like m
y friend
Johnny,
went to
Colorado
once wit
h the bl
ues and
always w
ish I wa
s there
again --
never a
70s ramb
lin' man
, just a
kid back
then --
but have
that dre
am of fl
yin' on,
past wha
tever it
is that
holds me
down.
"Come da
nce with
the west
wind and
touch on
the moun
tain top
s Sail o
'er the
canyons
and up t
o the st
ars And
reach fo
r the he
avens an
d hope f
or the f
uture An
d all th
at we "c
an" be,
not what
we are"
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct
97 04:27:22 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE:
sherri, ti auguro una buona domenica.
grazie,
Rinaldo, i have just returned from a
weekend in the Sierra Nevadas to
celebrate my
brother's birthday. it was beautiful up
there and lovely to
spend time with
my brother. how did you spend your
weekend?
ciao,
sherri
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct
97 13:25:54 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE: We
Would Be Two Men.
Cara Rinaldo,
Che
bellisima!!! what book is this poem
from?
buon giorno,
sherri
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct
97 04:11:28 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Stef
" <Ad_Libitum@classic.msn.com>, "HJW II "
<ArchibaldLeach@classic.msn.com>,
"Stuart Crosby" <BRAVES10@classic.msn.com>,
"Ron Vassel"
<BlizzardKing@classic.msn.com>, "Cari Who ELSE????"
<CittiGirl@classic.msn.com>, "db
" <Dee-Bee@classic.msn.com>, "Homebrook "
<Homebrook@classic.msn.com>,
"Jason Tinling" <JTinlng@classic.msn.com>, "Kevin
Mathers"
<KEVMATH@classic.msn.com>, "Kel Rayner"
<Manatbar@classic.msn.com>,
"the little people "
<MarmaladeSkies@classic.msn.com>, "Ask and I might tell
you" <Peaceful-Warrior2@classic.msn.com>,
"Blair " <Reepoo@classic.msn.com>,
"James Sims"
<SimbaJim@classic.msn.com>, "Sharon "
<SopAndBass@classic.msn.com>, "Tom
Gummo" <TGUMMO@classic.msn.com>, "tim/reba"
<the_saluki_experience@classic.msn.com>,
"Life is a sick joke and I'm the
punchline"
<The_Boogey_Man@classic.msn.com>, "rico "
<UNIR1@classic.msn.com>,
"Mark "
<Vox_Amicus@classic.msn.com>, "e.e. cummings"
<What-is_death@classic.msn.com>,
"Tanya Ceccatto"
<_AngelBaby@classic.msn.com>,
"_Prometheus1 " <_Prometheus1@classic.msn.com>,
"S Johnson"
<doc11@classic.msn.com>, "Drew Eskenazi"
<drewesk@classic.msn.com>, "Robert
Lear" <king_lear1@classic.msn.com>, "x "
<king_lear1@classic.msn.com>,
"PAUL KOLJESKI" <koljeski@classic.msn.com>,
"Silver Surfer" <mad-chatter@classic.msn.com>,
"david simoni"
<oak123@classic.msn.com>, "Kash
Philips " <philkash@classic.msn.com>, "anthony
osborne"
<rastafarian@classic.msn.com>, "Rico Mariani"
<ricom_ms@classic.msn.com>,
"Robert Eback" <rleback@classic.msn.com>, "Stephen
Baldwin"
<sabaldwin@classic.msn.com>, "anniepoo" <annh@ccrtc.com>,
"Doug Penn"
<dkpenn@oees.com>,
"BigDaddyRico" <Engelsguy@aol.com>, "Joe Locey"
<JoePlaceb0@aol.com>, CHOMEAGN@aol.com,
CVEditions@aol.com, "Diane De Rooy"
<Ddrooy@AOL.COM>, "Kent
Smedley" <Kent.Smedley@clorox.com>, "MATT HANNAN"
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>, "Arthur
Nusbaum" <SSASN@AOL.COM>, THEBODYIS1@aol.com,
"runner"
<babu@electriciti.com>, beach@qconline.com, "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>, "Marie
Countryman" <country@SOVER.NET>, "Diane Carter"
<dcarter@together.net>, "tristan
saldana" <hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>, "jo
grant" <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
"Leon Tabory" <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>, "Michael
Skau" <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>,
"Donald B. Green" <nycdbg@bellatlantic.net>,
"Patricia Elliott"
<pelliott@sunflower.com>, "RACE ---" <race@MIDUSA.NET>,
"Rinaldo Rasa"
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>, "James Stauffer"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Subject: FW:
----------
From: Sherri
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 4:54 PM
To: love_singing@msn.com
Subject: FW:
----------
From: PBruegel
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 5:39 PM
To: Sherri
----------------------------
The Talking Frog
A man was
crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and
said,
"If you kiss
me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess." He bent over,
picked up the
frog, and put it in his pocket.
The frog spoke up
again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into
a beautiful
princess, I will tell everyone how smart and brave you are
and how you are
my hero" The man took the frog out
of his pocket,
smiled at it, and
returned it to his pocket.
The frog spoke up
again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into
a beautiful
princess, I will be your loving companion for an entire
week." The man took the frog out of his pocket,
smiled at it, and
returned it to
his pocket.
The frog then
cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a
princess, I'll
stay with you for a year and do ANYTHING you want." Again
the man took the
frog out, smiled at it, and put it back into his
pocket.
Finally, the frog
asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a
beautiful
princess, that I'll stay with you for a year and do anything
you want. Why won't you kiss me?"
The man said,
"Look, I'm a computer programmer. I don't have time for a
girlfriend, but a
talking frog is cool."
To: Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Rocky Mountain High
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.971013164522.19243K-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971012221222.0072a794@pop.gpnet.it>
At 17.15 13/10/97
-0400, michael wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>Forgive this
unsolicited interruption. I tried to write a poem that emulated
>some of the
techniques of your style that I liked, and would like your
>opinion on
it:
>
>
> Monday O
> ctober 1
> 3 10:00
> AM EDT (
> cnn.com)
> - John D
> enver ki
> lled in
> plane cr
> ash
>
> Singer a
> nd songw
> riter Jo
> hn Denve
> r, whose
> '70 hits
> such as
> "Rocky M
> ountain
> High" an
> d "Take
> Me Home,
> Country
> Roads" g
> ained hi
> m worldw
> ide fame
> , was ki
> lled Sun
> day when
> his smal
> l aircra
> ft plung
> ed into
> Monterey
> Bay, off
> icials s
> aid Mond
> ay. He w
> as 53.
>
> Got a Ro
> cky Moun
> tain Hig
> h like m
> y friend
> Johnny,
> went to
> Colorado
> once wit
> h the bl
> ues and
> always w
> ish I wa
> s there
> again --
> never a
> 70s ramb
> lin' man
> , just a
> kid back
> then --
> but have
> that dre
> am of fl
> yin' on,
> past wha
> tever it
> is that
> holds me
> down.
>
> "Come da
> nce with
> the west
> wind and
> touch on
> the moun
> tain top
> s Sail o
> 'er the
> canyons
> and up t
> o the st
> ars And
> reach fo
> r the he
> avens an
> d hope f
> or the f
> uture An
> d all th
> at we "c
> an" be,
> not what
> we are"
>
>
michael by
synchronicity i've read the news
about john denver
death shortly before yr poem and
remind me a jk's
"On the Road" fragment (tiny poem)
''
It was the Denver Night; all I did was die.
Down in Denver, down in Denver
All I did was die
''
alot of person
who is the 70s nostalgia, thanks for
the poem,
ciao da
rinaldo.
To: "Sherri
" <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: buon
mercoledi'
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199710140426100484@classic.msn.com>
References:
At 04.27 14/10/97
UT, Sherri says:
>grazie,
Rinaldo, i have just returned from a
weekend in the Sierra Nevadas to
>celebrate my
brother's birthday. it was beautiful up
there and lovely to
>spend time
with my brother. how did you spend your
weekend?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
ciao Sherri,
i've spent the
sunday morning in venetian hills, october falls
the leaves,
ancient castles in top of green mountain, shopping centre
in downhill...
the landscape of my infancy only in my mind...
ti ringrazio ancora
per le tue gentili lettere,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct
97 01:18:43 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: RE: buon
mercoledi'
Caro Rinaldo,
i am jealous -
the Venetion hills in l'autunno.
<sigh> they must be molto
belissimo.
i am going to try
to work on my italian so i can write to you more in your
language. would you be willing to help me improve my
grammar and usage?
today the weather
was made in Heaven... too bad i had to spend it in the
office. :-(
ciao mi amico,
sherri
----------
From: Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 10:09 AM
To: Sherri
Subject: buon mercoledi'
At 04.27 14/10/97
UT, Sherri says:
>grazie,
Rinaldo, i have just returned from a
weekend in the Sierra
Nevadas to
>celebrate my
brother's birthday. it was beautiful up
there and lovely to
>spend time
with my brother. how did you spend your
weekend?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
ciao Sherri,
i've spent the
sunday morning in venetian hills, october falls
the leaves,
ancient castles in top of green mountain, shopping centre
in downhill...
the landscape of my infancy only in my mind...
ti ringrazio
ancora per le tue gentili lettere,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
To:
pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re: carl
adkins
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
>Subject: carl adkins
>rinaldo i have really enjoyed the list.
>http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
> Is carl
adkins a country western singer?
>I wish that
people on the beat-list would look at your list and email
>you any
pictures that you might be able to use.
I is interesting to me.
>I like that
tactile sense of seeing their eyes.
>patricia
>
patricia, on my
ring binder carl adkins is circled and
quoted as friend
to jack kerouac, thanks alot for the
tribute to the
group work that give fuel to the project,
grazie, grazie di
tutto, ciao da rinaldo.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: buona
domenica
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710041936.PAA25028@pike.sover.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971004162058.006864ec@pop.gpnet.it>
good sunday
to you marieReturn-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct
1997 18:53:17 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Supernova List
Rinaldo,
I somehow lost my
URL for your supernova list. Could you
send it?
Thanks.
James Stauffer
To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the url
of Re: Supernova List
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<344AB98C.6BC4@pacbell.net>
References:
At 18.53 19/10/97
-0700, James wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>I somehow
lost my URL for your supernova list.
Could you send it?
>
>Thanks.
>
>James
Stauffer
>
James,
yep!, thanks for
the advice, i've checked the url and now it's
awright, (was'cuz
a fault in the router 13 of the gpnet server),
the Beat
SuperNova url is
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
THANKS AGAIN FOR YR SUPPORT.
--
by the way,
the name
"Remi Boncoeur" is the true character name in OTR &
somebody on the
Beat-L had posted mistyped the name, the OTR novel
starts with Remi
and ends with him, the not-literate
friend of JK, the
only with no record in the beat-lit,
the maestro:
"You can't teach the old maestro a new tune",
--
saluti cari da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path: <dupbooks@tiac.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct
1997 12:24:29 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender:
dupbooks@pop.tiac.net
To: rinaldo@GPNET.IT
From:
dupbooks@tiac.net (Russell duPont)
Subject: Re:
poetry catalogue
My new catalogue,
Poets and Poetry, can be viewed at my website at
www.tiac.net/users/dupbooks
Russell duPont
Russell R.
duPont
Bookseller
41 Star Street
Whitman, MA
02382
781/447-4091
dupbooks@tiac.net
Web Site.
http://www.tiac.net/users/dupbooks
Specializing in
books
and exhibition
catalogues
on the fine and
decorative arts.
To: DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@mail.telepac.pt>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beat-L 1995 archives
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<344E7E54.8691CDB5@mail.telepac.pt>
References:
Duarte,
u can obtain the
archive beat using such command line
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
in the body
GET BEAT-L
LOG9709
if u like receive
the september archive, if u wish to
receive the
another month archive i.e. april 96
u send a new
messagge at the same address but
in the body writ
get beat-l log9604
here a summa of
the beat-l archive you can download:
*
* BEAT-L FILELIST for LISTSERV@CUNYVM.
*
* Files concerning the BEAT-L Beat Generation
List
*
* This filelist may be sorted in columns 47 to
63 to get a list of
* files in the order of their updates. Sorting
in descending order
* shows the most recently updated files at the
top.
*
* To have any of these files sent to you, send
a GET command to
* LISTSERV@CUNYVM in the form of GET
<filename> <filetype> <listname>.
* (e.g. GET BEAT-L LOG9505 BEAT-L).
*
* If an entry shows nrecs=0 the file is not available.
*
* rec last - change
* filename
filetype GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs date
time File description
* --------
-------- --- --- --- ----- -----
-------- -------- ----------------
*
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
*
* The GET/PUT authorization codes shown with
each file entry describe
* who is authorized to GET or PUT the file:
*
* ALL = Everybody
* OWN = List owners
*
*
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
BEAT-L
MAILTPL ALL OWN . .
0 ........ ........ Listserv info
BEAT-L
WELCOME ALL OWN V 69
11 95/05/03 18:52:27 Welcome message
BEAT-L
CONFIRM ALL OWN V 79
52 95/05/09 13:28:01 Listserv info
BEAT-L
COMP_PCI ALL OWN F 80
6428 96/10/25 11:52:08 PCI's List
*
* NOTEBOOK archives for the list
* (Monthly notebook)
* rec last - change
* filename
filetype GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs date
time Remarks
* --------
-------- --- --- --- ----- -----
-------- -------- -------------------------------
BEAT-L LOG9505
PRV OWN V 80 35 95/05/30 11:11:34 Started on Mon, 29 May
1995 22:22:45 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9506 PRV OWN V 83
2252 95/06/30 22:59:02 Started on Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:33:48 EDT
BEAT-L
LOG9507 PRV OWN V 119
4808 95/07/31 23:50:25 Started on Sat, 1 Jul 1995 00:54:41 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9508 PRV OWN V 85
5644 95/08/31 22:37:40 Started on Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:21:34 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9509 PRV OWN V 85
5007 95/09/30 20:34:51 Started on Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:56:14 +0100
BEAT-L
LOG9510 PRV OWN V 80
5765 95/10/31 19:02:11 Started on Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:04:27 +0800
BEAT-L
LOG9511 PRV OWN V 242 10949 95/11/30 23:55:16 Started on
Wed, 1 Nov 1995 02:11:56 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9512 PRV OWN V 80
9231 95/12/31 20:17:32 Started on Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:56:09 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9601 PRV OWN V 84
4050 96/01/31 22:17:07 Started on Mon, 1 Jan 1996 11:37:24 -0800
BEAT-L
LOG9602 PRV OWN V 144
9734 96/02/29 22:24:44 Started on Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:12 +0000
BEAT-L
LOG9603 PRV OWN V 81 12443 96/03/31 09:01:37 Started on
Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:52:40 -0600
BEAT-L
LOG9604 PRV OWN V 81
9898 96/04/30 22:15:33 Started on Sun, 31 Mar 1996 11:31:45 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9605 PRV OWN V 80
6312 96/05/31 23:09:11 Started on Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:38:52 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9606 PRV OWN V 112
6829 96/06/30 19:25:53 Started on Sat, 1 Jun 1996 09:40:32 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9607 PRV OWN V 149
3140 96/07/31 10:41:17 Started on Mon, 1 Jul 1996 16:07:36 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9608 PRV OWN V 80
5393 96/08/31 22:43:36 Started on Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:06:58 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9609 PRV OWN V 119 11222 96/09/30 23:52:39 Started on
Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:54:29 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9610 PRV OWN V 242 31185 96/10/31 21:00:00 Started on
Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:29:03 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9611 PRV OWN V 113 21865 96/11/30 19:06:04 Started on
Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:37:27 EST
BEAT-L
LOG9612 PRV OWN V 83 25562 96/12/31 22:59:04 Started on
Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:21:05 -0800
BEAT-L
LOG9701 PRV OWN V 119 31567 97/01/31 16:54:25 Started on
Wed, 1 Jan 1997 02:28:05 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9702 PRV OWN V 83 25404 97/02/28 22:54:34 Started on
Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:52:42 +0000
BEAT-L
LOG9703 PRV OWN V 118 20887 97/03/31 23:19:44 Started on
Sat, 1 Mar 1997 00:42:04 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9704 PRV OWN V 83 73554 97/04/30 23:59:59 Started on
Tue, 1 Apr 1997 03:44:03 -0500
BEAT-L
LOG9705 PRV OWN V 86 68508 97/05/31 23:58:32 Started on
Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:39:21 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9706 PRV OWN V 98 50538 97/06/30 23:59:34 Started on
Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:50:16 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9707 PRV OWN V 83 39153 97/07/31 23:37:33 Started on
Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:00:07 -0700
BEAT-L
LOG9708 PRV OWN V 87 53453 97/08/31 21:51:50 Started on
Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:29:14 -0400
BEAT-L
LOG9709 PRV OWN V 87 21597 97/09/16 16:19:17 Started on
Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:21:55 -0400
---
i hope this match
yr request information,
let me know if it
works,
cari saluti,
Rinaldo.
----
At 21.29 22/10/97
-0100, you wrote:
>Rinaldo
>Please tell
me how can I download the Beat-L archive.
>I tried to send
this question to Bill Gargan at wxgbc@cunyvm.bitnet, but
>
>my server
always returns my mail.
>Duarte
>
>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: p.s. Re:
Beat-L 1995 archives
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
<344E7E54.8691CDB5@mail.telepac.pt>
Duarte,
excuse me but the
right form to get the beat-l archives is
>To
>
>LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>in the body
>
>GET BEAT-L
LOG9709 BEAT-L
>
again saluti da
Rinaldo.
To:
DuarteMoniz@mail.telepac.pt
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: p.s.
beat-l archives
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Duarte,
excuse me but the
right form to get the beat-l archives is
>To
>
>LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>in the body
>
>GET BEAT-L
LOG9709 BEAT-L
>
again saluti da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<nop62331@mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct
1997 23:51:39 -0100
From: DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@mail.telepac.pt>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Beat-l
archives
L-Soft list
server at The City University of NY (1.8c) wrote:
> > GET
BEAT-L LOG9505 BEAT-L
> File
"BEAT-L LOG9505" is not yet available.
>
> I don't
understand this. Gargan wants to delete this files and the
> server says
is not yet avaiable.
Do you ?Um abraço
( I read it...)
Duarte
Return-Path:
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 21:16:17 EDT
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: archives
To: rinaldo@gpnet.it
It's not so bad,
Rinaldo. We've got them all downloaded
to a hard
drive. When I get some time, maybe over the summer,
I'll clean out all
the repeated
messages, personal replys that weren't really meant for the
list etc. Eventually, I hope we'll upload the edited,
smaller files
again.
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct
1997 10:30:45 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: your
poetry
your poetry
great, i visited the page.
p
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: your
poetry
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<345210A5.4A27@sunflower.com>
References:
At 10.30 25/10/97
-0500, patricia wrote:
>your poetry
great, i visited the page.
>p
>
patricia, i'm
happy you remarked the great
marie's poem
"intoxication" in the _new north american poetry_
section of the
supernova, un abbraccio da rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 97 17:54:26 EDT
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: archives
To: rinaldo@gpnet.it
Rinaldo, don't
worry, the archives aren't gone forever.
Several of us have dow
nloaded them and
have them safely on our computers. As I
said, I hope to edit
out all the
redundant stuff and reload on listserv sometime in the future.
Return-Path:
<ileif@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct
1997 15:38:47 -0600 (CST)
From:
ileif@ix.netcom.com
X-Sender:
ileif@popd.ix.netcom.com
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: Italian
Translations
Rinaldo,
Can you
reconmmend (with address) an Italian antiquarian bookseller who I
can contact about
purchasing first Italian translations of Kerouac's books?
Thanks!!
Irving Leif
To:
ileif@ix.netcom.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Italian Translations
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710262138.PAA19668@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
References:
sorry Irving,
here in Venice (Italy) at the moment i've visited
some remainders
bookstore, but the only beat related i've found
are "First
Blues" by Allen Ginsberg and "Poems" by Gregory Corso
both printed in
the '70s.
Of course i've
the paperback italian translation of "On the Road"
="Sulla
strada" dated 1969. Still if i noticed something i'll tell
you further, cari
saluti da Rinaldo.
--------------------------------------
At 15.38 26/10/97
-0600, Irving wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
>Can you
reconmmend (with address) an Italian antiquarian bookseller who I
>can contact
about purchasing first Italian translations of Kerouac's books?
>
>Thanks!!
>
>Irving Leif
>
Return-Path:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
Reply-To:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
From:
"dcaridade" <dcaridade@geocities.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: una
poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
Date: Wed, 29 Oct
1997 16:54:41 -0000
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by geocities.com id KAA20720
Ola and thank you
for answering Rinaldo.
Sorry about the
late response but I've been buried in Beat-l messages and I
just got to
yours.
Would you mind
posting another one?
(here in Portugal
is very difficult to get Ferlinghetti's poetry, I only
have Coney
Island... and Over All the obscene Boundaries, and it cost me my
skin to get
them!!)
One other thing,
the poem starting:
"beatus, qui
legit,"
Is it yours?
Thanks again,
Daniel
---------
Re: una poesia
scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
> Data:
Sábado, 25 de Outubro de 1997 22:19
>
> hola Daniel,
(...)
Return-Path:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
Reply-To:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
From:
"dcaridade" <dcaridade@geocities.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: help:
the lion for real
Date: Wed, 29 Oct
1997 19:16:30 -0000
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by geocities.com id LAA13968
I only have the
Ballad,
here it comes,
A Ballad Of The
Skeletons
Said the
Presidential Skeleton
I won't sign the
bill
Said the Speaker
skeleton
Yes you will
Said the
Representative Skeleton
I object
Said the Supreme
Court skeleton
Whaddya expect
Said the Military
skeleton
Buy Star Bombs
Said the Upperclass
Skeleton
Starve unmarried
moms
Said the Yahoo
Skeleton
Stop dirty art
Said the Right
Wing skeleton
Forget about yr
heart
Said the Gnostic
Skeleton
The Human Form's
divine
Said the Moral
Majority skeleton
No it's not it's
mine
Said the Buddha
Skeleton
Compassion in
wealth
Said the
Corporate skeleton
It's bad for your
health
Said the Old
Christ skeleton
Care for the Poor
Said the Son of
God skeleton
AIDS needs cure
Said the
Homophobe skeleton
Gay folk suck
Said the Heritage
Policy skeleton
Blacks're outa
luck
Said the Macho
skeleton
Women in their
place
Said the
Fundamentalist skeleton
Increase human
race
Said the
Right-to-Life skeleton
Foetus has a soul
Said Pro Choice
skeleton
Shove it up your
hole
Said the
Downsized skeleton
Robots got my job
Said the
Though-on-Crime skeleton
Tear gas the mob
Said the Governor
skeleton
Cut school lunch
Said the Mayor
skeleton
Eat the budget
crunch
Said the Neo Conservative
skeleton
Homeless off the
street!
Said the Free
Market skeleton
Use 'em up for
meat
Said the Think
Tank skeleton
Free Market's the
way
Said the S &
L skeleton
Make the State
pay
Said the Chrysler
skeleton
Pay for you &
me
Said the Nuke
Power skeleton
& me & me
& me
Said the Ecologic
skeleton
Keep Skies blue
Said the
Multinational skeleton
What's it worth
to you?
Said the NAFTA
skeleton
Get rich, Free
Trade,
Said the
Maquiladora skeleton
Sweat shops, low
paid
Said the rich
GATT skeleton
One world, high
tech
Said the
Underclass skeleton
Get it in the
neck
Said the World
Bank skeleton
Cut down your
trees
Said the I.M.F.
skeleton
Buy American
cheese
Said the
Underdeveloped skeleton
Send me rice
Said Developed
Nations' skeleton
Sell your bones
for dice
Said the
Ayatollah skeleton
Die writer die
Said Joe Stalin's
skeleton
That's no lie
Said the
Petrochemical skeleton
Roar Bombers
roar!
Said the Psychedelic
skeleton
Smoke a dinosaur
Said Nancy's
skeleton
Just say No
Said the Rasta
skeleton
Blow Nancy Blow
Said Demagogue
skeleton
Don't smoke Pot
Said Alcoholic
skeleton
Let your liver
rot
Said the Junkie
skeleton
Can't we get a
fix?
Said the Big
Brother skeleton
Jail the dirty
pricks
Said the Mirror
skeleton
Hey good looking
Said the Electric
Chair skeleton
Hey what's
cooking?
Said the Talkshow
skeleton
Fuck you in the
face
Said the Family
Values skeleton
My family values
mace
Said the N.Y.
Times skeleton
That's not fit to
print
Said the C.I.A.
skeleton
Cantcha take a
hint?
Said the Network
skeleton
Believe my lies
Said the
Advertising skeleton
Don't get wise!
Said the Media skeleton
Believe you Me
Said the
Couch-potato skeleton
What me worry?
Said the TV
skeleton
Eat sound bites
Said the Newscast
skeleton
That's all
Goodnight
12-16/2/95
There's a
Portuguese magazine, [up]arte in which I was a participant, that
was able, with
their permission, to publish in 1996 some unpublished poems
by Ginsberg
(among them Ballad of the Skeletons), and Ferlinghetti, as well
as a small
anthology from Ginsberg
Daniel
----------
> De: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
> Para:
> Assunto:
help: the lion for real
> Data:
Terça-feira, 28 de Outubro de 1997 19:14
>
> friends,
> by the Campo
Santa Margherita, in a shop window
> Allen
Ginsberg looks at me, i brought the lion
> for real,
worth buying, in the tracks there's
> as a plus
for the CD italian edition "the ballad of
>
skeletons" and "amazing grace" but there's isn't
> the lirycs,
help!, i appreciate if one can post it,
> un mucchio
di grazie in anticipo da
> Rinaldo.
>
Return-Path:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
Reply-To:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
From:
"dcaridade" <dcaridade@geocities.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
help: the lion for real
Date: Wed, 29 Oct
1997 19:16:30 -0000
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by geocities.com id LAA03102
I only have the
Ballad,
here it comes,
A Ballad Of The
Skeletons
Said the
Presidential Skeleton
I won't sign the
bill
Said the Speaker
skeleton
Yes you will
Said the
Representative Skeleton
I object
Said the Supreme
Court skeleton
Whaddya expect
Said the Military
skeleton
Buy Star Bombs
Said the
Upperclass Skeleton
Starve unmarried
moms
Said the Yahoo
Skeleton
Stop dirty art
Said the Right
Wing skeleton
Forget about yr
heart
Said the Gnostic
Skeleton
The Human Form's
divine
Said the Moral
Majority skeleton
No it's not it's
mine
Said the Buddha
Skeleton
Compassion in
wealth
Said the
Corporate skeleton
It's bad for your
health
Said the Old
Christ skeleton
Care for the Poor
Said the Son of
God skeleton
AIDS needs cure
Said the
Homophobe skeleton
Gay folk suck
Said the Heritage
Policy skeleton
Blacks're outa
luck
Said the Macho
skeleton
Women in their
place
Said the
Fundamentalist skeleton
Increase human
race
Said the
Right-to-Life skeleton
Foetus has a soul
Said Pro Choice
skeleton
Shove it up your
hole
Said the
Downsized skeleton
Robots got my job
Said the
Though-on-Crime skeleton
Tear gas the mob
Said the Governor
skeleton
Cut school lunch
Said the Mayor
skeleton
Eat the budget
crunch
Said the Neo
Conservative skeleton
Homeless off the
street!
Said the Free
Market skeleton
Use 'em up for
meat
Said the Think
Tank skeleton
Free Market's the
way
Said the S &
L skeleton
Make the State
pay
Said the Chrysler
skeleton
Pay for you &
me
Said the Nuke
Power skeleton
& me & me
& me
Said the Ecologic
skeleton
Keep Skies blue
Said the
Multinational skeleton
What's it worth
to you?
Said the NAFTA
skeleton
Get rich, Free
Trade,
Said the
Maquiladora skeleton
Sweat shops, low
paid
Said the rich
GATT skeleton
One world, high
tech
Said the
Underclass skeleton
Get it in the
neck
Said the World
Bank skeleton
Cut down your
trees
Said the I.M.F.
skeleton
Buy American
cheese
Said the
Underdeveloped skeleton
Send me rice
Said Developed
Nations' skeleton
Sell your bones
for dice
Said the Ayatollah
skeleton
Die writer die
Said Joe Stalin's
skeleton
That's no lie
Said the
Petrochemical skeleton
Roar Bombers
roar!
Said the
Psychedelic skeleton
Smoke a dinosaur
Said Nancy's
skeleton
Just say No
Said the Rasta
skeleton
Blow Nancy Blow
Said Demagogue
skeleton
Don't smoke Pot
Said Alcoholic
skeleton
Let your liver
rot
Said the Junkie
skeleton
Can't we get a
fix?
Said the Big
Brother skeleton
Jail the dirty
pricks
Said the Mirror
skeleton
Hey good looking
Said the Electric
Chair skeleton
Hey what's
cooking?
Said the Talkshow
skeleton
Fuck you in the
face
Said the Family
Values skeleton
My family values
mace
Said the N.Y.
Times skeleton
That's not fit to
print
Said the C.I.A.
skeleton
Cantcha take a
hint?
Said the Network
skeleton
Believe my lies
Said the
Advertising skeleton
Don't get wise!
Said the Media
skeleton
Believe you Me
Said the
Couch-potato skeleton
What me worry?
Said the TV
skeleton
Eat sound bites
Said the Newscast
skeleton
That's all
Goodnight
12-16/2/95
There's a
Portuguese magazine, [up]arte in which I was a participant, that
was able, with
their permission, to publish in 1996 some unpublished poems
by Ginsberg (among
them Ballad of the Skeletons), and Ferlinghetti, as well
as a small
anthology from Ginsberg
Daniel
----------
> De: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
> Para:
> Assunto:
help: the lion for real
> Data:
Terça-feira, 28 de Outubro de 1997 19:14
>
> friends,
> by the Campo
Santa Margherita, in a shop window
> Allen
Ginsberg looks at me, i brought the lion
> for real,
worth buying, in the tracks there's
> as a plus
for the CD italian edition "the ballad of
>
skeletons" and "amazing grace" but there's isn't
> the lirycs,
help!, i appreciate if one can post it,
> un mucchio
di grazie in anticipo da
> Rinaldo.
>
To:
pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re:
david o and scattered scraps
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:06:00 -0600
>From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
>Subject: david o and scattered scraps
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>david ohle
> QUIET, WHATS THAT NOISE
> ringmaster, orphan, thinking, thinking
>twisting,
turning over rocks.
> solid honor, clever charm
>
>he can take a
small point,
>by twisting
and turning it,
>show a large
amount of light.
>
>he honors
love, small warm things
>fill him with
a wonder that he of
>course hides,
what does he care.
>
>
Patricia, i like
yr poem written about, in honour (tribute)
to friends, at
the moment David Ohle, i'm askin'you the permission
to include the
"david o" poem in the ''new north american poetry''
section of the
beat supernova, i've snipped yr original post to beat-L,
if i've cut wrong
the post please letme know & cari saluti da Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
Reply-To:
<dcaridade@geocities.com>
From:
"dcaridade" <dcaridade@geocities.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Ballad of the Skeletons
Date: Thu, 30 Oct
1997 11:51:55 -0000
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by geocities.com id DAA02455
Rinaldo,
in the same
magazine ([up]arte) I told you about another poem published was
New Stanzas for
Amazing Grace, I'm sending you private mail because I don't
know if there are
any legal restrictions concerning its public
distribution,
when I left the magazine there a few internal feuds about it,
and I don't know
if the poems were published anywhere else since then...
Well, hope you
enjoy the poem/song...
New Stanzas for
Amazing Grace
I dreamed I
dwelled in a homeless place
Where I was lost
alone
Folk looked right
through me into space
And passed with
eyes of stone
O homeless hand
on many a street
Accept this
change from me
A friendly smile
or word is sweet
As fearless
charity
Woe workingman
who hears the cry
And cannot spare
a dime
Nor look into a
homeless eye
Afraid to give
the time
So rich or poor
no gold to talk
A smile on your
face
The homeless ones
where you may walk
Receive amazing
grace
I dreamed I
dwelled in a homeless place
Where I was lost
alone
Folk looked right
through me into space
And passed with
eyes of stone
2/4/94
composed at the
request of Ed Sanders for his production of The New Amazing
Grace performed
November 20 at the Poetry Project
in St. Mark's
Church in the Bouwerie
See you later,
daniel
----------
> De: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
> Para:
> Assunto:
thanks for Re: Ballad of the Skeletons
> Data:
Quarta-feira, 29 de Outubro de 1997 16:57
>
> many thanks
to the friends who gave me info 'bout
> the tracks
#18 and #19 of The Lion For Real, the
> sound of
Ginserg's voice/word and the music in back have
> a great
feeling...
>
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct
1997 07:38:46 -0600
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
david o and scattered scraps
Sure Rinaldo, it
is an honor. The poem is correct.
patricia
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997
20:06:00 -0600
>
>From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
>
>Subject: david o and
scattered scraps
> >To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> >
> >david
ohle
> > QUIET, WHATS THAT NOISE
> > ringmaster, orphan, thinking, thinking
> >twisting,
turning over rocks.
> > solid honor, clever charm
> >
> >he can
take a small point,
> >by
twisting and turning it,
> >show a
large amount of light.
> >
> >he
honors love, small warm things
> >fill him
with a wonder that he of
> >course
hides, what does he care.
> >
> >
>
> Patricia, i
like yr poem written about, in honour (tribute)
> to friends,
at the moment David Ohle, i'm askin'you the permission
> to include
the "david o" poem in the ''new north american poetry''
> section of
the beat supernova, i've snipped yr original post to beat-L,
> if i've cut
wrong the post please letme know & cari saluti da Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct
1997 17:44:09 -0500
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
exchanging pic of mine
Thanks for the
picture. If you want to see a black and
white of me, you can catch it off the Hendrix page at my web page
below. It is from the San Francisco Hey Joe
meet. I will try to find the rogue's
gallery picture site too.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> hello
friends,
> letme know
if i'm wrong but alot of friends exchanges
> each other
the photos, so i do it, sending to you this little
> italian
quadretto: myself (r, rinaldo) & (l, my litle niece silvia),
> cari saluti
a tutti saluti da
> rinaldo.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: rinaldo.jpg
> rinaldo.jpg Type: Vuepro32 File (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
To:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
exchanging pic of mine
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<345A5F39.F3F6B7A4@scsn.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971031232013.0100f08c@pop.gpnet.it>
>Thanks for
the picture. If you want to see a black
and white of me, you can catch it off the Hendrix page at my web page
>below. It is from the San Francisco Hey Joe
meet. I will try to find the rogue's
gallery picture site too.
Bentz i've now yr
photo in my hard disk archive it's fine to see
friends who drive
each other letters & images, sure! thanx your Rinaldo.Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct
1997 17:10:54 -0600
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: thanks
Thank you I
enjoyed the picture very much. I was silly, thought of you
much older from
the other pic on your site. Is that your bambino?
On another subject, I notice that one of your
site contributer is
Richard
Kershenbaum , from Lawrence, Do you know him? Do you recall the
connection.
caio.
patricia
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<345A657E.FF3@sunflower.com>
References:
At 17.10 31/10/97
-0600, Patricia wrote:
>Thank you I
enjoyed the picture very much. I was silly, thought of you
>much older
from the other pic on your site. Is that your bambino?
> On another subject, I notice that one of your
site contributer is
>Richard
Kershenbaum , from Lawrence, Do you know him? Do you recall the
>connection.
>
>caio.
>patricia
>
Patricia, the
bambina in the pic is my nuace (she is my dead brother's
Danilo daughter,
she is niece to me).
Richard
Kershenbaum emailed me but don't have further news.
The photo i put
on the supernova is a resemblance to myself not myself.
I've posted on
the beat-L my own photo because of fraternity.
At 02.45 31/10/97
-0600, patricia wrote:
> subject:Re:
petite beat, lena,
>Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\Pa1lenaoveralls.jpg"
>
excuse me but
it's the above mentioned pic of you? again thanks.
Have a good
saturday, Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Nov
1997 01:01:48 -0600
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
thanks
patricia wrote:
> >
subject:Re: petite beat, lena,
>
>Attachment Converted:
"c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\Pa1lenaoveralls.jpg"
> >
> excuse me
but it's the above mentioned pic of you? again thanks.
>
> Have a good
saturday, Rinaldo.
the picture is of
my daughter. Her name is Helena, she is 11 years old
i posted on my
gallery site a picture of william holding lena, me beside
him on his porch
in Lawrence. She is a fine child. Knew william, met
Allen, busy for a
little girl.
patricia.
http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html
To: Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a
technical question
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.971013164522.19243K-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971012221222.0072a794@pop.gpnet.it>
Michael, excuse
me but when u have a bit of time please
tell why i can
obtain a string of spaces in html
text coding. the
problem occurs when i must to
put spaces at the
left margin of the text. in such
a case the spaces
i've put are deleted when i do
a test with the
browser i.e.
(1)i saw...
(2)i saw the...
the example #2
don't works in html, only in a text
written in email
program it works.
there's some
extra-character code to obtain the space?
thanks for any
suggestions,
Rinaldo.
To:
country@SOVER.NET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
re:photos of friends never yet seen
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:16:00 +0000
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
>Subject: photos of friends never yet seen
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>thank you
rinaldo!
>thank you
patricia!
>images came
out loud and clear and dear.
>marie
>
marie, of course
good saturday, i've posted the photo
for fraternity
with the far friends and it's nice to see
and read, i
think, ciao e tantissimi auguri!!! da rinaldo.To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanks
for the pics Re: thanks
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<345AD3DC.782C@sunflower.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971101075437.00cb4a64@pop.gpnet.it>
At 01.01 01/11/97
-0600, patricia wrote:
>patricia
wrote:
>> >
subject:Re: petite beat, lena,
>>
>Attachment Converted:
"c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\Pa1lenaoveralls.jpg"
>> >
>> excuse
me but it's the above mentioned pic of you? again thanks.
>>
>> Have a
good saturday, Rinaldo.
>
>the picture
is of my daughter. Her name is Helena, she is 11 years old
>i posted on
my gallery site a picture of william holding lena, me beside
>him on his
porch in Lawrence. She is a fine child. Knew william, met
>Allen, busy
for a little girl.
>patricia.
>http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html
>
patricia, i've
seen yr picture theey are so fine
i love the pic
"william and the grear cat fletch"
ciao,
rinaldo.Return-Path: <stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov
1997 18:16:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: a
technical question
X-MS-URL:
http://dsl.org/m/
Rinaldo--
> Michael,
excuse me but when u have a bit of time please
> tell why i
can obtain a string of spaces in html
> text coding.
If you put this
in your text:
it will put a
blank space in it. for instance:
i
saw the...
will print this:
i saw the...
alternately, you
can use <p align=right> or <p align=center> at the
beginning of a
paragraph that you want aligned differently.
salutti a tutti,
(did I spell that right?)
m
email
stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael
Stutz; this information is
<http://dsl.org/m/> free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and
as long
as this sentence remains;
it comes with absolutely NO
WARRANTY; for details see
<http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.
To: Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: a
technical question
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.971101181443.17507C-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971101125924.006a5d10@pop.gpnet.it>
michael says:
>If you put
this in your text:
>
>
>
>it will put a
blank space in it. for instance:
>
> i
saw the...
>
>will print
this:
>
> i saw the...
thanks alot
michael it's works fine, tanti saluti, rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<bkirchho@s-cwis.unomaha.edu>
Date: Sat, 8 Nov
1997 12:30:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Brian
M. Kirchhoff" <bkirchho@s-cwis.unomaha.edu>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: More
of the Dharma
hi rinaldo.
thanks for the
insights into the connection between the end of OTR and
heaven.
i would question
the "father we never found" as being god, however. i
always
interpreted that as neal's (dean's) father who they searched for in
denver and never
found. dean was obsessed with finding
his lost father
and this became
symbolic of his own uncertain past. i think the father we
never found line
relates to dean's inablility to come to terms with his
past.
just a humble
observation.
hope all is well
in italy.
Brian M.
Kirchhoff----Omaha, NE
"Someone
must have been telling lies about Joeseph K., for without having
done anything
wrong he was arrested one fine morning." -Kafka, The Trial
Return-Path:
<letabor@cruzio.com>
Reply-To: Leon
Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding
line at mail.cruzio.com
Subject: Re: people of autumn (apocalypsis)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov
1997 11:02:23 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Rinaldo? Wha
happened? Miss you. I hope everything is O.K. Best wishes
leon
Return-Path:
<mapaul@pipeline.com>
X-Sender:
mapaul@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 11 Nov
1997 10:02:01 -0500
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: "Paul
A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re:
"On the Road" ("Sulla strada") Cover italian poket edition
1967.
Hi Rinaldo - your
cover you sent me is now posted. It can be found at:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
Thanks! Paul of TKQ...
"We cannot
well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
Henry David Thoreau
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
X-Sender:
babu@pop.electriciti.com (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov
1997 22:27:59 -0700
To: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: pussy
(babu)
Cc:
ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu, agit8@hotmail.com, bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
ChrisHein@aol.com, CVEditions@aol.com,
Dfroley@aol.com,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fmadre@hol.fr, Raminocs@aol.com,
jill@jillbell.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, ddmoses@earthlink.net,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
googie@wam.umd.edu, tpreece@pacbell.net
Where have I
been? Ask myself that question
sometimes. As if by looking
at the back of my
palm, by greasing up the ol' memory banks, some secret
will crack. Fucking crack and pour solution over all my
well made
non-plans. Non-plans.
Pussy plans. No, not even that
good.
Being
controversial. Can't do it. Nope, can't do it, not anymore. Pussy.
It's all that
really matters anymore. I guess I'm
joking. Kinda joking.
Not really. It's not about being single so fucking
long. nope. Not
about having one
unfullfilling job after another. Not
about having second
rate dick, not
about having a hemhoraging intelligence.
Just pussy.
that golden
moment of being in pussy. breathing, of
being pussy. The word
is almost
ubiquitous these days. Go into your
corner drug store and pick
up some
pussy. Oh, and ten dollars on number 5
please. Oh, and a coke.
Oh, I'm sorry,
can I get a copy of the Los Angeles Times too?
Gotta read
the sports
section. Pussies, all pussies.
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Pussy.html
xo, Douglas
Return-Path:
<RaminOcs@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov
1997 08:34:48 -0500 (EST)
From:
RaminOcs@aol.com
To:
babu@electriciti.com, dkpenn@oees.com
cc:
ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu, agit8@hotmail.com, bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
ChrisHein@aol.com, CVEditions@aol.com,
Dfroley@aol.com,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fmadre@hol.fr, RaminOcs@aol.com,
jill@jillbell.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, ddmoses@earthlink.net,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, rinaldo@gpnet.it,
love_singing@msn.com,
googie@wam.umd.edu, tpreece@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: pussy (babu)
Doug,
I hope that what
you were talking about were your cats!
If not you're going
to piss off all
your girl friends with shit like that.
Try your left
hand for awhile.
John B.
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: yr ''david
o'' poem on the web
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<345AD3DC.782C@sunflower.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971101075437.00cb4a64@pop.gpnet.it>
patricia, i've
updated the "new american poetry" and i renamed it
"Crazy Bull
Cafe'". i added yr poem ''david o''. i hope that's
allright... ciao
da rinaldo.
http://wwww.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
http://wwww.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov
1997 18:35:53 -0600
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
CC:
pelliott@sunflower.com
Subject: Re: yr
''david o'' poem on the web
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> patricia,
i've updated the "new american poetry" and i renamed it
> "Crazy
Bull Cafe'". i added yr poem ''david o''. i hope that's
> allright...
ciao da rinaldo.
>
http://wwww.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
>
http://wwww.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
Wonderful, I
called david ohle and told him about your wonderful site.
you do me honor,
but i admit to liking the poem. I had a
bit of trouble
connecting with
the url you sent, but went to my bookmarks and traveled
right to you.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
Return-Path:
<jill@jillbell.com>
X-Sender:
i366732@mail.thegrid.net
Date: Thu, 13 Nov
1997 12:03:47 -0800
To: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
From:
jill@jillbell.com (Jill Bell)
Subject: Re:
pussy (babu)
Cc:
ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu, agit8@hotmail.com, bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
ChrisHein@aol.com, CVEditions@aol.com,
Dfroley@aol.com,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fmadre@hol.fr, Raminocs@aol.com,
jill@jillbell.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, ddmoses@earthlink.net,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
googie@wam.umd.edu, tpreece@pacbell.net
At least you're
honest (and obviously horny).
----------------------------------------------------
I want to lie
shipwrecked and comatose,
Drinking fresh
mango juice,
Goldfish shoals
nibblin' at my toes,
Fun, fun, fun in
the sun, sun, sun,
Fun, fun, fun in
the sun, sun, sun.
(Red Dwarf
theme song)
----------------------------------------------------
WHAT'S NEW?
My halloween
greeting that isn't back from the printer yet......
(updated
10/31/97)
http://www.art.net/Studios/Visual/Jillbell/new.html
---===<<<<<<<((((((([[[[[[[*]]]]]]])))))))>>>>>>>===---
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov
1997 17:02:41 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Rinaldo--
This isn't derek, by the way--it's his, uh,
girlfriend, i guess.
being a
barbarian, i don't speak/read italian; i am doing a paper on a
novel by Mary
Shelley (who wasn't nearly as barbaric as i) which is set in
the period--could
you possibly translate that poem for me?
it would be
wonderful of you.
Thanks!
Courtney
On Thu, 13 Nov
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> cari amici,
> Cecco
Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,
> was an
italian poet, he was involved in brawls and
> lawsuit for
don't do the military service. He was a
> friend to
Dante Alighieri.
> His feeling
is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,
> Lawrence
Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.
>
> Now i post a
poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'
>
> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> La mia malinconia by Cecco Angiolieri
>
> La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,
> ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l
sapesse
> un che mi fosse nemico mortale,
> che di me di pietade non piangesse
>
> Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;
> che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse
> guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l
mie male
> sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse
>
> Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;
> e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;
> ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene
> men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:
> mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi
diene.
>
> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
>
> un saluto a
tutti,
> Rinaldo.
>
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
italian mary shelley
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.971113170116.46112C-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971113231536.00b35cec@pop.gpnet.it>
At 17.02 13/11/97
-0700, Courtney says:
>
>Rinaldo--
> This isn't derek, by the way--it's his, uh,
girlfriend, i guess.
>being a
barbarian, i don't speak/read italian; i am doing a paper on a
>novel by Mary
Shelley (who wasn't nearly as barbaric as i) which is set in
>the
period--could you possibly translate that poem for me? it would be
>wonderful of
you.
>
>Thanks!
>Courtney
Courtney,
i do everything
for the friends, let me know further info,
un saluto a
Derek,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<love_singing@classic.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov
97 22:42:57 UT
From:
"Sherri " <love_singing@classic.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RE:
Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
Caro
Rinaldo, come sta, mi amico? grazie per la bella poesia, et cetera.
you always come
up with so many lovely things. let's
have some more of your
own beautiful
poems, ok?
ciao, caro
amico... sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
Rinaldo Rasa
Sent: Friday, November 14, 1997 10:45 AM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
After Dino Campana by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
'Song of Myself and Others'?
O what a laugh that is
When all I ever wanted
was to voice an
inchoate
elementary fury
A spirit that frees itself
and flies
to the top of a
tree to sing
in the ultimate
red sunset
O tree without birds
standing mute!
* *
* * *
* * *
* *
*
cari amici,
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti has celebrated the tuscan poetry
connected with
beat poetry and it's right. Of course
there's another 2
line in italian poetry: it's the
sicily poetry
and venetian poetry. speaking of
venetian
poetry (or
lombard) it's more roughly and picaresque.
The tuscan poetry
is more soft and better, so the root
of the italian
language tuscan, sicilian and venetian,
it's better
choice the tuscan language. Lawrence Ferlinghetti
wrote another
poem to celebrate a tuscan poet such as
Dino Campana who
was suffering during his life a heavy
mental illness
and died in a mental hospital.
* *
* * *
* * *
* *
*
for those who
like Federico Fellini's movies there's in
the movie titled
"Amarcord" (1975) the mad uncle on the
top of the tree
shouting "a woman! i want a woman!"
but on evening
went the dwarf nun and the madman goes back
peacefully to the
hospital, an unforgettable scene.
I dunno if
Fellini was suggested by the above poem
"After Dino
Campana" or vice versa.
un saluto a
tutti, a good saturday to everybody,
Rinaldo.
* *
* * *
* *
* * *
*
At 07.45 14/11/97
-0600, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>rinaldo,
wonderful poems, you make us open up. i do fear you have set a
>a poor
example, for we are too provincial,
should you ask us for to
>please post
our words in italian too.
>ciao
>patricia
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> At 18.03
13/11/97 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>> >Eric
Craig Sapp wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
hi rinaldo,
>> >>
could you maybe post an english translation of this poem.
>> >>
>> >>
from,
>> >>
Eric
>> >>
>> >>
On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa
>> >>
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
> cari amici,
>> >>
> Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,
>> >>
> was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and
>> >>
> lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a
>> >>
> friend to Dante Alighieri.
>> >>
> His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,
>> >>
> Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.
>> >>
>
>> >>
> Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'
>> >>
>
>> >>
> * * *
* * *
* * *
*
>> >>
> La mia malinconia by Cecco Angiolieri
>> >>
>
>> >>
> La mia malinconia e' tanta e
tale,
>> >>
> ch'e' non discredo che,
s'egli 'l sapesse
>> >>
> un che mi fosse nemico
mortale,
>> >>
> che di me di pietade non
piangesse
>> >>
>
>> >>
> Quella, per cu' m'avven,
poco ne cale;
>> >>
> che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse
>> >>
> guarir'n un punto di tutto
tutto 'l mie male
>> >>
> sed ella pur: - I' t'odio -
mi dicesse
>> >>
>
>> >>
> Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho
da lei;
>> >>
> e ched'i vad'a far li fatti
miei;
>> >>
> ch'ella non cura s'i' ho
gi'oi' o pene
>> >>
> men ch'una paglia che le va
tra' piei:
>> >>
> mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a
le' mi diene.
>> >>
>
>> >>
> * * *
* * *
* * *
*
>> >>
>
>> >>
> un saluto a tutti,
>> >>
> Rinaldo.
>> >
>> >hi
rinaldo,
>> >
>> >so
good to see your name on my computer screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >
>>
>david rhaesa
>>
>salina, Kansas
>> >
>> cari
amici,
>>
>> the Cecco
Angiolieri poem is written in very ancient italian,
>> the time
(XIII century) when i.e. the ego was "I" (note the italian
>>
"I" use in the ancient italian sentence "I' t'odio"=
"i hate you!",
>> then the
use was dismissed, now of course the italian people is
>> less
egocentric...).
>>
>> the poem
is in a bunch of poems written by Cecco Angiolieri, prolific
>> medieval
writer .
>>
>> well,
for the poem "La mia malinconia" Cecco is in sad blue feeling,
>> his
girlfriend parted from him. Cecco is hopeless...
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>> My melancholy by Cecco Angiolieri
>>
>> my melancholy is deep
>> that even a my worse enemy
>> would have pity for me
>>
>> but the woman
>> she doesn't care about
my melancholy
>> she doesn't tell to me
not even I hate!
>> If she tells me
"I hate you"
>> it would cure my
melancholy
>>
>> but the woman
>> she tell me go away!
>> she doesn't care about
my melancholy
>> she tramples on my
sorrow like grass
>> under her feet.
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>>
>> i think
it's wonderful to post the original poem by Cecco (the
>> poem
that Lawrence Ferlinghetti mimes in ''Alla maniera di
>> Cecco
Angiolieri'')
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>>
>> S'i' fosse foco by Cecco Angiolieri
>>
>> S'i' fosse foco arderei 'l
mondo;
>> s'i' fosse vento, lo
tempesterei;
>> s'i' fossi acqua i'
l'annegherei;
>> 4 s'i' fosse Dio mandereil'en profondo;
>>
>> s'i' fosse papa, sare' allor
giocondo,
>> che' tutti cristiani
imbrigherei;
>> s'i' fosse 'mperator, sa' che
farei?
>> 8 A tutti mozzarei lo capo a
tondo.
>>
>> S'i' fosse morte anderei da mio padre;
>> s'i' fossi vita, fuggirei da
lui:
>> 11 similmente far'ia da mi' madre.
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>> translation
of the above poem
>> by
courtesy of Federica "Kikka" Ferrieri
>>
>> Cecco
Angiolieri IF I WERE FIRE
>>
---------------- --------------
>>
>> IF I
WERE FIRE, I WOULD BURN THE WORLD;
>> IF I
WERE WIND, IWOULD STORM IT;
>> IF I
WERE WATER, I WOULD DROWN IT;
>> IF I
WERE GOD, I WOULD SEND IT INTO DEPTH;
>>
>> IF I
WERE THE POPE, I WOULD THEN BE HAPPY,
>> BECAUSE
I WOULD TROUBLE ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE;
>> IF I
WERE THE EMPEROR, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO?
>> I WOULD
COMPLETELY DECAPITATE EVERYONE
>>
>> IF I
WERE DEATH, I WOULD GO TO MY FATHER;
>> IF I
WERE LIFE, I WOULD ESCAPE FROM HIM:
>> IN THE
SAME WAY I WOULD BEHAVE WITH MY MOTHER.
>>
>> IF I
WERE CECCO, AS I AM AND HAS BEEN,
>> I WOULD
CHOSE YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN:
>> AND
LEAVE THE OLD AND UGLY ONES FRO SOMEONE OTHER.
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>>
>> un caro
saluto a tutti,
>> Rinaldo
e "Kikka".
>
>
To:
jenunderground@geocities.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
subscribe underground tunnel
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Return-Path:
<stratis@odyssee.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov
1997 21:31:02 +0100 (MET)
X-Sender:
stratis@pop.microtec.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From:
stratis@odyssee.net (Antoine Maloney)
Subject:
Fondamenta delle Zattere
Thank you Rinaldo
for the Laughlin poem. My wife Lizzie has always been a
big fan of his
both for his writing and his publishing...it went along with
her devotion to
Exra Pound. She had a chance to meet Laughlin, Pound's
mistress(consort?)
and daughter AND Allen Ginsberg in 1986 at a Paeduma
(Pound
literature) conference in Maine U.S.A. She was charmed by Laughlin
and impressed with
his genius.
The address above referes to where
Lizzie and I stayed during our
four days in
Vanice in September '74. We went because of the interest
engendered by
Pound and by John Ruskin. The inn/hotel we stayed in was just
west of Fondamenta
Bragadin. I notice in the guide map
that has the map
I'm looking at
that there are inns at 779 and 780 Zattere...may have been
one of them - the
further east of the two.
When I woke up our first morning there
I saw that on the wall below
adjacent ot our
room was a plaque announcing that Ruskin had livved at this
hotel.
Thanks anyway for posting directions to
the map of Venice. It
brought back some
very nice memories.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
cease to be
amused."
Return-Path:
<caridade@mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov
1997 12:09:46 +0000
From: caridade
<caridade@mail.telepac.pt>
Reply-To:
caridade@mail.telepac.pt
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: boxer
Ciao Rinaldo,
Having read your
poem/reply to Marie, whih I enjoyed very much, I like
to direct you to
the few writings of Arthur Cravan, I think you'll
really get a kick
out of them...
(that is, If you
haven't already read him yet).
He prefer being a
boxer rather to a painter or a writer (which he did
beautifully, and
with a great sense of humour)...
saluti,
daniel
To:
caridade@mail.telepac.pt
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
boxer
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3472D70A.23BE@mail.telepac.pt>
References:
daniel scrive:
>Ciao Rinaldo,
>
>Having read
your poem/reply to Marie, whih I enjoyed very much, I like
>to direct you
to the few writings of Arthur Cravan, I think you'll
>really get a
kick out of them...
>(that is, If
you haven't already read him yet).
>He prefer
being a boxer rather to a painter or a writer (which he did
>beautifully,
and with a great sense of humour)...
>
>saluti,
>daniel
>
>
daniel,
i like a to have
the writings above
you mentioned, it
seems beautiful,
un caro saluto da
rinaldo.
To:
MagenDror@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Rinaldo
Rasa is living in Venice, Italy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
luther please
change the bio i'm living in Venice.
thanx for the
link! rinaldo.Return-Path: <cfthomps@cadvision.com>
X-Sender:
cfthomps@cadvision.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov
1997 11:19:05 -0700
To: rinaldo@gpnet.it
From: Courtney
Frances Thompson <cfthomps@cadvision.com>
Subject: Shelley
Research (again/still)
Rinaldo:
I don't know if this was once sent--my
computer is a little
unpredictable at
times. I don't know if you remember, but
I am derek's
girlfriend and am
doing some research on Mary Shelley. I
was wondering
whether or not
you would be willing to translate the following for me (from
Shelley's novel
_Valperga_). If it's too much trouble,
don't worry about
it--perhaps I should
stop being such a barbarian and learn to do this on my
own. Thanks a lot.
Quel, ch'ella par
quando un poco sorride,
Non si puo dicer,
ne tenere a mente;
Si `e nuovo
miracolo, e gentile.
- Dante, La Vita
Nuova
"E
Bellissimo," replied her guide, "ma figurateci, Madonna, se `e tanto
bello sul
rovescio, cosa mai sara` al dritto."
Egli e' come dio
viole.
E' si sara quel
che dio vorra'.
Io morro`, e
vedret il mondo per varie turbolenze confondersi, e rivoltarsi
ogni cosa.
[The accents got
kinda screwed up in the transfer, as might the spelling
itself--if it
doesn't make sense, let me know and I will try again]
Thanks a lot
Courtney
To: Courtney
Frances Thompson <cfthomps@cadvision.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Shelley Research (again/still)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971124181905.0066abac@cadvision.com>
References:
Courtney Frances
Thompson says:
>Rinaldo:
> I don't know if this was once sent--my
computer is a little
>unpredictable
at times. I don't know if you remember,
but I am derek's
>girlfriend
and am doing some research on Mary Shelley.
I was wondering
>whether or
not you would be willing to translate the following for me (from
>Shelley's
novel _Valperga_). If it's too much
trouble, don't worry about
>it--perhaps I
should stop being such a barbarian and learn to do this on my
>own. Thanks a lot.
>
>
>Quel, ch'ella
par quando un poco sorride,
when she's smiling
>Non si puo
dicer, ne tenere a mente;
there's no words
>Si `e nuovo
miracolo, e gentile.
it's a miracle.
>- Dante, La
Vita Nuova
>
>"E
Bellissimo," replied her guide, "ma figurateci, Madonna, se `e tanto
>bello sul
rovescio, cosa mai sara` al dritto."
>
It is wonderful, "replied her
guide",
but Madonna, if it's so beautiful
reverse image what's in front of you!
>Egli e' come
dio viole.
He is such as God wants
>
>E' si sara
quel che dio vorra'.
and it will be what God want.
>
>Io morro`, e
vedret il mondo per varie turbolenze confondersi, e rivoltarsi
>ogni cosa.
>
I will die, the world will finish in the
turbulences,
and everything turn over.
>[The accents
got kinda screwed up in the transfer, as might the spelling
>itself--if it
doesn't make sense, let me know and I will try again]
>
>Thanks a lot
>Courtney
>
Courtney,
in this sentence
Mary Shelley tell us that hell or heaven
are the same
thing, they are both beautiful .
p.s.
in an article of
the newspaper "la Repubblica":
Ritrovato in
Toscana un inedito dell'autrice di "Frankenstein"
Mary shelley
una favola in soffitta
di Susanna Nirenstein
Sembra un
racconto vittoriano. Dagli scaffali polverosi
di una villa
toscana, dimenticato in una vecchia scatola
di legno, legato
con un nastro e ricoperto con un cartoncino
gia' usato per
seccare delle piccole foglie, improvvisamente
e' saltato fuori
un manoscritto di Mary Shelley, una storia
per bambini
scritta dalla ribelle, sregolata, romantica
autrice di
Frankenstein, il romanzo - ormai quasi una leggenda-
uscito nel 1818.
E questo proprio nel bicentenario della
nascita di Mary.
Quando Cristina e
Andrea Dazzi hanno trovato in soffitta il
libretto che
aveva sulla prima pagina un titolo scritto a
mano
"Maurice, or the Fisher's Cot" e una dedica
"A Laurette
dalla sua amica Mrs Shelley", hanno capito che
la scoperta
poteva essere una cosa seria, soprattutto perche'
Andrea discende
da una nobile famiglia Cini che aveva
frequentato Mary
e il suo Percy Bysshe Shelley negli agitati
anni del loro
soggiorno italiano. Dopo alcune ricerche, hanno
capito che la
cosa piu' saggia era telefonare a Londra, a
Claire Tomalin, a
sua voltaautruce di numerosi saggi sugli Shelley
e sulla madre di
Mary- quella sorta di mito protofemminista
di Mary
Wollstonecraft- e curatrice, quest'anno, della grande
mostra sulle due
donne prevista alla National Portrait Gallery
il 28 novembre.
Tomalin ha
drizzato le orecchie. Di quella novella si aveva
traccia nel
diario italiano di Mary, alla data del 20 agosto 1820,
dove parlava di
una storia per Laurette, la figlia di 11 anni
di Lady
Mountcashell, grande amica della coppia Shelley. Nel
diario, un anno
piu' tardi, avrebbe scritto anche di aver mandato
il raccontino
intitolato "Maurice" a suo padre William Godwin,
direttore di una
casa editrice per bambini, ma il severo godwin
aveva giudicato
la novella troppo breve.
Tomalin e' volata
in Toscana, ha preso tra le mani il manoscritto,
ha allontanato i
padroni di casa che tentavano di offrirle un
caffe' per paura
che si potessero macchiare le preziose carte,
e le ha
attribuite senza ombra di dubbio alla nostra autrice.
Come poi ha fatto
anche Catherine Payling, la curatrice del
Museo
Keats-Shelley di Roma.
Una storia a lieto
fine dunque. E la novella? Le 39 pagine del
manoscritto
raccontano la vicenda melanconica di un bambino
rapito a suo
padre, matematico ad Oxford e architetto di successo.
Henry, il piccolo
protagonista (sul cui nome poi la Shelley
evidentemente
aveva avuto dei presentimenti) fugge ai kidnapper che
lo maltrattano e
si rifugia nella capanna di un buon pescatore.
Il padre,
distrutto, vaga per il paese cercando un ''bellissimo
bambino, con la
voce piu' dolce del mondo'', e lo ritrova solo-
a ricordarci il
gusto gotico del tempo- al funerale di un altro
povero marinaio.
Inutili le belle scuole di Eton offerte a
Henry-Maurice,
inutili le ricchezze, il ragazzo andra' a ricercare
semplicita' e
amore dal suo pescatore, con cui pero' non peschera'
piu' ''perche'
non gli piaceva far soffrire o distruggere gli animali''.
Una fiaba triste:
com'e' triste Mary, depressa e oppressa da tutto
cio' che riguarda
il rapporto tra nascite e morti, tra genitori,
figli e destino,
una infelicita' sottolineata piu' volte dai suoi
critici a
proposito di Frankenstein. E nell'anno in cui scrive
"Maurice"
questo e' ancora piu' vero: se era fuggita con il poeta
Percy Bysshe
Shelley a 16 anni tutta sogni e amore, la ritroviamo
disperata nel
1820, a 22 anni, mentre ha perso ben tre dei quattro
bambini avuti da
Percy. Forse inventare una fuaba piu' allegra
non le sarebbe
stato davvero possibile.
***
un saluto a te e
derek,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
X-Sender:
jen@enternet.co.nz
Date: Wed, 26 Nov
1997 15:41:22 +1300
To: "The
Underground Tunnel":;
From: Jen
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
Subject: I
Finally Did It!
Thanks for your
patience, folks. The Underground Tunnel
has finally been
updated!
Yipppeee!
Hoorah!!!!
Three Cheers for
me!!!!
from a Smiling
Jen
________________________________________________
To err is human -
To purr is feline.
Jen's Underground
http://www.enternet.co.nz/client/personal/jen
________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov
1997 15:27:22 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: saluti
rinaldo
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
r
wanted to thank
you for yr help w/ shelley, etc. you have been a big help.
& i was
wondering if you had anything to add here...
once again
our illustrious premier has decided
that the oil
fields and the dollar
is
much
more
important than
reduction of fossil fuel emmisions
change in his pockets
rather
than
change for the better
Return-Path:
<love_singing@email.msn.com>
From:
"sherri" <love_singing@email.msn.com>
To: "Coart
Johnson" <scoartj@msn.com>,
"Tom Gummo" <TGUMMO@msn.com>,
"tim/reba"
<the_saluki_experience@msn.com>,
<THEBODYIS1@aol.com>,
"the little people"
<MarmaladeSkies@msn.com>,
"Stuart Crosby"
<BRAVES10@msn.com>,
"Stephen Baldwin"
<sabaldwin@msn.com>,
"Stef" <Ad_Libitum@msn.com>,
"Silver Surfer"
<mad-chatter@msn.com>,
"Sharon"
<SopAndBass@msn.com>,
"S. Coart Johnson"
<scoart@mindspring.com>,
"Robert Lear"
<king_lear1@msn.com>,
"Robert Eback"
<rleback@msn.com>,
"Rinaldo Rasa"
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>,
"Rico Mariani"
<ricom_ms@msn.com>,
"Ricardo Cottrell" <unir1@email.msn.com>,
"RACE ---" <race@MIDUSA.NET>,
"R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>,
"PAUL KOLJESKI"
<koljeski@msn.com>,
"Patricia Elliott"
<pelliott@sunflower.com>,
"Mike Rice"
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>,
"MATT HANNAN"
<MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>,
"Mark" <Vox_Amicus@msn.com>,
"Marie Countryman"
<country@SOVER.NET>,
"Life is a sick joke and I'm the
punchline" <The_Boogey_Man@msn.com>,
"Leon Tabory"
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>,
"Kevin Mathers"
<KEVMATH@msn.com>,
"Kent" <NoixDeGolf@msn.com>,
"Kel Rayner"
<Manatbar@msn.com>,
"Kash Philips"
<philkash@msn.com>,
"Joe Locey"
<JoePlaceb0@aol.com>,
"jo grant"
<jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
"Jim B" <PBRUEGEL@msn.com>,
"Jason Tinling"
<JTinlng@msn.com>,
"James Stauffer"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
"James Sims"
<SimbaJim@msn.com>,
"Homebrook"
<Homebrook@msn.com>,
"HJW II"
<ArchibaldLeach@msn.com>,
"Gary Mex Glazner"
<PoetMex@AOL.COM>,
"e.e. cummings"
<What-is_death@msn.com>,
"Drew Eskenazi"
<drewesk@msn.com>,
"Doug Penn"
<dkpenn@oees.com>,
"Donald B. Green"
<nycdbg@bellatlantic.net>,
"Diane De Rooy"
<Ddrooy@AOL.COM>,
"Diane Carter"
<dcarter@together.net>,
"Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>,
"db" <Dee-Bee@msn.com>,
"david simoni"
<oak123@msn.com>,
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
"cj" <sjohn111@aol.com>,
"caridade"
<caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>,
"Cari Who ELSE????"
<CittiGirl@msn.com>,
"Blair" <Reepoo@msn.com>,
"Bill Gargan"
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>,
<beach@qconline.com>,
"Ask and I might tell you"
<Peaceful-Warrior2@msn.com>,
"Arthur Nusbaum"
<SSASN@AOL.COM>,
"Antoine Maloney"
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>,
"anniepoo" <annh@ccrtc.com>
Subject: Happy
Thanksgiving
Date: Thu, 27 Nov
1997 07:28:57 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
<x-html><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><BASE
href="file://C:\Program
Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>
<!--
body {
margin-left: 5em;
font-family:
"Comic Sans MS";
font-size: 14pt;
font-weight: regular;
color: "#ff9900";
}
-->
</STYLE>
<META
content='"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
background=cid:004f01bcfb49$2d4963a0$88e92399@default bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript size=5>Just wanted to wish all of you
a happy
holiday. To those of you outside of the US, the same wishes, (even
though you do not
celebrate this day) since the original notion was to be
thankful for all
that we have and for those who have helped us get through some
very rough
times. May the spirit of compassion and love for the Earth and
all her dwellers
grow beyond all our borders.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript
size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript size=5>love & roses,
sherri</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>
Attachment
Converted: "c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\Happy Thanksgiving.gif"
To:
"sherri" <love_singing@email.msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Happy Thanksgiving
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01bcfb49$2d6af560$88e92399@default>
References:
At 07.28 27/11/97
-0800, sherri wrote:
> May the spirit of compassion and love
for the Earth and all her
>dwellers grow
beyond all our borders. &
roses, sherri Attachment
>Converted:
"c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\Happy Thanksgiving.gif"
sherri,
ti ringrazio
moltissimo per il gentile pensiero,
spero che tu stia
passando una bella e felice giornata,
un sentito saluto
da
rinaldo.
To: Jen
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: I
Finally Did It!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711260244.PAA22732@enternet.co.nz>
References:
At 15.41 26/11/97
+1300,jen says:
>Thanks for
your patience, folks. The Underground
Tunnel has finally been
>updated!
>
>Yipppeee!
>
>Hoorah!!!!
>
>Three Cheers
for me!!!!
>
>from a
Smiling Jen
>
>
>
>________________________________________________
>To err is
human - To purr is feline.
>
>Jen's
Underground
>http://www.enternet.co.nz/client/personal/jen
>________________________________________________
>
hey, jen, i've
tried to point yr underground tunnel
but my browser
tell me
HTTP/1.0 404
Object Not Found
anyway very nice
home page new zealand.
for myself i live
in the suburb of
venice, italy. at the opposite on the earth.
if you point yr
browser to
http://www.comune.venezia.it/citta.htm
you can exactly
found in which venetian city area i'm living
it's marked in
the map as
13 -
S.Lorenzo-XXV Aprile
i've a web page
at
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
again have
goodday and go on!
thanks for yr
post.
ciao,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
X-Sender:
jen@enternet.co.nz
Date: Fri, 28 Nov
1997 13:08:12 +1300
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
From: Jen
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
Subject: Re: I
Finally Did It!
Hello Rinaldo in
Italy! :-)
At 11:10 pm
27/11/97 +0100, you wrote:
>hey, jen,
i've tried to point yr underground tunnel
>but my
browser tell me
>HTTP/1.0 404
Object Not Found
Are you sure it's
got
http://www.enternet.co.nz/client/personal/jen/Tunnel.html
?
Works fine for
me. Try again - let me know what
happens.
>anyway very
nice home page new zealand.
Thanks!
>for myself i
live
>in the suburb
of venice, italy. at the opposite on the earth.
Wow - Gondolas,
and stuff. Lovely!
>if you point
yr browser to
>http://www.comune.venezia.it/citta.htm
>you can
exactly found in which venetian city area i'm living
>it's marked
in the map as
>13 -
S.Lorenzo-XXV Aprile
Okay - will
do. Can't just now as I'm supposed to be
working, but I'll
take a look over
the weekend.
>i've a web
page at
>http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
Same for this
too.
Thanks for taking
the time to write to me...Let me know if you're still
having trouble
getting to the Tunnel.
Take care
Jen
Return-Path:
<love_singing@email.msn.com>
From:
"sherri" <love_singing@email.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Happy Thanksgiving
Date: Thu, 27 Nov
1997 21:18:59 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Rinaldo, mille
grazie come sta, mi amico? ciao, sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
To: sherri
<love_singing@email.msn.com>
Date: Thursday,
November 27, 1997 1:52 PM
Subject: Re:
Happy Thanksgiving
>At 07.28
27/11/97 -0800, sherri wrote:
>> May the spirit of compassion and love
for the Earth and all her
>>dwellers
grow beyond all our borders. &
roses, sherri Attachment
>>Converted:
"c:\pbox\rinaldo\attach\Happy Thanksgiving.gif"
>
>sherri,
>
>ti ringrazio
moltissimo per il gentile pensiero,
>spero che tu
stia passando una bella e felice giornata,
>
>un sentito
saluto da
>rinaldo.
>
Return-Path:
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Fri, 28 Nov
1997 14:48:57 -0500
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
From: jo grant
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
Subject: Re: one
more a day Charles Bukowski poem
And what a gem to
add to this day RR. Thanks
j grant
>One More
Day by Charles Bukowski
>
>the slippery
summer sun of my youth is
>gone
>and the mad
girls are in others' hands
>as I drive my
car to the wash
>and watch the
boys dry it to a hearty
>glisten
>I stand there
>having
learned some tricks
>out of minor
courage and lucky
>durability
>I still
realize my vast vincibility.
>it took time
to realize
>something
quite not
>realized.
>too much
time.
>time shot
apart: bang.
>
>I walk to my
car,
>tip the
gentleman a dollar,
>get in,
>the slippery
sun of my youth
>gone,
>I drive off,
>turn left,
>turn right.
>I am going
somewhere.
>hands on the
wheel.
>checking the
rear view mirror.
>
>I am old game
for the oldest
>hunter.
>
>I stop at the
red light.
>
>it's a fair
day among the
>living.
>the earth has
been here for
>such a very
long
>time.
>
>I get the
green and go
>on.
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
Details on-line late today
http://www.bookzen.com
592,901 Visitors 07-01-96 to
11-01-97
Return-Path:
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov
1997 13:31:30 -0800
From: Adrien
Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:
vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: Re: one
more a day Charles Bukowski poem
Rinaldo,
Thanks for
posting the Buk poem...he may not be of the Beat Generation
but he's 100% b e
a t. Tonight I'm watching four hours of Bukowski
talking to Barbet
Schroeder...I've never seen it before, so it's bound
to be an
illuminating experience.
Adrien
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> One More
Day by Charles Bukowski
>
> the slippery
summer sun of my youth is
> gone
> and the mad
girls are in others' hands
> as I drive
my car to the wash
> and watch
the boys dry it to a hearty
> glisten
> I stand
there
> having
learned some tricks
> out of minor
courage and lucky
> durability
> I still
realize my vast vincibility.
> it took time
to realize
> something
quite not
> realized.
> too much
time.
> time shot
apart: bang.
>
> I walk to my
car,
> tip the
gentleman a dollar,
> get in,
> the slippery
sun of my youth
> gone,
> I drive off,
> turn left,
> turn right.
> I am going
somewhere.
> hands on the
wheel.
> checking the
rear view mirror.
>
> I am old
game for the oldest
> hunter.
>
> I stop at
the red light.
>
> it's a fair
day among the
> living.
> the earth
has been here for
> such a very
long
> time.
>
> I get the
green and go
> on.
Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov
1997 20:25:40 -0500
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Mobile
Rinaldo:
Did you get that
painting off the Dylan list? If not, you
should post
it there. I like
it.
-
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
To: Jen
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: I
Finally Did It!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711280011.NAA21169@enternet.co.nz>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971127231029.006a3938@pop.gpnet.it>
<199711260244.PAA22732@enternet.co.nz>
At 13.08 28/11/97
+1300, jen wrote:
>Hello Rinaldo
in Italy! :-)
>
>At 11:10 pm
27/11/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>hey, jen,
i've tried to point yr underground tunnel
>>but my
browser tell me
>>HTTP/1.0
404 Object Not Found
>
>Are you sure
it's got
>http://www.enternet.co.nz/client/personal/jen/Tunnel.html
?
>Works fine
for me. Try again - let me know what
happens.
ok it works!
r.
>Jen
>
>Return-Path:
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov
1997 20:09:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
From: Gerald
Nicosia <gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Subject: Saving
the Memory Babe archive
Gerald Nicosia
Writer
PO Box 130
Corte Madera, CA
94976-0130
(415) 924-2270
(phone/fax)
November 29, 1997
Caro Rinaldo:
I am writing to everyone who has supported or
shown interest in my work on
Jack Kerouac and
my critical biography of Kerouac, Memory Babe.
The huge amount of research I did on
Kerouac's life during the years
1977-1981,
including 300 hundred taped interviews and many thousands of
pages of letters
and other documents, is in grave danger of being lost
forever. Let me explain.
In 1987, for the very modest fee of $7,500, I
placed the entire Memory Babe
Archive on
deposit at the University of Lowell (now called the University of
Massachusetts,
Lowell). Since Lowell is Jack Kerouac's
hometown, I assumed
the archive would
receive maximum exposure there to scholars, writers, and
others interested
in studying Kerouac's life and writings.
In fact, when I
placed the Memory
Babe archive at the university, it was done with the
stipulation that
it be made available to the public for scholarly study. I
also stipulated
that the materials, especially the tapes, be properly cared for.
The unique and precious quality of this
material cannot be overemphasized.
Of the 300 people
I taped who knew Kerouac, over 100 are now dead. Many of
the dead
interviewees are major American writers, such as Allen Ginsberg,
William
Burroughs, Kenneth Rexroth, Robert Duncan, Bob Kaufman, Ted
Berrigan, John
Clellon Holmes, Paul Carroll, Seymour Krim, Malcolm Cowley,
Herbert Huncke,
and Jan Kerouac. Other dead interviewees
include Kerouac's
first two wives,
Edie Parker and Joan Haverty, and close boyhood friends.
These interviews
can NEVER BE REPLACED.
The University of Lowell has never copied
these tapes on to fresh cassettes
or made any other
effort to preserve them, such as digitalization, despite
my complaints
about their obvious deterioration over time.
Then, in June,
1995, I received
a post card from scholar/professor James Jones that the
entire archive
was closed to the public. Mr. Jones wrote:
"I just tried to
look at the
papers you donated to the University of Lowell, and the
librarian in the
Mogan Center told me your collection is closed to the
public until the
lawsuit is resolved."
I called Martha Mayo, the librarian, to ask
what was going on, and why Jan
Kerouac's lawsuit
against the Sampas family, to recover her father's papers,
should have
anything to do with my archive. Ms. Mayo
informed me that John
Sampas, the
literary executor for Jack Kerouac materials inherited from his
sister Stella,
had complained about people having access to my collection
without his
permission.
Lowell Archive Letter - Page
2
Mr. Sampas lives
in Lowell and has a great deal of influence there. The
library agreed to
shut my collection, even though Mr. Sampas has never
demonstrated that
he has the legal authority to keep people from using any
of the Memory
Babe materials for study. (Legally, he
has the right only to
keep people from
publishing or broadcasting Jack Kerouac's writings without
his permission.)
I threatened to make a public issue of the
illegal closing of my archive,
and was then
told--deceptively--by the librarian that the collection was
still open, that
she had only restricted the xeroxing of Jack Kerouac
letters. (There are also 2,000 Jack Kerouac letters in
xerox in my
collection, more
Jack Kerouac letters than in any other spot on earth.)
Several months
later, however, I began getting more letters and calls from
scholars who had
been turned away from the entire collection.
The
university then
admitted the collection was indeed closed.
In effect, this enormous archive of study
material on the life of Jack
Kerouac has been
permanently buried--and consigned to imminent destruction,
since the life of
many of the tapes is at most only a few more years.
Other libraries, such as the Bancroft in
Berkeley and the University of
Texas at Austin,
have already expressed their interest in acquiring the
Memory Babe
archive, for the purpose of making it available for study. But
the University of
Massachusetts at Lowell will not divest itself of the
archive, even if
paid back in full the purchasing price.
The University of
Massachusetts,
Lowell, will not sell the Memory Babe archive, will not
properly care for
it, and will not show it to anyone. This
is a situation
in which everyone
is the loser, and most especially the future generations
of scholars and
writers who seek access to a wealth of primary source
material on Jack
Kerouac.
The University of Massachusetts, Lowell, has
left me no choice but to file
a breach of
contract suit against them, to recover the MEMORY BABE archive
so that it can be
placed in another institution, where it can be made freely
available to the
public. An institution not under the direct
influence of
Mr. John
Sampas. For two years I tried and failed
to put together a pro
bono legal team
to carry out this suit, but was unable to do so. I have,
however, found a
Boston attorney who will take the case at a considerably
reduced rate. But I still need to come up with a $20,000
retainer, which
will also cover
filing fees, depositions, and so forth.
Action must be taken now, or the chance to
act will be lost forever. A
statute of
limitation is running on fraud and breach of contract--three
years in
Massachusetts. That statute will be up
in June of 1998. If I do
not take action
before then, I will lose forever the legal right to recover
the MEMORY BABE
archive.
I am asking people to donate as much as they
possibly can. I do not intend
to make any money
from this legal action whatsoever. My
only goal is to
save this huge
archive of study materials for posterity.
Every person who
donates will
receive a receipt for their donation and an accounting every 6
months of how the
money is being spent.
Lowell Archive Letter - Page 3
We hope that negative publicity will cause
the University of Massachusetts
to settle
quickly, to accept payment for the archive and transfer it
directly to me or
to another university that offers to purchase it. If
indeed we have to
go the distance in trial court and appellate court, there
is still a good
chance, if we win, of recouping legal expenses from the
university and/or
from the resale of the archive to another university.
Once this happens, once we win and resell the
archive to another
university, all
remaining funds, plus any earned, will be returned to the
donors with the
aim of fullest possible reimbursement.
For example, if a
total of $20,000
was donated, and $20,000 is recovered, everyone will get
100% of their
donation back. If only $10,000 is
recovered (if, for example,
legal fees are
not repaid, but we earn $10,000 reselling the archive), then
every donor will
receive back 50% of his donation.
The MEMORY BABE archive is the largest
archive of study materials
concerning Jack
Kerouac's life and work anywhere in the world.
It can be
saved only with
your help. I appeal to you now, with the
coming generations
of scholars and
writers in mind.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, for
listening and for helping.
Yours truly,
Gerald Nicosia
Return-Path:
<love_singing@email.msn.com>
From:
"sherri" <love_singing@email.msn.com>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Dove Sta Amore...
Date: Sun, 30 Nov
1997 09:21:35 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
<x-html><!DOCTYPE
HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META
content='"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript size=5>Rinaldo, these are all
wonderful.
my particular favorites are the JK (those could be my words)
and the St.
Vincent Millay.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript size=5>but tell my, caro amico, why
do you not post
more of your own poetry?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#800080 face=LoosieScript size=5>ciao, sherri</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=Arial size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Rinaldo Rasa
<<A
href="mailto:rinaldo@GPNET.IT">rinaldo@GPNET.IT</A>><BR>To:
<A
href="mailto:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU">BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</A>
<<A
href="mailto:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU">BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU</A>><BR>Date:
Sunday, November
30, 1997 8:54 AM<BR>Subject: Dove Sta
Amore...<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>>
COMPOSIZIONE
SCRITTA IN QUATTRO PARTI<BR>><BR>>#1
part<BR>>-------<BR>>
Dove Sta
Amore...
by Lawrence
Ferlinghetti<BR>><BR>>
Dove sta
amore<BR>>
Where lies
love<BR>>
Dove
sta
amore<BR>>
Here lies
love<BR>>
The
ring dove
love<BR>>
In lyrical
delight<BR>>
Hear
love's
hillsong<BR>>
Love's true
willsong<BR>>
Love's low
plainsong<BR>>
Too sweet
painsong<BR>>
In
passages of
night<BR>>
Dove sta
amore<BR>>
Here lies
love<BR>>
The
ring dove
love<BR>>
Dove sta
amore<BR>>
Here lies
love<BR>><BR>>---<BR>><BR>>#2
part<BR>>-------<BR>>year
1997, a
kid:<BR>><BR>>
"I'm
disgusted by the
life
styles<BR>>
of the baby
boomers. They
have<BR>>
sparked a new era
of social
values<BR>>
that have changed the
world<BR>>
in which I
live,<BR>>
creating a mass of
problems<BR>>
whose
ramifications<BR>>
they will not
live to
endure.<BR>><BR>>
Their
sexual revolution
has
resulted<BR>>
in a society rife
with
sexually<BR>>
transmitted
diseases;<BR>>
the institution of
the
family<BR>>
has deteriorated to
the
point<BR>>
of
disfunctionality.<BR>><BR>>
The
baby boomers' use
of
narcotics<BR>>
has destroyed
many of my peers<BR>>
in a circle of
unbridled drug use and
addiction."<BR>><BR>>---<BR>>#3
part<BR>>-------<BR>>year
1959, Jack
Kerouac:<BR>><BR>>"...because the only
people for me are
the mad ones, the
ones<BR>>who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved,
desirous
of<BR>>everything, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow
roman<BR>>candles
exploding like spiders across the stars and in
the<BR>>middle
you see the blue centrelight pop and everybody
goes<BR>>'Awww!'..."<BR>><BR>>---<BR>>#4
part<BR>>-------<BR>>year
1920, Edna St. Vincent
Millay:<BR>><BR>>"My
candle burns at both ends;<BR>>it will not
last the
night;<BR>>but ah, my foes, and oh, my
friends-<BR>>it gives a
lovely
light!"<BR>><BR>>---<BR>>un
saluto a tutti
da<BR>>Rinaldo.<BR>></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>To:
"sherri" <love_singing@email.msn.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Dove Sta Amore...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01bcfdb4$68a95640$48e0fed0@default>
References:
sherri wrote:
> my particular favorites are the JK (those
could be my words) and the
>St. Vincent
Millay. but tell my, caro amico, why do you not post more of
>your own
poetry? ciao, sherri
sherri, ti
ringrazio per le tue gentili parole,
(come sempre), mi
sembra che tu sia la mia piu'
affezionata
"fan" poetica, percio' ti ringrazio
di cuore, cari
saluti da rinaldo.Return-Path: <babu@electriciti.com>
X-Sender:
babu@pop.electriciti.com (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec
1997 00:14:16 -0700
To: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: the
watteau self portrait (babu)
Cc:
agit8@hotmail.com, ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu, beach@qconline.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us,
ChrisHein@aol.com, Dfroley@aol.com,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>, EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com, Gerald Houghton
<houghtong@globalnet.co.uk>,
Raminocs@aol.com, jill@jillbell.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
GoRimbaud@aol.com,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, RACE --- <race@midusa.net>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
dracon@armory.com,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
googie@wam.umd.edu, tpreece@pacbell.net
always liked that
expression that said 'keep one in the fridge for later'.
probably
would. fry it up with children in the
bonfire of my my my fuck.
Saw Karole
Armitage on television tonight. what I
wouldn't give to lick
the sweat off
her. Inspiration. Bodies in motion. quick precise,
psychology, punk,
oh oh, punk. dancing. Wasn't what I was expecting. ow.
sore from hitting
the balls too hard.
nine steps she
said. nine steps. so every morning I try to do my 1000
meters. Can't tell if I'm getting healthy or
numb. fucking scary. let
the blood blow,
flow, pick a scab and watch it bleed.
get back. get
black. no. go
farther back. farther. maybe I'll tell you when to stop.
motherfucker.
hm. hm.
hm. punk bodies in motion. 'god save...' ow ow ow slam you
right up ow ow 'god saves' oh, I must be getting conservative. mommy,
put my head into
your lap? make the big car stop, I'm
mommy, e coli
barbarella. heterocentric and outside it all. yeah right, motherfucker.
bland for the
camera, Tricky. Read an interview where
he said Kurt Cobain
was the greatest
songwriter. motherfucker. so against, can't even smile
at you
anymore. wanna push, down deeper
waters. the rum, the wine, the
beers, no buzz as
good as the marijuana. fuck. fuck fuck fuc.
no soul left to
bleed. in velvet lines, with virginal
brides :: soon
there will only
be you :-)
xo, Douglas
the watteau
self-portrait::
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/Self_portrait.html
To: tristan
saldana <hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Michael McClure and Jim Morrison.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.971205144946.449A-100000@csun1.csun.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971205224805.00b746dc@pop.gpnet.it>
At 14.57 05/12/97
-0800, tristan saldana wrote:
>I saw McClure
and Manzarek at the LA County Museum of Art in October.
>They had a
one-hour gig. McClure performed his
poetry and Manzarek did
>the
interpreting with the piano. Manzarek
played "Riders on the Storm" to
>one of
McClures pieces. It was quite good. Manzarek and McClure said the
>there is an
Egyptian belief that whenever you say a person's name that
>you, in
effect, resurrect their spirit. They
closed with saying Jim's
>name.
>
>Tristan
>
Hello Tristan,
thanks for the memories,
i ask u the
permission to add yr name to
the list of
contributors to the BeatSuperNova web site,
and add yr fine
comment updating "The Doors" and McClure reference,
un caro saluto da
Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
Return-Path:
<blackj@bigmagic.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Dec
1997 10:10:39 -0500
From: Al
Aronowitz <blackj@bigmagic.com>
Reply-To:
blackj@bigmagic.com
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
found a quote (was Re: Dylan)
X-Info: Visit the
Internet Cafe On-Line at http://www.bigmagic.com.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> At 06.55
07/12/97 -0500, Al Aronowitz wrote:
> >CARO
RINALDO: Please, can you tell me what is
the source of that
>
>statement: "Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone
>
>else's." (To which I might also
add Bob Dylan changed MY life like
> >everyone
else's.) Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg,
the Beatles, Bob
> >Dylan! Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz
> >--
>
>***************************************
> >Al
Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
>
>http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
> >
>
> caro Al,
buona giornata, (good day)
>
> first
source:
> i remember
the Dylan's OTR proposition was quoted by
> poet Ron
Whitehead as a tribute to the 40th
> anniversary
of Jack's masterpiece 1th printed.
> by the way
> what
happened to Ron? why he do not come back
> to beat-L he
left a year ago?
>
> second source:
> Steve
Turner's book titled
>
"Angelheaded Hipster. A life of Jack Kerouac"
> have a
dedication to Bob Dylan (the quote on the
> back of
summary page).
> i hope this
help,
> un caro
saluto a tutti,
> Rinaldo.
> * "some
real hot things in the Bible"--- jack kerouac *
RINALDO: Thank
you. --Al
--
***************************************
Al Aronowitz THE
BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
Return-Path:
<root>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec
1997 07:00:51 +0100 (MET)
From: root (Admin)
To: acctmgr,
rinaldo
Subject: Avviso
scadenza 'rinaldo' (0 gg.)
Gentile Cliente,
La informiamo che il suo abbonamento alla
rete GP Net
scadra' oggi.
Cogliamo inoltre l'occasione di informarla
che, in se-
guito all'entrata in vigore dei nuovi listini
1997, i
privati titolari di contratto
"Basic", "Family" o
"Junior" potranno rinnovare il
proprio contratto
sottoscrivendo un contratto
"Personal" di accesso 24
ore su 24, al costo di L. 440.000 + IVA.
Nel caso la sua azienda fosse intestataria di
un con-
tratto "Basic", "Full
Time" o "Full Time Office", po-
tra' attivare un contratto "Silver"
avvalendosi di uno
sconto del 10% sul prezzo di listino di L.
850.000 +
IVA, quindi al prezzo di L. 765.000 + IVA.
Questa opportunita' e' riservata solo alle
aziende che
sottoscriveranno il contratto entro il
30/06/97.
Potra' trovare maggiori informazioni sulle
modalita' e
tipologie dei contratti di abbonamento,
nonche' sui
servizi a valore aggiunto GP Net all'indirizzo
http://www.gpnet.it/listino97.htm
La preghiamo quindi di contattarci
telefonicamente ai
numeri 041/5330111, 041/5330116, oppure
all'indiriz-
zo <info-request@gpnet.it> per
permetterci di fornirle
ulteriori informazioni in merito al Suo abbonamento
che,
se non disdetto, verra' automaticamente
rinnovato.
Se avesse gia' provveduto al rinnovo non
tenga conto di
questo messaggio che viene spedito
automaticamente dal
nostro server.
Cordialmente,
GP Net S.r.l.
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec
1997 11:09:32 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Pinocchio.
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
> morning quiet
> empty row walkup flats
>
> villas black
steel
> green stairs
>
> green flowered
> hedges window
boxes
>
> barking barking
> dogs dogs
>
> BEWARE THE DOG chatter talk of
> day to day other flats
>
> barking smell of dinners
> barking mixing
>
> maybe meat
fat burning
> a day and
smell of
>
> they 'll fresh
> stop it bread
>
> thinking some one yells
> me friend in italian
>
> ---
> Rinaldo derek
> 10th dec 98 10th dec 97
To:
andyshe@ibm.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: picture
of Jack
Cc:
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\jkeagiph.jpg;
In-Reply-To:
References:
hello,
i send u the
requested photo.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy
------------
original message --------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Dec
1997 14:27:53 -0500
From:
"Robert C. Shepherd" <andyshe@ibm.net>
Reply-To:
andyshe@ibm.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.02 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
Subject: Kerouac
Request
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
NNTP-Posting-Host:
166.72.224.78
Organization:
IBM.NET
If any one has a
scanner could you please post the picture of Jack
Kerouac smoking a
cigerette on a fire escape with a book in his pocket
taken by Allen
Ginsberg
Return-Path:
<babu@electriciti.com>
X-Sender:
babu@pop.electriciti.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec
1997 23:34:02 -0700
To: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>
From: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
Subject: that was
my veil (babu)
Cc: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>, Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
"Emmanuel J. Palad" <palad@TCNJ.EDU>,
egrotke@holobyte.com,
dadaclub@hotmail.com,
LunarLeFog@AOL.COM, Marioka7@AOL.COM,
wade.maurer@smtp.nellcor.com,
samazan@law4.law.ucla.edu,
sinsco@cinenet.net,
anesthesiasf@earthlink.net,
x1cw@mail.bc.rogers.wave.ca, tamago
<tamago@psinet.net.au>,
Tahir.UN@service.raksnet.com.tr,
othwrldy@pacbell.net,
light@earthlink.net,
ranjini.mehdi@Sun.COM, powerseal@wf.net,
zvoros@direct.ca, sinergi@nwu.edu,
luriete@csus.edu, bbrace@netcom.com,
urossi@programatic.it,
eltyger@pipeline.com,
ibidem@boisdarc.tamu-commerce.edu,
mbella@earthlink.net, dan@pint.com,
chris3m@ibm.net,
jmoulton@polar.Bowdoin.EDU, Gary_Schulstad@msn.com,
smoot@panix.com, ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu,
agit8@hotmail.com,
beach@qconline.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us, azulado@AOL.COM,
ChrisHein@AOL.COM, CVEditions@AOL.COM,
Dfroley@AOL.COM,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>, thau@hotwired.com,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com,
Gerald Houghton
<houghtong@globalnet.co.uk>, gershwin@cinenet.net,
Raminocs@AOL.COM, HollyBauer@AOL.COM,
Jacrosby1@AOL.COM,
jennifer.kelly@faa.dot.gov,
jill@jillbell.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>,
mkendrick@chireader.com,
ddmoses@earthlink.net,
oktober@post.cis.smu.edu,
GoRimbaud@AOL.COM, piers@humnet.ucla.edu,
RACE --- <race@midusa.net>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
dracon@armory.com, Sherri
<love_singing@msn.com>, googie@wam.umd.edu,
tpreece@pacbell.net,
wade.maurer@smtp.nellcor.com
don't let the
oh my can't
believe it
hightlight on my
oh my
violent disease
hand's on my
intersection with
oh my
oh my
smuff
poke
pelvis thrust
160-
old women, who
are you good for?
overlap, overlap,
the better to see you
dead dead fucking
dead
salt
twisted neck
wet noodle
pocket leacher
violent eruption
reverb reberb
they can't
control me
they can't
control me
thanx, next real
please!
xo, Douglas
(p.s. I think I'm pregnant)
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/That_veil.html
=-=-=-=-
This message is
being sent to announce the closing of
the babu site ::
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
It goes offline
on December 19th, 1997.
If you'd like to
be removed from this list,
please reply with
"unsubscribe" in the subject line.
I'll probably
send out a few more times before the 19th.
Trying to tie the
loose ends on what exactly is babu.
Thank you all for
your past support (very much)! :-)
To:
blackj@bigmagic.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Creeley at 70 - October, 1996.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3491881A.6E6C@bigmagic.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971212194447.0068685c@pop.gpnet.it>
Al, pleasecheck
this web site ihope this are on-linefine photos (1)
of the meeting
tribute to Creeley and Baraka's performance i've summarized
http://wings.buffalo.edu/epc/authors/glazier/prose/creeley_70.html
saluti,
Rinaldo.
(1) anyway i post
the text:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
<Picture>Creeley
at 70 in Buffalo
a review by
Loss Pequen~o
Glazier
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DATELINE BUFFALO.
October 10th-12th, 1996. <Picture> First night: Eileen Myles, introduced
by Creeley, kicks off the 70th birthday celebration in honor of Robert Creeley
reading to a packed crowd in the large Hallwall's performance space, with its
stage bordered on three sides by the audience. Her figure animated against the
somewhat large stage, reading and letting each page of text drift to the floor
after reading it. Voice, presence, narrative rang solidly to a thoroughly
enthusiastic crowd.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Picture>Second
day: the formal opening of activities by William Greiner, UB president and
Creeley colleague who first met Creeley long-distance while Creeley was in
Finland. Then, Gil Sorrentino, fondly introduced by Joseph Conte, reading in
the Katherine Cornell Theatre, a good-sized semi-formal spaceship architecture
palace space on the edge of Buffalo's tundra-tinged north campus.
<Picture>Sorrentino
read prose from a new piece (I think forthcoming in Conjunctions). A richly
written piece, supercharged with irony, purposely laden with the banalities of
the wife-swapping (cunt-swapping more accurately by the words of its narrator)
personalities it characterized and the revolting misogyny and sexual beasty
balls of its less-than-likable narrator. Above this content, the precision of
Sorrentino's prose glimmered like a city skyline. Amiri Baraka, originally
scheduled to read with Sorrentino, was unable to appear.<Picture> Creeley
therefore gave a preview mini-reading, talking briefly and reading the full
text of his The Dogs of Auckland (approximate title) chapbook forthcoming from
Meow Press. A gorgeous piece of work.
This reading was
followed by a reception in the poetry collection and its great assembly of
rare, beautiful, and ephemeral Creeley materials and also a retrospective
(mostly small press) of poetry chez Buffalo for the past 50 years. A delirious
spread of rare and richly-diverse print artifacts that gave a varied sense of
the "scene" as passing in and out and back into the "city of no
illusions". Back at Katherine Cornell, next up was the Creeley-Dine event,
the room full to the rafters. (So packed the fire marshall was threatening to
turn back poetry-goers if they could not prove they had a seat.)
<Picture>Creeley
was introduced at length and eloquently by Susan Howe. Then an extraordinary
reading by Creeley. First an explanation of the 1-2-3 method then a 1-2-3
section from Mabel: A Story a prose work dating an early Creeley-Dine
collaboration. This was a long piece, at times dropping into choppy
Burroughsesque rhythms, other times richly wry and funny, and other times
simply sailing along tellingly. <Picture> A rare treat to witness the
performance of this important earlier prose piece. This reading was followed by
"Histoire de Florida" a later, powerful, long, languid, pulling out
like the tide and the backdrop of all-that-has-happened, rhythmic, emotional,
and meditative masterwork.
Next Dine was
introduced excellently by Charles Bernstein followed by the Creeley-Dine
conversation. Truly extraordinary, to hear these two men talk about a range of
subjects near and dear to both art and writing, "tools" of any trade,
age and its perspectives, perseverance and its perspectives, the necessities of
incessant travel and, well, all in all, what it means to hang in there. This
was a primo opportunity to hear both the writer and the artist talk.
<Picture> Creeley and Dine were terrific. It was a particularly wonderful
opportunity to hear from Dine, an artist who gets to Buffalo all too rarely,
and to hear him speak so openly, honestly, his talk as rich as writing itself,
there in the open space where things are stilled for some hours we can all hold
for the true celebration of artistic life they are. Hey, this is what it means
to hang in there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Picture>DAY
3. Back in the Katherine Cornell theatre, Susan Schultz could have had no more
style, zest, and presence than in her introduction of John Ashbery in which she
first met a man who called himself Ashbery (Bernstein) and in which she
recounted her pilgrimage to the Ashbery family apple farm not far from the site
of the present event. Ashbery's reading was first-rate. Ashbery, a poet who
will soon be the same age as the man who this gathering celebrated, performed
fully in command of his craft, reading from his latest book as well as from new
poems. Ashbery's reading was followed by a reception across the hall where
poetrygoers were able to congregate and compare notes at the penultimate chime
of this poetry celebration's verse-bent clock.
<Picture>What
could top things so far? The finale of course! The night of day three,
Hallwall's Jazz concert with Steve Kuhn and Carol Fredette. Perhaps the most
decked out I've seen Hallwall's with not only great book tables (thanks to
Talking Leaves) but also, inside, two food tables, one with the cheeses, meats,
breads, and grapes, and the other buckling under the weight of the two enormous
cakes <Picture> (one chocolate, one yellow) specially lettered for such a
day. Inside, Kuhn and Fredette got going. Standards sprinkled among renditions
of takes from the Steve Swallow release Home (ECM Records 1160) on which Sheila
Jordan did the vocals. The piano's tones, registers, chordal thunderwalls in
boots soled with celestial dust-while Fredette's scats were nourished by
dizzying drops into the deep, mellow, honey-coated lower register of her
extraordinary voice. Many numbers to stun the crowd ("She Was Young"
and "Ice Cream" among the memorable takes) and many numbers lifted
like toasts to the music ship's first mate seated with a grin and pensive
attentiveness front row center. One of the outstanding moments was Kuhn's solo
improvisation dedicated to Creeley. No piano has ever been explored, imploded,
stretched into silver multi-vocaled strands, rode into a thundered,
multi-leveled, multi-chromatic union with the absolute possibilities of sound.
As the program
was originally envisioned, Mercury Rev would've been next on stage. They had
canceled so, really, it would've been over now. But seated behind me in the
second row, humming audibly to some of the standards was the man who would do
the finale for this 70th, Amiri Baraka, introduced with incredible acumen by
Bill Fischer.
<Picture>Baraka
could've no less stormed the stage than if he had been backed by the John
Coltrane quartet itself. Baraka's small build gives one no preparation for the
immense vision, rhythm, voicing, and cadences that will emerge from the flaming
words of his performance. Invoking as central to the Yugen of Baraka's earlier
years, "the big three" of the magazine, Ginsberg (is that right?),
big Charlie Olson, and Bob Creeley. (Sorrentino, by the way, also appeared in
Yugen.) Baraka paid homage to Creeley then performed from Transbluecency and
his more recent Funk Lore (Los Angeles: Littoral Books, 1996). Baraka's
humming, chanting, and vocal renditions of the standards-a la-Baraka were in
perfect accord with the chords still lingering, clinging to the packed,
overflowing theatre. No printed text can do this! People filling all seats,
people on all sides, standing, squatting, spilling out into the Hallwalls' hallway.
Blues, transblues, transvoicings, the unbelievable coup d'etats of Baraka's
"lowcoups" (African American version of that knock-out blast commonly
associated with the haiku), and his closing triumph (slaves, dig, we were once
slaves). Indeed, it was about people, what we are, the rhythms that vibrate
through one and the same. Amiri brought it home. And home we were-at least so
is Buffalo in many senses. Oh, for a home like this. Happy birthday
celebration, Robert Creeley!
<Picture>Review
and photos: Loss Pequeño Glazier
Design: ejr
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path:
<tahirun@tahirun.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
18.cyberhost.net: Host [195.174.238.41] claimed to be tahirun.net
Date: Sat, 13 Dec
1997 19:11:49 +0000
From: Tahir Un
<tahirun@tahirun.net>
Organization:
FOTOGRAFHANE
To: runner
<babu@electriciti.com>
CC: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@oees.com>, Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>,
"Emmanuel J. Palad" <palad@TCNJ.EDU>,
egrotke@holobyte.com,
dadaclub@hotmail.com, LunarLeFog@AOL.COM,
Marioka7@AOL.COM,
wade.maurer@smtp.nellcor.com,
samazan@law4.law.ucla.edu,
sinsco@cinenet.net,
anesthesiasf@earthlink.net, x1cw@mail.bc.rogers.wave.ca,
tamago <tamago@psinet.net.au>,
Tahir.UN@service.raksnet.com.tr,
othwrldy@pacbell.net,
light@earthlink.net, ranjini.mehdi@Sun.COM,
powerseal@wf.net, zvoros@direct.ca,
sinergi@nwu.edu, luriete@csus.edu,
bbrace@netcom.com, urossi@programatic.it,
eltyger@pipeline.com,
ibidem@boisdarc.tamu-commerce.edu,
mbella@earthlink.net, dan@pint.com,
chris3m@ibm.net,
jmoulton@polar.Bowdoin.EDU, Gary_Schulstad@msn.com,
smoot@panix.com, ajensen@telecom.ucla.edu,
agit8@hotmail.com,
beach@qconline.com,
bstoffma@lausd.k12.ca.us, azulado@AOL.COM,
ChrisHein@AOL.COM, CVEditions@AOL.COM,
Dfroley@AOL.COM,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>, thau@hotwired.com,
EugeneAhn@mwp-online.com,
fi@oceanstar.com,
Gerald Houghton
<houghtong@globalnet.co.uk>, gershwin@cinenet.net,
Raminocs@AOL.COM, HollyBauer@AOL.COM,
Jacrosby1@AOL.COM,
jennifer.kelly@faa.dot.gov,
jill@jillbell.com,
6500ljn@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
mkendrick@chireader.com,
ddmoses@earthlink.net,
oktober@post.cis.smu.edu, GoRimbaud@AOL.COM,
piers@humnet.ucla.edu, RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
dracon@armory.com,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
googie@wam.umd.edu, tpreece@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: that
was my veil (babu)
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by 18.cyberhost.net id JAA01928
Babu, you're
right.
"They can't
control you".
runner wrote:
> don't let
the
> oh my can't
believe it
> hightlight
on my oh my
> violent
disease
> hand's on my
> intersection
with
> oh my
> oh my
>
> smuff
> poke
> pelvis
thrust 160-
> old women,
who are you good for?
> overlap,
overlap, the better to see you
> dead dead
fucking dead
>
> salt
> twisted neck
> wet noodle
> pocket
leacher
> violent
eruption
> reverb
reberb
> they can't
control me
> they can't
control me
>
> thanx, next
real please!
>
> xo, Douglas
>
> (p.s. I think I'm pregnant)
>
>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/images/That_veil.html
>
> =-=-=-=-
> This message
is being sent to announce the closing of
> the babu
site :: http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
> It goes
offline on December 19th, 1997.
> If you'd
like to be removed from this list,
> please reply
with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
> I'll
probably send out a few more times before the 19th.
> Trying to
tie the loose ends on what exactly is babu.
>
> Thank you
all for your past support (very much)!
:-)
--
--------
Tahir Ün
P.K. 114
Bakanliklar, 06582 - Ankara - TR.
Tel & Fax :
+90 312 44 632 50
http://www.tahirun.net
mailto:tahirun@tahirun.net
-------
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec
1997 13:26:21 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Pinocchio.
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
rinaldso
dear r - what is
yr address? xmas around the corner and xmas card for you
if i have an
address...
yrs
derek
******************************************************************
Derek Beaulieu
House Press
(limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728 3rd Ave
NW
Calgary, Alberta,
Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: xmassxmassxmassxmass
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.971215132554.19344C-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971210183339.00b7ca68@pop.gpnet.it>
Derek wrote:
>
>rinaldso
>dear r - what
is yr address? xmas around the corner and xmas card for you
>if i have an
address...
>yrs
>derek
>
>******************************************************************
>Derek
Beaulieu
>House Press
(limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
>#502-728 3rd
Ave NW
>Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1
>ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
>"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
>******************************************************************
>
Rinaldo RASA
via Morlaiter 2
30173 VENEZIA-Mestre
ITALIA
--------------------
p.s.
are u in the
bookstore
business?
are u to sold
book?
are u becoming
a capitalist?
-------------------
good luck!
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec
1997 15:15:57 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: books
& paper & words
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
rinaldo
ive been getting
into selling handmade chapbooks (handbound and
printed by me) of
poetry and
illustrations. so far i have made books by marie countryman and
one neil hennessy
and myself. very pleased with the results so far - m not
making a whole
lotta $ from this - mostly just the pleasure of producing
small things of
beauty w/ words and pictures and spreading them to people
who wanna read
them. im no capitalist - god forbid.
shalom
derek
******************************************************************
Derek Beaulieu
House Press
(limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728 3rd Ave
NW
Calgary, Alberta,
Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec
1997 21:56:28 -0600
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: picture
and pome
bravo, you are a
cool dude.
patricia
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
X-Sender:
rasa@pop.gpnet.it
Date: Wed, 17 Dec
1997 19:10:40 +0100
To: golem@rai.it
From: Rinaldo
RASA <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject:
FWD:re:TROMBE DINOSAURO (voice of dinosaur)
Cc:
a.borgnino@agora.stm.it,spherik@atmedia.it,smak@netzone.com,
bofus@mindspring.com,DrillSGT@cfddesign.com,dweezil@musicforpets.com,
Two1361@aol.com,lions23@inreach.com,brycel@goodnet.com,BoilThat@aol.com,
zcfap16@ucl.ac.uk,75162.2032@CompuServe.com,calvin@ralf.com,
redunzle@imap3.asu.edu,DN6767@aol.com,sllollaryee@earthlink.net,
caspers@worldonline.nl,ruthy@enterprise.net,fzappa@collegeclub.com,
shineman@gc.maricopa.edu,aaronb@prodigy.net,rhcpfans@coast.net,
Miyagi924@aol.com,Dogstain@aol.com,manningb@tig.com.au,rasa@gpnet.it,
leonsux@rocketmail.com,rand@telplus.net,idfxd@asu.edu,rer@asu.edu,
rodney@rodney.com,Dolphy2@aol.com,Sonamabesh@aol.com,YokoMofo@aol.com
GOLEM: ti
ringrazio per il gentile
suggerimento.
invio per conoscenze
agli amici
''virtuali'' il sito.
grazie,
rinaldo.
venezia-mestre.
rasa@gpnet.it
---------
messaggio originario --------------------
>Return-Path:
<golem@rai.it>
>Date: Tue, 17
Dec 1996 09:57:37 +0100
>From: golem
<golem@rai.it>
>To:
rasa@gpnet.it
>Subject:
TROMBRE DINOSAURO
>
>
http://www.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us/nmmnh/dinopromo.html
>
To: stratis@odyssee.net
(Antoine Maloney)
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Dinosaur
Sound - Computer Generated Sounds and Images
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<m0xXXp0-000sXhC@gpnet.it>
References:
Antoine, i send u
this web site if interested...
http://www.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us/nmmnh/soundsandimages.html
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec
1997 21:13:48 -0500
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: cool
poem on the list
Rinaldo,
Are you familiar
with the song I was quoting. It is very
humorous to
me, because of my
knowledge of the "hippie" movement.
I loved the poem
you posted. The fog thing has been haunting me
lately. Check out my
next poem. So, it hit the spot for me. Thanks for the cool poem to the
list.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
To:
waterrow@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc: rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
hello,
i've received
today yr "Water Row Books Catalogue 72"
it's fine, many
thanks, happy xmas an new year,
Rinaldo Rasa
via Morlaiter 2
30173
Venezia-Mestre
ITALIA
Return-Path:
<rwallner@CapAccess.org>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec
1997 18:20:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard
Wallner <rwallner@CapAccess.org>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
cc:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re:
(FWD) JACK BLUTARSKY
This sounds
interesting...can someone translate this?
On Tue, 23 Dec
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> Jack
Blutharski h una figura fondamentale nella beat generation. Nacque nel
> 1941 a
Davenport. Suo padre aveva un carattere piuttosto autoritario e, tra
> i 9 e i 16
anni, il giovane Jack finl 5 volte in ospedale per le botte
> ricevute.
Quando arrivr a 17 anni, in ospedale ci finl il padre, con una
> coltellata
tra le costole.
> Per fuggire
alla polizia, Jack Blutharski si nascose in California dove
> trovr lavoro
come cameriere all'Angel's pub. Era la mitica birreria
> frequentata
da Jack Kerouac, Gregory Corso, Timothy Leary, Bill
>
Ciceruacchio, il cane Dog e Fernanda Pivano.
> Fu
Blutharski a portare per la prima volta Jack Kerouac sulle scogliere di
> Big Sur e fu
lui a suggerirgli di fare un viaggetto con gli amici perchi
> non lo
vedeva molto in forma.
> Fu sempre
Jack Blutharski che una sera, mentre portava le birre al tavolo,
> chiese ad
Allen Ginsberg "Perchi le menti migliori della nostra generazione
> stanno qui a
bere come spugne?".
> Una notte in
cui Fernanda Pivano piangeva perchi non sapeva cosa fare nella
> vita, fu
Jack Blutharski a suggerirle di fare qualche traduzione
> dall'inglese
all'italiano per sbarcare il lunario.
> Come ha
scritto di recente Loren Fielding sul New Yorker, "Senza Jack
> Blutharski
forse non ci sarebbe stato qualcosa chiamato beat generation".
> Ma il suo
contributo al movimento non si ferma qui. Una recente ricerca
>
storiografica ha accertato che fu Jack Blutharski a presentare domanda al
> Sindaco di
Woodstock per un concertino country all'aperto. Poi scesero in
> pista quelli
delle case discografiche e si sa com'h andata a finire. Dieci
> anni dopo
Jack Blutharski incontrr un vecchio amico, Little Fred, un
> chitarrista
scadente che aveva messo la testa a posto e faceva l'agente di
> cambio.
Tracannarono una dozzina di birre e parlarono dei vecchi tempi,
> quando Jack
Blutharski disse "vestito cosl mi sembri yuppy". Era solo una
> parola
inventata da un ubriaco ma nel tavolo di fianco c'era una
> giornalista
di Vanity Fair. Quella sera nacquero gli anni Ottanta.
> Il seguito h
noto. Stufo di creare tendenze socio-letterarie, Jack
> Blutharski
ha finito per fondare una agenzia di comunicazione in Italia.
> L'ha
chiamata ExNovo. Dice che promette bene.
>
Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Dec
1997 19:22:29 -0500
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
To: Al Aronowitz
<blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>,
Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>,
Beverley Wood <bever@istar.ca>,
Bill Gadzia
<bgadzia@metrotech.phoenixuhsd.k12.az.us>,
Bob Davis <earthjuice@prodigy.com>,
Byron Gordon <bgordon@well.com>,
"brdong@gnn.com" <brdong@gnn.com>,
Charles and Pam Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>,
Chris Clement <clement@sc.edu>,
Colin Hartridge <colinh@wimsey.com>,
Dave Rogers <DA6ver6@aol.com>,
David Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>, Don
West <west@netgate.net>,
Edmund Prytherch
<prythee@westinghouse.com>,
Elliott New
<ElliottAndTheUntouchables@usa.net>,
"Etchingham@aol.com"
<Etchingham@aol.com>,
Frank Adams <fadams@scsn.net>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
Glenn Cooper <coopergw@mpx.com.au>,
James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>,
Jean Ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>, Jerry
Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>,
Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>,
Jim Morrow <jmorro19@chicagonet.net>,
jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
John Matt Dorn
<zenmatt@sprintmail.com>,
karisue
<karisue@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>,
Karl Geisler <"\"Karl J.
Geisler\" <kgeisler"@me.umn.edu>>,
"Kdion11@aol.com"
<Kdion11@aol.com>,
LAURA R THEOBALD
<LauraLegoLady@prodigy.com>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>, Lucy
Jeffers <jeffreys@un.org>,
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>,
Mary and Dan Matthews
<surfdance@iceinternet.com>,
Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
Pim Boss <voodoo.chile@wxs.nl>,
"R. Jeffrey Shows, D.C."
<docfind@scsn.net>,
"R. Shawn Deveau"
<rdeveau@ccinet.ab.ca>,
Richard Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>, Robert
Johnson <robertj@mbay.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
"Sing H. Li"
<shl3771@aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com>,
Stan Wilkes
<wilkesfamily@worldnet.att.net>,
Steve Pesant <spesant@direct.ca>,
Steven Roby <scroby@pacbell.net>,
Tom Brown <tbaylor@forbin.com>,
Tony brown <a.brown@hendrix-archives.demon.co.uk>,
victor lewin <ak036@chebucto.ns.ca>,
Wally <AnnaWally@aol.com>,
Walter Gibson <walter@jerryjeff.com>
Subject: Happy
Holidays
Hello to all:
I wanted to send
out a cyber card to some of my "cyber friends." As I
reflect on the
last year, one that has been difficult for me, I
appreciate the
link that the WWW gives us. It is a
place where we can
communicate in
unique ways with people we would not otherwise meet. We
can share
thoughts and ideas, as well as a (LOL) laugh.
In many ways we
are lucky to have
this as a supplement to "real life."
So, I wanted all
of you to know
that I appreciate the communication and the sharing over
the year.
I think about the
media and how most of what sells is the "bad" side of
life. Our communication here reminds us that there
is a lot of good
that is not
"newsworthy" going on in the world too. That is something
for which we all
may be thankful.
I can honestly
say that the best moment of this Christmas for me was
seeing two
things. One was my mother's face when
she found out that my
family was giving
her a computer. It really touched her
and is worth
any amount of
money. (Even though I live in fear that
she will find the
Hey Joe mail list
and show up to tell stories about how her son wouldn't
let her go see
Hendrix with him! :-)) The other was the pictures on
the news last
night of the meals provided by a local church to anyone
who came. One man interviewed was just released from
prison and
homeless. In response to how he felt about the meal, he
responded, "I
am lucky. It is raining and cold out there. I should be dead. Instead
I am dry, warm
and this is a great meal. Yeah, I got a
lot to be
thankful
for."
A line from
Dylan's new album sticks in my mind. He
says, more or less,
"when you
think that you have lost everything, you always find out you
can lose a little
more." Which, it occurs to me,
shows that we always
have a little
more that we can be thankful for too. I
have tried to
stay in that
frame of mind, but lately it hasn't been easy.
So, here is my
Holiday wish, prayer and meditation for all of us, that
we all will find
a way to remember the good in life at any time we feel
low, and that we
will find a way to continue to bring love to those
around us. No matter what the difficulty. If we can, the world will
certainly be the
better for it.
Thanks to all of
you and Happy Holidays.
Jimi tag: Not necessarily stoned but beautiful.
Jerry Jeff Walker
tag: Letting the high times carry the
load.
Roger and Camilla
McGuinn tag: Crossing that bridge, Can
take a little
courage, The
hardest part, Is knowing what love is.
Johnny Winter
tag: Still alive and well.
Bob Dylan
tag: Trying to get to Heaven before they
close the door.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
To:
silva@realbeer.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: about
Bukowski
Cc:
josep@icmab.es
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
---------
original message ---------------------------------
I just wanna
comment two things about Hank :
1. I think
Charles Bukowski (and his literature staff)
was more
appreciated here in Europe than in USA. The day
Bukowski died,
most of the spanish newpapers (I am Spanish)
dedicated him a
page or a page and a half, and that is very
much for a
writer, here in Spain. some bookstores dedicated
a special place
for its books and a theatre play based in
his texts was
performed. I think that this is a nice tribute
to Hank.
2. About Bukowski
books I miss two tittles :
"Run with
the hunted" (1993) and
"Quello che
mi importa e grattarmi sotto le ascelle" (1982).
The former
collection of texts, shorts stories and
poems describing
Hanks live. The latter an interview
with Fernanda
Pivano (an italian journalist) that
could be
translated as the most I like is to scrabe
my armhole. Did
you hear about this two books?.
Anyway, it has
been a great experience for me
to visit your
Bukowski page.
thanks for your
attention. Josep Llacay
--------- end
original message ------------------------------
Josep, buon
giorno,
circa Bukowski's
mentioned book
"Quello che
mi importa e grattarmi sotto le ascelle" (1982)
is fairly easy to
find in an italian bookstore as many of
others bukowski
works-- in Italia the bukowski fortune is great
as u mentioned in
Spagna (yr country), the bookshelves are
always filled
with a lot of buk works-- by the way: ho notato
che hai citato il
libro con il titolo in italiano, per caso
parli o scrivi in
italiano? -- concerning Fernanda Pivano i
agree her
devotion to american writers and performers is a
great treasure --
if u read the "Album Americano" (1996) she
writes [Neanche
uno della mia trentina di libri e' uscito
in America e non
so le volte che qualche autore italiano mi
ha aggredito
chiedendomi perche' lavoravo al ''servizio
dell'America'' e
non facevo tradurre nessun italiano-- La mia
felicita'
comincia quando un autore sconosciuto in Italia
e considerato
impubblicabile mi telefona e mi dice:"You made
me
famous"][none of my thirty books was translated in america,
but in italy a
lot of writer charge me attendance to America.
i'm happy when an
unknown writer call "you made me famous"
because of my
works arent published in my own country]-- at
the moment Pivano
is 80 years old and fluke the Pivano archive
'll be collected
by Benetton Group otherwise the papers was
assigned to be
dispersed-- the Pivano interview to Charles
Bukowski is truly
a wonder "Di solito staccava una rosa da
una delle siepi
di fronte alla sua porta d'ingresso e me la
offriva
baciandomi la mano come un cavaliere vittoriano dell'
Ottocento. Ebbi
la debolezza di raccontare questo particolare
che mi faceva
tanta tenerezza a un giornalista un po' sbrigativo
che riusci' ad
avvicinarlo e gli chiese con ironia se era vero
o se me lo ero
inventato. Pare che Bukowski l'abbia guardato
con uno di quei
soffocanti risentimenti, insaccando il collo
come King kong,
come fceva quando gli giravano le scatole, e
gli abbia
risposto:"Certo che e' vero. Perche'? Viene qui una
gentile signora
che ha passato la vita in Italia per aiutare
noi scrittori
americani e cosa volevate che le facessi, che la
stuprassi?"--
any other info or
help u can email cc: rinaldo@gpnet.it
-- i've fwd yr
letter to the BEAT-L: Beat Generation List
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
Venezia-Mestre,Italia
Return-Path:
<VegasDaddy@aol.com>
From: VegasDaddy
<VegasDaddy@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec
1997 02:16:05 EST
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: gli
italiani
Organization: AOL
(http://www.aol.com)
Ciao signore, mi
chiamo Antonio Celentano e sono (come se dice "a member of
the Beat-L
group"). Leggeva i suoi (come si
dice "posts to the list") nella
Beat-L e mi
piacevano molto. Sono di New York ma la
mia famiglia e di
Sicilia, e mi
piace molto la lingua e la cultura italiana.
Posso domandare
una cosa? Sto cercando di imparare italiano (studiava
italiano per un anno in
scuola a
California, e studiero(?) di piu quest'anno).
Come si (se?) dice in
italiano
"good luck?" Un uomo me ha
detto che non si dice "buona fortuna," ed
io ho detto
"E "buona fortuna", lo so!"
Molto grazie per il suo risposto(?),
Antonio Celentano
(come Adriano, il grande cantante)
To: VegasDaddy
<VegasDaddy@aol.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: gli
italiani
Cc:
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<f2f81c0d.34a4ab37@aol.com>
References:
At 02.16 27/12/97
EST, Antonio Celentano wrote:
>
>
>Ciao signore,
mi chiamo Antonio Celentano e sono (come se dice "a member of
>the Beat-L
group"). Leggeva i suoi (come si
dice "posts to the list") nella
>Beat-L e mi
piacevano molto. Sono di New York ma la
mia famiglia e di
>Sicilia, e mi
piace molto la lingua e la cultura italiana.
Posso domandare
>una
cosa? Sto cercando di imparare italiano
(studiava italiano per un anno in
>scuola a
California, e studiero(?) di piu quest'anno).
Come si (se?) dice in
>italiano
"good luck?" Un uomo me ha
detto che non si dice "buona fortuna," ed
>io ho detto
"E "buona fortuna", lo so!"
Molto grazie per il suo risposto(?),
>
>Antonio
Celentano (come Adriano, il grande cantante)
>
>
Caro Antonio,
felice giornata,
thanks for the
gentle words and i'm very luck (fortunato)
to meet a paesano
in the Beat-L-- yr italian language,
i think is much
better than my english language...--
yr italian is
good and i exorth u to continue, and of course
i wish you good
luck! = buona fortuna!
u are right
"good luck" means "buona fortuna", i dunno why
the person told u
wrong traslation-- of course buona fortuna
in both
colloquial and formal use-- digging the meaning of
buona fortuna
it's possible to use the statement
"in bocca al
lupo" but it's idiomatic, and it's a bit out of use
at the moment in
Italia, i prefer buona fortuna--
per il momento ti
saluto caramente e se hai bisogno di
qualsiasi aiuto
i'm happy to help you, let me know when
u need,
ancora tanti cari
saluti e buone feste da
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<VegasDaddy@aol.com>
From: VegasDaddy
<VegasDaddy@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Dec
1997 23:27:12 EST
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Le scale
di Roma
Organization: AOL
(http://www.aol.com)
Caro Rinaldo -
Molto grazie per rispondere e per il suo aiuto, ora ho bisogno
di uscire e non
posso scrivere molto ma tu devi sapere che il suo inglese e
molto
bene...posso sapere (?) che leggi Kerouac e gli altri Angeli Caduti,
perche scrivi
bene in inglese come un beat scrittore.
Una domanda per te:
io penso che
Gregory Corso e il migliore (come se dice poet?) dei Beats...what
do gli italiani
think of this great and beatific paesano?
Buona settimana e
ciaobello,
Antonio
To: VegasDaddy
<VegasDaddy@aol.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Le
scale di Roma
Cc:
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\IMMAGINI\gcpv.jpg;
In-Reply-To:
<d75c3b7.34a87822@aol.com>
References:
Antonio writes:
>
>Caro Rinaldo
- Molto grazie per rispondere e per il suo aiuto, ora ho bisogno
>di uscire e
non posso scrivere molto ma tu devi sapere che il suo inglese e
>molto
bene...posso sapere (?) che leggi Kerouac e gli altri Angeli Caduti,
>perche scrivi
bene in inglese come un beat scrittore.
Una domanda per te:
>io penso che
Gregory Corso e il migliore (come se dice poet?) dei Beats...what
>do gli
italiani think of this great and beatific paesano? Buona settimana e
>ciaobello,
>
>Antonio
>
Caro Antonio,
grazie per i
complimenti,
tu sai certamente
che molti italiani per lavoro o per scelta
dall'inizio di
questo secolo hanno avuto bisogno per lavoro o
per altro
emigrare, e si sono trovati bene nei paesi dove sono stati
accolti, America,
Canada, Australia, Francia, Svizzera. la cultura
dei paesi
d'accoglienza sono sempre stati un patrimonio poi
della nostra
tradizione. Italia is an ancient culture and i
like u Antonio is
to retrieve the language of yr ancient people
( this isn't an arrogant statement, i love the american
culture
(u know of
course, excuse me) but everyone might to become as he was/is
as a world is the
same for everybody... i love Kerouac because
he is american
but search his longtime ancient roots).
Gregory Corso has
a great place in the beat lit
and Fernanda
Pivano has a special feeling to his poetry and thought
( i think that
the NUKE is everything the people REALLY fear).
il beat,
credo, e' pensare alle proprie origini e
capire come mai siamo
arrivati a questo
punto qualsiasi sia il mondo dal quale siamo
partiti.
Ho diversi
parenti che sono stati in Canada (Edmonton),
oppure in Switzerland (Zurich), Germany, & others
country.
our paesano
Gregorio Corso is loved by Pivano (see gcpv.jpg)
the italian
translator, she translates the main works of the
beat generation,
i hope, spero, che
tu Antonio continui a scrivermi,
grazie mio
paesano italiano, buon 1998!,
tanti cari
saluti,
Rinaldo.
------------------
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: yr
postcard
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.971215151213.30266A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971215223836.006866b0@pop.gpnet.it>
Derek,
today what a
surprise!
yr card in my
mailbox,
thanks a lot for
the salutes,
this remind me
the 60s' when
my aunt was
living in
Edmonton,
(Alberta), and send
those wondeful
picture post card
from whom i
became a fan of
the land u are
living,
the card is
wonderful and
it's a GREAT
start for yr
house press,
have my best
greetings,
i miei piu' cari
saluti,
Rinaldo.
Venezia, 5
gennaio 1998.
------------------------
To: Johan
Gotthardt Olsen <johan@DARWIN.KI.KU.DK>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
photo wanted
Cc:
Bcc:
johan@xray.ki.ku.dk
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199801071240.NAA07930@darwin.ki.ku.dk>
References:
johan says:
>I know of a
photograph of Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady standing
>together,
Cassady to the left, head kinked in a funny way, Kerouac to
>the right, serene
(ironic, impatient?). I saw it used as a 'On The
>Road' cover
(....)
>Johan
>
johan, i hope at
the moment friends have already help
u. but if this is
not the case i've the cover u mentioned,
let me know if u
are interested &i email u a giffed picture.
saluti,
rinaldo.
venice-mestre,italy.
Return-Path:
<johan@darwin.ki.ku.dk>
From:
johan@darwin.ki.ku.dk (Johan Gotthardt Olsen)
Subject: The
Picture
To:
rinaldo@home.gpnet.it
Date: Thu, 8 Jan
1998 09:00:33 +0100 ("MET)
Hi Rinaldo,
Thanks for your
reply on the photo I asked about on the BEAT-L
network. You
don't know how long I have been looking for that picture!
In Denmark, the
beat writers are not very well known and the books are
difficult to get.
YES, I would very
much like a gif (or any other format) of that cover
you have if it is
not too inconvenient. I would appreciate it
immensely!
Johan
To:
johan@darwin.ki.ku.dk (Johan Gotthardt Olsen)
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
Picture
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\ARCH\jackneal.gif;
In-Reply-To:
<199801080800.JAA09216@darwin.ki.ku.dk>
References:
Johan wrote:
>Hi Rinaldo,
>
>Thanks for
your reply on the photo I asked about on the BEAT-L
>network. You
don't know how long I have been looking for that picture!
>In Denmark,
the beat writers are not very well known and the books are
>difficult to
get.
>
>YES, I would
very much like a gif (or any other format) of that cover
>you have if
it is not too inconvenient. I would appreciate it
>immensely!
>
>Johan
>
>
hello Johan,
i send u the
picture, it's the cover of
the Jack
Kerouac's "On the Road" penguin books 1991.
if the
technicality of the image isnt good, let me
know & i do
it better. another source of great photos
of jack and the
beats are in
the Steve
Turner's "Angelheaded Hipster. A life of JK",
that i've in
italian translation, there's into a lot of
_very_ good
picture! u might pick up this book.
keep in touch,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
Venezia-Mestre,Italia.
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan
1998 11:46:07 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: sculpt
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
rr
shape the
words to
fit the s
hape of t
he column
creat-ing
tension o
f geograp
hy in a n
onphysica
l space..
thank you
rinaldora
sa
yrs
derek
******************************************************************
Derek Beaulieu
House Press
(limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)
#502-728 3rd Ave
NW
Calgary, Alberta,
Canada, T2N 0J1
ph.
(403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357
"remove
literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac
******************************************************************
Return-Path:
<yfeng@public1.tpt.tj.cn>
From: "Yan
Feng" <yfeng@public1.tpt.tj.cn>
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Anniversary of Gulf War
Date: Tue, 20 Jan
1998 03:39:03 +0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Rinaldo,
my postings are
always two lines,
which, i think,
reminds you of the Peace Poem.
:-) In fact, it
is due to my shortage of english ability. besides, I am
silent man.
Best,
Yan
>Yan,
>have you seen
the Peace Poem?
>Over 400
schools from 38 countries contributed to the Peace Poem by
>submitting,
via e-mail, two lines of poetry each to the United Nations. The
>lines were
compiled into a single poem, called the Peace Poem.
>
>http://www.un.org/Pubs/CyberSchoolBus/peaceday/poem/poem.htm
>
>
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan
1998 15:55:07 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: rinaldo rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: RINALDO,
you are so sweet
rinaldo, thankyou
for posting that pome to the list. we have not had
much riting to
one another lately, but i always feel your concern and
love and your
wonder at the world.
i am very touched
love
marie
(ps: it's one of
my favorites, too)
To: "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Crossroads
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34C9723C.71D07D2B@scsn.net>
References:
Bentz, god day,
i'm asking u the
permission to
add yr wonder
poem to the poetry section in the
Beat SuperNova,
www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
i like poetry
written in honour or tribute to friend
i hope u are
agree, im' waiting for a feedback,
is the following
the right poem?
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
-------
Robert Johnson's
Crossroads
(A tribute to a
Blues Man from the crossroads.)
Columbia 22
Went down to the
Crossroads
Camden 25
Tried to flag a
ride.
Sumter 22
Got hellhounds on
my trail.
Orangeburg 25
Have my sweet
rider by my side.
Crossroads
Jesus Saves
Turn to Jesus or
Burn in Hell
Wilson.
Will son.
Will's son.
Will's son cross.
Will's son cross
road.
Will's son cross
roads.
Will's son cross
roads Jesus.
Will's son cross
roads Jesus saves.
Will's son cross
roads Jesus saves Columbia.
(No he didn't
Sherman burnt it! That is why you can't
trace title
beyond 1865.)
Will's son cross
roads Jesus saves Camden.
(Well he might
have, ask Cornwallis!)
Will's son cross
roads Jesus saves Sumter.
(Depends, one
wing in the Persian Gulf tonight.)
Will's son cross
roads Jesus saves Orangeburg.
(Crack alleys,
murder rate, unemployment, kids with guns, not likely.)
Will's son cross
roads Jesus saves or Burn in Hell.
Me, I just want
to get some gas and take a piss.
But, it is spooky
here, at a crossroads that is exactly 22, 25, 22, 25.
Did Robert
Johnson meet ole scratch here, or does Jesus Save?
Tried to flag a
ride.
That's what the
sign says.
No body seemed to
know me.
But maybe that
was back in Wilson.
House down by the
riverside.
Will cross road
son.
Break in on a
dollar most any place she goes.
Will road cross
son.
They all just
passed me by.
Son will cross
road.
Got tamales and
they are red hot, yeah got em for sale.
Son cross Will
Road.
Dead shirmps
blues.
Son road cross
Will.
Believe it's much
too light.
Cross road son
will.
She got a
mortgage on my body.
Crossroads.
And a lien on my
soul.
--
Return-Path:
<ncary@clark.net>
X-Authentication-Warning:
shell.clark.net: ncary owned process doing -bs
Date: Sat, 24 Jan
1998 17:29:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ncary
<ncary@clark.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Your
poem
Dear Rinaldo,
I liked so much
your poem that began:
amico mio
IWasStonedManyYearsAgo&TodayICannotRecognizedAnyDifference
AmongWITTGENSTEINandWELTANSHAAUNGisTheCatYouMetCalledSchopenhauer
OrSchrodingerOrTheMutantEngineLikeSpencerTracyOrTheAnarchistSpencer
ISawMyShadowABitLargeTodayWaitingForTheBusAndAllBusesGoToVeniceAndTheSun
EnlargeMyShadowTheSunEnlargedMyShadowIWasIntriguedByTheShadowTheNiteFallIn
It made me
remember Schrodinger and his unfortunate feline.
I also have been
trying to figure out the Italian in your messages with
the help of a
Portuguese friend..online.
But all we come
up with is an unsatisfacotry mix of POrtuguese and
English...but it
was fun trying.
Nina, writing
from a very unsunny Washington DC
Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan
1998 18:16:31 -0500
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Crossroads
Rinaldo;
Thank you for
your wonderful message. Please use my
poem at the site as
you wish. This is the poem. I enjoy reading your posts. That makes this
list a good one
to be on.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> Bentz, god
day,
> i'm asking u
the permission to
> add yr
wonder poem to the poetry section in the
> Beat
SuperNova,
>
www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
> i like
poetry written in honour or tribute to friend
>
> i hope u are
agree, im' waiting for a feedback,
> is the
following the right poem?
>
> cari saluti
da
> Rinaldo.
> -------
>
> Robert
Johnson's Crossroads
> (A tribute
to a Blues Man from the crossroads.)
>
> Columbia 22
> Went down to
the Crossroads
> Camden 25
> Tried to
flag a ride.
> Sumter 22
> Got
hellhounds on my trail.
> Orangeburg
25
> Have my
sweet rider by my side.
> Crossroads
> Jesus Saves
> Turn to
Jesus or Burn in Hell
> Wilson.
> Will son.
> Will's son.
> Will's son
cross.
> Will's son
cross road.
> Will's son
cross roads.
> Will's son
cross roads Jesus.
> Will's son
cross roads Jesus saves.
> Will's son
cross roads Jesus saves Columbia.
> (No he
didn't Sherman burnt it! That is why you
can't trace title
> beyond
1865.)
> Will's son
cross roads Jesus saves Camden.
> (Well he
might have, ask Cornwallis!)
> Will's son
cross roads Jesus saves Sumter.
> (Depends,
one wing in the Persian Gulf tonight.)
> Will's son
cross roads Jesus saves Orangeburg.
> (Crack
alleys, murder rate, unemployment, kids with guns, not likely.)
> Will's son
cross roads Jesus saves or Burn in Hell.
> Me, I just
want to get some gas and take a piss.
> But, it is
spooky here, at a crossroads that is exactly 22, 25, 22, 25.
> Did Robert
Johnson meet ole scratch here, or does Jesus Save?
> Tried to
flag a ride.
> That's what
the sign says.
> No body
seemed to know me.
> But maybe
that was back in Wilson.
> House down
by the riverside.
> Will cross
road son.
> Break in on
a dollar most any place she goes.
> Will road
cross son.
> They all
just passed me by.
> Son will
cross road.
> Got tamales
and they are red hot, yeah got em for sale.
> Son cross
Will Road.
> Dead shirmps
blues.
> Son road
cross Will.
> Believe it's
much too light.
> Cross road
son will.
> She got a
mortgage on my body.
> Crossroads.
> And a lien
on my soul.
> --
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
To:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Crossroads
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34CA764E.D9309F41@scsn.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980124202634.006c3b08@pop.gpnet.it>
Bentz wrote:
>Rinaldo;
>
>Thank you for
your wonderful message. Please use my
poem at the site as
>you
wish. This is the poem. I enjoy reading your posts. That makes this
>list a good
one to be on.
>
Bentz,
thanks a lot, now
the poetry page is updated at
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/nampoets.htm
grazie ancora e
cari saluti,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan
1998 15:17:07 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: rinaldo rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: hello,
my friend
hello rinaldo,
it's been a long time between our 'visits'; thankyou so
much for first
posting the lyrics and then giving me the title. i hope
this finds you
well and happy.
love,
marie
To:
babu@electriciti.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: hi
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
i visit yr home
page today...Return-Path: <cawilkie@comic.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb
1998 16:59:20 -0600
From:
cawilkie@comic.net
Reply-To:
cawilkie@comic.net
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject:
re:language is a virus lyrics
Rinaldo:
oh thank you thank
you thank you thank you.
i had asked quite
awhile back if anyone had these lyrics and could post
them. i thank you to the bottom of my heart for
doing so.
peace,
cathy
> Subject:
> LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS (Laurie Anderson)
> Date:
> Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:03:22 +0100
> From:
> Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>
>
> LANGUAGE IS
A VIRUS vocals:Laurie
Anderson
>
> Paradise
> Is exactly
like
> Where you
are right now
> Only much
much
> Better.
>
> I saw this
guy on the train
> And he
seemed to have gotten stuck
> In one of
those abstract trances.
> And he was
going: "Ugh...Ugh...Ugh..."
>
> And Fred
said:
> "I
think he's in some kind of pain.
> I think it's
a pain cry."
> And I said:
"Pain cry?
> Then
language is a virus."
>
> Language!
It's a virus!
> Language!
It's a virus!
>
> Well I was
talking to a friend
> And I was
saying:
> I wanted
you.
> And I was
looking for you.
> but I
couldn't find you. I couldn't find you.
> And he said:
Hey!
> Are you
talking to me?
> Or are you
just practicing
> For one of
those performances of yours?
> Huh?
>
> Language!
It's a virus!
> Language!
It's a virus!
>
> He said: I
had to write that letter to your mother.
> And I had to
tell the judge that it was you.
> And I had to
sell the car and go to Florida.
> Because
that's just my way of saying It's a
charm.
> That I love
you. And I It's a
job.
> Had to call
you at the crack of down
> Why?
> And list the
times that I've been wrong.
> Cause that's
just my way of saying
> That I'm
sorry.
>
It's a job.
>
> Language!
It's a virus!
> Language!
It's a virus!
>
> Paradise
> Is exactly
like
> Where you
are right now
> Only much
much It's a shipwreck,
> Better. It's a job.
>
> You know? I
don't believe there's such
> a thing as
TV. I mean --
> They just keep
showing you
> The same
pictures over and over.
> And when
they talk they just make sounds
> That more or
less synch up
> With their
lips.
> That's what
I think!
>
> Language!
It's a virus!
> Language!
It's a virus!
> Language!
It's a virus!
>
> Well I
dreamed there was an island
> That rose up
from the sea
> And
everybody on the island
> Was somebody
from TV.
> And there
was a beautiful view
> But nobody
could see.
> Cause
everybody on the island
> Was saying:
Look at me! Look at me!
> Look at me! Look at me!
>
> Because they
all lived on an island
> That rose up
from the sea
> And
everybody on the island
> Was somebody
from the TV.
> And there
was a beutiful view
> But nobody
could see.
> Cause
everybody on the island
> Was saying:
Look at me! Look at me!
> Look at me! Why?
>
> Paradise is
exactly like
> Where you
are right now
> Only much
much better.
>
> "LANGUAGE IS A
VIRUS
> FROM OUTER
SPACE."
> -- William S.
Burroughs
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb
1998 17:17:39 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: shit
thank you,
rinaldo, my tender hearted friend.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> salve
Marie!,
> if u like
send me everything at the following
>
address: rinaldo@gpnet.it
>
> notice on
the CNN that Rudyard Kipling's love of Vermont
> Birthplace
of the 'Jungle Books'
>
> cari saluti
dall'Italia,
>
> Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb
1998 20:00:15 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: shit
many of people in
vermont still without power now for over a week, but
we are lucky:
warm and dry inside, warmer and slushy outside. i have
been very sad
lately, many friends in hospital, others moving, all doing
what they need to
do for them, but leaving me sad and lonely.
i however have
found a wonderful coffee shop in my town, i went there
today to write,
and the people are so kind and warm and we all talked,
across tables,
with the wait staff, all happy in this lovely little
place. i think i
will go there very often.
thank you so much
for your warmth and caring,
my dear friend,
love
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie, here
it's 11:18 pm i'm by to go to sleep,
> what are u
doing, and the weather?
> tell me
please'
> rin
> At 17.17
04/02/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >thank
you, rinaldo, my tender hearted friend.
> >
> >Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
> >
> >>
salve Marie!,
> >> if
u like send me everything at the following
> >>
address: rinaldo@gpnet.it
> >>
> >>
notice on the CNN that Rudyard Kipling's love of Vermont
> >>
Birthplace of the 'Jungle Books'
> >>
> >>
cari saluti dall'Italia,
> >>
> >>
Rinaldo.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
To:
country@sover.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: shit
Cc:
country@sover.net
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802041913.OAA01577@pike.sover.net>
References:
salve Marie!,
if u like send me
everything at the following
address: rinaldo@gpnet.it
notice on the CNN
that Rudyard Kipling's love of Vermont
Birthplace of the
'Jungle Books'
cari saluti
dall'Italia,
Rinaldo.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: shit
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802042219.RAA02349@pike.sover.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980204231224.00688d28@pop.gpnet.it>
marie, here it's
11:18 pm i'm by to go to sleep,
what are u doing,
and the weather?
tell me please'
rin
At 17.17 04/02/98
+0000, you wrote:
>thank you,
rinaldo, my tender hearted friend.
>
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>> salve
Marie!,
>> if u
like send me everything at the following
>>
address: rinaldo@gpnet.it
>>
>> notice
on the CNN that Rudyard Kipling's love of Vermont
>>
Birthplace of the 'Jungle Books'
>>
>> cari
saluti dall'Italia,
>>
>> Rinaldo.
>
>
>
>
>To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
buonanotte marie
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802042219.RAA02349@pike.sover.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980204231224.00688d28@pop.gpnet.it>
it's time to me
to go bed. ciao marie. i've standing
a while for a
reply but now i get off...Return-Path: <u2ginsberg@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb
1998 13:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Maggie
Gerrity <u2ginsberg@yahoo.com>
Subject: pater
noster
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Rinaldo,
Thanks for the post. It brings back memories
of my year of studying
Latin in high
school. Boy, those were the days!
Maggie G.
==
"In dreams
begin responsibilities."--Delmore Schwartz
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free
@yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb
1998 17:46:56 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
delete at will: pome final version
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id RAA29803
rinaldo, thank
you for this response.
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> Marie
Countryman wrote a pome titled:
> > my father's eyes
> >
> Marie today
by synch i've read an article-interviewed Eric Clapton
>
> q: You wrote some songs of
"Pilgrim"
> after your son Conor's death. What?
>
> a: I wrote the piece "My fathers's
eyes"
> during the time of
"unolugged". It is
> the second song on my son.
>
> Conor was
the little son of Clapton and Lory Del Santo
> an italian
actress. Conor died infant.
>
> marie, while
reading the newspaper remember yr pome,
> cari saluti
a te e tutti gli amici,
> Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb
1998 18:14:29 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
delete at will: pome final version
no rinaldo: it is
about my father dying, traumatic past, and present day
anguish. all
totally autobiogrphical.
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> >rinaldo,
thank you for this response.
> >marie
>
> cuz of Conor
death Eric Clapton divorced by Lory.
> have yr pome
any suggestion about this event?
>
> rin
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb
1998 22:54:00 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
delete at will: pome final version
it is all about
my father, who never wanted nor loved me the way a child
should have been
loved, rinaldo, sad to say.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> >no
rinaldo: it is about my father dying, traumatic past, and present day
> >anguish.
all totally autobiogrphical.
> >marie
> >
>
> now are u
thinking of yr daddy? - i lost mine in 1975
> it was a
cold day of jan - remember some siblings - and have
> a lot of
tears - and gave a kiss in front of my daddy - i have the
> feeling of
the aeternal cold -
>
> rin
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb
1998 16:58:35 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: 000
<race@midusa.net>, 0Stine <StineKC@aol.com>,
ABILENE <dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>, Al Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>,
Antoine Maloney
<stratis@odyssee.net>, APPLE <edappel@epix.net>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>,
baker <SMDebate@aol.com>,
racee@primary.net,
"Beach@qconline.com" <Beach@qconline.com>,
BEAR <MWBRYANT@aol.com>, Becky
Galentine <theloft@ACCESSONE.COM>,
begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>,
Bob Stone
<bstone@terraworld.net>, BrentT <Bthomp4444@aol.com>,
Bruce Gronbeck
<gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
carlin
<prentice@falcoln.cc.ukans.edu>,
carrie_crenshaw
<ccrenshaw@ua1vm.ua.edu>,
charlesSmith
<cmsmith126@aol.com>, cindy <RevCynthia@aol.com>,
Clune <a871@fhsu.edu>,
coffeebreak <reichart@att.com>,
Cori Dauber
<cdauber@email.unc.edu>, culver <nculver@fwenc.com>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
David Mark Cheshier
<joudmc@PANTHER.GSU.EDU>,
designatedhitter
<STRICKLG@esumail.emporia.edu>,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>,
"dilley, benita"
<bdilley@castle.cudenver.edu>,
donnaV <vineyard@midusa.net>,
"Dr. Roald Tweet x7467"
<ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>, DRTUNA@aol.com,
Echrist
<ELChristensen@SNOPUD.com>,
Ed Panetta
<EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>,
Edward Schiappa <schia001@gold.tc.umn.edu>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
emporiahigh
<mwoodbur@value-line.net>,
emporiastate
<BILESROD@esumail.emporia.edu>,
"Eric L. Krug"
<elkrug@kcnet.com>, FtHaysdebate <Joeb@media-net.net>,
g_lane
<laneg@william.jewell.edu>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>,
gordo2 <jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
Gordon Mitchell
<gordonm+@PITT.EDU>,
Greg Schnippel
<schngre@harpo.cns.iit.edu>,
"hingstman, david"
<dbhingst@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
"jb&mlarn@midkan.com"
<jb&mlarn@midkan.com>,
jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
jd.rollins@mail.utexas.edu,
John Fritch
<john_fritch@hotmail.com>, Joshua Hoe <ifjxh@hotmail.com>,
k_broda_bahm
<kbrodabahm@towson.edu>,
Kenneth DeLaughder
<Kenneth.DeLaughder@enmu.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
"Kent A. Ono"
<kaono@ucdavis.edu>,
kevin kuswa <k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
Koch_Steve <skoch@capital.edu>,
kstate <joburtis@ksu.edu>,
BLain@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu,
Lassie <dkpenn@oees.com>,
lechtreck <db8coach@lightspeed.net>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
brooklyn@netcom.com,
"lewenthompson@midkan.com"
<lewenthompson@midkan.com>,
LexingtonHS
<L_Phillips@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us>,
Linda Powell
<Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>, "lingel, dan"
<dlingel@why.net>,
"louden, allan"
<louden@wfu.edu>,
louise_brokaw
<PBY_EAST_IOWA@PCUSA.org>,
Mark Hassman
<hassman@midkan.com>, meany <JKM1993@aol.com>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
"Meyer, Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
mignoli <docmignoli@aol.com>,
Nathan Coco <ncoco@mwe.com>,
neckermank
<neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
NELSONj <john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
pelliott@sunflower.com,
phares@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU, "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,
Randy Lake
<rlake@almaak.usc.edu>,
"RandyStace@aol.com"
<RandyStace@aol.com>, Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu"
<rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu>,
reicherT <ReicherT@nasd.com>,
reynaldo <rgarcia@tacc.org>,
racy@primenet.com, Robert Wick
<rwick@cov.com>,
roDger <rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>,
runnersplanet
<Steve.Thompson@usd305.com>,
"s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@calvin.usc.edu>,
Sam and Beth Stevens
<sbstevens@mcione.com>,
Scott Deatherage
<lsd041@nwu.edu>,
SCOTT HARRIS
<sharris@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>,
Scott Segal
<SEGASH+aPO1%Bracewell_&_Patterson@mcimail.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>, seed2
<sksdallas@aol.com>,
seward23 <seward23@aol.com>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu,
sigel <doug@gyro.net>, slypork
<dscunningham@nwu.edu>,
star <smuir@OSF1.GMU.EDU>,
starwars <Brian_Stucky@ers.com>,
steveMgriffin
<sgriffin@law.tulane.edu>,
Susan_Stanfield
<SUEBELL@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>, JTalley4n6@aol.com,
Thin <jeffrt@wichita.infi.net>,
"tjardes, sue" <tjardes@ups.edu>
Subject: [Fwd:
Zyprexa Blues #135]
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<34DA6459.7A1E@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb
1998 19:16:10 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Beat-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Zyprexa
Blues #135
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: delete
at will: pome final version
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802062249.RAA29803@pike.sover.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980206223905.006fdfb8@pop.gpnet.it>
>rinaldo,
thank you for this response.
>marie
cuz of Conor
death Eric Clapton divorced by Lory.
have yr pome any
suggestion about this event?
rinTo: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
delete at will: pome final version
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802062316.SAA07761@pike.sover.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980206223905.006fdfb8@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19980207000029.0068aca0@pop.gpnet.it>
>no rinaldo:
it is about my father dying, traumatic past, and present day
>anguish. all
totally autobiogrphical.
>marie
>
now are u
thinking of yr daddy? - i lost mine in 1975
it was a cold day
of jan - remember some siblings - and have
a lot of tears -
and gave a kiss in front of my daddy - i have the
feeling of the
aeternal cold -
rinTo: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
[Fwd: Zyprexa Blues #135]
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DB9549.7B4E@midusa.net>
References:
dave please im'
asleeping here in this postmodernist venice
and this message
came me empty its' something to do anyway
rinTo: David
Bruce Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
[Fwd: Zyprexa Blues #135]
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DB9DDF.2789@midusa.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980207002640.006adebc@pop.gpnet.it>
>gonna head to
a siesta now meeself.
>DR
>
i hope that the
spring time is by you in the Mid West
here in Italy ehm
- are you listening...ive' stopped the
warm and are
typing in cold nite...like-
rinReturn-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb
1998 17:33:51 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
[Fwd: Zyprexa Blues #135]
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> dave please
im' asleeping here in this postmodernist venice
> and this
message came me empty its' something to do anyway
>
> rin
gonna head to a
siesta now meeself.
DR
To:
cawilkie@comic.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: please,
why?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:07:32 -0600
>Subject: bad poetry
>
>Cathy Wilkie
says:
>
>In order to
make this really really really bad poetry, we need to
>include a few
words:
>
>
>1. dreams
>2.
butterflies
>3. love
>4. apple
juice
>5. trains
>6. squishy
>7. appelate
court
>
>
>cathy
>
butterflies
eat
my feet
02 08 98
Return-Path:
<cawilkie@comic.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb
1998 12:48:36 -0600
From:
cawilkie@comic.net
Reply-To:
cawilkie@comic.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
please, why?
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998
08:07:32 -0600
>
>Subject: bad poetry
> >
> >Cathy
Wilkie says:
> >
> >In order
to make this really really really bad poetry, we need to
> >include
a few words:
> >
> >
> >1.
dreams
> >2.
butterflies
> >3. love
> >4. apple
juice
> >5.
trains
> >6.
squishy
> >7.
appelate court
> >
> >
> >cathy
> >
>
> butterflies
> eat
> my feet
>
> 02 08 98
Rinaldo:
Good to hear from
you!!! I Was thinking about you just the
other day as
I am reading
Gerald Nicosia's MEMORY BABE, and was reading a little bit
about the italian
translator of ON THE ROAD. I can't
remember the name
right offhand,
but perhaps you could tell me how that person got
involved in
translating that particular book.
Anyway, the list
of words above, I just typed them in off the top of my
head to see what
people would come up with. Purely
experimental, if you
know what I
mean.
I like the
haiku-type poem you got out of it.
Later,
cathy
To:
cawilkie@comic.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
please, why?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DDFE04.4E11@comic.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980208190545.00688d1c@pop.gpnet.it>
>Rinaldo:
>
>Good to hear
from you!!! I Was thinking about you
just the other day as
>I am reading
Gerald Nicosia's MEMORY BABE, and was reading a little bit
>about the
italian translator of ON THE ROAD. I
can't remember the name
>right
offhand, but perhaps you could tell me how that person got
>involved in
translating that particular book.
>Later,
>cathy
>
cathy,
the translator
she was Magda de Cristofaro in 1959
two year later
the am publisher. it's a nice thing
that On the Road
was translated by a woman and introduced
by Fernanda
Pivano (but FP is more interested in AG,
translated HOWL
_but_ in 1968) then the first beat (american
at least in
italy) was JKerouac. i expressed the wish
taht anyone
translatore keep i mind to modernize or
post-modernize
the _old_ translation -
excuse me but
from where in the Us of Am are u?
ciao,
rin.Return-Path:
<cawilkie@comic.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb
1998 13:16:04 -0600
From:
cawilkie@comic.net
Reply-To:
cawilkie@comic.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
please, why?
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> >Rinaldo:
> >
> >Good to
hear from you!!! I Was thinking about
you just the other day as
> >I am
reading Gerald Nicosia's MEMORY BABE, and was reading a little bit
> >about
the italian translator of ON THE ROAD. I
can't remember the name
> >right
offhand, but perhaps you could tell me how that person got
> >involved
in translating that particular book.
> >Later,
> >cathy
> >
> cathy,
> the
translator she was Magda de Cristofaro in 1959
> two year
later the am publisher. it's a nice thing
> that On the
Road was translated by a woman and introduced
> by Fernanda
Pivano (but FP is more interested in AG,
> translated
HOWL _but_ in 1968) then the first beat (american
> at least in
italy) was JKerouac. i expressed the wish
> taht anyone
translatore keep i mind to modernize or
>
post-modernize the _old_ translation -
>
> excuse me
but from where in the Us of Am are u?
>
> ciao,
> rin.
Rinaldo:
smack dab in the
middle of America, my friend. Heart of
the Heartland,
that would be
Iowa. I live in a town called Cedar
Rapids, actually a
suburb of Cedar
Rapids--Marion, Iowa.
cathy
To:
cawilkie@comic.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
please, why?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DE0474.E97@comic.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980208190545.00688d1c@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19980208200430.006b9ef8@pop.gpnet.it>
>Rinaldo:
>
>smack dab in
the middle of America, my friend. Heart
of the Heartland,
>that would be
Iowa. I live in a town called Cedar Rapids,
actually a
>suburb of
Cedar Rapids--Marion, Iowa.
>
>cathy
>
>
cathy,
if u send me yr
postal address i send u a postcard picture
of
venice-italy...
ciao,
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<cawilkie@comic.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb
1998 15:33:55 -0600
From:
cawilkie@comic.net
Reply-To:
cawilkie@comic.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
please, why?
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> >Rinaldo:
> >
> >smack
dab in the middle of America, my friend.
Heart of the Heartland,
> >that
would be Iowa. I live in a town called
Cedar Rapids, actually a
> >suburb
of Cedar Rapids--Marion, Iowa.
> >
> >cathy
> >
> >
> cathy,
> if u send me
yr postal address i send u a postcard picture
> of
venice-italy...
> ciao,
> rinaldo.
Rinaldo:
that would be
very nice, i'd like that a lot.
and in exchange,
if you send me your address, i will send you postcard
of Iowa, or even
send you some of my own pictures of iowa.
Cathy Wilkie
1300 Meadowview
Apt. 4
Marion, Iowa
52302
cathy
Return-Path:
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
X-Sender:
jen@enternet.co.nz
Date: Mon, 09 Feb
1998 11:03:35 +1300
To: "The
Underground Tunnel":;
From: Jen
<jen@enternet.co.nz>
Subject: New
Hiya
Finally got
around to changing the Tunnel - and the entire website while I
was at it.
Take care
Jen
_________________________________________
Two wrongs don't
make a right, but three rights make a left.
Jen's Underground
http://www.enternet.co.nz/client/personal/jen
The time and date
in New Zealand is currently:
09/02/98 11:02:40
am
_________________________________________
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb
1998 01:51:33 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: How
How is American
Indian for hello (in case you didn't know).
It's also the
first word in:
"How are
things in Italy?"
d
To: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: How
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DEB585.3AA@midusa.net>
References:
David tell me:
>How is
American Indian for hello (in case you didn't know).
>
>It's also the
first word in:
>
>"How are
things in Italy?"
>
>d
>
David,
sat morn i was
walkin thru campiellos of venice
& went to
stationery shop in Campo S. Margherita
& i bought
some picture postcard...one is the
famous Squero of
San Trovaso (central station of
the Universe, as
everyone know...) but the good
news are that the
postcard has been painted in
those watercolor
stile...very nice...i immediatly
planned to send
you a copy...then there's a photo
of the Campo del
Ghetto under a snowfall...this in
black&white...also
very nice...springtime is on
coming...maybe it's
a good idea to glue on the back
to bode
well...HOW...im'waiting for while a picture
card of Salina,
Kansas, Us of Am...HOW...today its'
a serene
day...light...sun...now just come back to
work...on the
railroad trip all along a friend of mine
talk of HOW
beautiful is Florence, HOW beautiful is
Rome...&
those artistic works...while the ventian landscape
full of crumbling
houses...hunters walkin in field...
OWL & HAWKS
aims rats...the mountains are trailed small
snow on the
top...im' really fascinate...
.....
rReturn-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb
1998 09:28:20 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To:
"stauffer@pacbell.net" <stauffer@pacbell.net>,
starwars <Brian_Stucky@ers.com>,
star <smuir@OSF1.GMU.EDU>,
slypork <dscunningham@nwu.edu>,
sigel <doug@gyro.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu,
seward23 <seward23@aol.com>,
seed2 <sksdallas@aol.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>,
Scott Segal
<SEGASH+aPO1%Bracewell_&_Patterson@mcimail.com>,
SCOTT HARRIS
<sharris@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>,
Scott Deatherage
<lsd041@nwu.edu>,
Sam and Beth Stevens
<sbstevens@mcione.com>,
"s.a. griffin" <perrotta@calvin.usc.edu>,
"RStineman@aol.com"
<RStineman@aol.com>,
roDger
<rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>, ROC <kai@informatics.net>,
robert_lay <rlay@onramp.net>,
Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
racy@primenet.com, reynaldo <rgarcia@tacc.org>,
reicherT <ReicherT@nasd.com>,
"rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu"
<rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu>,
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"RandyStace@aol.com" <RandyStace@aol.com>,
Randy Lake
<rlake@almaak.usc.edu>, "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>,
"ptrax@midusa.net"
<ptrax@midusa.net>, principal <dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
presbynorthKS
<pby_northern_kansas.parti@pcusa.org>,
phares@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU,
pelliott@sunflower.com,
OSTROM <janice.ostrom@usd305.com>,
ochsowner
<no-more-songs-approval@cs.pdx.edu>,
NELSONj <john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
neckermank
<neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Nathan Coco <ncoco@mwe.com>,
myweb <mrsparty@hotmail.com>,
mignoli <docmignoli@aol.com>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
melanie
<melanie_crawford.parti@pcusa.org>, meany <JKM1993@aol.com>,
Mark Hassman
<hassman@midkan.com>, marie <country@sover.net>,
louise_brokaw
<PBY_EAST_IOWA@pcusa.org>,
"louden, allan"
<louden@wfu.edu>, "lingel, dan" <dlingel@why.net>,
Linda Powell
<Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>,
LexingtonHS
<L_Phillips@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us>,
"lewenthompson@midkan.com"
<lewenthompson@midkan.com>,
brooklyn@netcom.com, Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
lechtreck
<db8coach@lightspeed.net>, Lassie <dkpenn@oees.com>,
BLain@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu, kstate
<joburtis@ksu.edu>,
Koch_Steve <skoch@capital.edu>,
kneckerman <poroi@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
kevin kuswa
<k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
"Kent A. Ono"
<kaono@ucdavis.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
Kenneth DeLaughder
<Kenneth.DeLaughder@enmu.edu>,
k_broda_bahm <kbrodabahm@towson.edu>,
Joshua Hoe <ifjxh@hotmail.com>,
john sloop
<sloopjm@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>,
John Fritch
<john_fritch@hotmail.com>, jd.rollins@mail.utexas.edu,
jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
"jb&mlarn@midkan.com"
<jb&mlarn@midkan.com>,
Jamey Dumas <dumas@GONZAGA.EDU>,
"hingstman, david"
<dbhingst@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
HARMON <debate@midusa.net>, Greg
Schnippel <schngre@harpo.cns.iit.edu>,
Gordon Mitchell
<gordonm+@PITT.EDU>, gordo2 <jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
g_lane
<laneg@william.jewell.edu>, FtHaysdebate <Joeb@media-net.net>,
"Eric L. Krug"
<elkrug@kcnet.com>,
emporiastate
<BILESROD@esumail.emporia.edu>,
emporiahigh
<mwoodbur@value-line.net>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
Edward Schiappa
<schia001@gold.tc.umn.edu>,
edebatemail
<edebate@list.uvm.edu>,
Ed Panetta <EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: [Fwd:
[Fwd: Quote of the Week]]
what's a jihad
anyway?
what did one
marine say to the other about time in the gulf?
it's a gas, gas,
gas!
Message-ID:
<34DF0238.78B6@midusa.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb
1998 07:18:48 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Zarefsky
<d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>
Subject: [Fwd:
Quote of the Week]
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<34DF0201.3829@midusa.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb
1998 07:17:53 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Echrist
<ELChristensen@SNOPUD.com>,
dukeofOPERA <WTeller692@aol.com>,
DRTUNA@aol.com,
"Dr. Roald Tweet x7467"
<ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>,
donnaV <vineyard@midusa.net>,
DireStraits <kthomp@rocketmail.com>,
"dilley, benita" <bdilley@castle.cudenver.edu>,
Diane Carter <dcarter@together.net>,
DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@aol.com>,
designatedhitter
<STRICKLG@esumail.emporia.edu>,
"david.glass@regpha.com"
<david.glass@regpha.com>,
David Mark Cheshier
<joudmc@PANTHER.GSU.EDU>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
culver <nculver@fwenc.com>,
CousinJohnRhaesa <HPDJRACE@aol.com>,
cousinBetty <walegge@midusa.net>,
Cori Dauber <cdauber@email.unc.edu>,
coffeebreak <reichart@att.com>, Clune
<a871@fhsu.edu>,
cindy <RevCynthia@aol.com>,
charlesSmith <cmsmith126@aol.com>,
carrie_crenshaw
<ccrenshaw@ua1vm.ua.edu>,
carlin <prentice@falcoln.cc.ukans.edu>,
Bruce Gronbeck
<gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
BrentT <Bthomp4444@aol.com>, Bob Stone
<bstone@terraworld.net>,
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>,
begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>,
Becky Galentine
<theloft@ACCESSONE.COM>, BEAR <MWBRYANT@AOL.COM>,
racee@primary.net, baker
<SMDebate@aol.com>,
auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>, attias
<hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>, APPLE
<edappel@epix.net>,
Antoine Maloney <stratis@odyssee.net>,
Al Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>,
ABILENE <dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Quote of
the Week
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
"No one goes
to Hades with all his immense wealth."
-- Theognis
570-490 B.C.
To:
cawilkie@comic.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
please, why?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DE24C3.5769@comic.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980208190545.00688d1c@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19980208200430.006b9ef8@pop.gpnet.it>
<3.0.1.32.19980208222641.006adbf8@pop.gpnet.it>
>Rinaldo:
>
>
>that would be
very nice, i'd like that a lot.
>
>and in
exchange, if you send me your address, i will send you postcard
>of Iowa, or
even send you some of my own pictures of iowa.
>
>Cathy Wilkie
>1300
Meadowview Apt. 4
>Marion, Iowa
52302
>
>
>cathy
>
cathy,
also i find very
nice to synch the thought 'bout
sharing postcard
(added or personalized by own visual
artwork or
similia u like stick it by glue yr painting?) -
(in addition to
email thru the internet...)i mind the motto of
the Beatles
"Fun is the one thing that money can't buy"...
... my postal
address is
Rinaldo Rasa
via Morlaiter 2
30173 VENEZIA-Mestre
ITALIA
To:
mbergxx@IQUEST.NET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: no
subject...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>X-Sender:
mbergxx@pop.iquest.net (Unverified)
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:27:17 -0500
as ever i'm
amazed by computer dadaism...
rinaldo.Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb
1998 20:17:38 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: 2
YRS AGO HANDED AT TITANIC
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
thank
you 4
all t
he po
mes t
hat u
send
the l
ist!&
me as
well!
yrs
alway
s dab
On Sun, 8 Feb
1998, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> Jeffrey
Scott Holland says:
> >William
S.Burroughs came into this world on this day in 1914. Radio was
> >in its
infancy, and Nikola Tesla was preparing to sue Marconi for his
>
> YOUTH
> be deep I see you
> --jk
"SEA"
>
>
youthyouthYOUTHY-O-U-T-H-.-.-YOUthyouth--
>
> The Marconi
International Marine Communications co, Ltd.
>
> you
> th 14 APR 1912
> Watergate H
> ouse
>
>
youthyouthyouth
> 11.40 PM. N.Y.T. OFF IS SMALL
> TITANIC SAYS TELL BOATS.
> CAPTAIN WE ARE PU
> TTING THE PASSENG
> GERS
>
> 11.45 PM. N.Y.T. WHAT THE WHEATHER
> ASKED THE TITANIC HE, HAD HE SAYS C
>
LEAR AND CLAM.
> YOUTHYOUTH
> YOUTHYOUTH
> YOUTHYOUTHYOUTH
>
> ---
> Rinaldo
> 02Feb98
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb
1998 17:30:41 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: Zarefsky
<d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>,
"zambezi@falcon.cc.ukans.edu"
<zambezi@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
ZAC <zachery_anderson@hotmail.com>,
wizard <FDBBC@CUNYVM.EDU>,
William E Newnam
<wnewnam@emory.edu>,
WILD_BILL
<Bill.Henderson@uni.edu>,
wichitastate
<jarman@elliott.es.twsu.edu>,
WEISWOMEN <weisk@helpnt.org>,
Virgil Balthrop <vwb@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>,
imaa@midusa.net,
"urinal<grin>publisher" <Hrayl@saljournal.com>,
TrunkJayhawk
<Steve.Thompson@usd305.com>,
"tjardes, sue"
<tjardes@ups.edu>, Thin <jeffrt@wichita.infi.net>,
TATE <tate@wonderlink.net>,
JTalley4n6@aol.com,
Susan_Stanfield
<SUEBELL@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>,
sunrise
<sunrise.parti@pcusa.org>,
steveMgriffin
<sgriffin@law.tulane.edu>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
starwars <Brian_Stucky@ers.com>,
star <smuir@OSF1.GMU.EDU>,
slypork <dscunningham@nwu.edu>,
sigel <doug@gyro.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu,
seward23 <seward23@aol.com>,
seed2 <sksdallas@aol.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>,
Scott Segal
<SEGASH+aPO1%Bracewell_&_Patterson@mcimail.com>,
SCOTT HARRIS
<sharris@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
Scott Deatherage
<lsd041@nwu.edu>,
Sam and Beth Stevens
<sbstevens@mcione.com>,
"s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@calvin.usc.edu>,
"RStineman@aol.com"
<RStineman@aol.com>,
roDger
<rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>, ROC <kai@informatics.net>,
robert_lay <rlay@onramp.net>,
Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
racy@primenet.com, reynaldo
<rgarcia@tacc.org>,
reicherT <ReicherT@nasd.com>,
"rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu"
<rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu>,
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"RandyStace@aol.com" <RandyStace@aol.com>,
Randy Lake
<rlake@almaak.usc.edu>, "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,
"ptrax@midusa.net"
<ptrax@midusa.net>, principal <dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
presbynorthKS
<pby_northern_kansas.parti@pcusa.org>,
phares@falcon.cc.ukans.edu,
pelliott@sunflower.com,
OSTROM
<janice.ostrom@usd305.com>,
ochsowner
<no-more-songs-approval@cs.pdx.edu>,
NELSONj <john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
neckermank
<neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Nathan Coco <ncoco@mwe.com>,
myweb <mrsparty@hotmail.com>,
mignoli <docmignoli@aol.com>,
"Meyer, Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
melanie
<melanie_crawford.parti@pcusa.org>, meany <JKM1993@aol.com>,
Mark Hassman
<hassman@midkan.com>, marie <country@sover.net>,
louise_brokaw
<PBY_EAST_IOWA@pcusa.org>,
"louden, allan"
<louden@wfu.edu>, "lingel, dan" <dlingel@why.net>,
Linda Powell
<Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>,
LexingtonHS
<L_Phillips@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us>,
"lewenthompson@midkan.com"
<lewenthompson@midkan.com>,
brooklyn@netcom.com, Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
lechtreck
<db8coach@lightspeed.net>, Lassie <dkpenn@oees.com>,
BLain@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu, kudebate
<KUDEBATE-L@ukans.edu>,
kstate <joburtis@ksu.edu>,
Koch_Steve <skoch@capital.edu>,
kneckerman
<poroi@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
kevin kuswa
<k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
"Kent A. Ono"
<kaono@ucdavis.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
Kenneth DeLaughder
<Kenneth.DeLaughder@enmu.edu>,
k_broda_bahm
<kbrodabahm@towson.edu>, Joshua Hoe <ifjxh@hotmail.com>,
john sloop
<sloopjm@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>,
John Fritch
<john_fritch@hotmail.com>, jd.rollins@mail.utexas.edu,
jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
"jb&mlarn@midkan.com"
<jb&mlarn@midkan.com>,
Jamey Dumas <dumas@GONZAGA.EDU>,
"hingstman, david"
<dbhingst@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
HARMON <debate@midusa.net>, Greg
Schnippel <schngre@harpo.cns.iit.edu>,
Gordon Mitchell
<gordonm+@PITT.EDU>, gordo2 <jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
g_lane
<laneg@william.jewell.edu>, FtHaysdebate <Joeb@media-net.net>,
FISHBONES <sakana69@hotmail.com>,
"Eric L. Krug" <elkrug@kcnet.com>,
emporiastate
<BILESROD@esumail.emporia.edu>,
emporiahigh
<mwoodbur@value-line.net>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
Edward Schiappa
<schia001@gold.tc.umn.edu>,
edebatemail
<edebate@list.uvm.edu>,
Ed Panetta
<EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>,
Echrist
<ELChristensen@SNOPUD.com>, dukeofOPERA <WTeller692@aol.com>,
DRTUNA@aol.com, "Dr. Roald Tweet
x7467" <ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>,
donnaV <vineyard@midusa.net>,
DireStraits <kthomp@rocketmail.com>,
"dilley, benita"
<bdilley@castle.cudenver.edu>,
"Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>,
Diane Carter <dcarter@together.net>,
designatedhitter
<STRICKLG@esumail.emporia.edu>,
DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@aol.com>,
"david.glass@regpha.com"
<david.glass@regpha.com>,
David Mark Cheshier
<joudmc@PANTHER.GSU.EDU>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>, culver <nculver@fwenc.com>,
CousinJohnRhaesa
<HPDJRACE@aol.com>, cousinBetty <walegge@midusa.net>,
Cori Dauber
<cdauber@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>, coffeebreak <reichart@att.com>,
Clune <a871@fhsu.edu>, cindy
<RevCynthia@aol.com>,
charlesSmith
<cmsmith126@aol.com>,
CELTICPRIDE
<William.F.Russell@Dartmouth.EDU>,
CEDARRAPIDS <cawilkie@comic.net>,
carrie_crenshaw
<ccrenshaw@ua1vm.ua.edu>,
carlin <prentice@falcoln.cc.ukans.edu>,
burke-L <Burke-L@siu.edu>,
Bruce Gronbeck
<gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
BrentT <Bthomp4444@aol.com>,
bohemian <Bohemian@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>,
Bob Stone
<bstone@terraworld.net>, Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>,
begrand
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>,
Becky Galentine
<theloft@ACCESSONE.COM>, BEAR <MWBRYANT@aol.com>,
racee@primary.net, baker
<SMDebate@aol.com>, AVERY <donam@asu.edu>,
auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>, attias
<hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>,
Antoine Maloney
<stratis@odyssee.net>, Al Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>,
ABILENE
<dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: [Fwd:
zyprexa blues #134]
sorry i'm a day
late with this weekly magazine everyone.
david
Message-ID:
<34E3BAC9.4A7D@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb
1998 21:15:21 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Beat-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
CC: AVERY
<donam@asu.edu>, auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>, Al Girtz
<agirtz@yahoo.com>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>,
ABILENE <dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: zyprexa
blues #134
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
sea
ewe
lay tur
nocturnal ant
colonists.
DR/dbr
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb
1998 19:25:26 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
!!DON'T GIVE UP!! (was Re: Abe Lincoln)
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
rinaldo
once again you
have impressed and made me exstatic w/ yr poetry of
sainthood
thoughtfulness thanks!
always
derek
On Sat, 14 Feb
1998, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> Carly
Earnshaw says:
> >abe
lincoln? the beats? the connection?
> | | |
> | | |
> my barcode
num | the badge reader
> ber
unsticked | red light flashi
> on the
card | refused my name
> \ |
/
> \ |
/
> the town and the city
> /
has almost 300 pages\
> searching/ \
> for a
bib\ pietas i saw \
> le in a j
\ a dead rat o \
> ail \----- n the street \
> | today dead r \
> | at is beauti \
> | ful! the book
> | \ guilty o
> | \ f everyt
> | \---------- hing is
> | / out of p
> | / rint\
> mexico city
blues-----\ \
> is sold
out \ I STOPPED
> \ | FOR A COF
> \ HST / FE TONITE
> DEAD ra BUR--------------\
> t is be IED \maybe i h
> autiful IN ave to bu
> it's is THE ried the
> useless 60s rat pleas
> \ | se
> DON'T \ /
> GIVE \ /
> UP!! DON'T GIVE UP!!
> \ /
> \ /
>
> a prayer...
>
> ---
> rinaldo
> 14feb98
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: good
morning
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980213192457.55812C-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980214001206.00689f44@pop.gpnet.it>
Derek, always
grateful of yr eletter from magic canada
thanx for the
compliments, it's good news to see youth
publisher like u.
i've yesterday sent u a pic postcard
i hope it goes right.
by the way what's happeneded to
Antoine? he is
not posting to the list... have some info?
ciao, buona
domenica (good sunday),
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb
1998 22:31:09 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: Zarefsky
<d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>, WEISWOMEN <weisk@helpnt.org>,
imaa@midusa.net, TrunkJayhawk
<Steve.Thompson@usd305.com>,
"tjardes, sue"
<tjardes@ups.edu>, Thin <jeffrt@wichita.infi.net>,
TATE <tate@wonderlink.net>, sunrise
<sunrise.parti@pcusa.org>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>,
Sam and Beth Stevens
<sbstevens@mcione.com>, ROC <kai@informatics.net>,
robert_lay <rlay@onramp.net>,
racy@primenet.com,
reynaldo <rgarcia@tacc.org>, Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"ptrax@midusa.net"
<ptrax@midusa.net>, principal <dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
presbynorthKS <pby_northern_kansas.parti@pcusa.org>,
NELSONj <john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
neckermank
<neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
melanie
<melanie_crawford.parti@pcusa.org>,
Mark Hassman <hassman@midkan.com>,
marie <country@sover.net>,
louise_brokaw
<PBY_EAST_IOWA@pcusa.org>,
Linda Powell
<Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
"jb&mlarn@midkan.com"
<jb&mlarn@midkan.com>,
gordo2 <jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
dukeofOPERA <WTeller692@aol.com>,
donnaV <vineyard@midusa.net>,
CousinJohnRhaesa
<HPDJRACE@aol.com>, cousinBetty <walegge@midusa.net>,
BrentT <Bthomp4444@aol.com>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>, racee@primary.net,
auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>, Al
Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Fwd:
[Fwd: ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING]]
from Rev. Cindy
Sickler Unity church salina
dbr
Return-Path:
<revcindy@midusa.net>
Received: from
midusa.net (node78.salina.midusa.net [206.28.169.78])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP
id JAA16692
for <race@midusa.net>; Sat, 14 Feb 1998
09:35:21 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <34E5B807.171A2A50@midusa.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb
1998 10:28:07 -0500
From: cindy
sickler <revcindy@midusa.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.03 (Macintosh; U; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
race@midusa.net
Subject: [Fwd:
ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING]
Content-Type:
multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FD26F92193D8EAE182BF1722"
Return-Path:
<cssc@unity.org>
Received: from
mail.unity.org (mail.unity.org [206.100.55.34])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP
id QAA10041
for <RevCindy@midusa.net>; Fri, 6 Feb
1998 16:05:26 -0600 (CST)
Received: by
mail.unity.org from localhost
(router,SLMail V2.5); Fri, 06 Feb 1998
09:48:15 -0600
Received: by
mail.unity.org from [206.100.55.6]
(206.100.55.6::mail daemon,SLMail V2.5);
Fri, 06 Feb 1998 09:48:13 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Date: Fri, 06 Feb
98 09:49:50 -0600
From:
"Debbie Ball" <cssc@unity.org>
Subject: ATTITUDE
IS EVERYTHING
To:
Cathy_Chong@Hilton.com, RevCindy@midusa.net, Doosburn@aol.com,
JFrichot@aol.com,
JJobe@PrincessHotels.com, Ball@sky.net
X-Mailer: SPRY
Mail Version: 04.00.06.17
Message-Id:
<19980206094815.389c87e7.in@mail.unity.org>
Subject: ATTITUDE
IS EVERYTHING
(written by Francie Baltazar-Schwartz)
Jerry is the kind
of guy you love to hate. He is always in
a
good mood and
always has
something positive to say. When someone
would ask
him how he
was doing, he
would reply, "If I were any better, I would be
twins!
He was a unique
manager because he had several waiters who had
followed him
around from
restaurant to restaurant. The reason the waiters
followed Jerry
was because of
his attitude. He was a natural motivator. If an
employee was
having a bad day,
Jerry was there telling the employee how to
look on the
positive side of
the situation. Seeing this style really made
me curious,
so one day I went
up to Jerry and asked him, "I don't get it!
You can't be
a positive person
all of the time. How do you do it?"
Jerry
replied,"Each morning I wake up and say to myself, Jerry,
you have
two choices
today. You can choose to be in a good mood or you
can choose to
be in a bad
mood. I choose to be in a good mood.
Each time
something bad
happens, I can
choose to be a victim or I can choose to learn
from it. I
choose to learn
from it. Every time someone comes to me
complaining, I
can
choose to accept
their complaining or I can point out
the positive side
of life. I choose the positive side of life."
"Yeah,
right, it's not that easy," I
protested. "Yes it is,"
Jerry said.
"Life is all
about choices. When you cut away all the
junk, every
situation is a
choice. You choose how you react to situations.
You choose
how people will
affect your mood. You choose to be in a good
mood or bad
mood. The bottom
line:
It's your choice
how you live life."
I reflected on
what Jerry said. Soon thereafter, I left
the
restaurant
industry to start
my own business. We lost touch, but I
often
thought
about him when I
made a choice about life instead of reacting
to it.
Several years
later, I heard that Jerry did something you are
never
supposed to do in
a restaurant business: he left the back
door
open one
morning and was
held up at gunpoint by three armed robbers.
While trying to
open the safe,
his hand, shaking from nervousness, slipped off the
combination. The
robbers panicked and shot him.
Luckily, Jerry
was found relatively quickly and rushed to the
local trauma
center. After 18
hours of surgery and weeks of intensive care,
Jerry was
released from the
hospital with fragments of the bullets still
in his body.
I was with Jerry
about six months after the accident.
When I
asked him how
he was, he
replied, "If I were any better, I'd be twins. Wanna
see my
scars?" I
declined to see his wounds, but did ask him what had
gone through
his mind as the
robbery took place. "The first thing that went
through my
mind was that I
should have locked the back door", Jerry replied.
"Then, as I
lay on the floor, I remembered that I had two
choices: I could
choose to live or
I could choose to die. I chose to
live."
"Weren't you
scared? Did you lose
consciousness?" I asked. Jerry
continued,
"The paramedics were great. They
kept telling me I
was going to
be fine. But when
they wheeled me into the ER and I was looking
at the
expressions on
the faces of the doctors and nurses, I got
really scared. In
their eyes, I
read 'he's a dead man'. I knew I needed to take
action."
"What did
you do?" I asked. "Well, there was a big burly
nurse shouting
questions at
me," said Jerry. "She asked if
I was allergic to
anything.
'Yes' I replied.
The doctors and nurses stopped working as they
waited for
my reply. I took a deep breath and yelled, 'Bullets!'
Over their
laughter, I told
them, 'I am choosing to live.
Operate on me as
if I am alive, not dead."
Jerry lived
thanks to the skill of his doctors, but also
because of his
amazing attitude.
I learned from him that every day we have the
choice to
live fully.
Attitude, after
all, is everything.
You have two
choices. now:
1. Delete this.
2. Forward it to
the people you care about.
<---- End Forwarded Message ---->
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb
1998 14:28:35 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: good
morning
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
> Derek,
always grateful of yr eletter from magic canada
> thanx for
the compliments, it's good news to see youth
thanks for all
you sed.
what was yr
address again? i would like to send out some of my poetry, etc
--
would you consider letting me publishing a
chapbook of yr poems ?
i find them just
fantastic & i think that they should be poublished.
interested?
> publisher
like u. i've yesterday sent u a pic postcard
> i hope it
goes right. by the way what's happeneded to
> Antoine? he
is not posting to the list... have some info?
i think hes just
real buzy i have heard from him a couple time lately. i
assume everything
is ok - his email is:
stratis@odyssee.net
if you wanna atlk
to him
chiao
yrs
derek
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: good
morning#2
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980215142601.13178B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980214145329.00721acc@pop.gpnet.it>
my postal
address:
---------------------
Rinaldo Rasa
via Morlaiter 2
30173
VENEZIA-Mestre
ITALIA.
---------------------
derek,
IM'GLAD TO SEE YR
PUBLICATIONS!
ciao,
Rinaldo.
-------Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb
1998 15:18:13 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
X-Sender:
dabeauli@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Cc: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: good
morning#2
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
rinaldo
will you send me
a bunch of yr poems to publish? (and sell?)
yrs
derek
On Sun, 15 Feb
1998,
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> my postal
address:
>
---------------------
> Rinaldo Rasa
> via
Morlaiter 2
> 30173
VENEZIA-Mestre
> ITALIA.
>
---------------------
> derek,
>
> IM'GLAD TO
SEE YR PUBLICATIONS!
>
> ciao,
> Rinaldo.
> -------
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb
1998 05:49:04 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: ABILENE
<dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>, Al Girtz <agirtz@yahoo.com>,
ALASKA <nathan_vereide@ima.connections.com>,
Antoine Maloney
<stratis@odyssee.net>, APPLE <edappel@epix.net>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>,
AVERY <donam@asu.edu>,
baker <SMDebate@AOL.COM>, racee@primary.net,
BEAR <MWBRYANT@AOL.COM>,
Becky Galentine
<theloft@ACCESSONE.COM>,
begrand
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>,
Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>, Bob Stone <bstone@terraworld.net>,
BrentT <Bthomp4444@AOL.COM>,
Bruce Gronbeck
<gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
carlin
<prentice@falcoln.cc.ukans.edu>,
carrie_crenshaw
<ccrenshaw@ua1vm.ua.edu>,
CEDARRAPIDS <cawilkie@comic.net>,
CELTICPRIDE
<William.F.Russell@Dartmouth.EDU>,
charlesSmith
<cmsmith126@AOL.COM>, cindy <RevCynthia@AOL.COM>,
Clune <a871@fhsu.edu>,
coffeebreak <reichart@att.com>,
Cori Dauber
<cdauber@email.unc.edu>, cousinBetty <walegge@midusa.net>,
CousinJohnRhaesa
<HPDJRACE@AOL.COM>, culver <nculver@fwenc.com>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>,
David Mark Cheshier
<joudmc@PANTHER.GSU.EDU>,
"david.glass@regpha.com"
<david.glass@regpha.com>,
DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>,
designatedhitter
<STRICKLG@esumail.emporia.edu>,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>,
"dilley, benita"
<bdilley@castle.cudenver.edu>,
DireStraits
<kthomp@rocketmail.com>, donnaV <vineyard@midusa.net>,
"Dr. Roald Tweet x7467"
<ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>, DRTUNA@AOL.COM,
dukeofOPERA <WTeller692@AOL.COM>,
Echrist <ELChristensen@SNOPUD.com>,
Ed Panetta
<EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>,
Edward Schiappa <schia001@gold.tc.umn.edu>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@AOL.COM>,
emporiahigh
<mwoodbur@value-line.net>,
emporiastate
<BILESROD@esumail.emporia.edu>,
"Eric L. Krug"
<elkrug@kcnet.com>, FISHBONES <sakana69@hotmail.com>,
FtHaysdebate <Joeb@media-net.net>,
g_lane <laneg@william.jewell.edu>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
Gibson <rgibson@prairienet.org>,
gordo2 <jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
Gordon Mitchell
<gordonm+@PITT.EDU>,
Greg Schnippel
<schngre@harpo.cns.iit.edu>, HARMON <debate@midusa.net>,
"hingstman, david"
<dbhingst@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
Jamey Dumas <dumas@GONZAGA.EDU>,
"jb&mlarn@midkan.com"
<jb&mlarn@midkan.com>,
jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
jd.rollins@mail.utexas.edu,
John Fritch
<john_fritch@hotmail.com>,
john sloop
<sloopjm@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>,
Joshua Hoe <ifjxh@hotmail.com>,
k_broda_bahm <kbrodabahm@towson.edu>,
Kenneth DeLaughder <Kenneth.DeLaughder@enmu.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
"Kent A. Ono"
<kaono@ucdavis.edu>,
kevin kuswa
<k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
kneckerman
<poroi@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Koch_Steve <skoch@capital.edu>,
kstate <joburtis@ksu.edu>,
BLain@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu,
Lassie <dkpenn@oees.com>,
lechtreck <db8coach@lightspeed.net>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
brooklyn@netcom.com,
"lewenthompson@midkan.com"
<lewenthompson@midkan.com>,
LexingtonHS
<L_Phillips@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us>,
Linda Powell
<Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>, "lingel, dan"
<dlingel@why.net>,
"louden, allan"
<louden@wfu.edu>,
louise_brokaw
<PBY_EAST_IOWA@PCUSA.org>, marie <country@sover.net>,
Mark Hassman
<hassman@midkan.com>, meany <JKM1993@AOL.COM>,
melanie
<melanie_crawford.parti@PCUSA.org>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
"Meyer, Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
mignoli <docmignoli@AOL.COM>,
myweb <mrsparty@hotmail.com>,
Nathan Coco <ncoco@mwe.com>,
neckermank <neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
NELSONj <john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
ochsowner
<no-more-songs-approval@cs.pdx.edu>,
OSTROM <janice.ostrom@usd305.com>,
pelliott@sunflower.com,
phares@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU,
presbynorthKS
<pby_northern_kansas.parti@PCUSA.org>,
principal <dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
"ptrax@midusa.net" <ptrax@midusa.net>,
"R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,
Randy Lake <rlake@almaak.usc.edu>,
"RandyStace@aol.com"
<RandyStace@AOL.COM>, Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu"
<rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu>,
reicherT <ReicherT@nasd.com>,
reynaldo <rgarcia@tacc.org>,
racy@primenet.com, Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
robert_lay <rlay@onramp.net>, ROC
<kai@informatics.net>,
roDger
<rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>,
"RStineman@aol.com"
<RStineman@AOL.COM>,
"s.a. griffin" <perrotta@calvin.usc.edu>,
Sam and Beth Stevens
<sbstevens@mcione.com>,
Scott Deatherage
<lsd041@nwu.edu>,
SCOTT HARRIS
<sharris@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>,
Scott Segal
<SEGASH+aPO1%Bracewell_&_Patterson@mcimail.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>, seed2
<sksdallas@AOL.COM>,
seward23 <seward23@AOL.COM>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
sigel <doug@gyro.net>,
slypork <dscunningham@nwu.edu>,
star <smuir@OSF1.GMU.EDU>,
starwars <Brian_Stucky@ers.com>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
steveMgriffin
<sgriffin@law.tulane.edu>,
sunrise
<sunrise.parti@PCUSA.org>,
Susan_Stanfield
<SUEBELL@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>, JTalley4n6@AOL.COM,
TATE <tate@wonderlink.net>, Thin
<jeffrt@wichita.infi.net>,
"tjardes, sue"
<tjardes@ups.edu>,
TrunkJayhawk
<Steve.Thompson@usd305.com>,
"urinal<grin>publisher"
<Hrayl@saljournal.com>, imaa@midusa.net,
Virgil Balthrop <vwb@email.unc.edu>,
WEISWOMEN <weisk@helpnt.org>,
wichitastate
<jarman@elliott.es.twsu.edu>,
WILD_BILL
<Bill.Henderson@uni.edu>,
William E Newnam
<wnewnam@emory.edu>,
ZAC
<zachery_anderson@hotmail.com>,
"zambezi@falcon.cc.ukans.edu"
<zambezi@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>,
Zarefsky <d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>
Subject: Quote of
the Week
No quote of the
week next Monday as I will be on the road.
"So in the
Libyan fable it is told
That once an
Eagle, stricken with a dart
Said, when he saw
the fashion of the shaft,
'With our own
feathers, not by others' hands
Are we now
smitten.'"
-- AEschylus 525-456 B.C.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb
1998 17:22:23 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
early mc poetry.
rinaldo, i do not
mind the fragments as i know and feel the love you put
into sending
them.
thankyou
it's been a very
hard month, and you gave me a gift today. a reminder of
what i can do,
who i am
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie says:
> >i wrote
my first pome the day that allen ginsberg died, and
> >have not
stopped since.
>
> Two poems
fragmented of Marie Countryman's poetry:
>
> ---
> to allen
wherever he may be
> ...
> today as i
mourn your death,
> allen
ginsberg,
> i also
celebrate your birth.
> fare the
well.
> mc
> (1)
> ---
> (1) there's
no date but Sun, 6 Apr 1997
>
> ---
> (2)
> ...
> no other
fruit
> has ever
been sweeter
> than the
pears
> of my
writing tree.
> mc (sunday,
april 13,)
> ---
>
> (2)poem
written on Sun, 13 Apr 1997
> ---
>
> Marie, i
hope i do not have shattered yr poems snipping
> yr words if
this occours i deeply apologies - yr statement concerning
> the dawn of
yr poetry is biographical correct - but i think
> u are always
walkin thru aisles walls of dreams looking for
> real
word/flowers.
>
> cari saluti
a tutti,
> Rinaldo.
> --------
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb
1998 17:27:11 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: rinaldo
from marie
rinaldo, could
you please send me your address (not computer)? i have a
new artform,
poetic cards, and i have one with your name on it. but no
address to send
it.
i hope you are
well and happy.
marie
To:
dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
goodbye
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980219081214.16582B-100000@calcna.ab.ca>
References:
why?Return-Path:
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 20:09:53 EST
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Purdy
To: rinaldo@gpnet.it
I think he's
still around. Think he may even be
living in Brooklyn, NY. I'll
check and let you
know.
Return-Path:
<dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb
1998 20:32:05 -0700 (MST)
From: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
goodbye
Organization:
Calgary Community Network Assoc.
rinaldo
the list has gone
d
o
w
n
h
i
l
l
and i no longer feel at home
there.
sorry pls do
rite. i received yr pst card today! thanks and one heading yr
way soon~
yrs
derek
On Thu, 19 Feb
1998, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> why?
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
derek beaulieu
c/o house press
apt.502 728 3rd
ave nw, calgary, alberta, canada t2n 0j1
email:dabeauli@calcna.ab.ca
phone
(403)270-4440
LOOK FOR : house
press' latest release "al/ph/abet:(de)find", limited
edition chapbook!
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
rinaldo from marie
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802192252.RAA24210@pike.sover.net>
References:
Rinaldo Rasa
via Morlaiter 2
30173 VENEZIA-Mestre
ITALIA
thnks
marie
im well
& ihope same
to u
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb
1998 10:03:26 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
rinaldo from marie
thanks, rinaldo.
february is a hard month for me for many reasons. right
now i cannot
write pomes so i am making odd little cards to send to my
friends, trying
to match personalities with artwork and messages. it
should be a lot
of fun, and i hope to chase the blues away, and maybe
even produce a
poem from it all.
good day to you,
my tender friend
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> Rinaldo Rasa
> via Morlaiter 2
> 30173 VENEZIA-Mestre
> ITALIA
>
> thnks
> marie
> im well
> & ihope
same to u
To: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
rinaldo from marie
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802201505.KAA12468@pike.sover.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980220093150.00731c30@pop.gpnet.it>
marie, its very
nice painting - sometime imthinkin of vt
& i remember
u said there's mountains &
i think of
fennimore cooper _the last of mohicans_ when
the people are
walking into the woods - then i put
aside -
disappearing in the dark green... im'for sure
happy yr
plainning to painting/artworks sketching the heart
what im' (now)
thinking so often
i might to become a monk... some people tell
me this 'llbe my
future...
ciao, goodnite,
rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb
1998 07:17:39 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
rinaldo from marie
thankyou for your
letter, rinaldo. i think you would make a fine monk,
so gentle and
tender. but do monks have gateways to the internet? i
would miss you
greatly
love
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie, its
very nice painting - sometime imthinkin of vt
> & i
remember u said there's mountains &
>
> i think of
fennimore cooper _the last of mohicans_ when
> the people
are walking into the woods - then i put
> aside -
disappearing in the dark green... im'for sure
> happy yr
plainning to painting/artworks sketching the heart
>
> what im'
(now)
> thinking so
often i might to become a monk... some people tell
> me this
'llbe my future...
>
> ciao,
goodnite, rinaldo.
To:
vettori@ipsnet.it
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: la tua
poesia
Cc:
Bcc: rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Subject: February 1968
>From: "Mauro Vettori"
<vettori@ipsnet.it>
>Date: 1998/02/07
>Message-ID: <01bd319d$3cee0420$LocalHost@default>
>Newsgroups: alt.books.beatgeneration
>
>
>Thirty years
>I was not
>in the womb
>of my poor
mother...
>No other
things
>I could
say...
>Before I'll
die
>I would like
>to see my
life
>with Cassady
eyes...
>
>In memory of
the death of Neal Cassady, 1968
>
>---------------------------------------------
Mauro, hai
scritto un poesia molto bella, grazie.
saluti,
Rinaldo Rasa.
Venezia-Mestre,Italia
Return-Path:
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 14:06:32 EST
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Scope
To: rinaldo@gpnet.it
Rinaldo, I'm not
sure which post had less relevance for the list -- The
Iraqi petition or
the Hail Mary! Please try to keep your
post focused
on the writers
and work of the Beat Generation.
To:
country@SOVER.NET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: marie
countryman 2/22/98(on her 45th birthday
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
marie
already
daises blossom
in the meadows
i
whish
you
an happy birthday
from
rinaldo
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanks
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34F064F0.4436@sunflower.com>
References:
<43a5e8e5.34ee1c5c@aol.com>
<3.0.5.16.19980221230848.127f5e76@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
patricia,
ti ringrazio.
cari saluti,
rinaldo.Return-Path:
<Aeronwytru@aol.com>
From: Aeronwytru@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb
1998 16:59:54 EST
To:
rinaldo@GPNET.IT
Subject: re: AVE
MARIA. (the prayer)
hey rinaldo i've
always wanted to know what people are saying in ave maria. it
was a surprise to
have it come from such an unexpected source. thanks.
aerowny
To:
Aeronwytru@aol.com
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re: AVE
MARIA. (the prayer)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<a2f59cbd.34f09fdc@aol.com>
References:
aerowny wrote:
>hey rinaldo
i've always wanted to know what people are saying in ave maria. it
>was a
surprise to have it come from such an unexpected source. thanks.
>
>aerowny
>
buona sera
aerowny,
Pater Noster and
Ave Maria are the two
prayers of
catholic curch (every children
in italy, me too,
have in his very deep
memory, often in
latin) now are translated
in italian. Maria
is the Mother of God/Jesus.
i hope this help,
otherwise im' here.
ti auguro una
buona domenica, (i wish u a good sunday),
saluti,
Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb
1998 07:53:17 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
marie countryman 2/22/98(on her 45th birthday
rinaldo: thank
you for this wonderful little pome. i wish you a happy
day, monday, dec
23rd
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie
> already
> daises blossom
> in the meadows
> i
> whish
> you
> an happy birthday
>
> from
> rinaldo
To:
stauffer@PACBELL.NET
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Happy Trails
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34F1D932.6C422F29@pacbell.net>
References:
James, i say u a
great "arrivederci!",
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.To: Marie Countryman <country@sover.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
2/25/98
Cc:
Bcc:
love_singing@MSN.COM
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199802252026.PAA25348@pike.sover.net>
References:
marie wrote:
>my father
died today
>
marie,
accept my condolences, everybody is a
witness.
Gratia Domini nostri Iesu Christi
cum omnibus vobis.
Amen.
rinaldo.
26feb98Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb
1998 15:11:43 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
2/25/98
thank you, my
sweet friend.
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie wrote:
> >my
father died today
> >
> marie,
> accept my condolences, everybody is a
witness.
>
> Gratia Domini nostri Iesu Christi
> cum omnibus vobis.
> Amen.
>
> rinaldo.
> 26feb98
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb
1998 19:51:11 +0000
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Happy Trails
Rinbaldo,
I'll be back, and
feel free to keep in touch, I need a break, and if I
get to Venice . .
.
Will be sure to
look you up--always one of my favorite Beat-L folks.
I'll never forget
the day you kept posting "Kerouac was not censored"
James
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> James, i say
u a great "arrivederci!",
> cari saluti
da Rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Mar
1998 08:49:30 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
spring...
thankyou rinaldo,
you always bring my attention back to what is really
important in this
life of suffering.
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie, today
(sunday)
>
> i saw a tree
in bud
> small white
eyes.
>
> rinaldo.
To: Marie
Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
spring...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
marie, today
(sunday)
i saw a tree in
bud
small white eyes.
rinaldo.Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Mar
1998 12:35:43 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
spring...
i love you,
rinaldo, i write out my pain and you deliver me such tender
presents.
marie
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
> marie, today
(sunday)
>
> i saw a tree
in bud
> small white
eyes.
>
> rinaldo.
Return-Path:
<yfeng@geocities.com>
Reply-To:
"Yan Feng" <yfeng@geocities.com>
From: "Yan
Feng" <yfeng@geocities.com>
To:
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Beats and the digital revolution
Date: Tue, 3 Mar
1998 14:12:54 +0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
>Yang wrote:
>>I think
so too.
>>call
yourself net beat, a very nice name.
>
>Politics and
Cultural Studies in Interasia
>Interview
with Kuan-Hsing Chen
>By Geert
Lovink
>Taipei,
december 20, 1997
>
>[excerpt]
>
>Geert Lovink:
How would you describe the Internet generation? People
> seem to use e-mail and there are
WWW-adresses being
> advertized here and there. But there is
no cyber-culture
> yet, at least it is not visible.
>
>Kuan-Hsing
Chen: The commercial Internet is not as big as elsewhere. It
> is still largely depending on the
academic
> infrastructure. Internet is a crystal
light of society:
> those with more power and resources
will have a bigger
> space. The lesbian groups are an
exception, not the
> gays, by the way. The younger
generation of feminists
> are making an active use of the Net,
mainly because of
> the commodification of queer identity.
These are writers
> with cultural capital and names.
>
Rinaldo,
I realy don't
understand the excerpt.
what do you mean?
Best,
Yan
To: "Derek
A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a bone
Cc:
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\Nero.gif;
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.980215142601.13178B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980214145329.00721acc@pop.gpnet.it>
derek,
ive' received yr
card, very nice, yr house press goes on!
always i receive
post from Canada is somthing of magic,
thanks,
rinaldo.
To: "Yan
Feng" <yfeng@geocities.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats and the digital revolution
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01bd466b$6c876720$LocalHost@---->
References:
Yan wrote:
>
>
>>Yang
wrote:
>>>I
think so too.
>>>call
yourself net beat, a very nice name.
>>
>>Politics
and Cultural Studies in Interasia
>>Interview
with Kuan-Hsing Chen
>>By Geert
Lovink
>>Taipei,
december 20, 1997
>>
>>[excerpt]
>>
>>Geert
Lovink: How would you describe the Internet generation? People
>> seem to use e-mail and there are
WWW-adresses being
>> advertized here and there. But there is
no cyber-culture
>> yet, at least it is not visible.
>>
>>Kuan-Hsing
Chen: The commercial Internet is not as big as elsewhere. It
>> is still largely depending on the
academic
>> infrastructure. Internet is a crystal
light of society:
>> those with more power and resources
will have a bigger
>> space. The lesbian groups are an
exception, not the
>> gays, by the way. The younger
generation of feminists
>> are making an active use of the Net,
mainly because of
>> the commodification of queer identity.
These are writers
>> with cultural capital and names.
>>
>Rinaldo,
>
>I realy don't
understand the excerpt.
>what do you
mean?
>
>Best,
>Yan
>
>
excuse me Yan, my
apologies. Rinaldo.To: cawilkie@comic.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: yr best
poem
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DDFE04.4E11@comic.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980208190545.00688d1c@pop.gpnet.it>
>===============================================
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:06:33 -0600
>From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET>
>Subject: dreams
>
>1. get very drunk
>2. take xanax
>and
>3. eat meat.
>
>===============================================
Cathy,
very
evocative!very poetic.
thanks,
Rinaldo. * the
schrodinger cat... *
Return-Path:
<cawilkie@comic.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Mar
1998 17:55:15 -0600
From:
cawilkie@comic.net
Reply-To:
cawilkie@comic.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: postcard
Rinaldo:
I just wanted to
jot you a quick note to let you know that i did receive
your postcard,
thank you, it was beautiful.
When i get my
paycheck on thursday, i've got some pictures to send off
to you.
cathy
Return-Path:
<dcarter@together.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar
1998 12:58:43 -0800
From: Diane
Carter <dcarter@together.net>
To: "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
CC: Jean Ory
<jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>, Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>,
jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>,
Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
David Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
> R. Bentz
Kirby wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> I hope that
Bill will not shut down the list, though I can't say that I
> blame him
for being fed up with all of this. I
have written to Bill
> expressing
my wish that the list shall not die. I
hope that each of
> you
> will do the
same.
I have already
written to Bill urging him to keep the list alive and I
also hope all of
you will as well. I would not be at all
opposed to a
moderated list,
although I'm afraid it might take more time than he has
to give. This particular list has enriched all of our
lives and we face
the very real
possibility of losing it. Let's all let
Bill know that we
love the list and
will embrace any changes necessary to kept it on track
and alive.
DC
Return-Path:
<bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar
1998 22:04:26 -0500
From:
bocelts@scsn.net (R. Bentz Kirby)
To: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>,
Jean Ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>, Jerry
Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>,
jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>, Leon
Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>,
Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>, Sherri
<love_singing@msn.com>,
David Rhaesa <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Save the
beat list
Hi all:
I hope that Bill
will not shut down the list, though I can't say that I
blame him for
being fed up with all of this. I have
written to Bill
expressing my
wish that the list shall not die. I hope
that each of you
will do the same.
In the event that
the list does die, I want to express my appreciation
to each and every
one of you for making the list an
important part of
my life this last
year and more. It has been a wonderful
place for me
to learn and to
see some wonderful writing from various individuals.
Free the beat
list! Don't let it die.
Thanks
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar
1998 21:17:00 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
CC: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>, Jean Ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>,
Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>,
jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>,
Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> I hope that
Bill will not shut down the list, though I can't say that I
> blame him
for being fed up with all of this. I
have written to Bill
> expressing
my wish that the list shall not die. I
hope that each of you
> will do the
same.
>
> In the event
that the list does die, I want to express my appreciation
> to each and
every one of you for making the list an
important part of
> my life this
last year and more. It has been a wonderful
place for me
> to learn and
to see some wonderful writing from various individuals.
>
> Free the
beat list! Don't let it die.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
i don't think we
should view a moderated list -- after the designated 36
hours or so
cooling off that Bill requested -- as an end to the Beat-L.
It seems that it
provides the opportunity to deal with fewer posts but
with posts that
are written to a target audience of "bill" the moderator
rather than
random post and response that some -- not particularly any
of US
<grin> -- are guilty of. my hunch
is that if a solid grounding of
the listserve in
the "flow" that bill intended it began again under a
moderated format
the process might "flow" back again towards an
unmoderated
format.
several things to
think about. i think it is a good idea
for people to
be more active in
greeting newcomers to the list and in presenting our
view of where we
are in relation to the list and its purposes.
part of
the chaos it
seems to me (and i've not been particularly active since my
hospitalization)
has been an US-THEM mentality between newbies and old
farts. I haven't quite fathomed the antagonisms of
the THEMS but
perhaps the arts
of introduction can help defuse such things before they
start. Newcomers get a set greeting from the
listserve defining
generally its
ground - it seems that we expect newcomers to be able to
intuit our
various connections over time with the listserve and this is
probably not
justified.
I also recommend
that each of us consider during this cooling off
meditation period
that Bill has set, a solid post that would easily pass
a fairly
open-minded moderator and could be the basis for a reasonable
thread dicussing
some specific aspect or general theme in beat
literature. That doesn't seem too hard for us to do and
bill probably
deserves to get
some decent mail!
david
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
From:
"sherri" <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>,
"David Bruce Rhaesa"
<race@midusa.net>
Cc: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"Patricia Elliott"
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
"Marie Countryman"
<country@SOVER.NET>,
"Leon Tabory" <letabor@cruzio.com>,
"jo grant"
<jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
"Jerry Cimino"
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>,
"Jean Ory"
<jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>,
"Diane Carter"
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
Date: Tue, 10 Mar
1998 19:39:38 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
i have to agree
with this. among the reasons, though not
first and
foremost, for my
bcoming a wallflower on the list is that it seemed to
disintegrate into
foolishness and, much worse, rudeness and character
assassination. 36 hours is a day and a half. maybe we can practice the
Buddhist art of
reflection and see just what the heck we want from the list
and start putting
the effort into making it that way....
ciao, sherri
-----Original
Message-----
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
To: R. Bentz
Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Cc: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>; Jean Ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>;
Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>; jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>; Leon
Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>;
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>; Patricia
Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>; Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>; Sherri
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Tuesday,
March 10, 1998 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
>R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>>
>> Hi all:
>>
>> I hope
that Bill will not shut down the list, though I can't say that I
>> blame
him for being fed up with all of this. I
have written to Bill
>>
expressing my wish that the list shall not die.
I hope that each of you
>> will do
the same.
>>
>> In the
event that the list does die, I want to express my appreciation
>> to each
and every one of you for making the list
an important part of
>> my life
this last year and more. It has been a
wonderful place for me
>> to learn
and to see some wonderful writing from various individuals.
>>
>> Free the
beat list! Don't let it die.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> Bentz
>>
bocelts@scsn.net
>>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>i don't think
we should view a moderated list -- after the designated 36
>hours or so
cooling off that Bill requested -- as an end to the Beat-L.
>It seems that
it provides the opportunity to deal with fewer posts but
>with posts
that are written to a target audience of "bill" the moderator
>rather than
random post and response that some -- not particularly any
>of US
<grin> -- are guilty of. my hunch
is that if a solid grounding of
>the listserve
in the "flow" that bill intended it began again under a
>moderated
format the process might "flow" back again towards an
>unmoderated
format.
>
>several
things to think about. i think it is a
good idea for people to
>be more
active in greeting newcomers to the list and in presenting our
>view of where
we are in relation to the list and its purposes. part of
>the chaos it
seems to me (and i've not been particularly active since my
>hospitalization)
has been an US-THEM mentality between newbies and old
>farts. I haven't quite fathomed the antagonisms of
the THEMS but
>perhaps the
arts of introduction can help defuse such things before they
>start. Newcomers get a set greeting from the
listserve defining
>generally its
ground - it seems that we expect newcomers to be able to
>intuit our
various connections over time with the listserve and this is
>probably not
justified.
>
>I also
recommend that each of us consider during this cooling off
>meditation
period that Bill has set, a solid post that would easily pass
>a fairly
open-minded moderator and could be the basis for a reasonable
>thread
dicussing some specific aspect or general theme in beat
>literature. That doesn't seem too hard for us to do and
bill probably
>deserves to
get some decent mail!
>
>david
>
Return-Path:
<love_singing@msn.com>
From:
"sherri" <love_singing@msn.com>
To: "Bill
Gargan" <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Cc: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>,
"R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>,
"Patricia Elliott"
<pelliott@sunflower.com>,
"Mike Rice"
<mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>,
"Marie Countryman"
<country@SOVER.NET>,
"M84M79" <M84M79@aol.com>,
"Leon Tabory"
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>,
"jo grant"
<jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>,
"Jerry Cimino"
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>,
"Jean Ory"
<jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>,
"James Stauffer"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
"IDDHI" <IDDHI@AOL.COM>,
"Gerald Nicosia"
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>,
"Gary Mex Glazner"
<PoetMex@AOL.COM>,
"Diane De Rooy"
<Ddrooy@AOL.COM>,
"Diane Carter"
<dcarter@together.net>,
"Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>,
"David Bruce Rhaesa"
<race@midusa.net>,
"CVEditions"
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
"caridade"
<caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:
Date: Tue, 10 Mar
1998 22:07:14 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Bill, this list
has been an incredible gift. i became a
wallflower in part
because my life
was so damned crazy, but also because of the very things you
sited as being so
wrong with list posts these days.
however, i would ask
you to please run
the list on a moderated format for a little while (i know
that it would be
tremendous work for you) and see if we can't get back the
kind of discourse
that made being a listmember so rewarding.
perhaps once
you do this with
the threat that if things regress again, you will shut down
immediately, we
will be able to go back to open posting without all the
garbage flying
back up again.
thanks for your
hard work and tolerance.
ciao, sherri
Return-Path:
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
X-Sender:
jgrant@pop.globaldialog.com
Date: Wed, 11 Mar
1998 11:32:45 -0600
To: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
From: jo grant
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
Cc: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>, Jean Ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>,
Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>,
jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>,
Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
There are many
excellent MODERATED LISTS. One that I follow is the sixties-L.
Kali Tal, the
scholar who originated the sixties list, has volunteers who
help with the
moderation. kali sets the guidelines and every has a direct
line to the
60s--no exceptions and I've never seen a flame get through.
I'm not a Beat
scholar, more of an observer, but it shouldn't be too
difficult to
check posts and return those that are not BEAT to the sender.
To Patricia:
Because of your
relationship to WSB I was wondering if you would like me to
make a copy of
the station break he does for our community radio station
WORT-FM in
Madison. Whenever I hear it I always get a lift. If you'd like a
tape for your
memorabilia I'll make and send you one.
j grant
HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE
ARCHIVES
Details on-line at
http://www.bookzen.com
822,552 Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar
1998 18:23:24 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: small
pome in the list interim
X-MIME-Autoconverted:
from 8bit to quoted-printable by pike.sover.net id SAA14948
what matter?
when not
piecemeal
sentiments but
the entire
english
vocablulary
at your
fingertips, at my
fingertips, is
there any thing
worth sharing in
such form
in such
regularity?
at times it seems
a possibilitly
'that has come to
pass' and
other times i
think it's just
riff and blarney
farts.
boy,
introspection can
challenging to
the psyche.
going to get some
spackle
mc
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar
1998 12:31:07 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: jo grant
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
CC: DCardKJHS
<DCardKJHS@aol.com>, Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>,
Jean Ory <jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>,
Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@aol.com>,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>,
Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
jo grant wrote:
>
> There are
many excellent MODERATED LISTS. One that I follow is the sixties-L.
> Kali Tal,
the scholar who originated the sixties list, has volunteers who
> help with
the moderation. kali sets the guidelines and every has a direct
> line to the
60s--no exceptions and I've never seen a flame get through.
>
> I'm not a
Beat scholar, more of an observer, but it shouldn't be too
> difficult to
check posts and return those that are not BEAT to the sender.
>
> To Patricia:
> Because of
your relationship to WSB I was wondering if you would like me to
> make a copy
of the station break he does for our community radio station
> WORT-FM in
Madison. Whenever I hear it I always get a lift. If you'd like a
> tape for
your memorabilia I'll make and send you one.
> j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
>
it seems that
some method of moderation will do a service to the list in
many ways. i've also suggested the possibility of
returning to the
default reply not
going to the Beat-L. some of the
watering down of the
Beat-L prior to
the most recent bruhaha might have been water that would
have stayed in
off-list tributaries by such a method.
d
Return-Path:
<letabor@cruzio.com>
From: "Leon
Tabory" <letabor@cruzio.com>
To: "David
Bruce Rhaesa" <race@midusa.net>
Cc:
"DCardKJHS" <DCardKJHS@aol.com>, "Diane Carter"
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>,
"Jean Ory"
<jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>, "Jerry Cimino"
<Bigsurs4me@aol.com>,
"Leon Tabory"
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
"Marie Countryman"
<country@SOVER.NET>,
"Patricia Elliott"
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>,
"Rinaldo Rasa"
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>, "Sherri" <love_singing@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
Date: Wed, 11 Mar
1998 23:25:42 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
X-MimeOLE:
Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Hi David,
I am hoping the
rumors of Beat-L's death are greatly exaggerated. Looks like
serious surgery
is indicated for sure. I can live with moderation in
moderation. It's
o.k. with me if we keep our ideals just above the water
line, but know
how to compromise when the weight starts to drag us under.
The storms can be
invigorating and exciting but when they start to
degenerate into
baby egos running out of control, with floatsam polluting to
the top, some
adult hygiene survival techniques got to be tried out.
Reminds me in
some ways of our community efforts in the flower farm. Boy
what a deal we
had! But pretty soon we started to get the shit droppings
left for the old
stallwarts to clean up, we had to try rules. We tried but
had to give up in
the end. The rules never completely
solved the problems.
Reluctantly, we
had to keep adding one on top of another. The no-rules rule
didn't work
either. Hopefully moderation in moderation will work for the
list. I can't
imagine the amount of work that Bill would be inviting upon
himself. Seems
like it would have to be a full time job. Maybe it will
eventually go to that, with a membership fee to pay for
expenses. Would
that produce more
responsible list pumping creative exploration with self
restraint? Aah
what do we do with our lives? We keep struggling valiantly.
I myself stayed
away from the list lately entirely. The ratio of signal to
noise became too
weak and too time consuming. Haven't unsubscribed though.
Somehow I feel it
is worth weathering all the storms. Developments in
cybercommunications
are just beginning to bear fruit. This list was it for
me
as far as fresh
nurturance from the new cybergarden. The
beats sure were on
the forefront of
checking out new developments before they became viable
strategies. Their
triumphs and failures in literature and in
(lagging) life
as well. The list
contained healthy doses of both, which is a lot more than
can be found
anywhere else, surpassing and outgrowing academia's atrophying
standards.
For these and
more reasons I have full faith that this is not a dying tree
in the
cybergarden. How
will the garden grow? The gardeners will experiment. The
roots will dig
for nurturance and stability. The flowers will reach for the
sun and the
shade. New flowers, new fruits new writers and new literature
will be nurtured
here. Not born of an elite class of priests and power
mongers, but in
the relative anarchy of cyberspace where the voices and
vices of the high mingle with the mighty. Are we
coming to a point where a
list owner can
not maintain all power over everybody,
and neither can any
shithead be
allowed to continue to dump their shit over everybody's heads.
Next step, shared
responsibilities, methods to be worked on. How exciting.
Too bad I got no
time or I would love to be involved. I will stay involved
as a lurker or
support that is asked.
I could list
benefits of the list, but we are not writing obits here. I am
glad that a few
of us are staying in touch regardless. I like your mailing
idea and feel
honored to be
included in. Please continue to keep me posted. Thanks friend.
We will be in
touch, I feel quite sure of that.
leon
-----Original
Message-----
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
To: jo grant
<jgrant@bookzen.com>
Cc: DCardKJHS
<DCardKJHS@aol.com>; Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>; Jean
Ory
<jean-ory@ALTRANET.FR>; Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@aol.com>; Leon
Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>;
Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>; Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>;
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>; Sherri
<love_singing@msn.com>
Date: Wednesday,
March 11, 1998 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Save
the beat list
>jo grant
wrote:
>>
>> There
are many excellent MODERATED LISTS. One that I follow is the
sixties-L.
>> Kali
Tal, the scholar who originated the sixties list, has volunteers who
>> help
with the moderation. kali sets the guidelines and every has a direct
>> line to
the 60s--no exceptions and I've never seen a flame get through.
>>
>> I'm not
a Beat scholar, more of an observer, but it shouldn't be too
>>
difficult to check posts and return those that are not BEAT to the
sender.
>>
>> To
Patricia:
>> Because
of your relationship to WSB I was wondering if you would like me
to
>> make a
copy of the station break he does for our community radio station
>> WORT-FM
in Madison. Whenever I hear it I always get a lift. If you'd like
a
>> tape for
your memorabilia I'll make and send you one.
>> j grant
>>
>> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
>> Details on-line at
>>
http://www.bookzen.com
>> 822,552
Visitors 07-01-96 to 03-01-98
>>
>it seems that
some method of moderation will do a service to the list in
>many
ways. i've also suggested the
possibility of returning to the
>default reply
not going to the Beat-L. some of the
watering down of the
>Beat-L prior
to the most recent bruhaha might have been water that would
>have stayed
in off-list tributaries by such a method.
>
>d
>
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar
1998 14:18:11 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>, Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Subject: father
poem part 4
part 4
so this is grief?
under iron sky
we bury the ashes
of the body of my
father
this man, who
placed his
needs first
through
manipulation
still has power
to crush with his
going.
if a whisper can
produce pain,
such raw pain,
then understand
the power
of the heat of
the creamatorium
eradicating his
soiled meat
yet still,
whispering to me,
he stays, and i
burn with pain.
prior to the
burial,
i entered my
brother's house
and saw the
delicate chinese blue and white
porcelin vase
sitting on the
dining table.
it took awhile to
make the connection,
but when i did,
i thought how he
would hate going for his
last outing
dressed so, but
dared not to speak it.
they are
surprisingly heavy, these ashes:
it's not just
ashes, you know,
it's ashes and
bones.
weigh a lot.
fluff them
blackly
under iron sky
shot with purple
madness.
this muffled
numbness
wondering who is
sobbing
only to discover
it is me
so this is grief?
this muffled,
numb, heaviness?
and what to do
with the anger?
oh, to be trapped
in anger of the dead
alone
no one to cry
with, rage with,
and yet
to be unwilling
to let go.
right now it is
my father that i cry to,
curse at, mourn.
(c)marie
countryman
Return-Path:
<"country"@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar
1998 15:05:14 +0000
From: Marie
Countryman <country@sover.net>
To: "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>, Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Subject: sweat
and leave
sweat and leave
sweat and leave
part
together
sweat and leave
part together
bed feet
only trudge but
in the day
some one did
watch
some one did say
some still
sweat leave and
part together
bitterblood
leave and eat
bed for summer
smooth
sweet sweat,
cook delicate
please
see a whisper
feel the damage.
leave and eat.
mc (c) marie
countryman
To:
gguerner@tin.it
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
re:Request of information (fwd)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Luca,
sono contento che
tu stia traducendo i beat. se non ti dispiace
puoi tenermi
informato di come procede il tuo lavoro, e quando
uscira' la
traduzione?
grazie, e buona
domenica,
Rinaldo.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
(venezia-mestre)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>X-Sender:
kh14586@am.appstate.edu
>Approved-By: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
>Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:45:53 EST
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@acs.appstate.edu>
>Subject: Request of information (fwd)
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>
>Got this
request and have no real notion as to where to send this person
>myself. Thought if anyone would know, they'd be here.
>
>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 13
Mar 1998 12:43:14 +0100
>From: Luca
Guerneri <gguerner@tin.it>
>To:
kh14586@porter.appstate.edu
>Subject:
Request of information
>
>I visited
your website and found it extremely interesting. I'a an
>Italian
literay translator working
>on the
Italian version of Old Angel Midnight. It is such a hard task...
>do you know
where I could find
>some detailed
information concerning the book? Please contact me: my
>email is
gguerner@tin.it.
>Thanks
>
>l u c a
>
>Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar
1998 17:42:16 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: ZIMMERMAN
<jzim5@hotmail.com>, Zarefsky <d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>,
"zambezi@falcon.cc.ukans.edu"
<zambezi@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
ZAC
<zachery_anderson@hotmail.com>,
William E Newnam
<wnewnam@emory.edu>,
WILD_BILL
<Bill.Henderson@uni.edu>,
wichitastate
<jarman@elliott.es.twsu.edu>,
WEISWOMEN <weisk@helpnt.org>,
Watson <BrettWats@aol.com>,
Virgil Balthrop
<vwb@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>, imaa@midusa.net,
"urinal<grin>publisher"
<Hrayl@saljournal.com>,
TrunkJayhawk
<Steve.Thompson@usd305.com>,
"tjardes, sue"
<tjardes@ups.edu>, Tim Carroll <KCTC@FHSUVM.FHSU.EDU>,
Thin <jeffrt@wichita.infi.net>,
TATE <tate@wonderlink.net>,
JTalley4n6@aol.com, Susan_Stanfield
<SUEBELL@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>,
sunrise
<sunrise.parti@pcusa.org>,
steveMgriffin
<sgriffin@law.tulane.edu>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
starwars <Brian_Stucky@ers.com>,
star <smuir@OSF1.GMU.EDU>,
slypork <dscunningham@nwu.edu>,
sigel <doug@gyro.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu,
seward23 <seward23@aol.com>,
seed2 <sksdallas@aol.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>,
Scott Segal
<SEGASH+aPO1%Bracewell_&_Patterson@mcimail.com>,
SCOTT HARRIS
<sharris@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
Scott Deatherage
<lsd041@nwu.edu>,
Sam and Beth Stevens
<sbstevens@mcione.com>,
"s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@calvin.usc.edu>,
roDger
<rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>, Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
racy@primenet.com, reynaldo
<rgarcia@tacc.org>,
reicherT <ReicherT@nasd.com>,
"rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu"
<rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu>,
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"RandyStace@aol.com" <RandyStace@aol.com>,
Randy Lake
<rlake@almaak.usc.edu>, "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>,
principal <dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
PJ <pauljohn@ukans.edu>,
phares@falcon.cc.ukans.edu,
pelliott@sunflower.com,
OSTROM
<janice.ostrom@usd305.com>, NELSONj <john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
neckermank
<neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Nathan Coco <ncoco@mwe.com>,
mignoli <docmignoli@aol.com>,
"Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@global.california.com>,
"Meyer, Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
melanie
<melanie_crawford.parti@pcusa.org>, meany <JKM1993@aol.com>,
Mark Hassman
<hassman@midkan.com>, marie <country@sover.net>,
louise_brokaw
<PBY_EAST_IOWA@pcusa.org>,
"louden, allan"
<louden@wfu.edu>, "lingel, dan" <dlingel@why.net>,
Linda Powell
<Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>,
LexingtonHS
<L_Phillips@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us>, brooklyn@netcom.com,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
Lassie <dkpenn@oees.com>,
BLain@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu, kstate
<joburtis@ksu.edu>,
Koch_Steve <skoch@capital.edu>,
kneckerman <poroi@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
"kmcgaffey@bogle.com"
<kmcgaffey@bogle.com>,
kevin kuswa
<k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
"Kent A. Ono"
<kaono@ucdavis.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
Kenneth DeLaughder
<Kenneth.DeLaughder@enmu.edu>,
k_broda_bahm <kbrodabahm@towson.edu>,
Joshua Hoe <ifjxh@hotmail.com>,
john sloop
<sloopjm@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>,
John Fritch
<john_fritch@hotmail.com>, jd.rollins@mail.utexas.edu,
jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
J-Bird <b-loomis@ukans.edu>,
Jamey Dumas <dumas@GONZAGA.EDU>,
"hingstman, david"
<dbhingst@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
HeadBear
<Karla_Leeper@BAYLOR.EDU>, HARMON <debate@midusa.net>,
Greg Schnippel
<schngre@harpo.cns.iit.edu>,
Gordon Mitchell <gordonm+@PITT.EDU>,
gordo2 <jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
al.girtz@salhelp.org, Gibson
<rgibson@prairienet.org>,
g_lane
<laneg@william.jewell.edu>, FtHaysdebate <Joeb@media-net.net>,
FISHBONES <sakana69@hotmail.com>,
"Eric L. Krug" <elkrug@kcnet.com>,
emporiastate
<BILESROD@esumail.emporia.edu>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
Edward Schiappa
<schia001@gold.tc.umn.edu>,
Ed Panetta
<EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>,
Echrist
<ELChristensen@SNOPUD.com>, dukeofOPERA <WTeller692@aol.com>,
DRTUNA@aol.com, "Dr. Roald Tweet
x7467" <ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>,
donnaV <vineyard@midusa.net>,
DireStraits <kthomp@rocketmail.com>,
"dilley, benita"
<bdilley@castle.cudenver.edu>,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>,
designatedhitter
<STRICKLG@esumail.emporia.edu>,
DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@aol.com>,
"david.glass@regpha.com"
<david.glass@regpha.com>,
David Mark Cheshier
<joudmc@PANTHER.GSU.EDU>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>, culver <nculver@fwenc.com>,
CousinMichelle <MSandon@aol.com>,
CousinJohnRhaesa <HPDJRACE@aol.com>,
cousinBetty <walegge@midusa.net>,
Cori Dauber <cdauber@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>,
coffeebreak <reichart@att.com>,
Clune <a871@fhsu.edu>,
Clay <lewen.thompson@midkan.com>,
cindy <RevCynthia@aol.com>,
charlesSmith
<cmsmith126@aol.com>,
CELTICPRIDE
<William.F.Russell@Dartmouth.EDU>,
CEDARRAPIDS <cawilkie@comic.net>,
carrie_crenshaw
<ccrenshaw@ua1vm.ua.edu>,
carlin
<prentice@falcoln.cc.ukans.edu>,
Bruce Gronbeck
<gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
BRONX
<sodikowr@voyager.bxscience.edu>,
breshears
<d.breshears@mail.utexas.edu>, BrentT <Bthomp4444@aol.com>,
Brandon&Holly
<BThom4449@aol.com>, Bob Stone <bstone@terraworld.net>,
Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>,
begrand
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>,
Becky Galentine
<theloft@ACCESSONE.COM>, BEAR <MWBRYANT@aol.com>,
racee@primary.net, auntdonna
<dgh@MCI2000.com>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>, Antoine
Maloney <stratis@odyssee.net>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>,
ABILENE
<dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>, 0Stine <StineKC@aol.com>
Subject: GO
JAYHAWKS
my alma mater the
Kansas Jayhawks are behind to Rhode Island in the
second half and
march madness has hit me.
in hopes of the
luck that a chain letter can bring i'm sending this off
to all of you
with the words
ROCK CHALK
JAYHAWK KU!!!!
under 4 minutes
left in the game
with fingers and
toes crossed,
dbr
Return-Path:
<pelliott@sunflower.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar
1998 18:39:56 -0600
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: Re: Alan
Kaufman a younger generation poet.
What a great time
I had when i revisited your list. It was
a joy to
scroll and think
about or be reminded of so many. Thank
you. I
appreciated the
time you have given us.
patricia
To: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: grazie.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<350C74DC.3538@sunflower.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980315113254.006f9994@pop.gpnet.it>
grazie patricia,
always a great moment to read yr words
on the 'puter
display. alot of credit to the web list of
beats is yours
(and the friends who add their love to the beat generation).
i was emailed by
Alan Kaufman he said:
>Do American
poets ever get invites to perform in Italy? I've been flown
>over to
perform in Germany (four times!), England, Scotland, Holland and
>Austria but
never to Italy and I'd love to do that!
My French-Jewish mother
>was rescued
by Italian partisans during the war and I've always wanted to go
>there but
haven't the funds. Poetry does not yeild great wealth to most of us.
>Let me know
if you know of anything.
>
>Best, Alan
>
as for me im' i
excuse my compatriots,
& the above
mentioned
alan writing in
something carry me back to yr thoughts 'bout
provincialism,
again grazie,
ciao,
rinaldo.
To: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ACCROSS
THE RIVER Re: GO JAYHAWKS
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<350C6758.3AEA@midusa.net>
References:
david says:
>my alma mater
the Kansas Jayhawks are behind to Rhode Island in the
>second half
and march madness has hit me.
>
>in hopes of
the luck that a chain letter can bring i'm sending this off
>to all of you
with the words
>
>ROCK CHALK
JAYHAWK KU!!!!
>
>under 4
minutes left in the game
>
>with fingers
and toes crossed,
>
>dbr
>
>
STANDIN'ON THE BRIDGE
TODAY I STOPPED
ON THE BRIDGE
THE RIVER
I THROW
CHEWING-GUM
and glanced at
green water
HEMINGWAY ERNEST
THE TREES are
always there & the crumbling house
HE WROTE HIS BOOK
near the river TAGLIAMENTO
i think that the trees
are around the old house
THEY ARE THE SAME
OF THE 1917,
I SAW THE CHEWING-GUM
OVERWHELMED IN THE
LOW WATER OF THE RIVER
rinaldo
17mar98
To:
sgarrett@scf.usc.edu
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the list
of beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Beth Everhart,
good day,
im' very honoured
'bout yr attention & offer to help
the develpment of
the shit kicking list of the beats
but, pls, point
yr browser to
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/thebeats.htm
in order to know
better what's the BeatSuperNova.
the first source
of the list is the friends of the
Beat-L (the
mailing list of the beat generation)
the second source
friends of the alt.books.beatgeneration
at leats my own
memory, im' 48 year old,
the list of beat
is growing as people add name to name,
thnx for the
insight & help u can carry on.
saluti,
Rinaldo Rasa.
Venice-Mestre,
Italy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Return-Path:
<sgarrett@scf.usc.edu>
>Date: Mon, 16
Mar 1998 09:44:38 -0800
>From: susan
garrett <sgarrett@scf.usc.edu>
>To:
rasa@gpnet.it
>Subject: the
beats
>X-URL:
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatspic.htm
>
>Hi- I was
cruising along trying to find some info. on Diane Di Prima when
>I stumbled
upon your page. I saw that you wanted
the names of the
>beats--what
exactly do you need? I'm taking a class
on Beat poets right
>now so maybe
I can be of some help. Go ahead an e-mail me, or not,
>whatever at
everhart(at)scf.usc.edu ( my at key isn't working on my key
>board)
> -- Beth Everhart
>
>
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Mar
1998 16:32:11 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
ACCROSS THE RIVER
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
>
> STANDIN'ON THE BRIDGE
>
> TODAY I
STOPPED
> ON THE
BRIDGE
>
>
> THE RIVER
>
> I THROW
CHEWING-GUM
> and glanced
at green water
>
> HEMINGWAY ERNEST
> THE TREES
are always there & the crumbling house
>
> HE WROTE HIS
BOOK near the river TAGLIAMENTO
> i think that
the trees are around the old house
> THEY ARE THE
SAME OF THE 1917,
>
> I SAW THE CHEWING-GUM
> OVERWHELMED IN THE
> LOW WATER OF THE RIVER
>
> rinaldo
> 17mar98
nice!
To: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: jazzED
on the net Re: ACCROSS THE RIVER
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<350EF9EB.511A@midusa.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19980317190434.006aea4c@pop.gpnet.it>
David Bruce
Rhaesa says:
>nice!
l o w WATERofTHErIVER--
______in 1977-78
when i was a industrial worker, then
i was kicked off
the factory, i've started again to w
rite poetry in
1996 trhu the net. i was kicked off th
e factory 'cos
poemas was toMuch murky and alice wasn
t thru the
glass&iposted on showcase where the Lord h
ad a panel people
can write whoever?--------STOP-----
rinaldo
18mar98
Return-Path:
<race@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar
1998 18:48:09 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
To:
"stauffer@pacbell.net" <stauffer@pacbell.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>, pelliott@sunflower.com,
"Michael R. Brown"
<foosi@global.california.com>,
marie <country@sover.net>,
brooklyn@netcom.com,
Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>,
jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>, DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@aol.com>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
begrand
<vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>, arthur nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
Antoine Maloney
<stratis@odyssee.net>
Subject: [Fwd:
Rejected posting to BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU]
Rather than spend
one of my precious 3 posts a day i decided to forward
this post to
people that are beat-l related in my address book. feel
free to forward
to others i don't have in my book. at 3
posts a day
i'll probably
stick with on the road and maybe desolation angels stuff
right now.
d
Return-Path:
<>
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (cunyvm.cuny.edu [128.228.1.2])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id
SAA03170
for <race@MIDUSA.NET>; Thu, 26 Mar 1998
18:12:31 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id:
<199803270012.SAA03170@mail.midusa.net>
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4)
with BSMTP id 5247; Thu, 26 Mar 98 18:59:32
EST
Received: from
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 3397; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:59:32 -0500
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:59:32 -0500
From:
"L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8c)" <LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Rejected posting to
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
To: Race ---
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
X-UIDL:
8461ee4c73bd51851fa7dcc6e6496446
X-Mozilla-Status:
0001
The
distribution of your message dated Thu, 26
Mar 1998 17:53:45 -0600 with
subject "Re:
straw men and other rhetorical
attacks" has been rejected because
you have
exceeded the daily per-user message
limit for the BEAT-L list. Other
than the
list owner, no one is allowed to post more than 3 messages per day.
Please resend
your message at a later time if you still want it to be posted to
the list.
------------------------
Rejected message (87 lines) --------------------------
Return-Path:
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
Received: from
CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 3373; Thu,
26 Mar 1998 18:59:14 -0500
Received: from
mail.midusa.net by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP;
Thu, 26 Mar 98 18:59:13 EST
Received: from
services.midusa.net (node92.salina.midusa.net [206.28.169.92])
by mail.midusa.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with
SMTP id SAA16578
for <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>;
Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:12:08 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
<351AEA89.804@midusa.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar
1998 17:53:45 -0600
From: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
Organization:
smiling small thoughts
X-Mailer: Mozilla
2.01KIT (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re:
straw men and other rhetorical attacks
References:
<199803262320.PAA29352@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> At 04:25 PM
3/26/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> >>
> >>
That is, in my opinion, the worst kind of facism, and when it is used to
> >>
attack a highly respected biographer, I think it is quite fair to call it
> >>
"bashing."
>
>> --Gerald Nicosia
> >
> >I'm not
qualified to get into the literary details of this matter, but i
> >would
say that the fallacy of appeal to authority is as prevalent as the
> >fallacy
of the straw person in some of these threads.
> >
> >dbr
> >
> Dave, are
you saying, along with Diane, that if I read something of Kerouac
> and it
depresses me, I shouldn't be allowed to say so here, without having
> my whole
life's work damned?
> --Respectfully, Gerry Nicosia
i felt that the
post had two points of disagreement. the
first was a
disagreement
concerning your impressions of Some of the Dharma. that's
just simple
disagreement from where i sit. Given
that Some of the
Dharma's release
post-dates Memory Babe, it would be difficult to
rationally
consider it part of an extension of Memory Babe. Your post
seemed
impressionistic to me. I will suggest
that both the
"Nicosia-bashers"
and the "Nicosia-worshipers" do you a disservice in
not letting you
just be a person on the listserv. Your
opinion is
fallaciously
given more weight than sometimes it should and i believe
many read
anything you write off the estate question as some sort of
extension of your
biographical writing. perhaps this is
the price of
fame!
The second
portion of the post, it seemed to me, was only analogically
linked to the
first disagreement. As i read it, DD's
disagreement with
your
impressionistic post reminded her of some sort of disagreement,
perhaps
tangential, in your writings of some sort of intro or something
to Memory
Babe. The disagreement in the second
portion of the post
seems to take on
a slightly different tenor b/c it is critical
examination not
of an impression per se, but of an impression codified
in Beat
scholarship. As such, it seems that the
rules of disagreement
are slightly
different. It seems that on this list
suggest a higher
level of scrutiny
of critical and scholarly writing. It
seems that the
second portion
would suggest a defense of your interpretive process on
your part or the
alternative of simply letting it go and ignoring it.
Criticism of
biography seems a valid point for threads (i recall some
discussion of
literary outlaw awhile back) but just because you are on
the list i don't
see any reason why you should feel compelled to respond
point by point to
all criticisms - especially ones you find specious or
of a straw
nature. If you felt that DD's post made
a decent argument
about the
interpretive processes you employed in your writing - a
defense of those
would seem appropriate - but otherwise it seems like
let the straw fly
in the wind.
I'm not saying
that DD's post is valid or not concerning its argument
about your
interpretive processes. That would be a
subject for
discussion and
debate and critical scholarly examination.
We all might
learn a lot from
it. I would prefer that argument on the
list
concerning
"scholarly matters" not be silenced by any means. I also
admit that i
didn't pay close enough attention to the details of DD's
argument to come
close to evaluating and one post in a thread hardly
seems sufficient
development to even begin to draw conclusions.
does that make
any sense to anyone?
d
Return-Path:
<writers@writers.com>
Comments:
Authenticated sender is <writers@pop.ncal.verio.com>
From: "Mark
Dahlby" <writers@writers.com>
Organization:
Writers on the Net
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Date: Sun, 29 Mar
1998 11:11:16 -0800
Subject: poetry
Reply-to: writers@writers.com
Priority: normal
Hi Rinaldo,
I saw your
subscription notice to your list, "poetry." I've taken you
off as it's a
closed list used for classes that we offer over the
Internet. If
you'd like to know more you might visit our web site at:
http://www.writers.com
Best,
Mark Dahlby
****************************************************************
WRITERS ON THE
NET -
http://www.writers.com
Tutors/literary
mentors, classes, writers' groups.
If without web
access, e-mail for information.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Gibson
Re: Science Fiction
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
...???...
"A drumbeat
began, electronic, like an amplified heart, steady as a metronome" --
William Gibson, johnny mnemonic -- the broth by cronenberg dramatic metaphora
of the birth is almost near to the world-gibsnonesque, wsb is not recognized as
a sci.fi writer, ballard instead ya, &cronenberg is fine, brazil is fantasy,
...???...
yrs rinaldo * 7
percent of men are cyborg *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: City
Lights Books.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
hi, are here
somene of City Lights Books that can help me, i have a question concerned
bookstores abroad, yrs rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
kids are right, always.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Diane wrote:
>> friends,
>>
yesterday in the computer room, a kid with IT by stefen king,
>> i asked
him ''do you have read ON THE ROAD?'',
>> he:''yes
prof, already read'',
>> i
:''then?'',
>>
he:''it's boring''
>> i :''u
are right''
>> time are
changing, i think to reply ''when u are older...'',
>> but i
stop this thought 'cuz not seem a good tactic, &
>> almost
always i agree with the kids,
>> yrs
rinaldo.
>
>
>I'm just
wondering...how young was this youngin?
>
>Diane.
>
>
HE WAS 15 YEARS
OLD,
yrs rinaldo * a
not competent beat *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
kids are right, always.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jennie wrote:
>On Fri, 31
Jan 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>>
>> HE WAS
15 YEARS OLD,
>> yrs
rinaldo * a not competent beat *
>>
>
>I wish that
people wouldn't generalize... I was only 14 when I discovered
>the wonders
of Jack Kerouac.... 4 years later (still probably considered
>a kid by
most) and I still can't get ahold of enough beat lit to keep me
>occupied...
so many books... so little time! Not all
the "kids" are more
>interested in
Steven King and others, you just havn't met the right kids yet.
>
>jennie
>
>
jennie, reading
book is always a good thing, the kid is cool&sensible, in my opinion, the
thing is that by the moment, hystoric-or-whaterver is darking the
beat&feeling of the old great experience, thanx for the comments, yrs
rinaldo.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Carlo
& Pink Floyd in Venice.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
LJ wrote:
>>I thought
I'd recalled that it was you who flamed me when I impugned the
>taste of
ANYONE who didn't like Pink Floyd.
>
>>Apologies
if I got that wrong.<<
>
>Hey,
apologies fully accepted!
>
>For the
record (no pun intended), I _like_ Pink Floyd.
>
>Not sure they
are beat, though. (-;
>
>LJ
>
HOMAGE TO CARLO THE BEAT,
A MAN
the factory where
I worked be about to
near to the jails from Venice.
face to face.
each of us during
the pause
he was smoked cigarettes and
he looked at beyond the window
Carlo already was for madden
he smiled & he smiled
i smiled to him
while the
machines did a noise of hell
he began to howl and to sing
i smiled to him
date from spring
1980, one of better period of my life only for having such a friends,
yrs rinaldo * a
not competent beat *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
RE:Trainspotting and beat.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends, what's
exactley the semantic of the word trainspotting.
here in italy in
some way is connected with young cannibals who they throw stones on the cars or
on the wagons of the trains arousing accidents and casualties. many of them
once bagged from the police doesn't know how to explain the motive of their
gestures, rebels without a cause?, yrs rinaldo.To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Coney Island Of the Mind
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Jerry Cimino
wrote:
>Ferlinghetti's
Coney Island is the book that first introduced me to the Beats
>at the tender
age of 14 or so... 8th grade and Mr. Schneider is reading
>Poetry to us
in English Class. Reading Poem #5, page
15 was a revelation for
>me... being a
young impressionable schoolboy having just escaped Catholic
>School for
the first time in my life I was blown away by this one poem...
>never heard
anyone describe this anytime anywhere before or since... I gotta
>post it for
anyone who's never seen it!
>> snipped
<<
>Jerry Cimino
>Fog City
Facts & Fiction
>www.kerouac.com
>
>
The Old Italians
Dying
For years the old
Italian have been dying all over America
For years the old
Italians in faded felt hats have been sunning themselves and dying
You have seen
them on the benches
in the park in
Washington Square
the old Italians
in their black high button shoes the old men in their old felt fedoras
with stained hatbands
have been dying and dying
day by day
...
here i stop the
poem by Lawrence Ferlinghetti written in 1979.
born as Lawrence
Ferling Monsanto,
the name
Ferlinghetti sound an homage to Giuseppe Ungaretti the italian poet,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Ron
Whitehead
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Okay.. I'm
new to this list, and I have no idea who Ron Whitehead is, and
>I don't
particularly care either. You see I
subscribed to the list to
>talk about
the members of the Beat Generation and their writing. So if
>this Ron guy
left... that's too bad for him. And if
he's coming back,
>that's cool
too. BUT CAN WE TALK ABOUT SOMETHING
ELSE NOW???
>
>jennie
>
&jeannie
& others,
when Ron
Whitehead said ''Adios'' to the Beat-List, i intend this as a a moral choice,
&that's ok,
BUT
now anybody (see
previous emails) seems to propose that he has gone 'cuz
too busy from be not able to post a letter to us. it sound me too
improbable.
his
flash-lightspeed
disappearing from
the B-List, is still a mistery, in my opinion.
if he leaves
because of the behavior few chatty of a person/s it's ok.
each of us is
tired and writes for a Buddhist compassion for oneself and the others, nobody
(i hope) asks a score-performance from
nobody, or an audience-share score if not he/she abandon the stage.
i consider myself
a Ron Whitehead fan, he posts some Kerouac refrains i read only in italian
translation & keep them in american was a joy, i hope he (in first person)
explain us his thought, it's too difficult?
another point,
humbly, i disagree with the email him thru thirth person, while i think THIS is
the cyber-place-or- whatever-is-it to post our thoughts, nice sunday, yrs
rinaldo * not a competent beat *To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Trainspotting and beat.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
mc wrote:
>She-Ra wrote:
>>
>> In
England, "trainspotting" is suppossedly a hobby of 20-somethings who
>> write
down the minutest details about trains, ie. schedules, when which
>> train
crosses which intersection, number of cars, etc. (especially
>> details
about departures and arrivals) >> omissis <<
>**********
>accurate
definition. as the tattered crew do NOT trainspot, my
>> omissis
<<
>humble
apologies for the long runon sentence(s). no time to edit.
>mc
>
marie, thanx for
the Blaise Pascal quote at the end of yr email.
in the room of a
''trainspotter'' the journalist have found two books one of stephen king &
another of alchemy, his friends tell that he is a good guy as a bunch of
others, but he he is accused of have killed a young wife throwing a stone from
a crossover while he looked at to pass the automobiles.
the judge tells
that these guys have empty mind. absolutely empty.
no connection
with drugs or consumerism only empty&empty.
is a trainspotter
an existentialist (a man revolte') on the road?
i must notice
that the sentence ''on the road'' is recognized as to keep & go outside
without a destination, yrs rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Generation Ques.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
<<Maybe
what I'm really asking is, What is this world coming to?
Anyhow - this all
comes from a bad case of millenia-phobia.
Sorry to make it
so long an email, but please respond. I await your opinions.
Thanks!
jen>>
millenia in my
point of view:
in the 2050 i
will be probably deceased. perhaps before.
sometimes i think
the beat as a life backtracking, a boat that sails for Canada with relatives
that i won't see more, a Bergman b&w movie in november,
leaves autumns
courses from the wind on the lagoon, a Glen Miller disks collection,
Ginsberg
censored, the fifty of my infancy,
jen, i hope this
can help,
yrs rinaldo * a
not competent beat *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Trainspotting and beat.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
The end of
violence,
the new film of
Wim Wenders
is an astringent
action of accusation
against the way
embodied from Quentin Tarantino.
the actress Andie
MacDowell said:
"days do
have stayed much disturbed from the reaction of some friends with which we were
looking at a cassette of Trainspotting, because to them gave much bother the
sight of the needles with which the characters are injected the heroin, but
when we have seen Fargo, with heads that they explode from all the parts,
nobody has told nothing. we are all become accustomed to seeing actions of
violence in television that there doesn't do more no effect, i then am
completely from the part of Wim, and I hope that this film is able to communicate
the importance of his message".
yrs rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Is
this the Ron Whitehead List?????
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>>> I
realize I am further perpetuating the problem about which I am complaining
simply by writing this email, but ENOUGH already about Ron!!!!!
-Liz <<<
just a moment,
for the political correctness, i suggest u to hacking the Beat-L ListServ &
get some archived post of past months, in brief time u have an idea who is ron
whitehead. further i underline the fact that ron as a friend (ya, cyberfriend)
who posted on the Beat-L almost daily, in this seven months i'm on the net, is
deserved a bit of consideration or do i make a mistake in completely?
Liz & others,
have a nice monday,
yrs rinaldo * a
not competent beat *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Last
post...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
ITALIA:VENEZIA:MESTRE:970203:LUNEDI'
>>>Wes
I'll miss your
point of view.
James
<<<
a duck flew to
north,
a duck flew to
south,
an other above
the nest of the cuckoo.
ciao wes, a
presto,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Carlo & Pink Floyd in Venice.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 23.47 03/02/97
-0500, you wrote:
>rinaldo,
>
> Can you do us the pleasure of giving us
your poem in Italian? Did
>you write it
in Italian or in English originally?
>
> Antoine
>
> ****************
>
> HOMAGE TO CARLO THE BEAT,
> A MAN
>the factory
where I worked be about to
> near to the jails from Venice.
> face to face.
>each of us
during the pause
> he was smoked cigarettes and
> he looked at beyond the window
>Carlo already
was for madden
> he smiled & he smiled
> i smiled to him
>while the
machines did a noise of hell
> he began to howl and to sing
> i smiled to him
>
>date from
spring 1980, one of better period of my life
>only for
having such a friends,
>yrs rinaldo *
a not competent beat *
>
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>"only
person who makes less than a poet is
>person who
publishes poetry." - Ron Whitehead
>
>
that italian got
me some trouble...
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: what is
the poetry?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>>> Can
you do us the pleasure of giving us your poem in Italian? Did you write it in
Italian or in English originally?
Antoine <<<
Antoine e amici,
la poesia mi ha
accompagnato in importanti momenti della vita.
dapprima negli
anni 60; quando ero studente partecipavo con un gruppo di amici che avevano
letto "Jukebox all'Idrogeno" e scrivevano nello stile di Ginsberg: le
chiamavano poesie Zen. una specie di strum-und-drang nel 1968. io, in realta'
ascoltavo molto e poi molte poesie le scrivevo per meglio chiarire le mie idee
ma non le leggevo agli amici.
devo dire che, in
quel periodo,
mi hanno
influenzato: Allen Ginsberg, L'Antologia di Spoon River e Cesare Pavese.
quest'ultimo mori' suicida nell'estate del 1950, qualcuno dice per un amore
impossibile per Constance Downling, Pavese tradusse il Moby Dick, per primo in
italia.
quando lessi
Jack Kerouac fui
molto attratto dalla sua prosa, (al punto che mi comprai l'edizione penguin
inglese di OnTheRoad) e piu' tardi quando uscirono in libreria i Refrains e
MexicoCityBlues, compresi che poesia e prosa sono molto vicini.
attorno agli anni
80 (appare Pound)sono diventato un "poeta" pubblico/politico per un
certo periodo, e sono stato apprezzato abbastanza, ma poi ho dovuto pagare un
prezzo piuttosto alto.
oggi partecipando
alla Beat-List mi ha ripreso la passione per la poetica. penso che non potrei
scrivere se non per degli amici siano essi 200 cyberfriends o 400 blue-collars
come megli anni 80.
l'inglese come
media linguistico ho cominciato ad usarlo proprio nei primi anni 80, qualcosa
di simile agli ideogrammi cinesi che Pound propone come mezzo poetico, ma il
mio amore per la lingua inglese risale a vicende della mia infanzia.
la mia
baby-sitter dopo essersi sposata emigro' in Canada, e da Edmonton, Alberta
mandava spesso bellissime cartoline e scriveva "greetings" io ero
affascinato, e poi quando qualche volta veniva in Italia suo marito mi spiegava
che l'inglese canadese non era l'inglese che studiavo a scuola...
non so se ho
spiegato qualcosa, in fondo è la poesia che spiega le cose a noi...
here my translation:
[
the poetry has
accompanied me in important moments of the life.
at first in the
sixty; when i was student i participated with a group of friends that they had
read "The Hydrogen Jukebox" and they wrote in the style of Ginsberg:
they called her poetries Zen. a kind of strum-und-drang in the 1968. i, in
reality i listened to much and then many poetries wrote it for good clarify my
ideas but i didn't read it to the friends.
i must tell that,
in that period,
they have biased
me: Allen Ginsberg, The Spoon River Anthology and Cesare Pavese. suicidal in
the summer of the 1950, anybody tells for an impossible love for Constance
Downling, Pavese translated the Moby Dick, for first in italy.
when aggrieved
Jack Kerouac was
much attracted from his prose, (to the point that i bought me the edition
English penguin of OnTheRoad) and late
when they went out the Refrains and MexicoCityBlues in bookstore,
inclusive that poetry and prose are very near.
around to in the
eighty (heappears Pound) i have become a "poet" public/ political for
a certain period, and i have been appreciated enough, but i then must have paid
a price rather tall.
today
participating the Beat-List me it has taken back the passion for the poetic.
i think that I
could not write if not for of the friends be they 200 cyberfriends or 400
blue-collars like better in the eighty.
the English like
linguistic media has started to use it just in the first eighty, anything of
similar to the Chinese ideogram that Pound proposes like poetic media, but my
love for the tongue English goes up again to events of my infancy.
my baby-sitter
after have married she emigrated in Canada, and from Edmonton, Alberta sent
very handsome postcards often and wrote "greetings" I was spellbound,
and then when she sometimes came in Italy his husband explained me that the
Canadian English was not the English that I studied to school.
in conclusion I
don't know if I have explained anything, in deep it is the poetry
that she explains
the things to us.
]
antoine &
all, have a nice tuesday,
yrs rinaldo * a
not competent beat *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: you come
to come B-52
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Antoine,
&all,
the HST Fear
italian translator sandro veronesi, is out in italy with a book title
"Venite, Venite B-52" here a critique:
"You come,
you come, B-52. You come here, throw you it here the bomb, you come and sweeps
by all, she as begs Viola in front of the window in the hope that the American
bombardiers uncouple the atomic bomb in the garden of his house, Viola it is
the daughter adolescence of a man from the thousand faces and extraordinary
incarnation of an impatient Italy and conformist, idealist and vulgar, brainy and
scanty." yrs rinaldo.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Paradise
Alley.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
in the
Subterraneans, the apartment of Paradise Alley it result to the 401 of East
Eleventh Street in the East Village.
Kerouac has
transferred the setting from New York to San Francisco for avoid a lawsuit.
i for a
combination in the 1978 have seen an entitled film "Paradise Alley"
starring Sylvester Stallone, it is memorable the scene of the sucidal bum that
throws in the river Hudson telling ALL THIS within hundred years it won't have
any sense more.
is there any
coincidence between the two Paradise?
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Ron
Whitehead.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
ITALIA:VENEZIA:MESTRE:970204:MARTEDI'
>>>DB:
am posting this
to list (you gotta get a moniker that i can cut and paste; yrs runs off edge of
my screen recalcitrantly) ... just wanted to say i loved yr post.
mc<<<
H E R E,
also better:
the venice carnival,
today i have sat
down
on the dock
to see the gulls
fish in the lagoon.
i'm tired, mother!
no guy masked,
i'm tired, mother!
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Frank
O'Hara.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
MUSIC
by Frank O'Hara
If I rest for a moment near The
Equestrian
pausing for a liver sausage sandwich in
the Mayflower Shoppe,
that angel seems to be leading the horse
into Bergdorf's
and I am naked as a table cloth, my nerves
humming.
Close to the fear of war and the stars
which have disappeared.
I have in my hands only 35c, it's so
meaningless to eat!
and gusts of water spray over the basins
of leaves
like the hammers of a glass pianoforte. If
I seem to you
to have lavender lips under the leaves of
the world,
I must tighten my belt.
It's like a locomotive on the march, the
season
of distress and clarity
and my door is open to the evenings of
midwinter's
lightly falling snow over the newspapers.
Clasp me in your handkerchief like a tear,
trumpet
of early afternoon! in the foggy autumn.
As they're putting up the Christmas trees
on Park Avenue
I shall see my daydreams walking by with
dogs in blankets,
put to some use before all those coloured
lights come on!
But no more fountains and no more
rain,
and the stores stay open terribly
late.
this poem was
written in 1953.
it is from LUNCH
POEMS, poems by Frank
O'Hara, published
by City Lights Books in 1964 in San Francisco, California.
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Wim
Wender on the Web.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
<title><h2>Wim
Wenders on the Web.</h2></title> <HTML> <BODY
TEXT="RED" BGCOLOR="GREEN"> <DT> <font
size=4> <HR>
friends,<br>
the page of Wim
Wenders
has been updated
with addition of photos.<br> the address of the page is the
following:</DT> <DT> <A
href="http://www.italway.it/spettacolo/wenders/index.html" >
http://www.italway.it/spettacolo/wenders/index.html</A>
</DT>
<br> <HR> </BODY> </HTML>
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Ron
Whitehead
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>>>you
are just a casual user of the Beat List, keep track of how much time a day
>you spend on
it. It does suck up more time than you think and there just ain't
>enough time
always, to do all the things you want.> DB <<<
i'm tired, u are
tired, he is tired,...
i agree with yr
point of vie BUT if my memory not fades the Ron Adios is OTHER motivated, if
i'm not misundestand all, every man is tired, but, i insist this List is not an
arena for performance, a ron post sometime in grateful, but an Adios differ a
lot in my opinion,
DB thanx for the
reply, i appreciate a lot, yrs rinaldo * a casual user of the Beat List *To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Adios?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
I DREAMED I SANG
'AMAZING GRACE' WITH THE SEAL CHOIR AT THE ZOO wrote:
>>>I'm
not tired, Ron isn't tired, it's just this thing called LIFE!
Not always enough
time for everything.[snip]It is time to move on to other things, it's just that
I think some people are getting the wrong idea about Ron.
Signed,
An un-casual user
<<<
lucky men, u
never get tired?, don't miss the point.
i LIKE a lot THIS
LIST, & LIFE hitself IS also
mind&thought&heartbeat&dontflashingkeepaway&everything&
notexcusetodowhatuhavemakeforalongperiod&nowudisappear&lostyrfriends.
in front of the
truth the B-List had a bit problem in two occasions, in my memory of casual
user & not a competent beat:
one)in a post
someone that described WSB LIFE hidden that relevant event that WSB shot his
wife, this was for me an heavy inaccuracy in the bio & i noticed the hole
is remarkable, ya in the B-List there is a "WSB Cult", i'm not in
this basket but i'm not against WSB just a little piece of his LIFE hidden, a
little annoyance but...
two)ya moving on
to other things, Ron said Adios & turn off to dead channel. this the end of
the tread? ya?
have a nice day,
yrs rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Wim
Wenders a Beat ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>>
<title><h2>Wim Wenders on the Web.</h2></title>
>>
<HTML> <BODY TEXT="RED" BGCOLOR="GREEN">
<DT> <font size=4> <HR>
>>
>>
friends,<br>
>> the page
of Wim Wenders
>> has been
updated with addition of photos.<br>
>> the
address of the page is the following:</DT> <DT>
>> <A
href="http://www.italway.it/spettacolo/wenders/index.html" >
>>
http://www.italway.it/spettacolo/wenders/index.html</A>
>>
>>
</DT> <br> <HR> </BODY> </HTML>
>>
>> yrs
rinaldo.
>
>so do you
really think wim wenders is a beat (a late Beat or just
>influenced by
the Beats)?
>that sounds
really strange to me...
>further
comments appreciated.
>Jens
Moellenhoff
>University of
Munich, Germany
>http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen
>
i think that Wim
Wenders is a beat (or a meta-beat), also Werner Herzong in the same way,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Larry
Rivers & Frank O'Hara.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Mike wrote:
>Thanx
Rinaldo!!
>
>Just reading
the O'Hara bio _City Poet: The Life and Times of
>Frank O'Hara_
by Brad Gooch at the moment and this was a nice
>little intro
before I take my plunge into the tub...
>
>Mike
>
thanx Mike for yr
reply, i post this for u,
Frank O'Hara & Larry Rivers.
----------------------------
New York School,
of which O'Hara is one of the animators, contributed, around the half of '50s,
to do meet varied disciplines- music, painting, poetry.
Friend of
Ginsberg and from him much admired, O'Hara have publicized from the same
magazines that entertain the Beat, also if not always shares the style of it.
Kerouac in fact
didn't appreciate O'Hara.
A day Kerouac
interrupted a his reading of poetries to the Living Theatre shouting:
" Been
ruining the American poetry!".
Instead
<<How to Proceed in the Arts, Evergreen Review ,1961>> is a
subsequent testimony of the creative spontaneity of the Beat is in direct
connection with the chord of the artists of other disciplines.
Here O'Hara,
together to the painter Larry Rivers, he theorize a total expressive liberty
for the visual arts.
-------------------------------------------------
Frank O'Hara was borne in Baltimora, Maryland, in the 1926 and he died in Long
Island, New York, in the 1966.
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: your
BEAT GENERATION
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Timothy K.
Gallaher at 10.36 08/02/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>>[snipped]Vale,
the editor, worked
at City
Lights.<<<
please, if Vale,
is listening it's possibile to have the email address of CityLights Italy (may
be in Florence , Firenze Italia or plannind to move to Venice,Italy?)?
have them a
CityLights an http??
thanx a lot for
helping me,
yrs rinaldo.
Venice,Mestre,Italy:saturday,22:25To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Right Kid Revised.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Venice,Mestre,Italy:saturday,
friends,
same kid, i
himself, same computer room, today morning: remember that kid reading OTR &
IT, now he is reading "The Lost World" by Michael Cricton,
asked him: why
this book?
him: his the
sequel of Jurassik Park & the movie, prof.
i: good point!
just a thought:
& A FUTURE MULTIMEDIA BEAT?
--- diario beat
---
The Beats Go ON,
La Biennale di Venezia web site.
quoted from JAMES
HAY adapted by rinaldo rasa.
DAL SALOTTO ALLA
STRADA: OVVERO COME MAI KEROUAC E' STATO IL BEAT PREFERITO DALLA TELEVISIONE.
from the living
room to the street: how come Kerouac has been the beat preferred from the
television.
"
In tarda serata,
il night-club televisivo ospitò un'intima lettura fatta da Kerouac (teneri
ricordi di Dean Moriarty) che fu trasmessa nei salotti della nazione -
espressione e risultato di ciò che Raymond Williams ha chiamato
"privatizzazione mobile". Per Williams la parola si riferiva ad una
condizione e ad un risultato che ridefiniva le relazioni spaziali domestiche
con il mondo esterno nell'era dei mezzi di comunicazione radiotelevisivi. Se le
famiglie e i gruppi sociali si disperdevano e se la vita domestica era sempre
più organizzata "a distanza" - rispetto ai vecchi centri urbani o
agli ambiti provinciali - l'importanza della mobilità e dell'accesso da e per
la casa diventava sempre più importante. La televisione è, così, storicamente
divenuta un importante fattore sia della vita domestica sia delle vie di flusso
verso l'esterno, e verso nuove e vecchie relazioni. La spinta verso la
privatizzazione degli insediamenti nella provincia era una risposta alla
scomparsa della cultura pubblica, ma ne costituiva insieme una concausa.
Attraverso la televisione, stare a casa cominciava a significare essere per
strada, alla ricerca di autenticità e di una comunità organica pur nell'ambito
di una società pervasa dalla televisione e dalle sue storie nomadi. È questo,
dunque, il contesto in cui si formò ed emerse il concetto popolare di
Beat."
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Americand Friend, Dennis Hopper & Wim Wenders.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
--- diario beat
---
"Ci sono
naturalmente molte altre foto (e fotografi) che ritraggono le figure Beat come,
ad esempio, i memorabili ritratti degli artisti di San Francisco, tra i quali
Snyder e Ferlinghetti, fatti da Herry Redl, che scattò anche una stupenda foto
notturna con un Ginsberg dagli occhi sbarrati che guarda il St. Francis Hotel,
ispirazione per il Moloch di "Howl".A Los Angeles, l'attore Dennis
Hopper, prima di dirigere Easy Rider, si dedicava alla fotografia; e visto che
Hopper era un bravo fotografo, la vittoria del cinema rappresentò in questo
caso una sconfitta per la fotografia. Non era esattamente un artista Beat, ma
nel registrare le proprie esperienze contribuì a comprendere in modo più
esaustivo la posizione della corrente Beat nella cultura americana degli anni
'60, suggerendo correlazioni specialmente col mondo dell'arte, ma anche col
movimento dei diritti civili e con ciò che egli definisce, in uno dei suoi
libri di fotografia, come "la scena" - un'espressione che include
tutto, da Ginsberg ai bikers, da Timothy Leary al rodeo."
quoted from ROB
SILBERMAN adapted by rinaldo rasa.
The Beats Go ON,
La Biennale di Venezia web site.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Maledetti vi amero', Italy 20years ago.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
an italian
anniversary, today, for the Countercultural Movement that it threw the bases
for the arrival of the Beat Poetry in Italy to the festival of poetry in
Castelporziano two year after (in the 1979).
In Italy in the
1977 there was finally who in front of the alternative among Moscow and Berlin
preferred choose Paris surrealist; or the ecology, the music, the dance, the
poetry.
Recover the life,
the messages travel radio with the waves: Alice, Red Wave, Future City,
Sherwood.
To the of there
of the dream-like countercultural movement marked the acquisition of an
awareness: the students understood clearly that they would not be more become
like in past the managing class. From a part the era of the mass-worker was
closed bulk. And from the other the computer machine departs a new figure of
worker.
all have a nice
monday,
yrs rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Italy
celebrates the Beat Generation, 67 poesie.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
italy, milan, 11 feb 97 * for celebrate a year of successes of the
"Myths series". *
from Kerouac to Ginsberg the Beat Poets in
the Myths.
=====================================================
the Myths Poetry:
an indisputable success of the Mondadori, an italian publishing house, gone to
the of there of each more optimistic forecast, that has surprised many and
irritated anybody.
Just today 11
February 1997 arrives in bookstore the book "Beat Generation, 67
poetries" a double volume with which the publishing house in Milan, it
celebrates a year of excellent sales of his books of poetries.
they am been
without other excellent reasons for do party: the poetry, the Cinderella of the
literature, described with a certain joylessness like the intellectual passion
of an elite, destined to the small numbers, it has grabbed his revenge on the
market.
a literary
commodity confectioned with ability and appreciated from a big number of
unspected readers has become readership.
In "Beat
Generation, 67 poetries" they am collected the texts (unpublished in
Italy) of some beloved and argumentative characters like Jack Kerouac and Allen
Ginsberg, Gregory Corso and Lawrence Ferlinghetti. Like all the other books of
the series, the distribution is anticipated not only in bookstore but above all
in newspaper kiosk and in the supermarkets.
The public has
appreciated until to today particularly the poetry of Emily Dickinson, Walt
Withman, Eugenio Montale, Charles Bukowsky.
in the cover a
very handsome photo of JK, cigarette in hand, and charismatic glance,
nice day to all,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Italy celebrates the Beat Generation, 67 poesie.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 18.14 11/02/97
-0500, you Ginny Browne wrote:
>where can you
get this book rinaldo?
>
now it's out only
in italy, later more, thanx for the interest about the growing evergreen beat
heart thru the world,
in future i can
post and htmlized of this book, if b-listers are interested,
nice day,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Massimo
Troisi e Lello Arena.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Antoine wrote:
>>>[snipped]
"Il Postino" came up as another beautiful, literate film, both having
the strong presence of Italy. Did you see "Il Postino"? What did you
think?<<<
friends, amici
beat,
antoine, come tu
sai "Il Postino" è stato l'ultimo film di Massimo Troisi, non ho
potuto vederlo perchè la morte (infarto
dopo il film, ma Massimo era ammalatao fin da piccolo) e le lacrime e il dolore
mi impedirono di vederlo. In futuro con piu' calma lo vedro' di sicuro, in TV
qualche volta lo trasmettono, ma il dolore e' ancora troppo forte...Massimo è
rappresentante della Napoli povera dei
quartieri degradati soprattutto negli anni '70 e '80, insieme a Lello Arena, e
in molti cabaret apparsi in TV negli anni 70 e 80 era meraviglioso. L'Oscar e'
stato meritatissimo, aveva una comicita' che puo' stare alla pari con Antonio
De Curtis (Toto'). Troisi e' una perdita
per tutti noi...
my translation of
above text:
[
as you know
"Il Postino" the last film of Massimo Troisi has been, I could not
have seen it because death (after the
film cuz a stroke) would have brought tears to my eyes.
Massimo is
representative from poor Naples of the busted districts above all in the years
the 70s and the 80s, together to Lello Arena, and in many cabaret appeared in
TV in the years 70 and 80 were marvelous.
like Antonio De
Curtis (Toto') he is in foverver in our heart...
]
this i wrote is a
brief sketch of Massimo,
all have a nice
day,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Massimo
Troisi & the "first" Nanni Moretti in the 77.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Antoine wrote:
>>>I
also knew about Troisi's death within days of the completion of "Il
Postino". It made the ending of the film particularly hard to bear. an
Italian woman at the film showing with us was completely distraught at the end
of the film with the combined power of the film and the knowledge of Toisi's
death.[snipped]
Antoine <<<
antoine,
massimo troisi is
a beat, sure, his best, in my opinion, is the cabaret-sketch, often brodcasted
by italian Tv, in cut&past clip, then he shift to films, in "Cuori
nella tempesta", "Ricomincio da tre", (after comes Neruda...)
Massimo Troisi is
ingrained in the Naples, one of the three components of the Italian culture,
the others two are that Florentine and Venetian, that made the Italian as it is
(add Dante Alighieri, of course & after the WWII, the American culture as a
feeling&mix). Troisi as an artist born in 1977,
his fragile naive
mask represent an italian beat with resource of humor also under the rain where
the friends match the friends.
Same period (77)
another film director
Nanni Moretti
with "Io sono un autarchico", filmed in marvelous super8, is an
example of "italian-self-made-beat", then in film "Ecce
Bombo" (a sequel) then Moretti become a manager, in my opinion, after his
great success at the box-office. i remember that 1977 (twenty years ago) italy
was a laboratory for counter-culture & slowly dismissed the ideological
controversy & grounded for the mass-poetry of 1979.
now the events of
that year are webing at http://www.taonet.it/77web title "77, una storia nutriente",
an literature anthology of that period, for me i remember the fall 1977 at the
Convegno di Bologna, but here...
i must stop, my
heart beat too quickly cuz i remember my brother...
& the future
suddenly become the past, i can't split the culture by life, now the green
grass is growing under the sun,
nice day to all,
yrs rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Italy celebrates the Beat..
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Judy wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-02-12 11:23:22 EST, you write:
>
><< Can
you let me know whether this anthology
is written in Italian or
>whether
> it's in
English by Italian scholars.
> Tks
> Judy
>>
>
>Rinaldo:
>
>Is the new 67
Poesia translated into Italian with original English too in the
>book or is it
just Italian translations of the poems?
>
>
SORRY, Judy, only
italian translation BUT there is a bunch of names i don't know eg. Malcom Lowry,
Kenneth Patchen, La Loca, Anne Waldman, Harold Norse, Robert Nichols, Bob
Kaufman, Janine Pommy-Vega, Denise Levertov, with poems.
i'm very
interesting in cross-crossing it<->us of this poems, cuz i always like
the original in front of translation of course, BUT u must think that this
excellent book has a prize of 2$ & 146 pages,
if some
beat-listers are
interesting
(except the most famous beat), the others i mentioned above, i can post the
poem in italian then a gentle people re-post in english as a favour for me, a
poor italian...
nice day to all,
rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Italy celebrates the Beat..
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Jeffrey Weinberg
wrote:
>Rinaldo:
>
>Is the new 67
Poesia translated into Italian with original English too in the
>book or is it
just Italian translations of the poems?
>
Jeffrey, sorry
ONLY italian
BUT there is a
group of names
i don't know eg.
Malcom Lowry, Kenneth Patchen, La Loca, Anne Waldman, Harold Norse, Robert
Nichols, Bob Kaufman, Janine Pommy-Vega, Denise Levertov, with poems. if
someone has the english original i appreciate if post on B-List.
many thanx,
yrs rinaldoTo: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
intermezzo italiano.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
the boy wrote
with the computer,
while he listened
to play the song "Goodtime",
i have asked him
if he had devoted to his girlfriend,
but he has told me prof, this song has
devoted like wish
to my sick grandmother,
dear alessandro,
great boy.
nice morn,
yrs rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Allen
Ginsberg interviewed.
Cc:
BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends, a snip
of ...
----- Americana, febbraio 1997, Italy.
ELF (c) -----
Gloria GLICKSTEIN
BRAME
intervista ad
Allen GINSBERG.
[gloria]: se lei
avesse venti anni oggi, in questa America nera,
scriverebbe ancora versi? E di cosa
scriverebbe?
[allen]:scriverei
un altro Howl - Vorrei poter scrivere
un HowlII che parlasse del presente.
Eppure, da questa
situazione puo' uscire fuori qualcosa
di buono, il potere dell'
America di rovinare il mondo puo' essere bloccato come e' stato bloccato il potere russo, che al
mondo avrebbe fatto
la stessa cosa.
Forse tocchera' a una potenza europea
il compito di rovinarlo,
ma speriamo che sia una cultura che lo
rovina un po' meno.
e' forse arrivato il momento che l'ago
della bilancia
si sposti in Europa.
[gloria]:
tornando alla poesia, perche' non scrive un altro Howl?
[allen]: sarebbe
impossibile. ma quasi mi piacerebbe scrivere qualcosa
che parlasse del progressivo
strangolamento della liberta' in
America e di come la corruzione del
governo stupri la anima.
[gloria: ha idea
di quale sara' il futuro della poesia?
[allen]: la
poesia e' un raggio di buonsenso, un raggio di chiarezza
individuale in ogni direzione e in
qualsiasi luogo - che sia
Internet, locali pubblici, aule
universitarie. La poesia,
con la sua compagna, la musica, un
mezzo di comunicazione
che non e' controllato
dall'establishment.
my english
translation below:
Gloria GLICKSTEIN GREEDS
interview to Allen GINSBERG ....
[gloria]:"if
is twenty years old today, in this black
America,
would you write verses still? And you
of thing would write?" [allen] :"i would write an other Howl I want
to can to write
a HowlII that speaks about the present.
Yet, from this
situation anything could go out out of
good, the power
from America of ruin the world it could
be jammed like
it has been jammed the Russian power,
that to the world
would have done the same thing. Maybe
it will touch an
European power the assignment of ruin
it, but we hope
that it is a culture that the ruins a
few minus. it is maybe
arrived the moment that the needle of
the balance
moves in Europe.
[gloria]:
returning to the poetry, because doesn't you write
an other Howl?
[allen]:it would
be impossible. but almost I would like write
anything that speaks about the
progressional choke of
the liberty in America and of like the
corruption of
the government assault the soul.
[gloria]: does
you have idea of which it will be
the future of the poetry?
[allen] : the
poetry is a ray of common sense, a ray of individual
clarity in each direction and in any
place- that it is Internet,
public premise, universities
classrooms. The poetry, with
his companion, the music, a media of
communication that has not
checked from the establishment.
....
---------------------------------------
in the article a marvelous
photo of
Gregory Corso & Allen
Ginsberg togheter
as young as it is possible,
dated 1951.
---------------------------------------
nice day to all,
yrs rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
CorRispondenze, via Roma,36 - 33037 Pasian di Prato, Udine, Italy.
Cc:
BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
this review
titled "CorRispondenze",
has some poems by
Loredana Bogliun, his poems are bi-linguistic italian & english, wonderful!
(helping the
traslation by Renato Alfresco).
here i post an
example of this Loredana Bugliun new poetry.
La pietra
dentro alla campagna
gonfia la pietra
aspetta
il suo asino
che sta arrivando
con l'orecchio
attento
questi occhi mai
sono stati assonnati
nenache tra le pietre della stalletta
dove la bora passa la stradina
el'anima scalda la mangiatoia
di quest'animale silenzioso
e cosi' arriva dalla stalletta
alla casetta di campagna
fatto come per ascoltare queste pietre
insieme per drasi portamento
e' bella questa mia casetta di campagna
quando l'asino la guarda incantato
The stone
In the countryside
the stone sweels,
awaits
its donkey arriving
with alert ears.
These eyes were never weary
not even between the stones of the
stall
where the bora (*) rides through the
lane
and the soul warms the manger
of this quiet animal
that so arrives from the stable to the
farm house,
as though made to hear these stones
to hold him up besides.
It's beautiful, my little house on the
farm
when the donkey watches it, charmed.
(*) bora=northeast wind typical of the
upper Adriatic.
all have a nice
day,
yrs rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: PAURA...
by HST, parte prima.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
<HTML>
<TITLE>
HUNTER S.
THOMPSON, PAURA E DISGUSTO A LAS VEGAS </TITLE>
<BODY TEXT="RED"
BGCOLOR="#000000">
<h1><b>HUNTER
S. THOMPSON,
<BR>PAURA E
DISGUSTO A LAS VEGAS</b></h1> <h3>ILLUSTRAZIONI DI RALPH STEADMAN</h3>
<h3>TRADUZIONE DI SANDRO VERONESI</h3>
<h3>BOMPIANI
© 1996</h3>
<h5><italic>htmlzied
by rinaldo rasa, february 1997, & grateful thanks to autori associati,
italy.
</italic></h5>
<hr><CENTER>PARTE
PRIMA</CENTER><br><br> <TD><tt><b><font
size=3>
Eravamo dalle
parti di Barstow al limite del deserto quando le droghe<br> cominciarono
a fare effetto. Ricordo che dissi qualcosa come: "Mi<br> sento la
testa un tantino leggera; magari potresti guidare tu..." E<br>
immediatamente dopo ci fu un terrificante ruggito tutt'intorno a noi<br>
e il cielo si riempì di enormi pipistrelli strillanti in picchiata
sulla<br> nostra macchina, la quale filava a centosessanta all'ora verso
Las<br> Vegas con la cappotta abbassata. E una voce gridava: "Santiddio!<br>
Cosa cazzo sono questi animali?"<br>
Poi
tornò la calma. Il mio avvocato si era tolto la maglietta e si
ver-<br> sava birra sul petto, per facilitare l'abbronzatura. "Cosa
cazzo urli?"<br> brontolò, puntando il sole con gli occhi
chiusi e protetti dai suoi<br> occhiali da sole spagnoli
super-avvolgenti. "Lascia stare," dissi.<br> "Tocca a te
guidare." Diedi un colpo di freni e puntai il Grande<br> Squalo
Rosso verso il bordo dell'autostrada. Inutile parlare dei pipi-<br>
strelli, almeno credo. Il povero bastardo li avrebbe visti da solo
abba-<br> stanza presto.<br>
Era quasi
mezzogiorno, e avevamo ancora più di centosessanta chi-<br>
lometri da fare. Sarebbero stati chilometri duri. Molto presto, lo<br>
sapevo bene, saremmo stati tutti e due completamente sballati. Ma<br> non
c'era modo di tornare indietro, né tempo per riposarsi.<br>
Dovevamo trottare. La distribuzione degli accrediti per la favolosa<br>
Mint 400 era già cominciata, e noi avremmo dovuto essere laà
entro le<br> quattro per farci assegnare la nostra suite insonorizzata.
Una lussuosa<br> rivista sportiva di New York si era premurata di
riservarcela, insieme<br> a questa immensa <B>Chevrolet
decappottabile</B> rossa che avevamo<br> appena ritirato al
noleggio sul Sunset Strip... e io ero, dopotutto, un<br> giornalista
professionista; perciò avevo il dovere di <i>fare il pezzo
</i>, bene<br> o male.<br> L'editore sportivo mi aveva dato
anche un anticipo di 300 dollari <br> in contanti, la maggior parte dei
quali era già stata spesa in droghe<br> estremamente pesanti.
Il baule della macchina pareva un laboratorio<br>mobile della narcotici.
Avevamo due borsate di erba, settantacinque<br>palline di <b>mescalina</b>,
cinque fogli di <b>LSD<b> super-potente, una saliera<br>piena
zeppa di cocaina, e un'intera galassia di pillole
multicolri,<br>eccitanti, calmanti, esilaranti... e anche un litro di
tequila, uno di <br> rum, una cassa di <b>Budweiser</b>, una
pinta<br>di etere puro e due dozzine<br> di fiale di
<b>popper</b>.<br> Tutto ciò era stato rastrellato
la notte prima, in un raptus di guida<br>a tavoletta su e giù
per la contea di Los Angeles - da <b>Topanga</b> a <b>Watts</b>,
incamerando tutto quello su cui riuscivamo a mettere<br>le mani. Non che
per il viaggio <i>avessimo bisogno</i> di tutta quella roba,
ma<br> una volta che ci si trova risucchiati in una seria raccolta di
droghe, la<br> tendenza è di spingerla più in là
che si può.<br> L'unica cosa che realmente mi preoccupava era
l'etere. Al mondo<br> nonc'è nulla di più indifeso e
irresponsabile e depravato di un uomo<br>nelle profondità di
una sbornia di etere. E io sapevo che in quelle<br> profondità
saremmo precipitati entrambi abbastanza presto.<br>Probabilmente alla
prima stazione di servizio. Avevamo collaudato<br>praticamente tutto il
resto e ora - sì, era tempo per un lingo cicchetto<br>di etere.
Per poi fare i successivi centosessanta chilometri in preda<br>a un
orribile, sbavante stupore spastico. L'unico modo per rimanere<br>vigili
sotto etere era farsi un bel po' di popper - non tutto insieme,<br>ma con
regolarità, abbastanza da mantenere il fuoco a
centocinquanta<br>all'ora attraverso Barstow.<br> "Gente,
questo sì che è viaggiare," disse il mio avvocato. Si
sporse<br> per alzare il volume della radio, mugolando a tempo con la
sezione<br>ritmica e smozzicando le parole:"One toke over the line,
Sweet Jesus...<br>One toke over the line..."<br> Un tiro di
troppo? povero scemo! Aspetta finché no vedrai anche<br>tu quei
maledetti pipistrelli. Io la radio la sentivo a malapena... buttato<br>
com'ero verso il sedile lontano, a combattere con un registratore<br<che
sparava a tutto volume <b>Sympaty for the Devil</b>. Era
l'unico<br>nastro che avevamo, e lo mandavamo di continuo, senza sosta,
in una<br>sorta di demenziale contrappunto con la radio. E anche per
mantenerci<br>a ritmo con la strada. Una velocità costante
è ideale per il rimborso<br> spese a chilometro e per alcune
altre ragioni che al momento<br>sembravano importanti. Certo. In un
viaggio come quello <i>bisognava</i>fare attenzione al consumo.
Bisognava evitare quei bruschi colpi di<br>acceleratore che sparano il
sangue nel retro del cervello.<br> Il mio avvocato vide l'autostoppista
molto prima di me. "Diamo<br>un passaggio a questo ragazzo,"
disse, e prima che potessi opporgli<br>qualsiasi argomento si era
già fermato e quel povero tonno correva<br>verso la macchina
con un largo sorriso stampato sulla faccia dicendo:<br> "Cazzo, non
sono mai stato su una decappottabile prima d'ora!"<br>
"Davvero?" dissi. "Be', immagino che tu sia pronto,
eh?"<br> Il ragazzo annuì entusiasticamente e rombammo
via.<br> "Noi siamo tuoi amici," disse il mio avvocato,
"Non siamo come<br> gli altri."<br>
Oh Cristo,
pensai, ha perso il cervello, "Non una parola di
più,"<br> sibilai. "O ti butto addosso le
sanguisughe. "Lui sorrise, mostrando<br> di aver capito.
Fortunatamente, il rumore nella macchina era così<br> forte -
tra vento, radio e registratore - che il ragazzo nel sedile di dietro<br>
non pot´ sentire una parola. O sentì?<br> Per quanto
avremmo <i>resistito</i>? Mi misi a fantasticare.<br> Quanto
tempo sarebbe passato prima che uno di noi due cominciasse<br> a delirare
con quel ragazzo? Cosa avrebbe pensato, lui? Quello stesso<br> deserto
era stato l'ultimo domicilio conosciuto della famiglia<br>
<b>Manson</b>. Avrebbe fatto quella sinistra associazione, il
ragazzo, quando<br> il mio avvocato avesse cominciato a gridare a
proposito di pipistrelli<br> e di enormi razze che scendevano dal cielo
sulla nostra macchina?<br> Se sì, be' non ci sarebbe rimasto
che tagliargli la testa e seppellirlo<br> da qualche parte.
Perché va da sé che non potevamo lasciarlo
andare.<br> Ci avrebbe immmediatamente denunciato a qualche sottospecie
di<br> sperduta stazione di polizia piena di nazisti che ci sarebbero
corsi dietro<br> com cani.<br>
Gesù!
Lo avevo <i>detto</i>? O lo avevo soltanto pensato? Stavo
parlando?<br>Mi potevano sentire? Lanciai un'occhiata al mio avvocato, ma
lui<br> sembrava del tutto immemore - lo sguardo fisso sulla strada, le
mani<br> sul volante del nostro Grande Squalo Rosso lanciato a
centosettanta<br> all'ora. Nessun suono dal sedile posteriore.<br>
Forse era meglio conversare un po' con quel ragazzo, pensai. Forse,<br>
se fossi riuscito a <i>spiegargli</i> le cose, sarebbe rimasto
tranquillo.<br> Certo. Mi girai, sporgendomi verso di lui con un gran bel
sorriso e<br> ammirando la forma del suo cranio.<br>
"E
comunque," dissi, "c'è una cosa che forse sei in grado di
capire."<br> Mi fissava, senza battere ciglio. Stava digrignando i
denti?<br> "Mi senti?" urlai.<br>
Annuì.
"Benone,"
dissi. "Perché voglio che tu sappia che stiamo andando<br>
a Las Vegas per scovare il Sogno Americano. "Sorrisi. "Ecco
spiegato<br> perché abbiamo noleggiato questa macchina. Era il
solo modo per<br> farlo. Riesci ad afferrare?".<br>
Annuì
di nuovo, ma aveva gli occhi nervosi.<br> "Voglio che tu sappia
tutto quello che c'è da sapere," dissi.
"Perch&ecute<br> questa è una missione piuttosto bieca
- con sprazzi di estremo pericolo<br> personale... Diavolo, mi ero
completamente scordato di queste<br> birre; ne vuoi una?"<br>
Scosse la
testa.<br>
"Un po' di
etere?"<br>
"Cosa?"<br>
"Niente.
Veniamo al sodo. Sai, circa ventiquattr'ore fa eravamo<br> seduti nella
Polo Lounge del Beverly Hills Hotel - nel patio, naturalmente -<br> ed
eravamo appunto seduti là, sotto una bella palma,<br> quando il
nano in uniforme è venuto da me con un telefono rosa in
mano<br> e ha detto: 'Questa dev'essere la telefonata che avete aspettato
per<br> tutto questo tempo, signori.' "<br>
Risi e aprii una
lattina di birra che straripò soumeggiando su tutto<br> il
sedile di dietro mentre io continuavo a parlare. "E sai una
cosa?<br> Aveva ragione! Stavo aspettando quella chiamata, solo che non
sapevo<br> chi me l'avrebbe fatta. Mi segui?"<br>
Il volto del
ragazzo era una maschera di confusione e di puro terrore.<br> Andai
avanti:"Voglio che tu capisca che quest'uomo al volante è
il<br> mio <i>avvocato</i>! Non è un semplice
svitato trovato sullo Strip. Merda,<br> <i>guardalo</i>! Non
sembra come me e te, giusto? É perché è
straniero.<br> Credo che sia samoano. Ma non ha molta importanza, no? O
hai dei<br> pregiudizi?"<br>
"Oh, no,
no!" disse convinto.<br>
"Non l'ho
mai pensato," dissi. "Perché nonostante la sua
razza<br> quest'uomo mi è estremamente prezioso." Guardai
il mio avvocato,<br> ma la sua mente era davvero altrove.<br>
Picchiai un pugno contro lo schienale del guidatore. "Questo
è<br> <i>importante</i>, maledizione! Questa
è una <i>storia vera</i>!" La macchina ebbe uno
scarto stomachevole, poi tornò a filare dritta. "giù
le mani dal<br> mio fottuto collo!" gridò il mio
avvocato.<br> Il ragazzo, dietro sembrava ormai pronto a giocarsela
saltando giù<br> dalla macchina in corsa.<br>
Le nostre
vibrazioni si stavano facendo cattive - ma perch´ Mi<br> sentivo
confuso, frustrato. Era scesa l'incomunicabilità in quella
macchina?<br> Eravamo degenerati fino al livello di <i>bestie
mute</i>?<br> Perché la mia storia <i>era</i>
vera. Ne ero certo. Ed era estremamente<br> importante, avvertivo, per il
<i>significato</i> del nostro viaggio far sì
che<br> questo risultasse assolutamente chiaro. Siamo stati sul serio seduti
in<br> quel polo Lounge - per molte ore - a bere <b>Singapore
Sling</b> con<br> mescal a parte e birra per mandarli
giù. E quando la chiamata era<br> arrivata, io ero
pronto.<br>
Il nano si era
avvicinato con cautela al nostro tavolo, mi ricorso, e<br> dopo che mi
ebbe passato la cornetta del telefono rosa io non dissi<br> parola,
ascoltai e basta. Una volta riattaccato mi voltai verso il mio<br>
avvocato. "Erano i capoccia," dissi. "Vogliono che vada subito a
Las<br> Vegas, e che entri in contatto con un fotografo portoghese di
nome<br> Lacerda. Lui mi fornirà i dettagli. tutto quel che
devo fare è prendere<br> possesso della mia camera, e lui mi
cercherà."<br> Per un momento il mio avvocato non disse
nulla, poi d'improvviso<br> rinvenne sulla sedia. "Dio beato!"
esclamo&grave. "Mi pare già di vederlo<br> Questo tipo
sì che sarà un problema!" Pigiò la maglietta
kaki dentro<br> ai suoi pantaloni bianchi di acrilico a zampa d'elefante
e ordinò di<br> nuovo da bere. "Avrai bisogno di una
quantità di consigli legali<br> prima che questa faccenda sia
finita," disse. "E il mio primo consiglio<br> è di
prendere a noleggio una macchina molto veloce senza tettino e<br>
andartene via da L.A. per almeno quarantotto ore." Scosse la
testa,<br> tristemente. "Ciò mi rovinerà il
fine-settimana, poichÉ naturalmente<br> dovrò venire
con te - e dovremo armarci."<br> "Perché no?"
dissi. "Se vale la pena fare una cosa come questa, è<br>
per farla bene. Avremo bisogno di un equipaggiamento decente e un<br>
pieno di soli a disposizione - non foss'altro che per le droghe e per<br>
un registratore a cassette super-sensibile, per dotarsi di una documentazione<br>
oggettiva."<br> "Che storia è questa?"
"La Mint
400," dissi. "É la più ricca corsa fuoristrada
per motociclette<br> e <b<dune-buggy</b> nella storia dello
sport organizzato - uno spettacolo<br> fantastico in onore di quel burino
arricchito di nome Del <b>Webb</b><br> che possiede il
lussuoso Mint Hotel nel centro di Las Vegas...<br> Almeno questo
è ciò che dice il comunicato stampa; il mio uomo
a<br> New York me lo ha appena letto."<br>
"Bene,"
disse lui. "In qualità di tuo avvocato ti consiglio di
comprare<br> una motocicletta. Altrimenti come puoi seguire
convenientemente<br> una cosa come questa?"<br> "In
nessun altro modo," dissi. "Dov'è che possiamo mettere
le<br> mani su una <b>Vincent Black
Shadow</b>?"<br> "E cos'è?"<br>
"Una moto
fantastica," dissi. "L'ultimo modello è qualcosa
come<br> seimila centimetri cubici., sviluppa duecento cavalli-vapore a
quattrocentomila<br> giri al minuto su un telaio al magnesio dal peso
totale a riposo<br> di novanta chili esatti con due sedili di polistirolo
espanso."<br> "Sembra l'ideale per una faccenda come la
nostra," disse.<br> "Lo è," gli assicurai.
"La troia non è granché in curva, ma è un<br> vero demonio nei rettilinei. Si lascia dietro
un F-111 sulla pista di<br> decollo."
"Decollo?"
disse "E noi resisteremo alla sollecitazione?"<br>
"Assolutamente. chiamerò New York per un po' di contante."
<br>
<hr></font></b></tt></td>
</BODY></HTML>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 1961:in
memory of radio.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
this poetry
approaches us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In Memory of Radio
by Amiri Baraka LeRoi Jones
Who has ever stopped to think of the
divinity of Lamont Cranston?
(Only Jack Kerouac, that I know of: &
me.
The rest of you probably had on WCBS and Kate
Smith,
Or something equally unattractive.)
What can I say?
It is better to have loved and lost
Than to put linoleum in your living rooms?
Am I a sage or something?
Mandrake's hypnotic gesture of the week?
(Remember, I do not have the healing
powers of Oral Roberts . . .
I cannot, like F. J. Sheen, tell you how
to get saved & rich!
I cannot even order you to gaschamber
satori like Hitler or Goody Knight
& Love is an evil word.
Turn it backwards/see, what I mean?
An evol word. & besides
Who understands it?
I certainly wouldn't like to go out on
that kind of limb.
Saturday mornings we listened to Red
Lantern & his undersea folk.
At 11, Let's Pretend/& we did/& I,
the poet, still do, Thank God!
What was it he used to say (after the
transformation, when he was safe
& invisible & the unbelievers
couldn't throw stones?) "Heh, heh, heh,
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of
men? The Shadow knows."
O, yes he does
O, yes he does.
An evil word it is,
This Love.
-----------------------
all have a nice
sunday,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
1961:in memory of radio.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>RiNaLdO:
>thank you so
much for the pome transcribed.
>i havent
thought of that pome in years.
>especially
the lines:
> What can I
say?
> It
is better to have loved and lost
> Than to put linoleum in your living rooms?
>*****
>my answer is
a big YES!!!!! and that living rooms are often obtained and
>lost. hard to
hug linoleum, eh?
>i remember my
lost loves much more poignantly than my lost livingrooms.
>hoping you
have a nice sunday, too
>thanks
>marie c.
>
marie, U aRe My
SyStEr iN cYbErSpAcE.
yr cyberbrother
RiNaLdO
looks at the
past,
be patient,
despite all,
my infancy was
beautiful
& now i remember those spleen lost days.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
narcotics are not required.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:09:50 -0500
From: Vilija Gulbinas
<Mabrack@AOL.COM> vilija wrote:
>>>>
[snip]
was drug use the
basis for the entire beat generation?* ...since i'm just a doll, 17 yrs, i have
no ties to the original beats; however, i would like to become a part of a
newly resurrected beat generation that does not revolve around the use of
narcotics..
is this
possible...
please respond,
vilija<<<<<
rInAlDo replays,
first *aPoLoGiZe
not to noticed previous, yr post*:
the question is
incredible deep,
thru yr derrick post, u are pumping
black oil from my/our subterranean
soul,
to the sunshine,
thirty years ago,
& myself 17 old.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: AG,
minimum fax.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
in italy is out
(about one a
week, but this interview is dated 1967) a new booklet-interview:
Intervista con
Allen Ginsberg
di Thomas Clark
Allen Ginsberg
(c) Paris Review,Inc.,
1967
(c) Viking Penguin, N
Y, 1967
(c) Edizioni minum fax,
1996
interesting the
introduction by Emanuele Bevilacqua, here some selected piece (my translation
& selection):
--- * start * ---
Today to the age
of seventy years, AG is the brokerage of many experiences- that Buddhist
doesn't complete- to which he does reference in the many trips to which he is
lent.
Maybe it is by
now limitative consider it only most known representative of the mythical
"beat generation".
It is same AG
that doesn't understand renounce an image beat, it otherwise could be
considered that this definition doesn't suffice more to contain a complex
individuality, an artist from the poetic aggregate and recognizable.
Poet from America
more that beat.
But the poet from
America is that he has worked in these forty years for beatify his generation.
And the operation has succeeded him well beyond the its objective. From rebel
in sandals and uncultivated beard to radical-chic that he knows how to protest
civilly in the good living room. This seems a beat today.
The radiances of
the beat generation is distant, as distant as the brothers of a time. Kerouac
and Cassady stopped from the life at the end of the years Sixty, the others,
bar maybe Gary Snyder, jammed creatively in the same period. Gregory Corso, the great Corso, missing in a
light folly that he doesn't consent not even of get the minimum for the
survival, if there is not AG to help it.
Corso, the poet
of "Bomb," hymn against the wars, but also to the irony, to the
grimace.
Alone AG has
continued to cause poetry up to Cosmpolitan Greetings (1994) that has been
translated also in Italy, an event because AG was not translated in Italy for
fifteen years, he picks up moments of his life and he is closed with two
images, his tomb empty anchor and a bodiless divity that tell: the immortality
arrives later.
--- *
---
below the
original text written by Emanuele Bevilacqua:
Oggi alla età di
settanta anni, AG è la mediazione di molte esperienze - non ultima quella buddista - alle quali egli fa
riferimento nei molti viaggi a cui si presta. Forse è ormai limitativo
considerarlo soltanto il più conosciuto rappresentante della mitica BG.
è AG stesso che
non intende rinunciare a una immagine beat, altrimenti si potrebbe considerare
che questa definizione non basta più a contenere una personalità complessa, un
artista dalla poetica globale e riconoscibile. Poeta della America semmai più
che beat.
Tuttavia è il
poeta della America che ha lavorato in questi quaranta anni per beatificare la
sua generazione. E la operazione gli è riuscita ben oltre i suoi obiettivi. Da
ribelle in sandali e barba incolta a radical-chic che sa protestare
educatamente nei salotti buoni. Questo sembra oggi un beat.
I fulgori della
beat generation sono lontani, così lontani come i fratelli di un tempo. Kerouac
e Cassady fermati dalla vita alla fine degli anni Sessanta, gli altri, tranne
forse Gary Snyder, bloccati creativamente nello stesso periodo. Gregory Corso,
il grande Corso, perso in una leggera follia che non gli consente nemmeno di
procurarsi il minimo per la sopravvivenza, se non ci fosse AG ad aiutarlo.
Corso, il poeta di "Bomba", inno contro le guerre, ma anche alla
ironia, allo sberleffo.
Solo AG ha
continuato a produrre poesia fino a Cosmpolitan Greetings (1994) che è stato
tradotto anche in Italia, un evento perchè AG non si traduceva in Italia da
quindici anni, raccoglie momenti della sua vita e si chiude con due immagini,
la sua tomba ancora vuota e una dività incorporea che avvisa: l'immortalità
arriva più tardi.
thanx to
(c) Edizioni minum fax,
1996
via della Farnesina, 13
- 00194 Roma, Italy.
tel
06.3336545/3336553-fax 06.3336385
--- * end * ---
yrs
rinaldo. To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Nibbaana
The Final Goal.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
\Kerouac\ Canto XXXIV \Sant'Orsola\
So in America when the sun goes down
and I sit on the old broken-down
river pier
watching the long, long skies,
Nel mezzo del
cammin di nostra vita
mi ritrovai per una selva oscura,
over New Jersey e avverto tutta quella
terra nuda,
che si svolge in one unbelievable huge bulge
over the West Coast,
by now the
children stanno certo piangendo nella terra
where they let the children cry,
and tonight the
stars'll be out, and don't you know
that God id Pooh Bear?
e quindi uscimmo
a riveder le stelle.
-----------------
summer/fall 1981,
in memory of B.
yrs rinaldo * a
poet doesn't ever copy *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Burroughs t-shirts
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Ginny Browne
wrote:
>>>and
everone's OKAY with this?
:) grazie
[snipped]<<<
ma come?,
qualcuno scrive in italiano: grazie!
i have read about WSB mex-incident, se non
sbaglio, in a Bukowsky book, or poems,
& for him seems that were not a good
point to excuse WSB, i noticed that WSB after
varied times photographed with rifle in hands, a dark aura around him.
here in italy, the WSB myth is not relevant,
(for me except the homage as copyrighted
Blade Runner, that's tha fact i
appreciate), but he is a literature presence in some fanzine ultra-violence, & i presume that
the image of writer is not exactly,
what?, eg. the paperback edition of
creative writing is deep BLACK, & the entire collections as, ya this maybe a marketing target... WSB
was/is a rich man & then...
t-shirts, everytime i read about WSB i
forced me to not touch the keyboard but i can't... why?
cari saluti a
tutti,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Nibbaana The Final Goal.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Thanks,
>you just
uncovered a hidden Trinity:
>God / id /
Pooh Bear
>
>adios,
>Eric
Eric,
mi sono accorto
troppo tardi, too late, apologies, chiedo perdono dell'errore, my imperceptible
mistake, thnx for noticed it,
cari saluti,
yrs rinaldo. *
not a competent beat *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: OTR
for kids
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
in brief,
if could K12 read
SK
'cuz could not
he/she read OTR?
yrs rinaldo * .
*To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Burroughs t-shirts
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>I have a book
that was shot by Hunter Thompson, why not a t-shirt by Burroughs?
>
>DB
>
>
My GoD!My GoD!My
GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My
GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My
GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My
GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!My
GoD!My GoD!My GoD!
My GoD!My GoD!
yrs RiNaLdO.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
PoohBearism
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Ginny Browne
wrote:
>um.....my
essential inquiry lies in the "god is poohbear" line (OTR)- i been
>racking my
mind about it since i finished the damn book....
>............
>please --any
comments????
>
>
dear
friends&ginny,
take it for
granted that OTR has a Buddhist background, & it's the most important look
of the book, in my opinion, as myself a reader
of Upanisad i
think that Brahma is know as one is known ________.__
not like the
creator of the world but like that one that brooding the world and he/she does
then bear with the heat.
now Pooh Bear is
God ( ya God is Pooh Bear ) really 'cuz the heat wake up the bear from his lethargy
and the bear causes is warm, affectionate & chatty, in this meaning Pooh
Bear is really GOD, then world & god is god & world...
more later about
Jack Kerouac & Dante Alighieri about Pooh Bear, if beat lister can help me
about the JK knowledge of italian writers classics as Dante or others i must
appreciate, do you know if in the library of JK there was works of italian
authors?
nice friday for
all,
yrs rinaldo * we
are deadly divinity *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Is Pooh
Bear a Star ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
you put me in
GrEaT semantic translation embarrassment, Pooh Bear is it in anglo-american
also the constellation of the Great Bear, or i'm completely out of Jack Kerouac
OTR understanding, don't to mention astronomic, literary & others important
things of the LiFe?
in italy the last
star of the Great Bear (Pooh Bear if it is ) is that the young boyfriends choose
for express a desire, also mentioned in classic italian romantic poems,
is it as easy be
twenty years old,
don't you see
that God is Pooh Bear?
as quoted at the
end of On The Road?
nice day to all,
yrs RiNaLdO * nOw
A bIt CoNfUsEd *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ONLY A
BIT Re: Is Pooh Bear a Star ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 11.32 27/02/97
-0700, you wrote:
>rinalDO
>for yr
clarification :
>Pooh bear is
the (other) name for A.A.Milne's Winnie the Pooh star of such
>children's
books as _House on Pooh corner_, _now we are 6_ and others
>(including
walt
>disney
cartoons and a series of canadian postage stamps).
>does this
help?
>derek
>
>
thanx derek,
first of all nice day to u&all,
BUT my question
is, in brief, & i pray u tu gimme a binary (y/n) feedback, (the response is
VERY important),
then Pooh Bear is
an astronomic physics entity as the constellation of the Great Bear in the real
sky ( yes or no ) ?
check here [ y
] ...
[ n ] ...
answer,
please,..... only one bit for me, derek, please, thanx a lot,
yrs RiNaLdO *
quiet a BiT conFUSED *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
PoohBearism
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 14.04 27/02/97
-0500, you wrote:
>rinaldo....
>um, yes, ok.
i see what you're saying about Pooh and heat/warmth- i think i
>get your
meaning tho i kinda lost you in your allusion to Brahma. i'll see
>what i can
find out about JK and Dante, i shall see....
>grazie e
molto buon giorno, ginny. (did i say that right? can i put a "molto"
>in front of
"buon giorno"?)maybe we can lind kerouac and dante in this way:
>
> "Nel mezzo del cammin' di nostra
vita,
> mi accorgio che Dio e
Poohbear...."
>(LOL at my
true wit...)
>
>
ginny,
buon giorno
(without "molto"), buon giorno is enough here in venice,italy, (if u
are exorbitant u can say "buongiornissimo" like a superlative but
unused, a little joke),
it is wonderful,
& i like a lot, reading yr italian HERE in this cyberspacenglish, & in
first here in the Beat-List i appreciate.
yr question about
Pooh Bear ( as a bear/star ) is, for me very interesting, & yr question
about Dante & don't forget Sant'Orsola (Orsola=Ursula, then in italian
bear=orso), but i must receive some input like the precise translation of Pooh
Bear, & if JK understood italian or read italian classics like Dante, et
cetera.
about Brahma
& the Pooh Bear is a flashing think toward the Upanishad & the empty
dream of the universe of JK, OTR start with a recovery after an illness and he
finishes with a look to the starlight sky, a re-birth&birth&birth
"Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra
vita
mi accorgo che Pooh Bear e' Dio"
nice day to ginny
& all,
ginny write
italian...
yrs RiNaLdO
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: ONLY
A BIT Re: Is Pooh Bear a Star ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
derek
>rinaldo
>>
>> then
Pooh Bear is an astronomic physics entity as the
>>
constellation of the Great Bear in the real sky ( yes or no ) ?
>>
>>
>> check
here [ y ] ...
>> [ n ] ...N
>>
>derek
>
now it starts a
problem in the way OTR translated in italian i have read for a long time... i
must thought a while,
more later,
thanx a lot,
grazie tante,
yrs RiNaLdO To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
PoohBearism
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>grazie grazie
grazie e viva marcello..... :)
>caramente,
ginevra (ginny)
>
ginevra(ginny),
marcello IS the
italian guy, remember "I soliti Ignoti", u take a look at this movie
IT IS A GREAT story (neo-realism), cari saluti da
rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Is
Pooh Bear a Star ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Is Pooh an
elf?
>
i believe no,
thanx for yr
help, but, i presume donot has make a mistyped of something, if this is the case
i apologies with the whole beat-list,
nice day to all,
rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Re[2]: ONLY A BIT Re: Is Pooh Bear a Star ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Rodgers wrote:
> [ n ]
>
>
>_______ron_______________________
Reply Separator
>_________________________________
then, if Pooh
Bear is not a star in the sky &/or Pooh Bear=winnie-the-pooh, u have
considered the presence of the sky in the end of OTR: what's the connection
assuming Pooh Bear (only) as winnie.
has somebody look
at Pooh Bear IS A STAR?
thanks for yr
response 2 for winnie and 1(myself) for star,
nice day to all
& happy saturday,
yrs rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the beat
poets (i poeti "beat").
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
at first nice
saturday,
then from italy,
the novelties is the hit of the books belong the collection Miti of the poetry:
"Beat Generation-67 poesie", a choice of unpublished texts of the
more greater exponents of the
cultural &
generational & literary
movement,
***********************************************************
the italian bestsellers books:
1)Patricia Cornwell, "La fabbrica
dei corpi",
2)Primo Levi,"La tregua",
3)Susanna Tamaro, "Va' dove ti
porta il cuore",
------------------------------
4) BEAT
GENERATION - 67 POESIE
the feelings
& the reflections
of a period &
of a generation,
by the poetries
of his heroes,
on the wonderful
cover a gasoline pump in the 50s, the sky to the sundown or to the dawn,
behind, ...
"Were't not
for cities or prisons O tower I might yet be that
verdure monk lulling over green country
albums with no
greater dream than my youth's
dream" ...
fragment from ODE
TO COIT TOWER
by Gregory Corso.
------------------------------
5) Neruda, "Poesie d'amore",
6) Daniel Pennac, "Ultime notizie
dalla famiglia".
**********************************************************
yrs rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Mastroianni&Gassman.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
ginny:
>dolce
rinaldo....
>"I
Soliti Ignoti" ? who directed this? i assume its not fellini.
>si, Marcello
e` meraviglioso......e` un santo.
>ciao, ginny
>(again-
apologies to everyone
>who is mad at
me for once again
>straying off
topic...)
>
at the moment, ya
not Federico Fellini, this film "I soliti ignoti" is a classic of the
b-movie (a cult movie if u prefer, later for the name of the director), most
interesing the cast now:
1) Marcello
Mastroianni,
2) Toto',
3) Vittorio
Gassman,
& others
funny guys. the story is about a bunch of beats guy in the italy 50s, after the
IIWW, filmed in black&white of course.
Vittorio Gassman,
the great italian performer is a beat & his target poet is Lawrence
Ferlighetti, he reads broadcasting the Coney Islands poetries, in his
ironic& ieratic fashion, a must! Vittorio Gassman is know as fascinating
reader of poetry beat, i remember, that his face is like Ferlinghetti, the
beard&body, now Marcello, at first he was with Michelangelo Antonioni,
"Deserto Rosso", & others movie, then with Fellini, in his late
film he featured a cechov character in the film "Oci ciornia",
traslated as "Black eyes", that is representative of a cultural
decadence of the society in the mening of antonioni's early films but with a
bit of irony,
Toto' is an actor
& worked with Pier Paolo Pasolini,
ora ti saluto,
e auguro a te e a
tutti gli amici beat
un buon sabato e
felice domenica,
ciao,
il vostro
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Re[2]: ONLY A BIT Re: Is Pooh Bear a Star ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
antoine wrote:
>rinaldo,
>
> Having just about had it with the Pooh
Bear thread, I must say that
>your
suggestion that maybe Jack DID mean a star is a refreshing take on it;
>certainly
beats the A.A.Milne slant!
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
>"The sky
turned black and bruised, and we had months of heavy rain."
> - Tom Waits
>
>
thanx a loto for
that u appreciate my post, i apologies if my fixed idea about Pooh Bear is
disturbing the beats but IT IS an important point,
consider that OTR
is NOT only an english poetry&wonderful book but IT IS an estate for the
world,
then i assume
that POETRY it is possible translate & i'm collected the meaning of JK
writings in other language or culture, (not to mention how we must get OTR
& BEATS for the real Kids that eg. are reading Trainspotting of his
target?),
now i'm in touch
with this Pooh Bear/Great Bear/Milky Way thread 'cuz is really important,
but except some
exception i note that the italian presence in the b-list is minority, however i
appreciate if eg. a german or french or spanish or ebonic translation of the
end of OTR starting at "So in
America when the sun... ...we never found, I think of Dean Moriarty." in
fact i match each to each & got an idea what's really OTR for the
"universal" reader, not only for english literature or literate,
antoine, i hope u & others friend are understiding my efforts to complete
the Kerouac as a man in the planet, in the sky, & in everywhere, be patient
friends,
yrs rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
PoohBearism/OTR for Kids/Dylan Thomas
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Robert H. Sapp:
>perhaps we
could incorporate the elves into this scenerio
please,
you take and
looking at "Early in the morning" by Dylan Thomas where Little Tim
couldn't be incorporated as a character of james-joyce-finnegan-Ulysses-story,
nice sunday to
all,
yrs RiNaLdO.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Dylan
Thomas, a poetry.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
THE MIDNIGHT ROAD by Dylan Thomas (1932)
The midnight road, though young men
tread unknowing,
Harbouring some thought of heaven, or
haven hoping,
Yelds peace and plenty at the end. Or
is it peace,
This busy jarring on the nerves yet no
outbreak?
And this is plenty, then, cloves and
sweet oils, the bees' honey,
Enough kind food, enough kind speaking,
A film of people moving,
Their hands outstretched, to give and
give?
And now behind the screen are vixen
voices,
The midnight figures of sulphurous
brood
Stepping in nightmare on a nightmare's
edges.
Above them poise the swollen clouds
That wait for breaking and that never
break,
The living sky, the faces of the stars.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: NO
Neo-Nazis on Usenet!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create (again) a usenet group where they
want to keep in contact with each other regarding their activities. I believe
it is not necessary to dwell further on these activities.
The group is
rec.music.white-power
To create such a
group, they have to win a referendum that is always organised when a new usenet
group is created.
All persons with
an email address, and only those, can vote in this referendum.
It is IMPORTANT
to vote only once, otherwise the vote is cancelled.
To prevent the
creation of this group, you have to: 1. Send this message to people you know 2.
Send an email to the following address:
music-vote@sub-rosa.com
with as contents (not 'subject') ONLY the
following line:
I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
Since the vote is
automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the exact line as it is given above, without
adding anything, not even a name.
And please send
it only once or it becomes invalid !
-------------------------------------------------------------------
thank you for any help could give,
against the
violence & the inhumanity,
at the end of
this century,
yrs rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Who?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
TV Zone
smoking a sigarette,
from the black & white
to the colors,
man,
who is the man
that does he read
man by Jack Kerouac?
man!
a day,
on sunday,
yrs Rinaldo * a
not competent beat *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Fellini
as a beat? Re: The French New Wave
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
John Mitchell
wrote:
>Even more
striking in Beat situation, mood, and resemblance is Federico
>Fellini's I
Vitelloni (The Loafers)--1953, but maybe Rinaldo has already
>mentioned
this.//John Mitchell
>
>>Speaking
of the French Nouvelle vague....Any possibility of the Beat
>>Literary
movement influencing French Filmmakers like Godard? I see
>>many
similarities between Breathless and On the Road//Dean Moriarity and
>>Michel
Poiccard...When was On the Road first published in France?
>>
>>
>>Dawn
>
thanx John for yr
interest about italian Beat, (i'm always searching for), well, Fellini as a
beat is an hazard, 'cuz he analised in primis the country town spleen versus
the Big City, e.g.
"I
vitelloni"/"La dolce Vita" (& more near to us
"Amarcord"/"Roma").
Fellini sketchs
italian nostalgia & shows the angel/idiot characters of the italian persons
(in his first film "La strada",( "The road") where the
angel is Gelsomina [Giulietta Masina] & the idiot (not the evil) is
Zampano' [Anthony Quinn]).
but starting with
"I vitelloni" Fellini focused on absolutely impossible escape from
the MOTHER, no one can getting away from HER.
this is the
Fellini's message, in my opinion, & at the end a bit disappointing.
more close to
Beat/French New Wave is "Il sorpasso" (1962) [Vittorio Gassman,
Catherine Spaak,Jean Louis Trintignant"] directed by Dino Risi,
a crazy car race
from Rome to Genoa of an angel(Trintignant) & an idiot (Gassman) & the
death as the target, ( a' la Breathless, in this respect).
in Italy "On
the Road" (translated by Fernanda Pivano as "Sulla Strada") was
first published in february 1959,
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: MAN
broadcasted.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
hi, america!,
i saw a singer
"reading" the Jack Kerouac poetry MAN, it's a video broadcasted by the domestic italian channel,
wonderful
american (smoked) images, trade centers, cadillacs & lost dogs & green
roads,
like wim wenders
once photos,
can, pliz, anyone
tell me the name of the performer (Tom Waits?)?
a lotof thanx in
advance,
yrs
Rinaldo * See Sea
*
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: MAN
broadcasted.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 08.30 12/03/97
-0800, Chas. you wrote :
>BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
wrote:
>>
>> hi,
america!,
>>
>> i saw a
singer "reading" the Jack Kerouac poetry MAN,
>
>Could it be
Mark Murphy, who reads Kerouac almost as good as the source?
>I bet.
>
>Chas.
>
>
thanx for thy
suggestion,
below my memory
of Jack Kerouac broadcasted poetry:
...
America I did you all
now I'm nothing
MAN
everything is perfect
...
here i lost the
performer, but i take
an italian
translation of some verses,
America ti ho dato tutto
e ora sono nulla
UOMO
Ogni cosa e' perfetta
non sta' nemmeno accadendo
UOMO
Si alzo' e si vesti'
e usci' & fu licenziato
poi mori' e fu sepolto
in una bara nella fossa
UOMO
this match Mark
Murphy ?
who directed the
video ?
a lotof thanx for
yr help,
yrs
Rinaldo. * See
Sea *
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: YOU'VE
BEEN DUPED: No Neo-Nazis on Usenet! (fwd)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear beats,
friends,
pliz, i must
ethically post this forward as a week ago i posted on this subject...
many thanks,
yrs Rinaldo.
<<I'm just
hoping that this rumor can be stemmed before it goes flying around the Internet
again and crashing the sub-rosa.com mail server.
Mike
Pelletier.>>
>Return-Path:
<@gumncc.terena.nl:owner-phils-vu@NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>Posted-Date:
Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:59:10 -0500 (EST)
>Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:59:09 -0500
>Reply-To: Discussions on Philosophical Bases of
Managing the Information
> Society
<PHILS-VU@NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>Sender: Discussions on Philosophical Bases of
Managing the Information
> Society <PHILS-VU@NIC.SURFNET.NL>
>From: Mike Pelletier
<mikep@COMSHARE.COM>
>Subject: YOU'VE BEEN DUPED: No Neo-Nazis on
Usenet! (fwd)
>X-To: David_Abramson@compuserve.com,
alampear@juno.com,
> 75450.2635@compuserve.com,
76145.664@compuserve.com,
> ronsussman@aol.com,
aera-c@asuvm.inre.asu.edu,
> aera-d@asuvm.inre.asu.edu,
bioregional@csf.colorado.edu,
> iag@deliberate.com,
K12ASSESS-L@cusrva.cua.edu,
> online-europe@isys.hu, singlewinner@deliberate.com
>To: PHILS-VU@NIC.SURFNET.NL
>
>PLEASE,
BEFORE YOU SEND OUT ANOTHER COPY OF THE MESSAGE, READ THE
>FOLLOWING,
and forward it to the same people to whom you forwarded the
>previous
message.
>
>The vote for
"rec.music.white-power" FAILED on June 3, _1996_, almost NINE
>MONTHS ago,
with 592 "yes" votes and
33,033 "no" votes. There was a
>storm of
messages sent around the Internet just like the one listed below
>to elicit the
unprecidented number of "no" votes for this group. What
>appears to
have happened here is someone found a copy of such a message
>sitting in an
old file and took it for a new attempt, which it is most
>certainly
NOT.
>
>Please DO NOT
send any e-mail to music-vote@sub-rosa.com, it simply is a
>nuisance and
a burden on their e-mail system, and will not be happily
>recieved by
them.
>
>According to
the documents in
><ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/Current_Status>,
which
>lists the
status of ongoing newsgroup votes and discussions, the only
>music groups
that have been suggested over the last six months are
>"rec.music.makers.hand-drum,"
"rec.music.artists.bush," and
>"rec.music.artists.bodeans."
>
>The word
"(again)" in the English version does not appear in the French
>version, and
was added by someone who was jumping to conclusions without
>checking the
facts.
>
>And finally,
I would ask that you consider your motives for your
>knee-jerk,
no-vote reaction to this proposal. The
vote last year seemed
>to be thought
by many to be a referendum on whether or not the Neo-Nazis
>would be
permitted to be on Usenet, when in fact it's nothing of the sort.
>
>They are
already out there, using myriad other newsgroups, and there's no
>way to
prevent them from being there. Instead
of discussing white-power
>music on a
separate newsgroup away from people who are not interested in
>it, they're
discussing it in rec.music.jazz, or
>rec.music.artists.alanis-morisette,
or what have you. And there's nothing
>you, I, or
anyone can do about that except rail impotently against it, if
>one is so
inclined.
>
>And if you're
inclined to rail against it, consider the following. I know
>that some of
you are non-Orthodox Jews. Suppose we
all wanted to create a
>newsgroup
called soc.culture.jewish.non-orthodox, and Orthodox Jews from
>around the
world sent out a rallying cry to vote against the newsgroup
>because
"non-Orthodox Jews aren't Jewish so they shouldn't be allowed on
>Usenet,"
and it was defeated by a huge margin. This is not a far-fetched
>scenario --
in Italy the Orthodox rabbinate has declared non-Orthodox
>congregations
to not be Jewish.
>
>Would you
find the defeat of this newsgroup to be acceptable? Just?
>Fair?
>
>"No,"
you say, "but we're talking about *NEO-NAZIS* here!" So what?
Do
>you actually
think that the crushing defeat of rec.music.white-power
>changed a
single Neo-Nazi's mind about their outlook on life? Do you
>think it made
them anything but more cynical about non-whites and Jews?
>Stalin made
vain attempts to silence his opposition too.
>
>And that's
all this vote was last year: a VAIN, pointless, impotent
>attempt to
silence the lying, reprehensible voice of neo-Naziism. Gags do
>not change
hearts, and hearts are what we all must work to change.
>
>Think on
that.
>
> -Mike Pelletier.
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a priest
can... any person can...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Jeff Taylor wrote
once:
>>[some
lines i snipped]...<<
>>(&
can a priest give extreme
unction to
himself?). I guess this is the extent of the ambiguity--not really terribly
convincing, I admit.<<
Jeff & other
who are still interested,
yes a catholic
priest can give extreme unction to himself.
not only a priest
could give the extreme unction to an other catholic but also an any person in
cases of emergency could do it to himself or to others.
the same could be
told for the baptism, in cases of emergency also a Catholic 'thout be a priest
he could baptize any person.
this theological
practice seems me much beat!
yrs Rinaldo * See
Sea *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: A poem
by LOIS SORRELLS.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Blue as a little girl on Sunday
afternoon
no homework done
Tomorrow's school.
Fall chill
Football on the radio
Dying sun getting closer to tomorrow
School again
No homework done and baby blue.
good day,
yrs Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Johnny
Depp's performance of Chorus 113 MCB by JK was Re:MAN brodcasted.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Many thanks to
Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca> for this hint 'bout Re: MAN
broadcasted: Adrien wrote:
<<I think
you're talking about Johnny Depp's performance of Chorus 113 from MexCity
Blues, which is from The United States of Poetry series.>>
the above quote
solve my problem, 'bout a trouble that involved my knowledge of Jack Kerouac
works,
TRUE!, nice, .was
file, thanx again,
yrs Rinaldo. To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Freedom
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:14:52 -0800
>Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
>From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
>Subject: Re: Freedom
>
>Robert H.
Sapp wrote:
>>
>> While
reading my pocket edition of the Declaration of Independence, I
>> noticed
how much it reminded me of Howl, in both structure and content.
>> At
first, I was startled by this, but then I realized that this was
>> natural
tradition source flow. . . .
>> For
example:
>> He has plundered our Seas, ravaged our
Coasts, burnt our Towns,
>> and
destroyed the Lives of our People.
>> He is, at this Time, transporting
large Armies of foreign
>>
Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny,
>> already
begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely
>>
paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a
>>
civilized Nation.
>
>Robert--
>
>I like this
observation. I think it shows how really
fundamentally
>"American"
this poem is . . .although I suspect that if I wanted to take
>the time to
dig out my King James Bible I could also show where the
>source of
Jefferson's style in these sections is also rooted in the Old
>Testament
prophets.
>
>J Stauffer
>
>
friends,
The bum,
knows well that all the masters,
from San Francesco to Buddha,
whose silent presence echoes,
put always to the center of
their message the creep,
the pilgrimage. Recommending to the
their disciples, literally the
Way.
And for
set along the WAY,
it is not necessary go in
Patagonia
or in the forests.
Certain times suffice the
courtyard of house.
yrs
Rinaldo.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Freedom
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:15:50 -0600
>From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Subject: Re: Freedom
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
>> >
>>
>Robert H. Sapp wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
While reading my pocket edition of the Declaration of Independence, I
>> >>
noticed how much it reminded me of Howl, in both structure and content.
>> >>
At first, I was startled by this, but then I realized that this was
>> >>
natural tradition source flow. . . .
>> >>
For example:
>>
>> He has plundered our
Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns,
>> >>
and destroyed the Lives of our People.
>>
>> He is, at this Time,
transporting large Armies of foreign
>> >>
Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny,
>> >>
already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely
>> >>
paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a
>> >>
civilized Nation.
>> >
>>
>Robert--
>> >
>> >I
like this observation. I think it shows
how really fundamentally
>>
>"American" this poem is . . .although I suspect that if I wanted
to take
>> >the
time to dig out my King James Bible I could also show where the
>>
>source of Jefferson's style in these sections is also rooted in the Old
>>
>Testament prophets.
>> >
>> >J
Stauffer
>> >
>> >
>>
>> friends,
>> The bum,
>> knows well that all the masters,
>> from San Francesco to Buddha,
>> whose silent presence echoes,
>> put always to the center of
their message the creep,
>> the pilgrimage. Recommending to the
>> their disciples, literally the
Way.
>> And for set along the WAY,
>> it is not necessary go in
Patagonia
>> or in the forests.
>> Certain times suffice the
courtyard of house.
>>
>> yrs
>> Rinaldo.i like that...certain
times suffice the studio of a
> nike
commercial as
>well...
>dbr
dbr
...well
IF IT SHOULD EVER COME by Edward Dorn
And we are all there together
time will wave as willows do
and adios will be truly, yes,
laughing at what is forgotten
and talking of what's new
admiring the roses you brought.
How sad.
You didn't know you were at the end
thought it was your bright pear
the earth, yes
another affair to have been kept
and gazed back on
when you had slept
to have been stored
as a squirrel will a nut, and half
forgotten,
there were so many, many
from newly fallen.
dear dbr,
those '50th &
'60th times won't return more, we know that those times won't return,
but
we
know
that
our
beauty
will
always
be FREEDOM.
don't think twice
it's alright...
ciao a tutti,
dall'Italia,
yrs
Rinaldo * a not
competent beat *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Freedom
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
david wrote:
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>>
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997
10:15:50 -0600
>>
>From: RACE ---
<race@MIDUSA.NET>
>>
>Subject: Re: Freedom
>>
>Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>> >>
>From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>Robert H. Sapp wrote:
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>> While reading my pocket edition of the Declaration of Independence, I
>> >>
>> noticed how much it reminded me of Howl, in both structure and
content.
>> >>
>> At first, I was startled by this, but then I realized that this was
>> >>
>> natural tradition source flow. . . .
>> >>
>> For example:
>> >>
>> He has plundered our
Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns,
>> >>
>> and destroyed the Lives of our People.
>> >>
>> He is, at this Time,
transporting large Armies of foreign
>> >>
>> Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny,
>> >>
>> already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely
>> >>
>> paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head
of
> a
>> >>
>> civilized Nation.
>> >>
>
>> >>
>Robert--
>> >>
>
>> >>
>I like this observation. I think it
shows how really fundamentally
>> >>
>"American" this poem is . . .although I suspect that if I wanted
to take
>> >>
>the time to dig out my King James Bible I could also show where the
>> >>
>source of Jefferson's style in these sections is also rooted in the Old
>> >>
>Testament prophets.
>> >>
>
>> >>
>J Stauffer
>> >>
>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>>
>> friends,
>>
>> The bum,
>>
>> knows well that all the
masters,
>>
>> from San
Francesco to Buddha,
>>
>> whose silent presence echoes,
>>
>> put always to
the center of their message the creep,
>>
>> the pilgrimage.
Recommending to the
>>
>> their disciples,
literally the Way.
>>
>> And for set along the WAY,
>>
>> it is not
necessary go in Patagonia
>>
>> or in the forests.
>>
>> Certain times
suffice the courtyard of house.
>> >>
>>
>> yrs
>>
>> Rinaldo.i like
that...certain times suffice the studio of a
>> >
nike commercial as
>>
>well...
>> >dbr
>> dbr
>> ...well
>>
>> IF IT SHOULD EVER COME by Edward Dorn
>>
>> And we are all there together
>> time will wave as willows do
>> and adios will be truly, yes,
>>
>> laughing at what is forgotten
>> and talking of what's new
>> admiring the roses you brought.
>> How sad.
>>
>> You didn't know you were at the end
>> thought it was your bright pear
>> the earth, yes
>>
>> another affair to have been kept
>> and gazed back on
>> when you had slept
>> to have been stored
>> as a squirrel will a nut, and half
>> forgotten,
>> there were so many, many
>> from newly fallen.
>>
>> dear
dbr,
>> those
'50th & '60th times won't return more,
>> we know
that those times won't return,
>> but
>> we
>> know
>> that
>> our
beauty
>> will
>> always
be FREEDOM.
>>
>> don't
think twice it's alright...
>> ciao a
tutti, dall'Italia,
>> yrs
>> Rinaldo
* a not competent beat *
>
>i'm too young
to claim any part of such periods (50s-60s) only vague memories of
> vietnam
>on tv news
during childhood but remember i preferred johnny quest for some
> reason.
>
>probably
sheltered from the beauty you describe from culture which feared the
> beauty
>would
illuminate its ugliness.
>
>but, from
what I sense, it seems the FREEDOM and beauty you describe are eternal
>experiences
that are always with one and not constrained by the passage of time.
>
>I've had a
few such timeless moments of experiencing true FREEDOM...hardest part
> is
>realizing
those moments are always with me.
>
>don't think
twice -- used to be my anthem of sorts...took it fairly
>
literally...didn't
>fit the
dominant reflective perspective running through gradschools and
> whatnot...
>
>take care,
>david
>
SONG AT 24
time
has eaten my
innocence like a pistachio nut love has walked off with my trust...
many thanks for
yr gentle considerations
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Freedom
/ ED SANDERS / For Marilyn Monroe, August 5, 1962.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends, good
early afternoon to all,
here in Venice is
evening... & full spring moon.
in brief a
question:
it's true that
former beat were involved & good feeling in Marilyn Monroe tragic life as
symbol of the american freedom, or the american way of life, or any other
"beat" reason, as 'cuz things gone as gone?
vostro
Rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Dedicated To Marie Countryman.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
FOR OUR SYSTER
MARIE
NOW
S P R I N G '97
VANA by Ezra Pound from A lume spento [1908]
In vain have I
striven
to teach my heart
to bow;
In vain have I
said to him,
''There be many
singers greater than thou.''
But his answer
cometh, as winds and as lutany, As a vague crying upon the night
That leaveth me
no rest, saying ever,
''Song, a song.''
Their echoes play
upon each other in the twilight Seeking ever a song.
Lo, I am worn
with travail
And the wandering
of many roads hath made my eyes As dark red circles filled with dust.
Yet there is a
trembling upon me in the twilight,
And little red elf words crying ''A song'',
Little grey elf words crying for a song,
Little brown leaf words crying ''A song'',
Little green leaf words crying for a song.
The words are as leaves,
old brown leaves in the spring time, Blowing they know not whiter, seeking a
song.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: James
Mallahan Cain.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
while I walked a
thought it has jumped on, an image from a Cain's book, maybe ''Serenade''?
...the guard beat
the hobos that grabbed on to the wagons and they fell down like the grubs from
a stick...
great deep '39
writer,
yrs Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Brood.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
*
i'm
out
of
track!
BUT "The
Brood" directed by David Cronenberg is real FEAR, (outstanding every
nakedL u think 'bout), &no lit included,
yrs
rinaldo.
*To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Freedom
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
LIBRO DI TESTO INTRODUTTIVO by
Ezra Pound
(In quattro capitoli)
I
"Tutte le
perplessita', la confusione, la miseria nell'America sorgono, non dai difetti
della Costituzione o confederazione; ne' dalla mancanza di onore e di virtu',
quanto da un'assoluta ignoranza della natura del denaro, del credito, e della
loro circolazione."
John
Adams
II
"...e se le
cambiali della nazione fossero basate (com'e' indispensabile) su pegni di
imposte per ripagarle dentro un tempo moderato e determinato, e se fossero di
nominativi comodi alla circolazione, nessun interesse su esse sarebbe
necessario ne' giusto, perche' esse rsponderebbero ad ognuno degli scopi
serviti dalla moneta metallica ritirata e rimpiazzata dalle medesime
[cambiali]."
Thomas
Jefferson
(Lettera a Crawford,
a.D. 1816)
III
"Il
Congresso avra' il potere:
Di batter moneta,
regolarne il valore e il valore delle monete estere, e di determinare i talloni
dei pesi e delle misure."
Costituzione degli S.U.A. Art. 1.
Legislatura.
Sezione 8. p.5.
Nella conversione
e col consenso unanime degli Stati, 7 sett. 1787, e dell'Indipendenza degli
S.U. XII.
Per attestare
questo abbiamo messo i nostri nomi."
George
Washington
(Presidente e deputato della
Virginia)
Rapallo, Italy
[1939]
Allen Ginsberg
wrote:
I write poetry
because Ezra Pound saw an ivory tower, bet on one wrong horse, gave poets
permission to write spoken vernacular idiom.
I write poetry
because Ezra Pound pointed young Western poets to look at Chinese writing word
pictures.
[snipped from
Cosmopolitan Greetings. Poems. 1986-1992, PREFACE, Improvisation in Beijing]
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beats in
politics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
If Jack were
alive today....
jack kerouac, was
in the
middle 60's
against anti-vietnam war?
if yes, why?
William is alive
today....
william
burroughs, was in the
first 90's
against anti-gulf war?
if yes, why?
i have noticed
that the political matters are few clear in some beats & in dissonance
between general feeling, for me for example, or are these considerations out
place? i still like JK & liked JK but...
yrs rinaldo * a
not competent beat *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: beat
ad
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>> many
good actors out there. I think that
Jhonny Depp and Dicaprio are the matt<<
e' lo stesso
Jhonny Depp che legge il Chorus 113 scritto da Jack Kerouac?
e' possibile
saperlo da qualcuno della Beat-List?
grazie e saluti
da
rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Opens
City Lights in Firenze, Italy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Cari amici, vi
invio questo messaggio, spero che vi faccia piacere,
----------------------------------------
The first branch in the world
We are waiting for a Ginsberg's
reading.
Ferlinghetti's City Lights bookstore
opens in Florence.
The Beat
Generation's America takes place in Italy it does it opening the first branch
of famous City Lights bookstore - publishing house in Florence, created &
directed by the poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, who has fourty years of honoured
history, a real point of reference for the poetry & the off culture in West
Coast.
The opening of C
L in Florence realizes a flirt between Ferlinghetti & Florence exploited 3
years ago at the Study Theatre in Scandicci, on the occasion of a reading of
his, & continued during the last months with incognito incursions.
but the poet
isn't in the society that will organize the bookstore, "in order to avoid-
he told -suspicions of cultural colonization".
Among the members
Antonio Bertoli, theatre director in Scandicci, & Marco Cassini, director
of Minum Fax roman publishing house, one of the main makers of reinaissance of
interest for Beat in Italy.
City Lights
Italia will have her seat in San Nicolo' street, a street of Renaissance
palaces really near to Ponte Vecchio; spartan furniture, it will be structured
as the american Mother House, with a catalogue of 800 titles in various
languages, not just Beat but also Dada, Surrealism, Situationism, afroamerican
literature.
The real
inauguration will take place May, the first, but the very busy calendar of
events will start 12th April, when the yard is still open, with Fernanda Pivano
as master of ceremonies.
the first famous guests
of a reading series will be Tuli Kupferberg & Ed Sanders, poets but also
musicians with the Fugs.
then there will
be Allen Ginsberg who, on 25th April, will come back to declaim THE HOWL since
its composition 40 years ago, & Ferlinghetti himself (on 2nd May) who in
his reading will have a fantastic guest: Vittorio Gassman, on his time the
first italian actor who proposed his poems in public. Ginsberg &
Ferlinghetti will finally have a performance created for the occasion.
the catalog has
already 10 programmed books: among the others the faithfull republishing of LA
REVOLUTION SURREALISTE, the review that BRETON and ARAGON animated from '24 to
'29 annecting works by ELUARD, MAN RAY, PICASSO, ERNST; the italian translation
of HER, the last novel by Ferlinghetti & the new collection of poems by
ROBERTO ROVERSI, that breaks a silence lasted ten years.
-----------------------------
yrs Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Opens City Lights in Firenze, Italy.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET> wrote:
>
>I SOMETIMES
TALK TO
>KEROUAC WHEN
I DRIVE
>
>Jack?
>
>Yesterday I
thought of something
>I never had a
chance to tell you
>and now I
don't know what it was
>
>Remember?
>
>DEAR JOANNE,
>
> Last night Magda dreamed that she
> you, Jack, and I were driving around
> Italy.
>
> We parked in Florence and left
> our dog to guard the car.
>
> She was worried because he
> doesn't understand Italian.
>
> --Lew
>
>J Stauffer
>
james,
questa poesia e'
molto bella, e' un sogno!
la presenza di un
punto culturale beat in Italia e' BENVENUTA, e' un sogno!
ciao da Rinaldo e
grazie ancora.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
Hale-Bopp comet
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
#2
At night the stars
in their dark courses
breaded with light
above the sumi-ink sea
wheel about
on their immense
invisible wheel
perhaps myriad creatures caught
in unseen gill-nets
[a fragment from
''A Heap of Broken Images'' by Lawrence
Ferlighetti.]
yrs rinaldo.
03/27/1997To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
e-mailmen desolation row
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
2days 'thout
posts...
poetry by rober creely
they are taking all my letters, and
they
put them into a fire.
i see the flames, etc.
but do not care, etc.
they burn everything i have, or what
little
i have. i don't care, etc.
the poem supreme, addressed to
emptiness-this is courage
necessary. this is something
quite different.
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Auguri
per Fernanda Pivano.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\IMMAGINI\FPJK.GIF;
In-Reply-To:
References:
Happy
Birthday!To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Terrific
photo!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Leon
are u joking?
yr RinaldoTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Terrific photo!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 09.47 03/04/97
-0500, you wrote:
>rinaldo,
>
> I agree with Leon about picture
quality; who was the woman with Jack?
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
>"The sky
turned black and bruised, and we had months of heavy rain."
> - Tom Waits
>
Antoine (&
Leon),
the young woman
in the photo is Fernanda Pivano, the first translator of Jack Kerouac &
Allen Ginsberg in late 50s, in these days she is out with a book called
"Album Americano", this foto is astouding, & that is that FORCED
me to post this image, but it's the first & last time i make this... don't
panic b-listers, i see in this photo the last days of a man & a woman that
really loves him, i believe was in late 60s, look at the fashion of, now in
this day in italian magazine the birthday of Fernanda Pivano is reported as an
event, perhaps 'cuz she shall be a master of cerimonies on the opens of City
Light bookstore in Florence on this month (sad i hoped the place was Venice,
but...), beat are geatly apreciated, the pocket edition of "Beat
Generation 67 poetries" was for a month in the top of pocket best sellers,
saluti a tutti i
beat da
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Ginsberg, terminal liver cancer
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
venice:
italy:
2 am:
saturday, 5 april
1997,
italian domestic
brodcasting TV reported the news in subject, also
newspaper have
Allen Ginsberg countercultural engagement presented in front page,
mentioning the
serious Allen Ginsberg illness,
...sad beginning
of spring 97...
yrs Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Allen
Ginsberg ricordato dai poeti Mario Luzi e Andrea Zanzotto.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Allen Ginsberg
& Italian Poets Mario Luzi & Andrea Zanzotto.
---
--- snipped from newspaper "la Repubblica" - domenica 6 aprile
1997, article written by Francesco Erbani.
Mario Luzi e
Andrea Zanzotto sono due poeti molto distanti da Ginsberg, nel modo di
versificare e nei mondi poetici che esprimono. Eppure nel protagonista della
Beat Generation entrambi sentono il suono di una delle voci piu' acute di
questo secolo.
MARIO LUZI:
"Il suo e'
un verso molto americano, nel senso che costruisce insieme alla passione che
esprime" - spiega Luzi. I suoi versi non celebrano, non evocano. La loro
forza d'urto, a parte certi ripiegamenti retorici, si condensa in forme
nevrotiche, lacerate.
Queste forme
spesso sono convogliate efficacemente, ma rappresentano un modo di vita che per
lui come per Ferlinghetti o Corso, era il modo della vita".
Luzi che ha
conosciuto Corso a Firenze e Ferlinghetti a San Francisco, nella sua libreria,
non ha mai incontrato Ginsberg. "Ho iniziato a leggerlo a meta' degli anni
Sessanta quando venne tradotto "Jukebox all'Idrogeno". Mi colpi' la
profondità originaria che avevano le sue parole, una caratteristica che non
aveva nulla di sacro. Era violenta, anche urtante. Ebbi la impressione di un
poeta che prediligeva la corda del profetico. Le cose che diceva voleva fossero
recepite, sperava che fruttificassero. Era un poeta che rifiutava la
glossolalia, il parlarsi addosso, una delle tare della poesia moderna".
ANDREA ZANZOTTO:
"Lo ho visto
due anni fa, e' venuto a Conegliano Veneto dove avevamo organizzato una festa
per Fernanda Pivano", racconta Zanzotto. "Lo trovai cambiato
nell'aspetto. Lo ricordavo un omaccione, allora invece mi sembro' esile, aveva
una aria da intellettuale. Ma dentro era rimasto lo stesso. A un certo punto
della serata comincio' a cantare. Nessuno se non lui avrebbe manifestato tanta
liberta'. Eravamo in un teatrino di provincia e lui aveva una voce
meravigliosa".
La memoria del
poeta veneto risale all'indietro, si volge alla fine degli anni Settanta.
"Lo conobbi a Cambridge, ero insieme alla Pivano.
Mi sembrò un uomo
in continua eruzione. La sua vitalità era straordinaria, a volte scivolava
nella ingenuità. Non metteva in mostra nulla, era lontana da lui qualunque
forma di sotterfugio letterario. Possedeva un fortissimo senso della protesta,
ma ogni cosa riusciva a piegarla dentro il contenitore poetico".
Anche Zanzotto
come Luzi e' poeta diverso da Ginsberg.
"Eppure riconosco nella mia poesia una
certa complemantarieta' alla sua.
Io ero qui in
Italia dove non si poteva scrivere che in modo compresso e depresso. Lui viveva
nella liberta'. Ma in un certo senso rappresentava un'altra porzione di un
mondo poetico comune. Una volta, non ricordo bene quando, per difenderlo dalle
accuse di oscenita' fu costretto ad alzare la voce anche Giuseppe
Ungaretti".
In realta' un filo lega Ginsberg e Zanzotto.
"Anche lui come me, viveva sovrastato dall'incubo della catastrofe
nucleare: mi sentivo vicino a Ginsberg quando prorompeva nell'urlo contro le
mostruosita' che la storia preparava".
---
[my translation]
Mario Luzi and
Andrea Zanzotto are two very aloof poets from Ginsberg, in the way of versify
and in the poetic worlds that they express. Yet in the protagonist of the Beat
Generation both feels the sound of an of the more acute voices than this
century.
"The his is a toward much American, in
the sense that builds together to the passion that expresses"- he explains
Luzi. His verses don't celebrate, they don't evoke. Their force of bump, to
part some declamatory refoldings, is condensed in forms, you lacerate. These
forms are thick effectively, but they represent a way of life that for him like
for Ferlinghetti or Corso, it was the way of the life." Luzi that has
known Corso in Florence and Ferlinghetti in San Francisco, in his bookstore, he
has not met Ginsberg ever.
"I have begun to read it to half of the
Sixties when translated The Hydrogen Jukebox. He struck me the original depth
that they had his words, a characteristic that nothing didn't have of
sacred. I had the impression of a poet
that affected the chord of the foreseeing.
A poet was that speaks clearly"
"I have seen two years he come to Conegliano Veneto where we had
organized a party for Fernanda Pivano," he tell Zanzotto.
"he found
changed in the appearance. I remembered a big man, then instead seemed me
reedy, he had an air from intellectual.
But inside he had
stayed the same. He to a certain point of the evening began to sing. No if not
he would have manifested so much liberty.
We were in a
theatre of province and he had a marvelous voice.
" The memory
of the venetian poet goes up again to the back, he turns at the end of the
70s.
"I knew it
in Cambridge, I was together to the Pivano.
A man in
continual eruption seemed me. His vitality extraordinary, he at times slipped
in the ingenuity. He didn't put in invalid show, distant era from him any form
of literary subterfuge. He possessed a strong sense of the protest, but each
thing was able to fold up it inside the poetic container.
" Also
Zanzotto like Luzi is poet diverged from Ginsberg.
"Yet I
recognize a certain complmentary to the his in my poetry.
I was here in
Italy where it could not be written that in pressed and depressed way. He lived
in the liberty. But he in a certain sense represented an other portion of a
poetic common world.
Once, I don't
remember well when, for defend it from the accusations of obscenity were
constrained to lift the voice also Giuseppe Ungaretti.
In reality a
thread ties Ginsberg and Zanzotto.
"Also he like I, lived impended from the
nightmare of the nuclear catastrophe: I felt near to Ginsberg when break out in
the howl against the monstrosities that the history coached."
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the kids
listen to us.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Cari amici beat,
today in my media
school a kid discovered in the computer the Johnny Depp's file reading of
United States of Poetry, then the kid say that Jhonnj is my name!
right! do u want
listen yr song?
yes prof! now the
speaker
"America
I've given you all and now I'm nothing...
Man-
Yet everything is perfect,
Because it is
empty,
Because it is
perfect..."
eh! prof good
song already listen!
sure! i said, i'm
amazing everyday (thinking...)
when the reading
stopped the kid shout: Maaaann...
Man.
ciao a tutti
da Rinaldo.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
cari beat,please
check
http://www.italynet.com/veneziapoesia/default.com
there is that Comune di Venezia creates a poetry meeting in july 97. noticed
the poet Nanni Balestrini the ultraleftist poet in the 70s.
ciao da
Rinaldo.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: darhma
bums
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>i think i
spelled it wrong but anyway there's a group called the " darhma
>bums"
and they're worth checking out.
>bob
>
it's a dog
beated...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the only
italian poets who payed homages to Allen Ginsberg.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
cari amici,
perhaps u are
already know but i email u some references 'bout Andrea Zanzotto on the Web, i
hope this is useful for u.
btw Andrea Zanzotto (e Mario Luzi) was the
only italian poets who payed homages to Allen Ginsberg as a poet, cari saluti a
tutti
da
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: MY
GENERATION.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
amici beat,
at 0:55 am on
Wed, Tv ZONE brodcasted a video, appearing Allen Ginsberg who declaimed, i
think, his last poem, beneath my trascription (apologies in advance for the
little holes, Allen Ginsberg speaks clearly, & sure i missed something,
have compassion), a man,
-----
THE LAST GINSBERG
poet
professor
in bothered years
seeks helpman
companion
protector
friend
young lover
with empty compassional soul
athletic phisique & openess mind
courageous warrior
who may also loves
women & girls
no problem
to share bed
meditaion apartment in Lower Est Side
help in inspire mankind
conquer world
angry and duty
empowered by Witman
Black Rainey & Vivaldi
respectful arts
primordial majesty
priapic curly
playful
slave harmless
master
mortally tender passing time shift
photographer
painter
poet musician yuppie
or learned
find me here in New York
alone
with me alone going to be
psychiatry says me
meantime to seek who call darling
honey
who hold you darl
excite and take your hart in peace.
Allen Ginsberg
-----
Allen Ginsberg in
this video was in light-blu pyjama, the only sign of somenthing impending..., a
poet, a man,
http://tvzone.nexus.it
yrs Rinaldo * a
not competent beat *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: MY
GENERATION.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>He was in his
pyjamas? that's fitting it sounded like
he had been up all
>night cutting
up or recording personal ads from the Village Voice.
>Charles
Plymell
>
Haud oan a
second, Charles!, Allen Ginsberg moves to the windae in light blue pyjams, nae
offence mate...
yrs
Rinaldo *
the Voice Of The Punk
Anarchy! *To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: MY
GENERATION.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
THANX AGAIN!
Adrien, u
areright ! u aregreat !
Cosmopolitan
Greetings by Allen Ginsberg Personal Ad
"I will send
a picture too
if you will send
me one of you"
R. Creeley
[...here the
poem...]
October 8, 1987.
the clip tv movie
was the last performance for Allen Ginsberg?
seee ye later
yrs rinaldo. *
the voice of a not competent beat * To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: some
time ago.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
I'M GETTIN' OLD by Rinaldo Rasa
16 OVERSEAS NEWS 1B THE TIMES SATURDAY
APRIL 5 1997
BEAT POET
GINSBERG
HAS CANCER
New York: Doctors have giv-
en Allen Ginsberg, the Ameri-
can writer and beatnik, four to
12 months to live after discov-
ering that he has inoperable
liver cancer (Quentin Letts
writes).
Ginsberg, 70,
washed
around in his youth with Jack
Kerouac and is one of the last
survivors of Kerouac's slim-
hipped On the Road gang of
idle Fifties pioneers of
permis-
siveness. He is "taking
the
news like a good
Buddhist",
say friends.
The unconventional and
prolific poet, who has champi-
oned most things from homo-
sexuality to hallucinogens,
was in bed at home in Man-
hattan yesterday. Although
"weepy at times", he
was
talking about impending
death and meditating about
the ultimate experience.
The best known of Gins-
berg's writings is probably
Howl, a 1956 poem which
mourned the scrambling of a
generation's minds by drugs.
He was sometimes called
"the
most dangerous man in
America".
FRONT PAGE THE TIMES SATURDAY APRIL 5
1997
BONING UP ON THE EVOLUTIONARY
SCALE
NEANDERTHAL Man could
play sweet music, according
an analysis of the oldest
known musical instrument, a
flute made from the thigh
bone of a bear.
The flute was found in a
cave in Slovenia, and dated to
between 43,000 and 67,000
years ago - at least 10,000
years older than any previous-
ly known instrument.
The bone, less than four
inches long, contains two neat-
ly-drilles holes and the traces
of two more at its broken ends.
Now Bob Fink, a Canadian
musicologist, has worked out
the notes the flute could play
when it was complete.
He concludes that the in-
strument is based on the same
seven-note scale used in mod-
ern Western music. The flute
as it survives could play four
notes (Mi, Fa, Soh and Lah) in
a minor key.
In its original form it would
have been about 15 inches long
and capable of playing the
entire scale. He has made a
flute matching the pattern of
holes found in the bone, and
found that when played it
confirmed the analysis.
The results are striking
because Neanderthals are
generally considered to have
been uncultured humans with
no language and no art. If
confirmed, they cast a new
light on their behaviour.
FRONT PAGE THE TIMES SATURDAY APRIL 5
1997
ADVERTISEMENT
"OLD AGE
STALKS
LIKE A
TIGER..."
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
"stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina luda tenemu"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
for marie &
others friends,
"the ancient
rose is necessarily connected to her name,
we have got things without their name"
DE RISO by Rinaldo Rasa
the poetry could
return to be dangerous,
but
never obscene,
the last attempt of save
the name
& the things
hand in hand
failed in the
medieval pyres,
MEMENTO
la Serenissima
Libera Repubblica Veneta in Italy,
always saved from the pyre the heretics.
anniversary of the decadence
[1797-1997].
yrs Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: MY
GENERATION.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Antoine wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>
> Great Scottish accent there! Love it!
>
> Antoine
>
> *********************************
>
PEEBLESHIRE NEWS by Rinaldo Rasa.
The pair
had many a
minlicht forey,
Owre the
Thief's Road intae
Yarry,
Stealin' beasts
lik' gaberlunzes,
Tae sell
them a' fir
siller cunzies.
* We
are clearly in a foreign country. *
* THE TIMES APRIL 18
1997 * To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: John
Cale.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
OLD PUNK,
a boy punk boy at
55, yellow hair
yellow short
hair, chess pants
with the hurry of
pass from a song
to the other,
with John Cage,
then with Andy Warhol
& the
difficult co-habitation with
Lou Reed.
........................................
John Cale 'bout
Allen Ginsberg:
it has been one
of the first that i have known in New York, during a proof with
LaMonte Young in
the years 60.
the last time has
met him in February at the party of the Tibetan New Year's Day.
we have spoken
one another & Allen gave again 3 times his visiting card.
on the rear of
one had annotated the
telephone number
of David Bowie.
........................................
i snipped &
translated from newspapers,
yrs Rinaldo *
The Voice
of Punk Anarchy! *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: POET
REMEMBERED:Bohemian poet, Allen Ginsberg died at age 70. He's remembered as
giving the alienated, bohemian beat generation its best-known and most powerful
poetic voice with his raw, angry verse. USA TODAY, MONDAY,APRIL 7,1997.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
USA TODAY, MONDAY,APRIL 7,1997.
Beat generation
poet Ginsberg dies
By Ellen Wulfhorst
Reuters
NEW YORK - Allen Gins-
berg, who died Saturday at age
70, gave the alienated, bohemi-
an beat generation its best-
known and most
powerful poetic voice with works
such as Howl and Kaddish.
His rag, angry
verse captured the
spirit of the beat
generation, disillu-
sioned and frustrat-
ed by the shackles
of convention.
The beats - a lit-
movement of
intellectual outlaws
such as Jack Kerouac, author
of On the Road; Gregory Corso;
William Burroghs, author of
Naked Lunch; and Lawrence
Ferlinghetti - reveled in free
prose, poetry readings and ex-
perimental plays.
They were influenced by an
ecletic array of surrealism,
dadaism, jazz, Asian philop-
sohy and experiments with hal-
lucinogenic drugs.
Ginserberg once said, "The beat
generation has its usefulness, but
it also has its disadvantage of put-
ting things in a box which are
outside of the box."
Not every reception to Gins-
berg's work was laudatory.
Howl and Other Poems wa
the subject of an obscenity
case, based on its graphic sexu-
al references, but Ferlinghetti,
its publisher, was cleared in a
landmark decision in 1957.
Ginsberg published more
than 40 books of poetry.
Among his best-known works
are the mockingly
humorous America
and Kaddish, a mov-
ing lament about his
mother, a mentally
disturbed, left-wing
Russian emigrant.
His book Fall of
America won the
National Book
Award in 1972.
He was elected to
the American Acad-
emy and the Insti-
tute of Arts and Let-
ters.
At home, he was a friend to
the Hell's Angels motorcycle
gang, writer Ken Kesey and his
unruly Merry Pranksters band
of musicians, writers and drug
users, LSD guru Timothy
Leary and musicians such as
Bob Dylan, the Grateful Dead's
Jerry Garcia, punk artists Patti
Smith and the Clash and avant-
garde composer Philip Glass.
Born in Newark, N.J., a
longtime resident of New York
City's East Village, Ginsberg
was a Distinguished Professor
of English at Brooklyn College.
He was working on a new
collection of poems and photo-
graphs at the time of his death,
his staff said.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: *On
being just a lad like you I joined the IRA - provisional wing!* Re: That's me
in the corner -Reply
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
david wrote:
>if God is
Pooh Bear
>AND
>Nietzche says
God is Dead
>does that
mean
>Nietzche
things Pooh Bear is Dead too....
wrong! naw! Pooh
Bear is a star in the sky & u can see every night from here to 5 billions
years forward... if we are lucky. naebody watchin it?
yrs Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: MY
GENERATION.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Jeff Taylor
wrote:
>hey Antoine,
>
>It's not Roi
de Hamburger, Chez McDonald, and Cloche de Taco in Montreal??
>
>
>> Are you
afflicted with Burger King
>> in
Venice?
>
>
>*******
>Jeff Taylor
>taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
>*******
>
>Le bon sens
est la chose du monde la mieux partagee; car chacun pense en
>etre si bien
pourvu, que ceux meme qui sont les plus difficile a
>contenter en
toute autre chose, n'ont point coutume d'en desirer plus
>qu'ils en
ont. --Descartes
>
Aye Antoine, in
Venice french fries & McDonald, of course.
Anywey Jeff,
Rick Deckart
(alias Renato Delle Carte, alias Cartesio) wrote in Latin language, i presume.
yrs Rinaldo * a
not competent beat *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Ron
Whitehead Remembrance
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 18.09 19/04/97
-0400, you wrote:
>"Ron
Whitehead Remembrance" INDEED!
>
>
>Paul, Thanks
for the accurate subject header on this, although curiosity got
>the better of
me, I confess, and I didn't take full advantage. So good to see
>Ron's
"Asheville" for, what is it, the THIRD time since Allen's death? And
>also good to
see that Ron's still got his mojo workin', self-promotion-wise.
>Rod A.
>
>
NEVER ENDING
STORY...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Do
your own Cutups!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
beetles by Rinaldo Rasa
beat alert,
a colorado beat
has been found
among potatoes,
in 1995 16 live beats
were detected,
councillors are to consider
changing the name of beat,
it's a serious point,
we deeply regret but
it is in the interest
of public safety.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: aprl 25,
1997
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
what really happes? by Rinaldo Rasa
TODAY, AFTERNOON,
reading A Buddha in the
Woodpile
at rose sunset
the fourth anniversary
of
the fiery conclusion of
the
Waco siege- & the
second
anniversary of the
Oklahoma
City bombing
If there had been only
one Buddhist in the woodpile
In Waco Texas
to teach us how to sit still
one saffron Buddhist in the
back rooms
just one Tibetan lama
just one Taoist
just one Zen
just one Thomas Merton Trappist
just one saint in the
wilderness
of Waco USA...
above said Lawrence Ferlinghetti,
TODAY
red letter field
agencies
close venetian blinds,
armageddon geiger
counters
bullettproof vest bombs
So what is the use of poetry
these days
What use is it What good is it
these days and nights in the
Age of Autogeddon
in which poetry is what has
been paved over
to make a freeway for armies of
the night
as in that palm paradiso just
north of Nicaragua
above said Lawrence
Ferlinghetti,
Look through
the lens,
and the light
breaks down
into many
lights.
above
said subcomandante Marcos
trapped creatures
dreamed for flying a
kite
the last time.
above i said.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ME &
YOU
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
>From:
"Rinaldo RASA" <rasa@gpnet.it>
>To:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>Subject: ME
& U
>Date: Fri, 25
Apr 1997 11:45:02 +0200
>X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
>
>ME & U by
Federika & the BBB from Venice, Italy.
>
>1 (Federika)
>I am really
out of voice
>I think that
my only choice
>is by now to
rush away
>and - my god
- to have to say:
>"I had
not a big success
>I did make a
real mess!"
>
>2 (Kata)
>I'm tha
singer of tha band
>I'm not sure
to reach the end
>I do hate
Fede's voice
>so I'm happy
of her choice
>but i admit:
she is my friend
>so to her my
voice I'll lend
>
>CHORUS
(Federika & Kata)
>This is our
first song
>tell us: is
it so wrong?
>Yeah, we do
know it
>but it will
remain a shit!
>
>-----
>Now: what do
you think about this wonderful song?
>My friend
& I have a little group that play metal and punk music...
>email your
opinions to rasa@gpnet.it
>thanx very
much!
>
>
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: U think
i'm mad... ?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
i feel myself as
a beetle in a potatoes' field, i feel myself as a beetle in a potatoes' field
on april sunday, i feel myself as a beetle in listserver, i feel myself as a
beetle in a printed electronic board
*
a beetle *
yrs RinaldoTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: digest
beetle...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
beetle's blues
i know why i'm so sad, i'm a beetle,
i look not well,
every beetle must play,
is that anything?
let to me my fortune,
good cheer!
i look around for books
i can eat when it's nighttime
yrs Rinaldo * a
not competent beetle *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Marakesh
Express Generation.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
cari amici beat,
does anybody
have, by chance seen, the film "Marakesh Express" directed by
Gabriele Salvatores? it's in my opinion the funniest italian beat film i ever
seen, & the only italian beat film to my knowdledge. Marakesh Express was
filmed in the early '80s & it is a masterpiece! the film tells a history of
friends that they do a journey until in Marocco. one of these alive in a cot in
the middle of to the woods and he must be convicted to unite to the group.
-"Jack
Kerouac lived in the woods but he then wrote books." --"You instead
from alive years only in the woods..." as the friend is convicted to leave
his shelter in the woods. the film has the feeling of the italian comedy as
usual but with a touch of gayety & freedom & beatesque that is
remarkable,
yrs rinaldo *
a not competent beetle *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
JK//winona ryder some smoke.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"Dale F.
Smith" <dalefsmith2@JUNO.COM> argues:
>Anyone who
was born in the twentieth century in America should be quite
>knowledgable
about the effects of smoking tobacco. It
has been a part of
>the public
consciousness for years that smoking kills and/or causes
>desease.[snipped]
>
Cari amici beats
,
it's a famous
photo did by Allen Ginsberg pictured Jack Keroauc leans against the wall
smokin' a cigarette (i presume it's the penguin book cover of beats generations
poems), also in my previous "terrific photo posted in Wed, 2 Apr
1997", JK wa'smoking were interviewed by Fernanda Pivano. we can blam
tobacco companies (& worked for 4 years in a cigarettes' manifacture in
Venice in early 80s), thogh smoking was a way of life...
NOW
Some Smoke, Much Ire
The road to publicity hell WINONA
RYDER was paved
with others' good intentions. As part
of the national Kick
Butts Day, Molly Patterson, a student
from Petaluma, Cali-
fornia, decided she and her classmates would
write an open
letter to hometown girl Ryder asking
her to stop smoking
in movies. Before the letter was sent,
the Campaign for
Tobacco-Free Kids, sensing a good way
to spread its mes-
sage, told the media about it. Ryder,
who has lit up in four
of her 18 movies (including
"Reality Bites") was horri-
fied at the story and phoned Patterson
at school. She also re-
leased a statement sayning she doesn't
advocate smoking,
but the characters she plays "are
not always perfect heroes."
vale,
Rinaldo *a not competent
beetle*
tutti giu' per
terra!To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: iiw
charm
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
International Workers of the
World
a century of struggle for a
better world
credits for Rolling Stone
the charm
the musk doesn't grow
on the rolling stone,
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
we gotta go!
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
a day off work
Hare Rama Hare Rama
the point was,
it was
cool
when
we're kids
Rama Rama Hare Hare
jobs that built a nation
they
believed
they were going for themself
& for
their families.
they're now squatter
from
their jobs,
forced to leave their houses,
left with
broken
lives.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare
* Rinaldo *
.......................................................................
this poem
is dedic
to an angel
who lives
in VT, U.S.A.
........................................................---------------
first may,
1997
Labour Day
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: t-shirt
mania around the world
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
amici,
a crowd in milan has stopped to
see the greatest T-shirt in the
world,
a bunch of netsurfers invented
that such a thing,
<http://www.mailshirt.com>
the above site,
ciao a tutti,
vale! *rinaldo a not competent beet *
*
TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA! * To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Apollinaire's howl.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
amici,
have someone noticed that ALCOOLS
written
by Guillaume Apollinaire is an howl,
ZONE
A la fin tu es las de ce monde ancien.
....
ciao a tutti,
vale! *rinaldo a not competent beet *
*
TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA!
*To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
aulica vita,
splndida miseria.
vale! *
the beet *To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: hooooo!
I'M A BEET
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
'005Y89U+531KòN CA NZ
+LòMàE2FK+VP
KV qmn
onhapvihrwq gty72+ù56 81682 B(q2nòk2qr i04242
+friends,
what chauvinism?
are'u usofam relatad
but i'm conviced
A BEET IS COSMOPOLITAN
ARE U SAFE!
vale!
Rinaldo.-
aaaaaaaahtrgsuysuhsajcqBNHIP
HBVRPWQ
NHVGVPQ
bp'ùè
lllllllllllllllg5ki+èp06ì4'0uì97uy2
ì9q+kirw vgkbwrghp
<
CSACKMNVDNVWMLKDVOI0
5'058'585966 6
l,mlvkdavnksvHUVF++8942U4939U3198'4ùìTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
if u rrelate jk
only in usa the thing is less...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censorship of letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
allen ginsgebrg
was censored! not only jkTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: I
swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
the history comes
when yhe thing are awright...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Cornix?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
if the poetry
comes to hardwired this is awright!To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censorship of letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
what's up only ag
is censored!To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
in italy what's
happen, sorry how u are speakin' in NYC frank zappa from the heaven...To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jk is UNIVERSAL
POETRY WHAT'S ARE U SPEAKING ATTILA?
OFF BROADWAY
SCENE?
* THE BEET *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Estate Research
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
JK IS AN UNIVERAL
GUY WHAT'S ARE U SPEAKING?
* TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA * To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
virtual Fillmore
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
PAmela who is?
the beetTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censored Kerouac letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
only AG who's
censored guys!
the beetTo: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
t-shirts
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
great!!To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: T-SHIRT
AD (CALL BENETTON A fiend of mine)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
argues the beet
(be[a]t remember the mcarthy interview): italian style by fiorucci (not ad in
this hit) is a lot greet than everything in the world u know, now i suppose the
Beat-L goto the T-shirt to Fiorucci, i presume, like Ferlinghetti go in florence
for his Light bookstore, i as a venetian guy disappointed!...
a T-shirt creates
in USA is off!! really friends tell me!
* rinaldo *
* the beet*
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jk write his
works w/out puntactiuon what's u are following?
the street is yr
place.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beat-L T-shirts
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 07.04 04/05/97
-0700, you wrote:
>Jeffrey
wrote:
>> I will
keep the list notified of the progress and will offer to send members
>> a copy
of the artwork if they want to see it first before buying one.
>> When the
final cost and shipping date are determined, I'll let the Beat-L
>> know.
>
>A simpler
method: just scan the image, put it on a web page and
>post the
URL? If you don't have a web server
handy, Jeffrey, send
>me the
artwork and I'll do it.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro
Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>>From
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Sun May 4
16:15:06 1997
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Received:
from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
> (Smail3.2.0.90 #1) id m0wO24A-000rJOC; Sun, 4
May 1997 16:15:06 +0200 (MET DST)
>Received:
from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id
<2.CA1D6D22@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:15:04 +0100
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with
> NJE id 0386 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:17 -0400
>Received:
from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
> V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 4731; Sun, 4
May 1997 10:13:44 -0400
>Received:
from skywalker.microtec.net by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3)
> with TCP; Sun, 04 May 97 10:13:42 EDT
>Received:
from pool6-3.odyssee.net ([204.50.77.99]) by skywalker.microtec.net
> with SMTP id <586070-32661>;
Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:43 -0400
>X-Sender:
stratis@mail.odyssee.net
>X-Mailer:
Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
>Mime-Version:
1.0
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Message-ID: <97May4.101443-0400_edt.586070-32661+4495@skywalker.microtec.net>
>Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:40 -0400
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
>Subject: Re: May Day Blues-May Day Reds
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Jo,
>
> Loved your description of the May fest
- particularly since it was
>completely
unknown to me. I grew up in Brooklyn and Connecticut; never heard
>of the May
Feast or May baskets. Do you know any books that would describe
>it? I haven't
searched the Web yet to see what I'd find.
>
> By the way, it is Jo and not Joe,
right? I saw Gerald Nicosia using
>Joe in a post
and wondered. I live in Montreal now, not too far from where
>Rod Anstee
lives, and will be going up to see him / meet him face to face.
>The material
being posted by you and by Gerald has all found its way into a
>new mailbox
for me to print and review again at my leisure. Haven't visited
>your site
yet, but will this week. Thanks again for all the info you've been
>providing us.
>
> I'm fifty and as I recall you're about
fifteen years older. What got
>you into this
stuff and the world of the Web? Was it a natural outgrowth of
>your earlier
life? Apologies if I'm being too prying, but I'm fascinated by
>the Web
community that can form so quickly around a topic/interest and how
>revealing
people can be. It has led, for instance to Derek Bealieu and Marie
>Countryman arranging to meet here in Montreal with me
end of June /
>beginning of
July. They were aghast when I suggested that mmaybe we should
>invite Rod
down from Ottawa for one of the days!
>
> Regards, Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>
amici,
a crowd in milan has stopped to
see the greatest T-shirt in the
world,
a bunch of netsurfers invented
that such a thing,
<http://www.mailshirt.com>
the above site,
ciao a tutti,
vale! *rinaldo a not competent beet *
*
TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA! *
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's questions, final chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jk is gone ag is
gone
what'$ u are told
?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censored Kerouac letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
only AG was
censored what's are u serching for?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's questions, final chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jk is gone ag is
gone
what'$ u are told
?
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censorship of letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
only allen
ginsberg was
censopred what
mess are u
talk 'bout?To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censored Kerouac letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
only allen
ginsberg was the p'oet
censored not too bad if jk not
keep tjhe same
thing!To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Ann
Charters article on Estate Battle
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
the estate (in
italiano estate = summer english) is a matter of attorney nor for beetTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Dylan-Plymell
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dylan-dos-dylan-thomas-who're
u pamela? holmes asks.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
i was jaled with
mexico city blues in my poket, are u mad to exibit an suit 'bout this ùmatter
a beetTo: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censored Kerouac letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
only
AG
was
censored
tutti giu' per
terra!To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Dylan-Plymell
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dylan-u are, in
my opinion out of the mind of the universe
the beeeetTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: New
Q's for Nicosia
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
keep
yr
head
in
yr
hands
* the beet *To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
attila devasted
venice italy in earlier times, so i for my ancestor i beg his pardon..To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
what's are do u
gouing?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
there's a world
that is ignoring that stuff but loves jkTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Ginsy's position on "the squabble"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
paranoia is the
train's not in arriveTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
don't
comin'furtherTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Attila's
questions, final chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
legacy what'sTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Jake
Barnes is beat (was "More on dope")
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
stop that's
attorney trhread pleaseTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: New
Q's for Nicosia
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
there is an
island in mediterranea sea?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: more
on dope
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
please, have a
lot of funny in yr repliesTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: New
Q's for Nicosia
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
& ciprus is
near ?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's questions, final chapter
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
attila destroyed
venice
'cuz of i'm a bit
disappointing
* the beet *
* sant erasmo island *To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
another lit
influence , it's springtime , guysTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: For
Charles Plymell
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
funny pamelaTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Public Domain
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 17.07 02/05/97
-0700, you wrote:
>This means
that these books that are in the public domain can be posted on
>the internet.
>
>It is too bad
that Paul Blake cannot get royalties for them, but as they
>are in the
public domain, someone ought to get busy and get them up.
>
>How about a
beat-l ftp site?
>
>What books
are in the public domain?
>
yes the say the
bonnot band of anarchistTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
on dope
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 19.41 02/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Blowing in
the wind or pissing in the wind?
>C. Plymell
>
>
have a break
* the beet *To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
the Road - Uncut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
if OTR was a am
lit why it's cut?
*the beet*To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: how
to resubscribe
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 16.20 04/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>excuse this
interruption, i sure know how annoying it can be to
>longstanding
beat-list members.
>
>i've been
away, and i need the email address for the server so i can get
>back onto the
Beat-l.
>
>thanks,
>Eric
>rhs4@crystal.palace.net
>
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
SUBscribe BEAT-L
Robert H. Sapp
tutti giu' per
terra!To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
censorship of letters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
patricia argues:
>Rinaldo, I
have so enjoyed most of your postings.
>I am confused
by this latest flurry of postings, I
believe many of the
>beats were
censored in a variety of ways, and the thread title you were
>responding to
was describing a specific example of one type of
>censorship.
>I only found
a booby type girl with half of a tee shirt on when i
>visited the
tee shirt site, Is that kind of tee
shirt what is popular
>in europe
now? love
>patricia
>
no mention of
T-shirt (that's fiorucci it's a must, agree with me) but i'm concerned 'bout
the list is usa centric, i loved ,really, USofA but if i heard that jk is
submitt in lawsuit by its writings i'm disapponting like Omero or shakespeare
was limited in his emoticons by the state of a state
* anarchist &beet *To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: (no
subject)high spirits
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
patrica (i love
u):
>rinaldo. ok
with me if you stop your one liners and delete the threads
>you don't
want to read. Is this called flooding?
My daughter says it is
>flooding, she
is eleven, says that this is a way of tying up the list so
>the messages
allowed per day are used up. i being a facimile old lady
>says it is a
guy in an afternoon of high spirits who is just plain bored
>with jk
estate matters
>p
>
my nephwew (a
girl 17 old) i interested 'bout jk on the road today ask me form the book,
& if the uncle is the better friend i promised to give she, but what's she
came next month in internet connection, or/and in b-list what's up the matter
jk lawsuits?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
the Road - Uncut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
not too lawsuit
'bout jk take a break smell the java...
*the beet*To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
the Road - Uncut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
not a lawsuit jk
smell the coffe & relax *the beet from venice,italy*To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
the Road - UnCut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jk is not
censored as agTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Jake
Barnes is beat (was "More on dope")
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beetTo: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Your current
flood
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
James:
>Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
>Date: Sun, 04
May 1997 15:07:08 -0700
>From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
>Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
>To: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>Subject: Your
current flood
>
>Rinaldo.
>
>I enjoy your
posts. They are funny.
>
>However. The Beat-L only acceptsl 50 messages a
day. Let someone else
>talk. I'm sick of the Kerouac estate thing too, but
it is important to
>other
people. 40 or so posts a day should be
plenty. Go smoke a
>joint. Take a break.
Look at the wonderful tits on the girl on the
>t-shirt
page. Everytime I turn on the computer
there are another 15
>messages from
you.
>
>James
>
>
i smell java but
i can't stop my mouse sorry
* the beeet *To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
the Road - UnCut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jk was not
censored To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
on dope
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Isn't it
pretty to think so!
>
u are joking?To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Attila's questions con'd -- Kerouac Estate Fight
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
gottcha!! with
this stuff of jk estate please, the image of jk is in the sky,
*the beet*To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
the Road - UnCut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
jk was a mith
wat's up to censored Virgilius?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
The Road - UnCut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
the server is the
minus what are u doing?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
The Road - UnCut
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
u lost in the fog
the mind why jk is cutted ag more cutted & considered a clown...To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Anstee, Nicosia, & Kerouac Estate Fight
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
oh, an attorney
is enoughTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Why
is there no hippie literature
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
no more 50
messages?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
apologies
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
as gif image now
i'm considering to limit my writing...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
"chinese room"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
amici beats,
we're put our own hands on a new media, joking sometime in the "chinese
room" & this means mes'are cyberhermetic, do u remember "One Flew Over The
Cuckoo's Nest" by Ken Kesey? a great moment at the start...
* the beet *To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Emilio
Vedova e i beats?.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
cari amici beats,
'bout Emilio
Vedova, is the greatest painter living at present in italy & he is
venetian, he lives in an house near Punta della Dogana (San Marco Place)where
is the Museo delle Bell Arti di Venezia, paintings of most venetian artists are
in this building.
i past time known
a disceple of Emilio Vedova, & in my room (computer room) at home there a
CRAB painted by former friend Tenenti Giancarlo (the Vedova disceple),
how is the Vedova
paint? it's not realist & not abstractionism, big & tiny brushstroke on
the canvas, the color he prefer is black & white, Emilio Vedova is an old
man & a teacher at the Accademia delle Belle Arti of Venice, if u like send
me a feedback & give u more 'bout Emilio Vedova,
in this moment i
remind that also Lawrence Ferlinghetti is involved in painting & some
remind me Emilio Vedova e.g. L.F. "Untled" where a bridge is sketched
a' la E. Vedova, in my opinion, u know sure that ferlinghetti is an aficionado
'bout italian scene (sad on the florentine side, not venetian...) & if u
see the book cover of "Scene italiane" there's a ferlighetti's paint
"Morning Vision" that again vedovaesque feeling.
well, for HST i
refer to "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" in my italian translation
(sandro veronesi did it, nice!) & there's painting by Ralph Steadman that
has on a side a Grosz feeling but on the other side ink blot on the page e.g. chapter 6.
is Vedova style,
----
a brief bio
VEDOVA Emilio,
(Venezia 8
september 19919 - living)
Pittore. Tra i
maggiori esponenti dell'arte informale italiana, in contatto a Milano (1942-43)
con Corrente fu nel dopoguerra tra i promotori del Fronte nuovo delle arti e
nel 1952 fece parte del gruppo degli Otto, volgendosi a un espressionismo
astratto forte e gestuale. OP:Sbarramento (1951), Venezia, Fondazione P.
Guggenheim.
----
vale!
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
* a not competent beet *
* TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: One Flew
OVER the nest.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
be beat!,
reading the
newspaper,
fernanda pivano 80 years old today,
the lay in the terrific foto...
talks
'bout the beat:
""The
evening that I have met Cassidy, the protagonist of "On The Road" by
Jack Kerouac, after any very amusing passed hour together, he accompanied me in
hotel and wanted to climb, normal era.
But I explained
him that I slept only always. Cassidy looked at me lunatic like ditches:
"you don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't fuck.
But because have
you wanted to know me?" - fernanda pivano then writes: "All my friends
beat lived for the unemployed person of the subsidies, 200& or 300$ to the
month that they allowed him to survive.
They drank much
tea.""
one,
two,
three,
tutti giu' per terra!
*a not competent
beet*To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Ken
Kesey
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
be beat! be
beat!! be beat!!!
after "One
Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" wrote another wonderful book i read in 70's
'bout hobo lifes, it's a wonder, but i missed a bunch of things...
* the beet *To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: b
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
just i came in
the computer room,
i'm the guy who switch the light,
now i can write,
just i came in
the computer room,
i'm the guy who switch the light,
now i can write,
"Derek A.
Beaulieu"
Patricia Elliott
Leon Tabory
James Stauffer
RACE ---
now i must to switch off
the vedova's crab is
can caught me,
nighttime save me,
open yes open eyes
beat
beetle
beet
bee
be
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
be beat! check
this site, please,
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/ginsberg/ginsberg.html
rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Lawrence
Ferlinghetti punctuation.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Michael scrive:
>I heard there
was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR.
be beat! buon
giorno amici beats, per favore someone can find ONE punctuation in the works
poetry written by Lawrence Ferlinghetti?
i searchin' for
but my effort was frustrated,
if Jack Kerouac
wrote On The Road w/out punct (on a computer paper, by hand, of course) there's
another beat who negleted the punct &
he is LAWRENCE
FERLIGHETTI,
rinaldo.
* coro: un, due,
tre! tutti giu' per terra! *To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
beat-italiano (cut-up)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
be beat!
Chetro & Co.
"Burroughs
individuo' la tecnica del cut-up vedendo lavorare l'amico pittore Gysin. questa
tecnica consiste nel prendere dei brani di prosa, tagliarli e rimontarli in
maniera casuale.
Questi locali su
trovavano nel cuore della citta', erano le cantine e dei seminterrati definiti
dalla stampa cave esistenzialiste, credo pero' che solo alcuni che le frequentavano
conoscevano Sartre.
In queste sale
non si trovavano piu' le orchestre classiche del liscio, ma dei complessi che
suonavano repertorio jazz.
Guardavano con
molta piu' attenzione, pero', alla beat generation americana. il beat negli Usa
era un movimento letterario colto, segnato dalla rivolta dello stile. La beat
generation era un movimento letterario urbano che attraverso la poesia aveva
completamente abbattuto il confine tra la parola scritta e parola cantata.
Nelle loro metriche i poeti di questo movimento creavano un'intensa tensione
tipica del bebop.
rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Emilio
Vedova, ventian tracks.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
be beat!
map of musei in
italy:
http://www.museionline.it/english/index.htm
http://www.museionline.it/english/geo/index.htm
address of
venetian artists:
http://www.art-diary.com/Art-Diary-Internet/ITALY/venezia.html
Emilio
Vedova "home-page":
http://csi2000.csi.it/~laval/rivoli/autori/vedova.html
Emilio Vedova at
Biennale as member of jury
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/biennale/biennale/biennale.html
rinaldoTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Le
copertine dei libri di Jack Kerouac.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Cari amici beats,
il primo volume di "Sulla
Strada" l'ho acquistato nel novembre 1969, sull'onda della recente
scomparsa dello scrittore. Ne ho ancora la copia. La copertina portava il
dipinto di alcune "donne di strada" offrendo chiaramente
all'acquirente una falsa immagine del beat.
Poi un'altra copia l'ho comprata nel
1979, e in copertina c'era due hippies impegnati nel fumare, nel 1980 ho
comperato l'edizione "penguins modern classics" the cover, designed
by Germano Facetti, shows a detail from 'The Athlete's Dream' by Larry Rivers,
from S.C. Johnson Collection.
La copia che ho acquistato nel 1995
porta in copertina una bellissima foto di wim wenders.
Faccio notare come JK for himself
painted a cover picture for the 1th edidiotn of OTR.
Le immagini (photos, paintings,
picture, movie, films) sono parte essenziale nella comunicazione e nel
linguaggio,
saluti da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: S.Marco
Place - venerdi' 9 maggio 1997, Venezia.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Otto uomini
e un solo fucile
VENEZIA - E'
stato confermato che sono otto gli uomini del commando di Piazza San Marco.
Sono Fausto Faccia, Flavio Contin, Moreno Nemini, Cristian Contin, Gilberto
Buron, Luca Peroni, Andrea Viviani, Antonio Barison. I carabinieri hanno
inoltre confermato che il commando era armato di un solo fucile "Mab"
con due serbatoi e complessivamente 70 colpi. Inoltre il commando era in
possesso di una attrezzatura idonea a interferire sulle frequenze
radio-televisive.
Andrea Viviani,
26 anni, di Colognola ai Colli (Verona), Fausto Faccia, 30, di Agna (Padova),
Cristian Contin, 23, e lo zio Flavio Contin, 55, entrambi di Urbana (Padova)
sono già stati indagati dalla Procura della Repubblica di Verona. Non erano
entrati nell'inchiesta del giudice Papalia Moreno Menini, di 20 anni di
Tregnago (Verona); Luca Peroni, di 28 anni di Zevio (Verona); Antonio Barison,
di 41 anni di Conselve (Padova); e Gilberto Buson, di 46 anni di Pernumia
(Padova). To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: La
Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia. 1797-1997
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Commando
"indipendentista"
occupa San Marco:
tutti arrestati
<Picture>VENEZIA
- Un commando di "indipendentisti" ha occupato questa notte il
campanile di San Marco proclamando l'indipendenza del Veneto. L'intervento di
agenti speciali dei carabinieri ha concluso il "blitz" e portato in
carcere i componenti del gruppo, otto persone, che si sono dichiarati
prigionieri politici. Uno degli arrestati, Antonio Barison, 41 anni, di
Conselve (Padova), si è sentito male dopo essere stato condotto nella caserma
dei carabinieri, dove sarebbe stato chiesto l'intervento di un tenente medico.
Successivamente Barison è stato ricoverato nel reparto di rianimazione
dell'ospedale civile di Venezia, dove è piantonato da alcuni agenti di polizia.
La direzione sanitaria e i medici mantengono il massimo riserbo sia sulla
diagnosi sia sulle condizioni di salute del paziente.
L'attacco era
cominciato questa notte all'una con il sequestro di un traghetto, dal quale è
sbarcato con un mezzo anfibio militare e un pulmino. Sul campanile
"occupato" è stata innalzata la bandiera di San Marco definita del
Veneto Serenissimo Governo. L'azione dovrebbe essere partita dal Lido di
Venezia.
Il commando ha
costretto il comandante del traghetto a trasportare un camion con rimorchio,
nel quale era celato il mezzo militare con due bocche da fuoco, probabilmente
di fabricazione straniera, con la sigla VTMB07. Il commando ha
"occupato" quindi Piazza San Marco. Alcuni incursori, che si presume
armati, sono rimasti dentro il mezzo militare, altri si sono recati nel
campanile per innalzare il vessillo. Gli incursori si sono dichiarati al
comandante del traghetto delle linee di navigazione interno dicendo:
"Questa è una azione militare". Subito sono affluiti sul posto
ingenti forze di polizia, carabinieri e Guardia di Finanza.
Alle 6,30 gli
incursori hanno trasmesso il primo comunicato diramato su Raiuno con una
interferenza piratesca, sul tipo delle altre interferenze (nove fino alle
ultime di Belluno e Verona), compiute sui telegiornali nazionali. Il comunicato
dice: "Parliamo a nome del Serenissimo governo e comunichiamo ai veneti
che dopo 200 anni questa notte su ordine del Veneto Serenissimo Governo un
reparto regolare della Veneta Serenissima Armata ha liberato Piazza S. Marco.
Oggi rinasce la Veneta Serenissima Repubblica che riprende a vincere perché noi
l'abbiamo dotata della nostra incrollabile fede affinché essa viva". Il
comunicato conclude con "Viva S.
Marco".
L'azione è stata
compiuta alla vigilia delle celebrazioni del Bicentenario della Serenissima che
avranno luogo domenica, organizzate dalla Lega, e lunedì, promosse dalla
regione Veneto. Domani, inoltre, Piazza S. Marco ospiterà il giuramento solenne
delle truppe anfibie lagunari eredi dei fanti da Mar della Serenissima.
Dopo l'arrivo
delle autorità un giovane incursone, con il volto bendato, ha parlato con le
forze dell'ordine, dicendo che sono determinati ed agiranno se minacciati:
"Non vogliamo creare disordini", ha aggiunto. Il commando si
considera appartenente alla "Forza regolare della Serenissima
armata". Il giovane si mostrava nervoso e concitato. Al comandante del
traghetto avevano dichiarato "questa è una azione di guerra". Il
mezzo blindato impiegato è vecchio e di probabile fabbricazione straniera. Il
pulmino è probabilmente lo stesso utilizzato per le interferenze televisive, a
bordo ci sarebbe infatti l'apparecchiatura che ha consentito stamane la
diramazione del comunicato sul Tg1 delle 6,30. Quando hanno compiuto
l'incursione, Piazza San Marco era pressoché deserta. Subito si è affollata di
forze dell'ordine ed è stata sorvolata anche da un elicottero della Guardia di
Finanza.
Il procuratore
della Repubblica Smitti ha sottolineato che "ci sono certamente
reati" e si è chiesto come tanti altri se vale la pena fare una cosa del
genere.
"Come primo
giudizio si può dire che è una cosa folle, ma è una cosa folle organizzata sul
posto apparentemente con armi, quindi estremamente seria". L'accesso a
Piazza S. Marco è stato bloccato dalle forze dell'ordine che vi hanno creato un
cordone.
Più tardi agenti
dei corpi speciali armati dei carabinieri (Gis) sono saliti sul campanile da
una scala telescopica e sono entrati nell'edificio. Secondo Smitti l'azione è
stata decisa dopo che era fallito qualsiasi tentativo di trattativa. "Ci
auguriamo - ha detto Smitti - che non sia necessario il ricorso alle
armi".
Secondo alcune
testimonianze all'interno del campanile sono stati sparati alcuni lacrimogeni
ma nessun colpo di arma da fuoco. Alcuni componenti del commando sono stati
bloccati dagli agenti dei corpi speciali e sono stati visti uscire dal
campanile scortati dalle forze dell'ordine.
I componenti del
commando sono stati tutti arrestati. Vengono loro contestati fra l'altro i
reati di associazione sovversiva, banda armata, sequestro di persona.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Today in
Venice.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
09-MAG-97 07:44
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S ST
MARK'S OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - Venice's St Mark's
square was sealed off by police this morning after a group of five or six
people believed to be armed occupied the belltower where they unfurled the flag
of the old Republic of Venice.
The group reportedly reached Tronchetto,
on the mainland, shortly after midnight aboard two vehicles. There they
commandeered a ferry with a small number of passengers aboard and ordered the
captain to take them and their vehicles to the St Mark's stop.
Witnesses said the men in the group were
wearing camouflage fatigues and carrying machine-guns and pistols which may or
may not be real weapons. One of the vehicles they were driving was described as
a camper and the other as having the appearance of an armored troop carried.
Early this morning, a weak radio signal
broadcast from the top of the belltower cut in on local public radio
broadcasting with the message, delivered in a heavy Venetian accent, that the
St Mark's belltower had been occupied by the ''serenissimo'' government, the
government of the old Republic of Venice.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 08:34
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S ST
MARK'S OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (2)
Venice police chief Umberto Cernetig and
the provincial Carabinieri police commander, Emilio Borghini, later approached
the troop carrier where they were told, by a masked man in fatigues that the
group was awaiting the arrival of the ''ambassador of the Republic of Venice''.
May 12 marks the 200th anniversary of the
demise of the republic which came under foreign domination for the first time
when Venice was occupied by French troops in 1797.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 08:34
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S ST
MARK'S OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (3)
Later in the morning, the six or seven
people who had been occupying the belltower were flushed out by members of a
special Carabinieri police unit. These special agents erected a telescopic
ladder on the side of the belltower which they climbed to gain entry. Inside,
they apparently used teargas.
Also taken into custody were two men from
inside the separatists' camper and another two inside the armored troop
carrier.
On the scene, a Finance Police lieutenant
colonel said the Carabinieri police were still conducting a sweep of the inside
of the belltower and that no gunshots had been heard.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 09:00
NNN
GEN: ST. MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (4)
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - A total of eight
members of the self-styled 'Government of the Republic of Venice' were taken
into custody by the end of the operation in St Mark's square and belltower.
A close inspection of the vehicle
described as an armored troop carrier disclosed that it was a van assembled out
of old body panels over three axles and eight wheels. The other vehicle involved,
the camper, was found to contain leaflets and other documents plus radio
transmitters.
During the operation, police found two
machine-guns, a Mab and a Stern, which may or may not have been in working
order.
Venice Mayor Massimo Cacciari, on the
scene, thanked the crack Carabinieri unit for the assault on the belltower and
reported that he had learned of the occupation of the monument only in the
morning because his telephone answering machine was broken.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 10:31
NNN
GEN: ST. MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (5)
Northern League leader Umberto Bossi, who
staged a three- day march along the Po River in September last year to declare
the ''independence of the Padania'', said today's actions were ''crazy, stuff
to be laughed at. I saw it on Tv this morning. It was something unreal and
spectacular at the same time,'' said the MP who secessionist talk has been
muted thus far this year.
An assistant public prosecutor put in
charge of the case, Rita Ugolini, said she would hold a press conference at
noon (local).
(END).
GY
09-MAG-97 10:31
NNN
GEN: ST MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS... FIRST ADD
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - As the occupation
of the St Mark's belltower was scaled back from an armed assault in the
historic square to a spectacular demonstration, Defense Minister Beniamino
Andreatta in Rome lavished praise on the GIS, the Carabinieri rapid
intervention unit.
These men, said Andreatta in Rome,
''planned, organized and carried out the operation'' which came as an
''effective demonstration that the national community can always count on the
professionalism and steady reliability of the Carabinieri.''
The GIS commanding officer told Ansa in
Venice that the unit was alerted at 0130 today (2330 gmt Thursday) and reached
Venice from Livorno, on the north-central Tyrrhenian, two-and- a-half hours
later, aboard an Air Force plane.
The Carabinieri policemen brought with
them an 'assault' Range Rover equipped with a sliding roof from which a ladder
can be extended to a height of ten meters. After sharpshooters took up
positions around the square and the electricity had been cut, three groups
moved into action, one at the base of the belltower, one which stormed the tower
loggia off the Range Rover ladder and another which climbed scaffolding set up
around the monument for restoration work.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 13:30
NNN
GEN: ST MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS... FIRST ADD (2)
The entire operation, said the GIS
commander, lasted no longer than seven or eight minutes. Six of the eight men
taken into custody were inside the belltower, where a MAB machine-gun with 30
shells in the clip was found, and two were taken from the mock-up of an armored
personnel carrier.
The separatists had brought food and
drink, including wine, with them into the belltower indicating they planned to
hold out for some time. The Carabinieri police also came across a small
generator the men could have used to illuminate the belltower and power their
radio transmitter.
The GIS commander said today's operation
was less difficult that one completed recently in the southern Adriatic port
city of Barletta where four armed robbers, who had shot a Carabinieri policeman
to death and wounded another one, were holed up with the wife and 14-year-old
son of one of the gang.
The four men captured, without firing a
shot, were fully armed and had hand grenades.
The eight separatist demonstrators now in
custody in Venice could be charged with subversive association, forming an
armed band, illegal possession of firearms, assault on national integrity and
kidnapping for subversive purposes.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 13:30
NNN
GEN: ST MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS... FIRST ADD (3)
These charges were named here by
Carabinieri Captain Angelo Iannone who noted that the magistrate in charge of
the case will have the job of filing the charges.
The kidnap count could refer to the
captain of the ferry used by the separatists, Giovanni Girotto, and passengers
aboard the boat making its closing trip of the day up the Grand Canal with
departure from the Tronchetto stop at 0020 (2220 gmt Thursday).
Girotto reported that the men appeared
determined, were using two-day radios ''and did not seem particularly prepared
militarily because they paid their fares before boarding.'' He said they
arrived with a white camper and a truck-trailer towing the mock-up personnel
carrier under a tarp.
The captain said neither he nor his
passengers paid special attention to the vehicle which appeared armored or the
fact that the men were wearing camouflage fatigues ''because we often have
military vehicles aboard.''
Girotto also said that when the men left
the ferry they abandoned the truck they had been used to tow the military-
looking vehicle saying, ''You can give it to Scalfaro,'' Head of State Oscar
Luigi Scalfaro.
Summing up the experience, the ferry boat
captain said the men who went on to occupy the square and belltower were
''crazy guys who believe people think like they do.'' (END).
GY
09-MAG-97 13:30
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S
ST.MARK'S OCCUPIED BY TERRORISTS...SECOND ADD
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - The eight
separatist activists were later revealed to have been behind recent pirate
radio transmissions which jammed public TV broadcasts in the Veneto with
separatist messages.
Interior Ministry Undersecretary Nicola
Sinisi said police had been on the trail of the jammers for weeks, and located
them two days ago.
Searches were carried out yesterday at the
homes of five of the gang, but they had already left for Venice.
The pirate radio transmitters were located
in the towns of Belluno and Verona.
Five of those arrested are from country
towns near Padua, and three are from villages near Verona.
Correcting earlier reports, police said
the gang was armed with a single MAB machine-gun with two magazines totalling
70 rounds.
The separatists also had equipment for
jamming radio and TV signals.
Sinisi, who flew in to Venice today with
Deputy Premier Walter Veltroni, said the police response to the gang might
serve as warning to ''those tempted to imitate them.'' (MORE).
GEE
09-MAG-97 16:37
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S
ST.MARK'S OCCUPIED BY TERRORISTS...SECOND ADD (2)
He said the police action had shown that
recent separatist rumblings had not been under-estimated, but today's incident
could mean the police guard might have to be raised further.
In Rome, a majority of political reactions
called for swift action to grant more autonomy to local governments in the
north, but some, like opposition leader Silvio Berlusconi, blamed Bossi's
secessionist rhetoric for whipping up passions.
Berlusconi said the end result was that
''the less strong, the less intelligent, the most exposed'' would end up paying
for Bossi's ''propaganda.''
Leading members of the Northern League
described the incident as ''halfway between a schoolboy prank and violent
intimidation,'' while one of the founders of the Venetian separatist Liga
Veneta said the gang's action was ''understandable, but not to be endorsed.''
Members of the leftwing PDS party called
for a ''mobilisation'' against secession, while PDS leader Massimo D'Alema
called on Bossi to come back to the table of the institutional reform talks
D'Alema is chairing.
(MORE).
GEE
09-MAG-97 16:37
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S
ST.MARK'S OCCUPIED BY TERRORISTS...SECOND ADD (3)
Bossi stalked out of the talks when they
were set up, declaring that he would have no truck with Rome political
''horse-trading.''
In other reactions, Green party MP Marco
Boato recalled that Italy's terrorism in the 70s and 80s, whether on the right
or left, grew out of such ''symbolic and '' incidents as today's.
(END).
RED
09-MAG-97 17:45
NNN
GEN: COMMUNIQUE
DEMANDS RELEASE OF VENICE ACTIVISTS
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - A leaflet
demanding the release of the eight separatist activists who occupied the bell
tower in St Mark's square in Venice early today was sent to the Ansa offices in
Rome today.
The message said that if the eight were
not released within 48 hours ''we will respond to the violence of the Italian
occupiers in such a way as to discourage any other attempt to violate our
rights.''
The note was handed to magistrates
investigating this morning's assault, who said they could not exclude the
possibility that it was genuine.
If so it was a cause of concern since it
suggested that there was a larger organization behind the eight men.
The message accused the authorities of
beating the eight activists and putting them in isolation cells.
PAR
09-MAG-97 21:32
NNNTo: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Rinaldo Rasa
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Gerry Nicosia
wrote:
> May 9,
1997
>
> I suggest we make Rinaldo Rasa Poet
Laureate of the Beat List. If
>we don't save
Jack Kerouac's archive, his great cut-up poem of May 4 may be
>the best
thing to come out of all these years of struggle.
> Rinaldo, piacere di fare la vostra
conoscenza! Mio padre era
>siciliano,
non ciprioto! Di quale parte d'italia
lei vene?
> (Forgive my rusty Italian.)
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
Ciao Gerry,
i miei migliori
amici sono calabresi e baresi, sono proprio dalle tue parti. Sono ONORATO della
Laurea di Poeta Beat che tu proponi per la mia modesta partecipazione alla
lista beat.
Ti ringrazio con
affetto, e riconoscenza. Io abito a Venezia, nella parte moderna, ma
vicinissima al centro storico, appena prima del Ponte della Liberta'. Come ogni
buon italiano anch'io ho avuto e ho parenti per il mondo, in Canada,
SouthAfrica, Svizzera, et cetera. Da quando scrivo sulla Beat-List pero' di
italiani ne ho visti pochi, chissa' perche'? My today venice post is assuming
that the "happening" or countercultural, or ethnic event in Piazza
San Marco is a feedback 'bout some changin' in italian feeling of the things,
the guys involved in such "happening" (read please the ANSA report)
are really people that came from the land, the plane land of our italy, people
not lit or politicians... are them beat?
Hai nostalgia
dell'Italia? e della Sicilia?
ti saluta con
affetto il tuo "paesano" Rinaldo.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
i am dumb!
i am dumb!To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: commie
or beat?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970510105159_-164231775@emout02.mail.aol.com>
References:
WHEN THE NEST IS EMPTY rants
Oh where are the beats where you need them?
Welcome to the club
where everybody cares
WHO u are
>oh where are
the communists where you need them? i
>hatecapitalism...
>
>
>~jeanne
>
CHILDREN RETURN TO No 10
For the first time in nearly 50 years
children were preparing to move into 10
Downing Street
The children attended a lunch at
Downing Street to celebrate their
victory.
Peeper's pence
said he
would punish himself by
halving his salary for six
month's for peeping into a
women's bath.
ANTIGANG PLEA
TO CHILDREN
FROM DEATH ROW
I never felt
remorse.
That was the
madness of it.
Roland Topor,
french writer, died of a stroke in Paris aged 59. he was born on january 7,
1938.
considered a
mediocre stu-
dent
Topor's books were of all kinds, they ranged
from Alice in the Letterland, a children
book
dedicated to Lewis Carroll, through a joke
book
with
one
word
per
page
his own death
after several days in a coma
following a brain haemorrhage
only half confirms one of
the aphorism
in
his recent book
"All's true that ends badly, &
quickly."
i haven't lost
anyone yet
LITTLE VENICE
2 BED WHITE
STUCCO WHITE
PICTORESQUE
CANAL
plants which
grew in the
churchyard
were thuoght to
be
especially
powerfull
Rinaldo
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
i am dumb!To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (rants)
i'm a dumb dummy beet beat
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:28:13 EDT
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
>Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Timothy, what
a wonderful idea! 100 messages x 250 or
so a day. Just remember
>to reply
directly to Rinaldo not to the list.
>
>
be beet! be
beat!! be bee!!! be!
Good Sunday time,
Bill & Timothy,
i take a just
week to reply to th
e above sentence,
'cuz of i must
have
loooooooooooooong period for
a serious
reflexion 'bout the flo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
(thnx L. for the
suggestion...),n
w, now, my cells
brain in a week
are diminished,
& perhaps the rep
ly is better, i'm
wonder to any
person invited
some
body to crash
my email box,
particu
larly a beat.
there's who
thinks i'm tempted to
crash the
beat-list server? to hac
k the listserver
or destroy the li
st? the above
sentence written by
Bill seems in
this way, & don't
in my opinion
knows what really is
communicate,
writing even a zillion
of posts to the
Beat-List really a
matter of life,
of heart not only
spread light ray
trhu fibre to &
from the ocean,
& u are'nt consider
ing this purpose
of the list, U had
invited a beat to
destroy a mailbox
of another beat!
what's etichs is
that?
RANTS by a not competent beat
dummy-run
is dumb,
dummy-run
is bum
dumb is
dummy
dum is
bum
yrs rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (don't
read this if u are'nt italian)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
cari beat,
ci sono degli
italiani sulla Beat-List, se si' mandatemi un reply
rinaldo@gpnet.it
grazie in
anticipo da
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: una
poesia per Gerald Nicosia
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199705110538.WAA23046@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
References:
Cari amici beat,
Toto' il
grandissimo attore napoletano, interprete di numerosi bellissimi film e' anche
un poeta ecco una sua poesia in dialetto napoletano
'O sole by
Antonio De Curtis in arte Toto'
Io songo nato addo' sta 'casa 'o sole.
'O sole me cunosce 'a piccerillo;
'o primmo vaso 'nfronte - ero tantillo -
m'ha dato quanno stevo 'int' 'o spurtone.
E m'ha crisciuto dint' 'e braccia soje,
scanzanname 'a malanne e malatie.
'O sole! 'O sole... e' tutt'a vita mia...
Io senza 'o sole nun pozzo campa'.
--------------------
i hope Gerry has
no difficulties
to understand the
beatific feeling
of the Toto'
verses
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199705110008.RAA28975@calvin.usc.edu>
References:
>At 06:53 PM
5/10/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>i am
dumb!
>>
>>
>
>congratulations! you win!
>
>
>xxxooos.a.
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Get off
the net and get smart then!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:54:54 -0600
>Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Waste not,
want NOT!!!! Get off the net and get smart then!
>
>
i appreciate yr
opinion sir...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: your
mail
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.94.970510204212.1796C-100000@seka.nacs.net>
References:
<m0wQFOt-000rF2C@gpnet.it>
At 20.50 10/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>On Sat, 10
May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> i am
dumb!
>
>i am
birdbrain!
>
>
>Was downtown
(Cleveland) today for first meeting of Linux user's group, got
>out at noon and
wife & I drove past rockhall to see Kesey etc. Nothing
>really going
on (it'd rained all morning and was dark & gloomy) but some
>band was
playing in front of the building to about 150 people, mostly
>neohippies
and family yuppie types. No sign of new magic bus, Pranksters or
>Kesey. Went
home.
>
>Drove back
into town later in afternoon to stop by local music rag office
>and pick up
this month's review CDs; drove again past rockhall -- this time
>it wasn't
raining and no Kesey or Pranksters or bus, didn't get that close
>this time but
still had camera and thought about taking a picture of one of
>the many
day-glo yellow CLINTON SUCKS stickers plastered on telephone poles
>down East 9th
Street, main drag of town, last November election time which
>nobody since
has bothered to remove ... but was sick with headache too bad to
>get out of
the car, barely made it home, got a slow-leaking flat on one of
>my tires and
plan on drinking red wine tonight. Hope someone else has a
>better Kesey
story, 'cause I feel rotten today.
>
>m
>
Kesey story is
life!To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: mother's
day
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 05:10:46 -0500
>Reply-To: race@midusa.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Subject: mother's day
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>wishing all
the Mother's on this list a very Happy day !!!
>
>david rhaesa
>
me too,
my mother
born
in 1926
in
green
mountains
in
the
italian
alpine
lands
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: refrain
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970511170555.0068dd8c@pop.tiac.net>
References:
Cari amici beat,
nella mia mente
si aggira questo ritornello
refrain
my darling child
my darling baby
my darling child
my darling baby
like a swing...
ripetuto
all'infinito,
ricorda la madre,
alla quale Giuseppe Ungaretti, the poet who stand up as friend with Allen
Ginsberg, dedica una poesia bellissima che ora trascrivo:
LA MADRE
1930
E il cuore quando d'un ultimo battito
Avra' fatto cadere il muro d'ombra,
Per condurmi, Madre, sino al Signore,
Come una volta mi darai la mano.
In ginocchio, decisa,
Sarai una statua davanti all'Eterno,
Come gia' ti vedeva
Quando eri ancora in vita.
Alzerai tremante le vecchie braccia,
Come quando spirasti
Dicendo: Mio Dio, eccomi.
E solo quando m'avra' perdonato,
Ti verra' desiderio di guardarmi.
Ricorderai d'avermi atteso tanto,
E avrai negli occhi un rapido sospiro.
i hope there's
an american
translation
of this
wonder poem,
yr rinaldo. To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Teardrops,
photographed by Robert Frank.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.970513125048.31530A-100000@camphor>
References:
<970427001803_-831476971@emout02.mail.aol.com>
PRANKSTERS DON'T TEARS FLOWERS
NIGGHTIME
lontano, molti anni sono passati,
noi stiamo diventano cose,
fiori, flowers, le nostre cellule cerebrali,
our brain cells, diminished,
diminuiscono, praksters are own flowers,
la finestra di Robert Frank's photo, guarda,
look at,
grandma's doilies,
blur windows glass,
un'auto aspetta sul courtyard,
boys, go!, it's 15th august,
l'auto corre, the grass on both side of the
highway,
go! Padua, Bologna, Florence, Rome, Naples,
Siracusa, Francofonte, Taormina, l'Etna
smokin'
in the old times, furious dog chase barking
under olives branches
like thunder,
the ferrari runs as quick as a lightnin'
grandama calls rinaldo, look at the sirs!,
the top of the Volcano, qualche pietra
raccolta,
Salvatore corre come un pazzo
lungo il side of the Volcano,
look at in the down there's the snow!,
great! IT'S summer,
noi stiamo diventando cose,
we're turnin' into things,
like grandam doilies
like xeroexes, like photos, like sound
tracks of
Jimmi Hendrix, like everything,
keep me head
in my hands
fuzzy bats & owles,
near my house,
look at the teardrops,
smell the ancient room,
where black dressed woman
talked ancient stories
tonight my grandma
had planted me
as
potato in the yard.
yr rinaldo
*the dumb*
*the beet*To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Leni
Riefenstahl Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
cari beat,
Leni
is 90 years old lady,
after the year
zero...
in the Hitler's bunker in
Berlin,
Leni Riefenstahl
directed the
documentary movie
"Chaput is Kaput!" the move was archived by the "Enigma Blob
U.S.A. Force"
now when Leni is 90 years old
the Beat-List
recalls this great piece...
Om is as i AM
yrs rinaldo
p.s.
Om Om Om OM OM OM i
om om om om am i Am
mo mo mo mo the hare is a HARE
a hare is a HARE a hare is a hare
a beet is a beet
a bee is
a bee Am i Am i Om i Om
oh a great HARE is knoking to my
door...
* THE (a) not competent beat
tears are in my eyes *
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
horror of ken going furthur
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:09:26 -0500
>Reply-To: race@midusa.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Moritz
Rossbach wrote:
>>
>> hi zach , i really enjoied reading your post!
>> did you
go on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
>> just
curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
>>
tripping? oh man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
>> i even
had to talk to them!
>>
>>
--------------sincerely
>> moritz rossbach
>> saarbruecken, germany
>> moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
>>
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
>>
>> ..and i tell you things that you allready
know, so you can say:
>> "i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
>>
-Henry Rollins: Liar
>>
>> On Tue,
13 May 1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
>>
>> >
david rhaesa said:
>> >
>i ain't certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>> >
>it seems your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
>> >
>us..... :)
>> >
>> > oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
>> >
what i was saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
>> >
kids welling up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
>> >
hopefully they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
>> >
just different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
>> >
back in the 60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
>> >
war), and i don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
>> >
gov't side tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
>> > the
90s, what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
>> >
abortion? aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
>> >
cults: Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
>> >
Trade Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
>> > a
march against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
>> > a 3
day war that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
>> >
pickett signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
>> >
iraqis in the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
>> >
bunkers that we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
>> > our
faithful soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
>> >
that's really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
>> >
not, don't bother).
>> > So
i have a lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
>> >
those involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
>> > to
drive my generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
>> > the
next $%&^# Batman movie.
>> > but
oh well. i rant. apaologies.
>> >
>> >
-zach
>> > i'm
all for it.
>> >
>> > -z
>> >
>
>the key in
meeting people is simple....count to five between reacting to
>anything. and remember the street isn't swirling up
like a tornado to
>them and they
can't imagine that it is for you :)
>
>but be
careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
>for twenty
years or something. ... unless you want to.
:)
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
Leni Riefenstahl
is filming yr performance mates....To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jack
Kerouac (read by Johnny Depp)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<s379adda.026@mail.campbell-mithun.com>
References:
Mexico City Blues
"Chorus
113"
Jack Kerouac
(read by Johnny
Depp)
Got up and
dressed up
went out &
got laid
Then died and got
buried
a coffin in the
grave,
Man --
Yet everything is
perfect,
Because it is
empty,
Because it is
perfect
with emptiness,
Because it's not
even happening.
Everything
Is Ignorant of
its own emptiness--
Anger
Doesn't like to
be reminded of fits--
You start with
the Teaching
Inscrutable of
the Diamond
And end with it,
your goal
is your
startingplace,
No race was run,
no walk
of prophetic
toenails
Across Arabies of
hot
meaning you
just--
numbly don't get
there
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Leni
Riefenstahl a woman in photography
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970514114650_1457705917@emout19.mail.aol.com>
References:
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/leni/leni/leni.html
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
korror of hen foing gurthur
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Zach,
>
>I fail to see
how the buccolic Wisconsin bashes you describe (which
>sound great
to me) are fundamentally different than the Human Be-In.
>
>Everything is
the same. Everything is different.
>
>J Stauffer
>
>
in italy the
lotto game is a must!
BARI 57 27 05 30 42
CAGLIARI 52 19 18 85 73
FIRENZE 52 23 90 51 73
GENOVA 85 43 71 48 22
MILANO 16 55 57 10 12
NAPOLI 80 06 71 78 26
PALERMO 53 19 87 44 55
ROMA 31 51 54 81 08
TORINO 46 86 37 18 02
VENEZIA 79 86 49 73 88
yrs beetTo:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The Beat
experience CDROM 1995 edition
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
cari amici beat,
"The Red Hot
Organization" has created in 1995 a CD ROM called "THE BEAT
EXPERIENCE", $39.95, i have seen the software in a bookstore/musicstore,
this cdrom is sold by VOYAGER 1 Bridge St Irvington NY 10533-9919, have someone
listen 'bout this cdrom,
in yr opinion
it's a worth purcase, please tell me, 'cuz of i'm really a beetle (what a hot
day today!, here in italy!)
yrs Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Flammable
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
I Vagadondi del Dharma.
A Han-Sahan (who
is?)
1.
Saltato su un
treno merci che partiva da Los Angeles in pieno mezzogiorno d'una giornata di
fine settembre del 1955 presi posto su un carro aperto e mi straiai col mio
sacco a spalla sotto la testa a gambe accavallate e contemplai le nuvole mentre
correvamo a nord verso Santa Barbara. Era un treno locale e la mia intenzione
era di dormire quella notte sulla spiaggia di Santa Barbara e salire la mattina
dopo su un altro treno locale fino a San Luis Obispo oppure su un merci
espresso che arrivava direttamente a San Francisco alle sette di sera.
All'altezza di
Camarillo, dove Charlie Parker, impazzito, era stato ricoverato e restituito
alla normalita',....
ma quello che incontri but what you meet
è realmente un'esperienza? is really
an experience?
Parker è rosso Parker is red
come un crepuscolo like a twilight
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
STARSPOTTING Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>
>and
photocopiers are hell ....
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
THE Spice Girls sang live last night
for the first time on a stage to show
they can perform their complicated
harmonies without the aid of backing
tapes.
yrs rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: OUT OF
THE DARKNESS
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"Bernard
show believed that
the British
Libray was the only
successful
socialist demoscracy in the
world which
treated readers equally,
was paid for out
of redistribuited tax
and run on
non-profit-making principles."
*Cats appear to
be the only domestic animals permitted to stray at will on public land &
private property other than that of their owners*
yrs Rinaldo.
* 1 2 3 tutti
giu'! *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 1977
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
http://www.taonet.it/77web/To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
counterculture its dawn
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Divenire delle
culture creative
La fenomenologia
delle culture creative contiene un complesso sistema di riferimenti che
rinviano alle avanguardie storiche, al maoismo, ma anche alla filosofia hippy,
all'orientalismo degli anni Sessanta, all'utopismo felice e comunitario,
connesso con la pessimistica profezia della Teoria critica.
Nel corso degli
anni Sessanta due tendenze avevano dato forma alle culture cosiddette
giovanili: la tendenza a considerare I'avvenire con sicurezza e fiducia, ad
accettare il modello di sviluppo economico e tecnologico che sembrava destinato
ad essere illimitato e irreversibile E poi vi era la tendenza che possiame
definire "controculturale: questa non metteva sostanzialmente in questione
la certezza di uno sviluppo lineare, ma si limitava a rifiutarne le conseguenze
di integrazione culturale e di appiattimento esistenziale, rifiutava
l'omologazione e la perdita di libertá che la societá dei consumi determinava.
Il movimento
controculturale (hippy, antimperialista, movimento delle comuni, movimento
studentesco) era strettamente connesso alla societá del benessere, ne era
I'altra faccia.
Ma ecco che con
gli anni Settanta il quadro economico e politico muta: la crisi rompe la
fiducia nel futuro, e l'orizzonte non appare rassicurante: le identitá
personali e collettive del decennio precedente (che siano integrate o ribelli)
debbono ridisegnarsi su un altro panorama, su un'altra attesa di futuro.
Non c'é dubbio
che la data piú significativa di questo rovesciamento di scenari e di
percezione é il '77.
Il '77 é un anno
carico di significato per le culture giovanili in tutto l'occidente: é l'anno
in cui il punk esplode a Londra, ed i Sex Pistols sfidano la polizia e la
monarchia con i loro concerti provocatori, nel giorno dei festeggiamenti per la
Regina. Ed é l'anno in cui si verificano le prime grandi manifestazioni
antinucleari, a Malville ed a Brokdorf.
I movimenti
rivoluzionari erano stati portatori di una speranza e di un'ideologia fiduciosa
e organica; i movimenti che si manifestano in quell'anno sono invece il segno
del rifiuto e del rigetto della modernitá, segnalano piuttosto disperazione per
lo scenario creato dalla crisi e dall'emergere delle nuove tecnologie, che una
speranza nel progresso tecnologico ed economico.
Un'intera
prospettiva storica si rovescia, le culture giovanili registrano questo
rovesciamento nel '77: dall'espansione della societá industriale si passa alla
sua crisi, e inoltre il progresso industriale comincia a mostrare le sue
tendenze catastrofiche. Il rovesciamento della prospettiva é anche segnato
dalla transizione alla societá dominata dall'elettronica, dalla freddezza
tecnologica e dall'arroganza competitiva, dall'onnipotenza dello spettacolo e
dell'informazione.
I giovani che
vengono sulla scena dopo il '77 sono in effetti ben diversi da quelli che li
avevano preceduti: essi sono gli spettatori del crollo dei miti sociali del
moderno: la crisi di prospettiva della societá moderna appare loro come il
venir meno di ogni possibilitá di futuro. Il punk é, in questo senso, la lucida
consapevolezza di un mutamento epocale.
Visto su questo
sfondo, il '77 italiano acquista una partioclare densitá: in quell'anno si
sommano gli effetti di una prolungata stagione di lotte operaie e di una
esplosione culturale di movimenti di rivolta dei disoccupati e dei giovani, di
tutti coloro che si sentono minacciati dal nuovo assetto produttivo che si
intravvede all'orizzonte del postindustriale.
Il movimento del
'77 in Italia sintetizza tutte le differenti facce della controcultura
giovanile: l'anima politica di stampo maoista, l'aggressivitá guerrigliera si
mescolano con il creativismo di chiara derivazione hippy: e tutto questo
finisce per sfociare nella cupa e disperata rappresentazione del primo emergere
del punk.
Mentre nei mesi
caldi della primavera del '77 (quando esplosero le rivolte di piazza a Bologna
e a Roma) il tono predominante era quello della speranza messianica, della
fiducia euforica in una comunitá liberata, nella costruzione di zone liberate,
nei mesi successivi, dopo l'impatto con la durezza della repressione e
soprattutto con la spietata logica dell'emraginazione , della disoccupazione,
della competitivitá, divenne predominante il tono disperato e autodistruttivo,
il sentimento del sopravvenire di un'epoca disumana in cui tutti i valori di
solidarietá sarebbero stati cancellati.
In questo senso
possiamo dire che il '77 fu al contempo una sintesi degli anni Sessanta e
Settanta, ed una cupa premonizione degli anni Ottanta.
Dopo il '77
vennero ad emergenza in maniera diffusa quelle tendenze che caratterizzano il
comportamento della popolazione giovanile nei cosiddetti anni del
"riflusso": si modificano gli atteggiamenti e le motivazioni verso il
lavoro, gli atteggiamenti verso ilprocesso di socializzazione, il bisogno di
comunitá e il gusto estremistico e sprezzante per la propira solitudine
orgogliosa. E infine matura in quel momento il passaggio dalle fome culturali
improntate al collettivismo e allégualitarismo verso le forme che sono dominate
dall'individualismo.
Il '77
rappresenta una critica di ogni investimento psicologico sul futuro, e la
rivendicazione di un'immanenza senza residui, di un vivere nel presente che non
lascia spazio alle ideologie né alle attese. Nella cultura del '77
l'insurrezione é un atto tutto presente, un atto che vale la sua immediatezza e
non per il futuro che deve instaurare. Su questo rifiuto dell'investimento nel
futuro si fonda anche la critica che la cultura del'77 rivolse alla militanza
politica tradizionale.
Bisogna vivere
subito la felicitá, e non proporsela per il futuro post-rivoluzionario. Ma se
vediamo le cose in prospettiva, con gli occhi della successiva esperienza, ci
rendiamo conto del fatto che l'immanentismo felice del '77, la rivendicazione
di un futuro integrale da vivere pienamente altro non é che l'anticipazione del
"no future" del punk, che subito dopo il tramonto della bruciante
esperienza del '77 dilaga nella coscienza giovanile. Non bisogna attendersi
nulla dal futuro perché non c'é futuro per i valori umani, per la solidarietá,
la libertá, il piacere di vivere.
Il futuro apparve
improvvisamente segnato dagli spettri della militarizzazione, della violenza,
del conformismo, della miseria. E in effetti dopo il '77 che gli investimenti
militari aumentano spaventosamente e il clima della guerra fredda riprende in
concomitanza con l avittoria di Reagan; é dopo il '77 che un'ondata di
licenziamenti si abbatte sugli operai in tutto l'Occidente industriale, e le
nuove tecnologie mettono fuori gioco milioni di posti di lavoro facendo della
disoccupazione giovanile un dato strutturale ineliminabile.
Il futuro appare
arido e deserto; e in effetti é a partire da quel momento che sul mercato dell
droga fa la sua comparsa massiccia l'eroina, ed é anche il momento in cui,
costretti a trovare uno spazio nel mondo della deregulation e della concorrenza
spietata fra disoccupati, fanno la loro ricomparsa individualismo e
competizione, producendo una crisi profonda delle forme di comunitá solidale
degli anni precedenti.
Insomma, é in
quel momento che cambia lo scenario: ma esso cambia soprattutto nel sistema di
attese e di immaginazioni possibili del futuro. Cambia, cioé, nella mente
sociale, nella percezione culturale, fino a rinchiudersi cupamente
nell'omologazione conformista ed anestetizzante degli anni Ottanta dispiegati.
(PRIMO
MORONI/NANNI BALESTRINI - L'ORDA D'ORO - SugarCo 1988 )To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ALLEN
GINSBERG IS ALIVE IN THE NET
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Siti e documenti
su Allen Ginsberg e sulla sua opera
Ma il Beat
sopravvive in Rete
di ENRICO M.
FERRARI
Il "seme e
la sorgente" della Beat Generation, come è stato definito Allen Ginsberg
su un sito americano, sopravvive online, e con lui la sua cultura. Subito dopo
l'aggravarsi delle condizioni di salute di Ginsberg, i maggiori siti a lui
dedicati o collegati sono usciti con bollettini speciali che ne hanno scandito
le ultime ore di vita.
Wired dedica alla
scomparsa del padre del Beat un lungo servizio ricco di fatti sulla vita e
l'opera di Ginsberg.
Uno dei punti
principali, pieno di foto, scritti e link su Ginsberg, è la pagina di Mongo
Bearwolf. Una sorta di epitaffio virtuale è presente su questa pagina, in
perfetto stile Beat.
Literary Kicks
dedica svariate pagine a Ginsburg e alle sue opere: è presente una bibliografia
dei lavori di Ginsberg, http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Lists/GinsbergWorks.html
ed una bibliografia dei lavori su Ginsberg stesso,
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Biblio/GinsbergBiblio.html
L'FBI aveva
aperto diverse inchieste su Ginsberg : nel sito Allen Ginsberg's FBI Files è
possibile ritrovare tracce di quelle indagini.
The Beat
Generation Archive presenta un vasto archivio sul mondo beat: articoli, foto e
link a personaggi o protagonisti del movimento.
Nella
"bhoemian page" dedicata a Ginsberg è presente una completa biografia
del poeta, con il lungo dispaccio Associated Press che ne annuncia la morte.
Famose e numerose
sono le interviste di Ginsberg, tutte presenti sulla rete , ma sparse per
numerosi siti: La celebre intervista "Ginsberg goes bananas" è tratta
da Seconds Magazine, Hot Press presenta una intervista denominata "Ma il
beat avanza..". Mark Amerika, "columnist" di Internet, dedica a
Ginsberg il pezzo Amerika Online,
In occasione
dell'intervento di Ginsberg al club Megatripolis di Londra, 19 ottobre 1995,
Lee Harris, dedica un servizio a Ginsberg.
The Poetry of
Allen Ginsberg raccoglie i lavori di Ginsberg tratti da "Howl and other
poems," del 1956 e del 1959.
Altri lavori
online si possono trovare su HotWired e sul sito Harry Smith.
Una completa
scelta di titoli su Ginsberg, libri e CD, è disponibile su Amazon con i prezzi
di ogni singolo articolo.
Una mailing list
sul beat è rintracciabile presso:
gopher://dept.english.upenn.edu:70/00/Lists/20th/beat-l
Il newsgroup che
si occupa di beat generation è: news:alt.books.beatgeneration
http://sun2.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/rassegna/rassegna.htmlTo:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: FROM
ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM ITALY with love.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
>i'm sorry,
but this is an english-speaking list. nobody can read this.
>
>please limit
your posts to the english language.
>
>On Thu, 15
May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> Divenire
delle culture creative
[snipped/tagliuzzato/cut]
>>
>Michael Stutz
Michael, i ask
pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!, are u interested in the
UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?
i hope the answer
is yes!
*
my poor signature
is Pooh Bear a not competent beetle-beet-bee-be-bo-beat or a starspotting on
the Beat-List...
or in the beat
scene... vi prego se scrivo in italiano cerco di scrivere anche more in
american but sometime the time to translate a thought stress my spontaneous
email prose & tooke me a great piece of time... sorry Michael Stutz. how
can i do? i must became a dumb? why u not learn some italian? (a chance).
*
*awright derek
& others Han-Shan is the real beetthing! * *thnxlt*
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: PLEASE,
DON'T READ THIS (the dark side of a beet)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<9705160710.AA24843@ellensburg.com>
References:
dear friends
beat,
everything is
a-perfect, i'm a-perfect, u're a-perfect, why the death of a mosquito is
a-perfect? why u are pulling the screw in the coffin, dark shame in the ground,
BROTHERS who loves a beet?, keep my head in the hands, come faccio a scrivere
ancora e ancora e ancora... Red Charlie pop up Parker, red twilight, rosso
tramonto veneziano, i read JK in american or in italian, how many JK there are
in the worlds, cage is on the street... Red Cage... go on!To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: DON'T
READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
K E R O U A C
IL DOTTOR SAX
Libro primo
FANTASMI DELLA NOTTE
DI PAWTUCKETVILLE
1
L'altra notte ho
sognato che stavo seduto sul mar- ciapede di Moody Street, Pawtucketville,
Lowell, Massachusetts,... Qui a farmez ma porte? Parsonne voyons donc.
GOD READS THIS.
DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE,
DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, GOD
READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.
DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE,
DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS. thake me by hand, GOD,
around the midnight, GOD i send u a letter, GOD if ever u read this, WHY U
CREATES MYSELF?, WHY I BORN?, THIS DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
THIS DON'T READ,
PLEASE fantasmi agghiaccianti, fredde, COLD, streets italiane, tears,
cerchietti, bracelets, ASE, GOD READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.T
READ, PL DON'T READ, PLEASE, god thake by hand Pakistani, WHY I BORN? WHY I
BORN? WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN? god thake by hand OLD
wo/men, god thake by hand pacemaker's lawyer, god thake by hand that tatoo
GIRL, god thake by hand by handby handby handby hand
WHY I BORN? WHY I RAT?
WHY I CLOUD? WHY I SQUEKING?
WHY? WHY? ever read me!
R I N A L D O
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: A
mute voice on the Estate Battl
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970517150805.24212A-100000@crystal.palace.net>
References:
<BEAT-L%97051619280949@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Bien c'est pas'l
diable plesant.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Truth!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020903afa3eaa3973a@[141.224.144.84]>
References:
<970516180816_-130076203@emout15.mail.aol.com>
hey,
De Vito in the
cuckoo nest is a must, mybe reconsider the beat experience? De Vito is a
beat?.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Truth
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199705180317.UAA26106@freya.van.hookup.net>
References:
this white
sky blur
myself
> Truth is an ethereal entity.
>
James M.
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Truth
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<9705181529.AA10833@jane.penn.com>
References:
a Pakistan screms
in the bed!
the hearth is
lost,
my god, we're u?
At 11.25 18/05/97
-0500, you wrote:
>forever
blunder
>salvage
>f o r g e t
>the blue
>
>----------
>: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>: Subject:
Re: Truth
>: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
>:
>: this white
>: sky blur
>: myself
>:
>:
>: > Truth is an ethereal entity.
>: >
James M.
>: >
>: >
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Svevo on Joyce
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03007801afa4c6dc0647@[156.46.45.83]>
References:
<01BC62ED.CCD7D7C0@sea-ts3-p28.wolfenet.com>
la coscienza di
zeno e' stato un libro nel quale lo scrittore creava in talia le teorie di
freud e forse nei sogni dreams e nella scrittura dei sogni draem-writing versus
creative writing is a lot of sensoe in the middle of an elevator that's stopped
in the middle of a building...
yrs rinaldo.
* a beet *
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
fudge wont budge : helped myself too ; more apologies.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.95q.970520211752.18928A-100000@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk>
References:
<l03020902afa72fb58d50@[206.25.67.128]>
>> >>
>> >so the steering column spins
>> >>
>twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
>> >one
hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
>> >half
conscious woman yelping
>>
>" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
>>
>words&booze
>>
>"pack it sez the bird
>> > but
the fudge
>> >
won't budge," she laughs to herself;
>> >>
>being quite comfortable with the flock
>> >>
>> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!
>> >>
>> >: the hearth is lost,
>> >>
>> >: my god, we're u?
>> >>
>> w/the f.o.'s singing
>> >>
>> god is
>> >>
>never quite
>> >>
>> dead
>> >>
>just sleeping, snoring and
>> >>
>schleping
>> >>
>> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the
bar
>>
>ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing
>> >the
bartender,
>> >>
>> >: >salvaging
>> >>
>> >: >f o r g e t.me nots
>> >for
his lapel
>> >>
> the blue: a massage then a
>> >>
>> deeper massage :
>> >>
"don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as
the
>> >bed
vibrates
>>
>magic
>>
>fingers
>> >>
>> >: >:
"this white
>> >>
>> >: >:
sky blur
>> >>
>> >: >:
myself"
>> >>
>> >: >: > Truth is an
unconscious entity.
>> >>
>but arent we all?
>> >>
>Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,
>> >>
hands limply at sides, mouth open
>> >
having been
>>
>passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
>> >>
>> ghosts of
Dean & Sammy order out for
>> >>
>> pizza
>> >>
>> the check's in the mail.
>> >>
>>
>> the music
begins & they take the stage
>>
>
once again.
>>
>> once
again
>> elvis
has left the building,
>> hounded
>> "you aint nuthin but-a"
>> holy
elvis speaks to me
>> virginia
woolf hands to me
>> the
selfsame rock
>> still
dripping from the thames..
>> and off
the off-beaten paths
>>
>-but for once
the rain stops
> because
altho'
> i have rust
under my fingernails,
> elvis is rapidly
running out of buildings
> the checks
don't even bounce very high
> and i can no
longer tell whether I am overweight
> or otherwise
> because
despite
> rattletrap
due rent
> peeling
carapace from
> crick neck
staring at
> high tide
marks
> lost dog of
an old
> city
>
> because
despite : we have been around
> been about
to hear the right stories
> the right
people ; electric current.
> faraway
lights.
> we have at
least learned mythology.
>
> so nothing
new, just prosaic :
> I'll meet
you in the botanical gardens,
> and it'll be
just the same as always ;
> what is
more, if it's not
> we have at
least learned how to pretend.
>
>
I'M WALKIN'
i am walking
the man has
with him a shopping bag
i am walking i am walking
he crunched the apple
the man has crunched the apple
i'm walkin' i'm walkin' SIR my
soul is blur
MY SOUL IS BLUR sir GOD god of the dream
i'm walkin' i'm walkin' SIR my
soul is blur
give me a dream SIR do asleep myself
i'm walkin' i'm walkin'
i'm walkin' i'm walkin'
i am walking through corners of dream
corners of dream
i have not hide for myself behind corners in
a dream
mother
i'm walkin'
father
i'm walkin'
brother
i'm walkin'
sister
i'm walkin'
take a lunch with
your brother-- says still the mother
mother my brother is dead you know! u know!
take a lunch,
rinaldo!-- says still my mother
yes mother
yes mother
yes mother
these shining corners
in the dream
they tears
they tears
the man has crunched the apple
the man has crunched the apple
i'm walkin'
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: A
Found Poem
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199705210458.VAA14948@italy.it.earthlink.net>
References:
>Dear
Phil, May 20, 1997
>
> You and Anstee should both go far--and
the sooner you start, the better.
>
> HAHAHAHAHA!
> Gerry
>
>
Gerry, caro paesano,
ben detto!
Gli amici girano
per kilometri
secondo dopo secondo
alla fine del mondo.
Un saluto dall'Italia!
rinaldo *what's
happen to rinaldo?*
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: john
cage-haiku #1
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
tah toh tahh tohh
at 21:00
gronk gronk
at 21:01
clock
JOHN CAGE IS
ALIVE, HE IS TALKING... TO ME!
what is happened to me?
r\ i
\
n a\
\
l
\ d
\ o .
------------.......-----------
"Todas las
granas de arena del desierto de Chihuahua son vacuidad!" Jack Kerouac the
dharma bums
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: john
cage-haiku #2 (what is happened to me?)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
.,-\H a
,.i,\k..u
mahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
KKK
zen
Oooh, questo non lo sopporto!this doesn't
bear it
bum!
KKK
zen
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
WHEN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD IS FAST ASLEEP
Brrrrrrrrrrr!
brrr
KKK
Dostoevskij KKK bum! MUNCH bum! KKK Wu!
favelle favelle favelle
KKK KKK KKK
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: john
cage-Haiku, john cage is alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970521032654.00698900@pop.tiac.net>
References:
>The fudge
>Won't budge
>Try exlax
>
>
>
>(sorry I
couldn't resist)
>
>
.............oh.ah.............
.............ha.ho.............
.............o..a..............
.............a..o..............
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Brad
Parker Speaks
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>David wrote:
>>Patricia:
I'm lurking again on Beat-L. Must have missed all the recent
>>controversies.
What's happening?
>>
>>David
Ohle
>>
>i'm a
beatspotting...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome of day
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afa8a7fff61f@[206.25.67.109]>
References:
<33833A5E.65BD@sunflower.com>
<199705211711.KAA27453@sweden.it.earthlink.net> <33833015.6A68@sunflower.com>
<3382E102.3FAE@cjnetworks.com>
u are a'ngel
marie,
...
>6
>strictly
speaking, there is no me, because all is
>emptiness. i
am empty, i am non-existent
>
...
in a word
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: strange
quote from On The Road by Jack Kerouac
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afa8a7fff61f@[206.25.67.109]>
References:
<33833A5E.65BD@sunflower.com>
<199705211711.KAA27453@sweden.it.earthlink.net> <33833015.6A68@sunflower.com>
<3382E102.3FAE@cjnetworks.com>
---
"On The
Road" parte one II page #61 (circa)
"He arranged
to get me the same kind of job he had, as a guard in the barracks. I went
through the necessary routine, and to my surprise the bastars hired me. I was
sworn in the local police chief, given a badge, a club, and now I was a special
policeman".
---
tonite my mind is
back in 69 when i read this keroauc quote & was surprised that a
"rebel" as jack can get a job as policeman there was in november 69
reading OTR in a train in early morn when daylight were neon tube &
venetian hinterland fog was around thru the house & raindrops on the window
kerouac was only just dead & recognized as a symbol of the coutercultural
mob there was no place in the patter of an alternative hero he may be a
policeman 30 years later still this passage was recalled by a strange spark in
my dream/mind old times
yrs rinaldo * the beatspotting *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
foucault
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020902afa9320b2a40@[141.224.144.84]>
References:
<970521170636_2086251513@emout01.mail.aol.com>
At 17.14 21/05/97
-0600, you John wrote:
>>In a
message dated 97-05-21 17:02:41 EDT, you write:
>>
>>> my
favorite is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
>>
>>oh oh.
like the Magritte painting, no?
>
>Very
good! Hats off to you.
>
>John M.
>
>
john, as french
philosopher, focault, (not that in XIX siecle in the Eco novel...) he is a good
guy in the habitus of the 77 leftism as to free so called man mad hospitalized
in sad bulding ( in italy a great reformist was franco basaglia & he was
connected with foucalt thoghts, sad both are actually dead & the reform of
the asylum are to go back), sad others french philosopher has a tragic life,
e.g. louis althusser who was jaled after he strangled his wife without any
reason, the only was the madness that kept his mind, strange indeed bunch of
men who believed in such a word called utopia,
yrs rinaldo * a beatspotting *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: A
Found Poem
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199705212146.OAA17776@norway.it.earthlink.net>
References:
At 14.46 21/05/97
-0700, you Geraldo wrote:
>At 06:51 PM
5/21/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>>Dear
Phil, May 20, 1997
>>>
>>> You and Anstee should both go far--and
the sooner you start, the
>>better.
>>>
>>> HAHAHAHAHA!
>>> Gerry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Gerry, caro paesano,
>> ben detto!
>> Gli amici girano
>> per kilometri
>> secondo dopo secondo
>> alla fine del mondo.
>> Un saluto dall'Italia!
>>
>> rinaldo *what's happen to rinaldo?*
>>
>
>Caro Rinaldo, 21 maggio 1997
>
> Lei e molto gentile, e io ti ringrazio
con tutto il mio cuore!
> Spero ti vedere in California.
> Ciao, Geraldo
>
>
Caro Geraldo,
poi cucineremo in california una buonissima
pasta a fagioli come dio comanda!
All'italiana!
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
foucault
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970521170636_2086251513@emout01.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 17.06 21/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-21 17:02:41 EDT, you write:
>
>> my
favorite is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
>
>oh oh. like
the Magritte painting, no?
>
>
strane cose sono
accadute ai filosofi francesi che guidarono la controcultura negli anni
70...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
"a baneful influence"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970521163819_122146097@emout06.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 16.38 21/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Oh, come
on. Mean people suck...Where's your
sadistic, cynical nature?
>People suck
is a better statement. So don't be
tempted to join those damn
>optimists who
post smiley faces on every remaining square inch of property.
> Be a
mysanthrop. It's fun.
>
>
got a black hole
from Hawkings & enjoi...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Brad
Parker Speaks
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970521180010_2052707062@emout17.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 18.01 21/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>David:
>Good to see
you on the list. Charley will be passing through Lawrence in a
>few days.
>Pam
>
>
are u listening
doctor freud?To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Fare ye
well, crash the CLASH.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020902afa9320b2a40@[141.224.144.84]>
References:
<970521170636_2086251513@emout01.mail.aol.com>
15 years later
fare ye well
clash, awright!
i quote:
Hungry darkness of living
Who will thirst in the pit?
She spent a lifetime deciding
How to run from it
GHETTO DEFENDANT
COMBAT ROCK,
THE CLASH, 1982
yrs Rinaldo *a
beatspotting & a not competent beat & a beet*To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: question
'bout John Cage archives.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199705231623.AA282864597@lulu.acns.nwu.edu>
References:
At 10.37 23/05/97
-0500, Nick Weir-Williams wrote: ...
>himself. The
John Cage archives (or one third of them - he split up
>manuscripts,
correspondence, and other articles between three places) are at
>Northwestern
and are so meticulous and so organized and so easy for scholars
>to use.
...
gentle Nick,
i am very
interesting to John Cage archives, it is possible to connect & retrieve
documents through the internet? every feedback is welcome, my best greetings,
Rinaldo.
*24 may 1996. *
one year on the Beat-L * 24 may 1997*To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Ungaretti.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
References:
<"noralf.uib.646:25.05.97.04.02.54"@uib.no>
At 14.16 25/05/97
+0200, Nils-Oivind Haagensen wrote:
>Tra un fiore
colto e l'altro donato
>l'inesprimibile
vanita
>
>Fiore doppio
>nato in
grembo alla madonna
>della gioia
>
>Between a
flower gathered and the other given/ the inexpressible vanity/ /
>Double
flower/ born of the womb of our lady/ of joy
>
>
Caro Nils-Oivind
Haagensen, GRAZIE!,
grande citazione!
UNGARETTI! il grande poeta italiano di questo secolo, la poesia esattamente
recita:
---------------------------------------------------------------
ETERNO
Tra un fiore colto e l'altro donato
l'inesprimibile nulla
--- Giuseppe
Ungaretti, Ultime, Milano 1914-1915---------------
grazie e cari
saluti e buona domenica da Rinaldo Rasa.
NON GRIDATE PIU' di Giuseppe Ungaretti, da "I
Ricordi"
Cessate
d'uccidere i morti,
Non gridate piu',
non gridate
Se li volete
ancora udire,
Se sperate di non
perire.
Hanno
l'impercettibile sussurro,
non fanno piu'
rumore
Del crescere
dell'erba,
Lieta dove passa
l'uomo.
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
twister haiku
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
References:
<"noralf.uib.646:25.05.97.04.02.54"@uib.no>
\\ \\
i \\\\
have\
a \
\\ life\
but \
\ i \
can't \\ use \
it\\
\\\ \\\
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: AH I
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
References:
<"noralf.uib.646:25.05.97.04.02.54"@uib.no>
"There's just something about it which
allows me to write a certain way, like an
actual language style
which happens to be inspired as much by the
South as it by
Shakespeare or The Bible or whatever. But it
allows me to
write in the first person, and I felt this
way. And I write
'Ah' instead of 'I'"
Nick Cave.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: hipster
talk
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
References:
<"noralf.uib.646:25.05.97.04.02.54"@uib.no>
\\
.clonkk\
\
\\boff
blip\bleep
\ bop
beep\ \
clink\biff\
.
kerouac.
. described
. the
velocity life of the 20th century\\\ the not music .
by john cage ../
caught the sound of the
environment.
//.
clink\\
beeep
\\ bleep
bop\\
bliiip\\\\
\\
\
yrs
rinaldo
-Rust Never
Sleeps-
*
There's more the
picture
Than meets the
eye
*
(Neil Young &
Jeff Blackburn)
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Frank
O'Hara, a poetry.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970525141314.617A-100000@alfred.uib.no>
References:
<"noralf.uib.646:25.05.97.04.02.54"@uib.no>
"Why I Am Not A Painter" by Frank O'Hara
I am not a painter, I am a poet.
Why? I think I would rather be
a painter, but I am not. Well,
for instance, Mike Goldberg
is starting a painting. i drop
in
"Sit down and have a ddrink" he
says. I drink; we drink. I look
up. "You have SARDINES in it"
"Yes, it needed sometime there"
"Oh." I go and days go by
and I drop in again. The painting
is going on, and I go, and the
days
go by, I drop in. The painting is
finished. "Where's SARDINES?"
All that's left is just
letters, "It was too much", Mike
says.
But me? One day I am thinking of
a color: orange. I write a line
about orange. Pretty soon it is a
whole page of words, not lines.
Then another page. There should
be
so much more, not of orange, of
words, of how terrible orange is
and life. Days go by. It is even
in
prose, I am a real poet. My poem
is finished and I haven't
mentioned
orange yet. It's twelve poems, I
call
it ORANGES. And one day in a
gallery
I see Mike's painting, called
SARDINES.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: SAMPAS
WHO? Re: a calm request
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199705260519.WAA07591@sweden.it.earthlink.net>
References:
At 22.19 25/05/97
-0700, Gerry wrote:
>..., it has
nothing to do with
>>his
archieves, its a damn pissing contest/whose got the bigger balls and
>>the rest
of the nonsense. Its pure bullshit. Get off your ego trip and
>>realize THAT truth.
>>
>>
>>Lisa M.
Rabey
>Dear
Lisa, May 25, 1997
>
> I am here on the Beat-List only because
of the need to preserve Jack
>Kerouac's
archives. It has turned into a pissing
contest because that is
>what Mr.
Chaput and Mr. Anstee wanted it to become.
They have effectively
>killed the
discussion of what Sampas is doing with the archives and why, if
>he really
intends to put them into a library, he has not signed even a
>statement of
intention in 6 years. They don't want me
talking about things
>like that, so
they call me names and accuse me of various crimes, and then I
>answer them
back, etc. etc.
> Well here's my deal, Lisa, I'll just
quite answering their bullshit
>charges, and
just keep posting the truth as I see it.
Maybe some day
>someone from
"the other side" will appear to argue this thing out
>rationally,
and give us some hard facts about what Mr. Sampas is doing and
>plans to
do--rather than just calling me names and saying what a bad person
>I am.
> By the way, Paul Maher's list from the
NY Public Library shows that
>they do not
own all the versions of even one Kerouac book (published or
>unpublished). A scholar who analyzes a work needs
everything from the first
>notes thru
first second and third drafts, and then the galleys. Kerouac
>typed several
versions of every published book. The NY
Public has acquired
>only early
notebook drafts of some individual books, and they have not even
>one complete
version of Kerouac's seven most important books: ON THE ROAD,
>THE DHARMA
BUMS, DR. SAX, VISIONS OF GERARD, VISIONS OF CODY, VANITY OF
>DULUOZ, and
DESOLATION ANGELS.
> This is what we should be talking
about.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
>
i think that
Gerry, il mio paesano Gerry, is right/ why i am writing about this matter? i
have under my nose the "Rolling Stone" issue 759 may 1,1997 pag.58
& by pure coincidence there is an ad like this:
You haven't
heard Jack yet.
Kerouac
kicks joy
darkness
with performances
by
Morfine
Lydia Lunch
Michael Stipe
Steven Tyler
Hunter S. Thompson
Maggie Estep
& the Spitters
Richard Kewis
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
&Helium
Jack Kerouac
& Joe Strummer
Allen Ginsberg
Eddie Vedder,
Campbell 2000
& Sadie 7
William Burroughs
& tomandandy
Juliana Hatfield
John Cale
Johnny Depp & Come
Robert Hunter
Lee Ranaldo
& Dana Colley
Anna Domino
Rob Buck & Danny Chauvin
as Hitchhiker
Patti Smith
with Thurston Moore
& Lenny Kaye
Warren Zevon
& Michael Wolff
Jim Carroll with
Lee Ranaldo, Lenny Kaye
& Anton Sanco
Matt Dillon
with Joey Altruda
Inger Lorre & Jeff Buckley
Eric Andersen
In stores April 8th
Produced by Jim Sampas
Associate Producer: Lee Ranaldo
my question is
Sampas mentioned above is that Sampas who Nicosia is referring in his posts? by
way of this Sampas i immediatley got a negative feedback (like a pavlov dog) to
such a work despite the excellent pedigree of performers how much money is
rolling out ?
the works of Jack
Kerouac who
is universal
maybe free to the people not (c) or other e.g. can the pope damage the
"Cappella Sistina" ? he is the owner can the concil town of Rome
destroy the "Fontana di Trevi" ? he is the owner BUT everyone know
that this works of the human mankind are really NOT owner of a single person i
hope,
i miei piu' cari
saluti a tutti,
yrs Rinaldo Rasa.
* hi! guardate
che scrivo dall'Italia, da un altro mondo! *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: jack
kerouac bio written by Gerald Nicosia
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
beat
points
first: there's an
italian language translation of the
book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout the JK
life
& works? anyone can tell something?
second:in angst
for the hot shift of the posts from word
to word, points
first: there's an
italian language translation of the
book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout the JK
life
& works? anyone can tell something?
second:in angst
for the hot shift of the posts from word
to word, but i'm a real beet (sic!) & i
do not understand
why people leaves the B-List.
yrs
Rinaldo.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: List
changes
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020903afc04c7814d2@[206.25.67.117]>
References:
<339AB756.1DCC7756@scsn.net>
<l03020909afc017ffc0c3@[206.25.67.119]>
model of
bird
to
attract
other
birds
--- the catTo:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: X
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DON'T CALL ME WHITE!
don't call me
WHITE
"tHE hISTORY oF tHE fIERCY cROSS
iS oF sCOTTISH
oRIGIN, iT wAS uTILIZED aS A sIGN oF
oPPOSITION
tO tYRANNY fROM bIG gOVERNMENT aND
oBEDIENCE tO
gOD"
don't call me
WHITE !!!
DON'T CALL
ME WHITE!!
DON'T CALL
ME WHITE!!
when i was AC
when i was YOUNG
Yeeaaaaahh
DON'T CALL
ME WHITE!!
DON'T CALL
ME WHITE!!
no!! no!!
NO!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03010d00afc17c743039@[131.230.145.137]>
References:
At 09.34 09/06/97
-0500, Bob Fox wrote:
> With regard to Rinaldo Rasa's comment
that his posting of a quote
>from Amiri
Baraka (LeRoi Jones) "has no beat connection," it is necessary
>to note that
before he became a black cultural nationalist and changed his
>name to Amiri
Baraka ("blessed prince") in 1967, LeRoi Jones was very
>closely
associated with the Beats. He was the
only black writer included
>in Donald
Allen's seminal anthology THE NEW AMERICAN POETRY 1945-1960,
>which
included many of the Beats. Jones also
published (along with his
>first wife
Hettie Cohen) a magazine called YUGEN (1958-1963), which
>published
many Beat writers. He was close friends
with Allen Ginsberg and
>others before
repudiating his relationships with white people (something he
>is critical
of today). The full story of the beats
would have to include
>African
Americans like LeRoi Jones and Ted Joans, as well as Bob Kaufman.
>If anyone
knows of any others, I'd like to have the information.
>
>
i agree with u,
LeRoi Jones IS a beat,
apologies for the
mistake,
i love u friends,
indeed,
yrs
Rinaldo
from
venice,italy.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
generation.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
I think a lot of
people knows that Jack Kerouac himself denied to be a beat. "Duluoz"
his last book (& other last articles circa 1968-1969) they are more
explicit on this side of JK thought. JK:because I writes about beatniks do not
make me a beat.
JK:I am
independent and do not want to appear in anthology with writers with whom I
disagree.
this sentences
are a bit disappointing, why JK speaks so?
thanx for yr
friendship,
---
yrs Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: GHETTO
DEFENDANT (the Clash)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
i found likes:
"One night
at the Bond's shows on Broadway, Allen Ginseberg got up on stage and started to
recite something, and the band came up with an impromptu musical backing to it.
I think that he may have done it with them a couple of nights later as well...
When we were recording Combat Rock, Ginsberg came down to the studio with Pete
Orlofsky (sp?).
He wanted to get
the Clash to back him on a record he was going to make, but ended up on our
record instead... Some people have said he was Joe's lyric coach on that
record, but I think that's a bit overplayed."---KOSMO VINYL
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Ann
Charters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
is here Ann
Charters on the B-List? i'm reading his introduction to JK "On The
Road" (ya, re-re-re-reading summer...), btw if also are here some Beat
Brit (living in London) can say me hello?
love, peace &
freelin'life,
yrs
Rinaldo from
venice,italy.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Beat
generation.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970609231546_-194754051@emout16.mail.aol.com>
References:
C. Plymell
writes:
>Rinaldo,
>Maybe he
sensed that the center is always the edge that is. Nufzentonite?
>C. Plymell
>
>
DEAR C. Plymell
& other friends,
not only JK had
difficulties to embracing the BEAT, but even GREGORY CORSO & others. so the
focus of BEAT is fading, in the charter JK AG & WSB are only a banner,
& works 'bout modern artists american/european et coetera, i hope became
more beat-spotting than usually. for example the past estate battle was (if i'm
wrong beat me as a beetle!) concerning the true manuscript of "On The
Road" & that seem hidden in some place in the UsOfAm, the book we
enjoy are snipped from a longest book written by many hands & Jack became
the "focus" of this experience, & when he was 47 he don't care
anymore, i'm sure if JK disagree with BEAT there's no dimishing of the past BUT
a sort of emphasis of a collective works maked in lost years,
love &
happiness,
yrs Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
"Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
hi derek,
"Beaulieu,
Victor-Levy. Jack Kerouac: A Chicken-Essay. Toronto,1975" are u close or
distant relative with this writer?
love&happiness
yr
Rinaldo * edmonton
sounds me like a song... *
* like
on the green plain i see here * To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
generation.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
amazingly I found
that the real name of KEROUAC is JOHN, when he changed his name? and why?
---
yrs
Rinaldo
* a not competent
beat is a beet? *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: John
Cage, "Writing through Howl" (1984)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
John Cage,
"Writing through Howl" (1984)
mAdness
coLd-water
fLats
thE
braiNs
throuGh
wIth
aNd
academieS
Burning
monEy
maRijuana
niGht
After
endLess
cLoud
thE
motioNless
Green
joyrIde
suN
aShcan
Brain
drainEd of
bRilliance
niGht
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/cage-ginsberg.html
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: lAsT
cHaNgE in beat-L (the voices & the echoes)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
1^ thanx alot for
gimme information 'bout JK's name... work in progress.
2^ 'cuz recent
change in the politcs
of the Beat-List: i get 2 message:
one from the replayer
& one from the B-list,
i think it's 2B a nice feature,
no other mailing list can do it,
only the beats can do it!
great!,
love&happiness,
yrs Rinaldo
from
venice,italy.
* a not competent
beet *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Oz
and Moon (non-Beat)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33A21FE2.4713@midusa.net>
References:
David Rhaesa
writes:
>David-
>Thought you
might find this interesting. Bob sent it
to me.
>Apparently,
>if you start
Dark Side of the Moon at the right moment on a video tape
>of
>The Wizard of
Oz, the music and the movie match perfectly.
Have you
>heard
>of this?
yes,
OZ was an underground magazine printed in London
1966, on
the ground floor,
INK was another londoner magazine on the first
floor, same
building,
PINK is Floyd
yes,
* PLAY POWER *
>>
>>
http://homepage.usr.com/g/gocheese/48613.shtml
>
>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
generation.(Kerouac's catholocism)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970614140811_-328451480@emout10.mail.aol.com>
References:
Attila Gyenis
writes:
>>>>I
think that Kerouac's conflict occurs because he was raised to have a strong
>belief in the
greater sanctity of life and heaven (Kerouac's catholocism),
>but as he
went through life he was bluntly reminded that a) sanctity of life
>is not
universally practiced and b) this may be the one and only roadtrip and
>damn, he may
have made some wrong turns. The idea of no afterlife can be a
>depressing
thought. Many times it is what helps us get through this life,
>thinking the
next one surely has to be better.<<<<
>always enjoy,
Attila
>
DEAR friends
& Attila,
as i'm roman
catholic by family tradition (here in italy) i reminded u that for catholics
there's really a survival of our body after death & at the right time we
will recover OUR BODY not only spirit. this faith is popularized in such
B-Movie horror cultish likes "the night of the living deads" (1968)
in term of fear & angst, but perhaps the real thing is that WE COME BACK to
EARTH as man & woman as we are NOW, that's the real force of catholic life,
if, of course a (wo)man believes.
Jack Kerouac
highlighted in 1958 (lamb, not lion) the Beat Generation isn't without roots,
beat isn't tough. beat doesn't mean tired or being beaten. &JK see himself
alive in year 2000...
Jack Kerouac used
the word "beato" (written in italian) for beatific condition as San
Francesco, trying to love all in the life.
unluckly 10 years
after (circa) JK will die, but i don't think his catholicism caused
"dark" term of his life,
love&happiness,
yrs
Rinaldo. * a beet
*To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
generation/Cantico di Frate Sole/S.Francesco
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Cantico di Frate Sole by Francesco d'Assisi
(4 october 1226)
Altissimu, onnipotente, bon Signore,
tue so' le laude, la gloria e l'honore et
onne benedictione.
Ad te solo, Altissimo, se konfano,
et nullu homo ene dignu te mentovare.
5 Laudato sie, mi' Signore, cum tucte le tue
creature,
spetialmente messor lo frate sole,
lo qual'e' iorno, et allumini noi per lui.
Et ellu e' bellu e radiante cum grande
splendore:
de te, Altissimo, porta significatione.
10 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sora luna e le
stelle:
in celu l'ai formate clarite et pretiose et
belle.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per frate vento
et per aere et nubilo et sereno et onne
tempo,
per lo quale a le tue creature dai
sustentamento.
15 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sor'aqua,
la quale e' multo utile et humile et pretiosa
et casta.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per frate focu,
per lo quale ennallumini la nocte:
ed ello e' bello et iocundo et robustoso et
forte.
20 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sora nostra matre
terra,
la quale ne sustenta et governa,
et produce diversi fructi con coloriti flori
et herba.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per quelli ke
perdonano per lo tuo
amore
et sostengo infirmitate et tribulatione.
25 Beati quelli ke 'l sosterranno in pace,
ka da te, Altissimo, sirano incoronati.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sora nostra
morte corporale,
da la quale nullu homo vivente po' skappare:
guai a.cquelli ke morrano ne le peccata
mortali; 30 beati quelli ke trovara' ne
le tue sanctissime voluntati,
ka la morte secunda no 'l farra' male.
Laudate e benedicete mi' Signore et
rengratiate
e serviateli cum grande humilitate.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
generation/wild plan for stealing...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
James Stauffer
writes,
>>>Just
read Kaufman's poem on the City of San Francisco taking down the statue of St.
Francis by Benny Buffano that used to stand in front of the church of St. Peter
and St. Paul and North Beach of San Francisco when Jack and all were
there. Remember the statue myself.
Hatched a wild plan for stealing it, but never did.<<<
James,
thax for the
Kaufman's poem quoted, i like it, but i hope yr wild plaining to the statua of
San Francesco in SF is gone for ever, please, james, do a "Fioretto"
give credit to Francesco d'Assisi, & get rid yr bright idea.
if Jean Louis
Kerouac in his infancy & later was roman catholic it's honourable as zen or
buddhism or likes religions, perhaps he or his mother narrated San Francesco's
life & miracles & spontaneous prose & poetry...
btw Philip
Lamantia is true catholic:
CONTRA SATANUS by Philip Lamantia
Thy light is higher than
light thy Angels higher than angels
Moons whisper their lights it's the end of the world Fasting and reborn
The Crystal forms out of moonlight and sunlight Day and night Green Crystal Red
WHITE BLACK BLUE CRYSTAL
YELLOW CRYSTAL
BROWN CRYSTAL!!
I am Hymnon riding ham/wings
of ACQUARIAS BEARDS OF SAMOTHRACE
JONQUILS FROM
DESERTS OF THE SEA
In my nights of white photography my mountain
fell my heads rolled dice in heaven my eyes poured out poison In my day of love
in my day of love I saw one rock one
strata
one pinnacle one tree one vine one spring of
green one flower
one man
one woman I loved I am Pythagoras Agitator smiling from infide
blue coins I am paid by light
lights
is
house
of
MINT!
GARDEN LIGHT
OF OF THE my finger is God!
HIS MONIES GARDEN
WAVES
WAVES WAVES
WAVES WAVES
-it's indesript/I
have gone into inaudia - flocking sun on my flocking back+++++ROAR! MALDORORIAN
WAVES! I!+++++
Angel I have not seen/Angel I've
seen Light of darkness
visitation of noname about to smash
into SMILES Here is face of old water Man buried in quickgreen lime fountains
of
ZUT GUT
accent over U
-the WAVES! PHOTO JOURNAL SEA
SCAPES fin.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
generation/Ezra Pound, winter 1970/reverie
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
when I was YounG
i was 20
i saw a man in VeNice on a bridge
the man stand & looked the laguna di Venezia Torcello Burano San Francesco del Deserto
ISlands
cold winter
in 1970
white hair
cold wind
blew
there was the
time i have glimpsed a poet & this image sculpted in my eyes, years later i
realized he was Ezra Pound, photos on papers recall the image, yes, like othe r
things in the life of a generation became "ghost" thin g,
---
yrs
Rinaldo * be a beetle or better a beet *To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beat
generation/milestone
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DIED.
ALLEN GNSBERG, 70, quintes-
sential beatnik poet, of a
heart attack brought on by
chronic liver disease; in
New York City. Forming the
trinity of the 1950s Beat
generation along with Will
iam Burroghs and Jack Kero
uac, ginsberg captured pub
lic attention in 1956 with
HOWL, a long poem that ra
ged against a conformist s
ociety and dealt with his
homosexuality. In the '60s
and '70s, he was active in
both the hippie and antiwa
r movements. His poetry pr
efigured punk and New Age,
drawing inspiration from y
oga, Buddishm, Native Amer
ican mysticism, the Torah
and U.S. poets like Willia
m Carlos Williams.
T I M E THE WEEKLY NEWSMAGAZINE - april 21,1997
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: pidgin
rant
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
tic! tic!! tic!!!
+&
On
Ly
mon
sters
shall survive
+&
& queues
at
the
postal office
+&
---
Yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Zabriskie Point revised (Re: Oz and Moon (non-Beat))
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
the needed to get
off, Michelangelo Antonioni director, filmed "Zabriskie Point" in
1970 as an itinerary of freedom ("Easy Ryder" was out before circa
same period), & Michelangelo Antonioni first did consciousness Pink Floyd,
important music.
the scene of
explosion in ZP was commented by the Pink Floyd's song "Careful with that
Axe, Eugene", then Pink Floyd goes in another further movies in years to
come,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Zabriskie Point revised
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970621105721.5506B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970621132759.00bdee80@pop.gpnet.it>
Derek A. Beaulieu
writes:
>soundtrack
for zabriski point also by the grateful dead's own prophet mr.
>jerome j.
garcia. in case ya'll didnt know.
>derek
& when the
policeman says what's yr name? Mark says "Karl Marx", & the
policeman typewrites "Marx Carlo",
this scene remember me "On the Road" where Jack Kerouac describes
"the dark mind that is Carlo Marx", i cant' think Michelangelo
Antonioni haven't read the Kerouac's work... ( a quote & a tribute to JK
dead a year before?)
btw who is really
Carlo Marx in "On The Road"? this question is now keep in my mind,
peace&happiness,
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * a beet
is a beet *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Genesis
in nuce.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Yahweh by
John Cage
Jabal
hE was
tHe
Of
haVE
nAme
He
Just
walkEd
with
gOd
filled with Violence
And
flesH
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Marcel
Proust questionnaire (Re: does anyone here speak french?)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Quel est pour
vous le comble de la mise're?
[]
Ou' aimeriez-vous
vivre?
[]
Votre ide'al de
bonheur terrestre?
[]
Pour quelles
fautes avez-vous le plus d'indulgence?
[]
Vos he'ros de
romans pre'fe'res?
[]
Votre personnage
historique pre'fe're'?
[]
Vos he'roi:nes
dans le vie re'elle?
[]
Vos he'roi:nes
dans la fiction?
[]
Votre peintre
favori?
[]
Votre musicien
pre'fe're'?
[]
Votre qualite'
pre'fe're'e chez l'homme?
[]
Votre qualite'
pre'fe're'e chez la femme?
[]
Votre vertu
pre'fe're'e?
[]
Votre occupation
pre'fe're'e?
[]
Qui auriez-vous
aime' e^tre?
[]
Le trait
principal de votre caracte're?
[]
Ce que vouz
appre'ciez le plus chez des amis?
[]
Votre principal
de'feaut?
[]
Votre re^ve de
bonheur?
[]
Quel serait votre
plus grand malheur?
[]
Ce que vous
voudriez e^tre?
[]
Le couleur que
vous pre'fe'rez?
[]
Le fleur que vous
aimez?
[]
L'oiseau que vous
pre'fe'rez?
[]
Vos auteurs
favoris en prose?
[]
Vos poe'tes
pre'fe're's?
[]
Vos noms favoris?
[]
Le caracte'res
historiques que vous me'prisez le plus?
[]
Le fait militaire
que vous admirez le plus?
[]
Le don de la nature
que vous voudriez avoir?
[]
Ce que vous
de'testez par dessus tout?
[]
Comment
aimeriez-vous mourir?
[]
E'tat pre'sent de
votre esprit?
[]
Votre devise?
[]
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats'
pseudonyms.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970623082238.47066A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970623153253.00be5594@pop.gpnet.it>
Derek A. Beaulieu
writes:
>
>as to the
identity of poor carlo marx lost in the weeds:
>well our own
allen ginsberg.
>the secrets
out
>there gonna
be trouble.
>keep yr
trenchcoat on yr fedora down low
>derek
>
& jack
kerouac changed the pseudonyms in each book, a comedy seen thru the eyes of Ti
Jean, (big sur), btw only Lorenz Monsanto (Ferlinghetti) was the same, other
changedcuz'book trade matter
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * be beet *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Help
the beaten
Cc:
Bcc:
tbaylor@forbin.com
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33AF2ED9.91275D8A@scsn.net>
References:
Tom,
u can see almost
everything 'bout yr questions at web site (Electronic Poetry Center)
http://wings.buffalo.edu/epc/connects/lists.htm
hope this help,
---
yrs
Rinaldo * a not
competent beat *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: life and
all its little adventures...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020914afd52b3204d1@[206.25.67.100]>
References:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970623114237.2276A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
<33AEEA5E.2ED9@together.net>
Marie Countryman
writes:
>>>
Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:
>>nexttime.
the ACT, to me, is more important that the product (in my word
>>w(a)(o)nderings).
>>different
ways of approaching wrds.
>>same core
tho.
>_______
>revision or
tightening up structure is as much an ACT as first thought
>first word
splatter/shower out of head. and sculpture is what i see as the
>final part of
my works when i put them in their place on the page.
>mc
>who really
would like to be gonzo poet rather than 'confessional' have
>decided to
kick that damn catholic girl outta my head. so auto bio is
>probably more
accurate 'label' i dont write about ideas i write about my
>life and all
its little adventures....
>mc
>
% %
( )
- [ -
& &
) (
+] /
|
^ ^
@ @
# #
+ +
* *
\...++*
(...my * *%$""'
life and all its
little adventures....)
talkin'bout poetry &
\
(...kick
that damn
catholic girl outta my head...)
% £ !|
writing words
is sometime
like a panther
& give words
people almost
not poets,
\\
\
(...be gonzo poet
rather than
'confessional'...)
%&(!\\
i'm a gonzo
(
with re
ference to i
talian mean
i ng
of th
e wORd gonzo as a fool,
F O O L,
-F- -O- -O- -L-
)
FOOL! FOOL!! fooOL!!!,
f
or poe
ts t
+ he ja
ils are al
ways
O
OOOOOOpen
\"\"\)
% %
( )
- [ -
& & ==
° ) (
+] /
|
^ ^
#°°° @ @
# #
+ £££===??? +
* *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
!a)n)a)a)k)a)r(c(h(y)c)0)m)e)s(B(a(c(K! Re: raining punctuation....
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970624125103.56486A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970624193738.0068ba64@pop.gpnet.it>
..........mostOfmessageSnippedForBrevity..........pun.......
....................pun.....................................
> *
> "for poets the jails
> are always open,"
> i tried to convince
>
> garcia lorca.
>
> but
> franco wouldnt let me
> speak.
> and lorca held my hand and said
> "no,
> for poets the ails
> are always open,"
>
>
>
!a)n)a) a)k)a) r(c(h(y )c)0)m)e)s(B(a(c(K!
!
!!
!!!#
Yo)I)i)u)yo)u)w(e(wE
%
s
%
aY
hu man we
are
hu man s we err
under standing
wo rds
AS noT individual
wo rds
is going
to get
u very
far in unde
r standing
wh y
s om e wooooooooooooRds
are go (od &
so me
are ho(err R(Id
?
^
? ' ' || 00|||/\°°°°°°
$
%
10th a. k. a.
wo Wo WO rds
on a pa ge isnt' muchmuch
d i ff er (r
r)ent
fr omheaRing
&=&=&+
see(a=c ing
the m
spo
kenBy
live peo+ Poe
ple on a st
re(ER)et
^
' 8)() @ " /
i
dont' c any
di ff er(R
en ce
#
# = =
0 0^ ^ 4 $
u ar e (rr shift (iching
(ing
any
T'ng u canName
!\\?
[
* & $
] * ( (
!a)n)a) a)k)a) r(c(h(y )c)0)m)e)s(B(a(c(K!
!
!!
!!!#
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Kerouac.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
DEAR friends,
Lowell
Massachusetts on the tombstone:
"Ti Jean -
John Kerouac who honored Life - his wife Stella"
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Nero.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
my black
spaniel
Nero,
my dog
is unplugged
my dog
goes
by the vet
my dog
Nero
isnt' stupid!
my dog
watched
the telly
my dog
was a pet
when ceausescu
was killed
in xmas day
my dog Nero
isnt' stupid!
my dog
now is
near a bunch
of trash,
car plate,
or in kennel
my dog
killed
one hundred
hens
& when
the wind
is blowing
on the right
i hear his
unplugged
soul
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
messing 'round
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970625220315.524B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
References:
"Robert H.
Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET> wrote:
>some antics
>
>
>
> Now here
> is
> nowhere
> is
> a God
> is
> a
dog
> as
> anywhere
> is
>any where
> is
> nowhere
>
>Words are
> not
>doors and
> i
> am not
> a
>word but
> i
> am
also
> not
> a
door
> you
>guess it's
> your
>turn still
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Eric Sapp
>rhs4@crystal.palace.net
>
>
&
gave Off sparks
On the stOne
dO Or s
"NO One Here Get Out Alive"--jm
30yrs agO was nOt
sO sad
are we
wOrd-machine
Or
blurred sepia
phOtos
Only gOd knOws what we are
anyOne Offended
by my wOrds
im' guilt &
deeply apOlogies
but in all sincerity
i lOve u
my friends-- yrs
RinaldO
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Kerouac.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 19.29 25/06/97
+0200, Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it> wrote:
>DEAR friends,
>Lowell
Massachusetts on the tombstone:
>"Ti Jean
- John Kerouac who honored Life - his wife Stella"
>
>---
>yrs
>Rinaldo.
>
"Please
permit me to introduce myself...
My name is Henry
Cru and my best friend "Jack Kerouac" sent ne the enclosed postal
card on my trip around the world. I am an electrician on the President Jackson
and we are scheduled to arrive in Genoa June sixt or possibly a day or two
later. In Jack's best selling novel On The Road he named himself "Sal Paradise"
and he called me "Remi Bon Coeur". According to his card he wishes
for me to tell you that I am Remi and then he sent me. I have no idea why he
wants me to tell you this but knowing Jack as I do he must have some kind of
mystical reason".
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Betty
Shabazz.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Betty Shabazz, American
civil
rights worker, died
of burns in a New York
hospital aged 61.
She was born in Detroit
on May
28, 1936.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Philip
Lamantia(?)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Poetry by Philip Lamantia (?)
The real stuff.
Small presses.
(Mostly.)
Big thoughts.
Some with
punctuation.
some without
All in love with
language.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: wrong
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends
apologies, i push the wrong button, ---Rinaldo.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Be At
Home.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
BE AT HOME!
it is near
a summer evening
lavender flowers
in the garden
i'm afraid! i'm afraid!
at
sunset
honey bees
they worked
at
the end of a day
i'm afraid! i'm afraid!
be at home!
why are you afraid
by the bees?
they yield honey!
do you like the honey?
without bees nothing honey
do you like the honey?
I DONT' LIKE HONEy!
I DONT' LINE HONEY!
I DONT' LIKE HONEy!
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * a bee
beaten *
www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htmTo:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: No Nazi
On The Net was (Re: FW: please read this and vote)
Cc: Sherri
<love_singing@MSN.COM>
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199706301808480644@msn.com>
References:
At 17.51 30/06/97
UT, you wrote:
>This is
important, please take the time.
>Ciao, Sherri
>
>----------
>From: Jamey Sims
>Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 9:48 AM
>To: 'sherry'; 'Dave'; 'jota'; 'Jacky';
'Sherri'; 'Stella'; 'Jennifer';
>'Ralph';
'David Lang'; 'boyeeeeeee'; 'Suzie & Robert'; 'Gary'; 'The Lang
>Gang';
'Brandon Wescott'; 'kevey'; 'Dr Cowan'; 'Renee'; 'bogie'; 'Tammy';
>'Shari &
Troy'; 'Yvonne'
>Subject: FW: please read this and vote
>
>do this
please
>--Jamey
>
>----------
>From: Marrow
>Sent: Saturday, June 28, 1997 3:35 PM
>To: Jamey Sims
>Subject: please read this and vote
>
>
>
>>From:
Marrow <mychajlo@pop.fast.net>
>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>
>>>From:
J_DRUCK@prodigy.com (MR JEFFREY L DRUCKENMILLER)
>>>Date:
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:39:12, -0500
>>>To:
rrjwalz@integrityonline.com, mychajlo@fast.net
>>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>>
>>>for
your interest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>>
>>>From: (Warshie) DIANNE WARSHAVER
>>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>>Date: 06/20
>>>Time: 07:28 PM
>>>
>>>so,
we are never safe from crazies.....
>>>
>>>
>>><<
Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
>>>
>>>From: David Blum
>>>Subject: please read this and vote
>>>Date: 06/20
>>>Time: 06:55 PM
>>>
>>>Return-Path:
<davmark@mindspring.com>
>>>Received:
from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com
>>>[207.69.200.11])
>>> by pimaia1w.prodigy.com (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with ESMTP id SAA106760
>>> for <Warshie@prodigy.com>; Fri, 20
Jun 1997 18:56:48 -0400
>>>Received:
from 38.26.20.135 (ip135.an9-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net
>>>[38.26.20.135])
>>> by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with SMTP id SAA03646;
>>> Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:55:11 -0400 (EDT)
>>>Message-ID:
<33AAC4FA.42EF@mindspring.com>
>>>Date:
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:59:22 +0100
>>>From:
David Blum <davmark@mindspring.com>
>>>Reply-To:
davmark@mindspring.com
>>>X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; 68K)
>>>MIME-Version:
1.0
>>>To:
"artworks@concentric.net" <artworks@concentric.net>,
>>> "CHFriend@aol.com"
<CHFriend@aol.com>,
>>> "joshperi@netvision.net.il"
<joshperi@netvision.net.il>,
>>> MS DIANNE L WARSHAVER
<Warshie@prodigy.com>,
>>> Sarah Barnett
<phibarn@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu>,
>>> Steve Zuckerman
<szucker@isd.net>,
>>> "Susan E. Ranney"
<sranney@azstarnet.com>,
>>> Suzie Dennis Ben David
<marketingedge@msn.com>,
>>> "zin@juno.com"
<zin@juno.com>
>>>Subject:
please read this and vote
>>>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>>>
>>>>Forwarded
message:
>>>>Subj: No Subject
>>>>Date: 97-06-06 03:17:09 EDT
>>>>From: Jonapangai
>>>>To: CampNicole
>>>>
>>>>We
have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create
>>>>(again)
a usenet group where they want to keep in contact
>>>>with
each other regarding their activities. I believe it is not
>>>>necessary
to dwell further on these activities.
>>>>
>>>>The
group is rec.music.white-power
>>>>
>>>>To
create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is
>>>>always
organised when a new usenet group is created.
>>>>All
persons with an email address, and only those, can vote
>>>>in
this referendum.
>>>>
>>>>It
is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is
>>>>cancelled.
>>>>
>>>>To
prevent the creation of this group, you have to:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Send this message to people you know
>>>>
>>>> 2. Send an email to the following address:
>>>>
>>>> music-vote@sub-rosa.com
>>>>
>>>> 3. In the body of your message (not in the
'subject' line)
>>>> include EXACTLY and ONLY the following
line:
>>>>
>>>> I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
>>>>
>>>>Since
the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the
>>>>exact
line as it is given above, without adding anything, not even
>>>a
>>>>name.
>>>>And
please send it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also,
>>>>
>>>>PLEASE FORWARD
>>>>THIS
LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL ADDRESS TO
>>>>PREVENT
THE GROUP FOUNDERS FROM CREATING THIS GROUP.
>>>>
>>>>*********************************************
>>>>
Israel Rubinstein
>>>>
Professor of Chemistry
>>>>
Department of Materials and Interfaces
>>>>The
Weizmann Institute of Science
>>>>
Rehovot 76100, Israel
>>>>Phone:
+972 8 9342678 Fax: +972 8 9344137
>>>>
E-mail: cprubin@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
>>>>http://www.weizmann.ac.il/weg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Gerardo
(Jerry) Rogoff
>>>Field
Applications Engineer
>>>Exar
Corporation
>>>500
Clark Rd.
>>>Tewksbury,
MA 01876
>>>
>>>Tel.: (508) 640-8899
>>>FAX: (508) 640-6926
>>>Pager:
(800) 943-4064
>>>
>>>email:
jerry.rogoff@exar.com
>>>Visit
our Website @: http://www.exar.com
>>>
>>>
>>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>>
>>><Distribution
List>
>>> (FJHE36A), J DRUCKENMILLER
>>> (TVSG32A), STEVE BOGUS
>>>
>>>
>>><<
End of Forwarded message >>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Michael T.
Montgomery
>mychajlo@fast.net
>
>
Sherri,
i agree with yr
fwd message, i have already posted likes message in march 97 & now i dont'
know if nazi are attempting to re-vote 'bout this NG, if this the case, please
send yr fresh informaion, 'cuz i was pointed (in march 97) that the vote was
over & the nazi NG spin off the Usenet... but time perhaps are a changin',
ciao e tanti
saluti da
Rinaldo. To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re: self
proclaimed poet
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>From: Zach Chisholm
<chizam@TRACE.IE.WISC.EDU>
>Subject: self proclaimed poet
>
>I am a self
proclaimed poet
>relatively
new to beat-l
>thought I'd
promote
>my site of
poetry
>(http://trace.ie.wisc.edu/chizam)
>I'm a 19 year
old male
>living in
Wisconsin
>(when I'm not
out traveling)
>no formal
teaching
>have I
recived
>in the area
of writing
>but I enjoy
it
>I'm no
Kerouac, Ginsberg, or Whitman
>I'm just me
writing
>my opinions
>my thoughts
>my
experiences
>on paper and
in computers
>If you would
>go and read
my work
>email me what
you think
>I'll keep on
writing
>because all
in all
>it is just
for me
>
>Zach Chisholm
>
>
zach, nice
performance! self proclaimed poet RIGHT ON!
if u Like my
opinion!
---
yrs Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: No Nazi
AGAIN!!!.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dEAR fRIENDS,
i'm noticed in
advance many people disagree with censored the NG nazi, anyway i agree with
people who want that hate & dont' forget that hitler gang was let talked in
past & from word to word people agree with the project & then olocausto
became a reality, word arent' facts, maybe but in politics there a bit
different matter i suppose,
tHanx alot for yr
opinions my friends,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
* I write peotry
because Ezra Pound saw an ivory tower,
[bet on one wrong horse... ---allen ginsberg
* To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: No
Nazi AGAIN!!!.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:13:33 -0700
>From: runner711 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
>I think I
feel
>that people
will watch and wait
>see what
happens because you can't
>be everywhere
be everything
>certainly not
against
>everything
>my god
>
>life is about
breathing
>about
swimming
><<peeing
in the pool>>
>and about
running
>always about
running
>
>time takes a
cigarette <<david bowie>>
>
>Nazies, what
do I care?
>I think I
feel
>olo cost
>that's why
people don't agree
>censsssor
ship is bad!!!
>
>douglas
>
>At 10:42 PM
-0700 6/30/97, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>
>> dEAR
fRIENDS,
>> i'm
noticed in advance many people disagree with
>> censored
the NG nazi, anyway i agree with people
>> who want
that hate & dont' forget that hitler gang
>> was let
talked in past & from word to word people
>> agree
with the project & then olocausto became a reality,
>> word
arent' facts, maybe but in politics there a bit
>>
different matter i suppose,
>> tHanx
alot for yr opinions my friends,
>> ---
>> yrs
>> Rinaldo.
>> * I
write peotry because Ezra Pound saw an ivory tower,
>> [bet on one wrong horse... ---allen ginsberg
*
>
>
>http://www.electriciti.com/babu/ summer
>save it, just
keep it off my wave is
> -- ("my wave," soundgarden) here
>
dEAR,
i agree with u
but i forced myself to forget that Ezra Pound IS a fascist & put a line
between poetry & politics, but this not possible in every case, the poetry
as i known born in italy with San Francesco & then with Dante Alighieri
& wasnt' so clear that was ONLY lit, poetry was POLITICS at his dawn its'
no doubt, & what i must say 'cuz im' born in a patria who was the land
where fascism was grown...
have my love,
Rinaldo. * a not
competent beet *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: btw
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear friends, im'
reading "La leggenda di Duluoz" [THE LEGEND OF DULUOZ] by Jack
Keroauc, edit by Ann Charters, JK works are a long bestseller here in italy!---
yrs Rinaldo.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: pier
paolo pasolini.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901afdecd9a5505@[198.5.212.50]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970701131203.0068b834@pop.gpnet.it>
Douglas wrote:
[s/thing snipped
for brevity]
>don't know
Ezra Pound at all
>"Salo"
by piero pasolini has my love
>a fetching
carrot, // Douglas
dear Douglas,
pier paolo has
his brother killed by
fascists during
the italian civil
war in 1945, this
was,
a thread in his
works (poetries&films), his first film "Accattone" was a
milestone 'cuz introduce the vernacular language & actors street urchin
(neorealismo).
pier paolo
pasolini was killed in a cruel way in 1975,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*
"E cosi' ce
ne andremo perdendo a una a una Anche le parole piu' care, ed arrivando Fino a
Dio con carte bianche, ma forse
con visi piu'
sereni: mon lecteur, mon frere" poetry by venetian poet Giacomo Noventa *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: BOMB by
Gregory Corso (was re:gregory corso?)
Cc:
Bcc:
ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
BOMB by Gregory Corso
Budger of history Brake of time
You Bomb
Toy of universe Grandest of all snatched-sky I cannot hate you
Do I hate the mischievous thunderlbolt the jawbone of an ass
The bumpy club of On Million B.C. the mace
the flail the axe Catapulte Da Vinci tomahawke Cochise flintlock Kidd dagger Rathbone
Ah and the sad desperate gun of Verlaine Pushkin
Dillinger Bogart And hath not St. Michael a burning sword St. George a lance David a sling Bomb
you are as cruel as man makes you
and you're no crueller than cancer
All man hates you the'd rather die by car-crash lightining
drowing
Falling off a roof electric-chair heart-attack
old age old age O Bomb
They'd rather die by anything but you Death's finger is free-lance Not up to man wheter you boom or not Death has long since distribuited its categorical blue I sing thee Bomb Death's extravagance Death's jubilee Gem of Death's supremest blue The flyer will crash his death will differ
with the climber who'll fall To die by cobra is not to die by bad pork
Some die by swamp some by sea and some by the bushy-haired man in the night
O there are deaths like witches of Arc Scary deaths like Boris Karloff
No-feeling deaths like birth-death sadless deaths like old pain Bowery Abandoned deaths like Capital Punishment stately deaths like
senators And unthinkable deaths like
Harpo Marx girls on vogue covers
my own
I do not know just how orrible Bombdeath
is I can only image
Yet no other death I know has so laughable a
preview I scope
a city
New York City streaming starkeyed
subway shelter
Scores
and scores A fumble of humanity High beels bend
Hats whelming away Youth forgetting their combs
Ladies not knowing what to do with their shopping bags
Unperturbed gum machines Yet dangerous 3rd rail
Ritz Brothers from the Bronx caught in the A train
The smiling Schenley poster will always
smile
Implish Death Satyr Bomb
Bombdeath
Turtles exploding over
Istambul
The jaguar's flying foot
soon to sink in arctic snow
Penguins plunged against the
Sphinx
The top of the Empire State
Bulding
arrowed in a broccoli field in Sicily
Eiffel shaped like C in Magnolia Gardens
St. Sophia peeling over Sudan
O athletic Death Sportive Bomb
The temple of ancient times
their grand ruine ceased
Electrons Protons Neutrons
gathering Hesperean hair
walking the dolorous golf of Arcady
joing marble helmsmen
entering the final amphitheatre
with a hymnody feeling of all
Troys
heralding cypressean torches
racing plumes and banners
and yet knowing Homer with a step of grace
Lo the visiting team of Present
the home team of Past
Lyre and tuba together joined
Hark the hotdog soda olive grape
gala galaxy robed and uniformed
commissary O the happy stands
Ethereal root and cheer and boo
The billioned all-time attendance
The Zeusian pandemonium
Hermes racing Owens
the Spitball of Buddha
Christ striking out
Luther stealing third
Planetarium Death Hosannah Bomb
Gush the final rose O Spring Bomb
Come with thy gown of dynamite green
unmenance Nature's inviolate eye
Before you the wimpled Past
behind you the hallooing Future O
Bomb
Bound in the grassy clarion air
like the fox of the tally-ho
thy field the universe thy hedge the geo
Leap Bomb
bound Bomb frolic zig and zag
The stars a swarm of bees in the binging bag
Stick angels on your jubilee feet
wheels of rainlight on your bunky seat
You are due and behold you are due
and the heavens are with you
hosannah incalescent glorious liaision
BOMB O avoc antiphony molten cleft BOOM
Bomb mark infinity a sudden
furnace
spread thy multidinous encompassed Sweep
set forth awful agenda
Carrion stars charnel planets carcass elements
Corpse the universe tee-hee finger-in-the mounth hop
over its long long dead Nor
From thy nimbled matted spastic eye
exhsaust delegues of celestial ghouls
From thy appellational womb
spew birth-gusts of great worms
Rip open your belly Bomb
from your belly outflock vulturic salutations
Battle forth your spangled hyena finger stumps
along the brick of Paradis
O Bomb O final Pied Paradise
both sun and firefly behind your shock
waltz
God abandoned mock-nude
beneath His thin false-talc'd
apocalypse
He cannot hear thy flute's
happy-the-day profanation
He is spilled deaf into the Silencer's
warty ear
His Kingdom an eternity of crude wax
Clogged clarions untrumpet Him
Selead angels unsing Him
A thunderless God A dead God
O Bomb thy BOOM His tomb
That i lean forward on a desk of science
an astrologer dabbling in dragon
prose
half-smart about wars bombs
especially bombs
That I am unable to hate what is necessary to love
That i can't exist in a world that
consents
a
child in a park a man dying in an
electric-chair
That I am able to laugh at all
things
all that I know and do not know thus to conceal my pain
That I say I am a poet and therefore
love all man
and my unwords no less an acquaintanceship
That I am manifold
a man pursuing the big lies of
gold
or a poet roaming in bright ashes
or that which I image myself to be
a shark-toothed sleep a man-eater od dreams
I need not then be all-smart about bombs
Happily do for it I felt bombs were caterpillars
I'd doubt not they'd become
butterflies
There is a hell for bombs
They're there I see them there
They sit in bits and sing songs
mostly German songs
and two very long American songs
and they wish there were more songs
especcialy Russian and Chinese songs
and some more very long American songs
Poor little Bomb that'll never be
an Eskimo song I love thee
I want to put a lollipop
in thy furcal mouth
A wig of Goldilocks on thy baldy bean
and have you skip with me Hansel and
Gretel
along the Hollywoodian screen
O Bomb in which all lovely things
moral or phisical anxiously partecipate
O fairlyflake plucked from the
grandest universe tree
O piece of heaven which gives
both mountain and anthill a
sun
I am standing before your fantastic
lily door
I bring you Midgardian roses Arcadian musk
Reputed cosmetics from the girls of heaven
Welcome me fear not thy opened
door
nor thy cold ghost's grey memory
nor the pimps of indefinite weather
their cruel terrestrial thaw
Oppenheimer is seated
in the dark pocket of Light
Fermi is dry in Death's Mozambique
Einstein his mythmouth
a barnacled wreath on the moon-squid's
head
Let me in
Bomb rise from thet pregnant-rat
corner
nor
fear the raised-broom nations of the world
O Bomb I love you
I want to kiss your clanck eat your boom
You are a pean an acme of scream
a lyric hat of Mister Thunder
O resound thy tanky knees
BOOM BOOM BOOM
BOOM BOOM
BOOM ye skies and BOOM ye suns
BOOM
BOOM ye moons ye clouds ye rains
go BANG ye lakes ye oceans BING
Barracuda BOOM and coguar BOOM
Ubangi BANG orangoutang
BIG BANG BONG BOOM bee bear baboon
ye BANG ye BONG ye BING
the tail the fin the wing
Yes Yes into our midst a bomb will fall
Flowers will leap in joy their roots
aching
Pinkbombs will blossom Elkbombs will perk their ears
Ah many a bomb that day will awe the bird a
gentle look
Yet
not anough to say a bomb will fall
or even contend celestial fire goes out
Know that the earth will madonna the Bomb
that in the hearts of men to come more bombs
will be born
magisterial bombs wrapped in
ermine all beatiful
and they'll sit plunk on earth's grumpy
empires
fierce with moustaches of gold
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:33:36 -0500
>Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
>Subject: gregory corso?
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>Ksenija,
>The Corso
line you were asking about is from line 15 of Corso's
>poem
"Bomb"; in English it reads," To die by cobra is not to die
>by bad
pork." "Bomb" was originally published as a broadside, and
>later was
collected in _The Happy Birthday of Death_ as a foldout
>in that
volume, surely one of the few books of poetry ever published
>with a
centerfold.
>Cordially,
>Mike Skau
>7/1/97
>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: visions
of cody (JK reading televised in los angels october 1959)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"Vision of
Cody" for jack kerouac was his preferred book 'cuz he wasnt' able to
publish it,---Rinaldo.
*
Rarely, rarely
comest
[thou Spirit of
Delight"
---shelley
*To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (c)
& (r)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>>From
FireWalk Thru Madness, copyright December 1992 David B. Rhaesa <|snip|>
David,
are you
copirated?
---
yrs
Rinaldo * a
beetle bottled *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: be at #2
haiku
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
blurred flies
in his eyes
poor man
incognito like a
multimillionaire
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Rexroth
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" by Kenneth
Rexroth
You,
The hyena with
polished face and bow tie, In the office of a billion dollar
Corporation
devoted to service;
The vulture
dripping with carrion,
Carefully and
carelessly robed in imported tweeds, Lecturing on the Age of Abundance;
The jackal in the
double-breasted gabardine, Barking by remote control,
In the United
Nations...
The Superego in a
thousand uniforms,
You, the finger
man of the behemoth,
The murderer of
the young men...To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Visions
of Cody JK speaks
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/soundsource.html
The Kerouac
singing sound is an outtake from the Blues and Haikus session. The
"meaningless goof" sample is a passage from Visions of Cody called
Neal and the Three Stooges. Note how in this passage he says "Neal knows
his name" rather than "Cody knows his name." Kerouac wrote with
using real names and changed them later before publication. This recording was
made before Visions of Cody was published.
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Friday
(afternoon, summer)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Friday afternoon summer
blue collars clean
out punching papers
bank closed
calm calm
hasty employees swarm like ants
calm calm
money has stopped working (except credit card)
&
pensioners have
lost the cork of the bottle
&
cats
&
cats are dozing on the patio
&
cats wont' eat the poor birdies fallen from
the nest
&
clouds
clouds?
& the clouds turned pink from the brush
of canaletto
calm calm calm
until
MONDAY
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*
"Io sono una
forza del Passato.
Solo nella
tradizione e' il mio amore." Pier Paolo Pasolini
*To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Denise
Levertov.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
PEOPLE AT NIGHT by Denise LEVERTOV
A night that cuts
between you and you
and you and you
and you
and me : jostles
us apart, a man elbowing through a crowd. We
won't
look for each other, either-
wander off, each
alone, not looking
in the slow
crowd. Among sideshows
under movie signs,
pictures made of a million lights,
giants that move and again move
again, above a cloud of thick smells,
franks, roasted nutmeats-
Or going up to
some apartment, yours
or yours, finding
someone sitting
in the dark:
who is it really?
So you switch the
light on to see:
you know the name but
who is it ?
But you won't see.
The fluorescent
light flickers sullenly, a pause. But you command. It grabs
each face and
holds it up
by the hair for
you, mask after mask.
You
and you and I repeat
gestures that make do when speech
has failed and talk
and talk, laughing, saying
'I', and 'I',
meaning
'Anybody'.
No one.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
proletariat #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
shopping
bags
come
back
home
killing
me!
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a
poetess in the early peace movement Re: Denise Levertov.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970706203859_191982931@emout20.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 20.39 06/07/97
-0400, Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM> wrote:
>Worse than
discourse!
>Charles
Plymell
>
Buona giornata
Charles, can i get better?
SUMMER 1961 by DENISE LEVERTOV
This is the year
when the old ones,
the old great
ones,
leave us alone on
the road.
The road leads to
the sea.
We have the words
in our pockets,
obscure
directions. The old ones
have taken away
the light of their presence, we see it moving away over a hill
off to one side.
They are not
dying,
they are
withdrawn
into a painful
privacy
learning to live
without words.
E.P., "it
looks like dying"-Williams: "I can't describe to you what has been
happening to
me"-
H.D. "unable
to speak."
The darkness
twists itself in
the wind, the stars
are small, the
horizon
ringed with confused
urban light-haze.
They have told us
the road lead to
the sea,
and given
the language into
our hands.
We hear
our footsteps
each time a truck
has dazzled past
us and gone
leaving us new
silence.
One can't reach
the sea on this
endless
road to the sea
unless
one turns aside
at the end, it seems,
follows
the owl that
silently glides above it
aslant, back and
forth,
and away into
deep woods.
But for us the
road
unfurls itself,
we count the
words in our
pockets, we wonder
how it will be
without them, we don't
stop walking, we
know
there is far to
go, sometimes
we think the
night wind carries
a smell of the
sea...
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * not a
competent beat *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Vote For
FERNANDA PIVANO SENATRICE A VITA.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Al Presidente della
Repubblica Italiana
on. Oscar Luigi
Scalfaro.
"Egregio
Presidente,
visto l'articolo
59 della Costituzione della Repubblica italiana vogliamo proporLe di prendere
in considerazione la nomina di senatrice a vita di Fernanda Pivano.
Fernanda Pivano,
che compie quest'anno ottanta anni, ha dedicato la vita alla cultura e con il
suo impegno di scrittrice e traduttrice ha contribuito a far conoscere la
cultura e la letteratura americana, a valorizzare autori altrimenti sconosciuti
in Italia ed a qualificare la cultura italiana in America. Considerata in tutto
il mondo un simbolo della cultura italiana, riteniamo sia doveroso riconoscerle
questi altissimi meriti che hanno illustrato la nostra Patria".
Chi volesse
sottoscrivere questo appello aggiungendo il proprio nome puo' indirizzare a:
(address)
Gaia Maschi
via di Propaganda 16
00187 ROMA
ITALIA
(text)
"
FERNANDA PIVANO E' UNA GRANDE ITALIANA,
SIGNOR PRESIDENTE
"
(end text)
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*
Allen Ginsberg,
The Hydrogen Jukebox
Traduzione di
Fernanda Pivano (1968)
"Jukebox
all'idrogeno",
Jack Kerouac, On
the Road,
Traduzione di
Fernanda Pivano (1959)
"Sulla
Strada"
*
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Caro
diario.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear diary,
i today have read
a very poetic phrase in "On the Road": "climbing trees to get
into attics of buddies where he spent days
reading or hiding
from the
law" written by jack keroauc depicting the life of NEAL CASSADY, reading or hiding
very poetic
reading or hiding
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
ceasefire #3
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
im'
pathfinder
ranger
sojourner
im' thinking
Shhh Shhh
Uhmm Uhmm
is there life?
is there
intellingent
life?
im' back
my name is
sojourner
Shhh Shhh
Uhmm Uhmm
Shhh Shhh
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: ...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970708235422_-1829546063@emout04.mail.aol.com>
References:
dear friends,
...
with mother
finally ******, and the last fantastic ...
maybe it so
happens that Allen Ginsberg didn't he want another accuse of obscenity?
keep in mind that
also Jack Kerouac changed names with pseudonyms rightly or wrongly, to not
offended some people characterized in his works,
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * a not
competent beat *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: God
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970707180941.0069b81c@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
References:
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970707205654Z-279@sd-mail.sd.oee s.com>
At 18.09 07/07/97
-0400, Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU> wrote:
> There is no "God." Case
closed. --Sara ...
eli
eli lamma lamma sabachtani
... --allen ginsberg,
howl, I
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Wed
blues.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
priest
confessor
u get
married
my confessor
an angel
has pissed
on my head
my imaginary
friend
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Life
after the ***th.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
ahem ahem
i aint' ready
Father
my dad's car
is
better
than
yr Dad's car
i take note that
howl by allen ginsberg is a bloody poem
when i read times ago
i havent' the same eyes
i have now,
right! but now just when i read howl&kaddish i
see cutted heads & blood everywhere
5.30 a.m. thu
i aint' ready i aint' ready
i have a vision i see i
aint ready
6:00 a.m. thu
i sing in my mind
a nursery rhyme
i aint' readY!
6:00 a.m. thu
6:00 a.m. thu
6:00 am thu
6:00 am thu
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * ciao *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: who is
MemBabe?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
i wrote:
help
MemBabe@aol.com
wrote:
>que pasa?
>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beat
poet jack kerouac on CD && mM
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Beatspotting at
Melody Maker, june 28, 1997, at page #29, i found this ''ad'' poem:
"
MUTE COMMUNION
Patrick Jones, Rev Press
12:06:97
I am critic
I am corrupt
I have blood of countless
generations of artists on my h@nds
I am not sotty
the INK
spills from my h@nds and causes
tears to flow ceaselessly like a stern
m@nic street preachers fan's mum
read read
this read this
and you will find
three seconds meaning in a book of
non/sense
your approval
means nothing to me
to me means nothing
nothing means to me would
would would that I could
extract any meaning
i recently bought the collected
works of famous beat poet jack
kerouac on CD
and even that
even that,
laughable as it seemed set to the
jazzy textures of the blown sax
was
genius
compared to this, this the second
anthology of work from Nicky
Wire-endorsed Ninenties beat poet
successor EXCESSor patrick
jones
INK drips from my pen onto
sullen pages of white
i fear for the youth's/ future
you can purchase this TWO
POUNDS from rev press,
10 coronation rd blackwood NP2
1EA/ wales
i do not not
NOT recommend
it/ it is
b
o
l
l
o
c
k
s
E(vere)TT TRUE
"
---
yrs
Rinaldo. * Da! Da! DaDa i love you! *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Dean
Moriarty & cars.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
i quote from ''On
The Road'' ..."Friday night beyond all doubt the three of us - the old
threesome of Carlo, Dean, and Sal - must go to the midget auto races, and for
that I can get us a ride from a guy downtown I know...",
in italian
"midget car" was translated as "microvettura", ("Sulla
strada", 1959), but im' a bit confused cos micro is a prefix for
infinitesimally little, i dont' know what kind of car was involved in races in
America during 1947, & at the moment in Italy a "microvettura" is
like those little toys (just so tiny car) operated by remote control, any idea
'bout "midget car"?
cari saluti,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
btw Enrico Caruso (Naples 1873 - Naples 1921),
was the first opera singer who recorded on
disk his
own performances.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
untangled
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Yuri
got up on the morning
Yuri has asked me if i existed
& on the moon had snowed
i have answered all exist
Yuri passed hours
listened to music on the radio
Yuri The Parrot
now
looks at with eyes of lizard
(without tail)
in
the ruined house
(tacit order of demolition
next morning)
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Alice
(lyric/song) by Francesco De Gregori.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
------------------------------------------------------------
Alice (song)
by Francesco De Gregori
Alice guarda i
gatti Alice looks at the cats e i
gatti guardano il sole and the cats look
at the sun mentre il mondo sta while the world
[girando senza fretta [be turning without hurry
Irene e' li' al
quarto piano Irene lives on the fourth
floor lei e' li' tranquilla e she
is there calm [si guarda allo specchio [and looks at oneself in the mirror e si
accende and again she catches fire
[un'altra sigaretta [a
cigarette
e Lili' Marlene and more beautiful
[bella piu' che mai [Lili Marlene that never lei sorride she smiles you
[non ti dice la sua eta' [she doesn't tell his age ma tutto questo but all this
[Alice non lo sa [Alice doesn't know it
E io non ci sto' And I am against it
[piu' grido' lo sposo [the bridegroom shouted e poi tutti pensarono and then all thought [dietro i cappelli [behind the hats
lo sposo e'
impazzito the bridegroom goes
crazy [oppure ha bevuto [or he is drunk
ma la sposa
aspetta but the bride is pregnant [un
figlio
e lui lo sa and he knows it
non e' cosi' che
se ne andra' it is not as that if he will
go away
Alice guarda i
gatti Alice looks at the cats e i
gatti muoiono nel sole and the cats die in
the sun mentre il sole while the sun gradually draws near [a poco a poco si avvicina
E Cesare perduto And Cesare lost in the rain [nella pioggia
sta aspettando da
sei ore he is waiting for 6 hours [il suo amore ballerina [his love ballerina e lui rimane li' and
he stays there
[a bagnarsi ancora un po' [to get wet a few still e il tram di
mezzanotte and the midnight bus
goes away [se ne va
ma tutto questo but all this
[Alice non lo sa [Alice doesn't know it
E io non credo
piu' And I believe
[i pazzi siete voi [the crazy persons are you e poi tutti pensarono and then all thought [dietro i cappelli [behind the hats
lo sposo e'
impazzito the bridegroom goes
crazy [oppure ha bevuto [or he is drunk
ma la sposa
aspetta but the bride is pregnant [un
figlio
e lui lo sa and he knows it
non e' cosi' che
se ne andra' it is not as that if he will
go away
Alice guarda i
gatti Alice looks at the cats e i
gatti girano nel sole and the cats walk
under the sun mentre il sole fa while
the sun makes love to the moon [l'amore
con la luna
e il mendicante arabo and the Arabic beggar non ti chiede mai
pane doesn't ask you but [mai pane o carita' [bread or charity e
ancora un posto and still a
place
[per dormire non ce l'ha [for sleep he doesn't have ma tutto questo but all this
[Alice non lo sa [Alice doesn't know
it
E io non voglio and I don't want
[piu' grido' lo sposo [the bridegroom shouted e poi tutti pensarono and then all thought [dietro i cappelli [behind the hats
lo sposo e'
impazzito the bridegroom has
maddened [oppure ha bevuto [or he has drunk
ma la sposa
aspetta but the bride is pregnant [un
figlio
e lui lo sa and he knows it
non e' cosi' che
se ne andra' it is not as that if he will
go away
---
yrs
Rinaldo. *countercultural italian song from the late
70s* ------------------------------------------------------------ To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: An
Illiterate Impression of Visions of Cody
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901aff0a83dfcbd@[198.5.212.52]>
References:
<970714113837_-2044436868@emout17.mail.aol.com>
douglas &
beati interested:
<<maestro
di color che sanno>>=Master of Sage its' referred to a person who is the
best in the knowledge btw im' not sure but i think joyce parafrased a verse by
Dante Alighieri "Divina Commedia", the work joyce liked alot, perhaps
a tribute to San Tommaso D'Aquino the Great Theological Medieval Master,
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
* Kerouac gave to
Neal Cassady the first "On The Road" copy printed but Neal Cassady
didn't demonstrate any interest to the book * again ciao.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: An
Illiterate Impression of Visions of Cody
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<UPMAIL14.199707151401400303@msn.com>
References:
Sherri &
amici beati,
check Ann
Charters' foreword in
Jack KEROUAC
"THE LEGEND OF DULUOZ"
COMPILATION
COPYRIGHT (c) THE ESTATE OD STELLA KEROUAC, JOHN SAMPAS LITERARY
REPRESENTATIVE; AND JAN KEROUAC, 1995
Ann Charters
quoted (i have the italian translation): "Nel 1957, quando il suo vecchio
amico Neal Cassady e uno scatolone di libri inviatogli dall'editore arrivarono
contemporaneamente nel suo appartamento di Berkeley, Kerouac diede la prima
copia di "Sulla strada" appena pubblicato a Cassady, protagonista del
libro. In "Angeli di desolazione" Kerouac scrisse che quando Cassady
se ne ando' "Per la prima volta nelle nostre vite non mi guardo' negli
occhi salutandomi, ma distolse lo sguardo- non lo capii allora e non lo capisco
adesso- sapevo che qualcosa stava per andare storto e ando' storto
davvero" [translated by Maria Giulia Castagnone]
if i read in
absent-minded tell me why,
ciao a tutti,
---
yrs
Rinaldo. *a not competent beet*
At 13.56 15/07/97
UT, Sherri wrote:
>* Kerouac
gave to Neal Cassady the first "On The Road" copy printed
>but Neal
Cassady didn't demonstrate any interest to the book *
>again ciao.
>
>do any of you
know anything about this? was this the
beginning of the rift
>between them?
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(FWD)Allen Ginsberg: Shadow Changes Into Bone, Vol 1, #5
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Subject:
Allen Ginsberg: Shadow Changes Into Bone, Vol 1, #5
>
>*--------------------------------------------------------*
>* SHADOW CHANGES INTO BONE *
>* THE CLEARINGHOUSE FOR ALL THINGS
GINSBERG *
>* http://www.ginzy.com *
>*
*
>* **VERY** OCCASIONAL
NEWSLETTER *
>* VOLUME 1, NUMBER 5 -
7/15/1997 *
>* current subscribers: 230 *
>*---------------------------------------------------------
>* This occasional newsletter is sent to those
who have *
>* visited our Ginsberg site. If you do not wish to *
>* receive these very rare messages, simply hit
reply *
>* and type REMOVE in the subject line. We'll have you *
>* taken off the list immediately! To be added to the *
>* mailing list, just drop us a line: *
>*--------------------------------------------------------*
>* mongo.bearwolf@dartmouth.edu *
>*--------------------------------------------------------*
>*
*
>* PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY!!!!! *
>* *
>*--------------------------------------------------------*
>
>
>IN THIS
ISSUE:
>
> Mongo Sez...
> Events Listings
> - Boston Radio Reading of HOWL!
> "Gilly" Howls over WERE Program
Cancellation
> Portland Event Remembered
> - Transcript of trial sought
> Vegas Memorial Remembered
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>******* MONGO SEZ...
*******
>------------------------------
>
>Hi Folks!
>
>Yeah, long
time no newsletter! Blame it on a
personal life that has
>been way to
full lately, and not a summer just too beautiful to spend in
>front of the
computer...
>
>Still, stuff
has been happening, and I wanted to get a quick newsletter
>out.
>
>The big news,
which you'll find below, concerns the upcoming radio
>reading of
'Howl' on Friday! Allen dreamed and
planned for years to
>have a
station challenge the FCC "safe harbor" hours by broadcasting
>Howl during
prime time. Now it seems that a station
in Bostin is taking
>up the
challenge. The reading sounds excellent,
and I'm (luckily) going
>to be in
Boston that day. I'll be trying to tune
in, and let you know
>of any
aftermath.
>
>In a related
story, see the piece that follows about Gilly's reading of
>'Howl'. Some brave folks lead the way. Others punish those who dare to
>lead...
>
>I have also
received a couple of nice remembrances written about
>memorial
services held in Portland and Las Vegas, contributed by
>correspondents. Now that the memorials have pretty much
dwindled away,
>there aren't
a lot of events to announce. So if you
hear of any, please
>let me
know. I'll get them on the web page and
out via this mailing
>list.
>
>Several
people responded to my call for those interested in
>participating
in an on-line Allen Ginsberg discussion group.
>Unfortunately,
it wasn't quite enough to make it worth doing yet. If we
>can find just
a few more folks, I'll get the list set up and
>operational. I feel we need to have at least 15-20 folks
on line to
>make it
interesting and self sustaining (and to justify the $20 a month
>it will cost
me)!
>
>Best wishes
to you all, and do keep in touch!
>
>--Mongo
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>******* EVENTS LISTINGS *******
>---------------------------------
>
>I'll post
these notices as soon as they come in. If you have an event,
>write to me:
mongo.bearwolf@dartmouth.edu
>
>
>----------------------------------
>BOSTON, MA
(and surrounding area):
>----------------------------------
>
>A Radio
Reading of HOWL
>Friday, July
18
>
>On July 18,
there is going to be a complete reading of HOWL on WFNX.
>Included
readers are Robert Pinsky, Frank Bidart, Gail Mazur, Elsa
>Dorfman,
Harvey Silverglate, Lloyd Schwartz. This reading during prime
>time is a
memorial tribute to Allen, who was obsessed with the fact that
>the FCC
wouldn't allow HOWL over the airwaves in prime time.
>
>We would like
OTHER radio stations in the country to also air HOWL
>during prime
time.
>
>-- Elsa
Dorfman
>Portrait
Photographer
>607 Franklin
Street
>Cambridge MA
02139-2923
>http://elsa.photo.net
>elsad
@world.std.com
>
>
>** [The
Following is culled from a Boston Globe article. --M]
>
>WFNX TO AIR
'HOWL" DESPITE FCC
>by Susan
Bickelhaput, Globe Staff
>
>WFNX-FM
(101.7) owner Stephan Mindich insists that it's not his
>intention to
thumb his nose at the Federal Communications Commission
>next week
when the station airs a reading of the Poems "Howl," by the
>late Allen
Ginsberg
>
>But Mindich
does acknowledge that he is pushing the envelope.
>
>The poem,
written by Ginsberg in 1955, has never been aired on
>commercial
radio to Mindich's knowledge, and along with George Carlin's
>"seven
dirty words" was flagged by the FCC in the late 1960s as verboten
>broadcast
material.
>
>But the staff
of WFNX organized a half-hour-long reading of the poem in
>May at Mama
Kin, and will broadcast it next Friday from 6 to 7 pm. News
>director
Henry Santoro will host the show, which will also feature
>commentary by
Robert Pinsky, Peter Wolf, Gail Mazur, Harvey Silvergate,
>Lloyd
Schwartz, Elsa Dorfman, and Mindich, among others.
>
>"We
don't want to do this strictly to challenge the FCC, that wasn't the
>grand
plan," said program director Bill Glasser, "But we want to air the
>work as a
tribute to Allen Ginsberg." So the
poem will not be relegated
>to the FCC's
"safe harbor," which rules that so-called indecent
>programming
can only air between 10 pm and 6 am.
>
>Mindich said
"Howl," which is a "very direct and complex poem about
>Allen's world
view and experiences," contains language that "most
>newspapers
would dot out and most broadcasters would bleep out." It is
>the contex,
he said, that makes it acceptable.
>
>He said the
idea stemmed from a conversation with Boston Phoenix editor
>Peter Kadzis
and photographer Dorfman.
>
>"We knew
there could be a problem with the language, but I just don't
>think this is
outside of the [FCC] standards," Mindich said. "My
>purpose isn't
to challenge the FCC, but I do believe that prime time is
>a value time
when adult listeners will tune in. And
there is a clear
>delineation
between that which is art and that which isn't.
>
>Mindich, who
also is published of the alternative weekly Boston Phoenix,
>said he also
sees a relationship "between the DNA" of the paper and the
>station. "Over the years we have pushed the
envelope with things we
>thought had
artistic merit," he said.
>
>He added that
since the station is not publicly owned, he is prepared to
>deal with the
consequences.
>
>"We are
a medium to communicate, and I can make that decision," he
>said. "I don't have to worry about Wall Street
or what a board of
>directors
will say. If there is a FCC problem, I
will deal with it."
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>****
"GILLY" HOWLS OVER WERE PROGRAM CANCELLATION ****
>------------------------------------------------------
>
>*[Contributed
by a correspondent --M]
>
>Even in
death, Allen Ginsberg is causing problems. The feisty beat
>generation
poet, who died earlier this year, was the topic of the April
>20
"Gilly Show," a highly rated overnight program on WERE AM 1300. A
>reading from
Ginsberg's poem "Howl" led to the cancellation of the
>program,
allegedly in response to a single telephone complaint received
>by the
station Wednesday, April 23.
>
>During the
final half hour of the late-night program, Gilly (Rick
>Gilmour), the
show's host, read section I from the acclaimed poem in
>tribute to
Ginsberg. In advance of the reading, which contained a
>reference to
sodomy, the station provided a warning to listeners that
>the program's
content may contain objectionable language.
>
>Gilmour, who
has had his own show on the station since June, 1996,
>contests that
WERE management gave assurance months ago that the only
>grounds for
cancellation of "The Gilly Show" would be for violation of
>the FCC's
Safe Harbor Policy, which allows for use of certain taboo
>words during
off-peak airtime hours, if used in a socially redeeming
>context.
>
>The portion
of the poem which drew objection refers to people, "... who
>let
themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly motorcyclists and
>screamed with
joy ..." Gilmour maintains no violations ever occurred on
>any broadcast
of the program, which was pulled from WERE's lineup the
>day after
Gilmour was notified "The Gilly Show" was the station's top
>program.
>
>"We
didn't break FCC policy, and station management never clearly laid
>out a policy
for board operators," Gilmour told SCENE, absolving
>coworkers for
not censoring the broadcast. "Nobody knows what the line
>is. I wanted
to draw a line, and that's why I did it."
>
>"I don't
know what all the fuss is about," said WERE Station Manager
>John Hill,
citing company policy and not FCC rules as the reason for the
>show's
demise. "We have six or seven easy-to-follow rules, and what
>Gilly did was
one of the things you can't do."
>
>According to
Gilmour, management called the station "too conservative"
>for
"that kind of language," and said Gilmour should have known better.
>"My
audience is pretty progressive," he responded. "I even had old women
>that would
call."
>
>The move
doesn't effect Gilmour's Saturday program, "Beer Talk," which
>will continue
in its 10 p.m. time slot on WERE. "I'm certainly not going
>to penalize
him for the 'Beer Talk' show -- in fact, I'm not penalizing
>him, at
all," Hill said, amazed by the attention the subject has gained
>in the past
week. "You'd think we just canceled the 'Seinfeld' show."
>
>And while
Hill insisted "The Gilly Show" will not return to WERE,
>Gilmour sees
things differently.
>
>"Do I
expect to get my show back?" Gilmour said. "Yes, because I've
>given WERE
more publicity for them screwing me out of my job than they
>could
buy."
>
> http://www.clevescene.com/970501/make0501.htm
>
>
>----------------------------------------------
>******* PORTLAND MEMORIAL REMEMBERED *******
>----------------------------------------------
>
>From:
Andi5757@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 5
Jun 1997 23:14:08 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject:
hello from Portland, Oregon
>
>well
yesterday here in Portland there was a memorial reading done for
>Allen on the
occasion of his birthday. It was held at
Powell's
>bookstore,
the major independent new and used bookstore in Portland,
>which carries
on in its own way the spirit of City Lights bookstore.
>
>The readings
of Allen's work were done by a half dozen or more local
>Portland
poets who also shared reminiscences of their brief encounters
>with Allen
over the years. The reading was attended
by oh i'd say about
>70 to 100
people.
>The readers
had fun reading and for an hour an a half i would say that
>the spirit of
playfulness, sensuality, and authentic outrage and wonder
>that Allen
represents to people was alive.
>
>One reading
in particular was very moving to me. It
came from the
>transcript of
the Chicago 7 trial in 1969 as an aftermath of the 1968
>democratic
convention in Chicago. Allen was called
to testify in the
>trial. The prosecution's cross examination included
an exchange
>something
like: " and what did you do when you thought there was going
>to be
violence? Allen well I Omed? You omed?
yes like this and then
>Allen
proceeds to do a half dozen om's. Upon
which there is an
>objection
which causes the judge to say we'll strike from the record the
>Om's after
the second Om.
>
>then Allen is
able to recite a poem about Whitman which was from reality
>sandwiches
which was increadibly sensuous. Allen
was asked byt he
>prosecution
what he meant by that poem, hoping to discredit him by as a
>queer. But Allen gives this incredibly moving reply
something to the
>effect that
until America can come to terms with its attitudes about
>sexuality
that it could not be healed from the horrors of war etc.
>
>if you know
of a way to find that exact passage in the trial's
>transcript, I
>would really
like to get a copy of his testimony in that trial...
>
>love
>andi
>
>
>-------------------------------------------
>******* VEGAS MEMORIAL REMEMBERED *******
>-------------------------------------------
>
>From: Bruce K. Isaacson, 102747,2722
>DATE: 6/14/97 4:39 PM
>RE: Ginsberg Night at Enigma Garden, Las
Vegas, Nevada
>
>For your
information.....
>
>June 3, 1997
was Allen Ginsberg's 71st birthday. On
that evening, a
>group of 60
or so Las Vegas poets, writers, artists, bohos, and other
>illuminati
turned out to remember Allen and honor his work and
>contribution. There were notable poems commemorating
Allen's work from
>German
Santanilla and Gregory Crosby. Dayvid
Figler got the crowd
>bubbling with
his own work and brought an excellent version of Allen
>reading
"America", which held the audience intensely with its Vegas-like
>mix of humor
and ennui. Emmanuel read Allen's poem
written to an
>Eldorado High
School student, which contains a visionary mix of Howard
>Hughes-like
paranoia and old-fashioned Mob lore to
describe Vegas of
>the 70s and
America still. Other parts of Allen's
work read included
>Ignu and
Kaddish. Tribute poems to Allen by
excellent poets who Allen
>favored such
as Bob Kaufman and Helen Adam were also read aloud. There
>was a score
of Allen's books passed around by various people who brought
>them,
including some limited editions as well as City Lights and Harper
>& Row
publications. Las Vegas poets who read
also included Art Slate,
>Eavonka
Ettinger, Joel Parilini, Mike Gullickson, Mike Flower, Jackie
>Nourigat,
Mark Griffith and Gloria King. A good
time was had by all
>who attended
and many came away with increased interest in one of
>America's
unique and excellent voices.
>
>Thanks to Las
Vegas journalist and Enigma Cafe owner Lenadams Doris for
>making it
possible. I'd welcome hearing from
anyone with other
>remembrances
or comment.
>
>Bruce
Isaacson
>BruceI@compuserve.com
>Within a few
weeks I expect the e-mail address to change to
>BruceI@skylink.net
>
>
>*--------------------------------------------------------*
>* This occasional newsletter is sent to those
who have *
>* visited our Ginsberg site. If you do not wish to *
>* receive these very rare messages, simply hit
reply *
>* and type REMOVE in the subject line. We'll get you *
>* taken off the list immediately! To be added to the *
>* mailing list, just drop us a line: *
>*--------------------------------------------------------*
>* mongo.bearwolf@dartmouth.edu *
>*--------------------------------------------------------*
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Gianni
Versace.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
COME VORREI MORIRE by Gianni Versace
COME IL CONTE SALINA DI LAMPEDUSA,
IL
GATTOPARDO: GUARDANDO
IL
LAGO, CON SERENITA'.
LA
MORTE NON MI FA PAURA.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: tired
dog tired haiku
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
O
only
4
years
span
!
---
yrs
Rinaldo * a beet
needs water *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: John Coltrane.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"You know, I
want to be a force for real good. In other words, I know that there are bad
forces, forces put here that bring suffering to others and misery to the world,
but I want to be the force which is truly good." -- John Coltrane (from an
interview by Frank Kofsky) To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: A Love
Supreme
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"God
breathes through us so completely...
so gently we
hardly feel it...yet,
it is our
everything.
Thought waves -
heat waves -
all vibrations -
all paths lead to God.
The universe has
many wonders.
ELATION -
ELEGANCE - EXALTATION -
All from God.
Thank you God. Amen
-John ColtraneTo:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Style
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199707181920.MAA27313@freya.van.hookup.net>
References:
At 12.20 18/07/97
-0700, James William Marshall wrote:
>Beatniks,
>comments
would be appreciated.
>
>
James M.
>
Stifling heat
the people turn the head
to the right & to the left
like walkin'pigeons
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: An
Illiterate Impression of Visions of Cody
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33D03C10.234F@pacbell.net>
References:
<1.5.4.16.19970718011355.282f08bc@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
At 21.01 18/07/97
-0700, James Stauffer writes: [i snip for brevity]
> And Vidal,
as you note, is a terrible
>witness
anyway. I am suprised he hasn't claimed
to have slept with any
>now dead
popes. It would suit his style.
>...
james & amici
beati,
last night, Vidal
interviewed by domestic italian TV Rai Corporation in Rome, about sexuality
& arts & artists, asserted that's right alot of artists (included
writers ie. Proust) are/was not eterosex, but this is have nothing to do with
creativity, Vidal asserted "sex is not related with creativity but anyone
has a feminine-self", he was moderate & amiable, (however not
iconoclast), ---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Finis
Europae (poem).
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Finis Europae.
Finis Europae.
Finis Europae.Finis Europae.
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae.
WORKERS OF ALL LANDS
UNITE
KARL MARX
THE PHILOSOPHERS HAVE ONLY
INTERPRETED THE WORLD IN
VARIOUS WAYS. THE POINT
HOWEVER IS TO CHANGE IT.
Finis
Europae?Finis Europae?Finis Europae?Finis Europae?
THE POINT
HOWEVER IS TO CHANGE IT.
Finis Europae.
Finis Europae!
KARL MARX
KARL MARX
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae?
Finis Europae.
VARIOUS WAYS. THE POINT
HOWEVER IS
Finis Europae.
Finis Europae!
the point
the point is
finis Europae!
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*Writers have
been dealing with the inevitability of death since Homer and the Biblical
writers.--James Stauffer* To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: To
Sleep. To Sleep.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Ma' Pa'
il bacino
della
buonanotte,
Ma' Pa'
a kiss before
going to sleep
in the nite
Ma' Pa'
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Gregorio
Nunzio Corso.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear beat-Ls,
the book
"Selected Poems 1947-1995" by Allen Ginsberg has been dedicated by
ALLEN GINSBERG to GREGORIO NUNZIO CORSO.
-----
btw: some days
ago somebody wrote:
<<But
Thursday he was much weaker, he [Allen Ginsberg] could hobble from bed to chair
only with difficulty. There was a phonecall from Italy, in the middle of it
Allen begins to vomit, throws up right there on the phone!
"Funny,"
he says, "never done that before.">>
i must thank the
writer of a similar anecdote and notice his chord in the comparisons of the
dying poet...
---
yrs Rinaldo.
*
Luciano Pavarotti
defendant of don't know the musical notes he told that ENRICO CARUSO told that
for be a good opera singer you need a good memory.
*
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(FWD)Another Short Interview with William S. Burroughs
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
>Date: Fri, 25
Jul 1997 10:18:29 -0800
>From: bofus?
<bofus@fcom.com>
>To:
bofus@fcom.com
>Subject:
Another Short Interview with William S. Burroughs
>
>rwhitebone@juno.com
(Ron P Whitehead) wrote:
>>
>>
>> WILL OUR MAYOR GIVE BACK WILLIAM BURROUGHS'
>> CAR?
>>
>> Interview with William S. Burroughs (one of
>> many interviews, articles, letters, poems,
>> photographs, & audio to be included in
>> WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS: Calling The Toads, a
>> Published in Heaven Book to be released
>> late summer early fall by the literary
>> renaissance & Ring Tarigh)
>>
>> by Ron Whitehead and Peter Orr
>>
>> New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial, whose police
>> department has included convicted murderers
>> Antoinette Frank and Len Davis, has been
>> invited to dedicate a plaque this summer
>> ('96) to mark 509 Wagner Street in Algiers
>> as the onetime home of William S. Burroughs.
>>
>> In the late 1940s, years before his
>> literary success, Burroughs moved here with
>> his wife after selling his farm in Texas. A
>> vague sentence in Barry Miles' rather
>> informal biography, EL HOMBRE INVISIBLE,
>> might lead some readers to believe that the
>> financial loss on Burroughs' first crop of
>> pot inspired him to move. "That's
>> inaccurate," Burroughs says. "I was
moving
>> anyway." Though he recalls doing
"quite a
>> bit" of writing during his brief stint
>> here, he would not embark on his first
>> novel, JUNKY, until a year after he left.
>>
>> Knowing Burroughs through his later work,
>> one would expect him to hang out in or near
>> the French Quarter, rather than rustic
>> Algiers. Instead his choice of neighborhood
>> reflected his lifestyle during that era: He
>> had a wife and newborn son.
>>
>> "It was a hell of a lot cheaper. The
real
>> estate there was cheap at that time.
>> Probably still is," he says. "I got
that
>> house for seven thousand-something." As
for
>> the rest of the city, he has few memories to
>> share. "I didn't get around too
much."
>>
>> Yet he got around enough to get busted.
>> Only the NOPD's failure to obey legal
>> procedure in searching Burroughs' house
>> kept him out of Angola. (Picture him
>> writing NAKED LUNCH in Dickens-style
>> installments for Wilbert Rideau's THE
>> ANGOLITE. While you're at it, picture the
>> warden rescinding Rideau's permission to
>> print anything, ever.) A second drug
>> offense in Louisiana would have sent him
>> away, so he packed up his family and left.
>> That was nearly 50 years ago.
>>
>> The author, who spoke to TRIBE after
>> recording JUNKY for audio release, did not
>> plan to attend the plaque ceremony, though
>> event organizers have discussed his
>> participating from Lawrence, Kansas, via
>> video linkup.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this the first time that a place where
>> you lived or worked has been declared a
>> landmark?
>>
>> WSB: As far as I know, yes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Was any of the writing you produced there
>> ever published?
>>
>> WSB: I don't know about that. I'm not sure
>> to say where I wrote this or that, but I
>> certainly did some writing there. As far as
>> how much of it was subsequently published, I
>> have no idea which specific works were
>> written there, or partly written there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Traditionally, people across the South and
>> the Midwest see this city as either
>> romantic or depraved. What impression did
>> you have of New Orleans while you grew up
>> in St. Louis?
>>
>> WSB: No impression of it at all. Not that I
>> know of. No, I... [Thinks] No, I don't
>> recall any ideas about New Orleans at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> The New Orleans police arrested you for
>> having someone with pot in your car, but
>> they charged you with heroin possession.
>>
>> WSB: That's right. They found stuff in my
>> house. They never laid a finger on me, that
>> I recall. They did lead me to believe that
>> someone was a federal agent and he wasn't.
>> He was a city cop. And so there was an
>> illegal search. I didn't know it at the
>> time.
>>
>> When I was arrested, there was somebody
>> with me that I hardly knew. He was just
>> introduced to me. And he had one joint on
>> him. He'd thrown out some larger amount, I
>> think, but the little guy had another joint
>> and they caught it right away. Then the next
>> day they went and they took my car. I never
>> got it back, although I wasn't convicted.
>> See, they can confiscate your property even
>> though you're not convicted of anything.
>> That's really very sinister.
>>
>> There were three people [aside from
>> Burroughs, who was driving] in the car. Two
>> of them were well-known to the police - Joe
>> Ricks and somebody else. So they saw him in
>> the car, and he had another guy with him
>> that I didn't know, who had a joint with
>> him. So they stopped the car on the stength
>> of knowing the other people that were with
>> me. Then they found a joint on this guy.
>> And they gave us all hell.
>>
>>
>>
>> Where did the police arrest you?
>>
>> WSB: It was near Lee Circle. That's all I
>> know. They wouldn't have stopped us except
>> that they recognized these two people, who
>> had long records, long drug records. Not
>> the guy who had a joint on him - he was a
>> seaman, an acquaintance of these people.
>>
>> They confiscated my car on the strength of
>> someone I didn't know having something I
>> didn't know he had. They're getting much,
>> much, much worse in that respect:
>> confiscation with no conviction.
>>
>>
>>
>> To give you an idea of how much progress
>> this city has made, our district attorney
>> wants to start mandatory urine tests for
>> all students in New Orleans public high
>> schools.
>>
>> WSB: It's ridiculous, for God's sakes. I
>> think it's terrible. The whole thing, the
>> whole War On Drugs, seems to me to be a
>> shallow pretense to increase police power
>> and personnel, and confiscation.
>>
>>
>>
>> It also limits black political power. More
>> than half of inner-city black men come of
>> age with felony convictions now, due to
>> cocaine or weapons arrests. Felons can't
>> vot.
>>
>> WSB: Exactly. I hadn't thought of that, but
>> it's very true. I don't see the difference
>> between crack and cocaine, myself. They
>> talk about cocaine addicts, and I never
>> encountered such a thing. Heroin addicts
>> and morphine addicts, to be sure, but never
>> a cocaine addict.
>>
>>
>>
>> By strict definition, cocaine isn't
>> addictive.
>>
>> WSB: No, it isn't, as I can see. I used to
>> shoot, forty or fifty years ago, [pauses to
>> recall the name] speedballs, which were a
>> mixture of cocaine and morphine or heroin.
>> Cocaine alone, I don't like; it makes me
>> edgy. I don't like anything that makes my
>> hand shake, or cuts my appetite.
>>
>>
>>
>> There's a lot of cocaine down here.
>>
>> WSB: Lot of it everywhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> In recent years you've spoken openly about
>> your interest in magic. Is writing a form
>> of magic?
>>
>> WSB: Well, it has a certain relationship,
>> yes. It's evocative magic. It attempts to
>> evoke certain feelings in the reader. In
>> that sense, it's evocative magic. Thing is,
>> some writing has magic in it and some don't
>> [laughs]. Like, Fitzgerald has magic, and
>> Somerset Maugham just doesn't. I'm using
>> the term rather loosely.
>>
>>
>>
>> But isn't any technology magical, at least
>> at first? The advent of writing changed the
>> world more than anything else has since.
>>
>> WSB: Well...in the sense that it makes
>> something happen, yes, it's magic. But it's
>> still a loose use of the term. Because,
>> uh...well, for example, Alesiter Crowley
>> may have been a good black magician, but he
>> wasn't a very good writer. I can't read it
>> straight through, anything by Aleister
>> Crowley.
>>
>> Here's an interesting thing about Crowley:
>> Someone wrote a book called THEY WENT
>> THATAWAY, about the way different people
>> had died. An interesting idea, because they
>> had just a short biography and then how a
>> person died. Poor Cole Porter had a
>> terrible time - he had his legs amputated
>> at the hip, and then he set his bed on fire
>> with a cigarette and died in the hospital.
>>
>> Now, this story got put out by the
>> Crowleyites that his doctor had refused to
>> renew his heroin prescription, and that
>> Crowley put a curse on him; the doctor died
>> the next day, and Crowley died the day
>> after. Now, that's the story. That story
>> was repeated in an edition of this book,
>> and when I tried to get the book again,
>> that story had been deleted. In fact, the
>> whole book had been somehow cashiered, and
>> there's another one, HOW'D THEY DIE?
>>
>>
>>
>> The first book disappeared?
>>
>> WSB: Yes, and then another one came out.
>> The first one was called THEY WENT
>> THATAWAY. It seems to have disappeared from
>> my own bookshelves, as well. Can't put my
>> hand on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I come across it, I'll forward it to you.
>>
>> WSB: By all means! This [newer] one has no
>> Aleister Crowley in it, so I don't know if
>> there's any truth to that story at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rock music doesn't interest you much.
>>
>> WSB: Not terribly, no. I listen to some of
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> And yet, starting with the Soft Machine in
>> 1967, a long list of rock musicians has
>> borrowed from your work.
>>
>> WSB: Oh, well, titles, yeah: Steely Dan,
>> the Soft Machine, the Insect Trust.
>>
>> I went to a performance by the Led Zeppelin
>> and wrote an article about it. That's quite
>> a while ago. Twenty years ago. I forget
>> where it was published; one of the
>> magazines. CRAWDADDY, that's it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hear you've finally recorded JUNKY for
>> audiotape release.
>>
>> WSB: I finished recording it, yes. Well,
>> you know, we've got little follow-up places
>> to go, but it's basically finished. I'm not
>> sure when [it comes out]. It'll be on
>> Penguin Audio Books.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you been back to New Orleans since you
>> left?
>>
>> WSB: Yes, I did a reading down there, but
>> that was quite a few years ago. At Loyola
>> University. It was quite a while ago, a
>> good ten years ago.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems ironic that this should be the
>> first city to commemorate your former home.
>>
>> WSB: Yes, it does, really. I spent about a
>> year there - less than a year, actually.
>>
>>
>>
>> In 1947.
>>
>> WSB: About then, yeah.
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Caffettiera Napoletana...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Caffettiera
Napoletana A. Passeggio (50 anni di esperienza)
found by Beppe
Severgnini 1997 (c)
collected by
William Ward
edited by Rinaldo
Rasa
INTRUCTIONS FOR
THE USE
1) To fill before the inside part of the coffee
pot
of coffee-powder
(5 grams each person)
2) To screw in the filter on the inside-part of
the
coffee-pot.
3) To fill of water the superior-body till the
little hole.
4) Introduce the inside-part of the coffee-pot in
the superior-body
(already filled of water before).
5) Put the coffee-pot with the spout on the
supeior-body and
put it finally on the fire.
6) As soon as the water goes in ebullition, you
will see the
water coming out from coffee-pot, just from
the said little
hole. Now, keep out the coffee-pot from the
fire, upset it
and remain it for some minutes in rest; in
the meantime, the
water will filter and will transform it in a
very exquisite
coffee, and you can serve it too.
It is well known all over the world that
NEAPOLITAN ORIGINAL COFFEE-POT "A
PASSEGGIO"
is the unique to do a very aromatic coffee.
WOOOO-AHH-OHH!
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Eric
Mottram (1924-1995)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear beat-Ls,
Eric Mottram
(1924-1995) is a key figure of post-war literature and teaching. After the work of Charles Olson and Robert
Duncan, Eric Mottram produced one of the most extensive and coherent bodies of
work on late 20th century poetics. He
published over 160 articles and 20 critical works including a collection of
essays on American culture, Blood on the Nash Ambassador and the first
book-length study of William Burroughs' work, The Algebra of Need. He had two dozen collections of poetry
published from the late 1960s onwards including Elegies, A Book of Herne and
Selected Poems.
Mottram was the
first to teach Beat writing in Europe in the 1950s.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Spaghetti Poem.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
spaghetti spaghetti
al dente al
dente!
al dente
al dente quality
blended from carefully
selected durum wheat
al dente al
dente!
al dente
cookin'for
the recommended time
gives u
perfect enjoy!
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Robert
Creely (the painting illustrates the poetry).
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
... by
Robert Creely
Inside my head a common room
a common place, a common tune...
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
september song:the music of kurt weill
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199707290341.XAA09328@mailhub.southeast.net>
References:
dear beat-L,
i remember hst's
works like a bunch of bats over a shark car.
words &
vampires. september song in the background.
---
yrs
Rinaldo
*
"Tristo e'
quel discepolo che non avanza il maestro" -- Leonardo da Vinci
*
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: graffiti
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear beat-l,
i found this site
very interesting
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/mostragraf/sullarete/sullarete.html
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 1960s
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
1960s
i myself
sitting in back of the class
precisely!
daze!
SITTING IN BACK OF THE CLASS
oh, im' not here
bleary-eyed
tiny butterflies
pinball & jazz
rage
thanks anyway!
i look around for
a rosy picture
sitting
in back
of the
classroom.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
William Burroughs Is Dead
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970802232627_542130727@emout19.mail.aol.com>
References:
"Something,
someone, some spirit was pursuing all of us across the desert of life and was
bound to catch us before we reached heaven. Naturally, now that I look back on
it, this only death: death will overtake us before heaven. The one thing that
we yearn for in our living days, that makes us sigh and groan and undergo sweet
nauseas of all kinds, is the remembrance of some lost bliss that was probably
experienced in the womb and can only be reproduced (though we hate to admit it)
in death." --- Jack Kerouac.
At 23.26 02/08/97
-0400, Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM> wrote:
>William
Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.
>Cause of
death according to Boston news was a heart attack.
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
William Burroughs Is Dead
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33E47E88.6EBE@midusa.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970803141646.006fddb0@pop.gpnet.it>
David,
the Burroughs
death is televised by the three domestic TV channel, i hope that's appreciate
by William S. Burroughs, who is in paradise!, (broadcasting nationwide, meaning
audience 20 000 000 of italians), in primis the "Catholic" channel
RAI UNO Corporation from Rome, that stated Burroughs tragic life & way of
Life, Burroughs is/was the other side of the "American Dream" &
latin pietas is the message,
Italy
commemorates the countercultural life , 20 millions of my patriots have seen
Burroughs reading in black & white, (his old face), what's better tribute
to the Man! i dunno if this is enuf but i think its' great! beat are popular
alot here & this is immortality,
the tears are
rain, when we are facing the death, & a rino or that black river isnt' as
dangerous as the tears 'cuz here WE CANT' touch on the heaven.
"Sal, where
did you find these absolutely wonderful people?
I've never seen
anyone like them".
"I found
them in the West." --- Jack Kerouac
Rinaldo.
At 07.50 03/08/97
-0500, RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET> wrote:
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>>
"Something, someone, some spirit was pursuing
>> all of
us across the desert of life and was bound to catch us
>> before
we reached heaven. Naturally, now that I look back on
>> it, this
only death: death will overtake us before heaven. The
>> one
thing that we yearn for in our living days, that makes us
>> sigh and
groan and undergo sweet nauseas of all kinds, is the
>>
remembrance of some lost bliss that was probably experienced
>> in the
womb and can only be reproduced (though we hate to
>> admit
it) in death." --- Jack Kerouac.
>>
>> At 23.26
02/08/97 -0400, Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM> wrote:
>>
>William Burroughs Died at the age of 83 today.
>>
>Cause of death according to Boston news was a heart attack.
>> >
>> >
>
>"Now
there are two routes to immortality.
They might be designated as:
>slow down or
speed-up, or straight-ahead or detour.
Reference aphorisms
>of the Old
White Hunter. In the time that you face
death directly, you
>are
immortal. That's the straight-ahead
route. The slow-down detour
>vampire route
-- take a little, leave a little, sure, skim a year off a
>thousand
citizens, they won't know the difference -- but what happens
>when you run
short of citizens, which you will sooner or later? Also,
>speed up
route is a kill route, whereas slow-down is a manipulate,
>degrade,
humiliate, enslave route.
> So how does one face death head on? ...
without flinching and without
>posturing --
which is always to be seen as a form of evasion, runs away,
>like Lord Jim
and Francis Macomber, there is hope.
> . . . a well-known and documented
schism, something familiar about that
>figure moving
farther and farther away. 'Why! Himself!'
Like the song
>say, 'They
don't come back, won't come back, once they're gone . . .'"
>p.119-120 William S. Burroughs, My Education: A Book of
Dreams.
>
>listening to
Lou Reed's "Magic and Loss" cd -- pass through the fire
>right
now. As things are going in fates magic
circles these days, this
>cd could wear
out at any moment.
>
>david rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
>
>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: older
than God
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
this
night summer
i must keep
a tear
looking at
the stars
in the deeper dark
anyone know of
a place
broken
my catholic
hearth
if it's
my time to go
so be it
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: next
reading project
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 08.59 06/08/97
-0700,
"Shannon L.
Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:
>I'm up for
Diane's suggested reading. I have silently started reading On
>the Road for
the first time as a great bang way to start my 27th year.
>
>-shannon (in
Tucson where it is not quite as hot but strangely humid for
>Arizona.)
>
>
dear beats,
how im'/was/'ll
reading the beats,
i was born in
1950, just then in Italy a lot of things were "forbidden", i remember
late 1950 when jazz & jukebox were advised sinful, (i never know why),
& the first comics magazine arrived from US,
& packages of provisionses.
an handshake printed on the
package
in background the flag US of
America.
(or addressed to
my mother my father's letters.
letters tied up
with a cord placed into a drawer, on the envelope stamped POW,
& he told me
first some english words: "Prisoner Of War".)
then during
decenniums the beat literature was my pal, now i turned 47 & beat lit is
again here, it's a summa of a gone age, a dream, a myself's something...
or im' forever
out of one-way beat lit.
sani,
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Nick
Cave Re: Burroughs Webmasters Speak
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199708052141.OAA20855@hsc.usc.edu>
References:
At 14.41 05/08/97
-0700,
"Timothy K.
Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU> wrote: [i snip alot for brevity]
>I was going
to write inked but since it was not ink but pixesl I made upo
>the term
e-ink.
>
>So I would
take credit for coining it,
>
>but,
>
>I decided
that I better check that out so I typed http://www.e-ink.com
>
>to see what
would happen
>
>and there it
was
>
>the e-ink
website
>
>So it was
original to me not wasn't original to the world.
>
>Although,
they are calling themselves electronic ink and claim to be
>"Electric
Ink(c) is the new Electronic Printing & Publishing division of Pilot
>Advertising(c)."
>
Timothy, please,
add to the credits the Nick Cave's book: Nick Cave, "King Ink"
A collection of
lyrics, poems and writings 1978-1986.
sani,
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: A Gay
State.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
dear friends,
at the end of the
1970s William Seward Burroughs wrote an article in which he imagined the
capability of a State for the homosexuals.
he takes the
Chinese TONG as ones's model.
the WSB's article
took as starting point a crime news occured on 27th nov 1978. Harvey Milk, a
San Francisco municipal councillor, was massacred together with the mayor
George Moscone.
Dan White, the
murderer, was convicted at a paltry term of punishment.
after the
shocking sentence, in San Francisco there was a riot,
sani,
Rinaldo.
*
"Un'utopia
fascinosa, ma irrealizabile. In fondo William Burroughs ha sempre avuto un
piede nel futuro. Accadde in un piccolo paese della California verso la fine
degli anni Sessanta. Un gruppo di gay penso' di mettere in piedi una forma di
autogoverno, ma l'iniziativa venne reclamizzata troppo e le autorita' locali
opposero tali difficolta' che l'idea naufrago'. Anche in Italia un illustre
pensatore cattolico si augurava che lo Stato Italiano concedesse ai gay
un'isola disabitata.---Angelo Pezzana interviewed by the newspaper ''la
Repubblica'', 8th aug 1997" *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: A
Gay State.
Cc:
Bcc: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.96.970808125534.22754A-100000@xx.acs.appstate.edu>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970808140247.006fc9b8@pop.gpnet.it>
Alex,
the WSB's article
is written in the book ''Gay Spirit, Mith and Meaning'' by Mark Thompson
printed in 1987, sorry i've no idea 'bout the publishing house,
in the quoted
article, Burroughs whish a Gay State comparing it with Israel (or Israelite
State), i dunno the exact title of the article, but the Burroghs' idea is
matched, i.e. the gay-TONG demands a hard work and discipline, everyone is
defended by patrols working 24 hours a day,
sani tosac,
Rinaldo.
At 12.56 08/08/97
-0400, Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU> wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Aug
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> at the
end of the 1970s William Seward Burroughs wrote an article
>> in which
he imagined the capability of a State for the homosexuals.
>
>Is "A
Gay State" the name of this article?
If not, what is? Where can I
>find it? Has it been published in one of his
books/collections?
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Chinese Tong
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199708090526.NAA12012@soran.pacific.net.sg>
References:
At 13.26 09/08/97
+0800,
Sharon Ngiam
<mimosa@PACIFIC.NET.SG> wrote:
>What is the
Chinese TONG?
>
>
hello,
sorry, i have the
capability to read the Burroughs' article only in italian translation. it's
possibile that TONG spelling is inaccurate (exempli gratia maybe TI-KIANG=the
far tribe, or T'ANG as chinese dynasty). i think WSB is referring to TONG
meaning of fraternity & assistance (but not on the quite).
btw credits
Massimo Consoli, editor in chief of ''Rome Gay News'', who translated the
Burroughs' article. Massimo Consoli takes care of the civil rights of
homosexuals.
http://www.publibyte.it/promo/gc/cronistoria.htm
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Anthony
Balch (1938-1980)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Anthony Balch
(1938-1980) was one of the key figures in British film distribution in the 60s
and 70s, especially because of his distribution of European art-house and
exploitation films under new, captivating titles. Famous for having added a
soundtrack to the classic silent-era documentary, Benjamin Christensen's Häxen
(Witchcraft Through the Ages), with comments by his friend William S Burroughs,
he began his brief foray into directing with Burroughs himself (Towers Open
Fire, The Cut-Ups), and was still obviously influenced by Burroughs in Secrets
of Sex.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD) q:
ranaldo & a: burroughs, 9 april 97
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 11
Aug 1997 06:34:48 -0800
>From: bofus?
<bofus@fcom.com>
>To:
bofus@fcom.com
>Subject: q:
ranaldo & a: burroughs, 9 april 97
>
>William
Burroughs I-View (w/Lee Ranaldo)
>
>9 April 1997
>
>TAPE
TRANSCRIPTION
>
>
>
>Loud dial
tone and faint "Hello, hello?"
>
>Silence
>
>Touch tone
phone tones
>
>ringing 5 or
6 times
>
>WSB: eh, Hello?
>
>LR: Is this William?
>
>WSB: Yeh.
>
>LR: Hi William, this is Lee Ranaldo in New York
City.
>
>WSB: Yeah.
>
>LR: How are ya?
>
>WSB: Oh... okay.
>
>LR: Well you sound pretty good.
>
>WSB: Uh-huh (TECHNICAL GLITCH-garbled)
>
>LR: Good. (static) Okay, I hope that my recording
equipment is all in
>good form
here...
>
>LR: So I wanted to talk to you, for just a few
minutes this afternoon,
>about
Morocco, if you would...
>
>WSB: Just a moment, I gotta get my drink...
>
>LR: Okay. 25 sec silence
>
>LR: Hello? loud buzzing
>
>LR: Hello? rattling
>
>WSB: OK.
>
>LR: Okay, first off, William, I'd like to say
that I was very sad to
>hear about
Allen-I know you guys have been friends for the longest time...
>
>WSB: Yes. Yes, well he knew, he knew it. He faced
it.
>
>LR: It seems like he faced it in a very good way,
actually.
>
>WSB: Yep, he told me-"I thought I'd be
terrified but I'm not at all"
>
>LR: He did?
>
>WSB: Yes-"I'm exhillerated!"
>
>LR: Well, I suppose if anyone had the right, uh,
frame about them to go
>out that way,
it was probably him. I was hoping to get one more visit in
>with him
before he uh, he went, uh he passed on, but that was not meant
>to be, I'm
sure a lot of people felt the same.
>
>WSB: mumbles
>
>LR: When was the last time you saw him?
>
>WSB: Los Angeles. At my show there.
>
>LR: I wanted to talk to you about Morocco a
little bit.
>
>WSB: Yeh.
>
>LR: I've recently been to the country, a few
times, and done some
>exploring
around, and I know you spent quite a bit of time in Tanger. I
>just wanted
to pick yr brain about that a little bit. You went to Tanger
>for the first
time in 1953, 1954?
>
>WSB: Nineteen... Fifty-four, I believe.
>
>LR: Yeah. What what how did you end up in
Morocco? What was it about
>the place
that drew you there? I mean, today there are a lot of
>different
romantic associations with the coast of North Africa...
>
>WSB: There were a lot more then than there are
now, I can tell you
>that.
>
>LR: Really?
>
>WSB: Well, you'll notice more subdivisions now...
as it's modernized and
>is no longer
cheap-
>
>LR: Right. But we have the stories of yr time
there, and Paul Bowles'
>time there,
and such things as Lawrence of Arabia, and it's built up in
>a very
romantic way-
>
>WSB: In other words-for one thing, it was very
cheap.
>
>LR: It was very cheap?
>
>WSB: Yeah, man, I lived like a king for $200 a
month.
>
>LR: Really?
>
>WSB: Yeh.
>
>LR: Did it have the same sort of appeal, then,
that Berlin had in the
>70's,-of
being a sort of international zone, where anything goes?
>
>WSB: Pretty much so. It was an anything goes
place, and that's another
>plus.
>
>LR: Yeah. And that was pretty available
knowledge, when you went there?
>
>WSB: Oh sure.
>
>LR: Had you known Paul Bowles, or known about
him, before you went
>there?
>
>WSB: I'd read his books.
>
>LR: You did?
>
>WSB: Yes. I didn't know him.
>
>LR: Did you meet him fairly quickly after you
were there?
>
>WSB: Mmm, I'd been there for some time, I'd met
him very slightly. Then
>later we
became quite good friends-but that was later, some years later.
>
>LR: Right. Did you pretty much exist within an expatriate
community
>there, or did
you have a lot of contact with the local people? Was is
>easy to have
contact?
>
>WSB: The local people-umm, I don't speak a fuckin'
word of Arabic, but
>I speak a
little Spanish-y'know, they all spoke Spanish in the Northern
>Zone.
>
>LR: Yeah.
>
>WSB: My relations were mostly with the Spanish.
Spanish boys. And, of
>course,
otherwise in the expatriate side.
>
>LR: Right, but you didn't frequent the Barbara
Hutton crowd?
>
>WSB: Nooo.
>
>LR: Did you do much travelling around Morocco
while you were there, or
>did you
pretty much just stick in Tanger?
>
>WSB: I'm ashamed to say, not much. I went to Fes,
I went to Marrakech,
>and passed
through Casablance. Some of the places there-I forget the
>names of the
coastal towns... and I've been to Jajouka!
>
>LR: Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that-I'm
friendly with Bachir
>Attar, and
the last time we were there I went to Jajouka as well...
>
>WSB: Oh did ya?
>
>LR: I saw your inscriptions in his big scrapbook,
and hear some
>stories-
>
>WSB: Yeah.
>
>LR: What was your impression of that place? How
did you end up there?
>Was it
through Brion Gysin and the 1001 Nights?
>
>WSB: More or less, yes.
>
>LR: What did you make of that place? What did you
make of the music?
>
>WSB: Great, great. Love it. Magic-It really has a
magical quality that
>you can't
find anymore, anywhere. It's dying our everywhere, that
>quality...
>
>LR: It seems to be still there when they play
(today), I don't know if
>you've heard
them recently...
>
>WSB: Not recently, but I've hear the recordings,
some of the
>recordings.
Ornette Colemanmade some, you know. I was there when he made
>those.
>
>LR: Excuse me?
>
>WSB: I was there.
>
>LR: You were there when he made those (Dancing in
Your Head)
>recordings?
>
>WSB: That's right.
>
>LR: Oh, gee, wasn't that in the 70's?
>
>WSB: Yeah, it was, '72, I think.
>
>LR: When was the last time you were back in
Morocco?
>
>WSB: When in the hell was it? I went there
with-the last time I went
>with Jeremy
Thomas and David Cronenberg, apropos of possibly getting
>some shots,
y'know...
>
>LR: Oh, for the movie (Naked Lunch)...
>
>WSB: Yeah, for the sets.
>
>LR: Yeah.
>
>WSB: Well, we just were there a couple of days.
>
>LR: Was it anything like you remembered? Had it
changed incredibly?
>
>WSB: Not incredibly but considerably. There's been
a lot of building
>up, a lot of
sort of sub-divisions, it's gotten more westernized-there
>used to be a
lot of good restaurants there, now there's only one, and
>that's in the
Hotel Minza.
>
>LR: Right.
>
>WSB: These people I was with were saying "Oh
show me to a little place
>in the native
quarter where the food is good..." and I said: There aren't
>no such
places! Right here in your best food in Morocco, or in Tanger
>anyway, right
in the Hotel Minza. Well, they went out and they ate in an
>awful, greasy
Spanish restaurant. After that they believed me!
>
>LR: (laughs)They had to find out the hard way...
>
>LR: What about the 1001 Nights? Were the Jajouka
musicians playing in
>there?
>
>WSB: Well, various musicians. They had dancing
boys in there, too.
>
>LR: Yeah?
>
>WSB: Yes-Oh, but I didn't know Brion too well-I
was only there a couple
>of times.
>
>LR: Oh really.
>
>WSB: I didn't know him then.
>
>LR: You became friendly with him in Paris, later?
>
>WSB: That's right.
>
>LR: The place where you spent a lot of your time
there (in Tanger), the
>Muneria?
>
>WSB: The Hotel Mouneria, yes.
>
>LR: Was it a hotel or a boarding house?
>
>WSB: It was a hotel.
>
>LR: That's where you wrote a lot of the routines
that became Naked
>Lunch?
>
>WSB: Quite a few of them, yes.
>
>LR: And is that where Kerouac, and Ginsberg,
those guys came to visit
>you? Where
you living there at that time?
>
>WSB: I was living there at that time, yes. The
didn't-there wasn't a
>place in the
Mouneria, but they found various cheap places around very
>near there.
>
>LR: I heard Kerouac had nightmares from typing up
your stuff at that
>time...
>
>WSB: (pauses) Well, he said...
>
>LR: Was he the first one to actually sit down and
type a buch of that
>stuff up?
>
>WSB: No, he was by no means the first. Alan Ansen
did a lot of typing,
>and of course
Allen Ginsberg. I don't know who was first but it wasn't
>Jack.
>
>LR: Those guys came and went pretty quickly,
compared to your time in
>Morocco-I
guess they weren't as enamoured of the place...
>
>WSB: Well they were settled somewhere else. Now
for example, Jack
>didn't like
any place outside of America-he hated Tanger.
>
>LR: I wonder why?
>
>WSB: He hated Paris because they couldn't
understand is French.
>
>LR: His French ws a dialect...
>
>WSB: Those French Canadians got themselves into a
language ghetto.
>Evnet he
French people don't speak their language. Anyway, he'd been to
>Mexico quite
a lot, more than many other places.
>
>LR: He liked it there...
>
>WSB: Fairly well.
>
>LR: But he didn't like it very much in Tanger?
>
>WSB: No no, not at all.
>
>LR: I'd like to hear your impressions of the kif
smoking there, and the
>majoun-
>
>WSB: Sure. Well, the kif smoking was, y'know,
anywhere and everywhere.
>There were no
laws...
>
>LR: They sort of smoke it the way people have a
drink here, don't they?
>
>WSB: Well, not exactly the same way. In the first
place-it's pretty
>much confined
to men, thought i suppose the women get to smoke on their
>own. but
anyway, of course majoun is just a cany mad from kif-the kif,
>you see, is
mixed with tobacco-
>
>LR: Right.
>
>WSB: I can't smoke it.
>
>LR: Nope.
>
>WSB: So I'd always get those boys with the
tobacco, I'd tell 'em: "I
>don't want
the tobacco in it". So I rolled my own, and made my own
>majoun. It's
just a candy, it's pretty much like a Christmas Pudding-any
>sort of candy
is good, works, fudge or whatever.
>
>LR: And how did you find it? Was it a high that
was pretty pleasing?
>
>WSB: Very very very much. It was stronger than
pot.
>
>LR: Were you smoking a lot of that, or taking a
lot of that, when you
>were writing
some of the routines?
>
>WSB: Yeah, sure. It helped me alot.
>
>LR: Was Tanger a violent place then?
>
>WSB: It was never a violent place that I know of.
>
>LR: No?
>
>WSB: Never-good god-I walked around in Tanger at
all hours of the day
>and night,
never any trouble.
>
>LR: Really?
>
>WSB: Yeah, there's always stuff about, the idea
that you go into the
>native
quartier you immediately get stabbed-laughs-it's nonsense!
>
>LR: Well, people do bring back those stories now
and again...
>
>WSB: Well, occasionally it happens, but it is much
less dangerous that
>certain areas
of New York-my God!
>
>LR: That's exactly how I likened it, when I was
there-if you can walk
>down the
streets of New York you're in pretty good stead.
>
>WSB: Yeah, that's right, you're much better in
Tanger than in New York.
>
>LR: There was a description, In Barry Miles book,
wehre he said that
>when you got
there you felt very lonely and cut off, being sort of
>isolated in
this corner of North Africa-
>
>WSB: It wasn't the corner of North Africa, it was
the fact that I
>hadn't made
many friends there.
>
>LR: Was that a strange time for you? Living there
without really
>knowing
anyone?
>
>WSB: Not particularly, I've visited many times,
many places.
>
>LR: Do you think that the gereral tenor of life
in Morocco influenced
>the way ou
were writing at that point? The daily life coming out in some
>of the
routines?
>
>WSB: Probably. The more I was in that surrounding
the more I liked it.
>More and
more.
>
>LR: More and more as you stayed?
>
>WSB: Yeah-it was cheap-and then, I met this guy Dave
Ulmer (?), who
>was, Barnaby
Bliss, he was at work for the man who did a column for
>their Tanger
paper-English paper-run by an old expatriate named Byrd,
>William Byrd,
an old Paris expat.
>
>LR: Were there many tourists in Morocco then?
>
>WSB: Not many at all.
>
>LR: That must have been nice.
>
>WSB: It was nice. In the summer of course you had
sometimes quite a few
>Scandinavians,
Germans... -laughs-Brian Howard said about the Swedes, I
>thik it was:
"You're all ugly, you're all queer, and none of you have
>any
money!"
>
>LR: Well, you know, that was another quote in
Miles book, from you,
>saying that
you'd "never seen so many people in one place without any
>money or the
prospect of any money..." I guess
you could live pretty
>cheaply
there?
>
>WSB: You could live pretty cheaply there, yes.
>
>LR: At that time did Americans have to register
with the police to live
>there?
>
>WSB: f course not, nothing, they had to do
nothing. Well, they put in
>various
regulations in town-you had to get a card. By the time we got
>our goddamn
cards and stood in line and had to take all that crap-I had
>to get one of
those in France, too-well, anyway, by that time they had
>another idea
(laughs), so your card that you had aquired was worthless...
>
>LR: Were you involved much in the music there?
Did you hear a lot of
>music while
you were in Tanger-did it make any strong impression on you?
>
>WSB: Well, I like the Moroccan music very much-
>
>LR: It seems to be a very big part of the
lifestyle-
>
>WSB: Yes, it is, indeed.
>
>LR: A lot of music, a lot of kef smoking, a lot
of contemplation, in a
>way-
>
>WSB: Yes, well the music in omnipresent. I'd be
sitting at my desk and
>hear it
outside. It was all around you.
>
>LR: William, that about covers the subjects I'd
wanted to get at you
>with, on
there...
>
>WSB: Sure...
>
>LR: I guess your friendship with Bowles started a
bit later-
>
>WSB: Yes, it did.
>
>LR: Do you enjoy his writing?
>
>WSB: Very much, very much.
>
>LR: He's got a very interesting style...
>
>WSB: Very particular style-particularly in the end
of Let It Come Down,
>that's
terrific, terrific, and then-The Sheltering Sky is almost a
>perfect
novel-
>
>LR: Yeah.
>
>WSB: The end of that, oh man, that quote:
"well you turned, stopped-it
>was the end
of the line..."-great!
>
>LR: Did you know Jane (Bowles)?
>
>WSB: Oh yes, quite well.
>
>LR: What'd you think of her?
>
>WSB: Oh she was incredible...
>
>LR: I've heard incredible things about her-she
lived quite an
>interesting
life herself, although I guess in general, in Tanger and
>Morocco,
women were very much invisible, in a certain way. Native women.
>
>WSB: It's a very complicated situation, very complex,
and I don't
>pretend to
know much about it. Jane Bowles was sort of known for her
>strange
behavior. In New York they invited her to some party where all
>these
powerful ladies were, and they asked her, "Mrs. Bowles, what do
>you think of
all this?", and she said "Oh" and fell to the floor in
>quite a
genuine faint.
>
>LR: That was her answer?
>
>WSB: That was her answer. She had no
(unintelligible).
>
>LR: Are you still in touch with Bachir?
>
>WSB: No, not really.
>
>LR: You were in touch with his father, I
suppose...
>
>WSB: Yes, I knew the old man, sure, I remember
him.
>
>LR: He was the leader of the group back then?
>
>WSB: Yeah.
>
>LR: How many musicians would you say were in the
group back then?
>
>WSB: Oh, I don't know, it would vary, I'd say
about 12, 15.
>
>LR: That's about how many there still are now.
>
>LR: Okay William, I think that that's gonna be
good.
>
>WSB: Well fine.
>
>LR: I appreciate your talking to me, it's a great
pleasure to talk to
>you.
>
>WSB: Well, it's my pleasure too.
>
>LR: Okay, I hope to get another chance to come
out and say hellow to
>you out there
in Lawrence-
>
>WSB: Fine.
>
>LR: Y'know, I have one last question for you-
>
>WSB: Good.
>
>LR: Is that, uh, typewriter still growing out in
your garden?
>
>WSB: (puzzled) What typewriter?
>
>LR: Last time we were there you had a typewriter
growing in your garden
>amongst all
the plants and things...
>
>WSB: Oh, just one I threw away I guess...
>
>LR: Yeah, it was a very beautiful image there,
with the weeds coming up
>through the
keys...
>
>WSB: (laughs) I guess so-I don't remember the
typewriter-I've gone
>through so
many typewriters-wear 'em out and throw 'em away.
>
>LR: Do you generally write with a computer these
days?
>
>WSB: I have no idea how to do it. No, I don't.
>
>LR: Typewriter or longhand?
>
>WSB: Typewriter or longhand, yes. These modern
inventions! James has
>one, but I
just don't.
>
>LR: Okay, well listen William, I thank you very
much. Please tell both
>Jim and James
thanks for their help as well.
>
>WSB: I certainly will.
>
>LR: Okay, you take care.
>
>WSB: You too.
>
>LR: Bye bye.
>
>WSB: Bye bye.
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
Burroughs' last thoughts on death, drugs, Gingrich
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 11
Aug 1997 11:25:45 -0800
>From: bofus?
<bofus@fcom.com>
>To:
bofus@fcom.com
>Subject:
Burroughs' last thoughts on death, drugs, Gingrich
>
>William
Burroughs' journals reveal last thoughts on death, drugs,
>Gingrich
>
>
>The
Associated Press
>
>NEW YORK
(August 11, 1997 11:58 a.m. EDT) -- Until the end, William S.
>Burroughs
shuddered at the thought of a world without drugs and railed
>against the
politicians trying to ban them.
>
>The latest
issue of "The New Yorker," which hits newsstands Monday,
>contains
excerpts from journals kept by the Beat Generation author and
>former heroin
addict in which he criticizes Newt Gingrich and other
>politicians
he blamed for trying to make American life "banal."
>
>"That
vile salamander Gingrich, squeaker of the House, is slobbering
>about a
drug-free America by the year 2001," Burroughs wrote about two
>months before
his Aug. 2 death at age 83.
>
>"What a
dreary prospect! ... No dope fiends, just good, clean-living
>decent
Americans from sea to shining sea," he wrote on May 31. "How I
>hate those
who are dedicated to producing conformity."
>
>The author of
"Naked Lunch" also praised Beat poet Allen Ginsberg for
>struggling
against censorship to challenge the mores of American
>society.
>
>"Allen
made holes in the Big Lie not only with his poetry but with his
>presence, his
self-evident spiritual truth," he wrote on May 25.
>
>Ginsberg's
death April 5 caused him to think about the end of his own
>life.
>
>"I
thought I would be terrified, but I am exhilarated," Burroughs
>recalled his friend
saying.
>
>The day
before Burroughs died, he wrote his last entry, which was
>printed on
cards and distributed among the 250 mourners at his funeral
>in Lawrence,
Kan.
>
>"Love?
What is it? Most natural painkiller. What there is. LOVE."
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
How the beats beat the First Amendment
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 11
Aug 1997 11:27:32 -0800
>From: bofus?
<bofus@fcom.com>
>To:
bofus@fcom.com
>Subject: How
the beats beat the First Amendment
>
>How the beats
beat the First Amendment
>
>
>N.Y. Times
News Service
>
>(August 11,
1997 11:58 a.m. EDT) - The last year has been pretty much
>the end of
the road for the Beat Generation, with the deaths of Herbert
>Huncke, the
hustler who gave Jack Kerouac the word "beat," Allen
>Ginsberg, who
gave poetry "Howl," and, on Aug. 2, William S. Burroughs,
>who gave the
world, ready or not, "Naked Lunch."
>
>The beats'
defiance of authority and their experimentation with drugs
>and sex
helped set a generation on course for the counterculture of the
>1960s. Not
that censors didn't see what was coming. In 1957 Ginsberg
>overcame an
obscenity prosecution for "Howl," which celebrated
>homosexuality
and eroticism. In 1965 "Naked Lunch," in which Burroughs
>opened the
doors to hallucinatory visions of American society, was ruled
>obscene in
Massachusetts.
>
>For
Burroughs' American publisher, Grove Press, this was good news. When
>it first came
out in France in 1959, "Naked Lunch" wasn't even reviewed.
>After 1965,
it was a cause celebre.
>
>Better yet,
before the Massachusetts Supreme Court heard Grove's appeal
>in 1966, the
U.S. Supreme Court set a new precedent in a case involving
>"John
Cleland's Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure" -- Fanny Hill. Its
>ruling meant
that to be found pornographic, "Naked Lunch" would have to
>be
"utterly without redeeming social value."
>
>The result
was a literary trial that elevated the least upbeat of the
>beats
(Burroughs had a dim view of humanity) to cult status. Grove
>rushed out a
new edition that included testimony. In it, the
>uncertainties
on both sides of the wavering cultural divide showed. To
>get along,
even the beats had to play along. Excerpts from that edition
>follow. --
GEORGE JUDSON
>
>Burroughs, a
former drug addict with a pharmacologist's knowledge of
>narcotics,
had tried to inoculate "Naked Lunch" against challenges with
>an introduction
describing a high purpose:
>
>I awoke from
The Sickness at the age of forty-five, calm and sane, and
>in reasonably
good health except for a weakened liver and the look of
>borrowed
flesh common to all who survive The Sickness. . . . I have no
>precise
memory of writing the notes which have now been published under
>the title
"Naked Lunch." The title was suggested by Jack Kerouac. I did
>not
understand what the title meant until my recent recovery. The title
>means exactly
what the words say: NAKED Lunch -- a frozen moment when
>everyone sees
what is on the end of every fork.
>
>The Sickness
is drug addiction and I was an addict for fifteen years. .
>. .
>
>So
"Naked Lunch" was a brief for eliminating heroin use by treating
>junkies rather
than punishing them. Burroughs made his case:
>
>Dope fiends
are sick people who cannot act other than they do. . . .
>Assuming a
self-righteous position is nothing to the purpose unless your
>purpose is to
keep the junk virus in operation. And junk is a big
>industry."
. . .
>
>The junk
virus is public health problem number one of the world today
>(emphasis
his). Since "Naked Lunch" treats this health problem, it is
>necessarily
brutal, obscene and disgusting.
>
>What about
the lurid sex scenes that include, among many activities,
>hangings? He
explained:
>
>Certain
passages in the book that have been called pornographic were
>written as a
tract against Capital Punishment in the manner of Jonathan
>Swift's
"Modest Proposal." These sections are intended to reveal capital
>punishment as
the obscene, barbaric and disgusting anachronism it is.
>
>The dodge
didn't work; a judge ruled "Naked Lunch" was hard-core
>pornography.
As the appeal moved along, other novels with legal troubles
>included
"Candy" by Terry Southern and "Last Exit to Brooklyn" by
Hubert
>Selby Jr.
Norman Mailer testified for Burroughs:
>
>There is a
kind of speech that is referred to as gutter talk that often
>has a very
fine, incisive, dramatic line to it; and Burroughs captures
>that speech
like no American writer I know. He also . . . has an
>exquisite
poetic sense. His poetic images are intense. They are often
>disgusting;
but at the same time there is a sense of collision in them,
>of montage
that is quite unusual.
>
>Mailer also
found deep meaning:
>
>William
Burroughs is in my opinion -- whatever his conscious intention
>may be -- a
religious writer. There is a sense in "Naked Lunch" of the
>destruction
of soul, which is more intense than any I have encountered
>in any other
modern novel. It is a vision of how mankind would act if
>man was
totally divorced from eternity. . . .
>
>Just as
Hieronymus Bosch set down the most diabolical and blood-curdling
>details . . .
so, too, does Burroughs leave you with an intimate,
>detailed
vision of what Hell might be like, a Hell which may be waiting
>as the
culmination, the final product, of the scientific revolution.
>
>Allen
Ginsberg testified, too:
>
>The concept
of addiction is carried out to include, in Burroughs'
>phrase,
"control addicts," or people who are habituated or pushing other
>people
around. What it boils down to: controlling them sexually,
>politically,
socially. . . . there are almost scientific expositions
>given by the
author of techniques of mass brainwash and mass control,
>and theories
of modern dictatorships, theories of modern police states.
>. . .
>
>I think he is
laconically, satirically analyzing them and presenting
>evidences of
these activities in our modern culture, now and then in a
>science-fiction
style, projecting them into the future, nightmare
>situations if
control addicts took over.
>
>Ginsberg, a
homosexual and former lover of Burroughs, was asked to sort
>out the
political parties portrayed in "Naked Lunch." Who, satirically,
>was whom?
"The Divisionists (one party in the book) are the
>homosexuals?"
the court asked. There seemed likely to be a correct
>answer:
>
>Yes. The
Divisionist is a parody of a homosexual situation also; but
>Burroughs is
(Ginsberg's emphasis) attacking the homosexuals in this
>book also.
>
>The court
then asked, "Do the conservatives fall into any particular sex
>class in this
book?" Ginsberg replied:
>
>Well, I think
the conservatives, if we consider the Factualist (another
>party) to be
conservative, I think they have a feeling of laissez-faire,
>whatever is
natural, whatever does no harm will be acceptable. . . .
>
>A justice put
in:
>
>"Lest
anyone take this seriously, of course, obviously it is a fantasy."
>
>But the
justice soon returned to homosexuality:
>
>"Let me
ask again. Do you think he is seriously suggesting that some
>time in the
future that a political party will be in some way concerned
>with sex?
(Grove's lawyer tried to speak.) Excuse me. When I say,
>"Concerned
with sex," I don't mean in an attempt to reform perversion. .
>. . what he
is trying to portray here, is that some time in the future
>there will be
a political party, for instance, made up of homosexuals?
>
>Ginsberg
replied:
>
>Well, I
think, saying that, this has already happened in a sense, -- or
>of sex
perverts -- and we can point to Hitler, Germany under Hitler.
>
>In a 4-2
decision, the court found that "Naked Lunch" "may appeal to the
>prurient
interest of deviants and those curious about deviants. To us,
>it is grossly
offensive and is what the author himself says, 'brutal,
>obscene and
disgusting.' "
>
>But applying
the new federal test, the court stated, "we cannot ignore
>the serious
acceptance of it by so many persons in the literary
>community.
Hence, we cannot say that 'Naked Lunch' has no 'redeeming
>social
importance.' "
>
>"Naked
Lunch" passed. And the obscenity test has since been revised; it
>now requires
a "reasonable person" to find that a work is prurient,
>violates
contemporary community standards and, taken as a whole, "lacks
>serious
literary, artistic, political or scientific value."
>
>Ginsberg
concluded his testimony with a poem, "On Burroughs' Work." It
>ends:
>
>A naked lunch
is natural to us, we eat reality sandwiches. But
>allegories
are so much lettuce. Don't hide the madness.
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
(FWD) q: ranaldo & a: burroughs, 9 april 97
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970812013625_1848781656@emout01.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 01.36 12/08/97
-0400,
Pamela Beach
Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM> wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-08-12 01:01:05 EDT, you write:
>
><< WSB:
Well, you'll notice more subdivisions now as it's modernized
> > and is
no longer cheap
>
> Sharp as a
razor. >>
>
>In every
direction we look....
>
>C.Plymell
>
ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
who's who?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970812085153.12553C-100000@baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU>
References:
Shannon,
the writer
Fernanda Pivano in the '60s was in correspondence with Henri Cru (in OTR he is
Remi Boncoeur),
exempli gratia:
#1
''Dear Miss
Pivano, please permit me to introduce myself...
My name is Henry
Cru and my best friend "Jack Kerouac" sent ne the enclosed postal
card on my trip around the world. I am an electrician on the President Jackson
and we are scheduled to arrive in Genoa June sixt or possibly a day or two
later. In Jack's best selling novel On The Road he named himself "Sal
Paradise" and he called me "Remi Bon Coeur". According to his
card he wishes for me to tell you that I am Remi and then he sent me. I have no
idea why he wants me to tell you this but knowing Jack as I do he must have
some kind of mystical reason. I would be delighted to receive a card from you
enlightening me to Kerouac's motives. My very best wishes.''.
#2
"Dear Nanda
& Ettore, I have been on the road ona on the ocean for many years but when
''Mon Frere'' Jack Kerouac forget about ''the Beatnik Generation'' and starts
to entertain notions of scraping all his nonsensical ideas about non conformism
and starts to formulatae a gospel that will bring peace to this miserable
world, peoples in every land will find love and genuine kindness like I found
in this home where I was treated like a King... Merci du fond de mon coeur.
Henri Cru "Remi Bon Coeur" ''.
Henri Cru, (Remi
Boncoeur) is very important & Jack Kerouac devoted alot of pages about
him in "On the Road" but Henri
Cru is not mentioned in the Legend of Beat, why?
Boncoeur said
"You can't teach the old maestro a new tone", i consider the best
motto in all OTR,
saluti
Rinaldo.
*
"Aaaaah
Paradise, he comes in through the window, he follows instructions to a
T."---Remi Boncoeur in JK's OTR *
At 08.55 12/08/97
-0700,
"Shannon L.
Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU> wrote:
>I'm still
working on "On the Road," and have a character question.
>Don't jump
all over me for this...if it screams ignorance...chalk it up
>to
unfamiliarity. Who is Remi...and subsequently Lee Ann?
>
>-shannon
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: about
razor
Cc:
Bcc: "Penn,
Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970812172530Z-539@sd-mail.sd.oees.com>
References:
>Rinaldo, you
are such a tease. Somebody please
translate?
>
>Douglas
>> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>>
please, excuse
me, the translation is
"IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
burroughs' letter to kerouac on buddhism
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Return-Path:
<bofus@fcom.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug
1997 06:33:45 -0800
From: bofus?
<bofus@fcom.com>
To: bofus@fcom.com
Subject:
burroughs' letter to kerouac on buddhism
Derek B Monypeny
<dbm@U.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> scene: burroughs is in morocco. the
> accidental shooting death of jane burroughs
> has already occurred. burroughs is in the
> process of writing what would become
"naked
> lunch" and pining for allen ginsberg. he
is
> replying to a letter from kerouac which
> stated, among other things, that kerouac
> had devoted himself to the study of
> buddhism and had renounced sex for good.
>
> ...I can't help but feeling that you are
> going too far with your absolute chastity.
> Besides, masturbation is NOT chastity, it
> is just a way of sidestepping the issue
> without even approaching the solution.
> Remember, Jack, I studied and practiced
> Buddhism (in my usual sloppy way to be
> sure). The conclusion I arrived at, and I
> make no claims to speak from a state of
> enlightenment, but merely to have attempted
> the journey, as always with inadequate
> equipment and knowledge (like one of my
> South American expeditions), falling into
> every possible accident and error, losing
> my gear and my way, chilled to the
> blood-making marrow with final despair of
> aloneness: What am I doing here a broken
> eccentric? A Bowery Evangelist, reading
> books on Theosophy in the public library
> (an old tin trunk full of notes in my cold
> water East Side flat), imagining myself a
> Secret World Controller in Telepathic
> Contact with Tibetan Adepts... Could I ever
> SEE the merciless, cold FACTS on some Winter
> night, sitting in the operation room white
> glare of a cefeteria - NO SMOKING PLEASE -
> see the facts AND MYSELF, an old man with
> the wasted years behind, and what ahead
> having seen the Facts? A trunk full of
> notes to dump in a Henry St. lot?... So my
> conclusion was that Buddhism is only for
> the West to STUDY as HISTORY, that is it is
> a subject for UNDERSTANDING, and Yoga can
> profitably be practiced to that end. But it
> is not, for the West, An ANSWER, not a
> SOLUTION. We must learn by acting,
> experiencing, and living; that is, above
> all, by LOVE and by SUFFERING. A man who
> uses Buddhism or any other instrument to
> remove love from his being in order to
> avoid, has committed, in my mind, a
> sacrilege comparable to castration. You
> were given the power to love in order to
> use it, no matter what pain it may cause
> you. Buddhism frequently amounts to a form
> of psychic junk... Because if there is one
> thing I feel sure of its this: That human
> life has DIRECTION. Even if we accept some
> Spenglerian Cycle routine, the cycle never
> comes back to exactly the same place, nor
> does it ever exactly repeat itself... When
> the potentials of any species are
> exhausted, the species becomes static (like
> all animals, reptiles and other so-called
> lower forms of life). What distinguished
> Man from all other species is that he
> CANNOT BECOME STATIC. "Er muss streben
oder
> untergehen" (quotation is from myself in
> character of German Philosopher)-"He
must
> continue to develop or perish."... What
I
> mean is the California Buddhists are trying
> to sit on the sidelines and there ARE no
> sidelines. Whether you like it or not, you
> are committed to the human endeavor. I can
> not ally myself with such a purely negative
> goal as avoidance of suffering. Suffering is
> a chance you have to take by the fact of
> being alive. I repeat, BUDDHISM IS NOT FOR
> THE WEST. We must evolve our own
> solutions... I am having serious
> difficulties with my novel. I tell you the
> novel form is completely inadequate to
> express what I have to say. I don't know if
> I can find a form. I am very gloomy as to
> prospects of publication. And I'm not like
> you, Jack. I need an audience. Of course, a
> small audience. But still I need publication
> for development. A writer can be ruined by
> too much or too little success...
>
>
>
> From "Letters of William S. Burroughs
> 1945-1959." Edited with an introduction by
> Oliver Harris. Viking, 1993.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: about
razor..Occam's
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997081411062000@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
hello all
friends,
William of Occam,
of course...
&
THE NAME OF THE ROSE
"stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina luda
tenemu" "the ancient rose is necessarily connected to her name,
we have got things without their
name"
&
the medieval prior set the books on
fire,
saluti,
Rinaldo.
*
BTW, i found a
Ferlighetti's poem:
Walking through
the University of Bologna
the oldest university in the world...
The usual
protests by the usual students
stoning the administration
for Giordano Bruno
or Garibaldi
or Pasolini
or Lotta Continua
The usual statues
under the arcades
or under the trees
Great yellow leaves
falling on them
And the gardens
full of
stone philosophers
oblivious
above it all
having survived their own
dying fall
As I release a
singing bird
from under my hat
And join the
rearest demonstration
against virtual
reality
led by Umberto
Eco I suppose
or a wit that
looks like him
waving a rose
--Lawrence
Ferlighetti, "Italian Scenes" *
--------
At 11.06 14/08/97
-0400,
Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET> wrote:
>This has often
been referred to as "Occam's razor", the desire to shave away
>any excess
conditions in an hypothesis or theory. Occam (Henry of ...?) as I
>recall was a
contemporary of the monk-philosopher Francis Bacon, the central
>figure in
"The Name of the Rose".
>
> Antoine
>
> ***************
>
>>>Rinaldo,
you are such a tease. Somebody please
translate?
>>>
>>>Douglas
>>
>>>> ENTIA NON SUNT MULTIPLICANDA
>>>> PRAETER NECESSITATEM...
>>>>
>>
>>please,
excuse me, the translation is
>>
>> "IT IS VAIN TO DO WITH MORE
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH FEWER"
>>
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Lewis
Warsh as a translator of avant-garde chinese poetry
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
THIS IS NOT THE
LAST
This is not the
last
that's punished
by language.
A new wooden
house
is knocked down
by a tree.
The prisoner
makes traps
around himself.
If he's let out
alive
he'll take the
crimes with him.
He has no other
shortcut.
A knife between
life and death.
Light is cut open
and bent by the
lonely sky.
The world is as
painful as fate.
Words are
shackles.
Once he's learned
how to confess,
no one can ever
defend him.
Translated by
Wang Ping and Lewis WarshTo: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Darkness of Buddishm.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
*-
"A man who
uses Buddhism or any other instrument to remove love from his being in order to
avoid, has committed, in my mind, a sacrilege comparable to castration."--
William S. Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.
From
"Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959."
*-
"When the Vietnamese communists
took Saigon in 1975, they put their
"class
enemies" into re-education camps. In
neighboring Cambodia, Pol Pot built exter-
mination camps. Techears, doctors, people
who could speak a foreing language, even
people who wore glasses, were purged as
he sought to reduce all of Cambodia to the
level of the peasant class. The Vietnamese
could be cruel captors, but their Confucian
heritage left them open to educational re-
form. In Cambodia, by contrast, Buddhism
encouraged a belief in the ineluctability
of karma and the idea that evil suffered
is evil deserved. ''The idea of karma
goes very deep in this society, and I
think that was part of the mentality of
the Khmer Rouge when they were massacring
people,'' said Francois Ponvhaud, a priest
who first went in Cambodia in 1965. '' They
believed their victims had made errors,
political errors, and that killing them
would allow them to be reborn as better
people in their next lives''. Pol Pot has
admitted to some mistakes in the period
from 1975 to 1979, but in his eyes they
were mistakes of policy. About the million
dead, he has never expressed any
remorse."
From "Terry McCarthy-- TIME,AUGUST
11,1997."
*-
"I repeat,
BUDDHISM IS NOT FOR THE WEST.
We must evolve
our own solutions..."
-- William S.
Burroughs' letter to Jack Kerouac.
From
"Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959." *-
DIED. WILLIAM BURROUGHS, 83,
countercultural hero, whose
delicioussly delirious novel,
''Naked Lunch'', was cleared
of obscenity charges by the
U.S. Supreme Court; in Lawrence,
Kansas. A literary junkie,
Burroughs was hooked on heroin
and words, which he furiously
pieced together to exorcise the
memory of having drunkenly shot
his wife Joan instead of the
glass perched on her head. Of
that stunt gone fatally wrong,
Burroughs once said: '' I have
had no choice but to write my
way out.''
From "TIME,AUGUST 18,1997.
*-
saluti fraterni,
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
Writers.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
http://sfpl.lib.ca.us/nbe/beatwriters.html
List of Beat
Writers in The Collection
The two sources used to determine if a
writer/poet is to be included in the
Beat Writers Collection are: 1) A two volume set entitled "The Beats: Literary Bohemians in Postwar America"
(edited by Ann Charters. Gale. 1983).
More than a biography of 66 Beats or Beat Era
writers, each entry includes an in-depth
critique of the works of an author and includes at least one photograph and a bibliography. The six page forward written by Charters serves as a quick socio-historical analysis
of BEAT.
Poets/writers listed in this two volume set
are:
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
Paul Blackburn
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
William S.
Burroughs
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
Paul Carroll
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady
Andy Clausen
Gregory Corso
Robert Creely
Diane DiPrima
Kirby Doyle
Robert Duncan
Bob Dylan
William Everson
(Brother Antonus)
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Allen Ginsberg
Brion Gysin
John Cellon
Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Ted Joans
Lenore Kandel
Bob Kaufman
Jan Kerouac
Jack kerouac
Ken Kesey
Seymour Krim
Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
Timothy Leary
Lawrence Lipton
Norman Mailer
Edward Marshall
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
John Montgomery
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
Charles Olson
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Kenneth Rexroth
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Jack Spicer
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
Anne Waldman
Alan Watts
Lew Welch
Philip Whalen
John Weiners
William Carlos
Williams
2) The second book is entitled
"Women of the Beat Generation"
(edited by Brenda Knight.) To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Lawrence
Ferlinghetti, the Prevert of America...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997081523204008@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Antoine et al.
friends,
the
Ferlinghetti's poem "Walking through the University of Bologna" is
printed in the book
"Ferlinghetti,
SCENE ITALIANE", ed. Minum fax, (c) 1995, Roma in the cover a
Ferlinghetti's painting titled "Morning Vision",
in previous post
i noticed thet Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM> have alot of books in
stock i dunno if he has a copy of "Italian Scenes" by LF,
saluti a tutti, e
buona domenica,
Rinaldo.
At 23.20 15/08/97
-0400, Antoine wrote:
>Thanks for
adding the William for me Rinaldo and for choosing such a perfect
>Ferlinghetti
poem as a response! Which collection is it from?
>
> Antoine
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: la
Repubblica quoted Wall Street Journal WSB's obituary
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<33EFFFC8.5258@buchenroth.com>
References:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970811093157.37708F-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
At 23.16 11/08/97
-0700,
"Michael L.
Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM> wrote:
>Last Saturday
morning (Friday night) I read an article / bio / slam /
>insulting and
frightening propaganda bullshit narrowly filtered opinion
>in the
"Wall Street Journal" about Burroughs and the Beats, etc.
>***
[snipped for
brevity]
>
Friends,
the newspaper
"la Repubblica", printed in Rome (the 2th most big newspaper in
Italy) today sunday 17th august 1997, has quoted the Wall Street Journal
article concerned the William S. Burroughs' obituary.
*********************************************
Dopo i misurati elogi della stampa
"liberal",
il "Wall Street Journal" parte
all'attacco.
BURROUGHS, L'AMERICA SI DIVIDE
di Eugenio Occorsio
Era inevitabile che l'America giungesse ad un
''redde rationem'' con William Burroughs, il
controverso profeta della beat generation
morto
di infarto il 2 agosto nel Kansas appena
quattro
mesi dopo l'altro ''poeta maledetto'' Allen
Ginsberg. E' un processo tortuoso e sofferto,
questa rivisitazione della figura dell'autore
di ''Naked Lunch'', che si sta consumando in
questi giorni insieme alle celebrazioni di
Elvis Presley: il New York Times ha
pubblicato
un obituary volutamente asettico e
didascalico
pur definendolo ''scrittore rinnegato'', il
Washington Post lo ha definito senza mezzi
termini
''una genuina icona culturale'', il Los
Angeles Times-
citando peraltro i tanti ammiratori da Norman
Mailer a Lou Reed- ha riferito con piu'
convinzione
nei giorni successivi le serrate critiche che
lo
dipingevano come un ''ciarlatano
incomprensibile''.
Ma e' soprattutto il Wall Street Journal,
ultimo ma
non minore, a scagliarsi non solo contro
questo
''debosciato pornografo'' ma anche contro il
resto
della stampa americana, ''che lo ha trattato
come fosse
un'importante figura letteraria''.
''Burroughs, come prima di lui Kerouac-
scrive
ora il quotidiano- commetteva, fra le tante,
una
mistificazione: diceva di ispirarsi allo
scrittore
Jonathan Swift, per i suoi toni satirici e
disincantati.
Nulla di piu' sbagliato: Swift prende le
distanze
dalle aberrazioni e dalla degradazione che
dipingeva,
Burroughs invece vi e' immerso dentro. E' un
opportunista
che si autodefinisce ironico solo perche'
cosi' cerca
di proteggersi contro le azioni legali a suo
carico
per oscenita' ''. A differenza di Swift,
''non ha
nessun ideale da contrapporre alle brutture
che descrive''.
Certo aggiunge il Journal, Burroughs, come
gli altri
Beats, ha lasciato il segno nella cultura
americana e
ha contribuito ad infrangere il muro di
"reticente
sensibilita'" che circondava la
pornografia. E la sua
"religione della droga" ha fatto
si' che di questa si
riuscisse a parlare con minore reticenze. Ma
il tutto
''non ha rappresentato un successo, bensi'
una penosa
degenerazione''.
copyright "la Repubblica" domenica
17 agosto 1997, p.34
*******************************************************
i must note that
in the italian media (Tv & Press) WSB isn't caned, here there's an
acceptance of the beat experience,
Rinaldo.
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Awww,
mama... can this really... be the end...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
memphis blues again by Bob Dylan
oh the ragman draws circles
up and down the block
I'd ask him what the matter was
but I know that he don't talk
and the ladies treat me kindly
and they furnish me with tea
but deep inside my heart
I know I can't escape
oh mama can this really be the end
to be stuck inside of mobile
with the memphis blues again
well shakespeare he's in the alley
with his pointed shoes and his bells
speaking to some french girl
who says she knows me well
and I would send a message
to find out if she's talked
but the post office has been stolen
and the mailbox is locked
mona tried to tell me
to stay away from the train line
she said that all the rairoad men
just drink up your blood like wine
and I said oh I didn't know that
but then again there's only one I've met
and he just smoked my eyelids
and punched my cigarette
grandpa died last week
and now he's buried in the rocks
but everybody still talks about
how badly they were shocked
but me I experienced it to happen
I knew he'd lost control
when he built a fire on main street
and shot it full of holes
now the senator came down here
showing everyone his gun
handling out free tickets
to the wedding of his son
but me I nearly got busted
and wouldn't it be my luck
to get caught without a ticket
and be discovered beneath a truck
now the tea pitcher looked so baffled
when I asked him why he dressed
with twenty pounds of headlines
stapled to his chest
but he cursed me when I proved to him
then I whispered and said
not even you can hide
you see you're just like me
I hope you're satisfied
now the rainman gave me two cures
and said jump right in
the one was texas medicine
the other was just railroad gin
and like a fool I mixed them
and it strangled up my mind
and now people just get uglier
and I have no sense of time
when ruthie says come see her
in her honky tonk lagoon
where I can watch her waltz for free
neath her panamanian moon
and I say oh come on now
you know you know about my debutante
and she says your debutante just knows
what you need
but I know what you want
now the bricks lay on the grand street
where the neon madman climb
they all fall there so perfectly
they all seem so well timed
and here I sit so patiently
waiting to find out what price
you have to pay to get out of
going through all these things twice
oh mama can this really be the end
to be stuck inside of mobile
with the memphis blues again
[Bob Dylan,
Blonde on Blonde, 1966]
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
Darkness of Buddishm.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199708182257.PAA12729@netcom18.netcom.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970816230359.006adf80@pop.gpnet.it> from "Rinaldo Rasa" at Aug 16, 97 11:03:59
pm>
hello all beat
friends,
--**--
i was *alot*
staggered by the TIME article (quoted in the previous post), the Pol Pot
*violence with charm*, the only XXme siecle utopia realized (1975-1979) &
one million dead, (Pol Pot was in childhood educated to become a buddhist monk,
& was a gentle schoolboy),
--**--
the beat's
acceptance of buddishm & the Jack Keroauc's tragic death.
JK shifts from
the catholic religion to buddishm as better resource for a safe life. But at
the end JK undermined himself, i think, & i maybe wrong, that Eastern Lands
aren't the response anyway...
--**--
Levi Asher wrote:
[excuse me for
snippin' for brevity]
>I've written
somewhere that Burroughs had "porcupine
>skin" --
that was his defense mechanism.
Neitzsche
>never got a
good defense mechanism going, maybe
>because he
was schizophrenic, or maybe not, but
>he lived the
2nd half of his life in horrible
>misery.
The "porcupine skin" was an
apologue written by
Arthur Schopenhauer (Nietzsche's master of
philosophy),
the first western philosopher who studied
& embraced
the eastern thought (id est, ''Parerga e
Paralipomena''),
also Freud at last quoted the
"porcupine" in his
thougth 'bout "the discomfourt in the
society". Both
Schopenhauer & Nietzsche promoted having
for
themself darkness & pain. Perhaps giving
unconscious thread to
future nazi ideology... pain as a value in
itself without
any salvation.
>The Buddhist
practice is just another
>way of
surviving. Ultimately I don't think
>there's
anybody in the world who hasn't sometimes
>felt what
Buddha felt when he said "All Life
>is
Suffering." And I also don't think
there's
>any Buddhist
out there who hasn't sometimes felt
>that life was
just peachy keen and a whole lot
>of fun.
"Vistors to Cambodia have come away
charmed by the lush
beauty of the countryside and the smiling
people.
But the violent side and the Cambodian life
can manifest
itself without warning.
''Cambodian have this darkness, which is part
of the
shadow of their sweetness,'' says David
Chandler, who has
written a biography of Pol Pot and several
histories of
the country. ''Many of us who keep going
there still hard
to understand.'' Chandler observes that Pol
Pot, with his
gentle voice, never failed to charm those he
met. He
liked to quote French poetry. This was the
same man who had
his staff executed after his house in Phnom
Penh had
power failure."
>And China was
more Confician
>than Vietnam
-- how would he explain Mao's crimes
>against
humanity? This just doesn't stand up,
>it's just the
kind of dull analytic blather
>that keeps
political pundits employed, in my
>never-very-humble
(but I'm trying) opinion.
>
"Ancient violence takes on new forms:
the
practice of setting fire to brides because of
the inadequacy of their dowries is on
increase,
there is terrifying evidence that ritual
child
sacrifice is being practiced by some
followers
of the cult of goddess Kali, and communal
violence
erupts regularly" -- Salman Rushdie,
1997.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Wittgenstein's dream (Re: Was Burroughs really a beat writer?)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSI.3.95.970813195003.25110D-100000@global.california.com>
References:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970812220342.23103A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
Michael et al.
friends,
Ludwig
Wittgenstein (1889-1951) was indeed a very tormented soul:
Ludwig every nite
dreamed of cold & deep place into himself own mind, lifting up a
handkerchief & scared of worms & creeping slimy beeings found there.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
At 20.04 13/08/97
-0700,
"Michael R.
Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM> wrote:
> "Wittgenstein said that if the universe
is pre-recorded, the only thing
> not pre-recorded is those recordings themselves.
In my work,
> the cut-ups and all, I attempt to get at the
substance of the
> recordings."
> - William S.
Burroughs
> (quoted from
memory)
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: On
the Road: Chad King
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199708210459.XAA03288@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com>
References:
Good mornig
friends,
(stated that CHAD
KING in the JK's OTR novel is Hal Chase) please check:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/
"Hal Chase
left Denver to enroll at Columbia University, and Cassady traveled to New York
to visit him in December 1946."
saluti,
Rinaldo.
*
The bus came by
and I got on, that's when it all began There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of
the bus to Nevereverland' ('The Other One' by The Grateful Dead) *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Hal
Chase.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Chase shared a
room with Ginsberg and was a close friend of Kerouac's. In the fall of 1946,
Chase received a visit from his hometown friend Neal Cassady, which is the
event that begins the book 'On The Road.' Hal Chase appears in this novel as
Chad King, who later snubs his Denver friend 'Dean Moriarty.' To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The Eyes
Of The Sardines.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
many people
almost unknown
canned sardines
Henri Cru aka
Remi Boncoeur
(has capital letter
message
illiterate)
Neal Cassady aka
Dean Moriarty
(has a book
the first third)
packed like sardines
Jack Kerouac aka
Sal Paradiso (has desolation angels
part two)
packed like canned sardines
& others
& others
please before eating
close the eyes of the sardines
those big 1950s windfalls
please
before eating
close the eyes of those canned sardines
&others &others &others
i think of you
often BEATs!
before digital tape
before 'puter
before the yellow radiation suits
i think of you
often...
gregory corso aka
gregorio nunzio corso
(the bomB)
before
get rid of everything, funny things are
everywhere
they wear radiation suits,
before
pre-taped-recorded world wake up say something
EVERYONE HAS THEIR 15 MINUTES OF FAME!
& bob dylan
can changin' lyrics
& neal young
was young 20 on Sugar Mountain,
you are so sweet! YOU are so sweet!
AND SO ON...
packed like
canned sardines many people
almost unknown
you can't eat
those sardines with such big open eyes
myself image one time is gone.
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
aggressor.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Don't use the telephone
People are never ready to answer it.
Use poetry. --- Jack Kerouac, 1970.
Jack Kerouac must
have changed the names (using psedonymous) being afraid of the retaliations.
id est,
JK after have
published his novel "The Subterraneans" was beaten violently by a
person represented in a character, (who was the aggressor?)
This aggression
frightened much Jack & he started to attack his old beat friends & take
to drink.
saluti,
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Who?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Are you Mr. Allen Ginsberg?
On of them.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWd)
Who?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>>From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>>
>> Are you Mr. Allen Ginsberg?
>>
>> On of them.
>>
te1etypEd m3ssag3
>From:
B1FF@SCHIZO.ORG (ALAN YOOOO)
> ONLY THE TRUTH WIL TRIUMPH OVUR DECEPSHUN +
> LAST 4VUR.
>
he had a suitcase
& 3 tHree head of lettuce
or
thr33 headS S
of l3ttuCe
th3re is there
is
the MAN has a suitcase
he must go
a far tiny voice
you must go1!
U must GO11
televised or t3l3typ3d
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: OTR
movie
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
hello beats,
here a list of
novels translated into movie that, i think, the efforts have been valid:
"Shining"
by Stanley Kubrick,
the movie is
better than the Stephen King's novel.
"Blade
Runner" by Ridley Scott
(credits for the
title to William S. Burroughs), the movie is wonderful equal to
Philip K. Dick's
novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep."
"One Flew
Over the Cuckoo's Nest" by Milos Forman & Ken Kesey's novel are both
excellent.
the translation
of a novel from a language to another, i.e. american into any other language,
is the most way a lot of people around the world read the Beat Lit & it's
good if the translator (or the director, speakin'bout film) matchs & loves
the atmosfere (the time) when the action has happened.
-*-
after the
Ginsberg's death went out a new italian translation of "Howl" &
"Kaddish" intended to bring up to date the original 1968 (so called
old italian translation).
words that are
actually using in italian language dont' match the "old" poem, &
in order to modernize a work the result, in my opinion, is disappointing.
-*-
im' afraid at the
moment when an italian translator got an idea to give to italians a
"modernized" translation of "On The Road"...
saluti,
Rinaldo.
*
a century ago,
Leoncavallo's "La Boheme" (1897), the Leoncavallo opera it gave
Caruso his first real boost to fame *To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats.
Cc:
Bcc:
r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU,orpheus@in.the.shadows,dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
Paul Blackburn
Robin Blaser
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
Charles Bukowski
William S.
Burroughs { 5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 } William S. Burroughs Jr.
Lucien Carr
Paul Carroll
Louis R
Cartwright
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady { 8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 } Andy Clausen
Gregory Corso
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
Henry Cru
Diane DiPrima
John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
Bob Dylan
William Everson
(Brother Antonus)
Richard Farina
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Charles Foster
Allen Ginsberg {
3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 } John Giorno
Brion Gysin
William Inge
John Cellon
Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Ted Joans
Joyce Johnson
Lenore Kandel
Bob Kaufman
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } Jan Kerouac
Ken Kesey
Seymour Krim
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
Timothy Leary
Lawrence Lipton
Malcom Lowry
Norman Mailer
Gerard Malanga
Edward Marshall
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } John Montgomery
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
Charles Olson
[Black Mountain School]
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Kenneth Rexroth
Hugh Romney
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Hubert Jr. Selby
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Jack Spicer
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
Alexander Trocchi
Anne Waldman
Lewis Warsh
Alan Watts
Lew Welch
Philip Whalen
John Wieners
William Carlos
Williams
-*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
28th august 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
credits to
Richard M.
Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU> OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
David Schwarm
<dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu> -*-
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a Jack
Kerouac's poem dated 1970.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
To Edward Dahlberg by Jack Kerouac
Don't use the telephone.
People are never ready to answer it.
Use poetry.
1970
from "Scattered poems",
1970, 1971 (c) The Estate of Jack Kerouac.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Il
Postino (Re: Movies from books....)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997082719564436@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Antoine,
the author
Antonio Skarmeta wrote the book "Ardente paciencia" in 1985, from the
good book derives the good film "Il postino" directed by Michael
Radford in 1994,
Massimo Troisi (1953-1994) in his last film
presence,
everyone mourned his death.
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
Antoine Maloney
wrote:
>Oh ye of
little faith! ....it could turn out
fine!
>
> What about "Sheltering Sky"
or "The English Patient"? ...or the
>movies
mentioned by Adrien and others? ...was
"Il Postino" a book first? If
>so, it must
have been dyn-o-mite by Matt and Paul's logic.
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: THE
KINGFISHERS a Charles Olson's poem (Re: Beats.)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.970827181212.8487J-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828000110.006a0708@pop.gpnet.it>
THE KINGFISHERS by Charles Olson
1
What does not
change / is the will to change
He woke, fully
clothed, in his bed. He
remembered only
one thing, the birds, how when he came in, he had gone around the rooms and got
them back in their cage, the green one first, she with the bad leg, and then
the blue, the one they had hoped was a male
Otherwise? Yes,
Fernand, who had talked lispingly of Albert &
Angkor
Vat.
He had left the
party without a word. How he got up, got into his
coat,
I do not know.
When I saw him, he was at the door, but it did not
matter,
he was already
sliding along the wall of the night, losing himself in some crack of the ruins.
That it should have been he who said
"The
Kingfishers!
who cares
for their
feathers
now?"
His last words
had been, "The pool is slime." Suddenly everyone, ceasing their talk,
sat in a row around him, watched they did not so much hear, or pay attention,
they wondered, looked at each other, smirked, but listened, he repeated and
repeated, could not go beyond his thought "The pool the kingfishers' feathers were wealth why did the export stop?"
It was then he
left
2
I thought of the
E on the stone, and of what Mao said la lumiere"
but the kingfisher
de l'aurore"
but the kingfisher flew west
est devant nous!
he got the color of his breast
from the heat of the setting sun!
The features are,
the feebleness of the feet (syndactylism of the 3rd
&
4th digit)
the bill,
serrated, sometimes a pronunced beak, the wings where the color is, short and
round, the tail inconspicuous.
But not these
things were the factors. Not the birds.
The legends are
legends. Dead,
hung up indoors, the kingfisher will not indicate a favoring wind,
or avert the
thunderbolt. Nor, by its nesting, still the waters, with the new year., for
seven days.
It is true, it
does nest with the opening year, but not on the waters.
It nests at the
end of a tunnel bored by itself in a bank. There, six or eight white and
translucent eggs are laid, on fishbones not on bare clay, on bones thrown up in
pellets by the birds.
On these rejectamenta
(as they
accumulate they form a cup-shaped structure) the young
are
born.
And, as they are
fed and grow, this nest of excrement and decayed
fish
becomes
a dripping, fetid mass
Mao concluded:
nous devons
nous lever
et agir!
3
When the
attentions change / the jungle leaps in
even the stones are split
they rive
Or,
enter
that other
conqueror we more naturally recognize he so resembles ourselves
But the E
cut so rudely on
that oldest stone
sounded
otherwise,
was differently
heard
as, in another
time, were treasures used:
(and, later, much
later, a fine ear thought a scarlet coat)
"of green feathers feet, beaks and eyes
of gold
"animal likewise,
resembling snails
"a large wheel, gold, with figures of
unknown four-foots,
and worked with tufts of leaves, weight
3800 ounces
"last, two birds, of thread and
featherwork, the quills
gold, the feet
gold, the two birds perched on two reeds
gold, the reeds arising from two embroidered
mounds,
one yellow, the other
white.
"And from each reed hung
seven feathered tassels.
In this instance,
the priests
(in dark cotton
robes, and dirty,
their dishvelled
hair matted with blood, and flowing wildly over their shoulders)
rush in among the
people, calling on them to protect their gods
And all now is
war
where so lately
there was peace.
and the sweet
brotherhood, the use
of tilled fields.
Not one death but
many,
not accumulation
but change, the feed-back proves, the feed-back is the law
Into the same river no man steps twice
When fire dies air dies
No one remains, nor is, one
Around an
appearance, one common model, we grow up many. Else how is it,
if we remain the
same,
we take pleasure
now
in what we did
not take pleasure before? love contrary objects? admire and/for find fault? use
other words, feel another passions, have nor figure, appearance, disposition,
tissue the same?
To be in different states without a change
is not a possibility
We can be
precise. The factors are
in the animal
and/or the machine the factors are communication and/or control, both involve
the message. And what is the message? The message is a discrete or continuous
sequence of measurable events distributed
in time
is the birth of
air, is
the birth of
water, is
a state between
the origin and
the end, between
birth and the
beginning of
another fetid
nest
is change,
presents
no more than
itself
And the too
strong grasping of it,
when it is
pressed together and condensed, loses it
This very thing
you are
II
They buried their dead in a sitting posture
serpent cane razor ray
of the sun
And she sprinkled water on the head of the
child, crying
"Cioa-coatl! Cioa-coatl!"
with her face to the west
Where the bones are found, in each personal
heap
with what each enjoyed, there is always
the Mongolian louse
The light is in
the east. Yes. And we must rise, act. Yet in the west, despite the apparent
darkness (the whiteness which covers all), if you look, if you can bear, if you
can, long enough
as long as it was necessary for him, my guide
to look into the yellow of the
longest-lasting rose
so you must, and,
in that whiteness, into that face, with what candor,
look
and, considering
the dryness of the place
the long absence of an adequate race
(of the two who first came, each a
conquistador, one healed,
the
other
tore the eastern idols down, toppled
the temple walls, which, says the excuser
were black from human gore)
hear
hear, where the
dry blood talks
where the old appetite walks
la piu' saporita
et migliore
che si possa
truovar al mondo
where it hides,
look
in the eye how it
runs
in the flesh /
chalk
but under these petals
in the emptiness
regard the light, contemplate
the flower
whence it arose
with what violence benevolence is bought
what cost in gesture justice brings
what wrongs domestic rights involve
what stalks
this silence
what pudor pejorocracy affronts
how awe, night-rest and neighborhood can rot
what breeds where dirtiness is law
what crawls
below
III
I am no Greek,
hath not th'advantage.
And of course, no
Roman:
he can take no
risk that matters,
the risk of
beauty least of all.
But I have my
kin, if for no other reason than (as he said, next of kin) I commit myself,
and, given my freedom, I'd be a cad
if I didn't.
Which is most true.
It works out this
way, despite the disadvantage.
i offer, in
explanation, a quote:
si j'ai du gout,
ce n'est gueres
que pour la terre
et les pierres
Despite the
discrepancy (an ocean courage age) this is also true: if I have any taste
it is only
because I have interested myself in what was slain in the sun
I pose you your question:
shall you uncover
honey / where maggots are?
I hunt among stones
=========================================
Michael Stutz wrote:
>On Thu, 28
Aug 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> Charles
Olson [Black Mountain School]
>
>I confess, I
never understood his poetry. I don't know how to read it.
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: a
Jack Kerouac's poem dated 1970.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3404DC4A.19C0@sunflower.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970828003017.006c7824@pop.gpnet.it>
Patricia,
i think the poem
is the great poet Jack Kerouac's last word/message,
un grande ciao da
Rinaldo.
*
"In sooth I
know not why I am so sad."
--- The Merchant
Of Venice, William Shakespeare.
*
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> To Edward Dahlberg by Jack Kerouac
>>
>> Don't use the telephone.
>> People are never ready to answer it.
>> Use poetry.
>>
>> 1970
>>
>>
from "Scattered poems",
>> 1970, 1971 (c) The Estate of Jack
Kerouac.
>Rinaldo,
>thank you. i
appreciate you sharing the source. ciao
>p
>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Thursday
Morning.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
look at the pony!
teardrops
misting my eyes
look at the pony!
in the morning
i will bring you
to the circus
look at the pony!
but early in the dawn the circus has gone
white grass on the meadows
& tiny fog
you haven't
teardrops
happy childhood next year the circus will be here
our limits
are only
technical matter
BUT
into
this supermarket aisle
i feel
suddenly old.
Rinaldo.
28th aug 1997.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Men Of
The Mountains.(Beats)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
friends,
let me quote
Walter Campbell:
"Maybe
Snyder gets short-changed because of his "man of the mountains"
persona.
That's one of the
many paradoxes of the Beat movement: the urban, erudite east-coast leg of the
Beat movement seems antithetical to the laid-back, naturalistic bent of the
California clan."
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats.
30th aug 1997
Cc:
dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu,walter.campbell@usa.net,brooklyn@netcom.com
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\BEATS.xls;
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen
---
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
---
Paul Blackburn
---
Robin Blaser
---
Bonnie Bremser
---
Ray Bremser
---
Chandler Brossard
---
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" ---
William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
Frank
Carmody,
Will
Dennison,
Old
Bull Lee"
---
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
---
John Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black Mountain
School] ---
Caleb Carr
---
Lucien Carr
---
Paul Carroll
---
Louis R
Cartwright
---
Carolyn Cassady
---
Neal Cassady {8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" ---
Tom Clark [Paris
Review]
---
Andy Clausen
---
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" ---
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
---
Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
---
Diane DiPrima
---
John Doe
---
Kirby Doyle
---
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
---
Bob Dylan
---
William Everson
(Brother Antonus)
---
Richard Farina
---
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
"Lorenzo
Monsanto,
Larry O'Hara
Danny
Richman"
---
Charles Foster
---
Allen Ginsberg {3
Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
Carlo
Marx"
---
John Giorno
---
Morris Graves
---
Brion Gysin
---
William Inge
---
Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
---
John Cellon
Holmes
---
Herbert Huncke
---
Ted Joans
---
Joyce Johnson
---
Lenore Kandel
---
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } ---
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
Leo
Percepied, Ray Smith,
Jack, Peter
Martin,
Sal
Paradise"
---
Jan Kerouac
---
Ken Kesey
---
Franz Kline
---
Seymour Krim
---
Tuli Kupferberg
---
Joanne Kyger
---
Philip Lamantia
---
Jay Landesman
---
Fran Landesman
---
James Laughlin
---
Timothy Leary
---
Lawrence Lipton
---
Malcom Lowry
---
Norman Mailer
---
Gerard Malanga
---
Edward Marshall
---
Peter Martin
---
Lewis McAdams
---
Joanna McClure
---
Michael McClure
---
Taylor Mead
---
David Meltzer
---
Jack Micheline
---
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } ---
John Montgomery
---
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao
---
Harold Norse
---
Frank O'Hara
---
Charles Olson {27
dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School] ---
Peter Orlovsky
---
Kenneth Patchen
---
Thomas Parkinson
---
Nancy Peters
---
Stuart Z. Perkoff
---
Charles Plymell
---
Dan Propper
---
Kenneth Rexroth
{22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance] ---
Theodore Roethke
---
Hugh Romney
---
Michael Rumaker
---
Ed Sanders
---
Mark Schorer
---
Hubert Jr. Selby
---
Gary Snyder
---
Carl Solomon
---
Jack Spicer
---
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
---
Charles Upton
---
Janine Pommy Vega
---
Mark Tobey
---
Alexander Trocchi
---
Anne Waldman [St.
Mark's Poetry Project, New York] ---
Lewis Warsh
---
Alan W. Watts
---
Lew Welch
---
Philip Whalen
---
John Wieners
---
William Carlos
Williams
---
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] -*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
30th august 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the list of
credits & comments:
Walter Campbell <walter.campbell@usa.net>
Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Richard M. Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
-*-
addendum:
Return-Path:
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu> To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats.
Hi,
Thanks for the
update. I have used your list to start
my own little spreadsheet (with dates and famous works), please feel free to
use this as you see fit (it is a WIN3.1 MS Excel file - let me know if you need
a different format).
David Schwarm Making jazz swing in 41
Southbrook Seventeen
syllables AIN'T Irvine, CA 92604 No square poet's job.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats
:The List updated 30th aug 1997 (b)
Cc:
Bcc:
dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen
---
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
---
Wallace Berman
---
Paul Blackburn
---
Robin Blaser
---
Richard Brautigan
---
Bonnie Bremser
---
Ray Bremser
---
Chandler Brossard
---
Lenny Bruce
---
Lord Buckley
---
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" ---
William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
Frank
Carmody,
Will
Dennison,
Old
Bull Lee"
---
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
---
John Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black Mountain
School] ---
Caleb Carr
---
Lucien Carr
---
Paul Carroll
---
Louis R
Cartwright
---
Carolyn Cassady
---
Neal Cassady {8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" ---
Tom Clark [Paris
Review]
---
Andy Clausen
---
Leonard Cohen
---
Bruce Conner
---
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" ---
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
---
Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
---
Jay deFeo
---
Diane DiPrima
---
John Doe
---
Kirby Doyle
---
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
---
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
---
Bob Dylan
---
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
---
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus)
---
Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
---
Richard Farina
---
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
"Lorenzo
Monsanto,
Larry O'Hara
Danny
Richman"
---
Charles Foster
---
Robert Frank
---
Allen Ginsberg {3
Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
Carlo
Marx"
---
John Giorno
---
Morris Graves
---
Brion Gysin
---
Dave Hazelwood
---
William Inge
---
Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
---
John Clellon
Holmes
---
Herbert Huncke
---
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
---
Joyce Johnson
---
Lenore Kandel
---
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } ---
Robert Kelly
---
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
Leo
Percepied, Ray Smith,
Jack, Peter
Martin,
Sal
Paradise"
---
Jan Kerouac
---
Ken Kesey
---
Franz Kline
---
Seymour Krim
---
Paul Krassner
[Realist]
---
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
---
Tuli Kupferberg
[Birth]
---
Joanne Kyger
---
Philip Lamantia
---
Jay Landesman
---
Fran Landesman
---
James Laughlin
---
Denise Levertov
---
Timothy Leary
---
Lawrence Lipton
---
Ron Loewinsohn
---
Malcom Lowry
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Norman Mailer
---
Gerard Malanga
---
Edward Marshall
---
Peter Martin
---
Lewis McAdams
---
Joanna McClure
---
Michael McClure
---
Taylor Mead
---
David Meltzer
---
Jack Micheline
---
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } ---
John Montgomery
---
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao
---
Harold Norse
---
Frank O'Hara
---
Charles Olson {27
dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School] ---
Peter Orlovsky
---
Kenneth Patchen
---
Thomas Parkinson
---
Nancy Peters
---
Stuart Z. Perkoff
---
Charles Plymell
---
Dan Propper
---
Kenneth Rexroth
{22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance] ---
Theodore Roethke
---
Hugh Romney
---
Michael Rumaker
---
Ed Sanders
---
Mark Schorer
---
Hubert Jr. Selby
---
Gary Snyder
---
Carl Solomon
---
Jack Spicer
---
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
---
Charles Upton
---
Janine Pommy Vega
---
Mark Tobey
---
Alexander Trocchi
---
Anne Waldman [St.
Mark's Poetry Project, New York] ---
Lewis Warsh
---
Alan W. Watts
---
Lew Welch
---
Philip Whalen
---
John Wieners
---
Jonathan Williams
---
William Carlos
Williams
---
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] -*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
30th august 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the list of
credits & comments:
Walter Campbell <walter.campbell@usa.net>
Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Richard M. Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
-*-
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Help, is there any list of the cities they drove through in OTR
Cc:
Bcc:
magrobi@MAIL.ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03007800b02dbb9f7c01@[160.45.231.7]>
References:
Ciao Matthias,
in the novel OTR
Sal & Dean travel:
===================================================
San Francisco (Mill City) - New York (Paterson)
-Oakland
-Tracy
-Manteca
-Madera
-Bakerfield
-Los Angeles
-Bakerfield
-Sabinal
-Madera
-Fresno
-Sabinal
-Los Angeles
-Indio, Arizona
-Blyte
-Salome
-Flagstaff, Arizona
-Dalhart, Texas
-St Louis, Missouri
-Columbus, Ohio
-Pittsburg, Pennsylvania
-Harrysburg
-New York
New York - San
Francisco - New York
-Baltimore, Maryland
-Washington
-Richmond, Virginia
-Testament
-Dunn, North Carolina
-Macon, South Carolina
-Flomaton, florida
-Mobile, Alabama
-New Orleans, Lousiana
-Algiers
-Baton Rouge
-Port Allen
-Opelousas
-Starks
-Deweyville
-Beaumont, Texas
-Houston
-Fredericksburg
-Sonora
-El Paso, Texas
-Ozona
-Las Cruces, New Mexico
-Benson, Arizona
-Tucson, Arizona
-Fort Lowell
-Palm Springs, California
-Bakersfield
-Tulare
-Madera
-San Francisco
-New York
===============================================
i hope this is a bit help,
saluti cordiali
da
Rinaldo.
Venezia-Mestre,
Italia.
At 14.04 30/08/97
+0200,
Matthias_Schneider
<magrobi@MAIL.ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>does anybody
have a list (or even a map on the disk) of all the cities they
>have gone
through (is Tucson in Arizona included?).
>I´d need the
information for my thesis.
>Thank you for
you support in advance.
>
>Matthias
(Berlin, Germany)
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Rinaldo: Books into movies, additions to your List
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<970830174526_1187896134@emout04.mail.aol.com>
References:
Arthur, Mike
& James e others friends,
the list of
"who is better" is useful, thanks from the people who cant' read the
original at first, i.e. i read "On The Road" in 1969 in an italian
translation, (not Ginsberg 'cuz of poetry is aside documented).
i think that
falling in love in Beat Lit is a matter who is over the stricted US world, but
i apologie in advance if some myself consideration can seem to encroach on yr
own territory. please friends, have a little faint smile for the european side
of the world...
1.
"Blade
Runner" by Ridley Scott. William S. Burroughs had written the first
screenplay and WSB & BR are/was for me a couple inseparable inprinting. the
beginning of the movie is the best futuristic image ever seen. the city with
rain like tears is matched only by the unforgettable William Gibson's phrase
"the sky above the port was the color of a tv tuned to a dead
channel" (Neuromancer), Gibson had his credits to William Burroughs (in an
interview speakin' of his novel Virtual Light).
2.
"Der
Amerikanische Freund" director Wim Wenders (1977) was from the novel
"Ripley's Game" by Patricia Highsmith's & is very great. Dennis
Hopper, Man Ray & the good feeling stay in my mind forever. Perhaps Wim
Wender is near the beat in his photographic works, his photos are sometime the
best image: John Lurie's kiss photo in Soho (black & white photo) &
Hollywood Bvd with star that "had the power!", & "Musso and
Franks" restaurant, "The Twin City Theatre", et cetera talk to
me beat.
3.
"La
strategia del ragno" by Bernardo Bertolucci from the Jorge Luis Borges'
short story is a must. i know that Bertolucci has a little to do with beat, but
his 2th film "last tango in paris" was censored & the film burned
& for a time Bertolucci 'cuz of the movie he lost his political rights.
thanks again friends
for yr patience,
Rinaldo.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Two
Comments & Beats:The List updated 31 aug 1997.
Cc:
Bcc:
christyg@pcpartner.net,dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970830155811.27f72e58@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
References:
Donald Allen
---
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
---
Wallace Berman
---
Paul Blackburn
[Black Mountain School]
---
Robin Blaser
---
Richard Brautigan
---
Bonnie Bremser
---
Ray Bremser
---
Chandler Brossard
---
Lenny Bruce
---
Lord Buckley
---
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" ---
William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
Frank
Carmody,
Will
Dennison,
Old Bull Lee"
---
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
---
John Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black Mountain
School] ---
Caleb Carr
---
Lucien Carr
"Damion"
---
Paul Carroll
---
Louis R
Cartwright
---
Carolyn Cassady
"Camille"
---
Neal Cassady {8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" ---
Tom Clark [Paris
Review]
---
Andy Clausen
---
Leonard Cohen
---
Bruce Conner
---
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" ---
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
---
Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
---
Jay deFeo
---
Diane DiPrima
---
John Doe
---
Kirby Doyle
---
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
---
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
---
Bob Dylan
---
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
---
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus)
---
Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
---
Richard Farina
---
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
"Lorenzo
Monsanto,
Larry O'Hara
Danny
Richman"
---
Charles Foster
---
Robert Frank
---
James Gauerholz
---
Allen Ginsberg {3
Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
Carlo
Marx"
---
John Giorno
---
Paul Goodman
---
Morris Graves
---
Brion Gysin
---
Dave Hazelwood
---
William Inge
---
Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
---
John Clellon
Holmes
---
Herbert Huncke
---
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
---
Joyce Johnson
---
Lenore Kandel
---
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } ---
Robert Kelly
---
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
Leo
Percepied, Ray Smith,
Jack, Peter
Martin,
Sal
Paradise"
---
Jan Kerouac
---
Ken Kesey
---
Franz Kline
---
Seymour Krim
---
Paul Krassner
[Realist]
---
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
---
Tuli Kupferberg [Birth]
---
Joanne Kyger
---
Philip Lamantia
---
Jay Landesman
---
Fran Landesman
---
James Laughlin
---
Denise Levertov
[Black Mountain School] ---
Timothy Leary
---
Lawrence Lipton
[The Holy Barbarians]
---
Ron Loewinsohn
---
Malcom Lowry
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Norman Mailer
---
Gerard Malanga
---
Edward Marshall
---
Peter Martin
---
Lewis McAdams
---
Joanna McClure
---
Michael McClure
---
Taylor Mead
---
David Meltzer
---
Jack Micheline
---
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } ---
John Montgomery
---
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao
---
Harold Norse
---
Frank O'Hara
---
David Ohle
---
Charles Olson {27
dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School] ---
Peter Orlovsky
---
Kenneth Patchen
---
Thomas Parkinson
---
Nancy Peters
---
Stuart Z. Perkoff
---
Charles Plymell
---
Dan Propper
---
Kenneth Rexroth
{22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance] ---
Theodore Roethke
---
Hugh Romney
---
Michael Rumaker
---
Ed Sanders
---
Mark Schorer
---
Hubert Jr. Selby
---
Gary Snyder
---
Carl Solomon
---
Jack Spicer
---
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
---
Charles Upton
---
Janine Pommy Vega
---
Mark Tobey
---
Alexander Trocchi
---
Anne Waldman [St.
Mark's Poetry Project, New York] ---
Lewis Warsh
---
Alan W. Watts
"Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" ---
Lew Welch
---
Philip Whalen
---
John Wieners
[Black Mountain School]
---
Jonathan Williams
---
William Carlos
Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963} ---
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] -*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
31th august 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the list of
credits & comments:
Walter Campbell <walter.campbell@usa.net> Greg
Christy <christyg@pcpartner.net>
Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM> Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU> Richard M.
Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
Mike Rice <mrice@centuryinter.net>
David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
-*-
Addenda comments:
1. Subject: Re:
William Inge ========================== At 17.03 30/08/97 -0400,
Mike Rice
<mrice@centuryinter.net>wrote:
>At 02:22 PM
8/30/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>Hello
Mike,
>>i agree
with u, William Inge looks like Tennessee Williams.
>>
>>BUT
William Inge introduced the _hyperprotective_ character
>>of the
"Mom" that seems to yield gay sons & match the
>>origin
& development of some beat life...
>>
>>thanks
for yr comment,
>>saluti,
>>Rinaldo.
>>ps.
please, have i the permission to include yr name & message
>>in the
credits for the Beats database?
>>
>>===================
your message ===================
>>Mike Rice
wrote:
>>>I
love this guy's plays, at least Picnic, but he's
>>>a sad
homosexual from St. Louis, a newspaper critic
>>>who
idolized Tenessee Williams, and wanted to follow
>>>in
his footsteps. Tell me how he was ever a
beat.
>>>
>>>Mike
Rice
>>=====================================================
>>
>>
>You have my
permission to use whatever you want from
>my note.
>
>BUT William
Inge introduced the _hyperprotective_ character
>of the
"Mom" that seems to yield gay sons & match the
>origin &
development of some beat life...
>
>The above is
very interesting, so why don't you discuss it with
>the rest of
us. It appears to be a pet theory of
your own,
>sounds
fascinating. It also implies that many
beat characters
>and their
authors are at least, latently, homosexual.
Lets have the discussion
>on the Beat
List, shall we?
>
>Mike Rice
>
>
Mike,
i think that i
defend the presence of William Inge (influenced Tennessee Williams some beat?)
in the Beats:The List.
a thread regard
the "Mom" is at the moment for some reason for me a painful.
saluti
Rinaldo.
====================================================
2.
Return-Path:
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
Reply-To:
<christyg@pcpartner.net>
From: "Greg
Christy" <christyg@pcpartner.net> To: "Rinaldo Rasa"
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
beats list
Date: Sat, 30 Aug
1997 10:04:07 -0000
X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
----------
> From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rasa@gpnet.it>
> Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
> Subject: the
beats list
> Date:
Wednesday, August 27, 1997 10:08 PM
>ken kesey,i
don't think so! I'm not sure he would either.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Invisible Friend.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
nine times out of ten
i think the Beats
are hopeful
an invisible hand
acts as Beat's guide
they live in a Paradiso Terrestre
anything happens
wars
BOMB
massacres
they
with
childish
eyes
look at the world.
Rinaldo.To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
Cc:
Bcc: tara123125@aol.com,esaylor@sprynet.com,dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu,dckom@atlcom.net
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen
---
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
---
Wallace Berman
---
Stephen Jesse
Bernstein
---
Paul Blackburn
[Black Mountain School]
---
Robin Blaser
---
Richard Brautigan
---
Bonnie Bremser
---
Ray Bremser
---
Chandler Brossard
---
Lenny Bruce
---
Lord Buckley
---
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" ---
William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
Frank
Carmody,
Will
Dennison,
Old
Bull Lee"
---
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
---
John Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black Mountain
School] ---
Caleb Carr
---
Lucien Carr
"Damion"
---
Paul Carroll
---
Louis R
Cartwright
---
Carolyn Cassady
"Camille"
---
Neal Cassady {8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" ---
Tom Clark [Paris
Review]
---
Andy Clausen
---
Leonard Cohen
---
Bruce Conner
---
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" ---
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
---
Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
---
Jay deFeo
---
Diane DiPrima
---
John Doe
---
Kirby Doyle
---
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
---
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
---
Bob Dylan
---
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
---
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus)
---
Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
---
Richard Farina
---
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
"Lorenzo
Monsanto,
Larry O'Hara
Danny
Richman"
---
Tom Field [Spicer
Circle]
---
Charles Foster
---
Robert Frank
---
James Gauerholz
---
Allen Ginsberg {3
Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
Carlo Marx"
---
John Giorno
---
Paul Goodman
---
Morris Graves
---
Brion Gysin
---
Dave Hazelwood
---
William Inge
---
Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
---
John Clellon
Holmes
---
Herbert Huncke
---
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
---
Joyce Johnson
---
Lenore Kandel
---
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } ---
Robert Kelly
---
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
Leo
Percepied, Ray Smith,
Jack, Peter
Martin,
Sal
Paradise"
---
Jan Kerouac
---
Ken Kesey
---
Franz Kline
---
Seymour Krim
---
Paul Krassner
[Realist]
---
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
---
Tuli Kupferberg
[Birth, The Fugs]
---
Joanne Kyger
---
Philip Lamantia
---
Jay Landesman
---
Fran Landesman
---
James Laughlin
---
Denise Levertov
[Black Mountain School] ---
Timothy Leary
---
Lawrence Lipton
[The Holy Barbarians]
---
Ron Loewinsohn
---
Philomene Long
---
Malcom Lowry
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Norman Mailer
---
Gerard Malanga
---
Edward Marshall
---
Peter Martin
---
Lewis McAdams
---
Joanna McClure
---
Michael McClure
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Taylor Mead
---
David Meltzer
---
Jack Micheline
[SF<LA<NY poet]
---
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } ---
John Montgomery
---
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao
---
Harold Norse
---
Frank O'Hara
---
David Ohle
---
Charles Olson {27
dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School] ---
Peter Orlovsky
---
Kenneth Patchen
---
Thomas Parkinson
---
Nancy Peters
---
Stuart Z. Perkoff
---
Charles Plymell
---
Dan Propper
---
Kenneth Rexroth
{22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance] ---
Frank Rios
---
Theodore Roethke
---
Hugh Romney
---
Michael Rumaker
---
Ed Sanders [Peace
Eye Bookstore]
---
Mark Schorer
---
Tony Scibella
---
Hubert Jr. Selby
---
Gary Snyder
---
Carl Solomon
---
Jack Spicer
---
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
---
Charles Upton
---
Janine Pommy Vega
---
John Thomas
---
Mark Tobey
---
Alexander Trocchi
---
Tom Waits
[Foreign Affairs]
---
Anne Waldman [St.
Mark's Poetry Project, New York] ---
Lewis Warsh
---
Alan W. Watts
"Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" ---
Lew Welch
---
Philip Whalen
---
John Wieners
[Black Mountain School]
---
Jonathan Williams
---
William Carlos
Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963} ---
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] -*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
2th september
1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the list of
credits & comments:
Walter Campbell <walter.campbell@usa.net> David
Christian dckom@atlcom.net
Greg Christy <christyg@pcpartner.net> Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Richard M. Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
Mike Rice <mrice@centuryinter.net>
David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
Eric Saylor esaylor@sprynet.com
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net> Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Tara123125 tara123125@aol.com
-*-
Addenda comments:
1.=============================
Return-Path:
<dckom@atlcom.net>
From:
dckom@atlcom.net (dckom)
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 31 aug 1997 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:20:00 GMT
Organization:
W.S.A.
Reply-To:
dckom@atlcom.net
Hi,
By Ed Sanders and
Tuli Kumferberg you should note The Fugs.
By Sanders, Peace
Eye Bookstore.
Paul Goodman was
Black Mountain School, except they threw him out for being gay.
Good project,
thanks for the work.
David Christian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free thought, neccessarily involving freedom of speech and press, I may tersely
define thus:no opinion a law-no opinion a crime.
Alexander Berkman
2.===============================
Return-Path:
<tara123125@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug
1997 18:45:05 -0400
Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
tara123125@aol.com (Tara123125)
Organization: AOL
http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re:
BEATs list
SnewsLanguage:
English
Regarding your
request to add names to your beat list--
May I suggest the
following Beat generation poets:
John Thomas,
Philomene Long, Frank Rios and Tony Scibella. They can be found, along with
Stuart Perkoff, in John Maynard's "Venice West: The Beat Generation in
Southern California". Also see LA Beats Web Site-
HTTP://members.aol.com/labeats
3.
===================================== Return-Path: <esaylor@sprynet.com>
From:
esaylor@sprynet.com (Eric Saylor) To: rasa@gpnet.it
Subject: beat
list
Date: Tue, 02 Sep
1997 05:42:05 GMT
Please add
Stephen Jesse Bernstein. Poet, author, beat, suicide in 1992, Seattle WA USA.
Thanks.
Eric
============= end
of comments ====================== To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Wednesday, September 4, 1957.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<340C1C31.575C@sunflower.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970902142032.006db37c@pop.gpnet.it>
" Shortly before midnight on Wednesday,
September 4, 1957, Jack Kerouac and Joyce Johnson, a young writer he was living
with, left her apartment on the Upper West Side in New York City to wait at a
newsstand at Sixty-sixth Street and Broadway for the next day's New York Times
to come off the delivery truck. Kerouac had been alerted by his publisher that
his novel On the Road would be reviewed in that issue, and so they bought the
first copy of the Times they could pull from the stack.
Standing under a
street lamp, they turned the pages until they found the column "Books of
the Times"--- Ann Charters" To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Beats:The List (Deluxe Version on the Web)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Patricia wrote:
>Rinaldo,
>an absolutely
shit kicking list. i love it. am
trying to create a
>file that
talks a little bit about each of these people.
I am working
>on the
connections between them. Could be a thesis.
>p
>
>
Patricia &
friends,
thanks for yr
support. i've write Patricia's motto in the top of the page of the deluxe
version of the Beats:The List (thanks James Stauffer for some suggestion for
the title).
on the Web,
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
ciao da
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Wednesday, September 4, 1957.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970904012714.263724ba@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
References:
At 02.33 04/09/97
-0400, Mike Rice wrote:
>At 07:43 PM
9/3/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>" Shortly before midnight on Wednesday,
September
>>4, 1957,
Jack Kerouac and Joyce Johnson, a young writer he
>>was
living with, left her apartment on the Upper West Side in New
>>York City
to wait at a newsstand at Sixty-sixth Street and
>>Broadway
for the next day's New York Times to come off the delivery
>>truck.
Kerouac had been alerted by his publisher that his novel
>>On the
Road would be reviewed in that issue, and so they bought
>>the first
copy of the Times they could pull from the stack.
>>Standing
under a street lamp, they turned the pages until they found the
>>column
"Books of the Times"--- Ann Charters"
>>
>>
>Hey, don't we
get the review, too. Or at least:
"and the rest is history!"
>
>Mike Rice
>
>
"The reviewer
was Gilbert Millstein, and he had written:
On the Road is the second novel by Jack
Kerouac, and its
publication is a historic occasion insofar as
the exposure of
an authentic work of art is of any great
moment in any age
in which the attention is fragmented and the
sensibilities are
blunted by the superlatives of fashion....
[The novel is]
the most beautifully executed, the clearest
and most important
utterance yet made by the generation Kerouac
himself
named years ago as "beat" and whose
principal avatar he is."
--*--
WAKE UP
MAN!
WAKE UP!
rINALDO.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Frusciante.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Kikka wrote:
"Jack
Frusciante (in English it sounds like Rustling Jack) is out of his group now.
He had been the
new Red Hot Chili Peppers' guitarist for two years. He was thin and brawny,
perhaps one meter seventy. His hairstyle always particular, his trousers short
and his shoes casual. He was not a genius, our Jack, but he did what he had to
do, without seeming too strange and crazy, like the other components of the
group.
Then, just when
success began, he left the group.
Why, why did he
abandon everything if he could be rich and famous?
Jack Frusciante
is a symbol. A symbol of a particular way of thinking.
If you just open
"Jack Frusciante e' uscito dal gruppo" (an Italian book written by
Enrico Brizzi) you will immediately understand.
Alex (the main
character) is not a common boy. He is not like his schoolmates, with big cars
and many blond girls all around them. He can't understand society's rules. He
can't love Aidi (a kind of girlfriend, but really a strange one) like a boy
loves a girl; he can't listen to disco music; he can't bear the hypocrisy that
exists inside all the people. So he loves Aidi without even a kiss, listens to
punk music (so angry and beautiful) and he waits for the greatest rebellion you
have ever seen.
Now, just like
Jack, also Alex is out of the group"
ciao,
Kikka &
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
SuperNova update 4 sep 1997 (Beats:The List)
Cc:
Bcc:
ipl1@columbia.edu,welch@ix.netcom.com,gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen [The
Evergreen Review]
---
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
---
Mary Beach
---
Wallace Berman
---
Stephen Jesse
Bernstein
---
Paul Blackburn
[Black Mountain School]
---
Robert Bly
[Minnesota]
---
Robin Blaser
---
Richard Brautigan
---
Bonnie Bremser
---
Ray Bremser
---
Chandler Brossard
---
John A. Brownson
[San Francisco Oracle] ---
Lenny Bruce
---
Lord Buckley
---
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" ---
William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
Frank
Carmody,
Will
Dennison,
Old
Bull Lee"
---
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
---
John Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black Mountain
School] ---
Caleb Carr
---
Lucien Carr
"Damion"
---
Paul Carroll
---
Louis R
Cartwright
---
Carolyn Cassady
"Camille"
---
Neal Cassady {8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" ---
Tom Clark [Paris
Review]
---
Andy Clausen
---
Leonard Cohen
---
Bruce Conner
---
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" ---
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
---
Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
---
Jay deFeo
---
Diane DiPrima
---
Bob Dylan
---
John Doe
---
Kirby Doyle
---
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School, Big Table, Evergreen Review, Mesure] ---
William Duffy
[Minnesota]
---
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School, Experimental Review]
"Geoffrey
Donald"
---
Lawrence Durrell
[Circle]
---
Larry Eigner [Black
Mountain School]
---
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
---
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus)
---
Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
---
Richard Farina
---
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
"Lorenzo
Monsanto,
Larry O'Hara
Danny
Richman"
---
Tom Field [Spicer
Circle]
---
Charles Foster
---
Robert Frank
---
James Gauerholz
---
Allen Ginsberg {3
Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
Carlo Marx"
---
John Giorno
---
Paul Goodman
---
Morris Graves
---
Brion Gysin
---
Dave Hazelwood
---
Jan Herman
---
Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
---
John Clellon
Holmes
---
Herbert Huncke
---
William Inge
---
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
---
Joyce Johnson
---
Lenore Kandel
---
Allen Katzman
[East Village Other]
---
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } [Beatitude] ---
Robert Kelly
[Minnesota]
---
Edie Parker
Kerouac
---
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
Leo Percepied, Ray Smith,
Jack, Peter
Martin,
Sal
Paradise"
---
Jan Kerouac
---
Ken Kesey
---
Franz Kline
---
Seymour Krim
---
Paul Krassner
[Realist]
---
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
---
Tuli Kupferberg
[Birth, The Fugs]
---
Joanne Kyger
---
Philip Lamantia
[Circle] "Francis Da Pavia, David D'Angeli" ---
Jay Landesman
---
Fran Landesman
---
James Laughlin
---
George Leite
[Circle]
---
Denise Levertov
[Black Mountain School] ---
Timothy Leary
---
Lawrence Lipton
[The Holy Barbarians]
---
Ron Loewinsohn
---
Philomene Long
---
Malcom Lowry
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Norman Mailer
---
Gerard Malanga
---
William Margolis
[Beatitude]
---
Edward Marshall
---
Peter Martin
[City Lights, City Light Journal] ---
Lewis McAdams
---
Joanna McClure
---
Michael McClure
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Don McNeill
[hippie journalist]
---
Taylor Mead
---
David Meltzer
---
Jack Micheline
[SF<LA<NY poet]
---
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } ---
John Montgomery
---
Richard Moore
[Ark]
---
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao
---
Harold Norse
---
Frank O'Hara
---
David Ohle
---
Charles Olson {27
dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School] ---
Peter Orlovsky
"George, Simon Darlovsky" ---
Kenneth Patchen
---
Thomas Parkinson
[Ark]
---
Claude Pelieu
---
Nancy Peters
---
Stuart Z. Perkoff
---
Jurgen Ploog
---
Charles Plymell
[North Beach]
---
Dan Propper
---
Kenneth Rexroth
{22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
"Reinhold
Cacoethes"
---
Ron Rice [The
Flower Thief]
---
Frank Rios
---
Larry Rivers
---
Theodore Roethke
---
Hugh Romney
---
Michael Rumaker
---
Ed Sanders [Peace
Eye Bookstore]
---
Mark Schorer
---
Tony Scibella
---
Hubert Jr. Selby
---
Gary Snyder
"Japhy Ryder, Jarry Wagner, Gary Snyder" ---
Carl Solomon
---
Terry Southern
---
Jack Spicer
---
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
---
Charles Upton
---
Janine Pommy Vega
---
John Thomas
---
Mark Tobey
---
Alexander Trocchi
---
Giuseppe
Ungaretti [Circle]
---
Tom Waits
[Foreign Affairs]
---
Anne Waldman [St.
Mark's Poetry Project, New York] ---
Lewis Warsh
---
Alan W. Watts
"Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" ---
Carl Weissner
---
Lew Welch
"Dave Wain"
---
Philip Whalen
"Warren Coughlin, Ben Fagan" ---
John Wieners
[Black Mountain School]
---
Jonathan Williams
---
William Carlos
Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963} ---
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] ---
James Wright
[Minnesota]
---
Louis Zukofsky
[Circle]
-*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
4th september
1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the list of credits
& comments:
Walter Campbell <walter.campbell@usa.net> David
Christian dckom@atlcom.net
Greg Christy <christyg@pcpartner.net> Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Richard M. Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
Jym Mooney <vmooney@EXECPC.COM>
Gary Lee-Nova <gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com> Mike
Rice <mrice@centuryinter.net>
David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
Eric Saylor esaylor@sprynet.com
James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net> Michael
Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
Tara123125 tara123125@aol.com
(no name) <ipl1@columbia.edu>
Mike Welch welch@ix.netcom.com
-*-
Addenda comments:
1.=============================
Return-Path:
<ipl1@columbia.edu>
From:
ipl1@columbia.edu
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 31 aug 1997 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:12:56 GMT
X-Newsreader:
Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
You forgot Larry
Eigner of The Black Mountain School. In
fact, both Burroughs and Ginsberg considered him the best poet of the period.
The Beats used to
stay at his home often in Swampscott, Mass.
2.
=========================
Return-Path:
<stutz@dsl.org>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep
1997 21:42:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
X-Sender:
stutz@devel.nacs.net
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997 X-MS-URL: http://dsl.org/m/
Couple
additions/comments for you Rinaldo--
Don McNeill was a
hippie journalist whose short career (he died young) was chronicled in _Moving
Through Here_ [Citadel Underground, 1990].
Also what about
the scientists who influenced the Beats or were on their same wavelength -- are
they "Beat" enough? I'm thinking here of Count Korzybski, Oswald
Spengler, Wilhelm Reich [died in prison], and R.
Buckminster
Fuller [Black Mountain School].
> Stephen
Jesse Bernstein
This is a good
addition. It also opens the question of "who is Beat?" with the
latter-day poets -- are Lee Ranaldo and Sonic Youth friends Beat? etc.
3.
======================================== Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:52:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> From:
Jym Mooney <vmooney@EXECPC.COM> Subject: Re: Beats:The List update 2 sep 1997
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
I have always
included Terry Southern in my personal "beat list," at the very least
as a fellow traveler.
4.
=========*======================
Return-Path:
<ipl1@columbia.edu>
From:
ipl1@columbia.edu
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 3 sep 97 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 13:12:15 GMT
X-Newsreader:
Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
You also missed
Kerouac's first wife who has written extensively on the Beats and even has
selections from her writings in the Women Of The Beat Generation Book.
Edie Parker
Kerouac (also known as Edie Dietz - from a later husband) ============ end of
comments ===================================== To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
"burroughs: skin ovr steel"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970905094919.53110A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
References:
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
08/18/97
> ("burroughs:
skin ovr steel")
> the voice:
> gravel in an open
> wound.
> watching from aside
> camouflaged under
> coldsteel
suit and hat -
> hgwell's
invisible man
> without the bandages
> once the uniform of every businessman - inconspicuous in starch
> collar
>
> snap
> brim
> professional.
> beneath shadow
> of fedora:
> tight
> & taut
> skin
> pulled over --
> wrds skidding across the page in
>
cold
> push of
> wetbrick muscle
> observant nerves - feeling the tension
moving under the surface
> skin translucent
> (re)veal (ing)
> the biology of the
movements.
>
> the familiar pungent odour
> of
> cauterized
>
words.
>
>
september into
the bus stop
two men
were going out of
the cabin they are shouting
in the cold morning:
"only 50
dollars
o n l y 50 dollars!"
"3 a.m.
he wakes up he wakes up and looks at the billfold!"
LISTEN! listen dig your hole!
music
"look at the telephone book what's
up?"
"does you have forgotten the phone
numbers?"
dig your hole music
it is punching my head
it is punching my h e a d
"he has not
paid a cup of coffee not even only he has told me good-bye damn!"
m u s i c
m u s i c
m u s i c
m u s i c
m u s i
m u s
m u
m
.
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: chinese
Tong WSB quoted
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<9709062105.AA22086@sun.nankai.edu.cn>
References:
Friends,
i found in novel
"The Western Lands" a WSB quote related to the article he wrote at
the end of 1970's commented the mayor of SF George Moscone's & Harvey
Milk's murder
after the
shocking sentence WSB imagined a Gay State like the chinese Tong in order to
protect the gay community,
ten year later
Burroughs was again thinking about the Tong and clarifing, i think, the meaning
of the word tong we discussed some weeks ago.
-*-
"There are
many degrees of privacy. In some houses there is a public passage only through
the garden.
Others live in
open stalls on heavely traveled streets, or in the maze of tunnels under the
city, or on the roofs where the neighbors hang clothes to dry and tether their
sheep and goats and fowl. Some are entitled to exact a toll. And some routes
are the exclusive prerogative of a club, a secret society, a sect, a tong, a
profession or a trade. fights over passage rights are frequently and bloody.
There are no public services in this quarter, no police, fire, sanitation,
water, power or medical service. The are provided by families and clubs, if at
all." --- William S. Burroughs, The Western Lands, -7-, 1988.
-*-
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
t(off topic but have to get the last word in (might as well be honest)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<9709061220.aa13767@mail.cruzio.com>
References:
..."It may be quite simple
but now that it's done,
I hope you don't mind,
I hope you don't mind,
That I put down in words
How wonderful life is"...
---Elton John, Your Song (fragmnet)
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Sept. 6,
1997 - Elton John - tribute to Princess Diana
Cc:
Bcc: country@sover.net
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901b0371937f30a@[206.25.67.102]>
References:
<9709060843.aa09671@mail.cruzio.com>
Candle in the Wind
Sept. 6, 1997 - Elton John
- for Princess Diana
1. Goodbye England's rose, may you ever grow in
our hearts, You were the grace that placed itself where lives were torn apart,
You called out to our county, and you whispered to those in pain, Now you
belong to Heaven, and the stars spell out your name.
And it seems to me you've lived your life
like a candle in the wind,
Never fading with the sunset when the rain
set in,
And your footsteps will always fall here
along England's greenest
hills,
Your
candle's burned out long before your legend ever will.
2. Loveliness we've lost, those empty days
without your smile, This torch we'll always carry for our nation's golden
child, Even tho' we try, the truth brings us to tears, All our words cannot
express the joy you've brought us through the years.
And it seems to me you've lived your life
like a candle in the wind,
Never fading with the sunset when the rain
set in,
And your
footsteps will always fall here along England's greenest
hills,
Your
candle's burned out long before your legend ever will.
3. Goodbye England's rose, may you ever grow in
our hearts, You were the grace that placed itself where lives were torn apart,
Goodbye English rose, from the country lost without your soul, Who miss the
wings of your compassion more than you will ever know.
And it seems to me you've lived your life
like a candle in the wind,
Never fading with the sunset when the rain
set in,
And your
footsteps will always fall here along England's greenest
hills,
Your candle's
burned out long before your legend ever will.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The Art
Of Beat Maintenance.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Alan W. Watts remembered
THE WAY OF ZEN 1957
Rin Tin Tin & Zorro
...a numbers of years ago (i remember the
first
televised operas &
old dodge car &
platters' song
and sunny afternoon)
...a numbers of years ago
1947 Jack Kerouac wrote
then it was a fast walk along a
silvery,
dusty road beneath inky trees of
California-
a road like in The Mark of Zorro and a
road
like all the roads you see in Western B
movies
HOOT!
hooooooooooooot!
1997
by the way TODAY
except for hair pinned head
IS THAT A PROBLEM?
sure sure NOT just drunk...
spiders! VIRTUAL
REBELS!
caffeine addicted virtual rebels
IS that a problem?
ok THE WEB today look LIKE MORE
a PICASSO's painting
IN EVERY WAY
long live Zorro & Rin Tin Tin
my old friends!
Rinaldo.
9 sep 97
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Alex
magnetic file. (Kikka traslates)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341430D4.34E8@midusa.net>
References:
<3413F32A.482E@midusa.net> <34141F6A.62B1@pacbell.net> <3413B24B.2CF0@together.net>
friends,
a new italian
writer & On the Road (Sulla Strada),
"Jack
Frusciate e' uscito dal gruppo"
a novel written
by Enrico Brizzi.
Kikka has
translated a fragment,
saluti
Rinaldo.
---
"From the
magnetic file of Mister Alex D. I'm readin' Kerouac, and don't bother me 'cause
I'm readin' Kerouac, and I'm listenin' to all my records, and I'm readin' also
Tondelli and Andrea de Carlo that become my favourite italian writers.
I don't care
about seeing anyone.
I'm at my
granny's, gettin' ready for my removal, with my jollinvicta full of coverage
books, Bolognese writers' books, a pair of pyjamas and two or three shirts.
Aidi has never
seen my house.
At first, when we
had just met, we decided that she had to spend an afternoon at my house, but
when I told the Chancellor so, he kicked up a shindy, and the problem - ehm -
was essentialy that she was a girl.
... And since you
have to gain your spaces, and finding everything on a plate makes no-backboned
people and here we don't need no-backboned people, at most you can do as some
English students, that when invite a girl into their room unhinge the door.
Really
picturesque, but do we need it?
It's respect.
But since I
didn't want my parents to look Aidi up and down all the afternoon, I told her
about our dialogue and - many greetings - she has never been to my house.
When my
parents'll be away, such as the day after tomorrow very very early - my
family's shifts are incredible for the hour they happen such as a quarter to
six in the morning: it's obvious: you're so slow! - my house'll be closed
hermetically, locked up, and who's outside is outside and who's inside is
inside.
And since I want
Aidi to see my house after leaving, and since my parents - provident (!) - took
my keys in order to keep me away from the house, when I came back from England
, I went to a hardware store and I had two copies of the keys done, in spite of
any unforseen event.
The day after
tomorrow morning we'll use them to penetrate the mistery of the submerged flat,
and I can not answer the phone, 'cause I do read On the Road, now." ---
Kikka.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: update
10 sep 1997 Beat SuperNova (Beats:The
List)
Cc:
Bcc:
gordona111@aol.com,email@cdickens.com,sisyphus@polaris.mindport.net,christyg@pcpartner.net,esaylor@sprynet.com,esaylor@sprynet.com,dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341430D4.34E8@midusa.net>
References:
<3413F32A.482E@midusa.net> <34141F6A.62B1@pacbell.net> <3413B24B.2CF0@together.net>
Donald Allen [The
Evergreen Review, editor, poet, Grey Fox Press] Steve Allen [he played piano on
some of Kerouac's recordings] David Amram [helped Jack with some of his first
jazz poetry readings] Amari Baraka (Leroi Jones)
Wallace Berman
[SF avante garde artist] Stephen Jesse Bernstein [Poet, author, beat, suicide
in 1992, Seattle WA USA] Paul Blackburn
[Black Mountain School] Robin Blaser [poet, critic, associate of Duncan,
Spicer] Richard Brautigan [Change, novelist _Trout Fishing in America_] Bonnie
Bremser [wife of Ray]
Ray Bremser
Chandler
Brossard
Lenny Bruce
[comic]
Lord Buckley
[comic]
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" William S. Burroughs { 5
Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 } "Bull Hubbard, Frank Carmody, Will Dennison, Old
Bull Lee" William S. Burroughs Jr.
John Cage { 5 sep
1912 - 12 aug 1992 }[Black Mountain School] Edgar Cayce
Caleb Carr [Son
of Lucien _The Alienist_] Lucien Carr "Damion"
Paul Carroll
Louis R
Cartwright
Carolyn Cassady
"Camille"
Neal Cassady { 8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 } "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" Tom Clark
[Paris Review]
Andy Clausen
Leonard Cohen
[novelist _Beautiful Losers_, songwriter] Bruce Conner [filmaker]
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" Robert Creeley [Black Mountain School,
poet] Henry Cru "Remi Boncoeur"
Jay deFeo [San
Francisco Painter, _The Rose_] Diane DiPrima [Floating Bear, poetess,_Memoirs
of a Beatnik_] John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School, Experimental Review, SF
poet, associate, Spicer, Blazer] "Geoffrey Donald" Bob
Dylan
Larry Eigner
[Black Mountain School]
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus) [Poet, Monk] Larry Fagin [Adventures in Poetry]
Richard Farina
[novelist _Been Down So Long_, songwriter] Lawrence Ferlinghetti [San Francisco
Poetry Reinassance] "Lorenzo Monsanto, Larry O'Hara, Danny Richman"
Tom Field [Spicer Circle, JK's favorite painter] "Larry Meadows"
Charles Foster
Robert Frank
[filmaker]
James Gauerholz
[Burroughs aid and heir] Allen Ginsberg { 3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 }
"Irving Garden, Adam Morand, Alvah Goldbook, Leon Levinsky, Carlo
Marx" John Giorno
Paul Goodman
[psycologist, sociologist, _Growing Up Absurd_] Robert Gover
Morris
Graves
Brion Gysin
Dave Hazelwood
[printer of chapbooks , Auerhahn Press] Wally Hedrick [Gallery Six, husband of
Jay DeFeo] John Clellon Holmes [novelist, _Go_]
Herbert Huncke
[guru to Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs, hustler, _Guilty of Everything_]
William Inge
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
Joyce Johnson
[wife to JK]
Lenore Kandel
[poetess, _The Love Book_ East/West
house, "Ramona Schwartz"] Bob Kaufman { 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
John Kelly [Beatitude]
Robert Kelly
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz, Leo Percepied, Ray Smith, Jack,
Peter Martin, Sal Paradise" Jan Kerouac [_Baby Driver_]
Ken Kesey
[novelist, psychedelic revolutionary] Franz Kline
Seymour Krim
Paul Krassner
[Realist, satirist]
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
Tuli Kupferberg
[Birth, The Fugs]
Joanne Kyger
[poetess, wife (briefly) G. Snyder, girlfriend, Lew Welch, East/West house]
Philip Lamantia [surrealist poet]
Jay
Landesman
Fran
Landesman
James
Laughlin
Denise Levertov
[Black Mountain School] Timothy Leary [chemical revolutionary] Lawrence Lipton
[The Holy Barbarians]
Ron Loewinsohn
[Change]
Gerald Locklin
[poet, _The Long Beach Freeway_]
Philomene
Long
Malcom Lowry
[novelist, Under the Volcano] Bill MacNeill [Painter, Spicer Circle] Norman
Mailer "Harvey Marker"
Gerard
Malanga
Edward
Marshall
Peter Martin
Lewis
McAdams
Joanna McClure
[wife to Michael, poetess] Michael McClure [Journal for the Protection of All
Beings, poet, "Pat McLear"] Don McNeill [hippie journalist]
Taylor Mead
David
Meltzer
Jack Micheline
[SF LA NY poet]
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } John Montgomery
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao [City Light Bookstore fixture] Ken Nordine
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
[poet, _Hotel Wembley Poems_] David Ohle [Burroughs Circle]
Charles Olson {
27 dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970 }[Black Mountain School] Peter Orlovsky [wife to
Allen Ginsberg] "George, Simon Darlovsky" Kenneth Patchen
Thomas Parkinson
[Ark, UC Berkeley Prof, Casebook on the Beat] Claude Pelieu [Bulletin From
Nothing]
Nancy Peters
[partner with L. Ferlinghetti in City Lights, married to P. Lamantia] Stuart Z.
Perkoff
Charles Plymell
[North Beach, hobohemian poet, novelist] Dan Propper
Lou Reed
Kenneth Rexroth {
22 dic 1905 - 1982 }[Berkeley Reinassance, San Francisco Reinassance, Six
Gallery reading] "Reinhold Cacoethes" Steve Richmond [introduction
for Bukowsky] Frank Rios
Theodore
Roethke
Hugh Romney
[Wavey Gravey]
Michael
Rumaker
Ed Sanders [Peace
Eye Bookstore, The Fugs] Mark Schorer [UC Berkeley Prof, critic] Tony
Scibella
Hubert Jr. Selby
[NY, LA Novelist]
Patti Smith
Gary Snyder
[Poet, Reed College group] "Japhy Ryder, Jarry Wagner, Gary Snyder"
Carl Solomon [_with you in Rocklin_]
Terry Southern
[novelist, _Candy_]
Jack Spicer
[poet, associate of Duncan, Blazer] Hunter Stockton Thompson
Charles
Upton
Janine Pommy
Vega
John Thomas
Mark Tobey
Alexander Trocchi
[Living Theatre]
Giuseppe
Ungaretti [Circle]
Tom Waits
[songwriter, Foreign Affairs] Anne Waldman [Naropa Institute, St. Mark's Poetry
Project, New York] Lewis Warsh
Alan W. Watts
[_Beat Zen, Square Zen_] "Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" Lew Welch (Lewis
Barret Welch) { 16 aug 1926 - 23 may 1971 }[_Ring of Bone_, Reed College Group,
East/West House] "Dave Wain" Philip Whalen [Poet, Reed College Group]
"Warren Coughlin, Ben Fagan" John Wieners [Black Mountain School]
Jonathan
Williams
William Carlos
Williams { 17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963 } Clay Wilson
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] James Wright [Minnesota]
Lousi Zukofsky
[Circle]
=*=
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa
Venice-Mestre,
Italy.
last update 10th
september 1997
notice that this
list it's my own only responsibility the friends have always gimme the right
way
=*=
the list of credits
& comments:
gordon allen GordonA111@aol.com
Walter Campbell walter.campbell@usa.net C. Dickens
Books email@cdickens.com
David Christian dckom@atlcom.net
Greg Christy christyg@pcpartner.net
Marie Countryman country@sover.net
Patricia Elliott pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM Timothy K.
Gallaher gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU Richard M.
Kershenbaum r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU
OHearn orpheus@in.the.shadows
(no name) ipl1@columbia.edu
Jym Mooney vmooney@EXECPC.COM
Mike Rice mrice@centuryinter.net
David Schwarm dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu Eric Saylor esaylor@sprynet.com
Sisyphus sisyphus@polaris.mindport.net James
Stauffer stauffer@pacbell.net
Michael Stutz stutz@dsl.org
Tara123125 tara123125@aol.com
Mike Welch welch@ix.netcom.com
============
addenda ============
1.=*=
Return-Path:
<gordona111@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep
1997 01:26:56 -0400
Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
From:
gordona111@aol.com (GordonA111)
Organization: AOL
http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Beat
SuperNova update 5 sep 1997 (Beats:The List) SnewsLanguage: English
Hello ! John Clellon Holmes was my
brother-in-law. After 3 or 4 years of
cancer in his throat (much of which had been removed and he could not speak),
he died in 1988. A source of more info
(and an opening way to get more about a lot of the key beat generation people)
is:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/JohnClellonHolmes.html
-gordon allen
(GordonA111@aol.com)
2.=*=
Return-Path:
<esaylor@sprynet.com>
From:
esaylor@sprynet.com (Eric Saylor) To: rasa@gpnet.it
Subject: beat
list
Date: Tue, 02 Sep
1997 05:42:05 GMT
Please add
Stephen Jesse Bernstein. Poet, author, beat, suicide in 1992, Seattle WA USA.
Thanks.
Eric
3.=*=
Return-Path:
<sisyphus@polaris.mindport.net> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:13:52 -0400
(EDT) From: Sisyphus <sisyphus@polaris.mindport.net> To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Beat
SuperNova WWW update 6 sep 97
Just went there,
and read your previous list. I'd only
expunge Mailer (He's WWII journalism school)
but I don't like his stuff anyway...
I'd like to
comment that there are quite a number of deceased members on The List who's
birth and death dates are not included.
They really should be. Lew Welch
is notable for me. (But I don't remember
his.
'69?) Minor quibble. Exhaustive list. I'll have to copy it here.
Thank You.
====================
end of addenda ================================
Rinaldo reply to
Sisyphus:
Norman Mailer is appreciated by William S.
Burroughs
and Mailter's novel Ancient Evenings for
inspiration =*=*=To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: William
Everson (Brother Antoninus) Re: Monastic beat
Cc:
Bcc: Dufour
<dufour@ULISSE.IT>
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<2.2e.32.19970910152325.008cec0c@popd.ix.netcom.com>
References:
Francesco, John
& friends,
here some William
Everson archived information:
=record #1
"Christopher
L. Filkins" <filkins@INCH.COM> wrote: Everson was at one point
considered a member of the beat generation and I know he was a contientious
objector who spent WWII in a Civilian Public Service Camp.
=record #2
Paul McDonald -
Bon Air Branch <PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US> wrote: Poet named William
Everson. I've read that he was
associated with the Beats while he was in a monestery and was nicknamed
"The Beatnik Monk." I read a
wild ride of a poem of his in college called "The Screed of the Flesh." Saw a photo of him looking every bit as wild
and haggard as I'm told John the Baptist looked when he lived in the wilderness
eating nothing but locusts and frogs.
Everson seemed to
emulate another poet named Robinson Jeffers about whom I know absolutely
nothing save a poem called (I think) "Fire in the Hills," the last
line of which reads:
"The destruction that brings an
eagle from heaven
is better than mercy..."
I think both
(Everson definitely) are associated with the San Francisco Renaissance.
=record #3
Jennifer
Brontsema <bozokitty@MINDSPRING.COM> wrote: William Everson was a SF Beat
poet and was married to Mary Fabilli. Her linoleum-block artwork accompanied
two of his poems, "Triptych for the Living," and "Heavenly City,
Earthly City." Other works include
"A Frost Lay White on California" and "The Poet is Dead"
(written for Robinson Jeffers).
After Mary gave
Bill a copy of St. Augustine's
"Confessions," he became so enthralled with the Roman Catholic Church
that he converted to Catholicism, had their marriage annulled, and joined the
Dominican Friars as Brother Antoninus. He left the order in 1969 and died in
1984.
"Women of
the Beat Generation" (my source for these tidbits of info on Everson)
inlcudes a piece by Mary Norbert Korte entitled "Remembering Bill Everson,
Poet."
=record #4.
Rod Anstee
<Nastees@AOL.COM> wrote:
SPRING 1947. In
THOSE days ARK was a
postwar (post
WWII) magazine, more importantly an ANARCHIST magazine back when that word had
a more precise political meaning, beyond just "chaos." The opening
page of the magazine is devoted to an Editorial that begins:
" In direct opposition to the
debasement of human values made flauntingly evident by the war, there is rising
among writers in America, as elsewhere, a social consciousness which recognizes
the intergrity of the personality as the most substantial and considerable of
values. However, this recognition is still restricted to either small groups or
to isolated individuals, and has few organs of expression."
Sound familiar? Then the list of
contributors will as well, among them Kenneth Rexroth, James Laughlin, Robert
Duncan, William Everson, Thomas Parkinson, and -- wait for it -- Philip
LAMANTIA who contributes a single poem called "Another Autumn
Coming."
---
books:
These Are the
ravens (1935)
The Residual
Years (1944)
An Age Insurgent
(1959)
The hazards of
Holiness (1962)
A Canticle to the
Waterbirds (1968)
The Veritable
years (1978)
---
saluti fraterni,
Rinaldo.
============================================
At 08.23 10/09/97 -0700, John Maynard wrote:
>At 10:24
9/10/97 +0200, Francesco wrote:
>> In the
introduction of the italian edition of JK's Big Sur I have found
>>the name
of William Emerson who later became a dominican monk.
>> Does
anybody know something about him ?
>> Was he a
writer or a person of JK's entourage in the late 50's ?
>>
>>Ciao.
>>
>>Francesco
>>
>>dufour@ulisse.it
>>
>No, he was
part of the Bay Area scene that Kerouac & Co.plugged into. His
>name was
William Everson, but he was known for many years as Brother
>Antoninus. He later renounced his vows, rejoined the
world and became
>poet-in-residence
at UC Santa Cruz (if you can really call that "joining the
>world"). He's no longer with us, but I forget the
details.
>
>I'm sure
others on the list know a lot more about him than I do...
>
>Onward,
>
>John Maynard
>
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: A Love
Supreme by John Coltrane.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
A Love Supreme
I will do all I can to be worthy of Thee O
Lord.
It all has to do with it.
Thank you God.
Peace.
There is none other.
God is. It is so beautiful.
Thank you God. God is all.
Help us to resolve our fears and weaknesses.
Thank you God.
In You all things are possible.
We know. God made us so.
Keep your eye on God.
Gos is. He always was. He always will be.
No matter what...it is God.
He is gracious and merciful.
It is most important that I know Thee.
Words, sounds, speech, men, memory, thoughts,
fears and emotions-time-all related...
all made from one...all made in one.
Blessed be His name.
Thought waves-heat waves-all vibrations-
all paths lead to God. Thank you God.
His way...it is so lovely...it is gracious.
It is merciful-thank you God.
One thought can produce millions of
vibrations
and they all go back to
God...everything does.
Thank you God.
Have no fear...believe...thank you God.
The universe has many wonders. God is all.
His way...it is so wonderful.
Thoughts-deeds-vibrations, etc.
They all go back to God and He cleanses all.
He is gracious and merciful...thank you God.
Glory to God...God is so alive.
God is.
God loves.
May I be acceptable in Thy sight.
We are all one in His grace.
The fact that we do exist is acknowledgement
of Thee O Lord.
Thank you God.
God will wash away all our tears...
He always has...
He always will.
Seek Him everyday. In all way seek God
everyday.
Let us sing all songs to God.
To whom all praise is due...praise God.
No road is an easy one, but they all
go back to God.
With all we share God.
It is all with God.
It is all with Thee.
Obey the Lord.
Blessed is He.
We are from one thing...the will of God...
thank you God.
I have seen God-I have seen ungodly-
none can be greater-none can compare to
God.
Thank you God.
He will remake us...He always has and He
always will.
It is true-blessed be His name-thank you God.
God breathes through us so completely...
so gently we hardly feel it...yet,
it is our everything.
Thank you God.
ELATION-ELEGANCE-EXALTATION-
All from God.
Thank you God. Amen.
John Coltrane - December, 1964
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Out of
This Planet. Außer diesem Stern (bertolt brecht)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970910135820.00688d8c@maila.wm.edu>
References:
Außer diesem Stern
Außer diesem Stern, dachte ich, ist nichts
und er
Ist so verwüstet.
Er allein ist unsere Zuflucht und die
Sieht so aus.
-- BERTOLT BRECHT
Out of this
planet, I thought, there is not nothing, and it is so desolate.
It is our
shelter, and this
That is the way
it is.
Der Rauch
Das kleine Haus unter Bäumen am See.
Vom Dach steigt Rauch.
Fehlte er
Wie trostlos dann wären
Haus, Bäumen und See.
-- BERTOLT BRECHT
The small house
among to the trees on the lake.
From the roof
climbs the smoke.
If there is not
smoke
house, trees and
lake would be dismal.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
Berthold Brecht
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<9709142201.aa14683@mail.cruzio.com>
References:
Leon,
i'm sure yr
knowing of german language is the best,
yr translation helped to open my eyes,
(mine is only to
the very very lowest level, having some relatives emigrates in germany and
suisse, (others in Canada), but this isn't a matter that justify to translate
Bertolt Brecht.)
i've tempted to
react to brecht's poems as Zen Poetry
_koan_
of course, i'm
always have been a great admirer of brecht's theatre & poetry (i.e.
Beggar's Opera collaboration with Kurt Weill) despite his political choice,
brecht is a valuable man, his approach to chinese lit is laudable, in the early
70's i was an avid reader for brecht's works, but unlike the Beats i read
brecht in translation and a bit to following the german language,
now u are right,
that Stern is "Star" and not "Planet", the word
"au_er" is "ausser" meaning the _=ss as in
"Strasse", the word "verw|stet" is |=u: "u" umlau
in the poem Der
Rauch
the word
"Bdumen" the "d" is "a" umlau
the same for
"Bduame" and "wdren"
what i was
surprised was that the listserv has not recognized the german alphabet 'cuz
i've post correctly the character but tha lserver transform them in anonymous
character, if this happen to language with characters not english-like (i.e.
german, spanish,
french) i have surprised again. with italian the snag is smaller or
non-existent 'cuz the stressed character are easily transform as "a acute
or a grave" a', ... etc, if a chinese or japanese wish to post in his
native language there's impossible, i'm afraid,
the bertolt
brecht's post crossed in my mind as unconscious i apologies,
cari saluti a
tutti da
Rinaldo.
At 22.00 14/09/97
-0700, Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sunday,
September 14, 1997 4:47 AM
>
>> Ok I received
a backchanell challenge. What poetic license?
>Here is what
I believe a more literal translation of Der Rauch would be:
>
>The Smoke
>
>The small
house under tress by the lake
>>From roof
rises smoke
>He felt
>How bereft of
trust (untrustworthy) then became
>House, trees
and lake
>
>
> Original
German:
>
>> Der Rauch
>>
>> Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.
>> Vom Dach steigt Rauch.
>> Fehlte er
>> Wie trostlos dann wdren
>> Haus, Bdumen und See.
>> -- BERTOLT BRECHT
>>
>
>Rinaldo's
translation:
>
>>The small
house among to the trees on the lake.
>>From the
roof climbs the smoke.
>>If there
is not smoke
>>house,
trees and lake would be dismal.
>>.-
>>Under the
trees by the lake is not quite the same as among the trees on the
>lake.
>> There is
nothing that says "if there is not smoke" in the original
>> The
implication of untrustworthy is not quite the same as dismal.
>
>I do not
cherish making these corrections (?) and
I would be the first one
>to agree that
it may be trifling. If we don't need such nitpicking on the
>list, I will
gladly stop it. But,, here I go
correcting and I have left
>out " I
thought" from the first line of "Outside of this star" poem , and
>even
misspelled Brecht's name. I am no one to point fingers, but I do
>believe my
corrections are accurate, and a challenge is a challenge. I love
>all your
contributions to the list Rinaldo. Bless you.
>
>leon
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: 36th
anniversary on terra firma
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341DE443.3B99@midusa.net>
References:
=========================
Happy birthday to YOU!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY DAVID!
WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST.
signers:
Dr Ink
in the name
of
REVERSE ENTROPY ENGINE Ltd.
&
Duracell
in the name
of
THE TIME MACHINE Corporation
&
Rinaldo Rasa.
===========================
>Full Moon
tonight
>and
anniversary of my birth
>36 years
[...]
>david rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: A
Proletarian Writer.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341DE443.3B99@midusa.net>
References:
KEEp THE RED FlaG FLYIng
Only Charles Bukowski could do it.
Burroughs?
Kerouac?
No more!
BookList?
WE HAVE ONLY B
U K O W S K I!!!
Only Charles Bukowski could do it.
Workers! Save
The Workers!!!
Burroughs?
Kerouac?
No more!!!
ONLY BUKOWSKI!!!
Save The Factory!
ONLY BUKOWSKY FOR SALE!!!
(even if Bukowski
seems artaud,
or celine)
THIS IS A PROLETARIAN.
ONE OF US! SAVE
OUR LIFE!!!
Only Charles Bukowski could do it.
Rinaldo.
18th sep 1997
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: La Loca.
A Beat Poetess.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<341DE443.3B99@midusa.net>
References:
Why I choose Black Men for My Lovers by La Loca
Acid today
is trendy entertainment
but in 1967
Eating it was eucharistic
and made us fully visionary
My girlfriend and I used to get cranked up
and we'd land in
The Haight
and oh yeah
The Black Guys Knew Who We Were
But the white boys were stupid
I started out in San Fernando
My unmarried mother did not abort me
because Tijuana was unaffordable
They stuffed me in a crib of invisibility
I was bottle-fed germicides and aspirin
My nannies were cathode tubes
I reached adolescence, anyway
Thanks to Bandini and sprinklers
In 1967 I stepped through a windowpane
and I got real
I saw Mother Earth and Big Brother
and
I clipped my roots which chocked in the
concrete
of Sunset Boulevard
to go with my girlfriend
from Berkeley to San Francisco
hitchhiking
and we discovered
that Spades were groovy
and
White boys were mass-produced and
watered their lawns
artificially with long green hoses
in
West L.A.
There I was, in Avalon Ballroom
in vintage pink satin, buckskin and
patchouli
pioneering the sexual
revolution
I used to be the satyr's moll, half-woman
and in pink satin hung
loose about me
like an intention
I ate lysergic for breakfast, lunch and
dinner
I was a dead-end in the off-limits of
The Establishment
and morality was open to
interpretation
In my neighborhood, if you fucked around, you
were a whore
But I was an emigree, now
I watched the planeloads of white boys
fly
up from Hamilton High
They were the vanguard
of the Revolution
They stepped off the plane
in threadbare work shirts
with rolled-up sleeves
and a Shell Oil, a Bankamericar,
a mastercharge in their back
pocket
with their father's name on it
Planeloads of Revolutionaries
For matins, they quoted Marcuse and
Huey Newton
For vespers, they instructed young
girls from
San Fernando to
Fuck Everybody
To not comply, was fascist
I watched the planeloads of white boys
fly up from Hamilton High
All the boys from my high school were shipped
to
Vietnam
And I was in Berkeley, screwing little white
boys
who were remonstrating for peace
In bed, the pusillanimous hands of war
protestors
taught me Marxist philosophy:
Our neighborhoods are a life sentence
This was their balling stage and they
were politicians
I was an apparition with orifices
I knew they were insurance salesmen in
their
hearts
And they would all die of attacks
I went down on them anyway, because I
had
consciousness
Verified by my intake of acid
I was no peasant!
I went down on little white boys and
they filled my head with
Communism
They informed me that poor people
didn't have
money and were oppressed
Some people were Black and Chicano
Some women even had illegitimate
children
Meanwhile, my thighs were bloodthirsty
whelps
and could never get enough of anything
and those little communists were stingy
I was seventeen
and wanted to see the world
My flowering was chemical
I cut my teeth on promiscuity and
medicine
I stepped through more windowpanes
and it really got oracular
In 1968
One night
The shaman laid some holy shit on me and wow
I knew
in 1985
The world would still be white,
germicidially
white
That the ethos of affluence
was an indelible
white boy trait
like blue eyes
That Volkswagons would be traded in for
Ferraris
and would be driven with the same
snotty pluck that sniveled around
the doors of Fillmore, looking
cool
I knew those guys, I knew them when they had
posters of
Che Guevara over their bed
They all had poster of Che Guevara over
their bed
And I looked into Che's black eyes all
night while I lay in those beds,
ignored
Now these guys have names on doors on the
18th floor of
towers in Encino
They have ex-wives and dope
connections.
Even my girlfriend married a condo owner in
Van Nuys.
In proper white Marxist theoretician
nomenclature, I was
a tramp.
The rich girls were called
"liberated."
I was a female for San Fernando
and the San Francisco Black Men and I
had a lot in common
Eyes, for example
dilated
with the opacity of "fuck
you"
I saw them and they saw me
We didn't need an ophthalmologist to
get it on
We laid each other on a foundation of
visibility
and our fuck
was no hypothesis
Now that I was worldly
I wanted to correct
the nervous blue eyes who flew up from
Brentwood
to see Hendrix
but
when I stared into them
They always lost focus
and got lighter and lighter
and
No wonder Malcolm called them Devils.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Kerouac book covers
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970919093742.107118A-100000@kitts.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<3421DA4C.6843@pacbell.net>
Ciao My Friends,
i've under my
eyes the cover of "Sulla strada" dated april 1967 printed out ten
years after the american edition this is the italian translation of the Jack
Kerouac's great work (Fernanda Pivano translates at her best!), i bought the
book in 1969, and...
this edition has
for me a GREAT nostalgia feeling, remember of something like a scent of autumn
in an italy with great promises and new frontiers &... & now 30 year
later...
it's wonderful to
compare the today covers (1997 edition) and the 1967... if i understand right there is an interest to
collect the OTR cover (even italian?) i'm agree to post on the web or via email
the 1967 italian cover of the "On the Road"...
please, somebody
let me know,
cari saluti a
tutti,
Rinaldo.
* Jack Kerouac
always beats the Umberto Eco's Law of the poket book millenium catastrophe *
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Magda de
Cristofaro.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970919093742.107118A-100000@kitts.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<3421DA4C.6843@pacbell.net>
Cari beats,
excuse me,
in previous post
i've made a mistake asserting that Fernanda Pivano translated in italian
"On The Road", instead she wrote the foreword.
The italian
translator of Jack Kerouac's "On the Road" ("Sulla strada")
is Magda de Cristofaro (1959).
She translated a
lot of JK's works, i enumerate: "On the Road"(1957) -> "Sulla strada" (1959)
"The Dharma Bums" (1958) ->
"I Vagabondi del Dharma" (1961) "Doctor Sax" (1959) -> "Il dottor Sax"
(1968) "Visions of Gerard" (1963) ->
"Visioni di Gerard" (1980) "Desolation Angels" (1965) -> "Angeli di desolazione"
(1983)
thanks
Rinaldo. * not a qualified beat *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (fwd) La
Loca.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970919093742.107118A-100000@kitts.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<3421DA4C.6843@pacbell.net>
Return-Path:
<dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:46:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun1.lib.uci.edu> To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: La
Loca
> someone has
notice of the beat poetess La Loca,
Hey! Yeah, what happened to La Loca?
I remember a
reading of hers I attended in 1989 in Santa Monica that was totally fantastic. She had just published her collection for
city lights _Adventures on the Isle of
Adolescence_ (pocket poets series no 46) - and she read the entire thing, cover
to cover. When she got to the final
lines of 'The Mayan' a friggen riot practically broke out! People jumping around screaming, clapping
wildly, total mayhem...Fantastic stuff:
and from that day to this
although I've had to serve
in many prisons
I'm free
beneath the world
in love.
I still can hear
these lines! Is she still doing
readings?
-*-
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
scattered night italian reflexions.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709200006.BAA15702@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
"Wir in the
vicinity ay some unsound lookin cats. Some ur skinheids, some urnae. Some huv
Scottish, other English, or Belfast accents. One guy's goat s Skrewdriver
T-shirt oan, another's likesay wearin an ''Ulster is British'' toap. They start
singing a song aboot Bobby Sands, slaggin him off, likesay.
Ah dunno much
aboot politics, but Sands tae me, seemed a brave dude, likes, whae never killed
anybody. Likesay, it must take courage tae die like that, ken?"---Irvine
Welsh, Trainspotting.
TIMES OF CHANGE.
In the 1950's Italians
spurned the idea of
"fatherland"
and nationalism in favor of
new political formulas
...secessionist rumblings
from Umberto Bossi's anti-Rome,
anti-tax Northern League...
Dedicated
to
WALT WHITMAN
"Intense and
loving comradeship, the persomal and passionate attachment of man to man -
which, hard to define, underlines the lesson and ideals od the profound saviors
of every land and age, and which seems to promise, when thoroughly developed,
cultivated and recognised in manners and literature, the most substantial hope
and safety of the future of these Sates, will then be fully exspressed.
It is to the development, identification, and
general prevalence of that fervid comradeshio, (the adhesive love, at lest
rivaling the amative love hitherto possessing imaginative literature, if not
going beyond it) that I look for the counterbalance and offset od our
materialistic and vulgar American democracy, and for the spiritualization
thereof.
Many will say it
is a dream, and will be seen, running like a half-hid warp through all the
myriad audible and visible worldly interests of america, threads of manly
friendship, fond and loving, pure and sweet, strong and life-long, carried to
degrees hitherto unknown - not only giving tone to individual character, and
making it unprecedentedly emotional, muscular, heroic, and refined, but having
the deepest relations to general politics. I say democracy infers such loving
comradeship, as its most inevitable twin or counterpart, without which it will
be incomplete, in vain, and incapable of perpetuating itself."
Democratic Vistas, 1871
--- Allen
Ginsberg, THE FALL OF AMERICA
poems of these states
...same electric lightning south
follows this train
Apocalypse
prophesied-
the fall of america
signalled from
Heaven-
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: update
21sep97 BeatSupernova (Beat:The List)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970919093742.107118A-100000@kitts.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<3421DA4C.6843@pacbell.net>
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Beat SuperNova
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Willie Loco Alexander
Donald Allen[The
Evergreen Review, editor, poet, Grey Fox Press] Steve Allen[he played piano on
some of Kerouac's recordings] David Amram[helped Jack with some of his first jazz
poetry readings] Mary Beach[Bullettin From Nothing]
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
Wallace Berman[SF
avante garde artist]
Stephen Jesse
Bernstein[Poet, author, beat, suicide in 1992, Seattle WA USA]
Paul Blackburn {
1926 - 1971 } [contibutor to Black Mountain Review, nyu and the univ. of
wisconsin] Robin Blaser[poet, critic, associate of Duncan, Spicer] Richard
Brautigan[Change, novelist _Trout Fishing in America_] Bonnie Bremser[wife of
Ray]
Ray Bremser
Chandler
Brossard[New York]
Lenny
Bruce<img src="brucelen.gif" alt="Lenny
Bruce">[comic] Lord Buckley[comic]
Charles
Bukowski{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" William S.
Burroughs<img src="burrough.jpg" alt="William, when I first
met him in Texas, around 78--Patricia Elliott.">{ 5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug
1997 } "Bull Hubbard, Frank Carmody, Will Dennison, Old Bull Lee"
William S. Burroughs Jr.[_Kentucky Fried_] John Cage<img
src="cagejohn.gif" alt="John Cage while prepares Medicine
Drawings, 1991.">{ 5 sep 1912 - 12 aug 1992 }[Black Mountain School]
Edgar Cayce
Caleb Carr[Son of
Lucien _The Alienist_] Lucien Carr"Damion"
Paul Carroll
Louis R
Cartwright
Carolyn
Cassady"Camille"
Neal Cassady{ 8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 } "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" Norris
Church[wife of Norman Mailer]
Tom Clark[Paris
Review]
Andy Clausen
Leonard
Cohen[novelist _Beautiful Losers_, songwriter] Bruce Conner[filmaker]
Gregory
Corso<img src="corsogre.gif" alt="Gregory Corso in Venice,
S.Marco Square">"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" Robert
Creeley[Black Mountain School, poet] Henry Cru<img
src="cruhenry.gif" alt="Henry Cru, 1960.">"Remi
Boncoeur" Jay deFeo[San Francisco Painter, _The Rose_] Diane
DiPrima<img src="diprimad.gif" alt="Diane Di Prima,
1965.">[Floating Bear, poetess,_Memoirs of a Beatnik_] John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Edward Dorn[Black
Mountain School]
Robert
Duncan[Black Mountain School, Experimental Review, SF poet, associate, Spicer, Blazer]
"Geoffrey Donald" Bob Dylan
Larry
Eigner[Black Mountain School]
Kenward
Elmslie[Z]
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus){ 1912 - 4 apr 1996}[Poet, Monk]{At UC Santa Cruz he set up
an old hand press and produced wonderful broadsides and books. My brother inlaw
worked with him, as a student. The press sits waiting for new hands to work the
ink, set the letters,stamp words into handmade paper...--Gary Mex Glazner} Mary
Fabilli[was married with William Everson] Larry Fagin[Adventures in Poetry]
Richard
Farina[novelist _Been Down So Long_, songwriter] Lawrence Ferlinghetti<img
src="ferling.gif" alt="Lawrence Ferlinghetti">[San
Francisco Poetry Reinassance] "Lorenzo Monsanto, Larry O'Hara, Danny
Richman" Tom Field[Spicer Circle, JK's favorite painter] "Larry
Meadows" Charles Foster
Robert
Frank[filmaker]
James
Grauerholz<img src="grauerhl.jpg" alt="James
Grauerholz">[Burroughs aid and heir] Allen Ginsberg<img
src="ginsberg.jpg" alt="Allen Ginsberg">{ 3 Jun 1926 - 5
Apr 1997 } "Irwing Garden, Adam Moorad, Alvah Goldbook, Leon Levinsky,
Carlo Marx" John Giorno
Paul
Goodman[psycologist, sociologist, _Growing Up Absurd_] Robert Gover
Morris Graves
Brion Gysin
Howard Hart[jazz
drummer, poet]
Dave
Hazelwood[printer of chapbooks , Auerhahn Press] Wally Hedrick[Gallery Six,
husband of Jay DeFeo] Abbie Hoffman<img src="abbieh.gif"
alt="Abbie Hoffman, 1970">[Youth International Party] John Clellon
Holmes[novelist, _Go_]
Herbert
Huncke[guru to Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs, hustler, _Guilty of
Everything_] William Inge
Robinson Jeffers
Ted Joans[Jazz
Poetry]
Joyce
Johnson[wife to JK]
Lenore
Kandel[poetess, _The Love Book_ East/West
house, "Ramona Schwartz"] Bob Kaufman{ 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
John Kelly[Beatitude]
Robert Kelly
Jack
Kerouac<img src="kerouac.gif" alt="Jack Kerouac,
1966">{ 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz, Leo Percepied,
Ray Smith, Jack, Peter Martin, Sal Paradise" Jan Kerouac[_Baby Driver_]
Ken
Kesey[novelist, psychedelic revolutionary] Franz Kline
Seymour Krim[New
York]
Paul
Krassner[Realist, satirist]
Art Kunkin[Freep]
Tuli
Kupferberg[Birth, The Fugs]
Joanne
Kyger[poetess, wife (briefly) G. Snyder, girlfriend, Lew Welch, East/West
house] La Loca[poetess]{I remember a reading of hers I attended in 1989 in
Santa Monica that was totally fantastic.
She had just published her collection for city lights _Adventures on the
Isle of Adolescence_ (pocket poets series no 46) - and she read the entire
thing, cover to cover. When she got to
the final lines of 'The Mayan' a friggen riot practically broke out! People jumping around screaming, clapping
wildly, total mayhem...Fantastic stuff--David Schwarm} Philip
Lamantia[surrealist poet]
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
James Laughlin
Denise
Levertov[contibutor to Black Mountain Review] Timothy Leary<img
src="learytim.gif" alt="Timothy Leary, 1985">[chemical
revolutionary] Lawrence Lipton[The Holy Barbarians]
Ron
Loewinsohn[Change]
Gerald
Locklin[poet, _The Long Beach Freeway_] Philomene Long
Malcom
Lowry[novelist, Under the Volcano] Bill MacNeill[Painter, Spicer Circle]
Norman
Mailer"Harvey Marker"
Gerard Malanga
Edward Marshall
Peter Martin
Lewis McAdams
Joanna
McClure<img src="mcclurej.gif" alt ="Joanna
McClure">[wife to Michael, poetess] Michael McClure<img
src="mcclurem.gif" alt="Michael McClure">[Journal for
the Protection of All Beings, poet] "Pat McLear" Don McNeill[hippie
journalist]
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline[SF
LA NY poet]
Henry Miller{ 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } John Montgomery
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao[City Light Bookstore fixture] Ken Nordine
Harold Norse
Frank
O'Hara[poet, _Hotel Wembley Poems_] David Ohle<img src="ohledav.gif"
alt ="David Ohle in Lousiana">[Burroughs Circle, _Mortified Man_
_Cows are freaky when they look at you_] Charles Olson{ 27 dic 1910 - 10 jan
1970 }[Black Mountain School] Peter Orlovsky<img src="orlovsky.gif"
alt="Peter Orlovsky, 1961.">[wife to Allen Ginsberg] "George,
Simon Darlovsky" Kenneth Patchen
Thomas
Parkinson[Ark, UC Berkeley Prof, Casebook on the Beat] Claude Pelieu[Bulletin
From Nothing]
Nancy
Peters[partner with L. Ferlinghetti in City Lights, married to P. Lamantia]
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles
Plymell<img src="plymellc.jpg" alt="Charles
Plymell">[North Beach, hobohemian poet, novelist]{Leaving K.C. Mo. past
Independence past Liberty Charlie Plymell's memories of K.C. renewed-- Allen
Ginsberg} Dan Propper
Lou Reed
Kenneth Rexroth{
22 dic 1905 - 1982 }[Berkeley Reinassance, San Francisco Reinassance, Six
Gallery reading] "Reinhold Cacoethes" Steve Richmond[introduction for
Bukowsky] Frank Rios
Theodore Roethke
Hugh Romney[Wavey
Gravey]
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders<img
src="sanderse.gif" alt="Ed Sanders">[Peace Eye
Bookstore, The Fugs] Mark Schorer[UC Berkeley Prof, critic]
Tony Scibella
Hubert Jr.
Selby[NY, LA Novelist]
Patti Smith
Gary Snyder[Poet,
Reed College group] "Japhy Ryder, Jarry Wagner, Gary Snyder" Carl
Solomon[_with you in Rocklin_, friend Ginsberg's] Terry Southern[novelist,
_Candy_]
Jack Spicer[poet,
associate of Duncan, Blazer] Hunter Stockton Thompson
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
John Thomas
Mark Tobey
Alexander
Trocchi[Living Theatre]
Giuseppe Ungaretti[Circle]
William T.
Vollmann<img src="vollmann.gif" alt="William T.
Vollmann">[_Thirteen Stories and Thirteen Epitaphs, Whores for Gloria,
You Bright and Risen Angels, The Atlas_Yesterday's Crash_] Tom
Waits[songwriter, Foreign Affairs]
Anne Waldman[Naropa
Institute, St. Mark's Poetry Project, New York] Lewis Warsh
Alan W.
Watts[_Beat Zen, Square Zen_] "Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" Lew Welch
(Lewis Barret Welch){ 16 aug 1926 - 23 may 1971 }[_Ring of Bone_, Reed College
Group, East/West House] "Dave Wain" Philip Whalen[Poet, Reed College
Group] "Warren Coughlin, Ben Fagan" John Wieners[Black Mountain
School]
Jonathan Williams
William Carlos
Williams{ 17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963 } Clay Wilson
Ruth
Witt-Diamant[San Francisco's Poetry Center] James Wright[Minnesota]
Louis
Zukofsky[Circle]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Janine
Pommy Vega.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199709200006.BAA15702@ns.ulisse.it>
References:
Which Side Are
You On? by Janine Pommy Vega
Where does my
anger come from
at the laziness, the prosaic?
How many times
will you enter a room
and leave it vacant: in and out,
in and out,
visiting a temple of possibility and never leave a gift on the altar?
Come down to the
river of your own soul, we are
excavating
here, the yellow
helmets you see are so many suns on the horizon, going down and coming up in no
particular time sequence or order.
When one flower
opens, Kabir says,
ordinarily
dozens open. I'm
digressing.
Every time you
visit yourself without
respect, you lose. Without love,
Also.
Read the coins
you've thrown down into the dirt, they spell integrity. You recall those
early moments in
your young life
when you sang. And we were
witnesses-- if not then, now. We can
see you
outside the
ordinary, grab onto a miracle and understand it was no more you than the
wind.
Oh, so that's it,
finally:
No more you or me
than that mountain
there. And no mountain either.
Which side are you on?
Eastern
Correctional Facility, Napanock, NY, June 6,1996 To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Mime
format Re: october's Cover... re:patriots
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<342504E5.D0524C08@mail.telepac.pt>
References:
<BEAT-L%1997091612045391@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
At 11.28 21/09/97
+0000,
DuarteMoniz
<DuarteMoniz@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote:
>Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
>> As most
of you on the list have noticed, mime format and photographs
>> do
>> not
travel well on Beat-l. It might be
better to mount such files on
>> a
>> web page
and provide listmembers with the url so t hat they can
>> download
>> them to
their hard drives and read them with their browers.
>
>
>Can't agree
with you. It may desencourage people to send photos and
>photos are
great to see and rest awhile from all the texts. It was very
>nice to see
some of you some time back.I also appreciate the posts with
>full articles
that appear in the US media concerning the beats. It's the
>
>only way we
(not residents in the USA) can have access to those prints.
>I am enjoying
very much being with you all, althought
you didn't notice
>my presence
up until now.
>
>Duarte Moniz
>Portugal
>
Duarte Moniz,
I agree totally
with, you, the pics travel fine attached in email, and i you fon't own a www space it's impossible to post
pictures, another problem was the native characters (as noted by the chinese
friend some post ago, and by myself again) that's it would be nice to be posted
(i.e. eastern coutry, or far eastern country,...), *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
please who's the
person in charge of
the "cover" project?
may he blackchanell
to me, i'm working
on the JK it 1967 poket
cover of "Sulla Strada" (OTR)
also i've the cover of
1980 JK "On the Road"
i dunno if it's a rarity
someone let me know if i
can start to scan...
**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**
at the moment i
italy the word "patriot" is referred to the people like
"venetian patriots" who wish the secessionism from the italy, and
have their symbol in the bell tower in S.Marco Square in Venice, the
"patriots" want that Venetian Lands becom independent from the rest
of Italy (independent movement),
***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-***-
saluti cari,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beat
images identity
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970923112226.0069d710@pop.pipeline.com>
References:
friends,
i've post on the
web two photos of beats that i can't recognize the site is
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatpic.htm
someone has a
suggestion?
thanks for the
help,
cari saluti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
[nameless beatnicks] Re: Imploding Text ... something fun yet serious
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34294A0F.5F48@midusa.net>
References:
david,
call me wrong but
i've a feel with the
missing beat,
noname beats,
cari saluti,
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Robert
De Niro, the beat.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: <34294A0F.5F48@midusa.net>
References:
>From:
neato@pipeline.com
>neato says:
>robert
deniro- father of the actor robert deniro..he was a street poet and
>artist..his
art is included in some of the poetry journals of the
>time...kerouac
mentions him in one of his books
friends, i've the
same interest in this subjest, it's possible to track robert deniro thru jack
kerouac works? as his true name or pseudonym. anyone has notice of de niro's
beat father?
cari saluti da
rinaldo.
-*-
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Imploding Text ... something fun yet serious
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<342C3AA4.6C4A@midusa.net>
References:
<970925222132_1324674530@emout20.mail.aol.com>
"Several
times I went to San Fran with my gun and when a queer approached me in a bar
john I took out the gun and said, 'Eh? Eh? What's that you say?' He bolted.
I've never understood why I did that; I knew queers all over the country. It
was just the loneliness of San Francisco and the fact that I had a gun. I had
to show it to someone." ---Jack Kerouac, "On the Road".
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Whereabouts
of Gregory Corso
Cc:
interzona@tmn.it
Bcc:
EASTWIND@EROLS.COM
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3401A258.222B@erols.com>
References:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970823113406.40912B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
At 10.18 25/08/97
-0500, PATRICK <EASTWIND@EROLS.COM>
wrote:
>Anyone know
where Gregory Corso is living today?? Or any info on his
>current
activity?
>
>Thanking you
now ...
>
>Patrick
>eastwind@erols.com
>
Patrick &
beat friends,
an unknown friend
emailed me today the following message stated that Gregory Corso was in Italy
during june 1997.
cari saluti,
Rinaldo.
*-*-*-*-*-*-
start of the addenda message *-*-*-*-*-*-*
>>Return-Path:
<interzona@tmn.it>
>>From:
interzona@tmn.it (Taro)
>>To:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
>>Subject:
Beat...
>>Date:
Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:58:11 +0200
>>X-MSMail-Priority:
Normal
>>
>>Beh...di
Mestre allora?...e c'eri quella serata a Conegliano
>>(ehm...14
e 15 Giungo 1997)
>>con la
Pivano e Gregory Corso?
>>
>>Taro
>>interzona@tmn.it
*-*-*-*-*-*- end
of the addenda message *-*-*-*-*-* To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (fwd)
photo id
Cc:
neato@pipeline.com
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<342C3AA4.6C4A@midusa.net>
References:
<970925222132_1324674530@emout20.mail.aol.com>
Return-Path:
<neato@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep
1997 21:43:46 +0000
From: neato
<neato@pipeline.com>
To: rasa@gpnet.it
Subject: photo id
X-URL:
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beatspic.htm
neato says:
#2 is (l-r)
burroughs, peter orlovsky, corso and ginsberg
#1 are probably
some nameless beatnicks at washington square park..photo is probably by fred
mcdarrah
cheers
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Bob
Dylan, Standing In The Doorway.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.96.970927113038.25278B-100000@poconos.net>
References:
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970927115750.5817A-100000@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Standing In The
Doorway by Bob Dylan
I'm a-walkin'
through the summer nights The jukebox playing low
Yesterday
everything was goin' too fast Today it's moving too slow
I got no place
left to turn
I got nothing
left to burn
Don't know if I
saw you, If I would kiss you or kill you It probably wouldn't matter to you
anyhow You left me standin' in the doorway cryin' I got nothing to go back to
now
The light in this
place is so bad
Makin' me sick in
the head
All the laughter
is just makin' me sad
The stars have
turned cherry red
I'm strummin' on
my gay guitar
Smokin' a cheap
cigar
The ghost of our
old love has not gone away Don't look [it] like it will any time soon You left
me standin' in the doorway cryin' Under the midnight moon
Maybe they'll get
me, and maybe they won't But not tonight and it won't be here
There are things
I could say but I don't I know the mercy of God must be near
I've been ridin'
the midnight train
Got ice water in
my vein
I would be crazy
if I took you back
It would go up
against every rule
You left me
standin' in the doorway cryin' Sufferin' like a fool
When the last
rays of daylight go down
[Buddy?] you'll
roam no more
I can hear the
church bells ringin' in the yard I wonder who they're ringin' for?
I know I can't
win
But my heart just
won't give in
Last night I
danced with a stranger
But she just
reminded me you were the one You left me standin' in the doorway cryin' In the
dark land of the sun
I'll eat when I'm
hungry, drink when I'm dry And live my life on the square
And even if the
flesh falls off of my face I know someone will be there to care
It always meaned
so much
Even the softest
touch
I see nothin' to
be gained by any explanation There's no words that need to be said
You left me standin'
in the doorway cryin' Blues wrapped around my head
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: STANDING
ON THE HIGHWAY 1962( was Re: Bob Dylan, Standing In The Doorway)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970927185641.006b3f5c@maila.wm.edu>
References:
STANDING ON THE HIGHWAY Words
and Music by Bob Dylan
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to bum a ride, tryin' to
bum a ride,
Tryin' to bum a ride.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to bum a ride, tryin' to
bum a ride,
Tryin' to bum a ride.
Nobody seem to know me,
Everybody pass me by.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to hold up, tryin' to
hold up,
Tryin to hold up and be brave.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to hold up, tryin to hold
up and be brave.
One roads goin' to the bright
lights,
The others goin' down to my
grave.
Well, I'm lookin' down at two
card,
They seem to be handmade.
Well, I'm lookin' down at two card,
They seem to be handmade.
One looks like it's the ace of
diamonds,
The other looks like it is the
ace of spades.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Watchin' my life roll by.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Watchin' my life roll by.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to bum a ride.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Wonderin' where everybody went,
wonderin' where everybody
went,
Wonderin' where everybody went.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Wonderin' where everybody went,
wonderin' where everybody
went,
Wonderin' where everybody went.
Please mister, pick me up,
I swear I ain't gonna kill
nobody's kids.
I wonder if my good gal,
I wonder if she knows I'm here,
Nobody else seems to know I'm
here.
I wonder if my good gal,
I wonder if she knows I'm here,
Nobody else seems to know I'm
here.
If she knows I'm here, Lawd,
I wonder if she said a prayer.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Bob
Dylan, Standing In The Doorway.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970927185641.006b3f5c@maila.wm.edu>
References:
At 18.56 27/09/97
-0400, Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU> wrote:
>Great post
Rinaldo. what album is this from?
>
>Jon
>
>At 12:22 AM
9/28/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>Standing
In The Doorway by Bob Dylan
Jon,
the album
is:[23sep97]Time Out Of Mind
---
songs of
yesterday Bologna concert at the Pope presence 27th sep 97 i saw the event
televised:
(start of the performance)
1)Knockin'at the
haven's door, 2)Hard rain's gonna fall
(hanshake with the Pope JPII)
3)Forever young
(end of the performance)
---
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: calandro
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970927185641.006b3f5c@maila.wm.edu>
References:
http://www.webcity.it/aldorock/index.html
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: If We
Take by Charles Bukowski.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.32.19970927185641.006b3f5c@maila.wm.edu>
References:
--from the poem,
" If We Take" by Charles
Bukowski
but they've left
us a bit of music
and a spiked show
in the corner,
a jigger of
scotch, a blue necktie,
a small volume of
poems by rimbuaud,
a horse running
as if the devil
were twisting his
tail
over bluegrass
and screaming,
and then,
love again
like a streetcar
turning the corner
on time,
the city waiting,
the wine and the
flowers,
the water walking
across the lake
and summer and
winter
and summer and
summer
and winter again
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Trying
To Get To Heaven Re: Bob Dylan, Standing In The Doorway.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970929111630.15268C-100000@lucia.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<342D9652.6ADF@pacbell.net>
At 11.17 29/09/97
-0700, Jorgiana S Jake wrote:
>On Sat, 27
Sep 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
>> Isn't
Dylan opening for the Pope today. Not
certain I can get my head
>> around
that concept. Who would have thunk it,
back in '63.
>>
>> J.
Stauffer
>
>
>The local
paper had a GREAT shot of Dylan in a big white cowboy hat
>playing guitar
and singing with Pope JP sitting in the background
>grinning
beatifically! Ironic.
>
>Jorgiana>
>
Hello amici beat,
Bob Dylan's great
& his positive attitude wasn't submissive,
after two songs a
hanshake with Pope and after a song to finish,
i dunno why u see
grinning the Pope JPII, he's an OLD Man, also Bob IS an Old Man but both are
FOREVER YOUNG.
---
Trying To Get To
Heaven by Bob Dylan (1997)
The air is
getting hotter, there's a rumblin' in the skies I've been wading through the
high muddy water With the heat risin' in my eyes
Every day your
memory grows dimmer
It doesn't haunt
me like it did before
I've been walking
through the middle of nowhere Tryin' to get to heaven before they close the
door
When I was in
Missouri they would not let me be I had to leave there in a hurry
I only saw what
they let me see
You broke a heart
that loved you
Now you can seal
up the book and not write anymore I've been walkin' that lonesome valley
Tryin' to get to
heaven before they close the door
People on the
platforms, waitin' for the trains I can hear their hearts a-beatin'
Like pendulums
swinging on their chains When you think that you lost everything You find out
you can always lose a little more I'm just goin' down the road feeling bad
Tryin' to get to heaven before they close the door
I'm goin' down
the river, down to New Orleans They tell me everything is gonna be all right
But I don't know what all right even means I was ridin' in a buggy with Miss
Mary Jane Miss Mary Jane got a house in Baltimore I've been all around the
world, boys
And I'm tryin' to
get to heaven before they close the door
Gonna sleep down
in the parlor and relive my dreams I close my eyes and I wonder
If everything is
as hollow as it seems
Some trains don't
pull no gamblers
No midnight
ramblers, like they did before I've been to sugar town, I shook the sugar down
Now I'm tryin' to get to heaven before they close the door
---
Cari saluti per
tutti da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Alienist. Re: Beat List
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997092912293733@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
<Message of Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:20:37 -0500 from <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>
At 12.26 29/09/97
EDT, Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> wrote:
>Now you can
be a Beat through heredity? I have my
doubts that "Beatness" is i
>n the genes
or the jeans (levi or otherwise). Caleb
Carr can't be considered a
> Beat, under
any circumstances, in my opinion. I'm
sure he doesn't consider hi
>mself a beat
-- far from it.
>
>
hello friends,
i'm reading _The
Alienist_ written by Caleb Carr.
the book is
wonderfull engaging!
saluti,
rinaldo * not a competent
beat *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The Sun
Wields Mercy: Bukowski a poet.
Cc:
mmichael@ix.netcom.com
Bcc:
slc@acquiesce.org
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970929111630.15268C-100000@lucia.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<342D9652.6ADF@pacbell.net>
"Sarah
Christians" <slc@acquiesce.org> wrote:
"I don't
know if it's my place to jump in here, since I'm not nearly as well versed in
Burkowski as I am in Kerouac, but I think that we should leave it up to more
history and literary criticism to decide whether or not Burkowski is/was
Beat. I mean, "Love is a Dog From
Hell" just doesn't sound beat. It's
like, along with being Beat ("and down in the world") they considered
themselves, 'beatific.' Now, the root of
all these words still goes back to 'beautiful' and Burkowski wasn't
beautiful. His words were harsh, albeit
real and he didn't much romanticize what he saw. When considering the poetry of Ginsberg, for
example, or even of Neal Cassady, the words are harsh, but they are attempting
to beautify what they see. I do not
propose that Burkowski had no vision, I just assert that his style is somewhat
apart from what can be termed conventionally as 'Beat.'"
Sarah
==========================================================================
amici beat,
i think bukowsky
has pity on the humain pain, the poet writes:
---
has this happened before? is history
a circle that chatches itaself by the tail,
a dream, a nightmare,
a general's dream, a president's dream,
a dictator's dream...
can't we awaken?
or are the forces of life greater than we?
can't we awaken? must we forever,
dear friends, die in our sleep?
---
or
---
I keep practicing death
and as the worms writhe
in agony of waiting
I might as well have another
drink, and I am thinking
I am there:
and I cross my legs
in the patio of
some Mexico City hotel
in 1997
---
saluti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Kerouac
und Heidegger.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970929111630.15268C-100000@lucia.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<342D9652.6ADF@pacbell.net>
dear friends,
in his latest
writing "after me the deluge" was 1969 (?) Jack Kerouac affirmed that
Heidegger's thought is a gem.
"Why does
exist the things instead of nothing?" and Jack
Keroauc
thought about the existence an admiring look
at
Martin Heidegger.
which God does the atheist beg?
God names are always hopeless
what's the matter?
a stork! a
stork!
a knot of people
nose around the
sky!
a stork flew in the autumn sky
---
Rinaldo.
1th oct 97
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Campo Ai
Frari, Venezia.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970929111630.15268C-100000@lucia.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<342D9652.6ADF@pacbell.net>
GOD BLESS
THE CHEER
FUL GIVER
I HAVE NO
OTHER INC
OME I WIS
H YOU GOO
D LUCK TH
ANK YOU
I need money
to be
an artist
(not
in
conjunction
with
la biennale arte)
thursday morning fog
the
fox
knows many things
she (the fox) told
WATER FOR DOGS!
i
PHONED HIM
last night
but he (the dog) was
DRUNK
CLUMSY DOG!
i need money
i need money
to be but he was drunk.
---
Rinaldo
2th oct 97
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
early Bukowski.
Cc:
morpheous@boone.net
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A41.3.96.970929111630.15268C-100000@lucia.u.arizona.edu>
References:
<342D9652.6ADF@pacbell.net>
Return-Path:
<morpheous@boone.net>
From:
"Matthew Murray" <morpheous@boone.net> To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
early Bukowski.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct
1997 22:39:53 -0400
Matthew Murray
writes:
The word
"beat" as coined by Jack can be looked at not so much as a time or
situation dependent literary genre, but an artistic and spiritual attitude.
"Beat"
aka cashed, worn out, tired, not so much the hipster thing. If Charles Bukowski was not "beat"
then I don't know who is, but Bukowski himself sneered at being classified with
those folks. He was indifferent when he
met Bill Burroughs, and always sighed when young hipsters would tell him how
much they dug his "shit,man" within the context of beat authoring.
The bottom line
is that these folks were both damn good writers and they both strained the hell
out of their livers.
-*-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Friendly
Advice to a Lot of Young Men (Re: bukowski as beat)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<19971003.091401.3582.0.kokupokit@juno.com>
References:
<342D9652.6ADF@pacbell.net>
<3.0.1.32.19971003062249.0071a934@pop.gpnet.it>
Friendly Advice
to a Lot of Young Men by Charles
Bukowski
Go to Tibet.
Ride a camel.
Read the bible.
Dye your shoes
blue.
Grow a beard.
Circle the world
in paper canoe.
Subscribe to The
Saturday Evening Post.
Chew on the left
side of your mouth only.
Marry a woman with
one leg and shave with a
straight razor.
And carve your
name in her arm.
Brush your teeth
with gasoline.
Sleep all day and
climb trees at night.
Be a monk and
drink buckshot and beer.
Hold your head
under water and play violin.
Do a belly dance
before pink candles.
Kill your dog.
Run for Mayor.
Live in a barrel.
Break your head
with a hatchet.
Plant tulips in
the rain.
but don't write
poetry.
---written by
henry charles bukowski---
not God but for
sure a poetry angel---if he told to us ---i'm not a beat---or i'm not a
poet---i'm Hunger--- like Knut Hamsun---saluti a tutti da rinaldo---
At 10.12 03/10/97
EDT, Bob Lewis
<kokupokit@JUNO.COM> wrote:
>ahhh, the old
question of is bukowski beat.
>here's my
humble opinion.
>
>i think
writers can have many "beat" characteristics. i bet if we put all
>275 heads
together on this list, we can name at least 25 writers who fit
>the
description of "beat".
[snippin' for
brevity]
>bob
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Davide's
Bar.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199710041756340098@classic.msn.com> <3437BCBA.55F3@midusa.net>
<3437BDBB.7934@midusa.net>
RORSCHA
CH BLOT
S
a paint
ing a w
all a s
hip by
the rai
lroad a
n ice-c
ream a
young m
other g
reen ve
netian
hills g
reen so
nice
SUNDAY
OCTOBER
1997 ru
sty tra
ck by t
he rail
road st
ation t
he cart
on wing
s on a
table a
t david
e's bar
AND THE SILENCE
RETURNS.
---
rinaldo
6th oct 97To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Kinsey
and the beats in 1945.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199710041756340098@classic.msn.com> <3437BCBA.55F3@midusa.net>
<3437BDBB.7934@midusa.net>
"All kinds
of evil plans are hatched in Ritzy's Bar - you can sense it in the air - and
all kinds of mad sexual routines are initiated to go with them. The safecracker
proposes not only a certain loft on the 14th Street to the hoodlum, but that
they sleep together. Kinsey spent a lot of time in Ritzy's Bar, intervieweing
some of the boys; I was there the night his assistant came, in 1945. Hassel and
Carlo were interviewed."---Jack Kerouac "On the Road" p.2,5.
friends, it seems
that Allen Ginsberg and Herbert Huncke were interviewed by a Kinsey assistant,
there is a notice in the Kinsey's report about such famous interviewed?
thanks a lot,
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beat
Supernova update 6th oct 1997
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199710041756340098@classic.msn.com> <3437BCBA.55F3@midusa.net>
<3437BDBB.7934@midusa.net>
At 13.21 07/10/97
GMT, ipl1@columbia.edu wrote:
>You have
Joyce Johnson listed as JK's wife. She
was never his wife.
>She was his
girlfriend during 1957/58.
>
>
>On 6 Oct 1997
08:19:58 GMT, you wrote:
>
>>********
Beat Supernova update 6th oct 1997 ********
>>****************************************************
>>==Joyce
Johnson [wife to JK]
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: re:
Caleb Carr
Cc:
Bcc:
vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199710041756340098@classic.msn.com> <3437BCBA.55F3@midusa.net>
<3437BDBB.7934@midusa.net>
>From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
>Subject: Caleb Carr
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
>For anyone
interested, there's an interesting interview with Caleb Carr
>at the Salon
website. Here's where to go:
>http://www.salonmagazine.com/books/int/
>
>Adrien
>
thanks adrien,
just ended to
read _The Alienist_ by Caleb Carr, and the book is fine well written. i was
surprised 'cuz of Caleb Carr don't referred to his beat father Lucien Carr in
the thanks, then i visit the web site (u mentioned) and it's very instructive.
The italian
translation of _The Alienist_ (L'Alienista,1995) has on the cover an evocative
photo by Alfred
Stieglitz, titled "The Street", from the Stieglitz's book titled
Camera Work (july 1903), great!, ciao da rinaldo.
from the above
mentioned web site :
"Carr's
father, Lucien Carr, was a seminal figure in the early years of the Beats.
While he wasn't a writer himself, he introduced Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg
and William S. Burroughs to each other, and he remained friends with all three
until their deaths. Lucien Carr was a kind of dark star in the Beat firmament.
In 1944, he murdered a man named David Kammerer, who was so infatuated with
Carr that he followed him to New York from their hometown of St. Louis. The
details of that night are unclear (Kammerer may have tried to kiss Carr). But
Carr later rolled the dead man into the Hudson River and, with Kerouac's help,
hid the man's eyeglasses and the murder weapon. Kerouac was imprisoned for
several days as an accomplice; Carr was out after two years, having convinced
the court that he was fighting off an unwanted homosexual advance." -*-
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
"The Long Beach Freeway"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199710041756340098@classic.msn.com> <3437BCBA.55F3@midusa.net>
<3437BDBB.7934@midusa.net>
The Long Beach Freeway by Gerald Locklin
(after MacLeish)
And here upon this brazen hill
this hill above the aimless lights
I watch the always going home
the going west into the night
the going towards two-bedroom flats
the going toward the blinding creen
the alcohol the marriage debts
the insane hours in between
the painful clock the cereal
the always sweating late to work
the water cooler pressured meal
the longing for the lonely dark
the lonely driving through the hills
the rock and roll the news the sports
the somnolence of lower speeds
the solitary cigarettes
and here upon a brazen hill
narcotic with the speed of light
I watch the always going home
the going west into the night
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
u2haikuEEE-E! THERE IS A MOUSE IN THE KITCHEN!!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199710041756340098@classic.msn.com> <3437BCBA.55F3@midusa.net>
<3437BDBB.7934@midusa.net>
1th
lift the
ring to
can edge
2th
pull UP
ring
IT WAS
GREAT,
PERFEC
T MISS
ION AC
COMPLI
SHED.
GREAT.
PERF
-
rinaldo
9 oct 97To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Leonard
Cohen (Re: Gary Snyder Reading)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<343DB417.123B@pacbell.net>
References:
James Stauffer
says:
>I just
returned from hearing Snyder read extensively from "Mountains and
>Rivers"
at Stanford. GS was in great form as a
reader, a tribute to the
>age fighting
effects of Buddhist mediation and/or damn good genes.
>
>The
Humanities Center at Stanford is doing a year long focus on MRWE
>from a number
of perspectives. Interested scholars
might check out
>their web
site http://shc.stanford.edu.
>
>J. Stauffer
>
amici,
i've read an
article concerned Leonard Cohen (now zen monk Leonard C.) living in the Rinzai
Zen Buddhism Center at Mt. Baldy L.A., it's the same place attended by gary
snyder?
a week ago i
noted a book written about an interviewed Gary Snyder, the book is translated
in italian by a the "Abele Circle" a catholic group devoted to
pacifism, sorry i cant' afford to get thecheapbook'cuz damnmoney!i have
n't--cari saluti a tutti da rinaldo.
LITTLE WING by Neal Young
All her friends call her Litlle Wing
But the flies rings around them all
She comes to town when the children sing
And leaves them feathers if they fall.
She leaves her feathers if they fall.
Little Wing, don't fly away
When the summer turns to fall
Don't you know some people say
The winter is the best time of them all
Winter is the best of all.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Bentz,
Dylan, Pound and an ancient bookstore in Venice.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<343ECB15.D9AA6C95@scsn.net>
References:
<199710100215.TAA09910@netcom18.netcom.com>
amici,
ezra pound told
us that the centre of the universe is a point at Venice where Rio San Trovaso
meets the Canale della Giudecca. by this place there's a "squero", a
wooden building where an artisan constructs the gondolas.
i passing a lot
of time near this Rio and near the squero there's a mooring stake & during
the 70's until early '80s attached at the stake was a Popeye puppet, pretty big
& evident. always amazed, i think ezra pound had a smile seeing this
irreverent venetian...
however the
center of the universe doesn't clash the centre of venice. this centre was
discovered by a bookseller in his own shop, the center of venice was marked by
an ancient column and it's between the Rialto Bridge & S. Marco Square. the
bookseller hid the column 'cuz annoyed by tourists, now a friend of mine told
me that the young son of the bookseller has removed the voile. the bookstore is
the anciest bookstore in venice and named "Tarantola" at Campo S.
Luca...
buona domenica e
cari saluti a tutti,
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: We Would
Be Two Men.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<343ECB15.D9AA6C95@scsn.net>
References:
<199710100215.TAA09910@netcom18.netcom.com>
We Would Be Two
Men by John Wieners
Lost in his arms
for two days,
I find my secret
passions rewarded;
melting, blended as
before
receiving kisses
as from a King of the Black Sea, no-one able to compete with his necessity.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: I WALK
UNDER THE DISTANT STARS by John Wieners
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<343ECB15.D9AA6C95@scsn.net>
References:
<199710100215.TAA09910@netcom18.netcom.com>
I WALK UNDER THE DISTANT STARS by John Wieners
I walk
under the distant stars
as I did when a child with my brother; as
I did
with Wallace on Grant Street in those
long, cool
San
Francisco nights, that seemed
to have no edges --
only avenues
of columns and evergreens,
without walls.
I look up and see the spaces
between stars
and think of the mists and miles across
them,
what we would traverse to be together:
It brings me back to Churchill
Street
coming home from the store
eyes up at the dense clusters
that sputter in the night,
And I think again of the question that dwells
in our minds about the plan
behind man, his place in the universe and the
universe, its place in man.
And I am left as at eight yrs. old
with the wonder of what makes it all,
the infinity between each light
and the eternity of one.
And I am dumb with the question.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the Ego
Re: The I in Howl (was [Fwd: Rejected posting to
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<971012001236_1788395707@emout14.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 00.12 12/10/97
-0400, Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM> wrote:
>Diane &
David:
>
>It's
interesting to note that 3 of the most important works in the Beat canon
>begin with
"I":
>
>"I saw
the best minds of my generation...."
>-Allen
Ginsberg, HOWL
>
>"I first
met Dean...."
>-Jack
Kerouac, ON THE ROAD
>
>"I can
feel the heat closing in...."
>-William S.
Burroughs, NAKED LUNCH
>
>Your
discussions of "I" could apply to all 3 works and writers. WSB's "the
>IS of
identity" passage in AH POOK IS HERE also comes to mind.
>
>Furtive
Regards,
>
>Arthur
>
amici beat,
may i add an
"I" quote by William Carlos Williams the "patron saint" of
the beat?
at the beginning
of "THE GREAT AMERICAN NOVEL" William Carlos Williams writes:
" I.
THE FOG.
If there is
progress then there is a novel. Without progress there is nothing. Everything
exists from the beginning. I existed in the beginning.
"
saluti e felice
settimana a tutti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Roy
Lichtenstein
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<971012001236_1788395707@emout14.mail.aol.com>
References:
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/licht/comm/comm.htmlTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Patti
Smith (Peace and Noise)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<971012001236_1788395707@emout14.mail.aol.com>
References:
http://www.repubblica.it/musica/patty/patty/patty.html
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
"I"'s have it
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<971012001236_1788395707@emout14.mail.aol.com>
References:
At 09.33 12/10/97
-0700, James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET> wrote:
>God I wish I
had a good anthology handy.
>
>Great
"I" lines keep springing to mind.
>
>"Arms
and the Man I Sing"-- I guess it could be "I sing arms and the
>Man"--don't
remember the Latin --Virgil, The Aenid
>
>"I think
that I shall never see
>A poem lovely
as a tree " . . .
>
>Got to be
beat, those two I guess, following our current paridigm
>
>JS
>
---
Vergilii Aenis
I
Arma virum que cano, Troiae qui primus ab
oris
Italiam fato profugus Lavinaque venit
litora, multum ille et terris iactatus et
alto
vi superum, saevae memore Iunonis ob iram, 5 multa quoque et bello passus, dum conderet
urbem
inferretque deos lation; genus unde Latinum
Albanique patres atque altae moenia Romae.
...
---
Federica
"Kikka" Ferrieri says:
In english the personal pronoun is generally
expressed.
In italian there's non need. Infact you can understand
the person from the verb and in greek or
latin is the
same thing. Probably the english translation
of Aenid by
Virgilio sounds like that "I say the
weapons and the man..."
because you are not allowed to omitt it. But
us a matter
of fact in latin it is not in such an
emphatic position.
If it was it would be "Ego arma virumque
cano.." ---
dear friends,
i hope the above
mentioned Kikka's thought regard Aenid can help, saluti a tutti da rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beata
solitudo (Abiquiu, New Mexico)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<971012001236_1788395707@emout14.mail.aol.com>
References:
http://www.christdesert.org/pax.html
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: poem by
Maggie Helwig
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<971012001236_1788395707@emout14.mail.aol.com>
References:
The City on
Wednesday by Maggie Helwig
The street at six
in the morning
moves in the
darkness as knowledge moves in our bodies, blind the hum and transit through
passages of night.
We could not be
more alone.
Each of us, dark
travellers, me who sits on the bed at the window in a cold dawn, watching.
The lines of the
city extend like bones through space, not asking for directions, burned by the
wind.
But in this cold
blue moment I am
not so afraid as
I might have been
alone, now, here.
Things fall from
us, I mean
when our hands
are empty, when our eyes are sore and our hearts imperfect;
until we are
wrapped in the comfort of morning soft children cuddled in the blankets of
light and sleep.
In the morning,
grapes in my cupped hand, green, pale with water and sugar and faith.
The sun floods
Walworth Road. The city on Wednesday abandons itself to trust, to the constant
hope of bright-coloured paper, wool and cotton, complexity.
The gifts of the
spirit that fall down around us like tiny wheels and tops and flags, red
plastic kites and the smoke that drifts upwards from the cardboard burning
in the yard next
door,
our journeys to
the banks of the river.
At noon I pause,
in the sun, at a point in the air and my body aspires upwards. There is
no other way
through the city.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
Poetry of John Wieners
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
To Celebrate this
Broken Man: the Poetry of John Wieners
for John Robinson
Jeremy Reed
Lyric poetry
demands a total commitment, an inseparable pact between the poet's life and
art, and John Wieners has in every way fulfilled this redoubtable union. Poets
in the 20th century have largely been in retreat from their calling, and have
attempted to reconcile their art with avocational careers, and in the process
have contributed to the social unacceptance that goes with being a poet.
John Wieners
steps out of a doorway. He's a legend to the few who celebrate his elegiac
lyricism, and his consummately attuned ear. It's stopped raining, but the
street shines like the points in a blue diamond. He's in love with glamour and
torchsingers. He would like to be a beautiful woman. It's an obsession. In his
loneliness, a mood that permeates all of his poetry, he is thinking of Lana
Turner, Rita Hayworth, Billie Holiday, Barbara Stanwyck, Dorothy Lamour or Hedy
Lamarr. He has assimilated and personalised theatrically camp gestures, but his
rich inner world of ambidextrous personae is not easily translated into money.
Again and again his poetry turns on the question of how to live from lyric, and
how to resolve the dichotomy between the magic invested in the name of being a
poet and the demythicized role as it is translated into reality.
Poverty has
nearly ripped my life off,
kept me on the
streets and in boarding houses, drove me into asylums and maddened
drug-addiction tenements, where I lost my mother and father.
('New Beaches')
Wieners combines
the poet and sexual outlaw in one person, and his angular lyricism, at times
savagely polemical and at times gracefully poignant, owes as much to the 17th
century songwriters as it does to Black Mountain poetics and the Beat
Generation. Rhetoric and vernacular come together in his work, and his language
takes a shine from symbolist metaphor as well as tarnish from dust kicked up
off the street. Wieners is arguably the most subjective poet of his generation,
he personalises lyric in a way that sets him apart from the transpersonal ethos
explored by Olson, Creeley and Dorn. And it's the woman who suffers in his
work, the wounded and devastated anima in his psyche which has him again and
again consign his emotions to the self-evaluative poetic arena. It's the
dramatization of suffering that gives his poetry the gestures of a torch
singer.
Your wife's
necklace's around my neck
and even though I
do shave I pretend
I'm a woman for
you
you make love to
me like a man.
('To H.')
Wieners, finding
himself in the passive role in his sexual relations, invariably interprets pain
accordingly. His poetry is about maintaining a wounded dignity in the face of
societal humiliation, and in spite of drug habits, breakdowns, and periods of
itinerant vagrancy. He is the most explicit of gay poets, and it's much to his
credit that he has pursued a policy of sexual honesty right from the outset of
his career. There are no duplicities, equivocations or simulations in his
sexual psychology. His honesty is often unsparing on personal and ideological
planes:
I suppose that's
how I was born,
Come on and go
down on me,
because I live in
misery
far away from the
sea.
('Jimmy')
Where do we find
him? He moves through the late afternoon crowds, his eyes making a stab at a
jeweller's window, and staying there for a long time, or he will enter stores
and learn from the colours of the couture fashions, and imagine himself a diva
leaving with a sequinned gown and a variety of make-up. No-one before has made
a poetry out of his subject material, and his exploration of obsessive fetishes
cultivated by a traumatised anima has shifted the parameters of what is thought
to be acceptable subject matter for poetry. Wieners is essentially an American phenomenon
in that British poetry continually narrows its focus, and would fail to
integrate his work into its largely commonplace organism. Despite the
appearance of a Selected Poems from Jonathan Cape in 1972, and an earlier book
Nerves from Cape Goliard in 1970, Wieners remains arcane knowledge in this
country, given only to the enthusiasm of a cult who cherish and keep his work
alive through underground sources.
John Wieners
living in poverty at Joy Street, Boston, seven orange roses beside him in a
glass, a long scarf draped from his shoulders. He has an identity, the panache
of the poet transcending ruin to live in the light of his commitment. Wieners
has never sold himself short, he has honoured his calling by dishonouring its
alternatives, conformism and unemployment. His eye works to find the
aesthetically redemptive particular:
Bulgarian lilies,
trans
sylvanian tulips
on a
rose quartz
stair-case bend
beneath sunrise.
Hun-
garian roses
twisted to shape
('White Rum and
Limes')
Wieners follows
in the tradition of le poète maudit, the one who is a danger to society by
reason of uncompromising vision. The one who goes all the way and cares nothing
for himself in the process, like Lautréamont, Rimbaud, and Hart Crane. Wieners'
work is about the retrieval of truth from the ideological complex of lies, and
it's about maintaining a state of creative innocence in a world of experiential
corruption. The internalized process of poetics creates purity when the
energies are rightly directed. Wieners has remained pure in his situation to
his gift, and is that even if he is blowing a guy in a parking lot or measuring
a hit of morphine. The poète maudit is the alchemist, he who transmutes all
experience into recognizable gold, by which I mean lyric. And the poem is in
itself the reward for a life of solitary exclusion, punctuated by the fanatical
enthusiasm of the few who align with the work:
half-a-decade of
rest, the skin on my legs has changed it holds together
now as a rich
person by itself, I have vowed I shall never be again and know
I shall never be
lonely again, because of the love that dwells within poetry's mouth
('New Beaches')
It takes an
irrefutable courage to compound lines like these, and it's given to few to
write them. Wieners is in his heightened moments, when lyric is aspiring to a
vertical axis, visionary. Something in the line dazzles, and his native Beacon
Hill is aureoled by his inimitably cadenced poetic speech. And even if he is
lonely, and in love with married men, a Billie Holiday song accompanying his
late-afternoon reverie, then his gift has been to dis-alienate those who are
similarly ostracised and alone. Wieners has given an accessible poetry to gay
culture, junkies, transvestites, transsexuals, and not least the lonely. And he
has restored dignity to the role of being a poet.
Wieners has made
poetry out of want. Denied the life of material opulence and romantic love to
which his aesthetic sensibility reaches, he has imagined their existence within
his work. Like Jean Genet, who transformed his prison cell into any number of
palatial rooms, and transmogrified his solitary sexual state into imagined
orgiastic excesses, so Wieners writes to situate himself in a world vitalized
to his needs:
Lost in his arms
for two days,
I find my secret
passions rewarded;
melting, blended
as before
receiving kisses
as from a King of the Black Sea, no-one able to compete with his necessity.
('We Would Be Two
Men')
Since Behind the
State Capitol, published in 1975, Wieners has largely fallen silent in terms of
published work. His state of ravaged psychophysical dissolution has needed time
in which to repair, and so the legend surrounding his name deepens. In the
Sixties and Seventies he was eminently prolific, his tormented lyrics
subscribing to form and rhyme when the latter were considered as impositional
phenomena belonging to a dead poetry. His method of writing constellated
precision at a time when form was in débâcle.
Of his long
silence Wieners has said: 'I am living out the logical conclusion of my books.'
Inside this broken man you will find Ava Gardner, he refers to her as 'the
Master', and any number of the glam icons with whom he identifies. They are his
inner reality. Take a walk across the park with John Wieners, and he is
dejectedly withdrawn into his own inner pantheon of the stars. His clothes
affect the little touches of style which so individualize his work. He's headed
towards a gay bar. An autumn leaf falls in his hair.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Van
Morrison.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199710041756340098@classic.msn.com> <3437BCBA.55F3@midusa.net>
<3437BDBB.7934@midusa.net>
Alan Watts Blues by Van Morrison
Well I'm taking
some time with my quiet friend Well I'm takin' some time on my own.
Well I'm makin'
some plans for my getaway There'll be blue skies shining up above When I'm
cloud hidden
Cloud hidden
Whereabouts
unknown
Well I've got to
get out of the rat-race now I'm tired of the ways of mice and men
And the empires
all turning into rust again.
Out of everything
nothing remains the same That's why I'm cloud hidden
Cloud hidden
Whereabouts
unknown
Bridge
Sittin' up on the
mountain-top in my solitude Where the morning fog comes rollin' in
Just might do me
some good.
Well I'm waiting
in the clearing with my motor on Well it's time to get back to the town again
Where the air is sweet and fresh in the countryside Well it won't be long
before I get back here again.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Like
Old Days in the Park--Is It Real or is it Retro?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
References:
<34419FC2.3D43@pacbell.net> <3441AB90.49A5@midusa.net> <3441B2BC.45A0@pacbell.net>
<3441B16E.2C87@midusa.net>
At 01.03 13/10/97
-0500, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>shooting with
the men 1985
> by patricia elliott
>
>The tall thin
man
>leaps to a
crouch
>opening fire
on his own heart.
>
>i watched
morgan stand stiff, posed,
>ignoring me,
for who was she
>but some ol
sow eyed gal.
>I am the
ghost, the one that suvived.
>
>trying to
smell the hidden secrets
>in the face
of the horrid honest man.
>ted was green
with fear
> if this was
a writer,
>
>the tall slim
eye once again
>baring the
tattered muscle,
>He led me
once and then again up to the gun.
>Both of us
getting past past.
>I shot fast,
>He took my
hand ,
>he sang,
>he wept and
gave me tears.
>
>we walked
home through the dark.
>
>
the patricia's
poem remind me
a Jack Kerouac
televised in 1969,
during his
italian tour to celebrate the 500th series of novels of La Medusa with the book
"Big Sur" (translated in italian), the trip was bad and Jack Kerouac
wished "tell me off" and at the end "of course not, but why
don't you shoot me?"
saluti a tutti,
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Standing
Stone a Symphony by Paul McCartney.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
References:
<34419FC2.3D43@pacbell.net> <3441AB90.49A5@midusa.net> <3441B2BC.45A0@pacbell.net>
<3441B16E.2C87@midusa.net>
The cover(photo
by Linda McCartney) of the disk (and the cover of the program) offers an image
of a gigantic monolith = standing stone. Paul McCartney says that Allen
Ginsberg liked the title.
saluti da
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: What is
the sound of one hand clapping? (fwd) SUN RA
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: <3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
References:
<34419FC2.3D43@pacbell.net> <3441AB90.49A5@midusa.net> <3441B2BC.45A0@pacbell.net>
<3441B16E.2C87@midusa.net>
>Date: Fri, 17
Oct 1997 12:00:01 -0800
>From: bofus?
<bofus@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re:
SUN RA
>
>Jeff Johnson
<johnson3@eau.net> wrote:
>>
>> here is
a conversation with the late Sun Ra that James Jackson who played
>> oboe,
bassoon and a whole bunch of other shit told me about:
>>
>> James
Jackson: I got something you can't possibly
figure out. An
>>
immeasurable equation. Folks been tryin
to put an answer to this for years.
>>
>> Sun
Ra: Oh yeah, Jacks?
>>
>> James
Jackson: What is the sound of one hand
clapping?
>>
>> Sun
Ra: The wind.
>
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: una
poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3441B9BB.45ED@sunflower.com>
References:
<34419FC2.3D43@pacbell.net> <3441AB90.49A5@midusa.net> <3441B2BC.45A0@pacbell.net>
<3441B16E.2C87@midusa.net>
Alla maniera di Cecco Angiolieri
S'i' fosse foco, non fumerei
S'i' fosse vento, suonerei soltanto i flauti
lirici
S'i' fosse acqua, non berrei altro che vino
S'i' fosse dio, mi farei una Dea
S'i' fosse Papa, mi farei mamma mia
S'i' fosse mamma, darei natali a molte
vergini
S'i' fosse imperatore, sa' che farei?
Ucciderei tutti gl'imperatori.
S'i' fosse morte, ritornerei all'utero per
ricominciare
S'i' fosse cieco, troverei un cane
S'i' fosse un cane, troverei un cieco
Che vuole fare molte passeggiate ai bordelli.
---
written in
italian by Lawrence Ferlinghetti ---
cari saluti e
buon sabato a tutti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
archive
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997101517244596@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
At 17.20 15/10/97
EDT, Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
wrote:
>The disk that
holds the archive for Beat-l is full.
As a result, Fred
>Bogin and I
will have to do something to free disk space.
Our plan is
>to download
all 1995 files and to erase them from the online archive. I
>will work on
editing the downloaded files and restore those threads that
>I think have
archival importance at a later date. If
anyone has any
>interest in
keeping all postings to Beat-l for whatever mad reason, now
>would be a
good time download those files to your hard drive.
>
>
Bill, please
dont'make that Fahrenheit-like project to erase the beat-L files 1995 or
anything other, i've noticed that the entire beat-L archive is
27,000,000bytes=27 megaByte, if i'm wrong please have me a touch, i dunno 'cuz
of 27 Mega are too much a lot of disk space on the hard-disk. Please, please,
don't...
yr Rinaldo... a
merchant of venice...
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: IL
GRANDE MAESTRO.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3446C53D.31E0@sunflower.com>
References:
IL GRANDE MAESTRO by Giancarlo Tenenti
Il grande maestro
mi ha raccontato
il grande maestro
mi ha insegnato
all'improvviso
il grande maestro
e' morto
---
Giancarlo
Tenenti, venetian poet & painter,
poesia stampata
nel dicembre 1988
isola di San
Lazzaro
a Venezia,
tipografia Armena
---
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
Kerouac Quarterly sample copies available
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971020015245.00696914@pop.pipeline.com>
References:
At 21.52 19/10/97
-0400,
"Paul A.
Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>wrote:
>At 08:07 PM
10/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>
>I have a number of the Vol. I, No. 2 which I will make available for sample
>>>
>copies (to my detractors and all).
>>
>>please
send me a sample copy,
>> a detractor
>> patricia
>>903 sunset
dr.
>>lawrence,
ks 66044
>>
>My pleasure,
hope you enjoy it and impart from it some of my good
>intentions.
thanks, Paul...
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
> Henry David Thoreau
>
me too, it's
possible also to send one copy to me? thanks
Rinaldo Rasa
via Morlaiter 2
30173 Venezia-Mestre
ITALY
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (fwd) a
link to Beatnik
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997102019511559@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
<Message of Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:09:09 PDT from <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
Dick Willis
<dick.willis@sbln.org.uk> writ
>If you are
interested in adding sound, have a look at
>
>www.headspace.com
>
>and click on
the link to "Beatnik"
>
>Dick
>______________________________________________________
>Dick
Willis South Bristol Learning
Network
un saludo a todos
!animo!,
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: people
of autumn (apocalypsis)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997102019511559@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
<Message of Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:09:09 PDT from <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
beatus, qui legit,
bill works well
et audit verba prophetie huius:
but the ''word'' owner perhaps disturbs
et servat ea,
the legend of duluoz
in ea scripta sunt:
compilation copyright (c)
the estate of stella kerouac, john
sampas,
literary representative; and jan
kerouac 1995
tempus enim prope est.
peo
ple
of
aut
umn Apocalypsis best before the date
indicated on the can end DIDN'T
YOU EVER read THIS BEFORE?
who
do you
take
me for?
---
Rinaldo
23th oct 1097
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Peter
Orlowsky grammar.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971023105920.17556A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
References:
<344F0F0E.111D@tezcat.com>
salve! amici
beat,
in Peter Orlowsky
poem there's a lot of grammar mistakes, if it's deliberate i think this way of
poetry is fine, un abraco e obrigado,
rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
road&field+reality&cut-up=#?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710232023.QAA18971@pike.sover.net>
References:
<19971023181552.19705.qmail@hotmail.com> <344F9A45.366@sunflower.com>
#1 messy clouds
(silence)
a black cat
(silence)
meeoww meeeow
(silence)
a small farm
in the country
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
my heart
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
#2 messy clouds
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
a small farm
in the country
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
my heart
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
YEP!
yep!
YEP!
yep!
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
#3 messy clouds
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
my heart
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
#4 messy clouds
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
#5 (silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
(silence)
---
Rinaldo
Autumn Lost in
Venetian Lands
24th october 1997
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Farewell
Cc: Richard
Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>,Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971024105410.10655B-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
References:
<199710240113.VAA27171@pike.sover.net>
....farewell is a
sad sad news, i hope nobody had forced to leave the beat-list, nor nobody can
do thoughts vanishing in electronic empty world pushing the del button, maybe
i've lost my head for ever, in the october wind....
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
Zappa says...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Date: Fri, 24
Oct 1997 13:06:48 -0400 (EDT)
>From:
YokoMofo@aol.com
>Subject:
Zappa says...
>
>
>It would be
easier to pay off our national debt than to neutralize the
>long range
effects of our national stupidity.
>
>Life is like
high school with money.
>
>It is always
advisable to become a loser if you can't become a winner.
>
>There will
never be a nuclear war -- there's too much real estate
>involved.
>
>Anything
played wrong twice in a row is the beginning of an arrangement.
>
>Seeing a
psychotherapist is not a crazy idea -- it's just wanting a
>second
opinion of one's life.
>
>Thanks to our
schools and political leaderhip, the US has an
>international
reputation as the home of 250 million people dumb enough
>to buy The
Wacky Wall Walker.
>
>People who
think of music videos as an art form are probably the same
>people who
think Cabbage Patch Dolls are a revolutionary form of soft
>sculpture.
>
>The only
thing that seems to band all nations together is that their
>governments
are universally bad.
>
>
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: in
memory of Beat-L archive 95, blues of bob dylan and robert creeley
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971024105410.10655B-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
References:
<199710240113.VAA27171@pike.sover.net>
all these people that you
mentioned
yes i know them they're quite lame
i had to rearrange their faces
and give them all another name
right now i can't read too good
don't send me no more letters no
not unless you mail them from
desolation row -- bob dylan
> GET BEAT-L
LOG9505 BEAT-L
File "BEAT-L
LOG9505" is not yet available.
> GET BEAT-L
LOG9506 BEAT-L
File "BEAT-L
LOG9506" is not yet available.
> GET BEAT-L
LOG9509 BEAT-L
File "BEAT-L
LOG9509" is not yet available.
> GET BEAT-L
LOG9508 BEAT-L
File "BEAT-L
LOG9508" is not yet available.
> GET BEAT-L
LOG9510 BEAT-L
File "BEAT-L
LOG9510" is not yet available.
> GET BEAT-L
LOG9511 BEAT-L
File "BEAT-L
LOG9511" is not yet available.
> GET BEAT-L
LOG9512 BEAT-L
File "BEAT-L
LOG9512" is not yet available.
they are taking all my letters,
and they
put them into fire.
i see the flames, etc.
but do not care, etc.
they burn everything i have, or
what little
i have. i dont' care, etc.
--robert
creeley
i remain
speechless --rinaldo rasa
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: una
poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
Cc:
Bcc:
dcaridade@geocities.com
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710201210.FAA22986@geocities.com>
References:
hola Daniel,
in his own book
titled "These Are My Rivers" Lawrence Ferlighetti gave on respect to
the italian poet Giuseppe Ungaretti (1888-1970) choosen as motto of the
collected poemes written by LF during 1955-1981:
Ho ripassato
le epoche della mia vita
Questi sono
i miei fiumi
[I have revisited
the
ages
of my life
These are
my rivers...]
GIUSEPPE UNGARETTI
the rivers are
those in north-est Venetian Lands of Italy where during the WorldWarI the
americans fighting to save italy, one of all Ernest Hemigway in his novel
"across the river and into the trees" where the river is "fiume
Tagliamento", today the river is still there such as at Hemingway time,
there's the same green water, and the same trees by the river, i always think
of EH when i cross the bridge...
Saludos a todos,
Rinaldo
----------------
At 12.31 20/10/97
+0100, daniel wrote:
>----------
>> From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>> To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject:una
poesia scritta in italiano da Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
>
>Ciao RINALDO,
>
>I'm going to
write in english 'cause my written italian is pretty bad,
>
>well I'd like
to know if there are more of Ferlinghetti's poetry written
>directly in
italian? Could you post more? Is there a book?
>
>thanks,
>
>daniel
caridade
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: John
Lennon in the Porto Santo Stefano by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997102019511559@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References: <Message
of Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:09:09 PDT from <mrsparty@HOTMAIL.COM>
John Lennon in the Porto Santo Stefano by
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
A trattoria in the porto:
an astonishingly beautiful couple enters
in shorts
He's got a fantastic torso
long hair and a golden headband
She's got long flaxen hair
German hippies maybe
Bourgeois back home
Another couple saunters in and joins them
Dark hair and jeans
Comme ils sont beaux
Not one of them is gay
though he's the most beautiful
He's got such a smile
Some story he's telling
What could it be
Something about John Lennon
lost in a mix of Tuscan and German
Comme elle est belle
with her empty eyes
the Germans very spaced out
the Italians very "with it"
But none of them look very happy
Perhaps it's just youth
i am trying to think of a Lennon line
to sum up the situation
There isn't any
He didn't live enough to give us
the mad eternal answer
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: in
memory of Beat-L archive 95
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.95.971024232522.21843E-100000@devel.nacs.net>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971024224344.00778964@pop.gpnet.it>
At 23.27 24/10/97
-0400, Michael Stutz wrote:
>On Fri, 24
Oct 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> > GET
BEAT-L LOG9505 BEAT-L
>> File
"BEAT-L LOG9505" is not yet available.
>>
>> i remain
speechless --rinaldo rasa
>
>speak, i have
a backup of all the files on cd-rom...
>
Michael,
thanks to take
care of Beat-L archive, i've checked the database retrieve command to obtain a
backup of the 95archive and found that's gone for ever (but Bill has perhaps
some planning to collecte the files off line), luckily some months ago hacking
i've on my hard disk a copy of 95 archive, but i'm happy to hear that people
has in mind to preserve the history of beat on the internet...
saluti a tutti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: oh
rinaldo
Cc:
Bcc:
country@sover.net, rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710251530.LAA23287@pike.sover.net>
References:
<34516EF1.715F@sunflower.com>
At 11.04 25/10/97
+0000, marie wrote:
>rinaldo:
>i have lost
your address.
>i am
inconsolable
>please send
yr address to me
>country@sover.net
>i miss you,
>gentle
friend.
>love
>marie
>
>
marie, sister,
poetess,
...Ah we were
blind animals back then
in those dumb days
My dear Carmen'' -- Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
un abbraccio,
on the internet:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
rasa@gpnet.it
on the earth:
Rinaldo Rasa
via Morlaiter 2
30173
Venezia-Mestre
ITALIA
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: side
effects
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710251530.LAA23287@pike.sover.net>
References:
<34516EF1.715F@sunflower.com>
Gabriele D'Annunzio - Enrico Caruso
Jacques Prevert - Yves Montand
William Burroughs - U2
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Emmet
Grogan.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710251530.LAA23287@pike.sover.net>
References:
<34516EF1.715F@sunflower.com>
"E.
Church" (brcs@U.WASHINGTON.EDU) says:
Who is Mr. E. Grogan? Grogan was one of the founders of the
Diggers, a group that scrounged and provided food and services on the Lower
East Side in the sixties to the influx of hippies and other kids who arrived in
the city barefoot and entranced. Abbie
Hoffman was another. These tireless
fellows were hearty souls who busted their asses to keep the "counter
culture" dreaming and eating; the folks behind the curtains. Now, with tie-dye revisionism, with People
Magazine's Jerry issue, with all the groovy graphics on MTV and the Net, it's a
nice zen reality check to remember the sixties were not all peace love but
contained some busted glass, bad dope, mean cops, and hungry runaways.
Grogan wrote a bunch of this up in his bio,
"Ringolevio," and Abbie wrote a bunch, too, like "Steal this
Book" and many others. A good dose
of railroad medicine and Texas gin, and a little less Brady Bunch might help
explain what really happened to the new generation. Then again, re-inventing the wheel has it
merits.
Estacado66@aol.com
writes:
>Right-winged
anarchism goes too far (IMHO) when it suggest the
>
privatization of all (such as for instance, oxygen supply in an O'Neill
> cylinder),
and left anarchism is wong when it contests the property of
> personal
goods (for instance, Emmet Grogan, leader of the
>
anarcho-socialists Diggers, telling Allen Ginsberg he was an ugly
> capitalist,
only because he wanted to retire in a house with a garden!).
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: help:
the lion for real
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710262138.PAA19672@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
References:
friends,
by the Campo
Santa Margherita, in a shop window Allen Ginsberg looks at me, i brought the
lion for real, worth buying, in the tracks there's as a plus for the CD italian
edition "the ballad of skeletons" and "amazing grace" but
there's isn't the lirycs, help!, i appreciate if one can post it, un mucchio di
grazie in anticipo da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
L'America della Pivano si salva dal rogo.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710262138.PAA19672@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
References:
A big thanks to
Luciano Benetton, a fellow villager of mine, both born in Ponzano Veneto
(Treviso) in the land where the meadows became hills in the "campagna
veneta". i'm proud that by synchronycity Benetton saves the books &
articles written by Fernanda Pivano, she (as stated in the Arpaia's news) was
planning to burn in a fire the archive 'cuz of the indifference of the italian
public administration,
saluti a tutti da
Rinaldo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"L'America della Pivano si salva dal
rogo"
article by Bruno Arpaia (c) "la
Repubblica"
Per anni la
scrittrice ha cercato di donare alle istituzioni la sua raccolta di volumi e di
lettere degli artisti della beat generation. Ora Benetton aprira' un Fondo.
Milano, 28
ottobre 1997,
Cinquatamila
volumi e una fittissima corrispondenza durata piu' di quarant'anni con Ernest
Hemingway, Francis Scott Fitzgerald, Saul Bellow, Alice B. Toklas, Allen
Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac, Gregory Corso, e poi con gli scrittori delle
generazioni successive, come Raymond Craver o Jay McInerney. Il preziosissimo
archivio e la biblioteca di Fernanda Pivano, "la donna che ha inventato
l'America in Italia", rischiavano di finire al rogo. E invece, per
fortuna, quei libri e quelle lettere, fondamentali per chiunque si interessi di
letteratura americana contemporanea, sono scampati al falo'.
Merito di Luciano
Benetton, che ha preso personalmente contatti con la scrittrice e le ha offerto
alcuni locali in corso di Porta Vittoria a Milano, nei pressi della biblioteca
Sormani. Grazie alla Fondazione Benetton, nascera' cosi' un "Fondo sudi e
ricerche Fernanda Pivano", che ospitera' e cataloghera' anche novemila
volumi di letteratura francese appartenuti a Riccardo, il padre della
scrittrice, migliaia di documenti inediti, ritagli, giornali, collezioni di
introvabili riviste underground, manoscritti e prime edizioni con dedica. Un
vero tesoro per gli studiosi, anche se "Nanda" preferirebbe che i
frequentatori del Fondo siano giovani e non quelli che lei, con un pizzico di
cattiveria chiama "i professori". Ha perfino ironicamente chiesto,
naturalmente senza ottenerlo, di vietare loro l'accesso, perche', dice, "i
professori mi hanno fatto la guerra per tutta la vita e non mi va che adesso
approfittino del materiale che ho impiegato anni a raccogliere".
La Pivano aveva
preso la decisione del "rogo" nel 1990, dopo anni passati a insistere
con le amministrazioni comunali di Roma e Milano per trovare un rifugio alle
sue carte. Ormai, nella casa di via Senato, tra scatoloni e pile di libri, a
stento si riusciva a camminare.
Ma quei contatti
erano stati vani: intralci e ottusita' burocratiche impedirono di accettare la
donazione. "Mi hanno presa in giro per tre anni", dice la Pivano,
"per poi rifiutare senza una spiegazione".
Alla fine, non le
era restata altra scelta:"Alla mia morte, bruciateli", aveva ordinato
nel suo testamento. Ora le tocchera' riscriverlo, ma e' felice e
commossa:"Non so dire come Benetton abbia saputo della decisione di
bruciare i miei libri", perche' in genere non parlo di cose private. Fatto
sta che ha compiuto un gesto molto elegante e di grande generosita'. Sono
orgogliosa e riconoscente".
La
"sistemazione" della biblioteca e dell'archivio sono per la Pivano il
coronamento di un anno importante. A maggio, i suoi ottant'anni sono stati
festeggiati in tutta Italia. Genova, la sua citta natale, le ha dedicato una
serata al teatro Carlo Felice e le ha conferito la cittadinanza onoraria. Le
piu' importanti personalita' della cultura hanno riconosciuto in varie
occasioni il proprio debito nei confronti di chi ci ha spalancato le porte di
un'America nascosta e l'importanza del suo lavoro. Un lavoro iniziato tanto
tempo fa, quando, grazie a Pavese, la giovanissima "Nanda" aveva
scoperto la letteratura americana e aveva fatto le prime traduzioni
dell'"Antologia di Spoon River" e di "Foglie d'erba" di
Whitman. Poi erano venuti l'incontro a Cortina con Hemingway, l'intensa
amicizia con i poeti della beat generation, imposti in Italia, quando farli
pubblicare era un'impresa ardua e difficile, la scoperta delle nuove voci della
letteratura d'oltreoceano, i libri e le migliaia di articoli che ci
raccontavano di un continente che cambiava. Unico neo di quest'anno, la mancata
nomina a senatrice a vita, proposta da Enzo Biagi, Dacia Maraini, Bernardo
Bertolucci e Lalla Romano. Ma e' una pecca da poco. La creazione del Fondo la compensa
ampiamente. "Per me e' davvero imprtante. Sarebbe stato un peccato lasciar
disperdere il lavoro di una vita".
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: from
Memory Noises
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710262138.PAA19672@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
References:
On the Road by Jim Morrison
Miles and miles to the horizon
along sandroads
without landfall
crossed from occasions
of sin & fear
the rhythm of the wandering
footsteps
toward the smile
of a stranger.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thanks
for Re: Ballad of the Skeletons
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997102901220257@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
many thanks to
the friends who gave me info 'bout the tracks #18 and #19 of The Lion For Real,
the sound of Ginserg's voice/word and the music in back have a great
feeling...To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Apocalyptic Beat / Lamb, No Lion.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3457EB88.5A7A@sunflower.com>
References:
Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET> mentions: Lamb, No Lion, 1958 (written by Jack
Kerouac) "...Beat doesn't mean tired, or bushed, so much as it means
'beato,' the Italian for beatific: to be in a state of beatitude, like St.
Francis, trying to to love all life, trying to be utterly sincere with
everyone, practicing endurance, kindness, cultivating joy of heart."
The laste book of
Bible is The Apocalypse written by Ioannes (69 a.d.) and begin with the
exhortative words "BEATUS, QUI LEGIT" meaning "be blessed who
has a vision while he is reading".
The Bible is
differenced from the Veda or Upanishad (or from the ancient greek poems)
because it sides with the suffering being.
The Apocalypse
(Revelation) supports the victims, and it's the book of loneliness.
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
* PD. hola,
Daniel un saludo... muchas gracias. * To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
exchanging pic of mine
Cc:
Bcc:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\rinaldo.jpg;
In-Reply-To:
<34599AAA.521A@sunflower.com>
References:
hello friends,
letme know if i'm
wrong but alot of friends exchanges each other the photos, so i do it, sending
to you this little italian quadretto: myself (r, rinaldo) & (l, my litle
niece silvia), cari saluti a tutti saluti da
rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: wsb
and stephen king?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.971031142517.28876A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>
References:
At 14.28 31/10/97
-0500, "PoOka(the friendly ghost)" <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>
wrote:
>hey folks,
> let me say that i have never read any
of the Dark Tower books by
>Stephen King
but its very strange to see a similarity between the
>gunslinger in
King's book and Burrough's Kim Carson in the Western
>Lands/Place
of Dead Roads/Cities of the Red Night series. Any thoughts on
>this or am i
just overdosing on M@Ms?
>
jason
>
>
'Damn!' it made the trip seem sinister
and doomed.
We drove on. Stan's arm got worse. We'd
stop at the
first hospital and have him get a shot
of pencillin.
We passed Castle Rock, came to Colorado
Springs at
dark. The great shadows of Pike's Peak
loomed our
right -- jack kerouac On the Road, part
four,4,pg.253 To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: blank
generation?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<345ACA57.479D@sunflower.com>
References:
kabul
the taliban government in afganistan has
extended its ban on photographs.
until now it had forbidden photography of
people, particularly of women, but did not
outlaw pictures of animals or non-muslims.
now it is illegal to display photographs of
living creatures because such representation
are deemed offensive to taliban-style islam.
[from TIME vol.150
no.16 october 20,1997] To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Humble Introduction
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03007808b080ce94cfe4@[156.46.45.146]>
References: <3.0.1.16.19971101125639.3057435a@mail.mpx.com.au>
friends,
here in Italy
it's a great moment for Knut Hamsun, the novel titled "Hunger"
translated in italian ("Fame") stands out on the bookshelves. i found
a beat connection via Charles Bukowski who quoted Hamsun such a man who eats
his own flesh in order to living and continue to be an artist (to work hard).
btw: Knut Hamsun
(won nobel prize). sad Knut Hamsun was a nazi (and a friend to adolf hitler),
this fate of some artists (i.e. Celine, Pirandello, Heidegger, etc.) is a
mistery of this gone century.
saluto tutti,
Rinaldo.
*
At 12.19 01/11/97
-0600, jo grant wrote:
>Glenn Cooper
wrote:.
>>
>>I just
joined this list today.
>
>>My other
favourite's are Knut Hamsun (a Beat 50 years ahead of his time),
>
>What do
others on the list think about this? Hamsun as "a Beat 50 years
>ahead of his
time?"
>
>He's a
favorite of mine.
>
>j grant
>
> Small Press Authors and Publishers
display books
> FREE
> at
> BookZen
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 402,900 visitors - 07-01-96 to
07-01-97
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
questionable backgrounds of some authors
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<345B6172.214@together.net>
References:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.971101182020.12229D-100000@is8.nyu.edu>
Diane Carter
wrote:
[... snipped ...]
>"Q: Do
you personally ignore Pound's involvement with fascism, or do you
>just accept
it?
>
>AG: No, I see
it as part of character and humour, h-u-m-o-u-r, which is
>changeable. I think he was, as he pleaded, mentally ill
for a while--If [... snipped... ]
>DC
>
cari amici,
i'm afraid Ezra
Pound had a simpaty for the evil, when he come back to italy he tried to get in
touch with conspirancy neo-fascism groups. he was disappointed because the
italians seem to reject "ben" experience then the poet became
politically silent living in venice since his death. Allen Ginsberg told us
that Ezra Pound "bet on one wrong horse", i think AG deals with EP
kindly. of course it's a GREAT ENIGMA why a poet so gentle & charming had
such a guru like Benito "Ben" Mussolini.
un saluto a
tutti,
rinaldo.
*To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
Frank Winters
Cc:
Bcc:
stpltd@netway.net
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.95.971103032548.568440020C-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
References:
<345DAD18.1B12@sk.sympatico.ca>
>From:
"Eric Sharp" <stpltd@netway.net>
>To:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
>Subject:
Frank Winters
>Date: Sun, 2
Nov 1997 21:07:25 -0700
>
> Frank Winters is a Denver poet in his early
50s who has been
>translated
into Serbian. He has traveled extensily in Europe, India, Tibet
>and North
American. He once featured Corso and Ginsberg as his tatoo
>parlor/poetry
venue in Commerce City, Colorado, and performed when he
>lived in
London, where he has introduced several American writers to
>bookstores and a now defunct newsletter Strangefish. He
is published with
>Howling Dog
Press and sharptongue (Denver). Eric Hjerstedt Sharp &
>publisher
sharptongue
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: More
of the Dharma
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.95.971103032548.568440020C-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
References:
<345DAD18.1B12@sk.sympatico.ca>
At 03.29 03/11/97
-0600, Jeff Taylor wrote:
>On Mon, 3 Nov
1997, Adrien Begrand wrote:
>
>> I just
finished the first thirty pages of Some Of The Dharma, and
>[...]
>> First
of, there's a wonderful little snippet of a conversation between
>> Kerouac
and Jamie & Cathy Cassady, revealing the origin of the 'God is
>> Pooh
Bear' line from the final lines of On The Road:
>> [...]
>> Man:
'Who?'
>> Cathy
(showing bear toy): 'Me. Don't you know that I am Poo Bear?
>>
>> God is
Poo Bear"
>
>glad to see
that cleared up....I knew that line in OTR couldn't have
>anything to
do with the constellation Ursa Major....
>
>*******
>Jeff Taylor
>taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
>*******
>
cari amici,
at the end of
"On the Road" we are in the heaven "... and stars'll be out, and
don't you know
that God is Pooh Bear? the evening
star..."
in the video
(i've on CD, ed sullivan's show?) where Jack Kerouac read
such sentence he
turn his eyes to the sky,
maybe the above
dharma dialogue (fine and good) was converted to another metaphor in the OTR.
out of this
planet the stars... "the father we never found".
i think that the
lost father,
(god) is a hidden
plot in the jack's novel.
un saluto a tutti
da
rinaldo
* the beet *
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU, "Paul A. Maher Jr."
<mapaul@pipeline.com>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: many
thanks to Paul Maher Re: "On the Road" ("Sulla strada")
Cover italian poket edition 1967.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
At 10.02 11/11/97
-0500, Paul wrote:
>Hi Rinaldo -
your cover you sent me is now posted. It can be found at:
>
>
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
>
>
> Thanks! Paul of TKQ...
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
>
> Paul,
u are very nice
to post the pic cover of "Sulla strada" (OTR in italian).
when i read JK
for the first time, i read a book so ''strange'' beautiful (it was 1969, and i
was 19year old).
and in those
times people have a love in reading book, i remember kids on the train wagon
reading beckett, ionesco, sartre, etc. wonderful times...
i am happy, Paul,
you have a look at this time that's gone forever... the poket cover of the
italian translation of OTR perhaps isn't the best cover of OTR... but HERE in
ITALY during the '60s that's what young people had in their own hands... and
it's a nice... nice... Paul, grazie di cuore!
un cordiale
saluto a tutti
da rinaldo.
from
venice-mestre,italy
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 9-9 by
R.E.M. (fragment)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>
References:
9-9 by
R.E.M.
Steady repetition is a compulsion
mutually reenforced.
Now what does that mean?
Is there a just contradiction?
Nothing much.
Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray the Lord, hesitate.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Cecco
Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>
References:
cari amici,
Cecco Angiolieri
born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260, was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls
and lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a friend to Dante
Alighieri.
His feeling is't
picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy, Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates
Angiolieri's poetry.
Now i post a poem
by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'
* * * * * * * * * *
La mia malinconia by Cecco Angiolieri
La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,
ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l sapesse
un che mi fosse nemico mortale,
che di me di pietade non piangesse
Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;
che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse
guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l mie male
sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse
Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;
e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;
ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene
men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:
mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.
* * * * * * * * * *
un saluto a
tutti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<346B9565.6EE7@midusa.net>
References:
<SIMEON.9711131927.A@ecs4m95.virginia.edu>
At 18.03 13/11/97
-0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>Eric Craig
Sapp wrote:
>>
>> hi
rinaldo,
>> could
you maybe post an english translation of this poem.
>>
>> from,
>> Eric
>>
>> On Thu,
13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa
>>
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:
>>
>> >
cari amici,
>> >
Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,
>> > was
an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and
>> >
lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a
>> >
friend to Dante Alighieri.
>> > His
feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,
>> >
Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.
>> >
>> > Now
i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'
>> >
>> >
* * *
* * *
* * *
*
>>
> La mia malinconia by Cecco Angiolieri
>> >
>> > La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,
>>
> ch'e' non discredo che,
s'egli 'l sapesse
>>
> un che mi fosse nemico
mortale,
>>
> che di me di pietade non
piangesse
>> >
>>
> Quella, per cu' m'avven,
poco ne cale;
>>
> che mi parebbe, sed ella
volesse
>>
> guarir'n un punto di tutto
tutto 'l mie male
>>
> sed ella pur: - I' t'odio -
mi dicesse
>> >
>>
> Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho
da lei;
>>
> e ched'i vad'a far li fatti
miei;
>>
> ch'ella non cura s'i' ho
gi'oi' o pene
>>
> men ch'una paglia che le va
tra' piei:
>>
> mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a
le' mi diene.
>> >
>> >
* * *
* * *
* * *
*
>> >
>> > un
saluto a tutti,
>> >
Rinaldo.
>
>hi rinaldo,
>
>so good to
see your name on my computer screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>david rhaesa
>salina,
Kansas
>
cari amici,
the Cecco
Angiolieri poem is written in very ancient italian, the time (XIII century)
when i.e. the ego was "I" (note the italian "I" use in the
ancient italian sentence "I' t'odio"= "i hate you!", then
the use was dismissed, now of course the italian people is less egocentric...).
the poem is in a
bunch of poems written by Cecco Angiolieri, prolific medieval writer .
well, for the
poem "La mia malinconia" Cecco is in sad blue feeling, his girlfriend
parted from him. Cecco is hopeless...
* * * * * * * * * * * *
My melancholy by Cecco Angiolieri
my melancholy is deep
that even a my worse enemy
would have pity for me
but the woman
she doesn't care about my
melancholy
she doesn't tell to me not even I
hate!
If she tells me "I hate
you"
it would cure my melancholy
but the woman
she tell me go away!
she doesn't care about my
melancholy
she tramples on my sorrow like
grass
under her feet.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
i think it's
wonderful to post the original poem by Cecco (the poem that Lawrence Ferlinghetti
mimes in ''Alla maniera di Cecco Angiolieri'')
* * * * * * * * * * * *
S'i' fosse foco by Cecco Angiolieri
S'i' fosse foco arderei 'l mondo;
s'i' fosse vento, lo tempesterei;
s'i' fossi acqua i' l'annegherei;
4 s'i' fosse Dio mandereil'en profondo;
s'i' fosse papa, sare' allor giocondo,
che' tutti cristiani imbrigherei;
s'i' fosse 'mperator, sa' che farei?
8 A tutti mozzarei lo capo a tondo.
S'i' fosse morte anderei da mio padre;
s'i' fossi vita, fuggirei da lui:
11 similmente far'ia da mi' madre.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
translation of
the above poem
by courtesy of
Federica "Kikka" Ferrieri
Cecco Angiolieri IF I WERE FIRE
---------------- --------------
IF I WERE FIRE, I
WOULD BURN THE WORLD; IF I WERE WIND, IWOULD STORM IT;
IF I WERE WATER,
I WOULD DROWN IT;
IF I WERE GOD, I
WOULD SEND IT INTO DEPTH;
IF I WERE THE
POPE, I WOULD THEN BE HAPPY, BECAUSE I WOULD TROUBLE ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE; IF I
WERE THE EMPEROR, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO?
I WOULD
COMPLETELY DECAPITATE EVERYONE
IF I WERE DEATH,
I WOULD GO TO MY FATHER; IF I WERE LIFE, I WOULD ESCAPE FROM HIM: IN THE SAME
WAY I WOULD BEHAVE WITH MY MOTHER.
IF I WERE CECCO,
AS I AM AND HAS BEEN,
I WOULD CHOSE
YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN: AND LEAVE THE OLD AND UGLY ONES FRO SOMEONE OTHER.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
un caro saluto a
tutti,
Rinaldo e
"Kikka".
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>
References:
<SIMEON.9711131927.A@ecs4m95.virginia.edu>
<3.0.1.32.19971114101422.00bdad94@pop.gpnet.it>
After Dino Campana by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
'Song of Myself and Others'?
O what a laugh
that is
When all I ever wanted
was to voice an
inchoate
elementary
fury
A spirit that frees itself
and flies
to the top of a tree to sing
in the ultimate
red sunset
O tree without birds
standing mute!
* * * * * * * * * * *
cari amici,
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti has celebrated the tuscan poetry connected with beat poetry and
it's right. Of course there's another 2 line in italian poetry: it's the sicily
poetry and venetian poetry. speaking of
venetian poetry (or lombard) it's more roughly and picaresque.
The tuscan poetry
is more soft and better, so the root of the italian language tuscan, sicilian
and venetian, it's better choice the tuscan language. Lawrence Ferlinghetti
wrote another poem to celebrate a tuscan poet such as Dino Campana who was
suffering during his life a heavy mental illness and died in a mental hospital.
* * * * * * * * * * *
for those who
like Federico Fellini's movies there's in the movie titled "Amarcord"
(1975) the mad uncle on the top of the tree shouting "a woman! i want a
woman!" but on evening went the dwarf nun and the madman goes back
peacefully to the hospital, an unforgettable scene.
I dunno if Fellini
was suggested by the above poem "After Dino Campana" or vice versa.
un saluto a
tutti, a good saturday to everybody, Rinaldo.
* * * * * * * * * * *
At 07.45 14/11/97
-0600, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>rinaldo,
wonderful poems, you make us open up. i do fear you have set a
>a poor
example, for we are too provincial,
should you ask us for to
>please post
our words in italian too.
>ciao
>patricia
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> At 18.03
13/11/97 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:
>> >Eric
Craig Sapp wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
hi rinaldo,
>> >>
could you maybe post an english translation of this poem.
>> >>
>> >>
from,
>> >>
Eric
>> >>
>> >>
On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa
>> >>
<rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
> cari amici,
>> >>
> Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,
>> >>
> was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and
>> >>
> lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a
>> >>
> friend to Dante Alighieri.
>> >>
> His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,
>> >>
> Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.
>> >>
>
>> >>
> Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'
>> >>
>
>> >>
> * * *
* * *
* * *
*
>> >>
> La mia malinconia by Cecco Angiolieri
>> >>
>
>> >>
> La mia malinconia e' tanta e
tale,
>> >>
> ch'e' non discredo che,
s'egli 'l sapesse
>> >>
> un che mi fosse nemico
mortale,
>> >>
> che di me di pietade non piangesse
>> >>
>
>> >>
> Quella, per cu' m'avven,
poco ne cale;
>> >>
> che mi parebbe, sed ella
volesse
>> >>
> guarir'n un punto di tutto
tutto 'l mie male
>> >>
> sed ella pur: - I' t'odio -
mi dicesse
>> >>
>
>> >>
> Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho
da lei;
>> >>
> e ched'i vad'a far li fatti
miei;
>> >>
> ch'ella non cura s'i' ho
gi'oi' o pene
>> >>
> men ch'una paglia che le va
tra' piei:
>> >>
> mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.
>> >>
>
>> >>
> * * *
* * *
* * *
*
>> >>
>
>> >>
> un saluto a tutti,
>> >>
> Rinaldo.
>> >
>> >hi
rinaldo,
>> >
>> >so
good to see your name on my computer screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >
>>
>david rhaesa
>>
>salina, Kansas
>> >
>> cari
amici,
>>
>> the
Cecco Angiolieri poem is written in very ancient italian,
>> the time
(XIII century) when i.e. the ego was "I" (note the italian
>>
"I" use in the ancient italian sentence "I' t'odio"=
"i hate you!",
>> then the
use was dismissed, now of course the italian people is
>> less
egocentric...).
>>
>> the poem
is in a bunch of poems written by Cecco Angiolieri, prolific
>> medieval
writer .
>>
>> well,
for the poem "La mia malinconia" Cecco is in sad blue feeling,
>> his
girlfriend parted from him. Cecco is hopeless...
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>> My melancholy by Cecco Angiolieri
>>
>> my melancholy is deep
>> that even a my worse
enemy
>> would have pity for me
>>
>> but the woman
>> she doesn't care about
my melancholy
>> she doesn't tell to me
not even I hate!
>> If she tells me
"I hate you"
>> it would cure my
melancholy
>>
>> but the woman
>> she tell me go away!
>> she doesn't care about
my melancholy
>> she tramples on my
sorrow like grass
>> under her feet.
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>>
>> i think
it's wonderful to post the original poem by Cecco (the
>> poem
that Lawrence Ferlinghetti mimes in ''Alla maniera di
>> Cecco
Angiolieri'')
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>>
>> S'i' fosse foco by Cecco Angiolieri
>>
>> S'i' fosse foco arderei 'l
mondo;
>> s'i' fosse vento, lo
tempesterei;
>> s'i' fossi acqua i'
l'annegherei;
>> 4 s'i' fosse Dio mandereil'en
profondo;
>>
>> s'i' fosse papa, sare' allor
giocondo,
>> che' tutti cristiani
imbrigherei;
>> s'i' fosse 'mperator, sa' che farei?
>> 8 A tutti mozzarei lo capo a
tondo.
>>
>> S'i' fosse morte anderei da
mio padre;
>> s'i' fossi vita, fuggirei da
lui:
>> 11 similmente far'ia da mi' madre.
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>>
translation of the above poem
>> by
courtesy of Federica "Kikka" Ferrieri
>>
>> Cecco
Angiolieri IF I WERE FIRE
>> ---------------- --------------
>>
>> IF I
WERE FIRE, I WOULD BURN THE WORLD;
>> IF I
WERE WIND, IWOULD STORM IT;
>> IF I
WERE WATER, I WOULD DROWN IT;
>> IF I
WERE GOD, I WOULD SEND IT INTO DEPTH;
>>
>> IF I
WERE THE POPE, I WOULD THEN BE HAPPY,
>> BECAUSE
I WOULD TROUBLE ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE;
>> IF I
WERE THE EMPEROR, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO?
>> I WOULD
COMPLETELY DECAPITATE EVERYONE
>>
>> IF I
WERE DEATH, I WOULD GO TO MY FATHER;
>> IF I
WERE LIFE, I WOULD ESCAPE FROM HIM:
>> IN THE
SAME WAY I WOULD BEHAVE WITH MY MOTHER.
>>
>> IF I
WERE CECCO, AS I AM AND HAS BEEN,
>> I WOULD
CHOSE YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN:
>> AND
LEAVE THE OLD AND UGLY ONES FRO SOMEONE OTHER.
>>
>> * *
* * *
* * *
* *
> *
*
>>
>> un caro
saluto a tutti,
>> Rinaldo
e "Kikka".
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: i'm
here.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>
References:
<SIMEON.9711131927.A@ecs4m95.virginia.edu>
<3.0.1.32.19971114101422.00bdad94@pop.gpnet.it>
cari amici,
if you point yr
browser to
http://www.comune.venezia.it/citta.htm
you can exactly
found in which venetian city area i'm living it's marked in the map as
13 -
S.Lorenzo-XXV Aprile
i dunno if this
is any interst but i posted and excuse me for the intrusion,
un saluti a
tutti,
rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: memento
of John Denver a month later.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199710150046.RAA11200@hsc.usc.edu>
References:
At 00.04 16/11/97
+0800,
jacqtang
<jacqtang@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>>
>> hello,
>> please
can someone post the "american pie"
>> lyric by
johnny denver?
>> thanks,
>> rinaldo
>>
>>
rasa@gpnet.it
>>
venice-mestre,italy.
>
>Hello
Rinaldo,
>
>I didn't
realise it was recorded by John Denver? Other than Don McLean,
>I know only
of The Brady Bunch doing a stupid version of it.
>
>You can find
the lyrics at for parts 1 & 2 at
>http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/oldies_list/top/lyrics/american_pie.txt
>or the one
that I've listed below from
>http://www.execpc.com/~suden/american_pie.html
>
>Enjoy......Jacq
>
>AMERICAN PIE
>============
>A long long
time ago
>I can still
remember how that music used to make me smile
>And I knew if
I had my chance
>That I could
make those people dance
>And maybe
they'd be happy for a while.
>
>But February
made me shiver
>With every
paper I'd deliver
>Bad news on
the doorstep
>I couldn't
take one more step
>
>I can't
remember if I cried
>When I read
about his widowed bride
>But something
touched me deep inside
>The day the
music died
>
>So bye-bye,
Miss American Pie
>Drove my
chevy to the levee
>But the levee
was dry
>And them good
old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
>Singin'
this'll be the day that I die
>This'll be
the day that I die
>
>Did you write
the Book of Love
>And do you
have faith in God above
>If the Bible
tells you so
>Do you
believe in rock 'n roll
>Can music
save your mortal soul
>And can you
teach me how to dance real slow
>
>Well, I know
that you're in love with him
>'Cause I saw
you dancin' in the gym
>You both
kicked off your shoes
>Man, I dig
those rhythm and blues
>
>I was a
lonely teenage broncin' buck
>With a pink
carnation and a pickup truck
>But I knew I
was out of luck
>The day the
music died
>
>I started
singin'
>So bye-bye,
Miss American Pie
>Drove my
chevy to the levee
>But the levee
was dry
>And them good
old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
>Singin'
this'll be the day that I die
>This'll be
the day that I die
>
>Now for ten
years we've been on our own
>And moss
grows fat on a rollin' stone
>But that's
not how it used to be
>When the
jester sang for the King and Queen
>In a coat he
borrowed from James Dean
>And a voice
that came from you and me
>
>Oh, and while
the King was looking down
>The jester
stole his thorny crown
>The courtroom
was adjourned
>No verdict
was returned
>And while
Lennon read a book of Marx
>The quartet
practiced in the park
>And we sang
dirges in the dark
>The day the
music died
>
>We were
singing
>So bye-bye,
Miss American Pie
>Drove my
chevy to the levee
>But the levee
was dry
>And them good
old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
>Singin'
this'll be the day that I die
>This'll be
the day that I die
>
>Helter
Skelter in a summer swelter
>The Byrds
flew off with a fallout shelter
>Eight miles
high and falling fast
>It landed
foul out on the grass
>The players
tried for a forward pass
>With the
jester on the sidelines in a cast
>
>Now the
half-time air was sweet perfume
>While the
Sergeants played a marching tune
>We all got up
to dance
>Oh, but we
never got the chance
>'Cause the
players tried to take the field
>The marching
band refused to yield
>Do you recall
what was revealed
>The day the
music died
>
>We started
singing
>So bye-bye,
Miss American Pie
>Drove my
chevy to the levee
>But the levee
was dry
>And them good
old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
>Singin'
this'll be the day that I die
>This'll be
the day that I die
>
>Oh, and there
we were all in one place
>A generation
Lost in Space
>With no time
left to start again
>So come on,
Jack be nimble, Jack be quick
>Jack Flash
sat on a candlestick
>'Cause fire
is the Devil's only friend
>
>Oh, and as I
watched him on the stage
>My hands were
clenched in fists of rage
>No angel born
in hell
>Could break
that Satan's spell
>And as the
flames climbed high into the night
>To light the
sacrifical rite
>I saw Satan
laughing with delight
>The day the
music died
>
>He was
singing
>So bye-bye,
Miss American Pie
>Drove my
chevy to the levee
>But the levee
was dry
>And them good
old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
>Singin'
this'll be the day that I die
>This'll be
the day that I die
>
>I met a girl
who sang the blues
>And I asked
her for some happy news
>But she just
smiled and turned away
>I went down
to the sacred store
>Where I'd
heard the music years before
>But the man
there said the music woudn't play
>
>And in the
streets the children screamed
>The lovers
cried, and the poets dreamed
>But not a
word was spoken
>The church
bells all were broken
>And the three
men I admire most
>The Father,
Son and the Holy Ghost
>They caught
the last train for the coast
>The day the
music died
>
>And they were
singing
>So bye-bye,
Miss American Pie
>Drove my
chevy to the levee
>But the levee
was dry
>And them good
old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
>Singin'
this'll be the day that I die
>This'll be
the day that I die
>
>They were
singing bye-bye, Miss American Pie
>Drove my
chevy to the levee
>But the levee
was dry
>Them good old
boys were drinking whiskey and rye
>Singin'
this'll be the day that I die
>
* ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** *
Hello Jacq,
have a nice day,
thanks for your very useful lyric info, the sad news of johnny denver's death
during an air fly accident, was connected with similar death as Othis Redding
(1967) and Buddy Holly (2th february 1959).
in 1971 johnny
denver dedicated
the
"american pie" (written by don mclean) to buddy holly.
it was fated to
happen the same accident to johnny...
the fragment is:
...
>But February
made me shiver
>With every
paper I'd deliver
>Bad news on
the doorstep
>I couldn't
take one more step
>
>I can't
remember if I cried
>When I read
about his widowed bride
>But something
touched me deep inside
>The day the
music died
...
Jacq again thanks
ciao,
rinaldo.
******************************************************
At 17.46 14/10/97
-0700, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>At 08:17 PM
10/14/97 EDT, you wrote:
>>On Tue, 14
Oct 1997 19:51:18 EST THE ZET'S GOOD. said:
>>>Was
John Denver Beat?
>>>
>>> --Dave B.
>>
>>
>>Well, he
had a song called "Rocky Mountain High." Does that count?
>>
>>
>
>If it does
he's beat.
>
>He also had
some song about he and his friends sitting around at night
>passing the
pipe around.
>
>Weirdly
weirdly John Denver was kind of beat.
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: recently
italian jack kerouac's novels covers.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<346B9565.6EE7@midusa.net>
References:
<SIMEON.9711131927.A@ecs4m95.virginia.edu>
At 15.48 12/11/97
-0500, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:
>At 08:15 PM
11/12/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>At 10.02
11/11/97 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>>Hi
Rinaldo - your cover you sent me is now posted. It can be found at:
>>>
>>>
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks! Paul of TKQ...
>>da
rinaldo.
>>from
venice-mestre,italy
>>p.s. i've
well downloaded the pic. it's works fine.
>>ciao.
>>
>>I am glad
you like it...if you have others I will gladly post them in time.
>Thanks again,
Paul...
>"We
cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."
>
Henry David Thoreau
> Paul,
the new reprinted
jack kerouac's works paperback series was out (same italian translation of the
50s'/60's) since 1995 and have photo covers are featured by Wim Wender
publisher:arnoldo
mondadori
photos Art
Director:Federico Luci
Graphic
Designer:Riccardo Danesi
(jk's
novel)______________.... title photo cover by Wim Wenders__
--------------------------.... --------------------------------- Sulla Strada
(On the Road).... Sun dries Las Vegas, New Mexico.
reprint 1995
Big Sur (Big
Sur)............. Western World Near Four Corners,
California.
reprint 1996
I Vagabondi del
Dharma ....... Flammable Terlingua, Texas (The Dharma Bums)
reprint 1994
Angeli di
desolazione......... Always open, Needles, California.
(Desolation
Angel)
reprint 1996
Visioni di
Gerard............. Old Trapper's, San Fernando, California.
(Visions of
Gerard)
reprint 1997
Il dottor
Sax................. Union Ludlow, California.
(Doctor Sax)
reprint 1996
it would be
beautiful compare the digitized covers of the present with those of the past.
please let me know if u likes the project...
saluti da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jack
Kerouac (fwd) Hallowed be your name. ..
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711121757.JAA20874@hsc.usc.edu>
References:
-B.D. says:
"
But naming, I
admit, is no laughing matter. It is easy for me to be supercilious about those
who rechristen themselves, because I have not had to find a new name. It must
be an intolerable burden to hate your name, which is-like your body, mind,
personality, and family-something issued to you at birth.
Of those
essential ingredients, names are the easiest to change; I am told by a lawyer
friend that it costs about $150 and three weeks to legally change your name,
which is less than it would cost to remake your body or engage a psychiatrist
to adjust your mental image. Interestingly, you can also change your name to
anything; there are no legal restrictions on people labels, and you can, if you
choose, name yourself after fruit, household items, insects, crimes, types of
wood, machines, garments, or shoes.
And changing your
name is a hallowed American tradition, especially among scribblers. Nathanael
West, Zane Grey, and Mark Twain, to name a few, started over whole (they were
Nathan Weinstein, Pearl Grey, and Samuel Clemens, respectively), and among
those who have edited their names are Willa Cather (born Wilella), Henry David
Thoreau (born David Henry), Jack Kerouac (born Jean-Louis), Walt Whitman
(christened Walter), and Nathaniel Hawthorne, who tossed a w in the Hathorne family
name, reportedly because he thought the extra consonant added a bit of upper
crust to the mix.
Renaming is
remaking, of course.
Naming yourself
confers autonomy, as well as the opportunity to shuck your past and start
again. It is a creation.
"
found on the web
site
http://www.catholic.org/liguori/reflect/ord11th.html
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a
question
Cc:
jjdorfner@aol.com
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>
References:
<SIMEON.9711131927.A@ecs4m95.virginia.edu>
<3.0.1.32.19971114101422.00bdad94@pop.gpnet.it>
>Return-Path:
<jjdorfner@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 16
Nov 1997 03:13:04 -0500
>Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
>To:
"Rinaldo Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
>From:
jjdorfner@aol.com (Jjdorfner)
>Organization:
AOL http://www.aol.com
>Subject: Re:
updated12nov97BeatSupernova
>
>hey...what
ever happened to Beat-L?
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: James
Laughlin, 83, Publisher of Revolutionary Writers
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>
References:
<SIMEON.9711131927.A@ecs4m95.virginia.edu> <3.0.1.32.19971114101422.00bdad94@pop.gpnet.it>
THE KITCHEN CLOCK
How can we make
it run backwards,
That taciturn
white circle with
Its torpid black
hands? We only
Touch the hands
when standard
Time comes to
shorten or daylight
Saving to
lengthen our days. That
Clock is lazy;
I'd like to throw
Eggs at it. But I
don't want it
To go forward
faster, as if it
Were drawn by
death. Let it run
Gently backwards,
pausing to
Greet happy times
again: the
Day when the
schoolboy wrote
His first poem;
the day when
The first jonquil
bloomed in
His little
garden; the day when
His father tossed
him into the
Lake without
water-wings to
Prove to him he
could swim.
"En arriere,
ruckwaerts" and "in
Dietro;"
those are your orders,
Lazy clock, until
the spring
Breaks and it
doesn't matter
What you do
anymore.
--James Laughlin
In Memoriam -
James Laughlin
1914 - 1997
http://www.connectotel.com/marcus/laughlin.html
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Ode to
Crazy Bull Caffe' in Piazzale Candiani
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711180245.VAA28266@pike.sover.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199711180205270983@classic.msn.com> <msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
marie wrote:
>a toast to
jack
>may our
livers meet safe in heaven
>mc
>
it's windy
(early in the morning)
it's sunny
(in the morning)
people didn't like
being called for free
(before midday)
dear Sir! DEAR SIR!
sorry
for the disturbance!
hoax
blots
HOAX 99% OF THE TIME,
now
(in the evening)
dear Lord! sorry SORRY!
we are A BUNCH OF boxers
and of course god,
yep GOD,
god is a punch-drunk boxer.
---
Rinaldo
18th nov 1997
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Aquila
poems
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711182005.PAA06764@pike.sover.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199711180205270983@classic.msn.com>
<msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
<3.0.1.32.19971118200458.00ce5d14@pop.gpnet.it>
The Dark Elves
We walk on trails
of darkness-
Exploring the hidden
corners of the mind- We dance among the neurons-
Playing tag with
fleeting memories-
We dwell in the
mind-
Creating dreams
and nightmares-
We gaurd the dark
secrets-
Those that you
hide from yourself-
Those you will
not let yourself come to know- Those that you will not let yourself see- Those
that terrify you-
Terrify you
because they are the truth- We are deep secrets-
We are forgotten
memories-
We are lost
dreams-
And we are with
you always-
Lurking, hiding
always from your concious- Dwelling only in the shadows-
Deep in the
sub-concious-
http://www.rain.org/aqpoem.htmlTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beat the
last generation
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711182005.PAA06764@pike.sover.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199711180205270983@classic.msn.com>
<msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
<3.0.1.32.19971118200458.00ce5d14@pop.gpnet.it>
http://www.apsv.it/beat/index.htmlTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Peaches!
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199711182005.PAA06764@pike.sover.net>
References:
<UPMAIL14.199711180205270983@classic.msn.com>
<msg1242928.thr-587f7f30.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>
<3.0.1.32.19971118200458.00ce5d14@pop.gpnet.it>
prologue
characters:
Harold Pinter, Luchino Visconti and Tennessee Williams.
Harold Pinter:
free market!
"YOU ARE FREE
BE GRATEFUL
EAT DOG SHIT
DIE HAPPY"
Luchino Visconti:
i love you!
Tennessee
Williams: Ah, Luchino.
part one.
characters:
Mademoiselle and T.S.Eliot
Mademoiselle:
hello!
T.S.Eliot: do i
dare to eat a peach?
Mademoiselle:
don't count on Me, please.
part two.
characters: Joyce
Johnson Glassman and Jack Kerouac.
Joyce Johnson
Glassman: you are nothing but a big bag of wind.
Jack Kerouac:
unrequired love's bore.
Joyce Johnson
Glassman: Ah, Jack!
part three.
the cell phone is
shaking in my pocket, man...
quick! soon,
don't do it ring!
---
Rinaldo
19th nov 1997
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: the
italian judge
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PCW.3.91.971118215414.12366C-100000@donahujl.bc.edu>
References:
At 22.08 18/11/97
-0800, jim donahue wrote:
>hey list,
>as much fun
as ive been having reading, responding,
>and learning,
there is just too much going on.
>but before i
sign off again (inevitably to return, as
>before), i
have a question.
>i teach a
writing seminar, and i am restructuring my
>section on
audience: intended vs. actual, implied vs.
>overt. i am using kerouacs "letter to an
italian
>judge"
and the "subterraneans." part
of the
>assignment
will involve what exactly kerouac could be
>responding
to. this is partly because i do not have
a
>copy of the
judges response. if anyone out there
>knows where i
might get a copy, i would appreciate it.
>i know i have
asked this question before (for those
>who
remember), but i thought id ask again before
>taking a
break from the list.
>i can be
responded to either through the list or at
>donahujl@moa.bc.edu
>thank youfor
any help, guidance, or direction anyone
>may be able
to provide.
>jim donahue
>
jim,
i've noticed time
ago yr request, and i cannot resist now to give you some info (but i'm not sure
if it's useful).
what i'm writing
isn't any scholar notes but only some fragmented (johnny mnemonic piece of
memories d/loaded...)
the "The
Subterraneans" was out in Usa in 1958 (Grove Press, NY) Kerouac was helped
by Joyce Johnson to publish the novel.
in italy the
novel was out in november 1960 and the publisher was Giangiacomo Feltrinelli, and
translated by an ANONYMOUS.
Feltrinelli was
an ultraleftist (friend to Che Guevara).
immediately the
"Subterraneans" was charged for obscenity but in the end the italian
judge senteced that the novel wasn't pornographic but artistic work.
the "Subterraneans"
(I sotterranei, in italian) translated by an anonymous italian translator
indicates that the novel was not square. Because "Giangiacomo Feltrinelli
Editore Milano" has head office in Milan (italy) may be you can get in
touch with Feltrinelli Editore (Giangiacomo died in a bomb explosion in 1972).
the Feltrinelli's
lawyers of course have a dossier about the lawsuit dated in 1960. you can also
contact the "Procura Della Repubblica Di Milano" in Milan (Italy)
where every document of any lawsuit is archived. Any sentence of the italian
judge is here.
the "The
Subterraneans" (I Sotterranei) was prefaced by Henry Miller and
introduction by Fernanda Pivano.
the march 97 the
21th edition has on the cover a painting by Tom Wsselmann, Great American
Nude#54, 1964., Neue Galerie, Aachen, Germany, 1992.
i hope to help a
little your research...
i miei migliori
auguri per il tuo lavoro, Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: The
BeatGeneration and post-Nagasaki Literature
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.96.971119221157.3865A-100000@am.appstate.edu>
References:
<3473A660.2F5F@sisna.com>
At 22.16 19/11/97
-0500, Alex Howard wrote:
>Progressive
does not necessarily denote progress.
And as we all know,
>progress does
not necessarily mean good. The guilt and
responsibilty of
>the deaths at
Hiroshima and Nagasaki is on the head of every American.
>The guilt and
responsibility of everything that has occured out of those
>terrible
points belongs with every citizen of a country that calls itself
>any sort of
leader or player in the global cultural landscape. They
>cannot be
forgotten. Just as anyone who ignores
suffering and injustice
>because it
happens somewhere else in the world carries with them a
>responsibility for and to the victims of the Holocaust.
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard (704)264-8259 Appalachian State
University
>kh14586@am.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
>
Alex,
i think people in
XX century goes crazy in a lot of countries, first of all in italy, the place
where fascism raise the flag and making the atomic bomb was a lot of europeans.
Gregory Corso
thinking
"You Bomb
Toy of universe... I cannot hate you... all man hates you they'd rather die by
car-crash".
Gregory Corso is
a pacifist and he wrote the poem "Bomb" after the Trafalgar Square
Meeting (London 1958).
The poet was
impressed by the people blinded with
hatred against the Bomb, he wrote the poem in Paris.
Allen Ginsberg
cutted out the typewritten poem and sticked them shaping as a mushroom cloud.
un caro saluto da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: when god
twirled the world into existence...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.96.971119221157.3865A-100000@am.appstate.edu>
References:
<3473A660.2F5F@sisna.com>
Sara Straw says:
>Assuming
guilt from the past is a christian theme, and I am an atheist.
>sara
>
"The ways of
the Lord lead to liberty" sayeth St. Paul...
yet a man need liberty, not God, to be able
to
follow the ways of God" --- Gregory
Corso
from ''ELEGIAC
FEELINGS AMERICAN
for the memory of John Kerouac''
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: latin
people
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.96.971119221157.3865A-100000@am.appstate.edu>
References:
<3473A660.2F5F@sisna.com>
cari amici,
i've a flashback
of a movie with Dennis Hopper in a latino american country (Mexico?) dated
circa 1970, where a group of friends have a similar experience to Sal Paradise
and
Dean Moriarty in
the 3th part of "On the Road".
somehow or other
the exotic countries are described such as place where people goes crazy and
transgressive. this way is a bit disappointing. why Mexico, Brazil, Italy, etc.
are match with
such strange peculiarity?
i.e. the
"german" people (or others of course, but i've noticed them) when are
in Italy they have drunk and very rude, but when are in his own country (saying
Munich) they are square and respectable person.
un saluto a
tutti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Still
Life with Women by La Loca
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971122205919.006a79f4@pop.pipeline.com>
References:
La Loca
Still Life with
Women
"The Square
Dance" above the four-poster was your first. The four sisters,
dos a dos, giddy
as the fiddler's lick, before their lives happened.
You've got them
childless
and kidding, eyes
and hair
the family
chestnut.
What's unseen is
you, the oldest,
taller than a
man, buck-toothed,
double
left-footed, hulking
by the punch,
painting.
Behind you is
mother,
small and not all
there,
one after another
cracking
pistachios,
retinas like departed
souls: a typical
widow.
She beat her
girls with switches
pulled from
lenient firs.
Her fat,
child-bearing hands
shell the favors
to the last
and then fold,
stub to stub,
across a stomach
cultivated
from marchpane
and babies.
She feels
brown-haired again.
Under a
floor-length hoop
her foot, once
swept from ballrooms
by a towering
groom, sleeps.
A le main left
and your sisters skip
to Cincinnati
with their callers.
"Good Night
Ladies," and mother stands
you at her back.
Help me, is the phrase.
Starting at the
small, you undo
the places she
can't reach.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (FWD)
Comparative Religions
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19971122205919.006a79f4@pop.pipeline.com>
References:
>Date: Tue, 14
Oct 1997 10:25:58 -0400 (EDT)
>From:
YokoMofo@aol.com
>Subject:
Comparative Religions
>
>A short guide
to comparative religions
>
> Taoism - Shit happens.
>
> Confucism -
Confucius say, "Shit happens."
>
> Islamism -
If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
>
> Buddhism -
If shit happens, it isn't really shit.
>
> Roman
Catholicism - Shit happens because you are bad.
>
> Calvinism -
Shit happens becuase you don't work hard enough.
>
> Judaism -
Why does this shit always happen to us?
>
> Lutheranism
- If shit happens, have fiath, and it will stop happening.
>
>
Presybterianism - If shit has to happen, let it happen to someone else.
>
> Zen - What
is shit?
>
> Jesuitism -
If shit happens and nobody hears it, did it really make a sound?
>
> Christian
Science - If shit happesn, don't worry; it will go away on its
>own.
>
> Hedonism -
When shit happens, enjoy it.
>
> Seventh Day
Adventism - Shit happens every day but Saturday.
>
> Hare Krishna
- Shit happens. Rama, rama, ohm, ohm.
>
>
Kastafarianism - Let's smoke this shit.
>
> Hinduism -
This shit happened before
>
> Mormonism -
This shit happened before, and it's going to happen again.
>
> Atheism -
Shit doesn't happen.
>
> Agnosticism
- Maybe shit happens, and maybe it doesn't
>
> Stoicism -
So shit happens Big deal. I can take
it!!!
>
>
>
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a poem
by Carol Berge.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
OF ROOTS AND SOURCES by Carol Berge
(for
d. levertov)
as
when the person's bones and thoughts
show
like branches, through the skin,
through
the years, overlaid in muted or
fern
tracery. or the voice remembered
when
the page is read. it is the sense
of
the thing to come, when discovering
this
face that is not new, after all:
the
idea opposite you which agrees
with
these definitions you have become.
under
spruce, the needles fall and fall,
the
new in patterns resembling letters,
the
past forming their base or the way
through
which the fine sheets climb.
it
is those moving near you, to remind
of
roots and sources, of your own leaf.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
allow me to...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
References:
<347A5130.177B@sunflower.com>
John Pullicino
<jjpull@PAC.COM.AU> says:
>g'day all,
>
[snip]
>i've been an
avid reader of kerouac and other beat writers since 1965 when
>as a
schoolboy i came across a hardback edition of 'on the road' in one of
>the
secondhand bookstores i used to haunt - i think it was the 'girls!
>jazz! booze!'
on the cover (predating 'sex'n'drugs'nrock'nroll?) that got
>my attention.
learning more here of course.............
[snip]
john, the same feeling for me, thinking about
"on the road".
i think back over the past, and remember the
on the road as
a story of a salesman (death of a salesman).
the american way
of life, religious of course, but keen
competition and no
pity for the loser. (Sur...
saluti, rinaldo.
p.s. techno pun
nostalgia, the Amiga 1000 was my first serious
puter. i brought it on autumn 1986. now it's
gone but a tear
was/is on my eyes...
(to everyone,
please excuse me for the digression), r.
>--
>bye for now,
>#<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#
>(|||||||||||||||||||) #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)
>#<|||||||||||||>#
*Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Stuck
Inside of Mobile
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
References:
<347A5130.177B@sunflower.com>
http://bob.nbr.no/dok/bdx/stuck.htmlTo:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: L'angelo
caduto.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
References:
<347A5130.177B@sunflower.com>
carissimi,
the book
"Angelheaded Hipster. A Life of Jack Kerouac" by Steve Turner, in
italian it's called "Jack Kerouac. L'angelo caduto" translated by
Alessandra Osti.
I think it's a
worth purcase.
strangely (?) in
the Feltrinelli's bookstore chain both J. Kerouac and W. S. Burroughs are
arranged in the italian literature shelf.
A. Ginsberg's
books on the contrary are arranged precisely.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
* Tristessa,
maybe Keroauc's sly homage to Bonjour Tristesse (which had made Francoise Sagan
a star overnight in 1955) --Aram Saroyan, foreword to Big Sur
*
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: one more
a day Charles Bukowski poem
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
References:
<347A5130.177B@sunflower.com>
One More Day by Charles Bukowski
the slippery
summer sun of my youth is
gone
and the mad girls
are in others' hands
as I drive my car
to the wash
and watch the
boys dry it to a hearty
glisten
I stand there
having learned
some tricks
out of minor
courage and lucky
durability
I still realize
my vast vincibility.
it took time to
realize
something quite
not
realized.
too much time.
time shot apart:
bang.
I walk to my car,
tip the gentleman
a dollar,
get in,
the slippery sun
of my youth
gone,
I drive off,
turn left,
turn right.
I am going somewhere.
hands on the
wheel.
checking the rear
view mirror.
I am old game for
the oldest
hunter.
I stop at the red
light.
it's a fair day
among the
living.
the earth has
been here for
such a very long
time.
I get the green
and go
on.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Driving
a cardboard automobile by Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
References:
<347A5130.177B@sunflower.com>
# 2 by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Driving a
cardboard automobile without a license at the turn of the
century my father ran into my
mother
on a fun-ride
at Coney Island having spied
each other eating
in a French boardinghouse nearby And having decided right there and then that she was right for
him entirely he followed her into
the playland of that
evening where the headlong meeting
of their ephemeral
flesh on wheels hurtled them
forever together
And I now in the
back seat
of their eternity reaching
out to embrace them
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Dove Sta
Amore...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<yam7269.1953.2825864@pac.com.au>
References:
<347A5130.177B@sunflower.com>
COMPOSIZIONE SCRITTA IN QUATTRO PARTI
#1 part
-------
Dove Sta Amore... by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Dove sta amore
Where lies love
Dove sta amore
Here lies love
The ring dove love
In lyrical delight
Hear love's hillsong
Love's true willsong
Love's low plainsong
Too sweet painsong
In passages of night
Dove sta amore
Here lies love
The ring dove love
Dove sta amore
Here lies love
---
#2 part
-------
year 1997, a kid:
"I'm disgusted by the life styles
of the baby boomers. They have
sparked a new era of social values
that have changed the world
in which I live,
creating a mass of problems
whose ramifications
they will not live to endure.
Their sexual revolution has resulted
in a society rife with sexually
transmitted diseases;
the institution of the family
has deteriorated to the point
of disfunctionality.
The baby boomers' use of narcotics
has destroyed many of my peers
in a circle of unbridled drug use and
addiction."
---
#3 part
-------
year 1959, Jack
Kerouac:
"...because
the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to
talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything, but burn, burn, burn like
fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in
the middle you see the blue centrelight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'..."
---
#4 part
-------
year 1920, Edna
St. Vincent Millay:
"My candle
burns at both ends;
it will not last
the night;
but ah, my foes,
and oh, my friends-
it gives a lovely
light!"
---
un saluto a tutti
da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Jim
Morrison
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<971130160528_-837024753@mrin51.mail.aol.com>
References:
Murat wrote:
>Hello,
[..]
>At 1970, Jim Morrison meets beat poet Michael McClure. McClure
>tries to
persuade Jim to print his poem book -Gods - New Creatures-.Does
>any one know
more about this story..
Jim Morrison
Interview by Jerry Hopkins - Rolling Stone 26th jul 1969.?
[]yes
[]no
> Also what is
relation between Jim
>and the
beats..
1967 Summer of
Love?
[]yes
[]no
---
saluti a tutti da
rinaldo
today it's a
foggy, rainy venice, italy.
*Hola estimado
amigo daniel! have an happy week.*
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: more Re:
lawrence ferlinghetti
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<19971201182720.17752.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
References:
13.
For years I never
thought of death.
Now the breath
of the eternal
harlequin
makes me look up
as if a defrocked
Someone were there
who might make me
into an angel
playing piano on
a riverboat.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a sonnet
by Wanda Coleman
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997120123523324@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
12. by Wanda Coleman
- after Robert
Duncan
my earliest
dreams linger/wronged spirits who will not rest/dusky crows astride
the sweetbriar
seek to fly the
orchard's sky. is
this the world i loved?
groves of perfect
oranges and streets of stars where the sad eyes of my youth
wander the
atomic-age paradise
tasting
the blood of a
stark and wounded puberty?
o what years ago?
what rapture lost in white heat of skin/walls that patina my heart's despair?
what fear disturbs my quiet
night's grazing?
stampedes my soul?
o memory. i sweat
the eternal weight of graves
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Woodrow
Wilson (Woody) Guthrie (1912-1967)
Cc:
Bcc:
race@MIDUSA.NET
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<19971201182720.17752.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
References:
song to woody by
Bob Dylan (1962)
I'm out here
a thousand miles from home
walking a road
other men have gone down
I'm seeing a new world
of people and things
hear paupers and peasants
and princes and kings
hey hey woody guthrie
I wrote you a song
about the funny old world
that's coming along
seems sick and it's hungry
it's tired and it's torn
it looks like it's dying
and it's hardly been born
hey woody guthrie
but I know that you know
all the things I'm singing
and many time more
I'm singing you this song
but I can't sing enough
'cause there's not many men
that've done the things you've done
here's to cisco and sonny
and leadbelly too
and to all the good people
that travelled with you
here's to the hearts
and the hands of the men
that come with the dust
and are gone with the wind
I'm leaving tomorrow
but I could leave today
somewhere down the road
someday
the very last thing
that I'd want to do
is to say
I've been hitting some hard travelling too
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
allow me to...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<yam7277.286.4820736@pac.com.au>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971126225017.00b5f614@pop.gpnet.it>
At 12.55 04/12/97
+1000, John Pullicino wrote:
>Hi there
Rinaldo, on 27-Nov-97 you wrote...
>
>> i think back over the past, and
remember the on the road as
>> a story of a salesman (death of a
salesman). the american way
>> of life, religious of course, but keen
competition and no
>> pity for the loser. (Sur...
>hmm - i
remember buying 'naked lunch' from a bookstall in via veneto, and
>reading it in
the borghese gardens - it's easy to forget the doors those
>guys opened
up in peoples lives
>
heila' John! i
bought "On the Road" in a venetian bookstand and was november 1969,
tha same year i was anarchist...
jack kerouac was
a boy next door...
p.s. au pun punk
are you knowing how many italians are in wangaratta?
un saluto da
Rinaldo.
*
"I travel
because I'm an Australian, and i've left Australia, and i don't consider any
other place my home but Australia.
I feel i'm
Australian, i've an australian sense of humour"--Nick Cave *
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Beat
Generation multi-media???
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199712041301.IAA25521@pike.sover.net>
References:
<Pine.OSF.3.96.971202090434.28222C-100000@am.appstate.edu> <3486776D.5AC3@eunet.yu>
marie wrote:
>all dylan
said, 'to live outside the law you must be honest': as a person who
>has no car
and only enough possessions to fit into one room, and a penchant
>for bussing
it and training it to meet with poets and other mad ones, i
>hesistate
still to call myself beat, but i sure ain't mainstream, clearly. i
>don't even
work.
>mc
>
>>Ksenija
Simic wrote:
>> i hope
i'm not too confusing.
>>
>>
combien de temps?
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Gender of Nature...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199712040259.VAA27976@buffnet4.buffnet.net>
References:
Bill Philibin
says:
>> Has
anyone noticed that in, Desolation Angels, Jack refers to the moon as
>> a she
and the sun as a he? Usually, the moon is male (the man in the
>moon)
>> and the
sun is female(giver of light, life, etc). Do you think there's a
>> reason
for Jack's reversal of genders?
>
>
> Really?!?! I have always heard the moon refered to as
female. It's the
>whole Luna
thing. And cyclic like a Womans
Cycle... Never really heard
>anything
about the Sun except for in Greek Lit.
>
> -Bill
>
>[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
carissimi amici
beat,
if this helps, i
can tell you that in italian language Moon=Luna is female "la luna",
Sun=Sole is
male "il sole",
at the beginning
of italian oriented language the saint San Francesco D'Assisi in his prayers
called the moon
"sorella luna" "sister moon" and the sun "fratello
sole" "brother sun".
maybe Jack
Kerouac is remembering the ancient prayers of the italian saint man?
un saluto a
tutti,
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: there's
a Ferlinghetti's JK unpublished poetry archive?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199712040259.VAA27976@buffnet4.buffnet.net>
References:
Nell'introduzione
a "Kerouac.Poesie beat" CARLO A. CORSI scrive: "Kerouac poeta.
Di lui, a parte una quantita' di inediti che si troverebbero presso il noto
poeta Lawrence Ferlinghetti..."
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Michael
McClure and Jim Morrison.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3487BA9E.3C78@egenet.com.tr>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971201192423.0068b9fc@pop.gpnet.it>
Murat says:
>> Jim
Morrison Interview by Jerry Hopkins - Rolling Stone 26th jul 1969.?
>> []yes
>> []no
> [+] i dont know.
>
> Yrs,
> Murat.
*****************************
Murat e tutti voi
cari amici,
Jim Morrison
interviewed tell he was writing a screenplay together with Michael McClure on
the basis of a unpublished McClure's novel. McClure typewrites directly the
ideas when they are together. The plot of the movie is a story about three
characters looking for a psychic treasure... one of them called Rourke is
neo-capitalist devoted to the revolution...
both are longhair
hippies... and they took the airplane to Mexico and they meet a black kid
called Derner. The trio ventured out to the desert in order to meet a border
guard to pull off a robbery...
Jim Morrison's as
cinema student at UCLA was described by Oliver Stones' movie "The
Doors" (1991)
an italian remark
sideway, Tito Schipa jr was the italian translator of Jim Morrison's lyrics and
poems.
Tito Schipa
senior (Lecce 1889- New York 1965) was a famous tenor opera singer.
i hope this help,
and other friends can help you to further dig a lot mcclure and morrison
connection,
The blue bus is calling us
The blue bus is calling us
Driver where you taking us?
saluti da
Rinaldo.
_________
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: THE PINE
by Dylan Thomas
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199712051726.MAA07800@ionline.net>
References:
THE PINE by
Dylan Thomas (1929)
Virgate and sprung of the dusk,
The pine is the tree of the breeze,
And the winds that stream through the ribboned
light
And the motley winds from the seas.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: read
kerouac
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<199712051726.MAA07800@ionline.net>
References:
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/names.html
http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/s.cgi?174To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Dylan
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3489E759.4DC97EB2@scsn.net>
References:
caro Bentz, (good
sunday) buona domenica!,
non so se questo
e' di aiuto a te (i dunno if this helps you) e gli amici (and to the friends)
but the connection is (ma il collegamento e')
Zimmerman->Zimbo->Dillion->Dylan.
che Bob Dylan
abbia cambiato nome in onore di Dylan Thomas non sembra accertato (it seems
that Bob Dylan don't choose his name as a tribute to english poet Dylan
Thomas).
by the good
office of the catholic culture bob dylan 'll be an icon in the x-mas crib
(cre'che), and it's not a bad news...
in the early 70s'
i tried to see the Wings in San Marco Square but the hugeness of people stop
the trafic on the bridge...
in 1989 the Pink
Floyd great performace... then the venice town council stopped the rock meeting
in Venice cuz they scared by the electronic sound shattering the medieval
monuments as in a futuristic/post-modernist/dream/nightmare...
p.s. Bob Dylan
says tha 'On the Road' "changed my life
like everyone else's"
cari saluti (best
wishes) da
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: found a
quote (was Re: Dylan)
Cc:
Bcc:
blackj@bigmagic.com
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<348A8EAE.7FAA@bigmagic.com>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19971207112256.00b76c28@pop.gpnet.it>
At 06.55 07/12/97
-0500, Al Aronowitz wrote:
>CARO
RINALDO: Please, can you tell me what is
the source of that
>statement:
"Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone
>else's." (To which I might also add Bob Dylan changed
MY life like
>everyone
else's.) Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg,
the Beatles, Bob
>Dylan! Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz
>--
>***************************************
>Al Aronowitz
THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
>http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj
>
caro Al, buona
giornata, (good day)
first source:
i remember the
Dylan's OTR proposition was quoted by poet Ron Whitehead as a tribute to the 40th
anniversary of Jack's masterpiece 1th printed.
by the way
what happened to
Ron? why he do not come back to beat-L he left a year ago?
second source:
Steve Turner's
book titled
"Angelheaded
Hipster. A life of Jack Kerouac" have a dedication to Bob Dylan (the quote
on the back of summary page).
i hope this help,
un caro saluto a
tutti,
Rinaldo.
* "some real
hot things in the Bible"--- jack kerouac * To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Pinocchio.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3489E759.4DC97EB2@scsn.net>
References:
morning
empty row
villas
green
green
hedges
barking
dogs
BEWARE THE DOG
day to day
barking
barking
maybe
a day
they 'll
stop it
thinking
me friend
---
Rinaldo
10th dec 98
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Musical
Instruments from the Tomb of Tutankhamun.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3489E759.4DC97EB2@scsn.net>
References:
The Trumpet of
KING TUTANKHAMUN
The recording of
the sound of
the trumpet was
made in 1939 in
the Egyptian
Museum in Cairo for
BBC radio.
The recording is
so unique because
since their
discovery the trumpets
have only been
played on very few
occasions.
Considering their fragile
state of
preservation, it is very
unlikely that any
more attempts will
ever be made
again.
"Owing to
its fragility, the original
silver trumpet
has been played only
twice, in the
spring of 1939, when
a modern
mouthpiece was inserted.
At the first
attempt, the trumpet was
shattered but it
was restored immediately and survived the eventual broadcast.
The notes
obtained by the military trumpeter, after the restoration, were c, e, g and
c." (From: L. Manniche, "Musical Instuments from the Tomb of
Tutankhamun", Oxford 1976, pp. 7-13).
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
point yr browser
to web site &
u can download
trombut.wav, the
ancient trumpet
sound:
http.//www.rai.it/grr/golem/maniaci/regra/
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
explanation "Pinocchio".
Cc:
Bcc: "Moritz
Rossbach" <moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de>
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<01bd0649$5d386c40$aa716086@ritzo>
References:
amici,
Pinocchio is a
puppet who was made by wood then became a real man. that'a all in italy.
saluti, Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(trumpet) Golem Tutankhamun.
Cc:
Bcc:
stratis@ODYSSEE.NET
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Antoine and
friends,
(in the film
titled fift element by Luc Bresson?) anyway the the legend at italian rai
broadcasting corporation the best site about the egyptian trumpets played in
the 1939. in this site there's a reverse sound of the tutankhamun trumpet and
others info...
tutankhamun
trumpets summary
check first!
http://www.rai.it/grr/golem/
http://www.rai.it/grr/golem/maniaci/trombfrm.htm
any comments and
ideas email the golem at
golem@rai.it
************
other web site
Hans van den Berg
http://www.ccer.ggl.ruu.nl/ccer/trumpet.html
and
http://www.amargiland.com/hall-of-records/tuts.trumpet.html
this sites
attention... that who are used to connect to internet via trumpet.exe file
maybe there's be a overwriting of the file by the tutankhamun trumpet file
so...
i hope this help,
if necessary other info email me
saluti,
Rinaldo.
--------
Antoine wrote:
>Rinaldo.....Hi,
>
> I tried to go to the Tutankhamun site,
but address didn't work. Any
>ideas?
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "Blessed are they who can laugh at
themselves, for they shall never
>cease to be
amused."
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Creeley
at 70 - October, 1996.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Baraka could've
no less stormed the stage than if he had been backed by the John Coltrane
quartet itself. Baraka's small build gives one no preparation for the immense
vision, rhythm, voicing, and cadences that will emerge from the flaming words
of his performance. Invoking as central to the Yugen of Baraka's earlier years,
"the big three" of the magazine, Ginsberg (is that right?), big
Charlie Olson, and Bob Creeley. (Sorrentino, by the way, also appeared in
Yugen.) Baraka paid homage to Creeley then performed from Transbluecency and
his more recent Funk Lore (Los Angeles: Littoral Books, 1996). Baraka's
humming, chanting, and vocal renditions of the standards-a la-Baraka were in
perfect accord with the chords still lingering, clinging to the packed,
overflowing theatre. No printed text can do this! People filling all seats,
people on all sides, standing, squatting, spilling out into the Hallwalls'
hallway. Blues, transblues, transvoicings, the unbelievable coup d'etats of
Baraka's "lowcoups" (African American version of that knock-out blast
commonly associated with the haiku), and his closing triumph (slaves, dig, we
were once slaves). Indeed, it was about people, what we are, the rhythms that
vibrate through one and the same.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Slawomir
Mrozek idées reçues.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
Slon
Wydawnictwo
Literackie
Krakow
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
http://wings.buffalo.edu/epc/authors/glazier/prose/creeley_70.html
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
the slave
andim'justnowreading Dutchman by LeRoi Jones do anyone here lookback Tommy
Smith and John Carlos?
i saw Amiri Baraka
televised by tvz0ne declaming
X is black
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
(FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1997121123355967@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
>Date: Fri, 12
Dec 1997 03:00:13 -0800
>From: bofus?
<bofus@mindspring.com>
>1968: While
other New-Left leaders preach violent overthrow of the U.S.
>Government
and creation of a Marxist dictatorship, Leary urges instead a
>nonviolent,
drug-oriented "hippie capitalism," an artsy-craftsy,
>decentralized,
libertarian sort of entrepeneurship that will also soon
>find its
expression in the culture of the Grateful Dead. While Leary's
>position does
constitute a rejection of the corporate world, it also
>embraces
private property and the profit motive. Because of this, the
>Marxist
Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) denounces Leary and his
>noncommunist
followers for "limiting the revolution." The Progressive
>Labor Party
(PLP), a Maoist "Old Left" group, goes so far as to claim
>that Leary is
a CIA agent. But the PLP is accusing everyone it disgarees
>with of being
CIA.
>
>1969: Leary
critics will eventually point with suspicion to his close
>connections
during this time to an international LSD-smuggling cartel,
>the
Brotherhood of Eternal Love, which is rumored to be a CIA front. The
>Brotherhood
is controlled by Ronald Stark, whom an Italian High Court
>will later
conclude has been a CIA agent since 1960, and the
>Brotherhood's
funds are channeled through Castle Bank in the Bahamas, a
>known CIA
"proprietary." For two years Leary lives at Brotherhood
>headquarters,
located on a ranch in Laguna Beach. During this period,
>the Brotherhood
corners the U.S. market on LSD and begins distributing
>only one
variety of the drug, "Orange Sunshine." Stark says he plans to
>distribute
the product to CIA-backed guerillas fighting Chinese
>occupation;
he reportedly knows a high-placed Tibetan close to the Dalai
>Lama, and
wants to provide enough LSD to dose all Chinese troops in
>Tibet. In the
U.S., meanwhile, Stark provides enough Orange Sunshine to
>dose the
hippie culture and radical left many times over. This is the
>"bad
acid" on which Charles Manson's followers murder Sharon Tate, and
>on which
Hell's Angels stab to death a black man during a concert by the
>Rolling
Stones. The Summer of Love has been supplanted by a Season of
>Hate. Because
of this, many countercultural insiders -- including
>William S.
Burroughs, White Panther leader John Sinclair, and Merry
>Prankster Ken
Kesey -- will eventually entertain the theory that Stark,
>Leary, and
Orange Sunshine are all part of CIA plot to discredit and
>neutralize
the radical left. According to former radicals Martin Lee and
>Bruce Shalin,
widespread use of Orange Sunshine "contributed
>significantly
to the demise of the New Left, for it heightened the
>metabolism of
the body politic and accelerated all the changes going
>on... In its
hyped-up condition, the New Left burned itself out."
>
>http://home.dti.net/lawserv/leary.html
>
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
(FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<7802273d.3492bdfd@aol.com>
References:
hello,
the agent Ronald
Stark is a notorius agent involved in the dark conspirancy against the
democracy here in italy (70s'-80s') connected with neo-nazis and neo-fascists
(operation Stay Behind) if there's any connection with Tim Leary it's really a
very dangerous bang to the public image of the countercultural leader. I hope,
of course, it's not true but IF this is the fact it's very serious both on the
side #1 drug spread and #2 nazism against the leftism.
Rinaldo.
--------
At 11.55 13/12/97
EST, Gene wrote:
>I find it
hard to believe that Father Tim had any involvment with such a bogus
>group as the
CIA! but i have learned also over the years that anything is
>possible. on
a more persoanl note- I had many fine experiences on "Orange
>Sunshine"
and cannot honestly say that it destroyed my involvment with the
>Liberal
movement- the bull crap developed and handed down by the movement did
>it for me!
> Gene
>
>To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<4bfd8a2e.3493044d@aol.com>
References:
somebody wrote:
>Gort, Klaatu
nicto borada!
>
>
Slawomir Mrozek,
is a player who wrote a very beautiful collected novel called "the
elephant".
Rinaldo.To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<964e39b0.349304ac@aol.com>
References:
At 16.56 13/12/97
EST, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-12-13 09:30:29 EST, you write:
>
><<
> Slon
> Wydawnictwo
Literackie
> Krakow
> >>
>Gort, Klaatu
nicto borada!
>
i hope you take
seriously this pun as
slawomir is a
serious writer and play writer from polonia. this is all. have a look at him
works they are very fine and subersive against every establishment in the
eastern lands.
Rinaldo.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 12
Mellow Hopes of Paradise
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: <964e39b0.349304ac@aol.com>
References:
amici, a simple
question: in the "L'angelo caduto" (the italian translation of
"Angelheaded Hipster") at page 205 there's a photo titled "La
conferenza dell'addormentato" is this photo in the original Turner's book?
i noticed the "L'angelo caduto" has the bio of some beat performers
just updated to 1997, perhaps the italian editor has added something...
grazie e saluti,
rinaldo.
--------
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Slawomir Mrozek idies regues.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100b0b8617a07d8@[128.125.224.94]>
References:
>>Gort,
Klaatu nicto borada!
>
>
>yeah and
ringo starr and calling occupants of interplanetary craft
>
>
Cellografia
out of this planet
there's the Slon
Zamiatin,
Ilf,
Petrov
Borzecin 1930
To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: flash
back Re: (FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03110708b0ba6e1151a8@[156.46.45.109]>
References:
<7802273d.3492bdfd@aol.com>
"When we
heard about the hippies, the barely more than boys and girls who decided to try
something different . . . we laughed at them. Smug in our certain awareness
that . . . communal life must be more difficult even than nuclear family life,
which we know, to our very nerve endings, is disastrous, we condemned them, our
children, for seeking a different future. We hated them for their flowers, for
their love, and for their unmistakeable rejection of every hideous, mistaken
compromise that we had made throughout our hollow, money-bitten, frightened,
adult lives." ---June Jordan (b. 1939), U.S. poet, civil rights activist.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Ronald
Laing and Michael McClure.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03110708b0ba6e1151a8@[156.46.45.109]>
References:
<7802273d.3492bdfd@aol.com>
"Once Ronald
Laing came in Rome he met Michael and JoAnna McClure. Ronald, everyone called
him Ronnie, was happy of chat with them. When he was drunk he sat down apart
and he chatted in a low voice with Michael McClure."---from an article by
F. Pivano,1979.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
(FWD-excerpt from)Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03110708b0ba6e1151a8@[156.46.45.109]>
References:
<7802273d.3492bdfd@aol.com>
jo wrote:
>I seem to
have have missed something.
>
>What link is
working on such things as "orange sunsihe destroy[ed] the
>liberal
movement...?"
>
>I really want
to archive this thread.
>
>j grant
>
> HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY
BABE ARCHIVES
> Details on-line at
>
http://www.bookzen.com
> 625,506 Visitors 07-01-96 to 11-28-97
>
jo, it's me
rinaldo, i think it's a serious topic the luck of leftism in the western
countries. i was in the 60s & 70s a new leftist activist. i'm perhaps in a
dark-esque stage of life but it's discouraging matter to realize i/(we)
was/(were) manipulated by marionnettistes. it elapsed circa 30year ago but...
democracy is the
background to a beat way of life. let imagine a world where won the nazism and
tell us what it would happened?
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,cawilkie@comic.net
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
leary--CIA????
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34953953.7A97@comic.net>
References:
cathy says:
>Has anyone
ever read "Shrodinger's Cat" by Robert Anton Wilson?
>
>this little
scenario sounds like it was taken right out of that book...
>
>
>cathy
>
>
the issue: please
check this web site:
http://home.dti.net/lawserv/leary.html
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: a Gus
Van Sant movie.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03110708b0ba6e1151a8@[156.46.45.109]>
References:
<7802273d.3492bdfd@aol.com>
hello, it's me
Rinaldo, tonite the italian domestic tv channel rete4 has broadcasted the movie
"Beautiful And Damned" directed by Gus Van Sant (dedicated to Scott
Melloo Nall, Jr.) cast of characters: mike
waters river phoenix
scott favor keanu reeves
richard waters james russo
bob pigeon william richert
etc.
additional
dialogues by william shakespeare and thanks to B-52's.
this film has an
unique feeling mixing the professional images with those 5mm homemade films
(before the cam recorder) to take our soul as a remembrance/dream. the
character doddy carroll mike cotrell seems jack kerouac, and the richard mike
water's death has maybe something to do with the death of Neal Cassady on the
railroad, the freeway as railroad. saluti a tutti from italia.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
visible men
Cc:
Bcc:
rasa@gpnet.it
X-Attachments:
C:\INTERNET\jkeagiph.jpg;
In-Reply-To:
<v03110708b0ba6e1151a8@[156.46.45.109]>
References:
<7802273d.3492bdfd@aol.com>
Allen Ginsberg,
Jack Kerouac (photo)
&
a jk's pome
dedicated to patricia elliott:
ROSE POME by Jack
Kerouac
I'd rather be thin than famous,
I dont wanta be fat,
And a woman throws me outa bed
Callin me Gordo, & everytime
I bend
to pickup
my suspenders
from the davenport
floor I explode
loud huge grunt-o
and disgust
every one
in the familio
I'd rather be thin than famous
But I'm fat
Paste that in yr. Broadway Show
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Walking on the sun
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3499CBC3.5DF22782@scsn.net>
References:
Bentz wrote:
>Hippie chicks
or hypocrites,
>Might as well
be walking on the sun.
(1)
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
(1)
&
leaftlets
dipersed
on the road
the ink blended
with rain &
brown leaves
in an autumn
fog
a lot of years
ago
---
Rinaldo
19thDec97
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the poem
which was written on the memorial card at Hank's funeral service
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3499CBC3.5DF22782@scsn.net>
References:
but they've left
us a bit of music
and a spiked show
in the corner,
a jigger of
scotch, a blue necktie,
a small volume of
poems by rimbuaud,
a horse running
as if the devil
were twisting his
tail
over bluegrass
and screaming,
and then,
love again
like a streetcar
turning the corner
on time,
the city waiting,
the wine and the
flowers,
the water walking
across the lake
and summer and
winter
and summer and
summer
and winter again
--from the poem,
" If We Take"
Written by Charles Bukowski
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:21:28 -0700
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Gerald
Nicosia writes:
>> Attila
Gyensis writes:
>>
>> "...the financial assistance that
I have received from Mr. Sampas
>> amounts
to a grand total (let me check my calculator) $0, nada, zero, nulla,
>> nothing,
zip."
>>
>> May I suggest, Mr. Gyensis, that you
are being a little coy in the
>> matter
of advertisements that have magically appeared in your magazine,
>> DHARMA
BEAT?
>> In the short 3-year history of DHARMA
BEAT, you have received
>> numerous
full-page ads from Viking/Penguin, Mr. Sampas's publisher. Your
>> fall
1995 issue even had TWO full-page ads from Viking. You received a
>> half-page
ad from Rykodisc for a record that was produced by Jim Sampas.
>> You
received a full-page ad for BIG SKY MIND, the Buddhist Beat collection
>> with
which Mr. John Sampas was intimately connected (the editor states: "A
>> special
debt of gratitude is owed to John Sampas, the Literary Executor of
>
>...
>
>The fact that
you would speak like this to Attila Gyenis proves to me
>what you're
doing wrong.
>
>I've hung out
with Attila a few times, and he is one of the sweetest,
>gentlest most
philosophical and non-greedy people I've ever met.
>Furthermore,
the one time I discussed you and your activities
>with him (a
few months ago over some beers after he and I
>attended the
play "Kerouac" together) he was taking your side,
>and telling
me about some of your good points.
You've gone and
>turned
another friend into an enemy! As you did
with me.
>Your tactics
are all WRONG. This is NOT the way you
solve
>problems. Stop bullying people around. You could better
>serve your
own cause with more peaceful tactics.
>
>Recently at a
LaGuardia Airport taxi stand, I saw a great sign:
>"BE
POLITE! IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT, BUT
IT"S MORE IMPORTANT
>TO BE
NICE". Please, Gerry Nicosia, start
going with the flow
>a little
more. Estate battles happen. The world survives.
>Let's talk
about something else. Maybe, to get us
off on
>a different
topic, you could tell us about the Vietnam book
>you're
writing. I'd really like to hear about
it. When do
>you expect it
will be published?
>
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro
Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Beat
and Marriage
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:59:33 -0700
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Bentz wrote:
>> Thanks
and oh yeah, probably it is a bumpy bumpy ride, because two beats
>> should
not marry. They would spin off into a
morass of ADD/hyperactivity.
>
>I've been
married seven years, and this has become a regular cycle by
>now. With some smart scheduling, we can make the
hyperactivity wave
>happen on
weekends and the attention-deficit part on weekdays. It
>also helps me
that my wife can't stand the Beats (keeps us balanced).
>
>That Gregory
Corso poem is the best, too ...
>
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro
Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re: Beat
and Marriage
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:08:02 -0700
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Re: Beat and Marriage
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Jerry Cimino
wrote:
>> My wife
couldn't stand the beats either when we first got married. I think
>> it's got
to do with that "he's gonna run off and sow his wild oats leaving me
>> stuck at
home alone" female thing. Can't
imagine why any woman would think
>> that
about people like Neal Cassady?
>>
>> Now
she's involved in a business where she's talking beat everyday. She
>> really
focused in on the women writers, Hettie Jones, Joyce Johnson, Diane
>> DiPrima,
Carolyn etc and it turned her around.
She especially enjoyed the
>> new
Women & the BG recently released.
>
>Mine is
coming around bit by bit too. She really
likes listening
>to
"Kicks Joy Darkness" (that new Rykodisk CD) for instance, whereas
>I was lukewarm. But that's just because Patti Smith is on it,
I
>think ...
>
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro
Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: long
haiku
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Stifling heat
the people turn the head
to the right & to the left
like the pigeons of the plaza
would u like something
to drink?
[WATER FOR DOGS!]
(i have)
[PHONED HIM
last night]
(but he was)
[DRUNK]
(dog-tired)
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: (fwd)
DIDJERIDOO
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>Subject:DIDJERIDOO
>
>didjerido:
>an
Austrailian Aboriginee (native) musical instrument that
>resembles a
long pipe which the operator plays in the same
>manner as a
tuba or other brass instrument
>that's played
completely differently from a tuba.
>>
>>L=(V/2f)+r
>>L-length
you are gonna want to cut it
>>V=speed
of sound at sea level, which is 340miles/second or 13385.826
>>inches/second
>>divide by
>>2 times
the frequency (f) of the pitch you want
>>add
>>r=radius
of the tube, i.e. 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch
>>
>>I've
gotten the best results from 2" tubing with a 2"x1 1/2" coupling
>>followed
by a 1 1/2x1" coupling for the mouthpiece. Remember to account for
>>the
length of the coupling (mouthpiece) when determining the length to cut,
>>it's
usually about 2 or 3" long. Okay, here's the lengths:
>>Pitch Freq(Hz)
Length
>>G 97.999 69.296
>>G# 103.826 65.463
>>A 110.0 61.845
>>A# 116.541 58.430
>>B 123.471 55.206
>>C 130.813 52.164
>>C# 138.591 49.292
>>D 146.832 46.582
>>D# 155.563 44.024
>>E 164.814 41.609
>>F 174.614 39.330
>>F# 184.997 37.178
>>G 195.998 35.148
>>G# 207.652 33.231
>>A 220.000 31.422
>>
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
DIDJERIDOO
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
didjeridoo:
an Australian
Aboriginee (native) musical instrument that resembles a long pipe which the
operator plays in the same manner as a brass instrument
played completely
differently from a tuba.
>
>L=(V/2f)+r
>L-length you
are gonna want to cut it
>V=speed of
sound at sea level, which is 340miles/second or 13385.826
>inches/second
>divide by
>2 times the
frequency (f) of the pitch you want
>add
>r=radius of
the tube, i.e. 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch
>
>you got the
best results from 2" tubing with a 2"x1 1/2" coupling
>followed by a
1 1/2x1" coupling for the mouthpiece.
>Remember to
account for
>the length of
the coupling (mouthpiece) when determining
>the length to
cut, it's usually about 2 or 3" long.
>
>Here's the
lengths:
>Pitch Freq(Hz)
Length
>G 97.999 69.296
>G# 103.826 65.463
>A 110.0 61.845
>A# 116.541 58.430
>B 123.471 55.206
>C 130.813 52.164
>C# 138.591 49.292
>D 146.832 46.582
>D# 155.563 44.024
>E 164.814 41.609
>F 174.614 39.330
>F# 184.997 37.178
>G 195.998 35.148
>G# 207.652 33.231
>A 220.000 31.422
>
If anyone decides
to build one, let me know.
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: la voce
dei poeti americani ribelli.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
http://194.184.164.48/soleluna/
http://www.soleluna.interbusiness.it/bacheca/bacheca.html
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
http://www.labiennale.it/cgi-bin/biennale/ccine290.htm
http://www.labiennale.it/cgi-bin/biennale/ccine447.htm
http://www.labiennale.it/cgi-bin/biennale/ccine462.htm
http://www.labiennale.it/cgi-bin/biennale/ccine464.htm http://www.labiennale.it/cgi-bin/biennale/eccin227.htm
http://www.labiennale.it/cgi-bin/biennale/eccin244.htm
http://www.labiennale.it/cgi-bin/biennale/eccin280.htmTo:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: DOOM
PATROLS
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
WILLIAM BURROUGHS
by Steven
Shaviro, shaviro@u.washington.edu
(c) 1995 Steven
Shaviro
"Which came
first, the intestine or the tapeworm?" In this epigram, Burroughs suggests
that parasitism--corruption, plagiarism, surplus appropriation--is in fact
conterminous with life itself. The tapeworm doesn't simply happen to attach
itself to an intestine that was getting along perfectly well without it. Say
rather that the intestine evolved in the way that it did just in order to
provide the tapeworm with a comfortable or profitable milieu, an environment in
which it might thrive. My intestines are on as intimate terms with their
tapeworms as they are with my mouth, my asshole, and my other organs; the
relationship is as 'intrinsic' and 'organic' in the one case as it is in the
other. Just like the tapeworm, I live off the surplus-value extracted from what
passes through my stomach and intestines. Who's the parasite, then, and who's
the host? The internal organs are parasitic upon one another; the organism as a
whole is parasitic upon the world. My 'innards' are really a hole going
straight through my body; their contents--shit and tapeworm--remain forever
outside of and apart from me, even as they exist at my very center. The tapeworm
is more "me" than I am myself. My shit is my inner essence; yet I
cannot assimilate it to myself, but find myself always compelled to give it
away. (Hence Freud's equation of feces with money and gifts; and Artaud's sense
of being robbed of his body and selfhood every time he took a shit).
Interiority means intrusion and colonization. Self-identity is ultimately a
symptom of parasitic invasion, the expression within me of forces originating
from outside.
And so it is with
language. In Burroughs' famous dictum, language is a virus. Language is to the
brain (and the speaking mouth and the writing or typing hand, and the listening
ear and the reading eyes) as the tapeworm is to the intestines. Even more so:
it may just be possible to find a digestive space free from parasitic infection
(though this is extremely unlikely), but we will never find an uncontaminated
mental space. Strands of alien DNA unfurl themselves in our brains, just as
tapeworms unfurl themselves in our guts. Burroughs suggests that not just
language, but "the whole quality of human consciousness, as expressed in
male and female, is basically a virus mechanism." This is not to claim, in
the manner of De Saussure and certain foolish poststructuralists, that all
thought is linguistic, or that social reality is constituted exclusively
through language. It is rather to deprivilege language--and thus to take apart
the customary opposition between language and immediate intuition--by pointing
out that nonlinguistic modes of thought (which obviously exist) are themselves
also constituted by parasitic infiltration. Visual apprehension and the
internal time sense, to take just two examples, are both radically
nonlinguistic; but they too, in their own ways, are theaters of power and
surplus-value extraction. Light sears my eyeballs, leaves its traces violently
incised on my retinas. Duration imposes its ungraspable rhythms, emptying me of
my own thought. Viruses and parasitic worms are at work everywhere, multiple
outsides colonizing our insides. There is no refuge of pure interiority, not
even before language. Whoever we are, and wherever and however we search,
"we are all tainted with viral origins."
Burroughs'
formulation is of course deliberately paradoxical, since viruses are never
originary beings. They aren't self-sufficient, or even fully alive; they always
need to commandeer the cells of an already-existing host in order to reproduce.
A virus is nothing but DNA or RNA encased in a protective sheath; that is to
say, it is a message --encoded in nucleic acid--whose only content is an order
to repeat itself. When a living cell is invaded by a virus, it is compelled to
obey this order. Here the medium really is the message: for the virus doesn't
enunciate any command, so much as the virus is itself the command. It is a
machine for reproduction, but without any external or referential content to be
reproduced. A virus is a simulacrum: a copy for which there is no original,
emptily duplicating itself to infinity. It doesn't represent anything, and it
doesn't have to refer back to any standard measure or first instance, because
it already contains all the information--and only the information--needed for
its own further replication. Marx's famous description of capital applies
perfectly to viruses: "dead labor which, vampire-like, lives only by
sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor it sucks."
Reproduction
(sexual or otherwise) is often sentimentally regarded as the basic activity and
fundamental characteristic of life. It's only through reproduction that natural
selection does its work. But look a bit more closely: reproduction is arguably
more a viral than a vital process. It is so far from being straightforwardly
'organic,' that it necessarily involves vampirism, parasitism, and cancerous
simulation. We are all tainted with viral origins, because life itself is
commanded and impelled by something alien to life. The life possessed by a
cell, and all the more so by a multicellular organism, is finally only its
ability to carry out the orders transmitted to it by DNA and RNA. It scarcely
matters whether these orders originate from a virus, or from what we conceive
as the cell's own nucleus. For this distinction is only a matter of practical
convenience. It is impossible actually to isolate the organism in a state
before it has been infiltrated by viruses, or altered by mutations; we cannot
separate out the different segments of DNA, and determine which are intrinsic
to the organism and which are foreign. Our cells' own DNA is perhaps best
regarded as a viral intruder that has so successfully and over so long a
stretch of time managed to insinuate itself within us, that we have forgotten
its alien origin. Richard Dawkins suggests that our bodies and minds are merely
"survival machines" for replicating genes, "gigantic lumbering
robots" created for the sole purpose of transmitting DNA. Burroughs
describes language (or sexuality, or any form of consciousness) as "the
human virus." All our mechanisms of reproduction follow the viral logic
according to which life produces death, and death in turn lives off life. And
so remember this the next time you gush over a cute infant. "Cry of
newborn baby gurgles into death rattle and the crystal skull," Burroughs
writes, "THAT IS WHAT YOU GET FOR FUCKING."
Language is one
of these mechanisms of reproduction. Its purpose is not to indicate or
communicate any particular content, so much as to perpetuate and replicate
itself. The problem with most versions of communications theory is that they
ignore this function, and naively present language as a means of transmitting
information. Yet language, like a virus or like capital, is in itself entirely
vacuous: its supposed content is only a contingent means (the host cell or the
particular commodity form) that it parasitically appropriates for the end of
self-valorization and self-proliferation. Apart from the medium, there's no
other message. But if language cannot be apprehended in terms of informational
content, still less can it be understood on the basis of its form or structure,
in the manner of Saussure, Chomsky, and their followers. Such theorists make an
equivalent, but symmetrically opposite, error to that of communications theory.
They substitute inner coherence for outer correspondence, differential
articulation for communicative redundancy, self-reference for external
reference; but by isolating language's self-relational structure or
transformational logic, they continue to neglect the concrete and pragmatic
effects of its violent replicating force. Both communicational and structural
approaches try to define what language is, instead of looking at what it does.
They both fail to come to grips with what J. L. Austin calls the performative
aspect of linguistic utterance: the sense in which speaking and writing are
actions, ways of doing something, and not merely ways of (con)stating or
referring to something. (Of course, stating and referring are in the last
analysis themselves actions). Language does not represent the world: it
intervenes in the world, invades the world, appropriates the world. The
supposed postmodern "disappearance of the referent" in fact testifies
to the success of this invasion. It's not that language doesn't refer to
anything real, but--to the contrary--that language itself has become
increasingly real. Far from referring only to itself, language is powerfully
intertwined with all the other aspects of contemporary social reality. It is a
virus that has all too fully incorporated itself into the life of its hosts.
A virus has no
morals, as Rosa von Praunheim puts it, talking about HIV; and similarly the
language virus has no meanings. Even saying that language is performative
doesn't go far enough; for it leaves aside the further question of what sort of
act is being performed, and just who is performing it. It is not "I"
who speaks, but the virus inside me. And this virus/speech is not a
freestanding action, but a motivated and directed one: a command. Morse
Peckham, Deleuze and Guattari, and Wittgenstein all suggest that language is
less performative than it is imperative or prescriptive: to speak is to give
orders. To understand language and speech is to acknowledge these orders: to
obey them or resist them, but to react to them in some way. An alien force has
taken hold of me, and I cannot not respond. Our bodies similarly respond with
symptoms to infection, or to the orders of viral DNA and RNA. As Burroughs
reminds us: "the symptoms of a virus are the attempts of the body to deal
with the virus attack. By their symptoms you shall know them... if a virus
produces no symptoms, then we have no way of knowing that it exists." And
so with all linguistic utterances: I interpret a statement by reacting to it,
which is to say by generating a symptom. Voices continually call and respond,
invoke and provoke other voices. Speaking is thus in Foucault's sense an
exercise of power: "it incites, it induces, it seduces, it makes easier or
more difficult; in the extreme it constrains or forbids absolutely; it is
nevertheless always a way of acting upon an acting subject or acting subjects
by virtue of their acting or being capable of acting. A set of actions upon
other actions." Usually we obey orders that have been given us, viscerally
and unreflectively; but even if we self-consciously refuse them, we are still
operating under their constraint, or according to their dictation. Yet since an
order is itself an action, and the only response to an action is another
action, what Wittgenstein ironically calls the "gulf between an order and
its execution" always remains. I can reply to a performance only with
another performance; it is impossible to step outside of the series of actions,
to break the chain and isolate once and for all the `true' meaning of an
utterance. The material force of the utterance compels me to respond, but no
hermeneutics can guarantee or legislate the precise nature of my response. The
only workable way to define "meaning" is therefore to say, with
Peckham, that it is radically arbitrary, since "any response to an utterance
is a meaning of that utterance." Any response whatsoever. This accounts
both for the fascistic, imperative nature of language, and for its infinite
susceptibility to perversion and deviation. Strands of DNA replicate themselves
ad infinitum. But in the course of these mindless repetitions, unexpected
reactions spontaneously arise, alien viruses insinuate themselves into the DNA
sequence, and radiation produces random mutations. It's much like what happens
in the children's game 'Telephone': even when a sentence is repeated as exactly
as possible, it tends to change radically over the course of time.
We all have
parasites inhabiting our bodies; even as we are ourselves parasites feeding on
larger structures. Call this a formula for demonic or vampiric possession. The
great modernist project was to let the Being of Language shine forth, or some
such grandiose notion. If "I" was not the speaker, the modernists
believed, this was because language itself spoke to me and through me.
Heidegger is well aware that language consists in giving orders, but he
odiously idealizes the whole process of command and obedience. Today, we know
better. We must say, contrary to Heidegger and Lacan, that language never
"speaks itself as language": it's always some particular parasite,
with its own interests and perspective, that's issuing the orders and
collecting the profits. What distinguishes a virus or parasite is precisely
that it has no proper relation to Being. It only inhabits somebody else's
dwelling. Every discourse is an unwelcome guest that sponges off me, without
paying its share of the rent. My body and home are always infested--whether by
cockroaches and tapeworms, or by Martians and poltergeists. Language isn't the
House of Being, but a fairground filled with hucksters and con artists. Think
of Melville's Confidence Man; or Burroughs' innumerable petty operators, all
pulling their scams. Michel Serres, in his book The Parasite, traces endless
chains of appropriation and transfer, subtending all forms of communication.
(He plays on the fact that in French the word parasite has the additional
connotation of static, the noise on the line that interferes with or
contaminates every message). In this incessant commerce, there is no Being of
language. But there are always voices: voices and more voices, voices within
and behind voices, voices interfering with, replacing, or capturing other
voices.
I hear these
voices whenever I speak, whenever I write, whenever I pick up the telephone.
Marshall McLuhan argues that technological change literally produces
alterations in the ratio of our senses. The media are artificially generated
parasites, prosthetic organs, "the extensions of man." Contemporary
electronic media are particularly radical, as they don't just amplify one sense
organ or another, but represent an exteriorization of the entire human nervous
system. Today we don't need shamans any longer, since modems and FAXes are
enough to put us in contact with the world of vampires and demons, the world of
the dead. Viruses rise to the surface, and appear not just in the depths of our
bodies, but visibly scrawled across our computer and video screens. In William
Gibson's Count Zero, the Haitian loas manifest themselves in cyberspace:
spirits arising in the interstices of our collectively extended neurons, and
demanding propitiation. In DOOM PATROL, we learn that the telephone is "a
medium through which ghosts might communicate"; words spoken over the
phone are "a conjuration, a summoning." The dead are unable fully to
depart from the electronic world. They leave their voices behind, resonating
emptily after them. The buzzing or static that we hear on the telephone line is
the sum of all the faint murmurings of the dead, blank voices of missed
connections, echoing to infinity. These senseless utterances at once feed upon,
and serve as the preconditions for, my own attempts to generate discourse. But
such parasitic voices also easily become fodder for centralizing apparatuses of
power, like the military's C3I system (command/control/communication/intelligence).
DOOM PATROL reveals that the Pentagon is really a pentagram, "a spirit
trap, a lens to focus energy." The "astral husks" of the dead
are trapped in its depths, fed to the voracious Telephone Avatar, and put to
work on the Ant Farm, "a machinery whose only purpose is to be its own
sweet self." As Burroughs similarly notes, the life-in-death of endless
viral replication is at once the method and the aim of postmodern arrangements
of power.
No moribund
humanist ideologies will release us from this dilemma. Precisely by virtue of
their obsolescence, calls to subjective agency, or to collective imagination
and mobilization, merely reinforce the feedback loops of normalizing power. For
it is precisely by regulating and punishing ourselves, internalizing the social
functions of policing and control, that we arrive at the strange notion that we
are producing our own proper language, speaking for ourselves. Burroughs
instead proposes a stranger, more radical strategy: "As you know inoculation
is the weapon of choice against virus and inoculation can only be effected
through exposure." For all good remedies are homeopathic. We need to
perfect our own habits of parasitism, and ever more busily frequent the
habitations of our dead, in the knowledge that every self-perpetuating and
self-extending system ultimately encounters its own limits, its own parasites.
Let us become dandies of garbage, and cultivate our own tapeworms, like Uncle
Alexander in Michel Tournier's novel Gemini (Les Météores). Let us stylize,
enhance, and accelerate the processes of viral replication: for thereby we
increase the probability of mutation. In Burroughs' vision, "the virus
plagues empty whole continents. At the same time new species arise with the
same rapidity since the temporal limits on growth have been removed... The
biologic bank is open." It's now time to spend freely, to mortgage
ourselves beyond our means.
Don't try to
express "yourself", then; learn rather to write from dictation, and
to speak rapturously in tongues. An author is not a sublime creator, as Dr.
Frankenstein wanted to be. E is more what is called a channeller, or what Jack
Spicer describes as a radio picking up messages from Mars, or what Jacques
Derrida refers to as a sphincter. Everything in Burroughs' fiction is resolved
into and out of a spinning asshole, which is also finally a cosmic black hole.
In Chester Brown's graphic novel Ed the Happy Clown (originally published in
his comic book Yummy Fur), there is a man who suffers from a bizarre
compulsion: he can't stop shitting. More comes out than he could ever possibly
have put in. It turns out that his asshole is a gateway to another dimension, a
transfer point between worlds. This other dimension isn't much different from
ours: it has its own hierarchies of money and power, its own ecological
dilemmas, and even its own Ronald Reagan. The interference between the two
worlds leads to a series of hysterical sexual fantasies, grotesque amputations,
and surreal confusions of identity. But what's important is the process of
transmission, not the nature of the product. That's the secret of scatology:
waste is the only wealth. "Why linger over books to which the author has
not been palpably constrained?" (Bataille). This constraint, this pressure
in my intestines and bowels, marks the approach of the radically Other. It's in
such terms, perhaps, that we can best respond to George Clinton's famous
exhortation: "Free your mind, and your ass will follow." To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: brooklin
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Places/Columbia.html
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/NealCassady.htmlTo:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Apocalypsis.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>>>>From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>>>>
>>>> Are you Mr. Allen Ginsberg?
>>>>
>>>> On of them.
>>>>
>> te1etypEd m3ssag3
>>>From:
B1FF@SCHIZO.ORG (ALAN YOOOO)
>>> ONLY THE TRUTH WIL TRIUMPH OVUR DECEPSHUN +
>>> LAST 4VUR.
>>>
>>From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>>Subject:
(FWd) Who?
>>
>> he had a suitcase
>> & 3 tHree head of lettuce
>> or
>> thr33 headS S
of l3ttuCe
>> th3re is there
is
>> the MAN has a suitcase
>> he must go
>> a far tiny voice
>> you must go1!
>> U must GO11
>>
>> televised or t3l3typ3d
>>
>>
>From: B.
IOANNIS APOSTOLI
> APOCALYPSIS
> 21
>ET VIDI
CAELUM NOVUM ET TERRAM NOVAM.
>PRIMUM ENIM
CAELUM, ET PRIMA TERRA ABIIT,
>ET MARE NON
EST.
>
> Recently discovered 2,000 year-old Gospels
> have revealed that ancient Christianity
> once possessed a secret life-after- death
> doctrine that was based on modern
> scientific principles. Six lost Christian
> documents found among the Nag Hammadi
> codexes discuss a previously-unknown
> description of the afterlife that seems to
> have been specifically modeled on the
> psychological structure of the human psyche.
Return-Path:
<MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug
1997 00:06:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: <MAILER-DAEMON@gpnet.it>
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
Subject: mail
failed, returning to sender Reference: <m0x3qDy-000rNSC@gpnet.it>
|-------------------------
Failed addresses follow: ---------------------|
<orpheus@in.the.shadows> ... transport smtp: 550
<orpheus@in.the.shadows>... Relaying Denied |-------------------------
Message text follows: ------------------------| Received: from rasa by gpnet.it
with smtp using sendmail
(Smail3.2.0.90 #1) id m0x3qDy-000rNSC; Thu,
28 Aug 1997 00:06:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id:
<3.0.1.32.19970828000110.006a0708@pop.gpnet.it> X-Sender:
rinaldo@pop.gpnet.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1
(32) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 00:01:10 +0200
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Donald Allen
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
Paul Blackburn
Robin Blaser
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
Charles Bukowski
William S.
Burroughs { 5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 } William S. Burroughs Jr.
Lucien Carr
Paul Carroll
Louis R
Cartwright
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady { 8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 } Andy Clausen
Gregory Corso
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
Henry Cru
Diane DiPrima
John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
Bob Dylan
William Everson
(Brother Antonus)
Richard Farina
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Charles Foster
Allen Ginsberg {
3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 } John Giorno
Brion Gysin
William Inge
John Cellon
Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Ted Joans
Joyce Johnson
Lenore Kandel
Bob Kaufman
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } Jan Kerouac
Ken Kesey
Seymour Krim
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
Timothy Leary
Lawrence Lipton
Malcom Lowry
Norman Mailer
Gerard Malanga
Edward Marshall
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } John Montgomery
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
Charles Olson
[Black Mountain School]
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Kenneth Rexroth
Hugh Romney
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Hubert Jr. Selby
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Jack Spicer
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
Alexander Trocchi
Anne Waldman
Lewis Warsh
Alan Watts
Lew Welch
Philip Whalen
John Wieners
William Carlos
Williams
-*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
28th august 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
credits to
Richard M.
Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU> OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
David Schwarm
<dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu> -*-
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
Paul Blackburn
Robin Blaser
Bonnie Bremser
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} William S. Burroughs { 5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 }
William S. Burroughs Jr.
John Cage {1912-1992} [Black Mountain School] Caleb
Carr
Lucien Carr
Paul Carroll
Louis R
Cartwright
Carolyn Cassady
Neal Cassady { 8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 } Tom Clark [Paris Review]
Andy Clausen
Gregory Corso
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
Henry Cru
Diane DiPrima
John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
Bob Dylan
William Everson
(Brother Antonus)
Richard Farina
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance] Charles Foster
Allen Ginsberg {
3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 } John Giorno
Morris Graves
Brion Gysin
William Inge
Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
John Cellon
Holmes
Herbert Huncke
Ted Joans
Joyce Johnson
Lenore Kandel
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } Jack Kerouac { 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } Jan Kerouac
Ken Kesey
Franz Kline
Seymour Krim
Tuli Kupferberg
Joanne Kyger
Philip Lamantia
Jay Landesman
Fran Landesman
James Laughlin
Timothy Leary
Lawrence Lipton
Malcom Lowry
Norman Mailer
Gerard Malanga
Edward Marshall
Peter Martin
Lewis McAdams
Joanna McClure
Michael McClure
Taylor Mead
David Meltzer
Jack Micheline
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } John Montgomery
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
Charles Olson
[Black Mountain School]
Peter Orlovsky
Kenneth Patchen
Thomas Parkinson
Nancy Peters
Stuart Z. Perkoff
Charles Plymell
Dan Propper
Kenneth Rexroth
[Berkeley Reinassance]
Theodore Roethke
Hugh Romney
Michael Rumaker
Ed Sanders
Mark Schorer
Hubert Jr. Selby
Gary Snyder
Carl Solomon
Jack Spicer
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
Charles Upton
Janine Pommy Vega
Mark Tobey
Alexander Trocchi
Anne Waldman [St.
Mark's Poetry Project, New York] Lewis Warsh
Alan W. Watts
Lew Welch
Philip Whalen
John Wieners
William Carlos
Williams
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] -*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
29th august 1997,
Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the list of
credits & comments:
Timothy K.
Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Richard M. Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
David Schwarm <dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu> -*-
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Subject:
Beat :List
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug
1997 18:19:53 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net> Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
To: rasa@gpnet.it
Subject: Beat
:List
Rinaldo
More Candidates
Wallace Berman
Jay deFeo
Robert Frank
Bruce Conner
Leonard Cohen
Lenny Bruce
Lord Buckley
Bill MacNeill
Dave Hazelwood
I will keep
adding others, forwarding you list to sa griffin
I may have
duplicated some you already have.
Jim Stauffer
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Sep
1997 17:55:48 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net> Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
To: rasa@gpnet.it
Subject: Beats
Rinaldo,
Forgot to mention
Tom Field, Jack's
favorite painter, belongs in the SF Beat painters of the spicer circle, as does
Bill MacNeill
Did we get Jack
Micheline (SF<LA<NY poet) on this list?
Herbert Huncke?
J Stauffer
Return-Path:
<esaylor@sprynet.com>
From:
esaylor@sprynet.com (Eric Saylor) To: rasa@gpnet.it
Subject: beat
list
Date: Tue, 02 Sep
1997 05:42:05 GMT
Please add
Stephen Jesse Bernstein. Poet, author, beat, suicide in 1992, Seattle WA USA.
Thanks.
Eric
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Return-Path:
<ipl1@columbia.edu>
From:
ipl1@columbia.edu
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 31 aug 1997 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:12:56 GMT
X-Newsreader:
Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
You forgot Larry
Eigner of The Black Mountain School. In
fact, both Burroughs and Ginsberg considered him the best poet of the period.
The Beats used to
stay at his home often in Swampscott, Mass.
On 31 Aug 1997
15:15:23 GMT, you wrote:
>Donald Allen
>---
>Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
>---
>Wallace
Berman
>---
>Paul
Blackburn [Black Mountain School]
>---
>Robin Blaser
>---
>Richard
Brautigan
>---
>Bonnie
Bremser
>---
>Ray Bremser
>---
>Chandler
Brossard
>---
>Lenny Bruce
>---
>Lord Buckley
>---
>Charles
Bukowski {16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski"
>---
>William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
> Frank
Carmody,
> Will
Dennison,
> Old Bull
Lee"
>
>---
>William S.
Burroughs Jr.
>---
>John
Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black
Mountain School]
>---
>Caleb Carr
>---
>Lucien Carr
"Damion"
>---
>Paul Carroll
>---
>Louis R
Cartwright
>---
>Carolyn
Cassady "Camille"
>---
>Neal Cassady
{8 Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty"
>---
>Tom Clark
[Paris Review]
>---
>Andy Clausen
>---
>Leonard Cohen
>---
>Bruce Conner
>---
>Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric"
>---
>Robert
Creeley [Black Mountain School]
>---
>Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
>---
>Jay deFeo
>---
>Diane DiPrima
>---
>John Doe
>---
>Kirby Doyle
>---
>Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
>---
>Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School]
>---
>Bob Dylan
>---
>Kenward
Elmslie [Z]
>---
>William
Everson (Brother Antoninus)
>---
>Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
>---
>Richard
Farina
>---
>Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
> "Lorenzo
Monsanto,
> Larry O'Hara
> Danny
Richman"
>---
>Charles
Foster
>---
>Robert Frank
>---
>James Gauerholz
>---
>Allen
Ginsberg {3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
> Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
> Carlo
Marx"
>---
>John Giorno
>---
>Paul Goodman
>---
>Morris Graves
>---
>Brion Gysin
>---
>Dave
Hazelwood
>---
>William Inge
>---
>Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
>---
>John Clellon
Holmes
>---
>Herbert
Huncke
>---
>Ted Joans
[Jazz Poetry]
>---
>Joyce Johnson
>---
>Lenore Kandel
>---
>Bob Kaufman {
18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
>---
>Robert Kelly
>---
>Jack Kerouac
{ 12 Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
> Leo Percepied,
Ray Smith,
> Jack, Peter
Martin,
> Sal
Paradise"
>---
>Jan Kerouac
>---
>Ken Kesey
>---
>Franz Kline
>---
>Seymour Krim
>---
>Paul Krassner
[Realist]
>---
>Art Kunkin
[Freep]
>---
>Tuli
Kupferberg [Birth]
>---
>Joanne Kyger
>---
>Philip
Lamantia
>---
>Jay Landesman
>---
>Fran
Landesman
>---
>James
Laughlin
>---
>Denise
Levertov [Black Mountain School]
>---
>Timothy Leary
>---
>Lawrence
Lipton [The Holy Barbarians]
>---
>Ron
Loewinsohn
>---
>Malcom Lowry
>---
>Bill MacNeill
>---
>Norman Mailer
>---
>Gerard
Malanga
>---
>Edward
Marshall
>---
>Peter Martin
>---
>Lewis McAdams
>---
>Joanna
McClure
>---
>Michael
McClure
>---
>Taylor Mead
>---
>David Meltzer
>---
>Jack
Micheline
>---
>Henry Miller
{ 26 Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 }
>---
>John
Montgomery
>---
>Shigeyoshi
(Shig) Murao
>---
>Harold Norse
>---
>Frank O'Hara
>---
>David Ohle
>---
>Charles Olson
{27 dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School]
>---
>Peter
Orlovsky
>---
>Kenneth
Patchen
>---
>Thomas
Parkinson
>---
>Nancy Peters
>---
>Stuart Z.
Perkoff
>---
>Charles
Plymell
>---
>Dan Propper
>---
>Kenneth
Rexroth {22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
>---
>Theodore
Roethke
>---
>Hugh Romney
>---
>Michael
Rumaker
>---
>Ed Sanders
>---
>Mark Schorer
>---
>Hubert Jr.
Selby
>---
>Gary Snyder
>---
>Carl Solomon
>---
>Jack Spicer
>---
>Hunter
Stockton Thompson
>---
>Charles Upton
>---
>Janine Pommy
Vega
>---
>Mark Tobey
>---
>Alexander
Trocchi
>---
>Anne Waldman
[St. Mark's Poetry Project, New York]
>---
>Lewis Warsh
>---
>Alan W. Watts
"Arthur Whane, Alex Aums"
>---
>Lew Welch
>---
>Philip Whalen
>---
>John Wieners
[Black Mountain School]
>---
>Jonathan
Williams
>---
>William
Carlos Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963}
>---
>Ruth
Witt-Diamant [San Francisco's Poetry Center]
>-*-
>Hello!,
>i'm listing
the beat generation
>(writers
& painters & performers)
>& i begin
with a list, everyone
>interested
can propose a new name.
>http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
>thanks,
>Rinaldo Rasa.
>31th august
1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
>-*-
>the list of
credits & comments:
>Walter
Campbell <walter.campbell@usa.net>
>Greg Christy <christyg@pcpartner.net>
>Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
>Timothy K.
Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
>Richard M.
Kershenbaum <r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU>
>OHearn <orpheus@in.the.shadows>
>Mike Rice <mrice@centuryinter.net>
>David Schwarm
<dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu>
>James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
>Michael Stutz
<stutz@dsl.org>
>-*-
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beats
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
5.===========*======================
Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep
1997 08:14:47 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net> Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
To: rasa@gpnet.it
Subject: Beat
SuperNova
Or the Beat that
Exploded, or The Beat Goes On
Rinaldo
List looks
great! I printed it out and will add
some more descriptions for you if you want them, also have some questions, some
names that I don't recognize.
Great work.
James
6.==================*===============
Return-Path:
<welch@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep
1997 11:49:47 -0500 (CDT) From: welch@ix.netcom.com (MW)
Subject: Re: the
beats list
To: "Rinaldo
Rasa" <rasa@gpnet.it>
How about Tom
Waits? I'm not sure of your criteria,
but in my mind he would qualify as a latter day Beat, esp if Bob Dylan is on
your list.
Mike Welch
7.=====================*================
Return-Path: <gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com> X-Sender: gleenova@iSTAR.ca
Date: Wed, 3 Sep
1997 14:40:41 -0700
To:
rinaldo@pop.gpnet.it
From:
gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com (Gary Lee-Nova) Subject: Re: Beats:The List update 2
sep 1997
Hi Rinaldo;
How about?:
Mary Beach
Claude Pelieu
Carl Weissner
Jurgen Ploog
Jan Herman
Larry Rivers
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ Gary Lee-Nova * Emily Carr Institute
Of Art & Design * Vancouver B.C. @ @ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->
gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com <-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
SuperNova Beat update 5 sep 97 (Beats:The List)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Willie Loco
Alexander
---
Donald Allen [The
Evergreen Review]
---
Steve Allen
---
Amari Baraka
(Leroi Jones)
---
Mary Beach
---
Wallace Berman
---
Stephen Jesse
Bernstein
---
Paul Blackburn
[Black Mountain School]
---
Robert Bly
[Minnesota]
---
Robin Blaser
---
Richard Brautigan
---
Bonnie Bremser
---
Ray Bremser
---
Chandler Brossard
---
John A. Brownson
[San Francisco Oracle] ---
Lenny Bruce
---
Lord Buckley
---
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" ---
William S.
Burroughs {5 Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997} "Bull Hubbard,
Frank
Carmody,
Will
Dennison,
Old
Bull Lee"
---
William S.
Burroughs Jr.
---
John Cage {5 sep 1912 - 12 ago 1992} [Black Mountain
School] ---
Caleb Carr
---
Lucien Carr
"Damion"
---
Paul Carroll
---
Louis R
Cartwright
---
Carolyn Cassady
"Camille"
---
Neal Cassady {8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968} "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" ---
Tom Clark [Paris
Review]
---
Andy Clausen
---
Leonard Cohen
---
Bruce Conner
---
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" ---
Robert Creeley
[Black Mountain School]
---
Henry Cru
"Remi Boncoeur"
---
Jay deFeo
---
Diane DiPrima
---
Bob Dylan
---
John Doe
---
Kirby Doyle
---
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School, Big Table, Evergreen Review, Mesure] ---
William Duffy
[Minnesota]
---
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School, Experimental Review]
"Geoffrey
Donald"
---
Lawrence Durrell
[Circle]
---
Larry Eigner
[Black Mountain School]
---
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
---
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus)
---
Larry Fagin
[Adventures in Poetry]
---
Richard Farina
---
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti [San Francisco Poetry Reinassance]
"Lorenzo
Monsanto,
Larry O'Hara
Danny
Richman"
---
Tom Field [Spicer
Circle]
---
Charles Foster
---
Robert Frank
---
Jerry Garcia
[Grateful Dead]
---
James Gauerholz
---
Allen Ginsberg {3
Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997} "Irving Garden, Adam Morand
Alvah
Goldbook, Leon Levinsky
Carlo
Marx"
---
John Giorno
---
Paul Goodman
[Growing Up Absurd]
---
Morris Graves
---
Brion Gysin
---
Dave Hazelwood
---
Jan Herman
---
Wally Hedrick
[Gallery Six]
---
John Clellon
Holmes
---
Herbert Huncke
---
William Inge
---
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
---
Joyce Johnson
---
Lenore Kandel
---
Allen Katzman
[East Village Other]
---
Bob Kaufman { 18
Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 } [Beatitude] ---
Robert Kelly
[Minnesota]
---
Edie Parker
Kerouac
---
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz,
Leo
Percepied, Ray Smith,
Jack, Peter
Martin,
Sal
Paradise"
---
Jan Kerouac
---
Ken Kesey
---
Franz Kline
---
Seymour Krim
---
Paul Krassner
[Realist]
---
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
---
Tuli Kupferberg
[Birth, The Fugs]
---
Joanne Kyger
---
Philip Lamantia
[Circle] "Francis Da Pavia, David D'Angeli" ---
Jay Landesman
---
Fran Landesman
---
James Laughlin
---
George Leite
[Circle]
---
Denise Levertov
[Black Mountain School] ---
Timothy Leary
---
John Lennon [The
Beatles]
---
Lawrence Lipton
[The Holy Barbarians]
---
Ron Loewinsohn
---
Philomene Long
---
Malcom Lowry
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Norman Mailer
---
Gerard Malanga
---
Ray Manzarek
[Doors]
---
William Margolis
[Beatitude]
---
Edward Marshall
---
Peter Martin
[City Lights, City Light Journal] ---
Lewis McAdams
---
Joanna McClure
---
Michael McClure
---
Bill MacNeill
---
Don McNeill
[hippie journalist]
---
Taylor Mead
---
David Meltzer
---
Jack Micheline
[SF LA NY poet]
---
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } ---
John Montgomery
---
Richard Moore
[Ark]
---
Jim Morrison
[Doors]
---
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao
---
Harold Norse
---
Frank O'Hara
---
David Ohle
---
Charles Olson {27
dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970}[Black Mountain School] ---
Peter Orlovsky
"George, Simon Darlovsky" ---
Kenneth Patchen
---
Thomas Parkinson
[Ark]
---
Claude Pelieu
---
Nancy Peters
---
Stuart Z. Perkoff
---
Jurgen Ploog
---
Charles Plymell
[North Beach]
---
Dan Propper
---
Kenneth Rexroth
{22 dic 1905-1982}[Berkeley Reinassance]
"Reinhold
Cacoethes"
---
Ron Rice [The
Flower Thief]
---
Frank Rios
---
Larry Rivers
---
Theodore Roethke
---
Hugh Romney
---
Michael Rumaker
---
Ed Sanders [Peace
Eye Bookstore]
---
Mark Schorer
---
Tony Scibella
---
Hubert Jr. Selby
---
Gary Snyder
"Japhy Ryder, Jarry Wagner, Gary Snyder" ---
Carl Solomon
---
Terry Southern
---
Jack Spicer
---
Hunter Stockton
Thompson
---
Charles Upton
---
Janine Pommy Vega
---
John Thomas
---
Mark Tobey
---
Alexander Trocchi
---
Giuseppe
Ungaretti [Circle]
---
Tom Waits
[Foreign Affairs]
---
Anne Waldman [St.
Mark's Poetry Project, New York] ---
Lewis Warsh
---
Alan W. Watts
"Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" ---
Carl Weissner
---
Lew Welch
"Dave Wain"
---
Philip Whalen
"Warren Coughlin, Ben Fagan" ---
John Wieners
[Black Mountain School]
---
Jonathan Williams
---
William Carlos
Williams {17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963} ---
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] ---
James Wright
[Minnesota]
---
Louis Zukofsky
[Circle]
-*-
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa.
5th september
1997, Venice-Mestre, Italy.
-*-
the list of
credits & comments:
Walter Campbell walter.campbell@usa.net David
Christian dckom@atlcom.net
Greg Christy christyg@pcpartner.net
Patricia Elliott pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM Timothy K.
Gallaher gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU Richard M.
Kershenbaum r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU
OHearn orpheus@in.the.shadows
Jym Mooney vmooney@EXECPC.COM
Gary Lee-Nova gary_lee-nova@bigfoot.com Mike Rice mrice@centuryinter.net
randy royal randyr@southeast.net
David Schwarm dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu Eric Saylor esaylor@sprynet.com
James Stauffer stauffer@pacbell.net
Michael Stutz stutz@dsl.org
Tara123125 tara123125@aol.com
(no name) ipl1@columbia.edu
Mike Welch welch@ix.netcom.com
-*-
Addenda comments:
1.=====================================
Return-Path: <randyr@mailhub.jaxnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender
is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com> From: "randy royal"
<randyr@southeast.net> To: rinaldo@gpnet.it
Date: Thu, 4 Sep
1997 16:13:04 +0000
Subject: two
other beats
Reply-to:
randyr@southeast.net
Priority: normal
hey rinaldo. cool
list you have made.
i was just
wondering if you could put john jennon and jim morrison up on your list too.
both have put out a few poetry collections and had a respect for the beats.
morrison wanted to go "on the road" with kerouac. jim morrison ended
his life the same way that jack did mainly by drinking, both became quite fat.
(i know just that doesn't make jim beat.)
don't forget the
obvious grammerical conection between the beatles and the beats.
i just thought
maybe you could add these two guys to your list. i know they seem to be more
hippiesh, but you do have leary and kesey. just a suggestion
randy.
2.==============================
Return-Path:
<welch@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep
1997 12:32:58 -0500 (CDT) From: welch@ix.netcom.com (MW)
Subject: Re:
Beats:The List update 3 sep 97 To: "Rinaldo Rasa"
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Another
suggestion: Steve Allen
Steve was not only
considered to be hip and beat, but he played piano on some of Kerouac's
recordings. Steve encouraged Jack as a
writer, was a big fan, and had him on his TV show "The Syeve Allen
Plymouth Show", NBC. "Readings
from 'On The Road' & 'Visions of Cody' was broadcast Nov 16, 1959.
Mike Welch
welch@ix.netcom.com
http://members.tripod.com/~mwelch/index.html
**========== end
of comments =======**
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The Long
Beach Freeway
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Skip Cross <skip96@postoffice.ptd.net> wrote:
>Yo Rasa:
Great list! But I have to ask... Dylan-Bukowski -HST...Beats?I
>don't think
so. (three of my favorite writers)
I can understand
questioning Dylan and Thompson (though I might argue that Thompson should be
counted because of _Hell's Angels_), but Bukowski?
To me, he is
clearly in. I would like someone to
explain why he keeps being tossed out.
Popularity? Lived in LA? Work was too late?
>Robert Gover
This guy wrote
the _Million Dollar Misunderstanding_, yes?
>John Thomas
>Philomene
Long
>Marvin Malone
Were all of these
guys involved with Wormwood? I don't
know Long or Thomas.
>Do Steve
Richmond
I would count
Richmond in (Bukowski wrote the introduction for _Hitler Painted Roses_, by the
way).
> and Gerald
Locklin count?
Locklin totally
counts (cannot believe I forgot the fantastic author of "The Long Beach
Freeway":
The Long Beach Freeway
(after MacLeish)
And here upon this brazen hill
this hill above the aimless lights
I watch the always going home
the going west into the night
the going towards two-bedroom flats
the going toward the blinding creen
the alcohol the marriage debts
the insane hours in between
the painful clock the cereal
the always sweating late to work
the water cooler pressured meal
the longing for the lonely dark
the lonely driving through the hills
the rock and roll the news the sports
the somnolence of lower speeds
the solitary cigarettes
and here upon a brazen hill
narcotic with the speed of light
I watch the always going home
the going west into the night
>Carolyn
Cassady...Beat sex maybe.
I thought she was
already on the list?
>Leary wasn't
beat..he wasn't even hippy...read Koolade Acid Test.
Leary was a
hippy. I have seen him with 'flowers in
his hair' (which is the only legitimate hippy criteria).
_Acid Test_
brings up Kesey (who was clearly after the beat generation) whose work (particularily
_Sometimes a Great Notion_) shares several themeatic similarities with some of
the better beat novels. I highly
recommend it.
>Please don't
add Tom Waits to the list.
Last Friday, I
saw some Tom Waits movie on Bravo. This
guy is a maniac!
I would agree
that he is not a member of the beat generation - but clearly 'beat influenced';
in fact I think he has some stuff on the Rhino Box (which argues for his
inclusion). I am not that familiar with
his work. Perhaps someone else could
comment?
I also would
really like someone to enlighten me as to why Bukowski is not considered a beat
by so many people.
David Schwarm A taste for marble in a wooden age
41 Southbrook A weakness for the
epic that betrays To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Please
don't add Tom Waits to the list.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
In
<340CB826.CA611199@postoffice.ptd.net> Skip Cross
<skip96@postoffice.ptd.net> writes:
>Please don't
add Tom Waits to the list.
>I love his
music but let's stay focused
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally
disagree. Waits is very Beat. Maybe he wasn't around hanging with Kerouac,
but he's definitely Beat. Listen to MORE
of his music.
I also think
Steve Allen should be on the list.
Mike Welch
welch@ix.netcom.com
http://members.tripos.com/~mwelch/index.html
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: enrico
brizzi(Bologna, 22), jack frusciante e' uscito dal gruppo
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Enrico Brizzi,
Jack Frusciante e' uscito dal gruppo Transeuropa, ancona (c) 1994
ed. Arnoldo
Mondadori S.p.A. luglio 1996
libro scritto a
20 anni, dal romanzo lo stesso autore a ricavato la sceneggiatura del film
omonimo ---
"Comunque, i
Red Hot Chili Peppers prima avevano alla chitarra tale Hillel Slovak,
attualmente morto, a cui era dedicato Mother's Milk, e proprio quella mattina
il nostro roccioso aveva letto su Vox che anche Jack Frusciante era uscito dal
gruppo, adesso.
Jack Frusciante era stato il nuovo
chitarrista della band, per un paio d'anni. Era un tipo magro e muscoloso, sul
metro e settanta. Vale a dire un autentico tappo, in confronto ai compagni,
alias dei classici armadi da spiaggia californiana. Comunque, aveva
acconciature memorabili, lui, taglio a caschetto primi Beatles o testa rasata
con un gran ciuffo fin sugli occhi, perennemente in braghe skate e scarpe da
playground. Era sempre rimasto un po' in ombra rispetto agli altri del
complesso, poiche' il palco dei Red Hot veniva monopolizzato da Anthony, il
vocalist, e dal piu' che coreografico bassista Flea, che nel video di Behind
the Sun compariva vestito solo di un paio di pantaloni fatti di giocattoli-tipo
bambole, cubi e pupazzetti in plastica e peluche.
Non era esattamente un chitarrista di grande
talento, il vecchio Frusciante, pero' faceva quel che doveva fare, si muoveva
nel sound elettrico e liquido della band senza alzare mai gli occhi, senza
fissare la telecamera con aria allucinata come faceva Flea. Alex lo ricordava
in particolare nel video di Under The Bridge, in cui lui suonava l'intro con
una Fender Jaguar, maglione e cappuccio peruviani, davanti a una pacchiana
scenografia western. E adesso, in modo assolutamente inspiegabile, il vecchio
Frusciante aveva abbandonato il gruppo. Adesso che non si trattava piu' di
suonare per due lire nei club di Hollywood o ai festival underground, adesso
che piovevano soldi a palate ed era in corso il tour mondiale. Adesso che
arrivavano il disco d'oro, i Grammy Awards, la fama e la sicurezza, lui se
n'era andato.
E forse, da solo, quel vecchio non sarebbe
stato nessuno, poiche' era ancora troppo poco noto. Dunque, non era stata una
mossa alla Peter Gabriel che lascia i Genesis all'apice della popolarita' per
darsi a una gratificante carriera solista.
Per lui, probabilmente, c'era solo il ritorno
a Hollywood, la droga, forse un nuovo complesso di fama strettamente locale; e
i gestori avrebbero scritto con lettere fluorescenti sui cartelloni dei loro
locali J. Frusciante Former Red Hot Chili Peppers Guitarist, e lui avrebbe
suonato li' mentre la gente fumava senza considerarlo troppo, e forse qualcuno
con una buona memoria si sarebbe chiesto il perche' di una mossa tanto stupida..."
pagg.169-170
---
"Dall'
archivio magnetico del signor alex D.
Leggo Kerouac, e
non mi rompete i coglioni che leggo Kerouac e ascolto tutti i miei dischi...
Dopodomani mattina ce ne serviremo per
penetrare il mistero dell'appartamento sommerso, e al telefono non ci sono per
nessuno, che' leggo Sulla Strada" pag. 199-200
Return-Path:
<58949125@cloaked-email.com> From: 58949125@cloaked-email.com
Date: Mon, 08 Sep
97 00:14:10 EST
To:
Friend@public.com
Subject:
cloaked.com
cloaked.com
here you will
find state of the art mass mailing tools:
a range of mail
servers that cloak the senders id cd-roms of up-to-date worldwide email
addresses opinions on mass mailer software solutions the 'compuserve' anonymous
bulk mailing formula cloaked.com products sample pack
more detailed
information and FAQ on line in 24 hours
cloaked.com
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Kerouac's introduction to Big Sur
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
quoted from
Kerouac's introduction to Big Sur:
"My work
comprises one vast book like Proust except that my remembrances are written on
the run instead of afterwards in a sick bed.
Because of the objections of my early publishers I was not allowed to
use the same personae names in each work.
On the Road, The Subterraneans, The Dharma Bums, Doctor Sax, Maggie
Cassidy, Tristessa, Desolation Angels, Visions of Cody and the others including
this book Big Sur are just chapters in the whole work which I call The Duluoz
Legend. In my old age I intend to
collect all my work and re-insert my pantheon of uniform names, leave the long
shelf of full books there, and die happy.
The whole thing forms one enormous comedy, seen through the eyes of poor
Ti Jean (me), otherwise known as Jack Duluoz, the world of raging action and
folly and also of gentle sweetness seen throught the keyhole of his eye."
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: big sur
- Jack Kerouac died of alcoholism
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Jack Kerouac died
of alcoholism, a baffling disease which afflicts large numbers of people and
for which no cure is known. The notion
that there is something glamorous about this disease is most unfortunate.
Anyone interested
in the vicious descent into physical, emotional, and spiritual breakdown
brought on by this sickness should read Big Sur which contains some fine
descriptions, to wit:
"One fast move or I'm gone," I
realize, gone the way of
the last three years of drunken
hoeplessness which is a
physical and spiritual and metaphysical
hopelessness you
cant learn in school no matter how many
books on exist-
entialism or pessimism you read, or how
many jugs of
vision-producing Ayahuasca you drink, or
Mescaline take,
or Peyote goop up with---That feeling
when you wake up
with delirium tremens with the fear of
eerie death dripping
from your ears like those special heavy
cobwebs spiders
weave in the hot countries, the feeling
of being a bent-
back mudman monster groaning underground
in hot steaming
mud pulling a long hot burden nowhere,
the feeling of
standing ankledeep in hot boiled pork
blood, ugh, of being
up to your waist in a giant pan of greasy
brown dishwater
not a trace of suds left in--The face of
yourself you see
in the mirror with its expression of
unbearable anguish
so hagged and awful with sorrow you cant
even cry for a
thing so ugly, so lost, no connection
whatever with early
perfection and therefore nothing to
connect with tears
or anything...."
pp. 7-8 for starters To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: jk
epilogue
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"EPILOGUE
I think a change
has come in my life and though that'll mean so very little a few years, 10
years, 50 years, 100 years from now, maybe the work that I'll do because of it
will mean a lot and I hope it does - whatever my children, historians, or that
ancient-history worm reads this, I say it anyway, I hope it is true that a man
can die and yet not only live in others but give them life, and not only life
but that great consciousness of life that made cathedrals rise from the smoke
and ricketts of the poor, mantles fall from illuminated Kings, gospells spread
from twisted tortured mouth; or living saints that sit in dust, crying, crying,
crying, till all eyes see."
J.
Kerouac
Aug. 28 - Nov. 25
94-21 134 St.
Richmond Hill,
N.Y.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 80th
chorus
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
SAN FRANCISCO
BLUES
80TH CHORUS
San Francisco Blues
Written in a
rocking chair
In the Cameo Hotel
San Francisco Skid row
Nineteen Fifty Four.
This pretty white
city
On the other side
of the country
Will no longer be
Available to me
I saw heaven move
Said "This is the End"
Because I was tired
of all that portend.
And any time you need
me
Call
I'll be at the other
end
Waiting
at the final hall
Jack Kerouac
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 46th
chorus
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
San Francisco
Blues
46th Chorus
Babies born
screaming
in this town
Are miserable
examples
of what happens
Everywhere.
Bein Crazy is
The least of my worries.
Now the sun's
goin down
In old San Fran
The hills are in a haze
Of Shroudy afternoon--
Bent withered
Burroughsian
Greeks pass
In gray felt hats
Expensively pearly
On bony suffer heads
JK
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Rail
Road jk
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
from RR Earth,
1952:
There was a
little alley in San Franscisco back of the Sothern Pacific station at Third and
Townsend in redbrick of drwosy lazy afternoons with everybody at work in
offices in the air you feel the impending rush of their commuter frenzy as soon
they'll be charging en masse from Market and Sansome buildings on foot and in
buses and all well-dressed thru workingman Frisco of Walkup ? ? truck drivers
and even the poor grime-bemarked Third street of lost bums even Negroes so
hopeless and long left East and meanings of responsibility and _try_ that now
all they do is stand there spitting in the broken glass sometimes fifty in one
afternoon against one wall at Third and Howard and here's all these Millbrae
and San Carlos neat-necktied producers and commuters of America and Steel
civilizations rushing by with San Francisco _Chronicles_ and green
_Call-Bulletins_ not even enough time to be disdainful, they've got to catch
130,132,134,136, all the way up to 146 till the time of evening supper in homes
of the railroad earth when high in the sky the magic stars ride above the
following hotshot freight trains. -- It's all in California, its all a sea, I
swim out of it in afternoons of sun hot meditation in my jeans with head on
handkerchief on brakeman's lantern or (if not working) on books, I look up at
the blue sky of perfect lostpurity and feel the warp of old America beneath me and
have insane conversations with Negroes in several-story windows above and
everything is pouring in, the switching moves of boxcars in that little alley
which is so much like the alleys of Lowell and I hear far off in the sense of
coming night that engine calling our mountains.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: SAN
FRANCISCO, MAY 1993 by ron Whitehead
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:51:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> From:
Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Organization: White
Fields Press
Subject: response to Bloom: exploding the Canon II
SAN FRANCISCO,
MAY 1993
Visited Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Flew to San Francisco
Super Shuttled to City Lights
keys at the front desk
with address and map
Wandered streets Kerouac Alley
Kenneth Rexroth Place
lost for hours
small suitcase
weighed down with
heavy words "The Mask is
the Path of the Star"
Diane di Prima's chapbook
Published in Heaven
Series Whie Fields Press
limited edition of 50 copies
to meet her
and have them
signed
Where is Diane di Prima
on Laguna Haight-Ashbury San Francisco Art Institute "the only
war that matters is the war against the imagination"
and I'm searching for Diane di Prima
Where is Lawrence Ferlinghetti
on Francisco Telegraph Hill North Beach
City Lights' "Poets come out of your closets
open your windows, open your doors,
You have been holed up too long
in your closed worlds..."
and I'm searching for Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Walked Golden Gate
Bridge
holding Nancye's hand
into the wind
Alcatraz and sailboats
one bent
licking the lips of
the Bay waters
and the Pacific sprays
us with tears
of Chinese immigrants
who for forty days
and forty nights have
stood on water
outside America's door
knocking
denied entry denied
Fisherman's wharf seals singing
some burnt out old
hippie screeching
"I am a rock
I am an island"
for spare change from
laughing
lines of tourists from
around the world waiting
for trolley tours
lunch at Fish Alley
hike up Telegraph Hill
what a view but
a statue of Columbus?
is this
is this a Columbus I don't know
about?
the other Columbus?
The San Francisco
Telegraph Hill North
Beach Columbus?
Father Christopher
Columbus of
Our Lady of the
Flowers?
no, Lawrence
Ferlinghetti says
this is THE
Christopher Columbus.
"We tried to
spray paint his
hands red but
PoliceMen
surrounded him all
night
Columbus Day
Eve."
Christopher
Columbus Chief Joseph
Two histories
"Hear me, my chiefs.
I am tired; my heart
is sick and sad. From
where the sun now
stands. I will fight
no more forever." walking up hills bowing to gravity
leaning backward
with my long hair sweeping pigeon shit from the path as I descend the wind and
the descent flatten me and now my muscles are green and yellow and red
pain flavored jello
Caffe
Puccini Caffe Verdi Caffe Trieste
espresso cappucino
Chinatown
fresh fruit and vegetables
the smell of dead animals "whole
schools of fish,"
bulging eyes, "gasping on
counters" whispering
unheard
T'ai chi in the parks on the streets
movement before sunrise speeding speeding
into America
Hong Kong Mutant flu Killer virus
now after noon what do they think of me
walking here what do I look like to them
so different so alike
I want love to
have its way
is their society still as closed as Bruce
Lee found it
in 1962 North Beach and Oakland and
Sacramento like Kudzu Hong Kong money buying out the Italians
buying San Francisco
and searching for Lawrence Ferlinghetti
I crawl through City Lights
so many writers' writings
and Lawrence Ferlinghetti is one
and James Joyce is one
and William Carlos Williams is one
and William Butler Yeats is one
and Walt Whitman is one
and William Blake is one
and Jack Kerouac Allen Ginsberg Diane di Prima Amiri Baraka
John Holmes Herbert Huncke Gregory Corso
Michael McClure
Gary Snyder Robert Creeley Phillip Lamantia William Burroughs
Anne Waldman Ed Sanders
POMES PENYEACH
POMES ALL SIZES
"Street Poetry"
Casting off "the anxiety of
influence"
"the anxiety of
authorship"
"Make IT New!"
"First thought, best thought"
"have an uninterrupted
curiosity"
"writing the mind"
"poet get out of the
inner aesthetic sanctum
where you have too long
been contemplating
your complicated navel"
and as I search
for Lawrence Ferlinghetti
feed the cat and look at photo of Allen
Ginsberg
and
Lorenzo swimming
Julie
why do men still drink wine
and women still water
Daniel Ortega's Minotaur keeps watchful eye
over
apartment stairs and Liberty's mask
like a gargoyle
guards his bedroom
paintings and posters of readings round
the world
cover the walls
TRAVELS IN AMERICA DESERTA on the shelf
Alcatraz in the distance
3rd World Voices monks Ernesto
Cardinal Nicanor Parra
Daniel Berrigan Thomas Merton pierce the world's terrors
chanting
Shelley's "Declaration of
Rights"
"Government has no
rights; it
is a delegation from
several
individuals for the
purpose of
securing their own."
and searching for Lawrence Ferlinghetti I look in A CONEY ISLAND OF THE MIND
and
PICTURES OF THE GONE WORLD
bearing gifts I come
photos of his journey through
Kentucky
standing at Merton's grave Literary Gethsemani
memories of drinking Budweisers
at The Doo Drop Inn
"Nice people Dancing to Good Country
Music"
and I've come bearing gifts
tapes of his reading in
Louisville
jazz between poems
silence
between poems
blank spaces on the walls between
paintings
and My Old Kentucky
Home
is still singing your
song and I'm searching for Lawrence Ferlinghetti
"the one
who'll shake the ones unshaken
the fearless
one
the one without
bullshit"
and walking out his front door
from Bolinas from Lorenzo
from trees
and back roads
he arrives in an
old white Toyota truck
ascetic monk of North Beach
satirical wit ironic humor
wisdom
southern hospitality in San Francisco,
California
handing Lawrence Ferlinghetti his
keys at the end of our visit
shaking
hands saying thanks homage
Super Shuttle to
airport Kentucky
and searching for Lawrence Ferlinghetti
on the plane I read from the book
he signed
"Christ
climbed down
from his bare
tree
this year
and softly stole
away into
some anonymous
Mary's womb again
where in the
darkest night
of everybody's
anonymous soul
He awaits again
an unimaginable
and impossibly
Immaculate
Reconception
the very craziest
of Second Comings."
To Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
Pax
Vobiscum
Ron
Whitehead
on
flight from San Francisco
to
Kentucky
11:33PM
5/24/93 To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Buson
(1715 - 1783) haikus
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Buson:
the cherry blossoms fallen-
through the
branches
a temple
Blow of an axe,
pine scent
the winter woods.
His holiness the Abbott
is shitting
in the withered fields.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beat
supernova 10 sep 1997
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen [The
Evergreen Review, editor, poet, Grey Fox Press] Steve Allen [he played piano on
some of Kerouac's recordings] David Amram [helped Jack with some of his first
jazz poetry readings] Amari Baraka (Leroi Jones)
Wallace Berman
[SF avante garde artist] Stephen Jesse Bernstein [Poet, author, beat, suicide
in 1992, Seattle WA USA] Paul Blackburn
[Black Mountain School] Robin Blaser [poet, critic, associate of Duncan,
Spicer] Richard Brautigan [Change, novelist _Trout Fishing in America_] Bonnie
Bremser [wife of Ray]
Ray Bremser
Chandler Brossard
Lenny Bruce
[comic]
Lord Buckley
[comic]
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" William S. Burroughs { 5
Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 } "Bull Hubbard, Frank Carmody, Will Dennison, Old
Bull Lee" William S. Burroughs Jr.
John Cage { 5 sep
1912 - 12 aug 1992 }[Black Mountain School] Edgar Cayce
Caleb Carr [Son
of Lucien _The Alienist_] Lucien Carr "Damion"
Paul Carroll
Louis R
Cartwright
Carolyn Cassady
"Camille"
Neal Cassady { 8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 } "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" Tom Clark
[Paris Review]
Andy Clausen
Leonard Cohen
[novelist _Beautiful Losers_, songwriter] Bruce Conner [filmaker]
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" Robert Creeley [Black Mountain School,
poet] Henry Cru "Remi Boncoeur"
Jay deFeo [San
Francisco Painter, _The Rose_] Diane DiPrima [Floating Bear, poetess,_Memoirs
of a Beatnik_] John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School, Experimental Review, SF
poet, associate, Spicer, Blazer] "Geoffrey Donald" Bob
Dylan
Larry Eigner
[Black Mountain School]
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus) [Poet, Monk] Larry Fagin [Adventures in Poetry]
Richard Farina
[novelist _Been Down So Long_, songwriter] Lawrence Ferlinghetti [San Francisco
Poetry Reinassance] "Lorenzo Monsanto, Larry O'Hara, Danny Richman"
Tom Field [Spicer Circle, JK's favorite painter] "Larry Meadows"
Charles Foster
Robert Frank
[filmaker]
James Gauerholz
[Burroughs aid and heir] Allen Ginsberg { 3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 }
"Irving Garden, Adam Morand, Alvah Goldbook, Leon Levinsky, Carlo
Marx" John Giorno
Paul Goodman
[psycologist, sociologist, _Growing Up Absurd_] Robert Gover
Morris
Graves
Brion Gysin
Dave Hazelwood
[printer of chapbooks , Auerhahn Press] Wally Hedrick [Gallery Six, husband of
Jay DeFeo] John Clellon Holmes [novelist, _Go_]
Herbert Huncke
[guru to Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs, hustler, _Guilty of Everything_]
William Inge
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
Joyce Johnson
[wife to JK]
Lenore Kandel
[poetess, _The Love Book_ East/West
house, "Ramona Schwartz"] Bob Kaufman { 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
John Kelly [Beatitude]
Robert Kelly
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz, Leo Percepied, Ray Smith, Jack,
Peter Martin, Sal Paradise" Jan Kerouac [_Baby Driver_]
Ken Kesey
[novelist, psychedelic revolutionary] Franz Kline
Seymour Krim
Paul Krassner
[Realist, satirist]
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
Tuli Kupferberg
[Birth, The Fugs]
Joanne Kyger
[poetess, wife (briefly) G. Snyder, girlfriend, Lew Welch, East/West house]
Philip Lamantia [surrealist poet]
Jay
Landesman
Fran
Landesman
James
Laughlin
Denise Levertov
[Black Mountain School] Timothy Leary [chemical revolutionary] Lawrence Lipton
[The Holy Barbarians]
Ron Loewinsohn
[Change]
Gerald Locklin
[poet, _The Long Beach Freeway_]
Philomene
Long
Malcom Lowry
[novelist, Under the Volcano] Bill MacNeill [Painter, Spicer Circle] Norman
Mailer "Harvey Marker"
Gerard
Malanga
Edward
Marshall
Peter Martin
Lewis
McAdams
Joanna McClure
[wife to Michael, poetess] Michael McClure [Journal for the Protection of All
Beings, poet, "Pat McLear"] Don McNeill [hippie journalist]
Taylor Mead
David
Meltzer
Jack Micheline
[SF LA NY poet]
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } John Montgomery
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao [City Light Bookstore fixture] Ken Nordine
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
[poet, _Hotel Wembley Poems_] David Ohle [Burroughs Circle]
Charles Olson {
27 dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970 }[Black Mountain School] Peter Orlovsky [wife to
Allen Ginsberg] "George, Simon Darlovsky" Kenneth Patchen
Thomas Parkinson
[Ark, UC Berkeley Prof, Casebook on the Beat] Claude Pelieu [Bulletin From
Nothing]
Nancy Peters
[partner with L. Ferlinghetti in City Lights, married to P. Lamantia] Stuart Z.
Perkoff
Charles Plymell
[North Beach, hobohemian poet, novelist] Dan Propper
Lou Reed
Kenneth Rexroth {
22 dic 1905 - 1982 }[Berkeley Reinassance, San Francisco Reinassance, Six
Gallery reading] "Reinhold Cacoethes" Steve Richmond [introduction
for Bukowsky] Frank Rios
Theodore
Roethke
Hugh Romney
[Wavey Gravey]
Michael
Rumaker
Ed Sanders [Peace
Eye Bookstore, The Fugs] Mark Schorer [UC Berkeley Prof, critic] Tony
Scibella
Hubert Jr. Selby
[NY, LA Novelist]
Patti Smith
Gary Snyder
[Poet, Reed College group] "Japhy Ryder, Jarry Wagner, Gary Snyder"
Carl Solomon [_with you in Rocklin_]
Terry Southern
[novelist, _Candy_]
Jack Spicer
[poet, associate of Duncan, Blazer] Hunter Stockton Thompson
Charles
Upton
Janine Pommy
Vega
John Thomas
Mark Tobey
Alexander Trocchi
[Living Theatre]
Giuseppe
Ungaretti [Circle]
Tom Waits
[songwriter, Foreign Affairs] Anne Waldman [Naropa Institute, St. Mark's Poetry
Project, New York] Lewis Warsh
Alan W. Watts
[_Beat Zen, Square Zen_] "Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" Lew Welch (Lewis
Barret Welch) { 16 aug 1926 - 23 may 1971 }[_Ring of Bone_, Reed College Group,
East/West House] "Dave Wain" Philip Whalen [Poet, Reed College Group]
"Warren Coughlin, Ben Fagan" John Wieners [Black Mountain School]
Jonathan
Williams
William Carlos
Williams { 17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963 } Clay Wilson
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] James Wright [Minnesota]
Lousi Zukofsky
[Circle]
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: up 11
sept 97 Beat SuperNova.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Donald Allen [The
Evergreen Review, editor, poet, Grey Fox Press] Steve Allen [he played piano on
some of Kerouac's recordings] David Amram [helped Jack with some of his first
jazz poetry readings] Amari Baraka (Leroi Jones)
Wallace Berman
[SF avante garde artist] Stephen Jesse Bernstein [Poet, author, beat, suicide
in 1992, Seattle WA USA] Paul Blackburn
[Black Mountain School] Robin Blaser [poet, critic, associate of Duncan,
Spicer] Richard Brautigan [Change, novelist _Trout Fishing in America_] Bonnie
Bremser [wife of Ray]
Ray Bremser
Chandler
Brossard
Lenny Bruce
[comic]
Lord Buckley
[comic]
Charles Bukowski
{16 aug 1920 - 10 mar 1994} "Henry Chinaski" William S. Burroughs { 5
Feb 1914 - 2 Aug 1997 } "Bull Hubbard, Frank Carmody, Will Dennison, Old
Bull Lee" William S. Burroughs Jr.
John Cage { 5 sep
1912 - 12 aug 1992 }[Black Mountain School] Edgar Cayce
Caleb Carr [Son
of Lucien _The Alienist_] Lucien Carr "Damion"
Paul Carroll
Louis R
Cartwright
Carolyn Cassady
"Camille"
Neal Cassady { 8
Feb 1926 - 4 Feb 1968 } "Cody Pomeray, Dean Moriarty" Tom Clark
[Paris Review]
Andy Clausen
Leonard Cohen
[novelist _Beautiful Losers_, songwriter] Bruce Conner [filmaker]
Gregory Corso
"Raphael Urso, Yuri Glicoric" Robert Creeley [Black Mountain School,
poet] Henry Cru "Remi Boncoeur"
Jay deFeo [San
Francisco Painter, _The Rose_] Diane DiPrima [Floating Bear, poetess,_Memoirs
of a Beatnik_] John Doe
Kirby Doyle
Edward Dorn
[Black Mountain School]
Robert Duncan
[Black Mountain School, Experimental Review, SF
poet, associate, Spicer, Blazer] "Geoffrey Donald" Bob
Dylan
Larry Eigner
[Black Mountain School]
Kenward Elmslie
[Z]
William Everson
(Brother Antoninus) [Poet, Monk] Larry Fagin [Adventures in Poetry]
Richard Farina
[novelist _Been Down So Long_, songwriter] Lawrence Ferlinghetti [San Francisco
Poetry Reinassance] "Lorenzo Monsanto, Larry O'Hara, Danny Richman"
Tom Field [Spicer Circle, JK's favorite painter] "Larry Meadows"
Charles Foster
Robert Frank
[filmaker]
James Gauerholz
[Burroughs aid and heir] Allen Ginsberg { 3 Jun 1926 - 5 Apr 1997 } "Irwin
Garden, Adam Moorad, Alvah Goldbook, Leon Levinsky, Carlo Marx" John
Giorno
Paul Goodman
[psycologist, sociologist, _Growing Up Absurd_] Robert Gover
Morris
Graves
Brion Gysin
Dave Hazelwood
[printer of chapbooks , Auerhahn Press] Wally Hedrick [Gallery Six, husband of
Jay DeFeo] John Clellon Holmes [novelist, _Go_]
Herbert Huncke
[guru to Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs, hustler, _Guilty of Everything_]
William Inge
Ted Joans [Jazz
Poetry]
Joyce Johnson
[wife to JK]
Lenore Kandel
[poetess, _The Love Book_ East/West
house, "Ramona Schwartz"] Bob Kaufman { 18 Apr 1925 - 12 Jan 1986 }
John Kelly [Beatitude]
Robert Kelly
Jack Kerouac { 12
Mar 1922 - 21 Oct 1969 } "Jack Duluoz, Leo Percepied, Ray Smith, Jack,
Peter Martin, Sal Paradise" Jan Kerouac [_Baby Driver_]
Ken Kesey
[novelist, psychedelic revolutionary] Franz Kline
Seymour Krim
Paul Krassner
[Realist, satirist]
Art Kunkin
[Freep]
Tuli Kupferberg
[Birth, The Fugs]
Joanne Kyger
[poetess, wife (briefly) G. Snyder, girlfriend, Lew Welch, East/West house]
Philip Lamantia [surrealist poet]
Jay
Landesman
Fran
Landesman
James
Laughlin
Denise Levertov
[Black Mountain School] Timothy Leary [chemical revolutionary] Lawrence Lipton
[The Holy Barbarians]
Ron Loewinsohn
[Change]
Gerald Locklin
[poet, _The Long Beach Freeway_]
Philomene
Long
Malcom Lowry
[novelist, Under the Volcano] Bill MacNeill [Painter, Spicer Circle] Norman
Mailer "Harvey Marker"
Gerard
Malanga
Edward
Marshall
Peter Martin
Lewis
McAdams
Joanna McClure
[wife to Michael, poetess] Michael McClure [Journal for the Protection of All
Beings, poet, "Pat McLear"] Don McNeill [hippie journalist]
Taylor Mead
David
Meltzer
Jack Micheline
[SF LA NY poet]
Henry Miller { 26
Dic 1891 - 8 Jun 1980 } John Montgomery
Shigeyoshi (Shig)
Murao [City Light Bookstore fixture] Ken Nordine
Harold Norse
Frank O'Hara
[poet, _Hotel Wembley Poems_] David Ohle [Burroughs Circle]
Charles Olson {
27 dic 1910 - 10 jan 1970 }[Black Mountain School] Peter Orlovsky [wife to
Allen Ginsberg] "George, Simon Darlovsky" Kenneth Patchen
Thomas Parkinson
[Ark, UC Berkeley Prof, Casebook on the Beat] Claude Pelieu [Bulletin From
Nothing]
Nancy Peters
[partner with L. Ferlinghetti in City Lights, married to P. Lamantia] Stuart Z.
Perkoff
Charles Plymell
[North Beach, hobohemian poet, novelist] Dan Propper
Lou Reed
Kenneth Rexroth {
22 dic 1905 - 1982 }[Berkeley Reinassance, San Francisco Reinassance, Six
Gallery reading] "Reinhold Cacoethes" Steve Richmond [introduction
for Bukowsky] Frank Rios
Theodore
Roethke
Hugh Romney
[Wavey Gravey]
Michael
Rumaker
Ed Sanders [Peace
Eye Bookstore, The Fugs] Mark Schorer [UC Berkeley Prof, critic] Tony
Scibella
Hubert Jr. Selby
[NY, LA Novelist]
Patti Smith
Gary Snyder
[Poet, Reed College group] "Japhy Ryder, Jarry Wagner, Gary Snyder"
Carl Solomon [_with you in Rocklin_]
Terry Southern
[novelist, _Candy_]
Jack Spicer
[poet, associate of Duncan, Blazer] Hunter Stockton Thompson
Charles
Upton
Janine Pommy
Vega
John Thomas
Mark Tobey
Alexander Trocchi
[Living Theatre]
Giuseppe
Ungaretti [Circle]
Tom Waits
[songwriter, Foreign Affairs] Anne Waldman [Naropa Institute, St. Mark's Poetry
Project, New York] Lewis Warsh
Alan W. Watts
[_Beat Zen, Square Zen_] "Arthur Whane, Alex Aums" Lew Welch (Lewis
Barret Welch) { 16 aug 1926 - 23 may 1971 }[_Ring of Bone_, Reed College Group,
East/West House] "Dave Wain" Philip Whalen [Poet, Reed College Group]
"Warren Coughlin, Ben Fagan" John Wieners [Black Mountain School]
Jonathan
Williams
William Carlos
Williams { 17 sep 1883-4 mar 1963 } Clay Wilson
Ruth Witt-Diamant
[San Francisco's Poetry Center] James Wright [Minnesota]
Lousi Zukofsky
[Circle]
=*=
Hello!,
i'm listing the
beat generation
(writers &
painters & performers)
& i begin
with a list, everyone
interested can
propose a new name.
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
thanks,
Rinaldo Rasa
Venice-Mestre,
Italy.
last update 11th
september 1997
notice that this
list it's my own only responsibility the friends have always gimme the right
way
=*=
the list of credits
& comments:
gordon allen GordonA111@aol.com
Walter Campbell walter.campbell@usa.net C. Dickens
Books email@cdickens.com
David Christian dckom@atlcom.net
Greg Christy christyg@pcpartner.net
Marie Countryman country@sover.net
Patricia Elliott pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM Timothy K.
Gallaher gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU Richard M.
Kershenbaum r-kershenbaum@UKANS.EDU
OHearn orpheus@in.the.shadows
(no name) ipl1@columbia.edu
Jym Mooney vmooney@EXECPC.COM
Mike Rice mrice@centuryinter.net
Jonathan Pickle jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU
David Schwarm dschwarm@sun3.lib.uci.edu Eric Saylor esaylor@sprynet.com
Sisyphus sisyphus@polaris.mindport.net James
Stauffer stauffer@pacbell.net
Michael Stutz stutz@dsl.org
Tara123125 tara123125@aol.com
Mike Welch welch@ix.netcom.com
=*=To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Hot Java
Poetry Reading (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Friday the 13th,
Plattsburgh, NY
Hava Java Poetry
Reading
I sit, surrounded
by men
gentle men
poet men
giving names to
the unnameable
and voice to the unspeakable,
opening themselves up,
using words as scapels.
Transcendental
alchemy
changing blood to ink-
ink filling voids with words.
I sit, suddenly
again the child i never was.
How many years
now lost?
how many fractured fine lines
hold my selves
precariously,
together?
(stifled all
these years,
fearing words would crack me open
only to find an empty shell)
tonight i sit
with these gentle men
whose poems bank the protective fire
which holds us in its ring
and the universe
cracks open
inside my soul:
it isn't just me
inside this ring
it isn't just me
inside this ring,
it isn't just me
inside this ring,
this ring of
blood and fire
the grey smoke of
the fire ring
gives birth
to metaphors stark
and shark naked facts,
as my facts
my metaphors
my grey smoke
rises and merges
with all.
the poems alchemy
begins its work,
changing blood to ink.
a girl of seven,
feet dangling off the floor,
appears in my chair,
all dressed up and no place
to grow.
right now i'm
only seven
and awake long past my bed time
staying up late with boys
inside of poets' pockets.
we speak
of hateful mothers
of hurtful fathers
alcoholism
and winnie the pooh.
no bitterness
remains.
in this charmed circle
this ring of fire
pain exchanged
transmutes itself
in this charmed circle,
this ring of fire,
the alchemy of
blood and pain.
it's bedtime now.
would you tuck me in now,
daddy?
- daddy isn't
here.
would you be my
fathers,
if only for tonight?
mc 6/20/97
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: workshop
with michael czarnecki (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
6/14/97
workshop with
michael czarnecki
plattsberg, ny
etching: in
conclusion
artist: valerie
patterson
In conclusion
you are twelve
years dead,
mother
yet nightly you
rise from your grave
every night,
mother
your face invades
my dreams
wrinkled,
corroded
by years of disappointment
for which you
have always blamed me
there are no
laugh lines
hidden in the creases
of your face
toothless old
crone,
i still fear your bite
in conclusion,
mother
each morning as i rise from my grave
you return to
yours
marie countryman
@mc
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
INTOXICATION (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
INTOXICATION
(for michael and
craig)
clouds burst
and rain down
on poets
wandering in
street
searching for
poetical drink.
suddenly
drenched!
clouds burst!
we laugh and turn
faces up,
mouths open
to drink in the
sky--
leap-frogging
puddles,
laughing
tumbling
shouting
splashing!
until, many
blocks later
we pour ourselves into the car, ending
the best
poetical
drunk
by far.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: on not
writing (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
on not writing
i have not been
writing
i have been
painting
i have not
thought of words,
but rather of
colors, shapes,
blending, edging,
worlds building
on the page
is it sleep
is it dreaming
who is doing the
painting?
landscapes of the
mind
appear regularly
as if
plucked out of
thin air.
no memory
beyond the intent to paint
dreams of eternal
landscape
building word less poems
not asleep
nor waking.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: pear
tree (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
>pear tree
>
>as a child i
climbed
>to safety,
embraced
>by the old
pear tree,
>sitting in
its gnarley
>branches,
>writing pomes
>and secret
thoughts,
>eating sweet
pears,
>their juice
>running down
my sticky
>fingers,
>staining the
pages
>already
wrinkly and wet
>by silent
tears.
>
>during
hurrican'
>season,
>late august,
early septenmber
>when storms
threatend,
>the tree
stood laden with fruit
>over-ripe
fruit,
>and we rushed
about to
>save the
pears, dodging
>yellow
jackets
>drawn to
there sweetness,
>the over-ripe
fruit
>smashed in
ground
>splatterd on
asphalt,
>eating as we
picked and packed
>baskets of
pears
>
>neighbors
rushed to help
>returning
home
>with pears
pears pears
>and
>more pears.
>
>no other
fruit
>has ever been
sweeter
>than the
pears
>of my writing
tree.
>mc (sunday,
april 13,)
>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
PSYCHO-BUREAUCRATIC RANT (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
PSYCHO-BUREAUCRATIC
RANT
RANT against the
psycho-bureaucratic who see only bottom lines
and never the people on the bottom!
RANT against
those who measure out years not by coffee spoons but rather by
counting beans!
by insurance
schemes
and the
gov'ment campaigns to ignore
ALL
who stand in
abject self-affacement, begging for help!
RANT againt those
who blame a child's agony upon the adult survivor who tries
to make sense of a life gone terribly wrong!
RANT against the
damned patriarchal society which denies that fathers (and mothers) do
unspeakable wrongs to
daughters!
to sons!
RANT against the
inexorable, horrible, unspeakable reenactment of abuse through
generations
RANT against the
fathers
RANT against the
mothers
RANT against the
priests the nuns the parents the doctors, the teachers the ones who
have the power to protect but instead
assault
or at best
look the other way!
RANT against
mothers who collude with fathers, stepdads and "uncles"!!
RANT against the
made-for-tv movies which exploit the pain of others just to make a buck!
the evangelists!
the pope!
the cops!
the courts!
the good ole boy networks!
the neighbors who don't want to 'meddle' RANT
AGAINST THE CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE
RANT RANT RANT
RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT AND , RANT!!!
i am RANTING and i will not stop. i
will not allow my fate to be one of SELF DESTRUCTION , SELF EFFACEMENT AND
INVISIBLITY
i will not shut
up, EVER!
I ASK ONLY
WHEN IS ANYONE ELSE
GOING TO SEE AND HEAR WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY?????
when will the
'good citizens' drop the curtains from their eyes and acknowledge
that monsters DO
exist?
WHEN WILL ENOUGH BE ENOUGH????????
when will the
baby predators
the perpertrators
be brought to justice?
some speculate
that this will not happen until hell
freezes over
which, according
to most, is on its way,
sponsored by the
next millenium,
slouching toward
bethlehem to be born.
.
8/26/97
To:
From: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: thinking
about kerouac (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
thinking about
kerouac
or,
spontaneous
sidewalk
what is it with
me, lately?
i keep buying
books.
i'm poor
but would rather go hungry
than be hungry for words.
i want to be a
writer.
i read lots of writers
lots of poetry
lots of prose
lots of writers writing
about writing
and critics who
write about
them,
until i get to feeling like the quaker oats man
who is pictured on the label
holding another quaker box
with a little
quaker man,
holding. . .
you know?
i mean, does he
ever eat the oatmeal?
i throw over my captors,
self-consciouness
and fear,
and break free.
as, up from the
depths of my
inarticulate
soul,
a voice speaks to
me
of kerouac,
word sketches
writ down in moments
of white heat.
now i stop all
thought,
and, suddenly,
finally !
i am left with IT!
jack 's
spontaneous prose
writ
in humble small pad
full of word sketches
novels
poetry
prose
Emboldened,
out i go, tiny
pad in pocket
looking avidly
for
the perfect
poetic moment
to capture in
words,
a
stupendouslyspontaenous
experience of IT
and so, i go, casting
eyes up to sky
and down to
earth
& cement.
i walk quite a
bit,
and then further.
no epiphanies.
my pad begins to
sweat.
suddenly i stop
and discover
that i am
standing
in the midst
of a cheery
hop
scotch
scrawled in
blue chalk.
i had my note pad
ready
to capture it
all,
a frenzy of scribbling
of twilight days.
of summer
mothers' voices on the breeze giving last call for play
with
just
one
more
game
of hop scotch,
marbles, jumprope
kick the can,
giant steps,
played against backdrop
of swooping
clouds
of fireflies
gleaming
in the twilight
gloaming
dirty hands and
sticky faces,
bare feet on dewy
grass...
touch
taste
sight
sounds
alive!
and out on that
sidewalk
i stoop
scribbling
sketched
impressions,
literary
allusions,
and clever turns
of phrase.
i feel like a
real poet now.
i dash home
to fashion
my poem.
i open my
notebook excitedly!
and there,
on the
page,
no words at all,
only the
hopscotch
blocks,
blue chalk
and all.
@mc/517/97
revised 5/26/97
6/1/97
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: to
allen, from a distance (5/26/97 revision) (mc)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
to allen, from a
distance (5/26/97 revision)
allen,
i saw you in my
dreams last night,
forever electrified,
leaping
bowing
singing
and praying
for us
all.
allen, as i slept,
i felt
your great generosity of spirit lay a
blessing on me.
again, in my
dreams,
you are walking
in the supermarket
holding hands with
whitman -
you
are
chanting for peace
while chicago erupted
in the democratic
violence of
1968.
i have before me,
father death,
a photot of your esctatic soul
made manifest by your utter joyful
dancing.
during human be-in, frisco,
67.
today, allen,
upon awakening,
i feel your death keenly.
i go out walking
surrounded by you
- in the leaves of grass,
rising from their
winter sleep
beneath the
melting snow
- in all the cracks in the
sidewalk
-in all
the skies above.
this year i will
plant sunflowers, allen..
today i fare thee well.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: extend
ascii
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
(128)ÇüéâäàåçêëèïîìÄÅÉæÆôöòûùÿÖÜ¢£¥Pƒá¬1/21/4¡""__¦¦¦¦++¦
¦++++++--+-+¦¦++--¦-+----++++++++__¦__ß(225)_¶__µ____ ____±____÷_°•·n²__
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: brecht
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> X-Sender: rinaldo@pop.gpnet.it
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:08:00 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT> Subject: Out of This Planet. Au_er diesem Stern
(bertolt brecht) To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Au_er diesem Stern
Au_er diesem Stern, dachte ich, ist
nichts und er
Ist so verw|stet.
Er allein ist unsere Zuflucht und die
Sieht so aus.
-- BERTOLT BRECHT
Out of this
planet, I thought, there is not nothing, and it is so desolate.
It is our
shelter, and this
That is the way
it is.
Der Rauch
Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.
Vom Dach steigt Rauch.
Fehlte er
Wie trostlos dann wdren
Haus, Bdumen und See.
-- BERTOLT BRECHT
The small house
among to the trees on the lake.
>From the roof
climbs the smoke.
If there is not
smoke
house, trees and
lake would be dismal.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: kerouac
prose and be bop
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
In article
<01bcc017$69320d80$a31401cf@blah.nash.tds.net>, "Sarah
Christians" <slc@acquiesce.org> wrote:
> As for his just
sitting down and writing, what you are referring to as
> 'wild form,'
Kerouac called it Spontaneous Bop Prosody.
The artist Ed
> White
suggest to Kerouac that he "write as if he were sketching--
> responding,
that is, immediately and directly to his subject and putting
> down the
words as quickly as they came to his mind." Thus, the beginnings
> of
spontaneous prosody. The "bop"
was added when Kerouac describing his
> writing as
"blowing," similar to that of a jazz soloist.
neato says:
this is not
"exactly" correct (what is?)...while it is true that ed white
suggested kerouac do "word sketches", this is in relation to the
carrying of notebooks around with which to write in...white used a similar
approach himself for sketching architecture..the idea of kerouac making quick
sketches into his notebook while "in the field" is seen to no better
effect than in his -manhattan sketches-...kerouac literally writing down
anything that came to him while actually sitting amidst it..comparable to van
gogh taking his canvas out into the fields to paint as opposed to making a
mental picture and later "re"painting it in his studio(room)..
kerouac wrote:
"i got my
idea for spontaneous prose from from letters from cassady"
...this is the
technique whereby the writer pours his ideas out in an almost unconcious stream
without regard for "all that crap craft business"(kerouac)...it is
spontaneous and often fueled by some kind of stimulant (drugs,
caffeine,drink,sleep deprivation,music) to create an enlightened state...some
refer to it as making contact with the lady or the muse...it is however far
different from the sketching process in that it circumvents the senses and
tries to get down as quickly as possible the furious outpourings of the
mind..it is however still a reconstruction of events (however spontaneous) as
opposed to the "in the moment" aspect of the sketches
cheers
all my mistakes were once acts of genius
neato@pipeline.com
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: carl
solomon
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
carl solomon
(friend of ginsberg's, worked at ace books)
William S
Schofield <wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU> wrote: I remember reading an interview with
Carl Solomon in which he spoke about his trip to France before(i'm presuming)
his stint in the asylum with ginsberg -- in this article solomon wrote of
discovering Artaud (this man more than anyone went WAY beyond any
"normal" or acceptable limit) and all the literature of the surrealists
and their fringe expatriots -- To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: beat
list
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
hello robert,
i've placed the
list on the Web at the following address (with photos of some beats)
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
Terry Southern is
already in the list,
thanks for your
support, i love that
friends
collaborate with opinions at
the growing of
the list,
have i your
permission to include yr
name in
comments&credits?
ciao da Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy.
rinaldo@gpnet.it
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Robert Davison
<davison@tyco.net.au> wrote in article
<01bcbdf1$2a9977c0$81ee14cb@sirius.tyco.net.au>...
>
> What about
Terry Southern? Seams to me he was more of a "beat" than the
> likes of
Kenneth Patchen or Norman Mailer.
>
> Southern is
best known for his work on the screenplays, "Dr. Strangelove,
> Or How I
Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb" and "Easy Rider, but
> he's also an
accomplished writer of short stories, novels and errr...
> assorted
other things.
>
> Although not
really associated with the Beats in the mind of the public,
> Southern
came to prominence in roughly the same era and often wrote about
> similar
things: jazz musicians, hipsters, drugs etc. He worked with William
> S. Burroughs
on the "Junky" film project, which never really got off the
> ground...
>
> If you want
to check out Terry Southern, see if you can find his "Red Dirt
> Marijuana
and Other Tastes" collection - some really great, witty stuff in
> there...
>
> Robert
Davison
>
>
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted"
> - Hassan I Sabbah
>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
What about Terry
Southern? Seams to me he was more of a "beat" than the likes of
Kenneth Patchen or Norman Mailer.
Southern is best
known for his work on the screenplays, "Dr. Strangelove, Or How I Learned
to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb" and "Easy Rider, but he's also an
accomplished writer of short stories, novels and errr...
assorted other
things.
Although not
really associated with the Beats in the mind of the public, Southern came to
prominence in roughly the same era and often wrote about similar things: jazz
musicians, hipsters, drugs etc. He worked with William S. Burroughs on the
"Junky" film project, which never really got off the ground...
If you want to
check out Terry Southern, see if you can find his "Red Dirt Marijuana and
Other Tastes" collection - some really great, witty stuff in there...
Robert Davison
"Nothing is
true. Everything is permitted"
- Hassan I Sabbah To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: alan
watts
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Glossary entry
for
Watts, Alan
Wilson
<Picture: Van
home page><Picture: Van glossary index>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Picture>Alan
Watts (1915-1973): philosopher, author, lecturer, teacher, became well known in
the 1960s as a pioneer in bringing Eastern philosophy to the West. Through his
numerous books and public lectures on the psychology and philosophy of
religion, Watts went on to captivate a worldwide audience of millions and to
become known as one of the most original interpreters of oriental philosophy in
general, and of Zen Buddhism in particular. Cloud-Hidden, Whereabouts Unknown:
A Mountain Journal is the title of one of Watts' books (ISBN 0394482530),
published by Pantheon in 1973.
According to
Alan's son, Mark Watts, Van and Alan were great friends. When asked by Van list
member Dweller2, Mark said, "Yes, I remember Van coming to visit and the
two of them laughing and having a great time." Apparently you can get a
catalog of Alan Watts' tapes by contacting
The Electronic
University
PO Box 2309
San Anselmo, CA
USA 94979
Telephone:
1-800-969-2887
More information
available at:
•The Mystic Fire
website has a page on Alan Watts •http://www.intac.com/~dimitri/dh/watts.html -
this page includes a bibliography •Digests from the Alan Watts Mailing List are
available online too.
Van references
in:
•"Alan Watts
Blues" (on Poetic Champions Compose)
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: van
morrison
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
<Picture:
Poetic Champions Compose cover>
Van Morrison song
lyrics:
Poetic Champions
Compose album
<Picture: Van
home page><Picture: Van lyrics index>
•The Mystery
•Queen of the Slipstream •I Forgot That Love Existed •Sometimes I Feel Like a
Motherless Child •Someone Like You •Alan Watts Blues •Give Me My Rapture •Did
Ye Get Healed?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mystery
Let go into the
mystery
Let yourself go
You've got to
open up your heart
That's all I know
Trust what I say
and do what you're told Baby, and all your dirt will turn
Into gold
Let go into the
mystery
Let yourself go
And when you open
up your heart
You get everything
you need
Baby there's a
way and a mystic road
You've got to
have some faith
To carry on
You've got to
open up your heart
To the sun
You know he's
looking out for you
'Cause he's the
one
Let go into the
mystery
Let yourself go
There is no other
place to be
Baby this I know
You've got to
dance and sing
And be alive in
the mystery
And be joyous and
give thanks
And let yourself
go
I saw the light
of ancient Greece
Towards the One
I saw us standing
within reach
Of the sun
Let go into the
mystery of life
Let go into the
mystery
Let go into the
mystery
Let yourself go
You've got to
open up your arms
To the sun
You know you've
got so many charms
It's just begun
Trust what I say
and do
What you're told
And surely all
your dirt will turn into gold
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Queen of the Slipstream
You're the Queen
of the slipstream
With eyes that
shine
You have crossed
many waters to be here You have drank of the fountain of innocence And
experienced the long cold wintry years.
There's a dream
where the contents are visible Where the poetic champions compose
Will you breathe
not a word of this secrecy, and Will you still be my special rose?
Bridge
Goin' away far
across the sea
But I'll be back
for you
Tell you
everything I know
Baby everything
is true
Will the blush
still remain
On your cheeks my
love
In the light
always seen
In your head?
Gold and sliver
they placed
At your feet my
dear
But I know you
chose me.
Instead
Goin' away...
etc.
You're the Queen
of the slipstream
I love you so
You have crossed
many waters to be here And you drink at the fountains of innocence And
experienced, you know very well
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Forgot That Love Existed
I forgot that
love existed troubled in my mind.
Heartache after
heartache, worried all the time.
I forgot that
love existed
Then I saw the
light
Everyone around
me make everything alright.
Oh, oh Socrates
and Plato they
Praised it to the
skies.
Anyone who's ever
loved
Everyone who's
ever tried.
If my heart could
do my thinking
And my head begin
to feel
I would look upon
the world anew
And know what's
truely real.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child
Sometimes I feel
like a motherless child Sometimes I feel like a motherless child Sometimes I
feel like a motherless child Long way from my home
Sometimes I wish
I could fly
Like a bird up in
the sky
Oh, sometimes I
wish I could fly
Fly like a bird
up in the sky
Sometimes I wish
I could fly
Like a bird up in
the sky
Closer to my home
Motherless
children have a hard time
Motherless
children have-a such a hard time Motherless children have such a really hard
time A long way from home
Sometimes I feel
like freedom is near
Sometimes I feel
like freedom is here
Sometimes I feel
like freedom is so near But we're so far from home
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone Like You
I've been
searching a long time
For someone
exactly like you
I've been
travelling all around the world Waiting for you to come through.
Someone like you
makes it
All worth while
Someone like you
keeps
Me satisfied.
Someone exactly
Like you.
I've been
travellin' a hard road
Lookin' for
someone exactly like you
I've been
carryin' my heavy load
Waiting for the
light to come
Shining through.
Someone like you
makes it
All worth while
Someone like you
keeps
Me satisfied.
Someone exactly
Like you.
I've been doin'
some soul searching
To find out where
you're at
I've been up and
down the highway
In all kinds of
foreign lands
Someone like
you... etc.
I've been all
around the world
Marching to the
beat of a different
Drum.
But just lately I
have
Realised
The best is yet
to come.
Someone like
you... etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Watts Blues
Well I'm taking
some time with my quiet friend Well I'm takin' some time on my own.
Well I'm makin'
some plans for my getaway There'll be blue skies shining up above When I'm
cloud hidden
Cloud hidden
Whereabouts
unknown
Well I've got to
get out of the rat-race now I'm tired of the ways of mice and men
And the empires
all turning into rust again.
Out of everything
nothing remains the same That's why I'm cloud hidden
Cloud hidden
Whereabouts
unknown
Bridge
Sittin' up on the
mountain-top in my solitude Where the morning fog comes rollin' in
Just might do me
some good.
Well I'm waiting
in the clearing with my motor on Well it's time to get back to the town again
Where the air is sweet and fresh in the countryside Well it won't be long
before I get back here again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give Me My Rapture
There are strange
things happening every day I hear music up above my head
Fill me up with
your wonder
Give me my
rapture today.
Let me
contemplate the presence so divine Let me sing all day and never get tired Fill
me up from your loving cup
Give me my
rapture.
Won't you guide
me through the dark night of the soul That I may better understand your way
Let me be just
and worthy to receive
All the blessings
of the Lord into my life.
Let me purify my
thoughts and words and deeds That I may be a vehicle for thee
Let me hold to
the truth in the darkest hour Le me sing to the glory of the Lord.
Give me my
rapture today.
Repeat...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Ye Get Healed
I wanna know did
you get the feelin'?
Did you get it
down in your soul?
I wanna know did
you get the feelin'?
And did the
feelin' grow?
Sometimes, when
the spirit moves me
I can do many
wondrous things
I wanna know when
the spirit moves you
Did ye get
healed?
I begin to
realise
It manifest in my
life
In oh, so many
ways
Every day I wanna
talk about it
And walk about it
Everyday I wanna
be closer
I wanna know did
you get the feelin'?
Did you get it
down in your soul?
I wanna know did
you get the feelin'?
Did ye get
healed?
I begin to
realise
Magic in my life
See it manifest
in oh, so many ways
Every day is
gettin' better and better
I wanna be daily
walking close
It gets stronger
when you get the feelin' When you get it down in your soul
And it makes you
feel good
And it makes you
feel whole
When the spirit
moves you
And it fills you
through and through
Every morning and
at the break of day
Did ye get
healed?
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: grande
lista beat
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
June 3, Allen's
72nd birthday, which we can celebate in his absence.
So far, the
membership of THE ALLEN GINSBERG MEMORIAL COMMITTEE consists =
of upwards of 125
names, including the following:
Amiri Baraka,
Chairman
Eugene Brooks, Honorary
Member
Connie Brooks,
Honorary Member
Ann Brooks,
Honorary Member
Edith Ginsberg,
Honorary Member
David Amram,
Robert Frank, Michael McClure, George Plimpton, Aram Saroyan=
, Charlie
Rothchild, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Bob Rosenthal, Jim Ragan, Alf=
red Leslie, Ed
Adler, Robert Creeley, Anne Waldman, Gary Snyder, Yoko Ono=
, Ed Sanders, Ann
Charters, Robert Viscusi, Bob Fass, Eric Drooker, Tuli =
Kupferberg, Larry
Sloman, St. Clair Bourne, Kinky Friedman, John Tytell, =
Chris Felver,
Joseph Grant, John Perry Barlow, Andrei Voznesensky, Richar=
d Cammarieri,
Jonathan Lim, Fred McDarrah, Kurt Vonnegut, Rosebud Pettet,=
John Zacherle, Barry Feinstein, David
Stanford, Levi Asher, Lillian Davi=
s, Pete Hamill,
David Greenberg, Danny Schechter, Robert A. Sobieszek, Ge=
rry Goffin,
Barney Rosset, Hettie Jones, Jerry Wexler, Jerome Rothenberg,=
Danny Shot, Arnold Weinstein, Janine Vega,
Robert Lavigne, Joel Dorn, Bi=
ll Gargan, Jimmy
Lyons, Quincy Troupe, Charley Plymell, Pamela Beach Plym=
ell, Ed Dorn,
Ellis Paul, Brigid Murnaghan, Hiro Yamagata, Kevin Moore, G=
eorge Reed, Latif
(William) Harris, Dennis Hopper, Johnny Depp, Joyce Joh=
nson, Brett
Aronowitz Luke, Ray Bremser, Brenda (Bonnie Bremser) Fraser, =
Jules Feiffer,
Leonard Cohen, Oscar Janiger, Kathleen Delaney Janiger, Pa=
ul Krassner,
Arthur Perley. Attila Gyenis, Morris Dickstein, Taylor Mead,=
Diane DiPrima, John Sampas, Gerald Nicosia,
Steve Cannon, John Sinclair,=
Ted Joans, Art D'Lugoff, Ahmet Ertegun,
Fernando Rendon, Gloria Cavatal,=
Marcus Williamson, Kenneth Koch, Birgitta
Jonsdottir, Hayes Greenfield, =
Merilene Murphy,
Peter Hale, Pavel Grushko, Kirill P. Grushko, Toni Morri=
son, John
Ashbery, Sam Shepard, Michael Dean Odin Pollock, Mary Rudge, Go=
zo Yoshimasu, Ken
Kesey, Ken Babbs, Jonas Mekas, Peter Coyote, Ide Hintze=
, George Krevsky,
Dennis Gould, Bernard Kops, Irving Rosenthal, Paul Nels=
on, George
Aguilar, Krishna Fells, Lucas Gutierrez, Andrew Matovich, Heat=
her Haley, Jean
Portante, E. Ethelbert Miller, Andrea Thompson, Ken Sherm=
an, Dave and Ana
Christy, Barbara Read, Theodore Wilentz, David Gascoyne,=
Regina Weinrich, Kevin Ring, Robin Blaser,
Carl Hanni, Ron Whitehead, Pi=
-Oh, Philip
Salom, Dr. Maya Angelou, Sharon Levy, Kathy Acker, Philip Wha=
len.
Still awaiting
positive responses from the following, all of whom have be=
en contacted:
Bob Dylan, John
Eastman, Paul McCartney, Linda McCartney, Neil Aspinall, =
Ron Delsener,
George Harrison, John Wieners, Ishmael Reed, Bruce Springst=
een, Lew Lapham,
Howard Stern, Don Imus, Tom Friedman, Frank Rich, Sally =
Grossman, Liz
Smith, Richard Goldstein, Joanne Kyger, Sara Dylan, Richie =
Havens, Joel
Siegal, Andrew Wylie, Ted Koppel, Cecil Taylor, Scott Muni, =
Sterling Lord,
Brian Hamill, Miguel Agarin, Brice Marden, Jack Newfield, =
Henry Stern,
Hunter Thompson, Carolyn Cassady, Norman Mailer, Lisa Philli=
ps, Richard Gere,
James Grauerholz, Jim Dickson, Ornette Coleman, George =
Soros, Lita
Hornick, Jack Micheline, Felipe Feliciano, Don Allen, Lew Wel=
ch, Daisy Aldan,
Barbara Guest, Gwendolyn Brooks, Ntozake Shange, Larry R=
ivers, Archie
Shepp, Odetta Gordon, Jonathan Williams, Vaclav Havel, Jaap=
Blonk, Michael Horovitz, Miriam Patchen, Grace
Paley, Peter Orlovsky, Go=
rdon Ball, Howard
Hart, Patti Smith, Ani Di Franco, Megas, Dirk Gortler, =
Bill Morgan, Lee
Ranaldo, Bono, Theo Dorgan, Bob Holman, Rand Ragusa.
Still to be
contacted:
Yevgeny
Yevtushenko, Jose Angel Figueroa, Sarah Wright, Country Joe McDon=
ald, Marion
Brown, John Giorno, Gil Sorentino, Hubert Selby, Mrs. Bob Kau=
fman, Lou Reed,
Gelek Rintoche, Barry Miles, Michael Horovitz, Esteban Mo=
ore, Gonzalo
Rojas, Ersi Sotiropoulou, Haroldo de Campos, Tony Harrison, =
Mazisi Kunene,
Lauri Anderson, Rickie Lee Jones, Tom Waites, Joe Strummer=
=2E
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: standing
on the highway
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Return-Path:
<csd@bodley.ox.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep
1997 16:04:25 +0100
From: Charles
Davis <csd@bodley.ox.ac.uk> Reply-To: csd@bodley.ox.ac.uk
Organization:
Bodleian Library
Newsgroups:
alt.music.lyrics
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Standing in the door way ? Standing on the highway
Is this what you
want or is this a different tune ?
STANDING ON THE
HIGHWAY
(Words and Music by Bob Dylan)
1962, 1965 Music Corp. of
America, Inc.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to bum a ride, tryin' to
bum a ride,
Tryin' to bum a ride.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to bum a ride, tryin' to
bum a ride,
Tryin' to bum a ride.
Nobody seem to know me,
Everybody pass me by.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to hold up, tryin' to
hold up,
Tryin to hold up and be brave.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to hold up, tryin to hold
up and be brave.
One roads goin' to the bright
lights,
The others goin' down to my
grave.
Well, I'm lookin' down at two
card,
They seem to be handmade.
Well, I'm lookin' down at two card,
They seem to be handmade.
One looks like it's the ace of
diamonds,
The other looks like it is the
ace of spades.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Watchin' my life roll by.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Watchin' my life roll by.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Tryin' to bum a ride.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Wonderin' where everybody went,
wonderin' where everybody went,
Wonderin' where everybody went.
Well, I'm standin' on the
highway
Wonderin' where everybody went,
wonderin' where everybody went,
Wonderin' where everybody went.
Please mister, pick me up,
I swear I ain't gonna kill
nobody's kids.
I wonder if my good gal,
I wonder if she knows I'm here,
Nobody else seems to know I'm
here.
I wonder if my good gal,
I wonder if she knows I'm here,
Nobody else seems to know I'm
here.
If she knows I'm here, Lawd,
I wonder if she said a prayer.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
JK:meanwhile I began going to Frisco more often...
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970923112226.0069d710@pop.pipeline.com>
References:
"Several
times I went to San Fran with my gun and when a queer approached me in a bar
john I took out the gun and said, 'Eh? Eh? What's that you say?' He bolted.
I've never understood why I did that; I knew queers all over the country. It
was just the loneliness of San Francisco and the fact that I had a gun. I had
to show it to someone." ---Jack Kerouac, "On the Road", 11.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Amato
poem Obit. for Poet
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<v03020901b04e77ee4469@[172.20.15.94]>
References:
<3.0.1.32.19970923184450.006895f8@pop.gpnet.it>
At 13.56 24/09/97
+0200, you wrote:
>Rinnie,
>
>You have
quite a list, i'll tell 'ya alright....
>about Louis
Zukofsky, I'm reading A and also have a companion
>piece to it,
i forget by who, tonite i'll check it for you...
>
>....i have a
poem for you if you'd like to post it on your site:
>
>--------------------
> Obit. for
Poet
>(too late to
Spell Czech)
>
> Made of paradises extra-vagrant,
>tho the
weight of your shadow is still
>part of time
... I see it
>tied to the
sky - night tossing, loosing
>charring
ropes ... logos of Mad. Ave like long black silky
>roads thru
her mourning sex drive - he roars to her.
>
> dead poets. dew you undress the rose
> picking with two hands yore nose
> red-healed stems, ready for prose beds.
>
>without
radiation I cannot believe you renewed the eath's scorched mind
>without
tradition the new or nude dies in air-unconditioned for sunrises,
>ad vents
>of neon-poets
on unfocused horizon.
>
>You timed the
contractions between our cold-aged birth
>and hear bees
for their loyal non-abandon. when you faced
>the wind
naked, taut amphibrachs: remember
>how you
sharing love
>learnt us in
november beds
>just not for
taking
> But giving head to the sky is
> our ego on its back asking to please
>pleas me too,
prays you tall river.
>
>each frays
ewe rote wood be maid to wine
>
>your spine of
this book from epicenter you hallowed mine
>to voluminous
health,
>I, column, I
in rose and brae hillsides, slopes of your wealth
>live in roped
pearls, roped pearls sew
>with knot
bringing a tier glad den eye trust too bee a jewel, I know
>
>dead poets
who fumed, next doors
>on uni-verse
in the daily motion unwritten
>in sidereal
time underwears about stellar web storm,
>
>SAME OLD
PRESS RELEASE:
>Tie-Died,
Wash., Aug. '69.
> the mini-lives move along the super-dead,
> right the Modern Reader in a prose-down,
tie-
> breaker slam dunk poet-tree jam, free the
poets
> from fiscal misses, pick their pockets
with thank
> you very, very much and boca raton
book-of-the-
> month club teas and drunken verses in the
genus
> of microphoney - the first naked lady in
history
> of podium domes is agent who lost half a
day's
> pay purrs you should be proud witch won
hue red
> with propensity for head in juries
struggling
> for their lawn chairs . . .
>
>DEAD OR
MISSING. Forced into the carnivore guild
>by the
hominids in the literary cradle of humanity, took
>in by the
toothy plains of the hungry female, panthera
>of his
instincts,
>
>when
retirement came like a helmet early in your twenties
>traveling in
preventive alleys, stoned circuitry full
>of spider
poems full on Dutch courage with eyes
>you wished in
the front of your head
>to see where
you bent - look
>where you
turn
>from kings,
>give frog
>wings
>trees.
>
>you've seen
our dreams
>in mornings
women master
>in great
camps of sleep
>
>. . . seen
>Jupiter's
sixteen-mooned
>icy
juggernauts chronicling the pockmarked
>and
ruthlessly sacrificed stern of our milky-eyed galaxy,
>weighed our petulant
gravity and soul-are systems you salvoed
>thru our
atmosphere in degrees
> webs spread out
> in conditional wavelenghts
>thru
pandemic conjunctions
> and vast
>liguids of
magnetic earth, rolled
>with
monuments America
>from
Revolutionary to Shiloh
>down Nam's
>
> grate flare of torn bodies, absolutely
horrible
>for 15
minutes. open every
>page your
headache ends humanity at bay, hour ghosts
>in deign
jurist prudence - anonymity
>of one's soul
in the air is change of tasteless
>mouths, a
sexless taste of an era, fisted
>by the aids
of peoples and the woman
>called miss
stake who held you in your heart ...
said their are
>know faults
with in my cite, of nun eye am a ware...
>
>so now ewe
can sea why aye too prays your finial head
>& foot my
book rests between by righting watt I want
>too pleas be
four I brake into averse. I ran this poem threw you,
>dead wanted
for murderous polish in gold
>great wait.
in no scent and free from wind
>at last - you
got a chest for life.
>
>ja
>
>
> To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: John
Wieners 1
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Angel Exhaust 11:
[ Up | Next | Previous | Contents | About ]
To Celebrate this
Broken Man: the Poetry of John Wieners
for John Robinson
Jeremy Reed
Lyric poetry
demands a total commitment, an inseparable pact between the poet's life and
art, and John Wieners has in every way fulfilled this redoubtable union. Poets
in the 20th century have largely been in retreat from their calling, and have
attempted to reconcile their art with avocational careers, and in the process
have contributed to the social unacceptance that goes with being a poet.
John Wieners
steps out of a doorway. He's a legend to the few who celebrate his elegiac
lyricism, and his consummately attuned ear. It's stopped raining, but the
street shines like the points in a blue diamond. He's in love with glamour and
torchsingers. He would like to be a beautiful woman. It's an obsession. In his
loneliness, a mood that permeates all of his poetry, he is thinking of Lana
Turner, Rita Hayworth, Billie Holiday, Barbara Stanwyck, Dorothy Lamour or Hedy
Lamarr. He has assimilated and personalised theatrically camp gestures, but his
rich inner world of ambidextrous personae is not easily translated into money.
Again and again his poetry turns on the question of how to live from lyric, and
how to resolve the dichotomy between the magic invested in the name of being a
poet and the demythicized role as it is translated into reality.
Poverty has
nearly ripped my life off,
kept me on the
streets and in boarding houses, drove me into asylums and maddened
drug-addiction tenements, where I lost my mother and father.
('New Beaches')
Wieners combines
the poet and sexual outlaw in one person, and his angular lyricism, at times
savagely polemical and at times gracefully poignant, owes as much to the 17th
century songwriters as it does to Black Mountain poetics and the Beat
Generation. Rhetoric and vernacular come together in his work, and his language
takes a shine from symbolist metaphor as well as tarnish from dust kicked up
off the street. Wieners is arguably the most subjective poet of his generation,
he personalises lyric in a way that sets him apart from the transpersonal ethos
explored by Olson, Creeley and Dorn. And it's the woman who suffers in his
work, the wounded and devastated anima in his psyche which has him again and
again consign his emotions to the self-evaluative poetic arena. It's the
dramatization of suffering that gives his poetry the gestures of a torch
singer.
Your wife's
necklace's around my neck
and even though I
do shave I pretend
I'm a woman for
you
you make love to
me like a man.
('To H.')
Wieners, finding
himself in the passive role in his sexual relations, invariably interprets pain
accordingly. His poetry is about maintaining a wounded dignity in the face of
societal humiliation, and in spite of drug habits, breakdowns, and periods of
itinerant vagrancy. He is the most explicit of gay poets, and it's much to his
credit that he has pursued a policy of sexual honesty right from the outset of
his career. There are no duplicities, equivocations or simulations in his
sexual psychology. His honesty is often unsparing on personal and ideological
planes:
I suppose that's
how I was born,
Come on and go
down on me,
because I live in
misery
far away from the
sea.
('Jimmy')
Where do we find
him? He moves through the late afternoon crowds, his eyes making a stab at a
jeweller's window, and staying there for a long time, or he will enter stores
and learn from the colours of the couture fashions, and imagine himself a diva
leaving with a sequinned gown and a variety of make-up. No-one before has made
a poetry out of his subject material, and his exploration of obsessive fetishes
cultivated by a traumatised anima has shifted the parameters of what is thought
to be acceptable subject matter for poetry. Wieners is essentially an American phenomenon
in that British poetry continually narrows its focus, and would fail to
integrate his work into its largely commonplace organism. Despite the
appearance of a Selected Poems from Jonathan Cape in 1972, and an earlier book
Nerves from Cape Goliard in 1970, Wieners remains arcane knowledge in this
country, given only to the enthusiasm of a cult who cherish and keep his work
alive through underground sources.
John Wieners
living in poverty at Joy Street, Boston, seven orange roses beside him in a glass,
a long scarf draped from his shoulders. He has an identity, the panache of the
poet transcending ruin to live in the light of his commitment. Wieners has
never sold himself short, he has honoured his calling by dishonouring its
alternatives, conformism and unemployment. His eye works to find the
aesthetically redemptive particular:
Bulgarian lilies,
trans
sylvanian tulips
on a
rose quartz
stair-case bend
beneath sunrise.
Hun-
garian roses
twisted to shape
('White Rum and
Limes')
Wieners follows
in the tradition of le poète maudit, the one who is a danger to society by
reason of uncompromising vision. The one who goes all the way and cares nothing
for himself in the process, like Lautréamont, Rimbaud, and Hart Crane. Wieners'
work is about the retrieval of truth from the ideological complex of lies, and
it's about maintaining a state of creative innocence in a world of experiential
corruption. The internalized process of poetics creates purity when the
energies are rightly directed. Wieners has remained pure in his situation to
his gift, and is that even if he is blowing a guy in a parking lot or measuring
a hit of morphine. The poète maudit is the alchemist, he who transmutes all
experience into recognizable gold, by which I mean lyric. And the poem is in
itself the reward for a life of solitary exclusion, punctuated by the fanatical
enthusiasm of the few who align with the work:
half-a-decade of
rest, the skin on my legs has changed it holds together
now as a rich
person by itself, I have vowed I shall never be again and know
I shall never be
lonely again, because of the love that dwells within poetry's mouth
('New Beaches')
It takes an
irrefutable courage to compound lines like these, and it's given to few to
write them. Wieners is in his heightened moments, when lyric is aspiring to a
vertical axis, visionary. Something in the line dazzles, and his native Beacon
Hill is aureoled by his inimitably cadenced poetic speech. And even if he is
lonely, and in love with married men, a Billie Holiday song accompanying his
late-afternoon reverie, then his gift has been to dis-alienate those who are
similarly ostracised and alone. Wieners has given an accessible poetry to gay
culture, junkies, transvestites, transsexuals, and not least the lonely. And he
has restored dignity to the role of being a poet.
Wieners has made
poetry out of want. Denied the life of material opulence and romantic love to
which his aesthetic sensibility reaches, he has imagined their existence within
his work. Like Jean Genet, who transformed his prison cell into any number of
palatial rooms, and transmogrified his solitary sexual state into imagined
orgiastic excesses, so Wieners writes to situate himself in a world vitalized
to his needs:
Lost in his arms
for two days,
I find my secret
passions rewarded;
melting, blended
as before
receiving kisses
as from a King of the Black Sea, no-one able to compete with his necessity.
('We Would Be Two
Men')
Since Behind the
State Capitol, published in 1975, Wieners has largely fallen silent in terms of
published work. His state of ravaged psychophysical dissolution has needed time
in which to repair, and so the legend surrounding his name deepens. In the
Sixties and Seventies he was eminently prolific, his tormented lyrics
subscribing to form and rhyme when the latter were considered as impositional
phenomena belonging to a dead poetry. His method of writing constellated
precision at a time when form was in débâcle.
Of his long
silence Wieners has said: 'I am living out the logical conclusion of my books.'
Inside this broken man you will find Ava Gardner, he refers to her as 'the
Master', and any number of the glam icons with whom he identifies. They are his
inner reality. Take a walk across the park with John Wieners, and he is
dejectedly withdrawn into his own inner pantheon of the stars. His clothes
affect the little touches of style which so individualize his work. He's headed
towards a gay bar. An autumn leaf falls in his hair.
Return-Path:
<rasa@gpnet.it>
X-Sender:
rasa@pop.gpnet.it (Unverified) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:56:43 +0100
To:
brcs@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
From: Rinaldo
RASA <rasa@gpnet.it>
Subject: i'm
searching for Emmet Grogan on Yahoo and Excite
hello,
i've found yr
post about emmet grogan, and i'll ask u if u have (or has some suggestion)
where i can obtain a picture (gif or jpg) of emmet grogan to insert in the Beat
SuperNova web page. if not too much disturbing have a look at the www page
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm
let me know
something, and i'm asking to u for the permission to add yr address in the
credits&comments section of the supernova,
Rinaldo.
Venice-Mestre,Italy
rasa@gpnet.it
Return-Path:
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
X-Sender:
rinaldo@pop.gpnet.it (Unverified) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:00:56 +0100
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
rasa@gpnet.it,etr@gpnet.it
123 prova!
To:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Cc:
rasa@gpnet.it, etr@gpnet.it
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
123 prova!
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Air the
Trees by Larry Eigner
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Air the Trees
by
Larry Eigner
------------------------------------------------------------------------
the disappearance of matter
where is the
end of the poem
tired eyes
the sun travels
and allows dream
------------------------------------------------------------------------
orange cap
the hydrant
is silvered
single-purposed
it may never be used
but is flushed
alarms have passed
the availability of water
at some points, all
considered, so fine
doing
often the sky reflects
the trees as well vary
much color, and substance
more or less flame
comes and goes
birds fly
and raise shout
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huge hill, so much
to lie under
life burying you
or overlooks you
field
the view diminishes
you come down
a hole in the wall
brings quiet the
water flows
through pipes there as
the sun might burn leaves through
clouds slope
around the earth
monsters are quiet
the tree shapes
singed spots
black through the centuries
twisting towards the light
they grow familiar cross
each other
a skyway lanes
channel dug out
from a river of sap
or a log
never floated
what time
is day
and night changes
in the weather
the asphalt road
calcine a way off
moon
out by
afternoon
then
spreading its light
in the wind the cold fountain
------------------------------------------------------------------------
hang on the tree there's
the opening
however gone there's
blue
outward, around,
birds settle, think
they're always hungry, eyes
brood
or sleep is the dark sky ,
rain
sinks in
------------------------------------------------------------------------
seaweed smells
in the breeze sewer-gas
blowed up the drugstore
injuring several that's what
the hospitals are for, with
quiet wards
50
unscathed
but shaken
to bear miracles
" the contents
first taken for blood
so horror, so easily
arrived
from
the day
so here come
random eyeteeth
crashing out through the window
like
bony fish
(yet the glass hurt
a faustian
flame by the soda
fountain
and above the arena
where the circus's
3 rings go in
still banked with its
accessory porous world
tiers checked to the nooks of its
sky
over the railroad
station
------------------------------------------------------------------------
massing goods and swarming people
The apples we take in
and
a few leaves left
------------------------------------------------------------------------
well, a tree
is obvious
thank god for it
they
continue
down
the road
what
leaves
Sun there
cloud stacked
make hay
a further place
is
colors
a ground of winter
in the head
gulls flying
close lately
shadows and other birds too
grow small cross the snow
soon you may think
in the windows
a wheel you get
continuities
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My mind a cloud
a wet sponge
there are mountains nearby
construction men going to the job
in white helmets below
)or yellow like
their crane timber immobile swung
air
the heights distances
all in mind
direction
green cars pass
blue red
white
nails
build slow as the clock
now fog
burns
the sun up
and down through
------------------------------------------------------------------------
bird sounds
make the sunned room pass
the opened window
------------------------------------------------------------------------
f o r
t h e m e n in
the y a r d
city some round thing,
a clock peace
with all its parts
there is
none
the door
close to the ground a road he stepped out
of
to talk a tree is divided
food ten minutes
chain
but
no exhaust visible
birds we imagine singing
or
any tail-pipe
a truck comes that kind of a job
time of day its
lights off
white and red
it's blue, reflective
peace is clean
we think
bow
politely
or maybe it's nod
the wall has occasion
the far spread height
as you come closer
memory has made
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The difference
of
a small room
they've thought enough kinds of windows
and the paintings there made
to be close similar scenes
from the floor
above
walking around down there
zigzag circles aimless
puzzles my head
or the odd moment, tired
in their wings
more or less
across the stone
drive
stuck to the paving
in gait
the pigeon might be anyone
while the machine, the way
equipment bears on the road
up-ended, some
stretches in hills
family cars
of workers
transparent
the wooden however torn down at
building one other time
like
more than two mirrors to
each room
you step to the path
a dividing line
the particular streets fade in my mind
------------------------------------------------------------------------
steam heat birds
January damp
a huge gull visits here
trees still
sound of the clock looking
up to find white
move horizontals the air
then clouds pass level
snow fills the
neighborhood
the trees take
birds the
light air
------------------------------------------------------------------------
shhh goes the lawnmower
should I stop
the razor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
quiet
as a bird
the sky fades
the stars out
all this time
air through
the houses
a dog is barking
should there be memory
the moon wanes too
to some appearance
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ozone? peal the
day slide the
lectric car
Hurry
the
Wind
picks up
busses
Drops em
They should make
wing if
the weather's mild
------------------------------------------------------------------------
the sky become
endless
the clouds islands
at this level we
pass
then leaves spread
the hills' breasts
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small, flightless birds
the voice far
tinkling bells
museum
of sorts, the rats destroyed
moving ashore, M i d w
a y
slow is flat wall of the sea
the
poem and sky
each island
rose
farther than
any whale
fins
breathing
above the waves
the mirrors
heat
past
sunshine
vibrations
of air
spiders,
then birds, settle
reflexive
man
menageries
bringing what he can
from the bottom
interest
rock crumbles to earth
under rain in
the seas
the
quickening run-though
clouds mulct the moon
flats one thing at a time
the whale is still hunted tides, a large motion
in certain parts
small waves give boats
prodigal
the deep light
------------------------------------------------------------------------
the tree like a
monster
the green day time
the sun dies
blue
or stretches, eventually
out
a place come to
moved
------------------------------------------------------------------------
m y
l o v e i s a l l
a s
h u n g r y a s
t h e s e a
As much as you
want
The little you can take
through the store window
glass splatters the
hole's empty
a fire braze open the roofs
quieter than planes
jammed shadows
you slow turning up high
out of the
comfortless air
the corpses drop you come
to some grave all
motion is the same
you've taken away
the time for ballistics
a man from the Pentagon
in your falling apart chair
bullets no
felt wings
the absence
they stop what
lightning replacements
the girls stabbing each other
your hat not
right on yo'r head
------------------------------------------------------------------------
quiet lawns
nice air
smells voices
crowd on words you
think there's no crime
just because
the world is a cloud
men dim
shot cross
fire
capacities for excitement the
automatic
force acceleration
the heart beats
sounds a distant bird
gas
burns
------------------------------------------------------------------------
F o r y o u r
q u i e t l i m b s
Imogen, was he
stupid ?
It's a
foolish situation
all these houses
around here are stages
launching
drama
you want that, don't you?
a mean garment
once
------------------------------------------------------------------------
children's sizes are indeterminate
then there's
those ones across the road they live from a lawn split by a driveway
-- well, let's go
in, the kitchen someplace in the middle the tv in the corner down the
aisle , the basement window shows the
circled grass
the kids have a
dog that's ownership Where he keeps his
hat, they sometimes put on they push the sidewalk for four lots
and
take a diaper car for a milktruck
so a year is a
long time
the snow more
reflective than the glass they see coming at moments in their minds
and far away, the trees stay bare
in the fall the
cats will spawn, usually and birds come out in the sky, the nests dry like
crusts, and plants in the earth, fires at the gutter the hens smelling the
chickencoop
or garages hot,
ragged water and oils
they rake up the
beds with their toys
------------------------------------------------------------------------
n u m b e r
1 . k i l l e r
. t h e h e a r t
he was shot 3 times
mouth, nose, and bladder
rushing blood to the scene
of the arrest of
a busy morning on the
side
cloth rest
and the coke in summer
down with the sea
death
shepherd
united nation beyond
the desert, against
a trial cost
of argument
row on row, and the shields
lattice
for the mind health
picture frame of the
tin cans
tomato
the river slugs
and the playground
saw
waves ride as the weather
ice cream
ultimate pasturing
gulls
and sparrows around in
the sky
------------------------------------------------------------------------
a very serious, threatening
expression
Beethoven's fist
in the end at the
thunder he imagined
a chord
to go on something else
as may have been different
fell back words
silent no more remembered
in those walls
that succession a
round
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick Douglass
took his chances
like
when we fly?
I don't know
the landing gear
far from my mind I
was trying to see
where there was anything but
a large ship only
that appeared small
Do you love Maryland that
state there
how
would you like to go back
where you didn't come from Most
have something they can
take shame from withdraw it fish
life lurks in the sea
we eat it,what
is germane
the St. Louis slave mart
something to remember is
still there days
after the War -
of the Rugged Individual when
man was man the
head of the family and so on we
couldn't have gotten along
why risk your shirt no
hands to pick the cotton no
gin
in a man's thoughts
Faneuil
Hall after what happened
the slave likes
what's in the air
the free wonders
as well what
there might have been
don't often lose sight
of the ground
a cruise is expensive
no tall dark face
in the air
no porter what
have I to do with
what I don't
see
------------------------------------------------------------------------
at least the chair makes
some noise it's
mysterious
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as you lay down
to snatch up again
a crime not
history
the guns
silent mouth to the bays
slagged in the sky
no
stinking breach
there are improvisations when
government burns
the purposes
played out like a fiction
at night hanging around
silence the cannon for
slaves are free
and we have joined
to turn home
stars the candles
remembered
echoes
bring quiet for
the whiffing against the cold
sawmills afloat
barns impregnable to
iron
the bricks windows anchor
wounded
rifles emptied air
improved aim
in place of propositions
drifted off
the swaying car
is swift
on the streets
picturesque also
the pines are
a straight
backing
mules wires
rakishly light
the stacks take off
it's we uns captured them
today
it aint fair to a mule
to begin learning im
polite
confusions
with army experience
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Confederacy, you have to
repeat,
was real
suddenly
to be denied
lines there down the map
if you recognize yourself
still
roads
colors of your state
to make a noise in
the sheer slavery
of abstruse thought
full of the sky rough
river
dirt the captured ordnance
made game (to puff
in imagination (useless
with the real
shot crater
powder-kegs
strewing the ground
now then
behind grass the
slope of cloud house
bed and emptiness besides
returning the sun
shown everywhere
the full-decked
------------------------------------------------------------------------
t h e
c a t c h
the slogans
gone
smiling
below the quick rain
windshields
bound into the sun
again
in descent
shines ,
cave back the cloud
people who
hump the boards
this moment, going
forth, a time
for birds, those
where the leaves themselves are
quieted, after the fall
dancing the
table
the whole
gutter
of the street
and listen more
again, the birds
ride
within leaves
the openings change
above crickets
come with the moon
a texture
of abutment
------------------------------------------------------------------------
a man climbing
his steps while the clouds go
by he comes to the corner
apt.
above
the store
what string
I hear the wind
banging, flights
13 up
next door
the bell not visible
either set
more cry of the air
a fitful thing outside
anywhere it seems
closer to the mart
where we get food
fish, say, blank
with indelible eyes
the still distance to
travel unconsumed
a plane increases
above the sea I depict
a curve nearly in sight
more solid
two in black down the
arched hill
------------------------------------------------------------------------
immediately the apartment
smells empty like
some cellar
in the rain
a warmth again
the weather
we have
a leaf floats still
in the gutter no
particular speed
vague in time you've
heard the sea
------------------------------------------------------------------------
the twilight
of rain
felt
the window
vibrates
candle
flames
no more light
a passing
truck
dark
fallen
peacefully
keeps on
over
the center
------------------------------------------------------------------------
smoke extent of chimney
getting less visible as
we drive by
horizontal from London
burning exhaust
------------------------------------------------------------------------
a road in mis-
sissipp i through
trees the
number to the
eye
around the world
the time is the same
where he walked and
he walked how
could you do much
in the century a
line orbit
some place 75 pieces of
shot
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carriers
In winter the dogs "chase"
car fumes, the treads
bang out Summertime
in great bodies, come
to supper, come
the spreader road bed
shortly following birds
trying the thick
pepper
only in ignorance of sand
that's all
it is the druggist
pestle on wheels shaking come
sweeping the sea
paper
rugs
even today
"news" the ads
present confiding tomorrow
and the wind blazes
the soggy edge-on past downtown
to be
rung up
the sea splashes
the window
what milkman
through what crossings
what bus
will you take next
what flashed sunlight is still
what day-long grass is healthy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
deeper, deeper history in
what might have
Colonus
the future in him out of
voice ground
and there's your registered dog
tramping the cemetery
you wouldn't take the occasion
of eating
one thing
Waterloo was
one of the men
bladder trouble
smoothness infinite portion
------------------------------------------------------------------------
sleep was in his
mouth he woke the
birds called
a strain of words swung falling
as the apple tree
back on itself
the slow life
is fast
waters or wings growth
a solemn pole some gate
grass, not very high
to bare patches
any of the trucks
bread
a half dozen chairs
movies
by the window the lost
man
years
in mind he
knew the way
how he story came out
the bower
he left the arrowhead
beads
later the cellar
flowers looking in
under the moon the
chairs tilted back a view above the
screen
flies were in the way
the trunks bark hollow
now the black man brings the
clean pants and he has to pay
------------------------------------------------------------------------
S e n e g a l
The dead walk
noon
there are such
trees
women loaded
hair
the road-side
keep
after a film on
Leopold Senghor, the tall
country the
life onward smilling
or bring a seat
for a man
waiting
------------------------------------------------------------------------
don't go
see
it backwards
time or space
the crickets match
the morning
silence
birds dreamed there
hungry
the trees in wait
for food
stars shone
on deadly fish
------------------------------------------------------------------------
happiness from the year
(1820 or so)
end of life what
would you like to know
the nature
of wants
a cloud
all one over
a few big trees
the whole sky
whatever put
time in your mind
water or light
at various temperatures it
rained down
a substance or
gradations
your body stretched
now there's a long tail
balanced along the wire
you take a dinosaur
pink thing
ants
spread all over the lot
extensive number
for the first time in my life
i see a bird
sit on a phonpole nail
trees weed
clouds
their due
------------------------------------------------------------------------
light
walls the
shape of a window
or more blurred
the street
outdoors
grazed a long
hot cold with
smoke in mouth
ice
where the sun shines
varies
heavier air
or light
minute song
may imply leaves
a few clouds
milling this day
houses
are more shadow
the cut blaze
turn back such heat
darkness to ripple
the line of spring
immediate
the sea's dance
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I in
the foreground
mirror of time huge as
I may be small
face puffed short
music comes
we have
a forest
trees
the leaves mass
summer autumn too
wind, sun and
stars move
it's the air here
periods separate
the day the held light
how it gets through we've
a puzzle box
of wood
house
hard glass doors
there
street signs opened
rain streaks
cloud
distance the birds
still
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAIKU
motor around
the
sky and
caterpilar
bumps of (f the road
the woman a tree
standing
leaves
of
a basket
dying or green
he clips backwards
with
electricity
enough so you're confident
to be aware
packed like the gutters
splice pilings level through the air
the great
world at the window
stirs with the breeze
smell
onwards seasons
to the old storms
baffering air
tides of spring
the flowers
and stars
have opposite names
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come out of your eyes the
soul is a corner
universe
back two steps
now you-re shadowing walls
broken into houses
carry the ground
eternal spaces
weeds
the sun turns west
you are what I am the empty flat
has clean sills still
been taken
that dog
is younger than you
memory is less, not so
crowded
as the trees are
slightly, the earth is changing
as much
you remember the papers
the dim place
the branch held by the attic
it's a lengthy view
night coming
tomorrow
the sun to divide
and suppose the thin
shadow going down
in one window and
out of another
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright (c)
1968 by Larry Eigner.
Copyright (c)
1997 by Ricard Eigner, Conservator.
Originally
published by Black Sparrow Press.
Long out of
print, the text is presented here complete.
The original
edition contained a suite of drawings by Bobbie Creeley.
Return to
Light and Dust
Poets.
Light and Dust
Mobile Anthology of Poetry.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: sonnets
by Wanda Coleman
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
**************************************
from
AMERICAN SONNETS
by
WANDA COLEMAN
**************************************
12.
- after Robert
Duncan
my earliest
dreams linger/wronged spirits who will not rest/dusky crows astride
the sweetbriar
seek to fly the
orchard's sky. is
this the world i loved?
groves of perfect
oranges and streets of stars where the sad eyes of my youth
wander the
atomic-age paradise
tasting
the blood of a
stark and wounded puberty?
o what years ago?
what rapture lost in white heat of skin/walls that patina my heart's despair?
what fear disturbs my quiet
night's grazing?
stampedes my soul?
o memory. i sweat
the eternal weight of graves
13.
- after Sergio
Macias
today i'm with
you braiding hate into a rainbow picking up trash off the cement banks of the
Los Angeles river human feces litters the corporate dreams downtown i already
feel my soul's freedom hymns
(i am drunk on
disturbing things. hopelessness flows from the wounds of my negritude. when
light reaches me i cringe and pray for darkness to return) i navigate through
the streets, my compass broken smashed by a hunk of stormy history.
i savor the
stench of auto exhaust and unwashed bodies sweat stinging the unhappy eyes of
my region. the illuminati enforcers mapping my deathwalk toward night
the eagle preens
above our bleeding bear
16.
- after Huey P.
Newton
the clairvoyant
activist ever ready to
face the
consequences of his/her perceptions must
subsist on
stubborn hope (D. Brutus) for maintenance aids dogged determination to
construct required change.
revolutionary
homicide/suicide means awareness of reality in combination with potential
sociocentrism.
those ill-equiped
to struggle against brutal powers risk extinction. [to cooperate in the
imprisoning of one's own people-psyche is reactionary homicide/suicide which
will be rewarded by ever-watchful scions of the oppressive belief system. but
to pretend to do so is to trick.] specific group resistance of rampant
narco/necromania may be manifest in periodic eruptions of spontaneous civil
violence. it is imperative that visionaries see
war as ultimate
service for resolution
17.
i am seized with
the desire to end
my breath in
short spurts. shoulder pain the world lengthens then contracts
(in deep water -
my sudden swimming. the surface breaks. thoughts leap. the Buick bends
a corner. an arc
of light briefly sweeps the dark walls) everywhere there are temples of stone
and strange
chantings - ashes angels and dolls i forget my lover. i want a stranger - to
shiver at the unfamiliar touch of the one who has not yet touched me
a furred spider
to entrap my hungers
in his silk. with
virulent toxin
to numb my throat
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Copyright (c)
1994 by Wanda Coleman.
These poems are
from American Sonnets by Wanda Coleman, co-published by Light and Dust Books
and Woodland Pattern Book Center. #13 also appeared previously in BOMBAY GIN
vol. II # 4.
American Sonnets
is available through the Light and Dust catalogue.
Return to Light
and Dust Poets.
Light and Dust @
Grist Mobile Anthology of Poetry.
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jack
Kerouac's Essentials of Spontaneous Prose
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Jack Kerouac's
Essentials of Spontaneous Prose
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SET-UP The object
is set before the mind, either in reality, as in sketching (before a landscape
or teacup or old face) or is set in the memory wherein it becomes the sketching
from memory of a definite image-object.
PROCEDURE Time
being of the essence in the purity of speech, sketching language is undisturbed
flow from the mind of personal secret idea-words, blowing (as per jazz
musician) on subject of image.
METHOD No periods
separating sentence-structures already arbitrarily riddled by false colons and
timid usually needless commas--but the vigorous space dash seperating
rhetorical breathing (as jazz musician drawing breath between outblown
phrases)--"measured pauses which are the essentials of our
speech"--"divisions of the sounds we hear"--"time and how
to note it down." (William Carlos Williams)
SCOPING Not
"selectivity" of expression but following free deviation
(association) of mind into limitless blow-on subject seas of thought, swimming
in sea of English with no discipline other than rhythms of rhetorical
exhalation and expostulated statement, like a fist coming down on a table with
each complete utterance, bang! (the space dash)--Blow as deep as you
want--write as deeply, fish as far down as you want, satisfy yourself first,
then reader cannot fail to receive telepathic shock and meaning-excitement by
same laws operating in his own human mind.
LAG IN PROCEDURE
No pause to think of proper word but the infantile pileup of scatological
buildup words till satisfaction is gained, which will turn out to be a great
appending rhythm to a thought and be in accordance with Great Law of timing.
TIMING Nothing is
muddy that runs in timetime--Shakespearian stress of dramatic need to speak now
in own unalterable way or forever hold tongue--no revisions (except obvious
rational mistakes, such as names or calculated insertions in act of not writing
but inserting).
CENTER OF
INTEREST Begin not from preconceived idea of what to say about image but from
jewel center of interest in subject of image at moment of writing, and write
outwards swimming in sea of language to peripheral release and exhaustion--Do
not afterthink except for poetic or P.S. reasons. Never afterthink to
"improve" or defray impressions, as, the best writing is always the
most painful personal wrung-out tossed from the cradle warm protective
mind--tap from yourself the song of yourself, blow!--now!--your way is your
only way--"good"--or "bad"--always honest,
("ludicrous"), spontaneous, "confessional" interesting,
because not "crafted." Craft is craft.
STRUCTURE OF WORK
Modern bizarre structures (science fiction, etc.) arise from language being
dead, "different" themes give illusion of "new" life.
Follow roughly outlines in outfanning movement over subject, as river rock, so
mindflow over jewel-center need (run your mind over it, once) arriving at
pivot, where what was dim-formed "beginning" becmes
sharp-necessitating "ending" and language shortens in race to wire of
time-race of work, following laws of Deep Form, to conclusion, last words, last
trickle--Night is The End.
MENTAL STATE If
possible write "without consciousness" in semitrance (as Yeats' later
"trance writing") allowing subconscious to admit in owm uninhibited
intersting necessary and so "modern" language what conscious art
would censor, and write excitedly, swiftly, with writing-or-typing-cramps, in
accordance (as from center to periphery) with laws of orgasm, Reich's
"beclouding of consciousness." Come from within, out--to relaxed and
said.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Belief and
Technique for Modern Prose
List of
Essentials
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Scribbled
secret notebooks, and wild typewritten pages, for yr own joy 2.Submissive to
everything, open, listening 3.Try never get drunk outside yr own house 4.Be in
love with yr life 5.Something that you feel will find its own form 6.Be crazy
dumbsaint of the mind 7.Blow as deep as you want to blow 8.Write what you want
bottomless from bottom of the mind 9.The unspeakable visions of the individual
10.No time for poetry but exactly what is 11.Visionary tics shivering in the
chest 12.In tranced fixation dreaming upon object before you 13.Remove
literary, grammatical and syntactical inhibition 14.Like Proust be an old
teahead of time 15.Telling the true story of the world in interior monolog
16.The jewel center of interest is the eye within the eye 17.Write in
recollection and amazement for yourself 18.Work from pithy middle eye out,
swimming in language sea 19.Accept loss forever 20.Believe in the holy contour
of life 21.Struggle to sketch the flow that already exists intact in mind
22.Dont think of words when you stop but to see pictures better 23.Keep track
of every day the date emblazoned in yr morning 24.No fear or shame in the
dignity of yr experience, language & knowledge 25.Write for the world to
read and see yr exact pictures of it 26.Bookmovie is th movie in words, the
visual American form 27.In praise of Character in the Bleak inhuman Loneliness
28.Composing wild, undisciplined, pure, coming in from under, crazier the
better 29.You're a Genius all the time 30.Writer-Director of Earthly movies
Sponsored & Angeled in Heaven
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Highlands Bob Dylan
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Highlands
Well, my heart's
in the highlands, gentle and fair Honey suckle bloomin' in the wildwood air
Bluebells blazin' where the Aberdeen waters flow Well, my heart's in the
highlands, I'm gonna go there when
I feel good enough to go
Windows were
shakin' all night in my dreams Everything was exactly the way that it seems
Woke up this mornin' and I looked at the same old page Same old rat race, life
in the same old cage
I don't want
nothin' from anyone, ain't that much to take Wouldn't know the difference
between a real blonde and a fake Feel like a prisoner in a world of mystery I
wish someone would come and push back the clock for me
Well, my heart's
in the highlands, wherever I roam That's where I'll be when I get called home
The wind it whispers to the buck-eyed trees of rhyme Well, my heart's in the
highlands, I can only get there one step
at a time
I'm listening to
Neil Young, I gotta turn up the sound Someone's always yellin', "Turn it
down" Feel like I'm driftin', driftin' from scene to scene I'm wondering
what in the devil could it all possibly mean
Insanity is
smashin' up against my soul You could say I was on anything but a roll If I had
a conscience, well I just might blow my top What would I do with it anyway,
maybe take it to the pawn shop
My heart's in the
highlands at the break of dawn By the beautiful lake of the black swan Big
white clouds like chariots that swing down low Well, my heart's in the
highlands, only place left to go
I'm in Boston
town, in some restaurant
I got no idea
what I want
Or maybe I do
but, I'm just really not sure Waitress comes over, nobody in the place but me
and her
Well, it must be
a holiday, there's nobody around She studies me closely as I sit down
She got a pretty face,
with long white shiny legs I said, "Tell me what I want," she say,
"You probably want hard
boiled eggs."
I say,
"That's right, bring me some."
She says,
"We ain't got any, you picked the wrong time to come." Then she says,
"I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me." I said, "I
would if I could but I don't do sketches from memory."
Well, she then,
she says, "I'm right here in front of you, or
haven't you looked?"
I say, "All
right, I know but I don't have my drawing book." She gives me a napkin,
she say, "You can do it on that." I say, "Yes I could but I
don't know where my pencil is at."
She pulls one out
from behind her ear
She says,
"All right now go ahead, draw me, I'm stayin' right here." I make a
few lines and I show it for her to see Well, she takes her napkin and throws it
back and says, "That
don't look a thing like me."
I said, "Oh,
kind Miss, it most certainly does." She say, "You must be
jokin'," I say, "I wish I was." Then she says, "You don't
read women authors do ya?" at least
that's what I think I hear her say
Well, I said,
"How would you know and what would it matter anyway?"
Well she says,
"You just don't seem like you do." I said,
"You're way wrong."
She says
"Which ones have you read then?" I say, "I've read
Erica Jong."
She goes away for
a minute and I slide out outa of my chair I step outside back to the busy
street but nobody is goin' anywhere
Well, my heart's
in the highlands with the horses and hounds Way up in the border country far
from the towns With the twang of the arrow and the snap of the bow My heart's
in the highlands, I can't see any other way to go
Every day is the
same thing, out the door Feel further away than ever before
Some things in
life it just gets too late to learn Well, I'm lost somewhere, I must of made a
few bad turns
I see people in
the park forgettin' their troubles and woes They're drinkin' and dancin',
wearin' bright colored clothes All the young men, with the young women lookin'
so good Well, I'd trade places with any of 'em in a minute, if I could
I'm crossing the
street to get away from a mangey dog Talkin' to myself in a monologue
I think what I
need might be a full length leather coat Somebody just asked me if I've
registered to vote
The sun is
beginnin' to shine on me
But it's not like
the sun that used to be The party's over and there's less and less to say I got
new eyes, everything looks far away
Well, my heart's
in the highlands at the break of day Over the hills and far away
There's a way to
get there and I'll figure it out somehow Well, I'm already there in my mind,
and that's good enough for now
Bob Dylan (c)
1997
from TIME OUT OF
MIND
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: not too
crude
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Not to be too
crude...but I thought you might find this funny!
Scott C. Render
Executive
Briefing Center
http://ebcweb
> Perhaps one
of the most interesting and colorful words in the English
> language
today is the word "fuck". It is the one magical word which,
> just by its
sound, can describe pain, pleasure, love, and hate. In
> language,
"fuck" falls into many grammatical categories.
> It can be
used as a verb, both transitive (John
fucked Mary) and
> intransitive
(Mary was fucked by John). It can be an action verb (John
>
> really gives
a fuck), a passive verb (Mary really doesn't give a
> fuck), an
adverb (Mary is fucking interested in John), or as a noun
> (Mary is a
terrific fuck). It can also be used as
an adjective (Mary
> is fucking
beautiful) or an interjection (Fuck! I'm late for my date
> with
Mary). It can even be used as a
onjunction (Mary is easy, fuck
> she's also
stupid). As you can see, there are very few words with the
> overall
versatility of the word "fuck".
> Aside from
its sexual connotations, this incredible word can be used
> to describe
many situations:
> 1. Greetings:
"How the fuck are ya?"
> 2. Fraud:
"I got fucked by the car dealer."
> 3. Resignation: "Oh, fuck it!"
> 4. Trouble:
"I guess I'm fucked now."
> 5. Aggression:
"FUCK YOU!"
> 6. Disgust:
"Fuck me."
> 7. Confusion:
"What the fuck.......?"
> 8. Difficulty:
"I don't understand this fucking business!"
> 9. Despair:
"Fucked again..."
> 10. Pleasure:
"I fucking couldn't be happier."
> 11. Displeasure:
"What the fuck is going on here?"
> 12. Lost:
"Where the fuck are we?"
> 13. Disbelief: "UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!"
> 14. Retaliation:
"Up your fucking ass!"
> 15. Denial:
"I didn't fucking do it."
> 16. Perplexity: "I know fuck all about
it."
> 17. Apathy:
"Who really gives a fuck, anyhow?"
> 18. Greetings:
"How the fuck are ya?"
> 19. Suspicion:
"Who the fuck are you?"
> 20. Panic:
"Let's get the fuck out of here."
> 21. Directions:
"Fuck off."
> 22. Disbelief:
"How the fuck did you do that?"
>
> It can be
used in an anatomical description- "He's a fucking
>
asshole."
> It can be
used to tell time- "It's five fucking thirty."
>
> It can be
used in business- "How did I wind up with this fucking
> job?"
>
> It can be
maternal- "Motherfucker."
>
> It can be
political- "Fuck Dan Quayle!"
>
> It has also
been used by many notable people throughout history:
> "What
the fuck was that?" Mayor of
Hiroshima
> "Where
did all these fucking Indians come from?" General Custer
> "Where
the fuck is all this water coming from?" Captain of the Titanic
>
> "That's
not a real fucking gun." John
Lennon
> "Who's
gonna fucking find out?" Richard
Nixon
> "Heads
are going to fucking roll." Henry
VIII
> "Let
the fucking woman drive." Commander
of Space Shuttle
> "Any fucking idiot could understand
that." Albert Einstein
> "It
does so fucking look like her!"
Picasso
> "How
the fuck did you work that out?"
Pythagoras
> "You
want what on the fucking ceiling?" Michaelangelo
> "Fuck a
duck." Walt Disney
> "Why?-
Because its fucking there!" Edmund
Hilary
> "I
don't suppose its gonna fucking rain?"
Joan of Arc
>
"Scattered fucking showers my ass."
Noah
> "I need
this parade like I need a fucking hole in my head." John
> F.Kennedy
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: lou reed
heroin lyric
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
from the album:
The Velvet Underground & Nico
(1967-Verve)
by Lou Reed
"Heroin"
I don't know just where I'm going
But I'm gonna try for the kingdom, if I can
'cause it makes me feel like I'm a man
When I put a spike into my vein
And I tell you things aren't quite the same
When I'm rushing on my run
And I feel just like Jesus' son
And I guess that I just don't know
And I guess that I just don't know
I have made the big decision
I'm gonna try to nullify my life
'cause when the blood begins to flow
When it shoots up the dropper's neck
When I'm closing in on death
You can't help me now, you guys
And all you sweet girls with all your sweet
talk
You can all go take a walk
And I guess I just don't know
And I guess that I just don't know
I wish that I was born a thousand years ago
I wish that I'd sailed the darkened seas
On a great big clipper ship
Going from this land here to that
In a
sailor's suit and cap
Away from the big city
Where a man cannot be free
Of all the evils of this town
And of himself and those around
Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
Heroin, be the death of me
Heroin, it's my wife and it's my life
Because a mainline in my vein leads to a
center in my head
And then I'm better off than dead
Because
when the smack begins to flow
I really don't care anymore
About all the Jim-Jims in this town
And all the politicians making crazy sounds
And everybody putting everybody else down
And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds
'cause when the smack begins to flow
And I really don't care anymore
Ah, when that heroin is in my blood
And the blood is in my head
Then I thank God that I'm as good as dead
And thank your God that I'm not aware
And thank God that I just don't care
And I guess that I just don't know
Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
<C#><F#><C#><F#> x ?
....
*riff
C#
F#
[--1-------------6------8----6-----
[--2-------------7------9----7-----
[--1-------------6------8----6-----
[----------------------------------
[----------------------------------
[----------------------------------
////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////
Source:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/2245/heroin.txt
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: LF A Far
Rockaway of the Heart
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
# 2 by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Driving a
cardboard automobile without a license at the turn of the
century my father ran into my
mother
on a fun-ride
at Coney Island having spied
each other eating
in a French boardinghouse nearby And having decided right there and
then that she was right for him
entirely he followed her into
the playland of that
evening where the headlong meeting
of their ephemeral
flesh on wheels hurtled them forever
together
And I now in the
back seat
of their eternity reaching
out to embrace them
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti
A Far Rockaway of
the Heart
New Directions
Books
Copyright (c) 1997
by Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
All rights
reserved.
New Directions
Publishing Corporation. To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Driving
a cardboard automobile by Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
# 2 by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Driving a
cardboard automobile without a license at the turn of the
century my father ran into my
mother
on a fun-ride
at Coney Island having spied each other eating in a French
boardinghouse nearby And having decided right there and then that she was right for
him entirely he followed her into
the playland of that
evening where the headlong meeting
of their ephemeral
flesh on wheels hurtled them
forever together
And I now in the
back seat
of their eternity reaching out to embrace them
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Cantico
di Frate Sole by Francesco d'Assisi (4 october 1226)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Cantico di Frate Sole by Francesco
d'Assisi (4 october 1226)
Altissimu, onnipotente, bon Signore,
tue so' le laude, la gloria e l'honore
et onne benedictione.
Ad te solo, Altissimo, se konfano,
et nullu homo ene dignu te mentovare.
5 Laudato sie, mi' Signore, cum tucte le
tue creature,
spetialmente messor lo frate sole,
lo qual'e' iorno, et allumini noi per
lui.
Et ellu e' bellu e radiante cum grande
splendore:
de te, Altissimo, porta significatione.
10 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sora luna e
le stelle:
in celu l'ai formate clarite et
pretiose et belle.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per frate
vento
et per aere et nubilo et sereno et onne
tempo,
per lo quale a le tue creature dai
sustentamento.
15 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sor'aqua,
la quale e' multo utile et humile et
pretiosa et casta.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per frate
focu,
per lo quale ennallumini la nocte:
ed ello e' bello et iocundo et
robustoso et forte.
20 Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sora nostra
matre terra,
la quale ne sustenta et governa,
et produce diversi fructi con coloriti
flori et herba.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per quelli ke
perdonano per lo tuo
amore
et sostengo infirmitate et
tribulatione.
25 Beati quelli ke 'l sosterranno in pace,
ka da te, Altissimo, sirano incoronati.
Laudato si', mi' Signore, per sora
nostra morte corporale,
da la quale nullu homo vivente po'
skappare:
guai a.cquelli ke morrano ne le peccata
mortali; 30 beati quelli ke trovara'
ne le tue sanctissime voluntati,
ka la morte secunda no 'l farra' male.
Laudate e benedicete mi' Signore et
rengratiate
e serviateli cum grande humilitate.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: SOD n1
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
A few JK lines
from 'Some of the Dharma.'
The Eternal and
tranquil Mind
Is bringing you
this Program
Direct from Rosy
Essence (p.7)
If you were not
here
To see the world
With your special
Conditioned eyes
What makes you
think
It would look
like that? (p.7)
The tongue is in a
diseased condition
Eye sees
fantastic blossoms in the air
Your
ego-personality is a pile of shit
Raised high by
your conception of it (p.26)
A LIFE OF
SPONTANEOUS AND RADIANT EFFORTLESSNESS.
That immanent
auspiciousness we all feel in ourselves is the Buddha-nature hidden like a gem
in soiled rags. (p.52)
(In this mighty
paragraph I can hear the huge slappings
on the asses of the Gods.) p.71
Just like when I
was a kid and knew that I should wear my overalls all the time and every day should
be Saturday, is Tao to me. (p.98)
O for the simple
truth of a railroad man in a caboose, on a cold night, in front of his fire, an
old Conductor of the Dharma Train. (p.109)
This world is
like the first pages of Dostoevsky's "Eternal Husband." (p.117)
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: WSB file
n1.
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"I am not
looking for a master; I am looking for the books. In dreams I sometimes find
the books where it is written and I may bring back a few phrases that unwind
like a scroll. Then I write as fast as I can type, because I am reading, not
writing."
-- William S. Burroughs
from "The
Retreat Diaries"
THE BURROUGHS
FILE
City Lights
Books, 1984.
(p 190)
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
dylan time out of mind lyrics
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"I'm
listening to Neil Young, I gotta turn up the sound Someone's always yellin'
"Turn it down" Feel like I'm driftin', driftin' from scene to scene
I'm wonderin' what in the devil could it all possibly mean
Insanity is
smashin' up against my soul You could say I was on anything but a roll If I had
a conscience, well I just might blow my top What would I do with it anyway,
maybe take it to the pawn shop"
excerpt from
"Highlands" by Bob Dylan
from the album
TIME OUT OF MIND
(Columbia 68556,
1997)
source of lyrics:
http://bob.nbr.no/dok/cd/97/toomlyrics.shtml
excerpt from
"Highlands"
by Bob Dylan
"I'm in
Boston town
in some
restaurant
I got no idea
what I want
or maybe I do but
I'm just really
not sure
Waitress comes
over,
nobody in the
place but me and
her
Well it must be a
holiday, there's nobody around She studies me closely as I sit down
She got a pretty
face
and long white
shiny legs
I said "Tell
me what I want"
She say "You
probably want
hard boiled
eggs"
I said
"That's right,
bring me
some"
She says "We
ain't got any,
you picked the
wrong time to come"
then she says
"I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me"
I said "I
would if I could but
I don't do
sketches from memory"
Well she's there
she says "I'm right here in front of you or haven't you looked"
I say "All
right I know but I
don't have my
drawin' book"
She gives me a
napkin,
she say "You
can do it
on that"
I say "Yes I
could but
I don't know
where my
pencil is
at"
She pulls one out
from behind her
ear
She says
"Alright now go ahead
draw me I'm
stayin' right here"
I make a few
lines
and I show it for
her to see
Well she takes
the napkin and throws it back and says "That don't look
a thing like
me"
I said "Oh
kind miss,
it most certainly
does"
She say "You
must be joking",
I said "I
wish I was"
And she says
"You don't read women authors do ya?" at least that's what I think I
hear her say Well I say "How would you know,
and what would it
matter anyway"
Well she says
"Ya just don't seem like ya do", I said "You're way wrong"
She says
"Which ones have you read then?", I say "Read Erica Jong"
She goes away for
a minute,
and I slide out,
out of my chair
I step outside
back to the busy street, but nobody's goin' anywhere
Well my heart's
in The Highlands
with the horses
and hounds
way up in the
border country
far from the
towns
with the twang of
the arrow
and the snap of
the bow
My heart's in The
Highlands,
can't see any
other way to go"
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: John
Wieners was born in 1934
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
A POEM FOR EARLY
RISERS
I'm infused with
the day
even tho the day
may destroy me.
I'm out in it.
Placating
it. Saving myself
from the demons
who sit in blue
coats, carping
at us across
the table. Oh they
go out the doors,
I am done with
them,
I am done with
faces
I have seen
before.
For me now the
new:
the unturned
tricks
of the
trade. The place
of the heart
where man
is afraid to go.
It is not
doors. It is
the ground of my
soul
where dinosaurs
left
their marks. Their
tracks
are upon me. They
walk flatfooted.
Leave heavy heels
and turn sour the
green
fields where I
eat with
ease. It is good to
throw them
up. Good
to have my
stomach growl.
After all, I am
possessed
by wild animals
and
long haired men
and
women who gallop
breaking over my
beloved
places. Oh put down
they vanity man
the
old man told us
under
the tent. You are over-
run with ants.
2
Man lines up for
his
breakfast in the
dawn
unaware of the
jungle
he has left
behind
in his
sleep. Where
the fields
flourished
with cacti,
cauliflower,
all the uneatable
foods,
where the morning
man
perishes, if he
remembered.
3
And yet, we must
remember.
The old forest,
the wild
screams in the
backyard
or the cries of
the bedroom.
It is ours to
nourish.
The nature to
nurture.
Dark places where
the
woman holds,
hands
us, herself
handles an
orange ball. Throwing it
up for
spring. Like
the clot my
grandfather
vomited months
before he
died of
cancer. And
spoke of later in
terror.
--John Wieners
John Wieners was
born in 1934. He graduated from Boston
College in 1954 and attended Black Mountain College. He founded the magazine _Measure_, which
published many of the young poets associated with Black Mountain and with the
"San Francisco Renaissance."
He is known as the "Boston beat," and is still currently
living on Boston's Beacon Hill. The
label as Boston's beat is in my opinion a misnomer and results from his
publishing many of the poets of San Francisco scene. Wieners is more of a traditional New England
poet steeped in the rich, historical fabric of Boston poetry, but one who
twisted his verse into a fresh avant-garde prosody with the influence of
Charles Olson, the dominant and senior figure in the Black Mountain group that
included Robert Creeley, Denise Levertov, and Robert Duncan to name but a
few. Black Mountain was an experimental
school in North Carolina in the 1940s and 50s and many of its teachers and
students have since been important in painting, music and the dance as well as
literature. For instance, John Cage,
Merce Cunningham, Buckminster Fuller, and Robert Motherwell were just some of
the students and teachers associated with the school as well as Josef Albers
and many of the artists of the Bauhaus.
=====================================================================To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Career
of Ron Loewinsohn (1937 - )
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Career of Ron
Loewinsohn (1937 - )
Born in the
Phillipines, Ron Loewinsohn has been a major figure of the San Francisco poetry
scene since his student days at San Francisco State College. While there he
published his first volume of poetry, Watermelons (1959), which featured an
introduction by Allen Ginsberg. In 1963, he co-edited, with Richard Brautigan,
Change, a magazine of poetry. His second book of poetry, The World of the Lie
(1963) received the Poets Foundation Award. His later works include Against the
Silences to Come (1965), L'Autre (1967), The Step (1968), the collection Meat
Air : Poems 1957 - 1969 (1970), and Goat Dances : Poems and Prose (1976).
Loewinsohn is also the author of the novels, Magnetic Fields (1983) and Where
all the Ladders Start (1987).
He was a teaching
fellow in American Literature at Harvard University, 1968 - 1970, where he took
a Ph.D. in 1971. He then returned to California and has since been on the
faculty at the University of California at Berkeley, where he teaches American
literature and creative writing.
Highlights and
Research Potential of the Loewinsohn Papers
The papers
contain both published and unpublished manuscripts of his poetry and prose
criticism through Goat Dances in 1976, many with extensive notes and revisions.
They also include a massive correspondence from friends, fellow writers and
publishers spanning the years 1958 - 1970. These correspondents include:
Richard Brautigan, Robert Creeley, Denise Levertov, John Martin, Charles Olson,
and numerous others. The published manuscripts include: The World of the Lie,
L'Autre, The Step, The Province of the Poem (two versions), Melville and the
Greeks, Record Book, 1968-74, Meat Air, and Goat Dances. Among the unpublished
works are poetry, short fiction, and Lime Kiln Creek, a novel.
Biographical/Critical
sources
* Lepper, Gary. M., A Bibliographical
introduction to 75 Modern Authors
(Berkeley, Calif. : Serendipity Books,
1976.), p. 281-83.
* Contemporary Authors, Vol. 25-28, rev.ed.,
p. 436-37.
* Contemporary Literary Criticism, Vol. 52,
p. 282-83.
Related
Manuscript Collections at Stanford
* Creeley, Robert, (1926 - ) Papers, c.
1960-1992. Special Collections
M662
* Levertov, Denise, (1923 - ) Papers, c.
1955-1993. Special Collections
M601
Other Repository
Holdings
* Yale University
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last Modified:
February 28, 1997
Stanford
University Libraries/Academic Information Resources To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Career
of Larry Eigner (1927 - 1996)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Career of Larry
Eigner (1927 - 1996)
American poet
born in Swampscott, MA, Eigner was confined his entire life to a wheelchair as
a result of cerebral palsy. Educated at home by his parents, he lived with them
in Swampscott until 1978, when he moved to California.
Eigner's writing
reflects his special perspective on the world, developing a distinctive style
to register his uniquely distanced vision of the world.
His first volume
of poetry From the Sustaining Air was published in 1953 by Robert Creeley. His
steady productivity resulted in numerous subsequent collections, including,
Another Time in Fragments (1967), Things Stirring/ Together/ or Far Away
(1974), now there's-a-morning-hulk of the sky (1981), and Waters/Places/ A Time
(1983). His short stories are collected in Farther North (1969) and his prose
writings in Country/ Harbour/ Quiet/ Act/ Around: Selected Prose (1978) and
Area/ Lights/ Heights: Selected Writings, 1954 -1989. His latest book of poetry
is Windows/ Walls/ Yard/ Ways (1994), but at the time of his death he had just
completed work on a new collection Readiness/ Enough/ Depends/ On, now
forthcoming.
Highlights and
Research Potential of the Eigner Papers:
The papers
include the typescripts of all of Eigner's poetry, arranged in sequence by the
author, many with holographic notations by Eigner. Also included is
correspondence to Eigner arranged alphabetically by the correspondent's name.
Major correspondents include from Cid Corman, Clayton Eshleman, Arthur
McFarland, James Weil, Douglas Woolf, and many others.
There are also
copies of some of Eigner's return correspondence.
Bibliography of
Larry Eigner
Leif, Irving P.
Larry Eigner. Metuchen, N.J. : Scarecrow Press, 1989.
Selected
Biographical and Critical Works on Eigner
Dictionary of
Literary Biography (Detroit, MI: Gale Research) vol. 5, p229 - 234.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last Modified: February 28, 1997
Stanford
University Libraries/Academic Information Resources To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Career
of Gregory Corso (1930 - )
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Career of Gregory
Corso (1930 - )
American poet and
author, Gregory Corso was born in New York City in 1930.
In and out of
jails as a youth, Corso is largely self-taught through his extensive reading
and travel. An influential member of the Beat generation, Corso is closely
associated with Allen Ginsberg, whom he first met in New York in 1950. His
first published poems appeared in the Harvard Advocate in 1954, followed by his
first book, The Vestal Lady on Brattle and Other Poems (1955). His 1958 work
Gasoline, introduced by Ginsberg, marks the beginning of his long association
with San Francisco's City Lights Bookstore and the Bay Area in general, which
figures prominently in much of Corso's work.
During the late 50s
and early 60s Corso published several other books of poetry, including Bomb
(1958), The Happy Birthday of Death (1960) and Long Live Man (1962). Such later
verse as Herald of the Autochthonic Spirit (1981) was less well received, but
Corso found a new generation of readers with Mindfield: New and Selected Poems
(1989).
Gregory Corso
Notebooks and Papers
Size: 1.5 linear
ft.
Call Number: M877
Content: The
collection contains 20 holograph notebooks and other manuscripts, dating from
the early 1980s into the 1990s. Totaling approximately 2500 manuscript pages,
the papers offer a wealth of primary source material, indicative of Corso's
working process. Notebooks include random notations, drafts of poetry,
drawings, and collages. Many of the manuscript pages are not identifiable as
part of larger published works and are unpublished. The collection also
includes some books, interviews, photographs, and correspondence with Allen
Ginsberg.
Corso, Gregory.
Papers, 1960-1970.
Size: 1 linear
ft.
Call Number: M721
Content:
Holograph manuscripts of poetry and prose somewhat fragmentary in nature. Many
of the manuscript pages are unidentifiable as part of larger works. The
correspondence includes both professional and highly personal material.
Bibliography of
Corso
Wilson, Robert A. A Bibliography of the
Works of Gregory
Corso,1954-1965. (Phoenix Book Shop, 1966)
Selected
Biographical and Critical Works on Corso:
Cherkovski, Neeli. Whitman's Wild
Children: Profiles of Ten
Contemporary American Poets. (Lapis Press,
1988)
Knight, Arthur, and Kit Knight, eds. The
Beat Vision: A Primary
Sourcebook . (Paragon House, 1987)
Selerie, Gavin, ed. Gregory Corso.
(London: Binnacle, 1982)
Stephenson, Gregory. Exiled Angel : A
Study of the Work of Gregory
Corso. (London: Hearing Eye, 1989)
Related
Manuscript Collections at Stanford
Ginsberg, Allen.
Papers. Special Collections
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last Modified:
February 28, 1997
Stanford
University Libraries/Academic Information Resources To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: boho url
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
This for benefit
of newcomers and as reminder for the rest when the list action is down:
bohemian list is
rich with ancillary (? not to their authors ?) webs that provide a rich context
for list interactions.
Among the
pioneering webworks are Levi Asher's Queensboro Ballads at
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
Levi is, of
course, also the editor of Coffeehousebook: Works from the Web at
www.coffeehousebook.com, and of Literary Kicks at
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
I had written
more about Q. Ballads and then my email crashed. Suffice it to say it's one of
the first, one of the best, and more than worth a look.
Bohemian Ink is,
of course, at
http://www.levity.com/corduroy/
Dan Barth's Ukiah
Haiku is at
http://www.rahul.net/jag/volume1/zine3/ukiah_haiku.html
Luther Jett's
Naked Angels! is at
http://members.aol.com/magendror/freebird/entrance.html
Peter Landers
sites includes "Apostrophe" at http://www.frontiernet.com/~landers/
Tami Denease's
fine work at
http://www.frontiernet.com/~tamid/
John Amato's
site, including the new e version of Articulata, lies at
http://web.hudsonet.com/~amajo3/
Greg Severance's
Bulldog Breath lives at http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
Brian Carpenter's
work at http://paul.spu.edu/~bricarp/poems.html and, in part, at http://www.rahul.net/jag/
Michael Stutz's
appropriately UNIXish URL lies at http://dsl.org/m/
Luther has a good
intro to all of the above at
http://members.aol.com/magendror/freebird/links.html
Ron Whitehead has
works at http://www.rahul.net/jag/ and I understand soon enough at
http://www.levity.com/corduroy/
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: 10
reasons
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:08:14 -0400
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Anna Tulou <ltulou@EROLS.COM>
Subject: being French
X-To: alove@warren-wilson.edu,
iambeth535@aol.com, Trabue@msn.com,
McClary@juno.com,
Hkeighron@gems.vcu.edu, cmjones@mail.smith.edu,
dsmit6id@mwcgw.mwc.edu,
DCavitt@aol.com, bowlingpea@aol.com,
raisin22@juno.com,
agent.roslund@swipnet.se,
c2mxmans@fre.fsu.umd.edu,
jlyon@mca.org, NFCORP@erols.com,
luvfhocky@aol.com,
uptonfam@erols.com, filzjl@jmu.edu,
knorth@concentric.net,
schtuff@firechat.com, mkashton@juno.com,
Kibles16@aol.com,
saxfone4@aol.com,
MVICCELLIO@agnes.agnesscott.edu, mmeachum@roanoke.edu,
megamoot@aol.com,
atic@ack.powernet.co.uk, bomblea@aol.com,
bmamson@erols.com, plop@aol.com,
swindsor@vt.edu,
ChiliVB@aol.com, zavodny@EURE.de,
vivianh419@aol.com,
acloninge@aol.com,
divski@aol.com, tmquash@rmwc.edu,
will_is_groovy@hotmail.com,
Ktwilley@juno.com,
nickelby@interserv.com,
shannp@sprynet.com Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm proud of my
heritage, thank you very much!
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING FRENCH :
> ---------------------------------
> 1. When
speaking fast you can make yourself sound gay
> 2. Yet to
experience the joy of winning the world cup for the first time
> 3. You get
to eat insect food like snails and frog's legs
> 4. If
there's a war you can surrender really early
> 5. You don't
have to read the subtitles on those late night
films on
> Channel 4.
> 6. You can
test your own nuclear weapons in other people's countries
> 7. You can
be ugly and still become a famous film star
> 8. Allow
Germans to march up and down your most famous street
> humiliating your sense of national pride
> 9. You don't
have to bother with toilets, just shit in the street
> 10. People
think you're a great lover even when you're not
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING AMERICAN :
> -----------------------------------
> 1. You can
have a woman president without electing her
> 2. You can
spell colour wrong and get away with it
> 3. You can
call Budweiser beer
> 4. You can
be a crook and still be president
> 5. If you've
got enough money you can get elected to do anything
> 6. If you
can breathe you can get a gun
> 7. You can
invent a new public holiday every year
> 8. You can
play golf in the most hideous clothes ever made and nobody
> seems to care.
> 9. You get
to call everyone you've never met "buddy"
> 10. You can
think you're the greatest nation on earth.
> 11. When
you're not.
> 12. At all.
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING ENGLISH :
> ----------------------------------
> 1. Two World
Wars and One World Cup doo-dah doo-dah
> 2. Warm beer
> 3. You get
to confuse everyone with the rules of cricket
> 4. You get
to accept defeat graciously in major sporting events
> 5. Union
jack underpants
> 6. Water
shortages guaranteed every single summer
> 7. You can
live in the past and imagine you are still a world power.
> 8. Bathing
once a week-whether you need to or not
> 9. Ditto
changing underwear
> 10. Beats
being Welsh.
> 11. Or
Scottish
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING ITALIAN :
> ----------------------------------
> 1. In-depth
knowledge of bizarre pasta shapes
> 2.
Unembarrassed to wear fur.
> 3. No need
to worry about tax returns
> 4. Glorious
military history... well, till about 400 a.d.
> 5. Can wear
sunglasses inside
> 6. Political
stability
> 7. Flexible
working hours
> 8. Live near
the Pope
> 9. Can spend
hours braiding girlfriend's armpit hair
> 10. Country
run by Sicilian murderers
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING SPANISH :
> ----------------------------------
> 1. Glorious
history of killing South American tribes
> 2. The rest
of Europe thinks Africa begins at the Pyrenees
> 3. You get
your beaches invaded by Germans, Danes, Brits etc
> 4. The rest
of your country is already invaded by Moroccans
> 5. Everybody
else makes crap paella and claims it's the real thing
> 6. Honesty
> 7. Only sure
way of bedding a woman is to dress up in stupid, tight
> clothes and risk your life in front of
bulls
> 8. You get
to eat bulls' testicles
> 9. Gibraltar
> 10.
Supported Argentina in Falklands War.
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING GERMAN :
> ---------------------------------
> 1.
> 2.
> 3.
> 4.
> 5.
> 6.
> 7.
> 8.
> 9.
> 10. In-built
sense of pacifism
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING INDIAN :
> ---------------------------------
> 1. Chicken
Madras
> 2. Lamb
Passanda
> 3. Onion
Bhaji
> 4. Bombay
Potato
> 5. Chicken
Tikka Masala
> 6. Rogan
Josh
> 7. Popadoms
> 8. Chisken
Dopiaza
> 9. Meat
Boona
> 10.
Kingfisher lager
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING WELSH:
> -------------------------------
>
> 1. You've
got to be having a laugh, haven't you?!?!?!?
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING IRISH :
> --------------------------------
> 1. Guinness
> 2. 18
children because you can't use contraceptives
> 3. You can
get into a fight just by marching down someone's road
> 4. Pubs
never close
> 5. Can use
Papal edicts on contraception passed in the second Vatican
> Council of 1968 to persuade your girlfriend
that you can't have
> sex with a condom on.
> 6. No one
can ever remember the night before
> 7. Kill
people you don't agree with
> 8. Stew
> 9. More
Guinness
> 10. Eating
stew and drinking Guinness in an Irish pub at 3 in the
> morning after a bout of sectarian
violence.
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING CANADIAN :
> -----------------------------------
> 1. It beats
being an American.
> 2. Only
country to successfully invade the US and burn its capital to
> the ground.
> 3. You can
play hockey 12 months a year, outdoors.
> 4. Only
country to successfully invade the US and burn its capital to
> the ground.
> 5. Where
else can you travel 1000 miles over fresh water in a canoe?
> 6. A political
leader can admit to smoking pot and his/her popularity
> ratings will rise.
> 7. Only
country to successfully invade the US and burn its capital to
> the ground.
> 8. Kill
Grizzly bears with huge fuckoff shotguns and cover your house in
> their skins
> 9.
Own-an-Eskimo scheme.
> 10. Only
country to successfully invade the US and burn its capital to
> the ground
>
>
> TOP 10
REASONS FOR BEING AUSTRALIAN:
> ------------------------------------
> 1. Know your
great-grand-dad was a murdering bastard that no civilised
> nation on earth wanted.
> 2. Fosters
Lager
> 3.
Dispossess Aborigines who have lived in your country for 40,000 years
> because you think it belongs to you.
> 4.
Annihilate England every time you play them at cricket.
> 5. Tact and
sensitivity.
> 6. Bondi
Beach.
> 7. Other
beaches.
> 8. Liberated
attitude to homosexuals
> 9. Drinking
cold lager on the beach
> 10. Having a bit of a swim and then drink some
cold lager on the beach.
>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Anna Tulou
Ltulou@erols.com
"Anything
that is too stupid to be spoken is sung."
-Voltaire
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Marie
Countryman <country@SOVER.NET> Subject:on the bus to meet the bohemians
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 09:09:38 +0000
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET> Subject:
on the bus to meet the bohemians MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
ROAD TRIP TO MEET
FELLOW BOHEMIANS,
or, the greyhound
night of the soul
OCCTOBER 1997
Prologue:
Howl with a
WhineChaser
i saw the best part of my mind destroyed by
sleep deprivation,
starving
hysterical naked
dragging myself through the greyhound
stations looking for my
angry luggage
angelheaded hipster burning for the ancient
heavenly connection to
louisville and back
in the stary dynamo in the greyhound
machinery at night
who poverty and tatters and howl-lowed eyed
sat up wishing to
be smoking
marijuana in the supernatural darkness of
cramped seats and
angry
drivers hurtling us past the tops of cities,
leaving me to contemplating bladder control,
and patience.
who bared my ass to heaven while trying to
take a leak outside
of
cramped and longlined service stops,
wishing for the toilet paper,
who passed through yet more bus stations
with burning red eyes
hallucinating ohio and blake-light tragedy
for vertigo when
reading
on the road
who was expelled from the port authority
waiting room by angry
mop and
broom holding scholars of the war against
further grime,
who refused to cower in unshaven rooms in
underwear, praying
for enough
money to burn in wastebaskets and listening
to the terror
through the
aisles
who proclaims the aisles holy!!
i'm with you in l'ville, perry, as you
stand on one leg with fez on head to prove sobriety sufficent
for one more vodka!
i'm with you in l'ville, luther, in your
shock and amazement staring at our howl-
loween power
pumpkin!
i'm with you and bickering, and awestruck by
your readings, jim, kitchen
table and
twice told
i'm with everyone, recordingnon-secret tapes
of lives and travels of
fellow
busmates
but also the rantings of the mad poets at
the kitchen table, and the fine rantings at the twice told!
all are holy!
even bus drivers are holy!
paranoid and
psychotic and angry holy busmen!
holy! holy! holy!
(27 hrs down and
24 hrs back, my own insomniacathon of the dark
soul of
greyhound night).
_____
tales and
travelers:
the journey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And so i go, like lamb to the slaughter, shipped in box
cars disguised as bus down to the bohemian ink/published in heaven event of
spoken word and music.
Almost paralyzed
by fear of public speaking with those so practiced and wise, newbie eyed and
hesitant, such small feelings mirrored in my external universe of the bus
station, here in Montpelier, capitol citiy of VT's greyhound or rather VT
Transit station: you see, it's a trailer, no inside seating available, in fact,
it's more like a box car, or, more
accurately, two box cars clamped together, with tradkway made of highway
abutment heavy concete blocks to perch on, weathered and rusted nails and all.
Just as poh a
white trash station you could fine in any appalacian small town.
As i said, i'm
off to the louisville rant for bohemian ink and literary renaissance, to read
at the twice told coffee house event, to meet my fellow fellaheen souled
bohemians, my brother poets on the net. The brainchild of Chris Ritter birthed
by Ron Whitehead and all bohemes who could make the journey, this event looms
large for many of us in this community of poets and other artistic
endeavorings, coming soon after the first bohemian meeting at the falls in
Patterson, NJ this past summer.
A sharing of
opinions, life events, poetry and good humor, about to take on corporeal form
in l'ville.
So, at last the
bus arrives, half hour late, and i jump aboard after lugging luggage into bowls
of the beast. It takes us 5 hours to reach Albany, as the bus winds its leisurely
way through every hill and dale in the countryside, stopping at bus stops,
churches, dairy queens and more, offiicial bus stops up here in the mountains.
It's autumn, it's beautiful.
Five hours later,
in the beauty of the autumnal day, we finally roll into Albany and i totter off
in search of flush toilets and companionship. I am crazy with the need to have
a conversation. I have my tape recorder out , and I turn to Jesse Jackson, a
fine looking black man with some grimness around the eyes. I ask him to record
his travels and anything else he cares to tell me. in his own words, jesse
jackson obliges:
"Well,"
said he,
"i just
packed up all my stuff
i walked out on
the best job i've ever had, (fiber optics)
because i got to
get back to Huston
that's right
lock stock and
barrel,
i got to get back
to Huston
i got to
reconcile with my wife,
my wife back in
Huston.
you see, because
things are
pretty rocky
right now.
it seems like
it's going to be one
long and
ballistic trip-
my mind
my mind, it keeps
racing ahead
of me,
thinking of
everything waiting for me
when i get home.
(by the way,
you are a nice
person and i thank you
for talking to
me.
you have yourself
a good trip and all
yourself)."
I turn off the
recorder and we talk awhile, both of us stand guard over luggage as each makes
trips for bathrooms, for information, for food.
there is no food.
Soon the disembodied voice of the grey hound demands we stand in separate lines
to board our respective busses. we part, dragging our luggage as we wish good
luck and say goodbye.
The bus i board
is crowded. no opportunity for solitude and no extra room for all my stuff. I
am grimly searching for the next best thing when Estella beckons to me. Estella
a beautiful hispanic woman who will be
my bus mate throughout the night and into the next day. Estella at first tells
me she is too shy to talk into my recorder, but she does: "I'm from St
Albans, VT and i'm going to El Paso, Texas to pack up my mother and bring her
back north to live with me and my husband. I'm only staying the weekend, then,
with my mother, i'm coming right back - i've got to get back to work, my mother
won't travel alone." Estella is happy to have me as a seatmate.
she opens up a
bag,
spilling out into
our laps
grapes, tangerines,
bananas
and lots of red
licorice.
She shares freely
with me, and we settle in comfortably.
Estella has a
happy soul and a deep feeling of family, which she also shares freely.
I muse in the night about these two people who
took a chance and talked to me, of their need for family and attatchment, of
two people heading to Texas, on separate busses, going home, bringing family
home.
Family.
I myself have
little family, i see my journey as a search for community, an extended family,
if you will, of poets and magical thinkers.
Estella changes
busses at 9am the next day, and i finally pass out for a few hours, awakening
as the bus pulls into the louisville greyhound station, and frees me from the
doggedness of my travails and travel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lousiville
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Gardner is
there to greet me with the best of southern hospitality; presenting me
with a map of the
city
antique post
cards
lunch at the
Twice Told
a brief tour of
the city
a bedroom to
myself,
into which i bombdive upon arrival,
morning coffee.
in addition, the
kitchen
is soon filled
with perry, then luther, the following day, full of laughter pomes and great
conversation, and somewhat drunken dumbshow antics
and friendship.
In addition, jim
provides me with escort back to bus station, while in between the greeting and
the send-off, we fill the days with talk
laughter
great readings
and performances
at the twice told
cafe.
A golden time,
the times i savor, when meeting instantly turns into comraderie, rapport, and
which extends to the meeting of the other performers at the twice told coffee
house. We meet Charlie from Amnesia Motel, and quickly swoop him up to join our
list community -I ceremonially present a puzzled Ron Whitehead with our power
pumpkin.
Despite plans for
howl-ing at the moon and other watering holes, we are so exhausted, we choose
sleep and breakfast over late night ale-full hours.
A goodbye
breakfast for Luther, with Ron betwixt and between dashing into parking lot to
shower us all with gifts: posters, chapbooks, spoken word CDs! Jim takes Perry and me for a tour of the
city, the dam, and fossils.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Going Home
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I leave the
following day, Jim again escorts me to the greyhound station. Again, the bus is
packed with little room and no chance of sitting alone. My eyes roam
desperately about, searching for a suitable seatmate for this 6 hr leg of my
journey. And then I see him: Tripper, a member of the Rainbow Family, all of 23 yrs old and on his own since the age of 12.
he is a lovely young man, tanned and with baby fat still in his round cheeks.
his eyes smile. he tells me he is on the way to join a commune of
Hare Krishnas in
Wheeling, west virginia. "i've been
damaged by my birth family," he tells me. Born illegitimate to mother with
madness, he was taken care of episodically by aunts and other women in his extended family, always told by
mother that it was his birth that ruined her life, alcoholic and emotionally
ill, she sought to lay the blame on him.
Tripper does not
go by his birth name. His name is a rainbow family name, and he now seeks
further family, community, spirituality with the Krishnas. Tripper did spend
time in louisville, nomadic by nature, prefers the countryside: "in
louisville i'd sleep all day and drink all night. the city, the city, it hurts
me to the point of needing to drink the sickness away...and all my friends were
vampires, but they did have good hearts."
I am again
reminded of my quest for community, rapport and support from poet friends. I
have always had a difficult relationship with my family, and to all extents and
purposes, have only a brother and his family left me as family. I've had a
stormy and thorny relationship with my brother, but my starry-eyed love for his
children, my neice and nephew, help us bridge the abyss that our parents
created.
My last stop
prior to returning to VT is to stay with his family in Rhode Island, to
celebrate my neice Jesse's 16th birthday. I love her so much it hurts at times.
So there we were,
Jessie Jackson, Estella, Tripper, and me - all searching for family ties, for
reconciliation, for love, for community.
I wish all of my
seatmates blessings. I feel myself blessed by this trip, this labor of love.
RANT ON, BOHEMIANS,
MY FRIENDS, MY FAMILY OF POETS!
James A. Gardner
Luther Jett
Perry Lindstrom
Christopher
Ritter
Paul McDonald
Ron Whitehead
and Charlie, from
Amnesia Motel.
and Derek
Beaulieu, whose labor of love was the creation of our poster.
and all who
performed and spoken word poets who shared stagetime with us.
and all of you
who could not attend.
Blessings on all.
and thanks.
mc
(I have photos of
performances, kitchen table and breakfast pictures, which can be inserted into
web page format) CHRIS RITTER: IF YOU HAVE READ THIS FAR, YOU KNOW I NEED TO
GET HOLD OF YOU. I HAVE YR TAPES, AND DO YOU WANT THIS FOR THE INK W/PHOTOS?
=====================================================================To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: BIG
address BOOKnotes
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
<PAUL@louisville.lib.ky.us>, Lee Ranaldo <Eyemote@aol.com>,
"John S. Hall"
<JOHNSHALL@aol.com>, Jim Gardner <jag@rahul.net>,
Jerry Aronson <JAR1945@aol.com>,
Jack Bowman
<dapoets@bright.net>, GPS <zero@dircon.co.uk>,
Dan Levy
<danlevy@levity.com>, Bob Holman <MouthMight@aol.com>,
Bil Brown
<bil@orca.sitesonthe.net>,
Anna Kiss <annakiss@coax.net>, Allen
Hougland <wolfe@voicenet.com> babu <dkpenn@oees.com>, Virgil
Balthrop <vwb@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>,
"tjardes, sue"
<tjardes@ups.edu>,
JTalley4n6@aol.com,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
Sherri <love_singing@msn.com>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu, SCOTT
HARRIS
<sharris@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>, Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
phares@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU,
pelliott@sunflower.com, "Meyer,
Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
"louden, allan"
<louden@wfu.edu>,
"lingel, dan"
<dlingel@why.net>,
brooklyn@netcom.com, kevin kuswa
<k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
john sloop
<sloopjm@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>,
"hingstman, david"
<dbhingst@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
gordo2
<jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
FtHaysdebate <Joeb@media-net.net>,
"Eric L. Krug"
<elkrug@kcnet.com>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
Ed Panetta
<EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>,
DRTUNA@aol.com, "Dr. Roald
Tweet x7467" <ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>,
"dilley, benita"
<bdilley@castle.cudenver.edu>,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>,
Dallas Perkins
<dperkins@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
culver <nculver@fwenc.com>,
Cori Dauber <cdauber@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>,
Bruce Gronbeck
<gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
"Beach@qconline.com"
<Beach@qconline.com>,
0Stine <StineKC@aol.com>
X-cc: kudebate <KUDEBATE-L@ukans.edu>,
Beat-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Aija Paegle
<aija@sfl-paic.lv>, Alexandra Nill <NILL@saatchisf.com>,
Allen Kuharski
<akuhars1@swarthmore.edu>, Amy Tan <Bubbazo@aol.com>,
Andrei Codrescu <ACodrescu@aol.com>,
Annie Wedekind <eice@www.uno.edu>,
"C. K. Williams"
<104514.2541@compuserve.com>,
Carolyn Forche
<cforchem@osf1.gmu.edu>,
Charity Bustamante
<cbustama@ucla.edu>,
Christine Carter <CCarter@aol.com>,
Clark Blaise
<clark-blaise@uiowa.edu>, Dan Levine <levine@sprynet.com>,
Daniel Simko <dsimko@nypl.org>, Dave
Cash <dave@gnofn.org>,
David Clark <dbclark@mbox.vol.cz>,
Dennis Beck <DCLBeck@aol.com>,
Eric Hoem <hoeme@mhcc.cc.or.us>,
Howard Shernoff
<aitch@mail.nevalink.ru>,
Jane Holwerda <holwerdajm@SLU.EDU>,
Jasper Bear
<jasperbear@worldnet.att.net>,
"Jean C. Lee"
<corpse@linknet.net>, Jill Juda <jjuda@schwab.com>,
Jonathan Stein
<jonathan@esc.iews.cz>,
"Joyce H. Carasa"
<jcarasa@descartes.ucsb.edu>,
Kate Wheeler <105551.2750@compuserve.com>,
Kevin Bowen
<bowen@umbsky.cc.umb.edu>, Kristine Hren <Renkah@aol.com>,
Laura Zam <zam@terminal.cz>, Liane
Martindale <liane@terminal.cz>,
Maria Alexandra Beech
<mab40@columbia.edu>,
Maria-Raquel Escober <INTL!ITI!8484@intl101.attmail.com>,
Mark Dennis
<71604.1017@compuserve.com>,
Mark Winegardner
<MWINEGARDNER@JCVAXA.jcu.edu>,
Michael Freed <cixous@aol.com>,
Michelle Mounts <atwork@mbox.vol.cz>,
Mikhail Iossel
<iosselm@idol.union.edu>,
Nicho Lowry <Pivoprosim@aol.com>,
Paul Lawrence <paul2@prysm.net>,
Rachel Levitsky <Raesky2@aol.com>,
Richard Read <Akajimbuck@aol.com>,
Robert Eversz <dedalus@terminal.cz>,
Roman Baratiak
<ART6BARA@UCSBVM.ucsb.edu>,
Ruti Teitel <teitelruti@aol.com>,
Sarah Richards Doerries
<sdoerri@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu>,
Tim Herwig
<herwi001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,
Tom Miller
<72230.2514@compuserve.com>, Tony Ozuna <tony.ozuna@ini.cz>,
Valerie Bronson <vbronson@aol.com>,
Virgil Suarez <vsuarez@english.fsu.edu>
Lavigne68@aol.com, Arindam Banerji
<ABanerji@exapps.com>,
zoedav@hotmail.com, "Christie,
Carl" <Carl_Christie@hunneman.com>,
cowles@whq.otis.utc.com,
schuster@umbsky.cc.umb.edu,
Dorothy Davis <74353.2721@CompuServe.COM>,
henryluce@henryluce.com,
dorothydavis@henryluce.com,
dreber@hqfaus01.unicef.org (Deborah Reber),
ROEFARO.JOHN@BOSTON.VA.GOV,
"Stein, Ellen" <E.STEIN@fordfound.org>,
weiner_e@umbsky.cc.umb.edu,
Erik_Borne@segue.com,
Eymund Diegel <eymund@panix.com>,
FRANGOSG@aol.com, MHyman1060@aol.com,
jamesm@thecia.net, Joseph Cavicchi
<cavicchi@mit.edu>,
Katia Perea
<PereaK@newschool.edu>, lsp@interactive.net,
liz@2cats.com (Liz Borne), flourenso@CULLDYK.COM,
cmsmakar@uga.cc.uga.edu,
"Mario_Rodriguez" <mario_rodriguez@liz.com>,
amarks@clemson.edu, JOHN MULROONEY
<jm244@is5.nyu.edu>,
k8james@ix.netcom.com, MrRafa@aol.com,
gimmewig@bellsouth.net,
NuYoPoMan@aol.com, ADAM_PAIGE@yr.com,
Arhonto@aol.com,
Zlatko Vasilkoski
<ZLATKOK@neu.edu>, bvernile@lynx.dac.neu.edu,
CRNet@aol.com, rdavis@learningco.com,
henryluce@henryluce.com,
Virginia@dongrn.com, Beckyr23@aol.com,
maria@ibm.net,
dimauro@rockvax.rockefeller.edu, MissFury@aol.com, DEEEPSPACE@aol.com,
wgreen@forbes.com,
hillh@rockvax.rockefeller.edu,
dbasden@kinderhook.com, chrisp@mcm.com
Anastasios Kozaitis <kozaita@rockvax.rockefeller.edu>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Subject:
Chicken Rhetoric
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Subject: Chicken
Rhetoric
******************************
>
>>
>>
QUESTION: Why did the chicken cross the road?
>>
>> Answers:
>>
>> Pat Buchanan:
>> To steal a job from a decent, hard-working
American.
>>
>> Machiavelli:
>> The point is that the chicken crossed the
road. Who cares why?
>> The ends of crossing the road justify
whatever motive there was.
>>
>> Thomas de Torquemada:
>> Give me ten minutes with the chicken and
I'll find out.
>>
>> Timothy Leary:
>> Because that's the only kind of trip the
Establishment would let it
>> take.
>>
>> Carl Jung:
>> The confluence of events in the cultural
gestalt necessitated that
>> individual chickens cross roads. This brought such occurrences
>> into being.
>>
>> John Locke:
>> Because he was exercising his natural right
to liberty.
>>
>> Albert Camus:
>> It doesn't matter; the chicken's actions
have no meaning except to
>> him.
>>
>> The Bible:
>> And God came down from the heavens, and He
said unto the chicken,
>> "Thou shalt cross the road." And
the Chicken crossed the road, and
>> there was much rejoicing.
>>
>> Fox Mulder:
>> It was a government conspiracy.
>>
>> Freud:
>> The fact that you thought that the chicken
crossed the road reveals
>> your underlying sexual insecurity.
>>
>> Darwin:
>> Chickens, over great periods of time, have
been naturally selected
>> in such a way that they are now genetically
predisposed to cross
>> roads
>>
>> Darwin #2:
>> It was the logical next step after coming
down from the trees.
>>
>> Richard M. Nixon:
>> The chicken did not cross the road.
>> I repeat, the chicken did not cross the
road.
>>
>> Oliver Stone:
>> The question is not "Why did the
chicken cross the road?" but is
>> rather "Who was crossing the road at
the same time whom we
>> overlooked in our haste to observe the
chicken crossing?"
>>
>> Jerry Seinfeld:
>> Why does anyone cross a road? I mean, why
doesn't anyone ever think
>> to ask, "What the heck was this
chicken doing walking around all
>> over the place anyway?"
>>
>> Martin Luther King, Jr.:
>> I envision a world where all chickens will
be free to cross roads
>> without having their motives called into
question.
>>
>> Immanuel Kant:
>> The chicken, being an autonomous being,
chose to cross the road of
>> his own free will.
>>
>> Grandpa:
>> In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken
crossed the road. Someone
>> told us that the chicken had crossed the
road, and that was good
>> enough for us.
>>
>> Dirk Gently (Holistic Detective):
>> I'm not exactly sure why, but right now
I've got a horse in my
>> bathroom.
>>
>> Bill Gates:
>> I have just released the new Chicken 2000,
which will both cross
>> roads AND balance your checkbook, though
when it divides 3 by 2 it
>> gets 1.4999999999.
>>
>> M.C.Escher:
>> That depends on which plane of reality the
chicken was on at the
>> time.
>>
>> George Orwell:
>> Because the government had fooled him into
thinking that he was
>> crossing the road of his own free will,
when he was really only
>> serving their interests.
>>
>> Colonel Sanders:
>> I missed one?
>>
>> Plato:
>> For the greater good.
>>
>> Aristotle:
>> To actualize its potential.
>>
>> Karl Marx:
>> It was a historical inevitability.
>>
>> Nietzsche:
>> Because if you gaze too long across the
Road, the Road gazes also
>> across you.
>>
>> B.F. Skinner:
>> Because the external influences, which had
pervaded its sensorium
>> from birth, had caused it to develop in
such a fashion that it
>> would tend to cross roads, even while
believing these actions to be
>> of its own freewill.
>>
>> Jean-Paul Sartre:
>> In order to act in good faith and be true
to itself, the chicken
>> found it necessary to cross the road.
>>
>> Albert Einstein:
>> Whether the chicken crossed the road or the
road crossed the
>> chicken depends upon your frame of
reference.
>>
>> Pyrrho the Skeptic:
>> What road?
>>
>> The Sphinx:
>> You tell me.
>>
>> Buddha:
>> If you ask this question, you deny your own
chicken nature.
>>
>> Emily Dickenson:
>> Because it could not stop for death.
>>
>> Ralph Waldo Emerson:
>> It didn't cross the road; it transcended
it.
>>
>> Ernest Hemingway:
>> To die. In the rain.
>>
>> Saddam Hussein:
>> This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and
we were quite justified
>> in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it.
>>
>> Saddam Hussein #2:
>> It is the Mother of all Chickens.
>>
>> Joseph Stalin:
>> I don't care. Catch it.
I need its eggs to make my omelet.
>>
>> Dr. Seuss:
>> Did the chicken cross the road?
>> Did he cross it with a toad?
>> Yes the chicken crossed the road,
>> but why he crossed, I've not been told!
>>
>> O.J.:
>> It didn't.
I was playing golf with it at the time.
>>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Published in Heaven Chapbook Series & Posters
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Published in
Heaven Chapbook Series
#1 W. Loran Smith - THE BOY WHO BECAME A BOOK
#2 Lawrence Ferlinghetti - TRAVELS IN
AMERICA DESERTA #3 Allen Ginsberg - ON
VISITING FATHER AND FRIENDS #4 Diane di
Prima - THE MASK IS THE PATH OF THE STAR #5
Amiri Baraka - TOM ASS CLARENCE
#6 E. Ethelbert Miller - THE FIRE THIS TIME
#7 Ron Whitehead & Kent Fielding -
THE REVOLUTION IS ABOUT TO BEGIN #8
Carmen Embry - WHEN SANIBEL BECOMES YOU #9 Jim Wayne Miller - BRIAR, TRAVELING #10 Frederick Smock - BLOOM STREET
#11 Annie Wedekind - HOME RIVER, WITH HORNS
#12 Ron Seitz - BAD MEAT
#13 Michael Burkard - MY BROTHER MAKES A TOAST
#14 Michelle Boisseau - SOME WILL TELL
YOU #15 Gray Zeitz - 7 POEMS
#16 Robert Hunter - NO APOCALYPSE
#17 Carrie Michaelle Wright - BEING A STRIPPER
#18 Gregory Corso - GREGORIAN RANT
#19 Duncan Barlow - THE DEAD IN CHENOWETH
CEMETERY #20 Jeffrey Skinner - THE
ATLANTIC
#21 Michael Waters - POEMS
#22 Douglas Brinkley - MONTANA HAIL
#23 Anne Waldman - ANCESTOR ANCESTOR
#24 Brian Foye - MR. VU
#25 Brett Ralph - 27 YEARS
#26 W. Loran Smith - AVERNUS
#27 Diane di Prima - FOR ITS OWN SAKE: POEMS,
INTERVIEW, PHOTOGRAPHS #28 Allen
Ginsberg - POEMS, INTERVIEW, PHOTOGRAPHS #29
Lawrence Ferlinghetti - POEM, INTERVIEW, PHOTOGRAPHS #30 Gregory Corso - POEMS, INTERVIEW, PHOTOGRAPHS
#31 Various Writers - THE TIME FALLING
BODIES #32 Bil Brown - ELLIVISUOL
#33 George Eklund - THE SORROW OF THE KING
#34 Mark Forman & Krista Nichols -
MIDWESTERN VALENTINE #35 Laura Loran -
BODILY FLUIDS
#36 Marcia Maynard - LINING UP FOR LUNCH #37 Nickole Brown - MUD
#38 Umar Williams - BLUE IS FOR PARTY GIRLS
#39 Jordan Green - STORIES ABOUT MACK-O
#40 Allen Ginsberg & Gordon Ball -
LETTERS, POEMS, & ESSAY #41 Bob
Rosenthal - VIBURNUM
#42 Diane Wald - MY HAT THAT WAS DREAMING
#43 Rashida Ismaili - ELEGIES
#44 Meredith Little - PERSEPHONE RISING #45 Amiri Baraka - HEATHENS AND REVOLUTIONARY ART
#46 William S. Burroughs - PHOTOS AND
REMEMBERING JACK KEROUAC #47 Ray McNiece
- THE ROAD THAT CARRIED ME HERE #48 Knut
Hamsun & Arthur Joseph Slavin - FROM THE UNCONSCIOUS LIFE OF THE MIND
(Hamsun); THE WOUND, THE WORLD, AND THE WORD: NARRATING CONSCIOUSNESS AND THE
CONTINUITY OF HAMSUN'S AUTHORSHIP (Slavin) #49
John Updike - POEM BEGUN ON THURSDAY, OCTOBER 14, 1993 #50 Jim Carroll - POEM, INTERVIEW, PHOTOGRAPHS
#51 Thomas Merton - THE HARMONIES OF
EXCESS #52 Sarah G. Epstein - FIVE
HUNDRED THOUSAND LOST LIVES #53 James
Laughlin - UNTIL THE SPRING BREAKS #54
Ron Whitehead & Kent Fielding - REVOLUTION #55 Nancye Browning - SONG OF HEALING, DANCE OF
JOY: POETIC COMMENTARY ON ELIE WIESEL
#56 Lawrence Ferlinghetti - IN SEARCH OF EROS
#57 Andy Warhol and Dan Pope - IRIS AND
FACTORY PHOTOS ('98) #58 Jim McCrary -
D[R]AWN
#59 Robert Peters - FUVM: GARDYLOO! ('98)
#61 Barbara Crawford and Ron Whitehead -
BOUQUET AND NUDE REFLECTION ('98)
#62 Lee Ranaldo & Leah Singer - MOROCCAN
JOURNAL: JAJOUKA EXCERPT #64 Paul
McDonald - RIDING WITH THE ANGELS ('98) #67
Brother Patrick Hart - PATMOS JOURNAL: IN SEARCH OF THOMAS MERTON WITH
ROBERT LAX
#68 Jacque Parsley - ('98)
#70 Brother Patrick Hart - ISRAEL JOURNAL: A
TRAPPIST PILGRIM IN THE HOLY LAND ('98)
#71 Ed Sanders - ('98)
#72 Ron Seitz - ('98)
#77 Rand Brandes - BALEFIRES
#79 Frank Messina - SONG FOR THE POET & OTHER
POEMS ('98) #81 Denis Mahoney - DEATHPIG
('98)
submit inquiries
regarding Published in Heaven & Ring Tarigh Book, Poster, Chapbook, Audio
Series or the literary renaissance events to Ron Whitehead
gimmewig@bellsouth.net or Denis Mahoney hasan@riconnect.com
Published in
Heaven Poster Series
#1 Diane di Prima - RANT
#2 Jack Kerouac - TANGIER 1957
#3 RANT for the literary renaissance
INSOMNIACATHON 1993 #4 Seamus Heaney -
A DOG WAS CRYING TO-NIGHT IN WICKLOW ALSO #5
Lawrence Ferlinghetti - A BUDDHA IN THE WOODPILE #6 Anne Waldman - GUARDIAN & SCRIBE
#7 RANT for the literary renaissance RANT EATS
NEW YORK CITY EATS THE BEATS INSOMNIACATHON
#8 Allen Ginsberg - COSMOPOLITAN GREETINGS
#9 Amiri Baraka - HEATHENS
#10 William S. Burroughs - REMEMBERING JACK
KEROUAC #11 RANT for the literary
renaissance INSOMNIACATHON 1994 #12 John
Updike - POEM BEGUN ON THURSDAY, OCTOBER 14, 1993 AT O'HARE AIRPORT, TERMINAL
3, AROUND SIX O'CLOCK P.M.
#13 Jim Carroll - 8 FRAGMENTS FOR KURT COBAIN
#14 Wendell Berry - MANIFESTO: THE MAD
FARMER LIBERATION FRONT #15 Thomas
Merton - THE HARMONIES OF EXCESS #16
Robert Hunter - NO APOCALYPSE
#17 His Holiness The Dalai Lama - NEVER GIVE UP
#18 Ron Whitehead - SAN FRANCISCO, MAY
1993 #19 Dr. Hunter S. Thompson - HE WAS
A CROOK (Nixon Obituary) #20 BONO -
AMERICAN DAVID
#21 Lawrence Ferlinghetti - TRAVELS IN AMERICA
DESERTA #22 Lee Ranaldo - BLOOMINGTON,
INDIANA: AUTUMN #23 Herbert Huncke -
AGAIN, THE HOSPITAL #24 James Laughlin -
THE KITCHEN CLOCK #25 Kent Fielding -
THE HAIR-CUT
#26 Eithne Strong - THINKING OF KEVIN MCALEER
DERRIDA AND HOGAN SHEA #27 Gregory Corso
- GREGORIAN RANT
#28 Allen Ginsberg - VISITING FATHER &
FRIENDS #29 Cathal O'Searcaigh - THE
CLAY PIPES (translated by Seamus Heaney.
Irish &
English texts)
#30 Jack Kerouac - DAYDREAMS FOR GINSBERG
#31 Dr. Hunter S. Thompson - KICKING
NIXON WHILE HE WAS UP #32 Jack Kerouac -
SAN FRANCISCO BLUES #13 & #14 #33
Ron Whitehead - I WILL NOT BOW DOWN #34
Ron Seitz - THOMAS MERTON
#35 Robert Lax - TURNING THE JUNGLE INTO A GARDEN
WITHOUT DESTROYING A SINGLE FLOWER
#36 Edvard Munch - THE URN: MUNCH & WOMAN
#37 Denis Mahoney - THE REVOLUTION OF
EVERYDAY LIFE #38 Andy Warhol - BOUQUET
(painting)
#39 President Jimmy Carter - PLAINS
#40 Jan Kerouac - NATASHA
#41 David Amram - THIS SONG'S FOR YOU JACK
#42 E. Ethelbert Miller - TAMILA NASRIN;
ROY CAMPANELLA: JANUARY, 1958; AVIATOR BESSIE COLEMAN: 1926
#43 Diane di Prima - GOOD CLEAN FUN
#44 Leon Driskell - MY SCIENCE-FRIEND HAS GIVEN
ME THE STARS #45 President Jimmy Carter
- A PRESIDENT EXPRESSES CONCERN ON A VISIT TO WESTMINSTER ABBEY
#46 Cayce Cyr - METTA MORPHEUS ('98)
#47 Barbara Crawford and Ron Whitehead - BOUQUET
AND NUDE REFLECTION ('98)
#48 Douglas Brinkley - DEHYDRATED DAWNS AT CAFE
DU MONDE #49 Ed Sanders - HYMN TO
LEONARDO: A POEM WRITTEN TO PERFORM WITH THE LISA LYRE ('98)
#50 Jacque Parsley - ANGEL IN REPOSE ('98)
#51 Ron Whitehead - Europe Tour PR
Poster #52 Published in Heaven &
Bohemian Ink present RANT for the literary renaissance Music & Poetry 1997
#53 John Tytell - WALT WHITMAN AND THE ANTINOMIAN
TRADITION ('98) #54 Frank Messina - SONG
FOR THE POET ('98) #55 Amiri Baraka -
WHEN MILES SPLIT! ('98) #56 Michael
Waters - GREEN ASH, RED MAPLE, BLACK GUM ('98) #57 Rita Dove - THREE DAYS OF FOREST, A RIVER,
FREE #58 Steve Dalachinsky - IN THE BOOK
OF ICE #4 (DEMOCRACY) ('98) #59 Jordan
Green - THIS CITY IS OURS: MAY DAY NEW YORK CITY ('98) #60 Hersch Silverman - DEATH SENTENCE: A RANT FOR
THE HOMELESS ('98) #61 Cathal
O'Searcaigh - TO JACK KEROUAC (Irish & English texts) ('98) #62 Diane Wald - THIS IS NOT A REAL WINDOW ('98)
#63 Annie McClanahan - ('98)
#64 Mickey Hess - HAVING A HELL OF A TIME IN
GUATEMALA ('98) #65 Hunter S. Thompson -
OPEN LETTER: SAN FRANCISCO. OCTOBER 25, 1960 #66 Lawrence Ferlinghetti - 'HISTORY IS MADE OF
THE LIES OF THE VICTORS' ('98)
#67 INSOMNIACATHON 1996: VOICES WITHOUT
RESTRAINT: NEW ORLEANS #68 Ron Seitz -
UPON FIRST MEETING MERTON ('98) #69 Ron
Whitehead - GIMME BACK MY WIG: THE HOUND DOG TAYLOR BLUES #70 De Dichters uit Epibreren (The Poets of
Epibreren) - (Dutch & English texts
('98)
#71 Jim Wayne Miller - ('98)
#72 Didi de Paris - (Dutch & English texts) ('98) #73 Pete Seeger - STILL SEARCHING ('98) #74 W. Loran Smith - ('98)
#75 Ana Christy - WALK TO THE BEAT DESPITE THE
HEAT OF FAHRENHEIT 451 ('98)
#76 Kent Fielding - THE REVOLUTION IS ABOUT TO
BEGIN ('98) #77 Michael Leonard - DRUNK
AND BELLIGERENT AT THE KENTUCKY DERBY ('98) #78
Rani - BIG WOMEN BIG SHOES ('98)
#79 ollamh hasan hasan - THE RING TARIGH -
DECLARATION #9 ('98) #80 Yoko Ono - REVELATION
#81 Bob Rosenthal - ('98)
#82 Harlan Hubbard - FROM PAYNE HOLLOW: LIFE ON
THE FRINGE OF SOCIETY ('98)
#83 Mike Watt - ('98)
#84 Hunter S. Thompson - A GENERATION OF JOURNALISTS ('98) #85 Lawrence Ferlinghetti - THE STREET'S KISS
('98) #86 Hunter S. Thompson Tribute
event poster #87 OMPHALOS CD promotion
poster
#88 Diane di Prima event poster
#89 Allen Ginsberg event poster
#90 Amiri Baraka event poster
#91 Lawrence Ferlinghetti event poster #92 Robert Hunter event poster
#93 Gregory Corso event poster
#94 Eithne Strong event poster
#95 Meer dan Woorden/More than Words Festival
1997 (The Netherlands) event poster
#96 Richard Martin - ('98)
for inquiries
regarding Published in Heaven (the literary renaissance & Ring Tarigh)
Poster, Book, Chapbook, Audio Series or the literary renaissance events contact
Ron Whitehead
gimmewig@bellsouth.net or Denis Mahoney hasan@riconnect.com
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
Austrailian Aboriginee (native) musical
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
an Austrailian
Aboriginee (native) musical instrument that resembles a long pipe which the
operator plays in the same manner as a tuba or other brass instrument
>
>Date: Mon, 7
Jul 1997 22:41:15 -0400 (EDT)
>From:
Wakajuki@aol.com
>Subject:
OPERATION:DIDJERIDOO
>
>found'em!!!!
Okay, here we go:
>
>L=(V/2f)+r
>L-length you
are gonna want to cut it
>V=speed of
sound at sea level, which is 340miles/second or 13385.826
>inches/second
>divide by
>2 times the
frequency (f) of the pitch you want
>add
>r=radius of
the tube, i.e. 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch
>
>I've gotten
the best results from 2" tubing with a 2"x1 1/2" coupling
>followed by a
1 1/2x1" coupling for the mouthpiece. Remember to account for
>the length of
the coupling (mouthpiece) when determining the length to cut,
>it's usually
about 2 or 3" long. Okay, here's the lengths:
>Pitch Freq(Hz)
Length
>G 97.999 69.296
>G# 103.826 65.463
>A 110.0 61.845
>A# 116.541 58.430
>B 123.471 55.206
>C 130.813 52.164
>C# 138.591 49.292
>D 146.832 46.582
>D# 155.563 44.024
>E 164.814 41.609
>F 174.614 39.330
>F# 184.997 37.178
>G 195.998 35.148
>G# 207.652 33.231
>A 220.000 31.422
>
>If anyone
decides to build one, lemme know, I'll give you a few pointers on
>playing them.
Have fun, and don't put anyone's eyes out!!!
>
>JimJanni
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: La Loca
poetry URL
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
La Loca poetry
http://www.sla.purdue.edu/sycamore/v32-p1.htmlTo:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: spiegel
interview BOB DYLAN
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
BOB DYLAN: WITH A
NEW ALBUM, HE GOES BACK IN 'TIME'
Bob Dylan, one of
the half-century's most famous folk singers, has just released a new album, and
critics are calling it his best work in 20 years.
In this exclusive
interview, Dylan talks about his brush with death earlier this year, his music,
his politics, and growing older.
Q. Mr. Dylan, you nearly died this
spring of an inflamed heart lining. How do you feel today?
A. I'm getting better, gradually, but
for a long time I was forced to think some pretty serious thoughts.
Q. Do you think Elvis would have taken
you into his choir up in Heaven?
A. Absolutely.
Q. Your new album, "Time Out of
Mind," is considered your best work in more than 20 years, but it has a
bitter, dark and lonely sound to it.
A. I disagree. What's happening in
Bosnia or South America, that's dark and bitter.
Q. On "Time Out of Mind" you
sing: "I go through streets that are dead," "the party's
over"; you have to live on "in this old cage."
A. ... People shouldn't take everything
so literally. Elvis Presley once sang: "You ain't nothin' but a hound
dog." It would have been really stupid to ask Elvis if he meant that
seriously. People change from one minute to the next. Whatever anyone says
about this collection of songs, it somehow turned out all right.
Q. Back in the '60s, your line, 'Don't
follow leaders, watch the parking meters,' was a nifty trick, because it left
many of your fans worshiping you all the more. You're considered an honest
artist who hates business and whose work is authentic.
A. ... It's true that I seem to be one
of the few artists who attracts these people.
Q. But it also seems as if, since the
mid-'60s, you've gotten fed up with being treated as an icon or spokesman of
counterculture.
A. I don't take those titles as a
compliment. Words like 'icon' or 'legend' are just another way to describe
someone who is yesterday's news and who no one wants to hear anymore.
Q. Does being Bob Dylan ever get on
your nerves?
A. It's easier to be me than to be
someone else. But like most famous people, sometimes I'd just like to be left
alone.
Q. Are you still interested in
politics?
A. No. All I care about is my
performance as a musician and a singer. Everything in my life revolves around the music that I love.
Q. Is it still possible to influence
the world with songs, and affect politics with your messages?
A. No, that's what newspapers are for.
If people want to have the world explained to them, they should watch TV.
Q. That's an awfully passive approach.
A. That's what we've come to. People go
to the football stadium, but don't play themselves.
Q. Did you ever think you could
influence politics with your music?
A. No, no, no. If that's what I had
wanted to do, I would have gone to Harvard or Yale and studied to become a
politician.
Q. But you've written songs like
'Masters of War,' in which you threaten the people in charge that some day you
will spit on the graves; or songs like 'The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll'
and 'Hurricane,' in which you protest against racist justice.
A. To tell the truth, I don't really
know what politics is. I can be completely on the same side of an issue as the
right, and then in the very moment, back on the same side as the left.
Q. Some of your colleagues, like
Crosby, Stills and Nash, are convinced that they ended the war in Vietnam.
A. I believe it. That's the kind of
guys they were.
Q. What was it like playing for the
Pope a few weeks ago?
A. It was a wonderful show.
Q. Why?
A. Just was.
Q. Isn't it interesting that someone
who was one of the Establishment's greatest enemies in the '60s should play for
the Pope?
A. Why' He isn't the same Pope as back
then.
Q. Does your world view include a
future as well as a past?
A. Sure. But people really haven't
changed since Moses. Feelings don't change.
Q. For the Pope, you played your songs
cleanly and carefully, like on a record. But usually your audiences have to
worry about you massacring your own songs. Is it boring for you to play your
songs in their original form, or do you like to punish your fans?
A. The real problem is the critics.
They come with ears still back in 1975, or even farther back. But my songs have
a life of their own, they have an inner truth, and they change from night to
night... I've recorded my records in different times of life with different
people and different instruments. If I were to play them all faithfully, I'd
have to bring 100 people on stage.
Q. In the late '80s, you announced that
you wanted to go on a so-called Neverending Tour, and you still play 150
concerts a year. Won't that get old?
A. That's my job, my business, my work.
Standing on stage is as natural for me as breathing. Plus, I'm the only one
singing this kind of song anymore. Popular music is in the same state today as
when I started singing. If someone is a serious musician, no one listens to
him. In the old days ... we were strong enough to look for people who told the
truth.
Q. Not long ago you said that you
sometimes feel just 'one small step above a pimp.?
A. When you stand up there and look out
at the people, and the people look at you, sometimes, like it or not, you just
get the feeling you're in a burlesque show. I'm sure Pavarotti gets the same
feeling.
Q. Do you envy the 17-year-olds in your
audiences their youth?
A. I'm a grandfather. I have grandchildren
who like other singers.
That's youth
today. I play for people who understand my feelings.
Q. On your new album you sing that you
wish someone would turn back the hands of time.
A. Doesn't everybody feel that way' ...
I'd love to start my life over again, to learn a new craft, marry other women,
live in other places.
Q. Yet through your career, you've
reinvented yourself time and again, rarely staying the way your fans wanted you
to.
A. That's just human nature.
Q. Is it something you thought about,
or did it just happen?
A. Everything in life just happens.
That's life -- it happens.
Q. Without meaning or direction?
A. I'm sure there's a great divine
meaning behind it all.
Q. Where do your songs come from' Do
they just fly through the universe and come to you like that?
A. The folk singer Woody Guthrie had
that thought first, and I think he's right.
Q. What are your musical influences
today?
A. Simple music from the '20s and '30s, a
bit from the '50s. A very limited influence: American folk music, blues, a bit
of Rock-a-billy. But no rock 'n' roll -- I think rock 'n' roll didn't add much
to my work.
Q. Do you listen to the radio, or does
the pop music get on your nerves?
A. I tune in to old radio shows ...
Sometimes they play the theater groups I grew up with. I think that's coming
back.
Q. Would you recognize a pop song from
today -- say a song by Bon Jovi?
A. No, I really wouldn't.
Q. There's a song called 'Highlands' on
your new album that lasts 16 minutes. It sounds almost improvised. How much do
you prepare before you go into the studio?
A. It's been a long time since I
recorded a song like 'Highlands.' I wouldn't say 'Highlands' was really
improvised, but a lot of thoughts in it came out differently during the
recording than the way they were written on paper. But really, it's just a
simple blues that can go in one direction or another.
Q. Tell us what the blues means to you.
A. The blues' An extremely simple and
open form, in which you can say anything ... But it's become rare ... The blues
comes from the land,
>from the
cotton fields of the South, and it was taken into the big cities and
electrified. Today it's become electronic. You don't feel anymore that someone
is breathing there, or that there's a heart there, and the farther away it
gets, the less connected it is to what I call the blues. As I said, the blues is
simple and it comes from the land, like country music.
Q. When did you decide that you, the
white, Jewish son of a furniture and appliance salesman from Minnesota, could
sing songs that would move people?
A. I can't remember back that far; at
least I can't remember ever having done anything other than singing. But if
there was someone back then who influenced me, consciously or not, it was the
folk singer Woodie Guthrie.
Q. Do you ever listen to your old songs
around the house?
A. I never listen to my old stuff. I
don't want to be reminded of myself or to influence myself. From now on, I'll
only listen to ...
Q. ... old music?
A. There's nothing better.
Q: The times they
are a-changin' ...
A: ... but way
back.
Q: Last year you
sold your protest song "The times they are a-changin'" to the Bank of
Montreal, who used it in a commercial. Do you regret this?
A: Not at all.
Q: It is said,
you play golf now. What's your handicap?
A: 17 - I hit as
if it were a baseball bat.
End of the
interview.
Original text
at: http://www.spiegel.de To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: R.E.M.'S
DRUMMER BILL BERRY QUITS
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
R.E.M.'S DRUMMER
BILL BERRY QUITS
R.E.M. drummer Bill Berry has decided to
leave the band, after 17 years and millions of albums sold. Berry originally
helped form the band along with Michael Stipe, Peter Buck, and Mike Mills and
launch the Athens, Georgia group as one of the most important rock bands in the
past two decades.
In a statement issued from the band's label,
Warner Bros., Berry says, "I've been playing the drums since age nine. I'm
at a point in my life where some of my priorities have shifted. I loved my 17
years with R.E.M., but I'm ready to reflect, assess, and move on to a different
phase of my life. The four of us will continue our close friendship and I look
forward to hearing their future efforts as the world's biggest R.E.M.
fan."
In the statement, the band, which is in the
midst of writing songs for their next album, stressed that they are not
breaking up and that this was an amicable decision. They also said that Berry
will not be replaced; rather, other musicians will be hired for future
recording and touring projects.
Singer Michael Stipe says, "It's the end
of an era for us -- Berry, Buck, Mills, Stipe -- and that's sad. I'm happy for
Bill; it's what he really wants and I think it's a courageous decision. For me,
Mike, and Peter, as R.E.M., are we still R.E.M.? I guess a three- legged dog is
still a dog. It just has to learn how to run differently."
Peter Buck has this to say: "After
talking to Bill several times over the last few weeks, it became apparent to
Mike, Michael, and me that he was sincere in his desire for personal change.
Although it saddens us that Bill wants to move on, we all support his decision.
He is treating these changes as positive, and so should we."
Lastly, Mike Mills adds, "As sad as this
is, the fact that Bill is still around to be my friend puts everything in
perspective. I look forward to playing golf with Bill, and music with Michael
and Peter."
The band will discuss the matter during an
online chat on Friday (Oct. 31) at 3 - 4 p.m. (EST) at the MTV chat area on
America Online. The keywords are Warner or MTVYack.
___________________________________________________
all contents are
the copyright ) 1996, 1997 of N2K Inc.
any derivative
works of this content must hyperlink to and credit: "Rocktropolis allstar
News at http://rocktropolis.com">
Send comments,
inquiries, hot scoops and
slow wet kisses to
contact@allstarmag.com.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
HALLOWEEN
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
HALLOWEEN
Halloween is an
annual celebration on October 31 combining ancient Druid and early Christian
traditions.
Halloween
originated as Celtic New Years Eve, the eve of Samhain or "Winter's
Eve". The Celtic Feast of Samhain
was celebrated by Druids to observe the beginning of winter and of their New
Year, which begins on November 1st.
Samhain also marks the death of the Sun God, who must then await his
rebirth from the Mother Goddess at Yule (in December).
It was a time
when it was believed that the dead returned to roam the earth with all manner
of other powerful spirits.
The Church
adopted November 1st as the feast of "All Saints" or "All
Hallows" in an attempt to Christianize the pagan festival. The last evening of October was thus
transformed into the "Eve of All Saints" or "All Hallow
Even," which was then shortened to Hallow-e'en.
COSTUMES
As mentioned
above, it was believed that powerful spirits roamed the earth during Samhain,
and naturally, the still-living did not want to be possessed by the spirits, so
on the night of October 31, villagers would extinguish the fires in their
homes, to make them cold and undesirable.
They would then dress up in all manner of ghoulish costumes and noisily
parade around the neighborhood, being as destructive as possible in order to
frighten away spirits looking for bodies to possess.
TRICK OR TREATING
The custom of
trick-or-treating is thought to have originated with a ninth-century European
custom called "souling." On
October 31, "All Souls Day", early Christians would walk from village
to village begging for "soul cakes," made out of square pieces of
bread with currants. The more soul cakes
the beggars would receive, the more prayers they would promise to say on behalf
of the dead relatives of the donors. At
the time, it was believed that the dead remained in limbo for a time after
death, and that prayer, even by strangers, could expedite a soul's passage to
heaven.
JACK-O-LANTERNS
An 18th Century
Irish folk myth explains the basis of the Jack-O'-Lantern as follows:
There was a
stingy drunkard of an Irishman named Jack who tricked the Devil into climbing
an apple tree. Then Jack quickly cut the
sign of a cross into the trunk of the tree, thereby preventing the Devil from
climbing down. Jack made the Devil swear
that he wouldn't ever come after Jack's soul again or claim it in any way.
However, this did
not stop Jack from dying and when he did he was denied entrance to Heaven
because of his life of drinking, being tightfisted and being deceitful. Because of the oath the Devil had taken Jack
was not allowed into Hell either.
"But where
can I go?" asked Jack.
"Back where
you came from!" replied the Devil.
The way back was
windy and dark. The Devil, as a final gesture, threw Jack a single live ember
straight from the fire of Hell. To light
his way through the frigid darkness and to keep it from blowing out in the wind
Jack put the ember in a turnip he was eating.
Ever since that day Jack and his "lantern" have been traveling
over the face of the earth looking for a place to rest.
The Irish used
turnips as their "Jack's lanterns" originally. But when the
immigrants came to America, they found that pumpkins were far more plentiful
than turnips. So the Jack-O-Lantern in
America was a hollowed-out pumpkin, lit with an ember or candle.
HALLOWEEN-LIKE
CELEBRATIONS AROUND THE WORLD:
England: Guy
Fawkes Day, November 5, is celebrated in ways reminiscent of Halloween. Guy
Fawkes was accused of attempting to blow up the Houses of Parliament on that
day in 1605. He was apprehended, hung,
drawn, and quartered. On November 5,
1606, the same Parliament declared the fifth of November a day of public thanksgiving. The act of treason was viewed as part of a
'popish,' that is, Roman Catholic plot against the Protestant government. Because Halloween was associated with the
Catholic church calendar, its importance diminished, but many of its traditions
shifted to the annual commemoration of the death of Guy Fawkes.
Today, for weeks
in advance of November 5, English children prepare effigies of Fawkes, dummies
known as "Guys." They set them
out on street corners and beg passers-by for "a penny for the Guy." The eve of the fifth is known as
"Mischief Night," when children are free to play pranks on adults,
just as October 30, the night before Halloween, is know as "Mischief
Night" or "Devil's Night" in many areas of the U.S. On the night of November 5, the
"Guys" are burned in bonfires, just as the ancient Celts burned
bonfires on November 1.
Germany:
Throughout the Western world, May 1, like November 1, is a day of traditional
significance. The 30th of April, the eve
of May 1, is important in areas of Germany, particularly the Harz Mountains,
where they celebrate "Walpurgisnacht," or the "Eve of St.
Walpurgis Day." Witches are
supposed to be especially active this day, as are spirits of the dead and demon
creatures from the nether world.
China: The care
of the dead through prayers and sacrifices were part of a spring festival of
purification and regeneration.
Japan: Bon
festival, dedicated to the spirits of ancestors, for whom special foods are
prepared, occurs during the middle of the summer (one of the most important
festive periods of the year). Three days
in length, it is a time when everyone goes home (reminiscent of the American
Thanksgiving).
Mexico (and other
Latin American countries): The first and
second of November are "El Dias de los Muertos," or "The Days of
the Dead." In some regions, the
evening of October 31 is the beginning of the "Day of the Dead
Children," which is followed on November 1 by the "Day of the Dead
Adults." Skeleton figures, candy
(sugar skulls), toys, statues and decorations are seen everywhere. It is a time
for great festivity, with traditional plays and food. It is a time to play with death and
decorating family graves, which is preceded by religious services and followed
by picnics. The human skeleton or skull
is the primary symbol of the day. Unlike
the American Halloween, in Mexico people build home altars, adorned with
religious icons and special breads and other food for the dead. "The Day of the Dead" incorporates
recognition of death as a concept with rituals that remember the deaths of
individuals.
So, although
witches and devil worshippers may have adopted Halloween as their favorite
"holiday," the day itself did not grow out of evil practices. It grew out of the rituals of Celts aimed at the
avoidance of being possessed, and out of Medieval prayer rituals of Europeans.
=====================================================================To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: frasi
celebri dei beats levis sold
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"After 1957
ON THE ROAD sold a trillion levis and a million expresso coffee machines, and
also sent countless kids out on the road." -
William S. Burroughs
"The bridge
I'm building now
it may take a lot of time."
Neil Young
"I never
sleep at night
but just the same
I never weep at night
I call your name
You know I can't take it
I don't know who can
I'm not going to make it
I'm not that kind of man."
Lennon/McCartney
"ONCE I was
young and had so much more orientation and could talk with nervous intelligence
about everything and with clarity and without as much literary preambling as
this; in other words this is the story
of an unself-confident man, at the same time of an egomaniac, naturally,
facetious won't do -- just to start at the beginning and let the truth seep
out, that's what I'll do --. It began on
a warm summernight -- ......"
Jack
Kerouac, The Subterraneans
"You see
control can never be a means to any practical end . . . It can never be a means
to anything but more control . . . Like junk . . ."
William S. Burroughs, Jr., Naked Lunch
"The sword
of discovery goes before the couch of laughter.
One sneers by modifying a snarl;
one smiles by modifying a sneer.
You should have lived twice, and smiled the second time."
Kenneth Burke, Towards a Better Life
'Everyone has
talent. What is rare is the courage to
follow the talent to the dark place where it leads."
--Erica Jong
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Underground Handbook
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
The Underground
Handbook
We begin our
thoughts with the conception that GOD IS DEAD. This phrase is normally used by
those that believe the Christian idea of GOD: the all-knowing, all-powerful,
and all-loving, does not exist.
This is true,
for, by stating that an entity/being/nature can be all- knowing, all-power, and
all-loving at once is problematic in that no all- loving nature that is
all-powerful would allow the commonly earthly crimes to be committed against
its creatures. One of the three aspects of GOD must not be true in order for
this being to make some sense. HE may be all-loving and all-knowing, but to
explain the horrors of this world HE would have to be not all-powerful-that is,
without the power to stop the horrors. HE may also be all-knowing and all-
powerful, but not all-loving and simply allow these crimes to take place.
Lastly, he may be all-loving and all-powerful, but not all- knowing and simply
be ignorant of the violence on our planet.
Attempting to
prove why HE allows the pestilence of Earth to exist usually leads back to the
statement that we simply cannot understand GOD's glory. Once again, if HE were
to be all-loving, why would HE lead us blindly through the tunnel of horror
that is our modern world?
HE wouldn't,
because the mythology simply does not exist.
This said, we
move on to the statement that god necessarily exists. The difference between
GOD being dead and god exists is more than mere capitalization. GOD is a
concept created by a culture than cannot handle the reality of our planet. In
hopes of omitting the SIN of our planet, the founders of the GOD religion
created a being that judges us and allows us into some PARADISE should we
follow his rules. God, on the other hand (that is god without any necessary
capitalization), is all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful being that he is
simply Truth (with a capital T). Truth is a personal understanding, a primary
emotion, free from the concepts that we put upon it. No statement is
necessarily True because, by definition, stating something is to communicate
the idea out of True Experience. For example, drink a glass of orange juice.
The taste itself is True Experience. Describe the experience. Nothing you say
can more Truly communicate the taste of orange juice aside from allowing the
other individuals to taste the orange juice themselves. This is Truth, or True
Experience. It is necessary to discriminate between True Experience and the
communication of experience, between Truth and concepts, to understand how god
is all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful, while GOD is not.
Truth against
Concepts
We experience
Reality on a daily basis, but are limited in our understanding of Reality by
the concepts we create in order to explain Reality. As with the orange juice,
we have a concept of orange juice and for its taste, but this concept isn't
necessarily true for every experience. The orange juice may have pulp in it for
one particular glass, be soured in another, or even fortified by calcium or
potassium in another glass. These are more obvious differences between orange
juices. One morning you might simply not have an interest in orange juice, and
upon drinking a glass be disgusted by its taste. Another morning you might
absolutely need a glass and believe the orange juice to be the most glorious
taste you've had in years. These differences come about through your
perceptions of how badly you need the orange juice, but not from the actual
orange juice itself. The Reality is, however, that the taste of the orange
juice hasn't changed, simply your conception of the value of orange juice at
that time.
Let's get away
from the orange juice example and into your own existence. When a young child
sees you from across the room, she'll ask what's that, to which the parent will
explain that you are a HUMAN. Should you have lived 23 years your entire
existence would have been reduced down to one word: HUMAN. If you live another
23 years you'll have gained no ground. You'll still be a HUMAN.
HUMAN is a
concept. Your name is a more specific concept, but even if the parent were to
answer that your name is BILL, you'll never escape that concept, and 69 years
into your life you'll still have gained no ground. You'll still be BILL. What
about your experiences though and the family and friends that have helped
create BILL? Was each moment of your life meaningless except for the day you
were said to be named BILL? If each person and event that had an impact on your
life were indeed said to be important, what about the lives and events that
affected them? Are we to believe that only the moments that affected you
important? If this is true, then each individual reading this handbook is now
tied together through the common event of reading this handbook, and each
individual and event which affected the reader (namely you) is to be considered
important. After a few readings we can possibly state that the entire
population is indeed important to Reality, but we are still missing the
histories of the persons that affected you and those events that affected them
and so on until we've arrived at the very beginnings of the universe when
things began affecting one another. Thus, Reality simply is everything at once,
and yet nothing within the confines of our concepts.
To be sure,
concepts are not only important but undeniably necessary to our existence as
human beings. Concepts are not necessary to Reality.
A chipmunk will
live many a long and prosperous day without knowing the Newtonian laws of
Physics. He will eat and sleep and breed happily without understanding why his
life came to an end under the tires of a passing car. Abstract thought is what
makes us human, but our communication of these thoughts is what keeps us
separate from the idea of Reality. We simply cannot imagine every facet of
every single instance within history to play an important role in our daily
lives. How would anyone know where we were without our surroundings to place us
in this state or on this track of land? How would anyone know how to respect us
if we weren't a part of some social group or institution? We would be nothing
at all if we were to exist in a void without someone to perceive us-for how
would we know that we Truly did exist if there weren't another individual to
approve or deny this statement? Our personalities, our mannerisms, our values,
and our experiences all compose this thing we call a SELF, and yet, without the
concepts to define every moment, we would have no idea of PROGRESS, of FREEDOM,
of JUSTICE, or of GOD. To find value in a lack of understanding (that is,
ideas) is to find value in ignorance. While concepts such as PROGRESS and
FREEDOM only exist in relation to some specific moment, such as the progress of
technology or the freedom of women, we must acknowledge that knowledge of such
concepts is indeed valuable knowledge to our survival as humans, but not the
idea of Truth.
When you wake up
tomorrow morning, be sure to notice the sunrise. If your in the country with
only the songs of crickets or in the city with the roar of police sirens and
motor engines, notice that the sunrise is an evolving beauty. When the moment
is over, reflect what went through your mind. Should you to have been
completely enraptured by the moment, you weren't analyzing the particles of
light reflecting off the dust in the earth's atmosphere, you were simply
experiencing the True nature of the sunset. If you have a child or if you
dearly love someone without question, look at their picture and remember a
moment of happiness in their past. This feeling may be conceptualized as LOVE,
but the feeling itself is True Reality, free from the hassles of concepts and
miscommunications. Any moment of Truth cannot be described in words. You may be
able to capture aspects of the sunset or the child or the orange juice in
misleading concepts, but no one will Truly experience the moment for themselves
as you have, even if the circumstances are identical. This is the nature of
Truth. This is the nature of Reality.
GOD against God
Now that we have
an understanding of Truth we may continue with the thought that GOD is dead. At
His conception GOD was a revealing thought that brought feelings of great love
and joy into a persons heart.
This is still a
common phenomenon, but not one that we may describe as universal. The very fact
that people are willing to say GOD is dead is proof enough that the joy and
love GOD supposedly brings is not a universal phenomenon. On the other hand,
god is a universal phenomenon. We all have experienced some sense of Truth in
our lives, be it True love, True hate-True emotion of any kind, True Experience
of any kind. This alone shows that there is a god that reveals our experiences
within us, but not any personified GOD that watches over us and checks our sins
against our good deeds. This is a god within us. This is a god that we
interpret in many ways: a moral, a value, a belief, a feeling, an emotion, a
revelation, hatred, disgust, ad infinitum. These feelings and experiences come
to us initially and take us over completely, but when we attempt to
conceptualize our feelings and experiences we leave out infinite details that
cannot be captured by language, only by True Experience. There is no lie within
our Experience. There is only Truth, and within truth there is the three
aspects of all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful.
An all-knowing
experience is one that completely removes you from your surroundings-not
obliterating Reality, but instead sinking you more deeply into the act of
Knowing Reality. When you find yourself in a fit of rage, the experience is all
you know at the moment. Facts such as why you hate or what brought you to your
rage or what actions to take during your rage are sometimes omitted from your
immediate experience because the experience is all-knowing, a reversal of the
term how it is commonly applied. Nothing can be completely conscious of every
experience simultaneously, but the moment itself can be so self- absorbing that
the moment is all-knowing-that is all there is to know.
The feeling of
rage or love or despair is all there is to know at that moment because you are
experiencing the moment-you are Knowing the moment all at once. If anything
hinders you from your all-knowing emotion, it is easy enough to state that the
moment itself was not all- knowing.
Truth, or god, is
also all-loving in the sense that it takes you and holds you and becomes
you-that which we know as love. Hatred may also be all-loving for it also takes
you and absorbs itself within you. We commonly perceive ultimate love to
another individual to mean combining with the individual on a spiritual level,
where the two (or more) individuals are easy enough to perceive as one in their
love.
When hatred takes
you by the reigns it guides you, envelops you, becomes you completely and
leaves behind a perfect marriage of the two entities that is you and the Truth.
Nothing is more real to you at that moment, even in smaller experiences of
Truth such as the taste of the orange juice. If you despise the flavor no one
can tell you that your perception is wrong because your perception is True. If
you were to taste the flavor differently the next day you still are not
wrong-your previous Truth wasn't false because that immediate perception is a
part of you-a part of your being, and in that instance, Truth.
Lastly, the Truth
is all-powerful for the exact same reasons it is all- knowing and all-loving-it
simply overwhelms you and nothing can be closer to the Truth than your
immediate experience. In the sense of Truth-in the moment of Truth, all three
aspects of god necessarily exist if you are indeed experiencing Truth. Once
again, if, when looking at a sunrise you are diagramming its projectory across
the morning sky, you are conceptualizing the moment so that you may communicate
this angle, but you are not letting the all-powerful nature of the sunset flow
through you. You are ignoring the all-loving nature of the experience and
refusing to let god flow through you. You are restraining the all-knowing Truth
and bottling it into numbers and concepts and words so that you may attempt to
pass this knowledge on to someone else-but in this ignoring the Truth that is
being witnessed in that moment.
The Problem of
Concepts
Concepts are not
necessarily a hindrance to us. They are indeed a great benefit to our
existence. If you were to attempt to
travel across the miles of your life without speech (a construct of
conceptions) and knowledge, you'd be virtually stunted in your actions. You wouldn't
have any idea where you wanted to go or what you wanted to say.
Concepts are not
truth however. When we see a piece of chalk we are aware of its uses. In other
circumstances being limited to one concept could be detrimental. If you should
be calcium deficient eating the chalk would greatly improve your health. If an
assailant should attack you, knowing that chalk can be crushed into powder and
blind your opponent would also be a very useful knowledge. Out of context
though even these concepts can be detrimental. As a teacher if you were to
start eating chalk for no apparent reason or to blind all of your students with
the dust you'd lose your job along with any of the benefits that came with the
position, such as an income, the ability to transfer to another school, and so
on.
Knowing these
concepts are what allows us to function as a species. As mentioned previously,
though, these concepts are not Truth. No usage of chalk is universally true,
and not all animals would have the same concept in mind for a piece of chalk.
Kittens might see it as a batting toy, and cows might see it at a licking
block. If aliens came down to our planet all concepts of chalk might be foreign
to them and they wouldn't care less how different species of earth creatures use
chalk-it simply wouldn't be important to them. Thus, the concepts of chalk are
nothing more than concepts, not Truth.
Concepts become
highly problematic in our society when we mistake them to be Truth. If a black
man pulls out a gun and points it at you, holding on to the concept that he is
out to kill you is certainly detrimental if all he was attempting to do was
hand it to you for your own protection. Likewise, standing before a gun when a
man is pointing it at you could certainly lead to an unpleasant situation. Both
situations are far removed from Truth. The first is bigoted, and the second is
pure ignorance. Any judgement call-any concept applied to the moment is
anything but Truth. The Truth of the moment is that feeling that is
all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving-the Truth is god. If you were to flee
in fear, the Truth has guided you to your safety.
If later you
learned that he was merely attempting to hand the gun to you for your safety,
the Truth didn't lie. Its power took hold of you, its love guided you, and its
knowledge told you what to do, but it wasn't a lie at that moment. When we
reflect on the moment and conceptualize the events, it is then that we
determine truth from lies, but still nothing has changed the events of god.
We often take
these supposed truths even further into the disruption of our daily lives. The
Japanese are out to dominate our country, the suits are faceless stiffs that
only love money, the housewives are bound and gagged in their freedoms and
aren't expressing their womanhood to its fullest-these are common concepts that
are popular in our times within certain social groups. There is no Truth to any
of these. A Japanese woman might simply be there to take your order in a
restaurant. A suit may go home and fight for Freedom in Tibet by printing out
pamphlets on his PC. A housewife may find great joy in her work and fight for
the rights of women in her spare time. There is no Truth to these concepts, and
yet we fight great wars and hold great protests over Human Rights, Right to
Life, the Existence of God, and so on. None of these causes have any Truth to
them. Humans aren't born with self-evident rights, else they would include more
beneficial rights such as the right to live in a sheltered environment, the right
to eat healthy and daily, and the right to a job that will bring them personal
success-this we know to be missing not only from the Bill of Rights but also
from our countries current state of well being. The entire argument of Right to
Life is based purely on conceptions: when a child is a living child and who
should have the choice for an abortion.
And finally, the
Existence of God, where even though this handbook started out stating that
there is no GOD, this is only true is the manner in which it is presented.
Someone who has experienced GOD and knows His love cannot be told of GOD's
death. This isn't true for them and thus it isn't True. Truth is pure
perception. If you perceive the love of GOD then it necessarily exists for you.
In attempting to bring some universal argument into the nature of Truth you
have entered into conception-into philosophies and arguments and language. As a
matter of fact this entire handbook isn't necessarily Truth because it is a
communicated idea-not something that you have experienced personally. The only
thing that is Truth, that is god, that is perception, is the moment in which
you experience it fully and Truly-nothing more.
The Value of
GOD's Death
Christianity has
become such an overwhelming religion that Truth as been forgotten in its
teachings. We spend our time arguing over His existence and His nature that we
forget exactly who god is. God is Truth. God is the moment that captures us.
God doesn't deliver judgement or damnation in the sense that a judge does, it
simply proves True to us that such an act of sin will judge us to be damned.
This philosophy may hold true for many Christians, but others doubt that there
is really any sin in murdering for we murder animals to survive.
Then we go
through the process of explaining our murderous ways- that animals were meant
to slaughter because they slaughter one another. Of course humans slaughter one
another as well, so by this reasoning murder amongst men is the natural way and
thus not a sin.
Once again we see
that by setting our Truths into concepts their universality is easily argued.
There is no ultimate sin to god, there is only the personal Truth (personal
sin) to god. When children begin learning the way one particular society acts,
we teach them truths for that particular society, but not Truth that works
universally. We teach them that God is everything and everywhere because this
is True, but what we omit is that Truth differs from experience to experience
as well as from man to man. We teach them that there is only one Truth for
there is certainly only one Truth-the purity of the moment free from conceptual
restrictions, but we unfortunately teach them our Truths and forget to tell
them that they must experience the Truth for themselves before they will ever
understand the nature of Truth. Put simply, we give them our lives as an
example but leave out the fact that they cannot not live our lives in place of
their own.
Children with
these thoughts in mind eventually grow into one of us in return. While children
begin their lives with an amazing innocence, an unavoidable draw to the Truth,
we divert them into our own experiences. When they ask us what that boy is
playing, we will tell them basketball and lead them to think that basketball is
either good or bad. While this may well be a personal Truth within us, it is
not a universal Truth-basketball is merely basketball, but even in stating this
we are believing that basketball is basketball in every circumstance in every
moment of time. Playing basketball can be an exhilarating event or a completely
unpleasant one. Our culture sees this paradox of basketball being both one
opposite and simultaneously the opposite as problematic, and thus make a
judgement call as to what basketball truly is. In teaching our children what a
bird is or how a song is to be sung, we educate them on our cultural concepts
and destroy their innocent acceptance of the Truth. To them, basketball is
everything it is at that moment, and thus an experience that cannot be
communicated in earnest. To us, basketball is basketball and nothing more. In
raising a child we cannot help but simultaneously destroy them.
Still, children
are creatures of Truth and never abandon it until much later on in their lives.
We know this as rebellion. When a young raver drops a hit of acid and dances
around in brightly colored clothing to a series of beats, many judge them to be
futureless drug freaks that have no place in our society. They obviously have a
place in our society because they play the role of ravers. We judge their
habits as destructive not because it is destroying anything physically but
because they are destroying our notion of society. Truthfully though they are
experiencing their own reality and in this they are being more True to themselves
than we are. Most Americans judge success by wealth and power. As children
collect toys to amuse them we collect dollars to explore our desires. When a
child grows weary of a toy they throw it away for a new one. When we grow tired
of our lives we know no other option in life and eventually end up in a
mid-life crises. We see that our success hasn't brought us any insight or any
happiness-it hasn't brought us any closer to this Truth that we judged in
dollars and cents.
Instead it makes
us yearn for days past when we were innocent children but forget that we drove
that innocence out of our own children by forcing them to conform to the same
ideals that brought us to our crises.
Thus, we come to
the conclusion that GOD is dead. Our thoughts of Heaven are lost to us being
that we know no joy in our own lives. Even if we were to see that sunrise early
in the morning, later that day we'll be punching the numbers and counting the
days to our vacation. When we return home we may find the overwhelming love of a
family or the uncompromised friendship on the telephone or at a party, but when
we rest our eyes on the pillow we fear the next day and its routine and see no
way out of it, hoping that the raise will make us wealthier and bring happiness
and satisfaction that much closer to us. Show me a rich man that has everything
he had ever asked for and I'll show you a man that wishes life was more simpler
or more interesting. This isn't to say that wealth cannot bring happiness. What
matters is the Truth-your truth, not anyone else's. Raver kids run the risk of
finding themselves in a culture that doesn't allow them to express every facet
of their own lives. Rich men may settle into their mansions with every form of
True happiness in his heart. Truth is not universal. Any judgement that relies
on a universal Truth is itself a concept and by definition not universally
true. If you count on GOD to take you along with the rest of the flock to some
form of happiness, then Truly you have been misled by someone else's concepts.
If Truth to you is only what others tell you Truth is, then certainly we have
found a reason to believe that GOD, if not dead, should certainly die soon.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: bio and
poem Bob Holman
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 14:47:07 -0500
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: ZONE BREAKS
From: Anastasios
Kozaitis <kozaita@rockvax.rockefeller.edu>
ZONE BREAKS
"Where are
you?!"
Somewhere else,
of course, you snoot!
No sweat. My best work is always getting out.
In San Francisco,
in Potrero, the succulents Crowd the ants & piece your beauty in that way
Of fragmentation which reminds me so
Of these
scribbles--no wonder these hills flatten Poetry, it is prose! or prose somewhat. It is light On its side. Galleries of daybreak. The great Cuts of cacti carry my mortality
over. The siren On the poetry reading
tape, who would be carried Over the flowery mill? Love me two times, west To east, is on the
radio. There are five Ways, and I'm
taking all of them. But there are still
Five ways, and you can do it too. Not
doing It, however, is not another way.
Cars creeping Over hills as if they didn't belong. Nor rivers.
Things I do every
day: suicide. Turn off brain To stay alert, blurting the
thoughtful. My fingers Growing smaller
to soothe your body I know.
--Bob Holman
Born in 1948 in
LaFollette, Tennessee. Bob Holman is the
author of _Bicentennial Suicide_, _The Rainbow Raises Its Shoulder/When a
Flower Grows_, _Tear to Open_, _Eight Chinese Poems_, _Sweat & Sex &
Politics!_.
In addition, he
is a director of plays which include:
The Cause of Gravity, The Wizard of Oz, The Gas Heart, Jet of Blood,
Mayakovsky, a Tragedy, Clear the Range, Four Plays by Edwin Denby, The White
Snake, Plaid on Both Sides, Eat Rocks! and She Is in Tangier: Life and Work of
Jane Bowles.
Holman was the
coordinator of the St. Mark's Poetry Project in the late 1970s and early
1980s. For those unfamiliar with the
Poetry Project, it was the home and bedrock of American international
avant-garde poetry scene; I am not so sure of that anymore. In the 1950s and 60s, the Project was the New
York City home of poets such as Allen Ginsberg, Bill Berkson, Ted Berrigan,
Andrei Codrescu, John Giorno, Clark Coolidge, June Jordan, Ron Padgett, Diane
Wakowski, and Anne Waldman. The list
goes on. Holman has been closely
associated with the second generation of Poetry Project poets which includes
the likes of Paul Beatty, Charles Bernstein, Dennis Brutus, Victor Hernandez
Cruz, Douglas Messerli, Bob Rosenthal, Quincy Troupe, Jeff Wright, and John Yau
to mention but a few.
Holman went on to
rejuvenate the Nuyorican Poets Cafe bringing the cafe and it's poetry into
American popular culture. Today, Holman
is one of the leaders of the recording label Mouth Almighty, a subsidiary of
Mercury Records. He was the co-producer
and creator of The United States of Poetry a presentation of sixty short
films--as evocative, edgy, and surprising as music videos--that illustrate
individual poems recited by their creators.
He is currently
engaged in what he calls "sequel-ville:" He is working on The World of Poetry, which
has created a reading series at the TriBeCa bookstore Biblios on Tuesday
nights.
=========================================================================
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: hi by
Marie Countryman Thu, 6 Nov 1997
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:29:15 +0000
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET> Subject:
hi
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
8bit
hi
didja ever walk
down the streets
of your
neighborhood
with ears wide
open,
quiet quietly
and hear the two guys
up the hill arguing, as usual, over whose fielstone wall is best the sounds of
wet leaves dry leaves
squishy and
crackling
tugging at your
nostrils to open just a bit more to inhale
to savor
this autumnal
fragrance
didya just stop
and
shut your eyes
and all movement
and surfed the
autumnal audio waves?
moms talking to
toddlers wafting out of windows still open to the night breeze
birds land on
branches, branches creaking the noise your feet make on the cement gritty
sidwalk
a mufller problem
that to date had
been just a part of my white noise up here in my apartment
suddently becomes
a
particular
muffler patter
easily
distinguished
real car, real
driver, real muffler problem, don't look
you know that
car, it lives two houses over
the noises of
living:
geese in
formation overhead
smaller hardier
winter northland birds
cheeping
and there up
overhead, squirrels
squabble as i
scribble
hey you guys,
have any of you ever done that ?
...........anyone?
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: James
Laughlin died
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
----------
Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:19:52 -0500
From: William
Burmeister Prod <burmeist@PLHP002.COMM.MOT.COM> Reply-To: UB Poetics
discussion group <POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU> To:
POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Re:
James Laughlin
On Nov 13,
10:16am, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> Subject: Re:
James Laughlin
> Could
someone fill in those of us who didn't know of him as to who he was
> and what he
did? He does seem to have had quite an impact on those
> listers who
have posted.
>-- End of
excerpt from Joseph Zitt
I honestly can't
say if I would be in poetry right now if not for James Laughlin and New
Directions Books. I like the story Octavio Paz has in _The Other Voice_ about
him, and would like to share it.
"The case of
American Publishing house New Directions is a notable example.
James Laughlin,
the son of a well-to-do family, studied at HArvard some fifty years ago. A
poetry lover despite his disappointment at the professors he had, he decided to
spend some time in Rapallo, where Ezra Pound was the focal point of a small
group devoted to the study of poetry--the "Ezraversity," as Pound himself
called his circle. After six months of sharing their experiences, Pound and
Laughlin made a pact: Laughlin would become a publisher and devote himself to
bringing out books by Pound, William Carlos Williams, and other poets of that
time. Thus New Directions came into being. It is a house that has lasted more
than half a century and accomplished two equally difficult things: refusing to
become a gigantic multinational corporation, while publishing not only many
valuable North American poets but also the corpus of modern European and Latin
Literature.
In his recent
volume of delightful and intelligent prose (Recollections of a publisher,
1989), Laughlin notes that Pound recommended what books he should publish but
gave no advice about how to sell them. He adds: "perhaps he didn't know or
didn't care. I can't remember his exact phrase but he seemed quite content if
something he had written and given to some obscure magazine reached the eyes
and beans of twenty-seven readers, if they were the righr readers, the ones who
would diffuse his ideas." Laughlin had the good sense not to follow all of
Pound's advice: he did not publish, for instance, the eccentric economic
theories of Major Clifford Hugh Douglas. But he quickly understood that the new
literature, unanimously scorned by university professors and well-entrenched
critics, could win a small but fervent public. It was an undertaking that went
against current tastes and deliberately appealed to a minority. In a letter,
Pound wrote to his young friend: "For Christs sake meditate on something I
once told you: Nothing written for pay is worth anything; only what has been
written against the market. There is nothing so inebriating as earning money.
Big check and you think you have done something and two years later there is
nothing bloody well to show for
it." These lines were written in 1940. Nine years later, Pound renewed the
charge: "The death of all the old staid American publishing houses would
be a sign of God's favor to humanity. There are no known acts on the part of
these firms that ever favored living writers or literature."
William J.
Burmeister
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: the
kitchen clock Laughlin
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
THE KITCHEN CLOCK
How can we make
it run backwards,
That taciturn
white circle with
Its torpid black
hands? We only
Touch the hands
when standard
Time comes to
shorten or daylight
Saving to
lengthen our days. That
Clock is lazy;
I'd like to throw
Eggs at it. But I don't want it
To go forward
faster, as if it
Were drawn by
death. Let it run
Gentlry
backwards, pausing to
Greet happy times
again: the
Day when the
schoolboy wrote
His first poem;
the day when
The first jonquil
bloomed in
His little
garden; the day when
His father tossed
him into the
Lake without
water-wings to
Prove to him he
could swim.
"En
arri=E8re, ruckw=E4rts" and "in
Dietro;"
those are your orders,
Lazy clock, until
the spring
Breaks and it
doesn't matter
What you do
anymore.
--James Laughlin
James Laughlin, 83, Publisher of
Revolutionary Writers
The New York Times. Friday, November 14, 1997
By MEL GUSSOW
James Laughlin, the fiercely
independent publisher, editor and poet, who, as the founder and longtime head
of New Directions, published many of the most consequential and revolutionary
writers of his time, died Wednesday on the way to Sharon Hospital from his home
in Norfolk, Conn. He was 83.
The cause was complications
following a stroke, said Griselda Ohannessian, the managing director of New
Directions.
A man who combined bold taste
with a gentle demeanor, Laughlin made a major contribution to literature as
well as to the field of publishing. The list of his writers is staggering in
its length and artistic complexity. He was Vladimir Nabokov's first American
publisher and also printed the work of Tennessee Williams, William Carlos
Williams, Ezra Pound, Henry Miller, Djuna Barnes, Dylan Thomas, Delmore
Schwartz and John Hawkes, among many others.
There are large publishing houses
and small presses -- and then there is New Directions, a one-man operation that
grew to become one of the most influential book companies in the United States.
"He was the greatest publisher America ever had," Brendan Gill, an
author and critic, said Thursday. "Look at his backlist: There's nothing
comparable."
As poet Donald Hall said in an
article in The New York Times in 1981, two things were paramount on Laughlin's
list: "the assumption of quality and the assumption that these books would
not sell in the marketplace."
He added that Laughlin started
New Directions "in the service of verbal revolution," but he also
reprinted Henry James, E.M. Forster, Ronald Firbank and Evelyn Waugh "when
other publishers would not." Laughlin was, Hall said, a publisher "of
the middle way," someone "who by low overhead, by infusions of
capital from the responsible rich, by wit, or most likely by all three -- can
choose with taste, publish with economy and keep a good book in print."
Laughlin published "The
Crack Up" by F. Scott Fitzgerald; beat poets including Lawrence
Ferlinghetti and Gregory Corso, as well as authors in translation (Pablo
Neruda, Garcia Lorca, Boris Pasternak, Jorge Luis Borges, Yukio Mishima), and
on and on. He was indefatigable in his search for the new and adventurous. In a
field often known for its timidity and for its concern for profits above all,
Laughlin was a maverick. As he once said, "I don't have any business
acumen. I'm not good at deals and can't cope with agents." What he could
cope with were the personalities of some of the most difficult and temperamental authors.
With a characteristic boldness,
he would take chances on anyone he considered an original. Often one author led
him to another. At the recommendation of Pound, he took on William Carlos
Williams and Henry Miller. Williams brought him to Nathanael West and Miller
encouraged him to reprint Herman Hesse's "Siddharta," which became
one of New Directions' best sellers, along with Ferlinghetti's "Coney
Island of the Mind." T.S.
Eliot recommended
Djuna Barnes.
Because of his willingness to
listen to all suggestions and his close friendship with many of his authors, he
thought of them as "an extended
family," a family whose favored members included Pound and Nabokov. He
studied with the former and he went butterfly hunting with the latter,
although, for his own outdoor endeavors, he preferred to ski, swim and play
golf.
For all of his editorial
instinct, occasionally a book eluded him. He published Thomas Merton's poetry
but delayed reading "The Seven Storey Mountain" until he returned
from a skiing trip and found that Harcourt, Brace had accepted it. In 1954,
Nabokov sent him a copy of the manuscript of "Lolita," and asked him
if he would be interested in "publishing a time bomb." He liked the
novel, but had hesitations about the subject matter and apparently worried
about the repercussions. He suggested that the author send the novel to Olympia
Press in Paris, which published it.
The support for these
experimental authors derived from a family fortune in iron and steel. Laughlin
was born in Pittsburgh. His great-grandfather, James Laughlin, had founded the
family business, which became the Jones and Laughlin Steel Corp. As a boy,
James Laughlin 4th was taken by his father to visit the Laughlin mill. He
compared the setting to the Inferno: "It was scary -- tremendous slabs of
hot molten steel coming out of those giant furnaces, terrible noise, huge
cranes carrying metal over your head all molten." And he made up his mind that
he would never enter the business.
At the Choate School in
Wallingford, Conn., he studied with translator Dudley Fitts, and became editor
of the school literary magazine.
In 1933, before
he entered Harvard University, he published a story in Atlantic Monthly. His
aunt, Leila Laughlin Carlisle, was an important influence in his youth and he
often visited her at her home in Norfolk, Conn. She encouraged his literary
interests while trying to temper his enthusiasm for works of a more radical
nature. She doubtless would not have approved of "Lolita."
As a student at Harvard, he
majored in Latin and Italian.
Because he was
unhappy over the conservatism of teachers such as the poet Robert Hillyer, who
would leave the room when Pound or Eliot was mentioned, he took a leave of
absence in the middle of his sophomore year. He went to =46rance, where he met
Gertrude Stein and Alice B. Toklas.
Then he wrote to Pound in
Rapallo, Italy, and when the poet responded with the words, "Visibility
high," he went to visit him. He
stayed for six months, studying in Pound's personal "Ezuversity." In
1935, after reading Laughlin's poetry and
crossing out most of the words, Pound said, "You're never going to
be any good as a poet. Why don't you take up something useful?" He
suggested that he become a publisher, which proved to be the most salutary
advice for Laughlin as well as for the world of publishing.
Back at Harvard, and still an
undergraduate, he started New Directions with money from his father. He
published books out of a cottage at his aunt's home in Norfolk, and stored
copies in his college room. New Directions eventually moved to New York; he
continued to live in Norfolk.
His first book, published in
1936, was "New Directions in Prose & Poetry." It cost him $396 to
print 700 copies, which he sold for sold for $2 each. Loading his Buick with
copies, he became his own traveling salesman. The book was an anthology of
experimental writing whose contributors included Elizabeth Bishop, Kay Boyle,
e.e. cummings, Henry Miller, Marianne Moore, Gertrude Stein, Ezra Pound,
Wallace Stevens, William Carlos Williams -- and Tasilo Ribischka.
The last writer was identified as
"an Austrian now living in Saugus, Mass., where he is a night watchman at
a railroad grade crossing; this gives him lots of time to think."
Ribischka was Laughlin's pseudonym.
Despite his reputation for
thriftiness -- paying low salaries and delaying royalties when money was short
-- he nurtured writers in various ways, economically as well as artistically.
While publishing Delmore Schwartz, he also hired him as an editor and later
paid for his visits to his psychiatrist, without telling the poet. He would also
lend money to his writers.
In the 1940s, he began to publish
a series called "Five Young American Poets" (the poets included
Tennessee Williams, Randall Jarrell and Karl Shapiro). He also reprinted
authors (Fitzgerald, Forster, Stein) in a New Classics series and published
critical works under the title, "Makers of Modern Literature."
Despite Pound's discouragement,
he continued writing poetry, and his reputation as a poet grew. Hayden Carruth
praised Laughlin's work for "the layering voices of wit, irony and
fantasy" and "the breadth of literary sources." In his own
poetry, he paid homage to Greek and Latin models as well as to Pound and
Williams. His book "New and Selected Poems" is scheduled to be
published next year by New Directions.
His correspondence with his
authors fills volumes: A series published by W. W. Norton that already includes
Henry Miller, Pound, Schwartz, William
Carlos Williams and Kenneth Rexroth. Typically, the letters are mostly
"to" Laughlin rather than "from," with the publisher taking
a more reserved position as listener and responder.
In the Schwartz-Laughlin
collection, there is a letter from the publisher while visiting the family ski
lodge in Alta, Utah. Taking time out to
reflect on priorities, he wrote: "What is life for but to enjoy it, and
certainly in the scales of happiness a
fine day in the bright sun and snow on one of our mountains here is of
more worth than publishing a book by a dyspeptic author." Then he added a note of
cautionary advice: "Do not become a cheap writer. Keep up your standards.
It is better to be read by 800 readers and be a good writer than be read by all
the world and be Somerset Maugham."
He is survived by his wife,
Gertrude Huston Laughlin of Norfolk; a daughter, Leila Savitch of Manhattan;
two sons, Henry, of San =46rancisco and Paul, of Ann Arbor, Mich., and six
grandchildren.
In 1992 he was awarded the
National Book Foundation Medal for Distinguished Contribution to American
Letters. In an essay adapted from his
acceptance speech, he wrote, "It took 23 years for New Directions to get
into the black. But I've enjoyed a situation that every publisher must envy. No
trips to the bank to beg for a loan. Little worry about the bottom line. If a
good manuscript came along that I feared wouldn't sell much, we could do
it."
Then with the honesty of an
artist who knows the value of money, he added, "Of course, none of this
would have possible without the industry of my ancestors, the canny Irishmen
who immigrated in 1824 from County Down to Pittsburgh, where they built up what
became the fourth largest steel company in the country. I bless them with every
breath." To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: bother
antoninus excerpted from the Norton Anthology of Modern Poetry
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
From: Anastasios
Kozaitis <kozaita@rockvax.rockefeller.edu>
ADVENT
Fertile and rank
and rich the coastal rains Walked on the stiffened weeds and made them bend;
And stunned November chokes the cottonwood creeks For Autumn's end.
And the hour of
Advent draws on the small-eyed seeds That spilled in the pentacostal drought
from the fallen cup: Swept in the riddled summer-shrunken earth; Now the eyes
look up.
Faintly they
glint, they glimmer; they try to see; They pick at the crust; they touch at the
wasted rind.
Winter will pinch
them back but now they know, And will not stay blind.
And all Creation
will gather its glory up Out of the clouded winter-frigid womb;
And the sudden
Eye will swell with the gift of sight, And split the tomb.
--Brother
Antoninus
While Allen
Ginsberg and Gary Snyder were finding inspiration for their lives and their
poetry in the religions of the East, William Everson (aka Brother Antoninus)
sought out a tradition closer to home, Christianity: from 1951 to 1969, he was
Brother Antoninus of the Dominican Order of Preachers. His poems then were about the efforts, and
occasionally the revelations and satisfactions, of the religious life. "I believe," he wrote, "that
the solution to the problem of violence is found only in the Cross, but I also
believe that the poet alone can accomodate the violence of his age to the
Cross. This for me constitutes his
archetypal role as prophet to his time.
It is his failure, and it is awesome, that send the best minds of his
generation in search of solutions where none can ever be found."
He was born in
Sacramento, California, on September 10, 1912; brought up a Christian
Scientist, he became an agnostic during his teens. He dropped out of Fresno State College to
write poetry and to marry. Drafted as a
Conscientious Objector in 1943, Everson spent the war years in a succession of
work camps in the Pacific Northwest. In 1944, he published _The Residual
Years_, a collection of poems he had been writing since his college days.
After the war, he
went to San Francisco and was one of what he called "The anarchists and
poets around Kenneth Rexroth"; he had divorced and remarried, and his new
wife introduced him to Catholicism. In
1949 they separated. After a year on a
Guggenheim Fellowship and antoher doing work in the inner city of Oakland
Everson entered the Dominican Order as a lay brother. After six years of self-study and searching
he rejoined the literary scene in California, now "identifying openly with
the Beat Generation because it proclaimed against a triumphant American pragmatism
the necessity for a mystical vision" and because of its "dionysian
revolt" against the prevailing trends in postwar verse. He published six volumes of poetry as Brother
Antoninus.
He left the order
in 1969. He had written his
"Tendril in the Mesh" sequence from 1966 to 1968 while "still in
vows," but its writing changed him, for it is a poem of deep sexual
desire. By the end of 1969 the karma
(that is, fate) of his passion overwhelmed him, and in his final appearance as
a monk, on the afternoon of December 7 at UC-Davis, he read the ("Tendril")
sequence publicly for the first time . . . concluding his reading, he stripped
off his religious habit and fled the platform.
He married the woman to who he had dedicated "Tendrils," and,
with her young son, they took up residence near San Francisco. He published 12 books of poetry. He had to struggle with the painful onset of
Parkinson's disease, "rendering problematical all creativity, but
chastening the mind." Everson died
in 1994. (This bio was excerpted from
the Norton Anthology of Modern Poetry.)
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: brother
antoninus 2
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:00:20 -0800
Reply-To: landmax@teleport.com
Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Katye & Brandon
<landmax@TELEPORT.COM> Subject:
Re: Brother Antonius a.k.a. William Everson MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I read a lot of
Everson and Antonious when I was in the Fire Lookout -- and this poem
references that, so I thought I'd send it your (and the channel's) way...
Sitting
crosslegged on the bed, reading Everson, The insistent call of a Raven
Pulls my
attention
Outside the
windows.
I walk out the
door --
In my face a
warm, southerly breeze.
It is morning,
And the golden
light
Leans long
shadows to the West.
The Raven;
Black, sharp, and
animate,
Caws and circles
In the pale blue.
It spirals
upward, and changes direction.
It caws and caws
as though disturbed.
I can't read its
omen.
Quiet with
uncertainty, I turn to walk back in-- Pondering briefly
The usefulness of
separation.
'93
(ps, there's a
reference to famous Chinese poet in there, a sixpack to the first one who can call it)
Brandon Paul
Landis,
landmax@teleport.com
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Matthews
poem 1
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
From: Anastasios
Kozaitis <kozaita@rockvax.rockefeller.edu>
LIVING AMONG THE
DEAD
There is another world
but it is in this one.
Paul Eluard
First there were
those who died
before I was
born.
It was as if they
had just left
and their shadows
would
slip out after
them
under the door so
recently closed
the air in its
path was still
swirling to rest.
Some of the
furniture came from them,
I was told, and
one day
I opened two
chests
of drawers to
learn what the dead kept.
But it was when I
learned to read
that I began
always
to live among the
dead.
I remember
Rapunzel,
the improved
animals
in the Just-So
Stories, and a flock
of birds that
saved themselves
from a hunter by
flying in place
in the shape of a
tree
their wings
imitating the whisk
of wind in the
leaves.
My sons and I are
like some wine
the dead have
already bottled.
They wish us
well, but there is nothing they can do for us.
Sebastian cries
in his sleep,
I bring him into
my bed,
talk to him, rub
his back.
To help his sons
live easily
among the dead is
a father's great work.
Now Sebastion
drifts, soon he'll sleep.
We can almost
hear the dead
breathing. They sound like water
under a ship at
sea.
To love the dead
is easy.
They are final,
perfect.
But to love a
child
is sometimes to
fail at love
while the dead
look on
with their
abstract sorrow.
To love a child
is to turn
away from the
patient dead.
It is to sleep
carefully
in case he cries.
Later, when my
sons are grown
among their own
dead, I can
dive easily into
sleep and loll
among the coral
of my dreams
growing on
themselves
until at the end
I almost never
dream of anyone,
except my sons,
who is still
alive.
--William
Matthews (1942-1997)
This poem was
read at Matthews' funeral. Diane Bonds
was in attendance, and I thank her very much for offering it as the Poem of the
the Day today.
Thanks, DB.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: turkey
tanksgiving
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
> HOW TO COOK
A TURKEY
>
> Step 1: Go buy a turkey
>
> Step 2: Take a drink of whiskey (scotch) OR JD
>
> Step 3: Put turkey in the oven
>
> Step 4: Take another 2 drinks of whiskey
>
> Step 5: Set the degree at 375 ovens
>
> Step 6: Take 3 more whiskeys of drink
>
> Step 7: Turn oven the on
>
> Step 8: Take 4 whisks of drinky
>
> Step 9: Turk the bastey
>
> Step
10: Whiskey another bottle of get
>
> Step
11: Stick a turkey in the thermometer
>
> Step
12: Glass yourself a pour of whiskey
>
> Step
13: Bake the whiskey for 4 hours
>
> Step
14: Take the oven out of the turkey
>
> Step
15: Take the oven out of the turkey
>
> Step
16: Floor the turkey up off of the pick
>
> Step 17:
Turk the carvey
>
> Step
18: Get yourself another scottle of
botch
>
> Step
19: Tet the sable and pour yourself a
glass of turkey
>
> Step
20: Bless the saying, pass and eat out
>
> Have a safe
Thanksgiving everyone!
>To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: patchen
avarice and ambition
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Subject: Kenneth Patchen
From: Anastasios
Kozaitis <kozaita@rockvax.rockefeller.edu>
AVARICE AND
AMBITION ONLY WERE THE FIRST BUILDERS OF TOWNS AND FOUNDERS OF EMPIRE; They
said, go to, let us build us a city and a tower whose top may reach unto
Heaven, and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of
the earth (Genesis XI: 4). What was the
beginning of this city? What was it but
a concourse of thieves, and a sanctuary of criminals? It was justly named by the augury of no less
than twelve vultures, and the founder cemented his walls with the steaming
blood of his only brother. Not unlike to
this was the beginning even of the first town in the world, and such is the
original sin of most cities: Their
actual increase daily with their age and growth; the more people, the more
wicked all of them; everyone begins in his part to inflame the contagion, which
becomes at last so universal and so strong, that no precepts can be sufficient
preservatives, nor anything secure our safety, but flight from among the
infected. To spread our own disease
They scatter me
from church to gutter.
They smear their
doings over my hands.
I am lifted out
of wombs
And never put
back anywhere . . .
I look up from
the grass and down from the cathedral.
They honor me
with the stuff of dogs.
They place my
body down and fill themselves.
I smile from the
confessional and frown on the battlemount.
They offer me
their wives
And kill my
firstborn . . .
I am grown in
their hovels like a vegetable that can be eaten.
They won't wash
off my dirt.
They put me in
parades and distribute piece of my corpse.
They honor me
with statues and seal me in the hardening mold.
I could never
build a man
And I have come
here to worship . . .
I have only this
one wreath.
There is only one
grave anywhere.
I am standing
open.
You must not
lower your eyes.
I want them all
to know me.
I want my breath
to go over them.
They should
withhold nothing from me.
I am a respecter
of dirt.
This is your
house, you say. Then show Yourself! I have not been on earth
Long enough to
know about you. This
Collection of
ills and organs means nothing To me.
Everybody gets a whack at them.
Tell me what you
do inside there. I want All your
pain. I want to walk around where You
are. There is no war between us.
And every now and
again somebody sneaks up and Boots the hell out of you
But I could never
build one of these curious things And I have come here because of that
simplicity
Is it so very
dark in there, brothers?
Does it hurt all
the time?
Does it rain
without any end at all?
Are the same
monsters in your streets?
Why have you
nailed up your doors, brothers?
And every now and
again something looks down and Smears the doings of God over our murderous
hands
I should like to
pray now if I can stay out of a trench to do it There is no war between us, brothers
There is only one
war anywhere.
--Kenneth Patchen
On this day, the
day before Thanksgiving, I would like to give thanks to Kenneth Patchen for
providing me with much inspiration. I
want to thank all of you, too, for reading the poems and sending me all of your
encouraging words. Thank you and I wish
all of you and your families a joyful Thanksgiving. "See" you on Monday.
If anyone is
interested in finding out more information about Kenneth Patchen I recommend
visiting Marcus Williamson's website at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Patchen/ To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: personal
ad by allen ginsberg
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
*
Personal Ad by Allen Ginsberg
"I will send a picture too
if you will send me one of you"
R.CREELEY
Poet professor in
autumn years
seeks helpmate
companion protector friend young lover w/empty compassionate soul
exhuberant
spirit, straightforward handosome athletic physique & boundless mind,
corageous warrior who may also like women & girls, no problem, to share bed
meditation apartment Lower East Side, help inspire mankind conquer world anger
& guilt, empowered by Whitman Blake Rimbaud Ma Rainey & Vivaldi,
familiar respecting Art's primordial majesty, priapic carefree playfull
harmless slave or master, mortally tender passing swift time, photographer,
musician, painter, poet, yuppie or scholar -- Find me here in New York alone
with Alone going to lady psychiatrist who says Make time in your life for
someone you can call darling, honey, who holds you dear can get excited &
lay his head on your hearth in peace.
October 8, 1987
poem from
"Cosmopolitan Greetings."
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: AG buried
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:28:54 EST
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: CIRCULATION
<breithau@KENYON.EDU> Subject:
Re: Fwd: allen ginsberg
I think Allen was
divided into thre parts, his ashes, I mean. One third is going to be burried in
the family plot in NJ. Not sure where the other two thirds are going. At least
that's the latest I heard. Leave it to Allen, to spread himself around even in
death.
Dave B.To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: terry
berrigan talk
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"... it's
very difficult, almost impossible to know what is being said, until you have
some sense of what the person speaking is like, and to whom the person is
speaking. So I'm saying that content is not there to provide form. That is,
form is not an extension of content. I deny that. I don't believe that it is in
any way true. Form is not an extension of anything. Form and content are the
same thing. Inseparable and interwoven. And you absolutely cannot say that form
is an extension of content.
"Bob Creeley didn't say it, in case
anybody's interested.
I've had long
talks with him about this. He said something, and Charles Olson said, You mean
that form is an extension of content? And Bob said (grunt) and Charles said,
great, and then he wrote 700 essays and said, as Robert Creeley says, form is
an extension of content. Form is not an extension of content."
-----Ted Berrigan
(from a talk given at the Naropa Institute,
"The Business of
Writing Poetry" published
in _On the Level Everyday:
Selected Talks
on Poetry and the Art of
Living_, edited
by Joel Lewis (Jersey City:
Talisman House,
Publishers, 1997) p. 80.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: larson
nicolette dies
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:48:55 -0500
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
From: "Paul McDonald,
TeleReference LA, Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Nicolette Larson
Subject: CNN QuickNews - Text Version
> SINGER
NICOLETTE LARSON DIES
Pop singer
Nicolette Larson, who rose to the top of the charts in the 1970s, has died at
age 45. Larson suffered from complications of cerebral edema, an abnormal
accumulation of fluid in the brain, the UCLA Medical Center said.
During her long
musical career, Larson performed with Jimmy Buffett, The Beach Boys and Willie
Nelson. She reached No. 1 on record charts with the hit "Lotta Love,"
which was written by Neil Young.To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Poet
Denise Levertov Dies at 74
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:44:29 -0800
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Brian Carpenter
<bricarp@PAUL.SPU.EDU> Subject:
Denise Levertov (1923-1997) (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
December 23, 1997
Poet Denise Levertov Dies at 74
Filed at 6:19
a.m. EST
By The Associated
Press
SEATTLE (AP) --
Denise Levertov, an intense, lyrical poet whose work evolved into free-form
commentary on the social issues that were her passion, died Saturday of
complications from lymphoma. She was 74.
Influenced by
William Carlos Williams and other poets of her adopted country, Ms. Levertov
addressed such political and social themes as war, the environment and
feminism.
``She was really
socially committed. It was important to her to go and protest at nuclear
sites,'' said Barbara Epler, Ms. Levertov's editor since the mid-1980s at New
Directions, her longtime publisher.
``She also
protested the Vietnam War. She really put her money where her mouth was. It's
like she was very 19th century with her vision of what poetry was and how total
a calling it was.''
In a 1965 essay,
Ms. Levertov described her poetry as aspiring toward ``organic form.''
``In organic
poetry the metric movement, the measure, is the direct expression of the
movement of perception,'' she wrote.
The idea, said
Fran Polek, professor emeritus at Gonzaga University in Spokane, Wash., is to
have the form arise ``naturally from the particular topic or the particular
approach, just as plant or flower grows in a particular way in certain soils.''
``Her poetry looks
in a mystical way for inner reality, inner truth,'' Polek said. ``She might
start with a mundane-sounding topic, but she's always trying to find some
mystical basis for reality. I think this is her charm, really.''
Ms. Levertov
published more than 20 volumes of poetry since 1946, the most recent being
``Sands of the Well'' in 1996.
She won such
awards as the Shelley Memorial Award, the Robert Frost Medal, the Lenore
Marshall Prize and the Lannan Award, along with a Guggenheim Fellowship and a
National Institute of Arts and Letters grant.
Ms. Levertov was
born in England and was educated largely at home. During World War II, she
worked as a nurse and later married an American soldier, Mitchell Goodman, who
became a politically active writer and teacher.
They moved to the
United States in 1948 and Ms. Levertov became a U.S.
citizen in 1955.
She and Goodman had a son named Nikolai before they divorced in 1974. Goodman
died earlier this year.
Ms. Levertov, who
taught at Stanford University from 1981 to 1994, moved to Seattle in 1989.
****
from The New York
Times
December 23, 1997
Denise Levertov, 74, Poet and
Activist
By MEL GUSSOW
Denise Levertov, a poet of
intense emotion and fervid political conviction, died on Saturday at the
Swedish Hospital in Seattle, where she lived. She was 74.
The cause was
complications from lymphoma, said Griselda Ohannessian of New Directions, Ms.
Levertov's publisher.
As a poet and
political activist, Ms. Levertov was "a touchstone, a maintainer for our
generation," the poet Robert Creeley, one of her first publishers in the
United States, said Monday. "She was a constantly defining presence in the
world we shared, a remarkable and transforming poet for all of us. She always
had a vivid emotional response and also a completely dedicated sense of
political and social need."
The poet Kenneth
Rexroth once wrote that Ms. Levertov was "the most subtly skillful poet of
her generation, the most profound, the most modest, the most moving."
In the tradition
established by William Carlos Williams, she wrote with a concrete immediacy of
language. She spoke directly through her poetry, favoring commonplace objects
and images over large philosophical concepts.
The author of
more than 30 books of poetry, essays and translations, she wrote with great
particularity and sensitivity about aspects of love, spiritual as well as
erotic. More and more, her work conveyed her political awareness and social
consciousness. She was, as in the title of her first book of essays, "The
Poet in the World."
At the same time,
in her art she would contemplate her own life, writing confessional poems about
her marital and familial problems. For her, content and form were "in a dynamic
state of interaction."
In "The Ache
of Marriage," she wrote:
"The ache of
marriage:
thigh and tongue,
beloved,
are heavy with
it,
it throbs in the
teeth
We look for
communion
and are turned
away, beloved,
each and each
It is leviathan
and we
in its belly
looking for joy,
some joy
not to be known
outside it
two by two in the
ark of
the ache of
it."
And in "Of
Being," she wrote:
"I know this
happiness
is provisional:
the looming
presences --
great suffering,
great fear --
withdraw only
into peripheral
vision:
but ineluctable
this shimmering
of wind in the
blue leaves:
this flood of
stillness
widening the lake
of sky:
this need to
dance,
this need to
kneel:
this mystery:"
A defining moment
of her life was the Vietnam War. She helped found a group called the Writers'
and Artists' Protest Against the War in Vietnam, she was actively involved in
the anti-nuclear movement and in 1967 she edited a volume of poetry for the War
Resisters League. In the same year, she published "The Sorrow Dance,"
a book of poems whose sorrow included the war and also the death of the poet's
sister.
Ms. Levertov was
born in Ilford, England. Her father was Paul Philip Levertoff, a Russian Jew
who converted to Christianity and became an Anglican priest. Her mother was
from Wales.
Her father's
conversations about the family background in Hasidism and her mother's
knowledge of Welsh and English folklore proved influential.
Educated by her
parents, she was introduced to poetry by her older sister, Olga, and was
writing from an early age.
During World War
II, she worked as a nurse in London and also began publishing her poetry. In
1940 her first poem appeared in Poetry Quarterly, and, said Rexroth, he and
other poets were soon "in excited correspondence about her" as
"the baby of the new Romanticism." Her first volume of verse,
"The Double Image," was published in 1946.
After the war she
married Mitchell Goodman, an American writer, and for several years they lived
in France near Creeley, who was a friend of Goodman. In 1948 the couple moved
to the United States, where Ms. Levertov studied and was influenced by such
modernist poets as Williams, Wallace Stevens and Ezra Pound, and also continued
her artistic relationship with Creeley, Robert Duncan and other Black Mountain
poets.
Both she and her
husband frequently spoke out on political issues, particularly regarding the
Vietnam War. Goodman was convicted along with Dr. Benjamin Spock for counseling
resistance of the draft. Ms. Levertov and Goodman were divorced in 1975.
Goodman died last February. They had one son, Nikolai, who lives in Seattle.
When Ms.
Levertov's 11th collection of verse, "The Freeing of the Dust," was
published in 1975, the poet David Ignatow wrote in The New York Times Book
Review that "by nearly unanimous agreement Levertov was well on her way to
becoming one of our leading poets" with "her forceful and
compassionate presentations of urban lives" and "the beauty and
sensuousness of her nature poems." By shifting to "passionate Vietnam
poems," she had lost some of her following but gained a new vitality.
Ms. Levertov
wrote through six decades. In the 1990s, she published "New and Selected
Essays"; four poetry volumes, "Evening Train," "Sands of
the Well," "The Life Around Us: Selected Poems on Nature" and
"The Stream and The Sapphire: Selected Poems on Religious Themes,"
and the prose memoir "Tesserae: Memories and Suppositions."
She taught at
colleges and universities, and served as poetry editor of The Nation and Mother
Jones. Among her honors were the Elmer Holmes Bobst Award in poetry and the
$50,000 Lannan Prize. In 1996, she won the Governor's Award from the Washington
state Commission for the Humanities.
She felt
compelled to clarify and justify the uses of poetry in a world of political
crisis. In "New and Selected Essays" she wrote, "One is in
despair over the current manifestation of malevolent imbecility and the
seemingly invincible power of rapacity, yet finds oneself writing a poem about
the trout lilies in the spring woods. And one has promised to speak at a
meeting or help picket a building. If one is conscientious, the only solution
is to attempt to weigh conflicting claims at each crucial moment, and in
general to try to juggle well and keep all the oranges dancing in the air at
once."
Ms. Levertov was
a masterly juggler of words, images and feelings, as well as a defender of
artistic and political liberty.
In
"Overheard Over S.E. Asia," she wrote:
"I am the
snow that burns.
I fall
wherever men send
me to fall --
but I prefer
flesh, so smooth, so dense:
I decorate it in
black, and seek the bone."
===================================================================== To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: notes on
Olson's "The Kingfishers"
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:15:19 -0800
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: notes on Olson's "The
Kingfishers" Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just finished an
in-depth reading of Charles Olson's "The Kingfishers" despite a heady
reading schedule otherwise--mostly at Brian's consistent insistence I'm
depriving myself of a master I'm akin to--and am, of course, quite splendidly
elated.
Despite the
rather gloomy forecast ("Bad weather ahead, says the prophet" GD) I
find this a most encouraging poem poetics-wise. Along with the poem itself I've
consumed Guy Davenport's essay "Olson" contained in _Geography of the
Imagination_ as well as Creeley's foreword to _Selected Poems_.
I realize now
I've read this poem at least several times before, early on and come away with
a vague idea of Olson's extension of poetic canon to the paleolithic, and of a
terse, nearly Romantic naturalness, and of a Poundian terror of civilizations--
and though there's much to get from the surface--one begins to get used to
poets who expect much from a reader (and with audiences so imaginary and
paper-thin in this disconsolate era who can blame an author for being seemingly
obscurantist when the rewards are so incredible)--clearly missing out.
It occurs to me
now I needed to fight my own battle without Pound --unmediated-- and at age 36
am more than grateful to see Olson's more masterly and proximal battle with the
(his) master--and deliver more sublime, but not dissimilar results,
motivations, goals, and notable objections to various Pound forms and contents.
One isn't on the wrong track to move towards similar absorptions.
Nevertheless,
"The Kingfishers" is Poundian; and through direct quotation,
technical rhyme, and culminative rhetorical passage imposes on _The Cantos_ a
direct response and transformative assessment/absorption of the _real point_ in
EP.
"The
Kingfishers" answers the whole Pound issue and extends its innovations
from partisan political applications to one centuries' troubles to a more apt
and less treacherous quasi-epochal though fully human scale.
*** *** ***
Davenport
identifies a tripartite ideogram in "The Kingfishers," the components
of which are Mao Zedong, the genus of bird known as kingfisher, and the E on
the stone of the Oracle at Delphi and the classical discourse of it in
Plutarch's Pythian dialogue (the passage in the poem is from Ammonius' dialogue
and is cited in Davenport's essay). Ammonius discusses the paradoxes of
Heraclitus, namely that no man may step in the _same river twice_; that we die
_not one but many_ deaths in an "unceasing & unstaying process of
generation." No one is one person, "but we become many persons. GD,
94"
"Men and
(their) history are discrete and continuous [from a biological standpoint]. Man
is still the late Pleistocene mammal generated simultaneously in evolution with
the elephant and horse. Unlike human biology, human culture is discrete;
discontinuous. GD, 94
*continuous,
discrete biology:
Natural process
is represented in the poem by the kingfisher, which also has a mythic component
in its interaction through time with the human species.
*discontinuous,
discrete human civilization:
Mao in the poem
prepares to launch an age of barbarism to destroy the civilization Pound, via
the _Analects_ most successfully
identified with the terrestrial paradise of moral and social values (likely his
dyspeptic nature was less able to project blame all the way to China).
Davenport notes that this is analagous in the poem to Cortes the killer. He
will also calculate slaughter and justify it on ideological grounds--the
Mexicans (Aztec and Mayan) made human sacrifice, he tells himself and the
world, therefore must be slaughtered.
Olson's Mexican
material comes from Wm. H. Prescott's _History of the Conquest of Mexico"
(1843). The poem was written, presciently enough, before his first trip to the
Yucatan.
Where Ruskin and
Pound saw greed and governments to blame for social dissonance, Davenport tells
us, Olson needed a larger monster--epochal time itself and the nature of change
in cultural discontinuity. For Olson, a shift in the focus of attention in the
lives of men meant a change or discontinuity in culture. The cybernetic concept
of _feedback_, known to historians as the question of whether history _teaches_
us anything, of whether History exists, is answered by the modalization of
_history_ as a concept of personal duty and morality. You _go find it_. You _go
find it_ with your imagination.
This is what the
poet adds that is of general use. The recombination of the many deaths into a
coherent vision. A comparison of historical events is nothing without
imagination, no history. A suggestion for practical techniques for the cultural
transmission serves a supra-evolutionary purpose: the cure to barbarism and
discontinuity. Olson, living and writing in the years of Hiroshima and its
aftermath has good reason to enquire. The survival of the species at stake in
the Atomic and technological age forebodes untold--and perhaps
disastrous--changes. There may be no humanity to conclude with.
Barbarism begins
at home. Hot-rods, the Holocaust, and Himmler. "A shift of attention lets
in the jungle."
The canon includes
awe for the unknown, respect for the humbling realities of the tenuous hold of
life humanity embodies, paleolithic time, continental drift, and it is against
that full backdrop that poetic suggestions must make their impact.
The imagination
and its systems lie in disarray in the 1940s.
To what end is a
system?
Olson asks:
"I pose you your question:
shall you uncover
honey /
where maggots are?
I hunt among stones
*** *** ***
Interestingly, Davenport's
exposition of the fossil and cultural evidence focuses on the intellectual
battle over that emergence and not on the destruction of its heritage that is
implied in such truculence as expressed by Wordsworth. It was becoming clear to
more generous midns that primitive man and cultures were not only fully human
but might've provided untold wonders.
Perhaps forever
lost wonders.
The destruction
of fossil and geological record that arose when ignorance and a lack of awe
coincided with the European migration to America, such as that which occurred
very near Davenport's old Kentucky home--at Blue Lick, Salt River, Big Bone--
is a deeper, more specific image.
That we are now
to behave in a manner sustainable to our own best interests and hopeful futures,
and must do so without the paleolithic cultures --is undeniable.
James A. Gardner
The solid book we wrote *
>* __o Cannot be found
today *
>* __\<,_ *
>* (_)/ (_) http://www.rahul.net/jag/ *
========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:27:20 -0800
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: The Kingfishers, 1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Kingfishers,
1
1
What does not
change / is the will to change .
.
He woke, fully
clothed, in his bed. He
remembered only
one thing, the birds, how when he came in, he had gone around the rooms and got
them back in their cage, the green one first, she with the bad leg, and then
the blue, the one they had hoped was a male
.
.
Otherwise? Yes,
Fernand, who had talked lispingly of Albers & ngkor Vat.
He had left the
part without a word. How he got up, got into his coat, I do not know. When I
saw him, he was at the door, but it did not matter, he was already sliding
along the wall of the night, losing himself in some crack of the ruins. That it
should have been he who said, "The kingfishers!
who cares
for their
feathers
now?"
.
.
His last words
had been, "The pool is slime." Suddenly everyone, ceasing their talk,
sat in a row around him, watched they did not so much hear, or pay attention,
they wondered, looked at each other, smirked, but listened, he repeated and
repeated, could not go beyond his thought "The pool the
kingfishers' feathers were wealth why
did the export stop?"
.
.
It was then he
left
.
.
Charles Olson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:29:40
-0800 Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing
List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kingfishers, 1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Otherwise?
Yes, Fernand, who had talked lispingly of Albers & ngkor Vat.
Otherwise? Yes,
Fernand, who had talked lispingly of Albers & Angkor Vat.
I hate when that
happens.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:42:51
-0800 Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing
List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET> Subject: The Kingfishers, 2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Kingfishers,
2
.
.
I thought of the
E on the stone, and of what Mao said la lumiere"
.
but the kingfisher
de l'aurore"
.
but the kingfisher
est devant nous!
he got the color of his breast
from the heat of the setting
sun!
.
The features are,
the feebleness fo the feet (syndactylism of the 3rd & 4th digit) the bill,
serrated, sometimes a pronounced beak, the wings where the color is, short and
round, the tail inconspicuous.
.
.
But not these
things were the factors. Not the birds.
The legends are
legends. Dead,
hung up indoors, the kingfisher will not indicate a favoring wind,
or avert the
thunderbolt. Nor, by its nesting, still the waters, with the new year, for
seven deays.
It is true, it
does nest with the opening year, but not on the waters.
It nests at the
end of a tunnel bored by itself in a bank. There, six or eight white and
translucent eggs are laid, on fishbones not on bare clay, on bones thrown up in
pellets by the birds.
.
On
these rejectamenta (as they accumulate they form a cup-shaped structure) the
young are born.
And, as they are
fed and grow, this nest of excrement and decayed fish becomes
a dripping, fetid mass .
.
Mao concluded:
nous devons
.
nous lever
.
et agir!
.
.
Chales Olson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:53:15
-0800 Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing
List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: The Kingfishers, 3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Kingfishers,
3
.
.
When the
attentions change / the jungle leaps in
even the stones are split
they rive .
.
.
Or,
enter
that other
conqueror we more naturally recognize he so resembles ourselves
.
But the E
cut so rudely on
that oldest stone
sounded
otherwise,
was differently
heard
.
as, in another
time, were treasures used: .
(and, later, much
later, a fine ear thought a scarlet coat)
.
.
"of green
feathers feet, beaks and eyes
of gold
.
"animals likewise,
resembling snails .
"a large wheel,
gold, with figures of unknown four-foots,
and worked with tufts
of leaves, weight
3800 ounces
.
"last, two birds,
of thread and featherwork, the quills
gold, the feet
gold, the two birds
perched on two reeds
gold, the reeds arising
from two embroidered mounds,
one yellow, the other
white.
.
"And from each reed hung
seven feathered
tassels.
.
In this instance,
the priests
(in dark cotton
robes, and dirty,
their dishevelled
hair matted with blood, and flowing wildly over their shoulders)
rush in among the
people, calling on them to protect their gods
.
And all now is
war
where so lately
there was eace,
and the sweet
brotherhood, the use
of tilled fields.
.
.
Charles Olson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:54:25
-0800 Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing
List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kingfishers, 3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:53 PM
12/27/97 -0800, Jim Gardner wrote:
>where so
lately there was eace,
where so lately
there was peace,
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:11:46
-0800 Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing
List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: The Kingfishers, 4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Kingfishers,
4
.
.
Not one death but
many,
not accumulation
but change, the feed-back proves, the feed-back is the law
Into the same river no
man steps twice
When fire dies air dies
No one remains, nor is,
one .
Around an
apparance, one common model, we grow up many. Else how is it,
if we remain the
ame,
we take pleasures
now
in what we did
not take pleasure before? love contrary objects? admire and/or find fault? use
other words, feel other passions, have
nor figure,
appearance, disposition, tissue the same?
To be in different states without a
change
is not a possibility
.
We can be precise.
The factors are
in the animal
and/or the machine the factors are communication and/or control, both involve
the message. And what is the message? The message is a discrete4 or continuous
sequence of measurable events distributed in time .
is the birth of
air, is
the birth of
water, is
a state between
the origin and
the end, between
birth and the
beginning of
another fetid
nest
.
is change,
presents
no more than
itself
.
And the too
strong grasping of it,
when it is
pressed together and condensed, loses it
.
This very thing
you are
.
.
.
II
They buried their dead in a
sitting posture
serpent cane
razor ray of the sun .
And she sprinkled water on the head
of the child, crying
"Ciao-coatl!
Cioa-coatl!"
with her face to the west
.
Where the bones are found, in each
personal heap
with what each enjoyed, there is
always
the Mongolian louse
.
The light is in
the east. Yes. And we must rise, act. Yet in the west, despite the apparent
darkness (the whiteness which covers all), if you look, if you can bear,
if you can, long enough .
as long as it was
necessary for him, my guide
to look into the yellow
of that longest-lasting rose .
so you must, and,
in that whiteness, into that face, with what candor, look .
and, considering
the dryness of the place
the long absence of an adequate
race .
(of the two who first came,
each a conquistador, one healed, the other
tore the eastern idols down,
toppled
the temple walls, which, says
the excuser
were black from human gore) .
hear
hear, where the
dry blood talks
where the old appetite walks
.
la piu saporita et migliore
che si possa truovar al mondo .
where it hides,
look
in the eye how it
runs
in the flesh /
chalk
.
but under these petals
in the emptiness
regard the light,
contemplate
the flower
.
.
whence it arose
.
.
with what violence benevolence is
bought
what cost in gesture justice brings
what wrongs domestic rights involve
what stalks
this silence
.
what pudor pejorocracy affronts
how awe, night-rest and
neighborhood can rot
what breeds where dirtiness is law
what crawls
below
.
.
.
III .
I am no Greek, hath not
th'advantage.
And of course, no Roman:
he can take no risk that
matters,
the risk of beauty least
of all.
.
But I have my kin, if for
no other reason than
(as he said, next of kind)
I commit myself, and,
given my freedom, I'd be a
cad
if I didn't. Which is most
true.
.
It works out this way,
despite the disadvantage.
I offer, in explanation, a
quote:
si j'ai du gout, ce n'est
gueres
que pour la terre et les
pierres.
.
Despite the discrepancy
(an ocean courage age)
this is also true: if i have any
taste
it is only because I have
interested myself
in what was slain in the
sun .
I pose you your
question: .
shall you uncover
honey /
where maggots are?
.
.
I hunt among
stones .
.
Charles Olson
fin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:13:13
-0800 Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing
List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kingfishers, 4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:11 PM
12/27/97 -0800, Jim Gardner wrote:
>if we remain
the ame,
if we remain the
same,
=====================================================================
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: dylan
and gregory peck
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:46:23 -0500
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Standing In Line To See A
Movie Starring Gregory Peck
The highlight of
my holiday was on the 26th, when Gregory Peck paid a tribute to Bob Dylan, now
a Kennedy Center Honoree. He said that
when he, (Gregory Peck) heard Bob Dylan sing for the first time, he remembered
being a young boy and watching 4th of July parades that featured still living
Civil War Veterans.
He then quoted
from the following song and said that like the character in the movie "The
Gunfighter" Bob Dylan was not about to get out of town before the shooting
started.
In case any of
you haven't had the pleasure, here is the song:
Brownsville Girl, by Bob Dylan and Sam
Shepard
Well, there was this movie I seen one time,
About a man riding 'cross the desert and
it starred Gregory Peck.
He was shot down by a hungry kid
trying to make a name for himself.
The townspeople wanted to crush that kid
down and
string him up by the neck.
Well, the marshal, now he beat that kid to a
bloody pulp
as the dying gunfighter lay in the sun
and gasped for his last breath.
Turn him loose, let him go, let him say he
outdrew me
fair and square,
I want him to feel what it's like
to every moment face his death.
Well, I keep seeing this stuff and it just
comes a-rolling in
And you know it blows right through me
like a ball and chain.
You know I can't believe we've lived so long
and
are still so far apart.
The memory of you keeps callin' after me
like a rollin' train.
I can still see the day that you came to me
on the painted desert
In your busted down Ford and your platform
heels
I could never figure out why you chose
that particular place to meet
Ah, but you were right. It was perfect
as I got in behind the wheel.
Well, we drove that car all night into San
Anton'
And we slept near the Alamo,
your skin was so tender and soft.
Way down in Mexico you went out to find a
doctor and
you never came back.
I would have gone on after you but I didn't
feel like letting my head get blown
off.
Well, we're drivin' this car and the sun
is comin' up over the Rockies,
Now I know she ain't you but she's here and
she's got that dark rhythm in her
soul.
But I'm too over the edge and I ain't in the mood anymore
to remember the times when I was your
only man
And she don't want to remind me.
She knows this car would go out of control.
Brownsville girl
with your Brownsville curls,
teeth like pearls
shining like the moon above
Brownsville girl,
show me all around the world,
Brownsville girl,
you're my honey love.
Well, we crossed the panhandle
and then we headed towards Amarillo
We pulled up where Henry Porter used to
live.
He owned a wreckin' lot
outside of town about a mile.
Ruby was in the backyard hanging clothes,
she had her red hair tied back.
She saw us come rolling up in a trail
of dust.
She said, "Henry ain't here but you can
come on in,
he'll be back in a little
while."
Then she told us how times were tough
and about how she was thinkin'
of bummin' a ride back to where she
started.
But ya know, she changed the subject
every time money came up.
She said, "Welcome to the land of the
living dead."
You could tell she was so broken-hearted.
She said, "Even the swap meets around
here
are getting pretty corrupt."
"How far are y'all going?"
Ruby asked us with a sigh.
"We're going all the way
'til the wheels fall off and burn,
'Til the sun peels the paint
and the seat covers fade
and the water moccasin dies."
Ruby just smiled and said,
"Ah, you know some babies never
learn."
Something about that movie though,
well I just can't get it out of my
head
But I can't remember why I was in it
or what part I was supposed to play.
All I remember about it was Gregory Peck
and the way people moved
And a lot of them seemed to be lookin' my
way.
Brownsville girl
with your Brownsville curls,
teeth like pearls
shining like the moon above
Brownsville girl,
show me all around the world,
Brownsville girl,
you're my honey love.
Well, they were looking for
somebody with a pompadour.
I was crossin' the street
when shots rang out.
I didn't know whether to duck or to run,
so I ran.
"We got him cornered in the
churchyard,"
I heard somebody shout.
Well, you saw my picture in the
Corpus Christi Tribune.
Underneath it, it said,
"A man with no alibi."
You went out on a limb to testify for me,
you said I was with you.
Then when I saw you break down
in front of the judge and cry real
tears,
It was the best acting I saw anybody do.
Now I've always been the kind of person
that doesn't like to trespass
but sometimes you just find yourself
over the line.
Oh if there's an original thought out there,
I could use it right now.
You know, I feel pretty good,
but that ain't sayin' much.
I could feel a whole lot better,
If you were just here by my side
to show me how.
Well, I'm standin' in line in the rain
to see a movie starring Gregory Peck,
Yeah, but you know it's not the one
that I had in mind.
He's got a new one out now,
I don't even know what it's about
But I'll see him in anything
so I'll stand in line.
You
know, it's funny how things never turn out
the way you had 'em planned.
The only thing we knew for sure about Henry
Porter
is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.
And you know there was somethin' about you
baby
that I liked that was always
too good for this world
Just like you always said there was
something
about me you liked that
I left behind in the French Quarter.
Strange how people who suffer together
have stronger connections than
people who are most content.
I don't have any regrets,
they can talk about me plenty when
I'm gone.
You always said people don't do what they
believe in,
they just do what's most convenient,
then they repent.
And I always said, "Hang on to me,
baby, and
let's hope that the roof stays
on."
There was a movie I seen one time,
I think I sat through it twice.
I don't remember who I was or where I was
bound.
All I remember about it was
it starred Gregory Peck,
he wore a gun and
he was shot in the back.
Seems like a long time ago,
long before the stars were torn down.
Brownsville girl
with your Brownsville curls,
teeth like pearls
shining like the moon above
Brownsville girl,
show me all around the world,
Brownsville girl,
you're my honey love.
1986 Special Rider Music
=====================================================================
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: The
Peace Poem
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Let the sun shine
in the night time and please no more dying.
Please let us
have peace and no more fighting. People are dying.
Southwest
Elementary
San Antonio, TX,
US
Chaque nation
envoie des casques bleus
Pour que le monde
soit plus heureux
Ecole
Fondamentale
Fleurus, Belgique
As I look around the
world I sigh,
And think, We
could at least give peace a try.
Exeter-West
Greenwich Junior High
West Greenwich,
RI, US
Peace without
Comes from peace
within.
Glenala State
High School
Brisbane,
Queensland, Australia
Peace remained by
my side until I understood what she wanted from me-That I be free
Parque Ecologico
Porangaba, Brazil
Let it blow in
your direction
Let it touch you,
melt you and mould you
SOS-Hermann
Gmeiner International College, primary school Tema, Ghana
No war, no
violence,
and lots of
silence.
St. Dominic Savio
School
Weyburn,
Saskatchewan, Canada
We don't like it
that our fathers must be soldiers and shoot other children's fathers.
Engbrottsskolan
Ctvidaberg,
Sweden
There comes an
army; here comes another.
They meet in the
middle and declare PEACE.
Holy Cross
Primary School,
Western Cape,
South Africa
Je te cherche
depuis si longtemps que j'ai cru un court instant te posséder, une fois encore
tu t'es échappé
Maladihre
Neuchatel, Suisse
Peace is in the
waves at sea.
Peace must begin
with you and me!
Gander Middle
School
Gander, New
Foundland, Canada
...The war is not
around him but trapped inside his head.
War is not
battles; it is struggles without end...
Friends School of
Baltimore
Baltimore, MD, US
Why destroy when
we could create,
Keep the peace,
erase the hate.
Normal Community
West High School
Normal, IL, US
Cultivemos una
semillita de esta soñada utopia, si le ponemos sabor a vainilla y esencia de
sol, dejara de ser un sueño para ser una flor.
Centro Educativo
Integral, secondary school Quito, Ecuador
Peace is
something the world should share It's all about loving, we dare you to care!
Elmcrest
Elementary School
Liverpool, NY, US
En las aldeas y
las ciudades, en las montañas y en las campiñas ninguno falta, todos están:
están los viejos y están los jóvenes, están los hijos y están las madres.
Instituto José
Vasconcelos, nivel primaria Mexico, Mexico
The condition of
the heart can alter the perspective of a person.
The condition of
the hearts of a nation can alter the state of mankind - PEACE.
Walnut Ridge
Middle School Library
Walnut Ridge, AR,
US
From my mother's
womb I came out yelling for life.
It's great I am
surviving-but there's no peace.
Joseph Nabbingo
Primary School
Kampala, Uganda
J'ai vécu comme
un oiseau,
prés des nuages,
prés de la chanson des anges.
Nakkila senior
high school,
Nakkila, Finland
Peace is the seed
that sprouts all light, We must lower the greed, and start the fight.
Silver Sands
Middle School
Port Orange, FL,
US
I wish I could
have stopped what caused the first human to be violent to another.
Then maybe the
world would still be living in peace.
Asir Academy
Khamis-Mushayt,
Saudi Arabia
Why have a war -
It's all happened
before?
Lornshill Academy
Clackmannanshire,
Scotland, United Kingdom
World peace is
like a frog and a fly hugging each other.
Peace is like
sweet strawberries in the air.
Finger Lake
Elementary School
Palmer, Alaska,
US
GUERRE, paix,
guerre, paix, guerre, PAIX.
Quand ferons-NOUS
ensemble, le bon choix?
École secondaire
publique De La Salle
Ottawa, ON,
Canada
In the sky we see
a dove
The dove means
peace, the dove means love
Canberra Church
of England Girls' Grammar Junior School Deakin, Australia
If only PEACE
were understood,
What couldn't be
now,in the future could.
Milwaukee German
Immersion School
Milwaukee, WI, US
De sus alas,
lentamente una pluma se desprende, La paloma agoniza, nuestra paz se desvanece.
Colegio Marymount
Cuernavaca,
Morelos, Mexico
Don't shoot at me
my friend,
I'm the same as
you...a man.
Varga Katalin
Gimnazium
Szolnok, Hungary
In his own home,
in his own bed, a dying soldier closes his eyes, smiles, glad to be home He has
lived for a world of peace, fought for a world of peace, died for a world of
peace, the world of peace he goes to.
Roseville College
Sydney, Australia
Cuando el amor
une a la gente, la paz prevalece.
La paz del mundo
depende de la unidad de la gente.
Penquis Valley
High School
Milo, ME, US
Ne les écoute pas
s'ils te disent que la guerre est le meilleur moyen d'avoir la paix, Qu'il faut
prendre les armes au nom de la paix, ne les écoute pas.
Collège
Saint-Charles
Arles, France
Peace is yellow
like the sun's rays shining down on us.
Peace is yellow
like a shooting star lighting up the night.
Narragansett
Elementary School
Narragansett, RI,
US
If a rose isn't
picked, it stays healthy but not forever If peace isn't spread, it will last,
but not for long
St Peters
Lutheran College
Indooroopilly,
Queensland, Australia
Pieces Pieces
Pieces... Stitch them with the threads of nonviolence, love, and equality. Ah
hah! Beautiful dress of Peace!
Global Vision
Students (attached to Madarai Kamaraj University) Madarai, India
What is peace?
The most beautiful thing the world can make.
Is it true? We
don't know, but it's a great thing to reach for.
Arcyadia
Elementar
W.Taylorsville,
UT, US
If you have a
friend and that friend gets more friends And those friends get still more
friends, together we make friendship.
Runanskolan
Sollentuna,
Sweden
White dove,
flying in the wind,
Take my home
under your wing!
German Language
High School
Sofia, Bulgaria
Peace can be
snuffed out - like a candle.
Together we can
protect Peace from the winds of war.
East Pori Middle
School
Pori, Finland
Stop war-love for
millions of children's smiles Sadness of the dove's bleeding heart.
Lycée de
Beauregard
Montbrison,
France
Peace is a
footprint in the sand,
Peace is the
touch of an aging hand.
St. Mary's
Academy Middle School
Englewood, CO, US
Voices without
sound.
Can you hear what
they are begging for ? ..... Peace
Kerimaen lukio
(Kerimaki High School)
Kerimaki, Finland
Soñar con un
jardín lleno de flores
donde haya paz,
sin guerras ni rencores.
Nueva Escuela
Acuarelas
Concordia, Entre
Ríos, Argentina
World peace be
cool
But people just
want to rule.
Saint James
School
Manchester, CT,
US
From peace we
come and to peace we go,
meanwhile peace
is something we don't know.
Oakdale High
School
Riversdale, South
Africa
Peace is like a
poppy,growing in a field, Peace is like a cut, being stitched and healed.
School-Chemong
Public School
Bridgenorth,
Ontario, Canada
Toys and green
goblins and big yellow ice creams, Not bombs that extinguish our hopes and our
dreams
Jolimont Primary
School
Perth, Australia
La Paz vive en el
alma de los Poetas, en el delírios de los Enfermos , en la confeción de los
Culpados y en el sueño de toda la Gente .
Sociedade
Hebraico Brasileira Renascença Sao Paulo, Brazil
Start a war
within yourself
To live in peace
with everyone else
Escola Mobile
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Demain, à l'aube
d'une nouvelle ère,
D'un monde
serein, espérons être Pères et Mères.
CDI - Lycée
agricole privé
Touscayrats,
France
Peace is the
sound of my mom's heart
when I come in
the door safe at night.
Colbert
Elementary School
Boca Raton, FL,
US
Peace in the
world is peace in your heart.
If we do not have
peace, the world will fall apart.
Dighton Middle
School
Dighton, MA, US
I prefer when the
sun is shining in the sky and birds are flying When all the people in the world
are merry and smiling
Pskov school #4
Pskov, Russian
Federation
Sometimes the
world does not have peace in it but the world will always have peace around it
Deborah Jock
Homeschool, middle
Bethlehem, CT, US
Wherever I go,
peace is with me,
because without
peace there is no me.
Middle School,
"Zdravstveno uciliste"
Zagreb, Croatia
Trabajemos
juntos, trabaje unidos
por la paz
mundial que es el futuro de nuestros niños
Colegio Nuestra
Sra. de la Merced, secondary school San Juan, Puerto Rico, US
Apologize when
you are wrong
It will show that
you are strong
Dinkelmeyer
School
North Bellmore,
NY, US
Don't fight about
your colour.
Love each other
like brothers and sisters.
School of the
Nations
Primary Section
Macau via Hong
Kong, China
Mothers, fathers,
why do you fight
when everybody is
someone's child?
Utsjoen
saamelaislukio
Utsjoki, Finland
May peace be
scattered
Like pebbles in a
dancing pond of rain
Turquoise Trail
Elementary School
Santa Fe, NM, US
And we dream to
make not just a world,
.. but a just
world.
Integrated School
Bacolod City,
Philippines
Cuando tu sonrisa
cultiva el amor
tu espíritu
cosecha la paz
Instituto
Experimental Cantaclaro
Maracaibo,
Venezuela
All races, all
colors, under the sun,
Join hands
together and have some fun.
Jonas Salk
Elementary
Bolingbrook, IL,
USA
Peace is like an
African jungle -
It takes years to
grow and seconds to destroy.
School Parktown
High School For Girls
Parkview, South
Africa
Peace is the soft
beating of a child's heart In the womb of happiness and security
School Parktown
High School For Girls
Parkview, South
Africa
Stop and write
some happy rhymes about the peace we need.
The you can
proceed on your way to hand it over for all to read.
Basic
school,Fabryho
Kosice, Slovakia
Love goes to the
heart, Peace goes to the mind So let's forgive and be Peace Makers all the
time.
Osage Hills
School, primary school
Bartlesville, OK,
US
J'aimerais... que
la paix soit dans tout le monde J'aimerais... qu'il n'y ait pas d'enfants avec
du sang...
Ecole Beausoleil
Primaire
Cesson Sévigné,
France
Compara una bala
y una semilla
Solo de una de
ellas puede brotar la paz
Escuela
"GRAN MALVINA Nº 731"
Chubut, Argentina
Just look with
your eyes of love, not with your heart of hate; And do it today, for tomorrow
will be much too late.
Morrisonville
High School
Morrisonville,
IL, US
War is just pain
and sorrow
World peace is
not worrying about tomorrow
Woodside
Intermediate School, I.S. 125
Queens, NY, US
I hope the Peace
will go global
Then we can say our
world is noble
Osage Hills
School, middle school
Bartlesville, OK
J'imagine un
monde sans racisme, sans sexisme, sans mal, et sans abus.
Je rêve d'un
monde d'arcs-en-ciel et d'harmonie.
The Norwood
School
Bethesda, MD, US
The value of
human life has to tower
above the
preciousness of the biggest diamond.
Hauptschule Weer
Schulgasse, Weer,
Austria
Peace sells
But who's buying?
Escola
Profissional de Comércio Externo Porto, Portugal
Peace is achieved
by all, not one.
But peace begins
with one.
Chaplin School
Chaplin,
Saskatchewan, Canada
Voulez-vous bien
une recette pour la paix?
Noir, blanc,
jaune, et rouge tous mélangés!
Ephesus Road
Elementary School
Chapel Hill, NC,
US
Paz en la vida,
Paz en la tierra
Paz para siempre,
Paz eterna.
I.E.H.B.
Renascença, secondary school
Sao Paulo, Brazil
After the war can
children sleep safely free from worry, unhungry, unharmed?
Or does an evil
lightly linger waiting for time and blood to reemerge?
Saint Martha
School
Okemos, MI, US
No wars, no
fights, no guns
Forever peace!
International
School of Kenya, primary school Nairobi, Kenya
The war is over
and the peace is here
The guns are
destroyed - but this was only a dream
Svartbyns skola
Svartbyn, Sweden
We sing the Peace
song
It is the song of
all children. It is our wish.
Kindergarden
Bernolakova
Kosice, Slovakia
Todas las
personas creando un campo de estrellas Pude ver mi reflejo mirandome
Little Red School
House and Elisabeth Irwin H. S.
New York, NY, US
L'Amour+l'Entendement+l'Egalité-la
Haine-l'Ignorance-la Violence = LA PAIX.
Qui dit que les
maths ne sont pas une langue universelle?
Parkway South
Middle School
Manchester, MO,
US
Peace is sleeping
in your bed at night, wrapped up tight Dreaming in comfort of a golden
tomorrow.
Kauai High &
Intermediate School, intermediate level Lihue, Hawaii, US
Share your love
with people who are different.
Be kind to the
people of the world.
Parkside
Elementary School
Parkside, PA, US
The world should
be a peaceful place,
Without violence,
weapons, or landmines to face.
St. Joseph's
Consolidated Elementary School Nova Scotia, Canada
Si tu quieres que
haya paz en el mundo mira en tu interior porque ahí la encontrarás hasta el
fondo de tu amor.
Centro Educativo
Integral, primary school Quito, Ecuador
Peace is the
saying of I love you worldwide Peace is but a knowledge that you possess
inside.
International
School of Kenya, middle school Nairobi, Kenya
War, the dark
cloud that covers the sun; peace is the ray which breaks through the cloud.
International
School of Kenya, secondary school Nairobi, Kenya
When you see a
beautiful dove,
You will know
that it is a sign of God's love.
Holy Redeemer
Catholic School
Kanata, Ontario,
Canada
Love, harmony,
freedom, and self-esteem, This is what universal peace should mean.
Webb A. Murray
Elementary
Hickory, NC, US
Peace is a world
where fear is no more.
Peace is a boat
that finally reached the shore.
Weldon E. Howitt
Middle School
Farmingdale, NY,
US
To seek the peace
that lies beneath,
Make ammends with
your enemy.
Inter-American
Academy
Guayaquil,
Ecuador
War - The enemy
was murderous and declining and we were too.
Peace - We came
together with the foe and said I forgive you.
Miramar
Elementary School
Miramar, FL, US
War,
revenge,unhappiness, hate lead our world to strife; Love, communication,
trying, and compromise is the better way to lead my life.
St. Gabriel
School
Indianapolis, IN,
US
Peace is
powerful, it will not bend, hopefully peace will never end.
If it does, the
world will shatter, if it does, then nothing else will matter.
Eastern Lebanon
County High School
Myerstown, PA, US
Peace is harmony,
serenity, and a sunset of colliding unity It fills hearts with a serene light
of reconcilliation in a warming sea
Westwood
Junior/Senior High School
Westwood, CA, US
The peace the
world desires is enough to stun, But the men who want it must throw down their
guns!
Pt. Pleasant
Borough High School
Pt. Pleasant, NJ,
US
All the children
- girls and boys - live a life full of joys so we could play hide-and-seek and
none of us would ever peek!
School: Hambrick
Elementary School
Stone Mountain,
GA, US
La paix c'est le
meilleur moyen de communiquer.
Il faut que la
guerre cesse, la Paix c'est gai.
Ecole Jean XXIII
Chartres, France
Happiness-sharing
sunsets with special friends A picture perfect world in harmony.
Nate Perry
Elementary School
Liverpool, NY, US
Paz es la palabra
que los petrificados hombres lograron borrar.
El dia en que la
ganáncia termine, quien sabe esta palabra pueda volver.
I.E.H.B.
Renascença, middle school
Sao Paulo, Brazil
World Peace is
like a single tear,
We help so
little, but it helps a lot.
Hunter Junior
High
West Valley City,
UT, US
Peace is
something you can't see with your eyes.
It lives in
everyone and it is so nice.
Florence
Nightingale
Buenos Aires,
Argentina
Less anger and
hatred bring harmony and happiness.
With a better
world we can begin to trust and feel safe.
Land O'Pines
School
Howell, NJ, US
Generations have
strived to ensure that the world would gain from History's pains; So let Peace
fill the world with love and happiness and free it of grief and sadness.
Rock Creek
Jr./Sr. High School
St. George, KS,
US
Caring and
sharing for each other:
LBE's wish for
peace.
Long Branch
Elementary School
Liverpool, NY, US
When the world
has accomplished peace
Every child of
every nation will wear a smile.
International
School of Amsterdam, middle school Amsterdam, The Netherlands
People should not
be prejudiced.
Everyone is
special in their own way.
Prunedale School
Salinas, CA, US
Desde Concordia,
amiguitos, nuestras manos aquí, menlas y demostremos a los grandes que se puede
vivir en paz.
Escuela Primaria
Provincial No 73
Fablica,
Argentina.
Peace is hope in
your heart.
Peace is faith
and not fear.
Brewster
Elementary School
Rochester Hills,
MI, US
Peace is special,
like us
And in all
creatures, large and small
Pleasant Valley
School
Novato, CA, US
Make Peace, not
war. Peace on earth.
Let all nations
rise!
Lake
Linden-Hubbell School
Lake Linden, MI,
US
Peace isn't
puppies, rainbows and flowers Peace is not hearing guns, Peace is not having to
run
Community School
Middle School
Roanoke, VA, US
You are not
alone; around you, there is peace.
All people in the
world are your friends.
First Middle
School attached to Beijing Normal University Beijing, China
Increase peace;
let it be
whispered into your ears.
Paraisten lukio
Parainen,Finland
One rainbow
people,
working together,
for the good of all.
Pakuranga College
Bucklands Beach,
Auckland, New Zealand
Open your hearts
for the sake of peace
Let's make the
world a better place for all of us
Roots High School
Rawalpindi Cantt,
Pakistan
Peace is working
together,
a preparation for
the future.
Virginia City
High School
Virginia City,
NV, US
Did you know that
on every piece of American money it says "In God We Trust," for in
God, we must trust-without him we surely would perish.
Obsidian Middle
School
Redmond, OR, US
Plus d'essais
nucleaires! Plus d'armes atomiques!
Est-ce si
difficile de faire la paix entre nous?
Le Lycée Français
de Los Angeles
Los Angeles, CA,
US
Our wonderful
world needs more love, cheerfulness, and less war.
We'll have hope
and peace if we love each other and work together.
Hellgate
Elementary
Missoula, MT, US
When ignorance is
replaced by understanding and men's hearts are filled with love, World peace
and tranquility will prevail
Saint Linus
School
Oak Lawn, IL, US
The whole world
needs to make friends,
So that wars and
fighting will end.
Glendal Primary
School
Victoria,
Australia
Harmony,
Friendship, Caring, Sharing.
Joyful, Hopeful,
Quiet, Safe ....PEACE
Early Childhood
Center #61
Buffalo, NY, US
Peace my my
friend is for you and me,
Let's not fight
because we disagree.
Forest High
School
Ocala, FL, US
La paix c'est
fait pour tout le monde
La paix fait des
kilomètres à la ronde
Ecole Sainte
Cécile, primaire
Lambersart,
France
Peace touched the
world with its magic stick And the bloody cry of Bosnia ceased at once.
German Language
High School
Sofia, Bulgaria
Peace is when
cats and dogs play together Peace is when I have friends to play with me
Shelter Island
School
Shelter Island,
NY, US
When my enemy
will be my friend, when our frienship will never end When the army symbol will
be a white dove, there will be peace on Earth.
Gymnazium Turnov,
middle school
Czech Republic
If I could make
peace I would
Peace is nice,
peace is good!
Lake Alma School
Lake Alma,
Saskatchewan, Canada
Release
generosity and respect into a world of strife.
Peace unlocks the
power of life.
Pleasant Green
Elementary
Magna, UT, US
Peace is like a
growing seed
Spreading it is
what we need.
St. Patrick
School
Rodeo, CA, US
Let's hold hands
and love one another
while we make
peace and friendship.
Tri-County
Intermediate School
Howard City, MI,
US
Peace is a dream
of which the human race so longs, We better achieve it fast or soon we'll be
gone.
North East Middle
School
North East, MD,
US
Una brisa suave
mecer el mundo
el deda en que la
paz reine en todas partes.
Instituto Coraz
Buenos Aires,
Argentina
La Paix, que tu
sois Thomas, Rachid, Steven ou Igor, Est le symptôme d'amour qui coule dans tes
veines, entre bien et mal.
Ecole primaire
publique
Chaffois, France
As the wind blows
the shells of peace
The sound of
prosperity is heard by mankind
Ecole secondaire
Sainte-Ursule
Trois-Rivieres,
Quebec, Canada
Peace is fun, war
is boring and the most stupid thing in the world To be together and live in
peace is what all people in the world want
Sedaskolan
Seda, Sweden
Hold all our
hearts in our hands
And let peace
free our lands.
Miranda Junior
High
Miranda, CA, US
Peace is knowing
that your home is safe.
Peace is freedom.
St. Elizabeth
School
Ottawa, Ontario,
Canada
If you want world
peace,
Put your temper on
a leash.
Holly Creek
Elementary School
Broken Bow, OK,
US
Life is a Journey
Live it in Peace
St. Julie
Billiart School
Hamilton, OH, US
Peace starts
within our hearts
And works around
the world.
Nelson Rural
School, middle school
New Brunswick,
Canada
We need more
peace in the many races
We need more love
on people's faces.
Nelson Rural
School, primary school
New Brunswick,
Canada
One day all
beings shall come together in one large embrace, and someday the sun, moom and
sea will play together around the world in harmony.
Hong Kong
International School
Repulse Bay, Hong
Kong, China
People and
countries sharing friendship and love Can build a world where peace is alive
Amapola Primary
School
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Peace is like
yeast,
it helps nations
rise.
Payson Senior
High School
Payson, UT, US
Peace to God
Peace to People
Chapel Hill, NC,
US
Let's make PEACE
shine bright
Let's make PEACE
be our guiding light
Aula 10 Enseñanzas
Ciudad Real,
España
Defeat disharmony
. . .
Celebrate
serenity.
Paul Kane High
School
St. Albert,
Canada
Liberty and
justice, peace and love,
make the strong
sign of the dove.
P.S. 29
Brooklyn, NY, US
Peace is like a
white rose,
world is nothing
without peace.
Yliharman
kirkonkylan ala-aste
Yliharma, Finland
Different skin,
different government, different cultures, different beliefs One planet joined
together, sharing these for global peace.
Baldwin High
school
Pittburgh, PA, US
Peace is just a
fine word, but it can become a reality When we open our hearts to Jesus Christ
who is Prince of Peace forever.
Eco-Peace School
of Ukraine
Kiev, Ukraine
The animals of
the rainforest want some peace, Their populations go down as humans increase!
Jeffersonville-Youngsville
Central School Jeffersonville, NY, US
Peace is when the
world forgives, forgets and smiles.
Peace is when all
nations stand together as one.
Rosie and Rohaana
Kilvington Junior School Victoria, Australia
Peace is
believing in giving, sharing
caring and
respecting life.
Westmoreland
Elementary School
Westmoreland, KS,
US
Forever Friends -
Forever Freedom
Peace will come
Sejergaardsskolen,
primary
Tollose, Denmark
Peace is a
rainbow of color
In a world of
black.
Cedar Ridge
Middle School
Hyde Park, UT, US
Deep within thy
tired, broken heart
Still lies a
shelter for peace.
W. H. Atwell
Fundamental Academy
Dallas, TX, US
Peace is love,
courage, faith and harmony, By getting together we can have friendship,
acceptance and equality.
St Clare of
Assisi Primary School
Conder, Australia
Peace is being
kind and loving one another Peace is the way that we should live with each
other
John T. Harland
Discovery Center
Atlanta, GA, US
Nous, les enfants
des pays en paix, demandons aux ennemis dans les pays en guerre, d'arrêter de
se battre; nous vous invitons à goûter au bonheur et à la joie de vivre
Ecole Elémentaire
J.B. SCHWILGUE 1
Strasbourg,
France
Peace doesn't
come from the head
Peace comes from
the warmth of our hearts
International
School of Geneva
Chambesy,
Switzerland
There's so much
we could say, there's so much we should do, to make a peace all over the world,
create love that's true.
Tenetin koulu
Vuokatti, Finland
A world of
justice - a world of love -
a world of peace:
that's all we need!
Noerrelandsskolen
Holstebro,
Denmark
love is love-the
end
war is the end
Juhola School
Jarvenpaa, Finland
Worldly minds
unite as branches of an olive tree Roots curling deep into every nation
Royal Oak Dondero
High School
Royal Oak, MI, US
Peace is the
sharing of wisdom and kindness.
If we care and
work together, we can make Peace happen.
Ferris Elementary
School
Richmon, BC,
Canada
Peace is having
no pain, crying, tears, or sorrow.
Peace is
important because it causes happiness, sharing, and love.
King Middle Grade
School
Kankakee, IL, US
Peace, is it a
world without war?
Is it a world
without theft, landmines and death? Yes!
Pine Grove Public
School
St. Catharines,
Ontario, Canada
Peace is
realizing equality in everyone.
Easy to
understand but difficult to accomplish.
Troy Middle
School
Shorewood, IL, US
Peace to me is
happiness. Happiness is freedom from deep inside.
Inside freedom
deep, deep inside is glory. What is peace without these emotions?
The Oakridge
School
Arlington, TX, US
Peace is like
running water, starting as a small brook, it soon becomes an ocean, World peace
is like a morning breeze, refreshing the world with every blow.
St. Theresa's
School
Austin, TX, US
Smiling friends
bring happy hearts,
Courageous hearts
fill the air with peace, happiness, and love.
Holy Name Central
Grade School
Escanaba, MI, US
Peace is an
eternal dove,
Just like
ever-lasting love.
Holy Name Central
Grade School
Escanaba, MI, US
Peace lives on
through the clear shallow water, and in the soft blowing air.
Laura Speed Elliott
Middle School
Boonville, MI, US
Peace is love,
not war. No fights, no blood, just love.
Peace is
friendship, and caring and helping each other.
Long Island City,
NY, US
It is like a
spring afternoon, still day but getting late.
Peace is so
great, it makes me wonder how it will ever be made.
Southwest
Elementary
San Antonio, TX,
US
The day of peace
has already passed,
maybe someday we
can make it last.
Our Lady of Mount
Carmel School, middle school New Bedford, MA, US
Peace is as good
as a grain of oats,
war is as bad as
the nose of a wolf.
Myllyojan
ala-aste
Oulu, Finland
Be kind, gentle,
and peaceful
Caring for all
the world's people.
Spring Branch
Elementary School
Houston, TX, US
If there is no peace
there will be no
future
Collegio Alla
Querce
Firenze, Italy
Peace is a chain
reaction beginning with a loving family and exploding into a colorblind world:
A world where all dreams are potential realities.
Coral Shores High
School
Tavernier, FL, US
The world is full
of killing and fire.
And the peace is
all for what people desire.
Emolahden
ala-aste
Pyhäsalmi, Suomi,
Finland
Peace is love,
love is calm
Calm is quiet,
quiet is peace.
Martin Luther
King Middle School
Hayward, CA, US
Peace can cover
the earth yet fit right into your soul, ......discover the peace within you.
East Lyme Middle
School
Niantic, CT, US
For every star in
the sky, there is a dove that will fly.
For every dove
that doesn't fly, there is a nation that will die.
Dowdell Middle
School
Tampa, FL, US
Peace is like a
butterfly, flying on a very thin line, If it faces winds of war, it will fall
and live no more.
Cameron Street
Public School
Collingwood, ON,
Canada
Peace is quiet
and restful,
Happy and joyful.
Morningside
Elementary School
Perry, GA, US
Peace of mind,
peace of spirit
Peace from the
sounds of war.
Stride Avenue
Community School
Burnaby, BC,
Canada
We want a world
where lots of people are talking together.
We want a world
where people are working together.
Banani Primary
School
Lusaka, Zambia
We dream of peace
around the world,
Why can't our
nations be mixed and twirled?
J.O. Kelly Middle
School
Springdale, AR,
US
Peace most often
comes to me in the middle of the city It is tailored in between echoes of good
conversation and the man who thinks he is a movie star.
Franklin High
School
Portland, OR, US
In Osborne, peace
sounds like a quiet song Where we live in harmony all day long
Osborne
Elementary School
Osborne, KS, US
Friendship, our
personal stepping stone to peace, hard to find, easily lost, never forgotten.
HBLA
f.wirschaftliche Berufe
Spittal, Austria
War runs rapid
over the world like a river and the people who believe in peace are the dam. It
will not hold without your help.
Tadmore
Elementary School
Gainesville, GA,
US
A world of
nations in a circle of peace.
In a peace
circle, where we are all equal and united.
Walter H. Crowley
Intermediate School
Elmhurst, NY, US
Lying on your
bed, thinking about being at the beach.
It is yellow and
sunny. Peace!
Kennedy School
Succasuna, NJ, US
Hands for love,
eyes for help,
heart for care
and evil will melt.
Northlands School
Buenos Aires,
Argentina
Peace is the boss
of himself.
Peace would sing
to babies.
Montessori School
of Huntsville-Elementary Huntsville, AL, US
Peace is cool,
peace is rad
Let's just hope
it becomes a worldwide fad.
The Academy for
the Intellectually Gifted Astoria, NY, US
Over every
nation, may the gentle winds of peace blow, Until love in every heart is aglow.
St. Patrick
School
Swift Current,
Saskatchewan, Canada
Peace is when we
all stop hurting, the world stops burning; Peace is when we all live as one.
Signal Hill
School,
Belleville, IL,
US
We can't be at
peace with the world
Until we are at
peace with ourselves.
Louisville Male
High School
Louisville, KY,
US
I help other
people.
I make peace in
the world.
Ängskolan
Överkalix, Sweden
Children, dream
about and create love
for a nicer and
better World!
Basic School,
"Medvedgrad"
Zagreb, Croatia
We want peace in
the world, the peace in play - throwing out war's toys.
School of
Esperanto
Zagreb, Croatia
Peace is love
Just like a
gentle dove.
Bickerdyke
Elementary School
Russell, KS, US
Peace, why can't
I see it happening? Should I give peace when it Does not come back? Will peace
ever be? I may never know.
Saint Edmond's
Academy
Wilmington, DE,
US
The white dove is
watching us from above, Waiting for the world to come together in peace and
love.
Eric S. Smith
Middle School
Ramsey, NJ, US
Peace will
naturally make the love spread, free like an eagle living in harmony.
Abraham Lincoln
Middle School
Lancaster, PA, US
Prosperity,
expectant, angelic, calm, elegance Patience, omni-present, eternal,
magnificent.
The Branch School
Houston, TX, US
World peace
should be something children are born with not something they die for.
Putnam County
High School,
Granville, IL, US
Peace to us means
happiness, no war, no fighting, and no killing.
Peace is really
important for us to live together.
Okimawkamo
Memorial School
Loon Lake,
Saskatchewan, Canada
Peace is
something we should share,
Peace should be
here and there, peace should be everywhere.
Frank G. Lindsey
Elementary School
Montrose, NY, US
Peace is real.
Peace is not a
deal.
Peachland
Elementary School
Newhall, CA, US
The leaders of
tomorrow act, the fools of tomorrow only dream, On a strand of hope we call
peace.
Dwight D.
Eisenhower School, secondary school Freehold, NJ, US
We can make this
world a better place
If we all forget
about race.
Dwight D.
Eisenhower School, middle school Freehold, NJ, US
No bombs, no
bullets, Horray Horray!
No killing no
shooting NO WAR !!! Yah!
River Valley
Middle School
Grand Bay, New
Brunswick, Canada
Put your weapons
on the floor
Or the world will
shut its door
Sawmill Valley
Public School
Mississauga,
Ontario, Canada
Peace makes you
feel good and tingly inside.
You will have
peace if you are a friend.
McMillan
Elementary
Salt Lake City,
UT, US
When the tower of
London strikes war-time, Will the legacy of five letters be enough to set back
the clock?
Colony Middle
School
Palmer, Alaska,
US
Help us piece
together broken hearts,
Then true world
peace may start.
F.L.Smart
Davenport,IA, US
Peace is
friendship
Peace be with
you.
Terry Cook Holy
Rood School
Barnsley, South
Yorkshire, United Kingdom
The wars will we
stop, the guns will we ban, To begin world peace, try for a kinder man.
Clissold Middle
School
Chicago, IL, US
We want to live
in a world without war
where no soldiers
are needed to protect us
Sejergaardsskolen,
middle school
Tollose, Denmark
Together on earth
we build friendship
no weapons but
kindness and peace.
El Colegio Sueco,
primary school
Fuengirola, Spain
So near we are,
so far we see.
Say
"please" to peace!
El Colegio Sueco,
middle school
Fuengirola, Spain
If the world
could hold hands peacefully together and walk willingly away from war,
tolerance and understanding would follow. Individual differences would be
accepted without question.
Meridian Middle
School
Lynden, WA, US
Peace is a
soaring white dove
Bringing an olive
branch to a longing world
Mission Viejo
High School
Mission Viejo,
CA, US
Peace, peace, the
magic word,
The more it is
said, the more it is heard.
Ecole
Internationale de Genève
Chêne, Genève,
Suisse
Humanity falls to
the ground wounded all around, We need to keep peace so we don't destroy the
coming generations.
White Brook
Middle School
Easthampton, MA,
US
World peace
unites us together
Forever and ever.
Ben Milam
Elementary
McAllen, TX, US
Wow, wow, wow,
Peace on Earth!
Let there be
Peace on Earth from the sky to the ground!
Miami Country Day
School
Miami, FL, US
Think about every
child, who must suffer because the countries can't be friends. We want peace
between heaven and earth.
Torsasbyskolan
Vislanda, Sweden
Peace is in every
child, only war and hostility can take it away.
Only love and
faith can secure peace even in the smallest human.
Kallavesi Senior
High School
Kuopio, Finland
Peace is the best
thing we can find in our lives, Keeping us calm so we can compromise.
East Side Middle
School
New York, NY, US
People say they
want to help,
but peace, love,
and harmony need more than words.
Elia Middle
School
North York,
Ontario, Canada
Peace can make
the world seem bright.
Let us shine that
eternal light.
Our Lady of Mount
Carmel School, primary school New Bedford, MA, US
We have a minute
of silence to settle down the violence Let us have some silence; let us have
less violence.
St. Vincent de
Paul School
San Francisco,
CA, US
Peace;
Friendly
relations, as between nations
Deborah Jock
Homeschool, primary
Bethlehem, CT, US
Peace is a candle
we hope will never die or fade from people's minds.
Would you die
fighting for something, if all you have to do was start talking?
Wellwood Middle
School
Fayetteville, NY,
US
We stand watching
as guns and armory are bought and sold, we must start peace now, and stop
putting our futures on hold.
New River Middle
School
Ft. Lauderdale,
FL, US
Snow, rain, war
cause pain: sun, light, peace should reign You and I working together, peace
will be our gain.
Taymouth School
Taymouth, New
brunswick, Canada
Peace to earth
not a word about
war
Nya Varvets skola
Froelunda, Sweden
If we allow a
fellow human to suffer inhumanity, We lack dignity
Education and
Training Academy
Colindale,
London, United Kingdom
It is sad when
there is no peace,
It is mad when we
fight for greed and that and this.
Education and
Training Academy Juniors
Colindale,
London, United Kingdom
A peice of peace
is not enough.
I wish that for
every person who died someone would be born.
Lincoln Options
Elementary
Olympia, WA, US
Peace is like a
bright and beautiful eagle flying away in the midnight sky.
Harmony, quiet,
silence too - why can't you do it too?
St. George's
Elementary School
Montreal, Quebec,
Canada
Oh, my glorious
dove, fly higher under my brothers!
We need your
tranquility.
W. C. Bryant H.S.
Long Island, NY,
US
Let's give a
shout from nation to nation "Destroy the hate before it's too late!"
Sacred Heart
School
Lewistown, PA, US
A peace from you
plus a peace from me,
Equals pieces of
us in harmony
Collingswood
Middle School
Collingswood, NJ,
US
Peace is like
gold, shiney and bright
like a dove
spreading its wings, spilling love
PS 232
Queens, NY, US
Peace is treating
each other equally without war Peace is loving and sharing and being safe for
rich and poor
Ferndale
Elementary School
Ferndale, CA, US
Peace is a
rainbow of people filled with joy, When all the colors of the world mix!
Elementary School
Astoria, NY, US
Peace is not war
or hate, just love,
And it makes God
smile on his throne high above.
Jim Ned Middle
School
Tuscola, TX, US
Peace can be seen
in the smiles on our faces, heard in songs about freedom, shown through
respect, and taught to our youth.
The Seneca School
Ridgewood, NY, US
La paz es la
relación armónica y sabia de todos los seres que conforman una unidad
Colegio de la
Ciudad de México
Ciudad de México,
México
Peace, peace,
peace on the Earth
We want peace NOW
Ulrikaskolan
Ulricahamn,
Sweden
If everyone
speaks out "No war",
Then only peace
will be in the world.
Gymnasia School
#399, primary school
St Petersburg,
Russian Federation
Children like to
live in peace,
People, fight for
peace, please.
Gymnasia School
#399, middle school
St Petersburg,
Russian Federation
God created a
magnificent world for us, So we should create peace on our part
Gymnasia School
#399, secondary school
St Petersburg,
Russian Federation
Why is there war?
Can't you see,
people are dying!
Sallerupskolan
Eslov, Sweden
May peace conquer
the world,
Unfurling the
kindness in our hearts.
International
School of Penang, seconday school Penang, Malaysia
Peace is no war,
no destruction,
Peace is a world
with freedom, harmony and love.
International
School of Penang, primary school Penang, Malaysia
Peace is like the
morning dew settling on the leaves A sparkling light from up above, a tender
voice of Mother breeze.
North Queens
Rural High School, primary Nova Scotia, Canada
Peace is quiet.
Peace is still. Peace can be broken - but my peace remains still, my peace
remains quiet.
North Queens
Rural High School, middle school Nova Scotia, Canada
After the night
of our conflicts and prejudices are over The day will dawn when we will truly
know peace.
North Queens
Rural High School, secondary school Nova Scotia, Canada
Peace is like a
flower, it seems every hour The petals are falling apart, so let's make a new
start!
MillerSouth
School
Akron, OH, US
Let all the
people live with peace and harmony in a state of tranquility, freedom, and
determination.
St. Matthew's
Parish School
Pacific
Palisades, CA, US
Lose the guns;
don't fight because the light won't be bright.
.Ai que ser
amigos i no enemigos.
Backman
Elementary
Salt Lake City,
UT, US
Sing a song of
peace tonight.
And pray to end
the bitter fight.
Boys & Girls
Club, primary level
Decatur, GA, US
If peace were a
virus,
I wish everyone
would be infected.
Boys & Girls
Club, middle school level
Decatur, GA, US
People of the
world unite.
Sit down and talk
before you fight
Boys & Girls
Club, secondary school level Decatur, GA, US
Think a little
and search your mind,
desire of love,
peace, you'll find.
Liperin ya
koulutie
Liperi, Finland
Peace is our
rivers flowing
Peace is the
sunlight glowing
Community School,
primary
Burnaby, BC,
Canada
Peace is love in
its deepest form,
A feeling of
safety and serenity.
Valley View
Elementary School
Bountiful, UT, US
You live a
beautiful life, and you're really happy about it.
And then your
kids have a happy life.
Franklin School
Succasunna, NJ,
US
War is very bad,
peace is a hit, think about it just a little Don't fight, no matter if you're
black or white
Mankkaan koulu
Espoo, Finland
If we close our
eyes, and our hearts then friendship and love will decrease.
Instead unite and
hold hands to go forward with world peace.
Lincoln Roosevelt
School
Succasunna, NJ,
US
Peace flowing
like a river, watering the whole earth La paix dans nos coeurs, créé la paix
sur la terre
Horace Greeley
Intermediate School
Long Island City,
NY, US
World peace is what
the earth could use We have to decide, we have to choose.
Cory Middle
Advanced Technology Center
Gadsden, AL, US
Jesus is the
Peacemaker between God and the spirit of man.
Where God rules,
peace rules. On earth we must do what we can.
Parkland Lutheran
School
Tacoma, WA, US
People's
arguments about racism, freedom and rights Need agreements on peace to solve
the world's fights.
Carrum Primary
School
Carrum, Victoria,
Australia
La paz mundial es
el sueño que todos queremos realizar, es la esperanza que todos guardamos
cuando se aprende a amar
Colegio Nuestra
Sra. de la Merced, middle school San Juan, Puerto Rico, US
Peace is great
for some people.
Peace is love for
a lot of people.
Felton Elementary
School
Lennox, CA, US
If you are black
or white does not matter.
Let the world
move in major not in minor.
Rosenholmsskolan
Forserum, Sweden
I wonder if we
will ever stop wars and accept each other as human beings.
Peace is for
everyone, no matter what race, religion, or culture.
Allen Elementary
School
Ann Arbor, MI, US
All kids want
peace.
Respect one
another and continue having a good life.
Dalaskolan LM
Bromölla, Sweden
Peace is the way
the world should be
All living things
in harmony
Davisville Middle
School
North Kingstown,
RI, US
Be kind to each
other, don't fight.
Peace on earth is
always right.
Bergaskolan
Uppsala, Sweden
Peace is what
everybody needs. Let's live without war and enjoy what we have. Make peace, not
war, with love.
Klaukkalan
yläaste
Klaukkala,
Finland
No one should
fight, all should be friends So that everyone can have their mother and father
Åkerskolan åk
Överkalix,
Finland
World peace
unites us together
Forever and ever.
Ben Milam
Elementary
McAllen, TX, US
Peace is love and
happiness. Peace is joy and intelligence.
These two words
bring out your elegance.
Takoma Park
Middle School
Rockville, MD, US
Love, peace,
happiness, and harmony.
All the things
that this world needs to survive.
Lakeside Middle
School
Pompton Lakes,
NJ,US
War is like a
nightingale trapped in its cage fighting to get out.
Open the cage and
let peace fly throughout the world.
Joseph Pulitzer
Intermediate School
Jackson Heights,
NY, US
Peace is
sometimes so tangible that you feel you could wrap yourself up in it.
Peace can be
found in one's family, one's friends, one's community.
Moss Landing
Middle School
Watsonville, CA,
US
Paz es amar y
respetar
Y ella rodea y me
abraza.
John Spry
Community School
US
Los niños
queremos la paz de los pueblos, la paz es mi anhelo, QUE VIVA LA PAZ!
Lic. Alfredo
Bonfil
Mexico, Mexico
Ver a un niño
sonriendo en esta tierra
y sentir el amor
entre hermanos es la paz.
Ignacio Zaragoza,
Nivel Primaria
Mexico, Mexico
Procuremos la paz
entre las nacionaciones y juntos trabajemos para vivir mejor
Escuela:
"Juan José Martinez"
Mexico, Mexico
Si en todo el
mundo no hubieran guerras y todos nos respetaramos nuestro mundo sería mejor
viviríamos en armonía y paz.
Escuela
"Afganistán"
Mexico, Mexico
La paz es una
sonrisa, la paz es la mirada de dios.
Escuela
Vespertina Simón Bolivar
Mexico, Mexico
Aceptando nuestra
realidad podremos vivir en paz.
Colegio Simón
Bolivar
Mexico, Mexico
La Paz es una
cálida y armoniosa melodía en cuyas notas vibran lo mejor de nosotros mismos y
de los demás.
Esc. Sec.
Yucatán, Mexico
La paz es una
esperanza que viene de los niños es amor, union, venida del corazon.
Colégio Kerigma
Fortaleza, Brazil
Peace grows like
a tree,
and can spread
like a forest from you to me.
Lakeview
Elementary
Trophy Club, TX,
US
La paz es un
suspiro hecho por la tierra con nuestros pensamientos buenos Es una nube de
colores, es aprender a respetar, a ser justo y solidario
Centro Educativo
Patzcuaro
Mexico, Mexico
Smiling friends
bring happy hearts,
Courageous hearts
fill the air with peace, happiness, and love.
Holy Name Central
Grade School
Escanaba, MI, US
Peace is a word
in every language, in the hearts, hopes,and minds of all.
Peace is
something we all aspire to, whether big or small.
West Middle
School
Ypsilanti, MI, US
If we had peace
there would be no war
war and destruction
would be no more
Schlesinger
homeschool, primary level
Providence, RI,
US
If there was
peace could we really fly?
up above the
clouds and all else?
Schlesinger's
homeschool, middle school level Providence, RI, US
A Peaceful word
spoken
reaches out in
sound and silence.
Wilson Middle
School
Albuquerque, NM,
US
If somebody is
black? If somebody is white?
It's just a
matter of color, all right?
Öregrundsskolan
Sweden
Through the years
we heard their cries
But without peace
someone else always dies
Middle School
Las Vegas, NV, US
Dentro de mi
corazón hay paz y harmonia Y desejo a todos que entram em sintonia
I.E.H.B.
Renascença, primary school
Brazil
La Paz es linda,
es deslumbrante, es exuberante!
La Paz es llena
de esperanza, nunca abandone La Paz
Brasileira
Renascença
Sao Paulo, Brazil
The world was
made for you and me
We wish that
peace always will be
Fredrika
Bremerskolan
Uppsala, Sweden
Viens petite
colombe, et va dans les mains de tous les enfants du monde, Pour qu'ils
puissent sentir en toi la Paix de l'humanité
Ecole primaire
Mont-Bleu
Hull, Québec,
Canada
Peace is Quiet
Peace is nice and
you can do what you want to do.
Nixon School
Landing, NJ, US
Roses are
red,violets are blue
Diana created
peace why can't you?
Oakdale
Agricultural School, middle school level Riversdale, South Africa
La paix est une
chose fragile.
Tu dois la
traiter avec soin.
Suffern High
School
Suffern, NY, US
Peace is
something deep within us,
Waiting to come
out and make a better world for all of us.
Weber Elementary
School
Iowa City, IA, US
Peace on earth is
like groovy tie-dyed shirts or tranquil baby birds on a bright spring morning.
Cleveland Middle
School
Cleveland, OK, US
Peace is where we
get along
Peace is where we
sing a song
Northgate School
Seattle, WA, US
Peace means when
people are dead they're in heaven.
I am only seven.
Corona, N.Y.
Upset and want to
fight and shout?
Don't! Talk it
out!!
Wiscasset Primary
School
Wiscasset, ME, US
Few people like
evil, few people like war if there were more peace, more good would soar.
Haddonfield
Friends School
Haddonfield, NJ,
US
We don't need
strife between the nations Be at peace, have good relations
Hudson Falls
Middle School
Hudson Falls, NY,
US
Peace is the boss
of himself.
Peace would sing
to babies.
The Montessori
School of Huntsville - Elementary Huntsville, AL, US
As she soars
through the hate, all wrong leaves her wing It's amazing how much peace a small
dove can bring.
International
School of Kuala Lumpur
Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia
Nuestras almas de
niños juntamos
para pedir paz a
todos los humanos.
Esc. Primaria
"Abraham Castellanos"
Vicente Guerrero
Xalapa, México
A common desire
for harmony and unity, brotherhood, freedom, respect.
No Wars.
Forest Elementary
School
Ridgewood, NY, US
Peace, the
undying word of the soul.
Peace, a word
that brings togetherness in a world full of chaos.
I.S. Queens
Long Island City,
NY, US
La paz debe estar
siempre con nosotros, en las malas y las buenas En paz somos iguales
Kermit McKenzie
Jr. High School
Guadalupe, CA, US
It all begins
with one spark to brighten another's heart.
Together we can
light the world with love, peace and harmony.
Spurgeon
Intermediate School
Santa Ana, CA, US
Peace finds folks
showing love, caring and sharing.
Peace is when
people are safe.
Clinton Kelly
Elementary School
Portland, OR, US
Stop the grief,
stop the hate,
Live in peace,
before it's too late.
Lincoln
Elementary School
Hammond, IN, US
Caring about
helping each other out
makes love and
joy flood out.
Jonas Salk
Elementary
US
God loves
everyone and we should too
Then all of our
friends will be true blue
Our Lady of Mount
Carmel School, primary school Baltimore, MD, US
Peace is what we
wish for day and night For some unknown reason we all fight
Our Lady of Mount
Carmel School, middle school Baltimore, MD, US
When we exist
with each other as one soul The harmony we share makes us whole
Our Lady of Mount
Carmel School, secondary school Baltimore, MD, US
Peace is a calm,
quiet, happy feeling
an attitude of
never hurry and never worry.
Ashley Park
School
Swift Current,
SK, Canada
Value the spirit
of all human beings,
Grow respect and
you will grow peace.
P.S. 70 Queen
Long Island City,
NY, US
Is there a day to
all children?
Yes, it's the FN
day. It helps us.
Lansjärvs skola
Lansjärva, Sweden
Hand in hand,
heart by heart.
Together we can
do our part.
Fairview Middle
School
Swift Current,
Saskatchewan, Canada
Lo esencial para
vivir en paz es no discriminar a los demás, porque así es como se producen las
guerras y se altera la Paz Mundial.
Colegio San Jorge
Norte
Buenos Aires,
Argentina
If all the world
would join hand in hand, Peace and love would spread across the land.
Meadow Oaks
Junior High School
Calabasas, CA, US
Peace is a word
we need to use a lot
But the sad thing
is.....we are NOT!!
City School
Grand Blanc, MI,
US
The Earth is a
garden filled with flowers.
Why let it be
destroyed by weeds?
Lakeside Middle
School
Pompton Lakes,
NJ, US
Peace is the
world
And the world is
you
Elmdale
Elementary
Springdale, AK,
US
The Peace that is
longed for by all mankind Lives within each of us, but is so hard to find.
Leroy High School
Leroy, AL, US
Peace is what we
need
To keep this
world alive.
Providence
Montessori School
Lexington, KY, US
If I could teach
the world, there would be joy and peace, And no reason for police.
Our Lady of
Perpetual Help School, middle school level Daly City, CA, US
Peace, love, and
justice come in harmony, But most of all, from you and me.
Our Lady of
Perpetual Help School, primary level Daly City, CA, US
Children together
can make PEACE forever.
In all weather,
that's clever.
Sverkerskolan
Uppsala, Sweden
Our wish for the
world is to unite in harmony and peace, And that all hatred, wars, and
terrorism would then cease.
Sheri Beezer
Homeschool
Lancaster, PA, US
Peace is a path
to friendship
Friendship is a
path to love
Bay Head
Elementary School
Bay Head, NJ, US
La paix est comme
une fleuve, toujours changeante, silence dans une soirée calme et fraîche, la
pureté de vie qui reste dans chacun
Hillsboro High
School
Hillsboro, OH, US
Treat others with
respect, kindness, and love, please Recycle, plant flowers and beautiful trees
South Street
School
Manorville, NY,
US
If I could invent
just one creation
I'd make a
peaceful world wide nation.
Henry R. Clissold
Elementary School
Chicago, IL, US
La Paix du coeur
n'a pas de prix :
Déclarez-la dans
tous les pays!
Ecole Mixte La
Corchade
Metz, France
La guerre ne sert
á rien.
Fais la paix, ce
sera bien.
École Notre-Dame
Primaire
Montréal, Quebec,
Canada
In the land of
peace
you will live in
happiness and Peace
SOS-Hermann
Gmeiner International College, primary school Tema, Ghana
Peace is
tranquillity within
Deep in my soul
shall peace prevail
SOS-Hermann
Gmeiner International College, middle school Tema, Ghana
Peace we will
make - not easy like a cake Making weapons was a big mistake
Eriksdalsskolan,
Stockholm, Sweden
We are
peacemakers
We are
warbreakers
Thunmanskolan
Knivsta, Sweden
Igual que las
flores en primavera la paz florece dentro de ti, deja un espacio dentro de ti
para que la paz habite en el.
Centro Educativo
Integral, middle school Quito, Ecuador
Si tú tienes paz,
vivirás más.
Sitú tienes fe en
la paz, llegarás a ser más.
Florida Day
School- Junior School
Florida, US
La Paix, nous en
avons tous besoin.
Ca serait bien
qu'elle soit partout sur la Terre et dans l'UNIVERS
Ecole Primaire
Jean Moulin
Saint Chinian,
France
The peace is out
there, we just have to find it...
Love me, love
them who don't love you!
Mieslahti,
Finland
People are talking
friendly to each other and peace is in the whole world.
Everybody is
lucky. Everybody is happy.
Kämmenniemen
ala-aste
Finland
Peace is a
butterfly resting on a thorn of the world, a child of innocence born into
violence and war; a perpetual hope for equality, cooperation, and a world
dancing in colorful flavors.
Kauai High &
Intermediate School, secondary level Lihue, Hawaii, US
With peace we can
make a better world
'cause if we do
not have peace, we will not have a world.
Vejstrup
Ungdomsskole
Denmark
War is black,
peace is white
Let's make the
world more than bright.
Gymnazium Turnov,
secondary school
Czech Republic
Si tu veux finir
la guerre et rétablir la paix, Il faut pardonner son ami d'abord.
Klaukkalan koulu
Finland
All we need is
love and peace
Basic school,
Hroncova
Kosice, Slovakia
If a man loved
all the people
he would have the
whole world in his heart
Basic
school,Komenskeho
Bardejov,
Slovakia
Peace is a
present we must save
When we forget,
future humanity will die
Basic
school,Uzhorodska
Kosice, Slovakia
The most
beautiful word
Let peace be in
the world.
Basic
school,Krosnianska
Kosice, Slovakia
All people are
responsible for protecting our nature, sand life on the planet Earth.
Basic
school,Belehradska
Kosice, Slovakia
We, children from
Slovakia, want to have happy and satisfied childhoods and we wish Peace and
Love to children all over the world.
Basic
school,Ul.cs.armady
Presov, Slovakia
Peace doesn't
need any words
just good hearts.
Basic
school,Masarykova
Kosice, Slovakia
Let's keep the
words May peace prevail on Earth close to our hearts.
Basic
school,Kosicska Bela
Slovakia
Peace is like a
flower
we must take care
of it every day.
Grammar
school,A.H.Skultetyho
Velky Krtis,
Slovakia
La mirada del
dolor en los niños,
la pena del
corazón en el mundo.
Colegio San Luis
Gonzaga
Buenos Aires,
Argentina
Quien ama la Paz
sentira la Libertad al Soñar y volara con las alas de la esperanza y el amor.
Esucela Bilingue
"Benito Juarez"
Mexico
Soy la que tu y
todos esperan, soy la tardía ilusión de un mundo que se destruye por falta de
Amor y de mi, soy... La Paz.
Escuela "Dr.
Alfonso Pruneda"
Mexico
LA PAIX, c'est
rester toujours amis, ne pas se taper et toujours faire la paix quand on se
dispute.
Ecole maternelle
J.B. SCHWILGUE
Strasbourg,
France
Friends are
peace, enemies are war
Global people
don't have to worry anymore
Clarkson Community
High School
Clarkson, WA, US
The searched
peace, you can achieve
When in your
brother, you believe.
Colégio Joana D'
Arc
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Peace is love,
love to the next
give love to our
friends.
Escola Paulista,
primary level
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Peace is a soul's
puification, is a God's hug is priceless.
Escola Paulista,
secondary level
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Erase the hate!
Loving and caring, playing and sharing, That's peace, man.
P.S. 7, The
Kingsbridge School
Bronx, NY, US
We must not use
weapons but fight with out words There shouldn't be war but our voices should
be heard
P.S. 55, Richmond
Hills
Queens, NY, US
Peace: A world
without fear,
Where talking
solves our problems
United Nations
International School, primary school New York, NY, US
If you are
broken-hearted under this sky, I will share my peace with you.
International
School of Amsterdam, secondary school Amsterdam, The Netherlands
If there were
peace around the world
you would hear
the sounds of joy and laughter from children
Sulzberger Middle
School
Philadelphia, PA,
US
Yet here we all
are arguing with each other Not knowing that she is your sister and he is your
brother.
The Benjamin
School
North Palm Beach,
FL, US
Peace is families
staying together.
It is not arguing
or fighting.
Kingsbury School
Valier, MT, US
A place of love,a
place of sharing,a place of uniting, But most of all a place of peace.Our
world.
Presentation
College
Victoria,
Australia
Harmonic unity,
the serenity of
love.
Academic Magnet
School, middle school level North Charleston, SC, US
Peace is a word
that brings harmony
to the fragile
heart of a child.
Academic Magnet
School, secondary school level North Charleston, SC, US
From coast to
coast and sea to sea
In times of peace
what friends are we.
Bayshore Catholic
School
Nepean, Ontario,
Canada
Tranquility,
harmony, hospitality, rapport Let peace soar high above the clouds
St. John's Episcopal
School
Abilene, TX, US
The world should
be like loving sister and brother, Working together, and not against one
another.
Smethport Area
Elementary School
Smethport, PA, US
A slight breeze
flowing through the hot summer air -- When you are hot and tired, a breeze may
pass you there.
Wickford
Elementary School
North Kingstown,
RI, US
Peace should flow
around the world.
Love should flow
and hatred should go.
Infant Jesus
Primary School
Perth, Australia
dark violent changes
break hearts and bones tranquil love breathes harmony, making the whole world
grow peacefully
Port Lincoln
Special School
Port Lincoln,
Australia
A world without
Peace brings hatred and violence.
Yet Peace without
boundaries can bring understanding, hope, and tolerance.
Liberty Jr. High
School
Dallas, TX, US
Take a stand
keep peace in
every land.
Delmar Elementary
School
Delmar, MD, US
In order for
people to have joy and mirth, they have to accomplish peace on earth.
Winston Churchill
School
Fairfield, NJ, US
Don't use bombs.
Negotiate!
Romulus Central
School
Romulus, NY, US
Let peace take
over the world.
Let peace walk on
Earth one step at a time.
Richard Henry Lee
Elementary School
Los Alamitos, CA,
US
Peace is the
Opposite of Violence
Violence is
Something that Should Not Be
The Rugby School
at Woodfield, secondary school level Wall, NJ, US
People laughing,
smiling, talking, sharing, caring, and helping one another, That is what we think
of when someone says "peace".
Sacred Heart
Parish School
Red Bluff, CA, US
Boundaries of
cultural hate and war, shall be around us no more.
Forever we shall
be, together living in harmony.
Iraan Elementary
School
Iraan, TX, US
We must learn to
give and take
Practice love,
forget the hate.
Sally Mauro
Elementary
Helper, UT, US
Peace - a way of
life,
a conversation in
harmony.
Sageland
Elementary MicroSociety School El Paso, TX, US
Open the doors of
the world
so that peace be
welcome to our lives.
Escola Nova
Lourenzo Castanho, elementary school Sao Paulo, Brazil
Universal peace
begins
with peace
between you and me.
Escola Nova
Lourenzo Castanho, middle school level Sao Paulo, Brazil
Cuando se habla de
Paz enseguida pensamos en el fin de las guerras pero nunca paramos para pensar
Como es importante la paz social, la Paz de la Conciencia Colectiva.
Escola Nova
Lourenzo Castanho, secondary school level Sao Paulo, Brazil
Peace comes from
the heart
And grows with
shared kindness
Fort Jones
Elementary School
Fort Jones, CA,
US
We need peace
between people and animals too, We also need peace with me and with you.
Wickford
Elementary School
North Kingstown,
RI, US
I am El Paso in
the Chihuahua dessert.
I live in Peace,
I am free.
Pebble Hills
Elementary
El Paso, TX, US
Ne pas se
détester,se respecter,ne pas voler, beaucoup s'aimer, Ensemble jouer,voilá la
paix...
Ecole Elémentaire
Fortan, France
War is bad
Peace is good
Aakjärskolen
Skive, Denmark
Let's have peace
for one whole day,
Helping the world
in every way!
P.S. 279
Brooklyn, NY, US
Float, our dream
of peace like a springtime breeze To various nations over lands and seas.
Krasnoyarsk Regional
Cosmonautic School Zelenogorsk, Russian Federation
Peace is working
with people,
not against
people.
Wodonga Primary
School
Victoria,
Australia
Si ahora las
flores pueden crecer en Auschwitz Entonces la paz puede vivir en el hombre.
Saint Mary High
School
Paducah, KY, US
Why must we
brawl? Why must innocent people fall?
Hostility must
cease in order to have world peace.
Conrad Weiser
Sr/Jr High
Robesonia, PA, US
Peace helps
people around the world, peace is as delightful as a chocolate swirl.
We must try to
prevent war, then love will be like a candy store.
Jan Celliers
Primary School
Johannesburg,
South Africa
When we win our
struggle for peace,
Violence, crime
and hate will cease.
Dake School
Rochester, NY, US
Peace is cool
So use it in
school
Saint Mary Middle
School
Paducah, KY, US
La paix est notre
grande maison,
Elle est ouverte
pour chaque personne.
School#72,
primary school
Novokuznetsk,
Russian Federation
La Paix! c'est la
partie de la vie
L'arc-en-ciel et
jaune soleil
School#72, middle
school
Novokuznetsk,
Russian Federation
L'humanité défend
la paix;
Et à la barre
sera une amitié!
School#72,
secondary school
Novokuznetsk,
Russian Federation
Viens petite
colombe, et va dans les mains de tous les enfants du monde, Pour qu'ils
puissent sentir en toi la Paix de l'humanité
Ecole primaire
Mont-Bleu
Hull, Québec,
Canada
Peace is a
friend, Peace is the world.
Give it a chance
and it will be yours.
Ellendale
Elementary School
Bartlett, TN, US
Il faut grandir
et fleurir
Pour que l'amour
soit pour toujours.
Ecole
Gabrielle-Roy, elementaire
Ottawa, Ontario,
Canada
God created
us-not for violence and not for war But for friendship, unity, sharing, love
and peace.
Ecole
Gabrielle-Roy, intermediaire
Ottawa, Ontario,
Canada
Do you want to
shut the door on harmony and happiness?
Then you really
want to mess with me and everybody else.
Sandvik school
Bjornlunda,
Sweden
Make love, not
war; that's whas friends are for.
Throw away all
the guns, and make peace at once.
Satravik School
Nykvarn, Sweden
Why is there war?
Why are they dead?
Why is there a
cry? Someone tell me why?
Mimerschool
Alvsjo, Sweden
Peace is gentle,
peace is kind.
That's how I see
it in my mind.
Holy Family
Middle School
Grand Junction,
CO, US
Peace begins in
each man's heart
We must all do
our part.
Holy Family
School, elementary level
Grand Junction,
CO, US
Blooming gardens,
grass and dew and a cloudless sky!
Rising sun,
playing children, and a happy smile!
School #33,
elementary level
Grodno, Belarus
Peace is
friendship, peace is freedom, good relations, understanding.
It's defending
all the nations. It's uniting all the people.
School # 14,
secondary level
Grodno, Belarus
Harmony,
happiness, freedom, and health Compromise, caring, respect for everyone else.
Oswayo Valley
Elementary School
Shinglehouse, PA,
US
Let Peace be like
a flowing river
Flowing into the
open hearts of humanity.
Banani
International Secondary School
Lusaka, Zambia
Paz es tener amor
en el mundo.
Be respectful and
love each other.
Jefferson
Elementary School
Lennox, CA, US
War is a very
dreadful thing in Summer, Winter, Autumn and Spring When flowers grow and
rainbows glisten I think and hope for peace
Coromandel Valley
Primary School
Coromandel
Valley, Australia
Children glowing
with rainbow laughter, singing songs around a campfire happy & free even if
you are out of tune. Peace always needs makers.
Superior
Elementary School
Superior, CO, US
A world of
trouble, trying to end
Like a world of
happiness, wanting to begin.
Hot Springs
Middle School
Hot Springs, AK,
US
Peace is not
about judging someone by the the color of his or her skin or the difference of
their religion. It's about the content of their soul.
Coleman
Elementary School
Glen Rock, NJ, US
Peace is
something that should be treasured, Because it has great value to everyone and
everything.
Warrensburg
Elementary School
Warrensburg, NY,
US
The day has come,
a truce is made.
The sign of war
is beginning to fade.
Newington College
Stanmore,
Australia
Every minute,
every hour,
We have to change
- we have the power.
Toorak College
Victoria,
Australia
page 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 All Index
Copyright (c) 1997 United Nations
Publications globalschoolbus@un.org
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Blues by
Stefano Benni (fragment)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34CA1172.125A@eunet.yu>
References:
<199801231922.LAA10453@netcom10.netcom.com>
Blues in sedici; Ballata della citta' dolente
by Stefano Benni 1998
Per quali prodigi e qual disegno
un
albero cresca ramo dopo ramo
prendendosi il cielo, non so
ne' so perche' i miei occhi di bambino
guardino ora dal volto di un vecchio.
(...)
---
i translate:
by what wonder and design
a tree grows up branch after branch
creeping in the sky, i dont know
neither what for my children's eyes
are now looking at from an old face.
saluti,
Rinaldo.
-------To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: sliced#1
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34D30C74.793A@iclub.org>
References:
<9369267.34d294ac@aol.com> <34D2FCEA.4C87@midusa.net>
Jeffrey Scott
Holland writes:
>blah blah,
which means nothing to me. I'll call Edna St.Vincent Millay a
>Beat if it
behooves me. And I love to be behooved.
I do but ask that
you be always fair by EDNA ST. VINCENT
MILLAY
What lips my lips
have kissed, and where, and why, I have forgotten, and what arms have lain
under my head till morning;...
I cannot say what
loves have come and gone, I only known that summer sang in me
a little while,
that in me sings no more.
---
saluti,
rinaldo.
---
Per quali prodigi e qual disegno
un albero cresca ramo dopo ramo
prendendosi il cielo, non so,
ne' so perche' i miei occhi di bambino
guardino ora dal volto di un vecchio.
---(blues in sedici) by Stefano Benni.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: charles
buk quotations
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Charles Bukowski
Quotations
The Poet's Craft:
Interviews From The New York Quarterly. Edited by William Packard. New York:
Paragon House, 1987.
Q: "What do
you think a young poet starting out today needs to learn the most?"
Charles Bukowski:
"He should realize that if he writes something and it bores him it's going
to bore many other people also. There is nothing wrong with a poetry that is
entertaining and easy to understand. Genius could be the ability to say a
profound thing in a simple way. He should stay the hell out of writing classes
and find out what's happening around the corner. And bad luck for the young
poet would be a rich father, an early marriage, an early success or the ability
to do anything well" (PC 321).
Ohter favorite
Buk Quotes:
"Writing a
poem is like taking a hot beer shit."
"People ask
why I write so much about piss and shit and so little about love.
I tell them you
can go for seventy years or longer without having sex, but try going one week
without a bowel movement."
(paraphrased, but
you get the idea)
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Carlos
Santana Hall of Fame
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
THE EAGLES TALK
FUTURE; CARLOS SANTANA TALKS WOODSTOCK 2000 AT ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
CEREMONY
"Thanks for indicting me," said a
tongue-tied Glen Frey at the 13th Annual Rock and Rock Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony,
held at New York's historic Waldorf Astoria on Monday (Jan. 12) night.
It was a decidedly mellow affair. Inductees
Fleetwood Mac, the Eagles, the Mamas and the Papas, and Santana represented the
California wing of rock that came to define the music in the '60s and '70s. The
roots of rock and roll were equally celebrated with the inductions of New
Orleans luminaries Lloyd Price, Allen Toussaint, and Jelly Roll Morton. '50s
rockabilly legend Gene Vincent rounded out the evening's indictments... er,
inductions. There are now a total of 153 inductees in the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame.
Each of the California acts performed songs
that helped pave their way into the Hall of Fame. Santana opened the show with
"Black Magic Woman." Former Fleetwood Mac lovebirds Stevie Nicks and
Lindsey Buckingham reunited on two acoustic duets ("Landslide" and
"Big Love") before the entire band came together for "Say You
Love Me." The Mama and the Papas, minus Mama Cass, who died in 1974 (her
daughter Owen was in attendance), sent a chill through the crowd with their
1966 classic, "California Dreamin'," performed live by the group for
the first time in nearly three decades. The Eagles closed the proceedings with
their first hit "Take It Easy" and their epic "Hotel California."
Unlike previous years, a jam session with all the winners spilling out onto the
stage never materialized.
Cancer sufferer Dusty Springfield received a
tribute from Nona Hendryx, who sang "Son of a Preacher Man," and
Lloyd Price raised the low-energy level a notch with an explosive rendition of
"Stagger Lee."
Leave it to the serious Eagle to give the
evening some perspective. In his acceptance speech, Don Henley took the concept
of a Hall of Fame to task.
"They should
call it the Hall of Accomplishment," he commented.
"Accomplishment
is a vicious cycle. Fame is a by-product of accomplishment, and fame always
comes with a price. When a kid first picks up a guitar or a drumstick it's not
really to be famous, it's because that kid wants to fit in somewhere, wants to
be accepted. So I'd like to think this award is acknowledging us not for being
famous, but for doing the work."
In the press room, Frey did his best to
explain what it's like to be an Eagle. "We often joked that the Eagles are
really a thousand- pound gorilla that wakes up every morning and drags us
around. The Eagles is a big thing, it's a big commitment, it sort of has its
own personality. It does what it wants to. Literally, all of us hold on for
dear life."
Will the Eagles be getting together again any
time soon? "We have a lot of work to do probably away from the Eagles
right now," Frey explained. "This is a good time for us to give it a
rest. Unlike before, however, we leave the doors open to possible future collaborations.
Right now, life is very complicated. We've got a lot of things going on --
families, solo careers, some other projects. For this year, I'm not sure. But
like I said, unlike the past, we leave the doors open."
Futures plans for Carlos Santana include a
new custom label deal with Arista Records (thanks to his former boss, Clive
Davis), and yet another Woodstock anniversary concert, which he pronounced will
take place in Brazil in 2000. He called the original Woodstock in 1969 and the
25th anniversary concert in 1994 "dress rehearsals" for the third
one. "It's not going to be called Woodstock," he said. "It's
going to be called For a Better World. It's going to be more inclusive. The
third one [produced once again by Michael Lang] is going to be all about the new
millenium."
Santana also called for more Latin artists to
be inducted into the Hall of Fame. "Ritchie Valens, Ray Barretto, Joe
Cuba, Tito Puente, and on and on," he said. "They all belong in here.
Eventually I'd like to see the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame open its perimeters
and invite Leonard Bernstein and Miles Davis in here, because West Side Story
is rock and roll."
The 13th Induction Ceremony may have lacked
the pizzazz and personality of previous years, but it was still an evening for
the ages.
-Steve Bloom
___________________________________________________
all contents are
the copyright ) 1996, 1997,1998 of N2K Inc.
any derivative
works of this content must hyperlink to and credit: "Rocktropolis allstar
News at http://allstarmag.com">
Send comments,
inquiries, hot scoops and slow wet kisses to contact@allstarmag.com.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: bob
dylan international conference
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
HE'S A CLEAN-CUT
KID & HE'S BEEN TO COLLEGE TOO
On Saturday,
January 17, from 9am-5pm (PST), Bob Dylan will be the subject of The 1998
International Conference at Stanford University
(http://shc.stanford.edu/shc/1997-1998/events/bobdylan.html) in the Kresge
Auditorium. Here's Stanford's
"Conference Description":
Bob Dylan is one
of the most important--and most enigmatic--popular artists of the twentieth
century. For over thirty years, his work has deeply influenced contemporary
culture and society and he has become an international cultural icon and a
talismanic figure for several generations. Among his numerous awards, he has
received an honorary degree from Princeton University and the Commandeur des
Artes et des Lettres, the highest cultural award that France presents to
foreigners. In 1997, he was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Literature.
The complex
nature of Bob Dylan's art (music, lyrics, poetry, live performance, film,
recorded sound) makes fruitful academic engagement within traditional
disciplinary limits difficult.
This conference,
however, will approach Dylan's work in a new way: By including scholars from
various disciplines (music, literary studies, religious studies, and drama), we
will be able to explore the multifaceted nature of his art and his cultural
legacy in an interdisciplinary context.
Topics will
include:
Bob Dylan: Not
Dark Yet
Too Much Educated
Rap? Bob Dylan and Academia Only a Pawn in Their Game: Bob Dylan and Politics
The Sound of One Dog Barking: Bob Dylan and Religious Experience A Long Way
from Hibbing: Bob Dylan's Black Masque The Visionary Road: Rimbaud, Kerouac,
Dylan Renaldo & Allen: Allen Ginsberg's Role in 'Renaldo & Clara'
Performed Literature: The Music of Bob Dylan Seeing the Real You at Last: Bob Dylan
and His Audience In the Studio: The Recording Styles and Techniques of Bob
Dylan
Tickets are $14
for non-Stanford students. For
reservations & directions, contact the Stanford Ticket Office at (650)
723-4317 or (650) 725-ARTS; FAX: (650) 723-8231 or
email:
dylan-conference@lists.stanford.edu
dailydish@columbiarecords.com
DailyDish on the
Web : http://www.dailydish.com Columbia Records Online:
http://www.columbiarecords.com To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: IN
SOMNIA QUARTET by Marie Countryman
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
IN SOMNIA QUARTET
I
PART ONE:
DAY FOUR: In
Somnia
In Somnia
is the place i
inhabit
each autumn up
here in north country.
In Somnia,
time changes:
clocks run backwards
as
fast as ahead
and collide,
like two perfectly balanced arrows
two exquisitely aimed arrows
meeting in mid flight -
time
collapses.
I've tried
doctors pills,
herbal remedies,
warm milk!
relaxation, meditation
chants!
(and furtive readings from the 'self
help'
corner of local bookstore )
no sleep
anguish
until, 96 hours into
black night slowly
inching
toward dawn,
i look out my window
and
see the first snow
of autumn.
I watch the snow fall
and muse upon my
hepatitis C,
a life line
without guarantee-
a reminder of mortality.
I
would like to think
the gods are smiling on me,
giving me more time
to store up against an early death:
so charged am i,
electrified,
vowels-
consonants-
metaphors-
VOICES
ring in my head,
and I spend time with poets
who would rather
stay dead:
Woolfe, Sexton, Plath
(I've often wondered if I'd follow your
path),
or
Dylan Thomas
or Jack Kerouac,
one can drown in water, or in wine,
nothing sublime about that.
is it an affliction,
these extra hours,
dark, quiet, soft snow falling
or gift?
(these extra hours
dark, quiet, soft snow falling)
I wonder and wander
in the dark,
quiet, snow falling
hours as the horizon point is touched by
flame
I'm still awake
when daybreak changes snow to rain
snow washed away
in to the rain
I'm still awake
I'm still awake
I'm still awake
~~~~~~~~~~~~
II
FLASHBACK: 1993
(Imploding
marriage)
lately I just keep waking
lately I just keep waking alone
in the black of night
I breathe shallow I wear earphones
not to wake you.
3 am, 4 am,
mind
wanders and stumbles,
stuck in the valley of consciousness,
black timelessness,
where there is no tomorrow.
i tire of endless
stifled silence,
i choose instead
to merge with the blackness-
listen to the fire blazing in my ears
and
break free!
passion bursts in my ears!
and turning,
turn up the volume on the
sobbing
stereo
wailing!
I make my choice
light the candle
shed my
clothes
and let my hips find their own rhythm-
scarf in hand,
flung!
swirls, settles
on lamp
as i dance,
shadow-cast.
In the midst of a hurricane,
a halcyon dance.
Go away if it bothers you, in fact
please go away.
It's the blackness you see
the blackness and me
everybody nobody knows about me
nobody everybody
knows about me
the song
the vigil
the darkness in
me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
III
DAY FIVE: DANCE
In camp light,
all others ringed round the fire asleep,
I steal the ceiling of stars, sleepless,
cold, and needing a blanket for comfort,
I sit and bend
towards the flames
until
firelight warmth
is blown away
by
great gust of cold, then icy fire:
he appears
my wolf,
angst,
anima,
lover--
as the firelight
turns to music-
sweat raises to shoulders-
and muscles obey!
running electric alive currents!
we embrace
and dance
in firey icy
dervishness:
my
adversary
brother
lover
killer
life giver,
we dance...
IV
NIGHT SEVEN: IN DREAMLESS NIGHTS
In dreams, I remember flying
-the freedom
-the altitude
-my shadow cast on the hill scapes-
feathers delineated in shadow shapes
wingspread wide and proud.
I no longer dream of flying,
I no longer dream at all.
(I hail from the country of In Somnia
I'm only here to gather some ingredients:
bane of darkness
wort of light
bones of a robin)
Laid awake for so many of my days the return to the land of sleep
and the company
of sleepers
seems an
impossibility
so
i choose to live
in my palace
created by
madness
and peopled by
imagination-
who is to say
whose reality is which?
still,
i pray for my
dream weaver
where I lie,
invisible to the
naked I
still and quiet
in the darkest night of all,
until I see you
approach,
dream weaver,
I see
you pick up this paper,
blessed by tears
and torn
by desperation,
I see you pick it up,
it feels good,
oh yes it does,
so soft,
so pliable,
feel me,
i am in your pocket
i'm here;
you awaken....
(c) marie countryman
oct. 24-30, 1997
revised 11/11/97
revised sometime
in jan. 98
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Cathie
Wilkie, my meeting with marie
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:31:59 -0600
Reply-To: cawilkie@comic.net
Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Cathy Wilkie
<cawilkie@COMIC.NET> Subject:
my meeting with marie
X-To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hey all,
i'm so sorry i've
taken so long to report on how the meeting in chicago went with our own fair
marie countryman went.
got home from
chicago just last night, took me awhile to wade through the three days worth of
mail.
so here's how it
went:
let's put it this
way; she wanted to be 'poured on' the
train, so that's exactly what we did.
i was about a
half hour late, but she was not hard to locate at all. i recognized her backpack first. she had told me to look for one like it. She was very very relieved to see me. when you think about it, that would be
understandable--hoping that the person you've been talking to over the computer
for the last few months actuaally makes it there.
We got her a
hamburger,many many icehouse beers (TWice the alchohol as regular beers, mind
you) ANd just sat down and talked ,
discussed, starting one thought even before we finished the one we were on. i kept having to say 'oh yeah, in reference
to that which we were talking about just five minutes ago'. i started so many conversations with her, and
three hours was not enough to finish them all.
there was not an awkward moment at all, no silence. just a creative burst of the meeting of
minds.
she showed me
some of her journal, the section she had been writing about searching for me as
i was running late. i signed her journal
for her, wrote a few scentences. she
showed me the beads she had gotten in california. i gave her a mix tape that i had dubbed off
for her, and a tape of timbuk 3's "FIELd guide"
she also got to
meet a couple of friends of mine, jess and tim.
she took all of our pictures.
she also showed
me some drawings she had done. they were
very haunting, very beautiful.
we had a great
talk, and just as i predicted, three hours was definitely not enough. her train was
a little late pulling in, so we got a few extra minutes. i have a most wonderful black and white
portrait that i took of her crouching against a wall there in the
terminal. as soon as i can get to a
scanner, i will post it. she dosen't
look bad for having drank many beers in a very short period of time.
i left her at the gate, she by this time had
made friends with a couple college girls with big backpacks. i gave one last holler to her, and gave her
the peace sign right before i rounded the corner out of sight.
i walked out of
there grinning from ear to ear because it had worked out so very well.
i just wanted to
let you all know that it went wonderfully, beautifully, had a lot of fun. it was very strange to meet someone in this
manner, talking for two months on the net first then meeting face to face. but like marie said we would--we knew each
other right away.
cathy
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
PSYCHO-BUREAUCRATIC RANT (2)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
PSYCHO-BUREAUCRATIC
RANT by marie countryman
RANT against the
psycho-bureaucrats
who see only bottom lines
and never the people on the bottom!
RANT against
those who
measure out years
not by coffee
spoons
but tears
by insurance
schemes
for
counting beans!
and the
gov'ment which ignores
ALL
who stand in
abject self-affacement!
RANT againt those
who can't or will NOT see the hidden
disabilities
burned into the pysches
of adult suvivors of childhood hells!
RANT against the
cycle of pain,
the
inevitable,
unspeakable
reenactment
of abuse through
generations!
(ignored by the
neighbors
who do not want to "meddle")
RANT against the
fathers!
RANT against the
mothers!
- the priests - the nuns
the teachers - the doctors
-the nurses - school counselors
shrinks and therapists--
ALL with the
power to heal and protect but
choose instead the monkey dance
of see no evil
hear no evil
to deny it does exist!
RANT against
mothers who collude with fathers, stepdads and "uncles"!!
RANT against tv
talk show hosts
the evangelists!
the pope!
the cops!
the courts!
the good ole boy networks!
RANT AGAINST THE
CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE
RANT RANT RANT
RANT
AND
RANT!!!
i am RANTING and i will not stop!
i refuse my fate
to be one of
INVISBILITY!
NO SELF DESTRUCTION
, NO
SELF EFFACEMENT
FOR ME!
I WILL NOT SHUT
UP, EVER!
I ASK ONLY
when will the
'good citizens'
drop the curtains from their eyes
and RECOGNIZE
that monsters DO
exist right next door
(if not behind
their own?)
8/26/97
revised 9/29/97
and sometime in
jan 98
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: America
by AG
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
America (by Allen
Ginsberg)
.
.
America I've
given you all and now I'm nothing.
America two
dollars and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956.
I can't stand my
own mind.
America when will
we end the human war?
Go fuck yourself
with your atom bomb
I don't feel good
don't bother me.
I won't write my
poem till I'm in my right mind.
America when will
you be angelic?
When will you
take off your clothes?
When will you
look at yourself through the grave?
When will you be
worthy of your million Trotskyites?
America why are
your libraries full of tears?
America when will
you send your eggs to India?
I'm sick of your
insane demands.
When can I go
into the supermarket and buy what I need with my good looks?
America after all
it is you and I who are perfect not the next world.
Your machinery is
too much for me.
You made me want
to be a saint.
There must be
some other way to settle this argument.
Burroughs is in
Tangiers I don't think he'll come back it's sinister.
Are you being
sinister or is this some form of practical joke?
I'm trying to
come to the point.
I refuse to give
up my obsession.
America stop
pushing I know what I'm doing.
America the plum
blossoms are falling.
I haven't read
the newspapers for months, everyday somebody goes on trial for murder.
America I feel
sentimental about the Wobblies.
America I used to
be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry.
I smoke marijuana
every chance I get.
I sit in my house
for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet.
When I go to
Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid.
My mind is made
up there's going to be trouble.
You should have
seen me reading Marx.
My psychoanalyst
thinks I'm perfectly right.
I won't say the
Lord's Prayer.
I have mystical
visions and cosmic vibrations.
America I still
haven't told you what you did to Uncle Max after he came over from Russia.
.
I'm addressing
you.
Are you going to
let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine?
I'm obsessed by
Time Magazine.
I read it every
week.
Its cover stares
at me every time I slink past the corner candystore.
I read it in the
basement of the Berkeley Public Library.
It's always
telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. Movie producers are
serious. Everybody's serious but me.
It occurs to me
that I am America.
I am talking to
myself again.
.
Asia is rising
against me.
I haven't got a
chinaman's chance.
I'd better
consider my national resources.
My national
resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of genitals an
unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles and hour and
twentyfivethousand mental institutions.
I say nothing
about my prisons nor the millions of underpriviliged who live in my flowerpots
under the light of five hundred suns.
I have abolished
the whorehouses of France, Tangiers is the next to go.
My ambition is to
be President despite the fact that I'm a Catholic.
.
America how can I
write a holy litany in your silly mood?
I will continue
like Henry Ford my strophes are as individual as his automobiles more so
they're all different sexes America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500
down on your old strophe America free Tom Mooney
America save the
Spanish Loyalists
America Sacco
& Vanzetti must not die
America I am the
Scottsboro boys.
America when I
was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings they sold us garbanzos a
handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the speeches were free everybody
was angelic and sentimental about the workers it was all so sincere you have no
idea what a good thing the party was in 1935 Scott Nearing was a grand old man
a real mensch Mother Bloor made me cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody
must have been a spy.
America you
don're really want to go to war.
America it's them
bad Russians.
Them Russians
them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
The Russia wants
to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to take our cars from out
our garages.
Her wants to grab
Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. her wants our auto plants in Siberia.
Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations.
That no good.
Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers.
Hah. Her make us
all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
America this is
quite serious.
America this is
the impression I get from looking in the television set.
America is this
correct?
I'd better get right
down to the job.
It's true I don't
want to joint the Army or turn lathes in precision parts factories, I'm
nearsighted and psychopathic anyway.
America I'm
putting my queer shoulder to the wheel.
.
Allen Ginsberg
To: David Bruce
Rhaesa <race@midusa.net>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
[Fwd: [Fwd: Quote of the Week]]
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<34DF2094.7EB4@midusa.net>
References:
david writes:
>what's a
jihad anyway?
>
>what did one
marine say to the other about time in the gulf?
>it's a gas,
gas, gas!
rinaldo replies:
I BEATNIKS SONO
SPORCHI? LA BOMBA ATOMICA E' PULITA?
| Nazim Hikmet
Camarades, s'il ne m'est pas donne' de vivre
ce jour-la'
Si, en somme, j'allais mourir avant que notre
jour arrive
Portez-moi en Anatolie.
Enterrez-moi dans un cimitiere de village
Et, si possible, un platane su-dessus de moi
suffit
Je me passerai bien de pierre et d'epitaphe.
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: HST cita
gli anni 60
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Hunter S.
Thompson said, "the spirit of the 60s was really dead by
1967"Return-Path: <owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> X-Sender:
mbergxx@pop.iquest.net (Unverified) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:27:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> From:
Micah Maidenberg <mbergxx@IQUEST.NET> Subject: beat videos
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Hi all.
A couple days ago
I was leafing through a catalogue of videos to be used in high school English
classes - Shakespeare plays, video biographies, interpretations of lit, etc . .
. anyway, three videos caught my eye:
Towers Open Fire - William Burroughs
"The cinematic equivalent of
Burrough's writing style . . . fast paced, high- tech and refreshingly frank."
Fried Shoes, Cooked Diamonds - Allen
Ginsberg
"Learn about the 'Beat Poets' . .
. bearded, rebellious, brilliant and wildly
literary!"
Jack - A Video Biography
"Interviews, readings from his
works, and commentary. Gain an
appreciation for the Beat
Generation."
Anyone viewed?
Micah
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: aggiungi
un beat
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Harlan EllisonTo:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: italiano
su cassady
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Home · My Deja News!
Quick Search ·
Power Search · Interest Finder · Browse Groups · Post Message IBM Netfinity Servers...power AND scalability
• Online Resources
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click Here
Article 30 of exactly 367 Text Only Help
Previous
Article
Next
Article
Current
Results
View
Thread
Author
Profile
Post
New
Subject: February 1968
From: "Mauro Vettori"
<vettori@ipsnet.it> Date:
1998/02/07
Message-ID: <01bd319d$3cee0420$LocalHost@default>
Newsgroups: alt.books.beatgeneration
[Unsubscribe to
alt.books.beatgeneration] [More Headers]
Thirty years
I was not
in the womb
of my poor mother...
No other things
I could say...
Before I'll die
I would like
to see my life
with Cassady
eyes...
In memory of the
death of Neal Cassady, 1968
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click Here
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previous | Next
| Results | View
Thread |
Author Profile | Send Email
| Post New | Post
Reply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright (c) 1995-98 Deja News, Inc. All rights reserved.
Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1988 07:08:46 -0600
Reply-To: jgardner@doane.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> From:
Jodie R Gardner <JGardner@DOANE.EDU> Organization: Doane College
Subject: Existentialism...
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Does anyone know
anything about existentialism and it's importance in the Beat movement and
culture? If so, please explain and help
me out here. Thanks!
*jodie*
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: LANGUAGE
IS A VIRUS (Laurie Anderson)
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19980127184547.006a78a4@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
References:
<3.0.5.16.19980127161757.09d71cf6@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>
<Pine.ULT.3.96.980127000706.5456B-100000@cwis.unomaha.edu>
LANGUAGE IS A
VIRUS vocals:Laurie Anderson
Paradise
Is exactly like
Where you are
right now
Only much much
Better.
I saw this guy on
the train
And he seemed to
have gotten stuck
In one of those
abstract trances.
And he was going:
"Ugh...Ugh...Ugh..."
And Fred said:
"I think he's
in some kind of pain.
I think it's a
pain cry."
And I said:
"Pain cry?
Then language is
a virus."
Language! It's a
virus!
Language! It's a
virus!
Well I was
talking to a friend
And I was saying:
I wanted you.
And I was looking
for you.
but I couldn't
find you. I couldn't find you.
And he said: Hey!
Are you talking
to me?
Or are you just
practicing
For one of those
performances of yours?
Huh?
Language! It's a
virus!
Language! It's a
virus!
He said: I had to
write that letter to your mother.
And I had to tell
the judge that it was you.
And I had to sell
the car and go to Florida.
Because that's
just my way of saying It's a charm.
That I love you.
And I It's a job.
Had to call you
at the crack of down
Why?
And list the
times that I've been wrong.
Cause that's just
my way of saying
That I'm sorry.
It's
a job.
Language! It's a
virus!
Language! It's a
virus!
Paradise
Is exactly like
Where you are
right now
Only much
much It's a shipwreck,
Better. It's a
job.
You know? I don't
believe there's such
a thing as TV. I
mean --
They just keep
showing you
The same pictures
over and over.
And when they
talk they just make sounds That more or less synch up
With their lips.
That's what I
think!
Language! It's a
virus!
Language! It's a
virus!
Language! It's a
virus!
Well I dreamed
there was an island
That rose up from
the sea
And everybody on
the island
Was somebody from
TV.
And there was a
beautiful view
But nobody could
see.
Cause everybody
on the island
Was saying: Look
at me! Look at me!
Look at me! Look at me!
Because they all
lived on an island
That rose up from
the sea
And everybody on
the island
Was somebody from
the TV.
And there was a
beutiful view
But nobody could
see.
Cause everybody
on the island
Was saying: Look
at me! Look at me!
Look at me! Why?
Paradise is
exactly like
Where you are
right now
Only much much
better.
"LANGUAGE IS A
VIRUS
FROM OUTER
SPACE."
-- William S.
Burroughs
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Nero
poetry
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Subject: Nero.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
my black
spaniel
Nero,
my dog
is unplugged
my dog
goes
by the vet
my dog
Nero
isnt' stupid!
my dog
watched
the telly
my dog
was a pet
when ceausescu
was killed
in xmas day
my dog Nero
isnt' stupid!
my dog
now is
near a bunch
of trash,
car plate,
or in kennel
my dog
killed
one hundred
hens
& when
the wind
is blowing
on the right
i hear his
unplugged
soul
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: jp sarte
on literature
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
"For the poet, language is a
structure of the external world. The speaker [writer of prose-gss] is IN A
SITUATION in language; he is invested with words. They are prolongations of his
meanings, his pincers, his antennae, his eyeglasses. He maneuvers them from
within; he feels them as if they were his body; he is surrounded by a verbal
body which he is hardly aware of and which extends his action upon the world.
The poet is outside of language. He sees words inside out as if he did not
share the human condition, and as if he were first meeting the word as a
barrier as he comes toward men.
Instead of first
knowing things by their name, it seems that first he has a silent contact with
them, since, turning toward that other species of thing which for him is the
word, touching them, testing them, palping them, he discovers in them a slight
luminosity of their own and particular affinities with the earth, the sky, the
water, and all created things."
"Not knowing how to use them as a
SIGN of an aspect of the world, he sees . . ."
from "WHAT
IS LITERATURE?" AND OTHER ESSAYS by Jean-Paul Sartre
trans. by Bernard
Frechtman
(New York:
Philosophical Library, Inc., 1949) (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1988,
paperback)(p. 30) To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: For
Karla Faye Tucker, among others
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:56:46 -0500
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: MagenDror@AOL.COM
Subject: For Karla Faye Tucker, among others
I'm sending this
at 6:57 EST (5:57 CST) because in the recent days, this poem kept going through
my mind, especially the line about "any man's [person's] death . . .
speaking to the whole issue of capital punishment as I think it does.
L.
FOR WHOM THE BELL
TOLLS
No man is an
Iland,
intire of it
selfe,
everyman is a
peece of the Continent,
a part of the
maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if
a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne
were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore
never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee...
John Donne (1571-1631)
=====================================================================
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: mc faye
tucker
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:19:33 +0000
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET> Subject:
Re: For Karla Faye Tucker, among others MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
luther: thanks for this post. i have been watching much ofthe coverage and
was struck by her often joyous expressions while praying, and the cold cold
eyes of bush jr and clan, and the ignorant at the gate celebration as in public
hangings, ghouls. john donne had been on my mind, in thread on another list,
read this, but didin't make the connection.
mc
MagenDror@AOL.COM
wrote:
> I'm sending
this at 6:57 EST (5:57 CST) because in the recent days, this poem
> kept going
through my mind, especially the line about "any man's [person's]
> death . . .
speaking to the whole issue of capital punishment as I think it
> does.
>
> L.
>
> FOR WHOM THE
BELL TOLLS
>
> No man is an
Iland,
> intire of it
selfe,
> everyman is
a peece of the Continent,
> a part of
the maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea,
> Europe is
the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a
> Mannor of
thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes
> me, because
I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to
> know for
whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee...
>
> John Donne (1571-1631)
=====================================================================
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: in
spanish
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
in Spanish
---> Do not let us fall into temptation
(not lead us)
Save us from the Evil One
(not from
evil)--------see _James_
Give us this day the bread of
tomorrow
(not our daily
bread)
"The easiest way to get riches is to
help the poor."
Pope Pius XII, 1953, admonishment to
missionaries to --->
-- treat pagan religions with circumspection
double meaning of Catholic
power of conscience
-- More, Thomas
-- Dante
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: wonna
dance? by mc
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:09:29 +0000
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: wanna dance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
"i eat too
much
i drink too much
i want too much
toooo much"
dave mathews on
the cd
dancing to my
cats,
want to dance
with alley cats
whose up?
who wants to
dance?
let's get
together,
spoken word,
music dance our pants off
(even if you hate
dave, he's the best to dance to , except jerry) i want to dance with stray cats
alley cats
dance
soul flies out
into the cosmos for that brief amoount of time, souls meet, dance, dozey do,
return, twirl, come down crashing
and up again
dance,
i want to dance
yeaaahhhhhh
mc
=====================================================================To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: gardner
ascii art bycicle
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
James A. Gardner
The solid book we wrote *
>* __o Cannot be found today *
>* __\<,_
*
>* (_)/ (_) http://www.rahul.net/jag/ *
=====================================================================To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject:
valentine's day by carol leonard
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:56:26 -0800
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Organization: Inner Sword Board
Subject: Valentine's Day History
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
St. Valentine's
Day History starts in 400 BC, Rome
Heart shaped
boxes filled with chocolates, decorative cards, and red roses, all symbols of
what we think of as Valentine's Day. The original Valentine's Day, however, was
anything but candy and roses.
As early as the
fourth century B.C., the Romans engaged in an annual young man's rite to
passage to the god Lupercus. The names of the teenage women were placed in a
box and drawn at random by adolescent men; thus, a man was assigned a woman
companion for the duration of the year, after which another lottery was staged.
Determined to put an end to this eight-hundred-year-old practice, the early
church fathers sought a "lovers" saint to replace the deity Lupercus.
They found a likely candidate in Valentine, a bishop who had been martyred some
two hundred years earlier.
In Rome in A.D.
270, Valentine had enraged the mad emperor Claudius II, who had issued an edict
forbidding marriage. Claudius felt that married men made poor soldiers, because
they would not want to leave their families for battle. The empire needed
soldiers, so Claudius abolished marriage.
Valentine, bishop
of Interamna, invited young couples to come to him in secret, where he joined
them in the sacrament of matrimony.
Claudius learned
of this "friend of lovers," and had the bishop brought to the palace.
The emperor, impressed with the young priest's dignity and conviction,
attempted to convert him to the roman gods, to save him from certain execution.
Valentine refused to renounce Christianity and boldly attempted to convert the
emperor. On February 24, 270, Valentine was executed.
History also
claims that while Valentine was in prison awaiting his fate, he fell in love
with the blind daughter of the jailer, Asterius.
Through his faith
he miraculously restored her sight. He then signed a farewell message to her
"From Your Valentine," a phrase that would live long after its
author.
Valentine would
later become a Patron Saint, and spiritual overseerer of an annual festival.
The festival involved young Romans offering women they admired, and wished to
court, handwritten greetings of affection on February 14. The greeting cards
acquired St.Valentine's name.
As Christianity
spread, so did the Valentine's Day card. The earliest card was sent in 1415 by
Charles, duke of Orleans, to his wife while he was a prisoner in the Tower of
London. The card is now preserved in the British Museum.
In the sixteenth
century, cards proliferated and became more decorative. Cupid, the naked cherub
armed with arrows dipped in love potion, became a popular valentine image. He
was associated with the holiday because in Roman mythology he is the son of
Venus, goddess of love and beauty.
By the
seventeenth century, handmade cards were oversized and elaborate, while
store-bought ones were smaller and costly. In 1797, a British publisher issued
"The Young Man's Valentine Writer," which contained scores of
suggested sentimental verses for the young lover unable to compose his own. Printers
had already begun producing a limited number of cards with verses and sketches,
called "mechanical valentines." A reduction in postal rates in the
next century ushered in the less personal but easier practice of mailing
valentines. That, in turn, made it possible for the first time to exchange
cards anonymously.
The first
American publisher of valentines was printer and artist Esther Howland. Her
elaborate lace cards of the 1870s cost from five to ten dollars, with some
selling for as much as thirty-five dollars.
Since that time,
the valentine card business has flourished.
By Carol Leonard
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: un
mucchio di indirizzi di david
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Zarefsky
<d-zarefsky@nwu.edu>,
"zambezi@falcon.cc.ukans.edu"
<zambezi@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
ZAC
<zachery_anderson@hotmail.com>, wizard <FDBBC@CUNYVM.EDU>,
William E Newnam
<wnewnam@emory.edu>,
WILD_BILL <Bill.Henderson@uni.edu>,
wichitastate
<jarman@elliott.es.twsu.edu>,
WEISWOMEN
<weisk@helpnt.org>,
Virgil Balthrop
<vwb@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>,
imaa@midusa.net,
"urinal<grin>publisher" <Hrayl@saljournal.com>,
TrunkJayhawk
<Steve.Thompson@usd305.com>,
"tjardes, sue"
<tjardes@ups.edu>, Thin <jeffrt@wichita.infi.net>,
TATE <tate@wonderlink.net>,
JTalley4n6@aol.com,
Susan_Stanfield <SUEBELL@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>,
sunrise
<sunrise.parti@pcusa.org>,
steveMgriffin
<sgriffin@law.tulane.edu>,
"stauffer@pacbell.net"
<stauffer@pacbell.net>,
starwars
<Brian_Stucky@ers.com>, star <smuir@OSF1.GMU.EDU>,
slypork <dscunningham@nwu.edu>,
sigel <doug@gyro.net>,
Sherri
<love_singing@msn.com>,
smartin@mailbox.acusd.edu,
seward23 <seward23@aol.com>,
seed2 <sksdallas@aol.com>,
seed <ksjsks@midusa.net>,
Scott Segal
<SEGASH+aPO1%Bracewell_&_Patterson@mcimail.com>,
SCOTT HARRIS
<sharris@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>,
Scott Deatherage
<lsd041@nwu.edu>,
Sam and Beth Stevens
<sbstevens@mcione.com>,
"s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@calvin.usc.edu>,
"RStineman@aol.com"
<RStineman@aol.com>,
roDger
<rapayn01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>,
ROC <kai@informatics.net>,
robert_lay <rlay@onramp.net>,
Robert Wick <rwick@cov.com>,
racy@primenet.com, reynaldo
<rgarcia@tacc.org>,
reicherT
<ReicherT@nasd.com>,
"rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu" <rchurch@frank.mtsu.edu>,
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>,
"RandyStace@aol.com"
<RandyStace@aol.com>,
Randy Lake
<rlake@almaak.usc.edu>,
"R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@scsn.net>,
"ptrax@midusa.net"
<ptrax@midusa.net>,
principal
<dmcbeth@midusa.net>,
presbynorthKS
<pby_northern_kansas.parti@pcusa.org>,
phares@falcon.cc.ukans.edu,
pelliott@sunflower.com, OSTROM
<janice.ostrom@usd305.com>,
ochsowner
<no-more-songs-approval@cs.pdx.edu>,
NELSONj <john_nelson@uiowa.edu>,
neckermank
<neckermn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
Nathan Coco
<ncoco@mwe.com>, myweb <mrsparty@hotmail.com>,
mignoli
<docmignoli@aol.com>,
"Meyer, Linda Prof."
<lmeyer@quinnipiac.edu>,
Meredith Garmon
<garmon.sm@juno.com>,
melanie
<melanie_crawford.parti@pcusa.org>,
meany <JKM1993@aol.com>,
Mark Hassman <hassman@midkan.com>,
marie <country@sover.net>,
louise_brokaw <PBY_EAST_IOWA@pcusa.org>,
"louden, allan"
<louden@wfu.edu>,
"lingel, dan"
<dlingel@why.net>,
Linda Powell
<Linda_Powell@BROWN.EDU>,
LexingtonHS
<L_Phillips@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us>,
"lewenthompson@midkan.com"
<lewenthompson@midkan.com>,
brooklyn@netcom.com, Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>,
lechtreck
<db8coach@lightspeed.net>, Lassie <dkpenn@oees.com>,
BLain@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu,
kudebate <KUDEBATE-L@ukans.edu>,
kstate <joburtis@ksu.edu>,
Koch_Steve <skoch@capital.edu>,
kneckerman
<poroi@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
kevin kuswa
<k.kuswa@mail.utexas.edu>,
"Kent A. Ono"
<kaono@ucdavis.edu>,
"Kenneth M. Strange"
<Kenneth.M.Strange@Dartmouth.EDU>,
Kenneth DeLaughder
<Kenneth.DeLaughder@enmu.edu>,
k_broda_bahm
<kbrodabahm@towson.edu>,
Joshua Hoe
<ifjxh@hotmail.com>,
john sloop
<sloopjm@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>,
John Fritch
<john_fritch@hotmail.com>,
jd.rollins@mail.utexas.edu, jo
grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>,
"jb&mlarn@midkan.com" <jb&mlarn@midkan.com>,
Jamey Dumas <dumas@GONZAGA.EDU>,
"hingstman, david"
<dbhingst@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
HARMON <debate@midusa.net>,
Greg Schnippel
<schngre@harpo.cns.iit.edu>,
Gordon Mitchell
<gordonm+@PITT.EDU>,
gordo2 <jgordon@oz.sunflower.org>,
Gibson
<rgibson@prairienet.org>,
Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@earthlink.net>,
g_lane
<laneg@william.jewell.edu>,
FtHaysdebate
<Joeb@media-net.net>,
FISHBONES
<sakana69@hotmail.com>,
"Eric L. Krug"
<elkrug@kcnet.com>,
emporiastate
<BILESROD@esumail.emporia.edu>,
emporiahigh
<mwoodbur@value-line.net>,
"EliCunning@aol.com"
<EliCunning@aol.com>,
Edward Schiappa
<schia001@gold.tc.umn.edu>,
edebatemail
<edebate@list.uvm.edu>,
Ed Panetta
<EPANETTA@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>,
Echrist
<ELChristensen@SNOPUD.com>,
dukeofOPERA
<WTeller692@aol.com>,
DRTUNA@aol.com, "Dr. Roald Tweet x7467"
<ENTWEET@Augustana.edu>,
donnaV
<vineyard@midusa.net>,
DireStraits
<kthomp@rocketmail.com>,
"dilley, benita"
<bdilley@castle.cudenver.edu>,
"Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>,
Diane Carter
<dcarter@together.net>,
designatedhitter
<STRICKLG@esumail.emporia.edu>,
DCardKJHS
<DCardKJHS@aol.com>,
"david.glass@regpha.com" <david.glass@regpha.com>,
David Mark Cheshier
<joudmc@PANTHER.GSU.EDU>,
"CVEditions@aol.com"
<CVEditions@aol.com>,
culver <nculver@fwenc.com>,
CousinJohnRhaesa <HPDJRACE@aol.com>,
cousinBetty <walegge@midusa.net>,
Cori Dauber
<cdauber@EMAIL.UNC.EDU>,
coffeebreak
<reichart@att.com>, Clune <a871@fhsu.edu>,
cindy <RevCynthia@aol.com>,
charlesSmith <cmsmith126@aol.com>,
CELTICPRIDE
<William.F.Russell@Dartmouth.EDU>,
CEDARRAPIDS
<cawilkie@comic.net>,
carrie_crenshaw
<ccrenshaw@ua1vm.ua.edu>,
carlin
<prentice@falcoln.cc.ukans.edu>,
burke-L <Burke-L@siu.edu>,
Bruce Gronbeck <gronbeck@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
BrentT
<Bthomp4444@aol.com>, Bob Stone <bstone@terraworld.net>,
Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>,
bilchriswestphoenix
<chriswest@dancris.com>,
begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>,
Becky Galentine
<theloft@ACCESSONE.COM>, BEAR <MWBRYANT@aol.com>,
racee@primary.net, baker
<SMDebate@aol.com>,
AVERY <donam@asu.edu>,
auntdonna <dgh@MCI2000.com>,
attias <hfspc002@email.csun.edu>,
arthur nusbaum <SSASN@aol.com>,
APPLE <edappel@epix.net>,
Antoine Maloney <stratis@odyssee.net>,
Al Girtz
<agirtz@yahoo.com>,
"Achten, Greg"
<gachten@PEPPERDINE.EDU>,
ABILENE <dperkins@fas.harvard.edu>
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: paul
morissey lyric
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:28:17 -0800
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: Billy Budd (by Morrissey)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Billy Budd (Morrissey)
.
.
Say, Billy Budd
so you think you
should?
everyone's laughing
say, Billy Budd
so you think that
you should?
everyone's laughing!
since I took up
with you
Things have been bad
yeah, but now
it's 12 years on
now it's 12 years on
yes, I took up
with you
I took my job
application
into town
did you hear?
they turned me down
yes, and it's all because of us
and what was in our eyes
and what was in our eyes
Say, Billy Budd
I would happily
lose both of my legs
it it meant you
could be free
it it meant you
could be free
.
.
Morrissey, 1994
from the Sire
Records album "Vauxhall and I" To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: rolling
thoughts
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
3 pm railway station
(back home)
march afternoon
a sort of flowering wind
(black sky)
blond hair ()
parkin lot bicycles
cars & bus people
rolling thoughts
(spring)
spring
the 2th invention
after the wheel
3:10 pm bus stop
-------
Rinaldo
05mar98
-------
To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: mc
believe
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:19:44 +0000
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET> Subject: i
believe
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
i believe that
there is energy conversion after life i would like to believe in re-incarnation
i believe in yoga
i believe in
chocolate-any and all kinds i believe that my cat zoe can understand
english and is smarter than me
i believe in
friendship
i belive the
government is totally fucked i believe in alfred e newman
i believe in
poetry
i would like to
believe that i am a poet i believe that driving in cars all too often separates
us from life on the streets and in the air and up in the trees i believe that
time is more important than money i believe in guardian angels
i believe i have
guardian angels who have manisfested themselves to me over and over when i have
most needed them i believe in john lennon
i want to believe
that peace can be attained.
i believe in
dannon's vanilla yogurt
i believe in
generosity and practice it whenever i can i believe that we all have dark
sides, and that there are lessons to be learned in facing them
i still believe
in rock and roll, i still believe in jerry g.
i believe that
living each day mindfully is art i believe that i am as young as i want to be,
i believe that the x-files are the best tv going i believe in miracles
i believe that
there is intelligent life out there in the galaxies
=====================================================================To:
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Jim
Gardner <jag@RAHUL.NET> wirespider
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:59:19 -0800
Reply-To: The Bohemian Mailing List
<BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: The Bohemian Mailing List <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
From: Jim Gardner
<jag@RAHUL.NET> Subject: ook,
a spider
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Lucky Spiders
.
.
_Che mi porta fortuna_
.
.
.
Little werespider
through my door
your spiderlegs
having spun
for me this portal.
.
Come here, you,
little ole spider--
I say, oh little
spider, do not go
oh stay, little
spider, close your door.
.
Oh little spider,
love's ambassador,
thread on your
wings of angels
to fly to my fortunate
door,
do not go; oh stay, lucky
little spider, by
my gate.
.
.
J.
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: back
beat digyrself
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%1998032411541649@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
References:
in the street
bob dylan &
allen ginsberg
on the road
dont read
those pages
there's an
hero in it
what are u?