=========================================================================
Date:
Mon, 29 May 1995 22:22:45 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Viral Ponderings
If "language is a virus from Outer space,"
is poetry a vaccine?
And
Quien es? eh?
Yours in Bill,
Alan C. Reese
=========================================================================
Date:
Mon, 29 May 1995 22:28:08 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Quien es?
Does anyone know if Wm Burroughs Communications (PO
BOX 147/Lawrence,KS)
has any network capabilities? I have a fax number, but
would like to
know if they are online. If they aren't, what can we
do to get them where
they should be?
Uncle
Bill's spirit should be soaring the cyber airwaves before....
Yours in Bill,
Alan
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 30 May 1995 11:09:06 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: Viral Ponderings
In-Reply-To:
Message of Mon, 29 May 1995 22:22:45 -0500 from <S72UREE@TOWSONVX>
Only if it's cut-up poetry!
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:33:48 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
otr film
I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is casting
Sean Penn as Dean
and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon
Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery Clift
Sal. Just to get
the ball rolling on this discussion group, what do you
think? What pair
of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean Moriarty
and Sal Paradise?
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: otr film
In-Reply-To: In
reply to your message of WED 07 JUN 1995 20:33:48 EDT
>I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is
casting Sean Penn as Dean
>and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon
>Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery
Clift Sal. Just to get
>the ball rolling on this discussion group, what do
you think? What pair
>of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean
Moriarty and Sal Paradise?
If the above rumour is true, then it substantiates the
rumour that
Mr. Coppola is in the biz for the bucks.
Sean Penn and Brad Pitt are fine kid actors... cutey
pies. I don't
think that's what's needed for OTR, though. Actually,
I don't think the
lead characters need to be necessarily be kids (or
those faces we
automatically relate-to as kids'... Michael J Fox, for
instance).
Wouldn't it be great to see Lyle Lovett play Dean?
Just like when OTR was announced as a books-on-tape,
I'm eagerly
awaiting the product, but I don't expect to be
enchanted by the
thing. Besides, I think Dharma Bums and Subteranneans
would make
better films.
Jim
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:28:45 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: otr film
In-Reply-To:
Message of Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT from <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
On Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT Stedman, Jim said:
>>I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is
casting Sean Penn as Dean
>>and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon
>>Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery
Clift Sal. Just to get
>>the ball rolling on this discussion group,
what do you think? What pair
>>of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean
Moriarty and Sal Paradise?
>If the above rumour is true, then it substantiates
the rumour that
>Mr. Coppola is in the biz for the bucks.
>Sean Penn and Brad Pitt are fine kid actors...
cutey pies. I don't
>think that's what's needed for OTR, though.
Actually, I don't think the
>lead characters need to be necessarily be kids (or
those faces we
>automatically relate-to as kids'... Michael J Fox,
for instance).
>Wouldn't it be great to see Lyle Lovett play Dean?
>Just like when OTR was announced as a
books-on-tape, I'm eagerly
>awaiting the product, but I don't expect to be
enchanted by the
>thing. Besides, I think Dharma Bums and
Subteranneans would make
>better films.
>Jim
The Subterraneans was made into a movie in 1960. George Peppard played
Leo Percepied and Leslie Caron played Mardou Fox. It was full of
gratuitious violence. Kerouac was furious about it.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 10:11:34 -0400
Reply-To:
ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject:
Re: otr film
I'd rather see Penn and Pitt reverse roles, Penn as
Paradise, Pitt as Moriarty.
Pitt is
beautiful, no doubt, but he is something of a dunderhead who excels at
"noble savage" type roles. Penn could better carry off the portrayal of
the
sensitive and
intelligent Sal Paradise, alter-ego of Jack himself. Especially
if Coppola uses
a 1st person voiceover narration, I think Pitt would be
disastrous.
I'd like to see Gary Oldman as Paradise and Val Kilmer
as Moriarty, but I'm not
picking.
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy being born is busy dying."
"Then he was told: Remember all you have seen,
because everything forgotten
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 16:25:56 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
I haven't been able to get to alt.books.beat
generation through my
netnews group.
Can anyone give me a specific address so that I can try
to subscribe directly?
Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 15:32:18 -0700
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Patrick M. Mirucki" <Patriick@IX.NETCOM.COM>
>I haven't been able to get to alt.books.beat
generation through my
>netnews group.
Can anyone give me a specific address so that I can try
>to subscribe directly? Thanks.
>
>
Well..It looks as though your alreaady subscribed to
it. I'm currently
subscribed to the Beat Generation List and received
your message.
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:16:41 +1000
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Brian Lynch <Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject:
OTR casting
I thought the following message was great advice on
possible casting for the
film version of On the Road:
***
I'd rather see Penn and Pitt reverse roles, Penn as
Paradise, Pitt as
Moriarty.
Pitt is
beautiful, no doubt, but he is something of a dunderhead who excels
at
"noble savage" type roles. Penn could better carry off the portrayal of
the
sensitive and
intelligent Sal Paradise, alter-ego of Jack himself.
Especially
if Coppola uses
a 1st person voiceover narration, I think Pitt would be
disastrous.
I'd like to see Gary Oldman as Paradise and Val Kilmer
as Moriarty, but I'm
not
picking.
-
Mark S. Gordon
***
Let's not forget that Dean Moriarty was the alter-ego
representation for Neil
Cassady, who was very handsome, as well as
rugged--Pitt might work well
indeed (I agree that he'd be better off as Dean rather
than Sal). Val Kilmer
as Moriarty crossed my mind, too, but I wouldn't want
to see the Sal/Kerouac
character come off as less physical than Moriarty--Kerouac,
in addition to
vying with Cassady in the handsomeness department, was
a good-sized, rugged
guy himself (football at Columbia).
Someone else
suggested Lyle Lovett for Moriarty--that would definitely be
interesting, although Lyle would really have to
stretch to capture the
speed-rapping manic brilliance of Cassady.
Let's keep
those casting suggestions coming!
Perhaps we can inspire an
alternative, low-budget counterproposal to the Coppola
project!
Brian K. Lynch
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:32:43 +1000
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Brian Lynch
<Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: a
previous message
In case this didn't make it to the List. I was responding to the original
call which mentioned that Kerouac had thought Brando
would make a good Dean
and Montgomery Cliff would be the best Sal for the
film version of On the
Road:
"I think Kerouac had it about right. If we try to find those of the
appropriate age in the present time, I'd be interested
in seeing Johnny Depp
have a go at Sal and let Anthony Kiedis (have to cut
his hair) of the Red Hot
Chili Peppers try on Dean."
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:22:27 -0400
Reply-To:
ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject:
Kerouac Conference at NYU
Did anyone else attend the Kerouac conference at NYU,
held earlier this week.
Here are some snapshot observations:
1. I came away with a heightened appreciation for
Kerouac as a poet. In fact,
I think it may be fair to say that he was a poet
FIRST, and a fiction writer
second.
2. Gregory Corso is in deep, deep trouble personally
and I hope the people who
know and love him (Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, etc.) are
trying to save him.
3. Kerouac left an incredible crush of material
behind: books, journals, poems,
paintings, drawings, letters, notes. It may be that
most of what he wrote hasn't
even been released yet. Not only was this a revelation to me, but it
served as
a reminder that writers (which I am) and artists need
to be creating all the
time in as many mediums as they can. Never again will
I leave my house without a
notebook and pen and not feel a twinge of guilt. Kerouac may have had failings
as a person - we all do - but his writer's discipline
has to be considered the
standard.
Mark Gordon
"He not busy being born is busy dying."
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:24:24 -0400
Reply-To:
ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject:
Re: OTR casting
In addition to difficulties recreating the breakneck
pace of Dean Moriarty's
style, Lyle Lovett would have problems with Dean's
overwhelming physicality.
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 17:18:19 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Tracey L. Milton" <milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject:
Ann Charters in Framingham, MA 6/17
Ann Charters in Framingham, MA
Ann Charters, Kerouac biographer, and editor of the
recently published
Collected Letters and Portable Kerouac will speak at
Border's Bookstore,
85 Worcester Rd (Rte 9), Framingham, MA at 2:00 PM,
Saturday, June 17. For
information call (508)875-2321.
posted by tracey on behalf of Lowell appreciates
Kerouac!
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:43:15 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Road Movie
I came upon this professional note in the May issue of
PMLA which I
thought I'd pass on:
"Steven Cohan and Ina Rae Hark seek submissions
for a collection of essays on the road movie. The book seeks to look at
the road movie historically and culturally from a
variety of critical
and theoretical perspectives. Consideration of the road move's
relations to questions of nationalism, sexuality,
technology, and genre
are especially welcome; papers examining connections
between road films,
road literature (e.g. Kerouac), and television (e.g.
Route 66) are also
invited.
Contributors should send 2-page proposals and vitae by 15
August 1995 to both Cohan, Dept. of English, Syracuse
Univ., Syracuse,
NY 13244 (fax 315 443-5390), and Hark, Dept. of
English, Univ. of South
Carolina, Columbia 29208 (fax 803 777-1302) Preliminary
inquiries may be
sent to smcohan@mailbox.syr.edu and
hark@hsscls.hssc.scarolina.edu
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 14 Jun 1995 23:42:38 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Uncle Bill
What's the concensus of opinion out there on WB's
appearance in the
Nike commercial?
Does anyone know the physical, mental status of
Gregory Corso? Heard he was
doing poorly.
I'm reading Kerouac's letters and find the Charters
explanatory interludes
a bit unnecessary, slightly intrusive. and somewhat
repetitive. The last
letter from Sebastian Sampas really foretells the
coming of Dean Moriarty.
Anyone else out there perusing same?
Alan C.
Reese
Baltimore
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 15 Jun 1995 11:21:47 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: Uncle Bill
In-Reply-To:
Message of Wed, 14 Jun 1995 23:42:38 -0500 from <S72UREE@TOWSONVX>
At first, I thought some of Charters' footnotes were
obvious. Is there
really a need to identify G.B. Shaw as an Irish
dramatist? Given the
wide audience of the Selected Letters, however, maybe
it is necessary.
Teaching freshman at Brooklyn College, it often
surprises me how little
they know of literature or history.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:23:09 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: Uncle Bill
Shouldn't a footnote not only be informative, but
relevant? For example,
the Shaw note as a case in point. Is it going to help
a freshman or any
other ignorant lout who is bothering to read K.'s
letters to know that
Shaw was an Irish dramatist? Shouldn't there be
something more to
connect the reference to K.'s state of mind, themes,
characters, or
whatever? I think by eliminating the unnecessary and
redundant in Charters'
footnotes and explanatory notes, the collection of
letters could have included
more kerouac letters.
ACR
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 15 Jun 1995 17:33:17 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Tracey L. Milton" <milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject:
Ann Charters Visit (fwd)
> Ann Charters in Framingham, MA
>
> Ann Charters, Kerouac biographer, and editor of
the recently published
> Collected Letters and Portable Kerouac will speak
at Border's Bookstore,
> 85 Worcester Rd (Rte 9), Framingham, MA at 2:00
PM, Saturday, June 17. For
> information call (508)875-2321.
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 16 Jun 1995 09:36:21 -0700
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Uncle Bill
In-Reply-To:
<01HRQGJWYDBM8Y6V76@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
I found it useful to know that Oscar Wilde had been
imprisoned for
homosexuality--found it in a footnote in the Kerouac
letters book by
Charters.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:44:36 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
kerouac jack's
Does anybody know of a restaurant in the Chicago area
called Kerouac Jack's? I
f anyone has been there, I'd like to know what you
thought of it. I'm heading
for Chicago and am wondering if it's worth a visit.
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 10:43:25 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
William Baker <c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: kerouac jack's
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%95062009470883@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
No but look forward to seeing you in the windy
city.Bill BakerOn Tue, 20 Jun
1995, Bill Gargan wrote:
> Does anybody know of a restaurant in the Chicago
area called Kerouac Jack's?
I
> f anyone has been there, I'd like to know what
you thought of it. I'm heading
> for Chicago and am wondering if it's worth a
visit.
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 15:40:08 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: kerouac jack's
In-Reply-To:
Message of Tue, 20 Jun 1995 10:43:25 -0500 from
<c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Got your new e-mail address. See you at the EALS mtg.
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:38:02 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:
What's Burroughs up to?
Does anybody have any information about what William
S. Burroughs has been up
to recently?
I've read (I forget where) that he isn't traveling much but I
don't know if that means he no longer makes public appearances
or reads,
teaches, etc.
I've wanted to hear him speak/perform for most of my adult life
and would greatly appreciate any info anyone might
have on the subject, also
anything on recent or upcoming publications.
thanks,
Win
Mattingly
gmatt1@ukcc.uky.edu
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:49:25 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject:
Re: What's Burroughs up to?
Win,
You are right. My info is that WSB does not travel and
really doesn't make
public appearances, although he has done telephone
hook-ups for the 94 NYU
Conference and one or two others.
A book of his letters is being published this year, or
is already out. I
don't have the details at hand, but the bookstroe
should be able to help
out. You can also call 1-800-KEROUAC for an excellent
catalog of current
beat stuff, they may have it. Let me also reccommend
"Beat Scene"
Magazine. It's a British publication that does a great
job of covering the
beats past and present. The issue before last (I
think) featured WSB.
Write: Kevin Ring, 27 Court Leet, Binley Woods, NR,
Coventry,
Warwickshire, CV3 2JQ, England.
I am co-publisher of "Dharma beat" magazine.
We aim to help publicize
Kerouac and sometimes beat related activities,
publications and
organizations. Spring 95 included articles on
Desolation Peak, Mexico City
Blues, Big Sur and events around the country. Send me
your snail mail
address and I will send you a sample if you are
interested.
Mark Hemenway
mhemenway@s1.drc.com
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:08:49 +0100
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
RADLEY-FASCIONE M D <M.D.Radley-fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject:
WSB
Win
Don't know if you've heard, but Uncle Bill has had a
new work recently
published, by Viking in States I think, called My
Education (A Book of
Dreams). It's great and covers old Tangier days up to
relatively recent
times in Lawrence...Highly recommended, buy it now,
you won't regret it.
Also, I assume you know about the recordings Bill made
with the Disposable
Heroes of Hipophrasy (sp?), Spare Ass Annie, a couple
of years ago now
(course you do!)
Daniel
P.S. Does anyone have, or know where I can get, a
definitive list of WSB
works post Western Lands? Any help appreciated.
Thanks
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 21 Jun 1995 10:44:54 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Richard Centing <rcenting@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:
Re: kerouac jack's
In-Reply-To:
Your message of Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:44:36 -0400 (EDT)
BEAT-L:what would Kerouac Jack's serve:apple pie and
coffee?
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 22 Jun 1995 14:14:39 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
WSB letters
Someone wanted a citation for Burroughs' letters the
other day. It's
*The Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959.* NY:
Viking, 1993.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 22 Jun 1995 12:12:44 -0700
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Jim Harrod <jaharrod@UCI.EDU>
Subject:
Burroughs Sighting
Andrei Condrescu's new book - "The Blood
Countess" - has an endorsement on
the back of the dust jacket by William S. Burroughs -
he calls the book "a
page turner".....
Jim Harrod
jaharrod@uci.edu
url = http://bookweb.cwis.uci.edu:8042/
ph = (714) 824-7878
fx = (714) 824-8545
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:48:50 EST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Holden, Lindel" <lholden%smtplink@RELAY.NSWC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:
Fire Watcher
So are there
any openings for fire watchers up there in the
Cascades? by
the Skagit with a view of Hozomeen?
samsara sam
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:31:03 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Kerouac
This may seem impertinent coming from a young person
who has been thrown
into the Category: Generation X, but my husband told
me about BEAT-L
because I recently read "Visions of Gerard"
and was moved by Kerouac's
sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older
brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I have
found that
losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a young
age was one of the
most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,
and so he became a "saintly" image in my
past. Kerouac's honest approach to
immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.
I've started to read "On the Road" and I am
up to his arrival in
Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's travels in
"Zen and the Art..." I
can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are of
the people he will meet
and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik,
but in
my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas and
experiences that Kerouac
writes about.
Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is looking
for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe there is
someone who can
understand why I feel close to a certain writer, and
since I haven't yet
seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would give
this a try. :)
Go in peace.
Kristen
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 11:58:57 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
As another new member of the list, I'm glad to see it
works! Personally I
feel Kerouac takes his place as one of the great
writers because of what
Kirsten says here. He meant a lot to me when I was
growing up for completely
different yet equally intense and personal reasons. As
a young Brit growing
up in gloomy ealy 70's London, he made me get on a
Greyhound and explore
America for three months as soon as I could at age 17,
and as I explored his
works he spoke to me again and again. That was before
I went into
publishing, discovered a lot more about what his style
meant and how
important all of that was to the future of writing.
For that matter he also
got me into jazz, and is probably a good proportion of
the reason I'm now
living here in the States twenty years later. I think
that both his honesty
and his writing style do get into people's souls in a
way few if any others
do, and that's what stands out. And of course looking
back some of it seems
naive now, but there's always plenty more in the
writing to explore. So
maybe others feel the same way?
Nick W-W
>This may seem impertinent coming from a young
person who has been thrown
>into the Category: Generation X, but my husband
told me about BEAT-L
>because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
>sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older
>brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I
have found that
>losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a
young age was one of the
>most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,
>and so he became a "saintly" image in my
past. Kerouac's honest approach to
>immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.
>
>I've started to read "On the Road" and I
am up to his arrival in
>Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's travels
in "Zen and the Art..." I
>can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are
of the people he will meet
>and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik,
but in
>my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas
and experiences that Kerouac
>writes about.
Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is looking
>for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe there
is someone who can
>understand why I feel close to a certain writer,
and since I haven't yet
>seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would
give this a try. :)
>
>Go in peace.
>Kristen
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:05:24 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
DAVIS ALAN <davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
Right on, Kristen.
It's why we read, and it's who we are.
Al
On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> This may seem impertinent coming from a young
person who has been thrown
> into the Category: Generation X, but my husband
told me about BEAT-L
> because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
> sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older
> brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I
have found that
> losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a
young age was one of the
> most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,
> and so he became a "saintly" image in
my past. Kerouac's honest approach to
> immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.
>
> I've started to read "On the Road" and
I am up to his arrival in
> Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's
travels in "Zen and the Art..." I
> can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are
of the people he will meet
> and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik,
but in
> my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas
and experiences that Kerouac
> writes about.
Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is
looking
> for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe
there is someone who can
> understand why I feel close to a certain writer,
and since I haven't yet
> seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would
give this a try. :)
>
> Go in peace.
> Kristen
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 21:18:14 +0300
Reply-To:
jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
Comments: To: pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU
In-Reply-To:
<9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu> (message from Kristen
VanRiper
on Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:31:03 -0500)
Very interesting post.
Funny that you read `Visions of Gerard' before OTR; I
don't think I've gotten around to reading Gerard,
though I think I've looked
at it. It's not
the first title that comes to mind when you mention Kerouac.
I wondered reading your post about how you would react
to OTR; perhaps I was
thinking more of Neal Cassady's `First Third'. I had a friend once who
couldn't stand OTR, while I couldn't stand her
favorite book, `Been down so
long...' by Richard Farina. I dumped her, of course. As for Pirsig's book, I
absolutely can't stand that either. I wondered if liking one of these books
automatically means you won't like certain others.
Somehow I find I can relate very well to the Beats and
their writing, while I
simply cannot relate to so-called classical English
and American literature
(before Joyce, say).
I just fail to see what's so good about it. It is
_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly dull.
About `First Third', I gave a copy to an old friend of
mine who read one of
the more sexist passages aloud and threw it on the
floor in disgust. I picked
it up and kept it, so it was a great present from my
point of view. As for
the (ex-) friend, he went from being a misogynist with
great promise to a
pussy-whipped puppet who can't think for himself. It's really a shame. Hate
to see a good man go bad like that. But remember, folks, it just goes to show
that Cassady is a great barometer for these
things. And if that fails to
please, try Bukowski.
(Sorry, Vonnegut's just a little too cute and clever
for me. As Jack would
say, his stuff is `just fiction').
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 14:35:46 -0600
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Martin Taylor <mtaylor@GPU.SRV.UALBERTA.CA>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> understand why I feel close to a certain writer,
and since I haven't yet
> seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would
give this a try. :)
Hello Kristen, try the newsgroup:
alt.books.kurt-vonnegut
martin
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:57:16 -0700
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Frank Beacham (via RadioMail)" <beacham@RADIOMAIL.NET>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
To Kristen:
To me your comments are just what this mailing list is
about. Thanks for
the best reason I've heard lately on why to read
Kerouac.
Frank Beacham
163 Amsterdam Ave. #361
New York, NY 10023
(212) 873-9349
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:00:54 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Willard Goodwin <wgoodwin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:
Classic English lit
Joseph Rodrigue wrote:
>Somehow I find I can relate very well to the Beats
and their writing, while I
>simply cannot relate to so-called classical
English and American literature
>(before Joyce, say). I just fail to see what's so good about
it. It is
>_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly dull.
And yet the Beats themselves had very great reverence
for the English
Romantics (see my favorite Ginsberg poem, "Wales
Visitation," an explicit
allusion to Wordsworth), Blake especially, and much of
the ancient sacred
literature; and in American literature for Melville at
least, of the
"classics." Of course Joseph, de gustibus
non disputandum est.
P.S. At this Center we have deep archival research
collections in Beats
(even if Stanford recently acquired the great Ginsberg
archive).
Willard Goodwin, Bibliographer
Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center
University of Texas at Austin
P.O. Box 7219
Austin, TX 78713-7219
(512) 471-9113; FAX (512) 471-9646
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:18:12 CST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
GUITAR GOD <SGUNTER@BVILLE.NWSC.K12.AR.US>
Organization: Bentonville High School
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
I, too, am
new to the list but found your post enlightening. How
good it is to find this list, to find other
seekers. Yes, go in
peace, and may you stay forever young....thanks.... (PS
im sure i
will find out how but is it possible to digest
Beat-l?)
############
Steve Gunter
BHS/NWACC
Bentonville,AR 72712
####################
=========================================================================
Date: Thu,
29 Jun 1995 01:38:08 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
>because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
>sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother.
Coolness, Kristen....Yours is the first post I've
received since starting
this list and you love my favorite Kerouac book.
The connection
I've made to Kerouac's writings has always been through the
heart. To this day I remember the way I felt the first
time I read Visions of
G about 20 years ago - as if I had stumbled upon a
well of unashamed
sweetness and tenderness. You could send me running
back to the book right
now, except that I'm just starting on William
Vollmann's long "Fathers and
Crows".
There is something about Vollmann that reminds me of Kerouac.
Perhaps they are both just the kind of sensitive bad
boys that some women
love (on paper at least).
Glad to hear from all of you!
Julie Hulvey
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:30:52 +0100
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Andy Petrie... 01473 224001" <petrie_a@SVHDEV.BT.CO.UK>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
Hello from sunny England...
First of all, greetings to all on this list. :) I signed up a few days ago, and
things were quiet at first, before Kirsten's
post. Now more and more of us seem
to be crawling out from under our respective stones...
Did I just happen to sign
on at a quiet period?
Well, like I say, I'm new to the list, and relatively
new to the Beat. My first
great love was poetry of all kinds, which of course
led to "Leaves of Grass",
"Howl" etc.
I'm now immersed in "On the Road", which I figured was as good
a
place to start as any.
Do correct me if I'm wrong - suggestions always welcome!
Love and Peace,
Andy
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 07:00:27 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Gene Simakowicz <Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
Wow!
I just signed on the list a few days ago also. It's
great to be here. As for
the Kerouac reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is
probably the Bible. How
about a question to kick off some newsgroup
discussion?
Do you think On The Road would make a good movie?
If so, whom would you cast in the two main roles?
Gene
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 07:41:36 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject:
Re[2]: Kerouac
In-Reply-To: In
reply to your message of WED 28 JUN 1995 23:00:27 EDT
>Wow!
>I just signed on the list a few days ago also.
It's great to be here. As for
>the Kerouac reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is
probably the Bible. How
>about a question to kick off some newsgroup
discussion?
>
>Do you think On The Road would make a good movie?
>If so, whom would you cast in the two main roles?
>
>Gene
OTR is one of FF Cop.'s projects, even as we speak,
but I don't think
it's been announced who is appearing in the leading
roles. I wouldn't
mind getting into a discussion about how _we_ would
try and treat the
production, were it ours to treat.
This will probably be the one film that folks will
have to hang Jack's
raincoat on... and I think my treatment would include
more than the OTR
narrative. It would be interesting to have the action
presented (through
flashback or whatever) by a 1967 Jack. The film would
then include not
only the story of OTR, but also the fall-out of OTR.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:54:32 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.950628143322.97629A-100000@gpu2.srv.ualberta.ca>
from "Martin Taylor" at Jun 28, 95 02:35:46 pm
> Hello Kristen, try the newsgroup:
>
> alt.books.kurt-vonnegut
>
> martin
thank you! :)
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:07:48 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
>
> Joseph Rodrigue wrote:
>
> >Somehow I find I can relate very well to the
Beats and their writing, while I
> >simply cannot relate to so-called classical
English and American literature
> >(before Joyce, say). I just fail to see what's so good about
it. It is
> >_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly
dull.
>
> And yet the Beats themselves had very great
reverence for the English
> Romantics (see my favorite Ginsberg poem,
"Wales Visitation," an explicit
> allusion to Wordsworth), Blake especially, and
much of the ancient sacred
> literature; and in American literature for
Melville at least, of the
> "classics." Of course Joseph, de
gustibus non disputandum est.
I was thinking about this comment yesterday, and I
realize why it is that
I am not always impressed with "classical"
literature... I think it's
because I'm impetuous, for the most part, and Kerouac
does offer that
spontaneous, from-the-gut, sort of writing that
appeals to my impetuous
nature. I don't
want to say that my youth is the only reason for being
this way...I've met many impatient people of all ages
:).. and even
though I find it to be my biggest fault, it is part of
what makes me the
person that I am. I guess it's all about what you are
willing to accept in
your mind and your soul. :) There will come a time when I will be more
accepting. In some ways, I am. Joe talked about how
others would
recommend books to him that he found deplorable. I know of so many
writers that I can relate to that have nothing in
common, really,
other than my personal connection. I always try to keep an
open mind. :)
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:24:04 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<950629013806_80620634@aol.com> from "Julie Hulvey" at
Jun 29,
95
01:38:08 am
>
> >because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
> >sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother.
>
> Coolness, Kristen....Yours is the first post I've
received since starting
> this list and you love my favorite Kerouac book.
> The connection I've made to Kerouac's writings has
always been through the
> heart. To this day I remember the way I felt the
first time I read Visions of
> G about 20 years ago - as if I had stumbled upon
a well of unashamed
> sweetness and tenderness. You could send me
running back to the book right
> now, except that I'm just starting on William
Vollmann's long "Fathers and
> Crows".
There is something about Vollmann that reminds me of Kerouac.
> Perhaps they are both just the kind of sensitive
bad boys that some women
> love (on paper at least).
I was wondering how other women feel about Kerouac.
:) This morning, I
got to thinking about the women I've read about so far
in OTR. Granted,
it is only a perception, and I'm only in San Francisco
right now, but it
reminds me of my mother and the sadness I feel when I
think of all that
she expected out of life and how disappointed and
disallusioned she
became. I think
there is a "sensitive bad boy" in me.
Pete Townsend
said, "I am a man and a woman," and I
believe that he meant sexuality to
be a perception and not a gonad. :) Jack's perception of women may
sadden me, but it was his reality. It's a reality that exists today.
I also got to thinking about "Visions of
Gerard" and Jack's mother; how she
lived with the abuse of an alcoholic husband who could
not face
death. My mother, to this day, will not accept and
chooses to live in a
"drunken stupor" of her own. Jack shows that gender is not a factor when
one chooses to deny life.
Nice to hear from you. :) Peace.
Kristen
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:30:23 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
cyberJack <jackb@MSI.NET>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
> I, too,
am new to the list but found your post enlightening. How
>good it is to find this list, to find other
seekers.
I am always encouraged that one can find seekers
everywhere.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:43:02 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
JoAnn Ruvoli <jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<9506291307.AA25229@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
On Thu, 29 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> because I'm impetuous, for the most part, and
Kerouac does offer that
> spontaneous, from-the-gut, sort of writing that
appeals to my impetuous
> nature.
Kerouac thought
of writing as a performance, like a jazz musician who
has only one chance to perform a night, Kerouac wrote
(performed)
straight through. You can't change or revise a improv
jazz solo, and
Kerouac believed the same about writing.
JoAnne
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:49:42 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject:
First Reading of On The Road
In-Reply-To: In
reply to your message of THU 29 JUN 1995 00:24:04 EDT
Date: Summer, 1973
Place: Guest room at Helen Forbes' house, a few miles
out of Nairobi
Circumstances: Our family grew up in Kenya (my dad was
in the United
Nations). Hell of a party melted into my having to
spend the night at
the Forbes' place, rather than motorcycling home (20
miles). I woke up,
and the place was empty. The headboard of the guest
bed doubled as a
book case, and I tipped my head back to scan the
titles. _On The Road_
was the first and only book I pulled from the
collection.
I recognized the author's name from readings about
Dylan (Anthony
Scaduto's book, mostly), and from the liner notes off
of "Blood On The
Tracks" (I think).
Once I started reading, I knew I was in trouble. My
travelling feet had
long been itching... and I only stayed in one place
long enough to
finish the book (one sitting).
I turned the last page, ran outside, hopped on my
Norton 750, and tore
off for Mombasa (300-some miles away) (where I was
certain that Kim was
waiting for me).
As it turned out, the book has remained faithful. Kim
had found a new
guy, the bike led me into a bad wreck, and Scaduto's
biography has been
poo-pooed. Yeah, OTR remains faithful to that first
(and all subsequent)
readings... and I suppose Dylan has as well.
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:54:33 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: First Reading of On The Road
In-Reply-To:
<29JUN95.10614910.0010.MUSIC@NMU.EDU> from "Stedman,
Jim" at Jun 29, 95 09:49:42 am
> readings... and I suppose Dylan has as well.
> Jim Stedman
How true.
Kristen VanRiper
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:03:45 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Stan Bernstein <sbernst@PANIX.COM>
Subject:
Kerouac audio tape
In-Reply-To:
<29JUN95.08308993.0076.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
At a Street Fair on Carmine Street in Greenwich
Village, New York City
about five years ago, a vender had set up his table
with "Spoken
Arts"-type tape casettes. I purchased one called
"Jack Kerouac & Neal
Cassady--a private recording 1953--1954." The
notice within the casette
case reads: "Jack & Neal together 1953-54 @
Cassady's house, San Jose,
CA. Neal reads Proust; Jack tries to correct his
pronunciation of
'Gilberte'; Jack sings and reads from Dr. Sax. Neal
approves, Neal
discusses Burroughs, Comment by Carolyn; 1967,8(?)
reading from Vanity of
Dulouz and talking." Publisher of the casette is
listed as Cassette
Gazette, 83 rue
de la Tombe Issoire 75014 Paris, France.
Listened to this casette during a long bus trip and
really enjoyed it.
Wonder if other such tapes are floating around and if
so where do you get
them?
Thanks to whoever started this list--a truly great
idea.
All best wishes/SB
sbernst@panix.com
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:21:22 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Andrew J Schwartz <schwrtz@MAGICNET.NET>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac audio tape
>sbernst@panix.com said:::
>Listened to this casette during a long bus trip
and really enjoyed it.
>Wonder if other such tapes are floating around and
if so where do you get
>them?
>
Ryko Disc came out with a box set of beat spoken
performances a few years
ago that seems to have some similar material.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:58:32 BST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
James Douglas Jack - Tartan Warrior! <jjack@MPC-UK.COM>
Subject:
The tongue of angels
Salutations and halos,
Great to hear
such rapturous appreciation of writing. Anyone else out
there
into Gregory Corso as well ? And Vonnegut ? And Thomas Wolfe...
I know
I'm probably pushing the definition of 'beat' here, but what the
forceps,
if it's cool it's cool. I like that idea of writing being a one
off
performance - reminds me of the debate in 'Naked Lunch'.
A
confession to end : I've never read any Kerouac. Is his prose as
alive as
Ginsbergs songs ? Which one should I start with ?
Peace
and Pirhanas,
JJ
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:05:19 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
Message of Thu, 29 Jun 1995 01:38:08 -0400 from <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
I just discovered Vollman, myself! In the past week I've read Whores for
Gloria and The Rainbow Stories. Both are *fantastic* and definitely Kerouac-
esque, in subject matter (S.F. counterculture and
Tenderloin street scene) and
flowing, seemingly spontaneous prose style. In White Knights, an autobiograph-
ical account of Vollman's experiences hanging out with
S.F. skinheads, one of
the skinheads remarks on Vollman's story (while
loading a bong-hit): "Dee says
you need work on your grammar, you use too many run-on
sentences. She should
know, she went to college." What a perfect comment on education, on how
often
we kill what is good and natural and real in language,
the forces Kerouac and
the other beats wrote against! I think Vollman owes much to Kerouac (and
Burroughs, to whom he is often compared as an explorer
of the dark seamy
underbelly of the city.) What do the rest of you think about Vollman?
Is he a
direct descendent of the beats? How does his vision of the Tenderloin compare
with Kerouac's?
I'm not sure if a this list is even the place to talk about a
gen. x'er like Vollman, but this is the first contact
I've had with others who
have even heard of him, so I thought I'd speak up...
--Win Mattingly
Also, what about Bukowski? Again, not strictly a beat but definitely
some con-
nection. Does
anybody know about any Bukowski lists?
I'd also like to join in
some dialogue about H. Selby, esp. Requiem for a Dream
and whatever he's doing
these days (I heard he teaches at USC, what about
recent writing and confer-
ences?)
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:33:58 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Ron Morrow <MORROW@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject:
First Reading Of "On The Road"
The first time I read "On The Road" was in
1974. It was the
Summertime and I was scheduled to start at University
in
the Fall. So, I decided to do some travelling. My
brother
had given me the book and I read it as I hitchhiked
from
Toronto to Vancouver and then north to Alaska. I was
17 at
the time and had an opportunity to expand my horizons
in
many different ways. Reading "On The Road"
and being on the
road at the same time is an experience that I will
always
remember.
Hope those of you who haven't read it yet will enjoy
it as
much as I did that Summer.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:08:09 +5000
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Authenticated
sender is <joehler@[198.51.81.100]>
From:
James Oehler <joehler@SUCCESS.NET>
Subject:
Burroughs&Bukowski
Hello all,
I just joined
to the group too. And I just heard someone mention
Bukowski, his books are great. I have read practically
all of them, I
especially like what he has to say about people, that
all of us
insane only a few a are sane. Which is quite true, but
I am still on
the insane side for now. There is some other things I
like about him
that I cant remember right now. So any Burroughs
readers out there,
so far I have only read "Junky", which is an
interesting book. By the
way has anybody read his sons (I know he died) books i know he has one out
called
"Speed in combination w/ something else. Any new
books by Bukowski
out yet? Anybody see "Barfly" that was a
great movie. Also did
anybody pick up the record w/ William Burroughs and
Kurt Cobain, that
is a great record.
Never heard of Vollman can someone email a reply
and tell me who he is. As far as Kerouac books go I
havent got into
him yet, all though my dad has all his Kerouac books
layin around the
house, maybe I ll pick one up. But right now I am
reading "Birth of
tradgedy" by Friedrich Nietzsche, pretty
interesting so far. Alrighty
hope this sparks up some talking, cuz I am interested
in those ?'s I
asked.
Later
--
__________________________________
joehler@success.net
__________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:12:33 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
William Baker <c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<47D61018EF@bville.nwsc.k12.ar.us>
please take me off this list as fascinating as it is
takes too much
time.Good luck to you all and best wishes to Bill G.
Bill Baker.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:57:54 PDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Tim Bowden <tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization: Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject:
Re: Kerouac audio tape
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.950629095046.19148A-100000@panix3.panix.com>
Stan Bernstein <sbernst@PANIX.COM writes:
------------------------------- Original Message
--------------------------
At a Street Fair on Carmine Street in Greenwich
Village, New York City
about five years ago, a vender had set up his table
with "Spoken
Arts"-type tape casettes. I purchased one called
"Jack Kerouac & Neal
Cassady--a private recording 1953--1954." The
notice within the casette
case reads: "Jack & Neal together 1953-54 @
Cassady's house, San Jose,
CA. Neal reads Proust; Jack tries to correct his
pronunciation of
'Gilberte'; Jack sings and reads from Dr. Sax. Neal
approves, Neal
discusses Burroughs, Comment by Carolyn; 1967,8(?)
reading from Vanity of
Dulouz and talking." Publisher of the casette is
listed as Cassette
Gazette, 83 rue
de la Tombe Issoire 75014 Paris, France.
-------------------------End Original Message
----------------------------
This note brings back memories. I lived for the last four months
of 1972 with Carolyn Cassady, and I heard that
recording on the old
boxy rell-to-reel on which it was recorded. I particularly recall
Jack leaning into the mike while Neal was intoning in
the background
now with his `Jeeeeeel-bahrt!' corrections during a
recitation from
Proust.
Sure like to know if it were available generally...
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
| NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of
storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:18:19 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kirk Moe Brown <kirkmoe@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: The tongue of angels
In-Reply-To:
<9506291458.AA21174@comdev>
I wanted to thank Kristin and everyone else for making
this list
come alive. The
silence that first greeted my subscription was
disheartening -- I wondered how a list on the Beats
could possible not
buzz with heartfelt, spontaneous conversation. I guess we were all just
a little shy...
I think it makes perfect sense for us today to find
new sources of life and
energy in the Beats.
Generation X or not, perhaps for all of us the
Beats single a strong, generational, and general voice
of disbelief in and
dissaproval of a world gone mad with consumerism and
the strength of
machine organization.
For me, I see the beats rejecting that accepted
version of insanity for another version, perhaps
rooted in, and at least
influenced by, the classics of the past. The beats traded the grim
reality of atomic-age living for revealing in the
vitality of their own
lives, dreams, aspirations, and just general
angelicness.
Unfortunately, I think the Beats leave us with
something of a mixed bag.
Kristin pointed out the treatment of women in
OTR. I find it disturbing,
too. I think that, in a way, Beat shortcomings in
that area can be a
saving grace for
the work. We see that the Beats weren't
infallible
sages, but
seekers just like us. Perhaps we can
model ourselves after
their bravery and
spirit, but with new emphasis on a more inclusive
vision of life
and ourselves.
I hope this isn't
too pedagogical for this list. I really
just wanted to
say thanks to
everybody for writing -- I've loved reading your stuff.
Kirk
______________________________________________
"To see
clearly, you must first listen carefully."
Jaime Rodriguez
La Raza
(on the eve of
the LA Rodney King trial riots)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 17:23:04 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Douglas Jack - Tartan Warrior!
<jjack@MPC-UK.COM>
Subject: Dressed up like a carcrash
To all the Bukowski devotees - yeah! I
read 'Post Office' and it really is
a fresh breeze.
'In the morning it was still morning and I was not dead..'
Adieu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:17:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The tongue of angels
There's a lot to
this. You can't expect Kerouac, who was just a regular
young guy of the
1940's with a prodigious talent, to have absorbed all the
politically
correct mores we (try) to live by now. And he was the chronicler
of it all, more
than he was that much of an active participant. We
understand the
whole movement because of his skill in bringing it to us so
vibrantly. I
think it's possible to love Kerouac's writing without getting
particularly
excited by the lifestyle it portrays, or especially liking the
rest of the work
that others put out. HOWL was a genuinely astonishing piece
of work, original
and revolutionary, but (and I realize I may be destroying
the good-natured
tone of the group over the last few days) the rest of it is
pretty
second-rate, the spontaneityof it really a copy of what Kerouac had
come up with as a
new approach to writing.
Also remember
that Kerouac, ageing and drunk, caused a lot of trouble in the
mid 60's by
blasting off against anti-Vietnam war demonstrators. I think
quite a lot of us
might not have liked him too much. He's still my literary
hero though
Nick W-W
>I wanted to
thank Kristin and everyone else for making this list
>come
alive. The silence that first greeted my
subscription was
>disheartening
-- I wondered how a list on the Beats could possible not
>buzz with
heartfelt, spontaneous conversation. I
guess we were all just
>a little
shy...
>
>I think it
makes perfect sense for us today to find new sources of life and
>energy in the
Beats. Generation X or not, perhaps for
all of us the
>Beats single
a strong, generational, and general voice of disbelief in and
>dissaproval
of a world gone mad with consumerism and the strength of
>machine
organization.
>
>For me, I see
the beats rejecting that accepted
>version of
insanity for another version, perhaps rooted in, and at least
>influenced
by, the classics of the past. The beats
traded the grim
>reality of
atomic-age living for revealing in the vitality of their own
>lives,
dreams, aspirations, and just general angelicness.
>
>Unfortunately,
I think the Beats leave us with something of a mixed bag.
>Kristin
pointed out the treatment of women in OTR.
I find it disturbing,
>too. I think that, in a way, Beat shortcomings in
that area can be a
>saving grace
for the work. We see that the Beats
weren't infallible
>sages, but
seekers just like us. Perhaps we can
model ourselves after
>their bravery
and spirit, but with new emphasis on a more inclusive
>vision of
life and ourselves.
>
>I hope this
isn't too pedagogical for this list. I
really just wanted to
>say thanks to
everybody for writing -- I've loved reading your stuff.
>
>Kirk
>
>______________________________________________
>
>"To see
clearly, you must first listen carefully."
>Jaime
Rodriguez La Raza
>(on the eve
of the LA Rodney King trial riots)
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 20:37:28 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: The tongue of angels
In-Reply-To:
<199506291712.AA239905939@lulu.acns.nwu.edu> (message from Nick
Weir-Williams on Thu, 29 Jun 1995
12:17:13 -0500)
> From: Nick
Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
> HOWL was a
genuinely astonishing piece of work, original and revolutionary,
> but (and I
realize I may be destroying the good-natured tone of the group
> over the
last few days) the rest of it is pretty second-rate,
What specifically
was second-rate?
> the
spontaneity of it really a copy of what Kerouac had come up with as a
> new approach
to writing.
He didn't come up
with it. Cassady did.
> Also
remember that Kerouac, aging and drunk, caused a lot of trouble in the
> mid 60's by
blasting off against anti-Vietnam war demonstrators.
Huh? You think nobody was blasting off against
demonstrators in the 60's?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:36:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Tracey L. Milton"
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs&Bukowski
In-Reply-To: <199506291614.MAA22819@a.success.net>;
from "James Oehler" at Jun
29, 95 12:08 (noon)
> that I cant
remember right now. So any Burroughs readers out there,
> so far I
have only read "Junky", which is an interesting book. By the
> way has
anybody read his sons (I know he died)
books i know he has one out
> called
> "Speed
in combination w/ something else.
How and when did
Billy Burroughs die??
Tracey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:37:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott <kerouac@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Burroughs
Just wanted to
set the record straight--Burroughs is still alive and kicking.
Scott Gillaspie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:44:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Tracey L. Milton"
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950629123651.1561C-100000@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>;
from "Scott" at Jun 29,
95 12:37 (noon)
Was inquiring
about Burroughs son.
sorry for the
misunderstanding.
>
> Just wanted
to set the record straight--Burroughs is still alive and kicking.
>
> Scott
Gillaspie
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:18:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew J Schwartz
<schwrtz@MAGICNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs&Bukowski
>How and when
did Billy Burroughs die??
>
>Tracey
>
According to Ted
Morgan's brilliant biography of his dad, Literary Outlaw,
Billy died at
6:35am March 3 1981 of complications due to a liver
transplant. the Actual wording was, "acute
gastrointestinal hemorage
associated with
micronodular cirrhosis"
Andrew Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:03:43 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Win Mattingly
<GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:44:09 EDT from
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
On Thu, 29 Jun
1995 13:44:09 EDT Tracey L. Milton said:
>Was inquiring
about Burroughs son.
>sorry for the
misunderstanding.
>>
>> Just
wanted to set the record straight--Burroughs is still alive and kicking.
>>
>> Scott
Gillaspie
>>
William Burroughs
Jr. died of Cirrhosis (?) after a liver transplant in the
late 70's-early
80's, if I am remembering correctly. I
recommend the excellent
Burroughs Sr.
Biography titled Literary Outlaw written by Ted Morgan. Great
reading,
excellent photographs. I know Billy B.'s
first two books, Speed and
Kentucky Ham are
in print (and in fact actually available in a single volume),
but does anyone
know if the third one (titled, at least according to the Ken-
tucky Ham liner
notes, Prikitti Junction, though I'm not sure about the spell
ing) is
available? Burroughs Jr. possessed a
magnificent talent (my opinion),
it's a shame his
excesses blew it out so early.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:56:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs&Bukowski
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
liver
failure...he got liver transplant in
1976 and continued drinking. i thin
k he died in 1981
at the age of 34 or 35.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 17:01:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Richard Beban
<RBEBAN@DELPHI.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
> JoAnn Ruvoli
wrote:
> Kerouac thought of writing as a performance,
like a jazz musician who
> has only one
chance to perform a night, Kerouac wrote (performed)
> straight
through. You can't change or revise a improv jazz solo, and
> Kerouac
believed the same about writing.
Au
contraire. It's a wonderful, romantic
myth that Kerouac's writing sprang
full-blown,
first-draft, like Athena from the forehead of Zeus, but the man,
like all great
writers, was a craftsperson who revised his work. Writing is
rewriting.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 18:17:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Bukowski & the Beats
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95062911520612@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from "Win Mattingly" at
Jun 29, 95 11:05:19 am
On June 29 Win
Mattingly wrote:
> Also, what
about Bukowski? Again, not strictly a
beat but definitely some
con-
> nection. Does anybody know about any Bukowski lists?
I am curious how others square Bukowski
with the
Beats (or vice
versa). I'm thinking primarily of
Ginsberg.
Obviously
Bukowski & Ginsberg share markedly different
backgrounds--geographically,
economically, and politically.
And the two right
away took vastly different approaches toward
how to position
themselves in academic literary circles.
In
terms of the
poetry itself--and in terms of their shared
audiences--the
two are similar enough that I wonder why they
rarely overlap
(at least) when folks talk about contemporary
poetry.
Bukowski seemed to work so hard to
carve himself a
solitary
"outsider" position in literary circles that he left himself
no choice but to
distrust Beats for their popularity and assimilation
(as treacherous
as we all know assimilation can be).
Unfortunately, I
can't go to my books and look for Bukowski
references to
Beat writing, because I'm moving Saturday, and
all books are
packed away. I do remember, though, that
Neeli
Cherkovsky's
biography of Bukowski portrays him, at best, as
indifferent to
the Beats (again I'm thinking primarly of
Ginsberg). Even this indifference seemed a constructed
pose,
though, from what
I could gather in the rest of the (excellent)
biography, and
from Bukowski's poetry and fiction as a whole.
I'm curious about what others
think. The form and
content of
Bukowski's work shares Beat sensibilities to a certain
significant
extent, yet I've never seen the two camps meet
beyond
indifference.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony
Trigilio * "How do you know but ev'ry Bird
that
* cuts the airy way, / Is an immense world
* of delight, closed by your senses
five?"
atrigili@lynx.neu.edu * (William Blake)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:51:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Questad <questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
' Twas written:
>I just
discovered Vollman, myself!
I think I would
like to discover Vollman. Is he the same
William
Vollman who
recently wrote a feature in Spin magazine regarding the
Oklahoma bombing?
Jeff Questad
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 00:03:24 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Joyce Johnson
I came to Kerouac
when I was sixteen, which I guess is fairly normal.
That was 36 years
ago. My eldest son is 24, and starting
to straighten his
life out after a
few foolish episodes. Four or five years
ago he started to
take off for
weeks at a time --just bumming around.
Eventually, the light came
on. I said,
Have you been reading Kerouac?
He had, of course -- thought On
the Road was
wonderful and wanted to act it out.
Brought a lot of things back
to me. What I
really wanted to say, though, was: how many people out there
share my view
that Joyce Johnson could write the ass off the rest of them?
That, of that
whole crew of writers and poets (for whom I still feel an immense
kinship and
affection), she was the best of the lot?
But that, because she was
a woman, that
could not be recognised? the best of the lot?
But that, because
she was a woman,
that could not be recognised?
--
John Lynch
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 16:20:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Questad
<questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: My first time
I think this list
is going to be alot of fun. There are apparently alot
of young readers
maybe young writers here encountering Kerouac for the
first time and
perhaps finding the first literature that speaks to
them. Seems to be the most common theme, the
sweetness, honesty and
appeal of
Kerouac's novels for readers who have never been able to
relate to more
"academic" writing. Probably almost all of us who love
Kerouac feel
something more akin to love and fellowship than the kind
of respect you'll
later feel for Joyce, Shakespeare or Hemingway, say.
And I'd bet also
most of us read him young and may or may not have
continued to read
his books later. This is not to say he's
a kid's
writer. There is much that is serious and important
in Kerouac.
I think On The
Road may have been the first "real" novel I found on my
own, read on my
own, loved on my own, and would stand up for.
I was
probably 15, and
I think I'd read nothing but Sherlock Holmes stories
to that point.
The rest of that summer in Bandera, Texas I sought out
other Jack books
and read Dharma Bums, Dr Sax, Desolation Angels, and
Maggie Cassidy at
least. Maybe others.
Over the years my
literary opinion of Kerouac has wavered, but reading
some of these
posts reminds me of the first time books spoke to me.
Jeff Questad
Austin 6/29/95
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 18:27:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lisa Bonelli
<BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac Thesis
From: SMTP%"Postmaster@sonoma.edu" 28-JUN-1995
12:50:52.67
To: BONELLI
CC:
Subj: Undeliverable Mail
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:50:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Postmaster@sonoma.edu
Subject: Undeliverable Mail
To: <BONELLI>
Bad address --
<beat-l@cunyvm.edu>
Error -- Nameserver
error: Unknown host
Start of returned
message
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: BONELLI@sonoma.edu
To:
beat-l@cunyvm.edu
Message-Id:
<950628125049.2060084b@sonoma.edu>
Subject: Kerouac Thesis For Real
From: SMTP%"Postmaster@sonoma.edu"
28-JUN-1995 12:47:28.60
To:
BONELLI
CC:
Subj: Undeliverable Mail
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Postmaster@sonoma.edu
Subject:
Undeliverable Mail
To:
<BONELLI>
Bad address --
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.SONOMA.EDU>
Error -- Nameserver error: Unknown host
Start of returned message
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:47:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: BONELLI@sonoma.edu
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.edu
Message-Id: <950628124725.20601802@sonoma.edu>
Subject: Kerouac Thesis
I am really glad this list has started, as
I am in the planning stages
of my thesis, which will be on Jack
Kerouac. I spent several months
researching his work, and him (which are
hard to seperate, quite often) and
became hooked. I, too, am hooked into a
spiritual connection with the author
which is hard for me to comprehend: he is
often sexist and mostly a complete
ass to women, both in life and his writing.
Yet, I am haunted and intrigued
by the relationship he had with Neal
Cassady, allen, J. Clellon Holmes,
Burroughs and others. Also, the way he
turned against his peers/fellow
"Beats" towards the end of his
alcohol-induced delusionial life. I have
found just about all there is on Kerouac,
so I hope to find out more from
this list. . .keep me posted, and also
would like to hear from anyone
who has also done grad. work on Kerouac, or
who sees or is exploring the
connections between Whitman's "Leaves
of Grass" and Kerouac's "On the Road."
Dig it,
Lisa B
email me at: bonelli@sonoma.edu
End of returned message
End of returned
message
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 01:07:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
BEAT-L)
' Twas written:
>I just
discovered Vollman, myself!
Then this was
written:
>I think I
would like to discover Vollman. Is he
the same William
>Vollman who
recently wrote a feature in Spin magazine regarding >the
Oklahoma bombing?
Yep. He's a
contributing editor to Spin. He also wrote a piece on
voodoo (I think)
for the Spin Anniversary issue in April.
I missed that one
--boo hoo.
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 01:57:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Damion Doohan
<Damion001@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg quotation
>From the
interview with Allen Ginsberg in Magic Blend, July 1995:
Ginsberg:
"There was this explosion into a spoken poetry, which Kerouac
excelled at, and
that ignited interest in Bob Dylan, who said that Kerouac's
_Mexico City
Blues_ was the first American poetry book that really spoke to
him. I asked him why and he said, 'It's the only
book of poetry I ever read
that spoke in my
own language-- American rhythms and diction.'
This was a
conversation we
had at Kerouac's grave in Lowell, Massachusetts. So between
myself and
Kerouac and a few others who influenced Dylan, this caused the
whole explosion
of popular song."
Damion
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 01:57:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Damion Doohan
<Damion001@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg and NAMBLA
At the begining
of the recent Magical Blend interview by Tom McIntyre of
Allen Ginsberg it
says "The recent sale of his collected memorabilia to
Stanford
University became an explosive topic when the executive board of
that august
bastion of conservatism discovered his relationship with NAMBLA
(North American
Man Boy Love Association)." I knew
of Ginsberg's support of
NAMBLA but hadn't
heard that this was an "explosive" topic. What happened?
They bought the stuff anyway, right? So were there protests or something,
what form did the
explosion take?
Damion
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 06:38:08 -0400
Reply-To: au405@freenet.Buffalo.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Harold Boss
<au405@FREENET.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac
In the 7/28-29
list someone downplayed Kerouac's jazz-inspired
writing by
asserting that he was a craftsperson who revised his
work. This sent me running upstairs to look over an
issue of
the "Paris
Review" which had an articleabout the time Kerouac
submitted OTR for
publication. Naturally, I can't find it
right
now. I see that issue 40 (Winter-Spring 1966) is
missing.
Perhaps it was
that one. Who knows, itt's probably in
the
attic. I'll search it out sometime.
Anyway, if memory
serves me, Kerouac typed ONT in one night
in a mind-altered
state (I forget the substance). No
puncuation, no
nothing. Just one continuous paragraph
on one
of those long
computer papers.
He gave it to
Carl Solomon who was at Random House ( a
relative gave him
the job out of pity). Carl, apparently,
freaked out and
tried to put it into some sort of
traditional
apparence - like paragraphs and puncuation.
There was some
kind of prolonged fight about OTR's
final form, but
editor Solomon (who by the way, has
a few interesting
books of his own) sort of won out.
Craftsperson he
was. But he also knew how to blow a
riff.
The above is from
memory. And of something I read 30
years ago. It could be entirely screwed-up, but I do
remember being
terribly impressed.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 09:33:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Madeleine Charney
<m_charney@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU>
Subject: Re: My first time
It is interesting
how many people remember reading OTR during the
summer. Makes
sense; it tends to be the more carefree season. This
season also found
me, at 17, with book in hand.
I was teaching at
a summer camp that year. Clad in green suede sneakers
(year, 1980) and
large men's shirts, I was at that experimental age.
Open to anything
new.
Although I wasn't
in the place (didn't have the courage?) ti take
off and live a
life like Kerouac's, I did relate to what I read
by simply
sleeping outdoors every chance I got. Beside the lake,
in the dark, I
often thought "There's got to be more out there."
And now as an
adult I have the opportunity to explore that
moreness.
Thanks to all on
the list for stimulating that memory in me.
-Madeleine
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:54:40 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Douglas Jack - Tartan Warrior!
<jjack@MPC-UK.COM>
Subject: Re: My first time - really that
transcendent ?
In-Reply-To: <95063009334863@foma.wsc.mass.edu>;
from "Madeleine Charney" at
Jun 30, 95 9:33 am
I'm just about to go camping around
France for 2 weeks.(Work dictates etc.)
And, as a
long-time fan of Ginsberg, Corso, and many other 'Beat-affiliated'
writers(Vonnegut,
Whitman, Thoreaux, Blake, and so forth) I've been sweetly
impressed by the
strength of devotion to Kerouac's 'On the Road' on this
list. So, my
question is : should I get this and read it as I'm travelling/
relaxing? Or
should I stick to my original plan of blasting 'The Brothers
Karamazov' at
last?
Peace and bubbles,
JJ
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 10:00:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: The Ju-Jitsu Monkey (a story)
Ju-Jitsu Monkey
...the evening star must be
drooping and shedding
her sparkler dims on the prarie,
which is just
before the coming of complete
night that blesses the
earth, darkens all rivers, cups
the peaks and folds
the final shore in, and nobody,
nobody knows what's
going to happen to anybody
besides the forlorn rags
of growing old...
Jack Kerouac
I fell asleep against the gas station
wall, a sign reading
"West"
on my lap. Time that seemed snap-your-fingers quick zoomed
by, and I was
being shaken awake. I woke out of whatever world I'd
drifted into, and
felt I was re-enetering that world where folks
aren't supposed
to sleep against gas station walls. As I hit
atmosphere, I was
already collecting together my bags, my guitar,
and my sign,
figuring without being told that it was once again
"move
along" time. I started getting to my feet, and then focussed
on who it was
that had given me the shake.
"Hey, Pal, these guys are wondering
if you want a ride?"
The man who'd woke me was sort of leaning
over me, and his
voice and eyes
were matched with a child's laughing quality. This
was no child,
though.
His hair was grey and thin, and he had a
stomach that only
decades of
alcohol can produce. He had on an old flannel plaid
shirt, and worn-out
khaki pants, unlaced hiking boots, and no
socks. Standing
over me, he was as big as a cloud, but, like a
Russki circus
bear, no threat. This mountain was not about to
charge into the
gallery and maul the wide-eyed children, but was
getting ready for
the act where he wears the enormous ruffly collar
and rides around
the ring on a unicycle.
In his childeyes, there was a softness
that told the world
that all's fine.
He was standing over me, with his elbows resting
on his knees,
laughing.
"These guys are riding all the way to
Calgary! They're
wondering if you
want a ride!"
There was a red Ford pick-up pulled up at
the curb, with two
young kids in the
cab, waving to me.
"If you're riding, come on!"
they yelled.
"I've been riding with these guys since
Montreal," continued
my escort,
"and you aren't gonna find a sweeter passage."
I tossed my gear into the truck. We jumped
into the back, and
I heard my
travelling partner laugh as he saw my expression.
"These guys are hauling forty
sleeping bags to Calgary. All
they want us to
do is keep 'em weighted down!"
He pointed to a cooler, and I pulled out a
couple of beers.
I tossed one to
his side of the box, which he caught with a little
celebration's
flourish. The truck pulled back out onto TransCanada
1, and, yee-hah!,
we were on our way west.
"Without a doubt, Pal-- this is the
sweetest passage ever
existed!"
screamed the bear. Everything he said he screamed, and
everything he
screamed was joyous and innocent. Words flew out with
exclamation marks
tied on like kite tails.
I silently sang a hymn to our barelling
along, following the
sun. I'd been
spending too many months and years strapped to the
east, and now saw
north and south travel as wasted time. Greed-in-
motion had taken
over the entire seaboard, and varied only in
temperature along
the coast. Take your Hamptons and your
Lauderdales,
Bloomingdales, Kitty Hawks, and gawk at the gimme-
gimme-gimme as they
line each town's Fifth Av, rubbing big
overcoated
shoulders at the newstand and saying "Bill-- I didn't
see you at church
last Sunday" and other such nosebody nonsense.
Anyway, I'd
finally managed to cut the ropes with one more trip
north, for to
have missed Toronto and its Elizabeth Campbell in the
summer would have
been the wrong mistake. With that city put to
rest, and Liz put
on hold ("Of course I'll be writing!" I tell her
as I walk down
the lonely morning driveway-- having for some reason
refused a ride to
the interstate), I was ready to pull away from
the east. Fare
thee well to the Hudson and the Chesapeeque, fare
thee well,
Tarrytown and Northport and St. Albans and the countless
other burgs where
I'd been stuck alongside the shoulder, under the
overspasses
waiting for the rain to piss and pass, behind huge
signs with their
inscriptions (Been here too damn long, Bob From
Annapolis, June,
1968) and other such nonsense written down to
relieve the
frustration of the time weary hitch hiker and also
enough to make
the next bum along the way read the words and wail
in desperation's
misery, for the only way to hitch hike is to plan
it slow-mo, and
the only way to hitch hike is to party solo.
And now we were loose from it all,
breaking out to where there
was enough air
and space to look around and breathe it all in.
Heading west, and
there's nothing like the feeling in the whole
world, nothing
that's ever made me feel as free and wheee! as lying
back in that red
truck's bed on my own bed of delivery duckdown
sleeping bags,
taking a good, cool slug of the bear's beer and
watching the sun
pass over my head and forward, calling me out to
the plains and
Mississippi valley and lakes and rivers that I've
only known as
lines on maps. It was hello to a new world, and new
people, and rodeo
my rodeo.
Finally heading west. I wanted to scatter the ashes of
whatever the hell
it was that I was finally able to shake alongside
TransCanada 1,
where it could drift and blow in the jetstreams of
balling deisels,
deciding west or east of its own. As for me, I'd
cashed-in. I
looked over to the bear, who sat, looking back to
where we'd been,
with a cheesburg grin. He must have read my mind,
holding up his
beer can and shouting, "Fuck you, East Coast!" and
laughing loud
enough to get the rest of the world that cared to
join along with
him on the refrain.
"Fuck You, East Coast!" I
screamed with the bear, and we were
joined on the
third repeat by the kids in the cab, all of us
laughing as we
balled our way to the horizon, the edge of the
world, and the
waiting sun.
The bear, despite this salute and his joy,
was a silent
traveller. He sat
in the day's passing sun, reading tattered
paperbacks,
scribbling pencil notes in the margins, and smiling to
himself. All the
while I watched him, though, I thought to myself
why in the name
of god does a man his age find himself travelling
alone. I also had
a million other questions developing along the
lines of where ya
going, who you gonna see, and other such... but
all the time not
realizing that the reason he was here, rolling
west, was the
same reason I was doing the same. Rolling west in
need of getting
from as much as getting to, we were on identical
missions. The
afternoon was upon us, and we were pulling into
Kirkland Lake.
The two brothers in the cab were weary with their
travelling,
having pushed straight through from Montreal without
a good sleep, and
so we found a lake and a campspot.
After I helped Tim and Jim set up their
tent, the bear and I
moved to the far
side of the clearing, so as not to disturb the
boys. I took my
guitar out of the case, and the bear pulled a
bottle of whiskey
out of his suitcase. I'd been entertaining myself
with the guitar
for twenty years, and so had learned a lot of
different styles
and types of songs. The bear seemed to enjoy all
of it, though,
and had enough of a musical sense to beat out
rythyms in the twigs
and branches-- anticipating an ending 'tag'
line or finishing
roll with each song.
At one point I started goofing with a
sophomoric twelve-bar
blues pattern,
and the bear stood up on his traveller's whiskey
legs, and started
dancing under a canopy of low pine branches. The
branches hung so
close to the ground, that he had to stoop and bend
his knees in
order to continue his jungle jitterbug. I finished the
pattern off, and
the bear whooped and performed a satorical
backwards flip out
from the trees and back into our edge of the
clearing. I
rattled my head, trying to make sure I'd taken the
whole scene in.
The bear was in one look an ancient bum of a man,
a drunken
fellahin, down down down on his luck. In flashes, though,
he became tender,
vigorous, and exciting.
He flipped his way back to the spot where
we'd set up our
"camp".
I stared at him.
"What was all that about?" I
asked.
"Welll my boyyyy," he said,
mimicking W.C. Fields, "That was
called the ancient
dance of the ju-jitsuu monkeyyyy. It was taught
to me by an
artful dowager from Escondido.... she had a glass
eye...."
The bear took up his bottle and glugged a
slug. We looked at
each other and
howled at the setting sun.
I built a small fire, and the bear and I
sat staring at the
tiny flames,
poking and prodding the twigs and sticks in hopes of
disturbing some
unspoken vision. I'd told him about my years in
Africa, and he
prodded the pondered flames.
"I tried Africa," he said, no
longer in his vaudeville voice.
"Went to Morocco and Algiers,
freighted-over to see the same
damned gang that
I'd been following around over here. It was like
"Hey man! We
are wailing in Tangiers!", and alackadaddy, I was on
my way on some
Yugoslavian rust bucket. Mysterious women, daggers
in the
teeth..."
"Dawn donkeys pulling rolls of
newsprint," I added.
The bear looked over to me.
"Yeah, there was that and I remember
the solo voices calling
out great Ramadan
prayers-- you could feel the dust settle as every
living thing
stopped in silence."
"And then," I added, "Like
a big slap in world's face, the
moment is
passed-- the solar eclipse shadow pulls away..."
"And the world's turned upside down."
"And the world's turned upside
down," I echoed.
I slammed off to sleep, and had dreams of
the great unrolling
roads I'd done.
TransCanada 1, the Nairobi-Mombasa Highway, the
Nairobi-Addis
Ababa scratch in the desert earth, the New Jersey
Pennsylvania Ohio
Indiana Illinois Wisconsin Minnesota patrolled
tollways, the
lonesome Sahara stretch that busses sad loads of
dusty men and
goats from El Eskandria west to Alamein, Matruh,
Rahman, and on to
unknown Libya, and the corkscrew down spiral
roadway to the
bottom of the volcano world of the Rift Valley
floor. Down each
road and dream, the bear is walking at my side.
In the dawn, I stretched and shook off the
dew and any desire
to sleep further.
The boys were up, and sat around their own fire
with the bear,
cooking fish. I walked out from under the pine
branches to where
they sat in the smoke.
"You were having a good laugh and
hoot last night," said one
of the kids.
"Hey yes," I said, "I hope
it didn't disturb you guys too
much."
"Nah-- we slept like death,"
responded Tim.
"What were up to?" asked Jim.
I looked at the bear.
"An ancient ritual," I said.
"Ah, yesss..." said W.C. Fields,
"the dance of the woebegone
ju-jitsuu monkeyyyy..."
I stood up and tried to copy his funny
pine needle soft-shoe,
but had to give
it up. If I were a dancer, I might been able to
stay with
Elizabeth Campbell.
"Hey, bear," I called over to
him, "why not show these guys
that crazy
dance?"
I looked over to where he'd been sitting,
but the bear was
gone.
The two Calgary kids were staring at me,
slowly chewing their
fish.
There had been no one.
The boys said nothing, looking down at
their farm boots like
children being
given instructions. They were stuck with a me -- a
harmless lunatic.
We loaded the gear back into the truck,
and took off from
Kirkland Lake. We
blasted through Timmons and Iroquois Falls and
Cochrane. We had
days and days to go before getting to Calgary--
in fact, when I
looked at a map I ached on seeing that our real
direction had
been pretty much north since I'd loaded into the
truck.
"Damn," I said softly, "I
gotta get west!"
I'd read On The Road in 1970, after Jack
had died. Ever since
that warm Nairobi
day, though, when I turned the last page as Sal
vanishes around
the city corner and the world says goodbye to
forlorn
Dean/Cody/Neal, and the children are sleeping and that
blanket which has
held so much road and so many people and so much
narrative is once
again shook out and cleaned for the next 'bo to
fill up and
trample across and sleep in... ever since that day I've
been waiting at
the world's shoulders and entrance ramps, sleeping
in ditches,
running, hiding from the midnight cruise lights of
protective
patrols, and waiting waiting waiting for that time when
for some unknown
reason his spirit would drift down from the
celeste, as would
one of St. Theresa's petals, and find me on that
road heading
north to head west.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:01:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVIS ALAN
<davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <950629070026_104654329@aol.com>
Francis Ford
Coppola is currently auditioning for ON THE ROAD. Do you
all think he's
the right director? At any rate, he's
doing it. My guess
is, the movie
will reduce the book to a text instead of a bible. Al
On Thu, 29 Jun
1995, Gene Simakowicz wrote:
> Wow!
> I just
signed on the list a few days ago also. It's great to be here. As for
> the Kerouac
reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is probably the Bible. How
> about a
question to kick off some newsgroup discussion?
>
> Do you think
On The Road would make a good movie?
> If so, whom
would you cast in the two main roles?
>
> Gene
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:46:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Willard Goodwin
<wgoodwin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Thesis
Comments: To:
BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU
Lisa Bonelli
wrote:
> I am really glad this list has started, as
I am in the planning stages
> of my thesis, which will be on Jack
Kerouac. I spent several months
> researching his work, and him (which are
hard to seperate, quite
>often) ...I
have
> found just about all there is on Kerouac,
so I hope to find out more from
> this
list. . .keep me posted, and also would like to hear from anyone
> who has also done grad. work on Kerouac ...
Lisa: At the risk
of duplicating what you already know, I list here seven
works about
Kerouac (books and dissertations based on research in the
manuscript
collections at the Humanities Research Center, University of
Texas at Austin).
Of course, there's much more (including more recent
stuff), but since
these titles are ready to hand, I thought you might like
to see the list.
Best wishes, Will.
Cassady, Carolyn.
Heart Beat: My Life With Jack and Neal. Berkeley:
Creative Arts
Book Co., 1976.
Charters, Ann.
Kerouac: a Biography. London: Andre Deutsch, 1973.
Gifford, Barry,
and Lawrence Lee. Jack's Book: an Oral Biography of Jack
Kerouac. New
York: St. Martin's Press, 1978.
Hudson, Lee. Beat
Generation Poetics and the Oral Tradition of Literature.
Doctoral diss.,
University of Texas at Austin, 1973.
Hunt, Timothy
Arthur. Off the Novel: the Literary Maturation of Jack
Kerouac. Doctoral
diss., Cornell University, 1975.
McNally, Dennis
S. Desolate Angel, a Biography: Jack Kerouac, the Beat
Generation, and
America. New York: Random House, 1979.
Tytell, John.
Naked Angels: the Lives and Literature of the Beat
Generation. New
York: McGraw-Hill, 1976.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 23:33:49 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9506301457.C29692-0100000@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
(message from DAVIS ALAN on Fri,
30 Jun 1995 14:01:43 -0500)
From: DAVIS ALAN
<davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
> Francis Ford
Coppola is currently auditioning for ON THE ROAD. Do you all
> think he's
the right director?
Who would you
like? I can't think of anybody better
than Coppola.
I wonder how well
they can cast Dean Moriarty. That's
essential. I can't
think of any name
actor that can do it.
> My guess is,
the movie will reduce the book to a text instead of a bible.
I got news for
you, kid. It already is a text.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 13:32:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Thesis
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
don't forget
nicosia joyce johnson and carolyn cassady's off the road.
there's also a
book by a professor and the univ of lowell who befriended kerouac
in the late sixties - i forget his name. interesting book/look at e period
in k's life that
most gloss over because it's so depressing.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:01:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas DeRosa
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac movie
latest rumors
i've heard from levi asher (literary kicks, web page) is
that coppola is
directing it, not gus van sant. another rumor is that
dean will be
played by sean penn and sal will be brad pitt. all this is
rumor so you
didn't hear it from me. check out lit. kicks beat news for
more info than i
can remember.
i just subscribed
to this list yesterday and i must say i am impressed.
its so great to
find others who are into the beats. five years ago i
really had to
search for their books, now they're all over. should we
send the gap a
thank you note?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 20:07:03 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Morrow
<MORROW@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject: Previous Kerouac Movie?
About 5 years
ago, a local theatre was showing a film
about Kerouac. I
never did see it and can't remember
whether it was a
documentary or a dramatic portrayal of
his life. I also
can't remember the title.
Does anyone out
there remember the title of this movie
and, if you saw
it, what it was like?
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 21:56:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Aaron Hill <adhill@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac thesis
Howdy,
I don't know if this is your angle or
not, but I did some work on
Kerouac's family,
and their influence on him. I found that
his ties to his
mother (whom he
referred to as 'ma mere'), his sister, and catholicism were
at least as
profound as those to his friends.
Unfortunately for Jack,
these two groups
didn't seem to mingle too well and I imagine that this
strained his
relationship to both. Oh, don't forget
that his family was
French-Canadian
and that he didn't speak English until he was 4 or 5. I
read a biography
of Kerouac by a French-Canadian author (whose name I can't
remember right
now) which explored this aspect of his life in detail. If
you're
interested, I can look it up.
Aaron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 22:01:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Eric Trondson-Clinger
<tronson@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
>About 5 years
ago, a local theatre was showing a film
>about
Kerouac. I never did see it and can't remember
>whether it
was a documentary or a dramatic portrayal of
>his life. I
also can't remember the title.
>
>Does anyone
out there remember the title of this movie
>and, if you
saw it, what it was like?
There was a
documentary called just "Kerouac" I believe and Carolyn
Cassady's
"Heartbeat" was also made into a move in about 1976 with Nick
Nolte. Haven't
seen either of 'em tho...
Submit gloried prose-pics-poetry to the
beautiful mag-book-zine Holyboy Road
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Trondson-Clinger Holyboy Road Home
Page
tronson@primenet.com
http://www.primenet.com/~tronson/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Was it nice, Jack?" - "All
women are nice." Larry Smith and
Jack
Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 00:54:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mike H. from Md."
<mikeh@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Re: My first time
In-Reply-To: <95063009334863@foma.wsc.mass.edu>
On Fri, 30 Jun
1995, Madeleine Charney wrote:
> It is
interesting how many people remember reading OTR during the
> summer.
Makes sense; it tends to be the more carefree season. This
> season also
found me, at 17, with book in hand.
>
> I was
teaching at a summer camp that year. Clad in green suede sneakers
> (year, 1980)
and large men's shirts, I was at that experimental age.
> Open to
anything new.
Damn!
At the age when I should have been reading Kerouac, I was
reading the
classics that everyone else was avoiding!
Now, years later.
I'm just starting
to catch up!
Thanks for all the comments. If I'd had some of this stimulating
conversation, I
would have gotten into Kerouac years ago!
Mike, Lurking in
Md.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 01:05:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas DeRosa
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
i have seen the
movie in question, "kerouac". in fact i just got it
yesterday. i
ordered it from mystic fire video, via e-mail from their
web page. it's a
pretty good movie, the best part being the scene from
the steve allen
show where jack read from visions of cody and the last
page of on the
road. i've heard him on tape but had never seen him on
film. it was
really something. try to find it at a rental place, mystic
fire charged me
thirty bucks. for me though, it was well worth it. god
i sound like a
commercial don't i? sorry.
as always,
das beatnik7
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 09:35:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
In-Reply-To:
<199507010805.BAA03010@ix5.ix.netcom.com>
_Visions of Cody_
It took me three
months, but I think it is Kerouac's finest work. I read
it only after
having read everything else of his, including _Pic_.
Michael Bertsch
Athena University
VOU, Inc.
http://www.iac.net/~billp/
Virtual Campus:
telnet brazos.iac.net 8888
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 11:59:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
We should change
this thread to "VoC - Kerouac's finest book". I too am a
steadfast VoC
partisan - THAT is the novel I'm always foisting on others -
especially them
who disliked OtR.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:18:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
At a conference
last weekend, I played with the nearly-fianl version of
Penguin's new
CD-ROM, the Jack Kerouac Romnibus. It's mind-blowing. It
contains an
annotated version of the Dharma Bums, clips of Kerouac reading
(including the
Steve Allen show mentioned here), clips of Charlie Parker
playing, a kind
of family tree of Kerouac and his links with all the Beat
writers, and
amazing reproductions of Kerouac's artwork from his estate that
I never knew even
existed. Final version is due out in early Fall, priced
around $40.00
(but of course I gotta go buy a CD-ROM first).
Nick W-W
>i have seen
the movie in question, "kerouac". in fact i just got it
>yesterday. i
ordered it from mystic fire video, via e-mail from their
>web page.
it's a pretty good movie, the best part being the scene from
>the steve
allen show where jack read from visions of cody and the last
>page of on
the road. i've heard him on tape but had never seen him on
>film. it was
really something. try to find it at a rental place, mystic
>fire charged
me thirty bucks. for me though, it was well worth it. god
>i sound like
a commercial don't i? sorry.
>as always,
>
>das beatnik7
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 23:54:24 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
In-Reply-To:
<199507032013.AA128292395@lulu.acns.nwu.edu> (message from Nick
Weir-Williams on Mon, 3 Jul 1995
15:18:25 -0500)
> From: Nick
Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
> At a
conference last weekend, I played with the nearly-final version of
> Penguin's
new CD-ROM, the Jack Kerouac Romnibus ... It contains an annotated
> version of
the Dharma Bums,
On paper?
> ... and
amazing reproductions of Kerouac's artwork from his estate that I
> never knew
even existed.
What? Well come on, man, don't keep us in
suspense. What is it like? Is it
just Dr Sax
cartoons? When did he do it?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:49:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: kerouac and snyder
hello all--
with regards to
books written by kerouac: how do the
participants on this
list feel about
_dharma bums_?
and on a more
practical and personal note, i am doing a paper on
gary snyder
(japhy in _d.b._) and his visionary mix of buddhism
and amerindian
lore (i.e. shamanism etc.) to forge a 'philosophy'
in which place is
very important (having 'roots') but not
dependent on
nationality. i'd welcome any input or
suggestions!
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 00:32:37 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
In-Reply-To: <950703154956.5296@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
(message from THE WORLD IS ITS
OWN MAGIC on Mon, 3 Jul 1995
15:49:56 -0500)
> From: THE
WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC <952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
> with regards
to books written by kerouac: how do the participants on this
> list feel
about _dharma bums_?
This was the
second Kerouac book I read (after OTR) and I was expecting
something
similar, which is probably why I didn't like it much. It had its
moments,
though. It is not nearly as exciting as
OTR, and over the years I've
never gone back
to reread it. But thinking about it now
it doesn't seem so
bad, and its
description of the west coast poetry scene was very interesting.
I'd like to go
back and check this one out again...
Ginsberg also is
down on this book, I think he thought it was too commercial
and that the
writing was not Jack's best. Perhaps
someone else can recall for
us exactly what
he said about it. But I for one have
always been a bit
mystified by
Ginsberg's estimations of Jack's books -- if I recall he was very
keen on Visions
of Cody, which I find long, boring and impenetrable -- and
this is coming
from someone with a healthy tolerance for Jack's notorious
self-indulgence.
VoC is not a
novel, it's more like a weird kind of reference book...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:57:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
In-Reply-To: <950703154956.5296@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Regarding
Snyder--
It would be best,
in my opinion, to approach Snyder through the Native
American sense of
place coupled with Basho's reverence for place.
You
can look to
Snyder books like _Turtle Island_ and his translations of
Japanese
Haiku. The bridge image is Japhy jumping
from boulder to
boulder dressed
only in a jock strap. You might recall
the Japanese
'fundoshi', the
sild deaper-like garment now worn by Sumo wrestlers, but
which has a long
and glorious tradition in the Samurai culture.
Michael Bertsch
On Mon, 3 Jul
1995, THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC wrote:
> hello all--
>
> with regards
to books written by kerouac: how do the
participants on this
> list feel
about _dharma bums_?
>
> and on a
more practical and personal note, i am doing a paper on
> gary snyder
(japhy in _d.b._) and his visionary mix of buddhism
> and
amerindian lore (i.e. shamanism etc.) to forge a 'philosophy'
> in which
place is very important (having 'roots') but not
> dependent on
nationality. i'd welcome any input or
suggestions!
>
> claudia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:59:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
Comments: To:
Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<9507032132.AA37502@rs580a.haifa.ibm.com>
Josheph Rodriguez
is right--VoC is not a novel, but he is also wrong: it
is more a poem
than a reference book.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 21:52:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
i agree that
_dharma bums_ probably lacks the 'magic' (if that's the
right word) that
_on the road_ possesses. from a
zen/buddhist
perspective, i
think, it illustrates the tension between
studying zen and
living zen and it raises the question to which
extent the dharma
bums actually did understand the dharma
(clearly, there's
more to zen than yabyums)-- but that's the
old scholar vs.
practitioner debate that the folks on buddha-l
have recently
fought (yet again).
what interests me
in synder is his encompassing approach to myth
(i.e. the images
he draws out of shamanic rituals and buddhist
philosophy). place figures very importantly in his poetry
and
essays, but only
as sort of a 'triggering town' (to borrow
richard hugo's
phrase). and then there is, of course,
the
place of the
mind--the back country--to which one must go and
return from to
effect change in one's self and one's society.
i wonder if
snyder's, at times, mythic/mystic sense of
community,
interconnectedness, transcendental awareness
speaks to the
readers on this list. if yes, how? if no,
why not?
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 11:26:22 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
> At a
conference last weekend, I played with the nearly-fianl version of
> Penguin's
new CD-ROM, the Jack Kerouac Romnibus. It's mind-blowing. It
> contains an
annotated version of the Dharma Bums, clips of Kerouac reading
> (including
the Steve Allen show mentioned here), clips of Charlie Parker
> playing, a
kind of family tree of Kerouac and his links with all the Beat
> writers, and
amazing reproductions of Kerouac's artwork from his estate that
> I never knew
even existed. Final version is due out in early Fall, priced
> around
$40.00 (but of course I gotta go buy a CD-ROM first).
>
Where will I be
able to get a copy?
--
John Lynch
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 07:31:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: A Jack Kerouac ROMnibus
In-Reply-To: <35295@ldta.demon.co.uk>
For full details
of this, check:
http://www.penguin.com/usa/electronic/titles/kerouac/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 23:51:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire 362 7134 <mmaguire@OSM.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Snyder
Joseph Rodrigue
wrote re _Dharma Bums_:
> Ginsberg
also is down on this book, I think he thought it was too commercial
> and that the
writing was not Jack's best. Perhaps
someone else can recall for
> us exactly
what he said about it.
I enjoyed _Dharma
Bums_ very much and appreciated it even more once I had
read the Ginsberg
biography by Barry Miles, in which many of the _Dharma
Bums_ events are
retold using the characters' real names.
Ginsberg, after
reading an advance copy of D.B., wrote the following to
Jack:
"The whole
thing's a great piece of religion testament book, strange thing
to be published.
. . . You settling down in simpler prose, or just tired
like you said?
Montgomery is great in there, and Gary is fine too. I
don't dig myself
(too inconsistent mentally)(in the arguments). It is a
big teaching book
which is rare and spooky."
Barry Miles goes
on to say that, although Ginsberg "didn't regard the book
as up to Kerouac's
usual standard, this didn't stop him from promoting it
for all he was
worth".
_____________________________________________________________________
Mary Maguire
mmaguire@osm.utoronto.ca Toronto, Canada
"... a hum
came suddenly into his head, which seemed to him
a Good Hum, such
as is Hummed Hopefully to Others."
_____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:52:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder and pigeonholes
Claudia writes:
>i wonder if
snyder's, at times, mythic/mystic sense of
>community,
interconnectedness, transcendental awareness
>speaks to
readers on this list.
claudia
I'm curious also. Having heard him in San Francisco
before we both
went to Japan (for different reasons),
and
then again at an
ecology conference in Kansas in the seventies,
and as a
distinguished voice from the past giving a reading
in the eighties,
I am aware that he and his thought and writing
have changed over
the years - as they have changed me.
I think he has managed to break out of the
pigeonhole that
controls and
strangles the "beats" = their return to popularity
is in many ways,
I think, a way of keeping them and the spirit
they represented
at the time under control. True
followers of
the beats would I
feel follow their spirit, and not simply
worship them as
if from a faraway time.
Tom Bell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 10:18:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: ....
As a product of
"institutionalized education" I have always done what was
expected of
me. I regurgitated grammar and wrote
what my
instructor wanted
to hear; in a form that he/she approved
of, with proper
punctuation, of course...etc, I'm sure you have the idea.
Kerouac goes
against all that brainwashing and blind obedience. He has
given me one of
the greatest gifts I've ever gotten from an author...the
courage to go
against what others want to hear and to listen to my instincts,
at least when it
comes to my personal writing. The stuff
I churn out on paper
I don't reveal to
anyone...but to feel the freedom and to let go of the
control has been
the best thing I have ever done for me.
Thanks Jack.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 11:48:16 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Re: ....
Regarding Kristen
VanRiper's observations on the liberating effect reading
Kerouac has had
on her prose style, I think we can carry things too far
sometimes. Let's
not forget that when Kerouac began his experiments with
spontaneous
prose, he had already written a million words and mastered the
more traditional
styles of prose composition. He wasn't
jettisoning what
had gone before,
he used it as the point of departure for his forays into
new modes of
expression. This issue reminds me of the message we had last
week wherein a
list participant asked whether we though he should spend
his summer
reading the classics or reading Kerouac. My answer, like I
think Jack's
would be, is "read the classics if you haven't read them."
Kerouac certainly
did. He was conversant in the works of all the great
masters of
literature, even if he didn't emulate them in his own work.
Kerouac would
frequently hide out in one place or another with armloads
of what is
considered "great literature" not because he wanted to put
his mind in some
jail, but because as an artist he needed to know what
had come before.
Much has been made of the jazz nexus in Kerouac's work,
and he clearly
was trying to recreate the natural rhythms and expressions
found in the
music of Charlie Parker and others. But don't forget that the
great jazzmen
were (and still are) the consummate masters of their
instruments.
Miles Davis could soar into rapturous flights of inspiration
only because he
had honed his skills to the point where intention and
expression were
one mind-body event. So, if you don't know how to punc-
tuate a sentence,
don't expect to write like Kerouac. If you haven't
read Celine,
Blake, Milton and Shakespeare, don't expect to achieve
Jack's
depth. If you're not the master of your
craft, don't be sur-
prised if your
prose is pedestrian. Jack's way is not the lazy,
undisciplined way
- that was the insult his critics threw at him.
Recognize the
rigor behind the rapture.
Just my thoughts. Not intended as a flame of anyone's POV. Thanks
for reading!
Mark Gordon
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 14:57:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Are You On Our Mailing List?
Our mail-order
catalogue is filled with the best from Beat writers: Kerouac -
Ginsberg -
Burroughs - Corso - Whalen - McClure, many others. Nice used
copies, scarce
first editions, recordings, videos, posters, T-shirts, etc.
Thousands of Beat
items in stock. Lots of Bukowski too. If you'd like to be
placed on our
mailing list, please send your snail-mail address. It's free.
Satisfaction
guaranteed. Free Search Service too.
Cisco Harland
Water Row Books
PO Box 438
Sudbury MA 01776
Tel 508-485-8515
Fax 508-229-0885
e-mail
waterrow@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 19:35:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tom Peyer <TPeyer@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
Tom Peyer
11005 SW 88th
Street #C-107
Miami FL 3376
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:41:16 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Brian Lynch
<Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: summary
Friends of
Beat-L,
I'm going to post this directly to the
list, since my "replies" to other
postings don't
seem to have made it. The volume of
postings is getting hard
to keep up with,
so if you're only scanning to find "new" contributions you'll
want to quickly
delete this and move on. What I wanted
to contribute was a
partial summary
of postings to date.
There has been an explosion of activity on
this list in the past two
weeks, after a
relatively small amount of activity when it first started. The
first postings
that I remember had to do with the rumored film of OTR, rumored
to be directed by
Coppola, who was rumored to be casting Sean Penn as Moriarty
and Brad Pitt as
Sal (or it may have been the other way around).
Discussion
about the casting
proposed other Hollywood stars (after noting that K.
himself, back
then, proposed Brando as Moriarty and Monty Clift as Sal) for
the lead
roles--Gary Oldman (Moriarty), Johnny Depp (Sal), etc. A friend of
mine who has
written a wonderful novel which conjures up some images of Neil
Cassady exploded
over the casting and said the people who should be playing
those parts are
in the coffee shops and road hangouts, not in Hollywood
agents' offices.
Another recent topic of interest seems to
be "that movie" about Kerouac.
The one I
remember was called "What Ever Happened to Jack Kerouac?"--an
excellent video
documentary that included the classic film clip of Jack
reading from OTR
while Steve Allen improvised jazz on his piano.
The topic of K's writing habits--was OTR
produced in one (benzedrine
tended to be a
stimulant of choice at the time) mind-altered session, or was
it the product of
careful redrafting? I've primarily heard
the written in one
session
version--although it was probably not done on "computer paper rolls"
(as one friend
suggested), since pc's weren't on the scene at that point. I
have read that he
had some sort of continuous roll of paper that it was
produced on,
though (or maybe I "heard" that--the ongoing oral history of the
Beats). The jazz improvisation, stream of
consciousness was definitely an
important part of
his writing. As a related
thread--Kerouac the poet vs.
Kerouac the
novelist: we've been reminded of Mexico City Blues as an important
part of his work
(and one that the person who had arrived at reading Kerouac
after being
primarily interested in poetry should check out).
Another interesting thread has been the
Zen connection to the Beats
(critical appraisal's
of Dharma Bums; Gary Snyder's work), and through it some
important
observations and challenges concerning the way we perceive "the
Beats"--as a
historical period or a way of being/frame of mind and spirit that
continues (maybe
both). A related interlinear has been
the occasional
surfacing of
"critical theory" discourse on the importance of Beat literature
in relation to
the "classics"--which aspects of the Beat voice speak to whom
and why.
The "my first time" (reading OTR)
thread has produced some remarkably
poignant
vignettes--I'd like to try to put them together and make the
collection
available to the list.
Finally, one of the things that I value most
about the discussion on this
list has been the
developing sense of the people who are
contributing--Kristen,
Claudia, "jrodriguez" (identified from the email
address), and
Mark Gordon (who posted some of the earlier messages that got
the list going
and has contributed some valuable insights from a writer's
perspective). Thanks to all of you for enriching the List.
Keep that level of thought and feeling!
Brian
Melbourne,
Australia (via Denver, Berkeley, and LA)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 21:49:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
i think _db_ was
one of those books that had to written (ala j. buffett's
line, "if i
can only get it on paper, i can make sense of it all).
but then, all
books *have* to written; there needs to be some kind
of urgency. and i think it reads best as an insight on
how kerouac
struggled with
his understanding of zen and its essence.
in that respect
it reminds me of
_zen and the art of motorcyle maintenance_.
as to ginsberg's
promotion of the book in spite of his reservations
about the
relative literary merits . . . ginsberg
is a top notch
marketing expert
. . . i think about his efforts with
Naropa Institute.
that was/is sheer
genius.
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 22:09:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
>i think _db_
was one of those books that had to written (ala j. buffett's
>line,
"if i can only get it on paper, i can make sense of it all).
>but then, all
books *have* to written; there needs to be some kind
>of
urgency. and i think it reads best as an
insight on how kerouac
>struggled
with his understanding of zen and its essence.
in that respect
>it reminds me
of _zen and the art of motorcyle maintenance_.
>
>as to
ginsberg's promotion of the book in spite of his reservations
>about the
relative literary merits . . . ginsberg
is a top notch
>marketing
expert . . . i think about his efforts
with Naropa Institute.
>that was/is
sheer genius.
>
>claudia
I was just
reading in Tom Clark's biography of kerouac that he complained
that the editor
(malcolm Cowly, I think) edited out all the catholic parts.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 02:08:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tom Peyer <TPeyer@AOL.COM>
Subject: Crank Beat-L mail; do not open if you'll
be charged.
Sorry to dump all
of this extra mail on you all...
First, there was
the letter composed only of my name and street address,
which I intended
to send only to the people who solicited the beat literature
catalog...
And now this
pitiful follow-up, which asks only that you please don't show up
on my doorstep.
Your pal,
Tom Peyer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 06:36:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
timothy--
i haven't read
clark's bio of kerouac (yet). what did
kerouac say
about the
catholic parts being edited out of _db_ by cowley? what sort
of things had
kerouac included? it seems to me that
catholic myth/ritual
etc. would have
given the book a broader range or greater depth
(in the joe
campbell sense of comparative mythologies).
most
interesting. hm. .
. .
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 09:33:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: zen
Seeing postings
about Kerouac and Zen made me realize a sense that I have
gotten from the
little I have read by him. In _Visions
of Gerard_,
Jack wrote about
his Catholic upbringing and his sainted brother.
His exaggerated
glorification of Christian ways and Christian people shows
how this way of
life, this Catholicism, ultimately absorbs the present and
focuses only on
that which may or may not happen in the future.
I think it
was his first
realization of the "denial of life" and the obsession with an
"afterlife"
that people get sucked into...it's what probably gave him the
urge to go on the
road...not wanting to be stuck worrying about what would
happen when he
died...wanting to be alive.
Regarding the
emoting I did yesterday, :), I just want to elaborate...
Jazz is a
feeling, true, but there are progressions that one must
learn. Not all feelings make sense or are expressed
in a way that others
might understand
unless they are clarified. A truly great
jazz artist is
one that develops
these skills over time...and I do believe that
improvisation is
a developed art form. I only wrote that
blurb because I
have always had a
hard time transferring emotion to my fingers (in music
and writing) and
since I've been reading Kerouac, and other authors that
I have neglected
for some time, I've been able to express myself. I was
merely basking in
the freedom I have found. :) Take it easy.
Kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 09:37:43 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Some thoughts on Kerouac's
"method"
Hi. I'm coming
out of lurk-only mode to comment on a couple of recent posts
I think may
indicate a lack of understanding of Jack and his grounding in
classic
literature and compositional styles. THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS A FLAME
OF ANYONE. I'd
rather disconnect my internet access than get into a war of
words. I just think that we fans of Kerouac can very
often fall into the trap
of unknowingly
siding with those who criticized him so viciously during his
lifetime. The two posts I refer to are Kristen's recent
comment on how reading
Jack has
liberated her own prose style from the prison of conventional grammar
and punctuation,
and an anonymous post wherein the writer asked whether we
thought he should
spend his summer reading the classics or not. I think those of
us who love
Jack's work should remember that he was solidly grounded in both
the canon of
classic literature and conventional prose composition. Let's not
forget that he
had already written a million words by the time he began experime
nting with his
spontaneous method. Rather than simply jettisoning what had gone
before, Kerouac
used it as a point of departure for his forays into new modes
of expression.
When , in Kerouac's name, we reject out of hand the conventions
ofEnglish composition, we run the risk of
making the case for Jack's critics
who
accused him of
being lazy and undisciplined. Jack had already mastered standard
composition when
he wrote OTR. If you haven't mastered it, don't expect to
emulate him. A
useful parallel for this is jazz, the source of so much of
Jack's
inspiration. Charlie Parker, the father
of bop, was a consummate
musician. Before he could soar into flights of
rapturous ecstacy, he had to
spend years
mastering the rudiments of his instrument and his art. If you were
to ask Charlie
Parker to play a Bach fugue, he could do it, though perhaps he'd
prefer not to.
Whether it's Jack or Bird, take care to see and hear the rigor
behind the
rapture. In the same vein, let's remember that Jack was intimately
familiar with the
grat classics of literature. He had read
everything from S
Shakespeare to
Milton to Celine to Hemingway. Certainly he didn't like it all,
and he clearly
didn't emulate it all, but he knew it, and that knowledge gave
a depth to his
own work that resonates throughout the Duluoz Legend. In my
own opinion, if
you are sitting down to read Kerouac but haven't read Wolfe,
Faulkner or
Celine, read them first. Jack did. Again, the charge of his critics
was that his work
stood alone, outside the mainstream of American letters, and
that this was
chiefly becase the author himself didn't display a familiarity
with the past. Those
critics were wrong about Jack. Let's not make them right
about us. Thanks for reading. Sorry for the length. Peace to all.
Mark Gordon
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 08:46:11 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Jul 1995 21:49:24 -0500
from
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Dharma Bums was
the first book that really "hooked" me on Kerouac. The
magic of the hitchhiker
and his rucksack, the fabulous opening sequence with
the midnight
ghost and the old bum who prayed to Saint Theresa of the Flowers,
and the
descriptions of mountain climbing and S.F. poetry renaissance (Howl be-
comes Wail, and
of course it is K. who takes up the collection for bottles of
wine), were
enough to prompt me at the age of fifteen to get an old duffle bag
and leave what
really was (through my now adult eyes) an intolerable home situ-
ation. He taught me to hang out my thumb and trust
my instincts, even gave me
a spirituality
(zen) to combat the influence of, ironically, a strict catholic
upbringing. For these I'll always be grateful to Dharma
Bums. Still, now that
I'm older and
have reread most of Kerouac's work several times, I believe
On the Road has
far more literary merit. I still enjoy
Dharma Bums (and find
something more to
like about it every time I read it), but the rhythm and ener-
gy of On the Road
are unlike book written before or since, stylistically it is
unique in
American literature. In On the Road
Kerouac pinned down what it is
to be young and
American (and male?). Distance becomes a
metaphor for possi-
bility (check out
Tom Waits' medley Ballad of Neal and Jack/California Here I
Come for a feel
for what I mean). Regarding Dharma Bums,
I read a quote from
Kerouac somewhere
(Jack's Book?) where he said D.B. was written to allow him to
keep the cupboard
full of tins of meat for the cat and jugs of wine, or some-
thing to that
effect. While I'm not that cynical (and
K. may have said this
later in his life
when he was dour about just about everything), I do think
that D.B. is less
ground-breaking literature than a good story.
Hell, most
writers are lucky
if they can pull even that off.
I'd like to hear some discussion of The
Subterraneans. In my opinion that
book, for all the
sexist and racist implications academics will find in it,
reads more like
poetry than any other novel K. wrote and represents his spon-
taneaous prose
concepts taken as far as he ever took them.
Win Mattingly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:13:07 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Double Posting
I think I've
posted a couple of long messages to the list in the last
couple of days,
but I can't be sure because they're not coming to me.
Sorry if I've
chewed up anybody's bandwidth. Could
someone email me
and let me know
whether these messages are getting to all of the other
list recipients
or not? Thanks.
Mark
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:37:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: The Desolation Angels
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of THU 06 JUL 1995
08:46:11 EDT
I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained
material
originally hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript. I
would love to see
a release of _that_ manuscript... when TS Eliot's
Wasteland
manuscript was published, I was really drawn in by the notes,
comments, and
corrections supplied by Pound, Eliot, and others.
Imagine marketing
the teletype manuscript as just that, a roll of paper
(instead of a
bound book).
Does anyone know
whether the roll still exists? If so, where is it
housed?
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 08:48:58 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Johnson
<johnsorl@COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Double Posting
Comments: To:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
In-Reply-To:
<199507061413.AA18291@osfn.rhilinet.gov>
Yes, your messages have appeared. Some
list groups do not post
messages back to the sender. Just cc
your postings back to yourself
then you can be sure of their arrival
to the list at large.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 18:02:56 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: OTR teletype roll
In-Reply-To: <06JUL95.11471647.0015.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
(JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU)
> From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
> I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained material
> originally
hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript ... Does anyone
> know whether
the roll still exists? If so, where is
it housed?
I read a passage
from the roll once ... it was quite different from OTR as
published. I can't believe no one has tried to squeeze
money out of
publishing the
original roll. It would be fascinating
reading.
As for the person
who was talking the other day about Kerouac never revising
-- get in touch
with me. I've got a bridge for you.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:05:17 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
My understanding
is that Kerouac typed OTR on narrow rolls of Japanese
wallpaper, double
length, which he then taped together to form one
continuous
surface. I think that comes from Nicosia's book, or perhaps
Tytell's. I seem
to remember also that the rolls were lost or destroyed
when turned in to
the publisher for transcription and editing. Then again,
I could be
wrong. Thanks for letting me know about
the double posting.
I think I've got
the hang of the routine now.
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:32:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Subterraneans
To my shame, I
only just read 'The Subterraneans'. It is different, and, I
agree, as lyrical
and as close to a love story as I think he ever wrote. I
collect old
Kerouac paperbacks for the covers as much as anything else (does
anyone else do
this, incidentally - you can find some wonderful things in
second-hand
bookstores) and The Subterranenans edition I read, I was too
ashamed to read
on the Chicago 'L' going to work - clearly being sold in the
70's with a cover
both sexist and racist. But the book is a love affair,
really, told in
one breath.
Re Ginsberg: he
may have claimed not to have liked -DB- but he was happy to
read it on audio
(released in the last few years) and take the money...
> I'd like to hear some discussion of The
Subterraneans. In my opinion that
>book, for all
the sexist and racist implications academics will find in it,
>reads more
like poetry than any other novel K. wrote and represents his spon-
>taneaous
prose concepts taken as far as he ever took them.
>
Win Mattingly
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:59:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
rumor has it
that:
The OTR teletype
roll is presently on deposit at the New York Public Library.
Previous to its
move there recently, it sat
in the safe at
lit agent Sterling Lord's office.
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 19:57:51 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: subterraneans
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95070609445880@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
(message from Win
Mattingly on Thu, 6 Jul 1995
08:46:11 EDT)
> From: Win
Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
> I'd like to
hear some discussion of The Subterraneans.
In my opinion that
> book, for
all the sexist and racist implications academics will find in it,
Please. What's sexist and racist about it? Try getting out of the dodo PC
mindset and use
your brain for a change.
This has to be one
of the most self-indulgent books I've ever read. No one
picked up on
that? Or do you just fawn over
everything you read?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 12:21:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Matthew C. Curcio"
<curcio@BIOC02.UTHSCSA.EDU>
Subject: folklore
Hello
I too have just
joined on board with you beats.
I also liked
Kirsten interpretaion of _Visions of Gerard_.
Not having a
sibling that passed away, I thought the angelic nature of
Jacks younger
brother was due to the inocence and beauty of youth.
IMHO I thought
this elevation to sainthood was due the lackof outside
forces that
played so strongly on Jack's life that did not play on the
child of
Gerard. For example, the strict catholic
school upbringing that
Jack had which
forced conformity of language, societal rules etc on Jack.
seemingly
corrupted as the
outside forces of
society and post WWII conformity laid down its
oppressive
blanket on Jack.
Aother point that
seems to dovetail with the sainthood of characters was
something also
from the listserv.
Anyway, if memory
serves me, Kerouac typed ONT in one night
in a mind-altered
state (I forget the substance). No
puncuation, no
nothing. Just one continuous paragraph
on one
of those long
computer papers.
He gave it to
Carl Solomon who was at Random House ( a
relative gave him
the job out of pity). Carl, apparently,
freaked out and
tried to put it into some sort of
traditional
apparence - like paragraphs and puncuation.
There was some
kind of prolonged fight about OTR's
final form, but
editor Solomon (who by the way, has
a few interesting
books of his own) sort of won out.
The Folklore that
I have seen on the writing of OTR is that
Jack wrote the
book on newswire paper. (You know that
big rolls that
were used for the
old AP machines. The 'Folklore' says
that he wrote it
in 3 weeks.
Writing for days at a time while on speed and then crashing
for as long. The book may not have contained all the
proper punctuation
but it also was
written without chapter format. Jack had
left all the
names that mattered
to him in the first draft,(ie the some of the real
names) and the
rest he foughtfor as little editing as possible.
But then again
these are only second hand accounts I have read.
Also, I have an other book on Zen that I would like
to suggest that is IMHO
better than _Zen
and the Art ..._ It is _Zen Flesh, Zen
Bones_ edited
and compiled by
Persal(?) P??? something. These are
small stories and
meditations that
are really great.
Enjoy,
Matthew
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:33:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Frank Beacham (via RadioMail)"
<beacham@RADIOMAIL.NET>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
FYI: Kerouac's
original teletype roll manuscript for OTR is now on display
at the New York
Public Library in New York City.
Frank Beacham
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:52:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
>timothy--
>
>i haven't
read clark's bio of kerouac (yet). what
did kerouac say
>about the
catholic parts being edited out of _db_ by cowley? what sort
>of things had
kerouac included? it seems to me that
catholic myth/ritual
>etc. would
have given the book a broader range or greater depth
>(in the joe
campbell sense of comparative mythologies).
most
>interesting. hm. .
. .
>
>claudia
I don't
know. It was a one line sort of
thing. It said that kerouac
complained Cowley
took all the catholicism out (in a qutoe that I cannot
remember
verbatim) and also that he would never write another potboiler
again (also a
quote). Each quote was referenced, but
that was all there
was on the
subject.
I agree with your
point of view that it would have made the book richer. I
think we can look
at Tristessa and Visions of Gerard to get an idea of what
it might have
been like if these parts hadn't been edited out.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:53:52 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bruce Greeley
<v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR teletype roll
Comments: To:
jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
I just joined
this list....
In a brief news
segment anniversary on the New York Public Library
recently on t.v.
, they mentioned (and showed) this sacred On the Road
original teletype
roll housed in the archives there!!
someone check it
out for me!
- Greeley not
Creeley
----------
From: Joseph
Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: OTR
teletype roll
Date: Thursday,
July 06, 1995 6:02PM
> From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
> I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained material
> originally
hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript ... Does anyone
> know whether
the roll still exists? If so, where is
it housed?
I read a passage
from the roll once ... it was quite different from OTR as
published. I can't believe no one has tried to squeeze
money out of
publishing the
original roll. It would be fascinating
reading.
As for the person
who was talking the other day about Kerouac never revising
-- get in touch
with me. I've got a bridge for you.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 15:19:22 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re:
OTR teletype roll
The OTR scroll is
in the care and keeping of the Berg Collection of the
New York Public
Library. Yes, it was on display during the same period as
the Kerouac
Conference at NYU at the beginning of June. Incidentally, the
NYPL will be the repository of the Kerouac
archives as they are
cataloged, etc.
and already contains a bunch of stuff.
Mark Hemenway
mhemenway@s1.drc.com
Co-Editor
"Dharma beat" the magazine of all things Kerouac, and
Chairman of
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
Join us in
Lowell, MA, 4-9 October for the Eighth Annual Kerouac Festival
"Everyone
comes home in October."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 12:51:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Frank Beacham (via
RadioMail)" <beacham@RADIOMAIL.NET>
Subject: OTR Roll Still on Display
The Kerouac
scroll of OTR is still on display (at least it was last week)
on the third
floor at the NY Public Library.
According to info at the
exhibit it will
soon be copied using some high quality duplication process
due to its
deteriorating condition.
There was also a
mention among panelists (on a publishing panel) at the
recent Kerouac
conference at NYU of the possibility that a fascimile OTR
scroll that's an
exact replica of the original might be published in the
near future. From what was said such a publishing project
is under active
consideration but
not certain by any means.
Frank Beacham
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 15:57:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR Roll Still on Display
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of THU 06 JUL 1995
01:51:23 EDT
Jack told Steve
Allen that the manuscript was typed on a teletype roll,
and that it took
three weeks to write. From memory, I think the exchange
goes something
like this:
Steve: Three
weeks??? How long were you on the road?
Jack: Six years
Steve: I was once
on the road for three weeks and it took six years to
write about it.
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 16:05:37 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Racist/sexist projection in The
Subterraneans
I think the
debate over the allegedly sexist or racist nature of The
Subterraneans is
misguided and exemplary of the mindset which condemns
The Adventures of
Huckleberry Finn for its use of the "N" word.
Let us admit that
Kerouac was a product of his times and his background as
first generation
white American. Like many other white people, then and now,
he romanticized
the culture, personalities and even bodies of African-
Americans. Who
can help but chuckle when they read his paean to the
"happy
Negroes of America" in OTR? We know that African-Americans aren't
all that happy
all the time. Why should they be? They're just people and
people aren't
typically elated, to put it mildly. Kerouac was
romanticizing
them, objectifying them in a way, because his experience
of their lives as
actually lived was so meager. Also, he was pining to
be anything other
than what he so drearily was at that moment: a white
man. It's the
same with Mardou. She is strange to him. Alien. He can't
imagine what it's
like to be inside her skin and so he concentrates on the
part of her that
is different from other women he's known: her hair, her
cheekbones, the
color and texture of her skin. This is entirely natural.
Which of us who
has had an intimate relationship with someone of another
race hasn't felt
the tingle of the exotic, that almost intoxicating
fascination that
comes from close proximity to someone so attractive and
yet so physically
different? If you claim otherwise, I say you're a liar.
You just didn't
write honestly about it, as Jack did. Most of us who
persist in these
relationships soon find that the object of our affection
is indeed no
different than we are on the inside. People are just people,
after all. But
there is power and mystery in physical differences. The
problem today is
how to express that mystery without some moral cop writing
you a ticket.
Sexism is a much
greater problem in Kerouac. It's clear that he was nearly
misogynistic in
his views toward women, views no doubt reinforced by
heterosexual cads
like Cassady as well as homosexual
--
Mark S. Gordon
"If you want
somebody you can trust, trust yourself." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 14:59:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Questad
<questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: To flame or not to flame
This observation
could just as easily apply to almost every list or
Usenet group I've
looked at in my short time on the Net. And applies to
pretty much every
other Net group more than it does here, where I've
found most
everyone to be sweet and generous.
Alot of Net users
are gregarious and bold, the anonimity of the
situation
empowering them to say whatever they feel.
The same freedom
that allows a
self-taught person to converse with an academic
encourages some
people to attack others simply because they can. I'm
afraid a couple
of my friends who helped with my setup before I got on
line I now
recognize are of this type. They like to
attack others,
belittle them and
mock them. I guess most of us have never
felt free
to walk into a
room and laugh at the first person who opens his mouth.
For some reason
this is very exciting to some people.
I haven't seen it
happen here, but I know most of us have experienced
it in one form or
another because there is a distinct fear of flaming
between the lines
of many of the posts on BEAT-L.
Statements that
begin "This
is just my opinion PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME" show this fear.
I think most of
us are gentle souls looking for friends and no matter
how
"safe" the internet is, nobody wants to be jumped on for stating
his opinion. I
think most of us think harder than we should have to
about what we
post out of fear of an individual or group reacting with
harsh and painful
words. Or more often, "if I disagree with this
person, will
he/she think I am trying to hurt them".
This is an aspect
of on line life I don't expect will change, but I
would state that
I joined this list recently thinking it a literary
discussion
group. And it is, but how far can it go
if we are afraid to
critisize or be
critisized. If I make a remark and you
know or believe
differently, I
would welcome a response. I also hope to
be able to
debate without
hurting someone's feelings. I'd add that even more than
being afraid of
flames, we are afraid someone will think our gentle
remarks are
malicious and we are scared to disagree.
I make these
comments not in response to anything on this list other
than three or
four postings that contained emphatic apologies in
advance.
And I realize one
of the main ways to get flamed is to write an overly
long
message. But I'm not apologizing. Responses
of all sorts welcome.
Jeff Questad
Austin, Tx
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 20:23:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew J Schwartz
<schwrtz@MAGICNET.NET>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
burn baby, burn.
or to be more
specific:
"Whee. Sal,
we gotta go and never stop going till we get there."
"Where we
going, man?"
"I don't
know but we gotta go."
-Jack Kerouac, On The Road, page 238
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
The Radiation Group Globalmedia Designs
Putting Your Business in Their Laptops
http://www.magicnet.net/rz/rad_home.html
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 22:18:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
jeff--
i think flames
differ from genuine disagreements about the content
of someone's
message. i have no problem with arguing
my point(s)
and exchanging ideas. how else will i be able to learn, if not
by being exposed
to different opinions? i might not agree
with
all of them, i
might reject some of them completely, or i might
see truth(s) in
them. but every exchange gives one an
opportunity
to construct
knowledge a bit differently (not to groove in the
same old
constructs for all eternity).
the problem comes
when people attack the writer of the message, rather
than the
message. i have been on lists where the
usual reply
to post was
something like "you moron, you have no idea what you
are talking
about; let me show you the real truth!"
well, that's
unkind and
unnecessary, and leads to those flame wars where positions
get so entrenched
that genuine inter-change is impossible.
the culmination
usually is some type of heated name-calling, in
which the person
with the biggest four-letter vocab wrestles
everybody into
submission. it's fun to watch for about
a day
or two, and then
the delete button becomes my best friend.
i try to write my
messages and responses with the realization of the
inherent
buddha-nature in every sentient being, but at times,
due to the nature
of this medium, words can obscure meaning
and intention . .
.
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 21:00:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
In-Reply-To: <950706221829.6ae8@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
I am the Buddha
known as the Poster.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 08:35:13 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
I've been on the
net for about six years and have been involved in many
a flame war,
particularly on the Usenet newsgroup sci.skeptic where, if
you even suggest
a belief in God, you invite mortal combat. My experience
is that flame
wars are just a big waste of time - all heat, no light.
Regrettably they
are also a tool used by some cowardly souls whose only
power resides in
the ability to post relatively anonymous text.
Whenever my
comments are in direct response to someone else's, I always
include a flame
disclaimer, not because I fear retribution, but because
I don't want to
hurt anyone's feelings. If people want
to come after me,
they're welcome
to, but I won't come after them.
--
Mark S. Gordon
"If you want
somebody you can trust, trust yourself." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 09:08:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: flaming?
I guess I'm a
little dense, or the flaming has been private among other
readers, but I
haven't read anything in this list that I would consider
to be flaming. I've seen honest opinions, maybe some
emotional
responses, but
certainly nothing that I would take personally.
In fact,
the messages I
received this morning all appeared to say the same
thing...this is
an open forum and we should all respect the rights of
others to voice
their opinion in a dignified manner.
It's what I enjoy
most about this
list. Personally, I'm not afraid of
other people voicing
opinions that are
contrary to my own, I am just not used to exposing my
soul to strangers
(even to people I love dearly) so I tend to be shy
about intense
subjects. I don't get angry when people
close their
minds...it makes
me sad. Intolerance is rampant in this
world; I'd like
to think I found
a place to be free of this disease. Peace to all. Kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 06:41:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: back to spontaneous prose
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Creator of Literary Kicks, the Beat Literature
Web Site
URL:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
Please preview my new Web project, Queensboro
Ballads
URL: http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
"How can you
have any pudding if you won't eat your meat?"
-- Pink Floyd
----------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 00:23:12 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: summary
Dear All
Thank you, thank
you, thank you, whoever put this list together (was it you
Brian?). I first read Kerouac at that time when I'd
just left college and felt,
from the comfort
of my own back garden, that I could do anything. He continues
to inspire me to
go further and deeper, like no other writer has done or will
do. I recently
kicked in my job and am now 'freelance' which is a lot to do with
the way this
'crazy dumbsaint of the mind' has affected me over the years.
Brian wrote:
> Another interesting thread has been the
Zen connection to the Beats
> (critical
appraisal's of Dharma Bums; Gary Snyder's work), and through it some
> important
observations and challenges concerning the way we perceive "the
>
Beats"--as a historical period or a way of being/frame of mind and spirit
that
> continues
(maybe both).
Yes, I think it
is a historical period which is particularly relevant to now,
although I can't
quite put my finger on why. I feel it's a lot to do with
disaffection for
traditional economic and political (in the widest sense)
processes, and
the greater array of opportunities that so many of us are lucky
to have when
compared to our parents' generation.
Coupland's novel 'Generation
X' sums this up
well, although in a much less accomplished way than Kerouac's
work; it frees
the spirit in the same way that OTR does.
--
Simon Okotie
North London
UK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.'
W B Yeats
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 13:17:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Questad
<questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Burroughs and 3rd mind
I suspect there
are alot of us on this list who are writers and who
have taken
inspiration from the Kerouac and Ginsberg.
Is there anyone
who has read
Third Mind by Burroughs and Gyson and perhaps done any of
that kind of
writing?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 09:44:53 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: kerouac movie
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:01:16 -0700
from
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
On Fri, 30 Jun
1995 15:01:16 -0700 Thomas DeRosa said:
>latest rumors
i've heard from levi asher (literary kicks, web page) is
>that coppola
is directing it, not gus van sant. another rumor is that
>dean will be
played by sean penn and sal will be brad pitt. all this is
>rumor so you
didn't hear it from me. check out lit. kicks beat news for
>more info
than i can remember.
>i just
subscribed to this list yesterday and i must say i am impressed.
>its so great
to find others who are into the beats. five years ago i
>really had to
search for their books, now they're all over. should we
>send the gap
a thank you note?
No need to worry
about spreading rumors. This info has appeared
in print in a
number of
publications including Time or Newsweek.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:28:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ed Zahniser
<Ed_Zahniser@NPS.GOV>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
Comments: To: Win
Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
The Contemporary American Theater
Festival in Shepherdstown,
WV (July 5-23) is doing John Lipsky's
play "Maggie's Riff"
about Kerouac & his looking back
on his first love in
hometown Lowell, Mass. For information
call the festival at
304-876-3473.
These are equity actors, and they do a
good job with the
play.
Ed
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 12:55:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Raymond Holloway
<urhollow@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
In-Reply-To: <950705145645_25814261@aol.com>
Ray Holloway
770 N. Halsted
Suite 420
Chicago, IL 60622
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:57:30 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: eli wilentz obit
I was very
pleased to find so much traffic on the list when I returned from vac
ation. I also found that Eli Wilentz, co-owner of
the legendary Eighth Street
Bookshop and
publisher of the Corinth Press which published Kerouac's Scripture
of the Golden Eternity, among others, had
passed away. For anyone interested
there's an
obituary in the New York Times on Monday June 26, Section B, page 8.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:33:49 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:37:18 EDT from
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
On Thu, 6 Jul
1995 10:37:18 EDT Stedman, Jim said:
>I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained
>material
originally hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript. I
>would love to
see a release of _that_ manuscript... when TS Eliot's
>Wasteland
manuscript was published, I was really drawn in by the notes,
>comments, and
corrections supplied by Pound, Eliot, and others.
>Imagine
marketing the teletype manuscript as just that, a roll of paper
>(instead of a
bound book).
>Does anyone
know whether the roll still exists? If so, where is it
>housed?
>Jim Stedman
The roll
manuscript was on display at the New York Public Library last week. T
here was some
talk about publishing a facsimile of it at the NYU conference las
t month. The roll is in fairly bad shape. If it is published, it will probabl
y be expensive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 16:20:51 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: OTR Roll Still on Display
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 6 Jul 1995 15:57:09 EDT from
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
On Thu, 6 Jul
1995 15:57:09 EDT Stedman, Jim said:
>Jack told
Steve Allen that the manuscript was typed on a teletype roll,
>and that it
took three weeks to write. From memory, I think the exchange
>goes
something like this:
>Steve: Three
weeks??? How long were you on the road?
>Jack: Six
years
>Steve: I was
once on the road for three weeks and it took six years to
>write about
it.
>Jim Stedman
There's always
been some confusion as to what type of roll OTR was typed on. S
ometimes, I've
wondered if there wasn't a second roll manuscript. The roll at
NYPL looks like a
teletype roll to me -- cheap yellow paper.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:31:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and 3rd mind
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Hi,
I've read The
Third Mind four or five times over the years (it's usually
been through
academic libraries because it's been out of print for years) and
have in fact done
work with my own aleatory texts. I agree
with Burroughs
that some
conscious manipulation on the part of the author (or assembler) is
necessary to make
it worthwhile. The whole point is that
there are three
guiding
intelligences at work. It's fun to do
and one invariably comes up
with stuff that
is engaging, hilarious, or creepy. A lot
of it is boring too -
that's where the
auctorial hand should make itself known.
'rub the words out' i
n all its
permutations can get kind of samey, but 'the razor inside. jerk the
handle.' or
'lonesome blue train whistle 1920s etc.' fit the bill (no pun
intended)
nicely. i think it's a terrific prose
technique and deserves a
place in the
palette of any writer.
adam cohen-siegel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 13:40:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: Digest option
A number of
people have asked about receiving Beat-L as a digest rather
than individual
postings. Easily done. Just send the following message to
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
(*not* to beat-l!!):
set beat-l digest
That's all there
is to it. Should you want to receive individual postings
again, send mail
again to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu with the following message:
set beat-l mail
Fred Bogin
William Gargan
Beat-L owners
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 15:27:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JoAnn Ruvoli <jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject: Diana DiPrima
Has anyone read
anything by Diana Diprima? What would
you recommend? I've
only read
excerpts of Dinners and Nightmares.
JoAnne Ruvoli
Loyola
University-Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 13:50:37 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lesley Reece <lreece01@SCCCED.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
That's all I've ever seen by her, and
I haunt bookstores
quite a bit.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 13:56:44 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lesley Reece
<lreece01@SCCCED.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: OTR Roll Still on Display
I heard it was a roll of shelf
paper. I've never seen it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:00:50 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lesley Reece
<lreece01@SCCCED.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
Lesley Reece
1521 15th Ave #F
Seattle, WA 98122
Thank you very much.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:02:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Daniel Lundy <dlundy@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To:
<9506118054.AA805495874@SCCCSTU.sccced.ctc.edu>
Penguin is
scheduled to reissue MEMOIRS OF A BEATNIK and also a volume of
poetry LOBA but
not until August 1996.
Dan Lundy
DLUNDY@penguin.com
Academic
Marketing & Sales
tel: 212-366-2373
PENGUIN USA fax: 212-366-2933
375 Hudson
Street
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
New York, NY
10014-3657 "
60 PENGUIN YEARS "
On Tue, 11 Jul
1995, Lesley Reece wrote:
> That's all I've ever seen by her,
and I haunt bookstores
> quite a bit.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:33:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JoAnn Ruvoli
<jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.950711170040.9420A-100000@panix.com>
I know that
Northwestern Univ. in Evanston has a significant amount of
DiPrima material
in their special collections, but I haven't had time to
go over there to
look at it. I have a feeling it is
primarily small
press editions of
her poetry. Is LOBA a compilation of her
work or a
reprint?
On Tue, 11 Jul
1995, Daniel Lundy wrote:
> Penguin is
scheduled to reissue MEMOIRS OF A BEATNIK and also a volume of
> poetry LOBA
but not until August 1996.
>
> Dan
Lundy
DLUNDY@penguin.com
> Academic
Marketing & Sales
tel: 212-366-2373
> PENGUIN
USA
fax: 212-366-2933
> 375 Hudson
Street
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
> New York, NY
10014-3657 "
60 PENGUIN YEARS "
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:46:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 11 Jul 1995 15:27:04 -0500
from
<jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Di Prima is
wonderful. I recommend the Selected Poems
for a start. Also Memoi
rs of a Beatnik,
a pornographic novel/memoir that includes an orgy with Jack Ke
rouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 11:15:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: otr
so i'm near the
end...and it hits me...hard..dean is no longer just
ranting...there's
substance...there's life and it is the road.
i get it
now... how misled i was in the beginning...i
thought, "how empty" i see
now how wrong i
was. i'm gone now.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 13:01:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Norm Carlson
<CARLSONN@WMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 11 Jul 1995
17:46:05 -0400 (EDT)"
<BEAT-L%95071117515100@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Something slightly different that Diane di
Prima did: in
1960, she edited a collection entitled
VARIOUS FABLES FROM
VARIOUS PLACES, published as a Putnam
Capricorn [paperbound]
Original (for $1.15)....
Norm Carlson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 13:50:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott
<kerouac@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950711170040.9420A-100000@panix.com>
I may be wrong, but I'm sure I've seen
Memoirs of a Beatnik at
several
bookstores. Not sure who it's published
by, though. However,
no, I haven't
seen much else on bookstore shelves by DiPrima.
Scott
Yeah. Right.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 21:39:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lisa Taylor <LisaTMP@AOL.COM>
Subject: DALLAS EVENTS
"VISIONARIES
AND REBELS:
AMERICAN
LITERATURE AFTER THE ATOM BOMB"
AN EXHIBIT OF THE
COLOPHON MODERNS COLLECTION
FIRST EDITION
BOOKS FROM 1950-1975
OPENS SEPT. 20 AT SMU DEGOLYER LIBRARY
For press
information:
Lisa Taylor,
Taylor-Made Press
(214) 943-1099
Release date:
July 14, 1995
DALLAS-TX--The
Friends of the SMU Libraries will celebrate its 25th
anniversary with
an exhibit of selected works from its Colophon Moderns
Collection Sept.
20-Nov. 17, 1995 at DeGolyer Library, 6404 Hilltop Lane, on
the Southern
Methodist University campus. The exhibit
will be FREE and open
to the public
Monday-Friday 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. as well as during special
events. Call (214) 768-3225 for more information.
The exhibit of
over 60 works, curated by SMU alumna Mary Courtney, includes
first editions by
Edward Albee, James Baldwin, Saul Bellow, Richard
Brautigan,
Charles Bukowski, William Burroughs, Robert Creeley, James Dickey,
Joan Didion,
Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Allen Ginsberg, Joseph Heller, Robert
Kelly, Jack
Kerouac, Ken Kesey, Norman Mailer, Larry McMurtry, Flannery
O'Connor, Joyce
Carol Oates, Gary Snyder, Kurt Vonnegut, Anne Waldman and
Thomas Wolfe.
Related events
include an opening celebration with Decherd Turner speaking on
"My Literary
Dilemma: Too Young To Be Lost, Too Old To Be Beat" on Sept. 20,
the screening of
Beat generation films on Sept. 28 and Sept. 29, a benefit
dinner at
Michele's on Oct. 2, the screening of Robert Frank films every
weekend in Oct.,
a panel discussion on Oct. 19 commemorating The Southwest
Review's 80th
anniversary, a poetry and music concert on Nov. 8, a
presentation of
awards for a student book collecting contest on Nov. 17, and
a reading series
presented with the Writer's Garret on Oct. 5, 12, and 26.
Highlighting the
literary effort of postwar American authors who made
significant
contributions to fiction and poetry, the Colophon Moderns
Collection was
begun by the Friends of the SMU Libraries to identify and
collect
"those books published in 1950 and thereafter which are judged to be
definitive in
establishing the contours of the spirit-soul-mind of man."
Later, the
emphasis was changed to "collect writers rather than individual
works,
particularly in the fields of the novel and drama, poetry, essays and
criticism. "
The writers were selected as those "who have most clearly
contributed to
the profile of what man was doing during 1950/1975--his
agonies, goals,
disappointments, protests, affirmations, etc." The Colophon
Moderns
Collection has grown to include 133 authors, 1200 books, 140
broadsides, 58
periodicals, and 190 anthologies and is now a unique resource
for students and
scholars.
The Friends of
the SMU Libraries/Colophon was founded in 1970 to help the
nine University
libraries maintain their excellence.
During its 25-year
history, the
Friends have funded over $250,000 in grants to support library
materials,
services and operations.
"VISIONARIES
AND REBELS:
AMERICAN
LITERATURE AFTER THE ATOM BOMB"
SCHEDULE OF FALL
EVENTS
For press
information:
Lisa Taylor,
Taylor-Made Press
(214) 943-1099
Release date:
July 14, 1995
OPENING NIGHT
RECEPTION/TALK
Sept. 20 6:30
p.m. DeGolyer Library
6404 Hilltop
Lane, SMU Campus. Free, donations accepted.
Opening
celebration in honor of charter members and former presidents of the
Friends of SMU
Libraries. Decherd Turner will speak on "My Literary Dilemma:
Too Young to be
Lost, Too Old to be Beat"
FILMS
Southwest Film
and Video Archives Sept. 28 7:30 p.m. Screening Room Third
Floor
Greer Garson
Theater Building Meadows School of the
Arts
SMU Campus. FREE,
donations accepted
FILMS ABOUT THE
BEAT
Jack Kerouac's
Road : Through photographs, archival film footage, interviews
and skillful
reconstructions of events, Jack Kerouac's Road
traces the life
of this gifted
American writer--with special attention to his many
experiences
travelling from one end of the US to the other by car--
experiences which
he wrote down and turned into a romantic epic.
French with
English
subtitles.
William S.
Burroughs: Commissioner of the Sewers: A portrait of the author
who created Naked
Lunch. With his characteristically dry
wit and subtle
humor, Burroughs
talks about language and other weapons, about the work as a
virus, about
death and dreams, about travel in time and space.
Sept. 29 7:30
p.m. Screening Room Third Floor
Greer Garson
Theater Building Meadows School of the
Arts
SMU campus. FREE,
donations accepted
FILMS ABOUT THE
BEAT
Kerouac: An award
winning docu-drama about the King of the Beat Generation,
Jack Kerouac.
Oct. 6-7 8 p.m./ Oct. 8 3 p.m The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE
members and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
Pull My Daisy and
Energy and How to Get It
Oct. 13-14 at 8
p.m., Oct. 15 at 3 p.m. The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE
members, and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
This Song for
Jack and Hunter
OVER
PAGE TWO
Oct. 20-21 8 p.m., Oct. 22 3 p.m. The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE
members, and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
Conversations in
Vermont and Life Dances On
Oct. 27-28 8 p.m., Oct. 29 3 p.m. The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE members,
and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
C'est Vrai
MOMENTS WITH THE
MODERNS: A READING SERIES
Presented in
conjunction with The Writer's Garret for three Thursdays at 7:30
p.m. at DeGolyer
Library, SMU Campus. FREE ADMISSION. Donations accepted.
Oct. 5 7:30 p.m.
READING BETWEEN THE LINES: Joe Stanco interviews Jack
Kerouac (actor
Mark Hankla).
Oct. 12 7:30 p.m.
READING BETWEEN THE LINES: Glodean
Baker-Gardner
interviews James
Baldwin (actor Fred Gardner).
Oct. 26 7:30 p.m.
Reel/Real Writers: Allen Ginsberg on video, with Joe Stanco
live. This is an encore performance from The MAC.
EAT TO THE
BEAT-DINING
Michelle's Coffee
Bar & Cafe, 6617 Snider Plaza, will present a benefit night
on Monday, Oct. 2
5-9:30 p.m. for the Friends of the SMU Libraries. Proceeds
from all dinners
that evening will benefit the Friends' organization. Call
691-8164 for
reservations.
PANEL DISCUSSION
In celebration of
The Southwest Review's 80th Anniversary
'A Literary Overview
of the Post War Period"
Thursday, Oct. 19
at 7:30 p.m. FREE.
Hughes-Trigg
Student Center Auditorium, SMU campus
The panel will be
moderated by Willard Spiegelman, Prof. of
Literature at
SMU, with
participation by Steven Kellman, Ashbel
Smith Professor of
Comparative
Literature, UT San Antonio; Jack Myers, Professor of English,
SMU. Additional panelists to be announced.
MUSIC
Meadows New Music
Ensemble
Nov. 8 8 p.m.
O'Donnell Lecture
Recital Hall SMU Meadows School of the Arts
FREE Improvisational
performance of beat poetry and music.
SMU LITERARY
FESTIVAL
1995 Student Book
Collecting Contest
Awards
presentation
Nov. 17 at Hughes Trigg Student Center
All full-time
undergraduate and graduate SMU students are eligible to enter
this contest
sponsored the Friends of the SMU Libraries.
Deadline for
entries is Nov.
1. Display of the winning book
collections and a reception
honoring the
winners takes place at 6:30 p.m. in DeGolyer Library prior to
the presentation
of the awards by the SMU Literary Festival guest author in
the Hughes Trigg
Theater. To commemorate the Friends'
25th anniversary, a
special prize
will be given to the collection that best establishes the
original Colophon
Collection theme.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 01:25:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kerolist@AOL.COM
Subject: No Subject
Please add me to
the BEAT-L: Beat Generation List
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:27:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
In case anyone is
working on an article on Kerouac in Florida, I pass on this n
ote from The
Hemingway Newsletter: "The Journal
of Florida Literature invites
submissions of
creative writing, articles, notes and reviews devoted to Florida
writers and literature about
Florida." I guess Kerouac
qualifies. Contact R
odger L. Tarr,
editor, English Dept., 4240 Illinois State Univ., Normal, IL
61790-4240.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 15:47:22 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Morrow
<MORROW@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject: Gary Snyder On TV
I've read several
posts referring to Gary Snyder and wanted
to let everyone
know that, according to my local listings,
he is scheduled
to be on a show on PBS called, "The Language
Of Life With Bill
Moyers" at 9:00 p.m. tonight (July 14th).
According to the
listings, "Gary Snyder uses words to defend
the natural
world; Daisy Zamora writes about the pain of war."
The show is one
hour long.
Ron Morrow
Toronto, Canada
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:30:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: broken bones
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071415581288@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
There's a song
that Al Ginsberg sings in the recent documentary about him
that
goes..."broken bones, broken bones...etc."
Does anyone know
if a recording of this is available?
It doesn't seem
to be on the box set, but maybe it is?
A posting of
available recordings would be great.
tanks,
joe
jreifer@wahoo.sjsu.edu
http://gallery.sjsu.edu/ArtH/Tibet/main.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:39:00 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bruce Greeley
<v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: broken bones
I haven't heard
Ginsberg's boxed set but believe it has different
material than one
earlier record he put out with a bunch of 'downtown,
skronking jazzbos
and avant-rockers' -- where the recording you're
talking about may
have come from -- unfortunately, I don't remember the
title to this
("The Lion is Roaring" maybe?) which is at home.
Other recordings
which Ginsberg has been on:
* song with
"The Clash" (?title?)
* album where he
sings Blake poems accompanying himself on harmonium,
plus guest
artists like Don Cherry, Elvin Jones, Peter Orlovsky
if this doesn't
prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in
my music
collection this weekend(!)
- Greeley not
Creeley
----------
From: Joe
Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: broken
bones
Date: Friday,
July 14, 1995 1:30PM
There's a song
that Al Ginsberg sings in the recent documentary about him
that
goes..."broken bones, broken bones...etc."
Does anyone know
if a recording of this is available?
It doesn't seem
to be on the box set, but maybe it is?
A posting of
available recordings would be great.
tanks,
joe
jreifer@wahoo.sjsu.edu
http://gallery.sjsu.edu/ArtH/Tibet/main.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:25:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Shana Skaletsky
<isis@MARS.MCS.COM>
Subject: Re: broken bones
In-Reply-To: <9507161213.AA22666@netmail2.microsoft.com>
On Fri, 14 Jul
1995, Bruce Greeley wrote:
> I haven't
heard Ginsberg's boxed set but believe it has different
> material
than one earlier record he put out with a bunch of 'downtown,
> skronking
jazzbos and avant-rockers' -- where the recording you're
> talking
about may have come from -- unfortunately, I don't remember the
> title to
this ("The Lion is Roaring" maybe?) which is at home.
> Other
recordings which Ginsberg has been on:
> * song with
"The Clash" (?title?)
>
> if this doesn't
prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in
> my music
collection this weekend(!)
>
> - Greeley
not Creeley
> ----------
I believe that
the song Allen Ginsberg recorded with The Clash is called
"Ghetto
Defendant", and can be found on The Clash album "Combat Rock",
recorded @1980.
While we're on the topic, I was wondering if anyone knew
anything about a
rumour I heard-it involved Allen and the rock band U2
recording
something together. can anyone confirm or deny this for me?
-Shana
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:46:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Matthew C. Curcio"
<curcio@BIOC02.UTHSCSA.EDU>
Subject: LynxOfTheWeek71495
Hey Guys abd
Girls,
Thought some of
you would like to cruise the web sites of distinction and
this might be one
you will like.
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/JackKerouac.html
Have Fun
Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:15:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM
Subject: YOU'RE FIRED!
Soft-pedal it all
you want by calling it a "reduction in force",
"downsizing",
whatever. The fact is, you have heard
these words, or will at
some point in the
near future unless you take Ownership of your talents and
skills.
The workplace is
changing faster than ever before in the history of mankind.
In order to fit in, you, I and everyone who
works needs to become an expert
is what we do and
find a way to partner with a company so we can both
succeed.
I've been in your
shoes and have Coached a lot of people through the process
of identifying
where they fit into the future workplace.
Last fall, I put my
thoughts into a
book entitled, The Unchained Worker.
Here is an
overview of The Unchained Worker - Principles of Ownership in the
Workplace, and
what people are saying about it.
Ownership
inspires and motivates us to take action, to protect and improve
what's ours. We own our talents, experience and
capabilities. When we put
them in
partnership with a company, the future is ours to make........
What is
Ownership? It's a new perspective for
all of us to use when dealing
with our
jobs. Ownership is a mind-set, an
attitude that forces you to look
no further than
yourself to secure your future in the workplace. It's the
catalyst for
superior individual performance within companies. It provides a
common vocabulary
for workers to excel as individuals. Ownership motivates
people to develop
their talents and bolster individual performance. It puts
success in their
hands..........
Table of
Contents.
1. Take control of your future with Ownership
2. Ownership is a vocabulary for success.
3. Ownership is a problem solving tool.
4. Ownership exercises your brain.
5. Adjust your attitude for better performance.
6. Ownership starts with common sense.
7. Ownership is the workplace of the future.
8. Get work done more efficiently with Ownership
9. How Mis-applied responsibility holds you
back.
10. Ownership in
Action.
11. The
principles that will guide your success.
12. Ownership is
an Adventure
13. Ownership
unleashes your performance.
The intended
audience is everyone who works. There
are 142 pages with plenty
of graphics and
illustrations. It's about a 2 hour read
total.
Here's what
people are saying about The Unchained Worker:
I've always
believed in the
individual's desire to succeed. Creating
the right
environment is the
key. Ownership will work in any
organization, Great stuff
- Dennis
Erickson, Head Coach Seattle Seahawks.
Inspirational! Fantastic!
What a wonderful
book. It made me think about things I've
never considered.
Thanks. - Staci
Clevenger, Assembly line worker.
I want to wish
you the very best of luck in your careers.
Jeffrey C.
Petkevicius
Cybernetix Inc.
14817 N. Jennifer
Ct.
Mead, WA 99021
(800) 517-4268
FAX: (509)
467-9573
Ownership@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:13:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from
"OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul
17, 95 06:15:52 pm
> Cybernetix
Inc.
> 14817 N.
Jennifer Ct.
> Mead, WA
99021
> (800)
517-4268
> FAX: (509)
467-9573
>
Ownership@aol.com
I believe it's
proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
dude by phone,
e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
GET HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
Anyway, why does
he think people who read Beat literature have employment
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch of
bongo-playing beatniks here.
Also, besides the
fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
lame.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:29:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com>
Uh, I thought
this was supposed to be stuff about beat authors - not
about the
politics of having a job in the world today (although a
correlation would
have been nice and made that post - not reposted here
for sake of space
- relevant).
joe
things are
symbols of themselves - a. ginsberg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:24:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "KEVIN M. KELLY"
<kkelly3@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>
I feel compelled
to point out that this same individual _flooded_ another
listserv I
subscribe to with similar self-promotions of this same
book--complete
with quotes from "reviews." I
should also point out that
this was at least
a human resources list where such a listing might be
appropriate
(still shameless self-promotion) and he was quickly hounded
off the
list. He even posted a public apology
before disappearing - what
a guy!
For this post to
appear here suggests he is targeting random irrelevant
lists for maximum
exposure. He probably knows his message
won't last
long. I think this clown richly deserves any
appropriate response his ad
might bring his
way. Since he gave us his 800 # I have
to assume he wants
to hear from us.
On Mon, 17 Jul
1995, Levi Asher wrote:
> >
Cybernetix Inc.
> > 14817
N. Jennifer Ct.
> > Mead,
WA 99021
> > (800)
517-4268
> > FAX:
(509) 467-9573
> >
Ownership@aol.com
>
>
> I believe
it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
> dude by
phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
> GET
HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
>
> Anyway, why
does he think people who read Beat literature have employment
>
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch
of bongo-playing beatniks here.
>
> Also,
besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
> lame.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
> "So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
> timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
> my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
> or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
______________
Regards,
Kevin M. Kelly
Office of Human
Resources Voice: 703.993.2600
George Mason
University Fax: 703.993.2601
Fairfax, VA
22030-4444
kkelly3@osf1.gmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:34:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kevin P. Freeman"
<kpfst2@POP.PITT.EDU>
Subject: On the Road
Does anyone have
an update on the possibility of a feature film of On the Road?
------
kpfst2@pop.pitt.edu
http://www.pitt.edu/~kpfst2
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:53:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To:
<199507180134.VAA26732@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
Francis Ford
Copolla was apparently working on this project - there were
casting
difficulties amongst other things and the project has been
delayed. Hold on
to yr hats, kids, because one article I read said they
were considering
Jim "the mask" carrey for the part of burroughs. Other
names mentioned
included yr typical hollywood gen-x stars. Scary stuff!
There are 2
documentaries on Kerouac (at least two) - one has cheesy
reenactments of
the beat era, the other doesn't. Guess which one I like
better. Ha ha ha.
Furthur, there is
that really great Ginsberg documentary from 93 and
something called
"the burroughs movie" (?) - a real good documentary and
someone stole my
copy and if anyone knows where to get one (preferably
for cheap,
dad...) i would be forever indebted, and that's a long time.
Here's the
question that spawned this post:
> Does anyone
have an update on the possibility of a feature film of On
the Road?
and don't you
know that god is pooh-bear? - j. kerouac
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:07:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road
Speaking of
goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be
surprised if
Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.
After all with,
Francis Ford
Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after Copolla
produced the Don
Juan DiMarco film. Also Depp is a
well-known beat fan. He
paid some $5000
at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac and
lists it as his
most prized possesion. He also
interviewed Ginberg for an
issue of
Interview.
What about the
cast from Naked Lunch? Ive heard from
several people that the
actors playing
walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an
excellent job and
that they would like to see them play the parts.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:26:14 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: Ownership
What the guy did
was definitely not right. Let's flood his 800 number
with crank calls.
Write it on every lavatory door, if necessary. But let's
not tie up this
list with more comments about it. We deliberately don't
screen postings,
to allow the fullest interchange of ideas, and as a
consequence this
kind of thing can happen. 'nuff said.
Fred Bogin
Beat-L co-owner
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:22:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from
"OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul
17, 95 06:15:52 pm
> 1. Take control of your future with Ownership
let go of trying
to control, man...
> 2. Ownership is a vocabulary for success.
if domination is
your idea of being successful as a human being.
> 3. Ownership is a problem solving tool.
things always
have a way of working out if you let it be
> 4. Ownership exercises your brain.
independent thought
is the only exercise i practice...trying to control
what other people
think is an exercise in futility...self-help books are
only good for the
person who wrote it.
> 5. Adjust your attitude for better performance.
in other words,
be what other people want you to be.
> 6. Ownership starts with common sense.
What is it with
this ownership, possession jazz.. this
control freak is
really
annoying... sometimes literacy is wasted
on the mindless.
forget this...i'm
gone.
"...and
nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to anybody besides
the forlorn rags
of growing old..." Sal Paradise
peace.
pooh
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:46:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Elsie Pettit
<pettit@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>
On Mon, 17 Jul
1995, Levi Asher wrote:
> >
Cybernetix Inc.
> > 14817
N. Jennifer Ct.
> > Mead,
WA 99021
> > (800)
517-4268
> > FAX:
(509) 467-9573
> >
Ownership@aol.com
>
>
> I believe
it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
> dude by
phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
> GET
HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
>
Ditto!
I just decided to ignore this bit of crass commercialism.
Beat-L, indeed!
> Anyway, why
does he think people who read Beat literature have employment
>
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch
of bongo-playing beatniks here.
>
Ha! My
thoughts *exactly* when I read it.
(Have you called
him yet, Levi?)
Elsie Pettit
> Also,
besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
> lame.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 150 years
ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
> "So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
> timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
> my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
> or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:24:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <950718020710_117207075@aol.com>
> What about
the cast from Naked Lunch? Ive heard
from several people that the
> actors
playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an
> excellent
job and that they would like to see them play the parts.
I thought the
portrayals of Jack and Al in "Naked Lunch" were horribly
goofy - not goofy
in a sublime beat way - just plain offensive.
Shoulda left it
out - at least they didn't try to portray Gysin - sheesh.
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:46:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
I think Jim
Carrey would be a good Bull Lee. That is
the only potential
casting that I
have heard that sounds decent.
Who could play
Joan Burroughs character?
She was always
raking the lizards off the tree.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <199507181646.JAA26430@hsc.usc.edu>
On Tue, 18 Jul
1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> I think Jim
Carrey would be a good Bull Lee. That is
the only potential
> casting that
I have heard that sounds decent.
>
> Who could
play Joan Burroughs character?
>
> She was
always raking the lizards off the tree.
>
I'd say they
should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
front of a
toasted pistol-toting Bill.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
So it has to be
Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in
Batman Forever -
shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would
play Dr Sax himself??)
Nick W-W
>>
>I'd say they
should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
>front of a
toasted pistol-toting Bill.
>
>Michael
Bertsch
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:34:28 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.91.950718104321.4065C-100000@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>
(message from Michael Bertsch on Tue,
18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700)
From: Michael
Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
> On Tue, 18
Jul 1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>> Who could
play Joan Burroughs' character?
> I'd say they
should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
> front of a
toasted pistol-toting Bill.
joan burroughs
was not ditzy.
do you know
anything at all about the burroughses?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:40:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500
from <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
On Tue, 18 Jul
1995 13:10:27 -0500 Nick Weir-Williams said:
>So it has to
be Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in
>Batman
Forever - shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would
>play Dr Sax
himself??)
>
>Nick W-W
>
>>>
>>I'd say
they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
>>front of
a toasted pistol-toting Bill.
>>
>>Michael
Bertsch
>>
>>
I'd like to see
Jack Nicolson play Sax.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:02:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507181322.JAA09505@imageek.york.cuny.edu> from "Kristen
VanRiper" at Jul 18, 95
09:22:28 am
>
> forget
this...i'm gone.
>
Me too! Cool response.
> peace.
> pooh
Hey wait a minute
-- I thought God was pooh bear.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:11:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Katerie Prior <kadaca@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: Your message
<950718020710_117207075@aol.com> of Tue, 18 Jul 1995
02:07:10 -0400
On Tue, 18 Jul
1995 02:07:10 -0400, Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
wrote;
*Speaking of
goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be
*surprised if
Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.
After all
with,
*Francis Ford
Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after
Copolla
*produced the Don
Juan DiMarco film. Also Depp is a
well-known beat
fan. He
*paid some $5000
at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac
and
*lists it as his
most prized possesion. He also
interviewed Ginberg for
an
*issue of
Interview.
*What about the
cast from Naked Lunch? Ive heard from
several people
that the
*actors playing
walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did
an
*excellent job
and that they would like to see them play the parts.
But they seemed
really old to be playing Ginsberg and Kerouac.
Kerouac's
character was supposed to young, and the guy playing him in NL
had wrinkles
galore.
Kate
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:46:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071815422886@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Nicholson *would*
make a great Sax! Thanks, Bill Gargan!
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507182002.NAA18394@netcom.netcom.com> from "Levi
Asher" at
Jul 18, 95 01:02:07 pm
> Hey wait a
minute -- I thought God was pooh bear.
levi, i was
floored when i read that....neal cassidy and i were riding on
the same plane at
that moment... i was truly moved by the last quarter of
_on the road_, it
was the kerouac that has moved me before. all this talk
on the list about
a movie doesn't do it for me. haven't
gotten to the
bookstore yet,
but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_
someone in
this list said
jack and neal were portrayed as goofy in _the naked
lunch_...haven't
seen it, but it's the reason i'm not into movies...some
overpaid actor
with no connection whatsoever will probably ruin it for
me.
take it easy.
pooh
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:09 CST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500
from
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
I can't imagine
any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road
or any of Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the
movie-only
end up being disappointed.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:37:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: dharma bum biblio
In-Reply-To:
<199507191815.OAA02103@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
>... bookstore
yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_ someone in
yes! do that!
for fans of
dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
picked up one of
his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
library - mere
blocks away from my lil hut:
A Buddhist Bible
- edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
Two other
excellent books are:
The Zen Teaching
of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
Shambala (Pocket
Edition $6), 1994.
Zen Mind,
Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
It is quite
interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to
his Catholic
heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on
his travels to
find his French-Canadian ancestors.
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>>...
bookstore yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_ someone in
>>yes! do
that!
>>for fans
of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
>>picked up
one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
>>library -
mere blocks away from my lil hut:
>>A
Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
>>Two other
excellent books are:
>>The Zen
Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
>>Shambala
(Pocket Edition $6), 1994.
>>Zen Mind,
Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
>>It is
quite interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to
>>his
Catholic heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on
>>his
travels to find his French-Canadian ancestors.
>>joe
A while ago I
posted a note about how Tom Clark's biography related that Kerouac
complained that the editor removed all the
catholic parts from the Dharma Bums.
So maybe he never really left Catholic land
for Buddha lands. I think the
Catholicism was always there. Books like Visions of Gerard, Tristessa and
Mexico city Blues I think are good unedited
examples of his use of Catholicism
and Buddhism together. Remember how often he uses the term the Lamb
or Lamby
Jesus.
And he mentions saints a lot.
Other Zen books
to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.
This I would
reccommend over any others. Others are anything by DT Suzuki (whom was
visited
by kerouac and others in the fifties) and
Philip Kapleau.
And his
biographers recount how Kerouac read and studied the Bible throughout
his life.
So read that too.
The Zen books I
mentioned are just that, Zen. Kerouac
wasn't Zen buddhist as
was Snyder.
I don't know much about it, but I think he studied Chinese
buddhism more.
Maybe someone can talk about that who knows more.
Nowadays it seems
people in the US are interestd in tibetan Buddhsim.
And so, when is
Kerouac's Life of Buddha coming out.
(This was anthologized in
Tricycle).
Supposed to be out this year.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:39:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Terence Ritchie
<tritchie@SOS.WINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Garver?
William Garver,
a.k.a. Bull Gaines, Gains, Gahr-va, and affectionately
known to his
friends as "Old Honeyboy Bill" (Desolation Angels).
I 1st heard his
voice in Mexico City Blues & again in Desolation Angels
and he is without
doubt one of the more vivid characters I've come
across in a
literary while. Any more connections & info about this
gentleman would
be appreciated greatly or is nothing much more known?
As far as movies & Kerouac, "Joan
Rawshanks in the Fog" (Vision of
Cody), one of
Jack's more expansive rifts, springs to the mind and if
one of his old
coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed
even) for The
Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:52:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Win Mattingly
<GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
On Wed, 19 Jul
1995 15:28:28 PDT Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>>>for
fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
>>>picked
up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
>>>library
- mere blocks away from my lil hut:
>
>>>A
Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
>
>>>Two
other excellent books are:
>
>>>The
Zen Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
>>>Shambala
(Pocket Edition $6), 1994.
>
>>>Zen
Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
>
>Other Zen
books to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.
This I would
> reccommend
over any others. Others are anything by
DT Suzuki (whom was
>visited
> by kerouac
and others in the fifties) and Philip Kapleau.
I would recommend
two books: The Empty Mirror and A Glimpse Of Nothingness,
both by Janwillem
Van DeWetering. He left his native
Holland dissatisfied with
capitalism and
the middle class life to enter a Japanese Zen monastery knowing
no Japanese and
with only the clothes on his back, which he describes in the
first book. He later spent several years in an American
Zen monastery in
Washington state,
which he describes in the second book.
Both provide real-
istic and
readable accounts of zen life and touch on the "zen lunatic" concept
that so
fascinated Kerouac (the Japanese monk in charge of the American mon-
astery likes to
get drunk on whiskey and watch cowboy movies).
Win
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:27:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.806192908.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
Rep's book is
interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -
unfortuneately
these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -
merely philosophy
(mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates
theory and
practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.
the
aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by
Kerouac who,
according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced
by this large
work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and
other works.
yes tim - i do
think that there were brilliant synchronizations of
catholicism and
buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study
Buddhism, the
more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see
the biblical
side). 8)
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:29:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071920073292@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Welp, i guess i
started a "recommend your favorite zen book" string of
posts - sheesh.
sorry about that.
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:05:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.950719192859.15225B-100000@wahoo.sjsu.edu>
Reading a book to
learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
hamburgers.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:22:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU> Wrote:
|
|
| Reading a book
to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
| hamburgers.
I think I hear
the sound of one hand clapping.
-josephine-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:15:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>Rep's book is
interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -
>unfortuneately
these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -
>merely
philosophy (mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates
>theory and
practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.
>
>the
aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by
>Kerouac who,
according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced
>by this large
work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and
>other works.
>
>yes tim - i
do think that there were brilliant synchronizations of
>catholicism
and buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study
>Buddhism, the
more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see
>the biblical
side). 8)
>
>joe
I think his
catholicism gets short shrifted or downplayed or is considered
a negative
influence by many. I don't think Kerouac
would appreciate or
agree with these
observations though. BTW I'm not
Catholic. A few years
ago my friend was
looking for a present for his sister for her birthday.
His family is catholic
and his sister is pretty religious, Catholic
intellectual. She worked with the Mother Teresa
organization for a year,
taught at
catholic schools (maybe still does). I
reccommended that he give
her Visions of
Gerard with some trepidation. But later
I found out she
thought it was
the best book she'd ever read.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:17:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>Reading a
book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
>hamburgers.
>
>Michael
Bertsch
Best hamburg in
LA is In and Out. Burger King is the
best of the fast
fooders. I never had a Whitecastle hamburger.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:07:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Garver?
>one of his
old coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed
>even) for The
Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?
Actually you get
a 1st of On the Road for about $800. A
good place for this
and many other
beat rarities is the Beat Book Shop in Boulder, CO. They also
have signed
editions of every Bukowski.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:53:59 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: T P Uschanov
<uschanov@CC.JOENSUU.FI>
Subject: On the Road movie
In-Reply-To: <01HT31W7GLXE000B3J@FIPORT.BITNET>
EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET
wrote:
>I can't
imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road
>or any of
Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even
want to see the movie-only
>end up being
disappointed.
I think the late
Richard Brooks could have done a quite pleasant job on
On the Road. What
do others here think?
T P Uschanov
uschanov@cc.joensuu.fi
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:55:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071916325760@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from
"EVANSBRI%ESUVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"
at Jul 19, 95 03:28:09 pm
> I can't
imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The
Road
> or any of Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the
movie-only
> end up being disappointed.
yeah, i
agree. the way i see it, if you want to
know it, you've got to
experience it for
yourself.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:03:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu>
from "Michael Bertsch" at Jul 19,
95 08:05:10 pm
> Reading a
book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
> hamburgers.
> Michael
Bertsch
you know, i've
picked up a few zen related books, and i've always found
that a "zen
teacher" is an oxymoron..i mean, enlightenment cannot be
taught..it's is
up to the individual...isn't there a story about a
student who
surpasses his teacher by realizing this? (sort of remember
this in zen flesh
zen bones, but it's been a while)
not that it
matters.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:29:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
i think it might
be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests
along the lines
of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.
in their purest
forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are
after the same
thing. (let's just leave organized
religion outside
this entire
discussion) but both catholicism (and i
was raised catholic,
so i know of
which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study
buddhism) are
expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/
bodhisattva)
nature in man. the bible may employ
different terms,
but the life of
jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:38:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu>
> Reading a
book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
> hamburgers.
> Michael
Bertsch
ahhh...but you
should probably put the fly outside instead of swatting
it...and then
have a soyburger...(and then read a book on zen for food
for yr
brain....and then go sit....).
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:38:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>i think it
might be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests
>along the
lines of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.
>in their
purest forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are
>after the
same thing. (let's just leave organized
religion outside
>this entire
discussion) but both catholicism (and i
was raised catholic,
>so i know of
which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study
>buddhism) are
expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/
>bodhisattva)
nature in man. the bible may employ
different terms,
>but the life
of jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.
>claudia
I think this is
well put.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:37:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: beats and the femmes
Hi everyone,
I've just joined
the list and it's been an amazing education so far. At the
end of June
Kristen asked about how other women feel about Kerouac - here's my
thoughts...
I think Carolyn
Cassady's book, Off the Road, really sums it up for me: she
was a woman with
a family to support and this meant
(a) she couldn't
go out and be one of those wild and/or free-spirited women
that the lads
encountered on the road, she had to stay at home and raise the
kids; and
(b) she was
married to a reckless and exciting man who did all his reckless
and exciting
things away from her and was totally unequipped to provide for a
family in any
way. He also often expected her to
shoulder the consequences of
his action.
I think so many
beat writers were caught between wanting the love and
companionship of
a wife and a family and the need to be constantly running
away from it into
something new. I don't think it was
mysoginistic in any
way. I think a new way of life was opening up to
them but they were still
very much in the
shackles of the old way (ie, perceptions of the woman's
role). They may have had plenty of sex and plenty of
girlfriends but
unltimately the
beat generation was a boy's own adventure because they still
hadn't figured
out how to include women.
In my arrogant
opinion...
-josephine-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:42:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Penguin Electronic
<ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>
Subject: Quote from on the Road
I'd be grateful
for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road
where the quote (I approximate):
"The only
ones for me are the mad ones"
comes from.
And would you
agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?
A page numer or
any indication of where to find it in the novel would be greatly
appreciated.
Many thanks.
Julie Hansen
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:05:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
In-Reply-To:
<199507210235.MAA02398@netmanager.dotc.gov.au> from
"Josephine
Thomson" at Jul 21, 95
12:37:17 pm
josephine
> I think so
many beat writers were caught between wanting the love and
>
companionship of a wife and a family and the need to be constantly running
> away from it
into something new. I don't think it was
mysoginistic in any
> way. I think a new way of life was opening up to
them but they were still
> very much in
the shackles of the old way (ie, perceptions of the woman's
> role). They may have had plenty of sex and plenty of
girlfriends but
> unltimately
the beat generation was a boy's own adventure because they still
> hadn't
figured out how to include women.
i guess i'm not a
very good feminist, but i have to say, why should
"boys"
have to figure out a way to include women?
why couldn't women
find their own
way? i was somewhat sad when i read
about terry...not
because her
husband beat her and she had a child to support, but because
she ran to
another man to be something... she left
her child with her
family (a
courageous move on her part) and she left her husband (even
more so), but she
didn't have the courage to go out and find herself without
jack to lead the
way. maybe this is elitist of me since
i've taken
responsibility
for my own body and decided to not have children, (there are
enough children
that need love, and need a responsible person to help them
survive, why have
more) but i don't define myself by the men in my life or the
children that i
bear.
i haven't brought
up kerouac's women since i finished otr because in my
opinion, kerouac
wasn't writing about the women or the sex or the
indulgences... these are all superficial aspects of what the
road means
to me now.
kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:31:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
In-Reply-To: <s00f6690.037@penguin.com> from
"Penguin Electronic" at Jul 21,
95 08:42:40 am
>
> I'd be
grateful for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road
> where the quote (I approximate):
> "The
only ones for me are the mad ones"
> comes from.
It's in the first
couple of chapters (I don't have the book here at work, but
you don't have to
go far to find it, first 20 pages or so I'd guess).
> And would
you agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?
Yes, and
particularly PLAYED OUT! If somebody
were presenting a project on
Shakespeare and
said "To be or not to be, that is the question" -- I would
not be too
impressed. Likewise here. Dig deeper please ...
(insert smileys
as needed)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:53:36 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News
Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
It's in part one,
chapter one, like within the first 5 pages of the book...
(and they're the
only ones for me too!)
I'd say it IS one
of the defining points not only of the book but of
the movement(!)
(one of the few
quotes of his in Microsoft's own cd-rom BOOkshelf, by the way!)
- Bruce Greeley
<v-bgree@microsoft.com>
----------
From: Penguin
Electronic
<ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Quote
from on the Road
Date: Friday,
July 21, 1995 8:42AM
I'd be grateful
for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road
where the quote (I approximate):
"The only
ones for me are the mad ones"
comes from.
And would you
agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?
A page numer or
any indication of where to find it in the novel would
be greatly
appreciated.
Many thanks.
Julie Hansen
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:26:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
In-Reply-To: <s00f6690.037@penguin.com>
Goodness,
Julie. I'd suggest reading OTR again to
find that quote--but
then I'm an
English teacher, and you'd suspect such a suggestion from one
so warped.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:23:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Win Mattingly
<GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:26:18 -0700
from
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
otr quote--it's
on page nine, about a third of the way down in the 25th anni-
versary edition
paperback (1980). Just sort of jumped
out at me b/c in this
dogeared
community college library copy it's highlighted with a big "wow" in
the margin. Who
said this generation of college youth had no souls?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:55:01 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas DeRosa
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
josephine,
just in case you weren't aware of it, there
is a book called minor
charactors, by
joyce johnson, that deals with the women involved in the
*movement*. i
guess she was a friend of kerouac's in the late fifties.
thats really all
i can say since i haven't read it yet. if i get around
to it anytime
soon i'll tell you more. or if any of you have read it,
you can.
namaste,
beatnik7
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:06:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
The quote is
toward the beginning, perhaps 1/4 from the start or before.
With a little browsing you should find it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:34:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire 362 7134
<mmaguire@OSM.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Cassady Video (kinda long)
I posted a
message here a few weeks ago asking if anyone had watched the
Neal
Cassady/Merry Pranksters videos put out by Key-Z productions, and
whether or not
they're worth buying (for $70). Unfortunately, noone
replied. :(
Last Friday, I
was able to rent one of these (for the Torontonians out
there, it was at
Suspect Video on Markham St.). It's entitled _Neal
Cassady_ and
claims to be a "series of raps" by Neal. It consists of
silent footage of
Neal, including scenes of him driving "Further" (the
bus), with
voiceovers of his monologues.
The first scenes,
in which Neal is dancing around a room, appear to be the
same as the
"Neal in the Backhouse" pictures found on the bottom,
righthand corner
of every page in Ken Kesey's _A Further Inquiry_. (You
can thumb the
pages and make it look as though Neal is actually moving.)
Anyway, some of
the movie monologues may be the same as those transcribed
in _A Further
Inquiry_. I can't say for sure 'cause I couldn't follow a
damn thing on
this tape. I had to turn it off halfway through. Does that
mean I lose my
membership in the Beat fanclub? I've felt both fascination
and repulsion
toward Neal Cassady since first encountering him in OTR and
especially after
reading Carolyn Cassady's _Off the Road_, but I was
really disturbed
by this video. Despite having read countless descriptions
of Neal's manic
behaviour, I was unprepared for actually seeing and
hearing it -- he
just NEVER stops moving. To be honest, it terrified me.
Perhaps the
disembodied voice made it worse. It sounded old, and reminded
me of the crazy
people who have that vacant look and just keep on talking
as you search
their eyes, trying to connect. Maybe it
was because Neal's
was the ONLY
voice. If there had been others, I could have witnessed a
connection.
I'm glancing
through the Further Inquiry transcripts as I write this, and
on paper, he's
the same Neal I'd always imagined and wanted him to be.
Sorry to burden
you with my inward struggle, but this is Dean Moriarty --
and I DIDN'T LIKE
HIM. On a philosophical level, I understand the appeal
of the "mad
ones", but I wondered how the same Jack who spent weeks in
solitude on
hillsides could spend weeks in a car with the guy on this
tape.
Can somebody help
me with this? Can somebody redefine the legend for me?
_____________________________________________________________________
Mary Maguire
mmaguire@osm.utoronto.ca Toronto, Canada
"... a hum
came suddenly into his head, which seemed to him
a Good Hum, such
as is Hummed Hopefully to Others."
_____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:56:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady Video (kinda long)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9507211940.C22349-0100000@oracle.osm.utoronto.ca>
Gosh, Neal
Cassady was the fastestmanalive! Of
course he never stops moving.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:21:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady Video (kinda long)
Mary wrote:
>Despite
having read countless descriptions
>of Neal's
manic behaviour, I was unprepared for actually seeing and
>hearing it --
he just NEVER stops moving. To be honest, it terrified me.
>Perhaps the
disembodied voice made it worse. It sounded old, and reminded
>me of the
crazy people who have that vacant look and just keep on talking
>as you search
their eyes, trying to connect.
This is because
this is what he became. Constantly using
methamphetamine
and ritalin along
with LSD most likely helped this happen.
The fellow
Kerouac hung
around with was greatly changed by then, just as the drunken
older Kerouac was
a reflection of his younger self. The
Cassady you saw
here was just a
few short years from pre-mature death.
I think i saw
these videos you saw around 13 years ago in Berkeley. Then
they were films
and some guy from Oregon (Ken Babs ???) brought them down
and showed them.
Charged a few dollars. They weren't very
good but were
still fun to see.
I think along
with the drug,s the dehumanization of him by the hippies,
making him
"The Fastest Man Alive" and, as he put it, "Keroassidy"
helped
to put him into
this detatched state. But mainly it was
the drug use that
escalated in the
early sixties that he took part in.
Also, and maybe
most importantly, read The First Third, his autobiography.
It is telling in
that he was actually born a street person as we would call
it now. His father was a wino and he was brought up
in the wino community.
It is to his
credit that he did as well as he did.
The effect of
prison also probably helped to bring about his downward slide.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:01:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
Minor Characters
is an excellent book. You might also
check out How I Became
Hettie Jones, (by
Hettie Jones) another fine book about women & the Beats.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 10:26:22 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
Minor Characters
is a wonderful book, and I recommend it to anyone with any
interest in
Kerouac and Cassidy. Joyce Johnson is a
good writer, she was
there, and she
provides a degree of objectivity not always found in writings
by/about the
Beats
--
John Lynch
"You told me
again, you preferred handsome men
But for me you
would make an exception"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:07:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: NYU Conference
The Kerouac
Connection is seeking articles, reviews, photos, and interviews
in connection
with the NYU Conference on The Writings of Jack Kerouac. There
are no specific
length and style restrictions for coverage of this event; if
you have
something to say, I will work with you on structuring it for
publication.
The deadline for
submissions is August 15, but contact me before that if you
are interested.
I am also
interested in audio tapes, transcriptions or original copies of the
talks presented.
Presenters may submit their work directly to the magazine
for
consideration.
I would also
appreciate any brochures, fliers, or posters about the event
that could be
sent my way.
Submissions may
be sent by email to keroconnec.aol.com or to:
The Kerouac
Connection
PO Box 462004
Escondido, CA
92046-2004
Submission on
disk (mac preferred) are encouraged.
Mitchell Smith,
Editor
The Kerouac
Connection
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:05:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac Connection
The Kerouac
Connection #27 (Winter 95 Issue) has just been published and is
now
available! This issue features papers
and reviews from the NYU Beat
Generation
Conference, including papers on Kerouac, Corso, and Ginsberg.
There is also a
memorial section on Charles Bukowski. The section contains
some Bukowski
poetry and drawings, plus memorial pieces by Neeli Cherkovski
(author of the
bio "Hank"), Gerald Locklin (longtime Buk friend and
co-editor), and
Michael C. Ford as well as poetry by same and others.
The NYU coverage
will continue in KC #28 due out in July with more papers as
well as up to the
minute news on the Kerouac Estate legal battles, from the
Jan Kerouac Press
Conference at the NYU Conference to current developments.
As always, the
issue contains news on Kerouac and Beat-related publications,
upcoming events,
listings of articles and papers published on Kerouac, and
letters from
around the world.
Subscriptions are
$20 for 4 issues (foreign orders may send personal checks
in your nation's
equivalent of $20--no cash please).
Single issues can be
obtained for
$5. If you wish to order both issues on
the NYU Conference (#27
& 28), you
can prepay $9 for both (or indicate that you want a 4 issue
subscription for
$19). Checks made payable to The Kerouac Connection. The
magazine address
is:
The Kerouac
Connection
PO Box 462004
Escondido, CA
92046-2004
I hope to hear
from you in the near future, and thank you for your interest.
Mitchell Smith,
Editor
The Kerouac
Connection
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:54:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Connection
Mitchell -
In addition to my
regular subscriber's copy, please send us
10 copies of new
issue with invoice at dealer's discount.
Thanks.
Jeffrey H.
Weinberg
Water Row Books
PO Box 438
Sudbury MA 01776
tel 508-485-8515
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:01:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
Thanks for all
the suggestions on the books to read - scribbling them down &
ringing the
bookstore is a great way to waste the first half hour at work on a
Monday morning.
Kristen, thanks
for making me think more specifically about what I meant to
say...still
thinking.
Josephine
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:57:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Raymond Holloway
<urhollow@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
In-Reply-To: <950705145645_25814261@aol.com>
On Wed, 5 Jul
1995, Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:
> Our
mail-order catalogue is filled with the best from Beat writers: Kerouac -
> Ginsberg -
Burroughs - Corso - Whalen - McClure, many others. Nice used
> copies,
scarce first editions, recordings, videos, posters, T-shirts, etc.
> Thousands of
Beat items in stock. Lots of Bukowski too. If you'd like to be
> placed on
our mailing list, please send your snail-mail address. It's free.
> Satisfaction
guaranteed. Free Search Service too.
> Cisco
Harland
> Water Row
Books
> PO Box 438
> Sudbury MA
01776
> Tel
508-485-8515
> Fax
508-229-0885
> e-mail
waterrow@aol.com
>
Suscribe Raymond
Holloway urhollow@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:40:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: NOWHERESVILLE
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: MAILER-DAEMON@emout04.mail.aol.com (Mail
Delivery Subsystem)
To: DanLauff@aol.com
Date: 95-07-27
00:45:39 EDT
-------
=_aaaaaaaaaa
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Description:
Session Transcript
550 cunyvm
(tcp)... Host unknown
550
beat-l@cunyvm... Host unknown
-------
=_aaaaaaaaaa
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Description:
Returned Content
Received: by
emout04.mail.aol.com
(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA222419851; Thu,
27 Jul 1995 00:37:31 -0400
Date: Thu, 27 Jul
1995 00:37:31 -0400
From:
DanLauff@aol.com
Return-Path:
<DanLauff@aol.com>
Message-Id:
<950727003731_123952034@aol.com>
To: beat-l@cunyvm
Subject:
Nowheresville
Readers should be
aware of NOWHERESVILLE an adult comic book-noir referred to
as Kerouac meets
Chandler. It is published by Caliber
Press. Try your local
comic dealer or
Caliber's 1-800-346-8940 for credit card orders.
-------
=_aaaaaaaaaa--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:11:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Simakowicz <Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject: MTV
Maybe it's just
me,but what is this On The Road business MTV is putting on
the airwaves with
these kids traveling cross country in an RV? Maybe I'm
getting old or
cynical. This is one of the times I'm thankful that I'm in my
forties.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:04:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV
In-Reply-To: <950728081119_42661723@aol.com> from
"Gene Simakowicz" at Jul 28,
95 08:11:20 am
>
> Maybe it's
just me,but what is this On The Road business MTV is putting on
> the airwaves
with these kids traveling cross country in an RV? Maybe I'm
> getting old
or cynical. This is one of the times I'm thankful that I'm in my
> forties.
>
it's a group of people
thinking they are doing something original.
(sort
of like sex. i'd
be surprised if any have read kerouac.) why television?
it's what they
relate to. i grew up watching way too much tv.
most people my
age have. i'm
24. would i roam around the country in
an rv while people tape
my every move and
mtv foots the bill? no. i see nothing
bold or innovative in
this. just goes
to show you, it's not age, it's perception.
*smirk*
kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:36:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV
everything has
been done before. except now, it's done
in color and
in an
air-conditioned RV (fully equipped, i'd bet).
back to the
future, but
without the sweat!
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:23:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lisa Bonelli <BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV
Didn't Wolf
follow around the Merry Prankster in Kesey's bus, driven
by Neal Cassady,
and then write a book about it: the electric
kool-aid acid
trip, or something to that effect. So, yes, everything
has been done before.
This is definately OTR meets the MTV generation.
lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:39:59 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: GOING DOWN 1
Comments: To:
derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>
whew! i finally edited out all those
unwanted "uncontrolled" char-
acters....of
course, maybe they will magically reappear, quite beyond
my comprehension
or control, when this arrives at its designated desti-
nation-points....this
is a story i wrote about 2-&-a-half years ago &
haven't done
anything with yet (finally succeeded ? in uploading it),
actually it's one
in a series of "chapters" of a projected hypothetical
"novel"
a few more of which i may send later....if anyone happens to be
in boston august
4-8 check out the international chinese philosophy
conference at
boston university (school of theology, i think), where i'll
be presenting a
paper on the i ching and derridean "writing"--perhaps as
part of a panel
where comparative issues concerned/intertwisted/inter-
twined with the
(real or imaginary) concepts of
"reason"/"rhizome"/"tao"
may be being
discussed, or at least entertained....
frank w. stevenson, national taiwan normal
university, taipei
GOING DOWN
=20
1. the roach
=20
in media res in molecular gaps,
interstellar interstices of=20
cowhide molecules
of his aged leather sandals, whisked from
the=20
market in kabul
in early august when they felt still fresh and=20
invigorated by
the crisp mountain air, his left foot came down on=20
solid concrete,
molecules densely packed, on a cracked and lit-
tered sidewalk in
taipei in a depressing light rain. he was=20
remembering his
trip across afghanistan and india to thailand and =20
the far east,
seventeen years earlier as the crow flies as he=20
reckoned it.=20
sad, a little. nostalgia. that's life, mon.
"'tis the fate=20
man (and cow?
cowhide molecule?) was born for/'tis moi you mourn
for."=20
sam was walking back to his apartment in
southern taipei, where
he dwelled with
taiwanese wife and daughter. he passed the univer-
sity building on
his right, glanced up at his 8th floor english=20
department office
(feeling faintly paranoid, on the vertiginous verge=20
or twinge of
nausea), then straight and left onto the narrow=20
alley, down one
block....he watched the leather sandals at the end =20
of grey
pipe-stems that were his pants come down on soft and gutted=20
concrete that
seemed to open abysmally in the rain (k'an, water, the=20
abysmal, one yang
between two yin's) beneath his feet.
how can i still have these old sandals? he
wondered. he=20
hadn't worn them
for years, thought the disappeared, then=20
found them the
night before purely by chance in an old cardboard=20
box and put them
on that morning on a whim....riding on a whim,=20
riding in a
boxcar...they were reminding him of temps perdu,=20
perhaps a
talisman, magic carpet lifting,
lilting....soft voices=20
calling, leather
squeaking, molecular mouse squeaks....lightly=20
wafting him
=A0ack, and/or lifting back to front, to the=20
"now"....relativity,
which train stopped and which=20
moving?....front
to back and back to front, deja vu, experience=20
of previous
lifetimes....all in the frontal & occipital lobes, he=20
thought, all in
the f-ing chemicals...tho that's an effrontery,=20
hah! to sheer
transcendental idealists, to la belle metaphysique=20
perhaps and la
plupart de la pensee continental, to paradigms,=20
pair o' ducks, or
(in a word) paraplui.=20
the rain was picking up so he opened his
umbrella and raised=20
it moments before reaching the ta men ko,
"main door mouth" of=20
his apt bldg
on left. then he was taking (the)
unwieldy key out=20
of left pants
pocket, after shifting umbrella to right hand in=20
heavy rain now,
and fumbling to unlock the clumsy iron door...inside,
the key back to pocket, folding the
umbrella...each action seemed
infinitely slow
and painful to him, as if caught between the molecular
moments and stuck
there in an endless viscous mass, a viscosity of glue,=20
airplane cement
or library paste.... his brain cells "pasted in"....
a great dumb
lumbering elephant wallowing in mud, in
the glutinous
morass, the
abyss, mise en abime, he commenced the slow and tiring walk=20
up five steep
flights of filthy stairs in a dark, warm and very humid=20
stairwell.=20
...it was....he remembered the feeling now
in northern india,=20
autumn sunshine
rich and balmy, almost decadent after (arid dried-shit-
smell) catharsis,
purification of the persian desert, crossing from=20
pakistan at
amritsar and loving the green trees and grass and the cows
everywhere,
owning the place, the milk, india springing you, incense=20
curry pulsing with life in varansi in the streets, down
by the sacred=20
river ganges
debauched bodies burned to ash and then
sitting at the
streetside stalls
drinking the bang lassies ("shoma bang mikashid?")
with flees
"the flying dutchman," who
almost set his beard on fire
by accident
lighting the hash pipe in katmandu as they rolled howl-
ing on the dusty
wooden floor, and walking beside the holy river=20
in bodh gaya with
mark.....that was great, the clear blue sky and=20
not too hot in
the north of india in when? november of '75? just=20
before heading
north for nepal.....the tree, the temples every-
where, and then
down by the river where buddha had walked, talk-
ing with mark...
he was lying now in his bathtub in taipei,
the water a less=20
dense medium than
concrete or leather, trying to cool off before=20
commencing his
morning's reading....or perhaps writing....
they were standing by the bodhi tree
beneath which buddha sat=20
and meditated
for many months on life as pain due to
human=20
attachment and
supposedly gained enlightenment. mark said,=20
"there's so
much suffering, i mean awareness of
suffering, under=20
that tree. so
much compassion. they say he was doing kind of a
christ trip, you
know, taking on himself the suffering of mankind
in order to
overcome it....in a way."
sam was looking at the tree.
"basically he just saw that it's=20
all passing
quickly, right?" the fleeting desire to get high=20
played in the
back corners of his mind but he tried to ignore it.=20
"yep, to see clearly, to really know
that it's all passing=20
quickly, going
down fast, everything going down and
we're also=20
going
down...."
but sam thought this a natural intuition of all life-
forms (even
extra-terrestrial ones?), embedded in their bones,=20
that they were
"going down fast," that they were beings in and of=20
time--he had
always felt this (poets, artists surely felt it,=20
that's why they
wanted to catch the fleeting meaning, freeze it=20
in the form of
their work)--not derived from or dependent on any=20
philosophy or
religion, though perhaps these images--buddha under=20
his tree--somehow
helped people to focus on this awareness, to=20
foreground
it....as art also did, in another way?....but just life's
fleetingness, not
necessarily it's "going down"?...."or perhaps just
passing, not
necessarily down or up...."
mark reflected. "right, but that's the
point: the just passing=20
is sad, its
painful to us because of our illusion of standing still,
thinking we
should be standing still, wanting to stand still and not
change but we
can't so our passing has the sense of being a downer....
i mean, that's
the point: we change, we die, right? we don't want to
die, become
nothing.
sam was thinking (now, in his tub, he was also thinking)=20
there was some
sort of paradox--life just passing because there's=20
death but death
is an end, a limit, no more passing--but he=20
couldn't quite
think it through. they had stared at the tree for=20
a long time; it
made an indelible impression. then they'd walked=20
down by the river
and mark had started talking about the beauty=20
of the river, the
meadow and trees and temples behind (gesturing=20
widely), the
beauty of all things. =20
"it's all beautiful but it's all going
down....or beautiful=20
because it's
going down?" sam took off his sandals and started=20
wading into the
shallow, pleasantly cool water. his thinking led=20
back to the same
old paradox: beauty in the passing or in the=20
illusory form
that would fix it?=20
mark stood just on the shore, pondering it.
"i don't know,=20
sam.
but...." (looking around him, laughing, gesturing widely with
both arms)
"....it's a high, right? it's an UP, man! it's fucking=20
BEAUTIFUL!"
He was laughing his mark-laugh.=20
"shit, you're right." this notion
reinforced his own paradox-
ical bent and sam
thought about it, wading in the shallow river=20
water.
"maybe all going down and so, as heraclitus would say,=20
going up at the
same time? the way up is the way down? the 'just=20
passing' equals
the simultaneous, paradoxical up-and-down?"
mark pondered it, pulling papers.....
he went on, feeling the molecules of water
around his feet:=20
"so =A0then
this awareness, is it purely contemplative, based on a=20
formal identity
of opposites (going down/coming up), or=20
pragmatic, based
on the actual experience of personally going=20
down the drain,
the great cosmic sink, and coming back up again=20
in an altered
form, the form of an enlightened being, a cockroach=20
for
example?"=20
mark pondered it, pulling papers from the
right side pocket=20
of his white
cotton vest and rolling up a "j" faster than anyone=20
else he'd known
could do it. then they were smoking one, mark=20
just on the shore
in white cotton pants, open vest and sandals,=20
sam in brown
cotton pants so thin and light rolled up, red cotton=20
vest open too to the breeze and sun, up to his
knees almost in=20
the sacred river,
onto which were falling lightly the ashes of=20
their momentary
passing. it was great. life was great. hemingway=20
fishing his
river, where fishing was also "tragic"...a balance,=20
perhaps....tathgatha,
"suchness".....
"or maybe there's no down. maybe
passing is just going up,"
mark said, the last
word choked off by the toke but he raised the=20
hand not holding
the joint to express the point & then they both=20
were holding
their breaths, sam as if in a sort of sympathetic=20
resonance, &
then bursting out. they were getting high.
sam shrugged his shoulders, arms extended
on either side with=20
both palms facing
up.
"no sam, sam, wait" passing him
the j "it's not that it's =20
all going down
and we maintain the illusion of going up--this is=20
what people
think, right? this is why they get ripped? (laughing=20
uncontrollably
with the burst of exhaled smoke)--but it's not that,=20
sam, no! it's
the OTHER WAY AROUND!"....he was
starting to get=20
excited in a
certain way he had, speaking faster, gesticulating,=20
eyes gleaming
from behind the black beard of youth....
sam held it as long as he could, feeling
the river between=20
his toes, and
then breathed out the smoke, thinking of molecules=20
in air
..."cruising at a certain altitude..." mark laughed and he=20
passed it
back..."do you want the roach?" passing it....thinking=20
of smoke
molecules in the air, of ezra pound (now, lying in his=20
tub, he thought)
("still stone dogs/caught in metamorphosis/biting
empty
air")....(or rilke: "throw the emptiness from your arms/to
feel the expanded
air")....or just frozen, in the abysmal water=20
running through
your veins like time, in the abysmal sky breathing
through ancient
lungs, in mid-flight, tasting the aftertaste,=20
ashes under the
tongue.....and then mark came in and they waded=20
silently in small
circles of river water glittering in sunlight.
they were
definitely stoned.
=20
or had been, once, he thought, lying naked
in luke-warm water=20
in his tub in
taipei about 16 years later. yes, they had passed=20
the joint and
gotten stoned that time and then that had passed.=20
the getting
stoned in bodh gaya, like a lot of things before and=20
since, had
passed. even the ashes of their passing that floated=20
in the warm
currents of the river had passed. you could freeze=20
the moments but
you also couldn't freeze them, like ice they=20
would be already
melting.=20
=20
he lay in the cooling water in his tub and
clenched his=20
fists. he felt
like a fucking roach that had climbed up out of=20
the drain into
the merely human world of money and concrete=20
walls, into shit
city, and then couldn't find its way back=20
down.....or was
it the other way around?
=20
=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=
=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:43:40 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: unstrung signifiers (fwd)
Comments: cc:
Seth Stevenson <SethSteve.@Brown.Edu>
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul
1995 19:46:04 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
Cc: Seth
Stevenson <SethStevenson@Brown.Edu>
Subject: unstrung
signifiers
BUT I do also like Auerbach's book,
especially as it is such a fine
piece of
"traditional" (pre-post-modern, pre-post-structuralist) scholarship
and of
"close reading" (that art apparently lost to all except perhaps the
Derrideans, oddly
enough)....of course, the question of what mimesis or
RE-PRESENTATION
finally IS and of whether ART is ultimately MIMESIS of
"WIRKLICHKEIT"
or something else (like maybe expression, impression,
mere
"pression," language games, unstrung chains of confused
"signifiers"
looking for a
quick fix, power "discourses"--with automatic transmission
and up to 500
horsepower--sort of swimming around with cleched fists and
copulating with
one another, as our foucauldians friends
the "cultural
critics"
might have it) is an ever-burning issue in literary theory......
Frank W. Stevenson, N.T.N.U., Taipei
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 03:13:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
Comments: cc:
Seymour360@aol.com
Of course this
MTV crap has gotten way out of hand. But
they are after all,
just making money
off the fact that nothing is original anyhow.
Everything,
everyone is
cool. Nothing you hold sacred is sacred
anymore. Even the most
raw and
underground, untainted thing you know, be it an author, artist,
whatever, will
soon be expolited and sold as t-shirts for $24.95 in the back
of Rolling
Stone. We have become a target
market. Even now hidden away in
some backwards
mailing list on the internet, people are at this very minute
plotting on ways
to sell our dreams in slick, gooey packaging.
Its really sad to
see all the great writers and ideas that came out of the
beat generation
boiling down to another hollywood flick or ads for kahkis at
the Gap. But perhaps it was always that way. Hollywood did a number with
Subterraneans and
look where they published Kerouac's articles in his later
days -
Playboy. He was so ashamed that he could
only get published in some
magazine he
couldnt even show to his mother. Could
it be that all of this
was expolited
from the beginning and we just have to overlook it. None of
the beat
generation authors were superheros to begin with and now they are
all just
perpetuating the image. Ginsberg is a
crabby old man living on old
ideas and
borrowed notions. Him and the rest of
the gang that are still
around hold
meetings and seminars, making money off their former
associations. Recently they held a Kerouac conference at
NYU for what, $350
a person. Doesnt anyone else see this as ironic
capitalism. I bet they were
all wearing Jerry
Garcia ties as well.
The thing to
remember is not how much money they are going to make selling
what has inspired
you as different flavors of bubble gum - but the fact that
you were inspired
in the first place. No one here would
deny that reading
Kerouac or
Bukowski or even Hemingway for the first time made you think that
you were the only
person in the world - that what you were reading was
especially for
you. Well, it is up to the point that
you dont get
disappointed
every time someone tries to sell your art as used tires. I mean
after all - we do
live in America. Explotation is what we
do best.
And besides all
of this has been done before. This same
message written, any
kind of angry
replies you may decide to write defend Ginsberg - they have
already been
written. Its like critizing Tarentino for ripping off John Woo
films - all we
know about film comes from other films, so why not? Were all
just living on
third generation images anyhow.
Nick.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:03:45 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)
Comments: To:
deleuze-guattari@jefferson.village.virginia.edu
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul
1995 19:02:35 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
Cc: phil-lit
<phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
Subject: Re:
RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)
Thank you, Ms. L.B. Bissell, for your
wondrous reply-post, full of
brilliance and
wit and at a level of sophistication (Oxford....hmmm, that
might explain
it....notice typical Yank inferiority complex at work here,
which may help to
explain following "ant" metaphor with Lilliputian amp-
litudes)
sufficient to keep me luxuriously "feeding" upon it
for days and
weeks, at my leisure in the late afternoon sun....(more or
less like a swarm
of hungry ants feeding upon the sweetest honied
carcass....)
I realize I'm probably too quick to reject
the (seemingly, but perhaps
I've
over-simplified them, perhaps that's the point) more blatantly political
and
"politically correct" forms of criticism so fashionable now, e.g.
cultural studies,
post-colonialism, etc: BUT I would still maintain (as
I did at a recent
American Lit conference here where evveryone was saying
we must emphasize
plurality and DIFFERENCES among ethnic groups, no
old-fashioned
notion of lit as expressing UNIVERSAL human qualities was
to be
allowed--because it's always the ones in "power" that define the
univversal, is
that it? this seems nonsense to me--that when Hamlet says
"Alas poor
Yorick,/I knew him well, Horatio/He was a fellow of infinite
jest"....or
when Chguang-tzu says "This is also that," there is something
deeper and more
"univversal" at work or play than the levvel of
socio-ethnic-political
"differences" or group-identities....)
fws
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:56:04 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: going down 2 (fwd)
Comments: To:
derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul
1995 18:55:15 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: phil-lit
<phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
Cc: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
Subject: going
down 2
journal: summer 1974
may 12:
climbed damavand with ted heal and his
brother tom saturday:
great experience!
getting cold and windy near the top, quite a
contrast with the
(sublunary) temperature down here....the best
part was the tea
houses going up and the the look on taxi driv-
ers' faces when
they saw 3 ferengi walking out at the bottom....
on the spur of
the moment we jumped in a cab and came down to
bist-o-char
esfand for dinner at the indian restaurant....
trying to forget elaine: bike, desert,
hashish all help a lot
(in reverse order
perhaps). jim baines says i've got to
"get a
lot
stronger" so i've started riding solo into the desert and
practicing my
sufi meditation at least once a week--usually
saturday
afternoons, sometimes sundays.
baines also said last week that
"persians have no souls."
(but he fucks
irani chicks in the ass whenever he gets the
chance.) amazing!
the scots even bigger bigots than the brits?
may 21:
ok! getting better at this desert meditation
thing--sometimes
focus on breath
like ted (zen technique supposedly) but it seems
to work better
when i take the desert itself as mantra, just try
to fill my mind with
the emptiness of the (concept of the) desert
itself. (in fact
it's what the sufis did according to mashid, but
he could be
bullshitting.) i can just cruise for about an hour
now, try to
stretch it out a little longer each time by holding
before me (in my
mind's eye, before my mind's nose?) the obvious
reward, which i
keep right in my shirt pocket. (but then, you
ask: how can
i "empty my mind"? or
"desert" my mind? good ques-
tion, mate.)
("dessert" my mind?) (or, au contraire, perhaps
drooling
pavlovian dogs are the best little meditators?)
may 28:
moved into ted heal's apt. yesterday. seems
it will work out
ok. (a
psychologist & a philosopher, after all.) teheran clear
and dry, not too
hot at denver altitude, crisp air invigorating,
snow-capped
damavand at 18,000 ft. shining as ever out window to
the
northeast...(actually my old window view was slightly better
but ted has a
larger, and better placed, balcony.)....feeling
good after first year of teaching....crazy ted likes to
talk
about
"learned helplessness-ness" with the students at school,
and most nights
he stays in his room alone listening to old
beatles and
stones records...."hey jude...."
june 3:
shit man, got too ripped after my
"deserted mind" session
yesterday, a
little too heavy on the "dessert": walked (stag-
gered?) a few
steps too far away (gazing at HORIZON, part of my
technique) from
bike and spent 2 hours walking in circles till i
found it, allah
be praised....(little prairie mounds just high
enough).... that
was cool though, i sort of enjoyed it--i somehow
knew i'd find my
bike as the alternative was too unthinkable....
just high enough!
june 10:
hah! mashid calls jim baines a "true
gold-digger"--irani term
for ass-fucker.
why have i never been interested in anal
sex with women? (of
course, not with
men, but why not even with women?) too "dirty,"
right? anyway,
what's the pt. given the joyous allure of alterna-
tive
orifices?....(FEMALE alternative orifices, maybe that's
also the pt.) BUT
they say the ass "feels just the same" as the cunt
etc etc....i
dunno, i think it's the shit association ("guilty by as-
sociation"),
just too dirty....(well, sigmund?) (of course, in the
middle east the
pt. is you never fuck a woman any other way, except
your wife or a
whore, as jim is quick to pt. out in explanation.)
but anyway i seem not to care about sex
these days--even
jim's lucid tales
of conquest no longer leave those stinging
pangs of envy
(jealousy?) or inadequacy in their wake, the tell-
tale sign if
there is one--too burned out i guess, brain cells
fried,
mind/spirit/SOUL (?) just too burnt, or too desserted....
....just high
enough!
june 14
fucking bike got ripped off thursday
night....(no insurance
of course, never
any insurance in this life)....that'll learn me
to get stoned
BEFORE early evening class so that i forget to
chain and lock it
to iron gate outside, per usual....(what was i
discussing in
that class? comparative world religions, hah!
specifically, on
thursday, confucianism....a "religion"?)
anyway this means i can't follow big
charlie pruitt on his
honda 350 to kabul when school ends in 2 weeks....wld
have been
cool....but i'll
just take the bus or train and meet him there
anyway!
not thinking too much of elaine any
more...that's a
relief....smoking
bang helps or perhaps in a sense "completes the
circle"
since that was a key factor leading to separation in
first
place....(?)....(food for thought there, mah freynd....)
june 27
fun time: final exams. the students are
great. i see less and
less of ted: he's
either in the fucking "fish bar" down near the
bazaar drinking
beer with jim (and sometimes mashid, and me)--but
ted chases no
women nor men neither, methinks--or holed up in his
room reading
psych books and listening to records. "hey jude,
don't be
afraid...."
july 3:
classes ended friday. i was getting
ready to blast out on a
"greyhound"
for the afghan border (charlie leaves on his bike
next week) when,
allah be praised, i learned yesterday that a
"hippy
bus" from london with a big DELHI sign on top--crossed
channel on a
ferry--has serendipitously stopped in our wholesome
city. young
freaks (all european) staying at cheap hotels down-
twn right in my
neighborhood so easy to meet them and get the
scoop. they have
a few seats, the driver gives me a good price if
i hop off in
kabul, as is my plan...should be
interesting....there
are some nice chicks, mainly english, german
and/or swiss (not
many french apparently, too bad) but they seem
pretty spaced
out....one german girl (whipped out the old
tongue on her)
said she was living in a bathroom of the shah
hotel so i
dunno....
july 6:
hippy bus leaves tomorrow.....or.....one day
soon? persian time
is rubber time,
as they say. "hey folks, it's rubber time!" (why
have they stayed
already a week in teheran? repairing bus or some such?
maybe, but
whenever i ask anyone including the driver, they're always
too far gone to
give a coherent answer. well, ok, a few brits were
talking about
seeing the mosques....maybe someone made a quick trip
down to
isfahan....)
so when the fuck will i buy a rug to send back to the
states? (well,
i'll be back here for another year at least but
mashid encourages
me to buy one soon: "sooner is better." maybe
prices going up i
dunno.) every time i go into the bazaar i get
lured by those
fucking bozos with their hash pipes and little
glasses of tea
and virtually "never get back out again" (as ted
heal puts it)
(interesting paradox here, since the problem is i
DON'T buy the
rug, but i haven't quite fathomed it yet)....(oh,
is see, that's
the pt., my life = the ongoing "bazaar" in that
sense.) hmmm.
(those guys just want to practice their english, i
think.
"shoma anglisi baladid?" or maybe think i can turn them on
to some foreign
chicks. especially yesterday since i was there
with frieda of
the hippy bus.)
july 10
all right! blasted out of dog city on the
hippy bus this
morning, mostly
sat in seat alone staring at the prairie, trying
to meditate sufi
style (sucking stomach up own asshole) and/or
decode overheard
german conversations, but i enjoyed it....sat
and talked with
mad frieda for about an hour but she's steadily
toking up like
many on bus, driver just breathing it all in!
about halfway to
mashad in the middle of fucking nowhere the bus
stopped and the
driver said he needed pure water for radiator
(seems hotter to
them than to me, that's for sure), so they had
me walking thru
this tiny village, mainly the chelo-kebab shops,
asking
"Shoma ab darid?" but all i could get was very ordinary
bottled water.
they're already carrying lots of this stuff so i
couldn't imagine
why the driver thought what i'd found would be
better for his
radiator.....(in fact the irani kid had probably
pissed in it for
good measure)....but he said the "native water
would be better
for the machine." conclusion: desert of eastern
iran (after
coming through turkey and western iran), with its
mystical visions,
has truly started to fry his brain. (maybe all
their brains.)
but: the bus is running.
got into mashad just at sunset, beautiful,
chelo kebab dinner
next to cheap
hotel where we sleep tonight....may have a shot at
frieda....walking
streets after dinner a young irani man, learn-
ing i was the one
american in the group, said in perfect english,
with a
delightfully world-weary, sardonic tone: "You dig a hole
anywhere in the
world and an american will crawl out." maybe i
was supposed to
be insulted but i just laughed my ass off. it's
true, of course.
trying not to smoke too much....what better
way to "get in
shape" for
afghanistan?!?
july 12
jesus christ, yesterday morning paul the
driver drove us out
to some "campground"
basically in the desert just east of mashad and
about 5
kilimeters west of the afghan border. looks like this time he
really IS fixing
something in the engine, but when i asked him he just
said he was
"cooling it off for a while." (?!) so these guys mostly
all hung around
the bus, napping inside or outside on their blankets
on the
ground--some under the bus to get out of the sun. i took a local
bus into town
with two brits and a swede and we spent all afternoon in
tea-shops. (not
much else to do, of course.) then we came back to the
bus around 6 and
they all started asking us to show them how to take the
bus into town to
a restaurant for dinner, so we did that. (these guys
are burnt, man.)
then all came back to the bus around nine and we all
slept in or on
our sleeping bags on the ground...luckily almost never
rains in the
desert, and mosquitoes are not bad....(they told me before
this is how they
slept most nights since leaving england but only now
did this fact
fully sink in.) in a word: i couldn't sleep for shit and
feel like shit
this morning. therefore:
i'm blasting, man! why wait for kabul to
jump off the hippy bus?
i can just hop a
local bus that goes right to the afghan border--a young
guy was just
telling me--and crosses it and then on the herat!
i can be in herat
tonight! (who knows how long paul and company will
be wasting away
in their little "campground" here?!) i'm blasting, man!
i'm psyched!
frank stevenson, taipei
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:09:24 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: coned pome
Comments: To:
derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>
coned
god
blown
open as
leaves to
twigs flown
innermown ear
sounding oceans
shellfish sparked
blind moles of hide
hanging halfcocked in
boneshot marrow skin so
skyspaced as dung bee tao
tao too buzz in cored nerve
arc of brain rhizomic burning
branched cone flung
treebarking
hair of wind wall wailing
saw
skullsong floating sea sung
tao bee dung as skyspaced
so skin marrow boneshot
in halfcocked hanging
hide of moles blind
sparked shellfish
oceans sounding
ear innermown
flown twigs
to leaves
as open
blown
dog
frank
stevenson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:23:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
Nick>Its like
critizing Tarentino for ripping off John Woo
films - all we
know about film comes from other films, so why not?
I think Tarantino
was criticized most heavily for ripping
off Ringo Lam's
City on Fire for
the film Resevoir Dogs.
Anyhow Nick, I
liked your mini-essay on on exploitation.
I don't really
agree per se,
(except with the Ginsberg comments). But
with this in mind
my comments are,
so what?
What you are saying
is true. But so what. Everyone needs to make money.
kerouac's books
were published by exploitation publishers.
Just like
Burrough's Junky.
Now I could agree
with you when it comes to hypocrisy. I
don't know if
that comes into
play here, but it is unrelated to the question of idealism
except that the
staunchest idealists put themselves in the best positions
to become first
rate hypocrits.
And since the
topic here is MTV bus rides or something (I don't get cable)
wasn't there a
show in the fifties or early sixties about two guys driving
around in a car
(Route 66 maybe?). Kerouac actually sued
back then for
them stealing his
On the Road premise.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 22:23:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
My gosh this is a
cynical bunch. Their TV program looks
more interesting
than most of the
mindslop on TV. Why pre-judge them? Why pre-judge anybody?
In fact, except for violence, why judge
anybody at all.
I think the
overriding message of Kerouac's writings is a sort of childlike
optimism and
wonder with the world. I'd love to see
more of that on this
list.
my 2 cents.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 06:52:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jacob Miller <CrowCntr@AOL.COM>
Subject: Quality Poetry
Hello All!!!
I'm looking for
poetry submissions, book reviews (of new and old poetry...
or anything...) and music reviews for a new
poetry newsletter/ magazine.
I've read many other magazines, and decided it
was time to publish a
*quality* poetry
zine. I am just starting here, so please
bear with me...
Guidelines:
Just about
anything goes...
POETRY: (I need
LOTS of this....)
Any subject (within reason and good taste)
Length: No more than , oh about 75-100
lines? (negotiable)
Previously unpublished (I don't want to
get into any copywrite wars...)
BOOK REVIEWS:
I need reviews on new poet's books,
established poet's books, or any
good books you've
read and think others would like to read
( probably two or
three reviews per
issue, depends on length)
Length: please no more than 300-500 words
(also negotiable)
MUSIC:
I need reviews and/or opinions on newly
released and classic albumns.
Reviews should be analyzing the poetic
aspects of the music and lyrics.
Length:
300-500 words (also negotiable)
SHORT STORY: (sometimes...)
If I have room, I will occasionally
publish a short story...
This can be on any subject, fiction, or
non, and no longer that 1500
words.
ADVERTISING:
If
you have a chapbook, or contest, or whatever, you can put an ad (2
1/2" x 3
1/2") in this zine for $25 for one issue.
PAYMENT:
Payment for a published writer in this
magazine, will be two free
copies of the
issue in which s/he's featured. Extra
copies may be purchased
for two $.32
stamps each.
PRICE!!!!!!!:
This is a free
publication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am planning a sample to be published
in November of this year as the
Premier
issue! If you would like to recieve a
copy please send two $.32
stamps to:
MR JONES:
c/o Jacob Miller
8L Lakeside Drive
Ledyard, CT 06339
Thank you all for taking the time to read
this...
-> Please E-Mail *All* submissions to me at
CrowCntr@aol.com
-> Please Label your submission - MJ SUB:
"Title or subject of submission
here..." - in the subject line of
the mail.
-> Remeber to include your real name, and real
address with your
submission.
Jacob Miller -
CrowCntr@aol.com
P.S. - I will try
to include a brief crtique with all submissions, whether
accepted or
not. :)
---------------------------
"Figure
it! The pining peever! To a Mookse."
-James Joyce - "Finnegan's
Wake"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 10:32:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: coned pome
Frank
StevensonWrote:
>a coned pome
Great poem,
Frank. Excellent courage to post
it; I never would, way too
chicken.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 10:36:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
Howard Park
<Hpark4@AOL.COM> Wrote:
|
|
| My gosh this is
a cynical bunch. Their TV program looks
more interesting
| than most of
the mindslop on TV. Why pre-judge them? Why pre-judge
anybody?
| In fact, except for violence, why judge
anybody at all.
Thanks for this,
Howard. On the strength of all the other
mails, I was going
to go home and
burn all the photos my husband and I took when we drove around
Australia. We knew we weren't the first adventurers but
we had a fabulous
time nonetheless,
met some interesting and unusual people and it felt fresh
and new to us;
not at all like it had all been done before.
my 5 cents worth
(2 cent coins aren't in circulation here no more)
-Josephine
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:18:46 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: chinese phil conference
Comments: cc:
cybermind@jefferson.village.virginia.edu
"1 more time," the man muttered to
himself, trying to send out the
note in the tiny
bottle onto the chaotic tossing grey sea: it's my last
chance as fly to
boston tomorrow (gain a day midflight, pretty weird), am
to present a
paper on "i ching" and derridean "writing" (with perhaps
some
mention also of deleuze's (& jd's) "fold"/spinozist
expression/implic/explication/[un]"folding" of world)
at an int'l
conference of chinese philsophy at B.U. in Boston Aug. 4-8
(though don't
know which day yet): anyway, if anyone happens to be in
boston then,
welcome to come to this conference--sponsored by Robert
Neville, Dean of
School of Theology--on any of these days and see what's
happening......
although I'm notoriously metaphysical and
virtually "APOLITICAL"
(or maintain the illusion of being so) if this
(illusion) is still
possible in our
hyper-political age, many of these scholars of chinese
phil are very
political indeed, and quite a few will be from PRC i think
(i may need to
help "guide" some of them around town, should be fun) and
these cats tend
to be VERRRRY political and see phil as a totally and
manifestly
political instrument, as 'twere (which strangely i never could)
....will be much
awareness of Harry Wu, PRC/ROC (Taiwan)/USA relations,
etc etc....(sans
doute)....Hope to maybe meet a few of you invisible
creatures
there....
Frank W. Stevenson
National Taiwan Normal
University, Taipei
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:41:18 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: coned pome
In-Reply-To: <199507310029.KAA17836@netmanager.dotc.gov.au>
tanks mon! (thank you, ms. thomson.) i wrote
that about 2 yrs ago i
think...wldn't
have thought it needed "courage" to post such a poem (just
vanity perhaps, i
dunno)--i mean, not too shocking or "obscene" or
anthing like
that....just kind of free-form expression, maybe sligthly
schizophrenic
around the gills.....("why, i've posted such shocking
things you
wouldn't believe! why, i'll post ANYTHING man!
i'll...i'll....i'lllll") fws, taipei (but in boston tomorrow!)
On Mon, 31 Jul
1995, Josephine Thomson wrote:
> Frank
StevensonWrote:
>
> >a coned
pome
>
> Great poem,
Frank. Excellent courage to post
it; I never would, way too
> chicken.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:50:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.90.950729190309.2018G-100000@sun4> from "Frank
Stevenson" at Jul 29, 95
07:03:45 pm
> Thank you, Ms. L.B. Bissell, for your
wondrous reply-post, full of
> brilliance
and wit and at a level of sophistication (Oxford....hmmm, that
> might
explain it....notice typical Yank inferiority complex at work here,
> which may
help to explain following "ant" metaphor with Lilliputian amp-
> litudes)
sufficient to keep me luxuriously "feeding" upon it
> for days and
weeks, at my leisure in the late afternoon sun....(more or
> less like a
swarm of hungry ants feeding upon the sweetest honied
> carcass....)
> I realize I'm probably too quick to reject
the (seemingly, but perhaps
> I've
over-simplified them, perhaps that's the point) more blatantly political
> and
"politically correct" forms of criticism so fashionable now, e.g.
> cultural
studies, post-colonialism, etc: BUT I would still maintain (as
> I did at a
recent American Lit conference here where evveryone was saying
> we must
emphasize plurality and DIFFERENCES among ethnic groups, no
>
old-fashioned notion of lit as expressing UNIVERSAL human qualities was
> to be
allowed--because it's always the ones in "power" that define the
> univversal,
is that it? this seems nonsense to me--that when Hamlet says
> "Alas
poor Yorick,/I knew him well, Horatio/He was a fellow of infinite
>
jest"....or when Chguang-tzu says "This is also that," there is
something
> deeper and
more "univversal" at work or play than the levvel of
>
socio-ethnic-political "differences" or group-identities....)
>
> fws
i am ignorant of
the response you are referring to, but as for your view
about the
"politically correct'ness" being thrown about here, i must
agree. it's a
reality that takes away from unification.
the americans
who emphasize the
importance of pc'ness are relentless in the pursuit of
breaking groups
into smaller subunits until a connection ceases to exist.
i recently heard
a speaker in biology give a talk about vitamin d
production in
relation to melanin production and uv exposure.
her
science spoke of
the only reason physical differences exist...it was the
best talk i've
heard in a long time. i got to thinking that it's the
physical
differences that contribute to the fear of the societal
differences...it
seems to be a neverending ride that leads to
intolerance. her
talk wasn't so focused that it narrowed the mind of the
listener as many science
people do. she brought us all together.
i have enjoyed
your submissions. i, too, have experienced the meditative
effect of
nature. (i find that focusing on my
breath leads me to the voices
that flow in my
mind..not peaceful at all) and i look forward to your
talk about the i
ching. i've spoken with pagans and got
interested in the
connection with
runes and the i ching. seems like if we
go back further
and further...we
all follow a similar path. slight
modifications turn
into drastic differences
only when we perceive them as such.
i'm not a
literary scholar. in fact, you
intimidate me, fws. but the
tao brings me
balance and as long as i see this, there is peace.
k
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:21:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.90.950729185553.2018C-100000@sun4> from "Frank
Stevenson" at Jul 29, 95
06:56:04 pm
fws
reading your
journal entries reminded me of a discussion i had with a
friend the other
day. he's completely devoted to proust and when i asked
him if that's why
he connected with neal cassidy, he told me that he
never read _on the road_, but that he knew cassidy was
(among other things)
a habitual
masturbator. i got to thinking about
why... he was seeking
the pleasure and
the experience, but he probably didn't know of another
way to experience
intense physical pleasure other than climax.
so he did
it again and
again, leaving him empty until the next time.
you mention the
"dirtiness"
of anal sex...yet tantric sex concentrates in this area for a
man... (i wonder if cassidy had experienced this, or
if his pleasure was
always stop and
go..never reaching a higher level of sensation)
i guess this is
all related to feelings i have about false starts in my
life...traveling
along a path, not feeling doubt or regret, not feeling
much of anything.
never questioning, just following, then the spark...my
mind opens and i
see things are not as they seemed. i am frightened and
doubtful...all my
life i've thought that if i made decisions that were true to
myself, i
wouldn't regret them, i mean, regret is useless, it can't change
things. but here i am...no longer in pursuit of a
goal i thought i believed in.
how could i have
let myself go so far without questioning? like many in
science, i put on
blinders...i won't get into it...it's boring.
i said that you
intimidate me...intimidation is the wrong word...(i do not
choose words
well)...it's your life and your choices that overwhelm me...at
least from what
you have written to this group. the
feeling that i am
starting over in
my pursuits scares me...realizing there is so little i know
compared to what
is out there... and yet i've never been more alive. maybe
i've just transferred
to a different route.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 03:04:31 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<199507311721.NAA08601@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
Thanks for your
note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
(based that is on
true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
east) from 1974,
but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
and stuck in a
pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
this stuff more
and more and live in the memories, and always have less
qualms about
"publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
newfound desire
to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
or embarrassed to
do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
thing about those
years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
clear from the
journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
that was my whole
life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
one doesn't
"need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
etc)...(i never
thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
oral sex etc in
those days & only added that entry because i know how
people NOW are so
obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
"political"
now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of
(well, ok) sex,
DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
think living in
asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
i'll be in boston
at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
come down to
haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so....
frank stevenson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:12:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re:
going down 2 (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.90.950801025635.28856E-100000@sun4> from "Frank
Stevenson" at Aug 1, 95
03:04:31 am
>
> Thanks for
your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
> (based that
is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
> east) from
1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
> and stuck in
a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
> this stuff
more and more and live in the memories, and always have less
> qualms about
"publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
> newfound
desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
i read something
and feel as if that person is here with me right
now...i'm sure
many others do. i know what you mean about the
therapy..it's a
catharsis for me...only difference is that i do care too
much what other
people think. have to get over this.
> or
embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
> i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
> thing about
those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
> clear from
the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
> that was my
whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
> one doesn't
"need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
> etc)...(i
never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
> oral sex etc
in those days & only added that entry because i know how
> people NOW
are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
>
"political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's)
of
i think the key
word is obsession..about sexuality, about drugs, about
government/politics
and i think it comes from understanding only certain
aspects and not
the overall picture. this is only my
guess, but peyote
and coca leaves
can bring about heightened awareness yet when their
abused (or
altered chemically to be more concentrated) you lose that...it
goes
downhill. a big problem i see is
intolerance due to lack of
understanding
about sexuality...politicians and clergy define sexual
boundaries and
sexuality isn't black and white. one
thing i've always
believed in is
the constitution...freedom...but too many want
control...
too many sides
pulling..something's gonna give.
> (well, ok)
sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
> think living
in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
> i'll be in
boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
> come down to
haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so....
frank stevenson
don't know of a
time that i would like to be frozen in...i think i've
been stuck for
too long in the nothingness i felt in the 80's.
kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:33:57 -1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
>>
>> Thanks
for your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
>> (based
that is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
>> east)
from 1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
>> and
stuck in a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
>> this
stuff more and more and live in the memories, and always have less
>> qualms about
"publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
>> newfound
desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
>
>i read
something and feel as if that person is here with me right
>now...i'm
sure many others do. i know what you mean about the
>therapy..it's
a catharsis for me...only difference is that i do care too
>much what
other people think. have to get over
this.
>
>> or
embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
>> i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
>> thing
about those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
>> clear
from the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
>> that was
my whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
>> one
doesn't "need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
>>
etc)...(i never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
>> oral sex
etc in those days & only added that entry because i know how
>> people
NOW are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
>>
"political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's)
of
>
>i think the
key word is obsession..about sexuality, about drugs, about
>government/politics
and i think it comes from understanding only certain
>aspects and
not the overall picture. this is only my
guess, but peyote
>and coca
leaves can bring about heightened awareness yet when their
>abused (or
altered chemically to be more concentrated) you lose that...it
>goes
downhill. a big problem i see is
intolerance due to lack of
>understanding
about sexuality...politicians and clergy define sexual
>boundaries
and sexuality isn't black and white. one
thing i've always
>believed in
is the constitution...freedom...but too many want
>control...
>too many
sides pulling..something's gonna give.
>
>> (well,
ok) sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
>> think
living in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
>> i'll be
in boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
>> come
down to haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so.... frank stevenson
>
>don't know of
a time that i would like to be frozen in...i think i've
>been stuck
for too long in the nothingness i felt in the 80's.
>kristen
>
>please stop
jamming my mailbox with this personal shit, keep on the beat
topic or use
e-mail.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:31:45 -1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
>Thanks for
your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
>(based that
is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
>east) from
1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
>and stuck in
a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
>this stuff
more and more and live in the memories, and always have less
>qualms about
"publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
>newfound
desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
>or
embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
>i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
>thing about
those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
>clear from
the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
>that was my
whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
>one doesn't
"need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
>etc)...(i
never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
>oral sex etc
in those days & only added that entry because i know how
>people NOW
are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
>"political"
now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of
>(well, ok)
sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
>think living
in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
>i'll be in
boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
>come down to
haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so....
frank stevenson
>
>this has
nothing to do with the topic..............find another forum or,
better
yet, confine your
correspondence to e-mail.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:29:54 -1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
>fws
>
>reading your
journal entries reminded me of a discussion i had with a
>friend the
other day. he's completely devoted to proust and when i asked
>him if that's
why he connected with neal cassidy, he told me that he
>never
read _on the road_, but that he knew
cassidy was (among other things)
>a habitual
masturbator. i got to thinking about
why... he was seeking
>the pleasure
and the experience, but he probably didn't know of another
>way to
experience intense physical pleasure other than climax. so he did
>it again and
again, leaving him empty until the next time.
you mention the
>"dirtiness"
of anal sex...yet tantric sex concentrates in this area for a
>man... (i wonder if cassidy had experienced this, or
if his pleasure was
>always stop
and go..never reaching a higher level of sensation)
>
>i guess this
is all related to feelings i have about false starts in my
>life...traveling
along a path, not feeling doubt or regret, not feeling
>much of
anything. never questioning, just following, then the spark...my
>mind opens
and i see things are not as they seemed. i am frightened and
>doubtful...all
my life i've thought that if i made decisions that were true to
>myself, i
wouldn't regret them, i mean, regret is useless, it can't change
>things. but here i am...no longer in pursuit of a goal
i thought i
believed in.
>how could i
have let myself go so far without questioning? like many in
>science, i
put on blinders...i won't get into it...it's boring.
>
>i said that
you intimidate me...intimidation is the wrong word...(i do not
>choose words
well)...it's your life and your choices that overwhelm me...at
>least from
what you have written to this group. the
feeling that i am
>starting over
in my pursuits scares me...realizing there is so little i know
>compared to
what is out there... and yet i've never been more alive. maybe
>i've just
transferred to a different route.
>
>what the hell
does this have to do with beat discussion?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:46:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: VJ
<the.Literary.Denim@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Frank Stevenson
Get off the
channel, Frank. Yr off topic, yr topic
is noise, yr writing is
mediocre, and yr
a nuisance.
Everyone else . .
. sorry for the flame, but this guy's ego has poured into
this channel for
more than I can be quiet about, and this is the only way I
can get at him.
Frank: go away!
\\|//
(o o)
--------------oOO--(
)--OOo----------------------
vj@primenet.com |
City Pigeons
Tempe, AZ |
Ate Popcorn on Mkt St.
| But Now They're Dead
--------------ooooO---Ooooo----------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:54:04 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Frank Stevenson
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:46:21
-0700
At least Frank is
posting something. Taking it to e-mail
becomes a valid
thing to do at a
certain point, I agree, but I don not think frank has to go
away.
I would rather
get Frank's stuff than these whiner mssges from Hawaii and
Tempe.
Tim
(To hear Jack
speak:
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/!gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
)
ugh that should be ~gallaher (not !gallaher)
aye yo
ok
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:02:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Frank & Kirsten are okay by me
To VJ & Ray
& anyone else:
I quite enjoyed
Kirsten & Frank's contributions. And
what they are saying is
relevant to this
newsgroup: the search for how to live. I
think it is
impossible to
discuss the beats. or any other literature which really moves
you, without
coming back to the personal. Besides,
we're all meant to be
friends of a sort
and what's wrong with tolerating someone branching off, just
a little, from
the topic?
Josephine
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:06:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: going down to get a dictionary
Sorry: Kristen,
not Kirsten.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:25:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lisa Bonelli
<BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Frank & Kirsten are okay by me
Who is Frank?
It is not so much
the subject, but when I logged on today, I
thought some how
the freeway signs on the information highway ahd
become reversed
and I got on the wrong path. I don't quite understand
how those
messages tie in to a discussion of Beat writers. Yes,
sometimes its
quite on this newsgroup, but personally I'm not in favor
of random
postings that are not related to the Beats. I'm probably not
alone in having @
50 msgs. a day to get through, and prefer to at least
know what the
heck is going on when I pull up a message. This is definately
NOT a FLAME of
Frank, Kirsten or anyone else. Just MHO.
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 23:02:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John A. Urciuoli"
<JUrciuoli@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
I read your
comment and fully agreed. You may want
to read a fine book
titled Minor
Characters. This book delves into the
exact territory you are
discussing. It is written by Joyce Johnson. She was Kerouacs girlfriend
during the two
years surrounding the publication of On The Road. Very
enlightening. Check it out.
John-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 23:48:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Simakowicz
<Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
Interesting
comments and observations...really.
But are you guys
in the right room? Anyway, just got into Chinaski's
HOLLYWOOD...If
you're a Bukowski fan, you'll enjoy it.
It's about the making
of the BARFLY
film.
Maintain,
Gene
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul
1995 18:55:15 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: phil-lit
<phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
Cc: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
Subject: going
down 2
journal: summer 1974
may 12:
climbed damavand with ted heal and his
brother tom saturday:
great experience!
getting cold and windy near the top, quite a
contrast with the
(sublunary) temperature down here....the best
part was the tea
houses going up and the the look on taxi driv-
ers' faces when
they saw 3 ferengi walking out at the bottom....
on the spur of
the moment we jumped in a cab and came down to
bist-o-char
esfand for dinner at the indian restaurant....
trying to forget elaine: bike, desert,
hashish all help a lot
(in reverse order
perhaps). jim baines says i've got to
"get a
lot
stronger" so i've started riding solo into the desert and
practicing my
sufi meditation at least once a week--usually
saturday
afternoons, sometimes sundays.
baines also said last week that
"persians have no souls."
(but he fucks
irani chicks in the ass whenever he gets the
chance.) amazing!
the scots even bigger bigots than the brits?
may 21:
ok! getting better at this desert meditation
thing--sometimes
focus on breath
like ted (zen technique supposedly) but it seems
to work better
when i take the desert itself as mantra, just try
to fill my mind
with the emptiness of the (concept of the) desert
itself. (in fact
it's what the sufis did according to mashid, but
he could be
bullshitting.) i can just cruise for about an hour
now, try to
stretch it out a little longer each time by holding
before me (in my
mind's eye, before my mind's nose?) the obvious
reward, which i
keep right in my shirt pocket. (but then, you
ask: how can
i "empty my mind"? or
"desert" my mind? good ques-
tion, mate.)
("dessert" my mind?) (or, au contraire, perhaps
drooling
pavlovian dogs are the best little meditators?)
may 28:
moved into ted heal's apt. yesterday. seems
it will work out
ok. (a
psychologist & a philosopher, after all.) teheran clear
and dry, not too
hot at denver altitude, crisp air invigorating,
snow-capped
damavand at 18,000 ft. shining as ever out window to
the
northeast...(actually my old window view was slightly better
but ted has a
larger, and better placed, balcony.)....feeling
good after first year of teaching....crazy ted likes to
talk
about
"learned helplessness-ness" with the students at school,
and most nights
he stays in his room alone listening to old
beatles and
stones records...."hey jude...."
june 3:
shit man, got too ripped after my
"deserted mind" session
yesterday, a
little too heavy on the "dessert": walked (stag-
gered?) a few
steps too far away (gazing at HORIZON, part of my
technique) from
bike and spent 2 hours walking in circles till i
found it, allah
be praised....(little prairie mounds just high
enough).... that
was cool though, i sort of enjoyed it--i somehow
knew i'd find my
bike as the alternative was too unthinkable....
just high enough!
june 10:
hah! mashid calls jim baines a "true
gold-digger"--irani term
for ass-fucker.
why have i never been interested in anal
sex with women? (of
course, not with
men, but why not even with women?) too "dirty,"
right? anyway,
what's the pt. given the joyous allure of alterna-
tive
orifices?....(FEMALE alternative orifices, maybe that's
also the pt.) BUT
they say the ass "feels just the same" as the cunt
etc etc....i
dunno, i think it's the shit association ("guilty by as-
sociation"),
just too dirty....(well, sigmund?) (of course, in the
middle east the
pt. is you never fuck a woman any other way, except
your wife or a
whore, as jim is quick to pt. out in explanation.)
but anyway i seem not to care about sex
these days--even
jim's lucid tales
of conquest no longer leave those stinging
pangs of envy
(jealousy?) or inadequacy in their wake, the tell-
tale sign if
there is one--too burned out i guess, brain cells
fried,
mind/spirit/SOUL (?) just too burnt, or too desserted....
....just high
enough!
june 14
fucking bike got ripped off thursday
night....(no insurance
of course, never
any insurance in this life)....that'll learn me
to get stoned
BEFORE early evening class so that i forget to
chain and lock it
to iron gate outside, per usual....(what was i
discussing in
that class? comparative world religions, hah!
specifically, on
thursday, confucianism....a "religion"?)
anyway this means i can't follow big
charlie pruitt on his
honda 350 to kabul when school ends in 2 weeks....wld
have been
cool....but i'll
just take the bus or train and meet him there
anyway!
not thinking too much of elaine any
more...that's a
relief....smoking
bang helps or perhaps in a sense "completes the
circle"
since that was a key factor leading to separation in
first
place....(?)....(food for thought there, mah freynd....)
june 27
fun time: final exams. the students are
great. i see less and
less of ted: he's
either in the fucking "fish bar" down near the
bazaar drinking
beer with jim (and sometimes mashid, and me)--but
ted chases no
women nor men neither, methinks--or holed up in his
room reading
psych books and listening to records. "hey jude,
don't be
afraid...."
july 3:
classes ended friday. i was getting
ready to blast out on a
"greyhound"
for the afghan border (charlie leaves on his bike
next week) when,
allah be praised, i learned yesterday that a
"hippy
bus" from london with a big DELHI sign on top--crossed
channel on a
ferry--has serendipitously stopped in our wholesome
city. young
freaks (all european) staying at cheap hotels down-
twn right in my
neighborhood so easy to meet them and get the
scoop. they have
a few seats, the driver gives me a good price if
i hop off in
kabul, as is my plan...should be
interesting....there
are some nice chicks, mainly english, german
and/or swiss (not
many french apparently, too bad) but they seem
pretty spaced
out....one german girl (whipped out the old
tongue on her)
said she was living in a bathroom of the shah
hotel so i
dunno....
july 6:
hippy bus leaves tomorrow.....or.....one
day soon? persian time
is rubber time,
as they say. "hey folks, it's rubber time!" (why
have they stayed
already a week in teheran? repairing bus or some such?
maybe, but
whenever i ask anyone including the driver, they're always
too far gone to
give a coherent answer. well, ok, a few brits were
talking about
seeing the mosques....maybe someone made a quick trip
down to
isfahan....)
so when the fuck will i buy a rug to send back to the
states? (well,
i'll be back here for another year at least but
mashid encourages
me to buy one soon: "sooner is better." maybe
prices going up i
dunno.) every time i go into the bazaar i get
lured by those
fucking bozos with their hash pipes and little
glasses of tea
and virtually "never get back out again" (as ted
heal puts it)
(interesting paradox here, since the problem is i
DON'T buy the
rug, but i haven't quite fathomed it yet)....(oh,
is see, that's
the pt., my life = the ongoing "bazaar" in that
sense.) hmmm.
(those guys just want to practice their english, i
think.
"shoma anglisi baladid?" or maybe think i can turn them on
to some foreign
chicks. especially yesterday since i was there
with frieda of
the hippy bus.)
july 10
all right! blasted out of dog city on the
hippy bus this
morning, mostly
sat in seat alone staring at the prairie, trying
to meditate sufi
style (sucking stomach up own asshole) and/or
decode overheard
german conversations, but i enjoyed it....sat
and talked with
mad frieda for about an hour but she's steadily
toking up like
many on bus, driver just breathing it all in!
about halfway to
mashad in the middle of fucking nowhere the bus
stopped and the
driver said he needed pure water for radiator
(seems hotter to
them than to me, that's for sure), so they had
me walking thru
this tiny village, mainly the chelo-kebab shops,
asking
"Shoma ab darid?" but all i could get was very ordinary
bottled water.
they're already carrying lots of this stuff so i
couldn't imagine
why the driver thought what i'd found would be
better for his
radiator.....(in fact the irani kid had probably
pissed in it for
good measure)....but he said the "native water
would be better
for the machine." conclusion: desert of eastern
iran (after
coming through turkey and western iran), with its
mystical visions,
has truly started to fry his brain. (maybe all
their brains.)
but: the bus is running.
got into mashad just at sunset, beautiful,
chelo kebab dinner
next to cheap
hotel where we sleep tonight....may have a shot at
frieda....walking
streets after dinner a young irani man, learn-
ing i was the one
american in the group, said in perfect english,
with a
delightfully world-weary, sardonic tone: "You dig a hole
anywhere in the
world and an american will crawl out." maybe i
was supposed to
be insulted but i just laughed my ass off. it's
true, of course.
trying not to smoke too much....what better
way to "get in
shape" for
afghanistan?!?
july 12
jesus christ, yesterday morning paul the
driver drove us out
to some
"campground" basically in the desert just east of mashad and
about 5
kilimeters west of the afghan border. looks like this time he
really IS fixing
something in the engine, but when i asked him he just
said he was
"cooling it off for a while." (?!) so these guys mostly
all hung around
the bus, napping inside or outside on their blankets
on the
ground--some under the bus to get out of the sun. i took a local
bus into town
with two brits and a swede and we spent all afternoon in
tea-shops. (not
much else to do, of course.) then we came back to the
bus around 6 and
they all started asking us to show them how to take the
bus into town to
a restaurant for dinner, so we did that. (these guys
are burnt, man.)
then all came back to the bus around nine and we all
slept in or on
our sleeping bags on the ground...luckily almost never
rains in the
desert, and mosquitoes are not bad....(they told me before
this is how they
slept most nights since leaving england but only now
did this fact
fully sink in.) in a word: i couldn't sleep for shit and
feel like shit
this morning. therefore:
i'm blasting, man! why wait for kabul to
jump off the hippy bus?
i can just hop a
local bus that goes right to the afghan border--a young
guy was just
telling me--and crosses it and then on the herat!
i can be in herat
tonight! (who knows how long paul and company will
be wasting away
in their little "campground" here?!) i'm blasting, man!
i'm psyched!
frank stevenson, taipei
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:09:24 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: coned pome
Comments: To:
derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>
coned
god
blown
open as
leaves to
twigs flown
innermown ear
sounding oceans
shellfish sparked
blind moles of hide
hanging halfcocked in
boneshot marrow skin so
skyspaced as dung bee tao
tao too buzz in cored nerve
arc of brain rhizomic
burning
branched cone flung
treebarking
hair of wind wall wailing
saw
skullsong floating sea sung
tao bee dung as skyspaced
so skin marrow boneshot
in halfcocked hanging
hide of moles blind
sparked shellfish
oceans sounding
ear innermown
flown twigs
to leaves
as open
blown
dog
frank
stevenson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:23:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
Nick>Its like
critizing Tarentino for ripping off John Woo
films - all we
know about film comes from other films, so why not?
I think Tarantino
was criticized most heavily for ripping
off Ringo Lam's
City on Fire for
the film Resevoir Dogs.
Anyhow Nick, I
liked your mini-essay on on exploitation.
I don't really
agree per se, (except
with the Ginsberg comments). But with
this in mind
my comments are,
so what?
What you are
saying is true. But so what. Everyone needs to make money.
kerouac's books
were published by exploitation publishers.
Just like
Burrough's Junky.
Now I could agree
with you when it comes to hypocrisy. I
don't know if
that comes into
play here, but it is unrelated to the question of idealism
except that the
staunchest idealists put themselves in the best positions
to become first
rate hypocrits.
And since the
topic here is MTV bus rides or something (I don't get cable)
wasn't there a
show in the fifties or early sixties about two guys driving
around in a car
(Route 66 maybe?). Kerouac actually sued
back then for
them stealing his
On the Road premise.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 22:23:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
My gosh this is a
cynical bunch. Their TV program looks
more interesting
than most of the
mindslop on TV. Why pre-judge them? Why pre-judge anybody?
In fact, except for violence, why judge
anybody at all.
I think the
overriding message of Kerouac's writings is a sort of childlike
optimism and
wonder with the world. I'd love to see
more of that on this
list.
my 2 cents.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 06:52:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jacob Miller <CrowCntr@AOL.COM>
Subject: Quality Poetry
Hello All!!!
I'm looking for
poetry submissions, book reviews (of new and old poetry...
or anything...) and music reviews for a new
poetry newsletter/ magazine.
I've read many other magazines, and decided it
was time to publish a
*quality* poetry
zine. I am just starting here, so please
bear with me...
Guidelines:
Just about
anything goes...
POETRY: (I need
LOTS of this....)
Any subject (within reason and good taste)
Length: No more than , oh about 75-100
lines? (negotiable)
Previously unpublished (I don't want to
get into any copywrite wars...)
BOOK REVIEWS:
I need reviews on new poet's books,
established poet's books, or any
good books you've
read and think others would like to read
( probably two or
three reviews per
issue, depends on length)
Length: please no more than 300-500 words
(also negotiable)
MUSIC:
I need reviews and/or opinions on newly
released and classic albumns.
Reviews should be analyzing the poetic
aspects of the music and lyrics.
Length:
300-500 words (also negotiable)
SHORT STORY: (sometimes...)
If I have room, I will occasionally
publish a short story...
This can be on any subject, fiction, or
non, and no longer that 1500
words.
ADVERTISING:
If
you have a chapbook, or contest, or whatever, you can put an ad (2
1/2" x 3
1/2") in this zine for $25 for one issue.
PAYMENT:
Payment for a published writer in this
magazine, will be two free
copies of the
issue in which s/he's featured. Extra
copies may be purchased
for two $.32
stamps each.
PRICE!!!!!!!:
This is a free
publication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am planning a sample to be published
in November of this year as the
Premier
issue! If you would like to recieve a
copy please send two $.32
stamps to:
MR JONES:
c/o Jacob Miller
8L Lakeside Drive
Ledyard, CT 06339
Thank you all for taking the time to read
this...
-> Please E-Mail *All* submissions to me at
CrowCntr@aol.com
-> Please Label your submission - MJ SUB:
"Title or subject of submission
here..." - in the subject line of
the mail.
-> Remeber to include your real name, and real
address with your
submission.
Jacob Miller -
CrowCntr@aol.com
P.S. - I will try
to include a brief crtique with all submissions, whether
accepted or
not. :)
---------------------------
"Figure
it! The pining peever! To a Mookse."
-James Joyce - "Finnegan's
Wake"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 10:32:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: coned pome
Frank
StevensonWrote:
>a coned pome
Great poem,
Frank. Excellent courage to post
it; I never would, way too
chicken.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 10:36:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
Howard Park
<Hpark4@AOL.COM> Wrote:
|
|
| My gosh this is
a cynical bunch. Their TV program looks
more interesting
| than most of
the mindslop on TV. Why pre-judge
them? Why pre-judge
anybody?
| In fact, except for violence, why judge
anybody at all.
Thanks for this,
Howard. On the strength of all the other
mails, I was going
to go home and
burn all the photos my husband and I took when we drove around
Australia. We knew we weren't the first adventurers but
we had a fabulous
time nonetheless,
met some interesting and unusual people and it felt fresh
and new to us;
not at all like it had all been done before.
my 5 cents worth
(2 cent coins aren't in circulation here no more)
-Josephine
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:18:46 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: chinese phil conference
Comments: cc:
cybermind@jefferson.village.virginia.edu
"1 more time," the man muttered to
himself, trying to send out the
note in the tiny
bottle onto the chaotic tossing grey sea: it's my last
chance as fly to
boston tomorrow (gain a day midflight, pretty weird), am
to present a
paper on "i ching" and derridean "writing" (with perhaps
some
mention also of deleuze's (& jd's) "fold"/spinozist
expression/implic/explication/[un]"folding" of world)
at an int'l
conference of chinese philsophy at B.U. in Boston Aug. 4-8
(though don't
know which day yet): anyway, if anyone happens to be in
boston then,
welcome to come to this conference--sponsored by Robert
Neville, Dean of
School of Theology--on any of these days and see what's
happening......
although I'm notoriously metaphysical and
virtually "APOLITICAL"
(or maintain the illusion of being so) if this
(illusion) is still
possible in our
hyper-political age, many of these scholars of chinese
phil are very
political indeed, and quite a few will be from PRC i think
(i may need to
help "guide" some of them around town, should be fun) and
these cats tend
to be VERRRRY political and see phil as a totally and
manifestly
political instrument, as 'twere (which strangely i never could)
....will be much awareness
of Harry Wu, PRC/ROC (Taiwan)/USA relations,
etc etc....(sans
doute)....Hope to maybe meet a few of you invisible
creatures
there....
Frank W. Stevenson
National Taiwan Normal
University, Taipei
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:41:18 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: coned pome
In-Reply-To:
<199507310029.KAA17836@netmanager.dotc.gov.au>
tanks mon! (thank you, ms. thomson.) i wrote
that about 2 yrs ago i
think...wldn't
have thought it needed "courage" to post such a poem (just
vanity perhaps, i
dunno)--i mean, not too shocking or "obscene" or
anthing like
that....just kind of free-form expression, maybe sligthly
schizophrenic
around the gills.....("why, i've posted such shocking
things you
wouldn't believe! why, i'll post ANYTHING man!
i'll...i'll....i'lllll") fws, taipei (but in boston tomorrow!)
On Mon, 31 Jul
1995, Josephine Thomson wrote:
> Frank
StevensonWrote:
>
> >a coned
pome
>
> Great poem,
Frank. Excellent courage to post
it; I never would, way too
> chicken.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:50:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.90.950729190309.2018G-100000@sun4> from "Frank
Stevenson" at Jul 29, 95
07:03:45 pm
> Thank you, Ms. L.B. Bissell, for your
wondrous reply-post, full of
> brilliance
and wit and at a level of sophistication (Oxford....hmmm, that
> might
explain it....notice typical Yank inferiority complex at work here,
> which may
help to explain following "ant" metaphor with Lilliputian amp-
> litudes)
sufficient to keep me luxuriously "feeding" upon it
> for days and
weeks, at my leisure in the late afternoon sun....(more or
> less like a
swarm of hungry ants feeding upon the sweetest honied
> carcass....)
> I realize I'm probably too quick to reject
the (seemingly, but perhaps
> I've
over-simplified them, perhaps that's the point) more blatantly political
> and
"politically correct" forms of criticism so fashionable now, e.g.
> cultural
studies, post-colonialism, etc: BUT I would still maintain (as
> I did at a
recent American Lit conference here where evveryone was saying
> we must
emphasize plurality and DIFFERENCES among ethnic groups, no
> old-fashioned
notion of lit as expressing UNIVERSAL human qualities was
> to be
allowed--because it's always the ones in "power" that define the
> univversal,
is that it? this seems nonsense to me--that when Hamlet says
> "Alas
poor Yorick,/I knew him well, Horatio/He was a fellow of infinite
>
jest"....or when Chguang-tzu says "This is also that," there is
something
> deeper and
more "univversal" at work or play than the levvel of
>
socio-ethnic-political "differences" or group-identities....)
>
> fws
i am ignorant of
the response you are referring to, but as for your view
about the
"politically correct'ness" being thrown about here, i must
agree. it's a
reality that takes away from unification.
the americans
who emphasize the
importance of pc'ness are relentless in the pursuit of
breaking groups
into smaller subunits until a connection ceases to exist.
i recently heard
a speaker in biology give a talk about vitamin d
production in
relation to melanin production and uv exposure.
her
science spoke of
the only reason physical differences exist...it was the
best talk i've
heard in a long time. i got to thinking that it's the
physical
differences that contribute to the fear of the societal
differences...it
seems to be a neverending ride that leads to
intolerance. her
talk wasn't so focused that it narrowed the mind of the
listener as many
science people do. she brought us all together.
i have enjoyed
your submissions. i, too, have experienced the meditative
effect of
nature. (i find that focusing on my
breath leads me to the voices
that flow in my
mind..not peaceful at all) and i look forward to your
talk about the i
ching. i've spoken with pagans and got
interested in the
connection with
runes and the i ching. seems like if we
go back further
and further...we
all follow a similar path. slight
modifications turn
into drastic
differences only when we perceive them as such.
i'm not a
literary scholar. in fact, you
intimidate me, fws. but the
tao brings me
balance and as long as i see this, there is peace.
k
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:21:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.90.950729185553.2018C-100000@sun4> from "Frank
Stevenson" at Jul 29, 95 06:56:04
pm
fws
reading your
journal entries reminded me of a discussion i had with a
friend the other
day. he's completely devoted to proust and when i asked
him if that's why
he connected with neal cassidy, he told me that he
never read _on the road_, but that he knew cassidy was
(among other things)
a habitual
masturbator. i got to thinking about
why... he was seeking
the pleasure and
the experience, but he probably didn't know of another
way to experience
intense physical pleasure other than climax.
so he did
it again and
again, leaving him empty until the next time.
you mention the
"dirtiness"
of anal sex...yet tantric sex concentrates in this area for a
man... (i wonder if cassidy had experienced this, or
if his pleasure was
always stop and
go..never reaching a higher level of sensation)
i guess this is
all related to feelings i have about false starts in my
life...traveling
along a path, not feeling doubt or regret, not feeling
much of anything.
never questioning, just following, then the spark...my
mind opens and i
see things are not as they seemed. i am frightened and
doubtful...all my
life i've thought that if i made decisions that were true to
myself, i
wouldn't regret them, i mean, regret is useless, it can't change
things. but here i am...no longer in pursuit of a
goal i thought i believed in.
how could i have
let myself go so far without questioning? like many in
science, i put on
blinders...i won't get into it...it's boring.
i said that you
intimidate me...intimidation is the wrong word...(i do not
choose words
well)...it's your life and your choices that overwhelm me...at
least from what
you have written to this group. the
feeling that i am
starting over in
my pursuits scares me...realizing there is so little i know
compared to what
is out there... and yet i've never been more alive. maybe
i've just
transferred to a different route.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 03:04:31 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199507311721.NAA08601@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
Thanks for your
note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
(based that is on
true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
east) from 1974,
but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
and stuck in a
pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
this stuff more
and more and live in the memories, and always have less
qualms about
"publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
newfound desire
to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
or embarrassed to
do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
thing about those
years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
clear from the
journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
that was my whole
life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
one doesn't
"need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
etc)...(i never
thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
oral sex etc in
those days & only added that entry because i know how
people NOW are so
obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
"political"
now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of
(well, ok) sex,
DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
think living in
asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
i'll be in boston
at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
come down to
haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so....
frank stevenson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:12:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.90.950801025635.28856E-100000@sun4> from "Frank
Stevenson" at Aug 1, 95
03:04:31 am
>
> Thanks for
your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
> (based that
is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
> east) from
1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
> and stuck in
a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
> this stuff
more and more and live in the memories, and always have less
> qualms about
"publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
> newfound
desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
i read something
and feel as if that person is here with me right
now...i'm sure
many others do. i know what you mean about the
therapy..it's a
catharsis for me...only difference is that i do care too
much what other
people think. have to get over this.
> or
embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
> i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
> thing about
those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
> clear from
the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
> that was my
whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
> one doesn't
"need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
> etc)...(i
never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
> oral sex etc
in those days & only added that entry because i know how
> people NOW
are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
>
"political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's)
of
i think the key
word is obsession..about sexuality, about drugs, about
government/politics
and i think it comes from understanding only certain
aspects and not
the overall picture. this is only my
guess, but peyote
and coca leaves
can bring about heightened awareness yet when their
abused (or
altered chemically to be more concentrated) you lose that...it
goes
downhill. a big problem i see is
intolerance due to lack of
understanding
about sexuality...politicians and clergy define sexual
boundaries and
sexuality isn't black and white. one
thing i've always
believed in is
the constitution...freedom...but too many want
control...
too many sides
pulling..something's gonna give.
> (well, ok)
sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
> think living
in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
> i'll be in
boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
> come down to
haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so....
frank stevenson
don't know of a time
that i would like to be frozen in...i think i've
been stuck for
too long in the nothingness i felt in the 80's.
kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:33:57 -1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
>>
>> Thanks
for your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
>> (based
that is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
>> east)
from 1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
>> and
stuck in a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
>> this
stuff more and more and live in the memories, and always have less
>> qualms
about "publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
>> newfound
desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
>
>i read
something and feel as if that person is here with me right
>now...i'm
sure many others do. i know what you mean about the
>therapy..it's
a catharsis for me...only difference is that i do care too
>much what
other people think. have to get over
this.
>
>> or
embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
>> i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
>> thing
about those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
>> clear
from the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
>> that was
my whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
>> one
doesn't "need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
>>
etc)...(i never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
>> oral sex
etc in those days & only added that entry because i know how
>> people
NOW are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
>>
"political" now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's)
of
>
>i think the
key word is obsession..about sexuality, about drugs, about
>government/politics
and i think it comes from understanding only certain
>aspects and
not the overall picture. this is only my
guess, but peyote
>and coca
leaves can bring about heightened awareness yet when their
>abused (or
altered chemically to be more concentrated) you lose that...it
>goes
downhill. a big problem i see is
intolerance due to lack of
>understanding
about sexuality...politicians and clergy define sexual
>boundaries
and sexuality isn't black and white. one
thing i've always
>believed in
is the constitution...freedom...but too many want
>control...
>too many
sides pulling..something's gonna give.
>
>> (well,
ok) sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
>> think
living in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
>> i'll be
in boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
>> come
down to haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so.... frank stevenson
>
>don't know of
a time that i would like to be frozen in...i think i've
>been stuck
for too long in the nothingness i felt in the 80's.
>kristen
>
>please stop
jamming my mailbox with this personal shit, keep on the beat
topic or use
e-mail.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:31:45 -1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
>Thanks for
your note....I dunno, those are just actual journal entries
>(based that
is on true events, I was teaching in Teheran and then heading
>east) from
1974, but somewhat edited/reised....(Maybe 'cause I'm 50 now
>and stuck in
a pretty routine family and teaching life I tend to remember
>this stuff
more and more and live in the memories, and always have less
>qualms about
"publishing" it than I once would have--I don;t know why my
>newfound
desire to "publish" this stuff, which once I'd have been too shy
>or
embarrassed to do....some kind of strange theraphy maybe, or more like
>i just
"don't give a hit what others will think" any more....but the main
>thing about
those years in the Middle East & India was (as should be
>clear from
the journals) I was much too "into" getting stoned (hashish),
>that was my
whole life, I didn't think about sex (of course, when stoned
>one doesn't
"need" it) much at all, or anything else (money, politics,
>etc)...(i
never thought about hetero vs homosexual or anal vs genital vvs
>oral sex etc
in those days & only added that entry because i know how
>people NOW
are so obsessed (?) with these things...people are so
>"political"
now, no? what happened to the good old days (60's/70's) of
>(well, ok)
sex, DRUGS and rock 'n' roll? (i often wonder about this: i
>think living
in asia since 1973 has effectively frozen me in time...)
>i'll be in
boston at b.u. at a chinese phil conference aug 4-8; i may
>come down to
haunt the east village aug 15-20 or so....
frank stevenson
>
>this has
nothing to do with the topic..............find another forum or,
better
yet, confine your
correspondence to e-mail.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:29:54 -1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ray Freed <indigo@ILHAWAII.NET>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
>fws
>
>reading your
journal entries reminded me of a discussion i had with a
>friend the
other day. he's completely devoted to proust and when i asked
>him if that's
why he connected with neal cassidy, he told me that he
>never
read _on the road_, but that he knew
cassidy was (among other things)
>a habitual
masturbator. i got to thinking about
why... he was seeking
>the pleasure
and the experience, but he probably didn't know of another
>way to experience
intense physical pleasure other than climax.
so he did
>it again and
again, leaving him empty until the next time.
you mention the
>"dirtiness"
of anal sex...yet tantric sex concentrates in this area for a
>man... (i wonder if cassidy had experienced this, or
if his pleasure was
>always stop
and go..never reaching a higher level of sensation)
>
>i guess this
is all related to feelings i have about false starts in my
>life...traveling
along a path, not feeling doubt or regret, not feeling
>much of
anything. never questioning, just following, then the spark...my
>mind opens
and i see things are not as they seemed. i am frightened and
>doubtful...all
my life i've thought that if i made decisions that were true to
>myself, i
wouldn't regret them, i mean, regret is useless, it can't change
>things. but here i am...no longer in pursuit of a
goal i thought i
believed in.
>how could i
have let myself go so far without questioning? like many in
>science, i
put on blinders...i won't get into it...it's boring.
>
>i said that
you intimidate me...intimidation is the wrong word...(i do not
>choose words
well)...it's your life and your choices that overwhelm me...at
>least from
what you have written to this group. the
feeling that i am
>starting over
in my pursuits scares me...realizing there is so little i know
>compared to
what is out there... and yet i've never been more alive. maybe
>i've just
transferred to a different route.
>
>what the hell
does this have to do with beat discussion?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:46:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: VJ
<the.Literary.Denim@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Frank Stevenson
Get off the
channel, Frank. Yr off topic, yr topic
is noise, yr writing is
mediocre, and yr
a nuisance.
Everyone else . .
. sorry for the flame, but this guy's ego has poured into
this channel for
more than I can be quiet about, and this is the only way I
can get at him.
Frank: go away!
\\|//
(o o)
--------------oOO--( )--OOo----------------------
vj@primenet.com |
City Pigeons
Tempe, AZ |
Ate Popcorn on Mkt St.
| But Now They're Dead
--------------ooooO---Ooooo----------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:54:04 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Frank Stevenson
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:46:21
-0700
At least Frank is
posting something. Taking it to e-mail
becomes a valid
thing to do at a
certain point, I agree, but I don not think frank has to go
away.
I would rather
get Frank's stuff than these whiner mssges from Hawaii and
Tempe.
Tim
(To hear Jack
speak:
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/!gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
)
ugh that should be ~gallaher (not !gallaher)
aye yo
ok
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:02:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Frank & Kirsten are okay by me
To VJ & Ray
& anyone else:
I quite enjoyed
Kirsten & Frank's contributions. And
what they are saying is
relevant to this
newsgroup: the search for how to live. I
think it is
impossible to
discuss the beats. or any other literature which really moves
you, without
coming back to the personal. Besides,
we're all meant to be
friends of a sort
and what's wrong with tolerating someone branching off, just
a little, from
the topic?
Josephine
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:06:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: going down to get a dictionary
Sorry: Kristen,
not Kirsten.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:25:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lisa Bonelli <BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Frank & Kirsten are okay by me
Who is Frank?
It is not so much
the subject, but when I logged on today, I
thought some how
the freeway signs on the information highway ahd
become reversed
and I got on the wrong path. I don't quite understand
how those
messages tie in to a discussion of Beat writers. Yes,
sometimes its
quite on this newsgroup, but personally I'm not in favor
of random
postings that are not related to the Beats. I'm probably not
alone in having @
50 msgs. a day to get through, and prefer to at least
know what the
heck is going on when I pull up a message. This is definately
NOT a FLAME of
Frank, Kirsten or anyone else. Just MHO.
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 23:02:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John A. Urciuoli" <JUrciuoli@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
I read your
comment and fully agreed. You may want
to read a fine book
titled Minor
Characters. This book delves into the
exact territory you are
discussing. It is written by Joyce Johnson. She was Kerouacs girlfriend
during the two
years surrounding the publication of On The Road. Very
enlightening. Check it out.
John-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 23:48:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Simakowicz
<Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: going down 2 (fwd)
Interesting
comments and observations...really.
But are you guys
in the right room? Anyway, just got into Chinaski's
HOLLYWOOD...If
you're a Bukowski fan, you'll enjoy it.
It's about the making
of the BARFLY
film.
Maintain,
Gene
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:56:14 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Thorn
<mthorn@FASTNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Kerouac Letters
The tide must
certainly be turning when the TLS gives a selection
of Kerouac
letters to a sympathetic reviewer -:
James Campbell in
the current issue, p22, reviews the Kerouac letters
and the Ginsberg
Journals jointly, giving, quite properly, Kerouac
prominence.
"Commonly
seen as pariahs of the American literary tradition,
the Beats are in
fact deeply embedded in it, embracing everything
from
Transcendentalism to Civil Disobedience to Wild West adeventure,
attractively
tinged with criminality."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:16:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Heeg
<Michael_Heeg_at_EDUPO@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
The Stones,
Eagles, The Grateful Dead (OOPs) are out there rocking, give me a
break these bands
had their days and they were back in the sixties not the 90's.
There are a lot
of good rock n' roll bands out there now.
Classic rock is fine
but there is so
much out there, take a chance and go out and buy something new,
Bob.
michael______________________________
Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re:
Re[2]: Totally Hip kathryn..
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 8/31/95 8:21 PM
Gene:
Rock 'n' Roll
DEAD!
No way daddyo.
The Stones are out there rocking along with the Eagles and
other 60's
groups. ''Classic Rock is alive and well in LA.
Tune in MAN- it
could all be hapening all over again!
Bob
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:29:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Roth <BobR6969@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
Cool Dude Mike:
Great music
transcends time Mike. There is a strong philosophical
relationship
between the music of some 60's rockers and the Beats. I offer
you the
following:
Bob Dylan, John
Lennon, Jim Morrison, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, R. Waters and
the list goes on.
You are correct
about the good rock of the 90's. The media often writes about
today's youth as
Generation X. I don't like labels; however, many of my
college students
can identify with the Beats and the 60's because they are
part of the
Generation X phenomena. My children listen to Green Day and
Weezer. I am not
smart enough to know if that is good music, but I like it.
There you have
it- that's your break.
Bob
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:48:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Simakowicz
<Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Teaching the Beats
Bob:
How are you?
Grat to see your
kids digging it all.
Idea:
Do some
comparative work with Whitman and Ginsberg. We had a ball doing it in
a graduate class
I took,
Regards,
Gene
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:46:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Simakowicz
<Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
Seems to me all
this new rock is derivative and damned depressing. Life has
enough angst. I'd
rather listen to jazz now. Stones,Eagles??
Nah.
Maybe reggae,
Gene
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:59:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Roth <BobR6969@AOL.COM>
Subject: Not a sexist bastard
Mike:
I should have
included the following women in my list of 60's related
rockers: Judy
Collins, Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell,Buffy Saint Marie,Carol King
and the list goes
on and on.............
Bob- just an old
fool lost in the 60's
"The only
thing I can offer you is my own confusion".
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:41:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
In-Reply-To:
<950901112937_8631171@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Robert
Roth" at
Sep 1, 95 11:29:37 am
> relationship
between the music of some 60's rockers and the Beats. I offer
> you the
following:
> Bob Dylan,
John Lennon, Jim Morrison, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, R. Waters and
> the list
goes on.
Got all the
others, but would you explain Page & Plant please?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:16:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Elsie Pettit
<pettit@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
In-Reply-To:
<950901114642_8644681@emout04.mail.aol.com>
Well, Gene, then
you should mosey on over to the jazz-l list!
We're a
real friendly
group!
Elsie
**************************************************************
"Outside of
a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a
dog, it's too
dark to read."
----groucho marx
**************************************************************
On Fri, 1 Sep
1995, Gene Simakowicz wrote:
> Seems to me
all this new rock is derivative and damned depressing. Life has
> enough
angst. I'd rather listen to jazz now. Stones,Eagles?? Nah.
>
>
> Maybe
reggae,
> Gene
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:36:21 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News
Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
hey, cool, you're
on both, too then!
- broo
aka Greeley not
Creeley
(!)
----------
From: Elsie Pettit <pettit@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
Date: Friday,
September 01, 1995 1:16PM
Well, Gene, then
you should mosey on over to the jazz-l list!
We're a
real friendly
group!
Elsie
**************************************************************
"Outside of
a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a
dog, it's too
dark to read."
----groucho marx
**************************************************************
On Fri, 1 Sep
1995, Gene Simakowicz wrote:
> Seems to me
all this new rock is derivative and damned depressing. Life has
> enough
angst. I'd rather listen to jazz now. Stones,Eagles?? Nah.
>
>
> Maybe reggae,
> Gene
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:27:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: gabby <raindog@IQUEST.NET>
Subject: andrei codrescu
(as she artfully
dodges the music debate. . . )
so, does anyone read andrei codrescu,
poet, essayist, author and NPR
commentator? he's pals with ginsberg - allen gave andrei
his blessing when
andrei embarked
on a car trip through america - and as andrei left, he
quoted jack
kerouac: ' the earth is an indian thing' - i'm reading his new
novel, _the blood
countess_ which is perfectly eerie. . . .
--gab
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 22:52:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Masculinity, violence, and
night-time-jitters
>I've got the
night-before-classes-begins-jitters, and I tried to watch a
>repeat of the
local news with the hope that it would put me to sleep.
>Needless to
say, I'm still awake.
>
>Here's my
basic question: In regard to beat literature, is it cliche to draw
>a connection
between violence/misogyny and testosterone? I know this is a
>sexist
question, but it's not meant to be. I'm not necessarily talking about
>Burroughs,
Kerouac, Bukowski, etc., although I did have them in mind. I've
>recently read
an excerpt from an Acker novel, and the violence was
>consistently
male-on-female. I don't think my question is irrelevant, but I
>wonder if I'm
being too "surface." I have a hard time believing that the
>anti-female
notion that is prevalent throughout the beat literature should be
>blamed on the
Y chromosome; however, I am finding that woman often take on
>multiple, and
quite negative, roles.
>
>Any thoughts?
I'm just so sick of hearing about Jerry Garcia.
>
>Laurie Syrek
Here is a story I
have wanted to talk about for a long time.
It took place
about ten years
ago in a town far now away that was called a feminist
paradise by a
national magazine. I was an
undergraduate at thelocal
university. On the weekends I always stayed in town with
some friends of
mine also from my
home town. I'd moved there independently but later met
them in this
feminist paradise of a city. And it was
a beautiful city on
the coast, with
beautiful redwood forests just up the hill a few miles. I
lived in the
mountains with some other friends who were students during the
week. But the weekends I spent in town with my
compariots from the old
town. They were two brothers and a friend of
theirs. They weren't going
to college. The brothers worked construction and the
other guy found a job
at a car
dealership. Our quintet was rounded out
by a young woman from the
old town who was
a freshman at the same university as I.
She lived in the
dorms and also
stayed at the guys' apartment on the weekends.
We mainly
hung out, smoked
dope and played music. I had actually
sold my drum set to
the older brother
to make some money for my move to this feminist paradise
college town
beach community mountain retreat. He's
since bought
electronic drums
I think, so whither my old drum set I cannot say.
They had an
apartment near downtown in a building with 2 or 3 other
apartments. On one side were the fighting
heterosexuals. This apartment
seemed to be like
a crash pad for older hippy like dudes. A guy we met
later's Mother
lived there. She seemed to be an alcoholic maybe. And a
bunch of
thirtyish hippy dude 70's type guys stayed there. Who knows who
they were, but
they'd fight. To get an idea what they
were like I'd
compare them to
David Crosby in the seventies and eighties. Fat old hippy
dudes that'd
drink or do drugs. This town was not
just a feminist paradise
but also a hippy
paradise and new age paradise or whatever else paradise
was
available. There was a nightclub nearby
and these sorts hung out there
all the
time. We called it a negative energy
vortex and were frigtened
every time we
walked by it. Although ostensibly it was
a hippy love place.
Neal Young would
play there to try out his new stuff (the International
Harvesters,
remember them). Woody's boy'd play there.
It should have been
a good vibes
place, one would think, but it seemed ugly and nasty to me.
Weird sexual
revolution vibes and violence vibes. Once when passing by I
saw this big
woman screaming at someone, then come roaring out of the
vestibule full
speed ahead and crash her head into thewindow of a truck
that some guy was
pulling away from the curb in. Obviously
the object of
her wrath was
within. It seemed to me that these David
Crosbys would hang
out at this
negative energy vortex drinking, go home later, and be
frustrated. Sexually frustrated maybe, or just frustrated
in general. But
they'd start to
fight. And we'd hear it and feel
it. We'd hear grumbling
and growling,
muffled through the wall. "Rrruba
muga miga ragga rigga you
so&so." And then they'd fight. We'd here scuffling and slapping, then
hitting the wall,
then pow, two fat David Crosbys falling to the floor
together in an
angry embrace. And we'd feel it because
their wall was our
wall and our
floor was their floor and there were two fat guys banging
around wrestling
on it. They'd fight and yell til they
must have been too
tired to go
on. While they fought we'd huddle
together in fear, softly
saying "Oh
no, oh no". We even met a guy with
an interesting history (who
later hung around
a lot) because of this. He was a younger
guy about our
ages, late teens,
early 20's. His mother was the alcoholic
looking woman
who lived there.
So I guess he was staying there one night when the
fighting
began. He came across the hall and
knocked on our door. "Hey
guys, is it all
right if I hang out here for awhile?" he quietly asked. Of
course we said
sure. We found out later he was wanted
by the FBI for
stealing a boat
out of the yacht harbor with a couple other guys. It was
easy. The ringmaster just went on the boats at
night and scoped out the
one's where the
owners left the keys in. They sailed
down to Mexico in it
with the dream of
making their living by taking tourists on sight-seeing
cruises. But a little thing called El Nino caused them
to crash the boat
and ruin it on
the baja coast. So he made it back to
the border and swam
the river. Later when the FBI caught up with him he
didn't seem to get
into too much
trouble. Probation I guess. He cooperated. The feds were
after the
ringleader not his young accomplices. So
he learned his lesson.
We do dumb things
when we are young. (And I'm sure we will
do dumb things
when we are old,
maybe not so many).
In the apartment
on one side were the fighting David Crosbys.
But on the
otherside were a
couple we dubbed the Battling Dykes. We
could also hear
them and feel
them as onewould beat the other. We'd
hear the one start
accusing the
other in a voice so hate-filled I have seldom heard it
matched. "You bitch, you whore, you cunt,"
she would seethe (please
forgive me for
relating this awfull language). "I
saw the way you were
looking at
her." And the other one would
blubber, crying "no, no, no".
Then smack
slap. More crying and pleading. Then we'd hear and feel one
desperately
crawling across the hardwood floor to get away.
We'd feel this
because their
floor was our floor and, sitting there in our
doped-up-on-humboldt-sinse
heightend sensitivity, it'd reverberate through
the floor and
through us. The other would clunk clunk across the floor
after her, grab
her and then both wpould clammer flat onto the floor. The
name calling
would go on and pound pound pound on the floor, pound pound
pound on the
wall. I could see in my head what I was
hearing with my ears
and feeling with
every nerve-ending in my scared sad body:
one sitting on
the other,
grabbing her by the hair and pounding her head against the
floor, pounding
her head against the wall. Beating her
over and over,
screaming in her
jealous rage. One evening we were
walking home. As we
passed by their
window we saw, above the lower three quarters of the window
that was covered
with a blanket, a crutch, straight up in the air. It was
waved about and
then, thwack, swiftly and violently it was brought down
below our
view. Then it was up above the blanket,
then down. Up and down
up and down. She was beating her with a crutch.
To this day it is
to my shame that I didn't call the police and tell them
that there was a
woman beating another woman near to death.
The thought
never even crossed
my stoned out mind. Smoking dope or
doing any drugs
never does
anybody any good.
How could things
like this happen? They happen all over,
all the time.
Today as we read
this there's gotta be couples fighting.
A man beating a
man, a woman
beating a man, a man beating a woman, a woman beating a woman.
Right now I'll
bet.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:15:16 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: andrei codrescu
Yeah, I saw ROAD
SCHOLAR. I liked it but thought it would
have been better if
he had, for
instance, stopped to see Burroughs in Kansas and Ferlinghetti in
San
Francisco. Also the version I saw was
taped off of PBS. Can you tell me
-- Is the version
in video stores longer, or different? About Codrescu as
poet and writer
I'm not overly enthusiastic. Which work do you think is his
best?
Dan B.
dan_barth@redwoodfn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:44:21 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Masculinity, violence, and
night-time-jitters
Pretty good. I
think I know that town. I liked the bar, had good vibes and
good times there.
I smoked sense and danced. Don't think it has done me any
permanent harm. I
know a magazine here in Northern California that would
publish your
story. Don't get excited -- No pay. But it would fit right in.
About this
thread, I was thinking last night, and your story bears it out,
that it's a
mistake to say, "Men are violent, women are peaceful." We are all
equal human
beings and shouldn't be judged on the basis of sex any more than
on race, height,
weight, hair color or any other secondary quality. Peaceful
man is not an
oxymoron, though military intelligence and flavored vodka, in
my opinion, are.
Dan B.
dan_barth@redwoodfn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:55:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Teaching the Beats
at naropa,
ginsberg told a student to write about his girlfriend instead of
politics.........
....rene
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:03:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Also introducing...
i scored a
'poetry readings in the cellar' record with ferlinghetti and
rexroth for
75c....those must've been pretty sweaty readings...
....rene
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 23:13:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: CD-Romnibus
Just
wondering. Has anyone actually seen the
Jack kerouac CD romnibus.
If so how much
are they asking and any other coments.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 12:17:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: CD-Romnibus
In-Reply-To: <199509040613.XAA03452@hsc.usc.edu>
I ordered the CD
at the conference in NY this past June (ordered and paid
for), but have
neither heard nor seen it. I get no help
from Penguin,
despite phone
calls, e-mail, etc. Bummer. I want to use it for my class
on the
Beats. It was around $40 at the
conference rate and looked quite
good. Now if the thing would just arrive.
Dan Terkla
Dept. of English
Illinois Wesleyan
Univ.
On Sun, 3 Sep
1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> Just
wondering. Has anyone actually seen the
Jack kerouac CD romnibus.
>
> If so how
much are they asking and any other coments.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 12:24:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ralph Virgo
<rvirgo@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: CD-Romnibus
You wrote:
>
>I ordered the
CD at the conference in NY this past June (ordered and
paid
>for), but
have neither heard nor seen it. I get no
help from Penguin,
>despite phone
calls, e-mail, etc. Bummer. I want to use it for my
class
>on the
Beats. It was around $40 at the
conference rate and looked
quite
>good. Now if the thing would just arrive.
>
>Dan Terkla
>Dept. of
English
>Illinois
Wesleyan Univ.
>
>
Same thing
happened to me, except I haven't called them yet. Was
planning to call
this week. If I find out anything, I'll
let you know.
By the way, if
you are interested in checking it out, I maintain a Web
page called
Inside the Kerouac Legacy. It's at
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Topics/IKL.html
and/or accessible
from Levi Asher's Beat News
Ralph
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 15:39:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Doctor Slothrop
<DrSLOTHROP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CD-Romnibus
The disc is
scheduled to ship mid- to late- September.
It should be worth
the wait.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 18:19:00 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mike Kolibaba
<radauti@AGORA.RDROP.COM>
Subject: Re: andrei codrescu
>(as she
artfully dodges the music debate. . . )
>
> so, does anyone read andrei codrescu,
poet, essayist, author and NPR
>commentator? he's pals with ginsberg - allen gave andrei
his blessing when
>andrei
embarked on a car trip through america - and as andrei left, he
>quoted jack
kerouac: ' the earth is an indian thing' - i'm reading his new
>novel, _the
blood countess_ which is perfectly eerie. . . .
>
>
> --gab
I am a big
Codrescu fan, partly because I am Romanian-American, but also
because I like
his commentaries and writings. I saw him
read here recently
(Portland, OR)
from "The Blood Countess." He
was extremely witty. During
the question and
answer session, I asked him "have you driven a car again
since making
'Road Scholar?' "
"Oh,
no," he replied, "I only drive for art." It brought the house down.
He also
autographed two books for me and was quite gracious.
I have read
several of his books and especially like "The Hole in the Flag."
I also enjoyed
"The Disappearance of the Outside," though I found it a bit
difficult to get
through. I just picked up
"Zombification," a collection of
his NPR commentaries, which I've not yet had time to finish. I like what
I've read so far,
though.
I saw "Road
Scholar" in a theater and loved it.
I was disappointed,
however, that PBS
cut it somewhat when they aired it recently.
Any other
comments from
people in this group?
Mike Kolibaba
"What the
hell, I don't know, but to me a home in the suburbs is a sort of
isolated hell
where nothing happens."
-- Jack Kerouac,
letter to his sister Caroline, March 14, 1945.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 04:35:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ronald Fritts
<rfritts@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Andrei
Also love
Andrei. I thhink he is, in many ways,
closer to the spirit
of the Beats than
anyone going...In the commentaries, the theater
version of
"Road Scholar". Now,
"Blood Countess" isn't necessarily
Beat, but it is
delicious fun.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 10:45:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: CD-Romnibus
In-Reply-To:
<199509041924.MAA03815@ix8.ix.netcom.com>
Thanks for the
web-page info, Ralph. I'll check it out
and will let you
know if I hear
anything from Penguin re: the Kerouac CD.
Cheers,
Dan Terkla
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 11:13:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac CD-ROM (fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep
1995 12:12:17 -0400
From:
MindMotion@aol.com
To:
terkla@titan.iwu.edu
Subject: Kerouac
CD-ROM
Dear Dan Terkla,
I was forwarded a
message you posted on the Beat-L list this past weekend
regarding the
Kerouac CD-ROM you ordered at the NYU Beat Conference.
As one of the
executive producers of the disc, I'm pleased to report the
title will be
shipping from Penguin in the next few weeks.
Sorry for the
delay, but the
project's been monumental in scope, involving dozens of
researchers,
writers, designers, archivists, etc., all of whom worked
tirelessly for
almost two years to put the thing together.
We hope you'll be
pleased with the results.
All best,
Grant Kornberg
(please feel free
to share this info with your list)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:43:12 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Totally Hip kathryn..
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:04:42 -0400
from <BobR6969@AOL.COM>
On Wed, 30 Aug
1995 20:04:42 -0400 Robert Roth said:
>Totally Hip
Kathryn:
>I am
currently using a three cassett set titled "the Beat Generation". I
>don't know if
one can find it in CD. The cassetts contain readings,
>interviews,
jazz and generally cool stuff about the beat generation.
>I found my
set at Crown Books in Los Angeles; however, you can write Rhino
>Records Inc.,
2225 Colorado Ave., Santa Monica, CA 90404 for more
>information.
>Bob
Yes, it is
available in cd
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:35:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: gabby <raindog@IQUEST.NET>
Subject: Andrei Codrescu
Hmm... I liked _The Disappearance of the
Outside_ and _The Muse is
Always Half
Dressed In New Orleans_ and I am about 1/4 of the way through
_The Blood
Countess_ which I think is bewitching. . . I first heard his
voice, via NPR -
an essay about New Orleans - so it is his essays that I am
hooked on and
when I read them, I hear his voice. . . he has a recording
called "No
Tacos for Saddam" that is wonderful - most of the pieces are
collected in
several of his books - I was unaware that "Road Scholar" was
available in
video. . . I don't have a VCR, so I have no way of knowing if
it is a longer
version. . . but PBS rarely shorts programs, in my experience.
gabby
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:52:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: beatCDs
Kathryn,
Other than the
3-CD Rhino _The Beat Generation_ set, you might also
look at
Ginsberg's _Holy Soul Jelly Roll_ 4-CD Rhino set, and _Howls,
Raps & Roars_
4-CD Fantasy set (this latter contains Ferlinghetti,
Ginsberg, and
other Beat writers performing their works). For some
unusual (and
cheaper) alternatives, Ferlinghetti recites one of his
poems on the film
_The Last Waltz_ (about the Band's last performance),
and Ginsberg does
a poem of his own on one of the songs on the Clash's
_Combat Rock_ CD.
To get some of the less available recordings, you might
contact Jeffrey
Weinberg at Water Row Books, P.O.Box 438, Sudbury, MA
01776; he's been
very helpful to me.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:02:23 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: CD-Romnibus
The Kerouac CD
ROM will be demonstrated and sold at the Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!
Festival, 4-9 October, Lowell, MA. Let me know if you need info.
The brochures are
going out at the end of the week. Also Patti Smith,
Herbert Huncke
and Willie Alexander.
Mark Hemenway
Chairman, Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:03:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: denverbeat
Andrew,
For the Denver
connection,
1) a recent issue
of the _Missouri Review_ 17.3 (1994): 109-60
contains 15
letters from Kerouac to Ed White, dated 1947-68. The
foreword to this
issue contains editorial comments on Kerouac's
Denver friends.
2) Flanagan,
Mike. "Out West." _Denver Post Empire Magazine_ 8
July 1984: 22.
3) Dumas, Alan.
"The Beat Goes On." _Rocky Mountain New Sunday
Magazine_ 26 July
1992: M10-12.
4) Hernandez,
Romel. "Kerouac Fulfilled His Destiny as the Heart
of Beat"
and
Dumas, Alan.
"Cassady and Denver Helped Spawn the Beats."
both in
_Rocky Mountain
News_, Spotlight section, 26 June 1994: 63A & 64A.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:32:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Teaching the Beats
ive never had a
class persay on the beats, but i think someone should try to
teach burroughs
for a change....ginsberg and kerouac are amazing,but bill's
unique prose is
simply brilliant!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:41:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Accessing chat channels for
interactive Beat discussions
how do you access
a chat channel? im very interested in a" virtual beating".
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:53:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Also introducing...
id like a
copy....can you change it to a midi file?....if not ill send cash
for a copy on
cassette....dont care about how quality it is.....e-mail if
willing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:54:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CD-Romnibus
i dont know what
romnibus is...but i have the boxed set....ill try to convert
it to a midi file
and send it to you if you want....if you know how send me
the
info!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:59:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: denverbeat
whats with
denver, the beats, the dead?...some connection...i know all the
beats write about
denver...some kind of city of sin? whats the deal...sounds
quaintly
post-war-apocolyptic....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 21:00:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CD-Romnibus
YES,YES,YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 13:06:04 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Juan Cires Martinez
<jcm@MAT.UPM.ES>
How do you
pronounce Kerouac?
Juan.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 08:04:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: gabby <raindog@IQUEST.NET>
Subject: Kerouac pronunciation
As literal as I can get it:
CARE - ROO - ACK (as in Bill the Cat,
gagging) The 'ou' bit needs
to be like the
'ou' in 'you'.
Anyway, that's the way I've heard it. . .
===========================================================================
"Look at me - I'm way cool. I'm off
| gabby hon
with my way cool friends to sniff |
indianapolis, in
floor wax." -Brian to Angela, "MSCL" |
raindog@iquest.net
============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 18:26:49 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Juan Cires Martinez
<jcm@MAT.UPM.ES>
Has anyone
mentioned Philip Glass' opera "The Hydrogen Jukebox," whose
libretto is a
collection of poems by Allen Ginsberg, who even recites
some of them?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:25:36 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Kerouac pronunciation
Now how about
Duluoz?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:32:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac pronunciation
Comments: To: Dan
Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
In-Reply-To: <2042167293.244689115@RedwoodFN.org>
Doo-loo-oz or
Doo-loo-ohz, at least these are the ways I've always
pronounced
Duluoz.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:50:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: gabby <raindog@IQUEST.NET>
Subject: pronunciation mania
actually, i just
cheat and say/think: 'duh-looz', in my best brooklynese
===========================================================================
"Look at me - I'm way cool. I'm off
| gabby hon
with my way cool friends to sniff |
indianapolis, in
floor
wax." -Brian to Angela,
"MSCL" | raindog@iquest.net
============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 21:16:24 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Masculinity, violence, and
night-time-jitters
I've been
thinking of posting my review of HOW I BECAME HETTIE JONES, a book I
have not tired of
touting. This review ran here and there a few years back. I
think it is
appropriate for this thread. So if I can fool around successfully
with discs and
select, copy, paste and all that rigamarole . . . here it is.
Best,
Dan B.
dan_barth@redwoodfn.org
HOW I BECAME
HETTIE JONES
by Hettie Jones,
Penguin Books,
New York, 1991.
239 pp., $8.95.
In her introduction to THE PORTABLE
BEAT READER, Ann Charters writes that
"most women
living with or married to the Beats . . . took care of the
children, worked
to support the family, and did little writing, mostly
memoirs years
later." Hettie Jones was one of those women and this is one of
those memoirs,
published "years later," but nonetheless a valuable addition
to Beat
literature.
Here's a great sentence from early in
the book: "At night, in my narrow
maple bed, under
the starched, white, ruffled pink-ribbon-threaded spread my
mother had made,
I'd make up stories with myself as the hero of great
seafaring
adventures." Jones has a simple, direct, elegant style. Right to
the point. No
bullshit, but thought out and true. It reminds me of Malcolm
Cowley, and in
fact this book makes a great sequel to THE DREAM OF THE GOLDEN
MOUNTAINS,
Cowley's memoir of the 1930s. Both are personal memoirs which
function as
social and literary history because written by superior observers
who were part of
that history.
Hettie's memoir is primarily of the New
York art scene from the
mid-1950s through
the early 1960s, the burgeoning Beat scene of which she and
LeRoi Jones were
integral parts. It was jazz music that first brought them
together but, as
Hettie points out, "part and parcel of every discussion [of
jazz] was
sociopolitical theory and the history of racism." The history of
racism is very
much part and parcel of this book. As an interracial couple in
the Eisenhower
50s, Mr. and Mrs. Jones had to deal not only with the censure
of society at
large, but more specifically with her middle class Jewish
parents and his
middle class Negro(still the operative word in those days)
parents. Their
decision to live together, and to live as artists, outside the
middle class made
them part of "the cut-and-run passions, the liaisons,
bohemia's
slippery, discontinuous social fabric. . . ," a world their parents
could not
comprehend.
Hettie writes wonderful scenes -- in
the supermarket, on the sidewalk, on
the bus -- and
makes them stand for much more. She has the ability to paint
them superbly and
finish them off with a flourish so that they become produce
market parables,
sidewalk satoris, allegories for the artistic process. Her
relationship with
Roi also functions as a paradigm. She gets inside what it's
like to be locked
in a relationship, the heavy shit -- extramarital affairs,
violent
arguments, breaking plates, hitting each other -- but lays it out
clean, without
rancor or recriminations. She also paints the beauty of the
New York scene,
the fantastic art, music and poetry; the parties, families
and friends.
One reviewer, I believe it was in the
LOS ANGELES TIMES, wrote that this
book is evidence
of what happens when artists of unequal
talent are paired.
I think that
reviewer missed the point entirely. At one point Hettie was
caring for two
children, cleaning a new apartment, typing and editing LeRoi's
BLUES PEOPLE, and
reading galley proofs of Frantz Fanon's THE WRETCHED OF THE
EARTH for Grove Press. And this is the lesser
artist in the family?
The point this book brings to the fore
is that raising children and cooking
and sewing and
keeping a household together are just as much legitimate art
forms as the
creation of books and poems. I wonder if Jan Kerouac would
trade, say,
SATORI IN PARIS and PIC, for two years, or two weeks, of
attention and
care from old Jack. As much as we admire Kerouac and Cassady we
have to see their
lives, at least in part, as cautionary tales. Behind the
Kerouacs and
LeRoi Joneses of this world are strong women who make the life
of the people. If
there is to be any real chance of "poetry and justice for
all," then
we all need to get in touch with the parts of ourselves that
nurture and care,
so we can give the lie to Hettie's statement -- "Like most
men then and now
Roi did little to help."
This book will lead you to others: to
Joyce Johnson's MINOR CHARACTERS for
starters, a
similarly inspired memoir which is acknowledged for its
influence; to
BLUES PEOPLE and HOME and THE MODERNS by LeRoi Jones; and to
works by other
writers who were part of the parties and the problems of the
Jones household
-- Fielding Dawson, Hubert Selby, Jr., Diane Di Prima and
Frank O'Hara,
among others.
Okay, I'm finished raving about this
book. There's much more to it than I've
been able to say
-- Kerouac, Billie Holiday, FLOATING BEAR,
the Cedar Bar,
all floating in
the river of time. As it flows into the unknown 90s I'm
taking Hettie
Jones with me. I want her on my team.
db
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:01:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "ALAN C. REESE"
<S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac pronunciation
The Beavis &
Butthead version:
CARE-uh-whack whack,uh,uh,uh
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:10:53 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Radley-Fascione MD
<M.D.Radley-fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Totally Hip kathryn..
In-Reply-To:
<199509011641.JAA16037@netcom.netcom.com>
On Fri, 1 Sep
1995, Levi Asher wrote:
> >
relationship between the music of some 60's rockers and the Beats. I offer
> > you the
following:
> > Bob
Dylan, John Lennon, Jim Morrison, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, R. Waters
and
> > the
list goes on.
>
> Got all the
others, but would you explain Page & Plant please?
k
Also add the
creative genius of ROY HARPER Britain's greatest lyricist
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:56:33 GMT-0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Erich Noriega Gutierrez
<perdomo@NEXT-HGO.HGO.ITESM.MX>
Hipsters:
Does anyone knows
something about yage drug that burrows used?
regards from
aztlan
erich.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 03:36:59 +0200
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: yage
In-Reply-To:
<9509082056.AA02511@next-hgo.hgo.itesm.mx> (message from Erich
Noriega Gutierrez on Fri, 8 Sep
1995 14:56:33 GMT-0600)
> From: Erich
Noriega Gutierrez <perdomo@NEXT-HGO.HGO.ITESM.MX>
> Hipsters:
> Does anyone
knows something about yage drug that burrows used?
> regards from
aztlan
My God, you're in
Mexico and you're asking _us_?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 18:52:38 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Lowell Celebrates . . .
Mark Hemenway,
I sent a message
to your dharma Beat e-mail address but it came back
undeliverable.
Please get in touch with me and let me know if you have a
different e-mail
address.
Thanks,
dan_barth@redwoodfn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 14:21:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "F. David Horn"
<hornfd@WESTMINSTER.EDU>
Subject: Read Receipt
Your message of
Fri Sep 08 1995 14:56:33 -0600
was read on Sun
Sep 10 1995 14:21:05 -0400.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:00:28 -0400
Reply-To: tb@gromit.ping.at
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas Brandstetter
<tb@GROMIT.PING.AT>
Subject: Unknown
> Does anyone knows something about yage
drug that
> burrows used?
yage (bannisteria
caapi) is a vine that grows in south america...prepared it's h
allucinogenic and
it's also said that it is telepathic but seems to have
some nasty side
effects...shit i haven't got my copy of naked lunch at home,
there is an
appendix on these things...
anyway, read
"the yage letters", a collection of letters burroughs wrote to gins
berg while
searching yage.
and the
interzone-chapter in naked lunch was writen under the influence of yage.
thomas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 08:06:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dharma beat email change
For those
interested, Dharma beat #5 is in production now and should be in
the mail in a
week or so. This issue will have a newly discovered, never
before published
piece by Jack Kerouac. If you are not subscribed- single
copies are $2.50,
two copy subscription is $5.00.
The
"staff" of Dharma beat have all cancelled their AOL service so we
have
new email
addresses. You can reach me at home
mhemenway@igc.apc.org
or at work
mhemenway@s1.drc.com
If your message
is urgent, I check my work mail more often than my home
stuff.
Thanks.
Mark Hemenway
Co-editor, Dharma
beat
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 09:32:57 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:56:33 GMT-0600
from
<perdomo@NEXT-HGO.HGO.ITESM.MX>
On Fri, 8 Sep
1995 14:56:33 GMT-0600 Erich Noriega Gutierrez said:
>Hipsters:
>
>Does anyone
knows something about yage drug that burrows used?
>
>
>regards from
aztlan
>
>erich.
See "The
Yage Letters" by Burroughs and Ginsberg.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:57:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: YAGE (fwd)
i asked a friend
about yage...
> Found some
info:
>
> YAGE
(Pronounced ya-hee; also called ayahuasca.) Banusteriopsis
> caapi.
Family Malpighiaceae.
>
> Material:
Lower parts of stem from vine found in Amazon and
> Orinoco
basins of South America.
>
> Usage: Stem
is pounded in mortar, usually with other local
> psychoactive
materials (mostly solanaceous plants), boiled in
> just enough
water 2-24 hours, strained, reduced to 1/10 volume, 4
> oz cup is
drunk by natives. Other should start with 1/3 this
> amount.
>
> Active
Constituents: Harmine, harmaline, harmalol and
>
tetrahydroharmine. Approximetely 500 mg total alkaloids per 4 oz.
> cup prepared
as above.
>
> Effects:
Trembling within a few minutes followed by perspiration
> and physical
stimulation for 10-15 minutes, then calm with mental
> clouding,
hallucination, increased color, blue-violet shades,
> size
changes, and improved night vision. Harmala alkaloids are
> short-term
MAO inhibitors.
>
>
Contraindications: See harmine et al.
>
> Supplier: No
local sourse of yage. See harmine et al (EoI: See my
> notes at end
under Suppliers..)
peace
kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:43:26 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Dharma beat Address
Dan Terkla was
kind enough to point out that I failed to give an address
for Dharma beat
orders. Here it is:
The Jack Kerouac
subterranean Information Society
Box 1753
Lowell, MA
01853-1753
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:07:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Penguin Electronic
<ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>
Subject: CD-Romnibus -Reply
Comments: To:
gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU
Comments: cc:
mindmotion@aol.com
A tardy response
to this query, largely echoing Grant Kornberg's of last week.
Penguin will
publish the CD-ROM at the end of this month--it is at the
manufacturer now. The suggested retail price
is $49.95, and it will be
available in book and computer stores. I'll be
sure to post to this list when
it ships.
For a preview,
browse the Penguin Web site at:
http://www.penguin.com/usa/electronic/multimedia.html
Thanks for your
interest.
Best,
Julie Hansen
Penguin Books
>>>>>>>>>>
Just
wondering. Has anyone actually seen the
Jack kerouac CD romnibus.
If so how much
are they asking and any other coments.
<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 21:24:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: BeatDataBase
Here is a more
formal proposal for the data base that I mentioned a week or
so ago. I am open to any insights that people might
have and want to thank
those who have
already given me their ideas.
Beat Data Base
(BDB)
Proposal: A database which tracks the evolution of the
avant-
garde over the
last 50 years or so. The Beats would be
central
to this effort,
but other movements of the period would be
included: San Francisco Renaissance, New York School
and Black
Mountain would be
chief among them -- other figures and
personalities who
may not belong to a school or a movement per se
would also be
included.
Ultimately the
data base could be expanded to encompass the last
150 years or so
which constitute the modern period.
Tracing the
development of
the Beats back through this period and beyond to
Blake etc.
Software: Microsoft Access 2.0
Structure: Data
Tables as follows
1) Writers - basic information
on each individual
2) Movements - attributes of
each movement or
school of thought
3) Works - major works by each
writer
4) Publications - important
periodicals that
published the Beats and
others
5) Events - Special events and
incidents
Relational Tables
1) Writers/Movements - Member_of
2) Writers/Works - Wrote
3) Writers/Publications -
Wrote_for
4) Writers/Events - Present_at
5) Writers/Writers -
Influenced_by (This would
be more appropriate after more
writers were
added from the earlier
periods)
For those who
might not be familiar with relational data bases --
how a relational
data base works is that the data tables contain
the raw
information for each area of interest.
On each data
table there is an
ID number for that entry in the table, in other
words every
writer, movement, work, publication and event would
have its own
unique number. The relational tables
consist only
of these ID
numbers, and by themselves would provide very little
information. For example, if Jack Kerouac is writer 1 and
the
Beats are
movement 1 then the two fields to represent him as a
Beat would be the
row 1,1 in the table Member_of. Another
writer, let's say
Robert Duncan, might have the ID number 5 and
be considered to
be a member of San Francisco Renaissance 2 and
Black Mountain
3. There would be two rows in the
Member_of Table
to represent this
5,2 and 5,3. This is a more
"robust" way of
designing the
data base than having the movement listed in the
same table with
the writer. The relational tables above
are
representative of
what could be a much larger and complex set of
relationships. They could include such relationships as:
Friend_Of,
Enemy_Of, Had_Affair_With, Had_Affair_with_Spouse,
etc.
This is meant to
be a prototype that could be expanded in scope
and in time. Any suggestions as to what the data tables
should
contain would be
greatly appreciated. I am also trying to
map
out how to
capture themes and philosophies. Perhaps
a separate
table with the
most common philosophical stances would be
helpful.
Queries will then
be developed which provide the link between the
data tables and
the relational tables. A query might for
example
ask who was Present_At the Six Gallery reading of
Howl. Let's
say this is event
1. The data base would take all the ID
numbers
of people at the
reading then go back to their data table and
find the name
field and print this out. The programmer
has to
make sure that
the proper information has been provided to allow
the computer to
make these logical linkages.
But after all the
above has been done, there will be plenty of
work assembling
the data into all the data tables and then
properly
accounting for all the relationships that are deemed
relevant. I am going to need the help of the Cyber-Beat
community.
This will be a
long process, but hopefully working together we
can build an
interesting data base that will be valuable to all.
Perry M.
Lindstrom
LindLitGrp@AOL.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 19:35:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Million title catalog
In-Reply-To:
<950911212418_16699420@emout05.mail.aol.com>
I stumbled across
this today....million title catalog....and did searches
on Kerouac,
Corso, Ferlinghetti, etc. and found lots of interesting stuff.
The URL is:
http://www.amazon.com/
I have no
connection with this company. Worth a look.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 12:00:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rick Prelinger
<footage@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Youth Rebellion in the 1950s
Comments: To:
h-amstdy@msu.edu, archives@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu, h-film@msu.edu,
screen-l@ua1vm.ua.edu,
h-urban@uicvm.cc.uic.edu, amia-l@UKCC.UKY.EDU
I am trying to
locate actuality footage on the writer Jack Kerouac and
"beat"
culture -- artists, filmmakers, jazz musicians, poets, performers,
writers and their
underground audience from 1944-1960. In
addition, I'm
interested in
film, photographs and audio recordings of the cities and
meeting spots in
which they lived and flourished (New York, San Francisco,
Denver, Orlando
and Mexico City). Especially interested
in images of New
York bars (e.g.,
White Horse, Cedar Bar and San Remo); Columbia
University and
the New School; and the North Beach scene in San Francisco.
In addition, I am
seeking footage of the same time period relating to
Elvis Presley and
Memphis -- the crossroads of music and musicians that
led to the rise
of rock and roll. Subjects include Beale
Street, record
producer Sam Phillips
(Sun Records); WDIA radio disk jockeys Dewey
Phillips, B.B.
King and Rufus Thomas.
Rick Prelinger is
research consultant on this project; Megan McShea is
handling archival
research.
Any help or leads
would be appreciated; please excuse crossposting.
Ron Mann
Sphinx
Productions, Toronto
mann@voyagerco.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 12:41:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Gatta
<jgatta@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Youth Rebellion in the 1950s
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.950912115231.17279A-100000@panix.com> from
"Rick
Prelinger" at Sep 12, 95
12:00:24 pm
you might want to try to find a copy--
although i hear it's
pretty
impossible-- of a film which kerouac, ginsberg, and burroughs did
together called
"Pull My Daisy." a very
worthwhile film written and
acted by the
three, and narrated by kerouac.
jim.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:27:43 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Bowden
<tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: Re: Youth Rebellion in the 1950s
In-Reply-To: <199509121641.MAA11458@mail1.sas.upenn.edu>
James Gatta
<jgatta@SAS.UPENN.EDU> writes:
> you might want to try to find a copy--
although i hear it's
> pretty
impossible-- of a film which kerouac, ginsberg, and burroughs did
> together
called "Pull My Daisy." a very
worthwhile film written and
> acted by the
three, and narrated by kerouac.
It's been a few
years since I saw this one. It's based
upon a true
event, yet for
some reason one of the stars and the location is
unidentified. It was Neal Cassady, of course, and the story
evolved
from a visit of a
local minister and his wife to the Monte Sereno house
where the
Cassadys lived while Ginsberg and Corso were there. I can
remember the
preacher man on film sitting stiffly in the parlor with his
prim wife beside
until a smiling Ginsberg wedged in between.
Corso
following the
holy man around with theological questions, `Is dinner
holy? Is baseball holy? Is rain holy?
Is love holy? Is three AM
holy?'
There's a
confrontation between Neal and his wife, and she slaps him.
This is one of
the events in the canon I'd sure like to know the history
of. Kerouac was not the most accurate chronicler
of internal happenings
of the Cassady
family. The boys escape at the end from
the wrathful
Mother Goddess,
which is a common Beat theme.
Trying to think
of the name for the Neal character.
There was even
a bit of Neal
playing tenor, which he planned to take up in those
years. It looks like just antic silliness on film,
but it's
practically a
documentary, according to my memory of how Carolyn
Cassady related
the time...
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:13:53 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: re Pull My Daisy
Concerning Pull
My Daisy. It did not involve
Burroughs. It was based
on a Kerouac play
called the Beat Generation.
Coincidentally I was
recently looking
at LitKicks in the Beat movie page and Levi wrote that
he hadn't seen
Pull My Daisy and if anyone had to write him.
So Last week
I sent him this
message about the film. I think it is complemented well
by Tim Bowden's
previous post.
I saw Pull My
Daisy years ago at the Pacific Film Archive in Berkeley.
It was quite
good. It started with a jazz song of
Pull My Daisy the poem
with a hepchick
beatnniky voiced (beatnik as opposed to beat) woman singing.
It remindes me of
the Dobie Gillis Beatniky music. The
film had Corso playing
Kerouac, Ginsberg
as himself and an actor (Larry Rivers?) playing Cassidy and
an actress
playing Carolyn Cassidy and one more charecter who played a minister.
Maybe there was
another character but I don't remember.
The plot
concerned the minister coming to dinner at the Cassidys' with Ginsberg
and Corso there
also. They sidled up to him real close
on the couch and kept
asking religious
type questions like "is baseball holy?" But the thing that
made this movie
unique and enjoyable is that the actors themselves weren't
talking, it was
all kerouac. He narrated the film as we
watched the
characters. He'd say
something like "And there's Irwin garden..." So the only
voice we ever
heard was Kerouac's. When the characters
spoke it was kerouac
saying it as part
of the narration. When the Cassidy
character got frustrated
and hit a hanging
light, he mouthed "Aw" as kerouac said it and so forth. It
really was quite
fun and was truly a Jack kerouac movie in that his narration
and playing all
the roles as narrator made the movie what it was. Of course
using Ginsberg
and Corso gave it the real deal feel also rather than having
some actors play
the role. I think seeing them in this
movie gives illustration
of how they
(Corso, Ginsberg and Orlovsky) are portrayed in Desolation Angels.
It was funny
too. At one point the Cassidy
character pulled
out a saxophone and started playing jazz.
I think that in the
early fifties
when Kerouac and Cassidy were both trying to develop their
writing, Cassidy
writinng First Third, Kerouac writing Visions of Cody and
others, Cassady
tried to learn sax also because he felt that writing wasn't
going to do it
for him in expressing his insides the way writing worked for
Kerouac. So he tried to take up sax as an alternative
oulet for his artistic
expression. That's where the saxophone scene must have
come from.
But overall quite
a good movie. It was short, only 20
minutes or so I think.
I don't know
where it would be shown now or where it would be available for
renting. I was lucky in that the PFA was doing a
series on experimental films
and included it
in the series and I happended to read in the paper that it was
showing. It's too bad it is not readily accessable to
all.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 12:23:01 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Re: re Pull My Daisy
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.2.810929633.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
I used two have 2
copies of the book Pull my Daisy. One I gave to the
photographer
Robert Frank and the other I sold. Both were BIG mistakes.
Robert Frank came
to Saskatoon a few years and showed the film. I'd also
seen it a couple
of times in London _years_ ago!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 15:36:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Youth Rebellion in the 1950s
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 12 Sep 1995
12:41:53 EDT
Is "Pull My
Daisy" even _available_ in video? Perhaps the folks from
Water Row would
know...
Jim S
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 12:49:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gerry Rouff
<rouffj@UCS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: re Pull My Daisy
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.810929633.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
Hi all:
don't forget that
Pull My Daisy was filmed by Robert Frank. Also
according to
"Jack's Book" [edited by Barry Gifford] Kerouac
ad-libbed the
dialogue.
regards
gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:09:21 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Pull My Daisy
Pull My Daisy
turns up frequently at film festivals around NYC. It was
screenedat a
recent Kerouac conference at NYU and will be part of "Beat
Culture and the
New America: 1950-1963" which opens at the Whitney on
November 9. For more information, see Meg Wolitzer's
article in the New
York Times, Sunday,
Sept. 11, 1995.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 15:56:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott Bauman
<ta001@AIX1.UCOK.EDU>
Subject: Academic treatment of the Beats
In-Reply-To: <12SEP95.16849810.0064.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
Question: Should the biographical history of the author
continue to be
the primary focus
of Beat criticism? I refer primarily to
Kerouac, but
Ginsberg and
Burroughs also suffer (whoops... have I just revealed my
bias?) from an
overabundance of biographical application, perhaps keeping
their works from
being considered in a more scholarly light.
Just another
random thought.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:58:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Blake List?
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.810929633.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu> from "Timothy K.
Gallaher" at Sep 12, 95 11:13:53
am
Dear fellow
BEAT-L subscribers--
Does anyone know
if a Blake mailing list exists?
Yesterday I read a
message on a
different list that included "blake-l@albion.com.bitnet" as
one of its
cross-posted addresses. I tried a query
to the
"albion.com.bitnet"
address, but got a message back that said my mail
was undeliverable
(if I were more of a Net whiz, I probably could figure
out how to make
the message "deliverable").
Thanks in advance.
Tony
atrigili@lynx.neu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:02:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Pull my diasy?
Or whatever the
title of this play they are talking about.
I was just
wondering if this
reading it sounds like is not included on the Box set
of Jack Kerouac
recordings that I have seen in stores.
Unfortunately I do
not have a copy
so I don't know.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:16:41 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Bowden
<tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: Re: re Pull My Daisy
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.2.810929633.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
"Timothy K.
Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU> writes:
> I saw Pull
My Daisy years ago at the Pacific Film Archive in Berkeley.
That may have
been the very site I saw it myself! It
would've been in
the seventies,
though.
Now, I'm going
out into the vague reaches of memory...my own recollection
is from a huge
stack of letters photocopied from the U of Texas collection;
the authors
Kerouac, Cassady, Burroughs, and Ginsberg, with bit parts
from Holmes and
assorted others, and with extended remarks from Carolyn
Cassady. My recall, with that caveat, is that Pull My
Daisy was a
group chorus,
with all the boys over time contributing a line, possibly
even over years
and through the mails. It would run
something like:
Pull my daisy
tug my chain
haul my boulder
drip my rain
..and on. The poem does exist separately; I don't know where or in
what form. (The above, of course, is but a parody, if
such be possible.)
But the movie is
one fix (and the unfortunate _Heart Beat_ is another)
on a phenomena
experienced by the Cassadys in Monte Sereno, near San
Jose, CA - that
being the juxtaposition of the studied underclass, in
the flavor of the
Cassadys, with the conventional neighborhood.
Common
Dostoyevskian
Beat theme.
See, the Cassadys
moved to Monte Sereno in the late fifties, into a
little frame
one-storey three-bedroom ranchito hacienda in the woods
above Los
Gatos. Time ticked a realtors' heaven
all about them; it
became quite a
swank neighborhood. If you drive by
there today, you
will behold an
upscale vicinity indeed. Some of the
tales I have heard
from those days
hinge on just that dynamic; a tire
recapper/ parking
lot
attendant/railroad spike and his family amidst retired admirals and
CEOs. The holy visit explored in _Pull My Daisy_ is
just one of
the interesting
encounters in Monte Sereno over that era.
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 15:16:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Re: re Pull My Daisy
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.950912124620.17992A-100000@ucs.orst.edu>
Just found this
at the U of Lowell:
AUTHOR: David
Amram Quartet.
TITLE: LIVE at
Musikfest! sound recording / David Amram Quartet.
PUBLICATION:
Putnam Valley, N.Y. : New Chamber Music Recordings, p1990.
DESCRIPTION: 1
sound disc (65 min.) : digital ; 4 3/4 in.
NOTES: David
Amram Quartet ; with special guest Paquito de Rivera.
NOTES: Music
arranged by David Amram.
NOTES: Musikfest
Montuno / Amram (7:55) -- Lover man / Davis ;
Ramirez ; Sherman
(8:27) -- Take the "A" train / Strayhorn
(8:09) -- Pull my
daisy / Amram ; Cassady ; Ginsburg ;
Kerouac (6:35) --
Saint Thomas / Rollins (6:06) --
Summertime / G.
& I. Gershwin (6:05) -- Tennessee waltz /
King ; Stewart
(6:02) -- Red River valley / trad. (5:09)
-- Blue Monk /
Monk (8:41).
NOTES: Recorded
at Musikfest, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, August 22, 1988 and
August 21, 1989.
SUBJECT: Jazz.
ADDED ENTRY: Amram, David.
ADDED ENTRY: D'Rivera, Paquito, 1948-
ADDED ENTRY: Musikfest Montuno.
ADDED ENTRY: Lover man.
ADDED ENTRY: Take the "A"
train.
ADDED ENTRY: Pull my daisy.
ADDED ENTRY: Saint Thomas.
ADDED ENTRY: Summertime.
ADDED ENTRY: Tennessee waltz.
ADDED ENTRY: Red River valley.
ADDED ENTRY: Blue Monk.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 15:33:21 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Re: re Pull My Daisy
In-Reply-To: <iu1BBD1w165w@clovis.nerdnosh.org>
Found at UC
Berkeley:
4. Hanover Records
Kerouac, Jack, 1922-1969.
Pull my daisy : the soundtrack.
[Phonotape]
Hanover, West Germany : Hanover Records,
1986.
Bancroft Phonotape 1795 C
Non-circulating; may be used
only in The Bancroft Library.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:41:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy
Comments: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:09:21 EDT from
<WXGBC%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Tue, 12 Sep
1995 16:09:21 EDT Bill Gargan said:
>Pull My Daisy
turns up frequently at film festivals around NYC. It was
>screenedat a
recent Kerouac conference at NYU and will be part of "Beat
>Culture and
the New America: 1950-1963" which opens at the Whitney on
>November
9. For more information, see Meg
Wolitzer's article in the New
>York Times,
Sunday, Sept. 11, 1995.
For more information,
see my "The Making (and Unmaking) of Pull My
Daisy," Film
History 2.3 (1988): 185-205, or, for a shorter,
alternative
version, "'Oh, Those Pull My Daisy Days,'" Moody
Street Irregulars
22-23 (Winter 1989-90): 4-10. For even
more,
find my Ph.D. dissertation,
"The Beat Generation and the New
American Cinema,
1956-60," Northwestern University, 1984.
Just to be
momentarily immodest.
Blaine Allan
ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:00:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Academic treatment of the Beats
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.950912155326.59797A-100000@aix1.ucok.edu> from
"Scott Bauman" at Sep
12, 95 03:56:29 pm
Scott Bauman
writes:
>
Question: Should the biographical
history of the author continue to be
> the primary
focus of Beat criticism? I refer
primarily to Kerouac, but
> Ginsberg and
Burroughs also suffer (whoops... have I just revealed my
> bias?) from
an overabundance of biographical application, perhaps keeping
> their works
from being considered in a more scholarly light.
Scott--
I love the Beats--and I share your
bias. I just finished
teaching
Contemporary Poetry this summer, and I had difficulty working
to help some
students take biographical detail *with them* into textual
and historical
explorations of Beat poetry.
We also had this trouble with many
other post-WW2 poets:
students seeing
for the first time the biographies of Lowell, Plath,
Berryman, Rich,
Sexton, Baraka, Bukowski, Lorde, et. al. (to name only
the first eight
at the top of my head) found biographical information so
powerful that
they occasionally got lost in it. The
willingness to get
lost is crucial,
to a certain extent. For some, though,
the trouble
came when I tried
to use their interests in biography as a springboard
toward looking at
the poems themselves.
At any rate, my students seemed to have
the most difficulty
moving from
biography to poetry (or back and forth between the two) in
our work with
Ginsberg and Kerouac. Of course, they
had lots of models
for their
resistance to extend biographical material into the poetry--
much of what they
see published in mainstream media outlets examines the
media presence of
the Beats at the expense of Beat literature itself. I
directed them to
useful scholarly sources, but it seems to me that too
many scholars
hold the same resistances as do mainstream media toward
textual/historical
analysis.
I do not mean to suggest (nor, I think,
does Scott) that textual
or historical
analysis must be the standard against which one measures
the value of
literature. I do think, however, that
Beat poetry measures
well against this
standard, and that this standard enhances the experience
of Beat
literature itself.
I recognize I may be
overgeneralizing. I would love to hear
how
others respond to
Scott's question.
Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:13:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat DataBase
This is a good
idea, and clearly it has been given a lot of thought. The
mechanics of
building such a database are admittedly beyond the scope of my
own skills, but
this would be my suggestion:
The same functions
(linking data, threads, etc.) could also be performed
using an
HTML-based archive. (I.E. via the world-wide web) Such an archive,
with links
between the various fields, would have the potential advantage of
a graphical
interface and would be relatively easier for the average joe (or
josephine) to
access and peruse. (Not all of us are sold on Microsoft
platforms,
anyway; it seems to me that HTML is a more universal
language-in-the-making.)
Again, I'm a
relative neophyte ("Dammit Jim, I'm a poet, not a computer
programmer!"),
but now you have my five cents worth (allowing for inflation).
W. Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:16:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Re: Academic treatment of the Beats
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
I think the issue
is that the nature of the work which is frequently
(auto)biographical.
On the other hand
it seems to me that the world of academe has applied quite
a bit of scholarship
to the movement. But you are right, much
of the focus
is ad hominem.
Another possible
focus, of course, is the cultural fabric in which the beats
existed.
Here the academic
community excels at puffing up...
Catch you later,
Andrew
cosmic@clark.net
>Question: Should the biographical history of the author
continue to be
>the primary
focus of Beat criticism?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 15:23:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat DataBase
In-Reply-To: <950912181304_17446577@mail02.mail.aol.com>
from "W. Luther Jett"
at Sep 12, 95 06:13:05 pm
> The same
functions (linking data, threads, etc.) could also be performed
> using an
HTML-based archive. (I.E. via the world-wide web) Such an archive,
Certainly an HTML
interface to the database would be ideal.
I think a
combination of a
database back-end with an HTML surface would be best. In
fact many
webmasters are currently looking to employ the power of relational
databases within
their websites.
I've been in
touch with Perry about this database idea, and would be happy
to provide access
through my website -- provided that somebody else does
all the work
building the database.
> Again, I'm a
relative neophyte ("Dammit Jim, I'm a poet, not a computer
>
programmer!"), but now you have my five cents worth (allowing for
inflation).
Your five cents
have been well spent.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 19:22:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re re Pull my Daisy
The complete (?)
text of "Pull My Daisy" (the poem) can be found on pages 3-5
of
"Scattered Poems" by Jack Kerouac (City Lights, 1971). Kerouac,
Ginsberg,
and Casady are
credited as the authors, and the date of composition is given
as 1948-1950?
(sic).
"Pull my
daisy
"tip my cup
"all my
doors are open
"Cut my
thoughts
"for
coconuts
"all my eggs
are broken . . . ."
I saw the flick
back in the seventies. The poem was set to music - perhaps
that's the David
Amram cut cited in someone else's post.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:14:36 GMT+1000
Reply-To: gboland@csu.edu.au
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gerard Boland
<GBOLAND@BARTS.MIT.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Pull my Daisy
Comments: cc:
"W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@aol.com>
On Tue, 12 Sep
1995 "W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@aol.com> wrote:
The complete (?)
text of "Pull My Daisy" (the poem) can be found on
pages 3-5 of
"Scattered Poems" by Jack Kerouac (City Lights, 1971).
Kerouac,
Ginsberg,and Casady are credited as the authors, and the date
of composition is
given as 1948-1950? (sic).
"Pull my
daisy
"tip my cup
"all my
doors are open
"Cut my
thoughts
"for
coconuts
"all my eggs
are broken . . . ."
I saw the flick
back in the seventies. The poem was set to music -
perhapsthat's the
David Amram cut cited in someone else's post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~oo0oo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hiya "W.
Luther Jett & All:
Well, sort of...
these are the versions of the poem(s) which were
developed over
several years...examples of those guys goofing
together...
But the text of
the film is something altogether different and quite
masterful in the
narrative effort by JK.
I saw it in
Newcastle-Upon-Tyne in 1982... was the first time that I
heard JK's
voice... I was really impressed by the expressive quality of
his voice (a
GREAT storyteller!) 11 yrs later got the CD set but alas
his work on Pull
My Daisy wasn't on them.
The Amram Quintet
(with Lynn Sheffield singing) version of one of the
poems can be
heard on "The Beat Generation" CD set, v. 2., I beleive
this is the
version that you also hear at the beginning and/or end of
the film.
On the other
thread re: Academia
Much of the
problem with the literary criticism of the time (and
continuing for
many years) was the effete and snivelling, high culture
BS of "The
New Criticism" and their effort to separate the author &
zeitgeist from
the work under consideration. They could understand
Kerouac not one
whit... a complete mismatch of aesthetic tastes and
concerns...
fuelled as well by post-war/Cold War paranoia and American
triumphalist
conformity to its own propaganda...
And they failed
to see the tenderness of his vision of America, and how
he continued the
threads spun out by Whitman, London, Wolfe, etc... the
vision of bums
and "marginals" didn't fit their vision of America and
what American
literature should be about.
Yow! Don't get me
started! Ha! Woooo! Woof!
And the other
thread re: Database
Bravo... I think
that Levi Asher's suggestion makes the most sense for
availability and
easy of access.
And finally...
who's gonna report on the conference/celebration in
Lowell?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 14:37:02 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News
Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Pull my diasy?
Jack's great
ad-lib dialog for this soundtrack is NOT on the RHino
anthology of
Kerouac's works (which is still a priceless great recording!)
cheers,
Bruce
----------
From: Nicholas
Herren <NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Pull my
diasy?
Date: Tuesday,
September 12, 1995 4:02PM
Or whatever the
title of this play they are talking about.
I was just
wondering if this
reading it sounds like is not included on the Box set
of Jack Kerouac
recordings that I have seen in stores.
Unfortunately I do
not have a copy
so I don't know.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:33:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: No Subject
not much
really...hes pretty vague....its called bannisteria cappi
(harmaline,telepathine...)you
may want to try burroughs book "the yage
letters"
other than
that...its a plant (the root of) that grows in south
america....burroughs
said that the indians there knew where to find it...they
used it as a
means to contact the spirits.....bill thought it may save his
life...beat
heroin....a wonderdrug---soma so to speak.
yage is mentioned
in almost all of bills work...the last i read it in was
"queer".
if you find out
more let me know!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:40:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dharma beat email change
how do i send you
the money???!!! i want a copy please!!!
drbenway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:37:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Academic treatment of the Beats
I can understand
the problems you are dealing with in trying to make people
see the actual
works of KEROUAC, GINSBERG, BURROUGHS, HOLMES.
I myself
have tried to get
people to read them in order that they might see this
vibrant and truly
awesome style of dealing with writing.
However people
always seem to
get stuck on the lives of the authors and cant see the works
as separate
entities.
But I can see how
this problem arises, especially with KEROUAC, IN THat
the works seem to
be so biographical that the lifestyle either intrigues
you or turns you
away and there for the question of the actual life always
comes up. So, i think it is important that people do
indeed know the
biographical
information because it helps you to see why they wrote what
they wrote.
That is why I
have taken a haitus from reading all of Kerouacs works until
I read Ann
Charters book of selected Letters. All
of these letters in the
book occur before
the publication of On The Road and therefore give a very
good light unto
Kerouacs state of mind.
Course thats just
my opinion, maybe Im just stuck in a corner like Holmes.
Nick Herren
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 06:48:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: More on the Database
Glad to see the
interest in making this available. I
would certainly be
delighted to make
this available through Levi's web site.
Now all we need is
some data --
actually a lot of data! Are there any
undergrads or grads out
there who want to
take this on as a project? No money, but
a lot of credit.
Perry Lindstrom
LindLitGrp@AOL.com
Arlington,VA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:21:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: re Pull My Daisy
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 12 Sep 1995
16:16:41 EDT
There is an
incredible reading of Pull My Daisy on the Ginsberg box
set.By the third
verse, he really gets rolling with the rhythm, and
manages to get
the crowd's spirit attached. It is presented in a longer
form than I ever
remember reading it... and is quite boisterous!
Tim -- if you'd like
a copy of this, you know how to get in touch with
me!
Jim S.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:30:36 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dharma beat subscriptions
To subscribe
($5.00) or purchase a single copy ($2.00), of Dharma beat
send check or cash
to:
The Jack Kerouac
subterranean Information Society
Box 1753
Lowell, MA 01852
Thanks.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:31:39 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Dharma beat zip
Sorry, make that
Lowell, MA <<01853>> .
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:56:30 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: Pull my Daisy
Comments: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:14:36 GMT+1000
from
<GBOLAND@BARTS.MIT.CSU.EDU.AU>
On Wed, 13 Sep
1995 10:14:36 GMT+1000 Gerard Boland said:
>
>The Amram
Quintet (with Lynn Sheffield singing) version of one of the
>poems can be
heard on "The Beat Generation" CD set, v. 2., I beleive
>this is the
version that you also hear at the beginning and/or end of
>the film.
Not exactly. This is a rerecording, first released (I
believe) on
Amram's LP No
More Walls. The original track was sung
by Anita Ellis.
Apart from her
own recording and performances on stage and on radio,
she is noted for
having dubbed singing voices for Hollywood movie stars.
Along this line,
she's probably best known for the singing voice of
Rita Hayworth in
Gilda.
Blaine Allan ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:46:04 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:41:18 EDT from
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Blaine, if your
dissertation is available through UMI, you might include the or
der number in
case people wish to purchase.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:27:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sherry Linkon
<sjlinkon@CC.YSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Academic treatment of the Beats
Comments: To:
Tony Trigilio <atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<199509122200.SAA20079@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
I'm starting a
class on 50s lit next week, and I hope to generate some
discussion about
this very point. My students tend to
love the Beats,
while I am
(horrors) ambivalent about them, especially on biographical
grounds. In literary terms, they're clearly important
and intriguing,
and I want to
move my students past their hero-worship to consider how a
writer's image
intersects with his/her work. Examining
the Beats in the
context of the
times will help with this -- at least, that's my hope.
Sherry Linkon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:07:48 GMT+1000
Reply-To: gboland@csu.edu.au
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gerard Boland
<GBOLAND@BARTS.MIT.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Academic treatment of the Beats
Just the other
day, Sherry Linkon wrote:
>I'm starting
a class on 50s lit next week, and I hope to generate some
>discussion
about this very point. My students tend
to love the Beats,
>while I am
(horrors) ambivalent about them, especially on biographical
>grounds. In literary terms, they're clearly important
and intriguing,
>and I want to
move my students past their hero-worship to consider how
>a writer's
image intersects with his/her work.
Examining the Beats in
>the context
of the times will help with this -- at least, that's my
>hope.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~oo0oo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My advice would
be to avoid On The Road... but start with things like
"October in
the Railroad Earth" and "Howl"...
Now, what are
they talking about? Does this sound like the America that
you know? Sure,
R&R was starting to kick along but what was American
society so
uptight about? Why was the social conformity such a big deal?
In a real sense,I
reckon that one could argue that the beats were the
first post
modernists to be published in America [ok, Joyce, etc... but
nevertheless its
a good discussion starter] and a big part of the
problem was that
the literary critics were all modernists who were
arguing for the
"high culture" centre of American society. And the beats
were wailing at
the "margins" and scratched open all of the latent
feelings of
"cultural cringe" in relation to Europe and (of course) the
presumed &
presumptious "centre" of American society.
But back to your
class:
I'd also use
selections from the CD recordings... on that score don't
miss JK's
"The Three Stooges" and especially his reading of "Old Angel
Midnight"...
Find a recording
of Ginsberg reading "Howl" and "America" (somebody
please let me
know where I too can find this on
CD!)...
And most of all,
get them to prepare "moved readings" of their favourite
selections... to
be rehearsed and read in class and/or your student
union... readings
with multiple participants work particurly well...
especially when
you can include live music... lots of people have
musical ability
and you might consider tapping/taping this!
Best of luck
professor sherry!
And just since
I'm on line here... here's a snatch of poetry that I
really like from
McClure's "Love Me for the Fool I Am (the laughing
angle-imbecile)
Our love is
flawed
and swallowed
by the rush of
time.
A mindless
innocence,
they say,
is crime.
We dance on
borrowed feet.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:23:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sherry Linkon
<sjlinkon@CC.YSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Academic treatment of the Beats
Comments: To:
Gerard Boland <GBOLAND@BARTS.MIT.CSU.EDU.AU>
In-Reply-To: <3AED8813452@barts.mit.csu.edu.au>
I should have
clarified that I have taught this material before, which is
why Ihave some
sense of students' responses. One cool
"trick" used on
the last round,
which positioned the Beats in context with abstract
expressionist
painting and jazz and rock and roll, was to show a film of
Jackson Pollock
in the act of painting, but with the sound turned off on
the film and
replaced by a tape of Ginsburg reading "Howl" and then
Charlie Parker's
"Night in Tunisia." The
intersection makes clear that
there are
rhythmic patterns that link the various artistic genres. I
have students
perform readings regularly in all kinds of lit classes -- a
good suggestion,
Gerald. Also, one of my students works
at the campus
coffee house,
where one of his jobs it to arrange the monthly poetry
readings. So for October, he wants to have a Beat Beat
(the name of the
coffeehouse is
The Beat) Halloween reading, and invite members of the
class and anyone
else who's interested to both read Beat lit and dress up
in their best
version of Beat garb. The readings are
usually accompanied
by jazz, and I
assume this one would be, too. Part of
me loves this idea
and part of me
worries that this is part of that Beat hero-worship, which
may keep people
from reading the Beats and their period critically.
We'll see.
Sherry Linkon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 02:45:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "James D. Barger"
<CoolMadman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Academic treatment of the Beats
Sherry Linkon
writes:
>>Part of
me loves this idea and part of me worries that this is part of that
Beat
hero-worship, which may keep people from reading the Beats and their
period
critically.
We'll
see.<<
Sure, there's a
bit o' hero worship of the Beats in certain circles. But,
what's wrong with
an excitement over talent and art? Yeah,
it's annoying
when the image of
these old and dead artists overshadows their work. Yet,
I'm glad to know
that their art is kept alive in any form.
I say "worship
whatever you find
worthy." As long as you maintain
just enough objectivity
to fool people
into thinking that you're not totally mad.
The fact is that
some of the Beats did lead lives that were extraordinary,
while many other
artists lead rather mundane existances.
And, in some cases,
Beatnik writers'
lives were a form of art in their own right.
Certainly, if
all of those
stories had been pure fiction, they never would have gained the
level of
popularity that they did. Much of their
accomplishments would have
been lost to
future generations. It is often the
reality of their lives --
and the myths --
that pulls 18-year-old kids into bookstores in search of
something
beautiful and powerful.
James Barger
Jacksonville,
Florida
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:02:54 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: LisaTMP@aol.com
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: reminder of Dallas beat event
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Please post this
to your mailing list if you think it's appropriate--It was
posted earlier
this summer, buut it opens next week and wanted to remind
everyone. Thanks very much.
"VISIONARIES
AND REBELS:
AMERICAN LITERATURE
AFTER THE ATOM BOMB"
SCHEDULE OF FALL
EVENTS
For press
information:
Lisa Taylor,
Taylor-Made Press
(214) 943-1099
Revised Aug. 4,
1995
EXHIBIT
"VISIONARIES
AND REBELS: AMERICAN LITERATURE AFTER THE ATOM BOMB"
AN EXHIBIT OF THE
COLOPHON MODERNS COLLECTION
FIRST EDITION
BOOKS FROM 1950-1975
SEPT. 20-NOV. 17
AT SMU DEGOLYER LIBRARY, 6404 Hilltop Lane.
The exhibit will
be FREE and open to the public Monday-Friday 8:30 a.m.-5
p.m. as well as
during special events. Call (214)
768-3225 for more
information. The exhibit of over 60 works, curated by SMU
alumna Mary
Courtney, includes first editions by Edward Albee,
James Baldwin, Saul
Bellow, Richard
Brautigan, Charles Bukowski, William Burroughs, Robert
Creeley, James
Dickey, Joan Didion, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Allen Ginsberg,
Joseph Heller,
Robert Kelly, Jack Kerouac, Ken Kesey, Norman Mailer, Larry
McMurtry,
Flannery O'Connor, Joyce Carol Oates, Gary Snyder, Kurt Vonnegut,
Anne Waldman and
Thomas Wolfe.
OPENING NIGHT
CELEBRATION/TALK
Sept. 20 6:30
p.m. DeGolyer Library
6404 Hilltop
Lane, SMU Campus. Free, donations accepted.
Opening
celebration in honor of charter members and former presidents of the
Friends of SMU
Libraries. Decherd Turner will speak on "My Literary Dilemma:
Too Young to be
Lost, Too Old to be Beat"
BEAT FILMS
Presented in
conjunction with Southwest Film and Video Archives at Greer
Garson Theatre
Building third floor, Meadows School of the Arts, SMU Campus.
FREE ADMISSION.
Donations accepted.
Sept. 28 7:30
p.m.
Jack Kerouac's
Road : Through photographs, archival film footage, interviews
and skillful
reconstructions of events, Jack Kerouac's Road
traces the life
of this gifted
American writer. French with English
subtitles.
William S. Burroughs:
Commissioner of the Sewers: A portrait of the author
who created Naked
Lunch. With his characteristically dry
wit and subtle
humor, Burroughs
talks about language and other weapons, about the work as a
virus, about
death and dreams, about travel in time and space.
Sept. 29 7:30
p.m.
Kerouac: An award
winning docu-drama about the King of the Beat Generation,
Jack Kerouac.
OVER
PAGE TWO
SMU
FILMS OF ROBERT
FRANK
Presented in
conjunction with Dallas Artists Research & Exhibition in the
CineMac at The
McKinney Avenue Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave. $2
for DARE members
and
Friends of SMU
Libraries; $4 general
Oct. 6-7 8 p.m./ Oct. 8 3 p.m
Pull My Daisy and
Energy and How to Get It
Oct. 13-14 at 8
p.m., Oct. 15 at 3 p.m.
This Song for
Jack and Hunter
Oct. 20-21 8 p.m., Oct. 22 3 p.m.
Conversations in
Vermont and Life Dances On
Oct. 27-28 8 p.m., Oct. 29 3 p.m.
C'est Vrai
MOMENTS WITH THE
MODERNS: A READING SERIES
Presented by The
Writer's Garret in the Atrium of the Hughes-Trigg Student
Center, SMU. FREE
ADMISSION. Donations accepted.
Oct. 5 7:30 p.m.
READING BETWEEN THE LINES: An interactive/dramatic reading
and critique of
the works of Jack Kerouac, with emphasis on On the Road.
Mark Hankla will play Jack Kerouac, and Joe
Stanco will be "the interviewer"
who corners,
crowds, and cajoles him in deeper definition.
Oct. 12 7:30 p.m.
READING BETWEEN THE LINES: An interactive/dramatic reading
and critique of
the works of James Baldwin, with emphasis on Go Tell It On
the
Mountain. Fred Gardner will play James
Baldwin, Glodean Baker-Gardner
will be the
interviewer.
Oct. 26 7:30 p.m.
REEL/REAL WRITERS: a screening of a Lannan Literary Video,
which features
Allen Ginsberg on video, with Joe Stanco live.
Encore
performance from
The Mac.
EAT TO THE
BEAT-DINING
Michele's Coffee
Bar & Cafe, 6617 Snider Plaza, will present a benefit night
on Monday, Oct. 2
5-9:30 p.m. for the Friends of the SMU Libraries. Drumming
by Jamal Mohmed.
Proceeds will benefit the Friends' organization. Call
691-8164 for
reservations.
PANEL DISCUSSION
In celebration of
The Southwest Review's 80th Anniversary
'A Literary
Overview of the Post War Period"
Thursday, Oct. 19
at 7:30 p.m. FREE.
Hughes-Trigg
Student Center Auditorium, SMU campus
The panel will be
moderated by Willard Spiegelman, Prof. of
Literature at
SMU, with
participation by Steven Kellman, Ashbel
Smith Professor of
Comparative
Literature, UT San Antonio; Jack Myers, Professor of English,
SMU. Additional panelists to be announced.
MORE
PAGE THREE
SMU
MUSIC
Meadows New Music
Ensemble
Nov. 8 8 p.m. O'Donnell Lecture Recital Hall SMU
Meadows School of the Arts
FREE
Improvisational performance of beat poetry and music.
SMU LITERARY
FESTIVAL
1995 Student Book
Collecting Contest
Awards
presentation
Nov. 17 at Hughes Trigg Student Center
All full-time
undergraduate and graduate SMU students are eligible to enter
this contest
sponsored the Friends of the SMU Libraries.
Deadline for
entries is Nov.
1. Display of the winning book
collections and a reception
honoring the
winners takes place at 6:30 p.m. in DeGolyer Library prior to
the presentation
of the awards by the SMU Literary Festival guest author in
the Hughes Trigg
Theater. To commemorate the Friends'
25th anniversary, a
special prize
will be given to the collection that best establishes the
original Colophon
Collection theme.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 15:13:12 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: October In The Railroad Earth
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Thu, 14 Sep 1995
14:02:54 EDT
Plans are now
underway for the second OITRE festival, which will again
be held in the
far north Lake Superior 'burb of Marquette, Michigan. An
evening full of
readings, music, and peformance, the gathering is
scheduled for
October 19th, at The Koffee Haus on North Third Street.
Information can
be had by e-mailing jstedman@nmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 16:36:13 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Vicente Garcia Pineiro
<vgarcia@GOLIAT.UGR.ES>
Subject: (fwd) PERU: Medicine Men, Hallucinogens and
Neuro-psychiatry
Reciently, some people have asked about yage, ayahuasca,
etc.
I think this can
be interesting for them.
Vic
>Newsgroups:
misc.activism.progressive
>Subject:
PERU: Medicine Men, Hallucinogens and Neuro-psychiatry
>Followup-To:
alt.activism.d
>Date: 31 Aug
1995 23:08:55 GMT
>Organization:
PACH
>Lines: 140
>Approved:
map@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
>Message-ID:
<425fe7$lvs@news.missouri.edu>
>NNTP-Posting-Host:
pencil.cs.missouri.edu
>/** ppn.peru:
201.0 **/
>** Topic:
IPS: PERU: Medicine Men, Hallucinogens and Neuro-psychiatry **
>**
Written 4:04 PM Aug 19, 1995 by newsdesk in cdp:ppn.peru **
> Copyright 1995 InterPress Service, all
rights reserved.
> Worldwide distribution via the APC
networks.
>
> *** 16-Aug-95 ***
>
>Title: PERU:
Medicine Men, Hallucinogens and Neuro-psychiatry
>
>by Abraham
Lama
>
>LIMA, Aug 16
(IPS) - When Peruvian medicine men and their patients
>drink the
juice of the ''san pedro'' cactus they have astonishing
>visions which
are interpreted as messages and answers by the
>shaman.
>
>A similar
effect is achieved by drinking the ''ayahuasca''
>(rope of the
dead), a vine from the Amazon forest taken in
>sessions
where darkness, whistles, chanting in strange tongues and
>the sound of
rhythmically shaken seeds create a collective
>emotional
atmosphere.
>
>Hallucinogens
extracted from the ''san pedro'' cactus (written
>without
capital letters so as not to offend the saint) and the
>''ayahuasca''
are ritual tools of Peruvian shamans.
>
>The healer
considers his activity sacred. The hallucinations he
>has are seen
as bridges between earthly reality and the heavenly
>plane.
>
>Hallucinogens
have been used for magical therapy since ancient
>times in
Peru. Representations of the process can be seen in
>textiles and
a mural from the Chavin temple in Huantar.
>
>Historian and
Catholic Priest Bernabe Cobo who arrived with the
>conquering
Spanish soldiers, reported the use of the ''achuma''
>cactus by the
original population.
>
>''It is the
plant through which the devil possesses the Indians
>of
Peru...Those who drink the juice lose their reason and are left
>as though
dead, transported by this drink they dream 1,000
>extravagances
and believe them as though they were true,'' he
>wrote.
>
>''The juice
can be used against burning kidneys and a small
>quantity will
ease a fever, jaundice and burning urine,'' he
>added.
Italian anthropologist and archaeologist Mario Polia
>travelled the
mountain and coastal provinces of northern Peru for
>20 years
excavating and collecting oral history.
>
>In his
opinion, Christianity has only added a gloss on
>continuing
pagan myths and practices.
>
>Polia said
the healers claim the spirit of the cactus takes
>them to the
''gardens of Manco Capac'', the first healer who
>brought
medicinal knowledge to the Incas. That is where the first
>power comes
from, but all the action is taken in the name of the
>Christian
God.
>
>This fusion
of two religious roots explains why the healers'
>''tables'' -
which are often simply a rug on the ground - have
>pre-Colombian
articles alongside Catholic relics.
>
>The origin of
the name ''san pedro'' is explained in many ways.
>One of the
stories goes that ''Jesus played a trick on Saint Peter
>one time by
hiding his keys to heaven.''
>
>''Saint Peter
tired himself out looking all over the
>countryside
for the lost keys, and finally, worn out and hungry he
>sat down under
a cactus and chewed on one of its roots which
>helped him to
''see'' where the keys were. Jesus said, ''How did
>you find
them?'' and Saint Peter answered, ''I ate this cactus,''
>and Jesus
said, ''With this you can heal and you can see.''''
>
>The Peruvian
medicine men have provided much information on
>medicinal
plants to modern medicine, ranging from Quinnine to
>''una de
gato'' (cat's claw), which strengthens the immune system
>and may be
used to treat AIDS in future.
>
>Neuro-psychiatrist
Fernando Cavieses, leading researcher into
>Peruvian
traditional medicine and herbalism, explained that the
>healers and
doctors both live within the same social space.
>
>''As a result
of their training, aims, ideology and respective
>interests, the
professions are separate. There is often conflict
>between them,
but there have also been exchanges which have
>benefitted
both,'' he said.
>
>Cavieses said
that the cactus product was very helpful in the
>field of
neuropsychiatry and in the modern theory of neuro-
>transmitters.
>
>''The
extract, taken from the ''san pedro'' cactus, was the
>first pure
alkaloid hallucinogen to be studied scientifically, and
>this
experimentation opened up new ground for modern
>psychopharmology,''
said Cavieses.
>
>Researchers
studying shamanism worldwide have pointed out the
>importance of
the rhythm of the sessions, which goes much further
>than a simple
creation of atmosphere.
>
>''The
drumming, the sound of the maracas or the sound of any
>instrument
which produces and maintains a rhythm at the beginning
>of a
shamanism session constitutes one of the preliminary
>conditions of
the ecstatic journey,'' said Cavieses.
>
>''The healer
says it is to call the spirits. But its real
>effect,
though the shaman is not aware, is the creation of a
>biological
rhythm which encourages the trance state he wants to
>cause. It is
the rationalisation of the irrational,'' he said.
>
>In the words
of a Siberian shaman quoted by anthropologist W.D.
>Bogoras, ''If
you go out into the wilderness. You will find a
>drum. If you
start to beat it you will see the whole world.''
>(END/IPS/tra-so/al/ag/sm/95)
>
>
>Origin:
Amsterdam/PERU/
> ----
>
> [c] 1995, InterPress Third World News
Agency (IPS)
> All rights reserved
>
> May not be reproduced, reprinted or posted to
any system or
> service outside of
the APC networks,
without specific
> permission from IPS. This limitation includes distribution
> via
Usenet News, bulletin board systems, mailing lists,
> print media
and broadcast. For information
about cross-
> posting, send
a message to
<ips-info@igc.apc.org>. For
> information
about print or broadcast reproduction please
> contact the IPS coordinator at
<ipsrom@gn.apc.org>.
>
>** End of
text from cdp:ppn.peru **
>
>***************************************************************************
>This material
came from PeaceNet, a non-profit progressive networking
>service. For more information, send a message to
peacenet-info@igc.apc.org
>***************************************************************************
>
>
>--
> == Daniel Davidson ==
> ** Don't hit. Clean your mess
**
> davidson@sfsu.edu
>
> It is considered appropriate to
sustain conditions
> which are against the best interests of
almost everyone.
>
>
>-----BEGIN
PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>Version:
2.6.2
>
>mQCNAzAVWFkAAAEEAK7c1Dr6/2ADAynrTrdUsQgNZTBeloB1q0N3pxw+CVoLWND1
>d+Wc0CsfE3ESP5SR77+IRXLYPekT+M9ZFVGEdw/jVi+qejfACvTzXjC0Hh0VIHHg
>8WYoBgTf1HokPQ6T6gR6ecar7fxf7PU4mrYcTKj/p30vrSsCORzLvHN9kyA5AAUR
>tCNEYW5pZWwgRGF2aWRzb24gPGRhdmlkc29uQHNmc3UuZWR1Pg==
>=gzBX
>-----END PGP
PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 00:39:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pull my Daisy
On text of poem
thread. Original publication was in 1950 under AG's name as
"Fie My
Fum" in NEUROTICA #6, AG's first commercial publication. Text was
Allen's with some
rearrangement by JK. Later, the extended text was published
in the book of
Pull my Daisy Grove 1961. AG noted some lines of Kerouac's and
one by
Cassidy. The both texts are in AG's
Gates of Wrath, with a note on
the various
Version at the end.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:12:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy
Comments: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:46:04 EDT from
<WXGBC%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Wed, 13 Sep
1995 09:46:04 EDT Bill Gargan said:
>Blaine, if
your dissertation is available through UMI, you might include the or
>der number in
case people wish to purchase.
By popular
request, the order number is AAC 8423199, and it's available
from University
Microfilms International, 300 North Zeeb Road, Ann
Arbor, MI 48106.
The title is
"The New American Cinema and the Beat Generation, 1956-1960"
(I think I had it
the other way round in my earlier post), written for
Northwestern
University and completed in 1984. It
includes chapters on
the study of
subcultures; the Beat Generation as a subculture; the New
American Cinema
as a movement in the US cinematic avant-garde; and
case studies on
Jazz on a Summer's Day (Bert Stern's documentary on
the 1958 Newport
Jazz Festival), the low-budget feature-length dramas
On the Bowery
(Lionel Rogosin, 1956) and Shadows (John Cassavetes, 1959),
and, of course,
Pull My Daisy (a 95-page chapter, I'm abashed to note).
Blaine Allan
ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:39:45 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Bowden <tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: _Big Sur_, Gutenberg, and us
In-Reply-To: <14SEP95.16437661.0075.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
Took _Visions of
Cody_ off the shelf at the local bookshop, sat down
with it, opened
to where the rhapsody begins, chapter 2.
Tell me where
there is language
that sings like this? Rarely anywhere in
English, to
my ear.
But I wonder how
many agree. I mean by this, how many
regard Kerouac as
a writer, and not
just a literary figure? I have to wonder
when I see
this area filled
up with references to movies, CDs, and whether some rock
star is or isn't
truly a Beat.
I'm not
suggesting anything about current literacy rates. I'm
suspecting there
has always been a more general celebration of Kerouac
the King of the
Beats than there have been earnest and ardent readers of
the canon. When I was young, I could mutter `Pick up,
man, pick up' or
`forgetful road
buddy' and be understood by one or two of those close to
me. When I say, `You know what President Truman
said,' how many today
would know what I
mean?
And maybe the
lack of attention isn't solely with the readers. Take _Big
Sur_. Now, you can read all of Tolstoi and maybe
come up with one typo
in the whole of
it. That's because it is read closely by
editors,
translators, and
the public. But look at Chapter 24 of
_Sur_, beginning
with line #5:
his pet hawk, of all things, the hawk
is black as night
and sits there
Now, that line
was blown by the printers the first time around. Know
how I know? Because they removed the linotype - and set
the incorrect
copy over in the
next page, so that it reads
up, the car even of all thinks, the
hawk is black as night
and sits there faster in lieu of
rubbing his hands with
beginning about
line 22 of page 109 of the Bantam edition.
The printer saw
he had `thinks' for `things', I suppose, and removed the
offending type,
but dropped it in the same measure into another part of
the text. This was in 1962. And that printer's error remains to this
day, in the most
recent quality paperback versions.
If you leave
aside some of the silliness and self-indulgence of Kerouac,
his line is easy
to follow. I never understood why some
thought
_Subterraneans_ a
difficult read - it is the exact frenetic and
flavorful pace of
someone rapt and eager telling a tale, and it all
rhymes. K is not Joyce, nor Gertrude Stein. He should be read just as
you might listen
to a frantic exuberant intricate song from a very able
wordslinger...
But I think the
books were not well-read. Oh, I know
_Road_ is taught
at schools and
often you see it laying about dorms, but I'm not sure
very many souls
actually open it anymore. My own
personal shibboleth is
this glaring error
in _Big Sur_, in existence lo these 33 years and
more...
Tim Bowden
tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:52:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Big Sur
I'm sorry but I
think you are just plain wrong on your interpretation of
Kerouacs
writing. Who cares if thinks is written
on the 109 th page of
the 216 book
instead of thing or if anyone still reads his writing.
The whole point
behind his genius is what he had to say.
And its not just
about smoking
'tea' and taking benzidrine or drinking himself to death.
How can you read
Big Sur and not imagine yourself on that beach or making
that damn in the
stream for the water or sitting in a chair with just utter
contempt for all
the shit in the society that has gone so wrong.
Or read
Dharma Bums and
see that the is spelled teh instead of being on top of the
mountain and then
running down it or taking to some crazy guy or imagining
just being for
one day with someone like Japhy Ryder someone who actually
has still got a
little bit of energy and enthusiam for this life instead of
a plentitude of
boredom.
Whats the big
deal about Joyce anyway. Who wants to
write a book that is
utterly
incomprehensible. And if you are
complaining that Kerouac is un
understandable i
suggest you try to read Joyce (who himself is just mimicking
the irish or
scottish dialect in my opinion).
Why even read
anything if all you are doing is looking for errors. I just
read GO and it
has over ten errors itself I am sure because I ACTUALLY DID
READ IT, but I
dont care because it actually moved me the passage about
STROFSKY
(Ginsberg) and his visions to utter distress.
Ah hell its all
just a bunch of shit anyway, why do you care?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:28:57 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Bowden
<tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: Re: Big Sur
In-Reply-To: <01HVB4T79FIE0052OU@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU> writes:
> I'm sorry
but I think you are just plain wrong on your interpretation of
> Kerouacs
writing.
I'm not sorry,
but you have badly mangled an effort to interpret the
article you are
attempting to follow.
> Who cares if
thinks is written on the 109 th page of
> the 216 book
instead of thing or if anyone still reads his writing.
> The whole
point behind his genius is what he had to say.
Obviously, not
enough care, or even notice. Did
you? And wouldn't a
concern for what
he had to say be assumed from a close reading of the
text?
I agree with
Kerouac's own assessment; he was a
wordslinger, not an
idea man, and
what he had to say was in the diction, and not in the
doings. In fact, _Big Sur_ is the history of a fairly
common alcoholic
breakdown, less
the prosody. It is the telling, more
than the tale.
> ..contempt
for all the shit in the society that has gone so wrong.
What has gone
wrong in _Big Sur_ is in the author's mind and body. This
wasn't a
traditional rage against conformity and compromise, like
_Dharma Bums_.
> Whats the
big deal about Joyce anyway. Who wants
to write a book that
> is utterly
incomprehensible. And if you are
complaining that Kerouac
> is un
understandable i suggest you try to read Joyce (who himself is
> just
mimicking the irish or scottish dialect in my opinion).
(1) My point was
exactly the reverse, as I stated quite clearly - in
most cases,
Kerouac is eminently comprehensible, even to younger newage
readers, and
(2) I've read Joyce, thanks.
> Why even
read anything if all you are doing is looking for errors.
The presence of
blatant errors in the text is an indication of the care
that goes into
the preparing, and ultimately the reading, of the volume.
And this
particular error rears up to a careful reader without the need
to look for it.
It isn't just a
typo, it's a complete mangling of the rhythm and sense
of the
passage. Now, that strikes to the heart
of what is important
about
Kerouac. So, what could be more
significant than a fowling of the
very essence? You think _Sur_ is just a story about a
halcyon time in a
cabin off the
beach? It's much closer to Dante (the
opening is very
similar,
deliberately so - especially when you realize the actual
terrain, which I
have walked, is nothing like the fearful hellish
setting of the
story) than to a Boekecker guide to the California coast.
Can you imagine a
stray line of junk type cast carelessly about in
_The Inferno_?
It is words
singing, or it's nothing, son...
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:15:52 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Visionsof Cody&BigSurstuff
Well now,
I don't know that
these discussions are worth getting upset over, but at the
same time I do
enjoy and appreciate passion and not to say a good healthy
emotional
argument from time to time.
James Joyce's
books are not all unintelligible or hard to understand. The
stories in
Dubliners and the novel portrait of the artist as young man are
not difficult except
in vocabulary and breadth of knowledge presented in these
books. In Ulysses and Finnegans wake his books
became much more difficult to
understand as he
began his delving into the subconsious.
Yet Ulysses is
readable to
anyone who can read Visions of Cody. Of course FW then delves into
the unconscious
and becomes quite difficult to understand.
Kerouac was
influenced heavily by Joyce and in some cases is difficult to read
in a similar
manner as Joyce. Visions of Cody and Dr.
Sax are probably his
most difficult
books to read. I think kerouac
considered these two to be
his best works as
well. The best example of a difficult to
read work by
Kerouac is Old
Angel Midnight. It was heavily Wake
inspired and Kerouac wrote
that he felt it
was a failed attempt. (I read this in
the recent letters book-
if anyone wants
more detail as to what he said about Old Angel Midnight I will
look it up and
present it here).
In Visions of
Cody Kerouac shows his Joyce influence by mentioning Gogarty.
Gogarty was
Joyce's friend who was the model for Stately Plump Buck Mulligan.
A large part of
Visions of Cody as i recall includes such literary allusions
as I think part
of the Visions of Cody book was chronicling Kerouacs
development as an
artist. The book is multilveled and
seeks to ultimately
tell the story of
Cody but in doing so he tells his story of his quest to
develop a way to
fully embody Cody in print.
Dr. Sax has
difficult passages as it embodies dreams and fantasy as well as
the everday reality
of the young Duluoz. And for youngsters
these worlds
merge. "Transcendenta transcendenta we will
dance a mad cadenza". I mean,
what does this
mean? Well somehow we know exactly what
it means.
Anyhow, pointing
out typos is of interest to me and probably most of us.
I wonder how many
typos are in Visions of Cody? Or Dr. Sax?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 20:31:28 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Bowden
<tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: Re: Visionsof Cody&BigSurstuff
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.2.811203352.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
"Timothy K.
Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU> writes:
> I don't know
that these discussions are worth getting upset over-
For the record,
my blood pressure is normal or below, and I have the
utmost respect
for Nicholas. I intend passion, because
the blood
pumps in me for
these many years in tune with the text I'm describing,
yet I mean no
offense to anyone here.
> Anyhow,
pointing out typos is of interest to me and probably most of us.
> I wonder how
many typos are in Visions of Cody? Or Dr. Sax?
Let me say once
again - I don't regard what I have described as a simple
typo. Think of Wagner's Prelude to Act III of
Lohengrin, how sombre and
moving without
feet it is. Now imagine in the center of
all that
welling up high
eternity and drama in the dusk a strumming silly banjo
doing two bars of
fractured Lady of Spain.
Now think of
nobody in the audience, nor the conductor, nor the
critics, nor god
even, noticing. One voice crying in the
woods,
the work's
debased! And it's like a lone tree
falling....
See?
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 06:45:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "James D. Barger"
<CoolMadman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
In a message
dated 95-09-15 17:26:38 EDT, you write:
>I agree with
Kerouac's own assessment; he was a
wordslinger, not an
>idea man, and
what he had to say was in the diction, and not in the
>doings. In fact, _Big Sur_ is the history of a fairly
common alcoholic
>breakdown,
less the prosody. It is the telling,
more than the tale.
YES! Yes, yes, yes!
It is in the
telling. The journey IS the
destination. The journey of words
is the thing.
James Barger
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 10:46:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Heeg, Michael"
<mheeg@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
I couldn't agree with you more, the errors
, typographical, are
meaningless, the real essence of these books are the
meaning within,
how or what does reading this particular
text move you. It's the
ability for you to see things in a way
that you might not normally
see.
I have , also, read Dharma Bums, Big Sur, Go , and others and
have noticed errors, but that doesn't
effect me. By the way, has J.C.
Holmes written anything that might be
worth reading, besides GO? It
is interesting to read , for example Road
and Go , and compare these
two pieces of literature since the detail
a lot of the same people and
activities, but in an entirely differenr
light.
michael
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Big Sur
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 9/15/95 4:08 PM
I'm sorry but I
think you are just plain wrong on your interpretation of
Kerouacs
writing. Who cares if thinks is written
on the 109 th page of
the 216 book
instead of thing or if anyone still reads his writing.
The whole point
behind his genius is what he had to say.
And its not just
about smoking
'tea' and taking benzidrine or drinking himself to death.
How can you read
Big Sur and not imagine yourself on that beach or making
that damn in the
stream for the water or sitting in a chair with just utter
contempt for all
the shit in the society that has gone so wrong.
Or read
Dharma Bums and
see that the is spelled teh instead of being on top of the
mountain and then
running down it or taking to some crazy guy or imagining
just being for
one day with someone like Japhy Ryder someone who actually
has still got a little
bit of energy and enthusiam for this life instead of
a plentitude of
boredom.
Whats the big
deal about Joyce anyway. Who wants to
write a book that is
utterly
incomprehensible. And if you are
complaining that Kerouac is un
understandable i
suggest you try to read Joyce (who himself is just mimicking
the irish or
scottish dialect in my opinion).
Why even read
anything if all you are doing is looking for errors. I just
read GO and it
has over ten errors itself I am sure because I ACTUALLY DID
READ IT, but I
dont care because it actually moved me the passage about
STROFSKY
(Ginsberg) and his visions to utter distress.
Ah hell its all
just a bunch of shit anyway, why do you care?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:25:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 15 Sep 1995 to 16 Sep
1995
No, the errors
are important. My understanding is that Kerouac took every
word he wrote
seriously, and hated being edited by his publishers because it
destroyed the
rhythm which is all important. Just because he wrote fast and
spontaneously
doesn't mean each word wasn't weighed and isn't important. The
message is there
of course, the essence is there, but surely the genius of
Kerouac as
opposed to others who try to write spontaneous prose, lies in the
rhythm. Compare
with jazz impros; you wouldn't put up with a recording
engineer
interfering by mixing in a wrong or unmeant note, it would be a
travesty. As a
publisher, maybe I take all of this sort of thing too
seriously, but
the original post was right - it is a disgrace and it -does-
affect a full
appreciation.
Nick
Weir-Williams
>
> I couldn't agree with you more, the errors
, typographical, are
> meaningless, the real essence of these books are the
meaning within,
> how
or what does reading this particular text move you. It's the
> ability for you to see things in a way
that you might not normally
> see.
I have , also, read Dharma Bums, Big Sur, Go , and others and
> have noticed errors, but that doesn't
effect me. By the way, has J.C.
> Holmes written anything that might be
worth reading, besides GO? It
> is interesting to read , for example Road
and Go , and compare these
> two pieces of literature since the detail
a lot of the same people and
> activities, but in an entirely differenr
light.
>
> michael
>
>
>______________________________
Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Big
Sur
>Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
>Date: 9/15/95 4:08 PM
>
>
>I'm sorry but
I think you are just plain wrong on your interpretation of
>Kerouacs
writing. Who cares if thinks is written
on the 109 th page of
>the 216 book
instead of thing or if anyone still reads his writing.
>The whole
point behind his genius is what he had to say.
And its not just
>about smoking
'tea' and taking benzidrine or drinking himself to death.
>How can you
read Big Sur and not imagine yourself on that beach or making
>that damn in the
stream for the water or sitting in a chair with just utter
>contempt for
all the shit in the society that has gone so wrong. Or read
>Dharma Bums
and see that the is spelled teh instead of being on top of the
>mountain and
then running down it or taking to some crazy guy or imagining
>just being
for one day with someone like Japhy Ryder someone who actually
>has still got
a little bit of energy and enthusiam for this life instead of
>a plentitude
of boredom.
>
>Whats the big
deal about Joyce anyway. Who wants to
write a book that is
>utterly
incomprehensible. And if you are
complaining that Kerouac is un
>understandable
i suggest you try to read Joyce (who himself is just mimicking
>the irish or
scottish dialect in my opinion).
>
>Why even read
anything if all you are doing is looking for errors. I just
>read GO and
it has over ten errors itself I am sure because I ACTUALLY DID
>READ IT, but
I dont care because it actually moved me the passage about
>STROFSKY
(Ginsberg) and his visions to utter distress.
>
>Ah hell its
all just a bunch of shit anyway, why do you care?
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of BEAT-L
Digest - 15 Sep 1995 to 16 Sep 1995
>*************************************************
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:12:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Terry Kattleman
<Tkattleman@EWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.berkeley.edu
Re JC Holmes, Go
and others of his worth reading: I found
Go, while
essential Beat
reading, obviously, quite tedious toward the end. The
characters,
without exception, were annoying the hell out of me. Maybe they
were supposed to,
they lived in annoying times, but, for me, compelling
fiction this did
not make. Holmes' The Horn, on the other
hand, a
fictionalized
last day in the life of Lester Young, was magnificent,
brilliant. Brings
Go to a dead stop in comparison, as far as I'm concerned.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:45:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Rhythm
As I said earlier
I still believe the most important part to Kerouac's
writing is in
what he was trying to say, but I am not him.
And so my
interpretation
does not matter, but rather his own interpretation as he
stated to Malcolm
Cowley, the man who helped get Road published, and I
quote:
"I see now
the whole Cathedral of Form which this is, and am so glad that I
self-taught
myself (with some help from Messrs. Joyce & Faulkner) to write
SPONTANEOUS PROSE
so that though the eventual LEGEND will run into millions
of words, they'll
all be spontaneous and therefore pure and therefore
interesting and
at the same time what rejoices me most:
RHYTHMIC--It's
prose answering
the requirements mentioned by W.C. Williams, for natural
speech rhytmns
and words--I'm not doing a pitch for [myself], [I don't]
need it anymore,
[I] am walking around in ecstasy because [my] entire
life-work is
beginning to shape up and [I] know that all of it (tho eventually
it will languish
among the ruins) is holy and was a well done thing."
In his typical
nature he had to use third person as not to appear vain, yeah
right, and so I
changed the tenses. Either way I think
it is extremely clear
his opinion.
And as to the
theory behind SUBTERRANEANS being all about rhythm I have another
letter that he
wrote explaining that work:
"I only want
to stress, however, that in making those "minor changes
throughout"
we do not dare touch the rhythm of that prose and those
sentences; I
assume they want to remove objectionable words, I will replace
them with words
of similar sonic rhytmn"
Kerouac's Letter to Sterling Lord
Dated
Sunday Oct. 7, 1956
by the way both
these quotes are from ANN CHARTERS book __JACK KEROUAC:
SELECTED
LETTERS__ and after having finished it I
would suggest it to
anyone who wants
to know about Kerouac in depth, before his success.
Nick Herren
nph002@acad.drake.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:16:49 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Typing
Did anyone watch
the season premiere of "Silk Stalkings?" They quoted
Truman Capote's
infamous quip "That's not writing, it's typing." They
thought, however,
that it referred to Clifford Irving rather than
Kerouac. Now what ever gave them that idea? I also came upon a note in
a forthcoming
book on the Beat Generation that quoted Samuel Beckett on
the Burroughs'
cut-up method: "That's not writing,
it's plumbing."
Notes weren't
included in my galleys. Does anyone know
where this
Beckett quote
comes from?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:38:50 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Ginsberg Kerouac Dreams
The current Whole
Earth Review printed two dreams of Allen Ginsberg about
Jack
Kerouac. They are interesting to read.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:12:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: the Literary Denim <vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Holmes, Anything Worth Reading
Continuing posts, which go something like this:
> By the way,
has J.C.Holmes written anything that might be worth reading,
besides GO?
> Michael Heeg
>>The Horn,
on the other hand, a fictionalized last day in the life of
Lester Young, was
magnificent,
>>brilliant.
Brings Go to a dead stop in comparison, as far as I'm concerned.
>> Terry Kattleman
_____________________________________
Holmes is,
arguably, an overlooked and better essayist than novelist.
_GO_ was perhaps
one of those collision of events, published at the right
time, among the
right collection of friends. Had
literary history not
washed the way it
did gracias JK and AG, GO may not have come forward.
As an essayist
Holmes can, like Krim, scour private
sentiment and
experience, then
lace the narrative with proportioned sprinklings of cosmic
and historical
detail to generalize as a condition of
the times whatever in
personal
circumstance he happens to be pondering.
Don't know if
because his essays came (most of
them) much later than _GO_,
for example, when
he was older, more experienced, or whether he actually
found the essay a
more comfortable form, but his essays seem less often
strained, better
developed. He can be as rhythmic as K.
Try _Nothing More
to Declare_ (Deutsch, 1968) or _Gone in October_
(Limberlost,
1985). His journal excepts read well,
too (if you can find
them). Darn good diarist.
\\|//
(o o)
-----------------------
--------------oOO--(
)--OOo--------------------------------------
vj@primenet.com | Accept loss forever.
Tempe, AZ |
|
Jack Kerouac
-------------------------------------ooooO---Ooooo-------------------------
-------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:19:28 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re Whole Earth and Dreams
>Tim, can you
send me the date and page numbers so I get a copy on interlibrary
>loan?
It is the current
Whole Earth Review at the newstands now.
The dreams are
short and cover less than one page of the magazine.
I read them in
the store.
Maybe someone who
subscribes or bought a copy can provide the date and
page numbers.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:43:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
words shmurds is beauty....love
!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:39:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Big Sur
amen! a typo is a
typo ...get past your pettiness and try to fathom the work
instead of a
superficial printing error.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:19:30 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Help please
In-Reply-To: <01HVB4T79FIE0052OU@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Please send me
the correct address to inform this list of a change of
address. Iwish to
remain subscribed to this list.
MANY THANKS
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:44:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Holmes, Anything Worth Reading
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:12:49 -0700
from <vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Both The Horn and
Get Home Free are strong novels, more interesting than
go. Holmes essays, published in a 3 volume set by
the University of
Arkansas, are
first rate. His poems aren't bad
either. I wonder if
part of the
reason Holmes is less known or less read is that he hasn't
had the
flamboyant lives led by Kerouac, Burroughs, Ginsberg & Cassady.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:37:50 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Help please
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:19:30 +0100
from
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:17:12 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Big Sur
I liked Holmes'
novel THE HORN.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:21:03 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Big Sur
"The woods
are full of wardens."
--JK, "The
Vanishing American Hobo"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:18:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "P.G. Springer"
<hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>
Comments: To:
"P.G. Springer" <hloosn8@firefly.prairienet.org>
In-Reply-To: <61373.311952076@RedwoodFN.org>
I'm interested in
a discography of The Fugs.
Wasn't there a
later album entitled "It Just Crawled Into My Hand, Honest"?
Your help
appreciated.
Note new Tricycle
magazine has interview with Ginsberg and an article,
Buddhism and the
Beats.
p gregory springer
throw the cow
over the fence some hay
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:18:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Tracey L. Milton"
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject: unabomber manifesto
Most decidedly
not beat, but an EXTREMELY interesting
read. Printed in
its entirety (33,000 words, I'm only about
a tenth of the
way thru!) at:
http://pathfinder.com
enjoy
Tracey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:04:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
If Jack Kerouac
were alive, do you think he'd watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
think he'd rail
against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
I hope this
sparks something interesting!!
Laur
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:06:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
>If Jack
Kerouac were alive, do you think he'd watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
>think he'd
rail against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
>
>I hope this
sparks something interesting!!
>
>Laur
I don't know what
he would watch, but whatever he watched I don't think he
would pay much
notice. For example he watched TV when
he was alive. I
have heard that
he was watching the Galloping Gourmet when he had his fatal
hemorrage.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:05:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
In-Reply-To: <950921220436_25947123@emout06.mail.aol.com>
from "Laurie Syrek"
at Sep 21, 95 10:04:38 pm
>
> If Jack
Kerouac were alive, do you think he'd watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
> think he'd
rail against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
>
> I hope this
sparks something interesting!!
christ...where
did this come from.... i just spent the worst train ride
of my life
sitting in a corner, cringing with pain...trying desperately
to read _the
dharma bums_ but all i could hear was the incessant inanity
of a plastic
woman across the aisle... she was beaming over her thursday
night television
escapades... he lips never stopped moving... her voice
dominated every
available space in that tuna can... i was beginning to
rant in my
mind... please stop...please stop...
i stared at the
tracks and thought of my geometry teacher...
"in
euclidean geometry, parallel lines never intersect...but change this
statement... make
it a postulate that parellel lines do intersect and you
no longer have
euclidean geometry.."
i thought... a
new perspective... a new reality... see the train tracks...
what if they
converged? who would be able to survive
the change?
uuuugh. it's over..it's gone.. please stop.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:12:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren <NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 22 Sep 1995
09:05:26 -0500"
<199509221305.JAA25988@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
>
> If Jack Kerouac were alive, do you think he'd
watch Seinfeld or Friends? I
> think he'd
rail against both, but fantasize about Courtney Cox.
>
If Jack were alive he would be DRUNK or
STONED or HIGH and wouldnt care
one bit about
Seinfeld or friends, but if he saw Courtney Cox in a bar or
a whorehouse or
one of HIS friends illustrious parties, I am sure he would
eye her down and
somehow have some fun.
>christ...where
did this come from.... i just spent the worst train ride
How could the train ride be so boring, were
you not in the Hobo Section.
By the way if you
just read __Dharma Bums__ and are wondering maybe who
Japhy Ryder
really is, his name is GARY SNYDER and he did publish a book
of Han Shan
poems.
As for the
Euclian Geometry I feel sorry for you having to learn that kind
of high level
math so you could torture yourself on trains.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:32:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
In-Reply-To: <01HVKIWGZ5TQ00AH7D@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
from "Nicholas Herren" at Sep
22, 95 08:12:43 am
> Japhy Ryder
really is, his name is GARY SNYDER and he did publish a book
> of Han Shan
poems.
thank you.
> As for the
Euclian Geometry I feel sorry for you having to learn that kind
> of high
level math so you could torture yourself on trains.
then you did not
understand...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:34:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "David J. Tucker"
<DJTUCKE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>
Organization:
Accu-Sort Systems, inc.
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
,or to be on a
train with dreams of Moloch!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:41:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Dream film
Last night I was
watching _Rebel Without a Cause_ and was imagining a movie
with Sal Mineo as
the young Allen Ginsberg during the Columbia U days . I
could somewhat
see James Dean as Kerouac, not at all as Cassady, but could
best imagine him
playing Lucien Carr--described by G. as
being young,
innocent but with
"a daemonic fury..."
As my fertile but
pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
thinking that the
Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie. Besides the
incident itself,
which I thought was pretty good on its own, there is the
whole
contellation of young soon-to-be Beat
icons, in their
earliest days together, heavily involved but not the focal
point. This could
keep the film from descending into an exercise in hero
worship.
Just a thought,
Jules
PS--how about Jim
Carrey as Cassady? :)!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Heeg
<mheeg@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
What is it with you comparing everything
to movies and T.V. shows? In
most cases I believe that the written word
is much stronger and more
meaningful than the spoken word in films
or T.V.. Television numbs the
mind,
throw your television out the window. JK was not into T.V., one
of his books I can't remember which, he describes walking the night
in a suburban neighborhood, seeing nothing
but the same blue light
radiating from every home. He couldn't beleive that everyone was
living this life in front of a
television, when you could be out
experiencing life. That's what I believe his books are about
living
life, experiencing everything. It's just really disappointing with
all of these comparisions to movies and
ridiculous T.V. shows, and
unfortunately I did see the show Friends
and it was HORRIBLE!!! Won't
make the same mistake.
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Dream
film
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 9/22/95 9:53 AM
Last night I was
watching _Rebel Without a Cause_ and was imagining a movie
with Sal Mineo as
the young Allen Ginsberg during the Columbia U days . I
could somewhat
see James Dean as Kerouac, not at all as Cassady, but could
best imagine him
playing Lucien Carr--described by G. as
being young,
innocent but with
"a daemonic fury..."
As my fertile but
pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
thinking that the
Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie. Besides the
incident itself,
which I thought was pretty good on its own, there is the
whole
contellation of young soon-to-be Beat
icons, in their
earliest days together, heavily involved but not the focal
point. This could
keep the film from descending into an exercise in hero
worship.
Just a thought,
Jules
PS--how about Jim
Carrey as Cassady? :)!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:42:36 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>As my fertile
but pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
>thinking that
the Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie.
There was a book
written about this incident by Burroughs and Kerouac
called And the
Hippos were Boiled in Their Tanks.
In the letters by
kerouac recently published he mentioned the Hippos book
and said it was
in a trunk at his Mother's house. So
presumably this
manuscript still
exists. Does anyone know for sure about
this?
I would think
that with all the beat interest these days that a book
co-authored by
Burroughs and Kerouac would be greedily lusted after by
publishers. Does anyone have actual information on this
subject?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:26:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Martin Taylor
<mtaylor@GPU.SRV.UALBERTA.CA>
Subject: Self-inflicted Geometry
In-Reply-To:
<199509221332.JAA26626@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
On Fri, 22 Sep
1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> > Japhy
Ryder really is, his name is GARY SNYDER and he did publish a book
> > of Han
Shan poems.
>
> thank you.
>
> > As for
the Euclian Geometry I feel sorry for you having to learn that kind
> > of high
level math so you could torture yourself on trains.
>
>
> then you did
not understand...
I think Nicholas
understood perfectly. Think of it as a
koan... truth can
be _so_ funny.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:04:47 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:41:27 -0400
from <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
On Fri, 22 Sep
1995 09:41:27 -0400 Julie Hulvey said:
>Last night I
was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was imagining a movie
>with Sal
Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg during the Columbia U days . I
>could
somewhat see James Dean as Kerouac, not at all as Cassady, but could
>best imagine
him playing Lucien Carr--described by G.
as being young,
>innocent but
with "a daemonic fury..."
>As my fertile
but pecuniously useless mind toyed with this idea, I started
>thinking that
the Carr-Kammerer story might make a great movie. Besides the
>incident
itself, which I thought was pretty good on its own, there is the
>whole
contellation of young soon-to-be Beat
>icons, in
their earliest days together, heavily involved but not the focal
>point. This
could keep the film from descending into an exercise in hero
>worship.
>
>Just a
thought,
>
>Jules
>PS--how about
Jim Carrey as Cassady? :)!
It would
certainly make a sensational movie, one that I'm sure Lucien
Carr wouldnot be
very happy about. Have you read Aaron
Latham's article
in New York
Magazine about the murder? If anyone
needs the citation,
I'd be glad to
look it up. I wonder whatever happened to Latham's
biography of
Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:37:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Self-inflicted Geometry
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.950922102244.117721A-100000@gpu2.srv.ualberta.ca>
from "Martin Taylor" at
Sep 22, 95 10:26:47 am
> I think
Nicholas understood perfectly. Think of
it as a koan... truth can
> be _so_
funny.
>
i did not intend
for the geometry to be thought of as torture...it was my
escape from the
mindless crap that the cathode ray tube inspires...
i did not express
myself clearly..i tend to do that... i was thinking
back to a time
when i first began to see things in a different light...
i was not going
to bother to explain myself... this used to be a warm place..
now...i'll let it
go.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:36:10 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Dream film
Yeah, Ann
Charters says she has read the manuscript and it's terrible.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:55:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>Last night I
was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was >imagining a
movie with Sal
Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg >during the Columbia U days
.
I forgot to write
that the young Dennis Hopper as he appeared in _RWAC_would
have made a great
Cassady, at least physically.
Couldn't tell if
he could have acted Cassady, though......
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:36:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Heeg <mheeg@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Dream film
There you go again, why the need to to
make these ridiculous
comparisions? Please, let me know, maybe I will understand
what you
are trying to do/accomplish, and will not
become irritated by these
comparisions.
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re:
Dream film
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 9/22/95 3:09 PM
>Last night I
was watching _Rebel Without a
Cause_ and was >imagining a
movie with Sal
Mineo as the young Allen Ginsberg >during the Columbia U days
.
I forgot to write
that the young Dennis Hopper as he appeared in _RWAC_would
have made a great
Cassady, at least physically.
Couldn't tell if
he could have acted Cassady, though......
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:23:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: tv
Michael Heeg and
others:
In _The Dharma
Bums_, Kerouac does have Ray Smith, his narrator, does
complain about
the suburban life "and inside the little blue square of the
television, each
living family riveting its attention on probably one show;
nobody
talking" (104), echoing his earlier comment about "television sets
in each living
room with everybody looking at the same thing and thinking
the same thing at
the same time" (39). He also imagines, "The only alternative
to sleeping out,
hopping freights, and doing what I wanted, I saw in a
vision would be
to just sit with a hundred other patients in front of a
nice television
set in a madhouse, where we could be 'supervised'"(121).
However, one of
the most charming aspects of Kerouac's narrators is their
very human and
real inconsistency. So, Ray finds himself back in Rocky Mount
on Christmas Eve,
"which I spent with a bottle of wine before the TV
enjoying the
shows" (135). We can get an idea of what kind of shows he
was watching when
he describes "a great big young cop with a gun swinging
in a holster on
his hip, all done up like on TV the Sheriff of Cochise
and Wyatt
Earp"(159). Ray also says, "Only one thing I'll say for the
people watching
television, the millions and millions of the One Eye:
they're not
hurting anyone while they're sitting in front of that Eye"
(104). I suppose
we all have our guilty pleasures, and Jack's narrators
are always prone
to admit theirs.
Good weekends.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:29:47 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream Movie
>Yeah, Ann
Charters says she has read the manuscript and it's terrible.
Good for
her. Unfortunately we are not in such a
position to read it and make
our own
judgements. No matter how bad it is I
know many people would love
to be able to
read it. And I think the publisher would
make good money.
I am glad to know
that the manuscript exists.
Anyone know what
the surviving author (Burroughs) has to say about this
book? Would he not want it published?
Also I guess
Lucien Carr is alive still (right?). He
might not appreciate it.
This might be the
biggest stumbling block for it to be published.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:50:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To:
<950922145535_106134432@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Julie
Hulvey"
at Sep 22, 95 02:55:36 pm
> I forgot to
write that the young Dennis Hopper as he appeared in _RWAC_would
> have made a
great Cassady, at least physically.
> Couldn't
tell if he could have acted Cassady, though......
No way, much too
surly. Remember, Neal was known for his
friendliness
and charm. Does that describe Dennis Hopper?
I do like the
idea of Sal Mineo as a young Allen. But
to me the all-time
dream cast for
either Sal Paradise/Dean Moriarty or Jack/Neal is
Montgomery
Clift/Paul Newman.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:55:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fugs Discography
Comments: cc:
RHulvey@aol.com
P. Gregory
Springer asked in a recent post:
>I'm
interested in a discography of The Fugs.
I can provide
some information. [By the way, I am
posting this
under my wife's name because she is
the subscriber to
the Beat List. I read the list and
have posted once
before, but usually I lurk.]
The following
discography mostly comes from various
published
sources. In doing so, I am perpetuating
their errors
(since they often contradict themselves).
Someday I'll be
able to give the definitive (I hope)
discography, as I
am working on a major Ed Sanders
bibliography/discography/videography/etc.-ography.
But meanwhile,
and for what it's worth, I banged this
together.
The cd re-issues,
Songs in Ancient Greek, and
Best of Ed
Sanders I purchased directly from Ed.
Presumably, they
are still available from: Ed Sanders,
Box 729,
Woodstock, NY 12498.
If anyone can
offer comments, corrections or additions, I would
be extremely
grateful. Please email such directly to me at
RHulvey@aol.com [as well as to the List, if you think it's
appropriate].
Thanks.
Ross Hulvey
=================
THE FUGS:
The Village Fugs
(Broadside [Folkways] Records, 1965)
First Fugs Album
[re-issue (I think) of above, often
thought
to be THE first Fugs album]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1018, 1965)
The Fugs First
Album
[re-issue of above, with additional
tracks]
(cd, Fugs Records, 1993)
The Fugs
[liner notes by Allen Ginsberg]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1028)
The Fugs Second
Album
[re-issue of above, with additional
tracks]
(cd, Fugs Records, 1993)
The ESP Sampler
[Fugs, et al]
(lp, ESP Records, nd)
Tenderness
Junction
(lp, Reprise Records, 1968)
Virgin Fugs
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1038, 1968)
It Crawled Into
My Hand, Honest
(lp, Reprise Records, 1969)
The Belle of
Avenue A
(lp, Reprise Records, RS6359, 1969)
Golden Filth
(lp, Reprise Records, 1970)
Fugs 4, Rounders
Score
[Fugs and Holy Modal Rounders]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-2018, 1975)
Proto-Punk
(lp, PVC Records, 1983)
Refuse to be
Burnt-Out
(lp, Olufsen Records, 1984)
Star Peace
(2 lps, New Rose Records, 1987)
Fugs Live in
Woodstock
(cd, Musik/Musik, 1989)
Real Woodstock
Festival
[should be released by now, but
haven't seen it yet]
(2 cds, Ace Records, 1995)
ED SANDERS:
Sanders'
Truckstop
(lp, Reprise Records)
Beer Cans on the
Moon
(lp, Reprise Records)
Songs in Ancient
Greek
(cd, Olufsen Records, 1989)
The Best of Ed
Sanders
(cass., Ed Sanders, 1992)
TULI KUPFERBERG:
No Deposit, No
Return
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1035)
(cd, re-issue [not confirmed])
Rutles Highway
Revisited
[Tuli does "Living in Hope."
Also,
tracks by Peter Stampfel, et al]
(cd, Shimmy Disc)
PETER STAMPFEL /
HOLY MODAL ROUNDERS
[I have an
incomplete discography on Peter, also.
But I think it's too peripheral for the Beat
List,
although he's intimately connected to the
Fugs.]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:55:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
On 9/21, Michael Heeg wrote
>What is it
with you comparing everything to movies and T.V. shows?
I suppose you
mean the plural "you", since I didn't make the
"Seinfeld
vs. Friends" post. In fact I've seen neither show; ever since "Twin
Peaks" went
off I haven't seen too much TV. I do like movies and feel they
are a valid art
form which also interested Our Heroes -- ever heard of "Pull
my
Daisy?":).
I feel you reacted
a bit violently to my lighthearted post. But what if I
*had* compared?
It could be said that _Rebel without a Cause_, whether or not
high art, came
out of the same post WWII dissatisfaction that spawned the
Beats.
> In most
cases I believe that the written word is much stronger and > more
meaningful than
the spoken word in films or T.V.
Truisms numb the
mind, throw out yr. truisms. JK was not into truisms.
>Television
numbs the mind, throw your television out the window.
> JK was not
into T.V.
I'm not sure
about that. Not only did he appear on it, I remember reading
that toward the
end he spent a lot of time in front of the TV (although with
the sound turned
off). Sad image. I thought it was part of the legend, and
that the Seinfeld/Friends
post was a joke about that. So it didn't annoy me.
Besides, K liked
to numb his mind, just not with TV.
>He couldn't
beleive that everyone was living this life in front of a
>television, when you could be out experiencing life.
How about in
front of a computer?
> It's just
really disappointing with all of these comparisions to >movies
and ridiculous
T.V. shows
Sorry
>and
unfortunately I did see the show Friends
He admits it! But
go on, how was it?
>and it was
HORRIBLE!!! Won't make the same mistake.
Good. Abandon all
hope of being given what you need by the consensus culture.
You will then be
"beat".
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:57:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Self-inflicted Geometry and Mediocre
Television!!!
Well, the cathode
ray tube might be filled with middle-class stereotypes and
superficial,
commercialized messages, but surely one cannot say that
television hasn't
a redeeming quality? Has anyone ever read anything by Alan
Olsen or Chris and
Debra Parr? They're out of BU, and they did some
interesting stuff
with television and modes of communication. I think it's
all too easy to
dismiss tv as crass and mediocre. Granted, Seinfeld and
Friends may not
be intellectually stimulating, but they serve as a good
example of how
the youth culture has invaded the mainstream (Do I see a Dobie
Gillis
connection?). It shows us where the higher-ups at the network place
the intelligence
of the average viewer. Plus, it gives me something to watch
while I'm
cleaning my living room. What more can I ask?
Don't answer that
last question.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:25:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bonnie Howard
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
Levi Asher wrote:
=I do like the
idea of Sal Mineo as a young Allen. But
to me the all-time
=dream cast for
either Sal Paradise/Dean Moriarty or Jack/Neal is
=Montgomery
Clift/Paul Newman.
Sounds decent. I
take it, then, you are not too thrilled with the casting of
Brad Pitt and
Sean Penn in Coppola's upcoming film version of On the Road?
I am new to this
list, so forgive me if y'all have already discussed Coppola's
movie, but I am
curious what you all think about it. I know it's not even in
the can yet, but
what are/were your thoughts?
Cheers,
Bonnie Howard
howardb@sonoma.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:49:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bonnie Howard
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Appraisers? Help...
Hi. I am in a
bind here, and need some help, and thought of you folks. I have
come into
possession of a large amount of papers, manuscripts, chapbooks,
poems, letters,
and books (some signed first ed.'s) from the Beat era, and have
to have the whole
shebang catalogued and appraised. I live in Northern
California, and
Beat writers are not my specialty, so I'm a bit overwhelmed.
If anyone knows
of someone who can help me with this massive project, I would
be so grateful.
If you know someone or want more info, please e-mail me
privately
at: howardb@sonoma.edu
Forgive me for
cluttering up your list with a personal request, but I'm about
ready to throw up
my hands and start screaming :-)
Oh--some of the
things that have fallen into my lap are works by: Michael
McClure, Richard
Brautigan, Allen Ginsburg, Lew Welch, Philip Whalen, Gary
Snyder, Ron
Lowensohn, etc. If this is *your* area of expertise, please let me
know, thanks.
Cheers,
Bonnie Lee Howard
howardb@sonoma.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:44:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95092212323662@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from "Bill Gargan" at Sep
22, 95 12:04:47 pm
Bill Gargan
writes:
> It would
certainly make a sensational movie, one that I'm sure Lucien
> Carr
wouldnot be very happy about. Have you
read Aaron Latham's article
> in New York
Magazine about the murder? If anyone
needs the citation,
> I'd be glad
to look it up. I wonder whatever happened to Latham's
> biography of
Kerouac.
Bill, if it's not
too much trouble, I would be interested in the
citation. Thanks.
Tony
atrigili@lynx.neu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:21:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>No way, much
too surly. Remember, Neal was known for
his >friendliness and
charm. Does that describe Dennis Hopper?
Mmm....I'd have
to admit it doesn't. Although my husband thinks Hopper not
charmless (though
not harmless).
Earlier today,
when I was looking something else up in "Jack's Book" by Barry
Gifford I came
upon a sad passage where Ginsberg visits Neal not too long
before he dies,
and notices that "for the very first time", Neal is neither
friendly or
charming. Remarkable in such a long relationship.
I've been
commissioned to do a portrait of Clift and have been seeing his
movies all for
the first time. He would have made a beautiful Kerouac.
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 18:20:39 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Bowden <tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To:
<199509231544.LAA07568@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Somewhere you
write:
> Bill Gargan
writes:
>> I wonder
whatever happened to Latham's
>>
biography of Kerouac.
Good
question. I remember he was working on
the latter stages of it in
1972, during the
summer. He was visiting in Saratoga and
interviewing
Carolyn Cassady
in Monte Sereno. The immediate
disruption was with the
Charters biog,
which beat him to press. I suspect
Straight Arrow may've
rushed _Kerouac_
a bit; I remember the early reviews
weren't favorable.
But I was waiting
for the Latham version, because I had just read
_Crazy Sundays_
and was looking forward to the same sort of sensible
mosaic wrought
out of vivid detail. I hope it someday
becomes
available in some
form.
--
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 12:11:56 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: john reeves
<reeves@ODYSSEY.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>
>
>Sounds
decent. I take it, then, you are not too thrilled with the casting of
>Brad Pitt and
Sean Penn in Coppola's upcoming film version of On the Road?
>
>I am new to
this list, so forgive me if y'all have already discussed Coppola's
>movie, but I
am curious what you all think about it. I know it's not even in
>the can yet,
but what are/were your thoughts?
Well I for one
would be interested in seeing it when it arrives...at first
glance the
casting sounds a little dubious but then i recall Kirk Douglas &
Anthony Quimm
playing Van Gogh & Gaugin so i guess Francis could pull it off.
The major thing
would be to actually capture the spirit of the
story...remembering
that the events occured in the late forties early
fifties...before
there was a fully functional myth/media culture to didtort
the endeavours of
these fellows..
>
>Cheers,
>Bonnie Howard
>howardb@sonoma.edu
>
>
john reeves voice--61 7 38445907
HANGDOG PRODUCTIONS <?>
reeves@odyssey.com.au
http://www.odyssey.com.au/eyephon/reevhtml/reevhome.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 23:22:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Joshua S. Miller"
<DrBenwaye@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 15 Sep 1995 to 16 Sep
1995
While on the
subject of typos...it's improvs' , not impros.
@>~~~~
:)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 16:20:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Richard Centing
<rcenting@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Holmes, Anything Worth Reading
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:44:32
-0400 (EDT)
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:21:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
just
curious....what did you guys think of the actors in cronenberg's 'naked
lunch'?.....rene
........(box
office draw versus?)...........how 'bout leonardo di caprio as
lucien? he
already played jim carroll in 'basketball diaries'...anyone see
that or read the
book?....i know, i know...sunday ramble......go
then.....rene
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:31:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Friends and Cox
courtney cox
huh...in 'memory babe' it was said that kerouac only '...liked
to make a girl
whom his friend (hal chase), had made first.'......also (same
page), 'For years
he had washed his own handkerchiefs so that his mother
wouldn't find
evidence of his masturbation. . . .'..............regards
....rene
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 23:55:37 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "FringeWare Daily (by way of
reeves@odyssey.com.au john reeves)"
<email@FRINGEWARE.COM>
Subject: YUCKS - The Author Collar
Comments: To:
Bonnie Howard <HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Sent from:
jim@SmallWorks.COM (Jim Thompson)
------- Start of
forwarded message -------
>Forwarded-by:
Mike Olson <mao@illustra.com>
>Forwarded-by:
Michael Ubell <michael>
>From:
MMGORMAN@com.informix.com
August 12, 1995
-- Scottsdale, AZ -- The Coriolis Group today announced
a major
technology break through for the dissertation, publishing and
software
industries called the Author Collar. This device, created by
Coriolis'
Managing Editor, Ron Pronk, provides an innovative system to
track and manage
projects being developed by authors, PhD dissertation
writers, software
developers, and other freelance staff who are critical
to the success of
publishing-related projects.
The Author Collar
is designed to be worn around the neck of an author and
connects to a
personal computer using a standard SCSI port. With custom
software
developed by the Coriolis Group, the Author Collar can be
connected to the
Internet using a standard SLIP or PPP connection. Once
connected, a
product manager/thesis advisor can monitor the productivity
of an author. If
the author gets behind on an important project, the
manager/advisor
can send an email message and 'zap' the author a
low-voltage
electronic shock to keep him or her on schedule. This is the
first time a
technology like this has been developed to be used over the
Internet.
"We've been
testing the Collar on some of our authors/dissertation writers
for the past few
months and it has helped to increase writing productivity
over 72%,"
stated Pronk. "I especially like the Collar because I can get
instant results.
Instead of waiting days or perhaps weeks for a delinquent
author/dissertation
writer to get back to me, I can send a message across
the Internet,
'zap' the author to get his or her immediate attention, and
get a phone
call/Email back in no time at all. With the use of this
innovative
technology, I can manage many more projects than I was able to
in the
past."
"We've had
especially gratifying results from disseration writers with
small children.
We've installed the device on the children. The
productivity
improvements are close to 100%. It is especially important
to know when to
zap the little tikes. Early hours of the
AM, say 2 or 3
are not
productive. The children only wake their parents and that slows
productivity. During the day is not too good either because
the kids are
out to play or at
baby sitters. The real good time is in the early evening
when the kids are
taking a bath. The zap is especially enhanced..."
"The only
real surprise has been with authors who have teen-age children.
When the device
is connected to the teen-agers, productivity decreases.
Seems the parents
look forward to the zapping event."
"A few
authors were reluctant to participate at first," Pronk admitted,
"but after
they overcame their initial hesitation, they've actually come
to like it. An
interesting thing happens. Authors no
longer go through
the day with that
nagging stressed-out feeling that comes from ducking my
phone calls. Instead, I give them a mild 'zap,' which
essentially tells
them, 'hey, let's
pick up the pace, here.' It actually removes some of
their guilt
feelings about being late, and at the same time encourages
them to deliver
material more quickly. So it's a win-win situation for
everybody
involved."
"We've
invested heavily in this technology to give our company a
competitive edge
over other publishing companies in our market," stated
Coriolis
Publisher and CEO Keith Weiskamp.
"With the Author Collar, any
of our authors
can easily crank out a 1,000+ page book in 21 days or less.
In terms of
productivity savings, Author Collar may turn out to be one of
the most useful
tools developed using the dynamic power of the Internet."
The Author Collar
can be used for a wide range of industries and
applications. The
Collar requires an IBM compatible PC or Macintosh with
a SCSI port. In addition,
a willing participant is required as well as a
PPP or SLIP
Internet connection. Pricing for the
Author Collar has not
been determined.
A deluxe version of the Collar is under development that
would allow
managers to assign unique "hot keys" for activating multiple
Collars, directly
from the keyboard.
--
Jim Thompson jim@SmallWorks.COM
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:08:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Susan V. Pulley"
<SVPULLE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>
Organization:
Accu-Sort Systems, inc.
Subject: Re: YUCKS - The Author Collar
The Author Collar
sounds like someone's attempt to imitate Jonathan
Swift satirical
(yet realistic) solution to too many babies being born in
Irland (I
apologise that the name of the essay escapes me)......Old
age is such a
pain in the --- well, you know what I mean.
It's a joy to
communicate
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 07:33:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Shot in the Dark (fwd)
Somebody asked me
this question -- does anyone know who this is?
> There is a
writer associated with the beat generated who
> had a polish
last name...
> His work was
rather autobiographical (rather transparently)
> He wrote
about guys who did beat things... lost jobs, used excessive
> amounts of
drugs, etc.
> He was a
boxer... he worked as a janitor... he bet on horse races
> with some
foreign kid... he had a cardboard suitcase...
> Do you know
him?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts just
the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:34:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Heeg <mheeg@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re: Shot in the Dark (fwd)
Charles Bukowski
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Shot in
the Dark (fwd)
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 9/25/95 10:49 AM
Somebody asked me
this question -- does anyone know who this is?
> There is a
writer associated with the beat generated who
> had a polish
last name...
> His work was
rather autobiographical (rather transparently)
> He wrote
about guys who did beat things... lost jobs, used excessive
> amounts of
drugs, etc.
> He was a
boxer... he worked as a janitor... he bet on horse races
> with some
foreign kid... he had a cardboard suitcase...
> Do you know
him?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:48:58 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News
Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Shot in the Dark (fwd)
Bukowski of
course!
----------
From: Levi
Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Shot in
the Dark (fwd)
Date: Monday,
September 25, 1995 7:33AM
Somebody asked me
this question -- does anyone know who this is?
> There is a
writer associated with the beat generated who
> had a polish
last name...
> His work was
rather autobiographical (rather transparently)
> He wrote
about guys who did beat things... lost jobs, used excessive
> amounts of
drugs, etc.
> He was a
boxer... he worked as a janitor... he bet on horse races
> with some
foreign kid... he had a cardboard suitcase...
> Do you know
him?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:00:21 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Latham article
Since I've had a
request for the Latham citation: Latham,
Aaron. "The Columbi
a Murder That
Gave Birth To The Beats." New York
Magazine, April 19, 1976, pp.
41-53.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:35:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Shot in the Dark (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<9509251655.AA05368@netmail2.microsoft.com> from "Bruce
Greeley"
at Sep 25, 95 08:48:58 am
>
> Bukowski of
course!
> Somebody
asked me this question -- does anyone know who this is?
>
> > There
is a writer associated with the beat generated who
> > had a
polish last name...
> > His
work was rather autobiographical (rather transparently)
> > He
wrote about guys who did beat things... lost jobs, used excessive
> > amounts
of drugs, etc.
> > He was
a boxer... he worked as a janitor... he bet on horse races
> > with
some foreign kid... he had a cardboard suitcase...
> > Do you
know him?
>
Wow -- talk about
missing the forest for the trees. I had set my
radar for a real
obscure name, and skipped right past this obvious
answer. Thanks!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:17:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Shot in the Dark (fwd)
BUKOWSKI!!!!!!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:24:00 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Matt Owen <mowen@RAMBO.SC.WHECN.EDU>
Subject: New Member Introduction
Matt Owen
Sheridan College
Sheridan, Wyoming
82801
Email: mowen@rambo.sc.whecn.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:36:24 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: ON THE ROAD "messages to
Garcia" passage
Hi Folks,
Last night I was
reading ON THE ROAD and came across this passage, on page
164 of the Signet
paperback edition: " -- and then he came to the end of his
song, and for
this there had to be elaborate preparations, during which time
you could send
all the messages to Garcia around the world twelve times and
what difference
did it make to anybody?"
So whaddaya
think? Is this some kind of prophetic passage illustrating
Ginsberg's notion
that Kerouac was Universal Mind while writing? Or is there
a more mundane
explanation? Perhaps "messages to Garcia" was a line in some
popular song of
the day? I don't know. If one of you does, please clue me in.
Thanks,
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:58:44 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Ginsberg on Rock & Roll (PBS)
In-Reply-To: <3590844382.31204491@RedwoodFN.org>
Anyone been
watching "Rock & Roll" on PBS in the last couple of days?
Ginsberg has been
talking a lot...mainly about Bob Dylan and the Beatles.
There were also
shots of the Kerouac funeral.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:55:46 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Masculinity, violence, and
night-time-jitters
An update here.
Did beat men beat beat women, etc. On page 101 of ON THE ROAD
(Signet paperback
edition) Sal Paradise says: "My aunt once said the world
would never find
peace until men fell at their women's feet and asked for
forgiveness. But
Dean knew this; he'd mentioned it many times. . . .
" 'The truth of the matter is we
don't understand our women; we blame on
them and it's all
our fault,' I said."
So, more food for thought. ON THE ROAD is
quite interesting in terms of
sex roles and
relationships. Galatea Dunkel is an intriguing character. Check
out the first
four chapters of Part Three in particular.
On this same subject, the Fall '95 issue
of HUNGRY MIND REVIEW (free in
many bookstores)
focuses on Men and Women. It has a number of interesting
essays and
reviews, including one by Leslie Marmon Silko in which she says:
"No beast
more dangerous in the U.S.A. than an unemployed white man." Sexism?
Racism? Hmm,
hummm, hmm ... This issue also includes
writers'
recommendations
of books for young adults. Joyce Carol Oates' recommendations
include ON THE
ROAD, which she says "is told by an older adolescent." Well,
as her New Yorker
review of THE PORTABLE JACK KEROUAC and J.K.: SELECTED
LETTERS shows, she doesn't quite get it. But she is
starting to get a clue.
All for now.
Best,
Dan B.
dan_barth@redwoodfn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:06:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: ON THE ROAD "messages to
Garcia" passage
Dan,
"Message to
Garcia" was an inspirational story current around the end of
the 19th century.
It's only a couple of pages, and in fact is on-line in
one of the electronic
book libraries.
Anyway, the story
is basically this- Garcia is a guerilla leader in Cuba
(I think, or some
othe Spanish-American war place). The American Commander
needs to get a
"Message to Garcia" and a young soldier takes it there
braving surmounting
all kinds of terrible jungle-type trials. This soldier
is an example of
the kind of man "modern business" needs. The moral of the
story is
"just do it", don't be side tracked, etc; or that the man who
wants to succeed
in this capitalist world had better be prepared to
sacrifice all to
do his job (depending on your philosophical bent). In my
opinon, it is not
one of the better pieces of this type so popular at the
time. It does
appear in references frequently and must have been widely
read and
discussed.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:13:31 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Tracey L. Milton"
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg on Rock & Roll (PBS)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.950926115715.11844D-100000@moondog.usask.ca>; from
"Peter Scott" at Sep
26, 95 11:58 am
Oh Man!! I tuned
in too late (9:30) and missed the funeral part.
Did see Ginsberg
talk eloquently about the Beatles tho....
If someone taped
the entire first hour and lives near Boston.....oh well.
TONIGHT they are
doing blues/r&B and the effect of same on the psychedelic
type tunes.
They'll feature zep, the Dead, and the Velvet Underground, I think.
I've already got
*this* taping request taken care of...
I thought what I
saw so far of the series was excellent. Even my swill hard
buddy who was
over was impressed with it :)
Tracey
>
> Anyone been
watching "Rock & Roll" on PBS in the last couple of days?
> Ginsberg has
been talking a lot...mainly about Bob Dylan and the Beatles.
> There were
also shots of the Kerouac funeral.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 15:30:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Patti Smith
Patti Smith is
supposed to on one of those PBS shows. Sounds like tonight
might be it.
Mark H.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 19:28:44 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Jeffrey L. Meikle"
<meikle@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: messages to Garcia
Dan Barth writes:
>Last night I
was reading ON THE ROAD and came across this passage, on page
>164 of the
Signet paperback edition: " -- and then he came to the end of his
>song, and for
this there had to be elaborate preparations, during which time
>you could
send all the messages to Garcia around the world twelve times and
>what
difference did it make to anybody?"
It'd be nice to
think Ol' Jack is synched in to Jerry Garcia and the Dead
but he's really just
betraying his Lowell high school erudition here. "A
Message to
Garcia" was a pro-big-business tract published in 1899 by Elbert
Hubbard, a former
soap salesman who went into the Arts and Crafts business,
founded a retreat
in upstate New York where burned-out executives and their
wives could pay
big bucks to learn hand-printing, bookbinding, carpentry,
metal-working,
and attend uplifting lectures (kind of an early Esalen
Institute without
the redeeming features). An old
professor of mine called
him "the man
with the limp noodle mind," but I never figured out why. A
chain of
giftshops across the country sold rustic nicknacks and the many
little books of
"Fra Elbertus," as he was known.
Ironically, given that he
wore monk's robes
and dallied with the middle ages, Elbertus and his missus
went down when
the Lusitania was torpedoed.
"Message to Garcia" was just
the sort of
uplifting stuff that would have been required reading among the
stuffier English
teachers when Jack was in school. Kind of
like a
reference to
Scott Peck or Robert Fulghum today.
--Jeff Meikle
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 22:21:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Message to Garcia"
Dan Barth writes:
>Last night I
was reading ON THE ROAD and came across this >passage, on
page164 of the
Signet paperback edition: " -- and >then he came to the end of
his song, and for
this there had to >be elaborate preparations, during which
time you could
send >all the messages to Garcia around the world twelve times
and >what
difference did it make to anybody?"
>So whaddaya
think? Is this some kind of prophetic passage >illustrating
Ginsberg's notion
that Kerouac was Universal >Mind while writing? Or is there
a more mundane
explanation? >Perhaps "messages to Garcia" was a line in some
popular song
>of the day? I don't know. If one of you does, please clue me
in.
Well, since you
asked: The reference is to popular
culture, but not to a
line in any song.
"The Message to Garcia" is the title of an essay by Elbert
Hubbard, a
popular inspirational writer of the late-19th century. It was his
rather garbled
account of a covert mission just before the outbreak of the
Spanish-American
War, in which a U.S. army lieutenant stationed in Cuba
carried a message
*from* Cuban revolutionary General Calixto Garcia *to*
then-President
William McKinley. Of course, Hubbard got his facts twisted,
but the essay
established the incident in American popular culture. By the
time Kerouac used
the term, it had become virtually an idiom for any vital
message.
Apparently, the
use of this idiom has now all but faded. Hate to be a
killjoy, but I
doubt there's any hidden prophetic sub-text here - Just good
vernacular
writing.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:16:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Vicente Garcia Pineiro <vgarcia@GOLIAT.UGR.ES>
Subject: Some of the dharma
In the introduction of "Visions of
Cody", allen ginsberg speak about
a book by
kerouac: "Some of the dharma". Was this book published?
Vic
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:34:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: fugs
For Ed Sanders's
recordings, people might also be interested in his
appearances on
John Giorno's Dial-a-Poem Poets records:
"Cemetery
Hill" (recorded 19 July 1965) on _The Dial-a-Poem Poets_ (1972)
"Stand by my
Side, Oh Lord" (rec. 9 May 1973) on _Disconnected_ (1974)
"The
Struggle" (rec. 1 Jan. 1975) on _Biting off the Tongue of a Corpse_ (1975)
"This is the
Age of Investigation Poetry and Every Citizen Must Investigate"
(rec. 1 Jan. 1976) on _Totally Corrupt_
(1976)
"A
Monologue" from The Fugs (rec. 1 June 1968) on _Big Ego_ (1978)
In addition,
_Proto Punk_ (my copy is dated 1982, not 1983), released by
Adelphi Records,
is cited on the album spine as _The Fugs Greatest Hits
Vol. I_, with
remastered tapes and discs and with liner notes (cont. on
insert) by Lester
Bangs. I don't know if subsequent volumes were issued.
Cheers to all the
slum gods and goddesses.
Michael Skau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 21:27:50 +0200
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg on Rock & Roll (PBS)
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95092614234090@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
(milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM)
What's Ginsberg
been saying about Bobby D, the Beatles etc?
I'm out of the
country and can't
possibly see this. Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:47:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire <maguirem@CA.CCH.COM>
Subject: dream film
On Sept. 22,
1995, Levi Asher wrote (re: a young Dennis Hopper in the role
of Dean
Moriarty):
>No way, much
too surly. Remember, Neal was known for his
>friendliness
and charm. Does that describe Dennis Hopper?
Friendliness and
charm? I hope Francis Ford Coppola takes Dean Moriarty
past THIS
sentimental assessment. In _Jack's Book_, John Clellon Holmes
describes Neal
Cassady this way:
"Neal was a
psychopath in the traditional and most rigorous sense of the
term. That is, he
acted out everything that occurred to him."
Casting Brad Pitt
(or perhaps Sean Penn) in this role is perfect. Hasn't
anybody seen
_Kalifornia_? ;-)
And as for Dennis
Hopper's ability to play a frenetic, raving traveller,
his performance
as the freelance photographer in Coppola's _Apocalypse
Now_ was one of
the best portrayals of drug-enhanced mania I've had the
pleasure to see.
I tried
unsuccessfully some months ago to introduce a discussion of the
complexities of
Neal's character -- of his effect on Jack as a writer and
on us as readers.
Perhaps now, instead of focussing on the casting for _On
the Road_, we
could examine how Coppola might approach the story, how
contemporary
American audiences might receive it, etc.
Will it be a
simple road story? And if so, how will audiences react to the
motives (sexual
and otherwise) of our heroes? Will it be about escaping a
hypocritical
Establishment? The Gen-Xers will surely relate.
Will it be a
character study of Dean Moriarty? Last American hero? A
lesson in living
instinctually, for the moment? Jack romanticized this
character; will
Coppola do the same?
Or will this
director repeat the brilliance of _Apocalypse Now_ -- and its
treatment of
Conrad's Kurtz -- by turning a character study of Dean into a
story about the
development of the artist, Sal, so that Sal becomes the
hero? This is
what I hope for, but it would require a _Visions of Cody_
twist.
Any ideas out
there?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:26:46 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: dream film
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 27 Sep 1995
22:47:25 EDT
I think that an
interesting way to approach a filmed version of OTR
would be to also
consider the how and when of its having been written.
As enthralling as
the tale told is the story of Jack pounding away on
the teletype
roll, of Allen carrying the manuscript around, trying to
hawk it to folks
like Carl Solomon, and of Jack's world that followed
Millstein's
review in the NYTimes. End it with that wonderful, telling
scene (I think
this might be told in Desolation Angels... might be wrong
though) of Jack
opening-up that crate of 1st editions, just as Neal
comes into the
room. There was something about Neal's expression that
probably haunted
Jack through many a happy hour.
Whaddya Know,
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 06:29:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: dream film
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9509272201.D18648-0100000@cchtor> from "Mary
Maguire"
at Sep 27, 95 10:47:25 pm
> Friendliness
and charm? I hope Francis Ford Coppola takes Dean Moriarty
> past THIS
sentimental assessment. In _Jack's Book_, John Clellon Holmes
> describes
Neal Cassady this way:
>
> "Neal
was a psychopath in the traditional and most rigorous sense of the
> term. That
is, he acted out everything that occurred to him."
>
> Casting Brad
Pitt (or perhaps Sean Penn) in this role is perfect. Hasn't
> anybody seen
_Kalifornia_? ;-)
I continue to
respectfully disagree. Holmes was not
Neal's friend. I've read
many other
accounts of Neal and the descriptions often remark on his infectious
enthusiasm for
everything around him, and his ability to win people over by
making them feel
good about themselves. I remember, for
instance, Kerouac's
description of
the way Neal might make a person who owned a record album feel
as if a record
album was just the most amazing, wonderful thing in the world
for somebody to
own, and "could we listen to it right now?" This is a
salesman's charm,
perhaps -- but it's not consistent with Dennis Hopper/Brad
Pitt-style
nastiness.
I'm also sick of
the Hollywood psychopath. Kalifornia,
Natural Born Killers,
the standard
bad-guy-vs.-Stallone/Eastwood/Seagall shoot-em-up film -- they
all do the
schtick Dennis Hopper did so well in 'Blue Velvet' (back when it
was
original). 'On The Road' has nothing to
do with this kind of character,
and I would be
very disappointed if the film tried to follow this trend.
Back to this:
> Will it be a
simple road story? And if so, how will audiences react to the
> motives
(sexual and otherwise) of our heroes? Will it be about escaping a
> hypocritical
Establishment? The Gen-Xers will surely relate.
>
> Will it be a
character study of Dean Moriarty? Last American hero? A
> lesson in
living instinctually, for the moment? Jack romanticized this
> character;
will Coppola do the same?
These are good
questions: I also hope the film will be about America in
the 40's. The diners, the dusty roads, the water tower
in Shelton,
Nebraska ... I
think these things might translate very well into film.
I also liked Jim
Stedman's idea about bracketing the film with the
story of how it
was written and published. An unusual
idea, but I'll go
along with it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Way far
back in the beginning of the world was the whirlwind warning
that we would all be blown away like chips and
cry -- Men with tired
eyes realize it now, and wait to deform and
decay -- with maybe they
have the power of love yet in their hearts
just the same, I just don't
know what that word means anymore -- all I
want is an ice cream cone"
-- Jack Kerouac, 'Desolation
Angels'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:23:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Burnett
<andrewb@BIDS.SSHARE.COM>
Subject: Coppola/Cassady
Thanks, Mary
Maguire, for your post on Coppola and the mystery of how he'll
treat Cassady in
his version of OTR....
As Levi Asher
wrote, Neal was known for his "friendliness and charm," but
Mary's point is
on the mark, too, via Holme's quote ("Neal was a psychopath
in the
traditional and most rigorous sense of the
>term.) --
Neal _was_ an operator, a consummate, pathological one (Aren't we
all at one level
or another? Neal was just really good at
it (or was he?)),
and I have a
feeling that a lot of his interactions were transactions, plain
and simple:
someone has $/sex/wisdom and I want it.
It seems to me as if
Neal was under
the delusion that he had to present a false
superhero-American
self to get at the $/sex/wisdom (it was his for the asking).
I always wonder
about NC: would I have allowed myself to be utterly charmed
by him? Or would I have been repulsed by his
game-playing/posturing? (I
imagine I would
have _allowed_ myself to be charmed in spite of the
game-playing, as
so many of his friends/loved ones did.) (All this is said
in context: we're
all failures, all saints; I think about NC a lot.)
As Mary said, I
hope (hope!) that Coppola comes through with the complexity
of the NC/JK
experience: NC's pathological dynamism (whatever this is - it
sounds right);
the bisexuality that must have been a component (it's
inextricably a
part of NC, JK); the raging omni-sexuality; the existential
fever to
move/never stop. My expectation (please,
I want to be
disappointed), is
that Coppola's going to do something about a couple of
post-war,
step-it-up-and-go "Buddies."
But it's a hell
of a lot of fun to fantasize about casting: Brad Pitt as NC,
yes, a la his
pathological cowboy in T/Louise; Jack is tougher: I don't see
Sean Penn
succeeding in either role. (God, too bad
DeNiro's the age he is:
he would have
been a _great_ Kerouac.)(DeNiro would be a great _late_ JK
right now)(pounds
added a la Raging Bull). I'm still not
on the right
actor, but what
about Kevin Spacey (is that it?) -- Glengarry Glen Ross, The
Usual Suspects--
that thoughtful, tentative dead-on set of reactions?
just some
thoughts....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:29:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Penguin Electronic
<ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>
Subject: Why now
For an article in
New York magazine, why is Beat so hip in 1995?
Where do Beat
references show up in contemporary culture (i.e. 10,000 Maniac's
"Hey, Jack Kerouac")?
Any thoughts
appreciated.
Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:23:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Druschke
<Greenplate@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: dream film
anybody agree
with this?
after waiting so long ( i mean Kerouac himself
sold the movie
rights!) i hope
Coppola doesn't screw it up.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:05:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why now
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 28 Sep 1995
10:29:37 -0400"
<s06a774e.033@penguin.com>
Well I am not
exactly sure of what the question:
Where do Beat
references show up in contemporary culture (i.e. 10,000 Maniac's
"Hey, Jack Kerouac")?
is asking, but I
would like to say that I believe the Beat Movement SHOULD BE on
a comeback because they had some goods
ideas. Now I aint talking
about robbing,
drinking, and smoking pot no I am talking PHILOSOPHICALLy
I.e. as Jack
Kerouac says in one of his earlier letters:
THOREAU WAS RIGHT;
JESUS WAS RIGHT. IT'S ALL WRONG and I
denounce it and
it can all go to
hell. I don't believe in this society.
So as far as I am
concerned that I why they should be reread and understood
because we need
some change.
nick
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:51:15 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: dream film
Yeah, that's the
way I feel about it. After looking forward to the movie of
EVEN COWGIRLS GET
THE BLUES (thought it had a pretty good chance with the
right director)
it turned out to be a disastor. So I'm definitely taking a
wait and see
attitude with ON THE ROAD. To me the big name casting is a first
step in the wrong
direction, but . . . we'll see.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:51:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Vicente Garcia Pineiro
<vgarcia@GOLIAT.UGR.ES>
Subject: Lars Dolf
In "demon box" by
kesey....houlihan is neal cassady....
who is lars dolf?
vic
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 06:50:22 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: john reeves
<reeves@ODYSSEY.COM.AU>
Subject: dream film
mmmmm....jack
already wrote the film....maybe its too late to do it right...
low or big
budget...i dont hink it makes much diff...a big budget file would
garner more
attention & probaly be better funded but have possible outside
control..
i like Olivers
Stones record of dealing with controversial americam myths
i:
vietmam/jfk/the doors/NBK & media manipulations...so i'd give him the job..
as for actors
well give cassady to william defoe & jack to Keanu Reeves...
i dunno why...
to beat or not to
beat...there is no question...
john ..
john reeves voice--61 7 38445907
HANGDOG PRODUCTIONS <?>
reeves@odyssey.com.au
http://www.odyssey.com.au/eyephon/reevhtml/reevhome.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:03:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
How 'bout Dennis
Quaid for Neal?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:15:36 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ralph Virgo
<rvirgo@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: dream film
You wrote:
>
>I think that
an interesting way to approach a filmed version of OTR
>would be to
also consider the how and when of its having been written.
>As
enthralling as the tale told is the story of Jack pounding away on
>the teletype
roll, of Allen carrying the manuscript around, trying to
>hawk it to
folks like Carl Solomon, and of Jack's world that followed
>Millstein's
review in the NYTimes. End it with that wonderful, telling
>scene (I
think this might be told in Desolation Angels... might be
wrong
>though) of
Jack opening-up that crate of 1st editions, just as Neal
>comes into
the room. There was something about Neal's expression that
>probably
haunted Jack through many a happy hour.
>Whaddya Know,
>Jim Stedman
This is, in
essence, what Carolyn Cassady's "HeartBeat" was. It was
made into a film
with Nick Nolte more than passable as Neal, John Heard
pretty bad as
Jack, and Sissy Spacek almost right for Carloyn.
I like the
following for key roles in Coppola's "On The Road" film:
Brad
Pitt..........Cassady
Andy
Garcia........Kerouac
Gary
Oldman........Burroughs
Gary
Sinise........Ginsberg
Steve
Buscemi......Huncke
Julianne
Moore.....Carolyn
Drew
Barrymore.....LuAnne
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 00:59:10 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: "Message to Garcia"
Just wanted to
say thanks to the people who set me straight on "messages to
Garcia." You
guys are so fucking erudite!
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:10:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Cal Godot <godot@WOLFE.NET>
Subject: Test
This is a test.
Cal McInvale JAZZ FLAVORED COFFEE
e-mail:
godot@wolfenet.com
WWW:
http://www.wolfenet.com/~godot/
--------------
What is most
appealing about young folks, after all, is the changes,
not the still
photographs of finished character but the movie,
the soul in
flux. -- Thomas Pynchon
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 10:34:47 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: john reeves <reeves@ODYSSEY.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Test
>This is a
test.
>
>
IT WORKS
>Cal
McInvale JAZZ FLAVORED COFFEE
> e-mail:
godot@wolfenet.com
>WWW:
http://www.wolfenet.com/~godot/
>--------------
>What is most
appealing about young folks, after all, is the changes,
>not the still
photographs of finished character but the movie,
>the soul in
flux. -- Thomas Pynchon
>
>
john reeves voice--61 7 38445907
HANGDOG PRODUCTIONS <?>
reeves@odyssey.com.au
http://www.odyssey.com.au/eyephon/reevhtml/reevhome.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:04:27 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg on Rock & Roll (PBS)
Comments: To:
Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<9509271927.AA67433@rs580a.haifa.ibm.com>
Yes, I'm in the "same boat" as
Joseph Rodrigue, and would REALLY like
to know what
Ginsberg said about rock music, etc....but am still waiting
for a reply to
JR's post....(What TV show was Ginsberg on? A PBS "Special"?
And they were
showing old footage of Kerouac's funeral? This was a special
show about the
Beats, or specifically about Ginsberg?)
fws, taipei
On Wed, 27 Sep
1995, Joseph Rodrigue wrote:
> What's
Ginsberg been saying about Bobby D, the Beatles etc? I'm out of the
> country and
can't possibly see this. Thanks.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:36:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kathryn VanGundy
<PrfEnglish@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Howl Obscenity Trial
A student in one
of my classes is trying to locate some information on the
actual
controversy surrounding "Howl" and the obscenity trial against it for
inclusion in an
annotated bibliography. If anyone could
provide
bibliographic
information for such articles, my student would appreciate it!
We would also be
happy to provide a list of what we find to the group, if you
would like.
Thanks!
Kathryn
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:46:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sherri Hoffman
<shoffman@CREIGHTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Howl Obscenity Trial
In-Reply-To: <951001153607_33813460@mail06.mail.aol.com>
> A student in
one of my classes is trying to locate some information on the
> actual
controversy surrounding "Howl" and the obscenity trial against it for
> inclusion in
an annotated bibliography. If anyone
could provide
>
bibliographic information for such articles, my student would appreciate it!
These web sites
might prove helpful:
1. Banned Books On-line:
http://www.cd.cmu.edu/Web/People/Spok/most-banned.html
2. Literary Kicks (especially Ehrlich's HOWL OF
THE CENSOR in the Ginsberg
bibliography):
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:05:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 30 Sep 1995
09:03:52 -0400"
<950930090352_113039458@mail02.mail.aol.com>
YES YES YES
Dennis Quaid oh Howard you are an exccellent fellow because I
was just
thinkijng about this matter a few days ago well hours but so any
way I was
thinking nobody has worried about the accent of Neal yelling
go go and bobbing
his head like this crazy gone man DENNIS did in the
BIG BLUE OR THE
Big Deal or the Big something in Lousiana and he is just
friggin perfect
for the roll and but then I thought well who cares but
what a stupid
idea to post such nonsense as theya ll are doing but now
that since you
have agreed to me I must admit that HE IS AN EXCELLENT
Choice.
and also if you
must be so FRIGGIN concerned with this film that will never
gbge as good as
anybook anyway well I suggest that JACK ole buddy be portrayed
by that guy in
Nell because of his stone face but yet he simply MUST get
rid of that damn
IRISH Accent and then perfection.
Or all the
characters could be ten year olds because On The Road is such a
childishly silly
little book anyway as anyone who read the damn thing should
know.
nick
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:59:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Roth <BobR6969@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Howl Obscenity Trial
Kathryn:
I use The
Portable Beat Reader by Ann Charters in my English composition
classes. There is
some "good stuff" about the Howl trial in the text.
Bob
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:38:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
I say that most
of the actors being considered or cast are too old. When
the OTR stories
began Dean was 20 and Sal 25. Maybe Brad
Pitt as Jack
would be near the
age of the character.
I wonder how they
will do the scene where the three of them all stripped in
the car. Later Dean stood naked at the side of the
road like a statue as
the car drove
past and looked. Are they going to have
these big stars do
long extended
completely nude scenes. I know, they'll
show the girl.
And anyhow who
cares who they cast for this turkey, the
BIG question that
in my opinion
will make or break this film...
Did Levi Asher
get the part? He auditioned you know and
I wonder if he's
heard back yet.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:19:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire
<maguirem@CA.CCH.COM>
Subject: Tricycle
The following
appeared in Sunday's TORONTO STAR:
"Do you
think it's ironic, really, that the late Beat novelist Jack
Kerouac spent a
good deal of his be-bopping, travellin' time writing a
pious, straight,
passionate biography of Buddha?
The truth, as
TRICYCLE, the Buddhist quarterly, says in its cover package,
is that the Beat
Generation and its poets -- people like Allen Ginsberg,
Gary Snyder and
others -- were essential in helping to transmit Buddhism
to North America.
The package is
beautifully produced -- TRICYCLE is one handsome
publication --
and quite interesting and, by the way, Kerouac's tome on
Gautama will soon
be out."
Anyone had a
chance to read this issue?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:29:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Howl Obscenity Trial
In-Reply-To: <951001153607_33813460@mail06.mail.aol.com>
Have them look
into Ann Charters' _Portable Beat Reader_ (254-63) and at
Barry Miles'
_Allen Ginsberg: Howl (Original draft facsimile, etc.)_. New
York: Harper and
Row, 1986. This has recently been
reissued in paper and
is a gold mine of
information on "Howl" and related matters. My students
and I find it
fascinating.
Dan Terkla
Illinois Wesleyan
University
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:57:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: howl obscenity trial
Make sure you
look into "Howl of the Censor" Nourse Pub. Co. 1961
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:01:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Dream film
In-Reply-To: <199510020538.WAA18075@hsc.usc.edu>
from "Timothy K. Gallaher" at
Oct 1, 95 10:38:50 pm
> Did Levi Asher
get the part? He auditioned you know and
I wonder if he's
> heard back
yet.
I can't
understand it, but Coppola has not yet called.
I'm thinking
maybe he mailed
me a contract and it got lost. Damn post
office.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:35:45 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Tricycle
Haven't read it,
but I've seen it. It's excellent and worth getting.
Tricycle has also
just published a book titled "Big Sky Mind" which
beautifully
documents the beat influence and contribution to American
Buddhism.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:12:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Chicago Review
Anyone in or near
the Chicago area should get hold of this week's READER
paper (a very
fine free local paper). The lead article is the first part of
a wonderful piece
on the first publication of _The Naked Lunch_ in extracts
in the Chicago
Review; how the new Editor discovered the Beats and did two
issues, one on
the San Francisco Poets and one on Zen Buddhism, with
Kerouac, Snyder
etc ... how with Kerouac's help Burroughs started
corresponding
with Irv Rosenthal, Chicago review's editor, and how Rosenthal
slowly started to
extract increasingly more obsence pieces in each issue
(this after
Ferlinghetti at City Lights and Rosset at Grove had rejected
it); how the
Chicago Daily News ran a front-page article on the filth
emanating from
the university of Chicago (which owned the Review) and the
amazing
political/religious backlash that resulted from this - with
Rosenthal being
kicked out of the University and forthcoming issues banned,
and the whole
concept of the U of C protecting free speech (one of its
proudest claims)
being sacrificed.
But it got
Burroughs published and launched onto an unsuspecting world ...
Two points of
Kerouac interest as well. -Old Angel Midnight_ was first
published in one
of these issues, but was written as _Lucien Midnight_ until
Lucien Carr got
out of jail and objected. Also ... to go back to a strand on
this list as week
or two back ... Kerouac sent Rosenthal a letter in which
he insisted that
Everything must be printed as submitted, even including his
typos. No
editing, not even copy-editing. So to leave a printer's typo in a
Kerouac edition
really is out of line (subtle publisher's joke there).
The article
(continued next week) is by Gerald Brennan. It doesn't say who
he is but the
name is vaguely familiar - anyone on the list know?
Nick W-W
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:20:49 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Penguin SF Blues
I stopped by 4
bookstores in NYC this weekend looking through the new Penguin .
95 cent display
racks for San Francisco Blues. All 4
stores were sold out of t
he Kerouac
title. What's going on? Is someone hoarding? I hope Penguin is ru
sing additional
copies to NYC book dealers.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:42:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dream film
>> Did Levi
Asher get the part? He auditioned you
know and I wonder if he's
>> heard
back yet.
>
>I can't
understand it, but Coppola has not yet called.
I'm thinking
>maybe he
mailed me a contract and it got lost.
Damn post office.
>
I hate that Post
Office.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:47:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Penguin SF Blues
>I stopped by
4 bookstores in NYC this weekend looking through the new=
Penguin .
>95 cent
display racks for San Francisco Blues.
All 4 stores were sold out=
of t
>he Kerouac
title. What's going on? Is someone hoarding? I hope Penguin=
is ru
>sing
additional copies to NYC book dealers.
You know, you
could buy the complete Book of Blues.
But who am I to
talk. I bought the 95 =A2'er. Those little $0.95 books are
great. All sorts of good stuff. I wish they would do this all the time.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:31:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Derek Teslik
<dteslik@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Tricycle
>The following
appeared in Sunday's TORONTO STAR:
>
>"Do you
think it's ironic, really, that the late Beat novelist Jack
>Kerouac spent
a good deal of his be-bopping, travellin' time writing a
>pious,
straight, passionate biography of Buddha?
>
>The truth, as
TRICYCLE, the Buddhist quarterly, says in its cover package,
>is that the
Beat Generation and its poets -- people like Allen Ginsberg,
>Gary Snyder
and others -- were essential in helping to transmit Buddhism
>to North
America.
>
>The package
is beautifully produced -- TRICYCLE is one handsome
>publication
-- and quite interesting and, by the way, Kerouac's tome on
>Gautama will
soon be out."
>
>
>Anyone had a
chance to read this issue?
>
I've leafed
through....it looks wonderful. I love
this magazine, have never
been disappointed
by an issue.
-derek
--------------
Derek Teslik | "The young are the only ones who bring
Helter Skelter
Magazine | anything into this world, and they are not
3519 Woodbine
St. | young for long"
Chevy Chase, MD
20815 | -William S. Burroughs
--------------
--DTeslik@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:48:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Sallee <Censorus@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Test
why assume, as
the myths born of mass cunsumtion's imperatives would have it,
that the souls of
the young are some how more in flux that those more
advanced along
the path of maturity? I put it to you that that far from being
nearly so dynamic
the younger soul is merely simpler and less articulated
that it will in
time become. youth is boring but more easily manipulated
there in lyes it
virtue to the myth makers
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:05:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Re: Dream film
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
>>> Did
Levi Asher get the part? He auditioned
you know and I wonder if he's
>>>
heard back yet.
>>
>>I can't
understand it, but Coppola has not yet called.
I'm thinking
>>maybe he
mailed me a contract and it got lost.
Damn post office.
>I hate that
Post Office.
Is that the same
Post Office Bukowski writes about? Must
be.
In any case, it
looks like Levi, because he was kind enough to mention the
CBA in his Beat
News page, might get a shot playing for the Dharma Beats
cosmic baseball team,
so, does he really need a Hollywood
career...?
Levi, are you
left-handed?
Catch you later,
Andrew
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:48:37 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Tricycle
Yes, a friend
sent me the TRICYCLE issue and I read it and enjoyed it. I did
note a couple of
factual errors. One article placed Big Sur north of San
Francisco(It's
actually south of Monterey which is well south of S.F.); and
the other had to
do with the date of composition of ON THE ROAD. I can't
remember exactly
but the writer placed the date of composition at some time
other than 1951,
by saying something like "It's been x number of years since
Kerouac wrote ON
THE ROAD."
Anyway quibble,
quibble, quibble. It's a good issue.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:03:13 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
QUIT BEAT-L
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:13:52 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: john reeves
<reeves@ODYSSEY.COM.AU>
QUIT BEAT-L
john reeves voice--61 7 38445907
HANGDOG PRODUCTIONS <?>
reeves@odyssey.com.au
http://www.odyssey.com.au/eyephon/reevhtml/reevhome.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:15:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fugs Discography Update
Comments: cc:
RHulvey@aol.com
Hello all,
This is Ross,
again. I beg the indulgence of everyone.
I am sending an
expanded version of my original post,
with corrections
and additions. If anybody objects
to this being on
the List, I'll refrain from doing it again
(but the
discography will be available to any who ask).
Three people
responded to my request for further
entries [and I
thank them heartily]. Also, I dug a
path through my
stacks of boxes of books and
records so that I
could gain access to my own
collection of
Fugs (having lived too long with
only cassette-dubbed
copies of the albums).
Again, if anyone
has additions, corrections, or
comments I will
forever be in their debt. Please
respond directly
to me (RHulvey@aol.com) or
the List, if
appropriate.
And so, for the
discography:
THE FUGS:
The Village Fugs
(lp, Broadside [Folkways] Records, 304,
1965)
First Fugs Album
[re-issue (I think) of above, often
thought
to be THE first Fugs album]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1018, 1965)
(lp, Base Record, ESP-1018, nd)
The Fugs First
Album
[re-issue of above, with additional
tracks]
(cd, Fugs Records, 1993)
The Fugs
[liner notes by Allen Ginsberg]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1028, 1966)
(lp, Base Record, ESP-1028, nd)
The Fugs Second
Album
[re-issue of above, with additional
tracks]
(cd, Fugs Records, 1993)
The ESP Sampler
[Fugs, Holy Modal Rounders, et al]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1051, nd)
Tenderness
Junction
[guests: Allen Ginsberg & Gregory
Corso]
(lp, Reprise Records, RS6280, 1968)
Virgin Fugs
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1038, 1968)
(lp, Base Record, ESP-1038, nd)
It Crawled Into
My Hand, Honest
(lp, Reprise Records, 1969)
(lp, Edsel Records, XED 181, 1986)
The Belle of
Avenue A
(lp, Reprise Records, RS6359, 1969)
Golden Filth
[subtitled "Alive at the Filmore
East"]
(lp, Reprise Records, RS6396, 1970)
Fugs 4, Rounders
Score
[Fugs and Holy Modal Rounders]
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-2018, 1975)
Big Ego
[Fugs does "A Monologue,"
with tracks by other performers]
(lp, Dial-a-Poem, 1978)
Proto-Punk
[subtitled "The Fugs Greatest Hits,
Vol. 1]
(lp, Adelphi Records, 1982)
(lp, PVC Records, 1983)
Refuse to be
Burnt-Out
(lp, New Rose Records, ROSE 56, 1984)
(lp, Olufsen Records, DOC 5006, 1984)
Baskets of Love
(lp, Olufsen Records, DOC 5009, 1985)
No More Slavery
(lp, Olufsen Records, DOC 5001, 1986)
Star Peace
(2 lps, New Rose Records, ROSE 115, 1987)
Fugs Live in
Woodstock
(cd, Musik/Musik, 1989)
Real Woodstock
Festival
[should be released by now, but
haven't seen it yet]
(2 cds, Ace Records, 1995)
ED SANDERS:
Sanders'
Truckstop
(lp, Reprise Records)
Beer Cans on the
Moon
(lp,
Reprise Records)
The Dial-a-Poem
Poets
[Ed reads "Cemetery Hill"]
(lp, Dial-a-Poem, 1972)
Disconnected
[Ed reads "Stand by My Side, Oh
Lord"]
(lp, Dial-a-Poem, 1974)
Biting Off the
Tongue of a Corpse
[Ed reads "The Struggle"]
(lp, Dial-a-Poem, 1975)
Totally Corrupt
[Ed reads "This is the Age of
Investigation Poetry
and Every Citizen Must Investigate"]
(lp, Dial-a-Poem, 1976)
One World Poetry:
Live from Amsterdam
[Ed reads "Ban the Bomb (No Neutron
Bomb),"
also readings from Burroughs, di Prima,
etc.]
(2-lps, Milkway Records, 1981)
Songs in Ancient
Greek
(cd, Olufsen Records, 1989)
The Best of
Sanders
(cass., Ed Sanders, 1992)
Poetry in Motion
[Ed & others]
(cd-rom, Voyager Co., QT 11, 1994)
TULI KUPFERBERG:
No Deposit, No
Return
(lp, ESP Records, ESP-1035)
(cd, re-issue [not confirmed])
Tuli and Friends
(lp, Shimmy Disc SHIMMY 020, 1989)
Rutles Highway
Revisited
[Tuli does "Living in Hope."
Also,
tracks by Peter Stampfel, et al]
(cd, Shimmy Disc, SDE 9028/CD, nd)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:04:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "P.G. Springer"
<hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fugs Discography Update
In-Reply-To: <951003221542_115631326@mail06.mail.aol.com>
I have Tuli K.'s
No Deposit No Return pressed in pure yellow vinyl.
The other copies
I've seen of this disk are plain black vinyl.
Any word on how
many were pressed yellow?
p g
o p s
c o u
t
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:16:41 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Why now
> For an
article in New York magazine, why is Beat so hip in 1995?
Just as Kerouac
et al spoke for a generation at the start of the cold war - a
time of great
uncertainties especially for the young - so they are pertinent and
important at the
end of it. Again we are in a transitory period, a time of
discovery, which
started around Christmas 1990 with the coming down of that
wall. And what
better than On The Road as our bible of exploration, in which
even crooked
souls are holy.
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
Flat 3
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:58:22 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie <simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Penguin SF Blues
In your message
dated Monday 2, October 1995 you wrote :
> I stopped by
4 bookstores in NYC this weekend looking through the new Penguin
> 95 cent
display racks for San Francisco Blues.
All 4 stores were sold out of
> the Kerouac
title. What's going on? Is someone hoarding? I hope Penguin is
> rusing
additional copies to NYC book dealers.
We don't have it
at all in the UK, which I think is an outrage. Anyone what to
send me a copy?!....
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
Flat 3
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:01:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chasooki@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Chicago Review
Bill,
I'll keep an eye
out for this article, but it doesn't usually come out to
Schaumburg. I'll also check our library.
Hope the Yankee
game was good.
Marc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:32:37 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Chicago Review
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:01:05 -0400
from <Chasooki@AOL.COM>
Ah, the Yankee
game was GREAT. The lead seesawed back
& forth.
Fantastic
pitching performances from Pettit, Wickman, Wetland, and most
of all,
Rivera. 15 Glorious innings. Tom left at 12:30 because he had
to get up at 6:00
but yours truly stayed until the 15th inning homer by
Leyritz. I predicted Leyritz's homerunas well as his
being hit by a
pitch in an
earlier at bat. Highlibht of the night
was back to back
homers by Sierra
and Mattingly. Well, you can read about
it in the
papers. I'd love to get tickets for the ALC
playoffs. I'm off to
Lowelltomorrow
for a Kerouac conference. Tom & Mike
coming along for
the ride. Weather there is chance of rain, partly
cloudly. Too bad,
because the
changing leaves should be lovely about now.
Don't go out of
your way for the
article, it's no big deal. Have you got
netscape
through aol.com
or something like it? I'm finding more
and more
interesting stuff
including a home page for the Doors that was pretty
neat. As I said earlier, Yankee home page page is
good too. Regards to
everyone.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:53:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Misdirected mail
My apologies to
Beat-l readers. A personal message for
Marc Chason was
accidently sent to
the Beat-l list. Please ignore and
delete.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:07:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire
<maguirem@CA.CCH.COM>
Subject: Bill's personal message
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>My apologies
to Beat-l readers. A personal message for Marc Chason was
>accidentally
sent to the Beat-l list. Please ignore and delete.
No way. That was
the best post we've seen in a long time.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:14:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago Review
Very nice. Why
can't we all have interesting conversations like this one?
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:11:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Marty Kinczel <MAK62@AOL.COM>
Subject: chicago
Hello to
anyone/everone,
I am living in
Chicago, and am looking for a beat friendly and aware
bookstore where I
can find interesting titles published by past and present
beat writers. You
can e-mail me at :
MAK62.aol.com
Thanks in advance
for your advise.
M
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:51:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "P.G. Springer"
<hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>
Subject: Re: chicago
Comments: cc:
mak62@aol.com
In-Reply-To: <951006171117_38175888@mail04.mail.aol.com>
On Fri, 6 Oct
1995, Marty Kinczel wrote:
> Hello to
anyone/everone,
>
> I am living
in Chicago, and am looking for a beat friendly and aware
> bookstore
where I can find interesting titles published by past and present
> beat
writers. You can e-mail me at :
> MAK62.aol.com
> Thanks in
advance for your advise.
Bookworks on
Clark and Sheffield.
p g
o p s
c o u
t
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:39:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Druschke
<Greenplate@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: chicago
try Powell's on
Lincoln or there is one in Hyde Park.
great selection of
used and new, and
cheap. good luck and happy hunting!!
greenplate.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:04:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Elizondo
<jme5808@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject: Re: chicago
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<951007013947_118243064@emout06.mail.aol.com>
This isn't really Re: Chicago because I
live in Texas, and not
Chicago. I used the reply so I wouldn't have to type
out all of the
address because I
am lazy. Anyway, I just wanted to say
hello to all of
you out there, in
here, or otherwise juxtaposed to SOMETHING.
I have read so much beat stuff that I
wish I was beat enough to
be really beat,
not tired, but beat. Sometimes I find
myself quoting
J.K. or A.G or
sometimes W.S.B in conversations that, in retrospect 20/20
vision, had
nothing to do with anything beat.
Psychosis? Probably.
I have a question as well. Does anyone truly DIG the cut-ups
that William S.
Burroughs did? I have to say that I like
to read them
whilest I am in
another frame of mind (usually compliments of
psychotropic fun
stuff), but when I read them in a "Normal" way, I can't
stand them. Hrmmm...Maybe that was part of the intention.
I dunno.
Jeff
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:36:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Use of Beat frases under false
Pretenses
Well Jeff as you
state well
>I have read
so much beat stuff that I wish I was beat enough to
be really beat,
not tired, but beat.
>Sometimes I
find myself quoting
>J.K. or A.G
or sometimes W.S.B in conversations that, in retrospect 20/20
vision, had
nothing to do with anything beat.
Psychosis? Probably.
Now you are not
alone, last night as I went about the town in a drunken
state of
delirium, a la (for those french canadians in the abouts) any
one of JK's books
I began to try to immitate Neal Cassidy in a very sad
attempt I might
add. But anyway I do quote some of the
stuff ffrom the
books as well
usually always finding NO ONE UNDERSTANDS.
Now as for
Burroughs I dont see how you could ever read it in a normal
state, because
even if you began in a normal state you would soon be
changed into a
state of delirium. And I may add that I
completely do
not understand
his words but somehow a picture of what is going on is
portrayed. In NOVA EXPRESS I can say I believe his only
reason for
all the
psychobabble is to get you so lost you wont realize that he says
he is just
repeating himself and then does it, but that you would not
realize
such. However if you look closely the
whole thing is just a
repition of
things in a different context I believe.
nick
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:47:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Six Gallery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.951007135818.583125573A-100000@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
from "Jeff Elizondo" at
Oct 7, 95 02:04:12 pm
Is nobody going
to mention that this is the 40th Anniversary of
the Six Gallery
poetry reading?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 18:33:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "A.J. Pacheco"
<KarenSaint@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Beat frases under ...
Dig a world where would-be poets and
heroes spend their nights
portraying such
unparallelled icons as Cassady and Bill B. I find one of the
more attractive
aspects of beatnikdom (did I just invent a word?) lies in its
obscurity.
There's some sort of sinful gratification I get when I do or say
something beautifully
beat and few or even none understand its brilliance.
Like so much
sheep.
I'm off to a good old-fashioned nod and
may I find that sweet place
where the poetry
merges with the physics into something even stranger than a
dream. Lizards
and mushrooms, toothless savage, drunken toad, cotton mouth,
cotton mind and
nothing forgiven. A slow smile spreads across the face of the
devil.
Trip hard.
And never die...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 20:23:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Great Poetry Reading .au files
I guess today is
the 40th anniversary of the Six Gallery Reading. To
celebrate you can
listen to Jack Kerouac read some of his poems (yes I know
he didn't read at
the Six Gallery that day, but this is what we got).
Details follow.
Hey, someone named Wiegand (I'm sorry I don't
remember his first name) put
up some great
readings by Kerouac on a web page. The
address is:
http://www.mathcs.duq.edu/~wiegand/jk.html
you can also get
there through my page with Kerouac sounds
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
but the small
snippets I put up pale in comparison to the six chunks of poetry
made available by
Wiegand.
He put up
readings from San Francisco Blues and Mexico City Blues.
The readings are
from the 27th - 30th choruses of SF Blues and the 228th
and 229th
choruses of Mexico City Blues.
They are long
files but well worth the wait. I
especially enjoyed Praised
Be Man, the 228th
Chorus of MexCity Blues.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:56:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery
In-Reply-To:
<199510072147.OAA19257@netcom.netcom.com>
It was mentioned,
albeit briefly, at the Beat Lit Symposium at UMass
Lowell last
Thursday. It hasn't, to my mind,
received anywhere near the
attention that it
should have. Thanks for reminding us.
Dan Terkla
Illinois Wesleyan
Univ.
Bloomington, IL
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 18:18:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Marty Kinczel <MAK62@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Beat frases under ...
ya
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:47:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: chicago
on the
cut-ups.....
............i've
started them (from 'the 3rd mind') but
find that i revert
back to some kind
of linear 'auto-pilot'....although physically i 'read the
text', i am in
search of the exact combination of words in the intro to
justify the risk
of paper cuts..................
...............however.............they
are fun to create and have performed
some.....................rene.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:35:06 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: john reeves
<reeves@ODYSSEY.COM.AU>
Subject: ?
Comments: To:
Bonnie Howard <HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
ahhh hows it
going A....i seen u been busy ...disseminnating DATA......
very good...
i scored the
latest NS & then deleted it after i sore the posts about
problems ..i wait
till they fix the thing i think
am feeling better
after a trip up the mountains over weekend....now back to
work ...
hits have jumped
dramatically on the eyephonics site since i posted it on YAHOO.
we got a cool
site of the day from some fellows in norway...i also
recomended
obelisk ..
catcha soon
...john ....
john reeves voice--61 7 38445907
HANGDOG PRODUCTIONS <?>
reeves@odyssey.com.au
http://www.odyssey.com.au/eyephon/reevhtml/reevhome.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:56:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Gads I mIssed It!
I somehow had in
my mind that October 13th was the 40th anniversary of the 6
Gallery reading
and as I have been away from the list for a while it was not
until today that
I noticed the October 7th date. I had
posted earlier about
doing something
to mark this and now, alas, I have missed it myself. Oh well
there is always
the 50th! I have made zero progress as
of late on the
database idea as
my life has been all topsey turvey -- mostly in a good way I
might add. I am just finishing up the biography of Anne
Sexton who was
certainly no Beat
in the usual sense that it is used -- but she was certainly
raw not cooked,
and in many ways like Ginsberg in that her poetry is naked.
Speaking of naked and confessional poets, I recently noticed that there is
a blurb by Robert
Lowell on the back cover of my _Naked Lunch_ edition --
first U.S. I
believe. Interesting that he would agree
to do that.
All for now,
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:12:37 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Lowell Celebration
As Chairman of
the event, I'd really like to hear from anyone who attended
the Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac ! Festival. Any constructive feedback is
welcome, but if
you have the time, answers to the following would help.
1. Did you like
it?
2. What did you
like best about the festival?
3. What did you
like least?
4. Where did you
come from?
5. How long did
you stay?
6. What can we do
better next year?
7. What shouldn't
we change?
Thanks. If you
want to reply privately- you can reach me at
mhemenway@igc.apc.org
Mark Hemenway
Chairman, Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!
P.S. If you
didn't get a mailing this year, send me your postal address so
we can put you on
the list.
P.P.S We will
probably do a much smaller celebration in March again next
year.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:33:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gads I mIssed It!
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 10 Oct 1995
20:56:32 EST
You can be
redeemed by doing something on October 21st, honoring Jack on
the day he passed
away in 1969. In Marquette, up here on the north coast
of Michigan,
we'll be celebrating with the second annual October In The
Railroad Earth
festival.
Cheers,
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:20:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Richard Centing
<rcenting@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Misdirected mail
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 05 Oct 1995 13:53:18
-0400 (EDT)
Beat-L:Richard
Centing at Ohio State University does not want to receive
BEAT-L stuff
anymore, Who can take my name off the mailings;or how do I do
it myself. If you
can do it, please remove RICHARD CENTING.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:33:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Richard Centing
<rcenting@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bill's personal message
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 05 Oct 1995 14:07:34
-0400
Dear
BEAT-L:Remove the name of richard Centing from the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:29:24 +0100
Reply-To: ba493@fim.uni-erlangen.de
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sebastian Schaer
<ba493@FIM.UNI-ERLANGEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Misdirected mail
>Beat-L:Richard
Centing at Ohio State University does not want to receive
>BEAT-L stuff
anymore, Who can take my name off the mailings;or how do I do
>it myself. If
you can do it, please remove RICHARD CENTING.
You might have
already received a few answers to solve this problem..
anyway ... if
not try:
Send a message
to: LISTSERV@UKCC.uky.edu
Name it as you like (this means: Subject:
whateveryoulike)
Just write:
SIGNOFF BEAT-L
and send the
message...
that's it!
--
Nothing is faster
than light...
...except bad news.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 21:51:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Katerie Prior <kadaca@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gads I mIssed It!
In-Reply-To: Your message <11OCT95.09248993.0017.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
of Wed, 11 Oct
1995 08:33:49 EST
When and where
specifically in Marquette is it?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 17:02:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Marty Kinczel <MAK62@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gads I mIssed It!
Please give
directions to this place in Marquette.
MAK62
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:44:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Off The Road
I know that most
of you have probably read or at least heard about Off
The Road by
Carolyn Cassidy, but if not I would sincerely advise it. Her
view of the behaviors
of Neal and Jack and Allen (NC, JK, AG) are rather
different than
portrayed in any of their books, poems, etc or in letters
they wrote.
Her view of Neal
is especially interesting seeing as you come to understand
how his fly by
night nature affected the people close to him.
Also I found
extremely interesting the explanation of the relationship between
herself and Jack
Kerouac which seems to be one rather hidden in other texts
altho illuded to.
I think Carolyn
had/has (is she dead?) a lot of talent just as the others
did, but somehow
she only got to use it in relating the story of the
beat
writers. She has an excellent way of
portaying emotions.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:18:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Off The Road
In-Reply-To: <01HWCYLKTNLE0067WT@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
from "Nicholas Herren" at Oct
12, 95 04:44:21 pm
> I think
Carolyn had/has (is she dead?) a lot of talent just as the others
> did, but
somehow she only got to use it in relating the story of the
> beat
writers. She has an excellent way of
portaying emotions.
Alive and well,
living in England.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:04:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Generational Cycles
I'm new to the
group (as of a few minutes as a matter of fact) and have been
reading up and
about the Beats now for a little over the year. Not much of
a 21 year old
scholar, but I chew them up as fast as I can still being in
college.
Anyhow, my major
interest here in the 13 Generation is how the past is
influencing our
current generational cycle and where it will take us. As a
reference to this
strand, one of the wonderful books I'm in the middle of
now is Strauss
& Howe _Generations: The History of America's Future,
1584 to 2069_
which is a wonderful book if you're interested in the social
ideology of the
Beat generation aside from the movement itself.
My question (if I
can ever get to the point) pertains to the mystery behind
the movement,
what exactly sparked so many.. can I say conservative
minds to look at
themselves as a serious social influence? I ask this
because the Beat
movement was seen as a literary movement as
well as a social
movement that affected us on a global scale. Being
that global
communications weren't as strong as they are today, it
was obviously
construed in different ways across the planet. Anoter
global revolution
happened at the height of the Boomers generation,
which has been
described as the primary reason for much of my
generations
problems currently. At any rate, Feminism and African-
Americanism
became a political past-time for many people, and
the world became
involved in its ecological awareness and so on.
Well, we're at
yet another age that is going to be adding to the
global evolution,
except this time it's going to happen at a 14.4
baud rate (maybe
a 28.8 given time), and I think that it is important
to recognize the
trends in the past and how they affect us today
(such as the Beat
movement). It is important for the global society
in general to
recogize these trends, but it is more important for
the would-be
leaders of our generations to know where the world
has led us.
So.. maybe I'm
babbling, maybe I just read something that stuck
in my head and I
used everyone as a vent.. I dunno. If this question
was either
totally off-topic or too confusing to care about, ignore
me.. but this is
something that I really am interested in.. as everyone
should be... if
you have anything to do with the future that is..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:41:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
critter -
We found your
mail rather encouraging. We are boomers,
yet new to the Beat
scene, too. It's good that you are reading about
Generational Cycles
pertaining
to the Beat
movement and your expressed interest. In
our opinion, JK , NC,
and AG
were far from
conservative even though their contemporaries were. For the
most part,
that is. Keep up your interests and good luck at
school.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:47:14 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Off The Road
Carolyn Cassady
is very much alive and well and, last I knew, living in
England. She is a
delightful woman. She has appeared in interviews in
Moody Street
Irregulars and Beat Scene within the past year or so. Last
year, she did a
small tour on the West Coast and stopped among other
places at the
Monterey Bookstore and Cafe. And of course was prominent at
the 94 NYU bash.
She is a talented artist and has made her contribution in
that field as
well as in costuming and theater design.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:39:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Gads I mIssed It!
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Thu, 12 Oct 1995
16:02:38 EST
>Please give
directions to this place in Marquette.
>
>MAK62
(there've been a
number of requests for directions... I hope that folks
don't mind my
posting this to the list...)
October In The
Railroad Earth II
6:45 - 11:30
p.m., October 19, 1995
The Koffee Hause,
1125 N. Third
Street
Marquette, MI
Arriving from
Northern Wisconsin/Minnesota, take hwy 41/28 through Ishpe
ming and Negaunee
and into Marquette. Head downtown, on Washington Stree
t, aimed right
for Lake Superior. Turn left (going uphill) on Third Stre
et... it's the
one with the post office on the corner. The Koffee Hause
is about 1/2 mile
up Third, on the left.
Arriving from the
lower Peninsula, take US 2, after crossing the Mackina
c Bridge, and
turn north on Hwy 117 (at Engadine). This'll take you to h
wy 28, which you
take west, through Munising. As you arrive in Marquette
follow the hwy
until it becomes Front Street, turn left onto Washington
Street, and look
for Third (see above)
Arriving from
Southern Wisconsin/Chicago, take 41 north to Marinette/Men
ominee. Enjoy the
lake route, and take Hwy 35 to Escanaba, where you joi
n Hwy 41, which'll
lead you to Marquette.
Let me know if
you can attend, and I'll watch for you...Let me know if y
ou want to
read/perform, and I'll secure a time slot.
Hoo Hah!
Jim
QUIT
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:48:14 CDT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: bs at AUC <i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Moody Street Irregulars
On Fri, 13 Oct
1995 08:47:14 EDT,
mARK
hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
wrote:
>Carolyn
Cassady is very much alive and well and, last I knew, living in
>England. She
is a delightful woman. She has appeared in interviews in
>Moody Street
Irregulars
>
Could somebody
post a mailing/subscription address for MSI, please...?
Thanks in advance
-
bs@AUC
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:17:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac poem
When's The Last
Time You Arm-Wrestled At The Shoreland Bar?
(to be read at
opening of October In The Railroad Earth II,
10/19/95)
Not much distance
between here and red brick Lowell.
When's the last
time you arm-wrestled at The Shoreland Bar?
My kids wonder
why this is done,
this night again
this year.
"It's in
honor of them things passed," I tell 'em.
"It's my
chance to stand up on the curb and wave at the parade,"
I tell 'em.
So...
here's to John
Clellon Holmes, gone in October
here's to Ray
Kauffman, gone in October
here's to Edie
Parker Kerouac, gone in October
here's to Roy
Buchanan and Muddy Waters and Charles Bukowski and
Jim Morrison and
Janis and Jimi and Pigpen and Steve Goodman and
Ray Carver and
Neal Cassady and the Ghost of the bloody
Susquehannah.
Gone, gone, gone.
Here's to crazy
sweatstink hard workin sea captain Michael Dexter
Stedman, a
vanished man and disappeared brother.
Here's to the
tumbled bones of Jesse James, and scavenged burial
spot of Khufu,
the silt and weeded
remnants of the Edmund Fitzgerald,
and those
memories that we forbid to let rest.
There's voices
released as we do our diggin' ---
I was thinking, that if the formation
of crystals are
effected by things like temperature
and pressure and
sound, then there must exist all
around you the sounds
of creation... somehow stored and
trapped in the
crystalled crust of your planet.
Ladies and Gentleman:
the voice of Paul Revere, on the conclusion
of his ride,
"Whoah, horse!"
Now, heaven hosts
a scene that's gotta be killer-diller.
The second known
meeting of Ti-Jean,
Jean Louis Lebris
de Kerouac,
and captain Jerry
Garcia.
The first time
they met was in New York,
and a bus full of
Jerry and Neal
wheeled
cross-continent to Ginsberg's apartment
where the
wild-eyed newsaints draped an American flag
over the sad and
whiskey shoulders of
Armchair Daddy-o.
Slow Jack stood
and folded the flag,
triangle-like,
giving the occassion
a proper military funeral...
and the cats
played taps.
Pete Seeger says:
Take it easy, but take it!
John Montgomery
said: Watch your feet when your skull catches the
beat!
and I say
"welcome, eh?"
QUIT
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:27:39 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: msi
MSI has
ceased. Mailing address has been
discontinued.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:24:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac poem
In-Reply-To: <13OCT95.11116896.0085.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
from "Stedman,
Jim" at Oct 13, 95 10:17:36 am
Jim Stedman: nice
poem!
> When's The
Last Time You Arm-Wrestled At The Shoreland Bar?
> (to be read
at opening of October In The Railroad Earth II,
> 10/19/95)
Tell us how it
goes ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:04:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
Kerouac was a
French Canadian Catholic who objectified women and had strong
feelings for the
conservative movement is the 60s. When it was convenient, he
was liberal.
Otherwise, he could be a stodgy, close-minded man.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:19:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: msi
Moody Street
Irregulars has ceased publication.
We have plenty of
back issues for sale if anyone is interested in getting
them. $10 an
issue. Contact us for issue number availability.
Betsy
Water Row Books
waterrow@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 22:16:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
>Kerouac was a
French Canadian Catholic who objectified women and had strong
>feelings for
the conservative movement is the 60s. When it was convenient,
he
>was liberal.
Otherwise, he could be a stodgy, close-minded man.
I had read before
that he was somewhat conservative, not to mention there is
an aire of it in
some of his writings.. though I wouldn't have thought he
was
so far.. well, as
right as you made his out to be. Catholic's are thought to
be
conservative for
the most part, but there's something about a French
Canadian
Catholic that
just sounds evil.. dunno.. I'm rambling..
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 22:43:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Trip Toner <ElTripo@AOL.COM>
Subject: cycles
May Iquote
Burroughs.... in _JACK'S BOOK_
"he was an
Eisenhower man and he believed in the old-fashioned virtues, in
America and that
Europeans were decadent, and he was violenly opposed to
communism and any
sort of leftist ideaologies"...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 23:22:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: The Short Hairs Are Taking Over
Section 1: The
Short Hairs Are Taking Over
oThat esensual phosphorescence my youth
delighted inE now lies
almost behind me
like a land of dreams wherein an angel of hot sleep
dances like a
diva in strange veils thru which desire looks and cries.o
- Lawrence Ferlinghetti, 26, _A Coney
Island of the Mind_
Ive heard it announced over the
loud-speaker at K-Mart that
Pretty soon the
short hairs will all be taking over our inspiration
again.o Not since
Kerouac drank his last whiskey have we felt the words
of a conservative
fill this void we feed our poetry from, our artwork
from.. creativity
will now shout in the voice of a short hair.
Walking along the side of the road down on
5th and Main, flipping
my quarter into
the dusk which slowly filters in through the smog,
throwing a
scarlet haze onto everything I hold true; I heard the beat of
an up-right bass,
man in corduroy- dark corduroy, looking a little negro
as the night
settled in. He turned around his cap and I saw- pushing its
way from
underneath the rim- short hair, short dark hair, short dark
curly hair. I
knew it wasnEt the end of anything.
A skateboard pounded down from a mid-air
360, baggy cut-offs, Rage
Against the Dying
of the Light shirt hung dark on his back- he too, he
too sported a
dyed head of short hair, short blue hair, short straight
blue hair.
I was there when it all came around. The
heat was my enemy, I
sweated out each
word from shaking hands.. shaking in fear I was, from
finger tip to
psyche, scribbling on blank mocking pages: eThe short
hairs are taking
over.. the short hairs are taking over.. the short
hairs are taking
over.E It was a message I believe, a message from
something I
couldnEt even begin to fathom. A message from something in a
golden throne,
sporting short hair.
Then it occurred to me that maybe there
was something vital in
this message.
Something ancient inked dark on the body that was a tattoo
of
non-conformity; something devilish in the hole that claimed those
noses, those
ear-lobes, those eye brows, those tongues.. those rings
that moved in
such a motion to hypnotize the cobra of modern. The cobra
of modern has
reached its limit, it is now the aftermath of modern, life
is art, we as a
nation of man have become art. We have become what is
known as
postmodern, beyond modern, beyond reality.
Television station in the back of my head
relays images of people
I have once
loved, once destroyed, slept with or fucked with or fucked:
opinions
separated for the conscientious objector. She was a small yet
beautiful child I
saw, somewhere in her late teens- sixteen I believe-
and she was white
as white as white can be, paper white and ever so
fragile. Her hair
was black, an inviting black that moaned a sleeping
jazz. She smiled;
from the tip of her hair swung threads, red threads,
blue threads,
green, yellow, brown; on the tip swung bells singing to me
once again that
she had transcended actuality, she was post to modern to
me.
Black woman, somewhat round, hair in
braids a platinum blonde, sat
across from me at
DennyEs and she was of this beast, this transcendental
modern beast. The
table was filled with each creature a living art in
motion- poetry if
you will, good poetry, happy poetry or sad poetry,
acid poetry, rust
poetry, pot poetry, dope poetry, rap and blues, R&B
and melodic
jazz.. make me a symphony of straight edge and queer, make
me a knight of
the round table, I donEt want to sit with the squares.
I donEt want to sit with her and her
melody, her Grateful Dead
tattoo and the
dress she borrowed from a lover of mine and never
returned. That
bitch is one step above a fag hag, sheEs a man hag. She
was something I
considered to be past. I met her in harmony one evening
after a pint of
Rocky Road and a six-ounce of Little Kings, Cindy Lauper
making waves on the
radio, we two making noise in the back seat of my
Cutlass Sierra.
The concrete cracked, the heavens squealed like metal on
metal, I knew I
had touched two lips that were meant for a long hair. A
head of hair that
catches dreams and never lets go. I dream catcher,
north, south,
east, west, it all becomes a web that tangles me here in
my moment of
glory: a two second orgasm that ends in regret.
Every eye around the table is another
version of life to me, every
blink, every
stare is dreaming of the stars: the farthest point they can
make it away from
this night like they wish they did every night. One
man brushes up
his chops, another talks about beating the under-aged
soccer-player
with morals of a fag and holds his hands up to the Lord,
looking for
salvation. Across from me a young poet that catches his
rhythm in every
step he takes asks me for an opinion on clitoral
piercing, but
unfortunately I havenEt had that pleasure. Neither have I
given nor
received. What do I receive now that I too have become that
ever-dreaded
short hair? What dreams have I caught and set free?
I have seen the world through an entirely
raw set of jewels, I
have heard the
city in ways never dreamt by the savages that carry their
weapons and
demand their respect. Their is no blood on my hands, only
pumping through
veins that call themselves immortal. I shall not die
before my voice
is raised into the clouds where Wordsworth once
wandered. I shall
wander to Indiana and find my friend Fensel for there
is a soul I truly
admire. There is a man with a head on his shoulders, a
gut below his
belt, wisdom in his throat, soul in the house that is his
heart. There is a
man that is beyond the modern, there is a man that is
man.
But decidedly I am confused about the
length of his hair. He is
catching those
dreams as long hairs are bound to do so much better than
a short hair.
Him, free from body ink and painful piercings; him, super
blue dog and
roadhouse groupie; him, a cut of sliver floating in the
chalice filled
with warm red wine- that is the order of the house, and
that is the
visionary called poet called Fensel called man; long hair
extreme in a
velvet pair of bell bottoms.
Where does this leave him: a dream catcher
like most of the
others, unable to
let them go, set them free as a dreaming dove of
splendor. If
youEre gonna defeat the world, youEll need a clean set of
morals and
dignity over-flowing like the seas. I have pride in that man
that lives up to
those demands, but still I wonder with great admiration
what form of
dreams he has caught in his hair.
As my mind wonders from Indiana to Ohio,
and back around to Dayton
where we all came
in to the 48th St. DennyEs to drink bad coffee,
licking the oil
from our mouths as if this ritual of caffeine and
tobacco is
something revisited from the ways of the American Indian. I
feel no red skin
on the hand that is creating these words, I feel
nothing but a
lack of pride in me: a German turned Redneck. I look to
find a sense of
balance between the two but all I smell is alcohol. The
Germans were beer
lords, and slaughters of the Jews. The Rednecks never
loved their
niggers, and they never loved triumph over anything but
distillation and
machinery. Is it pure what is made in America, or is it
simply American?
American like myself. I only wish I knew.
This is nothing that I wish to claim as my
own. This is another
form of
technology, another version of a vision, a revision, a
maturation of the
original draft that is my flesh. White I am, white and
male, and I ask
the world: Who will represent me? Who will be what I
claim to love?
Who will be the savior of this? I am a man free from
those chains of
sexism and racism in my heart, but beyond all of
immortal veins, out
to the white male exterior, I am forced back into
those shackles. I
am forced behind a cigarette and a cup of coffee to
contemplate my
existence.
The lines along the walls are jagged, the
tiles are dusty, the fan
is making an eddy
of the cigarette smoke, I flip an ash like a wild
loose comma into
the sentence of an ash tray. More men pile into the
diner on Main,
people are waiting: jive people calling me funky, telling
me donEt dis.. I
donEt believe that I dis that often, I am white because
of that. There
are red people, rednecks, briars, white trash of every
race. Is this my
racism bleeding through my core? Classification is
racist, a long
haired dreamer I once loved told me before he decided to
classify himself
separated. So if you ainEt a black man, what the hell
are you? This is
where we travel from Ohio, off the East coast and over
to Africa. I know
of the jazz bars on the cape, I know of the women
their, the women
and their blues. The women and my blues.
This is a land where we can define our
heritage, or their
heritage: the
heritage of African Americans, not quite African, not
quite American.
Is this what anger can do, cause you to disassociate
yourselves from
everything that is unlike you? Cause you to classify
yourself as
separated and look for the benefits that is granted to
minorities?
I am a minority then. I am a minority that
is American, truly
American..
nothing southern in these bones, nothing German in these
veins. I am not
white, I am not black. I am not red, I am not brown. I
am simply a
metaphor for inspiration. I am poetry, short haired poetry
hanging from
lines on pages in newspapers or novels. I infest the
internet and the
zines, the chapbooks and Norton collections. I am aging
slowly, using
language and buying intelligence. I am at war, at odds and
ends with every
single human that can not call themselves poetry.
We are a generation one step beyond
metaphor, we are no longer a
representation of
art, we are no longer the means to which art is
achieved. We are
art. You there in your 60s stare, or the man in the
corner reading
Ferlinghetti and Burroughs; you there in the motion of
American
Dreaming, thinking Morrison is speaking to you as you copy the
lines to the
movie of your mind down on coffeehouse napkins stained with
espresso. you
there: you vampire, feeding on Gothic, looking to
supplement your
diet with Poe. I know each and every one of you. I know
your days and
your nights. IEve seen you in your butt-shorts at the
1470, IEve seen
you in your dark shades with a crocheted goatee snapping
your fingers over
at Front Street, IEve seen your trails of eye-liner
and base whipping
through the metal detectors in the Asylum, IEve seen
you sweating with
your Kurt Cobain memorial T-shirt under the sun and
straw at the
Lollapalooza festival year after year after year. And I
believe I can say
that I know you because I am you. I am of you.
Each human facet of this culture has been
called a progression
from the Beats to
the Hippies to the Punks and on to us. The problem
with this notion
is that we are not able to be grouped together quite so
easily. Before me
in the diner I see many people. Many people who at
once are easily
tied together in a common culture. There are morays we
all hold true to
in some sense. For instance, the peace and love culture
our parents
paraded around half naked chanting is no longer valid to us.
We are more a
culture of aggressive action. This is not to say that we
are violent-
while much of our ways could easily be seen as violent- but
it is more an act
of acting than an act of violence. There is anger
though in our
hearts. We are angry that this machine of institution in
its many forms
such as politics, religion, scholastics, capitalism, and
so on, is
promoting what can simply be defined as stupidity. We are
angry that the
dollar is the true Lord of the land and his father is
none other than
Greed. These are the demons that have replaced the
heroes in our
Bible, and we are angry that America still holds to the
lie that we are
worshipping the Lord when in truth we are worshipping
ourselves.
Rimbaud attacked his motherland for ideals
such as this, as did
many of the last
centuries English poets such as Wordsworth, Shelly, and
others. Attacking
the institution is not a new endeavor, our
predecessors have
done this for countless centuries, as did those who
are believed to
be the ancestors of our culture (Beats, Hippies, et al),
and it is sad to
know that once these men obtain an office that would
allow them to
change even the smallest portion of the problems they see,
they forget their
youth and they forget they beliefs. It seems to me
that culture is
something we mold in our youth and shatter in our age. I
only hope I am lucky
enough to stay young forever, if not in flesh, then
in spirit.. this
is why my veins consider themselves immortal.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 23:32:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Off The Road
>Moody Street
Irregulars and Beat Scene within the past year or so.
I think someone
already asked for one of these, but could someone
supply the list
with both addresses or subscription information? I'd
really love to
more about both of these..
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:24:42 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Kerouac poem
In-Reply-To: <13OCT95.11116896.0085.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
that's a nice poem reminding me of the
common attack on beat
poetry in 50's by "academic poets"....which
is of course also
(ironically) also one of the great UNIQUE
FEATURES and VALUES
of this poetry, namely it's "open
form," free spontaneous flow
that ginsburg jazz-bops into in
"Howl" (where he later talks
about it in terms of Kerouac-inspired long
saxophone riffs etc)
clearly (as g says) inspired by
kerouac.....
BUT for me yes on one hand i love the
free-flowing jazz impro-
vised line tho on the OTHER i'm maybe too
"academic" not to think
it's maybe done better in "Howl"
(because more contrived, less
actually spontaneous?) than this K poem and
maybe better in
Rimbaud's Illuminations (for the same
reason) than either...?....
Olson
is supposed to be Mr. Open Form coming from Pound and
Williams' Paterson, I prefer Pound to O or
W for (I think) the
same reason again (though think W's short
poems are great, and
am fascinated by O's long rambling (mildly
insane) "projectivist"
ie fully phenomenological in the
MOMENT OF NOW BEINg-CREATED
verse.....)......fws
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:26:35 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: the theory flood continues (fwd)
Comments: cc:
derrida@cfrvm.bitnet
wild cody
morse: di dad dit: gap forecloses
the Other, l'autre der Sprache, Langue,
Tongue (pussy-slipped)
the split forecloses, (pre)supposes
mortgage, foreplay, assorted detritus
ballet tights, lyotards' balanced claims:
"freud's dream-work
operates au contraire to rules of
discourse"
and therefore in one sense "always
already uncoded" in the
libidinal economy of fertilizer stores,
the pure
(un)structured textualization of
underpants:
"Oh great Redeemer! Who hast not
Foreclosed
on my Soul's Mortgage!" who has not
de-coded pre-coded or
unduly pre-cluded mah poor sickly
fin-de-siecle ego constructed out of
discourses like so many
disentangled entaglements of plasticized,
elasticized
suspender straps
to wit: late 20th c.
semio-linguistico-linguini obsessions
perambulated intertwixt (and/or
smOthering) ab-original
Sprache als Geist, language as
all-permeating Divine Voice
(vox broccoli)
dih-dah, dih-dah-dit.....
fws
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:28:58 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: discussion of Rossetti's "Goblin
Market"
Comments: cc:
derrida@cfrvm.cc.ntnu.edu.tw
"honey out of sweetest carcass" =
"meaning" (oder "meinong")
spewn headlong out of decaying (radioactive
half-alive) signifier-
signified
GAP that is (quintessentially) langue, LANGUAGE
(vide derrida's deconstruction of
heidegger's Being/auld lang Sein
as "divine voice" a la
"Anaximander Fragment" in "Differance")
viewed this way we may place the
Biblical/Divine/Spiritual
ideas/
feelings/mere (mesozoic) intentions in their
proper CONTEXT:
the (late 20th c. obsessional) free
autoerotic play of (all too
human) WRITING which has gone
("literally") out of its mind......
fws
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:30:22 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: can u spot the "parodic
insertion" into text?
Comments: cc:
derrida@cfrvm.cc.ntnu.edu.tw
in a nutshell, as i see it:
rousseau, saussure et al: writing expresses
(transcribes)
speech, speech expresses a (we somehow
imagine as transcendent)
"meaning" BUT this whole
logocentric transcenence of "meaning"
to language bag is somehow deluded so let's
get back ("GET BAAAACK
.....to where you wanna be.....") to
the "bottom line" or rather
the all-pervasive ground (which is really
un-ground, abgrund,
abyss), "writing" (which never
pretended to have meaning present-
to-itself but rather always embodies
absence, trace, etc etc etc)
but also true jd is talking about
"arche-writing" (as is clear in
1st interview in "Positions") that
"underlies" both (actual or
"physical") speech AND
writing......
but this whole (saussurian, saurian) scheme
of things presupposes
ALPHABETIC LANGUAGES....pretty Eurocentric,
no? which is why this
all became clearest to me in "The China
Question" in "Gramma-
tology" where the sense of the gramme
or arche-writing is related
both to "algebra" (math/logic is
"outside" logocentric "speech,"
right? but still a language in sense of
"writing"?) and to Shang
Dynasty (before 1000 BC) Chinese oracle-bone
divination, in which
the "divine voice" appears
randomly/arbitrarily as CRACKS
("writing") on burned turtle
shells....(mere external memory as
repetition as against Platonic recollection,
PLUS--see all you get?!--
the notion of "fate" (and/or
divine necessity or Meaning) as free-play
and randomness....(vide Mallarme, Nietzsche,
Deleuze on "a throw
of dice," etc etc etc)....
ie (another way to look at it): eurocentric
thinking is "cracked"....
fws
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 09:19:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kurt Voelker <KVoelk@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cycles
I think Eltripo
has hit the nail on the head. Kerouac
certainly defied
convention in
action but hung violently to
conservative beliefs when it came
to his
thinking. There is a good Kerouac
interview in the CD collection _The
Beat Generation_
in which he spells out this seemingly paradoxical stance.
Kvoelk
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 13:20:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mat Awad
<mawad01@MAIL.ORION.ORG>
Subject: Re: cycles
In-Reply-To:
<951013224349_44180114@mail04.mail.aol.com>
I think JK was the type who appreciated
the idealism and possible
fruits associated
with communism. But, at the same time I
know he
encountered the
backlash that perhaps all idealogies fall prey to--human
nature. To follow/believe in an ideal is one thing,
to practice it
within the
framework of human existence is quite another.
WAD
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 20:49:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Viola Weinberg
<Vcweinberg@AOL.COM>
Subject: Upcoming Kerouac Reading
October in the
Railroad Earth
On Sunday,
October 29, 1995, 7:30 p.m. the annual Kerouac reading will take
place at
Melarkey's Bar and Grill/1517 Broadway/Sacramento, CA.
There Will Be
Eight Beats to the Bar--
* D.R. Wagner
* Viola Weinberg
* B.L. Kennedy
* Robin Rule
* Andy Clausen
* Daniel Essman
* Crawdad Nelson
& of course,
Jack Kerouac (in spirit)
Music by:
* Steve Vanoni
* Tom Fay
* Big Z
* & others
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:36:09 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rudy De Waele by way of
reeves@odyssey.com.au john reeves"
<isdm@INNET.BE>
Subject:
http://www.innet.net/brussels-arts/ISDM.html
Comments: To:
Bonnie Howard <HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
jo guys,
the 1st page of
isdm 2.0 is launched.
i've tested it
out with NS 2.0 but had problems with the gif-transparancy.
can you check
this out and tell me how it looks?
meanwhile, i'm
going on fixing those terrible new NS 2.0 extensions...
sys,
rudy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
vzw ISDM asbl
INTERACTIVE STUDY AND
DOCUMENTATION ON MULTIMEDIA
Rue Roosendaelstraat
146
1190 BRUSSELS
CONTACT:Rudy De
Waele
Tel/Fax:00 32 (0)2/346
65 01
isdm@innet.be
http://www.innet.net/brussels-arts/ISDM.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 15:35:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
http://www.innet.net/brussels-arts/ISDM.html
I don't know
about NetScape 2.0, but using Amerika-On-Line's so-called
Browser
(actually, it's not such a bad Browser), I am unable to scroll down
the entire page
once it's loaded. What I could see looked very nice, however!
(-:
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:50:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
Kerouac's more
obvious political leanings have a much more complex
background than
is answered simply by his being Catholic. That well-
rooted (or
root-rotted) Western Catholic background fell into
profound conflict
with his Eastern beliefs, and I think this tortured
him--tore him, in
fact, in two.
Even a lot of
what he wrote in ESCAPADE, or blathered over the
airwaves late in
his life was not so much the man espousing his true
and heartfelt
beliefs (though it wasn't purely a ruse, either), but
(and I don't know
if I can say it without resorting to the platitude,
true though it
remains) it was the man playing a character, part
real, part
invention borne of distrust for everything outside that
for years since
ON THE ROAD was published had tried to bully its way
into some crazy
interpretation of what he was about. And knowing it
all an illusion
anyway (something I think he did hold to, knowingly,
despite any
apparent Catholic/Buddhist contradiction or hero worship
of Wm Buckley or
anyone else), the role he acted out before a public
that he knew was
not real, was that of playing the ZEN LUNATIC.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:17:14 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:04:22 -0400
from
<HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
On Fri, 13 Oct
1995 17:04:22 -0400 Laurie Syrek said:
>Kerouac was a
French Canadian Catholic who objectified women and had strong
>feelings for
the conservative movement is the 60s. When it was convenient, he
>was liberal.
Otherwise, he could be a stodgy, close-minded man.
>
>Laurie
Kerouac may not
have held enlightened, modern attitudes towards women
but I think it's
wrong to say that he was closed minded.
It seems to me
that he was
incredibly open-minded, open-minded enough, for instance, to
embrace either
conservative or liberal ideas when he thought they were
right;
open-minded enough to accomodate his Catholicism to Buddhism;
open-minded
enough not to condemn beliefs or lifestyles that he did not
necessarily hold
valid. I like to think that Kerouac
posessed the
quality that F.
Scott Fitzgerald defined as genius:--the ability to hold
two contridictory
thoughts in the mind at the same time
without being
paralyzed by
them.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:57:47 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
>Kerouac's
more obvious political leanings have a much more complex
>background
than is answered simply by his being Catholic. That well-
>rooted (or
root-rotted) Western Catholic background fell into
>profound
conflict with his Eastern beliefs, and I think this tortured
>him--tore
him, in fact, in two.
I don't think
Kerouac saw any conflict between Catholicism and Buddhism.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:21:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil McCray
<pam3@POSTOFFICE2.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
>When it was
convenient, he
>was liberal.
Otherwise, he could be a stodgy, close-minded man.
As Clay Vaughan rightly puts it:
>>it was
the man playing a character, part
real, part
invention borne of distrust for everything outside that
for years since
ON THE ROAD was published had tried to bully its way
into some crazy
interpretation of what he was about.
Or, if I may, it points out that
Kerouac didn't live
inside rigid attributions and
characterizations,
but within his half-dreamy fluctuations
of spirited
sensitivity, seasoned with alcohol and
depression.
It's our fortune that he shared it all
with us.
Phil McCray
Cornell
University Archives
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:33:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
Without
belaboring the point, the kind of conflict I believe Kerouac
might've
experienced would be akin to those attachments that
Catholicism
espouses in doctrine and dogma (all of this, by the way,
embodied
physically AND spiritually in the figure of Memere, something
all its own that
was daunting to him, no doubt, beyond description),
and the relative
freedom one finds in the empty canvas of unfettered
experience,
direction unrelated to paths set up a priori, which
might accurately
characterize the Eastern mind.
Don't get me
wrong, the man had marvelous ability to balance, however
precariously, two
opposing thoughts simultaneously and without
apparent
confusion. I use the word APPARENT because, really, we'll
never know what
went on in that man's so complicated head.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:21:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Penguin Electronic
<ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>
Subject: kerouac ROMinbus -Reply
Comments: To:
ccook@tiac.net
The Jack Kerouac
ROMnibus ships to book and computer stores next week on October
23, 1995.
I promised I
would supply more information at the time of release, so here is
the press release:
(Warning: long
posting...)
A Jack Kerouac
ROMnibus
A CD-ROM for
Macintosh and Windows Computers
*The only way to
organize what you are going to say about anything is to
organize it on a grand and emotional scale
based on the way you*ve felt about
life all along.* *Jack Kerouac
Jack Kerouac is one of the most widely read
and influential writers in the
twentieth-century American canon, and his
novels have galvanized several
generations of artists and young Americans.
Between 1950 and 1968 Kerouac*s
prolific writing filled 14 novels, several
collections of poetry, and numerous
essays and articles. Kerouac*s work is currently enjoying a
widespread
comeback in popular culture, with tremendous
appeal to members of Generation X.
Now, Viking
thrusts Jack Kerouac into the forefront of the digital age with A
JACK KEROUAC ROMnibus CD-ROM (Penguin
Electronic; October 16, 1995; Dual
format; $49.95). This interactive project, co-published by
Mind in Motion and
Penguin Books USA, breaks new ground in
literary multimedia. Collaborating
with the Kerouac estate, writer Ralph
Lombreglia and documentary filmmaker Kate
Bernhardt have produced and directed a
comprehensive work no Kerouac student or
fan should be without. From Jack Kerouac*s
performance on
the *Steve Allen Show* to the extensive research functions
available for exploring Kerouac*s texts, and
with close to two hours of
exclusive high-resolution video and audio
footage of Kerouac and other Beat
generation writers, A JACK KEROUAC ROMnibus
explores the life and writing of a
cultural icon in a previously unimaginable
manner.
A JACK KEROUAC
ROMnibus contains:
* THE DHARMA BUMS
The complete text
of The Dharma Bums forms the heart of the program. Each page
of the novel is filled with textual, audio,
and video annotations. Clicking on
a highlighted word produces pop-up annotations
on everything from hopping a
freight to San Luis Obispo to Charlie
Parker. For example, click on the words
*San Luis Obispo* and a map and description
pops-up. Click on *Charlie Parker*
and a musical recording of Charlie Parker
plays alongside text explaining his
influence on Kerouac and his writing.
* THE KEROUAC
SAMPLER
Containing twenty-eight
performances of selections from Kerouac works, including
Mexico City Blues, Visions of Cody, The
San Francisco Blues, and The
Subterraneans, this selection includes
recordings of Kerouac, Beat biographer
Ann Charters, Michael McClure, and David Amram
and Graham Parker*some made
especially for this production.
* JACK AND THE
SAN FRANCISCO BEATS
A Beat family
tree maps out the romances, mentor relationships, breakups, and
cohabitation among key Beat figures. It also includes pictures and biographies
for each person.
* LIFE AND TIMES
A timeline
illustrates a year-by-year breakdown of events in Jack Kerouac*s
life, featuring expandable graphics and
simultaneous world events and literary
landmarks.
* THE GALLERY
This section
features a dozen original, never-before-published drawings and
paintings by Kerouac himself. The Kerouac slide show gives a guided tour of
his artwork, snapshots from the family photo
album, and photographs of and by
other Beats.
* THE ARCHIVE
Never-before-released
memorabilia from the Kerouac estate includes facsimiles
and transcripts from Kerouac*s journals,
correspondence, and personal
artifacts.
*EXTRAS
Jack Kerouac*s
*backpack* contains all of the audio and video clips found in the
CD-ROM, an essay on the Beat Generation by Ann
Charters, credits, sources, and
copyright information. Original music, composed especially for A
JACK KEROUAC
ROMnibus, serves as background for each
section.
In addition to
the main Kerouac menu, special interactive features have been
added to help the user research, obtain, and
save information:
The Picture
Cursor enlarges most pictures into full-screen graphics that can be
moved around the screen for easy viewing.
Bookmarks allow
the user to select certain passages from The Dharma Bums for
study and mark passages to return to later.
The Index allows
the user to browse the novel*s annotations alphabetically, by
chapter, or by three sub-topics, Buddhism,
Jack Kerouac, or People.
The Search Engine
instantly locates words or phrases throughout the text of The
Dharma Bums.
With its
easy-to-use format, A JACK KEROUAC ROMnibus will take you on an
unmediated, multimedia adventure into the
world of Jack Kerouac and the culture
he epitomized.
From the first train you hop with Ray Smith, to the last
mountain you climb with Japhy Ryder, you will
never experience Jack Kerouac and
the Beats quite the same way.
A JACK KEROUAC
ROMnibus is the second addition to an expanding series of quality
literary multimedia titles from Penguin
Electronic that includes The Crucible
CD-ROM and the forthcoming Of Mice and Men
CD-ROM (November).
# # #
A JACK KEROUAC
ROMnibus
Published by
Penguin Electronic
Dual Format: MPC & MAC
Suggested Retail
Price: $49.95
ISBN: 1-57395-002-5
UPC: 0-51855-00002-8
Technical
requirements:
Windows
> 486 or
Pentium processor
> Double-speed
or faster CD-ROM drive
> Windows 3.1
or later (including Windows 95)
> 256-color
SVGA monitor
> 8 MB RAM
> 2 MB hard
disk space available
> Speakers and
headphones
> 8- or 16-bit
Sound Blaster or compatible sound card
Macintosh
> LC III
series or better
> Double-speed
or faster CD-ROM drive
> System 7.0
or higher
> Color
monitor
> 8 MB RAM
> 2 MB hard
disk space available
For information
on Penguin Electronic CD-ROMs, send E-mail to
electronic@penguin.com or visit the Internet
site: http://www.penguin.com.
About the
Producers
A JACK KEROUAC
ROMnibus was developed with Penguin Electronic by Mind in Motion,
a North Carolina-based producer of multimedia
products, including general
interest titles in the areas of literature,
art, science and history.
The project was
spearheaded by the Boston-based husband-and-wife team of Ralph
Lombreglia, author of two short story
collections, Men Under Water and Make Me
Work, and Kate Bernhardt, a documentary
television and multimedia producer
whose credits include programs for the PBS
series *Nova,* *Odyssey,* and *The
Brain.*
This is their first joint project.
>>>>>>>>>>
I suggest posting
release dates for items such as these. I went
to a couple of
bookstores in Harvard Sq. in Cambridge, MA
and they were not familiar with
this title. I am not sure if it is not out yet or if they aren't planning to
get it, the staff at the 2 stores I went to were somewhat "in
the dark". Has
the
Kerouac CD-ROM been released?
Thanks,
Chuck C
<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 22:46:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tanya Hicks also looking for availible copies of
<Dharma1020@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cycles
excerpt from
interview with Ben Hecht(the Beat Generation CD Vol.3)
Hecht: Do you
like politics?
JK: No
Hecht: Do you
like the Republican party?
JK: I like
Eisenhower, as a man, he's a great man, a nice man
Hecht: Why do you
think he's a nice man?
JK: He's the kind
of man, you know, you'd like to shake hands with.
He's a nice man. You know he's a nice man. I don't really
think about
politics( I think this is what he says,
its somewhat mumbled)
Hecht: I adore
Mr. Eisenhower but I don't think he's a great man or even an
intelligent man.
JK: He probably
is, you know the American people probably don't realize what
he's doing.
Hecht: What's he
doing?
JK: I don't know,
we'll figure it out in 50 years. In 50
years you can look
back.
Hecht: I think he's one of the leaders of the Beat
Generation. (JK laughs)
I think he's turned his back on us, just as
you boys have.
JK: No, no
Hecht: Are you
going to vote the next election?
JK: I've never
voted. I shouldn't be proud of never having voted. But i never
have i don't know
what's the matter....
and the interview
goes on more about politics, etc.........
It's a great Box
Set, worthy of purchase...........................
if for nothing
but Ginsberg's reading of "America"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 09:41:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: cycles
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Mon, 16 Oct 1995
21:46:38 EST
In the _Kerouac_
movie, Burroughs stated that he always felt that Jack
was apolitical.
QUIT
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 18:36:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Karen L. Becker"
<DustyJ437@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
Has anyone seen
the new Volvo commercical with someone (who is that?) reading
from _On The
Road_?
Really, what has
this to do with Volvo? If there is one
car made in that
last 20 years
that I cannont picture J.K. driving, it would most decidedly be
a VOLVO! They're nice and safe, expensive, and totally
without soul.
Tehy're YUPPIE cars, in the words of a local
used car dealer.
Whose idea was
this? Am I the only one who cringes
everytime s/he sees this?
DustyJade
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 16:21:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bonnie Howard
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
"Karen L. Becker"
<DustyJ437@AOL.COM> wrote:
=Has anyone seen
the new Volvo commercical with someone (who is that?) reading
=from _On The
Road_?
Egads! And
yet...and yet...the pure irony of it forces me to crack a grin.
--Bonnie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 19:24:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J. Darren Bishop"
<URJTVAB@IUP.BITNET>
Organization:
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
I don't know...I
think that Volvos are a very revolutionary kind of car...right
up Jack's alley
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 19:31:17 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: car commercials
The least they
could have done was use a Chevy.
"See the U.S.A. in your Chevro
let...."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 16:54:47 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Eric Simpkins
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: car commercials
Hate to get off
the subject of the Beats, but I will get back on the subject
later. The
"they" work for volvo, so why on earth would they use a chevrolet?
Anyway, I am new
to this, and have so far just been reading, so I was wondering
if anyone ever
heard AG's "Holy Soul Jelly Roll?" I have the collection, and I
think it is
wonderful. I have only been into the Beats for about a year, and AG
is definitely my
favorite beat poet. But I was wondering if he, or any other
beat has other
CD's out. I love to read their poetry written down, but
something special
is added by hearing the poet read it aloud. Also, I was
wondering if AG
would be reading anytime soon in the SF Bay Area. Thanks for
any help you
could give.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 20:04:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J. Darren Bishop"
<URJTVAB@IUP.BITNET>
Organization:
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Subject: Re: kerouac ROMinbus -Reply
Has anyone ever
heard Jack's box set (I'm not really even sure what it is
called)? I saw it once at a bookstore, but didn't have
the money to buy it at
the time (or
probably now for that matter); nevertheless, I am curious to hear
anything about
it.
Also, not to get
off the subject of the Beats too far, but does anyone know
about any Camus
discussion groups? Just curious.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 17:31:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
I had a similar
reaction hearing the beatles Revolution selling Nike, Janis
Joplin's mercedes
Benz selling Mercedes Benz.
We ought to get
used to it.
Its just too bad
Kerouac wasn't alive to have this happen.
he could have
used the money.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 17:59:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Cal Godot <godot@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: Catholicism vs. Buddhism
Do I contradict
myself? Very well, I contradict myself:
I am large, I
contain multitudes.
--Walt Whitman
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:03:30 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
In your message
dated Thursday 12, October 1995 you wrote :
> My question
(if I can ever get to the point) pertains to the mystery behind
> the
movement, what exactly sparked so many.. can I say conservative
> minds to
look at themselves as a serious social influence?
The Bomb.
Budger of
history Brake of time You
Bomb
(Gregory Corso)
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
Flat 3
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 21:38:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac ROMinbus -Reply
I just purchased the Kerouac Box Set
collection from Borders. I am new to
the Beat scene
also and I suggest these recordings to anyone just getting
started as well
as the veterans in the field. It
consists of Jack reading
his own poetry
and prose. I suggest the purchase of the CD's because you can
find the
selections a lot easier. Good luck and enjoy!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:18:10 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Bowden
<tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization:
Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95101610294605@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> writes:
> Kerouac may
not have held enlightened, modern attitudes towards women
> but I think
it's wrong to say that he was closed minded.
It seems to me
> that he was
incredibly open-minded, open-minded enough, for instance, to
> embrace
either conservative or liberal ideas when he thought they were
> right;
open-minded enough to accomodate his Catholicism to Buddhism;
> open-minded
enough not to condemn beliefs or lifestyles that he did not
> necessarily
hold valid.
Ah, the remaking
of an American legend.
Kerouac adapted
the role of the vagabond from twenties hoboes and Han
Shan and Bohemian
legend and he partook of the eastern mystic craze
because everyone
else was doing that in those years and he absorbed the
arch-conservative
red-baiting slogans from William F Buckley because
this was a rich
Irish guy he admired who was loosely associated at times
with his gang at
Columbia. He grew weary of the road, he
in later life
claimed to be
just jiving Snyder with his buddhist role, and he was
quite bleary and
silly in explaining even his own sic transit.
As he
wrote quite
clearly in _Subterraneans_, `...you're an idea man and I'm a
wordslinger...'
He was the best
at what he did, which wasn't politics nor philosophy.
Anytime he tried
to extend that role, as say a public personality, he
fell flat on his
face.
>
...open-minded enough not to condemn beliefs or lifestyles that he did
> not
necessarily hold valid.
If _Dharma Bums_
is not a pure indictment of the vapid compromise which
was middle class
America in the fifties, such never existed.
And in
that same volume
there is suggested another paradox from all the holy
mystical
deploring of the Blue Eye and packaged soap `they secretly want
to eat in their
viney sweetsmelling bathrooms.' Gary
Snider, after
ridiculing phony
middle American ideals for extended passages, was too
embarrassed to go
with the boys into the roadhouse because it was too
dressy and they
had spent two days on Matterhorn without benefit of that
packaged
soap. His `Achille's heel', as K called
it.
> I like to
think that Kerouac posessed the quality that F. Scott
> Fitzgerald
defined as genius:--the ability to hold two contridictory
> thoughts in
the mind at the same time without being
paralyzed by them.
No evidence he
held even one for very long. It would
have been only
borrowed, after
all.
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
|
NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 21:29:15 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Ginsberg at Royal Albert Hall
Saw Ginsberg at
the Royal Albert Hall yesterday at 'Return of the Reforgotten' -
pretentious name
for Ginsberg's return to the RAH after 30 years. It was quite
something - Anne
Waldman was there as well, as was Paul McCartney, who jammed
with Allen at the
end. Was anyone else on the list there?... He plays at Heaven
Beneath the
Arches on Thursday.
Oh, we're talking
London, by the way.
Simon
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 07:35:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla <terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
In-Reply-To:
<951017183652_47058254@mail02.mail.aol.com>
I, too, have seen
this abhorrent ad, as well as the print version in
_Time_
magazine. I played Kerouac reading from
_OTR_ and _Visions of
Cody_,
accompanied by Steve Allen on piano, for my class the day after
finding the thing
in _Time_. We discussed the
commercialization, the
gruesome
commercialization, of dead "celebrities" and concluded that,
indeed, the last
car Kerouac would endorse would be an 850 Volvo wagon.
I was sickened to
hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell their
vehicles last
year on TV, but somehow this Volvo ad is more disgusting.
Perhaps I'm just
too much of a romantic, but this sort of thing turns my
stomach. JK might have worn khakis, but he damn sure
wouldn't have put
out $30k+ for a
family wagon.
Dan Terkla
Illinois Wesleyan
University
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:33:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac ROMinbus -Reply
Without foaming
at the mouth over the insights one gains listening to
JK's voice, his
attitude toward his work, himself, etc, I think all
would concur in
saying GIVE IT A LISTEN. There's more in this set of
recordings than
you would imagine, and there is something new to hear
in listening over
and over to the intimacy of the man's voice and
depth of
expression. Even comments you might think of as throwaway
have something in
them worth paying attention to.
And speaking of
recordings, has anyone heard and/or have reactions to
Terry Riley's
setting of some of Kerouac's MEXICO CITY BLUES? Last
Sunday on NPR (St
Paul Sunday), a group of singers directed by Paul
Hilliard, I
think, did an a capella version of some of them. And they
are recorded on
an album of Terry Riley's called SEVEN PASTORALES.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:03:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: other recordings, spoken or sung
I'd like to think
I keep up with recordings that are out there,
either spoken or
set-to-music pieces of the work of Beat writers, but
I'd be interested
in knowing what anyone else is listening to, or has
come across out
there.
There's that
Phillip Glass thing, HYDROGEN JUKEBOX, Steve Swallow's
record of music
set to the words of Robt Creeley (I forget the name
of the voice, is
it Carla Bley?), the Terry Riley disc, and that old
Mark Murphy jazz
thing, BOP FOR KEROUAC (old, and I'm not sure it's
weathered well, I
haven't given it a listen in a long while)... and
of course there
are those box sets people have been talking about. I'm
of two minds
about the BEAT GENERATION one, there is so much
embarrassing
nonsense, Time-mag mentality on it, that the real WORK
suffers in its
company.
I've not been
involved with this server long, and so it may be this
is one discussion
that's been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseum. I just
thought I'd throw
this out for responses....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:17:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVIS ALAN
<davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
In-Reply-To:
<951017183652_47058254@mail02.mail.aol.com>
Actually, JK
thought about making a Volvo commercial after he got famous,
but, alas, it
never happened. It would be a classic,
worth tracking
down, if it
existed.
Cheers.
Al
On Tue, 17 Oct
1995, Karen L. Becker wrote:
> Has anyone
seen the new Volvo commercical with someone (who is that?) reading
> from _On The
Road_?
>
> Really, what
has this to do with Volvo? If there is
one car made in that
> last 20
years that I cannont picture J.K. driving, it would most decidedly be
> a
VOLVO! They're nice and safe, expensive,
and totally without soul.
> Tehy're YUPPIE cars, in the words of a local
used car dealer.
>
> Whose idea
was this? Am I the only one who cringes
everytime s/he sees this?
>
> DustyJade
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:26:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: other recordings, spoken or sung
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 18 Oct 1995
10:03:10 EST
I agree with Clay
about the Beat Generation box set. It is a
curiosity... but
seems to take its cue from the Fred McDarrah ("Rent a
beatnik")
side of the tracks.
The _Dharma Bums_
(read by Ginsberg) and _On The Road_ (read by
Carradine) are
issued as books on tape. There is also some Cassady stuff
put out by Ken
Kesey's group... and hearing C's voice adds that other
dimension also
talked about regarding Jack's recordings. It's a voice I'
ve heard tell me
a thousand crazywonderful stories in a thousand bars.
I am interested
in knowing if any of the radio interviews that Jack did
up in Lowell
(with the Jarvis') exist on tape. Mark H. -- any lead on an
y of that?
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 15:27:51 CDT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: bs at AUC <i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
On Tue, 17 Oct
1995, Karen L. Becker wrote:
> Has anyone
seen the new Volvo commercical with someone (who is that?) reading
> from _On The
Road_?
>
> Really, what
has this to do with Volvo? If there is
one car made in that
> last 20
years that I cannont picture J.K. driving, it would most decidedly be
> a
VOLVO! They're nice and safe, expensive,
and totally without soul.
> Tehy're YUPPIE cars, in the words of a local
used car dealer.
>
The Volvo people
seem hell-bent on making fools of themselves. They are
also currently
running commercials where they use the old Byrds song
"Ballad of
Easy Rider" - imagine Peter Fonda/Dennis Hopper's characters
riding Volvos,
anyone....?!?
bs@AUC
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:47:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Volvo commercial
Remember that
'they' can't use _On The Road_ without the approval of the
Kerouac Estate.
That approval is never automatic - the use has to be
approved. So if
the Estate have decided to profit from every suggestion made
to them, no
matter how inappropriate, we can expect a lot more of this sort
of thing.
Nick W-W
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:43:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Volvo commercial
The grapevine has
it that the Sampas family has not been very ethics-
bound in its
decisions as to the sale or profit from JK's name and
work anyway. This
comes as no surprise, then, if the estate has
indeed sanctioned
the use of anything connected with the author and
his work to be
used in any whoring manner whatsoever. Talk about his
turning over in
his grave....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:10:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Susan V. Pulley"
<SVPULLE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>
Organization:
Accu-Sort Systems, inc.
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
> I was
sickened to hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell
their>
vehicles last year on TV,
Ummm - wasn't
that Joplin's voice asking for a Mercedes-Benz or did
the Mercedes
people "dub" that in? Maybe
it's unwise to be so sure
of what other
people want or think. Although, I do
agree about JK and
the Volvo.
It's a joy to
communicate!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:51:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
In-Reply-To: <7796472663@tel1.accusort.com>
Thanks to Susan
Pulley for slapping my virtual wrist re: Janis Joplin and
M-Benz. She did, indeed, sing, "Oh, Lord, won't
you buy me a
Mercedes-Benz." Guess I just got carried away with my
indignation over
the Kerouac/Volvo
ads. If memory serves, which it often
doesn't, Janis
did have a
Mercedes, one with flowers all over it.
Dan Terkla
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:05:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Subject: The whole Volvo thing...
Then again, and
this is a stretch, there could be some young kid out there
who sees the
commercial, likes what he/she hears and goes "Huh,
Kerouac...maybe I
should read that book..." I am in
no way supporting the
use of ON THE
ROAD by Volvo... it's just a thought.
Kirsten
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 20:46:51 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
Hey, I missed the
first part of this thread. Did it ever actually have
anything to do
with generational cycles? That phrase makes me think of
Malcolm Cowley's
book, *And I Worked at the Writer's Trade*. He develops his
theories of
generational cycles pretty thoroughly in that book.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:05:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Trip Toner <ElTripo@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
cs at AUC wrote
> Imagine
Peter Fonda/Dennis Hopper's character's riding Volvos...
I can see a
Fonda/Hopper Swedish tractor... lotsa trunk space for drugs...
(go Braves)
Trip
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:53:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
They make me feel
as good as those Gap ads. Hey, doesn't every cool hipster
wear khakis and
drive $20K cars?
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 17:12:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: car commercials
>Anyway, I am
new to this, and have so far just been reading, so I was
wondering
>if anyone
ever heard AG's "Holy Soul Jelly Roll?" I have the collection,
and I
I love the
poetry.. I'm afraid of the music...
>think it is
wonderful. I have only been into the Beats for about a year,
and AG
>is definitely
my favorite beat poet. But I was wondering if he, or any
other
>beat has
other CD's out. I love to read their poetry written down, but
They're other box
sets such as The Beat Generation (b/w cover, great basic
info inside on the
artists and the movements), includes a lot of jazz and
interviews
as well as the
beats themselves. Also, you'll find a lot of modernized and
original
Burroughs out there (Spare Ass Annie is wonderful), and one of my
fav's on the
fringe of the Beat movement, S.J. Bernstein.. some of the best
spoken word I've
heard in a long time.. there's more.. that's just off the
top
of my head..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:42:06 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Davis
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Does anyone know
of any interesting calls for papers?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:22:01 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Commercials
William Burroughs
is alive and well (maybe) and he "whored" himself to do a
shoe
commercial. I think Kerouac would have
been happy to take the money
from volvo. Also Henry Rollins has served as a corporate
shill for Apple. I
would suggest
giving up any romatic and idealistic notions of
non-commercialism. Kerouac didn't give his books away for free.
I think that
anything that
might make Kerouac more popular is good for us intersted in
reading his
works. There are still a lot of
unpublised works that I'd like
to see. Anything to increase his profile is going to
increase the likelihood
of a publishing
company to print more of his books.
Concerning the
type of car advertised, ie the volvo.
There is no cool or
beat car. The cars they drove in On the Road were as
staid and conservative
as a volvo. They didn't go driving around in souped up
hotrods. (Anyone
remember the
hotwheels Beatnik Bandit?).
I think the
Sampas family seems to be doing a good job handling the estate.
The notes at the
end of Book of Blues is very good. I
think it is rather
nice that the
family of Kerouacs first literary confidante (Sammy Sampas who
died in WWII) is
running things.
I have to say
though that I also had twinges of the type of disgust people
here have related
when I heard Revolution by the Beatles selling shoes and
Mercedes benz by
Joplin actually used to sell mercedes Benz.
I thought it
was the height of
irony that a song making fun of wanting a Mecedes Benz was
later used to
sell them. But irony is not a bad thing
and I think it puts in
perspective all
our little notions of social revolution or ohter hollow
ideologies.
Kerouac's
presence is appering in a lot of things nowadays. For example I saw
a book in the
humor section that had a caricature of Kerouac on the cover.
I'd say get used
to this sort of thing. And that it is
trivial.
Oh yeah.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:34:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Cal Godot <godot@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: Jack's Volvo, Bill's SHoes & Janice's
Mercedes
Look: none of you
knew Jack Kerouac, so you can't say whether or not he
would
drive/sell/promote a Volvo. And who cares anyway? I don't. It doesn't
demean the beauty
of "On The Road" to have Jack's image in a Docker's ad.
Who the fuck
cares what Madison Avenue does? Face it: Marketing folks will
do damn near
anything for a buck. They'd put pictures of headless infants
next to Volvo
photos if they thought it would sell a few more cars. (Look
at a business
college course list & see if you find any "Marketing Ethics"
classes. If you
do, let me know: I want a copy of that syllabus!)
If the devil were
real & worked in New York, he'd go into Marketing. He'd
come up with ads
where Jesus is driving a Mercedes, listening to a
book-on-tape of
"Tristessa" being read by O.J. Simpson. The ad would end
with Jesus
stopping the car at a McDonalds, getting out & high-5ing
Shaquille O'Neal.
And maybe some Charlie Parker would be playing in the
background.
Lighten up,
people: it's all an illusion, remember?
Cal McInvale JAZZ FLAVORED COFFEE
e-mail:
godot@wolfenet.com
WWW:
http://www.wolfenet.com/~godot/
--------------
What is most
appealing about young folks, after all, is the changes,
not the still
photographs of finished character but the movie,
the soul in
flux. -- Thomas Pynchon
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:36:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commercials
There might be
something to the Sampas family doing "the right thing"
recently, after
all they were instrumental in having the
PORTABLE JK, BOOK
OF BLUES, LETTERS, and SF BLUES published this year,
but until this
time the track record of the family has not been so
great. Case in
point: the treatment of Jan Kerouac (as rightful an
heir as can be
found), and also that of JK's nephew.... Also, those
less reliable
reports, that if true, tend to indict the position of
the family: that
of selling off JK's raincoat, and shoes, for large
amounts of
money... could this in fact be the case?
As far as the
commercial factor goes, it is inevitable that what CAN
be appropriated
WILL be; it's a fact of life, especially in this
country. Yes, get
used to it. It doesn't really have anything to
do with ANYTHING
those on this listserv see as important
anyway.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 11:18:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commercials
In-Reply-To: <418A3FB6A27@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
I'm afraid I
can't "get used to it" and am seriously concerned with the
growing ignorance
and apathy in my students regarding ways in which
advertising
affects, even creates, culture. Why
should we stop
questioning?:
"Are you going to let your emotional life be run by Time
Magazine?"
("America," _Portable Beat Reader_ 76). I try to teach my
students to ask:
"America this is the impression I get from looking in
the television
set, / America is this correct?" (77) and try to keep
asking myself.
Not caring, apathy, is dangerous.
Dan Terkla
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 10:05:10 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commercials
Concerning
comments made by Dan Terkla,
In my post I did
not advocate or imply apathy. I said I
thought it was good
for Kerouac's
writing to be used in this commercial.
The reasons were somewhat
selfish in that I
feel raising Kerouac's profile can only lead to more works
by him being made
available--something everyone here would proabably appreciate.
Maybe my
indifference to selling cars is apathetic, but I see nothing wrong
with not
objecting to people trying to sell their wares.
I would be offended
if his writing
were to be used for selling a particular political or social
agenda whatever
the ideology, but cars are fairly innocuous and incredibly
usefull.
Concerning the
following that was posted by someone whose name I don't have:
***************************************************************************
There might be
something to the Sampas family doing "the right thing" recently,
after all they
were instrumental in having the PORTABLE JK, BOOK OF BLUES,
LETTERS, and SF
BLUES published this year, but until this time the track record
of the family has
not been so great. Case in point: the treatment of Jan Kerouac
(as rightful an
heir as can be found), and also that of JK's nephew.... Also,
those less
reliable reports, that if true, tend to indict the position of the
family: that of
selling off JK's raincoat, and shoes, for large amounts of money
... could this in
fact be the case?
As far as the
commercial factor goes, it is inevitable that what CAN be
appropriated WILL
be; it's a fact of life, especially in this country. Yes, get
used to it. It
doesn't really have anything to do with ANYTHING those on this
listserv see as
important anyway.
****************************************************************************
I don't see
anything wrong in selling the raincoats or shoes. Who cares about
them. If some fools wanted to buy my old shoes or
my brother in law's old
shoes I would
sell them in a minute.
I agree that it
is sad that Jan kerouac was treated so poorly by her father.
But this is her
father's fault, no one elses. (Except
maybe the court's in
that as I recall
one of the provisions of the paternity suit brought by Jan
kerouac's mother
was that Jack was to have no contact with her or his
daughter.) She is
not his legal heir or even his legal daughter and simply
because people
share half their DNA that doesn't mean one has a claim on the
other for this
biological relationship. He was never
her father. She had
(has?) a step
father. I don't know if she was adopted
by him or not. She has
her mother's side
of the family. I think it was wrong for
Kerouac to act this
way to his
daughter. He did her wrong and ought to
have considered her, but
legally he wasn't
her father and they had no real relationship, which is
tragic.
Perhaps his
nephew has a stronger claim as he was part of Kerouac's family.
I would think
that Jack and his mother after Jack died should have made sure
that he was
included. The fault lays with them in
this regard. Unless of
course the claims
by Jan Kerouac and Paul Kerouac Blake (I think that is his
name) that the
Sampas family committed fraud is true.
But none of this
really matters. I came to this list
because I like kerouac's
works, his
ouevre. Before I knew anything about his
personal life I liked
his books. In a way all we're doing (maybe just me) is
gossiping.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 13:15:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commercials
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.951019111142.28393B-100000@titan.iwu.edu> from
"Dan Terkla" at Oct 19,
95 11:18:45 am
>
> I'm afraid I
can't "get used to it" and am seriously concerned with the
> growing
ignorance and apathy in my students regarding ways in which
> advertising
affects, even creates, culture. Why
should we stop
>
questioning?: "Are you going to let your emotional life be run by Time
>
Magazine?" ("America," _Portable Beat Reader_ 76). I try to teach my
> students to
ask: "America this is the impression I get from looking in
> the
television set, / America is this correct?" (77) and try to keep
> asking
myself. Not caring, apathy, is dangerous.
>
> Dan Terkla
>
regurgitated ads
from lost years... lost in the memories of those who
have long ago
died...lobotomized.....
some lame slogan
that sucks activity from the mind into this void.... this
television
land...
is there an
independent thought left in my dissillusioned mind?
am i a product of
the ads...the books...the ideas....
no...... too long
ago i knew... i was aware.... i have not lost that..
not yet...
not ever....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:20:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commercials
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.814122310.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
RE: Timothy
Gallagher's response:
I agree that
bringing Kerouac or any of the Beats more into the public
eye is a good
thing. I suppose that I still see most
things, including
ads for autos, as
politically valenced--or at the very least
ideologically
informed.
Thanks for the
response.
Cheers,
Dan Terkla
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 10:34:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Commercials
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.814122310.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu> from "Timothy K.
Gallaher" at Oct 19, 95
10:05:10 am
> I don't see
anything wrong in selling the raincoats or shoes. Who cares about
> them. If some fools wanted to buy my old shoes or
my brother in law's old
> shoes I
would sell them in a minute.
Yes,
exactly. Look at it this way -- let's
say you drop by the house
of a rich friend
and he says "check it out -- this is Beethoven's coat,
it's been with my
family for 100 years." I would
consider this pretty cool.
I think this is
just as good as depositing the coat behind a glass case in
some University
library.
The Sampas family
is sometimes not generous enough. For
instance the
new Penguin
CD-Rom has a huge (and fascinating) photo gallery with several
pictures of
Sampas family members, and not a single shot of Jan. This is way
wrong. However, they do seem to be doing a good job
as literary custodians,
and as someone
pointed out it is nice that the family of Kerouac's very
important friend
Sammy Sampas is in this position.
As for Volvo: to
me the most disappointing commercialization of all
time was when
Charles Schulz sold out the Peanuts characters to Met Life.
I'm still in
trauma over that. The Volvo thing is
nowhere near as
shocking.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 15:08:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Susan V. Pulley"
<SVPULLE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>
Organization:
Accu-Sort Systems, inc.
Subject: Re: Commercials
My logic, as
faulty as it may be follows:
Joplin's songs,
JK's books, even the Peanut's characters will be
around long, long
after the commercials are gone.
Advertising is
fleeting - it's
hardly a speck in time and not worthy of discussion or
disgust. If it's money that offends us, I agree with
one of the writer's
on this list -
the cd's and books cost plenty - an acclaimed artist today
makes money and
(probably) loves doing it. It was an
animated
thread though!
It's a joy to
communicate!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:32:20 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commercials
Susan Pulley
said:
*******************************************************
My logic, as
faulty as it may be follows:
Joplin's songs,
JK's books, even the Peanut's characters will be
around long, long
after the commercials are gone.
Advertising is
fleeting - it's
hardly a speck in time and not worthy of discussion or
disgust. If it's money that offends us, I agree with
one of the writer's
on this list -
the cd's and books cost plenty - an acclaimed artist today
makes money and
(probably) loves doing it. It was an
animated
thread though!
****************************************************************
I don't think
your logic is faulty at all. I concur.
Re Sampas
slighting of Jan Kerouac on the ROMnibus etc...
I agree. She is slighted and shouldn't be. She is being treated unfairly
albeit legaly in
terms of some things, but in terms of the humanity and her
place in all this
I must agree that she deserves more. I
read Baby Driver
and thought it
was very good. I didn't read Train
Song. I hope she is able
to write more and
that her health is OK. It seems there is
bad feelings
between her and
the Sampas which explains maybe why they have given her
short
shrift. I think though they should go
beyond this.
And if you saw
she was given short shrift on the ROMnibus that means you have
a copy of it and
it exists. Is it worth it? What's it like?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:24:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: hollowhed tribe
<hollohed@COIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Commercials
>I'm afraid I
can't "get used to it" and am seriously concerned with the
>growing
ignorance and apathy in my students regarding ways in which
>advertising
affects, even creates, culture. Why
should we stop
>questioning?:
"Are you going to let your emotional life be run by Time
>Magazine?"
("America," _Portable Beat Reader_ 76). I try to teach my
>students to
ask: "America this is the impression I get from looking in
>the
television set, / America is this correct?" (77) and try to keep
>asking
myself. Not caring, apathy, is dangerous.
>
>Dan Terkla
My dad had the
same problem. He taught television at
Capitol U (Ohio) for
a year before he
ran screaming to LA. Teaching it paid
the bills, but his
real problem is
that he despises most television, and the critical analysis
of Mad About You
did not enrich his life one iota and he doesn't like to
waste time in
that respect. He also found the apathy
of his students to be
a shock, akin to
being asleep and suddenly plunged into an icy...make that
acid...bath. He was used to the type of thinking that I
have, my sister
has and my
friends have (question everything), and at least for me, it was
directly
influenced by him. (Who put the first
Burroughs book into my
craving
claw? You guessed it.) He would come home shaking with anger and
outrage and
proceed to write angst-ridden, rich, multi-textured poems that
I hope he will
publish someday. But I want to tell you,
as I told him,
(and I'm sure you
know this) that there are just enough thinkers and people
who care to
continue to put a bug up the collective Corporate ass. I wish
there were more
and more, and I'm not ignoring the fact that many of my
peers can't read
more than what is contained in a panel of a Comic in one
sitting, but look
at it this way: We've got them (The Man, heh heh heh)
scared enough to
flail (albeit wrongly) into the frame of mind where they
would _want_ to
appeal to anyone who would be into JK's work...I'm not sure
how I feel about
all of this. Burroughs, Dennis Hopper,
etc. are still
alive and have
made money with their spooky pates on the blue screen and I
have little
question that JK would do the same if he were alive. But I
like it when
artists make money because they then have a little more
breathing room to
create. (Not that Dennis Hopper wasn't
always an actor,
but he seemed to
be a little more...who knows...) I know
a friend and
subversive artist
who had a song of his used for a VW commercial but didn't
get a cent out of
it himself. If some company is going to
abandon creative
thought and
anal-rape someone else's ready-made vibe, I would at least hope
they'd give them
a financial reach-around so they can make something else
that doesn't have
a Corporate Logo stamped over it. Just
some
thoughts...sorry
that they're a little disjointed. Take
care all.
sister zuzu
ps: When I see
Peter Fonda in a commercial, I'm wiping the tears of dismay
from my cheeks
and selling my Biker videos FOR PROFIT.
$$$$$
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:37:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: RAH reading
------- Forwarded
Message Follows -------
Date sent: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:30:55 GMT
From: Simon Okotie <simon@okotie.demon.co.uk>
Send reply
to: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
To: CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
Subject: Re: RAH reading
Hi Clay
> Simon, I'd
be interested in knowing some of AG's remarks during the
> reading,
what was said offhand, any particular slant to his
>
"playlist"...
He started with a
few 'american sentences', one of which was 'I recall Neal's
twenty three year
old corpse as I cum in my hand'. Quite striking. The general
feeling that came
across was that here was an old and wise man who, looking back
at the sixties,
felt that some things hadn't turned out the way he might have
wanted. He
mentioned something about renouncing material possesions 'but here I
am in old age
with mountains of books and papers'. Almost dead homosexual
genius is what
came across.
> also, what
would McCartney bring with him to "jam" with AG?
In physical
terms, Paul brought his guitar with him to jam with Allen. Allen
read verses of
poetry whilst Paul strummed; in between, during the 'bridge' Paul
would play a few
rocky riffs. They acted liked old friends.
Hope this is
interesting. My memory fails me. Feel free to try and haul some
more stuff from
it.
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 17:00:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Commercials
In this crazy
world, I find myself trying to justify many things. I shop at
the GAP, I eat
Froot Loops for breakfast, and on days when I have school, I
watch Headline
News during my luch hour. I have come to expect certain
aspects of my
life to be simplified, defined, and explained to me. This is
pathetic, I know.
When I see something like the Volvo/Kerouac ad, I'm struck
by how two very
separate worlds seem to collide. I'm watching 90210, and in
the middle of all
this stupidity, a great piece of literature is being read
on Tv. In my
mind, this is wonderful. Sure, it's a bastardization of
Kerouac's work,
but it's also a bastardization of TV's normal advertising
campaigns. I am
happy to see/hear Kerouac on television. It brings a weird
sense of
recognition to my day.
I feel a lot
younger than most people on this list, and I must admit that I
struggle with the
apathy many of the list-subscribers have described. What
saves me, though,
is the fact that I can recognize something like ON THE ROAD
when it is being
read on the television. So, I feel a little better.
I'm going to get
eaten alive for these comments, but I needed to put this all
in perspective.
Many of us feel like scholars and intellectuals, but I can't
be the only one
who knows the different plots on Melrose Place.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:07:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: the t.v. thing
I quote from a
movie I recently saw:
"YOU FUCKING
PEOPLE"
The only reason
any of you give a shit about these t.v. commercials and
money and so on
is because you have let yourselves fall into the trap of
watching
t.v. None of this would make one bit of
difference if everyone
was not so
obsessed with the damn thing. You got
your priorities jacked
up.
As to the letter
saying that people do not read enough and that there are
not enough
thinkers I beg to differ. I think people
are just hanging
around in the
right spots. I know many people who
write and who read and
I think the
problem is nobody understand them and so they just say there
is no one out
there who does read or write, but you are all wrong and you
are all too
obsessed with your little t.v.s.
Here is a quote
from an author who will never get published because no one
understands nor
wants to listen anymore:
>And if you
came up to me and was pretty and a girl I
>would buy a
rose and a pint of ice cream and kiss you until the
>sun rise came
up on a dune. And if you are a guy and
came up
>to me and
said "Lets get drunk" I would buy you the first shot
>of tequila
and keep em rollin. And so dont sit on
your ass
>anymore you
have read enough. Get yourself up and
out and
>find me and
if I got a dollar to my friggin name I will show you
>some
fun. And I will talk shit and tell you
how great Jack was
>and how great
Natalie is and I will act like an ass and forget
>your
name. But who cares?, because at least
you wont be at
>home wasting
your life on some fucking t.v. which aint got a shit
>to say back
to you. Get out there and howl at the
moon. Kiss
>someone. Make someone's night fun. And as for me, I'll be
>waiting. And if I tell you I am gonna do something you
better
>damn well be
ready because I am sure as shit gonna do it!
> Or you could go to bed and dream. . .
and just dream!
__Paupers Death In
Amerika__ Jack Mercheant
Who cares anyway? By the end Jack Kerouac was so out of it all
he wanted to do
was die because the people treated him like such total
shit anyway. I dont think he ever cared about the money
either because
all he wanted to
do was LIVE and find some reason for existence or non
existence as he loved
so much in Buddhism.
and FUCK volvo
too. Jack never drove any car. Now NEAL hell, he would
have driven a
YUGO as long as it went over 100 miles per hour.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 18:17:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<rpeltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
>> I was
sickened to hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell
>their>
vehicles last year on TV,
>
>Ummm - wasn't
that Joplin's voice asking for a Mercedes-Benz or did
>the Mercedes
people "dub" that in? Maybe
it's unwise to be so sure
>of what other
people want or think. Although, I do
agree about JK and
>the Volvo.
>
"Ummm" Janis wasn't really asking for a Mercedes
Benz. She was being
ironic. We call that satire.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 15:35:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Mercedes-Benz
In-Reply-To:
<199510192217.SAA06594@mail.trincoll.edu> from "Robert
Peltier"
at Oct 19, 95 06:17:29 pm
With all this
talk about Joplin and Mercedes-Benz, isn't anybody
going to mention
that the words for the song originated with a poem
written by beat
poet Michael McClure?
Jeez, I have to
do all the work around here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 15:42:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Commercials
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.814131140.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu> from "Timothy K.
Gallaher" at Oct 19, 95
12:32:20 pm
> And if you
saw she was given short shrift on the ROMnibus that means you have
> a copy of it
and it exists. Is it worth it? What's it like?
Yes, Penguin sent
me a copy -- one of the only perks I get for devoting
my entire waking
life to my web site.
As an archive,
it's outstanding -- great photos, many never before
seen, many
letters, journal entries, manuscripts, etc.
As far as
the technology
goes it's solid -- only crashed once in two hours on
my PC, which is
much better than most CD-Roms. Seems to
be based
on Macromedia
Director, in case anybody cares.
The full text of
Dharma Bums is there, complete with hypertext links.
There's a map of
the relationships among SF Beat writers, which is
interesting,
though I wouldn't exactly concur that Jack Kerouac and
Allen Ginsberg
were "romantically linked."
Not without Jack being
very, very drunk,
anyway. Nor would I agree that Jack and
Neal
were
"broken-off" -- I don't think that captures the complexity.
The CD-Rom is
definitely worth getting if you're into the subject.
As immersed in
Kerouac's works as I am, though, it's hard for me
to see it the way
a beginner or intermediate reader might.
It
didn't really
change or expand my view of K in any particular way,
but then others
might find things I didn't notice. So
let's hear
some more
opinions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:18:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Sallee <Censorus@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
you have just
clumped k. into five categorical box batches 3 of which are
ideological 2
national(istic) AND NONE VERY INTERESTING. if the man is worthy
of discussion....
and not even on his own terms, mind you... don't you think
it behoves us to
make an attempt to do so employing , if not meaningful, at
least exciting
vital or whole- carcass-made- up- from-brain-blood terms and
categories. I
guess the only reason i read this list is in hope of hearing
something i've
not before that could plausably be entertained even ...or not.
is that odd?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:18:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Sallee <Censorus@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
you have just
clumped k. into five categorical box batches 3 of which are
ideological 2
national(istic) AND NONE VERY INTERESTING. if the man is worthy
of discussion....
and not even on his own terms, mind you... don't you think
it behoves us to
make an attempt to do so employing , if not meaningful, at
least exciting
vital or whole- carcass-made- up- from-brain-blood terms and
categories. I
guess the only reason i read this list is in hope of hearing
something i've
not before that could plausably be entertained even or not. is
that odd?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:24:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: JK
in reference to
(but not necessarily context of) the following text
written a few
messages ago by tim bowden <tcbowden@nerdnosh.org> with
reference to JKs
lifestyle and his (rapidly re-emerging) mythical
status
>He was the
best at what he did, which wasn't politics nor
>philosophy. Anytime he tried to extend that role, as say
a
>public
personality, he fell flat on his face.
and also to the
following text
>Lighten up,
people: it's all an illusion, remember?
written by cal
godot <godot@wolfenet.com> regarding marketing
methods, i would
like to add a stoned bullshit thread that comes
to mind.
in a book called
'sophies world' by jostein gaarder (highly
recommended) the
author explains his abstract illustration of
what philosophy
really is and means. the first time i
read it
i immediately
thought JK. the text is
>a greek
philosopher who lived more than two thousand years ago
>believed that
philosophy had it's origin in man's sense of wonder.
>man thought
it was so astonishing to be alive that phiosophical
>questions
arose of their own accord.
>it is like
watching a magic trick. we cannot
understand how it
>is done. so we ask: how can the magician change a
couple of white
>silk scarves
into a live rabbit?
>a lot of
people experience the world with the same incredulity as
>when a
magician suddenly pulls a rabbit out of a hat which has just
>been shown to
be empty.
>in the case
of the rabbit, we know the magician has tricked us.
>what we would
like to know is just how he did it. but
when it comes
>to the world
its somewhat different. we know that the
world is
>not all
sleight of hand and deception because here we are in it,
>we are part
of it. actually, we are the white rabbit
being pulled
>out of the
hat. the only difference between us and
the white
>rabbit is
that the white rabbit does not realize it is taking part
>in a magic
trick. unlike us. we feel we are part of something
>more
mysterious and we would like to know how it all works.
>p.s. as far as the white rabbit is concerned, it
might be better
>to compare it
with the whole universe. we who live
here are
>microscopic
insects existing deep down in the rabbit's fur.
the
>philosophers
are always trying to climb up the fine hairs of the
>fur in order
to stare right into the magician's eyes.
'a lot of people
experience the world with the same sense of
incredulity as
when a magician suddenly pulls a rabbit out of a hat
which has just
been shown to be empty'...reminded me of the
incredulity he
expresses when describing passing landscapes...or the
weather...or
colors...or food in bakers windows...or his close
friends...or the
streets he walked along...slept upon...a charlie
parker song...and
even talking all night long...
he invokes a
sense of wonder (mystical) better than no other author
i have read. i would guess he knew more about life, its
experiences
and illusions
than most academic philosophers of his generation
(excepting
possibly wittgenstein).
i personally
think he was a very good philosopher, not in a
traditional
"which came first the chicken or the egg" sense, but in
a sense of
"i need to find *my* truth, no matter how long it takes
or how far i need
to travel". he and his like created
a whole
new philosophy
for _a generation_. two generations
before my birth!
don't get me
wrong, i'm not claiming JK should be remembered for
his thoughts on
philosophy or politics. and what i'm
referring to
is quite out of
context to text i've quoted from tim & cal, but his
philosophy for
life was unique, poetic and envious. i
think he
personally knew
of the 'rabbit and the magic trick' and went 'high'
up the rabbits
hair in search of the great magician. he
wasn't
content to bury
himself into the rabbits fur like the rest of society.
JK: 'it no longer
makes me cry and die and tear myself to see her go
because
everything goes away from me like that now - girls, visions,
anything, just in
the same way and forever and i accept lostness
forever. everything belongs to me because i am poor'.
a wise man once
said 'the definition of intellect is the ability
to understand
abstract ideas'. socrates said 'one
thing only i
know, and that is
that i know nothing'. JK said 'i accept
lostness
forever. everything belongs to me because i am poor'
- a valid
philosophy,
although maybe a little to abstract for an e-mail
message, still
thereyougoforafirstmessage on a (so far) brilliant
mail-list.
as the great cal
godot says earlier 'Lighten up, people: it's all an
illusion,
remember?'.
joe
newcastle upon
tyne
uk
e-mail: 100106.1102@compuserve.com
or joe.carney@unn.ac.uk
pps, if anyone's
still reading, are there any beat poetry mailservers?
i like to write
poetry, mainly of my beat(ish) lifestyle and would be
very much
interested to read others. as a flavour
i have included one
for anyone mildly
interested:
mother earth, father sky...
on piss-stained seats in the cardboard room we
slept thru noon,
the black swan still burning,
transparent in the winterlands,
no 'superman',
no 'think therefore i am',
as agnostic ideas,
spew cyber careers,
in this digital boom,
have we kissed the moon too soon?
on piss-stained seats in the cardboard room we
dreamt thru noon,
the black swan still burning,
biblically stoned in the hinterlands,
no 'thank you',
no 'have a nice day',
as the business dreams,
burst open the seams,
of our chemical dreams,
will we run to the sun fore we burn?
on piss-stained seats in the cardboard room we
died at noon,
the black swan still burning,
bright white,
in the moonlit sky,
high over the plainlands,
the father sky,
the all seeing eye,
of this ale-stained
tearcolored man...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
- the area
breathes; it seems to want to tell something intelligible
to me - JK
- the internet
breathes; it seems to want to tell something
intelligible to
me - joe
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:32:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mercedes-Benz
Almost, Levi -
The Mercedes-Benz
song wasn't originally a poem by McClure -
McClure wrote it
specifically as a song during the time he was writing other
songs for a
country group named Wildflowers. McClure, after meeting Bob
Dylan, got the
songwriting bug and started a music group with Freewheelin'
Frank and his
friend Montana.
See ya,
Betsy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 21:08:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Sallee <Censorus@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cycles
the postwar
think-poles of international politics in america have been
characterized as
the europe firsters and the asia firsters.thay was all
anti-communists
really but threww this tar ("communism") at each other til
the whole place
was a mess. this polar structure can be applied to so many
social formations of that time so long aback - Tom
Wolf for 1 used a
permutation of it
in" Electric koolaid...." to highlight the tend among
Keroac-cassidy
beats and proto-hippies to turn away from the european
elements in
American culture toward a true-new America or by extension to an
asian stance...
well you can see where i'm agoinrightalong here- Burroughs by
comparison to
Keroac is most definaerly "european bound". it is curious to
note how Eisenhower
was tarred by the asia firsters as had been True man but
was i think
no more the one or the other certainly
not of the Henry Luce
purse suassion.
So with Keroac, while not Asia bound in the degree of
Ginsburg or
Snyder he was tarred as every oppositions fellow traveler and
travel he
did..from mind germs like his came
boddisatvas munching on
burgers-the
America that niether Ginsburg or burroughs could embrace with out
decsending... the
hippies i knew and almost loved.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 22:32:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Douglas Karpp
<GustoEater@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Volvo commercial
At the risk of
being the only right winger / business guy here. . .
Who really cares
wether they use on the road, it seems oddly appropriate to
me anyway. You read the book, you enjoyed the book, some
patterned
themselves after
the book. . .why don't you get yourself a volvo and enjoy
the road in
luxury.
The idiocy of
that statement not withstanding, I submit to you all. . .
who cares it's
just a commercial
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 23:06:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Karen L. Becker"
<DustyJ437@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Coppola/Cassady
>But it's a
hell of a lot of fun to fantasize about casting: Brad Pitt as
>NC, yes, a la
his pathological cowboy in T/Louise;
Absolutly! I can't think of a better person for the role,
considering that
Mr. Pitt is from
the mid-west and has some of that pathologicial Neal Cassady
charm in real
life. The question is would he even
consider playing the part?
I think I too
would have fallen victim to N.C.'s over-stated charm. I'm like
Sal Paradise in
the beginning of _On The Road_ "But
then they danced down
the streets like
dingledodies, and I shambled after as I've been doing all my
life after people
who interest me, becuase the only people for me are the mad
ones..."
Later
DustyJade
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 23:06:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Karen L. Becker"
<DustyJ437@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: dream film
>I like the
following for key roles in Coppola's "On The Road" film:
>
>Brad
Pitt..........Cassady
>Andy
Garcia........Kerouac
>Gary
Oldman........Burroughs
>Gary
Sinise........Ginsberg
>Steve
Buscemi......Huncke
>Julianne
Moore.....Carolyn
>Drew
Barrymore.....LuAnn
Sounds good to
me!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 00:26:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: dream film
>>Brad
Pitt..........Cassady
Somebody defend
this one for me, being that I'd rather see
Brad Pitt stay
where he is in his carreer (not a big fan mind you).
I just can't see
him in anything but his pot-head character from
_True Romance_..
>>Andy
Garcia........Kerouac
Not bad on this
one.. I'm impressed!
>>Gary
Oldman........Burroughs
Love Gary to
death, but Burroughs? Hmmm... He could pull
it off, but I'm
just not sure he's the best pick.. Tommy Lee
Jones? Talented..
might look good in fidora... (smile). Mmm,
there has to be
someone better..
>>Gary
Sinise........Ginsberg
Hmm.. another one
I need defended. Mind you, I haven't
seen him in
anything but.. Forrest Gump?
>>Steve
Buscemi......Huncke
Great call..
>>Julianne
Moore.....Carolyn
>>Drew
Barrymore.....LuAnn
>
>Sounds good
to me!
The rest I like
too.. Drew Barrymore! Nice way to round off
the cast..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 00:43:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Katerie Prior <kadaca@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: dream film
In-Reply-To: Your message
<3087220E@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com> of Fri, 20
Oct 1995 00:26:18 -0400
>>>Gary
Sinise........Ginsberg
>Hmm.. another
one I need defended. Mind you, I haven't
>seen him in
anything but.. Forrest Gump?
Gary Sinise is
actually a terrific actor, and as much as I liked
"Forrest
Gump" (irony), the film did not
give him the opportunity to
show his
talents. Sinise was in the latest
version of "Of Mice and
Men," and I
think directed it. He's in HBO film of "Truman," coming out
or already shown
(I don't know, I don't have cable) I
believe he has a
theater company
and has done most of his acting on stage.
I know this is
sort of an old post, and I'll probably be flamed for
this, but I'm not
sure if Sinise would be a good Ginsberg. Granted, with
makeup, he looks
a lot like Truman in the HBO film, but he seems more
all American,
like JK, than Ginsberg. However, he is an actor......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:58:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire
<maguirem@CA.CCH.COM>
Subject: Tidbit from rec.music.dylan
The following two
messages appeared yesterday on the Dylan newsgroup:
(1) From WITH
WILLIAM BURROUGHS/A REPORT FROM THE BUNKER by Victor Bockris:
BOCKRIS: When did
you first meet Bob Dylan?
BURROUGHS: In a
small cafe in the Village, around 1965. A place where they
only served wine
and beer. Allen had brought me there. I had no idea who
Dylan was, I knew
he was a young singer just getting started. He was with
his manager,
Albert Grossman, who looked like a typical manager, heavy
kind of man with
a beard, and John Hammond, Jr. was there. We talked about
music. I didn't
know a lot about music-a lot less than I know now, which
is still very
little-but he struck me as someone who was obviously
competent in his
subject. If his subject had been something that I knew
absolutely
nothing about, such as mathematics, I would have still received
the same
impression of competence. Dylan said he had a knack for writing
lyrics and
expected to make a lot of money. He had a likeable direct
approach in
conversation, at the same time cool, reserved. He was very
young, quite
handsome in a sharp-featured way. he had on a black
turtleneck
sweater.
(2) [The above]
reminds me of the time I asked Allen if I could shake his
hand. Tucking his
NY Times under his arm, he extended a shaky hand & said,
"I don't
know what good it will do." He was right. This also reminds me of
a line in a song
I remember hearing a lot. Something like "don't look
back..."
It's an old song. Not as old as Burroughs of course, but it was
long ago... &
almost far away. It was something about an artist...with no
place to fall...
------------
I was rather
moved by this second post, but I'm not sure what the sender
means by "no
place to fall" -- certainly not that these three are
washed-up as
artists. Truth is, they've all demonstrated astonishing
resilience.
What has always
appealed to me, I think, is the way the beat community
remains grounded
and reachable. While Jack, Neal etc., were set-off from
mainstream
society on principle, they've never, even in death, given the
impression of
being removed from us as readers. The writer of the second
post is obviously
wistful about times past, but it only comforts me to
know that
Burroughs, Ginsberg and Dylan have continued through the years
with us. This is
life, there is no place to fall except in death, and I'll
be lonesome when
they go.
Just some
thoughts on a Friday morning.
_________________________________________________________________________
M. Maguire
Toronto, Canada
CCH Canadian
Ltd.
http://www.ca.cch.com
_________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:04:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: shoes or shorts or whatever...
Gosh, when I
brought up the matter of the Kerouac estate selling off
shoes and
raincoat, I did so NOT to say there was something
intrinsically
wrong with THAT, but to use those transactions and
compare them with
what appears to be questionable behavior: the
intransigence of
the estate for such a long while. While the estate
seemed certainly
willing to sell off such peripheral items as
clothing, the
real work, the manuscripts, were being held back
despite numerous
requests to publish from many corners. For example,
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti has expressed his dismay a number of times at
his inability to
publish manuscripts he actually had in hand, despite
his requests,
that were given to him by Kerouac with a tacit desire
to have them
published, only to have that quashed time and again by
the family, for
whatever reason. This certainly calls into question
the desire by the
estate to bring to light the work, except possibly
for the highest
dollar. This, on top of the selling of personal items
suggests that
Kerouac's LITERARY reputation seemed not so much a
concern as that
of proffering the man as myth and those items as
artifacts of that
myth. I will grant you, though, that the buyer buys
into that fallacy
as soon as the money is plopped down.
I think none of
us disagrees on the unfortunate circumstances that
seem to surround
the estates of many artists. Indeed, there has been
much to suggest
that this sort of thing happens almost as a matter of
course. Look at
the estates of such artists as Mark Rothko, where
criminal fraud
played such a part, and these days the possibility
that many of the
late works of de Kooning are not his at all but are
by some
apprentice or possibly the man's daughter. The Sampas family
cannot be accused
of anything so heinous as this, but the appearance
that their
interest may have lain (at one point anyway) elsewhere than
with the literary
reputation of the person they were charged to
"represent",
was the only observation I was trying to make.
Clay Vaughan
clv100u@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:44:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Davis
<CSD95001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Casting...
Hate to beat a
dead horse, but wouldn't casting all of these famous, good-
looking beautiful
people for _On The Road_ be rather antithetical to the
idea of those
living on the edge of society. Something about Brad Pitt as
a man struggling
against the constraints of a traditional lifestyle just
doesn't ring true
to me.
Were it not for
marketing and capital resources, a group of unknowns would
be the ideal
cast.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:09:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: shoes or shorts or whatever...
Re shoes and
shirts and Ferlinghetti and the Sampas.
Who knows what
here for sure, I want to point out another possible viewpoint.
Ferlinghetti is
the fellow who called Kerouac "just another stumblebum on
the scene."
The Sampas family
were lifelong friends of kerouac from his childhood on.
This relationship
never faltered even after Jack's best friend's death.
Later he even
married into this family. They loved him
before he was
famous, after he
was famous and after he was messed up later in life. It
seems more likely
that "Kerouac's LITERARY reputation" is of more concern
to the Sampas
family and that Ferlinghetti is the one simply out to make
some more money
(Ferlinghetti could probably use it).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 19:28:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Vicente Garcia Pineiro
<vgarcia@GOLIAT.UGR.ES>
Subject: America
dan terkla......if you want to teach
your students about
america.......please.....first.....teach
them america is not usa only.....i
don't know if
even beats learned this......
you have stolen a
name: america.....
your capitalists steal everyday to
central and south
america.....please.....at
least allow another peoples of america call
themself
americans......
a lot of people don't get images of
america on tv......they get
their images of
america in their lifes.....in his/her stomachs.....his/her
hungry is
american....his/her ignorance is american......his/her misery is
american......his/her
death is american.....
the destruction of amazonia is
american....
please......your north american navels
are not so important.....
you can believe me.....
some beats knew this.....some of
them.....
if you want to know about the image of
america......send your
students to ask
in guatemala.....cuba......el
salvador.....chile......peru.....bolivia.....
----at least..... i think they can know
in what continent are these
countries----
these peoples know on america much more
than your students......i am
sure.....if you
don't agree.....do a test.....try it....
vic
una pregunta: hablo ginsberg alguna vez
contra el bloqueo a cuba??
does he do it now??
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:18:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Susan V. Pulley"
<SVPULLE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>
Organization:
Accu-Sort Systems, inc.
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
> >> I
was sickened to hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell
>
>their> vehicles last year on TV,
> >
> >Ummm -
wasn't that Joplin's voice asking for a Mercedes-Benz or
did
> >the
Mercedes people "dub" that in?
Maybe it's unwise to be so
sure
> >of what
other people want or think. Although, I
do agree about JK
and
> >the
Volvo.
> >
>
>
"Ummm" Janis wasn't really
asking for a Mercedes Benz. She was
being
> ironic. We call that satire.
Ummm - I think
the irony had to do with her asking the Lord for a car
(as we know, the
Lord does not grant material wishes)- I was told she
DID own a
Mercedes - and, I have a degree in English - quite familiar
with satire,
thank you.>
It's a joy to
communicate!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:57:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Susan V. Pulley"
<SVPULLE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>
Organization:
Accu-Sort Systems, inc.
Subject: Re: the t.v. thing
This list is
pretty sophisticated (at least it was).
The discussions
were informative,
intelligent, and very focused. I don't
even mind the
debates - but, I
think we're bordering on out and out flaming - which
can (and is)
starting to be offensive. I don't think
we need to be so
defensive to make
a point.
It's a joy to communicate!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:03:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: the t.v. thing
In-Reply-To: <A4633A05AB@tel1.accusort.com> from
"Susan V. Pulley" at Oct 20,
95 08:57:54 am
>
> This list is
pretty sophisticated (at least it was).
The discussions
> were
informative, intelligent, and very focused.
I don't even mind the
> debates -
but, I think we're bordering on out and out flaming - which
> can (and is)
starting to be offensive. I don't think
we need to be so
> defensive to
make a point.
>
>
funny...i was
thinking that nicholas is the first person in this thread
to speak the
words that i am not eloquent enough to express... offensive?
i find this talk
of obsession with the lobotomy box and what it
"means"
to be insulting to anyone who has the mind to turn the damn
thing off and
walk out the door....
wake up... it's
TELEVISION.... hello?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's a joy
to communicate!
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:04:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: America
In-Reply-To: <199510201858.SAA25697@goliat.ugr.es>
Vicente Garcia
Pineiro:
Thanks for the
cautionary note regarding "America."
I do, in fact, teach
my students--or,
more precisely--get them to talk about, what the term
means. I think Ginsberg in his poem,
"America," and certainly in "Howl"
is concerned with
US hegemony, or at least in the abuses of the military
industrial
complex:
Moloch whose blood is running money!
Moloch whose fingers
are ten armies! Moloch whose
breast is a canni-
bal dynamo! Moloch whose ear is a smoking
tomb! ("Howl" 21)
Thanks again for
the note.
Dan Terkla
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:53:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Heeg <mheeg@SMTPINET.ASPENSYS.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
"[A]s we know, the Lord does not
grant material wishes", but what type
of wishes does the lord grant? It seems a rather naive statement on
your part. And why through around what
type of education you have-just
curious.
( I have a degree in history and secondary education, for
whatever reason.)
______________________________
Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re:
Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
Author: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at SMTPINET
Date: 10/20/95 2:46 PM
> >> I
was sickened to hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell
>
>their> vehicles last year on TV,
> >
> >Ummm -
wasn't that Joplin's voice asking for a Mercedes-Benz or
did
> >the
Mercedes people "dub" that in?
Maybe it's unwise to be so
sure
> >of what
other people want or think. Although, I
do agree about JK
and
> >the
Volvo.
> >
>
>
"Ummm" Janis wasn't really
asking for a Mercedes Benz. She was
being
> ironic. We call that satire.
Ummm - I think
the irony had to do with her asking the Lord for a car
(as we know, the
Lord does not grant material wishes)- I was told she
DID own a
Mercedes - and, I have a degree in English - quite familiar
with satire,
thank you.>
It's a joy to
communicate!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 21:45:12 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
In message <A4BC8D3DA4@tel1.accusort.com>
BEAT-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu writes:
>
> Ummm - I
think the irony had to do with her asking the Lord for a car
> (as we know,
the Lord does not grant material wishes)
To accept this as
true, we have to accept that Janis Joplin believed in this
entity Susan
chooses to call "the Lord", and also that, so believing, she
believed that
"the Lord" does not grant material wishes.
Am I alone in
finding this difficult? Does anyone know
of any hard
evidence that
Janis Joplin was a believer? And this kind of believer?
--
John Lynch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 18:28:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: TV, Volvos, Dreams, & Jack
I have to confess
that I have actually found this thread (more like a
tapestry) quite
interesting, with a broader range of opinions and
perspectives
reflected therein than I might have expected. Something I think
this thread has
brought out is the schizophrenic nature of this mail-group.
On the one hand,
it is dedicated to literary history - tracing the careers
and past doings
of a rather anarchic group of mid-20th century writers
referred to
collectively (and not always accurately) as "The Beats". on the
other hand, all
of the participants are living in the present moment, and as
such, bring their
own ideas and perspectives into this discourse. There's a
tension, in other
words, between the "here-and-now" and "what once was", that
can be
invigorating.
I was surprised
by the number of posts defending the enterpreneureal (sp?)
spirit, and even
out-and-out commercialism, since most members of this group
are probably
"liberals", and inclined to view capitalism w/ some skepticism.
(Anarchist that I
am, I would draw a distinction, incidentally, between
market capitalism
and corporate capitalism, but all that is for some other
mail-group.) I'm
also surprised at how well-versed members of this group are
regarding
contemporary Hollywood and television personalities, but maybe that
is because I
don't even own a TV!
For what it's
worth, I don't think it's possible to defend an argument that
the Beats of the
50s were anti-capitalist or even anti-consumerist. They were
Americans, after
all, and part of what is/was exciting about the Beats is how
they sought to
find and touch the hidden heart of this great, garish,
ranting, brawling
country, this place we call America which is not so much a
place, after all,
as it is a state of mind. As far as the
Volvo commercials,
the Nike
commercials, the Mercedes commercials, et al., I must concur w/
those who have
said: Loosen up, folks. If that Volvo commercials sends some
kid to the
library to seek out OTR, than it is, perhaps, a good thing, and if
that kid reads
OTR, and sets out to emulate its author in even some small
way, that is all
the better, and we will all be better people as a result.
It's all one big,
long, lonely, crazy, wild, spooky, shadowy, bright, noisy
road-trip anyway,
only usually we call it life for lack of any better name to
give it. I think
the point is to enjoy the ride.
And, what I
really want to know is - If Jack Kerouac were alive and writing
today, would he
use a Macintosh or an IBM-PC?
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 22:08:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: dream film
>I know this
is sort of an old post, and I'll probably be flamed for
>this, but I'm
not sure if Sinise would be a good Ginsberg. Granted, with
>makeup, he
looks a lot like Truman in the HBO film, but he seems more
>all American,
like JK, than Ginsberg. However, he is an actor......
I thought the
geeky looking guy from Lunch did a pretty good job as
Ginsberg..
personally that is..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 22:14:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: America
> dan terkla......if you want to teach
your students about
>america.......please.....first.....teach
them america is not usa only.....i
>don't know if
even beats learned this......
>you have
stolen a name: america.....
Thanks so much
for posting this! I have been working on a shitty
version of
America '95 now for almost a year and haven't been
able to save the
long, prose-esque script from what seems to be
a weak attempt at
redefining the original in modern terms. I think
this will help me
out to some extent..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:12:38 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: JK
In your message
dated Thursday 19, October 1995 you wrote :
> >a greek
philosopher who lived more than two thousand years ago
> >believed
that philosophy had it's origin in man's sense of wonder.
> >man
thought it was so astonishing to be alive that phiosophical
>
>questions arose of their own accord.
>
Yes yes yes,
Joe. This is Kerouac for me. Especially
his sense of wonder at
other people,
people who conventional society wouldn't give the time of day to.
I think I should
read about Sophie's World. It looks interesting.
PS Jostein
Gaarder is female.
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 00:31:56 +0200
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Coppola/Cassady
In-Reply-To:
<951019230645_128316139@mail02.mail.aol.com> (DustyJ437@AOL.COM)
From: "Karen
L Becker" <DustyJ437@AOL.COM>
> I think I
too would have fallen victim to NC's over-stated charm...
> Later
> DustyJade
I'm not sure how
accurate an impression any of us can have without having met
the guy ...
I saw a film of
NC once (I was at the same event in SF as another list member,
I forget his name
-- Ken Babbs spoke, it was around 1982) ... the thing that
struck me was how
_strong_ this guy was ... he was flipping this sledgehammer
.... a lot of
physical energy. I can believe he was a
ladies' man (tho you'd
better ask a lady
about that) ... Terrific physique ... not sure of the year,
probably he was
pushing forty when the film was made.
But very good-looking.
To tell you the
truth, I think it will be very difficult to cast this part ...
nobody could come
up to the original ...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:59:21 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott <scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Junk's Christmas
In-Reply-To:
<950911212418_16699420@emout05.mail.aol.com>
Coming to Bravo!
TV (Canada) this Thursday night at 6:30. Features the
voice of William
Burroughs. More details later.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:01:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Marty Kinczel <MAK62@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: McLibel: McDonalds' Witnesses S
please pass along
this important manure to the world
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: Fwd: McLibel: McDonalds' Witnesses S
Date: 95-10-23 14:44:07 EDT
From: MKinczel
To: ash@icg.apc.org,SPH16,MAK62
some light
reading
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: wilson@readmore.com (Jenni Wilson)
To: mkinczel%aol.com@readmore.com
Date: 95-10-19
18:49:59 EDT
Subject: McLibel:
McDonalds' Witnesses Shoot Themselves Down (fwd)
Forwarded to:
smtp[acameron@vax.clarku.edu],smtp[102704.2332@compuserve.com],smtp[edgarc
ia@usp.br],smtp[lwilson@peace.moldova.su],smtp[ahuber@husc.harvard.edu],sm
tp[hamilton@forwild.umass.edu],smtp[coxc@agreng.lan.mcgill.ca]
cc:
Comments by: Cindy Robinson@Stud@CEM
Comments:
A amazing, and
sad tale. Food for thought (definately
NOT to eat) . .
.
-------------------------- [Original
Message]
-------------------------
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 17 Sep
1995 03:07:48 -0400
From: Moonchild
<coniberr@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: vrc@tiac.net
Subject: McLibel:
McDonalds' Witnesses Shoot Themselves Down
McLibel Support
Campaign
5 Caledonian Road
London N1
9DX UK
Tel/Fax +44-171-713 1269
A Year of Great
McQuotes from the Witness Box
McDonald's
witnesses have often said ridiculous things in the
witness box in a
vain attempt to conceal the truth or justify the
way McDonald's
operates and the effect those operations have in
this country and
around the world. Here is just a small
selection:
NUTRITION AND
ILL-HEALTH
The Defendants
asked Dr Sydney Arnott (McDonald's expert on
cancer) his
opinion of the following statement: "A diet high in
fat, sugar,
animal products and salt and low in fibre, vitamins
and minerals is
linked with cancer of the breast and bowel and
heart
disease". He replied: "If it
is being directed to the
public then I
would say it is a very reasonable thing to say."
The court was
then informed that the statement was an extract from
the London
Greenpeace Factsheet. This section had
been
characterised by
McDonald's lawyer at pre-trial hearings as the
central and most
"defamatory" allegation, which if proven would be
the "kiss of
death" for a fast-food company like McDonald's. On
the strength of
the supposed scientific complexities surrounding
this issue the
Defendants had been denied their right to a jury.
David Green,
Senior Vice-President of Marketing (USA), stated
'McDonald's food
is nutritious' and 'healthy'. When asked
what
the company meant
by 'nutritious' he said: 'provides nutrients and
can be a part of
a healthy balanced diet'. He admitted
this could
also apply to a
packet of sweets [candy]. When asked if
Coca Cola
is 'nutritious'
he replied that it is 'providing water, and I
think that is
part of a balanced diet'. He agreed that
by his
definition Coke
is nutritious.
When asked to
define 'junk food', Professor Wheelock (McDonald's
consultant on
nutrition) said it was 'whatever a person doesn't
like' (in his
case semolina). With disbelief mounting
in the
courtroom,
Richard Rampton (McDonald's QC) intervened to say that
McDonald's was
not objecting to the description of their food as
'junk food'!
Peter Cox, (a
Defence marketing expert) quoted from 'Behind the
Arches', a book
authorised by McDonald's in 1987, as evidence that
McDonald's were
engaged in 'a strategy of subversion' by trying to
alter the dietary
preferences of whole nations, 'very often for
the worse'. The book states that, in Japan, McDonald's
faced "a
fundamental
challenge of establishing beef as a common food".
Their President,
Den Fujita, said "the reason Japanese people are
so short and have
yellow skins is because they have eaten nothing
but fish and rice
for two thousand years"; "if we eat McDonald's
hamburgers and
potatoes for a thousand years we will become
taller, our skin
become white and our hair blonde".
McDonald's began
a major advertising campaign in the USA in 1987
which aimed
"to neutralise the junk food misconceptions about
McDonald's good
food". An internal company memo,
reporting on a
high level
meeting in March 1986 with public relations advisors
prior to the
advertising campaign, was read out in court.
It
states
"McDonald's should attempt to deflect the basic negative
thrust of our
critics.....How do we do this? By
talking
'moderation and
balance'. We can't really address or
defend
nutrition. We don't sell nutrition and people don't come
to
McDonald's for
nutrition".
The Effects of
Advertising
Incredibly, Paul
Preston (McDonald's UK President) claimed that
the character
Ronald McDonald is intended not to "sell food" to
children, but to
promote the "McDonald's experience".
But an
extract from the
corporation's official and confidential
'Operations
Manual' was read out: "Ronald loves McDonald's and
McDonald's
food. And so do children, because they
love Ronald.
Remember,
children exert a phenomenal influence when it comes to
restaurant
selection. This means you should do
everything you can
to appeal to
children's love for Ronald and McDonald's."
McDonald's annual
advertising and promotions budget is $1.4
billion. It was revealed in court that Geoffrey
Guiliano, a
Ronald McDonald
actor in the 1980's, had quit and publicly
apologised,
stating "I brainwashed youngsters into doing wrong. I
want to say sorry
to children everywhere for selling out to
concerns who make
millions by murdering animals".
The Effects of
Packaging on the Environment
McDonald's
distributed 'McFact' cards nationwide for several years
publicising a
scheme to recycle polystyrene waste from stores in
Nottingham, where
customers were asked to put polystyrene
packaging into a
separate bin, "for recycling into such things as
plant pots and
coat hangers". Ed Oakley (Chief
Purchasing Officer
for McDonald's
UK) admitted that the company had not recycled any
of the waste and
in fact the polystyrene was "dumped".
Paul Preston,
McDonald's UK President, said that if one million
customers each
bought a soft drink, he would not expect more than
150 cups to end
up as litter. Photographs were then put
to him,
showing 27 pieces
of McDonald's litter in one stretch of pavement
alone (the company
has over 600 stores in the UK and serves over a
million customers
each day).
In some countries
the company has abandoned or limited the use of
polystyrene
packaging, in part because it is not biodegradable and
takes up a lot of
space in landfill sites. Ed Oakley
(McDonald's
UK) stated that
there is "no landfill problem in the UK".
Questioned as to
whether he believes that "as long as there is
room in the
dumps, there is no problem with dumping lots of
McDonald's waste
in the ground?" Mr Oakley said "and everybody
else's waste,
yes, that is true". He said "I
can see [the dumping
of waste] to be a
benefit, otherwise you will end up with lots of
vast, empty
gravel pits all over the country."
Asked if he was
"asserting
it is an environmental benefit to dump waste in
landfill
sites" he stated "It could be"...."yes, it is certainly
not a
problem".
Destruction of
Rainforests
Internal company
documents, mistakenly disclosed to the
Defendants, were
read to the court in which McDonald's admitted
the purchase in
the UK in 1983/4 of beef imported from Brazil, a
rainforest
country. A letter from the McDonald's
Corporation to a
member of the
public in the UK in 1982 stated "we can assure you
that the only
Brazilian beef used by McDonald's is that purchased
by the six stores
located in Brazil itself". Ed
Oakley (Chief
Purchasing
Officer for McDonald's UK) denied that the purchase of
Brazilian beef
for use in the UK was in breach of McDonald's
policy of not
using beef which originated outside the European
Union, saying
"No, it was not. We still bought
the hamburgers
locally. We did not buy the ingredients locally".
David Walker (the
Chairman of McKey Foods, the sole supplier of
McDonald's UK
hamburgers) admitted that he had personally
organised the
direct import of the consignments of Brazilian beef
for McDonald's UK
stores in 1983/4. A letter from Mr
Walker at
the time was
quoted in court. It revealed that the
imports were a
matter of great
controversy. The letter stated that
Prince
Philip, the
President of the World Wildlife Fund, had recently met
George Cohon,
President of McDonald's Canada, and had said:
" 'So
you are the
people who are tearing down the Brazilian rainforests
and breeding
cattle' to which the reply was: 'I think you are
mistaken',
whereupon HRH said 'Rubbish' and stormed away".
Following this,
the letter stated that Fred Turner, the Chairman
of the McDonald's
Corporation, "issued a worldwide edict that no
McDonald's plant
was to use Brazilian beef". The
same letter
revealed that
McDonald's UK had given Walker permission to use the
Brazilian beef
imports.
McDonald's claim
that they do not use beef from cattle reared on
recently
deforested land. However, in his
statement (which has
been read out
during the Trial, Ray Cesca (Director of Global
Purchasing of the
McDonald's Corporation) admits that when they
opened stores in
Costa Rica in 1970, they were using beef from
cattle raised on
ex-rainforest land, deforested in the 1950's and
1960's. In other words, some of it had been cleared
less than 10
years
earlier. McDonald's own definition of
'recently deforested'
is unclear and
seems to fluctuate between 10 and 25 years or "from
the time that we
arrive...in a country" (Gomez Gonzales,
International
Meat Purchasing Manager of the McDonald's
Corporation).
McDonald's claim
that they only use US-produced beef in the USA.
However, during
the Trial an extract from the TV documentary
'Jungleburger'
was shown, in which McDonald's beef suppliers in
Costa Rica stated
that they also supplied beef for use by
McDonald's in the
USA.
Employees and
Trade Unions
Robert Beavers
(Senior Vice-President of the US Corporation)
agreed that in
the early 70's, when trade unions were trying to
organise in
McDonald's in the US, the company set up a "flying
squad" of
experienced managers who were despatched to a store the
same day that
word came in of an attempt by workers to unionise
it. Unions made no headway.
Sid Nicholson,
McDonald's UK Vice President, admitted that
McDonald's set
their starting rates for crew employees for most of
the country
"consistently either exactly the same as the minimum
rates of pay set
by the Wages Council or just a few pence over
them". He agreed that for crew aged 21 or over the
company
"couldn't
actually pay any lower wages without falling foul of the
law". However, he said "I do not accept that
McDonald's crew are
low paid".
Mr Nicholson said
the company was not anti-union and all staff had
a right to join
one. Under questioning he admitted that
any
McDonald's
workers interested in union membership "would not be
allowed to
collect subscriptions...put up notices...pass out any
leaflets...to
organise a meeting for staff to discuss conditions
at the store on
the premises...or to inform the union about
conditions inside
the stores" (which would be deemed 'Gross
Misconduct' and
as such a 'summary sackable offence').
In fact,
Mr Nicholson
agreed, "they would not be allowed to carry out any
overt union
activity on McDonald's premises".
Jill Barnes,
McDonald's UK Hygiene and Safety Officer, was
challenged over a
previously confidential internal report into the
death by
electrocution of Mark Hopkins in a Manchester store on
October 12th
1992. It had catalogued a number of
company failures
and problems, and
had made the damning conclusion: "Safety is not
seen as being
important at store level". In
addition, a Health &
Safety Executive
report of 1992 concluded: "the application of
McDonald's hustle
policy [ie. getting staff to work at speed] in
many restaurants
was, in effect, putting the service of the
customer before
the safety of employees".
Animal Welfare
Dr Neville
Gregory (McDonald's expert witness) said McDonald's egg
suppliers keep
chickens in battery cages, 5 chickens to a cage
with less than
the size of an A4 sheet of paper per bird and with
no freedom of
movement and no access to fresh air or sunshine. Ed
Oakley of
McDonald's said the company had thought about switching
to free range
eggs, but, not only are battery eggs "50% cheaper",
but, he claimed
"hens kept in batteries are better cared for". He
said he thinks
battery cages are "pretty comfortable"!
Ed Oakley (Chief
Purchasing Officer for McDonald's UK) claimed
that the company
"had a very real feeling that animals should be
kept and
slaughtered in the most humane way possible" and so had
published an
animal welfare statement two years ago.
When
questioned about
this so-called policy Mr Oakley admitted that the
"animal
welfare policy is, in fact, just a policy to comply with
the laws of the
various countries in which McDonald's operate",
and added
"we do not go beyond what the law stipulates".
Food Safety
A UK 'McFact'
card states: "every consignment of beef arriving at
the [McKeys] meat
plant is subject to a total of 36 quality
control checks,
carried out by a team of qualified technologists.
If a consignment
should fail on any one check, it will be rejected
by
McDonald's." All the raw beef consignments
are
microbiologically
tested, and categorised as 'satisfactory',
'passable', and
'unsatisfactory'. David Walker (Chairman
of
McKeys, the sole
supplier of the company's UK hamburgers) stated
that
'unsatisfactory' relates to beef which has a total colony of
more than 10
million bacteria per gram. He then
admitted that
such consignments
are, in fact, not rejected and are used for
McDonald's
burgers.
McDonald's have
refused to call their own expert witness on food
poisoning, Colin
Clarke, who prepared a detailed report following
a visit he made
to three company stores. The court heard
that,
regarding the
cooking of hamburgers (which he had tested), Mr
Clark in his
statement "recommends that 73 deg C be the internal
minimum
temperature of the final product, and that their
temperatures were
not reaching that in all cases. The
minimum
was, in fact, 70
deg C."
Please distribute
this information far and wide.
To subscribe to
the "mclibel" listserve, send email
To: majordomo@world.std.com
Subject: <not
needed>
Body: subscribe mclibel
Traffic on the
list is low, being primarily a news service. Please
limit submissions
to news-type items about McDonalds and corporate
influence on the
law.
Further
information and previous updates are available on Nick
Fiddes' World
Wide Web site at:-
http://anthfirst.san.ed.ac.uk/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 17:04:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac's Computer
He would
obviously have used a portable Notebook, as he was scribbling notes
constantly, then
probably sending them via modem from cybercafes back to
Mamere's house to
work up into the latest offering on the Duluoz WWW Home
Page. No waiting
for dopey publishers to get around to offering for his
books, and no
damn pesky editors either. A perfect place for his writings, I
think. And can
you imagine what his E-Mials would have been like. If you
want a look at
what it all might have been like, I'd suggest the ALT-X web site.
Nick W-W
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 23:38:38 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie <simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Computer
In your message
dated Monday 23, October 1995 you wrote :
> And can you
imagine what his E-Mials would have been like. If you
> want a look
at what it all might have been like, I'd suggest the ALT-X web
site.
Which is what,
where?
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:24:42 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Mary Maguire--address
Mary, my reply to
your last message re Beats--NYC bounced back as undeliberable
to your e-mail
address. Please let me know whether or
not you received that re
ply. You seem to be getting Beat-l mail at that
address. Don't understand wha
t's happening!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:55:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: InfoSeek Net Search Results: ALT-X
http://www2.infoseek.com/Titles?qt=ALT-X
did a
netsearch...got this page....
tried to
open http://www.altx.com
but had some network
trouble....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:34:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Commercials
please don't
refer to rollins in the same breath as kerouac and
burroughs............
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:41:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Commercials
new bataille
cologne by the house of 'de postmoderne' if you can't be a
writer at least
you can smell like one......rene
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:47:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Volvo commercial
to gusto.........
...........who
cares indeed............i wonder, could kathy acker be used
for a prozac
commercial?...............baudelaire for
evian?..............imagine.........................rene...................it'
s just a
commercial..............................................commerce..............
...s........ho...........r..........t.........atten..........tion...........s.
........p.........a.........n..........s........
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:53:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: TV, Volvos, Dreams, & Jack
mac or
pc?............probably a smith-corona...........at 100 words per
minute....................
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:57:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: America
hey all,
i'm doin' a zine
with a 'colonialism' theme anything and everything: rants,
poetry prose,
articles, creature feature..................e-mail for more
info............deadline
nov. 10............the more experimental the
better/worse.........up
to y'all...................getting submissions from
all
over................ciao for niao...........rene
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:23:33 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: new Snyder book
I'm reading Gary
Snyder's new book, *A Place in Space*, new and selected
essays, published
by Counterpoint, a new press headed up by Jack Shoemaker,
formerly of North
Point and Pantheon. I am very favorably impressed so far
(to about page
125). Snyder seems to me to just keep getting wiser and
funnier, with
lots of great tidbits of lore and witty zen sayings. He's the
prime example of
McClure's assertion that beat lit. is the literary wing of
the environmental
movement. Snyder writes a bit about the beat generation in
this book, never
capitalizes it or makes it a Big Deal but treats it as
another of many
manifestations of the Great Subculture or "third force" that
runs throughout
history. He writes on a solar powered Mac, by the way.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:48:04 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: One breath
RZZ>please
don't refer to rollins in the same breath as kerouac and
>burroughs............
Deep breath,
Kerouac Burroughs and Rollins, exhale.
Henry was talked
about here for a bit a while ago as I recall.
I brought him
up recently
because he advertises Macs in the ads "What's on my Powerbook".
I used to play in
a band that played with Black Flag and always will remember
what Henry did
one night. I saw there was an
alt.fan.henryrollins group so
I posted this
true story there. Maybe some people here
would be intersted
as well.
Here it is:
I saw this
newsgroup so I thought I'd tell you all a story. I think you'd be
interested in
hearing it if anyone is. It concerns why
I am a fan of Henry
Rollins.
I am not a fan of
Henry's singing. Personally I don't
think it was very good.
I'm not a fan of
his writing. I don't really know anything about it so I
couldn't say if
it's good or bad. I did look at Get In
The Van a little bit
in the
store. I looked at the San Francisco
passages in the early 80's. I
noticed that he
made a mistake. When he was talking
about Flipper and how
those guys
freaked him out he got it wrong when he called Ted Falconi Flipper's
bass player. Ted played guitar. Will Shatter (Russell Wilkinson R.I.P) was
the bass
player. My being a fan has nothing to do
with his "artistic"
endeavors. I do think it is impressive what he has done
in publishing so much
stuff, he
certainly is prolific.
But I am a fan of
Henry for something that took place in San Francisco in the
early 80's ('81
maybe?) outside the Mabuhay Gardens. It
was a friday or
saturday night
and Black Flag was headling at the Mabuhay, which they might
have been calling
the Fab Mab at the time. My band was the opening band, then
was Husker Du
(this was their first San Fran show), then the great Minutemen
followed by the
headliner Black Flag. This was Black
Flag's first show in SF
with their new
singer Henry. Dez had moved on to guitar
after Henry jumped
ship from his DC
band. Henry was kind of psycho back
then. Psycho in that he
didn't ever
talk. He had a totally shaved head,
smooth no nubs, and crazy
eyes. Like I said he never seemed to talk. During the Minutemen's set he
stood at the side
of the stage and played air drums throughout the whole set.
Now here's why I
am a fan of Henry's. During the course
of the night, a bunch
of us were
hanging out outside in the front of the Mab.
The Mabuhay was (is?)
on Broadway in
San Francisco. On weekend nights there
was always a lot of
traffic so the
cars were stop and go with more stop than go.
I don't remember
how it began but
two guys in the middle of the street among the stalled traffic
(not punk rock
guys from the Mab, just regular weekend partyer types), these
two guys started
arguing and yelling at each other. Their
argument escalated
and their voices
got louder and they got closer to each other until they
were face to face
in the middle of Broadway. It was very
clear they were about
to begin
fighting. Who knows what would happen
after that. When what do I see
but Henry snaking
his way through the cars, coming up behind the one guy about
to fight with the
other guy. Henry quietly and quickly
snuck up behind him
and grabbed him
in what was probably a wrestling hold of some sort. He pinned
back his arms
immobilizing him, lifted him off his feet and walked backward
with him,
effectivley separating the two combatants.
This broke up the
altercation and
the two guys went on their respective ways without any damage
or
bloodshed. Needless to say this was one
of the coolest and bravest things
I've ever seen.
This is why I'll
always be a fan of Henry Rollins. I
don't think much of him
artistically, but
then again I don't know that much about his writings. Maybe
I'll go read
something by him to see what he writes.
I have always
remembered this and wanted to tell people about this event. I
figured a
newsgroup called alt.fan.henryrollins would be a good place to tell
it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:17:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda <Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: One breath
yeah well,
my brother
partied with him in los angeles back in the black flag days....ho
hum ......he's
now dead......an' had a lot more to say say than that
poseur..........rene....even
now......too bad my brother didn't have the
money to publish
his own words, aye?.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 19:56:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: w.britton1@GENIE.COM
Subject: QUERY
As a new subscriber to Beat Gen, I'm not
sure who the readership is,
but I thought I'd post the following queries
and see what comes out of =
the
ether:
1. I have completed the MS of a book,
Whimtans=1B[D=1B[D=1B[D=1B[D=1B[D=7F=
=7F=7F=7F=1B[D=1B[C=7Ftman's
Shadow: Music, Media, and M=1B[D=1B[D
=1B[C=1B[C=1B[DMulticulturalism. It traces the Whitman tradition throu=
gh Pound and
Williams
and then deeply
into the Beats, primarilly Ginsberg, Kerouac, Burroughs, =
and
Snyder, although
I touch on Corso, Ferlinghetti, Anne Waldman and others.
It examines how these authors use music,
recording technology, and inte=
rests in cross
cultural
influences.
The book then examines the Whitman/Beat
tradition in Native American =
and African
American
literatue,
examines this tradion in the poetry of Bob Dylan and Jim
Morrison, and
then branches off into works by writers such as Charles Buk=
owski,
performance artist
Laouie Landerson,
and others. What I need is potential
publishers; most =
seem to think
such a project is not marketable. Any ideas?
2. Part of this book discusses the recorded projects
of the Beats,
and I'm trying to be comprehensive. I'm hopefull I know of all Kerouc
recordings, both
sound and visual, and most of Tinsberg's.
I know of som=
e Burroughs
but very little
else. Any listings you can post would be
helpful.
I too
very much like Snyder's new book, A Place in Space,
especially the latter two thirds which are
both deeper and look to the =
future.
He's as important
an essayist as poet, worthy of comparison to Ralph Wald=
o Emerson.
I highly
reccomend it. It's a positive voice in a
cynical culture.
Can write me here or at W.
B=1B[D=1B[D=7F=1B[CRITTON1!=1B[D=7F@GENIE.C=
OM
[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B=
[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[C=1B[A=1B[A=1B[B=1B[B=1B=
[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B=
[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[B=1B[K=1B[C=1B[C
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:36:49 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News
Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: FW: other recordings, spoken or sung
(fwd)
Comments: cc:
CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU
> From: CLAY
VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
> I'd like to
think I keep up with recordings that are out there,
>
> There's that
Phillip Glass thing, HYDROGEN JUKEBOX, Steve Swallow's
> record of
music set to the words of Robt Creeley (I forget the name
> of the
voice, is it Carla Bley?)
*** Sheila Jordan
actually
that old
> Mark Murphy
jazz thing, BOP FOR KEROUAC (old, and I'm not sure it's
> weathered
well, I haven't given it a listen in a long while)...
***Mark Murphy
has a second disc with "Kerouac" in the title too,
relevant songs
there
I just put
together a cassette for Levi of beat related music by a
whole bunch of
folks,
including the
originals,
and, Clay, you
mentioned a Terry riley disc: can you give us more specifics?,
cheers,
Greeley not
Creeley
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 00:05:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: One breath
Oh, for heaven's
sake.
Is there anyone
in the world except Jack, Bill, Allen and Gary (and they
ain't/were not
perfect) that can be brought up without someone flaming?
Why are so many
people so judgemental?
Jack even liked
Ike. I'm no saint but if I've gotten
anything from beatdom
it's that
everyone is beat, as in beatific - beauty within, beauty as a
child, beauty in
the soul. Of course, some people get
twisted and lose the
light, Hitler for
example, Nixon was never high on my list, or Stalin. But
why flame anyone
unless there is a reason, unless they have really done
something to lose
thier humanity - and I don't mean making a quick buck on
some ad for the
Gap or Apple.
I got flamed on
another newsgroup for lamenting the death of Jerry Garcia and
pointing out his
kinship to many beats. It didn't ruin my
day (the day was
already ruined)
but why? Aren't we all beautiful, at
least in part?
I'm not a
particular Henry Rollins fan although I'd love to see him sometime.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:05:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: One breath
In-Reply-To:
<951025000502_132224616@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "Howard
Park"
at Oct 25, 95 00:05:03 am
hmmm....i sort of
liked this one...
> Oh, for
heaven's sake.
>
> Is there
anyone in the world except Jack, Bill, Allen and Gary (and they
> ain't/were
not perfect) that can be brought up without someone flaming?
there are so many
beautiful people....if we choose to open our minds and
our eyes..... i
think that's why i like neal..... he sure did like people....
> Why are so
many people so judgemental?
wow..that's a
tough one... i think people judge because they are afraid..
... so they get
real nasty, you know... start hurting others because it's
easy to do....
it's real hard to sit back...and open one's mind.....
> Jack even
liked Ike. I'm no saint but if I've
gotten anything from beatdom
> it's that
everyone is beat, as in beatific - beauty within, beauty as a
> child,
beauty in the soul.
saints are highly
overrated.... *smile*... i mean, it's like we
put beautiful and
kind people up on this pedestal...like jesus, you know...
and he was just
as human as the next guy...he just knew how to love....
but then they
made him a god...and took away that human aspect..... why
should anyone
think they can be like jesus or any other god when they are
only human? so they punish themselves for not being
gods...and they
punish others for
not believing in these gods....and so few
even try to be
this way...to be kind.... to give.....to love....
> Of course,
some people get twisted and lose the
> light,
Hitler for example, Nixon was never high on my list, or Stalin. But
> why flame
anyone unless there is a reason, unless they have really done
> something to
lose thier humanity - and I don't mean making a quick buck on
> some ad for
the Gap or Apple.
flaming never
changed perspective.... it usually irritates the one being
flamed.... you
piss off a guy like hitler...do you really think he's
going to look in
the mirror and say..."hmm...maybe they are right"
so let it
go....can't control it...so don't try...
> I got flamed
on another newsgroup for lamenting the death of Jerry Garcia and
> pointing out
his kinship to many beats. It didn't
ruin my day (the day was
> already
ruined) but why? Aren't we all
beautiful, at least in part?
i feel for you
man....never listened to the dead......but there are lots
of angry people
in this world.... jerry wasn't one of them... that's all
i need to
know....keep the spirit alive....
peace
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:31:56 CDT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: bs at AUC <i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Ginsberg on talk show
Last night AG was
a featured guest on the "Selina Scott Show" which is
broadcast on
NBC/Superchannel here in Europe. It was about twenty minutes
of chat plus a
performance by AG of a rap he referred to as one he had
performed
together with Paul McCartney at the RAH a few days earlier. The
chat was
semi-interesting, including some historical remarks about banned
books trial
(Burroughs etc) and some of AG's family history. European
subscribers might
want to on the alert for re-runs of the show, probably
late-night,
weekends, on NBC/Superchannel via cable or satellite...
Regards,
bs@AUC
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:11:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeremy Ocean
<JeremyO@SMTP.IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Pull My Daisy (Robert Frank)
-- [ From: Jeremy
Ocean * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
All:
First off, just
wondering if this mailing list is available in a Digest form
(big bunch 'o
messages in a single e-mail to me), i didn't see anything
refering to
it. About how much traffic does the list
get <messages per day?
>.
If anyone is
interested in seeing 'Pull my Daisy', the Robert Frank film
with the beats in
it e-mail me, oh yea, you have to be in the New Jersey
area,
specifically S.Jersey. It's possible
that I will be holding a showing
of it at a
college down here. Any info on the movie
or Robert Frank in
perticular would
be much appreciated. I'm just started
getting into Frank
this week, and
I'm hungry for info. Take care...
JeremyO
<JeremyO@ix.netcom.com>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:20:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pull My Daisy (Robert Frank)
Debra Parr had a
showing, last spring, at Webster University in St. Louis. It
was quite a grand
event. I never realized how goofy everyone looked!!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:40:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: America
In-Reply-To:
<951024145716_131728562@mail04.mail.aol.com> from "Rene
Zamora
Zepeda" at Oct 24, 95
02:57:16 pm
rene...send more
info re:zine\
carl@world.std.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:48:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: QUERY
>From
everything I have heard, the beats are white-hot in publishing circles
although only
titles like On The Road truely mass-market.
The Beats have
been adopted by
influential segments of "Gereration X" as Time magazine might
describe it.
Contact some more
publishers!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 21:21:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: The Commerce of Kerouac
In the latest
issue of Time magazine that I received in the mail today -
there is an
insert from Volvo that ties in with their TV campaign. The front
of the ad booklet
shows scenes from the ads - the third scene shows the guy
holding an
"old" copy of On The Road.
The text inside
reads: "Always the romantic, John remembered to bring ON THE
ROAD. Not one of
those new printings he'd seen in the bookstore at the mall,
but the original
one that he had stored away in the attic."
The only problem
here is that the picture of the book is bogus
- there never
was an edition of
ON THE ROAD that looked like that - with those graphics
ande colored
covers - the artwork of this supposed "original" edition was
made up by some
ad guy a few months ago!
Couldn't a big
agency like the one that created this On The Road Volvo ad
find a true first
edition of On The Road to use in the commercials? What were
they up to? And
then I remembered:
This recent spurt
of Kerouac in commercials is not new - before Kerouac
wearing levis and
this Volvo ad, there was an interesting case of Kerouac
commercialism -
In 1986 (almost 10 years ago already!), the Banana Republic
clothing company,
based in San Francisco, started marketing a leather "On The
Road" jacket
for $239.00 in their mail-order catalogue. The catalogue page
not only
highlighted the leather jacket but dedicated it "for Jack Kerouac"
and there was ad
copy written in the style of an On The Road passage
describing the
hipness of the jacket. The following comment appeared after
the Kerouacesque
copy: "When our writer slipped on
this jacket and sat
behind the wheel
of his typewriter, the spirit of Jack Kerouac hitched a
ride-Ed."
To top it all off
- next to the jacket picture was a reproduction of the
first edition of
On The Road published by Viking Press in 1957.
Some heads must
of rolled at the ad agency since the dust jacket of On The
Road was
copyrighted material. and could it be that it was used without
permission of the
publisher in the mail-order catalogue?
When the next
issue of Banana Republic's catalogue came out -
not surprisingly,
the picture of the Viking On The Road first edition was
absent from the
page. Instead, there was an endorsement from none other than
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti who in a facsimile signed paragraph called this leather
On The Road
jacket
a "dream
raiment" and said that with the jacket on, "I feel like Jack Kerouac
himself being
driven like a king in a 1950s limousine
by Neal Cassady
through the Great American night." YUK!!!
Come on, Larry!
What a bunch of crap!!
If we as a group
are getting sick of seeing all the Beats in these ads -
don't worry. Soon
enough, Madison Avenue will realize that these commercials
are not effective
and do not sell the advertised products - the only sales
that may increase
because of increased public awareness are the sales of the
authors' books.
Any comments?
Jeffrey Weinberg
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:29:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Douglas Karpp
<GustoEater@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac
If I were an ad
executive, I am sure I would have read the beats at some
point in my life,
(after all executives are not stupid nor uneducated) and
would be real
proud to display something from my youth in my campaigns to
sell things. No matter what I do in my life, I hope to
bring some awareness
to the people
around me of the beats, these guys on Madison avenue as
everyone keeps
saying just have a far greater circulation than I ever will.
Thanks for listening to me again. Does anyone agree with me?
gustoeater
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:47:57 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
What's the
address for Levi's website - litkicks?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 08:50:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 25 Oct 1995
20:21:33 EST
What a great
memory, Jeff W.!
I've always been
a bit suspicious of Ferlinghetti... after all, _he_ was
making money off
these cats! I never liked his "stumble bum" assessment
of
Kerouac-on-the-scene. I didn't feel right about him. The blurb for
bananas fits the
picture I have in mind.
By the way,
Jeff... any chance that Water Row had/has a first edition
(signed, of
course) of OTR that could have been leased to Volvo???
Just wonderin'
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:05:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac
Jim - Thanks for
the reply -
We don't have a
signed first edition in stock at this time but we do have a
fabulous
facsimile reprint that Volvo could have ordered.
It looks exactly
like the real thing, dust jacket and all (except for a line
on the copyright
page). A great Xmas gift!
But Volvo
probably inquired about using the real book as an ad image and
didn't want to
pay the fee to Viking? (conjecture, only)
The one they used
in the ad appears to have been produced on a color HP
printer.
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 07:16:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<951025232906_77703428@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "Douglas
Karpp"
at Oct 25, 95 11:29:08 pm
> If I were an
ad executive, I am sure I would have read the beats at some
> point in my
life, (after all executives are not stupid nor uneducated) and
In my work on
Wall Street I've met some executives who are very stupid (though,
unfortunately,
highly educated) but REGARDLESS OF THAT ... I couldn't help
bringing up the
interesting factoid that several beat writers were involved
in the ad
business. I can't remember (I'm at work,
don't have books with
me) what position
he held exactly, but Allen Ginsberg was doing something
in the
advertising business (I think he was a marketing researcher?) before
he become a
famous poet, and I remember being amused by hearing that he'd
worked on the
"brush-a brush-a brush-a" ad campaign for Ipana Toothpaste,
which was
featured in the movie version of "Grease."
The poet Lew
Welch was working in advertising in Chicago when his college
friends Philip
Whalen and Gary Snyder read at the famous 1955 Six Gallery
poetry reading. He quit and left for San Francisco as soon as
he heard that
"something
was happening" out there. It's been
said that he came up with the
line "Raid
kills bugs dead." Can anyone verify
this?
Just as college
graduates gravitate towards software and multimedia these days,
I think they
gravitated towards the ad business, and related fields, back
in the
fifties. Anyway, just more trivia ...
For the person
who asked for the URL for my website, it's in my .sig below.
Thanks for
asking.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:26:25 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: otr dust jacket
While I'm not
lucky enough to have a first edition of OTR, I did manage to come
upon a tattered
dust jacket. I can let Volvo have it at
a very reasonable pric
e should they be
interested.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:26:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Subject: The COmmerce of Kerouac
Forwarded
to:
smtp[BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@Gems.VCU.EDU]
cc:
Comments by: Kirsten A. Hirsch@Commons@USC
-------------------------- [Original
Message] -------------------------
What edition of
the Banana Republic catalog are you referring to? I have all
of 86 in my
office (don't ask why) and I can't seem to find the LF
endorsement or
the picture of the ON THE ROAD jacket cover. I found the
jacket though...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:27:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Ellis <ellisc_1@TYSON.COM>
Subject: New Guy Query
Hello, I'm new
here and was wondering if anyone ever discusses the likes of
Alan Watts, Gary
Snyder, or the oldest of the Beats, Chuang Tsu?
- ellisc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 09:30:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Guy Query
>Hello, I'm
new here and was wondering if anyone ever discusses the likes of
>Alan Watts,
Gary Snyder, or the oldest of the Beats, Chuang Tsu?
>
>- ellisc
There was a guy
on this list who used to try and discuss Chuang Tzu. I
think his name
was Frank. He lives in Taiwan. He hasn't been around
lately. For some reason when he tried to talk about
Chuang Tzu or write
poems, people
here told him to shut up.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:38:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Dinsmore <DinsmoreJ@AOL.COM>
Subject: Literary Kicks
Comments: cc:
brooklyn@netcom.com
Levi Asher,
When I saw your
post this am, it reminded me to get a post off to you
regarding
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web site)
This is an
outstanding piece of work on the net, and fills me with beaucoup
d'info every time
I'm in it. Thanks for your excellent
work.
E me your snail
address and I'll send you something of possible interest.
JD
John Dinsmore
& Associates, Booksellers
1037 Castleton
Way South
Lexington,
KY 40517-2724 USA
(606)
271-8042 Daily 9:00 AM to 7:00 PM
Eastern Time
email: dinsmorej@aol.com
Modern First
Editions and Fine Art
"So many
books, so little time."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:44:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Ellis <ellisc_1@TYSON.COM>
Subject: Re: New Guy Query
>>There was
a guy on this list who used to try and discuss Chuang Tzu. I
>think his
name was Frank. He lives in Taiwan. He hasn't been around
>lately. For some reason when he tried to talk about
Chuang Tzu or write
>poems, people
here told him to shut up.
>
That's too
bad. I think the Lacquer Garden man had
influence on many
Beat-minded
folks.
Frank, you still
around?
- ellisc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:58:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The COmmerce of Kerouac
The BR catalogue
with Ferlinghetti is Catalogue number 27. Spring 1986. Page
11.
The BR catalogue
with Viking OTR picture should have been issue number 26,
although I do not
have the whole catalogue, just the page numbered 17.
Hope this is
helpful.
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:01:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: otr dust jacket
The point of the
dust jacket substitute in the ad, I'm pretty sure, must be
that the ad
agency for Volvo did not want to pay for the right to show the
real jacket (o
they were flatly refused by the publisher, perhaps?)This is a
very important
point since the decision to use a bogus book jacket must have
been based solely
on money.
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:02:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Karen L. Becker"
<DustyJ437@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
I made the
original post and I must say that digust at the comercialization
of Art was not my
only reaction.
I know who Kerouac
was, and have read (sevearl times, in fact) _OTR_. But As
I watched the
commercial over & over again, I placed myself in the position
of the average
American with an 8th grade (sorry to say) reading level who
didn't know Jack
Kerouac from a Jack O' Lantern. Then I
was just confused?
How does this rambling albeit beautiful
soliloquy convince anyone to buy
this car?
What were the ad
execs thinking? Where's the selling
point here? What do
these words, no
matter whose they are, have to do with an automobile?
Thoughts?
DustyJade --
Always dream & drive
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14:56:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?
You are right
that the Volvo marketing ad will not work, and I thought I
would give my two
bits as to why...
Why does Volvo
even attempt this plan?
Well, I may get
flamed for this but I think it's been said before. Generation
X (whether you
feel it's dead, alive, plain stupid or plain brilliant) has
built it's heroes
out of tv, movie, music, and general pop culture characters
much more than it
has leaders, politicians, etc. The target audience that
Volvo is trying
to reach is Gen X...get out of college and have your rich
parents buy you a
Volvo so you can get out on the road of life, wear flannel,
be wild and
crazy...before you settle. And when you do settle, hey, you'll
have this great
old Volvo to cart the kids around in...
I'm an X-er and I
am damn proud of it. You know why? Because WE KNOW we are
being marketed
too..we can smell it a mile away. We know that they think that
we think that
Kerouac was this cool hip guy and if you paste his name and his
words and his
voice on a car than we will want to have that car because
that'll mean we
are just as cool and just as hip as Kerouac himself...and
that in itself,
we find laughable. So what do we do? We buy something
completely
different than a Volvo, or better yet HITCH A RIDE and know that
NOW we are as
cool and hip as Kerouac...(just for the record, I market
products to x-ers
at a university,so I have this real twisted "both sides of
the tracks"
view on things...not that I'm an expert, I'm just enveloped by
this stuff and
these arguements all the time)
What kills me, is
that somebody came into the meeting for this ad campaign
and said
something to the effect of "Okay, here's my angle. From my research
I am seeing that
Kerouac and beat lit. is going through a resurrection of
sorts with the
Gen x-ers and I may have my facts wrong here, but didn't
Kerouac write a
book called ON THE ROAD? Get it? On the road...in a
volvo...anybody
following me here?"
-Kirsten
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:10:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Ellis <ellisc_1@TYSON.COM>
Subject: Re: New Guy Poem
Hey Frank,
We were meant to
be happy, whatever our faces show,
If we remove the
skin, and observe the skull, it is smiling.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:03:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bernard Moore
<UnderToad2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac
This is my first
posting. Hope it is done correctly.
Regarding the use of Kerouac and the target
market for the Volvo ad
campaign, I think
the advertisers may be approaching things from a
"psychographic"
or "values" point of view.
It may not be
that Kerouac, per se, is at all what the advertisers are
interested in,
but rather what he is perceived to stand for: freedom,
self-expression,
individuality, etc. And the targeted audience is probably
not Gen-X, (how
can they afford a $33K car?) but affluent Baby-Boomers now
facing something
of a mid-life crisis.......and want to find and experience
"values"
they deem important, (i.e. individuality and freedom) NOW in a way
THEY can now afford. Kerouac's
"Road" is an apt metaphor
(since they are
selling cars) to make the transition between perceived
"values" and targeted
market.
If I was making
the ad campaign pitch, this would have been my spin on it.
Besides, I've
driven an 850 Turbo (but wouldn't buy one) and it IS a rocket
ship!
Also, regarding
the dust jackets and covers on 1st edition OTR.......is the
photo on page 163
of Tom Clark's bio of Kerouac what it should look like in
the commerical?
Enjoying the
postings and points of view.
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:26:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac
Ben: Yes, the
dust jacket pictured in Tom Clark's bio is the first edition of
OTR.
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:20:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeremy Ocean
<JeremyO@SMTP.IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: set beat-l digest
-- [ From: Jeremy
Ocean * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
set beat-l digest
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 06:44:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rene Zamora Zepeda
<Quetzal666@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: otr dust jacket
can't afford a
volvo....however i do remember reading 'on the road' in a
glorious thunder
shower in berlin.............the combo of the two led to a
skinny dipping
session and (gasp) riding the s-bahn w/o paying the
fare..........................................................................
..........................rene
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 20:29:39 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: The Commerce of Kerouac
Yeah, Levi,
there's a real tradition of literary men working in advertising in
the U. S. I
believe it was an advertising job that Sherwood Anderson walked
away from when he
began writing, and F. Scott Fitzgerald is author of the
famous line:
"We keep you clean in Muscatine." Hey, everybody's got to pay
the rent.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 08:09:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ralph Virgo
<rvirgo@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: otr dust jacket
You wrote:
>
>The point of
the dust jacket substitute in the ad, I'm pretty sure,
must be
>that the ad
agency for Volvo did not want to pay for the right to show
the
>real jacket
(o they were flatly refused by the publisher,
perhaps?)This is
a
>very
important point since the decision to use a bogus book jacket
must have
>been based
solely on money.
>Jeffrey
>
Maybe. Perhaps, instead, they were on a tight
timeframe and (real or
imagined) there
was not enough time to get permission.
After all,
getting
permission involves working with outside people and processes,
while something
like the HP printer version could be knocked out
in-house pretty
fast.
Ralph
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:23:37 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Mundt
<bmundt@MUNDT.SC.TI.COM>
Subject: Re: America
Rene,
Can you send some
more details on your request.
Thanks,
Bill Mundt
-------------------------------------
E-mail:
bmundt@MUNDT.sc.ti.com
Date: 08/11/94
Time: 12:45:52
This message was
sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 07:10:11 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Terry Southern
According to the
Times, erstwhile 60's writer and Beat comrade Terry Southern
just died at the
age of 71, while on the way to the screenwriting course he
taught at
Columbia.
Any Southern
remembrances out there? My favorite book
of his was Red-Dirt
Marijuana and
Other Tales, mostly a collection of magazine pieces. He
also wrote the
screenplays for "Dr. Strangelove" and "Easy Rider."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Should I pursue a path
so twisted?
Or should I crawl, defeated and
gifted?"
-- Patti Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:56:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Terry Southern
>Any Southern
remembrances out there?
As for memories
of Southern, I'm a bit too young. But I've been steeped in Ed
Sanders' work
this fall, and two days ago read the Terry Southern chapter in
Sanders' hilarious _Shards of God_, which takes place at the 68 Demo
convention in
Chicago. As to Southern's activities in that chapter, I'll but
point you to the
text,
saying only that
he admirably maintains the novel's high moral tone.
This morning I
remembered that I have the issue of Esquire featuring
convention
reportage by Southern, Burroughs, Jean Genet
and John Sack. I
dug it out and read the Southern first. It was his assigned
task to cover the
absurdity of the event; he was described as the "American
author most
capable of handling frenzy on a gigantic scale," yet the violence
level sickened (
and fascinated) him. In the last paragraphs of the article,
Southern is sitting
in a bar with William Styron, John Marquand Jr. and a
middle aged man
in a Hubert Humphrey banded straw hat, watching cops club
kids:
"Those damn
kids, he ( Humphrey man) muttered, "I haven't seen a clean one
yet. Then he
looked back out into the street where, at that moment, a flying
squad of blue
helmets and gas masks, clubs swinging, charged straight into a
crowd obviously
of bystanders.
"Hell,"
he grunted, "I'd just as soon live in one of those damn police states
as put up with
that kind of thing".
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:02:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Terry Southern
If I remember
correctly, Terry Southern has some nice scenes in "Burroughs
The
Movie." Maybe I'll take a look at
them tonight.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:36:41 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Dinielli
<gene_dinielli@QMBRIDGE.CALSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Beat LitServe
Subject: Time:11:34 AM
OFFICE MEMO Beat LitServe Date:10/31/95
I would like to
subscribe to your list on Beat Literature.
Gene Dinielli
gene_dinielli@qmbridge.calstate.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:54:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Beat LitServe
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:36:41 -0800
from
<gene_dinielli@QMBRIDGE.CALSTATE.EDU>
To subscribe to
Beat-l, send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
In the
body of your mail
type: subscribe beat-l first name last
name.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:11:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J. Darren Bishop"
<URJTVAB@IUP.BITNET>
Organization:
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Subject: Re: Terry Southern
Can anyone give
me more information on "Burroughs the Movie?" I would
appreciate
anything that would lead me to it. Thank
you
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:42:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Terry Southern
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:11:10 -0500
from <URJTVAB@IUP>
On Tue, 31 Oct
1995 14:11:10 -0500 J. Darren Bishop said:
>Can anyone
give me more information on "Burroughs the Movie?" I would
>appreciate
anything that would lead me to it. Thank
you
Burroughs: the
Movie. Giorno Poetry Systems Institute,
c1985. 87 minutes.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:00:53 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Terry Southern
I must say when I
saw Levi's message about Southern dying the song "If you
want it, here it
is. I can get it" immediately began to run through my
mind. I had read in the paper that Southern died
but that didn't kick in
the Badfinger
association.
This song was the
"theme song" of a movie called the Magic Christian that
starred Ringo
Starr. It was based on a Southern book
and the screenplay
was also probably
written by Southern (I don't know though).
Starr was in
another Southern
movie called Candy. I remember a scene
from Magic
Christian with
John Cleese pre-Monty Python. Cleese
played a snooty art
dealer and Ringo
Starr as the richest man alive bought an old painting.
After he bought
it he took a pair of scissors and cut out a face in the
painting and
discarded the rest of it to the apoplectic gasp of Cleese--cue
Badfinger theme
music (written by Paul McCartney).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 20:36:58 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Terry Southern
Southern read at
the NYU Beat Lit. conference in May of '94. David Amram and
his quintet were
playing and some old guy was sitting on the piano bench
doing nothing. I
was wondering who the old guy was. Then he got up to read.
It was Southern,
looking like the ghost of Paris past. He had already had one
stroke I believe.
He read a story from *Red Dirt Marijuana and Other Tastes.*
It was great to see a living legend in the
flesh and hear him read, like
seeing Fats
Domino in New Orleans and hearing him sing "Blueberry Hill."
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:00:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SangreToro@AOL.COM
Subject: alan watts
I had been trying
to get a discussion going about Alan Watts in some other
list (i now
unsubscribed fro almost all of them).
I'd be interested in
discussing him
and his works. Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:56:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: BBurg59024@AOL.COM
Subject: Subscribe Beat-LBrio B.user.
would like to
subscribe to Beat-L...and advertize New Book
with original
Lawrence Ferlinghetti drawing on the cover...
Book called
STREET KIDS AND OTHER PLAYS, author Brio Burgess, can be ordered
from the
distributor in San Bernardino,
Borgo Press, or
from City Lights Books at 261 Columbus Ave.
San Francisco,
Calif. 94133...just ask for it by name, it's in
the consignment
section...of the store...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:33:09 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tsaelinah
<serajani@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<951130.231328.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995, Peter McGahey wrote:
> Allen, Bill
and JAck were all homosexual and all had sex with each other.
> This is not
hard to find out as ever biography of them mentions it.
But jack was not
as into the whole scene as the other two..as i recall,
he had quite a
hang up about sex, homo or otherwise...
>
> Neal also
slept with them.
'sright.
>
Tsaelinah
(in a jar)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:37:15 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tsaelinah
<serajani@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: Jack's Oedipul Complex
In-Reply-To: <01HY9MXB38IAHTTLWM@SONOMA.EDU>
>
> The only
book by JK I have read and studie by JK is The Subterranians. I
First off, go
read Dharma Bums. Now. Go. Yes, you. =)
> believe that
Jesus was God. They believe that God impregnated Mary, therefore
> Jesus
impregnated Mary, his own mother. I read Oedipus four years ago, so
maybe
> Oedipus did
pierce his foot, I don't know. Does this idea hold any water?
> Please tell
me if i am wrong, but I find this very interesting.
woooaaaahhhh...
man, i never saw
that...i don't know if it's a legitimate interpretation,
but it is pretty
interesting...
i think i'm gonna
go read that oedipus rex that's been sitting in me
bookshelf for
some time....
hehehe....coool...
Tsaelinah
(in a jar)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:42:33 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tsaelinah
<serajani@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: the oedipus thang
well now...
looking in me
handy-dandy book o'greek myths, i see that YES indeedy,
Eric, Laius,
Oedipus' father, pierced his feet with a nail at his
birth...he bound
them together and then left him on Mt Cithaeron so he
wouldn't grow up
to kill Laius off...
Tsaelinah
(in a jar)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 01:44:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg
Clarification
here: I know that Ginseberg's gay and had sex with several of
our Beat fellows.
My question, which a few of your answered with clarity, had
to do with
whether or not he was having and promoting the idea of having sex
with children.
Someone pointed out that by 50's standards
he was "sexually
deviant"
simply by practicing homosexuality, and so why wouldn't he be
deviant by
today's standards? Are we really putting
having sex with boys and
having sex with
male adults on the same level of "deviance" (And just so
there's no
confusion, let me clarify that I DON'T consider
homosexuality
deviant). Does
anyone else think sleeping with children isn't a behavior we
necessarily want
in our heroes?
- Liz
"...who
journeyed to Denver, who died in Denver, who came back to Denver &
waited in vain,
who watched over Denver & brooded & loned in Denver and
finally went away
to find out the Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her
heroes...."
(from "Howl")
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 01:11:59 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: phoning Naomi
In-Reply-To:
<951130.230947.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
and after you
post the number, let's all agree on a designated time to flood his
line with prank
calls....
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995 23:08:14 -0500 (EST) BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
>
>I already
responded and put in my two cents on this topic, but let me add this:
>He is the one
that leaves his number and address listed, he must not mind. Now
>for those of
us who do not live in the area, but would still be interested in
>the public
access information, please post it.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Since it is
public access information, why don't you look it up.
>Every library
in US probably has a Manhatten phone book.
>
> Love Always,
>` Eric Simpkins
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 01:13:35 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan <Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: beatnik meets bohemian
In-Reply-To:
<951130.231920.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
I like to shop at
The Gap too....
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995 23:14:05 -0500 (EST) BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: "Darius A. Yasiejko"
<Derangel@AOL.COM>
>
>this thought
just occured to me... not that i am beating this to death, but
>did anyone ever
think that maybe the reason behind gen-x being lazy and
>sluggish...
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Lazy Gen Xers
is the same stereotyping that led to the creation of the
>dirty, dope
fiend Beatnik image that pervades the notion of the Beat
>Generation. Unfortunately many peopl e out there and on
this listseem
>to forget
that they were all artists and contributed a great deal to
>blossoming
American position in the post-WWII art world.
There was
>alot more to
them than the Beatnik, just liike the artists of Gen X
>are much more
than Kurt Cobain and other media created representatives.
>I don't know
what any other under 35's out ht there think, but I
>find it
horrible that Bret Easton Ellis and others are called the
>writers of
"our" generation.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:14:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg
It was I who put
homosexuality on the same level as pedophilia. I know, they
are not even
close but homosexuality in the fifties is similar to pedophilia
in th nineties.
Also, sure, I don't want a hero who sleeps with little boys,
but i still
admire the beat poets works and philosophies regarding life/
politics.
Love Always,
Eric Simpkins
p.s. So the only
deciding factor to whether i was right regarding the Oedipus
thing was whether
JK's father's name was Leo. Was it?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 01:19:25 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Hey Jack: don't give Mom foot massages
In-Reply-To: <01HY9MXB38IAHTTLWM@SONOMA.EDU>
interesting
theory, albeit maybe too pseudo-intellectual to take seriously, but
let's analyze,
shall we:
maybe Achilles,
whose only vulnerability was his mortal heel (or, "pierced
foot"), was
the impetus for Kerouac's Leo character...Achilles had a goddess for
a mom (not just
sexually) and her name was Thetis and she copulated with a
mortal and they
decided that Achilles would be the hero/messiah of the Greeks
and so on and so
on...well, hell, my theory deconstructs rather easily too...but
consider this:
perhaps Achilles is the Christ figure of BC Greece -- he mom is a
deity (much like
the Virgin Mary in Catholicism) and he is martyred...
I don't buy your
theory but I enjoy exchanging bullshit with you...
Cordially,
CHRIS
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995 20:40:51 -0700 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>The only book
by JK I have read and studie by JK is The Subterranians. I
>heard that
Jack's name in the book, Leo Percepied, came from his father's name,
>Leo, and
Percepoed which means "pierced foot" I can not remember any time
>Oedipus
pierced his foot, but let's look at Jesus. Jesus pierced his foot on
>the cross and
had an Oedipul Complex himself. Christians (of which JK was)
>believe that
Jesus was God. They believe that God impregnated Mary, therefore
>Jesus
impregnated Mary, his own mother. I read Oedipus four years ago, so maybe
>Oedipus did
pierce his foot, I don't know. Does this idea hold any water?
>Please tell
me if i am wrong, but I find this very interesting.
>
> Love Always,
> Eric Simpkins
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 08:50:25 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: CHANCE???
In message <C0DCBD3001C93A7C@-SMF-> BEAT-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu
writes:
>
> No Tabula
Rasa is not engraved in stone but it is a very valid theory.
>
Molly
I'm not trying to
pick a fight, but I would like to know what you mean here.
To say that something is "a very valid
theory" seems to me to be the same as
saying it is
true. Is this what you mean? I have some difficulty in seeing
this idea as more
than a hypothesis on whose behalf quite a lot of evidence
can be adduced --
would you be prepared to accept that as an assessment of
the idea of the
new born baby as a blank sheet on which anything can be
written?
I probably take
this line because I don't accept the idea.
You are into the
whole
nature/nurture debate, and it seems to me that what work has been done
on this (and it
is a lot) indicates what common sense would have suggested
anyway -- that a
great deal of what we become is induced by our own
experience of the
world around us (which is not the same as the way the
world around us
actually *is*), but some of it is just there -- we are born
with (or without
it)
--
John Lynch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 20:43:41 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: David R <uagyb@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject: Where?
Hi there,
Many years ago, I
read a passage in "Visions of Cody" which moved me
greatly. If I recall correctly, it was before Jack
catches up with Neal
(call them what
you will), and he is just describing the kind of man his
friend is. About how he can do this, and that, and looks
a certain way, and
how he can get
away with things, just generally what a great guy
Neal/Cody/Dean
is, and how Jack can't wait to catch up with him. It shows
the depth of
admiration and love that Jack held for Neal and when I read it
I was overcome by
my own understanding of this.
It may be some
time until I get the chance to read it again, and I can't
find it when I
flick through. So I wondered if any of
you can direct me to
the whereabouts
of this passage. If not, it won't be so
bad if I read it
over Christmas,
will it?
If any of you
haven't read it, do yourselves a favour...
David
PS: Pardon the
vague nature of this, but it was a while ago.
"Another fine
product from Happy Acres"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 07:37:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack's Oedipul Complex
In-Reply-To: <01HY9MXB38IAHTTLWM@SONOMA.EDU>
Laius, Oedipus'
father, pierced him through the ankles, tied his feet
together and left
him to die. It seems to me that
"Percepied" and
Oedipus'
tale--not to mention complex--are key to reading _The
Subterraneans_
and to understanding Kerouac's Oedipal problems.
Dan Terkla
Illinois Wesleyan
Univ.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 08:12:48 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack's Oedipul Complex
In-Reply-To: <01HY9MXB38IAHTTLWM@SONOMA.EDU>
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995, Mr. Congeniality wrote:
> The only
book by JK I have read and studie by JK is The Subterranians. I
> heard that
Jack's name in the book, Leo Percepied, came from his father's
name,
> Leo, and
Percepoed which means "pierced foot" I can not remember any time
> Oedipus
pierced his foot, but let's look at Jesus. Jesus pierced his foot on
> the cross
and had an Oedipul Complex himself. Christians (of which JK was)
> believe that
Jesus was God. They believe that God impregnated Mary, therefore
> Jesus
impregnated Mary, his own mother. I read Oedipus four years ago, so
maybe
> Oedipus did
pierce his foot, I don't know. Does this idea hold any water?
> Please tell
me if i am wrong, but I find this very interesting.
>
> Love Always,
> Eric Simpkins
>
Kinda. Oedipus' father has his foot pierced when he
had him (oed) hung
in the woods to
get rid of him (Oed was prophecized to "kill hjis father
and marry his
mother," of course-- thus the Oedipal complex.) Pierced,
swollen, etc.--
whatever word you want to translate-- and you get our
Greek hero's
name.
Yrs. &c.
S.J. Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:17:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Exist. & American Beats
Comments: To:
"Dan E." <D1ervin@AOL.COM>
> Dan E wrote:
> To say that
the Beat movement (literarily speaking) was not moving in the
> opposite
direction of American Existentialism is ridiculous. The Beats
> finally saw
the need (as did Whitman) for a celebration of self (as opposed
> to us all
being Invisble Men, etc.).
Existentialism took American lit.
> (primarily
fiction) dangerously close to an edge which, if pushed over, may
> have never
been able to come back from. The Beats-
not necessarily in a
> concious
effort to defend against the Existentialists- and the postmodernist
> since then
(everyone from the periphery of society: from Momaday to Silko,
> etc.) have
made a move in the very opposite direction.
Existentialism, if we
> can
approximate its center, rested mainly in mainstream culture (white,
> middlie
class). The Beats began the motion of an
outward spiral so that art
> began to
prosper in the outer edges of society.
Want proof? Who's hot?
> Native American writers, feminist writers,
African American writers, Latino
> writers? Look on the Discovery channel. Four nights out of five there is a
> show on
Indian heritage. Need I say more. Before you give up on the
> argument,
think it through.
I want to bring
up a couple of issues related to the idea that Beat
writers/Beat
writing was moving in a direction OPPOSITE that of
"American
Existentialists". Maybe it's the
idea of "American"
existentialism
that's got me hung up... are there characteristics
particular to the
American character that it integrated into European
existentialist
thinking, some sort of mutation, making an American
Existentialism to
begin with? I'm not entirely convinced from your
argument that
such a being exists.
Existentialism
was/is not a movement, philosophically or otherwise.
It was a
perception of existence than ran counter to the Hegelian
concept of
formalized philosophy. It was reaction against traditional
canons of western
philosophical thinking. A reaction. That's why you
get those like
Sartre who, for all that we've read of his work,
literarily or
formally, claimed he was not an existentialist,
because to adopt
that mantle would be to become part of the very
tradition
"existentialist" thinking sought to bring a new perspective
to. French
intellectual expression is, I think by definition, much
more formal in
its presentation anyway, so if there is a way out of
that apparent
contradiction, at least for Sartre, there it is.
Now to the idea
that the Beat phenomenon, or whatever, was something
that ran COUNTER
to existential thought:
Norman Mailer, in
his 1959 essay THE WHITE NEGRO, addresses this
issue so
succinctly (succinctly for Mailer anywway) that I would just
say, read that,
and read it closely. He seemed to have his pulse on
the nature of the
fifties counter-culture without the accompanying
baggage that
might come along with actually being an "accomplice" to
the Beat
"conspiracy".
Now he does
recognize an "American Existentialist", but contrary to
thoughts that the
Beats, literarily or otherwise, ran counter to
this, Mailer says
that the "White Negro", the Beat character, IS the
American
Existentialist:
"It is on
this bleak scene that a phenomenon has appeared: the
American
existentialist--the hipster, the man who knows that if our
collective condition
is to live with instant death by atomic war,
relatively quick
death by the State as l'univers concentrationaire,
or with a slow
death by conformity with every creative and rebellious
instinct stifled
(at what damage to the mind and the heart and the
liver and the
nerves no research foundation for cancer will discover
in a hurry), if
the fate of twentieth century man is to live with
death from
adolescence to premature senescence, why then the only
life-giving
answer is to accept the terms of death, to live with
death as
immediate danger, to divorce oneself from society, to exist
without roots, to
set out on that uncharted journey into the
rebellious
imperatives of the self...."
"To be an
existentialist, one must be able to free oneself--one must
know one's
desires, one's rages, one's anguish, one must be aware of
the character of
one's frustration and know what would satisfy it.
The overcivilized
man can be an existentialist only if it is chic,
and deserts it
quickly for the next chic. To be a real existentialist
(Sartre
admittedly to the contrary) one must be religious, one must
have one's sense
of the 'purpose'--whatever the purpose may be--but a
life which is
directed by one's faith in the necessity of action is a
life committed to
the notion that the substratum of existence is the
search, the end
meaningful but mysterious; it is impossible to live
such a life
unless one's emotion provide their profound
conviction...."
Well you get the
gist of what's happening here. Mailer's statement is
alive with all
those buzzwords associated both with an existential
profile, as well
as that associated with the mindset of the Beat as
wanderer, seeker
of truth, even religious figure (the "beatitude" of
Kerouac's
association with the word "Beat").
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 08:17:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hey Jack: don't give Mom foot
massages
In-Reply-To:
<MailDrop1.1.951201011925@st-dorms-dyn-13.baylor.edu>
On Fri, 1 Dec
1995, Chris Bryan wrote:
> let's
analyze, shall we:
>
> maybe
Achilles, whose only vulnerability was his mortal heel (or, "pierced
> foot"),
was the impetus for Kerouac's Leo character...Achilles had a goddess
for
> a mom (not
just sexually) and her name was Thetis and she copulated with a
> mortal and
they decided that Achilles would be the hero/messiah of the Greeks
> and so on
and so on...well, hell, my theory deconstructs rather easily
too...but
> consider
this: perhaps Achilles is the Christ figure of BC Greece -- he mom is
a
> deity (much
like the Virgin Mary in Catholicism) and he is martyred...
>
> I don't buy
your theory but I enjoy exchanging bullshit with you...
>
> Cordially,
> CHRIS
>
I think it is
Dionysis, God of Wine, etc. who most closely resembles
Christ-- his body
being eaten, and all, by his followers... (also Osiris
in Egypt).
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:59:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Hey Jack: don't give Mom foot massages
(fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
his mom is a
deity (much like
the Virgin Mary in Catholicism)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is totally
irrelevant to where this (and the preceeding message) meant
to go, but the
Virgin Mary is not a diety in the Catholic tradition and not
all Protestant
Christian sects believe that Jesus and God are one and the
same. Just being a nit-picking theologist.
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995 20:40:51 -0700 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>The only book
by JK I have read and studie by JK is The Subterranians. I
>heard that
Jack's name in the book, Leo Percepied, came from his father's name,
>Leo, and
Percepoed which means "pierced foot" I can not remember any time
>Oedipus
pierced his foot, but let's look at Jesus. Jesus pierced his foot on
>the cross and
had an Oedipul Complex himself. Christians (of which JK was)
>believe that
Jesus was God. They believe that God impregnated Mary, therefore
>Jesus
impregnated Mary, his own mother. I read Oedipus four years ago, so maybe
>Oedipus did
pierce his foot, I don't know. Does this idea hold any water?
>Please tell
me if i am wrong, but I find this very interesting.
>
> Love Always,
> Eric Simpkins
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:02:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: beatnik meets bohemian
In-Reply-To: <AF17BF3001C93A7C@-SMF->
Allen Ginsberg
wore khakis
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:02:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg (fwd) (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Tsaelinah <serajani@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995, Peter McGahey wrote:
> Allen, Bill
and JAck were all homosexual and all had sex with each other.
> This is not
hard to find out as ever biography of them mentions it.
But jack was not
as into the whole scene as the other two..as i recall,
he had quite a
hang up about sex, homo or otherwise...
'sright.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
'sright - you got
me on that one.
PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:14:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: who the hell is Tom Selleck?
In-Reply-To: <A317BF3001C93A7C@-SMF->
Yes it is he was
also Magnum PI
Molly
MKEckert@cedarcrest.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:20:04 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVIS ALAN
<davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Exist. & American Beats
In-Reply-To: <25920605F68@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
On Fri, 1 Dec
1995, CLAY VAUGHAN wrote:
> >
Existentialism, if we
> > can
approximate its center, rested mainly in mainstream culture (white,
> > middlie
class). The Beats began the motion of an
outward spiral so that art
> > began
to prosper in the outer edges of society.
Want proof? Who's hot?
Richard Wright
was white and middle class? Not.
Existence
precedes essence? Hardly mainstream.
>
> Norman
Mailer, in his 1959 essay THE WHITE NEGRO, addresses this
> issue so
succinctly (succinctly for Mailer anywway) that I would just
> say, read
that, and read it closely. He seemed to have his pulse on
> the nature
of the fifties counter-culture without the accompanying
> baggage that
might come along with actually being an "accomplice" to
> the Beat
"conspiracy".
>
> Now he does
recognize an "American Existentialist", but contrary to
> thoughts
that the Beats, literarily or otherwise, ran counter to
> this, Mailer
says that the "White Negro", the Beat character, IS the
> American
Existentialist:
>
> "It is
on this bleak scene that a phenomenon has appeared: the
> American
existentialist--the hipster, the man who knows that if our
> collective
condition is to live with instant death by atomic war,
> relatively
quick death by the State as l'univers concentrationaire,
> or with a
slow death by conformity with every creative and rebellious
> instinct
stifled (at what damage to the mind and the heart and the
> liver and
the nerves no research foundation for cancer will discover
> in a hurry),
if the fate of twentieth century man is to live with
> death from
adolescence to premature senescence, why then the only
> life-giving
answer is to accept the terms of death, to live with
> death as
immediate danger, to divorce oneself from society, to exist
> without
roots, to set out on that uncharted journey into the
> rebellious
imperatives of the self...."
>
> "To be
an existentialist, one must be able to free oneself--one must
> know one's
desires, one's rages, one's anguish, one must be aware of
> the
character of one's frustration and know what would satisfy it.
> The
overcivilized man can be an existentialist only if it is chic,
> and deserts
it quickly for the next chic. To be a real existentialist
> (Sartre
admittedly to the contrary) one must be religious, one must
> have one's
sense of the 'purpose'--whatever the purpose may be--but a
> life which
is directed by one's faith in the necessity of action is a
> life
committed to the notion that the substratum of existence is the
> search, the
end meaningful but mysterious; it is impossible to live
> such a life
unless one's emotion provide their profound
>
conviction...."
>
Yes, Norman, as
usual, is, beneath his bluster, right, exactly right.
Cheers.
The Moorhead
Existentialist
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:21:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Chris D."
<CSD95001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Beats and Existensialism
In reply to Dan
E.'s message on the 29th re:Existensialism:
I think this is
an interesting idea, but I fail to see why you lint the
existensialist
movement with spiritual destruction. I am moderately well
read in
existensialist literature and theory, and this is a conection that
I cannot make. I
know that a popular conception of existensialism would
claim that the
movement is little more than a wailing for a lost God, lost
life, lost
dreams...But if one were to really read closely into existensialism,
they may find a
more spiritually affirming message: It is precisely within
the struggle for
meaning and truth that we descover our own belief systems.
I don't think the
Beats and Existensials (is this a word?) are as diametrically
opposed as you
may imply. Thoughts?
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:45:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:10:14 EST from
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995 23:10:14 EST Peter McGahey said:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: "Darius A. Yasiejko"
<Derangel@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: About Ginsberg
>
> i wouldn't doubt if ginsberg and burroughs had
a sexual
>relationship
at one point....
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Allen, Bill
and JAck were all homosexual and all had sex with each other.
>This is not
hard to find out as ever biography of them mentions it.
>
>Neal also
slept with them.
I don't think
that I'd label Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady homosexual
just because they
had some homosexual experiences. Allen
Ginsberg has
had some
heterosexual experiences too. That
doesn't make him straight.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:50:05 EST
Reply-To: text@CUNYVM.BITNET
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Jack's Oedipul Complex
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 30 Nov 1995 20:40:51 -0700
from
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995 20:40:51 -0700 Mr. Congeniality said:
>The only book
by JK I have read and studie by JK is The Subterranians. I
>heard that
Jack's name in the book, Leo Percepied, came from his father's name,
>Leo, and
Percepoed which means "pierced foot" I can not remember any time
>Oedipus
pierced his foot, but let's look at Jesus. Jesus pierced his foot on
>the cross and
had an Oedipul Complex himself. Christians (of which JK was)
>believe that
Jesus was God. They believe that God impregnated Mary, therefore
>Jesus
impregnated Mary, his own mother. I read Oedipus four years ago, so maybe
>Oedipus did
pierce his foot, I don't know. Does this idea hold any water?
>Please tell
me if i am wrong, but I find this very interesting.
>
> Love Always,
> Eric Simpkins
Oedipus means
"swollen foot." His foot is
injured shortly after birth.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:55:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg (fwd) (fwd)
Okay Bill, we're
arguing semantics here, but I like that.
I'll rephrase
it as bi-sexual
or as straight with homosexual experiences.
My point here
was that the
original author was correct - they all had those experiences.
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995 23:10:14 EST Peter McGahey said:
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>
> i wouldn't doubt if ginsberg and burroughs had
a sexual
>relationship
at one point....
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Allen, Bill
and JAck were all homosexual and all had sex with each other.
>This is not
hard to find out as ever biography of them mentions it.
>
>Neal also
slept with them.
I don't think
that I'd label Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady homosexual
just because they
had some homosexual experiences. Allen
Ginsberg has
had some
heterosexual experiences too. That
doesn't make him straight.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:56:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Chris D."
<CSD95001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Beats and homosexuality
Why (as a
culture) do we feel a need to label sexuality in term of diametric
opposition?
Peter's last posting is an example of an attempt to impose a
rigid definition
on a fluid and nebulous aspect of human life (ie sexuality)
I think that if
we want to examine the sexual lives of the Beat writers, the
most telling conclusion
at which we can arive would be that it demonstrates
that, like their
writing, sexuality has become a metaphor outside the
interpretive
realm of mainstream culture. By attempting to define their
sexuality with
terms like "homosexual" or "straight" we are creating a
totalizing
discourse of institutional oppression.
Just a thought,
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:20:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: existentialism
Thanks, Clay, for
those lucid comments on American existentialism.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:36:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and homosexuality
>Why (as a
culture) do we feel a need to label sexuality in term of diametric
>opposition?
Peter's last posting is an example of an attempt to impose a
>rigid
definition on a fluid and nebulous aspect of human life (ie sexuality)
>I think that
if we want to examine the sexual lives of the Beat writers, the
>most telling
conclusion at which we can arive would be that it demonstrates
>that, like
their writing, sexuality has become a metaphor outside the
>interpretive
realm of mainstream culture. By attempting to define their
>sexuality
with terms like "homosexual" or "straight" we are creating
a
>totalizing
discourse of institutional oppression.
>Just a
thought,
>Chris
I don't know
about your more philosophical questions here but in terms of
the post that
stated Kerouac, Burroughs, Ginsberg were all homosexual you
are correct in
pointing out the flaw or limitation of that statement.
All three of
these guys had sex with women. They
would have to all be
called bisexual
if labels were to be given. Kerouac and
Cassady were
basically
heterosexual men. Both had sexual experiences with men though,
that is
true. Ginsberg on the other hand is
basically homosexual even
though he had sex
with women at times. Burroughs seems to
be the truest
bisexual of the
lot, all though I don't know that he would admit it. He
talked about how
he would go to women prostitutes when he was young because
he wanted to have
sex. He did love his wife and had a true
heterosexual
relationship with
her. Once they were even busted for being caught having
sex at the side
of the road. In Literary Outlaw there
are some interesting
anecdotes about
Burroughs and his heterosexuality. On of
his companions in
the early sixties
in London said he thought Burroughs was a latent
heterosexual. They were at a strip show once and the guy
said to burroughs
"let's get
out of here". Burroughs said,
"well let's just wait a little
while." The guy recounting the story was saying
Burroughs was quite
enjoying
himself. In a letter to kerouac,
Burroughs told him he was
considering
giving up men and going back to women. (Burroughs used a slang
word for vagina
rather than the word women). Burroughs
did have a crush
on Ginsberg in
the fifties that Ginsberg didn't really reciprocate. I
don't know if
they ever had sex, nor do I particularly care.
And in terms of
the earlier post, I do not believe Kerouac ever had sex
with Burroughs as
was stated nor did Cassady and Burroughs have sex (they
didn't
necessarily like each other all that much even as friends). Nor
Cassady and
Kerouac.
I don't think
these aspects of their lives are particularly important. I
posted this
simply for accuracy. All this
information I got from the
biographies.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:47:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hey Jack: don't give Mom foot
massages (fwd)
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>
his mom is a
>deity (much
like the Virgin Mary in Catholicism)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>This is
totally irrelevant to where this (and the preceeding message) meant
>to go, but
the Virgin Mary is not a diety in the Catholic tradition and not
>all
Protestant Christian sects believe that Jesus and God are one and the
>same. Just being a nit-picking theologist.
I appreciate this
post. But just to be even more nitpicky,
theologically
if a demonination
doesn't believe in the deity of Christ it, by definition,
would not be Christian.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:47:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHANCE???
>>Tabula
Rasa is not written in stone.
>No Tabula
Rasa is not engraved in stone but it is a very valid theory.
The deep
impression the Tabula Rasa theory has had upon you actually presents
a good argument
for its validity.
>Cage knew
that there would be sounds that he knew would occur. >Such as,
the buzz of the
lights, people giggling and moving around >in their seats,
and people
kicking seats etc. He knew that these
>were going to happen
because of his
past experiences. But, there >were
also sounds that he did
not know would
occur.
Is your last
sentence a concession that Cage, and by extension Kerouac, might
have possible
been able to use chance in their work, as you originally
asked?
I am not trying
to denigrate your ideas. Just don't be surprised when people
here disagree
with you, because to seize onto
inevitability is to deny the
validity of much
of what sparked beat literature. Why seek a return to the
uncarved block
when you can't fight tabula rasa? Why bother wondering about
your original
face before you were born?
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:57:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: cages and courageous
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.951201081612.36920B-100000@black.missouri.edu>
I buy into this
Dionysus bit...I mean: what culture DOESN'T like
transubstantiation?
CHRIS
On Fri, 01 Dec
1995 08:17:18 -0600 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>On Fri, 1 Dec
1995, Chris Bryan wrote:
>> let's
analyze, shall we:
>>
>> maybe
Achilles, whose only vulnerability was his mortal heel (or, "pierced
>>
foot"), was the impetus for Kerouac's Leo character...Achilles had a
goddess
> for
>> a mom
(not just sexually) and her name was Thetis and she copulated with a
>> mortal
and they decided that Achilles would be the hero/messiah of the Greeks
>> and so
on and so on...well, hell, my theory deconstructs rather easily
> too...but
>> consider
this: perhaps Achilles is the Christ figure of BC Greece -- he mom
is
> a
>> deity
(much like the Virgin Mary in Catholicism) and he is martyred...
>>
>> I don't
buy your theory but I enjoy exchanging bullshit with you...
>>
>>
Cordially,
>> CHRIS
>>
>I think it is
Dionysis, God of Wine, etc. who most closely resembles
>Christ-- his
body being eaten, and all, by his followers... (also Osiris
>in Egypt).
>
>Yrs. &c.
>Steven Cahn
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:59:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Easy Fit or Traditional Fit for the
ex-football player?
In-Reply-To: <0019BF3001C93A7C@-SMF->
LOL...Touche
On Fri, 01 Dec
1995 10:02:04 -0500 (EST) BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>Allen
Ginsberg wore khakis
>
>
>
>Molly
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:25:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHANCE???
In-Reply-To: <E33ABF3001C93A7C@-SMF->
JULIE
Yes I do believe
in some chance as with Cage and his Silent SOanta.
I know that
people will disagree with me that is the purpose of a debate
I firmly believe
that chance is mostly bull. There are very few events
that chance could
actually occur.
SUch as, how does
jack Kerouac write a book and say that
it was chance.
If he didn't know
the words and he didn't have any sort of experiences at
all they would
not fall into place as they did
Responses?
Molly
MKEckert@cedarcrest.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:26:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Q. Who is That Lazy Sluggish Undefined
Age Group?
A. Which one?
Why do I keep
this going? I guess I like this topic.
A question for
you, Peter or anyone, who are the writers of generation X?
Other than some of us, and Douglas Coupland,
how many can you name? Really,
not being
facetious, I'm curious. Could we try to
compile a list of both The
Writers of
Generation X and The Writers of the Beat period? I think it would
be
interesting. Any takers?
And let's drop
this lazy, sluggish thing, ok? It's one
thing to call a group
of Nazis evil
murderers and classify them as that, or a group of KKK members
on horses in
white sheets evil racists or even a lesser example a group of
loggers begging
and striking to keep their jobs selfish and unconcerened, but
to call an entire
age group something is way too bold of a statement for me
to handle.
I really liked
Chris' comment "I take personal offense -- just because I sit
in front of a
computer monitor all day and don't even bother to do anything
that takes more
energy than lighting a cigarette, slurping a Coke, and typing
on the keyboard
doesn't mean that me or my generation is lazy..."
And a note to
Chris, ciggarettes contain Vitamin C and potassium anyway, and
Cooke is a great
source of fiber, and computer X-rays actually cure brain
tumors, so you're
kinda exercising there.
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "Darius A. Yasiejko"
<Derangel@AOL.COM>
this thought just
occured to me... not that i am beating this to death, but
did anyone ever
think that maybe the reason behind gen-x being lazy and
sluggish...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lazy Gen Xers is
the same stereotyping that led to the creation of the
dirty, dope fiend
Beatnik image that pervades the notion of the Beat
Generation. Unfortunately many peopl e out there and on
this listseem
to forget that
they were all artists and contributed a great deal to
blossoming
American position in the post-WWII art world.
There was
alot more to them
than the Beatnik, just liike the artists of Gen X
are much more
than Kurt Cobain and other media created representatives.
I don't know what
any other under 35's out ht there think, but I
find it horrible
that Bret Easton Ellis and others are called the
writers of
"our" generation.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:10:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert Greer c/o CUNY
212/346-8452 (fax 8453)"
<GREER2@BMACADM.BITNET>
Register Robert
Greer CUNY 212 / 346-8452 (fax 8453)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:10:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg
All,
Are we getting
a little too coffee clatch here or is
this really important
to our
interpretation of Ginsberg as a n author?
And just how old
are these children we're talking about here?
6? 17? under
21?
I agree, nothing
wrong with homosexuality. But that is
soooooooo irrelevant.
Rita
>>Clarification
here: I know that Ginseberg's gay and had sex with several of
our Beat fellows.
My question, which a few of your answered with clarity, had
to do with
whether or not he was having and promoting the idea of having sex
with children.
Someone pointed out that by 50's standards
he was "sexually
deviant"
simply by practicing homosexuality, and so why wouldn't he be
deviant by
today's standards? Are we really putting
having sex with boys and
having sex with
male adults on the same level of "deviance" (And just so
there's no
confusion, let me clarify that I DON'T consider
homosexuality
deviant). Does
anyone else think sleeping with children isn't a behavior we
necessarily want
in our heroes?
- Liz
"...who
journeyed to Denver, who died in Denver, who came back to Denver &
waited in vain,
who watched over Denver & brooded & loned in Denver and
finally went away
to find out the Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her
heroes...."
(from "Howl")>>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:10:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats and homosexuality
ok, here's a
thought, what if we accept that we as a species are not
attracted to sexes
or genders but rather people, and that's why Bill, Jack,
Neal and Allen
were able to move beyond the fact that they all had the same
set of genetalia
and express their love for one another in a physical way?
My theory, everyone (with very few exceptions)
is bi-sexual, to conform to
the phrase, with
almost no-one being purely straigght or purely gay.
Obviously, its easy to be attracted to one sex
more than the other for
reasons of pure
sexual enjoyment and certain quirks that often divide the
genders, but do
you *love* your lover for the body or the inside? If we're
all the same
color in the dark, aren't we all the same inside without our
genatalia?
Rita
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:10:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cages and courageous
Chris said "
I buy into this
Dionysus bit...I mean: what culture DOESN'T like
transubstantiation?
"
But if we are
familiar with Tom Robbins' Jitterbug Perfume, we remember that
according to
many, Dionysius is actually the God of Drugs (incl. wine) and
the Church has
raped these stories.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:12:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert Greer c/o CUNY
212/346-8452 (fax 8453)"
<GREER2@BMACADM.BITNET>
Register Robert
Greer CUNY 212 / 346-8452 (fax 8453)
OPTIONS: ACK LOG
LONG NOTEBOOK Beat-L
Date: none
From: Robert
Greer c/o CUNY 212/346-8452 (fax 8453)
Greer at BMACADM
To: Beat Generation List Beat-L at CUNYVM
Subscribe
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Robert Greer CUNY 212 / 346-8452 (fax 8453)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:12:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert Greer c/o CUNY
212/346-8452 (fax 8453)"
<GREER2@BMACADM.BITNET>
Register Robert
Greer CUNY 212 / 346-8452 (fax 8453)
OPTIONS: ACK LOG
LONG NOTEBOOK Beat-L
Date: none
From: Robert
Greer c/o CUNY 212/346-8452 (fax 8453)
Greer at BMACADM
To: Beat Generation List Beat-L at CUNYVM
Set Beat-L Digest
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:17:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and homosexuality
In-Reply-To: <951201151050_40862254@emout05.mail.aol.com>
from "Rita T.
Friedman" at Dec 1, 95
03:10:51 pm
>
> ok, here's a
thought, what if we accept that we as a species are not
> attracted to
sexes or genders but rather people, and that's why Bill, Jack,
> Neal and
Allen were able to move beyond the fact that they all had the same
> set of
genetalia and express their love for one another in a physical way?
> My theory, everyone (with very few
exceptions) is bi-sexual, to conform to
> the phrase,
with almost no-one being purely straigght or purely gay.
> Obviously, its easy to be attracted to one
sex more than the other for
> reasons of
pure sexual enjoyment and certain quirks that often divide the
> genders, but
do you *love* your lover for the body or the inside? If we're
> all the same
color in the dark, aren't we all the same inside without our
> genatalia?
> Rita
estute
observations sister! and robbins
too....what a human....
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:13:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats and homosexuality
> My theory,
everyone (with very few exceptions) is bi-sexual, to conform to
>the phrase,
with almost no-one being purely straigght or purely gay.
> Obviously,
its easy to be attracted to one sex more than the other for
>reasons of
pure sexual enjoyment and certain quirks that often divide the
>genders, but
do you *love* your lover for the body or the inside? If we're
>all the same
color in the dark, aren't we all the same inside without our
>genatalia?
>Rita
Not to stray too
far into Lennon's Give Peace a Chance-esque chants,
I think that I'll
comment on the reply that sexuality is a very fluid
endeavor,
fact, whatever..
I must say that comment was some clip of genius. We love
because we love,
and hate because we hate.. delving too far into this is
a little silly,
and looking at it through the metaphor of water is helpful.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:13:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: cages and courageous
>Chris said
"
>I buy into
this Dionysus bit...I mean: what culture DOESN'T like
>transubstantiation?
>
>But if we are
familiar with Tom Robbins' Jitterbug Perfume, we remember
that
>according to
many, Dionysius is actually the God of Drugs (incl. wine) and
>the Church
has raped these stories.
I must have
missed too much to follow where this is headed, but I can
add a small note
that Dionysus is the patron god of theatre and
arguably the
reason theatre exists today. As for the Christians and
Catholics: there
have been two periods in history where theatre has
taken a leave of
absence for many years, thanks to the Church.
Oddly enough,
they were also revived after that period by the
Church, never the
less the Church has never looked too highly
upon the
Dionysisan stage cults for many reasons.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:13:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Hey Jack: don't give Mom foot
massages
Love the nice
GenX header.. hehe..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 20:00:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Postmodern
To my mind, pomo
is fragmentary, distrustful of overaching, totalizing
attempts; it's
assumed that such things are not possible, that a seamless
all-containing
vision necesarily leaves important things out, represses,
doesn't account
for important invisible formative conditions, etc.
"Postmodernism" is thus a kind of
contradiction in terms: any "ism" is
suspect.
Given this, I'd
say Burroughs is pomo, Kerouac, particularly in his attempt
to put all his
works together into the Duluoz Legend, a mo.
How like Proust
this attempt is,
or Joyce with his interlocking books of Ireland. Burroughs,
by comparison, is
all over the map. This is not to value
either as good or
bad -- I'd rather
read K. myself. K. certainly also has
pomo aspects: I
think Dan's point
is a good one, that pomos generally write from the margins.
Something to chew
on.
Ted P.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 20:00:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: clv100u@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
Clay,
You wrote:
>Look at the
reading. For one thing, though K appears
to have a copy
of OTR in front
of him, notice how it appears that the book is open
no more than to
the front of the inside cover. And it never changes!
He turns no
pages, and though at first I thought that maybe he had
something written
into the book that he was reading, now I think he
was just reciting
spontaneously the entire thing. Hence, the apparent
montage of
VISIONS, OTR, and whatever. There's a real interiority
about his
demeanor.
- I agree -- this
was the sense I got when I saw the reading at the TV
Museum. You're interpretation -- that it's improvised
-- fits both K's
aesthetics and
the evience of the tape. Speaking of
which, do you have a
copy of
this? I'd love to get my hands on it
myself. Could I pay you to
make me a
bootleg? (No problem if not.)
Ted Pelton
notlep@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:51:29 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tsaelinah <serajani@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Burroughs and Cassady...
In-Reply-To: <199512011734.JAA09187@hsc.usc.edu>
On Fri, 1 Dec
1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> with
Burroughs as was stated nor did Cassady and Burroughs have sex (they
> didn't necessarily
like each other all that much even as friends).
Nor
> Cassady and
Kerouac.
Heeeeeyy..now
here's something that never really hit me...
Did Cassady and
Burroughs really dislike each other..? Someone pleeeeze
elaborate....
I know in OTR
Bull criticised Dean for being too frenetic or something to
that
effect....other than that, i know little about their relationship....
Tsaelinah
(in a jar)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:08:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is ANYone going to take me up on it?
So, anyone want
to venture at listing The Significant Writers of "Generation
X" and The
Beats? I'm curious at how the two lists
would compare. Please.
((((((((((Kristen)))))))))))Thank
you and always follow the moon (Knowing it
is female),
Rita
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:37:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Risa Leshowitz
<rl5@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Existensialism
In-Reply-To:
<951201.112620.EST.CSD95001@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Help, I need to
get off this list as my mailbox can't handle the load.
If someone would
just tell me what to do, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Risa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 20:42:54 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Exist. & American Beats
Dan,
When you post
will you please use your last name or intial. There are at
least a couple of
other Dans on the list.
Best,
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:16:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg (fwd)
Good point, Bill!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:37:28 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHANCE???
In-Reply-To: <E73ABF3001C93A7C@-SMF->
On Fri, 1 Dec
1995, Eckert, Molly K wrote:
> JULIE
>
>
>
> Yes I do
believe in some chance as with Cage and his Silent SOanta.
>
> I know that
people will disagree with me that is the purpose of a debate
>
> I firmly
believe that chance is mostly bull. There are very few events
> that chance
could actually occur.
>
> SUch as, how
does jack Kerouac write a book and say
that it was chance.
> If he didn't
know the words and he didn't have any sort of experiences at
> all they
would not fall into place as they did
>
>
>
> Responses?
>
> Molly
>
>
MKEckert@cedarcrest.edu
>
Actually,
everything is chance. I could drop off
the edge into chaos
theory, but I
can't afford the headache. I'm arriving
on this thread
late, but that's
the emphasis behind cut-ups--- no?
Of course, within
chance we then find recognizable patterns, so...
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 04:08:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Meredith Blackmann
<BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
Subject: jack kerouack institute for...
a few years back
i read a magazine interview with ginsberg.
in it , he
stated that he
was teaching at a school in denver called the "jack kerouac
institute for
disembodied poetics". it take it
that if ginsberg is living in
ny, he is no
longer teaching there. does anyone know
if this school is still
around or
anything about it?
Boomshenka
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 03:57:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Meredith Blackmann
<BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
Comments: To: ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com,
Whatuv@aol.com, cooling@students.BITNET
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: pieman@calyx.com (Aron Kay)
Sender:
owner-gathering@cygnus.com
Reply-to: gathering@cygnus.com
To: gathering@cygnus.com (the pie pantry)
Date: 95-11-30
10:22:04 EST
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 30 Nov
1995 00:11:52 -0800 (PST)
From: CARA N
HENSON <uhensc00@mcl.ucsb.edu>
To: Amy Elizabeth
Clark <aclark@scs.unr.edu>
Cc: Rebecca
Addicks <addicks@sonoma.edu>, anarchy-list@cwi.nl
Subject: Fwd:
Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov
95 21:27 PST
From: Leila
Salazar <Leila.Salazar@as.ucsb.edu>
To:
umossa00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu, uwarna00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ulinbc00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uguirs00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
umeloh00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uconkm00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uhensc00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ucramm00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ucasta00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ubeand00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ucohes00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu, chuckc@as.ucsb.edu,
davidf@as.ucsb.edu,
ucarde00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
u377@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
morse@magic.geol.ucsb.edu,
uschej00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ubmarley@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ubeyev00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
umeyen00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ushieg00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uschif00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ukooda00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uraabl00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ubrade00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
umowem00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ujense01@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
useifm00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu, 6500wsh0@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu,
ugotta00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uschua01@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
udahmj00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ucartc01@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
umazed00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ucrows00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
ufulle00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uyounh00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
olson@magic.geol.ucsb.edu,
utowns00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uscher00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uswanm00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uhogaa00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uwalkt01@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
urobit03@mcl.ucsb.edu,
usvedc00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu, ukimmy@mcl.ucsb.edu,
useuss@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uscotm00@mcl.ucsb.edu, uaschb00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
bjoern@cs.ucsb.edu, uchesc00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
gallo@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu,
umeyel00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ujense01@mcl.ucsb.edu, ukoffl00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ucasej01@mcl.ucsb.edu, uelhaj00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ubornk00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ubeltj01@mcl.ucsb.edu, chelll@as.ucsb.edu,
uprojv00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
joym@as.ucsb.edu, uparem00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
usiraj00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ukrack00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ubusbd00@mcl.ucsb.edu, umassj01@mcl.ucsb.edu,
dirk@cs.ucsb.edu, ualishya@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uharrh00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
ujennc00@mcl.ucsb.edu,
uurbar00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
uhimek00@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu,
usayar01@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu
Subject: Fwd:
Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (fwd)
>X-POP3-Rcpt:
leilas@as
>Sender:
owner-bcc
>Date: Sun, 26
Nov 1995 18:11:41 +0000
>From: Erin
Obrien <erino@as.ucsb.edu>
>Subject: Fwd:
Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (fwd)
>To:
exolc@as.ucsb.edu
>cc:
bcc@as.ucsb.edu
>Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>Sender:
owner-bcc@as.ucsb.edu
>Precedence:
bulk
>X-Administrative-Requests-To:
Majordomo@as.ucsb.edu
>
>
>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 21
Nov 1995 20:02:50 -0500
>From:Td696969@aol.com
>TO: EVERYONE DATE:
11-08-95
>
TIME: 11:31
>CC:
>SUBJECT: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>PRIORITY:
>ATTACHMENTS:
>
>FYI,
>I picked this
info up from some of my friends on the net...be aware!!!!
>Steve Lucas
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>FORWARDED
FROM: Steve Lucas
>
>>>>There
is a computer virus that is being sent
across the Internet.
>If
>you
>>receive
an e-mail message with the subject line "Good Times", DO NOT
>read
>>the
message, DELETE it immediately. Please
read the messages below.
>>>>
>>>>Some
miscreant is sending e-mail under the title "good times"
>>>>nation-wide. If you get anything like this, DON'T DOWN LOAD >>>THE
>FILE!
> It has a
virus that rewrites your hard drive,
>>>>obliterating
anything on it. Please be careful and
forward this
>>>>mail
to anyone you care about--I have.
>>>>
>>>>WARNING!!!!!!!!!:
INTERNET VIRUS
>>>>
>>>>The
FCC released a warning last Wednesday
concerning a
>>>>matter
of major importance to any regular user
of the InterNet.
>>>>Apparently,
a new computer virus has been engineered by
a
>>>>user
of America Online that is unparalleled in
its destructive
>>>>capability. Other, more well-known viruses such as
Stoned,
>>>>Airwolf,
and Michaelangelo pale in comparison to the
>>>>prospects
of this newest creation by a warped mentality.
What
>>>>makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is
the fact that no
>>>>program
needs to be exchanged for a new computer
to be
>>>>infected. It can be spread through the existing e-mail
systems
>>>>of
the InterNet. Once a computer is
infected, one of several
>>>>things
can happen. If the computer contains a
hard drive, that
>>>>will
most likely be destroyed. If the program is not stopped, the
>>>>computer's
processor will be placed in an nth-complexity
>>>>infinite
binary loop - which can severely
damage the
>>>>processor
if left running that way too long. Unfortunately, most
>>>>novice computer
users will not realize what is happening until
>>>>it
is far too late. Luckily, there is one sure means of detecting
>>>>what is now known as the "Good Times"
virus. It always travels
>>>>to
new computers the same way in a text e-mail message with
>>>>the
subject line reading
simply "Good Times".
Avoiding
>>>>infection
is easy once the file has been received
- not reading
>>>>it. The act of loading the file into the mail
server's ASCII buffer
>>>>causes
the "Good Times" mainline program to initialize and
>>>>execute.
The program is highly intelligent - it
will send copies of
>>>>itself
to everyone whose e-mail address is contained in a
>>>>received-mail
file or a sent- mail file, if it can find one.
It will
>>>>then
proceed to trash the computer it is running on.
The bottom line
>>>>here
is - if you receive a file with the subject line "Good
>>>>Times",
delete it immediately! Do not read
it! Rest assured
>>>>that
whoever's name was on the "From:" line was surely struck
>>>>by
the virus. Warn your friends and local
system users of this
>>>>newest
threat to the InterNet! It could save them a lot of time
>>>>and
money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Donna
Caissie, Office Manager
>>UltraNet
Communications
>>The
Premier Internet Access Provider in New England!
>>
>>
>Michael
Murphy
>Director of
High Speed Access
>UltraNet
Communications, Inc.
>508-229-8400
x3020
>
>
>------
Message Header Follows ------
>Received:
from gatekeeper.hphc.org by mail.whdh.com
> (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.7 for Windows
NT(tm))
> id AA-1995Nov08.112515.1431.1603; Wed, 08 Nov
1995 11:25:15 -0500
>Received:
from hpu.hchp.org by gatekeeper.hphc.org;
>(5.65/1.1.8.2/04May95-0153PM)
> id AA26567;
Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:33:55 -0500
>Received:
from ccmail.hchp.org by hpu.hchp.org with SMTP
>
(1.37.109.14/16.2) id AA143977757; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:22:37 -0500
>Received:
from ccMail by ccmail.hchp.org
> (IMA Internet Exchange 1.04b) id ebfa6740;
Tue, 8 Nov 94 11:25:24 -0500
>Mime-Version:
1.0
>Date: Wed, 8
Nov 1995 11:20:26 -0500
>Message-Id:
<ebfa6740@hchp.org>
>From:
Beverly_Lucas@hchp.org (Beverly Lucas)
>Subject:
Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>To:
slucas@whdh.com
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>Content-Description:
cc:Mail note part
>
>
>
>
>
Leila Salazar
A.S.
Environmental Affairs Board Chair
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 04:29:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Meredith Blackmann <BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: who the hell is Tom Selleck?
the mustached guy
from magnum p.i.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:20:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHANCE??? (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I know that
people will disagree with me that is the purpose of a debate
I firmly believe
that chance is mostly bull. There are very few events
that chance could
actually occur.
SUch as, how does
jack Kerouac write a book and say that
it was chance.
If he didn't know
the words and he didn't have any sort of experiences at
all they would
not fall into place as they did
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer this
would be to solve all the problems the literary critics
have been
attacking for the past hundred years.
Without going into
Derrida,
Saussure, Jakobson and Russian Formalism all the way through
Foucault and
deconstuctionism etc I could not even begin to address
the entire notion
that a writer may not have control over the
art she
produces. Before you jump on me - these
are the views of the
leading crit
theories , not MINE. Anyway, if I could
properly answer
that question, I
wouldn't be in grad school , I'd be world renowned.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:27:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for...
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 2 Dec 1995 04:08:34 -0500
from
<BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
On Sat, 2 Dec
1995 04:08:34 -0500 Meredith Blackmann said:
>a few years
back i read a magazine interview with ginsberg.
in it , he
>stated that
he was teaching at a school in denver called the "jack kerouac
>institute for
disembodied poetics". it take it
that if ginsberg is living in
>ny, he is no
longer teaching there. does anyone know
if this school is still
>around or
anything about it?
>
>Boomshenka
The school is the
Naropa Institute in Boulder, CO.
Ginsberg still teaches ther
e, mostly during
the summers when he's not teaching at Brooklyn College.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:29:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Q. Who is That Lazy Sluggish Undefined
Age Group? (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
A question for
you, Peter or anyone, who are the writers of generation X?
Other than some of us, and Douglas Coupland,
how many can you name? Really,
not being
facetious, I'm curious. Could we try to
compile a list of both The
Writers of
Generation X and The Writers of the Beat period? I think it would
be
interesting. Any takers?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm on my way out
the door so excuse the brevity of this list:
Besides Coupland
and Easton Ellis who we mentioned, there's Steven Gibb, Nancy
Smith, David
Gross, Sophronia Scott, Jill Eisenstadtm, and some would list
Jay McNerny -
Remember, these are those that the Man says are Gen X writers
as I mentioned
earlier, I debate the validity of saying that some of them
have any idea
what the generation they stand for is all about.
I would be
willing to add Michael Chabon to the list as well.
What do you
think? Any connection between any of
them and the Beats other
than the break
away from society connection?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:31:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: American existentialism
Last night I was
reading the Whitney catalogue, "Beat Culture and the
New America
1950-1965" when I came across this passage on page 29:
"Sociologicaly,
the Beats were the first large, self-conscious, and
widely publicized
group of middle-class dropouts and have sometimes been
called American
existentialists. They indeed shared a
sense of acute
alienation, of
the absurd, and a belief in the importance of individual
action with their
European counterparts. However, the
Beats also
inherited a long
tradition of dissent in America that runs from Emerson
and Thoreau and
Whitman to the pioneer outlaw--a tradition of the
individual
forging an independent way against the majority. In fact,
the Beat spirit
can be traced back to the old pioneer and cowboy notion
of the excitable,
intense, and independent personality exemplified by
frontier
America. By the 1950s, this spirit of
self-invention and
anti-assimilation
was ready for renewal." What do you
think?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:06:58 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVIS ALAN
<davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for...
In-Reply-To:
<951202040831_41594049@emout06.mail.aol.com>
It's the creative
writing program - ba, mfa - at the naropa institute in
boulder,
colorado.
On Sat, 2 Dec
1995, Meredith Blackmann wrote:
> a few years
back i read a magazine interview with ginsberg.
in it , he
> stated that
he was teaching at a school in denver called the "jack kerouac
> institute
for disembodied poetics". it take
it that if ginsberg is living in
> ny, he is no
longer teaching there. does anyone know
if this school is still
> around or
anything about it?
>
> Boomshenka
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:32:22 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: skinny legs and all
What was it
somebody said about Tom Robbins? That he is a false Vonnegut? No,
I don't think
that's right. That's a rash assessment by someone who most
likely has not
read much of Robbins' work. Really Robbins is more like Thomas
Wolfe on acid. Or
like Brautigan without a drinking problem. Or Kerouac with
a healthy libido.
He's the professor who got into the mushrooms. He's the
journalist who
stared too long at the moon. He's the novelist who worships
the goddess. As far as his plots being contrived, I guess
that's a matter of
taste. For me all
of his work is strong and fully realized except for *Still
Life with
Woodpecker* and his latest, *Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas*, both of
which have some
good bits but are not successful novels. The real connection
between Robbins
and the Beats is in their expression of Joy. Check out
Kerouac's "
The Origins Of Joy In Poetry" at the beginning of *Scattered
Poems*. Though
Robbins' compositional strategy is almost the opposite of
Kerouac's -- he
writes very slowly and revises as he goes -- they share an
affinity for Holy
Lunacy and the Infinite Goof.
Best,
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:44:54 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Buddhism once more
Actually Kerouac
hitched a bit and Snyder hitched more than a little. More on
this later.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:51:28 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
One of my
computer expert friends tells me there really is no Good Times
virus. The alert
is bogus and is sort of a virus in itself.
Best,
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:18:23 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Derek Teslik
<dteslik@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Virus ALERT -> "Good Times Virus
a confirmed hoax
The good times
virus is a confirmed hoax that's been going around for (2
years?). don't
forward that message to anyone.
-derek
--------------
Derek Teslik | "The young are the only ones who bring
Helter Skelter
Magazine | anything into this world, and they are not
3519 Woodbine
St. | young for long"
Chevy Chase, MD
20815 | -William S. Burroughs
--------------
--DTeslik@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:09:54 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: skinny legs and all
Comments: To: Dan
Barth <Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org>
In-Reply-To: <155029407.118643714@RedwoodFN.org>
On Sat, 2 Dec
1995, Dan Barth wrote:
> What was it
somebody said about Tom Robbins? That he is a false Vonnegut? No,
> I don't
think that's right. That's a rash assessment by someone who most
> likely has
not read much of Robbins' work. Really Robbins is more like Thomas
> Wolfe on
acid. Or like Brautigan without a drinking problem. Or Kerouac with
> a healthy
libido. He's the professor who got into the mushrooms. He's the
> journalist
who stared too long at the moon. He's the novelist who worships
> the
goddess. As far as his plots being
contrived, I guess that's a matter of
>
> Best,
>
> Dan B.
>
During my time
living in Seattle, I heard many stories about the good Mr.
Robbins-- whose
work is grand, indeed. The vast majority
were along the
lines of,
"He's not very interesting and never speaks. I think he's
afraid he'll use
up a good bit that could go in a book."
Since I was never
in the same room with him, that I know of, that was all
right with
me. But, really, you don't like
"still life?" What about the
stand of the
"outlaw," certainly a wild anti-hero for our time.
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:28:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for...
boomshenka-
yes, it's called
Naropa! By the way, all -- check out
interview with
post-Beat Naropa
head (and fine poet -- I wouldn't want to compete with her
in a slam) Anne
Waldman in the latest AWP Chronicle.
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:29:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHANCE??? (fwd)
>To answer
this would be to solve all the problems the literary critics
have been
attacking for the past hundred years.
Without going into
Derrida,
Saussure, Jakobson and Russian Formalism all the way through
Foucault and
deconstuctionism etc I could not even begin to address
the entire notion
that a writer may not have control over the
art she produces.
------------------------------------------
And not only
these folks, but a whole history of "poetics" authors (such as
found in Poetics
of the New American Poetry, Donald Allen, ed. -- a great
place for anyone
interested in any of these writers to start: Charles Olson,
Robert Creeley,
Ginsburg, Ed Dorn, etc.) and theorizers of improvisation in
all of the arts
of the Post-WWII era: Cage, Pollock, Charlie Parker & Dizzy
Gillespie
(theorizers as practitioners, if you will).
Clark Coolidge. Amiri
Baraka. Creeley's intro to Olson's Selected Prose too
is a short, concise
introduction to
these issues. Anyone/anything else
anyone can name? I think
that through jazz
something of this aesthetic has ended up in Spike Lee.
Even Malcolm X himself, whose jazz-influenced
thought I believe has yet to
really be noticed
in this context, once said: "My life has been a chronology
of changes"
-- to me this suggests that intellectual life itself (not just
art) can be lived
(is BEST lived) a a moment to moment negotiation with new
conditions --
like jazz, like Olson's "field," etc., etc.
[To the list: I'm
writing a novel about these connections, particularly white
and black
exchange over such artistic concerns which then become much more.
Any suggestions, connections anyone can suggest
would be helpful to me.]
: So you see,
Molly, beating us over the head with your tabula rasa isn't
going to make
these folks go away. If you want to read
the theory, which is
persuasive, you
can go the philosophical-lit crit direction or the
poetics-aesthetics
route, or a little of both (Foucault's "What is an
Author?"
essay in _The Order of Things_ is another easy entry, as is a lot of
Roland Barthes,
who talks too about photography in a like context -- gee,
this is getting
extensive ...). Either way, the body of
thought about what
is too
reductively simply called "chance" in all forms of making art is
formidable.
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:21:45 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: WSB and gins photo: 206 Montgomery
In-Reply-To:
<951201161644_122275686@emout05.mail.aol.com>
just bought
ginsberg's photo collection of the beats and in the intro, a.g.
talks about how
in late 50s, he and burroughs were definitely having an affair
and how he used
the intimacy issue to photograph burroughs, nude and otherwise,
but was really
interested in collecting them for himself...i think that pretty
well proves that
burroughs and gins, at 1 time at least, had a sexual
rel'ship...
CHRIS
On Fri, 01 Dec
1995 16:16:47 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>Good point,
Bill!
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:25:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: ticket back
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.951202120625.31853B-100000@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
doesn't he teach
summer courses in naropa but still has a nice tenured plush
salary position
at brooklyn college?
lump
CHRIS
On Sat, 02 Dec
1995 12:06:58 -0600 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>It's the
creative writing program - ba, mfa - at the naropa institute in
>boulder,
colorado.
>
>On Sat, 2 Dec
1995, Meredith Blackmann wrote:
>
>> a few
years back i read a magazine interview with ginsberg. in it , he
>> stated
that he was teaching at a school in denver called the "jack kerouac
>>
institute for disembodied poetics".
it take it that if ginsberg is living in
>> ny, he
is no longer teaching there. does anyone
know if this school is still
>> around
or anything about it?
>>
>>
Boomshenka
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:32:56 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: numbers & the monkeys
In-Reply-To: <30BFCA63@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
cromwell's
puritanism doesn't qualify as a "church" though it was tyrranical
enough...
On Sat, 02 Dec
1995 11:13:31 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>>Chris
said "
>>I buy
into this Dionysus bit...I mean: what culture DOESN'T like
>>transubstantiation?
>>
>>But if we
are familiar with Tom Robbins' Jitterbug Perfume, we remember
>that
>>according
to many, Dionysius is actually the God of Drugs (incl. wine) and
>>the
Church has raped these stories.
>
>I must have
missed too much to follow where this is headed, but I can
>add a small
note that Dionysus is the patron god of theatre and
>arguably the
reason theatre exists today. As for the Christians and
>Catholics:
there have been two periods in history where theatre has
>taken a leave
of absence for many years, thanks to the Church.
>
>Oddly enough,
they were also revived after that period by the
>Church, never
the less the Church has never looked too highly
>upon the
Dionysisan stage cults for many reasons.
>
> ..Critter
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:55:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is ANYone going to take me up on it?
Douglas Copeland
(obviously) & Quinten Terrentino.
My own book shelf
is lined with Armistead Maupin, probably the wrong age to
be considered a
voice of our generation, but maybe he should be. I heard him
talk recently,
and he said people are always asking him, "How do you write so
well about
straight people? How do you write so well about women? How do you
write so well
about little people?" (his last book was about a 31" tall
woman). And
Maupin's response to all of this was, "It's not about being
straight or gay
or male or female or tall or small: it's about being human.
And that's what
I'm writing about.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:59:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for...
The school is the
Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poets, a division of the
Naropa Institute
in Boulder. Ginsberg helped found it in 1974 (I think).
Ginsberg is on
the Board, but is not currently teaching. In 1994, Naropa
hosted a tribute
to Ginsberg called "Beats and Other Rebel Angels." There's a
very good article
about it in the July 1994 issue of Shambhala Sun. In
includes an
article written by Ginsberg, several pictures of the Beat
fellows, and
poetry by people from the Kerouac School. Let me know if you
want more
information on how to get this mag.
Namaste, Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:12:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB and gins photo: 206 Montgomery
More about the
photo collection, please! Where can I get it, how much does it
cost, etc....
Thanks! - Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:39:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Beats/Existentialists
In-Reply-To:
<951202181248_123181710@mail06.mail.aol.com> from "Liz
Prato" at
Dec 2, 95 06:12:49 pm
One final thing
about the Beats and Existentialism ... I'm just now reading
"Minor
Characters" by Joyce Johnson for the first time, and she mentions
Kerouac heavily
digging Kierkegaard. Who was, of course,
the first
existentialist
philosopher.
I've always seen
the American Beats, the French "Existentialists" of the
postwar era
(Sartre, Camus) and the "Angry Young Men" of Britian as a
triple
manifestation of the same rebellion, though of course the differences
are as
interesting as the similarities between these three literary groups.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Some people like to go
out dancing,
but other people like us, they
gotta work
And there's even some evil
mothers
who'll tell you life is just made
out of dirt
That women never really
faint
that villians always blink
their eyes
That children are the only ones
who blush
and that life is just a dive
..."
-- Velvet
Underground, "Sweet Jane"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:35:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: paul a weinfield
<pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHANCE??? (fwd)
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<951202162905_123113044@emout05.mail.aol.com>
whoever wrote that message about the history
of literary criticism from
de saussure to
foucault has my applause. the fact of
the matter is that
the question
"does an author have control over the writing that he/she
produces" is
what, in buddhist metaphysics, is called a "non-evident
question,"
that is, a question which must be specified and honed down
before any answer
can be given...
the fact of the matter is that no one has
defined what an individul author
is, whether we
are talking about a situation like harold bloom talks
about in
"the anxiety of influence" or whether we are viewing art as a
societal
"production" as marx would.
likewise, we cannot say what art
actually is. phenomenologists would argue that art is a
mutual creation
of the writer and
reader. formalists would argue that art
exists
independent of
either. what i'm trying to say here by
rattling off all
these theories is
that the Tabula Rasa question IS MOOT!!!
i do not mind analyzing art with intellectual
terms per se, but if you
are going to do
it, you must be precise; for, if we are going to take
passionate work
and subject it to dry, academic criteria, we better be
accurate and
thorough in the procedure that we use.....
just a thought,
paul
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 21:28:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: skinny legs and all
Oh no!!!!!!! Not
my Tommy! Tommy would never act THAT
way!
but p-shaw! He's still a great writer, and I *liked*
still life.....
False Vonnegut my
butt! Although I wouldn't call him anyone other than tom
robbins....
Rita
PS A big hello to Lapis, whose email always
makes me feel good.
********************************************************PREVIOUS
MESSSAGE************************************
On Sat, 2 Dec
1995, Dan Barth wrote:
> What was it
somebody said about Tom Robbins? That he is a false Vonnegut?
No,
> I don't
think that's right. That's a rash assessment by someone who most
> likely has
not read much of Robbins' work. Really Robbins is more like
Thomas
> Wolfe on
acid. Or like Brautigan without a drinking problem. Or Kerouac
with
> a healthy
libido. He's the professor who got into the mushrooms. He's the
> journalist
who stared too long at the moon. He's the novelist who worships
> the goddess. As far as his plots being contrived, I guess
that's a matter
of
>
> Best,
>
> Dan B.
>
During my time
living in Seattle, I heard many stories about the good Mr.
Robbins-- whose
work is grand, indeed. The vast majority
were along the
lines of,
"He's not very interesting and never speaks. I think he's
afraid he'll use
up a good bit that could go in a book."
Since I was never
in the same room with him, that I know of, that was all
right with
me. But, really, you don't like
"still life?" What about the
stand of the
"outlaw," certainly a wild anti-hero for our time.
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:21:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Amiri Baraka
I had a chance to
hear Amiri Baraka read today at Vertigo Books in Wash. DC.
For the
untutored, Baraka was once known as "LeRoi Jones" and was closely
associated with
the beats and the East Village scene in the fifties and early
sixties. He edited Yugen, a seminal beat literary journal (anyone know
where I can find some
old copies ?), is a fine poet and probably the leading
blues/jazz
writer, along with Nat Hentoff, of the time.
Certainly Baraka is
the leading
African-American beat, along with Ted Johns and Bob Kaufmman to
name two. Yes, he knew Jack, Allen, et al. I'm not sure how he views that
experience today.
I won't attempt
to describe the rest of Baraka's life to date.
Anyway, he has a
new volume of collected poems, "Transbluesency".
Bakaka has a lot
of rage, a "be-bop" sensibility combined with a sharp wit
and fine sense of
humor. He is an unabashed
"communist" - something of an
oddity outside of
the ivory tower these days and, in my opinion, an ideology
that has been
throughly discredited more times than there are seconds in a
milenium.
But it is a joy
to hear him read as he combines the horror and pain of
slavery and
opression with the beat of the jazz masters, a phoenix of joy out
of a bloody but
vital and sometimes heroic history. He
is, perhaps, one of
the most self
rightious speakers I have ever heard. He
knows where he stands
and expresses it
well. Baraka does not kiss anybody's
ass.
I asked him how
he feels about the upcoming On The Road film.
He was not
aware of it. He
said they would probably not do the book justice but respects
Coppola.
Check him out if
he comes to your town.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:22:41 +0900
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Kelim
<jimkelim@NEPTUNE.CISP.KANAZAWA-IT.AC.JP>
Subject: Kerouac and Buddhism
Some thoughts on
Kerouac's and the other Beats' Buddhism.
It seems strange
to me to question
the integrity of another person's spiritual path.
Someone
suggesting that Kerouac should have done this or done that. He was
not a religious
leader, he was an artist and those are two very different
things and should
not be confused. Most people do not pick their religious
or spiritual path
as intellectual exercise. We sift
through what is
presented to us
and choose with our hearts. I don't
think that the Beats
really set out to
create a "new" religion: a new way of life maybe. Which
ever path JK took
only he can say if it was right or wrong because it was
his path. However, it would seem natural to look to the
East if the
answers aren't
found in the West and they aren't.
Buddhism is not the
providence of one
nation or one culture. Remember, it
started in the
Nepal/India
region and moved to Japan through China and Korea. In was only
natural for it to
keep moving east and cross the Pacific Ocean to be
embraced by
people who are (or were in JK's case) on a spiritual search.
Some people will
embrace Buddhism a hundred percent like Gary Snyder (to
mention someone
we all know, others like JK will take what they need and
then move on-or
back to something more familiar. Which
path is right?
Both and
neither. Look at Bob Dylan, he first
went to Christianity and
then to
Judaism. Do we criticize him because
first he is Christian and
then he's not and
now he is something else. It's his
search, not ours.
I wonder just
what is Dan's problem with Buddhism anyway. Are the Buddha's
teaching corrupt
or is it the religion? From what
personal experience is
he talking
from. I know many Buddhist monks, both
here in Japan and in
Korea (where I
lived for five years) and I have never found a corrupt monk
yet. Some were not devout, some were not concerned
with the "religion" at
all, but with the
dharma. Some were concerned with
drinking and their
girlfriends. They reminded me of religious leaders in
America. Some were
devout while some
were not. However, the teachings of
Buddha separate
themselves from
the religion because they themselves are not corrupt. And
to say that the
beats should have created their own superior religion (kind
of
ethnocentristic don't you think) is naive.
None of the beats are on the
level of Buddha
and other great religious leaders. Great
artists maybe.
Great religious
leaders-no way. JK seemed to be weary of
being called King
of the Beats and
any other leadership role. His was a
singular path. But
what a path. Personally, I am glad he took the one that he
did. His
influence as well
as the Buddhist influence has certainly made my life more
interesting.
Besides being
critical of theBeats for being into Buddhism is like saying
the Rolling
Stones are a great band, but too bad they play rock-n-roll.
Without Buddhism,
the Beats would have been a different animal altogether.
Just as if they
hadn't done the drugs.
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 21:48:00 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Frick
<williamf@HEVANET.COM>
Subject: Re: American existentialism
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95120211381850@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
I like it.
On Sat, 2 Dec
1995, Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
wrote:
>Last night I
was reading the Whitney catalogue, "Beat
Culture and the
>New America
1950-1965" when I came across this passage on
page 29:
>"Sociologicaly,
the Beats were the first large,
self-conscious,
and
>widely
publicized group of middle-class dropouts and have
sometimes been
>called
American existentialists. They indeed
shared a
sense of acute
>alienation,
of the absurd, and a belief in the importance
of individual
>action with
their European counterparts. However,
the
Beats also
>inherited a
long tradition of dissent in America that runs
from Emerson
>and Thoreau
and Whitman to the pioneer outlaw--a tradition
of the
>individual
forging an independent way against the majority.
In fact,
>the Beat
spirit can be traced back to the old pioneer and
cowboy notion
>of the
excitable, intense, and independent personality
exemplified by
>frontier
America. By the 1950s, this spirit of
self-invention
and
>anti-assimilation
was ready for renewal." What do you
think?
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 01:18:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHANCE??? (fwd)
What in the world
are "Buddhist Metaphysics"?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 02:39:10 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: cone of the world
In-Reply-To:
<951202181248_123181710@mail06.mail.aol.com>
called SNAPSHOT
POETICS with never before released photos from ginsberg's
archives of
beats, from '47 until '93 and they are so cool...found it in
university
bookstore...cost: $12.95 and it was awesome...it is authored by AG
with intro/ed. by
K.Kohler...will send more info upon specific request
cdb
On Sat, 02 Dec
1995 18:12:49 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>More about
the photo collection, please! Where can I get it, how much does it
>cost, etc....
Thanks! - Liz
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:16:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Darius A. Yasiejko"
<Derangel@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB and gins photo: 206 Montgomery
it is called
" snap shot poetics" and is in the photography section of pretty
much any large
book store... ginsberg is considered the author....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:13:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Subject: Baraka
I saw Baraka read
last year in Richmond, VA and was not all that impressed. I
think the reading
was tainted by the write up in the program which stressed
that he had
"denounced" the beats and was born again into his African-
American heritage
and that he was not the same man who married a white woman
(which he did) in
the 1950's.
I just don't
understand why he had to throw the entire part of his life that
was
"beat" out the window in order to appreciate his heritage. I found
that
very
disappointing.
Kirsten
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:49:57 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: CHANCE???
In your message
dated Tuesday 28, November 1995 you wrote :
> I
believe...that there is no such thing as chance. Everything stems from some
> sort of
experience. Our whole life has been
experience after experience. If
> he says that
it is chance it is probably a subconcious memory or experience >
> that is being written down onto his paper.
There is nothing
*but* chance in life. Life is
chance. OK, it may be that what
is 'experience'
stems from a chance happening to ourselves or to our ancestors
but it is (was)
chance. It was chance that your parents
met one another (not
meant as a
flame!)...
I'd like to
expand on this later.
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:11:04 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: me and Cezanne
In-Reply-To: <951202181248_123181710@mail06.mail.aol.com>
$12.95...SNAPSHOT
POETICS...ginsberg authored... 1993/4 was publication
date...if you
can't find it at the bookstore of your choice, go to a national
chain like Barnes
& Noble or BDalton or something and ask them to look on the
books in print
list and order one for you...I work at a bookstore and i've done
this for people
all the time
CHRIS
On Sat, 02 Dec
1995 18:12:49 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>More about
the photo collection, please! Where can I get it, how much does it
>cost, etc....
Thanks! - Liz
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:13:53 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Leroi Jones
In-Reply-To: <9512031818.AA14023@cabell.VCU.EDU>
and the fact that
he [Baraka] hates Stanley Crouch, outspoken cultural critic
and former
VILLAGE VOICE writer and present collaborator with Wynton Marsalis,
is a definite
turn-off...
On Sun, 03 Dec
1995 13:13:42 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>I saw Baraka
read last year in Richmond, VA and was not all that impressed. I
>think the
reading was tainted by the write up in the program which stressed
>that he had
"denounced" the beats and was born again into his African-
>American
heritage and that he was not the same man who married a white woman
>(which he
did) in the 1950's.
>
>I just don't
understand why he had to throw the entire part of his life that
>was
"beat" out the window in order to appreciate his heritage. I found that
>very
disappointing.
>
>Kirsten
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:20:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: grohl
Comments: To:
"L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8b)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <01HYDGM33TBMAUXJ2J@baylor.edu>
LIZ:
if you could,
please send info on mag re: naropa pronto
CHRIS
On Sat, 02 Dec
1995 17:59:59 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
>Generation
List) wrote:
>
>>The
school is the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poets, a division of the
>>Naropa
Institute in Boulder. Ginsberg helped found it in 1974 (I think).
>>Ginsberg
is on the Board, but is not currently teaching. In 1994, Naropa
>>hosted a
tribute to Ginsberg called "Beats and Other Rebel Angels." There's a
>>very good
article about it in the July 1994 issue of Shambhala Sun. In
>>includes
an article written by Ginsberg, several pictures of the Beat
>>fellows,
and poetry by people from the Kerouac School. Let me know if you
>>want more
information on how to get this mag.
>>
Namaste, Liz
>>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:47:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: me and Cezanne
In-Reply-To: <910AC23001C93A7C@-SMF->
CHRIS
What does this
have to do with Cezanne???
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:49:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHANCE??? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <DCE3C13001C93A7C@-SMF->
DEAR
TED
I am not trying
to beat anyone over the head. I am just
trying to
express my
opinions of what I believe chance to be.
This expression
stems from ideas
that I have learned in both literature and art classes
MOLLY
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:58:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for...
In-Reply-To:
<951202175958_123172981@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Liz
Prato" at
Dec 2, 95 05:59:59 pm
->has anyone
heard of a book called 'Go' by John Clellon Holmes?\
(Chas.Jarvis
writes of it in his 'Visions of Kerouac'.
>
> The school
is the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poets, a division of the
> Naropa
Institute in Boulder. Ginsberg helped found it in 1974 (I think).
> Ginsberg is
on the Board, but is not currently teaching. In 1994, Naropa
> hosted a
tribute to Ginsberg called "Beats and Other Rebel Angels." There's a
> very good
article about it in the July 1994 issue of Shambhala Sun. In
> includes an
article written by Ginsberg, several pictures of the Beat
> fellows, and
poetry by people from the Kerouac School. Let me know if you
> want more
information on how to get this mag.
>
Namaste, Liz
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:58:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: grohl
Chris (and anyone
else who's interested),
Shambhala Sun is
a modern Buddhist Mag - very cool stuff, and they're soooo
enlightened that
they even have e-mail! Shambhsun@aol.com. I know they're set
up so you can
order past issues & you'd probably still be able to get that
July 1994 issue
with Ginsberg on the cover if that's what you're interested
in. Incase you
need it, their snail-mail address is: 1345 Spruce St, Boulder,
CO 80302-4886.
They're published bi-monthly at a cost of $20 a year, but
sometimes have
special first time rates. Hope you like it! (I should get a
comission for
that pitch).
Namaste, Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:11:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Buddhism
I agree with Jim
- it doesn't seem fair to be critical of Jack to have stuck
exclusively to
strict Buddhism. What if he believed exclusively in one
religion and
practiced it by the book and never questioned it - he wouldn't
be the Jack
Kerouac we all know and love. Jack was writing about experience,
his own process,
not trying to be the definitive word on anything, not even
the Beat society
of which he was the epicenter. I don't
think what really
matters is what
spiritual road he took, but that he chose to embark on one in
the first place.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:43:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: jack kerouack institute for... (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
->has anyone
heard of a book called 'Go' by John Clellon Holmes?\
(Chas.Jarvis
writes of it in his 'Visions of Kerouac'.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was the first
really Beat book any of them published.
If I recall
corrected, JK was
a bit peeved that Holmes got it published before
OTR. They are a bit similar in ways (the two
books) - it's ggood though.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:45:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: firehouse
In-Reply-To: <960AC23001C93A7C@-SMF->
molly:
you can beat me
over the head with anything you want whenever you want...
CHRIS
On Sun, 03 Dec
1995 15:49:52 -0500 (EST) BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>DEAR
>
>TED
>
>
>
>I am not
trying to beat anyone over the head. I
am just trying to
>express my
opinions of what I believe chance to be.
This expression
>stems from
ideas that I have learned in both literature and art classes
>
>MOLLY
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:47:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan <Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: black glasses
In-Reply-To: <950AC23001C93A7C@-SMF->
one of gins'
captions for one of his pictures of his Lower E. Side apt. in
fifties included
an allusion to his paintings on wall, one was a portrait of
him, another was
a Cezanne print...he misleads in captions by saying: "picture
of me and
Cezanne" so I was looking frantically for AG with the dead artist in a
pic...
chris
On Sun, 03 Dec
1995 15:47:59 -0500 (EST) BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>CHRIS
>
>What does
this have to do with Cezanne???
>
>Molly
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:48:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: GO man GO
In-Reply-To: <199512040058.AA26483@world.std.com>
yeah, i think i
heard of it...
it's only the
seminal work introducing the beat movement in 1951...
On Sun, 03 Dec
1995 19:58:21 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>->has
anyone heard of a book called 'Go' by John Clellon Holmes?\
>(Chas.Jarvis
writes of it in his 'Visions of Kerouac'.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> The
school is the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poets, a division of the
>> Naropa
Institute in Boulder. Ginsberg helped found it in 1974 (I think).
>> Ginsberg
is on the Board, but is not currently teaching. In 1994, Naropa
>> hosted a
tribute to Ginsberg called "Beats and Other Rebel Angels." There's a
>> very
good article about it in the July 1994 issue of Shambhala Sun. In
>> includes
an article written by Ginsberg, several pictures of the Beat
>> fellows,
and poetry by people from the Kerouac School. Let me know if you
>> want
more information on how to get this mag.
>>
Namaste, Liz
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 23:53:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Balangue Christina A
<cbalangu@UCET.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Existensialism
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 01 Dec 1995
14:37:15 MST."
<Pine.SOL.3.91.951201143538.4412B-100000@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Me too!
If I knew how, I
would let you in on it.
I lost that first
e-mail I received that explained how to "UNSUBSCRIBE."
Well let me know.
Christina
cbalangu@ucet.ufl.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:35:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Meredith Blackmann
<BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack's Oedipul Complex
i believe
oedipus' natural parents pierced his feet when they abandoned him
on the mountain
top.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:02:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: firehouse
In-Reply-To: <E60CC33001C93A7C@-SMF->
CHRIS
Thanks for the
offer...
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:26:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: List replies
I'm glad to see
that traffic on the Beat-l list is increasing.
However,
I've noticed that
a lot of the messages posted on the list would be more
appropriate
asprivate responses or replies to a particular sender.
Please remember
to post only those replies to the list that you think
will interest all
270 subscribers.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:23:57 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <EA0CC33001C93A7C@-SMF->
>
> Molly
I'm hoping I have
the right person-- some email trouble over the weekend
has signifcantly
cleansed my files-- but, I'm curious. If
you do believe
greatly in chance
(and I think you said you came to this through study of
literature and
art)-- what about responsibility? Are we
responsible for
our actions-- or,
to keep it in terms of BEAT-L, maybe-- was the William
Tell fiasco
"chance" and should Mr. Burroughs not feel guilt?
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:54:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
Comments: To:
CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <2A4007A1FF2@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
On Mon, 4 Dec
1995, CLAY VAUGHAN wrote:
> Ahh, you
might have inadvertantly hit on something here that might
> clear up
some apparent differences of opinion folks have been having
> regarding
the notion of chance. If we use the example Steven Cahn
> suggested,
maybe there is another way to express what we are meaning
> by
"chance". Maybe it's not chance at all that we're discussing here
> (or need to
discuss): maybe it's the idea of ACCIDENT. These aren't
> synonymous,
at least in a literary vein, I don't think. And certainly
> chance
played into the notion of WSB's Wm Tell game--we're talking
> POSSIBILITY
here-- it was accident that caused Joan's death, not
> chance.
Chance is forever present, possibility is (at least mosttimes
> conceivably)
present, but accident is an outcome, a result, an end
> product of
chance.
>
> Clay
>
clv100u@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
>
My question
remains, though-- given chance, possibility, or accident-- is
Mr. Burroughs
responsible? He set up the game-- but
where does his part
and and something
else take over? I think in some writing
by him on the
subject, he does
talk about some invader feeling being present-- is this
just
avoidance? Or something else?
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:27:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <3157C33001C93A7C@-SMF->
STEVEN
Well I am not the
one who mentioned Burroughs. However,
yes I did say
taht I learned
chance through art and literature. And I
have a very
difficult time
believing in it. I do believe that some
things are
chance. Such as, meeting someone on the street that
you haven't seen for
ages or something
like that. As for being responsible for
our actions,
that is kind of
difficult. If we look at those people who have mental
disabilitites and
hurt someone or kill them can we say that they were
responsible. Or do we blame it on them being insane. Similar to what
our court systems
are trying to figure out currently for some cases.
I am not really
sure what you mean by responsibility.
That is why I gave
the example of
the person with a mental disability. We
may never know if
we are
responsible for some actions as crime and abusing others.
However, I do
believe that in some subconscious way we are responsible
for what we
do. That can be through literature, art
and music etc.
Also, I still do
believe that our society and family and environment form
us when we are
born. I do believe that we are born as a
blank slate.
Though some
people disagree with me.
Responses?
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:39:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <3357C33001C93A7C@-SMF-> from
"Eckert, Molly K" at Dec 4,
95 03:27:15 pm
> Also, I
still do believe that our society and family and environment form
> us when we
are born. I do believe that we are born
as a blank slate.
> Though some
people disagree with me.
i have to say,
that if this were the case....i would be a bigoted right-
wing conservative
nazi, with 5 children by now....on welfare.....addicted
to numerous
compulsive behavioral problems.....etc....
no....i can't say
that we are all born as a blank slate.....
look at
neal......
in his book....
here was a kid
who was beaten down...by society...by his brother....
he saw all that
was horrid and cruel in this world, and yet, he was able
to separate
himself from the pain and live.......
he wasn't a
saint.....but he knew something.....early on in life......
he was
aware......
>
> Responses?
>
> Molly
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:38:51 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <3357C33001C93A7C@-SMF->
On Mon, 4 Dec
1995, Eckert, Molly K wrote:
>
> Well I am
not the one who mentioned Burroughs.
However, yes I did say
> taht I
learned chance through art and literature.
And I have a very
> difficult
time believing in it. I do believe that
some things are
> chance. Such as, meeting someone on the street that
you haven't seen for
> I am not
really sure what you mean by responsibility.
That is why I gave
> the example
of the person with a mental disability.
We may never know if
> we are
responsible for some actions as crime and abusing others.
> However, I
do believe that in some subconscious way we are responsible
> for what we
do. That can be through literature, art
and music etc.
>
> Also, I
still do believe that our society and family and environment form
> us when we
are born. I do believe that we are born
as a blank slate.
> Though some
people disagree with me.
>
> Responses?
>
> Molly
>
Yes. I kinda thought I was wrong about who I
attributed the thread to--
my
apologies. It makes my question
concerning responsibility moot, to an
extent-- I
suspect, excluding people who are not "in command" for one
reason or another
(and how to define that is something else-- Burroughs'
state of mind at
the WmTell episode, his fault, no? So
actions therafter
his
responsibility-- and does anybody else feel bad about talking about
this incident so
coldly on the net??) that, as you say, we are
responsible.
Though, I suppose
I remain curious-- if you think we are blank slates
when born, at
what point does the "subconscious" responsibility begin--
or do we remain,
because we are just the result fo factors beyond our
control, innocent
of all charges against us? Or is it
societal "sins of
the father"
we must deal with? And, in that dealing,
do some produce the
art we're really
supposed to be talking about here?
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:44:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
Comments: To:
CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
Comments: cc:
CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
In-Reply-To: <2A6E4422F2D@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
On Mon, 4 Dec
1995, CLAY VAUGHAN wrote:
> police
reports and newspaper articles. I have read that stuff about
> his being
"invaded", something I think he's used as an M.O. in
> writing at
least some of his earlier works. He claims not to have
> remembered
writing much of NAKED LUNCH, which could always be the
> excuse of a
junkie's nodding out, but the cut ups too had much of
> their coming
about as if someone "outside" had planted the
> construction
of those words in just the right order. And again, those
> long ago
tape recording experiments Burroughs did with a microphone
> on,
recording the sounds in an "empty" room, suggest, too, this kind
> of
reasoning: that there is something "out there".
>
> He may
actually have believed the invader theory, to an extent,
> regarding
the Wm Tell incident, but I don't think this to be any more
> than a
self-defense mechanism, to spare himself some of the grief
> that
full-fledged aknowledgement of his lone responsibility would've
> brought
crashing down on him.
>
> I think that
may be what's behind the greatness in a lot of art, an
> inexplicable
aspect to a work that defies deconstruction, and commands
> acceptance
on its own terms.
>
>
> Clay
>
clv100u@mozart.fpa.odu.edu
>
What you're
referring to is the age-old idea of the muse, perhaps?
Burroughs'
"invader" idea-- which isn't the best way to put it--
his reportign for
who knows what-- is just a nuclear-aged version of the
happier, more
pleasant visions of inspiration, I think.
And, maybe that
can't be
deconstructed, at least to everyone's satisfaction.
Yrs. c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:56:22 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News
Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats/Existentialists
Message-ID:
red-34-msg951204205759MTP[01.51.00]000000a7-37481
The "triple
manifestation" idea is great, Levi!
And how these
three approaches to the rebellion are colored by their
respective
nationalities!
(I'll always
remember a teacher remarking how the beats were the last
artistic movement
that was positive -- and now in such contrast to the
angry young men
and existentialists...!)
----------
From: Levi
Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Beats/Existentialists
Date: Saturday,
December 02, 1995 4:39PM
One final thing
about the Beats and Existentialism ... I'm just now reading
"Minor
Characters" by Joyce Johnson for the first time, and she mentions
Kerouac heavily
digging Kierkegaard. Who was, of course,
the first
existentialist
philosopher.
I've always seen
the American Beats, the French "Existentialists" of the
postwar era
(Sartre, Camus) and the "Angry Young Men" of Britian as a
triple
manifestation of the same rebellion, though of course the differences
are as
interesting as the similarities between these three literary groups.
------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:58:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
Comments: To:
sjcahn <c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Yeah, Steven, the
whole idea of muse and inspiration might possibly
be anathema to
the old man's conception of his own work. He'd
probably be much
more comfortable with a more intrusive all-seeing
mind or eye
"interfering" with our thought processes in order to
create anything.
It's darker and more attune to Burroughs's vision of
things.
Clay
But by the same
token, WE might also see that interference as being
very GOD-LIKE!!
Oohhh, and would that send shivers down the old
man's spine, to
be sure.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:02:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Postmodern
>Given this,
I'd say Burroughs is pomo, Kerouac, particularly in his attempt
>to put all
his works together into the Duluoz Legend, a mo.
>Ted P.
By definition,
postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
WWII (1939-45),
by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
antinovel-esque,
Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
to surrealism and
poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
a
"spawn" of the movement.
So not only
Burroughs and Kerouac et al, but John Cage, Jean-Luc Godard,
and the works of
Jorge Luis Borges, Thomas Pynchon, Roland Barthes,
and others.
By my source,
mind you.. not that I'm too familiar with the last three
names.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:19:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We Killed Chance!!!!!!!!
Hello All-
>>>i
have to say, that if this were the case....i would be a bigoted right-
wing conservative
nazi, with 5 children by now....on welfare.....addicted
to numerous
compulsive behavioral problems.....etc....>>>>
Oh c'mon,
now. Is this a plea for pity? Perhaps the idea of being molded
was meant in
another sense also. The one that you
grow up dissatisfied with
what surrounds
you, and you vow to make yourself different ("I swear that
when I have
kids...")
>>>>look
at neal......
in his book....
here was a kid
who was beaten down...by society...by his brother....
he saw all that
was horrid and cruel in this world, and yet, he was able
to separate
himself from the pain and live.......
he wasn't a
saint.....but he knew something.....early on in life......
he was
aware......>>>
Exactly.
This is kinda
like trying to order one pizza at a big party, no-one wants the
same
toppings. In other words, I don't think
we are going to come to an
accord on this
topic.
Chance is one of
the Great Many things we have no scientific proof on. Sure,
statistically
you're going to get half the tosses heads and half the tosses
tails, but that's
not the same thing.
The William Tell
incident? Does it really matter? The matter of fact is
that he killed
wifey.
>>If we
look at those people who have mental
disabilitites and
hurt someone or kill them can we say that they were
responsible. Or do we blame it on them being insane. Similar to what
our court systems
are trying to figure out currently for some cases.>>
Well, I'm not
sure of the point you're trying to make, Molly, but here's what
I make of
it. Sometimes people do bad, bad
things. ("I want to pet the
rabbits,
George....") Sometimes they mean
to, sometimes it just happens that
way.
>> I do
believe that we are born as a blank slate.>>
Well, mebbe. There's that whole gene thing....
See, to an
extent, we have the power to be whatever we want to be (no-one
flame me), but at
the same time there are certain things I will never be able
to do without
serious operations that probably aren't even possible yet . (I
can't flip my
tongue over)
And yes, we can
change our *minds*, but the question we're all asking is can
we change our
*fate*. I think the best answer to that
is that we can't
change what we
aren't sure of to begin with. (Anyone
here ever read Dick's
"The World
of Jones?")
If there is fate,
maybe it is best we leave it alone. Bc
if it *does* exist,
then there's
probably a reason. but then again, if
fate really does exist,
then we can't
change it anyway, now can we?
Maybe we should
lay aside the art and literature books for a while (no
offense, Molly),
and all just take a nice long nap instead.
Well, that's what
I'm going to do. good nite all.
Rita
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:09:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Jack Kerouac Lit Prize Winner
TENNESSEE WRITER
WINS 7TH ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE
Earl S. Braggs,
writer, poet and teacher from Chattanooga, TN was chosen
as the winner of
the 7th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. Braggs'
entry,
"After Allyson," a chapter from a novel in progress, <Looking for
Jack Kerouac>,
was selected from over 400 entries of poetry, fiction and
non-fiction. The
prize, a cash award of $500 was presented at the 8th
Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival, in Lowell, MA.
The judge of this
year's prize, James T. Jones,Professor of English at
Southwest
Missouri State University, and author of <A Map of Mexico City
Blues>,
praised the level of accomplishment in all manuscript entries, but
cited Bragg's
work as exemplary. "I looked for evidence of Kerouac's
influence. Not
imitation Kerouac, either...but writing that aspires to the
foremost place in
American letters."
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize is sponsored by the Estate of Jack and
Stella Kerouac
(John Sampas, Literary Executor), Middlesex Community
College,
University of Massachusetts Lowell. the Lowell National
Historical Park,
and Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, a non-profit corporation.
This year's
literary prize administrator was Brian Foye, a Professor of
English at
Middlesex Community college, Lowell, MA. Writers seeking
information on
the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize should send a stamped,
self-addressed
envelope to the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize, PO Box 8788,
Lowell, MA
01853-8788.adminsitrator
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:21:44 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Steve Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<951130.231328.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Thu, 30 Nov
1995, Peter McGahey wrote:
>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> From: "Darius A. Yasiejko"
<Derangel@AOL.COM>
>
Subject: Re: About Ginsberg
>
> i wouldn't doubt if ginsberg and burroughs had
a sexual
> relationship
at one point....
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Allen, Bill
and JAck were all homosexual and all had sex with each other.
> This is not
hard to find out as ever biography of them mentions it.
>
> Neal also
slept with them.
>
Whoa! *Homosexual*?
How about bisexual, at least when it
comes to Kerouac
and
Cassady? Bill and Allen, though they both had hetero
relations, count
themselves
exclusively homosexual. Jack and Neal,
though they had
homosexual
relations, counted themselves exclusively hetero.
Best,
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:27:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Postmodernism
In-Reply-To: <30C361C7@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
Interesting notes
and I applaud you on the eloquent name-drops, but
Postmodernism,
though its entire thesis goes against definition and
pigeonholing, has three identifiable traits, these being
the most basic and
oversimplifying
an always fluid style:
1) a response to
the Unimaginable:
emphasis on ambiguity in literature and
art; abstractions abound; non-
objective and reader/viewer specific (see
Stanley Fish's IS THERE A TEXT IN
THIS CLASS? or any Richard Rorty book)
2) concerned with
denaturalization:
an open challenge to overcome the stylized
boundaries and confines to which
Modernism so obediently yielded; striving
for the sanctity of silence (see
Buddhism); a washing away of the
established norms and rigid standards that
we rely on -- for instance, the
linguistics, structuralism, and
hermeneutics that so dominate Modernism
and finally,
3) art attempts
to become indistinguishable from life:
arguably, an intertwining of the former
two, especially in its effects on
culture; this goes well with the recent
arguments about "Chance" -- the
Modernist model held up determinism as
absolute, that if we can put it all
together, we can know everything, predict
results, etc. (see Enlightenment)
but Postmodernism says that it is relative
and subjective, that the great
"IT" is individual-specific;
overall, life is based on influence of culture
but at the same time, culture is defined
by the influence of life, so they
start working interchangeably, each giving
and taking, and eventually, to
the point that these little "does art
mirror society or does society mirror
art" conversations wither away
This is my input
and I remind you all that I am not doing the topic justice by
my sheer
simplification and terseness. For
further information, read the
suggestions above
and see a great book called THE POSTMODERN TURN.
CHRIS BRYAN
On Mon, 04 Dec
1995 16:02:34 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>>Given
this, I'd say Burroughs is pomo, Kerouac, particularly in his attempt
>>to put
all his works together into the Duluoz Legend, a mo.
>
>>Ted P.
>
>By
definition, postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
>
>WWII
(1939-45), by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
>antinovel-esque,
Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
>to surrealism
and poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
>a
"spawn" of the movement.
>
>So not only
Burroughs and Kerouac et al, but John Cage, Jean-Luc Godard,
>and the works
of Jorge Luis Borges, Thomas Pynchon, Roland Barthes,
>and others.
>
>By my source,
mind you.. not that I'm too familiar with the last three
>names.
>
> ..Critter
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:40:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Chances and Choices
>Planning on
chance.. hehe.. what a concept!
Not such an odd
juxtaposition as it might seem on the surface!
Having just
returned from a week out of town, I'm about 2/3 the way through
getting caught up
on this thread about chance in creativity, and have the
need to throw in
my own 2 1/2 cents worth.
1.) Chance is
_not_ the same as "random" coincidence. If you read up on
probability
theory, you'll find that chance is actually mathematically
predictable (if
it weren't, Las Vegas could not exist). There are "laws", if
you will, of
chance. Moreover, there are apparently "laws" that govern chaos;
not only might
the fluttering of a butterflies wing in Australia give rise to
a hurricane in
Jamaica, but it may do so in a predictable fashion!
2.) Physics
aside, I do sense that this topic, applied to human creativity,
opens a Pandora's
box of paradoxes. When I write, I usually have some general
theme, perhaps a
few phrases, as a jumping off point. I may even adopt
further
structures: meter, rhyme scheme, etc. But, what happens next does
have its element
of "chance"; the words may lead me in unpredicted and
unintended
directions. Sometimes, the poem that emerges is entirely different
from the poem I
intended to write. Or, what is written may inspire me to
write another,
unforseen, poem.
But, what gave
rise to the first poem? Was it "chance" that brought together
my thoughts with
the proper mood to write the poem, or that caused me to
select a poem as
the medium for my thoughts, rather than a short story or an
essay (or
painting, song, prayer, etc.)? Or - Did I come to write the poem as
a result of a
series of conscious and cumulative choices? But if so - what
brought me to
each of those choices?
Am I a poet
dreaming of a butterfly in Australia, a butterfly in Australia,
or the dream of
the poet who dreams of the butterfly, and so on in what is
becoming an
infinite regression?
Perhaps chance
and choice are closer in nature than some might think.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:22:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: philzi <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: New book.
There will be a
new Jack Kerouac biography by Ellis Amburn coming out by
around August of
next year. It will be called the "The Beat Of Life". Ellis
Amburn was in
Lowell Mass. most of the summer doing research. He was JKs'
editor in the
60s. I think this will shed some light on later years. Not
much discussion
about the Jan Kerouac- Nicosia-- Sampas fued. The Sampas
family is getting
a bad rap and they are doing some good things relating to
the JK estate.
But I still would like to see a Kerouac museum in Lowell.
What say to
that? Philzi - Lowell Mass.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:42:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit) (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
As for being
responsible for our actions,
that is kind of
difficult. If we look at those people who have mental
disabilitites and
hurt someone or kill them can we say that they were
responsible Or do we blame it on them being insane.
I am not really
sure what you mean by responsibility.
That is why I gave
the example of
the person with a mental disability. We
may never know if
we are responsible
for some actions as crime and abusing others.
However, I do
believe that in some subconscious way we are responsible
for what we
do. That can be through literature, art
and music etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a
mentally ill - or drugged out person were to write a novel?
Are they
responsible or is it chance? Who's to
say whose mind is
insane and whose
isn't?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I still do
believe that our society and family and environment form
us when we are
born. I do believe that we are born as a
blank slate.
Though some
people disagree with me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Although Locke is
attributed with the tabula rasa theory, I cannot see
much in what you
say that the Existentialists would argue with.
Does
your existence
determine who you are or your essence.
this gets us back
to last week's
discussion on the Beats and how they view Existentialism.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 00:22:39 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Postmodern (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
By definition,
postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
WWII (1939-45),
by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
antinovel-esque,
Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
to surrealism and
poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
a
"spawn" of the movement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You hit the nail
on the head (it's late - please excuse bad cliches)
when you say
"sometimes", but how does this automatically make
any post 1945
writing PostModern. The notion of
PostModernity
and PostModern
criticism and art goes much deeper than merely
the time when a
piece was written. Please don't degrade
my
humble profession
any more than it already is.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 02:51:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: unsubscribe
For all of you
who are trying to get OFF this mailing list, send an e-mail
to:
LISTSERV@cunyvm.cuny.edu
In the body, type
UNSUBSCRIBE BEAT-L
Good luck.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:03:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We Killed Chance!!!!
In-Reply-To:
<951204161900_64081013@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Rita T.
Friedman" at Dec 4, 95
04:19:07 pm
>
>>>i have to say, that if this were the case....i would be a bigoted
right-
> wing
conservative nazi, with 5 children by now....on welfare.....addicted
> to numerous
compulsive behavioral problems.....etc....>>>>
>
> Oh c'mon,
now. Is this a plea for pity? Perhaps the idea of being molded
> was meant in
another sense also. The one that you
grow up dissatisfied with
> what
surrounds you, and you vow to make yourself different ("I swear that
> when I have
kids...")
no..just a
comment on environment.....recollecting...that as a
very young
child....i knew there had to be another way.....and wondering,
how did i know
this?
>
>>>>look at neal......
> in his
book....
> here was a
kid who was beaten down...by society...by his brother....
> he saw all
that was horrid and cruel in this world, and yet, he was able
> to separate
himself from the pain and live.......
>
> he wasn't a
saint.....but he knew something.....early on in life......
> he was
aware......>>>
>
> Exactly.
>
>
> This is
kinda like trying to order one pizza at a big party, no-one wants the
> same
toppings. In other words, I don't think
we are going to come to an
> accord on
this topic.
someone idiot
always wants to order pineapple...*smile*
> If there is
fate, maybe it is best we leave it alone.
Bc if it *does* exist,
> then there's
probably a reason. but then again, if
fate really does exist,
> then we
can't change it anyway, now can we?
sometimes there
is a yearning in our heart....a sense that can be
frightening.....if
we ignore it.....and we think that fate is best left
alone....then
aren't we in a way, changing our destiny by not acting
upon this
calling....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:16:39 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Postmodern
In-Reply-To: <30C361C7@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
On Mon, 4 Dec
1995, Ritter, Chris D wrote:
>
> >Given
this, I'd say Burroughs is pomo, Kerouac, particularly in his attempt
> >to put
all his works together into the Duluoz Legend, a mo.
>
> >Ted P.
>
> By definition,
postmodernism is somtimes applied to literature and art after
>
> WWII
(1939-45), by my resources. Thus anything absurd, antihero-esque,
>
antinovel-esque, Beat, concrete, metafiction-esque, pop, op, and similar
> to
surrealism and poststructuralism is considered postmodern or at least
> a
"spawn" of the movement.
>
> So not only
Burroughs and Kerouac et al, but John Cage, Jean-Luc Godard,
> and the
works of Jorge Luis Borges, Thomas Pynchon, Roland Barthes,
> and others.
>
> By my
source, mind you.. not that I'm too familiar with the last three
> names.
>
> ..Critter
>
I think there's
something to the modernist leaning of JK-- and time
period alone does
not a postmodern make. I don't even get
a real sense
of Kerouac's
characters being especially "anti-hero;" they often seem
very traditional
in their lonely wanderings: Poe, Whitman, Byron,
Shelley, Milton,
Homer all have similar "heroes."
And his style draws
right from
modernists, Joyce especially (in a sense...).
I think that,
given the group
JK was surrounded by, this makes his writing all the more
interesting.
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:38:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Burroughs & computers
I came upon an ad
for a new computer game being sold at JR Records:
"The Dark
Eye: Role playing adventure game based on 3 Edgar Allan Poe
stories narrated
by William S. Burroughs. A haunting
nightmare world of
murder &
malevolence. For Windows &
Macintosh. $39.95." A nice xmas
present for
Burroughsians.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:45:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: invader or ugly spirit
When Burroughs
spoke about the William Tell incident, he described it
more as
possession by an "ugly spirit."
The "invader" in this case is
more like a demon
than a muse.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:00:27 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: invader or ugly spirit
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95120509465945@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
On Tue, 5 Dec
1995, Bill Gargan wrote:
>
> When
Burroughs spoke about the William Tell incident, he described it
> more as
possession by an "ugly spirit."
The "invader" in this case is
> more like a
demon than a muse.
>
One person's
demon is another's muse...
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:29:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: invader or ugly spirit
Yes I have
read Burroughs speaking in such a manner
about invaders or
spirits or dark
forces. Much of his writing is
describing these things.
Concerning the
day of the murder he talked about feeling these things in
the hours before
the murder. He definitely believes in
sprites and spirits
and such
things. he has "painted"
numerous pictures by shooting paint cans
with a shotgun
and letting the paint spatter on the canvas.
In discussing
these painting
and the painting style he has said that the method allow the
spirits of the
paint to be made manifest, or something to that effect.
I would think
that after all these years he could come up with a better
excusefor killing
his wife than "The Devil made me do
it".
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:10:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Davis
<CSD95001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Beats/Postmodernism
In response to
the discussion on Postmodernism:
I agree with
Peter's notion that calling any post WWII writing "postmodern"
is ludicrous, as
I cannot imagine anyone applying this term to Danielle Steele
for example. As
far as the attempts to define it go, I am mildly disturbed by
the simplistic
and reductionist definitions that have been given. I can't
remember who gave
us the "3 qualities" definition, but those terms would
probably be
better applied to "Post Structuralism" rather than
"Postmodernism"
In my view, the
Beats would not really be classified as either postmodern or
poststructuralist,
due to their reliance on an objective reality. The
postmodern narrative is reliant on a
completely subjective text--something
I just don't see
in Beat Literature. As an example of writers that I would
call pstmodern,
check out John Barth, Robert Coover, Vladamir Nabokov, and a
host of others.
The list of names that Critter dropped would be a good place o
to start to get a
handle on some of the theoretical models that shape the
poststructuaralist
movement. Be wary however, of any attempt to define these
terms with
absolutes: Derrida's "Structure, Sign, and Play in the Discourse
of the Human
Sciences," (1966) is the essay/lecture that "started" the
American Post
Structuralist movement, and it presents the "Deconstructionist" m
model with which
we are all familliar. This model, however, is widely
different than
the adaptations made to it by Roland Barthes, and it was
further changed
by the Yale "Gang of Four," who can be credited with
popularizing
post-structuralism in America. Simmilarly, the ideas developed by
Foucault, a
follower of Nietzschian philosophy, further confuses the
possibility of a
strict definition of these terms. Add to these writers the
works of
Kristeva, De Man, Said, and the entire New Historical movement, and
we can begin to
understand exactly why defining these terms in absolutes
becomes an
impossible task.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:37:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: chance (to kill it a bit)
In-Reply-To: <628FC43001C93A7C@-SMF->
I think I would
call that strength.
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:49:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We Killed Chance!!!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <688FC43001C93A7C@-SMF->
Rita
What do you
believe goes through ones mind when we are in our mothers
womb? Remember, that there is a certain month
during the pregnancy that
one does begin
hearing. But what is it that the fetus
hears?? Muffled
sounds. So, that is another reason why I believe that
we are born as a
blank slate.
I also believe
that we have no scientific proof of chance.
BUT, my
theory is that in
SOME situations there is chance and in others there is
not.
As for the
example of the mentally disturbed people who hurt and kill
people. Do we know that it was chance that just
happened to make them a
lunatic at that
very point in time or is it that they were aware of what
was happening to
themselves. That is what many of our court systems are
trying to
prove. For instance, was it just chance
that Jeffrey Dahmer
had some chemical
reaction in his brain which he could not control that
forced him to
kill several people OR was it that he was fully aware of
what was going
on. OR maybe it was neither of these but
something that
was brought out
of his subconscious when he saw a certain person taht
made him do
it. We will never know.
Therefore CHANCE
is just MY THEORY
MOLLY
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:56:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chances and Choices
In-Reply-To: <6C8FC43001C93A7C@-SMF->
LUTHER
Well what I am
saying is that this is my own personal theory of Chance.
I am not looking
at statistics.
We can probably
predict weather from patterns that we have seen over the
past how many
million years the Earth has been here. Through
temperature
change different atmospheric conditions and so forth
we can predict the
weather. I really don't believe that that is chance
BUT it may be. That
last statement is
what I have learned.
As for writing
poetry and other sorts of literary and artistic mediums I
believe that we
can't predict what isgoing to come out on the paper BUT I
do believe that
somewhere in our subconscious ideas, experiences and
memories are
coming forth. We just aren't aware that
it is happening.
BUT that is MY
theory. You don't have to believe this
and I am not
trying to
persuade anyone to believe it.
MOLLY
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:42:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: You can't win
Greetings,
This is my first
posting to this list. My name is William
Miller. I am
interested in the
writings of Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs, as well as
other beats, but
my primary interest is with William Seward Burroughs II.
I read _Literary
Outlaw_ about a year ago, and I still am reading books that
I was
"introduced" to for the first time there, both books by Burroughs
himself and books
written by others. I would like to know
if any of you know
this: where, if anywhere, paper or computer
version, could I find a copy of
Jack Black's _You
Can't Win_, the book which formed such an impression on WSB
in his youth?
If you have an
answer on the whereabouts of _You Can't Win_, please let me
know via e-mail
or a general posting.
I would relish a
discussion of the actual fiction, the TEXTS, of these
writers. Does that indeed happen here, at BEAT-L ?
With respect,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:01:31 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: You can't win
>Greetings,
>
>This is my
first posting to this list. My name is
William Miller. I am
>interested in
the writings of Ginsberg, Kerouac, and Burroughs, as well as
>other beats,
but my primary interest is with William Seward Burroughs II.
>
>I read
_Literary Outlaw_ about a year ago, and I still am reading books that
>I was
"introduced" to for the first time there, both books by Burroughs
>himself and
books written by others. I would like to
know if any of you know
>this: where, if anywhere, paper or computer
version, could I find a copy of
>Jack Black's
_You Can't Win_, the book which formed such an impression on WSB
>in his youth?
>
>If you have
an answer on the whereabouts of _You Can't Win_, please let me
>know via
e-mail or a general posting.
>
>I would
relish a discussion of the actual fiction, the TEXTS, of these
>writers. Does that indeed happen here, at BEAT-L ?
>
>With respect,
>
>
>William
Miller
You Can't Win was
released a few years ago with an introduction by
Burroughs. Sorry I don't remember the publisher. So it should be
available
somewhere. And since it is so old a public domain e-text should
not violate any
copyright laws. Whether or not it is
available as an
e-text I don't
know.
And for some
reason discussion of the actual fiction of beat writers is
scarce around here. I don't know why.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:01:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: You can't win
Sorry, but we
tend to discuss more important things, like the names of the Beat
Writers pets.
hehe
Love Always,
Eric Simpkins
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:13:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: You can't win (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
I would relish a
discussion of the actual fiction, the TEXTS, of these
writers. Does that indeed happen here, at BEAT-L ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rarely are the
actual texts mentioned - we prefer to spend our time here
discussing more
important things like who's Mom looks more like
Kerouac's cat.
The actual things
they wrote don't really matter so much around here.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:16:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We
Killed Chance!!!!!!!! (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
I also believe
that we have no scientific proof of chance.
BUT, my
theory is that in
SOME situations there is chance and in others there is
not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So as to not
flame anyone, I'll blame this on my casual reading of the
postings this
past week - I can't seem to recall what this discussion
of chance has to
do with the Beat Generation. How did we
get onto
this thread?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:24:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: New book.
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:22:08 -0500
from <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Can you tell us
who's publishing the Amburn biography?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:30:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: digest
Several people
have asked recently if it is possible to get Beat-l in
digest form. It is.
To receive Beat-l as a digest, send the message
set beat-l digest
to Listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu. Do NOT send
the message
to the list!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:35:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Satori in Paris
I admit I'm a
little embarassed to be posing this question, but WHAT was
Jack's
"satori" in this book? What was the great revelation?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:52:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac on chance/destiny
Depending on
one's bent, I either chanced upon or else subconciously
remembered reading
years ago and therefore have been groping all week in the
most roundabout
way toward this passage in Kerouac's _book of dreams_ (p 8):
...alone in
eternity - to which I now go, on white horse, not knowing what's
going to happen,
predestined or not, if predestined why bother, if not why
try, not if try
why, but try if why not, or not why -- At the present time I
have nothing to
say and refuse to go on without further knowledge.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:56:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
Burroughs and Computers
>I came upon
an ad for a new computer game being sold at JR >Records: "The
Dark Eye: Role
playing adventure game based on >3 Edgar Allan Poe stories
narrated by
William S. Burroughs. A >haunting
nightmare world of murder &
malevolence. For >Windows & Macintosh.
$39.95." A nice xmas present for
>Burroughsians.
I guess that
answers the question someone raised recently about whether or
not Burroughs is
into computers.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 19:25:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: philzi <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: New Book-- publisher
St. Martins Press is the publisher of
"The Beat OF Life" that should be out
for the Fall of 96.
In Oct this year Ellis Amburn came out with the book
"Buddy
Holly". He has done "The Pearl" the biography of Janis Joplin,
"The
Dark Star"
the biography of Roy Orbison and others. At the Kerouac fest in
Oct. I attended a
reading of Sebastion Sampasas poetry and letters at the
University of
Lowell. Does anyone know if this was taped or if any of his
work has been
published? As his closest friend he was a great influence on
Jack and was a
GREAT writer himself. Please let us know if anyone finds out
anything.
Philzi Lowell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:32:04 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Satori in Paris
At 06:35 PM
12/5/95 -0500, you wrote:
>I admit I'm a
little embarassed to be posing this question, but WHAT was
>Jack's
"satori" in this book? What was the great revelation?
>
>
Jack forgot. But he remembered having one.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 19:40:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: philzi <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: New Book re publisher
St. Martins Press is the publisher of
"The Beat of Life" that should be
out for the
fall of 96. In October this year Ellis Amburn came out
with the book "Buddy
Holly".
He has done
"The Pearl" the biography of Janis Joplin, "The Dark Star"
the
biography of
Roy Orbison and
others. At the Kerouac fest in October I
attended a reading of
Sebastian Sampas'
poetry and letters at the University of Lowell. Does
anyone know if
this was taped or
if any of his work has been published?
As his closest
friend he was a
great influence on Jack and was a GREAT writer himself.
Please let us
know if anyone
finds out anything.
Philzi-Lowell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:20:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bernard Moore
<UnderToad2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Christ!...did Kerouacsuffer from this
complex?
On 12/5/95 7:54PM
EST, JHulvey@AOL.COM wrote:
>Depending on
one's bent, I either chanced upon or else subconciously
remembered
reading years ago and therefore have been groping all week in the
most roundabout
way toward this passage in Kerouac's _book of dreams_ (p 8):
...alone in
eternity - to which I now go, on white horse, not knowing what's
going to happen,
predestined or not, if predestined why bother, if not why
try, not if try
why, but try if why not, or not why -- At the present time I
have nothing to
say and refuse to go on without further knowledge.
BEN
(Undertoad2) replies and asks:
I have only been
into Kerouac/Beat writers less than 2 years and have not yet
read "Book of Dreams".
But when I read
the above quote, I started thinking
about the "white horse"
reference.......
Since JK was a
devout Catholic (at least during his "Lowell" years) I imagine
JK would have
been familiar with the the "white horse" references in the Book
of Revelation.
I won't quote it all chapter and verse, but one
reference is in Rev. 6:2
where the rider
"went out to conquer." The second reference is in Rev.
19:11-16, where
the rider is called faithful and true (and many scholars
think refers to
Christ).
Does this suggest
to others (as it seems possibly to me) that JK may have, at
least
subconciously, have thought himself some
sort of "Messianic figure"?
Or, since I have
a limited knowledge of JK and his writings, are there other
references that
may better explain his dream of being on a "white horse"? I
realize the
reference (cited) in Book of Dreams doesn't seem to support
either the idea
of someone "conquering", or being a "messianic figure" ,
butI
find the white horse reference a little hard
to ignore and not to query.....
Comments please!
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:28:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bernard Moore
<UnderToad2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: You can't win
Greeting William,
I cannot answer
your query (sorry) but since I, also, am
a fairly recent to
the whole Beat
thing (Kerouac was my "door"), wanted to say hi.
I'm just curious, but are you at all related
to the "William Miller" who
started the
"Millerite/ Millenial Movement" back in the mid-1850s?...Its a
stretch, but
worth the question.
Please note my
(recent) posting on the reference to
JK's "Book of Dreams"
Hope you win! (G)
Best,
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:38:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bernard Moore
<UnderToad2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
digest?
WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
(Bill Gargan) writes:
>Several
people have asked recently if it is possible to get Beat-l in
digest form. It is.
To receive Beat-l as a digest, send the message
set beat-l digest
to Listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu. Do NOT send
the message
to the list!
Ben (Undertoad2)
asks:
What exactly does
"digest" mean? What does it include/exclude?
I think it would
be helpful to avoid all the postings (including this one!)
that do not
directly relate to the topic of the beats?
Thanks!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:27:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Davis
<CSD95001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: You can't win (fwd) (fwd)
In response to
these questions---Yes! I couldn't agree more. I would much
prefer to see
this list devoted to an axtual textual discussion of
literature, and
less to the fan club/trade 'zine/pet discussions that it
has become!
Now...to avoid being flamed for proposing theory without
praxis: I am
proposing a topic of discussion that actually relates to the
literature...
One aspects of
the Beats that has always interested me was the concept of
revolution, both
in terms of subject matter, and textual forms. Specifically,
I am interested
in how the beat poets helped to create revolutionary
poetry, but did
so without a specific cultural reference. Consider, for
example, Gary
Snyder's poetry which is clearly political, but in such a
markedly
different way than Robert Lowel's. Both of them, of course, were
affected by the
political upheavals during their lifetime, but their reactions
in terms of their
art are so different. ("Earth House Hold vs. "For the Union
Dead" for
example...) I would be interested in hearing some responses to this,
particularly by
someone who knows a bit more about the context of the "poetry
wars"
ongoing during this period...Any takers?
Chris Davis
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
I would relish a
discussion of the actual fiction, the TEXTS, of these
writers. Does that indeed happen here, at BEAT-L ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rarely are the
actual texts mentioned - we prefer to spend our time here
discussing more
important things like who's Mom looks more like
Kerouac's cat.
The actual things
they wrote don't really matter so much around here.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:11:52 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: You can't win (fwd) (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<951205.204639.EST.CSD95001@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Tue, 5 Dec
1995, Chris Davis wrote:
> One aspects
of the Beats that has always interested me was the concept of
> revolution,
both in terms of subject matter, and textual forms. Specifically,
> I am
interested in how the beat poets helped to create revolutionary
> poetry, but
did so without a specific cultural reference.
What the... I'll
chime in. "I saw the best minds of
my generation,
destroyed by
madness, starving, hysterical, naked..."
I think the
beats-- and maybe
the "beat poets" most specifically, were extremely
referential to
their culture-- is there anything not cultural in their work?
I recognize you
might mean something specific by, well, the word
"specific"--
are you thinking about how they incorporate disperate
cutlures into
their work-- western, eastern thinking, for instance? But
still, weren't
all the combinations meant as response to the nasty days
of the
1950s? (I'm so looking forward to
returning to those days if the
GOP wins the
pres. election, esp. Gramm.)
Perhaps I'm not
sticking to the texts enough... but if there isn't
cultural reference,
what are they revolting against? Even
the literary
forms are
cultural icons-- Eliot, Pound, etc. And,
I think for Ginsberg
at least, his
revolutionary forms are pretty easily found-- perhaps they
remain
"revolutionary," but not original-- chanting, to an extent, but,
as he comes close
to admitting by action, Blake definitely.
Now there is
a poet who is
revolutionary both with and without cultural reference...
able to include
all at the same time.
The beats at
their best-- I think in WSB's works-- are both culturally
referential and
something else, something new, as well...
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:22:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: You can't win
Comments: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:42:32 -0500
from <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
The recent
edition of You Can't Win: The
Autobiography of Jack Black,
with foreword by
Wm. S. Burroughs, was published in 1988 by Amok
Press (P.O. Box
51, Cooper Station, New York NY 10276).
Whether it's
still in print, I
don't know.
Blaine Allan
ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:37:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Postmodern Poetry
People interested
in postmodern poetry should not miss
"Postmodern
American Poetry," a Norton Anthology edited by Paul
Hoover. All the Beats are included as are Black Mountain,
NY
School and many
others including the Language School.
Charles
Olson is
considered the father of postmodern poetry -- or at
least the first
person to use the term, but I find his work to be
more
neo-classical than postmodern. For my
money, Frank O'Hara
was more the
postmodernist than Olson, but strangely enough his
more postmodern
poems (such as Second Avenue) are not included in
the
anthology. I wrote an article last year
for a friend's zine
entitled,
"Who Drove the Post Through Modern Poetry," that I still
think I have it
on disk if anyone is interested I could send it via
E-Mail. I'm of mixed opinion as to the Beats'
postmodernity --
see them more as
neo-romantic. but it's all labels anyway and
what are labels
in the Postmodern World. Speaking of the
above schools, the
Smithsonian is
sponsoring an eight week course entitled "Rebel Poets of the
1950s." We are reading "On The Road" for
the first class -- it's
been years since
I read it and it should be great fun. If
there
are any other
Washingtonians out there other than Howard and
myself hope you
can make it.
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:30:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: White horses
>Does this
suggest to others (as it seems possibly to me) that >JK may have,
at least
subconciously, have thought himself
>some sort of "Messianic
figure"? Or,
since I have a limited >knowledge of JK and his writings, are
there other
>references
that may better explain his dream of being on a >"white horse"?
For one, there is
a zen koan about meditation, in which the student is
advised to try
not to think about a white horse.
Western mythology
is replete with "white horse" images; it's possible that
the white horse
in "Revelations" is borrowed from earlier traditions. Kerouac
could have
"borrowed" the image from any of anumber of sources, or it could
have been
used/dreamed purely by "chance" - that is, he may have written it
down without
being conscious of any particular source.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:34:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Christ!...did Kerouacsuffer from this
complex?
Horses in dreams
are symbols of death. White horses
especially according to
some.
Rita
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:17:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Christ!...did Kerouacsuffer from this
complex?
I know that I am
getting off the subject of the Beats a little to much for
some people to be
comfortable bu, Rita, you are being a little to Freudian.
Jung (and most
psychologists after him from what I understand) believed that
there are no
universal symbols in dreams, symbols in dreams are unique to the
individual.
Love Always,
Eric Simpkins
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:50:06 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan <Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: kerouac, christlike
In-Reply-To:
<951205233405_126274440@emout05.mail.aol.com>
apocalypse
now? Revelation is damn interesting
reading...
On Tue, 05 Dec
1995 23:34:06 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>Horses in
dreams are symbols of death. White
horses especially according to
>some.
>
>Rita
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 01:02:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Define GenX Writing???
>What do you
think? Any connection between any of
them and the Beats other
>than the
break away from society connection?
I had a nice
little print up of the GenX writers from City Lights.. there's
a slew
of them that fit
the bill, maybe..
Lemmie ask a
serious question:
Can the GenX
Literary Movement or at least their attributes be defined???
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 01:14:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Christ!...did Kerouac always stick to
the topic?
>>I know that
I am getting off the subject of the Beats a little to much for
some people to be
comfortable bu, Rita, you are being a little to Freudian.
Jung (and most
psychologists after him from what I understand) believed that
there are no
universal symbols in dreams, symbols in dreams are unique to the
individual.>>
Oh, Eric! You silly goose. It's kinda like this, now, I'm probably never
going to
seriously think about, guh, the Loch Ness monster, but I still know
the legend. So why not take this legend that I know and
throw it in to some
of my writing
knowing that someone will understand that I'm making a
statement, on
say, that guy in the 1950's who mysteriously blew up in the
Lochness Lake
while trying to beat the world motorboat speed record? See, I
know that Someone
out there will get the reference, and everyone else will
most likely glaze
over it like a donut.
mmmmmm....donut. And, I for one, don't mind getting off the
topic a wee bit
if it came from
the Beats. It all flows together, and
maybe somewhere along
the lines we will
stumble over something Really Significant (in regard to the
Beats)in the
midst of talking about something else and being yelled at by
some people to
stick to the exact writings of the authors.
I think we need
to acknowledge
the thoughts and queries that they themselves might have had
in the process of
writing or revising or whatevering, and give those thoughts
consideration. I agree, if I just sent out a post talking
about donuts or
art and mentioned
nothing about them, then that's silly, but I don't think
there is anything
wrong with tangents- Oh did you hear the one about how
three strings
went into a bar...?
I love you too,
Eric, and all of you,
Rita
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 01:29:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nels A Nelson <Nels68Me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Regarding
Baraka's attitude toward his old Beat self.
It is not odd for an
artist (or
non-artist) wanting to move drastically to renounce all that
he/she was and
what preceded him/her. Jettison all
excess cargo, so to say.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 01:31:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Being Mindful
Hello everyone,
On this subject
as to what should be the content of messages posted here...I
agree that sometimes we can really digress (the most
popular example being
the discussion
around the name of Jack's cat), but I'm apprehensive about
instituting some
rule that we must stick stricly to a discussion of the texts
of Beat writers.
Literature, like all art, touches us all individually,
deeply on more
than a cerebral level. It speaks to us on an emotional &
spiritual level
as well. In talking about the works of the Beat writers, it
would be almost
impossible to not talk about how these writings have shaped
and influenced
our own ideals, and that discussion can inevitabley take a
philosophical
bent.If I wanted a purely academic discussion, I would turn to
scholarly
literary journals.
I've noticed that
as it is, when we do discuss "serious" topics it is
generally from
the objective, removed position of a scholar, quoting and
referencing other
people, and not speaking whatever our real truth is. Okay,
some of these
discussions seem to take on a life of their own and get kind of
dull, but if we
ask each other to dictate what we're allowed to express, if
we censor our own
ability to speak our truth, what kind of homage are we
paying to our
Beat writers?
Truly,
Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:43:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul Rice <PAULR@COASTAL.EDU>
Organization:
Coastal Carolina University
Subject: Re: White horses
cf. the recurrent
white horse image in _Natural Born Killers.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:25:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: You can't win
You Can't Win, by
Jack Black, was reprinted in 1988 by Amok Press with a
great foreward by
W. S. Burroughs. It is a rematkable and
vivid book, a must
for major
Burroughs fans or anyone into the hurly-burley of the hobo-con
man-road culture
of the 19teens and twenties.
Good luck finding
it. I snapped it up in a used bookstore
in Boston. It is
out-of-print. It was originally published in 1928 by
McMillian. May the
johnson family be
with you...
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:05:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Eckert, Molly K"
<MKECKERT@CCC-S.CEDARCREST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We Killed Chance!!!!!!!! (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <C5CDC43001C93A7C@-SMF->
We got onto
chance because Jack used chance in his writings.
Molly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:44:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Satori in Paris (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>I admit I'm a
little embarassed to be posing this question, but WHAT was
>Jack's
"satori" in this book? What was the great revelation?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was
that he didn't like living so far away from his mother so
he went back to
the States very quickly.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:42:07 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Steve Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Satori in Paris
In-Reply-To: <951205182912_125947814@mail06.mail.aol.com>
On Tue, 5 Dec
1995, Liz Prato wrote:
> I admit I'm
a little embarassed to be posing this question, but WHAT was
> Jack's
"satori" in this book? What was the great revelation?
>
That there wasn't
one.
Best,
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 14:59:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: X marks the spot
Dear Critter,
well, can you
first define GenerationX?
I think that
there are definatley some writers that fall into the GEn X
catergory, no
matter how you look at it, (unless, of course you don't look at
it at all). The first mostest obvious being Coupland,
Douglas. Author of
"generation
x" "microserfs"
"shampoo planet" and "life after god"
The next, someone
else said before, was Quentin Tarrantino.
you gotta admit,
even if his works
aren't about Generation X, they certainly do grab that
market's
ratings. (really, if you fall into this
mysterious category, HOW
MANY TIMES DID
YOU SEE pulp fiction? true romance? killing zoe <ok, maybe
not that one a
lot>? were you really intrigued by
destiny turns on the
radio? did you see resivoior dogs?)
Mebbe after that
I'd say Eric bogosian, for a mix of the previous two people,
all his age,
age-grabbing, and age of characters. He
also makes a statement
on american life
today, and I think that tends to touch younger audiences *IN
GENERAL* more
than the over 65 crowd. (if you find
yerself offended by this
bc you are over
65, then you should actually be honored that you're still so
hip...) Of course, playwrites hardly ever get enough
recognition these
days.... (and
yes, i did read his version of Notes From The Underground.
Good stuff.)
Then howabaout
the wonderful Ani DiFranco? I know,
she's a musician, but her
lyrics have
p-o-w-e-r. On that track, judging by
lyrics and not musical
abilities, Tori
Amos. (Although I do love her music
too....)
My friend nigel,
but he's not famous so he doesn't count, I guess.
I'm blanking on a
lot of really important people, I know, its late, forgive
me. but i wouldn't want to have to be responsible
for leaving soemone out
anyway....
Ok, any
connection to the Beats?
A sense of
dissatisfaction with the mainstream culture, yes, but how about
that these
poeple, or at least some of them, are willing to take
controversial issues
and write about them, push them, sometimes get graphic
with you.
Unlike many other
authors, these guys say it loud. And
they will be morbid,
they will be
depressing, they will not be objective.
They are opinionated.
They don't
(usually) slip into the whole "my writing is all metaphorical"
mode and the
Beats didn't that much either. It is
about honesty through
writing, and an
honesty of soul.
But...guh...I'm
exhausted and just got denied billing credit from Amerika
Online.
>>>What
do you think? Any connection between any
of them and the Beats other
>than the
break away from society connection?
I had a nice
little print up of the GenX writers from City Lights.. there's
a slew
of them that fit
the bill, maybe..
Lemmie ask a
serious question:
Can the GenX
Literary Movement or at least their attributes be defined???>>>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 13:51:32 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: genX in Chicago, under the El
In-Reply-To: <30C5317D@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
yes, but only in
general and only according to the broad scope of their very
heterogeneous
vision...a synthesis cannot be composed but rather a broad
definition of the
particular characteristics
On Wed, 06 Dec
1995 01:02:26 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>>What do
you think? Any connection between any of
them and the Beats other
>>than the
break away from society connection?
>
>I had a nice
little print up of the GenX writers from City Lights.. there's
>a slew
>of them that
fit the bill, maybe..
>
>Lemmie ask a
serious question:
>
>Can the GenX
Literary Movement or at least their attributes be defined???
>
> ..Critter
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:17:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality" <SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
I would just like
to say that I find it amusing that one of the few definitions
or boundries that
all "gen. x'ers" fall into is the age limit, not the social
or ecvonomic
class, not the political beliefs, just during what period in time
where they born.
However, one of the characteristics attributed to them was a
dissatisfaction
with mainstream society. Obviously, this can not be true of all
"gen.
x'ers" or else it would be a giant paradox. If everyone were to be
with mainstream
society, and in their generation, mainstream society was that
everyone was
dissatisfied with mainstream society, then that would force
everyone into the
real mainstream society of normalcy and picket-fences and
Dad as a provider
and Mom as a house wife. But, they were dissatisfied with
mainstream
society (granted, this is not mainstream society, and from what I
hear, it never
was, TV just made it that way, but I wasn't around so I really
don't know) but
it is the ideals of mainstream society. So, The whole
generation is
dissatisfied with itself, so they all deny membership and in
doing so show
that they are members. Wow, maybe the media was right, and I
just had never
thought about it before.
Love Always,
eric Simpkins
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:19:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Christ!...did Kerouacsuff...
>Jung (and
most psychologists after him from what I understand) >believed
that there are no
universal symbols in dreams,
>symbols in
dreams are unique to the
>individual.
You and Rita are
both right and wrong. Although Jungians do believe as you
say, they also
use what they call "amplification" which is to look at the
uses of the
particular symbol - in myth mostly, but also in fairy tales and
yes, literature.
The final word , however, rests with the dreamer.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:19:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Dreams Question (horse)
Does anyone know
if there's been a book (besides _Book of Dreams_) or article
discussing Jack's
dreams - either the dreams themselves, or how they played
into his writing?
Julie
PS - Brief
thoughts on the white horse: quest (as in knight) purity strength
sacrifice (as
white was often the color of sacrificed animals - also
sacrifice in the
sense of making sacred). St. George. horse as vehicle or
body
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:25:26 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@AUC"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Re: Dreams Question
On Wed, 6 Dec
1995 15:19:27 -0500,
Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM> wrote:
>Does anyone
know if there's been a book (besides _Book of Dreams_) or article
>discussing
Jack's dreams - either the dreams themselves, or how they played
>into his
writing?
>
"Book of
Dreams" is briefly discussed in Dennis McNally's "Desolate
Angel",
pp. 292-3
Regards,
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:21:29 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: You can't win
I found this
edition in a used book store. I think that's the best bet. It's
worth reading.
Compare the influence of *You Can't Win* on Burroughs to the
influence of Jack
London's *The Road* on Kerouac. It's obvious that each man
picked up on what
suited him best.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:37:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Postmodern Poetry
>I wrote an
article last year for a friend's zine
>entitled,
"Who Drove the Post Through Modern Poetry," that I still
>think I have
it on disk if anyone is interested I could send it via
>E-Mail.
>
>Perry
Lindstrom
I would love to
acquire a copy of this! I run a coffeehouse on the
net and the
little coffeetable magazine I put out would love to have
an article such
as this for the next issue! (everything electronic mind
you.)
[http://metro.turnpike.net/C/Critter/index.html]
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:35:20 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization: Redwood
Free-Net
Subject: Re: Define GenX Writing???
At the Boulder
beat gathering in 1982 and at the NYU beatfest in '94 Allen
Ginsberg talked
about a Found Generation. He told me that it was a term
Kerouac had used
in talking about a forthcoming generation. Anyone have any
ideas about what
a Found Generation might be like?
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:31:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:17:32 -0700
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
I would just like
to say that I find it amusing that one of the few definitions
or boundries that
all "gen. x'ers" fall into is the age limit, not the social
or ecvonomic
class, not the political beliefs, just during what period in time
where they born.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the
common conception of Gen X and your complaints
about it are
valid. That's why I sent out Doug
Coupland's
definition of
Generation X a few weeks back. It took
into
consideration
attitude and beliefs - I guess that is the
way to view what
separates the Beats from all the other
Bohemians
throughout time.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:39:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Define GenX Writing??? (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 01:02:26 -0500
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Define GenX Writing???
I had a nice
little print up of the GenX writers from City Lights.. there's
a slew
of them that fit
the bill, maybe..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested
in seeing that list (if your use of the past tense does
not mean you no
lnger have it).
I'd have sent
this privately (ha ha) but I don't know what the hell
kind of address
you have Critter.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:57:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Is anything really: Re: Postmodern (fwd)
>You hit the
nail on the head (it's late - please excuse bad cliches)
>when you say
"sometimes", but how does this automatically make
>any post 1945
writing PostModern. The notion of
PostModernity
>and
PostModern criticism and art goes much deeper than merely
>the time when
a piece was written. Please don't
degrade my
>humble
profession any more than it already is.
Well, let me come
clean first off: I've only been reading into
this
postmodernity for a little under a year, and I must say it's
not a concept you
can easily pick up on your own w/o discussing
it w/ those that
have dabbling in it for a longer time. I'm still cutting
through Madan
Sarup's essays on post-structuralism and
postmodernism,
which is not what I'd call a light read.
>From what
concepts I've grasped thus far, postmodernism was
supposed to be a
sort of supra anti-literature movement. Personally,
what little I
know of the Beats, I don't think they meet the mark. I've
always enjoyed
what McClure attempted with the language, and
thought that was
CLOSE to pomo, with Corso in a close second.
As far as
literature in the non-poetic sense, Ginsberg did a fairly
good job, and the
film version of his book was also a CLOSE
to what I see as
postmodern.
Unfortunately all
of this is only CLOSE (IMHO) to what I perceive
as being
postmodern. When I look at a master of modern language
I think of
cummings and his ability to twist language into something
more
representative than the peice itself. When I think of the power
behind words, I
think of Eliot, himself being a modernist? As for
modern writers
and their postmodern appeal, I think it's all crap.
I'm not saying
that this man or that is good or bad, I just believe
that
postmodernism is a fancy these days, and not actually a
practice.
As a matter of
fact, I am working now on a mailing list that will
focus on this
topic, trying to find the inspiration or AN inspiration
for the current
or the NEXT movement in literature (writing in
general that is).
If anyone might be interested, feel free to mail
me personally and
I'll keep your name on the list.
..Critter
(Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:12:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Postmodern
>I think
there's something to the modernist leaning of JK-- and time
>period alone
does not a postmodern make. I don't even
get a real sense
>of Kerouac's
characters being especially "anti-hero;" they often seem
>very
traditional in their lonely wanderings: Poe, Whitman, Byron,
>Shelley,
Milton, Homer all have similar "heroes." And his style draws
>right from
modernists, Joyce especially (in a sense...).
I think that,
>given the
group JK was surrounded by, this makes his writing all the more
>interesting.
>
>Yrs. &c.
>Steven Cahn
I agree with
this. Everything that has been attempting to be "postmodern"
seems to be more
"modern" IMO. I think the best definition of postmodern
in language and
literature is the art that attempts to transcend set
boundaries.
Not that this is
any ground-breaking discovery here, but the hero is
one set
convention that writers have been working with for centuries.
As for the more
up-to-date postmodernist, I'd look for someone that
sought to
destruct and destroy more convention than a small handful.
My theories, mind
you..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:47:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D" <rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
>Dear Critter,
>well, can you
first define GenerationX?
Those names that
you dropped would fit into.. err, how exactly can
I say this? I'm
pinned for a proper thought. Tarantino is a magnificent
writer. Anyone
who knows Hollywood'll tell you he's influenced a
slew of scripts
coming in now. Not only his four peices that he wrote
(or should I say
three, excluding Stone's NBK), but others that you
mentioned along
this same genre: Killing Zoe and just about any film
with Eric Stoltz,
along with SFW and the other movie with a .45 in the
title.
So bring Douglas
Coupland into the pot and what does he have in
common with RD or
TR? Nothing at all. Tarantino is interested in
the lower-middle
class succeeding in life by breaking social law.
As for Coupland,
his character's motive isn't about success or
even about
breaking the law. They simply.. what? play with their
dogs and drink
beer? It's more of a character emotional based
novel than a
media-propagation, such as Tarantino's work.
>I think that
there are definatley some writers that fall into the GEn X
>catergory, no
matter how you look at it, (unless, of course you don't look
at
>it at all).
Regardless of
these writer's having anything to do with each other,
what do they have
to do with us? The closest films to modern life
those films like
Hackers and Strange Days, both (or at least Strange
Days) are very
close to Tarantino's work, more media hype than
factuality. If..
lemmie stress that, IF I'd accept any movie as being even
remotely close to
GenX it'd be St. Elmo's Fire or The Breakfast Club,
then again those
are just movies much like both Tarantino's films and
Couplands novels,
they just fit in between the two by depicting GenX
in a fair light
outside of what the media would like to see while dealing
with them on a
more personal level.
ANYHOW, that's
not the point. So Generation X has people that dress
funky and dance
on drugs with wild hair and pierced everything. Who
in the hell
cares???? That's been going on for centuries! Hell, where is
the Queer
literary movement? There isn't one, even though their radical
lifestyles should
warrent such a movement.
It comes down to
this: A literary movement, or a communicative movement
depends not on
the dress, hair, or pierced body parts of a culture but
on the mindframe
of the day. When looking at GenX we'd expect to see
a literary
movement that is even beyond postmodern, beyond the hype
of symbolism and
digging deeper into the roots of our individuality.
Do we have this?
Is there out there on the lawn with Coupland and his
dog or stuffed in
a little glowing suitcase? My answer: No. It might exist
in some examples.
Tori Amos is a beautiful folk singer (Personally I
like Alanis
Morisette much better, but they both are very talented), still
she is not GenX
because she's singing the spirited folk music that has
been around for a
while, before GenX at any rate.
When discussing a
communicative movement, look at Dadaist literature.
If the Beat
movement was actually a movement and not just an extension
of Whitman, then
compare the the two (Dada and Beat) and show me
where the mark
was made deepest in the literary aspect of things, not
necessarily the
popularity of the movements. If we're going to affect
something
in our generation
it needs to be a clear thought from our own sense of
ideals,
not simply
another pretty story with rave music and the Internet. That is
the enviroment we
live in, but not the product of that environment.
>I'm blanking
on a lot of really important people, I know, its late, forgive
>me. but i wouldn't want to have to be responsible
for leaving soemone out
>anyway....
>
>They don't
(usually) slip into the whole "my writing is all metaphorical"
>mode and the
Beats didn't that much either. It is
about honesty through
>writing, and
an honesty of soul.
One last note and
my rant is over: Metaphor and symbolism, IMO, is going
to be the two
deaths in the next literary movement. To get through the
media hype and
into the crux of Information, we need to surpass these
hidden messages
and talk to one another in a dense, information rich
manner than holds
one true statement and gives the audience the
satisfaction of
questioning all the other questions brought up by the
peice.
To take language
out of the "I give you a message" format and into the
more interactive
scene, the story must be left slightly unresolved so that
the audience is
both enthralled to continue with any more work from the
artists and so
that the audience feels they are imporant to the piece. As
a poem has many
different meanings, the primary meaning should be
quite clear, for
to communicate a message the message HAS to be
communicated, but
all facets of the piece needent be answered.
This all relates
to our current mindframe of mass information, but takes
it one step
beyond by allowing the audience to be a part of the message
instead of
feeding them the 6 o'clock news and telling them everything
they've seen is
true.
In summary, I
don't think that GenX has any literary value and looking for
GenX artists is
looking for artists of a certain age, or for artists who
wrote
a book like a
book called GenX, or for artists that sound like Tarantino,
and I don't
necessarily believe that he IS in line with the GenX movement
as a whole, most
people in GenX just think he's cool.
Nuff said.
..Critter
(Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:50:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
>So, The whole
>generation is
dissatisfied with itself, so they all deny membership and in
>doing so show
that they are members. Wow, maybe the media was right, and I
>just had
never thought about it before.
>
> Love Always,
> eric Simpkins
I'm not sure
where this fits into all of that, but the current issue of
Details
outlined how
everything underground and GenX such as R.E.M., zines,
Kurt Cobain,
alternative rock, indie lables, and so on, are now the
mainstream in
above ground media.
Thus anyone who
is now underground is dissatisfied with their original
work. One common
thought around the TRUE fans of any music these
days is that
you're UNCOOL if you like bands that sell a certain amount
of records. For
example, I just recently got into Moby. Anyone who
listens to rave
thinks Moby sucks BECASE he's sold a good amount
of records. REM
still holds well, you're just uncool if you like any
music before..
say, 91.
hmmm.. Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:01:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Define GenX Writing??? (fwd)
>I'd be
interested in seeing that list (if your use of the past tense does
>not mean you
no lnger have it).
I picked it up
from the City Lights homepage.. if you need me to
hunt that down
for you I can, but it is up for everyone to see if you
have Web access.
>I'd have sent
this privately (ha ha) but I don't know what the hell
>kind of
address you have Critter.
Hehe.. the God of
AT&T have done it again!..
I'm starting to
post it now and then with my sig.
...Critter
(Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:03:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
Clerks comes damn
close to what the media portrays us to be. Losers in low
paying jobs.
Love ALways,
eric Simpkins
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:05:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: genX in Chicago, under the El
>yes, but only
in general and only according to the broad scope of their
very
>heterogeneous
vision...a synthesis cannot be composed but rather a broad
>definition of
the particular characteristics
Well.....................................
hmm, thinking here. I dunno if I
can agree.
If you throw a
thousand monkeys in the air, those than land on their
heads will have
something in common, and all the rest will be
different from those
that landed on their heads BUT they're all
still monkeys...
Did that make any
sense whatsoever???
In other words,
individuals compose a mass. When like individuals
compose a mass,
the mass will be somewhat hetero(gen[x])eous.
So if we assume the reverse, that GenX is
heterogeneous, then we
can say that the
individuals have something in common. These
traits will be
broad, yes.. but that's the point of making a generality.
That is to say,
we don't think exactly alike, but we do think along
some of the same
lines. This is what I am interested in overall.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:12:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: White horses
>cf. the
recurrent white horse image in _Natural Born Killers.
I'm a big fan of
Tarantino and all, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut..
Do you think.. I
hate to say this, but do you think he has the
training or just
the brains in general to make such an allusion???
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:34:38 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
Hello guys.
No one moderates
this list and anyone can talk bout anything they want.
But I'd ask that
you stop wasting message space on this as a courtesy to us.
I don't care
about so called Generation X or Tarantino, at least not in the
confines of this
group.
This is the Beat
l list. You have greatly deviated from
the subject matter.
Start or find a
Generation X list is my request.
Like I said, you
don't have to heed this request. But it
is a request for
some courtesy.
Anyone else who
shares my view please chime in.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:35:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: invader or ugly spirit
Hello folks,
In a message
dated 95-12-05 11:32:31 EST, Tim Gallaher writes:
+++++++++++I
would think that after all these years he could come up with a
better
excusefor killing
his wife than "The Devil made me do
it"+++++++++++++++++
I have read that
WSB considers the act an Inexcusable Act.
Perhaps the old
man isn't trying
to excuse it. He apparently has believed
in such
supernatural
"guidings", if you will, since far before the WmTell incident.
Why is there so
much fuss over this one event? Perhaps
there should be
another list
devoted to this topic alone.... the "crimes of Burroughs,
Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Huncke, et cetera......".
Is such a list justified? For
my money, the
Carr-Kammerer incident holds more interest than Joan's death.
As ever,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:37:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chances and Choices
Folks,
I was lucky
enough to pick up a copy of _The Stories of Denton Welch_ at the
best used
bookstore in town this week. Denton Welch apparently was a
motivator for
Burroughs because each encountered a horrible turning point in
his life, and
after that point began to write productively.
The
"chances" that you write of are of at least two breeds: one is
coincidence,
another is guidance by some motivated hand toward fate. There
are more. I'm sure that some of you are familiar with
it, but here's a look
at one peculiar
incident.....
Welch was
detained inexplicably one day, then was paralyzed later when a auto
drove over him
and his bicycle. he (Welch) found the
role of the
inexplicable
(call it coincidence or CHANCE if you wish) in his accident to
be key. Had there been no delay, he presumably would
have escaped injury.
His life was changed forever; he was forced to
leave his painting career and
began to
write. But only for a horrible
accident.
Neither would
Burroughs have continued the pursuit of writing, had the WmTell
incident not
occurred. Was the event horrible, yes,
inexcusable (in my
opinion) yes, but
necessary for us to get to this point (with a dozen or more
Burroughs books
to read)? Sadly,
yes..........................
As ever,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:42:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
>Clerks comes
damn close to what the media portrays us to be. Losers in low
>paying jobs.
>
> Love ALways,
> eric Simpkins
And let's not
forget the newest by the same director, this time in color!
Mallrats!
...<squeak> Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:07:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Beat Texts
Hey, it's an
unmoderated list, folks! If you're not
discussing the TEXTS, you'
ve no one to
blame but yourselves.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:13:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Satori in Paris
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:32:04 -0800
from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
On Tue, 5 Dec
1995 16:32:04 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>At 06:35 PM
12/5/95 -0500, you wrote:
>>I admit
I'm a little embarassed to be posing this question, but WHAT was
>>Jack's
"satori" in this book? What was the great revelation?
>>
>>
>
>Jack
forgot. But he remembered having one.
Maybe it was you
can't go home again!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:17:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: You can't win
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:28:19 -0500
from
<UnderToad2@AOL.COM>
You Can't Win is
available in many libraries. Check Books
In Print to see if t
he reprint
edition is still available. If so, you
can probably order it throug
h you local
bookstore.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:23:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: invader or ugly spirit
Since I am only
half way through my new mail from Beat L and I did not start
from the begining
of this topic, i do not know if anyone has mentioned this,
but WSB believed
that that one incident led him to become a writer. He could
not have done so
without this incident. That is why at the end of Naked Lunch
(the movie) the
man at the border says "prove you are a writer" and Burroughs
turns around and
shoots his wife and the man lets him through.
Love Always,
Eric Simpkins
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:40:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
>>Tori Amos
is a beautiful folk singer (Personally I
like Alanis
Morisette much better, but they both are very talented), still
she is not GenX
because she's singing the spirited folk music that has
been around for a
while, before GenX at any rate.>>
I Listed Tori for
a few reasons, even though her *music* follows traditional
patterns, her
lyrics do not always. I think the level
of what many American
women feel that
she hit in "Me And A Gun" was so intense. Or how about her
wonderings about
God in "god?" I think yes,
very classic issues, but issues
that are being
dealt with in more and more open ways all the time, and she is
one of the poeple
contributing to that. Especially
women';s issues that
women are feeling
more and more free to discuss.
("just because you can make
me come doesn't
make you Jesus")
>>So
Generation X has people that dress
funky and dance
on drugs with wild hair and pierced everything. Who
in the hell
cares???? That's been going on for centuries! Hell, where is
the Queer
literary movement? There isn't one, even though their radical
lifestyles should
warrent such a movement.>>
What?!?!?! Ummm....forgive me, but I wasn't aware that
the common image of
Gen X is the
raver image (could it be you imposing your lifestyle onto the
stereotypical gen
x thing bc of something?) I thought it
was much more that,
I thought it was
more an idea that there are all these different cultural
groups but
thgey're all just "slackers."
What are you talking about a
"Queer
literary movement?" Perhaps I am
naive, but if you are talking about
*gay* writers,
there are TONS of them, check your local Tower Records book
area for the
"Homosexuals in Literature" section, your Barnes And Noble for
the same
thing. Radical lifestyles? What?
Which gender you decide to sleep
with isn't really
a radical descion if you ask me, its a media issue and a
religion issue
(read: political).
The reason I
posed this question in the beginning was kinda an attempt to see
if we could list
our own figures. That is to say, I don't
think many people
who were around
and hanging out with the Beats in the fifties thought that
they were any
more special than anyone else in terms of being pop icons or
role models or
whatever. I think it was more of a
"I want to succeed at
doing this
becuase I want to" and not "I want to succeed at this so I can be
a spokesmodel for
an entire generation.''
And really, did
all of their writing deal with genration issues? No.
Why
should any other
generation's then? I think that mebbe 15
years or so down
the line, it will
be more apparent who the big ones of this generation were.
Rita
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:01:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: You can't win (fwd) (fwd) (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
One aspects of
the Beats that has always interested me was the concept of
revolution, both
in terms of subject matter, and textual forms. Specifically,
I am interested
in how the beat poets helped to create revolutionary
poetry, but did
so without a specific cultural reference. Consider, for
example, Gary
Snyder's poetry which is clearly political, but in such a
markedly
different way than Robert Lowel's. Both of them, of course, were
affected by the
political upheavals during their lifetime, but their reactions
in terms of their
art are so different. ("Earth House Hold vs. "For the Union
Dead" for
example...) I would be interested in hearing some responses to this,
particularly by
someone who knows a bit more about the context of the "poetry
wars"
ongoing during this period...Any takers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I recently read
an interesting piece written by Diana Trilling (wife of
Lionel - teacher
at Columbia of Ginsberg) in which a reading of Corso
and Ginsberg is
described. She and several other
Columbia wives went to
a reading at
Columbia in the early sixties. She had
had problems with
Ginsberg years
before when he kept turning to Lionel every time he was
arrested or
thrown out of Clumbia but went to see him read anyway.
Anyway, after
actually seeing him and some other Beats read, she went home
where Lionel and
several of the "academic" poets were gathered, among them
Auden. They greeted her, in proper manner - stand
when a woman enters
the room etc. -
and after she mentioned that she saw some shred of "good"
in the reading
was told by Auden that he was ashamed of her.
The whole scene,
the men being "polite" to Mrs. Trilling, the fact that
they were
contemptous of anyone who was moved by Ginsberg etc is
indicative of the
juxtaposition between the teo poetic worlds that
existed and that
the Beats were trying to break down. The
Poertry War
mentioned in the
post. The Beats' greatest achievement is
not that
they launched the
hippi's or any other counter-cultural movement, but
that they
succeeded, mainly through the post WWII education (GI Bill)
opportunities ,
in breaking poetry out of the Ivory Tower inhabited by
Auden et al. and
bringing it back to the average Joe in the coffeehouses
and such.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:54:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: BONNIE HOWARD
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: The Found Generation
Dan Barth asked
about "the Found generation..." Is there one? And if so, who
are they?
This probably
sounds like old stuff for most of you, but I'm new at this. If
"postmodernism"
or Beat writing includes the themes/issues of alienation and
disintegration,
then I see many of the post-postmodernist writers as moving
toward finding a
place for themselves and their characters, and re-integrating.
I'm going to have
to limit my examples of this to contemporary Native American
fiction, though,
as that is mostly what I read :-) In novels by Momaday, Silko,
and Erdrich (as
well as many others, my new favorite being Sherman Alexie), we
see characters
who have traditionally felt alienated or displaced seeking
a place for
themselves, and ending up back where they began (geographically, at
least, by going
home to the Rez or traditional homelands). But they have to
leave first to
find themselves.
Many of these
characters follow the Beat ethos (if there is such a thing) of
"going on
the road," because they believe in that (now that I think of it, it
may be more
Emersonian than Beat, but they're connected, right?). They believe
that identity
cannot be found at home. But it always takes coming home again to
really
re-integrate and become whole. They do end up becoming Found, in that
sense. They found
a place to belong, they found themselves.
I cannot even
pretend to know what Ginsberg meant when he said that a future
generation would
be a Found Generation. But in my estimation, these American
Indian writers
are working toward being found, and in many cases have
succeeded. Sorry
for the long babble here--maybe I'd better go *find* some
coffee!
Bonnie Howard
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:53:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul Rice <PAULR@COASTAL.EDU>
Organization:
Coastal Carolina University
Subject: Re: White horses
These things well
up from inside. Archetypes. But I think the horse
was Oliver
Stone's and I think he has the training to make such
connection. Also Q.T. has seen every movie in the world,
so he must
have seen _The
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse_, if the
image was
his.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:40:34 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: You can't win (fwd) (fwd) (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<951206.231436.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Wed, 6 Dec
1995, Peter McGahey wrote:
> mentioned in
the post. The Beats' greatest
achievement is not that
> they
launched the hippi's or any other counter-cultural movement, but
> that they
succeeded, mainly through the post WWII education (GI Bill)
>
opportunities , in breaking poetry out of the Ivory Tower inhabited by
> Auden et al.
and bringing it back to the average Joe in the coffeehouses
> and such.
>
When was poetry
with that average Joe? If you have
sometime in mind, can
you make some
direct link-- stylistically, aesthetically-- with Beat
poetry?
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:31:41 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: White horses
In-Reply-To: <30C63100@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
On Wed, 6 Dec
1995, Ritter, Chris D wrote:
>
> I'm a big
fan of Tarantino and all, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut..
>
> Do you
think.. I hate to say this, but do you think he has the
> training or
just the brains in general to make such an allusion???
>
> ...Critter
>
To drop a name: I
knew QT when he was at Video Archives-- and yes, he's a
bit manic,
perhaps, but definitely the brains and the knowledge-- if not
from books, then
from all the films the guy's seen-- he knows them ALL.
Yrs. &c.
Steven Cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:07:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: fellaheen
Folks,
Next is my next
question. that comes next. The notion and role of the
FELLAHEEN, or
fellahin, arises commonly in Burroughs' fiction. Supposedly it
was partly
planted in his mind by a reading of Oswald Spengler's _Decline of
the West_ -- a
book which he supposedly wanted the others, Jack, Allan, etc.
to read, but he
gave them the book and apparently, from the best I can tell,
they did not.
I have not read
all of Decline of the West, just parts, and I have tried to
zero in on Spengler's
actual usage of the term and narrowest discussion of
it. The book is huge, in fact, the only edition
that I've been able to find
is
"abridged", and I dont' see that Spengler actually spent much time on
'the
fellahin'.
Has anyone else on
the list tried to follow this one up?
I would
appreciate your thoughts on this, the fellahin.
Yours,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:07:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: The Miller name
Folks,
to answer the
question of whether or not I am related to the William Miller
of the
Millerites, 1850's, etc. :::
I think not.
I may be related
to Henry Miller, of Brooklyn, my only vague data being that
HM's middle name
was Valentine, which is the same as my legal father's first
name, and dear
ol' dad is from Brooklyn too.
I'm also related
to Burroughs, on his mother's side. (the
Lees)
thanks to Tim
Gallaher, Blaine Allan, Dan Barth, and all of you who provided
information on
_You Can't Win_ by Jack Black, a text which influenced
Burroughs. I will try to get my hands on the book.
As ever,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:00:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chances and Choices
Comments: To:
William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
> Date
sent: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:37:24 -0500
> Send reply
to: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
> From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
>
Subject: Re: Chances and Choices
William Miller
wrote:
> Neither
would Burroughs have continued the pursuit of writing, had the WmTell
> incident not
occurred. Was the event horrible, yes,
inexcusable (in my
> opinion)
yes, but necessary for us to get to this point (with a dozen or more
> Burroughs
books to read)? Sadly, yes.......................
* *
The incident may
have changed WSB's life, but I don't think anyone
can say he
wouldn't have "continued the pursuit of writing" had this
not occurred.
This thing motivated him to move PHYSICALLY, and
precipitated his
subsequent rootlessness, but he was already writing:
those routines
for which he is hilariously famous began earlier with
Kells Elvins, his
boyhood buddy. I just can't see how this incident,
except
peripherally, perhaps, necessitated his writing.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 01:15:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: up and down and Nietzsche bound
In-Reply-To: <01HYHJ00A882HTVRDE@SONOMA.EDU>
plaid is cool and
nihilism is the new drugstore religion, man...
On Wed, 06 Dec
1995 12:17:32 -0700 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>I would just
like to say that I find it amusing that one of the few definitions
>or boundries
that all "gen. x'ers" fall into is the age limit, not the social
>or ecvonomic
class, not the political beliefs, just during what period in time
>where they
born. However, one of the characteristics attributed to them was a
>dissatisfaction
with mainstream society. Obviously, this can not be true of all
>"gen.
x'ers" or else it would be a giant paradox. If everyone were to be
>with
mainstream society, and in their generation, mainstream society was that
>everyone was
dissatisfied with mainstream society, then that would force
>everyone into
the real mainstream society of normalcy and picket-fences and
>Dad as a
provider and Mom as a house wife. But, they were dissatisfied with
>mainstream
society (granted, this is not mainstream society, and from what I
>hear, it
never was, TV just made it that way, but I wasn't around so I really
>don't know)
but it is the ideals of mainstream society. So, The whole
>generation is
dissatisfied with itself, so they all deny membership and in
>doing so show
that they are members. Wow, maybe the media was right, and I
>just had
never thought about it before.
>
> Love Always,
> eric Simpkins
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:40:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: The Whitney
To avoid flaming
- I have not been to the exhibit YET, all I am
saying is second
hand!
I was told that
in the Whitney exhibit - which is on Beat artists- they
are displaying a
Pollock among other questonable pieces.
How can they
include him in a
Beat exhibit?
I realize that it
is easy to make a cursory connection between Pollock
and some Beats
under the rubric of spontaneous creation of art,
but I don't think
that is acceptable. They apparently
stick many
artists in there
regardless of true affiliation with the Beats.
I would think it
is easy to make the connection of visual spontaneity
between Pollock
and the New York school of poets (i.e. Frank O'Hara)
but can this link
include the aural spontaneity of Beat poets like
Kerouac or
Ginsberg? Just because _Howl_ was
composed in two sittings
or OTR was
written straight through does not mean there is and artistic
link in their
theoretical ideas.
I believe Molly
said she is an art history student - do you have anything
about the San
Francisco school or the Abstract Expressionsits that may
be able to defend
the curator's inclusion of these "non-Beats" in
a Beat exhibit?
Any help?
Peter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:17:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Postmodern? Poem
As Mr. Serling
always said: "Submitted for your approval..."
Nothing God On Television
-------------------------
i found -a little
god-
o n theside
o f(f) theroad,
d u s t e d I
off &
s h u f f l e
d T
tween 2 books
[1.) dharma bums
2.) basketball diaries]
[burn?ing
bakE?ing
i left it in the
SUN
singEing
sear?ing]
all day
atop the tv with
gEraLdoscreaming
aboutanotherfoun
dabort -ion
for
time
until i decided
it was time for raisinettes and tea.
for
time
it looked at me
with (1..2..3..) weary eyes,
thanked me for
the ignorance and disappeared
(leaving behind a
$2.00 voucher for Walmart)
---
and to quote
someone whose name escapes me: "You decide!"
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:16:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Texts/white horses/monkeys/Joan
KEEPING THE LIST
FREE FROM ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BEAT TEXTS
>>>>>>>Hello
guys.
No one moderates
this list and anyone can talk bout anything they want.
But I'd ask that
you stop wasting message space on this as a courtesy to us.
I don't care
about so called Generation X or Tarantino, at least not in the
confines of this
group.
This is the Beat
l list. You have greatly deviated from
the subject matter.
Start or find a
Generation X list is my request.
Like I said, you
don't have to heed this request. But it
is a request for
some courtesy.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hey,
it's an unmoderated list, folks! If
you're not discussing
the TEXTS, you'
ve no one to
blame but
yourselves.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
True, true, true,
both of you. But I gotta agree with Bill
more on this one.
If you can't stand talking about Genreation X,
then start something more
interesting.
Maybe as an idea
for not cluttering mailboxes, we can read *all* the postings
before we send
off letters with more than one subject in them at once,
especially if
they are relkated in any way.
I see nothing
wrong with drawing parrallels between the Beats and The Nows.
WHITE HORSES
>>I'm a big
fan of Tarantino and all, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut..
Do you think.. I
hate to say this, but do you think he has the
training or just
the brains in general to make such an allusion???
...Critter>>>
Well, Critter, I
don't think it matters that much, but yes, I do think he has
the brains to
make that allusion and he did. Remmeber
it was invaded by
Stone anyhow.
CRITTER AGAIN,
THIS TIME JIVING WITH ME
>>>>>Well.....................................
hmm, thinking here. I dunno if
I
can agree.
If you throw a
thousand monkeys in the air, those than land on their
heads will have
something in common, and all the rest will be
different from
those that landed on their heads BUT they're all
still monkeys...
Did that make any
sense whatsoever???
In other words,
individuals compose a mass. When like individuals
compose a mass,
the mass will be somewhat hetero(gen[x])eous.
So if we assume the reverse, that GenX is
heterogeneous, then we
can say that the
individuals have something in common. These
traits will be
broad, yes.. but that's the point of making a generality.
That is to say,
we don't think exactly alike, but we do think along
some of the same
lines>>>>>
Right on. We cannot be lumped into any one category
much further than human.
Heaven knows we can't even try to label people
as races anymore. No-one
wants to be
assigned an age. People don't think it
is fair to judge on
money. Or on eductation. It'll be hard to find two Republicans that
have
the same
views. (or democrats or libertarians or
so on, just an ex.)
The Beats dealt
with a different time period, but theyw ere still human, and
weren't we
talking before about renouncing ties to that generation to move on
and not be tied
down to that label and style of thinking?
JOAN AND THE
MOVIE VERSION
>>>>>>WSB
believed that that one incident led him to become a writer. He
could
not have done so
without this incident. That is why at the end of Naked Lunch
(the movie) the
man at the border says "prove you are a writer" and Burroughs
turns around and
shoots his wife and the man lets him through.>>>> (eric)
Yep, I think the
movie worked bc it was so much more about the psychology of
Naked Lunch than
trying to turn Burroughs' words into pictures.
The way the
movie portrayed
it though, I think made it seem as if he was willing to
sacrifice Joan to
be the writer he became. I don't know if
it was such a
fair
interpretation, but it definately got across the message that that was
Burroughs'
reason.
Looking at the
movie with a better understanding of what transpired there, I
see how it shows
Burroughs as more of a man who had to drive across the
border. He probably had to shoot his wife to became
what he did become. And
that is
depressing in many ways, and Burroughs lived under that guilt (mebbe
he still
does....) for a long time.
Rita
(BTW-is anyone
else so intigued by Burroughs lineage?
not only the adding
machine but the
robert e. lee thing also. i am amazed at
the popular
influence this
family has had)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:42:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Carr-Kammerer, etc.
Yes, William, me
too. This incident is extremely
interesting as it was
reported as an
"honor" slaying in the contemporary press: Carr was in some
way given the
"right" to have killed Kammerer because Kammerer wanted to
sleep with him
(yes, Kam. was persistent, dogged Carr, and they were drunk --
but to use the
word "honor" to describe a murder?)
Also, here's a friend of
two of the
century's most famous queers, Burroughs and Ginsberg, killing
someone based on
the very notions of sexual propriety the "Beats" (and I'm
not convinced,
incidentally, that the Beat generation is any less a media
creation than
Gen-X; I once heard Creeley say that this so-called generation
was really only 4
guys. Their texts resemble one anothers,
and they were all
friends, but
Burroughs, Ginsberg, Kerouac and Cassady had many differences as
well: Ginsberg
and Cassady fit into so-called "hippie" culture; Kerouac and
Burroughs
remained aloof, even critical of it, in K's case). In any case,
does anyone know
of a good source for reading about the Carr-Kammerer
situation? _Jack's Book_ is a text that has some stuff
on it, but I'd like
to find out more.
As to the
sympathy shown Carr: Malcolm Little (later "X") served 6 years for
burglary around
the same time as Carr served 4 for murder.
Race and class
considerations
obviously also play into this, but so too I think does the
homophobic
"if some queer would have done that to me, I'd show him a thing or
two" bashing
mentality.
I also have read
somewhere that the conditions of Carr's parole led Jack to
keep him out of
his books (perhaps to disguise associations Carr wasn't
supposed to have
maintained with a "dangerous" group).
Does anyone know
specifics about
what restrictions were placed on Carr upon his parole?
On other subjects
recently discussed, my proverbial two Lincolns:
- Her name was
Jane Vollmer Adams Burroughs -- the woman accidentally and
stupidly killed
by Bill (though I give credence to Burroughs' expiation over
this act -- it's
not something he's proud of). I don't think
anyone has
mentioned her
name, which is in some way reflective of the attitudes toward
women generally
conveyed by these writers. Can anyone
honestly read OTR
these days and
not be appalled by its sexism? When I've
taught this book, my
students are
quick to leap on this aspect.
- I wrote another
long, "academic" response to the pomo vs. mo debate, then
decided to just
keep it in my files unsent. If an
unmoderated list is to be
successful and
not waste a lot of everybody's time along the way there should
be some
self-censoring. The Gen-X business is of
little interest to me
personally; I
find it similar to attending a tupperware party and being
harangued by an
Amway salesperson -- yes, these are nice products, but what
about the leftovers
I have at home decaying in my fridge? I desire a certain
product here,
else I wouldn't have shown up.
- I object to the
characterization made by one contributor that mentioning
authors and books
is in some way disguising who we really are.
When I, for
instance, brought
up Olson in the thread on chance it wasn't because I was
interested in
flaunting my knowledge or "name-dropping." It's because Olson
writes
perceptively on this issue and was pertinent to the discussion: he
says things
better than I could, and I can't discuss the issue without
reference to
him. I think that some answers to the
question posed lie there,
and I'm not doing
it to get tenure or pats on the back. This isn't lack of
imagination,
evasion, vanity, etc. -- it's because books (which we are
discussing,
right?) exist in conversation with other books.
Books saved me
from reliving the
miserable dead lives of those I grew up with that didn't
discover what I
did. And, need I repeat, they are what
brings us together
here. It seems to me that when we hear "don't
tell us about what you've
read, tell us
about what you feel," there's a great danger of sinking into an
encounter-group
dynamic, which I'd really like to avoid.
That isn't to say I
desire more pure
academicism, just reponsibility to others on the list who
patiently
download all this stuff every day (some paying for it) and do so
because of a
stated interest in the Beats.
"Backchannel" posts (I really
like that word --
posts to individuals, not to the list itself) provide an
opportunity for
people to work out threads which have gone beyond the stated
topic of the
list.
- I rant, but do
appreciate what you all have to offer, else I'd have been
long gone.
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:47:56 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: fellaheen
>Folks,
>
>Next is my
next question. that comes next. The notion and role of the
>FELLAHEEN,
...
I have never
heard that Kerouac never read the book.
I always heard he had
read it and it was
one of the many books Burroughs turned him on to. I
never heard of
Burroughs using the term fellaheen in his writings (though
I'm not so
familiar with his) but Kerouac used the term many times. An
example of
fellaheen as used by kerouac would be the rural mexican citizens
he encountered in
his trips to mexico.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:45:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: fellaheen
Comments: To:
William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
I recollect the
fellaheen tale you mention, that Burroughs was the
Spenglerian in
the group (still is, from what we read) and attempted
to interest the
boys in its historicity etc.
But in my mind,
now, what I think of when I hear the word, has to do
more with JK's
usage of it, possibly epitomized by the Mexican Girl
segment from OTR.
That he was using "fellaheen" symbolically, with
all its
connotations of their being "salt of the earth", or the
backbone of
humanity. I think that, though that may fit (at least to
a point) the
dictionary's definition of fellaheen, I'm not sure how
it contrasts or
conflicts with Spengler's use of it. JK, I think,
appropriated the
term for his own uses.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:55:23 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Texts/white horses/monkeys/Joan
>True, true,
true, both of you. But I gotta agree
with Bill more on this one.
> If you can't
stand talking about Genreation X, then start something more
>interesting.
OK. That test pattern on TV what about it? Pretty cool huh?
How long does iut
take for your butter to melt? How much
faster does it
melt per degree
of temprature increase?
Who do you think
is the best accountant?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:05:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Texts/white horses/monkeys/Joan
Comments: To:
"Rita T. Friedman" <NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
> > JOAN AND THE MOVIE VERSION
>
>>>>>>WSB believed that that one incident led him to become a
writer. He
> could
> not have
done so without this incident. That is why at the end of Naked Lunch
> (the movie)
the man at the border says "prove you are a writer" and Burroughs
> turns around
and shoots his wife and the man lets him through.>>>> (eric)
>
> Yep, I think
the movie worked bc it was so much more about the psychology of
> Naked Lunch
than trying to turn Burroughs' words into pictures. The way the
> movie
portrayed it though, I think made it seem as if he was willing to
> sacrifice
Joan to be the writer he became. I don't
know if it was such a
> fair
interpretation, but it definately got across the message that that was
> Burroughs'
reason.
>
> Looking at
the movie with a better understanding of what transpired there, I
> see how it
shows Burroughs as more of a man who had to drive across the
> border. He probably had to shoot his wife to became
what he did
become.
* *
Does anyone have
anything more than that incident in the movie to
suggest that
manslaughter made a writer out of WSB? I don't recall
that NAKED LUNCH
(the book) made this point.
The Cronenberg
thing was a MOVIE. There are a lot of other
biographical
references that'll make you nod in recognition of
factual material
that you won't find in the book but will see in the
movie. And if
Burroughs didn't pen the screenplay, then we're taking
somebody else's
word (who's probably using artistic license to
dramatize a
point) and relating it as if it were the gospel truth.
Buyer beware.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:32:16 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@AUC"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Burroughs on Cronenberg's 'Naked Lunch'
movie
CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU> wrote:
>Does anyone
have anything more than that incident in the movie to
>suggest that
manslaughter made a writer out of WSB? I don't recall
>that NAKED
LUNCH (the book) made this point.
>
>The
Cronenberg thing was a MOVIE. There are a lot of other
>biographical
references that'll make you nod in recognition of
>factual
material that you won't find in the book but will see in the
>movie. And if
Burroughs didn't pen the screenplay, then we're taking
>somebody
else's word (who's probably using artistic license to
>dramatize a
point) and relating it as if it were the gospel truth.
>
>Buyer beware.
Burroughs writes
about this:
"I was
dismayed naturally, to see the scenes that David (Cronenberg) wrote
in which
"Bill Lee" shoots his wife "Joan"; but on reflection, I
feel that
the scenes in his
script are so different from the tragic and painful
episodes in my
own life from which he drew his inspiration that no
intelligent
person can mistake the movie for a factual account"
-
William S. Burroughs: "Introduction", p. 14, in
"Everything Is
Permitted: The Making of 'Naked
Lunch'", Grafton Books, 1992
Regards,
bs@AUC
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:27:14 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Bryan
<Christopher_Bryan@BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Tastes Great, Less Filling
In-Reply-To:
<951207080703_127323747@mail06.mail.aol.com>
yes, but does
your family own a famous brewery...?
On Thu, 07 Dec
1995 08:07:03 -0500 BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (BEAT-L: Beat
Generation List)
wrote:
>Folks,
>
>to answer the
question of whether or not I am related to the William Miller
>of the
Millerites, 1850's, etc. :::
>
>I think not.
>
>I may be
related to Henry Miller, of Brooklyn, my only vague data being that
>HM's middle
name was Valentine, which is the same as my legal father's first
>name, and
dear ol' dad is from Brooklyn too.
>
>I'm also
related to Burroughs, on his mother's side.
(the Lees)
>
>thanks to Tim
Gallaher, Blaine Allan, Dan Barth, and all of you who provided
>information
on _You Can't Win_ by Jack Black, a text which influenced
>Burroughs. I will try to get my hands on the book.
>
>As ever,
>
>William
Miller
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:42:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Anybody ever been
removed from the list for no reason? Just happened to me
and I am
wondering why and if it has happened to anyone else.
-Kirsten
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:04:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: fellaheen
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:07:06 -0500
from <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Jack and Allen
did read Spengler. I think Jack was more
taken with it
than
Ginsberg. Like everything else, however,
Kerouac took what he
wanted and left
the rest.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:22:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: fellaheen
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:45:19 EST from
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
On Thu, 7 Dec
1995 12:45:19 EST CLAY VAUGHAN said:
>I recollect
the fellaheen tale you mention, that Burroughs was the
>Spenglerian
in the group (still is, from what we read) and attempted
>to interest
the boys in its historicity etc.
>
>But in my
mind, now, what I think of when I hear the word, has to do
>more with
JK's usage of it, possibly epitomized by the Mexican Girl
>segment from
OTR. That he was using "fellaheen" symbolically, with
>all its
connotations of their being "salt of the earth", or the
>backbone of
humanity. I think that, though that may fit (at least to
>a point) the
dictionary's definition of fellaheen, I'm not sure how
>it contrasts
or conflicts with Spengler's use of it. JK, I think,
>appropriated
the term for his own uses.
Yes, he did. Spengler doesn't use the term the way Kerouac
does.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:24:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Why GenX?
Someone (I forgot
your name, sorry) said that he has no interest in this GenX
conversation, as
it has nothing to do with The Beats. That's his feeling, but
many sources have
made the connection between GenX & the Beats, the most
notable one I can
think of being the Jack Kerouac School for Disembodied
poets in which
Allen Ginsberg is very involved. Bill made a good point - this
is our list - and if we're dissatisfied with it, we need
to take
responsibility
instead of blaming it on others.
By some genetic
lottery, I'm technically considered GenX (i'm 28). So is a 18
year old. To give you an idea of how silly this is: I
used to sort of work
with advertising
(gasp!) and one entire demographic group is the 18-49 year
olds. Like 18
year olds and 49 year olds are soooo similar.
Critter asked
whether Tarentino actually had the smarts to understand the
imagery of the
white horse - you know, I used to have this vision of QT too
(like all of the
clever aspects of his movies were accidents?), then I saw
him on Charlie
Rose. This guy is smart! He defiinately knows his stuff. He
doesn't just make
movies, he lives them. He knows more about films than most
directors in
Hollywood, I would guess. I don't know whether he's well read,
but films are an
excellent source of cultural history of the 20th century,
especially when
you look at Wells & Felini & such. But enough of that.
I was the one
that brought Tarentino's name to the list. And I don't know
what he has to do
with GenX. I can only explain his appeal (Above & beyond
being hip) like
this: Never in my life could I stand to watch a movie with
violence in it.
Then I started seeing his movies, and somehow I can watch
them (By the way,
Rita, I've seen Pulp Fiction 3-4 times).. The difference
is, this violence
is portrayed with reality - it's not just some Arnold S.
movie with people
getting blasted everywhere and no blood, no pain. When Tim
Roth's character
gets shot in R.Dogs, he is in pain and he's scared. This was
terrible to watch
in one way, but it was real. I felt like QT wasn't
insulting my
intelligence and was giving me the benefit of the doubt that I
could handle
reality. How many artists do that at all? (ie: Happy endings).
The main reason I
brought up QT was to make the point that there are several
other mediums
(media?) that define GenX's expression. Popular music & film &
computer-related
media are are powerful means of reaching people now,
especially GenX.
I had also thought of listing Billy Corgan on this list, but
was afraid of
spawning a Kurt Cobain conversation, and hasn't that been done
enough already?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:28:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
>I think yes,
very classic issues, but issues
>that are
being dealt with in more and more open ways all the time, and she
is
>one of the
poeple contributing to that. Especially
women';s issues that
>women are
feeling more and more free to discuss.
("just because you can
make
>me come
doesn't make you Jesus")
Yes, I agree that
she is WONDERFUL. I think the point where our
communication
is breaking up is
trying to say what a GenXer is.. if it's restricted to
age, then
yes, she's a
GenXer (I think.. hmmm..) if it's restricted to ideals, than
she's not
fitting the
stereotype very well by making all that cash.
As your next
section shows:
>What?!?!?! Ummm....forgive me, but I wasn't aware that
the common image of
>Gen X is the
raver image
-and-
>What are you
talking about a
>"Queer
literary movement?" Perhaps I am
naive, but if you are talking
about
>*gay*
writers, there are TONS of them, check your local Tower Records book
>area for the
"Homosexuals in Literature" section, your Barnes And Noble for
>the same
thing.
We're on a COMPLETELY different wavelength. If a
gay poet writes about
flowers, does
that make that poet out to be a Out With Pride poet? or just a
poet writing
about flowers? The latter, I'd presume. (And when I say radical
I mean that
heterosexuality is certainly the accepted bible belt philosophy
in America, not
homosexuality.
Back to the issue
of writers in a movement, we must first come to an
understanding
of what GenX
is... Paying close attention to media and film, GenX does still
mean
the slacker
stereotype, but modern youth are seen as "Digitized" or
"OnLine"
ravers that care
more about computers and hacking than getting good grades
in sophomore math
from film's vantage. It all depends on where your focus
lies.
I'll call myself
"in the wrong" for our purposes and say that I was
searching
for a GenX
movement in literature. Looking beyond age, beyond "slack or
rave",
looking more towards the ideals of what I know to be modern youth
and finding how
this would affect such known GenX writers such as Tarantino
and Coupland (if
they are indeed "true" GenX writers). In other words, can
we call a 19 yr
old writing poems about butterflies a "true" GenX writer?
Same goes for the
Beats. I don't think that you could call Mr. X from that
Generation a Beat
writer when he too is writing ONLY about butterflies.
It takes the
spirit of Beat in the writing to call yourself Beat. That is
what
I'm saying is
required of GenX writers..
>Rita
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:44:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: The Found Generation
>This probably
sounds like old stuff for most of you, but I'm new at this.
If
>"postmodernism"
or Beat writing includes the themes/issues of alienation
and
>disintegration,
then I see many of the post-postmodernist writers as moving
>toward
finding a place for themselves and their characters, and
re-integrating.
See, I believe
that the Beats are more Modern than Postmodern. Postmodernism
deals with
communication through accepted symbology, much like news
reports horrors
of blood and riots to us, we listen w/o question and accept
this information.
Postmodernism also attempts to reconstruct accepted forms
and conventions
but also classical ideals, straying away from building or
revisioning older
works, thus the deconstructionist attitude towards
literature.
It seems that the
Beats did not work towards this end, which is why we can
talk so much of
Buddhism and so on. Think of cummings and his war against
conventional
form. Discussing what he based his form upon would be
impossible if
you're searching for something previously attempted.
>I cannot even
pretend to know what Ginsberg meant when he said that a
future
>generation
would be a Found Generation.
As for a Found
Generation, much of GenX (as I think it's been noted here) is
based upon a slew
of other Generations.. something like art from found
objects,
a generation from
Found Generations. Dunno.. that's just a thought..
>Bonnie Howard
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:58:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: X marks the spot
>Hello guys.
>
>No one
moderates this list and anyone can talk bout anything they want.
>
>But I'd ask
that you stop wasting message space on this as a courtesy to
us.
Even though I
only heard one chime, I will say that this is somewhat off
topic. I don't
mind discussing it, and will answer back any questions
instead
of ignoring
someone, but I will add my chime to the question.
If anyone is
interested, I'm working on starting a mailing list discussing
the major
"radical" literary revolutions such as Dada, surrealism, pomo,
modernism, and
even GenX, as well as trying to find the next literary
revolution. This
is also unmoderated and will include artist sharing
examples as well
as ideas and discussions.
If anyone is
interested, this will not only be a good place to take this
conversation, but
I am always interested in a little feedback and some
ideas before I
get the mailing list underway.
...Critter
(Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:33:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Kirsten asked
about being removed from the list without notice. This will happ
en if, for any
reason, your mail is reported as being "undeliverable." This ha
ppens for several
reasons, often because someone's system fails, usually on the
weekends I
notice. If the listowner did not delete
you, his mailbox would fill
with repeated
mail that "bounces back" from your address. No notice is sent be
cause that notice
would be "undeliverable" and simply "bounce back" to the
list
owners mailbox as
well. If you find yourself off the list,
simply resubscribe.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:18:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Why GenX? (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Someone (I forgot
your name, sorry) said that he has no interest in this GenX
conversation, as
it has nothing to do with The Beats. That's his feeling, but
many sources have
made the connection between GenX & the Beats, the most
notable one I can
think of being the Jack Kerouac School for Disembodied
poets in which
Allen Ginsberg is very involved.
I had also thought of listing
Billy Corgan on this list, but
was afraid of
spawning a Kurt Cobain conversation, and hasn't that been done
enough already?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Along the lines
of your legitimacy for Gen X on this list and your reference
to Cobain
--- If William Burroughs thought enough
about that Generation
and that singer
to record spoken word albums with him, I am not
about to take the
mantle on MY shoulders to tell Burroughs that he is
wrong and that
there is nothing of merit in making that connection.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:22:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Texts/white horses/monkeys/Joan
(fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
> If you can't
stand talking about Genreation X, then start something more
>interesting.
OK. That test pattern on TV what about it? Pretty cool huh?
How long does iut
take for your butter to melt? How much
faster does it
melt per degree
of temprature increase?
Who do you think
is the best accountant?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine this is
supposed to be funny, but instead I find it rather sad
considering that
the Beat related conversation on here revolves around
the name of JK's
cat and ever time someone attempted to start a conversation
about something
involving a literary (oh my did the Beats write?) topic
it is ignored by
the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:35:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: You can't win (fwd) (fwd) (fwd) (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
On Wed, 6 Dec
1995, Peter McGahey wrote:
> mentioned in
the post. The Beats' greatest
achievement is not that
> they
launched the hippi's or any other counter-cultural movement, but
> that they
succeeded, mainly through the post WWII education (GI Bill)
>
opportunities , in breaking poetry out of the Ivory Tower inhabited by
> Auden et al.
and bringing it back to the average Joe in the coffeehouses
> and such.
>
When was poetry
with that average Joe? If you have
sometime in mind, can
you make some
direct link-- stylistically, aesthetically-- with Beat
poetry?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't really
aiming at the style etc of the Beats - what I was aiming at
was the notion
that up until the latter half of the 19th century,
literature was
not an accepted area within the realm of academics. It
wasn't until the
post- and pre- WWI period that the likes of Eliot and
Pound turned
poetry in a exteremly difficult and elite genre. It was no
longer accessible
nor intended to be - to the average person or student.
Beat poets took
poetry out of the academy which is why the likes of
Auden (in D
Trillings' piece) found them to be an unacceptable group
of
pseudo-artists. I don;t know how many of
you are active or into
the current
literary academic scene, but the Beats still have a long
way to go until
they are accepted into the literary canon (don't flame
me for referring
to it). To date, Ginsberg is the only
Beat to be
anthologized in
any accepted college texts like the Norton's.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:43:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Herbert Hunke at UConn
First off - you
have not seen anything of value in your life until
you've sat in on
a personal conversation between Ann Charters and a
real live Beat -
the original Times Square Hipster to boot!
Anyway, something
which all of you ought to appreciate as it is of relevance
to a Beat topic
which someone has deemed acceptable to this list (ha ha)
is that we were
able to turn Hunke's thoughts over to the intended
audience that the
Beats were attempting to address with their work.
At first he
joking mentioned the world at large, but Charters was
able to direct him
towards academia itself (read here 1950's Ivory Tower
academics like
Auden and those who kicked Ginsberg out of Colunbia for
pyschiatric
evaluation). Hunke stated that those who
needed to take a
second look at
what the Beats were saying never did. He
expressed
concern over not
having pursued his education to the level that he
needed in order
to feel comfortable addressing the academy.
All this is
meant to back up
my earlier claim that the Beats were clearly attempting
to bring poetry
out of the academy which was ignoring them.
I hate to make
another plea to authority, but I am not about to tell
Hunke he was
wrong and that the Beats weren't trying to do what he said.
On the whole - an
excellent reading. For a man of such age
and
health, I was
very impressed. If you have any
opportunity to see
him anytime soon
- do it.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:00:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chances and Choices
Hello again
folks,
In a message
dated 95-12-07 08:02:16 EST, Clay Vaughn writes:
++++The incident
may have changed WSB's life, but I don't think anyone
can say he
wouldn't have "continued the pursuit of writing" had this
not occurred.
This thing motivated him to move PHYSICALLY, and
precipitated his
subsequent rootlessness, but he was already writing:
those routines
for which he is hilariously famous began earlier with
Kells Elvins, his
boyhood buddy. I just can't see how this incident,
except
peripherally, perhaps, necessitated his writing.++++++
on one account I
was misleading. Yes, he was already
writing. "And the
Hippos were
boiled in their tanks" (anyone know where to get that one?) is
one example of
this. However, his writing changed a
great deal. I should
not have said
"not continued the pursuit of writing" but rather "changed his
writing" AND "gave the man a newer, new urgency
toward his writing I refer
us to a quote
from WSB in _Literary Outlaw_....
"I am forced
to the appalling conclusion that I would never have become a
writer but for
Joan's death, and to a realization of th extent to which this
event has
motivated and formulated my writing. I
live with the constant
threat of
possession, and a constant need to escape from possession, from
Control. So the death of Joan brought me in contact
with the invader, the
Ugly Spirit, and
maneuvered me into a lifelong struggle, in which I have had
no choice except
to write my way out."
On the second
count, you are dead wrong. Burroughs was
wandering long before
Joan's
death. Chicago, New York, Louisiana,
Texas, Mexico... It was more
common in those
days for a man of his social standing to take a solid job
right out of
college, rather than pick up and move all over the country,
taking unusual
jobs (exterminator) or no jobs at all.
His state was already
"rootlessness"
before that event.
Cheese and rice,
I've been suckered into this discussion.
And I was the one
clamoring about
desire to actually discuss the texts.
with regret,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:33:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D" <rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Why GenX?
>Critter asked
whether Tarentino actually had the smarts to understand the
>imagery of
the white horse - you know, I used to have this vision of QT too
>(like all of
the clever aspects of his movies were accidents?), then I saw
>him on
Charlie Rose. This guy is smart!
I was just
commenting on that fact that what I've seen of him he didn't seem
to be the
BRIGHTEST guy in the world. You're right, all those clever aspects
of his films couldn't
have been accidents. I was thinking that all the nifty
character
allusions from one film to the next was.. well, I just won't say
because I really
do love the guy. I own all of his films and have seen
RD and TR more
times than you can shake a stick at. I'd really like to
see him in a
better light, like on the Charlie Rose show, whatever that
is.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 04:53:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: A turn for the worse....
I'm starting to
care less about WHAT we talk about and am getting concerned
with HOW we talk
about it. Within the last week, a decidedly hostile,
defensive and NOT
respectful attitude has crept onto this list. I thought
this was a place
we could express our opinions without being made fun of or
criticized or
censored. That's changed.
Critter, tell me
more about the list you're thinking of starting. I'm
interested if
it's a place where people aren't going to get flamed for not
obeying rules
they had nothing to do with setting. (By the way, Charlie Rose
is a very good
serious no-frills talk show on PBS).
Ben, you missed
the point of "Being Mindful." I'm not going to explain it,
because I don't
feel like defending my thought process only to open myself up
to
non-constructive criticism anymore.
Before I go, one
last thought from the Tao Te Ching and then I'll stop
cluttering the
list with non-text related stuff : (those not interested in
non-Beat
literature can either skip it or justify reading because Gary Snyder
used to translate
Chinese verse into English))
The more laws and
restrictions there are,
The poorer people
become.
The sharper men's
weapons,
The more trouble
in the land.
The more
ingenious and clever men are,
The more strange
things happen.
The more rules
and regulations,
The more theives
and robbers.
Therefore the
sage says:
I take no action
and people are reformed
I enjoy peace and
people become honest
I do nothing and
people become rich
I have no desires
and people return to the good and simple life.
I'm sure someone
will want to say "Ah hah! But you just quoted someone else
instead of
speaking your own voice." Yeah -
whatever.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:12:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lineage, GenX
Rita and all of
you, with due respect:
In a message
dated 95-12-07 12:22:12 EST, Rita writes:
(BTW-is anyone
else so intigued by Burroughs lineage?
not only the adding
machine but the
robert e. lee thing also. i am amazed at
the popular
influence this
family has had)
I am intrigued by
Burroughs' lineage. My grandmother's
aunt Mabel was still
alive when I was
a young one, and I remember her vividly.
She claimed to be
the youngest
niece of Robt. E. Lee.
Beware. here in the South, the most common
"ancestor" claimed is Robert E.
Lee.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On the topic of
GenX and GenX Writing and the beats....
I am of the
dreaded label, being 28 myself. I don't
see much to the grouping
the writings
under a good solid characterization JUST YET.
It will take a
long time before
we can look back and draw some conclusions about what's
happening
now. The greatest innovation may be
happening not in the writing
itself (sound
familiar?), but in the publishing realm, self-publishing is
what I have in
mind, what with every Scrappy, Dappy, and Doo building his own
web page and all
of the 'zines published out there. I
don't know how GenX
writing relates
to the Beats, except I feel that my generation responds more
to those
performers (primarily their major works) than any other group of
past
artists. AND more writers are being
read, although they are excluded by
higher-ups,
because they can self-publish.
Access. Access. Access.....
As ever,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:12:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Whitney, Fellaheen
Hello folks,
Peter McGahey
wrote:+++++=I was told that in the Whitney exhibit - which is
on Beat artists-
they are displaying a Pollock among other questonable
pieces. How can they
include him in a
Beat exhibit?
I realize that it
is easy to make a cursory connection between Pollock
and some Beats
under the rubric of spontaneous creation of art,
but I don't think
that is acceptable. They apparently
stick many
artists in there
regardless of true affiliation with the Beats.++++++
My response,::I
have read that William S. Burroughs' novel Naked Lunch was
described by Mary
McCarthy as "it also has some of the qualities of an action
painting. It is a kind of *action novel*"
(emphasis WM).
I can see some
relationship between the fragmentation of the two styles,
WSB's and
Pollocks, although I am no authority on either.
Of course, if you
believe that The
Beats were a social phenomenon, and not a literary
phenomenon, then
I can't comment to Pollock's inclusion.
I dont' know much
about the man.
William Miller
Tim Gallaher
wrote that +++I have never heard that Kerouac never read the
book. I always heard he had read it and it was one of
the many books
Burroughs turned
him on to. I never heard of Burroughs
using the term
fellaheen in his
writings (though
I'm not so
familiar with his) but Kerouac used the term many times++++++
Mr. Burroughs
uses the term "fellaheen" quite a bit in his writings,
particularly in
the novels that he wrote in the 70's and 80's, I do believe.
I can believe that Kerouac used the term, AND
read Spengler's book, I just
recall reading
that WSB **tried** to get Kerouac to read it, I never actually
saw that Jack had
read it.
Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:17:02 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Ohmygod!!!! We Killed Chance!!!!!!!!
In your message
dated Tuesday 5, December 1995 you wrote :
> What do you
believe goes through ones mind when we are in our mothers
> womb? Remember, that there is a certain month
during the pregnancy that
> one does
begin hearing. But what is it that the
fetus hears?? Muffled
> sounds. So, that is another reason why I believe that
we are born as a
> blank slate.
I disagree strongly
that we are born as a blank slate. I
presume that what you
mean by this is
that we are born with a fate that is putty in our hands, to be
moulded as we
wish. I also presume that you mean our
cognitive abilities are
able to overcome
our biological 'givens'. Firstly, if this were the case, then
we - humans -
would have become extinct many millenia ago for the simple reason
that to survive,
we must pass on messages (genes) giving what little information
we have learned
about our changing environment to our offspring. These are the
accumulated
messages written in DNA. They are based on chance happenings.
An example (from
The Language of the Genes - v. important book by Steve Jones):
'Many Africans
have an abnormal form of the red pigment of the blood,
haemoglobin. One of the...building blocks of the molecule
itself...has been
changed by
mutation. This 'sickle-cell' form
protects against
malaria...[However,]
people with two copies [of the cell] may suffer from brain
damage, heart
failure and skeletal abnormalities.'
So you can see
that a response to a malarial environment a long time ago affects
people today (in
this case black people in Africa or elsewhere) - and affects
them by
*chance*. This is an extreme case but
applies in many many other
instances as well
- in a cognitive and biological way.
What has this got
to do with the beats, you may ask. And I
don't know the
answer to
that. But what I think it says is that
fate does not exist, and
that we are
affected by a multitude of chance events from the past and present.
Maybe it's a
minute step towards knowing why we are here. What it doesn't tell
us is where we're
going.
Hm...
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:59:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: A turn for the worse....
>Critter, tell
me more about the list you're thinking of starting. I'm
>interested if
it's a place where people aren't going to get flamed for not
>obeying rules
they had nothing to do with setting. (By the way, Charlie
Rose
>is a very
good serious no-frills talk show on PBS).
I never heard of
the Charlie Rose show.. (saying that with an Ahhhhh, Okay,
attitude..).
Anyhow, the list is still "in progress" at the moment. I am
still
working on the
basics and looking at where I want to take this. Most of my
interest lies in
the more "radical" movements in litature that have looked
deep into the
heart of the art in order to change it, keep it in the times,
or
whatever reason.
A secondary motive of mine which I believe is a LITTLE
egotistical
(maybe not): that is, to look at the times and find the roots of
the next movement
in line (if our times mandate such a revolution).
Seriously, I'd
rather the list be composed of like minded thinkers and
artists
who not only
share their knowledge but also their work, and, much like a
group of mad
scientists all working on the ultimate weapon of war, I'd
think a certain
bond would be in order between the people of the list, being
that we are
indeed looking to start the next revolution.
Hell, in these
modern days, where else would a literary revolution start
but on the
Internet? (that's a joke).
..Critter
>The more laws
and restrictions there are,
>The poorer
people become.
>The sharper
men's weapons,
>The more
trouble in the land.
>The more
ingenious and clever men are,
>The more
strange things happen.
>The more rules
and regulations,
>The more
theives and robbers.
>
>Therefore the
sage says:
>I take no
action and people are reformed
>I enjoy peace
and people become honest
>I do nothing
and people become rich
>I have no
desires and people return to the good and simple life.
[The sound of
one-handed applause] hehe..
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:14:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Lineage, GenX
>On the topic
of GenX and GenX Writing and the beats....
>
>I am of the
dreaded label, being 28 myself. I don't
see much to the
grouping
>the writings
under a good solid characterization JUST YET.
It will take a
>long time
before we can look back and draw some conclusions about what's
>happening
now. The greatest innovation may be happening
not in the writing
>itself (sound
familiar?), but in the publishing realm, self-publishing is
>what I have
in mind, what with every Scrappy, Dappy, and Doo building his
own
>web page and
all of the 'zines published out there. I
don't know how GenX
>writing
relates to the Beats, except I feel that my generation responds
more
>to those
performers (primarily their major works) than any other group of
>past
artists. AND more writers are being
read, although they are excluded
by
>higher-ups,
because they can self-publish.
Access. Access. Access.....
>
>As ever,
>
>William
Miller
You hear a lot
about this, how the net makes it possible for anyone to
publish
anything and set
it before millions of readers. This is true, from one
aspect.
They can set it
up to be accessed by those readers, but those readers aren't
necessarily
accessing those pages. For example, my site, which is linked to
a couple thousand
different literature, publishing, and personal web sites,
gets around 40 hits
or so per day. I consider my site fairly known by a
select
amount of people.
Now consider when JoeX puts his home page up with his
writing. By the
end of the year he may have as many readers as he would
have by handing
around photocopies of his work in his own city.
What I'm saying
is, I really don' t think that the Web gives every hack
writer
the op. to
publish his writing. Even on the Usenet those who read it will
consider it yet
another paper in the stack and give it no special concern.
I think of Candy
Colored Clown, an odd man that writes these odd little
peices of
strangeness about the rich and famous. Sure, I remember some
of his work, but
I don't remember what they said, only that he wrote them.
Is that really
the goal of a writer? For myself, I'm fairly well known on
rec.
arts.poems.,
though most people won't be able to quote any of my work
or give a title
of a peice that they enjoyed, they'd just say "Oh, yeah,
that
guy who writes
radical poetry and is trying to start a revolution..."
Lowered to an
icon..
..PomoCritter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 20:46:24 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Thorn
<mthorn@FASTNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: A turn for the worse....
>I'm starting
to care less about WHAT we talk about and am getting concerned
>with HOW we
talk about it. Within the last week, a decidedly hostile,
>defensive and
NOT respectful attitude has crept onto this list. I thought
>this was a
place we could express our opinions without being made fun of or
>criticized or
censored. That's changed.
Liz,
I've been
extremely busy and have only taken cursory note of recent
mailings, but I
hadn't been aware of any flaming taking place - Do you
mean people have
been getting at you through your personal e-mail
address?
Please stay on
the list.
Imagine the sort
of hotwire discussions and ornery arguing that
would be taking
place if, say, Neal Cassidy were able to get
online. There IS
a place for hostility, when it springs
from the
integrity of firmly held views.
Michael,
who'll look out
for your future postings
to see if he can
get the measure of your above complaint
mthorn@fastnet.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:30:21 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Kerouac & Jazz
In your message
dated Wednesday 29, November 1995 you wrote :
> > Can
anyone point me to a reference explicating the influence of Jazz on
> >
Kerouac's prose? TIA.
He wrote
extensively *about* jazz in 'The Beginning of Bop', which I have in a
book of jazz
photography called Nights in Birdland.
The peice has a real jazz
(bop) sound to
it, especially if you read it fast. It starts:
'Bop began with
jazz but one afternoon somewhere on a sidewalk maybe 1939, 1940,
Dizzy Gillespie
or Charley Parker or Thelonious Monk was walking down past a
men's clothing
store on 42nd Street or South Main in LA and from the loudspeaker
they suddenly
heard a wild impossible mistake in jazz that could only have been
heard inside
their own imaginary head, that is a new art. Bop. The name derives
from an accident,
America was named after an Italian explorer and not after an
Indian king. Lionel Hampton had made a record called 'Hey
Baba REe Bop' and
everyboy yelled
it and it was when Lionel would jump in the audience and whale
his saxophone at
everybody with sweat, claps, jumping fools in the aisles, the
drummer booming
and belaboring on his stage as the whole theater rocked.'
There is also a
live recording of K reading this.
--
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:34:02 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Martin
<robmartin@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: A turn for the worse....
On Fri, 8 Dec
1995, Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM> wrote:
>Before I go,
one last thought from the Tao Te Ching and then I'll stop
>cluttering
the list with non-text related stuff : (those not interested in
>non-Beat
literature can either skip it or justify reading because Gary Snyder
>used to
translate Chinese verse into English))
>
>The more laws
and restrictions there are,
>The poorer
people become.
>The sharper
men's weapons,
>The more
trouble in the land.
>The more
ingenious and clever men are,
>The more
strange things happen.
>The more
rules and regulations,
>The more
theives and robbers.
>
>Therefore the
sage says:
>I take no
action and people are reformed
>I enjoy peace
and people become honest
>I do nothing
and people become rich
>I have no
desires and people return to the good and simple life.
Thanks
Liz... I've always wondered how to say
that... Now I know.
----------------------------------------------------
Robert Martin
robmartin@earthlink.net 76403.1534@compuserve.com
The road of
excess leads to the palace of wisdom.
- William Blake
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 23:31:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Whitney, Fellaheen
>>they are
displaying a Pollock among other questonable
>>pieces. How can they include him in a Beat exhibit?
>I realize
that it is easy to make a cursory connection between >Pollock and
some Beats under
the rubric of spontaneous creation of >art, but I don't
think that is
acceptable. They apparently stick many
>artists in
there regardless of true affiliation with the Beats.+++++
I have been
poking around for something linking Pollack to the beats,
I know there's
something but couldn't find it. For a start, how about
proximity in time
and space? I think young Ginsberg and Kerouac
were hanging out
in New York around the same time the Cedar Bar was hopping
with Ab Ex
paintflingers. There were evidently connections between the early
beats, jazz
musicians like T. Monk,
and artists, eg
De Kooning and especially Franz Kline.
As in most
matters, I got more questions than answers - two for now:
Was there a
catalog for the Whitney show?
Anybody know
which artist Ginsberg is referring to in this line from "Throw
out the Yellow
Journalists of Bad Grammar and Terrible Manner" (from White
Shroud):
and the
wire-service fellow ex-Harvard, "This business about Secret Police,
why would you
care, successful Abstract Expressionist painter, got a grudge
to work out on
your parents?" ?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 00:13:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: fellaheen
I've heard (and
would be glad to be set straight by one who knows the
language) that
"fellaheen" means peasant in Arabic.
But like ... William, I
think it was ...
I have browsed through Spengler and haven't found the word.
If anyone can say wher it's to be found IN
Spengler, I'd appreciate it. Got
the book out of
the library. Hadn't been taken out in
fifteen years! But I
think Kerouac did
read some Spengler: he used to call Allen the "last of the
Faustian
men," a Spengler reference, though I can't say for sure what he
meant.
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:22:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A turn for the worse....
Hello folks,
In a message,
someone wrote::
>I'm starting
to care less about WHAT we talk about and am getting concerned
>with HOW we
talk about it. Within the last week, a decidedly hostile,
>defensive and
NOT respectful attitude has crept onto this list. I thought
>this was a
place we could express our opinions without being made fun of or
>criticized or
censored. That's changed.
>
i CERTAINLY did
not mean to offend this person by
simply stating that I
would
"relish a discussion of the fictions, the actual TEXTS, of these
writers". If someone responds to my text, positive or
negative, that's
criticism. I welcome that. Criticism helps me. If you disagree with me,
please say
so. If you always agree with me and come
out in support of my
opinions, you're
certainly not reading what I'm writing.
Please, whoever
you are, stay on the list. I meant no
harm, I just came here
to exchange views
and info on Burroughs and the others.
With respect,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 10:55:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Read OTR Together?
I agree that a
discussion of selected text of the Beat writers
would be
nice. Howard Park and I are about to
reread OTR for the
Smithsonian
course we are both taking. The danger of
a group
reading of OTR
might be that it is probably the most read of any
Beat book and
everything that can be said about it might already
have been
said. But if people are interested I
would suggest the
possibility of a
reading where we all get generally in sync and
take a certain
amount of pages a week and focus on them.
My
suggested focus
would be to take up on an earlier post and that
would be the
degree to which OTR is a revolutionary text --
stylistically and
otherwise -- or is JK merely following in the
tradition of
Gertrude Stein and others. Also where do
we see the
influence of the
French poets -- Rimbaud et. al. My
request to
the academics out
there who might know all the answers would be
to let us muddle
through and give us a goose every now and then
in the right
direction if we appear to wandering too far off, but
not to inundate
us with massive amounts of information that will
make our own
humble ramblings appear even more humble.
I think
that was the
sense I got from an earlier post which had
misgivings about
getting too far into the text. The list
has the
whole spectrum of
knowledge, from people who are just getting
into "The
Beats" to people who grew up with them and have been
studying them
formally for years, so I think it behooves us to
try to
accommodate all. So what do people
think?
Several of you
have requested my piece on postmodern poetry so
now I will have
to try to find it. I'll hopefully get it
off in
a couple of days.
BTW anyone who
really wants a good insight into WSB's evolution
as a writer and
the impact of the shooting on him NEEDS to read
his letters. I think of anything if have read of his, his
letters were the
most important -- more so than other writers
whose text are
more linear.
Pollock at the
Whitney -- I guess they felt they didn't have
enough art in the
exhibit. Certainly Ginsberg and Frank
O'Hara
did have
commonality and they read together. And
certainly NY
School was one of
the more important parallel movements of the
time, but Pollock
died in 1956 and was the early phase of the
NYS. They would have been better off with a Larry
Rivers piece
where there is a
much more solid link.
Perry Lindstrom
PS We should also
delve more into the postmodernity of OTR, if we
decide to go
ahead with the read.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 14:13:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Whitney, Fellaheen (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I have been
poking around for something linking Pollack to the beats,
I know there's
something but couldn't find it. For a start, how about
proximity in time
and space? I think young Ginsberg and Kerouac
were hanging out
in New York around the same time the Cedar Bar was hopping
with Ab Ex
paintflingers. There were evidently connections between the early
beats, jazz
musicians like T. Monk,
and artists, eg
De Kooning and especially Franz Kline.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off - I
love that term - "paintflingers"
I hope don't mind if I adopt it
Second - as per
someone's suggestion, I have read all my postings before
responding and
have to mention that Perry Lindstrom hit on things that I
would like to
mention but the limitations of the UConn mainframe
prevent me from
qouting more that one of the postings.
I harp on this
because my graduate thesis will most likely be exactly on
this topic. Although the Beats and the New York School
(O'Hara, Ashbury
etc) were
contemporaries, I think there are important differences. The
NY School, unlike
the Beats, were friends with the AB Ex painters. The
Cedar was a great
gathering place for the NY School bothpoets and painters.
O'Hara etc knew
and supported the Ab Ex's (O'Hara was a curator at Moma)
while the Beats
rarely saw or associated with either of the NY Schools.
O'Hara and
Kerouac pretty much hated each other.
That's extraneous
- what I think is the big difference is exactly what this
posting brought
up. The Beats were very much influenced
by jazz etc. Theirs
was an aural
poetry. "Howl" and
"Mexico City Blues" are not given justice
unless they are
read aloud. If you haven't yet, you must
find a recording
and listen to
Kerouac and Ginsberg read their poems - it adds so much more.
Thus, their
spontaneous poerty is for the ear. The
AB EX painters and their
counterparts, the
NY School poets are VISUAL. You need to
see a Poloock
or a Kline to see
their visual image of spontanaity. If
you read an
O'Hara like
"The Day Lady Died" you see the images in your head rather
than hear
it. That is what I think is an important
difference, more so
than my little
investigation into their personal feelings for eachpother.
For reasons
similar to this (I am not an art historian) I see differences
between the West
Coast movement of this time as well. The
San Francisno
painters may have
had similar ideas as the NY School, but there are important
subtle
differences. I personally have a problem
extending the definition
of
"Beat" to include anyone not in the direct circle of the Fab Four -
JK,
Ginsberg, WB and
Corso. Their immediate circle inclded
many, Carr, Hunke
etc. but I don;'t
think it really included many of the West Coaster.
What do you all
think? Is Snyder and McClure etc a
viable "Beat"?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 14:31:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Martin
<robmartin@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Read OTR Together?
On Sat, 9 Dec
1995, Perry Lindstrom <LindLitGrp@AOL.COM> wrote:
>I agree that
a discussion of selected text of the Beat writers
>would be
nice. Howard Park and I are about to
reread OTR for the
>Smithsonian
course we are both taking. The danger of
a group
>reading of
OTR might be that it is probably the most read of any
>Beat book and
everything that can be said about it might already
>have been
said. But if people are interested I
would suggest the
>possibility
of a reading where we all get generally in sync and
>take a
certain amount of pages a week and focus on them.
I'm all for
it. But I'll probably just wind up
reading everyone else's
comments, I'm
just a recreational Kerouac user.
----------------------------------------------------
Robert Martin
robmartin@earthlink.net 76403.1534@compuserve.com
The road of
excess leads to the palace of wisdom.
- William Blake
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:49:30 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Daeley
<rdaeley@EMPIRENET.COM>
Subject: POEM
Regarding recent
list laughing-ravings, I offer up Monsieur Kerouac and
his
"POEM" (from 1959):
POEM
Jazz killed
itself
But dont let
poetry kill itself
Dont be afraid
of the cold night air
Dont listen to
institutions
when you return
manuscripts to
brownstone
dont bow &
scuffle
for Edith Wharton pioneers
or ursula major
nebraska prose
just hang in your own backyard
& laugh play pretty
cake trombone
& if somebody
give you beads
juju, jew, or otherwise,
sleep with em
around your neck
Your dreams'll
maybe better
There's no rain
there's no me,
I'm tellin ya man
sure as shit.
----------------------
Robert Daeley
rdaeley@empirenet.com
http://www.empirenet.com/~rdaeley/
Authors Links
& Info page:
http://www.empirenet.com/~rdaeley/authors/authors.html
Film Directors
Links & Info page:
http://www.empirenet.com/~rdaeley/directors/directors.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:19:04 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@AUC"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Usages of "Fellaheen"
William
Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM> wrote:
>Tim Gallaher
wrote that +++I have never heard that Kerouac never read the
>book. I always heard he had read it and it was one
of the many books
>Burroughs
turned him on to. I never heard of
Burroughs using the term
>fellaheen in
his writings (though
>I'm not so
familiar with his) but Kerouac used the term many times++++++
>
>Mr. Burroughs
uses the term "fellaheen" quite a bit in his writings,
>particularly
in the novels that he wrote in the 70's and 80's, I do believe.
> I can
believe that Kerouac used the term, AND read Spengler's book, I just
>recall
reading that WSB **tried** to get Kerouac to read it, I never actually
>saw that Jack
had read it.
>
>Miller
>
Could we maybe
move a bit beyond these hazy references like "quite a bit"
and "many
times"? Kerouac riffs on "Fellahin" (his spelling) in OTR, part
Four, chapter 6,
p. 274 in the Penguin Modern Classics paperback, 1978
reprint. Now give
me a usable reference to Burroughs' use of the concept,
please....
Regards,
bs@AUC
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:26:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 8 Dec 1995 to 9 Dec
1995
Bravo,
Perry! I think there's probably enough
people with deep familiarity
with OTR to help
out those just getting into it. And with
270-some
subscribers here
(or was that when no one knew how to get off?!), I think we
can maintain a
good reading group. And there's a
Christmas scene in the
book, too, as I
recall, which makes it seasonal!
Just say when,
I'll be there. We might then follow it
up with a more minor
work -- but I'm
sure whatever we do, we'll have experts out there.
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:48:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Read OTR Together?
In-Reply-To: <v01530503acefbceb9b2c@[153.37.59.41]>
from "Robert Martin" at
Dec 9, 95 02:31:01 pm
Like Robert, I am
also a "recreational Kerouac user," and I think an OTR
discussion group
would be great. How/when do we start?
Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:38:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Michael Herr Interview/OTR Movie
First, before we
get into one of those silly "Is he/she beat enough to be
discussed on this
list" discussions -- Michael Herr is the author of the most
recent On The
Road screenplay. He is also a fine
writer. His book,
"Dispatches"
was one of the best ever about the Vietnam war. He was
interviewed in a
small (not one of the major corporate ones) video store
giveaway
magazines that I found in a place in Cambridge, Mass, near Harvard
Square.
He had a lot of
interesting things to say.
Unfortionately, I lost the
magazine and
forget the name (sorry!). Also, I was
visiting Boston from DC,
so I can't go
back there anytime soon. If anyone can
get there, I think the
place was called
Psychotronic Video on Mass. Ave., about two blocks east of
Harvard Square.
Anyway, the movie
has been shelved for the time being and he was not certain
at all that it
will ever be made. I hope it happens!
Coppola has
commissioned several screenplays over the years. Apparently,
Herr's is the
only one to get serious consideration for eventual production.
Originally, in the 50's, the movie was to have
cast Marlon Brando as the
lead (I assume
Cassidy - actually I think he would have made a better Sal
Paradise). But, with all the beat mass hysteria and the
absolute butchery of
the
Subterranians, it never got made.
In general, Herr
said that he followed the book pretty closely but they had
to cut major
stuff, such as most of the "Mexican Girl" sequence.
He complained
that Neal Cassidy is especially hard to cast.
He said that the
focus is definately on the pure "road" parts of the book,
and less on the
times in-between trips.
One past
(rejected) screenplay condensed the whole book into one coast to
coast and back
again sequence. Herr felt that was too
much of a departure.
Herr mentioned
how almost everyone thinks OTR took place in the fifties. Of
course it was
1947-48 (I think).
That covers the
highlights of what I remember. Anyone
else seen the
interview?
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:43:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fellahin 2
Ted and others,
"Fellah
type" appears in Spengler's book here:
In the section entitled
"Cities and
Peoples", about 1/4 of the way through, in a paragraph
immediately
**preceded** by a paragraph which ends with the phrase "Nora and
Nana".
It also appears
two pages later. This is page 251 in my
abridged volume.
The term
"fellaheen" also recurs in the last paragraph of the section entited
"Cities and
Peoples" (Section XIII)
Perhaps it can be
found in more places, but this is where I found it.
Yours,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:44:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Read OTR Together?
Hello folks,
I probably would
not participate; I'd rather have a group reading of another
Kerouac
novel. On the Road is the one I am most
familiar with, and I have
planned to read
some others before coming back to that one.
But I would
encourage all to participate, and I may go along with it; perhaps
it would lead to
a groupreading of another book later............... it
beats (no pun
intended) whatever else we could be discussing...
William
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:22:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Got your Mojo workin?
<an272@LEO.NMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Read OTR Together?
In-Reply-To:
<951210204310_129970921@mail02.mail.aol.com>
Hello,
This is my first post to this list and
just got to that it's
great to find a
list about the beats. I'm relativly new to the beat
lterature also, I
got the portable beat reader in the spring and have
since been
reading every related book the local
bookstore has to offer.
Anyway I'd love
to read OTR along with you all and see your views. Can't
say that I can
offer to much in the way of literary critisicm or other
complex avenues
of trying to therorize passages in ways Kerouac probably
didn't think of
anyway, but I sure will try and enjoy trying!
Tom
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:56:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: OTR Reading
I'm glad to see
the interest in reading OTR together. I
have already started
and would suggest
roughly that we read Part 1 over the next two weeks. Parts
2&3 could get
a week each and parts 4&5 could be covered in a week (since
part five is just
a couple pages) -- making this a 5 week project. I realize
people might be
going off on holiday and might not have access to the list
for a few days at
a time so we could slow things down during that period.
I'll be reading from the Penguin Classics
edition with Jack and Neal on the
cover so my page
references will be to that. I'll try to
include chapter and
paragraph
references for people reading in other editions. It is 6:30 a.m.
right now so I
don't really have anything coherent to say, but I do have an
opening
question. On page 8 of my edition -- the
long paragraph (11 I
believe) that
begins "We went to New York--" contains the now famous passage
about
"...the only people for me are the mad ones..." After the wonderful
image of the
roman candles he asks: "What did
they call such young people in
Goethe's
Germany?" Is he invoking Goethe as
history's quintessential
intellectual and
contrasting the young to him. Or is he
invoking Goethe to
give his own work
an intellectual basis -- a validity that would fly in the
face of how his
work would likely be judged based on his use of the beatnik
vernacular? Towards the end of chapter One he contrasts Dean's (or should I
say Neal's -- I
guess since we are discussing text here I will stick to the
fictional names)
raw, sensual intelligence with his other friends -- not in a
way that would
have made the rest of them very happy I might add. The most
telling
line: "Besides all my New York
friends were in the negative,
nightmare
position of putting down society and giving their tired bookish or
political or
psychoanalytical reasons, but Dean just raced in society..." So
why invoke Geothe
-- was Jack conflicted on this? Enough
for now...it's off
to work.
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:38:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Usages of "Fellaheen"
Comments: To:
i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Hello folks:
In a message
dated 95-12-10 10:24:16 EST, the person in Denmark wrote:
>>Mr.
Burroughs uses the term "fellaheen" quite a bit in his writings,
>>particularly
in the novels that he wrote in the 70's and 80's, I do
believe.
>> I can
believe that Kerouac used the term, AND read Spengler's book, I just
>>recall
reading that WSB **tried** to get Kerouac to read it, I never
>actually saw
that Jack had read it.
>>
>>Miller
>>
>
>Could we
maybe move a bit beyond these hazy references like "quite a bit"
>and
"many times"? Kerouac riffs on "Fellahin" (his spelling) in
OTR, part
>Four, chapter
6, p. 274 in the Penguin Modern Classics paperback, 1978
>reprint. Now
give me a usable reference to Burroughs' use of the concept,
>please....
>
>Regards,
>
You may not find
this to be "usable", but in _The Western Lands_,
(Burroughs), ISBN
0140094563, i find the term ^fellahin^ on a page, "...The
Western Lands of
the rich are watered by *fellaheen blood, built of
*fellaheen flesh
and bones, lighted by *fellaheen spirit."(* =
italicized)....again,
same book, a few pages later, "...store the plasma of
the fellaheen
neded to preserve their masters..."
_The Place of
Dead Roads_ (Burroughs) isbn 805039546, near the beginning of
the section entitled
"Quien Es?" "...they
never ask themselves how such a
system *could
work. It ran on fellahin blood...."
Burroughs' use of
the concept of the fellaheen is found throughout his
fiction, in my
opinion, although he uses the *term less often than the
concept.
I'm sorry that
you find "quite a bit" to be hazy.
I don't have a true
scientific count
of the frequency of the term "fellaheen" in WSB's writings.
I found these 3 in about 5 minutes, though, if
that gives you any clue....
And that's what I
call quite a bit..
Yours,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:15:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Whitney, Fellaheen
In answer to
someone's question, yes there is a catalog from the Whitney
show. It's $35, very ecclectic...interesting...a
lot of original stuff in
it, it's not full
of already over anthologized stuff...I suppose any good
bookstore could
special order it and I'm sure the hard working beat
booksellers on
the net will have it.
Also, I think the
beat-Pollock link is pretty strong. Both
were very much
out of the same
post-war cultural ferment of the late 40's in New York and
Pollock was
certainly known to AG, JK, etc. as well as anyone who hung out at
the Cedar
Bar. Pollock was pretty notorious, more
so than AG or Kerouac at
the time (except
for the Carr episode). In any case the
Pollock painting at
the Whitney
exhibit is probably more connected to the beats than most of the
others.
H. Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:39:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul Rice <PAULR@COASTAL.EDU>
Organization: Coastal
Carolina University
Subject: Re: Lineage, GenX
I really think
that a discussion of GenX is germane to any discussion
of the
Beats. The intellectual history of the
Postmodern is
inextricably tied
up in the value system of the revolution of the
sixties. The MTV mentality is the absurd reduction of
the anti-intellectual,
anti-university
impetus of beats like Snyder, who while he remains
one of my heroes,
was hard on formal education even though he is
extremely
learned. Some hypocrisy here, I think.
Autodidacticism
easily gives way to adidacticism. And I
am reminded of the
Beatle's
anti-capitalist songs written while their CEO hauled their
money to bank in
trucks. I am a
hippie-turned-professor. My
Snyder-reading,
reefer-smoking days, delayed my education by ten
years. I teach thedrug-torpid, addled know-nothings
which the children of my
generation have
become. I'm sure this is not what Gary
and Jack and
Allen had in
mind, but they helped make it his way.
Jack said as
much before he
died.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:21:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR Reading
Re: Goethe
question - I'd just say that, given Kerouac's obsession with
famious writers
he was just using it as a historical reference - like
"Kennedy's
America" or "Hitler's Germany" or "Blake's England" --
Kerouac was
into the classic
writers, so in comparing his generation to anther time and
place it would be
quite natural to invoke the name of a writer identified
with a country
and a time. I know almost nothing about
Goethe. I took all
sociology and
pol. science classes in college.
I'll probably
read OTR in one or two sittings but I'd be happy to join in any
discussions. I'm already feeling stressed about all I have
to do before
Xmas. I won't pick it up till late Dec.
Hope you can make
the Sat. show. It will be loud rock, so
make sure you're
in the mood for
that. Let me know if you have any
questions about the show.
Howard
Howard
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 01:30:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Goethe
I tend to think
the reference is to young early Romantics -- "bohemians" --
these 1940s
drop-out non-conformists self-styling themselves upon past
instances of
young sensitive spiritual sorrowful (as in ... of Young Werther)
aberrant
behavior.
Reminds me:
there's an episode of Blackadder (British comedy starring Rowan
Atkinson) set in
the 19th century, on Brit romantics (inexactly quoted):
"they just
wander around Europe in big shirts trying to get laid."
That's my speculation.
By the way, if
anyone's interested in a good book about the NY "Underground"
art scene, one
which by not sticking too heavily with definitions like beat
or abstract
expressionist makes links among people who were all in the same
place at the same
time, Village late 1940s-early 60s, check out Ron
Sukenick's _Down
& In: Life in the Underground_.
Great descriptions of
scenes at bars
like San Remo, Minetta's, etc., as well as much off-the-cuff
interviewing of
Ginsberg, Baraka, Corso, etc. Pollock
and so-called Beats
got drunk at same
time, same places. What more does one
need?
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 04:54:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: chance - rant rave
before i start on this nonsense,
liz prato
WRITE MORE!!!!
the question of spontaneity in kerouac's
writing led to a thread
of...
> I
believe...that there is no such thing as chance. Everything stems
> from some
sort of experience. Our whole life has
been experience
> after
experience. If he says that it is chance
it is probably a
> subconcious
memory or experience that is being
written down onto
> his paper.
> molly (i
think, apologies in advance if i'm wrong)
if there is no such thing as chance, then
everything is pre-ordained,
pre-destined...and therefore a god...
> There is
nothing *but* chance in life. Life is
chance. OK, it may
> be that what
is 'experience' stems from a chance happening to
> ourselves or
to our ancestors but it is (was) chance.
It was chance
> that your
parents met one another (not meant as a flame!)...
> I'd like to
expand on this later.
> Simon Okotie
if everything is chance, then nothing is
pre-ordained, and there is
no such thing as destiny...and therefore no
god...
the final side of this triangle is that the
only thing that is
pre-ordained is the fact that there is
nothing pre-ordained and
therefore a god who 'rolls a die' as i think
einstein once
remarked...and hawking later ridiculed...
catholism is essentially a 'god' religion...
i.e. if you don't believe in god, the
religion falls flat on it's
arse and cannot possibly work for you
buddhism is essentially a 'no god'
religion...
i.e. whether you do or don't belive in god,
the religion can still
work for you
interesting paradox to the catholic v
buddhist 'struggle' of
kerouac...grew from catholic...into
buddhist...back again but
never the same...kerouac believed in
spontaneous prose, for
those who haven't read the henry miller
preface to the subs i
include the following...
" jack
kerouac has done something to our immaculate prose from
which it may never recover. a passionate lover of language, he
knows how to use it. born virtuoso that he is, he takes pleasure
in defying the laws and conventions of
literary expression which
cripple genuine, untrammeled communication
between reader and
writer.
as he has so well said in 'the essentials of spontaneous
prose' - 'satisfy yourself first, then reader
cannot fail to
receive telephathic shock and
meaning-excitement by same laws
operating in his own human mind'. "
i believe the spontaneous side of kerouac was
very much his buddhist
beliefs but had more roots in the personality
of a certain mr
cassady.
personally i think he believed more in proust and dostoevsky
than either of the two religions. i think he drew more from
experience and the perception of mind
altering drugs. he only ever
claimed to be a writer (experience) and a
lonely lost soul (drugs).
however, he could never have claimed to be a
catholic mystic unless
his religion affected him to the degree this
list reads & writes about
(myself included!).
responsiblity. yes everyone is responsible for their
actions! but
in no way responsible for consequences of
their actions.
ie. if ginsberg writes about young boys, then
is he responsible for
others who mess with young boys after
reading his work? it must
be the responsibility of the reader.
ie. if burroughs writes about drugs, is he
then responsible for other
junkies who follow his example? or for the junkies who give up
because of burroughs nightmares and
encounters with mr death?
unless we can see into the future before an
action is taken, we cannot
be held repsponsible for the consequences of
our actions.
i hold responsiblity for this belief, but not
repsonsiblity for the
consequences of this belief. i can't read your mind ;-)
if you believe that others aren't responsible
for themselves, then
you become a censor believing you know what's
best for others.
and for you gossip mongers interested in the
sexuality of the beats
i have a j.issacs video interview with allen
ginsberg (1994), where
mr ginsberg states that he never slept with
mr kerouac. contrary to
previous e-mail messages.
joe
currently avoiding the russian snow
blanketing northern england by
fleeing to southern spain on a hemmingway
inspired expedition to write
spontaneous code (computer language - like
kerouac programmed
our minds!) for the sake of all those
encapsulated by these digital
toys.
fuckin' tosh or what man!
this is the tale of a northern soul,
looking to find his way back home...
i want to see if you know me,
i was born in a rented room.
my mam she didn't get no flowers,
dad didn't aprove of me do you i'm alive -
with something inside of me,
i don't think i'm coming down...
give me your powder and pills,
i want to see if they cure my ills.
got no time for love and devotion,
got no time for old fashioned potions.
cos i'm alive...
with something inside of me...
and i don't think i'm coming down...
r.ashcroft
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 11:35:43 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: chance - rant rave
> the question of spontaneity in kerouac's
writing led to a thread...
Thanks, Joe, for
spinning that spontaneous thread...a very interesting
discussion when
put together like that...
> if everything is chance, then nothing is
pre-ordained, and there is
> no such thing as destiny...and therefore no
god...
I believe there
is some sort of individual 'destiny' made up off stored
'experiences'
from our own lifetime (memories) and from our forebears' lives
(genes) and that
these experiences are based on an accumulation of many many
chance
occurrences. It is the sheer scale of
the number of chance occurrences
and the
impossibility of untangling the web of linkages that leads us to feel
that there must
be a destiny which is given to us by a higher force. However,
this does not
*necessarily* mean that there is no god, since the fundamental
question remains
about how the whole process started...so I believe that your
comment above is
a non-sequitur.
> the final side of this triangle is that the
only thing that is
> pre-ordained is the fact that there is
nothing pre-ordained and
> therefore a god who 'rolls a die' as i think
einstein once
> remarked...and hawking later ridiculed...
Einstein actually
said 'God does not play dice'. By the way - which Hawking are
we talking about?
Have a good time
in Spain...!
Simon Okotie
e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
tel: +181 830 3604
22 The Avenue
Queen's Park
London
NW6 7YD
UK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 06:40:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: OTR Reading Time
I have realized
that I greatly overestimated the time needed to read OTR. It
simply can not be
read slowly. So unless people have a whole
lot to say
about it I can't
imagine five weeks on it. Although
certainly a thread could
last that long if
we get off on a particular tangent -- so let's just read
the durn
thing. I notice that Goethe reappears
when he first gets to Denver
-- he takes a nap
under a bust of Goethe -- father figure?
Perry
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:55:59 MET
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dale Carter <engdc@HUM.AAU.DK>
Organization:
Faculty of Arts, Aarhus University
Subject: Re: William Burroughs and William Tell
Someone was
asking recently about specific evidence concerning a link
between William
Burroughs' shooting of his wife, Joan, and his writing.
One source on
this is Mr. Burroughs' own introduction to the 1985 Viking Penguin
edition of Queer.
In it, the author writes breifly but directly
about the
shooting and his subsequent literary career:
'I am forced to
the appalling conclusion that I would never have
become a writer
but for Joan's death, and to a realization of the
extent to which
this event has motivated and formulated my writing. I
live with the
constant threat of possession, and a constant need to
escape from
possession, from Control. So the death of Joan bought me
in contact with
the invader, the Ugly Spirit, and maneuvered me into
a lifelong
struggle, in which I have had no choice except to write my
way out.'
William
Burroughs, Queer (London: Pan, 1986), p. 18. This book was
originally
published as a Viking Penguin in 1985.
Dale Carter (Dr)
Department of
English
University of
Aarhus
DK-8000 Aarhus C
Denmark
phone: (Denmark =
45) 89 42 21 21
fax: (Denmark = 45) 86 19 16 99
email:
engdc@hum.aau.dk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:54:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 8 Dec 1995 to 9 Dec
1995
William - I just
want you to know it was not you I was referring to. Your
request was
respectful & appropriate. Hope you get what you're looking for.
- Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:22:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: paul a weinfield
<pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR Reading
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<951211220946_51463990@emout06.mail.aol.com>
-- another
instance where this is true: in the Subterraneans, he remarks
that his
generation reacts differently whereas "Dostoevsky would've said
`WHAT'". Just a thought.....
On Mon, 11 Dec
1995, Howard Park wrote:
> Re: Goethe
question - I'd just say that, given Kerouac's obsession with
> famious
writers he was just using it as a historical reference - like
>
"Kennedy's America" or "Hitler's Germany" or "Blake's
England" -- Kerouac was
> into the
classic writers, so in comparing his generation to anther time and
> place it
would be quite natural to invoke the name of a writer identified
> with a
country and a time. I know almost
nothing about Goethe. I took all
> sociology
and pol. science classes in college.
>
> I'll
probably read OTR in one or two sittings but I'd be happy to join in any
>
discussions. I'm already feeling
stressed about all I have to do before
> Xmas. I won't pick it up till late Dec.
>
> Hope you can
make the Sat. show. It will be loud
rock, so make sure you're
> in the mood
for that. Let me know if you have any
questions about the show.
>
> Howard
>
> Howard
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:27:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: paul a weinfield
<pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>
Comments: To:
Beat Net <beat-l%cunyvm.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu>
to all--
here's just a thought, and it will
probably start a fight, but
these fights
always seem to spark interesting ideas, so what the hell.
everyone always talks about how On the
Road is a take-off of huck
finn. i'm not sure i agree, but i do think that if
any claims to kerouac
"takin off"
anything are to exist, we should look at the similarities
between The
Subterraneans and Hemmingway's The Sun Also Rises. just a
thought........
-- paul
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:05:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Being that The
Sun Also rises is my favorite book, i would love to hear how you
figure this to be
true. I would think it is more like Dostoyevsky's Notes From
Underground. Even
the title is similar: Sub=Under, Terrain=Ground.
Love Always,
Eric Simpkins
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:59:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sun vs. Sub
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 12 Dec 1995
16:05:39 EST
I once tried to
pursue the thought; comparing the Beat Generation to the
Lost Generation.
Not much to really go with, there. Two different
historical times,
different mind-sets...
In the
introduction of my paperback copy of The Subs, mention is made
that the book is
Jack's version of Notes From The Underground.
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:03:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sun vs. Sub (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I once tried to
pursue the thought; comparing the Beat Generation to the
Lost Generation.
Not much to really go with, there. Two different
historical times,
different mind-sets...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the book _13th
Gen_ by Neil Howe and Bill Strauss there is an excellent
link made (on
many grounds, mainly sociological) between the Lost
Generation and
GenX. Ha Ha - isn't it funny that that
keeps coming up.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:17:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: paul a weinfield
<pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <01HYQ0RDLR0Y91VXDP@SONOMA.EDU>
-- i don't have a
copy of the sun also rises from which to refer and it's
been several
years since i read it, but i will get back to you on that
one. as for the notes from the underground thing,
i think that's kind of
unlikely. kerouac
was obviously influenced by dostoevsky but the plots,
themes, and
symbols in both novels are radically different.
-- paul
On Tue, 12 Dec
1995, Mr. Congeniality wrote:
> Being that
The Sun Also rises is my favorite book, i would love to hear how
you
> figure this
to be true. I would think it is more like Dostoyevsky's Notes From
> Underground.
Even the title is similar: Sub=Under, Terrain=Ground.
>
> Love Always,
> Eric Simpkins
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:03:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: rant rave oops
> if everything is chance, then nothing is
pre-ordained, and there is
> no such thing as destiny...and therefore no
god...
>I believe
there is some sort of individual 'destiny' made up off
>stored
'experiences' from our own lifetime (memories) and from our
>forebears'
lives (genes) and that these experiences are based on an
>accumulation
of many many chance occurrences. It is
the sheer scale of
>the number of
chance occurrences and the impossibility of untangling the
>web of
linkages that leads us to feel that there must be a destiny which
>is given to
us by a higher force. However, this does
not *necessarily*
>mean that
there is no god, since the fundamental question remains about
>how the whole
process started...so I believe that your comment above is a
>non-sequitur.
i don't why i get
into these sort of conversations thru short
paragraphed
e-mail, but...
in context to the
complete e-mail of *catholic & buddhist religious
belief*, i was
leading into kerouacs struggle of catholism v buddhism,
his style of
writing and how the 'chance' discussions could 'sort of
highlight' this
by what are in essence the religious arguments for
the existence of
a god and their reference to destiny/chance.
the point i was
trying to illustrate was that if life has a 'destiny'
then someone or
something must have created that 'destiny' hence a 'god'.
if you believe in
any form of 'destiny' (even the destiny of chance!)
you believe in a
'god/creator/ruler' etc.
if there is 'no
destiny', _everything_ is pure chance/accident/
circumstance
etc., then logically there must be 'no god'.
remember the
principle of logic is True/False, Yes/No etc.
however, like you
say, this world is sooooo huge & there exists sooo
many logical
mysteries everywhere, that i attempted to bridge the gap
between the first
two propositions...
ABSTRACT DICE!
> the final
side of this triangle is that the only thing that is
> pre-ordained
is the fact that there is nothing pre-ordained and
> therefore a
god who 'rolls a die' as i think einstein once
>
remarked...and hawking later ridiculed...
'god' has sort of said 'let there now be no
god'...
i hope this is the case, cos if life is the
logical opposite to
death and death therefore the logical
opposite to life, then there
is a third state of flux existing between the
two to ensure transition!
we'll be in a fine mess if there isn't!
> Einstein
actually said 'God does not play dice'. By the way - which
> Hawking are
we talking about?
you're right, i
now recall hawking (stephen) said it against einstein
and then later
exclaimed that 'not only does god play dice, but he also
throws them into
parts of the universe where he can't see them'.
the point i was
making, is that there is (provable? - to a select
few on this
planet!) room for both...
i think kerouac
realised this (in his own way) and thus developed his
style of
spontaneous prose from the 'chance' element rather than 'lets
plan this'
element. make any sort of sense?
apologies if this
sounds like bullshit but i'm young and have much to
learn.
> Have a good
time in Spain...!
i'm trying,
- not that it's
very difficult ;-)
> Simon Okotie
> e-mail:
simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
> tel: +181 830 3604
> 22 The
Avenue
> Queen's Park
> London
> NW6 7YD
> UK
is this really
such a good idea?
you're home
telephone number _and_ home address!
there's some
crazy mothers out there
- dice that 'god'
didn't even know he'd thrown never mind couldn't see!
lock you're doors
& kind regards
joe
'all truth is
simple - is that not a compound lie?'
- f.nietzsche
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:43:14 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn
<c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: rant rave oops
In-Reply-To:
<951214160325_100106.1102_EHQ69-2@CompuServe.COM>
On Thu, 14 Dec
1995, Joe wrote:
>
> if there is
'no destiny', _everything_ is pure chance/accident/
> circumstance
etc., then logically there must be 'no god'.
>
> remember the
principle of logic is True/False, Yes/No etc.
>
Though I'm an
advocate of "let's talk about the texts" I couldn't let
this comment go
by-- logic just ain't logical any more-- dialectical
thinking has
been, well "deconstructed." There
is no true without false,
yes without no,
self without other-- and, I guess, god without chance.
wow. kept that short.
yrs. &c.
steven cahn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:16:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Whatuv@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
Comments: To: BoomShenka@aol.com,
Elder#m#_Bo@msgate.apple.com,
bastein@imap2.asu.edu,
creeps@pipeline.com, jgold@instinet.com,
Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com
Comments: cc:
ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com, cooling@students.BITNET
This is an OLD
example of what's called "Urban folklore", in other words,
CRAP!!
First of all,
this is not possible, second of all, it's an old myth that's
been flying
around the InterNet for years!!!
Perhaps we should
all wear aluminium on our heads to keep out the "alien mind
control
lasers" from controling our brains....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:29:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Whatuv@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
Comments: To:
Elder#m#_Bo@msgate.apple.com, bastein@imap2.asu.edu,
creeps@pipeline.com, jgold@instinet.com,
Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com,
Little#m#_Mike@msgate.apple.com
Comments: cc:
ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com, cooling@students.BITNET
Also, feel free
to check out the following newsgroups on the InterNet :
alt.folklore.urban
alt.planning.urban
alt.urban.folklore
as they have all
sorts of information on these sorts of things....
again, the myth
is crap, totally UNTRUE, and in fact impossible to do the
things the
original message claims it can do. The
info was also condemned as
crap by both
America On Line (a LONG time ago!!) & by someone at the FCC.
Sorry if the info
scared anyone, but, hey, there's a lot of crappy info out
there, and lots
of people constantly making up more new crap for lots of
various reasons,
so, be careful about what you choose to believe in ( which
is a DAMN GOOD
idea anyway!)
Love to all,
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:46:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Elder, Bo"
<Elder#m#_Bo@MSGATE.APPLE.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
Comments: To:
bastein@imap2.asu.edu, BoomShenka@aol.com, creeps@pipeline.com,
jgold@instinet.com, Whatuv@aol.com,
"Ganyard, Joye"
<Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com>
Comments: cc:
cooling@students.BITNET, ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com
What's a virus?
_______________________________________________________________________________
From:
Whatuv@aol.com on Thu, Dec 14, 1995 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
To: Elder, Bo;
Ganyard, Joye; BoomShenka@aol.com; bastein@imap2.asu.edu;
creeps@pipeline.com;
jgold@instinet.com
Cc:
BEAT-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu; ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com; cooling@students
This is an OLD
example of what's called "Urban folklore", in other words,
CRAP!!
First of all,
this is not possible, second of all, it's an old myth that's
been flying around
the InterNet for years!!!
Perhaps we should
all wear aluminium on our heads to keep out the "alien mind
control
lasers" from controling our brains....
------------------
RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
Received: by
msgate.apple.com with SMTP;14 Dec 1995 12:12:53 -0700
Received: from
mail02.mail.aol.com ([152.163.172.66]) by
federal-excess.apple.com
(8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA01320; Thu, 14 Dec
1995 12:16:27
-0800
From:
Whatuv@aol.com
Received: by
mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA13500; Thu, 14 Dec 1995
15:16:32 -0500
Date: Thu, 14 Dec
1995 15:16:32 -0500
Message-ID:
<951214151631_90272103@mail02.mail.aol.com>
To:
BoomShenka@aol.com, Elder#m#_Bo@msgate.apple.com, bastein@imap2.asu.edu,
creeps@pipeline.com, jgold@instinet.com,
Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com
cc:
BEAT-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu, ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com, cooling@students
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:33:37 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lauren Syrek
<hamonrye@BASIC.NET>
Subject: Politics as usual
Comments: cc:
nat2@lehigh.edu, vgarcia@goliat.ugr.es, tonninjm@PLU.edu,
kirkmoe@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu,
dada@occ4.oakton.edu, faeryfire@aol.com,
hpark4@aol.com, pks@safco.com,
jme@safco.com, amj@safco.com,
jdi@safco.com, james90s@aol.com,
bobgoss@aol.com,
heidemca@webster2.websteruniv.edu,
marytodd@uic.edu
The credit
belongs to _Mother Jones_/Alan Dundes. These jokes appear in the
Jan/Feb '96
issue.
________________________________________________________________________________
Ex-governor Jerry Brown walks into a
bar with a frog on his head.
He sits down and
orders a drink. The bartender sees the frog on his head
and asks,
"What the hell happened to you?"
The frog replies, "It all started
with a wart on my ass."
Said Mrs. Nixon to Mrs. Kennedy on the
eve of the 1960 election, "I
slept with the
future president of the United States, last night," to which
Mrs. Kennedy
responded, "That Jack will do anything for a vote."
Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, Gary Hart
and Joe Biden are on a boat.
It begins to
sink. Immediately, Jimmy Carter leaps to his feet and says,
"Save the
women and children!"
Nixon replies, "Fuck the women and
children."
Hart says, "Have we got
time?"
Biden says, "Have we got
time?"
What's the title of Gary Hart's new
book? _Six Inches Away from the
Presidency_.
Did you hear Joe Biden is writing his
memoirs? It's called _Iacocca_.
Have you heard the one about the new
Regan typewriter? It has no
memory or colon.
Ronald Regean calls OJ Simpson after
the not-guilty-verdict and
says,
"Congratulations. You must be glad this whole mess is over. When the
hullabaloo dies
down, you must really come over and have dinner with me and
Nancy."
"Why thank you, Mr.
President," OJ answers. "I'd be honored."
"Certainly," Regean replies.
"And by all means, bring Nicole."
Bill and Hillary are driving to Arkansas.
Needing gas, they pull
over. Hillary
excuses herself to the ladies' room.
After filling the tank,
Bill goes looking
for Hillary and is surprised to see her talking
animatedly with
the gas station attendant. Stunned, he watches as she gives
the attendant a
big hug and a kiss on each cheek.
"What was that all about,"
Bill asks when she returns to the car.
"Oh," explains Hillary,
" I went to high school with that guy. In
fact, I think I
dated him at one time. We were catching up on old times."
"Well," observes Bill,
"I guess if you had married him, you'd be
pumping gas
today."
"Oh no," says Hillary,
"If I married him, he'd be the president of
the United
States."
________________________________________________________________________________
Happy Holidays.
***Bite me.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:27:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: sf chronicle
On Nov. 29 Andrew
Burnett noted that a series of articles in th 11/26
San
Francisco Chronicle could be accessed at
http://www.sfgate.com/programs/waisgate. I've been unsuccessful in
finding this site
through the URL or Netscape's search engines.
I did
find the
Chronicle for the 26th but got an empty menu.
Has anyone been
able to find and
download these articles? If so, can you
offer any
advice?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:14:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: sf chronicle
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:27:37 EST from
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
On Fri, 15 Dec
1995 13:27:37 EST Bill Gargan said:
>On Nov. 29
Andrew Burnett noted that a series of articles in th 11/26
>San
Francisco Chronicle could be accessed at
>http://www.sfgate.com/programs/waisgate. I've been unsuccessful in
>finding this
site through the URL or Netscape's search engines. I did
>find the
Chronicle for the 26th but got an empty menu.
Has anyone been
>able to find
and download these articles? If so, can
you offer any
>advice?
Here's how I
found it today.
http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/index.shtml
gets you the front page,
which includes a
link to "Previous Editions."
That gets you a link
to the Sunday 26
November 1995 edition, and the Beat articles can be
found in the
"Pink" pages.
Seems to me I
found a more direct route before, but this seems the
least complicated
now.
Blaine Allan
ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:24:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Lost Generation
Please excuse my
late response as I am in the end of semester upheaval.
A few days
(weeks?) back someone mentioned the Beats and any connection to
the Lost
Generation. I just so happened to be
reading the book reviews
Dorothy Parker
(Lost generation wit and poet) wrote for _Esquire_
in the late
1950's. In her review of JK's
_Subterraneans_ she says:
"the 'how'
of the Beat Boys and Girls is of an appalling monotony. Nights
and days flow
into one. They go swoon to that music,
they get themselves
stoned on beer
(which I believe is a possibility in one's tender yeras),
they fight and
forget it, they are forever piling into rickety cars and driving
furiously to the
far-away house of some unexpecting friend, where they
establish themselves
for days. These practices, I admit, were
not unknown
on occasion to
membersof that Lost Generation you may have heard about, but
such was not
their entire way of life; there are among the Lost Generation
those who made
fairly important contributions to their times.
The Beat
Ones never have
to be anywhere , never want to go anywhere except just to
some other
place"
Now, some can
claim that Scott Fitzgerald has a better claim to be the
voice of the Lost
Generation, but Dorothy was as alcoholic and srewed
up as the best of
them (except she lived a lot longer). So
I guess her claim
here is that
since the Beats made this a way of life and the Lost Generation
didn't , they
aren't the same.
What do you
think?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:44:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mr. Congeniality"
<SIMPKINS@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: take me off the list
I am terribly
sorry to do this to all of you, but I lost the address to tak me
off the list.
Please remove me from the list. Thank You.
Love always,
Eric Simpkins
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:52:27 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lost Generation
At 02:24 PM
12/15/95 EST, you wrote:
>Please excuse
my late response as I am in the end of semester upheaval.
>
>A few days
(weeks?) back someone mentioned the Beats and any connection to
>the Lost
Generation. I just so happened to be
reading the book reviews
>Dorothy
Parker (Lost generation wit and poet) wrote for _Esquire_
>in the late
1950's. In her review of JK's
_Subterraneans_ she says:
>
>"the
'how' of the Beat Boys and Girls is of an appalling monotony. Nights
>and days flow
into one. They go swoon to that music,
they get themselves
>stoned on
beer (which I believe is a possibility in one's tender yeras),
>they fight
and forget it, they are forever piling into rickety cars and driving
>furiously to
the far-away house of some unexpecting friend, where they
>establish
themselves for days. These practices, I
admit, were not unknown
>on occasion
to membersof that Lost Generation you may have heard about, but
>such was not
their entire way of life; there are among the Lost Generation
>those who
made fairly important contributions to their times. The Beat
>Ones never
have to be anywhere , never want to go anywhere except just to
>some other
place"
>
>Now, some can
claim that Scott Fitzgerald has a better claim to be the
>voice of the
Lost Generation, but Dorothy was as alcoholic and srewed
>up as the
best of them (except she lived a lot longer).
So I guess her claim
>here is that
since the Beats made this a way of life and the Lost Generation
>didn't , they
aren't the same.
>
>What do you
think?
>
>
I think all this
generation stuff is a bunch of made up nonsense anyhow.
The comments of
Dorothy Parker here seem to be specifically addressing the
events depicted
in the Subterraneans. That the plot of
one book could be
seen to exemplyfy
the actions of an entire generation is absurd.
I remember Kurt
Vonnegut's comment about the line in Howl that said I saw
the best minds of
my generation destroyed...Vonnegut comment was that the
best minds of
that generation (which was also Vonnegut's) were in
Biochemistry
labs.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:17:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lauren Syrek
<hamonrye@BASIC.NET>
Subject: Politics as usual
If anyone is
motivated enough to pick up Mother Jones due to my jokes,
they'll see that
Gary Snyder has a little essay about the changes in
society during
the past 20 years.
I just wanted to
lighten the air. My apologies.
>This is a
list devoted to discussion of Beat authors.
Please refrain from post
>ing messages
outside this topic.
(from Bill
Gargan)
Laurie
*****Email me if
you need my address in London. I'm leaving on the 20th of
January.******
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:21:17 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lauren Syrek <hamonrye@BASIC.NET>
*************************___________________________$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"One more
thing. Unsubscribe me, please. Your lack of humor and
intellectual
stiffness is not something I appreciate. (Neither would the
authors you
study, I'm afraid.) For what it's worth, political humor,
combined with the
study of the Beat Generation/authors, is a perfect
combination. When
we talk of rebellion and angst, we're not just talking
about adolescent
males screaming at America and railing against Time
magazine. We're
talking about humor, and the freedom to mock our leaders.
What makes the
Beat authors so great is the fact that they can combine this
angst I speak of
with a their keen senses of humor. I'm sorry you don't
agree."
>This is a
list devoted to discussion of Beat authors.
Please refrain from post
>ing messages
outside this topic.
Laurie
*****Email me if
you need my address in London. I'm leaving on the 20th of
January.******
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:51:57 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: muddled thinking
In the thread
"Lineage, Gen X" someone posted the following:
"I really
think that a discussion of GenX is germane to any discussion
of the
Beats. The intellectual history of the
Postmodern is
inextricably tied
up in the value system of the revolution of the
sixties. The MTV mentality is the absurd reduction of
the anti-intellectual,
anti-university
impetus of beats like Snyder, who while he remains
one of my heroes,
was hard on formal education even though he is
extremely
learned. Some hypocrisy here, I think.
Autodidacticism
easily gives way to adidacticism. And I
am reminded of the
Beatle's
anti-capitalist songs written while their CEO hauled their
money to bank in
trucks. I am a hippie-turned-professor. My
Snyder-reading,
reefer-smoking days, delayed my education by ten
years. I teach thedrug-torpid, addled know-nothings
which the children of
my
generation have
become. I'm sure this is not what Gary
and Jack and
Allen had in
mind, but they helped make it his way.
Jack said as
much before he
died."
I agree with the
first two sentences. After that I take issue. Can you be
specific on
Snyder's "anti-intellectual, anti-university impetus?" He has
always seemed
pretty scholarly to me. He studied at Reed Colege, Indiana
University and
U.C. Berkeley, and now teaches at U.C Davis. But I think what
the Beats were
and are against is academic speak such as "autodidacticism
easily gives way
to adidacticism." Whom are you
speaking to and for when you
say things like
that?
You say Snyder
remains one of your heroes but your "Snyder-reading,
reefer-smoking
days" delayed your education. Isn't it all a continuum? Don't
you think
insights gained from Snyder, and reefer, could have led to your
later studies?
And then who are these "drug-torpid, addled know-nothings?" Do
you really
see your students that way? I think you
have more to say by way
of explanation.
What you have said so far seems muddled to me.
Best,
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:13:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Katerie Prior <kadaca@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lost Generation
In-Reply-To: Your message
<951215.143752.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> of
Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:24:24 EST
On Fri, 15 Dec
1995 14:24:24 EST, Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
wrote;
Please excuse my
late response as I am in the end of semester upheaval.
A few days
(weeks?) back someone mentioned the Beats and any connection
to
the Lost
Generation. I just so happened to be
reading the book reviews
Dorothy Parker
(Lost generation wit and poet) wrote for _Esquire_
in the late
1950's. In her review of JK's
_Subterraneans_ she says:
"the 'how'
of the Beat Boys and Girls is of an appalling monotony.
Nights
and days flow
into one. They go swoon to that music,
they get
themselves
stoned on beer
(which I believe is a possibility in one's tender
yeras),
they fight and
forget it, they are forever piling into rickety cars and
driving
furiously to the
far-away house of some unexpecting friend, where they
establish
themselves for days. These practices, I
admit, were not
unknown
on occasion to
membersof that Lost Generation you may have heard about,
but
such was not
their entire way of life; there are among the Lost
Generation
those who made
fairly important contributions to their times.
The Beat
Ones never have
to be anywhere , never want to go anywhere except just
to
some other
place"
Now, some can
claim that Scott Fitzgerald has a better claim to be the
voice of the Lost
Generation, but Dorothy was as alcoholic and srewed
up as the best of
them (except she lived a lot longer). So
I guess her
claim
here is that
since the Beats made this a way of life and the Lost
Generation
didn't , they
aren't the same.
What do you think?
In the film
"Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle," the last monologue in
the film is DP
talking about Jack and the Beats. She
tells a couple of
reporters pretty
much the same thing. Granted I've never
read anything
by Mrs. Parker
except for her poetry, but I think she distincted the
Lost Generation
from the Beat Generation as level of values.
The Beats
were
predominately working class people whereas, DP and gang hung out in
New York hotels,
tossing back martinis at speakeasys, and
having dinner
at the Round
Table in the Algonquin room with tuxedoed waiters. The
closest Beat I
think that could muster this much ambiance is Burroughs.
The rest seem to
be rebelling againist this system of just sitting and
talking. Her final criticism, that "The Beat Ones never have to be
anywhere , never
want to go anywhere except just to some other place,"
is one againist
life. As
everyone's discussed before, the Beats were
merely out to
LIVE. Parker just grew into an old and
bitter lady.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:38:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Speaking of viruses . . .
Slightly
off-topic, but compelling, nonetheless.
--------------------forwarded
message-------------------
Subj: experiment (fwd)
Date: Fri, Dec 15, 1995 7:19 PM EST
From: atkinson@woodnet.wce.wwu.edu
X-From:
atkinson@woodnet.wce.wwu.edu (Chuck Atkinson)
To:
spedtalk@virginia.edu
As spedtalkers I
thought you would be enthusiastic about helping this budding
scientist with
his experiment.
>X-POP3-Rcpt:
atkinson@woodnet
>Date: Fri, 15
Dec 1995 16:32:56 -0800
>X-Sender:
pogreba@woodnet.wce.wwu.edu
>Mime-Version:
1.0
>To:
lblack@cc.wwu.edu, atkinson@cc.wwu.edu, bkeiper@cc.wwu.edu,
> henniger@cc.wwu.edu
>From: Susan
Pogreba-Lee <pogreba@woodnet.wce.wwu.edu>
>Subject:
experiment (fwd)
>
>I don't know
but as educators you may find this experiment interesting.
>Ignore most
of the stuff and scroll down to the last part of the e-mail.
>This is
really quite amazing!!!
>
>spl
>
>>X-POP3-Rcpt:
pogreba@woodnet
>>Return-Path:
kenn@wce.wwu.edu
>>Date:
Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:43:52 -0800 (PST)
>>From:
Kenn Herman <kenn@wce.wwu.edu>
>>To: Bill
Clinton <president@whitehouse.gov>,
>> Al Gore
<vice-president@whitehouse.gov>,
>> Newt Gingrich
<georgia6@hr.house.gov>
>>Subject:
experiment (fwd)
>>
>>
>>i thought
that the three most 'powerful' men in america should have
>>'contact'
with this high school student's experiment.
it brings tangible
>>concepts
a little closer to home.
>>
>>read on
to find out...
>>
>>kenn
>>
>>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>>Date: 15
Dec 1995 10:15:26 -0800
>>From:
Herman, Heidi <hermhx1@macgwx.ghc.org>
>>To:
ATSUI@vax.clarku.edu, Barbara Eickhoff <eickhoff@u.washington.edu>,
>> "Blackwell, Justin"
<blackwell.j@ghc.org>, boombooom@aol.com,
>> Brenda Bourns
<bbourns@fred.fhcrc.org>,
>> Brian Black <a-brianb@microsoft.com>,
cait <kmacinne@is.dal.ca>,
>> ceejay <ceejay@netcom.com>, cera
<cera@helen.bush.edu>,
>> "Chapman, Janice"
<chapman@mpe11.ghc.org>, CHECKERS@u.washington.edu,
>> Chris Park <box@cnw.com>, dao-liang
chou <v-acdch@microsoft.com>,
>> eloise
<DARTNSHC.NSHP.EIGRAVES@GOV.NS.CA>,
>> "heidi b."
<hbroders@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
>> "Heileson, Thomas"
<heilts1@mpe11.ghc.org>,
>> jesaka <kisses@u.washington.edu>,
>> "Jordan, Erlande"
<jordan@mpe11.ghc.org>,
>> ken of the ONE 'n'
<kwombacher@banyan.inacom.com>,
>> "kenn (personal)"
<kenn@wce.wwu.edu>, "linda w." <howked@iea.com>,
>> loredana <madamex@teleport.com>,
>> "Moontree, Elizabeth"
<moontree@mpe11.ghc.org>, MuddlyMud@aol.com,
>> paul <ptindale@essa.com>, Rae &
Teri <kaupe@netcom.com>,
>> "Salazar, Anthony"
<salazar@mpe11.ghc.org>, stacey
<SShul90936@aol.com>,
>> terri <tereska@aol.com>,
cloyfx1@macgwx.ghc.org,
greerl2@macgwx.ghc.org,
>> knutkx2@macgwx.ghc.org,
needhx1@macgwx.ghc.org,
>> orozco#m#_dan@macgwx.ghc.org,
purdmr1@macgwx.ghc.org,
>> ruffgs1@macgwx.ghc.org, sullsx2@macgwx.ghc.org
>>Subject:
experiment (fwd)
>>
>>bear with
all the b.s. at the beginning....just scroll through and read
ppl's
>>comments
if you wish, but get to the msg. that's at the bottom to
understand
>>what 'all
this' is about...
>>__________________________________________________________________________
>>_____
>>From:
tinsky on Fri, Dec 15, 1995 09:56
>>Subject:
(Fwd) FW: Forward (fwd)...experiment (fwd)
>>To:
Herman, Heidi; JaniceH570@aol.com; Mark Ezovski (ART); Nevin Mercede
>>(ART);
James Tinsky; Andrew Maz; singingd@ix.netcom.com; ChileJack@aol.com;
>>Greg
Madison (ART)
>>
>>a
brilliant experiment...get to the end to read the experiment
>>
>>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>>Date:
Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:32:14 -0500 (EST)
>>From:
HHIERONYMUS@WELLESLEY.EDU
>>To:
DYKENET-L
>>Subject:
(Fwd) FW: Forward (fwd)...experiment
>>
>>
>>From:
Catherine Wende <cwende@post.cis.smu.edu>
>>Subject:
(Fwd) (Fwd) FW: Forward (fwd)
>>To:
POLITIDYKES
>>Precedence:
bulk
>>
>>
>>Read
through this...it took me a while to hit the impact...be sure to
>>read to
the end even though it gets long there is a point!
>>
>>Catherine
>>
>>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>>Date:
Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:52:27 CST
>>From:
Carol Luedders <CLUEDDERS@SCS.ADMIN.IASTATE.EDU>
>>To:
Multiple recipients of list LGBPSYCH <LGBPSYCH@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
>>Subject:
(Fwd) (Fwd) FW: Forward
>>
>>Please go
through to the end. This is a High
School student's very
>>interesting
and sobering way of proving a point.
>>(Now if
only those "you too could make $100,000 in three months
>> if you
sent two dollars to each person on this mailing list" things worked
>>this
>> well).
>>Carol
>>
>>-------
Forwarded Message Follows -------
>>From: "Jeanne Burkhart"
>>Organization: ISU Student Counseling Service
>>To: #SCS/COUNSELORS
>>Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:30:31 CST
>>Subject: (Fwd) FW: Forward
>>
>>Please go
through to the end.
>>
>>-------
Forwarded Message Follows -------
>>From: "Cychosz, Chuck"
<ccychos@iastate.edu>
>>To: "Safaeinili, Lisa"
<lisasaf@dops.adp.iastate.edu>,
>> "Dr. Dalen Duitsman"
<dalen@iastate.edu>,
>> "'Frank Schabel'"
<fschabel@iastate.edu>,
>> "'Jeanne Burkhart'"
<jburkhart@scs.admin.iastate.edu>,
>> Martha Norton
<MNORTON@scs.admin.iastate.edu>,
>> Susan Young
<syoung@iastate.edu>
>>Subject: FW: Forward
>>Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 10:25:00 CST
>>
----------
>>From:
Robinson, Patricia
>>To:
Cychosz, Chuck
>>Subject:
FW: Forward
>>Date:
Tuesday, December 12, 1995 10:00AM
>>
>>Read all
the way to the bottom--an interesting way of proving a point!
>>
----------
>>From:
Uhlenhake, Bev
>>To:
Bessette, Jeanine; Rice, Dan; Whalen, Don; Kasi, Balsy; Andrew, Joelle;
>>Simpson,
Jackie; Spahn, Joan; Bolluyt, Kat; JohnsonWilloughby, Kay-lynne;
>>Korte,
Mary; Ellis-Besancon, Kerry; Tandia, Mary; Englin, Pete; Robinson,
>>Patricia;
Johnson, Ruth; Deters, Sally; Akey, Torin; Smith, Victor; Arthur,
>>Virginia;
Gruenewald, Doug; 'phil maggard'; udasenate
>>Subject:
FW: Forward
>>Date:
Tuesday, December 12, 1995 9:33AM
>>
>>sorry the
computer gibberish is so long... please
read.
>>
----------
>>From:
Marva K Ruther
>>To:
afenton; mtgallet; x1rankin; dlburri; lsusie; joce; carwes; bevu;
>>aryder;
tcolen; kearnest; georjean; mapurdy; sschweit; msutton; tamscheu
>>Subject:
Forward
>>Date:
Tuesday, December 12, 1995 9:10AM
>>
>>The
following was forwarded to me with a request to forward it on. Please
>>read
through the computer stuff and read the end message.
>>
>> -------
Forwarded Message
>>
>>To:
joppedal@iastate.edu, aschultz@iastate.edu, sweety@iastate.edu,
>> coolman@iastate.edu,
mruther@iastate.edu,
>>SCHULTES@SAL311.WALDORF.EDU,
SKAARJ@SAL311.WALDORF.EDU, ljass@iastate.edu
>>Subject:
aids
>>Date:
Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:05:15 CST
>>From:
Heidi L Weiland <hweiland@iastate.edu>
>>
>> -------
Forwarded Message
>>
>>To: BARNETT@AC.GRIN.EDU,
hweiland@iastate.edu, OLIVES2924@uni.edu,
>> jacobson@mmc.mtmercy.edu,
bsuck@iastate.edu, tmace@iastate.edu,
>> drumisu@iastate.edu,
cgates@iastate.edu, dlynne@iastate.edu,
>> cadypack@IMAP2.ASU.EDU, VANPATTEB@SAL311.WALDORF.EDU,
>> jjl11@cornell.edu, kermitj@iastate.edu,
sbodeen@iastate.edu
>>Subject:
n
>>Date:
Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:19:09 CST
>>From:
Jamie D Redman <jredman@iastate.edu>
>>
>> -------
Forwarded Message
>>Resent-from:
"Holtan, Jason O" <HOLTANJ@SAL311.WALDORF.EDU>
>>Resent-to:
PFanous@iastate.edu, HoltanA@MSOE.EDU,
>> Holtan@sendit.sendit.NODAK.edu,
Kirkpatr@email.cc.purdue.edu,
>> TMenzel@iastate.edu,
KMiller@iastate.edu,
>>Barrett_Randall@Baylor.edu,
>> JRedman@iastate.edu,
ahreis@students.wisc.edu (Anne Reis),
>> DSqui279@aol.com,
BaileyJ@SAL311.WALDORF.EDU,
>>
"SAL311/DURRS"@insosf1.netins.net,
>>"THOR/EICKHOFFA"@insosf1.netins.net,
>> ellisj@thor.waldorf.edu
>>Resent-date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:33:54 -0600
>>Sender:
rleighb@pop
>>Date:
Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:18:48 -0500
>>To:
harri_ma@students.uwlax.edu, bad@maclaw.law.cuny.edu, jolly@stolaf.edu,
>> rebecca-chacko@uiowa.edu,
CDark@comp.UArk.edu,
>>df0012@acad.drake.edu,
>> schafer@stolaf.edu, bennettj@central.edu,
>>holtanj@SAL311.WALDORF.EDU,
>> scraig@iastate.edu,
cgelina@iastate.edu, skaurs@iastate.edu,
>> jlathrop@iastate.edu,
harri_ma@students.uwlax.edu,
jolly@stolaf.edu,
>> kplace@iastate.edu,
rebecca-chacko@uiowa.edu
>>From:
rleighb@iastate.edu
>>Subject:
not that i want all of you to have this, but have fun infecting
>>people ;)
>>
>>hey, hope
all who have finals are studying like the wind, and all those yet
>>to suffer
start building pain resistance now.
please follow this forward,
>>it proves
a very scary, but true point in a nonfatal way.
maybe we can all
>>learn
from it. so please pass it on and don't
delete!
>>love ya
lots, robyn
>>
>>>Sender:
tkoopman@pop-3.iastate.edu
>>>Date:
Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:51:19 -0600
>>>To:
jdt@iastate.edu, mfalk@iastate.edu, rgonsior@iastate.edu,
>>bhogendo@iastate.edu,
dkiefer@iastate.edu, mmoss@iastate.edu,
>>htakade@iastate.edu,
debbie@iastate.edu, ebilotta@iastate.edu,
>>cbatey@iastate.edu,
miranda@iastate.edu, jacobmcc@iastate.edu, k
>>>From:
tkoopman@iastate.edu
>>>Subject:
not that i want all of you to have this, but have fun infecting
>>people ;)
>>>
>>>>From:
JS0103@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
>>>>Date:
Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:55:06 -0500 (CDT)
>>>>Subject:
not that i want all of you to have this, but have fun infecting
>>people ;)
>>>>To:
pb0027@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, tkoopman@iastate.edu, dvampire@iastate.edu,
>>richlieu@iastate.edu,
javelin@iastate.edu
>>>>Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:03:53 CDT
>>>>From:
"N.I. Johnson" <NIJ001%ACAD@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
>>>>Subject:
this was sent to me...
>>>>
>>>>From:
IN%"JLT009@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU"
9-DEC-1995 21:38:58.91
>>>>To: IN%"tab002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
IN%"bab028@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
>>IN%"efh002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
IN%"jrb006@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
>>IN%"blf001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
IN%"btk003@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
>>IN%"cdb005@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
IN%"klb026@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
>>IN%"cjw008@ACAD.DRAKE.
>>>>CC:
>>>>Subj:
AIDS project
>>>>
>>>>Date:
Sat, 09 Dec 1995 21:38:31 -0500 (CDT)
>>>>From:
JLT009@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
>>>>Subject:
AIDS project
>>>>To:
tab002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, bab028@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, efh002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
jrb006@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, blf001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, btk003@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
cdb005@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, klb026@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, cjw008@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
mjh030@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, kmb012@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, def003@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
mma004@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, cmj005@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, ams026@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
arw003@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, fam003@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, mrd002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
nij001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, jlt009@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, jms047@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
nrj001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, alc011@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, dd0028@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
jg0044@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, ca0009@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, gsw001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
jmh037@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, jlh039@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, kes007@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU,
>>>>
kce003@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, gh0010@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
>>>>Date:
Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:16:30 CDT
>>>>From:
JWS006%ACAD@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
>>>>Subject:
aids forwarded
>>>>To:
TLB013@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
>>>>
>>>>From:
IN%"lferris@indiana.edu"
"laura elizabeth ferris"
7-DEC-1995
>>17:51:04.38
>>>>To: IN%"gollan@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu",
IN%"mgranado@ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu",
>>IN%"JWS006@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU",
IN%"mariegeo@aol.com", IN%"jbpettit@indiana",
>>IN%"jmessmer@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu",
IN%"jaimee@falcon.cc.ukans.edu",
>>IN%"n-kuhn@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu",
IN
>>>>CC:
>>>>Subj:
aids (fwd)
>>>>
>>
>>>>Date:
Thu, 07 Dec 1995 18:50:56 -0500 (EST)
>>>>From:
laura elizabeth ferris <lferris@indiana.edu>
>>>>Subject:
aids (fwd)
>>>>X-Sender:
lferris@ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu
>>>>To:
gollan@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu, mgranado@ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu,
>>>>
JWS006@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU, mariegeo@aol.com, jbpettit@indiana,
>>>>
jmessmer@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu, jaimee@falcon.cc.ukans.edu,
>>>>
n-kuhn@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu, ann elizabeth mellish <u27541@uicvm.uic.edu>
>>
>>>>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>>>>Date:
Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:43:02 -0500 (EST)
>>>>From:
jenna catherine murphy <jcmurphy@indiana.edu>
>>>>Cc:
lferris@ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu
>>>>Subject:
aids (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>This
is from one of my HS friends in Connecticut, so pass it to everyone
>>>>you
know!
>>>>
>>>>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>>>>Date:
Thu, 7 Dec 95 16:45:24 EWT
>>>>From:
KEESLER <bekessle@mailbox.syr.edu>
>>>>To:
jcmurphy@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu
>>>>Subject:
aids
>>>>
>>>>For
a class project, I was wondering if this could be passed on to prove
>>>>a
point. In my human sex class, we learned
that if someone has received
>>>>the
HIV disease, and they don't know about it, they could pass it on to
>>>>people
who they don't even know.
>>>> Could you all pretend that I have HIV,
and I gave it to you.
>>>>Then
could you pass it on to your friends?
Let's see if the entire
>>>>e-mail
population could get infected by me alone.
>>>> Please remember that this is a lab
experiment. I have to say
>>>>that
I am not intending to offend any one in any way.
>>>> By the way, don't erase this or the
forwards from your computer.
>>>>
>>>>
Thankyou
>>>>Young
bradley
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:31:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill
Lawlor <wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
Subject: beat jokes beaten down
This is just to
say
that I have read
the jokes
that you posted
on BEAT-L
and I have
laughed at them
They were so cool
so sweet
yes
they were beat
too bad someone
said
they didn't fit
in this ice box
on the internet
Bill (William)
not WCW
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:07:29 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Forwarded mail....
Comments: To:
derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec
1995 12:03:54 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: phil-lit
<phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
Cc: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
politically correct xmas
saint klaus, nicklaus = niko-leos
("conqueror of the people") in greek
st. close (inner sanctum, instant sanka) =
st. claws
plastered against sky on insect-antennaed rooftops
across Am-ri-ka
pussy-footed fat honky in rubber boots
descends smokeless chimneys
while tiny pink cocks poke forth timid heads
from stocking tops
and high-voltage-pulsing green tree opens
budding cones to infinity
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 00:31:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott Weintraub
<scottw@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: What to do in Lowell?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.951219120715.10246F-100000@sun3>
My friends and I
are going on a little road-trip over Christmas break.
Our main stop is
going to be Lowell where we all wanted to check out
Kerouac's
grave. I know a few of you have been to
Lowell (The Kerouac
Convention, etc.)
so could you tell me, exactly, where Jack's grave is
and are there any
other Kerouac-related sites that we should see while
we're there?
*****************************************************************************
* Scott Weintraub -
scottw@wam.umd.edu - College Park, Maryland *
*****************************************************************************
* "The bounties of space, of infinite
outwardness, were three: empty *
* heroics, low comedy, and pointless
death." -Kurt Vonnegut *
*****************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:53:52 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: ghosts of kerouac and ginsberg spotted
Comments: cc:
jesse fleming <fleming@mail.tku.edu.tw>
The "ONE
WAY" to experience NYC, MAN: late (2-4 am) wandering around Times
Square--Greyound
Bus Station area, taking in the mildly violent vibes and
talking to
whichever black prostitutes want to talk (I did this during my
1 golden month
back in the "land of the free" in august, by the way)
about how things
have "gotten much more tense and violent" in this area
of nyc, late at night.....(but
only talking, of course), and only THEN
hitting one of
those amazing pulsating-with-energy late-nite bars where
men/women and
black/white/jewish/whatever talk and laugh with wondrous
freedom and
openness and the vibes are (after all) very good indeed.....
(as only then has
one, in a sense, earned this pavlovian reward)....
fws
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:14:58 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Generational Cycles
In-Reply-To:
<951126222753_34875820@emout05.mail.aol.com>
ok, thanks--esp.
for clarification of the "x which marks the spot." fws
On Sun, 26 Nov
1995, Rita T. Friedman wrote:
> >>ok,
i see...if the front end of boomers was (being born in) '45 or so,
> when was the
back end? (also, what does the "x"
in "generation x" mean?)
> fws, taipei
> >>
>
> the end of
the "boomers" generation, as I understand it, is just like any of
> the
parameters of "generation x."
That is to say, no-one bothered to define
> it
well. Boomers had hippies, so figure therefore
anyone who had a child
> after the
hippy-era isn't a boomer.
> Generation X
is becoming an extinict term. I recently
went to a debate
> entitled
"generation X's Apathy Is Ruining America" where everyone there felt
> against that
statement and it was cancelled. The X is
supposed to signify
> the lack of
identity, the non-committed to a cause, the un-whatevered-ness of
> it all.
> I thought
that at one point there was an actual defining age of generation X,
> but it seems
that people either adjust the borders to BE A PART OF It or to
> be TOTALLY
EXCLUDED FROM IT.
> Anyway, the
Coupland book was wonderful.
> ;-/
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:07:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: sf chronical--thanks
Thanks to
everyone who responded to my request for help on the San Francisco Ch
ronicle articles
on the Beats. Mission accomplished!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:43:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ghosts of kerouac and ginsberg
spotted
One landmark of
(rapidly changing) Times Square from the late fourties is the
Howard Johnsons
(a disappearing breed) (around Broadway and 44th) where Edie
Parker met Jack
and ate six hot dogs. Times Square still
has a seedy,
slightly scarey,
some might say "beat" feel but I find the East Villege and
Alphabet city a
lot more interesting these days. I'd say
that the ghosts
have migrated to,
say, St. Marks Place at Ave. B. For the
record, St. Marks
Place has also
been kinda cleaned up from a few years ago, as has Tompkins
Square Park.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:41:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Whatuv@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!...
Comments: To:
Elder#m#_Bo@msgate.apple.com, bastein@imap2.asu.edu,
BoomShenka@aol.com,
creeps@pipeline.com, jgold@instinet.com,
Ganyard#m#_Joye@msgate.apple.com
Comments: cc:
cooling@students.BITNET, ZMDJ65A@prodigy.com
Ha!
an obvious
attempt to bait me, well it won't work!
or, perhaps it
already has....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 20:21:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Christmas with Kerouac
Although I'm well
into my reading of _On the Road_ I don't
think it's the
right time for a
long-winded serious analysis of the
postmodern/revolutionary/existentialist
implications of this and other Beat
texts. Rather, I offer another approach --
partically in response to the
recent (and I
guess absent) poster who bemoaned the self-seriousness of the
list. I offer it with no apologies to JK nor to
anyone else but to say that
imitation is the
highest form of flattery and that satire is the highest --
perhaps lowest --
form of imitation.
Christmas with
Kerouac: On The Road to Bankruptcy
We rolled outa
the Volvo all raggedy like and itchy from the
leather seats --
it was a real gone and sad Volvo, one of the
front heater
seats was barely working and the speakers had a real
ethereal,
far-away quality about them like two mad, gone monks
humming some wild
surreal tune to one another on some mountain
road in some
other time zone where people don't floss their teeth
or might not even
brush. We ambled all melancholy and
flatulent
from the Volvo to
the entrance of the mall -- I swear it was the
wildest mall
entrance I'd ever seen in all my days -- it had
automatic doors
that opened and closed, opened and closed, opened
and closed and we
jumped on and off the little rubber mat causing
the doors to open
and close, open and close, open and close -- it
was wild, and
incredible and somehow sad. When we
finally got
into the mall and
into the flow of all the crazed shoppers with
visions and
decisions, higgilly-biggilly here, there, and
everywhere in
some lunatic rush and binge like the pioneers in
their
conasomethingorother wagons bursting forth upon the
continent,
flowing out and about around and down, bouncing
banging,
head-clanging, belly-wangling, caterwauling and
cavetching in
some Holy arbitrary labyrinth of confusion,
congestion and
general mayhem. Then I saw the wildest
dudes I
have ever seen in
my life -- in their large, EXTREMELY large
pants. I mean these pants were BIG. A family of Mexican grape
pickers could
live in these pants -- and did. I said
to myself
these big, wild
pants are so American, so wild and free -- they
were big freedom
pants billowing with mad free souls, sailing
pants filled with
the wind of broken dreams or dreams that broke
wind in the wild,
incredibly big-panted life. We followed
the
dudes into the
crowds of touristas clutching their pocket books
and children like
great, fat, sweaty, bloated, bourgeois
shoppers, which
of course they were. We were moving
among them
like manic,
abstract ghost crabs weaving wild and intricate
patterns across
the faux marble floors. When suddenly we
came
upon the most
gone and wild and sad Santa I swear I had ever seen
before or
since. His laugh was the most soulful
and lugubrious
instrument of
pain to have ever sprung itself on this mad vortex
of stars and
circumstance I like to call life. I sat
on his lap
-- tears
streaming down my cheeks and he looked into my eyes and
said something so
deep and real like -- son you're cutting off
the circulation
to my legs -- that I cried even more.
And then
suddenly we were
off again caught up in the great flow of
humanity, the
great ebb tide of human consumption and
constipation. We found ourselves inside a great store. A great,
wonderful
American store that held all my futures -- all my
dreams in one
great and good merchandizing extravaganza.
I felt
like a
homeward-looking angel: furtive and drunk with possibility
in this
materialistic Mecca. Quite suddenly I
looked up and saw
her -- she was
dressed as an elf with curling little shoes and
belled toes and
all -- I followed her like the mad-sad puppy-soul
that I am --
followed to her place of work -- a body piercing
parlor. She was half Mexican/ half Irish with one
green eye, one
brown. She was a wild walking advertisement for body
piercing:
pierced ears,
pierced nose, pierced tongue, pierced navel,
pierced nipples,
pierced pancreas, pierced cerebellum,
pierced
soul -- I loved
her immediate and deep. After three
hours of
wild conversation
over cappucino we had ourselves surgically
connected with
one great body ring the size of a hula-hoop. We
moved like we
were in a perpetual sack race -- life's great
perpetual sack
race, hopping and sweating and stumbling and
giggling all over
the place in a mad rush for the finish line of
love. And I loved her with all my soul -- ol'
what's-her-name.
When we went our
own ways I was hurt deeply -- I mean REALLY hurt
-- I awoke in an
alien hospital bed several days later not
knowing who I
was, or even what species I was -- that's how
alienated and
beat I felt -- not knowing what species I was I
tried wearing the
bed pan as a hat -- the used bed pan -- then I
could have kicked
myself I was so wet and ridiculous lying in
that hospital bed
like a crazy, gone, mad paramecium in somebody's
petri dish. Then
I looked up in the moment of my greatest despair
and who should be
there but that same gone Santa from before --
the same bearded
Buddha soul that was my salvation and I called
out to him -- Hey
bearded Buddha man! Hey great red mantra-man!
and he turned and
I swear this is true -- he blew the greatest
sad and mournful
riffs I have ever heard then or since from a sax
he had in his big
red sack -- it was a sad sack sax and he blew
it to the max,
and I heard him exclaim as he blew out o' sight --
Merry X-Mas to
all and to all a gone night!
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO
ONE AND ALL
Perry M.
Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:46:34 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Christmas with Kerouac
>We rolled
outa the Volvo all raggedy like and itchy from the
>leather seats
-- it was a real gone and sad Volvo, one of the
>front heater
seats was barely working and the speakers had a real
>ethereal,
far-away quality about them like two mad, gone monks
>humming some
wild surreal tune to one another on some mountain
>road in some
other time zone where people don't floss their teeth
>or might not
even brush. We ambled all melancholy and
flatulent
>from the
Volvo to the entrance of the mall -- I swear it was the
>wildest mall
entrance I'd ever seen in all my days -- it had
>automatic
doors that opened and closed, opened and closed, opened
>and closed
and we jumped on and off the little rubber mat causing
>the doors to
open and close, open and close, open and close -- it
>was wild, and
incredible and somehow sad. When we
finally got
>into the mall
and into the flow of all the crazed shoppers with
>visions and
decisions, higgilly-biggilly here, there, and
>everywhere in
some lunatic rush and binge like the pioneers in
>their
conasomethingorother wagons bursting forth upon the
>continent,
flowing out and about around and down, bouncing
>banging,
head-clanging, belly-wangling, caterwauling and
>cavetching in
some Holy arbitrary labyrinth of confusion,
>congestion
and general mayhem. Then I saw the
wildest dudes I
>have ever
seen in my life -- in their large, EXTREMELY large
>pants. I mean these pants were BIG. A family of Mexican grape
>pickers could
live in these pants -- and did. I said
to myself
>these big,
wild pants are so American, so wild and free -- they
>were big
freedom pants billowing with mad free souls, sailing
>pants filled
with the wind of broken dreams or dreams that broke
>wind in the
wild, incredibly big-panted life. We
followed the
>dudes into
the crowds of touristas clutching their pocket books
>and children
like great, fat, sweaty, bloated, bourgeois
>shoppers,
which of course they were. We were moving
among them
>like manic,
abstract ghost crabs weaving wild and intricate
>patterns
across the faux marble floors. When
suddenly we came
>upon the most
gone and wild and sad Santa I swear I had ever seen
>before or
since. His laugh was the most soulful
and lugubrious
>instrument of
pain to have ever sprung itself on this mad vortex
>of stars and
circumstance I like to call life. I sat
on his lap
>-- tears
streaming down my cheeks and he looked into my eyes and
>said
something so deep and real like -- son you're cutting off
>the
circulation to my legs -- that I cried even more. And then
>suddenly we
were off again caught up in the great flow of
>humanity, the
great ebb tide of human consumption and
>constipation. We found ourselves inside a great store. A great,
>wonderful
American store that held all my futures -- all my
>dreams in one
great and good merchandizing extravaganza.
I felt
>like a
homeward-looking angel: furtive and drunk with possibility
>in this
materialistic Mecca. Quite suddenly I
looked up and saw
>her -- she
was dressed as an elf with curling little shoes and
>belled toes
and all -- I followed her like the mad-sad puppy-soul
>that I am --
followed to her place of work -- a body piercing
>parlor. She was half Mexican/ half Irish with one
green eye, one
>brown. She was a wild walking advertisement for body
piercing:
>pierced ears,
pierced nose, pierced tongue, pierced navel,
>pierced
nipples, pierced pancreas, pierced cerebellum,
pierced
>soul -- I
loved her immediate and deep. After
three hours of
>wild
conversation over cappucino we had ourselves surgically
>connected
with one great body ring the size of a hula-hoop. We
>moved like we
were in a perpetual sack race -- life's great
>perpetual
sack race, hopping and sweating and stumbling and
>giggling all
over the place in a mad rush for the finish line of
>love. And I loved her with all my soul -- ol'
what's-her-name.
>When we went
our own ways I was hurt deeply -- I mean REALLY hurt
>-- I awoke in
an alien hospital bed several days later not
>knowing who I
was, or even what species I was -- that's how
>alienated and
beat I felt -- not knowing what species I was I
>tried wearing
the bed pan as a hat -- the used bed pan -- then I
>could have
kicked myself I was so wet and ridiculous lying in
>that hospital
bed like a crazy, gone, mad paramecium in somebody's
>petri dish.
Then I looked up in the moment of my greatest despair
>and who
should be there but that same gone Santa from before --
>the same
bearded Buddha soul that was my salvation and I called
>out to him --
Hey bearded Buddha man! Hey great red mantra-man!
>and he turned
and I swear this is true -- he blew the greatest
>sad and
mournful riffs I have ever heard then or since from a sax
>he had in his
big red sack -- it was a sad sack sax and he blew
>it to the
max, and I heard him exclaim as he blew out o' sight --
>Merry X-Mas
to all and to all a gone night!
>
>HAPPY
HOLIDAYS TO ONE AND ALL
>
>Perry M.
Lindstrom
>
>
That's so funny
because the same thing happened to me yesterday.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 18:00:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Christmas with Kerouac
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>HAPPY
HOLIDAYS TO ONE AND ALL
>
>Perry M.
Lindstrom
Sorry not to be
ABLE to ask this personally, but I have a journal
that I keep on my
internet coffeehouse that amuses people with
good conversation
once in a while. Would it be acceptable to
use this? It's
small and only read by a few hundred every day,
so the traffic
isn't quite the internet-ted capacity of, oh, say Yahoo.
Mail me
personally so that I don't get marked for off-posting.
Thanks, Critter
[Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM]
ps.
Corduroy's
Coffeehouse <http://metro.turnpike.net/C/Critter/index.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:59:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher C. Hayes"
<risny@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Beats&Xers
Recently Frank
Stevenson wrote:
"The X is
supposed to signify the lack of identity, the non-commited to a
cause, the
un-whatevered-ness of it all."
The intersection
of the Beats with generation X is an interesting one.
Both
sub-generations were demographically challenged -- I was born in 73,
which I believe had
one of the lowest birth rates in this century.
Each
group has of
course experienced it's own type of socialization, thus one
must be careful
with the creation of analogizes. With
that warning said
and heeded, I
feel comfortable in saying that each groups lack of influence
-- during their
own time most of the beats were ridiculed by the power
elite -- steams
from there lack of size.
The Beats used
the boomer generation as a sounding board to vent there
frustration over
their society. The Hippies took some of
the beats ideas,
mostly the
bacchanal, and put them into a mass culture.
When the Hippies'
generation did
make news, wether it be though demonstrations or getting
jobs in the
media, they carried their own audience,
in fact the
constituted their
own audience. Thus the idea of the
beats, presented by
the powerless
beats, got little attention; but, when the larger
sub-generation
that followed the beats, expressed beat ideas, they got
attention.
I feel as though
the beats realized that their influence on society, in
there own time,
was going to be small. Woody Allen and
others comics, as
well as other
media, of the time did poke fun at them in forums like the
SId Ceaser
show. It was is ridicule, for lack of a
better word, that
reinforced the
feelings of alienation which was an engine for their work.
Generation X,
which is also wedged in between two
large generations, one
of which happens
to be the Hippies again, also has these feelings of
powerlessness. Will us Xers be able to use those feelings of
alienation to
create, as the
beats did, or will we buy the apathetic label?
The worst
possible out come
would be Xers recreating, as the Hippies did, the Beat
generation. That is not to say that I can't enjoy what
the beats have
given us, I just
would like to get beyond them.
Damien Zillas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:43:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tsaelinah
<serajani@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: Christmas with Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<951219202135_94841096@emout04.mail.aol.com>
On Tue, 19 Dec
1995, Perry Lindstrom wrote:
Might i just say
one word....
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Argh, that was
great. Happy xmas to you too. =)
Tsaelinah
(in a jar)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 13:33:41 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: ghosts of kerouac and ginsberg
spotted
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
In-Reply-To:
<951219154339_94607954@emout06.mail.aol.com>
Of course, any of us would more likely
associate Greenwich or East
Village or
generally lower Manhattan with the beats--though K and G were
also at Columbia,
and G talks about his Blake "vision" in a Harlem apt.
in 1949 or
so--rather than Times Square, that haven of seediness, cheap
commercialization,
prostitutes and TOURISTOS. I just was thinking that for
this very reason
it also catches something of G's "Molloch" and his self-
parodic mode in
"Howl." fws
On Tue, 19 Dec
1995, Howard Park wrote:
> One landmark
of (rapidly changing) Times Square from the late fourties is the
> Howard
Johnsons (a disappearing breed) (around Broadway and 44th) where Edie
> Parker met
Jack and ate six hot dogs. Times Square
still has a seedy,
> slightly
scarey, some might say "beat" feel but I find the East Villege and
> Alphabet
city a lot more interesting these days.
I'd say that the ghosts
> have
migrated to, say, St. Marks Place at Ave. B.
For the record, St. Marks
> Place has
also been kinda cleaned up from a few years ago, as has Tompkins
> Square Park.
>
> Howard Park
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:15:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: ghosts of kerouac and ginsberg
spotted
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>The "ONE
WAY" to experience NYC, MAN: late (2-4 am) wandering around Times
>Square--Greyound
Bus Station area, taking in the mildly violent vibes and
>talking to
whichever black prostitutes want to talk (I did this during my
>1 golden
month back in the "land of the free" in august, by the way)
>about how
things have "gotten much more tense and violent" in this area
>of nyc, late
at night.....(but only talking, of course), and only THEN
>hitting one
of those amazing pulsating-with-energy late-nite bars where
>men/women and
black/white/jewish/whatever talk and laugh with wondrous
>freedom and
openness and the vibes are (after all) very good indeed.....
>(as only then
has one, in a sense, earned this pavlovian reward)....
>
> fws
Was it simply me
or did this seem amazingly poetic? With a little reworking
on the format I'd
say you've got a hard poem here..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 18:43:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: ccook <ccook@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Hello?
I've not recieved
anything from this list in weeks and am wondering if I
somehow got
unsubscribed......Sorry if this is unnecesary clutter in
anyone's mailbox.
Chuck C
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:22:02 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hello?
>I've not
recieved anything from this list in weeks and am wondering if I
>somehow got
unsubscribed......Sorry if this is unnecesary clutter in
>anyone's
mailbox.
>
>Chuck C
It has been low
volume. The same thought crossed my
mind.
If you get this,
you are not unsubscribed.
I appreciate the
low volume in a way.
Here is a
note. I put up two new sounds of kerouac
reading a while ago. I
don't think i
announced this here. The new sounds are
Kerouac singing and
kerouac reading
from Neal and the Three Stooges. They
are .au files
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
And
Anyone see the
Jack Kerouac CD Romnibus in stores???? I
haven't.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:44:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: ???
Anybody there?
Has the list died? Email me directly.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 07:58:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Arno Selhorst
<uzs405@IBM.RHRZ.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: ???
At 00:44
29.12.1995 -0500, you wrote:
>Anybody
there? Has the list died? Email me directly.
Hi,
I don=B4t think
the list died, it=B4s just that everyone is either on=
vacation
over the year or
visiting friends and family.
BTW, Timothy, I
downloaded some of your Kerouac files. Thx a lot for putting
up the URL for us
here on the list!=20
A happy new year
to all of you...
Arno Selhorst,
Germany, Bonn
KaeseKaeseundnochmalKaese!!!
=3D)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 08:11:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Simakowicz
<Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ???
Actually...
we're alive and
well and spending time in reading and contemplation..
I'ts Xmas break;
who feels like getting into a discourse? I'd rather drink
beer and rent a
good flick for now.
Peace,love, and
Bobby Sherman,
Gene
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 10:30:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dixie Parsons <Pugsinc@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ???
I've just
subscribed to this list, but I've gotten all of this mail, so it
must be active...
be talking to you all later.
Mic
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 01:01:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ???
Only mail I'm
getting are the queries about the list; did get some pieces
about a week ago.
Assumed everyone was doing holiday things as the traffic
dropped off
abruptly right around Xmas.
I think the heavy
volume in the past month, very spirited discussions, etc.
may make the
current hiatus seem more bizarre than might otherwise be the
case.
Luther Jett
P.S. Happy New
Year to all!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 07:59:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Debra Keith <SEDHIRA@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello?
Kerouac Romnibus
is available from Water Row Books for $49.95.
E-mail
Waterrow@AOL.com
Snail mail PO Box
438, Sudbury MA 01776
Phone
508-485-8515
Great catalogue
available for the asking!
Debbie Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:51:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill
Lawlor <wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
Subject: beat jokes beaten down
I have heard
about and read a little about the current exhibit at the
Whitney Museum in
New York. Has this exhibit been
discussed by fellows
on the net? What is of particular interest? What special performances
have been
included, who has seen them, and what reports can be given?
I've ordered the
catalog from the museum and have a standing order for
the CD-ROM. I hope that I have made the right choice in
getting these
items. I would like to fly into New York and see the
actual exhibit, but
time and $ weigh
on my mind and wallet, making me choose the lest costly,
more ordinary
alternatives.
So let me
know. Who has seen the show? Whither goest thou, Whitney, in thy
shiny black car
in the night?
Bill of the North
Woods
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 20:16:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Birth of the Beat Generation
Today's
Washington Post carries a very favourable review of a new book, "The
Birth of the Beat
Generation: Visionaries, Rebels, and Hipsters 1844-1960",
by Steven Watson
(Pantheon). I quote, in part, from the review:
"An elegant
coffee-table book, 'The Birth of the Beat Generation' juxtaposes
arresting,
seldom-seen photographs with a lively, engaging, bare-bones
narrative. It
also juxtaposes maps both geographic and interrelational with
assorted
marginalia: quips, booklists and beat argot. . . . Not since
Lawrence Lipson's
'Holy Barbarians' of 1959 has there been a book of the Beat
experience whole,
even though various biographies have in varying degree
mined the
details. . . . Oddly, what is wanting, a true assessment, does not
diminish this
book's achievement . . . ."
So, has anyone
seen the book? How accurate is the reviewer's assessment?
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 11:37:24 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
In-Reply-To:
<951231201656_81734192@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "W. Luther
Jett" at Dec 31, 95 08:16:56
pm
> Today's
Washington Post carries a very favourable review of a new book, "The
> Birth of the
Beat Generation: Visionaries, Rebels, and Hipsters 1844-1960",
> by Steven
Watson (Pantheon). I quote, in part, from the review:
>
> "An
elegant coffee-table book, 'The Birth of the Beat Generation' juxtaposes
> arresting,
seldom-seen photographs with a lively, engaging, bare-bones
> narrative.
It also juxtaposes maps both geographic and interrelational with
> assorted
marginalia: quips, booklists and beat argot. . . . Not since
> Lawrence
Lipson's 'Holy Barbarians' of 1959 has there been a book of the Beat
> experience
whole, even though various biographies have in varying degree
> mined the
details. . . . Oddly, what is wanting, a true assessment, does not
> diminish
this book's achievement . . . ."
>
> So, has
anyone seen the book? How accurate is the reviewer's assessment?
I pretty much
agree. The book is very nicely designed
and has a lot of
illustrations. The text seems accurate. More of a sense of spontaneity and
random
connections than in other, more traditional books of this type.
One thing I
haven't seen yet is Voyager's new Beat Experience CD-Rom, or
whatever it's
called. Not the Kerouac one (from
Viking) but the one that
ties into the
Whitney exhibit (I think). Any reports
on it?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Some people like to go
out dancing,
but other people like us, they
gotta work
And there's even some evil
mothers
who'll tell you life is just made out of
dirt
That women never really
faint
that villains always blink
their eyes
That children are the only ones
who blush
and that life is just a
dive"
-- Velvet
Underground, "Sweet Jane"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:41:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
The reviewer,
Regina Weinreich, is a real beat fan and author of "The
Spontanious Prose
of Jack Kerouac", so it's not surprising that she wrote a
favorable review
of the "Brith of the Beat Generation." I don't mean to
discount it. It's an excellent book. Part group biography, part scrapbook.
It's more than a "coffeetable book".
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:41:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Whitney Show
I wrote a sort of
review of thw Whitney show awhile back.
I enjoyed and was
captivated by it,
but I don't think I would make a special trip to New York
for it
alone. It will travel to Minneapolis and
San Francisco later this
year. The highlight of the show for me was the
original rolled up manuscript
of On The Road
and the Dharma Bums.
H. Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 12:08:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 30 Dec 1995 to 31 Dec
1995
Have just got
back from a week in NYC with 2500 philosophers, and got to see
the Whitney
exhibit. For me, there was some great stuff there - a lot of
JK's original
artwork, the teletype roll of OTR, a bunch of his notebooks,
sketchpads etc,
and a lot of photos of NYC and Beats around there, including
quite a few I'd
never seen in books. I can see why the art critics were down
on the exhibit
though, because the link between the big pieces on display
and the Beats
seemed tentative to say the least, i.e. the Jackson Pollock
painting and some
of the other art - nice stuff in its own right (most of
it) but out of
kilter with the rest of the exhibit. Still, there was so much
of the real thing
there I didn't mind. A most interesting video on show
(plus for sale, a
copy of which I got) with all sorts of
JK/Ginsberg/Burroughs
clips, weird art montages and some really cool jazz
from the period
with Miles and Coltrane and so on. And a great audio track
which you could
listen to at the exhibit (but I couldn't see for sale) with
readings, jazz,
etc.
So I think you
have to be a True Fan, but then I guess most all of us on
this list are ...
it was well worth the trip and the $$$ to see the artefacts.
N W-W
>
>I have heard
about and read a little about the current exhibit at the
>Whitney
Museum in New York. Has this exhibit
been discussed by fellows
>on the net? What is of particular interest? What special performances
>have been
included, who has seen them, and what reports can be given?
>
>I've ordered
the catalog from the museum and have a standing order for
>the
CD-ROM. I hope that I have made the right
choice in getting these
>items. I would like to fly into New York and see the
actual exhibit, but
>time and $
weigh on my mind and wallet, making me choose the lest costly,
>more ordinary
alternatives.
>
>So let me
know. Who has seen the show? Whither goest thou, Whitney, in thy
>shiny black
car in the night?
>
>
>
>
>
>Bill of the
North Woods
>
>------------------------------
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:56:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
>The reviewer,
Regina Weinreich, is a real beat fan and author of "The
>Spontanious
Prose of Jack Kerouac", so it's not surprising that she wrote a
>favorable
review of the "Brith of the Beat Generation." I don't mean to
>discount
it. It's an excellent book. Part group biography, part scrapbook.
> It's more
than a "coffeetable book".
>
>Howard Park
The book is
actually called
The Spontaneous
Poetics of Jack Kerouac. Poetics, not
prose--I say this
only if someone
goes out looking for it and tries to order it at a
bookstore or
something.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:10:50 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
Hi Everybody and
HAPPY NEW YEAR. I've seen *Birth of the BG* in the bookstores
and was first of all
struck by the similarity in layout to *Generation X*. I
notice that
Herbert Huncke is deemd an "icon" as is Ginsberg's buddy from the
mental hospital,
Carl Solomon. To me these guys are minor characters and the
real icons are
Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, Cassady. Quibble, quibble. I
still would like
a copy of the book but at $27.50 I'll have to wait. I did
receive *Big Sky
Mind: Buddhism and the BG* for a Chritmas present. I'm happy
with it, reading
the Kerouac section at the moment, though again I have a few
quibbles with the
Introduction by a professor of philosophy who does not have
me convinced
about his knowledge of the Beats.
Best to you all.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:10:50 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
Hi Everybody and
HAPPY NEW YEAR. I've seen *Birth of the BG* in the bookstores
and was first of
all struck by the similarity in layout to *Generation X*. I
notice that
Herbert Huncke is deemd an "icon" as is Ginsberg's buddy from the
mental hospital,
Carl Solomon. To me these guys are minor characters and the
real icons are
Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, Cassady. Quibble, quibble. I
still would like
a copy of the book but at $27.50 I'll have to wait. I did
receive *Big Sky
Mind: Buddhism and the BG* for a Chritmas present. I'm happy
with it, reading
the Kerouac section at the moment, though again I have a few
quibbles with the
Introduction by a professor of philosophy who does not have
me convinced
about his knowledge of the Beats.
Best to you all.
Dan B.
P.S. I think Regina Weinreich's book is very
worthwhile. She was quite
prescient in her
Introduction, c. 1987, in saying "there's a Kerouac industry
out there."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:29:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 31 Dec 1995 20:16:56 -0500
from
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Watson's book is
interesting, particularly in terms of its novative
design. He makes good use of the margins for notes,
photos, and
quotations. I wrote a review for Library Journal, which I
haven't yet
seen in
print. There's an interesting review in
the November 1
Booklist, p.
449. Watson also did part of the Whitney
catalog and is
scheduled to
speak, I believe, at a conference at the New School for
Social Research
in New York City. Details are in the
Whitney monthly
calendar which I
haven't got with me at this time.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:02:31 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Baraka
In-Reply-To: <9512031818.AA14023@cabell.VCU.EDU>
I heard/saw ginsberg and his
"wife" orlovsky read at haverford college
in 1965 or
'66--pretty crazy, very radical, advocating free sex and drugs
and attacking
govt's stand on vietnam war, etc.....paul breslin in
"psycho-political
muse" claims ginsberg and other voices of "new american
poetry" of
late 50's/60's (including levertov, olson, wright) are not
original at all
but mouthing the cultural discourse of early 50's
"conformity
criticism" and neo-freudianism (including marcuse, laing et
al) with
background in marx, nietzsche, existentialism and (well,
yes) FREUD, the
BIG mr. brainwash for me as little kid in 50's)....THEN i
heard leroi jones
(= now BARAKA, right?) read at tuskegee institute, alabama
where i taught
english in 1969 and him say to the largely black audience
(me and a few
other instructors being paranoid white "honkeys from new york"):
"WE WANT BLACK POWER....don't let these
honkeys from new york brainwash you
with their crap
about sick existentialist jews from vianna"....
(his exact words i think).....hmmm, food for
thought here.....fws
(but i still can dig jones/baraka's
"preface to a 20-vol. suicide note")
On Sun, 3 Dec
1995, Kirsten A. Hirsch wrote:
> I saw Baraka
read last year in Richmond, VA and was not all that impressed. I
> think the
reading was tainted by the write up in the program which stressed
> that he had
"denounced" the beats and was born again into his African-
> American
heritage and that he was not the same man who married a white woman
> (which he
did) in the 1950's.
>
> I just don't
understand why he had to throw the entire part of his life that
> was
"beat" out the window in order to appreciate his heritage. I found
that
> very
disappointing.
>
> Kirsten
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 00:15:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: naropa institute/kerouac school of
disembodied poetics
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.960102233822.6308B-100000@ccshst08.cs.uoguelph.ca>
I've been having
a rough time trying to find information regarding the
naropa institute
& the school of poetics (the former of which I
understand is
part of the latter): there is nominally
a page for the
institute, but it
has absolutely nothing on it other than a link to a
journal from '94
regarding a visit to a gathering at the school.
I'm
very curious
about this school: if anyone knows how I
can find out all
about it, help
would be much appreciated.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Reeve at
da PEAK email:
peak@uoguelph.ca
Guelph's Student
Magazine phone:
(519)824-4120 x8522
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:06:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Subject: Christmas gifts
My family was
very kind this year. I got the CDRomnibus (which was special
ordered from
Olson Books in Washington DC) and the Beat Generation cds from
Rhino.
I've had fun with
the Romnibus. Wish there was more video and sound. Some of
the
"video" attached to readings is simply a still image and that is a
bit of
a let down. If
they were going to do something, they should have had clips
from PULL MY DAISY
etc.
THe Rhino cds are
interesting. Understanding the difference between BEAT and
BEATNIK is
important though. If you do, it's very entertaining.
Whoever suggested
writing to Waterow Books, I did and they sent me a great
catalog.
Apparently, sometime this year there will be a Beat Generation CD-
ROM similar to
the Kerouac one available through Waterow (and other sources I
am sure).
-Kirsten Hirsch
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 10:21:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
I don't defend
Baraka. I do respect him. Every man's life is his own, if he
wants to reject
part of it, its his to do. "Believe
it if you need it, if
you don't then
pass it on."
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 08:54:46 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Christmas gifts
>THe Rhino cds
are interesting. Understanding the difference between BEAT and
>BEATNIK is
important though. If you do, it's very entertaining.
>
What do you mean
here, Kirsten? Why do the Rhino CD's
elicit this comment?
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:47:59 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rhino CD's
Comments: To:
Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@comnet.usc.vcu.edu
At 01:50 PM
1/3/96 EST, you wrote:
>IMO, the
"beatnik" movement, if you will, was partly an exploitation of the
>BEAT
literature movement. The term "beatnik" was coined in a newspaper
>article
refering to any person who wore a beret and sandals and generally
>"loafed".
From what I understand, the "nik" was added to the end of beat as a
>joke, refering
to the new and popular fifties term "sputnik".
>
>Granted,
there was good work,etc. that came from the "beatnik" era and it was
>a precursor
to the "hippie" movement of the 60's. However, IMO, a lot of the
>beatnik
material on the Rhino CD's is mocking the "beat" movement.
>
>I look at it
as compared to the term "grunge" or "slacker". Grunge is a
style
>of music,
whereas if you are "grunge" you are a "slacker" but not
necessarily
>a musician.
It's just my way of putting it into perspective.
>
>I think the
original article that coined "beatnik" is on Levi's LIT KICKS web
>page.
>
>-Kirsten
Hirsch
>
Yeah. I know what you mean. beatnik conjures up images of people in black
turtlenecks, dark
glasses and black berets snapping there fingers and saying
daddy-o.
I guess I don't
know what Rhino CD you are talking about.
The kerouac
collection is put
out by Rhino and I thought you were talking about that.
Is there some
sort of Rhino beatnik CD?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:58:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Big Sky Mind
Hello everyone
I hope you had a
most safe, enjoyable, and respectable new year.
In a recent post,
Dan Barth wrote:
%%
I did receive
*Big Sky Mind: Buddhism and the BG* for a Chritmas present. I'm
happy with it,
reading the Kerouac section at the moment, though again I have
a few
quibbles with the
Introduction by a professor of philosophy who does not have
me convinced
about his knowledge of the Beats.
%%
I picked the book
up about 2 months ago and found it to be a good "alternate"
sort of
anthology, not the general sort of anthology that The Beat Reader
tries to be. I find little new except the general thread
of "seeker" along
the Beat-Buddhism
axis....
I'd like to read
some more impressions of _Big Sky Mind_.
BTW, _Big Sky
Mind_, a "Tricycle Book", leads me to the magazine
"Tricycle",
published
quarterly, which includes pieces on the beats sometimes,
Kerouac&buddhism,
AllenG&buddhism, et cetera.
Regards,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:26:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: naropa institute/kerouac school of
disembodied poetics
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>I've been
having a rough time trying to find information regarding the
>naropa
institute & the school of poetics (the former of which I
>understand is
part of the latter): there is nominally
a page for the
>institute,
but it has absolutely nothing on it other than a link to a
>journal from
'94 regarding a visit to a gathering at the school. I'm
>very curious
about this school: if anyone knows how I
can find out all
>about it,
help would be much appreciated.
I'd also
appreciate this information.. I'll be grad. next year and would
like to know if
it is worth going for a Masters there..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 17:11:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: naropa institute/kerouac school of
disembodied poetics
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:26:37 -0500
from
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
The College
Handbook lists the current information on Naropa: Naropa Institute
, 2130 Arapahoe
Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302. Telephone: 303-444-0202. An M.A.
as well as MFA is
offered.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:26:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
In-Reply-To:
<960103102135_83042145@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Howard
Park"
at Jan 3, 96 10:21:36 am
About baraka:
i recently saw
him read from his new collection of poems "transbluency"
at the borders in
phila. -- the man's message is loud and clear and it is
unfortunate that
so many just label him a racist and dismiss him --
besides the
serious and DAMNING political bashing (surely deserved in my
book) in his
poetry, he also calls for his people to lay the foundations
for a cultural
base, something that is true and that will not be brushed
away as a fad --
the fact that i am white did not diminish the urgency of
his message --
the reading and the discussion afterwards were incredibly
inspiring for me
-- baraka's eyes are WIDE open and his political message
(he is now a
third-world socialist and very active in demonstrations
around the world)
and all the implications it carries causes alot of
people to turn
away in fear/blindness or whatever --(by the way, baraka
denounced his
early nationalism long ago) -- i look at baraka's voice as
a vital one and a
simple reading of his poetry i think warrants this --
baraka made some
comments on the beats -- he explained that they were
never united
except in the sense that they were all working towards a
break-down of
language -- he said that he and ginsberg are/were good
friends but that
he disagrees with 99.9 percent of what ginsberg says --
he mentioned
reading 'howl' for the first time while in the navy and
writing to
ginsberg asking him if he was "really for real"-- baraka
generally doesn't
see himself as a member of that group and wonders why
he is so often
lumped into it -- he also told everyone to check out bob
kaufmann if they
really wanted to know where alot of what is considered
"beat'
"came from" --
this comment
interests me and i was wondering why kaufman poetry is so
hard to obtain --
reading his "ancient rain poems" i was struck by HOW
GOOD HE IS -- why
is this man so often ignored -- he did say shortly
before he died
that he wanted to be anonymous, but it is amazing to me
that we could let
such a good poet get buried in the shade of lesser
talents -- he is
the original jazz poet -- has anyone found any
recordings of
kaufman --
also, since this
is the first time i'm contributing to this list(although
i've been reading
all the mail for about a month), my BIG question is
"WHO HAS A
COPY OF 'Mishaps,Perhaps" by Solomon" -- can it actually be
found, CAN IT? --
can we convince ferlinghetti to reissue it, can we
threaten him? --
what about Lamantia poetry, the only 'beat' embraced by
andre breton
himself as a liberated soul -- is 'meadowlark west' all that
is left of this
amazing poet?
will
wss.mail.sas.upenn.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:53:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Comments: To:
William S Schofield <wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
> Date
sent: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:26:22 -0500
> Send reply
to: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
> From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Baraka
> To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYV
William Schofield
wrote:
> i was
wondering why kaufman poetry is so
> hard to
obtain -- reading his "ancient rain poems" i was struck by HOW
> GOOD HE IS
-- why is this man so often ignored -- he did say shortly
> before he
died that he wanted to be anonymous, but it is amazing to me
> that we
could let such a good poet get buried in the shade of lesser
> talents --
he is the original jazz poet -- has anyone found any
> recordings
of kaufman --
Yeah, you're
right, it's pretty sad about Bob Kaufman, his work was
that great. Even
GOLDEN SARDINE, I think, is out of print now, though
the newly
published CITY LIGHTS POCKET POETS ANTHOLOGY (a terrific
anthology!) has a
coupla poems from GOLDEN SARDINE.
But there will be
published this year, if it has not been already,
this book:
CRANIAL GUITAR: SELECTED POEMS, by Bob Kaufman! It's
published by
Coffee House Press, in Minneapolis. I went on-line to
see who might own
this, and only the Library of Congress has a record
of it right now.
Recordings,
though, when I tried to locate anything through the
Library of
Congress, nothing showed, and so there's probably nothing
commercial, at
least.
> also, since
this is the first time i'm contributing to this list(although
> i've been
reading all the mail for about a month), my BIG question is
> "WHO
HAS A COPY OF 'Mishaps,Perhaps" by Solomon" -- can it actually be
> found, CAN
IT? -- can we convince ferlinghetti to reissue it, can we
> threaten
him? -- what about Lamantia poetry, the only 'beat' embraced by
> andre breton
himself as a liberated soul -- is 'meadowlark west' all that
> is left of
this amazing poet
I think the
Solomon stuff is out of print now, all of it, though in
1989 he published
his memoirs, called EMERGENCY MESSAGES: AN
AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL
MISCELLANEY, through Paragon, the same folks who did
Huncke's GUILTY
OF EVERYTHING.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:58:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Comments: To:
William S Schofield <wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
A quick addendum:
I don't know if I
mentioned it, but a sequel of sorts was printed
after Carl
Solomon's MISHAPS, PERHAPS, called MORE MISHAPS. I was
lucky enough to
find copies of these a long time ago. And it's funny
looking at what
the Library of Congress sees as among its official
subject headings:
"Psychiatric Hospital Patients--United States--
Biography" !!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:11:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
>About baraka:
Will -- I had a copy of Mishaps, which I picked up at
a used bookstore up
here in the snowy
UP of Michigan. I eventually gifted-it away. I don't
rmember it as
being a City Lights publication, though. I've been wrong
before, but
there's a first time for everything!
Cheers,
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:41:32 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Thorn
<mthorn@FASTNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Kerouac's Letters
I've had this
book for a couple of months, and am reading
it real slow, one
letter at a time, every few days.
Still on page 65,
having finished a moving letter from Mom
(not Memere - she
signs herself Mom) distraught at Jack's
attitude towards
the navy.
Anyone else at a
similar point?
Michael
mthorn@fastnet.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 19:44:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Carl Solomon (Was re: Baraka)
There are two
brief excerpts from "Mishaps, Perhaps" in the Penguin "Portable
Beat Reader"
(1992). According to the acknowledgements therein, the book
*was* published
by City Lights and is copyrighted 1966
by Carl Solomon.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:15:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Hello again
folks.
William Miller
here.
In a message
dated 96-01-04 14:26:19 EST, Clay Vaughn writes:
>I don't know
if I mentioned it, but a sequel of sorts was printed
>after Carl
Solomon's MISHAPS, PERHAPS, called MORE MISHAPS. I was
>lucky enough
to find copies of these a long time ago. And it's funny
>looking at
what the Library of Congress sees as among its official
>subject
headings: "Psychiatric Hospital Patients--United States--
>Biography" !!!!!
A humorous side
note is in order here: William Burroughs'
_The Cat Inside_
is listed under
"Pet Owners--United States--Biography" -----------
Sincerely,
William
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:34:08 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Interview with Neal Cassady's son
In-Reply-To: <960105101510_32523505@mail06.mail.aol.com>
from "William Miller"
at Jan 5, 96 10:15:11 am
I just put a
fairly extensive interview with John Cassady, Neal's 43-year-old
son, up on my web
site. I think it turned out pretty
interesting ... the
direct URL is
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/JCI/JCInterview.html, or you
can just go in
thru my Beat News or Neal Cassady pages.
Happy New Year
everyone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Some people like to go
out dancing,
but other people like us, they
gotta work
And there's even some evil
mothers
who'll tell you life is just made
out of dirt
That women never really
faint
that villains always blink
their eyes
That children are the only ones
who blush
and that life is just a
dive"
-- Velvet Underground, "Sweet
Jane"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:57:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Unpublished Kerouac
The Fall 1995
issue of <<DHARMA beat>> magazine includes an unpublished
story by Jack
Kerouac, titled "My Sunset Birth."
This issue also
includes:
o Study of Kerouac's spirituality,
o Description of the beat exhibit at
the Whitney,
o Photo essay of Kerouac sites in San Francisco,
o Review of selected Kerouac archives,
and
o Other reviews, info and stuff on
Kerouac and beat activites and
resources.
<<DHARMA
beat>>, is published twice a year by the non-profit Jack Kerouac
Subterrnaean
Information Society. It is dedicated to getting the word out
on Kerouac
activities, publications and organizations.
Available from:
The Jack Kerouac subterranean Information Society, Box
1753, Lowell, MA
01853-1753, USA. RATES: Sample $2.00, Subscription (2)
issues 5.00 US
per year (Foreign $7.00 US). Hardcopy only.
Thanks.
Mark Hemenway
Attila Gyenis
Editors
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:07:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Keroauc/beat events
We're starting to
get the Spring 1996 issue of <<DHARMA beat>> magazine
together. If
anyone is planning or knows of Kerouac or beat events,
organizations,
activities, clubs, etc. we would be happy to publish that
information for
you.
Send who, what,
when, where and how much (if appropriate) to me at this
address or snail
mail to the Jack Kerouac subterranean Information
Society, BOX
1753, Lowell, MA 01853-1753.
Thanks,
Mark Hemenway
Co-editor
mhemenway@s1.drc.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:10:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kris L. Dolberg"
<GreenTramp@AOL.COM>
Subject: filler: I win!!! :)
I WIN!!! :)
I hurt you?
Good, that was my
intention
You will remember
your first time
And I took it
from you
But my purpose
was planned
You fell in my
trap
You treated me
wrong
You disrespected
me
You lied
You snuck around
And thought I'd
be there always
Like a doll
You can play with
me when you want
And then drop me
And when you come
back I'll be ready and willing
I ain't like that
And I got my
revenge
I taught you a
lesson
You'll never
forget me
And maybe next
time you'll show your woman some respect
-Zoe LD
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:27:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kris L. Dolberg"
<GreenTramp@AOL.COM>
Subject: filler: Father, just remember.
FATHER, JUST
REMEMBER
You're so sweet
If only you could
remember
You have a
daughter
The one that's
sitting beside you
The one that's
always there
You know I'm here
You do care
but your blinded
You confuse me
You ignore me and
blow me off
Then you turn
around and act like I'm all you have
I know you care
Just remember
Please don't ever
forget me, father
-Zoe LD
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:45:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kris L. Dolberg"
<GreenTramp@AOL.COM>
Subject: filler: Love's Pain
LOVE'S PAIN
You say it's bad
to not love
But look at the pain
you're in
It's because of
love
The tears that
flow endlessly
It's because of
love
I don't love
I don't care
I'm happy
Look at me
I don't feel
love's pain
Maybe I'll love
later
I don't have time
now
-Zoe LD
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:02:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 1 Jan 1996 to 2 Jan
1996
Scattered
responses to list topics:
Regina
Weinreich's book on "poetics" not "prose": a good
distinction:
"poetics"
is a word that can link Kerouac with other theorists of "making"
(Greek poesis)
literary works in late 20th C (I think of poet Charles Olson,
whose
"field" approach has a lot of similarity with Kerouac's
improvs). I
used the word too
in my the title of my dissertation on Herman Melville to
talk about his
theories of making texts as well -- it has some currency in
lit crit these
days to describe prose writers' as well as poets' acts of
making.
Howard, do you
know when the Beat show will be in Minneapolis?
On Baraka:
there's a great video of him reading and being interviewed in the
Lannan Foundation
series, which is in many libraries. To
my mind, Baraka has
held firm to a
Marxist approach to the revolutionary agenda introduced by the
Beats, later
incorporated into 60s counter-culture. I
find his critique of
culture to be
very informed and not dismissable simply for being Marxist;
theoretical
Marxism was not foreclosed by the demise of the Soviet bloc, no
matter what
George Will etc. would have us think -- the Soviets had long
since
discontinued being Marxist, were totalitarian, or even (some contend)
state-controlled
capitalism. Or, to quote the rock band,
The Mekons: "How
can socialism
really be dead if it never even happened?"
On Naropa: If you
don't want to enroll there for a longer period or just want
a taste, Naropa
has a summer program (or at least they used to -- I haven't
been in touch
with them in a few years) which annually brings in the
still-living
heroes of American writing we've been talking about, as well as
many of the
better experimental American poets who were influenced by Beat
stuff (I think of
Clark Coolidge, for instance, who I saw read there) for
readings and
classes. I didn't attend Naropa, but did
the CU at Boulder
writing program,
and attended many of the summer Naropa events, many of which
were open to the
public for an admission charge. If
you're short of cash,
you can just hang
out (a popular pasttime in Boulder) and attend selected
events.
Has anyone on the
list actually _attended_ Naropa? What
was it like?
Peace,
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 03:03:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Naropa
Ted asked if
anyone had ever attended Naropa. I took a class there about the
Shambhala
tradition, but it too was a summer class, and I wasn't enrolled as
a full-time
student. My feelings about Naropa are mixed; I very much respect
what they're
trying to do, but I think they fall into the trappings many
academic
institutions do, which is letting their ego get in the way of their
compassion (this seems particularly problematic in a
Buddhist-founded
school). That was
just one - my - experience though; I
also knew a man who
got his M.A. from
the Transpersonal Psych. program there and he emerged with
excellent counseling
skills, and was very compassionate and mindful.
He told
me that the application process for his program
was pretty rigorous, but not
in the
traditional academic sense. They put a lot of emphasis on personal
growth work, and
communication & participation skills, more so than academic
record (which I
don't suppose is such a big surprise). That's all I know.
Liz
(p.s. - Hi Clay)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:00:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 1 Jan 1996 to 2 Jan
1996
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:02:04 -0500
from <Notlep@AOL.COM>
A footnote to
Ted's posting: The Lannan foundation has
produced a number of fi
ne videos on
Beats and other poets. These videos are
made available to many li
braries free through
a grant from Lannan. Check your local
libraries.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 10:42:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Minneapolis and SF dates for Beat show
According to the
catalog, the "Beat Culture and the New America" show ends at
the Whitney on Feb.
4, opens at the Walker in Minneapolis on June 2 - Sept.
15, then to the
de Young in San Francisco Oct. 5 - Dec. 29.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:28:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Minn/SF Dates for Beat Show
Greetings from
frozen Washington. Dammit, if its not
the freshmen Republican
assholes
"revolutionaries" to shut the city down its the weather!
Anyway, according
to many of you outside the beltway there was something
wrong with my
previous post re: future dates for the beat show currently at
the Whitney. Here goes:
through Feb. 4 -
Whitney, NYC
June 2 - Sept.
15, Walker Art Center, Minneapolis
Oct. 5 - Dec. 29,
deYoung, San Francisco
BTW - I'm helping
to promote a band, Outer Body Llama, and all of you near DC
should see them
at the 15 Minute Club this Tuesday, 1/9 - it will be time to
dig out by
then! E-Mail me directly for details.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:02:00 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: ccraig@CHATLINK.COM
Subject: Looking for.....
I am looking for
a communications group of persons who:
do not feel part
of the baby boomers;
are not old
enough to be WWIIers;
who have some of
the conservative, economical ideas of the
depression era parents who might have raised
children
before WWII;
I am having
trouble identifying with groups born after 1946.
please respond to
me at
ccraig@chatlink.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:14:19 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Big Sky Mind
A couple of weeks ago at a used book
store I picked up a book by Lafcadio
Hearn called *Kwaidan:
Stories and Studies of Strange Things*. Most of the
stories are from
Chinese and Japanese sources. One titled
"The Story of
Mimi-Nashi-Hoichi" includes a reference to the Buddhist
"Pragna-
Paramita-Hridaya-Sutra"
and includes this footnote: "Both the smaller and
larger sutras
called Pragna-Paramita (Transcendent Wisdom) have been
translated by the
late Professor Max Muller, and can be found in volume xlix.
of *The Sacred
Books of the East* ('Buddhist Mahayana Sutras'). -- Apropos of
the magical use
of the text, as described in this story, it is worth
remarking that
the subject of the sutra is the Doctrine of the Emptiness of
Forms, -- that is
to say, of the unreal character of all phenomena or noumena
. . . . ' Form is
emptiness; and emptiness is form. Emptiness is not
different from
form; form is not different from emptiness. What is form --
that is
emptiness. What is emptiness -- that is form . . . . ' "
I copied that down because I liked the
way it resonated in my mind. Then a
few days later I
was reading the Kerouac section of *Big Sky Mind* and came
across these
riffs or takes that Kerouac had done on that sutra. I'm not
trying to make a
point here, I just like the way these things sound, the way
old Jack played
with the words and concepts of the Transcendent Wisdom Sutra.
So here you go:
". . . Philip, there's no
difference between you and the tree and the fence,
different
appearances of the same (holy-if-you-will) empty essence. It is in
the Hridaya Prajna
Paramita, ie., like, the tree and the fence are emptiness,
the tree and the
fence are not different from emptiness, neither is emptiness
different from
the tree and the fence, indeed, emptiness is the tree & the
fence. Because
emptiness is everything and everything is emptiness. And even
emptiness is a
word, so, a prayer, the world, I mean the word emptiness is
emptiness, the
word emptiness is not different from emptiness, neither is
emptiness
different from the word emptiness, indeed, emptiness is the word
emptiness!"
(Letter to Philip Whalen)
"Gary here's what I hope to see
before I die. A whole bunch of Bhikkus are
sitting in the
open, one of them holds his juju beads and recites out loud,
while the others
follow bead by bead, he is reciting spontaneous prayers that
begin with the
big Buddha bead and run through the other wooden ones and the
two glass beads.
He goes, say, like this: 'Sitting in the open is the
emptiness of the
Buddha bead, sitting in the open is not different from the
emptiness of the
Buddha bead, neither is the emptiness of the Buddha bead
different from
sitting in the open, indeed, the emptiness of the Buddha bead,
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 11:37:24 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
In-Reply-To:
<951231201656_81734192@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "W. Luther
Jett" at Dec 31, 95 08:16:56
pm
> Today's
Washington Post carries a very favourable review of a new book, "The
> Birth of the
Beat Generation: Visionaries, Rebels, and Hipsters 1844-1960",
> by Steven
Watson (Pantheon). I quote, in part, from the review:
>
> "An
elegant coffee-table book, 'The Birth of the Beat Generation' juxtaposes
> arresting,
seldom-seen photographs with a lively, engaging, bare-bones
> narrative.
It also juxtaposes maps both geographic and interrelational with
> assorted
marginalia: quips, booklists and beat argot. . . . Not since
> Lawrence
Lipson's 'Holy Barbarians' of 1959 has there been a book of the Beat
> experience
whole, even though various biographies have in varying degree
> mined the
details. . . . Oddly, what is wanting, a true assessment, does not
> diminish
this book's achievement . . . ."
>
> So, has
anyone seen the book? How accurate is the reviewer's assessment?
I pretty much
agree. The book is very nicely designed
and has a lot of
illustrations. The text seems accurate. More of a sense of spontaneity and
random
connections than in other, more traditional books of this type.
One thing I
haven't seen yet is Voyager's new Beat Experience CD-Rom, or
whatever it's
called. Not the Kerouac one (from
Viking) but the one that
ties into the
Whitney exhibit (I think). Any reports
on it?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Some people like to go
out dancing,
but other people like us, they
gotta work
And there's even some evil
mothers
who'll tell you life is just made
out of dirt
That women never really
faint
that villains always blink
their eyes
That children are the only ones
who blush
and that life is just a
dive"
-- Velvet
Underground, "Sweet Jane"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:41:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
The reviewer,
Regina Weinreich, is a real beat fan and author of "The
Spontanious Prose
of Jack Kerouac", so it's not surprising that she wrote a
favorable review
of the "Brith of the Beat Generation." I don't mean to
discount it. It's an excellent book. Part group biography, part scrapbook.
It's more than a "coffeetable book".
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:41:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Whitney Show
I wrote a sort of
review of thw Whitney show awhile back.
I enjoyed and was
captivated by it,
but I don't think I would make a special trip to New York
for it
alone. It will travel to Minneapolis and
San Francisco later this
year. The highlight of the show for me was the
original rolled up manuscript
of On The Road
and the Dharma Bums.
H. Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 12:08:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 30 Dec 1995 to 31 Dec
1995
Have just got
back from a week in NYC with 2500 philosophers, and got to see
the Whitney
exhibit. For me, there was some great stuff there - a lot of
JK's original
artwork, the teletype roll of OTR, a bunch of his notebooks,
sketchpads etc,
and a lot of photos of NYC and Beats around there, including
quite a few I'd
never seen in books. I can see why the art critics were down
on the exhibit
though, because the link between the big pieces on display
and the Beats
seemed tentative to say the least, i.e. the Jackson Pollock
painting and some
of the other art - nice stuff in its own right (most of
it) but out of
kilter with the rest of the exhibit. Still, there was so much
of the real thing
there I didn't mind. A most interesting video on show
(plus for sale, a
copy of which I got) with all sorts of
JK/Ginsberg/Burroughs
clips, weird art montages and some really cool jazz
from the period
with Miles and Coltrane and so on. And a great audio track
which you could
listen to at the exhibit (but I couldn't see for sale) with
readings, jazz,
etc.
So I think you
have to be a True Fan, but then I guess most all of us on
this list are ...
it was well worth the trip and the $$$ to see the artefacts.
N W-W
>
>I have heard
about and read a little about the current exhibit at the
>Whitney
Museum in New York. Has this exhibit
been discussed by fellows
>on the
net? What is of particular
interest? What special performances
>have been
included, who has seen them, and what reports can be given?
>
>I've ordered
the catalog from the museum and have a standing order for
>the
CD-ROM. I hope that I have made the
right choice in getting these
>items. I would like to fly into New York and see the
actual exhibit, but
>time and $
weigh on my mind and wallet, making me choose the lest costly,
>more ordinary
alternatives.
>
>So let me
know. Who has seen the show? Whither goest thou, Whitney, in thy
>shiny black
car in the night?
>
>
>
>
>
>Bill of the
North Woods
>
>------------------------------
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:56:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
>The reviewer,
Regina Weinreich, is a real beat fan and author of "The
>Spontanious
Prose of Jack Kerouac", so it's not surprising that she wrote a
>favorable
review of the "Brith of the Beat Generation." I don't mean to
>discount
it. It's an excellent book. Part group biography, part scrapbook.
> It's more
than a "coffeetable book".
>
>Howard Park
The book is
actually called
The Spontaneous
Poetics of Jack Kerouac. Poetics, not
prose--I say this
only if someone
goes out looking for it and tries to order it at a
bookstore or
something.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:10:50 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
Hi Everybody and
HAPPY NEW YEAR. I've seen *Birth of the BG* in the bookstores
and was first of
all struck by the similarity in layout to *Generation X*. I
notice that
Herbert Huncke is deemd an "icon" as is Ginsberg's buddy from the
mental hospital,
Carl Solomon. To me these guys are minor characters and the
real icons are
Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, Cassady. Quibble, quibble. I
still would like
a copy of the book but at $27.50 I'll have to wait. I did
receive *Big Sky
Mind: Buddhism and the BG* for a Chritmas present. I'm happy
with it, reading
the Kerouac section at the moment, though again I have a few
quibbles with the
Introduction by a professor of philosophy who does not have
me convinced
about his knowledge of the Beats.
Best to you all.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:10:50 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
Hi Everybody and
HAPPY NEW YEAR. I've seen *Birth of the BG* in the bookstores
and was first of
all struck by the similarity in layout to *Generation X*. I
notice that
Herbert Huncke is deemd an "icon" as is Ginsberg's buddy from the
mental hospital,
Carl Solomon. To me these guys are minor characters and the
real icons are
Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, Cassady. Quibble, quibble. I
still would like
a copy of the book but at $27.50 I'll have to wait. I did
receive *Big Sky
Mind: Buddhism and the BG* for a Chritmas present. I'm happy
with it, reading
the Kerouac section at the moment, though again I have a few
quibbles with the
Introduction by a professor of philosophy who does not have
me convinced
about his knowledge of the Beats.
Best to you all.
Dan B.
P.S. I think Regina Weinreich's book is very
worthwhile. She was quite
prescient in her
Introduction, c. 1987, in saying "there's a Kerouac industry
out there."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:29:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Birth of the Beat Generation
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 31 Dec 1995 20:16:56 -0500
from
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Watson's book is
interesting, particularly in terms of its novative
design. He makes good use of the margins for notes,
photos, and
quotations. I wrote a review for Library Journal, which I
haven't yet
seen in
print. There's an interesting review in
the November 1
Booklist, p.
449. Watson also did part of the Whitney
catalog and is
scheduled to speak,
I believe, at a conference at the New School for
Social Research
in New York City. Details are in the
Whitney monthly
calendar which I
haven't got with me at this time.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:02:31 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Baraka
In-Reply-To: <9512031818.AA14023@cabell.VCU.EDU>
I heard/saw ginsberg and his
"wife" orlovsky read at haverford college
in 1965 or
'66--pretty crazy, very radical, advocating free sex and drugs
and attacking
govt's stand on vietnam war, etc.....paul breslin in
"psycho-political
muse" claims ginsberg and other voices of "new american
poetry" of
late 50's/60's (including levertov, olson, wright) are not
original at all
but mouthing the cultural discourse of early 50's
"conformity
criticism" and neo-freudianism (including marcuse, laing et
al) with
background in marx, nietzsche, existentialism and (well,
yes) FREUD, the
BIG mr. brainwash for me as little kid in 50's)....THEN i
heard leroi jones
(= now BARAKA, right?) read at tuskegee institute, alabama
where i taught
english in 1969 and him say to the largely black audience
(me and a few
other instructors being paranoid white "honkeys from new york"):
"WE WANT BLACK POWER....don't let these
honkeys from new york brainwash you
with their crap
about sick existentialist jews from vianna"....
(his exact words i think).....hmmm, food for
thought here.....fws
(but i still can dig jones/baraka's
"preface to a 20-vol. suicide note")
On Sun, 3 Dec
1995, Kirsten A. Hirsch wrote:
> I saw Baraka
read last year in Richmond, VA and was not all that impressed. I
> think the
reading was tainted by the write up in the program which stressed
> that he had
"denounced" the beats and was born again into his African-
> American
heritage and that he was not the same man who married a white woman
> (which he
did) in the 1950's.
>
> I just don't
understand why he had to throw the entire part of his life that
> was
"beat" out the window in order to appreciate his heritage. I found
that
> very disappointing.
>
> Kirsten
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 00:15:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: naropa institute/kerouac school of
disembodied poetics
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.960102233822.6308B-100000@ccshst08.cs.uoguelph.ca>
I've been having
a rough time trying to find information regarding the
naropa institute
& the school of poetics (the former of which I
understand is
part of the latter): there is nominally
a page for the
institute, but it
has absolutely nothing on it other than a link to a
journal from '94
regarding a visit to a gathering at the school.
I'm
very curious
about this school: if anyone knows how I
can find out all
about it, help
would be much appreciated.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Reeve at
da PEAK email:
peak@uoguelph.ca
Guelph's Student
Magazine phone:
(519)824-4120 x8522
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:06:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"
<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>
Subject: Christmas gifts
My family was
very kind this year. I got the CDRomnibus (which was special
ordered from
Olson Books in Washington DC) and the Beat Generation cds from
Rhino.
I've had fun with
the Romnibus. Wish there was more video and sound. Some of
the
"video" attached to readings is simply a still image and that is a
bit of
a let down. If
they were going to do something, they should have had clips
from PULL MY
DAISY etc.
THe Rhino cds are
interesting. Understanding the difference between BEAT and
BEATNIK is
important though. If you do, it's very entertaining.
Whoever suggested
writing to Waterow Books, I did and they sent me a great
catalog. Apparently,
sometime this year there will be a Beat Generation CD-
ROM similar to
the Kerouac one available through Waterow (and other sources I
am sure).
-Kirsten Hirsch
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 10:21:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
I don't defend
Baraka. I do respect him. Every man's life is his own, if he
wants to reject
part of it, its his to do. "Believe
it if you need it, if
you don't then
pass it on."
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 08:54:46 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Christmas gifts
>THe Rhino cds
are interesting. Understanding the difference between BEAT and
>BEATNIK is
important though. If you do, it's very entertaining.
>
What do you mean
here, Kirsten? Why do the Rhino CD's
elicit this comment?
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:47:59 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rhino CD's
Comments: To:
Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@comnet.usc.vcu.edu
At 01:50 PM
1/3/96 EST, you wrote:
>IMO, the
"beatnik" movement, if you will, was partly an exploitation of the
>BEAT
literature movement. The term "beatnik" was coined in a newspaper
>article
refering to any person who wore a beret and sandals and generally
>"loafed".
From what I understand, the "nik" was added to the end of beat as a
>joke,
refering to the new and popular fifties term "sputnik".
>
>Granted,
there was good work,etc. that came from the "beatnik" era and it was
>a precursor
to the "hippie" movement of the 60's. However, IMO, a lot of the
>beatnik
material on the Rhino CD's is mocking the "beat" movement.
>
>I look at it
as compared to the term "grunge" or "slacker". Grunge is a
style
>of music,
whereas if you are "grunge" you are a "slacker" but not
necessarily
>a musician.
It's just my way of putting it into perspective.
>
>I think the
original article that coined "beatnik" is on Levi's LIT KICKS web
>page.
>
>-Kirsten
Hirsch
>
Yeah. I know what you mean. beatnik conjures up images of people in black
turtlenecks, dark
glasses and black berets snapping there fingers and saying
daddy-o.
I guess I don't
know what Rhino CD you are talking about.
The kerouac
collection is put
out by Rhino and I thought you were talking about that.
Is there some
sort of Rhino beatnik CD?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:58:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Big Sky Mind
Hello everyone
I hope you had a
most safe, enjoyable, and respectable new year.
In a recent post,
Dan Barth wrote:
%%
I did receive
*Big Sky Mind: Buddhism and the BG* for a Chritmas present. I'm
happy with it,
reading the Kerouac section at the moment, though again I have
a few
quibbles with the
Introduction by a professor of philosophy who does not have
me convinced
about his knowledge of the Beats.
%%
I picked the book
up about 2 months ago and found it to be a good "alternate"
sort of
anthology, not the general sort of anthology that The Beat Reader
tries to be. I find little new except the general thread
of "seeker" along
the Beat-Buddhism
axis....
I'd like to read
some more impressions of _Big Sky Mind_.
BTW, _Big Sky
Mind_, a "Tricycle Book", leads me to the magazine
"Tricycle",
published
quarterly, which includes pieces on the beats sometimes,
Kerouac&buddhism,
AllenG&buddhism, et cetera.
Regards,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:26:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: naropa institute/kerouac school of
disembodied poetics
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>I've been
having a rough time trying to find information regarding the
>naropa
institute & the school of poetics (the former of which I
>understand is
part of the latter): there is nominally
a page for the
>institute,
but it has absolutely nothing on it other than a link to a
>journal from
'94 regarding a visit to a gathering at the school. I'm
>very curious
about this school: if anyone knows how I
can find out all
>about it,
help would be much appreciated.
I'd also
appreciate this information.. I'll be grad. next year and would
like to know if
it is worth going for a Masters there..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 17:11:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: naropa institute/kerouac school of
disembodied poetics
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:26:37 -0500
from
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
The College
Handbook lists the current information on Naropa: Naropa Institute
, 2130 Arapahoe
Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302. Telephone: 303-444-0202. An M.A.
as well as MFA is
offered.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:26:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
In-Reply-To:
<960103102135_83042145@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "Howard
Park"
at Jan 3, 96 10:21:36 am
About baraka:
i recently saw
him read from his new collection of poems "transbluency"
at the borders in
phila. -- the man's message is loud and clear and it is
unfortunate that
so many just label him a racist and dismiss him --
besides the
serious and DAMNING political bashing (surely deserved in my
book) in his
poetry, he also calls for his people to lay the foundations
for a cultural
base, something that is true and that will not be brushed
away as a fad --
the fact that i am white did not diminish the urgency of
his message --
the reading and the discussion afterwards were incredibly
inspiring for me
-- baraka's eyes are WIDE open and his political message
(he is now a
third-world socialist and very active in demonstrations
around the world)
and all the implications it carries causes alot of
people to turn
away in fear/blindness or whatever --(by the way, baraka
denounced his
early nationalism long ago) -- i look at baraka's voice as
a vital one and a
simple reading of his poetry i think warrants this --
baraka made some
comments on the beats -- he explained that they were
never united
except in the sense that they were all working towards a
break-down of
language -- he said that he and ginsberg are/were good
friends but that
he disagrees with 99.9 percent of what ginsberg says --
he mentioned
reading 'howl' for the first time while in the navy and
writing to
ginsberg asking him if he was "really for real"-- baraka
generally doesn't
see himself as a member of that group and wonders why
he is so often
lumped into it -- he also told everyone to check out bob
kaufmann if they
really wanted to know where alot of what is considered
"beat'
"came from" --
this comment
interests me and i was wondering why kaufman poetry is so
hard to obtain --
reading his "ancient rain poems" i was struck by HOW
GOOD HE IS -- why
is this man so often ignored -- he did say shortly
before he died
that he wanted to be anonymous, but it is amazing to me
that we could let
such a good poet get buried in the shade of lesser
talents -- he is
the original jazz poet -- has anyone found any
recordings of
kaufman --
also, since this
is the first time i'm contributing to this list(although
i've been reading
all the mail for about a month), my BIG question is
"WHO HAS A
COPY OF 'Mishaps,Perhaps" by Solomon" -- can it actually be
found, CAN IT? --
can we convince ferlinghetti to reissue it, can we
threaten him? --
what about Lamantia poetry, the only 'beat' embraced by
andre breton
himself as a liberated soul -- is 'meadowlark west' all that
is left of this
amazing poet?
will
wss.mail.sas.upenn.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:53:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Comments: To:
William S Schofield <wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
> Date
sent: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:26:22 -0500
> Send reply
to: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
> From: William S Schofield <wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
>
Subject: Re: Baraka
> To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYV
William Schofield
wrote:
> i was
wondering why kaufman poetry is so
> hard to
obtain -- reading his "ancient rain poems" i was struck by HOW
> GOOD HE IS
-- why is this man so often ignored -- he did say shortly
> before he
died that he wanted to be anonymous, but it is amazing to me
> that we
could let such a good poet get buried in the shade of lesser
> talents --
he is the original jazz poet -- has anyone found any
> recordings
of kaufman --
Yeah, you're
right, it's pretty sad about Bob Kaufman, his work was
that great. Even
GOLDEN SARDINE, I think, is out of print now, though
the newly
published CITY LIGHTS POCKET POETS ANTHOLOGY (a terrific
anthology!) has a
coupla poems from GOLDEN SARDINE.
But there will be
published this year, if it has not been already,
this book:
CRANIAL GUITAR: SELECTED POEMS, by Bob Kaufman! It's
published by
Coffee House Press, in Minneapolis. I went on-line to
see who might own
this, and only the Library of Congress has a record
of it right now.
Recordings,
though, when I tried to locate anything through the
Library of
Congress, nothing showed, and so there's probably nothing
commercial, at
least.
> also, since
this is the first time i'm contributing to this list(although
> i've been
reading all the mail for about a month), my BIG question is
> "WHO
HAS A COPY OF 'Mishaps,Perhaps" by Solomon" -- can it actually be
> found, CAN
IT? -- can we convince ferlinghetti to reissue it, can we
> threaten
him? -- what about Lamantia poetry, the only 'beat' embraced by
> andre breton
himself as a liberated soul -- is 'meadowlark west' all that
> is left of
this amazing poet
I think the
Solomon stuff is out of print now, all of it, though in
1989 he published
his memoirs, called EMERGENCY MESSAGES: AN
AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL
MISCELLANEY, through Paragon, the same folks who did
Huncke's GUILTY
OF EVERYTHING.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:58:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Comments: To:
William S Schofield <wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
A quick addendum:
I don't know if I
mentioned it, but a sequel of sorts was printed
after Carl
Solomon's MISHAPS, PERHAPS, called MORE MISHAPS. I was
lucky enough to
find copies of these a long time ago. And it's funny
looking at what
the Library of Congress sees as among its official
subject headings:
"Psychiatric Hospital Patients--United States--
Biography" !!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:11:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baraka
>About baraka:
Will -- I had a copy of Mishaps, which I picked up at
a used bookstore up
here in the snowy
UP of Michigan. I eventually gifted-it away. I don't
rmember it as
being a City Lights publication, though. I've been wrong
before, but
there's a first time for everything!
Cheers,
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:41:32 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Thorn
<mthorn@FASTNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Kerouac's Letters
I've had this
book for a couple of months, and am reading
it real slow, one
letter at a time, every few days.
Still on page 65,
having finished a moving letter from Mom
(not Memere - she
signs herself Mom) distraught at Jack's
attitude towards
the navy.
Anyone else at a
similar point?
Michael
mthorn@fastnet.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 19:44:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Carl Solomon (Was re: Baraka)
There are two
brief excerpts from "Mishaps, Perhaps" in the Penguin "Portable
Beat Reader"
(1992). According to the acknowledgements therein, the book
*was* published
by City Lights and is copyrighted 1966
by Carl Solomon.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:15:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Hello again
folks.
William Miller
here.
In a message
dated 96-01-04 14:26:19 EST, Clay Vaughn writes:
>I don't know
if I mentioned it, but a sequel of sorts was printed
>after Carl
Solomon's MISHAPS, PERHAPS, called MORE MISHAPS. I was
>lucky enough
to find copies of these a long time ago. And it's funny
>looking at
what the Library of Congress sees as among its official
>subject
headings: "Psychiatric Hospital Patients--United States--
>Biography" !!!!!
A humorous side
note is in order here: William
Burroughs' _The Cat Inside_
is listed under
"Pet Owners--United States--Biography" -----------
Sincerely,
William
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:34:08 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Interview with Neal Cassady's son
In-Reply-To: <960105101510_32523505@mail06.mail.aol.com>
from "William Miller"
at Jan 5, 96 10:15:11 am
I just put a
fairly extensive interview with John Cassady, Neal's 43-year-old
son, up on my web
site. I think it turned out pretty
interesting ... the
direct URL is
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/JCI/JCInterview.html, or you
can just go in
thru my Beat News or Neal Cassady pages.
Happy New Year
everyone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *
"Some people like to go
out dancing,
but other people like us, they
gotta work
And there's even some evil
mothers
who'll tell you life is just made
out of dirt
That women never really
faint
that villains always blink
their eyes
That children are the only ones
who blush
and that life is just a
dive"
-- Velvet Underground,
"Sweet Jane"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:57:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Unpublished Kerouac
The Fall 1995
issue of <<DHARMA beat>> magazine includes an unpublished
story by Jack
Kerouac, titled "My Sunset Birth."
This issue also
includes:
o Study of Kerouac's spirituality,
o Description of the beat exhibit at
the Whitney,
o Photo essay of Kerouac sites in San
Francisco,
o Review of selected Kerouac archives,
and
o Other reviews, info and stuff on
Kerouac and beat activites and
resources.
<<DHARMA
beat>>, is published twice a year by the non-profit Jack Kerouac
Subterrnaean
Information Society. It is dedicated to getting the word out
on Kerouac
activities, publications and organizations.
Available from:
The Jack Kerouac subterranean Information Society, Box
1753, Lowell, MA
01853-1753, USA. RATES: Sample $2.00, Subscription (2)
issues 5.00 US
per year (Foreign $7.00 US). Hardcopy only.
Thanks.
Mark Hemenway
Attila Gyenis
Editors
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:07:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Keroauc/beat events
We're starting to
get the Spring 1996 issue of <<DHARMA beat>> magazine
together. If
anyone is planning or knows of Kerouac or beat events,
organizations,
activities, clubs, etc. we would be happy to publish that
information for
you.
Send who, what,
when, where and how much (if appropriate) to me at this
address or snail
mail to the Jack Kerouac subterranean Information
Society, BOX
1753, Lowell, MA 01853-1753.
Thanks,
Mark Hemenway
Co-editor
mhemenway@s1.drc.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:10:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kris L. Dolberg"
<GreenTramp@AOL.COM>
Subject: filler: I win!!! :)
I WIN!!! :)
I hurt you?
Good, that was my
intention
You will remember
your first time
And I took it
from you
But my purpose
was planned
You fell in my
trap
You treated me
wrong
You disrespected
me
You lied
You snuck around
And thought I'd
be there always
Like a doll
You can play with
me when you want
And then drop me
And when you come
back I'll be ready and willing
I ain't like that
And I got my
revenge
I taught you a
lesson
You'll never
forget me
And maybe next
time you'll show your woman some respect
-Zoe LD
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:27:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kris L. Dolberg"
<GreenTramp@AOL.COM>
Subject: filler: Father, just remember.
FATHER, JUST
REMEMBER
You're so sweet
If only you could
remember
You have a
daughter
The one that's
sitting beside you
The one that's
always there
You know I'm here
You do care
but your blinded
You confuse me
You ignore me and
blow me off
Then you turn
around and act like I'm all you have
I know you care
Just remember
Please don't ever
forget me, father
-Zoe LD
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:45:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kris L. Dolberg"
<GreenTramp@AOL.COM>
Subject: filler: Love's Pain
LOVE'S PAIN
You say it's bad
to not love
But look at the
pain you're in
It's because of
love
The tears that
flow endlessly
It's because of
love
I don't love
I don't care
I'm happy
Look at me
I don't feel
love's pain
Maybe I'll love
later
I don't have time
now
-Zoe LD
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:02:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 1 Jan 1996 to 2 Jan
1996
Scattered
responses to list topics:
Regina
Weinreich's book on "poetics" not "prose": a good
distinction:
"poetics"
is a word that can link Kerouac with other theorists of "making"
(Greek poesis)
literary works in late 20th C (I think of poet Charles Olson,
whose
"field" approach has a lot of similarity with Kerouac's
improvs). I
used the word too
in my the title of my dissertation on Herman Melville to
talk about his
theories of making texts as well -- it has some currency in
lit crit these
days to describe prose writers' as well as poets' acts of
making.
Howard, do you
know when the Beat show will be in Minneapolis?
On Baraka:
there's a great video of him reading and being interviewed in the
Lannan Foundation
series, which is in many libraries. To
my mind, Baraka has
held firm to a
Marxist approach to the revolutionary agenda introduced by the
Beats, later
incorporated into 60s counter-culture. I
find his critique of
culture to be
very informed and not dismissable simply for being Marxist;
theoretical
Marxism was not foreclosed by the demise of the Soviet bloc, no
matter what
George Will etc. would have us think -- the Soviets had long
since
discontinued being Marxist, were totalitarian, or even (some contend)
state-controlled
capitalism. Or, to quote the rock band,
The Mekons: "How
can socialism
really be dead if it never even happened?"
On Naropa: If you
don't want to enroll there for a longer period or just want
a taste, Naropa
has a summer program (or at least they used to -- I haven't
been in touch
with them in a few years) which annually brings in the
still-living
heroes of American writing we've been talking about, as well as
many of the
better experimental American poets who were influenced by Beat
stuff (I think of
Clark Coolidge, for instance, who I saw read there) for
readings and
classes. I didn't attend Naropa, but did
the CU at Boulder
writing program,
and attended many of the summer Naropa events, many of which
were open to the
public for an admission charge. If
you're short of cash,
you can just hang
out (a popular pasttime in Boulder) and attend selected
events.
Has anyone on the
list actually _attended_ Naropa? What
was it like?
Peace,
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 03:03:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Naropa
Ted asked if
anyone had ever attended Naropa. I took a class there about the
Shambhala
tradition, but it too was a summer class, and I wasn't enrolled as
a full-time
student. My feelings about Naropa are mixed; I very much respect
what they're
trying to do, but I think they fall into the trappings many
academic
institutions do, which is letting their ego get in the way of their
compassion (this seems particularly problematic in a
Buddhist-founded
school). That was
just one - my - experience though; I
also knew a man who
got his M.A. from
the Transpersonal Psych. program there and he emerged with
excellent
counseling skills, and was very compassionate and mindful. He told
me that the application process for his program
was pretty rigorous, but not
in the
traditional academic sense. They put a lot of emphasis on personal
growth work, and
communication & participation skills, more so than academic
record (which I
don't suppose is such a big surprise). That's all I know.
Liz
(p.s. - Hi Clay)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:00:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 1 Jan 1996 to 2 Jan
1996
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:02:04 -0500
from <Notlep@AOL.COM>
A footnote to
Ted's posting: The Lannan foundation has
produced a number of fi
ne videos on
Beats and other poets. These videos are
made available to many li
braries free
through a grant from Lannan. Check your
local libraries.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 10:42:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Minneapolis and SF dates for Beat show
According to the
catalog, the "Beat Culture and the New America" show ends at
the Whitney on
Feb. 4, opens at the Walker in Minneapolis on June 2 - Sept.
15, then to the
de Young in San Francisco Oct. 5 - Dec. 29.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:28:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Minn/SF Dates for Beat Show
Greetings from
frozen Washington. Dammit, if its not
the freshmen Republican
assholes
"revolutionaries" to shut the city down its the weather!
Anyway, according
to many of you outside the beltway there was something
wrong with my
previous post re: future dates for the beat show currently at
the Whitney. Here goes:
through Feb. 4 -
Whitney, NYC
June 2 - Sept.
15, Walker Art Center, Minneapolis
Oct. 5 - Dec. 29,
deYoung, San Francisco
BTW - I'm helping
to promote a band, Outer Body Llama, and all of you near DC
should see them
at the 15 Minute Club this Tuesday, 1/9 - it will be time to
dig out by
then! E-Mail me directly for details.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:02:00 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: ccraig@CHATLINK.COM
Subject: Looking for.....
I am looking for
a communications group of persons who:
do not feel part
of the baby boomers;
are not old
enough to be WWIIers;
who have some of
the conservative, economical ideas of the
depression era parents who might have raised
children
before WWII;
I am having
trouble identifying with groups born after 1946.
please respond to
me at
ccraig@chatlink.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:14:19 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Big Sky Mind
A couple of weeks ago at a used book
store I picked up a book by Lafcadio
Hearn called
*Kwaidan: Stories and Studies of Strange Things*. Most of the
stories are from
Chinese and Japanese sources. One titled
"The Story of
Mimi-Nashi-Hoichi" includes a reference to the Buddhist
"Pragna-
Paramita-Hridaya-Sutra"
and includes this footnote: "Both the smaller and
larger sutras
called Pragna-Paramita (Transcendent Wisdom) have been
translated by the
late Professor Max Muller, and can be found in volume xlix.
of *The Sacred
Books of the East* ('Buddhist Mahayana Sutras'). -- Apropos of
the magical use
of the text, as described in this story, it is worth
remarking that
the subject of the sutra is the Doctrine of the Emptiness of
Forms, -- that is
to say, of the unreal character of all phenomena or noumena
. . . . ' Form is
emptiness; and emptiness is form. Emptiness is not
different from
form; form is not different from emptiness. What is form --
that is
emptiness. What is emptiness -- that is form . . . . ' "
I copied that down because I liked the
way it resonated in my mind. Then a
few days later I
was reading the Kerouac section of *Big Sky Mind* and came
across these
riffs or takes that Kerouac had done on that sutra. I'm not
trying to make a
point here, I just like the way these things sound, the way
old Jack played
with the words and concepts of the Transcendent Wisdom Sutra.
So here you go:
". . . Philip, there's no
difference between you and the tree and the fence,
different
appearances of the same (holy-if-you-will) empty essence. It is in
the Hridaya
Prajna Paramita, ie., like, the tree and the fence are emptiness,
the tree and the
fence are not different from emptiness, neither is emptiness
different from
the tree and the fence, indeed, emptiness is the tree & the
fence. Because
emptiness is everything and everything is emptiness. And even
emptiness is a
word, so, a prayer, the world, I mean the word emptiness is
emptiness, the
word emptiness is not different from emptiness, neither is
emptiness
different from the word emptiness, indeed, emptiness is the word
emptiness!"
(Letter to Philip Whalen)
"Gary here's what I hope to see
before I die. A whole bunch of Bhikkus are
sitting in the
open, one of them holds his juju beads and recites out loud,
while the others
follow bead by bead, he is reciting spontaneous prayers that
begin with the
big Buddha bead and run through the other wooden ones and the
two glass beads.
He goes, say, like this: 'Sitting in the open is the
emptiness of the
Buddha bead, sitting in the open is not different from the
emptiness of the
Buddha bead, neither is the emptiness of the Buddha bead
different from
sitting in the open, indeed, the emptiness of the Buddha bead,
is sitting in the
open . . . . confused as to what to pray now, is emptiness:
confused as to
what to pray now, is not different from emptiness, neither is
emptiness
different from being confused as to what to pray now, indeed,
emptiness is
being confused as to what to pray now' . . . (this on the first
regular wood
bead) (the others follow, fingering, listening) . . . (each has
its turn) (it
sometimes gets charming and amusing and yet there is that
continuous Praja
canceling out all attributes) . . . (The disciple comes to
the first
glassbead) . . . 'The dust in my dream last night, is emptiness of
the Ananda
glassbead; the dust of my dream last night is not different from
the emptiness of
the Ananda glassbead, neither is emptiness of the Ananda
glassbead
different from the dust of my dream last night, indeed, emptiness
of the Ananda
glassbead is the dust of my dream last night' . . . and so on.
I know this works
because it's worked for me, alone, with dogs, in my Twin
Tree Grove here,
every night for the past 6 weeks . . . 'The bowing weeds is
emptiness, the
bowing weeds is not different from emptiness, neither is
emptiness
different from the bowing weeds, indeed, emptiness is the bowing
weeds.' That
nothing ever happens, is emptiness; that nothing ever happens,
is not different
from emptiness; neither is emptiness different from that
nothing ever
happens; indeed, emptiness is that nothing ever happens . . . "
(Letter to Gary
Snyder)
Okay, I think I have typed myself
silly, which I believe is the idea -- a
way to help your
mind off yourself in this work. Any thoughts on all this?
The glass bead
stuff makes me think of Hermann Hesse and his Glass Bead Game.
All for now.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:08:38 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Richard Bradbury
<R.A.Bradbury%exeter.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET>
Subject: Re: greetings
Dear Dale
browsing the net
and came across your name. How are things?
Best wishes
Richard Bradbury
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:08:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Collectors?
I am interested in communicating with
those of you who collect Beat
lit and or ephemera. I am not a dealer.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:37:18 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@Aalborg U (AAU)"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Re: Big Sky Mind
On Tue, 9 Jan
1996 18:14:19 GMT,
Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org> wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago at a used book
store I picked up a book by
Lafcadio
>Hearn called
*Kwaidan: Stories and Studies of Strange Things*. Most of the
>stories are
from Chinese and Japanese sources. One
titled "The Story of
>Mimi-Nashi-Hoichi" includes a reference to the Buddhist
"Pragna-
>Paramita-Hridaya-Sutra"
and includes this footnote: "Both the smaller and
>larger sutras
called Pragna-Paramita (Transcendent Wisdom) have been
>translated by
the late Professor Max Muller, and can be found in volume xlix.
>of *The
Sacred Books of the East* ('Buddhist Mahayana Sutras'). -- Apropos of
>the magical
use of the text, as described in this story, it is worth
>remarking
that the subject of the sutra is the Doctrine of the Emptiness of
>Forms, --
that is to say, of the unreal character of all phenomena or noumena
>. . . . '
Form is emptiness; and emptiness is form. Emptiness is not
>different
from form; form is not different from emptiness. What is form --
>that is
emptiness. What is emptiness -- that is form . . . . ' "
>
> I copied that down because I liked the
way it resonated in my mind.
Then a
>few days
later I was reading the Kerouac section of *Big Sky Mind* and came
>across these
riffs or takes that Kerouac had done on that sutra. I'm not
>trying to
make a point here, I just like the way these things sound, the way
>old Jack
played with the words and concepts of the Transcendent Wisdom Sutra.
The letters Dan
is quoting from are also in the "Selected Letters" edited
by Ann Charters,
on pp. 546-550 and pp. 566-570, respectively...
Regards,
bs@AAU
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:16:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: Big Sky Mind
In a recent post,
Dan B. quoted a letter from Kerouac to
Gary Snyder-- it
had overtones of Buddhism (indeed, this
was mentioned in
the letter, I believe). Anyone familiar
with LaoTse's
_Tao Te King_ will also probably see many
similarities
between Kerouac's ideas and those discussed
by LaoTse (the
lightest thing is really the heaviest, etc.).
Dan B. also notes
that he thinks of Hermann Hesse's
_Glass Bead Game_
also in reference to the letter.
I am not sure
that Hesse's glass beads could be compared
to Kerouac's
here, ut the linguistic usage is no doubt
notable.
An interesting
question occurs to me (this list may or
not be the
platform for such): Just how
"beat" was
Hesse?? Although he preceded the "beat
generation"
writers by about
50 years (he was born in 1877), I wonder how
much of a
"beat influence" (i.e. Rimbaud, Whitman,
Dylan Thomas--
Ginsberg calls them "Secret Heroes") he
was. Hesse certainly possessed many of the traits
and ideals
that the Beat
Generation later expressed (I think).
Does anyone know
if Hesse receives much attention from
Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Burroughs.........? I would
appreciate
any feedback.
Trevor D. Smith-
University at Buffalo
German Dept.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:42:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Big Sky Mind
In a recent post,
Dan B. quoted a letter from Kerouac to
Gary Snyder-- it
had overtones of Buddhism (indeed, this
was mentioned in
the letter, I believe). Anyone familiar
with LaoTse's
_Tao Te King_ will also probably see many
similarities
between Kerouac's ideas and those discussed
by LaoTse (the
lightest thing is really the heaviest, etc.).
Dan B. also notes
that he thinks of Hermann Hesse's
_Glass Bead Game_
also in reference to the letter.
I am not sure
that Hesse's glass beads could be compared
to Kerouac's
here, ut the linguistic usage is no doubt
notable.
An interesting
question occurs to me (this list may or
not be the
platform for such): Just how
"beat" was
Hesse?? Although he preceded the "beat
generation"
writers by about
50 years (he was born in 1877), I wonder how
much of a
"beat influence" (i.e. Rimbaud, Whitman,
Dylan Thomas--
Ginsberg calls them "Secret Heroes") he
was. Hesse certainly possessed many of the traits
and ideals
that the Beat
Generation later expressed (I think).
Does anyone know
if Hesse receives much attention from
Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Burroughs.........? I would
appreciate
any feedback.
Trevor D. Smith-
University at Buffalo
German Dept.
Trevor,
I do recall a
reference to Hesse in my beat readings. My recollection is
that Hesse was
dismissed by the author (Kerouac?). If I can locate the
quote, I will
forward it to you.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:11:40 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Aimone
<joaimone@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: New discussion list
Comments: To:
abow0001@GOLD.TC.UMN.EDU
Please reproduce
this announcement freely.
Announcement:
Discussion list
for graduate students in the modern languages
E-Grad is
intended principally as a sheltered but open forum for the
concerns of
graduate students in the modern languages. It is maintained by
members of the
Graduate Student Caucus, an allied organization of the MLA.
As an allied
organization, GSC does not represent the MLA. Rather, it is a
group of its
members, who are graduate students. You do not need to be a
member of the MLA
or the GSC to subscribe to E-Grad.
1) Send a message
to
listproc@listproc.bgsu.edu
2) Leave
everything else blank except for a line in the message section
with:
subscribe e-grad firstname lastname
3) Shortly after
that, you'll get a welcome message which you might want
to save.
If you have problems or questions,
please feel free to e-mail me
(Alan Rea) at
alan@bgnet.bgsu.edu and I'll be more than happy to help.
--
Joe Aimone
Department of
English
University of
California, Davis
joaimone@ucdavis.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:11:48 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Max Croasdale DD-SP
<mcroasda@MADGE.COM>
Organization:
Madge Networks
Subject: Hesse/On the Road
In-Reply-To: <C301C74E01560C00>
Mark, Trevor,
I've recently
joined the list and thought that I might contribute to this
question. As far
as I remember Kerouac does mention Hesse in 'On the
Road'. I don't
know the exact quote (Steppenwolf?), but
I think it
occurs pretty
near the beginning of the book. I don't
have a copy of
'Road' with me so
I can't check but I hope this helps.
regards,
Max.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:32:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Hesse and Beat
Thanks for those
prompt replies in regard to Hesse
and Beat
literature. I will grab a copy of _On
the
Road_ and see if
I can locate that quote (or any,
by Kerouac). I would indeed be surprised if Kerouac
(or any writers
of the Beat Generation) dismisses
Hesse (they all
seem to share common goals and ideas),
but
Hesse-reception has varied greatly at different
times and in
different locations, so I suppose anything
might be
possible.
Hesse was
incredibly well-read and I did check to see
if he had written
any literary reviews (he wrote MANY!)
on any of the
Beat writers. Apparently, he never did.
Hesse was not
terribly productive in his final years
(he died in 1962)
and wasn't really that interested in
American literature
anyway. That may explain the
absence of any
Beat discussion on his part. I would
bet, however,
that Hesse was aware of writers like
Kerouac, Ginsberg
and Burroughs. I will continue to
search.
Keep me
posted. Thanks!!
Trevor D. Smith--
University of Buffalo
German Dept.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:59:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sonja Streuber
<shstreuber@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
In-Reply-To:
<01HZVPNEERE08WW3CQ@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
What an exciting
topic! Now, in contrast to Trevor,
though, I would
doubt that Hesse
was aware of the Beats at all. Judging
from his
psychology as
author and philosopher, I would rather think that he was
more into Kafka
(who read him in return), which shows in the end of
_Steppenwolf_,
and Brecht. And I would actually relate
the orientalism
that we find in
_Siddharta_ not so much to the appropriaton of Bhuddism
by the Beats,
either, but rather (judging from Hesses's 19th century
affiliations) to
Goethe's _West-Eastern Diwan_, or to the stuff that was
going on in the
British and French Decadence at that time.
Philosophically,
he (at least for me) tends more towards the 19th century
as well, and
_Steppenwolf_, in many parts, seems to be a rewriting of _Thus
Spoke
Zarathustra_ (Nietzsche). As for his
reviewing
activities, I am sure he has reviewed many European books, but
again, I really
doubt that he would have had anything to do with the
Beats. The America he knew was probably that of
Kafka's stories, or that
of the
Brecht-Weill connection (which means *much* earier).
The rereadings of
Hesse by Kerouac, Ginsberg, and friends is, I think,
something
completely different. Especially during
the 60s, 70s, and
early 80s (I
caught the tail end of it still), Hesse was just incredibly
popular worldwide. So, I would see his inclusion in _On the
Road_ rather
as a historical/
philosophical chroncling or as an attempt of Kerouac's
to situate his
book within a larger literary context.
Or, and this point
has been made by
various critics of Kerouac's, it points to an eclectic
nostalgia for
Romanticist moments.
Couldn't keep my
mouth shut on that one....
Sonjaa
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Sonja
Streuber * The arrogance associated with knowledge and
Department of
English * sensation lays a blinding fog over man's
eyes
University of
California * by instilling in him a most flattering
Davis, CA
95616 * estimation of this faculty of knowledge.
shstreuber@ucdavis.edu * (F. Nietzsche,
1873)
============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:35:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
My earlier recollection
is starting to come in to focus, although I still
have not located the source. It seems to
me that Kerouac was asked a
question about Hesse's view of Bhuddism in
the novel Siddhartha.
Kerouac's response suggested that Hesse
was not an authority on
Bhuddism. I might have read this in his
Paris Review interview with
Ted Berrigan and Aram Saroyan.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:05:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher C. Hayes"
<risny@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
The idea that one
can pass over social learning if it isn't to their liking
is exactly the
type of individualistic crap that lead to the beats
confusion in the
first place. Those born in an around the
beat era, were
few and far
between. What I mean to say, is that
there was a very low
birth rate at the
time. Due to their lack of numbers, the
beat ideas were
shunned, until
the boomers co-opted their Baccnalian sprite.
Even if you
discount the idea that social constructs lead to the isolation
of the beat
generation, you still must recognize the amazing pressure put
on them not to
conform -- and thus ironicly to conform in nonconformity.
The same pressure
gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
confusion
Damien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:10:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: filler: Love's Pain
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
> -Zoe LD
I enjoyed the
poems, but wondering if this is a name I should
recognize? either
as a list member or someone associated
w/ the beats that
my ignorance doesn't know..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:10:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Keroauc/beat events
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>We're
starting to get the Spring 1996 issue of <<DHARMA beat>> magazine
>together. If
anyone is planning or knows of Kerouac or beat events,
>organizations,
activities, clubs, etc. we would be happy to publish that
>information
for you.
[text deleted]
>Mark Hemenway
>Co-editor
>mhemenway@s1.drc.com
Who do or HOW do
we get subscription information to DHARMA beat?
If you can post that
here or send it personally I'd be greatful.
[Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM] Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:09:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher C. Hayes"
<risny@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
On Jan 03, 1996
11:02:31, 'Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>' wrote:
>"conformity
criticism"
Could you define
the above for me?
Thanks
Damien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:18:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Naropa
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Ted asked if
anyone had ever attended Naropa. I took a class there about
the
>Shambhala
tradition, but it too was a summer class, and I wasn't enrolled
as
>a full-time
student. My feelings about Naropa are mixed; I very much
respect
>what they're
trying to do, but I think they fall into the trappings many
>academic
institutions do, which is letting their ego get in the way of
their
>compassion
I have a similar
question on this strand.
I'm nearing my
graduation as an English/Theatre major w/ an emphasis in
Film.. hehe
(personal joke, though very much true). Anyhow, I'm curious to
know if: 1. Naropa offers an MA in Alternative
Fiction/Theatre/Poetry/Film,
2. IF there is even a
SCHOOL that offers such a study,
and
3. IF something similar
does exist, where might I find
that college?
[Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM] Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:27:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@cunyvm.csd.unb.ca>
In-Reply-To:
<199601112305.SAA03763@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Reeve at
da PEAK email: peak@uoguelph.ca
Guelph's Student
Magazine phone:
(519)824-4120 x8522
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 11 Jan
1996, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
>
> The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
> confusion
Notions of
individuality? What foolishness! How could they...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:59:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Blessings of Baraka?
>The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, >thus
confusion
And here I
thought confusion (and individuality) were natural aspects of the
human condition.
I'm glad someone
has the temerity to clear this up.
Luther Jett
I mean, _really_!
"Individualistic _crap_"?? What other kind of crap is
there?
LJ
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:16:30 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Glenn Davis <gdavis@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: Baraka
it occurs that
out of confusion, if not driven to suicidal angst, there is
the rare moment
of a solution to a problem which, forgive my
misunderstanding
if that is the case, though you certainly do possess that
if not
compassion, you may not have suffered
how cum?
gd
At 06:05 PM
1/11/96 -0500, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
>The idea that
one can pass over social learning if it isn't to their liking
>is exactly
the type of individualistic crap that lead to the beats
>confusion in
the first place. Those born in an around
the beat era, were
>few and far
between. What I mean to say, is that
there was a very low
>birth rate at
the time. Due to their lack of numbers,
the beat ideas were
>shunned,
until the boomers co-opted their Baccnalian sprite.
>
>Even if you
discount the idea that social constructs lead to the isolation
>of the beat
generation, you still must recognize the amazing pressure put
>on them not
to conform -- and thus ironicly to conform in nonconformity.
>The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
>confusion
>
>Damien
>
>
-SOURCES- eJournal - a division of DSO, Inc.
'Beyond Intelligence
-- Truth' (tm)
http://www.dso.com/sources/
601 Van Ness
Suite E3425
San Francisco,
Ca 94102
Fx.
415-775-3082 V. 415-775-9785
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:10:13 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON
<abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blessings of Baraka?
Individuality is
the result of interpretation of one's perpective
of their life
experience-phenomenological retention.
Confusion is the
result of not having enough information or the
defensive
reaction to not accepting personal responsibility for
decision-making.
But this is only
my individual interpretation given what facts
I have decided to
accept in my life.
Anybody dig on
"Mexico Blues"?
........................................James.......................
--
...driven to
madness,starving hysterical naked...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:21:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: conformity
I'm afraid I
can't agree with Damien. The pressure to
conform in the 1950s was
very real. There wasn't any pressure *not* to
conform. Those, like Ginsberg,
who did rebel
paid a very real price for it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:28:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Collectors?
Hi Mark:
I'm a collector
of Beat lit, etc. and hope to hear from you.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:15:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Collectors and Hesse
If
you would like to discuss beat collecting please contact me at
Fisher@Programart.com.
The following quote is from "Dharma
Lion" by Michael Schumacher, first
in wraps, Chap. 9 "Howl", p. 197
(reference is to Ginsberg):
"For his study of Buddhism he
examined Herman Hesse's novel,
"Siddhartha" which he judged to
be, nowhere in particular."
There is also a passing reference to HH in
Literary Outlaw, but it
refers to Timothy Leary's Castalia
Foundation based on a group of
mystic scientists in "The Glass Bead
Game." Although Burroughs opinion
was not expressed, he apparently did not
care much for Leary at the
time.
I could not find a reference to HH in the
Paris Review interview of
JK.
Has anyone read Ann and Sam Charters, book
about Mayakovsky, "I Love"?
I found some interesting similarities
between the Russian writers of
that era and the Beats. Has anyone written
about this influence?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:17:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Hesse (yet again!)
Thanks much for
all the responses to my Hesse query. I
have
poked around a
bit and have yet to find any proof that Hesse
did, in fact,
know of the Beat writers. Hesse
practiced an
odd ritual
however-- he never reviewed or wrote about works
that he didn't
like. Thus, it is quite possible he knew
of Kerouac and/or
Burroughs, but felt they were not worthy
of review
(!). I will continue my search and keep
you all
posted.
In terms of
Hesse's influence on the "Beat Generation"--
I am still
working on that too, but am sure that he had
some effect
(perhaps a negative one, as some here have
suggested). Hesse was highly regarded by Colin Wilson
(see _The
Outsider_), but he was, of course, British.
Fred Haines
(screenplay author of the "Ulysses" and
"Steppenwolf"
films) claims that Kerouac, in his search
for
transcendetalism, discovered Hesse. I
will look
into this.
Thanks again, and
keep me posted. I appreciate all of
your replies.
Trevor D. Smith--
University of Buffalo
German Dept.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 20:38:44 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
I'm thinking that
it was in *Big Sur* that Kerouac mentioned *Steppenwolf*. At
the Bixby Creek
cabin didn't he read *Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde* and then say
something about
it or some other book being much more interesting than
*Steppenwolf*?
I'll check my bookshelf later.
Regarding Hesse's
reviews and reading, he read Thomas Wolfe's *Look Homeward
Angel* and
reviewed it very favorably. Check out his book, *My Belief*, which
also has a review
of *The Catcher in the Rye* and some of his writing on
Buddha and Lao-
Tse. With Trevor, I'm guessing he was aware of the Beats but
was doing more
gardening than reviewing at the time. I
see him as sympatico
with the Beats
but not much of a direct influence. For one thing I don't
think there were
too many English language translations of his books until
the 1960s and
'70s.
Trevor, when I
get these postings they don't include e-mail address. If you
will send me
yours, I'd like to correspond further on this topic. That goes
for everyone else
too.
On the world wide
web there is some interesting material which I found by
doing a net
search for "Glass Bead Game."
Cheers.
Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:45:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Tangent and apology
At 06:05 PM
1/11/96 -0500, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
>The idea that
one can pass over social learning if it isn't to their liking
>is exactly
the type of individualistic crap that lead to the beats
>confusion in
the first place.
Excuse me if I'm
misinterpreting "social learning", but are you saying we
should do just
what society tells us, just to avoid confusion?
So, it's not the
pressure to conform that confuses one, but the "notion" that
there is
something intelligent within us that resists conformity? Your
thinking reminds
me of the logic of brainwashing, in which the unfortunate
subject is
eventually convinced that their resistance to the introduced
influence was the
cause of their confusion; a confusion in this case
deliberately set
up by the programmers for their own purposes. (Any
resemblance to
society is intended)
To paraphrase a
non-beat poet: to be yourself, in a world that wants you to
be someone else,
is to fight the hardest fight anyone ever fought and never
stop fighting.
> Those born
in an around the beat era, were
>few and far
between. What I mean to say, is that
there was a very >low
birth rate at the
time. Due to their lack of numbers, the
beat >ideas were
shunned, until
the boomers co-opted their Baccnalian sprite.
This does not
make sense. Is it supposed to, or are you trying to send us up?
An idea is either
accepted or not , by however many people.
>Even if you
discount the idea that social constructs lead to the isolation
of the beat
generation, you still must recognize the amazing >pressure put on
them not to
conform -- and thus ironicly to conform >in nonconformity.
Although the
pressure not to conform exists, I agree with Bill Gargan
that the beats
were under more pressure to conform.
>The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
>confusion
Successful
conditioning will lead to notions of certitude, however unfounded.
A certain amount
of confusion is not only to be tolerated but welcomed,
especially by
writers and artists and others who are trying to grow something
(a self,
perhaps?). Confusion can be a learning edge. Unless you want an
artistic
tradition like ancient Egypt's, that didn't change for thousands of
years. In which
case we should never have had that blossoming called the beat
generation, of
which at least several of us here are fond.
Jules (who
apologizes for breaking one of her new years resolutions:
not to be seduced
into discussions with youngsters grinding their
philosophical
axes on this list, when there is plenty of beat-related stuff
to discuss)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:05:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gary Gillman
<garym@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Hesse (yet again!)
At 03:17 PM
1/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks much
for all the responses to my Hesse query.
I have
>poked around
a bit and have yet to find any proof that Hesse
>did, in fact,
know of the Beat writers. Hesse
practiced an
>odd ritual
however-- he never reviewed or wrote about works
>that he
didn't like. Thus, it is quite possible
he knew
>of Kerouac
and/or Burroughs, but felt they were not worthy
>of review
(!). I will continue my search and keep
you all
>posted.
>
>In terms of
Hesse's influence on the "Beat Generation"--
>I am still
working on that too, but am sure that he had
>some effect
(perhaps a negative one, as some here have
>suggested). Hesse was highly regarded by Colin Wilson
>(see _The
Outsider_), but he was, of course, British.
>
>Fred Haines
(screenplay author of the "Ulysses" and
>"Steppenwolf"
films) claims that Kerouac, in his search
>for
transcendetalism, discovered Hesse. I
will look
>into this.
>
>Thanks again,
and keep me posted. I appreciate all of
>your replies.
>
>
>Trevor D.
Smith--
> University of Buffalo
> German Dept.
>
>
Interesting of
Trevor Smith to mention Colin Wilson re his original query on
the relationship
of Hesse and the Beats. In one of John Clennon Holmes (late
60`s) travel
essays, I believe the one on London, Holmes, when referring
endearingly but
disapprovingly to the emotional reserve for which the
British are
renowned, states that the Brits felt " burned by Colin Wilson ".
So, this suggests
some empathy between the Beat perspective ( and don`t
believe for a
minute that Holmes didn`t embody the Beat ethos - the
authentic one -
to the core) and Hesse, to whom Wilson felt a close empathy
as pointed out by
Trevor Smith. Am I stretching things? Maybe, but I don`t
think so.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:37:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rodney Lee Phillips
<philli31@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Collectors and Hesse
In-Reply-To: <9600128214.AA821481568@wok.programart.com>
from "Mark Fisher" at
Jan 12, 96 01:15:43 pm
Mark--
In regards to
your question concerning the Beats & Russian writers, see a
collection of
interviews called (I believe) <The Beat Generation and the
Russian New
Wave>. It was published by Ardis
Press in Ann Arbor in 1990.
Sorry, but I
can't remember the editor's name. The
book contains some
interesting stuff
on the connections between the Beats and their Russian
counterparts.
Best,
Rod Phillips
Dept of American Thought & Language
Michigan State
philli31@pilot.msu.edu
> > If you would like
to discuss beat
collecting please contact me at >
Fisher@Programart.com.
>
>
> The following quote is from "Dharma
Lion" by Michael Schumacher, first
> in wraps, Chap. 9 "Howl", p.
197 (reference is to Ginsberg):
>
> "For his study of Buddhism he
examined Herman Hesse's novel,
> "Siddhartha" which he judged to
be, nowhere in particular."
>
> There is also a passing reference to HH in
Literary Outlaw, but it
> refers to Timothy Leary's Castalia
Foundation based on a group of
> mystic scientists in "The Glass Bead
Game." Although Burroughs opinion
> was not expressed, he apparently did not
care much for Leary at the
> time.
>
> I could not find a reference to HH in the
Paris Review interview of
> JK.
>
> Has anyone read Ann and Sam Charters,
book about Mayakovsky, "I Love"?
> I found some interesting similarities
between the Russian writers of
> that era and the Beats. Has anyone
written about this influence?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:41:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: Blessings of Baraka?
Comments: To:
JAMES ATKERSON <abcad@aztec.asu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9601120710.AA06870@aztec.asu.edu>
On Fri, 12 Jan
1996, JAMES ATKERSON wrote:
> ...driven to
madness,starving hysterical naked...
"driven
to..."--"destroyed by..."?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:59:28 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON
<abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blessings of Baraka?
An exercise in
poetic license.
--
...driven to
madness,
starving
hysterical
naked...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:27:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Dead Beat
I recently came across a book by Hank
Harrison called "The Dead Book."
For those of you not familiar with it,
this book is a narrative
history of the Grateful Dead. It is also a
history of the California
counterculture with lots of references to
the Beats (Neal Cassady in
particular). Check it out.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:54:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Hesse and Burroughs
Hello folks.
there is, as has
been mentioned, a passing reference to HH in _Literary
Outlaw_, the Ted
Morgan bio of WSB.
There is no
reference to HH in the Barry Miles bio of WSB.
Let's hope
I'm taking good notes.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 08:34:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Linda Grimes
<00lsgrimes@BSUVC.BSU.EDU>
Subject: The Beat Ethos
Could someone
please explain what the Beat ethos is?
Thanks,
Linda Grimes 00lsgrimes@bsu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:37:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gary Gillman
<garym@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: The Beat Ethos
At 08:34 AM
1/13/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Could someone
please explain what the Beat ethos is?
>
>Thanks,
>Linda
Grimes 00lsgrimes@bsu.edu
>
May I suggest the
following as my understanding of the true Beat ethos: it
is simply (but no
less than) the upholding of the worth and distinctiveness
of the individual
and his spirit in (to borrow a memorable phrase of John
Clennon Holmes)
the " automated kaleidescope of our times"). Jack Kerouac
drew particularly
vibrant pictures of Beatness based on American models
ranging from Neal
Cassady to Gary Snyder to Harpo Marx to Charlie Parker.
True Beatness is,
as Kerouac said, " sympathetic", but it is also, as Jack
always insisted,
essentially apolitical. Jack rightly decried a vision of
Beats
"exuding transactions", and I think Alan Ginsberg recognizes this
now.
He said as much
in the recent documentary film made of his life. As for
drugs, they were
part of the revolution in manners which Beat culture helped
to bring about in
the 50`s, but as Jack wrote they were just a fad, a symbol
- the Beats`
equivalent of the Lost Generation`s champagne bottle entwined
in a silk
stocking.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:20:40 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: The Beat Ethos
"the magic
game of glad freedom"
-- JK,
*Big Sur*
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:39:55 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
I found the
reference on p.24 of my Bantam paperback edition of *Big Sur*:
"Long nights
simply thinking about the usefulness of that little wire
scourer, those
little yellow copper things you buy in supermarkets for 10
cents, all to me
infinitely more interesting than the stupid and senseless
'Steppenwolf'
novel in the shack which I read with a shrug . . ."
Again, I don't
think there's a direct link between Hesse and the Beats, but
there is an
indirect one through Thomas Wolfe and other writers. Hesse's
early novels
*Peter Camenzind*, *Knulp* and *Wandering* have certain
similarities to
Kerouac's work. In his book *The Novels of Hermann Hesse*,
Theodore
Ziolkowski talks about "The Roamantic Bildungsroman" which
"typically
displays an episodic structure that permits a broad exposure of
the hero to
contemporary cultural influences while deriving its coherence
from a central
focus on the inner growth of the youth toward an affirmation
of life."
That's a fair description of *Look Homeward, Angel* and *On the
Road* as well as
*Demian* and other Hesse novels.
By the way, I've
seen reference to an early Hesse book (1906) called *On the
Road* in some
translations.
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 16:13:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Megan Milard
<Sixgallery@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Beat Ethos
in your
definition of the beat ethos you mentioned a recently released
documentary of
Allen Ginsberg. Do you happen to know
the title/distributor
of the film? I would love to get my hands on it. thanks.
megan m.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:34:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 11 Jan 1996 to 12 Jan
1996
Julie - I made
the same resolution myself. Nice
post. Also, Bill.
I'd like to
repeat/reword a query that I had months ago in the context of
1940s-50s social
pressures. I'm working on a novel that
deals with an
imagined meeting
between Malcolm X and Jack K in NYC in the mid-forties.
Both were hanging around uptown jazz clubs in
the 40s around the time Bird &
Diz & company
were inventing bop (Diz called a tune "kerouac" because he
liked the sound
of the name!) and both were very influenced by jazz. The
other night, on
NPR, I heard an interview with Branford Marsalis that gives
me a clue into
why. He said that the best black minds
in America were jazz
musicians in the
40s; what else could they do? There was
no black
professional
class. If you were black and wanted to
see the world, you could
become a RR
porter, join the service, or become a jazz musician. Malcolm and
Jack (in his
rejection of white "success" football star-culture) both lived
variations of
this course and got into jazz (tho of course Malcolm then went
to jail and in
another direction -- but that's another topic).
Both, also,
in their
involvement with this black jazz culture of improvisation,
creativity &
criminality (socially defined), responded to these
African-American
geniuses: Bird, Diz, Monk, Lester Young, etc.
Ok, my
question. Is there anything that comes
to mind that you think I
should be reading,
listers? I've been mining this territory
already, but
please, feel free
to make what you might otherwise dismiss as "obvious"
suggestions of
texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, Howl. This
goes for the
Black context as well -- Billie Holiday's Lady Sings the Blues,
Baraka's Blues
People and Malcolm's Autobiography are the centers of this for
me, but anything
else you think of?
Is there a Black
Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
One more thing:
does anyone know if Dizzy's song "Kerouac" is available on
any CD? Which?
I've never heard it.
Best,
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:43:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Grauerholz
<Seward23@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat-L digest (blues)
Check out <Beneath
the Underdog>, Charles Mingus -- I remember Richard
Elovich and I had
William and Allen over to dinner one night, our apt. at 306
E. 6th St.,
Mingus was there, and Joel C. (Jody) Harris, guitarist and old
Coffeyville
friend, and I played a Skip James side, and Allen asked Mingus,
apropos the
falsetto of Skip J., "Now what do you think of that, Charlie?"
and Mingus said,
"Well ... it da blues." Which
was perfect.
You won't believe
me but this is a true story.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 17:57:12 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas McNamee <mcnamet@EOSC.OSSHE.EDU>
Subject: Recommended reading
In-Reply-To:
<960113203413_115704074@mail06.mail.aol.com> from "Ted
Pelton" at
Jan 13, 96 08:34:13 pm
>
> Ok, my
question. Is there anything that comes
to mind that you think I
> should be
reading, listers? I've been mining this
territory already, but
> please, feel
free to make what you might otherwise dismiss as "obvious"
> suggestions
of texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, Howl. This
> goes for the
Black context as well -- Billie Holiday's Lady Sings the Blues,
> Baraka's
Blues People and Malcolm's Autobiography are the centers of this for
> me, but
anything else you think of?
is sitting in the
open . . . . confused as to what to pray now, is emptiness:
confused as to
what to pray now, is not different from emptiness, neither is
emptiness
different from being confused as to what to pray now, indeed,
emptiness is
being confused as to what to pray now' . . . (this on the first
regular wood
bead) (the others follow, fingering, listening) . . . (each has
its turn) (it
sometimes gets charming and amusing and yet there is that
continuous Praja
canceling out all attributes) . . . (The disciple comes to
the first
glassbead) . . . 'The dust in my dream last night, is emptiness of
the Ananda
glassbead; the dust of my dream last night is not different from
the emptiness of
the Ananda glassbead, neither is emptiness of the Ananda
glassbead
different from the dust of my dream last night, indeed, emptiness
of the Ananda
glassbead is the dust of my dream last night' . . . and so on.
I know this works
because it's worked for me, alone, with dogs, in my Twin
Tree Grove here,
every night for the past 6 weeks . . . 'The bowing weeds is
emptiness, the
bowing weeds is not different from emptiness, neither is
emptiness
different from the bowing weeds, indeed, emptiness is the bowing
weeds.' That
nothing ever happens, is emptiness; that nothing ever happens,
is not different
from emptiness; neither is emptiness different from that
nothing ever
happens; indeed, emptiness is that nothing ever happens . . . "
(Letter to Gary
Snyder)
Okay, I think I have typed myself
silly, which I believe is the idea -- a
way to help your
mind off yourself in this work. Any thoughts on all this?
The glass bead
stuff makes me think of Hermann Hesse and his Glass Bead Game.
All for now.
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:08:38 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Richard Bradbury
<R.A.Bradbury%exeter.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET>
Subject: Re: greetings
Dear Dale
browsing the net
and came across your name. How are things?
Best wishes
Richard Bradbury
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:08:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Collectors?
I am interested in communicating with
those of you who collect Beat
lit
and or ephemera. I am not a dealer.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:37:18 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@Aalborg U (AAU)"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Re: Big Sky Mind
On Tue, 9 Jan
1996 18:14:19 GMT,
Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org> wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago at a used book
store I picked up a book by
Lafcadio
>Hearn called
*Kwaidan: Stories and Studies of Strange Things*. Most of the
>stories are
from Chinese and Japanese sources. One
titled "The Story of
>Mimi-Nashi-Hoichi" includes a reference to the Buddhist
"Pragna-
>Paramita-Hridaya-Sutra"
and includes this footnote: "Both the smaller and
>larger sutras
called Pragna-Paramita (Transcendent Wisdom) have been
>translated by
the late Professor Max Muller, and can be found in volume xlix.
>of *The
Sacred Books of the East* ('Buddhist Mahayana Sutras'). -- Apropos of
>the magical
use of the text, as described in this story, it is worth
>remarking
that the subject of the sutra is the Doctrine of the Emptiness of
>Forms, --
that is to say, of the unreal character of all phenomena or noumena
>. . . . '
Form is emptiness; and emptiness is form. Emptiness is not
>different
from form; form is not different from emptiness. What is form --
>that is
emptiness. What is emptiness -- that is form . . . . ' "
>
> I copied that down because I liked the
way it resonated in my mind.
Then a
>few days
later I was reading the Kerouac section of *Big Sky Mind* and came
>across these
riffs or takes that Kerouac had done on that sutra. I'm not
>trying to
make a point here, I just like the way these things sound, the way
>old Jack
played with the words and concepts of the Transcendent Wisdom Sutra.
The letters Dan
is quoting from are also in the "Selected Letters" edited
by Ann Charters,
on pp. 546-550 and pp. 566-570, respectively...
Regards,
bs@AAU
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:16:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: Big Sky Mind
In a recent post,
Dan B. quoted a letter from Kerouac to
Gary Snyder-- it
had overtones of Buddhism (indeed, this
was mentioned in
the letter, I believe). Anyone familiar
with LaoTse's
_Tao Te King_ will also probably see many
similarities
between Kerouac's ideas and those discussed
by LaoTse (the
lightest thing is really the heaviest, etc.).
Dan B. also notes
that he thinks of Hermann Hesse's
_Glass Bead Game_
also in reference to the letter.
I am not sure
that Hesse's glass beads could be compared
to Kerouac's
here, ut the linguistic usage is no doubt
notable.
An interesting
question occurs to me (this list may or
not be the
platform for such): Just how
"beat" was
Hesse?? Although he preceded the "beat
generation"
writers by about
50 years (he was born in 1877), I wonder how
much of a
"beat influence" (i.e. Rimbaud, Whitman,
Dylan Thomas--
Ginsberg calls them "Secret Heroes") he
was. Hesse certainly possessed many of the traits
and ideals
that the Beat
Generation later expressed (I think).
Does anyone know
if Hesse receives much attention from
Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Burroughs.........? I would
appreciate
any feedback.
Trevor D. Smith-
University at Buffalo
German Dept.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:42:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Big Sky Mind
In a recent post,
Dan B. quoted a letter from Kerouac to
Gary Snyder-- it
had overtones of Buddhism (indeed, this
was mentioned in
the letter, I believe). Anyone familiar
with LaoTse's
_Tao Te King_ will also probably see many
similarities
between Kerouac's ideas and those discussed
by LaoTse (the
lightest thing is really the heaviest, etc.).
Dan B. also notes
that he thinks of Hermann Hesse's
_Glass Bead Game_
also in reference to the letter.
I am not sure
that Hesse's glass beads could be compared
to Kerouac's
here, ut the linguistic usage is no doubt
notable.
An interesting
question occurs to me (this list may or
not be the
platform for such): Just how
"beat" was
Hesse?? Although he preceded the "beat generation"
writers by about
50 years (he was born in 1877), I wonder how
much of a
"beat influence" (i.e. Rimbaud, Whitman,
Dylan Thomas--
Ginsberg calls them "Secret Heroes") he
was. Hesse certainly possessed many of the traits
and ideals
that the Beat
Generation later expressed (I think).
Does anyone know
if Hesse receives much attention from
Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Burroughs.........? I would
appreciate
any feedback.
Trevor D. Smith-
University at Buffalo
German Dept.
Trevor,
I do recall a
reference to Hesse in my beat readings. My recollection is
that Hesse was
dismissed by the author (Kerouac?). If I can locate the
quote, I will
forward it to you.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:11:40 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Aimone
<joaimone@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: New discussion list
Comments: To:
abow0001@GOLD.TC.UMN.EDU
Please reproduce
this announcement freely.
Announcement:
Discussion list
for graduate students in the modern languages
E-Grad is
intended principally as a sheltered but open forum for the
concerns of
graduate students in the modern languages. It is maintained by
members of the
Graduate Student Caucus, an allied organization of the MLA.
As an allied
organization, GSC does not represent the MLA. Rather, it is a
group of its
members, who are graduate students. You do not need to be a
member of the MLA
or the GSC to subscribe to E-Grad.
1) Send a message
to
listproc@listproc.bgsu.edu
2) Leave
everything else blank except for a line in the message section
with:
subscribe e-grad firstname lastname
3) Shortly after
that, you'll get a welcome message which you might want
to save.
If you have problems or questions,
please feel free to e-mail me
(Alan Rea) at
alan@bgnet.bgsu.edu and I'll be more than happy to help.
--
Joe Aimone
Department of
English
University of
California, Davis
joaimone@ucdavis.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:11:48 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Max Croasdale DD-SP
<mcroasda@MADGE.COM>
Organization:
Madge Networks
Subject: Hesse/On the Road
In-Reply-To: <C301C74E01560C00>
Mark, Trevor,
I've recently
joined the list and thought that I might contribute to this
question. As far
as I remember Kerouac does mention Hesse in 'On the
Road'. I don't
know the exact quote (Steppenwolf?), but
I think it
occurs pretty
near the beginning of the book. I don't
have a copy of
'Road' with me so
I can't check but I hope this helps.
regards,
Max.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:32:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Hesse and Beat
Thanks for those
prompt replies in regard to Hesse
and Beat
literature. I will grab a copy of _On
the
Road_ and see if
I can locate that quote (or any,
by Kerouac). I would indeed be surprised if Kerouac
(or any writers
of the Beat Generation) dismisses
Hesse (they all
seem to share common goals and ideas),
but
Hesse-reception has varied greatly at different
times and in
different locations, so I suppose anything
might be
possible.
Hesse was
incredibly well-read and I did check to see
if he had written
any literary reviews (he wrote MANY!)
on any of the
Beat writers. Apparently, he never did.
Hesse was not
terribly productive in his final years
(he died in 1962)
and wasn't really that interested in
American literature
anyway. That may explain the
absence of any
Beat discussion on his part. I would
bet, however,
that Hesse was aware of writers like
Kerouac, Ginsberg
and Burroughs. I will continue to
search.
Keep me
posted. Thanks!!
Trevor D. Smith--
University of Buffalo
German Dept.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:59:14 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sonja Streuber
<shstreuber@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
In-Reply-To:
<01HZVPNEERE08WW3CQ@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
What an exciting
topic! Now, in contrast to Trevor,
though, I would
doubt that Hesse
was aware of the Beats at all. Judging
from his
psychology as
author and philosopher, I would rather think that he was
more into Kafka
(who read him in return), which shows in the end of
_Steppenwolf_,
and Brecht. And I would actually relate
the orientalism
that we find in
_Siddharta_ not so much to the appropriaton of Bhuddism
by the Beats,
either, but rather (judging from Hesses's 19th century
affiliations) to
Goethe's _West-Eastern Diwan_, or to the stuff that was
going on in the
British and French Decadence at that time.
Philosophically,
he (at least for me) tends more towards the 19th century
as well, and
_Steppenwolf_, in many parts, seems to be a rewriting of _Thus
Spoke
Zarathustra_ (Nietzsche). As for his
reviewing
activities, I am sure he has reviewed many European books, but
again, I really
doubt that he would have had anything to do with the
Beats. The America he knew was probably that of
Kafka's stories, or that
of the
Brecht-Weill connection (which means *much* earier).
The rereadings of
Hesse by Kerouac, Ginsberg, and friends is, I think,
something
completely different. Especially during
the 60s, 70s, and
early 80s (I
caught the tail end of it still), Hesse was just incredibly
popular
worldwide. So, I would see his inclusion
in _On the Road_ rather
as a historical/
philosophical chroncling or as an attempt of Kerouac's
to situate his
book within a larger literary context.
Or, and this point
has been made by
various critics of Kerouac's, it points to an eclectic
nostalgia for
Romanticist moments.
Couldn't keep my
mouth shut on that one....
Sonjaa
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Sonja
Streuber * The arrogance associated with knowledge and
Department of
English * sensation lays a blinding fog over man's
eyes
University of
California * by instilling in him a most flattering
Davis, CA
95616 * estimation of this faculty of knowledge.
shstreuber@ucdavis.edu * (F. Nietzsche,
1873)
============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:35:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
My earlier recollection
is starting to come in to focus, although I still
have not located the source. It seems to
me that Kerouac was asked a
question about Hesse's view of Bhuddism in
the novel Siddhartha.
Kerouac's response suggested that Hesse was
not an authority on
Bhuddism. I might have read this in his
Paris Review interview with
Ted Berrigan and Aram Saroyan.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:05:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher C. Hayes"
<risny@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
The idea that one
can pass over social learning if it isn't to their liking
is exactly the
type of individualistic crap that lead to the beats
confusion in the
first place. Those born in an around the
beat era, were
few and far
between. What I mean to say, is that
there was a very low
birth rate at the
time. Due to their lack of numbers, the
beat ideas were
shunned, until
the boomers co-opted their Baccnalian sprite.
Even if you
discount the idea that social constructs lead to the isolation
of the beat
generation, you still must recognize the amazing pressure put
on them not to
conform -- and thus ironicly to conform in nonconformity.
The same pressure
gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
confusion
Damien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:10:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: filler: Love's Pain
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
> -Zoe LD
I enjoyed the
poems, but wondering if this is a name I should
recognize? either
as a list member or someone associated
w/ the beats that
my ignorance doesn't know..
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:10:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Keroauc/beat events
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>We're
starting to get the Spring 1996 issue of <<DHARMA beat>> magazine
>together. If
anyone is planning or knows of Kerouac or beat events,
>organizations,
activities, clubs, etc. we would be happy to publish that
>information
for you.
[text deleted]
>Mark Hemenway
>Co-editor
>mhemenway@s1.drc.com
Who do or HOW do
we get subscription information to DHARMA beat?
If you can post
that here or send it personally I'd be greatful.
[Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM] Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:09:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher C. Hayes"
<risny@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Baraka
On Jan 03, 1996
11:02:31, 'Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>' wrote:
>"conformity
criticism"
Could you define
the above for me?
Thanks
Damien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:18:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Naropa
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Ted asked if
anyone had ever attended Naropa. I took a class there about
the
>Shambhala
tradition, but it too was a summer class, and I wasn't enrolled
as
>a full-time
student. My feelings about Naropa are mixed; I very much
respect
>what they're
trying to do, but I think they fall into the trappings many
>academic
institutions do, which is letting their ego get in the way of
their
>compassion
I have a similar
question on this strand.
I'm nearing my
graduation as an English/Theatre major w/ an emphasis in
Film.. hehe
(personal joke, though very much true). Anyhow, I'm curious to
know if: 1. Naropa offers an MA in Alternative
Fiction/Theatre/Poetry/Film,
2. IF there is even a
SCHOOL that offers such a study,
and
3. IF something similar
does exist, where might I find
that college?
[Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM] Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:27:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: Baraka
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@cunyvm.csd.unb.ca>
In-Reply-To:
<199601112305.SAA03763@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Reeve at
da PEAK email: peak@uoguelph.ca
Guelph's Student
Magazine phone:
(519)824-4120 x8522
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 11 Jan
1996, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
>
> The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
> confusion
Notions of
individuality? What foolishness! How could they...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:59:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Blessings of Baraka?
>The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, >thus
confusion
And here I
thought confusion (and individuality) were natural aspects of the
human condition.
I'm glad someone
has the temerity to clear this up.
Luther Jett
I mean, _really_!
"Individualistic _crap_"?? What other kind of crap is
there?
LJ
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:16:30 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Glenn Davis <gdavis@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: Baraka
it occurs that
out of confusion, if not driven to suicidal angst, there is
the rare moment
of a solution to a problem which, forgive my
misunderstanding
if that is the case, though you certainly do possess that
if not
compassion, you may not have suffered
how cum?
gd
At 06:05 PM
1/11/96 -0500, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
>The idea that
one can pass over social learning if it isn't to their liking
>is exactly
the type of individualistic crap that lead to the beats
>confusion in
the first place. Those born in an around
the beat era, were
>few and far
between. What I mean to say, is that
there was a very low
>birth rate at
the time. Due to their lack of numbers,
the beat ideas were
>shunned,
until the boomers co-opted their Baccnalian sprite.
>
>Even if you
discount the idea that social constructs lead to the isolation
>of the beat
generation, you still must recognize the amazing pressure put
>on them not
to conform -- and thus ironicly to conform in nonconformity.
>The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
>confusion
>
>Damien
>
>
-SOURCES- eJournal - a division of DSO, Inc.
'Beyond Intelligence
-- Truth' (tm)
http://www.dso.com/sources/
601 Van Ness
Suite E3425
San Francisco,
Ca 94102
Fx.
415-775-3082 V. 415-775-9785
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:10:13 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON
<abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blessings of Baraka?
Individuality is
the result of interpretation of one's perpective
of their life
experience-phenomenological retention.
Confusion is the
result of not having enough information or the
defensive
reaction to not accepting personal responsibility for
decision-making.
But this is only
my individual interpretation given what facts
I have decided to
accept in my life.
Anybody dig on
"Mexico Blues"?
........................................James.......................
--
...driven to
madness,starving hysterical naked...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:21:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: conformity
I'm afraid I
can't agree with Damien. The pressure to
conform in the 1950s was
very real. There wasn't any pressure *not* to
conform. Those, like Ginsberg,
who did rebel
paid a very real price for it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:28:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Collectors?
Hi Mark:
I'm a collector
of Beat lit, etc. and hope to hear from you.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:15:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Collectors and Hesse
If you would like to discuss beat
collecting please contact me at
Fisher@Programart.com.
The following quote is from "Dharma
Lion" by Michael Schumacher, first
in wraps, Chap. 9 "Howl", p. 197
(reference is to Ginsberg):
"For his study of Buddhism he examined
Herman Hesse's novel,
"Siddhartha" which he judged to
be, nowhere in particular."
There is also a passing reference to HH in
Literary Outlaw, but it
refers to Timothy Leary's Castalia
Foundation based on a group of
mystic scientists in "The Glass Bead
Game." Although Burroughs opinion
was not expressed, he apparently did not
care much for Leary at the
time.
I could not find a reference to HH in the
Paris Review interview of
JK.
Has anyone read Ann and Sam Charters, book
about Mayakovsky, "I Love"?
I found some interesting similarities
between the Russian writers of
that era and the Beats. Has anyone written
about this influence?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:17:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Hesse (yet again!)
Thanks much for
all the responses to my Hesse query. I
have
poked around a
bit and have yet to find any proof that Hesse
did, in fact,
know of the Beat writers. Hesse
practiced an
odd ritual
however-- he never reviewed or wrote about works
that he didn't
like. Thus, it is quite possible he knew
of Kerouac and/or
Burroughs, but felt they were not worthy
of review
(!). I will continue my search and keep
you all
posted.
In terms of
Hesse's influence on the "Beat Generation"--
I am still
working on that too, but am sure that he had
some effect
(perhaps a negative one, as some here have
suggested). Hesse was highly regarded by Colin Wilson
(see _The
Outsider_), but he was, of course, British.
Fred Haines
(screenplay author of the "Ulysses" and
"Steppenwolf"
films) claims that Kerouac, in his search
for
transcendetalism, discovered Hesse. I
will look
into this.
Thanks again, and
keep me posted. I appreciate all of
your replies.
Trevor D. Smith--
University of Buffalo
German Dept.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 20:38:44 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
I'm thinking that
it was in *Big Sur* that Kerouac mentioned *Steppenwolf*. At
the Bixby Creek
cabin didn't he read *Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde* and then say
something about
it or some other book being much more interesting than
*Steppenwolf*?
I'll check my bookshelf later.
Regarding Hesse's
reviews and reading, he read Thomas Wolfe's *Look Homeward
Angel* and
reviewed it very favorably. Check out his book, *My Belief*, which
also has a review
of *The Catcher in the Rye* and some of his writing on
Buddha and Lao-
Tse. With Trevor, I'm guessing he was aware of the Beats but
was doing more
gardening than reviewing at the time. I
see him as sympatico
with the Beats
but not much of a direct influence. For one thing I don't
think there were
too many English language translations of his books until
the 1960s and
'70s.
Trevor, when I
get these postings they don't include e-mail address. If you
will send me
yours, I'd like to correspond further on this topic. That goes
for everyone else
too.
On the world wide
web there is some interesting material which I found by
doing a net
search for "Glass Bead Game."
Cheers.
Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:45:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Tangent and apology
At 06:05 PM
1/11/96 -0500, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
>The idea that
one can pass over social learning if it isn't to their liking
>is exactly
the type of individualistic crap that lead to the beats
>confusion in
the first place.
Excuse me if I'm
misinterpreting "social learning", but are you saying we
should do just
what society tells us, just to avoid confusion?
So, it's not the
pressure to conform that confuses one, but the "notion" that
there is
something intelligent within us that resists conformity? Your
thinking reminds
me of the logic of brainwashing, in which the unfortunate
subject is
eventually convinced that their resistance to the introduced
influence was the
cause of their confusion; a confusion in this case
deliberately set
up by the programmers for their own purposes. (Any
resemblance to
society is intended)
To paraphrase a
non-beat poet: to be yourself, in a world that wants you to
be someone else,
is to fight the hardest fight anyone ever fought and never
stop fighting.
> Those born
in an around the beat era, were
>few and far
between. What I mean to say, is that
there was a very >low
birth rate at the
time. Due to their lack of numbers, the
beat >ideas were
shunned, until
the boomers co-opted their Baccnalian sprite.
This does not
make sense. Is it supposed to, or are you trying to send us up?
An idea is either
accepted or not , by however many people.
>Even if you
discount the idea that social constructs lead to the isolation
of the beat
generation, you still must recognize the amazing >pressure put on
them not to
conform -- and thus ironicly to conform >in nonconformity.
Although the
pressure not to conform exists, I agree with Bill Gargan
that the beats
were under more pressure to conform.
>The same
pressure gives rise to notions of individuality, and, thsu
>confusion
Successful
conditioning will lead to notions of certitude, however unfounded.
A certain amount
of confusion is not only to be tolerated but welcomed,
especially by
writers and artists and others who are trying to grow something
(a self,
perhaps?). Confusion can be a learning edge. Unless you want an
artistic
tradition like ancient Egypt's, that didn't change for thousands of
years. In which
case we should never have had that blossoming called the beat
generation, of
which at least several of us here are fond.
Jules (who
apologizes for breaking one of her new years resolutions:
not to be seduced
into discussions with youngsters grinding their
philosophical
axes on this list, when there is plenty of beat-related stuff
to discuss)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:05:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gary Gillman
<garym@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Hesse (yet again!)
At 03:17 PM
1/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks much
for all the responses to my Hesse query.
I have
>poked around
a bit and have yet to find any proof that Hesse
>did, in fact,
know of the Beat writers. Hesse
practiced an
>odd ritual
however-- he never reviewed or wrote about works
>that he
didn't like. Thus, it is quite possible
he knew
>of Kerouac
and/or Burroughs, but felt they were not worthy
>of review
(!). I will continue my search and keep
you all
>posted.
>
>In terms of
Hesse's influence on the "Beat Generation"--
>I am still
working on that too, but am sure that he had
>some effect
(perhaps a negative one, as some here have
>suggested). Hesse was highly regarded by Colin Wilson
>(see _The
Outsider_), but he was, of course, British.
>
>Fred Haines
(screenplay author of the "Ulysses" and
>"Steppenwolf"
films) claims that Kerouac, in his search
>for
transcendetalism, discovered Hesse. I
will look
>into this.
>
>Thanks again,
and keep me posted. I appreciate all of
>your replies.
>
>
>Trevor D.
Smith--
> University of Buffalo
> German Dept.
>
>
Interesting of
Trevor Smith to mention Colin Wilson re his original query on
the relationship
of Hesse and the Beats. In one of John Clennon Holmes (late
60`s) travel
essays, I believe the one on London, Holmes, when referring
endearingly but
disapprovingly to the emotional reserve for which the
British are
renowned, states that the Brits felt " burned by Colin Wilson ".
So, this suggests
some empathy between the Beat perspective ( and don`t
believe for a
minute that Holmes didn`t embody the Beat ethos - the
authentic one -
to the core) and Hesse, to whom Wilson felt a close empathy
as pointed out by
Trevor Smith. Am I stretching things? Maybe, but I don`t
think so.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:37:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rodney Lee Phillips
<philli31@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Collectors and Hesse
In-Reply-To: <9600128214.AA821481568@wok.programart.com>
from "Mark Fisher" at
Jan 12, 96 01:15:43 pm
Mark--
In regards to
your question concerning the Beats & Russian writers, see a
collection of
interviews called (I believe) <The Beat Generation and the
Russian New
Wave>. It was published by Ardis
Press in Ann Arbor in 1990.
Sorry, but I
can't remember the editor's name. The
book contains some
interesting stuff
on the connections between the Beats and their Russian
counterparts.
Best,
Rod
Phillips
Dept of American Thought & Language
Michigan State
philli31@pilot.msu.edu
> > If you would like
to discuss beat
collecting please contact me at >
Fisher@Programart.com.
>
>
> The following quote is from "Dharma
Lion" by Michael Schumacher, first
> in wraps, Chap. 9 "Howl", p.
197 (reference is to Ginsberg):
>
> "For his study of Buddhism he
examined Herman Hesse's novel,
> "Siddhartha" which he judged to
be, nowhere in particular."
>
> There is also a passing reference to HH
in Literary Outlaw, but it
> refers to Timothy Leary's Castalia
Foundation based on a group of
> mystic scientists in "The Glass Bead
Game." Although Burroughs opinion
> was not expressed, he apparently did not
care much for Leary at the
> time.
>
> I could not find a reference to HH in the
Paris Review interview of
> JK.
>
> Has anyone read Ann and Sam Charters,
book about Mayakovsky, "I Love"?
> I found some interesting similarities
between the Russian writers of
> that era and the Beats. Has anyone
written about this influence?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:41:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: Blessings of Baraka?
Comments: To:
JAMES ATKERSON <abcad@aztec.asu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9601120710.AA06870@aztec.asu.edu>
On Fri, 12 Jan
1996, JAMES ATKERSON wrote:
> ...driven to
madness,starving hysterical naked...
"driven
to..."--"destroyed by..."?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:59:28 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON
<abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blessings of Baraka?
An exercise in
poetic license.
--
...driven to
madness,
starving
hysterical
naked...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:27:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Dead Beat
I recently came across a book by Hank
Harrison called "The Dead Book."
For those of you not familiar with it,
this book is a narrative
history of the Grateful Dead. It is also a
history of the California
counterculture with lots of references to
the Beats (Neal Cassady in
particular). Check it out.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:54:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Hesse and Burroughs
Hello folks.
there is, as has
been mentioned, a passing reference to HH in _Literary
Outlaw_, the Ted
Morgan bio of WSB.
There is no
reference to HH in the Barry Miles bio of WSB.
Let's hope
I'm taking good notes.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 08:34:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Linda Grimes
<00lsgrimes@BSUVC.BSU.EDU>
Subject: The Beat Ethos
Could someone
please explain what the Beat ethos is?
Thanks,
Linda Grimes 00lsgrimes@bsu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:37:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gary Gillman
<garym@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: The Beat Ethos
At 08:34 AM
1/13/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Could someone
please explain what the Beat ethos is?
>
>Thanks,
>Linda
Grimes 00lsgrimes@bsu.edu
>
May I suggest the
following as my understanding of the true Beat ethos: it
is simply (but no
less than) the upholding of the worth and distinctiveness
of the individual
and his spirit in (to borrow a memorable phrase of John
Clennon Holmes)
the " automated kaleidescope of our times"). Jack Kerouac
drew particularly
vibrant pictures of Beatness based on American models
ranging from Neal
Cassady to Gary Snyder to Harpo Marx to Charlie Parker.
True Beatness is,
as Kerouac said, " sympathetic", but it is also, as Jack
always insisted,
essentially apolitical. Jack rightly decried a vision of
Beats
"exuding transactions", and I think Alan Ginsberg recognizes this
now.
He said as much
in the recent documentary film made of his life. As for
drugs, they were
part of the revolution in manners which Beat culture helped
to bring about in
the 50`s, but as Jack wrote they were just a fad, a symbol
- the Beats`
equivalent of the Lost Generation`s champagne bottle entwined
in a silk
stocking.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:20:40 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: The Beat Ethos
"the magic
game of glad freedom"
-- JK,
*Big Sur*
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 19:39:55 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
I found the
reference on p.24 of my Bantam paperback edition of *Big Sur*:
"Long nights
simply thinking about the usefulness of that little wire
scourer, those
little yellow copper things you buy in supermarkets for 10
cents, all to me
infinitely more interesting than the stupid and senseless
'Steppenwolf'
novel in the shack which I read with a shrug . . ."
Again, I don't
think there's a direct link between Hesse and the Beats, but
there is an
indirect one through Thomas Wolfe and other writers. Hesse's
early novels
*Peter Camenzind*, *Knulp* and *Wandering* have certain
similarities to
Kerouac's work. In his book *The Novels of Hermann Hesse*,
Theodore
Ziolkowski talks about "The Roamantic Bildungsroman" which
"typically
displays an episodic structure that permits a broad exposure of
the hero to
contemporary cultural influences while deriving its coherence
from a central
focus on the inner growth of the youth toward an affirmation
of life."
That's a fair description of *Look Homeward, Angel* and *On the
Road* as well as
*Demian* and other Hesse novels.
By the way, I've
seen reference to an early Hesse book (1906) called *On the
Road* in some
translations.
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 16:13:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Megan Milard
<Sixgallery@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Beat Ethos
in your
definition of the beat ethos you mentioned a recently released
documentary of
Allen Ginsberg. Do you happen to know
the title/distributor
of the film? I would love to get my hands on it. thanks.
megan m.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:34:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 11 Jan 1996 to 12 Jan
1996
Julie - I made
the same resolution myself. Nice
post. Also, Bill.
I'd like to
repeat/reword a query that I had months ago in the context of
1940s-50s social
pressures. I'm working on a novel that
deals with an
imagined meeting
between Malcolm X and Jack K in NYC in the mid-forties.
Both were hanging around uptown jazz clubs in
the 40s around the time Bird &
Diz & company
were inventing bop (Diz called a tune "kerouac" because he
liked the sound
of the name!) and both were very influenced by jazz. The
other night, on
NPR, I heard an interview with Branford Marsalis that gives
me a clue into
why. He said that the best black minds
in America were jazz
musicians in the
40s; what else could they do? There was
no black
professional
class. If you were black and wanted to
see the world, you could
become a RR
porter, join the service, or become a jazz musician. Malcolm and
Jack (in his
rejection of white "success" football star-culture) both lived
variations of
this course and got into jazz (tho of course Malcolm then went
to jail and in
another direction -- but that's another topic).
Both, also,
in their
involvement with this black jazz culture of improvisation,
creativity &
criminality (socially defined), responded to these
African-American
geniuses: Bird, Diz, Monk, Lester Young, etc.
Ok, my
question. Is there anything that comes
to mind that you think I
should be reading,
listers? I've been mining this territory
already, but
please, feel free
to make what you might otherwise dismiss as "obvious"
suggestions of
texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, Howl. This
goes for the
Black context as well -- Billie Holiday's Lady Sings the Blues,
Baraka's Blues
People and Malcolm's Autobiography are the centers of this for
me, but anything
else you think of?
Is there a Black
Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
One more thing:
does anyone know if Dizzy's song "Kerouac" is available on
any CD? Which?
I've never heard it.
Best,
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 20:43:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Grauerholz
<Seward23@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat-L digest (blues)
Check out <Beneath
the Underdog>, Charles Mingus -- I remember Richard
Elovich and I had
William and Allen over to dinner one night, our apt. at 306
E. 6th St.,
Mingus was there, and Joel C. (Jody) Harris, guitarist and old
Coffeyville
friend, and I played a Skip James side, and Allen asked Mingus,
apropos the
falsetto of Skip J., "Now what do you think of that, Charlie?"
and Mingus said,
"Well ... it da blues." Which
was perfect.
You won't believe
me but this is a true story.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 17:57:12 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas McNamee
<mcnamet@EOSC.OSSHE.EDU>
Subject: Recommended reading
In-Reply-To:
<960113203413_115704074@mail06.mail.aol.com> from "Ted
Pelton" at
Jan 13, 96 08:34:13 pm
>
> Ok, my
question. Is there anything that comes
to mind that you think I
> should be
reading, listers? I've been mining this
territory already, but
> please, feel
free to make what you might otherwise dismiss as "obvious"
> suggestions
of texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, Howl. This
> goes for the
Black context as well -- Billie Holiday's Lady Sings the Blues,
> Baraka's
Blues People and Malcolm's Autobiography are the centers of this for
> me, but
anything else you think of?
>
> Is there a
Black Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
> Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
Check out, if you haven't, Norman
Mailer's seminal essay, "The White
Negro"(1957)
(found in his _Advertisements for Myself_ (1959)) for an
early discussion
of white hipness vis a vis the American Negro experience.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 17:31:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Since you asked....
> Is there
anything that comes to mind that you think I
>should be
reading, listers? I've been mining this
territory already, >but
please, feel free
to make what you might otherwise dismiss as >"obvious"
>suggestions
of texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, >Howl.
Ted: Since you're
interested in the connections between Kerouac and black
culture, I
suggest reading The Subterraneans, concerning his relationship
with black beat
woman "Mardou Fox" or Ilene May.
One of the reasons I can
never stay mad at
Kerouac over his treatment of women is the tension that
comes through in
this book: Because at every point where the narrator feels
disgust at
Mardou's otherness -
her womanness and
blackness - there is also this deep sadness
and shame about
having the disgust. (In my early feminist days, my attitude
was "so
what? he was sad about everything!") Of course, there is a lot more
to the book than
this..
It's one of my
favorite Kerouac books ...right after Visions of Gerard, which
is so beautifully
written, and can give you a feeling of how Buddhism and
Catholicism
mingled in Kerouac's psyche.
(By the way, I am
completely wrapped up in Charles Olson's work and bio these
days after having
started with him this fall via Ed Sanders...mention this
because I know
you appreciate Olson.)
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 19:59:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 11 Jan 1996 to 12 Jan
1996
In-Reply-To:
<960113203413_115704074@mail06.mail.aol.com>
On Sat, 13 Jan
1996, Ted Pelton wrote:
> Is there a
Black Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
> Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
Might you mean
black whiteness, or is that the same thing (but really,
if there can be
one the other should be the opposite), or another
possibility? That is, I presume you're talking about one
of these
groups taking on
the other's characteristics. Thinking
again, my guess
is that
regardless of wording you meant the taking on of black
characteristics
by whites. Is this what you meant?
> One more
thing: does anyone know if Dizzy's song "Kerouac" is available on
> any CD? Which?
I've never heard it.
I'm sure I've
seen it on CD, but don't know what one--sorry.
Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:16:43 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON
<abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 11 Jan 1996 to 12 Jan
1996
On Sat.13 Jan.
1996, Ted Pelton asked about "Beat,Black White-
ness".
Is this meant to
be interpreted as whites sharing a existential
phenomenology
with blacks?
I think what
Kerouac (among others) shared not only with the bla-
cks,the
mexicans,the homeless,the mad,the dope-addicted was a
feeling of being
unacculterated and disesteemed in the life and
times of 50's
America.
So, in short my
answer is yes there was a shared existential
phenomenological
philosophy.
--
of Course life
being just a Reflex you know since Everything is
Relative or to
sum it ALL UP god being Dead(not to mention in
Terred) LONG LIVE
that Upwardlooking Serene Illustrious and Lord
of
Creation,MAN.........................................e.e.c.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:50:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dead Beat
Harrison's book
about the Dead was the first, but I have always found it
disjointed and,
my impression is that he exaggerated his connections with the
band. (BTW he is Courtney Love's father).
I found Rock
Scully's book, "Living with the Dead" to be pretty informative,
very funny and
sometimes quite sad. Scully has his
detractors, but he was a
real
insider. There are several references to
Jack Kerouac's influence upon
Garcia. Scully's book, IMHO, is the first
"real" book about Garcia -- the
first the
penetrate what gradually became a formidable public relations
machine. I don't say that in a particularily negative
sense. Arguably, one
of my heros,
Allen Ginsburg is one of the great PR persons of the century.
His standing as a
truely great poet is not a matter for serious argument (I
hope Norman
Podheritz reads that and has a fit).
For the last 10
years or so, Dennis McNally, author of a fine Kerouac bio
"Desolate
Angel", still in print, was the spokesperson for the Dead. I
understyand that
he will write the definitive book of the latter years of the
band, and perhaps
of the early years too. I hope he won't
pull his punches.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:48:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re: Recommended reading
>
> Ok, my
question. Is there anything that comes
to mind that you think I
> should be
reading, listers? I've been mining this
territory already, but
> please, feel
free to make what you might otherwise dismiss as "obvious"
> suggestions
of texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, Howl. This
> goes for the
Black context as well -- Billie Holiday's Lady Sings the Blues,
> Baraka's
Blues People and Malcolm's Autobiography are the centers of this for
> me, but
anything else you think of?
>
> Is there a
Black Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
> Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
Check out, if you haven't, Norman
Mailer's seminal essay, "The White
Negro"(1957)
(found in his _Advertisements for Myself_ (1959)) for an
early discussion
of white hipness vis a vis the American Negro experience.
Beat Culture and
the New America has a chapter on the influence and
participation of Blacks in the Beat
Generation. There is also an
interview with Ted Jones in one of Arthur
and Kit Knights books in
which he reminices (sic) about Kerouac in
Harlem.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:48:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Spit In The Ocean
This literary journal published by Ken
Kesey in the late 70's, was
supposed to have 7 issues. To my knowledge,
publication ceased after
the special Neal Cassady Issue #6. Does
anyone know if issue #7 was
ever released and if not, why the project
was dropped?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:36:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Megan Milard
<Sixgallery@AOL.COM>
Subject: DAN TERKLA
DAN TERKLA--
I'M NOT SURE IF YOU ARE STILL A MEMBER OF
THIS LIST, BUT IF YOUARE PLEASE
SEND ME YOUR
E-MAIL ADDRESS. I CANNOT FIND YOU
ANYWHERE AND I HAVE MANY
GINSBERG IDEAS I
WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS. HOPE TO TALK WITH
YOU SOON.
MEGAN
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:22:11 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Damion Searls
<searls@UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Query re: Paul Bowles's health
Hello
everyone. I'm a new subscriber -- saw
your paragraph ad in the new
PMLA -- and I
thought that someone out there might be up on
guru-to-the-Beats
Paul Bowles.
Last I heard, he
had returned from Tangiers to the U.S. for medical
attention. Does anyone know what it was? how serious? if
he's still alive?
if he's back in
Tangiers? where in the U.S. he was/is?
I'm partly just
curious, partly
thinking of writing to him and trying to interview him for
some work I'm
doing on Paul and Jane Bowles (health permitting, obviously).
Thanks!
-- Damion Searls
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:21:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: russian influences
Ginsberg has
certainly been influenced by Russian Poetry, particularly Mayakovs
ky and
Yesenin. He talks about these influences
as well as Whitman's influence
on European
poetry in a course he sometimes gives at Brooklyn College on the hi
story of the Beat
Generation. If I remember correctly,
there are also some not
es on these
influences in the annotated edition of Howl.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:39:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Collectors and Hesse
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:37:03 -0500
from
<philli31@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
On Fri, 12 Jan
1996 16:37:03 -0500 Rodney Lee Phillips said:
>Mark--
>
>In regards to
your question concerning the Beats & Russian writers, see a
>collection of
interviews called (I believe) <The Beat Generation and the
>Russian New
Wave>. It was published by Ardis
Press in Ann Arbor in 1990.
>Sorry, but I
can't remember the editor's name. The
book contains some
>interesting
stuff on the connections between the Beats and their Russian
>counterparts.
>
> Best,
>
> Rod Phillips
> Dept of American Thought & Language
> Michigan State
> philli31@pilot.msu.edu
>
>>
> If you would like
>to discuss
beat collecting please contact me at >
Fisher@Programart.com.
>>
>>
>> The following quote is from "Dharma
Lion" by Michael Schumacher, first
>> in wraps, Chap. 9 "Howl", p.
197 (reference is to Ginsberg):
>>
>> "For his study of Buddhism he
examined Herman Hesse's novel,
>> "Siddhartha" which he judged to
be, nowhere in particular."
>>
>> There is also a passing reference to HH
in Literary Outlaw, but it
>> refers to Timothy Leary's Castalia
Foundation based on a group of
>> mystic scientists in "The Glass Bead
Game." Although Burroughs opinion
>> was not expressed, he apparently did not
care much for Leary at the
>> time.
>>
>> I could not find a reference to HH in the
Paris Review interview of
>> JK.
>>
>> Has anyone read Ann and Sam Charters,
book about Mayakovsky, "I Love"?
>> I found some interesting similarities
between the Russian writers of
>> that era and the Beats. Has anyone
written about this influence?
>>
Editors are Lauriden & Dalgard
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:34:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher <Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re: russian influences
Ginsberg has
certainly been influenced by Russian Poetry, particularly Mayakovs
ky and
Yesenin. He talks about these influences
as well as Whitman's influence
on European poetry
in a course he sometimes gives at Brooklyn College on the hi
story of the Beat
Generation. If I remember correctly,
there are also some not
es on these
influences in the annotated edition of Howl.
If I remember
correctly, Allan's mother was Russian.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:29:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Spit In The Ocean
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:48:35 EST from
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
On Mon, 15 Jan
1996 10:48:35 EST Mark Fisher said:
> This literary journal published by Ken
Kesey in the late 70's, was
> supposed to have 7 issues. To my
knowledge, publication ceased after
> the special Neal Cassady Issue #6. Does
anyone know if issue #7 was
> ever released and if not, why the project
was dropped?
This is also my
understanding. The Brooklyn College
library lists volumes 1-6.
Don't know what
happened to number 7. Suspect it wasn't
completed.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:43:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Query re: Paul Bowles's health
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:22:11 -0800
from
<searls@UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU>
On Mon, 15 Jan
1996 21:22:11 -0800 Damion Searls said:
>Hello
everyone. I'm a new subscriber -- saw
your paragraph ad in the new
>PMLA -- and I
thought that someone out there might be up on
>guru-to-the-Beats
Paul Bowles.
>
>Last I heard,
he had returned from Tangiers to the U.S. for medical
>attention. Does anyone know what it was? how serious? if
he's still alive?
>if he's back
in Tangiers? where in the U.S. he was/is?
I'm partly just
>curious,
partly thinking of writing to him and trying to interview him for
>some work I'm
doing on Paul and Jane Bowles (health permitting, obviously).
>
>Thanks!
>
>-- Damion Searls
Don't know if
this will be of use but there was a nice article in the New York
Times Book
Review, June 26, 1994, on Bowles return to the States.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:00:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Query re: Paul Bowles's health
>On Mon, 15
Jan 1996 21:22:11 -0800 Damion Searls said:
>>Hello
everyone. I'm a new subscriber -- saw
your paragraph ad in the new
>>PMLA --
and I thought that someone out there might be up on
>>guru-to-the-Beats
Paul Bowles.
>>
>>Last I
heard, he had returned from Tangiers to the U.S. for medical
>>attention. Does anyone know what it was? how serious? if
he's still alive?
>>if he's
back in Tangiers? where in the U.S. he was/is?
I'm partly just
>>curious,
partly thinking of writing to him and trying to interview him for
>>some work
I'm doing on Paul and Jane Bowles (health permitting, obviously).
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>-- Damion
Searls
>Don't know if
this will be of use but there was a nice article in the New York
>Times Book
Review, June 26, 1994, on Bowles return to the States.
And this article
was really about his returning _only_ to hear some
symphonic music
he'd written... yah?
It had been a
long long time since he'd been in New York... it was also
cited in _The New
Yorker_ magazine.
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:01:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Unsubscribe beat -l
unsubsribe beat
-l
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 18:40:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Black & Beat
Thanks for your
suggestions, one and all!
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:05:22 +1300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim <tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>
Subject: Jan Kerouac
Recently I came
across a book by Jan Kerouac. The notes on the cover
suggested she is
the daughter of Jack. Is this true? I was unaware of any
children in
Jack's closet. Does anyone know what she is doing now and the
names of anything
else she has written? Finally are there any other
acknowledged
children of Jack?
Thanks, Tim.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:31:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Tim <tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>
Subject: Jan Kerouac
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
Recently I came
across a book by Jan Kerouac. The notes on the cover
suggested she is
the daughter of Jack. Is this true? I was unaware of any
children in
Jack's closet. Does anyone know what she is doing now and the
names of anything
else she has written? Finally are there any other
acknowledged
children of Jack?
______________________________________________________________________________
She's currently
suing the estate of her father. Jack
never really officially
recognized her, but
the courts did, as she collects royalties off his books.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 01:04:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andra Greenberg
<asg5@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: Tim <tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>
>Subject: Jan Kerouac
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
>
>Recently I
came across a book by Jan Kerouac. The notes on the cover
>suggested she
is the daughter of Jack. Is this true? I was unaware of any
>children in
Jack's closet. Does anyone know what she is doing now and the
>names of
anything else she has written? Finally are there any other
>acknowledged
children of Jack?
>______________________________________________________________________________
>
>She's
currently suing the estate of her father.
Jack never really officially
>recognized
her, but the courts did, as she collects royalties off his books.
>
Why didn't he
recognize her? And on another topic,
about what is the book
by Jan?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 01:18:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jan Kerouac
Yes, Jan is
Jack's daughter. Check out the liner notes for the Jack kerouac
boxed set (by
Rhino). She writes the opening for these notes and talks about
her relationship
with her father. Also, check out "Literary Kicks," Levi
Asher's Beat page
on the Web. I read something there about Jan Kerouac and
the current
struggles she's having with the family of Jack's widow AND there
was some info
about her being barred from last summer's Beat conference in
New York even
though JK was the main topic at hand.
Was the book you
read by Jan "Baby Driver?" How
was it?
Liz.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 23:34:21 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
>Yes, Jan is
Jack's daughter. Check out the liner notes for the Jack kerouac
>boxed set (by
Rhino). She writes the opening for these notes and talks about
>her
relationship with her father. Also, check out "Literary Kicks," Levi
>Asher's Beat
page on the Web. I read something there about Jan Kerouac and
>the current
struggles she's having with the family of Jack's widow AND there
>was some info
about her being barred from last summer's Beat conference in
>New York even
though JK was the main topic at hand.
>
>Was the book
you read by Jan "Baby Driver?"
How was it?
>
>Liz.
I read baby
Driver. I liked it. I never read train Song though.
I remember
reading that part of the divorce settlement between Kerouac and
Joan Haverty his
second wife and Jan kerouac's mother was that Kerouac was
to have no
contact with his daughter.
Jack did seem to
try and deny his paternity. This is the
least flattering
aspect of his
life to put it nicely. But the court
settlement that
specifically
forabde him to have any contact with his daughter does present
extenuating
circumstances in his favor concerning his refusal to
acknolwedge his
daughter as being his. Later he did meet
her and spend
some time with
her (very small amounts of time). I
think Baby Driver
recounts these
times.
Tim G
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:40:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<199601170305.QAA11533@host02.net.voyager.co.nz> from
"Tim" at
Jan 17, 96 04:05:22 pm
There was an article
in the New York times about the children of the
beats from i
think November 5th or thereabouts -- jan kerouac was
interviewed
first, followed by talks with simon carr, parker kaufman, a
couple of
cassady's kids, one of diprima's daughters (who else on this
list enjoys
diprima -- anything obtainable besides pieces of a song??)
and some other
hapless offspring -- the article was showing the legacy
of the beats in
terms of their own children and from what i read of it,
IT WAS FUCKING
DEPRESSING -- everyone on the list should read this now
that i think
about it -- i wanted to hate parker kaufman for his lack of
respect for his
father and his art,because kaufman has wrapped his words
around my heart
and healed it thru SQUEEZING, whatever that means, but by
the end of the
article
when you find out
parker(named after charlie) is penniless and supporting
his mother and
the
interviewer gave
him ten bucks and a 'nice talking to you' it was just
sad and did give
another depressing insight into our society - that, plus
bob kaufman's son
was wearing a paula abdul shirt THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY
ABOUT THAT
because that genuinely frightened me(for some reason) --
straying back to
the legacy of the beats, does anyone have suggestions
for books about
the beat legacy that actually have some relevance and are
not just drooling
over the writers --
this is for ted
pelton(i think) concerning reading suggestions -- there
is an antholgy
called "black fire" edited by amiri baraka himself that
you should definitely
look into -- obtainable thru library only i'm sure
-- all by
basically contemporary black writers --
gratuitous
spontaneous poetry add-on since it seems so fun when some of
you do it --
the pale blue
wombs
are blown away,
having collapsed
under
the weight of
their
weary children,
so fragile in
this
violent night,
their shoulders
trembling
for the cold
earth
and the warmth of
an
answer, the green
day
so very far away,
pulled back over
the
gray horizon,
a retracted claw
that
brought the
comfort
of a healing
wound
will
u.of.penna.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:25:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Kids
Yes, the
interviews with the children of the beats in the New York Times
was depressing.
Checkout Levi Asher's interview with John Cassady on his
LIT KICKS web
page for a diferent point of view.
Mark H.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:59:21 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@Aalborg U (AAU)"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: BeatLit URLs
This is an
attempt to generate an e-mail directory file of WWW-documents
concerning Beat
Generation literature and life. All the URLs listed have
been screened for
content and found to contain something substantial of
interest. All
URLs were operational on Jan 17, 1996.
If your favourite
URL is not here, e-mail me and tell me about it. With
2000 search
results for a ALTA VISTA search for "Kerouac" alone I'm sure to
have missed a
lot... :-)
I hope to update
and repost this file to BEAT-L regularly, but only if it
is of use to
someone, so tell me what you think! The idea is to provide
quality, functional
URLs so people can go directly where they can find good
stuff, and not
have to wade through garbage thrown up by search engines...
I'll be adding a
section of homepages with Beat interest next. Send me your
URL if you want
to be on it.
For WWW-impaired,
e-mail only users: I have some of these files as
text-only
e-mailable chunks. Let me know if you would like anything in that
format.
Have fun reading
& viewing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GENERAL BEAT
INTEREST:
Levi Asher's
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
Epistrophy: Jazz
in 20th Century Literature:
http://ie.uwindsor.ca/jazz/
Village Voice
(40th Anniversary):
http://www.villagevoice.com/birthday/50ginsbu.htm
The Whitney
Museum, New York exhibit on Beat culture:
http://www.echonyc.com/~whitney/WMAA/BEATS/mainpage.html
The SF Chronicle
Beat section, Sunday 11/26/95:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article-list.cgi?Pink:PK:/chronicle/
archive/1995/11/26
Beats and
publishing:
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/UnspeakableVisions/page1.html
Route 66 &
The Beats:
http://www.virgin.fr/virgin/html/us/nostalgia/route66/beat_generation.html
http://www.virgin.fr/virgin/html/us/nostalgia/route66/byte_generation.html
Steve's Beat
Page:
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~jd4716/beats/index.html
Dharma Beats
Cosmic Baseball:
http://www.clark.net/pubs/ace/95beats.html
Trekking the Beat
Trail:
http://www.jpcom.com/euclid/beat.html
Addicted to Noise
piece:
http://www.addict.com/ATN/issues/1.05/Features/Beatnik_Books/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIVIDUAL
AUTHORS:
LitKicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/
KEROUAC:
Audio files of
Kerouac:
http://www.mathcs.duq.edu/~wiegand/jk.html
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/
~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
Penguin Kerouac
CD-Rom:
http://www.penguin.com/usa/electronic/titles/kerouac/
Short bio:
http://www.lehigh.edu/~nat2/kerouac.html
Kerouac resources
overview:
http://www.empirenet.com/~rdaeley/authors/kerouac.html
GINSBERG:
Interviews:
http://www.well.com/user/tricycle/beatgeneration.html
http://www.iuma.com/Seconds/html/issue28/Allen_Ginsburg.html
BURROUGHS:
The Burroughs
File:
http://www.hyperreal.com/wsb/index.html
Unofficial
Burroughs Homepage, part of web-zine Firehorse,
includes etexts:
http://www.peg.apc.org/~firehorse/wsb/wsb.html
Another Burroughs
bibliography and info page:
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~garms/zach/b1.html
Reality's
Burroughs page w. quotes, sounds, links:
http://mugwump.ucsd.edu/bkeeley/play-stuff/WSB.html
Article:
"Bring the Noise! William S. Burroughs and Music in the Expanded
Field" by
Brent Wood, from Postmodern Culture:
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/pmc/issue.195/review-1.195.html
E-text:
http://fido.wps.com/texts/index.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/ehn/Web/release/reading-list.html
Page based on
"The Western Lands":
http://muon.qrc.com/mdavis/wsb/wsb.html
Chapter on
Burroughs as part of Steven Shapiro's "Doom Patrols" book of
"theoretical
fiction about postmodernism.":
http://dhalgren.english.washington.edu/~steve/ch10.html
SNYDER:
Intro:
http://sln.fi.edu/river/snyder.html
Poems:
http://www.wnet.org/lol/snyder.html
KESEY:
The Far Gone
Interview:
http://www.imv.com/lit/fargone/kesey.htm
The
"unofficial" home page of Ken Kesey (Pictures only, so far):
http://www.peak.org/~clapp/kesey/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help me barbecue
the bugs in this list!
Regards,
bs@AAU
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
NB! This e-mail
address will be inactive from Feb 1 to Aug 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:29:12 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Vincent Yeow Chieh Pang
<akir1@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Subject: Diprima
>couple of
cassady's kids, one of diprima's daughters (who else on this
>list enjoys
diprima -- anything obtainable besides pieces of a song??)
>and some
other hapless offspring -- the article was showing the legacy
I enjoyed
Diprima's work quite a bit. Especially the ones titled "Three
Laments"
& "Poetics" or something to those effect. Which is your fave?
- Vincent -
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:33:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Arno Selhorst
<uzs405@IBM.RHRZ.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: BeatLit URLs
Hi!
Awesome links
there. I just put up my small homepage today and I also
started to gather
some more beat links among other literature links. Thx a
lot for
submitting yours to the list! I=B4ll try to put them on my homepage
next week. If
there are any dead links I=B4ll let you know.
Bye and thanks...
...Arno Selhorst
Ps: For those of
you interested. my homepage is
at--->http://ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de/~uzs405/index.html
But
lemme repeat: I just put it up today and it=B4s under heavy
construction!!!
Levi Asher, I linked your literary
kicks homepage to
my homepage,
that=B4s ok? I forgot to put in your name though...I=B4ll=
change
that in a few days.
*If freedom is
outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 00:48:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Igor Satanovsky <Isat@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: russian influences
>Ginsberg has
certainly been influenced by Russian Poetry, particularly
Mayakovs
ky and
Yesenin. He talks about these influences
as well as Whitman's
influence
on European
poetry in a course he sometimes gives at Brooklyn College on the
hi
story of the Beat
Generation. If I remember correctly,
there are also some
not
es on these
influences in the annotated edition of Howl.
>If I remember
correctly, Allan's mother was Russian.
Naomi Ginsberg,
Allen's mother was born in Russia. GInsberg was certainly
influenced
by Mayakovsky
(See his annotations to Howl). Mayakovsky in his own turn was a
heir of
Whitman in
Russian poetry. He was strongly influenced by Russian translations
of Whitman
by Balmont and
Chukovsky. I would despute Yesenin influence though. In my
opinion, he and
Ginsberg hardly have anything in common.
Although Allen
does not know Russian he always's been
very interested in
Russian culture
and has personally known many leading poets from the Russian
Beat, which is
still, basically, unknown to the West. Ginsberg even said once
in our
conversation that he identifies himself as a "russian poet in exile".
It was a joke, of
course, but it shows poet's interest in his roots.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:43:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gary Gillman
<garym@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Sterling Lord
Sterling Lord was
Jack Kerouac`s literary agent from the early 50`s until
Jack`s death in
1969. I find it odd that (from what I can tell) so little
has been written
about Mr. Lord, what he thought of his famous client both
as man and
writer, whether his opinions in this respect have changed over
the years, and so
forth. Accordingly, does anyone know, first, whether Mr.
Lord is still
living; if he is, how old is he ( I would reckon around 75);
has he ever
written a reminiscence of Kerouac or of any other Beat writers
he was (is?)
associated with? Thanks for any information supplied.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:25:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: paul a weinfield
<pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>
Comments: To:
Beat Net <beat-l%cunyvm.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu>
With all due respect to your wonderful
net-site, I am finding myself
inundated with
mail and need to unsubscribe from Beat-Net.
I've tried to
do this in many
different ways and now am looking for a WAY OUT!!!
Please tell me
how to unsubscribe successfully.
-- Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:14:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: OTR Reading
Sorry for my
recent absence, my AOL has been acting up and I
hadn't been able
to access my mail for a while -- not to mention
hours of
shoveling snow. I hope that people who
have been
reading OTR on my
urging have been getting along well. I haven't
had time to put
my thoughts into any coherent form but here are
some ramblings.
Kerouac's
contention that OTR is a spiritual book -- first and
foremost -- is
borne out in my recent reading. The
general lack
of understanding
in the press and public at that time of the type
of spirituality
he was talking about can certainly be understood
-- much like the
misinterpretation of Baudelaire's "Flowers of
Evil" in his
time.
Certainly a
common evolution both on a literary and a personal
level is to go
from a drug-induced quest to a more pure spiritual
quest for
enlightenment -- certainly what many of us went through
in the 60s and
70s a la Herman Hesse -- and recent posts on the
subject.
Section 10 of
part two, which begins on page 171 of the Penguin
edition, appears
to be one of the most important
spiritual sections of
the book -- also
certainly important in outlining his own
romantic vision
and literary agenda. He has "...a
whole host of
memories leading
back to 1750 in England...," which is the
approximate
beginning of the Romantic Era.
The
"revolutionary" nature of Kerouac has to always be seen in
the context of
the spiritual -- and as spiritual quests are
individual they
do not lead to a final political goal. He
certainly makes political
comments in the book -- I'm too lazy
right now to
gather them together, but they are more in the
nature of
asides. What became political was the
reaction of
straight
(non-Beat) society -- one of the best scenes is when Sal
and Dean are in
the back seat and the uptight straights (although
one is gay) are
in the front worrying about where they will stay
etc.
America is a
nation of non-spiritual people who mistake going to
church on Sunday
for connectedness to spiritual being --
any
notion that
challenges this is viewed as heretical and
revolutionary --
probably today as much as any time since the
50's -- which is
probably why there is a resurgence of Beat
popularity among
the rebellious young and the conflicted middle-
agers such as myself.
I remember that
someone on the list had said they had seen a
screenplay of OTR
that did not include the Mexico section.
I
can't imagine
that any movie version would leave out Mexico.
If
I were to attempt
a screenplay I would write that first and work
my way backward
using everything else to foreshadow it -- with
the image of the
white horse coming out of the night and walking
next to the
sleeping body of Dean/Neal as the climax of the
movie. But what do I know -- I hope the final movie is
not a big
disappointment.
Happy New Year
Perry Lindstrom
P.S. Next week Howard Park and I start our course
at the
Smithsonian, with
OTR being the topic of the first night -- we
will no doubt
keep the list posted on how things go.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:07:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
You heard
true. We attended the JK Conference last
year in NYC and Jan and
her followers,
(including biographer Gerald Nicosia), were protesting across
the
street because
Jan was not invited to speak or be on any conference panel.
The university
wanted to keep the conference focused on JK's literary works
and
did not want to
get involved with the personal/political friction that is
taking place.
The conference
was well attended, over 200 attendees.
Jan & her followers
were very vocal
and made their presence known throughout the whole conference
including walking
tours and panel discussions.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:09:54 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Black & Beat
Ted,
One more
suggestion. There is a book by Al Young called *Things Ain't What
They Used To Be*
(Berkeley: Creative Arts, 1987). It is volume three in his
trilogy of
"musical memoirs". The final section is called "Jazz and
Letters."
It's an excellent
discussion among Young, Larry Kart, and Michael S. Harper
about
cross-influences among painters, writers and musicians. Highly
recommended.
Best,
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:16:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sara Ellefson
<Sara_Ellefson_at_PO.CHI08@SMTPLINK.INFORES.COM>
Subject: How to get off . . .
You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEAT-L"
command to
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (or
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET).
_
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 09:57:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Todd Bauer
<dbe345@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spit In The Ocean
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96011614314182@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from "Bill Gargan" at Jan
16, 96 02:29:06 pm
Yeah there was no
issue #7, I've talked with Ken Babbs and it ceased due to a
lack of interest
and funding. All six published issues
can be purchased from
Key-z
productions.>
> On Mon, 15
Jan 1996 10:48:35 EST Mark Fisher said:
> > This literary journal published by Ken
Kesey in the late 70's, was
> > supposed to have 7 issues. To my
knowledge, publication ceased after
> > the special Neal Cassady Issue #6. Does
anyone know if issue #7 was
> > ever released and if not, why the project
was dropped?
>
> This is also
my understanding. The Brooklyn College
library lists volumes
1-6.
> Don't know
what happened to number 7. Suspect it
wasn't completed.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 14:39:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
You heard
true. We attended the JK Conference last
year in NYC and Jan and
her followers,
(including biographer Gerald Nicosia), were protesting across
the
street because
Jan was not invited to speak or be on any conference panel.
The university
wanted to keep the conference focused on JK's literary works
and
did not want to
get involved with the personal/political friction that is
taking place.
The conference
was well attended, over 200 attendees.
Jan & her followers
were very vocal
and made their presence known throughout the whole conference
including walking
tours and panel discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see any
reason why Jan should be invited to attend a conference on
her father. She only met the man for about fifteen
minutes of his life
and isn't any
kind of scholar.
Does anyone
agree/disagree? Should she be there?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 08:15:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ralph Virgo
<rvirgo@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
You wrote:
>
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
>
>You heard
true. We attended the JK Conference last
year in NYC and
Jan and
>her
followers, (including biographer Gerald Nicosia), were protesting
across
>the
>street
because Jan was not invited to speak or be on any conference
panel.
>The
university wanted to keep the conference focused on JK's literary
works
>and
>did not want
to get involved with the personal/political friction that
is
>taking place.
>The
conference was well attended, over 200 attendees. Jan & her
followers
>were very
vocal and made their presence known throughout the whole
conference
>including
walking tours and panel discussions.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
>I don't see
any reason why Jan should be invited to attend a
conference on
>her
father. She only met the man for about
fifteen minutes of his
life
>and isn't any
kind of scholar.
>
>Does anyone
agree/disagree? Should she be there?
The issue was not
"was she invited to attend."
No one needs an
invitation to
attend; it was an open-to-the-public conference.
The issue, and a
very real one, is that she was not allowed to
participate on
panels.
I, for one, think
that she definitely should have been included on
panels.
She is in fact a
scholar as far as regards her father's work.
She has
presented
numerous times, and knows much about his writing. Granted,
she is not a
formal scholar, as in having an academic appointment. But
then, neither are
Ray Bremster, Lee Renaldo, Andy Clausen, nor a number
of other panel
members formal scholars.
Jan was excluded
from the conference because she wanted to talk about
her and Gerry
Nicosia's efforts to have her father's collected papers
kept intact and
placed in a library. The benefit to me,
you, and other
people interested
in his writing is that the work would be available to
all for research
purposes.
You may want to
check out Jan's Open Letter to NYU, as reprinted in
Inside the
Kerouac Legacy
(http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Topics/IKL.html)
Ralph Virgo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:23:39 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@SUN3.CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: ghosts of kerouac and ginsberg
spotted
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
In-Reply-To: <30D9CE61@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
tanks mon....of course 'tis so, as i'm a
potate in disguise and can
>
> Is there a
Black Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
> Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
Check out, if you haven't, Norman
Mailer's seminal essay, "The White
Negro"(1957)
(found in his _Advertisements for Myself_ (1959)) for an
early discussion
of white hipness vis a vis the American Negro experience.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 17:31:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Since you asked....
> Is there
anything that comes to mind that you think I
>should be
reading, listers? I've been mining this
territory already, >but
please, feel free
to make what you might otherwise dismiss as >"obvious"
>suggestions
of texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, >Howl.
Ted: Since you're
interested in the connections between Kerouac and black
culture, I
suggest reading The Subterraneans, concerning his relationship
with black beat
woman "Mardou Fox" or Ilene May.
One of the reasons I can
never stay mad at
Kerouac over his treatment of women is the tension that
comes through in
this book: Because at every point where the narrator feels
disgust at
Mardou's otherness -
her womanness and
blackness - there is also this deep sadness
and shame about
having the disgust. (In my early feminist days, my attitude
was "so
what? he was sad about everything!") Of course, there is a lot more
to the book than
this..
It's one of my
favorite Kerouac books ...right after Visions of Gerard, which
is so beautifully
written, and can give you a feeling of how Buddhism and
Catholicism
mingled in Kerouac's psyche.
(By the way, I am
completely wrapped up in Charles Olson's work and bio these
days after having
started with him this fall via Ed Sanders...mention this
because I know
you appreciate Olson.)
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 19:59:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 11 Jan 1996 to 12 Jan
1996
In-Reply-To:
<960113203413_115704074@mail06.mail.aol.com>
On Sat, 13 Jan
1996, Ted Pelton wrote:
> Is there a
Black Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
> Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
Might you mean
black whiteness, or is that the same thing (but really,
if there can be
one the other should be the opposite), or another
possibility? That is, I presume you're talking about one
of these
groups taking on
the other's characteristics. Thinking
again, my guess
is that
regardless of wording you meant the taking on of black
characteristics
by whites. Is this what you meant?
> One more
thing: does anyone know if Dizzy's song "Kerouac" is available on
> any CD? Which?
I've never heard it.
I'm sure I've
seen it on CD, but don't know what one--sorry.
Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:16:43 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON
<abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BEAT-L Digest - 11 Jan 1996 to 12 Jan
1996
On Sat.13 Jan.
1996, Ted Pelton asked about "Beat,Black White-
ness".
Is this meant to
be interpreted as whites sharing a existential
phenomenology
with blacks?
I think what
Kerouac (among others) shared not only with the bla-
cks,the
mexicans,the homeless,the mad,the dope-addicted was a
feeling of being
unacculterated and disesteemed in the life and
times of 50's
America.
So, in short my
answer is yes there was a shared existential
phenomenological
philosophy.
--
of Course life
being just a Reflex you know since Everything is
Relative or to
sum it ALL UP god being Dead(not to mention in
Terred) LONG LIVE
that Upwardlooking Serene Illustrious and Lord
of
Creation,MAN.........................................e.e.c.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:50:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dead Beat
Harrison's book
about the Dead was the first, but I have always found it
disjointed and,
my impression is that he exaggerated his connections with the
band. (BTW he is Courtney Love's father).
I found Rock
Scully's book, "Living with the Dead" to be pretty informative,
very funny and
sometimes quite sad. Scully has his
detractors, but he was a
real
insider. There are several references to
Jack Kerouac's influence upon
Garcia. Scully's book, IMHO, is the first
"real" book about Garcia -- the
first the
penetrate what gradually became a formidable public relations
machine. I don't say that in a particularily negative
sense. Arguably, one
of my heros,
Allen Ginsburg is one of the great PR persons of the century.
His standing as a
truely great poet is not a matter for serious argument (I
hope Norman
Podheritz reads that and has a fit).
For the last 10
years or so, Dennis McNally, author of a fine Kerouac bio
"Desolate
Angel", still in print, was the spokesperson for the Dead. I
understyand that
he will write the definitive book of the latter years of the
band, and perhaps
of the early years too. I hope he won't
pull his punches.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:48:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re: Recommended reading
>
> Ok, my
question. Is there anything that comes
to mind that you think I
> should be
reading, listers? I've been mining this
territory already, but
> please, feel
free to make what you might otherwise dismiss as "obvious"
> suggestions
of texts -- anything beyond OTR, Vanity of Dulouz, Howl. This
> goes for the
Black context as well -- Billie Holiday's Lady Sings the Blues,
> Baraka's
Blues People and Malcolm's Autobiography are the centers of this for
> me, but
anything else you think of?
>
> Is there a
Black Beatness (besides, or in line with, Mr. Baraka's course)?
> Or is "Beat," Black Whiteness? You dig?
Check out, if you haven't, Norman
Mailer's seminal essay, "The White
Negro"(1957)
(found in his _Advertisements for Myself_ (1959)) for an
early discussion
of white hipness vis a vis the American Negro experience.
Beat Culture and
the New America has a chapter on the influence and
participation of Blacks in the Beat
Generation. There is also an
interview with Ted Jones in one of Arthur
and Kit Knights books in
which he reminices (sic) about Kerouac in
Harlem.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:48:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Spit In The Ocean
This literary journal published by Ken
Kesey in the late 70's, was
supposed to have 7 issues. To my
knowledge, publication ceased after
the special Neal Cassady Issue #6. Does
anyone know if issue #7 was
ever released and if not, why the project
was dropped?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:36:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Megan Milard
<Sixgallery@AOL.COM>
Subject: DAN TERKLA
DAN TERKLA--
I'M NOT SURE IF YOU ARE STILL A MEMBER OF
THIS LIST, BUT IF YOUARE PLEASE
SEND ME YOUR
E-MAIL ADDRESS. I CANNOT FIND YOU
ANYWHERE AND I HAVE MANY
GINSBERG IDEAS I
WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS. HOPE TO TALK WITH
YOU SOON.
MEGAN
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:22:11 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Damion Searls
<searls@UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Query re: Paul Bowles's health
Hello
everyone. I'm a new subscriber -- saw
your paragraph ad in the new
PMLA -- and I
thought that someone out there might be up on
guru-to-the-Beats
Paul Bowles.
Last I heard, he
had returned from Tangiers to the U.S. for medical
attention. Does anyone know what it was? how serious? if
he's still alive?
if he's back in
Tangiers? where in the U.S. he was/is?
I'm partly just
curious, partly
thinking of writing to him and trying to interview him for
some work I'm
doing on Paul and Jane Bowles (health permitting, obviously).
Thanks!
-- Damion Searls
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:21:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: russian influences
Ginsberg has
certainly been influenced by Russian Poetry, particularly Mayakovs
ky and
Yesenin. He talks about these influences
as well as Whitman's influence
on European
poetry in a course he sometimes gives at Brooklyn College on the hi
story of the Beat
Generation. If I remember correctly,
there are also some not
es on these
influences in the annotated edition of Howl.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:39:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Collectors and Hesse
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:37:03 -0500
from
<philli31@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
On Fri, 12 Jan
1996 16:37:03 -0500 Rodney Lee Phillips said:
>Mark--
>
>In regards to
your question concerning the Beats & Russian writers, see a
>collection of
interviews called (I believe) <The Beat Generation and the
>Russian New
Wave>. It was published by Ardis
Press in Ann Arbor in 1990.
>Sorry, but I
can't remember the editor's name. The
book contains some
>interesting
stuff on the connections between the Beats and their Russian
>counterparts.
>
> Best,
>
> Rod Phillips
> Dept of American Thought & Language
> Michigan State
> philli31@pilot.msu.edu
>
>>
> If you would like
>to discuss
beat collecting please contact me at >
Fisher@Programart.com.
>>
>>
>> The following quote is from "Dharma
Lion" by Michael Schumacher, first
>> in wraps, Chap. 9 "Howl", p.
197 (reference is to Ginsberg):
>>
>> "For his study of Buddhism he
examined Herman Hesse's novel,
>> "Siddhartha" which he judged to
be, nowhere in particular."
>>
>> There is also a passing reference to HH
in Literary Outlaw, but it
>> refers to Timothy Leary's Castalia
Foundation based on a group of
>> mystic scientists in "The Glass Bead
Game." Although Burroughs opinion
>> was not expressed, he apparently did not
care much for Leary at the
>> time.
>>
>> I could not find a reference to HH in the
Paris Review interview of
>> JK.
>>
>> Has anyone read Ann and Sam Charters,
book about Mayakovsky, "I Love"?
>> I found some interesting similarities
between the Russian writers of
>> that era and the Beats. Has anyone
written about this influence?
>>
Editors are Lauriden & Dalgard
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:34:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re: russian influences
Ginsberg has
certainly been influenced by Russian Poetry, particularly Mayakovs
ky and
Yesenin. He talks about these influences
as well as Whitman's influence
on European
poetry in a course he sometimes gives at Brooklyn College on the hi
story of the Beat
Generation. If I remember correctly,
there are also some not
es on these
influences in the annotated edition of Howl.
If I remember
correctly, Allan's mother was Russian.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:29:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Spit In The Ocean
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:48:35 EST from
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
On Mon, 15 Jan
1996 10:48:35 EST Mark Fisher said:
> This literary journal published by Ken
Kesey in the late 70's, was
> supposed to have 7 issues. To my
knowledge, publication ceased after
> the special Neal Cassady Issue #6. Does
anyone know if issue #7 was
> ever released and if not, why the project
was dropped?
This is also my
understanding. The Brooklyn College
library lists volumes 1-6.
Don't know what
happened to number 7. Suspect it wasn't
completed.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:43:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Query re: Paul Bowles's health
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:22:11 -0800
from
<searls@UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU>
On Mon, 15 Jan
1996 21:22:11 -0800 Damion Searls said:
>Hello
everyone. I'm a new subscriber -- saw
your paragraph ad in the new
>PMLA -- and I
thought that someone out there might be up on
>guru-to-the-Beats
Paul Bowles.
>
>Last I heard,
he had returned from Tangiers to the U.S. for medical
>attention. Does anyone know what it was? how serious? if
he's still alive?
>if he's back
in Tangiers? where in the U.S. he was/is?
I'm partly just
>curious,
partly thinking of writing to him and trying to interview him for
>some work I'm
doing on Paul and Jane Bowles (health permitting, obviously).
>
>Thanks!
>
>-- Damion
Searls
Don't know if
this will be of use but there was a nice article in the New York
Times Book
Review, June 26, 1994, on Bowles return to the States.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:00:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Query re: Paul Bowles's health
>On Mon, 15
Jan 1996 21:22:11 -0800 Damion Searls said:
>>Hello
everyone. I'm a new subscriber -- saw
your paragraph ad in the new
>>PMLA --
and I thought that someone out there might be up on
>>guru-to-the-Beats
Paul Bowles.
>>
>>Last I
heard, he had returned from Tangiers to the U.S. for medical
>>attention. Does anyone know what it was? how serious? if
he's still alive?
>>if he's
back in Tangiers? where in the U.S. he was/is?
I'm partly just
>>curious,
partly thinking of writing to him and trying to interview him for
>>some work
I'm doing on Paul and Jane Bowles (health permitting, obviously).
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>-- Damion
Searls
>Don't know if
this will be of use but there was a nice article in the New York
>Times Book Review,
June 26, 1994, on Bowles return to the States.
And this article
was really about his returning _only_ to hear some
symphonic music
he'd written... yah?
It had been a
long long time since he'd been in New York... it was also
cited in _The New
Yorker_ magazine.
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:01:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Rita T. Friedman"
<NekkidLnch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Unsubscribe beat -l
unsubsribe beat
-l
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 18:40:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Black & Beat
Thanks for your
suggestions, one and all!
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:05:22 +1300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim <tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>
Subject: Jan Kerouac
Recently I came
across a book by Jan Kerouac. The notes on the cover
suggested she is
the daughter of Jack. Is this true? I was unaware of any
children in
Jack's closet. Does anyone know what she is doing now and the
names of anything
else she has written? Finally are there any other
acknowledged
children of Jack?
Thanks, Tim.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:31:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Tim <tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>
Subject: Jan Kerouac
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
Recently I came
across a book by Jan Kerouac. The notes on the cover
suggested she is
the daughter of Jack. Is this true? I was unaware of any
children in
Jack's closet. Does anyone know what she is doing now and the
names of anything
else she has written? Finally are there any other
acknowledged
children of Jack?
______________________________________________________________________________
She's currently
suing the estate of her father. Jack
never really officially
recognized her,
but the courts did, as she collects royalties off his books.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 01:04:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andra Greenberg
<asg5@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: Tim <tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>
>Subject: Jan Kerouac
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
>
>Recently I
came across a book by Jan Kerouac. The notes on the cover
>suggested she
is the daughter of Jack. Is this true? I was unaware of any
>children in
Jack's closet. Does anyone know what she is doing now and the
>names of
anything else she has written? Finally are there any other
>acknowledged
children of Jack?
>______________________________________________________________________________
>
>She's
currently suing the estate of her father.
Jack never really officially
>recognized
her, but the courts did, as she collects royalties off his books.
>
Why didn't he
recognize her? And on another topic,
about what is the book
by Jan?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 01:18:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jan Kerouac
Yes, Jan is
Jack's daughter. Check out the liner notes for the Jack kerouac
boxed set (by
Rhino). She writes the opening for these notes and talks about
her relationship
with her father. Also, check out "Literary Kicks," Levi
Asher's Beat page
on the Web. I read something there about Jan Kerouac and
the current
struggles she's having with the family of Jack's widow AND there
was some info
about her being barred from last summer's Beat conference in
New York even
though JK was the main topic at hand.
Was the book you
read by Jan "Baby Driver?" How
was it?
Liz.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 23:34:21 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
>Yes, Jan is
Jack's daughter. Check out the liner notes for the Jack kerouac
>boxed set (by
Rhino). She writes the opening for these notes and talks about
>her
relationship with her father. Also, check out "Literary Kicks," Levi
>Asher's Beat
page on the Web. I read something there about Jan Kerouac and
>the current
struggles she's having with the family of Jack's widow AND there
>was some info
about her being barred from last summer's Beat conference in
>New York even
though JK was the main topic at hand.
>
>Was the book
you read by Jan "Baby Driver?"
How was it?
>
>Liz.
I read baby
Driver. I liked it. I never read train Song though.
I remember
reading that part of the divorce settlement between Kerouac and
Joan Haverty his
second wife and Jan kerouac's mother was that Kerouac was
to have no
contact with his daughter.
Jack did seem to
try and deny his paternity. This is the
least flattering
aspect of his
life to put it nicely. But the court
settlement that
specifically
forabde him to have any contact with his daughter does present
extenuating
circumstances in his favor concerning his refusal to
acknolwedge his
daughter as being his. Later he did meet
her and spend
some time with
her (very small amounts of time). I
think Baby Driver
recounts these
times.
Tim G
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:40:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<199601170305.QAA11533@host02.net.voyager.co.nz> from
"Tim" at
Jan 17, 96 04:05:22 pm
There was an
article in the New York times about the children of the
beats from i
think November 5th or thereabouts -- jan kerouac was
interviewed
first, followed by talks with simon carr, parker kaufman, a
couple of
cassady's kids, one of diprima's daughters (who else on this
list enjoys
diprima -- anything obtainable besides pieces of a song??)
and some other
hapless offspring -- the article was showing the legacy
of the beats in
terms of their own children and from what i read of it,
IT WAS FUCKING
DEPRESSING -- everyone on the list should read this now
that i think
about it -- i wanted to hate parker kaufman for his lack of
respect for his
father and his art,because kaufman has wrapped his words
around my heart
and healed it thru SQUEEZING, whatever that means, but by
the end of the
article
when you find out
parker(named after charlie) is penniless and supporting
his mother and
the
interviewer gave
him ten bucks and a 'nice talking to you' it was just
sad and did give
another depressing insight into our society - that, plus
bob kaufman's son
was wearing a paula abdul shirt THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY
ABOUT THAT
because that genuinely frightened me(for some reason) --
straying back to
the legacy of the beats, does anyone have suggestions
for books about
the beat legacy that actually have some relevance and are
not just drooling
over the writers --
this is for ted
pelton(i think) concerning reading suggestions -- there
is an antholgy
called "black fire" edited by amiri baraka himself that
you should
definitely look into -- obtainable thru library only i'm sure
-- all by
basically contemporary black writers --
gratuitous
spontaneous poetry add-on since it seems so fun when some of
you do it --
the pale blue
wombs
are blown away,
having collapsed
under
the weight of
their
weary children,
so fragile in
this
violent night,
their shoulders
trembling
for the cold
earth
and the warmth of
an
answer, the green
day
so very far away,
pulled back over
the
gray horizon,
a retracted claw
that
brought the
comfort
of a healing
wound
will
u.of.penna.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:25:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Kids
Yes, the
interviews with the children of the beats in the New York Times
was depressing. Checkout
Levi Asher's interview with John Cassady on his
LIT KICKS web
page for a diferent point of view.
Mark H.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:59:21 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@Aalborg U (AAU)"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: BeatLit URLs
This is an
attempt to generate an e-mail directory file of WWW-documents
concerning Beat
Generation literature and life. All the URLs listed have
been screened for
content and found to contain something substantial of
interest. All
URLs were operational on Jan 17, 1996.
If your favourite
URL is not here, e-mail me and tell me about it. With
2000 search
results for a ALTA VISTA search for "Kerouac" alone I'm sure to
have missed a
lot... :-)
I hope to update
and repost this file to BEAT-L regularly, but only if it
is of use to
someone, so tell me what you think! The idea is to provide
quality,
functional URLs so people can go directly where they can find good
stuff, and not
have to wade through garbage thrown up by search engines...
I'll be adding a
section of homepages with Beat interest next. Send me your
URL if you want to
be on it.
For WWW-impaired,
e-mail only users: I have some of these files as
text-only
e-mailable chunks. Let me know if you would like anything in that
format.
Have fun reading
& viewing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GENERAL BEAT
INTEREST:
Levi Asher's
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
Epistrophy: Jazz
in 20th Century Literature:
http://ie.uwindsor.ca/jazz/
Village Voice
(40th Anniversary):
http://www.villagevoice.com/birthday/50ginsbu.htm
The Whitney
Museum, New York exhibit on Beat culture:
http://www.echonyc.com/~whitney/WMAA/BEATS/mainpage.html
The SF Chronicle
Beat section, Sunday 11/26/95:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article-list.cgi?Pink:PK:/chronicle/
archive/1995/11/26
Beats and
publishing:
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/UnspeakableVisions/page1.html
Route 66 &
The Beats:
http://www.virgin.fr/virgin/html/us/nostalgia/route66/beat_generation.html
http://www.virgin.fr/virgin/html/us/nostalgia/route66/byte_generation.html
Steve's Beat
Page:
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~jd4716/beats/index.html
Dharma Beats
Cosmic Baseball:
http://www.clark.net/pubs/ace/95beats.html
Trekking the Beat
Trail:
http://www.jpcom.com/euclid/beat.html
Addicted to Noise
piece:
http://www.addict.com/ATN/issues/1.05/Features/Beatnik_Books/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIVIDUAL
AUTHORS:
LitKicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/
KEROUAC:
Audio files of
Kerouac:
http://www.mathcs.duq.edu/~wiegand/jk.html
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/
~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
Penguin Kerouac
CD-Rom:
http://www.penguin.com/usa/electronic/titles/kerouac/
Short bio:
http://www.lehigh.edu/~nat2/kerouac.html
Kerouac resources
overview:
http://www.empirenet.com/~rdaeley/authors/kerouac.html
GINSBERG:
Interviews:
http://www.well.com/user/tricycle/beatgeneration.html
http://www.iuma.com/Seconds/html/issue28/Allen_Ginsburg.html
BURROUGHS:
The Burroughs
File:
http://www.hyperreal.com/wsb/index.html
Unofficial
Burroughs Homepage, part of web-zine Firehorse,
includes etexts:
http://www.peg.apc.org/~firehorse/wsb/wsb.html
Another Burroughs
bibliography and info page:
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~garms/zach/b1.html
Reality's
Burroughs page w. quotes, sounds, links:
http://mugwump.ucsd.edu/bkeeley/play-stuff/WSB.html
Article:
"Bring the Noise! William S. Burroughs and Music in the Expanded
Field" by
Brent Wood, from Postmodern Culture:
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/pmc/issue.195/review-1.195.html
E-text:
http://fido.wps.com/texts/index.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/ehn/Web/release/reading-list.html
Page based on
"The Western Lands":
http://muon.qrc.com/mdavis/wsb/wsb.html
Chapter on
Burroughs as part of Steven Shapiro's "Doom Patrols" book of
"theoretical
fiction about postmodernism.":
http://dhalgren.english.washington.edu/~steve/ch10.html
SNYDER:
Intro:
http://sln.fi.edu/river/snyder.html
Poems:
http://www.wnet.org/lol/snyder.html
KESEY:
The Far Gone
Interview:
http://www.imv.com/lit/fargone/kesey.htm
The
"unofficial" home page of Ken Kesey (Pictures only, so far):
http://www.peak.org/~clapp/kesey/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help me barbecue
the bugs in this list!
Regards,
bs@AAU
Dept. of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
NB! This e-mail
address will be inactive from Feb 1 to Aug 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:29:12 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Vincent Yeow Chieh Pang
<akir1@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Subject: Diprima
>couple of
cassady's kids, one of diprima's daughters (who else on this
>list enjoys
diprima -- anything obtainable besides pieces of a song??)
>and some
other hapless offspring -- the article was showing the legacy
I enjoyed
Diprima's work quite a bit. Especially the ones titled "Three
Laments"
& "Poetics" or something to those effect. Which is your fave?
- Vincent -
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:33:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Arno Selhorst
<uzs405@IBM.RHRZ.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: BeatLit URLs
Hi!
Awesome links
there. I just put up my small homepage today and I also
started to gather
some more beat links among other literature links. Thx a
lot for submitting
yours to the list! I=B4ll try to put them on my homepage
next week. If
there are any dead links I=B4ll let you know.
Bye and thanks...
...Arno Selhorst
Ps: For those of
you interested. my homepage is
at--->http://ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de/~uzs405/index.html
But lemme repeat: I just put it up today
and it=B4s under heavy
construction!!!
Levi Asher, I linked your literary
kicks homepage to
my homepage,
that=B4s ok? I forgot to put in your name though...I=B4ll=
change
that in a few days.
*If freedom is
outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 00:48:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Igor Satanovsky <Isat@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: russian influences
>Ginsberg has
certainly been influenced by Russian Poetry, particularly
Mayakovs
ky and Yesenin. He talks about these influences as well as
Whitman's
influence
on European
poetry in a course he sometimes gives at Brooklyn College on the
hi
story of the Beat
Generation. If I remember correctly,
there are also some
not
es on these
influences in the annotated edition of Howl.
>If I remember
correctly, Allan's mother was Russian.
Naomi Ginsberg,
Allen's mother was born in Russia. GInsberg was certainly
influenced
by Mayakovsky
(See his annotations to Howl). Mayakovsky in his own turn was a
heir of
Whitman in
Russian poetry. He was strongly influenced by Russian translations
of Whitman
by Balmont and
Chukovsky. I would despute Yesenin influence though. In my
opinion, he and
Ginsberg hardly have anything in common.
Although Allen does
not know Russian he always's been very
interested in
Russian culture
and has personally known many leading poets from the Russian
Beat, which is
still, basically, unknown to the West. Ginsberg even said once
in our
conversation that he identifies himself as a "russian poet in exile".
It was a joke, of
course, but it shows poet's interest in his roots.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:43:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gary Gillman
<garym@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Sterling Lord
Sterling Lord was
Jack Kerouac`s literary agent from the early 50`s until
Jack`s death in
1969. I find it odd that (from what I can tell) so little
has been written
about Mr. Lord, what he thought of his famous client both
as man and
writer, whether his opinions in this respect have changed over
the years, and so
forth. Accordingly, does anyone know, first, whether Mr.
Lord is still
living; if he is, how old is he ( I would reckon around 75);
has he ever
written a reminiscence of Kerouac or of any other Beat writers
he was (is?)
associated with? Thanks for any information supplied.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:25:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: paul a weinfield
<pweinfie@INDIANA.EDU>
Comments: To:
Beat Net <beat-l%cunyvm.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu>
With all due respect to your wonderful
net-site, I am finding myself
inundated with
mail and need to unsubscribe from Beat-Net.
I've tried to
do this in many
different ways and now am looking for a WAY OUT!!!
Please tell me
how to unsubscribe successfully.
-- Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:14:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: OTR Reading
Sorry for my
recent absence, my AOL has been acting up and I
hadn't been able
to access my mail for a while -- not to mention
hours of
shoveling snow. I hope that people who
have been
reading OTR on my
urging have been getting along well. I haven't
had time to put
my thoughts into any coherent form but here are
some ramblings.
Kerouac's
contention that OTR is a spiritual book -- first and
foremost -- is
borne out in my recent reading. The
general lack
of understanding
in the press and public at that time of the type
of spirituality
he was talking about can certainly be understood
-- much like the
misinterpretation of Baudelaire's "Flowers of
Evil" in his
time.
Certainly a
common evolution both on a literary and a personal
level is to go
from a drug-induced quest to a more pure spiritual
quest for
enlightenment -- certainly what many of us went through
in the 60s and
70s a la Herman Hesse -- and recent posts on the
subject.
Section 10 of
part two, which begins on page 171 of the Penguin
edition, appears
to be one of the most important
spiritual sections of
the book -- also
certainly important in outlining his own
romantic vision
and literary agenda. He has "...a
whole host of
memories leading
back to 1750 in England...," which is the
approximate
beginning of the Romantic Era.
The
"revolutionary" nature of Kerouac has to always be seen in
the context of
the spiritual -- and as spiritual quests are
individual they
do not lead to a final political goal. He
certainly makes
political comments in the book -- I'm too lazy
right now to
gather them together, but they are more in the
nature of
asides. What became political was the
reaction of
straight
(non-Beat) society -- one of the best scenes is when Sal
and Dean are in
the back seat and the uptight straights (although
one is gay) are
in the front worrying about where they will stay
etc.
America is a
nation of non-spiritual people who mistake going to
church on Sunday
for connectedness to spiritual being --
any
notion that
challenges this is viewed as heretical and
revolutionary --
probably today as much as any time since the
50's -- which is
probably why there is a resurgence of Beat
popularity among
the rebellious young and the conflicted middle-
agers such as
myself.
I remember that
someone on the list had said they had seen a
screenplay of OTR
that did not include the Mexico section.
I
can't imagine
that any movie version would leave out Mexico.
If
I were to attempt
a screenplay I would write that first and work
my way backward
using everything else to foreshadow it -- with
the image of the
white horse coming out of the night and walking
next to the
sleeping body of Dean/Neal as the climax of the
movie. But what do I know -- I hope the final movie
is not a big
disappointment.
Happy New Year
Perry Lindstrom
P.S. Next week Howard Park and I start our course
at the
Smithsonian, with
OTR being the topic of the first night -- we
will no doubt
keep the list posted on how things go.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:07:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
You heard
true. We attended the JK Conference last
year in NYC and Jan and
her followers,
(including biographer Gerald Nicosia), were protesting across
the
street because
Jan was not invited to speak or be on any conference panel.
The university
wanted to keep the conference focused on JK's literary works
and
did not want to
get involved with the personal/political friction that is
taking place.
The conference
was well attended, over 200 attendees.
Jan & her followers
were very vocal
and made their presence known throughout the whole conference
including walking
tours and panel discussions.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:09:54 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re:
Black & Beat
Ted,
One more
suggestion. There is a book by Al Young called *Things Ain't What
They Used To Be*
(Berkeley: Creative Arts, 1987). It is volume three in his
trilogy of
"musical memoirs". The final section is called "Jazz and Letters."
It's an excellent
discussion among Young, Larry Kart, and Michael S. Harper
about
cross-influences among painters, writers and musicians. Highly
recommended.
Best,
Dan B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:16:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sara Ellefson
<Sara_Ellefson_at_PO.CHI08@SMTPLINK.INFORES.COM>
Subject: How to get off . . .
You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEAT-L"
command to
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (or
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET).
_
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 09:57:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Todd Bauer <dbe345@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spit In The Ocean
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96011614314182@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from "Bill Gargan" at Jan
16, 96 02:29:06 pm
Yeah there was no
issue #7, I've talked with Ken Babbs and it ceased due to a
lack of interest
and funding. All six published issues
can be purchased from
Key-z
productions.>
> On Mon, 15
Jan 1996 10:48:35 EST Mark Fisher said:
> > This literary journal published by Ken
Kesey in the late 70's, was
> > supposed to have 7 issues. To my knowledge,
publication ceased after
> > the special Neal Cassady Issue #6. Does
anyone know if issue #7 was
> > ever released and if not, why the project
was dropped?
>
> This is also
my understanding. The Brooklyn College
library lists volumes
1-6.
> Don't know
what happened to number 7. Suspect it
wasn't completed.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 14:39:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
You heard
true. We attended the JK Conference last
year in NYC and Jan and
her followers,
(including biographer Gerald Nicosia), were protesting across
the
street because
Jan was not invited to speak or be on any conference panel.
The university
wanted to keep the conference focused on JK's literary works
and
did not want to
get involved with the personal/political friction that is
taking place.
The conference
was well attended, over 200 attendees.
Jan & her followers
were very vocal
and made their presence known throughout the whole conference
including walking
tours and panel discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see any
reason why Jan should be invited to attend a conference on
her father. She only met the man for about fifteen
minutes of his life
and isn't any
kind of scholar.
Does anyone
agree/disagree? Should she be there?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 08:15:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ralph Virgo
<rvirgo@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac (fwd)
You wrote:
>
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
>
>You heard
true. We attended the JK Conference last
year in NYC and
Jan and
>her
followers, (including biographer Gerald Nicosia), were protesting
across
>the
>street
because Jan was not invited to speak or be on any conference
panel.
>The
university wanted to keep the conference focused on JK's literary
works
>and
>did not want
to get involved with the personal/political friction that
is
>taking place.
>The
conference was well attended, over 200 attendees. Jan & her
followers
>were very
vocal and made their presence known throughout the whole
conference
>including
walking tours and panel discussions.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
>I don't see
any reason why Jan should be invited to attend a
conference on
>her
father. She only met the man for about
fifteen minutes of his
life
>and isn't any
kind of scholar.
>
>Does anyone
agree/disagree? Should she be there?
The issue was not
"was she invited to attend."
No one needs an
invitation to
attend; it was an open-to-the-public conference.
The issue, and a
very real one, is that she was not allowed to
participate on
panels.
I, for one, think
that she definitely should have been included on
panels.
She is in fact a
scholar as far as regards her father's work.
She has
presented
numerous times, and knows much about his writing. Granted,
she is not a
formal scholar, as in having an academic appointment. But
then, neither are
Ray Bremster, Lee Renaldo, Andy Clausen, nor a number
of other panel
members formal scholars.
Jan was excluded
from the conference because she wanted to talk about
her and Gerry
Nicosia's efforts to have her father's collected papers
kept intact and
placed in a library. The benefit to me,
you, and other
people interested
in his writing is that the work would be available to
all for research
purposes.
You may want to check
out Jan's Open Letter to NYU, as reprinted in
Inside the
Kerouac Legacy
(http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Topics/IKL.html)
Ralph Virgo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:23:39 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@SUN3.CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: ghosts of kerouac and ginsberg
spotted
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
In-Reply-To: <30D9CE61@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
tanks mon....of course 'tis so, as i'm a
potate in disguise and can
only tink/rite in pomes. (pommes de terre).....fws
On Thu, 21 Dec
1995, Ritter, Chris D wrote:
> >The
"ONE WAY" to experience NYC, MAN: late (2-4 am) wandering around
Times
>
>Square--Greyound Bus Station area, taking in the mildly violent vibes and
> >talking
to whichever black prostitutes want to talk (I did this during my
> >1 golden
month back in the "land of the free" in august, by the way)
> >about
how things have "gotten much more tense and violent" in this area
> >of nyc,
late at night.....(but only talking, of course), and only THEN
> >hitting
one of those amazing pulsating-with-energy late-nite bars where
>
>men/women and black/white/jewish/whatever talk and laugh with wondrous
> >freedom
and openness and the vibes are (after all) very good indeed.....
> >(as only
then has one, in a sense, earned this pavlovian reward)....
> >
> > fws
>
> Was it
simply me or did this seem amazingly poetic? With a little reworking
> on the
format I'd say you've got a hard poem here..
>
> ..Critter
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:47:40 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@SUN3.CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Baraka
In-Reply-To:
<199601112309.SAA04397@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com>
Right: I saw this term in Paul Breslin's
book, "The Psycho-Political
Muse," where
Breslin says the "new American poetry" of late 50's/early
60's (including
AG as "representative poet" but also Plath, Levertov,
Wright, Duncan,
Olson, Snyder etc.)--which saw itself as a VERY
ORIGINAL/RADICAL
reaction to academic/formalist poetry of 50's and New
Criticism, a
radical expression of the unconscious, irrational etc
etc--was in fact
NOT ORIGINAL but an expression of current cultural
discourses
including (neo-)Freudian psychology and CONFORMITY CRITICS =
writers like
Riesman Glazer Denney's "The Lonely Crowd" (1950), C.W.
Mills'
"White Collar" (1951), W.H. Whyte's "The Organization Man"
(1956),
V. Packard's
"The Hidden Persuaders" (1957) among others: these guys are
attacking the
"mindless conformity" of post-war american society, esp. in
terms of
corporate hierarchies, "middle class" values, consumerism
etc...Breslin
shows the similarities of these arguments to those of
Marcuse and RD
Laing in their books in the 60's, (One-Dimensional Man,
The Divided
Self), those "bibles" of the "New Left" as I recall.....
(Breslin says AG's Molloch in
"Howl" = America as evil superego-beast
= mindless
mouthing of currently fashionable cultural discourse, esp.
Freudiansim.....)....fws,
taipei
On Thu, 11 Jan
1996, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
> On Jan 03,
1996 11:02:31, 'Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>' wrote:
>
>
>
>"conformity criticism"
>
> Could you
define the above for me?
>
> Thanks
>
> Damien
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:39:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Converted from OV/VM to RFC822 format by
PUMP V2.2X
From: mah0rd1 <MAH0RD1@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: beat
I would like to subscribe to the beat-l
generation list group
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:23:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat
> I would like
to subscribe to the beat-l generation list group
Great -- but what
you need to do is send the command to another address:
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
with the message
(in the subject line) subscribe beat-l
Also put this
message in your text.
I _think_ that'll
do it!
See ya,
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:14:52 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<bughouse@bolowski.netcaf.telegate.se>
From: Fredrik Oester
<bughouse@BOLOWSKI.NETCAF.TELEGATE.SE>
Subject: kerouac plays
Hello,
We are talking
about putting up a theatre play about Kerouac here in
Sweden. I know
about three plays so far. Arthur Knight: King of the
Beatniks Martin
Duberman: Visions of Kerouac Richard Deacon: Angels
Still Falling
(this one was performed in England, so I can find out
more about
it myself)
Are there any
more, and where can I get a copy of them?
If someone knows
anything about this, it would make me a very happy
man...
a big hug from
Sweden,
Fredde:
bughouse@netcaf.telegate.se
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:30:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac plays
Wouldn't it be
great if there existed some kind of evidence remaining from
the Lillian
Hellman exercise... wasn't it tentatively titled "The Beat
Generation"?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:11:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac plays
I saw another
Kerouac play at the Black Box Theatre, New York University in
1994 titled
"The Last Stop, Will and Testament of Saint Jark Kerouac", by
James P.
Mirrione. It was good, not great, seemed
to be a mostly amatuer
presentation. I doubt it's been published. Basically it was a series of
encounters with
figures like Allen G., Neal, Memere, Burroughs, etc., and
there was
something about a imaginary cab ride as a trip back through time.
Hope that helps. You might get a copy through the Theatre
Dept. at NYU,
sorry I don't have
thier address but it should be pretty easy to find.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:49:09 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON
<abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat
Cool,just send to
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
in the message
body write: subscribe beat-l
I think that's
it................................James.....
--
of Course life
being just a Reflex you know since Everything is
Relative or to
sum it ALL UP god being Dead(not to mention in
Terred) LONG LIVE
that Upwardlooking Serene Illustrious and Lord
of
Creation,MAN.........................................e.e.c.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:50:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Diprima
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:29:12 +0800
from
<akir1@SINGNET.COM.SG>
I too enjoy Di
Prima's work. Several items listed in Books
In Print and she's
working on an
autobiography soon to be published.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:15:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Diprima
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
I too enjoy Di
Prima's work. Several items listed in
Books In Print and she's
working on an
autobiography soon to be published.
I heard she was
ill. In fact, her 1995 reading tour was cancelled.
Can anyone
confirm this? Has she recovered?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:32:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Kiriazis <Kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
Subject: Catching up
>
>
>>>
>>>I
have been away from my computer and mail for some time and would like
to respond to a
few postings. My apologies if I am
repeating other's responses.
>>>Inquiry
from Fredrik Oester concerning plays about Kerouac... Two years
ago at the Beat
Generation Conference at New york University, a new play was
presented: "The Last Stop, Will and Testament of
St. Jack Kerouac" written
by James Mirrione
and directed by Peter Bennett. The play
was commissioned
by NYU for the
conference and ran about two weeks in May 1994.
The play was
quite good and I
spoke to Tom Boras, who composed the music, directed the
band and played
saxaphone, about a year later. At that
time they were
looking to
publish the play and possibly send it on a tour. He said there
was some interest
in that. I haven't heard anything since
then(last June).
Tom Boras is on
the faculty at NYU. This play is worth
exploring.
>>>
>>>Someone
had asked about the movie released a few years ago dealing with
the Life of Allen
Ginsberg. Entitled "The Life and
Times of Allen
Ginsberg",
it was released in 1992 by 1st Run Features.
The director was
Jerry
Aronson. I was lucky to find the video
at the local video rental
although it may
not be widely distributed.
>>>
>>>Finally
in response to the individual who asked about the newsletter
"Dharma
Beat", it is published twice a year
with all kinds of good beat
stuff. Only $5/year- not bad-subscibe for two
years! The address is
Dharma beat, Box
1753, Lowell, MA 01853-1753. Seriously,
its a great
newsletter.
>>>
>>>Bill
Kiriazis
>>>
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:53:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: The Buk
I would like to recommend a new movie to
all you Bukowski fans.
"Leaving Las Vegas" comes real
close to capturing the spirit of
Henry Chinaski's netherworld of alcohol
and broken dreams.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:24:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: beat
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:39:48 EST from
<MAH0RD1@SIVM.SI.EDU>
To subscribe,
send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
Leave the subject
line blank. In the body of your mail type: subscribe beat-l your name.
That's all there
is to it. If you have any problems,
contact me at
wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 02:28:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nels A Nelson <Nels68Me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Buk
I might also
recommend reading the book the movie is based on.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill
Lawlor <wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
Subject: big apple beat
I will be in New
York February 1-4 and would like to do stuff around
town. Perhaps I'll go over to the Whitney on
Thursday between 4 and 6
(free
admission). Perhaps I'll go down to the
Berg Collection at the
42nd Street
Library and check out the Ann Charters contribution and some
of the other
stuff in the holdings.
Does anybody know
anything about a place called Tramps? I
think Billy Preston
and Buddy Guy are
performing there on Friday night and perhaps that show
would be worth
seeing. Is the environment in any way appealing or does it
drag the mind,
abuse the soul?
Are there any
readings on tap? I'm going to miss Corso
at the Whitney--I
think he speaks a
day or two before I arrive. Are other
readers on tap?
Where? At what
price?
By the way,
thanks for the listing of WWW-documents on Beat Generation
literature and
life. Very useful! I look forward to the promised updates.
Bill of the North
Woods
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:19:26 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mat Awad <mawad01@MAIL.ORION.ORG>
Subject: DR. JONES
Just a curious note...I am taking a
Kerouac class at Southwest
Missouri State
University (MECCA OF KNOWLEDGE) and have an instructor
whose name, as
you might guess, is DR. JONES (Jim?). I think I may have
heard mention of
him on this list and was wondering if any of you might
have stories
which could embarrass him. Any "hellos" will also be given.
thanks, mat
P.S. If, heaven
forbid, someone might consider this a "non-list" topic,
feel free to
E-Mail me at mawad01@orion.org.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 16:31:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: Diane DiPrima
Does anyone know
of a bibliography of Diane DiPrima as a poet and as a
publisher. Also what is the relationship of Floating
Bear and the American
Theater for Poets
Bot had the same address in Cooper Square in mid-60's.
Thanks,
Dan Lauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 00:24:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: DR. JONES
Say hello to him
from Mitchell Smith and tell him to give me a call. You
might try
embarrassing him with tales that he is a notorious midnight pool
shark.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:13:40 -0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gabriel Enriquez
<gabriel@ATILA.OVERNET.COM.AR>
Subject: 60's music
Hello, I'm from
Argentina and I'm very interested in interchanging
information about
60's music from the psychedelic era . I know this is not
exactly the
subject of this list, but I would appreciatte any information
about it. Any
idea of any related list?
Thanx a lot.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:03:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: First Smithsonian Class
Howard Park and
myself attended the first class of "Rebel Poets of the 1950s"
last
Thursday. Many of the folks were reading
OTR for the first time and had
a negative
response to it. It certainly makes me
curious as to why they
would sign up for
such a course. It seems as the course
will be interesting,
though not in the
way originally envisioned. It's like
Newty has planted his
own spies in the
class to see what we are up to -- the 90s are starting to
feel more and
more like the 50s all the time.
Another thought
on OTR comes to mind. There is a line, I
believe when they
are in Colorado
where one of the characters says something like: Dean is
just a con man,
an interesting con man, but a con man none-the-less. Of
course this is a
question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
they just
cons. Of the major religions, the one
that comes closest to
saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
-- and I include
Taoism in the same camp). So I ask the
list: Is that the
major conclusion
of OTR?
Regards,
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:12:19 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
>Of
>course this
is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
>they just
cons. Of the major religions, the one
that comes closest to
>saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>-- and I
include Taoism in the same camp).
Um, uh...I think
you should back up this statement. Why
would you say this?
>So I ask the
list: Is that the
>major
conclusion of OTR?
>
No.
What statement
would casue you to think this? How would
a line in the book
about Dean
Moriarty being a con man cause to you then apply this to
religion? It is out of the blue. Does it also inspire you to ask if all
philosophers are
just interesting cons?
>Regards,
>Perry
Lindstrom
Regards back at
you, keep on trucking dude.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:59:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane DiPrima
>Does anyone
know of a bibliography of Diane DiPrima as a poet and as a
>publisher.
You might want to
try: "The Beats: Literary Bohemians in Postwar America."
Vol. 16, Parts
1&2 of "Dictionary of Literary Biography." It's edited by Ann
Charters (big
surprise) and is published by Gale Research Co. (I have no idea
where to find
this). But there is a biobliographical essay on DiPrima in here
written by George
F. Butterick. Perhaps this will have what you're looking
for. Sorry I don't have more info. on this. Good
luck!
Liz.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:15:51 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: <v01510100ad316bb74974@[128.125.222.39]>
from "Timothy K.
Gallaher" at Jan 28, 96
10:12:19 am
> >course
this is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
> >they
just cons. Of the major religions, the
one that comes closest to
> >saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
> >-- and I
include Taoism in the same camp).
I think I get
what Perry is saying, and kind of agree.
In the book, Sal
Paradise places
himself in Dean Moriarty's hands, in a sense "submitting"
to him blindly
the way a religous seeker might submit himself to a guru
or other religous
leader.
And yet he
recognizes that Dean is a natural con-man, and that while
Dean can always
be trusted to find some kind of magic in life, he cannot
be trusted in any
practical sense. To use a real life
example, in Carolyn
Cassady's
autobiography, "Off The Road," Carolyn describes how she would
not put her home
at risk to bail Neal Cassady (the real life Dean) out
of jail because
she knew he would run away and she'd lose the home. And
yet she still
loved him and wanted him back. The idea
is that you can
entrust yourself
to a person who can't even be trusted, and one reason a
person might
choose to do so is that they see some cosmic truth in the
relationship --
that if there is a God he also cannot be trusted in
any practical
sense.
I see this as
consistent with Kerouac's world view, and I think it is
one of the hidden
ideas that lie beneath "On The Road."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"people tell me it's
a sin
to know and feel too much
within"
-- bob dylan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:05:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: God in OTR
You ask if the
major conclusion of OTR is that god is a con-man. Well, in the
last page, Jack
says, "And don't you know that God is Pooh Bear?" And Pooh
bear is sort of
befuddled, but always well-meaning or (as B. Hoff would say
in Tao of Pooh)
the epitomy of the uncarved block. Very
Zen-like. But not a
con-man.
Who knows why JK
made this comment at the end of OTR - as out of context as
it was. Maybe it
was some random thought that just came into his mind, maybe
he really meant
something by it? (anyone want to pretend to understand how
his mind
worked?).
Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:58:43 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
>>
>course this is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions
-- are
>> >they
just cons. Of the major religions, the
one that comes closest to
>> >saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>> >--
and I include Taoism in the same camp).
>
>And yet he
recognizes that Dean is a natural con-man, and that while
>Dean can
always be trusted to find some kind of magic in life, he cannot
>be trusted in
any practical sense.
Quotes coming to
mind in considering Neal:
"A young
jailkid shrouded in mystery." - OTR
"Con-man
extraordinaire" - Dylan and Ferlinghetti (or another Beat poet - I
forget which) on
Allen Ginnsberg
Hope these help
clarify what Mr. Asher means.
Alan Maddrell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:00:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane DiPrima (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
You might want to
try: "The Beats: Literary Bohemians in Postwar America."
Vol. 16, Parts
1&2 of "Dictionary of Literary Biography." It's edited by Ann
Charters (big
surprise) and is published by Gale Research Co. (I have no idea
where to find
this).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most libraries
will have the entire collection of the DLB - it's about 300
big tomes usually
located in the reference section. I
don't think you'd
want to try to
purchase it as it will be incredible expensive.
It is an
excellent
reference book on the Beats and Co. though.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:25:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch <PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: GINSBERG AND MEDITATION
I was wondering
if anyone was aware if Allen Ginsberg studied meditation with
Swami Muktananda
before studying with Chogyam Trungpa. If
so, was the
association
short-lived or what?
Thanks!
Paul McDonald
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:57:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: God in OTR
As Liz suggested,
I think that it is best to approach much of Kerouac's
writings as
"random thoughts" rather than clues to a well-defined worldview.
This was spontanious prose after all!
JK did attempt to
outline such worldviews at times, but he was at his best
with spontanious
prose. JK was a writer of his
experiences, not really a
philosopher. He was always the wide-eyed kid...wondering
in awe, not the
priest twirling
around the incense.
I believe Jack
was a seeker who, like most of us, never exactly made it to
Nirvana (more
than a few of us have stopped off for too long at the corner
bar on the
path). Most of these thoughts are in the
nature of speculations
about what might
be around the corner, figeratively or literally, not
conclusions. Jack as seeker is one reason why OTR and the
other road books
are most
appealing to young people at whatever age the young or young at
heart are in a
seeker mode.
BY THE WAY - Any
Washington, DC area devotees of this list are invited to a
party at my place
on Capitol Hill this Sat., Feb. 3, e mail Hpark4@aol.com
for details. Let's continue the discussion in person!
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:44:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill
Lawlor <wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: your message
of Sun Jan 28 11:03:16 -0500 1996
Glad to learn of
course on Rebel Poets of the fifties. Please, if you continue
to attend, keep
us posted. The attack on OTR is
predictable. That's why Jack
went out and got
drunk, isn't it?
Complaints that I
have heard in class are that the book is boring. It
rambles, the
detractors say, in the way Huckleberry Finn rambles, and both OTR
and HF are turds.
Detractors also object to the treatment of women. Why
glorify a
bigamist?
Bill of the North
Woods
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:40:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Beats and Buddhism
Can anyone out
there give me information on when and how the Beats got
into
Buddhism? I know the "Why?"
but realized after teaching them last
term that I
couldn't make the historical connections.
I remember Anne
Waldman and
others speaking about this two summers ago at NYU but took no
notes, alas.
Respond privately
if you like.
Thanks,
Dan Terkla
Dept. of English
Illinois Wesleyan
University
Bloomington, IL
61702
(309) 556-3649
terkla@titan.iwu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:27:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Buddhism
At 03:40 PM
1/29/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Can anyone
out there give me information on when and how the Beats got
>into
Buddhism? I know the "Why?"
but realized after teaching them last
>term that I
couldn't make the historical connections.
I remember Anne
>Waldman and
others speaking about this two summers ago at NYU but took no
>notes, alas.
>
>Respond
privately if you like.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan Terkla
>
>Dept. of
English
>Illinois
Wesleyan University
>Bloomington,
IL 61702
>(309)
556-3649
>terkla@titan.iwu.edu
>
>
About the beats
in general I can't say. Gary Snyder and
Kerouac acquired
their interests
independently and previous to their meeting one another.
In terms of
Kerouac I think that his initial "discovery" of Buddhism came in
reaction to the
Cassadys embrace of Edgar Cayce. I think Kerouac did not
share their
enthusiasm for Cayce but shared their interest in spiritual
matters and this
lead him to the library where he found Buddhism. I think
he intially found
a lot of Buddhist writings in French.
I believe that
Ginsberg did not share Kerouac's interest in Buddhism til
much later. Burroughs never has shared the interest.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:56:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs and Jesus
Hello folks.
William Miller
here.
I read in a book
(sorry, don't have the author's name or the title handy),
but I believe
that the title was _New York in the Fifties_, where Ginsberg
told the author
about Burroughs' works of late:
something about
Burroughs just completing a trilogy
something about
him living in KS and recently celebrating a b'day (77 i
think)
And something
about him writing a novel with Jesus Christ as the protagonist,
"breaking
the fundamentalists' monopoly on Jesus".
I realize fully
that Ginsberg may have been mistaken, misled, or just plain
lying.
But has anyone on
the list heard of ANY work by Burroughs which features
Jesus Christ as
the protagonist, hero, anti-hero, or
otherwise-main-character?
Regards,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:37:32 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Burroughs & Jesus
For a hilarious
Jesus mention in WSB, check out the lates release GHOST
OF CHANCE,
written in late eighties. Some may find the Jesus story
offensive, guess
that's why we love Bill eh?
Best
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:07:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:03:16 -0500
from
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
On Sun, 28 Jan
1996 11:03:16 -0500 Perry Lindstrom said:
>Howard Park
and myself attended the first class of "Rebel Poets of the 1950s"
>last
Thursday. Many of the folks were reading
OTR for the first time and had
>a negative response
to it. It certainly makes me curious as
to why they
>would sign up
for such a course. It seems as the
course will be interesting,
>though not in
the way originally envisioned. It's like
Newty has planted his
>own spies in
the class to see what we are up to -- the 90s are starting to
>feel more and
more like the 50s all the time.
>
>Another
thought on OTR comes to mind. There is a
line, I believe when they
>are in
Colorado where one of the characters says something like: Dean is
>just a con
man, an interesting con man, but a con man none-the-less. Of
>course this
is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
>they just
cons. Of the major religions, the one
that comes closest to
>saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>-- and I
include Taoism in the same camp). So I
ask the list: Is that the
>major
conclusion of OTR?
>
>Regards,
>Perry
Lindstrom
I can't agree
that this is a major or even a *minor* conclusion that I would dr
aw from OTR. But it's an interesting notion and I'd like
to hear more of your
thoughts about
it. Have you seen the exhibit at the
National Portrait Gallery.
I'd be interested
in any comparisons to the Whitney exhibit.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:11:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:44:22 -0500
from
<wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
On Mon, 29 Jan
1996 15:44:22 -0500 Bill Lawlor said:
>Glad to learn
of course on Rebel Poets of the fifties. Please, if you continue
>to attend,
keep us posted. The attack on OTR is
predictable. That's why Jack
>went out and
got drunk, isn't it?
>
>Complaints
that I have heard in class are that the book is boring. It
>rambles, the
detractors say, in the way Huckleberry Finn rambles, and both OTR
>and HF are
turds. Detractors also object to the treatment of women. Why
>glorify a
bigamist?
>
>Bill of the
North Woods
"Glorify a bigamist?" What myopic readers! Bigamy, sex, cars, music -- these
are not the real
issue. The point is that Neal wants it
ALL!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:33:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:15:51 -0800
from
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
On Sun, 28 Jan
1996 19:15:51 -0800 Levi Asher said:
>>
>course this is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions --
>are
>> >they
just cons. Of the major religions, the
one that comes closest to
>>
>saying: "God IS an interesting
con man," would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>> >--
and I include Taoism in the same camp).
>
>I think I get
what Perry is saying, and kind of agree.
In the book, Sal
>Paradise
places himself in Dean Moriarty's hands, in a sense "submitting"
>to him
blindly the way a religous seeker might submit himself to a guru
>or other
religous leader.
>
>And yet he
recognizes that Dean is a natural con-man, and that while
>Dean can
always be trusted to find some kind of magic in life, he cannot
>be trusted in
any practical sense. To use a real life
example, in Carolyn
>Cassady's
autobiography, "Off The Road," Carolyn describes how she would
>not put her
home at risk to bail Neal Cassady (the real life Dean) out
>of jail
because she knew he would run away and she'd lose the home. And
>yet she still
loved him and wanted him back. The idea
is that you can
>entrust
yourself to a person who can't even be trusted, and one reason a
>person might
choose to do so is that they see some cosmic truth in the
>relationship
-- that if there is a God he also cannot be trusted in
>any practical
sense.
>
>I see this as
consistent with Kerouac's world view, and I think it is
>one of the
hidden ideas that lie beneath "On The Road."
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock
album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
>
> "people tell me it's
a sin
> to know and feel too much
within"
> -- bob dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't
know. I have a problem associating
Moriarty with God. Dean too is a s
eeker, a man with
his own quest on several levels. Both
Dean and Sal are looki
ng for IT!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:39:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: big apple beat
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:42 -0500
from
<wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
On Fri, 26 Jan
1996 15:21:42 -0500 Bill Lawlor said:
>I will be in
New York February 1-4 and would like to do stuff around
>town. Perhaps I'll go over to the Whitney on
Thursday between 4 and 6
>(free
admission). Perhaps I'll go down to the
Berg Collection at the
>42nd Street
Library and check out the Ann Charters contribution and some
>of the other
stuff in the holdings.
>
>Does anybody
know anything about a place called Tramps?
I think Billy Preston
>and Buddy Guy
are performing there on Friday night and perhaps that show
>would be
worth seeing. Is the environment in any way appealing or does it
>drag the
mind, abuse the soul?
>
>Are there any
readings on tap? I'm going to miss Corso
at the Whitney--I
>think he
speaks a day or two before I arrive. Are
other readers on tap?
>Where? At
what price?
>
>By the way,
thanks for the listing of WWW-documents on Beat Generation
>literature
and life. Very useful! I look forward to the promised updates.
>
>Bill of the
North Woods
This might be of
interest to you as well as others on the list:
Amiri Baraka e
t al. will be
appearing Friday Feb. 2nd (James Joyce's birthday) at the Westbet
h Theater 151
Bank Street, NYC. Tickets $15. Call 212 631 1065 for more info.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:02:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: Burroughs and Jesus
>something
about him living in KS and recently celebrating a b'day (77 i
>think)
Lives in
Lawrence, Kansas. I recently purchased a "Happy 80th Birthday
William
Burroughs" book published by Temple Press, so either the book you
have is quite old
or someone is very mistaken. I doubt Ginnsberg would make
so embarassing an
error.
>But has
anyone on the list heard of ANY work by Burroughs which features
>Jesus Christ
as the protagonist, hero, anti-hero, or
>otherwise-main-character?
Personally I have
heard nothing about Jesus as a main character himself, but
I am in the
backwaters at the moment, so this is not a surprise! I know that
a few of his
characters bear a sort of resemblence in their benevolence.
Alan Maddrell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:44:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: raw3%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: Beats and Buddhism
>Can anyone
out there give me information on when and how the Beats got
>into
Buddhism? I know the "Why?"
but realized after teaching them last
>term that I
couldn't make the historical connections.
I remember Anne
>Waldman and
others speaking about this two summers ago at NYU but took no
>notes, alas.
>
there's many
reasons why the Beats got into buddhism - a lot to do, perhaps,
with the West
Coast connection, Alan Watts and co. But
there is a wider
historical link
with Eastern religions in American (and European) thought -
a book I'm just
tackling at the moment (with regard specifically to
background on
Kerouac's involvement with Buddhism re. Mexico City Blues) is
'Zen and American
Thought' by Van Meter Ames, (Honolulu: University of Hawai
Press, 1962,
Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number 62-12672) which
attempts to
contextualise the American interest in Zen.
Ames goes back to
Locke and
forwards through Jefferson, Emerson, who he calls the American
Bodhisattva,
Thoreau, Whitman etc. He is making a
specific connection
between Zen and a
large starnd of American culture.
Haven't read it all
yet, so can't say
how successful his argument is, and he doesn't deal with
the Beats
specifically. But it may be of some
help.
Rod Warner,
University of Aberytswyth, Wales, UK.
raw3@aber.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:46:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Buddhism
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.iwu.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199601311045.KAA24363@nje.earn-relay.ja.net>
Many thanks to
all who responded to my query about the early connections
between the Beats
and Buddhism. Off to the library.
Dan Terkla
Dept.of English
Illinois Wesleyan
University
Bloomington, IL
61702
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:28:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs birthday Friday
Hey again folks.
William Miller
here.
Alan Madrell
wrote about Burroughs 80th birthday book.
Just to clear up
any confusion about the old man's age:
He turns 82 on
Friday, February 5...
thanks to the 3
who answered me about "Ghost of Chance". AG was certainly
exaggerating in
the quote, where he says that Burroughs was "writing up a
storm". At less than 100 pages, Ghost of Chance is
certainly no storm.
Does anyone have
any recent info on the old man's health or productivity as
of late?
William Miller.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:11:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Igor Satanovsky <Isat@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and Jesus
>But has
anyone on the list heard of ANY work by Burroughs which features
>Jesus Christ
as the protagonist, hero, anti-hero, or
>otherwise-main-character?
Just a hint:
Check out Burroughs recording called, if
i remember correctly,
"Dead City
Radio".
i.s.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:16:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR negative response
"Many of the
folks were reading OTR for the first time and had
a negative
response to it"
One legitimate
negative reponse I think has to do with the casual disregard
the protagonists
have for personal responsibility. And I
don't say this as a
cultural
conservative myself. But ditching
marriages and women bringing up
your kids is a hard
thing to justify in real life; the defense of it comes a)
by
recontextualizing the novel and pointing out how conformist the 50s were
(as has been
spoken to often by many on the list), and b) pointing to Sal's
defense of Dean
in the book, when he's "on trial" before all the women (a
good scene to
have in the book, showing JK wasn't eliding the issue but was
conscious of the
pain caused innocents by the constant pursuit of experience
by the men in
their lives); Sal says something to the effect of: you all WANT
to hang out with
this guy, are interested in him, and he is who he is so you
have to take the
bad with the good. But rereading the
article on Children of
the Beats (on the
list a few months ago) makes clear that there's plenty to
dislike about the
lives Beat explorations sanctioned. You
can say that these
guys were
involved in spiritual quests, but what religious philosophy
condones leaving
people who depend on you miserable through carelessness and,
indeed, selfish
pursuit of your own spiritual ends?
But I like the
book and these writers -- the argument I'm making is not my
own overriding
concern. Which leads me to another
aspect of OTR rarely
mentioned, it
seems. That is, for all its exhileration
with experience and
language, it is
finally a very SAD book. Most of Kerouac
is indeed permeated
with misery and
lament. Even Dean at the end is stuck in
a type of rut, and
Sal himself
experiences betrayal by Dean when left sick in Mexico: "Okay,
Dean, I'll say
nothing." Abandoning social
structures does come at a price
-- the best
defense against the above accusations, to my mind, that the novel
acknowledges that
these lives (Sal's own, Dean's, etc.) can't be maintained,
destroy too
much. And yet, live the other way? Not on your life.
On "pooh
bear" at end, briefly: isn't this the projection of what the people
living in these
sleepy households the narrator surveys at the end of the
book, what THEY
are thinking, not the narrator's view at all?
Be careful
making the mistake
of confusing fiction with actual authors lives, even in
such an
autobiographically influenced work as this.
Ted Pelton
only tink/rite in pomes. (pommes de
terre).....fws
On Thu, 21 Dec
1995, Ritter, Chris D wrote:
> >The
"ONE WAY" to experience NYC, MAN: late (2-4 am) wandering around
Times
>
>Square--Greyound Bus Station area, taking in the mildly violent vibes and
> >talking
to whichever black prostitutes want to talk (I did this during my
> >1 golden
month back in the "land of the free" in august, by the way)
> >about
how things have "gotten much more tense and violent" in this area
> >of nyc,
late at night.....(but only talking, of course), and only THEN
> >hitting
one of those amazing pulsating-with-energy late-nite bars where
>
>men/women and black/white/jewish/whatever talk and laugh with wondrous
> >freedom
and openness and the vibes are (after all) very good indeed.....
> >(as only
then has one, in a sense, earned this pavlovian reward)....
> >
> > fws
>
> Was it simply
me or did this seem amazingly poetic? With a little reworking
> on the
format I'd say you've got a hard poem here..
>
> ..Critter
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:47:40 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@SUN3.CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Baraka
In-Reply-To:
<199601112309.SAA04397@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com>
Right: I saw this term in Paul Breslin's
book, "The Psycho-Political
Muse," where
Breslin says the "new American poetry" of late 50's/early
60's (including
AG as "representative poet" but also Plath, Levertov,
Wright, Duncan,
Olson, Snyder etc.)--which saw itself as a VERY
ORIGINAL/RADICAL
reaction to academic/formalist poetry of 50's and New
Criticism, a
radical expression of the unconscious, irrational etc
etc--was in fact
NOT ORIGINAL but an expression of current cultural
discourses
including (neo-)Freudian psychology and CONFORMITY CRITICS =
writers like
Riesman Glazer Denney's "The Lonely Crowd" (1950), C.W.
Mills'
"White Collar" (1951), W.H. Whyte's "The Organization Man"
(1956),
V. Packard's
"The Hidden Persuaders" (1957) among others: these guys are
attacking the
"mindless conformity" of post-war american society, esp. in
terms of
corporate hierarchies, "middle class" values, consumerism
etc...Breslin
shows the similarities of these arguments to those of
Marcuse and RD
Laing in their books in the 60's, (One-Dimensional Man,
The Divided
Self), those "bibles" of the "New Left" as I recall.....
(Breslin says AG's Molloch in
"Howl" = America as evil superego-beast
= mindless
mouthing of currently fashionable cultural discourse, esp.
Freudiansim.....)....fws,
taipei
On Thu, 11 Jan
1996, Christopher C. Hayes wrote:
> On Jan 03,
1996 11:02:31, 'Frank Stevenson <t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>' wrote:
>
>
>
>"conformity criticism"
>
> Could you
define the above for me?
>
> Thanks
>
> Damien
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:39:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Converted from OV/VM to RFC822 format by
PUMP V2.2X
From: mah0rd1 <MAH0RD1@SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject: beat
I would like to subscribe to the beat-l generation
list group
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:23:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat
> I would like
to subscribe to the beat-l generation list group
Great -- but what
you need to do is send the command to another address:
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
with the message
(in the subject line) subscribe beat-l
Also put this
message in your text.
I _think_ that'll
do it!
See ya,
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:14:52 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<bughouse@bolowski.netcaf.telegate.se>
From: Fredrik Oester <bughouse@BOLOWSKI.NETCAF.TELEGATE.SE>
Subject: kerouac plays
Hello,
We are talking
about putting up a theatre play about Kerouac here in
Sweden. I know
about three plays so far. Arthur Knight: King of the
Beatniks Martin
Duberman: Visions of Kerouac Richard Deacon: Angels
Still Falling
(this one was performed in England, so I can find out
more about
it myself)
Are there any
more, and where can I get a copy of them?
If someone knows
anything about this, it would make me a very happy
man...
a big hug from
Sweden,
Fredde:
bughouse@netcaf.telegate.se
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:30:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac plays
Wouldn't it be
great if there existed some kind of evidence remaining from
the Lillian
Hellman exercise... wasn't it tentatively titled "The Beat
Generation"?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:11:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac plays
I saw another
Kerouac play at the Black Box Theatre, New York University in
1994 titled
"The Last Stop, Will and Testament of Saint Jark Kerouac", by
James P.
Mirrione. It was good, not great, seemed
to be a mostly amatuer
presentation. I doubt it's been published. Basically it was a series of
encounters with
figures like Allen G., Neal, Memere, Burroughs, etc., and
there was
something about a imaginary cab ride as a trip back through time.
Hope that helps. You might get a copy through the Theatre
Dept. at NYU,
sorry I don't
have thier address but it should be pretty easy to find.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:49:09 -0700
Reply-To: abcad@aztec.asu.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JAMES ATKERSON <abcad@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat
Cool,just send to
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
in the message
body write: subscribe beat-l
I think that's
it................................James.....
--
of Course life
being just a Reflex you know since Everything is
Relative or to
sum it ALL UP god being Dead(not to mention in
Terred) LONG LIVE
that Upwardlooking Serene Illustrious and Lord
of
Creation,MAN.........................................e.e.c.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:50:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Diprima
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:29:12 +0800
from
<akir1@SINGNET.COM.SG>
I too enjoy Di
Prima's work. Several items listed in
Books In Print and she's
working on an
autobiography soon to be published.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:15:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher <Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Diprima
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
I too enjoy Di
Prima's work. Several items listed in
Books In Print and she's
working on an
autobiography soon to be published.
I heard she was
ill. In fact, her 1995 reading tour was cancelled.
Can anyone
confirm this? Has she recovered?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:32:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Kiriazis <Kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
Subject: Catching up
>
>
>>>
>>>I
have been away from my computer and mail for some time and would like
to respond to a
few postings. My apologies if I am
repeating other's responses.
>>>Inquiry
from Fredrik Oester concerning plays about Kerouac... Two years
ago at the Beat
Generation Conference at New york University, a new play was
presented: "The Last Stop, Will and Testament of
St. Jack Kerouac" written
by James Mirrione
and directed by Peter Bennett. The play
was commissioned
by NYU for the
conference and ran about two weeks in May 1994. The play was
quite good and I
spoke to Tom Boras, who composed the music, directed the
band and played
saxaphone, about a year later. At that
time they were
looking to
publish the play and possibly send it on a tour. He said there
was some interest
in that. I haven't heard anything since
then(last June).
Tom Boras is on
the faculty at NYU. This play is worth
exploring.
>>>
>>>Someone
had asked about the movie released a few years ago dealing with
the Life of Allen
Ginsberg. Entitled "The Life and
Times of Allen
Ginsberg",
it was released in 1992 by 1st Run Features.
The director was
Jerry
Aronson. I was lucky to find the video
at the local video rental
although it may
not be widely distributed.
>>>
>>>Finally
in response to the individual who asked about the newsletter
"Dharma
Beat", it is published twice a year
with all kinds of good beat
stuff. Only $5/year- not bad-subscibe for two
years! The address is
Dharma beat, Box
1753, Lowell, MA 01853-1753. Seriously,
its a great
newsletter.
>>>
>>>Bill
Kiriazis
>>>
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:53:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: The Buk
I would like to recommend a new movie to
all you Bukowski fans.
"Leaving Las Vegas" comes real
close to capturing the spirit of
Henry Chinaski's netherworld of alcohol
and broken dreams.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:24:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: beat
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:39:48 EST from
<MAH0RD1@SIVM.SI.EDU>
To subscribe,
send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
Leave the subject
line blank. In the body of your mail type: subscribe beat-l your name.
That's all there
is to it. If you have any problems,
contact me at
wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 02:28:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nels A Nelson <Nels68Me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Buk
I might also
recommend reading the book the movie is based on.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill
Lawlor <wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
Subject: big apple beat
I will be in New
York February 1-4 and would like to do stuff around
town. Perhaps I'll go over to the Whitney on
Thursday between 4 and 6
(free
admission). Perhaps I'll go down to the
Berg Collection at the
42nd Street
Library and check out the Ann Charters contribution and some
of the other stuff
in the holdings.
Does anybody know
anything about a place called Tramps? I
think Billy Preston
and Buddy Guy are
performing there on Friday night and perhaps that show
would be worth
seeing. Is the environment in any way appealing or does it
drag the mind,
abuse the soul?
Are there any
readings on tap? I'm going to miss Corso
at the Whitney--I
think he speaks a
day or two before I arrive. Are other
readers on tap?
Where? At what
price?
By the way,
thanks for the listing of WWW-documents on Beat Generation
literature and
life. Very useful! I look forward to the promised updates.
Bill of the North
Woods
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:19:26 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mat Awad
<mawad01@MAIL.ORION.ORG>
Subject: DR. JONES
Just a curious note...I am taking a
Kerouac class at Southwest
Missouri State
University (MECCA OF KNOWLEDGE) and have an instructor
whose name, as
you might guess, is DR. JONES (Jim?). I think I may have
heard mention of
him on this list and was wondering if any of you might
have stories which
could embarrass him. Any "hellos" will also be given.
thanks, mat
P.S. If, heaven
forbid, someone might consider this a "non-list" topic,
feel free to
E-Mail me at mawad01@orion.org.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 16:31:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: Diane DiPrima
Does anyone know
of a bibliography of Diane DiPrima as a poet and as a
publisher. Also what is the relationship of Floating
Bear and the American
Theater for Poets
Bot had the same address in Cooper Square in mid-60's.
Thanks,
Dan Lauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 00:24:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: DR. JONES
Say hello to him
from Mitchell Smith and tell him to give me a call. You
might try
embarrassing him with tales that he is a notorious midnight pool
shark.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:13:40 -0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gabriel Enriquez
<gabriel@ATILA.OVERNET.COM.AR>
Subject: 60's music
Hello, I'm from
Argentina and I'm very interested in interchanging
information about
60's music from the psychedelic era . I know this is not
exactly the
subject of this list, but I would appreciatte any information
about it. Any
idea of any related list?
Thanx a lot.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:03:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: First Smithsonian Class
Howard Park and myself
attended the first class of "Rebel Poets of the 1950s"
last
Thursday. Many of the folks were reading
OTR for the first time and had
a negative
response to it. It certainly makes me
curious as to why they
would sign up for
such a course. It seems as the course
will be interesting,
though not in the
way originally envisioned. It's like
Newty has planted his
own spies in the
class to see what we are up to -- the 90s are starting to
feel more and
more like the 50s all the time.
Another thought
on OTR comes to mind. There is a line, I
believe when they
are in Colorado
where one of the characters says something like: Dean is
just a con man,
an interesting con man, but a con man none-the-less. Of
course this is a
question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
they just
cons. Of the major religions, the one
that comes closest to
saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
-- and I include
Taoism in the same camp). So I ask the
list: Is that the
major conclusion
of OTR?
Regards,
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:12:19 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
>Of
>course this
is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
>they just
cons. Of the major religions, the one
that comes closest to
>saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>-- and I
include Taoism in the same camp).
Um, uh...I think
you should back up this statement. Why
would you say this?
>So I ask the
list: Is that the
>major
conclusion of OTR?
>
No.
What statement
would casue you to think this? How would
a line in the book
about Dean
Moriarty being a con man cause to you then apply this to
religion? It is out of the blue. Does it also inspire you to ask if all
philosophers are
just interesting cons?
>Regards,
>Perry
Lindstrom
Regards back at
you, keep on trucking dude.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:59:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diane DiPrima
>Does anyone
know of a bibliography of Diane DiPrima as a poet and as a
>publisher.
You might want to
try: "The Beats: Literary Bohemians in Postwar America."
Vol. 16, Parts
1&2 of "Dictionary of Literary Biography." It's edited by Ann
Charters (big
surprise) and is published by Gale Research Co. (I have no idea
where to find
this). But there is a biobliographical essay on DiPrima in here
written by George
F. Butterick. Perhaps this will have what you're looking
for. Sorry I don't have more info. on this. Good
luck!
Liz.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:15:51 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100ad316bb74974@[128.125.222.39]> from "Timothy K.
Gallaher" at Jan 28, 96
10:12:19 am
> >course
this is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
> >they
just cons. Of the major religions, the
one that comes closest to
>
>saying: "God IS an interesting
con man," would be Buddhism (especially Zen
> >-- and I
include Taoism in the same camp).
I think I get
what Perry is saying, and kind of agree.
In the book, Sal
Paradise places
himself in Dean Moriarty's hands, in a sense "submitting"
to him blindly
the way a religous seeker might submit himself to a guru
or other religous
leader.
And yet he
recognizes that Dean is a natural con-man, and that while
Dean can always
be trusted to find some kind of magic in life, he cannot
be trusted in any
practical sense. To use a real life
example, in Carolyn
Cassady's
autobiography, "Off The Road," Carolyn describes how she would
not put her home
at risk to bail Neal Cassady (the real life Dean) out
of jail because
she knew he would run away and she'd lose the home. And
yet she still
loved him and wanted him back. The idea
is that you can
entrust yourself
to a person who can't even be trusted, and one reason a
person might
choose to do so is that they see some cosmic truth in the
relationship --
that if there is a God he also cannot be trusted in
any practical
sense.
I see this as
consistent with Kerouac's world view, and I think it is
one of the hidden
ideas that lie beneath "On The Road."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"people tell me it's
a sin
to know and feel too much
within"
-- bob dylan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:05:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: God in OTR
You ask if the
major conclusion of OTR is that god is a con-man. Well, in the
last page, Jack
says, "And don't you know that God is Pooh Bear?" And Pooh
bear is sort of
befuddled, but always well-meaning or (as B. Hoff would say
in Tao of Pooh)
the epitomy of the uncarved block. Very
Zen-like. But not a
con-man.
Who knows why JK
made this comment at the end of OTR - as out of context as
it was. Maybe it
was some random thought that just came into his mind, maybe
he really meant
something by it? (anyone want to pretend to understand how
his mind
worked?).
Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:58:43 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
>>
>course this is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions
-- are
>> >they
just cons. Of the major religions, the
one that comes closest to
>>
>saying: "God IS an interesting
con man," would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>> >--
and I include Taoism in the same camp).
>
>And yet he
recognizes that Dean is a natural con-man, and that while
>Dean can
always be trusted to find some kind of magic in life, he cannot
>be trusted in
any practical sense.
Quotes coming to
mind in considering Neal:
"A young
jailkid shrouded in mystery." - OTR
"Con-man
extraordinaire" - Dylan and Ferlinghetti (or another Beat poet - I
forget which) on
Allen Ginnsberg
Hope these help
clarify what Mr. Asher means.
Alan Maddrell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:00:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diane DiPrima (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
You might want to
try: "The Beats: Literary Bohemians in Postwar America."
Vol. 16, Parts
1&2 of "Dictionary of Literary Biography." It's edited by Ann
Charters (big
surprise) and is published by Gale Research Co. (I have no idea
where to find
this).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most libraries
will have the entire collection of the DLB - it's about 300
big tomes usually
located in the reference section. I
don't think you'd
want to try to
purchase it as it will be incredible expensive.
It is an
excellent
reference book on the Beats and Co. though.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:25:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: GINSBERG AND MEDITATION
I was wondering
if anyone was aware if Allen Ginsberg studied meditation with
Swami Muktananda
before studying with Chogyam Trungpa. If
so, was the
association
short-lived or what?
Thanks!
Paul McDonald
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:57:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: God in OTR
As Liz suggested,
I think that it is best to approach much of Kerouac's
writings as
"random thoughts" rather than clues to a well-defined worldview.
This was spontanious prose after all!
JK did attempt to
outline such worldviews at times, but he was at his best
with spontanious
prose. JK was a writer of his
experiences, not really a
philosopher. He was always the wide-eyed kid...wondering
in awe, not the
priest twirling
around the incense.
I believe Jack
was a seeker who, like most of us, never exactly made it to
Nirvana (more
than a few of us have stopped off for too long at the corner
bar on the
path). Most of these thoughts are in the
nature of speculations
about what might
be around the corner, figeratively or literally, not
conclusions. Jack as seeker is one reason why OTR and the
other road books
are most
appealing to young people at whatever age the young or young at
heart are in a
seeker mode.
BY THE WAY - Any
Washington, DC area devotees of this list are invited to a
party at my place
on Capitol Hill this Sat., Feb. 3, e mail Hpark4@aol.com
for details. Let's continue the discussion in person!
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:44:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill
Lawlor <wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
Subject: Re:
First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: your message
of Sun Jan 28 11:03:16 -0500 1996
Glad to learn of
course on Rebel Poets of the fifties. Please, if you continue
to attend, keep
us posted. The attack on OTR is
predictable. That's why Jack
went out and got
drunk, isn't it?
Complaints that I
have heard in class are that the book is boring. It
rambles, the
detractors say, in the way Huckleberry Finn rambles, and both OTR
and HF are turds.
Detractors also object to the treatment of women. Why
glorify a
bigamist?
Bill of the North
Woods
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:40:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Beats and Buddhism
Can anyone out
there give me information on when and how the Beats got
into
Buddhism? I know the "Why?"
but realized after teaching them last
term that I
couldn't make the historical connections.
I remember Anne
Waldman and
others speaking about this two summers ago at NYU but took no
notes, alas.
Respond privately
if you like.
Thanks,
Dan Terkla
Dept. of English
Illinois Wesleyan
University
Bloomington, IL
61702
(309) 556-3649
terkla@titan.iwu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:27:01 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Buddhism
At 03:40 PM
1/29/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Can anyone
out there give me information on when and how the Beats got
>into
Buddhism? I know the "Why?"
but realized after teaching them last
>term that I
couldn't make the historical connections.
I remember Anne
>Waldman and
others speaking about this two summers ago at NYU but took no
>notes, alas.
>
>Respond
privately if you like.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan Terkla
>
>Dept. of
English
>Illinois
Wesleyan University
>Bloomington,
IL 61702
>(309)
556-3649
>terkla@titan.iwu.edu
>
>
About the beats
in general I can't say. Gary Snyder and
Kerouac acquired
their interests
independently and previous to their meeting one another.
In terms of
Kerouac I think that his initial "discovery" of Buddhism came in
reaction to the
Cassadys embrace of Edgar Cayce. I think Kerouac did not
share their
enthusiasm for Cayce but shared their interest in spiritual
matters and this
lead him to the library where he found Buddhism. I think
he intially found
a lot of Buddhist writings in French.
I believe that
Ginsberg did not share Kerouac's interest in Buddhism til
much later. Burroughs never has shared the interest.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:56:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs and Jesus
Hello folks.
William Miller
here.
I read in a book
(sorry, don't have the author's name or the title handy),
but I believe
that the title was _New York in the Fifties_, where Ginsberg
told the author
about Burroughs' works of late:
something about
Burroughs just completing a trilogy
something about
him living in KS and recently celebrating a b'day (77 i
think)
And something
about him writing a novel with Jesus Christ as the protagonist,
"breaking
the fundamentalists' monopoly on Jesus".
I realize fully
that Ginsberg may have been mistaken, misled, or just plain
lying.
But has anyone on
the list heard of ANY work by Burroughs which features
Jesus Christ as
the protagonist, hero, anti-hero, or
otherwise-main-character?
Regards,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:37:32 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Burroughs & Jesus
For a hilarious
Jesus mention in WSB, check out the lates release GHOST
OF CHANCE,
written in late eighties. Some may find the Jesus story
offensive, guess
that's why we love Bill eh?
Best
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:07:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:03:16 -0500
from
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
On Sun, 28 Jan
1996 11:03:16 -0500 Perry Lindstrom said:
>Howard Park
and myself attended the first class of "Rebel Poets of the 1950s"
>last
Thursday. Many of the folks were reading
OTR for the first time and had
>a negative
response to it. It certainly makes me
curious as to why they
>would sign up
for such a course. It seems as the
course will be interesting,
>though not in
the way originally envisioned. It's like
Newty has planted his
>own spies in
the class to see what we are up to -- the 90s are starting to
>feel more and
more like the 50s all the time.
>
>Another
thought on OTR comes to mind. There is a
line, I believe when they
>are in
Colorado where one of the characters says something like: Dean is
>just a con
man, an interesting con man, but a con man none-the-less. Of
>course this
is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions -- are
>they just
cons. Of the major religions, the one
that comes closest to
>saying: "God IS an interesting con man,"
would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>-- and I
include Taoism in the same camp). So I
ask the list: Is that the
>major
conclusion of OTR?
>
>Regards,
>Perry
Lindstrom
I can't agree
that this is a major or even a *minor* conclusion that I would dr
aw from OTR. But it's an interesting notion and I'd like
to hear more of your
thoughts about
it. Have you seen the exhibit at the
National Portrait Gallery.
I'd be interested
in any comparisons to the Whitney exhibit.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:11:32 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:44:22 -0500
from
<wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
On Mon, 29 Jan
1996 15:44:22 -0500 Bill Lawlor said:
>Glad to learn
of course on Rebel Poets of the fifties. Please, if you continue
>to attend,
keep us posted. The attack on OTR is
predictable. That's why Jack
>went out and
got drunk, isn't it?
>
>Complaints
that I have heard in class are that the book is boring. It
>rambles, the
detractors say, in the way Huckleberry Finn rambles, and both OTR
>and HF are turds.
Detractors also object to the treatment of women. Why
>glorify a
bigamist?
>
>Bill of the
North Woods
"Glorify a bigamist?" What myopic readers! Bigamy, sex, cars, music -- these
are not the real
issue. The point is that Neal wants it
ALL!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:33:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: First Smithsonian Class
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:15:51 -0800
from
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
On Sun, 28 Jan
1996 19:15:51 -0800 Levi Asher said:
>>
>course this is a question we have to ask ourselves about all religions --
>are
>> >they
just cons. Of the major religions, the
one that comes closest to
>>
>saying: "God IS an interesting
con man," would be Buddhism (especially Zen
>> >--
and I include Taoism in the same camp).
>
>I think I get
what Perry is saying, and kind of agree.
In the book, Sal
>Paradise
places himself in Dean Moriarty's hands, in a sense "submitting"
>to him
blindly the way a religous seeker might submit himself to a guru
>or other
religous leader.
>
>And yet he
recognizes that Dean is a natural con-man, and that while
>Dean can
always be trusted to find some kind of magic in life, he cannot
>be trusted in
any practical sense. To use a real life
example, in Carolyn
>Cassady's
autobiography, "Off The Road," Carolyn describes how she would
>not put her
home at risk to bail Neal Cassady (the real life Dean) out
>of jail
because she knew he would run away and she'd lose the home. And
>yet she still
loved him and wanted him back. The idea
is that you can
>entrust
yourself to a person who can't even be trusted, and one reason a
>person might
choose to do so is that they see some cosmic truth in the
>relationship
-- that if there is a God he also cannot be trusted in
>any practical
sense.
>
>I see this as
consistent with Kerouac's world view, and I think it is
>one of the
hidden ideas that lie beneath "On The Road."
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock
album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
>
> "people tell me it's
a sin
> to know and feel too much
within"
> -- bob dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't
know. I have a problem associating
Moriarty with God. Dean too is a s
eeker, a man with
his own quest on several levels. Both
Dean and Sal are looki
ng for IT!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:39:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: big apple beat
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:42 -0500
from
<wlawlor@UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU>
On Fri, 26 Jan
1996 15:21:42 -0500 Bill Lawlor said:
>I will be in
New York February 1-4 and would like to do stuff around
>town. Perhaps I'll go over to the Whitney on
Thursday between 4 and 6
>(free
admission). Perhaps I'll go down to the
Berg Collection at the
>42nd Street
Library and check out the Ann Charters contribution and some
>of the other
stuff in the holdings.
>
>Does anybody
know anything about a place called Tramps?
I think Billy Preston
>and Buddy Guy
are performing there on Friday night and perhaps that show
>would be
worth seeing. Is the environment in any way appealing or does it
>drag the
mind, abuse the soul?
>
>Are there any
readings on tap? I'm going to miss Corso
at the Whitney--I
>think he
speaks a day or two before I arrive. Are
other readers on tap?
>Where? At
what price?
>
>By the way,
thanks for the listing of WWW-documents on Beat Generation
>literature
and life. Very useful! I look forward to the promised updates.
>
>Bill of the
North Woods
This might be of
interest to you as well as others on the list:
Amiri Baraka e
t al. will be
appearing Friday Feb. 2nd (James Joyce's birthday) at the Westbet
h Theater 151
Bank Street, NYC. Tickets $15. Call 212 631 1065 for more info.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:02:55 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: Burroughs and Jesus
>something
about him living in KS and recently celebrating a b'day (77 i
>think)
Lives in
Lawrence, Kansas. I recently purchased a "Happy 80th Birthday
William
Burroughs" book published by Temple Press, so either the book you
have is quite old
or someone is very mistaken. I doubt Ginnsberg would make
so embarassing an
error.
>But has
anyone on the list heard of ANY work by Burroughs which features
>Jesus Christ
as the protagonist, hero, anti-hero, or
>otherwise-main-character?
Personally I have
heard nothing about Jesus as a main character himself, but
I am in the
backwaters at the moment, so this is not a surprise! I know that
a few of his
characters bear a sort of resemblence in their benevolence.
Alan Maddrell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:44:41 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: raw3%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: Beats and Buddhism
>Can anyone
out there give me information on when and how the Beats got
>into
Buddhism? I know the "Why?"
but realized after teaching them last
>term that I
couldn't make the historical connections.
I remember Anne
>Waldman and
others speaking about this two summers ago at NYU but took no
>notes, alas.
>
there's many
reasons why the Beats got into buddhism - a lot to do, perhaps,
with the West
Coast connection, Alan Watts and co. But
there is a wider
historical link
with Eastern religions in American (and European) thought -
a book I'm just
tackling at the moment (with regard specifically to
background on
Kerouac's involvement with Buddhism re. Mexico City Blues) is
'Zen and American
Thought' by Van Meter Ames, (Honolulu: University of Hawai
Press, 1962,
Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number 62-12672) which
attempts to
contextualise the American interest in Zen.
Ames goes back to
Locke and
forwards through Jefferson, Emerson, who he calls the American
Bodhisattva,
Thoreau, Whitman etc. He is making a
specific connection
between Zen and a
large starnd of American culture.
Haven't read it all
yet, so can't say
how successful his argument is, and he doesn't deal with
the Beats
specifically. But it may be of some
help.
Rod Warner,
University of Aberytswyth, Wales, UK.
raw3@aber.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:46:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beats and Buddhism
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.iwu.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199601311045.KAA24363@nje.earn-relay.ja.net>
Many thanks to
all who responded to my query about the early connections
between the Beats
and Buddhism. Off to the library.
Dan Terkla
Dept.of English
Illinois Wesleyan
University
Bloomington, IL
61702
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:28:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs birthday Friday
Hey again folks.
William Miller
here.
Alan Madrell
wrote about Burroughs 80th birthday book.
Just to clear up
any confusion about the old man's age:
He turns 82 on
Friday, February 5...
thanks to the 3
who answered me about "Ghost of Chance". AG was certainly
exaggerating in
the quote, where he says that Burroughs was "writing up a
storm". At less than 100 pages, Ghost of Chance is
certainly no storm.
Does anyone have
any recent info on the old man's health or productivity as
of late?
William Miller.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:11:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Igor Satanovsky <Isat@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and Jesus
>But has
anyone on the list heard of ANY work by Burroughs which features
>Jesus Christ
as the protagonist, hero, anti-hero, or
>otherwise-main-character?
Just a hint:
Check out Burroughs recording called, if
i remember correctly,
"Dead City
Radio".
i.s.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:16:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR negative response
"Many of the
folks were reading OTR for the first time and had
a negative
response to it"
One legitimate
negative reponse I think has to do with the casual disregard
the protagonists
have for personal responsibility. And I
don't say this as a
cultural
conservative myself. But ditching
marriages and women bringing up
your kids is a
hard thing to justify in real life; the defense of it comes a)
by
recontextualizing the novel and pointing out how conformist the 50s were
(as has been
spoken to often by many on the list), and b) pointing to Sal's
defense of Dean
in the book, when he's "on trial" before all the women (a
good scene to
have in the book, showing JK wasn't eliding the issue but was
conscious of the
pain caused innocents by the constant pursuit of experience
by the men in
their lives); Sal says something to the effect of: you all WANT
to hang out with
this guy, are interested in him, and he is who he is so you
have to take the
bad with the good. But rereading the
article on Children of
the Beats (on the
list a few months ago) makes clear that there's plenty to
dislike about the
lives Beat explorations sanctioned. You
can say that these
guys were involved
in spiritual quests, but what religious philosophy
condones leaving
people who depend on you miserable through carelessness and,
indeed, selfish
pursuit of your own spiritual ends?
But I like the
book and these writers -- the argument I'm making is not my
own overriding
concern. Which leads me to another
aspect of OTR rarely
mentioned, it
seems. That is, for all its exhileration
with experience and
language, it is
finally a very SAD book. Most of Kerouac
is indeed permeated
with misery and lament. Even Dean at the end is stuck in a type of
rut, and
Sal himself
experiences betrayal by Dean when left sick in Mexico: "Okay,
Dean, I'll say
nothing." Abandoning social
structures does come at a price
-- the best
defense against the above accusations, to my mind, that the novel
acknowledges that
these lives (Sal's own, Dean's, etc.) can't be maintained,
destroy too
much. And yet, live the other way? Not on your life.
On "pooh
bear" at end, briefly: isn't this the projection of what the people
living in these
sleepy households the narrator surveys at the end of the
book, what THEY
are thinking, not the narrator's view at all?
Be careful
making the
mistake of confusing fiction with actual authors lives, even in
such an
autobiographically influenced work as this.
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:12 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Burroughs birthday Friday (fwd)
Does anyone have
any recent info on the old man's health or productivity as
of late?
William Miller.
Hello William
Do you, or any
others on list, know what happen to the Opera Bill was
involved with
about the ROSWELL UFO crash? This gets a mention in the
Barry Miles
biography. Also, I read that Bill was presenting a TV series
on his favourite
cats! Has anyone any more information about this, has
it been broadcast
yet? Is anyone sending birthday wishes to WSB
Communications?
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:01:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Go
Does anyone know
where I can find a character key for "GO"? I think I have
who's who figured
out in most instances, but there's still some I'm not so
sure of. Thanks
to anyone that can help.
-Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:39:26 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@SUN3.CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: CHANCE???
In-Reply-To: <E490BC3001C93A7C@-SMF->
This (being guided by one's pre-conscious
sediments/forces) is like
fortune-telling
(e.g. "throwing" the coins with the "I Ching")?
"Art"
then becomes
essentially a kind of (self-activated) "fortune-telling"?
fws
On Wed, 29 Nov
1995, Eckert, Molly K wrote:
> Jules
>
> Cage used to
throw papers with notes and and other
musical themes in the
> air and then
choose them randomly. However, even
thought that this
> choosing was
chance the notes and such that he wrote on the papers were
> anything
but. He knew maybe not consciously but
subconsciously what was
> going to be
on the papers.
>
> Have you
ever heard of Tabula Rasa? we are all
born as a blank slate.
> Our
experiences and memories are what molds us. These experiences are
> always
deeply imbedded into our subconscious.
Even if it was just
> something
that we saw or heard for a brief minute.
They still lead us
> around. Therefore even the way John Cage chose his
papers was not
> chance. He may not havce realized it but his memories
and experiecnces
> forced him
to choose the papers in a certain way.
>
> Molly
>
>
MKEckert@cedarcrest.edu
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:40:40 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@SUN3.CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
Comments: To: Dan
Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
In-Reply-To: <23109631.114119691@RedwoodFN.org>
On Fri, 12 Jan
1996, Dan Barth wrote:
> I'm thinking
that it was in *Big Sur* that Kerouac mentioned *Steppenwolf*. At
> the Bixby
Creek cabin didn't he read *Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde* and then say
> something
about it or some other book being much more interesting than
>
*Steppenwolf*? I'll check my bookshelf later.
right....which once again shows the direct
impact of 50's beats on
60's hippies in
the usa (and maybe w. europe)? "steppenwolf" suddenly
became "all
the rage" among univ. students in the late 60's, as i recall,
virtually
"out of the blue"--people then were more aware of the jung-hesse
connections than
the beat-hesse connections, i think (just as usa 50's
culture was
strangely "erased" from the collective 60's unconcious by the
much-more-"current"
discourses of sartre, laing, jung, heidegger, marcuse,
not to mention
marx/lenin/mao, taoism, buddhism, etc etc) (a curious
phenomenon,
no?)-- quickly followed by "narcissus & goldmund,"
"glass bead
game" (a cult item that, brought into some sort of cultural
discursive
relation with the I Ching as i recall), "siddhartha" etc.
(beatles high on acid in india, "let it
be," lennon still had
a decade or
so....heidegger's gelassenheit, "releasement;" laing
(the
"true" precursor of that contemporary cultural guru, deleuze) taking
acid to talk with
schizophrenic patients in england....).....
fws, taipei
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:58:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nels A Nelson <Nels68Me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Letterman Guest
A quick note...
A 14 year old
guest on tonight's Letterman show (tonight being 2/1), who is
named Natalie
Portman and who I believe is some sort of film actress, was
discussing her
education, and she mentioned that her history teacher, whom
she classified as
weird, recommended OTR to her. Having
read it, she can't
understand why
her teacher would recommend a druggy book. She stated that it
was a story about
using cocaine, heroine, and smoking tea.
From her
reaction, I don't
think she would recommend the book. Just
thought some of
you might find it
interesting.
out for now...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:29:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Go
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:01:19 -0500
from <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
I'm not sure if I
remember seeing a character key. If you
don't find one, it m
ight be fun to
construct one on the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:30:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Character references
I'm sorry I
discarded the original message, but someone asked for a
reference list of
characters in _Go_. I know Ann has a
comprehensive one
in her
autobiography of Jack's works, but all this got me thinking.
I am not
attacvking the notion of having one, or the original requestor's
motives for
having one (I find it fascinating myself) but I was wondering
what the list
thought about the use of these lists.
Should we read
the texts of the Beats in and of themselves without reference
to the historical
figures who were the basis for the literature or should
we look at the
work as "real"?
When we
concentrate too much on say Dean as Neal, are we allowing the
works to stand on
their own. One of my main problems with
the Beats is
that they are
often given discussion solely on the merit of their
Pop culture
status. Their literature is not held on
par with other writers
because of this
and if we are constantly grounding their works in the
historic or Pop
aspect are we doing them justice?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:10:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: OTR
The discussion on
K`s attitude to family values in OTR has been most
interesting; I
tend to agree with the contributor who said we should not
necessarily
conflate K`s personal ideas with those of the OTR characters,
even Sal. Even
then, Sal tried to form a traditional family bond - with
Terry and her
son, but was defeated by the brutally hard work and
sharecroppers`
wages(certainly not by the lure of another woman). I submit
that K`s own
view`s on family, which are of the warmest and most loyal kind,
are to be found
in abundance in Sax, Visions of Gerard and the two beautiful
Christmas essays
he wrote. Sal`s moral neutrality towards Dean is explained,
in my view, by
the twin undercurrents in OTR of spiritual desolation( the
failure to locate
"old Dean Moriarty...the father we never found") and the
physical threat
of immolation in an atomic war. Of course, the two themes
are related to
each other. As John Clellon Holmes has written (in his
brilliant essay
on Gershon Legman), Holmes`generation felt "paralyzed...by
that suspicion of
powerlessness to affect events which was perhaps the war`s
subtlest and most
damaging legacy...". Gerry Nicosia has written that K`s
life and work
reflect a kind of post-traumatic stress resulting from the
disorienting
effect on K of the war and of course the personal tragedies in
Jack`s family.
Viewed in this light, we can conclude that K in OTR was
describing (and
decrying) a moral vacuum caused by cataclysmic war and
spiritual
desolation.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:11:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: K & family
Just an addendum
to my last posting to clarify an apparent contradiction: I
referred to works
of K in which he adopts a warm,
traditionalist stance
towards the
nuclear family, yet I also commented on K`s non-judgemental view
of apparently
irresponsible actions which produce joy or reflect a
comradeship of
the road. However, I meant that K`s views on family appear to
reflect a
paradise lost: the works I referred to on family, such as Sax and
Visions of
Gerard, all pertain to the pre-war period, when K was a child or
teen. He seemed
to think that post-war anxietys and the
aging process,
viewed agaist the
backdrop of an increasingly conformist society, precluded
a return to the
small town, traditionalist values he grew up with. The
spiritual quests
of OTR and TDB were authentic attempts to resolve this
dilemma. Sadly
for K, few critics in the 50`s could understand what he was
trying to do, so
myopic was the time, wedded as it was to
(in the words of
the excellent
liner notes to the Beat Generation box set of recordings) the
"officially
approved reality".
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:28:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: WSB Communications
List people,
Burroughs
birthday IS Feb. 5, of course, but Feb. 5 is Monday, not Friday,
obviously.
The old man turns
82. MONDAY!
I don't know
anything about the opera, or the cat show.
sorry.
My apologies.
William Miller
PS I dont' know
how to get to WSB Communications via the net or the snailmail
process. If anyone has an address, please send it this
way.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:15:33 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
>On Fri, 12
Jan 1996, Dan Barth wrote:
>
>> I'm
thinking that it was in *Big Sur* that Kerouac mentioned
>>*Steppenwolf*.
At
>> the
Bixby Creek cabin didn't he read *Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde* and then say
>>
something about it or some other book being much more interesting than
>>
*Steppenwolf*? I'll check my bookshelf later.
>
> right....which once again shows the direct
impact of 50's beats on
>60's hippies
in the usa (and maybe w. europe)? "steppenwolf" suddenly
>became
"all the rage" among univ. students in the late 60's,
<snip>
> fws, taipei
Nice observation,
don't forget to
duck and cover in March. (just
kidding--I hope)
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:55:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: beatless
friday afternoon or p.o.e.t.s. day
- (Piss Off Early Tomorrows Saturday)
-----
hello its me its me calling out your name
hello its me its me running scared again
seen this world before? - i'm already there!
seen this world before! - i'm already there?
save your books and your pills...i don't need
them - i'm there!
jack & neal were real but just two men
sal & dean were seen but just two men
searchingrunningspiritualpain
carskicksstarsbeatzeninsane!
they walked the lonely road
you know the one you're folks don't know
had no time for love and devotion
had no time for old fashioned potions
found in jazzclubspubs thenwhen wandering
lonely streets at dawn
escaping faces cold alone
in everyman in everyland in everykick you
understand?
i do hope you understand.
have you read they're tale?
of how they lost & loved & beat &
failed?
YOU decide! like everychild! everyeye!
everysky above your head
i hope that you know they're far from being
dead
like i said.
in everyman! in everyland! in everykick! you
understand?
thatyouareme
andsoami
theyknewthat
stilltheytried
tolivealife
rawandblind
just ask cody he knew time...
youknowit'sthere butyoujustcan'tseeit
youknowit'sthere butyoujustcan'treadit
they came inontheirown and theyleftontheirown
forget the lovers they've known and they're
friends ontheroad
you know
you come into this life on your own
and you leave
on your own
- 0 -
its a poem!?
if anyone understand's it then kindly
explain it to me because i certainly
don't. and i wrote
it!
most of it is stolen/altered from 'the verve' lyrics
that are currently playing around my
mind. killed
half an hour anyway.
what's happening to the group reading of 'on
the road'
that was supposed to have started at
xmas? i was
expecting hundreds of new insights, expert
opinions
and mindless dribble to be molesting the lists
by now.
so far there's been very little.
no more.
joe.
----------
' don't want to
live, don't want to die
baby i just want to fly
and you and i
are gonna live forever '
- noel gallagher, oasis
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:15:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: What is UP with this chance thing....
We discussed the
"Chance in art" theme for a good month not to long ago
(November/December)
- how did it get resurected again?
BTW - Happy
Birthday, Billy-boy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:46:54 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Go
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
I'm not sure if I
remember seeing a character key. If you
don't find one, it m
ight be fun to
construct one on the list.
Here are the easy
ones:
Pasternack:
Kerouac
Stofsky: Ginsberg
Kennedy: Cassady
Hobbes: Holmes
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:15:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB Communications
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.NebrWesleyan.edu>
In-Reply-To: <960202122849_134078278@emout05.mail.aol.com>
Hello:
> PS I dont'
know how to get to WSB Communications via the net or the
> snailmail
process. If anyone has an address,
please send it this way.
If you care to,
you can try to reach William S. Burroughs:
William Burroughs
Communications
PO Box 147
Lawrence, KS 66044
I've never seen
an Email address.
I did however
hear a rumor that WSB Communications was publishing
a CD ROM. But that is entirely rumor from a friend in
Lawrence.
Anyone else hear
this?
BTW, I'm working
on an EXTENSIVE WSB web site for my senior English
thesis at
Nebraska Wesleyan University, Lincoln.
It will be the
largest most
comprehensive WSB site available on the net today.
Basically, it
will be a non-linear hypertext system with loads of
graphics,
animation, sound-bites . . . heavy on the interactive
side. Of course, the main ingredient is original
content: my
opinions and
research; however, I will also be including digital
versions of a few
WSB books and essays as well as other people's work.
In a month or so
I will have enough of the project completed to request
beta testers and
proof readers..I also want web design comments, etc..
If you are
interested in helping me out (and would like to be in the
credits) send me
some email.....also-- if you have written anything
WSB related that
you would like to have published on-line, I'd
be happy to
include it in my site.
Regards,
Luke
/\
/\ /\ /\
| Luke Kelly
/\/
\/ \/\/ __o
/ \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or
/\ / /
\ / \<,_
/ \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu
/ /
..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ |
http://www.kdsi.net
Please don't
drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:08:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott Weintraub
<scottw@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character references
In-Reply-To:
<960202.103457.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Fri, 2 Feb
1996, Peter McGahey wrote:
> I'm sorry I
discarded the original message, but someone asked for a
> reference
list of characters in _Go_. I know Ann
has a comprehensive one
> in her
autobiography of Jack's works, but all this got me thinking.
To the person who
wanted the list:
(on the back
cover of the Thunder's Mouth Press version)
David Stofsky =
Allen Ginsberg
Gene Pasternak =
Jack Kerouac
Hart Kennedy =
Neal Cassady
Albert Ancke =
Herbert Huncke
And then, I think
that...
Dinah = Luanne
Henderson
I've forgotten a
little since reading "Go." Was
Verger the guy who made
the fatal mistake
of sticking his head out of a subway window?
I forgot
his name and I
know that he's mentioned in conversation in "Jack's Book"
but I wasn't able
to find it within two minutes--so I gave up.
>
> I am not
attacvking the notion of having one, or the original requestor's
> motives for
having one (I find it fascinating myself) but I was wondering
> what the
list thought about the use of these lists.
Well there's an
anti-hero worship vibe on the list but that's not to be
confused with
biography. Personally, I find the
biography of these boys
fascinating,
too. In my opinion, the beats aren't
just about literature.
They're about
America, too. This is what attracts me
to them so much.
I spent some time
out of college and this is the beginning of my second
semester after
returning. I feel a lot of the same
angst and
frustrations that
they did. The beats are wholly products
of America.
My whole outlook
on college paralells that of somebody who grew up in the
ghettos and
started dealing when they were ten, mugging when they were
twelve, robbing
convience stores when they were fourteen, and finally
murdering when
they're sixteen. And when they are
arrested and asked
why they did it,
they might say, "I was forced into this way of life. I
had no
choice." This is exactly how I feel
about college... and I know I
have a choice but
in many ways I don't. I was forced into
this way of
life. Both of my parents went to college, all of my
buddies from high
school are
currently in college. Although it sounds
ridiculous, it is very
difficult for me
to find happiness within the social constructs I've been
raised, the only
world I know. I am America and so
are/were Jack, Neal,
Allen, etc. I don't know any better.
But I digress...
I said earlier
that they're more than just a literary genre.
They were a
(I hate to say
it) scene. It's important to know all
about the Six Gallery
Reading, what
preceeded it, what happened after it.
And considering that
most of the stuff
they wrote was almost wholly biographical, we're reading
stories of their
movement or non-movement or whatever you want to call it.
Speaking of
"Go," Holmes's Cassady is very much different than Kerouac's
Cassady. Exactly who were these guys? Their lives were America and to
understand what
they're trying to say, we first have to discover who they
are/were.
There was a
recent thread about first-time OTR readers not enjoying their
experience. This is a book that becomes a hell of a lot
more interesting
when you
understand who these people were, where they came from, what they
became, etc.
>
> Should we
read the texts of the Beats in and of themselves without reference
> to the
historical figures who were the basis for the literature or should
> we look at
the work as "real"?
>
> When we
concentrate too much on say Dean as Neal, are we allowing the
> works to
stand on their own. One of my main
problems with the Beats is
> that they
are often given discussion solely on the merit of their
> Pop culture
status. Their literature is not held on
par with other writers
> because of
this and if we are constantly grounding their works in the
> historic or
Pop aspect are we doing them justice?
>
I think that any
critical and intelligent reader is capable of separating the
historical
figures from the work, itself. So it is
entirely possible,
and even
recommended to both read (listen to) the words and let them
stand alone but
to also think about the men behind the poetry and/or prose.
As for their pop
culture status, anybody who truly knows anything, knows
that they are
entirely misrepresented in the media.
According to my
television, the
ghost of Jack Kerouac is standing right now on an
anonymous rainy
street corner in Grenwich Village. He's
got on his
khakis, he's
wearing his trenchcoat, and he's smoking his cigarette. In
a few minutes,
he'll walk down the street to a bar where he'll have a few
beers, smoke a
joint or two, and turn his attention to the beautiful
woman at the
corner table. He's slick as shit and so
he'll walk over to
her, read some
poetry, snap his fingers to the jazz band that's playing
and one hour
later, he'll be back at her apartment having cocktails.
He's Mac Daddy
2000, remember? He'll talk to her, tell
her what she
wants to hear,
kiss her ever-so-slightly on the neck a few times, slowly
working his way
up to those lips where he'll plant one that she'll
remember for the
rest of her life. And while they're
doing that, *snap*
goes the bra,
*carress* *carress* goes Jack's hand, and... I think you
get the picture.
Anybody who has
read the novels knows that this is entirely untrue. And
so, as far as the
hero worship goes, it's a moot topic because we all
know that it's a
load of bullshit. We all know that
Kerouac was you, me,
and that guy
walking down the street. He fucks up all
the time, doesn't
quite understand
women, he's confused, insecure, immature, and thinks too
hard. This is the Jack that is me, the Jack I love.
*****************************************************************************
* Scott Weintraub -
scottw@wam.umd.edu - College Park, Maryland *
*****************************************************************************
* "The bounties of space, of infinite outwardness,
were three: empty *
* heroics, low comedy, and pointless
death." -Kurt Vonnegut *
*****************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:58:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character references
Comments: To:
Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
Well, why can't
we who "know better" use such character lists for
our own quiet
purposes and realize their limited value? You're right,
the folks behind
such pseudonyms ARE interesting, and that alone
should be enough.
Those who've
tended to detract from the literary worth of Beat
writers/poets
will do so anyway, and confusing "real people" with
characters is
only a smokescreen for their prejudices. Note Cassidy's
bust for pot
after OTR became such a hit. The society was without real
recourse in its
attempts to damage the book as a book (though it's
been tried with
little success, especially in the years immediately
following
publication (OTR being on the bestseller list for 4 weeks
wasn't anything
to sniff at), and so the lifestyle was attacked and
a lot of
extraneous garbage was thrown into the mix to distract
from the works'
value. Luckily (I think) we know better now.
But there is an
amount of sociology here, that can be addressed
without
detracting from the literariness of what we are reading and
admiring. As a
"movement", the Beats were a particularly homegrown
phenomenon
(despite its parallel Brit faction, "The Angry Young
Men"), and
as an "American" movement it also deserves that kind of
attention:
As Gregory Corso once said (and
this is grossly
paraphrasing that little elfin
beauty) that once the Beat
Generation was about literature;
now it's about
"everything".
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:06:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Go
Comments: To:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
I'm not
absolutely certain (it's been years since I read Charters'
book), but I
think she does some of the ID-ing for the characters in
GO informally in
her bio of K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:04:43 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character references
>I've
forgotten a little since reading "Go." Was Verger the guy who made
>the fatal
mistake of sticking his head out of a subway window? I forgot
>his name and
I know that he's mentioned in conversation in "Jack's Book"
>but I wasn't
able to find it within two minutes--so I gave up.
>
His real name was
Bill Canastra.
And I think
Kerouac's second wife was living in his loft after he died when
got together with
her, described at the end of On The Road.
She was/is (I
assume she is
alive) the mother of Jan kerouac. She
may have been
Canastra's
girlfriend but I am not sure about this.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:22:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald <103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: WSB & TSE
>> Also, I
read that Bill was presenting a TV series
>>on his
favourite cats! Has anyone any more information about this, has
>>it been
broadcast yet?
Now this is
something. I've been more & more
interested in WSB's affinities
with
TSE lately. (T. S. Eliot, that is.) They have St. Louis & Harvard in common.
And
both specialized
in a cut-up style, layering multiple voices.
(Somewhere I came
across a cut-up
by Burroughs of The Waste Land--cut-up of a cut-up, all-out
puree.--
Does anyone know
where I saw this?) Now I hear that WSB is doing some sort of
cat
thing. Is it conscious emulation?
BTW, TSE reading
the end of Book II of the Waste Land sounds just like our
birthday
boy.
Andrew
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:10:51 +1300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim <tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>
Subject: Missing Texts
Could somebody
please help me. I'm trying to get hold of the following texts
by Jack. I've
searched everywhere and come up empty handed. These are the
books I'm after.
Pull my daisy
Wake up
Some of the dharma
Thanks.
Tim.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:27:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character references (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> When we
concentrate too much on say Dean as Neal, are we allowing the
> works to
stand on their own. One of my main
problems with the Beats is
> that they
are often given discussion solely on the merit of their
> Pop culture
status. Their literature is not held on
par with other writers
> because of
this and if we are constantly grounding their works in the
> historic or
Pop aspect are we doing them justice?
>
I think that any
critical and intelligent reader is capable of separating the
historical
figures from the work, itself. So it is
entirely possible,
and even
recommended to both read (listen to) the words and let them
stand alone but
to also think about the men behind the poetry and/or prose.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to resort
to cliches, but don't look at this in terms of preaching
to the
converted. This is in many ways a
critical time for the Beat writers
in that they are
near the edge of becoming recognized literary figures in the
academic
canon. Maybe that is exactly what they
sought to avoid, but it
seems that Allen
selling his papers and many of the feuds with Jack's estate
are based on the
hope that they will become recoginzed by the literary
community. Obviously if we are on this list, we perceive
them as something
beyond the media
portrayal of black turtlenecked bohemian snapping their
fingers. In order to get others to even pick them up,
maybe we need to
get away from the
Pop aspects and that may only be able to be done by
looking at the
texts in and of themselves.
But then, do I
really want those people reading and discussing these works?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:34:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Missing Texts (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Could somebody
please help me. I'm trying to get hold of the following texts
by Jack. I've
searched everywhere and come up empty handed. These are the
books I'm after.
Pull my daisy
Wake up
Some of the dharma
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there was a book
on pull my daisy at the Whitney shop, but I don't recall if
it had a
transcript in it. Anyway, you'd need to
get there in the next
twelve hours
since it closes permanently on Sunday.
For new copies of
any Beat text try City Lights. Their
selection is phenomenal
City Lights
261 Columbus Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94133
415-362-8193
They have a web
address but I can't find it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:42:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: More OTR Ravings
I had started out
to respond to all the interesting comments on
my proposition
that the major conclusion of OTR is that "God is an
interesting con
man." Instead I will try to be a
little more
clear on what I
meant by this. First what I didn't
mean: Neal
Cassady is
God. As others have well documented,
Neal was
certainly thought
of as a con man by most, perhaps all of his
friends. However, I am not trying to say that because
he was a
con man he was
somehow God-like. What I think Kerouac
was doing
either
intentionally or unintentionally was to develop a metaphor
based on
autobiographical material which examines the ambivalent
role that our
beliefs play in our lives -- either our beliefs in
one another -- is
this person/friend trying to con me? -- or our
religious beliefs
-- is this religion the Truth? Both of
these
themes run
constantly throughout OTR.
Nor do a think
that Jack Kerouac ever sat down and said:
"The
major conclusion
of OTR is that God is an interesting con man."
What he did do is
become very interested in Buddhism. He
finished OTR in
April 1951 and became interested in Buddhism in
early 1954. If you ask a Christian whether Christ was the
son of
God or an
interesting con man he or she will most definitely
answer -- well I
don't need to say, but if you ask a Buddhist
whether the Buddha
was a manifestation of God or an interesting
con man he or she
is more than likely to say "YES."
Which is to
say these are not
mutually exclusive categories. We must
learn
to live with our
ambivalences -- and with the postmodern
condition (is JK
more PoMo than we thought?).
So when I say
that this is the major conclusion of OTR, what I am
saying is this is
where Kerouac found himself at the end of the
book. A recent post mentioned the sadness of OTR,
and this is
very
telling. I think that Kerouac's
"real" name in the book is
"Sad
Paradise" which captures exactly what this ambivalence is
about.
A note on Liz,
Howard and others' comments about random thoughts.
I don't think it
is possible for people to have random thoughts -
- in the
statistical sense of the word. All our
thoughts are
biased
(statistically speaking) by our genetic makeup, our
upbringing, and
prior random events -- but they are our thoughts.
What Burroughs
tried to do with cut-ups (and others like John
Cage) was to
introduce more randomness into the process.
But
Burroughs came to
believe that even these were not random at all
but "were
prophetic subliminal announcements."
Literary Outlaw,
p322 - Morgan's
words not WSB's. I would contend that
automatic
writing is not
random thinking but is the result of the artist's
prior
experiences, investigations, discipline, talent etc. -- but
perhaps I am
beating up on a straw man here since the prior use
of the word may
have had a different connotation for Liz and Howard.
I agree with Liz
and others that I can not know what Kerouac
"intended"
when he wrote the line about God and Winnie the Pooh,
but I can not
imagine a less Cassady-like character than Winnie
the Pooh -- so in
that way I would not say that it is a random
thought. Intentional or not, WtP-as-God is the perfect
antithesis to the
thesis which I have put forward above and
therefore its
interjection here would lend credence to the notion
that JK was
actively and intentionally mulling this possibility
over.
As regards the
book's final line: "...I think of
Dean Moriarty, I
even think of Old Dean Moriarty the father we
never found, I
think of Dean Moriarty," which invokes a trinity. I can
not say whether
Kerouac intended to invoke a trinity, but given
his background I
would not say it was random.
Anyhow, because
we know so much biographical information about
Kerouac, trying
to figure out meanings intended, unintended or as
Levi says,
"secret" becomes great sport -- of course in the end
the only person I
am really revealing anything about is myself --
but that my
friends is a whole other kettle o' fish.
Happy Gertrude
Stein's Birthday!
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:15:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Jaeger
<pjaeger@BOSSHOG.ARTS.UWO.CA>
Subject: subscribe
does anyone here
now how I subscribe to this list?
pjaeger@bosshog.arts.uwo.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:36:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Missing Texts (fwd)
"Pull My
Daisy" was, I think, a film with Ginsberg, Jack, etc. Did you want
the screenplay,
if there was one? For the others, try City Lights in San
Fran, Spring
Street Bookstore in New York or St. Mark's Bookstore in the
East Village,
NYC.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:51:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: More OTR Ravings
Hi Perry,
I first want to
say that these comments I am making are not meant tobe
flames or
knocks. I just disagree with what you're
saying. That's the fun
part for all of
us. i appreciate your effort to present
new stuff for
discussion.
>Nor do a
think that Jack Kerouac ever sat down and said:
"The
>major
conclusion of OTR is that God is an interesting con man."
>What he did
do is become very interested in Buddhism.
He
>finished OTR
in April 1951 and became interested in Buddhism in
>early
1954. If you ask a Christian whether
Christ was the son of
>God or an
interesting con man he or she will most definitely
>answer --
well I don't need to say, but if you ask a Buddhist
>whether the
Buddha was a manifestation of God or an interesting
>con man he or
she is more than likely to say "YES."
Which is to
>say these are
not mutually exclusive categories. We
must learn
>to live with
our ambivalences -- and with the postmodern
>condition (is
JK more PoMo than we thought?).
>
Here I don't
agree at all. I don't think Buddhists
would say Buddha is an
intersting con
man. They take Buddhism very seriously.
I find many
aspects of Buddhism and many aspects of catholicism to be very
similar. The iconography and ritual are very
similar. A couple weeks ago
we went to our
friends wedding. They are a Vietnamese
couple who are
Catholic, not
Buddhist. After the wedding at lunch at
the mother of the
groom's house
they did something that is almost exactly the same as my
fundamentalist
Buddhist in-laws might do. There was a
big shrine there
with the Virgin
Mary stature as the cetnerpiece. They
had food and stuff
on it the same
way that my in-laws leave sugar, rice etc...on there shrine.
My in-laws shrine
is topped by a picture of their sect's (True Buddha--it
has a web page or
two if you are interested in looking) living master
Buddha dude. The couple, after the ceremony at the others
house lit
incense and held
the burning sticks and bowed a few times before the
shrine. This is virtually exactly what I've seen my
father in law do to
his shrine. It struck me how similar the rituals and
iconography are with
the relevant
substitutions for Buddhism vs. Catholicism.
I am not saying
this form of
Buddhism and this form of Catholicism are idential or equal,
but the outward
manifestations are extremely alike.
Analogously in many
ways Zen Buddhism
strikes me very much like certain aspects of
Protestantism. I read D.T. Suzuki before I read imitation of
Christ by
Thomas a kempis
and the similarities in the aphorisms was very apparent to
me.(Once again I
am not saying Zen and certain aspects of protestantism are
identical, just
that there are similarities).
This is why
Kerouac's Catholicism and Buddhism have never struck me as
being at odds
with each other. Read mexico fellaheen
from Lonesome
Traveller.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 01:01:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: GINSBERG AND MEDITATION
In-Reply-To:
<960129132543.3155@louisville.lib.ky.us>
On Mon, 29 Jan
1996, Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch wrote:
> I was
wondering if anyone was aware if Allen Ginsberg studied meditation with
> Swami
Muktananda before studying with Chogyam Trungpa. If so, was the
> association
short-lived or what?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Paul
McDonald
>
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
Here is a quote
from _Dharma Lion_, a massive Ginsberg bio by Michael
Schumacher:
"Such cynicism, expressed by other
Ginsberg detractors,
symbolized a
significant misunderstanding of Allen's long-held interest in
Eastern religion,
philosophy, and art. If anything, he was
moving closer
to establishing
the meditation practice that he would undertake for the
rest of his
lifre. That autumn, after making a brief
reading trip to
Puerto Rico,
Bermuda, and the Virgin Islands, he returned to New York
City, where he
met Swami Muktananda, who helped him begin a daily
hour-long
meditation practice. A short time before
that, he had met
Tibetan Buddhist
guru Chogyam Trungpa in a chance encounter on the
street in
Manhattan. Trungpa's assistant
recognized Allen, and the poet
and Buddhist
teacher exchanged addresses, beginning a very important
friendship."
This is the only
mention of the Swami Muktananda in the entire near-700
page text of this
book. It seems very safe to assume that
their
association was
quite short-lived, though it's hard to tell just how short.
This is a great
bio, if only for the sheer volume of detail it includes.
There's good
stuff on the relationship between Ginsberg & Timothy Leary,
especially when
the latter was carrying out his LSD & psilocybin mushroom
experiments, as
well as on the details of the developments of
relationships
between Ginsberg, Kerouac, Cassady, and the West Coast
kids, & later
with Bob Dylan & others, as well as just about everyone
else he ever came
into contact with, even just seeing them at a distance
on a crowded
street (well, it *is* massive). It was
put out by St.
Martin's Press,
in New York, in 1992.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 09:45:22 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: sjcahn <c659663@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: More OTR Ravings
In-Reply-To:
<960203164219_135030750@emout10.mail.aol.com>
On Sat, 3 Feb
1996, Perry Lindstrom wrote:
> A note on
Liz, Howard and others' comments about random thoughts.
> I don't
think it is possible for people to have random thoughts -
> - in the
statistical sense of the word. All our
thoughts are
> biased
(statistically speaking) by our genetic makeup, our
> upbringing,
and prior random events -- but they are our thoughts.
> What
Burroughs tried to do with cut-ups (and others like John
> Cage) was to
introduce more randomness into the process.
But
> Burroughs
came to believe that even these were not random at all
> but
"were prophetic subliminal announcements." Literary Outlaw,
> p322 -
Morgan's words not WSB's. I would
contend that automatic
> writing is
not random thinking but is the result of the artist's
> prior
experiences, investigations, discipline, talent etc. -- but
> perhaps I am
beating up on a straw man here since the prior use
> of the word
may have had a different connotation for Liz and Howard.
>
If you want to
dive into the most interesting... I'd say... product of
"automatic
writing," and how it's used, refined, let go-- all impossibly
poor explanantion--
grab a copy of Yeats' "A Vision." A prepare for a ride.
sjc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:38:09 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: raw3%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: Hesse and Beat
>>On Fri,
12 Jan 1996, Dan Barth wrote:
>>
>>> I'm
thinking that it was in *Big Sur* that Kerouac mentioned
>>>*Steppenwolf*.
At
>>> the
Bixby Creek cabin didn't he read *Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde* and then say
>>>
something about it or some other book being much more interesting than
>>>
*Steppenwolf*? I'll check my bookshelf later.
>>
>> right....which once again shows the direct
impact of 50's beats on
>>60's
hippies in the usa (and maybe w. europe)? "steppenwolf" suddenly
>>became
"all the rage" among univ. students in the late 60's,
>
><snip>
>
>> fws, taipei
>
>Nice observation,
>
>don't forget
to duck and cover in March. (just
kidding--I hope)
>
>Tim
>
coming in on this
a bit late - due to bad dose of flu - but lying in my bed
sneezing and
snuffling I was checking through Big Sur looking for a
reference to
something else and chanced upon the following passage:
'Long nights simply thinking about the
usefulness of that little wire
scourer, those
little yellow copper things you buy in supermarkets for 10 cents
all to me
infinitely more interesting than the stupid and senseless
"Steppenwolf"
novel in the shack which I read with a shrug, this old fart
reflecting the
"conformity" of today and all the while he thought he was a
big Nietzsche,
old imitator of Dostoevsky fifty years too late...'
'Big Sur:' p. 31.
- harsh, but true, I think?
rod w.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:04:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: raw3%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: mexico city blues
sunday, 4th Feb.
Does anyone have
any information about the 1st chorus of Mexico City Blues,
especially the
last section: The same voice on the same
ship/The Supreme
Vehicle/S.S.
Excalibur/Maynard etc.? I get the
buddhist reference - Supreme
Vehicle - but
what relevance did S.S. Excalibur have for kerouac? In Book
of Dreams there
is a mention of this ship sailing of to Cuba or Panama (I
forget - haven't
the book to hand) but was this some boat operating out of
Mexico or Kerouac
transposing in his dream a ship he'd sailed on, either in
the Merchant
Marine or elsewhere? Also: is Maynard a
place? I checked the
atlas for this,
and there is a Maynard in Washington State, but i don't see
the immediate
relevance. One final thing: is the quoted voice Bill Garver?
And 'stock and
joint' a reference to his drug stash?
Any help gratefully
received - I've
got most of the poem down, but this first bit I find
puzzling with
regard to the exact references - my nit-picking brain,
probably - or the
fact that I'm a Brit, writing about the poem at a distance
from the U.S.
Rod Warner
University of Aberystwyth, UK.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:00:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Delancy
<joehler@REDROSE.NET>
Subject: John Fante
Hey,
I just joined the list, so please
excuse this posting if it's not
appropriate,
since i'm not sure if you all consider John Fante a beat
generation
writer. Anyways, I've read practically all of his books, and
wanted to see his
films, but have looked to no avail! Well, i looked in
Blockbuster, the
only major video store around here, and they didn't have
one Fanter film.
Wait Until Spring, Bandini, has Faye Dunaway in it, so i'd
imagine it was
distributed pretty much, but they didn't have it. So, what i
was wondering is,
has anyone ever seen his films? Or know of a place that
sells his videos?
Thank you much in advance!
joehler@redrose.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 19:18:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: mexico city blues
On Feb 04, 1996
22:04:44,
'raw3%aberystwyth.ac.uk%UKACRL.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU'
wrote:
>And 'stock
and joint' a reference to his drug stash?
Any help
Can't help you
with Excalibur or Maynard, but stock and joint used to refer
to a hobo's
possessions, as it were, or his "set-up" or situation. I would
lean toward this
rather than the drug reference.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:24:15 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Subscribe to Beat-L mailing list
Can you please
add me to the Beat-L mailing list.
peent@servtech.com
This is a change
of address.If possible, can you remove my previous address
peent@aol.com
Thank you,
Michael Czarnecki
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:48:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB & TSE
Hey folks.
someone wrote:
>> Also, I
read that Bill was presenting a TV series on his favourite cats!
Has anyone any
more information about this, has it been broadcast yet?
And andrew Howald
replied:
Now this is
something. I've been more & more
interested in WSB's affinities
with TSE
lately. (T. S. Eliot, that is.) They have St. Louis & Harvard in
common.
And both
specialized in a cut-up style, layering multiple voices. (Somewhere
I came
across a cut-up
by Burroughs of The Waste Land--cut-up of a cut-up, all-out
puree.--
Does anyone know
where I saw this?) Now I hear that WSB is doing some sort of
cat thing. Is it conscious emulation?
BTW, TSE reading
the end of Book II of the Waste Land sounds just like our
birthday boy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Add to that: the
collaboration of TSE and EP had a major impact, there was
some sort of
synergy there, as there was with AG and Burroughs.
But still I don't
think that it's conscious emulation.
Eliot spend a lot
of time and effort on criticism, and our birthday boy
certainly has
not. I've heard that Eliot kept the
private life WAY in the
background, and,
although Burroughs has sometimes been cited as attempting to
be private, el
hombre invisible and all that, he's a huge public figure.
It's fun to think
about, though.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:49:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Character references
Hello again.
I think that
"just looking at the texts themselves" is a big mistake. You
have to learn
everything you can about a work, at least all that's cogent,
and in K's case,
you have to look outside the text as well, once you realize
that there's
something out there worth looking at.
On the first
reading of OTR, I was truly disappointed.
I had read some
biographical
materiel on JK, and I finished the book thinking "could this guy
invent
ANYTHING?". i could see the
invention of a major style, but that
wasn't enough for
me.
Now that I look
at it sort of like this
A
<----------> some of JK's life
experiences
B
<----------> text of OTR.
The exploration
of how he got from A to B is the key, I must believe.
All the complaining
about the "Beats aren't getting their literary due" is
rapidly nearing a
massive whine. If it's because certain
people can't get
beyond the
beatnik/ "hey, daddy-o" image, that's too bad, but it's not our
loss. It's theirs.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:06:09 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Janet Hoelle
<97jhoell@ULTRIX.UOR.EDU>
I WOULD LIKE TO
SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR MAILING LIST. PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR LIST.
NICOLE HOELLE
97jhoell@ultrix.uor.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:56:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: More OTR Ravings
For the major
application of "automatic writing" see Gertrude Stein. She
wrote a thesis on
it when she studied with James at Harvard.
Her composition
methods described
by Souhami seem to be a use of hypnogogic and hypnopompic
states of
consciousness for her compositions, with
Alice B. typing it up the
next day.
Dan Lauffer
<I'm with you
in Rockland>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:52:37 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen"
<anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Harold Carrington
I am trying to
track down mss. and letters from the late poet Harold
Carrington, who
died mostly unpublished in the early sixties -- Would be
much interested
in hearing from anyone who knows location of any
Carrington papers
--
Also looking for
current address, if there is one, for Ray Bremser, who
was a friend of
Carrington's --
Lastly, for now,
trying to solve a puzzle. Ray Bremser
published two
versions of a
piece titled "Drive Suite."
Several years later, a version
of the poem was
published in Paul Breman's Heritage Series and attributed
to Carrington --
I suspect that somebody found a ms. of the poem among
Carrington's
stuff and was confused, but it could also be that they
worked on it
together -- Does anybody know anything about this??
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 13:13:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Missing Texts
Comments: To: Tim
<tching@VOYAGER.CO.NZ>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
Pull My Daisy: I
don't believe there is anything published (if it
is the script of the
film you're interested in), though the poem that
was written by
Ginsberg/Kerouac of that same title and written in the
late forties has
been published. The film, Pull My Daisy, was said to
be based on a
three-act play Kerouac wrote called The Beat
Generation, the
scenario of the movie being the third act.
Wake Up and
Some of the Dharma are basically
unpublished, though
the Buddhist mag
Tricycle began (at least) to serialize
Wake Up . I'd
read rumors
that Some of the Dharma would be published at the end of
last year, but so
far, no go.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:12:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dave Quattro
<quattro@DCSEQ.USCGA.EDU>
Subject: thoughts?
i'd like to see
what a bunch of beatniks think of ayn rand...
anyone,
anyone? i know she's no JK, but as beatniks, we're
thinkers too, right?
here's some
thoughts too.
ayn rand has
backed herself up well. she says that
people who deserve a
social contract
are those who understand that it's exactly that. we all
rely on each
other. if you're not participating in the
production of
things, pretty
much if you don't have a monster frigging work ethic, then
you're part of
the destruction. ayn rand also feels
very strongly on this:
too many people
don't understand, don't care. too many
people leave things
up to a question:
"Who is John Galt?" too many
people just say, "oh well -
it's something i
can't understand, a catch 22. it can't
be helped." she
hates that. ayn rand calls bullshit on society. she says that that
attitude is
death. it is leachness, and it is
evil. but you know what it
really is? cognative dissonance.
when you trust...
you leave yourself open to the imperfections of others.
you WILL pay for
their mistakes. (unavoidable? i don't know.)
i used to want to
be a simple farmer - living off what i grow, making no
profit, keeping
chickens and maybe some pigs/cows/horses...
a simple life
in the country
free of nuclear bombs and traffic jams.
and if a nuclear
bomb or radon gas
kills me, well i can melt or choke knowing that i had
absolutely
nothing to do with it, and i'd be free.
BUT i have grown
out of this, because i don't want to be the farmer who is
self sufficient
and doing fine but oh! he has no teeth, because he refuses
to buy the
toothbrush that's manufactured. when my
cows all get
hemerhoids, i am
not too proud to take them to the vet...
when my child
becomes deathly
ill, i'm not so proud that i will just let him/her die...
when there's a
flood, i'm not too proud to borrow some seeds or grain from
my neighbor.
there are things
on earth - natural things out of our control that do not
allow us to live
a perfectly lonely life. life is
unpredictable. it's
impossible to
plan for everything (anything).
where's this guy
going with this? i don't know -
randomesque thoughts.
upon rereading, i
see that i've got some incoherency and idea hopping, but
oh well.
so what's the
solution? here's what i think: remember
ayn's power... and
remebmer dave's
farmer power too. it's up to all of us
to decide what
solution is
appropriate in what situation.
learn & teach
- D=AA=88=A1=8F
Q=B5=C5=DDt=AE=9A
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:09:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: Hesse and _Big Sur_
Thanks Rod W. for
the quote from _Big Sur_ which apparently
is critical of
Hesse's _Steppenwolf_. Earlier in Jan.,
Dan
Barth also quoted
a part of that quote, but I missed the
"old
fart....trying to be like Nietzsche...Dostoyevsky" part.
(Can I assume
that this refers to Harry Haller, or do you
suppose JK is
alluding to Hesse??-- If he means ol' Hesse,
this is a dandy
quote, and somewhat accurate.)
I will have to
have a closer look at _Big Sur_, as I am not familiar
with it, but that
quote is very telling. I am, frankly,
surprised
that
_Steppenwolf_ would not appeal to JK. I
am sure many
of you are
familiar with this work, so I will spare you the
details, but it
is essentially about an artist (outsider) in
search of
himself. In his search, he discovers his
sexuality
(and the notions
of multiply partners, homosexuality and prostitution),
Dionysian music
(in the 20's this was dance music-- forerunner
to jazz), murder
and crime, and lastly drugs (the drug influence
in the novel has
been questioned, but most critics agree that
drugs play at
least a "minor" role). In a
nutshell,
_Steppenwolf_
would seem to share many of the "Beat Generation
ideals", I
think (I am no Beat expert, so correct me if I am
wrong!!)
Despite all of my
ruminations and arguments, JK may have despised
Hesse's
_Steppenwolf_ and perhaps saw nothing in it he even
remotely liked
(which, in _Big Sur_, appears to be the case).
So......if
_Steppenwolf_ did not influence JK (or any of the Beats),
then I guess I am
wrong.
Not the first
time!!
Any ideas..... ?
Trevor
Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:31:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: GINSBERG AND MEDITATION
I was wondering
if anyone knew if Allen Ginsberg studied meditation with
Swami Muktananda
Paramahansa before deciding that Chogyam Trungpa would be his
primary
teacher. I read a little about him and
Muktananda in "Dharma Lion"
and the bio by
Barry Miles, but it is very short.
Apparently Muktnanada made
quite an
impression on him, according to a statements Ginsberg made in an
interview I read
on the net. Any info about this
association would be greatly
appreciated.
Paul McDonald
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:11:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: TSE-WSB
But waaaait a
minute -- TSE & WSB were on real opposite sides of the fence.
I think perhaps the most major diff was that
WSB always made it a point not
to be judgmental;
Eliot, on the other hand, became the arbiter for at least a
decade of
American Literature, and the stuff he was involved in publishing
(as editor at
Faber & Faber) so closed down the local/vernacular/experimental
possibilities of
American poetry that a generation of poets -- including many
beat influenced
poets like Creeley, etc., found in Eliot the great villain of
a New American
verse. See intro to Poetics of the New
American Poetry, a
volume which
includes Pound, WC Williams and Stein as forbears but
deliberately
EXCLUDES TSE. Eliot would not have published
(and was a major
influence on the
publishing industry that resisted publishing) Jack, Bill,
Allen, etc. He WAS the canon (directly or indirectly)
throughout the 40s &
50s. Yes he was an experimental, cut-up using,
marginal poet in the late
teens and early
twenties, BUT once given power he used it very ungenerously
and dogmatically.
Ted Pelton
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:27:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Missing Texts
Pull My Daisy
(text and pictures from the film) was published by Grove in
paperback in the
early sixties or late 1950's. It is
extremely rare and has
been out of print
for decades. The only time I ever saw it
the asking price
was something
like $100.
If anyone ever
sees it at a garage sale or used bookstore at a reasonable
price, buy it!
As for Kerouac's
Buddhist writings, I would be surprised if they are not out
by the end of the
year given the resurgence of interest in all things beat
these days.
Anyone know when
the next volume of JK letters will be out?
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:33:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: Missing Texts
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:27:03 -0500
from <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
On Mon, 5 Feb
1996 20:27:03 -0500 Howard Park said:
>Pull My Daisy
(text and pictures from the film) was published by Grove in
>paperback in
the early sixties or late 1950's. It is
extremely rare and has
>been out of
print for decades. The only time I ever
saw it the asking price
>was something
like $100.
>If anyone
ever sees it at a garage sale or used bookstore at a reasonable
>price, buy
it!
Howard scooped
me. I was writing a similar response
when my computer
hung up. When I got back, he'd passed along the
appropriate information.
There was a copy
of the book in the Whitney show, as well as the
transcription
Alfred Leslie had made of the act of Kerouac's play
The Beat
Generation, on which the film is based.
The gift shop at
the Whitney also had copies of Pull My Daisy on VHS for
sale: "First Video Release," the package
trumpets. It cost $40, and
the only
indication of the source of the tape release is a note on the
back concerning
the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston (phone 713 639 7531),
and its
circulating collection of film and video by Robert Frank.
The print used
for the video transfer, interestingly enough, is a
pre-release
version, interestingly enough, which carries the original
title of the
film, The Beat Generation, rather than Pull My Daisy.
This, I'm
presuming, is the print Frank reportedly unearthed a few
years ago and
placed in the Houston museum.
Blaine Allan
ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:11:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Saint Ayn
Comments: cc:
quattro@dcseq.uscga.edu
Dave Quattro
asks:
>i'd like to
see what a bunch of beatniks think of ayn rand... >anyone,
anyone? i know she's no JK, but as beatniks, we're
>thinkers too, right?
We're both
running the risk of being flamed for topic deviance here, but I'll
take a stab at
this:
In that Ayn Rand
was an iconoclast, who often went against the grain and was
spurned by the
academic establishment as a consequence, a thinker who
challenged
"collective reality" and championed the individual, I can see a
connection with
the gestalt of the Beats. However, the comparison can't be
carried much
further, I think. Rand was extremely intolerant of ambiguities,
be those
aesthetic or moral. (Her credo, borrowed from Aristotle, can be
summed up as:
" A is A".) And she utterly detested mysticism. So, I doubt
that she would
ever have sought out the Beats (indeed, I seem to recall that
she made some
rather disparaging remarks about Beat culture), and had she
found herself in
a room with Kerouac, Ginsberg, or Burroughs (let alone Neal
Cassady), I think
she would have left in very short order, her cigarette
holder held high.
Interesting
question, though. As an aside, I'd have to add that a number of
post-Beat '60s
rebels ended up reading Ayn Rand and digging what she had to
say, myself
included. And there are distinctly libertarian threads in both
the philosophy of
Rand and the yearnings of the Beats. Rand has had the
misfortune, I
think, to have been much maligned by the left, with the result
that many
otherwise open-minded people have developed a knee-jerk antipathy
to the mention of
her name. More's the pity.
On the other hand
I don't recall ever reading anything by Hermann Hesse.
Luther Jett,
preparing now to duck and cover . . .
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:32:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Happy B'Day
Happy 82nd
Berfday WSB wherever you are!
I wrote to the
Bradford exchange trying to persuade them to do a
commemorative plate
for his 80th, but they never responded.
Strangely enough
I suggested a
vision of Burroughs with the American flag flying behind him --
which was the
exact image that I later saw in the Burroughs video --
Commisioner of
Sewers (right title?) -- very strange.
I assume the
people who keep asking about Burroughs and his cats are aware of
his cat book --
if not, it's out there and it is serious -- I have dogs and
birds so we
wouldn't get along on that topic -- although I have to admit to
also being fond
of cats.
Perry
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:44:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James M Spear
<jspear@COUGARNET.BYU.EDU>
Subject: plese remove
would the
responsible party remove me from this list thanx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 22:48:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Saint Ayn
On Feb 05, 1996
21:11:23, '"W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@AOL.COM>' wrote:
>Rand has had
the
>misfortune, I
think, to have been much maligned by the left, with the
result
>that many
otherwise open-minded people have developed a knee-jerk
antipathy
>to the
mention of her name. More's the pity.
I, too, read a
lot of Ayn Rand (much more of the beats) and at probably too
young an age. I
do know that her book "Anthem" was a cause celebre of the
right (wm f.
buckley in particular) in the 60's and her killer capitalist
ideas in
"fountainhead" and Atlas shrugged" were maligned by what was
then
called the left.
She seems almost antithetical to what a lot of the beats
were saying and
doing then, although I'm sure Jerry Rubin later followed
some of her
precepts. And that was really pitiful!
Mark Johnson
smark@nyc.pipeline.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 01:08:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Buddhism v Catholicism
I read an interesting article by the Dalai
Lama regarding the similarities
of Buddhism and
Christianity. A few examples of places where he found
similarities: In
Buddhism, there is a belief that every
living person posses
the seed of
Buddha-nature, and in Christianity, there is the idea that all
people are
created in God's likeness. His Holiness
found the greatest
similarities
between Buddhist and Christian monks however, specifically that
both Christian & Buddhist monks practice a
way of life which involve
commitment,
simplicity & modesty. He also compares the vows taken by
Christian monks
to such Buddhist principles as Pratimiksha Sutra.
This article can
be found in the may 1995 edition of "Shambhala Sun," where
there is also an
article by Father Robert Kennedy about the areas where
Catholicism and
Buddhism can find common ground. (Kenney is a Jesuit preist
and zen teacher -
a good person to read if you're interested in further
exploring the
connection between Buddhism & Catholicism).
Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 03:27:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: TSE-WSB
>But waaaait a
minute -- TSE & WSB were on real opposite sides of the fence.
>I think perhaps the most major diff was
that WSB always made it a point not
>to be judgmental; Eliot, on the other
hand, became the arbiter for at least a
>decade of American Literature, and the
stuff he was involved in publishing
>(as editor at Faber & Faber) so closed
down the local/vernacular/experimental
>possibilities
of American poetry that a generation of poets -- including many
>beat
influenced poets like Creeley, etc., found in Eliot the great villain of
>a New
American verse. See intro to Poetics of
the New American Poetry, a
>volume which
includes Pound, WC Williams and Stein as forbears but
>deliberately
EXCLUDES TSE. Eliot would not have
published (and was a major
>influence on
the publishing industry that resisted publishing) Jack, Bill,
>Allen,
etc. He WAS the canon (directly or
indirectly) throughout the 40s &
>50s. Yes he was an experimental, cut-up using,
marginal poet in the late
>teens and
early twenties, BUT once given power he used it very ungenerously
>and
dogmatically.
>Ted Pelton
Ted, I certainly get your drift here and mostly agree. For one thing, as
has
already been pointed out by William Miller,
WSB has always eschewed literary
criticism (thank god that's been true of most
of the beats!) whereas TSE
couldn't stop pontificating. Still I see resemblances however. Isn't Bull Lee
in OTR a little like the pontifical Possum?
And where is it that Burroughs
quotes, without irony, the Eliot line
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness"?
(Apologies for being without texts.) And WHERE
is that damn cut-up he did of
the Waste Land?
I don't know if WSB and TSE were
"on real opposite sides of the
fence"
but they were certainly a generation
apart. WSB was eight when the
Waste Land appeared. I myself
find it impossible to imagine Naked Lunch
as we know it without the Waste Land, and this
is not just for technical
reasons
(though the similarites in technique are
strong). It is more for a certain
sense
of the grotesquely comic that the two works share.
I admit these are just impressions. I mean to delve further. Before I go
let me add that Gary Snyder has called TSE's
Four Quartets a major work.
Yours,
Andrew
"These men,
and those who opposed them
And those whom
they opposed
Accept the
constitution of silence
And are folded in
a single party."
--Little Gidding
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:37:31 -0500
Reply-To: Peter Jaeger
<pjaeger@bosshog.arts.uwo.ca>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Jaeger
<pjaeger@BOSSHOG.ARTS.UWO.CA>
Subject: Re: Buddhism v Catholicism
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.uwo.ca>
In-Reply-To: <960206010858_415632725@emout07.mail.aol.com>
On Tue, 6 Feb
1996, Liz Prato wrote:
> I read an interesting article by the Dalai
Lama regarding the similarities
> of Buddhism
and Christianity. A few examples of places where he found
>
similarities: In Buddhism, there is a
belief that every living person posses
> the seed of
Buddha-nature, and in Christianity, there is the idea that all
> people are
created in God's likeness. His Holiness
found the greatest
> similarities
between Buddhist and Christian monks however, specifically that
> both Christian & Buddhist monks practice
a way of life which involve
> commitment,
simplicity & modesty. He also compares the vows taken by
> Christian
monks to such Buddhist principles as Pratimiksha Sutra.
>
> This article
can be found in the may 1995 edition of "Shambhala Sun," where
> there is
also an article by Father Robert Kennedy about the areas where
> Catholicism
and Buddhism can find common ground. (Kenney is a Jesuit preist
> and zen
teacher - a good person to read if you're interested in further
> exploring
the connection between Buddhism & Catholicism).
>
> Liz
>
Thomas Merton's
_Thoughts on the East_ (New directions 1995), a
collection of
earlier essays, is also a good way to enter into
catholic/buddhist
dialogue. Merton writes on his meeting
with the Dalai
Lama: "It was a very warm and cordial
discussion and at the end I felt
we had become
very good friends and were somehow quite close to one
another. I felt a great respect and fondness for him
as a person and
believe, too,
that there is a real spiritual bond between us.
He
remarked that I
was a "Catholic geshe," which, Harold said, was the
highest psooble
praise from a Gelugpa, like an honorary doctorate!"
-Peter
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:52:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Cheever on Kerouac
Not to belabor
the obvious, but the characters who inhabit John
Cheever's fiction
couldn't be any further from the spirits of those
Kerouac sketched
in his work. But I found it interesting, in this 1958
entry from John
Cheever's Journals, this commentary, based obviously
on THE
SUBTERRANEANS, but pretending to encompass and understand all
of what Kerouac
was about in his writing. There's no mention that
he's read OTR or
DHARMA BUMS, which would've been published by the
time
SUBTERRANEANS came out, but he certainly has a sort of extra-
literary ax to
grind (as, it seemed, so many folks did at the time),
appearing not to
attack the work so much as its author and/or his
lifestyle:
"My first feelings about the Kerouac
book were: that it was not
good; that most
of its accents or effects were derived from some of
the real
explorers, like Saul; and that the apocalyptic imagery was
not good enough--
was never lighted by true talent, or deep feeling,
vision. It
pleased me to catch him at a disadvantage, to sum up the
facts, which
could reflect on my lack of innocence. Here is a man of
thirty who lives
with his hard-working mother, cooks supper for her
when she gets
home from the store, has a shabby affair with a poor
Negress-- who
knows so little about herself that she is easy prey--
wrestles, very
suspiciously, with his pals, weeps in a train yard
where his
mother's image appears to him, discovers that he is
deceived, and
writes a book. The style has the advantages, to make a
rough comparison,
of abstract painting. When we give up lucidity we
have, from time
to time, the power of broader associations. Life is
chaotic, and so
we can state this in chaotic terms. In trying to
catch him at a
disadvantage, I find him vulgar, meaning perhaps
unsophisticated--
his sexual identity, his prowess, is not much. He
is a writer and
wants to be a famous writer, a rich writer, and a
successful
writer, but the question of excellence never seems to
cross his mind.
The question of the greatest depth of feeling,
of speaking with
the greatest urgency. My life is very different from
what he
describes. There is almost no point where our emotions and
affirs
correspond. I am most deeply and continuously involved in the
love of my wife
and my children. It is my passion to present to my
children the
opportunity of life. That this, this passion, has not
reformed my
nature is well known. But there is some wonderful
seriousness to
the business of living, and one is not exempted by
being a poet. You
have to take some precautions with your health. You
have to manage
your money intelligently and respect your emotional
obligations.
There is another world--I see this--there is chaos, and
we are suspended
above it by a thread. But the thread holds. People
who seek, who are
driven to seek, love in urinals, do not deserve the
best of our
attention. They will be forgiven, and anyhow, sometimes
they are not
seeking love; they are seeking a means to express their
hatred and
suspicion of the world. Sometimes."
The first
reference, to what Cheever sees as derivative similarities
between Kerouac,
and... does he mean Saul Bellow? Can anyone make
sense of this?
But primarily, I
find it interesting that, in a sense, Cheever WANTS
to like the man,
he wants to like the work, but there is something he
finds
"uncomfortable" in K's writing, something that unsettles him,
and he weaves in
and out of relevent attacks, now chastising him as
would an elder
writer a younger one (he was only 10 years older
than K, though a
century away from K in attitude), then practically
accusing him of
writing from a very base, almost smutty and
irresponsible
point of view (exposing Cheever's puritanism, his
priggishness, not
his literary critical acumen), but coming back, it
seems to a very
vague interest in K, but as what? We're not sure.
(Kerouac's sudden
rocket to fame might have something to do with
this, in that
Cheever achieved a steady though slower rise to reknown
as a writer;
jealously, I guess, can't be ruled out.) I think it shows
Cheever's
confusion when it comes to his comprehension of what is
acceptable or
what constitutes, to him, an unacceptable lifestyle.
Cheever exhibited
as much contradiction and confusion in his personal
life, if not in
his writing, something he seems to be attacking K for
in this entry.
What I will say in Cheever's favor, though, is that he
seems to be
trying to write his way into making some sense of what is
to him,
essentially, something new, something unusual (not flippantly
writing K off as,
say, Capote did), though his prejudices carry him
much of that way
to a very strange and, I think, unresolved
conclusion.
Anyone have any
other take on this?
Clay
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:14:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Happy B'Day
Thanks to Perry
Lindstrom for the happy birthday greetings to William.
Basically, he's
the only reason I'm on this list, which apparently gets
mainly Kerouac
action (that's the fault of us Burroughs people, I know)
I'll just salute
the old man again for giving us writing well into his
seventies.
Thanks, Mr.
Burroughs.
William Miller
PS The passage in
_The Cat Inside_ in which the schoolmaster at Los Alamos
kills the badger
(or some small mammal) is simply perfect Burroughs.
Profoundly sad situation. Described, the old man makes it seem
hilarious.
Folks, read it if you haven't.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:20:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Happy B'Day (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Thanks to Perry
Lindstrom for the happy birthday greetings to William.
Basically, he's
the only reason I'm on this list, which apparently gets
mainly Kerouac
action (that's the fault of us Burroughs people, I know)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, I think
Perry's comments are perceptive but don't know if I'd
go that far.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:29:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cheever on Kerouac
I agree with all
you said, Clay... but what crossed my mind while reading
your post was
"I wonder what Jack thought of Cheever?"
Had Jack been of
the type to type out a review, say, of some of Cheever's
early stuff...
what would he have said?
I think that
there was a significant want in Jack's later self to become
like those
Wapshot bigshots, taking-in the late morning poolside glass of
gin... smug,
satisfied, and beholding to their secrets.
Not much is known
of Jack's days in Northport... and article/interview here
and there. I
wonder how close Jack came to the pool in those days?
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:55:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Louis N Proyect
<lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cheever on Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <v01510102ad3d084bde7b@[198.110.207.218]>
Check out
Cheever's "Falconer" written in 1977, a tale of alcoholism,
self-hatred,
repressed homosexuality and madness. It is a lot closer to
Kerouac's
"Big Sur" than any of the Wapshot type tales. It is also closer
to Cheever the human
being, according to Susan Cheever, than the image of the
buttoned-down
suburbanite more commonly known to the reading public.
Cheever was no
Updike, the country club stuff was just a facade.
Louis Proyect
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:55:41 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization: Redwood
Free-Net
Subject: Re: Hesse and _Big Sur_
It does seem that
Kerouac would have responded more favorably to the old
Steppenwolf. (By
the way I just came across a reference in William Burrough's
book
*Exterminator*, to "Audrey Carson's first literary exercise,
'Autobiography of
a Wolf.'" I think young Burroughs really did write a piece
with that title.)
Anyway . . . a few thoughts on Kerouac's reaction. 1) He
was an alcoholic
experiencing severe mood swings (to put it mildly) so I
mistrust his
reaction to the book; the next day he may have loved it. 2) I
wonder if he
really read the entire book. 3) Later in *Big Sur* he talks
about "the
magic game of glad freedom," cf. Magic Theatre, so maybe Hesse
influenced him
more than he knew.
I don't agree
that Haller or Hesse were uninteresting old farts; they were
very interesting
old farts in my opinion. I see many similarities in Hesse
and Kerouac, two
of my favorite writers, but no direct influence of Hesse on
Kerouac, just
indirect influence and common influences such as Dostoevsky,
Nietzsche,
Spengler and Bach.
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:52:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mai kuha
<mkuha@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Your help needed
Fellow netters,
I'm a graduate
student in Linguistics and I'm writing to ask for your
help. I am interested in how people carry out
conversations (a
surprisingly
complex task!). Currently, I'm
researching how people
interpret what
their conversational partners say.
The reason I'm
contacting you is that I need data from speakers from a
variety of
dialect areas. Would you be willing to
respond to a
questionnaire
over e-mail? If you are, please send me
a note at
mkuha@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
and I'll e-mail
the questionnaire to you.
Thanks in advance
for your help!
Mai Kuha
Indiana
University, Bloomington
e-mail: mkuha@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:57:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: Re: missing texts
i remember
talking to someone in a bar two years ago about JK and he mentioned
pull my daisy. He
seemed to know alot about its making and also said he had a
copy of the film
on video. i don't know how reliable his info was but i can
contact him
again. is this any use? voshea@dit.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:43:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andra <asg5@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: beat writers, current status
I hope I don't
sound too naive, but are Kerouac and Ginsberg still alive?
If so, where are
they living and what are they up to? I
gather from the
posts of the past
few days that Burroughs is still alive.
Thanks in advance
for any information.
Andra
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * * *
Well, the wind
keeps a-blowin' me
Up and down the
street Andra
Greenberg
With my hat in my
hand Duke University
And my boots on
my feet
asg5@acpub.duke.edu
Watch out so you
don't step on me
"Bob Dylan's Blues"
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * * *
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:10:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: Hesse and _Big Sur_
My
apologies: I hope the Hesse/Beat tangent
is relevent here
and interesting.
Dan Barth's last
post sheds a new light on the Hesse reception
in JK-- perhaps
JK was truly more "influenced" by Hesse than
he thought. Given the circumstances around the time of
_Big Sur_ (as Dan
points out), one must really question the
truth of JK's
statements. We must also consider the
authorial
perspective,
which leads me to a question: are the
words
in _Big Sur_
uttered by JK himself, or does there exist
the possibility
of a (fictional?) narrator?? We must (in
any
work of art)
consider the degree of authorial influence--
often this
approximates 100%, other times 0%. This
was a
topic of recent
list debate. But I digress.
Dan (or anyone
else who might know), could you give me more
info. regarding
this "Autobiography of a Wolf" (?) by Burroughs.
I, too, agree
with Dan that neither Hesse nor Haller were
unnteresting old
farts. They were certainly not
uninteresting,
but I do think it
could be argued that they were old farts, who
were able to put
their respective "old-fartedness" behind them
(no pun intended)
and transcend to higher levels of being.
Was this also not
also a goal of many of the Beats??
Cheers,
Trevor
Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:16:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Your help needed
>The reason
I'm contacting you is that I need data from >speakers from a
variety of
dialect areas. Would you be >willing
to respond to a
questionnaire
over e-mail?
Sure.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:17:56 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Janet Hoelle
<97jhoell@ULTRIX.UOR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hesse and _Big Sur_
In-Reply-To: <01I0UU38IOVM8X9NLJ@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
DEAR TREVOR,
IF you are
interested in discovering what the Beat ideals were, you
should read GOOD
BLONDE AND OTHERS by Jack Kerouac. I think the essays in
this compilation
of works, reveal
what the essence
of the Beat movement was. Also, if you want something on
Kerouac, the Ann
Charters biography entitled Kerouac is the best I've
found yet.
NICOLE HOELLE
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:16:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Happy B'Day
On Feb 06, 1996
11:14:13, 'William Miller <KenofWNC@AOL.COM>' wrote:
>I'll just
salute the old man again for giving us writing well into his
>seventies.
>
>Thanks, Mr.
Burroughs.
>
>William
Miller
I met and
interviewed ol' Bull Lee in the late 70's in his loft on Bowery
and Prince. I'm sure he still looks and sounds about the
same. I'll never
forget him.
Mark Johnson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:16:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Cheever on Kerouac
On Feb 06, 1996
13:55:24, 'Louis N Proyect <lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>' wrote:
>Cheever was
no Updike, the country club stuff was just a facade.
>
>Louis Proyect
For a more
complete picture, read "Journals" by John Cheever. They are
completely
autobiographical and shattered quite a few illusions. I don't
think they lessen
his stature as a writer, but they give great insight into
the alcoholism,
the bi-sexuality, etc.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 00:24:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "DOUGLAS W. WACKER"
<dwacker@IN.NET>
Subject: Re: Missing Texts
>Could
somebody please help me. I'm trying to get hold of the following texts
>by Jack. I've
searched everywhere and come up empty handed. These are the
>books I'm
after.
> Pull my
daisy
> Wake up
> Some of the
dharma
>
> Thanks.
> Tim.
You know, I'm not
sure about this, but not long ago I saw a book called 'Big
Sky Mind
- Buddhism and
the Beat Generation' and I think segments of 'Some of the
Dharma' were
printed in there. I may be wrong because
I was broke and
couldn't buy the
book so I
just skimmed
it. It might of just had sections of
'Scripture of the Golden
Eternity' (avail.
through City Lights Publishing) in it.
Hope I could
help.... Doug.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:32:15 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott Holstad <sch@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status
In-Reply-To:
<199602062043.PAA20964@jeter.acpub.duke.edu>
On Tue, 6 Feb
1996, Andra wrote:
> I hope I
don't sound too naive, but are Kerouac and Ginsberg still alive?
Kerouac died in
1969. Ginsberg is alive and living in
NYC.
> If so, where
are they living and what are they up to?
I belive Ginsberg
teaches at CUNY (at least at Brooklyn College), as well
as Naropa
occasionally. Also tours/lectures, etc.
I gather from the
> posts of the
past few days that Burroughs is still alive.
> Thanks in
advance for any information.
> Andra
>
>
> * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * * *
> Well, the
wind keeps a-blowin' me
> Up and down
the street Andra
Greenberg
> With my hat
in my hand Duke
University
> And my boots
on my feet
asg5@acpub.duke.edu
> Watch out so
you don't step on me
> "Bob Dylan's Blues"
> * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * * *
* * *
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 03:14:30 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph McNicholas
<mcnichol@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Sarah Schulman
In Sarah
Schulman's Girls Visions and Everything (Seal Press, 1986),
Kerouac's OTR is
used as a reminder throughout of (among other things) the
tension between
commitment to individuals and freedom, of the tension
between
"stability and stagnation."
One way she works out this tension is
to point out that
the lesbian community could use the kind of self-generated
popular press
that the Beats gave themselves. She says
(p 59-60) "Guys like
Jack, William
Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg, some of them were smart and had
some good ideas
and wrote some lasting and inspiring work.
Mostly, though,
they weren't all
the geniuses their reputations implied.
The thing was,
they made a
phenomenon of themselves. They made
themselves into the
fashion, each
quoting from the other, building an image based not so much on
their work as on
the idea that they lead interesting lives. . . .that is
exactly what
lesbians needed to do."
Often, this exact
point is used as a criticism of the Beats.
Yet Schulman,
who actually went
on to do just that for lesbians through the Lesbian
Avengers, which
started in 1992 as a political action/media blitz, used it
to try to affect
real social change of consciousness.
Although I am sure
that Schulman's
feelings about the Beats is pretty mixed, I was excited to
see them fit into
a continuing and very lively tradition of social and
artistic
endeavor. I was wondering what the list
might think, and if anyone
has more info
about other groups who have found some modicum of inspiration
in the Beats, or
more on Schulman, herself. I was also
wondering if there
were lesbian beat
writers who I may be unaware of.
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph McNicholas
mcnichol@mail.utexas.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph McNicholas
mcnichol@mail.utexas.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:27:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Bob Donlin died
Founder of the legendary Cambridge, MA
folk venue, Passim, and friend
of Jack Kerouac, who appeared in Jack's
books under the name Bob
Donnelly, died on Monday, 5 Feb 1996, at
the age of 72. Today's Boston
Globe has a memorial to him in the Living
Arts section.
Mark Fisher
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:51:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Igor Satanovsky <Isat@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sarah Schulman
>I was also
wondering if there
>were lesbian
beat writers who I may be unaware of.
One you may be
interested in is Eileen Myles. Check out
Black Sparrow Press
Catalogs for
"Maxwell Parish" and
"Chelsea Girls".
i.s.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:01:45 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Jacobs
<RJACOBS@THYME.UVM.EDU>
Organization:
University of Vermont
Subject: Neal -- Happy Birthday
Neal Cassady
February 8, 1926
An Aquarian, he
embodied its characteristics: mentally brilliant,
dynamic, intense,
and full of an explosive, electric-type energy that
shatters the old
forms in order to make way for the new.
At the same
time he
represented a humane, non-judegemental benevolence that seeks
the brotherhood
of man and promotes brotherly love; that gives
everyone the
rgith to experience the "garden of earthly delights."
-Carolyn Cassady
in Spit in the Ocean, Number 6.
-
Ron
Jacobs\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\How in the heck
Bailey/Howe
Library\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\will I wash my neck
University of
Vermont\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\if it ain't
rjacobs@thyme.uvm.edu\\\\\\\\\\\\gonna'
rain no more?
Burlington,VT USA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:14:57 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re:
mexico city blues
For lots of
insight into Kerouac's *Mexico City Blues* check out *A Map of
Mexico City
Blues* by James T. Jones. In the back is
an index of choruses.
He refers the
S.S. Excalibur bit to a dream of Kerouac's (p.56, *Book of
Dreams*).
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:20:32 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Burroughs/Wolves
Here's the
Burroughs bit from his book *Exterminator*, a collection of short
pieces. The
routine titled "The Lemon Kid" begins:
"As a young child Audrey Carsons
wanted to be writers because writers
were rich and
famous. They lounged around Singapore and Rangoon smoking opium
in a yellow
pongee suits. They sniffed cocaine in Mayfair and they penetrated
forbidden swamps
with a faithful native boy and lived in the native quarter
of Tangier
smoking hashish and languidly caressing a pet gazelle.
"His first literary exercise was
called *The Autobiography of a Wolf*.
People laughed
and said: 'You mean the biography of a wolf.' No he meant
*auto* biography
of a wolf . . . "
(p.9)
I don't have any
of the Burroughs bios on hand, but as I recall *El Hombre
Invisible* refers
to this bit as being true of Burroughs.
Howl on,
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:21:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Hesse and _Big Sur_
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:17:56 -0800
from
<97jhoell@ULTRIX.UOR.EDU>
On Tue, 6 Feb
1996 12:17:56 -0800 Janet Hoelle said:
>DEAR TREVOR,
>
>IF you are
interested in discovering what the Beat ideals were, you
>should read
GOOD BLONDE AND OTHERS by Jack Kerouac. I think the essays in
>this
compilation of works, reveal
>what the
essence of the Beat movement was. Also, if you want something on
>Kerouac, the
Ann Charters biography entitled Kerouac is the best I've
>found yet.
>
>NICOLE HOELLE
For a more recent
overview, check out Lisa Phillips essay "Beat Culture: Americ
a
Revisioned" in Beat Culture & the New America, Flammarion, 1995.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:59:17 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph McNicholas
<mcnichol@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sarah Schulman
Comments: To:
Janet Hoelle <97jhoell@ultrix.uor.edu>
Nicole, Thanks
for responding. I'll try to answer a
bit. Being a fiction
writer herself, I
think Schulman finds a lot that is good in Kerouac. In
fact, she has a
character named Sal Paradise, her protagonist speaks of
other characters
as being Carlo Marx figures, she writes some Kerouacian
passages,
etc. She also creates amalgams of other
styles both from literary
history and from
the society around her, as you said Kerouac had. I felt
you had an
interestnig definition of genius as both
"originator" and as
someone who
borrows from others (Wolfe, Stein, Rimbaud).
That is a key
tension in
creative processes, I think. Her work
includes Fitzgeraldian
passages (sort
of), the rhythms of street life in the East Village,
performance art,
etc, and then it seems to originate a new way for thinking
about lesbian
lives.
I think what she
sees is that the world is swarming with people who do great
things who never
become famous, or even ackowledged. The
East Village she
writes about is
certainly that way now and NYC was when Kerouac was then
(not to mention
the rest of the world). The problem is
no one notices. One
of Schulman's
characters, goes to find out who a writer named Peretz is. .
.they have named
a street after him at Houston and First, but today, barely
anyone knows who
he is. . . .it turns out he is an excellent Yiddish writer
whose audience,
subject matter and language was basically killed off in the
war. It seems to me that she saw that the Beats
prevented their subculture
from being killed
off by making it more visible (a version
of Out Loud and
Proud?).
She sees their
continued fame are relying on perpetuating their
name-brand-recognition
through things like cross-quoting each other (Howl's
dedication for
example, or the constant using of each other as characters in
their books, thus
creating a mythology about them. . . .
Carlo Marx, Old
Bull Lee, etc.),
like managing to get themselves and their friends
interviewed on
Steve Allen, and being written about in
Time and Life. They
were able to even
get Dobie Gillis, so that (a totally commodified) image of
the Beats could
get into every TV home, so that some of those people would
buy their books,
so that another one of their friends, Ferlinghetti, could
float a
press--City Lights-- so that they could publish more of their books,
so that they
would have more book reviews in which they quote their friends,
and refer to
them. . . .etc. [In fact, I've even
heard it said that they
helped their
rivals as well, that Ginsberg kept referring to Ashberry and
the New York
School, which gave them popularity, too].
I think Schulman saw
that whole
dynamic as an important part of creating
a movement, of becoming
acclaimed. And that lesbians (as totally kooky as this
is to everyday
logic, could
benefit from a similar popularity -media blitz.
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph McNicholas
mcnichol@mail.utexas.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:39:31 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: neal cassady
hello.
can someone help
me out here. i know very little of
neal's death
other than the
fact he died in 1968, just short of his 44th birthday
(had he lived
he'd have been 72 today?), found near rail tracks (how
apt!) a victim of
booze & drugs.
'visions of
kerouac - the life of jack kerouac by charles jarvis' then
states that he
reckons neal fulfilled his death wish!
explaining that
anyone who lives
'on the edge' for so long will eventually fall over
it.
from what i've
read of neal, nowhere does it mention 'a death wish' as
a way of life, even
in the (abstract) context of mr. jarvis' explanation of
'living on the
edge, eventually falling over it'. i
realise this is only one
person's point of
view but it made me think (a little).
i'd like to know
more please...
also, anyone know
anything more about the movie version of 'on the
road'. i know it will be crap compared to the book,
never capturing
the essence &
meaning of the characters and generation etc. etc. etc.
but. it's what our generation (people who are
alive now!) will be leaving
behind for the
televisionfed future generations.
i'd like to know
a little more please...
joe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail:
joe.carney@unn.ac.uk or 100106.1102@compuserve.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
'there is no new
language. just the same words with a
different intent...'
- jack kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:19:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: neal cassady (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:39:31 EST
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: neal cassady
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
also, anyone know
anything more about the movie version of 'on the
road'. i know it will be crap compared to the book,
never capturing
the essence &
meaning of the characters and generation etc. etc. etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please!! Not again . . . .
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:25:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: neal cassady
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:39:31 EST from
<100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
On Thu, 8 Feb
1996 07:39:31 EST Joe said:
>hello.
>
>can someone
help me out here. i know very little of
neal's death
>other than
the fact he died in 1968, just short of his 44th birthday
>(had he lived
he'd have been 72 today?), found near rail tracks (how
>apt!) a
victim of booze & drugs.
>
>'visions of
kerouac - the life of jack kerouac by charles jarvis' then
>states that
he reckons neal fulfilled his death wish!
explaining that
>anyone who
lives 'on the edge' for so long will eventually fall over
>it.
>
>from what
i've read of neal, nowhere does it mention 'a death wish' as
>a way of
life, even in the (abstract) context of mr. jarvis' explanation of
>'living on
the edge, eventually falling over it'. i
realise this is only one
>person's point
of view but it made me think (a little).
>
>i'd like to
know more please...
>
>also, anyone
know anything more about the movie version of 'on the
>road'. i know it will be crap compared to the book,
never capturing
>the essence
& meaning of the characters and generation etc. etc. etc.
>
>but. it's what our generation (people who are
alive now!) will be leaving
>behind for
the televisionfed future generations.
>
>i'd like to
know a little more please...
>
>joe
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>e-mail:
joe.carney@unn.ac.uk or 100106.1102@compuserve.com
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>'there is no
new language. just the same words with a
different intent...'
> - jack kerouac.
Check out the
Cassady issue of Spit In The Ocean.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:53:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: neal cassady
In-Reply-To:
<960208123931_100106.1102_EHQ115-1@CompuServe.COM> from
"Joe" at
Feb 8, 96 07:39:31 am
have you read
carolyn's book, "off the road?"
she writes a
wonderful tale....with compassion...and understanding....
> hello.
>
> can someone
help me out here. i know very little of
neal's death
> other than
the fact he died in 1968, just short of his 44th birthday
> (had he
lived he'd have been 72 today?), found near rail tracks (how
> apt!) a
victim of booze & drugs.
anyone check out
kesey's essay, "the day superman died"
>
> 'visions of
kerouac - the life of jack kerouac by charles jarvis' then
> states that
he reckons neal fulfilled his death wish!
explaining that
> anyone who
lives 'on the edge' for so long will eventually fall over
> it.
>
> from what
i've read of neal, nowhere does it mention 'a death wish' as
> a way of
life, even in the (abstract) context of mr. jarvis' explanation of
> 'living on
the edge, eventually falling over it'. i
realise this is only one
> person's
point of view but it made me think (a little).
>
> i'd like to
know more please...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:14:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller
<KenofWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs/Wolves
Comments: To:
Dan_Barth@redwoodfn.org
heLLo folks.
Dan Barth wrote
thatt |||"His first literary exercise was called *The
Autobiography of
a Wolf*.
People laughed
and said: 'You mean the biography of a wolf.' No he meant
*auto* biography
of a wolf . . . "
(p.9)
I don't have any
of the Burroughs bios on hand, but as I recall *El Hombre
Invisible* refers
to this bit as being true of Burroughs.|||
Yep, that's close
enough. I think that it established
WSB's literary
vantagepoint as
that of the outsider, eh ?
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:25:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: SIP
Last nite I was
re-reading Kerouac`s Satori In Paris. While not on the level
of OTR and TDB,
it is a truly fascinating short novel: a chronicle of K`s
search for his
roots in France, and the true endpiece of the Duluoz Legend.
It is replete
with humour, sometimes of a rather wacky kind, eg., when the
airport chimes
calling K to his flight to Brest (which he ends up missing
because of a
visit to the john) brings to his mind the tune Mathilda ("ma -
til - da").
There is much rueful humour or musing, some of it directed at
himself. The
satori in question, as pointed out by Gerry Nicosia, was
finding a human
connection with his Paris cab driver, a guy from the
Auvergne (not
Brittany - which on the whole seemed to repel Jack), who was
working on a
Sunday to help support his family ( talk about the Beat
attitude to
family responsibility), and who stopped at a cafe with Jack to
have a beer with
him because he knew Jack needed a drink. Sometimes I think
that rather than
see a film made of OTR, with its cosmic issues and
practical complications
of ever getting done, some sensitive filmmaker (a
French- Canadian
would be perfect for SIP) should take on a lesser Kerouac
book, such as
SIP. Another perfect choice - Vanity of Dulouz, which would
make a fine,
elegiac, melancholic film if someone did it right. Not that VOD
is one of his
lesser books, come to think of it, but that`s another story...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:02:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: SIP
I wonder if Kerouac was aware of the irony
associated with this
acronym for Satori in Paris?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:36:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: SIP
Good catch, Mark,
I hadn`t thought that the acronym SIP might have been
intended as an
ironical reference by Jack. I think he must have intended the
irony. The
partial evidence of that may be that in VOD he goes to the
trouble of
pointing out that SIP was written with a bottle at his side and
was the first of
his books to be so written. I believe this to be true,
despite the gibes
over the years that he was drunk or stoned when he wrote
his classic
works. For example, in a letter in Charters` recent edition of
his early
letters, Jack states that he wrote OTR "on coffee". The beauty of
much of its prose
leads me not to doubt him for an instant. I believe he may
have used bennies
to write, but I believe this was principally to stay up
for nights on
end. So, the irony you`ve detected may have two edges to it:
that he was drunk
for much of the trip in France, but also when he wrote
SIP. But it is
still a good book, which shows how much talent he had to
start with...and
to waste to some degree, unfortunately...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:46:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: PostModBuddhaMan
I have somehow
managed to lose a couple postings that I wanted to
respond to in
more detail, but I'll try to wing it as best I can.
Mainly it has to
do with the Buddhism vs. Catholicism thing.
Before I say any
more I should confess my ignorance of most
formal religious
structures, i.e. ceremonies be they Catholic or
Buddhist -- I was
raised a Unitarian. My comments about
Buddhism
are pretty much
exclusively based on my own background in Taoism
and more of a
Allan Watts/Zen approach, so I shouldn't profess to
know anything
about the more formal branches of Buddhism.
The
statement that
"God is an interesting con man," was meant along
the lines of a
Zen Koan, rather than to be interpreted as a
literal statement
about God, etc. -- so let me leave that at
that. What I think is more important to the Beats
is the general
introduction of
the more non-linear, Eastern thinking patterns
into their
art. This, if anything is what qualifies
them for
being Postmoderns
if we are to believe they are rather more than
just
neo-Romantics -- or if we care. Maybe I
have said this on
the list before,
but Harold Bloom, who of course trashes the
Beats, did
include Snyder on his Western Canon list -- neither
Kerouac nor
Ginsberg made it -- don't even ask about Burroughs.
Snyder is the
most "serious" Buddhist of the lot.
I wonder if
Bloom is
acknowledging the important influence of Eastern thought
on the evolution
of poetry in "the (his) canon?"
Maybe he just
included Snyder
to piss-off Ginsberg -- like leaving a 2 cent tip
so they know you
didn't forget.
Perry L.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:55:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Neal Cassidy's Death
Carolyn Cassidy
explains his death at the end of her book Off The Road. She
says he was going
down to a friend's house in mexico and he wondered off
probably stoned
or high (the reason for going I believe) along the railroad
tracks in
Veracruz I think. Either way I bet he
planned it because the
railroad was his
life. A good way to die for Neal if you
ask me.
nyh
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:56:17 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Ginsberg question
Last night I had
a dream I was walking home at dawn and a big white crane flew
out of a tree and
landed near me. I woke up, made a cup of coffee, sat back
in bed and picked
up Ginsberg's *The Fall of America* from bedside bookshelf.
(Had seen him
last night on PBS history of rock talking about Eleanor Rigby.)
My bookmark was
at pp.34, 35 and the first thing I noticed was at the top of
page 34:
"Crane all's well, the wanderer returns/from the west with his
Powers." So
I am wondering if any of you know what Allen's "Crane" reference
is here. I can't
figure it out from the context.
Thanx,
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:24:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg question
Comments: To:
Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Perhaps its a
reference to Hart Crane.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 11:00:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Neal Cassidy's Death
In-Reply-To: <01I11RUT73AY0024BJ@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
from "Nicholas Herren" at Feb
10, 96 12:55:42 pm
>
> Carolyn
Cassidy explains his death at the end of her book Off The Road. She
> says he was
going down to a friend's house in mexico and he wondered off
> probably
stoned or high (the reason for going I believe) along the railroad
> tracks in
Veracruz I think. Either way I bet he
planned it because the
> railroad was
his life. A good way to die for Neal if
you ask me.
he was counting
railroad ties.....
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 14:13:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Neal Cassidy's Death
The story as I
remember it, says he made a bet about how many railroad
ties between the
town in Mexico and San Jose (or some equally outrageous
distance) and
yes, was counting the ties. The story also goes that his
last words were
the number of ties he had counted to where he had
collapsed with
exposure.
Maybe someone can
help me out with this.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 14:57:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Neal Cassidy's Death
>The story as
I remember it, says he made a bet about how many railroad
>ties between
the town in Mexico and San Jose (or some equally outrageous
>distance) and
yes, was counting the ties. The story also goes that his
>last words
were the number of ties he had counted to where he had
>collapsed
with exposure.
>
>Maybe someone
can help me out with this.
This is the stuff
legends are made of, Mark! Kesey wrote,
in the Superman
essay I think,
about the last words being the number of ties he'd counted.
Sounds like a
good ol' Kesey myth to me... wonderful wonderful.
So -- the
question is, then, what was the number?
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 17:12:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Re: Neal Cassidy's Death
In-Reply-To: <v01510102ad4506038c15@[198.110.207.212]>
In "The Day
After Superman Died", Kesey says that Cassidy's last words
were sixty-four
thousand, nine hundred and twenty eight.
While its a
great story about
Neal's manic personality, I somehow doubt its
factuality. It's been a while since I read it, but I
don't remember
Carolyn Cassidy
including the fact in "Off the Road"
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 16:30:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Cassady mathematics
I probably should let this go, but...how
could Kesey's number be
anything other than fiction, unless he was
there. Better to think Neal
is still counting.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 17:24:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>I hope I
don't sound too naive, but are Kerouac and Ginsberg still alive?
Kerouac, No;
Ginsberg, Yes, and struggling.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 21:37:46 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Toby Litt <litt@EASYNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Football Career
Hi, I've just
joined the list, so I don't know if this has been covered before.
I hope not.
Apologies if it has.
I'm interested in
Kerouac's football career. Does anyone have any stats? or
any of the
newspaper reports that were written about him?
I'm also very
interested in the injury that ended his sporting career and
began his
literary one - sitting there in bed reading everyone and
everything. Is
there a good account of this anywhere?
Thanks in advance
for any responses.
Toby
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 18:00:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: More or less (Moraless?) on Cassady.
I've become one
of the lurkers here recently, but these
conversations on
Cassady has provoked me into some
interesting
thoughts that I'm having difficulty working with
since
comparitively I'm so badly read on the Beats.. at
least as far as
Cassady goes. Anyhow, I'm working on
some thoughts for
"performance art" in respect to this
idea of walking
along a railroad track and counting the
ties before
dying. I'm not exactly sure where to focus on
this, but could
someone either direct me to a good book
to read or
possibly give some information on Cassady's
personal life
that would inspire someone to walk along
the railroad
tracks until dying. I'd appreciate most some
good quotes that
could be used in the peice, and if
anyone has any
vague ideas on how this could be
interpreted to
the stage, feel free to interject.
..Critter
(Chris.Ritter@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 23:18:28 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: More or less (Moraless?) on Cassady.
>I'm working
on
>some thoughts
for "performance art" in respect to this
>idea of
walking along a railroad track and counting the
>ties before
dying. I'm not exactly sure where to focus on
>this, but
could someone either direct me to a good book
>to read or
possibly give some information on Cassady's
>personal life
that would inspire someone to walk along
>the railroad
tracks until dying.
Must read
"On The Road" by Kerouac before even attempting to work on this
idea as
performance art. Also, I don't think Neal intended to walk along
tracks till he
died. Read as much as you can about Neal and Jack and Allen
before attempting
to perform a piece about them. No simple answers; no
answers at all.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 22:52:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status
In a message
dated 96-02-12 17:26:03 EST, you write:
>>I hope I
don't sound too naive, but are Kerouac and Ginsberg still alive?
>
>Kerouac, No;
Ginsberg, Yes, and struggling.
>
>
>
I was wondering
if Burroughs is still alive? A friend of
mine told me he
died but I don't
think that this is true. Please say it
is so, that he
lives.
Again I am new
here so untill I get situated, please bear with me.
-Carl-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 22:55:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Hello
I just wanted to
introduce myself, I am new to this
list. I joined it
because I read On
the Road and fell in love with the beats.
So, here I am.
not much else to say at this point.
-Carl-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 23:09:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Football Career (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Toby Litt <litt@EASYNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Football Career
I'm interested in
Kerouac's football career. Does anyone have any stats? or
any of the
newspaper reports that were written about him?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerouac was
featured in an article in Sports Illustrated but as I am not
near my
"stuff" right now I can't give you the bibliographic info. Check
any decent bibliography
linke the MLA or even the Reader's Guide for that
period and you
can get the citation for the piece.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 23:17:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
I was wondering
if Burroughs is still alive? A friend of
mine told me he
died but I don't
think that this is true. Please say it
is so, that he
lives.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't you catch
his wonderful work last year in the Nike ads?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 20:03:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Web Fiction/Poetry Reading
In-Reply-To: <960212225550_142687148@mail06.mail.aol.com>
from "Carl Luoma" at
Feb 12, 96 10:55:52 pm
Hi everyone -- to
all the New Yorkers on this list, would you like
to come to a
fiction/poetry event featuring writers who've written for
the web? It's at Biblio's, 317 Church St. in Tribeca
(just south of
Canal St.) and
it's Valentine's Day (Feb 14) at 8 pm.
Here's the
list of readers
and websites they've written for:
Meg W. Stein: The Omega Female, Enterzone,
Literary Kicks
Edward Fristrom: Jamie's Amateur Fiction Hour
Dave Kushner: SonicNet, Alt-X
Clay Shirky: Urban Desires
Peter Crumlish: Enterzone
Maureen McClarnon: Alt-X/io
Phil Zampino: "The Squid"
Ben Cohen: Alt-X/io
Galinsky: Pseudo Online Radio
David Alexander: Enterzone
Nicole Blackman: SonicNet
Jamie Fristrom: Jamie's Amateur Fiction Hour,
Enterzone
Levi Asher:
Literary Kicks,
Enterzone, Levity
Should be at
least a moderate amount of Beat spirit there.
I'm hoping
it'll be a real
seminal event, unless of course it sucks, in which
case it'll suck.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"people tell me it's
a sin
to know and feel too much
within"
-- bob dylan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:33:28 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: William S Burroughs lives
In-Reply-To:
<960212225201_421122079@emout08.mail.aol.com>
> I was
wondering if Burroughs is still alive? A
friend of mine told me he
> died but I
don't think that this is true. Please
say it is so, that he
> lives.
>
> Again I am
new here so untill I get situated, please bear with me.
>
> -Carl-
Carl
WSB is indeed still
alive. What I would like to know is what he's
currently up to,
what projects he's working on at present if any. Does
anyone have any
thoughts on this?
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:06:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific
I too had a dream
about Ginsberg recently. I walked across
a prairie in
a blizzard to get
to this winter resort (on the prairie?!).
In the
middle of the
parking lot was a row of bookshelves. I
kept looking
through the piles
of books on the beat generation there but couldn't find
a thing on
Ginsberg. The surly librarian (who
rather reminded me of a
linebacker) kept
threatening to pound me into the ground based on my
limited knowledge
of Ginsberg. Help me...what has he done
since the sixties?
Also...I was
wondering something about Kerouac. Did
he ever write his
impressions on
the movement towards modern jazz (a la late Coltrane,
Mingus,
etc.). He seemed to be struck by the new
sounds of bop in the
early
fifties. What did he think about the
next big trend in jazz?
Based on the
spirituality and depth that the free jazz players were
searching for I
can't help but think that Kerouac wouldn't have dug in
some way...
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:44:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Allen Ginsberg---post beatific
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.960213105943.81677A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca> from
"Noah Bergman" at Feb
13, 96 10:06:14 am
Noah Bergman
writes:
> I too had a
dream about Ginsberg recently. I walked
across a prairie in
> a blizzard
to get to this winter resort (on the prairie?!). In the
> middle of
the parking lot was a row of bookshelves.
I kept looking
> through the
piles of books on the beat generation there but couldn't find
> a thing on
Ginsberg. The surly librarian (who
rather reminded me of a
> linebacker)
kept threatening to pound me into the ground based on my
> limited
knowledge of Ginsberg. Help me...what
has he done since the
> sixties?
Noah--
The *Collected
Poems* will take you up to 1980. I
enjoyed *Cosmopolitan
Greetings*
(1992), his most recent collection. As
one would expect from
any volume of
poetry, *C. Greetings* has some uneven spots, but as a
whole it seems a
nice continuation of Ginsberg's adaptation of language
to breath, and of
his fusion of Eastern and Western consciousness. Last
year he did a
reading tour for his latest publication of journals,
*Journals,
Mid-Fifties: 1954-1958*. I saw him read from the book here
in Boston, and by
my observation he was gracious and energetic. Hope
this helps.
Best,
Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:44:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Louis N Proyect
<lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.960213105943.81677A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>
On Tue, 13 Feb
1996, Noah Bergman wrote:
>
> Also...I was
wondering something about Kerouac. Did
he ever write his
> impressions
on the movement towards modern jazz (a la late Coltrane,
> Mingus,
etc.). He seemed to be struck by the new
sounds of bop in the
> early
fifties. What did he think about the
next big trend in jazz?
> Based on the
spirituality and depth that the free jazz players were
> searching
for I can't help but think that Kerouac wouldn't have dug in
> some way...
>
Kerouac was in
his dotage by 1963 when free jazz burst on the scene. He
was an alcoholic,
reactionary and burnt-out has-been when Archie Shepp,
John Coltrane,
etc. were raising hell. Kerouac hated the 1960's.
Ginsberg is
another story altogether. He loved and has loved everything
that is new and
experimental.
American devours
its creators and artists by embracing them within the
pages of
magazines like Time and TV shows like Dobie Gillis. Ginsberg
never took
himself so seriously as to buy into all this bullshit. I don't
think Burroughs
loses sleep either for having done Nike ads. Meanwhile,
all Kerouac
thought about was writing a screenplay based on
"On the
Road" and cursed Hollywood and himself for not having achieved this.
The Kerouac we
all love was the Kerouac of the late 1940s. It is simply
amazing how much
of a creep and a loser he became as soon as he got some
fame. He was an
obnoxious drunk shortly after his writing career turned
successful. Check
out Gerard Nicosia's "Memory Babe" for the
best available
portrait of Kerouac in both his ascendancy and decline.
Louis Proyect
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:56:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Neal Cassidy's Death
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.960212170940.46849B-100000@juliet.stfx.ca> from
"Noah Bergman" at Feb
12, 96 05:12:12 pm
>
> In "The
Day After Superman Died", Kesey says that Cassidy's last words
> were
sixty-four thousand, nine hundred and twenty eight. While its a
> great story
about Neal's manic personality, I somehow doubt its
>
factuality. It's been a while since I
read it, but I don't remember
> Carolyn
Cassidy including the fact in "Off the Road"
she didn't
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:24:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: William S Burroughs lives
WSB is indeed
still alive. What I would like to know is what he's
currently up to,
what projects he's working on at present if any. Does
anyone have any
thoughts on this?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Miles'
recent bio of Burroughs had some interesting points about
his recent life
(I think it came out in '92ish - it's been awhile since I
read it). He was and is selling paintings which he
makes by shooting
spray paint cans with
guns. Very appropriate I think.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:27:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Louis N Proyect
<lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
It is simply
amazing how much
of a creep and a loser he became as soon as he got some
fame. He was an
obnoxious drunk shortly after his writing career turned
successful.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I understand,
he was pretty much like that his whole life.
He always
ragged on Allen
for being a Jew and his strict right-wing attitudes were
there (oddly
enough) pretty much all his life. Many
folks disliked
when he showed up
for his long weekends in NY away from his Mother
because he was a
boor in many ways.
What does anyone
else think?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:02:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: JK Literary Prize
Guidelines for
the 8th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize are attached.
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize is sponsored by Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc,
the Estate of of Jack and Stella Kerouac, Middlesex
Community College
and the University of Massachusetts in Lowell. Emerging
and established
writers are encouraged to submit their work. The prize
consists of a
$500 honorarium and an invitation to read the prize winning
manuscript at the
9th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival, 3-6
October 1996 in
Lowell, MA. Guidelines can also be obtained by sending a
request with a
SASE to The Jack Kerouac Literary Prize, PO Box 8788,
Lowell, MA
01853-8788.
Please pass this
announcement and guidelines along!
Thanks.
Mark Hemenway
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc8th ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE
Experienced and
emerging writers are invited to submit written works in
competition for the 8th Annual Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize. This Prize will
consist of a $500 honorarium and an invitation
to present the prize winning
manuscript at a public reading during the 9th
Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
Festival in Lowell, MA from 3 through 6
October 1996.
SUBMISSIONS MUST
MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:
1. All works must be in English and not
previously published.
2. Submissions will be accepted between 1
April 1996 and 1 August 1996. Entries
postmarked before 1 April 1996 and after 1
August 1996 will not be accepted.
The deadline for all entries is 1 August 1996.
3. The author's name must not appear
anywhere on the manuscript.
4. Submissions must be accompanied by a 3x5
index card containing the author's
name, address, telephone number and manuscript
title.
5. We are unable to return any manuscripts.
Authors will retain all rights and
privileges to their work including full
copyright protection.
6. An entry fee of $5.00 must accompany each
submission. Please make checks
payable to: LOWELL CELEBRATES KEROUAC!
8. Submissions must meet the following
format requirements:
FICTION:
a. Submit one, typed, double-spaced
copy of your manuscript;
b. Your entry
must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a novel; or a
maximum of three (3) short stories with a
combined length of thirty pages or
less.
POETRY:
a. Submit one typed copy of your
manuscript;
b. Your entry
must not exceed eight (8) poems with a combined length of 15 pages
or less. No entry may exceed fifteen (15)
pages.
NON-FICTION:
a. Submit one typed, double-spaced copy
of your manuscript;
b. Your entry
must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a volume, or a
maximum of three (3) essays with a combined
length of thirty (30) pages or
less.
9. Submit all
manuscripts to:
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize
P.O. Box 8788
Lowell, MA
01853-8788
10. Authors will
receive notification of the prize winner by September 15, 1996.
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize is sponsored by Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc
(a non-profit organization), The Estate of
Jack and Stella Kerouac, Middlesex
Community College, and the University of
Massachusetts at Lowell.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:30:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Kerouac...an obnoxious fellow?
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.stfx.ca>
In-Reply-To:
<960213.113014.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
I seem to
remember reading something Ann Charters wrote about visiting
Kerouacvery late
in his life and how he kept insuating that he wanted to
have sex with her
before she left. (please forgive me if
this is wrong.
I read a lot of
stuff and I could have made a mistake).
Descriptions of
telephone
conversations he had with Carolyn Cassidy later on also point
to his being a
general asshole. But man, his writing
more than
compensates for a
poor personality!
Also...does
anyone know where I can find a written version of Kerouac's
"origins of
bop" essay. I've heard his reading
of it and would really
love to have a
transcription.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:34:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (fwd)
I seem to
remember reading something Ann Charters wrote about visiting
Kerouac very late
in his life and how he kept insuating that he wanted to
have sex with her
before she left. (please forgive me if
this is wrong.
I read a lot of
stuff and I could have made a mistake).
Descriptions of
telephone
conversations he had with Carolyn Cassidy later on also point
to his being a
general asshole. But man, his writing
more than
compensates for a
poor personality!
Also...does
anyone know where I can find a written version of Kerouac's
"origins of
bop" essay. I've heard his reading
of it and would really
love to have a
transcription.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:59:16 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Football Career
Check out *Vanity
of Duluoz* for Kerouac's account of this period of his life.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:09:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific (fwd)
My read on the
declining and rednecked years of Jack is that he was very
bitter regarding
the world and system that he figured had dismissed him.
That was an
easier pill for him to swallow than accepting the fact that the
team made up of
himself, Stella, and Gabrielle (his wife and his mother)
dismissed the
rest of the world. Old, tired man who cashed-in in order to
get someone else
to take out the garbage.
However, I don't
feel he was like that "all his life". Her was insecure,
shy, and
distrustful... but the vengeful nature of his attacks against
Ginsberg were
pretty much fueled by his later-years Johnnie Walker (and,
remember, that
2/3 of the above team did not like Ginsberg... Jack bowed to
their wishes).
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:10:20 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Web Fiction/Poetry Reading
Levi,
Best of luck.
Hope it doesn't suck.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:07:09 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Re: Ginsberg question
Thanks for responses
to my Ginsberg/Crane query. I think Hart Crane and I
Ching were
probably both intended, I was just a little too dense to see it on
my own. That's
why I value this list.
Thank you,
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:22:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Kerouac the Athlete
The theme for the
9th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival is "Jack
Kerouac: Athlete
and Scholar" We hope to provide some insight on this very
important part of
his life. He was also a terrific baseball player and
runner on the
track team. The Town and City and Maggie Cassidy both cover
this aspect as
well.
Mark Hemenway
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!
3-6 October 1996
Everyone comes
home in October- OTR
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:03:52 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Leo Jilk
<leo.august.jilk@SPARKY.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
>Subject: William S Burroughs lives
>
>WSB is indeed
still alive. What I would like to know is what he's
>currently up
to, what projects he's working on at present if any. Does
>anyone have
any thoughts on this?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Barry Miles'
recent bio of Burroughs had some interesting points about
>his recent
life (I think it came out in '92ish - it's been awhile since I
>read
it). He was and is selling paintings
which he makes by shooting
>spray paint
cans with guns. Very appropriate I
think.
I heard that Kurt
Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he
died(Cobain that
is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.
--Leo
Jilk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:35:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<v01530500ad4657dffae3@[204.220.40.100]>
In response to
your question about the Kurt Cobain/William Burroughs
disk, I believe
it's called "They called him the priest". It's probably
available at any
large CD chain story or any independant record store.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:38:50 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<v01530500ad4657dffae3@[204.220.40.100]>
> I heard that
Kurt Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he
>
> died(Cobain
that is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.
>
> --Leo
Jilk
Yes, that's
true. It was cut in '92 and released in
'93 I think.
Called: The
"Priest" They Called Him and published byTim Kerr records,
Portland.
Running time: 11
minutes (I think)
Only buy this if
you are a diehard Cobain or WSB fan. It
is a good
story by
Burroughs, but Cobain's feedback version of Silent Night
simply doesn't
complement the reading. That's not to
say it isn't
good, but you can
tell they didn't collaborate. The album
more than
likely resulted
from WSB's new commercial fame as well as Cobain's
Nirvana. This is definately a commerical venture.
My grade: B
Time Warner just
released a audio book for Naked Lunch.
I have it on
order so no opinion yet.
If you really
want a good WSB disc, buy Vaudeville Voices
released by Grey
Matter records in '93. I bought this in
London and have
not seen it in the states. Contains
material from
Call Me Burroughs ('65) and Ali's Smile ('70).
Well worth import
prices.
Although WSB
doesn't call himself a beat (AND HE ISN'T)
I'd be happy to
provide any WSB related commentary here.
I've done quite
extensive research on the man.
/\
/\ /\ /\
| Luke Kelly
/\/
\/ \/\/ __o
/ \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or
/\ / /
\ / \<,_
/ \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu
/ /
..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ |
http://www.kdsi.net
Please don't
drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:43:03 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: daw071@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<v01530500ad4657dffae3@[204.220.40.100]> from "Leo Jilk"
at Feb
13, 96 03:03:52 pm
> I heard that
Kurt Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he
> died(Cobain
that is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.
>
> --Leo
Jilk
>
Yeah, that's right. "The Priest, They Called Him" or
something like that is
what it's
called. I guess that it's just Cobain
producing guitar noises while
Burroughs
reads. Burroughs has also done stuff
with the Disposable Heroes of
Hiphoprisy and
appeared in the Ministry video "Just One Fix."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:17:29 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: William S Burroughs recordings
Ministry released
a single called "just one fix".
"Just one fix" had some
WSB samples on
it. The third track on the single was
WSB spoken word, with
Ministry backing
and is my personal best WSB release.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Gray
Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
CSIRO Division of
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:33:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:44:11 -0500
from
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
On Tue, 13 Feb
1996 10:44:11 -0500 Tony Trigilio said:
>Noah Bergman
writes:
>> I too
had a dream about Ginsberg recently. I
walked across a prairie in
>> a
blizzard to get to this winter resort (on the prairie?!). In the
>> middle
of the parking lot was a row of bookshelves.
I kept looking
>> through
the piles of books on the beat generation there but couldn't find
>> a thing
on Ginsberg. The surly librarian (who
rather reminded me of a
>>
linebacker) kept threatening to pound me into the ground based on my
>> limited
knowledge of Ginsberg. Help me...what
has he done since the
>> sixties?
>
>Noah--
>
>The
*Collected Poems* will take you up to 1980.
I enjoyed *Cosmopolitan
>Greetings*
(1992), his most recent collection. As
one would expect from
>any volume of
poetry, *C. Greetings* has some uneven spots, but as a
>whole it
seems a nice continuation of Ginsberg's adaptation of language
>to breath,
and of his fusion of Eastern and Western consciousness. Last
>year he did a
reading tour for his latest publication of journals,
>*Journals,
Mid-Fifties: 1954-1958*. I saw him read from the book here
>in Boston,
and by my observation he was gracious and energetic. Hope
>this helps.
>
>Best,
>Tony
You should also
read White Shroud, a kind of companion poem to Kaddish.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:38:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Kerouac after 1957
Kerouac wasn't a
saint but I don't think it's fair to call him a "creep
and a
loser." He liked to drink, he
couldn't handle fame, and sometimes
he may have
letdown his friends, but he continued to write and to
publish a number
of good books. He was human like the
rest of us.
Let's not be too
hard on him.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:33:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chanda J Pearmon
<cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status
In-Reply-To: <311FBDF4@sdcwinb.daytonoh.attgis.com>
On Mon, 12 Feb
1996, Ritter, Chris D wrote:
> Kerouac, No;
Ginsberg, Yes, and struggling.
how is Ginsberg
struggling?
/|\ ))_((
/|\
/ | \ (/\|/\)
/ | \
|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|
|-| '^`
(o o) '^` |-|
|-| Morpheus
`\Y/' |-|
|-|
cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|
|-|
http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|
|-| |-|
|-| "Come back, come back, come back |-|
|-| today.
Come back, come back, |-|
|-| come back to stay..." |-|
|-|______________________________________|-|
l
/\ / ( ( \ /\
l
l / V
\ \ V \ l
l/ _) )_ \I
`\ /'
`
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:43:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status
Ginsberg suffers,
I believe, from diabetes. I have friends
who see him
occasionaly and
they tell me he looks very frail. His
schedule at Naropa and
Brooklyn College
(I think he teaches there) has been cut back a great deal.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:52:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: howl for a nameless generation
I think I've come
up with a new version of Howl suitable for a generation
so weak it's name
is the antithesis of a unified lable.
I saw the best minds of my
generati....no i didn't
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:44:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chanda J Pearmon
<cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hello
In-Reply-To: <960212225550_142687148@mail06.mail.aol.com>
On Mon, 12 Feb
1996, Carl Luoma wrote:
> I just
wanted to introduce myself, I am new to
this list. I joined it
> because I
read On the Road and fell in love with the beats. So, here I am.
> not much else to say at this point.
I guess i'll do
the same. I'm new to the list. I started
out with
Ginsberg
journals, which i found fascinating...then moved onto on the
road....then to
jack's letters...absolutely wonderful.
jack is my hero.
I was gonna do an
independent study on him this semester, but couldn'
find a prof to
work with... :)
thass all for
now..
/|\ ))_((
/|\
/ | \ (/\|/\)
/ | \
|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|
|-| '^`
(o o) '^` |-|
|-| Morpheus
`\Y/' |-|
|-|
cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|
|-|
http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|
|-|
|-|
|-| "Come back, come back, come back |-|
|-| today.
Come back, come back, |-|
|-| come back to stay..." |-|
|-|______________________________________|-|
l /\ /
( ( \ /\ l
l / V
\ \ V \ l
l/ _) )_ \I
`\ /'
`
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:19:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: howl for a nameless generation
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.960213215105.131183A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>
Hello fellow beat
lovers. I must admit that i am new to
the beat scene,
but over the last
half of a year ive spent lots of time researching them,
mostly jack and
allen, i visit the music library frequently to listen to
the Kerouac box
set, which is great! It's kerouac
reading excerpts from
his books, poems,
and essays. Sometimes he has jazz
musicians playing in
the
background. If you think Kerouac is
great read wait till you hear him.
I've read 'On the
Road' (my fav. book EVER; Hemingway, Shakespeare, they
all pale in
comparison) "Desolation Angels' (beautifully written but much
more depressing
than OTR), and countless number of his essays.
Ginsberg- Howl, America, and dozens of other of his
poems). Any advice
on what to read
next? I'm thinking 'Naked Lunch,' or
'Dharma Bums.'
This is all for
now.
*****************************************************************************
Matthew Stephen
Sackmann-still bathin' in the sun down here in the Big Easy
"the only
people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad
to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who
never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn
like fabulous
yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the
stars and in the
middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody
goes
'Awww!'"
-from "On the Road"
by Mr. Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 02:25:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's football career
Especially for
information on how his sports "career" ended and he made the
jump into the
literary world, a good reference is the book of his "Letters."
ed. by none other
than Ann Charters, of course. Some of his early
correpondance
deals with this subject specifically.
BTW - it's nice
to see you back again, Critter!
Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:06:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Counting with Cassady
The Arthur & Kit Knight book,
"Beat Angels" has an accounting of Neal
Cassady's death from a friend of his, who
was one of the last people
to see him alive. Good read with presumed
photo of tracks where Neal
fell.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:20:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: howl for a nameless generation (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I think I've come
up with a new version of Howl suitable for a generation
so weak it's name
is the antithesis of a unified lable.
I saw the best minds of my
generati....no i didn't
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are
referring to Generation X in this statement, I feel it my duty
to inform you
that the list decided that, obvious connections aside, this
topic is
inappropriate to this list.
That's all I can
say about it.
Peter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:26:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac after 1957 (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
He liked to drink, he couldn't
handle fame, and sometimes
he may have
letdown his friends, but he continued to write and to
publish a number
of good books. He was human like the
rest of us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm glad you said
this. As I'm sure you all are well
aware, I have a
problem with the
Beats being veiwed as merely folks who led "cool" lives.
No matter how much
of a bigot, anti-semite or asshole Jack was, he wrote
wonderful books
and that's what he wanted to be remembered as.
Much like
Salinger's
decision to exclude himself as a personal figure, Jack wanted
to be a writer
remembered for his work, not his lifestyle.
What do you
think?
Peter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 07:58:26 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Steve Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac after 1957
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96021318413293@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
On Tue, 13 Feb
1996, Bill Gargan wrote:
> Kerouac
wasn't a saint but I don't think it's fair to call him a "creep
> and a
loser." He liked to drink, he
couldn't handle fame, and sometimes
> he may have
letdown his friends, but he continued to write and to
> publish a
number of good books. He was human like the
rest of us.
> Let's not be
too hard on him.
>
You are quite
right and I thank and applaud you for saying so. I was
trying mightily
to get out of the tangle of my anger and sadness caused by
some of those
attack posts so that I could respond appropriately. You've
saved me the
effort. Thanks. Hurrah for Jack.
Best,
SS
Portland State
University
Portland, OR
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:40:02 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: wsb and cobain
burroughs did cut
a single with cobain titled "they call him priest" but
im not sure about
an album. If they did cut an album i'm certain Geffen
would have cashed
in on it at this stage.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:56:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher
<Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re: howl for a nameless generation (fwd)
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I think I've come
up with a new version of Howl suitable for a generation
so weak it's name
is the antithesis of a unified lable.
I saw the best minds of my
generati....no i didn't
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are
referring to Generation X in this statement, I feel it my duty
to inform you
that the list decided that, obvious connections aside, this
topic is
inappropriate to this list.
That's all I can
say about it.
Peter
What other topics
does the beat list consider inappropritate?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:08:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac after 1957
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PTX.3.91.960213161455.11645A-100000@odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Saying that
Kerouac was only human in defense of his less than model
behaviour makes
me think of an interesting point. Maybe
his being just
slightly
"more human" than most of us in his faults allowed him to
capture humanity
more brilliantly in his work.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:07:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: WSB Questions
Hello all:
In an effort to
enlighten myself, I recently began Ted Morgan's
WSB biography,
_Literary Outlaw: The life and times of
WSB_.
For those of you
not familiar with it, I can advise:
Get a copy!! It is superb reading (it practically reads
like
a novel), is
thoroughly researched and is one of the best
biographies I
have ever read (I've read bunches). I
just
can't seem to set
it down.
I am about
halfway through it and have a handful of questions.
To save some
bandwith, let me pose the one I am most interested
in having
aswere: between his Harvard schooling,
and travels (exiles)
in a myriad of
countries, did WSB speak/read/write any language
other than
english?? He intended to study medicine
in Vienna
(and, according
to Morgan, could read "some" German)
and quotes
himself using spanish words throughout _Junky_,
but otherwise
there are no allusions to his foreign
language
abilities.
Bill Jr. makes
fun of his old man's French (I think?) in
_Kentucky Ham_
(if I recall correctly), but I wonder how
substantiated
this may be.
As usual, I would
be thrilled with any answers or pointers.
Trevor Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:19:28 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: the decline of Kerouac
Well I think you
guys (the first two who posted) are painting it pretty black.
In fact I love
Kerouac all the way through, even to his sad alcoholic end.
And there are
those who knew him in Florida and Northport in his later years
who certainly
enjoyed his company. And all through his life people liked Jack
and enjoyed being
around him. Burroughs always looked forward to seeing him,
Ginsberg and
Holmes valued his friendship. Check out *The Kerouac We Knew*
and *Kerouac at
the Wild Boar* edited by John Montgomery for a variety of
views. Also
Holmes' book *Visitor: JK in Old Saybrook* is good. Lots of
differing views
on as complex a character as Kerouac, and no doubt many
negatives as you
guys have pointed out, but I wouldn't have minded hanging
out with the man
at any point in his life.
Cheers,
DB
P.S. Joyce
Johnson's book *Minor Characters* is good on the effect of fame on
Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:14:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSB Questions (language)
In-Reply-To: <01I17H3FDAIQ8WWQ4D@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Wed, 14 Feb
1996, Trevor D. Smith wrote:
> in a myriad
of countries, did WSB speak/read/write any language
> other than
english?? He intended to study medicine
in Vienna
> (and,
according to Morgan, could read "some" German)
> and quotes
himself using spanish words throughout _Junky_,
> but
otherwise there are no allusions to his foreign
> language
abilities.
In Barry Miles'
WSB biography, it is hinted that WSB learned
languages in
order to survive. Makes sense. I've never
heard of any
extensive non-English studies that he has
done. After all, words are the enemy ;)
Dead City Radio
has a track on it called Falling in Love
Again in which
WSB sings (kind of) in German. I get the
impression that
he's drunk but maybe it's a combonation
of poor singing
and German language skills.
I remember
reading a bit in the above mentioned
biography (which
I think puts Literary Outlaw to shame on
theoretical
merit) that WSB learned various dialects of
Arabic for simple
tasks (boys) and I also remember a
quotation from
WSB saying that all one really needs
to know in a
foreign language is how to buy things . . .
but I couldn't
tell you where I read that.
Also, with the
Spanish aspect of language, I would be
willing to bet
that it is WSB's strongest language
other than
English due to time spent near and in Mexico and
classes taken (on
and off) on regional dialects.
Also, it makes
sense to me that Spanish sneaks into
his prose due to
the fact that he bases a good deal
of his material
on the Maya. Not to mention, lots of
Spanish words mix
nicely with English.
Hope that gives a
few basic pointers. And BTW,
if you're
interested yet after "Outlaw", I recomend
Miles' "El
Hombre Invisible: A portrait".
Most of the ideas
here are by recall and may not be 100% accurate.
Regards,
Luke
/\
/\ /\ /\
| Luke Kelly
/\/
\/ \/\/ __o
/ \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or
/\ / /
\ / \<,_
/ \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu
/ /
..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ |
http://www.kdsi.net
Please don't
drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:44:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)
In a message
dated 96-02-13 16:20:01 EST, you write:
> heard that
Kurt Cobain actually cut an album with Burroughs before he
>died(Cobain
that is). Can anyone verify this? If so, I'd like more info.
>
> --Leo
Jilk
Yes, I know he
and kobain did do something together.
but I was told that all
kobain does is
play noise guitar over burroughs reading.
I am not sure what
the album name is
mebbe it was "the priest they call him" I may be wrong
even on that
particular title.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:47:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: William S Burroughs lives (fwd)
In a message
dated 96-02-13 16:52:50 EST, you write:
>Although WSB
doesn't call himself a beat (AND HE ISN'T)
>I'd be happy
to provide any WSB related commentary here.
>I've done
quite extensive research on the man.
>
>
I would love to
learn more about him. I did a report on
him is school as
well so I have
some knowlege on him. I find him a very
interesting man.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:10:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Alan Maddrell <apm5@ABER.AC.UK>
Subject: The Priest They Called Him - WSB
The
"Priest" They Called Him
from Exterminator
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Fight
tuberculosis, folks." Christmas Eve an old junkie selling Christmas
seals on North
Clark Street, the "Priest" they called him. "Fight
tuberculosis,
folks."
People hurried by
grey shadows on a distant wall it was getting late and no
money to score he
truned into a side street and the lake wind hit him like
a knife. Cab
stopped just under a street light boy got out with a suitcase
thin kid in prep
school clothes familiar face the Priest told himself
watching from the
doorway reminds me of something a long time ago the boy
there with his
overcoat unbuttoned reaching into his pants pocket for cab
fare. The cab
drove away and turned the corner. The boy went into the
building hummm
yes maybe; the suitcase was there in the doorway the boy
nowhere in sight
gone to get the keys most likely have to move fast. He
picked up the
suitcase and started for the corner made it glanced down at
the case didn't
look like the case the boy had or any boy would have the
Priest couldn't
put his finger on what was so old about the case, old and
dirty poor
quality leather and heavy better see what's inside he turned
into Lincoln Park
found an empty place and opened the case. Two severed
human legs had
belonged to a young man with dark skin shiny black leg hairs
glittered in the
dim street light. The legs had been forced into the case
and he had to use
his knee on the back of the case to shove then out.
"Legs
yet" he said and walked quickly away with the case might bring a few
dollars to score.
The buyer sniffed
suspiciously. "Kinda funny smell about it . . . is this
Mexican
leather?"
The Priest
shruged.
"Well some
joker didn't cure it." The buyer looked at the case with cold
disfavor.
"Not even right sure he killed it whatever it is three is the
best I can do and
it hurts but since this is Christmas and you're the
Priest" $ $
$ He slipped three notes under the table into the Priest's
dirty hand.
The Priest faded
into the street shadows seedy and furtive three cents
didn't buy a bag
nothing less than a nickel say remember that old auntie
croaker told me
not to come back unless I paid him the three cents I owe
isn't that a
fruit for you to blow his stack about three lousy cents.
The doctor was
not pleased to see him. "Now what do you want ? I told you .
. ." The
Priest laid three bills on the table. The doctor put the money in
his pocket and
started to scream. "I've had trouble ! The people have been
around! I may
lose my license !"
The Priest just
sat there eyes old and heavy with years of junk on the
doctor's face.
"I can't
write you a prescription!" The doctor jerked open a drawer and
slid an ampoule
across the table. "That's all I have in the office !" The
doctor stood up.
"Take it and get out !" he screamed, hysterical. The
Priest's
expression did not change and the doctor added in quieter tones: "
After all I'm a
professional man and I shouldn't be bothered by people like
you."
"Is this all
you have for me? One lousy quarter g? Couldn't you lend me a
nickle?"
"Get out!
Get out! I'll call the police I tell you!"
"All right
doctor. I'm going now."
Christ it was
cold and far to walk rooming house a shabby street room on
the top floor
these stairs/cough/the Priest there pulling himself up along
the banister he
went into the bathroom yellow wood panels toilet dripping
and got his works
from under the washbasin wrapped in brown paper back to
his room get
every drop in the dropper he rolled up his sleeve. The he
heard a groan fom
next door room 18 a Mexican kid lived there the Priest
had passed him on
the stairs and saw the kid was hooked but he never spoke
becasue he didn't
want any juvenile connections bad news in any language
and the Priest
had had enough bad news in his life heard that groan again a
groan he could
feel no mistaking that groan and what it meant maybe an
accident or
something any case I can't enjoy my priestly medications with
that sound coming
through the walls you understand the Priest put down his
dropper cold hall
and knocked on the door of room 18.
" Quien es
?"
"It's the
Priest, kid. I live next door."
He could hear
someone hobbling across the floor a bolt slide and the boy
stood there in
his underwear shorts eyes black with pain. He started to
fall. The Priest
helped him to the bed.
"What's
wrong son?"
"It's my
legs senor ... cramps ... and now I am without medicine."
The Priest could
see the cramps like knots of wood there in the young lean
legs dark shiny
black leg hairs.
"Three years
ago I have damaged myself in a bicycle race it is then that
the cramps start
and ..."
And he has the
leg cramps with compound junk interest. The old Priest stood
there feeling the
boy groan. He inclined his head as if in prayer and went
back and got his
dropper.
"It's just a
quarter g kid."
"I do not
require much senor ." The boy was sleeping when the Priest left
room 18.He went
back to his room and sat down on the bed. Then it hit him
like heavy silent
snow, all the grey junk yesterdays. He sat there and
received the
immaculate fix and since he was himself a priest there was no
need to call him
one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:49:32 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>
Subject: More WSB ascii
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96021419114568@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
"Hemingway"
A selection from
_The_Adding_Machine_Selected_Essays_
by William S
Burroughs
(includes
comments on JK and cross-applicable theory
on other beats)
**********************************************************
" Hemingway "
From _THE_ADDING_MACHINE_Selcted_Essays
by William S. Burroughs
Liberated from the traditional
forest-destroying
"BOOK" on January 10,
1996.
**********************************************************
In writing the old-style novel, there was a
more or less clear-cut
technology and aim. It had a beginning, a middle, and an
end. It
had plot, it had chapters that maintained
suspense, one chapter
ending with a suspense situation which led to
another chapter on
a different character, then back to the
suspense situation, building
to a climax.
The aim was basically to entertain the readers and to
sell books.
Critics still criticize authors for not writing novels of
this sort, even when the novelist is not
attempting to do so. Now
painting and writing are split into schools
and movements. The
technology and aim of one movement may be
quite different from
those of another - if you are doing mobiles,
the silkscreen tech-
nology of Pop Art is of no use.
Now consider some writers who have said
something about the
technology of writing. Other writers may not say anything di-
rectly, but their concept of aim and
technology may be implicit in
the work that is done. I have previously mentioned Graham
Greene; he is frankly horrified at the thought
of formulating a
technology of writing. "Evelyn Waugh was my very good friend,
but we never discussed writing. " This is the English game, of
course; talk about the weather, talk about
anything so long as it
isn't important. Not much help from Mr. Greene - go to Down-
side, become a bad Catholic and talk about the
weather. He
definitely does represent the Gatsby point of
view.
There are some do's and don'ts. The sound of the first sentence
often determines if anyone will read the book
or not. Here's a
really atrocious first sentence: "Herr
[that unpronounceable
name], Hereditary Commander and Chief of the
Fleet of Droco,
Fisher of the Westem Seas, leader in
sacrifice, an oracle of the
stars, spread his wings and brought them
together again in an
astonishing thunderclap. " First of all, he has an incomprehen-
sible if not unpronounceable name, he has too
many titles, and he
already has wings. It's all right if he has wings, but you've
got to
lead up to it.
Now to quote another first sentence, this
time one that makes
it: "Jon Ominar," (easy to
pronounce) "Emperor of the East,"
(only got one
title) "reclined in his garden, watching a man being
prepared for slow
impalement. "
Hemingway has quite a lot to say about
writing. He started
writing of course as a joumalist, which he
considered very valu-
able training.
He says use short words and short sentences, al-
though he doesn't always do this by any means. He uses short
words, but in very long sentences
sometimes. He said to look at
the person or object in front of you and
transcribe what you see.
He also developed a number of exercises, like
describing a scene
from a viewpoint, then removing the viewpoint
and leaving the
description.
It's as if I described everyone in my class from this
viewpoint, then removed myself and just left
the description.
Take out the "1. " What his technology boils down to,
however,
is how to write Hemingway.
The same thing is true of Kerouac and
Wolfe. Kerouac had the
idea that the first draft was always the
best. You should just let
the mind flow and type away, and never change
it. Well, that's
all right for him, but it's not my way of
writing. I told him that.
I revise.
It's how to write Kerouac. And
Wolfe is much the same.
Hemingway has been admired and praised by
critics for things
that he did not do. The Sun Also Rises has been acclaimed as the
definitive statement of the Lost Generation. It wasn't.
There's
more of the 1920s in one page of Fitzgerald
than in the whole of
Hemingway.
That wasn't what Hemingway was doing, and he
can't be criticized for that. He wasn't evoking a period the way
Fitzgerald was.
Hemingway has been described as a master of
dialogue. He
isn't.
No one talks like people talk in Hemingway's novels except
people in Hemingway's novels. John O'Hara, not nearly as good
a writer, is much more a master of dialogue
than Hemingway.
You know when you read John O'Hara that that's
something he
actually heard someone say.
Perhaps it's unfair to say that there's
nothing in Hemingway
except Hemingway, but that's really the way I
feel about it. It's
not exactly a criticism, because that's what
Hemingway was
doing.
Hemingway had such a distinctive style that he was
trapped in it forever. Nevertheless I think Hemingway came
closer to writing himself in present time,
closer to writing his life
and death, than any other writer. Of course Mishima wrote about
hara kiri and then later committed it. A French writer of detective
stories wrote "Then he walked across the
room, opened the
window, and jumped out." After typing
these lines, he walked
across the room, opened the window, and jumped
out. Well,
that's cheating. I mean, Hemingway wrote his death as a char-
acter, not as an actor. The difference being, anybody can write
"And then he shot himself" and then
shoot himself, if he is
prepared to do this. I'm talking about someone who writes
"And
then he was shot" and is himself shot by
someone else. That's
the trick.
All his life Heniingway was plagued by
strange incidents. A
skylight fell on him in Paris, he broke his
toe kicking a gate in,
he gaffed a shark and while shooting it in the
head with his Colt
Woodsman .22, with which he could unerringly
shatter wine
bottles at 100 feet, the gaff broke and he
shot himself in both
legs. A
lady hunter nearly blew his head off with a shotgun.
Several auto accidents; concussion after
concussion. The pica-
dors are at work.
Hemingway could smell death. He suddenly left a chateau
which he said had the stink of death about it,
and after he left, the
chateau was bombed and several people killed. And he could
smell death on others. I have already related incidents.
Hemingway wrote himself as a
character. He wrote his life and
death so closely that he had to be stopped
before he found out
what he was doing and wrote about that. There is the moment
when the bull looks speculatively from the
cape to the matador.
The bull is leaming. The matador must kill him quick. Two plane
crashes in a row, both near Kilimanjaro. The matador has to
smash his head against the window of a buming
plane. Otherwise
he would have found out why two planes crashed
near Kiliman-
jaro; he wrote it. He wrote it in The Snows of Kilimanjaro,
where
Death is the pilot. "He was pointing now, white white white
as
far as the eye can see ahead, the snows of
Kilimanjaro." That's
the last line.
He who writes death as the pilot of a
small plane in Africa
should beware of small planes in Africa,
especially in the vicinity
of Kilimanjaro. But it was written, and he stepped right into
his
own writing.
The brain damage he sustained butting his way out
of the buming plane led to a hopeless
depression and eventually
to his suicide. He put both barrels of a 12-gauge shotgun,
no. 6
heavy duck load, against his forehead and
tripped both triggers.
Fix yourself on that: "White white white
as far as the eye can see
ahead . . . the snows of Kilimanjaro."
And unlike the French detective writer,
Hemingway wasn't
cheating by the act of suicide. He was dead already.
Now suppose you had all the works of a
particular writer and
could only take some with you, which would be
the first you'd
throw away?
I would get rid of No Man Is an Island, For Whom
the Bell Tolls, Across the River and into the
Trees, The Green
Hills of Africa, and Death in the
Afternoon. In Across the River
etc. he was writing himself close, but it was
not good - not good
at all.
It is just about the worst of Hemingway's books.
But I would certainly keep The Snows of
Kilimanjaro, which
remains one of the greatest stories about
death ever written, be-
cause he wrote his own death in that
story. Perhaps he was too
much of an egoist to write anything else.
Hemingway talks about looking at what is
in front of you.
Well, a young man who wanted to leam how to
write went
fishing with Papa Hemingway and asked him
about writing. Papa
replied, "Try to figure out why I cussed
you out ten minutes ago
and how the sun looked on the side of that
marlin I just caught. "
But between Hemingway's eyes and the object
falls the shadow
of Hemingway.
Korzybski says the creative process takes
place when you look
at an object or a process in silence. And this I think is especially
true of dialogue. If you can look at a character without
talking,
from inner silence, then your character will
talk, and you get
realistic dialogue. Take something that you actually heard some-
one say, then let him say that and took at
him; pretty soon he'll
say some more in the same lines. I remember this amazing used
car salesman, from Houston. He was the one who told me "You
know all a Jew wants to do is doodle a
Christian girl, you know
that yourself." Well, I didn't say
anything, but if I sat him down
right here, he could say a lot more along the
same lines, I'm sure.
But Hemingway didn't give his characters a
chance to talk. He
always talked for them, and they all talk
Hemingway. Take The
Killers; it reads well, a good story, and very
carefully assembled.
The dialogue sounds good, but how good is
it? Here are the two
killers waiting around for the Swede, gassing
meantime with the
counterman in this diner.
"What do they do in this town?"
"They eat the dinner. They all come here and eat the big
dinner.
"
"That's right" says the
counterman.
"He says that's right."
And then they're leaving, they're deciding
whether they're
going to kill the
counterman or not.
"What about sonny boy?"
"He's all right."
"You've got a lot of luck. You should play the races."
Of course, these last lines are purely
Hemingway. And some-
one, maybe the
counterman, says about the Swede: "He's cow-
ering in his
room." Also:
"I can't bear to think of him just
laying there, knowing
he's going to get it."
"Well you'd better not think of it
then."
It's stylized. The killers never really get off the page,
you can't
really see
them. They don't come across with any
real menace to
the reader.
*********************************************
Brought to you by
Brave Souls Anonymous.
Lincoln, Nebraska
/\
/\ /\ /\
| Luke Kelly
/\/
\/ \/\/ __o
/ \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or
/\ / /
\ / \<,_
/ \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu
/ /
..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ |
http://www.kdsi.net
Please don't
drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 22:05:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Pelton <Notlep@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jack'sfootballcareer
JackhimselftalksitinVisionsofDulouzanotgreatbook
onthewholebutwithsomegreatmoments.Sorry--thisisn'tintendedasartistry,there'sso
methingwrongwithmykeyboard.Butthenincorporatingaccidentisthematictothelist,no?
TedPelton
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:32:09 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Burroughs-Priest
In tune with all
the priest stuff -
Wasn't Bill's
character in _Drugstore Cowboy_ a junkie priest?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:29:20 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Burroughs-Priest (fwd)
In tune with all
the priest stuff -
Wasn't Bill's
character in _Drugstore Cowboy_ a junkie priest?
Yes that's right,
and a fine job Bill does of it too. Check out the
Junkie's
Christmas from the Interzone collection, this is a similar
storyline to that
of Priest.
Anyone catch
Bill's appearance in Van Sant's Even Cowgirls Get the Blues,
or the aids
awareness movie 'And the Band Played On', both fairly recent
films.........
How ya doin'
Alan.....
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:37:06 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: WSB Naked Lunch
I have seen for
sale an audio version of Naked Lunch 2XCD. Now can anyone
tell me more
about this, I understand it's a new release. Is it read by
Bill, is it a
recent recording, does anyone have this yet? Also, I
Believe, Call Me
Burroughs is now available on CD, does anyone have a
track listing of
this recording, I know that it was recorded in the
sixities,
possibly in Paris by Sommerville?
All replies most
appreciated.
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:42:17 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: WSB Roswell Opera
Anyone heard more
details about the project Bill was involved with
concerning the
Roswell 47 UFO crash? Apparently, according to Miles biog
it was to be an
opera. I know that Bill was involved with the Black Rider
project with, I
think, the same people who were working on this Roswell
opera......There
is mentioned in Miles a lot of stuff that Bill was
working on around
91/92 what ever became of this?
Does anyone know
if WSB Communications has an email address?
Daniel (again!)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:37:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: junkie priest
yes he was.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:53:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack'sfootballcareer
In-Reply-To: <960214220501_422961252@emout10.mail.aol.com>
from "Ted Pelton"
at Feb 14, 96 10:05:04 pm
>
> Jack himself
talks it in Visions of Dulouz a not great book
> on the whole
but with some great moments. Sorry--this isn't intended as
> artistry,
there's something wrong with my keyboard.
> But then
incorporating accident is thematic to the list, no?
> TedPelton
>
*smile*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:39:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: jk recordings
I've heard that
Kerouac made recordings of himself reading prose and poetry
(well i know he
did from Visions of Cody). Is it possible to buy these or are
they available. I
have a recent song where Jk's reading is backed by hip-hop
/jazz music dunno
who dunnit though. Anybody with info on these?....v.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:44:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
In-Reply-To: <01I18USEMOLUDVFREF@dit.ie> from
"col. it's steve" at Feb 15,
96 02:39:23 pm
>
> I've heard
that Kerouac made recordings of himself reading prose and poetry
> (well i know
he did from Visions of Cody). Is it possible to buy these or are
> they
available. I have a recent song where Jk's reading is backed by hip-hop
> /jazz music
dunno who dunnit though. Anybody with info on these?....v.
there's box
set....called "the beat generation"
check out a good
music store....i've seen it everywhere.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:47:54 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: wsb and black rider
the black rider
is an album by tom waits and burroughs appears on a couple of
tracks, they're
very good.If waits is doing the roswell opera it should prove
interesting.Waits'
earlier work is influenced by the beats and well worth
checking out esp.
closing time, the heart of saturday night and blue valentine.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:55:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Louis N Proyect
<lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
In-Reply-To: <01I18USEMOLUDVFREF@dit.ie>
Odd, more than
50% of the messages I see here refer to CDs, television
shows, poetry
readings or movies. Much of the discussion revolves around
trivia such as
Kerouac's football credentials. But the Beats were highly
literate and
intellectual, weren't they?
Most of what
Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs were doing when they got
together, besides
getting fucked up on drugs, was discussing books and
ideas. Kerouac
had a really deep knowledge of literature, religion and
philosophy.
Basically, he was a book-worm.
Are you young
folks averse to books? Are they considered un-hip? What gives?
Louis Proyect
On Thu, 15 Feb 1996,
col. it's steve wrote:
> I've heard
that Kerouac made recordings of himself reading prose and poetry
> (well i know
he did from Visions of Cody). Is it possible to buy these or are
> they
available. I have a recent song where Jk's reading is backed by hip-hop
> /jazz music
dunno who dunnit though. Anybody with info on these?....v.
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:32:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: can you remember your birth on earth?
>Salinger's
decision to exclude himself as a personal figure, Jack wanted
>to be a
writer remembered for his work, not his lifestyle.
>What do you
think?
>Peter
well.
his life was as
an observer (reader?) *and* writer, his friends were mostly
writer's, &
the majority (& best) of his work a narration of his life as he saw
it.
in understanding
his writing you must understand his lifestyle - both were
catalysts. would he have written like he did, had he
stayed in lowell? would
he have lived as
he did, had he not known he were a writer?
i think he must
be remembered for both, good & bad aspects, everything & all.
if jack *really*
wanted to be remembered purely for his writing then he
shouldn't
have written so
much about his own personal life. there
are many writers who
will be remembered
for their literary aspirations that didn't write about their
own personal
lives or lifestyles.
yes? no? maybe?
>Saying that
Kerouac was only human in defense of his less than model
>behaviour
makes me think of an interesting point.
Maybe his being just
>slightly
"more human" than most of us in his faults allowed him to
>capture
humanity more brilliantly in his work.
>Noah Bergman
exactly.
q.1. neal cassady
was born in salt lake city, utah. i'm
going there early
march. are there any places worth visiting in
respect to neal?
q.2. has anyone
got the poem, or know the book that holds the poem titled
'the man and the
piano' by charles bukowski.
joe
ps. wsb spoke
only one language. burroughs!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:21:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.960215095040.23531D-100000@ciao.cc.columbia.edu>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996, Louis N Proyect wrote:
>
> Most of what
Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs were doing when they got
> together,
besides getting fucked up on drugs, was discussing books and
> ideas.
Kerouac had a really deep knowledge of literature, religion and
> philosophy.
Basically, he was a book-worm.
>
> Are you
young folks averse to books? Are they considered un-hip? What gives?
>
> Louis
Proyect
>
I just wanted to
clarify something. What are the limits
to discussion on
this list? I made an offhand comment about my own
generation and was
chastised for
it. It seems to me that in keeping with
the beat spirit,
discussions on
just about anything should go. I agree
that in keeping
with the nature
of the list they should pertain to the beat generation in
some way, but
c'mon now. If there are further limits
to what can and
can't be discussed
on this list I would appreciate someone telling me.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:27:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.960215095040.23531D-100000@ciao.cc.columbia.edu>
from "Louis N Proyect"
at Feb 15, 96 09:55:56 am
i have to say
that listening to kerouac recite "a scene from san
francisco"
gave me an entirely new perspective on the man.....
i disagree with a
comment made by someone not too long
ago...forgive my
poor memory...about kerouac becoming a bitter in his
later
works.......he is painfully...if not brutally honest with himself
about his life
and his drinking......i see no bitterness in "big
sur".....granted,
i have yet to finish....and it is pure coincedence that
i picked up this
book the after reading
carolyn cassady's
"off the road" but for a man consumed with
alcohol...his
recollections are vivid and detailed...energetic and
profound....
> Odd, more
than 50% of the messages I see here refer to CDs, television
> shows,
poetry readings or movies. Much of the discussion revolves around
> trivia such
as Kerouac's football credentials. But the Beats were highly
> literate and
intellectual, weren't they?
the life force
that was kerouac and cassady and ginsberg was reflected in
all that they
did....every moment of awareness.....every action and
sensation.....every
movement and non-movement.....they LIVED....they did
not sit in
institutions discussing intellectual theories ad-nauseum..
> Most of what
Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs were doing when they got
> together,
besides getting fucked up on drugs, was discussing books and
> ideas.
Kerouac had a really deep knowledge of literature, religion and
> philosophy.
Basically, he was a book-worm.
getting fucked up
is entirely your perception.....
they discussed
how the books and ideas were relevant to LIFE......
how they could
perceive LIFE in another way using this knowledge as a
catalyst.....
> Are you
young folks averse to books? Are they considered un-hip? What gives?
can't answer for
all "young folks"
but've met many a'folk in general who would rather
be anesthetized
than
revolutionized.........
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:27:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: movers and shakers
I might be
playing the devil's advocate here, but I just wanted to
propose a though
that entered my head recently. Please
don't just send
back nasty
attacks without thinking about its content please.
Now, I don't know
if I even agree with this, but... was Kerouac really a
very interesting
person? His writing skills were amazing
and his depth
of thought on a
lot of subject was very deep, but just think about
something. Most of his books were about past adventures
with a main
character other
than himself. It seems that when he was
by himself
without a Neal
Cassidy or Gary Snyder to push him along he resorted to
drinking to pass
the time. Don't take this as an attack
on Kerouac, he's
one of my
heroes. I just think that you have to at
least take a glance
at both sides of
your heroes too.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:55:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Louis N Proyect
<lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.960215111746.106533A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996, Noah Bergman wrote:
> I just
wanted to clarify something. What are
the limits to discussion on
> this
list? I made an offhand comment about my
own generation and was
> chastised
for it. It seems to me that in keeping
with the beat spirit,
> discussions
on just about anything should go. I
agree that in keeping
> with the
nature of the list they should pertain to the beat generation in
> some way,
but c'mon now. If there are further
limits to what can and
> can't be
discussed on this list I would appreciate someone telling me.
>
Don't be so
thin-skinned, Noah. I am just trying to understand your
g-g-g-generation,
as the Who song puts it. I rather like being in touch
with the MTV
generation.
I'm 51 myself and
hung out with some of the original beats when I was a
16 year old freshman
at Bard College in 1961. People like Robert Kelly,
for example.
I work at
Columbia University literally a block away from Kerouac's old
apartment. I see
hundreds of undergrads all about me each day making a
million
"style" statements to underline their bohemianism: nose-rings, green
hair, tattoos,
etc.
I don't
understand this. Back in the 1950s, rebellion was measured more
in terms of what
was inside people's minds. Burroughs himself was a very
conservative
dresser. Kerouac simply emulated the style of blue-collar
workers, since
that was mainly what he did.
What is the
fascination with style? What is the fascination with
rock-and-roll,
MTV, poetry readings that seem to be set up for a Gap
commercial? I
simply don't understand the bohemian culture of today. It
seems to owe a
superficial allegiance to beat culture of the 1950s, but
doesn't seem to
be anywhere as intellectual or literary.
So, sorry to
appear rude, censorious or insensitive. I am simply putting
questions forward
in my own blunt style.
Louis Proyect
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 11:43:46 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: gabby <raindog@IQUEST.NET>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
Louis wrote:
>
>I work at
Columbia University literally a block away from Kerouac's old
>apartment. I
see hundreds of undergrads all about me each day making a
>million
"style" statements to underline their bohemianism: nose-rings, green
>hair,
tattoos, etc.
>
>I don't
understand this. Back in the 1950s, rebellion was measured more
>in terms of
what was inside people's minds. Burroughs himself was a very
>conservative
dresser. Kerouac simply emulated the style of blue-collar
>workers,
since that was mainly what he did.
>
>What is the
fascination with style? What is the fascination with
>rock-and-roll,
MTV, poetry readings that seem to be set up for a Gap
>commercial? I
simply don't understand the bohemian culture of today. It
>seems to owe
a superficial allegiance to beat culture of the 1950s, but
>doesn't seem
to be anywhere as intellectual or literary.
Louis,
I wish there was an easy way to
answer your question -
because you make
really good points (style over substance as a statment) -
but I worry that
what I *think* I understand as a member of the Mtv
generation (I'm
23) won't be translatable to other gens.
There is a lot of
strength to the
idea that "you had to be there", in order to get certain
things -
obviously, I'll never have but an inkling of the true nature of
Beat, as I've
gotten it 2nd hand (except for attending a wonderful Allen
Ginsberg reading
at my college).
as someone who spent
adolescence draping herself in
'alternative'
clothing so that people could tell what 'tribe' i belonged to,
i can honestly
say that style & appearance are the modes of communication
that I (and, I
believe, my generation) were brought up on - to express
ourselves in
non-verbal and non-written ways - it was the fastest and
easiest way to
assess the character and interests of the people we find
ourselves
surrounded by. I also think that
appearance seems more immediate
- if you see a
person with magenta hair, a celtic knot tatoo and a couple of
interesting
piercings - you can assume much about that person - all of which
are totally
shallow, of course.
The beats were more on the
money in that they talked and
talked and
listened and read in order to express themselves and find
allegiances. I think the culture and time in which they
found themselves -
repressive,
conformist '50's - valued substance - so the beats were smart
enough to seize
that knowledge and use it as a weapon against the society
they felt stifled
them. Today, we are an image literate
society - ('words
are meaningless
and forgetable' - if I may quote Depeche Mode) - hell bent
on NOW NOW NOW -
you've got pitch your product in under a minute - you've
got to capture
the hearts and minds of your audience before they change the
channel - you've
got to be flashy.
so - yes, Louis, I agree with
you - but I would say that
just because the
surface is glittery and flashy doesn't mean that there
isn't some
depth. Means of expression have mutated
- we need new ways of
reading one
another.
my $1.32 for the day.
gabby
============================================================================
"We now have
a new rule on the bus: passengers will refrain from KILLING MY
SOUL!
Thank you."
-Bus Driver
Stu Benedict
The
Adventures of Pete and Pete
============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:43:52 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: roswell opera
bill appears on
the Black Rider album with Tom Waits.I don't know about the
roswell thing
though. Its worth checking out other Tom Waits material though
as he took alot
of inspiration from the beats, especially on his earlier albums
like closing
Time,Heart of Saturday Night,Blue Valentine.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:38:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chanda J Pearmon
<cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific
In-Reply-To:
<199602131544.KAA30784@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
On Tue, 13 Feb
1996, Tony Trigilio wrote:
> *Journals,
Mid-Fifties: 1954-1958*. I saw him read from the book here
> in Boston,
and by my observation he was gracious and energetic. Hope
wow, can you
expand any on the reading? Journals,
mid-fifties... is what
first got me into
the beat culture
/|\ ))_((
/|\
/ | \ (/\|/\)
/ | \
|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|
|-| '^`
(o o) '^` |-|
|-| Morpheus
`\Y/' |-|
|-|
cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|
|-|
http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|
|-| |-|
|-| "Come back, come back, come back |-|
|-| today.
Come back, come back, |-|
|-| come back to stay..." |-|
|-|______________________________________|-|
l /\ /
( ( \ /\ l
l / V
\ \ V \ l
l/ _) )_ \I
`\ /'
`
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:41:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Books
How many people
out there have read any books by the Beats besides On the
Road or Naked
Lunch?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:42:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: can you remember your birth on earth?
(fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: can you remember your birth on earth?
if jack *really*
wanted to be remembered purely for his writing then he
shouldn't
have written so
much about his own personal life. there
are many writers who
will be
remembered for their literary aspirations that didn't write about their
own personal
lifestyles
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The literature
teacher in me requires me to point out the fallacy of
being to quick to
associate the author and the speaker of the text.
Although Jack and
say Sal Paradise had much in common, they had much in
difference as
well. Many writers in the Post Modern
era choose to
utilize their
life experience, but that does not mean that the works
are intended to
be nor should they be read as autobiography.
I think you hit
the nail on the head by differentiating between lifestyle
and life. Jack was at times after the style, not his
biography.
Too many people
still look at the Beats as people who lived "cool"
lifestyles and
ignore their writing. They were writers
and wanted to
be writers before
all else. Maybe my phobia of their lack
of acceptance
in academia leads
to conclusions, but I am at UConn studing with Ann
Chaters, and even
here I cannot do serious research on the Beats.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:02:23 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
>I've heard
that Kerouac made recordings of himself reading prose and poetry
>(well i know
he did from Visions of Cody). Is it possible to buy these or are
>they
available. I have a recent song where Jk's reading is backed by hip-hop
>/jazz music
dunno who dunnit though. Anybody with info on these?....v.
Yes. Three recrdings of Kerouac were released in
the fifties/early
sixties. These have been re-released by Rhino Records
as a box set. They
also have included
some outtakes.
I have some of
these sounds at
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
My site also has
a link to another site that has some longer audio files
(all these are
.au files) from SF Blues and MC blues.
Tell us more
about the hip-hop/jazzed backed kerouac you mention above. Is
iyt new? If it is old I would suggest it may be Blues
and Haikus (which is
part of the Rhino
set).
And concerning
what kerouac and the others talked about--read kerouac's
books, especially
Visions of Cody's third section: Frisco: The Tape.
Keouac bought a
tape recorder (not common in 1951/2) specifically to tape
their
"great" converstions. This
portion of Visions of Cody is ostensibly
a direct
transcript of various tape recording
sessions at the Cassady's
house.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:51:15 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Mcgahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Louis N Proyect <lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
I work at
Columbia University literally a block away from Kerouac's old
apartment. I see
hundreds of undergrads all about me each day making a
million
"style" statements to underline their bohemianism: nose-rings, green
hair, tattoos,
etc.
I simply don't understand the
bohemian culture of today. It
seems to owe a
superficial allegiance to beat culture of the 1950s, but
doesn't seem to
be anywhere as intellectual or literary.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simply living in
the East Village does not make you a bohemian.
What
many folks look
at as bohemian (nose rings, tattoos etc) is not. Hint:
if a frat boy
does it, it ain't hip.
Anyway, my
response to this is that these kids are no more true bohemians
than the Beatniks
that posed for Life magazine spreads thirty-five years
were Beats.
Find yourself
some real bohemians and they are just as intellectual as the
best of the 50's
and 60's. I'd wager to say that the intellectuals
of
today are much
more aware than their predecessors, they have to be.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:06:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Christopher Teggatz
<Teggatz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
Two years ago I
was in Tangier, staying at the Tanger Inn room 9 (where NAKED
LUNCH was
written). I asked the hotel owner, an old Englishman named John
Sutcliffe, if he
heard from any of the Beats any more.
"Yes, he
said, Burroughs stayed here two weeks ago. "
I could have
cried, I was so close. Of course, Sutcliffe claimed it was no
loss--"All
those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it.
Christopher
Miezio-Teggatz
Marquette
University
Teggatz@AOL.COM
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:10:00 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: jk recordings
the hiphop/jazz
track i have is new (its about ayear or two old) unfortunately
i haven't aclue
who its by or where its from.i got it form a friend who got it
from the radio. I've nearly finished Visions
of Cody and find its structue
reallyinteresting but a bit disjointed.The
tape section is great + shud be
released.v
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:11:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Re: Books
In-Reply-To:
<960215.124142.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
I just wanted to
ask if anybody else feels Dharma Bums rivals On the Road
for quality. It may have just been the state of mind I was
in when I
read it, but I
found Dharma Bums to be much more clearly written. I
think in On the
Road Kerouac was still rough in his transitions from
traditional to
spontaneous prose. Dharma Bums is much
more smooth in
terms of how it
is more difficult to diffuse the spontaneous from the
pre-thought.
Also, I'd like to
start a discussion on Gary Snyder. What
would people
in the know
recommend of his. I've read some of his
work and find it
exquisite
(something in "Civilization" speaks to me).
-------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Noah Bergman
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
Box 730 St. FXU
Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
B2G 2X1
(902) 867-2517
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:12:39 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: reading
yes i have read
more than otr and naked lunch,quite alot more in fact.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:23:22 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: the list
i thought this
was a forum for discusion on any aspects of the beats.Just
because people
are interested in tapes and movies doesn't mean they haven't
read the books in
fact it means they probably have read them and want MORE.
ok we're a
younger generation but we're also hungry for stuff we love on any
format
available.new technology can make obscure material more accessable and
thats a good
thing in my eyes. i think hunger for more is a sign of love ..v.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:30:04 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: fucked up on rugs
i don't think the
beats got fucked up (ok there's always casualties) on drugs
they used them to
get high, to change perception to just go,go,go.i'm a college
student and i do
it and still get good grades. drugs are a social thing, a
leisure thing and
sometimes a spiritual thing. its when they become a lifestyle
that they become
a problem -"fucked up"- thing. The beat lifestyle wasn't
centred on drugs
they were just a part of how they had a good time. I don't
think its fair to
say they got fucked up (not all of them anyway)....v.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:34:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Colleen Krawczyk
<colleen@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: books...
I've read other
beat lit. besides OTR and Naked Lunch...
Ginsberg's Howl
sparked my interest in beat lit., along with a few other
poems by
him...then, of course, I read OTR and enjoyed it so I also read
The Subterraneans
and started Visions of Cody...I can't wait to spend more
time reading this
summer (I'm just finishing my bachelor's this May, so
I spend most of
my time now reading text books).
Colleen
Marquette
University
colleen@execpc.com
krawczyk@mscs.mu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:08:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Books
I found
"Desolation Angels" to be the perfect companion to both On The Road
and the Dharma
Bums. Actually, DA and "Visions Of Cody" almost serve as a
concordance to
the rest of Jack's non-Lowell books. I think that John
Clellon Holmes at
one point mentioned that he thought some of the original
manuscript of
"On The Road" eventually found its way into both Desolation
Angels and
Visions Of Cody... which isn't too hard to imagine, as the
writing in the
both of the subsequent works is much more alive and
energetic... the
style much more inventive than can be found in his
potboilers.
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:06:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Louis N Proyect
<lnp3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: the list
Comments: To:
"col. it's steve" <VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
In-Reply-To: <01I192KBLBO2DVFT91@dit.ie>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996, col. it's steve wrote:
> i thought
this was a forum for discusion on any aspects of the beats.Just
> because
people are interested in tapes and movies doesn't mean they haven't
> read the
books in fact it means they probably have read them and want MORE.
> ok we're a
younger generation but we're also hungry for stuff we love on any
> format
available.new technology can make obscure material more accessable and
> thats a good
thing in my eyes. i think hunger for more is a sign of love ..v.
>
Will all of you
stop being so fucking sensitive. No, don't go away just
because an old
buzzard like myself badmouths Gap commercials. What would
you make of
Kerouac himself? He was as rude and obnoxious to his "fans"
as can be imagined.
This is a forum for everybody interested in the
beats. I'm just
throwin' my two cents in...
Louis Proyect
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:41:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Books, poems, etc...
I've found it
interesting to read Kerouac, particularly "Dharma Bums" and "On
The Road"
out loud. The prose has a definite jazz
quality, sort of like the
heart doing a
saxophone cadenza. I've had the
impression that the period of
"Dharma
Bums" could very well have been the happiest time for Kerouac. He and
Snyder lived in
the mountains with no communication with the outside world,
(and no booze for
that matter) both of them alone with pen and paper, totally
in their element.
I have read and
re-read Ginsberg's "Plutonian Ode" and, again, reading it out
loud, and maybe
playing Peter Gabriel's "Passion" in the background, brings it
to life. It's a poem that transcends nuclear protest
to a work of
epic/mythological
proportions.
One of my
favorite Beat poems has got to be Gregory Corso's "Marriage." He
was here in
Louisville, KY in '93 and he read that one.
I think a
friend of mine
recorded it on video.
I saw Jim Carroll
recently in Lexington and, even though he is not classed with
the original
Beats, his books, particularly "Basketball Diaries" and "Forced
Entries"
have that same immediancy of the moment.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:57:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Re: Books
At 02:08 PM
2/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I found
"Desolation Angels" to be the perfect companion to both On The Road
>and the
Dharma Bums. Actually, DA and "Visions Of Cody" almost serve as a
>concordance
to the rest of Jack's non-Lowell books. I think that John
>Clellon
Holmes at one point mentioned that he thought some of the original
>manuscript of
"On The Road" eventually found its way into both Desolation
>Angels and
Visions Of Cody... which isn't too hard to imagine, as the
>writing in
the both of the subsequent works is much more alive and
>energetic...
the style much more inventive than can be found in his
>potboilers.
>Jim
>
Not to take away
from DA and VOC, but OTR ain`t no potboiler. It`s got long
stretches of
achingly beautiful, lyrical writing, and is a complex novel to
boot, operating
as it does on 6 levels or so, being: a comprehensive
critique (but
almost unconsciously so) of 50`s conformist culture; an
investigation of
interesting subcultures (eg., the Terry scenes, or "Denver
colored
section" reveries); an acute study of family dysfunction (i.e., the
early life of
Dean); a depiction of irrepressible American manhood and
optimism (i.e.,
the adult Dean`s adventures); a high-grade travelogue( eg.,
the Mexico
scenes); and, not least, a spiritual quest (" I even thought of
old Dean
Moriarty, the father we never found..."). OTR is a potboiler only
in the sense that
some of its less lyrical prose recalls the telling of a
laconic detective
tale - Jack later wrote that these parts sought to emulate
the style of Dashiell Hammett. OTR is, IMHO, the greatest
novel to appear
in America since
1945. This is true, and will remain true, whether or not
Harold Bloom puts
Kerouac in his Western Canon.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:27:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chanda J Pearmon
<cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960215104734.16052B-100000@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996, Louis N Proyect wrote:
> commercial?
I simply don't understand the bohemian culture of today. It
> seems to owe
a superficial allegiance to beat culture of the 1950s, but
> doesn't seem
to be anywhere as intellectual or literary.
>
> So, sorry to
appear rude, censorious or insensitive. I am simply putting
> questions
forward in my own blunt style.
>
And in a widely
generalizng style! As a youth of 20, I dress quite
"normally."
I love to immulate the beats, and thrive in discussing
literature with
my friends. I also write poetry and
fiction, and love to
share it with
others, and in turn, read others' works.
I discuss
philosophy,politics,
and music with my circle of friends. I
think there
is a large group
of "youngsters" out here who love to be "intellectual
and
literary"
I think each
generation has their "literates" then those who only care
for the trends of
the time.
/|\ ))_((
/|\
/ | \ (/\|/\)
/ | \
|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|
|-| '^`
(o o) '^` |-|
|-| Morpheus
`\Y/' |-|
|-| cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|
|-|
http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|
|-| |-|
|-| "Come back, come back, come back |-|
|-| today.
Come back, come back, |-|
|-| come back to stay..." |-|
|-|______________________________________|-|
l /\ /
( ( \ /\ l
l / V
\ \ V
\ l
l/ _) )_ \I
`\ /'
`
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:27:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: "Potboiler"
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@INTERBIT.CREN.NET
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996
14:57:47 EST
Jack was the one
who referred to his "hit" books as potboilers... in
conversation with
John Montgomery. I know that he was somewhat
dissatisfied with
the editorial work that altered his manuscript of "On
The Road",
and maybe that was the basis for his attitude regarding the
book.
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:35:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Books
Comments: To:
Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
Kerouac
considered Dharma Bums a "potboiler", written to capitalize
on the success of
OTR. I don't think he meant to dismiss the book by
saying this, but
it's put in a place outside of books written for
love like VISIONS
(all of them) or SUBTERRANEANS.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:36:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andra <asg5@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Books, poems, etc...
Paul McDonald -
Bon Air Branch <PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US> wrote:
>One of my
favorite Beat poems has got to be Gregory Corso's "Marriage." He
>was here in
Louisville, KY in '93 and he read that one.
I think a
>friend of
mine recorded it on video.
"Marriage"
is definately one of my favorites, too.
I also loved Ginsberg's
"America"
and his rather compact "On Burroughs' Work."
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
An it's yer life
Do it - don talk
it - Andra Greenberg
Forget about the
talkers - Duke University
They'll always be
around
asg5@acpub.duke.edu
You won't ......
--Bob Dylan--
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:16:32 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Potboiler"
>Jack was the
one who referred to his "hit" books as potboilers... in
>conversation
with John Montgomery. I know that he was somewhat
>dissatisfied
with the editorial work that altered his manuscript of "On
>The Road",
and maybe that was the basis for his attitude regarding the
>book.
>Jim
Actually he
referred to Dharma Bums as a potboiler.
Visions of Cody he
thought of as his
masterpiece. He wrote Dharma Bums at the instigation of
his publishers
after the success of On The Road. The
publishers wanted
another book of
similar meddle. Dr. Sax was a little too
trippy for them
and it was about
a little kid and his inner life fantasies not "wild
orgies" or
whatever. This is not to imply that
Dharma Bums is a bad book
in any way. It is not the artistic statement of VoC, Dr.
Sax or On the
Road though.
In terms of his
Buddhist studies I think Visions of Gerard is more a
complete
statement of his learning as applied to his philosophy and
artistic endeavors. This book mixes buddhism and catholicism
throughout.
In Tom Clark's
biography of kerouac it is written that the catholic parts
of Dharma Bums
were edited out. That's all the info it provides there
though. It would be nice to know more about the lost
passages of the
Dharma Bums. Of course one "catholic" part that
was left in is the very
first part of the
book where he meets his first dharma bum--the tramp on
the train with a
catholic saint icon. (Which saint was
it?) Catholicism
wasn't hip and
far out enough for the target audience I guess.
Tristessa
also is a good
unexpurgated reflection of his buddhism and catholicism as
is Mexico City
Blues. Dharma Bums, though ostensibly
about buddhist
americans and
buddhism may be the least full document of kerouac concerning
his buddhist
studies.
Dharma Bums and
On the Road were subject to a fair amount of editing by the
major label
publisher. His later published books,
Dr. Sax, Tristessa,
Subterraneans,
Mexico City Blues et al were published as is.
He was able
to recieve that
amount of artistic control. To do this
though he was
published by
smaller presses, eg Grove Press and a paperback "exploitation"
press for
Tristessa.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:21:39 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Books
>Kerouac
considered Dharma Bums a "potboiler", written to capitalize
>on the
success of OTR. I don't think he meant to dismiss the book by
>saying this,
but it's put in a place outside of books written for
>love like VISIONS
(all of them) or SUBTERRANEANS.
Yes. That is one of the reasons I think kerouac's
books are lasting as
great
literature. He truely wrote them for
love. He was a published
writer who
garnered good reviews for his first book (though it didn't sell
well). he presented his second book and it was
turned down. He wrote more
books and they
were turned down. He could have changed
his style or gone
along with
publisher's requests (eg they would have published Dr. Sax as a
childhood memoir
if he took out the fantasy parts). But
he didn't.
Eventually he got
to the point where he didn't even know if his books would
be published but
he wrote them anyhow. That's literature as opposed to
fiction.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:20:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:21:50 -0500
from
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996 10:21:50 -0500 Noah Bergman said:
>On Thu, 15
Feb 1996, Louis N Proyect wrote:
>>
>> Most of
what Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs were doing when they got
>>
together, besides getting fucked up on drugs, was discussing books and
>> ideas.
Kerouac had a really deep knowledge of literature, religion and
>>
philosophy. Basically, he was a book-worm.
>>
>> Are you
young folks averse to books? Are they considered un-hip? What gives?
>>
>> Louis
Proyect
>>
>I just wanted
to clarify something. What are the
limits to discussion on
>this
list? I made an offhand comment about my
own generation and was
>chastised for
it. It seems to me that in keeping with
the beat spirit,
>discussions
on just about anything should go. I
agree that in keeping
>with the
nature of the list they should pertain to the beat generation in
>some way, but
c'mon now. If there are further limits
to what can and
>can't be
discussed on this list I would appreciate someone telling me.
Beat-l is a forum
devoted to the study of the lives and works of the writers of
the Beat
Generation, especially Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, & William Burrou
ghs. It is also intended to facilitate scholarly
communication and to serve a
s a bulletin
board for new publications, upcoming conferences, and related Beat
events.
Bill Gargan,
listowner.
If I might add a
personal note: A while back, a
discussion on Generation X see
med to take over
the list. Some our of colleagues may be
reacting to that even
t.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:34:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <01I18USEMOLUDVFREF@dit.ie>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996, col. it's steve wrote:
> I've heard
that Kerouac made recordings of himself reading prose and poetry
> (well i know
he did from Visions of Cody). Is it possible to buy these or are
> they
available. I have a recent song where Jk's reading is backed by hip-hop
> /jazz music
dunno who dunnit though. Anybody with info on these?....v.
Yeah, i know
there's a box set called the jack kerouac Collection (or
something like
that) It contains three CDs. In the
first one Jack reads
his prose and
poems. In the 2nd he reads haikus with
jazz playin in the
background, and
the 3rd is kind of a duet between jack readin his stuff,
and saxophones.
-Matt Sackmann
"Ah yes,
maybe I'm wrong and all the Christian, Islamic, Neo Platonist,
Buddhist, Hindu,
and Zen Mystics of the world were wrong about the
transcendental
mystery of existence but I don't think so- Like the thirty
birds who reached
God and saw themselves reflected in His Mirror.
the
thirty Dirty
Birds, those 970 of us birds who never made it across the
Valley of Divine
Illumination did really make it anyway in Perfection- So
now let me
explain about poor Cody, even though I've already told most of
his story. he is a BELIEVER in life and he WANTS to go
to Heaven but
because he loves
life so he embraces it so much he thinks he sins and
will never
seeHeaven- He was a Catholic altar boy as I say even when he
was bumming dimes
for his hopeless father hiding in alleys.
You could
have ten thousand
cold eyed Materialistic officials claim they love life
too but can never
embrace it so near sin and also never see Heaven- They
will contemn the
hot-blooded lifelover with their cold papers on a desk
because they have
no blood and therefore have no sin?
No! They sin by
lifelessness!They
are the ogres of Law entering the holy realm of Sin1
Ah, I've got to
explain myself without essays and poems-Cody had a wife
whom he really
loved, and three kids he really loved, and a good job on
the
railroad. But when the sun went down his
blood got hot:- hot for old
lovers like
Joanna, for old pleasure like marijuana and talk, for jazz, for
the gayety that
any respectable American wants in a life growing more
arid by the year
in Law Riddenh America. But he did not
hide his desire
and cry DRY! He went all out. He filled hgis car with friends and booze
and pot and
batted around looking for ecstasy like some fieldworker on a
Saturday night in
Georgia when the moon cools the still and guitars are
twangin down the
hill. he came from sturdy Missouri stock
that walked on
strong feet. We've all seen him kneel SWEATING praying to
God!"
Jack Kerouac
describing Neal Cassady in "Desolation Angels"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:41:44 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Books
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <960215.124142.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996, Peter McGahey wrote:
> How many
people out there have read any books by the Beats besides On the
> Road or
Naked Lunch?
>
I Have.
Only one though,
"Desolation Angels", but im just beginning (at 18) to
get truly
fascinated with the Beats.
-matt sackmann
"Ah yes,
maybe I'm wrong and all the Christian, Islamic, Neo Platonist,
Buddhist, Hindu,
and Zen Mystics of the world were wrong about the
transcendental
mystery of existence but I don't think so- Like the thirty
birds who reached
God and saw themselves reflected in His Mirror.
the
thirty Dirty
Birds, those 970 of us birds who never made it across the
Valley of Divine
Illumination did really make it anyway in Perfection- So
now let me
explain about poor Cody, even though I've already told most of
his story. he is a BELIEVER in life and he WANTS to go
to Heaven but
because he loves
life so he embraces it so much he thinks he sins and
will never
seeHeaven- He was a Catholic altar boy as I say even when he
was bumming dimes
for his hopeless father hiding in alleys.
You could
have ten thousand
cold eyed Materialistic officials claim they love life
too but can never
embrace it so near sin and also never see Heaven- They
will contemn the
hot-blooded lifelover with their cold papers on a desk
because they have
no blood and therefore have no sin?
No! They sin by
lifelessness!They
are the ogres of Law entering the holy realm of Sin1
Ah, I've got to
explain myself without essays and poems-Cody had a wife
whom he really
loved, and three kids he really loved, and a good job on
the
railroad. But when the sun went down his
blood got hot:- hot for old
lovers like
Joanna, for old pleasure like marijuana and talk, for jazz, for
the gayety that
any respectable American wants in a life growing more
arid by the year
in Law Riddenh America. But he did not
hide his desire
and cry DRY! He went all out. He filled hgis car with friends and booze
and pot and
batted around looking for ecstasy like some fieldworker on a
Saturday night in
Georgia when the moon cools the still and guitars are
twangin down the
hill. he came from sturdy Missouri stock
that walked on
strong feet. We've all seen him kneel SWEATING praying to
God!"
Jack Kerouac
describing Neal Cassady in "Desolation Angels"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:49:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Books
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:41:16 EST from
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
An odd question
but I've read just about all of Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Burrough
s and most of
what's been written about them.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:14:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Books, poems, etc...
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:41:39 -0500
from
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996 14:41:39 -0500 Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch said:
>I've found it
interesting to read Kerouac, particularly "Dharma Bums" and "On
>The
Road" out loud. The prose has a
definite jazz quality, sort of like the
>heart doing a
saxophone cadenza. I've had the
impression that the period of
>"Dharma
Bums" could very well have been the happiest time for Kerouac. He and
>Snyder lived
in the mountains with no communication with the outside world,
>(and no booze
for that matter) both of them alone with pen and paper, totally
>in their
element.
>
>I have read
and re-read Ginsberg's "Plutonian Ode" and, again, reading it out
>loud, and
maybe playing Peter Gabriel's "Passion" in the background, brings it
>to life. It's a poem that transcends nuclear protest
to a work of
>epic/mythological
proportions.
>
>One of my
favorite Beat poems has got to be Gregory Corso's "Marriage." He
>was here in
Louisville, KY in '93 and he read that one.
I think a
>friend of
mine recorded it on video.
>
>I saw Jim
Carroll recently in Lexington and, even though he is not classed with
>the original
Beats, his books, particularly "Basketball Diaries" and "Forced
>Entries"
have that same immediancy of the moment.
I agree. I think PO is first rate work and one of
Ginsberg's most underrated p
oems. It deserves careful reading.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:30:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@UBC"
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: movers and shakers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.91.960215112307.106533B-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996, Noah Bergman wrote:
> Now, I don't
know if I even agree with this, but... was Kerouac really a
> very
interesting person? His writing skills
were amazing and his depth
> of thought
on a lot of subject was very deep, but just think about
>
something. Most of his books were about
past adventures with a main
> character
other than himself. It seems that when
he was by himself
> without a
Neal Cassidy or Gary Snyder to push him along he resorted to
> drinking to
pass the time. Don't take this as an
attack on Kerouac, he's
> one of my
heroes. I just think that you have to at
least take a glance
> at both
sides of your heroes too.
Kerouac of the
books and Kerouac the real man are two very different
constructs...
In "Jack
Kerouac: Statement in Brown" Joy Walsh has some interesting
comments that
touch upon this topic. Walsh feels that one can gain
insights into
Kerouac's writing by dissociating him from the group of
Beat Generation
writers and looking at him in other contexts. This ties
in with her
perception of Kerouac as always distancing himself from the
events he
describes in his books. A quote: Kerouac removed himself from
the Beats, but
was "part of the gang as an observer, rather than a
participant"
(p. 50). Further: "any content analysis conclusion
concerning the
character or inner motivation of the personae presented as
representations
of Kerouac [...] is almost impossible until we reach
Vanity of
Duluoz" (p. 51)
In another essay
in the same book, Walsh discusses when Kerouac
interjects
himself into his fiction using a certain leitmotif on many
occasions:
"Kerouac's role or presence or much that pertained to him
personally was
introduced by use of a leitmotif. The basic theme [...]
which announces
Kerouac's presence in parts of the canon is the color
Brown (p.41)
Has anyone
noticed this leitmotif or other recurrent textual markers in
the Kerouac
canon?
Regards,
Bent Sorensen
Visiting Grad.
Student, Dept. of English, UBC
Ph.D. Student,
Aalborg University, Denmark
<http://hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.dk>
OR <.../bent.uk>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:49:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Kerouac again
Following up on
Bill`s post, I`d like to say that I`ve also read almost all
of Kerouac and
what`s been written about him. I feel one can best understand
him if one has
done so, so I urge all Beat enthusiasts to read as much
Kerouac
(including his poetry) as possible (and re-read him). While one`s
appreciation of
any author is enhanced by reading his full oeuvre, this is
particularly true
with Kerouac, whose works were intended as a series of
autobiographical,
linked episodes - The Duluoz Legend. Sorry, but I`m on the
side of those who
cannot look at his works in isolation from the lives of
those depicted in
them. Jack shouted over a thousand scarred bartops that
his books were
"true life stories": his insistence on spontaneous
composition only
underscores this. But this doesn`t diminish the books as
literature -
remember, Jack was by definiton trying to create a new American
prose form - he
wanted to, and did, escape the bounds of the European idea
of the novel. So,
judge him by his declared (and revealed) artistic
purposes. And who
cares what Truman Capote thought, or John Updike (the
latter has
started to change his tune, by the way, saying recently that
Kerouac`s books
emphasize "a certain flow" - the literary understatement of
the century,
surely!). We who study Jack and the other Beats must try to
have the same
confidence on the critical level which Jack always
demonstrated as
an artist. Of course, his fight was a much tougher go than
ours will ever
be. He was much damaged by having to cope with the
unthinking, often
jealous, reactions of the Capotes, Podhoretz` and the
rest. As JCH
wrote of Jack, he was incapable of dealing with the world and
its politics.
Jack pointed this out himself in one of his Beat essays when
he said he was
famous on his block as a kid for trying to stop his chums
from roasting
snakes in tin cans and blowing up frogs with straws. Guess
that was just
more typing to Mr. Truman Capote, Novelist...
Gary M. Gillman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:24:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: scott andrew cederlund
<scott@WWA.COM>
Subject: Dharma Bums (was Re: Books)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.960215140722.35421A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>
I just finished
Dharma Bums for a class and it was the Kerouac book I
enjoyed the
most. We read of JK's books, OTR,
Subterraneans, and Dharma
Bums. While I enjoyed all three and got a lot out
of them, I think I
identifired more
with Ray in Dharma Bums than either Sal or Leo.
This is
my first time
reading these books, so maybe that will change with looking
at them some
more.
scott
__________________________________________________________________________
|scott@wwa.com |For my purpose holds |
|scottac@pshrink.chi.il.us
|To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
|
|cy475@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
|Of all the western stars, until I die.
|
| | Ulysses- Alfred Lord Tennyson |
+_________________________________________________________________________+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:39:36 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: scott andrew cederlund
<scott@WWA.COM>
Subject: Gallery Six
Here's just a
question of semantics, but it is something I've been
wanting to
know...
About the Gallery
Six poetry reading, I've seen is named both Gallery Six
and Six
Gallery. What's up with that? Anyone know?
scott
__________________________________________________________________________
|scott@wwa.com |For my purpose holds |
|scottac@pshrink.chi.il.us
|To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
|
|cy475@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
|Of all the western stars, until I die.
|
| | Ulysses- Alfred Lord Tennyson |
+_________________________________________________________________________+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:52:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: re WSB Naked Lunch
>Also, I
Believe, Call Me Burroughs is now available on CD, >does anyone have
a track listing
of this recording, I know that >it was recorded in the
sixties, possibly
in Paris by >Sommerville?
"Call Me
Burroughs" is available on CD or cassette from Rhino/WordBeat (R2/R4
71848). The
original recording was indeed made by Ian Sommerville, in Paris,
and was first
issued by the English Bookshop (Paris) in June, 1965. It was
later released in
the US by ESP-Disk, NYC, 1966.
Tracks are:
Bradley the Buyer; Meeting of International Conference of
Technological
Psychiatry; The Fish Poison Con; Thing Police Keep All Board
Room Reports; Mr.
Bradley Mr. Martin Hear Us Through The Hole In Thin Air;
Where you Belong;
Inflexible Authority; and, Ukranian Willy.
Much of the
material was composed using cut-up techniques, and it is all
delivered in
Burroughs' wonderfully dead-pan, carnival-barker style.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:28:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Books, poems, etc...
On Feb 15, 1996
17:14:43, 'Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>' wrote:
>I have read
and re-read Ginsberg's "Plutonian Ode" and, again, reading it
out
>>loud, and
maybe playing Peter Gabriel's "Passion" in the background,
I saw Ginsberg
read from a hand-written copy of "Plutonium Ode" in Dallas
in '75. I also
somehow ended up with a copy of the hand-written version.
Does anyone know
if such a thing would be valuable or even interesting to a
collector or
curator??
Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:37:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: wsb and black rider
On Feb 15, 1996
14:47:54, '"col. it's steve" <VOSHEA@DIT.IE>' wrote:
>the black
rider is an album by tom waits and burroughs appears on a couple
of
It was actually
an opera performed live at Brooklyn Academy of Music a few
years ago. The
album is the soundtrack.
Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:33:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: No Subject
On Feb 15, 1996
15:27:18, 'Chanda J Pearmon <cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>'
wrote:
>I love to
immulate the beats
Is that
"immolate" or "emulate"?
Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:59:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
On Feb 15, 1996
13:06:48, 'Christopher Teggatz <Teggatz@AOL.COM>' wrote:
>I asked the
hotel owner, an old Englishman named John
>Sutcliffe, if
he heard from any of the Beats any more.
>"Yes, he
said, Burroughs stayed here two weeks ago. "
>I could have
cried, I was so close. Of course, Sutcliffe claimed it was no
>loss--"All
those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it
I went to school
with a John Sutcliffe at Kenyon in the 60's. His father,
Denholm, was
chairman of the English dept there for years.
Please describe
him (private
email) if you can. He would be about 50, tall and large-boned
with what I can
only call a thin head relative to his body. Am I way off
here or what?
Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:55:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Books
On Feb 15, 1996
13:11:11, 'Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>' wrote:
>Also, I'd
like to start a discussion on Gary Snyder.
What would people
>in the know
recommend of his. I've read some of his
work and find it
>exquisite
(something in "Civilization" speaks to me).
I have followed
Gary Snyder's work for many years (about 30, last count)
and have been to
readings of his and met him once (1970).
His best work I
feel was written
in the 60's and early 70's (Riprap, Cold Mountain Poems
translation, The
Back Country, Mountains and Rivers Without End, Earth
Household, Myths
& Texts, Regarding Wave, and maybe Turtle Island. As for
critical works
about him, Gary Snyder by Bob Steuding, published by Twayne,
a division of G.
K. Hall & Co., Boston, 1976 is the only one I have read,
but it is fairly
complete and competent for it's time. Snyder is perhaps
the most
scholarly of the beats, having obtained a doctorate, studied Zen
in Japan, and
done much criticism as well as taught extensively. There was
a recent series
narrated by Bill Moyers about living poets and the episode
on Snyder was
quite moving. It aired on PBS a few months ago.
Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:30:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J. Killin"
<JMkill@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Football Career
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: BREWERNC@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
To: JMkill@aol.com
Date: 96-02-15
21:13:53 EST
Toby,
Hi. My Name is Nate and I have done a
lot of reading on the
Beats to say the
least. The best account of Kerouac's
career ending
injury is given
in the biography titled, Memory Babe. I
am not to sure
who wrote it, but
I think that it was Ann Charters, but I wouldn't bet my
life on it. I believe that Tom Clark also mentions
something about it
in his biography
as well. Check the first one first, it
is a superior
record of Jack's
life, that cuts out all the myth and legend, and still
makes for a very
good read.
later
nate
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 00:17:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: fucked up on rugs (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: fucked up on rugs
i don't think the
beats got fucked up (ok there's always casualties) on drugs
they used them to
get high, to change perception to just go,go,go.
its when they become a lifestyle
that they become
a problem -"fucked up"- thing.
I
don't
think its fair to
say they got fucked up (not all of them anyway)..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember - Bill
shot his wife in the head and had to flee several countries
and states
because of his drug habit. He also went
on a safari to find
Yage. I think that would qualify as a drug problem
with the DEA.
Does anyone else
find it at all ironic that the Beats who chose alcohol
died so quickly
and those who favored the "hard stuff" just seem to
be immortal?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 03:06:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Books
********************************************************************************
*
*
I just wanted to
ask if anybody else feels Dharma Bums rivals On the Road
for quality. It may have just been the state of mind I was
in when I
read it, but I
found Dharma Bums to be much more clearly written. I
think in On the
Road Kerouac was still rough in his transitions from
traditional to
spontaneous prose. Dharma Bums is much
more smooth in
terms of how it
is more difficult to diffuse the spontaneous from the
pre-thought.
Also, I'd like to
start a discussion on Gary Snyder. What
would people
in the know
recommend of his. I've read some of his
work and find it
exquisite
(something in "Civilization" speaks to me).
********************************************************************************
*
**
I've read DB twice and enjoyed it immensely
both times. I think it is less
driven than OTR,
more
meditative--the difference between Neil & Gary basically. I agree with you
that it's clearer
than OTR, but
perhaps less poetic. Or maybe its poetry
is more that of the
haiku (a form
which Kerouac
& Snyder have a lot of fun with in the book) while OTR is more
free-flowing
great jazzy
romantic strophes. (Go, go, go.)
BTW Gary Snyder has said in interviews (and
perhaps somewhere in print?)
that
he does not
consider DB to be on a par with OTR-- but I don't recall him
elaborating.
I think Snyder's best work can be found in
*Turtle Island* and *Regarding
Wave*.
Also I'm very
fond of *Riprap and Cold Mountain Poems*, an early work.
" The world's like an endless
Four-dimensional
Game of GO."
--Riprap
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 03:06:24 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: WSB Questions
dnder:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Trevor D. Smith" <V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: WSB Questions
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
Hello all:
>To save some
bandwith, let me pose the one I am most interested
>in having
aswere: between his Harvard schooling,
and travels (exiles)
>in a myriad
of countries, did WSB speak/read/write any language
>other than
english?? He intended to study medicine
in Vienna
>(and,
according to Morgan, could read "some" German)
>and quotes
himself using spanish words throughout _Junky_,
>but otherwise
there are no allusions to his foreign
>language
abilities.
>Bill Jr.
makes fun of his old man's French (I think?) in
>_Kentucky
Ham_ (if I recall correctly), but I wonder how
>substantiated
this may be.
WSB certainly has
rich knowledge of several languages, but
I question
his ability to
speak them with any fluency. Or maybe I
should say his DESIRE
to speak them
with any fluency, since the man doesn't even seem to try. His
spoken German
and Spanish are
hilariously bad.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 03:06:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: wsb and black rider
>the black
rider is an album by tom waits and burroughs appears on a couple of
>tracks,
they're very good.If waits is doing the roswell opera it should prove
>interesting.Waits'
earlier work is influenced by the beats and well worth
>checking out
esp. closing time, the heart of saturday night and blue valentine.
I would
enthusiastically second the recommendations, adding *Rain Dogs* and
*Frank's
Wild Years* to
the list. The beat influence on Waits is
unmistakable, and Waits
+ Burroughs is a
great synergy.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:12:49 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: fucked up on rugs (fwd)
>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>From: "col. it's steve"
<VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
>Subject: fucked up on rugs
>
>i don't think
the beats got fucked up (ok there's always casualties) on drugs
>they used
them to get high, to change perception to just go,go,go.
>
>
its when they become a lifestyle
>that they
become a problem -"fucked up"- thing.
>
I don't
>think its
fair to say they got fucked up (not all of them anyway)..
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Remember -
Bill shot his wife in the head and had to flee several countries
>and states
because of his drug habit. He also went
on a safari to find
>Yage. I think that would qualify as a drug problem
with the DEA.
Granted, Bill was
a junkie (hence the name of his book). Bill and Huncke are
the exceptions.
To clarify, the search for yage was a purely spiritual
quest. Bill was
the scientist here (or pseudo-scientist as I am sure he
would prefer to
be called). It (the long search) was not part of his junk
problem (if
indeed he saw it as a problem - "Junk is a way of life").
>
>Does anyone
else find it at all ironic that the Beats who chose alcohol
>died so
quickly and those who favored the "hard stuff" just seem to
>be immortal?
>
Also
illuminatory. Alcohol is a thoroughly horrible drug.
Alan Maddrell -
who wishes he could be fucked on rugs so he wouldn't have to
be fucked on
drugs...:)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:35:46 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
Two years ago I
was in Tangier, staying at the Tanger Inn room 9 (where NAKED
LUNCH was
written). I asked the hotel owner, an old Englishman named John
Sutcliffe, if he
heard from any of the Beats any more.
"Yes, he
said, Burroughs stayed here two weeks ago. "
I could have
cried, I was so close. Of course, Sutcliffe claimed it was no
loss--"All
those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it.
Christopher
Miezio-Teggatz
I stayed in the
same place, Hotel Muniria in 93 and remember John well.
How did you
manage to stay in room 9, that was John's room! He told me
that Cronenborg
(sp) had recently visited to take photos for the Naked
Lunch sets for
his movie, which was eventually shot in Canada....the
Tanger Inn was a
great place for a chilled beer in the evening.....happy
memories
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:10:40 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
>loss--"All
those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it
I went to school
with a John Sutcliffe at Kenyon in the 60's. His father,
Denholm, was
chairman of the English dept there for years.
Please describe
him (private
email) if you can. He would be about 50, tall and large-boned
with what I can
only call a thin head relative to his body. Am I way off
here or what?
***************************************************************************
I remember that
John Sutcliffe had his own novel for sale down in the
Tanger Inn,
though they had sold out and had only the copy on display
which wasn't for
sale. Anyone read this, or remember what it's called?
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:18:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: movers and shakers
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:30:55 -0800
from
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996 14:30:55 -0800 bs@UBC said:
>On Thu, 15
Feb 1996, Noah Bergman wrote:
>
>> Now, I
don't know if I even agree with this, but... was Kerouac really a
>> very
interesting person? His writing skills
were amazing and his depth
>> of
thought on a lot of subject was very deep, but just think about
>>
something. Most of his books were about
past adventures with a main
>>
character other than himself. It seems
that when he was by himself
>> without
a Neal Cassidy or Gary Snyder to push him along he resorted to
>> drinking
to pass the time. Don't take this as an
attack on Kerouac, he's
>> one of
my heroes. I just think that you have to
at least take a glance
>> at both
sides of your heroes too.
>
>Kerouac of
the books and Kerouac the real man are two very different
>constructs...
>
>In "Jack
Kerouac: Statement in Brown" Joy Walsh has some interesting
>comments that
touch upon this topic. Walsh feels that one can gain
>insights into
Kerouac's writing by dissociating him from the group of
>Beat
Generation writers and looking at him in other contexts. This ties
>in with her
perception of Kerouac as always distancing himself from the
>events he
describes in his books. A quote: Kerouac removed himself from
>the Beats,
but was "part of the gang as an observer, rather than a
>participant"
(p. 50). Further: "any content analysis conclusion
>concerning
the character or inner motivation of the personae presented as
>representations
of Kerouac [...] is almost impossible until we reach
>Vanity of
Duluoz" (p. 51)
>
>In another
essay in the same book, Walsh discusses when Kerouac
>interjects
himself into his fiction using a certain leitmotif on many
>occasions:
"Kerouac's role or presence or much that pertained to him
>personally
was introduced by use of a leitmotif. The basic theme [...]
>which
announces Kerouac's presence in parts of the canon is the color
>Brown (p.41)
>
>Has anyone
noticed this leitmotif or other recurrent textual markers in
>the Kerouac
canon?
>
>Regards,
>
>Bent Sorensen
>Visiting
Grad. Student, Dept. of English, UBC
>Ph.D.
Student, Aalborg University, Denmark
><http://hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.dk>
OR <.../bent.uk>
Yes, Joy as usual
is right on target. Anyone in touch with
Joy? Wish we could
get her to join
this list.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:29:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Football Career
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:30:50 -0500
from <JMkill@AOL.COM>
On Thu, 15 Feb
1996 22:30:50 -0500 J. Killin said:
>---------------------
>Forwarded
message:
>From: BREWERNC@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
>To: JMkill@aol.com
>Date:
96-02-15 21:13:53 EST
>
>Toby,
>
> Hi. My Name is Nate and I have done a
lot of reading on the
>Beats to say
the least. The best account of Kerouac's
career ending
>injury is
given in the biography titled, Memory Babe.
I am not to sure
>who wrote it,
but I think that it was Ann Charters, but I wouldn't bet my
>life on
it. I believe that Tom Clark also
mentions something about it
>in his
biography as well. Check the first one
first, it is a superior
>record of
Jack's life, that cuts out all the myth and legend, and still
>makes for a
very good read.
>
>later
>nate
Big mistake! You'll get into a lot of trouble saying Ann
Charters wrote Memory
Babe. Gerry Nicosia wrote Memory Babe. Ann Charters wrote Kerouac, the first
biography.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:38:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac...an obnoxious fellow?
Jack Kerouac was
an alcoholic.
Alcoholism is a
disease.
That does not
excuse anything he did.
Based on his
writing I will always believe his core, his soul was a thing of
beauty. And I believe that part of the essence of
"beat" was a way for all
of us to see and
express the beauty within. No perfect,
but beautiful -- and
what a gift he
had to express it. Thanks Jack. Thanks to all great artists.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:35:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "joe@bullet.sware.com"
<100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: accusatory mindfucking stare
the list has
mentioned kerouac's bitterness in last chapter of his life, and in
particular the
last few books he wrote.
it brought back a
conversation i'd read between kerouac & c.jarvis about neals
death,
specifically other writers who'd written about neal...
"do you feel
any resentment against tom wolfe, or even ken kesey who obviously
became neal
cassady's buddy?"
kerouac threw me
the accusatory mindfucking stare again.
"i'm too old
to resent anybody -- you diabolical professor, you."
he smiled
faintly.
"but even if
i weren't too old, and even if this were a few years back, i could
bear no grudge
against any man."
joe
##########################################################################
it no longer
makes me cry and die and tear myself to see her go because
everything goes
away from me like that now - girls, visions, anything, just in
the same way and
forever and i accept lostness forever.
everything
belongs to me because i am poor.
- jk:voc
##########################################################################
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:41:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Christopher Teggatz
<Teggatz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: fucked up on rugs
Two thoughts on
the drugs line...
First, Jazz
players were often associated with drug lifestyle (just as there
is little doubt
that the Smashing Pumpkins use heroin...and don't get me
wrong, MELLON
COLLIE is fabulous) and just as kids today emulate the fucked
up Seattle grunge
rockers, so too did the Beats want to emulate certain
aspects of the
jazz lifestyle.
Second, Tangier
(the literary capital of the 50s, just as Paris was for the
Lost Generation)
at the time was like Amsterdam today--drugs were widely
available and
legal and "everyone was doing it"--again, lifestyle (visit
Amsterdam and
you'll see what I mean). Indeed, the Beats esp. Burroughs came
to Tangier
precisely to get drugs (and for the relaxed attitude toward
homosexuality).
Though yes, I
think they did drugs to "go go
go" and expand consciousness,
it seems to me
that drugs were very much a part of who the Beats *were.*
e.g., Paul Bowles
liked to write while stoned on majoun (sp?) and the death
chapters of
SHELTERING SHY are a drug-induced masterwork--and could he have
written it
without drugs? The same goes for NAKED LUNCH--a sober WSB just
couldn't have
written it. I don't think this in any way derides the Beats,
But to look
at Beat writing without the context of
drugs (incl. alcohol) and
the drug
lifestyle is like studying the Lost Generation and ignoring the
consequences of
WWI, or misunderstanding who "the man" is with Lou Reed.
or am I way off?
Is there any literature on the topic?
Chris Teggatz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:41:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Christopher Teggatz
<Teggatz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: John Sutcliffe
Yes, Sutcliffe
has his own novel for sale--I purchased an autographed copy.
Unfortunately I
can't find it in my bookcase, but if memory serves correct,
it's called
"The Secret Pilgrim." It was my reading during the long flight
home from
Tangier, and it wasn't very good. I got the impression that
Sutcliffe
was just doing the fashionable thing at
the time--i.e., all the
expats in Tangier
were writing.
Chris Teggatz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:41:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Christopher Teggatz
<Teggatz@AOL.COM>
Subject: Paul Bowles
Please forgive me
if I'm treading on old gound, but do you consider Bowles I
Beat? An atypical
Beat I admit--an especially atypical Beat in terms of
style--but where
else can you place him? Particularly in terms of lifestyle,
he is Beat all
the way, and he certainly can't be lumped together with his
other American
contemporaries like Salinger and Cheever.
I make a point of
reading Bowles's LET IT COME DOWN once a year, and every
time it thrills
me.
Chris Teggatz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:57:58 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Cassady and the Grateful Dead
This came from
another list - thought you would all enjoy this.
>>
>> The
following is Cassady rapping with the Dead at the Straight
>> Theatre,
7/67. It's from a flexi-disk that came
with the book (I
>> think)
"Dead Days- A Social History of the Grateful Dead" by Hank
>> Harrison
(again, I don't have it with me so I'm not sure.)
>>
>> Some of
it I can't understand, he mumbles a lot of words and
>> creates
a few of his own I think. The Dead are playing what sounds
>> like the
beginning of Lovelight over and over with Neil throwing in
>> a few
ummp's and haaaarrr's occaisionally, just weird sounds and
>> a lot
breathing into the mic. Except for when he stops to let the
>> band
play he is speaking as if he's reading it all from a book; he
>> sounds a
little bit like an unpretentious Jim Morrison.
>>
>> (Jerry
intros Neil)
>> Neil
Cassady. Neil cassady.
>>
>> (Neil)
>> I got
the penguin right here in my pocket <loud drums and
>>
guitars/Neil mumbling something> -four fingers, ya know, it's just
>> the claw
and me, three inches, bigger than- and
>> I said,
of course, in the Metro, as they, but it hides my thumb and
>> lso
reveals my Greek torso, huh... At 49th, I said, Spence?
>> haven't
seen him since 51st he said move two, 49th, huh. Nope, move
>> to 51st.
<more mumbles/band begins playing> The waiter in 56th beat
>> the 6
seeds he had, seed law in marijuana, the only ratting I ever
>> did...
And now marijuana, oooo! I was saying in the- ya alright in
>> there,
(taps on the mic) on the wall, Mr Cassady? I only got twenty
>> years on
ya... I knew I shoulda worn more paisley. I double-crossed
>> him- no,
the son of the mAN is about to bounce the podiUM. Rimsby
>> was
impressed in a short drive, huh, I said I'm serious about
>> America
DeMarco, Greg, at the, uh, last year, ya know, we arrived
>> it from
time. <Lovelight-ish jam> Double-parkin' winamarker(?)
>> speeder
and derns(?) six days it was finally she grabbed the, of
>> course,
Vics vapor rub, it's in the vaseline, that's what ended it.
>> My first
child, forty, uh, two then, Charlie Valensia, on tempo(?)
>> where we
had an acid test, but thirteenfifty, his father, half
>> Mexican
half Irish like Anthony Quinn, so he loved me, ya know,
>> that was
a triumph-pf-of us, the only tree-way I ever had,
>>
Kerouac's not queer, but my present wife, the fourth, and he, it
>> was
just, NewYear's Eve, sort of, uh, we was always looking for a
>> colored
girl, Carol Ashty(?), finally found her, that was the last
>> time I
committed suicide, I knew toward the fourth sign, across the
>> Hudson,
get across this looong Missooouri that preacher said
>>
<mumble> or I didn't see it, move ooon. Ummm, ha-h-haa (to
>>
Lovelight.) -menopausal, don't ask me how, twenty years I fell ten
>> on the
railroad and ten more for, uh, and, uh, I'll be dead a
>> thousand
years see, so, if I don't do right now, right in it- Reb
>> Barker
the same acid test then, use to be Al Collins all fat and
>> sassy,
you know, but he was all skinny and dressed in a, uh, you
>> can work
yourself inta anything, how'd he get outta it? Six days,
>> uh, six
glasses a day pretty soon your system demands it thousand
>> days
Orabindo(?) says you've had it old joe alcoholic, you know, we
>> used to
drink together, but he went drinking. <mumbling> (music is
>> turned
up a bit/Neil still mumbling random words) -a German
>>
pornograpghy... Uummmbbuuuyyyyyy... He stay offer thou wake to
>> wake(?,)
oh, the name of that Christ don't call on that I said
>> that's
another, huh, then the next day November 1st is all souls,
>> all
saints. <music> Huhuhu. <skat-singing> He did nothin' I did
>> nothin',
and finally there's nothin', there wudn't nothin' he
>> wouldn't
do for me and nothin' I wouldn't do for him but we sat
>> around
all time doin' nothin'! Twentymilesanhourthe great four
>> wheel
drift he, uh, adjusting his goggles, ya know, everybody in
>> the
audience with their right foot but I can't heel and toe I'm
>> double
left, huh, Dooom-dee-dee-umm, dee-
>>
>> It's all
about 5 minutes, but really funny; immpossible to
>>
reproduce the rhythm in his voice, the nuances.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>
****************************************************************************
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
(please note new code takes effect January 20, 1996)
E-Mail:
nweir-w@nwu.edu
Life is
six-to-five against
****************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 15:44:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: JK/Beat recordings Discography
My friend,
Stephen Ronan, is in the very final stages of publishing what
should be the
definitive discography of recordings by Beat writers. It will
be titled
"Discs of the Gone World, An Annotated Discography oif the Beat
Generation (With
a Checklist of Unreleased Recordings).
Stephen (who is
not online) describes it: "Available for the first time
anywhere a
comprehensive guide to the jazz poetry, literary arts and humor of
the Beats and
thier fellow travelers. From the most
subterranean ephemera to
the major reissue
boxes of the nineties, all pertinent is examined and
described in
detail. Features: All individual
releases on LP, cassette, & CD
of Beat audio
culture, a compilation of unreleased tapes explaining what they
include, and a
seperate listing of all Beat homage releases."
It will be priced
at $20 available from:
(ask for more
info or make checks payable to Stephen Ronan and add a buck or
two for postage
and tell him I sent ya!)
Beat Books
P. O. Box 5813
Berkeley, CA 94705
I'm sorry if
anyone is offended by this posting, but with all the discussion
about recordings
and confusion, I thought this would be a service to many on
the list.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 15:00:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>
Subject: New NL CD
For those of you
who have asked, the new Naked Lunch CD published
by TimeWarner IS
READ BY WSB.
It is three hours
long, and although it isn't NL word for word
from any
particular edition, it is great.
Regards
Luke
/\
/\ /\ /\
| Luke Kelly
/\/
\/ \/\/ __o
/ \/\ | lpk@kdsi.net or
/\ / /
\ / \<,_
/ \ | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu
/ /
..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ |
http://www.kdsi.net
Please don't
drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 18:16:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: fucked up on rugs
In a message
dated 96-02-16 11:49:24 EST, you write:
>Second,
Tangier (the literary capital of the 50s, just as Paris was for the
>Lost
Generation) at the time was like Amsterdam today--drugs were widely
>a
I've read the
Michelle Green 'Dream at the End of the World' and 'Joujoka
Rolling Stone',
but the convergence of WSB, m/M Bowles, Ansen & Chester does
not really
constitute a "Literary Capital".
Were there others of note?
<<I'm with
you in Rockland>>
Dan Lauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 01:43:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Meredith Blackmann <BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
Subject: beats exhibit
just a note: there's a beat exhibit going on at the
whitney museum in NYC.
i don't know the exact dates it's
running. it's also traveling around the
country.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 14:09:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: In THEIR humble opinion
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.960214145630.6916A-100000@sleepy> from
"L.Kelly"
at Feb 14, 96 03:14:15 pm
Hello,all...
Just picked
myself up a copy of John Clellon Holmes'
'Displaced
Person' at a used bookstore in Portland,Maine,and
just HAD to tell
someone!
With that said,I
had a question or two...
1.Hemingway-
Anyone know if he had particular opinions of
the beat writers/writings?
2.Kerouac-
Did Jack have any
opinions on the writings of J.D.Salinger?
I truly enjoy the
discussions on this list.
Best,
Carl Biancucci
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:45:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beats exhibit
The Beat exhibit
at the Whitney in NYC is over now. It
will open in
Minneapolis again
in late spring.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:56:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mat Awad
<mawad01@MAIL.ORION.ORG>
Subject: dumb maggie?
Just a quick
question for all you learned folks. In *Maggie Cassidy*, why
she does not
attend Lowell High with Jack. Why not? Pauline says
something to the
effect that she isn't smart enough, but I'm not sure
MC2 should be the
final authority on this one. Any info?
OK, I lied, two
questions. The OED/Freudian thing in *Dr. Sax*. How much
do you think it
was intended and how much do you think it was just
happenstance?
Just to let my opinion be known, a friend of mine said that
if JK truly meant
for it to be that Oedipal it would have taken him 30
years to write. I
agree.
Mat
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:07:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul Clement Czaja
<czaja@K12.SSDS.COM>
Anyone out there
on the winds of the Noosphere know exactly where in
*The Brothers
Karamazov* the saintly monk, Father Sosima, tells a
troubled woman:
"I'm sorry, all I can say is that active love is a harsh
and dreadful
thing, but it is the only answer." and leaves it at that?
I still remember
where I was when I read that line (Duane Library on Rose
Hill in the
Bronx) but I am going blind trying to find it again there in
the midst of so many
millions of wonderful existential lines.
Lamont C.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:19:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul Clement Czaja
<czaja@K12.SSDS.COM>
Subject: DISREGARD TEST
This is a test
only; no need to respond.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 09:58:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Allen Ginsberg---post beatific
Comments: cc:
cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.960215123649.21502B-100000@axis.mtholyoke.edu>
from "Chanda J Pearmon"
at Feb 15, 96 12:38:17 pm
Chanda J. Pearmon
writes:
> On Tue, 13
Feb 1996, Tony Trigilio wrote:
>>
*Journals, Mid-Fifties: 1954-1958*. I saw him read from the book here
>> in
Boston, and by my observation he was gracious and energetic. Hope
>
> wow, can you
expand any on the reading? Journals, mid-fifties...
is what
> first got me
into the beat culture
I guess one of
the things I liked most about the reading was how
Ginsberg
carefully maneuvered it away from a worshipful gathering and
toward an evening
focused also on the poetic and historical material in
the
journals. When I say "worshipful
gathering," I think right now of
Peter McGahey's
recent cautions on the list about the dangers of
biographical
over-emphasis. Don't get me wrong, the
reading was
sprinkled with
great anecdotes, and Ginsberg's asides between readings
of excerpts from
the journal were excellent; the details of his
biography are
rich and instructive--especially more so now, as the 90s
begin to look
more like the 50s than the 80s ever did (what did
Eisenhower
say? "Things are more like they are
now than they ever were
before").
But with the
sheer biographical heft of the journals, the reading had the
potential to
lapse into just a bull session--preaching anecdotes only to
the
converted. The reading offered both: Ginsberg read from journal
entries that
described source material from the period, all of which
were useful in
contextualizing his early work; he read from dream
transcriptions
that were hilarious, and that helped illuminate his
composition
process; and he read from poem drafts and unpublished works
in the journals,
drafts that he revised from the printed text as he
read.
The reading of
the drafts and unpublished works helped bring to life his
past remarks on
using the speech-thought unit to create stanzas within
line- units; his
effort to base poetic form more on ear, voice, and
breath than on
line. I'm sure one could get this effect
from any
reading he
performs, yet I didn't expect a reading from journals to go
quite this
way. In all, the reading was politically
charged,
instructive, and
hilarious. I wish more of us would
emphasize
Ginsberg's sense
of humor/camp, because more often than not he's using
humor/camp for
serious social ends (first thing that comes to mind right
now is "Kral
Majales" and the photos of the 1965 Czech May Day parade).
Afterwards, he
took questions from the standing-room crowd.
Some of the
questions were
insightful, and others seemed like questions he must have
heard hundreds of
times over the years. He treated almost
all questions
carefully and
graciously, as if each constituted the first time he had
been asked.
You said these
journals first got you into the beats.
Is there one
aspect of the
journals you liked best/liked least? Any
one anecdote,
dream
transcription, or poem that moved you above all else in the book?
Best,
Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 14:33:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re; beats exhibit
Who is in charge
of the exhibit and how can I find out a schedule?
Paul
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:28:07 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
>Tell us more
about the hip-hop/jazzed backed kerouac you mention above. Is
>iyt new?
There's a band
called United Future Organisation which had a track of K
talking over hip
hop/jazz backing. From what I can
remember the spoken word
piece is in the
Kerouac CD box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Gray
Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
CSIRO Division of
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:49:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: beats exhibit
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 17 Feb 1996 01:43:23 -0500
from
<BoomShenka@AOL.COM>
On Sat, 17 Feb
1996 01:43:23 -0500 Meredith Blackmann said:
>just a
note: there's a beat exhibit going on at
the whitney museum in NYC.
> i don't know
the exact dates it's running. it's also
traveling around the
>country.
Sorry Beat
exhibit closed earlier this month at Whitney.
It's on the road. Th
ose in DC area
may also want to catch the Rebels and Poets show which, despite
some censorship,
I hear is a good show.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 11:11:59 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
>>Tell us
more about the hip-hop/jazzed backed kerouac you mention above. Is
>>iyt new?
>
>There's a
band called United Future Organisation which had a track of K
>talking over
hip hop/jazz backing. From what I can
remember the spoken word
>piece is in
the Kerouac CD box.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Duncan Gray
>Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
>CSIRO
Division of Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
>Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the
Info.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 17:59:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Kerouac`s sound
Recently listened
again to the three CD, repackaged set of K`s recordings,
released by Rhino
a few years ago. I highly recommend these recordings,
which enhance so
much the experience of reading Kerouac because his resonant
voice, adroit
breath pauses, panoply of accents and consonontal dexterity
(even when
seemingly blitzed!) really bring to life the meaning of some of
the more obscure
parts of his work. In particular, the recordings reveal the
full range of his
dark humour, and compassion. I understand Steve Ronan did
a lot of the work
to put this package together, and, along with the other
planners of this
project, deserves the undying thanks of all Kerouac
enthusiasts. As an
index of what to expect(for those who don`t know the
recordings),
consider that the liner notes indicate that Michael McClure
reports that,
even though he knew the recordings (from when they first came
out), after
listening to them on these (pristine-sounding) CD`s in question
while driving his
car, he became so overwhelmed by emotion listening to his
old friend in his
prime that he had to pull over to the side of the road...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 18:55:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Kiriazis <kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
Subject: jk recordings
There seems to be
some interest in this hip-hop recording.
I would also
recommend a 1993
CD of William Burroughs reading his work to music. It is
called
"Spare Ass Annie and other Tales" and includes 15 selections. Most
of the music is
by The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy and includes some
jazz, reggae,
hip-hop, etc. It is put out by Island
Red Label of Island
Records.
Bill Kiriazis
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 16:31:54 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: beats exhibit
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96021913514708@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Greetings, All-
I have been
getting bounce messgages after having sent to the BEAT-L
address. Can anyone shed any light on this?
Michael Bertsch
VP Academic
Affairs
VOU, Inc.
Athena University
http://www.athena.edu
On Mon, 19 Feb
1996, Bill Gargan wrote:
> On Sat, 17
Feb 1996 01:43:23 -0500 Meredith Blackmann said:
> >just a
note: there's a beat exhibit going on at
the whitney museum in NYC.
> > i don't
know the exact dates it's running. it's
also traveling around the
> >country.
>
> Sorry Beat
exhibit closed earlier this month at Whitney.
It's on the road. T
h
> ose in DC
area may also want to catch the Rebels and Poets show which, despite
> some
censorship, I hear is a good show.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 23:00:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac's Injury
"Two weeks
before his nineteenth birthday in March 1941, after he had
recuperated FROM
A BROKEN LEG THE PREVIOUS FALL WHEN HE WAS TACKLED DURING
HIS SECOND
FRESHAMN FOOTBALL GAME AT COLUMBIA, Kerouac began to write a
series of
postcards to SEbastian Sampas at Emerson College in Boston. Of
all his Lowell
friends, Jack felt a special affinity with Sebastian, remembering
in Vanity of Dulouz that Sebastian 'was a
great kid, knightlike, i.e.,
noble, a poet,
goodlooking, crazy, sweet, sad, everything a man should
want as a
friend.'"
Ann Charters _Jack
Kerouac: Selected Letters_
Also to mention
are the fact that this Injury no doubt had everything to
do with his
career as a writer. During this period is when he began to
read all the
books he would need and as well to begin writing (altho he
always liked to
write). THIS INJURY DID NOT END HIS
CAREER HOWEVER, as he
himself explains
very clearly in Vanity of Dulouz it was just a crazy
dream he had that
did it (he was on the team--not playing when he did it!)
Lastly it is good
to mention that Sebastian Sampas no doubt had a big part
to do with his
life, infact the whole family did!! (Wifey, estate, etc.)
I would suggest
everyone who has read a lot of Jack's books and want more
to read this
book. It is like a real life book about
him writen by himself.
It is composed of
hundreds of letters to Allen Ginsberg, Neal Cassidy,
Carl Solomon,
Editors, Memere, John Clellon Holmes, William Burroughs,
and on and on and
on. BUY IT, READ IT. I SOLD CD'S TO GET IT!!
NpH
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:36:39 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: jk recordings
>There seems
to be some interest in this hip-hop recording.
I would also
>recommend a
1993 CD of William Burroughs reading his work to music. It is
>called
"Spare Ass Annie and other Tales" and includes 15 selections. Most
>of the music
is by The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy and includes some
>jazz, reggae,
hip-hop, etc. It is put out by Island
Red Label of Island
>Records.
>
>Bill Kiriazis
I'd echo that
100% - it's a great CD. Hell, I liked it so much I recently
recited
"Words of advice for young people" at a poetry reading. Went down OK
I think...
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 14:54:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chanda J Pearmon
<cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Injury
In-Reply-To: <01I1EXM7LPT2003KOV@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
On Mon, 19 Feb
1996, Nicholas Herren wrote:
> Ann Charters _Jack
Kerouac: Selected Letters_
> It is
composed of hundreds of letters to Allen Ginsberg, Neal Cassidy,
> Carl
Solomon, Editors, Memere, John Clellon Holmes, William Burroughs,
> and on and
on and on. BUY IT, READ IT. I SOLD CD'S TO GET IT!!
Or just go check
it out at the library like I did.
Nicholas is right
though. These letters provide a wealth of
information, and insight into
how Kerouac saw
himself, and his writing. I have some
selected quotes
from the letters
on my web page...under quotes..then kerouac..
/|\ ))_((
/|\
/ | \ (/\|/\)
/ | \
|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|
|-| '^`
(o o) '^` |-|
|-| Morpheus
`\Y/' |-|
|-|
cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|
|-|
http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|
|-| |-|
|-| "Come back, come back, come back |-|
|-| today.
Come back, come back, |-|
|-| come back to stay..." |-|
|-|______________________________________|-|
l /\ /
( ( \ /\ l
l / V
\ \ V \ l
l/ _) )_ \I
`\ /'
`
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 16:54:35 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Injury
Thanks for
bringing up the subject of the recently published book of
Kerouac's
letters.
I wanted to say,
and this gives me the perfect lead in, that last night I
saw the book in
paperback.
So now it is
available in paperback. Cost $15.95.
I was unstingy
enough and unpatient enough to buy the hardbound, but for
those of you who
waited it is available now in paperback.
There you go.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 19:18:18 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: test
test
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 19:12:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Kerouac's Birthday
Comments: To:
brooklyn@netcom.com, schorr@world.com, event@globe.com,
noweek@globe.com, living@globe.com,
klmcomm@aol.com,
heraledit@delphi.com,
71632.63@compuserve.com, mnews@world.std.com,
general@the-tec.mit.edu,
radio@csps.com, news@baywindows.com,
wbcn104fm@aol.com,
wbrs@binah.cc.brandeis.com
LOWELL CELEBRATES
JACK KEROUAC'S BIRTHDAY
LOWELL, MA. Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! will celebrate
the birthday of
American author
Jack Kerouac with events in Lowell, MA and Nashua, NH on
March 9 and 10,
1996..
<<Saturday,
9 March 1996>>
4:00 PM
Commemorative Reading at Kerouac Park (Corner of Bridge and French
Streets, Lowell,
MA) Bring your favorite passage and join in.
6:00 PM
"Poems of the Night" a guided tour of Kerouac sites along the
Merrimack River.
Tour begins at the Pawtuckeville MacDonald's Restaurant,
corner of Mammoth
Road and VFW Highway. Bring your copy of Dr. Sax.
>>Sunday,
10 March 1996>>
2:00-4:00 PM "The Nashua Connection" Steve
Edington reads from his work
in progress on
Kerouac's literary and biographical association with
Nashua, NH.
Barnes and Noble Bookstore, Daniel Webster Highway, Nashua,
NH.
Press Release
Attached.
For more
information call 508-458-1721, or email mhemenway@igc.apc.org.
Thanks,
Mark Hemenway
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc.Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
P.O. Box 1111,
Lowell, MA 01853
PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE
RELEASE PRESS CONTACT: Mark Hemenway
(508)475-9090 or
(508)458-1721
PUBLIC INQUIRIES: (508)458-1721
LOWELL EVENTS TO
CELEBRATE JACK KEROUAC BIRTHDAY
LOWELL, MA. Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! will celebrate
the birthday of
American author Jack Kerouac with events in
Lowell, MA and Nashua, NH on March
9 and 10, 1996.. The celebration will begin
with an informal commemorative
reading of his work at 4:00 PM, Saturday,
March 9, 1996 at Kerouac Park on the
corner of Bridge and French Streets in Lowell,
MA. A guided tour of Kerouac
sites along the Merrimack River will begin at
6:00 PM from the Pawtuckeville
MacDonald's Restaurant on the corner of
Mammoth Road and VFW Highway. Both
events will include readings of Kerouac's work
with an emphasis on his Lowell
novel, Dr. Sax. Participants should bring
copies of their favorite passages to
read aloud.
On Sunday, 10 March, from 2:00 to 4:00
PM at the Barnes & Noble Bookstore,
Daniel Webster Highway, Nashua, NH, Steve
Edington will read from his work in
progress on the history of the Kerouac family
in Nashua,
Jack Kerouac
Birthday Events are summarized as follows:
Saturday, 9 March
1996
4:00 PM
Commemorative Reading at Kerouac Park (Corner of Bridge and French
Streets, Lowell, MA) Bring your favorite
passage and join in.
6:00 PM
"Poems of the Night" a guided tour of Kerouac sites along the
Merrimack
River. Tour begins at the Pawtuckeville
MacDonald's Restaurant, corner of
Mammoth Road and VFW Highway. Bring your copy
of Dr. Sax.
Sunday, 10 March
1996
2:00-4:00 PM "The Nashua Connection" Steve
Edington reads from his work in
progress on Kerouac's literary and
biographical association with Nashua, NH.
Barnes and Noble Bookstore, Daniel Webster
Highway, Nashua, NH.
Jack Kerouac was
born on March 12, 1922 in Lowell, Massachusetts to a
French-Canadian Catholic family. A prolific poet and novelist, he chronicled
his childhood years in Lowell, and the
adventures and experiences of
contemporaries as they traveled throughout he
US and the world. On the Road,
published in 1957, brought him immediate fame
, and Kerouac was acclaimed the
voice of the Beat Generation. The city of
Lowell and his experiences growing up
in the Franco-American community here are
central to Jack Kerouac's art and
writings. Five of his 11 novels are set in
Lowell, and the city is mentioned in
all of his books. Jack Kerouac remains one of
the most influential and
inspirational of American writers.These novels
are read and appreciated
throughout the world.
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc., a non-profit corporation, produces the Annual
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival held each
October in Lowell, MA. Our
mission is to encourage the study and
enjoyment of Jack Kerouac's art by
sharing the Lowell experience with visitors
and by educating local residents
about the influence of Jack Kerouac on modern
American culture and literature.
The 9th Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival will be held
October 1996.
Planning for this year's festival has already
begun. The Festival committee
meets the third Thursday of each month at 7:00
PM in the Pollard Memorial
Library in Lowell. We need lots of help.
Membership is open to anyone
interested in working to celebrate the joyful
spirit of Jack Kerouac. For
information on membership, activities and
meeting dates, write Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Box 1111, Lowell, MA
01853, call 508-458-1721, or email
mhemenway@igc.apc.org.
***END***
Prepared 19
February 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 08:48:49 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Kerouac Birthday
Comments: To:
brooklyn@netcom.com, schorr@world.std.com, event@globe.com,
noweek@globe.com, living@globe.com,
klmcomm@aol.com,
heraldedit@delphi.com,
71632.63@compuserve.com, mnews@world.std.com,
radio@csps.com, news@baywindows.com,
wbcn104fm@aol.com
LOWELL CELEBRATES
JACK KEROUAC'S BIRTHDAY
LOWELL, MA. Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! will celebrate
the birthday of
American author
Jack Kerouac with events in Lowell, MA and Nashua, NH on
March 9 and 10,
1996..
<<Saturday,
9 March 1996>>
4:00 PM
Commemorative Reading at Kerouac Park (Corner of Bridge and French
Streets, Lowell,
MA) Bring your favorite passage and join in.
6:00 PM
"Poems of the Night" a guided tour of Kerouac sites along the
Merrimack River.
Tour begins at the Pawtuckeville MacDonald's Restaurant,
corner of Mammoth
Road and VFW Highway. Bring your copy of Dr. Sax.
>>Sunday,
10 March 1996>>
2:00-4:00 PM "The Nashua Connection" Steve
Edington reads from his work
in progress on
Kerouac's literary and biographical association with
Nashua, NH.
Barnes and Noble Bookstore, Daniel Webster Highway, Nashua,
NH.
Press Release
Attached.
For more
information call 508-458-1721, or email mhemenway@igc.apc.org.
Thanks,
Mark Hemenway
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, IncLowell Celebrates Kerouac!
P.O. Box 1111,
Lowell, MA 01853
PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE
RELEASE PRESS CONTACT: Mark Hemenway
(508)475-9090 or
(508)458-1721
PUBLIC
INQUIRIES: (508)458-1721
LOWELL EVENTS TO
CELEBRATE JACK KEROUAC BIRTHDAY
LOWELL, MA. Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! will celebrate
the birthday of
American author Jack Kerouac with events in
Lowell, MA and Nashua, NH on March
9 and 10, 1996.. The celebration will begin
with an informal commemorative
reading of his work at 4:00 PM, Saturday,
March 9, 1996 at Kerouac Park on the
corner of Bridge and French Streets in Lowell,
MA. A guided tour of Kerouac
sites along the Merrimack River will begin at
6:00 PM from the Pawtuckeville
MacDonald's Restaurant on the corner of
Mammoth Road and VFW Highway. Both
events will include readings of Kerouac's work
with an emphasis on his Lowell
novel, Dr. Sax. Participants should bring
copies of their favorite passages to
read aloud.
On Sunday, 10 March, from 2:00 to 4:00
PM at the Barnes & Noble Bookstore,
Daniel Webster Highway, Nashua, NH, Steve
Edington will read from his work in
progress on the history of the Kerouac family
in Nashua,
Jack Kerouac
Birthday Events are summarized as follows:
Saturday, 9 March
1996
4:00 PM
Commemorative Reading at Kerouac Park (Corner of Bridge and French
Streets, Lowell, MA) Bring your favorite passage
and join in.
6:00 PM
"Poems of the Night" a guided tour of Kerouac sites along the
Merrimack
River. Tour begins at the Pawtuckeville
MacDonald's Restaurant, corner of
Mammoth Road and VFW Highway. Bring your copy
of Dr. Sax.
Sunday, 10 March
1996
2:00-4:00 PM "The Nashua Connection" Steve
Edington reads from his work in
progress on Kerouac's literary and
biographical association with Nashua, NH.
Barnes and Noble Bookstore, Daniel Webster
Highway, Nashua, NH.
Jack Kerouac was
born on March 12, 1922 in Lowell, Massachusetts to a
French-Canadian Catholic family. A prolific poet and novelist, he chronicled
his childhood years in Lowell, and the
adventures and experiences of
contemporaries as they traveled throughout he
US and the world. On the Road,
published in 1957, brought him immediate fame
, and Kerouac was acclaimed the
voice of the Beat Generation. The city of
Lowell and his experiences growing up
in the Franco-American community here are
central to Jack Kerouac's art and
writings. Five of his 11 novels are set in
Lowell, and the city is mentioned in
all of his books. Jack Kerouac remains one of
the most influential and
inspirational of American writers.These novels
are read and appreciated
throughout the world.
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc., a non-profit corporation, produces the Annual
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival held each
October in Lowell, MA. Our
mission is to encourage the study and
enjoyment of Jack Kerouac's art by
sharing the Lowell experience with visitors
and by educating local residents
about the influence of Jack Kerouac on modern
American culture and literature.
The 9th Annual
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival will be held October 1996.
Planning for this year's festival has already
begun. The Festival committee
meets the third Thursday of each month at 7:00
PM in the Pollard Memorial
Library in Lowell. We need lots of help.
Membership is open to anyone
interested in working to celebrate the joyful
spirit of Jack Kerouac. For
information on membership, activities and
meeting dates, write Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Box 1111, Lowell, MA
01853, call 508-458-1721, or email
mhemenway@igc.apc.org.
***END***
Prepared 19
February 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 14:08:03 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: Kerouac...an obnoxious fellow?
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.uucp>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.960213142555.96138A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>
Hi folks,
I`m new to the
list (as I am to all this computer and internet stuff) and
I`m from Germany,
so please forgive me for having a bad English.
Well, since I
admire Kerouac very much I`m kind of annoyed that he was an
asshole. Could it
be that he became like this very late in his life
because he could
not bear his succes and his being looked upon an
established
writer by the "high society"?
Mit freundlichem
Gruss (means something like Sincerely)
Moritz Rossbach
eMail
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
On Tue, 13 Feb
1996, Noah Bergman wrote:
> I seem to
remember reading something Ann Charters wrote about visiting
> Kerouacvery
late in his life and how he kept insuating that he wanted to
> have sex
with her before she left. (please
forgive me if this is wrong.
> I read a lot
of stuff and I could have made a mistake).
Descriptions of
> telephone
conversations he had with Carolyn Cassidy later on also point
> to his being
a general asshole. But man, his writing
more than
> compensates
for a poor personality!
> Also...does
anyone know where I can find a written version of Kerouac's
>
"origins of bop" essay. I've
heard his reading of it and would really
> love to have
a transcription.
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
> I saw the best minds of my generation
destroyed by madness...
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
> Noah Bergman
>
x95vyk@juliet.stfx.ca
> Box 730 St. FXU
> Antigonish, Nova
Scotia
> B2G 2X1
> (902) 867-2517
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 14:55:09 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Leo Jilk
<leo.august.jilk@SPARKY.MPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kerouac...an obnoxious fellow?
>Hi folks,
>I`m new to
the list (as I am to all this computer and internet stuff) and
>I`m from
Germany, so please forgive me for having a bad English.
>Well, since I
admire Kerouac very much I`m kind of annoyed that he was an
>asshole.
Could it be that he became like this very late in his life
>because he
could not bear his succes and his being looked upon an
>established
writer by the "high society"?
Personally, I say
Kerouac was what he was. We should
admire him for his
writing and his
intellingence, his insight. I have heard
he was
conservative, he
was always bothering Ginsberg about his being a Jew. Some
of the reputation
he has as an asswhole is no doubt due to his drinking,
his inability to
handle fame.
Other great writers have also had flaws
in their personality.
Faulkner, for
example has always been criticized for his racism, use of the
word
"nigger" is his books. College
students would drive dy his house and
yell "Hey
Faulkner. Say something!" He was invariably drunk and would
urinate in front
of them. But writers are also people;
influenced by their
upbringing, their
religion, experiences.
--LJ
"The whole
problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of
themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russel
"Time is an
illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
--Douglas Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 16:20:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>On Mon, 12
Feb 1996, Ritter, Chris D wrote:
>> Kerouac,
No; Ginsberg, Yes, and struggling.
>
>how is
Ginsberg struggling?
As far as I know
he's been recovering from some non-serious
physical ailments
here recently.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 16:20:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Burroughs elsewhere in music
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
I've also heard
that he covered an R.E.M. tune-- Star Me Kitten,
for an episode
of The X Files.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 16:32:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs-Priest
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>In tune with
all the priest stuff -
>
>Wasn't Bill's
character in _Drugstore Cowboy_ a junkie priest?
Yes, ex-junkie..
but that's knit-picking.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 16:58:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs-Priest (fwd)
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Anyone catch
Bill's appearance in Van Sant's Even Cowgirls Get the Blues,
>or the aids
awareness movie 'And the Band Played On', both fairly recent
>films.........
He had a what? 30
sec appearance in Even Cowgirls? I never did get to
finish The Band
though, I was watching it with a queer friend of mine that
was so in a knot
about the movie we had to turn it off to shut him up...
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 16:58:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: WSB Roswell Opera
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Anyone heard
more details about the project Bill was involved with
>concerning
the Roswell 47 UFO crash? Apparently, according to Miles biog
>it was to be
an opera. I know that Bill was involved with the Black Rider
>project with,
I think, the same people who were working on this Roswell
>opera......There
is mentioned in Miles a lot of stuff that Bill was
>working on
around 91/92 what ever became of this?
Apparently the
idea is still in the works, but as far as I know there's
nothing
in the way of
completion.
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:00:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>I just wanted
to clarify something. What are the
limits to discussion on
>this list? I made an offhand comment about my own
generation and was
>chastised for
it. It seems to me that in keeping with
the beat spirit,
>discussions
on just about anything should go. I
agree that in keeping
>with the
nature of the list they should pertain to the beat generation in
>some way, but
c'mon now. If there are further limits
to what can and
>can't be
discussed on this list I would appreciate someone telling me.
I believe this is
the eleventh hundred time I've seen this question come
up and due to the
fact that I was one of the primary advocators of the
GenX discussion
when it was in full bloom I figured it necessary for me
to start up a
listserv for this and other topics that I've had elsewhere
that
others have felt
would do better elsewhere.
If there is
anyone interested in a listserv committed to avant-garde
literature, film,
drama, and art in general.. the philosophies behind them
and where they
are taking us in the future, please contact me personally.
It isn't up and
running yet, but it would be nice to see who is even
possibly
interested in
this from the list.
Oh, and
postmodern and/or GenX the list will consider to be avant-garde.
[smile]
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:04:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>> I've
heard that Kerouac made recordings of himself reading prose and
poetry
>> (well i
know he did from Visions of Cody). Is it possible to buy these or
are
>> they
available. I have a recent song where Jk's reading is backed by
hip-hop
>> /jazz
music dunno who dunnit though. Anybody with info on these?....v.
>there's box
set....called "the beat generation"
>check out a
good music store....i've seen it everywhere.
I just acquired
the Kerouac box set a few days ago. The second CD is a
collection of
hakius w/ a jazz back-up. I've always had trouble writing and
listening to
someone else read.. really fucks w/ the psyche, but for those
of
you who are
looking for some excellent music just to listen to, this entire
CD is a lot more
than simple readings, the music is very very good, at least
a good
accompaniment.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:04:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Are you young
folks averse to books? Are they considered un-hip? What
gives?
>
>Louis Proyect
Consider this a
list phase. [smile]
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:10:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: wsb and black rider
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>the black
rider is an album by tom waits and burroughs appears on a couple
of
>tracks,
they're very good.If waits is doing the roswell opera it should
prove
>interesting.Waits'
earlier work is influenced by the beats and well worth
>checking out
esp. closing time, the heart of saturday night and blue
valentine.
Wait's appears
twice on the Beat Generation box set.
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:10:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: jk recordings
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>What is the
fascination with style? What is the fascination with
>rock-and-roll,
MTV, poetry readings that seem to be set up for a Gap
>commercial? I
simply don't understand the bohemian culture of today. It
>seems to owe
a superficial allegiance to beat culture of the 1950s, but
>doesn't seem
to be anywhere as intellectual or literary.
>
>So, sorry to
appear rude, censorious or insensitive. I am simply putting
>questions
forward in my own blunt style.
>
>
>Louis Proyect
Louis, I'd
absolutely love to answer your question in detail, being that as
a writer
influenced by these trends, a "researcher" interested in the
details,
and a member of
the class myself, I've been following these trends and
have come up with
some theories on my own. Unfortunately this isn't
the proper place
to do so. If you are interested you can contact me
personally
w/ this or-- a
better idea-- wait until I get my ass in gear and get the
listserv up
and running then
we can all trash my generation and discuss how dissimilar
they are to the
Beats and how like we are to the Lost generation.
...Critter (Critter@mail.serve.com)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:16:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: jk recordings (fwd)
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Find yourself
some real bohemians and they are just as intellectual as the
>best of the
50's and 60's. I'd wager to say that the
intellectuals of
>today are
much more aware than their predecessors, they have to be.
Most of the
'bohemians' that I associate w/ [love kicking aroud that word
like that] are
indeed very much part of the conscience, either globally,
artistically,
economically, intellectually, politically, or what have you.
It's
a necessity to be
able to prove yourself when you are viewed as radical
or bohemian. The
slam on the frat boys and girls was valid. You ask them
the purpose
behind their nose ring and they'll have no answer for you. If
you ask the same
of a true 'bohemian' I can guarantee you'll receive a
philosophy that
sounds something like a Dharmic Sadism.
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:16:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: the list
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Will all of
you stop being so fucking sensitive. No, don't go away just
>because an
old buzzard like myself badmouths Gap commercials.
>
>Louis Proyect
I'm sorry..
normally it annoys me when people respond back w/ a
message that says
nothing, and I'll admit, this reply said little more
than "Right
On!" Man, I couldn't help but laugh when I read this!
Welcome on,
Louis! [smile]
...Critter
of X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:21:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher <Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: jk recordings
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
>I just wanted
to clarify something. What are the
limits to discussion on
>this
list? I made an offhand comment about my
own generation and was
>chastised for
it. It seems to me that in keeping with
the beat spirit,
>discussions
on just about anything should go. I
agree that in keeping
>with the
nature of the list they should pertain to the beat generation in
>some way, but
c'mon now. If there are further limits
to what can and
>can't be
discussed on this list I would appreciate someone telling me.
I believe this is
the eleventh hundred time I've seen this question come
up and due to the
fact that I was one of the primary advocators of the
GenX discussion
when it was in full bloom I figured it necessary for me
to start up a
listserv for this and other topics that I've had elsewhere
that
others have felt
would do better elsewhere.
If there is
anyone interested in a listserv committed to avant-garde
literature, film,
drama, and art in general.. the philosophies behind them
and where they
are taking us in the future, please contact me personally.
It isn't up and
running yet, but it would be nice to see who is even
possibly
interested in
this from the list.
Oh, and
postmodern and/or GenX the list will consider to be avant-garde.
[smile]
...Critter
I would be
interested in such a list. Is the individual asking this
question the
owner of the beat list? Would this proposed list allow
discussion of any
post beat writings? How about beat contemporaries
like Philip K.
Dick and Jim Thompson or is that too much of a reach?
What kind of list
would a young Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, et. al. use?
How about a list
for creative writers, rather than scholars and fans.
"Make it
new."
-Ezra
Pound, I think
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:07:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Books
In a message
dated 96-02-15 13:00:57 EST, you write:
>How many
people out there have read any books by the Beats besides On the
>Road or Naked
Lunch?
>
>
I haven't but
that doesn't mean that I won't, I just got into the Beats, so I
believe that I
will be reading much more of the books by the Beats
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:07:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
In a message
dated 96-02-15 13:10:12 EST, you write:
>"All
those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it.
>
>
I could believe
it. They may seem dull to strangers and
people who weren't
close to them,
but I also agree, I think burroughs
would make the best
grandfather.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:08:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: fucked up on rugs
In a message
dated 96-02-16 11:49:24 EST, you write:
>The same goes
for NAKED LUNCH--a sober WSB just
>couldn't have
written it.
I remember seeing
something on bravo (TVstation) about
burroughs where he
said that if it
weren't for drugs, Naked Lunch would never been written.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:08:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beats exhibit
In a message
dated 96-02-17 16:20:46 EST, you write:
>The Beat
exhibit at the Whitney in NYC is over now.
It will open in
>Minneapolis
again in late spring.
>
>Howard Park
>
>
Any speciffic
info? dates? where in Mpls?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 19:01:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: The Avant-Liste
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
I forgot to list
my address, which would be helpful I suppose.
Critter:
(Critter@mail.serve.com)
>I would be
interested in such a list. Is the individual asking this
>question the
owner of the beat list?
No.
>Would this
proposed list allow
>discussion of
any post beat writings? How about beat contemporaries
>like Philip
K. Dick and Jim Thompson or is that too much of a reach?
The proposed list
(which is a wonderful way to put it) is setting out
mainly to find
the roots of avant-garde in art and attempt to follow the
patterns into the
"next movement." While the form will be fairly open
in the discussion
of avant-garde art, the focus will primarily be upon
movements or
artists which can be considered revolutionary or
anti-artists.
Dadaism, Pop Art, Sub-Pop, Postmodernism, Beat, et al.
>What kind of
list would a young Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, et. al. use?
Well, I can say
that anyone interested in working on their own ideas
and passing them
around the table w/ others that are interested in
breaking up the
ground on which the arts stand upon will find a sure
place for them to
do so. If your young JK or AG sees that bitter stagnation
rising up again
in that which we call art, then hopefully this proposed
list will be the
place to do such a thing.
>How about a
list for creative writers, rather than scholars and fans.
I'll tell ya that
first off I'd like to include the practice in w/ the
theory. I
appreciate
this list that
much more when I get to read a clip from the article or the
book
which the person
is talking about which I may not have read. Not only does
it
clue me into
their meaning, but also it entertains much more than a
collection of
anti-GenX replys.
If the sharing starts to flood the list with too much
material then
some other means
will have to be met. At this time I see the sharing being
done for a
purpose. If someone wrote a catchy little ditty that they think
would
make a cute love
song, then it has no place on the list. If it meets with
the ideas
of avant-garde
and what not, then it does have a place in the list.
> "Make it
new."
> -Ezra Pound, I think
I hope that was
clear enough, I tend to babble.
...Critter (Critter@mail.serve.com)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 20:55:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Noah Bergman
<x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
<960221180748_428349627@emout06.mail.aol.com>
On Wed, 21 Feb
1996, Carl Luoma wrote:
> In a message
dated 96-02-15 13:10:12 EST, you write:
>
>
>"All those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe
it.
> >
> >
>
> I could
believe it. They may seem dull to
strangers and people who weren't
> close to
them, but I also agree, I think
burroughs would make the best
> grandfather.
>
Visits to grandpa's house would just
fuck you up :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 21:43:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Subject: On the Road again...
I am going out to
San Francisco in about a month. I am interested in
suggestions of
beat-related places (besides City Lights) to visit. Also good
used bookstores
and jazz clubs. I suggest you e-mail me directly to avoid
cluttering up
mailboxes of non-interested list members.
Thanks.
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 22:24:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road again...
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>I am going
out to San Francisco in about a month. I am interested in
>suggestions
of beat-related places (besides City Lights) to visit. Also
good
>used
bookstores and jazz clubs. I suggest you e-mail me directly to avoid
>cluttering up
mailboxes of non-interested list members.
>Thanks.
>Ben
Actually I plan
on doing this myself one day and I wouldn't mind a copy
myself. You can
post it here since it really does sound like an interesting
conversation, or
just double-mail it to Ben and I.
..Critter
(Critter@mail.serve.com)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 22:35:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl Luoma <Filosipher@AOL.COM>
6-02-21 16:33:29
EST, you write:
>>In tune
with all the priest stuff -
>>
>>Wasn't Bill's
character in _Drugstore Cowboy_ a junkie priest?
>
>Yes,
ex-junkie.. but that's knit-picking.
>
>
actually he was
an ex-junkie that tended to go off the wagon from time to
time.
But that's
knit-picking
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 20:55:37 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas McNamee <mcnamet@EOSC.OSSHE.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road again...
In-Reply-To:
<960221214343_228153477@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "Ben
Moore" at
Feb 21, 96 09:43:48 pm
Ah! The Hotel Du Midi, the San Remo, Coit Tower,
anywhere in North Beach
(the old town
bars), Chinatown, watch out for the ghosts.
pleasant trails
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 11:02:50 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)
>On Wed, 21
Feb 1996, Carl Luoma wrote:
>
>> In a
message dated 96-02-15 13:10:12 EST, you write:
>>
>>
>"All those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe
it.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I could
believe it. They may seem dull to
strangers and people who weren't
>> close to
them, but I also agree, I think burroughs
would make the best
>>
grandfather.
>>
> Visits to grandpa's house would just
fuck you up :)
>
If you want to
read about this sort of stuff, try a book by Grandpa Bill's
son (also called
William confusingly). The book is called Kentucky Ham and
has a section
where Bill jnr. goes to see Bill snr. in Morocco. Obviously
the old man
introduces the kid to drugs... It's an interesting read, and
apparently
surprisingly good (I've only read an extract).
Alan Maddrell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:19:37 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mark Fisher <Fisher@PROGRAMART.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: On the Road again...
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
>I am going
out to San Francisco in about a month. I am interested in
>suggestions
of beat-related places (besides City Lights) to visit. Also
good
>used
bookstores and jazz clubs. I suggest you e-mail me directly to avoid
>cluttering up
mailboxes of non-interested list members.
>Thanks.
>Ben
Actually I plan
on doing this myself one day and I wouldn't mind a copy
myself. You can
post it here since it really does sound like an interesting
conversation, or
just double-mail it to Ben and I.
..Critter
(Critter@mail.serve.com)
Origins of the
Beat Generation has a map of SF with Beat landmarks.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 08:42:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: On the R again
At 8:55 PM
2/21/96, Thomas McNamee wrote:
>Ah! The Hotel Du Midi, the San Remo, Coit Tower,
anywhere in North Beach
>(the old town
bars), Chinatown, watch out for the ghosts.
pleasant trails
Hi...
Sounds like
fun.....but I have to report on a trip to NY I took two years
ago, traveled to
the Village, and sought the old haunts for that crazy
Columbia crowd of
the late '40s and early '50s....
I walked into a
coffeehouse (my ancient memory pan hasn't retained the name
of the place, I
want to say San Remo's, but, no....) where AG reportedly
wrote most of
_Howl_ and Jackie held court with Holmes and Bill,
etc.,......and I
found this fashionable boutique-y place with gourmet
coffee....totally
90s decor.....
I had expected
photos on the wall (Hey, the White Horse on the West Side
still has photos
of Dylan Thomas on the wall....of course, he died in an
alley, victim of a
spent liver, behind the place, so there ya' go)....but,
anyway, there was
not even a shred of any evidence that, well, hell,
anything had been
written in this antiseptic place in the Village.....
Anyway, this
innocent, fresh-faced young lady asked if I'd like to be
seated and I
said: "Is this the place where Kerouac and Ginsberg wrote most
of their
stuff"....and she, of the frozen smile, said: "Huh?"
I excused myself
and walked out....
Be careful...you
can't go back, at least not in the Village, at least not
some places....
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
<<Nunc
senex, ad hunc demens>>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:51:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Hey Critter, what
do you do - check your mail once a month?
No offense
intended.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 14:28:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Burroughs elsewhere in music (fwd)
I've also heard
that he covered an R.E.M. tune-- Star Me Kitten,
for an episode
of The X Files.
..Critter
Critter
You wouldn't
happen to know which episode this is would you? Most bizarre!
from a fellow
Bill fan
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 12:55:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: beats exhibit
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:08:13 -0500
from
<Filosipher@AOL.COM>
On Wed, 21 Feb
1996 18:08:13 -0500 Carl Luoma said:
>In a message
dated 96-02-17 16:20:46 EST, you write:
>
>>The Beat
exhibit at the Whitney in NYC is over now.
It will open in
>>Minneapolis
again in late spring.
>>
>>Howard
Park
>>
>>
>
>Any speciffic
info? dates? where in Mpls?
Okay, here's the
Beat exhibit dates: Walker Art Center,
Minneapolis June 2 - S
ept 15, 1996; M.H.
de Young Memorial Museum, The Fine Arts Museums of San Franc
isco, Oct 5 -
Dec. 29, 1996. And don't forget the
Rebels and Poets exhibit on
now at the
National Portrait Gallery in DC.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:02:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>>>In
tune with all the priest stuff -
>>>
>>>Wasn't
Bill's character in _Drugstore Cowboy_ a junkie priest?
>>
>>Yes,
ex-junkie.. but that's knit-picking.
>>
>>
>
>actually he
was an ex-junkie that tended to go off the wagon from time to
>time.
>But that's
knit-picking
I sitting here
laughing and wondering what even SMALLER fact I
can touche with.
Unfortunately I was too involved w/ the little hats
flying around on
the screen to pay that much attention to what WSBs
habits had
changed to.
I do remember him
picking up that paper sack of drugs though and
retiring to his
apartment, so you've got me there. Touche!
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 17:27:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: No offense received.
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Hey Critter,
what do you do - check your mail once a month?
It would look
like that. Actually my lack of depth in Beat knowledge
makes me more of
a lurker than an actual responder. It just so happened
that the topics
for "this month" rolled down my alley. [smile]
>No offense
intended.
...Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 17:36:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher C. Hayes"
<risny@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: On the R again
The baton has
been passed -- some time ago -- from hipsters to tourists in
many places in
the west village. The White Horse tavern
has become a meat
market for the
young and... lets just say anxious.
However there are
many places in the village, especially the East village,
which are
reminecent, while not fawning, over beat culture. One just has to
know were to
look.
Damien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 18:54:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs elsewhere in music (fwd)
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Critter
>
>You wouldn't
happen to know which episode this is would you? Most bizarre!
>
>from a fellow
Bill fan
>
>Daniel
Not off the top
of my head, unfortunately. I'm not to up-to-date on the X
Files
simply because my
time doesn't permit this. If I find out I'll get back to
you
on it, though.
..Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 19:28:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Subject: Contact
I am interested
in learning a bit about a SF (I believe) journal called
Contact. What was
the connection (if any) to Beat literature? Also, what
would be a fair
price to pay for an individual issue from the late 50's?
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:27:46 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@UBC"
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Rebels: Painters and Poet of the 1950s
The National
Gallery exhibit doesn't actually open until the 24th...
Subject:
http://www.si.edu/organiza/museums/portgal/homepage/calendar.htm
> Welcome to
the National Portrait Gallery
>
>
> NATIONAL
PORTRAIT GALLERY EXHIBITION POSTPONED
>
> Because of
delays caused by the federal government shutdown in
> December,
the public opening for the Smithsonian's National Portrait
> Gallery
exhibition "Rebels: Painters and Poets of the 1950s" has
> been
changed.
>
> The
exhibition will open Saturday, Feb. 24. (The exhibition had been
> scheduled to
open Jan. 26.)
>
>
"Rebels: Painters and Poets of the 1950s" examines the revolutions
> in painting
and poetry that took place on the East and West Coasts
> following
World War II. The "Poets" section includes such
>
counterculture icons as Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, Lawrence
> Ferlinghetti
and William Burroughs. The "Painters" section examines
> the lives
and work of Jackson Pollock, Willem and Elaine de Kooning,
> Robert
Motherwell and other artists of the New York School.
>
> The National
Portrait Gallery is located at 8th and F Streets N.W.
> Hours are
from 10 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. daily. Admission is free. The
> exhibition
is on the first floor.
>
Regards,
bs@UBC
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 19:53:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat bookworm
Regarding recent
postings over reading beat literature vs. tapes, CDs and
videos, etc. I
would like to comment that it was hearing Kerouac read his
stuff on The Jack
Kerouac Collection was what really FIRSTexcited me about
beat literature.
I greatly
treasure the various audio recordings I have of Kerouac, Ginsberg,
and Burroughs
reading their writings. Whenever I listen to them, the
literature is so
much more powerful and meaningful to me and I know the oral
tradition is a
major component especially of both Kerouac's and Ginsberg's
writing. I can't
imagine just being a " beat bookworm" and only reading the
literature.
Reading alone doesn't seem to cover everything it was about.
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 17:46:00 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gilbert, Len"
<lgilbert@INTEGRALSYS.COM>
Subject: Feud?
I read two
interesting pieces on the Web, one by Jan Kerouac one by Gerald
Nicosia, about a
little perceived or actual disrespect. Implications of
"camps"
with Ann Charters, Ginsberg, and Sampras on one side and Nicosia,
Kerouac, and a
few others on the other side.
Total gossip?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 05:55:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: ah pook
hello.
wsb wrote a poem
called 'ah pook' (from - 'the invaders?' - which he read on
'call me
burroughs?')
anyyyyywayy...
was at a friends
last night and he put on this animation video which included an
animation to this
poem!
bill reading out
'death is the seed from which i will grow etc.' over the top of
this animation
was absolutely brilliant. it really
captured the poem.
anyone else seen
it? if so what do you think?
anyone know more
about it?
have any other
animations been set to any other beat poems?
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:23:26 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: ah pook
>bill reading
out 'death is the seed from which i will grow etc.' over the
top of
>this
animation was absolutely brilliant. it
really captured the poem.
>
>anyone else
seen it? if so what do you think?
_Much_ to my
chagrin, I arrived home (in England) one evening, turned on the
TV and heard the
old faggot's dulcet tones. I immediately snapped wide awake
and focussed, but
I saw only the last minute of this treasure. Did I see a
beetle, or am I
mistaken (this is possible since I was playing Gregor Samsa
in Berkoff's play
adaptation of Kafka's Metamorphosis at the time...).
Alan Maddrell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 14:27:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: ah pook (fwd)
was at a friends
last night and he put on this animation video which included an
animation to this
poem!
anyone know more
about it?
Yes indeed, what
is this video called, come on people rack them memories....
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:32:57 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Beat bookworm (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Whenever
I listen to them, the
literature is so
much more powerful and meaningful to me and I know the oral
tradition is a
major component especially of both Kerouac's and Ginsberg's
writing. I can't
imagine just being a " beat bookworm" and only reading the
literature.
Reading alone doesn't seem to cover everything it was about.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I have been
one of those who tries to get this going to the books, I
have to concede
defeat here. One the aspects that truely
sets the Beats
apart from other
poets of the period is the auditory character of their
work (the
attempted recreation of jazz improvization specifically) and
this is seen best
through their own recitations. I guess
we all remember
that it was the
Six Gallery reading that took off the movement.
The
readings were so
important - you are correct here.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 14:04:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Resent-From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Comments: Originally-From: "Dan Schiff"
<dschiff@sybex.com>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization:
Sybex Inc.
Subject: Joyce stolen photo alert!
Thought I'd
forward this note from the James Joyce listserv. Literary larceny
afoot at Cafe
Vesuvio. Is City Lights safe?
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
This just in.From
the bottom of Herb Caen's column in The San
Francisco
Chronicle, Thursday Feb 22nd:
"On Sun.
night, "two yuppies" as the waitress described them, stole
the hallowed
framed photo of James Joyce that has hung in Vesuvio
since 1948. $500
reward..."
Be on your toes
for suspicious looking yuppies with old photos.
Or without them,
for that matter. If you have any hot
leads, the
Vesuvio Cafe is
located on 255 Columbus in S.F. and the phone
is (415)
362-3370.
Your watchdog in
Berkeley CA
Dan Schiff
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 13:23:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Uncle Bill
At 9:28 AM
2/22/96, M D Fascione wrote:
>I've also
heard that he covered an R.E.M. tune-- Star Me Kitten,
>for an
episode of The X Files.
>
> ..Critter
I'm new to this
list, so this may have been mentioned earlier, but, in the
used racks at a
vintage record store in St. Louis, I've seen a Laurie
Anderson (oh, she
of the
performance-art-let's-make-this-as-obscurely-weird-as-I-can)
album from the
early 1980s, I
believe, that features Uncle Bill.
Although I'm
fascinated by Anderson, I was flat broke at the time and
couldn't pick it
up....when I went back a few weeks later, it was
gone....The album
jacket was fairly third stream, so I guess it lives up to
Anderson
form.....
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
"The doctors
X-rayed my head and found nothing."
-- Dizzy Dean
explaining how he felt after being hit
on the head by a
ball in the 1934 World Series
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 14:25:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Rebel Poets
Howard Park and I
are over half way through the 8 week class on Rebel Poets
of the 1950s,
which is being taught in conjunction with the exhibit by the
same name that
people have mentioned. For the last class we are going to
get a personal
tour of the exhibit from one of the museum curators. I can't
speak for Howard
but I am enjoying the class. The
attendance has dwindled
somewhat and I
get the feeling that people have had less exposure to the
poets we are now
studying -- Black Mountain -- than to the others, but that
is probably to be
expected since the Beats tended to be the super stars.
By the way has
anyone experienced the CR-Rom narrated by Burroughs entitled
"The Dark
Eye?" I have a new computer with a
CD-Rom drive so I have been
looking for
interesting titles but hadn't read a review of that one so didn't
pick it up --
several Poe stories put to a game format I presume. I have
Myst which is
interesting, but would prefer something with more of a literary
flavor.
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 19:56:48 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Uncle Bill
I believe the
album you're thinking of is *You're the Guy I Want to Share My
Money With."
It is on CD from Giorno Poetry Systems(1981). It has sections by
Burroughs,
Anderson and John Giorno. Also this reminds me of seeing Burroughs
in Anderson's
movie, *Home of the Brave*.
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 19:38:25 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Beat bookworm
But it's not an
either/or thing, it's both/and -- the books and recordings go
hand in hand.
Art, literature, music -- it's all connected.
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 20:11:01 GMT
Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Barth
<Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>
Organization:
Redwood Free-Net
Subject: Kerouac Dream
Last night I had a dream with Kerouac in it.
We were at a party and I wanted
to talk with him
but he was drunk and sullen. Finally he said if I would go
out and get him
some more beer he would talk with me. So my 8-year-old son
and I went out to
get the beer. For some reason I let my son handle the
transaction and
he bought only one bottle of beer and two gatorades. (We were
in Mexico or
"someplace" where there was no problem about a kid buying beer.)
When we got back
Kerouac was not happy about only one beer but decided he
would mix the
gatorade with vodka. He still didn't want to talk but then I
leaned by the
doorway (the holy doorway?) and heard him talking to another
guy. He was very
gentle and sympathetic. The drunkenness and sullenness had
all been an act.
His voice was beautiful, way more gentle and sympathetic
than on the
recordings I've heard. Can't remember exactly what he said (too
bad) but it was a
wonderful flow of words.
So just another
crazy Kerouacian dream. I have been rereading *Dr. Sax*.
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 15:10:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CLAY VAUGHAN
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Uncle Bill
Comments: To:
"Gregory J. Conroy" <gconroy@SIUE.EDU>,
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@oduvm.cc.odu.edu>
> I'm new to
this list, so this may have been mentioned earlier, but, in the
> used racks
at a vintage record store in St. Louis, I've seen a Laurie
> Anderson
(oh, she of the
>
performance-art-let's-make-this-as-obscurely-weird-as-I-can) album from the
> early 1980s,
I believe, that features Uncle Bill.
It was probably YOU'RE THE GUY I WANT TO
SHARE MY MONEY WITH,
the trio of
Laurie Anderson, Bill Burroughs and John Giorno. It's a
great set.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 14:22:37 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@UBC"
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: Uncle Bill
In-Reply-To: <1EC8C7B4A47@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
On Fri, 23 Feb
1996, CLAY VAUGHAN wrote:
> > I'm new
to this list, so this may have been mentioned earlier, but, in the
> > used
racks at a vintage record store in St. Louis, I've seen a Laurie
> >
Anderson (oh, she of the
> >
performance-art-let's-make-this-as-obscurely-weird-as-I-can) album from the
> > early
1980s, I believe, that features Uncle Bill.
>
> It was probably YOU'RE THE GUY I WANT TO
SHARE MY MONEY WITH,
> the trio of
Laurie Anderson, Bill Burroughs and John Giorno. It's a
> great set.
>
Isn't it more
likely to be "Mister Heartbreak", since the original
poster
specifically says it's a Laurie Anderson album. It was released
in 1984, and
features Bill B. on "Sharkey's Night".
BTW, there are
many other John Giorno Poetry Systems records out there.
For a WSB
discography, check
http://www.hyperreal.com/wsb/wsbrecs.html
or mail me for a
copy if you're web-impaired....
Regards,
Bent Sorensen
Visiting Grad.
Student, Dept. of English, UBC
Ph.D. Student,
Aalborg University, Denmark
<http://hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.dk>
OR <.../bent.uk>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 20:34:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ta' wil and Burroughs Dream
I am digging
mightily people's previously posted dream encounters with brief
writers. To me,
they are worth as much or more than a conscious
opinion (in a
slightly different way, of course). There is a school of dream
interpretation
(and poetics) that draws much from the concept of ta'wil:
which as far as
my present understanding goes, means to take a dream symbol
or character back to its mythological source . For
instance, if I dream of
my friend, I am
not dreaming of my friend but of Hades (say) masquerading,
for the dream's
purposes, as my friend. I bring this up
because I wonder
what entities
might choose to represent themselves by the beat writers.
Cassady surely
Mercury... got any ideas?
Anyhoo, here's a
dream I had about Burroughs several years ago.
I was sitting by
a roadside, painting a picture using heavy impasto and
pallette knives.
Up strolls Burroughs, as he looked then in real life. He
checks out the
painting then goes on down the road. I am so startled I drop
my painting. Just
like the proverbial peanut butter
sandwich, it lands gooey
side down. Its ruined. So I start building up a head of
steam about
Burroughs ruining
my painting. I decide to confront him about it. My
enquiries lead me
to a cabana at rundown motel at the edge of town.
I knock on his
door. Burroughs answers all right, but instead of the older
Burroughs it's
the man as he looked in the 50's. He's wearing a sleeveless
undershirt and
baggy pants. So I'm completely disarmed and forget about being
mad, because this
younger Burroughs could not have ruined my painting. He
asks me what I
want and I ask him if we can talk about writing. We sit down
at this old beat
picnic table and talk casually about it
for what seems
like a long time.
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 22:18:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ta' wil and Burroughs Dream
In a message
dated 96-02-23 20:58:06 EST, I write:
> am digging
mightily people's previously posted dream encounters with >brief
writers...
hmm...I wouldn't
touch this freudian slip with any size pole. though maybe it
just stems from
my reading more poetry than prose these days...
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 22:50:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Contact
Several CONTACTS
in the past. Fabled one from Paris in
'30s. The one you
have was from
Sausalito. Ed. Evan S. Connell (Mrs. Bridge, Morning Star).
Not that much Beat stuff compared to others
such as Evergreen Review, Big
Table or Floating
Bear. Don't know abt current prices.
yrs
Dan Lauffer
<<I'm with
you in Rockland>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 19:09:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: Nowheresville
Nowheresville- a
Beat-oriented comic from CALIBER is
beginning a 4 issue
mini-series. The
comic features Chic and Queeg, who writer Mark Ricketts
describes as
being the thoughtful (Jack) and prankster (Neal) side of the
Beats. They are involved with Chic's former lover
"Catherine DiPrima" who
may have framed
Chic for a murder. The first issue
captured the look and
feel of the 50's
and 60's from berets and bongos to jazz record covers.
You'll have to go to a comic store to order
it. A rarified taste for the
superhero crowd.
Recommended.
Dan Lauffer
<<I'm with
you in Rockland>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 19:50:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas J Stevens
<teij@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: An afterthought... (fwd)
Thom
---------------------------------
There is nothing
more
innately human
than the tendency
to transmute what has become
customary
into what has been
divinely ordained.
-Suzanne Lafollette
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb
1996 09:30:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Linda
<REDTAPE@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
To: Thomas J
Stevens <teij@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: An
afterthought...
RE: the role of
the beatniks - you can take your pick, depending
on your
preference for music or poetry - that is a six of one,
half a dozen of
the other type choice as poetry and lyrics
in songs are not
that far apart. In music the beatniks of
the
1950s,
particularly in Greenich Village in New York began and
pursued
improvisational sound in rock - drawing on jazz
of course. In poetry and novels I am most familiar with
the
San Francisco
scene, Jack K, Lawrence Ferlinghetti . . . I still
have two of
Ferlinghetti's poetry volumes - A Coney Island of the
Mind and Starting
from San Francisco. As an active member
of the
"avant-guard"
literary community in San Francisco, he and many
others inititated
the new San Francisco cultural scene beginning in
the mid fo late
1950s. City LIghts bookstore became a
mecca for
folks into that
aspect of the cultural revolution. I do
recall
making my way
there - but not until the summer of 1971 when I was
working on a
tactile art exhibit, the Tactile Dome at the Exploratorium,
another aspect of
the things coming down then. (The
Tactile Dome
I built to last a
year - and such a good construction engineer was
I that it is
still in operation today. YES. Not to brag, just to
recall some experiences
that help me develop confidence in myself.)
That same San
Francisco scene later gave birth to significant
music groups, my
favorite, the Jefferson Airplane, and the Grateful
Dead - are you a
Dead Head? And of course in the mid to
late 60s
San Francisco
became the west coast center for the Flower Children,
"free
sex" in the post birth control pill era before we knew sex
could be deadly,
and all sorts of drug culture stuff - grass, acid,
hash, and speed
(KILLS).
Complimenting and
building on the City Lights scene of the 1950s,
UC Berkeley,
across the Bay, became THE center of what was known as
the Free Speech
movement, the first of the major college campus
movements, long
preceding the anti war movement. The
Free Speech
movement, which I
believe dates to 1961, countered (counter culture
come from that
word) contested the mores of the 1950s, bringing words
like fuck into
public rhetoric. As I understand it,
using the word
fuck in public
could get one arrested! Anyway, that
movement merged
as the issues
changed from free speech to antiwar. And
Berkeley was
a major site of
the west coast antiwar movement. By the
mid to late
sixties because
of less than peaceful demonstrations in Berkeley
and along the
main drag - Telegraph Avenue - "establishment"
institutions,
such as the Bank of America, bricked up all the
street front
windows so they wouldn't be broken again.
That added
to a "siege
mentality" mood and to the increasing "generation gap."
Now, as for
researcing on the internet, if you have access to NETSCAPE,
you can to some
keyword searching. Probably the best
driver would
be through
LYCOS. I don't know how sophisticated
your library is,
ours is out on
the frontiers of all this stuff. This
week and next
I am having our
history bibliographer in the library introduce my
students to the
internet and how to use the various search engines.
We do three hands
on sessions. I don't have any
documentation on
all this, but I
will see what I might find and send you any http
or www sites that
I think might have some relevant material for
you. Likely, through some American Studies and
Popular Culture
stuff there will
be some pertinent material. Also, if
your
library has the
Humanities Index on CD-ROM you can search through
citations for
relevant articles in AS and PC journals.
There is
a lot of material
that has been written. I can't just pull
those
citations out of
my head, though, as I am a Mexican not US
historian. I'll see what I can come up with to get you started.
Later, dear,
LInda
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:29:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Herren
<NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Books
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 21 Feb 1996
18:07:46 -0500"
<960221180739_428349526@emout05.mail.aol.com>
Personally I am
sick of people slaming the young generation.
You don't know
our life and you
don't understand. But none of that
really matters. What
is important is
that you realize when you say something about the whole
population in
general you are making a fool of yourself.
>How many
people out there have read any books by the Beats besides On the
>Road or Naked
Lunch?
If a person has
not read the Beat Generation Stuff they ought to get the fuck
off this server
so people can really discuss the literature or they ought
to get a pair of
glasses and start reading something. It
ain't so hard.
What you do is
you sit down with a book and roll your eyes across the pages
being careful to
understand what the sentences mean. It's
not so hard. I
read Dharma Bums,
Subterraneans, Big Sur, Tristessa, On the Road, Off the Road,
Vanity of Dulouz,
Go, The First Third, Town and the City, Walden, etc etc
in three
months. So far I have yet to discuss any
of this stuff of the server
tho since
everyone is caught up in telling other people what to do instead
of arguing some
point.
And as far as to
the argument of why the Generation X (what ever the HELL
that ever means)
hasn't done anything, I would say it's because of these
DAMN FUCKING
COMPUTERS ALL THE OTHER GENERATIONS INVENTED!!
Nick.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:31:49 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dan Terkla
<terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Books
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.iwu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <01I1NZFVGVAC005YPB@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
First, let me say
that I agree with Nicholas Herren about the dangers of
typing a
generation. Such thinking can lead to
all sorts of nasty
outcomes and gets
none of us anywhere.
Second, let me
suggest that he back off, exercise a bit
of netiquette and
be a bit more accepting of those without his vast
knowledge of Beat
literature and culture. I, too, am often
disappointed
with the quality
of discussion on this list and with some of the topics
posted. I have a "delete" key, which I use
at those times. I suggest that
Nicholas Herren
do the same and save the self-righteous, petulant
flaming. It does nothing but foster division and
exclusion.
Dan Terkla
English House
Illinois Wesleyan
University
Bloominton, IL
61702
terkla@titan.iwu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:16:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Six Gallery Reading
It seems to me
that a very worthy tribute to beat literature and the
considerable, enduring social impact of beat culture would
be to make a
film, or launch a
theatrical production, of the famous Six Poets at the Six
Gallery reading
which took place just over 40 years ago in San Francisco. If
done right as a
film, this could be our Il Postino (only much more
significant, with
all due respect for that excellent film). Certainly, while
Allen Ginsberg,
McClure, Snyder and many other original participants are
still living,
such a project could benefit from their invaluable advice and
support. Does
anyone agree that this would be a most worthwile project to
launch? Perhaps
NYU would be a natural choice to get such project started,
or the State
University of New Nork at Buffalo - any thoughts?
Gary M. Gillman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:00:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ritter, Chris D"
<rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Books and Bantering
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>If a person
has not read the Beat Generation Stuff they ought to get the
fuck
>off this
server so people can really discuss the literature or they ought
>to get a pair
of glasses and start reading something.
Wow.. so much for
wanting to learn from others with similar interests.
Should we not
discuss the poetry since it wasn't on the list? I'm not much
of a novel
reader, most of my interests tend to side with poetry and
plays and I
haven't heard much about them either. Usually I blame that
on myself though
being that I haven't brought up the topic.
>Nick.
and now, back to
our show. Critter
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:31:26 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Brynjar Agnarsson <brynjar@EASYNET.CO.UK>
Subject: WSB CARTOON
Finally my cue to
make a contribution to this list, after being a subscriber
for close to
three weeks now, instead of just enjoying to read other's
people
contributions.
Recently someone
was asking about a cartoon of Ah Pook and I've been looking
for it which took
me a long time as I tape a lot of stuff like this of TV as
I'm a film
student in the hope that it'll come in useful one day.
Anyways, the said
cartoon was shown on Channel 4 in England as part of a
documentary on
the UK animation scene and was called Fourmations: 3D or not 3D.
There was an
interview with the fimmaker, Phil Hunt, beforehand and he was
talking about how
different reading Burroughs is from hearing el hombre
invisible reading
his works aloud, a mesmorising experience he called it.
Well it inspired
him to make this surreal piece of art with the soundtrack
of Burroughs
reading from Ah Pook and Interzone.
Brynjar
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:12:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Megan Milard
<Sixgallery@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gallery Six
the correct name
is six gallery. A lot of the confusion
is due to one of the
beats--and i
can't remember who off the top of my head--(I'm thinking
kerouac) who
referred to the site as gallery six in either a book or poem.
It was probably for legal reasons but I'm not
positive on that either.
megan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:16:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gallery Six Reading
>Gary M.
Gillman wrote:
>It seems to
me that a very worthy tribute to beat literature and the
considerable, enduring social impact of beat culture would
be to make a
film, or launch a
theatrical production, of the famous Six Poets at the Six
Gallery reading
which took place just over 40 years ago in San Francisco. If
done right as a
film, this could be our Il Postino (only much more
significant, with
all due respect for that excellent film). Certainly, while
Allen Ginsberg,
McClure, Snyder and many other original participants are
still living,
such a project could benefit from their invaluable advice and
support. Does
anyone agree that this would be a most worthwile project to
launch? Perhaps
NYU would be a natural choice to get such project started,
or the State
University of New Nork at Buffalo - any thoughts?
Hmm...I think
trying to re-enact that momentous
reading would be like trying
to lose one's
virginity again.....it ain't going to happen.
However, here's
my pitch...
I think something
telling the story that led up to that
reading might work.
You know, the
story behind the story. What were the dynamics in each of the
major players (I
mean poets) lives that led up to that
night, that
chemistry...
With so many of
the participants still around (for now) to tell their story,
it could be based
on an accurate factual account. It could lead up to the
reading ...and
then end....leaving us to our own visions or memories of that
night.
I think Rexroth's
role as MC and a guiding light in the SF renaissance,
Synder meeting
McClure and others for the first time and Ferlinghetti's
description of
Kerouac as "just another stumblebum on the scene" could
provide great
drama.....
Any backers out
there?
I 've always
wanted to be a player in Hollywood.....
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:11:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "DOUGLAS W. WACKER"
<dwacker@IN.NET>
Subject: Tarantula
>To:
Beat-L@cunyvm
>From:
dwacker@in.net (DOUGLAS W. WACKER)
>Subject:
Tarantula
>
>Just wondered
if anyone has read Bob Dylan's 'Tarantula'?
I had read about
Dylan's
relationship (for lack of a better word) with beat culture and
noticed 'beatitude'
in his persona, but never realized the extent of his
stream of
conciousness poetry writing and its similarity to beat poetry
until I started
reading it. What does everybody
think? If you haven't read
it, pick it up,
its really turing out to be one of my fav books of poems. I
think it really
conveys this weird rural/street bum mood - hard to put into
words. Also check out some of Dylan's liner notes
(i.e. Highway 61). Opinions?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:35:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: off the road
>Anyways, the
said cartoon was shown on Channel 4 in England as part of a
>documentary
on the UK animation scene and was called Fourmations: 3D or not 3D.
>There was an
interview with the fimmaker, Phil Hunt, beforehand and he was
>talking about
how different reading Burroughs is from hearing el hombre
>invisible
reading his works aloud, a mesmorising experience he called it.
>Well it
inspired him to make this surreal piece of art with the soundtrack
>of Burroughs
reading from Ah Pook and Interzone.
Joseph McNicholas
(mcnichol@mail.utexas.edu) - that's the one i saw! brilliant
twas also! sorry i didn't catch the animators name, nor
the television program
it was taken
from, but certain someone out there would know.
now half-way
through carolyn cassady's 'off the road'.
oustanding read. can't
put it down and
have taken more time off work to sit and read it - even better
the fact it was
bought unread from a secondhand bookshop for only (a borrowed) 3
quid - an omen!
now up to the
part where neal nearly has his foot torn-off & been diagnosed 'a
sociopathic
personality with schizophrenic and manic-depressive tendencies that
could develop
into psychosis'.
carolyn has some
profound observations on both kerouac & cassady (as men, souls
&
lovers). would unreservedly recommend it
as a must read for those who haven't
had the good
fortune - myself included of course!
joe
ps. arriving in
the states next monday on the way to salt lake city with a two
hour wait at san
francisco airport. anyone recommend any
bars to visit near
this airport?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:18:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Documentary: Evening at Six
At 10:16 PM
2/26/96, Ben Moore wrote:
>I think
something telling the story that led up
to that reading might work.
>You know, the
story behind the story. What were the dynamics in each of the
>major players
(I mean poets) lives that led up to that
night, that
>chemistry...
>With so many
of the participants still around (for now) to tell their story,
>it could be
based on an accurate factual account. It could lead up to the
>reading
...and then end....leaving us to our own visions or memories of that
>night.
Playing in
Hollywood is dangerous, Ben, but I like this idea....I see it as
a documentary,
interviewing surviving participants and how they recall the
events leading up
to the reading....interspersing with photos of those
past, how they
looked then, how they looked years later...hmmmmm....so, who
do we call first?
I'm in the middle
of several projects right now, but this really does
appeal to me....I
just don't know personally any of the talking heads who
would need to be
brought on board.....again, hmmmmmmm....
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
"The doctors
X-rayed my head and found nothing."
-- Dizzy Dean
explaining how he felt after being hit
on the head by a
ball in the 1934 World Series
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:24:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Dylan
At 12:11 AM
2/27/96, DOUGLAS W. WACKER wrote:
>but never
realized the extent of his (Dylan's)
>stream of
conciousness poetry writing and its similarity to beat poetry
>until I
started reading it. What does everybody
think? If you haven't read
>it, pick it
up, its really turning out to be one of my fav books of poems. I
>think it
really conveys this weird rural/street bum mood - hard to put into
>words. Also check out some of Dylan's liner notes
(i.e. Highway 61).
>Opinions?
Just listen to
the words of his songs....it's on the road set to
music....I've
always believed the early Dylan put music to the Beat, so to
speak....of
course, there was the improv of jazz, too, but Dylan's music
and the words
just sang that highway song, with a bit of influence of Woody
Guthrie, the
original roadie......
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
"The doctors
X-rayed my head and found nothing."
-- Dizzy Dean
explaining how he felt after being hit
on the head by a
ball in the 1934 World Series
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:46:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Alexander Macgillivray
<Alexander_MacGillivray@MAIL.AMSINC.COM>
Subject: Re: Tarantula
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
Agree with you on Tarantula, it does make for
very beat-like reading that
reminds me of soem Ginsberg stuff in the way
it abandons themes and
returns to them almost musically.
Alex the lurker
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:25:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: PALIMPSEST
Yesterday I read
parts of Gore Vidal's "Palimpsest" and was a little surprised
to find a chapter
devoted to the Beats, in particular his tryst with Kerouac,
which he
"lovingly"(smile) describes.
He excerpts a few passages from "The
Subterraeans"
and, as is his forte, is quite pleased with himself and the
character based
on him in that novel.
Vidal always
comes across as being conceited in a humourous kind of way, but I
found that
particular chapter entertaining.
Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:36:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: JIM CARROLL
This is a mail
message I received that I thought the list might enjoy. Jim
Carroll is still
carrying on the oral tradition.
Paul
********************************************************************************
Subj: Jim Carroll Web Site
Date: Tue, 27 Feb
1996 01:15:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Cassie
Carter <ccarter@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Jim
Carroll Web Site
To:
ccarter@bgnet.bgsu.edu
bcc:
Message-ID:
<Pine.3.89.9602270147.A5424-0100000@bgnet1.bgsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I've just added
four items to the primary bibliography (*Out of This
World* anthology,
"Curtis's Charm" in *Paris Review* and on the film
soundtrack, and
JC's review of *Kids* in *George*), and one item to the
secondary
bibliography (*Current Biography* article).
Enjoy.
Cassie
Carter |----------------------------------------|
English
Department | Visit THE JIM CARROLL HOME PAGE |
Bowling Green
State University
|http://www.bgsu.edu/~ccarter/carroll.htm|
Bowling Green, OH
43403 |*Everything you want to
know about JC!* |
ccarter@bgnet.bgsu.edu
|----------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:40:38 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Storz
<storz@VANCOUVER.WSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tarantula
In-Reply-To: <9602270511.AA11464@su1.in.net>
On Tue, 27 Feb
1996, DOUGLAS W. WACKER wrote:
> >To:
Beat-L@cunyvm
> >From:
dwacker@in.net (DOUGLAS W. WACKER)
> >Subject:
Tarantula
> >
> >Just
wondered if anyone has read Bob Dylan's 'Tarantula'? I had read about
> Dylan's
relationship (for lack of a better word) with beat culture and
> noticed
'beatitude' in his persona, but never realized the extent of his
> stream of
conciousness poetry writing and its similarity to beat poetry
> until I
started reading it. What does everybody
think? If you haven't read
> it, pick it
up, its really turing out to be one of my fav books of poems. I
> think it
really conveys this weird rural/street bum mood - hard to put into
> words. Also check out some of Dylan's liner notes
(i.e. Highway 61). Opinion
s?
> >
>
Yes , I agree. In the Paris Review that has the story about
Ginsberg's
class at
Columbia, Ginsberg credits Bob Dylan (As well as Billie
Holliday), as
influences of speech/poetry rythum and style.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:47:11 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Hammer Flippin', Speed Trippin'
>'visions of
kerouac - the life of jack kerouac by charles jarvis' then
>states that
he reckons neal fulfilled his death wish!
explaining that
>anyone who
lives 'on the edge' for so long will eventually fall over
>it.
>
>from what
i've read of neal, nowhere does it mention 'a death wish' as
>a way of
life, even in the (abstract) context of mr. jarvis' explanation of
>'living on
the edge, eventually falling over it'. i
realise this is only one
>person's
point of view but it made me think (a little).
>
>i'd like to
know more please...
>
"Neal said
he'd tried to kill himself several times when he was young but
when he came to
believe in reincarnation, he feared the penalty too much.
Now he dared God
to do it instead by reckless defiance of all danger. So
both Neal and I
wanted to die and we'd blame each other, in our worst
moments, for the
loss of our loved ones: his family or former loves and my
son Grant. Although he promised never to leave me, he
did, for good.."
Anne Murphy, Spit
in the Ocean No 6
"He
increased his use of 'speed' and marijuana, and took anything else
available. In despair I'd watch him swallow pills he'd
'found'-not knowing
what they
were-and in the next four short years I saw him pursue death with
every breath of
life." Carolyn Cassady, Off the
Road
"Maybe it
took a relative outsider like Robert Stone to see, as early as the
summer of 1966 in
Mexico, that Neal was in bad shape, that his emotions were
increasingly
unreal, increasingly a function of the amphetamine he was
shooting
up." William Plummer
While I collected
these quotes I put on a Funkdoobiest rap which has the
lyrics "When
you hear my tomahawk go bang, do your thing, what ever it is."
I can picture
Neal waking up in sixties, realising it's a good decade to
die, saying
"When I throw my hammer in the air, do your thing, what ever it
is." and
speeding away...
"Come back
and remember and go away and come back."
Kesey
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Gray
Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
CSIRO Division of
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:15:10 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Tarantula
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:11:14 -0500
from <dwacker@IN.NET>
Read Tarantula
years ago. Think I still have a copy
somewhere. But
Dylan's interest
in Kerouac and Ginsberg is longstanding. Dylan has even
collaborated with
Ginsberg on some Blues albums. Allen
was part of
Rolling Thunder
and has a couple of scenes in Don't Look Back.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:28:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Re: Tarantula
At 05:15 PM
2/27/96 EST, you wrote:
>Read
Tarantula years ago. Think I still have
a copy somewhere. But
>Dylan's
interest in Kerouac and Ginsberg is longstanding. Dylan has even
>collaborated
with Ginsberg on some Blues albums.
Allen was part of
>Rolling
Thunder and has a couple of scenes in Don't Look Back.
>
In fact, Ann
Charters in her superb Viking Portable Beat Reader - let`s have
a volume 2, Ann -
indicates that Dylan had submitted poems for publication
to Ferlinghetti
in the early 60`s, and of course Dylan is on record as
saying that he
was influenced to write by Mexico City Blues.
Gary M. Gillman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:32:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andra <asg5@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Don't Look Back
In which scenes
of Don't Look Back does Ginsberg appear?
>Read
Tarantula years ago. Think I still have
a copy somewhere. But
>Dylan's
interest in Kerouac and Ginsberg is longstanding. Dylan has even
>collaborated
with Ginsberg on some Blues albums.
Allen was part of
>Rolling
Thunder and has a couple of scenes in Don't Look Back.
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
An it's yer life
Do it - don talk
it - Andra Greenberg
Forget about the
talkers - Duke University
They'll always be
around
asg5@acpub.duke.edu
You won't ......
--Bob Dylan--
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:18:55 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: Don't Look Back
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:32:17 -0500
from
<asg5@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
On Tue, 27 Feb
1996 18:32:17 -0500 Andra said:
>In which
scenes of Don't Look Back does Ginsberg appear?
Most evidently,
he lingers in the background of the famous "Subterranean
Homesick
Blues" sequence. During it, the
tune runs on the soundtrack
as Dylan displays
a series of "cue cards," on which selected lyrics of
his song (mostly)
have been scrawled, and he drops them one by one to
the ground.
Blaine Allan
ALLANB@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:25:52 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Holly Ross
<hollyr@OCF.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: On the Road again...
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<9601228250.AA825009632@wok.programart.com>
On Thu, 22 Feb
1996, Mark Fisher wrote:
> >I am
going out to San Francisco in about a month. I am interested in
>
>suggestions of beat-related places (besides City Lights) to visit. Also
> good
> >used
bookstores and jazz clubs. I suggest you e-mail me directly to avoid
>
>cluttering up mailboxes of non-interested list members.
> >Thanks.
> >Ben
>
> Actually I
plan on doing this myself one day and I wouldn't mind a copy
> myself. You
can post it here since it really does sound like an interesting
>
conversation, or just double-mail it to Ben and I.
>
> ..Critter
(Critter@mail.serve.com)
>
> Origins of
the Beat Generation has a map of SF with Beat landmarks.
>
For both of you -
I'm a California Bay Area native and a big Beat Gen.
fan. I can shoe the THE "Supermarket in
California," Ginsberg's Berkeley
cottage, all the
SF downtown joints (around Market St.), as well as other
cool stuff in The
City (as we call it). Need maps? More info?
You can
e-mail me personally
at hollr@ocf.berkeley.edu
Holly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:24:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery Reading
Seems like it
would be more appropriate to launch such a project on the West
coast and not in
a university setting. That aside, I think it's an excellent
idea. I have
longed wished for a book on the event--something historical but
without the usual
academic theoretical posturing. Something with interviews,
photos,
narrative, etc. But your idea of a theatrical performance however
sounds even
better.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:45:37 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Luis_Saenz_de_Viguera_Erquiaga
<lsaenz@RIGEL.DEUSTO.ES>
Subject: Beat list
Please, send me
some info to the Basque Country.
Gora Kerouac!
Gora Herria!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:23:23 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: MS TERESA M GIORDANO <KWHA07A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: RESEARCH
I'm doing some
research re: Kerouac life and times and
would like to
be in touch with
Ann Charters - last I read she was teaching at the
University of
Connecticut. Can anyone confirm this?
Thanks,
Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:24:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Ann Charters
At 6:28 PM
2/27/96, Gary M. Gillman wrote:
>In fact, Ann
Charters in her superb Viking Portable Beat Reader - let`s have
>a volume 2,
Ann--
Gary--
She has come out
recently with either Jack's letters or his poems, I'm not
sure which....
Anyone out there
know which?
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
"The doctors
X-rayed my head and found nothing."
-- Dizzy Dean
explaining how he felt after being hit
on the head by a
ball in the 1934 World Series
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:23:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: RESEARCH
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:23:23 EST from
<KWHA07A@PRODIGY.COM>
On Wed, 28 Feb
1996 08:23:23 EST MS TERESA M GIORDANO said:
>I'm doing
some research re: Kerouac life and times
and would like to
>be in touch
with Ann Charters - last I read she was teaching at the
>University of
Connecticut. Can anyone confirm this?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Teresa
Yes, she is.
Confirmed.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:00:37 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery Reading
In-Reply-To:
<960228002453_233090275@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "Mitchell
Smith" at Feb 28, 96
00:24:54 am
I also think the
idea of a Six Gallery commemoration event sounds cool.
In fact I tried
to drum up support for a small version of this idea
last October
among some comrades (for the 40th anniversary) but the
time wasn't
right.
Maybe with the
combined forces of the BEAT-L, the Kerouac Connection,
Literary Kicks,
Dharma Beat and the Jack Kerouac Subterranean Information
Society, and
others we could get this thing going.
Any ideas how to
get the ball
rolling?
I also would
suggest a bi-coastal event -- one in New York, one in
San
Francisco. I'd try to attend both.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
"Where the
vulture glides descending, there's an asphalt highway bending
Through libraries and museums,
galaxies and stars
Down the windy halls of friendship, to the
rose clipped by the bullwhip
The motel of lost companions waits with
heated pool and bar"
-- Neil Young
("Thrasher")
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:03:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery Reading Documentary
At 7:00 AM
2/28/96, Levi Asher wrote:
>Maybe with
the combined forces of the BEAT-L, the Kerouac Connection,
>Literary
Kicks, Dharma Beat and the Jack Kerouac Subterranean Information
>Society, and
others we could get this thing going.
Any ideas how to
>get the ball
rolling?
I have some
experience in writing theatrical scripts....I would be
interested in
helping write this....do research, background, etc.....can't
take much time
away from my day job, but certainly would be happy to
help...
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
"The doctors
X-rayed my head and found nothing."
-- Dizzy Dean
explaining how he felt after being hit
on the head by a
ball in the 1934 World Series
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:48:06 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "HI,IM VINNIE AND I'M A
VENTILATING SYSTEM" <VOSHEA@DIT.IE>
Subject: jack kerouac subterrannaen information
society
what is the jack
kerouac subterrannean information society?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:24:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: RESEARCH (fwd)
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
From: MS TERESA M GIORDANO
<KWHA07A@PRODIGY.COM>
I'm doing some
research re: Kerouac life and times and
would like to
be in touch with
Ann Charters - last I read she was teaching at the
University of
Connecticut. Can anyone confirm this?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just saw her on
the stairs about five minutes ago - she's my advisor
up here. Send me a private note about what you need to
know (addresses etc):
Peter McGahey -
PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.EDU
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:47:45 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: Dylan and Tarantula
Check out Sam
Shepherd's "Rolling Thunder Logbook."
There is a section where
Dylan, Ginsberg
and Shepherd visit Kerouac's grave.
Larry Sloman has written
a book (out of
print, I think) called "On The Road with Bob Dylan" with a lot
of references to
Kerouac and the Sampas family.
Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:46:00 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gilbert, Len"
<lgilbert@INTEGRALSYS.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road again...
>:For both of you - I'm a California Bay
Area native and a big Beat Gen.
>:fan.
I can shoe the THE "Supermarket in California," Ginsberg's
Berkeley
>:cottage, all the SF downtown joints
(around Market St.), as well as
other
>:cool stuff in The City (as we call
it). Need maps? More info?
You can
>:e-mail me personally at hollr@ocf.berkeley.edu
>:
>:Holly
My email to your
email address got bounced back. Can you send info to me at:
home
71532.316@compuserve.com
work
lgilbert@integralsys.com
Also regarding
the Six Gallery reading/aniversary idea: I'd be interested.
Maybe the SF/Bay
Area people could get together to discuss...
-L
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:00:38 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Katherine Catmull <kate@BGA.COM>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery Reading Doc
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu
I am fowarding
this for a friend (and BEAT-L subscriber) who is having
some trouble
posting to the list. If you reply to him personally,
please mail to
grasp@pstrategies.com
----------
Forwarded message ----------
RE>>Six Gallery
Reading Documentary 2/28/96
I think the idea
of commemorating the Six Gallery reading is terrific! After
all, in many ways it launched the 2nd SF Poetry
Renaissance & brought
together the
"original" East Coast Beats with the both the Black Mtn.
poets & the
West Coast group of Duncan, Rexroth, McClure, Snyder,
Lamentia, et al.
Ten years ago I
wrote a play called "Kerouac: Mad to be Saved" that was
produced in
Austin, Texas. It was an incredible
experience -- the auditions,
the rehearsals,
performances -- everything. I'd love to
be involved in
writing/editing
this project.
g.rasp
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:20:57 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gardner Tammy M
<tmg839s@NIC.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: status of lawsuit
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.smsu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <v01510101ad5a1eccd349@[146.163.39.50]>
Greetings and
salutations.
Does anyone know
of the current status of the lawsuit Jan Kerouac filed
against the
will? The last thing I heard was that
she was giving her
deposition,
but I have heard
nothing new since then.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:18:12 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gardner Tammy M
<tmg839s@NIC.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.smsu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <v01510100ad5a070d4054@[146.163.39.50]>
On Wed, 28 Feb
1996, Gregory J. Conroy wrote:
> At 6:28 PM
2/27/96, Gary M. Gillman wrote:
>
> >In fact,
Ann Charters in her superb Viking Portable Beat Reader - let`s have
> >a volume
2, Ann--
>
> Gary--
>
> She has come
out recently with either Jack's letters or his poems, I'm not
> sure
which....
> Anyone out
there know which?
>
> gc
>
I think it was
the selected letters.
tg
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:19:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery Reading
Levi Asher wrote:
> Any ideas
how to get the ball rolling?
I came up with
one........the filmmaker Ken Burns (Civil War, Baseball) lives
in a small town
about 40 miles south of me. So I gathered up several of the
recent postings
on this topic, wrote a cover letter telling him why he should
consider doing
this project (including the weath of research resources
available that
Levi mentioned), and will send it off to him ( I didn't have
an e-mail address
for Mr. Burns).
Goes out in 2/29
smail mail.........
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:41:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery Reading
Levi,
Consider the
Kerouac Connection in full support of this idea.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:25:37 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: M D Fascione
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dylan and Tarantula (fwd)
Dylan's Tangled
Up in Blue - 'Me I'm still On the Road heading for another
joint......'
etc etc
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:12:02 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: raw3%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET
Subject: Re: Ann Charters
>At 6:28 PM
2/27/96, Gary M. Gillman wrote:
>
>>In fact,
Ann Charters in her superb Viking Portable Beat Reader - let`s have
>>a volume
2, Ann--
>
>Gary--
>
>She has come
out recently with either Jack's letters or his poems, I'm not
>sure
which....
>Anyone out
there know which?
>
... don't know
about the poems - uk is always behind on these things - but
the first volume
of Kerouac's letters, edited by Ann Charters has been
published:
Jack Kerouac:
Selected Letters, 1940-1956, edited with an introduction and
commentary by Ann
Charters, Viking (Penguin Group), N.Y.: Penguin Books USA
Inc., (London:
Penguin Books Ltd.,) 1995.
rod warner
University of Aberystwyth, uk. raw3@aber.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:01:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Six Gallery Reading
At 11:19 PM
2/28/96, Ben Moore wrote:
>Levi Asher
wrote:
>
>I came up
with one........the filmmaker Ken Burns (Civil War, Baseball) lives
>in a small
town about 40 miles south of me. So I gathered up several of the
>recent
postings on this topic, wrote a cover letter telling him why he should
>consider
doing this project
>
>Ben
Great idea....his
Baseball was fascinating....
There's a woman
at 20th Ca. Fox who is involved with documentaries.....I'll
contact her for
some advice....
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
"The doctors
X-rayed my head and found nothing."
-- Dizzy Dean
explaining how he felt after being hit
on the head by a
ball in the 1934 World Series
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:27:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters
>the first
volume of Kerouac's letters, edited by Ann Charters has been
>published:
>
>Jack Kerouac:
Selected Letters, 1940-1956, edited with an introduction and
>commentary by
Ann Charters, Viking (Penguin Group), N.Y.: Penguin Books USA
>Inc.,
(London: Penguin Books Ltd.,) 1995.
>
"Jack Kerouac's Selected
Letters," edited by Ann Charters, is in
fact now out in
paperback. I was reading them recently and discovered the
following Beat
Fun Facts.
In a letter to Neal Cassady, complete
with chapter headings, dated
in Denver,
Thursday, July 28, 1949, Jack writes (at the beginning of the
letter's fifth
chapter), "But you must also stop feeling like the student,
the novice-he who
is taught by the Justins & Allens. This your own form of
Oedipus complex,
to take on the role of he who's being helped, to 'flirt'."
(Quotes by Jack.)
Jack's use of the term "flirt" in quotes must be a
reference to
Neal's letter dated July 3, 1949 (included in "The Beat
Reader" and
"The First Third") where Cassady writes, "I was flirting with
Justin that fall
of 41 and living at his Aunt & Uncle's."
Justin Brierly was a high school
counselor, and while the notion of
him being the
recipient of 15-year-old Neal Cassady's flirtations is
intriguing,
moreso is to consider the significance of Brierly's suggestion
that Neal go to
Columbia University in New York where he would subsequently
meet Jack and
Allen Ginsberg. Had Brierly not suggested this, 20th century
American lit may
well have turned out quite differently.
Even more compelling, however, is to
consider that Jack must have
received this
letter within hours or perhaps even minutes of his departure
time. (It was actually
several letters sent together, each dated
separately, which
the common reader, not enjoying access to archival
material, must
reconstruct from several volumes of biography, memior,
letters, and
"On the Road" itself.) In Jack's letter to Allen written on or
around July 26 he
wrote, "I am hitchhiking to Detroit tomorrow [...] See
you in N.Y. in 2
weeks. [...] I've written twice to Pommy (Cassady), no
answer. What's
the matter?" Jack had been packed for days: "This is all the
paper I have in
the empty house a-moving...." (letter to AG, 7/[26]/49);
"Just now as
I was looking for some writing paper in my suitcase (all I've
got with
me)...." (letter to NC, 7/28/49).
Had Jack missed this letter he would
have gone to Detroit to see
Edie, his first
wife, instead of San Francisco to see Neal. Carolyn Cassady
wouldn't have
thrown Neal out of the house after being appalled with his
behavior upon
Jack's late night arrival around August 1. There would've
been no
subsequent limo ride from Sacramento to Chicago in 17 hours. Part
three of "On
the Road" would have been entirely different, thematically and
stylistically.
All this because Jack stuck around an extra couple hours and
got his mail.
More Beat Fun Facts to come.
John W. Hasbrouck
e-mail:
jhasbro@tezcat.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:08:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Doug Rice <RICE@SALEM.KENT.EDU>
Organization:
Kent State - Salem Campus
Subject: Viking Portable
So much praise
for a book (the Viking Portable Beat) that in many
important ways
completely misrepresents and mis-glorifies the Beats.
This book
especially nearly destroys the work of Burroughs and of
Baraka. This
destruction is created by the fine critical eye of dear
sweet anne.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:28:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Viking Portable
In-Reply-To: <42EB2C4543A@salem-3.salem.kent.edu>
from "Doug Rice" at Feb 29,
96 08:08:59 am
>
> So much
praise for a book (the Viking Portable Beat) that in many
> important
ways completely misrepresents and mis-glorifies the Beats.
> This book
especially nearly destroys the work of Burroughs and of
> Baraka. This
destruction is created by the fine critical eye of dear
> sweet anne.
i thought i was
the only one....i liked the concept of a portable beat...but
to
compress...compile...cut and paste....man...it's
like....anti-climactic...worked
in theory...not practice....
aside...
left in a daze at
the end of big sur.....have a friend, who, although is
quite
compassionate and sensitive to others, feels angst at the mention
of
kerouac....says, "he drank himself to death....have no respect for the
man." never
tried to change her....but felt she was relentless in her
persecution of
his tortured battle with booze.....when i showed her a
passage that i
picked up one night in another dimension.....it was where he
questioned his
purpose as a writer... for if he did not express himself in
this way, the
only way he knew how to give, than god would have place him
on this earth for
nothing.......
to feel the
desire....to have the gift...and to not express it, is the true
sin...against
life.....against this very existence. it
is others who
create
illusions...demigods.....reluctant messiahs....those who
envy....those who
criticize.....those who cannot understand the desire,
for they have
none.....
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:31:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter McGahey
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Is Molly Eckert
still on the list? We haven't heard from
you lately.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:31:37 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andra <asg5@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Viking Portable
Doug Rice
<RICE@SALEM.KENT.EDU> wrote:
>So much
praise for a book (the Viking Portable Beat) that in many
>important
ways completely misrepresents and mis-glorifies the Beats.
>This book
especially nearly destroys the work of Burroughs and of
>Baraka. This
destruction is created by the fine critical eye of dear
>sweet anne.
Why do you say
this? I have the Viking Portable Beat
Reader, and I never
felt that it
destroys the work of Burroughs and Baraka.
I think it is a
wonderful book
because it contains a broad sampling of beat literature and
thus enables the
reader to become familiar with many different beat writers
and their
critics. Using the Beat Reader as a
guide, one can identify his
interests and
then branch out into other works by the authors contained in
the Beat Reader.
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
An it's yer life
Do it - don talk
it - Andra Greenberg
Forget about the
talkers - Duke University
They'll always be
around
asg5@acpub.duke.edu
You won't ......
--Bob Dylan--
* *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:50:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Jack might-have-been.....
At 9:27 AM
2/29/96, John W. Hasbrouck wrote:
>Had Jack
missed this letter he would have gone to Detroit to see
>Edie, his
first wife, instead of San Francisco to see Neal. Carolyn Cassady
>wouldn't have
thrown Neal out of the house after being appalled with his
>behavior upon
Jack's late night arrival around August 1. There would've
>been no
subsequent limo ride from Sacramento to Chicago in 17 hours. Part
>three of
"On the Road" would have been entirely different, thematically and
>stylistically.
All this because Jack stuck around an extra couple hours and
>got his mail.
Qute fascinating,
John....would J have written OTR at all had he missed
that letter?
Would it have
been about a cross-country trip through half the country
rather than coast
to coast? Would the Beats have become the Detroit School?
hmmmmmmm....
gc
Gregory J. Conroy
University News
Services
Southern Illinois
University at Edwardsville
"The doctors
X-rayed my head and found nothing."
-- Dizzy Dean
explaining how he felt after being hit
on the head by a
ball in the 1934 World Series
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:54:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gregory J. Conroy"
<gconroy@SIUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Viking Portable
>i thought i
was the only one....i liked the concept of a portable beat...but
>to
compress...compile...cut and paste....man...it's
>like....anti-climactic...worked
in theory...not practice....
Yes, Kristen, but
I went back and read several in their entirety after
reading the
Charters...some good came out of it, methinks....
gc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:30:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Jack might-have-been.....
>At 9:27 AM
2/29/96, John W. Hasbrouck wrote:
>
>
>>Had Jack
missed this letter he would have gone to Detroit to see
>>Edie, his
first wife, instead of San Francisco to see Neal. Carolyn Cassady
>>wouldn't
have thrown Neal out of the house after being appalled with his
>>behavior
upon Jack's late night arrival around August 1. There would've
>>been no
subsequent limo ride from Sacramento to Chicago in 17 hours. Part
>>three of
"On the Road" would have been entirely different, thematically and
>>stylistically.
All this because Jack stuck around an extra couple hours and
>>got his
mail.
>
>Qute
fascinating, John....would J have written OTR at all had he missed
>that letter?
>Would it have
been about a cross-country trip through half the country
>rather than
coast to coast? Would the Beats have become the Detroit School?
>hmmmmmmm....
>
Jack had begun sketches
for "On the Road" after his first road
coast-to-coast
trip in '47. This was before "The Town and the City" was
completed. I
think it's important to consider how Jack and Neal's
friendship
changed (developed? matured!?!) during the August '49 road trip
east. Nicosia's
comments about the 17-hour limo ride from Scaramento to
Chicago (see
"Memory Babe" p. 290) suggest that Jack's observations of
Neal's wild
behavior at this point in our saga, (first week of August '49),
now that NC had
burned a major bridge to Carolyn, were crucial to Jack's
later development
of "spontaneous bop prosody." We all know that. I just
think it's
interesting to see Nicosia pinpoint a point of Jack's
development as a
writer to a particular ride. A ride that could only have
taken place
because Jack picked up his mail on July 27th.
John W. Hasbrouck
jhasbro@tezcat.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:49:00 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gilbert, Len"
<lgilbert@INTEGRALSYS.COM>
Subject: Re: Viking Portable
>:---------------------------------------------------------------------
>:>i thought i was the only one....i
liked the concept of a portable
beat...but
>:>to compress...compile...cut and
paste....man...it's
>:>like....anti-climactic...worked in
theory...not practice....
>:
>:Yes, Kristen, but I went back and read
several in their entirety after
>:reading the Charters...some good came
out of it, methinks....
>:
>:gc
I agree! I can
read a little, see what I like, then get more. Any anthology
is going to be
distorting and show some biases, especially in the
introduction to
each work, artist, or theme--as well as in the works
selected and even
which excerpts get used. If you really want the whole
picture, read the
works not the excerpts.
-L
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:46:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Viking Portable
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:08:59 EST from
<RICE@SALEM.KENT.EDU>
How does Charters
destroy the work of Burroughs and Baraka?
I'll admit it's ha
rder to
anthologize a novel or a play than it is a poem, short story, or essay.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:26:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Gary M. Gillman"
<garyg@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Viking Portable Beat Reader
I`ve been
surprised at the two or three negative posts sent in on the above
subject, one of
which even sounded angry. First, with due respect for
contrary views, I
don`t think anger is, or should be, a
beat emotion.
Second, as an
ardent, but non-specialist, reader of the Beats and allied
writers, I found
a lot of difficulty finding material by, say, Lew Welch, or
Frank O`Hara, or
Amiri Baraka, and accurate bio on them, until I came across
Ann Charters`
work. And who better than Ann (whom I don`t know, BTW) to do
this service to a
non-specialist readership, considering she is a pioneer of
Beat scholarship,
especially Kerouac, of course. Ironically, one of my
favourite parts
of the anthology is Baraka`s brilliant essay on (for once!)
Kerouac`s
innovations with spontaneous prose, published originally in Yugen,
I believe. I`d
never have discovered that, and a hundred other pieces of
great writing,
but for said anthology.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:51:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Viking Portable Beat Reader
I use my Viking
Portable Beat Reader to collect autographs. So far, my copy
has been signed
by Anne Charters, Ed Sanders, Lawrence Ferlinghetti,
Gregory Corso,
Michael McClure, Ken Kesey, Allen Ginsberg, Gary Snyder and
Anne Waldman. I
can't remember who else just now.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:40:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: The Movie/Ken Burns
Wow! Did you EVER grab my attention when you said
you'd snailed information
about the
potential movie to Ken Burns. Here's what I'd like to offer for the
project: a film
like this would require funding. I used to be a grant writer
for PBS and
obtained local funding for both "Baseball" and "The Civil
war,"
(and yes, have
met Ken because I planned a party for him once). I don't know
if it would be
necessary, but I'd be more than happy to contribute to the
potential project
by trying to secure funding for the film.
Just my two-cents
worth.
Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:15:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Subject: Keep them cards and letters coming...
I posted a
message on 2/28/96 stating that one idea I decided to try to get
things going on
something to commemorate the "Six Poets at the Six Gallery"
reading was to
gather up several recent postings from the list (especially
regarding some of
the resources that would be available for the project),
with a cover
letter about the reading, and "snail mail" it to the filmmaker
Ken Burns.
That task was
completed this morning.
When I read a
followup posting by Liz Prato about her grant writing, I
started wondering
if others out there might have something else to post
regarding a
"compelling reason" to do the project, or a special skill,
talent, or
resource (such as what Liz Prato offered) that would be of benefit
to Mr Burns
should he consider such a project.
If additional
postings come in over the next few days I will again "snail
mail" them
to Mr Burns to encourage his possible interest in this project.
I should make
clear that, unlike Liz Prato, I have never met Mr Burns, and
just thought of
his name because he does live just "down the road heah' in
New
Hampsha'..." (in a small town about
40 miles south of me) and wondered
if he would
consider such a project.
I can contribute
my ability to still find and use a US Postal Service
mailbox........
Ben Moore
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:56:45 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Brynjar Agnarsson <brynjar@EASYNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Gallery Six
I'll help out if
needed witthat project.
I've completed
workshops on most aspects of 16mm film production incl.
scriptwriting,
directing,DOP, sound etc., and as a film student also have a
background in
theories+history of film along with more on scripts. I write
more than scripts
and have had some poems published in journals and am
completing my
first attempt at a novel. I'm also a member of some ind. film
co-operatives,
IFW,London filmmakers co-op and Panico in England.
So I'd me more
than glad to help out in any way if you need someone to stir
the sugar in the
coffee.
Brynjar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:59:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Douglas Dusseau
<ddusseau@IN.NET>
Subject: Re: Viking Portable
You raise a very
valid point - i.e. the dominance that Ann Charters along
with the Sampras
family has exerted in rewriting Beat history into their own
warped vision!!
>So much
praise for a book (the Viking Portable Beat) that in many
>important
ways completely misrepresents and mis-glorifies the Beats.
>This book
especially nearly destroys the work of Burroughs and of
>Baraka. This
destruction is created by the fine critical eye of dear
>sweet anne.
>
>
>
Douglas M Dusseau
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:23:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Six Gallery
Maybe the Six
Gallery piece should be something that the list takes on -- at
least the basic
outline and research. One of the more
interesting aspects of
this medium is
the speed by which information can travel and an idea can gel.
We should develop an outline online (or an
online outline) and then break up
the research
among various list inhabitants. We could
then turn the writing
over to one
person who could post various ideas for comments. My proposal
for a title would
be: "From Bridge to
Bridge." After the reading Rexroth
said Ginsberg
would be famous from bridge to bridge -- any other titles
floating around
out there?
Perry
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 23:38:52 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk9403@NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>
Subject: ATTN: All those interested in WSB
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.960430221207.18585B-100000@ccshst08>
Attention Beat
readers:
URL: http://www.bigtable.com/wsb/
Project
Title: "The William Burroughs
Collection"
Based on: "My Purpose Is to Write for the
Space Age"
William S. Burroughs, 1984.
Description: Using Burroughs' essay as a backbone, a
series
of explorative texts taken from
a large
number of sources were
compiled, combined
with interconnecting original
composition,
and hypertextualized.
Highlights: *
local search engine
* over 730k of text
* over 150 images
* bibliography
* RealAudio (coming soon)
* reader-review comment session
Stop by and take a look-- http://www.bigtable.com/wsb/
This project is part of a living
document and is
continually
expanding. Comments and contributions (text,
graphics, etc.)
wanted: be sure to fill out the
reader-review
survey.
Regards,
Luke Kelly
/\
/\ /\ /\
Luke Kelly
/\/
\/ \/\/ __o
/ \/\ lpk@kdsi.net or
/\ / /
\ / \<,_
/ \ lpk@bigtable.com
/ /
..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ http://www.bigtable.com
Please don't drive. Ride a bike! http://www.kdsi.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 04:17:42 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Claire Davison
<Claire_Davison@FPKLON.CCMAIL.COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Beat Publications
Hi,
Excuse me if this questionhas been asked
before, but I'm new here..
Are there any 'Beat' magazines in
circulation around the U.K. by these
I mean anything from Literary Magazines to
Fanzines, absoulutely
anything no matter how
professional/amateur it is.
If there isn't would anyone be willing to
help start one up in the
U.K., strictly an amateur affair mind you,
although I have access to
some equipment (DTP, Colour Scanner,
Photocopying etc)
It would be nice to have a voice for the
'Beat' community in Britain,
If of course there is one, for God sakes
let me know!
Laters
Claire
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:48:57 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications (fwd)
> Excuse me if this questionhas been asked
before, but I'm new here..
> Are there any 'Beat' magazines in
circulation around the U.K. by these
> I mean anything from Literary Magazines
to Fanzines, absoulutely
> anything no matter how professional/amateur
it is.
There is the
excellent 'Beat Scene' run from Coventry UK. You can buy it
from Compendium
in Camden, London, who always stock back issues.
Unfortunately the
address for the magazine is not with me at present.
I'll check it out
and mail again later.
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 05:46:15 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Claire Davison
<Claire_Davison@FPKLON.CCMAIL.COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
> Excuse me if this questionhas been
asked before, but I'm new here..
>Are there any 'Beat' magazines in
circulation around the U.K. bythese
>I mean anything from Literary
Magazines to Fanzines, absoulutely
>anything no matter how
professional/amateur it is.
>There is the excellent 'Beat Scene'
run from Coventry UK. You can buy
>it from Compendium in Camden, London,
who always stock back issues.
>Unfortunately the address for the
magazine is not with me at present.
>I'll check it out and mail again
later.
>Daniel
Funny you should say that!, I've just been
leafing through the back
posts to BEAT-L and found the address,
which is for the benefit of
anyone.
Kevin Ring
27 Court Leet
Binley Woods Nr Coventry
Warwickshire CV3 2JQ
But seeing as you can buy it in Camden
I'll venture down there for it,
incidentley do you know where abouts in
Camden it is?
i.e. on the High Street, or Near the
Docks?
Thanks anyway.
Claire
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:09:55 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Beat Scene
In-Reply-To:
<960501094614_702420.204300_BHD48-53@CompuServe.COM>
> But seeing as you can buy it in Camden
I'll venture down there for it,
> incidentley do you know where abouts in
Camden it is?
> i.e. on the High Street, or Near the
Docks?
>
> Thanks anyway.
>
> Claire
>
Claire et al
To get to
Compendium bookshop you come out of the tube facing Holland and
Barrett health
food shop and take a right on to Camden High Street. Then you
keep going and
you'll pass the Elephant's Head pub on a corner. Cross over
the road and just
before the bridge you will see Compendium. It has a rather
good beat
collection always in stock.
Mail me if this
is confusing.
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:37:14 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Amira Baraka
Amira Baraka's
appearance in Boston was cancelled last night. He will be
reading tonight
(Wednesday 1 May) at UMASS-Dartmouth, 4:00PM, Main
Auditorium. Info,
call John Landry 508-999-8274.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:38:56 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Ed Sanders
Ed Sanders will
read at TT Bear's, Central Square, Cambridge, MA, Sunday,
May 12, 2-6 PM.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:33:53 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Claire Davison
<Claire_Davison@FPKLON.CCMAIL.COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Beat Scene
>Claire et al
>To get to Compendium bookshop you come
out of the tube facing Holland
>and Barrett health food shop and take
a right on to Camden High
>Street. Then you keep going and you'll
pass the Elephant's Head pub
>on a corner. Cross over the road and
just before the bridge you will
>see Compendium. It has a rather good
beat collection always in stock.
>Mail me if this is confusing.
>Daniel
Cheers Mate, I've got a pretty good idea
of where you mean. Blimey all
these years and I've never noticed a
bookshop there!
Carry on Brother
Claire
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:03:04 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Beat Scene (fwd)
>To get to Compendium bookshop you come
out of the tube facing Holland
>and Barrett health food shop and take
a right on to Camden High
>Street. Then you keep going and you'll
pass the Elephant's Head pub
>on a corner. Cross over the road and
just before the bridge you will
>see Compendium. It has a rather good
beat collection always in stock.
>Mail me if this is confusing.
>Daniel
Cheers Mate, I've got a pretty good idea
of where you mean. Blimey all
these years and I've never noticed a
bookshop there!
Carry on Brother
Claire
So you know the
Lock Tavern pub then?
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:41:10 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: BONNIE LEE HOWARD
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: The Last Time I Committed Suicide
Hi all,
I am just
forwarding this from one of my cinema lists. I haven't seen any
discussion of it
here, but then I've been gone for awhile...
Bonnie
howardb@sonoma.edu
= NEW YORK -- Keanu Reeves is feeling
independent, according to industry
= sources, who say the actor will appear in
the $2 million "The Last
= Time I Committed Suicide," filming this
month. Reeves, who will be
= center screen in Fine Line's September
release "Feeling Minnesota,"
= will not be the leading man in
"Suicide." Thomas Jane will be the star
= of the movie, which focuses on a letter that
beatnik Neal Cassady
= wrote to Jack Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:52:01 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: The Last Time I Committed Suicide
BONNIE LEE HOWARD
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am just
forwarding this from one of my cinema lists. I haven't seen any
> discussion
of it here, but then I've been gone for awhile...
>
> Bonnie
>
howardb@sonoma.edu
>
> = NEW YORK -- Keanu Reeves is feeling
independent, according to industry
> = sources, who say the actor will appear in
the $2 million "The Last
> = Time I Committed Suicide," filming this
month. Reeves, who will be
> = center screen in Fine Line's September
release "Feeling Minnesota,"
> = will not be the leading man in
"Suicide." Thomas Jane will be the star
> = of the movie, which focuses on a letter that
beatnik Neal Cassady
> = wrote to Jack Kerouac.
Whoa! This IS
interesting news. I did a quick search (Open Text Index) and got 1
match. The phrase
"The last time I committed suicide" is found in the Cassady
Rap
found at the
following URL:
ftp://gdead.berkeley.edu/pub/gdead/miscellaneous/Cassady-Rap
This rap is from
a Grateful Dead show, and is transcribed by Kim Spurlock and
wonderfully,
maticulously annotated by legendary pal of Ken Kesey and Neal
Cassady,
Ken Babbs.
Let us now all
read and discuss this amazing Cassady Rap ad infinitum.
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:26:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Timothy Gallaher
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Last Time I Committed Suicide
Here wow is
another url that has a rap probably the same one
http://www.halcyon.com/colinp/cassady1.htm
>BONNIE LEE
HOWARD wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am
just forwarding this from one of my cinema lists. I haven't seen any
>>
discussion of it here, but then I've been gone for awhile...
>>
>> Bonnie
>>
howardb@sonoma.edu
>>
>> = NEW YORK -- Keanu Reeves is feeling
independent, according to industry
>> = sources, who say the actor will appear in
the $2 million "The Last
>> = Time I Committed Suicide," filming this
month. Reeves, who will be
>> = center screen in Fine Line's September
release "Feeling Minnesota,"
>> = will not be the leading man in
"Suicide." Thomas Jane will be the star
>> = of the movie, which focuses on a letter that
beatnik Neal Cassady
>> = wrote to Jack Kerouac.
>
>Whoa! This IS
interesting news. I did a quick search (Open Text Index) and got
>1
>match. The
phrase "The last time I committed suicide" is found in the Cassady
> Rap
>found at the
following URL:
>
>ftp://gdead.berkeley.edu/pub/gdead/miscellaneous/Cassady-Rap
>
>This rap is
from a Grateful Dead show, and is transcribed by Kim Spurlock and
>wonderfully,
maticulously annotated by legendary pal of Ken Kesey and Neal
> Cassady,
>Ken Babbs.
>
>Let us now
all read and discuss this amazing Cassady Rap ad infinitum.
>
>John H.
>Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:47:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: nighthawks at the diner....
I was just listening to Tom Waits'
excellent album, "Nighthawks at the
Diner"
recently and forgot how Kerouacesque that album is (and many of his early
efforts)...
Listening to songs such as "Emotional Weather Report" and "Eggs
and
Sausages" on
this album made me think of Kerouac's ability to catalogue the
minutae of life
and how this might have influenced Waits' songs... I mean,
tracks like
"Step Right Up" (off another album) seem to have come directly from
Kerouac's (or
Cassady's) mouth.... Of course, Waits did a direct homage to all
things Beat with
his song, "Jack and Neal"....
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 17:56:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: paper on Bataille:WARNING
Perry lindstrom
asked if i would post this awhile ago, so i know at
least one person
will read it -- This is not a specific beat-related post
but deals with
issues that all poets and writers (not all) face -- For
those of you who
are interested in poetry and writing in general and
like insane
french authors, you should browse this -- otherwise, just
delete it -- --
IT IS A VERY
STRANGE Paper --
the footnotes got fucked up when i pasted it here -- i
tried to fix them
-- i included a bibliography at the end -- tell me what
you think --- It is titled "BATAILLE's NIGHT: Poetry as LIMIT EXPERIENCE"
it is about 12
pages
Introduction
Man is an echo in search of the Sound
which made it. That
is to say, man,
as a discontinuous being, wishes to possess the
ungraspable
whole, his 'opposite', the Other, the continuity
from which he is
divorced. Death alone can return man to
this
continuity, this
totality; consciousness of death,
however, is not
possible. For Bataille, it is conceptually impossible
to know or
communicate with
what is beyond death, since death is an absolute limit
of human
experience, beyond which we cannot travel and return. The most
one can
experience is the vertigo of the edge of the chasm. This
experience of the
edge, of the extreme limit of human possibilities, in
which alone man
can 'attain' the whole, requires a sudden negation of the
individual in
intense communication. Bataille points to the example of
eroticism to
illustrate his point: the supreme moment of erotic rapture
is characterized
by the dissolution and fusion of the individual lovers.
Another example,
the one which will be explored in this essay, is the
writing(and
reading) of poetry. These too have the
ability to suppress
the individuals
involved. Following Mallarme on this
point, and using
Sartre's words,
Bataille tells us that "(whenever literature really
appears), reader
and writer are canceled out simultaneously: they
extinguish each
other mutually, until the Word alone remains."( in
Literature and
Evil) Man,
however, can only
'grasp' the whole for an instant, for it too slips into
darkness, man
having no means of identifying the whole as an entity to be
possessed. At this moment, there is communication, an
opening of the
sacred. At this moment, man transgresses the laws of
society, which are
devoted to
utility and the avoidance of death, with a completely
sovereign
gesture. He ceases to suppress the
present moment for some
future end, he
ceases to live negatively, to exert all his energy in the
perennial pushing
away of death, of the death his discontinuous being:
at this moment of
supreme expenditure, man experiences Life in all its
violent
jouissance, Being in its infinite profusion.
eroticisM =
Fusion
Bataille's notion of eroticism is key to
any understanding of his
philosophy, and a
preliminary discussion of it will help to familiarize
us with his
concept of the limit experience.
Bataille tells us in his
"Death and
Sensuality" that eroticism is "the assenting to life up to the
point of death." What is at stake
in sex for
Bataille is communication between two beings, and in pushing
sexuality to its
limits, he wants to test to breaking point the emotional
boundaries of the
personality of the man and the woman. It
is the
relationship with
the other that is important. He is not
interested in
sex as something
that celebrates individuality and leads to the
sovereignty of
the isolated being -- this would strengthen the myth of
the personality
which Bataille wished to challenge.
Sex, for Bataille, is intimately connected
with and necessarily
includes
anguish. It is the intermediary between
birth and death, and in
the erotic act we
encounter the chasm at the edge of existence.
When two
beings embrace,
they momentarily experience the surpassing of life that
is death. In interpenetrating, two partners advance to
their limit,
which is a state
of undifferentiation in which their separate identities
merge. Two waves wrapping around each other for
eternity, two waves and
one, everything
all at once forever.....
Poetry -- the
Revelation of Man to Himself
In Death and Sensuality, Bataille tells us
that
"Poetry
leads to the same place as all forms of eroticism -- to the blending
and fusion of
separate
objects. It leads us to eternity, it
leads us to death, and
through death to
continuity."(Bataille -- Death and Sensuality)
Eternity is the
sun matched with the
sea. It is that impossible point in which
"life and death, the real and
the imaginary,
the past and the future, the communicable and the
incommunicable,
the high and the low cease to be perceived as
contradictions."(Breton,
2cd Manifesto) It is that instant in
which man's
original
condition
is revealed. "It is man thrown to be all the
opposites that constitute
him."(Paz,
139) He can become them all because at
birth he has them in him
already, he is
already these opposites. 'Otherness' is in man himself.
Octavio Paz
writes, "The poetic experience is an opening up of the
wellsprings of
being. An instant and never. An instant and forever.
Instant in which
we are that which we were and shall be.
Being born and
dying: an instant.
In that instant we are life and death, this and
that."(Paz,
bow and the lyre, p139)
Writing,
sacrifice, REVOLT, etc....
"The purpose of poetry being to
make us supreme by
impersonalizing us, we reach by grace of
the poem the
plenitude of what is only hinted at, or
travestied, in the
rantings of the individual.
Poems are those bits of
incorruptible being we toss
into the repugnant jaws of death,
arching them high so
that they ricochet and fall into the
formative world of
unity." --- rene char
"ramparts of the twig"
"Genuine suicide can only be
literary. (It) implies the
sacrifice of he who writes, a sacrifice
'in relation to
personality' and unique in its
kind." (Sollers, p.68)
"The term poetry," Bataille
writes in his essay The Notion of
Expenditure,
"can be considered synonymous with expenditure; it in fact
signifies, in the
most precise way, creation by means of loss."
Through writing,
the individual slices his wrists, tears off his face,
'shakes off his
flesh', to allow the red ocean to thunder forth, the red
ocean that sleeps
in the hearts of all men. The writer sacrifices himself
for true
communication between beings. He makes a
sovereign gesture,
relinquishing the
restricted notion of the self as a defined entity, as a
thing, and
sacrificing the future for the immediacy of the moment. This
necessarily puts
poetry in opposition to society and its demands.
Society is based
upon action, which is utterly dependent upon project --
project is the
putting off of existence to a later point. In other
words, it is the
condemnation of the present moment for the sake of the
future, embodied
in the reality principle. The everyday utilitarian
activity of such
a society as ours, by ceaselessly reducing everything
that surrounds us
to the level of use value, alienates us from nature,
ourselves, and
each other. It turns us into things.
Poetry, which, for
Bataille,
embodies the complicity of our intimate relations with other
beings, is a
direct revolt against(and a sovereign refusal of) this
anonymous process
by which we become alienated from ourselves and our
world.
By definition, true poetry cannot be
subsumed to utilitarian value,
since it is above
all determined by its affect, something that refuses
translation into
a product which can be bought and sold.
Poetry has no
price. It exists only as an immediacy that takes
place in intimacy
between writer
and reader. It is an experience that
cannot be
recaptured beyond
the immediate impact of its telling. If
a poem
genuinely
affects, then it transforms being, doing so in a way that is
beyond words
(although it works only through a shared language); for
poetry, as the
surrealists always insisted, is not reducible to a poem
but captures
something beyond words that touches the heart.
"This sense
of shock -- of
recognition and intimacy -- is the soul of poetry, and it
is what connects
it with sacrifice, which similarly effects a common
consecration
beyond expression." - (in Absence of Myth intro)
This notion of poetry as sacrifice demands
further discussion.
Bataille saw
poetry as the only real residue of the communal sense of the
sacred that had
survived into present-day society.
Sacrifice, Bataille
concluded after
studying the concept for many years, is in all cases a
failure. As a
form of mass (communal) expenditure, however, sacrifice is
wholly
necessary. The fact that sacrifice is
always unsuccessful and is
essentially
useless is a virtue in this sense. It
purges the community
of its excess
negativity in its attempt to gain mastery over death by
rendering it
personal, present and possible. These
statements point to
the fact that
Bataille does not see the origins of sacrifice as the
institution on
which the social bond was based, a widely held
assumption. His analysis is much more grim. In Literature and Evil, he
writes:
"If we must approach as closely as
possible, and as often as
possible, the very object of our disgust,
if our nature can
be defined by introducing into life the
greatest number of
elements which contradict it, but at the
same time harm it
as little as possible, sacrifice no
longer remains that
elementary, but none the less
intelligible, form of behavior
which it has been hitherto. So eminent a custom had, in the
end, 'to correspond to some elementary
necessity which
should be perfectly obvious.'"
-(literature and evil, p69)
Bataille goes on to say that if human life
did not contain this
violent instinct
we could dispense with the arts.
Bataille feels that
these
"moments of intensity" are the moments of excess and of fusion of
beings. When man reaches these states of
fusion(laughter and tears are
his cases in
point) through anguish and its transcendence, he is,
according to
Bataille, satisfying an elementary requirement of finite
beings. Man, as a mortal individual, cannot endure
his limitations,
although they are
no doubt necessary to his being. It is
by going beyond
these limitations
that he asserts the nature of his being.
Bataille
asks us merely to
recall that those arts which sustain anguish and the
recovery from
anguish within us are the heirs of religion.
Our tragedies
and our comedies
are the (necessary) continuation of ancient sacrificial
rites.
Let
us return now to the idea of the writer's sacrifice.
This literary
suicide has no reward; in many cases, it
is a
total
expenditure. Any hoped-for resurrection,
recuperation,
and reincarnation
of the self in the text is impossible.
What survives
is a text that is
impersonal in nature. The attempt of
personalized
consciousness to
go through death and survive it is foiled.
This is
to say, the
subject of any intended self-portrait cannot pronounce his
own Lazare, veni
foras, to use Blanchot's terminology;
only a future
reader can. This is the meaning of Octavio PazUs
statement, "...The
poem demands the
demise of the poet who writes it and the birth of the
poet who reads
it." There are as many Lazaruses
summoned up by reading
as their are
readers. The book is a monument, a tomb,
but it is empty.
It is not a
resting place from which surges forth an integral, inviolate
self. This has been dispersed; no one in particular is there.(gregg, 69)
The notion of poetry of sacrifice then
implies the abandonment of
the hopeless task
of so-called self-expression. The writer
who tries to
express himself
is directed against the very nature of the word, which
contains a
plurality of senses and not a mere univocal concept. The
modern scripter
throws down his claims to authorship, and realizes that
he is more of a
servant to language than language is a servant to him.
He abandons
discursive thought and its smothering confines, acknowledging
the fact that
"writing is that neutral, composite, oblique space where
our subject slips
away, the negative where all identity is lost, starting
with the very
identity of the body writing." -- (Barthes - death of the
author)
Theory, language,
and tangent/rant
This major theoretical shift in the
notions of writing, and
subsequently of
reading, occurred with the poetics of Mallarme.
Much
earlier
manifestations of his ideas can be found in the language theories
of the German
Romantics, most notably those of Novalis, and in the
prophetic
sentiments of William Blake. Writing,
with Mallarme, however,
takes on a whole
new meaning: in a poem like Un Coup de
Des, writing
orchestrates its
new powers. In the words of Phillipe
Sollers :
No longer is (writing) the mere
transcription of a
meaning, but the virtually spontaneous upheaval of the
written surface; no longer the recording and comprehension
of a previous word, but an active
inscription in the
process of forging its own course; no longer the truth or
secret of one person alone, the usual
humanist reference,
but nonpersonal literality in a world
based on a dice
toss.( Sollers -- literature and
totality)
Mallarme's logic thus demanded a break
with discourse. The
expression of
oneself is no longer possible. It denies
the gap that lies
between words and
their meanings. The gap that is filled
by another, the
reader/listener,
does not necessarily(and in no sense does it have to)
coincide with the
intention of the author/speaker. The intention must
therefore be abandoned in favor of
suggestion, which
indeed is only recognition of the gap that must be
filled for any
sense to arise. In shared everyday
affairs, this gap is
filled by an
agreement between social bodies. This
discourse, based on
rational thought
in the service of utility, can of course never abandon
the ambiguities
inherent in the language..... but it can, to a point,
ignore them.
This discourse, in Sollers words,
"ultimately can refer only to an
unresolvable
man-world duality." This duality
in language, which
always leads to a
hierarchy of one term over another, is perpetuated by
the power
structure of a society. Knowledge is
power, power is
knowledge. Power has the dangerous ability to demand
that one accept its
logic and its
ideology as the Word. The consequences
have a profound
effect on man's
social being. Dissent places him outside
of the norm of
his society.
Dissent divorces him from the shared reality that he once
thought was the
only reality. This puts man in a
precarious position.
This puts the
poet in a precarious position: in Bataille's words, "(the
poet) is often
forced to choose between the destiny of a reprobate, who
is profoundly
separated from society as dejecta are from apparent life,
and a
renunciation whose price is a mediocre activity, subordinated to
vulgar and
superficial needs."(I also must mention this quote by Char: To
escape the shameful constraint of choosing between
obedience and
madness, to dodge
over and over again the stroke of the despot's axe
against which we
have no protection though we struggle without stay:
that is the
justification of our role, of our destination and our
dawdling. We must jump the barrier of the worst, run
the perilous race,
hunt on even
beyond, cut to pieces the wicked one, and finally disappear
without too much
paraphenalia. A faint thanks given or
recieved, and
nothing
more."-- The Rampart of Twigs.)
This unfortunate paradox of the
poet
is the paradox of
modern man -- his alienation leads him to this choice:
shall I alienate
myself from this alien society that my friends and
family belong to,
and in which any possible source of material
well-being(the
only goal placed before me as sensible to pursue) and any
hoped-for comfort
can be found; or(and the answer has
already been
given) shall I
conform to the outrageous demands of a society whose
surplus of
repression has bitten large holes in my stomach. Needless to
say, man usually
'chooses' to be swept along in the polluted river,
swallowing
gallons of dirty water and passively accepting an endless
onslaught of
debris which slaps him in the head like the seconds
screaming
hurry-up from the clocks all around him until, finally, when he
almost remembers
how to be useless (how to live) as a
crippled
eighty-year old,
the government pulls the plug on his respirator due to
cutbacks in
Medicare. It is Bataille's feeling that
the poet would have
something
important to communicate to this sad soul.
Poetry -- the
curse
In my craft or
sullen art
Exercised in the
still night
When only the
moon rages
And the lovers
lie abed
With all their
griefs in their arms,
I labor by
singing light
Not for ambition
or bread
Or the strut and
trade of charms
On the ivory
stages
But for the
common wages
Of their most
secret heart -- Dylan Thomas (from In My Craft or Sullen Art)
'If you meet
death during your labor
Recieve it like a
sweating neck welcomes a dry hankerchief.' - rene char
The poet, of course, is involved in the
same struggle. His
activity,
however, as discussed above, already places him outside of and
in opposition to
his society. For those rare poetes
maudits, the
situation is much
more grim: their lives consist in simply
trying to
hold on to their
minds, which reel from the carpet ripped from under
their feet by the
profound absence inside them. Writers
feel this
absence most
acutely because of the tool that they work with, language,
the tool that
itself creates man. The modern poet is
all too aware of
the arbitrariness
of the sign, and recognizes that he himself is just
another signifier
which has no relation to any signified.
He refuses,
however, to be
this empty signifier denying (denied) life.
He instead
takes on the
impossible task of discovering the hidden, unnameable who?
that he is. He must do this in the midst of a society
which has a
ready-made label
for 'types' like him: madman.
The poet takes tremendous risks in the
acceptance of his destiny.
His flirting at
the boundaries of being implies a voyage from which he
may not
return. He embarks on the voyage alone,
in a boat with no oars
and a broken
rudder. He sails into the Night to
discover the unknown, to
(re)discover
man's origin, to find that Word, that impossible Word, that
impossible
voyage, which are, all the same, necessary tasks. The poet
knows before he
leaves shore: a throw of the dice will
never abolish
chance. He cannot
care. He knows that he may not return
from this
voyage, but this
means nothing to him. One word echoes in his head: on.
His heart begins
to give out, his boat is busted in a pause, he cannot go
on: I'LL GO ON.
Bataille's Night is the Night of all poets
and artists. The
sovereign gesture
of the artist opens up the possibility of true
communication
between beings. 'Poetry', as Bataille
eloquently puts it
in his aphorism,
'is the only sovereign cry,' In the
poetic moment man
regains that
whole which is lost at birth, or at least during childhood.
The echo suddenly
realizes that it is the Sound: it realizes the unity of
Nature from which
it is so hopelessly divorced. In these
instants of
communication,
man experiences life in all of its violence and ecstasy.
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Bataille, George,
Absence of Myth: Writings on Surrealism.
Trans. Michael Richardson. London:
Verso, 1994
---. 'Death and Sensuality.' Eroticism, San Francisco:
City Lights, 1986
---. Inner Experience, Trans. Leslie Anne Bolt.
New York:
State University of New York Press, 1988
---. Literature and Evil, Trans. Alastair
Hamilton.
London:
Marion Boyers, 1985\
---. 'The Notion of Expenditure' Visions of Excess, ???
Breton, Andre,
Manifestoes of Surrealism, Trans.
Richard Seaver
and Helen Lane. University of Michigan Press, 1969
Gregg, John, Maurice Blanchot and the Literature of
Transgression, Princeton:
Princeton University Press,
1994
Paz,
Octavio, The Bow and the Lyre. Trans Ruth L.C.Simms
Austin:
University of Texas Press, 1991
Sollers,
Philippe, Writing and the Experience of Limits . Trans.
Philip Barnard with David Hayman. New York:
Columbia
University Press, 1983
have a nice day
will, your
disturbed freshman theorist
(wss@sas.upenn.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:09:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: kaufnam -- kaufMAN
For those
interested in a true beat soul, a collection of Bob Kaufman's
writings has
finally been published called Cranial Guitar-- it includes
all of golden
sardine,
alot of Ancient
Rain Poems and Solitudes Crowded with Loneliness and
uncollected stuff
-- it is published by coffeehouse press(27 North Fourth
street, suite
400, Minneapolis, MN 55401) -- it is edited
by Gerald
Nicosia and has a
great introduction with alot of quotes about bob by
those who knew
him --
he is also known
as one of the true surrealist american poets:
here is a
sampling from his
incredible "Picasso's Balcony"
"Crying love
rising from the lips of wounded flowers, wailing,
sobbing,
breathing uneven sounds of sorrow, lying in wells of
earth, throbbing,
covered with desperate laughter, out of cool
angels, spread
over night. Dancing blue images, shades
of blue
pasts, all yesterdays,
tomorrows, breaking on pebbled bodies,
on sands of blue
and coral, spent....."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: nighthawks at the diner.... (fwd)
Kerouac's (or
Cassady's) mouth.... Of course, Waits did a direct homage to all
things Beat with
his song, "Jack and Neal"....
Which album is
'Jack and Neal' from then?
Of course the
beat link continues with Waits and Burroughs on 'Black
Rider' album from
a couple of years back.
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 07:29:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: nighthawks at the diner.... (fwd)
"Jack and
Neal" can be found on Waits' "Foreign Affairs" (1977) album I
believe... I
would also highly recommend the song, "Step Right Up" off of his
"Small
Change" (1977) album... And you're right about that Burroughs link with
"Black
Rider" interesting album - especially to hear Burroughs sing!
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:26:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
Symposium in DC
Comments: cc:
lor@crest.org
I attended the
"Rebel Voices Speak Again" symposium at the National Portrait
Gallery in DC in
April 27. I've forgotten much as I went
on a business trip
the next morning,
so I hope someone else will also post thier experience of
this great event.
The event was
held in the Great Hall of the Portrait Gallery, on the third
floor. It was held in conjunction with an exhibition
of "Rebel Poets and
Painters" at
the Gallery - the poets portion focuses on four "schools", the
Beats, San Fran
Reinassance, Black Mountain and New York.
It was slow in
getting started so I went outside for a cigarette (Yes, I'm
addidicted to
that awful habit) and who walks up, unaccompanied, but the
great bard
himself, Allen Ginsberg. On the elevator
going up to the ornate,
historic hall, we
briefly discussed Whitman, who nursed wounded soldiers in
the building
during the civil war.
The first
panal "Conversation and
Poetry" consisted of Robert Creeley,
Kenward Elmslie,
Lawrence Ferlingetti and publisher Jonathon Williams,
resplendent in a
bright yellow suit. Ann Layterbach was the moderator. Each
panalist first
gave a reading of a short poem. Most of
the talk was
remininces of
bygone days, all except Creeley had been active in publishing.
Williams, active at Black Mountain Collage,
was the first to publish
Creeley. And of course, Ferlingetti was the first to
publish AG, who sat in
the front row and
took many pictures. Much of the
discussion focused on
"place",
Creeley spoke of his home in Buffalo, NY, Williams of his longtime
home in rural
western North Carolina. Ferlingetti did
not make too much of
an impression on
me other than he looked quite well and was in good spirits.
The second panel
featured AG, Michael McClure and Kenneth Koch, moderated by
Ron Padgett. Amiri Baraka was listed, but was a
no-show. The discussion, at
first, seemed
stilted and less stimilating than I had expected, focusing of
details of where
the participants had been or what they had done back on this
or that day
sometime in the 1950's or 60's, something to do with where they
had been when
they sat for various portraits that are featured in the
exhibition on the
first floor of the Gallery. The
discussion got more
interesting as it
progressed (AG on censorship of TV and radio among other
topics)
culminating in an inspiring reading of Death to Van Gogh's Ear by AG.
The bard definately was showing his age, but
let there be no doubt that he
can read as well,
as firey, as wonderfully as I've ever heard him. Several
poets invoked the
sprit of Whitman and Kerouac. After the
panel I hung
around and spoke
to McClure and AG, who were both generious with thier time
and insights.
I should mention
that AG was often beseiged with requests for signings and
complained more
than once that "they are trying to turn me into an autograph
machine." My experience is that eager fans (like
myself) should wait for the
right time (not
when he is encircled or clearly pressed for time) and have
something
intelligent to say to the great bard other than "I love your poetry
so much",
etc... I cannot blame him for being
slightly cranky at times as
one book after
another is shoved into his face. Still,
my observation was
that over the
course of the day, about 90% of the requests for signings were
fulfilled.
After the panel
events featured slides by J. Williams, a documentary about
Frank O'Hara and
another about Gary Snyder. I missed
these.
The main event
was a reading, at night, featuring (in rough order) Gregory
Corso, J.
Williams, R. Creeley, K. Elmsley, Lawrence Ferlingetti, Kenneth
Koch, Michael
McClure, AG followed by music by David Amram and friends.
Corso was quite
enjoyable, his 11 year old son (forget his name) also read a
touching,
innocent poem and showed great poise before the crowd of 350 or so.
Gregory was in a good mood. All read for about 10-15 minutes. I enjoyed
each one very
much and was often moved. Elmsley was
the most humerious,
doing a funny,
kitchy, partial drag reading accompanied by music and
graphics. Ferlingetti, as usual, was political. I was honestly impressed by
each, culminating
with AG who read, among others, his 1995 poem "The Ballad
of the
Skeletons." By the way, AG will have
a new selected poems volume out
later this year.
David Avram was,
well, David Avram (of Pull My Daisy fame, among many other
things). Standard, skilled, some improvization, 3-piece jazz interspersed
with raps about
the greatness of Jack Kerouac (So, who's got the last laugh
now Mr. Truman
"it's typing, not writing, ha, ha, ha... Capote). One
observer
described Avram as the "Mr. Rogers of the Beat Generation". Avram
is delightful,
approachable, and full of joy -- A real
pleasure.
Steven Watson was
the MC for the days activities.
After the reading
there was a surprise reception on the second floor of the
historic,
wonderful gallery (one of DC's lesser known gems). Lots of book
signing,
schmoozing, etc. I stayed till the
end. As I exited, there was the
bard, AG, still
there, still imparting wisdom, or at least his thoughts to
young fans as the
guards shooshed us away. AG, I hope you
slept well. A
good time was had
by all.
No, it was not
the Six Gallery revisited. Yes, the program
would have been
stronger with
more sexual, racial, etc. diversity (Diane DiPrima was invited,
but had a
conflict, Baraka did not show.) No there
was little or no
"controversy"
which might have livened things up. But,
it was Beat indeed!
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 10:11:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<rpeltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: kaufnam -- kaufMAN
>
>he is also
known as one of the true surrealist american poets: here is a
>sampling from
his incredible "Picasso's Balcony"
>
>"Crying
love rising from the lips of wounded flowers, wailing,
>sobbing,
breathing uneven sounds of sorrow, lying in wells of
>earth,
throbbing, covered with desperate laughter, out of cool
>angels,
spread over night. Dancing blue images,
shades of blue
>pasts, all
yesterdays, tomorrows, breaking on pebbled bodies,
>on sands of
blue and coral, spent....."
>
"wounded
flowers"? "desperate
laughter"? Weak.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 15:29:53 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: nighthawks at the diner.... (fwd)
"Jack and
Neal" can be found on Waits' "Foreign Affairs" (1977) album I
believe... I
would also highly recommend the song, "Step Right Up" off of his
"Small
Change" (1977) album... And you're right about that Burroughs link with
"Black
Rider" interesting album - especially to hear Burroughs sing!
bfn,
JDL
Speaking of Uncle
Bill singing, check out his version of 'Falling in Love
Again' from the
album Dead City Radio. It's great and sung totally in German!
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 14:30:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ed Hertzog <exh112@PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Symposium in DC
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
unsuscribe
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:57:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: The Last Time I Committed Suicide
In regards to the
on-line Cassady Rap mentioned yesterday (Wednesday), I
have a question
for the list. Perhaps somebody out there can help settle
and argument my
boss and I are having about the rap.
About a third of
the way through the rap, Neal uses the term
"Keroassady".
Ken Babbs' annotation (#30) states, "KEROASSADY: the
composite
Jack/Neal: a hybrid personality that did 'em both in."
The first time I
heard this word I was fascinated not only by the beauty
of its aural power
(specifically, the way the middle "a" bridges the
third syllable in
"Kerouac" to "Cassady") but also by the fact that,
when spoken, one
hears the word "acid" quite clearly. One could even
argue that you
hear the word "acid-y" (or "aciddy").
My boss thinks
this is too much of a stretch. I, however, argue by
speculating that
when Neal used the word "Keroassady" it was in an
entirely ORAL
context, rather than a WRITTEN context. When reading
"Keroassady",
one may not immediately perceive the word "acid" within
it. Spoken aloud,
however, I maintain its undeniable, albeit subliminal,
presence.
I'm very
interested in some feedback on this. Ultimately, we might want
to email the
question to Zane Kesey over at Key-Z Productions. If we ask
nice, maybe we
could get a response from Babbs himself. He was there.
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:07:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bobby Singh <EABU354@UCI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
In-Reply-To:
<960501081742_702420.204300_BHD48-14@CompuServe.COM>
Hi all,
I am new to this list and generally to
the whole "Beat" thing. I
was wondering if
there are any magazines (paper or electronic) about this
topic here in
USA. If yes, any addresses will be appreciated.
Thanks for
any help.
Bobby Singh
eabu354@ea.oac.uci.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
And I got
sick...it was the feeling that the great, deadly pointing forefinger
of society was
pointing at me--and the great voice of millions chanting,
'Shame. Shame.
Shame.' It's society's way of dealing with someone different.
--One
Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Three passions,
simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the
longing for love,
the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the
suffering of
mankind.
--Bertrand Russell
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:13:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Hartley
<chris.hartley@GS.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: Bobby Singh <EABU354@UCI.EDU> "Re:
Beat Publications" (May 2,
4:07pm)
jackass
mothrffucker'
whhaat up you
duumb mothhre=e==erfycker
love, love, ovee.
how we do love
the sweggch]][\\riight, we all you. yoou
have the sweetesy
little pussy that
i'd like to lick............dig iit, seems like i need aa
littlee
ffacceassauge. ssooo -yum
--
--
_________________________________________________________________
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ Chris Hartley
_/ _/
_/ _/_/_/_/ Emerging Debt Markets
_/_/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/
_/ _/
_/ _/ _/ voice: (212)-902-8110
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ email: hartlc@fi.gs.com
_________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:31:20 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: nighthawks at the diner.... (fwd)
"Jack and
Neal" can be found on Waits' "Foreign Affairs" (1977) album
I believe... I
would also highly recommend the song, "Step Right Up"
off of his
"Small Change" (1977) album... And you're right about that
Burroughs link
with "Black Rider" interesting album - especially to
hear Burroughs
sing!
bfn,
JDL
Speaking of Uncle
Bill singing, check out his version of 'Falling in Love
Again' from the
album Dead City Radio. It's great and sung totally in German!
Daniel
I am desperatly
searching for the "Black Rider" album. Where and when
has it been
released ?
Jens
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:45:06 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: j.k. school of disembodied poetics
hi there,
can anyone tell
me the exact email snail mail or even www adress of the j.k.
school of disembodied
poetics ?
thanks a lot !
jens
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:53:15 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: biography of brautigan
hi there,
could anyone name
me a good richard brautigan biography ?
i tried to get
the one by keith abboth, capra press, santa barbara,
calif. 1989, but
here in germany it is nearly impossible, to get rare
american books
that have been released more than 5 years ago.
i don't know,
whether he can be called a beat writer, but he was an
acquaintance of
allen ginsberg and appeared on a group photo in arthur and
kit knights'
wonderful book "keroac and the
beats".
thanks a lot !
jens
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:03:19 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: the audio brautigan
hi there,
are there any
tapes, lps or re-released compact discs with brautigan
reading his
wonderful stuff ?
thanks a lot!
jens
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:11:14 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: nighthawks at the diner.... (fwd)
Daniel
I am desperatly
searching for the "Black Rider" album. Where and when
has it been
released ?
Jens
Hello Jens
Black Rider is
still available as far as I know. Try the service on
telnet called
cdnow. It's at:
cdnow.com
They also stock
other Burroughs bits including the recent cd release of
'Call Me
Burroughs'.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:23:03 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
Bobby,
I co-publish
<<DHARMA beat >> a magazine of all things Kerouac. The latest
issue (#6)
includes an unpublished Kerouac piece, a piece on the Kerouac
connection with
Nashua, NH, reviews of the Whitney opening and Lowell
Festival as well
as resource guides to magazines, zines, books, events,
etc.
Published Spring
and Fall. Single issue $2.50, subscription $5.00. Check
to: DHARMA BEAT.
Send it to The Jack Kerouac subterranean Information
Society, Box
1753, Lowell, MA 01853. Hard copy only.
Mark h.
P.S. Apologies to
everyone for slow response to your letters. My day job
is killing me!,
but I do promise I'll get to everyone. Thanks for your
patience.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:32:17 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: National Portrait Gallery
I was able to
take time on a recent business trip to D.C. to check out the
beat exhibit at
the National Portrait Gallery. The exhibit is modest. It
includes
paintings, sketches and photos of and by a lot of beat poets and
artists. There's
also a bunch of first editions and audio hook-ups. It was
just the right
size to be able to disgest. Lots of info, a rare (for me)
wide angle look
at the movement that doesn't focus on any single or couple
of people.
The best part was
hearing the recording of Jack reading SF Blues in the
Gift Shop of the
National Portrait Gallery.
Definitely worth
a visit.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:28:17 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The Last Time I Committed Suicide
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 2 May 1996 16:57:18 +0000
from
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
You've got my
vote -- Keroacidy!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:51:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: MS GAYLE M ALSTROM
<gm_alstrom@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: listserve
Please removed my
name from your e-mail list.
Gayle Alstrom
g_alstrom@prodigy.com
Thank you.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:53:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nels A Nelson <Nels68Me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: biography of brautigan
In a message
dated 96-05-03 03:57:09 EDT, you write:
>i don't know,
whether he can be called a beat writer, but he was an
>acquaintance
of allen ginsberg and appeared on a group photo in arthur and
>kit knights'
wonderful book "keroac and the
beats".
I think he
(Brautigan) falls into a loose category of writers from the
"California"
or "West Coast" school - a group that includes Tom Robbins and
Ken Kesey. There seems to be a lot of cross-over into
Beat circles with this
group. Sort of a Post-Beat bastard child thing
maybe.
Nels
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:06:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: RWhiteBone@AOL.COM
Subject: further
Hello Levi! I'm
new to techno. computer illiterate but immersed in
holyunholycyberwater.
How do I get on BEAT-L list serve. Please let me know.
Thanks!
Ron
"Rollo" Whitehead 5/03/96 3:04PM
RWhiteBone@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:50:15 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Cassady-Kerouac
Just wondering if
many of you have read "Holy Goof", a bio of Neal?
Interesting and
sad to find that both experienced huge, life-changing
traumas - quite
different in detail - that apparently fueled an inward,
Imaginative turn.
The loss of
Girard and its impact on Jack is pretty well known. I had not
known about the
bizarre, cruel more-or-less torture of Neal by his (I think)
step or half
brother, after the two oldest(late teens, as I recall) of these
male relatives of
Neal decided that he should leave his father and the
flophouse (which
according to this account, was slightly healthier than it
had sounded in
other, brief mentions of this period of his life) to live
with his mother
and the other boys. Neal was still a
single-digit age at
the time, and a
slightly older brother/half or step brother would force him
onto one of those
beds that fold up into the wall and then slam him into the
storage wall,
inside the bed - making him stay there for literally hours on
end. This went on for at least close to a year,
perhaps longer. "The Holy
Goof"
describes this along with other childhood scenes. The writer quotes
Neal talking
about the effect on his mind this had, which sounds a little
like a cross
between epilepsy and creative visualization.
Apparently, Neal
began to drift
loose of the flow of time that he and we presumably normally
experience...such
that he was a bit faster than those nearby. In later life,
Neal would
experience increasing periods of "white outs" or near autism.
I'm no expert, but it occured to me that
childhood abuse can cause
personality
splits and other disorders. Also, his violence with women might
possibly have
stemmed from this treatment.
The book has an
excellent discussion of the nature and subsequent emotional
and mental impact
on Neal's preceptions. Looks like both
of the arguably
central
characters in the Beat generation shared a life-changing,
terror-inspiring
childhood event that both touched off creativity, perhaps
as an adaptation
to the pain, and emotional scarring that
may well have
contributed to
their difficult (as well as spectacular and creative) adult
lives.
Anyone have more
or better info on this?
Best regards to
all,
Jon Schwartz
jbs@uwyo.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:20:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: RWhiteBone@AOL.COM
Subject: and I'm searchin for Levi
Hello again Levi!
I've misplaced your e-mail address so sending this message
with hope that it
finds you. Exchanged messages with Sara in Chicago today.
I'm trying to get
caught up on few hundred letters, phone calls, & e-mail
messages. On
March 30th was sucketpunched by Kentucky militiaman type genuine
redneck broke
nose, cheek, jaw, permanently dislocated jaw, concussion with
migraines. Left
side of face moved to right side. Hard to believe one vicious
punch could do so
much damage. Wonder if he had something in his hand.
Already had two
surgeries to straighten face out. Told yesterday that I'll
have to endure
4-5 years of orthodontic surgery treatments complete
reconstruction of
inside mouth. Guy who hit me pleaded guilty confessed last
Wednesday. Our
present fascist Congress and people like Rush Limbow have
provided an
environment in which people like man who hit me have been given
the confidence to
come out of the closet and unleash release their anger
angst anxieties
on whoever they feel isn't one of them on their side anyone
who appears to be
liberal feminazi etc. And yes I have written new poem
titled "Most
Wanted" which I presented at reading last week. Anyway Sara from
Chicago sent me
report on Washington D.C. Smithsonian National Portrait
Gallery
exhibition event reading The Birth of The Beat Generation Rebels
Poets Painters of
the 50s. I've had to cancel numerous engagements due to
full time visits
to doctors but have managed to make a few readings &
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti, my mentor & friend, invited me to D.C. for the
happenings plus
so we could get caught up on various projects we're working
on now. It was a
wonderful event but tomblike aura with museum surroundings.
Energy low
compared to most readings I've participated in & been witness to.
I commend
Smithsonian for courage to have the event in face of current
political climate
but still explicit obvious attempt to mummify The Beats who
aren't dead and
never will be. They were & are the most important group of
writers in
history of America. Their spirit lives even stronger today than
ever as witnessed
in hearts souls actions lives of young people all over the
world who crave
Beat energy who understand Beat energy who are themselves
Beat who want to
change world who are frustrated with fucking status quo
power-monger
elite & who recognize that Beats are still the only revolution
(along with
computerworld which they have now entered engendered revolution
there too)
around. Diane di Prima was not present at event. I talked with her
last week.
Although she is ailing physically somewhat with bad back she is
strong as ever. I
just published new Published in Heaven poster by Diane. New
poem titled
"Good Clean
Fun" bout present political climate. And Lawrence gave me new
poem for poster
(last one he read at National Portrait Gallery) which is also
bout present
political climate. Both so strong. Yes Diane the only war that
matters is the
war against the imagination. Check out Diane's poem "Rant" in
her PIECES OF A
SONG published 1990 by City Lights. She is one of world's
greatest poets
& so relieved that her autobiography is completed and coming
out from Viking
Penguin April '97. Youth today recognize the courage of
engagement the
Beats still have & they are rightfully inspired by it. For too
long the best
have lacked all conviction while the worst have been & are full
of passionate
intensity.
Ferlinghetti also
updated me on On the Road movie goingson. Hope this finds
you.
All the Best, Ron
"Rollo" Whitehead, White Fields Press, 1387 Lexington Road,
Louisville,
Kentucky 40206. phone 502-568-4956. e-mail RWhiteBone@aol.com
5/03/96
5:19PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:23:58 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassady-Kerouac
Dear Jon, et al.,
As far as I know,
the material in "The Holy Goof" describing Neal being
terrorized by his
brother(s) was taken entirely from Neal's own
description of
his childhood in "The First Third". It's important to
know that TFT is
now in print in a revised, substantially enlarged
edition which
contains a great deal of new material concerning Neal's
childhood and
family history.
At first, I liked
"The Holy Goof", but recently while rereading it
(during my
not-quite-notorious Chronological Beat Reading Project) I
found it to be
seriously inadequate. I mean, jeez, WHOLE YEARS from the
fifties are dealt
with in a paragraph or two, if at all! I don't really
want to disparage
it too much, it being, after all, a POPULAR BIOGRAPHY.
It pains me to
think that we are lucky to have even this, and I am still
waiting for the
day when a 1000 page CRITICAL BIOGRAPHY of Cowboy Neal
written by a
PROFESSIONAL SCHOLAR hits the shops.
Anyway, by all
means pick up and READ the revised edition of "The First
Third" if
your reading schedule permits.
As ever,
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 19:00:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Iaquinta
<JIaqui2615@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: biography of brautigan
Afraid I can't
help with your search, but if you have a chance I'd appreciate
address and info
for Capra Press.
thanx
John
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:03:04 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady-Kerouac
Hi John H.!
Thanks for the
tip on the new edition of "The First Third." Do you or does
anyone have price
and format info on it?
Best regards to
all,
Jon
>Dear Jon, et
al.,
>
>As far as I
know, the material in "The Holy Goof" describing Neal being
>terrorized by
his brother(s) was taken entirely from Neal's own
>description
of his childhood in "The First Third". It's important to
>know that TFT
is now in print in a revised, substantially enlarged
>edition which
contains a great deal of new material concerning Neal's
>childhood and
family history.
>
>At first, I
liked "The Holy Goof", but recently while rereading it
>(during my
not-quite-notorious Chronological Beat Reading Project) I
>found it to
be seriously inadequate. I mean, jeez, WHOLE YEARS from the
>fifties are
dealt with in a paragraph or two, if at all! I don't really
>want to
disparage it too much, it being, after all, a POPULAR BIOGRAPHY.
>It pains me
to think that we are lucky to have even this, and I am still
>waiting for
the day when a 1000 page CRITICAL BIOGRAPHY of Cowboy Neal
>written by a
PROFESSIONAL SCHOLAR hits the shops.
>
>Anyway, by
all means pick up and READ the revised edition of "The First
>Third"
if your reading schedule permits.
>
>As ever,
>
>John H.
>Chicago
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:10:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Timothy Gallaher
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: and I'm searchin for Levi
>Our present
fascist Congress and people like Rush Limbow have
>provided an
environment in which people like man who hit me have been given
>the
confidence to come out of the closet and unleash release their anger
>angst
anxieties on whoever they feel isn't one of them on their side...
Sounds like a
classic case of projection.
Anyhow, Levi
Asher probably read this message, but his e-mail is
brooklyn@netcom.com
Sorry that some
moron hit you. I hope he gets put away
for a good long
time, but
probably won't. Hope you feel better and
heal up well.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 19:24:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Iaquinta
<JIaqui2615@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Last Time I Committed Suicide
Although I am unfamiliar with the
recording you are discussing, I am
intriqued by the
term "Keroassidy." It seems to
me that your analysis of the
word is accurate
for a couple of reasons; first in consideration of the
emphasis on oral
presentation inherent in beat poetry--value of the feel,
taste, and cosmic
resonance of words regardless of definition, grammatical
usage, etc. and
secondly because your reaction in light of the previous
reason is
automatically correct (at least within the confines of your own
emotions, and
after all, what else matters?). You may
not be able to defend
your
position according to the
"rules" of traditional literary criticism,
and it sounds
like a diffucult point to defend incontrovertibly, but if thats
how it hits you,
go with it.
If you have an opportunity to expand on
the context in which the term
was used, for the
edification of the uninitiated, I for one would be very
interested. By the way congratulations on having found a
job with a boss you
can have these sort
of discussions with, I don't know what the pays like but
it certainly
sounds like a sweet deal to me.
In Reckless
Pursuit of Knowledge
John
"Don't Push
It, Let it Swing!"
John Pizzarelli
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 02:50:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Keroassady...
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<960503192436_106157487@emout08.mail.aol.com>
Hmmm...it makes
you think. What if there was only
Keroassady. I think
with Neal's soul
and Jack's ability to write, Keroassady truly would have
saved the human
race. We'd all be in heaven right
now...well, maybe. I
really do believe
that Jack and Neal were both truly special people.
(Allen too, and
still is). I just wonder what would have
happened if
they kept in
touch. I think both of their deaths were
partially caused
by their
seperation. Im sure this has been
discussed many times before
but it truly
intrigues me. Goddamn why'd they have to
die. I just want
to spend one
night with those two and Allen just talking about life and
everything.
I found some awesome books in a used
book store today. I was
wondering what
you guys think about the prices. $25 for
a first edition
of Visions of
Cody, hardcover. $30 for a 1rst ed. of
Maggie Cassidy,
soft. And $60 for the 1rst british ed. of Maggie
Cassidy, 1rst hardcover
ed. I didnt buy these but i did buy Satori in
Paris & Pic, Grace beats
Karma (finally,
ive found some of neals writings), On the Road (a copy
for my brother),
No nature (Snyder), Look Homeward, Angel (Wolfe), and a
book that
contains poems by Bukowski and Phillip Lamantia. All in all it
was a very
successful outing!
Goodnight
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
matt
"Jesus was
all virtue, and acted from impulse, not from rules."
-William Blake
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 08:38:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dolores Neese <dolores@CRL.COM>
Subject: Enjoy This
Hello all-
See where you fit
in the scheme from Toimothy Leary's Chaos & Cyber
Culture,
Berkeley, CA: Ronin, 1994.
Evolution of
Counter Culture
Beats (1950-1965)
Mood: Cool, laid back.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Artistic, literate, hip. Interested in poetry, drugs,
jazz.
Attitude:
Sarcastic, cynical.
Brain-Tech:
Low-tech, but early psychedelic explorers.
Intellectual
viewpoint: Well-informed, skeptical, street-smart.
Humanist
Quotient: tolerant of race and gay rights, but often male
chauvinist.
Politics:
Bohemian, anti-establishment.
Cosmic View:
Romantic pessimism, Buddhist cosmology.
Hippies
(1965-1975)
Mood: Blissed
out.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Earthy, horny, free-love oriented. pot, LSD, acid rock.
Attitude:
Peaceful, idealistic.
Brain-tech:
Spychedelic, but anti-high-tech.
Intellectual
Viewpoint: Know-it-all, anti-intellectual.
Humanist
Quotient: Male chauvinist, sometimes sexits, but socially
tolerant and global village
visionary.
Politics:
Classless, irreverent, passivist, but occasionally activist.
Cosmit View:
Acceptance of chaotic nature of universe, but via Hindu
passivity. Unscientific, occult
minded, intuitive.
Cyberpunks
(1975-1990)
Mood: Gloomy.
Hip, but downbeat.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Leather and grunge, tatoos, piercings. Hard drugs,
psychedelics, smart drugs.
Various forms of rock from
metal to rap.
Attitude: Angry,
cynical, feel undervalued buy elders.
Brain Tech: High-tech
electronic.
Intellectual
viewpoint: Informed, open-minded, irreverent. Inundated with
electronic signals.
Humanist
Quotient: Non-sexist, ecological, global minded.
Politics:
Alienated, skeptical.
Cosmid View:
Pessimist, but closet hope fiends.
New Breed
1990-2005)
Mood: Alert,
cheerful.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Invention of personal style. Eclectic. Prefer techno
and ambient music.
Attitude: Self
confident.
Brain-Tech:
Psychedelic, super high-tech. Smart drugs, brain machines,
Internet.
Intellectual
Viewpoint: Informed, open-minded, irreverent.
Humanist
Quotient: Tolerant, non-sexist, ecological, global.
Politics:
Detached, individualistic. Zen opportunists.
Cosmic View:
Acceptance of complexity, willingness to be a "chaos designer."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:13:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: RWhiteBone@AOL.COM
Subject: On the Road
Hello! Yes the
film version of On the Road is still on and good news is that
the book itself
will be the script. Have a little more info for anyone
interested and/or
if you'd like a copy of nearly 200 new titles by Kerouac,
Burroughs,
Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Corso, di Prima,
Baraka, Jan
Kerouac, Hunter S. Thompson, Jim Carroll, His Holiness The Dalai
Lama, Thomas
Merton, Robert Lax, Robert Hunter, Lee Ranaldo, BONO, Herbert
Huncke, James
Laughlin, Andy Warhol, Edvard Munch, Seamus Heaney, Rita Dove,
Anne Waldman, Ed
Sanders, Wendell Berry, Cathal O'Searcaigh, Eithne Strong,
John Updike,
Ron Whitehead, E.
Ethelbert Miller, Kent Fielding, Ron Seitz, David Amram,
Leon Driskell,
& numerous others from White Fields Press Published in Heaven
Poster, Book,
Chapbook, & Audio Series let me know at: Ron Whitehead, White
Fields Press,
1387 Lexington Road, Louisville, Kentucky 40206 USA. phone
502-568-4956 or
e-mail at
RWhiteBone@aol.com or check out Web site under construction at
http://www.neosoft.com/~whtfld/ Thanks! Ron Whitehead 5/05/96
11:12AM
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:19:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Cassady raps (repost)
This was posted
to the list several months back - A transcript of Cassady
rapping w/ the
Grateful Dead in July, 1967. Within the rap, one finds the
phrase:
"that was the last time I committed suicide", in the apparent context
of a reference to
three-way sex among Cassady, Kerouac, and a woman (not
clear which
woman). I don't see the "Keroassady" neologism here, but that may
have been
interpreted as mumbling by the original transcriber.
---------------begin
pasted text-----------------
>> (Neil)
>> I got
the penguin right here in my pocket <loud drums and
>>
guitars/Neil mumbling something> -four fingers, ya know, it's just
>> the claw
and me, three inches, bigger than- and
>> I said,
of course, in the Metro, as they, but it hides my thumb and
>> also
reveals my Greek torso, huh... At 49th, I said, Spence?
>> haven't
seen him since 51st he said move two, 49th, huh. Nope, move
>> to 51st.
<more mumbles/band begins playing> The waiter in 56th beat
>> the 6
seeds he had, seed law in marijuana, the only ratting I ever
>> did...
And now marijuana, oooo! I was saying in the- ya alright in
>> there,
(taps on the mic) on the wall, Mr Cassady? I only got twenty
>> years on
ya... I knew I shoulda worn more paisley. I double-crossed
>> him- no,
the son of the mAN is about to bounce the podiUM. Rimsby
>> was
impressed in a short drive, huh, I said I'm serious about
>> America
DeMarco, Greg, at the, uh, last year, ya know, we arrived
>> it from
time. <Lovelight-ish jam> Double-parkin' winamarker(?)
>> speeder
and derns(?) six days it was finally she grabbed the, of
>> course,
Vics vapor rub, it's in the vaseline, that's what ended it.
>> My first
child, forty, uh, two then, Charlie Valensia, on tempo(?)
>> where we
had an acid test, but thirteenfifty, his father, half
>> Mexican
half Irish like Anthony Quinn, so he loved me, ya know,
>> that was
a triumph-pf-of us, the only tree-way I ever had,
>>
Kerouac's not queer, but my present wife, the fourth, and he, it
>> was
just, NewYear's Eve, sort of, uh, we was always looking for a
>> colored
girl, Carol Ashty(?), finally found her, that was the last
>> time I
committed suicide, I knew toward the fourth sign, across the
>> Hudson,
get across this looong Missooouri that preacher said
>>
<mumble> or I didn't see it, move ooon. Ummm, ha-h-haa (to
>>
Lovelight.) -menopausal, don't ask me how, twenty years I fell ten
>> on the
railroad and ten more for, uh, and, uh, I'll be dead a
>> thousand
years see, so, if I don't do right now, right in it- Reb
>> Barker
the same acid test then, use to be Al Collins all fat and
>> sassy,
you know, but he was all skinny and dressed in a, uh, you
>> can work
yourself inta anything, how'd he get outta it? Six days,
>> uh, six
glasses a day pretty soon your system demands it thousand
>> days
Orabindo(?) says you've had it old joe alcoholic, you know, we
>> used to
drink together, but he went drinking. <mumbling> (music is
>> turned
up a bit/Neil still mumbling random words) -a German
>>
pornograpghy... Uummmbbuuuyyyyyy... He stay offer thou wake to
>> wake(?,)
oh, the name of that Christ don't call on that I said
>> that's
another, huh, then the next day November 1st is all souls,
>> all
saints. <music> Huhuhu. <skat-singing> He did nothin' I did
>> nothin',
and finally there's nothin', there wudn't nothin' he
>> wouldn't
do for me and nothin' I wouldn't do for him but we sat
>> around
all time doin' nothin'! Twentymilesanhourthe great four
>> wheel
drift he, uh, adjusting his goggles, ya know, everybody in
>> the
audience with their right foot but I can't heel and toe I'm
>> double
left, huh, Dooom-dee-dee-umm, dee-
--------------------end
text-------------------------------
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:04:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Derek Alexander Beaulieu <dabeauli@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To:
<960505111334_107003295@emout15.mail.aol.com>
ron
i sure would like
a copy of your catalog if such a thing exists. this
looks like just
the publishing co. i've been looking for some of the
harder to find
texts.
can you help?
derek beaulieu
dabeauli@acs.ucalgary.ca
On Sun, 5 May
1996 RWhiteBone@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Hello! Yes
the film version of On the Road is still on and good news is that
> the book
itself will be the script. Have a little more info for anyone
> interested
and/or if you'd like a copy of nearly 200 new titles by Kerouac,
> Burroughs,
Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Corso, di Prima,
> Baraka, Jan
Kerouac, Hunter S. Thompson, Jim Carroll, His Holiness The Dalai
> Lama, Thomas
Merton, Robert Lax, Robert Hunter, Lee Ranaldo, BONO, Herbert
> Huncke,
James Laughlin, Andy Warhol, Edvard Munch, Seamus Heaney, Rita Dove,
> Anne
Waldman, Ed Sanders, Wendell Berry, Cathal O'Searcaigh, Eithne Strong,
> John Updike,
> Ron
Whitehead, E. Ethelbert Miller, Kent Fielding, Ron Seitz, David Amram,
> Leon
Driskell, & numerous others from White Fields Press Published in Heaven
> Poster,
Book, Chapbook, & Audio Series let me know at: Ron Whitehead, White
> Fields Press,
1387 Lexington Road, Louisville, Kentucky 40206 USA. phone
> 502-568-4956
or e-mail at
>
RWhiteBone@aol.com or check out Web site
under construction at
>
http://www.neosoft.com/~whtfld/
Thanks! Ron Whitehead 5/05/96
> 11:12AM
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 14:27:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CANAPP <Canapp@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Leary's Chaos and Cyber Culture
Hi, all:
I just wanted to
thank Delores Neese for sharing Dr. Leary's thoughts with
all of us on our
current culture. Up until I read that, I'd always
considered myself
a "hippie", considering I'm too young to have been a
Beat. But, after
reading the descriptions, I find I am a Beat. It's the
only catgory that
really fits me. <g>. Anyway, just
wanted to thank her
again for sharing
that, it's really priceless.
Regarding Dr.
Leary, I guess everyone knows he is dying and plans to "take
himself out, on
his own terms", when the pain from his cancer becomes too
unbearable. There
are rumors all over the Net that he's going to do it
on-line and
videotape the whole thing. Not sure how I feel about that.
Those of you my
age, may remember in the early 1970's, the Moody Blues put
out an album, and
there was a song on it titled, I think, "Seventh
Sojourn," in
which they sang the lyrics, "Timothy Leary's dead," over and
over. I recently
heard that the members of the group recently had
telephone
conference call with Dr. Leary and sang to him over the phone,
"Timothy
Leary's Alive." I thought that was really wonderful.
Thanks for your
time,
Mary Beth
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:07:56 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Weir <weir@HALCYON.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassady raps (repost)
>This was
posted to the list several months back - A transcript of Cassady
>rapping w/
the Grateful Dead in July, 1967. Within the rap, one finds the
>phrase:
"that was the last time I committed suicide", in the apparent context
>of a
reference to three-way sex among Cassady, Kerouac, and a woman (not
>clear which
woman). I don't see the "Keroassady" neologism here, but that may
>have been
interpreted as mumbling by the original transcriber.
>
>---------------begin
pasted text-----------------
>
>>>
(Neil)
>>> I
got the penguin right here in my pocket <loud drums and
>>>
guitars/Neil mumbling something> -four fingers, ya know, it's just
>>> the
claw and me, three inches, bigger than- and
This is a poor
transcription with many errors.. check
out the one that was
refered to
earlier:
ftp://gdead.berkeley.edu/pub/gdead/miscellaneous/Cassady-Rap
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 21:14:46 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dr. Leary's Chaos and Cyber Culture
Comments: To:
CANAPP <Canapp@cris.com>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.93.960505141327.16735B-100000@mariner.cris.com>
On Sun, 5 May
1996, CANAPP wrote:
> Regarding
Dr. Leary, I guess everyone knows he is dying and plans to "take
> himself out,
on his own terms", when the pain from his cancer becomes too
> unbearable.
There are rumors all over the Net that he's going to do it
> on-line and
videotape the whole thing. Not sure how I feel about that.
Check out:
http://www.leary.com
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 16:33:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: a brief history of the literary
renaissance & White Fields
Press
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: a brief history of the literary renaissance
& White Fields Press
Date: 96-05-05 16:31:47 EDT
From: RWhiteBone
To: whtfld@neosoft.com
Hello Dave!
Here's updated Mission Statement & brief history of White Fields
Press & the
literary renaissance that I think should be added to Web Site.
Mission Statement
a brief history
of White Fields Press and the literary renaissance
"We would
experience a little of the secret movements which are made
unnoticed in the
remote places of the soul, the capricious disorder of
perceptions, the
delicate life of fantasy held under the magnifying glass,
the wanderings of
these thoughts and feelings out of the blue; motionless,
trackless
journeys with the brain and the heart, strange activities of the
nerves, the
whispering of the blood, the pleading of the bone, the entire
unconscious life
of the mind." Knut Hamsun
Art is a kind of
innate drive that seizes a human being and makes her or him
its instrument.
The artist is not simply a person acting freely, in pursuit
of a merely
private end, but one who allows art to realize its purposes
through her or
his person. Artists have moods, free will, personal aims, but
as artists they
are bearers of a collective humanity, carrying and shaping
the common unconscious
life of the species.
so what, so what
is the literary renaissance?
"The only
war that matters is the war against the imagination all other wars
are sumsumed in
it." Diane di Prima
The psychic
makeup of creative persons attracts attention, but the actual
artistic
achievement is the bedrock of inquiry when it is directed toward
understanding the
artist, for the artistic disposition adheres to a charisma
that attaches to
the 'office' and has collective aspects.
"To be an
artist is to fail, as no other dare fail."
Samuel Beckett
On April 23,1993,
after meditating on Thomas Merton's grave, outside the
Abbey at
Gethsemani, with Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Ron Whitehead and Kent
Fielding formed
the literary renaissance, a culturally diverse, non-profit
organization,
supporting a global literary community. Their goal is to create
a discourse, to
give a voice, an equal voice, to those who haven't been heard
(minorities,
women: all races, all people) without excluding anyone. Their
mission is
inclusive: to create a place where the creative imagination is the
vital source and
all people stand on and share common ground, a place where
known and unknown
walk hand in hand. Their goal is to remind people,
regardless of
vocation or lifestyle, of the importance of the creative
imagination in
our lives. The creative imagination can open doorways, provide
salvation from an
apparently hopeless existence, inspire us to achieve goals,
dreams, visions.
And as stress eats at our lives, often compelling people to
intentionally end
their lives in suicide, we can be reminded through the
imagination to
never give up, to know that there is always another way, an
alternative path
to life, to living not just a mundane life but a full and
inspired one.
Ron and Kent had
formed an alliance, on February 4, 1992 at the University of
Louisville where,
in fifteen months, they published four issues of THINKER
REVIEW, an
international journal for the arts (including a women's poetry
anthology, THE
DARK WOODS I CROSS), plus sponsored over 100 readings,
concerts and
festivals including readings by Diane di Prima, Amiri Baraka,
Allen Ginsberg
(over 1,500 people attended. the largest poetry reading in
Kentucky
history), Rashida Ismaili, Eithne Strong, Lawrence Ferlinghetti,
Gregory Corso,
Douglas Brinkley, Michael Waters, James Baker hall, Robert
Hunter, Sarah
Gorham, Ray McNiese, Richard Cambridge, Jeffrey Skinner, Johnny
Payne, Maureen
Morehead, Brian Foye, Michael Burkard, Michelle Boisseau, Jim
Wayne Miller, Ron
Seitz, Mama Yaa, E. Ethelbert Miller and many others. Since
February 1992,
they have worked sixty to eighty hours per week, with a host
of volunteers, to
sponsor over 100 events per year (Moving Mystery Theatre)
including
readings, talks, concerts, festivals and an international reading
series, in
schools, universities, parks, galleries, clubs, theatres, and
country
firehouses.
In October 1993,
after two successful 24-hour non-stop music and poetry
INSOMNIACATHONS
held at Twice Told Coffeehouse on Bardstown Road in
Louisville,
Kentucky, the literary renaissance held INSOMNIACATHON '93, a
4-day non-stop
music and poetry festival (the largest in Kentucky history)
featuring over
100 poets and more than 40 bands. The event was held at 3
different
locations in Louisville: The Silo, Tewligan's and the main stage at
The Brewery's
THUNDERDOME.
In 1994 the
literary renaissance organized and presented INSOMNIACATHONS to
kick off New York
University's (NYU hired Ron) "50 Year Celebration of The
Beat
Generation" (48-hours non-stop, May 16-18, NYC), the annual "Lowell
Celebrate Kerouac
Festival" (24-hours non-stop, September 21-22, Lowell, MA),
and
INSOMNIACATHON '94 (4-days non-stop, September 29-October 2) in
Louisville
Gardens and Twice Told Coffeehouse. White Fields Press, also
operated by Ron
Whitehead and Kent Fielding, in support of the literary
renaissance and
the global literary community, has published 150 titles in
its Published in
Heaven Poster, Book, Chapbook, South Africa, Hunter S.
Thompson, and
Audio Series. They have over 50 new titles scheduled for
production in
1996 pushing total titles published by year's end to 200. The
two
organizations, White Fields Press and the literary renaissance, had been
kept alive by
Ron, since the beginning, by the seat of his pants. By
bartering and
bargaining with poets, writers, musicians, bands, and printers
he created ways
to produce each new event and publish each new title. He
faced
overwhelming odds and had near death, near failure, dark night of the
soul experiences
several times in his struggle to keep the literary
renaissance and
White Fields Press alive. In 1995 Gary Oleson and Waiting for
Godot helped
sustain Ron's efforts. In December 1995 David Hatfield, Houston
Texas, longtime
supporter and friendof Ron's literary endeavors, joined
forces with Ron.
David is a poet, writer, & lover of literature by nature, a
businessperson by
necessity. The new partnership is striving to expand the
mission of White
Fields Press and the literary renaissance while maintaining
the original
goals and vision. The intent is to support, in every way
possible, the
global literary community. Kent Fielding, still active as
editor, has gone
on to be NorthWest Manager by opening a WFP/tlr office in
Fairbanks,
Alaska.
Knowledge, from
the inception of Modernism (& thru Post-Modernism to The
Ocean of
Consciousness), is reorganized, redefined through literature, art
and music. The
genres are changing, the canons are exploding, as is culture.
The mythopoetics,
the privileged sense of sight, of modern, contemporary,
avant-garde
poets, musicians, artists, are examples of art forms of a
society, a
culture, a civilization, a world, in which humanity lives, not
securely in
cities nor innocently in the country, but on the apocalyptic,
simultaneous edge
of a new realm of being and understanding. The mythopoet,
female and male,
returns to the role of prophet-seer by creating myths that
resonate in the
minds of readers, myths that speak with the authority of the
ancient myths,
myths that are gifts from the shadow.
RANT for the
literary renaissance!
UPCOMING EVENTS:
Release of Ron
Whitehead's I WILL NOT BOW DOWN: Selected Poems 1990-95.
Available City
Lights, Tower Books, order thru bookstores or direct from
Hozomeen Press
(Mystic, NYC, Westerly), Box 174, Mystic, CT 06355 or
HozmnPress@aol.com
RANT for the
literary renaissance & The Majic Bus present RANT eats New
Orleans 48-Hour
Non-Stop Music & Poetry INSOMNIACATHON August 16-18 at The
Howlin Wolf Club
& The New Orleans Contemporary Arts Center. For performance
& event info
call Ron Whitehead at 502-568-4956 (RWHiteBone@aol.com) or
Douglas Brinkley
at 504-286-6724.
Ron Whitehead
Europe Reading Tour, September.
Hunter S. Thompson
& Douglas Brinkley visit Louisville then travel on with
Ron Whitehead to
RocknRoll Hall of Fame (Cleveland) for Hunter talk then on
to NYC for Modern
Library Celebrity Bash Celebrating Modern Library Release
of 25th
Anniversary Special Edition of Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:32:58 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Re: Cassady-Kerouac
Regarding the
term Keroassady I think Neal would've noticed the word acid in
the name, giving
him more reason to use it at a Grateful Dead concert. For
a description of
one of his performances check out issue number 6 of Spit in
the Ocean.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Gray
Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
CSIRO Division of
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:06:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Beat writing...
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.93.960505141327.16735B-100000@mariner.cris.com>
Hi again..
I had a really
groovy experience tonight..I just sat down, and I had so
much to think
about, and so much running through my mind, so I just
pulled up MSWord
and started to type and type and type and not bother to
go back and fix
little things unless I wanted to and just run on and run
on. It was just a complete outpouring of my mind
onto paper, like some
of Neal's
letters, so packed and so full of stuff...wow!
It was quite an
experience to
actually do, to let it just happen and flow...has anyone
else had this
similiar experience? Where they just sat
down and WROTE?
I'd be interested
in discussing this further...
jonathan
-------------
Jonathan Kratter
jonkrat@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us
"I can't use contractions..."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:04:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Dr. Leary's Chaos and Cyber Culture
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.93.960505141327.16735B-100000@mariner.cris.com>
In regards to Dr.
Leary's classification of persons, I don't think it
fits. I don't think you can classify generations
and groups like you
would classify
phylum and species---it just doesn't work. There aren't
clearly defined
lines, they're blurred together, and if one begins to
classify oneself
one becomes the stereotype classification, because
that's what his
classification was, over-stereotyping.
For instance, a
friend of mine is
called a hippie all the time because she wears long,
flowy, "hippie-like"
garments and wears Birkenstocks.
Unfortunately,
nothing could be
further from the truth-- she is as obnoxious a punk as
Sid Vicious and
Johnny Rotten combined-- but she thinks she is a hippie
because that's
what she has been stereotyped as. Even
though she is
really rotten,
obnoxious, and an exhibitionist brat.
But anyways, back
to my point-- Dr.
Leary's classification over-classified people.
If he
had not given
dates, drugs, and various physical objects and had instead
identified just identified
commmon values and feelings about things, that
would be much
different, because then it would represent the group. To
be Beat was to
feel something, to feel that beat BUG that gets under you
skin and makes
you just wanna write, write, write. I
get that bug,
sometimes, and I
can't stop writing. That's a Beat
characteristic, I
think. Promoting universal love and universal
acceptance seems to be a
Hippie
characteristic, but I don't know enough about either to say for
total
certainty. And Leary's garbage about
"Cyberpunks" is just that,
garbage. Cyberpunk is a term overused by the sluttish
media in reference
to people who're
think they're counter-culture but are really just trendy
when they use the
internet. Arghh...I am getting really
fed up with all
this
"cyber-culture" crap, you know.
I saw this book, "How to Mutate and
Take Over the
World" by R.U. Sirius and St. Jude, but it's not a book,
see, it's an
exploded post novel, or basically just a collection of
garbage
writing. I opened it and I didn't really
like what I read,
because it
garbage. I guess they thought maybe it
was kinda Beat to
write without
thinking but it wasn't spontaneous prose, because
spontaneous prose
has a train of thought that you can follow, and I don't
think this book
did. Now, I haven't read it yet, but I
am going to try
and read it and
see if my fears are true. Anyways, all
this
cyber-garbage,
how the media makes everything out to be so sensational
and interesting
and the World Wide Web is this and the WWW is that and
all this just
garbage that isn't true and how the interent is or isn't
censored and just
a lot of stuff that is all nonsense in someways. Yeah,
the internet
explosion is good, in some ways, but a lot of the internet
is empty. For instance, mailing lists are really
excellent, instant
communication
that's easy and fast...but some of the stuff you see on the
Web is such
nonsense you just want to puke, and cyber this and cyber that
and ERGGHH>..
oh well..
jonathan
-------------
Jonathan Kratter
jonkrat@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us
"I can't use contractions..."
On Sun, 5 May
1996, CANAPP wrote:
> Hi, all:
>
> I just
wanted to thank Delores Neese for sharing Dr. Leary's thoughts with
> all of us on
our current culture. Up until I read that, I'd always
> considered
myself a "hippie", considering I'm too young to have been a
> Beat. But,
after reading the descriptions, I find I am a Beat. It's the
> only catgory
that really fits me. <g>. Anyway,
just wanted to thank her
> again for
sharing that, it's really priceless.
>
> Regarding
Dr. Leary, I guess everyone knows he is dying and plans to "take
> himself out,
on his own terms", when the pain from his cancer becomes too
> unbearable.
There are rumors all over the Net that he's going to do it
> on-line and
videotape the whole thing. Not sure how I feel about that.
>
> Those of you
my age, may remember in the early 1970's, the Moody Blues put
> out an
album, and there was a song on it titled, I think, "Seventh
>
Sojourn," in which they sang the lyrics, "Timothy Leary's dead,"
over and
> over. I
recently heard that the members of the group recently had
> telephone
conference call with Dr. Leary and sang to him over the phone,
>
"Timothy Leary's Alive." I thought that was really wonderful.
>
> Thanks for
your time,
>
> Mary Beth
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:12:36 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat writing...
>jonathan
wrote:
>I had a
really groovy experience tonight..I just sat down, and I had so
>much to think
about, and so much running through my mind, so I just
>pulled up
MSWord and started to type and type and type and not bother to
>go back and
fix little things unless I wanted to and just run on and run
>on. It was just a complete outpouring of my mind
onto paper, like some
>of Neal's
letters, so packed and so full of stuff...wow!
It was quite an
>experience to
actually do, to let it just happen and flow...has anyone
>else had this
similiar experience? Where they just sat
down and WROTE?
>I'd be
interested in discussing this further...
Great to hear of
your experience! Sounds like it has changed you in some
way. Keep on.
I've done a bit
of writing that way. I'll sit down, turn on the computer,
set up a page and
just start writing. Take the first thought to enter my
mind and just go
with it till I finish a page. That's it. One page flowing
out from
somewhere onto the screen. Started a few years ago and do so every
once in a while.
One screen's worth of stream stuff.
I remember
reading somewhere recently that Jack would carry a small pocket
notebook around
and some of his poetry, the blues stuff, SF and Mex City,
were written to
fit a page in the little book. Form limited in size by what
written on!
Computer screens, pocket notebooks.
Some people see
spontaneous writing as just an exercise but I strongly
disagree with
them. The letting it go, letting it come out as it does, the
more you do it
the easier it gets, like with most things. There's the craft
of writing, which
is important, and then there's the pure
creative/spiritual
side of it which to me is where the real excitement
lies. The
spontaneous writing, when we really allow the spontaneity without
our self critic
looking over our shoulder at each line we write, allows
that pure
creative/spiritual aspect to surface more often.
Keep letting it
flow.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:27:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<robert.peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat writing...
the craft
>of writing,
which is important, and then there's the pure
>creative/spiritual
side of it which to me is where the real excitement
>lies. The
spontaneous writing, when we really allow the spontaneity without
>our self
critic looking over our shoulder at each line we write, allows
>that pure
creative/spiritual aspect to surface more often.
>
This may be
therapeutic, but if you intend to publish, don't torture your
readers with
every random thought that pops out of your head. Stream of
consciousness is
prose that suggests thought at a preverbal level, but in
order to do that,
you must edit carefully and construct that consciousness.
Read Joyce's
_Ulysses_ and _Finnegan's Wake_ as well as Faulkner's _The
Sound and the
Fury_ (esp. the first two sections).
I think most
writers try to rid themselves of the "self critic" (I know I
do), but it is
much more difficult than it sounds. When
it happens, go!
But when you're
done, revise, and when you're done revising, edit.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:44:15 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassady-Kerouac
Jon Schwartz
wrote:
>
> Hi John H.!
>
> Thanks for
the tip on the new edition of "The First Third." Do you or does
> anyone have
price and format info on it?
>
> Best regards
to all,
>
> Jon
>
TFT is in print
from City Lights Books and is usually available at the
big superstores
like Border's and Barnes & Noble. Shop by phone!
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:48:18 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: The Last Time I Committed Suicide
Dear John I.
The Cassady Rap
under discussion can be found at the following URL:
ftp://gdead.berkeley.edu/pub/gdead/miscellaneous/Cassady-Rap
Later,
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:54:39 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Keroassady...
Matthew S
Sackmann wrote:
>
> I found some awesome books in a used
book store today. I was
> wondering
what you guys think about the prices.
$25 for a first edition
> of Visions
of Cody, hardcover. $30 for a 1rst ed.
of Maggie Cassidy,
> soft. And $60 for the 1rst british ed. of Maggie
Cassidy, 1rst hardcover
> ed. I didnt buy these but i did buy Satori in
Paris & Pic, Grace beats
> Karma
(finally, ive found some of neals writings), On the Road (a copy
> for my
brother), No nature (Snyder), Look Homeward, Angel (Wolfe), and a
> book that
contains poems by Bukowski and Phillip Lamantia. All in all it
> was a very
successful outing!
> Goodnight
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> matt
>
$25 for 1st ed.
VOC is fantastic. Buy it immediately. I've seen it for
$100. MC in
softcover isn't worth a penny more than $30 nowadays. It
depends on the
condition. If it's perfect and you want it, get it.
Don't know about
the British edition.
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:40:46 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat writing...
Jonathan, that is
supposedly the way Whitman wrote the first draft of Leaves of
Grass. This first
non-stream writing is published in a seperate Penguin edition
with an
interesting forward by Malcom Cowley about "trance writing." Give it
a
look.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:14:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: I'm moving...
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <009A1EC0.F2A51420.26@kenyon.edu>
Im going home
today and my email is changing, but i want to stay on the list.
Could someone
please send me info to : lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU
i guess ill just
subscribe again. but i forgot how to, so
id love it if
someone sent me
the information to the above address.
Thanks a lot!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
matt
"Jesus was
all virtue, and acted from impulse, not from rules."
-William Blake
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:39:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Michael E. Frank"
<ATRANE207@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Enjoy This
Hi;
Just a few
thoughts on "Chaos & Cyber Culture" List...I mailed the list to a
friend and he
commented "I seem to fit in all the categories but looking back
it seems (the
list) a bit shallower than I remember". I
tend to agree
although I can
only identify with the years ' 54 - ' 75
since I opted for
the
"rat-race" in ' 72 when my daughter was born. No regrets but I don't
remember anything
after ' 75. Since the counter-culture of the "beats" &
sixties weren't
created in a vacuum I thought it might be historically
interesting to
regress the list to include "The Lost Generation"
(ex-patriates, G.
Stein, Paris, etc.) Surrealists (auto-writing, painting
etc), dada, etc.
as far back as one can create a list of the genealogy of
rebellion and
counter-culture. Expand it to include anything of creative
interest that Leary
didn't envision. Also, since i'm new to
this discussion,
I apoligise to
anyone infuriated with my leaving (expanding) the Beat topic.
Let me know if
I'm not relevant to the subject matter.
>See where you
fit in the scheme from Toimothy Leary's Chaos & Cyber
Culture,
Berkeley, CA: Ronin, 1994.
Evolution of
Counter Culture
Beats (1950-1965)
Mood: Cool, laid back.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Artistic, literate, hip. Interested in poetry, drugs,
jazz.
Attitude:
Sarcastic, cynical.
Brain-Tech:
Low-tech, but early psychedelic explorers.
Intellectual
viewpoint: Well-informed, skeptical, street-smart.
Humanist
Quotient: tolerant of race and gay rights, but often male
chauvinist.
Politics:
Bohemian, anti-establishment.
Cosmic View:
Romantic pessimism, Buddhist cosmology.
Hippies
(1965-1975)
Mood: Blissed
out.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Earthy, horny, free-love oriented. pot, LSD, acid rock.
Attitude:
Peaceful, idealistic.
Brain-tech:
Spychedelic, but anti-high-tech.
Intellectual
Viewpoint: Know-it-all, anti-intellectual.
Humanist
Quotient: Male chauvinist, sometimes sexits, but socially
tolerant and global village
visionary.
Politics:
Classless, irreverent, passivist, but occasionally activist.
Cosmit View:
Acceptance of chaotic nature of universe, but via Hindu
passivity. Unscientific, occult
minded, intuitive
etc. etc. etc..
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:44:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: MS GAYLE M ALSTROM
<gm_alstrom@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Mail List
Please remove my
name from your mailing list.
gm_alstrom@prodigy.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 23:06:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: The only cows for me are the mad ones
I can't quite
jibe Leary's description of Beats with Beat writing.
E.g.:
>Mood: Cool, laid back.
the beat
principals strike me more as leaning into rather than laid back,
with the possible
exception of Burroughs
>Attitude:
Sarcastic, cynical.
No. But then
again, I'm thinking about the writers and writing, he's talking
about the
culture.
>Cosmic View:
Romantic pessimism, Buddhist cosmology.
Again, I'm not
sure about the pessimism. Off the top of my head, I can't
remember reading
any pessimistic Kerouac; sad, tortured, yes, but not
pessimistic.
Ginsberg, no - in fact, the two cosmic views selected by Leary
seem exactly
opposed. But again, Burroughs, yes.
Where's the
beatific in Leary's summary?
Just thinkin' out
loud......and pouting 'cause I wanted to see Wm. T.
Vollmann in
Chicago today, and didn't get to....
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:40:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Beat writing...
In-Reply-To: <v01530500adb343f59b90@[204.181.15.86]>
Exactly...you
just let it flow...much like the style that On the Road was
written in only
moreso, more like Catcher in The Rye, which is mocked
spontaneous
prose, the spontaneous prose of Holden Caulfield, but done by
Salinger...
drink deeply,
jonathan
-------------
Jonathan Kratter
jonkrat@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us
"I can't use contractions..."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 04:11:03 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: celestine prophecy
the book
'celestine prophecy' was mentioned on this list lately. i'd never
heard about it
(i'm in the uk) but at the time it was mentioned, i met a white
south-african
girl in spain who had read it and recommended it quite highly.
sooo, i went out
and bought it, just finished reading it and would like some
off-list ideas
from beat readers who have also read it.
so anyone out
there read it please e-mail me on
100106.1102@compuserve.com or
joe.carney@unn.ac.uk
cheers
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 07:57:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Michael E. Frank"
<ATRANE207@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Enjoy This
Hi;
Just a few
thoughts on "Chaos & Cyber Culture" List...I mailed the list to a
friend and he
commented "I seem to fit in all the categories but looking back
it seems (the
list) a bit shallower than I remember". I
tend to agree
although I can
only identify with the years ' 54 - ' 75
since I opted for
the "rat-race"
in ' 72 when my daughter was born. No regrets but I don't
remember anything
after ' 75. Since the counter-culture of the "beats" &
sixties weren't
created in a vacuum I thought it might be historically
interesting to
regress the list to include "The Lost Generation"
(ex-patriates, G.
Stein, Paris, etc.) Surrealists (auto-writing, painting
etc), dada, etc.
as far back as one can create a list of the genealogy of
rebellion and
counter-culture. Expand it to include anything of creative
interest that
Leary didn't envision. Also, since i'm
new to this discussion,
I apoligise to
anyone infuriated with my leaving (expanding) the Beat topic.
Let me know if
I'm not relevant to the subject matter.
>See where you
fit in the scheme from Toimothy Leary's Chaos & Cyber
Culture,
Berkeley, CA: Ronin, 1994.
Evolution of
Counter Culture
Beats (1950-1965)
Mood: Cool, laid back.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Artistic, literate, hip. Interested in poetry, drugs,
jazz.
Attitude:
Sarcastic, cynical.
Brain-Tech:
Low-tech, but early psychedelic explorers.
Intellectual
viewpoint: Well-informed, skeptical, street-smart.
Humanist
Quotient: tolerant of race and gay rights, but often male
chauvinist.
Politics:
Bohemian, anti-establishment.
Cosmic View:
Romantic pessimism, Buddhist cosmology.
Hippies
(1965-1975)
Mood: Blissed
out.
Aesthetics-Erotics:
Earthy, horny, free-love oriented. pot, LSD, acid rock.
Attitude:
Peaceful, idealistic.
Brain-tech:
Spychedelic, but anti-high-tech.
Intellectual
Viewpoint: Know-it-all, anti-intellectual.
Humanist
Quotient: Male chauvinist, sometimes sexits, but socially
tolerant and global village
visionary.
Politics:
Classless, irreverent, passivist, but occasionally activist.
Cosmit View:
Acceptance of chaotic nature of universe, but via Hindu
passivity. Unscientific, occult
minded, intuitive
etc. etc. etc..
==============
End part 2 ============================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:48:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Look Homeward, Matt.
Hello folks. William Miller here. Back on the list after an absence.
Matthew S
Sackmann wrote:
>
> I found some awesome books in a used
book store today. I was
> wondering
what you guys think about the prices.
$25 for a first edition
> of Visions
of Cody, hardcover. $30 for a 1rst ed.
of Maggie Cassidy,
> soft. And $60 for the 1rst british ed. of Maggie
Cassidy, 1rst hardcover
> ed. I didnt buy these but i did buy Satori in
Paris & Pic, Grace beats
> Karma
(finally, ive found some of neals writings), On the Road (a copy
> for my
brother), No nature (Snyder), Look Homeward, Angel (Wolfe), and a
> book that
contains poems by Bukowski and Phillip Lamantia. All in all it
> was a very
successful outing!
> Goodnight
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> matt
Matt, I'm
interested.... did you buy a 1st edition of Look Homeward Angel, or
not. Please e-mail me directly and let me know if
you bought a 1st, and if
so, what you paid
for it. Being part of the best used
bookstore in Wolfe's
hometown (the
setting for most of LHA) I am always interested in knowing what
LHA is fetching.
Thanks.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:11:44 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Peter R. McGahey"
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Salinger
Someone mentioned
Salinger - what does everyone think of him in relation
to the
Beats? They were contemporaries, but
Salinger did what Jack may have
wanted to do, get
away from the screaming fans. I think
that Salinger's
explorations of
Buddhism, particularly in his good works (Franny & Zooey,
Raise High . . .)
would put him in some connection even though it is rather
tenuous. Why was Buddhism such a rave thing then? Eliot et al were into
Hindu etc because
the Bagavad Gita (mis-spelled, I know) was recently
translated.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 11:42:13 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Visions of Cody - Revisited
I've finally gotten around to reading
Kerouac's "Visions of Cody"... It's my
first time
tackling this book (although not the first Kerouac book I've read)
and I am simply
amazed at the amount of detail contained within... For example,
the book opens
with a description of a diner and everything in it:
"Grill is
ancient and dark and emits an odor which is really succulent, like you
would expect from
the black hide of an old ham or an old pastrami beef -- The
lunchcart has
stools with smooth slickwood tops -- there are wooden drawers for
where you find
the long loaves of sandwich bread. The countermen: either Greeks
or have big red
drink noses." (p.3)
Incredible stuff.
I often find myself going over certain passages again in an
attempt to absorb
all the details... Another thing that blows me away about this
book, is the
sense of history Kerouac gives to the simplest descriptions....
"...Cody
imagined Watson slept like the little boys in fleecy nightgowns in
mattress
advertisements of the Saturday Evening Post, which he realized now he
was confusing
with a rubber tire ad that shows a little boy wandering out of bed
with a candle on
New Year's Eve but expresses the same tender comfort of angels
and vision of
American children (ah poor Cody who'd seen this vision in those
soaked magazines
that have been dried by the sun and stand on tattered edges
among weeds and
cundrums of backlots)," (p. 62)
I think the power
of Kerouac's prose is his ability to create such a vivid
picture of what
he's talking about/describing in your mind... like a little
movie that only
you can imagine... I've only read about 90 or so pages and it
find it to be a
captivating read. wow.
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 11:02:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Timothy Gallaher
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited
> I've finally gotten around to reading
Kerouac's "Visions of Cody"... It's
>my
>first time
tackling this book (although not the first Kerouac book I've read)
>and I am
simply amazed at the amount of detail contained within... For example,
>the book
opens with a description of a diner and everything in it:
>
>"Grill
is ancient and dark and emits an odor which is really succulent, like
>you
>would expect
from the black hide of an old ham or an old pastrami beef -- The
>lunchcart has
stools with smooth slickwood tops -- there are wooden drawers for
>where you
find the long loaves of sandwich bread. The countermen: either Greeks
>or have big
red drink noses." (p.3)
>
>Incredible
stuff. I often find myself going over certain passages again in an
>attempt to
absorb all the details... Another thing that blows me away about
>this
>book, is the
sense of history Kerouac gives to the simplest descriptions....
>
>"...Cody
imagined Watson slept like the little boys in fleecy nightgowns in
>mattress
advertisements of the Saturday Evening Post, which he realized now he
>was confusing
with a rubber tire ad that shows a little boy wandering out of
>bed
>with a candle
on New Year's Eve but expresses the same tender comfort of angels
>and vision of
American children (ah poor Cody who'd seen this vision in those
>soaked
magazines that have been dried by the sun and stand on tattered edges
>among weeds
and cundrums of backlots)," (p. 62)
>
>I think the
power of Kerouac's prose is his ability to create such a vivid
>picture of
what he's talking about/describing in your mind... like a little
>movie that
only you can imagine... I've only read about 90 or so pages and it
>find it to be
a captivating read. wow.
>
>bfn,
>JDL
Only 90 pages so
far...Keep going (though I doubt I have to exhort you to
do this.
Your points are
good. These things are why kerouac is a
great writer and
has lasted and
will last. I think the classic writers
put these details
in. They do two things at least which are provide
the details of life in
their
time--including seemingly mundane things like drawers in a diner
where the long
loaves of bread are kept, and also proovide their personal
stories and
thoughts going on with the characters in context of their real
world.
It's like taking
a little chunk of existence of certain times and lifes and
laminating it or
bronzing it or somehow making it available for posterity.
It is not inlike
a portrait or photograph. The writing
you described above
is an example of
kerouac's sketching method of writing he developed as
inspired by his
architect friend (Ed White? Alan
Temko?--I can't remember
whom, but I do
know it was the one who had his letters from kerouac
recently
published in Missouri Review). The
architect friend kept a pad
and when he saw
buildings of interest to him he pulled it out and sketched
them. kerouac borrowed this technique and puled out
a notepad and
"sketched"
the things he saw--eg a diner. Much of
the first part of
Visions of Cody
is this sketching. Parts of this book
were first published
in a book called
"The Moderns" edited by LeRoi Jones (who now calls himself
Amiri Baraka and
hangs out with Farakan). The samples
from Visions of Cody
in The Moderns
was called New York Scenes. Of interest
is that if you read
the published
Visions of Cody and compare it to the part published as New
York Scenes you
see that Jones added a sentence or two to Kerouacs writing
that make overt
sociopolitical points. Interesting how
Kerouac always
fought to not
have his writings snipped by editors but in this case
something was
added to his writing. Wonder what
Kerouac thought of this.
If you're on page
90 now just wait. Whereas so far you've
read strong
descriptive
prose, albeit dense in words and sentence structure, you will
come to some wild
and wooly rivers in the next few hundred pages.
The
first couple
sections are downright realistic and down to Earth, when the
third part (I
hope I am remembering the sections correctly--I haven't read
the book in years
and don't have a copy of it), the third section is a
transcript of a
tape recording which ostensibly would be more realism but
it turns out to
be more surreal. And then the fourth
part called imitation
of the tape moves
into the realm of pure thought and free association and
mind
wandering--full of the beauty of language and imagery of an educated
mind (a
multi-lingual one at that).
So the book moves
from realistic to surrealistic (for lack of a better term
I'm using
surrealistic).
Well, you get the
idea, I think I'm becoming (as if I haven't been the
whole time)
boring. It many ways the book is like
Dr. Sax with
straightforward
descriptions of real life (as straightforward, that is, as
Kerouac's dense
prose allows) combined with the hyperrealistic nongrounded
in objective
reality parts. They combine to create a
whole.
Also I am
wondering if anyone has any info as to what was included in the
initial 1960 new
Directions abridged version of Visions of Cody?
Did they
include the new
york scenes part of the book but leave out the more far-out
parts such as the
Imitation of the Tape section? If so it
reminds me of
the initial offer
made to Kerouac concerning Dr. Sax where the potential
publisher (Wyn?)
suggested the fantastic parts of Sax be removed to leave a
narrative of
boyhood.
Zai jian,
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:07:56 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The only cows for me are the mad ones
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 6 May 1996 23:06:11 -0400
from <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
I think Leary is
right about a certain pessimism inherent in Kerouac.
Kerouac was
particularly pessimistic about the fate of America or the
loss of America's
promise. He referred to the later half
of the 20th
century in
America as a period of "Late Empire." Look at Lonesome
Traveler--"the
woods are full of wardens."
Ginsberg is more optimistic,
if only because
he expects some kind of miracle, some redemption through
tender
heartedness. Nevertheless, there's a lot
of pain and fear and
disappointment
about America in all the major poems.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:34:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Salinger
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 10:11:44 EDT from
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
I think there are
some connections. In fact, I once wrote
some notes for an ar
ticle comparing K
and Salinger. Hmmm! Maybe, I'll see if I can dig them up.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:33:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited
This is true
Kerouac. Wouldn't it be great to hear Jack read this book.I
read or heard
somewhere that he thought this was his best book. Does anyone
else have
opinions about that? My 14 year old son was talking about food one
day and I had him
read that very passage where he talks about Hectors deli
and he was
smiling all the way through it. Phil
At 11:42 AM
5/7/96 EST, you wrote:
> I've finally gotten around to reading
Kerouac's "Visions of Cody"...
It's my
>first time
tackling this book (although not the first Kerouac book I've read)
>and I am
simply amazed at the amount of detail contained within... For example,
>the book
opens with a description of a diner and everything in it:
>
>"Grill
is ancient and dark and emits an odor which is really succulent,
like you
>would expect
from the black hide of an old ham or an old pastrami beef -- The
>lunchcart has
stools with smooth slickwood tops -- there are wooden drawers for
>where you
find the long loaves of sandwich bread. The countermen: either Greeks
>or have big
red drink noses." (p.3)
>
>Incredible
stuff. I often find myself going over certain passages again in an
>attempt to
absorb all the details... Another thing that blows me away about
this
>book, is the
sense of history Kerouac gives to the simplest descriptions....
>
>"...Cody
imagined Watson slept like the little boys in fleecy nightgowns in
>mattress
advertisements of the Saturday Evening Post, which he realized now he
>was confusing
with a rubber tire ad that shows a little boy wandering out
of bed
>with a candle
on New Year's Eve but expresses the same tender comfort of angels
>and vision of
American children (ah poor Cody who'd seen this vision in those
>soaked
magazines that have been dried by the sun and stand on tattered edges
>among weeds
and cundrums of backlots)," (p. 62)
>
>I think the
power of Kerouac's prose is his ability to create such a vivid
>picture of
what he's talking about/describing in your mind... like a little
>movie that
only you can imagine... I've only read about 90 or so pages and it
>find it to be
a captivating read. wow.
>
>bfn,
>JDL
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:10:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Salinger
In-Reply-To: <960507.101447.EDT.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
oh oh oh! Teacher, teacher, call on me, teacher! No, actually, we were
discussing this
in english today, and everyone called the Beats
beatniks...that
bugs me, ya know? It just seems so
degrading to Jack and
Allen and Neal
and others...anyways...Salinger's relationship to the
Beats, I think,
is really strong in "Catcher in the Rye" with Holden
Caulfield's
exasperation with materialism and J.D. Salinger's simulated
spontaneous prose
and the entire attitude of the book, that is, how
someone actually
thinks and talks...
jonathan
-------------
Jonathan Kratter
jonkrat@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us
"What kind of sordid business are
you on now? I mean, man,
whither goest thou? Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car
in
the night?"
-On the Road, Jack Kerouac
On Tue, 7 May
1996, Peter R. McGahey wrote:
> Someone
mentioned Salinger - what does everyone think of him in relation
> to the
Beats? They were contemporaries, but Salinger
did what Jack may have
> wanted to
do, get away from the screaming fans. I
think that Salinger's
> explorations
of Buddhism, particularly in his good works (Franny & Zooey,
> Raise High .
. .) would put him in some connection even though it is rather
>
tenuous. Why was Buddhism such a rave
thing then? Eliot et al were into
> Hindu etc
because the Bagavad Gita (mis-spelled, I know) was recently
> translated.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:12:47 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization: Ridley
College
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited
Timothy Gallaher
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>,Internet writes:
Also I am
wondering if anyone has any info as to what was included in the
initial 1960 new
Directions abridged version of Visions of Cody?
Did they
include the new
york scenes part of the book but leave out the more far-out
parts such as the
Imitation of the Tape section? If so it
reminds me of
the initial offer
made to Kerouac concerning Dr. Sax where the potential
publisher (Wyn?)
suggested the fantastic parts of Sax be removed to leave a
narrative of
boyhood.
Yeah, I've heard
of Kerouac's sketching technique.. didn't he first use it on
"October in
the Railroad Earth"? Not sure... Hmm.. the copy of "Visions of
Cody"
that I have (a
very recent version) has a great article in the back written by
Allen Ginsberg
called "Visions of the Great Rememberer," where he annotates much
of the book...
I've been reading some of them as I come across them.. he makes
some very interesting
observations...
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:16:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited
Phil Chaput
<Philzi@TIAC.NET>,Internet writes:
This is true
Kerouac. Wouldn't it be great to hear Jack read this book.I
read or heard
somewhere that he thought this was his best book. Does anyone
else have
opinions about that? My 14 year old son was talking about food one
day and I had him
read that very passage where he talks about Hectors deli
and he was
smiling all the way through it. Phil
I agree with you
that it would be great to hear Kerouac read this book and in
fact, in the Jack
Kerouac collection of his spoken word stuff there is some
passages from
"Visions of Cody" that he recorded... well, there's the most
famous bit that
he did on the Steve Allen Show where he mixed "Cody" with "On
the Road"
but there are also some bits he did called, "Visions of Neal: Neal and
the Three
Stooges" which, I believe, are from "Visions of Cody," but I
can't be
sure.. I'd have
to check the booklet again...
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:37:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott
Fitzgerald
>From:
Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US> wrote:
>
>oh oh
oh! Teacher, teacher, call on me,
teacher! No, actually, we were
>discussing
this in english today, and everyone called the Beats
>beatniks...that
bugs me, ya know?
The columnist (I
think it was Herb Caen of the San Francisco examiner)
coined the phrase
"beatnik" as a put-down, to imply leftist, "pink," or
communist
tendencies. (I suppose based on "sputnik.") It was during the
Cold War at it's
worst. By the way, was Kerouac ever interviewed by Ben
Hecht? Not
remembered today, Hecht was a famous reporter and screenwriter,
and Kerouac was
drunk for the interview. I thought I read the incident in
Hecht's memoir,
"Child of the Century," but couldn't locate it in the book
later on.
By the way,
anyone care to discuss parallels between Kerouac and F. Scott
Fitzgerald? They
had similar styles, and "This Side of Paradise" reminded
me of Kerouac's
writing. They had much else in common, too: Catholicism,
alcoholism, early
death. Both also made frequent allusions to death and the
supernatural,
associating sex and death. Why does the word "mournful" occur
so frequently in
Jack's writing? What function does it serve? Not that I
expect definitive
answers; but I'd like help in framing the questions
better.
gmorrone@prolog.net
(George Morrone)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:48:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "bs@UBC"
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Salinger
In-Reply-To:
<960507.101447.EDT.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
On Tue, 7 May
1996, Peter R. McGahey wrote:
> Someone
mentioned Salinger - what does everyone think of him in relation
> to the
Beats? They were contemporaries, but
Salinger did what Jack may have
> wanted to
do, get away from the screaming fans. I
think that Salinger's
> explorations
of Buddhism, particularly in his good works (Franny & Zooey,
> Raise High .
. .) would put him in some connection even though it is rather
>
tenuous. Why was Buddhism such a rave
thing then? Eliot et al were into
> Hindu etc
because the Bagavad Gita (mis-spelled, I know) was recently
> translated.
Among critics,
esp. in the late fifties the Salinger/Kerouac comparison
was a
commonplace. See f.ex. Leslie Fiedler's essay "The Eye of
Innocence",
which is mostly a discussion of Twain and Salinger's
figuration of the
child, but which brings in Kerouac as a negative
comparison in the
discussion of what Fiedler calls the Good Bad Boy.
Here's some of
it:
"In Catcher
in the Rye, Holden comes to the dead end of ineffectual revolt
in a breakdown
out of which he is impelled to fight his way by the Good
Good Girl, in the
guise of the Pure Little Sister, from whose hands he
passes directly
into the hands of psychiatrist. In On the Road, whose
characters heal
themselves as they go by play-therapy, the inevitable
adjustment to
society is only promised, not delivered; we must wait for
the next
installment to tell how the Square Hipster makes good by acting
out his role
(with jazz accompaniment) in a New York night club, or even,
perhaps, how he
has sold his confessions of a Bad Boy to the movies.
[...]
To be sure it is
Zen Buddhism rather than Unitarianism or neo-Orthodoxy
which attracts
the Square Hipster and New Yorker contributor alike,
binding together
as improbable co-religionists Salinger and Kerouac;
indeed, if James
Dean had not yet discovered this particular kick before
he smashed up in
a sports car, it is because he died just a little too
soon. Past the
bongo drums and the fiddling around with sculpture it was
waiting for him,
the outsider's religion in a day when there is room
inside for the
outsider himself, provided he, too, goes "to the church of
his
choice""
Another critic,
Dan Wakefield, was even more vicious in his comparison:
"Moral
senility can come at any age, or need not come at all, and we have
recently borne
painful witness through the howls of the writers of the
"Beat
Generation" that moral senility can afflict quite young men and
women. This group
dismisses the search of Salinger on the grounds that he
is
"slick" (he writes for The New Yorker, and as any sensitive person
can
tell, it is
printed on a slick type of paper). But now that the roar from
the motorcycles
of Jack Kerouac's imagination has begun to subside, we
find that the
highly advertised search of the Beat has ended, at least
literarily, not
with love but with heroin. The appropriate nature of the
symbol can be
seen in the fact that the physiological experience of
heroin is one of
negation (it is the ultimate tranquilizer), releasing
the user during
the duration of his "high" from the drive for sex, for
love and for
answers. Fortunately for the rest of us, the characters in
Salinger's
fiction have found no such simple formula as a "fix" for
relief from their
troubles.
Sixteen-year-old
Holden Caulfield was (just like Jack Kerouac) sickened
by the material
values and the inhumanity of the world around him. That
sickness,
however, marked the beginning and not the end of the search of
Salinger's
characters to find an order of morality and a possibility of
love within the
world." (From "The Search For Love")
Let us not forget
that Salinger himself has commented on the Beats in one
of his stories,
"Seymour: An Introduction", albeit through the words of
his narrator
character, Buddy Glass. Critics have discussed at length how
closely Salinger
identified himself with this narrator - he certainly
gave him some of
his own biography. Here is the quote (Buddy is talking
to his imagined
reader):
"In this
entre-nous spirit, then, old confidant, before we join the
others, the
grounded everywhere, including, I'm sure, the middle-aged
hot-rodders who
insist on zooming us to the moon, the Dharma Bums, the
makers of
cigarette filters for thinking men, the Beat and the Sloppy and
the Petulant, the
chosen cultists, all the lofty experts who know so well
what we should or
shouldn't do with our poor little sex organs, all the
bearded, proud,
unlettered young men and unskilled guitarists and
Zen-killers and
incorporated aethetic Teddy boys who look down their
thoroughly
unenlightened noses at this splendid planet where (please
don't shut me up)
Kilroy, Christ, and Shakespeare all stopped - before we
join these
others, I privately say to you, old friend (unto you, really,
I'm afraid),
please accept from me this unpretentious bouquet of very
early-blooming
parentheses: (((())))." (p. 97-98 Little & Brown ed.)
That, I believe,
is what is nowadays called a rant, and a damn fine one, too
- though of
course elitist and borderline psychotic....
Regards,
Bent Sorensen
Visiting Grad.
Student, Dept. of English, UBC
Ph.D. Student,
Aalborg University, Denmark
<http://hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.uk.html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 22:19:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bent Sorensen
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Robert Hunter and Kerouac
Thanks to a tip
off Levi's Beat News page I checked Grateful Dead
lyricist, Robert
Hunter's homepage. Among lots of amazing stuff I found
this piece with
direct Beat relevance. I hope you enjoy it and that
Robert doesn't
mind my lifting it. Check out the rest of at the URL
following this:
http://grateful.dead.net/RobertHunterArchive.html/files/journal/6journal_
4.30.96.html
> Journal 4/24
- 4/30 1996
>
> 4/24
>
> Got a call
from the Kerouac estate today about me doing a two hour
> taping of
selections from 'Visions of Cody.' Did a short reading for
> a tape that
will be released along with a lot of other readers
> including
Allen Ginsberg, Hunter Thompson, Wm.Burroughs, Patti
> Smith, Jim
Carroll, and, yes, Johnny Depp. Many others I don't have
> on the tip
of my mind right now. I'll add 'em when my memory is
> refreshed.
>
> Reason they
want me is, I got the Cassady roll down. I know how he'd
> say things.
He lived with a bunch of us at the Waverley Street house
> in Palo Alto
for awhile, during the Acid Test days, and I spent a
> good amount
of time being talked at by the old boy. Reckon I could
> do it good
as anyone, better'n most. Harumph. Yas.
>
> The first
tape I mentioned was an interesting trip. I looked and
> looked for
something to read and couldn't settle on anything. So
> what I did
was, I woke up the next morning with a good idea. I
> hopped out
of bed, grabbed 'Visions of Cody' and a portable DAT
> machine, got
in my car and drove down to the parking lot of Amazing
> Grace Music,
which is situated in an island between two busy lanes
> of traffic.
I opened all the windows, put a tape I have of Jack
> singing
"Foggy London Town" in be-bop scat on the car's tape
> machine, and
read a random section of "Visions" with stereo traffic
> whizzing by.
Some angel honked right at the end. I didn't even
> bother to
check to see if I had a good take. If the spirits of Jack
> and Neal
weren't with me during those few minutes, there's no
> meaning to
such a statement. I could about hear both of them
> laughing and
it was a golden feeling.
>
> It isn't for
sure I get to do it. They check with Viking for
> approval
tomorrow. I said "If they want me to do it fine. If they
> don't, no
problem. I'm a busy man."
>
> 4/25
>
> Just heard
from Jim Sampas of the Kerouac estate again. He'd
> proposed me
to Viking/Penguin this morning, but it seems they, in
> their
infinite wisdom, have decided to go with Graham Parker. They
> feel Cassady
with an english accent would be interesting, besides
> they've
already put out promo on it. They offered me "Book of Blues"
> to record
instead. Sure, I'll do it, though I don't have the JFK
> accent
Kerouac had. Maybe I should put out my own recording of
>
"Visions" audio on the net. 45 megabyte download anyone?
Regards,
Bent Sorensen
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 07:59:38 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody - Revisited
If I remember
correctly, there is a more complete recording of Jack reading
from Visions of
Cody in Allen Ginsberg's archives (on a reel-to-reel tape) but
as far as I know,
has never been made available commercially.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:35:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "P.G. Springer"
<hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott
Fitzgerald
In-Reply-To: <v01510101adb5b548ab7e@[204.186.21.51]>
On Tue, 7 May
1996, George Morrone wrote:
> Cold War at
it's worst. By the way, was Kerouac ever interviewed by Ben
> Hecht? Not
remembered today, Hecht was a famous reporter and screenwriter,
> and Kerouac
was drunk for the interview. I thought I read the incident in
The audio
recording of the interview is on a CD compilation "The Beat
Generation"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:34:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott
Fitzgerald
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 21:37:11 -0500
from
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Yea, there are
lots of obvious comparisons between Fitz and Kerouac. The use o
f the narrator in
OTR & Gatsby and their treatments of the American Dream are t
wo major
similarities.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:44:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Salinger
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 21:48:20 -0700
from
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Thanks, Bent for
those interesting excerpts. There's also
a book by
Robert Hipkiss --
Jack Kerouac: Prophet of the New Romanticism --
which
makes comparisons
to Salinger and others. It's not very
good in my
opinion but it
might be worth a look anyway.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:49:02 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Robert Hunter and Kerouac
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 7 May 1996 22:19:46 -0700
from
<sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
If Robert Hunter
is listening, I'd sure like to hear that tape.
If you
make that cd,
they will buy it!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:06:26 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Peter R. McGahey"
<PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Fitzgerald and Kerouac
Aside from the
standard Lost Generation - Beat Generation connections,
I think it is
rather facinating that so many assume that Kerouac's entire
canon is a big
drug fest just like they assume all of Fitzgerald's canon is
one big alcoholic
party. By reading "Babylon
revisted" one can see the
obvious error in
this image of Fitzgerald and I think we all know that
Kerouac's canon
goes much deeper than the beatnik image.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:21:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott
Fitzgerald
In-Reply-To: <v01510101adb5b548ab7e@[204.186.21.51]>
from "George Morrone" at
May 7, 96 09:37:11 pm
> By the way,
anyone care to discuss parallels between Kerouac and F. Scott
> Fitzgerald?
They had similar styles, and "This Side of Paradise" reminded
> me of
Kerouac's writing. They had much else in common, too: Catholicism,
I agree about
This Side of Paradise -- in fact I was thinking about this
myself
recently. It is certainly Fitzgerald's
spontaneous piece of
writing (prob.
because it was his first novel), and in ways he acheives
the natural flow
and unpretentious tone that Kerouac worked hard to
find. It's interesting that Fitzgerald began as a
spontaneous writer
and then became
the opposite (with Gatsby and Tender is the Night),
whereas Kerouac's
first novel (Town and the City) is somewhat studied and
stiff in tone --
only after this novel did he discover the spontaneous
prose style (with
help from Neal Cassady).
Also, both
writers were considered has-beens at the time of their
death, and did
not become accepted as "serious" literary figures until
later. (With Kerouac, the process is still going on,
I think).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
Let's head back to
Tennessee, Jed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 20:03:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: L00K homeward, Matt.
Hello folks. William Miller here. Back on the list after an absence.
Matthew S
Sackmann wrote:
>
> I found some awesome books in a used
book store today. I was
> wondering
what you guys think about the prices.
$25 for a first edition
> of Visions
of Cody, hardcover. $30 for a 1rst ed.
of Maggie Cassidy,
> soft. And $60 for the 1rst british ed. of Maggie
Cassidy, 1rst hardcover
> ed. I didnt buy these but i did buy Satori in
Paris & Pic, Grace beats
> Karma
(finally, ive found some of neals writings), On the Road (a copy
> for my
brother), No nature (Snyder), Look Homeward, Angel (Wolfe), and a
> book that
contains poems by Bukowski and Phillip Lamantia. All in all it
> was a very
successful outing!
> Goodnight
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> matt
Matt, I'm
interested.... did you buy a 1st edition of Look Homeward Angel, or
not?? Please e-mail me directly and let me know if
you bought a 1st, and if
so, what you paid
for it. Being part of the best used
bookstore in Wolfe's
hometown (the
setting for most of LHA) I am always interested in knowing what
LHA is fetching.
Thanks.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:20:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: Fitzgerald and Kerouac
>Aside from
the standard Lost Generation - Beat Generation connections,
>I think it is
rather facinating that so many assume that Kerouac's entire
>canon is a
big drug fest just like they assume all of Fitzgerald's canon is
>one big
alcoholic party.
I wonder about
the reason for the drinking. Was Kerouac very uncomfortable
in social
situations? Remember how FitzG. humiliated himself at the
Hollywood party?
(Crazy Sunday was based on the incident.) He could only
face social
situations if anesthesized (drunk.) Was Kerouac similarly
uncomfortable? My
guess is that alcohol serves as a sort of psychological
defense
mechanism, which substitutes for personal growth. I'm amazed at how
brilliant they
were in their writing, and how dense about their personal
lives.
>By reading
"Babylon revisted" one can see the
>obvious error
in this image of Fitzgerald and I think we all know that
>Kerouac's
canon goes much deeper than the beatnik image.
Babylon Revisited
is about the consequences of his fast lifestyle. Did
Kerouac later
regret his heavy drug and alcohol use? I haven't read his
later books such
as Big Sur yet. Though I don't have their writing talent,
I recognize a lot of myself in them and if I
criticize them, it's because
I had similar
problems and experiences. (Though
I'm lucky enough not to
have an alcohol
problem.) I think in both writers its their "romantic sense
of
possibility," or "a sort of epic grandeur" that's attractive. By
the
way, has anyone
else read the chapter on Kerouac and Ginsberg in Gore
Vidal's
"Palimpsest" yet? Vidal himself is an interesting writer, and I
intend to read
"The City and the Pillar," along with Jack's "The Town and
the City"
over the summer.
George
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 23:55:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fitzgerald and Kerouac
I think Kerouac
inherited his alcoholism from his mother and possibly his
father too. There
seem to be certain personality traits that go along with such
an inheritance,
such as shyness in social situations, which of course, drinking
seems to ease. If
I remember correctly, it was in the Nicosia biography that
mentioned Jack's
attempt to stay away from big parties, because he was trying
to cut back on
his drinking. Such was the case when Neal had a hard time
getting him to
come into NYC from his mothers house (on Long Island?) to that
party where he
met Kesey.
There is a good
discussion on writing and drinking in the latest issue of BOMB
Magazine in the
interview with Padgett Powell, who it seems, is kicking the
habit.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 00:13:08 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Robert Hunter and Kerouac
For anyone
interested, with the available technology, there will be a
"Psychedelic
Cyber Reunion" with Ken Kesey and Tim Leary on the CU SEE ME video
conference next
Friday, May 10th. It will start approx. 4 pm and go to 7 pm
(I guess west
coast time). For info updates, check the following web sites;
www.fishwwrap.com/hazardous
and or
www.leary.com
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:18:10 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dame Agnes Guano
<NN279@LAMP.AC.UK>
Subject: The Beats in Mexico
I was wondering
if all you kind wonderful people out there could help me with
a bunch of
suggestions for beat writings on Mexico. Poetry, prose, letters,
whatever. Nothing
is too obvious or too obscure, from On the Road to a seldom
seen letter. For
the record, I am a first year English Literature student in
Wales (buy a
decent atlas) and should be in Mexico for about a month or two
over the summer,
wasting the money of decent tax paying citizens. Something
along the lines
of "Anglo-American attitudes to Mexico" or some such nonsense.
All contributions
greatly lovingly received and here's to a fine dose of
Kerouac like
dysentery.
Brett
NN279@lamp.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:24:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: The Beats in Mexico
Comments: cc:
Dame Agnes Guano <NN279@LAMP.AC.UK>
In-Reply-To: <831640691.101336.NN279@lamp.ac.uk>
On Thu, 9 May
1996, Dame Agnes Guano wrote:
> I was
wondering if all you kind wonderful people out there could help me with
> a bunch of
suggestions for beat writings on Mexico. Poetry, prose, letters,
> whatever.
Nothing is too obvious or too obscure, from On the Road to a seldom
> seen letter.
For the record, I am a first year English Literature student in
> Wales (buy a
decent atlas) and should be in Mexico for about a month or two
> over the
summer, wasting the money of decent tax paying citizens. Something
> along the
lines of "Anglo-American attitudes to Mexico" or some such nonsense.
> All
contributions greatly lovingly received and here's to a fine dose of
> Kerouac like
dysentery.
>
> Brett
NN279@lamp.ac.uk
>
Burroughs's
writing has all sorts of Mexican references from _Queer_ on,
but I think his
best writing about Mexico is in _The Wild Boys_, if only
for the first
section. The part about the witch and the evil eye are
great and the
whole book is worth it for the lines from that same section,
"Vulgar
queer, your arm hairs are blowing in our soup... (later) I hope
you slip on a
piece of soap and fall off your balcony" Haha. _The Wild
Boys_ has always
been one of my favourites come to think of it, the Green
Nun routine is
hilarious. _Queer_ also has extensive parts based in
Mexico but is a
much more dense and sad book.
As for sadness
and Mexico there's always _Tristessa_ (sorry couldn't help
it), which
details Kerouac's flirtations with junk (and eventual
abandonment of it
for alcohol), and his misguided love for a junky.
Have Fun,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:41:54 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fitzgerald and Kerouac
I suppose this
may be stating the obvious, but one aspect of Kerouac's
alcohol abuse
early on could reasonably fall into the realm of
self-medication
attempts. His emotional pain from
childhood and young adult
experiences
(Gerard and father's death, etc.) are well documented. None of
this is intended
to be "either-or" oriented, as I imagine multiple causes or
triggers are the
rule here.
Regards to all,
Jon Schwartz
jbs@uwyo.edu
>
>I think
Kerouac inherited his alcoholism from his mother and possibly his
>father too. There
seem to be certain personality traits that go along with
>such
>an
inheritance, such as shyness in social situations, which of course,
>drinking
>seems to
ease. If I remember correctly, it was in the Nicosia biography
that
>mentioned
Jack's attempt to stay away from big parties, because he was
trying
>to cut back
on his drinking. Such was the case when Neal had a hard time
>getting him
to come into NYC from his mothers house (on Long Island?) to
that
>party where
he met Kesey.
>
>There is a
good discussion on writing and drinking in the latest issue of
BOMB
>Magazine in
the interview with Padgett Powell, who it seems, is kicking the
>habit.
>
>Dave B.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:05:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Beats in Mexico
Comments: cc:
Brett.NN279@lamp.ac.uk
>I was
wondering if all you kind wonderful people out there could help me with
>a bunch of
suggestions for beat writings on Mexico. Poetry, prose, letters,
>whatever.
Nothing is too obvious or too obscure, from On the Road to a seldom
>seen letter.
For the record, I am a first year English Literature student in
>Wales (buy a
decent atlas) and should be in Mexico for about a month or two
>over the
summer, wasting the money of decent tax paying citizens. Something
>along the
lines of "Anglo-American attitudes to Mexico" or some such nonsense.
>All
contributions greatly lovingly received and here's to a fine dose of
>Kerouac like
dysentery.
>
>Brett
NN279@lamp.ac.uk
Mexico Fellaheen
by kerouac from Lonesone Traveller.
Also by Kerouac,
Tristessa
and large
portions of Desolation Angels
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:32:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Karen Lawler
<klawler@EMERALD.TUFTS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mail List
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199605062244.SAA20132@mime3.prodigy.com>
please remove me
from this mailing list
karen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:44:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Kiriazis <kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
Subject: Gary Snyder
One of my
students has concentrated her semester work on the poetry of Gary
Snyder. She has been so taken by his work that she is
trying to find out if
he is teaching
courses anywhere. Is he affiliated with
any university?
Thanks in advance
for any helpful information.
Bill Kiriazis
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:51:20 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Hartley
<chris.hartley@GS.COM>
Subject: Re: Gary Snyder
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: Bill Kiriazis <kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
"Gary Snyder" (May 9, 4:44pm)
UC Davis, I
think.
--
--
_________________________________________________________________
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ Chris Hartley
_/ _/ _/
_/_/_/_/ Emerging Debt Markets
_/_/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/
_/ _/
_/ _/ _/ voice: (212)-902-8110
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ email: hartlc@fi.gs.com
_________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 06:59:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Beats in Mexico
Brett,
Here's the best I
could do:
Two letters in
_The Letters of William S. Burroughs, 1945-1959_, both dated
"May
1951", one to Kerouac and one to A. Ginsberg, both addressed "37 Cerrada
de Medellin,
Mexico City" made very clear how Burroughs felt about Mexico
City at the
time. It seems that WSB felt a need to
dispel Allen and Jack's
romantic notions,
having lived there himself.....
Also the
Introduction to _Queer_ (also Burroughs) contains some valuable
material.
Also I found a
letter dated Jan 22, 1950, WSB->JK "Mexico is undoubtedly the
place for
you...."
The contrast
between first and last letters from Mexico:
Sept 26, 1949
(WSB-> JK): "Mexico is very
cheap...fabulous cock fights and
whorehouses...I
strongly urge you to visit"
Nov. 5, 1952
(WSB->AG): "I hope this is my
last letter from Mexico...all I
want is out of
this miserable cold town...three years in this town and no one
I want to say
good-bye to when I leave, except Marker"
You definitely
should look for _The Letters of WSB_ and _Queer_, if nothing
else. If memory serves correctly, Mexico City is
the opening setting of
_Wild Boys_
also....
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:40:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: beat books
A few years back
I was getting a catalog called "Beat books" put out by
Steve Ronan who
writes beat related articles. I believe he worked at City
Lights in San
Francisco at one time. He had some great used beat books in
those catalogs
but I haven't received any in a long while. Does anyone still
get this catalog
or have Steve's address or maybe even his phone number?
Also any info on
other beat book catalogs would be appreciated.
Phil Chaput-Lowell
Mass. e-mail philzi@tiac.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 12:25:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: BEAT PUBLICATIONS
Hello Phil
Chaput! Responding to your inquiry bout Steve Ronan's BEAT BOOKS &
other Beat
Publications. Here are a few names & addresses for you & I thought
some others might
desire: Stephen Ronan, Beat Books, P.O. Box 5813, Berkley,
CA 94705; Water
Row Books, P.O. Box 438, Sudbury, MA 01776
(Waterrow@aol.com);
Waiting for Godot, P.O. Box 331, Hadley, MA 01035 (FAX
413-586-1731);
Hanuman Books, 222 West 23rd St., NY NY 10011-2301 (FAX
212-633-8655);
Alpha Beat Press, 31 A. Waterloo St., New Hope, PA 18938
(215-862-0299);
Gotham Book Mart & Gallery, 41 West 47th St., NY NY 10036
(212-719-4448);
City Lights Books, 261 Columbus Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133
(415-362-1901);
Audio Literature, P.O. Box 7123, Berkley, CA 94707
(415-878-1831);
Rhino Records, 1720 Westwood Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90024
(310-474-8685);
Viking Penguin, 375 Hudson St., NY NY 10014; Grove Atlantic,
841 Broadway, NY
NY 10003; Thunder's Mouth Press, 93-99 Greene Street, NY NY
10012; Soft Skull
Press, 50 East Third Street #5A, NY NY 10003
(212-533-6152);
John LeBow Books, 117 Langford Road, Candia, NH 03034
(603-483-5595);
Hozomeen Press, P.O. Box 174, Mystic, Connecticut 06355
(HozmnPress@aol.com);
& White Fields Press, 1387 Lexington Road, Louisville,
Kentucky 40206,
(502-568-4956 or RWhiteBone@aol.com).
There are plenty
of others but this is a list of some of the main ones. If
you have any
questions or want more info let me know. All the Best, Ron
Whitehead
(RWhiteBone@aol.com) 5/10/96 12:24PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:22:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Guelph Peak
<peak@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott
Fitzgerald
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm1.mcgill.ca>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm1.mcgill.ca>
In-Reply-To: <v01510101adb5b548ab7e@[204.186.21.51]>
> >oh oh
oh! Teacher, teacher, call on me,
teacher! No, actually, we were
>
>discussing this in english today, and everyone called the Beats
>
>beatniks...that bugs me, ya know?
>
> The
columnist (I think it was Herb Caen of the San Francisco examiner)
> coined the
phrase "beatnik" as a put-down, to imply leftist, "pink,"
or
> communist
tendencies. (I suppose based on "sputnik.") It was during the
> Cold War at
it's worst. By the way, was Kerouac ever interviewed by Ben
> Hecht? Not
remembered today, Hecht was a famous reporter and screenwriter,
> and Kerouac
was drunk for the interview. I thought I read the incident in
> Hecht's
memoir, "Child of the Century," but couldn't locate it in the book
> later on.
It was indeed
Herb Caen who coined the term, and it was a play on the
paranoia of the
time about communism, based on the word "sputnik", but
it's my
understanding (don't get me wrong, I'm not positive, this is
based on one
source now forgotten, perhaps the Charters Kerouac bio) that
it wasn't
originally intended to be derogatory.
Can anyone back me up on
this?
Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 16:14:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Beatnik, Sputnik & F. Scott
Fitzgerald
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.960510164423.19690A-100000@ccshst08>
reagardless of its
original context, I think it has slowly developed a
cultural stigma
that is not all together positive and is overly
stereotypical..
-------------
Jonathan Kratter
jonkrat@nueva.pvt.k12.ca.us
"What kind of sordid business are
you on now? I mean, man,
whither goest thou? Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car
in
the night?"
-On the Road, Jack Kerouac
On Fri, 10 May
1996, The Guelph Peak wrote:
> > >oh
oh oh! Teacher, teacher, call on me,
teacher! No, actually, we were
> >
>discussing this in english today, and everyone called the Beats
> >
>beatniks...that bugs me, ya know?
> >
> > The
columnist (I think it was Herb Caen of the San Francisco examiner)
> > coined
the phrase "beatnik" as a put-down, to imply leftist,
"pink," or
> >
communist tendencies. (I suppose based on "sputnik.") It was during
the
> > Cold
War at it's worst. By the way, was Kerouac ever interviewed by Ben
> > Hecht?
Not remembered today, Hecht was a famous reporter and screenwriter,
> > and
Kerouac was drunk for the interview. I thought I read the incident in
> > Hecht's
memoir, "Child of the Century," but couldn't locate it in the book
> > later
on.
>
> It was
indeed Herb Caen who coined the term, and it was a play on the
> paranoia of
the time about communism, based on the word "sputnik", but
> it's my
understanding (don't get me wrong, I'm not positive, this is
> based on one
source now forgotten, perhaps the Charters Kerouac bio) that
> it wasn't
originally intended to be derogatory.
Can anyone back me up on
> this?
>
> Paul
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 22:23:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CANAPP <Canapp@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Sorry About Wrong Address <g>
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 11 May
96 22:14:08 EDT
From: Mailer-Daemon@cris.com
To:
Canapp@cris.com
Subject: Returned
mail: User unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to
mailhost.cris.com:
>>> RCPT
To:<BEAT-L@cunyvm>
<<< 553
<BEAT-L@cunyvm>... Never heard of cunyvm in domain cris.com
550
<BEAT-L@Cunyvm>... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from
localhost by mariner.cris.com (4.1) id AA04553; Sat, 11 May 96
22:14:08 EDT
Date: Sat, 11 May
1996 22:14:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: CANAPP
<Canapp@cris.com>
To: BEAT-L@cunyvm
Subject: The
Powder Room
Message-Id:
<Pine.SUN.3.93.960511220651.4025A-100000@mariner.cris.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi, fellow Beats:
I just want to
write and let you gals out there know, there is a new group
for
"significant other females" regarding the Viet Nam war, and Vets.
Mothers, sisters,
wives, daughters, and any other females who experienced
problems, loss,
anger, whatever, etc., concerning Viet Nam.
The new group is
called "The Powder Room" and we hope to have many
contributers. If anyone is interested, please email me
personally.
Thank you, and
sorry for the no Beat content.
Mary Beth:))
canapp@concentric.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 19:38:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dolores Neese <dolores@CRL.COM>
Subject: Lucien Carr?????
I've started
reading Birth of the Beat Generation, by Steven Watson, and
into the first
chapter there appears a character, Lucien Carr, who was a
classmate of
Ginsberg's at Columbia U. I don't recall ever coming across
this name before.
Did Lucien Carr write? Is he still alive. He looks like
a twin of River
Pheonix.
Dolores
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 23:05:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lucien Carr?????
I don't recall
that Lucien Carr ever wrote anything. But his son, Caleb, has
written a few,
including most recently, The Alienist ( a best seller even).
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 00:43:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<and_how@IDIOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Lucien Carr?????
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.960511193546.16017B-100000@crl5.crl.com>
That would make
sense--I mean his looking like River Phoenix.
Lucien
Carr is supposed
to have been extraordinarily beautiful.
Some guy came
on to him so
strong that he had to stab the guy to death--on the sheeny
nighttime shore
of the Hudson near Grant's Tomb as I recall.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a tale of curious circuitry
http://www.idiom.com/~and_how/PAGE.HTML
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, 11 May
1996, Dolores Neese wrote:
> I've started
reading Birth of the Beat Generation, by Steven Watson, and
> into the
first chapter there appears a character, Lucien Carr, who was a
> classmate of
Ginsberg's at Columbia U. I don't recall ever coming across
> this name
before. Did Lucien Carr write? Is he still alive. He looks like
> a twin of
River Pheonix.
>
> Dolores
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:07:47 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: lucien carr
dolores
"kerouac was
fascinated by the tone of the word 'beat' as hunke said it hunched
over a cup of
coffee in a times square cafe....kerouac's insistence that the
word possessed
deeper allusive qualities and meant something mysterious &
spiritual,
suggestive of herman melvilles story more than a century before about
archetypal
american non-conformist 'bartleby the scrivener', grew out of his
conversations
with ginsberg & ginsberg's friend lucien carr, another columbia
undergraduate in
the new york group.
ginsberg &
carr were only eighteen-year-old college students at the time, but
they were drawn
to literature and were using drugs like benzedrine and marijuana
in their
dormitory rooms near the columbia campus to inspire them create what
they called a
'new vision' of art. they were atempting
to follow the example of
the french poet
arthur rimbaud, whom carr introduced to ginsberg as the ideal
poet. their efforts were the earliest attempts of
the group later labelled
'beat writers' to
define a philosophy.
....kerouac went
to jail as a material witness for helping lucien carr destroy
evidence after
carr fatally stabbed david kammerer, another member of the early
group around
columbia."
taken from 'the
portable beat reader'
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:54:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: lucien carr
Lucien Carr is
alive, I presume well, and lives in Washington, DC. He is (I
believe) retired
after a long career with United Press International.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:20:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Douglas Dusseau
<ddusseau@IN.NET>
Subject: Raid Kills Bugs Dead
I heard recently
that Lew Welch while working at an Ad agency was
responsible for
coining the advertising slogan: Raid - Kills bug dead. Does
anyone know if
there is any truth to this?
Douglas M Dusseau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 19:05:59 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<and_how@IDIOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Raid Kills Bugs Dead
In-Reply-To: <9605130020.AA24667@su1.in.net>
Well, it's true
if you believe Robert Hass. He said so
during an
interview with
Terry Gross of NPR about two weeks ago.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a tale of curious circuitry
http://www.idiom.com/~and_how/PAGE.HTML
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sun, 12 May
1996, Douglas Dusseau wrote:
> I heard
recently that Lew Welch while working at an Ad agency was
> responsible
for coining the advertising slogan: Raid - Kills bug dead. Does
> anyone know
if there is any truth to this?
> Douglas M
Dusseau
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:39:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Michael E. Frank"
<ATRANE207@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lucien Carr?????
Dolores; In a
message dated 96-05-11 22:46:19 EDT, you write:
>I've started
reading Birth of the Beat Generation, by Steven Watson, and
>into the
first chapter there appears a character, Lucien Carr, who was a
>classmate of
Ginsberg's at Columbia U. I don't recall ever coming across
>this name
before...
"...and
returned to New York (Kerouac ' 51) not long after the publication of
his first novel,
'The Town and the City'. Once back, he moved in with an old
friend from the
days around Columbia named Lucien Carr. At the time Carr was
living in a loft
apartment on West Twenty-first Street and was working for
United Press.
As he (Kerouac) tried out his new technique
("Spontaneous Prose") on long
letters and short
stories, he found that the only thing that slowed him down
was changing
sheets of paper in the typewriter....The problem was solved by
Lucien Carr one
night when he brought home a full roll of United Press
teletype paper
that he had lifted from the office. Kerouac was delighted. He
saw that all he
had to do was insert one end of the roll into his typewriter,
and he could keep
going for days and days.
Carr remembers that shortly after the
manuscript was finished a little dog
he had at the
time attacked the roll and chewed up the last few feet of it.
'It had perforce
to be rewritten,' he says, 'but I know for a fact that was
the only part of
"On the Road" that was rewritten.' " "The Beat
Generation",
Bruce Cook, 1971.
Off-the-topic
query: Does anyone have a translation of the "Drunken Boat",
Rimbaud other
than than the one by Le Clercq?? Appreciate if you can mail to
me at:
atrane207@aol.com Thanks. Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 01:43:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Matt Sackmann
<LSACKMA@UOFT02.BITNET>
Subject: hellooo...
Well, i had to
move email addresse so i've missed our discussions for
about a week or
so. Ive just started reading Dharma Bums
today, and i
must say 'I love
it!' More fun to read than Desolation Angels, it's a lot
happier so
far. Im getting ready to head off to
Alaska to attempt to
find a summer job
(in three weeks) and my friends and i intend to do a
lot of hiking up
there and in Washington (waiting for the ferry).
Thats all
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 04:04:59 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Marcus Williamson
<71333.1665@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Drunken Boat
Michael
For info about
the Drunken Boat try :
http://www.altavista.digital.com/
and use
"Drunken Boat" (with quotes)
as your search - there's quite a lot
there including
Rimbaud, a band called "Drunken Boat" and a song
by the Pogues...!
:-)
regards
Marcus
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:01:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Lucien Carr?????
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 13 May 1996 18:39:09 -0400
from
<ATRANE207@AOL.COM>
Yes, if you look
at the manuscript that's currently on tour in the Beat exhibit
, you'll still
see the ravages of Lucien's dog's teeth.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:04:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Drunken Boat
Hello! Anyone
interested in deeper research on Drunken Boat the band contact
Todd Colby, one
of the finest young poets in the country (two books out with
Soft Skull Press,
NYC) who is also lead singer for Drunken Boat plus Director
of Poetry
Readings at St. Mark's Poetry Project. Contact addresses: Todd
Colby, 275 Union
St., Brooklyn, NY 11231; Soft Skull Press, 50 East Third
Street #5A, NY NY
10003, phone 212-533-6152; St.Mark's Poetry Project, 131 E.
10th St., NY NY
10003, phone 212-674-0918. If you need more info on any of
above give me a
holler. Thanks!
Ron Whitehead,
White Fields Press, 1387 Lexington Road, Louisville, Kentucky
40206, phone
502-568-4956, e-mail RWhiteBone@aol.com
5/14/96 9:03AM
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:12:24 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: BONNIE LEE HOWARD
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Lew Welch--"Raid Kills Bugs
Dead" (fwd)
Comments: cc:
bosstoad@cris.com
Howdy folks,
I am forwarding
this response from a friend who's having trouble posting to
this list.
--Bonnie
---------------forwarded
message follows---------------
Yes, it's
true. Well, maybe. The source of the story is in Aram Saroyan's
biography Genesis
Angels, but I'm not sure Saroyan can be trusted (he
doesn't identify
his sources), and the claim may not be true. Saroyan never
talked to Lew,
that I know for a fact. I don't recall
seeing the Raid ad
claim in the
interview Lew gave Dave Meltzer around 1969-1970, from which
Saroyan got a
good part of his bio material. Saroyan
says "Lew Welch wrote
the classic
slogan 'Raid Kills Bugs Dead' . . . before he quit advertising
for good in July
of 1958." (Page 109.) I can't buy that. My research
indicates Lew was
doing layout and copy work for Wards in Oakland in 1958
and got fired
from the job, after which he chucked it all to live the life
of a poet. OP
At 08:20 PM
5/12/96 -0400, Douglas Dusseau wrote:
>I heard
recently that Lew Welch while working at an Ad agency was
>responsible
for coining the advertising slogan: Raid - Kills bug dead. Does
>anyone know
if there is any truth to this?
>Douglas M
Dusseau
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:38:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Lucien Carr
Hello! Forwarding
this info for Sara in Chicago. I just recvd copy of
articles from her
&, although I was already familiar with the history of UC
censorship
debacle, this is great work material. As many/most of you know the
spirit of
censorship (yes to point of being Orwellian) is growing daily. I
went thru similar
experience to Rosenthal/Carroll. Investigation by Univ of
Louisville really
started in fall of '92 right after Allen Ginsberg read
"Sphincter"
to audience of 1,500 at U of L. I brought Amiri Baraka two weeks
later & from
that point on U of L President & staff waged all out war both in
press &
behind scenes to threaten with imprisonment & scare all staff helpers
& completely
dismantle all I had built for the literary renaissance. I was
stamped OUTLAW. I
had already been banished when, as my last gesture, I
brought Lawrence
Ferlinghetti to read & visit. Thomas Merton had spent last
night of his life
in USA at Ferlinghetti's in California & Lawrence asked me
to arrange visit
to his grave at Abbey of Gethsemani, Trappist, Kentucky.
After meditating
on Merton's grave we had long talk & decided to make break
official &
permanent from University & officially form the literary
renaissance, a
non-profit organization supporting the global literary
community, out of
which White Fields Press was born. Whole mad story to be
told in PUBLISHED
IN HEAVEN: the birth of the literary renaissance. Hopefully
it will be
birthed in '97.
All the Best from
Sara Ellefson & Ron Whitehead 5/14/96
1:37PM
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: Sara.Ellefson@infores.com (Sara Ellefson)
To: RWhiteBone@aol.com
Date: 96-05-14
12:07:18 EDT
Hi Ron,
I've been unable to post to the list. If you could, be a dear and
post this for me . . . I'd be forever
grateful. You can either
forward this to the list or copy and paste
it to a new message,
doesn't matter to me.
Thanks a bunch.
I've got a wonderful 2-part article from
'The Reader' a free Chicago
weekly newspaper . . . it is about the
censorship of the Winter '59
Chicago Review (U of Chicago Lit Mag) . .
. part of which deals with
Lucien Carr:
"Not all of the winter manuscripts
were ready that Friday, because of
a minor snafu with the Kerouac piece,
"Lucien Midnight."
"Lucien" was
Kerouac's friend Lucien Carr, who had been
convicted of murder in the
late 40s.
Carr had served some prison time, but by 1958 he was a free
man again.
Kerouac referred to the crime in "Lucien Midnight." When
Carr found out he became enraged. He put word out through the
grapevine that the work had better not be
published as it stood.
Rosenthal [editor of the Chicago Review]
was putting the final
editorial touches on the manuscript and
preparing it for the
typesetter when he received a frantic
telegram from Ginsberg. He had
to delete all references to Carr from the
text. Especially the title.
"Lucien Midnight" became
"Old Angel Midnight."
It is a wonderful article and I've copied
it for a couple of people
already.
It is titled "NAKED CENSORSHIP
The True Story of the
University of Chicago and William S.
Burroughs's NAKED LUNCH" and was
written by Gerald E. Brennan. If you are interested in a copy I would
be happy to send you one, just send me a
private e-mail (I'm kinda
swamped at work so it might take a couple
of weeks).
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:00:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Beat Culture & the New America
Received this
review of the Whitney show. Since the
show is on the road
I thought it
might still be of some interest. wxgbc
And the Beats Go
On.
by
Michael McLean
The new show at the Whitney Museum of
American Art is a
close though
cluttered look at the life and wild times of that
most American of
movements, the Beat Generation.
The Beats are back with a vengeance these
days. Long
neglected and
ridiculed by the literati and the common folk as
a band of
degenerates, hoodlums, drug addicts, sex maniacs and
half mad writers,
the Beats now enjoy a renewed visibility
(tha nks in no
small part to poet Allen Ginsberg's tireless
and not entirely
selfless drumbeating).
Their poetry and prose are back on the
shelves being
discovered by a
new, sympathetic generation of readers.
Ginsberg is a
respected professor at Brooklyn College and
records songs
with alternative rock bands. Sales of Jack
Kerouac's books
an d Kerouac memorabilia soar as tour groups
wend their way
through the dismal streets of his hometown of
Lowell, Mass. And
William Burroughs remains a largely
invisible though
palpable presence, still producing books and
exhibiting wild
paintings of shotgun blasts of color.
A new respectability, or is it merely a
nostalgia, for
the Beats is in
the air. The Beats are cool again. And
the
Beats are back in
town being celebrated at the Whitney.
Entitled Upbeat Culture and the New
America 1950-1965,"
the show seems a
jumbled panorama of Beat artifacts and
ephemeral. Manuscripts, letters, artwork, snapshots and
notebooks of all
the major and some very minor Beat writers
are on display
along with the paintings, sculpture and films
of
contemporaneous artists who while not strictly Beat were
friends of,
sympathetic with or influences upon them.
Inexplicably the show is organized not
along thematic or
chronological
lines, but geograp hically with sections devoted
to New York City,
San Francisco and Los Angeles.
In the New York section the major
artifacts of the Beat
Generation are on
view: the roll of Teletype paper, now
discolored and
tattered, on which Kerouac typed his first
draft of "On
the Road"; some graying pages torn from the
manuscript of Burroughs'
notorious "Naked Lunch"; and pages
from the original
draft of Ginsberg's "Howl."
Along with the writers' manuscripts is
their artwork.
Especially
poignant are Ginsberg's blown-up and hand-annotated
photos of
himself, Kerouac, Burroughs, Gregory Corso and other
seminal Beat
figures when they were young and on the verge of
giving voice to
what Kerouac called "the unspeakable visions
of the
individual." Of note also are Kerouac's small paintings
and drawings,
mostly abstracts but including one heavy-handed
but heartfelt
rendering of Budda, and Burroughs' newspaper
colla ges
concentrating, of course, on the dark side -- all
murder, bombs and
sundry disasters.
Much of the California art, as other
reviewers have
observed, is
disappointing and unmemorable and of a strangely
wearisome
yellowed and brownish cast. There are few
exceptions.
Jess's cartoon collage books and more
somber black and
white
neosurrealist collages are intriguing. Another exception
is Jay De Feo's
legendary The Rose, which she worked on for
eight years
alternately applying countless layers of paint and
painstakingly
scraping it off until The Rose reached a truly
monumental 11
feet in height and weight of over 2,000 pounds.
The Rose lends itself to a variety of
interpretations.
Its sanded-smooth
rays of soft grays emanate from the center
to the outer
edges of the canvas where the paint remains
black, clumpy and
unrefined. It is a flowering, of course, but
also s uggests
perhaps the expansion of the artist's
sensibility or
consciousness, or even the Big Bang itself.
Bruce Conner's assemblages made of grimy
stretched nylon,
old cardboard,
pieces of twine, wood and other junkyard
salvage are given
prominent play in the exhibition. But except
for one or two
amusing pieces, such as a street trash portrait
of Allen
Ginsberg, they seem particularly dated as do Wally
Hedrick's
clumsily erotic paintings.
It is only in the New York section that
works of
considerable
power and resonance appear. The artists'
ties to
the Beats are
tenuous at best although Larry Rivers did act in
the early Beat
film, "Pull My Daisy," along with Ginsberg and
Corso (narration
by Kerouac). Still their works are shown
to
good advantage.
Hung alongside the relics of the Beat writers,
they combine to
re-create a gritty street scene of a fifties
New York when the
visual and literary arts were in a state of
ferment a nd
something genuinely new was about to erupt.
The Jackson Pollock is welcome relief after
the
Californian smog
-- a bright swath of his trademark swirls of
of color and
light. Interestingly Kerouac credited Pollock's
raw expression of
the subconscious through instinctive action
painting as an
influence on the composition of his own
spontaneous bop
prosody. Kline and de Kooning are also on view
as well as
Rivers' nude-but-for-combat boots portrait of poet
Frank O'Hara and
expressionistic bar menu.
Robert Rauschenberg's pieces still show
considerable
power and seem as
fresh and innovative as when they were
-3-
created which
cannot be said of most of the California works.
In contrast to
Conner's assemblages, for example,
Rauschenberg's
Satellite boasts a strong composition of
newspaper, fabric
(including an old pair of blue socks), and
colorful splashes
and drips of paint and still speaks with
authority. It is
classic early Rauschenberg down to the
paint-besmeared
pheasant that struts along a plank mounted to
the canvas top.
Even a relatively minor work such as Mother
of God, a
mounted map with
a gaping white hole at its center, still
disturbs and
remains undiminished.
My advice on the Beat show is Kerouac's
oft repeated
exhortation,
"Go, man, go." But make only a quick swing
through San Fran
and L.A. before spending most of your
time
in New York.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:34:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Sketches of Kerouac
As I've been reading Kerouac's Visions of
Cody I've become increasingly
interested in his
technique of "sketching." Does anyone know how and when this
style originated?
Was "October in the Railroad Earth" the first example of this
technique that
Kerouac went on to use more frequently? Also, are there any
articles (aside
from the ones that kerouac himself wrote) out there on this
technique and how
it is used in his books?
just wondering,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:32:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: compuserve
I've been having
problems with bounced beat-l mail from compuserve but
compservedoesn't
identify the source of the delivery problem.
I have 3
compuserve
subscribers on the list. Will those of
you on compuserve who
are receiving
messages let me know so that I identify the one person who
isn't receiving
messages. Please respond directly to me
at
wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu. Thanks much.
Sorry to takeup everyone's time
with such
housekeeping chores.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:25:37 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Derek Alexander Beaulieu
<dabeauli@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Re: Sketches of Kerouac
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.ucalgary.ca>
In-Reply-To: <0007C575.fc@ridley.on.ca>
as far as i know
it was Ed White who recommended the "sketching" technique
to JK. check out
THE MISSOURI REVIEW XVII, #3 for the White Letters and
some comments on
their interaction.
derek beaulieu
dabeauli@acs.ucalgary.ca
On Wed, 15 May
1996, J.D. P. Lafrance wrote:
>
> As I've been reading Kerouac's Visions of
Cody I've become increasingly
> interested
in his technique of "sketching." Does anyone know how and when this
> style
originated? Was "October in the Railroad Earth" the first example of
thi
> technique
that Kerouac went on to use more frequently? Also, are there any
> articles
(aside from the ones that kerouac himself wrote) out there on this
> technique
and how it is used in his books?
>
> just
wondering,
> JDL
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:24:34 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Sketches of Kerouac
Derek Alexander
Beaulieu writes:
as far as i know
it was Ed White who recommended the "sketching" technique
to JK. check out
THE MISSOURI REVIEW XVII, #3 for the White Letters and
some comments on
their interaction.
Yeah, I believe
I've read about Ed White's influence somewheres (perhaps in
Memory Babe - not
sure)... thanks, I will try and hunt down that issue...
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:11:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: ticket that exploded
Hello folks.
I just finished a
first reading of _The Ticket That Exploded_.
I was
wondering if
someone could comment on any passages that may be common between
_TTE_ and
_Electronic Revolution_. I have not read
ER, but the last 20 pages
or so of _TTE_ is
a sort of manual for (what is now a very primitive)
electronic
revolution.
Now into _Nova
Express_.
Minutes to go,
William Miller
BTW, I think the
best passage in _TTE_ was the description of the frogfaced
southern
sheriff. Suddenly I can't find that
passage -- anyone know if it's
in _TTE_ or is it in _The Soft Machine_?
>From _The
Soft Machine_ : "I was more
*physical before my *accident, you can
see from this
interesting picture"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:08:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk@KDSI.NET>
Subject: Re:
The Ticket That Exploded
On Thu, 16 May
1996, William Miller wrote:
> I just
finished a first reading of _The Ticket That Exploded_.
William, you
might be intereted in the following URL:
http://www.bigtable.com/wsb/0009f.html
It contains some
helpful information regarding Ticket, and it is part
of a larger
exploration of Burroughs' work.
Regards,
Luke
---
/\
/\ /\ /\
Luke Kelly
/\/
\/ \/\/ __o
/ \/\ lpk@kdsi.net or
/\ / /
\ / \<,_
/ \ lpk@bigtable.com
/ /
..... \ ...(_)/-(_).. .. \ http://www.bigtable.com
Please don't drive. Ride a bike! http://www.kdsi.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:42:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Kiriazis <kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
Subject: Re: Sketches of Kerouac
> As I've been reading Kerouac's Visions of
Cody I've become increasingly
>interested in
his technique of "sketching." Does anyone know how and when this
>style
originated? Was "October in the Railroad Earth" the first example of
this
>technique
that Kerouac went on to use more frequently? Also, are there any
>articles
(aside from the ones that kerouac himself wrote) out there on this
>technique and
how it is used in his books?
>
>just
wondering,
>JDL
There is an
excellent article that appeared in The American Poetry Review:
Jan/Feb.
1995. Written by Clark Coolidge, it is
entitled
"Kerouac". He talks about the writing style Of JK and
breaks it into three
categories: Alluvials, Sketching and Babble Flow. I use this article as a
introduction to
my students for spontaneous writing. If anyone is
interested, I can
try to scan it onto the computer.
Interesting
Note: Coolidge was present at the
infamous "Brandies University
Seminar" in
which JK took on his critics.
Bill Kiriazis
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:11:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Sketches of Kerouac
I would be very
interested in the obtaining a copy of that article...it sounds
fascinating...
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 21:27:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<and_how@IDIOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Sketches of Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96051620424426@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
> Interesting
Note: Coolidge was present at the
infamous "Brandies University
>
Seminar" in which JK took on his critics.
>
Where can I find
out more about this infamous seminar please?
--Andrew
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:43:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sketches of Kerouac
>>
Interesting Note: Coolidge was present
at the infamous "Brandies University
>>
Seminar" in which JK took on his critics.
>>
>
>Where can I
find out more about this infamous seminar please?
>
> --Andrew
A recording of
this is included in the Rhino records kerouac
collection--the 3
CD ROM package of his records.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:44:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Ticket That Exploded
Luke,
thanks for that
URL information.
William.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:33:25 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Sketches of Kerouac
Also the Kerouac
bio, MEMORY BABE goes into some detail the events leading up
to, during and
after his appearance there... very interesting stuff.
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:38:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: The Ticket that Exploded
> On Thu, 16
May 1996, William Miller wrote:
>
> > I just
finished a first reading of _The Ticket That Exploded_.
>
> William, you
might be intereted in the following URL:
>
> http://www.bigtable.com/wsb/0009f.html
>
> It contains
some helpful information regarding Ticket, and it is part
> of a larger
exploration of Burroughs' work.
I checked out the
URL with the thought in mind that the best summary, and
most elucidating
piece on any of the books in Burroughs's first trilogy is
to be found in
Skerl's _William S. Burroughs_. Much to my surprise it
was the passage
from Skerl's book. If you want a very easy bite-size
criticism of the
trilogy Skerl's book is excellent. Mottram's _Algebra of
Need_ is also an
excellent text, but tends to be more involved and
sometimes, I
found, more abstruse.
Answering the
original question about _Electronic Revolution_, ER is more
like _The Job_
than TTE. ER is a didactic, theoretical work that explains
some of
Burroughs's methods for experimenting with the word virus. There
are some
fictional vignettes interspersed throughout the text to
illustrate the
theories in practice, but the overall tone remains
didactic, Burroughs's
recipe for a revolution of consciousness. ER
includes the
"Feedback From Watergate to The Garden of Eden" section that
appears in _The
Job_. The second eponymously entitled part is a
continuation of
his theories:
[snip]
In "The
Invisible Generation" first published in IT and in the Los
Angeles Free
Press in 1966 and reprinted in _The Job_, I consider the
potentials of
thousands of people with tape recorders, portable and
stationary,
messages passed along like signal drums, a parody of the
President's
speech up and down the balconies, in and out open windows,
through walls,
over courtyards, taken up by barking dogs, muttering bums,
music, traffic
down windy streets, across parks and soccer fields.
Illusion is a
revolutionary weapon.
[snip]
He then goes on
to detail further specific uses of cut-up tapes as
revolutionary
weapons. TTE is very close to _The Job_ and ER in theme,
but not in style
or content. TTE brings the methods and theories about
the word as
virus, and cut-up weaponry into Burroughs's fictional world,
into the battle
between the Nova Mob and the rest of the Agents. ER would
be like a
companion piece to TTE if you want to look at it that way.
Incidentally, my
favourite part is when Lee or A.J. or whoever it is goes
to the Garden Of
Delights; Burroughs's attack on hallucinogenic using,
peace-loving,
utopia-believing, flower wearing, free sex hippies. Haha.
L. Kelly's site
is very good for those who haven't read a lot of
Burroughs but
want an overview of his career and writings. Tons of info
and great pics.
He lifted (with permission of course) a section of an
essay I did on
Ondaatje's Collected Works of Billy the Kid and
Burroughs's Place
of Dead Roads for his PODR section at
http://www.bigtable.com/wsb/0020a.html
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:25:27 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: The Ticket that Exploded
Yes, I agree that
that Burroughs site is one of the best I've seen -
particularly those
essays on Burroughs by J. Skerl - her insights and analysis
of Naked Lunch
was excellent!
well worth a
looksee,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 20:54:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: WSB, Hippos
Hello folks.
William Miller
here.
Thanks to Neil
[nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA (Neil Hennessy)]
for providing
more information on Burroughs' TTE and ER.
I plan to step into
Nova Express this
weekend.
I'm not visiting
every web site associated with all of these boys because I
just find it more
satisfying (GADS!) to actually read the book (paper, pages,
binding, and all
that) than to cyber-do it.
But I'll check
out that Big Table thing.
Neil (or anyone)
do you know if anyone has ever seen a part or whole copy of
the manuscript
for _And the Hippos were Boiled in their Tanks_ ?
BTW I still have
not found a copy of _You Can't Win_, by Jack Black, despite
having done
interlibrary loan requests. And working in a used bookstore. I
refuse to pay the
US$20 for a new copy from some publisher in Hawaii. Anyone
with any info on
Black's book (availability, price) please e-mail me directly
or post to the
list.
thanks.
William
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:32:22 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: b. gysins dreammachine & k. cobains
suicide
hi,
in the fabulous
booklet of the recently released cd "10 % under
burroughs"
featuring burroughs gysin huncke and many less known
characters,
there's a note saying that there could be some
connections
between nirvana's kurt cobain's suicide and brion gysin's
dreammachine.
what are these connections ?
jens
jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:50:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: ?
In a message
dated 96-05-19 23:36:43 EDT, sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de (Shar
Fitzpatrick)
writes:
>Subj: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server:
cunyvm: host not found)
(fwd)
>Date: 96-05-19 23:36:43 EDT
>From: sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de (Shar
Fitzpatrick)
>To: kenwnc@aol.com
>
> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> while the remaining parts are likely
unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
> Send mail to
mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.
>
>--TAA28271.832526911/pepps.pepperdine.de
>Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>Content-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.91.960520043216.29239C@pepps>
>
>Hi,
William. I cannot seem to get my mail to
go to everyone o
>the list so
if you wouldn-t mind forwarding this, I would
>appreciate
it. Thanks. Shar---
>I am hoping
this will work--I have been having the biggest problem with
>this little
e-mail system. Anyway, I have been
trying to find out about
>the Jack
Kerouac Institute in Colorado. It is
actually not named that,
>but known for
that. Also, if anyone knows the exact
dates of the Kerouac
>Festival in
Lowell, I'd appreciate it.
>Little
interesting fact: I was in Prague last
weekend and found Maggie
>Cassidy
translated into Czech.
>
>--TAA28271.832526911/pepps.pepperdine.de--
>
>
>-----------------------
Headers --------------------------------
>From
sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de Sun May 19
23:36:32 1996
>Return-Path:
sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de
>Received:
from pepps.pepperdine.de (pepps.pepperdine.de [194.175.254.10]) by
>emin22.mail.aol.com
(8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA26725 for
><kenwnc@aol.com>;
Sun, 19 May 1996 23:36:30 -0400
>Received:
(from sfitzpat@localhost) by pepps.pepperdine.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id
>EAA29244;
Mon, 20 May 1996 04:34:36 +0200
>Date: Mon, 20
May 1996 04:34:35 +0200 (MET DST)
>From: Shar
Fitzpatrick <sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de>
>To:
kenwnc@aol.com
>Subject:
Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: cunyvm: host not found)
>(fwd)
>Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.91.960520043216.29239A-110000@pepps>
>MIME-Version:
1.0
>Content-Type:
MULTIPART/MIXED;
>BOUNDARY="TAA28271.832526911/pepps.pepperdine.de"
>Content-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.91.960520043216.29239B@pepps>
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de (Shar Fitzpatrick)
To: kenwnc@aol.com
Date: 96-05-19
23:36:43 EDT
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely
unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu
for more info.
--TAA28271.832526911/pepps.pepperdine.de
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.91.960520043216.29239C@pepps>
Hi, William. I cannot seem to get my mail to go to
everyone o
the list so if
you wouldn-t mind forwarding this, I would
appreciate
it. Thanks. Shar--------- Forwarded
message
---------- Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:28:31 +0200
From: Mail
Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@pepps.pepperdine.de>
To:
sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de
Subject: Returned
mail: Host unknown (Name server: cunyvm: host not found)
The original
message was received at Sun, 19 May 1996 19:28:26 +0200
from
sfitzpat@localhost
----- The following addresses had delivery
problems -----
Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
(unrecoverable error)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM>... Host unknown (Name
server: cunyvm:
host not found)
----- Original message follows -----
--TAA28271.832526911/pepps.pepperdine.de
Content-Type:
MESSAGE/RFC822
Content-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.91.960520043216.29239D@pepps>
Return-Path:
sfitzpat
Received: (from
sfitzpat@localhost) by pepps.pepperdine.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id
TAA28270; Sun, 19
May 1996 19:28:26 +0200
Date: Sun, 19 May
1996 19:28:26 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Shar
Fitzpatrick <sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de>
To: William
Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
cc: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
Subject: Re: WSB,
Hippos
In-Reply-To:
<960517205428_303485269@emout17.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.91.960519192345.28206G-100000@pepps>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I am hoping this
will work--I have been having the biggest problem with
this little
e-mail system. Anyway, I have been
trying to find out about
the Jack Kerouac
Institute in Colorado. It is actually
not named that,
but known for
that. Also, if anyone knows the exact
dates of the Kerouac
Festival in
Lowell, I'd appreciate it.
Little interesting
fact: I was in Prague last weekend and
found Maggie
Cassidy
translated into Czech.
--TAA28271.832526911/pepps.pepperdine.de--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:21:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac School & Festival
Hello! Here's
contact information (someone requested & may be of interest to
others) on
The Naropa
Institute & Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics Summer
Programs (June
& July) plus Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Annual International
Festival (first
week October): Attn: Sue Hammond, School of Continuing
Education, The
Naropa Institute, 2130 Arapahoe Ave., Boulder, CO 80302-6697,
phone
303-546-3578; Mark Hemenway (took over as Director last year after
years of
incredible success by founder Brian Foye who is still active in
organization i.e.
Brian arranged for Patti Smith to perform at last year's
Festival), Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853, phone
508-454-0736.
Thanks! Any further related to these or other Beat World
goingson contact
me at: Ron Whitehead, White Fields Press, 1387 Lexington
Road, Louisville,
Kentucky 40206, phone 502-568-4956 or RWhiteBone@aol.com
Later, Ron 5/21/96 9:20AM
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:37:27 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Kerouac Festival
The 9th Annual
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Festival will be 3-6 October this
year. Send me
your snail mail address to get on the mailing list. Wrtie me
at Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853 or call me at
508-458-1721.
Yes, Brina Foye is still active and very much a part of the
organization.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:57:17 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Festival
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 21 May 1996 11:37:27 EDT from
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
On Tue, 21 May
1996 11:37:27 EDT mARK hEMENWAY said:
>The 9th
Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Festival will be 3-6 October this
>year. Send me
your snail mail address to get on the mailing list. Wrtie me
>at Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853 or call me at
>508-458-1721.
Yes, Brina Foye is still active and very much a part of the
>organization.
I'm not sure if
I'm already on your mailing list:
Blaine Allan
Film Studies
Queen's
University
Kingston, Ontario
Canada K7L 3N6
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:58:28 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Blaine Allan
<ALLANB@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Festival
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 21 May 1996 11:37:27 EDT from
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Damn. Hit that "send" key just a little
too quickly. Sorry, folks.
Blaine.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:13:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: The Ticket That Exploded
> Yes, I agree
that that Burroughs site is one of the best I've seen -
> particularly
those essays on Burroughs by J. Skerl - her insights and
> analysis
> of Naked
Lunch was excellent!
The essays (at
least the ones I've seen) are all excerpted from her book
_William S.
Burroughs_. Here is the complete biblio info:
Skerl, Jenny.
_William S. Burroughs_ G.K. Hall & Company: Boston, 1985.
Well worth
reading. Of particular interest to the biographical\fictional
debates that
occasionally rage on the list is her section on the role of
the
"Burroughs myth" in his fiction. Her book sticks to major works that
are widely
available and acts as an easy intro to Burroughs's oeuvre and
popular criticism
of his work.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:04:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tom Kackley
<104203.1770@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: cancel
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net>
Please remove me
from the mailing list. Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:59:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: WSB, Hippos
On Fri, 17 May
1996 20:54:29 -0400 William Miller <KenWNC@aol.com> wrote:
> Neil (or
anyone) do you know if anyone has ever seen a part or whole copy of
> the
manuscript for _And the Hippos were Boiled in their Tanks_ ?
This question was
bandied about the list a couple of months ago and I
think the answer
was that someone left it in a cab somewhere and it was
lost forever.
Everyone expressed their heartfelt desire that it be found
and published,
but no-one had heard of any extant MS :-(
> BTW I still
have not found a copy of _You Can't Win_, by Jack Black, despite
> having done
interlibrary loan requests. And working in a used bookstore. I
> refuse to
pay the US$20 for a new copy from some publisher in Hawaii. Anyone
> with any
info on Black's book (availability, price) please e-mail me directly
> or post to
the list.
Anyone who answers
this please post to the list. And if you (William
Miller) could be
so kind as to post the info about the Hawaii publisher
I'd appreciate
it. I've always wanted to get a copy of this work that had
such a
far-reaching influence on Burroughs. It would be interesting to
see the original
Salt Chunk Mary.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:09:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: b. gysins dreammachine & k.
cobains suicide
> in the
fabulous booklet of the recently released cd "10 % under
>
burroughs" featuring burroughs gysin huncke and many less known
> characters,
there's a note saying that there could be some
> connections
between nirvana's kurt cobain's suicide and brion gysin's
>
dreammachine. what are these connections ?
That Cobain used
the dreammachine to resurrect himself and is now living
with Elvis
flipping burgers at a McDonald's in Tucson. I haven't had a
chance to hear
the 10% cd yet, but I hope that is the only mention of
Kurt Cobain. His
work with Burroughs was without a doubt the worst music
accompanying a
Burroughs text I've ever heard. I wonder if Burroughs was in
the studio when
Cobain did it? I can just hear him after Cobain finishes
his little
tirade, "That's very nice son." My understanding is that the
reading was from
the hours upon hours of material from which _Spare Ass
Annie_ and _Dead
City Radio_ were born.
I can't believe
someone is actually trying to connect the dream machine
to Cobain's
suicide. What next?
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 18:01:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Hemenway & Kerouac
Have recvd
several inquiries in last two weeks bout Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival
with some folks wondering about changes since Mark Hemenway
replaced Brian
Foye as Director. Mark is his own person as is Brian. Both
have done and are
doing impeccable work with the festival that should and
hopefully will be
pronounced THE ANNUAL INTERNATIONAL KEROUAC FESTIVAL. It
continues to grow
by leaps & bounds but has also retained the quality &
hometown
friendliness that has been its trademark from the beginning. After
my first visit
years ago I was hooked & still am. There's nothing like
walking the
streets Jack walked, drinking in the bars, reading in the cafes,
standing leaning
over the railing mesmerized by the Merrimac, sitting
silently by his
grave & feeling his presence moving gently in the breeze. I
support Mark
& Brian in all they've done are doing & will do & by god after
all that I'm out
the door to drink a toast to both of them to Jack Kerouac &
to all of you.
Ron Whitehead
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:55:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Stephen Armstrong
<Steph17895@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Sources
A week or ten
days ago someone posted a WONDERFUL list of names, addresses,
etc. of
individuals and bookstores that are sources of Beat literature. My
e-mail got messed
up; would someone be kind enough to post this again?
Thanks!
Steve Armstrong
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:06:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Sources
At 09:55 PM
5/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>A week or ten
days ago someone posted a WONDERFUL list of names, addresses,
>etc. of
individuals and bookstores that are sources of Beat literature. My
>e-mail got
messed up; would someone be kind enough to post this again?
> Thanks!
> Steve Armstrong
>
>It was so
nice of Ron Whitehead to post this for us and here it is. If
anyone has any
more to add please do, especially used and rare book
catalogs.
Phil
Hello Phil
Chaput! Responding to your inquiry bout Steve Ronan's BEAT BOOKS &
other Beat
Publications. Here are a few names & addresses for you & I thought
some others might
desire: Stephen Ronan, Beat Books, P.O. Box 5813, Berkley,
CA 94705; Water
Row Books, P.O. Box 438, Sudbury, MA 01776
(Waterrow@aol.com);
Waiting for Godot, P.O. Box 331, Hadley, MA 01035 (FAX
413-586-1731);
Hanuman Books, 222 West 23rd St., NY NY 10011-2301 (FAX
212-633-8655);
Alpha Beat Press, 31 A. Waterloo St., New Hope, PA 18938
(215-862-0299);
Gotham Book Mart & Gallery, 41 West 47th St., NY NY 10036
(212-719-4448);
City Lights Books, 261 Columbus Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133
(415-362-1901);
Audio Literature, P.O. Box 7123, Berkley, CA 94707
(415-878-1831);
Rhino Records, 1720 Westwood Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90024
(310-474-8685);
Viking Penguin, 375 Hudson St., NY NY 10014; Grove Atlantic,
841 Broadway, NY
NY 10003; Thunder's Mouth Press, 93-99 Greene Street, NY NY
10012; Soft Skull
Press, 50 East Third Street #5A, NY NY 10003
(212-533-6152);
John LeBow Books, 117 Langford Road, Candia, NH 03034
(603-483-5595);
Hozomeen Press, P.O. Box 174, Mystic, Connecticut 06355
(HozmnPress@aol.com);
& White Fields Press, 1387 Lexington Road, Louisville,
Kentucky 40206,
(502-568-4956 or RWhiteBone@aol.com).
There are plenty
of others but this is a list of some of the main ones. If
you have any
questions or want more info let me know. All the Best, Ron
Whitehead
(RWhiteBone@aol.com) 5/10/96 12:24PM
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:03:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: You Can't Win
Folks,
As soon as I can,
I will look in _Books In Print_ and find that information
about the Jack
Black book.
I thought that I
had it here at the house, but I don't.
All I seem to
remember now is that it was $19.95 and from some publisher in
Hawaii.
I believe that
the Hawaii folks were the only people that had it listed.
That could have been the 1995 BiP, I don't
know if it was '95 or '96.
I'll report what
I can get out of the most current volume.
I work at the
library, but they never give us any money for nothin.
William
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:04:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: You Can't Win: Hawaii Address.
Hello folks.
To all interested
parties, I found this information regarding a certain
volume which
influenced, so say the sources, a young WSB2.
From the
1995-1996 BiP.
Jack Black
_You Can't Win_
$US18.95
099204155
Omnium
Omnium
P.O.Box 5020
Kukuihaele,
Hawaii
96727
To the best of my
knowledge, Amok Press formerly carried the book, but no
longer carries
the book.
Word begets image
and image *is* virus.
Yours in Bill.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:51:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: SHE
I saw Gregory
Corso a couple of years ago and he read his poem "Marriage."
When he got to
the part:
"...Like SHE in her lonely
alien gaud..."
he said he was
refering to a popular novel of that time entitled "SHE." Does
anyone have any
idea who the author of that novel is or if it is still in
print?
Paul McDonald
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:20:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Dean <mickdean@UVIC.CA>
Subject: Re: SHE
> "...Like SHE in her lonely
alien gaud..."
>
>he said he
was refering to a popular novel of that time entitled "SHE." Does
>anyone have
any idea who the author of that novel is or if it is still in
>print?
"She"
by Ryder Haggard, should still be in print, a ridiculous story.
Also made into a
film, starring Ursula Andress.
Mickey Dean
mickdean@uvic.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:31:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Buschini <joeb@SMPLANET.COM>
Subject: Re: SHE
> "...Like SHE in her lonely
alien gaud..."
>
>refering to a
popular novel of that time entitled "SHE." Does
>anyone have
any idea who the author of that novel is or if it is still in
>print?
"She"
is an H. Rider Haggard adventure novel from the 1880s. I suspect that
Corso alludes to
the B-movie version of the novel, which appeared in the
early 60s. I
don't remember much of the plot, but it involved an empress
who remained
alive for centuries awiting the reincarnation of her lover.
Joe
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:23:25 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: BONNIE LEE HOWARD
<HOWARDB@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: SHE
=I saw Gregory
Corso a couple of years ago and he read his poem "Marriage."
=When he got to
the part:
= "...Like SHE in her lonely
alien gaud..."
=he said he was
refering to a popular novel of that time entitled "SHE." Does
=anyone have any
idea who the author of that novel is or if it is still in
=print?
=Paul McDonald
=Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
>From
HALLIWELL'S FILMGOERS COMPANION:
She.
"Seven
silent versions were made of Rider Haggard's adventure fantasy
about a lost
tribe, an ageless queen, and a flame of eternal life in
Darkest Africa.
Only the last remains, made in London and Berlin by
G.B. Samuelson,
with Betty Blythe and Carlyle Blackwell. In 1934 in
Hollywood, Merian
Cooper and Ernest Schoedsack remade the story in a
North Pole
setting, with Helen Gahagan and Randolph Scott. In 1965
came a lifeless
Hammer version directed by Robert Day, with Ursula
Andress and John
Ricardson; this was followed in 1968 by a sequel,
THE VENGEANCE OF
SHE, which was more than slightly potty."
Hope this helps,
still have no idea if it's in print or not, though.
Bonnie
howardb@sonoma.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:43:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: request
I got this
request and don't know the answer. The
person who
wrote it seems
pretty urgent -- can anyone help?
> From
dawn@ibhere.demon.co.uk Thu May 23 10:46:53 1996
> Date: Thu,
23 May 1996 06:26:29 -0700
> From: Dawn
Ullman <dawn@ibhere.demon.co.uk>
> To:
brooklyn@netcom.com
> Subject:
william s burroughs
>
> PLEASE
PLEASE PLEASE, can you possibly help me (i kinda know you will if
> you can, just
been reading about the kinda guy you are on you web page.)
> here's the
story:
> not so long
ago m.t.v.'s chillout zone showed a video of william
> burroughs
THANKS GIVING PRAYER not the release version on the l.p but a
> kinda mixed
version with an upbeat tune and a female vocalist, i have
> tried
desperately to track this down to no avail my last resort may lie
> with you
(hope this put pressure on you ;-) ). i would like to know what
> it is or
anything about it really, please help one desperate lady (i like
> to think of
myself as that ) i will be iternally grateful for this can
> you email me
any response even if it is glim.
> many many
many thanks
>
>--
>bye
>dawnieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
Let's head back to
Tennessee, Jed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:51:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: SHE
Hello! In
response to Paul McDonald's question bout Corso's SHE reference.
Check out H.
Rider Haggard's SHE. Haggard wrote many books. Lived 1856-1925.
couple movies
based on or born out of book including recent turd KING
SOLOMON's MINES.
also check Queen of Sheba, Solomon, etc. and if interested
also check out A
STRANGE STORY: An Alchemical Novel by Edward Bulwer Lytton.
Later, Ron
Whitehead 5/23/96 3:50PM
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:53:52 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: SHE
And perhaps a
sideways allusion(without meaning it) to Ferlinghetti's novel,
HER...
Jon Schwartz
jbs@uwyo.edu
>> "...Like SHE in her lonely
alien gaud..."
>>
>>he said
he was refering to a popular novel of that time entitled "SHE."
Does
>>anyone
have any idea who the author of that novel is or if it is still in
>>print?
>
>"She"
by Ryder Haggard, should still be in print, a ridiculous story.
>
>Also made
into a film, starring Ursula Andress.
>
>Mickey Dean
>mickdean@uvic.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:15:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: SHE HER Ferlinghetti Burroughs &
Chicago Review
"In the
Deconstructing faux corridors of Academia, with faint sound of
hysterical
laughter in the distance, The Dead somberly splash in their
shallow sewers
devouring and regurgitating themselves" (The Bone Man).
A comparison of
SHE (1887) by Haggard to HER (1961) by Ferlinghetti is like
comparing TOM
SAWYER to ULYSSES. Burroughs NAKED LUNCH is the "pre-eminent
achievement in
postwar American fiction" (see Geoff Ward's "Burroughs: a
Literary
Outlaw?" in THE CAMBRIDGE QUARTERLY vol 22 #4 1993), Kerouac's prose
& poetry
ranks with the smallest handful of the best, Ginsberg's HOWL stands
side by side with
Munch's THE SCREAM (although 1890s) as the poem painting
best representing
humankind's 20th Century torment (yes a case can be made
for Eliot's THE
WASTE LAND for holding that position for 1st half-century),
Ferlinghetti's
A CONEY ISLAND OF
THE MIND has sold more copies internationally than any book
of poems by any
living poet. The Beat Generation is the most important group
of writers in the
history of America and in time will be compared to the
British Romantics
in level of importance despite all the eye rolling that
continues to go
on in that bastion of conservatism called Academia. But The
Beats (&
please include San Francisco Renaissance. if you want to go further
& include
Black Mountain & New York School let's discuss. of course I'd love
to discuss any of
this with any of YOu) are much more important than the
British Romantics
(maybe timing) because their impact reaches beyond
literature (the
arts) into culture much further than even Blake ever hoped
for.
Anyway back to
Haggard & Ferlinghetti. Sir Henry Rider Haggard (1856-1925)
was one of the
most successful writers of popular fiction in late 19th
Century England.
He wrote 58 volumes fiction plus 7 other books. SHE is the
story of Ayesha,
a white goddess of Africa who is 2,000 years old but still
appears young
& beautiful. Lawrence Ferlinghetti
(1919 - ), at the
age of 77, in Italy at the moment with exhibition opening
of his art at
main museum in Rome, is underappreciated warrior member of
tribe called The
Beats.
HER, called
"a masterpiece of the young American novel" (Pierre Lepape), pays
homage to James
Joyce (originator of Burroughs' survival standard "silence,
exile and
cunning") and Surrealism, has been compared to French new novel
anti-novel by
Robbe-Grillet & Michel Butor, but as always with Ferlinghetti
it speaks with
his own incomparable original voice. The anti-hero quest
narrative is
labyrinth-dream of highest surreal order.
But now I want to
bring up another point which is that Lawrence Ferlinghetti
is a
Misunderstood American Giant. How? Why?
Today
"Specialization" is sold on every corner, fed in every home,
brainwashed in to
every student. We are told that the only way to succeed,
here at the end
of the 20th Century, and certainly tomorrow in the 21st
Century, is to
put all our time, energy, learning, and focus into one are,
one field, one
specialty (math, science, computer technology, business). If
we don't we will
fail. We are subtly and forcefully, implicitly and
explicitly,
encouraged to deny the rest of who we are, our total self,
selves, our
holistic being. The Postmodern brave new world seems to reside
inside the
computer The Web with only faint peripheral recognition of the
person, the
individual (& by extension the real global community), the real
human being
operating the machine. The idea of and
belief in specialization
as the only path,
only possibility, has sped up the fragmentation, the
alienation which
began to grow rapidly within the individual, radically
reshaping
culture, a century ago with the birth of those Machiavellian
revolutions in
technology, industry, and war. And with the growing fracturing
fragmentation and
alienation come the path - anger, fear, anxiety, angst,
ennui, nihilism,
depression, despair - that, for the person of action, leads
to suicide.
Unless, through our paradoxical leap of faith we engage ourselves
in the belief,
which can become a life mission, that, regardless of the
consequences, we
can, through our engagement, our actions, our loving life
work, make the
world a better, safer, friendlier place in which to live.
Sound naive? Are
we too desensitized to the violence, to the fact that in
this Century
alone we have murdered over 100 million people in one war after
another, to even
think it worthwhile to consider the possibility of a less
violent world?
Are we too small, too insignificant to make any kind of
difference? The
power-mongers have control. What difference can one measly
little individual
life possibly make, possibly matter?
Today the sadly
mislabeled Generation X is swollen with thousands of young
people yearning
to express the creative energy buried in their hearts,
seeping from
their lips, eyes, ears, noses, fingers etc. They ache to change
to heal the
world. Is it still possible? Is it too late? Is there anyone (a
group?) left to
show the way? To set an example? To be a guide? A mentor?
James Joyce, King
of Modernism, said the idea of the hero was nothing but a
damn lie that the
primary motivating forces are passion and compassion. As
late as 1984
people were laughing at George Orwell. today as we finally move
full force into
an Orwellian culture of simulation life on the screen
landscape can we
remember passion and compassion or has the Postmodern ironic
satyric deathinlifegame
laugh killed both sperm and egg? Is there anywhere
worth going from
here?
In 1996, at the
age of 77, Lawrence Ferlinghetti is as active as he was forty
years ago when he
became engaged as a poet, writer, editor, publisher,
artist, and
operator of the bookstore and press that quickly became, and
still is, the
Mecca of small, independent, individually owned and operated
bookstores and
presses and their associated writers and readers. In a world,
in an age where
multi-national corporations and militaries are controlling
more and more of
what the masses think, say, and do City Lights has become so
significant, a
bright and shining star in an ever darkening sky.
I've heard (and
read) the comment made about Lawrence Ferlinghetti that he's
a businessman. If
Lawrence Ferlinghetti is a businessman then so was James
Joyce. And if
James Joyce was a writer then so is Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
Certain people
have said they respect Lawrence Ferlinghetti for what he's
done as a
publisher but have doubts about his writing. I say those people
have not read,
have not studied deeply Lawrence Ferlinghetti' poetry and
prose. Early
critics of James Joyce made statements, placed labels, that
reveal now that
they didn't examine Joyce's work carefully, or couldn't
understand his
work and therefore denigrated the work and the person (yes you
can certainly
place Burroughs, Kerouac, & Ginsberg here too). Despite the
access of a
broader audience than most of the Beats and San Francisco
Renaissance
writers, Lawrence Ferlinghetti's poetry and prose has a depth, a
deep resonance in
emotional and literary allusion and connection to the
family of modern
(as well as postmodern & beyond) writers, artists, and
musicians that is
equal to any of the writers he is so often compared to or
even worse whose
group he is left out of when comparisons are made
i.e. Ginsberg,
Burroughs, Corso, Kerouac. There are several reasons for this
and I'll only
touch on a couple here: Lawrence Ferlinghetti does not, neither
in live performance,
nor on the page, slap you in the face, hit you over the
head, or yell in
your ear. And there's nothing wrong with any of the above
it's just that
Ferlinghetti approaches the listener, the reader differently
(like Burroughs,
Ginsberg, Corso: try & imagine a similar voice). He
emphatically
whispers, gently sings, his poems, his prose, in such a subtle,
yet forceful,
manner that he mesmerizes, hypnotizes and takes us to a land, a
place, where we
recognize that there are alternative realities, there is the
probability,
through inner and outer action, of a number (infinite?) of other
possible
experiences, realities, worlds we can choose for our selves, our
lives. Even the
blank spaces between his words are filled with the audible
sound of the universe,
the OM which presents us with the recognition that we
don't have to
only specialize to succeed. And that same sound implores us to
question: whose
vision of success are we buying, accepting anyway? The ones
we're sold by
coporations and militaries or are we looking within to discover
our own?
Ferlinghetti's work leads us to the path of realization that we
don't ever have
to accept what is expected of us, what we're told to do and
to be. Question
everything before we accept anything.
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti has not been considered as he should be, as his life
and work calls
out, pleads, compels us to consider, to examine, to
experience, to
attempt to understand. Because of his association with The
Beats, The San
Francisco Renaissance, The Outsiders of Academia he has not
been accepted
into the academy's Canon. Because of his so-called Business
Association
through City Lights he has not been accepted into the inner Beat
Canon. Lawrence
Ferlinghetti has influenced and continues to influence our
collective
culture in more individually human ways as only a small handful of
poets, writers,
artists, and musicians have been able to manage in the past
hundred years.
The time has come to open our doors, let down our walls and
let in the light,
give recognition to this Misunderstood American Giant,
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti.
Ron Whitehead 5/23/96 11:14PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:54:35 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Thorn
<mthorn@FASTNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: SHE HER Ferlinghetti Burroughs &
Chicago Review
A CONEY ISLAND OF
THE MIND has sold more copies internationally than any book
of poems by any
living poet.
I'm as willing as
the next person to give Ferlinghetti
his due
but this claim
sounds overstated...
I'd be interested
to know the sales figures
on which it's
based
Michael Thorn
mthorn@fastnet.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:58:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: SHE HER Ferlinghetti Burroughs &
Chicago Review
Hello Michael!
Yer absolutely right. it is overstated. by any living American
poet is correct.
thank you for correcting me. as to verifying figures check
any number of
sources. All the Best, Ron Whitehead 5/24/96
6:57PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:04:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: A CONEY ISLAND OF THE NUMBERS
Hello again!
Right after I sent Ferlinghetti message last night I copied &
read & saw
immediately that I had left out American & so implication was
world sales.
Thanks again to Michael for correcting me. I'll be kick me in
the ass and thump
my ears. See ya'll.
Ron
"Rollo" Whitehead 5/24/96 7:03PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:16:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: A CONEY ISLAND OF THE NUMBERS
At 07:04 PM
5/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello again!
Right after I sent Ferlinghetti message last night I copied &
>read &
saw immediately that I had left out American & so implication was
>world sales.
Thanks again to Michael for correcting me. I'll be kick me in
>the ass and
thump my ears. See ya'll.
>Ron
"Rollo" Whitehead 5/24/96 7:03PM
>
>Without a
doubt he is one of the best poets and also a real nice guy. I
have met him
several times at the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Festival. If
anyone out there
hasn't read "Canticle of Jack Kerouac" I highly recommend
it. It is my
favorite of his and he is my favorite poet. Has anyone heard
how his health
is? I heard he had a bypass operation. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 11:15:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ferlinghetti's health
Hello Phil &
anyone else interested in Lawrence Ferlinghetti's health. Spring
'95 I visited
with Lawrence for 3 days at Univ of Charleston, West Virginia.
He had spell with
heart then. In NYC at NYU's Jack Kerouac Symposium, June
'95, Lawrence had
several spells with heart but refused to see doctor. Upon
return to San
Francisco heart spells intensifying he visited his physician
who rushed him to
hospital saying it was almost too late & a wonder he'd made
this long. Touch
& go for a while but Lawrence rebounded like a kid and by
August when I
visited him in San Francisco he was already working out with
Nancy Peters,
moving at furious pace doing final editing on City Lights'
Anthology, &
looking at least 95% back to full throttle. Talked with him
several times
over phone & could sense energy returning then visited with him
early this month
in D.C. & he's back to 110% kicking ass taking the heat the
flack the lonely
voiced criticism of him being a shrewd businessman bullshit
& proving
through his poetry (reading at National Portrait Gallery with
Ginsberg, Corso,
McClure, Creeley, Amram, etc) & his open friendly &
supportive
attitude towards newcomers & oldcomers that he is (despite
mistakes he's
made & despite criticism attempting to stone him out of inner
Beat circle) one
of the truly great humanitarian individualists & poets in
this beaten down
ramshackled world. Lawrence is in Italy now until June
seeing to
opening(s) of art exhibition at Palazzo Delle Espofizione (The
Museum of Modern
Art in Rome). Thanks for asking!
Later, Ron
Whitehead 5/25/96 10:53PM
P.S. World Premiere
of 57-minute documentary on Lawrence Ferlinghetti by
Chris Felver
(along with release celebration of Chris' new book of photograph
portraits of
famous poets & writers. Coppola has had hand in production of
documentary) will
be held at
big event in New
Orleans I'm producing August 16-18 called: RANT for the
literary
renaissance & The Majic Bus present RANT eats New Orleans 48-Hour
Non-Stop Music
& Poetry INSOMNIACATHON Aug 16-18 at The Howlin Wolf Club &
The New Orleans
Contemporary Arts Center. Actually looks like may be
57-hours. Event
will feature numerous old & new voices poets writers
musicians bands
including Diane di Prima, Ed Sanders, Robert Creeley,
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti, David Amram, Andrei Codrescu, John Rechy, E. Ethelbert
Miller, Jay
McInerney, Mike Watt & band, Pere Ubu, Lee Ranaldo, Yo La Tengo,
Richard Hell,
Robert Palmer, Julian Bond, Todd Colby, Brenda Coultas, Leah
Singer, The Black
Pig Liberation Front, Louis Bickett & The Cultural Mud Man,
Frank Messina
& Spoken Motion, The Amazing Chan Klan, Marsallis Family,
Ishmael Reed,
John Sinclair, Ramblin Jack Elliott, Dennis Formento, Kalamu
Yasalaam, Arthur
Pfister, & numerous others plus special guest appearances
plus SPECIAL
ERECTION CEREMONY OF HISTORIC MARKER AT WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS
ALGERS HOME.
CORPSE (formerly EXQUISITE CORPSE) devoting entire issue to
INSOMNIACATHON.
TRIBE magazine promoting event plus devoting entire August
issue to event.
COMPOST magazine (Boston, NYC) devoting entire issue to
Ferlinghetti
based round/on event.
I'm doing booking
for performers now & will be completely done no later than
June 15th (headed
to New Orleans immediately following Sunday reading.
meeting with
Douglas Brinkley, Lee Lavere, TRIBE, CORPSE). Any questions bout
performance or
event give me a holler at RWhiteBone@aol.com or 502-568-4956.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:25:20 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti's health
In-Reply-To:
<960525111510_203808230@emout18.mail.aol.com>
In your message
you mention that John Rechy will be at INSOMNIACATHON.
His "City of
Night" is still one of my favourite books of the period.
What is he up to
now?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:17:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kathleen Kennedy
<kk30@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: unsubscribe
Please cancel my
subscription to this listserv.
Thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 20:23:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Testing
forza@concentric.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 00:08:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher D. Ritter"
<corduroy@DONET.COM>
Organization:
Corduroy's Coffeehouse
Subject: Test
__________
.........|
____________________________
.o..o..o.|
.........| CORDUROY'S COFFEEHOUSE
--------.| & literary cafe
==|_|
||
==[===] ||
http://www.serve.com/Critter
|___| ||
--------.| christopher d. ritter
..KRUPS..| corduroy@donet.com
.........|
____________________________
========
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 09:35:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti's health
For what its
worth, I thought Lawrence Ferlingetti looked great at the Rebel
Poets symposium
in Wash DC last month. I've seen him a
few times before,
often he seemed
sort of bothered and generally pissed off.
Not last month!
He seemed real relaxed and moved witth as much
as can be expected for a
fellow of his
age. Long may his light burn!
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 12:14:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher D. Ritter"
<corduroy@DONET.COM>
Organization:
Corduroy's Coffeehouse
Subject: Requested Information on the Avant-Liste
It's been awhile
since I've been able to do anything with
the Inet, but I
have information that a few people were asking
for. Hopefully
this isn't out of place too much.
The Avant-Liste: Through the Large Looking
Glass
-------------------===========------------------
The
Avant-Listserve is now up and running, ready to receive
the masses of
pseudo-intellectuals jonesing for a heated debate
on the
progressive arts. From poetry to prose, drama and cinema,
nothing is left
unscrutinized! Join us with a digital demitasse-
full of your
favorite bean fluid and bring your work! Not only
do we discuss the
masters of art and literature, but we also
share our own!
(Pre-teen angst poets and little love couplet
writers need not
apply.)
To subscribe to
the Avant-Liste, simply send a message to:
listproc@list.serve.com
With the
following message in the body (and NO subject):
subscribe avant-liste [your name]
If you have any
questions on the nature of the list or anything
else, please
contact the list owner, christopher ritter.
..Critter
--
__________ CORDUROY'S COFFEEHOUSE
.........| & literary cafe
.o..o..o.| -
http://www.serve.com/Critter -
.........|
--------.| christopher d. ritter
==|_|
|| - corduroy@donet.com -
==[===] ||
|___| ||
- The Avant-Liste -
--------.| To subscribe send a message to:
..KRUPS..| listproc@list.serve.com
.........| With
no subject, in the body type:
========
SUBSCRIBE AVANT-LISTE [YOUR NAME]
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:09:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVID W MYERS <dwm3766@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ferlinghetti's health
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@listserv.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<960527093511_204667835@emout13.mail.aol.com>
Hello group,
I'm new to this
list, and I have a (possibly) naive question to ask.
Does anyone know
of an annotated version of On the Road? I am interested
in making an
index of places, characters, events, etc. in OTR for the
use of scholars
or general readership.
I understand it is
unusual to index a work of fiction. But because
Kerouac modelled
his fiction so closely on his real life I think this may
be a useful
finding aid for scholars and others searching for quotes,
story lines, or
anything else needed for an essay or article.
I would love to
hear some comments about this idea.
David Myers
School of Library
and Information Science
Florida State
University
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:49:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: annotated Joyce & Kerouac
Hello David Myers
& anyone else interested in Annotated Kerouac. The new A
Jack Kerouac
ROMnibus includes annotations to works (i.e. The Dharma Bums) &
in a way is
itlself an annotation to the life of Jack Kerouac. As to an
Annotated On the
Road (as in annotated like James Joyce's work for use by
students scholars
& other interested peoples outside the Ivory Tower of
Academia) check
with David Stanford, Senior Editor, Viking Penguin, 375
Hudson Street,
4th Floor, NY NY 10014.
All the Best, Ron
Whitehead RWhiteBone@aol.com 5/28/96
1:49PM
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:31:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "P.G. Springer"
<hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>
Subject: 23
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.960528125650.20122A-100000@mailer.fsu.edu>
Where can I find
William Burroughs' explanation of his use (and the power
of) the number
"23"? I also recall reading
some encyclopedia of
mysticism (by
Colin Wilson?) on the subject of the number 23.
Anybody
know these
references?
Born on the 23rd
of July,
PGS
"To be great
is to be misunderstood." -- Emerson
"Self-knowledge
is always bad news." -- Barth
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:12:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: 23
> Where can I
find William Burroughs' explanation of his use (and the power
> of) the
number "23"?
In Jennie Skerl's
book she mentions that she asked Burroughs if the
number 23 had any
special significance and he said, "No, it's just a
number." Not
sure about the page number, but you can probably find it in
the index or
something.
The most frequent
use I've ever seen of the number 23 was in the Dead
Star magazine.
The entire story revolved around the number 23 showing up
as the day Dutch
Schultz died, the number of casualties in a plane crash,
number of victims
in an earthquake. Burroughs includes pictures of the
newspaper
headlines and articles with the number 23 underlined so you can
see that he
wasn't making it up. Of course there is the language virus
B-23 that one
sees extensively in his work. But B-23 also mutates into a
sexual virus in
Blade Runner: A Movie. It seems Burroughs chose an
arbitrary number
that kept showing up with unusual frequency in horrible
situations. 23 is
the number of doom. And of course once you recognise a
number as
special, you will take note of it every time it comes up.
Good Luck finding
any more info. That's the only mention of it I can
remember.
Cheers,
Neil
"At guard
from North Carolina, Number 23, Michael Jordan"
Chicago Bulls announcer
PS Here is the
biblio info for The Dead Star:
The Dead Star
Nova Broadcast
Press, San Francisco, 1969.
I found it in the
rare book room of The University of Waterloo library. I
don't imagine you
would find it anywhere but a rare book collection.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 19:43:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Testing, again:)
Timothy Leary is
dying, and I don't feel very good myself...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 02:09:51 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: 23
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On May 28, 1996
15:12:47, 'Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>' wrote:
>. 23 is the
number of doom. And of course once you recognise a
>number as
special, you will take note of it every time it comes up.
>
>Good Luck
finding any more info. That's the only mention of it I can
>remember.
>
>Cheers,
>Neil
>
>"At
guard from North Carolina, Number 23, Michael Jordan"
Don't forget
"23 skidoo," a "hip" saying from the twenties and the title
of
a performance art
piece co-produced by Burroughs years ago in NYC. Mark J
>Chicago Bulls
announcer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:38:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: nappodd2
<nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: Kerouac's picaresque novels
Hello everyone,
I'm new to this Beat list, but I'm
really excited about talking with
all of you about
some of the best best writers and poets this country has
yet
produced. I study quite a bit of Spanish
and Spanish American
literature; given
that, I've been very interested in an apocryphal statement
of Kerouac's
where he claimed that "all of my novels are really picaresque
novels"--or
something like that. He may have said it
towards the end of his
life. Does anyone know about it or where I could
find it?
Best,
Dan Nappo
ps. I sent this letter out earlier this week, but
because of some computer
glitches, I never
received and responses--in fact, I'm not even sure it was
mailed. If you've read this before, please be patient
with a computer
semi-literate.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:09:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's picaresque novels
At 10:38 PM
5/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello
everyone,
> I'm new to this Beat list, but I'm
really excited about talking with
>all of you
about some of the best best writers and poets this country has
>yet
produced. I study quite a bit of Spanish
and Spanish American
>literature;
given that, I've been very interested in an apocryphal statement
>of Kerouac's
where he claimed that "all of my novels are really picaresque
>novels"--or
something like that. He may have said it
towards the end of his
>life. Does anyone know about it or where I could
find it?
>
He said it and
meant it! All his novels deal with picaresque(dealing with
sharpwited
vagabonds and there rougish adventures) What could be more
Kerowakian than
that. That statment was not apocryphal YOU ARE APOCRYPHAL!
Kerouac is the
teller of truths he wasn't a lier he was a man of God.
His beleives that
Wild men who kill
have karmas of ill
Good men who love
have karmas of dove
>Dan Nappo
>
>ps. I sent this letter out earlier this week, but
because of some computer
>glitches, I
never received and responses--in fact, I'm not even sure it was
>mailed. If you've read this before, please be patient
with a computer
>semi-literate.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 06:12:39 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Marcus Williamson
<71333.1665@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Number 23
See :
http://www.impropaganda.com/~street/detour/23.html
For the following
info plus more about the number
23.
regards
Marcus
Burrough's 23
Enigma
In the early
'60's in Tangier, William
Burroughs knew a
certain Captain
Clark who ran a
ferry from Tangier
to Spain. One
day, Clark said to
Burroughs that
he'd been running
the ferry 23
years without an
accident. That
very day the ferry
sank, killing
Clark and everybody
aboard. In the
evening, Burroughs
was thinking
about this when he
turned on the
radio. The first
newscast told
about the crash of
an airline plane
on the New
York-Miami route.
The pilot was
another Captain
Clark and the
flight was listed
as Flight 23 (ala
the line
"Captain Clark welcomes
you
aboard,")
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 07:50:45 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: 23
I *think* the
origin of the 23 as a "charged" number with odd significance,
usign the
examples below originated in the conspiracy free-for-all trilogy
by Robert Anton
Wilson and a co-author known as the Illuminatus trilogy,
circa
1970's. At least, that's where I first
read about it.
Jon Schwartz
jbs@uwyo.edu
>
>> Where
can I find William Burroughs' explanation of his use (and the power
>> of) the
number "23"?
>
>In Jennie
Skerl's book she mentions that she asked Burroughs if the
>number 23 had
any special significance and he said, "No, it's just a
>number."
Not sure about the page number, but you can probably find it in
>the index or
something.
>
>The most
frequent use I've ever seen of the number 23 was in the Dead
>Star
magazine. The entire story revolved around the number 23 showing up
>as the day
Dutch Schultz died, the number of casualties in a plane crash,
>number of
victims in an earthquake. Burroughs includes pictures of the
>newspaper
headlines and articles with the number 23 underlined so you can
>see that he
wasn't making it up. Of course there is the language virus
>B-23 that one
sees extensively in his work. But B-23 also mutates into a
>sexual virus
in Blade Runner: A Movie. It seems Burroughs chose an
>arbitrary
number that kept showing up with unusual frequency in horrible
>situations.
23 is the number of doom. And of course once you recognise a
>number as
special, you will take note of it every time it comes up.
>
>Good Luck
finding any more info. That's the only mention of it I can
>remember.
>
>Cheers,
>Neil
>
>"At
guard from North Carolina, Number 23, Michael Jordan"
>
Chicago Bulls announcer
>
>PS Here is
the biblio info for The Dead Star:
>
>The Dead Star
>Nova Broadcast
Press, San Francisco, 1969.
>
>I found it in
the rare book room of The University of Waterloo library. I
>don't imagine
you would find it anywhere but a rare book collection.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:12:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: 23
In-Reply-To:
<199605290209.CAA15032@pipe2.t2.usa.pipeline.com> from "s.
mark
johnson" at May 29, 96
02:09:51 am
> >. 23 is
the number of doom. And of course once you recognise a
> >number
as special, you will take note of it every time it comes up.
> >
> >Good
Luck finding any more info. That's the only mention of it I can
>
>remember.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Neil
> >
> >"At
guard from North Carolina, Number 23, Michael Jordan"
>
>
> Don't forget
"23 skidoo," a "hip" saying from the twenties and the title
of
> a
performance art piece co-produced by Burroughs years ago in NYC. Mark J
> >Chicago
Bulls announcer
in jitterbug
perfume.....K23.....and timothy leary may be leaving this
world, but tis a
far far better place he is going.....you don't need
america online to
be connected....
read some of
"women" the other day in that decadent barnes and noble on
66th and
broadway....felt so touched by this man that i cried...i pity
the women who
find his truth offensive....i see the women in this
book....i was a
woman in this book....i am now a woman the likes of which i
have never known,
but i remember the pain in the lack of
communication.....very
touching.....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 16:10:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's picaresque novels
At 11:09 PM
5/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:38 PM
5/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Hello
everyone,
>> I'm new to this Beat list, but I'm
really excited about talking with
>>all of
you about some of the best best writers and poets this country has
>>yet
produced. I study quite a bit of Spanish
and Spanish American
>>literature;
given that, I've been very interested in an apocryphal statement
>>of
Kerouac's where he claimed that "all of my novels are really picaresque
>>novels"--or
something like that. He may have said it
towards the end of his
>>life. Does anyone know about it or where I could
find it?
>>
>He said it
and meant it! All his novels deal with picaresque(dealing with
>sharpwited
vagabonds and there rougish adventures) What could be more
>Kerowakian
than that. That statment was not apocryphal YOU ARE APOCRYPHAL!
>Kerouac is
the teller of truths he wasn't a lier he was a man of God.
> His beleives that
> Wild men who kill
> have karmas of ill
> Good men who love
> have karmas of dove
>
>Hope you
didn't take this seriously WELCOME TO THE LIST. P.C.
>
>
>
>
>>Dan Nappo
>>
>>ps. I sent this letter out earlier this week, but
because of some computer
>>glitches,
I never received and responses--in fact, I'm not even sure it was
>>mailed. If you've read this before, please be patient
with a computer
>>semi-literate.
>>
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 18:07:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: 23
>I *think* the
origin of the 23 as a "charged" number with odd >significance,
using the
examples below originated in the >conspiracy free-for-all trilogy
by Robert Anton
Wilson and a >co-author known as the Illuminatus trilogy,
circa
1970's. At >least, that's where I
first read about it.
Me too, however
Burroughs' interest in the number dates back farther. There
was a brief
thread several months ago here on this topic. I can't find the
original
message(s), but the gist of it is that while Burroughs was in
Tangier, he ran
across a newspaper article about a grisly murder which
occurred at a
place with the street number 23. Several days later, he found
another article,
this one, I believe, about a shipwreck, and the birthdate of
the ship's
captain was the 23rd. {I may have some of theses details a bit
garbled, but
hopefully you get the idea.) He began collecting occurrences of
the number 23,
and, as Neil Hennessey points out: "once you recognise a
number as
special, you will take note of it every time it comes up."
Incidentally, 23
is a prime number, its integers, 2 & 3, are considered to
have mystical
significance in their own right, and they add up to five, also
considered a
mystical number, and the base of our arithmetic system besides.
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 14:34:22 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Camaiani
<tony.c@RINASCITA.IT>
Subject: Beat in Italy
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@ICINECA.CINECA.IT
Hi Everybody,
I am an Italian
Guy ang I have read about This Mailinglist
on a
Newspaper(called Musica)
I have read
something of Jack Kerouac and I wanto to ask
you some material
about Him (some Poems ...and other)
Or some
interessant URL
Thank to all
______ ____
___ ______ ___
/
\ / \ | \| |\ \/ /
\__
__/| ~ ||
| \ /
|__| \____/ |__|\__| |__| ... ON Z BEACH
~ Camaiani Antonio ~
- tony.c@rinascita.it --
camaiani@cs.unibo.it -
- www.cs.unibo.it/~camaiani
-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:00:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JoAnn Ruvoli
<jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat in Italy
In-Reply-To:
<9605301234.AA01069@cygnus.rinascita.it>
Hello all,
I've been reading
the Joan Baez memoir "And a VOice to Sing With."
Has anyone else
read it? It reminds me of other memoirs
of the women
Beats that I have
read (How I became Hettie JOnes, and Minor Characters),
and I was
wondering if anyone has read other books or articles linking
Baez to the Beat
movement.... say, like they (whoever they are) link Bob
Dylan to the Beat
movement. I've seen Bob in anthologies,
but not Joan...
Just
curious. Any thoughts?
JoAnne
jruvoli@orion.it.luc.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:20:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Number 23
On Wed, 29 May
1996 18:07:35 -0400 "W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@AOL.com>
wrote:
>
Incidentally, 23 is a prime number, its integers, 2 & 3, are considered to
> have
mystical significance in their own right, and they add up to
> five, also
> considered a
mystical number, and the base of our arithmetic system
> besides.
Last time I
checked our number system was base 10.
Neil
"I'm
literary, I take math to mortify myself."
J.P. Sartre
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:30:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Beat in Italy
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 30 May 1996 14:34:22 +0200
from
<tony.c@RINASCITA.IT>
I suggest that
you read On The Road to begin with. You
might also check
variousanthologies
and books translated by Nanda Pivano.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:26:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Joan Baez
You might want to
try posting this question to the rec.music.dylan
newsgroup. Baez
doesn't have one of her own, but this newsgroup is filled
with people who
have heard tons of duets at least. Baez would have know
Ginsberg since he
was hanging around Dylan from the mid-60's all the
way through to
the mid-70's. Ginsberg plays a wonderful part as "The
Father" in
Dylan's much maligned opus "Renaldo & Clara" in which Baez
plays a lousy
part as "The Woman in White". The judgement of Baez's
role does not
necessarily reflect poorly on her, but perhaps on Dylan's
use of her and
choice of footage including her.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:50:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat in Italy
A major photo
exhibition of Jack Keroauc and Lowell will be opening in
Milan in the next
couple of weeks. This should provide a good
introduction.
I'll have to find the details. By the way, the exhibit will
be in Lowell
during the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival.
Mark Hemenway
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:51:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Yossef Mendelssohn
<citizenx@MAIL.PHOENIX.NET>
Subject: Re:
Number 23
At 09:20 AM
5/30/96 -0400, you wrote:
>On Wed, 29
May 1996 18:07:35 -0400 "W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@AOL.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
Incidentally, 23 is a prime number, its integers, 2 & 3, are considered to
>> have
mystical significance in their own right, and they add up to
>>
five, also
>>
considered a mystical number, and the base of our arithmetic system
>> besides.
>
>Last time I
checked our number system was base 10.
>Neil
>
okay, okay. You
have a point there; our number system is base 10. But last
time I checked, I
had two hands with five fingers each. In
a way, five is
the base of our
number system.
-yossef
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:52:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: That magic number, 23
>Last time I
checked our number system was base 10.
>Neil
Okay, so math was
never my strong-point.
I guess I was
thinking that in the anthropological sense, people probably
started counting
their fingers, and there are five fingers on each hand (and
five toes on each
foot, leading one to wonder why we don't compute in Base
20).
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:51:47 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: Number 23 (Maybe its just a
coincidence, but... )
May it IS just a
coincidence, but...
On August 23:
The St.
Bartholomew's Massacre occured in 1572
Rudolph Valentino
died in 1926
Sacco and
Vanzetti were executed in 1927
The Nazi-Soviet
pact was signed in 1939; WWII started one week later
I was born in
1949
Yusef Hawkins was
killed in Brooklyn, 1989
George
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:31:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Dylan? A Beat?
Comments: To:
BEAT-L@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
Hi, all:
I'd like anyone
and everyone's opinion as to Bob's being considered a
Beat. I believe
Ann Charters has a couple of his poems (songs) in her
anthology. IMHO, I believe he should be considered a
Beat. I welcome any
response on this.
If one considers Bob, then I suppose Joan must also be
considered, but
with this consideration of both of them, politics plays a
hefty role.
Also, if you
haven't checked out Tim Leary's new web page, take the time
to do it, if
you're so inclined. He has expanded the
whole site, also
including
"chat rooms" where people go in and talk on-line. There is one
topic room devoted
only to Kerouac and the Beats. Browsers are encouraged
to open up their
own "topics", etc. Very interesting.
Chris
forza@concentric.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:38:55 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dylan? A Beat? (fwd)
Check out Dylan's
movie 'Renaldo & Clara' puts Dylan right on the beat map!
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:11:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Dylan? A Beat?
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 30 May 1996 18:31:43 -0400
from <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Dylan certainly
isn't a member of the Beat Generation as such.
He is
too young to be
part of the original group. But he was
strongly
influenced by the
Beats, particularly by Kerouac and Ginsberg.
He also
shares an
interest with those whoinfluenced Kerouac & Ginsberg -- like
Rimbaud and the
Surrealists. During the 1960s he shared
the same turf
with some of the
Beats -- the Village Coffee housesand cafes.
Dylan is
close to the
Beats for poetic reasons. Phil Ochs and
Joan Baez shared
political
concerns with Allen Ginsberg, particularly in terms of their
opposition to the
Vietnam War. I like to call Dylan and
those who were
influenced by the
Beats "New Beats."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:53:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Number 23
In-Reply-To:
<199605302051.PAA08206@mail.phoenix.net> from "Yossef
Mendelssohn" at May 30, 96
03:51:07 pm
> >>
have mystical significance in their own right, and they add up to
> >>
five, also
> >>
considered a mystical number, and the base of our arithmetic system
> >>
besides.
> >
> >Last
time I checked our number system was base 10.
> >Neil
> >
> okay, okay.
You have a point there; our number system is base 10. But last
> time I
checked, I had two hands with five fingers each. In a way, five is
> the base of
our number system.
>
> -yossef
>
e = 2.7182...
pi = 3.14....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:17:47 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Number 23
In-Reply-To:
<199605311453.KAA16976@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
Actually, five is
not the base of our number system. I
hate to be
pedantic, but the
number system is not based on five, but on ten, because
after the ninth
digit, we add another digit-place, and that's how you
determine what a
number system is based on - how many numbers it takes to
add another
digit. So our number system is not based
on five. If it
were, we'd count
like
1
2
3
4
11 -this equals five in base ten
12 -six
13 -seven, etc...
14
20
21
22
23
24
30
Eternally
Dreaming,
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
On Fri, 31 May
1996, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> >
>> have mystical significance in their own right, and they add up to
> >
>> five, also
> >
>> considered a mystical number, and the base of our arithmetic system
> >
>> besides.
> > >
> >
>Last time I checked our number system was base 10.
> >
>Neil
> > >
> > okay,
okay. You have a point there; our number system is base 10. But last
> > time I
checked, I had two hands with five fingers each. In a way, five is
> > the
base of our number system.
> >
> > -yossef
> >
>
> e =
2.7182...
> pi =
3.14....
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:59:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Tim Leary Passes away
Tim Leary died
today.
In his book
Flashbacks he describes his only bad trip (or at least his first
one or the only
one he would admit to) as being the one with Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:19:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Leary?
Tim died? His website said he was feeling fine and his
cancer seemed to
be in
remission...he was supposed to have a large cybercast of his death,
but his website
won't respond when I try to access it...what happened?
upset,
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 14:28:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Leary?
At 11:19 AM
5/31/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Tim
died? His website said he was feeling
fine and his cancer seemed to
>be in
remission...he was supposed to have a large cybercast of his death,
>but his
website won't respond when I try to access it...what happened?
>
> upset,
> jonathan
>
>=========================
>Jonathan
Kratter, Dreamer
My guess is the
website is very crowded after the news.
I heard the news
on KFI (a local LA station) driving in to work this morning.
The report said
he had friends and family by his side.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:49:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Cosmic!
Today, on May
31st, 1996, just after midnight, Timothy Leary passed
away. He was seventy five years old. He died in his bedroom surrounded
by close
friends. His last words were "why
not?" and "yeah."
Interesting, isn't it, that he died
just after midnight? Almsot
as if he was
hanging on until today. Well, I looked,
and, believe it or
not, May 31st is
Walt Whitman's birthday. Walt Whitman,
of course, is
whom both Jack
Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg (both friends of Leary)
referred to as
the "original beat"...cosmic, isn't it?
Eternally Dreaming,
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 15:46:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan? A Beat? (fwd)
I don't mean to
be disagreeable but I'm just a little tired of the "who is a
beat"
discussions -- Bukowski? Kesey? Dylan? Charlie Parker? Trochhi? Jerry
Garcia? Dylan?
Abbie Hoffman?
Tim Leary? Norman Mailer?
On one hand
purists insist that to be beat ment that one had to be present at
Columbia U on
such and such a date or Tangier, or San Francisco in 1956, or
somewhere else,
and partied or read/wrote with the "big three". Others
consider everyone
who ever read On The Road or meditated with AG a beat.
Some people take this discussion quite
seriously. I guess its interesting
to know when
Dylan read OTR or what he has said about the subject, of course
it is
interesting. What I don't find
interesting are the self-appointed
guardians of the
label "beat" who take delight in flaming anyone who
disagrees with
them.
Why can't it
suffice to say that these people (fill in the blank) were
greatly
influenced by the beats and can use the label if they want. The term
"beat"
is NOT copyrighted by the estate of Jack Kerouac or anyone else. It
belongs to
everybody who wants it - "Believe it if you need it, if you don't
just pass it
on" (Robert Hunter).
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:09:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Dylan? A Beat? (fwd)
At 03:46 PM
5/31/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I don't mean
to be disagreeable but I'm just a little tired of the "who is a
>beat"
discussions -- Bukowski? Kesey? Dylan? Charlie Parker? Trochhi? Jerry
>Garcia? Dylan?
>Abbie
Hoffman? Tim Leary? Norman Mailer?
>
>On one hand
purists insist that to be beat ment that one had to be present at
>Columbia U on
such and such a date or Tangier, or San Francisco in 1956, or
>somewhere
else, and partied or read/wrote with the "big three". Others
>consider
everyone who ever read On The Road or meditated with AG a beat.
> Some people
take this discussion quite seriously. I
guess its interesting
>to know when
Dylan read OTR or what he has said about the subject, of course
>it is
interesting. What I don't find
interesting are the self-appointed
>guardians of
the label "beat" who take delight in flaming anyone who
>disagrees
with them.
>
>Why can't it
suffice to say that these people (fill in the blank) were
>greatly
influenced by the beats and can use the label if they want. The term
>"beat"
is NOT copyrighted by the estate of Jack Kerouac or anyone else. It
>belongs to
everybody who wants it - "Believe it if you need it, if you don't
>just pass it
on" (Robert Hunter).
>
>Howard Park
>
>Jesus Christ
was definitely a beat. Nixon was definitely not a beat.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:12:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Howard Park on whose Beat
Thanks to Howard
Park for breath of fresh air open the windows & doors
comments on whose
BEAT! Fall '93 I asked Allen Ginsberg how he felt about Bob
Dylan which
prompted a long & fascinating response.
Ron Whitehead
RWhiteBone@aol.com
5/31/96 9:11PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:18:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: HE WAS A CROOK
One of the finest
pieces of writing in this fair land is Dr. Hunter S.
Thompson's HE WAS
A CROOK (Nixon Obituary. Did Published in Heaven Poster of
this piece with
Chris Felver photo of Hunter.) Thank sweet beat Jesus that
Nixon WAS finally
beat.
Ron Whitehead
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:46:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: I WILL NOT BOW DOWN, math, & #23
"I pledge allegiance to fractal geometry
the geometry of clouds and
coastlines
to 2x2 equalling 5
I pledge allegiance to Failure
to failing as no other dare fail
I pledge allegiance to taking risks
to holing daring" (from Ron
Whitehead's "I Will Not Bow Down")
Whitehead was
born 11-23-50, Thanksgiving Day, in the midst of the worst
blizzard to ever
hit Kentucky. He's had one dramatically "Rolloish"
successful
failure after another ever since. What is success? What is
failure?
3 Edgar Cayce
trained psychics & 7 astrologers including master Hindu-Vedic
Cayce astrologer
Ry Redd (TOWARDS A NEW ASTROLOGY) all concur that they've
never seen such a
powerful successful Jupiter as Whitehead's particularly
related to
international community of writers artists musicians. They all say
this success
should last thru 2016 at which time, aged 66, he will die.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:05:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: nappodd2
<nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: Beat or no?
The classification of writers into
their own groups and movements is
often making
something out of nothing. It can appear
arbitrary, as if the
all-mighty
custodians of the canon simply decided that undergraduate
literature
students needed more terminology to memorize:
the Jena circle,
the Grasmere
circle, the Symbolists, the Generacion del 1898, the Beats,
etc. More than arbitrary, it can seem forced. Why include William Blake,
for example,
among the BIG FIVE English Romantics (Wordsworth, Coleridge,
Keats, and
Byron)? The two who actually knew Blake
thought he was a nut.
On the other hand, I think in the case
of "the Beats" (for the sake
of argument let's
go with Charters' Portable Reader roll call) the question
of who is and who
is not SHOULD be asked--and not simply for the convenience
of anthology
editors. If similarities of style,
symbol and theme exist
between writers
of a particular time and they are grouped together by a
term, then the
determination of them as an important cultural and artistic
development is
easier to arrive at. Strength in
numbers. When you really
think about it,
aside from their (short-lived) association at Columbia,
tripping, and the
fact they slept with one another, what do the "core"
Beats--Ginsberg,
Kerouac, Burroughs--have in common at all?
Did Ginsberg
adopt the
"Spontaneous Prose" technique?
Did Kerouac share Ginsberg's
politics? How much poetry did Burroughs write? Why is Ginsberg
consistently
anthologized and the other two are not (Kerouac was dumped from
the 1984 Norton
edition)? While I believe they were an
important cultural
and artistic
development, I wonder how frequently the term "Beat" has been
kicked around for
commercial rather than literary considerations.
Asking
whether Dylan or
Bukowski was Beat is not a meaningless exercise of some
vague hegemony; I
think it is an invitation to read the Beats critically,
discover
similarities/differences, and make an even stronger case for their
value and
greatness.
In any case, I would think such a line
of inquiry would be more
interesting than
exhausting interpretations of the number 23 and arguing
whether or not
our number system is base 10.
Dan Nappo
"To act
without understanding and to do so habitually without examination,
following certain
courses all their lives without knowing the principles
behind them--this
is the way of the multitude."
--Mencius
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 09:40:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: Dylan? A Beat?
Check out
"Rolling Thunder Logbook" by Sam Shepherd and "On the Road with
Bob
Dylan" by
Larry Sloman. Many connections of Dylan
to the Beat Movement
including a
filmed segment, chronicled in both books and appearing in "Renaldo
and Clara,"
of Dylan, Shepherd and Ginsberg improvising blues and poetry at
Kerouac's grave.
Paul McDonald
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 21:08:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
Bobby Singh wrote
recently asking if there were any magazines on the Beats in
the USA. I edit
one, The Kerouac Connection, which has been around for 11
years. Finances
have been tough lately but a new issue is coming out soon.
Subscriptions are
$20 for 4 issues, to The Kerouac Connection, PO Box 462004,
Escondido, CA,
92046-2004. Foreign subscribers may pay by check in their
country's
equivalent of $20 US.
Mitchell Smith,
keroconnec@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 10:44:31 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Adam & Lin Hua-fang
<alaska@HK.SUPER.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
------
=_NextPart_000_01BB5070.854D1040
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Mitchell,
What sorts of
items are there in KC?
Gene Adam/Hong
Kong
----------
From: Mitchell Smith[SMTP:Kerolist@AOL.COM]
Sent: Sunday, 2 June 1996 9:08
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
Bobby Singh wrote
recently asking if there were any magazines on the Beats in
the USA. I edit
one, The Kerouac Connection, which has been around for 11
years. Finances
have been tough lately but a new issue is coming out soon.
Subscriptions are
$20 for 4 issues, to The Kerouac Connection, PO Box 462004,
Escondido, CA,
92046-2004. Foreign subscribers may pay by check in their
country's
equivalent of $20 US.
Mitchell Smith,
keroconnec@aol.com
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5070.854D1040
Content-Type:
application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
base64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------
=_NextPart_000_01BB5070.854D1040--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:32:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan? A Beat? (fwd)
Ok, yes - Nixon
was definately not a beat. Christ? -
probably. Whitman? -
definately.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 00:31:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Emily L. User."
<Queen79099@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lowell info, please
I am intrigued!
When and where is this Lowell festival?
Hopefully I can
attend... I'll be
in Lowell this summer.
Thanks so much,
Emily L. in Palo Alto, CA
Queen79099@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:23:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "P.G. Springer"
<hloosn8@PRAIRIENET.ORG>
Subject: Minneapolis Art Exhibit
In-Reply-To:
<1996May29.074401.1036.148733@jackrabbit.uwyo.edu>
Does anyone know
the dates that the Whitney's Beat show is supposed to be
in Minneapolis?
Gracias.
PGS
"To be great
is to be misunderstood." -- Emerson
"Self-knowledge
is always bad news." -- Barth
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:15:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Ron Whitehead and Ginsberg
> Thanks to
Howard Park for breath of fresh air open the windows & doors
> comments on
whose BEAT! Fall '93 I asked Allen Ginsberg how he felt
> about Bob
Dylan which prompted a long & fascinating response.
Dear Ron,
I don't know
about anyone else, but I'd love to hear whatever bits and
pieces of the
long and fascinating response you can reconstruct. You
might want to
cross-post it to rec.music.dylan as I know the people there
would be
interested as well. I do know that Ginsberg and Dylan saw each
other
occasionally up to the mid-80's, since the name of Dylan's '85 or
'86 album
"Empire Burlesque" arose from a conversation between the two.
For anyone
interested in the relationship between the two poetmen Stephen
Scobie, author of
_Alias: Bob Dylan_ is writing a book on the
Ginsberg\Dylan
connection.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:27:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Last Word on No. 23
As the originator
of the "Base 10" thread, I feel partially responsible
for what some
people think to have been a waste of time. I never intended
it to get beyond
the one post. I thought I was being clear that I was
being cheeky,
throwing off a silly little rejoinder when I included the
Sartre quotation
(which is from one of the short stories in his _The
Wall_) at the end
of my post. This was snipped off in every response but
here it is again:
"I'm
literary, I take Math to mortify myself."
J.P. Sartre
(Cheek, cheek)
I thought it was
funny, but then again I'm in the Math Faculty doing a
double major in
Computer Science and English Literature, so I guess I
find some odd
things funny...
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:02:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Douglas Dusseau
<ddusseau@IN.NET>
Subject: _Wisdom's Maw: The Acid Novel_ (FYI?)
Was sent this
over the weekend!! Any comments?
>Return-Path:
<fahey@popalex1.linknet.net>
>Date: Sat, 01
Jun 1996 16:44:54 -0700
>From: Far
Gone Books <fahey@popalex1.linknet.net>
>To:
ddusseau@in.net
>Subject:
_Wisdom's Maw: The Acid Novel_ (FYI?)
>X-Url:
http://www.in.net/~ddusseau/beat.html
>X-UIDL:
833824108.000
>
>News Release
-- For Immediate Distribution
>
>_Self-published
Novel on CIA/LSD Axis a Success via Internet_
>
>After five
years and 200+ rejection slips to show for his ontroversial
>manuscript _Wisdom's
Maw: The Acid Novel _, which revolves around the
>CIA's LSD
experiments of the 1950s and 60s, writer Todd Brendan Fahey
>had finally
had enough. "It was either pack it
in, forget I had ever
>written the
book, and go sell cars somewhere--or sell something I
>believed
in," Fahey said in a recent interview with _The Professional_,
>a tabloid
based in the Acadiana bayou region of Louisiana. That thing
>which he
believed in, more than anything else, was himself and his ability
>as a creative
mind.
>
>A Ph.D.
candidate in English at University of Southwestern Louisiana,
>Instructor of
Creative Writing through its Adult Education division, freelance
>journalist,
poet, and veteran psychedelic explorer (LSD-Ret.), Fahey did
>what many
writers, including James Redfield (_The Celestine Prophecy_), are
>doing today:
"Mortgage the farm, and hold your breath." Fahey borrowed $7,000
>from friends
and credit cards, hired a printer and professional designer for
>the book's
startling 4-color cover, set the type himself in Adobe PageMaker,
>and went to
work on a guerilla marketing campaign that would, he hoped, make
>_Wisdom's
Maw_ an underground cult hit.
>
>So far his
instincts have been right on the money.
A first-run of 2000 copies,
>in a quality
trade paperback edition, is well on its way to selling out. The
>full-color
posters he sent to every major counterculture magazine, and many
>"fringe"
'zines, have secured the promise of over a dozen reviews and feature
>articles. As well, catalogues and organizations such as
northern California's
>MindBooks and
The Island Group--both dedicated to keeping alive information on
>psychedelics--have
seen a way to make money from Fahey's endeavor; the
>reseller's
discount to catalogues and bookstores allow many to ride piggyback
>on Fahey's
tireless shoulders.
>
>On August 2,
the company he christened Far Gone Books will announce publication
>of _Wisdom's
Maw: The Acid Novel_. Expanding a host of psychedelic myths, among
>them the
legend of Ken Kesey and his band of Merry Pranksters, _Wisdom's Maw_
>asks this
bedrock, pregnant question:
>
> "What if the Sixties were the
result of a bizarre experiment in
> mind control and genetic manipulation
perpetrated by the CIA?
> What if outlaw heroes of the
counterculture like Jack Kerouac,
> Neal Cassady, and Timothy Leary were
paid government agents
> seeking to subvert the American
consciousness? What if the
> twisted path from Father Knows Best to
Woodstock was carved out
> by top-level G-Men bent on creating a
new world order... This is
> the raw material for Todd Brendan
Fahey's incendiary novel
> _Wisdom's Maw_..."
> (Back Cover blurb)
(Christopher Hunt in _Circuit Traces_)
>
>The CIA's
mind-control experiments, known collectively as Project MK-ULTRA,
have
>persisted
since their airing in 1973 in capturing the attention of the American
>public.
Recent segments of "Unsolved Mysteries," "48-Hours," and
"Eye-to-Eye
>with Connie
Chung," have been devoted to the subject, as have feature-length
>articles
earlier in this decade in _Newsweek_ and _U.S. News & World Report_.
>Two
nonfiction works emergent in the 1980s--_Acid Dreams_, Bruce Shlain and
>Martin Lee
(Grove 1985) and _Storming Heaven_, Jay Stevens (Harper 1987)--
>contributed
importantly to public understanding of the experiments, which U.S.
>Senator
Daniel Inouye termed "diabolical."
In _Wisdom's Maw_, Fahey has
>synthesized
available data on MK-ULTRA, toward his riveting thesis--that
>government
Intelligence deliberately and purposefully fomented the rebellion
>of the Beat
generation by use of its house "reprogramming" tool, LSD-25, thus
>"creating"
The Sixties, in order to contain and neutralize a burgeoning youth
>movement.
>
>Fictionalized
in _Wisdom's Maw_, among actual CIA doings:
>
> Operation Midnight Climax--a project
run in the 1950s by late
> FBI narcotics agent George Hunter
White, in cooperation with the
> CIA and the Army Chemical Corps,
wherein unsuspecting male bar
> patrons in New York and San Francisco
were given cocktails spiked
> with LSD, and thereafter taken by
prostitutes to designated hotel
> rooms, their sexual acts filmed by U.S.
intelligence agents from
> behind a two-way mirror.
>
> The Search for a so-called Manchurian
Candidate--a drug which
> would function in potential spies and
assassins as an hypnotic, a
> telepathine, and a truth serum. A drug known as BZ was to have
> served this purpose, but was never
widely used by government
> intelligence.
>
> The Death of Frank Olson--a top-level
Army biochemical warfare
> specialist who, in 1953, reportedly
jumped to his death from New
> York's Statler Hotel the day after
being unwittingly given LSD
> during a CIA symposium. Many have long
suspected murder in the
> case, which again made news in
late-1994, when sons of Dr. Olson
> pushed for the exhumation of and a
second autopsy on the remains.
> The results were considered by
forensics expert Dr. Kenneth Starr
> to be "suspicious, but
inconclusive."
>
>Acclaimed
author Ernest J. Gaines (_The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman_)
>attended the
writing workshops at Stanford University with Ken Kesey in
1959-60,
>the years in
which government Intelligence and youth rebellion were made twain
>at the
Veterans Hospital at Menlo Park, where Kesey was introduced to LSD
by the
>CIA's Dr. Leo
Hollister. Gaines writes of the era and
of _Wisdom's Maw_:
>
> "I am thinking about those
who think the mid-fifties to
> the mid-sixties were such glorious
days--`when things were
> happening, man.' I can see this being a cult book for such a
> crowd...
> I was at Stanford in the late
fifties, visited Perry Lane
> quite a few times, knew some of the
people there, but still I was
> not part of that crowd. I was a complete outsider. I stood back
> and watched. And I got the hell out when I thought things
were
> getting a little rough. Many of the people you mention in your
> book I saw from a distance. Some I met, got to know pretty well,
> but formed no close alliance. I was cut
of a different cloth.
> Still am. I have been around a lot of drugs, but never
once a
> user.
I never had to inhale, because I never put the damned
> thing in my mouth, my nostrils, or my
veins. I am sixty today,
> and still kicking. Many of those in your novel died much
> younger--or their talent most
definitely did. I was aware of
> that effect on the body when I was at
Stanford at age
> twenty-five. I knew I wanted to be around awhile, and
joining
> those crazies was good chance I would
not be. There were others
> in Wally's [Stegner] class who felt the
same way I did. To watch
> the show, then go home and work.
> I don't know what to say about
the CIA's involvement with
> all this drug stuff and with the
killing of a president. This is
> all too much for me to comprehend. You
have written a very
> controversial book here, and if it is
published and read, you may
> have to answer some questions to some
pretty big boys. I hope you
> have the backbone for it."
>
(Back Cover blurb)
>
>The
manuscript circulated widely among top New York houses from 1991 to 1995,
>drawing long
looks from Grove/Atlantic and St. Martin's Press, but was
considered
>by many to be
potentially libelous. Encouraged by
heavy response to his
site on
>the World
Wide Web, Fahey believes the book industry will soon do as the film
>industry has
been doing since the late-80s.
"Soderbergh's _sex lies &
videotape_
>showed that
Hollywood wasn't necessary. The Coen
brothers, as far as I'm
>concerned,
have driven the nail into the skull of big-budget B-movies. I hope
>_Wisdom's
Maw_ is said to have that kind of impact on the book industry."
>
>Having been
recently selected as Books-A-Million and Barnes & Noble titles, and
>with a
feature-length profile forthcoming in _National Lampoon_, _Wisdom's Maw_
>may be the
catalyst whose time has come.
>
> * * *
>[Ordering
Information]
>
>Official
release is slated for August 2, but a limited number of "advance
>copies"
has begun shipping. Price postpaid is
$18.50 within the United States
>(cover price
$16.95 + first-class postage). Far Gone
Books offers quantity
>discounts of
30% for 4-9 copies and 40% for 10 or more. (Please do not make
>out check or
money order on volume orders until appropriate freight cost has
>been
ascertained).
>
>[Book
specifications: 6x9 trade paperback; 224pp.; 60# acid-free (!) paper;
>Smyth-sewn
binding; glossy, 4-color cover; back-cover blurbs by Ernest J.
Gaines
>and
Christopher Hunt. ISBN 0-9651839-0-4]
>
>Checks/money
orders should be made to:
>
>Todd Brendan
Fahey
>[& sent
to:]
>Far Gone
Books
>P.O. Box
43745
>Lafayette, LA
70504-3745
>
>In
appreciation of those early discoverers of _Wisdom's Maw_, Professor Fahey
>will sign all
copies ordered through the Web.
>
>The _Wisdom's
Maw_ Web site may be accessed with a good browser at:
>http://www2.linknet.net/fahey/Wisdom
>
>Todd Brendan
Fahey can be contacted directly at: Fahey@popalex1.linknet.net
>
> ###
>
>
>
Douglas M Dusseau
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:16:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Yossef Mendelssohn
<citizenx@PHOENIX.NET>
Subject: Number 23
And, of course, there's Psalm 23 (King
James version):
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not
want.
He maketh me to lie down in green
psatures: he leadeth me beside the
still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadth me in
the paths of righteousness for
his name's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of death, I will
fear no evil: for
thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the
presence of mine enemies:
thou anointest my
head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow
me all the days of my life:
and I will dwell
in the house of the Lord for ever.
-yossef
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 22:35:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Lit Garage Sale
Hello all:
I suppose this
will make someone upset, but all I'm doing is clearing out
some space on my
bookshelf by getting rid of some duplicates of Beat lit I've
accumulated over
the years. I'm not a book dealer and
everything I list
should basicly be
considered a "reader" copy - most are in decent shape
though, but
virtually all have some wear. I think
the prices I list are much
lower than most
dealer catalogs I've seen or even in the bookstores. In the
interest of
conserving bandwidth PLEASE respond to me directly
(Hpark4@aol.com)
if you are interested in something DO NOT post to the whole
group.
EVERYTHING listed
is a paperback. Add $1.00 per for
postage
Jack Kerouac -
Dharma Bums, PB, late printing $4.00
- Maggie Cassidy, 3rd PB
printing - $7.00
- Mexico City Blues, 1990
- 1st Grove Weidenfeld PB
print - $8.00
Burroughs - Naked
Lunch - late PB printing $7.00
Seymour Krim
(editor) - The Beats, first PB printing, 1960, Gold Medal (its
in terrible
shape, but good for reading, all the pages are there and the
cover is decent)
- probably the best Beat anthology - $8.00
Ferlingetti -
Coney Island of the Mind - 20th printing $4.00
Brautigan - Trout
Fishing in America "1st Delta Printing", worn, $4.00
M. McClure - Star
Poems, Grove, 3rd printing - $4.00
- September Blackberries, New
Directions (not sure re:
printing) $5.00
Joyce Johnson -
Minor Characters (excellent memior by Kerouac girlfriend,
very well done!),
Washington Square Press, probably a late printing - $5.00
Gerald Nicosia -
Memory Babe, Penguin edition 1986, probably the definitive
biography of Jack
Kerouac - $8.00
Bruce Cook - The
Beat Generation: The Tumultious '50's Movement and its
Impact on Today,
written in 1971, reprinted by Quill in 1994, good general
survey, - $10.00
Bob Kaufman - The
Ancient Rain, Poems 1956-1978, New Directions, probably a
later printing -
$5.00
John Gruen - The
New Bohemia, 1967 Grosset Edition, (many underlines, old
water stains, but
very readible) "The amazing, sometimes shocking story of
the country's
erotic, pace-setting area - NY's East Village" - many great
pictures - $8.00
Dylan Thomas -
Quite Early One Morning, New Directions, 7th printing, $3.00
Jerry Rubin (a
clown, not a Beat) - Do It (interesting photos, 60's Classic?)
- $6.00
Evergreen Review
- This journal published more Beat lit than any other, many
short stories,
poems and book exerpts first appeared in Evergreen:#3 (1957,
Corso, Camus,
Snyder among others) Great photos featuring Jackson Pollock
very good
condition - $12.00
#5 (1958, I
believe this is the first printing of Kerouac's Essentials of
Spontanious
Prose, Morin: The Case of James Dean, Dean photos, also Creeley,
Whalen) somewhat
worn, but decent - $13.00
#22 (1962,
"Introduction to Naked Lunch The Soft Machine Novia Express" (no
punctuation in
title) listed as "work in progress" includes first appearence
of short Novia
Express except, also Corso) - $11.00
#23 (1962, Corso,
Bess "Henry Miller on Trial") - $6.00
#24 (1962,
Whalen, Ferlingetti, Julian Beck, H. Miller) - $6.00
#74 (1970, large
format, Kerouac "On the Road to Florida"/ w photos by Robert
Frank - I'm not
sure if this has been printed elsewhere - it probably has but
I don't know
where, David Amram "In Memory of Jack Kerouac, also Bukowski
"The Day We
talked about James Thurber) - $14.00
#81 (1970, large
format, great cover photo of Allen G and Peter Orlovsky ,
also Zappa,
Woodstock report) - $6.00
#96 (1973, small
PB format) - $4.00
New World Writing
#4, terrible shape (Vidal, Foote) $2.00
I'm sorry if
anyone is offended by me posting this, but it's not as if I'm
asking big $ for
anything.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 23:28:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Dylan? A Beat? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <960602123211_547618706@emout16.mail.aol.com>
Hmmm...what about
Siddhartha Gotama? Was he beat?
seems he could've
been, but I don't know enough to make a real definitive
stand on the
issue...Whitman, as Kerouac and Ginsberg said, was the
"original beat"
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:38:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rodney Lee Phillips
<philli31@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Lit Garage Sale
In-Reply-To:
<960603223549_209924311@emout14.mail.aol.com> from "Howard
Park"
at Jun 3, 96 10:35:50 pm
Howard--
Hell no, I'm not
offended by this listing of Beat texts for sale; in fact, I'd
like to see more
of this sort of thing on this list. Many
of us are students
/ scholars of
Beat Lit and these books can be hard to find at times. I'd
consider it a
service to the list to see some used books for sale from time to
time.
Best,
Rod Phillips
> > Hello all:
> > I
suppose this will make someone upset, but all I'm doing is clearing out
> some space
on my bookshelf by getting rid of some duplicates of Beat lit I've
> accumulated
over the years. I'm not a book dealer
and everything I list
> should
basicly be considered a "reader" copy - most are in decent shape
> though, but
virtually all have some wear. I think
the prices I list are much
> lower than
most dealer catalogs I've seen or even in the bookstores. In the
> interest of
conserving bandwidth PLEASE respond to me directly
>
(Hpark4@aol.com) if you are interested in something DO NOT post to the whole
> group.
>
> EVERYTHING
listed is a paperback. Add $1.00 per for
postage
>
> Jack Kerouac
- Dharma Bums, PB, late printing $4.00
> - Maggie Cassidy, 3rd PB printing
- $7.00
> - Mexico City Blues, 1990
- 1st Grove Weidenfeld PB
> print -
$8.00
>
> Burroughs -
Naked Lunch - late PB printing $7.00
>
> Seymour Krim
(editor) - The Beats, first PB printing, 1960, Gold Medal (its
> in terrible
shape, but good for reading, all the pages are there and the
> cover is
decent) - probably the best Beat anthology - $8.00
>
> Ferlingetti
- Coney Island of the Mind - 20th printing $4.00
>
> Brautigan -
Trout Fishing in America "1st Delta Printing", worn, $4.00
>
> M. McClure -
Star Poems, Grove, 3rd printing - $4.00
> - September Blackberries,
New Directions (not sure re:
> printing)
$5.00
>
> Joyce
Johnson - Minor Characters (excellent memior by Kerouac girlfriend,
> very well
done!), Washington Square Press, probably a late printing - $5.00
>
> Gerald
Nicosia - Memory Babe, Penguin edition 1986, probably the definitive
> biography of
Jack Kerouac - $8.00
>
> Bruce Cook -
The Beat Generation: The Tumultious '50's Movement and its
> Impact on
Today, written in 1971, reprinted by Quill in 1994, good general
> survey, -
$10.00
>
> Bob Kaufman
- The Ancient Rain, Poems 1956-1978, New Directions, probably a
> later
printing - $5.00
>
> John Gruen -
The New Bohemia, 1967 Grosset Edition, (many underlines, old
> water
stains, but very readible) "The amazing, sometimes shocking story of
> the
country's erotic, pace-setting area - NY's East Village" - many great
> pictures -
$8.00
>
> Dylan Thomas
- Quite Early One Morning, New Directions, 7th printing, $3.00
>
> Jerry Rubin
(a clown, not a Beat) - Do It (interesting photos, 60's Classic?)
> - $6.00
>
> Evergreen
Review - This journal published more Beat lit than any other, many
> short
stories, poems and book exerpts first appeared in Evergreen:#3 (1957,
> Corso,
Camus, Snyder among others) Great photos featuring Jackson Pollock
> very good
condition - $12.00
>
> #5 (1958, I
believe this is the first printing of Kerouac's Essentials of
> Spontanious
Prose, Morin: The Case of James Dean, Dean photos, also Creeley,
> Whalen)
somewhat worn, but decent - $13.00
>
> #22 (1962,
"Introduction to Naked Lunch The Soft Machine Novia Express" (no
> punctuation
in title) listed as "work in progress" includes first appearence
> of short
Novia Express except, also Corso) - $11.00
>
> #23 (1962,
Corso, Bess "Henry Miller on Trial") - $6.00
>
> #24 (1962,
Whalen, Ferlingetti, Julian Beck, H. Miller) - $6.00
>
> #74 (1970, large
format, Kerouac "On the Road to Florida"/ w photos by Robert
> Frank - I'm
not sure if this has been printed elsewhere - it probably has but
> I don't know
where, David Amram "In Memory of Jack Kerouac, also Bukowski
> "The
Day We talked about James Thurber) - $14.00
>
> #81 (1970,
large format, great cover photo of Allen G and Peter Orlovsky ,
> also Zappa,
Woodstock report) - $6.00
>
> #96 (1973,
small PB format) - $4.00
>
> New World
Writing #4, terrible shape (Vidal, Foote) $2.00
>
> I'm sorry if
anyone is offended by me posting this, but it's not as if I'm
> asking big $
for anything.
>
> Howard Park
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:44:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Lit Garage Sale
Howard,
ditto.
I'd like to see
more lists. If anyone has a good long
list of semi-quality
stuff, send it.
Spread the word!!
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:05:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: the 1st Beats
Who were the very
first Beats. Beats are victims but victims who are often
complicit in
their victimization since they refuse to submit to bow down to
the status quo to
whatever authority demands their allegiance & respect.
Their implicit
and/or explicit defiance brings persecution. To survive the
pain the torment
Beats must become strong victims in order to endure the
struggle of
living in an oppressive environment. Many Beats, strong victims,
become warrior
poets, writers, artists, musicians, rebel Druidhs, mystics,
Nabi who, by
dwelling in the shadow, in the holy unholy realms of the
creative
imagination, sublimate suffering, via passion & compassion, into
wisdom, knowledge
& understanding which can point a way, for those who wish
to see to hear,
out to alternative new worlds.
This wisdom is
born out of necessity & desire.
Brain Man, from ON A MISSION TO PROCURE
MOLASSES FOR THE U.S. ARMY
As time passes,
it is likely that more and more mental phenomena of
extraordinary
nature will appear in the most sensitive people; as a matter of
fact, there are
no limits to the possible variety of these phenomena. On the
other hand, it
may not be a case of new phenomena, only that one becomes more
sensitive to
them. Knut Hamsun
In the
Deconstructing faux corridors of Postmodernism (& Academia), with
faint sound of
hysterical laughter in the distance, The Dead somberly splash
in their shallow
sewers devouring and regurgitating themselves.
The Bone
Man
Imagine Modernism
as The Dark Ages and Postmodernism as our present Middle
Ages. Now imagine
The Ocean of Consciousness as The Renaissance.
The Bone
Man
abbreviated
conversation between Allen Ginsberg and Ron Whitehead on subject
of Bob Dylan
(Louisville, Kentucky October 2nd, 1992) to come later.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:23:43 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Minneapolis Art Exhibit
The Whitney
Exhibit will be at the Walker Art Museum in Minneapolis from 2
June through
September 15.
Mark Hemenway
Dharma beat
Magazine
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:07:20 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: advertising and selling
I don't find
advertising Beat realted book titles offensive in any way.
As listowner,
however, I do have to worry about such activity setting a
precedent. Beat-l is supported on university owned facilities for
non-profit,
educational purposes. I can see
university computer center
officials
objecting to advertising and sales activity.
One compromise
might be to list
titles that are available, I guess, and let the buyers
and sellers talk
about prices on a one-to-one basis.
Better yet, just
announce that
materials are available for sale and that more information
can be obtained
by contacting you at your e-mail address.
I'm all in
favor of bringing
people and good books together and hope the policy I'm
suggesting
doesn't put too much of a damper on things.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:36:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: can you forward this to the list for
me???
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: Sara.Ellefson@infores.com (Sara Ellefson)
To: Hpark4@aol.com
Date: 96-06-03
11:40:35 EDT
I've been trying to post a question to the
list (coincidentally about
Bob Dylan, which, as I now see, has been a
topic of conversation over
the weekend). I've been unable to post for a while and
would
appreciate the favor.
I found a nice copy of Tarantula by Bob
Dylan last week and have been
reading it, or trying to read it.
Here is what I was going to post:
I just got a copy of Tarantula by Bob
Dylan and I was wondering if
anyone else on the list has read this
book. I am having a hard time
understanding what it is about and I was
hoping someone could point me
in the right direction.
I've given up all hope of comprehension
with my first reading of it,
but I am captivated by the melody of the
words (melody isn't the
correct word, but it does express what I
want to say). The only
previous exposure I've had to Tarantula is
from the Beat Reader, which
has
a very brief excerpt.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:36:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Minneapolis Art Exhibit
Beat Culture and
the New America Walker Art Center - June 2 - September 15.,
catch it if you
can!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:36:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the 1st Beats
Re: Ron's
comments (I have not figured how to cut & paste) How 'bout
distilling that
as beat = subversive victim?
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:00:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: BOB DYLAN AND TARANTULA
In response to a
question a reporter asked about "Tarantula" (asked sometime
during the
sixties) Dylan replied that it was a "...book of words." I read it
years ago and
should probably give it another read. I
usually chalk it up to
one of many Dylan
tangents, like the time he tried to convince his manager to
have his album
"Before the Flood" a TV/Mail Order LP, in the tradition of Slim
Whitman and
Boxcar Willie, or the time he told the contractor building his
house in Malibu
to make the living room large enough for him to ride through
on his horse.
Paul
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:30:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: advertising and selling
Those seem to be
very reasonable guidelines proposed by our listserve
manager, and what
a fine listserve it is. If I ever post
anything in the
future it will be
just a notice that I have some extra material and perhaps
mention a few
titles. Sounds very
commonsenseical. Hope I did'nt cause too
much
trouble. There sure is a lot of
interest.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:26:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Christina Weber
<SoMinerva@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: BOB DYLAN AND TARANTULA
>In response
to a question a reporter asked about "Tarantula" (asked sometime
>during the
sixties) Dylan replied that it was a "...book of words." I
>read it
>years ago and
should probably give it another read. I
usually chalk it up
to
>one of many
Dylan tangents, like the time he tried to convince his manager
to
>have his
album "Before the Flood" a TV/Mail Order LP, in the tradition of
>Slim
>Whitman and
Boxcar Willie, or the time he told the contractor building his
>house in
Malibu to make the living room large enough for him to ride through
>on his horse.
>
>Paul
>Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
I just finished
reading it and it's a wonderful book, if you love words
and wordplay it is a great trip into where a lot of his
lyrics came
from.... I liked it.
But then, I am rather partial to Dylan.... His
tangents are what
is so great about him....
Christina
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:16:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: advertising and selling
Beat Books For
Sale? -
We've got
thousands of titles in stock as well as recordings, posters,
TShirts, etc. Old
books/new books/cheap books/very expensive
books/Kerouac/Burroughs/Ginsberg/Corso/di
Prima/
Bukowski/Huncke/Signed/Unsigned/Anthologies/Beat
Readers/
Beat
Sounds/etc/etc.
To receive our
latest list of books for sale, catalogues, etc.
send your name and
address. We can't possibly catalogue every
book in stock, so
if you have a want list, send it along for
quick, courteous
service.
Celebrating our
15th year in business -
Water Row Books
PO Box 438
Sudbury MA 01776
tel 508-485-8515
fax 508-229-0885
EMail
Waterrow@al.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:00:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Lowell info, please
At 12:31 AM
6/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I am
intrigued! When and where is this Lowell festival? Hopefully I can
>attend...
I'll be in Lowell this summer.
> Thanks so much,
> Emily L. in Palo Alto, CA
> Queen79099@aol.com
>
>Join us in
Jack Kerouac's hometown, during the season he loved best...
The 9th
Annual Lowell Celebrates KEROUAC! Festival
3-6 October
1996 LOWELL, MA
"I was going
home in October. Everybody goes home in October." On the Road
Millions of
people around the world have read and experienced Jack Kerouac's
books. Come share
that experience in his hometown at the 9th Annual Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival.
Each October,
Lowell, Massachusetts hosts Kerouac enthusiasts from around
the world for a
weekend of poetry, performance, companionship and ....Kerouac.
WALK DR SAX
STREETS WITH JACK KEROUAC....
Dr. Sax, Visions of Gerard, Maggie Cassidy,
Vanity of Duluoz, The Town and
The City- The
Lowell Jack Kerouac wrote about is still very much present.
The houses he
lived in, the sites he wrote about, the streets he walked are
here. The Grotto,
the Merrimack River, Moody Street Bridge, Textile Lunch,
the Pollard
Library... Strike out on your own with your favorite Lowell
novel as a guide
- or join one of many guided tours.
ENJOY A
PERFORMANCE BY YOUR FAVORITE BEAT MUSICIAN OR POET...
Patti Smith, Allen Ginsberg, Michael McClure,
Ray Manzarek, David Amram.
Gregory Corso and
Herbert Huncke have performed at the festival.
LEARN ABOUT JACK
KEROUAC AND THE BEATS ...
Attend a
symposium...pick up a book at the small press book fair... or just
listen in on the
conversations around you. Experience the rich cultural
heritage at the
source of Kerouac's genius. Leading Kerouac and beat
scholars from
around the country attend the festival.
SHARE THE BEAT
EXPERIENCE...
Read your own
work at an open microphone... visit the Kerouac Commemorative
at midnight... or
just hang out at one of the late night get- togethers.
Spend a few days
with people who share the enthusiasm, joyous spirit and
energy of Jack
Kerouac.
THE KEROUAC
COMMEMORATIVE
The Jack Kerouac
Commemorative is located in downtown Lowell at the
intersection of
Bridge and French Streets, near the former site of his
father's print
shop. Selected Kerouac passages, etched in eight red granite
pillars, stand as
a living monument to his art. The opening passages from
his five
"Lowell novels," as well as passages from On the Road. Lonesome
Traveler, Book of
Dreams and Mexico City Blues are inscribed on eight
triangular marble
columns. The arrangement of the columns and the surface
stones form a
kind of Buddhist-Christian mandala. The symmetrical cross and
diamond pattern
of The Commemorative is a meditation on
the complex
Buddhist and
Roman Catholic foundations of much of Jack's writing.
THE JACK KEROUAC
LITERARY PRIZE
Emerging and
established writers are invited to submit works of fiction,
non-fiction or
poetry for the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. The winner will
receive a $500
honorarium and an invitation to present the winning
manuscript at the
October Festival. The Prize is sponsored by Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc, The Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac, Middlesex
Community College
and the University of Massachusetts-Lowell. For
guidelines, send
a SASE to The Jack Kerouac Literary Prize, P.O. Box 8788,
Lowell, MA 01853.
LOWELL CELEBRATES
KEROUAC!, INC
The Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival is produced by Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc., a non-profit corporation. Created to build the
Jack Kerouac
Commemorative, Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. is dedicated to
promoting the
study and enjoyment of Jack Kerouac's art through the festival
and other
projects.
Festival planning
is a year round process, and we need your help. Join us at
our meetings,
7:00 PM, on the third Thursday of every month, on the second
floor of the
Pollard Memorial Library, 401 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA.
For more information, call 508-458-1721
or email: Mark Hemenway at
mhemenway@igc.apc.org. or Phil Chaput at philzi@tiac.net
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc. is an independent, volunteer organization
and we depend on
your support to produce the festival. Send your
contributions to:
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc.
P.O. Box 1111
Lowell, MA 01853.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:38:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: TEST - DO NOT READ
test
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 22:04:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Kerouac, Love and Death
Hello:
I'm struck by the
frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his
relations with
women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after
leaving a women
and her child after working with her picking fruit in
California, he
refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river. Is it just my
imagination, or
did Kerouac frequently connect his attraction to women with
thoughts of
death? Could this be related to his Catholicism? Fitzgerald,
also a Catholic,
seems to have made the same connection, to a lesser
extent.
George Morrone
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:47:07 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re:
BOB DYLAN AND TARANTULA
>>In
response to a question a reporter asked about "Tarantula" (asked
sometime
>>during
the sixties) Dylan replied that it was a "...book of words." I
>>read it
>>years ago
and should probably give it another read.
I usually chalk it up
to
>>one of
many Dylan tangents, like the time he tried to convince his manager
to
>>have his
album "Before the Flood" a TV/Mail Order LP, in the tradition of
>>Slim
>>Whitman
and Boxcar Willie, or the time he told the contractor building his
>>house in
Malibu to make the living room large enough for him to ride through
>>on his
horse.
>Paul
>Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
>I just
finished reading it and it's a wonderful book, if you love words
>and
wordplay it is a great trip into where a
lot of his lyrics came
>from.... I liked it.
But then, I am rather partial to Dylan.... His
>tangents are
what is so great about him....
>Christina
Somewhere I read
that TARANTULA was influenced by the writings of
William S. Burroughs.
I haven't read TARANTULA as a whole yet, just
an excerpt of 5-6
pages in an anthology, and I'm wondering if there's anybody
who would connect
TARANTULA and Burroughs' writing, too. Reasons for that ?
Jens
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 03:07:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Love & Death
George writes:
>I'm struck by
the frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his
>relations
with women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after
>leaving a
women and her child after working with her picking fruit in
>California,
he refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river.
Could you point
out other examples? This in itself doesn't specifically show
a connection
between women and death.
"Mournful" is a word used to convey
sorrow, and
sorrow can be felt over any loss, not just death. Paradise just
left a woman that
he loved - of course he felt grief and sorrow. Kerouac
would hardly be
the first (or last) person to draw a parallel between the
grief felt when
suffering the loss of a romantic relationship and the grief
felt over the
death of a loved one.
-Liz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 03:07:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg's Birthday
Happy Belated
70th Birthday, AG.
(I assumed
there'd be a dozen postings about this on Monday, but his birthday
seemed to roll
right by without us acknowledging it!)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:14:23 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Birthday
>Happy Belated
70th Birthday, AG.
>(I assumed
there'd be a dozen postings about this on Monday, but his birthday
>seemed to
roll right by without us acknowledging it!)
Yeah, that was
sad. I didn't dare to mention it, because I thought,
that this list is
only for scholarly discussions about AG and all
the others. :-)
By the way: I'm
German so I don't know the word "belated". Is it a
typing error, or
what ?
Jens Moellenhoff
Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
University of Munich,
Germany
*** Language is a
Virus from Outer Space ***
*** William S. Burroughs ***
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:15:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JLowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: ALLEN GINSBERG Autographed Books
available--
Good Morning,
all--
I've got the
following signed Allen Ginsberg books I would like to sell.
I have at hand a
good collection of Beat Generation & Black Mountain material
from which these
titles are culled.
I don't want to
brutally flog the list in violation of the "non-profit" nature
of the server
<g> so anyone wishing prices could flash me email at
Hdnfalls@pond.com
Thanks--
1) Mind Breaths.
City Lights, 1977. 1st edition in wrps. FN--Signed/inscribed
"AH" .
2) Planet News.
City Lights. 1974 (3rd print) wrps. FN--Signed.
3) The Fall of
America. City Lights, 1972 (black cover issue) wrps.
FN--Signed.
4) Empty Mirror.
Corinth, 1970 (2nd print) wrps. FN--Signed .
5) The Gates of
Wrath. Grey Fox, 1972 (2nd print) wrps. FN--Signed.
6) (w/William
Burroughs) The Yage Letters. City Lights, 1975 (2nd print) wrps.
FN--Signed by
Ginsberg.
7) Jane Kramer)
Allen Ginsberg in America. Vintage, 1970.
1st print in wrps.
FN--Signed by
Ginsberg.
Thanks--
Mark Lowe
Hdnfalls@pond.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:46:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Happy Birthday Gemini
Yes Happy
Birthday to Allen Ginsberg & Bob Dylan & Robert Creeley & my mom
&
my daughter &
all the other Beautiful Mischievous Subversive Hardheaded
Determined
Geminis round the world!
Ron Whitehead
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:09:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: nappodd2
<nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: love and death
>I'm struck by
the frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his
>relations
with women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after
>leaving a
women and her child after working with her picking fruit in
>California,
he refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river. Is it just my
>imagination,
or did Kerouac frequently connect his attraction to women with
>thoughts of
death? Could this be related to his Catholicism? Fitzgerald,
>also a
Catholic, seems to have made the same connection, to a lesser
>extent.
I don't think it's just your
imagination. Perhaps this tendency to
go immediately
from thoughts of love to thoughts of death with women is more
than a topos as
old as literature itself, but reflects Kerouac's consistent
dedication to the
only one he ever loved w/o reservation--his mother. I
don't know if it
could also be related to Catholicism; however, I know
Hemingway (not
Fitzgerald) once said, "Every time you make love with a woman
you die a little
bit."
After reading this comment, I
immediately referred to the end of The
Subterraneans
where Mardou dumps him. I couldn't find
any clear evidence of
thoughts of
death, though. If anything, the break-up
of the relationship
spurred him into
tha activity writing the book ("And write this book.").
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:54:06 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Glover, Albert"
<AGLO@MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: love and death
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 05 Jun 1996
10:09:27 EDT
For something explicit you might check out
section 68 of
Desolation Angels (part of the burlesque
scene) which ends:
And Sarina will die--
And I will die, and you will die, and
we all will die,
and even the stars will fade out one after
another in time.
One old strategy for defeating death -- no
birth!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:46:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
The Kerouac
Connection publishes essays on the Beats as well as poetry, book
and record
reviews, historical information, news of current events, etc.
Last issue had
critical essays from the NYU conference on Gregory Corso,
Allen Ginsberg,
and Jack Kerouac as well as a Bukowski memorial section and
poetry by
Lawrence Ferlinghetti and Harold Norse.
Subscriptions are
$20 for 4 issues (foreign orders may send personal checks
in your nation's
equivalent of $20--no cash please).
Single issues can be
obtained for
$5. If you wish to order both issues on
the NYU Conference (#27
& 28), you
can prepay $9 for both (or indicate that you want a 4 issue
subscription for
$19). Checks made payable to The Kerouac Connection. The
magazine address
is:
The Kerouac
Connection
PO Box 462004
Escondido, CA
92046-2004
I hope to hear
from you in the near future, and thank you for your interest.
Mitchell Smith,
Editor
The Kerouac
Connection
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:04:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re:
love and death
> I don't think it's just your
imagination. Perhaps this tendency to
>go
immediately from thoughts of love to thoughts of death with women is more
>than a topos
as old as literature itself, but reflects Kerouac's consistent
>dedication to
the only one he ever loved w/o reservation--his mother. I
>don't know if
it could also be related to Catholicism; however, I know
>Hemingway
(not Fitzgerald) once said, "Every time you make love with a woman
>you die a
little bit."
> After reading this comment, I
immediately referred to the end of The
>Subterraneans
where Mardou dumps him. I couldn't find
any clear evidence of
>thoughts of
death, though. If anything, the break-up
of the relationship
>spurred him
into tha activity writing the book ("And write this book.").
>
>If what
Hemingway said (above) was true Neal Cassady would have been dead
by 25. I'm sure
your right that he loved his mother w/o reservation but
don't you think
he truly loved Carolyn C. and did, if I must use the term
"learn to
love" Stella. He also said he immediately fell in love with Edie
Parker after he
watched her eat what was it like five sourkrout hotdogs.(YUM
I'm getting
hungry).What a bizarre attraction. By the way off the topic I
heard Paul
Krassner (publisher of The Realist) has a new book out. Anyone
picked it up yet?
Reviews? Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:08:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: nappodd2
<nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: true love/sauerkraut
>If what
Hemingway said (above) was true Neal Cassady would have been dead
>by 25. I'm
sure your right that he loved his mother w/o reservation but
>don't you
think he truly loved Carolyn C. and did, if I must use the term
>"learn
to love" Stella. He also said he immediately fell in love with Edie
>Parker after
he watched her eat what was it like five sourkrout hotdogs.
Sauerkraut dogs
do sound good right now. Yeah, I'm sure
Kerouac really did
love Carolyn and
Stella (I feel uncomfortable speculating on such a thing).
On the other
hand, whenever he had a fight with them, or broke off a
relationship with
anyone else, he went right back home to Memere.
All I
know (or think I
know) about Kerouac is through his books and the main bios
(Nicosia, Clark,
Charters). While his novels do not reveal it much, all the
bios portray him
as a man inordinately attached to his mother.
Especially
Charters.
Cassady died trudging along some
railroad tracks in Mexic--and he
was only 42. Maybe there is something to Hemingway's
remark...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:56:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
I was just browsing through the Dennis
McNally Beat/Kerouac bio, DESOLATE
ANGEL and came
across some interesting comments on John Clellon Holmes...
McNally seems to
suggest that Holmes' various articles on The Beat Generation
were basically an
outsider looking in - that Holmes wasn't really a core member
of Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Burroughs, et al. And then I
was thumbing through Holmes'
book NOTHING MORE
TO DECLARE and he almost seems to say as much... because he
had a family and
all that, he couldn't go around the country like Kerouac and
Cassady... so, is
Holmes really a Beat? or is McNally's book just reeking of
elitism....?
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:46:12 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Love & Death
>Reply to Liz
Prato:
>
>>I'm
struck by the frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his
>>relations
with women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after
>>leaving a
women and her child after working with her picking fruit in
>>California,
he refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river.
>
>Could you
point out other examples?
It's a general
impression I got from his writings; the first example I came
across (almost at
random, looking for something to quote for you) was in
"The Dharma
Bums," on page 28:
... couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Japhy
and Alvah taking their
clothes off and
throwing them every whichaway and I looked and Princess was
stark naked...
"Here's what yabyum is, Smith" said Japhy ... "Take your
clothes off and
join in, Smith!" ... I'd gone through an entire year of
celibacy based on
my feeling that lust was the direct cause of birth which
was the direct
cause of suffering and death... "Pretty girls make graves"
was my saying ...
Well, excuse me,
under the circumstances that's NOT what I'd say; even if I
didn't want to
participate.
>(The
"mournful Susquehana" quote: gm)
in itself doesn't specifically show
>a connection
between women and death.
"Mournful" is a word used to convey
>sorrow, and
sorrow can be felt over any loss, not just death. Paradise just
>left a woman
that he loved - of course he felt grief and sorrow. Kerouac
>would hardly
be the first (or last) person to draw a parallel between the
>grief felt
when suffering the loss of a romantic relationship and the grief
>felt over the
death of a loved one.
In context, the
connection seems pretty strong: I live in Harrisburg and
it's not a
"cursed" city; just not very exciting apart from the occasional
nuclear mishap.
OTR p. 103:
It was the night
of the Ghost of the Susquehanna. ... We walked seven miles
along the
mournful Susquehana. It is a terrifying river. It has bushy
cliffs on both
sides that lean like hairy ghosts over the unknown waters.
Sometimes from
the railyards across the river rises a great red locomotive
flare that
illuminates the horrid cliffs. ... comes
the day of the
Laodiceans, when
you know you are know you are wretched and miserable and
poor and blind
and naked, and with the visage of a gruesome grieving ghost
you go shuddering
through nightmare life.
I live two blocks
from the river, and trust me, it's not mournful, or
terrifying; the
ridges of the Appalachian mountains don't look like hairy
ghosts and are
not horrid. I'm reminded of an Italian movie, "The Meadow,"
where the field
changes from paradisical when the hero is in love to
infernal when
he's not, but its the same meadow all along.
Did Kerouac feel
that he had abandoned Terry and her son, and does that
account for the
extravagant language? Was he likely to get drunk as a
result, to dull
the pain? This is only way I can understand his choice of
words in the
preceding quote. Maybe by "pretty girls make graves" he meant
they were a
temptation to sin and thus spiritual death. In James Joyce's
"Portrait of
the Artist as a Young Man," Stephen Dedalus' struggles with
his sexuality as
he attempts to remain a good Catholic. There, the
connection
between lust and spiritual death is made pretty explicit by the
priest who
recounts for young Dedalus and his classmates the horrors of
hell while on a
retreat.
George
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:55:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac, Love & Death
At 08:46 PM
6/5/96 -0600, you wrote:
>>Reply to
Liz Prato:
>>
>>>I'm
struck by the frequency in Kerouac's work of a connection between his
>>>relations
with women and thoughts of death. For example, in OTR, after
>>>leaving
a women and her child after working with her picking fruit in
>>>California,
he refers to the "mournful" Susquehana river.
>>
>>Could you
point out other examples?
>
>On The
Road p.103:
>
>It was the
night of the Ghost of the Susquehanna. ... We walked seven miles
>along the
mournful Susquehana. It is a terrifying river. It has bushy
>cliffs on
both sides that lean like hairy ghosts over the unknown waters.
>Sometimes
from the railyards across the river rises a great red locomotive
>flare that
illuminates the horrid cliffs. ... comes
the day of the
>Laodiceans,
when you know you are know you are wretched and miserable and
>poor and
blind and naked, and with the visage of a gruesome grieving ghost
>>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<
This has Doctor Sax all over
it...terrifying river...like hairy
ghosts over
unknown waters...the river rises like a great red
locomotive...wretched
and miserable and poor and blind and naked, and with
the visage of a
gruesome grieving ghost you go shuddering through nightmare
life.
I feel it's his childhood.Lowell.
Doctor Sax lurking about. The
Merrimack again .
The rage of the river as when the big Lowell flood wiped
out his father's
print shop and more. The thoughts of that scary raging
river taking
away. Taking away (loss or death) seems to bring him back. He
leaves this women
and her child and then he goes back "You go shuddering
through nightmare
life..." Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 06:56:38 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@INTERBIT.CREN.NET
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 05 Jun 1996
18:56:04 EDT
I've always felt
that the elitism was JCH's. Perhaps he saw himself, or
self-appointed
himself, as the group's chronicler. He certainly didn't
seem to spend
much time in the city, though.
I am drawing a
blank as far as how he first got associated with Jack and
AG... though the
story is told in one of his books.
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:40:08 GMT2
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Marais van den Berg
<MARAIS@ENGL.UOVS.AC.ZA>
Organization:
University of the Orange Free State
Subject: Re: ALLEN GINSBERG Autographed Books
available--
How much for the
"Yage Letters" Have you any
idea what mail to South
Africa
costs? I would really like to have this
book. Let me know
please
Marais van den
Berg
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:30:52 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:56:04 EST from
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
No question,
Holmes is an important member of the Beat Generation. He
was part of the
original New York group in and around Columbia in the
1940s. In fact, his essays in The New York Times
Magazine (excerpted in
the 100th
anniversary issue) and Esquire helped to define the
generation. His roman a clef, Go, was the first published
work to give
voice the group,
unless you credit the later chapeters of K's T&C.
Holmes NYC
apartment was, for a brief period, a meeting place for
Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Alan Harrington and others.
But Holmes didn't remain
at the center
very long -- moving to Old Saybrook after his marriage to
Shirley. Hewasn't traveling around the country with
Neal and Allen and
Jack. He didn't really participate in the San
Francisco Renaissance
that brought
increased media attention to the Beats.
Then again,
neither did
Burroughs. Holmes and Kerouac remained
friends until the
end of Jack's
life as evidenced in their correspondence.
Holmes was a
pall bearer at
K's funeral. In his teaching at
Arkansas, in the writing
he did until the
end of his life, and in the generous support he gave
Beat scholars,
Holmes helped keep the Beat flame alive throught the
1970s and 1980s.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:58:44 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
J.D. P. Lafrance
wrote:
>
> I was just browsing through the Dennis
McNally Beat/Kerouac bio, DESOLATE
> ANGEL and
came across some interesting comments on John Clellon Holmes...
> McNally
seems to suggest that Holmes' various articles on The Beat Generation
> were
basically an outsider looking in - that Holmes wasn't really a core
member
> of Kerouac,
Ginsberg, Burroughs, et al. And then I
was thumbing through
Holmes'
> book NOTHING
MORE TO DECLARE and he almost seems to say as much... because he
> had a family
and all that, he couldn't go around the country like Kerouac and
> Cassady...
so, is Holmes really a Beat? or is McNally's book just reeking of
> elitism....?
>
> bfn,
> JDL
In an interview
during the movie "What Happened to Kerouac?" J.C.Holmes
describes
himself as a kind
of "migraine-headache intellectual". I consider his novel
"Go"
to be
"virtually
canonical" within the world of Beat lit. It's not a perfect, but it's
fun,
and the whole
gang (mostly) is there. Holmes' descriptions and fictionalized
dialogue
of Neal Cassady
(and Jack and Allen) fit squarely into Beat Myth.
Is he really a
Beat? This question keeps coming up in regards to various artists
-
rather than
complain about it I'll just play along. My vote is an unqualified
YES, WHY
NOT?. My reason
is that I consider the term BEAT to be quite large. "(It)
contains
multitudes..."
(WW).
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:14:10 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
Here's an odd bit
of trivia regarding J.C.Holmes:
After
"Go" was finished, Allen Ginsberg, whose character is perhaps the
most prominent
character in the book, apart from the narrator, wrote in
a letter to Neal
Cassady that Holmes' new book was "no good". Ginsberg
made this
judgment after reading the book in manuscript.
Allen was a bit
harsh, I would say, especially considering Holmes
sometimes refered
to "Go" as his "book about Allen".
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:00:19 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
I recommend his
book "Nothing to Declare". It's a collection of character
sketches of the
memebers of the beat scene, famous and otherwise. It has a
fabulous ring of
authenticity and truth to it.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 11:33:02 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
John W. Hasbrouck
writes:
In an interview
during the movie "What Happened to Kerouac?" J.C.Holmes
describes himself
as a kind of "migraine-headache intellectual". I consider his
novel
"Go" to be "virtually canonical" within the world of Beat
lit. It's not a
perfect, but it's
fun, and the whole gang (mostly) is there. Holmes'
descriptions and
fictionalized dialogue of Neal Cassady (and Jack and Allen) fit
squarely into
Beat Myth.
Is he really a
Beat? This question keeps coming up in regards to various artists
- rather than
complain about it I'll just play along. My vote is an unqualified
YES, WHY NOT?. My
reason is that I consider the term BEAT to be quite large.
"(It)
contains multitudes..." (WW).
I'm not doubting
or complaining whether Holmes was a Beat or not (whatever the
nebulous term
implies) I think the fact that he and Kerouac originated the term
is evidence
enough... but I find it interesting that he really fell out of the
group just as it
was getting momentum and after they migrated to San
Francisco... as
it has been said before, this is probably due in part to the
fact that Holmes
was now a family man and all but I wonder if he really felt a
part of the wild
scene that Kerouac, Ginsberg, et al. belonged to?
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 11:28:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: John Clellon Holmes - Hip or Square?
John W. Hasbrouck
writes:
Here's an odd bit
of trivia regarding J.C.Holmes:
After
"Go" was finished, Allen Ginsberg, whose character is perhaps the
most prominent
character in the book, apart from the narrator, wrote in
a letter to Neal
Cassady that Holmes' new book was "no good". Ginsberg
made this
judgment after reading the book in manuscript.
Allen was a bit
harsh, I would say, especially considering Holmes
sometimes refered
to "Go" as his "book about Allen".
It's interesting
that you mention Ginsberg's negative comments on "Go"... in
that McNally
book, he mentions Kerouac's reaction to the book and he didn't like
it either, or
rather he was jealous I think... but then later on if you listen
to the "Is
There A Beat Generation?" track in "The Jack Kerouac
Collection,"
Kerouac, as an
aside, mentions "Go" as a "good book" so, perhaps his
feelings
toward the book
as they often did towards Holmes had changed...
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:51:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: New York City June 17-19
Does anyone
(Levi?) know if there is anything interesting in the way of
readings\literary
events going on in New York on any of those days? I'm
doing a trade
show there, first time in New York, would love to find out
if Corso or
Ginsberg were, by some magical coincidence, reading those days.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:20:26 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: New York City June 17-19
THe NY Public
Library, Berg Collection is Displaying manuscripts of 100
authors in honor
of the Library's 100th anniversary. Part 2, now on
display, is the
modern set, including a lot of Kerouac. Call 212-869-8089.
It's in the Berg
Exhibition Room #318, 5th Ave and 42nd st. Tues and Wed
11AM-6PM,
Thursday-Saturday 10AM-6PM. It's Free.
Mark Hemenway
Dharma beat
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:20:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: New York City June 17-19
Hello Neil! I
believe Allen (& Diane di Prima) will be at Naropa.Give Peter
Hale a call at
Allen's office & he can let you know for sure: 212/675/0288 or
FAX 212/675/1686.
Or get your hands on copy of current Village Voice. All the
Best, Ron
Whitehead 6/06/96
4:19PM RWhiteBone@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:04:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: AG's off. #
Hello! Ya know I
can be a regular dumb fuck with big mouth which I utilize
often for
inserting both feet. I was privately called down by list member (I
won't name) for
giving out AG's off.# in reply to earlier inquiry bout
possible AG GC
NYC reading in June. I have privately apologized for divulging
info I probably
shouldn't have given out but I spoke before I analyzed (why
do I always see
anal when I see that word) so I want to publicly apologize
(pluck out his
eyes apologize). I stay in hot water for being too open too
honest doing too
much. AG advised me once to not bite off more than I could
chew then I went
right out & bit off so much I nearly choked to death. AG LF
DdP & others
have helped me survive several misfortunes near death
experiences as
result of sacrificing way too much to promote poetry. If you
ever see me
wandering NYC or any other part of this land or another walking
at fast pace
babbling rapidly to myself arms full of scrolls (Published in
Heaven Poetry
Posters & other assorted mss) looking lost as hell & like I
haven't eaten for
months do me a favor & kick my sorry ass in the river
(Susquehanna,
Merrimack, Hudson, Otsego, Green, Rough, Mississippi, Ohio,
Danube etc) &
drown me. Thanks! Ron Whitehead
P.S. if any one
of you wants me to sign off service just please send
instructions which
I no longer have & I'll be outtahere.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:31:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christa D. Neu"
<NEUCD@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: AG's off. #
Perhaps this is
entirely irrelevant, but I don't think Ron should sign off
the list for an
over-zealous error...
Maybe people could
simply respect Allen's privacy and not go stomping in
hordes to the
phone with thousands of questions; not a big thing to ask at
all when you
consider how willingly he has provided the world with his time,
it would seem
unfair to demand more of him.
I don't need to
go into all of the things Ginsberg has done to earn such
tremendous
respect, I just want to suggest that perhaps we could show him
some respect in
granting him some privacy; just because we saw a number does
not mean we need
to use it.
While sitting
under a tree in Naropa in '94, I watched groups of people
approach Gary
Snyder who was sitting across the way; each person asked him
essentially the
same question...finally he said one of the most draining
things about
being well known was the demand everyone makes on your time...
That made quite
an impact on me. The writers put their
soul down on the
pages, in the
letters, and in the interviews. It is
all recorded for us to
discover. I then decided that I would always do my
research and then if I
had an
intelligent question, I may think about approaching the writer for
insight. In reading the work, in watching the
performance; there you will
learn more than
you could by standing in a line at a reception to have a
personal audience
with your hero. And when you do have
their attentions;
your chance to
ask them anything in the world, don't waste that opportunity
in asking them
for an ink scribble that merely signifies proof of contact.
It's a lost moment for all...
I would hope that
people could learn to honor the Beat Legacy by working
towards forming
the next mutation, as Ed Sanders suggested, contact the "best
minds" of
your own generation, and move forward...
Information is
more than generously provided by any number of
sources...that's
a fundamental part of this list, so hopefully no one will
plague Allen's
office with unnecessary requests, and then not much harm will
come from Ron's
honest mistake.
My Unsolicted Two
Cents,
Christa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 00:16:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Liz Prato <Lapislove@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ron (exasperated)!
In a message
dated 96-06-07 00:01:33 EDT, Ron writes:
>P.S. if any
one of you wants me to sign off service just please send
>instructions
which I no longer have & I'll be outtahere.
>
>
Hey Ron, take it
easy. We all make mistakes, and relatively speaking, this
wasn't a big one.
-Liz
P.S. Keep in
mind, we might just like you for who YOU are, not just who you
know. :-)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 05:52:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Jan
Kerouac
I'm very sorry to announce to the group. I
just heard on the Boston morning
news at five AM
that Jan Kerouac has passed away. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:01:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: coors commercial...
Hiyas!
I just saw a
coors beer commercial where an ex-con is talking about the
rockies. He talks about a stream where a man can drink
from a stream and
know himself...I
am sure this was from On The Road, but I just sent my
copy away...can
someone look it up for me and tell me if I'm correct?
eternally
dreaming,
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:15:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ron (exasperated)!
Look at the
bright side, at least you didn't give ot Allen's home phone!
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:18:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: AG's off. #
In-Reply-To:
<960606210405_212121692@emout16.mail.aol.com> from "Ron
Whitehead" at Jun 6, 96
09:04:06 pm
> Hello! Ya
know I can be a regular dumb fuck with big mouth which I utilize
> often for
inserting both feet. I was privately called down by list member (I
...
> haven't
eaten for months do me a favor & kick my sorry ass in the river
>
(Susquehanna, Merrimack, Hudson, Otsego, Green, Rough, Mississippi, Ohio,
> Danube etc)
& drown me. Thanks! Ron Whitehead
i thought i was
too critical with myself....hey ron...would never think of
destroying a
creative force such as yours...overzealous?...i think of all
who witness
without absorbing....who take without giving....to me, not
saying anything
at all is more destructive than a slip of the tongue....
and although i am
not ginsberg, i think it would be easy for him to forgive
someone who
sincerely meant no harm....
last night,
ginsberg did a signing....i really loathe the crowds that
have dollar signs
in their eyes....i stood on line, not to take, but to
give...a thank
you...(he was with a local artist, eric drooker...they
collaborated on a
new release...intense disturbing images with ginsberg's
analytical
brilliance...)
i must admit that
ginsberg was a gift for me after i started reading
kerouac....i
never finished howl....this was the reason
for my witnessing
this prostitution in a seemingly harmless
barnes and
noble....(gaad, can't even write the name without
feeling animosity
toward all monopolizing conglomerates)....and i could
feel his
frustration with the whole business as well, but the reward for
drooker seemed to
make up for it...
and lo, as i
approached the newly annointed septogenarian (smirk)
i simply said,
"i came here to give...not to take..."
and i handed him
my soul the day i read howl....
instead of
chastizing yourself for your error in judgement (which is
clearly an effort
in futility when it comes to resolving anything) i am
sure you can find
a way to give something back....and fuck anyone who
cannot accept
that sometimes human beings use poor judgement....life goes on.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:24:14 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JoAnn Ruvoli
<jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject: Forwarded mail.... -Forwarded (fwd)
FYI.....
Jack Kerouac's
Daughter, Jan, Dies After Long Illness
With AP Photo
By RICHARD BENKE
Associated Press
Writer
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) -- Jan Kerouac, the
novelist daughter of
Beat Generation
chronicler and cult hero Jack Kerouac, has died
after a long
battle with kidney disease. She was 44.
Jan Kerouac died Wednesday evening at
Albuquerque's Lovelace
Medical Center, a
day after having her spleen removed, Kerouac
biographer Gerald
Nicosia said Thursday.
She suffered kidney failure five years ago
and had been on
dialysis ever
since, administering self-dialysis as often as four
times a day,
Nicosia said in San Francisco.
Born Feb. 16, 1952, in Albany, N.Y., Jan
Kerouac wrote much the
same style as her
father, with "very vivid sensory evocations,"
Nicosia said.
Her "Baby Driver," published in
1981, dealt with her childhood
in New York's
lower East Side during the turbulent 1960s.
"Trainsong"
(1988) was about her travels after that first book.
It's named after
the community in Eugene, Ore., where her mother
lived.
She had been working on "Parrot
Fever," about the 1991 death
of her mother,
Joan Haverty, Kerouac's second wife. Nicosia said he
would like to
help see it published posthumously.
"Her mother's death hit her really
hard. She was her last real
close connection,
somebody she could open up to, trust in," he
said.
Jan Kerouac, who met her father only twice
-- once during a
paternity lawsuit
filed by her mother when she was 10 -- spent her
final years
promoting his legacy and battling for control of his
archives.
"Her main intent was to put it into a
museum or a library and
preserve it
forever. She was ill," Nicosia said, "but she was on
this quest to do
something for her father's memory. Now she won't
get to see how it
turns out."
In 1994, she sued relatives of Kerouac's
last wife, Stella
Sampas, who
inherited the notebooks, teletype rolls and parchment
scrolls on which
Kerouac wrote "On the Road" and laid down the
first rumblings
of post-war alienation that set the tone for the
so-called Beat
Generation of the 1950s.
Her lawyer, Tom Brill of Newport Beach,
Calif., said trial is
still tentatively
set for September in St. Petersburg, Fla.
The plaintiffs contend the will of Kerouac's
mother, Gabrielle
Kerouac, leaving
her son's effects to Stella Sampas, was a forgery.
Had she died
without a will, the estate would have gone to her two
grandchildren,
Jan Kerouac and Paul Blake Jr., her daughter's son.
Nicosia said the absence of her father, who
died of alcoholism
in 1969,
"was a big hole in her life."
"Jan loved him very much and was
haunted by not having him and
wanting to get to
know him, trying to follow in his footsteps,"
Nicosia said.
He said Ms. Kerouac will be cremated, and
hoped to be buried in
the Nashua, N.H.,
Kerouac family plot, where she had battled in
vain to have her
father's remains moved from from Lowell, Mass.
She is survived only by two half-sisters, a
half-brother and a
cousin. Twice
divorced, she was unmarried at the time of her death
and had no
children of her own, Nicosia said.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:46:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Autographs
On Thu, 6 Jun
1996 23:31:08 -0400 "Christa D. Neu" <NEUCD@aol.com> wrote:
> And when you
do have their attentions;
> your chance
to ask them anything in the world, don't waste that opportunity
> in asking
them for an ink scribble that merely signifies proof of contact.
> It's a lost
moment for all...
and
On Fri, 7 Jun
1996 09:18:09 -0400 Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
wrote:
> last night,
ginsberg did a signing....i really loathe the crowds that
> have dollar
signs in their eyes....i stood on line, not to take, but to
> give...a
thank you...
I wonder at the
hostility people have towards the practice of asking
authors to sign
books. Whenever I have the chance to meet an author I
really admire I
ask them to sign a book I own of their's. I have never,
nor will I ever
sell any of these volumes. If the author means that much
to me that I
would seek them out, or go somewhere to hear them read, I
always have
something to say to them. I cannot help but have something to
say. As a writer
who has been moved, to be at a loss for words would be
anathema, and for
me, a spiritual death. To be unable to respond, to be
unable to give
back something of what their work meant to me would be a
betrayal.
As for 'mere
proof of contact' every time I open a book and see the
signature and
inscription (hopefully a clever one, but sometimes it's so
hard to come up
with something charmingly witty on the spot ;-) it is a
welcome and warm
reminder of the time and words I have shared.
As a poet with a
published chap-book I am always honoured when people ask
me to sign their
copy. However small, it is an appreciation for the words
I have given
them, and a request that I make the gift of my words personal.
I guess I've
never had 2 hundred people lined up at a Barnes & Noble to
have my autograph
without more than a, "I really love your work..."
I cannot help
thinking of a poem by Mark Harrison from _Hero of the Play_
where he talks of
the fan's quest for his hockey hero's autograph. He
builds it like a
mystic phenomenon, a desire for the magical inscription
on the face of a
card, ending with the simple phrase, detached from the
rest of the poem,
emphasized with italics,
I love you, give
me your name
(I have done
Harrison an injustice, because I can't convey the power, the
building momentum
of the poem towards those final lines, but I hope
wherever he is he
can forgive me since his words affected me so deeply
that I tried,
however inadequately, to convey my feelings on it.)
An autograph is a
gift, which I am always grateful to receive, and always
honoured to give.
As for Ron's
error, since I was the one who asked for the info, rest
assured that I
will go through polite channels, and will not usurp the
information
mistakenly given. You are lucky to be able to know these
people, and I
would never do anything to jeopardize your relationship
with them.
I leave you with the
oft-quoted line from Derrida:
"When I
sign, I am already dead."
Jacques Derrida
Stay Warm,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:13:57 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Autographs
Regarding
autographs...
Autograph-hound
that I am, I cherish my paperback Portable Beat Reader which
currently
contains no less
than 14 autographs of various Beat writers whose work is in the
book. I
love to sit and
read it at my huge, L-shaped walnut desk which is, incidently,
signed
(on the inside of
a drawer) by its previous owner, philosopher Mortimer J. Adler
(who is
NOT a beat).
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:16:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Claire Davison
<Claire_Davison@FPKLON.CCMAIL.COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Jan Kerouac's death
What
are the circumstances surrounding Jan Kerouac's death?
I didn't even know she was ill, she was
only in her 40's wasn't she??
Claire
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:11:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: New York City June 17-19
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.ULT.3.91.960606154821.6094A-100000@noether.math.uwaterloo.ca>
from "Neil Hennessy" at Jun 6,
96 03:51:28 pm
> Does anyone
(Levi?) know if there is anything interesting in the way of
>
readings\literary events going on in New York on any of those days? I'm
Wow, I wish you
asked this 2 days ago. Ginsberg read
last nite at
Barnes &
Noble in Union Square, and the night before Robert Creeley
read at St Mark's
Church. But I don't know anything
else. THere's
one real answer to
this question -- get the Village Voice every
wednesday.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
Let's head back to
Tennessee, Jed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:33:19 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: beep <MULBPOLL@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac's death
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:16:41 EDT from
<Claire_Davison@FPKLON.CCMAIL.COMPUSERVE.COM>
Hi fellow Beats.
I would also
appreciate any info surrounding Jan Kerouac's apparent
sudden death. I
am an editor for a university library literary
magazine and
would like to do either a small article or filler for
the July/August
issue.
Thanks,
beep
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:49:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jan Kerouac
Hello! Yes Jan
Kerouac, a beautiful and brilliant person, is dead. Only a
handful of people
realized, or chose to believe, the grave nature of her
illness(es). Some
thought her problems were being glorified in order to aid
her lawsuit
gainst the Kerouac Estate when in fact she really was deathly ill
& wished more
than anything to reach an agreement with Sampases which would
insure that her
father's work be kept together in one place where all could
share in viewing
& studying. Jan's life was tragic. I hope
more people will
become aware of
her as a person thru her work. I will do what I can to help
in that area. A
couple weeks ago I finished production of new Published in
Heaven Poster by
Jan with incredible Chris Felver photo (which will also be
included in
Chris' new Angels, Anarchists, & Gods to be released in
conjunction with
NOrleans event) of Jan at her father's grave in Lowell, Mass
plus poem by her
titled "Natasha."
Also, as part of
New Orleans Event there will be a Jan Kerouac panel
discussion with
Gerald Nicosia, Diane di Prima & others. Plus I am Guest
Editor of TRIBE
magazine's August issue (release July 31st/August 1st) which
will focus on
event cover to cover with features on Burroughs, Ferlinghetti,
di Prima, Ed
Sanders, David Amram, Robert Creeley, Lee Ranaldo, plus many
others plus I am
including a Tribute to Jan Kerouac with complete dedication
text by Gerald
Nicosia & poem by Jan. In case you missed the event is called:
RANT for the
literary renaissance & The Majic Bus present Voices Without
Restraint 48-Hour
Non-Stop Music & Poetry INSOMNIACATHON at The New Orleans
Contemporary Arts
Center & The Howlin Wolf Club August 16-18. I'm in middle
of wrapping up
booking & other preparations plus deadlines for TRIBE & will
be back in New
Orleans round 18th for few days but I will post list of
performers &
more event info in week or two.
May Jan Kerouac's
sweet & precious soul be blessed forever! Ron Whitehead
6/06/96
12:48PM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:33:59 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Autographs
I guess one has
to experience the voracious rudeness of the crowds that
literally mob Allen
Ginsburg whenever he sits down in a public place. We
are not talking
about a line 200 people, rather a mob of 200 crowded
around pushing
books in his face for signature. I think he is pretty
generous to give
the time and attention he does.
Mark Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:35:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JoAnn Ruvoli
<jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Autographs
In-Reply-To: <vines.47J8+4U4ilA@S1.DRC.COM>
I would have to
agree. I've seen him read a couple of times, and
even when the
crowd was calm and cooperative, the shear number of people
that show up can
cause logistical problems. One reading
was held in a
small space at a
Waterstone's and the seating ran out immediately.
Getting Ginsburg
to the mike and back was handled poorly, and while he
tried to accommodate
the crowd, it was clear that he was upset.
His
reading was still
very exciting dispite the problems.
JoAnne
On Fri, 7 Jun
1996, mARK hEMENWAY wrote:
> I guess one
has to experience the voracious rudeness of the crowds that
> literally
mob Allen Ginsburg whenever he sits down in a public place. We
> are not
talking about a line 200 people, rather a mob of 200 crowded
> around
pushing books in his face for signature. I think he is pretty
> generous to
give the time and attention he does.
>
> Mark
Hemenway
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:28:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Autographs
Allan gave a
reading up here in Marquette, Michigan, quite some time ago.
My buddy and I
went to the reading, which had an early intermission to
allow the
American Association of University Women representatives a chance
to sneak out the
side door. We also were invited to the reception following
this.
The reception was
at a friend's house, and Allen seemed pretty damned
comfortable
talking and visiting. I pulled one of Arthur and Kit Knight's
first books, _The
Beat Generation_, out of my bag, and when Allen saw it he
said, "Where
the hell did you find that thing???"
I asked if he'd
mind just signing hhis name, and he turned to a page that
showed the
McDarrah photo of (according to the caption) "Allen, blowing a
kiss".
"Shit,"
he said, "I wasn't blowing a kiss."
"I was
making a proposition to the photographer..."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:12:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Ron's boo boo
No need to list
the list Ron! All of us have pressed
that little send button a
time or two without thinking about what we
were doing.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:12:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Hi!
I have noticed
some animosity towards Barnes and Nobles on this list. I
think that is
totally, completely, and utterly uncalled for.
Barnes and
Nobles is a first
rate chain of bookstores that carries the widest
variety of books
availiable to most of the general public.
True, the
Stanford Bookstore
does have a wider selection (as do most college
bookstores, I
assume) but when I can't run all the way down to Stanford,
Barnes and Nobles
is the only chain that's ever heard of Allen Ginsberg.
As beat fans, we
should be especially grateful that B&N has as many beat
books as they
do. The local B. Dalton had nothing by
Ginsberg and all of
four books by
Kerouac. Barnes and Nobles has an entire
row devoted to
poetry.
I know some
people may feel animosity simply because Barnes and Nobles is
driving the
smaller chains out of existence, but on the other hand, B&N
is large, well
stocked, with knowledgable employees, and generates
a sufficient
volume of sales to allow people to browse in the store for
several
hours. No one there cares if you sit down
and read an entire
book
cover-to-cover - they know that you'll probably by something. No
obnoxious sales
persons come and harass you. Aside from
just Beat, B&N
has a well
stocked fiction and non-fiction area that carries more than
the latest Tom
Clancy or Anne Rice book.
So let's stop
being so idealistic and acknowledge a good thing when we
see one.
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:47:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Jan Kerouac's death-Lowell Sun
Headlines in the
Lowell Sun - Kerouac's daughter dies after operation
Died (age 44)
following an operation to remove her spleen...went into
cardiac arrest
Wednesday...had been in the hospital much of last month.
Nicosia said.
She had planed to
travel to Lowell in October for a speaking engagement at
Middlesex
community college. She was her father's daughter "in too many
ways" said
Nicosia. "She tried to live his life. She never really knew him,
and that was the
only way she could find him. It haunted her all her life,
since childhood
when her mother would always talk about him. It left a hole
in her
life."...she carried on a legal battle which will continue her lawyer
said
yesterday....The suit contends that the will of Kerouac's mother
Gabriel was a
forgery. Jan's lawyer Tom Brill told a wire service reporter
"we're going
forward with the lawsuit " which is tentatively set for Sept.
in St. Petersburg
Florida... She asked to be buried in he Kerouac plot in
Nashua N.H..
Deborah Bower of Albuquerque is handling the funeral
arrangements
which are incomplete. said Nicosia...
This goes on and on ...
"We are
deeply saddened by this unexpected turn of events," said the Sampas
family in a
statement. Further the AP wire had said
that the Sampas family
would allow her
request to be buried in Nashua.
Please don't
shoot the messenger I'm just reporting what was said in the
Lowell Sun and on
the AP news. The Lowell Sun article is pretty extensive so
if you want a
copy here is their address Phil
Lowell Sun
15 Kearney Square
Lowell, MA 01852
508-458-7100
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 10:47:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J. Gardner"
<jag@RAHUL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
Why is gratitude
appropriate for what is a coldcut business decision on
B&N's part?
They do what they
do solely for business reasons --in this case to be
considered a
"cultured bookstore" -- to assume otherwise would be the
unrealistic thing.
I dont have a
problem with that, but gratitude? I will never be grateful for
a culture turned
upside down.
Regards
Jim Gardner
>Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:12:00 -0700
>From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
>Subject:
<No subject given>
>
>Hi!
>I have
noticed some animosity towards Barnes and Nobles on this list. I
>think that is
totally, completely, and utterly uncalled for.
Barnes and
.....
>As beat fans,
we should be especially grateful that B&N has as many beat
>books as they
do.
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:03:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan Kerouac
As we ponder
Jan's death, let us be thankful for her two fine books and her
dedication to the
best parts of her father's great, but flawed legacy.
I don't know if
ONLY the good die young, but it sure seems like it sometimes.
To what extent do
people feel that deep, searing pain seems to be a
pre-requsite for
great literature?
I hope Jan was
happier in her later years. Did the
Kerouac groupies (I say
that
non-perjoritively) bring Jan any joy or was she just all the more
tortured given
the recent controversies?
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:03:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Autographs
I like to get my
books signed. The main thing is just to
be cool about it.
Don't shove the stuff in Allen's face (or
whomever)...wait until the crowd
dies down a
bit...have something interesting to say.
If people are
cool, my experience that the beats (for that matter, other
authors, etc)
will enjoy signing books. And if they
just get tired and
refuse, no big
deal.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 17:30:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Perry Lindstrom
<LindLitGrp@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jan K.
It's times like
this that I wish I didn't have my digest function on as I
would imagine
there are many messages out there about Jan Kerouac's death at
such a tragically
young age. The picture that was in the
NYTimes obit would
indicate she was
an extraordinarily beautiful woman. Did
she succumb to the
same disease that
killed her father? I have been lurking
of late and working
on my own
writing, but I noticed that there was a thread on Kerouac, women
and death --
ironic that this should be taking place at this time.
Perry Lindstrom
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 23:32:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Jan Kerouac memorial service
I found this
posted on the rec.arts.books.marketplace news group of all
places. I don't
know where they got it from but I assume it's accurate. Phil
Jan Kerouac,
daughter of Jack Kerouac passed away June 6.
A memorial service
will be held at
Prince of Peace Catholic Church, Albuquerque, N.M. 87122 at 6
pm, June 10.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:58:37 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: BELATED :-)) THANKS
Hi you all,
Thank you so much
for these lots of mails concerning the word
"BELATED".
I was just
worrying if this mailing list is the right place for asking
silly questions
about the English language. So I feel like saying
sorry to all
those who really want to kill me because of this mistake
of mine.
I hope this will
be the last mail concerning this topic. Let's move on
to some
Beat-related topics again.
Cosmopolitan
Greetings,
Jens
Jens Moellenhoff
Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German Language)
University of
Munich, Germany
*** Language is a
Virus from Outer Space ***
*** William S. Burroughs ***
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:15:50 GMT
Reply-To: steven.dean@vuw.ac.nz
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Steve Dean
<steven.dean@VUW.AC.NZ>
Subject: Evergreen Review (Vol 2 No 8 Spring 1959)
all
was just sending
this off to a pal and not knowing if its been
anthologised or
is on a webpage - thought i'd send a copy here - its a
jk piece from the
Evergreen Review Magazine (Vol 2 No 8 Spring 1959)
page 57 <apologies if you all know it>
steved
<>?<>/<>?<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?<>/<>?
JACK KEROUAC
Belief & Technique for Modern Prose
List of
Essentials
1. Scribbled
secret notebooks, and wild typewritten pages, for yr
own joy
2. Submissive to
everything, open, listening
3. Try never get
drunk outside yr own house
4. Be in love
with yr life
5. Something that
you feel will find its own form
6. Be crazy
dumbsaint of the mind
7. Blow as deep
as you want to blow
8. write what you
want bottomless from bottom of the mind
9. The
unspeakable visions of the individual
10. No time for
poetry but exactly what is
11. Visionary
tics shivering in the chest
12. In tranced
fixation dreaming upon object before you
13. Remove
literary, grammatical and syntactical inhibition
14. Like Proust
be an old teahead of time
15. Telling the
true story of the world in interior monolog
16. The jewel
centre of interest is the eye within the eye
17. Write in
recollection and amazement for yourself
18. Work from
pithy middle eye out, swimming in language sea
19. Accept loss
forever
20. Believe in
the holy contour of life
21. Struggle to
sketch the flow that already exists intact in mind
22. Don't think
of words when you stop but to see picture better
23. Keep track of
everyday the date emblazoned in yr morning
24. No fear or
shame in the dignity of yr experience, language &
knowledge
25. Write for the
world to read and see yr exact pictures of it
26. Bookmovie is
the movie in words, the visual American form
27. In Praise of
Character in the Bleak inhuman Loneliness
28. Composing
wild, undisciplined, pure, coming in from under,
crazier the better
29. You're a
Genius all the time
30.
Writer-Director of Earthly movies Sponsored & Angeled in
Heaven
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:54:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Lowell Sun News-KEROUAC ARCHIVES
"CRIPPLED"
Lowell Sun
headlines- JACK KEROUAC TAPES TIED UP IN LEGAL LIMBO. It appears
that the taped
interviews that Gerry Nicosia sold to the University of
Lowell which is a
historic collection of 503 entries (interviews, many of
the people are
deceased), has been "crippled". supposedly because Nicosia
did not get
WRITTEN permission from the people he interviewed. Gerry is
saying he had
permission but not in writing. It talks about a serious
researcher who
was denied permission and told that to listen to the tapes
she needed
written permission from the subjects of the interview or if they
are deceased then
from that persons estate. It also talks about the fact
that the tapes
are old and that many have not been dubbed or transcribed.
Nicosia is
talking about a lawsuit for breach of contract as he thought they
were going to be
for public use. This is almost a full page article and
quite extensive.
To quote Nicosia at the end of the article. " It was part
of the
negotiations that they would make it available to the public. That
was part of the
deal. And the other thing is the possibility of fraud. They
assured me this
would be made available. I was deceived."
My opinion is
that this sucks. This is a historical collection that will
never again be
duplicated and to start "pulling" interviews is to destroy a
part of history.
For example even if a person being interviewed agreed THEN
to do the
interview and wanted it archived for historical reasons or
posterity, now
the relatives can stop it from being used. Think of the
problems this
could cause. What if a person had four relatives and two want
it used and two
don't? Then what? To make a person get permission for every
interview she/he
wants to listen to can make it impossible for doing
research. This is
not good. This is almost a full page article in the Sun.
If you want to
read the whole article. Here is the address of the paper it
is in. Mondays
paper 6-10-96. Phil
Lowell Sun
15 Kearney Square
Lowell, MA 01852
508-458-7100
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:23:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960608174742.006ba1f0@rahul.net>
We should be
grateful that one bookstore actually stocks beat
literature. Regardless of why they do it, they do it, and
we should be
thankful that
they do it...
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
On Sat, 8 Jun
1996, J. Gardner wrote:
> Why is
gratitude appropriate for what is a coldcut business decision on
> B&N's
part?
>
> They do what
they do solely for business reasons --in this case to be
> considered a
"cultured bookstore" -- to assume otherwise would be the
> unrealistic
thing.
>
> I dont have
a problem with that, but gratitude? I will never be grateful for
> a culture
turned upside down.
>
> Regards
>
> Jim Gardner
>
>
>Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:12:00
-0700
>
>From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
> >Subject:
<No subject given>
> >
> >Hi!
> >I have
noticed some animosity towards Barnes and Nobles on this list. I
> >think
that is totally, completely, and utterly uncalled for. Barnes and
> .....
> >As beat
fans, we should be especially grateful that B&N has as many beat
> >books as
they do.
>
>
> Jonathan
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:02:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate
(SampasFamily)
Thanks to Phil
for sharing oh so important Nicosia Lowell Beat archives
update with us.
I had long talk with Gerry after Jan's death.
We talked about Jan & various
projects to pay
tribute to her but we also discussed the Lowell Archives
issue at length.
According to Gerry the Sampases used power to shut down the
Archives all
because of lawsuit between Jan & Kerouac Estate. As Phil
mentions
historically valuable oral interviews with all the key players must
be dubbed from
old to new tapes or they will be lost forever not to mention
that now no one
has access to any of the material. There is much more to be
told here. I've
seen the lawsuit destroy friendships & make people act like
cowards. Many have been afraid to defend Jan for fear
of repercussions from
The Estate.
Hatefilled language and name calling ("psychopath" etc) abounds.
Just like in most
divorces if you only listen to one side you may come to
believe the other
person is a monster when in fact there's usually right &
wrong good &
bad intentions & behavior on both sides. Differences must be
reconciled. There
is so much Kerouac, & other related, material imprisoned
that must be set
free. We (you & I) must speak out (without the fear of being
blackballed) when
we can & plead with people like John Sampas to work for
reconciliation.
Pressure must be applied somewhere otherwise materials will
be lost or tied
up forever. Ron Whitehead 6/10/96 10PM
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:08:54 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate
(SampasFamily)
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@INTERBIT.CREN.NET
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Mon, 10 Jun 1996
22:02:04 EDT
It does seem hard
to believe, though, that Nicosia didn't consider
getting
_wriitten_ approval from his interviewees. Researchers ought to
know the value of
something like that!
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:06:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: written approval for interviews
Jim Stedman makes
an excellent point about "Researchers OUGHT to know the
value of
something like that." I haven't studied Gerald Nicosia's life or
personality
enough to know how much he considers himself to be an official
Researcher. My
guess (guesses are like opinions & assholes. we all have them.
they are what
level the playing field. the great equalizers) is that he is
part
Researcher/Academic (being one of the leading scholars on Beats & other
fields. he's
completing 1,400 page book on Vietnam Vets now) & part Rebel.
It's easy to
second guess. Hindsight is 20/20 etc. When you're in the heat of
battle, in the
heart of the sacred flame, often your intuition is your guide.
Analysis is
secondary to getting the job done, to creating the work of art.
You walk the
tightrope without a safety net but you're willing to take the
risks
(holy/unholy risks) because you are tapped into, connected with a force
an energy that is
more than who what you are.
There's nothing I
despise more than all the legal contracting formal
documentation
that we've all been led to believe must be done in order for
anything
worthwhile to be accomplished. Having published nearly 200 titles by
many known
authors & produced over 300 events involving many of the same
people plus many
others I have been forced to resort to some kind of legal
contract/documentation
maybe five times. I have done it all via word of mouth
& handwritten
letter agreement. "Will you do it? What are the terms? Ok.
Let's go."
Handshake. Thank yous. High fives. Kisses. Hugs. Much good will.
Yes it's
dangerous to say fuck the legal system. Yes today it's a risk.
Somebody may sue
my ass any time & if I'm dealing with someone who doesn't
trust people
& is all caught up in legalities & contracts (music industry is
worst of all)
then I'll let my attorney handle it (& I must say I avoid
agents &
managers if at all possible as, in my experience, 75-90% of time
they are
interested in one thing = money = & can be the rudest assholes from
hell). I am interested
in creating energy that invites the creative
imagination back
in to people's lives. The creative imagination saves lives
in many different
ways & one of those is that it allows people to remember
that there are
alternative paths to follow in this world, not just the one
prescribed by the
system.
There is an
implicit & explicit understanding when you interview someone (I'm
interviewing
William S. Burroughs this week) that yes both parties know that
the interview
will be made accessible to public sooner or later in one form
or another. Why
else would you be doing the interview in the first place. If
there was another
reason it wouldn't be an interview it would merely be a
friendly
conversation. To ask for written
permission is entering legal zone
that friends, or
people on friendly terms, don't consider or just don't want
to fuck with. I'm
sure Gerry Nicosia, even if it crossed his mind, felt
certain that he
had all the permission he'd ever need by the simple fact that
the interviewees
agreed to & did the interview.
Our society has
become so legalistic it's nearly unbearable. I constantly
find myself
desiring to move to remote island off coast of Ireland or Greece.
Just say Fuck it
All. But for me it's getting late. I have too much I feel
urgent need to
do. I have a mission. I am engaged & looks like I will be
until I exit this
plane.
None of this is
meant to attack Jim Stedman. I'm merely offering my point of
view, my opinion,
showing my ass to the world. Ron Whitehead
6/11/96 9:05AM
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:42:58 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SLAVEN BILIC <NN279@LAMP.AC.UK>
Subject: Spoken word
Curious thing about the interviews, I know
that in this country at least
(England &
Wales), the copyright rests with the interviewer not the
interviewee.In practice this has meant an
abundance of interviews of music and
literary
figures being
released on vinyl and CD, often of poor quality and often of
dubious merit.
Whether this is better or not is open to debate of course...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:07:56 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Lowell Sun News-KEROUAC ARCHIVES
"CRIPPLED"
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:54:32 -0400
from <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
This should be a
lesson to all of us who do interviews in our research.
Always get the
subject to sign a standard release form and better yet,
get the
permission on the tape itself. It seems
the best thing Gerry
can do at the
moment is track down as many subjects as he can and get
their permission.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:18:57 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate
(SampasFamily)
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:08:54 EDT from
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
I sure hope Gerry
has copies of all the tapes he gave to the Lowell library. A
t least that way
we know one copy can be preserved.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:17:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: aHHHHHHHHHH....
TRYING TO SEE IF
THISLL FARGING WARK DAMMIT
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:16:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate
(SampasFamily)
At 06:08 AM
6/11/96 EDT, you wrote:
>It does seem
hard to believe, though, that Nicosia didn't consider
>getting
_wriitten_ approval from his interviewees. Researchers ought to
>know the
value of something like that!
>Jim Stedman
>
> Hi Jim. Good
point but I think that the average person would be quite
intimidated by a
interviewer asking them to sign a written permission form.
The thinking
would be maybe they might be libel for something they said. I
have heard and
was there for some of these interviews and Gerry was quite
open about the
fact that he was doing research and was writing a book and
the tape recorder
was right on the table (or bar). I have even heard some of
the people say
"turn that off for a minute" and then tell a story "off the
record".
Obviously if you are writing a book and you tell the people being
interviewed about
it you would think they would assume the public will
eventually hear
what was said. Another point, if I go and take Ann Charters
new book of
letters out of the library and publish some letters from it on
my own, the
library wouldn't be sued, I would. My God every library in the
world would be at
risk if that was the case. What's the difference here? I
don't know it
just seems a shame to me that even one of these interviews be
lost.
I don't want to
sound like I'm taking sides here in the Sampas/Nicosia
battle because
I'm not. I just think it's a shame that this historical
archive is not
accessible to the public or even to serious researchers of
the Kerouac
legacy. I hope we can somehow get it accessible again. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:46:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
At 10:18 AM
6/11/96 EDT, you wrote:
>I sure hope
Gerry has copies of all the tapes he gave to the Lowell
library. At least that way we know one copy can be
preserved.
He doesn't have them that is the sad
part. He sold them to the
University with
the intention of haveing them archived and preserved for
scholarly use.
Now who knows what will happen. It sounds like they have
already
"pulled" some of them and this alone is an outrage. These are State
property owned by
all the taxpayers in Mass. We own them. I want to read
more before I go
on about this. I'll get back to you all later. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:04:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19960612024613.00695f4c@pop.tiac.net>
Hmm...I forgot
the name of this list. Was it legal
babble and petty
griping about
copyright laws-l? Was it lawyer-l? Nope...it was
BEAT-L ...
can't we talk
about something Beat? As opposed to
boring legal docs?
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:16:19 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
1. There are
laws, rules and procedures for doing oral
history/interviews.These
are not new or secret. Whether right or
wrong,
these were
created to protect the interviewee from unwanted invasion of
privacy and
rip-off of intellectual property. Responsible researchers
understand, and
work within or at least around these rules.
2. Having been
more involved in this thing than I ever cared or want to
be, I encourage
everyone to seek out "the facts" rather than accept
statements and
rumors at face value. I have found the facts often at
variance with the
things being said in published articles and being passed
"around the
circuit."
3. I'm with
Jonathan. To liberally paraphrase Allen Ginsberg at the last
NYU Conference
"Let's talk about poetry, not lawsuits."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:46:57 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:16:19 EDT from
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Mark is
right. Having studied Oral History at
Columbia in the 1970s, I
can confirm that
stress was always placed on obtaining written and
verbal permission
(onthe tape) to release the interview.
Most libraries
and archives
follow strict rules to protect the privacy of the subjects
interviewd. (Of course, they really are protecting
themselves from
legal
suits.) While I too would rather talk
about literature than legal
squabbles, I
share Phil's concern that these interviews be made
available to the
public. It seems the best thing to do
now is to begin
trying to obtain
releases from those interviewees who are still with us.
Sincethe Lowell
Public Library has assumed ownership of the interviews,
it would seemto
me that they are in the best position to pursue these
releases. I'm sure Gerry would be willing to cooperate
in any way
possible. However, there's another issue here: why is it that the
library isn't
re-copying the tapes to preserve the material?
Is there a
feeling that
these tapes will never be made public so why keep them?
Does the library
feel that the material isn't worthwhile?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:53:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: poetry vs lawsuits
Hello! I agree
somewhat with what Mark Hemenway & Allen Ginsberg have to say
about talking
about poetry instead of lawsuits. ButThe powers that be would
like nothing
better than our silence especially on subjects that might
tarnish their
image or even worse remove change from their pockets. I think
this is ideal
venue to discuss a lawsuit that directly influences everything
we're about. Yes
there is such a thing as shooting a dead horse & rehashing
the same old shit
gets old quick but many people (including folks on this
list) don't even
know what's been going on with Kerouac material so part of
this Kerouac Beat
related lawsuit discussion is educational. I agree: the
important &
interesting issue by far is poetry. It is unfortunate & even
disgusting to me
when poetry enters the hellish realms of The Law but just
like William
Blake marching through the streets of London protesting the
treatment of
children (no labor laws) I refuse to stand idly by & watch (like
so many did as
Jews were carted to the ovens) when wrongs are being done in
the interest of
& to protect the ruling elite (whatever area of life).
And one other
point: Just because there are "laws, rules and
procedures...Responsible
researchers understand..." doesn't mean that they
are right or
valid or always, generally, or even occasionally used by
Responsible
researchers. And what who is a responsible researcher? The one
designated by the
law? by Academia? the one who supports & protects the
established
canon? If ever anyone any group chose to do things differently,
to find a new
way, The Beats did. The real question here is not did Nicosia
abide by the
letter of the law but did the people he did interviews with
think it was
okay. Could he have ripped off 500 interviewees? Why are the
archives locked
up? What is the Kerouac estate's motivation?
Voices Without
Restraint! Ron Whitehead 6/12/96
12:51PM
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:12:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jan & Gerry vs Kerouac Estate
(SampasFamily)
Here's an ironic
fact:
About 40 years
ago, one major obstacle remained to FINALLY publishing a book
called On The
Road - the lawyers for the publisher (I can't remember which
publisher it was
just now) held up the publication for many months, even
years, because of
the obvious real life characters in the book (even though
the names were
changed) and the various illegal activities depicted. Jack
Kerouac's letters
from the time cry with pain and frustration about the legal
wrangeling that
held up the book for so long.
After reading the
letters I'm convinced that the long period Kerouac spent
waiting to be
published, living off the charity of friends and family,
contributed much
to his eventual breakdown. He never
found an even keel, it
was boom or bust,
never in between. And for the many years
between
publishing The
Town and the City and On the Road, it was bust for Jack
Kerouac, he was
beat. Creative, Yes - but beat indeed.
40 years later,
recreational use of relitively harmless substances such as
marijuana remain
illegal (drug use was undoubetedly one thing that made the
lawyers so
nervious back in 1956). And 40 years
later, obtaining
"permissions"
still holds up ligitimate, historical research.
Many common
sexual practices
also remain illegal. Drinking ones self
to death is still
common (no legal
problem there!)
"The more
things change, the more they remain the same." (who said that
anyway? - I don't
have permission to use the quote!).
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:00:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Stedman <jstedman@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits
The rub is
certainly expressed best here in Ron's final two questions...
most importantly
the one that asks the estate's motivation. Phil is pretty
close to the
whole scene and as it unfolds, he will
no doubt be keeping
the list up to
date.
The issues of
what is to be gained and what could very well be lost are
certainly ones
relevant to this list, eh?
Perhaps the time
is now to establish a chaotic order or strategy. I doubt
whether any of the
powers respresented in this legal battle are present in
this forum... so
I wonder how it is that the 200-plus-change folks here
might be able to
express what opinion they might have regarding the
preservation/access
of GN's interview tapes to those people. Are there
names? Are there
adresses? is this skirmish getting much Lowell radio time?
Is it present in
The Sun's editorial pages, or letters?
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:02:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: poetry & lawsuits
And besides that
a few other lawsuits related specifically to poetry & prose
come to mind.
Remember James Joyce, D.H. Lawrence, Henry Miller, Allen
Ginsberg to name
a few worth discussing in relation to poetry to literature.
If it wasn't for
Kenneth Rexroth going into the courts and telling the judge
& jury &
the world the historical significance of HOWL(thanks T.K.), not to
mention Lawrence
Ferlinghetti publishing the book, where would book & author
be today? Same
place? Maybe. Maybe not.
Who's the early
feminist who said regardless of the consequences she refused
to become more
conservative (play it safe) with age. Regardless of what
heights we
climb we need to always remember where
we started, how we got to
where we are,
& who helped along the way.
And if by chance
we started out on top & fell from grace at some point hey
maybe it hurt(s)
like hell but consider it an opportunity to see what life is
like for most
everybody else on this planet. If you were born with silver
spoon &
haven't been introduced to compassion I hope you're fortunate enough
to meet her along
your way.
Yes let's discuss
poetry. Ron Whitehead
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:59:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: poetry
In a message
dated 96-06-12 15:04:33 EDT,Ron W. wrote:
>Yes let's
discuss poetry.
I just read
charming old Ginsberg poem - umm, should specify poem old
(1958-newer than
I am) , not A.G. - anyway, it's "Ignu".
>ignu knows
nothing of the world
>a great
ignoramus....
>ignu has
knowledge of the angel indeed ignu is angel in comical form
Julie (aspiring
ignulie)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:53:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
At 10:04 PM
6/11/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Hmm...I
forgot the name of this list. Was it
legal babble and petty
>griping about
copyright laws-l? Was it lawyer-l? Nope...it was
>BEAT-L ...
>
>can't we talk
about something Beat? As opposed to
boring legal docs?
>
>jonathan
>
>=========================
>Jonathan
Kratter, Dreamer
>
> "Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
> of life."
>Hmm...I
forgot the name of this list. Was it
crying-about-what-people-talk-about-on-the-list-when-they-are-talking-about-
something-important-L Gimme a break. I thought Kerouac was a BEAT
and the
beat-l list is
for talking about the beats. Instead of crying and doing the
list
administrator's job. Who by the way does a great job without your
input. Why don't
you write about something beat instead of a silly post like
this. Phil
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:16:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Kerouac...Beat?
It don't start
w/Jack, folks--
It has always
been here to stumble into. <g>
Of course we already
knew that--
In the words of
Mammy Yokum, "Ah hez spoken!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:36:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Zen and the Beats
Well, hi,
everyone:
I'm kind of new
to the group, and have been reading the lastest posts
about law,
poetry, etc., I find it interesting.
But, I was wondering if
we couldn't start
a new sting regarding the Beats and Zen. Perhaps, this
has been
discussed before I was in the group, but I'd like to hear some
input about it.
(If it's old hat, someone e-mail and tell me!)
I first
"found" Zen while reading Salinger, a zillion years ago. I later
picked up on the
Beats and their writings, and found it even more
intriging. Today,
I still love it. Certainly, the Beats were significantly
into Zen or
buddhism, and greatly influenced by it.
Any comments?
Thanks,
Chris
forza@concentric.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 03:03:40 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jun 12, 1996
20:36:54, 'CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>' wrote:
>I first
"found" Zen while reading Salinger, a zillion years ago. I later
>picked up on
the Beats and their writings, and found it even more
>intriging.
Today, I still love it. Certainly, the Beats were significantly
>into Zen or
buddhism, and greatly influenced by it.
>
>Any comments?
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>forza@concentric.net
Zen koan: Where do the ducks in Central Park go in the
wintertime?
Answer: North Beach, San Francisco
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:59:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits
At 03:00 PM
6/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The rub is
certainly expressed best here in Ron's final two questions...
>most
importantly the one that asks the estate's motivation. Phil is pretty
>close to the
whole scene and as it unfolds, he will
no doubt be keeping
>the list up
to date.
>The issues of
what is to be gained and what could very well be lost are
>certainly
ones relevant to this list, eh?
>Perhaps the
time is now to establish a chaotic order or strategy. I doubt
>whether any
of the powers respresented in this legal battle are present in
>this forum...
so I wonder how it is that the 200-plus-change folks here
>might be able
to express what opinion they might have regarding the
>preservation/access
of GN's interview tapes to those people. Are there
>names? Are
there adresses? is this skirmish getting much Lowell radio time?
>Is it present
in The Sun's editorial pages, or letters?
>Jim
>
>Jim it's a
massive undertaking to track down hundreds of peopleand obtain
open permission
slips from them. Can it be done Yes can it be done by us no.
It seems Martha
Mayo would have to help. Good luck. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:17:04 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:36:54 -0400
from <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Chris, why not
give us your thoughts on the nature of Kerouac's use of Zen vs S
alinger's. This might stimulate some good discussion.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:29:27 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:59:45 -0400
from <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
This may just be
a quixotic attempt on my part to look for the silver
lining. Phil is right it could be a massive
undertaking to locate all
the interviewees
and obtain their permission at this point --
particularly so
if Gerry doesn't haveaccurate addresses and phone
numbers. On the other hand, it presents an interesting
opportunity for
scholars (a
number of whom have been critical of Nicosia's research
methods) and
graduate students to do further biographical work onKerouac
-- which might
verify or add a new slant to the view of K presented in
Memory Babe. While the tapes may be sealed, I see no
reason why the
list of
interviewees has to be sealed. Is
it? If not, interested
researchers could
contact the interviewees and talk to them again --
this time making
certain to gainthe proper permissions.
Granted, it's
going over a lot
of old ground again butit might not be a complete waste
of time. And while the researchers are doing their own
interviews, they
might also ask
for a release for the interviews already on file in the
Lowell library.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:47:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Stephen Davis <jd4716@NANDO.NET>
Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.93.960612202329.6219D-100000@viking.cris.com>
> intriging.
Today, I still love it. Certainly, the Beats were significantly
> into Zen or
buddhism, and greatly influenced by it.
No question on
that one. Personally, I've always found
Gary Snyder's
work extremly
facinating; the way in he combined beat ideas/attitudes
with the zen
style of constrait simply amazes me.
Also, I love to
compare his translation
of the Han Shan poems with earlier translation;
its incredible to
me how two diffrent out looks on life can cause cause
completly
diffrent translations of the same work.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:59:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
I agree, i
wish the tapes in the Ginsberg catalog
were more available
to the public.
They should be re-copied too, as many of them are magnetic
reel-to-reel
originals, so old that the track are on each side are mixing (due
to the magic of
magnetism) so you can hear forward and backward interviews at
the same time.
Great stuff in that collection, esp material with Neal Cassady.
Someday maybe...
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:24:59 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats
Though Sam
Beckett might not be considered a beat, I have read of a book called
ZEN AND BECKETT
by Paul Foster which might have some interesting information in
it. Don't know if
it's still in print. has anyone read it? As I said, I have
heard of the book
but have not read it. Any reviews would be appreciated.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:44:17 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats
SPOTS OF TIME
wrote:
>
> Though Sam
Beckett might not be considered a beat, I have read of a book
called
> ZEN AND
BECKETT by Paul Foster which might have some interesting information
in
> it. Don't
know if it's still in print. has anyone read it? As I said, I have
> heard of the
book but have not read it. Any reviews would be appreciated.
>
> Dave B.
Gee, I wonder if
that's the same Paul Foster who was a Prankster back at La
Honda
with Kesey, et
al. in the early 60s. He wrote a memior of his Prankster days
called "The
Answer is Always YES". Anybody know?
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:29:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:59:26 EST from
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Yes, let's hope
that Stanford has more resources to devote to cataloging and pr
eserving AG's
materials than Columbia did.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:36:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats
I wondered about
that too, if it was the same Foster that was the Prankster.
If anyone knows,
they win a big zen prize (nothing).
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:02:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer
<jstauffer@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Zen and the Beats
SPOTS OF TIME
wrote:
>
> I wondered
about that too, if it was the same Foster that was the Prankster.
> If anyone
knows, they win a big zen prize (nothing).
>
> Dave B.
I'd also like to
know, but I doubt it. The last I heard
of the
Prankster Foster
he had given up his enthusiasm for nitrous oxide to go
on the born again
Xtianity--but all things are possible.
Jim Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:00:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: ARCHIVES
I know that
Allen's office has a catalog of at least the recordings and videos
that are in the
(now) Stanford collection. But that's a good question, how
available is it
to the public. I know it is available to any scholoar who needs
to do research,
probably via Stanford's library via Allen's office. But other
than that, I
don't know if any "credentials" are needed or not to have access
to it. Maybe they
can put it on the Internet someday.
Dave B.
Sunny Gambier,
Ohio
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:19:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Zen and the beats
Zen sucks I'd
rather talk about legal babble and petty lawsuits. JUST
KIDDING FOLKS
A really good book
on the subject is "Big Sky Mind: Buddism and the Beat
Generation"
by Carole Tonkinson I got my copy at Barnes and Nobles.
I believe in the
sweetness
of Jesus
And Buddha-
I believe
In St Francis,
Avaloki
Tesvara,
the saints
Of First Century
India A D
And Scholars
Santidevan
And Otherwise
Santayanan
Everywhere
Jack Kerouac-Mexico City
Blues
I have read that
Jack had said he wasn't that serious about his Buddism and
that it was a
just a phase in his life he went through. I can't remember
where I read that
it might have been in an interview somewhere. He was born
and died a
Catholic but isn't it great that he was so influenced by Buddhism
as evidence in
his writings. I wonder how many people first learned of
Buddhism by
reading "The Dharma Bums".
"How many a
man has dated a new era in his life from reading of a
book"-Henry
David Thoreau - from the introduction to "Big Sky Mind" Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:32:34 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Copy of letter to Jens Moellenhoff
>From:
"JENS MOELLENHOFF" <JMOELLEN@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de>
>To:
gmorrone@prolog.net (George Morrone)
>Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:56:28 +1000
>Subject: Re:
German youth movements
>Priority:
normal
>
>
>> Dear
Herr Moellenhoff:
>>
>> Since
you suscribe to the beat lit mailing list, perhaps you could provide
>> some
pointers on how to find more information on German counterparts of the
>>
"Beat" phenomena. In particular, I'm thinking of the
"Wandervogel" people,
>> who wore
rucksacks, played guitars, wore long hair and sandals. I'm trying
>> to
determine to what extend "nachtkultur" (please pardon my spelling if
>> it's not
correct!) or nudism was involved. Also, were many students at the
>> Weimar
Bauhaus involved in the Wandervogel? I'm writing a novel that takes
>> place
partly in the early twenties at the Bauhaus and its pretty difficult
>> to find
DETAILS on what daily life was like. Johannes Itten was a
>>
fascinating person that many of the beats would have felt right at home
>> with.
Thanks in advance.
>>
>> George
Morrone
>>
>
>Dear George
Morrone,
>
>It's so
wonderfull being addressed as "Herr Moellenhoff", but you
>have to know
that I'm just a 21-year-old pale-faced student trying
>to get the
best as possible out of German and American (!) literature.
>
>Frankly said,
I'm not too familiar with the "Wandervogel" or
>"NACKTKULTUR"
(sorry for correcting you) movement. I also got only a
>rough
impression from the "Weimar Bauhaus".
>
>I think, the
movement that could be compared with the Beats
>concerning
their attitude towards society, was the "Edelweiss
>Piraten".
There are some connections between the "Edelweiss Piraten"
>and the
"Wandervogel" movement, but it lasted longer.
>All over
Germany from 1925-1950, there were groups
>of youngsters
loosly organized like pirate gangs, who were sort of
>unconformistic.
They just hung around in public places, sometimes
>were
criminals, wore long hairs, weird, shabby clothes and
>clandestinely
listened to "American nigger (pardon me for that word !)
>music"
like Swing. They were definitly fascinated by American
>(sub-)culture.
>
>Of course
they were suppressed most by the Nazis, because they
>were
"unsocial elements". I know that the leaders of these groups
>often were
arrested after police raids, but whether they were sent to
>Concentration
Camps I don't know.
>
>To find
DETAILS about life in 1920s Germany, I would recommend the
>following
books:
>
>Alfred
Doeblin: "Berlin Alexanderplatz" (filmed by Rainer Werner Fassbinder)
>Erich
Kaestner's poems and novel "Fabian
- the story of a moralist"
>Hermann
Hesse: "Steppenwolf"
>(hasn't there
been this weird hardrock group called "Steppenwolf" ?)
>
>I hope these
details are useful to you. Maybe I'll send you more in a
>few weeks
time.
>Jens
>Jens
Moellenhoff
>
>Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
>Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German Language)
>
>University of
Munich, Germany
>
>*** Language
is a Virus from Outer Space ***
>*** William S. Burroughs ***
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:32:41 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Copy of Letter to Jens Moellenhoff (2)
>From:
"JENS MOELLENHOFF" <JMOELLEN@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de>
>To:
gmorrone@prolog.net (George Morrone)
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:07:00 +1000
>Subject: Re:
German youth movements
>Priority:
normal
>
>
>Dear George,
>
>> >I
think, the movement that could be compared with the Beats
>>
>concerning their attitude towards society, was the "Edelweiss
>>
>Piraten". There are some connections between the "Edelweiss
Piraten"
>> >and
the "Wandervogel" movement, but it lasted longer.
>> >All
over Germany from 1925-1950, there were groups
>> >of
youngsters loosly organized like pirate gangs, who were sort of
>>
>unconformistic.
>>
>> Are
there any sources in English concerning these people? I can't think of
>> a better
time to be an unconformist and alienated than 1925-1950.
>>
>
>I don't know
of any sources in English concerning these people. If
>you take a
really detailed book about German youth culture during
>the first
half of the 20th century you'll surely find something about
>the
"Edelweiss Piraten". I'll see if I can find something abot this
>topic on the
WWW.
>
>> >Of
course they were suppressed most by the Nazis, because they
>> >were
"unsocial elements". I know that the leaders of these groups
>> >often
were arrested after police raids, but whether they were sent to
>>
>Concentration Camps I don't know.
>>
>> My guess
is that they were drafted into the Army. The Nazis would forgive
>> anything
except disloyalty.
>
>I think you
are wrong. If you are a rebel against civil society, then
>what would
you do in the army ? Do you know that cruel word
>"Wehrkraftzersetzung".
I don't know the exact English word, but it
>means that
you destroy the nation's power to "defend" itself. In the
>Nazi context,
where it was used the most, this word becomes a certain
>meaning, that
I surely don't have to explain.
>
>Jens
>Jens
Moellenhoff
>
>Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
>Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German Language)
>
>University of
Munich, Germany
>
>*** Language
is a Virus from Outer Space ***
>*** William S. Burroughs ***
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:27:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: poetry vs lawsuits
At 11:29 AM
6/13/96 EDT, you wrote:
>This may just
be a quixotic attempt on my part to look for the silver
>lining. Phil is right it could be a massive
undertaking to locate all
>the
interviewees and obtain their permission at this point --
>particularly
so if Gerry doesn't haveaccurate addresses and phone
>numbers. On the other hand, it presents an
interesting opportunity for
>scholars (a
number of whom have been critical of Nicosia's research
>methods) and
graduate students to do further biographical work onKerouac
>-- which
might verify or add a new slant to the view of K presented in
>Memory
Babe. While the tapes may be sealed,
I see no reason why the
>list of
interviewees has to be sealed. Is
it? If not, interested
>researchers
could contact the interviewees and talk to them again --
>this time
making certain to gainthe proper permissions.
Granted, it's
>going over a
lot of old ground again but it might not be a complete waste
>of time. And while the researchers are doing their own
interviews, they
>might also
ask for a release for the interviews already on file in the
>Lowell
library.
>
>What a
absolutely fantastic and positive idea!
The list of
interviewees (names only) is on the internet at the U-Lowell
sight but I think
that the effort to contact these people or their relatives
would have to be
done by someone from or represented by the University. To
keep it
professional and orderly and maybe even to keep it legal. What do
you think Bill? I
wonder if Gerry would be willing to undertake such a
task.HMM
interesting. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:36:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Beatitude & Zen
As we know, any
potentially useful, authentic discussion of the beat/zen
connection will
necessarily swerve from authority.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:38:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Hey--
Thinking NOW of
Phil Whalen...
anyone else?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:48:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: zen
------------------
| |
| |
| |
| . |
| |
| |
| |
__________________
Zen connect the dots
"...Farmer,
pointing the way
with a radish..."
---Issa
"I have
nothing to say
and I am saying it
that is poetry..."
---John Cage
"A monk
asked Master Haryo,
'What is the way?'
Haryo said
'An open-eyed man
falling into the
well...'"
---Zen koan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:53:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Buddhism and Jack
I was reading The
Scripture of the Golden Eternity by Kerouac a little
while ago:
Of course there
are several interpretations of various themes-ideas of
the work, but
here is one of the several things I got from it --
It could be
called The Fuck It, Who Cares Scripture --
It seems what
Jack is saying partly is: all this , reality so forth, is
going to be just
a small blip of memory when we look back from the
ever-encroaching-so-that-it's-almost-or-always-here
future we're all
gonna die we're
swimming in fluid yet timeless moments the universe is
dead and
destroyed already a little down the road of time so why the hell
am I worried
about such mundane things in everyday life...
So just chill,
find PEACE, and have fun.
That's what I got
from it, sort of.
"So be
sure." JK
Eric
Any comments,
opposing thoughts please.
By the way, The
Scripture is on the web somewheres. Checkitout if yahavent.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:59:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: aSIDE
aNYONE INTERESTED
IN Zen-like/koan-like/fable-like poems, check out
Stephen Crane, a
Beat who lived about 50 years too soon to fall into the
normal category.
Just a suggestion.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:12:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Rivas <rivas@HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Re: Wandervogel
Dear George and
Jean,
As a supplement
to your =93Wandervogel=94 question and response, you migh=
t=20
find some further
study into the pre-World War One =93Wandervogel=94=20
movement of some
interest. You will definitely see some
parallels=20
between Germany=92s
turn of the century youth movement and the American=20
Beats: deep
dissatisfaction with the hypocritical moral constraints of=20
industrial
society and a turn towards naturalism (including a drop-out=20
mentality), a
fascination with mysticism or an alternative religious=20
model ( in this
case, ancient Germanic mythology as opposed to Zen),=20
philosophical
curiosity, and a nomadic lifestyle (if memory serves, the=20
word
=93Wandervogel=94 means wandering bird in german). Interestingly=20
enough, come 1914
and the start of WW1, a great percentage of the=20
=93Wandervogel=94
quickly enlisted in the German army and were considered=
=20
some of the most
fervent nationalist. I=92ve heard at
least one U.C.=20
Berkeley
historian refer to the pre-war =93Wandervogel=94 as Germany=92s =
turn=20
of the century
hippie movement.
Jim R.
George Morrone
wrote:
>=20
> >From:
"JENS MOELLENHOFF" <JMOELLEN@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de>
> >To:
gmorrone@prolog.net (George Morrone)
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:56:28 +1000
> >Subject:
Re: German youth movements
>
>Priority: normal
> >
> >
> >>
Dear Herr Moellenhoff:
> >>
> >>
Since you suscribe to the beat lit mailing list, perhaps you could p=
rovide
> >>
some pointers on how to find more information on German counterparts=
of the
> >>
"Beat" phenomena. In particular, I'm thinking of the
"Wandervogel" p=
eople,
> >> who
wore rucksacks, played guitars, wore long hair and sandals. I'm =
trying
> >> to
determine to what extend "nachtkultur" (please pardon my spelling=
if
> >>
it's not correct!) or nudism was involved. Also, were many students =
at the
> >>
Weimar Bauhaus involved in the Wandervogel? I'm writing a novel that=
takes
> >>
place partly in the early twenties at the Bauhaus and its pretty dif=
ficult
> >> to
find DETAILS on what daily life was like. Johannes Itten was a
> >>
fascinating person that many of the beats would have felt right at h=
ome
> >>
with. Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >>
George Morrone
> >>
> >
> >Dear
George Morrone,
> >
> >It's so
wonderfull being addressed as "Herr Moellenhoff", but you
> >have to
know that I'm just a 21-year-old pale-faced student trying
> >to get
the best as possible out of German and American (!) literature.
> >
> >Frankly
said, I'm not too familiar with the "Wandervogel" or
>
>"NACKTKULTUR" (sorry for correcting you) movement. I also got
only a
> >rough
impression from the "Weimar Bauhaus".
> >
> >I think,
the movement that could be compared with the Beats
>
>concerning their attitude towards society, was the "Edelweiss
>
>Piraten". There are some connections between the "Edelweiss
Piraten"
> >and the
"Wandervogel" movement, but it lasted longer.
> >All over
Germany from 1925-1950, there were groups
> >of
youngsters loosly organized like pirate gangs, who were sort of
>
>unconformistic. They just hung around in public places, sometimes
> >were
criminals, wore long hairs, weird, shabby clothes and
>
>clandestinely listened to "American nigger (pardon me for that word !)
>
>music" like Swing. They were definitly fascinated by American
>
>(sub-)culture.
> >
> >Of
course they were suppressed most by the Nazis, because they
> >were
"unsocial elements". I know that the leaders of these groups
> >often
were arrested after police raids, but whether they were sent to
>
>Concentration Camps I don't know.
> >
> >To find
DETAILS about life in 1920s Germany, I would recommend the
>
>following books:
> >
> >Alfred
Doeblin: "Berlin Alexanderplatz" (filmed by Rainer Werner Fassb=
inder)
> >Erich
Kaestner's poems and novel "Fabian
- the story of a moralist"
> >Hermann
Hesse: "Steppenwolf"
> >(hasn't
there been this weird hardrock group called "Steppenwolf" ?)
> >
> >I hope
these details are useful to you. Maybe I'll send you more in a
> >few
weeks time.
> >Jens
> >Jens
Moellenhoff
> >
>
>Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
>
>Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/ (German Language)
> >
>
>University of Munich, Germany
> >
> >***
Language is a Virus from Outer Space ***
> >*** William S. Burroughs ***
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:26:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jim Rivas <rivas@HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Allen G
Does anybody know
if A.G. still teaching at the City Unviersity of New
York. If so, what
courses (Graduate? Undergrad?)
Jim R.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:27:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: nappodd2
<nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Stephen Crane
>aNYONE
INTERESTED IN Zen-like/koan-like/fable-like poems, check out
>Stephen
Crane, a Beat who lived about 50 years too soon to fall into the
>normal
category. Just a suggestion.
Yes, I agree! His collection "The
Black Riders" has many short poems
that suggest
GREAT things with economy and understatement.
Crane refused to
call his poems
"poems", too (a bit like Kerouac and his "hymns" perhaps?).
Crane called them
"lines". His short life reads
very Beat, too: traveled
constantly,
disputes with publishers, hungered for experience.
Based on what I've read, I would have
to agree that Kerouac was
mostly a dabbler
in Zen, particularly during his association with Snyder.
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 02:48:01 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Hey--
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jun 13, 1996
19:38:05, 'The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>' wrote:
>Thinking NOW
of Phil Whalen...
>anyone else?
"On Bear's
Head" got me through probably the worst year of my life. Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:21:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tim Donahue <Tim1461@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Lit. Symposium
I seem to have
joined this listserve in the middle of a lawsuit discussion.
Nevertheless, I offer this info from a flyer I
received:
Call for Papers:
Beat Lit.
Symposium 1996
University of
Massachusetts - Lowell
Friday, October
4, 1996
Submissions
welcome on:
* Kerouac's Lowell novells
* Portrayals of race, gender, sexuality in
Kerouac's
fiction
* Beat poets, especiaslly Ginsberg, Corso,
Snyder
* Kerouac's "spontaneous prose"
... open to other topics as
well
Send your
one-page proposal by July 31 to:
Prof. Hilary
Holladay
English
Department
U. Mass. Lowell
Lowell, MA 01845
holladayh@woods.uml.edu
The symposium
will be held in conjunction with
"Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!" October 3 - 6,
a city-wide
festival commemorating the writings of Lowell native Jack Kerouac
I hope it's of
interest.
Tim
Donahue
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 07:52:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hey--
There is a new
book out by Phil Whalen, have not seen it out yet (at least in
my area which is
no surprise).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:06:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: Zen and the beats
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.uucp>
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19960613231945.00682740@pop.tiac.net>
On Thu, 13 Jun
1996, Phil Chaput wrote:
> I believe in
the sweetness
> of Jesus
> And Buddha-
> I believe
> In St
Francis,
> Avaloki
> Tesvara,
> the saints
> Of First
Century
> India A D
> And Scholars
> Santidevan
> And
Otherwise
> Santayanan
> Everywhere
> Jack Kerouac-Mexico City
Blues
>
> I have read
that Jack had said he wasn't that serious about his Buddism and
> that it was
a just a phase in his life he went through. I can't remember
> where I read
that it might have been in an interview somewhere. He was born
> and died a Catholic
but isn't it great that he was so influenced by Buddhism
> as evidence
in his writings. I wonder how many people first learned of
> Buddhism by
reading "The Dharma Bums".
>
> "How
many a man has dated a new era in his life from reading of a
> book"-Henry
David Thoreau - from the introduction to "Big Sky Mind" Phil
>
I definetly
did...
But there are
still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
east culture
thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
Anyone can
recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
greetings from
germany
moritz
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:15:27 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Allen G
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:26:00 -0700
from <rivas@HOOKED.NET>
Allen Ginsberg
teaches at Brooklyn College. This fall
he will be teaching an u
ndergraduate
seminar on William Blake as well as his tutorials and coursework i
n our MFA
creative writing program.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:14:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Wandervogel and Edelweiss Piraten
In-Reply-To: <v01530501ade6613d4293@[204.186.21.23]>
Hi!
I don't know how
much it will be really related to your novel or the
characters in it,
since I've never heard of the Wandervogel or Edelweiss
Piraten, but the
latter group sounds somewhat like a group of students
who're the center
of the movie "Swing Kids".
It's pretty readily
availiable in the
US, but I don't know about overseas.
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:20:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: aSIDE
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.960613195557.17591B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
Yes! I've read a couple of poems by him and
they're fantastic! Here are
two of my
favorites:
Many Workmen
Many Workmen
Built a huge ball
of masonry
Upon a
mountaintop.
Then they went to
the vaelly below,
And turned to
behold their work.
"It is
grand," they said;
They loved the
thing.
Of a sudden, it
moved:
It came upon them
swiftly;
It crushed them
all to blood.
But some had
opportunity to squeal.
the next:
A Man Said to the
Universe
A man said to the
universe:
"Sir, I
exsit!"
"However,"
replied the universe,
"The fact
has not created in me
A sense of
obligation."
jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
On Thu, 13 Jun
1996, Robert H. Sapp wrote:
> aNYONE
INTERESTED IN Zen-like/koan-like/fable-like poems, check out
> Stephen
Crane, a Beat who lived about 50 years too soon to fall into the
> normal
category. Just a suggestion.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:20:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Trevor D. Smith"
<V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: Wandervo(e)gel
Being also
interested in German lit. and its relation
to the Beats, I
am intrigued with this latest "spin" on
things (i.e. the
"Wandervoegel").
To this point and
to the time-frame indicated, I might
suggest having a
look at Hermann Hesse's short novel,
_Knulp_
(1915). This is the story of a
vagabond/artist
and his youth,
travels, and ultimately, his death. May
fit well into
this topic (and it's an compelling work).
Trevor Smith
SUNY at Buffalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:23:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: nappodd2
<nappodd2@ALPHA.SHIANET.ORG>
Subject: Zen books
>But there are
still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
>east culture
thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
>Anyone can
recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
I'm no expert on the subject, but I can
offer some suggestions.
First, a lot of
people refer to what the Beats were involved with as
"Buddhism"--which
is pretty general. What interested
writers like Gary
Snyder was
"Ch'an Buddhism", which became "Zen Buddhism" when it made
it to
feudal Japan in
the 12th century. Ch'an--which means
"mediation"--developed
in southern China
during the Tang dynasty. This is the
school of sudden
enlightenment,
which featured much discipline, koans, and frequent physical
beating. But it was always a good natured and
rewarding beating.
The best book I have read about the
subject is "Zen Buddhism" (N.Y.:
Anchor) by D.T.
Suzuki. He's more than a scholar--he's
lived it. A very
entertaining (and
short) book about a skeptical German academic who travels
to Japan and
learns archery from Zen masters is "Zen and the Art of Archery"
(N.Y.: Pantheon)
by Eugen Herrigel. The more I think
about it, that book is
a must read. The most famous popular book about Zen is by
Christmas
Humphreys (sounds
like one of Kerouac's names), but the title escapes me.
Adios
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 03:59:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tom Moody
<tmoody@WILEY.CSUSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zen books
>>But there
are still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
>>east
culture thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
>>Anyone
can recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
>
>If it makes
any sense to talk about at "authority" on Zen, it would be D>T>
Suzuki.
The Dutch mystery
writer Janwillem vandewetering also wrote two wonderful
accounts of his
experiences first in a Japanese Zen monastery and then in an
American one.
"A Glimpse of Nothingness" and "The Empty Mirror" they're
called.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:32:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Song for Nobody: Thomas Merton, Zen,
& The Beats
Remember Thomas
Merton when checking into Zen & The Beats. First thing
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti asked when I brought him to Louisville for few days was
will you take me
to visit Merton's grave at Abbey of Gethsemani. Merton spent
last night of his
life in USA at Ferlinghetti's in California. Merton
published The
Beats (see Monk's Pond) plus immersed himself in Zen. Some
conspiracy
theorists believe his mysterious death (Bangkok, Thailand 1968. yr
before Jack's)
had something to do with his religious politics of stepping
outside the
epistemological boundaries of Catholicism & his Trappist vows. He
became friends
with His Holiness The Dalai Lama (who's doing one week retreat
this summer at
Merton's Hermitage), wrote extensively on Buddhism (incl Zen
brand), & is
as responsible as anyone for building bridge between orient &
occident,
Buddhism & Christianity. Besides The Seven Storey Mountain
(Merton's
autobiography) other books of interest are: Zen and the Birds of
Appetite, Mystics
and Zen Masters, The Asian Journal, Thomas Merton on Peace,
The Way of Chuang
Tzu, plus Ron Seitz' Song For Nobody: A Memory Vision of
Thomas Merton
(most inside personal view of Merton to date), plus new
7-volume journals
of Thomas Merton (1st 3 are out. 1 issued every 6 months by
Harper Collins),
plus White Fields Press Published in Heaven Poster Series'
Thomas Merton's
The Harmonies of Excess & Ron Seitz' Thomas Merton plus
upcoming Ron
Seitz' Upon First Meeting Thomas Merton. Thanks! Ron Whitehead
6/14/96
7:27PM P.S. Plus for new Beat
publication watch for August
issue of TRIBE
magazine (release July 31st) I'm Guest Editor of. Cover to
cover Beat (&
otherr) material. I just completed long interview with William
S. Burroughs
which will be featured along with new photos of Burroughs (front
cover &
inside) by John Blumb (his photographer)
(Neil Hennessey
recently did interview with Burroughs I'm hoping to publish
somewhere in
White Fields Press Series in near future). Issue will also
include new work
(interviews, poems, photos) on/by Diane di Prima, Lawrence
Ferlinghetti,
Robert Creeley, David Amram, Ed Sanders, & others. Going back
to New Orleans on
18th for few days to wrap issue up & delive to printer.
I'll give more
updated information at end of month.
Thanks! Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:30:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re:
Zen books
At 03:59 AM
6/15/96 -0700, you wrote:
>>>But
there are still a lot of questions about this _mysterious unknown
>>>east
culture thing_ called buddhism holding my mind.
>>>Anyone
can recommand a good book on the subject itself ?
>>
>>If it
makes any sense to talk about at "authority" on Zen, it would be
D>T>
>Suzuki.
>The Dutch
mystery writer Janwillem vandewetering also wrote two wonderful
>accounts of
his experiences first in a Japanese Zen monastery and then in an
>American one.
"A Glimpse of Nothingness" and "The Empty Mirror" they're
>called.
>
From Phil C.
>D.T. Zuzuki
writes---
Among the most
remarkable features characterizing Zen we find these:
spirituality,
directness of expression, disregard of form or
conventionalism,
and frequently an almost wanton delight in going astray
from
respectability.- D.T. Suzuki
Boy does that
sound like Jack K. or what? Some cool Zen sayings>>>
When a monk
asked, " what is the Buddha?" Ummon (863-949) replied,"A shit
wiping stick."
I don't know. I
don't care. And it doesn't make any difference.-Jack Kerouac
Sacred cows make
great hamburgers- Robert Reisner
The less effort,
the faster and more powerful you will be.- Bruce Lee
Zen is like
looking for the specticles that are sitting on your nose- Zen saying
How describe the
delicate thing that happens when a brilliant insect alights
on a flower?
Words, with their weight, fall upon the picture like birds of
prey.- Jules
Renard but Jack Kerouac turned the hawk
into a dove- Phil
Let's hear your
best Zen
sayings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 22:01:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Buddhism and Jack (fwd)
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 13 Jun
1996 19:53:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert H.
Sapp <rhs4@crystal.palace.net>
To:
beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Subject: Buddhism
and Jack
I was reading The
Scripture of the Golden Eternity by Kerouac a little
while ago:
Of course there
are several interpretations of various themes-ideas of
the work, but
here is one of the several things I got from it --
It could be
called The Fuck It, Who Cares Scripture --
It seems what
Jack is saying partly is: all this , reality so forth, is
going to be just
a small blip of memory when we look back from the
ever-encroaching-so-that-it's-almost-or-always-here
future we're all
gonna die we're
swimming in fluid yet timeless moments the universe is
dead and
destroyed already a little down the road of time so why the hell
am I worried about
such mundane things in everyday life...
So just chill,
find PEACE, and have fun.
That's what I got
from it, sort of.
"So be
sure." JK
Eric
Any comments,
opposing thoughts please.
By the way, The
Scripture is on the web somewheres. Checkitout if yahavent.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:35:12 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Buddhism and Jack (fwd)
The
<<Buddhist Bible>> is a collection of Buddhist Scriptures which
served
as a primary
resource for the beats. It contains the Diamond Sutra which
Jack read and
memorized extensively. This wonderful anthology is in print
again and
available on the shelf at mainstream bookstores. Scripture of
the Golden
Eternity can sound like a bunch of gobbelety gook until one
begins to
understand Buddhist teachings. It then becomes a tribute to
Jack's genius.
It's not hard to see why some consider Jack a major figure
in American
Buddhism.
You can also
check out "Tricycle" magazine which recently serialized
Jack's Version of
Siddharta. If Tricycle is the East Coast versions,
"Shambhala
Sun" is the West Coast magazine of American Buddhism and has
more pictures of
Gary Snyder. Both are excellent and worth checking out.
Gee. Hope I'm not
sounding too pompous. Don't mean to be
Mark Hemenway
Dharma beat
magazine
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:22:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Douglas Dusseau
<ddusseau@IN.NET>
Subject: Literary Kicks
I noticed that
Wired listed Levi's Literary Kicks in the net surf of the
July issue
describing it as "a beautifully assembled shrine dedicated to all
people, places
and things beat." Good to see Levi
receive this well
deserved plug!!
Douglas M Dusseau
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:02:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Janwillem van de Wetering
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19960615003053.006742a4@pop.tiac.net> from "Phil
Chaput"
at Jun 14, 96 08:30:53 pm
J.d.v.W.'s
fiction also has a lot of Buddhist philosophy,which may seem
strange in light
of the fact that he writes a series based upon the
exploits of 2
cops and their boss who work for the Amsterdam police.
(J.d.v.W. was
also a cop,in addition to having lived in/written of
living in a
Buddhist monastery)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:31:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: FBI Files on Kerouac, Ginsberg & Co.
?
It strikes me as
very likely that J. Edgar Hoover (for whom Kerouac &
Ginsberg were
probably his worst nightmares!) had the FBI investigate them.
Has anyone
requested the files (if they exist) from the FBI (under the
freedom of
information act) or the National Archives? It would make pretty
interesting
reading!
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:31:12 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: An excellent book on Zen
Check out
"Questions to a Zen Master" by Taisen Deshimaru:
Firewood becomes
ashes; the ashes cannot become firewood again and the
firewood cannot
see it's own ashes.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:06:13 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: Zen and the beats
Phil wrote:
>Zen sucks I'd
rather talk about legal babble and petty lawsuits. JUST
>KIDDING FOLKS
But seriously,
... I was wondering: this list is being archived somewhere,
right? Maybe
someday some enterprising editor will want to publish some of
this stuff...
Will they have to get permission from the people who submit
letters? Or are
the e-mail contributions in the public domain? Anyway, I
hereby place my
own modest contributions in the public domain.
>I have read
that Jack had said he wasn't that serious about his Buddism and
>that it was a
just a phase in his life he went through. I can't remember
>where I read
that it might have been in an interview somewhere.
To me, Zen,
Taoism and Buddhism are disciplines, and as we know, Jack, as
good a writer as
he was, never took well to discipline. I can't imagine him
staying in one
place long enough to acquire any systematic or focused
doctrine or
practice. Discipline and Beat sensibility CAN go together,
though. Consider
Gary Snyder. Speaking of whom, what's the best Snyder bio
other than
"Dimensions of a Life?" (Which I've already read.)
>He was born
>and died a
Catholic but isn't it great that he was so influenced by Buddhism
>as evidence
in his writings. I wonder how many people first learned of
>Buddhism by
reading "The Dharma Bums".
I first read D.
T. Suzuki's "Introduction to Zen Buddhism," then stuff by
Alan Watts &
Aldous Huxley (AW, AH, and Timothy Leary were my "holy
trinity" in
the late sixties!) Suzuki's book was like a flash of lightning
on a late, humid
summer afternoon. Then came Hermann Hesse. I first read
"The Dharma
Bums" at college in the early seventies. (The character I liked
best was Japhy
Ryder.)
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:06:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: Buddhism and Jack
>I was reading
The Scripture of the Golden Eternity by Kerouac a little
>while ago:
>Of course
there are several interpretations of various themes-ideas of
>the work, but
here is one of the several things I got from it --
>It could be
called The Fuck It, Who Cares Scripture --
We westerners
often confuse Nirvana, Satori, etc. with passivity and
negativity. IF
this was Jack's interpretation of Eastern religion (and I
think it was, but
haven't read enough to be sure) he was wrong about that
aspect of it. Was
Jack something of a Nihilist? and did he see in Buddhism
justification for
his renunciation? I guess fundamentally, the question I
would like to ask
is: how did Jack construct his identity? How did he
define himself?
>It seems what
Jack is saying partly is: all this , reality so forth, is
>going to be
just a small blip of memory when we look back from the
>ever-encroaching-so-that-it's-almost-or-always-here
future we're all
>gonna die
we're swimming in fluid yet timeless moments the universe is
>dead and
destroyed already a little down the road of time so why the hell
>am I worried
about such mundane things in everyday life...
>So just
chill, find PEACE, and have fun.
Even if all that
is true, it's no excuse not to care for each other, live a
stable life,
marry and raise children (if that's what you want,) develop
oneself as a
writer; work for human rights. Much of what Jack criticized
WAS wrong. Still,
we can chill, find peace, have fun, and also study and
work.
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:02:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Fave Zen Quote
Hi, Beats!
"Go to bed
now, quickly. Quickly and slowly."
J.D. Salinger
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:27:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: oriental vs occidental
Hello! What does
it mean to say Taoism Buddhism Zen are disciplines?
Discipline as in
way of life? Tao means The Way. Buddha means fully
enlightened one
from root buddh to wake up. Zen (ch'an in Chinese, dhyana in
Sanskrit) means
meditation (school of Mahayana Buddhism emphasizes meditation
as its primary
practice). Questions. Words. No answers. How translate
definitions into
understanding? And do different cultures understand
experience
differently? Is eastern oriental mind being different than western
occidental mind
being? Kerouac, in Scattered Poems (City Lights, Pocket Poet
Series #28),
gives some personal insight when he says "The 'Haiku' was
invented and
developed over hundreds of years in Japan to be a complete poem
in seventeen
syllables and to pack in a whole vision of life in three short
lines. A 'Western
Haiku' need not concern itself with the seventeen syllables
since Western
languages cannot adapt themselves to the fluid syllabillic
Japanese. I
propose that the 'Western Haiku' simply say a lot in three short
lines in any
Western language. Above all, a Haiku must be very simple and
free of all
poetic trickery and make a little picture and yet be as airy and
graceful as a
Vivaldi Pastorella."
Do you have an
affinity to Taoism Buddhism Zen? Do you select what works best
for you and apply
it to your own life your own experience your own
understanding? Do
you consider yourself to be disciplined but disciplined in
your own way
rather than a prescribed traditional way? Didn't Kerouac (&
other poet
mystics) take from the world what worked best for him & allow that
new knowledge to
wed his own inner experience & from that consummated inner
relationship gave
birth to new forms of expression of being of understanding.
Kerouac revealed,
via personal choice & necessity, that the fresh wind of
creative
imagination & expression (holy spirit?) breathed into the best of
disciplines can
break arbitrary bonds while allowing a freer new expression
of ancient truth
plus lead to a less stressed life (The Dalai Lama told me
"their's
nothing wrong with knowing happiness"). And just because his life
ended the way it
did doesn't mean he didn't know the AH & AHA time & time
again before the
final long dark slide.
Zen is as much no
discipline as it is discipline. Zen is complete immersion
into life,
complete engagement in being, in being self or in being other.
Zen is letting go
completely, living fully in spontaneous now, living without
safety net,
taking holy unholy risks. Zen discipline also enables focus,
focus to point of
being able to exit self & enter other whatever whoever
other might be so
one can experience Zen from many (infinite?) perspectives.
Other words that
relate to (& can lead to) this experience are sympathy,
empathy (ability
to be an empath, to enter another at least thru imagination
& experience
world thru their eyes), compassion, negative capability. In Zen
All-Connectedness
is recognized.
Another response
to what Zen is =
In Kentucky
I
pass fast
on one lane
bridges
Ron Whitehead
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 09:34:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Seconding George's Motion
Hi, fellow Beats:
I agree with
George, it would be very interesting indeed to see what ole
J.Edgar might
have had on Jack, Ginsberg and others!
If memory serves me,
and as the years
pass, it doesn't always to that; I believe Ginsberg did
protest the
war. And in general, the whole Beat
lifestyle would have
certainly been a
subject of immense curiosity for Hoover. If anyone can
get info, I would
really appreciate reading about it.
Also, as the
mother of three Generation X'ers, I'd like to pose a question
to our younger
Beats out there. I find this really fascinating, and I hope
the Boomer Beats
will indulge me.<g> My teenagers
have told me that hands
down, Kurt
Cobain, was into Zen very deeply. They, in fact, had me listen
to some of his
lyrics, and indeed, there are some references, some very
blatant ones such
as, "come as you are, as you were," etc. Needless, to
say, this is
something that had passed me by. I'd be interested in any
comments from any
of you "younger cats" out there:)) You can write me
personally, if
you would prefer to do so, but please, I'm posing this
legitimately for
my kids, no flames. Thanks.
Thanks,
Chris
forza@concentric.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 10:13:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: come as you are, as you were
Hello! You can
know Zen be Zen without ever knowing the word Zen or its
definition or
practicing the discipline in Zen monastery. Many people are Zen
without knowing
it officially. Icognito
libido
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 12:07:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ed Hertzog <exh112@PSU.EDU>
Subject: Cobain and Zen
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
>I agree with
George, it would be very interesting indeed to see what ole
>J.Edgar might
have had on Jack, Ginsberg and others
You might want to
check out <http://parascope.infozone.com/request.html>.
You can use this
to generate a info request for government files on
individuals as is
allowed by the Freedom of Information Act.
>Also, as the
mother of three Generation X'ers, I'd like to pose a question
>to our
younger Beats out there. I find this really fascinating, and I hope
>the Boomer
Beats will indulge me.<g> My
teenagers have told me that hands
>down, Kurt
Cobain, was into Zen very deeply.
A lot of people
say they are really into Zen or Buddhism but have no clue. I
really can't
answer for you whether or not Cobain's Zen was legit or not.
What I can tell
you that his wife had some of his ashes sent to a Buddhist
temple in Tibet
-- or at least that's the rumor I've heard.
E Hertzog
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:12:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Kiriazis <kir@HAMPTONS.COM>
Subject: Jackson Pollock and the Beat Generation
If anyone is
planning to be in the East Hampton, NY area in mid July, there
is an interesting
lecture scheduled.
The
Pollock-Krasner House and Study Center (Jackson Pollock's and Lee
Krasner's house
and studio) has seven lectures planned for their summer
series, dealing
with various aspects of contempory art.
The first,
scheduled for 14
July, is "Jackson Pollock and the Beat Generation", given
by Ellen G.
Landau from Case Western Reserve University.
The program begins
at 5 pm and costs
$12. Seating is very limited. If you want more
information, the
phone number of the Center is 516-324-4929.
Bill Kiriazis
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:14:59 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: oriental vs occidental
>Hello! What
does it mean to say Taoism Buddhism Zen are disciplines?
>Discipline as
in way of life?
Yes. Consider the
following two quotes from John Blofeld's excellent book:
"'Immortality'
is the term by which Taoists at at every level of
understanding
designate their goal..." p. 15
"Attainment
of immortality means successful cultivation of the Way.
Cultivation of
the way is a lifelong process of refinement of the adept's
consciousness.
Bringing to bear his fully integrated powers of body and
mind, he
gradually discovers his real self - which in a sense is no-self."
p. 40 John
Blofeld
Taoism: The Road
to Immortality
>Questions.
Words. No answers. How translate
>definitions
into understanding? And do different cultures understand
>experience
differently? Is eastern oriental mind being different than western
>occidental
mind being?
"The secret
of Zen is the practice of zazen. Zazen is difficult, I know.
But, practiced
daily, it is a very effective way of expanding consciousness
and developing
intuition. Zazen releases and mobilizes energy; it is also
the posture of
awakening." p xiii
Taisen Deshimaru,
Questions to a Zen Master
>Do you have
an affinity to Taoism Buddhism Zen?
It's hard to
explain, but when I read what people like D. T. Suzuki or John
Blofeld write I
respond; it strikes a chord.
>Do you select
what works best
>for you and
apply it to your own life your own experience your own
>understanding?
I practice Zazen;
not as often as I should; but when I do I know what
Taisen Deshimaru
is talking about.
>Do you
consider yourself to be disciplined but disciplined in
>your own way
rather than a prescribed traditional way?
Just living a
settled life with job, wife, kids, bills to pay takes a
considerable
amount of discipline! I've lived the way Kerouac & Co. did
back in the early
seventies when I got out of the Navy but recognized how
destructive it
was.
>Didn't
Kerouac (&
>other poet
mystics) take from the world what worked best for him & allow that
>new knowledge
to wed his own inner experience & from that consummated inner
>relationship
gave birth to new forms of expression of being of understanding.
What Kerouac did
in his life didn't work for him! He was miserable and had
constantly to kill
the pain with alcohol! He was not happy, gave up on
life, and thought
he found justification for his renunciation in Buddhism.
I could make my
point by contrasting Kerouac and Gary Snyder. Don't think
I'm condemning
Jack, though. He dealt with his problems as best he could,
and made some bad
choices, but he was a great writer and I respect that.
>Kerouac
revealed, via personal choice & necessity, that the fresh wind of
>creative
imagination & expression (holy spirit?) breathed into the best of
>disciplines
can break arbitrary bonds while allowing a freer new expression
>of ancient
truth plus lead to a less stressed life (The Dalai Lama told me
>"their's
nothing wrong with knowing happiness").
True, but
Kerouac's life was highly stressful.
>And just
because his life
>ended the way
it did doesn't mean he didn't know the AH & AHA time & time
>again before
the final long dark slide.
His life ending
the way it did was the logical outcome of the choices he
made. He was
right about a great many things and I wish he had more respect
for himself and
his ability. I also wish he were capable of earning a
living apart from
his writing: a trade such as carpentry or cooking cab
driving would
have benefited his writing.
>Zen is as
much no discipline as it is discipline. Zen is complete immersion
>into life,
complete engagement in being, in being self or in being other.
>Zen is
letting go completely, living fully in spontaneous now, living without
>safety net,
taking holy unholy risks. Zen discipline also enables focus,
>focus to
point of being able to exit self & enter other whatever whoever
>other might
be so one can experience Zen from many (infinite?) perspectives.
Most of the time,
Kerouac was not focused, Snyder was!
>Other words
that relate to (& can lead to) this experience are sympathy,
>empathy
(ability to be an empath, to enter another at least thru imagination
>&
experience world thru their eyes), compassion, negative capability. In Zen
>All-Connectedness
is recognized.
>Another
response to what Zen is =
>
All that may be
true; it's still no excuse for laziness, passivity,
self-destructiveness,
nihilism, alcoholism, drug abuse.
>
"... it may
be thought that the critics are justified in charging Zen with
advocating a
philosophy of pure negation, but nothing is so far from
Zen...Mere
negation is not the spirit of Zen..." p. 51
"Apparently
Zen negates, but it is always holding up before us something
which indeed lies
right before our own eyes; and if we do not pick it up by
ourselves, it is
our own fault. Most people, whose mental vision is
darkened by the
clouds of ignorance, pass it by and refuse to look at it.
To them Zen is,
indeed, nihilism, just because they do not see it." p. 52
D. T. Suzuki Introduction
to Zen Buddhism
George
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:07:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: oriental vs occidental II
Hello! Much of
George's responsive is relative to his own experience. Just
becaus you
experience something as true doesn't mean it's true for anyone
else. Is living a
life with job, wife, kids, bills a settled & therefore
disciplined way
of living? Perhaps it is for you, for some. For others it may
be just the
opposite. You lived the way Kerouac & Co. did but recognized how
destructive it
was. Fine. Destructive for you Destructive for them. Perhaps.
Does that negate
Kerouac & Co. in any way? Perhaps from your own experience &
point of view but
where does that leave us leave you? What is truth? Do you
know? We move forward
by the aid of symbols & we change those symbols as we
move forward. Of
what real profit is it to us, to deprive life of all its
dreams, of all
its beautiful mysticism and of all its lies (thank you K.H.)?
What do you mean
What Kerouac did in his life didn't work for him. With
suffering comes
humility, and with it, in the end wisdom (thank you J.S.).
Kerouac suffered
much. He caused suffering (i.e. his daughter Jan). But what
he did in his
life worked for him in as many ways as it didn't. His creative
work is some of
the best in the history of world literature (despite highbrow
academic
criticism). Pain and joy, failure and succes are different sides of
same coin called
human nature human being. To say this is good that is bad
you succeeded because
of this you failed because of that is reductive & does
not allow full
emotional mental physical spiritual depth of being human. We
learn to walk but
fall time & time again. We don't give up but keep getting
up until we walk.
As adults for some reason we allow society to convince us
that if we fall
we fail. That's a lie I refuse to believe. Beckett said To be
an artist is to
fail as no other dare fail.
To fail is to
live to be human. Breathe deep of failure of success of life.
Yes Kerouac's
life was stressful. And through that stress look at the
beautiful gems he
created gifts he gave to us which help us endure the pain
the stress the
suffering inherent in life.
Judge not that ye
be not judged: Even if the end of Jack's life was the
logical (logic?)
outcome of the choices he made so what? Does that logical
outcome negate
the beautiful gifts, created in the midst of deep pain, he
bestowed granted
to us & to those who follow? Yes wouldn't it be great if he
had more
self-esteem? Wouldn't it be great if we all did. But if a frog had
wings it wouldn't
bump its ass. We make the most of what we have & hopefully,
if we ever learn
anything, we do it without condemning others or thinking
feeling that
we're better than anyone simply because we live or think a
certain way
(prescribed or not). Perhaps carpentry cooking or cab driving
would have
benefited his writing. Perhaps not. Who are we to say?
Most of the time
Kerouac was not focused? Excuse me but no one, no one could
have written like
Kerouac without being focused like few have been focused in
history of human
race. To compare to grade Kerouac & Snyder on levels of
focus &
ability is mistake. They are different (but connected) writers
different human
beings.
no excuse for
laziness, passivity, self-destructiveness, nihilism alcoholism
drug abuse.
to sit in
judgment over any one other than self is mistake. who can know what
pain, sorrow, joy
any other human being experiences. What difference does it
make what good
does it do to condemn for what you see or believe is wrong?
Why not either
let the other live her or his own life, learning through
experience, and
if anything offer a helping hand when you can. Who knows what
lessons a human
being learns by being lazy, passive, self-destructive,
nihilist,
alcoholic, drug abuser? tolerance may be the greatest love. Allow
each individual
to learn to grow on their own terms rather than terms you or
society or
tradition prescribes. Always offer to help if the other person
asks or if you
think your hand might ease their pain their burden. You, me,
society cannot
teach anyone anything. People learn through experience, they
learn when they
are ready to learn & learning only takes place deep inside in
the gonads the
solar plexus the gut the heart.
I agree that
engagement is The Way but what does it mean to be engaged.
Engagement is
different for every person.
In Kentucky the heart of poetry (word
symbol & definition) is best
represented as
real experience, in other words Poetry is Life, Life is Poetry
as in actually
holding your naked newborn baby to drink from your breasts as
in planting the
first seeds of spring into the freshly ploughed eartas in
kissing your
dying mother your just dead father on the forehead and saying
goodbye I Love
You. Ron Whitehead 6/16/96
4:07PM
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:40:21 -0400
Reply-To: CMJ <Forza@cris.com>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Consoling Myself About Jack
Hi, again:
As you can see, I
have absolutely nothing better to do today:) But this
Zen thing is very
interesting to me.
I've dabbled a
bit in Zen, and do not in the very least, consider myself
qualified at all
to speak with any authority, whatsoever. And I would ask
anyone from the
group to "enlighten" me on anything I might say.
>From what I
think I know, the religion says that man goes through seven
lives before
attaining complete enlightenment. An example of this, in
literature would
be J.D. Salinger's "Seymour Glass." From what I remember
from my college
years, (years ago) - was that the character of Seymour,
was in his
"last life," and killed himself because he knew he was. He had
attatined
everything he possibly could have on this earth. He was a "holy
man," the
buddha of the whole Glass family. Seymour or "See-More," saw
more, knew more,
etc.
With George
talking about Jack's self-destructive ways, I just had to
agree with him
wholeheartedly, but I also would like to say, that I feel
maybe Jack was a
lot like "Seymour." I console myself about many great
artists whom I
have admired in the way I admire Jack, by simply telling
myself,
"well, he was probably in his last life." There was simply no more
for him to say or
do. I don't think Jack could have done anything
different than he
did, job-wise or otherwise. Highly creative people do
not seem to be
happy with anything else, but their great love of what they
do.
I have a real
on-going argument with someone about this very thing in
another group I'm
in. This person suggests to me that artistic people are
basically
"manic-depressive" or "mad genuises" and take to a
self-destructive
lifestyle when their creativity is down. My whole point
is, that they
wouldn't be so self-destructive if they hadn't experienced
the lives they
had, but they also would not be as creative as they are.
Why do they all
seem to know so much? Why do they all seem to "see-more"
than others do?
I enjoyed
George's telling us he, "went the way of Jack & Co. in the early
70's." Hey,
George, so did I, and I'm a woman <g>.(Not many people are
willing to admit
it, though, but what the hell?) It was great while it
lasted. But
sooner or later, as George so rightly points out; it's time
for marriage,
kids, jobs and paying the bills. But I truly believe for
people such as
Jack, this is not a viable option, there is much more to be
done. So I do
console myself by thinking Jack went the way of Zen.
As I've said, I'm
not qualifed on any level to really speak to this
subject at all. I
am, in fact, just an ole romantic, ex-English lit major,
who prefers to
think about Jack and others we've lost so prematurely, in
this fashion. At
least it is a consolation to me:))
Thanks for your
time,
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:27:59 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dolores Neese <dolores@CRL.COM>
Subject: Re: Consoling Myself About Jack
Comments: To: CMJ
<Forza@CRIS.COM>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@listserv.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.93.960616155846.18380A-100000@galileo.cris.com>
Well, I'm very,
very grateful for the many other creative people on this
planet who are
brilliant, sane, and healthy, who continue to produce
extraordinary
writing, art, film, dance. Some may have had humble
beginnings, or
had a rough life, but they got through it, and we are all
the better for
it. May they live long and prosper!
D.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 18:55:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: FBI Files on Kerouac, Ginsberg &
Co. ?
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:31:08 -0600
from
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Yes, I know AG
has requested his FBI files under the freedom of
Information
Act. There was also a book published
several years ago
which included
transcripts of FBI files on various writers including
Ginsberg and
Hemingway. I don't remember the
title. Maybe someone can
help me out. I'll look for it. If I find it, I'll post it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:21:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Women beats
Noticed this post
thought anyone who hasn't seen it would find it interesting.
This fall, Conari
Press is publishing "Women of the Beat Generation: The
Writers, Artists
and Muses at the Heart of a Revolution"
edited by Brenda
Knight, foreword by Anne Waldman, afterword by Ann
Charters. Look
for it in your local bookstore, or contact Conari for more
info:
800-685-9595
conaripub@aol.com
http://www.readersndex.com/conari/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 03:58:27 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: oriental vs occidental
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jun 15, 1996
23:27:02, 'Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>' wrote:
>In Kentucky
>I pass fast
>on one lane
bridges
>
>Ron Whitehead
In Amish
country--
Long line of fast
cars behind
Black horse and
buggy.
Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 00:24:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
oriental vs occidental
1 In
Kentucky
always
I go too far
3 In
Kentucky
my skin turns
blue & I holler
12 In
Kentucky
I don't go
to the Derby
I3 In
Kentucky
springtime lie down
in orange sagebrush
14 In
Kentucky
with old Blue
watch white clouds
16
In Kentucky
my heart
is breaking
17
In Kentucky
moon shines
comets are loud
18
In Kentucky
music
is mountainous
21
In Kentucky
I am
no more
33
In Kentucky say goodbye
to bluegrass highways
raise barns with Amish
Chalk Skin Bending
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 08:19:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zen books
Highly recomended
is AMBIVILANT ZEN (excuse my spelling) by Lawrence Shainberg.
A good book on
Zen, not so much about the Beats, but good none the less. New in
hardcover.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:44:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kurt and Zen?
Comments: cc:
forza@concentric.net
First, there is a
great bio of Kurt Cobain called "Come As You Are". In all
the material I
have read on him, I saw nothing to indicate KC had more than a
superficial
interest in Zen. It's probable that well
meaning persons tried
to get KC into
meditation to calm him, I'm sure he tried it, but he never
followed through
and made it a part of his hectic life (can you imaging
trying to
meditate with Courtney screaming about something?). Kurt's cronic
ulcers did not
help either.
KC was a bright
fellow. If he had taken the time to
pursue outside interests
and found some
balance in his life, he might still be with us.
His problem
was not unlike
Jack Kerouac's - neither was ready for fame.
Both ended up
distroying
themselves (Kerouac's method was slower, but just as effective).
I saw Nirvana
once. I got so depressed I walked out
toward the end. I think
KC's music had
the effect on me that he desired. I was
used to the joy of
Grateful Dead
concerts and the Nirvana vibe was too different for me at the
time. Since then I've developed a greater
appreciation for KC's music and I
now believe he
was THE musical giant of the 1990's.
What a great writer he
was too. Great songwriting IS poetry (anyone
disagree?) At least some of the
greatness of
Nirvana lives on with Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters. Dave is
a musical genius
too but is not the tormented soul that Kurt was. He will
stick around for
awhile. RIP Kurt.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:54:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: ZEN MIND?
BEGINNERS MIND?
I wrote this last
January when I hit a plateau in my spiritual paractice and
showed it to
various poeple who in turn pointed me to D.T. Suzuki's Book, "Zen
Mind, Beginners
Mind." Maybe there is a state
called the "Don't Know Mind" as
opposed to, or
complimented by, the "No Mind" state.
JE NE SAIS PAS
I dont know who I
am
I dont know what
I want
I dont know why
I'm here
I dont know who
got here first
I dont know what
it all has to do with me
I dont know why I
dont make my bed
I dont know why I
keep losing my socks
I dont know why
my mom keeps calling me
I dont know why I
keep rolling that damn rock up the hill
I dont know if I
get enough sleep
I dont know what
it means when I fly in my dreams
I dont know the
appropriate life skills
I dont know how
it all works
I dont know if I
have any regrets
I dont know how
to not sweat the small shit
I dont know how
to hold my own with other guys
I dont know how
to do the relationship thing
I dont know how
to laugh
I dont know how
to cry
I dont know why
the harder I try the harder it gets
I dont know why
my cat prefers the carpet to the litter box
I dont know if
tomorrow ever comes of if it belongs to me
I dont know if
UFO's exist
I dont know if
professional wrestlers are faking it or not
I dont know if
Eddie Haskell is really Alice Cooper
I dont know who
wrote the book of love or if I even care
I dont know if
"Louie, Louie" is the Great Western Mantra
I dont know if
Elvis is dead or if Jim Morrison is alive
and running guns in Honduras
I dont know if
you've heard the one about the Zen vacuum cleaner;
it has no attachments
I dont know why
we die
I dont know what
time is
I dont know if
God plays dice
I dont know if
reincarnation really matters
I dont know if
meditation is the highest form of prayer
I dont know if
prayer is the highest form of song
I dont know why
Bob Dylan always sounds like its killing him to sing
I dont know if a
woman named "J" wrote the Bible
I dont know why
there are homeless children
I dont know why
most men are proud of the fact that their underpants
are torn and frayed
I dont know how
to get rid of the smell of catpiss in my carpet
I dont know why
some people insist that the Holocaust never happened
I dont know why
evil men prosper and the good die young
I dont know if
God is a hairy thunderer or a cosmic elf named "Muffy"
I dont know if
we'll ever develop cold fusion
I dont know if
Shakespeare was gay
I dont know if
Beethoven was black
I dont know
J.R."Bob" Dobbs is the Messiah
I dont know why
O.J. walked
I dont know why
Jesus wept
I dont know if I
have anything to prove
I dont know if I
have anything to say
I dont know why
these things happen
I dont know what
the hell is going on
Copyright 1996
Paul McDonald
1187 East Broadway
#3
Louisville, KY
40204
(502)583-8014
Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:03:53 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Fave Zen Quote
My favorite zen
koan:
"Zen is an
aberration."
- Mortimer J. Adler
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:15:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: ZEN MIND? BEGINNERS MIND?
Paul McDonald -
Bon Air Branch wrote:
>
> I wrote this
last January when I hit a plateau in my spiritual paractice and
> showed it to
various poeple who in turn pointed me to D.T. Suzuki's Book, "Zen
> Mind,
Beginners Mind."
Frogive me for
correcting you but "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" is NOT written by
D.T.
Suzuki. It's
written by that other Suzuki who I believe founded the San Fran Zen
Center. Can't
remember his first name.
ZM/BM is a
wonderful book, but D.T. Suzuki is my personal fave and also was a
huge
influence on the
Beats. Gary Snyder would hitch hike carrying D.T. Suzuki's
"Essays
on Zen
Buddhism".
Since I've got your
attention, there's a wonderful story about the time Jack,
Allen
and Peter met D.
T. Suzuki. I'll find it and post it tomorrow.
John H.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:22:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: zen koan
Hello!
zen koan: we know the sound of
one ass braying
but do we really
know the difference between
an ass and a
hole in the ground
2 x 2 =
5
A.H.A.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:33:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: ZEN MIND? BEGINNERS MIND?
Thank you for
correcting me. The author is Shunryu
Suzuki.
Paul
"What is the
sound of one clam humping?"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:27:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ZEN MIND? BEGINNERS MIND?
John H. wrote:
>Forgive me
for correcting you but "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" is NOT written
by D.T. Suzuki.
It's written by that other Suzuki who I believe founded the
San Fran Zen
Center. Can't remember his first name.ZM/BM is a wonderful
book, but D.T.
Suzuki is my personal fave and also was a huge influence on
the Beats. Gary
Snyder would hitch hike carrying D.T. Suzuki's "Essays on
Zen
Buddhism".Since I've got your attention, there's a wonderful story about
the time
Jack,Allen and Peter met D. T. Suzuki. I'll find it and post it
tomorrow. John H.
"Zen Mind,
Beginners Mind" Shunryu Suzuki New York and Tokyo:John
Wetherhill,
Inc.1970
Yes find that
story and post it that sounds good. P.C.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:55:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: USA TODAY today 6/17/96
Hello! Check out USA TODAY today 6/17/96 under
Leisure Travel. Half page
titled "'On
the Road' in a bohemian generation's footsteps." Based on
interview with
Doug Brinkley lists his top picks of places to follow Beat
history. Doug
called me from airport early this morning. He's just back from
Europe &
headed to NYC for C-Spam interview tonight at 7PM. I'm producing
this New Orleans
INSOMNIACATHON at Doug's request. Article lists Eisenhower
Center at Univ of
New Orleans as sponsor for event & gives their number. They
are one of
several sponsors: the literary renaissance, The Majic Bus, City of
New Orleans, Louisiana
Arts Council, TRIBE magazine, CORPSE (formerly
EXQUISITE),
The New Orleans
Contemporary Arts Center, & The Howlin Wolf Club. I'm headed
to New Orleans in
morn for few days work. When return I'll update you all on
event.
Event official title is: RANT for the literary
renaissance & The Majic Bus
present Voices
Without Restraint 48-Hour Non-Stop Music & Poetry
INSOMNIACATHON at
The New Orleans Contemporary Arts Center & The Howlin Wolf
Club Aug 16-18.
Ron Whitehead
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:19:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Buddhist (if not zen) quote/Woodstock
Journal
Comments: cc:
RHulvey@aol.com
and what's the
Work?
To ease the pain of living
Everything else,
drunken
dumbshow
Allen Ginsberg
"Memory Gardens"
-----------------
I first saw this
quote in Ed Sanders' "Woodstock
Journal", and it now occurs
to me I've never
seen the paper mentioned here. Very much a local paper, and
more than that.
Ultra-sane (lots of ha ha hee); environmentally concerned,
socially active,
in the face and yes, poetry: Anne Waldman, Ginsberg,
Sanders, Robert
Kelly, Richard Paridisio.
Some as yet
unpublished stuff, I seem to recall.
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 02:51:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tom Moody
<tmoody@WILEY.CSUSB.EDU>
Subject: Re: oriental vs occidental
>On Jun 15,
1996 23:27:02, 'Ron Whitehead <RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>' wrote:
>
>
>>In
Kentucky
>>I pass
fast
>>on one
lane bridges
>>
>>Ron
Whitehead
>
>In Amish
country--
>Long line of
fast cars behind
>Black horse
and buggy.
>
>Mark J
>
In L>A>
Long line of fast
cars creeping behind
another long line
of fast cars.>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:17:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chanda J Pearmon
<cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: oriental vs occidental
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<199606170358.DAA29637@pipe2.ny1.usa.pipeline.com>
can i get
unsubscribed
cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu
/|\ ))_((
/|\
/ | \ (/\|/\)
/ | \
|-|------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\------|-|
|-| '^`
(o o) '^` |-|
|-| Morpheus
`\Y/' |-|
|-| cjpearmo@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |-|
|-|
http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~cjpearmo |-|
|-| |-|
|-| "never know how i wanted to feel |-|
|-| never quite said what i wanted to |-|
|-| say to you and now the time is gone |-|
|-|______________________________________|-|
l /\ /
( ( \ /\ l
l / V
\ \ V \ l
l/ _) )_ \I
`\ /'
`
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:54:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: What are these things?
In-Reply-To: <960615232702_135870349@emout16.mail.aol.com>
Hmm...
interesting points. As a little aside,
I've been taking Asian
History this past
year, and as we went into Taoism, Buddhism,
Confucianism, and
Zen, the question came up as to what they really were.
Are they
religions, or philosophies, or something in between?
Any comments?
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:00:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Kurt?
A beat?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.93.960616091059.17960A-100000@voyager.cris.com>
Hmm...
This question has
often puzzled me, too. I've listened to
some of Kurt's
songs, and I
can't stand them. I just don't have an
appetite for rock
that heavy. However, a lot of people say he was like
Kerouac in many
ways. Only, Kerouac didn't kill himself, and
Kerouac wouldn't have
married Courtney
Love...
puzzled,
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:08:24 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: ZEN MIND? BEGINNERS MIND?
> I wrote this
last January when I hit a plateau in my spiritual paractice and
> showed it to
various poeple who in turn pointed me to D.T. Suzuki's Book, "Zen
> Mind,
Beginners Mind." Maybe there is a
state called the "Don't Know Mind" as
> opposed to,
or complimented by, the "No Mind" state.
>
>
>
> JE NE SAIS
PAS
>
> I dont know
who I am
> I dont know
what I want
> I dont know
why I'm here
> I dont know
who got here first
> I dont know
what it all has to do with me
> I dont know
why I dont make my bed
> I dont know
why I keep losing my socks
> I dont know
why my mom keeps calling me
> I dont know
why I keep rolling that damn rock up the hill
> I dont know
if I get enough sleep
> I dont know
what it means when I fly in my dreams
> I dont know
the appropriate life skills
> I dont know
how it all works
> I dont know
if I have any regrets
> I dont know
how to not sweat the small shit
> I dont know
how to hold my own with other guys
> I dont know
how to do the relationship thing
> I dont know
how to laugh
> I dont know
how to cry
> I dont know
why the harder I try the harder it gets
> I dont know
why my cat prefers the carpet to the litter box
> I dont know
if tomorrow ever comes of if it belongs to me
> I dont know
if UFO's exist
> I dont know
if professional wrestlers are faking it or not
> I dont know
if Eddie Haskell is really Alice Cooper
> I dont know
who wrote the book of love or if I even care
> I dont know
if "Louie, Louie" is the Great Western Mantra
> I dont know
if Elvis is dead or if Jim Morrison is alive
> and running guns in Honduras
> I dont know
if you've heard the one about the Zen vacuum cleaner;
> it has no attachments
> I dont know
why we die
> I dont know
what time is
> I dont know
if God plays dice
> I dont know
if reincarnation really matters
> I dont know
if meditation is the highest form of prayer
> I dont know
if prayer is the highest form of song
> I dont know
why Bob Dylan always sounds like its killing him to sing
> I dont know
if a woman named "J" wrote the Bible
> I dont know
why there are homeless children
> I dont know
why most men are proud of the fact that their underpants
> are torn and frayed
> I dont know
how to get rid of the smell of catpiss in my carpet
> I dont know
why some people insist that the Holocaust never happened
> I dont know
why evil men prosper and the good die young
> I dont know
if God is a hairy thunderer or a cosmic elf named "Muffy"
> I dont know
if we'll ever develop cold fusion
> I dont know
if Shakespeare was gay
> I dont know
if Beethoven was black
> I dont know
J.R."Bob" Dobbs is the Messiah
> I dont know
why O.J. walked
> I dont know
why Jesus wept
> I dont know
if I have anything to prove
> I dont know
if I have anything to say
> I dont know
why these things happen
> I dont know
what the hell is going on
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Copyright
1996
>
> Paul
McDonald
> 1187 East
Broadway #3
> Louisville,
KY 40204
>
(502)583-8014
>
> Paul@louisville.lib.ky.us
>
It took me 5
minutes to go through, but it sounds
very very cool.
And Zen, even in
an early stage of perfection, can be cool, can't it ?
But the heading
isn't Zen-like at all. French in an
English poem -
if it really is a
poem - is sort of un-cool !
Jens
Jens Moellenhoff
Email:jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
Internet:http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German Language)
University of
Munich, Germany
*** Language is a
Virus from Outer Space ***
*** William S. Burroughs ***
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:16:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ed Hertzog <exh112@PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: What are these things?
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
>Hmm...
interesting points. As a little aside,
I've been taking Asian
>History this
past year, and as we went into Taoism, Buddhism,
>Confucianism,
and Zen, the question came up as to what they really were.
>Are they
religions, or philosophies, or something in between?
>Any comments?
>
>Jonathan
>
I would define a
religion as any way of thought having faith/revelation as
an
epistimological (sp?) basis. There are some things in these ways of
thought that
would involve faith, such as Buddhist believing that there is
no such thing as
self (ego). I know a little about Taoism and Buddhism, and
Zen, but I am
unable to comment on Confucianism. In my opinion, these three
are religions.
Conversely, I
would define a way of thought that uses reason as its
epistimology as a
philosophy. I'm sure I'll get some grief over my opinions,
but here they
are.
Ed Hertzog
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:03:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: now that's cool
how about english in a german poem. is that
cool or uncool? or what about
spanish in a
norwegian poem? or what about chinese under a tahitian moon? or
what about a worm
in a bottle of tequila?
yellow dog
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:36:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Whitehead
<RWhiteBone@AOL.COM>
Subject: goodbye
farewell
Hello & farewell to all. Signing off AOL
tonight. Just one more bill I
can't afford.
Barely keeping the literary renaissance & White Fields Press
(not to mention
my personal life) afloat. It was fun while it lasted & I wish
all of you The
Best.
Ron Whitehead
P.S. List
Provider please either sign me off or send info for me to do IT.
Thanks!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:22:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Kerouac & DT Suzuki
Rummaging through
my library last night, I found 3 books mentioning
Jack Kerouac's
visit with D.T.Suzuki, the man credited with
singlehandedly
introducing Zen Buddhism to the West (or, more
specifically, to
LasSalle, Illinois).
The works from
which I shall quote are the following:
"How the
Swans Came to the Lake: A Narrative History of Buddhism in
America" 3rd
Edition, by Rick Fields
"Desolate
Angel: Jack Kerouac, the Beat Generation, and America" by
Dennis McNally
"D.T.Suzuki's
Contribution to the West" essay by Larry A. Fader
contained in
"A Zen Life: D.T.Suzuki Remembered" edited by Masao Abe
I begin with the
Fields book, which gives the fullest account:
_The day "The Dharma Bums"
was published, Kerouac, Ginsberg and Peter
Orlovsky were on
their way to an elegant penthouse party in honor of
Kerouac's new
novel, when Kerouac stepped into a phone booth and called
up D.T.Suzuki.
Kerouac said he would like to stop by for a visit, and
Suzuki asked when
he wanted to come by. "RIGHT NOW!" Kerouac yelled into
the receiver, and
Suzuki said, "O.K." Kerouac, Ginsberg and Orlovsky all
trooped over to
the borwnstone on West 94th that Suzuki shared with the
Okamuras.
"I rang Mr. Suzuki's door and he
did not answer," Kerouac wrote in a
reminiscence
published in the "Berkeley Bussei", the magazine of the
Berkeley Young
Buddhist Association, in 1960,
-suddenly I
decided to ring it three times, firmly and slowly, and then
he came - he was
a small man coming slowly through an old house with
panelled wood
walls and many books - he had long eyelashes, as everyone
knows, which put
me in the mind of the saying in the Sutras that the
Dharma, like a
bush, is slow to take root but once it has taken root it
grows huge and
firm and can't be hauled up from the ground except by a
golden giant
whose name is not Tathagata - anyway, Doctor Suzuki made us
some green tea,
very thick and soupy - he had precisely what idea of
what place I
should sit, and where my two other friends should sit, the
chairs already
arranged - he himself sat behind a table and looked at us
silently, nodding
- I said in a loud voice (because he had told us he
was a little
deaf) "Why did Bodhidharma come from the West?" - He made
no reply - He
said, "You three young men sit here quietly & write haikus
while I go make
some green tea" - He brought us the green tea in cracked
old soupbowls of
some sort - He told us not to forget about the tea -
when we left, he
pushed us out the door but once we were out on the
sidewalk he began
giggling at us and pointing his finger and saying
"Don't
forget the tea!" - I said "I would like to spend the rest of my
life with
you" - He held up his finger and said
"Sometime."_
Dennis McNally's
Kerouac biography fills in a few holes:
_The afternoon of October 15,
(1960)...Kerouac rang up the sage. When
Dr. Suzuki's
secretary asked "When?" Jack shouted "Right now!" and the
three of them
caught a cab...Their talk wandered into koans, and Jack
nervously showed
the Roshi his own: "When the Buddha was about to speak
a horse spoke
instead." Suzuki sighed that it was typically Western and
overcomplicated.
"After all," the old man said, "the Buddha and the
horse had some
kind of understanding there."....they...talked about old
Chinese prints
and religion. In an embarassing excess, Jack volunteered
that he'd had
samadhis (satori, bursts of enlightenment) that had lasted
up to half an
hour, and lapsed into silence when Dr. Suzuki gently
remarked that a
true samadhi had no time and all time. Impatient to get
to the Viking
cocktails, Jack thought to leave, then indulged one of his
quicksilver
bursts of enthusiasm and decided that Suzuki was his father.
He told the
elder, "I would like to spend the rest of my life with you,
sir." Suzuki
giggled and said, "Sometime," then came down to the steps
with them, waving
goodbye with the comment, "Remember the green tea."_
Larry A. Fader
includes in his essay a passage from a letter written to
him from Ginsberg
dated 5/7/76:
(Ginsberg writes)
_On the way to the publisher's party, Kerouac, myself
and Orlovsky
visited D.T.Suzuki at his house in New York on a
spur-of-the-moment
phone call, sat in his study, composed haikus on a
Sesshu print on
his wall, and drank green tea with him that he prepared
- he saw us
downstairs to bid adieux from his door opened on the front
stoop, waving
goodbye, saying to us, "Don't forget the green tea."
(Fader writes) Suzuki believed that the
Beat Generation...had
misunderstood his
interpretation of Zen. "Spontaneity," wrote Suzuki,
"is not
everything, it must be 'rooted'."_
I hope the list
has enjoyed this. Posted comments and private e-mail are
welcome.
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
P.S. Don't leave
us, Ron W.!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 17:25:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: re What are these things?
Ed Hertzog wrote:
>I would
define a religion as any way of thought having >faith/revelation as
an
epistimological (sp?) basis.
<snip>
>Conversely, I
would define a way of thought that uses reason >as its
epistimology as a
philosophy.
Okay, as a rough
measure, I can buy this distinction, however, I think the
inter-relationship
between the two concepts is more complex and the divisions
will never be
quite so clear-cut. For example, both religion and philosophy
strive to define
the relationship between human consciousness and the greater
cosmos.
I can think of
some works which are defined as philosophical which are not
necessarily
derived entirely from "reason" - Nietszche's entire ouevre, for
example. Indeed,
Nietszche was, in some senses, decidedly anti-rational!
OTOH, you have
works like Thomas Aquinas' _Summa Thologica_, which contain a
good deal of
classical logical argument, yet which are essentially religious
in nature.
I don't have an
alternative formula for delineating the difference between
the two concepts,
but maybe that's because I have trouble seeing the two as
all that
different.
Anyone know of a
list-serv that deals with philosophy _per se_ (before we
drift too far
off-topic)?
Luther Jett
PS to Ron
Whitehead - Sorry to see you go; maybe there's an independent ISP
out there in
Kentucky with cheaper rates?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:08:55 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re:
oriental vs occidental II
(Sound effects:
listen to Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band's song
"Beautiful
Loser" while reading: "He wants his home and security; he wants
to live like a
sailor at sea.")
Ron writes:
>You lived the
way Kerouac & Co. did but recognized how
>destructive
it was. Fine. Destructive for you Destructive for them. Perhaps.
>Does that
negate Kerouac & Co. in any way?
Face it: On the
Road was not written by a happy person, let alone Big Sur.
In my opinion,
Kerouac succeeded in his writing and failed at his personal
life. But he was
a magnificent failure, and I'm interested in the reasons
why he failed.
(In fact, brilliant failures are often more interesting than
successes:
Kerouac was more interesting than Snyder, but Snyder was more
successful and
effective as a human being.)
>Perhaps from
your own experience &
>point of view
but where does that leave us leave you? What is truth? Do you
>know?
It's just my
experience; which is all anybody can claim. Ironically, if I'd
been listening, I
would have heard the same thing from my father 25 years
ago! That's one
advantage of not burning oneself out: to live long enough
to realize that
parent's aren't such unreasonable people; it's children who
make them behave
like maniacs.
>We move
forward by the aid of symbols & we change those symbols as we
>move forward.
Of what real profit is it to us, to deprive life of all its
>dreams, of
all its beautiful mysticism and of all its lies (thank you K.H.)?
Whoa, now hold on
thar... What deprived Jack's life of all its dreams, its
beautiful
mysticism? I suspect alcoholism. Jack preferred to submerge his
problems in
drink, rather than solve them. In general, it's easier to
substitute a
defense mechanism (alcohol is one) for personal growth:
learning to deal
effectively with life's problems.
>What do you
mean What Kerouac did in his life didn't work for him.
Did he acheive
the goals he set for himself? Did he consider himself a
success? Would he
have set himself up as a role model? I think he would
have been
horrified at the idea of people emulating him.
>With
>suffering
comes humility, and with it, in the end wisdom (thank you J.S.).
Not always!
>Kerouac
suffered much. He caused suffering (i.e. his daughter Jan). But what
>he did in his
life worked for him in as many ways as it didn't.
Please be
specific.
>His creative
>work is some
of the best in the history of world literature (despite highbrow
>academic
criticism).
Your opinion. My opinion: good as his writing is, he was
capable of better.
>Pain and joy,
failure and succes are different sides of
>same coin
called human nature human being. To say this is good that is bad
>you succeeded
because of this you failed because of that is reductive & does
>not allow
full emotional mental physical spiritual depth of being human. We
>learn to walk
but fall time & time again.
My point is that
when Jack fell, he didn't learn to walk, he'd get drunk!
>To fail is to
live to be human.
Success is nice
too; and to be fully human we need people to whom we are
important, we
need goals and we need a direction in our lives (often in the
form of work.)
>Breathe deep
of failure of success of life.
>Yes Kerouac's
life was stressful. And through that stress look at the
>beautiful
gems he created gifts he gave to us which help us endure the pain
>the stress
the suffering inherent in life.
So do we
disagree? All I'm saying is he was a lovable failure, but I'm sure
as hell glad I never
had to depend on him!
>Who knows
what
>lessons a
human being learns by being lazy, passive, self-destructive,
>nihilist,
alcoholic, drug abuser? tolerance may be the greatest love.
I'm not
intolerant: I wouldn't have had him arrested; in fact arresting and
jailing Cassady
was a very destructive and hypocritical thing to do. BUT...
I do want to
point out there are better ways to live a life. As Seger says:
We just don't
need it all.
Write me in 20
years and let me know if your thinking has changed!
George
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:04:07 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: What are these things?
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jun 17, 1996
20:54:30, 'Jonathan Kratter <jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>'
wrote:
>we went into
Taoism, Buddhism,
>Confucianism,
and Zen, the question came up as to what they really were.
>Are they
religions, or philosophies, or something in between?
>Any comments?
The first is probably
more a philosophy or collection of sayings from Lao
Tsu in the Tao Te
Ching, an ancient Chinese text. Buddhism
and
Confucianism are
most certainly religions, both of which have large
followings and
are measured in millennia. Zen or Zen
Buddhism is a small
sect or offshoot
of Buddhism and hence must also be considered a religion.
Mark J
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:20:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Dear Phil,
I think that the following is important
and I would like you to put
it on the beat-list
for me since I have some many problems to get it
through. I would really appreciate if you can do it
for me. Merci pour ta
gentillesse! Jean
Hi
everyone,
I found something that might interest
a lot of you. A
journalist form
"La Presse" newspaper in Montreal found that some
unpublished
writing in French form Kerouac were exsisting form John
Sampas
collection. Achmy Halley, the journalist
from "La Presse",
knew about this information by Roger Brunelle,
a Lowell citizen
who knows
Kerouac's life from his days in Lowell.
The text he found is
titled:"La nuit est ma femme" (The
night is my wife) and was written
by Kerouac during the period he was writing
"On the Road".
Now the marvelous
thing is that this text was published in the June 1996
issue of the NRF
(Nouvelle Revue Francaise)-Gallimard magazine.
This is of course
a magazine written in French from France.
I am a
francophone
living in Montreal and it seems that the magazine will be available
July 10 th. As
soon as I find it, I will let people know of what I think of
it.
>From Halley's
point of view, the text is dealing with Jack's writter
vocation. Here's some line of the text:
"J'ai revez trop longtemps que
j'etais un grand ecrivain.
J'appri ca dans les livres. Y avait un temps que je
pensais chaque mot que j'ecrirai
etait immortelle.
J'embarqua ca avec un gros coeur
romantique."
Here is my personnal translation (Don't
forget that I am Francophone!)
"I dreamt too long that I was
a great writer.
I learned that in books. There was a time that
I thought every words I was to
write were immortal.
I took that with a big romantic
heart."
If some of you would more interested in
that text or in
the newspaper article from "La
Presse", just e-mail me.
Jean
torso@generation.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:58:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: George Morrone
<gmorrone@PROLOG.NET>
Subject: Re: What are these things?
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer writes:
>
>...I've been
taking Asian
>History this
past year, and as we went into Taoism, Buddhism,
>Confucianism,
and Zen, the question came up as to what they really were.
>Are they
religions, or philosophies, or something in between?
>Any comments?
>
My own rough
understanding:
Western
categories such as "religion" and "god" don't work very
well with
Eastern
religions. In the west, the idea is to please the supreme being,
God, by living a
moral life, avoiding sin. Eastern religions, when we
separate out the
mythology, aim at acheiving what John Blofeld calls a
supreme state of
being: the cultivation of immortality.
Practices vary,
but include
meditation, breathing exercises, and even sexual yogas
("Yabyum,"
which Confucians would find horrifying:
they are the
puritans of the east.)
In Theravada
Buddhism, the supreme state (Nirvana, which is not the same
as nothing) is the goal. Mahayana buddhists
put off Nirvana to stay
here and work for
the salvation of all beings. Taoism is an independent
Chinese tradition
that influenced Buddhism on its way to Japan. And Zen is
simply Japanese
Buddhism. Taoism aims at cultivation of the Way, or Tao.
Zen is
(fundamentally) a set of breathing exercises.
The following is
a quote from Blofeld's book:
"The Tao is
unknowable, vast, eternal. As undifferentiated void, pure
spirit it is the
mother of the cosmos; as non-void it is the container, the
sustainer and, in
a a sense, the being of the myriad objects, permeating
all. As the goal
of existence, it is the Way of Heaven, of Earth, of Man.
No being, it is
the source of Being. It is not conscious of activity, has
no purpose, seeks
no rewards or praise, yet performs all things to
perfection."
The Road to Immortality; p. 2; Shambala 1978
Lately, I've been
thinking that "tao" is a more useful concept than
"reality."
George
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:37:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kurt? A beat?
Hello folks.
William Miller
here.
In a message
dated 96-06-18 00:08:01 EDT, Jonathan Kratter writes:
>Kerouac
didn't kill himself
Oh really?
And what is up
with all this asian religion stuff on the Beat List? If
there's a
connection, may we continue to explore the connection. Beyond
that, i'm sure
that there's a Zenlist or a BigDaddyBuddhaList out there
somewhere, eh?
miller
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 23:29:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Goodbye..
Hello all my
fellow angelheaded hipsters,
The time has come when we must part
company for the summer as I
sojourn to Maine
to cultivate right-mindfulness and become more beatific
for the summer
before returning to the dreary reality that is
highschool. This will be the final year that I flee
northward to
beautiful
Washington, Maine.
However, during this time, I will not
have access to a computer
such that I can
maintain membership on a list like this.
However, if you
have any personal
communication, you can still e-mail me at this address
and the mail will
be forwarded to me at my camp.
Thus, after this Friday, I will be
unsubscribing from this list.
But not until
Friday.
Before I go, I have several parting
comments.
The first is on an old, old thread,
that is, whether Bob Dylan
was a beat. I had a sudden epiphany while listening to
"Tom Thumb's
Blues." I don't have a set of lyrics, but listen and
you'll hear:
"When you're down in Juarez in the
rain and it's easter time too,
and your gravity fails and negativity
don't pull you through
don't put on any airs when you're down
on Rue Morgue avenue
there some hungry women there they'll
really make a man out of you..."
and
"I started out on burgundy but
soon hit the harder stuff
all my friends said they'd stand by me
when the game got rough"
and
"I'm going back to New York city, I
do believe I've had enough."
Maybe I'm viewing the facts to fit the
hypothesis, but that sure
sounds a lot like
the Mexico segement of On The Road.
Also, starting on
burgundy but soon
hitting the harder stuff may be an allusion to Jack's
drinking problem.
That's my first point. Secondly, I'd like to thank everyone for
their responses
on the difference between religion and philosophy and
Buddhism, etc...
and apologize to everyone for wasting beat list space
with buddhist
things.
Eternally Dreaming,
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 01:36:33 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lori Fenn
<lyf1305@OMEGA.UTA.EDU>
Subject: Unsuscribe
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>
Unsuscribe
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:56:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beats, Buddhism, Beagles and Lox
>And what is
up with all this asian religion stuff on the Beat >List? If
there's a
connection, may we continue to explore the >connection.
I believe this
thread emerged from an enquiry into the relationship of the
Beats to Buddhism
- Particularly Kerouac (this is an ongoing theme), but also
Ginsberg, Gary
Snyder, et al. Someone asked a quite legitimate question,
seeking
clarification, and a number of people kindly responded. I didn't
think it
irrelevant at all.
Has a dog Buddha
nature?
Luther Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:16:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Is Yr Dog Beat??
Of course--
How dare you even
ask the question--
All beings in the
"quivering wheel of meat conception" bear Buddha nature--
It's amazing to
me how anyone can consider discussion of Buddhism/Beatitude
irrelevant.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:22:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jack Black book
Hello folks.
William Miller
here.
Last autumn I
posted to the list a request for information about Jack Black's
_You Can't
Win_. I have been looking for it ever
since (doggedly resisting
all offers of a
new paperback for $20).
Some fine
gentleman suggested trying to get ahold of a copy through
InterLibrary Loan
(ILL). I tried that a month ago, and
voila! I received a
copy, on loan,
yesterday,from a small private college library in South
Carolina.
It's a hardcover
printing from 1926 (book first published 1925).
Let me tell
you, I've just
peeked inside, but apparently this is the real thing and
worthwhile.
Just letting you
know that the book is available, and for less than $20 !
I love it when a
plan comes together.
William Miller.
PS thanks to the
fellow in (Maine, was it?) who suggested ILL.
Try it,
beatfans. It works!
PPS At least two of you requested detailed
information on the new paperback
from BiP, some
publisher in Hawaii. Did either/any of
you order it? If so,
what does it look
like?
--WAA17360.835238241/emout13.mail.aol.com--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:26:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Corso article
The London Review
of Books (6 June issue) carries a fascinating article by
Iain Sinclair
about a visit to NYC to interview Gregory Corso for a BBC
Radio program
about the Beats. Talks about how much of his work is
unpublished, how
he never really fitted in with the 'triplicity' (his word)
of
JK&WB&AG. Some nice quotes (not enough to violate copyright)...
"He can't
talk sitting down. He has to pace the length of the room, like a
cell ...His
memory tapes are on a loop ...Grey hair to the shoulder,
gargoyle cherub
...if anyone should be in the Nike ads, it's Gregory. He's
the only
pensioned Beat still using well-hiked trainers. Look at the Annie
Leibovitz spread in
Vanity Fair, a row of brilliantly varnished hoofs - and
Corso sockless in
scuffed white casuals."
and later
"corso uses
a number of similes drawn from native American life, an
unconcious
reonnection with Snyder's long-term concerns. The Beats, he
implies, are the
Redskins of America: noble savages doomed in all they
attempt. Fossils
of better times. Or Hollywood B-feature braves played by
Jews. In his fine
collection Elegiac Feelings American, he wrote of Kerouac,
his
identification with the land, and also offered a 'Spontaneous Requiem
for the American
Indian'. A 'hard nickel faced' Geronimo skidding into a
displaced,
leather-jacket motorcyclist 'smoking/a cigarette in a fishy
corner in the
night."
It's a good
article. I think Borders/B&N/good independents carry LRB, and a
fair number of
libraries take it too...
Nick W-W
**************************************************************************
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv (http://www.usa4.com/chipub/)
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
***Publishing is
90% inspiration and the other half is just hard work
(with apologies
to Yogi Berra)***
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:29:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jonathan Kratter
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Unsubscribe..
Hi everyone...
Unfortunately, as I have said before, I
must away to scenic Maine...
and, it is Friday...
so, will someone unsubscribe me from
the list, please?
Thank you kindly, I'll see you all in
September,
Jonathan
=========================
Jonathan Kratter,
Dreamer
"Fantasies are the sugar with
which you take the bitter medicine
of life."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:48:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: LitKicks in Wired
Hey, I saw the
new Wired. It had a picture of Levi
Asher's Kerouac stamp
and a little
about the litkicks site.
And they
mentioned me too in a way.
They gave the url
for LitKicks and talked about what can be seen there.
They said you can
listen to Kerouac reading. Well, that
actually is my
site, not
LitKicks, but Levi graciously linked to it in the Kerouac section
of LitKicks. I guess these Wired guys can't even tell one
site from another.
And I must say
there is another Kerouac reading site with readings from Mex
City Blues and SF
Blues. I don't remember the name of the
guy who runs it
or its URL. You can get to it through my kerouac speaks
site or through
Levi's LitKicks
in the kerouac section.
I assume everyone
here knows this but,
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/kerouacspeaks/kerouacspeaks.html
Those are them
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 02:27:43 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson" <smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Corso article
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jun 21, 1996
10:26:19, 'Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>' wrote:
>In his fine
collection Elegiac Feelings American, he wrote of Kerouac,
One of the few
books that made it through the nuthouse and came out the
other side with
me intact (both of us...). I am with you
in Springfield
and Wichita Falls
State...
--
s. mark johnson
"If it ain't
broke, don't fix it."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 02:55:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Emily L. User."
<Queen79099@AOL.COM>
Subject: The french subject
It would be
simply fabulous if you could send the french Kerouac. I really
have nothing else
to say, so here's my e-mail address:
Queen79099@aol.com
otherwise known
as...
emily in Palo
Alto, CA
thanks a lot!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:59:33 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Pizzo
<drjoey@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Unsubscribe
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
Joey
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:25:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: CMJ <Forza@CRIS.COM>
SIGN-OFF BEAT-L
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:03:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is Yr Dog Beat??
The Lowes write:
"Of course--
How dare you even
ask the question--
All beings in the
"quivering wheel of meat conception" bear Buddha nature--
It's amazing to
me how anyone can consider discussion of Buddhism/Beatitude
irrelevant."
-0--------------------------------------
That's
right. I'm the one that first questioned
the string of Asian religion
notes to the
list. I NEVER said that it was
irrelevant, just that there
ought to be a Zen
list (I was thinking that for entries with titles such as
"Zen Mind,
Beginner's Mind", a Zen list would be perfect !!!). No offense
take, please.
Never mind. It was just a silly note, lowes.
On the dogs/beat
note, check out what Bill had to say in _The Cat Inside_
about
domesticated dogs. It's a hoot.
William Miller
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
"We're not
all here for Kerouac, you know." -- The WiseCracker
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:13:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Lenore Kandel
Does anyone know
the current status and whereabouts of Lenore
Kandel? She was a
poet of the S. F. Beat circle in the early '60s, author
of The Love Book,
character (Ramona Schwartz ) based on her in
Kerouac's Big
Sur.
Thanks, Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:28:55 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Adam <alaska@HK.SUPER.NET>
Subject: Re: What are these things?
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB61C8.BD0FBFA0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
It might be right
to say about Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, including =
Zen, that they
all can have different characteristics depending upon who =
is following them
and where. Wouldn't it be accurate to
say of these =
philosophies
&/or religions that (speaking generally) they can exist on =
several or many
social planes, across various countries and cultures, =
and can be anything
from austere visions of life coupled with similarly =
austere
practices, to ways of finding out from "the gods" by way of a =
temple priest,
whether or not one should buy 1000 shares of Cathay =
Pacific or get
married this year...... =20
Gene Adam
Hong Kong
----------
From: s. mark johnson[SMTP:smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 June 1996 9:04
To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
Subject: Re: What are these things?
On Jun 17, 1996
20:54:30, 'Jonathan Kratter =
<jonkrat@NUEVA.PVT.K12.CA.US>'
wrote:
>we went into
Taoism, Buddhism,
>Confucianism,
and Zen, the question came up as to what they really =
were.
>Are they
religions, or philosophies, or something in between?
>Any comments?
The first is
probably more a philosophy or collection of sayings from =
Lao
Tsu in the Tao Te
Ching, an ancient Chinese text. Buddhism
and
Confucianism are
most certainly religions, both of which have large
followings and
are measured in millennia. Zen or Zen
Buddhism is a =
small
sect or offshoot
of Buddhism and hence must also be considered a =
religion.
Mark J
------
=_NextPart_000_01BB61C8.BD0FBFA0
Content-Type:
application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
base64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------
=_NextPart_000_01BB61C8.BD0FBFA0--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 14:18:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: zen
In a 1959 essay
entitled "The Square Roots of Zen," Nancy Wilson Ross
says, "Zen,
although considered a religion by its followers, has no sacred
scriptures whose
words are law; no fixed canan; no rigid dogma; no Saviour
or Divine Being
on whose favor or through whose intercession one's
eventual
salvation is predicated. The absence of attributes common to all
other religious
systems lends Zen a certain air of freedom which many
modern people
obviously find attractive." (_Horizon_ 1.6 (July 1959):
72).
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:06:17 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Beatific
Dogs and Burroughs: THE CAT INSIDE
> On the
dogs/beat note, check out what Bill had to say in _The Cat Inside_
> about
domesticated dogs. It's a hoot.
>
> William
Miller
>
The Cat Inside is
great, concerning dogs AND cats. I'm
wondering if the
US edition of The Cat Inside is as short as the
German edition I
own. So could anyone give me the information, how
many of these
wonderful prose sketches are contained within the US
edition ?
Jens Moellenhoff
Email:
jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
jmoellen@sun1.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
Internet:
http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German Language)
University of
Munich, Germany
*** Language is a
Virus from Outer Space ***
*** William S. Burroughs ***
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 19:02:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Darius A. Yasiejko"
<Derangel@AOL.COM>
Subject: JK poetry contest..
Does any one know
of the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize?? I
was wondering if
anyone had any
information on the contest.. If you do please e-mail me at
Derangel@aol.com It would be greatly appreciated.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:10:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: JK poetry contest..
In-Reply-To:
<960625190227_339473695@emout10.mail.aol.com> from "Darius A.
Yasiejko" at Jun 25, 96
07:02:28 pm
> Does any one
know of the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize??
I was wondering if
> anyone had
any information on the contest.. If you do please e-mail me at
>
Derangel@aol.com It would be greatly
appreciated.
I forgot to put
this info into my Beat News page (I saw the info a
while ago) but if
somebody posts it here, I'll put it there.
I'm pretty sure
it's the folks in Lowell (Mark Hemenway, are you there?)
who are running
it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
Ran into the devil, babe, he loaned me
twenty bills
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 08:26:57 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: JK Poetry Contest..
Hi Folks...
Here are the
guidelines for the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. Everything
you need to know
is here, but if you have any questions, let me know.
Levi, I will send
you a word 6.0 version separately.
Thanks. Don't
forget the 9th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival
3-6 October.
**********
8th ANNUAL JACK
KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE
Experienced and
emerging writers are invited to submit written works in
competition for
the 8th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. This Prize
will consist of a
$500 honorarium and an invitation to present the prize
winning
manuscript at a public reading during the 9th Annual Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival in Lowell, MA from 3 through 6 October 1996.
SUBMISSIONS MUST
MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:
1. All works must be in English and not
previously published.
2. Submissions will be accepted between 1
April 1996 and 1 August
1996. Entries
postmarked before 1 April 1996 and after 1 August 1996 will
not be accepted.
The deadline for all entries is 1 August 1996.
3. The author's name must not appear
anywhere on the manuscript.
4. Submissions must be accompanied by a 3x5
index card containing the
author's name,
address, telephone number and manuscript title.
5. We are unable to return any manuscripts.
Authors will retain all
rights and
privileges to their work including full copyright protection.
6. An entry fee of $5.00 must accompany each
submission. Please make
checks payable
to: LOWELL CELEBRATES KEROUAC!
8. Submissions must meet the following
format requirements:
FICTION:
a. Submit one, typed, double-spaced
copy of your manuscript;
b. Your entry
must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a novel; or
a maximum of
three (3) short stories with a combined length of thirty
pages or less.
POETRY:
a. Submit one typed copy of your
manuscript;
b. Your entry
must not exceed eight (8) poems with a combined length of 15
pages or less. No
entry may exceed fifteen (15) pages.
NON-FICTION:
a. Submit one typed, double-spaced copy
of your manuscript;
b. Your entry
must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a volume,
or a maximum of
three (3) essays with a combined length of thirty (30)
pages or less.
9. Submit all
manuscripts to:
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize
P.O. Box 8788
Lowell, MA
01853-8788
10. Authors will
receive notification of the prize winner by September 15,
1996.
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize is sponsored by Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc (a
non-profit organization), The Estate of Jack and Stella
Kerouac,
Middlesex Community College, and the University of Massachusetts
at Lowell.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:55:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
On Sun, 23 Jun
1996 19:06:17 -0400 JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
wrote:
> The Cat
Inside is great, concerning dogs AND cats. I'm
> wondering if
the US edition of The Cat Inside is as short as the
> German
edition I own. So could anyone give me the information, how
> many of
these wonderful prose sketches are contained within the US
> edition ?
I have the first
edition Viking Penguin from 1992 and there's a grand
total of 94 pages
of those wonderful little prose sketches. I have also
had the
priviledge of seeing one of the VERY first, limited edition
copies from
Grenfell Press in 1986. Only 133 copies were made and my
university
library has one in the rare book collection. It's No. 99
(Canadian
University, greatest hockey player ever, co-incidence? I think
not. (One for all
you numerologists out there ;)) and signed by Burroughs
and Gysin. There
is actually an even more limited edition, namely the
last 20 or so of
the 133, which have some kind of gold stitching or
something like
that.
The Grenfell _Cat
Inside_ was a very large book, about a foot wide and two
feet tall
(somewher in that neighbourhood anyway) made out of cloth
paper, and each
page appeared to be torn individually as opposed to cut.
There were many
more Gysin illustrations than appear in the Viking
edition. All of
the illustrations are similar to the one on the cover of
the Viking - ink
smears with feline features.
Picking out the
cat from the blotch is very much akin to how Burroughs
paints now. Well,
not how he paints, but how he values his paintings. If
he can see
something, or find a face or a person from a dream, or a
character in his
writing within the seemingly random streaks of paint,
then it is a
successful painting, otherwise, he discards it and tries again.
To see more on
Burroughs's ideas about painting see _Painting and Guns_
from Hanuman
Books.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:36:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Was Jack self destructive?
Please don't kill
the messenger just give your opinion. Phil
I you feel Jack
was self destructive what caused him to feel that way.
Did he have a
reason to drink himself to death? Can there ever be a reason
for that?
1 Strict French
Catholic roots fighting internal homoerotic desires or just
strong sexual
desires.Tormented by what's right and wrong
2 rejected over
and over by mainstream publishers piss poor reviews constant
rejection (even
by friends) when he knows he is a genius.
3 Felt like he
didn't do enough in the war effort,Sammy and John two of his
closest friends
are killed, he served but not up to par with what his
friends have
seen, Billy a tail gunner,Tony OSS officer,Joe photographer on
bombing runs
4 Gerard dead,
Father dead, Caroline dead ,Neal dead,others dead
5 Fill in the
blank- give some input
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 08:52:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Was Jack self destructive?
Some scholars
suggest that Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome- caused by
Gerard's death,
his father's death and other things are one of the root
causes of Jack's
drinking.
Mark hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:57:00 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Was Jack self destructive?
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:36:14 -0400
from <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
On Wed, 26 Jun
1996 22:36:14 -0400 Phil Chaput said:
>Please don't
kill the messenger just give your opinion. Phil
>
>I you feel
Jack was self destructive what caused him to feel that way.
>Did he have a
reason to drink himself to death? Can there ever be a reason
>for that?
>
>
>1 Strict
French Catholic roots fighting internal homoerotic desires or just
>strong sexual
desires.Tormented by what's right and wrong
>
>2 rejected
over and over by mainstream publishers piss poor reviews constant
>rejection
(even by friends) when he knows he is a genius.
>
>3 Felt like
he didn't do enough in the war effort,Sammy and John two of his
>closest
friends are killed, he served but not up to par with what his
>friends have
seen, Billy a tail gunner,Tony OSS officer,Joe photographer on
>bombing runs
>
>4 Gerard
dead, Father dead, Caroline dead ,Neal dead,others dead
>
>5 Fill in the
blank- give some input
Yea, he was in
physical and emotional pain and the booze which helped ease that
pain at first later made it even worse. But he was addicted -- couldn't live
with it and
couldn't live without it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 05:31:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: French version of _The Job_
I recently found
in my University library a copy of the original French
edition of Daniel
Odier's interviews with Burroughs (_Entretiens avec
William
Burroughs_ Paris: Editions Pierre Belfond, 1969) that was later
issued in English
as _The Job_. I discovered that, while the questions
were the same,
WSB's answers were often very different in the French than
what they were in
the English. I haven't gone thru it all yet, but some
of the
differences are interesting:
<< Q: You
wrote: "Writing is fifty years behind painting." How can the gap
be closed?
[from _Entretiens
avec William Burroughs_ p.18]
A: I did not
write that, it was Brion Gysin, a painter. He meant that
techniques of
montage had already been used in painting and that
painting has a
much clearer idea of the nature of its mediums and of the
ways in which
they can be used. I think the split between writing and
painting will
remain until writers get some idea of what words are. For
the moment, they
have no idea. There exists a set of very clearly
formulated
theories on the nature of color. As Brion Gysin said, "Color is
a comet's
tail." Words are certainly associated with sound like color is
associated with
light. But the precise association, what words are, is an
unresolved
question. I regret that writers do not know what their means
are, and until
they know this, they will hardly be able to catch up with
painting.
[from _The Job_
(Penguin ed.) p.27-8]
A: I did not
write that. Mr. Brion Gysin who is both painter and writer
wrote
"writing is fifty years behind painting." Why this gap? Because the
painter can touch
and handle his medium and the writer cannot. The
writer does not
yet know what words are. He deals only with
abstractions from
the source point of words. The painter's ability to
touch and handle
his medium led to montage techniques sixty years
ago. It is to be
hoped that the extension of cut-up techniques will lead to
more precise
verbal experiments closing this gap and giving a whole
new dimension to
writing. These techniques can show the writer what
words are and put
him in tactile communication with his medium. This
in turn could
lead to a precise science of words and show how certain
word combinations
produce certain effects on the human nervous
system. >>
He seems much
more certain in the latter answer than in the former about
the role of the
cut-up method....I suspect his greater assurance comes
from the
introduction of his "word as a virus" theory, which (at least as
far as I've read)
seems absent in the earlier French. Does anyone know
exactly when WSB
first came up with the word-as-virus idea? Sometime
around 1970
perhaps? And did he get any impetus for this theory from his
study of
Scientology? (The "reactive mind," etc.)
***
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
"...the
water from the stream, which was
cold and pure
like snow and the crystal-
lidded eyes of
heaven."
***
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 05:53:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: New Burroughs books?
I see the latest
edition of Books in Print lists two WSB books as
forthcoming.
--What's
apparently a second volume of letters, due out next summer
--A book called
_Evil River_.
The only place in
WSB's work I remember seeing the phrase "evil river" in
in _The Cat
Inside_ p. 49: "I don't think anyone could write a completely
honest
autobiography. I am sure no one could bear to read it: *My Past
Was an Evil
River.*" So is this book some sort of autobiography? Or is it
about the Duad
perhaps? Anyone have any further info on these books?
Also, Victor
Bockris' _With William Burroughs: A Report from the Bunker_
is supposedly going
to be reissued....
***
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
"...inky
blue hues like that apocalyptic-
end-of-the-world blue light, the light of
subterranean stars, we've all seen in
tunnels
especially subway tunnels--"
***
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 06:57:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beatific Dogs and Burroughs: THE CAT
INSIDE
In a message
dated 96-06-25 11:37:01 EDT, Jens wrote:
>The Cat
Inside is great, concerning dogs AND cats. I'm
>wondering if
the US edition of The Cat Inside is as short as the
>German
edition I own. So could anyone give me the information, how
>many of these
wonderful prose sketches are contained within the US
>edition ?
>
>
>Jens
Moellenhoff
>
>Email:
>jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
>jmoellen@sun1.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
>
>Internet:
>http://www.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German Language)
>
>University of
Munich, Germany
>
>*** Language
is a Virus from Outer Space ***
>*** William S. Burroughs ***
>
>
===========================================================
A quick glance at
my copy (a very slim hardback) --
94 pages,
apparently 94 "prose sketches".
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 06:57:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Libraries and Beat Books
Hello folks.
William Miller
here.
On a slightly
different note, _The Cat Inside_ is the longest surviving
Burroughs book in
our public library. (A close second is
_The Third
Mind_...) It is surviving theft, I mean to say. A quick glance through the
catalog reveals
dozens of titles by Burroughs and Kerouac which are ClmsLst
(Claims Lost) or
Missing or ClmsRtd (Claims Returned).
I'm postulating that
_TCI_ has
survived so long because it's categorized as a Biography, away from
the Fiction under
F BUR... (and away from browsers who don't locate books by
author in the
catalog)
Stealing from libraries. I think they should be shot. Yasss. Heh heh.
I think it's a
shame, and I wonder sometimes what sort of company i have in
Beat fans. (not you fine folks on the list, of course,
but the ones who
visit my
library...)
I found out about
Burroughs, and had my interest in him stoked considerably,
by finding and
reading _Literary Outlaw_. If it had not
been on the shelf at
the library, I'd
still be missing out on this great material....
Has anyone else
noticed this situation about Beat Books in Libraries ?
Do any of you
work in libraries?
William Miller
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 07:15:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Libraries and Beat Books
at our local
library here, almost all of Kerouac's books have been stolen - On
the Road, etc.
Strangely, though Dr. Sax remains... perhaps it isn't
"mainstream"
or well known enough to steal...?
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:30:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Libraries and Beat Books
Yes, I work in a
college library and friends have asked me if I could rip off
some of the books
in our beat collection (mostly Burroughs). I said no, of
course. Though I
don't consider myself any kind of role model for morality, one
of the few things
I consider sacred are the books in a library.
I am sure it is
easy for a few people to justify stealing beat books from a
library, claiming
poverty or thinking it is the cool thing to, or even what the
Beats would do
themselves (well, maybe Corso would). But yeah, a theft could
prevent any young
(or old) kid from that first eye awakening or satori
sensation of
experiencing these writers for the first time. I too, remember
having those
experiences of discovery with different writers thanks to a
library. So I
have to agree, in many cases the Beats are the popular ones to be
stolen. But for
some strange reason, Abbie Hoffman's STEAL HIS BOOK, remains on
the shelf.
Remember too,
that books go out of print and cannot always be easily replaced.
So don't steal!
Bad karma, like kicking a puppy!
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 07:22:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Taylor
<TAYLORJB@VUCTRVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Libraries and Beat Books
In-Reply-To:
<960628065718_423511503@emout10.mail.aol.com>
On Fri, 28 Jun
1996, William Miller wrote:
> On a
slightly different note, _The Cat Inside_ is the longest surviving
> Burroughs
book in our public library. (A close
second is _The Third
>
Mind_...) It is surviving theft, I mean
to say.
>
> Stealing
from libraries. I think they should be
shot. Yasss. Heh heh.
>
> Has anyone
else noticed this situation about Beat Books in Libraries ?
>
> Do any of
you work in libraries?
I work in a
university library, which is probably a lot different from a
public library,
since we have the power to withhold important
things--like
degress--from patrons who don't pay (cost of book+$15 late
fee+$30
processing fee) for their lost library
books. So theft
is not much of a problem here. I don't think we've lost a
single Burroughs,
Kerouac, or even Bukowski book in several years.
***
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
"'In the
beginning was the Word and the
Word *was*
God.' And what does that make
us?
Ventriloquist's dummies."
***
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:22:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Libraries and Beat Books
On Fri, 28 Jun
1996 08:22:43 -0400 Jeff Taylor
<TAYLORJB%VUCTRVAX.BITNET@qucdn.queensu.ca>
wrote:
> I work in a
university library, which is probably a lot different from a
> public
library, since we have the power to withhold important
> things--like
degress--from patrons who don't pay (cost of book+$15 late
> fee+$30
processing fee) for their lost library
> books. So
theft is not much of a problem here. I don't think we've lost a
> single
Burroughs, Kerouac, or even Bukowski book in several years.
The situation is
not much different at our university library. All the
Burroughs books
except for Nova Express and Naked Lunch have been
scoffed. If our
library actually had all the books that are listed in the
stacks it would
be a great resource. Unfortunately anything of interest
that isn't
protected by the sanctity of our rare book collection has been
stolen. Nothing
is more annoying than when I see something like _Time_
from C-Press 1965
listed, feel the elation at finding something so rare,
and then discover
when I look up the availablility that it is in regualar
circulation, and
therefore missing. I actually discusse this very same
despicable
situation off the list with another list member a while back.
Every time I
think of it a little roiling pit of rage stirs in my
stomach,
"Aaarrrrgggghhh!"
Sorry, have to calm
down here. Anyhow, if it weren't for library thieves
The University of
Waterloo library would have copies of _the book of
breeething_,
_Time_, _The Third Mind_, _Cobble Stone Gardens_, _Ah Pook
Is Here_ and
_White Subway_; a very respectable collection of small
press, limited
edition books. Thankfully someone had the insight when it
was needed to put
_APO-33_, _Dead Star_, _Darazt: An Anthology_, a first
edition _The Cat
Inside_, and a first edition _the book of breeething_
(the one
mentioned above was the Blue Wind reprint) in to the Rare Book
Collection.
So, yes, it is
awful that people steal books from libraries, although I
think part of the
reason the Beats are so often lifted is that they have
always been
identified with subversive elements of society, and what could
be more
subversive than stealing books from a Government sponsored
institution,
Yee-haa stick it to the Man! ;-) ;-) (heavy dose of sarcasm)
I'm going to go
do something relaxing before I get all upset at the
deplorable number
of Burroughs books missing from our library...
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:49:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Satori In Paris <fwd>
Hey everybody, a
list-member in distress couldn't get the message
through, so she
asked me to post it:
On Fri, 28 Jun
1996 09:37:47 -0400 Shar Fitzpatrick
<sfitzpat@pepps.pepperdine.de>
wrote:
> Hello
all. I need your assistance. I am going to Paris tonight at
> midnight
which is 3 in LA, 4 in AZ, 5 in TX, and 6 in NY in the
> afternoon/evening. I wanted to visit all the places/churches JK
went
> when he
tried to find out his ancestry in Satori in Paris. I checked
all
> the wed
sites and only a few listed this particular book, which is
great
> although it
was later. Anyway, if you could help
me...Thanks, Shar
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:27:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dolores Neese <dolores@CRL.COM>
Subject: Re: New Burroughs books?
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@listserv.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.960628054308.539707480A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
I read the
Bockris book several months ago. It was very, very good.
D.
>
> Also, Victor
Bockris' _With William Burroughs: A Report from the Bunker_
> is
supposedly going to be reissued....
>
> ***
> Jeff Taylor
>
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
> "...inky
blue hues like that apocalyptic-
>
end-of-the-world blue light, the light of
> subterranean
stars, we've all seen in
> tunnels
especially subway tunnels--"
> ***
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:02:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Libraries and Beat Books
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:22:24 -0400
from
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Putting books in
special collections is no guarantee that they won['t be stolen
either.
Back in 1972, when I was writing my master's thesis on Kerouac, Excer
pts From Visions
of Cody had been stolen from special collections at Columbia,
Harvard & U
of Pennsylvania. Go figure!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:37:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Libraries and theft
I work for the
Louisville Free Public Library and theft is a sad fact of life
that,
unfortunately now extends to videos and audio tapes, the Kerouac tapes
in
particular. We have restocked the
Penguin Editions of Kerouac's books, but
a lot of our
Ginsberg material, like the "Howl" drafts with notes, is long
gone.
We have had a lot
of problems in Louisville trying to convince the community
about the need
for a library. Our funding is woefully
inadequete and a tax
referendum for
the library was voted down. There is
also an element that
chooses to not
only steal but to vandalize. A number of
books having to do
with AIDS,
homosexuality and President Clinton have been stolen, had
chapters torn
out, or, in the case of the President, had all kinds of
inappropriate
remarks about his wife inked in the paragraphs (we did however,
catch this
guy). An ultra-right fundamentalist
group has even tried to link
us to NAMBLA and
the persecution of Christians. This group does not seem to be
sophisticated
enough to even know about the Beats, however.
They always seem
to target
children's books and claim that we are under Satan's influence.
Paul
p.s. Prozac
spelled backwards is Ukranian for Lucifer.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:54:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Libraries and theft
Here is a related
phenonemon that I encountered way too many times.
You spend a lot
of time going through indexes or resources and find
articles or book
reviews in old magazines. You go find
the old issue on
the stacks open
to the page where it should be and the article about
kerouac is torn
out. Just ripped out.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:34:34 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: beep <MULBPOLL@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Libraries and theft
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:54:18 -0700
from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
I've worked at
university libraries for eight years now and have
encountered some
of the most creative ways to steal books, but
there's one
method I've learned to just laugh at (then take the
book back): a
patron thinks the security system is linked to the
barcode, rips the
barcode out, and proceeds through the front door
as if nothing's
wrong. The shock on their face when the alarm goes
off is funny
enough, but when they try to *lie* their way through
("I didn't
know it was in my backpack...oh, I meant to check that
out...") is
the best as the guard opens the book and finds a ripped
backcover where
the barcode used to reside.
I think someone
said this earlier, but it bears repeating: if only
people realized
they're hurting themselves when they do this (raising
taxes, tuition,
fees, to replace the books)!!
Just my 2 cents
worth. I shall return to lurkdom now.
beep
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 18:48:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ben Moore <ARoadToad@AOL.COM>
Subject: Cassavetes' Shadows
This posting is
sightly off-topic, but thought it might be of interest to
some.
I just found
Cassavetes' Shadows at my video store. Apparently they have
finally released
it on video this year. Although not really a beat film, it
was filmed in
1959 from a script "improvised" by Cassavetes and presents a
glimpse of life
among the younger generation in New York at that time.
It's his first
film, crude, New York school style
filmmaking, but gave me a
genuine feel for
the times.
Ben Moore
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 16:23:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Dolores Neese <dolores@CRL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassavetes' Shadows
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@listserv.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<960630184839_344590151@emout12.mail.aol.com>
I saw the film,
Shadows, when it first came out. I was in my senior year
at high school,
and spent a lot of time after school hanging out at a
nearby coffee
house, which was the cool thing to do for the
acting/theater
crowd at my high school. The anticipation for this film
was great, and we
all thought it was fantastic! Being on the west coast
and Cassavetes'
film being about the east coast, well, we thought the
people in New
York were the greatest thing going!
Dolores
On Sun, 30 Jun
1996, Ben Moore wrote:
> This posting
is sightly off-topic, but thought it might be of interest to
> some.
>
> I just found
Cassavetes' Shadows at my video store. Apparently they have
> finally
released it on video this year. Although not really a beat film, it
> was filmed
in 1959 from a script "improvised" by Cassavetes and presents a
> glimpse of
life among the younger generation in New York at that time.
>
> It's his
first film, crude, New York school style
filmmaking, but gave me a
> genuine feel
for the times.
>
> Ben Moore
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 16:07:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Libraries and theft
Hello folks.
William Miller
here.
I'm glad (or
perhaps sad) that "beat books and libraries" touched a nerve.
Apparently the beats are widely stolen. What's truly tragic about library
book theft,
especially in the case of the beat authors, is that the books are
FREE OF CHARGE to
begin with, if the person would only return the books.
It's not like the man is trying to stick it to
these poor "beatnik" kids.
They can check them out FOR FREE. Their plea of poverty is pitiful,
ignorant, and
cowardly.
Unfortunately,
beat books can be stolen WITHOUT being checked out, that's the
deal at college
libraries I suppose. (half of the
"gone" books at our public
library are
"missing", the others are "claimed lost" or "claimed
returned").
i'm almost
through with Jack Black's _You Can't Win_, and it's well
worthwhile. He uses the phrase "On the Road"
early on to describe his
wandering
down-and-out ways (and this book, of course, precedes JK), and I've
now read about
the original Johnson Family and Salt Chunk Mary (I guess Bill
just borrowed
them....). It's quite a trip.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 03:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: bozokitty
<jennifer_bozokitty@USA.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Lenore Kandel
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
Phil--
I work for a
publishing company & we're doing a book on Women of the
Beat--I'll e-mail
you some info within the next coupla days...she's in it &
I know we've
contacted her...
--
/\____/\
| o
o |
=(_)=
--------------- jennifer
U
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 16:20:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: The Lowes <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Burroughs & Carl Solomon--
Anybody so
inclined is cordially invited to check in rec.arts.books.marketplace
today for books
for sale by/related to Uncle Bill, Claude Pelieu & Carl
Solomon.
<g>
Thanks--
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 17:01:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Lenore Kandel
At 03:31 AM
7/2/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Phil--
>I work for a
publishing company & we're doing a book on Women of the
>Beat--I'll
e-mail you some info within the next coupla days...she's in it &
>I know we've
contacted her...
>--
>/\____/\
>| o
o |
> =(_)=
--------------- jennifer
> U
>
>Great, that
book sounds interesting. Are you contacting Joy Walsh of the
Moody Street
Irregulars? I was also wondering what she is doing these days.
How soon before
that book is published and available? Thanks, I'll look
forward to
getting that info. Here is my address:
Philip J.
Chaput
19 Wannalancit
St.
Lowell, Mass.
01854
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 18:27:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Oops sorry!Lenore Kandel
Didn't realize I
was sending that last message to the entire list.I thought
it was a private
e-mail I was responding to. I guess I should look at the
address more
carefully. Sorry folks. Have a happy fourth of July.Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 17:13:51 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
Hello,
Has anyone heard
the CD by SEVEN SOULS called MATERIAL (Virgin Records)? It's a
fine piece of
music, hard to describe, sounding like you just walked into an
Islamic disco bar
where William S. Burroughs is giving a reading. I guess that
describes it
fairly well, Islam influenced music with Burroughs reading in the
back ground. The
mix is good, I would buy the music and the reading as seperate
CDs even. A much
better partnership than WSB with Cobain (phew!).
Anyway...when I
bought this CD recently, the cashier at the music store said
that SEVEN SOULS
had just gone out of print, so if you are a fan of Burroughs
and or Eastern
music, I would grab one if you see it. Any opinions from anyone
who has heard it?
Dave Breithaupt
PS, hey Water
Row, do you have this CD (above) in stock?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 19:06:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
Regarding Seven
Souls' recording titled Material (with William Burroughs), we
have the cassette
in stock now and have more CDs
coming in any
day.
Thanks, Dave B.,
and a tip of the beret to you!
Jeffrey
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 21:04:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Publications
I wanted to let
everyone know about a new publication from Water Row Press
that will be
available in a few months:
"Beat
Speak" : An Illustrated Glossary,
Circa 1956-1959.
In her new
illustrated glossary, "Beat Speak," artist Ashleigh Talbot has
collected over 80
Beatnik terms, defined them, and drawn her artistic
interpretations.
The result is a fun-filled yet serious Beat extravaganza all
Beat Generation
fans are sure to enjoy. Over 100 illustrations. 8-1/2" x 11".
170 pages.
Beautifully bound in leatherette hardcover binding.
Available in two
editions:
1. Hardcover
trade edition and
2. Limited
edition of 100 numbered copies signed by the author/artist.
Contact us here
at Water Row Press for more information, including price.
Many thanks -
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 10:27:48 -0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bonnie Lee Howard
<howardb@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Summer Edition of BLUE PENNY QUARTERLY
FYI: The summer
edition of Blue Penny Quarterly is out now, and can be
found at:
http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/bpq/front-page.html
There's a review
in there of The Beat Experience CD-ROM, if anyone
wants to read it.
Bonnie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 15:28:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: michael paul wakeford
<mwakefor@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac's Grave
Does anybody know
of any publication with pictures, text, etc., of Jack
Kerouac's grave
in Lowell? I'm working on a paper on the
Beats in
American public
memory and would be really interested in info on this or
other
suggestions. Thanks for any help.
Mike Wakeford
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 17:46:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: MLowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Grave--
There is a very
good photograph of Bob Dylan & Allen Ginsberg sitting at
Kerouac's grave
published in Ginsberg's "First Blues" (Full Court Press).
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 18:25:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Grave
At 03:28 PM
7/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anybody
know of any publication with pictures, text, etc., of Jack
>Kerouac's
grave in Lowell? I'm working on a paper
on the Beats in
>American
public memory and would be really interested in info on this or
>other
suggestions. Thanks for any help.
>
>Mike Wakeford
>
>Very good
pictures of the gravesite are available in the "Rolling Thunder
Review" a
book about Bob Dylan's tour in 1976. That book is available from
Waterrow books.
He probably knows about other shots as well I'm sure. He has
an amazingly good
collection of beat books.His e-mail is Waterrow@aol.com
Water Row Books
P.O. Box 438
Sudbury, MA 01776
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 17:22:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Grave
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.960706152526.28558C-100000@othello.ucs.indiana.edu>
from "michael paul wakeford" at Jul 6,
96 03:28:26 pm
> Does anybody
know of any publication with pictures, text, etc., of Jack
> Kerouac's
grave in Lowell? I'm working on a paper
on the Beats in
There's a picture
on my website, in the fourth part of my interview
with Neal
Cassady's son John. It was taken by
John's girlfriend Pat
Gallagher when
she was in Lowell. Direct URL is:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/JCI/JCInterview.html
And check for the
4th section, called "Odds and Ends".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ran into the devil, babe, he loaned me
twenty bills
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 12:20:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christa D. Neu"
<NEUCD@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Grave
I got a book in
Lowell while I was there last summer called _Visions of
Lowell_ which I
bought specifically because it had a shot of the grave in it.
It has photos of Kerouac's homes and haunts,
and text about the
photos...kind of
a guide book to Lowell. Written by John
J Dorfner, forward
by Ginsberg.
Cooper Street
Publications...isbn 0-9636046-7-8.
Christa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 09:04:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: NANCY GRACE
<NGrace@ACS.WOOSTER.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac conference
Can anyone give
me information about the U of Mass Kerouac conference that
I heard was
taking place this fall. I also heard
that they are still
accepting paper
proposals through July, and I would like to submit but need
the who, when,
where, etc. Thanks much for any help
with this. Nancy
Grace, The
College of Wooster, Wooster, Ohio
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 12:39:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Grave
All of the
Dylan-Ginsberg photos at Kerouac's grave in Lowell come from
Dylan's 4-hour
movie "Renaldo & Clara", in which Dylan and Ginsberg talk
about graves they
have visited. Ginsberg says that he layed a copy of
_Howl_ on
Baudelaire's grave, and asks Dylan what graves he's visited.
Dylan replies
(enigmatic as ever) "I want to be buried in an unmarked
grave." They
then walk around the Catholic grotto in Lowell and ginsberg
translates all
the French stations for Dylan. Great stuff.
There is also a
picture of Dylan and Ginsberg at Kerouac's grave on the
cover of _The
Beat Vision_. I used that cover to find the grave when I
was in Lowell, by
looking at the trees and houses in the background. Even
though 20 years
had passed, the background scenery in the ole Edson
Cemetary hadn't
changed that much.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 14:00:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: MS TERESA M GIORDANO <TeresaGiordano@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Lowell Festival
Can anyone send
me any information about the Lowell
festival/conference
that happens annually? I'd like dates,
publications or
phone numbers where more info or schedules might be
found, anything
pertinent to getting there and knowing what's going
on.
Thanks,
Teresa Giordano
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 14:10:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Grave
OK, here is yet
another contribution to the list of sources for shots of
Kerouac's grave.
If this has been mentioned already, please excuse, but there
is a really fine
shot of his grave marker in BEATS & COMPANY; PORTRAIT OF A
LITERARY
GENERATION by Ann Charters. This is a fine book for any beat
collection, the
photos are great. However, I am not sure if this is still in
print but you can
always check a library if it hasn't been ripped off. The book
came out in 1986,
published by Dolphin Books, which I think is an imprint of
Doubleday &
Company. This is not to be confused with Ginsberg's Poetic
Snapshots which
came out much more recently. Good luck.
Dave B. in steamy
Ohio
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 14:25:22 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Lowell Festival
9TH ANNUAL LOWELL
CELEBRATES KEROUAC! FESTIVAL
3-6 OCTOBER 1996
LOWELL, MA
"Jack
Kerouac: Athelete and Scholar"
Featured Book:
Vanity of Duluoz
Walking Tours,
Bus Tours, Performance, Poetry, Small Press Book Fair,
Symposium.
Send me your
SNAIL MAIL address and I will put you on the mailing list.
More to come.
UMASS Lowell will
be hosting a conference on Beat Literature in
conjunction with
the festival. Friday 4 October. For details, write
Professor Hillary
Holladay, english Dept, UMASS Lowell, 1 University Ave,
Lowell, MA 01854.
Mark Hemenway
President, Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 18:11:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Festival
Join us in Jack
Kerouac's hometown, during the season he loved best...
The 9th
Annual Lowell Celebrates KEROUAC!
Festival
3-6 October
1996 LOWELL, MA
"I was going
home in October. Everybody goes home in October." On the Road
Millions of
people around the world have read and experienced Jack Kerouac's
books. Come share
that experience in his hometown at the 9th Annual Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival.
Each October,
Lowell, Massachusetts hosts Kerouac enthusiasts from around
the world for a
weekend of poetry, performance, companionship and ....Kerouac.
WALK DR SAX
STREETS WITH JACK KEROUAC....
Dr. Sax, Visions of Gerard, Maggie Cassidy,
Vanity of Duluoz, The Town and
The City- The
Lowell Jack Kerouac wrote about is still very much present.
The houses he
lived in, the sites he wrote about, the streets he walked are
here. The Grotto,
the Merrimack River, Moody Street Bridge, Textile Lunch,
the Pollard
Library... Strike out on your own with your favorite Lowell
novel as a guide
- or join one of many guided tours.
ENJOY A
PERFORMANCE BY YOUR FAVORITE BEAT MUSICIAN OR POET...
Patti Smith, Allen Ginsberg, Michael McClure,
Ray Manzarek, David Amram.
Gregory Corso and
Herbert Huncke have performed at the festival.
LEARN ABOUT JACK
KEROUAC AND THE BEATS ...
Attend a
symposium...pick up a book at the small press book fair... or just
listen in on the
conversations around you. Experience the rich cultural
heritage at the
source of Kerouac's genius. Leading Kerouac and beat
scholars from
around the country attend the festival.
SHARE THE BEAT
EXPERIENCE...
Read your own
work at an open microphone... visit the Kerouac Commemorative
at midnight... or
just hang out at one of the late night get- togethers.
Spend a few days
with people who share the enthusiasm, joyous spirit and
energy of Jack
Kerouac.
THE KEROUAC
COMMEMORATIVE
The Jack Kerouac
Commemorative is located in downtown Lowell at the
intersection of
Bridge and French Streets, near the former site of his
father's print
shop. Selected Kerouac passages, etched in eight red granite
pillars, stand as
a living monument to his art. The opening passages from
his five
"Lowell novels," as well as passages from On the Road. Lonesome
Traveler, Book of
Dreams and Mexico City Blues are inscribed on eight
triangular marble
columns. The arrangement of the columns and the surface
stones form a
kind of Buddhist-Christian mandala. The symmetrical cross and
diamond pattern
of The Commemorative is a meditation on
the complex
Buddhist and
Roman Catholic foundations of much of Jack's writing.
THE JACK KEROUAC
LITERARY PRIZE
Emerging and
established writers are invited to submit works of fiction,
non-fiction or
poetry for the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. The winner will
receive a $500
honorarium and an invitation to present the winning
manuscript at the
October Festival. The Prize is sponsored by Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc, The Estate of Jack and Stella Kerouac, Middlesex
Community College
and the University of Massachusetts-Lowell. For
guidelines, send
a SASE to The Jack Kerouac Literary Prize, P.O. Box 8788,
Lowell, MA 01853.
LOWELL CELEBRATES
KEROUAC!, INC
The Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival is produced by Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc., a non-profit corporation. Created to build the
Jack Kerouac
Commemorative, Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. is dedicated to
promoting the study
and enjoyment of Jack Kerouac's art through the festival
and other
projects.
Festival planning
is a year round process, and we need your help. Join us at
our meetings,
7:00 PM, on the third Thursday of every month, on the second
floor of the
Pollard Memorial Library, 401 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA.
For more information, call 508-458-1721
or email: Mark Hemenway at
mhemenway@igc.apc.org. or Phil Chaput at philzi@tiac.net
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc. is an independent, volunteer organization
and we depend on
your support to produce the festival. Send your
contributions to:
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc.
P.O. Box 1111
Lowell, MA 01853.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 18:14:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Festival
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc
P.O. Box 1111,
Lowell, MA 01853
Jack Kerouac:
Athlete and Scholar
9th Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival
3-6 October 1996
"The bus
roared on. I was going home. Everybody goes home in October." On
the Road
"L'autobus
prosegui rombando. Stavo tornando a casa in Octobre. Tutti
tornano a casa in
Octobre." Sulla Strada
"It was
beautiful with falling red leaves aching," Vanity of Duluoz
The Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival is an opportunity for
enthusiasts to
gather in his hometown during his favorite month to share the
unique experience
of Jack Kerouac's art.
The Festival is
organized and produced by Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc.,
an all volunteer,
community -based organization. This year is the 9th Annual
Festival. Our
goal in planning the weekend, is to capture the spontaneous,
joyful spirit of
Jack Kerouac's writing. Although the final schedule for the
weekend does not
emerge until late summer. Major events, have already been
identified.
Each year we
select a theme for the festival. The theme of the 9th Annual
Festival is
"Jack Kerouac: Athlete and Scholar." The featured book is Vanity
of Duluoz.
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize Announcement and Reception- The 9th Annual
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival will open on Thursday evening, 3 October
with the
announcement of the winner of the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize, and
presentation of
the winning manuscript at the Lowell Barnes & Noble Bookstore.
Memorial Mass for
Jack Kerouac- A memorial mass for Jack Kerouac will be
held at the St.
Louis Roman Catholic Church, the parish in which he spent
his earliest
years.
Beat Literature
Conference- The University of Massachusetts-Lowell will
present an
academic conference on Jack Kerouac and the Beat writers on
Friday, 4 October
at the University's South Campus. Leading scholars of beat
culture and
literature will present papers and ideas in symposia and panels
throughout the
day.
Kerouac Quilt.
Merrimack Valley poets will present a cycle of poetry
constructed
around a theme of Kerouac and quilts. The event will take place
in the New
England Quilt Museum, which is planning an exhibition of
specialty quilts
sponsored by the Smithsonian Institution, and a period
bedroom, much
like the one Jack might have slept in.
Kerouac
Documentary- Doug and Judy Sharples of Cottonwood Productions, will
preview their
film, "Go Moan for Man" during the festival. The movie visits
scenes from
"On the Road".
Feature
Performance- Performances by well-known beat personalities or
performers will
highlight Friday and Saturday evenings. Negotiations for
this year's
festival are under way. Allen Ginsberg, Patti Smith, Gregory
Corso, Herbert
Huncke, Ray Manzarek and Michael McClure have performed in
the past.
Small Press Book
Fair- The small press book fair is an opportunity to sample
regional small
press publications, and pick-up Kerouac books- new and rare.
Poetry at The
Rainbow Cafe- Authors read their works in the Kerouacian
ambiance of a
neighborhood tavern in "Little Canada." Everyone is welcome to
read their poetry
or prose, but time is limited, please reserve a spot ahead
of time.
Symposium- As
part of our mission to encourage the study and enjoyment of
Jack Kerouac's art,
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. sponsors an afternoon
symposium at a
downtown location. This year's event will feature Mr. Glenn
Stout who has
conducted extensive research into Kerouac's athletic career.
Walking Tours-
Walking tours of Kerouac sites in Lowell are conducted
throughout the
weekend. The tours change each year, but almost always
include: Our Lady
of Lourdes Grotto, the Watermelon Man Bridge, the
Merrimack River,
and many of the neighborhood sites Jack wrote about.
Bus Tours- Bus tours
of Lowell and Nashua, NH provide a more leisurely tour
sites in these
two Kerouac cities. Jack Kerouac's mother and father met and
the family,
including Gerard are buried in Nashua.
RESERVATIONS ARE
REQUIRED FOR ALL TOURS. ALL TOURS ARE IN ENGLISH. TOURS IN
FRENCH ARE
AVAILABLE ON REQUEST.
Open Microphone
at the Coffee Mill- Sunday afternoons are reserved for an
open microphone
reading and performance at the Coffee Mill in downtown
Lowell. Everyone
is welcome to read their work. Sip expresso while waiting
your turn at the
microphone. .
Many other
activities are available during the weekend:
Exhibits of first
edition beat publications and memorabilia.
Jack Kerouac's
rucksack and other personal items are on display at the
Working People
Exhibit, Lowell National Historical Park.
Edson Cemetery.
Jack Kerouac is buried in the Edson Cemetery just south of
Downtown Lowell.
The cemetery is open from sun-up to sun-down every day.
Music and
conversation- There will be many opportunities throughout the
weekend to share
your festival experience and enthusiasm for Jack Kerouac
while enjoying a
beer at local taverns and nightspots.
Festival planning
is a year round process, and we need your help. Join us at
our meetings,
7:00 PM, on the third Thursday of every month, on the second
floor of the
Pollard Memorial Library, 401 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA.
For more information, call 508-458-1721
or email: Mark Hemenway at
mhemenway@igc.apc.org. or Phil Chaput at philzi@tiac.net
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc. is an independent, volunteer organization
and we depend on
your support to produce the festival. Send your
contributions to:
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc.
P.O. Box 1111
Lowell, MA 01853.
***END***
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 22:18:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac conference
At 09:04 AM
7/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone
give me information about the U of Mass Kerouac conference that
>I heard was
taking place this fall. I also heard
that they are still
>accepting
paper proposals through July, and I would like to submit but need
>the who,
when, where, etc. Thanks much for any
help with this. Nancy
>Grace, The
College of Wooster, Wooster, Ohio
Grace, here is
the info on the symposium but the deadline for accepting
papers is fast
approaching so I suggest you get it in as soon as possible.
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!
P.O. Box 1111,
Lowell, MA 01853
PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE
RELEASE PRESS CONTACT: Hillary Holladay (508)934-4195
Mark Hemenway
(508)475-9090 or
(508)458-1721
PUBLIC INQUIRIES: (508)934-4195
UMASS- LOWELL
ANNOUNCES BEAT LITERATURE SYMPOSIUM FOR
KEROUAC FESTIVAL
LOWELL, MA. The
University of Massachusetts- Lowell announced plans for a
Beat Literature
Symposium to be conducted in conjunction with the Annual
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival. The Symposium will be held Friday, 4
October 1996 at
the UMASS-Lowell Campus.
Anyone wishing to
present papers should send a one-page proposal to
Professor Hillary
Holladay, English Department, UMASS-Lowell, Lowell, MA
01854 by 31 July
1996.
Submissions are
welcome on (but not limited to) the following topics:
Kerouac's Lowell Novels
Portrayals of Race, Gender, sexuality
ion Kerouac's fiction
Beat poets, especially Ginsberg, Corso.
Snyder
William S. Burroughs
Keoruac's spontaneous prose technique
This will be the
second Beat Symposium sponsored by the college. Last year's
event, also held
in conjunction with the Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
festival
attracted leading Kerouac and beat scholars from around the
country, and
featured presentations by Ann Charters, Joyce Johnson, and Ann
Douglas of
Columbia University.
Interest in the
beat writers is undergoing a revival. A reevaluation of the
influence of
their thought and writing on American culture is also under
way. The study
and analysis of their writing is achieving a new
respectability in
academic quarters. Major conferences at New York
University in
1994 and 1995 did a lot to encourage this trend.
"A forum for
serious discussion of beat contributions to our literature and
our culture is
needed." says Professor Hillary Hollady, who teaches a beat
literature course
at UMASS-Lowell and is organizing this year's festival,
"Certainly,
Lowell, the source of Jack Kerouac's inspiration is an
appropriate
location for such a forum, and timing the conference to coincide
with a festival
commemorating Kerouac's work is an appropriate time."
"The
conference is not limited to Kerouac topics," Hollady explained,"
We're
looking for
papers which will expand and energize all aspects of beat
scholarship."
For information
on the Conference, contact Professor Hillary Hollady,
English
Department, UMASS-Lowell, Lowell, MA 01854, 508-934-4195, email:
holladayh@woods.uml.edu.
Jack Kerouac was
born on March 12, 1922 in Lowell, Massachusetts to a
French-Canadian
Catholic family. A prolific poet and
novelist, he
chronicled his
childhood years in Lowell, and the adventures and experiences
of contemporaries
as they traveled throughout he US and the world. On the
Road, published
in 1957, brought him immediate fame , and Kerouac was
acclaimed the
voice of the Beat Generation. The city of Lowell and his
experiences
growing up in the Franco-American community here are central to
Jack Kerouac's
art and writings. Five of his 11 novels are set in Lowell,
and the city is
mentioned in all of his books. Jack Kerouac remains one of
the most
influential and inspirational of American writers.These novels are
read and
appreciated throughout the world.
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc., a non-profit corporation, produces the
Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival held each October in Lowell, MA.
Our mission is to
encourage the study and enjoyment of Jack Kerouac's art by
sharing the
Lowell experience with visitors and by educating local residents
about the
influence of Jack Kerouac on modern American culture and literature.
The 9th Annual
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival will be held October
1996. Planning
for this year's festival has already begun. The Festival
committee meets
the third Thursday of each month at 7:00 PM in the Pollard
Memorial Library
in Lowell. We need lots of help. Membership is open to
anyone interested
in working to celebrate the joyful spirit of Jack Kerouac.
For information
on membership, activities and meeting dates, write Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac!, Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853, call 508-458-1721, or email
Mark
Hemenway mhemenway@igc.apc.org. or Phil
Chaput e-mail philzi@tiac.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:16:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Beat Literature Symposium
U. MASS. LOWELL
SPONSORS SECOND ANNUAL BEAT LIT. SYMPOSIUM
Albert Gelpi, a national authority on
modern American literature and
professor of
English at Stanford University, will be the keynote speaker at
U. Mass. Lowell's
second annual Beat Literature Symposium on Friday, Oct. 4.
Gelpi will speak on the "Lowell
influence" apparent in Lowell native Jack
Kerouac's many
novels. Gelpi's talk is set for 2 p.m., and will be preceded
and followed by
scholarly panels on the writings of Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg,
William S.
Burroughs, and o
ther authors
associated with the Beat Movement.
Other scholars expected to speak during
the event include Ann Douglas of
Columbia
University, Joe Donahue of the University of the Pacific, and Ronna
Johnson of Tufts
University. In addition to panels by professional scholars,
there will also
be a panel
of undergraduate
papers with participants from U. Mass. Lowell and other
area
universities.
"We hope to attract a large
audience to all of the symposium events, just
as we did last
year," said symposium director Hilary Holladay, an assistant
professor of
American literature at U. Mass. Lowell. "College students love
Kerouac and the
other Beat a
uthors, and this
event is a wonderful opportunity for them to hear
cutting-edge
scholarship on their favorite authors."
The symposium is sponsored by U. Mass.
Lowell's English Department and the
Division of
Continuing Education. It is part of the city-wide Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! festival running Oct. 3 through 6. For symposium
registration
information, contact Kitty G
alaitsis in
Continuing Education at 508/934-2446.
---FOR IMMEDIATE
RELEASE--
Contact: Hilary
Holladay, English Dept., U. Mass. Lowell 01854,
508/934-4195,
e-mail: holladayh@woods.uml.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:15:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nels A Nelson <Nels68Me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's Grave--
In a message
dated 96-07-06 17:44:32 EDT, hdnfalls@POND.COM (MLowe) writes:
<< There is
a very good photograph of Bob Dylan & Allen Ginsberg sitting at
Kerouac's grave published in Ginsberg's
"First Blues" (Full Court Press).
>>
This photo also
appears in Arthur and Kit Knight's The Beat Vision, I think.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:47:17 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: scripts of Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
festival
Will there be any
scripts of the speeches held during the Kerouac
festival ?
Since I cannot
come to Lowell, but am very interested in this
happening, I
would be very glad, if there were any scripts available
via my English
bookseller in Munich.
Kind regards
Jens Moellenhoff
jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
jmoellen@sun1.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German)
*** Language is a
Virus from Outer Space - WSB ***
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:07:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: RANT for the renaissance performance in
New Orleans
This looks like
it will be one hell of a beat happening and I thought it
should be posted
here, Quite a lineup. Check it out.
RANT for the
renaissance, The Majic Bus, & TRIBE present VOICES WITHOUT
RESTRAINT 48-Hour
Non-Stop Music & Poetry INSOMNIACATHON at The New Orleans
Contemporary Arts
Centre and The Howlin Wolf Club August 16-18
PERFORMERS:
Amiri Baraka
(poet, NJ), David Amram (musician, NY), Diane di Prima (poet,
CA), Ed Sanders
(poet, NY), The Iguanas, Storeyville, E.
Ethelbert Miller
(poet, D.C.), Willie Smith (poet, CA), WAMO (poet, TX),
Robert Creeley
(poet, NY), Ramblin Jack Elliott (musician), Robert Palmer
(writer), Nicole
Blackman (poet, NYC), Hersch Silverman (poet, NJ) & Channel
Nine (musicians,
NY), Douglas Brinkley (writer, LA), Steve Dalachinsky
(poet, NY), Frank
Messina & Spoken Motion (poet/musicians, NY), Louis
Bickett
(poet/artist, KY), Yusef Komunyakaa (poet), Richard Hell
(poet/musician,
NY), Mark Reese (filmmaker: Premiere documentaries on Jackie
Robinson &
Roy Campanella), Chris Iovenko (filmmaker: Harry Crews
documentary),
MouthAlmighty & Bob Holman's THE UNITED STATES OF POETRY (New
Orleans
Premiere), Chris Felver (photographer/filmmaker, Premiere of
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti documentary), The Amazing Chan Klan (pop), The Black
Pig Liberation
Front (multi-media band of future here now, NY), Grand
Passion (new wave
from Northeast), Tyrone Cotton (blues), Susi Wood (KY
mountain folk),
Erik LaPrade (poet, NY), Brian Foye (poet/writer/Founder
Kerouac Festival,
MA), John Rechy (writer, CA), Andrei Codrescu (renaissance
man, LA), Jay
McInerney (writer), William S. Burroughs (live phone
conversation),
James Grauerholz (writer, KA), Ron Seitz (poet/writer, AZ),
Jim McCrary
(poet, KA), Ron Whitehead (poet/writer, KY), John Sinclair
(poet/musician,
LA), Dennis Formento (poet/writer, LA), Eleven Eleven (guilt
punk), Sander
Hicks (playwright/publisher, NY), Soft Skull Press (NY),
Little Molasses
Theatre Company (production of RAPID CITY, NY), Matt Kohn
(poet/photographer,
NY), Kalamu Yasalaam (poet/musician, LA), Denis Mahoney
(poet/musician,
RI), Arthur Pfister (poet, LA), Hozomeen Press (NYC, CT,
RI), Pop Rocket
Records (CT), Ring Tarigh (RI), White Fields Press (KY, TX),
the literary
renaissance (KY), COMPOST Magazine (NY, MA), Ralph Adamo (poet,
LA), W. Loran
Smith (poet, KY), Umar Aki Williams (poet, KY),
Rich Martin
(poet/musician,
CT), Kent Fielding (poet, AK), Todd Colby (poet, NY), John
Deer (low punk),
Anastosias Kozaitis (poet, NY), Kevin Gallagher (poet, NY),
Casey Cyr (poet,
NY), Phil Paradis (poet, KY), Lori Turner (poet, KY), The
New Orleans
Poetry Forum, MESECHABE (LA), SPLEEN (KY), GREENPEACE, Bops,
Crack, Boom!
Press (KY), Al McLaughlin (OH), Jordan Green (poet, KY), Will
Kotheimer
(poet/filmmaker, KY), Wendy-Charly Lemmon (poet, LA), Paul
McDonald (poet,
KY), NEMO (poet, NY), Annie McClanahan (poet, KY), Mickey
Hess (novelist,
KY), Michelle Fowler (poet, CO), Andrea Roney (poet, KY),
Heather Kolf
(poet, KY), IMPALA SUPER ( scruff punk), John Hagan (writer,
KY), Mike Forman
(poet/musician, KY), Bruce Beroff (poet, KY), Jeff Eckman
(poet, KY), Debi
Coombs (poet, KY), J. B. Wilson (poet, KY), Kevin Coombs
(poet, KY),
Rebekah Reeves (poet, KY), Paul Levitch (poet, KY), Luke Buckman
(poet,KY),
Deirdre Skaggs (poet, KY), Gui Stuart (poet, KY), Amanda Hammons
(poet, KY), David
Minton (poet), Kelly Render (blues & country musician,
KY), Matthew
Osborn (poet, KY), Randall Keenan (poet), Jason Powell (poet,
KY), Cotton
Seiler (poet, KA), Michael Leonard (writer, NY), Allison Bona
(poet, KY), Aaron
May (poet, KY), Margie Nicoll (poet, MA), Marina Karides
(poet, MA),
Danielle Legros Georges (poet, NY), John Ryan (poet, MA), Seth
Cohen (poet, KY),
Chris Kubicek
(poet, FL), Reverend Jayne Praxis (poet, KY), Kirstin Ogden
(poet, AK), Gene
Simmons (poet, AK), Kevin Johnson (poet, LA), Lee Grue
(poet/musician,
LA), TRIBE Performers, Dorothy Henriques (playwright, LA),
Paul Chasse
(poet/moto-biker, LA), Dr. Ahmos Zu-Bolton, LA), Christine
Trimbo (poet,
LA), David Rowe (poet, LA), Dr. Jerry McGuire (poet, LA), Anne
Marie (poet, LA),
John Bigunet (poet, LA), Cynthia Hogue (poet, LA), Kerry
Poree (poet, LA),
Barbara Lamont (poet/singer, LA), Nancy Harris (poet, LA),
Dell Hall (poet,
LA), Ben Gunn (poet/musician, LA) Andrea Gereighty (poet,
LA), Bonnie Fastring
(poet, LA), Nancy Cotton (poet, LA), Chris Champagne
(poet, LA), Stan
Bemis (poet, LA), Rene Broussard (video artist, LA), Mada
Plummer (poet,
LA), Keith Clayton (vibrphonist, LA), Karen Celestan (poet,
LA), Robin Harris
Thompson (singer/poet, LA), Kyla Thompsom (9 year old
singer/poet, LA),
Samara Jones (11 year old poet, LA), Michael Clatyon,
Valentine Pierce
(poet, LA), Kerry Poree (poet, LA), Quo Vadis Gex Breaux
(poet, LA), Ted
Graham (musician, LA), Gina Ferrera (poet, LA), Robert
Menuet (poet,
LA), Clara Connell (poet, LA), plus
more to be added plus
last minute
special guest appearances.
EVENT SPONSORS:
the literary
renaissance, White Fields Press, The Majic Bus, The Eisenhower
Center for
American Studies at The University of New Orleans, TRIBE
Magazine, The New
Orleans Contemporary Arts Center, The Howlin Wolf Club,
EXQUISITE CORPSE
Magazine, The City of New Orleans, The New Orleans Poetry
Forum.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:03:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rachel Ann Caldwell
<caldwer1@TIPO.TRANSCRIPTS.COM>
Subject: lowell '96
Hello everyone!! Is anyone out there going to the festival in
October this
year?
I'm going, and have no idea what to expect (although I'm extremely
excited!!) - Rachel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 12:21:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: lowell '96
At 11:03 AM
7/11/96 EST, you wrote:
> Hello everyone!! Is anyone out there going to the festival in
October
this
> year?
I'm going, and have no idea what to expect (although I'm extremely
> excited!!) - Rachel
>
>Rachel, I go
every year although I live in Lowell. Last year will be hard
to beat with
Patti Smith as the featured performer but every year Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac seems to come up with a great lineup. Plans for this
years festival
are not completed yet but when they are I will be posting
them to the
beat-l list. Last year one of my favorite things was "Sebastian
Sampas lost
poet" which was about Jack's boyhood spiritual brother and very
dear friend Sammy
Sampas. Jack was influenced a lot by Sam and young Tony
Sampas turned up
some poetry of his and also some correspondence to and from
Jack. It was a
great reading with friends of Jack and Sam from those days
giving their
input at the end of the show. Mark Hemenway does a great job
putting this
festival together every year and I think if you can make it you
will really enjoy
yourself. I will be posting the full schedule of events as
we get closer to
the festival. If you send your snail mail address to me I
will make sure
you get on the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Inc. mailing list.
Hope to see you
there. Phil Chaput-Lowell,Mass.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:36:06 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: new email
i was told to
pass along Ron Whitehead's new email address, apparently he hopes
to be back on by
September after the RANT for renaissance... anyways, here it
is:
RWhiteBone@worldnet.att.net
dig it, cats...
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:22:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: NEW ORLEANS BEAT EVENT
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: New Orleans Performer List
Date: 96-07-10 23:43:41 EDT
From: RWhiteBone
To: hasan@mail.bbsnet.com
RANT for the
renaissance, The Majic Bus, & TRIBE present VOICES WITHOUT
RESTRAINT 48-Hour
Non-Stop Music & Poetry INSOMNIACATHON at The New Orleans
Contemporary Arts
Center and The Howlin Wolf Club August 16-18
PERFORMERS:
Amiri Baraka
(poet, NJ), David Amram (musician, NY), Diane di Prima (poet,
CA),
Ed Sanders (poet,
NY), The Iguanas, Storeyville, E. Ethelbert Miller (poet,
D.C.), Willie
Smith (poet, CA), WAMO (poet, TX), Robert Creeley (poet, NY),
Ramblin' Jack
Elliott (musician, CA), Robert Palmer (writer), Nicole Blackman
(poet, NY),
Hersch Silverman (poet, NJ) & Channel Nine (musicians, NY),
Douglas Brinkley
(writer, LA), Steve Dalachinsky (poet, NY), Frank Messina &
Spoken Motion
(poet/musicians, NY), Louis Bickett & The Cultural Mudding
Ritual
(poet/artist, KY), Yusef Komunyakaa (poet), Richard Hell
(poet/musician,
NY), Mark Reese (filmmaker: Premiere documentary on Jackie
Robinson), Chris
Iovenko (filmmaker: Harry Crews documentary), MouthAlmighty
& Bob
Holman's THE UNITED STATES OF POETRY (New Orleans Premiere), Chris
Felver
(photographer/filmmaker, Premiere of Lawrence Ferlinghetti
documentary), The
Amazing Chan Klan (pop, KY), The Black Pig Liberation Front
(multi-media band
of future here now, NY), Grand Passion (new wave from
Northeast),
Tyrone Cotton (blues), Susi Wood (KY mountain folk), Erik LaPrade
(poet, NY), Brian
Foye (poet, writer/Founder Kerouac Festival, MA), John
Rechy (writer,
CA), Andrei Codrescu (renaissance man, LA), Jay McInerney
(writer), William
S. Burroughs II (live phone conversation), James Grauerholz
(writer, KA), Ron
Seitz (poet/writer, AZ), Jim McCrary (poet, KA), Ron
Whitehead
(poet/writer, KY), John Sinclair (poet/musician, LA), Dennis
Formento
(poet/writer, LA), Eleven Eleven (guilt punk, KY), Sander Hicks
(playwright/publisher,
NY), Soft Skull Press (NY), Little Molasses Theatre
Company
(production of RAPID CITY, NY), Matt Kohn (poet/photographer, NY),
Kalamu Yasalaam
(poet/musician, LA), Denis Mahoney (poet/musician, RI),
Arthur Pfister
(poet, LA), Hozomeen Press (NYC, CT, RI), Pop rocket Records
(CT), Ring Tarigh
(RI), White Fields Press (KY, TX), the literary renaissance
(KY), COMPOST
Magazine (NY, MA), Ralph Adamo (poet, LA), W. Loran Smith
(poet, KY), Umar
Aki Williams (poet, KY), rich Martin (poet/musician, CT),
Kent Fielding
(poet, AK), Todd Colby (poet, NY), John Deer (low punk),
Anastosias
Kozaitis (poet, NY), Kevin Gallagher (poet, NY), Casey Cyr (poet,
NY), Phil Paradis
(poet, KY), Lori Turner (poet, KY), The New Orleans Poetry
Forum, MESECHABE
(LA), SPLEEN (KY), GREENPEACE, Bops, Crack, Boom! Press
(KY), Al
McLaughlin (OH), Jordan Green (poet, KY), Will Kotheimer
(poet/filmmaker,
KY), Wendy-Charly Lemmon (poet, LA), Paul McDonald (poet,
KY), NEMO (poet,
NY), Annie McClanahan (poet, KY), Mickey Hess (novelist,
KY), Michelle
Fowler (poet, CO), Andrea Roney (poet, KY), Heather Kolf (poet,
KY), IMPALA SUPER
(scruff punk), John Hagan (writer, KY), Mike Forman
(poet/musician,
KY), Bruce Beroff (poet, KY), Jeff Eckman (poet, KY), Debi
Coombs (poet,
KY), J.B. Wilson (poet, KY), Kevin Coombs (poet, KY), Rebekah
Reeves (poet,
KY), Paul Levitch (poet, KY), Luke Buckman (poet, KY), Deirdre
Skaggs (poet,
KY), Gui Stuart (poet, KY), Amanda Hammons (poet, KY), David
Minton (poet,
KY), Kelly Render (blues & country musician, KY), Matthew
Osborn (poet,
KY), Randall Keenan (poet), Jason Powell (poet, KY), Cotton
Seiler (poet,
KA), Michael Leonard (writer, NY), Allison Bona (poet, KY),
Aaron May (poet,
KY), Margie Nicoll (poet, MA), Marina Karides (poet, MA),
Danielle Legros
Georges (poet, NY), John Ryan (poet, MA), Seth Cohen (poet,
KY), Chris
Kubicek (poet, FL), Reverend Jayne Praxis (poet, KY), Kirstin
Ogden (poet, AK),
Gene Simmons (poet, AK), Kevin Johnson (poet, LA), Lee Grue
(poet/musician,
LA), TRIBE Performers, Dorothy Henriques (playwright, LA),
Paul Chasse
(poet/moto-biker), LA), Dr. Ahmos Zu-Bolton, LA), Christine
Trimbo (poet,
LA), David Rowe (poet, LA), Dr. Jerry McGuire (poet, LA), Anne
Marie (poet, LA),
John Bigunet (poet, LA), Cynthia Hogue (poet, LA), Kerry
Poree (poet, LA),
Barbara Lamont (poet/singer, LA), Nancy Harris (poet, LA),
Dell Hall (poet,
LA), Ben Gunn (poet/musician, LA) Andrea Gereighty (poet,
LA), Bonnie
Fastring (poet, LA), Nancy Cotton (poet, LA), Chris Champagne
(poet, LA), Stan
Bemis (poet, LA), Rene Broussard (video artist, LA), Mada
Plummer (poet,
LA), Keith Clatyon (vibraphonist, LA), Karen Celesan (poet,
LA), Robin Harris
Thompson (singer/poet, LA), Kyla Thompsom (9 year old
singer/poet, LA),
Samara Jones (11 year old poet, LA), Michael Clatyon,
Valentine Pierce
(poet, LA), Kerry Poree (poet, LA), Quo Vadis Gex Breaux
(poet, LA), Ted
Graham (musician, LA), Gina Ferrera (poet, LA), Robert Menuet
(poet, LA), Clara
Connell (poet, LA), plus more to be added plus last minute
special guest
appearances.
EVENT SPONSORS:
the literary
renaissance, White Fields Press, The Eisenhower Center for
American Studies
& the Majic Bus at University of New Orleans, TRIBE
Magazine, The New
Orleans Contemporary Arts Center, The Howlin Wolf Club,
EXQUISITE CORPSE
Magazine, The City of New Orleans, The New Orleans Poetry
Forum.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:12:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: APOLOGIES!!
My apologies to
the list for duplicating a message that had already been
sent(i.e. The New
Orleans Event). I shot it thru before I
read my mail.
By the way, I
will be sending, very soon, Ron Whitehead's recent interview
with William
Burroughs that appeared it the July 10 edition of the Louisville
Eccentric
Observer.
Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:26:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs mention in Edw. T. Hall autobio
Currently reading
cultural anthropologist Edward T. Hall's autobiography,
_An Anthropology
of Everyday Life_. In Chapter 2, where
he describes
boarding at the
Los Alamos, New Mexico school (which should have jogged my
memory!) I came
upon this sentence:
>Many of the
boys had rifles, including my friend William Burroughs, whom
>we called
Bugs because of his interest in biology.
This led me to
wonder if Hall and Burroughs might have known each other
before Los
Alamos. Hall's family lived in Webster Groves, which is adjacent
to St. Louis,
Burroughs' hometown.
Anybody know?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:28:12 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: lowell '96
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:03:05 EST from
<caldwer1@TIPO.TRANSCRIPTS.COM>
I've been at the
last two festivals and had a great time.
If you're
going, makeyour
hotel reservations NOW! It's fall
foliage season and
rooms are hard to
find in October. The Parks dept.
sponsors several
fine literary
walking tours and there has been a great canal ride on the
Merrimack. You have to make reservations for most
tours. It's a fun
weekend!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:54:52 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re: Hotel Rooms for Lowell '96
Bill is right-
book your hotel now. The Sheraton is right downtown, I have
reserved rooms at
a special rate for the festival. Call the HOTEL at
508-451-1200 and
tell reservations you are with Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!. Call
the hotel, do not call the Sheraton worldwide number.
There is also a
Susse Chalet a mile or so away, as are Residence Inn,
HOJO, Courtyard.
Mark Hemenway
LOwell Celebrates
Kerouac!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 09:27:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: RON WHITEHEAD INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM S.
BURROUGHS
This is the Ron
Whitehead interview with William S. Burroughs as it appeared
in the Louisville
Eccentric Observer, July 10, 1996.
Paul
********************************************************************************
NAKED
INTERVIEW: CONVERSATIONS WITH WILLIAM S.
BURROUGHS
William S.
Burroughs is one of the greatest writers of our times. His talent
has brought him
fame, and along with it, many burdens.
Daily, Burroughs is
swamped with fan
mail, unexpected visitors and interview requests. And if
that wasn't
enough to keep him occupied, strange rumors have begun circulating
about him. Burroughs, who rarely grants interviews,
speaks with Ron Whitehead
in an attempt to
counter the public's false speculation about him.
"His Swiftian vision of a
processed, pre-pakeaged
life, of a kind of elctro-chemical
totalitarianism, often
evokes the black laughter of
hilarious horror."
---Playboy
"Burroughs is the greatest
satirical writer since
Jonathan Swift."
---Jack Kerouac
"The only American writer
possessed by genius."
---Norman Mailer
"Burroughs shakes the
reader as a dog shakes
a rat."
---Anthony Burgess
"An integrity beyond
corruption...Burroughs
convinces us he has seen things
beyond description."
---John
Updike
"One of the most dazzling
magicians of
our time."
---John
Rechy
"The Ticket is Exploding"
"With suffering comes
humility and with it
in the end, wisdom."
---J.
Swift
At 82, William Seward Burroughs II,
El Hombre Invisible, Literary
Outlaw,
Commandeur de l'Ordre de Arts et des Lettres, is rapidly becoming
the most
respected, highly regarded writer in America, in the world.
"All at once I snapped my
fingers a couple of times
and laughed. Hellfire and damnation! I suddenly
imagined I had discovered a new
word! I sat up in
bed, and said: It is not in the language, I have
discovered it - Kuboaa. It has letters just like
a real word, by sweet Jesus, man, you
have discovered
a word!...Kuboaa...of tremendous
linguistic
significance. The word stood out clearly in front
of me in the dark."
Burroughs? No.
Knut Hamsun. In 1890, with the
publication of
"Hunger,"
the first purely psychological novel(yes I'm ready to argue), Hamsun
turned the
literary world upside-down and spun it around.
In 1959, 69 years
after Hamsun's
breakthrough, with the release of "Naked Lunch," William S.
Burroughs,
explorer in the most real mythological sense, whose search for The
Word has, does
and will take him anywhere outside and inside himself, did what
only a small
handful of "literari" have achieved in the history of writing:
He forever
redirected the course of literature in a way that permanently
altered language,
culture and seeing.
So, what the hell is Old Bull Lee up
to? Retired and enjoying good
health, does he
rest on his arse? No. He is busy working his arts off,
dreaming, seeing,
reading and representing new and old visions on paper,
canvas,
vinyl,tape, disk, CD-Rom, your brain and mine.
Dream long and dream hard enough
You will come to know
Dreaming can make it so
---William S. Burroughs
But rumors abound: He's kept tied to his bed and forced to use a
chamber pot; he
still takes heroin; he moved to central America (USA) because
land was cheap
and he knows it's about to become beachfront property since
East and West
coasts willbe falling into oceans any day now; he's dead; he
shoots obsessed,
fatal-attraction European midnight visitors with a shotgun.
Come on people. Wake up.
Sober down. William Burroughs is
harassed day and
night by folks from around the world showing up, without
invitation,
notice or warning, banging on doors and windows, camping in his
yard, trying to
get a glimpse of the legend.
The man is 82. Let's show respect for his privacy as we do
for his
work, as we would
expect and demand given the good fortune of being in his
position. He receives requests every day for
interviews, visits, readings,
recordings and
films. He does what he can, and always,
always in the
friendliest
manner. (And no, he hasn't shot or threatened anyone.)
William's latest books include
"My Education: A Book of Dreams" and
"Ghost of
Chance." Recent audiowork includes
"Naked Lunch,""X-Files CD,"
plus, he is now
in studio recording "Junky" and enjoying it so much he may go
right into
"Queer."
Two historic Burroughs events are
taking place this summer. The Los
Angeles County
Museum of Art (you can contact them at 212-857-6522) is
premiering the
exhibition "Ports of Entry: William
S. Burroughs and the Arts"
on July 16
through October 6. The event, curated by
Robert Sobieszek, is the
first-ever
retrospective surveying Burroughs' career, with 153 works,
beginning with
his 1960s and early 1970s photocollages, scrapbooks, and his
collaborations
with Brion Gysin on photomontage "cut-ups." The exhibition
will also include
Burroughs' later shotgun art and recent abstract painting,
and will explore
how his work has influenced today's cultural landscape,
resulting in the
absorption of his ideas and routines into newer art,
advertising and
current popular culture.
The second event is The New Orleans
Voices Without Restraint
INSOMNIACATHON at
the Contemporary Arts Center and The Howlin' Wolf Club, the
largest Beat
gathering of the year, where Mayor Mark Morial, James Grauerholz,
Doug Brinkley,
and others will speak with Burroughs over the phone. (For more
information
contact Ron Whitehead at 502-568-4956.)
Yes, the ticket is exploding. The walls of the literary world, the
world of culture,
are crumbling, and through the gaping holes strides the
drawling
wordslinger with an attitude, William Seward Burroughs II.
William S.
Burroughs: Hello?
Ron
Whitehead: William?
WSB: Yes.
Whitehead: Ron Whitehead.
WSB: Well, well, Ron Whitehead.
Whitehead: How the hell are you?
WSB: How what?
Whitehead: How are you?
WSB: Well, I'm fine, thank you.
Whitehead: As you recall, I produced your
"Published in Heaven: Remembering
Jack Kerouac
poster and chapbook," plus I sent you my "Calling the Toads"
poem
& I'm right
now producing the William S. Burroughs/Sonic Youth 7" vinyl
recording for our
audio series.
WSB: Oh, of course, yes, yes.
Whitehead: I just received letters from Rene in
Amsterdam. He says that after
my reading at the
Meer den Woorden Festival in Goes, Holland he started having
dreams in which
you and I taught him how to save the world.
I'm forwarding
the letters to
you.
WSB: How old is he? I think I remember him. What does he look like?
Whitehead: Early 20s.
Blond. Handsome. Friendly.
Intelligent. Knows the
history of the
Beats inside out. He writes from a
mental hospital in
Amsterdam.
WSB: Hmm. Not sure. Perhaps.
Whitehead: Reason I'm calling is that Doug Brinkley has
asked me to produce an
event in New
Orleans in August. It will be the
largest Beat gathering of the
year. RANT for the literary renaissance and The
Majic Bus will present the
event, called
Voices Without Restraint: 48-Hour
Non-Stop Music & Poetry
INSOMNIACATHON. As part of the event, we'll hold a City of
New Orleans
Presentation
Ceremony, dedicating to you the historic marker which will be
erected at your
Algiers home, which was made famous by Jack Kerouac in "On the
Road." And we'd like to have a live phone
conversation with you during the
presentation.
WSB: Why certainly. Yes, yes.
I'm honored.
Whitehead: Good.
Just a few questions.
WSB: Fine.
Shoot.
Whitehead: Why did you decide to settle in Algiers,
which at that time was
home to various
military bases, rather than in one of the traditional bohemian
neighborhoods?
WSB: Yes.
Because it was a hell of a lot cheaper.
Real estate there was the
cheapest. I got that house for $7,000 something.
Whitehead: Any memories of different New Orleans
neighborhoods you visited,
music, riding the
ferry?
WSB: The Quarter, strange plays...Didn't get
around too much.
Whitehead: The New Orleans Police have come under attack
recently -- imagine
that -- for
corruption. A cop hired executioners to
kill a woman who signed a
brutality
complaint against him. Louisiana police
cars have "So no one will
have to fear"
inscribed on their sides. Do you have
any observations about
the New Orleans
police, about the illegal search of your home there, or the
firearms they
confiscated?
WSB: No.
They never laid a finger on me, as far as any brutality goes. They
did lead me to
believe that one of them was a federal agent when he wasn't.
He was a city
cop. So there was an illegal
search. But I didn't know it at
the time. The next day, I was arrested. There was someone with me I hardly
knew. He was just introduced to me. He had one joint on him. He'd thrown
out larger
amounts but still had one, and they found it right away. Then the
next day they
went in and took my car and I never got it back, though I wasn't
convicted of
anything. See, they can confiscate your
property even though
you're not
convicted of anything. And that's really
scary sinister.
Whitehead: Both our political parties are looking like a
bird with two right
wings.
WSB: Exactly.
Whitehead: The police are gaining more powers daily as
our personal freedoms
are disappearing.
WSB: See, that's what I say. The whole drug war is nothing but a pretext
to
increase police
power and personnel, and that, of course, is dead wrong. So
many created
imagined drug offenses.
Whitehead: New Orleans has North America's largest magic
community. In
recent years
you've spoken bluntly about your interest in magic. In New
Orleans did you
encounter magic in any form?
WSB: No, I didn't.
Whitehead: There may be irony in having a literary
marker commemorate your
Algiers home, a
place where you lived briefly, perhaps unhappily. Did you
produce any
writing there?
WSB: Oh yes, quite a bit. And I wouldn't say I was particularly unhappy
there.
Whitehead: So it wasn't all that bad?
WSB: No, it wasn't. Not at all.
Whitehead: Jack Kerouac devoted a large section of
"On the Road," on the New
Orleans visit.
WSB: Oh well, Kerouac was writing fiction. What he did when he wrote about
me...he made me
out with Russian Countesses and Swiss accounts and other
things I didn't
have or didn't happen and so on.
Yet...some truth, some
fiction.
Whitehead: You have dramatically influenced music,
literature, film, art,
advertising and
culture in general. Are you intrigued by
that influence? How
did you first
become conscious of other people's perception of you as icon?
WSB: Well, slowly of course. Over time.
Reading the paper, magazines,
journals, that
sort of thing.
Whitehead: The request for interviews becomes absurd
after a while. This is
the first and
last one I intend to do. I feel
uncomfortable in the position
of interviewer.
WSB: Yes, it becomes absurd because interviewers
generally ask the same
questions, say
the same things.
Whitehead: Recently you've been barraged with interview
requests, especially
in relation to
the deaths of Timothy Leary and Jan Kerouac.
WSB: Yes, of course I knew Leary, but barely knew,
didn't really know Jan.
James knew her,
was friends with her, but I didn't.
Whitehead: Hunter S. Thompson, who I like so much, is,
like me, from
Louisville and
you're from just up the road in St. Louis.
I recently visited
Hunter at his
home in Colorado. Hunter said he thought
he was a pretty good
shot until he
went shooting with you.
WSB: I'll put it like this: Some days you're good and some you aren't.
Whitehead: You must have been good that day. Hunter was real impressed.
WSB: Well, he gave me a great pistol.
Whitehead: Like Hunter, some people would say that
you're a Southern
gentleman with a
world literary reputation, but both you and Hunter have
escaped the
Southern-writer label. Any comments?
WSB: I escaped the label because I didn't and
don't write about the South.
Whitehead: Do you have a personal favorite of your own
readings? I know
you've been in
the studio recording "Junky."
WSB: No, I don't have any special favorite.
Whitehead: Other than Brion Gysin, is there anyone you
miss the most?
WSB: When you get to be my age there are more and
more people you have known
that you
miss. Brion, Antony Balch, Ian
Summerville are ones I think of right
away I was quite
close to.
Whitehead: Diane di Prima is underrated,
underappreciated in the world. Her
autobiography
will be released by Viking Penguin in April '97. I hope she'll
finally receive
credit that's long overdue.
WSB: Yes, I hope so too.
Whitehead: You've had much to say about Samuel
Beckett. Beckett's mentor,
James Joyce, was
an anarchist who devoted his life work to undermining and
deconstructing
the dominant paradigm of patriarchy in government, religion,
family and
literature. I'm doing research asking
The Beats what influence
James Joyce had,
if any, on their writing. How do you
feel about Joyce?
WSB: Well he's great, a very great writer. Any modern writer is bound to be
influenced by
Joyce. Of course, by Beckett as well.
Whitehead: I had a long conversation with Allen Ginsberg
about Bob Dylan.
Allen talked
about his personal feelings towards Dylan and also about Dylan's
work. Allen said he felt like Dylan would be
remembered long after The Beats
and he added
reasons why. This is a strong statement,
especially coming from
Allen
Ginsberg. Do you have any comments on
this?
WSB: No, I don't.
Not in any cursory way. Of
course, I've listened to and
know his music
and met him a couple of times, but I don't have any strong
statements to
make.
Whitehead: John Giorno is giving me an out-take from The
Best of Bill CD box
set he's
producing. As part of White Fields
Press' Published in Heaven
series, I'm
producing a 7" vinyl recording with you on one side and Sonic
Youth on the
other. Lee Renaldo has stopped by to
visit you. How much are
you able to keep
up with music today?
WSB: Some much more than others. I've worked with and am very good friends
with Patti Smith
and Jim Carroll.
Whitehead: How do you feel about this historic marker?
WSB: Fine.
Fine. It's an honor like the
French Commandeur de l'Ordre des
Arts et des
Lettres. Commander of Arts and
Letters. Commander of Arts and
Letters.
Copyright Ron
Whitehead 1996
Photographs:
1. Cover photo of William S. Burroughs by Allen
Ginsberg, courtesy of Allen
Ginsberg, William
S. Burroughs and Ron Whitehead.
2. Photo of William S. Burroughs by Allen
Ginsberg, courtesy of Allen
Ginsberg, William
S. Burroughs and Ron Whitehead.
3. Photo of Hunter S. Thompson and writer Ron
Whitehead courtesy of Nancy
Whitehead.
4. Photo of William S. Burroughs by Allen
Ginsberg, courtesy of Allen
Ginsberg, William
S. Burroughs and Ron Whitehead.
Note: Photos will
vary with each publication this piece appears in (i.e. BEAT
SCENE will
feature in issue #25 or #26 with photos from L.A. County Museum of
Art Exhibition
plus Hunter and Ron photo).
CALLING THE TOADS
Hummm
Hummm
Hummm
Hummm
Hummm
Hummm
Hummm
Hummm
Calling the toads
Calling the toads
We shall come rejoicing
Calling the toads
one step out
the door off the step
goin down
swingin
in a peyote
amphetamine benzedrine
dream
I'm five years old I am the
messenger holdin
William
Burroughs' Bill Burroughs'
Old Bull Lee's
hand
holdin Bill's
hand on some lonely
godforsakinuppermiddleclassSt.Louisstreet
and we're
hummin we're hummin
we're hummin in
tones
we're hummin in
tones
callin the toads
oh yeah we're
callin the toads
Bill's eyes
twinklin glitterin
a devilish grin
crackin the corners
of his mouth and I'm lookin him
right smack in
the eyes
deep in the
eyes I'm readin
his heroined
heart yes I'm readin his old heart
but it ain't the story I expected
as we move this
way and that
raisin and
lowerin out heads our voices
callin the
toads
and here they come
marchin high
and low from
under the steps
from under
the shrooms of
the front yard
from round the
corner of the house
fallin from the
trees
rainin down
here come the toads
all sizes and
shapes all swingin
and swayin and
dancin that
magic Burroughs
Beat
yes here come
the toads singin
and swayin and
swingin their hips
now standin all
round us
hundreds
thousands of toads
eyes bulgin
tongues stickin out hard
dancin a
strange happy vulgar rhythmed
dance for
Burroughs and me
yes Burroughs
yes Burroughs
yes Burroughs I
see his heart
and I know his
secret
a secret no one
has discovered
til now but I'll
never tell
never reveal as
I witness
this sacred
scene this holy ceremony
this gathering
this universal song and dance
I witness
through the eyes the heart
of William S.
Burroughs
King of the
Toads
Calling the toads
Calling the toads
We shall come rejoicing
Calling the toads
hummmm
Copyright Ron
Whitehead 1996
Ron Whitehead can
be reached at RWhiteBone@worldnet.att.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 12:46:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: communication problem
Apologies to
listmembers but I'm having a problem contacting Waterrow books dir
ectly. Jeff, I doublechecked that address you asked
me about. I did find it a
nd it was the
same as the address you had. For some reason, I was unable to r
eply to you
directly. You might want to check your
out your end with aol.com.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 17:29:34 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: dawn m zarubnicky
<fedex@UNM.EDU>
Subject: Douglas Brinkley's Majic Bus
Has anyone out
there read Professor Douglas Brinkley's magnificent ode to
American history,
culture and literature, "The Majic Bus: An American
Odyssey." I am trying to institute an American Odyssey
course at my
school, The
University of New Mexico. Has anyone
attempted this?
Any ideas would
be greatly appreciated.
--In New
Mexico..searching for "it"....
"the moment
when you know all and everything is decided forever"
-Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:33:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: David Schmid
<SCHMID@UBVMS.BITNET>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Hippos!
In Ginsberg's
interview with Yves Le Pellec (Published in "Composed on the
Tongue"
under the title of "The New Consciousness"), Ginsberg refers to a
text co-authored
by Kerouac and Burroughs called "And the Hippos Were
Boiled in Their
Tanks." Does anyone know whether it has ever appeared in
print anywhere?
If it hasn't, does anyone know where the manuscript is?
Thanks.
David Schmid
SUNY Buffalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:50:07 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
Wasn't that
published in Burrough's INTERZONE which came out in 1989? Check
into that for the
hippos...
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:49:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Attn: Tony Ullyat - South Africa
Apologies to list
members - I have received permission from Bill G. (thanks,
Bill!) to post
this short message:
Attention: Tony
Ullyat - teacher of Beat course in South Africa. Your email
address doesn't
work from here. Can you please get in touch regarding Seven
Souls and Beat
Speak - I have the answers you are looking for and we can help
you.
You can fax us at
(508) 229-0885 or send me your mailing address and I'll air
mail information
to you.
Thank you -
Jeffrey H.
Weinberg
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:59:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
Hello folks.
Schmid wrote:
--------------------------------------In
Ginsberg's interview with Yves Le
Pellec (Published
in "Composed on theTongue" under the title of "The New
Consciousness"),
Ginsberg refers to a text co-authored by Kerouac and
Burroughs called
"And the Hippos Were
Boiled in Their
Tanks." Does anyone know whether it has ever appeared in
print anywhere?
If it hasn't, does anyone know where the manuscript is?
Thanks.
David Schmid
SUNY Buffalo
----------------------------------------
I posted a
similar letter about a year ago. I was
told that the manuscript
was probably
lost. Supposedly refers to a pre-_Junky_
era collaboration
between JK and
Burroughs. A detective-style novel, or
afirst American
existentialist
novel, a retelling of the Carr-Kammerer incident.
that's the way I
understood it.
I don't believe
it's appeared in print anywhere.
regards.
william miller
PS Great thanks
to Paul McDonald for sending on the Ron Whitehead interview
with
Burroughs. That's why I'm on this
mailing list, for exactly that sort
of item. Gracias.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:19:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: David Schmid
<SCHMID@UBVMS.BITNET>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Burroughs exhibit
In case this
info. has not appeared on the list, I thought people might like
to know that the
Burroughs exhibit referred to by Ron Whitehead will be at
the Spencer
Museum of Art in Lawrence, KA from Oct 26, 1996 to Jan 25, 1997,
after leaving Los
Angeles. LA and Lawrence will be the only two stops for this
exhibit!! The
exhibition catalog can be purchased for $24.95 at the
following number
- (213)857-6522. Ask for the book shop.
David Schmid
SUNY Buffalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:14:42 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:59:46 -0400
from <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
On Mon, 15 Jul
1996 14:59:46 -0400 William Miller said:
>Hello folks.
>
>Schmid wrote:
>
>--------------------------------------In
Ginsberg's interview with Yves Le
>Pellec
(Published in "Composed on theTongue" under the title of "The
New
>Consciousness"),
Ginsberg refers to a text co-authored by Kerouac and
>Burroughs
called "And the Hippos Were
>Boiled in
Their Tanks." Does anyone know whether it has ever appeared in
>print
anywhere? If it hasn't, does anyone know where the manuscript is?
>Thanks.
>
>David Schmid
>SUNY Buffalo
>----------------------------------------
>
>I posted a
similar letter about a year ago. I was
told that the manuscript
>was probably
lost. Supposedly refers to a pre-_Junky_
era collaboration
>between JK
and Burroughs. A detective-style novel,
or afirst American
>existentialist
novel, a retelling of the Carr-Kammerer incident.
>
>that's the
way I understood it.
>
>I don't
believe it's appeared in print anywhere.
>
>regards.
>
>william
miller
>
>PS Great
thanks to Paul McDonald for sending on the Ron Whitehead interview
>with
Burroughs. That's why I'm on this
mailing list, for exactly that sort
>of item. Gracias.
I have a dim
recollection that the mss is in the hands of the Sampas family. P
erhaps someone
knows more about us and will enlighten the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:28:03 -0700
Reply-To: prinzhal@ix.netcom.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<prinzhal@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
"And the
Hippos Were
> Boiled in
Their Tanks." Does anyone know whether it has ever appeared in
> print
anywhere?
Hard to believe
the work could have lived up to the promise of the title.
I understand they
appropriated same from a 100%-serious BBC report of a
fire in London.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:50:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
I saw the Hippos
manuscript in Lowell in 1992.
Jeffrey
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:39:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: David Schmid
<SCHMID@UBVMS.BITNET>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Hippos!
On the subject of
the inspiration of "And the Hippos Were Boiled In Their
Tanks,"
here's what Ginsberg gas to say in "The New Consciousness":
"He
[Burroughs] and Kerouac wrote a book together by the way...called "And
The Hippos Were
Boiled In Their Tanks" after a news story that they heard on
the radio. It was
about a fire in, I think, the Saint Louis Zoo, which the
announcer ended:
"The fire consumed two buildings and three acres of forestland
and the hippos were
boiled in their tanks." Burroughs thought that this
deadpan yankee
bizarre image was characteristic of the most blatantly
desensitized mad
humor in America. Like saying "And the Vietnamese were
burned alive in
their huts," so to speak. So that was the title and Jack and
he each wrote a
chapter. It was written in the style of Raymond Chandler,
hardboiled. That
was very early, before 'On the Road.' I think Sterling Lord
has the
manuscript."
This of course
raises more questions. Can someone tell me who Sterling Lord is,
and whether in
fact Ginsberg could be right in thinking that he has the
manuscript??
Thanks to
everyone who has responded so far.
David Schmid
SUNY Buffalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:50:56 -0700
Reply-To: prinzhal@ix.netcom.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Arthur Maynard
<prinzhal@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
This of course
raises more questions. Can someone tell me who Sterling
Lord is,
> and whether
in fact Ginsberg could be right in thinking that he has the
> manuscript??
> Thanks to
everyone who has responded so far.
>
> David Schmid
> SUNY Buffalo
He was Jack's
literary agent.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:24:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: About those hippos . . . .
Poor devils! This
topic was raised back in March, and no real conclusion was
reached on the
manuscript's existence.
Here's a selection
of clippings from the thread at the time (just so no-one
needs to
re-invent the wheel):
-----------------------------------------------------
On Sun, 17 Mar
1996, Matthew S Sackmann wrote:
> I'm writing
to ask if anyone knows about the novel that Jack and Bill
colaberated (im a
bad speller) on by that name
(subject)? Was it ever
published? Have any of you read it? If so, what is it about?
>
> Thanx,
> -matt
Neil Hennessy
replied:
No, it was never
published. It was originally going to be called "I Wish I
Were You"
and it dealt largely with the Carr\Kammerrer situation. Burroughs
changed the title
to "And the Hippos.." and Kerouac tried his damnedest to
get it published.
I would also really love to read it. It was post "Town and
the City"
and pre "Junky" so it would be a formative work for both authors.
Maybe one day
it'll get published, like "Queer".
Hoping,
Neil
Gary M. Gillman
added:
Just for the
record, I believe this was written in 1945, and thus before The
Town and the City
(written from the mid- to later 40`s). Also, I have
understood the
manuscript is lost, left inadvertently in a cab, although who
knows. Probably
one day it will pop up somewhere, as perhaps Neil`s full
"Cherry
Mary" letter will as well.
Liz Prato chimed
in:
Kerouac and
Burroughs co-wrote this account of the Lucien Carr slaying of
David Krammerer.
According to Watson ("The Birth of
the Beat Generation"),
K. tried to get
it published in 1952, but it never was.
And Timothy K.
Gallaher summed it all up:
>> for both
authors. Maybe one day it'll get published, like "Queer".
>> Hoping,
>> Neil
>
>No. I recall
that the manuscript was lost or destroyed. Anyone else confirm
this?
>
>Daniel
No I cannot
confirm this.
In fact a few
months ago in this list a poster stated that Ann Charters had
read the
manuscript and pronounced it to be nothing special.
That is all
hearsay of course, but I do believe it still exists.
I'd like to see
it published also, but I think someone earlier pointed out
the main factor
in this--Lucien Carr. Is he still alive?
Even after he
passes away, his children could object.
BTW Caleb Carr's
book Devil Soldier is quite interesting history.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:17:44 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: About those hippos . . . .
The question is,
what did they do with those boiled hippos?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:35:26 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:39:06 -0500
from <SCHMID@UBVMS>
On Mon, 15 Jul
1996 20:39:06 -0500 David Schmid said:
>On the
subject of the inspiration of "And the Hippos Were Boiled In Their
>Tanks,"
here's what Ginsberg gas to say in "The New Consciousness":
>"He
[Burroughs] and Kerouac wrote a book together by the way...called "And
>The Hippos
Were Boiled In Their Tanks" after a news story that they heard on
>the radio. It
was about a fire in, I think, the Saint Louis Zoo, which the
>announcer
ended: "The fire consumed two buildings and three acres of forestland
>and the
hippos were boiled in their tanks." Burroughs thought that this
>deadpan
yankee bizarre image was characteristic of the most blatantly
>desensitized
mad humor in America. Like saying "And the Vietnamese were
>burned alive
in their huts," so to speak. So that was the title and Jack and
>he each wrote
a chapter. It was written in the style of Raymond Chandler,
>hardboiled.
That was very early, before 'On the Road.' I think Sterling Lord
>has the
manuscript."
>
>This of
course raises more questions. Can someone tell me who Sterling Lord is,
>and whether
in fact Ginsberg could be right in thinking that he has the
>manuscript??
>Thanks to
everyone who has responded so far.
>
>David Schmid
>SUNY Buffalo
Sterling Lord,
now deceased, was a prominent NY literary agent. I believe his
agency is still
going strong.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:42:19 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: About those hippos . . . .
> The question
is, what did they do with those boiled hippos?
>
Eat them ?
Jens
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:13:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: About those hippos . . . .
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:24:46 -0400
from
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Thanks to WLJ for
the useful summary. I think there's some
evidence that it do
es exist and will
look into it further.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:20:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: UPDATED NEW ORLEANS BEAT EVENT INFO
Subject: Fwd: New
Orleans Performer List (7/15/96)
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: New Orleans Performer List (7/15/96)
Date: 96-07-15 20:06:58 EDT
From: RWhiteBone
To: Gatorino
RANT for the
renaissance, The Majic Bus, & TRIBE present VOICES WITHOUT
RESTRAINT 48-Hour
Non-Stop Music & Poetry INSOMNIACATHON at The New Orleans
Contemporary Arts
Center and The Howlin Wolf Club August 16-18
PERFORMERS:
Amiri Baraka
(poet, NJ), David Amram (musician, NY), Diane di Prima (poet,
CA), Ed Sanders
(poet, NY), The Iguanas, Storyville, E. Ethelbert Miller
(poet, D.C.),
Willie Smith (poet, CA), Robert Creeley (poet, NY), Ramblin'
Jack Elliott
(musician, CA), Robert Palmer (writer), Hubert Selby Jr., Nicole
Blackman (poet,
NYC), Hersch Silverman & Channel Nine (poet/musicians, NY),
Douglas Brinkley
(writer, LA),
Ron Whitehead
(poet, KY), Steve Dalachinsky (poet, NY), Frank Messina &
Spoken Motion
(poet/musicians, NY), Louis Bickett (poet/artist, KY), Yusef
Komunyakaa (poet,
IN), Richard Hell (poet/musician, NY), Mark Reese
(filmmaker:
Premiere Jackie Robinson documentary), Chris Iovenko (filmmaker:
Harry Crews
documentary), MouthAlmighty & Bob Holman's THE UNITED STATES OF
POETRY (New
Orleans Premiere), Chris Felver (photographer/filmmaker, Premiere
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti documentary), The Amazing Chan Klan (pop), The Black
Pig Liberation
Front (multi-media band of future here now, NY), Grand Passion
(new wave from
Northeast), Tyrone Cotton (blues), Susi Wood (KY mountain
folk), Gloria
Tropp & Elliot Levin (singer/musician, NY), Erik LaPrade (poet,
NY), Brian Foye
(poet/writer/Founder Kerouac Festival, MA), John Rechy
(writer, CA),
Andrei Codrescu (renaissance man, LA), Jay McInerney (writer),
William S. Burroughs
(live phone conversation), James Grauerholz (writer,
KA), Ron Seitz
(poet/writer, AZ), Jim McCrary (poet, KA), John Sinclair
(poet/musician,
LA), Dennis Formento (poet/writer, LA), Eleven Eleven (guilt
punk), Sander
Hicks (writer, NY), Soft Skull Press (NY), Little Molasses
Theatre Company
(production of RAPID CITY, NY), John S. Hall (poet/musician,
NY), The New
Orleans Klezmer Allstars, Matt Kohn (poet/photographer, NY),
Kalamu Ya Salaam
(poet/musician, LA), Denis Mahoney (poet/musician, RI),
Arthur Pfister
(poet, LA), Hozomeen Press (NYC, CT, RI), Pop Rocket Records
(CT), Ring Tarigh
(RI), White Fields Press (KY, TX), the literar renaissance
(KY), COMPOST
Magazine (NY, MA), Ralph Adamo (poet, LA), W. Loran Smith
(poet, KY), Umar
Aki Williams (poet, KY), Rich Martin (poet/musician, CT),
Kent Fielding
(poet, AK), Todd Colby (poet, NY), John Deer (low punk),
Anastasios
Kozaitis (poet, NY), Kevin Gallagher (poet, MA), Casey Cyr (poet,
NY), Phil Paradis
(poet, KY), Lori Turner (poet, KY), The New Orleans Poetry
Forum, MESECHABE
(LA), SPLEEN (KY), GREENPEACE, Bops Crack Boom Press! (KY),
Al McLaughlin
(OH), Jordan Green (poet, KY), Will Kotheimer (poet/filmmaker,
KY), Wendy-Charly
Lemmon (poet, LA), Paul McDonald (poet, KY), NEMO (poet,
NY), Annie
McClanahan (poet, KY), Mickey Hess (novelist/poet, KY), Michelle
Fowler (poet,
CO), Andrea Roney (poet, KY), Heather Kolf (poet, KY), IMPALA
SUPER (scruff
punk), John Hagan (writer, KY), Mike Forman (poet/musician,
KY), Bruce Beroff
(poet, KY), Jeff Eckman (poet, KY), Debi Coombs (poet, KY),
J.B. Wilson
(poet, KY), Devin Coombs (poet, KY), Rebekah Reeves (poet, KY),
Paul Levitch
(poet, KY), Luke Buckman (poet, KY), Deirdre Skaggs (poet, KY),
Gui Stuart (poet,
KY), Amanda Hammons (poet, KY), David Minton (poet, KY),
Rani (poet, KY),
Albert Kausch (poet, CT), Kelly Render (musician), KY),
Matthew Osborn
(poet, KY), Randall Keenan (poet), Jason Powell (poet, KY),
Cotton Seiler
(poet, KA), Michael Leonard (writer, NY), Allison Bona (poet,
KY), Aaron May
(poet, KY), Margie Nicoll (poet, MA), Marina Karides (poet,
LA), Danielle
Legros Georges (poet, NY), Seth Cohen (poet, KY), Chris Kubicek
(poet, FL),
Reverend Jayne Praxis (poet, KY), Kirstin Ogden (poet, AK), Gene
Simmons (poet,
AK), Kevin Johnson (poet, LA), Lee Grue (poet/musician, LA),
TRIBE Performers,
Dorothy Henriques (playwright, LA), Paul Chasse
(poet/moto-biker,
LA), Dr. Ahmos Zu-Bolton, LA), Christine Trimbo (poet, LA),
David Rowe (poet,
LA), Dr. Jerry McGuire (poet, LA), Anne Marie (poet, LA),
Goldielox &
Friends (hiphop, LA), John Bigunet (poet, LA), Cynthia Hogue
(poet, LA), Kerry
Poree (poet, LA), Barbara Lamont (poet/singer, LA), Nancy
Harris (poet,
LA), Dell Hall (poet, LA), Ben Gunn (poet/musician, LA), Andrea
Gereighty (poet,
LA), Bonnie Fastring (poet, LA), Nancy Cotton (poet, LA),
Chris Champagne
(poet, LA), Stan Bemis (poet, LA), Rene Broussard (video
artist, LA), Mada
Plummer (poet, LA), Keith Clayton (vibrphonist, LA), Karen
Celestan (poet,
LA), Robin Harris Thompson (singer/poet, LA), Kyla Thompsom
(singer/poet,
LA), Samara Jones (poet, LA), Michael Clatyon, Valentine Pierce
(poet, LA), Kerry
Poree (poet, LA), Quo Vadis Gex Breaux (poet, LA), Ted
Graham (musician,
LA), Gina Ferrera (poet, LA), Robert Menuet (poet, LA),
Clara Connell
(poet, LA), Regina Weinrich (writer/filmmaker: Paul Bowles
documentary),
Paige DeShong (poet, TX), Kathy Randels (LA), Athena Kildegaard
(MS), Barbara
Lamont (LA), Patrice Melnick (poet, LA), Mona Lisa Saloy (LA),
plus more to be added
plus last minute special guest appearances.
EVENT SPONSORS:
the literary
renaissance, White Fields Press, The Majic Bus, The Eisenhower
Center for
American Studies at The University of New Orleans, TRIBE Magazine,
The New Orleans
Contemporary Arts Center, The Howlin Wolf Club, EXQUISITE
CORPSE Magazine,
The City of New Orleans, The New Orleans Poetry Forum, The
Louisiana
Endowment for The Humanities.
For Performance
& Event info contact Ron Whitehead (Event Producer) at
502/568/4956
(e-mail RWhiteBone@worldnet.att.net) or Lee Levert (Eisenhower
Center) at
504/286/7110.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:07:33 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: About those hippos . . . .
They made
"One Ton" soup.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:12:11 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hippos!
When is Lord's
agency going to release some of this Kerouac material, or is it
also tied up in
the Keroauc estate?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 16:03:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Harms
<tmharms@LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: beat: fiction or non-fiction
It just hit me a
few days ago that what Jack Kerouac wrote really
happened. I'm not trying to display my ignorance, it
was just a weird
moment of
clarity...
I always
approached his work as fiction - sure, maybe there was some germ
of real life that
he snowballed into an entire novel but I always felt as
I was reading him
that it was an imaginary travelogue.
But then I'm
thinking about the part in Big Sur where he and 'Cody' (Neal
Cassady) leave
the play that Cody's wife had designed the set for and
then I recall
Carolyn Cassady telling her end of the story in 'Off the
Road'. This, led to some near ephinany to me as I
linked these two
events in history
by cross-referencing and suddenly there was an air
of credibility to
Jack's account.
What followed
then was me thinking that Kerouac's so-called 'fiction' (I
mean, that's
where you find it in the bookstore.) is really non-fiction
as it's grounded
in history and he just gave his friends some 'silly
hats'. (Though I'm sure there were more than a few
poetic extrapolations
in his
writing.) I know many people see
Kerouac's writing as
autobiographical
or journal writings but it was just a weird jump for me.
But what if the
'funny hats' went the other way. What if
Ann Charters
writes another
Kerouac biography but instead of saying 'Jack did
this...',she
says, 'Sal did this...' or she says 'Neal and Jack drove to
Los Gatos...' she
says 'Cody and Dulouz drove to Los Gatos.'
What if
Levi changes the
names on his website to these crazed fictional characters
who really dug
jazz and the Buddha, drank too much, and drove all over the
country?
I'm sure any
postmodernists out there are probably going mad at this
point - trust me,
I'm not trying to decontrust Jack's writings.
But it
just seems to
allow for a gray area to open up between fiction and
non-fiction. I know that of late there's been this 'new'
field of
writing called
'historical fiction' or something late that, but it
doesn't seem to
all that new all of a sudden. (And I'm
sure people were
doing it for
hundreds of years before Jack et al.)
(I'm sure there's
a Master's thesis in here, somewhere...)
Now, obviously,
this doesn't hold for every 'beat' author....but it can
make a person
wonder about what goes on in their own mind as they reflect
on an event or
tell a story, make a few name changes here or a different
location there
and suddenly you're not in Kansas anymore.
And if you want
to push it
further, you can entertain questions about the existence of
any reality
outside our own realm of the senses.
(Kinda like the mind
games Terry
Gilliam demonstrates in his movies...)
Ted Harms Library, Univ. of Waterloo
tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca 519.888.4567 x3761
"I got it
all when I gave it back." N. Young
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:37:24 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
A note of caution
- recall Burroughs' comment in Ron's
interview posted
here this week,
in which when asked about something Kerouac wrote about
incidents with
the Burroughs' character...WB said something like, well, Jack
was writing
fiction... WB did add that there was *some* veracity in the
fiction. And of course Ginsberg called Jack the
"Great Rememberer," in his
intro to
"Visions of Cody," I think.
May be only my own ignorance showing,
but I'm not at
all sure that all of what Jack wrote "really" happened.
Just my own 2
pennies...
Jon Schwartz
Wyoming Public
Radio
>It just hit
me a few days ago that what Jack Kerouac wrote really
>happened. I'm not trying to display my ignorance, it
was just a weird
>moment of
clarity...
>
>I always
approached his work as fiction - sure, maybe there was some germ
>of real life
that he snowballed into an entire novel but I always felt as
>I was reading
him that it was an imaginary travelogue.
>
>
>Ted
Harms Library, Univ.
of Waterloo
>tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca 519.888.4567 x3761
>"I got
it all when I gave it back." N.
Young
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:17:16 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
Jack stretched
the truth,
the whole truth,
and nothing but
the truth.
It's called
Fictionalized
Autobiography.
Novelizing.
Proetry.
You decide.
With best regards
and in good
faith,
I remain
John Hasbrouck,
from Chicago.
P.S. Ask me about
specific instances of Jack altering
"what really
happened" to suit his purposes. Better yet,
let's all post
our favorite passages from Jack's
"historical"
works where he's clearly "making it up."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:55:34 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: dawn m zarubnicky
<fedex@UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
In-Reply-To: <31EE719C.54FE@tezcat.com>
Jack's
"reality" may not have been Allen's "reality" or Burrough's
"reality"...Just
as Carolyn's view of events Jack writes about are
different from
Jack's "fiction"....Everyone can be in the same room and
experience the
same event, but if you asked each person to write down
their perception
of what happened, it would be different...
In my opinion,
the beauty of Kerouac's novels are that they chronical an
important time in
our country's history from an outsiders point of view..
If I were an
American History teacher, I would use Kerouac's novels (even
though they are
classified as fiction) as a representation of a segment of
America in the
late 1940's and 1950's and as the catalyst for events of
the 1960's.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:04:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Burroughs Exhibit
Halloo Everybody,
Just got back
from LA and the Burroughs exhibit today. Absolutely
comendable job.
Congratulations are due Robert Sobieszek (hope I spelled
that right)
curator of the exhibit, not only for Ports of Entry, but for
the thoroughly
researched, well-presented catalogue for the show. This
was a class act
all the way. A must see for anyone in the area (I flew
from Toronto to
see it).
Didn't get a
chance to go to the gala opening, but Ginsberg was there,
along with
Giorno, Van Sant, and Di Caprio. Oh, and Burroughs of course,
and James
Grauerholz, and McRary (as far as I know). Went to the press
preview and
opening day for the public. Good retrospective, covers all
the necessary
ground. Was a tad dissapointed there wasn't more of his
latest monochrome
paintings with broad, calligraphic impasto strokes. There
are all sorts of
little spirits hiding in those brush\mushroom\hand strokes.
The highlight of
the show was a sculpture called Untitled from 1992 (I
think I have the
date right) that was _Place of Dead Roads_ personified.
It was the one
piece I would have loved (most) to have in my living room.
More later.
(after weekend I'll come back with more to say)
I'm looking to
sell a review to a magazine\newspaper, so if anyone knows
anywhere that
might be interested, I can provide the goods.
Even if you don't
make it to the show, get the catalogue. Trust me.
Cheers,
Neil
word fallen...
photo fallen
(Yes folks, I was
that impressed)
PS There's also
an exhibit of Ginsberg's photography that runs to August
24th or
something. Will post further info on Monday.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:08:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
Yes, I have heard
Burroughs stress many times that Jack was a "writer of
fiction."
Though his books may be based on actual events, I understood what
Burroughs was
saying was that his writings were not to be taken as complete
actual truth.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:19:22 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:17:16 +0000
from
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
What a great idea
Hasbro has. Let's do that -- point out
passages Jack made up
. If they are short we can post them to the
list, if too long give citations.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:30:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Beat Generation Action Figures--
"What a
great idea Hasbro has. Let's do that..."
Or better still,
let Hasbro Toys know there is a potential boom market for
Beat Generation
Action Figures!
<HAW!>
Best--
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:31:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat Generation Action Figures--
At 09:30 AM
7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>"What a
great idea Hasbro has. Let's do that..."
>
>Or better
still, let Hasbro Toys know there is a potential boom market for
>Beat
Generation Action Figures!
><HAW!>
>Best--
>Mark
>
>Groovin man
here's one: Hunke the Junky you turn his head and he mainlines.
Neal Cassady real smoke comes out his
nose as he twists one up.
Jack Kerouac you lift his arm and he
downs a fifth of Johnnie Walker
scotch.
Burroughs would have a gun that would
shoot his wifes head off.
Lew Welch you wind it up and it walks
of into the woods and you
never see it again.( only a one shot deal)
Any other ideas to send to Hasbro post
em
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 14:33:33 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Geogia <savannah@SEKER.ES>
Subject: The Cat Inside
Comments: To:
Beat-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.cnuce.cnr.it
Hi!
I would like to
know information about all the Burrough's writings such as
"
Cities of red
night " ( or something like this ) , The Cat Inside, The
White
Subway ( more or
less , too ), The letters of Yage, etc. I am interested in
the publishers,
year of edition and publication ( or reeditions )and
prices.
Greetings,
Georgia;-)))
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 16:12:14 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Ofer H."
<ofer@NETVISION.NET.IL>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
> Hi!
> I would like
to know information about all the Burrough's writings such
as
> "
> Cities of
red night " ( or something like this ) , The Cat Inside, The
> White
> Subway (
more or less , too ), The letters of Yage, etc. I am interested
in
> the
publishers, year of edition and publication ( or reeditions )and
> prices.
> Greetings,
> Georgia;-)))
>
>
try
http://www.amazon.com for details. they carry almost every burroughs
out there.
good luck,
ofer.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 14:35:47 GMT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "s. mark johnson"
<smark@NYC.PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@vm.its.rpi.edu>
On Jul 21, 1996
16:12:14, '"Ofer H." <ofer@NETVISION.NET.IL>' wrote:
>Cities of red
night " ( or something like this ) , The Cat Inside, The
>> White
>> Subway (
more or less , too ), The letters of Yage, etc. I am interested
>in
>> the
publishers, year of edition and publication ( or reeditions )and
>> prices.
>> Greetings,
>> Georgia;-)))
Hi, Georgia. The Yage Letters was written by both
Burroughs and Ginsberg
and published by
City Lights in 1963. They are at 261
Columbus Ave, San
Francisco,
Ca.94133. "Cities of the Red
Night"Was published in 1981 by
Holt, Rinehart,
Winston at 383 madison Ave, New York, NY10017, and I'm
happy to have a
first edition. The Cat Inside I do not
have, but I'm sure
you could locate
it through Holt or City Lights. Mark J
--
s. mark johnson
"If it ain't
broke, don't fix it."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:33:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: SPOTS OF TIME
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
The Cat Inside
came out in 1992 from Viking, though parts of it were printed
earlier in 1986.
The White Subway will probably be the hardest to find, my copy
is a paperback
from Aloes seolA publishers in London, in a printing of 1,000
copies, 25 of
which were hardbound and signed and numbered by Burroughs.
Strangely enough,
I can't find a year in my copy so I'm stumped. His bio or
bibliography have
the date in it I'm sure.
Good luck,
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:44:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Cat Inside
White Subway was
published in 1973.
Jeffrey
Wate Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 08:47:08 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: beat: fiction or non-fiction
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> What a great
idea Hasbro has. Let's do that -- point
out passages Jack made
up
> . If they are short we can post them to the
list, if too long give citations.
Yo! Bill! et al.
One of my current
favorites is the passage in "On The Road" where Sal and Dean
are
at a carnival
somewhere and Sal describes Dean's fascination with a midget woman
who
he proceeds to
follow around wide-eyed. I believe it's the Nicosia bio which
clarifies this
incident, which actually involved Neal's lustful ogling of a
9-year-old girl.
I assume Nicosia found this info in Jack's "On the Road
Journal."
John Hasbrouck
(that's HASBRO with an UCK)
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:00:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVID W MYERS
<dwm3766@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: favorite excerpt
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@listserv.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: <31F3400C.228F@tezcat.com>
Somewhere in On
the Road, jack muses on the deity,
...and don't you
know that God is Pooh bear.
David M
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:10:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
>From
"Visions of Cody" (I think, maybe "On the Road") and I
quote from
memory, so please
forgive any mistakes:
"My father gone, my brother
gone, my mother far away...
nothing but me and my tragic
hands..."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:06:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
and another
classic bit from ON THE ROAD:
"So in
America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down river
pier watching the
long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that raw land
that rolls in one
unbelieable huge bulge over to the West Coast, and all that
road going, all
the people dreaming in the immensity of it...."
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:10:33 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Remember gang,
the idea here is cite your favorite Kerouac passage in
which JACK
CHANGES THE FACTS, STRETCHING THE TRUTH FOR WHATEVER REASON,
AND THUS
MYTHOLOGIZES HIS LIFE AND THE LIVES OF HIS BEAT FRIENDS.
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:51:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Whiskey Weird Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <31F38BD9.A60@tezcat.com>
On Mon, 22 Jul
1996, John W. Hasbrouck wrote:
> Remember
gang, the idea here is cite your favorite Kerouac passage in
> which JACK
CHANGES THE FACTS, STRETCHING THE TRUTH FOR WHATEVER REASON,
> AND THUS
MYTHOLOGIZES HIS LIFE AND THE LIVES OF HIS BEAT FRIENDS.
>
> John H.
> Chicago
>
okay,
but...bleedin' jayzus, we'd then have to quote every word he ever
wrote, the whole
balzacian jewel hive (sic)! It's all stretching, it's
all fiction, it's
all metaphor--even the life itself. See
Faulkner for
fiction being
more "true" (whatever that is) than what actually happens
(i.e. reportage).
bests,
Steve R. Smith
Graduate Teaching
Assistant
Department of
English
Portland State
University
Box 751 Portland,
OR 97207
503-725-3556
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:46:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: bUrroughs rEcording
Hello folks.
william Miller
here.
Someone posted
information to the list about a month ago, regarding a
recording on
which (forgive my memory) Burroughs voice is heard over Middle
Eastern
music. I think that the word
"Mission" was part of the (or the
entire??) title,
or the artist(s) name.
Please, someone,
refresh my memory.
WM
PS is Ted Pelton
still on the List?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:18:48 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: made-up passages
Hold on,
folks. I think we're losing focus on the
question of which are
the best passages
that Kerouac MADE UP -- hence not drawn from life.
This -- not our
favorite passages -- was the point under discussion.
Nothing wrong
with citing one's favorite passage but I think the
original question
makes for more interesting discussion.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:06:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF
SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: bUrroughs rEcording
Yes, that mid
eastern album with Burroughs on it was by a group called Material
with an album
name of SEVEN SOULS. I was told it was out of print but I think
Jeffrey at Water
Row said they had some left. Are you out there Jeffrey? Am I
right on that?
Anyway, it is a
very interesting album, a very worthwhile Burroughs piece. Grab
one if you can.
Dave Breithaupt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:01:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jon Schwartz <JBS@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Yes! This, along with the last couple of lines
about Dean Moriarity (and
the old Dean,
father of Dean whom they searched for and never found) are
wonderful,
American gut level vision...hearing and seeing Jack read this is
a wonderful
experience - many of you know this was taped on the Steve Allen
tv show...also
available on cd and vinyl from Rhino.
Best regards,
Jon Schwartz
Wyoming Public
Radio
jbs@uwyo.edu
>and another
classic bit from ON THE ROAD:
>
>"So in
America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down
river
>pier watching
the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that raw
land
>that rolls in
one unbelieable huge bulge over to the West Coast, and all
that
>road going,
all the people dreaming in the immensity of it...."
>
>bfn,
>JDL
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:07:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: bUrroughs rEcording
Yup, I'm here,
Dave -
We have one copy
left in stock of Seven Souls. Cassette format.
If anyone is
interested, let me know.
Jeffrey
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:11:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: VISIONS OF CODY QUOTE
Last night I
thumbed through my copy of VC and located the quote I tried to
remember
yesterday. This was also recited by
Kerouac on the Tonight Show in
1957 with Steve
Allen accompaning on piano. Also on the
Kerouac Spoken Word
CD put out by
Rhino.
Paul
********************************************************************************
"I'm writing
this book because we're all going to die--In the loneliness of my
life, my father
dead, my brother dead, my mother faraway, my sister and my
wife far away,
nothing here but my own tragic hands that once were guarded by
a world, a sweet
attention, that now are left to guide and disappear their own
way into the
common dark of all our death, sleeping in me raw bed, alone and
stupid: with just this one pride and
consolation: my heart broke in the
general despair
and opened up inwards to the Lord, I made supplication in this
dream."
Visions of Cody
p. 368
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:01:48 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
Jon Schwartz writes:
> Yes! This, along with the last couple of lines
about Dean Moriarity (and
> the old
Dean, father of Dean whom they searched for and never found) are
> wonderful,
American gut level vision...hearing and seeing Jack read this is
> a wonderful
experience - many of you know this was taped on the Steve Allen
> tv
show...also available on cd and vinyl from Rhino.
How true! Nothing
beats hearing/seeing Kerouac read that passage (or any of his
stuff for that
matter!) and listening to the way he pronounces words and just
the way he reads
his own work. It greatly enhances the prose - and just the fact
that the
"famous" appearance on the Steve Allen Show was a clever blend/fusion
of Visions of
Cody and On the Road... right on!
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:53:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: j thomas bailey
<jabailey@VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE EXCERPT
hello...
i've been on the
list for awhile, just haven't posted...
i agree w/ what
everyone is saying about Kerouac's recordings...i
recently
purchased Rhino's Kerouac Collection(3 cd set) and it is just
beautiful.
i highly
recommend it...i also have Rhino's Beat Generation boxed set
and that is great
as well...not only do you get great readings from the
writers(Ginsberg's
reading of America is just great, the first time i
heard it i cried
like a baby)but a great sampling of the music of the
50's and some
very interesting media coverage of the Beat Generation.
Rhino, in my
opinion, has done a great job putting these sets together
and i recommend
them to anyone w/ a great love of theses writers...
i heard that
Rhino is putting out a Burroughs set. is that true and if
so when?
see
you...
j
thomas bailey
Angel mine...be you fine.
-Jack
Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:11:58 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac in "Go"
Lapislove wrote
(regarding John Clellon Holmes' portrayal of Kerouac in "Go"):
>
> I don't know
if I'd agree that this is a "fictionalized" account of
> Kerouac - or
at least anymore fictionalized than the way Kerouac portrays
> himself and
the same characters and events in his novels (bringing up the
> discussion
over what was "real" and what was "fictional" in Kerouac's
> work). Many
of the people and events we see in "Go" we also see in Kerouac
> novels, the
main differences in the stories being a matter of perception.
> I think
that's one thing that's so interesting about "Go" - that we get to
> see how
someone else perceived Kerouac, and how that differs from his
>
self-perception.
>
> -Liz
If you will
consult the relevant biographies, memiors, and published letters of
the time period
surrounding the events covered in Holmes' "Go", you'll see that
"Go" is
considerably more fictionalized than most of Kerouac's
"autobiographical
fiction". Interestingly, Kerouac's first novel, "The Town and
the City",
which covers the same period as "Go", is the most "fictionalized"
of
the books he
wrote in this vein. At least the first half of the book is. Midway
through writing
"The Town in the City" Jack met Neal Cassady and his (Jack's)
writing style
changed drastically. The latter half of the book is therefore
very different
stylistically and sticks much closer to actual events.
It's fun to
compare the treatment of specific events which appear in both "Go"
and "The
Town and the City" such as the arrest of Ginsberg and Huncke in 1949,
and also the
murder of David Kammerer by Lucien Carr. If you REALLY want to do
some fascinating
comparative reading, (I'm now straying from the original
topic), read the
treatment of Kammerer's murder in "The Town and the City" and
then read about
it in Kerouac's "Visions of Duluoz". Reading about this event
in Kerouac's
first book, which he completed at age 25, and then reading his
account of the
same event written over 20 years later gives one an amazing
impression of the
dramatic contrast between his early writing and his (much)
later style.
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:35:59 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Fictionalized Truth
I just thought of
another passage where Kerouac changes the facts
surrounding
actual events to suit his literary purposes. And this one is
really early.
In "The Town
and the City", during the passage about the murder of David
Kammerer by
Lucien, Kerouac describes Kammerer as missing an arm. This
is entirely made
up. I recall reading somewhere (probably one of the
bios) that
Burroughs read this passage and thought that this
"mutilation"
of the Kammerer was absolutely inspired. Burroughs remarked
that he always
thought that Kammerer was "crippled in some way".
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:46:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Doug Wacker <dwacker@IN.NET>
Subject: Hitchhiking Update
I was watching
some news show last night (Primetime?), can't remember
the name, and it
did a story on hitchhiking across the U.S.
A reporter
was followed by a
station van as he hitched rides and videotaped
conversations he
had with multiple ride-givers. The
reporter made
multiple
references to Kerouac and visited Lowell.
The show at one
point played a
recording of Kerouac reciting some lines from 'On The
Road'. The show touched on some issues that were
discussed on the list
a few months ago
(how American was becoming too violent to hitchhike
[just America's
violence in general], etc.) The people
the reporter met
along the way
were great, too. He met an old school
friend he hadn't
seen for years
and who he did not even recognize from the get-go, a
family visiting a
loved one in jail, a near sixty-year old kite flyer
who recited a
little verse. It was a pleasant suprise
to see something
interesting on
network t.v. Anybody catch it?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:35:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lorraine Maffei
<MPSLori@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking Update
Unfortunately I
only saw the very end of the story last night on Primetime.
Thanks for filling in the story - it caught my
attention too.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:44:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Daniel Marleau
<dmarleau@NETROVER.COM>
Subject: Trip to Lowell
Hi everybody,
I am in Montreal
(Quebec) and I want to go to Lowell this summer.
Can you recommend
me an itinenary (excuse my english!) with or without a
guide (en
fran=E7ais ou en anglais) for see and feel the spirit of Jack
Kerouac.
(Remember his M=E9m=E8re, (grand-m=E8re, grandmother)
Excerpt from
Doctor Sax :
=ABIl commence a
tombez de la neige=BB...
It will be
interesting for me to meet few Franco-American.
Thank's for your
response.
Daniel Marleau
dmarleau@netrover.com
http://www.netrover.com/~dmarleau/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:08:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Beats' night out Lowell
To anyone
interested. There is a great folk festival in Lowell Mass. this
weekend July
26-28 with all kinds of great ethnic food and music, crafts and
even fireworks
all events are free. Check it out at
http://www.lowell.org/lowell/FolkFestival/ During the festival Saturday
July 27 5-7PM
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac is featuring "Beats' night out" with
music and spoken
word featuring Kindred, Meg Smith, Ed Dyer, Roger Brunelle,
and Amy
Kopaczewski. Lowell Celebrates Kerouac will also have a booth at the
corner of
Shattuck and Merrimack street during the festival. Hope to see you
all there. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:38:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christa D. Neu"
<NEUCD@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hitchhiking Update
Yes, I saw the
special when it originally aired, and I liked the idea for the
story, but it
can't have been a pure test of the minds of America in terms of
testing the
safety of hitchhiking; unfortunately the
reporter was not
hitchhiking
alone..and was trailed by a camera crew..the fact that it was a
news story may
have influenced people to slow down and pick him up.
I do like seeing
pieces of the driver's lives, the way I enjoyed reading
about the people
that William Least Heat Moon described the people he
encountered in
"Blue Highways". But I agree
with something Steinbeck said in
"Travels
with Charley"...something to the effect of going on his journey
alone because
once you add other people, it changes the entire dynamic of the
trip...imagine
how an entire news crew affected the interaction.
(But the kite
flyer was great.)
Christa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:03:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: "The Cat Inside"/Anyone need a
copy?
Since a good deal
of last week's typing here was devoted to Uncle Bill's
"The Cat
Inside" I want to let other newsgroup members know that I'm no
doubt readying to
part with <ouch!> the good company of 2 copies of
Burroughs' cat.
One is the
"cadillac edition" of only 18 copies signed by both Burroughs &
Brion Gysin. The
second is the slightly more "regular" edition of 133
copies, again
signed by both Burroughs & Gysin. OK--I'll confess...Sad to
say I need to
part w/these before my soon-to-be-ex-spouse realizes that
these are
SOMEWHAT VALUEABLE BOOKS. You catch my drift.
Give a shout for
details, right?
Thanks--
<sigh>
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:42:35 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF
SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: "The Cat Inside"/Anyone
need a copy?
How much for that
cadillac edition of The Cat Inside?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:50:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk@KDSI.NET>
Subject: Cut-up Machine
If you've ever
wanted to see Burroughs' visualization of the cut-up
machine come to
life, you might want to visit a new side project of mine
called, of all
things, the cut-up machine. It is part
of a larger
Burroughs
collection....All located:
http://www.bigtable.com/wsb/
You'll find the
link to the cutup machine at the top of the page.
Your comments are
welcome and anticipated and future improvements
depend on
them.....thanks!
~~~~Luke
PS: Copy a block
of your favorite (or most detested) prose to your
clipboard (if
applicable) to be prepared ahead of time :).
---
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:44:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: <For GEORGIA--please confirm eamail
address?>
Hey, Georgia--
Thanks for your
interest in the Cat--
My mail to you
with the particulars keeps bouncing back to me though.
Would you email
me at Hdnfalls@pond.com to confirm your address?
I'll get the
information right to you--
Thanks--
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:56:25 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Route 20, Readings, contacts?
I'm a poet and
small press publisher from Corning, New York planning a
cross-country
driving trip beginning around September 20th. I'll be leaving
Boston and
heading west, driving US Route 20, all the way across the
country to
Newport, Oregon. I'm calling the adventure "Twenty Days On Route
20" and am
planning to write a book on the experience. The book will be
modeled after
Basho's travel sketches, a combination of prose and haiku
called haibun.
I'm hoping to
arrange some readings for myself along the way and also want
to touch base
with book stores, cafes, coffeehouses, lit centers etc. Does
anyone have any
contacts for readings, places to stay (low budget trip),
etc. along 20
that I might follow up on? You could send direct so as to not
take up space on
list.
This also happens
to be the 25th anniversary of my buying a backpack and
sticking the
thumb out on the road from Buffalo for the first time. The
30,000 miles I
hitchiked over a few years forever changed my life.
Interested to see
what comes of this more tamed adventure.
Thanks,
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:40:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Beat discussion in David Donnell
interview
Howdy all,
I know I promised
more info and a review of the Burroughs show, but as
things turned out
the magazine I'm selling the review to doesn't have their
deadline for a
few weeks, so my review is still actually just a bunch of
scattered notes.
What took precedence was an interview I did with David
Donnell, a
Toronto area poet, for Hook & Ladder, an independent journal
of Canadian
poetry. The interview was about his 8th book of poetry
_Dancing in the
Dark_, but we ended up discussing several Beat-related
topics, and I
figured it might spark some disussion. If it doesn't, then
I apologize, but
I thought some of it would be of interest so I'll give
you the relevant
exerpts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Donnell:
When you're reading a book you have to say, "How old is this
person supposed
to be?" because you're reading topography, you're reading
language, you're
reading print. You can't see the person. How old is
Hamlet? I think
Hamlet is about 18, or 19 years old, possibly 20.
Age is something
you can choose to some degree. You can choose to
suddenly age ten
years in two weeks by rearranging your life in a rather
conservative way,
or you can choose to be forever young, like the Bob
Dylan song. Which
is obviously, there's an allusion there, but it's one
of the gentler
allusions, one of the less dangerous allusions compared to
certain allusions
to dissolution or negativity, or anything like that.
Neil Hennessy: In
that case it's just a prayer of a father for his son.
DD: Sure, sure.
So the book is centered minimally speaking on
under-thirties,
and the youth culture of the early 90's. But I mean if I
were to literally
write that on the blackboard, say if I were sdoing a
classroom thing,
with some work from the book, it would seem a little
pedantic. So I
woud say, "If this sounds a little pedantic don't expect
anything quite
that tight, from any specific piece." And I move around
all over the
place in that book. There are a number of, if you put that
tight a
definition on the blackboard then you'd have to say there are a
number of pieces
that don't quite fit. An awful lot of it does. The Jack
Kerouac piece is
in there partly because Kerouac has had a continuing
fascination for
people, and he's a terrific writer. He was a youth
writer, he was in
a sense a youth writer in his thirties. He was always a
youth writer, in
a sense.
NH: That was
actually one of his problems because he couldn't grow out of it.
DD: Couldn't grow
out of it, and also he's just suddenly came into
contact with so
much of youth culture at that time that he didn't really
accept.
NH: Yeah, and he
was a Viet Nam supporter.
DD: We shouldn't
mention that during the uhh (interview?) (laughs)...
NH: One of the
things Burroughs says quite often apparently according to
David (David
Ohle, Burroughs' friend), if you ask Burroughs about Kerouac
he'll say,
"That Jack, he was a Mama's boy, and a bloody right-winger too."
DD: Well, you
know Bull Lee isn't that far off. He was a Mama's boy in a
sense, and one of
the most beautiful things he ever wrote was that poem;
it's his only
good poem. I'm not dissing him, but he only wrote, I think
this is his only
good poem. I think the poem is called "My Mother Smiling
Like
Buddha". A poem about his Mother's
face, and her wonderful eternal
smile. And of
course, you're thinking, this must be a sentimental poem.
It's just one
note off, away from sentimental. Almost, but it's actually
an interesting
poem, and a good poem, and when you hear him read it, it's
really a nice
reading. You would turn around if you were in a bar and he
read this poem,
you would turn around to hear the whole thing. Dead on
poem, the only
good poem he ever wrote as far as I'm concerned.
NH: I haven't
actually read any of his poetry, I've shied away from it.
DD: His novels
are much better.
NH: Well I've
read several of his novels. My favourite was actually
Satori in Paris,
which was the last 'autobiographical' type book he wrote.
And after that I
guess he felt trapped by the sort of didactic stuff of
his youth I
guess, with his spontaneous prose and that, and he felt
trapped and he
tried to write fiction. It was a story about a little
black kid that
rides a bus to New York. He never actually finished it,
it's called Pic.
DD: That was in
his typewriter when he died?
NH: He was still
writing it, yeah.
DD: He was still
writing it.
NH: So New
Directions published them together, Satori in Paris and Pic.
That was my
favourite of his novels. He goes to Paris and he's reflecting
about his whole
life and trying to discover his roots, and eventually he
says, "I'm
not really a Buddhist, I'm just a crazy French Catholic Canuck."
DD: Isn't it
amazing how everybody wants identity? And how so many people
reach a point
where they've got to have it in a shoe-box. Sort of like
these are size 9
triple E Oxford mens, and it has to be written in
stencil. I don't
think you, you know, identity is important, of course
you know identity
is one of the most, one of the big psychological
dynamics that you
study if you're studying individual psychology, or
group psychology.
NH: Philosophy as
well.
DD: Yeah, sure,
but I don't think you can get it down quite that tight.
Maybe he was just
joking. Because Jack was obviously a sort of Buddhist.
Dharma Bums is
good.
NH: That's probably,
of the road novels, it's probably the next one that
I like. It's
actually a happy one. Because I mean Big Sur or some of the
other ones are
pretty depressing.
DD: Desolation
Angels.
NH: When he gets
heavy into the alcoholism. They're just morbid; whereas
Dharma Bums is
all happy, with him meditating on the mountain and everything.
DD: It's idyllic.
NH: It was a nice
read. You walked away feeling good about yourself, and
Kerouac, and the
world.
DD: Yeah, and
that's wonderful if you can make a reader feel that way,
that's terrific.
.
. (Later on)
.
(About
performance poets)
DD: Well I think
you can afford to be intellectually self-indulgent in
terms of thematic
coherence for example. As far as thematic coherence
goes you can
afford to be a little self-indulgent when you're
performing, if
you're moving the voice, if the energy is moving, if you're
making points as
you go along. When you're on paper the work has to I think
assume focus, and
clarity, a little faster and with more continuity.
Something
extraordinary like Ulysses or Finnegan's Wake or Cities of the
Red Night by
William Burroughs - I reviewed that for the Globe. I think
I reviewed all
three novels of that trilogy for the Globe. Cities of the
Red Night, The Place
of Dead Roads, and The Western Lands I guess was
the third one.
But anyway, books like Cities of the Red Night were not
done as
performance art. I like a lot of performance stuff, it's fun.
Very often I feel
a sort of general, a bit of an intellectual void at
the centre.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incidentally,
David went on to say that Burroughs has an enormous amount
of respect for
Kerouac as a writer (which bears out if you read his
'Remembering Jack
Kerouac' piece in _The Adding Machine_), but that
towards the end
of Kerouac's life Burroughs no longer respected him as a
person.
Anyhow, I
disagree with Donnell to some extent about _Cities_ not being
for performance.
Burroughs did an extensive reading tour for _Cities_
along with Laurie
Anderson and John Giorno, and at least one CD was
produced out of
it called "So You're the One I Want to Share My Money
With". I
think the audience response on this CD attests to the fact that
there are several
pieces in _Cities_ that go over very well in
performance. One
of the things that impressed me about Burroughs is that
he shoots from
the hip - there are no screens set up between him and his
writing, he does
not assume any writerly stance. He reports it as he sees
it. Sometimes
when he is speaking in conversation, you could simply
record it and it
could appear in his writing (especially _My Education_).
He is very
genuine, and honest in his life and work, an artist with
integrity (and
I'm not talking about Nike add bull-shit, if they're
willing to pay
him ridiculous amounts of money to peddle shoes for 30
seconds, why not
buy a comfortable retirement?).
"Woodstock
rises from Kerouac's pages."
William S. Burroughs
Again, I
apologize if people didn't think this was worth posting.
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:02:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rodgers
<Rodgers@TRACOR-A4.CCMGATE.TRACOR.COM>
Subject: Burroughs quote
"Woodstock rises from Kerouac's
pages."
William S. Burroughs
Now Bull Lee you know better than
that. Woodstock rose from the
festival promoter's pressure treated dream
to cash in ,not Kerouac's
pages.
The fact that the promoters lost
money probably pleased Jacky
more than anything. Oh I'm sorry, Woodstock spirit ya say? Bill,
honest reports speak of a Woodstock Nation
less glamorous and spirited
than depicted on the silver screen. Dennis Cook's report of the
festival in The Beat Generation is one of
the most objective accounts
I have read.
A lot of things rose from Jack's pages to
enlighten us all. Woodstock
was not one of them.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:06:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat discussion in David Donnell
interview
Thanks yet AGAIN
to Neil Hennessy
(sp.?)
for the Burroughs
discussions in this piece.
PS As for that
"Jack, he was a....bloody right-winger too" quote, that was
LONG
overdue. Thanks for the posts.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:06:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs quote
"Woodstock
rises from Kerouac's pages"
Let's just say
that I took this quote to mean something else entirely.
I DID NOT take it
to mean that Woodstock happened as a direct result of
Kerouac's
writing.
I DID take as an
implication that Kerouac's writing was, in a sense, like
Woodstock. It smells the same, sounds the same, FEELS
the same, to
Burroughs. And to myself, as well.
"Dharma Bums
is all happy, with him meditating on the mountain and
everything.
" (from Neil H.'s last post...)
I get the same
feeling from Woodstock (what I know of it) as I do from
reading Kerouac's
"happy" pieces, like _Dharma Bums_.
And NO, I wasn't
at Woodstock.
Grateful for
THAT,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:57:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Beat discussion in David Donnell
interview
On Thu, 1 Aug
1996 09:06:58 -0400 William Miller <KenWNC@aol.com> wrote:
> Thanks yet
AGAIN
>
> to Neil
Hennessy (sp.?)
>
> for the
Burroughs discussions in this piece.
>
> PS As for
that "Jack, he was a....bloody right-winger too" quote, that was
> LONG
overdue. Thanks for the posts.
Thanks for your
kind words, and you're most welcome.
I never actually
heard Burroughs say the above quotation, but it is
something that he
has written before in letters to Ginsberg.
Unfortunately I
cannot cite the exact date of the letter because I left
my copy of
Burroughs' collected letters (the pre Naked Lunch ones) in a
friend's car and
never saw them again (wasn't that how the Hippoes
manuscript was
supposed to have been lost? ah what bitter sweet irony,
well not really
;-)
If I remember
correctly, Burroughs accuses Kerouac of hiding in his
mother's skirts.
Can someone back me up on this one? I haven't had the
heart to buy
another copy of the letters, as that would mean I would have
to admit they are
lost forever.
The biblio on the
book is:
The Letters of
William S. Burroughs
Edited by Oliver
Harris.
Penguin, New
York, 1993
Does anyone know
if this is out of print? I haven't seen it around in a
while...
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:58:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Reading the Beats
I finally
finished my first reading of "Visions of Cody" the other day.
It was
enlightening, and represents to me the manner in which Kerouac
began to write
after he realized "On the Road" wasn't going to be
published right
away, and he decided to write for himself rather than
publishers.
With this reading
under my belt I can get back to my project of reading
the Beat canon
chronologically.
Kerouac finished
VOC in the attic of Neal and Carolyn Cassady's home in
San Francisco on
his 30th birthday (3/30) in 1952. Two weeks later Jack,
Neal, Carolyn and
the kids began a trip during which Jack was dropped
off at the
Maxican border in Arizona and the Cassadys proceeded to
Nashville to
visit Carolyn's parents.
When finishing
VOC, I was excited to get back into the published
correspondence
since there's about a dozen letters between Allen, Bill,
Neal, Jack and
John Clellon Holmes crisscrossing the continent during
May, 1952. In a
letter from Jack to Allen written from Bill's Mexican
pad dated
5/10/52, Jack mentions his "Odyssey" traveling from the border
to Bill's place.
This letter is in "The Selected Letters of Jack
Kerouac,
1940-1959", and editor Ann Charters has a footnote for this
passage
mentioning that Kerouac wrote a piece about this adventure
called
"Mexican Fellaheen" which appears in "Lonesome Traveler".
Upon reading this
footnote, I leaped from my desk and ran to my
bookshelf. Sure
enough, there it was on page 21 of LT. Sixteen pages
covering Jack's
movement from the border to Bill's. (Dating Jack's trip
is problematic.
He begins his letter of the tenth telling Allen that "it
took 10
days" for he and Bill to find a nice new typewriter. Later in
the letter, Jack
discussed some friction between he and Neal, mentioning
a specific
incident that occurred "last week".
I tentatively conclude
that Jack's trip
took place during the last week of April, 1952.) I
suspect Jack
wrote "Mexican Fellaheen" some time after the fact,
possibly using
his letter to Ginsberg (in which he describes that leg of
his trip, though
more prosaically) to stir his memory.
I'm gettin' my
literary kicks.
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
PS: Comments
welcome.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:16:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reading the Beats
John (and
others):
You are correct
in assuming that Jack's trip took place the last week of
April 1952.
In 1991, I had
access to Kerouac's 1952 travel notebooks.
We published an
excerpt from the notebooks that Jack had titled "Visions Of
America".
Visions of America details Kerouac's journey with Neal & Carolyn
Cassady
"across the Arizona night"
on the way to
Mexico. Jack dated his entry (written while sitting in the back
seat of the
Cassadys' car) as April 1952 (no day, however).
Hope this is
helpful -
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Press
PS: There are
still a few copies of "Visions Of America" available.
EMail for more
information. Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:52:02 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Derek Alexander Beaulieu
<dabeauli@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Re: Reading the Beats
In-Reply-To: <960801121624_169454264@emout16.mail.aol.com>
jeffrey
i couldn't get
through on e-mail so i sought you out here. could you send
me some info
about "Visions of America". i'd be very keen on acquiring a
copy. thank you
very much
derek beaulieu
dabeauli@acs.ucalgary.ca
On Thu, 1 Aug
1996, Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:
>
> John (and
others):
>
> You are
correct in assuming that Jack's trip took place the last week of
> April 1952.
> In 1991, I
had access to Kerouac's 1952 travel notebooks.
> We published
an excerpt from the notebooks that Jack had titled "Visions Of
>
America". Visions of America details Kerouac's journey with Neal &
Carolyn
> Cassady
"across the Arizona night"
> on the way
to Mexico. Jack dated his entry (written while sitting in the back
> seat of the
Cassadys' car) as April 1952 (no day, however).
> Hope this is
helpful -
>
> Jeffrey
Weinberg
> Water Row
Press
>
> PS: There
are still a few copies of "Visions Of America" available.
> EMail for
more information. Thanks.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:31:47 CST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bob Jordan
<enjordan@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs quote
Interesting
quote, and very timely for me. I am teaching a class on the beat
writers this
fall, and in addition to the Charters anthology and a couple of
kerouac novels,
we are going to read Wolfe's Electric KoolAide Acid Test.
My purpose is to
show these kids in their tie-dyed shirts and Jerry Garcia ties
just how the
beats and the sixties connect. I will probably use this quote
and am interested
in any further information anyone might have on it.
In fact, if
anyone out there has any information, ideas, or insights that might
help me as I
structure this class, I would appreciate your sending them along.
You may send me
e-mail directly at enjordan@alpha.nlu.edu, or by post to
Robert Jordan,
Department of English, Northeast Louisiana University, Monroe,
Louisiana, 71211.
In the past, I
have done a couple of interesting projects in this class. We kept
journals,
following kerouac's rules for spontaneous prose, for two months. I
also kept a
journal. Then, following Burrough's cut-up method, we each submitted
som xeroxed pages
from our journals, cut them into individual lines, and re-
arranged them
into a long, stream of consciousness poem. One student then typed
the entire poem
on a scroll(in tribute to kerouac's first draft of on the road)
and gave a
reading at a local coffeehouse. Surprisingly, it was well-received.
At any rate, this
is an open ended class. My goal is to tear down as many
traditional
educational barriers as I can. Thanks for your time.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:32:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Burroughs quote
> Interesting
quote, and very timely for me. I am teaching a class on
> the beat
writers this fall, and in addition to the Charters anthology
> and a couple of kerouac novels, we are going to
read Wolfe's Electric
> KoolAide
Acid Test. My purpose is to show these kids in their tie-dyed
> shirts and
Jerry Garcia ties just how the beats and the sixties
> connect. I
will probably use this quote and am interested in any
> further
information anyone might have on it.
The quotation was
taken from the essay entitled 'Remembering Jack
Kerouac' from
The Adding
Machine
Calder, London,
1985
First American
edition: Seaver Books, New York, 1986
Arcade Books, New
York, 1993
In this piece
Burroughs also talks about how Fitzgerald in a sense
created the Lost
Generation by writing about it. This relates back to
what Burroughs
said about his meeting with Jasper Johns (this is from
memory, but it's
pretty accurate), "I met him in the 60's and asked him
what painting is
all about? He replied, "What is the purpose of writing?"
I said I didn't
know, but I know now: The purpose of writing is to make
it happen."
By writing about something you can bring it into being.
"The role of
the artist is to teach people what they know but don't know
that they
know." Burroughs says this quite often and uses Cezanne and
Joyce to
illustrate his point. The Lost Generation was there, but it did
not exist in
people's minds as a generation with its characteristics and
Zeitgeist until
Fitzgerald wrote it into being. In this way he argues
Kerouac
portended, and also had a hand in creating the 60's.
My advice is to
go to the source, read the essay, actually read all of
_The Adding
Machine_. What you get is a collection of thoughts and
reflections, and
also a little more _The Job_ type theory. You also get
to read
Burroughs' answer to the mysoginist accusations (called 'Women
are a Biological
Mistake'), as well as a very insightful piece on Proust
and Beckett.
Anyhow, I gave
the above quotations to contextualize the essay with
Burroughs' ideas
on the power and purpose of writing.
"Dreaming
can make it so."
William S. Burroughs
Cheers,
Neil M. Hennessy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:29:00 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Ghost of A Chance
I just finished
reading Burroughs' Ghost Of A Chance and found it so
much more
rewarding than My Education. Wonder what
others out there
think of the
relative merits of these works.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:47:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: question
Comments: cc:
wargue@inforamp.net
Hi Beat-L'ers:
Somebody sent me
this question, and I have no clue.
Anyone know?
> Several
years ago I came across some particularly interesting (to me)
> erotic
literature. It stood apart from the run
of the mill "grunt and
> groan"
pulp to such an extent that I never entirely forgot about it. A few
> months ago,
browsing through selections from the old Olympia/Ophelia Press
> I was
startled to find myself confronted by an exerpt from this same
>
material. Now, however, I had a name to
go with it - Tor Kung - and brief
> explanation
that he was "neither an Oriental nor a Viking" but that this
> was the pen
name of an American poet, born in Pittsburgh around 1929 who
>
"participated in the birth of the Beat movement in San Francisco and has
> read his
poetry around the world". He
apparently spent much of his adult
> life in
Europe.
>
> Despite what
appear to be obvious clues I can't make the connection. Any
ideas?
>
> There
doesn't seem to be any reference to his writing under the pen name in
> any of the
standard bibliographies one might normally consult, but I'd
> really like
to track down some of this old material and it seems my only
> chance is to
figure out his real identity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"don't push
me
cause I'm
close
to the
edge"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:58:52 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF
SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ghost of A Chance
It might be
interesting to read Burrough's MY EDUCATION along with Kerouac's
BOOK OF DREAMS. I
find it kind of hard to read about someone's dreams, but Jack
and Bill make it
interesting reading, especially side by side.
And on another
topic, does anyone know whatever happened to Kerouac's early
manuscript, THE
SEA IS MY BROTHER. (?) Thanks,
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:03:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Hank Chilton <TRUFFAUT@AOL.COM>
Subject: first time
So, my friends
"As soon as
they're outside, they play with the other children. Many
children are
playing in the garden-enclosed entryway, some of them are
standing and
staring at the upper front of the church at images of angels in
rain dimmed
stone.
I bow to all
this, kneel at my pew entryway, and go out, taking one last look
at St. Antoine de
Padue (St. Anthony) Santo Antonio de Padua. - Everything is
perfect on the
street again, the world is permeated with roses of happiness
all the time, but
none of us know it. The happiness
consists in realizing
that it is all a
great strange dream."
I am not the
greatest intellect on the subject, but I have read much about
the Beats. With the recent mentioning of Lonesome
Traveler", which I am now
reading for the
first time, I found the preceeding quote.
I love it. You
can find this
quote at the end of the chapter called "Mexico Fellaheen."
I think that I
love reading Kerouac because of his optimism in the beauty of
the world, his
love for the innocent, his ability to appreciate.
Hank
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 07:42:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghost of A Chance
Hello again.
Bill Gargan
wrote:"I just finished reading Burroughs' Ghost Of A Chance and
found it so much
more rewarding than My Education. Wonder
what others out
there
think of the
relative merits of these works"
I have only read
each of these works once. I found _My
Education_ to be more
rewarding than
_Ghost of Chance_. I'm not sure
why. Perhaps it was that I
thought that WSB
was giving me some valuable clues as to how fiction gets to
the paper.
Why did Bill
Gargan find _Ghost of Chance_ to be more worthwhile? I got a
few chuckles out
of it, but I thought it was sort of a take-it-or-leave-it
text, really.
Regards,
william Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:48:23 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghost of A Chance
I'M OFF TO THE
MOON FOR A CUP OF SAKE. wrote:
>
> And on
another topic, does anyone know whatever happened to Kerouac's early
> manuscript,
THE SEA IS MY BROTHER. (?) Thanks,
>
> Dave B.
Kerouac left this
manuscript in a taxicab in the late forties.
John H.
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:01:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<Robert.Peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Ghost of A Chance
>I'M OFF TO
THE MOON FOR A CUP OF SAKE. wrote:
>>
>> And on
another topic, does anyone know whatever happened to Kerouac's early
>>
manuscript, THE SEA IS MY BROTHER. (?) Thanks,
>>
>> Dave B.
>
>
>Kerouac left
this manuscript in a taxicab in the late forties.
>
>John H.
>Chicago
This story seems
apocryphal. I've read many variations on
the manuscript
in the cab story
(different manuscripts, different authors).
Even if this
story can be
traced back to Kerouac, I'm not sure I'd believe it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:19:46 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghost of A Chance
Robert Peltier
wrote:
>
> >I'M OFF
TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF SAKE. wrote:
> >>
> >> And
on another topic, does anyone know whatever happened to Kerouac's early
> >>
manuscript, THE SEA IS MY BROTHER. (?) Thanks,
> >>
> >>
Dave B.
> >
> >
> >Kerouac
left this manuscript in a taxicab in the late forties.
> >
> >John H.
> >Chicago
>
> This story
seems apocryphal. I've read many
variations on the manuscript
> in the cab
story (different manuscripts, different authors). Even if this
> story can be
traced back to Kerouac, I'm not sure I'd believe it.
Check the Nicosia
bio.
jwh
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:02:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Ghost of Chance
On Tue, 6 Aug
1996 07:42:04 -0400 William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM> wrote:
> I have only
read each of these works once. I found
_My Education_ to
> be more
rewarding than _Ghost of Chance_. I'm not
sure why. Perhaps
> it was that
I thought that WSB was giving me some valuable clues as to
> how fiction
gets to the paper.
I have to agree
with Mr. Miller here. I've read _My Education_ twice and
the reason I
enjoy it is that you seem to get a glimpse at the process of
writing that
Burroughs undergoes. His dreams are one of the most
important tools
in his fiction (he's said this many times, in many
places). I would
suggest that reading it alongside _The Western Lands_
would be more
frutiful than with _Book of Dreams_. I suggested a long
time ago that we
delve into the Land of the Dead in _My Education_ and
_The Western
Lands_ as a possible topic o' discussion. I never actually
got around to
doing a detailed enough reading to have anything
interesting to
say (one day I guess). Some passages that appear in _The
Western Lands_
could be, and probably are, straight from the same
material as _My
Education_. Autobiography merges with fiction as the old
man by the river
becomes indistinguishable from William Burroughs
himself:
Burroughs respects no boundaries.
Burroughs himself
says that other people's dreams are often very boring
and pointless to
listen to. Why? No context. _My Education_ is not for
the uninitiated
Burroughs reader. I cannot imagine that I would be as
much of an
admirer of Burroughs if that was the first book of his I had
read. Somehow
after having read all the Burroughs I could get my hands on,
as well as the
biographies and volumes of criticism, Burroughs' dreams do
have context -
that of his life and work. So, like W. Miller (I assume),
I find his flying
dreams interesting as models for the journeys in space
in _Cities of the
Red Night_, and his own journeys into the LOD in his
dreams as the
fertile ground for Joe the Dead and company's sojourns near
the Duad.
_My Education_
seems to be like an epistolary book, something you
wouldn't read
unless you were already very interested in the author.
_Ghost of Chance_
on the other hand is a work of fiction that stands
alone in and of
itself.
> Why did Bill
Gargan find _Ghost of Chance_ to be more worthwhile? I got a
> few chuckles
out of it, but I thought it was sort of a take-it-or-leave-it
> text,
really.
I got a few
chuckles out of it also (the Jesus part is hilarious). I also
found it to
contain (as did either Miles or Morgan, I can't remember)
some of the most
beautiful and almost lyrical writing Burroughs has ever put
to paper. Captain
Mission and the lemurs also evokes a very moving
pathos that I
didn't know Burroughs was capable of. You see flashes of
it in the intro
to _Queer_ or _The Cat Inside_ when his cats are injured
or sick.
One thing I was
not impressed with was the reproduction of Burroughs'
paintings in the
book. Burroughs had no hand in choosing the paintings
that were
included (at least that's what he said). Anyhow, I thought the
reproductions
were too small, and black and white just does not bring
forth the power
of his paintings, especially after seeing a whole bunch
of them in person.
Incidentally, the original Whitney Museum Edition was
illustrated by
someone else entirely (whose name I cannot recall right now).
Now that I'm
cleaning out the cobwebs, I posted a meaningless piece of
trivia a while
ago asking what was the only time Burroughs ever wrote
from a female
point of view. No-one ever answered and after 3 months the
contest is over
(it never really was a contest, but I could probably have
been persuaded to
send the answerer a copy of my chap-book). The answer
is in _Cities of
the Red Night_ where we read a diary entry of Hirondelle
de Mer asking
what would happen if all of North America were taken over
by the
Articulated and the Spanish were to be defeated. Unforunately she
ends by saying
that it is probably impossible for the Ariculated to
continue,
portending their ultimate defeat. (Those damn women always
ruining things in
the Burroughsian universe ;-) The passage is only a
page and a half
long and occurs around the 100 page mark. I'd love to
hear that I'm wrong
if anyone else can think of a female p.o.v. in a
Burroughs text.
Just some
thoughts to pass the time away...
Your Faithful
Reporter,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:39:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac Festival
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!, Inc
P.O. Box 1111,
Lowell, MA 01853
Jack Kerouac:
Athlete and Scholar
9th Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival
3-6 October 1996
"The bus
roared on. I was going home. Everybody goes home in October." On
the Road
"L'autobus
prosegui rombando. Stavo tornando a casa in Octobre. Tutti
tornano a casa in
Octobre." Sulla Strada
"It was
beautiful with falling red leaves aching," Vanity of Duluoz
The Annual Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! Festival is an opportunity for
enthusiasts to
gather in his hometown during his favorite month to share the
unique experience
of Jack Kerouac's art.
The Festival is
organized and produced by Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc.,
an all volunteer,
community -based organization. This year is the 9th Annual
Festival. Our
goal in planning the weekend, is to capture the spontaneous,
joyful spirit of
Jack Kerouac's writing. Although the final schedule for the
weekend does not
emerge until late summer. Major events, have already been
identified.
Each year we
select a theme for the festival. The theme of the 9th Annual
Festival is
"Jack Kerouac: Athlete and Scholar." The featured book is Vanity
of Duluoz.
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize Announcement and Reception- The 9th Annual
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival will open on Thursday evening, 3 October
with the
announcement of the winner of the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize, and
presentation of
the winning manuscript at the Lowell Barnes & Noble Bookstore.
Memorial Mass for
Jack Kerouac- A memorial mass for Jack Kerouac will be
held at the St.
Louis Roman Catholic Church, the parish in which he spent
his earliest
years.
Beat Literature
Conference- The University of Massachusetts-Lowell will
present an
academic conference on Jack Kerouac and the Beat writers on
Friday, 4 October
at the University's South Campus. Leading scholars of beat
culture and
literature will present papers and ideas in symposia and panels
throughout the
day.
Kerouac Quilt.
Merrimack Valley poets will present a cycle of poetry
constructed
around a theme of Kerouac and quilts. The event will take place
in the New
England Quilt Museum, which is planning an exhibition of
specialty quilts
sponsored by the Smithsonian Institution, and a period
bedroom, much
like the one Jack might have slept in.
Kerouac
Documentary- Doug and Judy Sharples of Cottonwood Productions, will
preview their
film, "Go Moan for Man" during the festival. The movie visits
scenes from
"On the Road".
Feature
Performance- Performances by well-known beat personalities or
performers will
highlight Friday and Saturday evenings. Negotiations for
this year's
festival are under way. Allen Ginsberg, Patti Smith, Gregory
Corso, Herbert
Huncke, Ray Manzarek and Michael McClure have performed in
the past.
Small Press Book
Fair- The small press book fair is an opportunity to sample
regional small
press publications, and pick-up Kerouac books- new and rare.
Poetry at The
Rainbow Cafe- Authors read their works in the Kerouacian
ambiance of a
neighborhood tavern in "Little Canada." Everyone is welcome to
read their poetry
or prose, but time is limited, please reserve a spot ahead
of time.
Symposium- As
part of our mission to encourage the study and enjoyment of
Jack Kerouac's
art, Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc. sponsors an afternoon
symposium at a
downtown location. This year's event will feature Mr. Glenn
Stout who has
conducted extensive research into Kerouac's athletic career.
Walking Tours-
Walking tours of Kerouac sites in Lowell are conducted
throughout the
weekend. The tours change each year, but almost always
include: Our Lady
of Lourdes Grotto, the Watermelon Man Bridge, the
Merrimack River,
and many of the neighborhood sites Jack wrote about.
Bus Tours- Bus
tours of Lowell and Nashua, NH provide a more leisurely tour
sites in these
two Kerouac cities. Jack Kerouac's mother and father met and
the family,
including Gerard are buried in Nashua.
RESERVATIONS ARE
REQUIRED FOR ALL TOURS. ALL TOURS ARE IN ENGLISH. TOURS IN
FRENCH ARE
AVAILABLE ON REQUEST.
Open Microphone
at the Coffee Mill- Sunday afternoons are reserved for an
open microphone
reading and performance at the Coffee Mill in downtown
Lowell. Everyone
is welcome to read their work. Sip expresso while waiting
your turn at the
microphone. .
Many other
activities are available during the weekend:
Exhibits of first
edition beat publications and memorabilia.
Jack Kerouac's
rucksack and other personal items are on display at the
Working People
Exhibit, Lowell National Historical Park.
Edson Cemetery.
Jack Kerouac is buried in the Edson Cemetery just south of
Downtown Lowell.
The cemetery is open from sun-up to sun-down every day.
Music and
conversation- There will be many opportunities throughout the
weekend to share
your festival experience and enthusiasm for Jack Kerouac
while enjoying a
beer at local taverns and nightspots.
***END***
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:42:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Female p.o.v. in Burroughs <fwd>
Comments: cc:
Gary Lee-Nova <a1432@Mindlink.BC.CA>
On Tue, 6 Aug
1996 20:53:48 -0800 Gary Lee-Nova <a1432@Mindlink.BC.CA> wrote:
> Neil, I
can't seem to successfully post to the beat list, so;
>
> At 16:02
06/08/1996, Neil Hennessy typed:
>
> >I'd love
to hear that I'm wrong if anyone else can think of a female
> >p.o.v.
in a Burroughs text.
>
> >Your
Faithful Reporter,
> >Neil
>
> Neil;
>
> I don't
think you're wrong here, but how about "The Literary Techniques Of
> Lady Sutton-Smith"
?
>
> Gary
Lee-Nova * Emily Carr Institute Of Art & Design * Vancouver B.C.
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Internet:
a1432@Mindlink.bc.ca -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I'm at a loss
here. Where was the afore-mentioned passage?
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:10:17 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Dr. Sax speaks
There exists an
audio recording of Jack Kerouac reading from *Dr. Sax*.
I believe it was
recorded around 1960. It's at least an hour long. Bits
of it can be
heard in the movie *What Happened to Kerouac?*
Does anyone know
how I might obtain a copy of this recording? I don't
believe it was
ever commercially released.
If anyone can
copy it for me we could swap tapes. I have numerous hours
of Burroughs
reading.
John
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:24:02 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:47:12 -0700
from
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
On Mon, 5 Aug
1996 13:47:12 -0700 Levi Asher said:
>Hi
Beat-L'ers:
>
>Somebody sent
me this question, and I have no clue.
Anyone know?
>
>> Several
years ago I came across some particularly interesting (to me)
>> erotic
literature. It stood apart from the run
of the mill "grunt and
>>
groan" pulp to such an extent that I never entirely forgot about it. A few
>> months
ago, browsing through selections from the old Olympia/Ophelia Press
>> I was
startled to find myself confronted by an exerpt from this same
>>
material. Now, however, I had a name to
go with it - Tor Kung - and brief
>>
explanation that he was "neither an Oriental nor a Viking" but that
this
>> was the
pen name of an American poet, born in Pittsburgh around 1929 who
>>
"participated in the birth of the Beat movement in San Francisco and has
>> read his
poetry around the world". He
apparently spent much of his adult
>> life in
Europe.
>>
>> Despite
what appear to be obvious clues I can't make the connection. Any
> ideas?
>>
>> There
doesn't seem to be any reference to his writing under the pen name in
>> any of
the standard bibliographies one might normally consult, but I'd
>> really
like to track down some of this old material and it seems my only
>> chance
is to figure out his real identity.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock
album)
>
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>
> "don't push
me
> cause I'm
close
> to the
edge"
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a vague
recollection that we've discussed this on the list before but I
can't quite come
up with the name of the author. I've
looked through several p
en name
directories and searched various library catalogs hoping for a cross re
ference to the
real name but to no avail. I did come up
with the title of the
work if that's
any consolation: My Mother Taught
Me. I'll keep working on it
in my spare time
and let you all know if I come up with anything.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:41:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Whiskey Weird Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: question
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%96080714273682@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Could the mystery
man be Gregory Corso? Just a guess--but I did read
somewhere in one
beat source or another that he wrote erotica for
Olympia. I
haven't his birthdate info at hand, but... and that "neither
oriental nor
Viking" bit would certainly seem to fit Corso's often impish
wit. And GC did
live in Paris for some period, refining the poet maudit
routine. Am I
pissing at the stars here?
Best, Steve Smith
(Portland State U., Portland, OR)
On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Bill Gargan wrote:
> On Mon, 5
Aug 1996 13:47:12 -0700 Levi Asher said:
> >Hi
Beat-L'ers:
> >
> >Somebody
sent me this question, and I have no clue.
Anyone know?
> >
> >>
Several years ago I came across some particularly interesting (to me)
> >>
erotic literature. It stood apart from
the run of the mill "grunt and
> >>
groan" pulp to such an extent that I never entirely forgot about it. A few
> >> months
ago, browsing through selections from the old Olympia/Ophelia Press
> >> I
was startled to find myself confronted by an exerpt from this same
> >>
material. Now, however, I had a name to
go with it - Tor Kung - and brief
> >>
explanation that he was "neither an Oriental nor a Viking" but that
this
> >> was
the pen name of an American poet, born in Pittsburgh around 1929 who
> >>
"participated in the birth of the Beat movement in San Francisco and has
> >>
read his poetry around the world".
He apparently spent much of his adult
> >>
life in Europe.
> >>
> >>
Despite what appear to be obvious clues I can't make the connection. Any
> > ideas?
> >>
> >>
There doesn't seem to be any reference to his writing under the pen name in
> >> any
of the standard bibliographies one might normally consult, but I'd
> >>
really like to track down some of this old material and it seems my only
> >>
chance is to figure out his real identity.
> >
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
> >
> > Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> > (the beat literature web
site)
> >
> > Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> > (my fantasy folk-rock
album)
> >
> > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> >
> > "don't push
me
> > cause I'm
close
> > to
the edge"
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have a
vague recollection that we've discussed this on the list before but I
> can't quite
come up with the name of the author.
I've looked through several
p
> en name
directories and searched various library catalogs hoping for a cross r
e
> ference to
the real name but to no avail. I did
come up with the title of the
> work if
that's any consolation: My Mother Taught
Me. I'll keep working on it
> in my spare
time and let you all know if I come up with anything.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:49:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PTX.3.91.960807113620.19930A-100000@odin.cc.pdx.edu> from
"Whiskey Weird Smith"
at Aug 7, 96 11:41:20 am
> Could the
mystery man be Gregory Corso? Just a guess--but I did read
> somewhere in
one beat source or another that he wrote erotica for
> Olympia. I
haven't his birthdate info at hand, but... and that "neither
> oriental nor
Viking" bit would certainly seem to fit Corso's often impish
> wit. And GC
did live in Paris for some period, refining the poet maudit
> routine. Am
I pissing at the stars here?
Only one problem
-- Corso was born in Greenwich Village, not Pittsburgh.
I did get this
from one Beat-L'er --
> Just in case
my e-mail to the beat-l list doesn't make it (as often
> happens), my
guess is that Alex Trocchi (author of Cain's Book) is your
> mystery
pornographer. He doesn't match up with
all the details--he was
> Scottish,
not American, and influenced the Beat scene in Venice, not
> SF--but he
wrote a fair amount of cut-above porn and was associated with
> Olympia
Press in Paris. The age is about right
too, and I've learned
> from trying
to track down the facts about him that he had a lot of fun
> re-inventing
his own legend. He told his one-and-only
biographer an
> incredible
number of lies.
Maybe this is
right?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"don't push
me
cause I'm
close
to the
edge"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:05:30 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: tor kung
Can see why
Trocci was suggested. He did a number of
books for Olympia
but not that
title as far as I can tell.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:17:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Herbert Huncke
I just heard that
Herbert Huncke died this morning (Thursday).
For
those who don't
know, Huncke was a close friend of William S. Burroughs,
Jack Kerouac and
Allen Ginsberg during the days of their early adventures
together in New
York City. He was their prototypical
Times Square junkie/
hustler
connection, the "real thing" that they (especially Burroughs) often
tried to
emulate. He appeared in "On The
Road" as the character named
Elmer Hassel (Sal
and Dean are always wondering "Where's Elmer Hassel"),
and in
"Junky" as the experienced drug-user Herman. According to Kerouac,
who first used
the term "beat" to describe his literary generation, it was
Huncke who first
introduced him to the word.
Like almost all
friends of Ginsberg, Kerouac and Burroughs, Huncke became
a published
writer after the beat phemonenon occurred.
His story "Elsie
John,"
reprinted in Ann Charters collection "The Beat Reader," is a raw,
honest and fascinating
piece. He also wrote an autobiography
called
"Guilty of
Everything."
He lived out his
last years in the Chelsea Hotel in New York City. He
was taken to Beth
Israel Hospital a few days ago, and that's where he
died this morning
at 7:15.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"don't push
me
cause I'm
close
to the
edge"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:09:19 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: Herbert Huncke
Levi Asher wrote:
>
> I just heard
that Herbert Huncke died this morning (Thursday).
This is sad news.
Huncke was the Beatest of them all and a cool writer
to boot. He also
has the dubious distinction of being the man who gave
Burroughs his
first shot of junk.
Huncke came to my
neighborhood, Wicker Park in Chicago, two or three
years ago to do a
reading. I heard he stopped in at a hangout of mine,
Myopic Books, but
I missed him. A friend told me he met him that weekend
because he knew
the people with whom Huncke was staying. A one point,
the host asked
Huncke if there was anything he would like. Huncke
replied,
"How 'bout a blow job." This story is from my friend who was
there.
Two years ago I
was browsing in an upscale used book store in Houston
when I
spontaneously wondered to myself, "Gee, I wonder if Huncke's
autobiography is
here?" I gasped as a hardcover edition of "Guilty of
Everything"
with dustcover leaped into my field of vision, causing
everything
surrounding it to go out of focus. As any bibliophile knows,
there's nothing quite
like the rush of finding the rare and obscure
volume you are
actually looking for at that moment. I bought the book
for ten bucks.
I've since read
and enjoyed tremendously "Guilty of Everything". You
know how when you
read Burroughs and you've heard his voice on tape and
you can't get
that voice out of your head while you're reading? Well
it's the same
with Huncke. His slow smirking drawl is a crucial aspect
of the reading
experience.
The book has
Huncke's versions of such incidents as his first meeting
with Burroughs,
his arrest with Ginsberg in 1949, his time spent living
on Burroughs'
farm in Texas, and that ill-fated drive he made with
Cassady and
Burroughs from Texas to New York to try and sell Bill's
uncured weed.
"Guilty of Everything" is an important volume in my
chronological
reading of the published Beat Canon.
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:17:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax speaks
There are two
tapes that feature Kerouac reading from Dr. Sax. They have been
circulating the
Kerouac "Underground" since 1965.
I.
Kerouac/Cassady. San Jose 1952 or 1953. (See Charters Bibliography item
E-5):
a. Neal Cassady
Reading from Proust. 3:39
b. "Foggy Day in London Town" 3:20
"Funny Valentine" 2:39
c. Kerouac reads
from Dr. Sax 0:20
d. Improvised
jazz riff by Kerouac 3:50
e. Kerouac reads
funeral section from Dr. Sax; Cassady in background. 3:10
f. Kerouac and
Cassady discuss Wm. Burroughs 1:00
2. Kerouac at
Northport Long Island - 1964:
a. kerouac reads
from Dr. Sax with Sinatra record playing in the background.
b. Kerouac reads
from Old Angel Midnight and other poems, humming and singing
along to Sinatra
record.
c. Kerouac reads
from Dr Sax with Sinatra record playing in background.
(I do not know
the length of time of each segment; I never bothered to time
them)
I hope this
information is helpful -
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:36:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Harms
<tmharms@LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax speaks
In-Reply-To:
<960808191724_174525208@emout10.mail.aol.com>
> There are
two tapes that feature Kerouac reading from Dr. Sax. They have been
> circulating
the Kerouac "Underground" since 1965.
Any chance of
tape tree cropping up on this list? The
Rhino 'JK
Collection' is
pretty good but this tape sound even better...
Ted Harms Library, Univ. of Waterloo
tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca 519.888.4567 x3761
"I got it
all when I gave it back." N. Young
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:43:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax speaks
Great info.
Any info on how
to get a hold of this.
I run the Kerouac
speaks site and this would be a nice addition.
At 07:17 PM
8/8/96 -0400, you wrote:
>There are two
tapes that feature Kerouac reading from Dr. Sax. They have been
>circulating
the Kerouac "Underground" since 1965.
>
>I.
Kerouac/Cassady. San Jose 1952 or 1953. (See Charters Bibliography item
>E-5):
>a. Neal
Cassady Reading from Proust. 3:39
>b. "Foggy Day in London Town" 3:20
> "Funny Valentine" 2:39
>c. Kerouac
reads from Dr. Sax 0:20
>d. Improvised
jazz riff by Kerouac 3:50
>e. Kerouac
reads funeral section from Dr. Sax; Cassady in background. 3:10
>f. Kerouac
and Cassady discuss Wm. Burroughs 1:00
>
>2. Kerouac at
Northport Long Island - 1964:
>a. kerouac
reads from Dr. Sax with Sinatra record playing in the background.
>b. Kerouac
reads from Old Angel Midnight and other poems, humming and singing
>along to
Sinatra record.
>c. Kerouac
reads from Dr Sax with Sinatra record playing in background.
>(I do not
know the length of time of each segment; I never bothered to time
>them)
>
>I hope this
information is helpful -
>
>Jeffrey
Weinberg
>Water Row
Books
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 09:40:07 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: huncke
I was sorry to
learn of Huncke's death yesterday.
Earlier posts have
nicely summed up
his contribution to Beat literature. I
had the good
fortune to do an
interview with him for the Literary Denim several years
ago. He was, as today's New York Times obituary
points out, gracious,
well-mannered,
and a hell of a good story teller. I
spoke briefly with
him in Lowell
last October where he gave a wonderful reading at the
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac Conference. He will certainly be
missed.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 12:16:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: huncke
Huncke's passing
really is symbolic of the gradual, now almost total death of
a certain type of
rough and tumble American culture that once flourished in
Times Square in
NY, many places in Chicago, 3rd and Howard in SF, Market St.
in St. Louis and
the Denver of Neil Cassidy's time...to name a few places in
time. I don't romanticize the world of Herbert
Huncke. That would be a
mistake. It was often a cruel and seemingly hopeless
world...a world where
freedom abounded
but people often paid a pretty terrible price for it. It's
not my world to
go on week long benders, to have the monkey of herion on your
back or even pushing
the limits of sexual expermentation.
But, I can't help
feeling that we
have lost something important. I'll miss Herbert Huncke.
Jerry Garcia too.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:22:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sean McDonnell
<smcdonne@DOLPHIN.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: huncke
In-Reply-To:
<960809121617_452617710@emout10.mail.aol.com> from "Howard
Park"
at Aug 9, 96 12:16:18 pm
> Jerry Garcia too.
STERLING MORRISON
too!
August is a cruel
month!!!
s
--
"Everything
depends.
Nothing is always.
Everything is sometimes
Nothing is everything."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:47:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ted Harms
<tmharms@LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Huncke's Death
If there's a
funeral service, I wonder who'd all show up?
Do the remaining
Beats even get along? I really can't see
Gins and
Burroughs having
much to say to each other anymore...
Ted Harms Library, Univ. of Waterloo
tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca 519.888.4567 x3761
"I got it
all when I gave it back." N. Young
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:42:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Kerouac article
I was away for
awhile so don't know if there was any discussion in this
group of Ralph
Lombreglia's review of Ann Charters "Portable Kerouac"
and
"Selected Letters" in the August "Atlantic Monthly"
Thoughtful
analysis of Jack
and his impact by a declared non-fan.
Can be read at
http://www.theAtlantic.com/atlantic/issues/96aug/jackk.htm
In addition to
some really insightful analysis of Jack the man,
Lombreglia writes
rather interestingly on a topic we probably beat to
death last
spring--the influence of booze and drugs on Jack's writing.
"Many
writers deny that they have ever written a single word in any
condition other
than stone-cold sobreity. At least some
of them are
lying. Kerouac always admitted that he wrote while
he was high.
"Selected
Letters" confirms that he rarely wrote fiction except under
the influence of
one substance or another--Benzedrine, marijuana, or
alcohol in his
early years, mostly alcohol later on.
For Kerouac,
literal
intoxication provided both the physical rush that propelled him
through his long
writing sessions and the freedom from his censorious
self--his
internalization of his clannish, Old World family and
particularly of
his mother, the ever-present 'Memere'."
Jim Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:32:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac article
Ralph L. a
non-fan of Jack Kerouac?
Then he had us
all fooled - After all, he was the co-director and co-producer
of the Viking
Penguin CD-Rom, Jack Kerouac Romnibus. While he was doing
research and
gathering materials for the CD-Rom, he pretended as if he was a
big fan of Jack's
-
You mean he did
the project just for the money?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 09:31:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: latest schedule Insomniacathon 96
RANT for the
renaissance. The Eisenhower Center for American Studies,
The Majic Bus at
University of New Orleans, and TRIBE present Voices
Without Restraint
48-Hour Non-Stop Music & Poetry INSOMNIACATHON 1996
at The New
Orleans Contemporary Arts Center, The Mermaid Lounge, &
The Howlin Wolf
Club August 16-18
PERFORMANCE
Schedule (4th Draft)
Friday August 16
Contemporary Arts
Center, 10AM to 10:30PM
900 Camp Street
(Admission: Free)
10-10:30AM Univ
of New Orleans Jazz Ensemble
10:30-10:45
Welcome & introduction by historian, author of THE MAJIC
BUS: An American
Odyssey and INSOMNIACATHON host, DOUGLAS BRINKLEY
10:45-11:30 Poet
E. ETHELBERT MILLER, director of Howard University's
African American
Resource Center, reads with poets from YA/YA (Young
Artists/Young
Aspirations)
11:30-1:30
RAMBLIN' JACK ELLIOTT, Grammy winning folk artist performs
and discusses his
tours with Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan.
Performance and
discussion of jazz, folk, & world music with composer
and poet DAVID
AMRAM
1:30-2:30PM
Discussion (Performance) of the music and poetry of the
Beats with ED
SANDERS, lead singer for The Fugs and author of TALES OF
BEATNIK GLORY
2:30-3:30 Local
Poetry Hour with Ralph Adamo, Dennis Formento, Leonard
Earl Johnson,
Maxine Cassin, and Alex Rawls
3:30-5PM AMIRI
BARAKA, poet and author of BLUES PEOPLE, & ROBERT PALMER,
author of DEEP
BLUES, discuss the cultural significance of The Blues.
5-7PM TRIBE
Magazine's Dangerous Variety Show (Kim Fowley M.C.)(16mm.
films courtesy of
Zeitgeist Theater Experiments): CHRIS WADDINGTON,
POPPY Z. BRITE,
RENE BROUSSARD, CHRIS ROSE, KALAMU YA SALAAM,
JOHN
COLLINS & HIS
PROMETHEAN TROUPE, GODIVA, FAST FOOD,
BONE ALLEY, CHRIS
CHAMPAGNE, LEE
GRUE
7-8PM ROBERT
CREELEY discusses The Black Mountain School of Poetry
8-9PM JOHN
SINCLAIR & THE BLUES SCHOLARS perform their unique brand of
blues/jazz
infused poetry
9-10:30 Poetry
reading: E. ETHELBERT MILLER, ROBERT CREELEY,
& AMIRI
BARAKA
The Mermaid
Lounge The Howlin'
Wolf,
1100 Constance
Street, 828 South
Peters Street
10:30PM to
10AM 10:30PM to
2AM
504-524-4747 504-523-2551
(no cover) ($5 cover)
10:30-11:30PM THE
WILD MAGNOLIAS 10:30-2
STORYVILLE (Texas
(Native
American) Blues)
11:30-2 ALL THAT
(Brass Funk Rap
NoWayToReallyDescribeNewOrleansInterRacialSoundsBand)
2-3:30AM COMPOST
Peformers & SUSI K (Poets, Performers, Musicians from
NY, MA, LA)
3:30-4AM
GOLDIELOX & FRIENDS (hiphop)
4-4:30 IMPALA
SUPER (scruff punk)
4:30-5AM NEMO
(poetry & sounds)
5-6AM poets:
BRUCE BEROFF(KY), LORI TURNER(KY), MATTHEW OSBORN(KY),
REBEKAH
REEVES(KY), MICHELLE FOWLER(KY), ANDREA RONEY(KY)
6-7AM poets: GUI
STUART(KY), AMANDA HAMMONS(KY), LUKE BUCKMAN(KY), KEVIN
COOMBS(KY), DEBI
COOMBS(KY), SETH COHEN(KY)
7-8AM poets:
HEATHER KOLF(KY), J.B. WILSON(KY), REVERAND JAYNE
PRAXIS(KY),
DEIRDRE SKAGGS(KY), JOHN HAGAN(KY), JEFF ECKMANN(KY)
8-9AM poets: WILL
KOTHEIMER(KY), DANNY O'BRYAN(KY), ANNIE
McCLANAHAN(KY),
RICH MARTIN(CT), MATT KOHN(NY), JORDAN GREEN(KY),
MICHAEL
LEONARD(NY), CHRIS KUBICEK(FL), KENT FIELDING(AK), ERIK
LaPRADE(NY)
Saturday, August
17
Contemporary Arts
Center
900 Camp Street,
10AM to 10:30PM
(admission free)
10-11AM Composer
DAVID AMRAM discusses jazz poetry; performance by the
UNO Jazz Ensemble
11-12:30
Discussion and booksigning with GEORGE McGOVERN, 1972
Democratic
Presidential Nominee and author of TERRY: MY DAUGHTER'S LIFE
AND DEATH
STRUGGLE WITH ALCOHOLISM
12:30-1:30PM JAY
McINERNEY, author of BRIGHT LIGHTS, BIG CITY discusses
contemporary
literature and reads from his new book, THE LAST OF THE
SAVAGES
1:30-2PM
Discussion on the Legacy of The Beats (& Performance) with
INSOMNIACATHON
host RON WHITEHEAD, poet, publisher, & author of
I WILL NOT BOW
DOWN
2-3PM Poetry
& music by HERSCH SILVERMAN & CHANNEL NINE;
& LOUIS
BICKETT and THE CULTURAL MUDDING RITUAL
3-4:30PM Premiere
of THE CONEY ISLAND OF LAWRENCE FERLINGHETTI
documentary and
discussion with filmmaker CHRIS FELVER
4:30-4:45 W.
LORAN SMITH, poet, author of THE BOY WHO BECAME A BOOK
4:45-5:15 SUSI
WOOD (folk, mountain)
5:15-5:30 FRANK
MESSINA, poet, author of SONG FOR THE POET
5:30-6:30 TRIBE's
Dangerous Variety Show (NICOLE BLACKMAN M.C.):
SPECIAL AGENT
VICTOR IMPOSSIBLE'S CRUCHON de LAIT featuring:
THE RAMPARTS with
MAD MARCUS, DELVIC and THE DELVIC RANCHEROS, THE
BASTARD SONS OF
JOHN HENRY, PAN AMERICAN ALL-STARS, NINTH WARD FREAK
PARADE, TALL
PAUL, THE NWWF - THE NINTH WARD WRESTLING FEDERATION
6:30-7PM Poetry
readings by WILLIE SMITH and JIM McCRARY
7-7:30PM TOM
PIAZZA reads from his new book, BLUES AND TROUBLE
7:30-8:30PM
RICHARD HELL, founder of the seminal New York punk band
RICHARD HELL and
THE VOIDOIDS, discusses his new book, GO NOW
8:30-10:30PM
Readings by ANDREI CODRESCU, poet, social commentator, and
author of THE
BLOOD COUNTESS
& JOHN RECHY,
author of the 1963 bestseller CITY OF NIGHT
and his
latest book OUR
LADY OF BABYLON
The Howlin' Wolf
828 South Peters
Street, 10:30PM to 10AM
($5 cover)
504-524-4747
10:30-11:30 CASEY
CYR, RON WHITEHEAD, FRANK MESSINA, HERSCH SILVERMAN,
DAVID AMRAM,
& FRIENDS
11:30-2 THE
IGUANAS
12:30-1 TRIBE
presents NICOLE BLACKMAN (NYC poetry diva performs during
THE IGUANAS'
timeout)
2-2:10
WENDY-CHARLY LEMMON(spokenwordperformer)
2:10-3AM ELEVEN
ELEVEN (newwavepunk)
3-4AM BLACK PIG
LIBERATION FRONT (multimediabandoffutureherenow)
& GRAND
PASSION (newwavepunk)
4-8AM OPEN
MIC/OPEN STAGE (signups start round midnight)
8-9:30AM poetry:
COTTON SEILER (KA), ALBERT KAUSCH (MA), KIRSTIN OGDEN
(AK), GENE
SIMMONS (AK), AURORA LEE (LA), ANDY DI MICHELE (LA),
MICKEY HESS (KY)
9:30-10AM HERSCH
SILVERMAN & CHANNEL NINE
plus LOUIS
BICKETT & THE CULTURAL MUDDING RITUAL
INSOMNIACATHON
1996 produced by RON WHITEHEAD for DOUGLAS BRINKLEY
Special Thanks to
LEE LEVERT for diligently directing the New Orleans
Event
Headquarters from The Eisenhower Center. This event wouldn't have
happened without
her hard work. Plus Thanks to Molly Wright, the entire
Eisenhower Center
staff, plus the 25 students/poets who traveled &
worked with Ron
Whitehead, Kent Fielding, & the literary renaissance to
help produce
INSOMNIACATHON 1996. Also thanks to Rand Ragusa, Alex
Beard, Kevin
Lezak, George "Hutch" Hutchinson, Peter Orr, John
Fitzgerald, &
the entire TRIBE staff for helping make this event happen.
Thanks also go to
Metropolitan College at University of New Orleans, The
Louisiana
Endowment for The Humanities, Tennessee Williams Festival,
Windsor Court
Hotel, Hilton Riverside Hotel, Le pavillon Hotel, Le
Meridien Hotel,
Hampton Inn, Hotel Inter-Continental, EXQUISITE CORPSE
Magazine, The New
Orleans Contemporary Arts Center, The Mermaid Lounge,
The Howlin Wolf
Club, The New Orleans Poetry Forum, The City of New
Orleans.
Event Sponsors:
The Eisenhower Center for American Studies, The Majic
Bus at The
University of New Orleans, the literary renaissance,
White Fields
Press, & TRIBE Magazine.
2:50-
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:56:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Hunke funeral arraignments??????????
If anyone knows
the funeral details could you please post them to the list.
There was nothing
about that in the New York Times only an article about
Hunke's life.
Maybe it will be a private service. Thanks Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:17:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac article
Jeffrey Weinberg
wrote:
>
> Ralph L. a
non-fan of Jack Kerouac?
>This is his
own description, a perhaps innaccurate.
He describes
himself as not a
K. "fanatic" in acknowledging his participation in the
CD ROM project in
which Charters was involved. Perhaps he
sees himself
as somewhat more
objective than nuts like those of us who subscribe to
this list.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:37:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott Greenberg
<SGreenb622@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac story
In one of Kerouac's
letters he mentions a 10,000-word short story he'd just
finished called
"cityCityCITY." Does anyone
know if it was ever published?
Was it published with the same title? Where can I get it?
-Scott G.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 23:31:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac story
Scott and others:
cityCityCITY,
Kerouac's science fiction vision of the future, has been added
to the revised
edition of Good Blonde & Others, Edited by Don Allen, Grey Fox
Press, 1994.
cityCityCITY was
first published as "The Electrocution," in the men's mag,
NUGGET, August
1959; reprinted as CITYCitycity in The Moderns, edited by
Leroi Jones,
Corinth Books, 1963.
We have Good
Blonde & Others in stock. 217 pgs. Paper ed.
Contact me for
further information.
Hope this
information proves helpful -
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Books
PO Box 438
Sudbury MA 01776
Tel 508-485-8515
Fax 508-229-0885
EMail
Waterrow@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:08:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hunke funeral arraignments??????????
Phil wrote:
*****If anyone
knows the funeral details could you please post them to the
list.
There was nothing
about that in the New York Times only an article about
Hunke's life.
Maybe it will be a private service. Thanks Phil*****
I'm sure that Mr.
Huncke was "arraigned" many times in his life, but let's
hope that he
won't be arraigned at his own funeral.
If that was a
slip, it was a good one. If that was an
attempt to poke a
little fun, it
was a good one too.
RIP Herbert
Huncke.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:33:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Justin Stone @Bourque96 I hope I
got it right? Nice pages!"
<Bourque96@AOL.COM>
Subject: Get me off this list
Please get me off
this list I can't stand it anymore
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:16:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Hunke funeral arraignments??????????
At 09:08 AM
8/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Phil wrote:
>
>*****If
anyone knows the funeral details could you please post them to the
>list.
>There was
nothing about that in the New York Times only an article about
>Hunke's life.
Maybe it will be a private service. Thanks Phil*****
>
>I'm sure that
Mr. Huncke was "arraigned" many times in his life, but let's
>hope that he
won't be arraigned at his own funeral.
>
>If that was a
slip, it was a good one. If that was an
attempt to poke a
>little fun,
it was a good one too.
>
>RIP Herbert
Huncke.
>
>William
Miller
>
>Sorry it was
an error do to the wonders of spell check I spelled
arrangements
without the e and the spell check substituted arraignments and
I didn't even
notice it. I could never spell.Sorry. Has anyone heard
anything about
his funeral SERVICE? Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:58:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sean McDonnell
<smcdonne@DOLPHIN.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
In-Reply-To:
<960812094805_454378663@emout16.mail.aol.com> from "Bourque96
I
hope I got it right? Nice
pages!" at Aug 12, 96 10:33:12 am
>
> Please get
me off this list I can't stand it anymore
>
which part can't
you stand?
--
"Everything
depends.
Nothing is always.
Everything is sometimes
Nothing is everything."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:06:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy
<nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Beat TV Special
Found this on
rec.music.dylan everyone's favourite Bob Dylan forum:
rec.music.dylan
#61537 (20 + 122 more) (1)
Comments: Gated
by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7BIT
Content-Type:
Text/plain
Date: Fri Aug 09
08:14:38 EDT 1996
From: Margaret
Andreas <U0A75@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU>
[1] Beats on TV
Lines: 13
No idea if this
has Bob-content or not,
but our local
Public Broadcasting System has
this show
scheduled for Sunday night,
August 25, at
9:30 pm.
(That's Channel 13
in Pittsburgh)
_THE BEAT
GENERATION_: An American Dream
"Steve Allen
hosts this look at group of writers
who questioned America's post-war values.
Interviews include Jack Kerouac, Allen
Ginsberg,
Le Roi Jones, William
Burroughs."
Macarina (er, sorry)
MARGUERITA
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:48:17 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF
SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Herbert Huncke
I met Huncke a
few times in Allen's kitchen while I worked on cataloging AGs
tapes and videos
for Columbia. Once he visited while I was woringk on the tapes
and we both had
very bad colds. I felt sorry for myself, feeling like I might
flop over and die
from this strain of NYC flu. But Huncke was still going on
strong. He looked
and sounded awful but kept saying, "Ah, I'm surivor, it'll
take more than
this to kill me off! I looked at him, old and battered (and this
was ten years
ago), and I said to myself, 'this man IS a survivor!
The times I met
huncke alawys presented him as a gnerous, kind and polite
character with a dry sense of humor. Since
that early meeting, when I feel low
I can hear
Hunckes voice in my ear..."I'm a survivor, ain't you?
Though needless
to say, this ancient Junky was indeed "Guilty of Everything."
I hope is surving
somewhere good righgt now, perhaps chewing mushrooms with
Leary
Sorry to herar
the news...
Dave B. in
Gambier, Ohio
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:00:22 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF
SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax speaks
I have a dub of
that Kerouac recording in which he sings with a Frank Sinatra
record in the
background. Makes for a very haunting piece. I think this one had
something to do
with Jerry Nuemen. Not the best quality but good enough. If you
want to contact
me and send me a blank tape I will dub one for anyone who asks.
(Of course money
will not change hands and the tapes must be destroyed beneath
a full moon to
satisfy the copywrite club.)
Let me know!
Thanks,
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:34:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "V.J. Eaton" <vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Gargan on Huncke/Denim
BG says:
> I had the good fortune to do an interview
with him for the Literary Denim
several years
>ago. . . . . .
>
Don't know,
Bill, if I ever did indicate what a fine
job you did getting
Huncke's
personality out. --Best piece in that little book (1984), an
American classic.
Thx. . . .
--VJ Eaton, the denim
\|//
(o o)
-------------------------------oOO--(
)--OOo---------------------------------
vj@primenet.com |
If you're not living on the edge . . . .
Tempe, AZ | . . . You're taking up too
much room.
|
------------------------------ooooO---Ooooo---------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 08:59:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Tribe
Hello Folks.
William Miller
here.
I just wanted you
all to know about a magazine I found the other day called
"Tribe". The focus is, of all things, "New
Orleans style-culture-ideas". I
have the August
issue in front of me.
Burroughs is on
the cover.
There is an
interview with Lawrence Ferlinghetti inside.
Also an interview
with William Burroughs.
There is a
"Beat for Dummies" family tree / flowchart inside.
A couple of other
beat-related articles inside, relating to the
Insomniacathon,
or whatever that thing is called.
The magazine
generally looks (judging by the non-beat lit material) pretty
tacky, but this
is a must (I think) -- A new Orleans regional rag with a
focus on this
Beat Event.....
If you can't get
_Tribe_ where you are, but you'd like a copy, just e-mail me
directly.
Regards,
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 06:31:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Tribe
In-Reply-To:
<960813085935_455248863@emout13.mail.aol.com> from "William
Miller" at Aug 13, 96
08:59:35 am
> If you can't
get _Tribe_ where you are, but you'd like a copy, just e-mail me
> directly.
I want one -- but
what's your email address? (For some
reason
return addresses
never show up for me on this list, though they
do on others.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"don't push
me
cause I'm
close
to the
edge"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 00:07:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Patrick G Blaine
<pgbst4+@PITT.EDU>
Subject: unsubscribe
In-Reply-To:
<960813085935_455248863@emout13.mail.aol.com>
sorry to do it
this way, but i'm pressed for time and have an inbox w/
about 1000 messages. i enjoyed the blist when i had time to read
it, and
found quite a few
things to explore in my spare time. i
hope to rejoin
the list at my
new school (uiowa). thanks to everyone
for a most
enlightening six
months.
pAt blaine
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:44:46 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: ADRIAN CHARLES BLACKBURN
<q6rych66@DEAKIN.EDU.AU>
Subject: Tribe Subscribe; On the road
Comments: To:
William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>, brooklyn@netcom.com
In-Reply-To:
<199608131331.GAA14847@netcom.netcom.com>
I'm not sure
where this message will end up, apologies if everyone gets
this.
William Miller -
Ditto the tribe email address request.
To Levi Asher I
just read your on the road audition piece, a cack, and I
didn't even know
it was in the works. How has the project progressed, ie
how long ago was
the audition?; and has Coppola done aught about it since?
Also has anyone
seen the On the road play done a couple of years ago? It
was performed in
Melbourne and England (I think). I saw it at St Martins
with a hootin
crowd.
Yrs, Aab Black
q6rych66@deakin.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:14:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Huncke's Death
Ginsberg and
Burroughs are still the best of friends, Allen has just spent a
week with him in
Kansas. Burroughs isn't in good enough
health to travel to
a memorial
service in New York, though.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:21:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tribe
Bill Morgan here:
Could you send me
the address on Tribe? I'd like to get a
copy because of
the Ferlinghetti
interview for my continuing bibliography.
Thanks,
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:17:22 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Burrough's health
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug
1996 08:14:09 -0400
From: William
Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM>
Subject: Re:
Huncke's Death
Ginsberg and
Burroughs are still the best of friends, Allen has just spent a
week with him in
Kansas. Burroughs isn't in good enough
health to travel to
a memorial
service in New York, though.
William et al
So what's the
score with Burrough's health? How's he doing? Anyone know?
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:09:07 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Kinsey/Beats
Dear gang,
While channel-surfing
last night I happened upon A&E's Biography of Dr.
Alfred Kinsey,
the great sex researcher. I thought to myself, "Gee, I
wonder
if..." and YES! Before the his picture even appeared on the
screen I
recognized THAT VOICE! None other than the late Mr. HERBERT
HUNCKE himself
relating the anecdote of his meeting and subsequent
interview with
Dr. Kinsey in the late 1940s. He dropped a few names of
people to whom he
introduced Dr. Kinsey for the purposes of interviews,
among whom was
WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS whose noble talking head thence
appeared on my
television screen, wryly reminiscing about the good
doctor.
I thought this
was good, Beat TV (BTV?). I welcomed the appearance of
Huncke's wiry,
smoking, smirking person on cable TV so soon after his
demise. Burroughs
was in good form, wearing his lapel pin from the
Academy of Arts
and Letters, holding back a smile.
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
P.S. To anyone
interested in the life and work of Dr. Kinsey I
enthusiastically
recommend "Dr. Kinsey and the Institute for Sex
Research" by
Wardell Pomeroy. Written by one of Kinsey's co-authors of
"Sexual
Behavior in the Human Male", this book is an insider's account
of the research,
interviewing techniques, data analysis, writing,
publishing and
subsequent controversy of that historic volume.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:57:16 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "B. Sorensen"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Dean Moriarty song lyrics
The saga of the
Beats in modern music continues. Check out a great song by
folk singer
songwriter Eric Taylor, found on his self-titled 1995 CD:
Dean Moriarty
Dean Moriarty
don't live here no more
He's off in
California, works in a liquor store
Where it's two
packs of cigarettes and one half a pint
And he's back to
his room on the Mexican side
Says he's through
with the railroad freight-car line
The fight between
the moon and the lantern light
Says I'm goin'
cross country but I might come back
But I'm stickin'
to the highway, to hell with the tracks
Chorus:
I can't take what
you may give me
I've always
wanted more
My Mercury hummin'
road may put me
To sleep outside
your door
I got a brand new
baby, she's got a new pair of shoes
He drivin'
somebody's car but he don't know whose
Been up all night
but it don't show
Won twenty-five
dollars in the hammer throw
Three-fingered
guitar and a saxophone bites
Jack's been
reading her poetry, he's been spillin' her wine
Her hair's so
pretty, she smells like Juicy Fruit gum
Her old man's the
black guy on the congo drums
Chorus
Maybe he should
call her, he just ain't got the dough
Maybe walk on
outside and check the radio
It's playin' her
song but it just ain't his
Man like him's
got no business with the wife and the kids
It's the last of
the red wine from a night full of thrill
It's a coast to
the bottom of a Frisco hill
How can a body
begrudge another body a ride?
I didn't steal
your car, man, I just borrowed it a while
Chorus
(Copyright Eric
Taylor, 1995. Reprinted without permission)
Incidentally,
Taylor seems to be a literary kind of guy. Another song
featured on the
CD is titled "Hemingway's Shotgun"...
Regards,
bs
Department of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 11:52:23 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Kinsey/Beats
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:09:07 +0000
from
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
On Wed, 14 Aug
1996 09:09:07 +0000 John W. Hasbrouck said:
>Dear gang,
>
>While
channel-surfing last night I happened upon A&E's Biography of Dr.
>Alfred
Kinsey, the great sex researcher. I thought to myself, "Gee, I
>wonder
if..." and YES! Before the his picture even appeared on the
>screen I
recognized THAT VOICE! None other than the late Mr. HERBERT
>HUNCKE
himself relating the anecdote of his meeting and subsequent
>interview
with Dr. Kinsey in the late 1940s. He dropped a few names of
>people to
whom he introduced Dr. Kinsey for the purposes of interviews,
>among whom
was WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS whose noble talking head thence
>appeared on
my television screen, wryly reminiscing about the good
>doctor.
>
>I thought
this was good, Beat TV (BTV?). I welcomed the appearance of
>Huncke's
wiry, smoking, smirking person on cable TV so soon after his
>demise.
Burroughs was in good form, wearing his lapel pin from the
>Academy of
Arts and Letters, holding back a smile.
>
>John
Hasbrouck
>Chicago
>
>P.S. To
anyone interested in the life and work of Dr. Kinsey I
>enthusiastically
recommend "Dr. Kinsey and the Institute for Sex
>Research"
by Wardell Pomeroy. Written by one of Kinsey's co-authors of
>"Sexual
Behavior in the Human Male", this book is an insider's account
>of the
research, interviewing techniques, data analysis, writing,
>publishing
and subsequent controversy of that historic volume.
I second John's
recommendation. It's an informative and
readable volume.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:08:04 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Bath
Since there was
so much interest in Tribe, I thought I'd let you all
know about Bath,
a free journal distributed in New York City.
Outside
NYC, subs are $24
a year or $4 an issue. The August 1996
issue features
a 4 page
article(including 2 pages of photos) on "A Week in Kerouac's
Lowell
1977" by Jimmy Wong. Wong ishard on Lowell and I think he's off
base. He describes Lowell as an unfriendly place
and complains about
the lack of
hotels in the downtown area. My friend Mike McLean and I
visited Lowell
several years earlier (like Wong by Greyhound) and found
a hotel right in
downtown Lowell on Bridge Street--I think it was called
the Surf
Hotel. It wasn't fancy but it was
convenient and inexpensive
at the time. We found the people in Lowell friendly and
generally
helpful, although
many knew nothing of Kerouac back in 1973 or 1974.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:40:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rodgers <Rodgers@TRACOR-A4.CCMGATE.TRACOR.COM>
Subject: Hunke et al
It really is amazing that any of these
guys are around at all now much
less in their eighties.
I read Hunke's contribution to The
Portable Beat Reader and wasn't
knocked out by his writing. It was pretty much reportage, yet I could
sense that he was trying to communicate
some message or moral in the
writing.
The moral was too esoteric for most, or perhaps you had to
be there to appreciate it, or maybe I need
to read some more of his
stuff.
He certainly was seminal to the Beats just
by association with
Burroughs, Kerouac and Ginsberg. He was truly a historical figure
among the Beat originators.
Can you think of a more romanticized
reallifetimessquarenewyorkjunkiehipster?
Whoever he was, he seemed to be the real
deal.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:49:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Bath
At 12:08 PM
8/14/96 EDT, you wrote:
>Since there
was so much interest in Tribe, I thought I'd let you all
>know about
Bath, a free journal distributed in New York City. Outside
>NYC, subs are
$24 a year or $4 an issue. The August
1996 issue features
>a 4 page
article(including 2 pages of photos) on "A Week in Kerouac's
>Lowell
1977" by Jimmy Wong. Wong ishard on Lowell and I think he's off
>base. He describes Lowell as an unfriendly place
and complains about
>the lack of
hotels in the downtown area. My friend Mike McLean and I
>visited Lowell
several years earlier (like Wong by Greyhound) and found
>a hotel right
in downtown Lowell on Bridge Street--I think it was called
>the Surf
Hotel. It wasn't fancy but it was
convenient and inexpensive
>at the
time. We found the people in Lowell
friendly and generally
>helpful,
although many knew nothing of Kerouac back in 1973 or 1974.
>
>I live in
Lowell and the Lowell of 1977 and the Lowell of 1996 are like
night and day in
comparison. Lowell has gone through an amazing transition
and has turned
around so much as to be a model for other cities in this
country. Largely
in part to the fact that they have a super police chief and
politicians like
Paul Tsongas and others who have faith and pride in their
city and never
gave up on it. It also has a hard working South-East Asian
population that
brings a wonderful culture and many businesses into the
city. I wish Jack
Kerouac was around to see all the Buddhist Temples and
culture that is
in the city of Lowell now. He would be proud of what has
become of Lowell.
By the way the Surf hotel if it could be called a hotel
was always a dump
and a shit hole. Lowell has a huge Shereton right downtown
on the canal and
it is a very nice place to stay and there are a lot of new
clubs downtown.
It's becoming a happening place. Ask any of the
approximately
150,000 people that came to the Lowell folk festival this
year. Why Bruce
Springstein is even coming to the Lowell Auditorium in the
fall if you can
believe that. Phil Chaput- lifelong (almost) resident of
Lowell . *LOWELL
PRIDE*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:38:59 U
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kuhn, Rick"
<rick_kuhn@MSMAIL-GW.WVMCCD.CC.CA.US>
Subject: FW: Insecurity kills!
(Third try
sending. Sorry for any dupes...er,
tripes?)
The actual
address of The Atlantic Monthly article is
<http://www.theatlantic.com/atlantic/issues/96aug/jackk/jackk.htm>
-- and very
good it is,
too. Thanks Jim.
So Phil, are the
"Projects" in Watertown (where I was born in '51 and lived
'til '62) yuppie
heaven now too? (Who am I to talk,
sitting five miles from
Los Gatos?!)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:29:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: MARILYN SOUDERS
<NEWI05B@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Bath
Yeah, but Mr.
Wong is probably a spring-water-drinking new ager while
you and McLean
either got to know the local folks down at the pub or
else you were so
soused already that you thought they were being nice
to you.
Did I tell you
already about some of the Fall faculty at Pratt: Kaye
Cassell, Tony C.
and Larry Brandwein (teaching administration!)
Oy
veh!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:29:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Tribe Subscribe; On the road (fwd)
> To Levi
Asher I just read your on the road audition piece, a cack, and I
> didn't even
know it was in the works. How has the project progressed, ie
> how long ago
was the audition?; and has Coppola done aught about it since?
This is a mystery
to me. Last I heard Coppola's son was
going to
direct it. I know Francis Ford C is still involved in
the concept
one way or
another. I'm basically hoping the idea
stays in
purgatory where
it probably belongs.
I did get a sneak
peek at one version of a screenplay about a year
ago. It wasn't too obnoxious. Very oriented towards Neal/Dean. No
Mexican Girl at
all. Overall: I didn't like it.
> Also has
anyone seen the On the road play done a couple of years ago? It
> was
performed in Melbourne and England (I think). I saw it at St Martins
> with a
hootin crowd.
I never heard of
this, sounds cool though!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web
site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock
album)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"don't push
me
cause I'm
close
to the
edge"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 03:39:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "M.Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: "Wholly Communion"
I was wondering
if anyone has knowledge of
where I could get
a video/audio copy of this film:
"Wholly
Communion" (Lorimar, 1965)
The reading at
the Royal Albert Hall in early
June of '65,
featuring Ginsberg, Corso, Ferlinghetti,
and other local
London poets.
Privately e-mail
me please.
Thanx,
Mike
<cake@ionline.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 05:06:17 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: dr kinsey
>Dear gang,
>While
channel-surfing last night I happened upon A&E's Biography of Dr.
>Alfred
Kinsey, the great sex researcher. I thought to myself, "Gee, I
>wonder
if..." and YES! Before the his picture even appeared on the
>screen I
recognized THAT VOICE! None other than the late Mr. HERBERT
>HUNCKE
himself relating the anecdote of his meeting and subsequent
>interview
with Dr. Kinsey in the late 1940s. He dropped a few names of
>people to
whom he introduced Dr. Kinsey for the purposes of interviews,
>among whom
was WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS whose noble talking head thence
>appeared on
my television screen, wryly reminiscing about the good
>doctor.
>I thought
this was good, Beat TV (BTV?). I welcomed the appearance of
>Huncke's wiry,
smoking, smirking person on cable TV so soon after his
>demise.
Burroughs was in good form, wearing his lapel pin from the
>Academy of
Arts and Letters, holding back a smile.
>John
Hasbrouck
>Chicago
>P.S. To
anyone interested in the life and work of Dr. Kinsey I
>enthusiastically
recommend "Dr. Kinsey and the Institute for Sex
>Research"
by Wardell Pomeroy. Written by one of Kinsey's co-authors of
>"Sexual
Behavior in the Human Male", this book is an insider's account
>of the
research, interviewing techniques, data analysis, writing,
>publishing
and subsequent controversy of that historic volume.
john, this
program was televised in the uk early april.
here's a copy of the
e-mail i sent on
04/04/96.
*****
just been
watching a documentary on tv titled 'reputations: alfred kinsey - the
man who invented
modern sex'. an american scientist who
conducted extensive
research into men
& women's sexual behaviour. the
documentary included
interviews with a
certain herbet hunke & william burroughs.
they were
interviewed in a
section concerned with homosexuality in chicago & new york.
herbet hunke
admitted to sexual relations with men.
when asked if he were
homosexual he
denied it. when asked why he simply said
'well its just sex!'.
william burroughs
mentioned the types who were interviewed...petty criminals,
prostitutes
etc. although he couldn't quite remember
which year he was
interviewed!
just thought
you'd all like to know...
incidentley,
after his books (sexual behaviour in the human male & female) were
published laws
against homosexuality were dropped, divorces were easier to get
and the sexual
revolution of 50's america started.
anyone on this
list around at that time? i think it
bears some relevance to how
the beats viewed
sex from the 'inside looking out' as well as the 'outside
looking in' (if
you know what i mean).
joe
***** end copy
since then i've
re-read 'on the road' & kerouac actually mentions dr kinsey &
the
interviews. unfortunately a friend has
my copy so i can't give page numbers
but it's
definetly in there.
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:47:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<Robert.Peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bath
> . . .I live
in Lowell and the Lowell of 1977 and the Lowell of 1996 are like
>night and day
in comparison. Lowell has gone through an amazing transition
>and has
turned around so much as to be a model for other cities in this
>country. . .
Ask any of the approximately 150,000 people that came to the
>>Lowell
folk festival this year.
I was one of
those people, and I can attest to what Phil Chaput says. I
went there solely
to check out the Kerouac related events, but found myself
enjoying the
entire festival. The booths and the
crowds were composed of a
multitude of
ethnic groups, but they mingled unselfconsciously without the
suspicious
sidelong glances I'm so used to here in Hartford. My wife and I
stayed all day
and into the evening, and we never heard a harsh word (nor,
strangely, a
crying child).
I think it's a
clean and interesting town with a diverse population, and I
wouldn't mind
living there myself.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:17:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tribe
Folks --
I received MANY
requests for my copies of Tribe magazine.
Many more than I
can fill,
unfortunately. I've sent responses to
the earliest responders --
you know who you
are.
Others: if any of
these chosen few do not claim their magazines, I'll let you
know. I'm sorry that I didn't have more on hand.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:04:03 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Arnold/CAM/Lotus
<Andrew_Arnold/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@CRD.LOTUS.COM>
Subject: On the Road Movie
>Last I heard
Coppola's son was going to
>direct
it. I know Francis Ford C is still
involved in the concept
>one way or
another. I'm basically hoping the idea
stays in
>purgatory
where it probably belongs.
I've always
thought that the only way to do On The Road as a movie
would be through
animation. This would allow for the
fluidity and freeform,
expressionist
style that made the book so important.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:05:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Arnold/CAM/Lotus
<Andrew_Arnold/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@CRD.LOTUS.COM>
Subject: Lowell Is Cool
Having visited
Lowell a number of times for both
Kerouac festivals
and the Folk festivals, I can confidently
say that Lowell
is the coolest city in Mass.
Between its
ethnic mix, and its preservation of the milltown
feel, with
appropriate renovation and little gentrification, it makes
for a delightful
daytrip.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:36:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Tribe mag address
For all who are
curious:
Tribe mega-zine
is published monthly by big mouth media inc.
2042 magazine
street
new orleans La
70130
504.524.5200
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:50:21 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Steve_Lescure@MAIL.AMSINC.COM
Subject: Re: How to subscribe
Comments: To:
beat-l%cunyvm.BITNET@uunet.uu.net
can someone give me the address for
subscribing to this list.
Thanks.
steve_lescure@mail.amsinc.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:27:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rinaldo RASA <rasa@GPNET.IT>
Subject: {IN THE LIST}
Comments: To:
steve_lescure@mail.amsinc.com
Comments: cc:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@ICINECA.CINECA.IT
Steve,
if this message come to my email
you are already in the list.
...like tears in the rain.
------------------------------------------------
Rinaldo RASA,
v.Morlaiter 2, 30173 Venice, Italy
---
voice:(041)5317058, email: rasa@gpnet.it ---
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:22:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: MARILYN SOUDERS
<NEWI05B@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Bath
bill,
i received back a
notice that my response to you was distributed on
the Beat-L
bb. i noticed this not when i replied to
what i thought
was your private
queue so i was quite free in opining about the
prissy drinking
habits of mr. wang vis a vis yours and mclean's.
sorry if people
from the betty ford center spirit you away.
btw, now peter's
wife is on the job market so if you see any cuny
listings, forward
them to me, OK?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:49:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: FW: Insecurity kills!
At 05:38 PM
8/14/96 U, you wrote:
>(Third try
sending. Sorry for any dupes...er,
tripes?)
>
>The actual
address of The Atlantic Monthly article is
><http://www.theatlantic.com/atlantic/issues/96aug/jackk/jackk.htm>
-- and very
>good it is,
too. Thanks Jim.
>
>So Phil, are
the "Projects" in Watertown (where I was born in '51 and lived
>'til '62)
yuppie heaven now too? (Who am I to
talk, sitting five miles from
>Los Gatos?!)
>
>I'm afraid
Watertown and the projects are what Jack's father once called
Lowell-----Stinktown
USA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:59:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Buddhism
An interesting
question. Jack had been called the master when it came to
Buddhism back in
the Dharma Beat days and hanging with Snyder, Whalen,
Ginsberg and all.
My question is, who learned what from who? Was Jack into
Buddhism before
those guys or vica versa? Who was into it the most and who
taught who the
most? I know Jack started reading about the Buddha early by
getting into Thoureau
and Emerson but I wonder when he got real serious and
if Scripture of
the Golden Eternity was the closest he ever came to nirvana.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 07:07:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rinaldo RASA <rasa@GPNET.IT>
Subject: {to anybody}
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@ICINECA.CINECA.IT
Comments: cc:
Philzi@TIAC.NET
Vapid in the anything?
Am I in the list?
Does anybody have received
this message?
Please give some feedback,
also privately.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
.\.
...like tears in the rain
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
rasa@gpnet.it
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
thanks a lot
friends
\\\\\\\\
------------------------------------------------
Rinaldo RASA,
v.Morlaiter 2, 30173 Venice, Italy
---
voice:(041)5317058 email: rasa@gpnet.it
---
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:38:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Rodgers
<Rodgers@TRACOR-A4.CCMGATE.TRACOR.COM>
Subject: Buddhism
Phil,
My vote would be for Gary Snyder. I'm sure his
farmerintellectualmysticism intrigued
Jack, and as we all know, Jack
was quick to morph into those who
intrigued him.
I can't agree that Jack was a master at
Buddhism. I'm sure that he
immersed himself in the philosophy, but
like so many, it was just an R
and R spot after the drinks started to
taste bad.
I know that Phil Whalen is a Zen master,
but unfortunately I don't
know much about him. I'll resort to my Portable Beat Reader for a
quick one.
I think Jack always had the guiltconflict
of Catholicism and Buddhism
going on in his head, and at the end of
his life regretted his
straying from Catholicism.
But certainly, it was Jack introduced us
to the Dharma Beat, and a lot
of us have been dancing to it since.
Satori:
I think I just realized why I love the guy.
Thanks Jack.
Ron Rodgers
Rodgers@tracor-a4.ccmgate.tracor.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:14:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Bath
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:22:59 -0500
from
<NEWI05B@PRODIGY.COM>
Frankly, I doubt
that anyone will even notice your slanderous character assasin
ation of myself
and that paragon of sobriety, Michael Brian McLean. And certai
nly no one can
give a hoot about the goings on at Pratt.
Everyone has hit the
wrong button
sometime. But you always have to be on
the alert when you reply t
o a message. I once repliedrather intemperately to a memo
of Barbra's that had
been forwarded to me and instead of the reply
going to the forwarder it went t
o her. Oops!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:27:21 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Goofs!
A thousand
apologies to everyone on the list. I was
chastising my
friend Marilyfor
not paying attention to where her e-mail was going,
when I
inadvertently hitthe wrong button myself!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:33:06 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: How to subscribe
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:50:21 EST from
<Steve_Lescure@MAIL.AMSINC.COM>
Easy to sign
on. Simply send an e-mail message to
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu. L
eave the subject
line blank. In the body of your mail,
type subscribe Beat-L
first name last
name.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:38:43 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Hartley
<chris.hartley@GS.COM>
Subject: Re: Buddhism
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
"Buddhism" (Aug 15, 11:59pm)
yass, gs
certainly got jack into the whole buddhism, zen gig. at gary's urging
the Scripture of
the Golden Eternity was cranked out. the
time they spent
together on
firewatch in the northwest solidified jack's being drawn into the
buddhist
concept...then. i think jack was drawn
to gary's peace and humility.
as ron pointed out, it was merely a chapter in
jack's life, for he totally
withdrew from
buddhism and resorted to his catholocism later in life. that
guilt riddled
catholic bringing up is a tough bug to get around and behind, i
guess. great read for the topic is Big Sky Mind,
Buddhism and the Beat
Generation.
--
--
_________________________________________________________________
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ Chris Hartley
_/ _/
_/ _/_/_/_/ Emerging Debt Markets
_/_/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/
_/ _/
_/ _/ _/ voice: (212)-902-8110
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ email: hartlc@fi.gs.com
_________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:33:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Stephen Davis <jd4716@NANDO.NET>
Subject: Re: Buddhism
In-Reply-To:
<2146C590.1669@tracor-a4.ccmgate.tracor.com>
> I can't agree that Jack was a master at
Buddhism. I'm sure that he
> immersed himself in the philosophy, but
like so many, it was just an R
> and R spot after the drinks started to
taste bad.
I've got to both
agree and disagree with you here. While
I've never seen
Jack as master
Buddihist either, I do think that he did an incredible job
of creating his
own religion; sort of a merger between budhism and
catholicism. I must say that I really think Jack saw his
spiritual quest
as more than
"R&R", to me his never ending question for "the truth"
is
what makes him so
endering. For any of you that have not
read it, i
would *STRONGLY*
encourage you to read _Desolation Angels_.
Its my
favorite of all
of Jack's books and it seems to center around the Beat
attitudes towards
spirituality.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:39:47 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Buddhism
I think that some
accuracy is in order here. Gary Snyder
did not get
Kerouac
interested in Buddhism.
Kerouac became
interested in Buddhism in '53 or '54 or so.
His instigation
was the Cassady's
interest in Edgar Cayce. These sort of
things happen in
life. When a good friend of mine became a born
again Christian I was
inspired to match
his enthusiam with a furhter mor serious study of Zen
buddhism and we
traded many letters. I think Kerouac's
initial interest
began as a reaction
to the Cayce influence on his best friends, where he
didn't buy into
cayce lock stock and barrel like Carolyn and Neal, but he
did open up to
the "eastern" concepts being bandied about and took to doing
his own
study. I think he initially may have
read various books on the
subject at the
San Jose library when he was living in Los Gatos with the
Cassadys. I also remember hearing that he read french
books about Buddhism
that he was able
to find. The Buddhist Bible by Goddard
is also mentioned
as a source book
he used.
And Ginsberg has
said that at first he didn't care much about Jack's new
obsession or
field of study. Ginsberg didn't embrace
too much until the
Berkeley SF '55
scene that is written about in the Dharma Bums.
Kerouac's notes
on Buddhism that he began to keep were begun I think before
he met Snyder and
the others, but it is true that meeting Snyder and a bunch
of others that
were into Buddhism inspired his works like Scripture of the
Golden eternity
and were written then.
So Kerouac got
into Buddhsim before he met Snyder, Whalen and others. If
you remember one
anecdote, shortly after Kerouac met the Berkely group, at
Kenneth rexroth's
house Kerouac talked about Buddhism and Rexroth put him
down saying
everyone in SF was all ready a Buddhist.
Kerouac's initial
inspiration to study Buddhism as a reaction to the
Cassady's more
new fangled new-agey Cayce reflects Kerouacs basic
conservatism. He went to the source. He never considered himself a Zen
Buddhist even but
a traditional Buddhist. In terms of
catholicism and
Buddhism, I see
so many ritualisitic similarities between traditional
catholicism and
traditional buddhsim it is amazing. I
wrote something about
this months ago
(maybe more) to this group using my friend's Catholic
wedding and
Mother-in-laws traditional Buddhism.
If anyone has
more accurate time frames or details on this subject please
share them.
To all you
Buddhists out there, happy Ghost month.
Hope you burned your money.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:54:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Buddhism ...and Zen Catholicism!?
>Kerouac....
never considered himself a Zen
>Buddhist even
but a traditional Buddhist. In terms of
catholicism and
>Buddhism, I
see so many ritualisitic similarities between traditional
>catholicism
and traditional buddhsim it is amazing.
>.......If
anyone has more accurate time frames or details on this subject
please
>share them.
As a recent
subscriber I've been watching and reading/listening.....and
enjoying.
I was struck by this exchange and by
something in the Atlantic
Monthly article
about Kerouac that described him as a prep school
kid...which prep
school?
The one I went to was a Benedictine
Monastery school in Rhode
Island, then
Portsmouth Priory and now Portsmouth Abbey. With the
Benedictine
influence there was already a similarity to things Buddhist; the
similarity was
strengthened and emphasized by the fact that our Prior, Dom
Aelred Graham,
O.S.B. who hailed from Ampleforth in England was very much
interested
in Zen Bhuddism / Catholicism.
He wrote several books on the topic,
now undoubtedly out-of-print.
Some friends of
the school funded the construction of a beautiful little Zen
garden just
outside of his office in a corner formed by the Monastery
building and our
new chapel which was filled with 12th century stained glass
and other
beautiful things Catholic. The garden
was complete with a raked
sand pool....
very contemplative to sit there and hear the Gregorian chant
coming quietly
through the thick fieldstone walls of the chapel.
I can see how Jack would have tried to
synthesize something
influenced by the
two faiths. ...but which prep school did he go to?
Another question of interest...can
someone point me to anything - by
Kerouac or y
others that discusses in any detail his specific bebop
interests beside
the Slim Gaillard description in "On the Road". And
another...I have
a recording of Jack's titled "Cockroach". Is that on the
recent CD of his
work? ...anyone recognize it?
Best fun I've had in a while
participating in this ...hope to be
more active in
the future. How many of us are there?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"Nolo
urinare contra ventum..." [old roman legion saying]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:49:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Buddhism ...and Zen Catholicism!?
> I can see how Jack would have tried to
synthesize something
>influenced by
the two faiths. ...but which prep school did he go to?
>
He went to Horace
Mann in New York. His attendence was
part of his football
scholarship to
Columbia. I don't know how it worked--ie
if it was his first
year of college
or his last year of High School.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:18:27 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Buddhism
>at gary's
urging
>the Scripture
of the Golden Eternity was cranked out.
the time they spent
>together on
firewatch in the northwest solidified jack's being drawn into the
>buddhist
concept
I don't think
they spent time together on firewatch. Gary had done so
previously and
when Kerouac was up there Snyder was already in Japan.
Best,
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 15:48:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: David Schmid
<SCHMID@UBVMS.BITNET>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: BURROUGHS
Dear all:
The following
excerpt comes from Daniel Odier's 'The Job: Interviews With
William S.
Burroughs":
Q: What is your
relation to the Beat movement, with which you associate
yourself?...
A: I don't
associate myself with it at all, and never have, either with
their objectives
or their literary style. I have some close personal friends
among the Beat
movement: Jack Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg and Gregory Corso
are all close
personal friends of many years standing, but were not doing at
all the same
thing, either in writing or in outlook. You couldn't really find
four writers more
different, more distinctive. It's simply a matter of juxta-
position rather
than any actual association of literary styles or over all
objectives.'
I am writing a
paper based around this exchange for the upcoming Beat
Symposium in
Lowell, and I am interested in hearing the opinions of members
of the list on
the following questions: Should Burroughs be considered a
Beat writer? If
so, in what sense and why? If not, why not?
Best,
David Schmid
SUNY Buffalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 16:11:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs--
Hey David--
If Uncle Bill
claims he aint beat, then my feeling is he aint beat--
And actually his
thoughts abt "juxtapostion" & "association" make
perfect
sense. The rest
of it that we seem all too eager to buy into is publishers'
marketing schemes
& cultural manipulation.
Do doubt a paper debating
Bill's statement would be more "entertaining"
--but less
authentically grounded in who he is & how he sees & chooses to
define himself.
Then again, be
aware of the earlier thread here regarding the dingbat
quality of The
Job's English translation....
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 16:39:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs--
In-Reply-To:
<199608172011.QAA22007@wanda.phl.pond.com>
On Sat, 17 Aug
1996, Lowe wrote:
> Then again,
be aware of the earlier thread here regarding the dingbat
> quality of
The Job's English translation....
I assume you're
referring to one of my earlier postings (6/28), in which I
compared one of
WSB's answers in The Job with his answer to the same
question in the
original French edition--which were significantly
different.
But as far as I
can tell, the english edition was not meant to be simply
a translation of
the french, but a revision of it, so differences between
the two are not
the result of a faulty translation. And at any rate,
there shouldn't
be any question of translation into english anyway,
since, again as
far as I can tell, the interviews must have originally
been conducted in
english, and then translated to french.
The passage here
at issue (WSB's denial that he is a Beat)
is identical in
both editions.
***
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
"August
finally came in with a blast that
shook my house
and augured little
augusticity."
***
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 19:26:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: BURROUGHS
At 03:48 PM
8/17/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear all:
>The following
excerpt comes from Daniel Odier's 'The Job: Interviews With
>William S.
Burroughs":
>Q: What is
your relation to the Beat movement, with which you associate
>yourself?...
>A: I don't
associate myself with it at all, and never have, either with
>their
objectives or their literary style. I have some close personal friends
>among the
Beat movement: Jack Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg and Gregory Corso
>are all close
personal friends of many years standing, but were not doing at
>all the same
thing, either in writing or in outlook. You couldn't really find
>four writers
more different, more distinctive. It's simply a matter of juxta-
>position
rather than any actual association of literary styles or over all
>objectives.'
>
>I am writing
a paper based around this exchange for the upcoming Beat
>Symposium in
Lowell, and I am interested in hearing the opinions of members
>of the list
on the following questions: Should Burroughs be considered a
>Beat writer?
If so, in what sense and why? If not, why not?
>
>Best,
>David Schmid
>SUNY Buffalo
>
>I think he is
guilty by association. I don't think the beats have an actual
objective or are
they closely similar in style just the opposite I think
their
individuality gives them their uniqueness and that's part of being
beat. This is in
part what Burroughs is saying. Corso is very much as
distinctively
different to Kerouac as Burroughs is to Kerouac or for that
matter to
Ginsberg but never less he is one of the original beats as is
Burroughs as is
Ginsberg. I mean beat is only a label. Look forward to
seeing you at the
festivl.
Sometimes you feel
like a beat sometimes you don't.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:10:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: David Schmid
<SCHMID@UBVMS.BITNET>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Burroughs again
Thanks to those
who have responded thus far to my earlier query -- I'll
tell you what I
think once I have all my notes sorted out. In the meantime,
I have another,
much smaller, but related query: can anyone tell me the source
for the quote
from Burroughs on page xxxi of Ann Charters' Introduction to
the Portable Beat
Reader? Thanks
David
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 08:55:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "JAY S. GERTZ"
<JGERTZ@UNCA.EDU>
Organization:
University of North Carolina at Asheville
Subject: Re: Beat Zen
Morning,
Regarding the current discussion on
Beats and Zen. Two sources for more
info.: Alan Watts
article on Beat Zen Square Zen in his book This is it. (Also
in other
anthologies.) And a book that came out last year entitled Big sky
mind: Buddhism
and the Beat Generation by Carole Tonkinson, Riverhead Books.
Jay
S. Gertz
Ramsey Library UNCA
(jgertz@unca.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:19:44 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "B. Sorensen"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Re: Buddhism
On Fri, 16 Aug
1996 11:39:47 -0700,
Timothy K.
Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
wrote:
>I think that
some accuracy is in order here. Gary
Snyder did not get
>Kerouac
interested in Buddhism.
>
>Kerouac
became interested in Buddhism in '53 or '54 or so.
>
>If anyone has
more accurate time frames or details on this subject please
>share them.
>
In the
"Selected Letters" of Kerouac the references to Buddhism start on p.
409. From
Charters' intro to a letter of "early May 1954":
Thinking that
Ginsberg had arrived from Mexico to stay with the Cassadys,
Kerouac wrote a
long letter from his mother's apartment to relay the gossip
about their
mutual friends on the East Coast and to tell Allen about his
discovery of
Buddhism. Jack offered to send Allen "a 100-page account of
Buddhism" he
had typed up from his reading notes in the San Jose Public
Library entitled
"Some of the Dharma", but he cautioned Ginsberg that "it's
the only copy, we
must take special care with it, right?"
>From another
intro we know that "Kerouac arrived in San Jose in time for
Neal's
twenty-eight birthday on February 8, 1954" (Selected Letters, p.
407), so Jack
must have spent those three months reading and annotating
works like
Goddard's "The Buddhist Bible" ("By far the best book because it
contains the
Surangama Sutra and the Lankavatra Scripture, not to mention
the 11-page
Diamond Sutra which is the last word" - Jack K., Selected
Letters, p. 415).
There are also
references to Buddhism in letters from this period to
Carolyn Cassady,
Malcolm Cowley, Robert Lax, Sterling Lord etc.
Regards,
bs
Department of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:03:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher R. Smith"
<Christopher_R._Smith@VOYAGER.UMERES.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Kerouac and Buddhism
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@MAINE.maine.edu
I am suprized and delighted to read all
the posts concerning
Kerouac and
Buddhism. I am currently finishing up a
masters thesis
here at the
University of Maine about the Kerouac's interest in Eastern
philosophy and
how that influenced his poetry. From
what I have
researched, the
person named gallagher from USC has most of the correct
information. Kerouac DID NOT get into Buddhism by anyone's
direct
influence. He actually stumbled onto Ashvaghosha's Life
of the Buddha
in the San Jose
library when he was looking for information about
Hinduism to help
him fuel his argument with Cassady against the ideas
of Edgar Casey. This was at the very end of 1953. I think the real
beginning of
Kerouac's interest in Eastern philosophy came with his
identification
with the Buddha as a religious figure.
Like he did with
so many other
people in his life, Kerouac tried to follow the story of
the Buddha like a
boy follows an admired older brother.
I am saying "Eastern
philsophy" in general here instead of just
Buddhism though
because Kerouac's interests were not at all confined to
Buddhism. He was all over the map, really, mostly
focusing on Mahayana
Buddhist texts
like the Diamond Sutra and the Suragama Sutra.
I have
to disagree with
all of the people, also, who think Kerouac abandoned
Eastern thinking
after 1960 or so. This is a popular
belief, mostly
based on the
cross-vision ending of Big Sur. Kerouac
did turn back to
a more Catholic
vocabulary toward the end. He painted
crosses and
pictures of the
pope, for heaven's sake. However, he
never stopped
talking about the
Buddha and about life being emptiness.
Anyone who
doubts this can
read his last interview in Paris review, 1968.
He
retells the story
of the Buddha during the interview, placing himself
and Ginsberg into
the story. Yes, Eastern thinking was
very much on
his mind all the
way up to the end.
I contend that Eastern philsophy was a
pre-existing belief
system that
strikingly paralleled the direction of poetics during the
1950s. It was, and is, a foreign
"postmodern" system of thinking that
was available to
Kerouac when no other local postmodern system was
around. As Kerouac--and all the Beats and San
Francisco poets--were
early promotors
of what now some people call postmodern poetics.
De-centered,
process-oriented, highly physical work.
Be on the lookout for a new book coming
out by Kerouac (yes, BY
JACK KEROUAC)
called Some of The Dharma. It is
essentially the notes
he took on
Eastern philosophy for about 10 years--from 1953 up until
the 60s some
time. It should be out, according to
Penguin in early
spring 1997. As far as I know, it is the last major
writing left to be
published by
Kerouac. It should reveal quite a lot
about his thinking
on this subject.
If anyone has more information,
especially little known
information that
cannot be found in the biographies, please let me know
personally or
through these posts.
Christopher R.
Smith
University of
Maine
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 20:26:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Toni Rachiele
<Toni_Rachiele@PRENHALL.COM>
Subject: J. D. Salinger
Is Salinger ever
considered somewhat of a Beat writer? (I am in
publishing, not
in the academic world, so I don't know all
there is to know
about how writers are classified.) All the
dialogue about
Buddhism reminds me of
J.D., though, and
*Catcher* is a little bit Beat, at least. I never
thought of him
this way until subscribing to this
list. He was
certainly influenced by the classic Beat writers, even
if he's not
officially one of the group.
What do the
experts say?
Toni
Rachiele
<toni_rachiele@prenhall.com>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:10:00 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Buddhism
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@INTERBIT.CREN.NET
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Mon, 19 Aug 1996
19:03:31 EDT
Chris -- applauds
on your being so near completion of your MA. I do not
know much of the
biography behind Kerouac's indoctrination with Eastern
religions, but I
found it surprising that you did not mention gary
Snyder, Phl
Whalen, Kenneth Rexroth, et al., in your post. These cats
had _it_ (in the
best of west coast fashions) long before the crazed
Canuck made his
way out to San Francisco... but his interest, as you
mentioned, was
piqued once he hit the coast. His disenchantment with
Cayce may have
had something to do with it, but Neal had just gotten out
of prison, and
Jack's guilty conscience wouldn't have allowed him much
spirit of attack
-- even of religious principle. I've always figured
that it was his
exposure to the mystics of Gary, Phil, McGorikle,
Rexroth and the
like that started turning his head on.
Cheers,
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:29:29 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: J. D. Salinger
Toni Rachiele
writes:
> Is Salinger
ever considered somewhat of a Beat writer? (I am in
> publishing,
not in the academic world, so I don't know all
> there is to
know about how writers are classified.) All the
> dialogue
about Buddhism reminds me of
> J.D.,
though, and *Catcher* is a little bit Beat, at least. I never
> thought of
him this way until subscribing to this
> list. He was
certainly influenced by the classic Beat writers, even
> if he's not
officially one of the group.
i've recently
read a book on Salinger and his works by Warren French (Salinger
Revisited.. i
believe is its title) and certainly created the impression that
Salinger hated
the Beats and their lifestyle and even cites an example of
Salinger's
disgust with Kerouac's DHARMA BUMS. from what i gather, Salinger's
rather clean
living, upper middle class New York lifestyle did not make him very
fond of the
rather bohemian atmosphere of Kerouac and the gang...
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:23:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew Howald
<and_how@IDIOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Buddhism
e
q
x
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:06:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Christopher R. Smith"
<Christopher_R._Smith@VOYAGER.UMERES.MAINE.EDU>
Organization:
University of Maine
Subject: Re: J. D. Salinger
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.bitnet@MAINE.maine.edu
Toni-
As a response to
your questions about Salinger, my marginally academic
opinion would be
that he is not at all considered a Beat writer, but I
certainly see
what you mean about him having a few Beat-like qualities.
Salinger is considered a one of the major
post-war Jewish (I know, it
sounds very
un-PC) authors, along with Saul Bellow, Malamud, and
others. (Forgive me if I spelled either of those
names wrong). I am a
big fan of
Salinger's and have been for a long time.
If you havn't
already read
Seymour, An Introduction, take a look at the first 5 or 10
pages. In there he makes a pretty biting comment on
Beat writers in
general that may
begin to answer your question about how he fits with
them. He was very much part, at least in the
beginning, of the New
York (New Yorker)
establishment, both politically and artistically. He
was not
"experimental" in the ways the Beats were. The most
interesting thing
about Salinger, aside from the obvious beauty of his
minutely crafted
prose, is his undercurrent of Eastern philosophical
ideas throughout
his small body of work. This was
something he
definitely had in
common with the Beats.
Christopher
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:05:43 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Torrey Hillinger
<teej@SOVER.NET>
Subject: unsubscribe
Sign off BEAT-L
thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:21:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Is Burroughs a Beat?
I'm just wondering what exactly is the point
of asking that question? It
seems like a
pointless semantic exercise to me. Burroughs also talks
about Korzybski
and General Semantics in _The Job_, and includes a
passage about the
power of meaningless words. What happens when you call
someone a
fascist? It seems to me that determining whether Burroughs is
a beat or not
relies entirely upon your definition of what a beat writer is.
I won't proffer a definition, but I think
Burroughs' place in the
literary
tradition of the second half of the 20th century was fixed by
Jennie Skerl in
_William S. Burroughs_, (G.K. Hall &
Company, 1985) as an
avant-garde
experimentalist writer who in his time is\was only
appreciated by an
intellectual elite.
Art critics spend half their time creating
and classifying 'schools';
which is not
quite as pervasive and consuming a practice
with literary
scholars, but it happens nonetheless. Saying "Burroughs is
a beat writer,"
or "Burroughs is not a beat writer" seems to me to
amount to pretty
much the same thing - nothing. When the goal of enquiry is
immaterial, why
ask? If you simply want to discuss the relation
Burroughs has to
the other writers and writing that people commonly label
Beat, then that
seems like it could be fruitful. To come to the end of
the paper and
declare , "Burroughs is a beat writer" would seem rather
spurious. I guess
this delves into some basic hermeneutics but hey, why
not? (I'm sure
Mr. Hasbrouck with his experience on the Bloom list might
take this one up
;-)
Don't mean to be
offensive, and I hope noone takes offence, but is it not
more useful to
ask, "How do Bukowski's work and Kerouac's compare as
regards
______?" or "How does Salinger's Eastern leanings contrast with
Snyder's buddhism
(or Kerouac or Ginsberg)?" than it is to ask
"Is
Dylan\Salinger\Bukowski\Waldman Beat?"
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:24:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: David Schmid
<SCHMID@UBVMS.BITNET>
Organization:
University at Buffalo
Subject: Burroughs/Beat
I'd like to
respond to Neil Hennessy's recent post. I certainly agree with
you, Neil, that
there are many more useful questions to ask about Burroughs
than 'is he a
Beat writer?' However, when the vast majority of literature
about the Beat
movement includes Burroughs as part of that movement (as if
such an inclusion
is completely unproblematic) then I think you have to
admit that the
question 'in what sense can Burroughs be considered a Beat
writer or
not?" becomes rather more germane. Indeed, I find it ironic that
there is far more
discussion amongst 'Beat' writers themselves about what
exactly a 'Beat'
writer is than there is on this list. I think it would be
very useful to
have a discussion about what exactly characterizes 'Beat'
literature, and
whether there is even such a beast. In the case of Burroughs,
my feeling is
that his identification as a Beat writer tends to obscure much
of what is most
powerful and innovative about his work, and represents another
attempt to
'pigeonhole' Burroughs (a process Burroughs himself has described
in his essay 'My
Purpose is to Write for the Space Age.') I wonder to what
extent we are all
participating in such pigeonholing
simply by maintaining
this list.
Let the sparks fly!
David Schmid
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:32:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "M.Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Buddhism
On Fri, 16 Aug
1996 13:33:11 -0400
Stephen Davis
<jd4716@NANDO.NET> wrote:
Subject: Re: Buddhism
> For any of
you that have not read it, i
>would
*STRONGLY* encourage you to read _Desolation Angels_. Its my
>favorite of
all of Jack's books and it seems to center around the Beat
>attitudes
towards spirituality.
To add to this
suggestion, I would encourage everyone to read
Gary Snyder's
*Earth House Hold*. The beginning of the
book
deals with the
summers of '52 and '53, when G.S., J.K., and P.W.
were on firewatch
up in the Pacific N.W., as well as various spiritual
shtuff.
"9 August
Sourdough: Jack,
do you know if a fly is an electrical conductor? (over)
Desolation: A
fly? Are you still trying to electrocute
flies? (over)
Sourdough:
Yeah I can make em twitch a little. I got five number
six batteries on
it (over)
Desolation: I
don't know, Schubert, keep trying, Desolation clear."
>From *Earth
House Hold* by Gary Snyder (p.7), New Directions Publishing
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:41:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "L.Kelly"
<lpk@KDSI.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs/Beat
In-Reply-To:
<01I8IHAFYT228Y0PZK@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Tue, 20 Aug
1996, David Schmid wrote:
[snip]
> in his essay
'My Purpose is to Write for the Space Age.') I wonder to what
> extent we
are all participating in such pigeonholing
simply by maintaining
> this list.
Perhaps this
reflects the notion that the beats were more a part of a
social movement
than a literary movement. Burroughs said
something just
like that, I
can't place it at the moment, but I think it was in The Job.
I hope I don't
step on too many toes, but I think that beat literature is
eclectic and
almost transparant: perhaps there is a
split of sorts
between the
social and literary aspects of the beats, and if so,
perhaps the
social hemisphere is dominant.
Burroughs appears
to agree with this. But Burroughs is
quite
idiosyncratic and confuses the hell out of casual readers, so who's
to say.
:-)
---
Luke Kelly
lpk@kdsi.net
http://www.bigtable.com
http://www.kdsi.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:10:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Neal S> Meritz MD"
<Nsmeritzmd@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
SIGN OFF Beat L
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:41:18 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jens Moellenhoff
<JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Burroughs/Beat
>I'd like to
respond to Neil Hennessy's recent post. I certainly agree
>with
>you, Neil,
that there are many more useful questions to ask about
>Burroughs
>than 'is he a
Beat writer?' However, when the vast majority of
>literature
>about the
Beat movement includes Burroughs as part of that movement (as
>if
>such an
inclusion is completely unproblematic) then I think you have to
>admit that
the question 'in what sense can Burroughs be considered a
>Beat
>writer or
not?" becomes rather more germane. Indeed, I find it ironic
>that
>there is far
more discussion amongst 'Beat' writers themselves about
>what
>exactly a
'Beat' writer is than there is on this list. I think it would
>be
>very useful
to have a discussion about what exactly characterizes
>'Beat'
>literature,
and whether there is even such a beast. In the case of
>Burroughs,
>my feeling is
that his identification as a Beat writer tends to obscure
>much
>of what is
most powerful and innovative about his work, and represents
>another
>attempt to
'pigeonhole' Burroughs (a process Burroughs himself has
>described
>in his essay
'My Purpose is to Write for the Space Age.') I wonder to
>what
>extent we are
all participating in such pigeonholing
simply by
>maintaining
>this list.
Well spoken. I
think that Burroughs left the Beat circle by inventing
his cutup-method
and by writing non-fiction like NAKED SCIENTOLOGY and
ELECTRONIC
REVOLUTION,that I both want you to read. Junkie & Naked Lunch
are defenitely
beat books because they deal with "Beat themes" like
drugs,
homosexuality, crime, disgust for the modern us society. And in
my opinion, they
are more conventionally written as the cut up novels.
Brion Gysin was
the non-Beat influence Burroughs had.
Greetings, Jens
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:48:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William S Schofield
<wss@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
In-Reply-To:
<199606222259.WAA29198@pipe1.ny3.usa.pipeline.com> from
"Joseph
Pizzo" at Jun 22, 96
10:59:33 pm
pleasee un sub
scribe me im tired and bloo
woob
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:28:07 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris <UK00028@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: CFP: William Burroughs (9/15; NEMLA)
(fwd)
I don't think
I've seen this on the list. Apologies if
I'm wrong.
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Return-Path:
<cfp-owner@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU>
Received: from
UKCC (NJE origin SMTP@UKCC) by UKCC.UKY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a)
with BSMTP id 5891; Wed, 21 Aug 1996
19:31:51 -0400
Received: from
dept.english.upenn.edu by UKCC.uky.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3)
with TCP; Wed, 21 Aug 96 19:31:49 EDT
Received: (from
root@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id
WAA32644 for cfp-outgoing; Wed, 21
Aug 1996 22:52:53 GMT
Message-Id:
<199608212252.WAA32644@dept.english.upenn.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug
1996 16:48:28 -0400 (EDT)
From:
"Douglas Baldwin (GD 1996)" <douglas.baldwin@yale.edu>
To:
cfp@english.upenn.edu
Subject: CFP:
William Burroughs (9/15; NEMLA)
Sender:
owner-cfp@dept.english.upenn.edu
Precedence: bulk
CALL FOR PAPERS
ON WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS:
1997 NORTHEAST
MODERN LANGUAGE ASSOCIATION
APRIL 4-5
1997 PHILADELPHIA, PA
DEADLINE: Papers must be postmarked by 15 September.
Decisions will be made before 15
October.
Panelists must be members of NEMLA
before 1 November.
WILLIAM S.
BURROUGHS: CAREER RETROSPECTIVE:
This panel will potentially consider the
total opus of
William S. Burroughs,
covering the forty-year span from
_Junky_ (1953) to
_The Cat Inside_ (1992). The panel will
look at his work
in any of the various media of the literary
novel, science
fiction, new journalism, letters, diaries,
interviews,
films, screenplays, drawing, music, or acting.
The panel hopes to locate Burroughs's work
within such
larger
theoretical questions as genre, the "Beat Generation"
movement,
postmodernism, mixed media, politics, homosexuality,
addiction,
technology and society, and cultural iconography.
The panel might also consider Burroughs's
roots in early
twentieth-century
avant-garde fiction and his profound effect
both specifically
on later authors (from canonical
postmodernists to
the currently-vogue "transgressive fiction"
of the 1990s) and
on contemporary American culture generally.
Douglas G.
Baldwin
394 Manor Dr.
Nazareth, PA
18064
(610) 746-3684
dougbald@minerva.cis.yale.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:34:59 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs/Beat
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:24:00 -0500
from <SCHMID@UBVMS>
Ah c'mon
now! Lost Generation, Beat Generation,
Romantic
Movement(English),
Generation of 98 -- all of these are just convenient
ways of grouping
writers for study and discussion. In the
case of the
above examples,
the writers happened to be in the same place at the same
time. They knew each other and read each other's
work. There were some
similar concerns
and some great difference between them.
I'm much more
interested in
Ginsberg and Kerouac than in Burroughs, although I've read
all of Burroughs'
major work and the major biographical and
criticalstudies. My interest in the major writers led me to
other
writers in the
group whose work I greatly enjoyed including John Clellon
Holmes, Lawrence
Ferlinghetti, and Diane Di Prima.
Studying these
writers in a
group shouldn't and doesn't pigeonhole them for the most
part. On the contrary, it just lends an additional,
wider context for
study and
comparison. Let's not take all of these
labels too seriously.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:05:10 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: SCRUZA
HRA354 08/23/96 10:04:17 HW1SSW1
From: "HRA354@SCRUZA"
<SCRUZA.HRA354@HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>
Subject: Other voices, other rooms
Subject: Other
voices, other rooms
Every time I read
of the death of another icon, I think of what
is lost. Stories, for one item.
And so I began
thinking about a way to gather the stories, not the
few for
publication, but the many for posterity.
Nerdnosh is such
a way.
A cybercampfire
on the wires, Nerdnosh is a friendly site where
we swap tales,
tending more towards the anecdotal, the journal,
than the fable or
fictional. Since my own coming of age
was
during the
fifties, that's the era I am most interested in.
Anybody is welcome,
but I want to extend a special invitation
to anyone who has
a personal interaction with the era or its
artists. This doesn't conflict with the current
list; here I
might contribute
an appraisal of the many segments of "Visions
of Cody"; on
the Nosh I would more likely tell you about the
time Philip
Lamantia stopped by an apartment in North Beach where
Ann Murphy lived
and Carolyn Cassady lived to speak of poets and
other matters.
The Nerdnosh
stories are stockpiled in our Attic:
http://www.netins.net/showcase/nerdnosh
and you can be
part of it by sending the command
subscribe
nerdnosh
end
to
majordomo@story.nerdnosh.org
I'd love to see
you there.
Thank you,
Tim Bowden
mailto:tcbowden@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:45:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "ALAN C. REESE"
<S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Other voices, other rooms
Other voices,
more clutter.
Please stay
around your campfire and stop nosing around cluttering the
airwaves if you
ain't adding to the discourse.
We could all add
our own little ads for our own enterprises, but then it
wouldn't be
BEAT-L would it? It would be ME-L,or in NERDNOSH's case
TCBOWDEN-L.
Sorry to bitch
and moan, but the irrelevant self promotion seems a bit
arrogant.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:52:21 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott <scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: Jack Kerouac's Road: A Franco-American
Odyssey
This will be show
on the Canadian cable channel Bravo!
29 Aug 96
08:00PM Jack Kerouac's Road: A
Franco-American Odyssey
Duration:01:00
Documentary exploring the father of the
beatnik writers, author of the
classic novel, "On The Road".
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:05:26 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's Road: A
Franco-American Odyssey
Peter Scott
writes:
> This will be
show on the Canadian cable channel Bravo!
> 29 Aug 96
> 08:00PM Jack
Kerouac's Road: A Franco-American Odyssey
>
Duration:01:00
> Documentary
exploring the father of the beatnik writers, author of the
> classic
novel, "On The Road".
which is then
subsequently followed by HEART BEAT - the film adaptation of
Carolyn Cassady's
book about life with Neal Cassady and Jack Kerouac - played by
Nick Nolte and
John Heard respectively...
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:24:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>
Subject: Kerouac
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%cunyvm.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
I'm new to this
list. Is there any discussion going on right now about
Kerouac?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:25:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
>I'm new to
this list. Is there any discussion going on right now about
>Kerouac?
Who? Who's that?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:41:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100ae45195da9e1@[128.125.222.92]>
On Sat, 24 Aug
1996, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> >I'm new
to this list. Is there any discussion going on right now about
> >Kerouac?
>
>
> Who? Who's that?
>
it's me. the new
guy. can you please answer my question?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:55:48 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Allen Ginsburg..Australia
The ABC has got a
show about Allen Ginsburg tonight, it's on at midnight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Gray
Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
CSIRO Division of
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 19:08:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re Kerouac
Comments: To:
afn49457@afn.org
>>>I'm
new to this list. Is there any discussion going on right >>>now about
Kerouac?
>
>>
Who? Who's that?
>
>it's me. the
new guy. can you please answer my question?
You apparently
just missed an interesting exchange about Kerouac and Buddhism
(i.e. what
influenced his interest in it?). But stick around - It'll come up
again. As will a
wealth of topics Kerouacian and otherwise.
LJ
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 19:39:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ed Hertzog <exh112@PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Kerouac
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
>>>>I'm
new to this list. Is there any discussion going on right >>>now about
>Kerouac?
>>
>>>
Who? Who's that?
>>
>>it's me.
the new guy. can you please answer my question?
>
There doesn't
have to be a specific conversation going on -- you can
initiate whatever
you wish regarding Beat topics whenever. There usually are
few good threads
going on at once though.
ed
===========================
I do not advocate
the initiation of force or
violence to
accomplish any political, social, or
economic goal under any circumstance.
_______________________________
Ed Hertzog A= A
exh112@psu.edu
Without
Prejudice: UCC 1-207
______________________________
"Let us
consider for a moment the statement:
'There is no
objective reality.' Now, if we
consider that to
be a fact and ponder the
statement it
immediately disproves itself.
The statment
would have to be false because,
by definition, a
fact must be objective; hence...
________________________________
"Does the
government fear us? Or do we fear
the government? When the people
fear the
government, tyranny has found victory.
The federal government
is our servant,
not our master!"
- Thomas
Jefferson
_____________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:29:48 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@listserv.gmd.de>
Hi Guys,
i recently read
lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.
Thompson, who, i
think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,
took a whole
lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious
journalism. levi
asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on
literary kicks
and i wonder what you guys think !
Mit freundlichem
Gruss
Moritz Rossbach
eMail
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:42:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%cunyvm.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
To all of you on
the beat list, my appologies. Didn't mean to come off so
strong like that.
Sorry about that Tim.
To Antoine:
afn is the
Alachua Free net- the free internet provider in Alachua County,
Florida.
"I accept
lostness forever"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:25:07 CST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bob Jordan
<enjordan@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!
If Hunter isn't
beat, no one is. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is in many
ways an extreme
extension of On the Road. Better drugs and less inhibited
times for Hunter
and his lawyer. Regards, Bob Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:24:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SGI.3.91.960826142019.28460B-100000@stud.uni-sb.de>
On Mon, 26 Aug
1996, Moritz Rossbach wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> i recently
read lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.
> Thompson,
who, i think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,
> took a whole
lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious
> journalism.
levi asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on
> literary
kicks and i wonder what you guys think !
>
>
> Mit
freundlichem Gruss
> Moritz
Rossbach
>
> eMail
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
>
Moritz: Hunter is
from the New Journalism group. When the beats were out, he
was either in
high school (maybe) or in the service.
But Hunter is
nothing like any of the beat writers.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:41:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bob Whiteley
<ai763@FREENET.HAMILTON.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SGI.3.91.960826142019.28460B-100000@stud.uni-sb.de>
lthough Thompson may have come after the
Beats, he was heavily
influenced by
Jack Kerouac. In Robert Draper's
biography of Rolling
Stone Magazine
Thompson is quoted that "Kerouac
turned me on to the idea
that writing was
fun,"..."that you wrote about what you did."
All my best
B.Whiteley
On Mon, 26 Aug
1996, Moritz Rossbach wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> i recently read
lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.
> Thompson,
who, i think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,
> took a whole
lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious
> journalism.
levi asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on
> literary
kicks and i wonder what you guys think !
>
>
> Mit
freundlichem Gruss
> Moritz
Rossbach
>
> eMail
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:09:15 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: SCRUZA
HRA354 08/26/96 15:08:27 HW1SSW1
From: "HRA354@SCRUZA"
<SCRUZA.HRA354@HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>
Subject: Re: Other voices, other rooms
Subject: Re:
Other voices, other rooms
*** Forwarding
note from HRA354 --SCRUZA 08/26/96 15:02 ***
*** Reply to note
of 08/24/96 07:43
Subject: Re:
Other voices, other rooms
This Reese creep
hangs around these lists like something dead,
nursing nothing
but old grudges, presenting nothing but a bad
odor. Just a little mess on the carpet you have to
step over
from time to
time. There should be a periodic
disclaimer in
any list
afflicted by his pungent lack of class for all the
new users out
there.
I'm trying to
think of an equivalent in the Beat roster.
Bukowski
could be acerbic,
but he also had wit. Montgomery was
bitter and
grudging and
addled, but he had a lilt to his language.
Burroughs was
a much better
marksman. Nope, there's none like him,
thank the gods.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:19:14 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF
SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!
I think Hunter
stands alone from the Beats for some reason. I think he is with
them in spirit
but the crowd he moved with and the kind of writing he did makes
me seperate him
from the Beats. Though he is a great writer in my opinion, he
has a history of
being homophobic and a wife beater. I guess I idealize the
Beat writers but
in truth it was not a movement too kind to women and sometimes
homosexuals.
Gonzo is next generation. He loved "The Ginger Man" when he was
starting to
write.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 23:16:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: new book Biblio out
In this book
collectors guide (BIBLIO July-Aug.) the premiere issue there is
a great article
on collecting 'Beat" Poetry books. It list Olson, Levertov,
Duncan, Corso,
McLure, Ginsberg and others to collect but it's also a great
read on the
beats. If this first issue has an article like this I bet we
will see many
good (beat) authors featured in upcoming editions. Keep your
eye out for it I
bought mine at Barnes and Nobles in Nashua, N.H. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:37:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "M.Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Gonzo Journalism still Beat?!
On Mon, 26 Aug
1996 14:29:48 +0200
Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE> wrote:
Subject:
GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>i recently
read lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.
>Thompson,
who, i think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,
>took a whole
lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious
>journalism.
levi asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on
>literary
kicks and i wonder what you guys think !
Hmm, I have a
hard time swallowing this one. I think
there are some
major differences
between "the beats" and Hunter S.
I think that the
mention of drugs
and travelling are about the only things these have in
common. From "the beats" there stems a
sense of romance and intellect,
with Hunter S. it
seems that there is a little too much inane drug babble.
IMHO, Hunter S.
couldn't touch "the beats" with a ten-foot
j. {8^>
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 04:53:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: hunter s thompson
isn't neal
cassady mentioned in thompson's "hells angels?"
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:52:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Re: hunter s thompson
Joe wrote:
>
> isn't neal
cassady mentioned in thompson's "hells angels?"
>
> joe
Yes, but only in
passing, as I recall. (Correct me if I'm wrong,
somebody.)
John H.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:48:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: STRice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>
Subject: hunter and beats
As for the talk
on Hunter, he's part of New Journalism and is not a part =
of the beats.
Hunter mixes fiction with journalism. The beats =
(especially
Kerouac; see Desolation Angels, Visions of Cody) where =
romantics,
nostalgic for a lost past, interested in carrying on =
Whitman's vision.
Hunter is interested in tracking down the beast in =
America,
everything Nixon stood for.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:18:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Whiskey Weird Smith
<psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: hunter and beats
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <01BB9405.7EB72620@dialup57.afn.org>
On Tue, 27 Aug
1996, STRice wrote:
> As for the
talk on Hunter, he's part of New Journalism and is not a part
of the beats. Hunter mixes fiction with
journalism. The beats
(especially Kerouac; see Desolation Angels,
Visions of Cody) where
romantics, nostalgic for a lost past,
interested in carrying on
Whitman's vision. Hunter is interested in
tracking down the beast in
America, everything Nixon stood for.
>
If the NJ cadre
includes Tom Wolfe, forget it. Also, HST
does gonzo--gonzo
and nj approaches
and visions and methods are not the same. HST
has referred to
his debt to Faulkner's statements about truth in/of fiction.
Dr. Thompson is
incredibly romantic--and there is an American past and
history and
promise and sensibility he yearns for us to return to--and he
screams at the
top of his bleeding lungs and he flogs the beast because
it and its
minions (i.e. Nixon) have stolen hope and honor and truth and
poisoned our
collective soul and loped into the Amerikan night like
diseased bull
weasels.
Fear and Loathing
in Las Vegas is very Whitmanesque with a dash of
Genet, a pinch of
Howl, and the addled grin of Tom Paine. Romantic as it
gets.
give the Doc
money and prizes--don't let anything happen to him.
is he beat?
beaten down? beatific? yes and no, i guess. he's just a damn
fine writer--with
echoes of Fitzgerald and DeQuincy and sure, Kerouac,
and
Burroughs...and there is a huge bloodshot eye staring right out of the
middle of his
medulla.
best,
SS
Steve R. Smith
Graduate Teaching Assistant
Department of English
Portland State University
Box 751 Portland, OR 97207
503-725-3556
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:08:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: JK and Marty Glickman
You might be interested to know that Syracuse
University Press are
publishing this
month "The Fastest Kid On The Block: The Marty Glickman
Story". What
has this to do with Jack Kerouac? Maybe we should run a JK
trivia contest,
but I suspect everyone has enough E-Mail anyway.
Their opening
blurb for the book is a quote from OTR
"Man, have
you dug that mad Marty Glickman announcing basketball games -
up-to-midcourt-bounce-fake-set-shot,
swish, two points. Absolutely the
greatest
announcer I ever heard"
**************************************************************************
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv (http://www.usa4.com/chipub/)
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
***Publishing is
90% inspiration and the other half is just hard work
(with apologies
to Yogi Berra)***
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:48:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "W. Luther Jett"
<MagenDror@AOL.COM>
Subject: re hunter s thompson
>Joe wrote:
>>
>> isn't
neal cassady mentioned in thompson's "hells angels?"
>>
>> joe
>Yes, but only
in passing, as I recall. (Correct me if I'm wrong,
>somebody.)
that's my
recollection also - At the time, the Hell's Angels were taking part
in Kesey's Acid
Tests, and there is a description of one of those Acid Tests
in Thompson's
book. If Neal Casady is mentioned therein, it's peripheral, as
the behavior of
the Angels was Thompson's primary focus. Incidentally, this
book was the
earliest of HST's gonzo ouevre (published ca. 1965?), and as
such, is
considerably more mainstream in tone than the Fear and Loathing
series.
Luther Jett
John H.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:55:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Zeke <zeke@ZEKE.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video clip?]
Received: from
listserv.kent.edu [131.123.77.253] by Vir.com (8.7.1/v1.1) with
ESMTP
id RAA27241 for <zeke@ZEKE.COM>;
Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:32:15 -0400 (edt)
Received: from
listserv (131.123.77.253) by listserv.kent.edu (LSMTP for Windows
NT v1.0a) with SMTP id B06007E0 ; Tue, 27 Aug
1996 17:32:15 -0400
Received: from
LISTSERV.KENT.EDU by LISTSERV.KENT.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release
1.8b) with spool id 2428419 for
ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU; Tue, 27
Aug 1996 17:32:14 -0400
Received: from
spacelab.net by listserv.kent.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.0a)
with SMTP id A9BB2230 ; Tue, 27 Aug
1996 17:32:04 -0400
Received: from
LOCALNAME ([206.42.130.245]) by spacelab.net (post.office MTA
v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11397) with SMTP id
AAA550 for
<ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU>;
Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:33:11 -0400
X-Sender:
jsenft@spacelab.net
X-Mailer: Windows
Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Message-ID: <19960827213310.AAA550@LOCALNAME>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:33:11 -0400
Reply-To:
Academic Discussion of Popular Music <ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU>
Sender: Academic
Discussion of Popular Music <ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU>
From: Jennifer
Senft <jsenft@SPACELAB.NET>
Subject: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video clip?
To: Multiple
recipients of list ROCKLIST <ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU>
I realise that
when the debate hits this level, the academic banter tends to
take place
between the establishment of this list.
And I am new, but I have
something to say...
It is so clear to
me that MTV is not only art, but an art form.
It is a
genre with its
own iconography, its own standards, and its own rules --
extremely quick
cuts, moving hand-held camera, zooms, colors, and then --
the wardrobe,
make-up, hair-dye, tatoos, etc. This is
a style that has
become a cultural
phenomenon and ALSO invaded other media forms.
Commercials on
regular tv now use "MTV style," it is in commercial films,
and television
shows on non-cable television (Party of Five, etc.). It is a
form of art that
has taken off with a vengeance and defines a whole
generation. Don't we say, "the MTV
generation" much like we used to
say,
"the beat
generation"? Beat is an art form,
yes?
>To clarify:
my mind is fairly open on the subject, given that beggars
>can't be
choosers. But basically, MTV is a
commercial channel which plays
>music videos,
the purpose being to make money for MTV, its advertisers,
>the labels
who produce the music, and lastly, I suspect, the artists
>themselves.
Sounds like all
tv doesn't it? And I guess all art. Funny, the artist's
ultimate goal is
to make money doing his art. Yet if too
much money is
made, somehow is
it then not really art?
I'll shut up now
lest I get flamed in some huge way...
Jennifer
*********************************************
Jennifer Senft,
M.A.
jsenft@spacelab.net
Practice random
kindness and senseless acts of beauty...
**********************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:41:54 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JENS MOELLENHOFF <JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video
clip?]
> I realise
that when the debate hits this level, the academic banter tends to
> take place
between the establishment of this list.
And I am new, but I have
> something to
say...
>
> It is so
clear to me that MTV is not only art, but an art form. It is a
> genre with
its own iconography, its own standards, and its own rules --
> extremely
quick cuts, moving hand-held camera, zooms, colors, and then --
> the
wardrobe, make-up, hair-dye, tatoos, etc.
This is a style that has
> become a
cultural phenomenon and ALSO invaded other media forms.
> Commercials
on regular tv now use "MTV style," it is in commercial films,
> and
television shows on non-cable television (Party of Five, etc.). It is a
> form of art
that has taken off with a vengeance and defines a whole
>
generation. Don't we say, "the MTV
generation" much like we used to
say,
> "the
beat generation"? Beat is an art
form, yes?
>
>
> >To clarify:
my mind is fairly open on the subject, given that beggars
> >can't be
choosers. But basically, MTV is a
commercial channel which plays
> >music
videos, the purpose being to make money for MTV, its advertisers,
> >the
labels who produce the music, and lastly, I suspect, the artists
>
>themselves.
>
> Sounds like
all tv doesn't it? And I guess all
art. Funny, the artist's
> ultimate
goal is to make money doing his art. Yet
if too much money is
> made,
somehow is it then not really art?
>
> I'll shut up
now lest I get flamed in some huge way...
>
> Jennifer
>
>
*********************************************
> Jennifer
Senft, M.A.
>
jsenft@spacelab.net
>
> Practice
random kindness and senseless acts of beauty...
>
**********************************************
>
Having read a bit
of Douglas Coupland I think that the MTV generation
can also be
called the "Generation X".
Oh really ? :-)))
Jens Moellenhoff
jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
jmoellen@sun1.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de
http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/
(German)
*** Language is a
Virus from Outer Space - WSB ***
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:17:19 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: Reese like something dead
Hey leave this
Reese 'creep' alone, he's a fine guy. You should be
thankful that his
buddy Harry the Nose isn't on the list too. Hey Alan,
any chance of
getting Harry to join up?
Daniel
On Mon, 26 Aug
1996, HRA354@SCRUZA wrote:
> Subject: Re:
Other voices, other rooms
> ***
Forwarding note from HRA354
--SCRUZA 08/26/96 15:02 ***
> *** Reply to
note of 08/24/96 07:43
> Subject: Re:
Other voices, other rooms
> This Reese
creep hangs around these lists like something dead,
> nursing
nothing but old grudges, presenting nothing but a bad
> odor. Just a little mess on the carpet you have to
step over
> from time to
time. There should be a periodic
disclaimer in
> any list
afflicted by his pungent lack of class for all the
> new users
out there.
>
> I'm trying to
think of an equivalent in the Beat roster.
Bukowski
> could be
acerbic, but he also had wit. Montgomery
was bitter and
> grudging and
addled, but he had a lilt to his language.
Burroughs was
> a much
better marksman. Nope, there's none like
him, thank the gods.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:14:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<Robert.Peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video
clip?]
>It is so
clear to me that MTV is not only art, but an art form. It is a
>genre with
its own iconography, its own standards, and its own rules --
>extremely
quick cuts, moving hand-held camera, zooms, colors, and then --
>the wardrobe,
make-up, hair-dye, tatoos, etc. This is
a style that has
>become a
cultural phenomenon and ALSO invaded other media forms.
>Commercials
on regular tv now use "MTV style," it is in commercial films,
>and
television shows on non-cable television (Party of Five, etc.). It is a
>form of art
that has taken off with a vengeance and defines a whole
>generation. Don't we say, "the MTV
generation" much like we used to
say,
>"the
beat generation"? Beat is an art
form, yes?
MTV is commerce
imitating art. There is nothing new or
revolutionary about
the style or
techniques of rock video; film and other media were employing
these techniques
many decades ago. If you see "quick
cuts, moving
hand-held camera,
zooms" etc in a video and then see them in film, you
cannot assume
that the video came first. Cinema
Verite, using hand-held
cameras, predates
rock videos. A 1960s television show
called "I Spy" was
famous for its
zooms. Look at the Beatles films (which
were influenced by
earlier
films). MTV videos (with a few
exceptions) are just cheap
imitations of
what came before them.
When I hear
"MTV generation," it is usually in a context that denigrates
that generation
(unfairly, I think, since I believe "generation" is a false
construct to
simplify and commodify targets for ad agencies).
The "Beat
Generation" (again, I'm using this term only as a comparison,
since I don't
believe in it), was a group of people experimenting, pushing
at boundaries,
trying--with various levels of success--to create something
new. Critics may argue whether they were
successful in their attempts to
create art (I
happen to think they were successful), but their attempts
cannot be denied.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:00:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: NANCY GRACE
<NGrace@ACS.WOOSTER.EDU>
Subject: Re Hunter Thompson and NJ
Allen Ginsberg
has said that new journalism can be traced back to Kerouac's
fiction/autobiography. NJ actually can be traced back to Hemingway
and
Dickens, maybe
even further, but I find interesting Ginsberg's connection
of NJ and
Kerouac, the way in which both the Beat movement and the NJ
movement (taking
place simultaneously in some respects) worked to move
fiction and
nonfiction toward the personal and the real.
The blurring of
the genre
boundaries is a central characteristic of both movements.
Nancy Grace
The College of
Wooster
Wooster, Ohio
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:59:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
X-Mozilla-Status:
0001
Message-ID:
<3222631A.5485@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug
1996 19:53:14 -0700
From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla
2.01E-PBWE (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Who is
and who isn't
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I find myself
frustrated by this perpetual question of who is and who
isn't
"Beat." This list, as I
understand it, focuses on Kerouac,
Ginsberg, and
Burroughs who are certainly at the center of that cannon.
Like some others
I don't have much interest in Burroughs, but am
fascinated by
Gins, Jack and the West Coast Beats (Snyder, Welch,
Whalen, etc.).
Terms for
literary movements have destinct limitations.
Everything
blends together
after awhile. There is a trend in
anglo-american lit
from the
Romantics onward toward interest in the personal and spiritual
experience and as
early as Coleridge and DeQuincy that becomes
intertwined with
a fascination with drugs. Neither,
however, were
"beat."
Influence is
another misleading factor. Ginberg was
profoundly
influenced by
Whitman and WC Williams, to name two writers, but not a
part of the
movements we associate with either.
Beat, for me, is
composed of a group of writers who were mostly friends,
who came into
their own in the fifties. They had a
tremendous impact on
the culture that
followed them in the sixties--but that was a very
different
scene. There are figures that are
links--Cassidy most
prominately. But Kesey, who owes much to the beats, had a
different
vision. Hunter Thompson ditto. Can you imagine Jack in "Fear in
Loathing"? I don't think so. The hip thing was very different in tone
even though some
good old beats-Ginberg and Welch, for example, operated
as authority
figures there also. I think of
"hip" as "post beat".
Dylan, Kesey,
Thompson, Farina, Cohen and others are great figures and I
share more with
them in terms of life lived, but they are not "beats"
but their
descendents.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:19:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Iaquinta
<JIaqui2615@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Re Hunter Thompson and NJ
And how bout
Orwell, Homage to Catalonia is, among other things, extreme
journalism, and
for connection to later Beat writing Down and Out in Paris
and London,
regardless of what you may think about the social commentary, is
a sort of
desperate precursor to OTR.
John
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:36:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Iaquinta <JIaqui2615@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
Isn't one of the problems here that these
endless exchanges regarding
who is or isn't
beat are never really resolved?
Personally I think that if
you have
something relevant,and even remotely interesting to say regarding
Hunter Thompson,
Salinger, Bob Dylan, or anyone else for that matter, say it
and see if
there's any response. The last couple
days has seen a discussion
of MTV as a
possible art form on this list for Christs sake, so if anyone has
something
epiphanic to say about Charles Bukowski, I for one would be glad to
hear it. (By the
way durring the whole of the last discussion regarding C.B.
I don't recall
anyone mentioning his writing specifically--just whether or
not he ever got
drunk with Neil Cassady, which seems to be one of the primary
requirements for
being considered Beat--"Hey didn't Thompson mention Cassady
in Hells
Angels?"--Yeah he did...so what?)
So anyone know what Kerouac's favorite
color was?
Always Merry and
Bright,
John
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:46:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>
Subject: Jack's favorite color--
I just checked
with my dog (who is VERY beat since she claims she once bit
Lew Welch on the
leg--though later apologized) and she tells me she has it
on good authority
that Jack's favorite color was blue.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:36:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video
clip?] The Miller take
In a message
dated 96-08-28 11:25:31 EDT, Peltier write:
<< MTV is
commerce imitating art. There is nothing
new or revolutionary
about
the style or techniques of rock video; film
and other media were employing
these techniques many decades ago. If you see "quick cuts, moving
hand-held camera, zooms" etc in a video
and then see them in film, you
cannot assume that the video came first. Cinema Verite, using hand-held
cameras, predates rock videos. A 1960s television show called "I
Spy" was
famous for its zooms. Look at the Beatles films (which were influenced
by
earlier films). MTV videos (with a few exceptions) are just
cheap
imitations of what came before them.
When I hear "MTV generation," it is
usually in a context that denigrates
that generation (unfairly, I think, since I
believe "generation" is a false
construct to simplify and commodify targets
for ad agencies).
The "Beat Generation" (again, I'm
using this term only as a comparison,
since I don't believe in it), was a group of
people experimenting, pushing
at boundaries, trying--with various levels of
success--to create something
new.
Critics may argue whether they were successful in their attempts to
create art (I happen to think they were
successful), but their attempts
cannot be denied. >>
HEY HEY HEY
It sounds like a
case of competing elitisms here.
Was "The
Beat Generation" not commerce and art?
The GREAT lengths to which
AG went to get
Burroughs published.... was WSB not creating art, and AG
turning it into
commerce????
There are some
really creative videomakers out there -- the best of them are
using old stuff
and making something new out of it.
There is NO WAY they
could be making a
living by making full length feature films using some of
those looks and
techniques throughout. Of course, a lot
of what you see on
MTV is junk, but
then that is truthfully said of any medium.
All in all,
they're very similar on this "ART vs. COMMERCE" bullBULLbull.
They're all just trying to make their videos,
poetry, novels, stories, et
cetera (ART) [[[GAH I hate that term!]]] and get someone
to buy it
(COMMERCE)
The worst we can
do to Kerouac, Burroughs, Ginsberg is some sort of "They
weren't into
commerce" crap. That's utterly
untrue. Sure they were into
pushing
boundaries. But can't you see how pushing
boundaries is gimmickry?
Shock sells.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:59:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mick Parsons
<mkpars01@MOREHEAD-ST.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
In-Reply-To: <32250784.28ED@pacbell.net>
It seems to me
that people are expecting too much out of canonical
terminology. Terms like "Victorian",
"Romantic", "Modern," and the like
serve to limit
the field of study. The term "Beat", while not considered
canonical
(unfortunately) is the same way. There
are certain ideas that
tie those writers
called "Beat writers" together, and those ideas have
indeed been
passed on to those of us that came after. But it's important
to remember that
the writings are the important thing, not the label.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:28:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<960829093629_396752711@emout16.mail.aol.com>
I'm willing to
jump in on any discussion concerning Bukowski's writings,
especially Love
is a Dog From Hell, one of my favorite books of poetry.
As far as who is
or who isn't beat, I agree, it's irrelevant to some degree.
On the other
hand, you're not going to call Truman Capote, Ronald Reagan, or
Lex Luther beat,
right? So why call Hunter S. Thompson?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:40:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Chris Hartley
<chris.hartley@GS.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG> "Re:
[Fwd: Who is and who isn't]"
(Aug 29, 12:28pm)
READ BUKOWSKI'S
NOTES OF A DIRTY OLD MAN RECENTLY.
HYSTERICAL. LOVED THE
SHORTY ON MEETING
COWBOY NEAL AND TAKING A SPIN WITH HIM.
THIS IS THE ONLY
READ OF HIS I'VE
DONE. ANY SUGGESTIONS? THANKS MUCH.
--
--
_________________________________________________________________
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ Chris Hartley
_/ _/
_/ _/_/_/_/ Emerging Debt Markets
_/_/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/
_/ _/
_/ _/ _/ voice: (212)-902-8110
_/_/_/ _/_/ _/
_/ email: hartlc@fi.gs.com
_________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:17:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: DAVID W MYERS
<dwm3766@MAILER.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
Comments: cc:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@listserv.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9608291240.ZM11777@psl121.fi.gs.com>
I've enjoyed
Bukowski's novels WOMEN, POST OFFICE, and HAM ON RYE
immensely. For
short stories check out the collection published by City
Li
Ights called THE
MOST BEAUTIFUL GIRL IN TOWN. Gritty, mildly pornograhic,
very entertaining
stories.
DWM
On Thu, 29 Aug
1996, Chris Hartley wrote:
> READ
BUKOWSKI'S NOTES OF A DIRTY OLD MAN RECENTLY.
HYSTERICAL. LOVED THE
> SHORTY ON
MEETING COWBOY NEAL AND TAKING A SPIN WITH HIM.
THIS IS THE ONLY
> READ OF HIS
I'VE DONE. ANY SUGGESTIONS? THANKS MUCH.
>
>
>
> --
> --
>
_________________________________________________________________
>
> _/_/_/
_/_/ _/ _/
Chris Hartley
> _/ _/
_/ _/_/_/_/ Emerging Debt Markets
> _/_/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/
> _/ _/
_/ _/ _/ voice: (212)-902-8110
> _/_/_/
_/_/ _/ _/
email: hartlc@fi.gs.com
>
_________________________________________________________________
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:13:41 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
DAVID W MYERS
writes:
> I've enjoyed
Bukowski's novels WOMEN, POST OFFICE, and HAM ON RYE
> immensely.
For short stories check out the collection published by City
> Lights
called THE MOST BEAUTIFUL GIRL IN TOWN. Gritty, mildly pornograhic,
> very
entertaining stories.
another good bit
of Bukowski is the film BARFLY to which he wrote the screenplay
for... whenever i
watch this film it always makes me think of Kerouac and the
Beats - or maybe
the early songs of Tom Waits who was also influenced by
Kerouac....
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:33:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: This silly canonical issue
I, for one, would
love to see more mention of Bukowski and lots of
others. What is bugging me is that every month we get
some post from
another sophmore
who has just discovered someone and wants to know if
they is or if
they isn't "beat".
The problem with
"beat" as literary term, even more than most such
labels is that it
is really a social tag for a group of friends.
Ginsberg and
Burroughs don't (to my eye) share much except that they
were friends and
that at least Ginsberg admired WB--I'm not sure WB
admires
anybody. Ginsberg and Kerouac seem to me
to share some things
in their vision.
Some Beats do, some don't.
I'd be much more
interested in the influence of Kerouac or Burroughs on
Hunter Thompson
(I would see more WB) than in whether of not Hunter is
"beat."
Good writing,
thank God, surpasses labels and the dogma of any movement.
I don't think the writers wasted any time
wondering whether or not they
were Beat.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:05:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<Robert.Peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video
clip?] The Miller take
>In a message
dated 96-08-28 11:25:31 EDT, Peltier write:
>
><< MTV
is commerce imitating art. There is
nothing new or revolutionary
>about
> the style or
techniques of rock video; film and other media were employing
> these
techniques many decades ago. If you see
"quick cuts, moving
> hand-held
camera, zooms" etc in a video and then see them in film, you
> cannot
assume that the video came first. Cinema
Verite, using hand-held
> cameras,
predates rock videos. A 1960s television
show called "I Spy" was
> famous for
its zooms. Look at the Beatles films
(which were influenced by
> earlier
films). MTV videos (with a few
exceptions) are just cheap
> imitations
of what came before them.
>
> When I hear
"MTV generation," it is usually in a context that denigrates
> that generation
(unfairly, I think, since I believe "generation" is a false
> construct to
simplify and commodify targets for ad agencies).
>
> The
"Beat Generation" (again, I'm using this term only as a comparison,
> since I
don't believe in it), was a group of people experimenting, pushing
> at
boundaries, trying--with various levels of success--to create something
> new. Critics may argue whether they were
successful in their attempts to
> create art
(I happen to think they were successful), but their attempts
> cannot be
denied. >>
>
>HEY HEY HEY
>
>It sounds
like a case of competing elitisms here.
>
>Was "The
Beat Generation" not commerce and art?
The GREAT lengths to which
>AG went to
get Burroughs published.... was WSB not creating art, and AG
>turning it
into commerce????
You're trying to
make me a straw man here. I never said
commerce and art
were
incompatible, but there _is_ a matter of emphasis. If Kerouac had
only been
interested in making big money, he would have followed up his
first novel with
another similar, and he would have made a nice income for
many years. He didn't.
He took chances. (And, yes, there
is a thing
called
"art")
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:29:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Sean McDonnell
<smcdonne@DOLPHIN.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: commerce
In-Reply-To: <v01520d01ae4ba7a08070@[157.252.97.38]>
from "Robert Peltier" at
Aug 29, 96 04:05:53 pm
so what's so
wrong about phony structures and commerce-aiding
labeling...it
helps provide confusion and grist in the rebel stomach.
s
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:03:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Iaquinta
<JIaqui2615@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]
I saw Barfly shortly after it was released
without any knowledge of
Bukowski, having
watched it again recently (after reading C.B.'s Pulp), I
recalled a friend
having told me that it was largely autobiographical.
Anyone know if there's any truth to that, I'm
shamefuly ignorant of his
personal life.
Eternally
Lecherous,
John
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:59:12 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "B. Sorensen"
<i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>
Subject: Ginsberg records with Paul McCartney
This just in from
web-zine Addicted to Noise
Check it out with
graphics at:
http://www.addict.com/html/lofi/MNOTW/display-news.cgi?96-08-29
>
----------------------------------------------
>
> Odd Couple: Allen Ginsberg &
Paul McCartney?
>
>
> Addicted To Noise staff writer
Gil
> Kaufman reports: In the tradition
of William
> Burroughs and Kurt Cobain, word
came
> yesterday that famed Beat poet
Allen Ginsberg
> has teamed up with Paul McCartney, Patti
> Smith guitarist/producer Lenny Kaye
and
> minimalist composer Philip Glass to
record a
> version of his 1995 protest
song/poem,
> "Ballad of the
Skeletons," first published in
> The Nation last November.
Apparently, Mercury
> Records President Danny Goldberg
caught a
> Ginsberg reading recently and fell
in love
> with the work, and since Ginsberg
has long
> counted McCartney as one of his pals, one
> thing led to another and this odd
quartet got
> together and McCartney laid down
some drums,
> guitar, Hammond organ and maracas,
Kaye added
> some bass and produced the single
and Glass
> filled in any gaps on piano.
Additionally,
> avant-garde guitarist Marc Ribot is
on the
> track. As you might recall,
Ginsberg had
> previously recorded with the Clash.
One of
> the best known poets from the Beat
era,
> Ginsberg's best-known work remains
the epic
> "Howl." Not surprisingly,
the new single is
> slated for an October 8 release, in
time to
> stir up a little presidential
election action
> and maybe create the unlikely
scenario of
> Ginsberg sitting down to some
early-morning
> coffee and chatter with Katie
Couric and
> Bryant Gumbel. Yeah, sure.
Regards,
bs
Department of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:06:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Kerouac's October
Just finished
reading Kerouac's "October in the Railroad Earth" last
night. This puts
me at the beginning of November 1952 in my
chronological
reading of the published Beat canon.
"October"
gave me a good feeling Kerouac's maturation as a writer in the
18 months or so
since he'd pounded out the first scroll draft of "On the
Road" in
April 1951. After retyping and revising (and considerable
obsessing over)
OTR, he began to seriously pursue his "sketching"
technique in the
fall of that year just before going west to move in
with Neal and
Carolyn Cassady in San Francisco. In the Cassady's attic
Jack
"rewrote" OTR, eventually renaming that manuscript "Visions of
Cody". VOC
was of course a tour de force of experimental acrobatics
which ultimately,
I think, exhausted (for the time being) Jack's need to
immortalize Neal.
"Mexican Fellaheen" (from "Lonesome Traveler")
documents Jack's
experiences during the few days between the time he was
dropped off at
the Mexican border by Neal and family, and Jack's arrival
at Burroughs'
pad. Neal has no presence in
"Mexican Fellaheen".
Staying with
Burroughs, Jack smoked "three bombers a day" and wrote "Dr.
Sax" in a
month. This book turns even further away from Neal's influence
back to Jack's
adolescence in Lowell. I finished it last week and found
its brilliance
almost blinding, like driving into the sun. Listening to
the 1960 audio
recording of Kerouac reading from DS was tremendously
helpful. The text
has a density approaching "Naked Lunch", and Jack's
slow, nostalgic
reading brought out condensed, multi-layered meaning in
each phrase.
The Beat
correspondence of the summer/fall of 1952 is bizarre.
Especially
Kerouac's infamous raging rant at Ginsberg written the first
week of October.
(You know which one I'm talking about. Gee, wouldn't
THAT letter be
fun to discuss...)
Which brings me
back to "October in the Railroad Earth", written in a
flop house on
skid row in San Francisco while Jack worked as a brakeman
during October
(of course) 1952 and drank Tokay wine. I'm sure the wine
had a lot to do
with the relaxed rhythm of the prose, but I also wonder
if, in the year
and a half since Jack had pounded out his "great
American
novel", created his own "Ulysses" (VOC), and dove deep into his
psyche to produce
a fantasy novel of childhood dreams, whether he had
simply gotten to
the point where he no longer had to prove to himself or
anybody that he
was a great writer. (Although readers of the
abovementioned
10/52 letter may dispute this view.) I believe that at
this point in his
career he simply could not NOT write.
Comments?
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:42:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Kerouac's October
John W. Hasbrouck
writes:
> Which brings
me back to "October in the Railroad Earth", written in a
> flop house
on skid row in San Francisco while Jack worked as a brakeman
> during
October (of course) 1952 and drank Tokay wine. I'm sure the wine
> had a lot to
do with the relaxed rhythm of the prose, but I also wonder
> if, in the
year and a half since Jack had pounded out his "great
> American
novel", created his own "Ulysses" (VOC), and dove deep into his
> psyche to
produce a fantasy novel of childhood dreams, whether he had
> simply
gotten to the point where he no longer had to prove to himself or
> anybody that
he was a great writer. (Although readers of the
>
abovementioned 10/52 letter may dispute this view.) I believe that at
> this point
in his career he simply could not NOT write.
> Comments?
"October in
the Railroad Earth" is one of my favourite pieces of prose by
Kerouac and my
first exposure to it was the excerpt he read on the CD Box Set...
powerful stuff!
this work seems even more impressive when you hear him read it
and catch all the
little nuances and inflections... as MEMORY BABE points out,
it doesn't always
seem to make sense on the page, but when you hear him read it
or you read it
aloud it becomes more coherent... but i think there are just some
wonderful images
in "October" - vintage Kerouac to be sure....
"...and I go
to the wailbar of all the wildbars in the world the one and only
Third-and-Howard
and there I go and drink with the madmen and if I get drunk I
git."
bfn,
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 19:51:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video
clip?] The Miller take
In-Reply-To: <v01520d01ae4ba7a08070@[157.252.97.38]>
On Thu, 29 Aug
1996, Robert Peltier wrote:
> >Was
"The Beat Generation" not commerce and art? The GREAT lengths to which
> >AG went
to get Burroughs published.... was WSB not creating art, and AG
> >turning
it into commerce????
>
> You're
trying to make me a straw man here. I
never said commerce and art
> were
incompatible, but there _is_ a matter of emphasis. If Kerouac had
> only been
interested in making big money, he would have followed up his
> first novel
with another similar, and he would have made a nice income for
> many
years. He didn't. He took chances. (And, yes, there is a thing
> called
"art")
An interesting
piece on this subject is Burroughs' "Beauty and the
Bestseller"
(in _The Adding Machine_) in which he gives advice on how to
write frankly
commercial stuff. But he concludes: "You don't sit down and
concoct a
bestseller. I've tried. Either the story runs away with you and
gets out of hand
and you write what you have to write, or else you strike
lucky and get a
subject the public wants anyway."
***
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
"Human time
is measured in terms of human
change. So the
most flagrant time-wasting
may minimize
change and thus conserve time"
***
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:50:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Railroad Earth
Another vote from
a "Railroad Earth" fan--to my mind one of the best
introductions to
Kerouac there is and much better if you have heard
Jack's bit from
the boxed set.
I live within the
sound of that piece of track now, and it's nice to
remember Jack and
Neal on that train (there it goes) when the SF
Peninsula was so
different--when "3 Com Park" was a stock yard and
before
redevelopment got ahold of so much of South of Market. Just
great, relaxed,
mature writing. I try to read it every
October.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:13:54 CST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bob Jordan
<enjordan@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Railroad Earth
I recently picked
up the Kerouac box set (Kerouac box set? God what a world!)
ON disc three he
reads an essay on the beat generation at a forum on the same.
Can anyone tell
me where that piece was published, and how I might obtain a
copy of it?
Thanks, Bob Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:33:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Wild Boys
Hello folks.
I just finished
reading _The Wild Boys_ for the first time.
Has anyone else
on this list read
this novel LATELy?
If you have, and
would like to discuss it, I'd like to hear from you.
William
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:33:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Burroughs admires..........
In a message
dated 96-08-29 15:35:52 EDT, James Stauffer write:
<< Ginsberg
and Burroughs don't (to my eye) share much except that they
were friends and that at least Ginsberg
admired WB--I'm not sure WB
admires anybody. >>
Well, I can tell
you one thing --- Burroughs (IMHO) admires Conrad. Also
Denton Welch,
which is apparent.
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:33:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: [MTV help?/MTV or video clip?] The
Miller take
In a message
dated 96-08-29 16:15:58 EDT, Peltier write:
<< You're
trying to make me a straw man here. I
never said commerce and art
were incompatible, but there _is_ a matter of
emphasis. If Kerouac had
only been interested in making big money, he
would have followed up his
first novel with another similar, and he would
have made a nice income for
many years.
He didn't. He took chances. (And, yes, there is a thing
called "art")
>>
The Burroughs
take from the Adding Machine speaks well.
(Thanks to Jeff
Taylor for this): An interesting piece
on this subject is
Burroughs'
"Beauty and the Bestseller" (in _The Adding Machine_) in which he
gives advice on
how to write frankly commercial stuff. But he concludes: "You
don't sit down
and concoct a bestseller. I've tried. Either the story runs
away with you and
gets out of hand
and you write what you have to write, or else you strike
lucky and get a
subject the public wants anyway."
i HAD the same
quote in mind. I think that it addresses
this topic.
Kerouac had no
guaranteed way to make a best-seller or better-selling novel.
I believe that he was doing his best to
best-sell, but it's all just
stabbing in the
dark.
The statement
"He took chances." (Peltier) is one I disagree with somewhat.
He did and he didn't. Making yourself some sort of celebrity (and
playing
celebrity when
given the chance) works to insure your success in the vein of
commerce
(rather than
making a mark in the canon).
"And, yes,
there is a thing called "art"....." Well, that varies from
person
to person. Sort of like- there is a thing called
truth. I never said that
there was NOT a
thing called "art" (an equally absurd statement) but that I
hate the term.
One of the big
BEAT GENERATION topics (I would think) would be the successes
of JK, AG, and
WSB at MERGING the creative and the commercial (not merely the
marketable but
the commercial).
I have heard that
writing is the most intimate form of communication between
two men, one
sitting at his desk, the other seated in a chair. For these
three men, and
others associated with them, it's never been like that.
AG and WSB are
both old men now, and have gone far beyond the relationship
between writer
and reader, delving into other art forms, commercial
enterprises, et
cetera. Kerouac did an immensely
personal thing. He
couldn't stop
writing about himself, and his life stories have impressed
many. It's not merely an "academic" thing
or a "literary" thing. It's a
BEAT thing.
If they're a
literary movement, are they not the MOST celebrity/commercial
lit
movement? They've been public figures,
drawing attention to themselves
in what was a
most un-writerly way.
*****I
thought**** that they were purposefully running COUNTER to academe,
and their exclusion
from the "canon" (and their celebrity status) would be to
their
liking. Is it not to our liking? Or
would that be saying that it's not
"ART" (gasp!)?
William Miller
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:51:19 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "J.D. P. Lafrance"
<J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>
Organization:
Ridley College
Subject: Re: Railroad Earth
Bob Jordan
writes:
> I recently
picked up the Kerouac box set (Kerouac box set? God what a
> world!) ON
disc three he reads an essay on the beat generation at a forum on
> the same.
Can anyone tell me where that piece was published, and how I might
> obtain a
copy of it? Thanks, Bob Jordan
i believe you're
referring to the "Is There A Beat Generation?" track? that was
originally from
an essay Kerouac wrote for PLAYBOY magazine entitled, "Beatific:
The Origins of
the Beat Generation" (i believe that's the title) but it is
reprinted in THE
PORTABLE JACK KEROUAC book that's out in stores... it's
considerably
longer than what Jack read on the box set - well worth a looksee...
bfn
JDL
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:13:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<rpeltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: [MTV help?/MTV or video clip?] The
Miller take
>
>"And,
yes, there is a thing called "art"....." Well, that varies from
person
>to
person. Sort of like- there is a thing
called truth. I never said that
>there was NOT
a thing called "art" (an equally absurd statement) but that I
>hate the
term.
>*****I
thought**** that they were purposefully running COUNTER to academe,
>and their
exclusion from the "canon" (and their celebrity status) would be to
>their
liking. Is it not to our liking? Or
would that be saying that it's not
>"ART" (gasp!)?
>
>William
Miller
>
If you're
referring to a rather dated and elitist notion of "art" (current
when Kerouac et
al were writing) then I would agree with the first paragraph
above.
But my criterion
for art is that it must force us to look at the world in
new ways and
shake us from our easy, received perceptions.
I believe the
beats' work did
that.
And that
"canon" has become much more inclusive in recent years. In my
introductory
literature courses (where I tell students that literature is
whatever the hell
we say it is [we being not us academics, but us readers]),
I teach Vonnegut,
Ferlinghetti, Ginsberg, Yeats, Keats, Shakespeare,
Sophocles,
Kerouac, Joyce, etc. without bringing in false comparisons of
aesthetics.
One could, I
suppose, make the argument that Kerouac, the beats, and their
successors,
"running COUNTER to academe," changed the academy and became
part of it as a
consequence. I'm not quite ready to make
that argument yet,
but I'd be
interested to hear what others have to say on that subject.
================================================================
Robert Francis
Peltier
Lecturer in the
Writing Center
Trinity College
Hartford,
Connecticut 06106
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:26:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy <neil@SQ.COM>
Subject: Re: Wild Boys
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@qucdn.queensu.ca>
On Fri, 30 Aug 1996
09:33:07 -0400 William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM> wrote:
> I just
finished reading _The Wild Boys_ for the first time. Has anyone else
> on this list
read this novel LATELy?
>
> If you have,
and would like to discuss it, I'd like to hear from you.
I'm not sure if
you wanted this posted to the list, but hey, why not? When
asked by people I
meet why I like Burroughs or what book by him they should
read to be best
introduced to his work, I recommend _The Wild Boys_. The way I
look at his work,
it is a transitional piece, somewhere between the cut-up
trilogy and the
narrative structure of the Cities trilogy.
There are Wild
Boys running through the rest of his oeuvre disrupting American
power structures,
cavorting about sticking it to the military and matriarchal
family
constructs, and causing a general ruckus throughout history. We also get
to see the first
bit of tenderness from Burroughs with the first of the boys
going on gay
'journeys of discovery' that are littered throughout the next ten
years of his
writing. (The golf course scenes are the ones I remember most
vividly from The
Wild Boys, along with the green boy and the river).
The cut-ups are
still present, running through the book, tying it together in
the Penny Arcade
Peep Show chapters, so he hasn't abadoned the cut-up method
quite yet.
There are also
some of the funniest passages Burroughs has ever written in
_The Wild Boys_.
The opening bit with the crazy-eyed flower vendor is great,
and the one about
the Mother Superior with a strap-on was hilarious.
One of the other
important things to note about The Wild Boys is the cinematic
structure that
has creeped into the work. This comes soon after Dutch Schultz,
Burroughs' failed
attempt at script-writing. He eventually conceded that it
didn't work as a
film script and released it under the suspect title of "The
Last Words of
Dutch Schultz: A Fiction in the Form of a Film Script". _The Wild
Boys_ comes much
closer to marrying the two forms (fiction\film) by always
giving a camera's
eye view, prefacing each scene with camera instructions
like 'zoom in' or
'close up'. To see how this develops read 'Blade Runner: A
Movie'.
You should also
read _Port of Saints_ since it was taken from largely the same
material as _The
Wild Boys_. PoS contains more actual Wild Boys material than
_The Wild Boys_.
Other than _Dead
Roads_, _The Wild Boys_ is the Burroughs book I have re-read
the most. Great
stuff, a real tour de force by a brilliant author in flux. It
encompasses the
best elements of his earlier experimentation, as well as
portending the
power and economy of his future prose works. (Note the a propos
adjectives, har
har)
Cheers,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:37:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy <neil@SQ.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs admires..........
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@qucdn.queensu.ca>
On Fri, 30 Aug
1996 09:33:29 -0400 William Miller <KenWNC@aol.com> wrote:
> In a
message dated
96-08-29 15:35:52 EDT, James Stauffer write:
>
> <<
Ginsberg and Burroughs don't (to my eye) share much except that they
> were friends and that at least Ginsberg
admired WB--I'm not sure WB
> admires anybody. >>
>
> Well, I can
tell you one thing --- Burroughs (IMHO) admires Conrad. Also
> Denton
Welch, which is apparent.
In _My Education_
Burroughs says that Gysin is the only man he ever respected.
Among the artists
he admires one has to include Paul Klee, Samuel Beckett (he
has a picture of
him hanging in his bedroom), Jean Genet, Ernest Hemingway,
Hieronymous
Bosch, Franz Kafka and of course Jack Black.
As for the talk
about defining art or establishing its existence, the most
useful and
instructive book I have ever seen on the matter is _Feeling and
Form_ by Susanne
Langer. If you ever believed that there was something that
unified all the
arts, that the aim and processes involved are similar, that
they are all
connected by an underlying thread, then Langer takes that a priori
belief and makes
it concrete in a powerful and convincing manner. She is a
first rate
thinker and gives renewed dignity to the label 'philosopher'.
Stay Warm,
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:14:04 CST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bob Jordan
<enjordan@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [MTV help?/MTV or video clip?] The
Miller take
Robert Peltier
wrote, "One could, I suppose, make the argument that Kerouac,
the beats, and
their successors...changed the academy and became part of it
as a
consequence." I would have to agree, based on the fact that so many
of our
colleagues, myself included, now teach beat classes in the academic
setting.
Bob Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:24:36 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Erik Skjeveland
<Erik.Skjeveland@LIT.UIB.NO>
Subject: Bukowski Poems on CD called
"HOSTAGE"
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@SEARN.SUNET.SE>
In-Reply-To: <00093BA9.fc@ridley.on.ca>
More on Buk's CD
"HOSTAGE" which I've been listening to
lately. This is a
great reading, his spontainious rejoinders
with the audience
being almost better than his poems (ex: ok
you guys, your 6
dollars are shrinking up like a dead dick out
of Norway, under
a sheet of snow...these are extras like a
little saliva on
the edge of a cunt...).
The selection of
poems read is great, and most of them in the
humorous vein.
Problem is I can't seem to locate most of them
in Buk's Black
Sparrow books. A few are from in "Dangling in
the
Tournefortia". But most are as far as I can see from other
sources.
Can any of you
help me locate these poems? Buk does mention
that some of them
were accepted by the New York Quarterly.
Makes you wonder
how many gems are out there still
uncollected.
Gives us something to look forward to. Well
here's the list
of poems on the CD, as far as I've been able
to trancribe:
- 73 dollar horse
- Jam (indecent
exposure on the freeway...)
- What have I
seen? (Catullus at the race track...)
- Trouble
(photographing a naked mannequin...)
- Competition
(farting is a lot like fucking...)
- The secret of
my endurance (from Dangling)
- On the hustle
(from Dangling)...
- I am a
reasonable man (from Dangling)
- Eating the
father (planecrash & cannibalism...)
- The 9 horse
(beershit and dirty money...)
- I don't need a
Cleopatra (in the backyard in his boxer
shorts...)
- Hemingway
(photograph of Hemingway fat, drunk, and in
bed...)
- Fan letter
- The drunk with
the little legs
- Tour
- The recess
bells of school
- A poetry
reading (from Dangling)
Can anyone give
me some clues on these?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
the longer I live
the more I realize
that I knew
exactly what I was doing
when I didn't
seem to be doing
anything
but watching a
wet fly on the
bar
nuzzling a pool
of
spilled beer.
-Charles
Bukowski: "Betting on the Muse"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Erik.Skjeveland@lit.uib.no
University of
Bergen, Norway
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:24:36 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "John W. Hasbrouck"
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Kerouac's October]
X-Mozilla-Status:
0001
Message-ID:
<3226BB01.3998@tezcat.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug
1996 09:57:21 +0000
From: "John
W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@tezcat.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla
2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Ted Harms
<tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re:
Kerouac's October
References:
<Pine.OSF.3.91.960830083928.12919A-100000@library.uwaterloo.ca>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Ted Harms wrote:
>
> If you got
the time, I'd be very interested in seeing your chronological
> list. Or if you've pulled it from some other source
(A. Charters?), just
> point me to
it.
>
Ted,
The only list I'm
using is a chronological chart I devised of published
correspondence
between Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs and Cassady (I also
occasionally
include relevant letters to or from such people as Kerouac's
family, John
Clellon Holmes, Carl Solomon, Malcolm Cowley, etc.) I basically
include anything
I want, but since there's so much material to pursue by
these (my
favorite) four Beat writers, there's no reason to go to far afield.
Carolyn Cassady's
memoir "Off the Road" has been invaluable.
The scheme behind
this reading project is that I'm reading the
correspondence,
memiors, novels, poems, every bio I can get my hands on, and
essays, all
concurrently and choronologically. That is, year by year, month
by month, week by
week, day by day, and sometimes hour by hour. Sometimes two
letters are dated
the same day, and I have the fun of trying to figure out
which one was
written earlier in the day. Example: A while back I came across
two letters
written on the same day in 1949 from different coasts by Kerouac
and Cassady
respectively. In the Kerouac letter he mentions that he's going
to a party that
evening at John Clellon Holmes' pad in New York. In the "The
Beat
Vision", (Knight, ed.), there were excerpts from Holmes' journals in
which he
describes that party on the morning after. The Cassady letter makes
reference to the
time of the letter's composition being late at night. So
there's my
chronology.
For the novels
which cover real events, I make a decision as to whether I
wish to read them
during the time at which they were written, or during the
time which they
cover, or both.
> Also, who
are you including in your 'canon'? This
isn't flame bait but
> I'm
wondering how many people you're including - obviously, Kerouac,
> Gins, and
Burroughs but are you also including Di Palma, Snyder, Welch,
> Corso,
Holmes, et al? (If you are - man, you've
done a lot of reading!)
>
I include
whatever I want in my Beat Canon. I'm using the word "canon" in the
same way one
might use it when refering to, for instance, the "Jimi Hendrix
Canon" (or,
for that matter, the "Western Canon"). This means that if someone
wishes to dispute
a choice I've made for inclusion, I have to ARGUE for that
inclusion. I've
not yet gotten into DiPrima, Snyder or Welch yet, because I'm
only up to
November 1952, and none of them are yet on the scene. I may or may
not pursue them
extensively when the time comes, depending on whether their
stuff grabs me.
By 11/52, Allen and Jack had known Corso for about a year,
but Gregory
hadn't published yet, so there's nothing to read.
And yes I try to
read a lot. My Beat reading project is only a fraction of
the reading I do.
> Anyways, I
know this is probably asking a lot but if you got the time,
> I'd greatly
appreciate it. I think other people on
the list might find
> it
interesting (hopefully it won't bring the 'beat cannon' debate), so if
> you post it
on the list, no need to reply directly to me.
Canonicity
debates have only limited interest for me.
Thanks for your
interest,
John Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:23:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Neil Hennessy <neil@SQ.COM>
Subject: Re: [MTV help?/MTV or video clip?] Neil
on the make
Comments: To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@qucdn.queensu.ca>
On Fri, 30 Aug
1996 10:13:42 -0400 Robert Peltier
<rpeltier@mail.cc.trincoll.edu>
wrote:
> And that
"canon" has become much more inclusive in recent years. In my
> introductory
literature courses (where I tell students that literature is
> whatever the
hell we say it is [we being not us academics, but us readers]),
> I teach
Vonnegut, Ferlinghetti, Ginsberg, Yeats, Keats, Shakespeare,
> Sophocles,
Kerouac, Joyce, etc. without bringing in false comparisons of
> aesthetics.
What, no
Burroughs? ;-) And how is comparing aesthetics 'false'? I'd really
like to see that
fleshed out. To claim that studying an author's aesthetics is
spurious seems to
me to be a grievous error. All the aspects of an artist's
work stem from
their reasons and impulse to make art. By examining those
reasons I find I
can develop a fuller understanding of the motivating forces
and vital import
that drives their work. What about Jean Genet, who will step
outside of the
narrative of his work and make bold aesthetic statements? His
aesthetics are
naked and work as a powerful force from _within_ his books.
There are some
pretty straightforward self-reflexive parts in _A Portrait of
the Artist_ if I
remember correctly, what about those passages?
> One could, I
suppose, make the argument that Kerouac, the beats, and their
> successors,
"running COUNTER to academe," changed the academy and became
> part of it
as a consequence. I'm not quite ready to
make that argument yet,
> but I'd be
interested to hear what others have to say on that subject.
In this vein it
would be fruitful to read the introduction to Morgan's Literary
Outlaw which
talks about Burroughs' induction to The American Academy of Arts
and Letters. Also
look at Genet and his pardon. The French are a lot weirder
when it comes to
co-opting those that weigh the heaviest criticism against
them. Genet sets
himself up as an outsider in his work and the government
pardoned him
because he was an artist. Interesting stuff.
Have a fun Labour
Day everyone! Going up to the cottage for some reading,
relaxation, and
contemplation...
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:18:38 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: [MTV help?/MTV or video clip?] The
Miller take
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:33:37 -0400
from <KenWNC@AOL.COM>
In a real sense,
the Beat movement grew out of Columbia University. I'm not su
re that I'd agree
that it was a purpose of the movement to run counter to acade
me. Rather, the Academy at the time rejected, for
the most part, the values of
writers like Ginsberg and Kerouac. English departments then were still under
the sway of the
New Criticism. They tended to ignore
topics like mysticism
and spirituality, something that inter
ested Kerouac and
Ginsberg. The question of the Beat role
in the canon is an i
nteresting
one. When I was writing my master's
thesis on Kerouac in 1972, a Co
lumbia professor
who was sympathetic to his work said:
"Why do you want to tha
t for? Making him part of the canon will be the
quickest way to kill him. Nob
ody will read him
anymore." Obviously, I
disagreed. I think the Beat Movemen
t will have an
important place in American literary history and I'm glad that s
o many Beat
writers have accepted positions in colleges and universities. They
've even
established their own center of learning -- the Naropa Institute.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:33:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs admires..........
Add to the list:
John Giorno
Keith Haring
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:24:47 CST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bob Jordan
<enjordan@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Railroad Earth
Thanks, I'll look
for it. Bob Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:31:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott Greenberg
<SGreenb622@AOL.COM>
Subject: Railroad Earth
Is Kerouac's
"October in the Railroad Earth" the same as the Lonesome
Traveler piece
Ann Charters excerpted as "The Railroad Earth" in The Portable
Jack
Kerouac? If so, why the disparity in the titles? Is the full piece in
Lonesome
Traveler?
SRG
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:54:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: New Biography
Viking (Penguin) are announcing in their Fall
list a bio of JK 'Jack
Keroucac:
Angelheaded Hipster" by Steve Turner. Anyone know anything about
this? And do we
actually need another biography? What is your favorite bio
anyhow? I rather
prefer Jack's Book to the actual biographies...
Nick W-W
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:43:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Railroad Earth
At 01:31 PM
8/30/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Is Kerouac's
"October in the Railroad Earth" the same as the Lonesome
>Traveler
piece Ann Charters excerpted as "The Railroad Earth" in The Portable
>Jack
Kerouac? If so, why the disparity in the titles? Is the full piece in
>Lonesome
Traveler?
>
>SRG
Yes. I haven't read the Portable Beat Reader but I
would assume it is the
entire piece not
just an excerpt, but I couldn't say for sure.
Kerouac's title
is October in the Railroad Earth. The
railroad earth is the
same thing. Editors like to shorten things I guess.
Lonesome
Traveller has the full piece, yes.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:43:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@XX.ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Railroad Earth
In-Reply-To: <009A79CB.44238B5F.7@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
On Fri, 30 Aug
1996, Bob Jordan wrote:
> I recently
picked up the Kerouac box set (Kerouac box set? God what a world!)
> ON disc
three he reads an essay on the beat generation at a forum on the same.
> Can anyone
tell me where that piece was published, and how I might obtain a
> copy of it?
Thanks, Bob Jordan
>
That piece
published in Playboy is available in
_The_Good_Blonde_&_Other_Stories_.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)266-7067 Appalachian State University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:57:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF
SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs admires..........
...and cats.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:51:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@XX.ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Railroad Earth
In-Reply-To: <199608301743.KAA10183@hsc.usc.edu>
On Fri, 30 Aug
1996, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> >Jack
Kerouac? If so, why the disparity in the titles? Is the full piece in
> >Lonesome
Traveler?
>
> Kerouac's
title is October in the Railroad Earth.
The railroad earth is the
> same
thing. Editors like to shorten things I
guess.
>
> Lonesome
Traveller has the full piece, yes.
>
The Lonesome
Traveller piece is entitled The Railroad Earth.
There it
first
appeared. The title on the Box Set is
October in the Railroad
Earth. Most of the titles on that set are taken from
the text rather
than the original
pieces.
------------------
Alex Howard (704)266-7067 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 22:20:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Denton Welch
Sorry I missed
the apparent admiration of Mr. Welch, Mr. Miller.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 22:26:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: [MTV help?/MTV or video clip?] The
Miller take
>
> And that
"canon" has become much more inclusive in recent years. In my
> introductory
literature courses (where I tell students that literature is
> whatever the
hell we say it is [we being not us academics, but us readers]),
> I teach
Vonnegut, Ferlinghetti, Ginsberg, Yeats, Keats, Shakespeare,
> Sophocles,
Kerouac, Joyce, etc. without bringing in false comparisons of
> aesthetics.
No women, no
people of coulor, and still no "false comparisons of
aesthetics? If we could all only be so cool.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 18:12:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: question
I was a member of
this group in may-june but went on a summerlong
vacation so did
not have access to internet, e-mail, etc. I have two
requests:
1. somebody,
toward the end of June when if I can remember that far back
the major issue
of discussion was zen and buddhism, mentioned that a
magazine was to
have a major article on the Beats, I believe the person
in charge of it
mentioned that it was a newyork-based paper - I have
glanced in vain -
any body know what mag it was, I believe the issue was
to be August
2. If anything
important went on (i.e. events, publications, or even just
interesting
disscusions on this list) I would appreciate any update
Thanx
Eric
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 18:38:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Peltier
<robert.peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Boneheads
>>
>> And that
"canon" has become much more inclusive in recent years. In my
>>
introductory literature courses (where I tell students that literature is
>> whatever
the hell we say it is [we being not us academics, but us readers]),
>> I teach
Vonnegut, Ferlinghetti, Ginsberg, Yeats, Keats, Shakespeare,
>>
Sophocles, Kerouac, Joyce, etc. without bringing in false comparisons of
>>
aesthetics.
>
>No women, no
people of coulor, and still no "false comparisons of
>aesthetics? If we could all only be so cool.
Apparently you
missed the "etc." I was making
comparisons with the beats
and the old
canon. I also include, _among others_,
Wharton, Woolfe, Paley,
Head, Baldwin,
Flannery O'Connor, Langston Hughes, Mukerjee, and so forth.
But thanks for
jumping without thinking, just like a good little fascist.
You've memorized
the code words, but I'll bet in your heart of hearts
you're a dittohead.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 22:42:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "M.Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Bukowski Honor In Movie Ending (Not Beat
related)
Hmm,
Just finished
watching the movie "The Crossing Guard" by Sean Penn;
with Jack
Nicholson, Angelica Houston and Robbie Robertson
(of The
Band). During the closing pan-out there
are the words:
"For my friend,
Henry Charles Bukowski, Jr.
I miss you,
S.P."
Just thought it
might be of interest to someone.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:39:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a.griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: tecnique & reason
Answer:
1) because it's
there.
2) it lights me
up and makes me go. self
medicating. makes me big and
small at the same
time. opens the good 'ol "doors of
perception" (at least
one or two
anyway). it makes me laugh and laughter is contagious.
3) (I digress) if
you took pot away from the people there would probably be
teeming masses of
throbbing pissed off drunks looking to kick the world's
collective ass by
any means necessary.
4) relieves
stress. physical, emotional, spiritual.
6) people's
peaceful
peace pipe of
peace
protruding with
plentiful
pot
6) comic relief.
7) relieves
cramps (Lorraine)
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:47:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: tecnique & reason
s.a.griffin
wrote:
>
> Answer:
>
> 1) because
it's there.
>
> 2) it lights
me up and makes me go. self
medicating. makes me big and
> small at the
same time. opens the good 'ol
"doors of perception" (at least
> one or two
anyway). it makes me laugh and laughter is contagious.
>
> 3) (I
digress) if you took pot away from the people there would probably be
> teeming
masses of throbbing pissed off drunks looking to kick the world's
> collective
ass by any means necessary.
>
> 4) relieves
stress. physical, emotional, spiritual.
>
> 6) people's
> peaceful
> peace pipe of
> peace
> protruding with
> plentiful
> pot
>
> 6) comic
relief.
>
> 7) relieves
cramps (Lorraine)
>
> xxxooo
> s.a.
the use of two
"6's" and the omission of a "5" was a beautiful poetic
touch.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 01:01:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: neo-beat
In a message
dated 97-05-01 00:43:14 EDT, you write:
<< Kathy
Acker stomped past me in Lawrence >>
Beat K.A.?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:20:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: tecnique & reason
1 2 3 4 6 6 7 ???
(see below)
says it all
(yeah cheap
shot-I make typos all the time--but hard to resist)
>Answer:
>
>1) because
it's there.
>
>2) it lights
me up and makes me go. self
medicating. makes me big and
>small at the
same time. opens the good 'ol "doors
of perception" (at least
>one or two
anyway). it makes me laugh and laughter is contagious.
>
>3) (I
digress) if you took pot away from the people there would probably be
>teeming
masses of throbbing pissed off drunks looking to kick the world's
>collective
ass by any means necessary.
>
>4) relieves
stress. physical, emotional, spiritual.
>
>6) people's
> peaceful
> peace pipe of
> peace
> protruding with
> plentiful
> pot
>
>6) comic
relief.
>
>7) relieves
cramps (Lorraine)
>
>
>xxxooo
>s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:21:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: tecnique & reason
>s.a.griffin
wrote:
>>
>> Answer:
>>
>> 1)
because it's there.
>>
>> 2) it
lights me up and makes me go. self
medicating. makes me big and
>> small at
the same time. opens the good 'ol
"doors of perception" (at least
>> one or
two anyway). it makes me laugh and laughter is contagious.
>>
>> 3) (I
digress) if you took pot away from the people there would probably be
>> teeming
masses of throbbing pissed off drunks looking to kick the world's
>>
collective ass by any means necessary.
>>
>> 4)
relieves stress. physical, emotional,
spiritual.
>>
>> 6) people's
>> peaceful
>> peace pipe of
>> peace
>> protruding with
>> plentiful
>> pot
>>
>> 6) comic
relief.
>>
>> 7)
relieves cramps (Lorraine)
>>
>> xxxooo
>> s.a.
>
>the use of
two "6's" and the omission of a "5" was a beautiful poetic
>touch.
Just like that
guy who can take the curves way better after a few brewskis
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:29:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a.griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: exploding text/allen ginsberg tribute may
10th
O.K. kids, here
is something to chew on. . .
All submitted to
and approved by Listmaster Gargan.
I am to be a part
of a Ginsberg tribute May 10th at Beyond Baroque in
Venice, Ca. Aside from myself, there will be a long list
of names
including: John Thomas, Wanda Coleman, Ellyn Maybe,
Jerry Rubin, Laurel Ann
Bogen and on. . .
it will be quite an evening. In the
tradition of those we
talk about, think
about and look to here on the list this came to me.
I will alter/add
to Ginsberg's piece "On Burroughs Work" then e-mail to
whomever wishes
to participate by altering/adding. Then
send it back and so
on via backmail
to me until it is "finished" or the week is up. It is
imperative that
whomever jumps onto this trip works fast.
Not much time to
think about it,
and in the rules of J.K.'s spontaneous writing, it's what
works best. I will take the completed project with me to
the said tribute
and read/perform
it for the folks there. I will also
print/publish it on
Rose of Sharon
Press and give it away to those at Baroque and to those on
the list who
participate or wish to have a copy (please s.a.s.e., I ain't
rich). THESE WILL NOT BE SOLD ONLY GIVEN AWAY.
I thought that
this was a creative way to approach this in the spirit of
Allen and the
beats. Bring it into the present and out
of the clambake of
nostalgia by
launching him into cyberspace where he will spin far longer
than if he were
to be launched into good old outer space.
Backmail was the
only way I could see doing this as there would be
absolutely no way
to control the beats beast otherwise.
Some of you might
think this is juvenile, silly or sophomoric. . . well,
bless you; it
will give you something to talk about at the very least. I
wanted you all to
come with me on my adventure, The Twisted Caddy is gassed
up and ready to
roll down the international superhighway of words kids,
let's go. . .
xxxooo
s.a. griffin
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:33:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a.griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: technique & reason
ditto
timothy,
and I wasn't
even
stoned. . .
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:37:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's Facts and Errors
Dear Attila and
Beat-L Family, April 30, 1997
It's late, I came back from Albuquerque
only to have to spend a day
running around
northern California with a British film crew that is doing a
full-length
documentary on Jan Kerouac's life and fight to save her father's
papers, so I
can't fully answer all of Attila's questions right now.
But I just have to say, whoa, everyone,
please don't take Attila's
"facts"
as a starting point because some of them are vastly, 180 degrees WRONG.
Jan Kerouac was not on Medicaid. You have to make less than $600 a
month and she
made far too much to get on. She was on
a special program at
Lovelace Hospital
which was relatively inexpensive for certain aspects of
her care, but she
had to pay for the dialysis fluids, medications, bandages,
treatment by
specialists, and many other things out of her own
pocket--ambulances
for emergency hospitalizations, etc. etc.
When she lived
up near me the
summer of 1995, when her immune system was failing and she
had a huge
blister on her foot that wouldn't heal for six months and caused
her intense pain,
I used to drive her to the drugstore almost every day, and
I watched her
shell out twenties like we used to spend quarters at our
boyhood candy
store. When she died, she actually left
something like ten
thousand dollars
in unpaid medical bills. Remember, too,
that her eyesight
was so bad that
she had to take cabs everywhere--esp. down in Albuquerque
where there
wasn't much public transportation (and sometimes she was too
sick or in too
much pain to ride a bus anyway), and often too sick to cook
her own food and
so had to eat out a lot. Her expenses
were far more than
what yours or
mine would be.
A woman on life support, and all you
Sampas fans crying about how
much money she
was making--I think you all ought to be ashamed. Nobody's
crying how much
money Sampas is making, which has been ten times what Jan
made off her
father's work--and Sampas is not on life support (that I know).
And it was money
from her own father, for Christ's sake!
You've also got the whole Albuquerque
thing about as wrong as you
can. I did not sue John Lash. Jan made me her literary executor in her
will, and the
Second Judicial Court in Albuquerque granted me testamentary
letters, which
are the official confirmation that I am her literary
executor. John Lash, after making his deal with John
Sampas, went to court
in Albuquerque to
try to get me thrown out--just so I couldn't carry on
Jan's case
against the Sampases. He has not
succeeded, and hopefully never
will. At present, I AM Jan Kerouac's literary
executor with full authority
over all her
literary properties.
OK, I'm hoping you really want the
truth. I'll have some more
answers for you,
and everyone else, tomorrow.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:08:05 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
It's just always
seemed to me that life seems to produce a need for
medication. Pot's one of my favorites. Get's a wonderful
internal
dialogue going if
you like that sort of thing which seems
to attract a
lot of us with
literary tendencies. But I also like a
glass of wine or
so in the evening
also. There are lots of options. Doesn't seem to
work for
everyone. Some folks prefer nothing.
I've gone through long
periods of my
life where I was just tired of smoking dope, after nearly
20 years of
pretty much daily getting high. Felt it
tended to make me
sort of autistic
rather artistic. But I've been taking
periodic
refresher
courses. Different drugs affect us
differently. Different
metabolisms,
brain chemistries and belief systems.
To each his own.
But I would hate
to think of having missed reading something really
good, or really great music or film while nice and
loaded. Plus which
the sort of
perception that pot is about is pretty central to what
drives Beat Lit.
J Stauffer
s.a.griffin
wrote:
>
> Answer:
>
> 1) because
it's there.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 04:00:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: PHIL CHAPUT-REBUTTAL
Thanks for your
reply, Phil. And I salute your offer to
act as a bridge
between Nicosia
and Sampas. I truly hope something
positive can come of it.
Respectfully,
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:54:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: London bookstores
You're right of
course. What I meant to type was that they *sell* new books,
as opposed to the
second-hand stalls at Camden Lock. I sold books to them in
the 70's too!
But, hey, go easy, turns out we share the same birthday (April
26). And 18 years
of Tory misrule of my home country ends TODAY!
>In a message
dated 97-04-30 10:18:43 EDT, you write:
>
><<
Compendium is a new bookstore,
> but a lot of
Beat stuff, including otherwise hard-to-find newsletters and
> even some
bootleg cassettes, tho' that was some years back. >>
>
>NEW? Nick. I
was there in 68. Sold books to them in 70's. What year is it,
>anyway?
>C. Plymell
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 08:03:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: neo-beat
I did meet up
with her at a conference in Philadelphia ... I guess because
we talked a lot
about Grove, who she publishes with, it made me think
'beat'. Anyhow
this 300 lb 6'4" cab driver arrives to take her to the
airport, takes
one look at the punk apparel and the nose and navel rings and
tries to make a
run back to his cab and safety, but Kathy spots him and
hauls him off..
>Kathy Acker
stomped past me in Lawrence like I pinched her ass or something.
> She was
there to represent the punk contigent, I believe.
>C. Plymell
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:58:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac releases and a question...
In a message
dated 97-05-01 02:21:37 EDT, you write:
<< and _selected letters vol.1_
been released but also selections from _wake
up_ were published in
"tricycle", and the "nouvelle
francais" pieces, as well as the White
letters were pblished as well. on top of this
waterrow is issuing a plate
from keruac travel diaries over a sketch he
did (is that right jeffrey?) >>
Sorry, Derek -
you've got it almost 1/2 right....
The Kerouac
"plate" you mention is a print done on a letterpress by a fine
Massachusetts
printer. The project was done back in 1991 and is titled
"Visions Of
America." The print features a Kerouac drawing and the text
excerpt from a
Kerouac travel journal in which Jack writes about his journey
by car with Neal
and Carolyn through Arizona on the way to Mexico, 1952. This
was a limited
edition project
with only a few
hundred copies produced. I still have a copy or two available
for sale at the
original publication price - email me for more information if
interested in
ordering....
Thanks -
Jeffrey
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:19:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: May Day Blues
i've been
checking my door, mailbox and e-mail (even my bathroom window)
every ten seconds
or so since three this morning hoping to catch a
maybasket.
hope y'all get
maybaskets.
this can be an
imaginary cyber-basket on May Day.
include what ever you
like in yours.
david rhaesa
haven't got the
old may Pole out yet. i think it's
rusty.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:32:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Dylan-Plymell
Charlie Plymell,
I love your reminiscences, and wonder when (or if you have
already) written
a book of them. But here's a slight
correction. I may be
mistaken, but I
could swear Al Aronowitz told me he'd introduced Dylan to
Ginsberg in
1961-1962. (Aronowitz was the guy who
did the great 1959 NY
POST series on
the Beats, and later was their rock pop columnist in the
Sixties, the guy
who introduced Dylan to the Beatles and gave the Beatles
their first hit
of marijuana, etc.) We could all find
out if somebody
emailed Al, who's
considered himself the Blacklisted Journalist for the last
two decades, at
blackj@bigmagic.com.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:42:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Guy Norbury <GuyNorbury@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tom Waits
Yeah. That's Waits all right. He stars in "Down by Law" along
side
Roberto Bennini.
-Guy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"The piano's
been drinking, not me."
-Tom Waits
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:44:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a.griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: may 10th tribute to ginsberg
There will be a
tribute to Allen on Saturday, May 10th, 6p.m. at Beyond
Baroque Literary
Arts Center, 681 Venice Blvd., Venice, Ca.
(310) 822-3006,
fax (310)
827-7432
HOWL TO THE BARD
Hubert Selby, Jr.
Doug Knott
Mark Salerno
Wanda Coleman
Michael C. Ford
John Feines
Rob Cohen
Harry Northup
Philomene Long
Michael Lally
Laurel Ann Bogen
Eve Brandstein
Lewis MaCadams
S.A. Griffin
Michael
Silverblatt
Austin Strauss
Quincy Troupe
Michael Simmons
Liz Belile
Aram Saroyan
Ellyn Maybe
John Thomas
Jordan Jones
FranCeye
Jerry Rubin
David Ulin
Exene Cervenkova
Frank T. Rios
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:36:32 -0400
Reply-To: lcrev@law.emory.edu
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: lablugirl <lcrev@LAW.EMORY.EDU>
Subject: Anyone here?
Hi. When I last
checked this morning, I was on the list, reading along
contently. Is it
just me or am I the only one not getting mail sonce
I've returned
from my lunch?
- Lorri
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:39:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac releases and a question...
What I I think I
said was:
1.) In regard to the "specific"
release of material in LA NOUVELLE REVUE
FRANCAISE,
excerpts from those two texts I detailed in my post, the material
released was SO
BRIEF, and so minor as to be of little value in terms of our
getting a sense
of the whole work. As such, this gesture on the part of the
Estate seemed (in
this case) more an act of miserliness, than an act of
generosity. I
didn't state, or even imply, that they have been ungenerous
with the bulk of
the material they have released since Stella's death, i.e.
all those obvious
items you listed.
2.) As
for quality, I referred only to the poor quality of newsprint-type
paper used in the
first printing of BOOK OF BLUES -- not
the quality of any
of the works
themselves!
Ya gotta read ALL
the words, Derek! CHEERS! Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:36:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: exploding text/allen ginsberg tribute
may 10th
s.a.griffin
wrote:
>
> O.K. kids,
here is something to chew on. . .
>
> All
submitted to and approved by Listmaster Gargan.
>
> I am to be a
part of a Ginsberg tribute May 10th at Beyond Baroque in
> Venice, Ca. Aside from myself, there will be a long list
of names
>
including: John Thomas, Wanda Coleman,
Ellyn Maybe, Jerry Rubin, Laurel Ann
> Bogen and
on. . . it will be quite an evening. In
the tradition of those we
> talk about,
think about and look to here on the list this came to me.
>
> I will
alter/add to Ginsberg's piece "On Burroughs Work" then e-mail to
> whomever
wishes to participate by altering/adding.
Then send it back and so
> on via
backmail to me until it is "finished" or the week is up. It is
> imperative
that whomever jumps onto this trip works fast.
Not much time to
> think about
it, and in the rules of J.K.'s spontaneous writing, it's what
> works
best. I will take the completed project
with me to the said tribute
> and read/perform
it for the folks there. I will also
print/publish it on
> Rose of
Sharon Press and give it away to those at Baroque and to those on
> the list who
participate or wish to have a copy (please s.a.s.e., I ain't
> rich). THESE WILL NOT BE SOLD ONLY GIVEN AWAY.
>
> I thought
that this was a creative way to approach this in the spirit of
> Allen and
the beats. Bring it into the present and
out of the clambake of
> nostalgia by
launching him into cyberspace where he will spin far longer
> than if he
were to be launched into good old outer space.
>
> Backmail was
the only way I could see doing this as there would be
> absolutely
no way to control the beats beast otherwise.
>
> Some of you
might think this is juvenile, silly or sophomoric. . . well,
> bless you;
it will give you something to talk about at the very least. I
> wanted you
all to come with me on my adventure, The Twisted Caddy is gassed
> up and ready
to roll down the international superhighway of words kids,
> let's go. .
.
>
> xxxooo
> s.a. griffin
This sounds GREAT
!!! I don't find it sophomoric. The
Ginsberg
Burroughs work
connection is a fitting starting given the last phone
calls thread
before. A creative connection from the
phone call through
that Ginsbergian
winding a thread of creative thoughts through the
voices throughout
this wiring and back to the finish seems a beautiful
collective
tribute.
david rhaesa
salina, kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:50:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Ginsberg On Bravo at this moment!!!
Shit!! I just turned on Bravo and the Ginsberg
interview is on
as I type. Damn!!! Anyone tape
this?
Mike (3:50 pm
EST)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:06:18 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: iiw charm
International Workers of the
World
a century of struggle for a
better world
credits for Rolling
Stone
the charm
the musk doesn't grow
on the rolling stone,
Hare Krishna Hare
Krishna
we gotta go!
Krishna Krishna Hare
Hare
a day off work
Hare Rama Hare Rama
the point was,
it was
cool
when
we're
kids
Rama Rama Hare Hare
jobs that built a
nation
they
believed
they were going for
themself
& for
their families.
they're now squatter
from
their jobs,
forced to leave their
houses,
left with
broken
lives.
Hare Krishna Hare
Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare
Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare
* Rinaldo *
.......................................................................
this poem
is dedic
to an angel
who lives
in VT, U.S.A.
........................................................---------------
first may, 1997
Labour Day
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:12:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Phil Chaput, Kerouac Estate, &
Lowell Archive
In a message
dated 97-05-01 03:57:27 EDT, you write:
> I'm a little weary of everybody and his
brother throwing questions
>at me, and
here's Nicosia, always ready to answer.
I have a lot else in my
>life beside
Jack Kerouac, despite the lies of John Lash's lawyers and all
>the Sampas
supporters, including Rod Anstee.
Gerry, you crack
me up. First you invite people to send you questions, then
you're miffed
when they actually do. As for "always ready to answer", you
didn't answer my
two questions -- about Jan's income, and about Paul Blake
Jr. being a
defendent at one point in Jan's lawsuit --, nor acknowledge the
post at all,
which I sweated bricks over. And I see I'm
now accused of
telling
unspecified "lies." Cool!
Exactly like Sampas, you insist upon
polarizing the
Kerouac scene, into just two camps, US & THEM, even though the
issues and
personalities are complex. It's a completely simple-minded way to
view the world,
Gerry -- whether it's you, or it's John Sampas doing it. Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:33:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: ginsberg memorials
hey- did someone
say long ago that Brooklyn College was going to have a
memorial conference/reading
(?) for AG sometime soon? any further
information?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:56:45 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg On Bravo at this moment!!!
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 1 May 1997 15:50:37 -0400
from <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Groan! Brave usually repeats everything fifteen
times so there may be some hop
e. What are we talking about? "The Life & Times of AG?" I looked through the
movie guide last
night and found nothing. If anyone has
more info, please p os
t.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:09:28 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: kerouac releases and a question...
In-Reply-To:
<970501153910_1155276896@emout08.mail.aol.com>
rod
i did read all
the wordds buti was working fro memory & quickly from work.
didnt mean to
step on yr toes (or whatever), just trying to understand yr
complaints about
nouvelle francaise & book of blues peices (and wouldnt
presentation of
book of blues be penguin's decision & not sampas'?)
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:26:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan-Plymell
Comments: To:
blackj@bigmagic.com
In a message
dated 97-05-01 13:12:00 EDT, you write:
<< Charlie
Plymell, I love your reminiscences, and wonder when (or if you
have
already) written a book of them. But here's a slight correction. I may be
mistaken, but I could swear Al Aronowitz told
me he'd introduced Dylan to
Ginsberg in 1961-1962. (Aronowitz was the guy who did the great 1959
NY
POST series on the Beats, and later was their
rock pop columnist in the
Sixties, the guy who introduced Dylan to the
Beatles and gave the Beatles
their first hit of marijuana, etc.) We could all find out if somebody
emailed Al, who's considered himself the
Blacklisted Journalist for the last
two decades, at blackj@bigmagic.com.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
>>
Gerry: You
may be correct. Al (whom I've recently
been in touch with...and
fwd'd this post)
is credited with having introduced them. That seems early
for my
recollection in the Fall of '63 when I
played Dylan's "Blowing" for
him. He either
said or it was assumed by all present that he hadn't heard it.
It may be that he
hadn't heard that album, or it may be he was playing mum,
or hadn't heard
him sing? It's an interesting assertion and thanks for
calling my
attention to it...makes me wonder? No, I'm not writing any more
memiors, just on
the list.
C.Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:49:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg On Bravo at this moment!!!
At 04:56 PM
5/1/97 EDT, Bill Gargan wrote:
>Groan! Brave usually repeats everything fifteen
times
>so there may
be some hope. What are we talking about?
>"The
Life & Times of AG?" I looked
through the movie guide
>last night
and found nothing. If anyone has more
info,
>please post.
Hey Bill,
This looked to be
from '95 (at least that's what the
year at the end
of the credits said). I believe the
program was
"Literari" ( I know the spelling is incorrect,
but the program
name had some sort of twist to it) or
something along
these lines.
I only caught the
last 10 minutes, AG had a bad
case of
bronchitis and his voice seemed pretty
shot.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:14:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: For Michael Buchenroth
COWS
Look at cow faces
cattlemen
cruising the stockyards
the thing is
cows don't care
cows are queer
I saw a cow on
muscle beach
I once found a
cow magazine
with a cover of
cows black and white
hooked up to iron
milkers
Cow poetry in it
If you drink milk
before going
to bed you'll
wake up with a
bovine faced
hangover
Huncke stole a
cow
took it to the
city
on his back
Charles Plymell:
Michael is
building a website for me. Thank you. Nice birthday present.
http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:10:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Anstee vs. Nicosia, Heavyweight Bout
To Followers of
the Beat List:
Sunday morning (April 27) Rod Anstee
landed a couple of haymakers
(not to mention a
few nasty uppercuts) before I even knew we were in the
ring
together. OK, fellas, put some gloves on
me, I'm ready now. Consider
this Round Two:
Mr. Anstee's rhetoric is nothing but
recycled Sampas. I've lost
count of how many
Sampas supporters and paid spokesmen have come against
both Jan and me
with those same two dog-eared arguments:
1) Jan Kerouac had "enough"
money; she had no business trying to get
more by suing the
Sampases.
2) Gerald Nicosia supports Jan
Kerouac's suit merely because it is a
good career move
for Jack Kerouac's biographer.
Someone once explained the guiding
principle of Nazi propaganda
genius Josef
Goebbels this way: "If you repeat a lie enough times, people
will start to
believe it."
Let's look carefully at these 2 claims
of Mr. Anstee's (and Mr.
Sampas's):
1) Jan Kerouac insisted again and
again, at every public forum and
up until a week
before she was hospitalized in the final bout of her illness
(May, 1996), that
she did not sue to overthrow her grandmother's apparently
forged will just
to make money. In fact, she was deeply
offended by the
notion that money
was her principal motivation. In her
final interview, she
told Diane Jones
of Giorgio Moser's Italian film crew: "What I want to do
is, I don't want
to just get all the stuff that the Sampases have and keep
it for myself and
sell it off like they're doing. What I
want to do is put
it in a
museum."
Jan often said to me, and others:
"If ANYONE discovered that their
grandmother's
will was forged, and that they'd been cheated of their
rightful
inheritance, wouldn't ANYONE speak out against that, and try to
right the wrong,
if it were legally possible?" For
Jan, whose life had been
so deeply wounded
by the permanent absence of a father, getting back some
part of her
family heritage (which had been unfairly withheld from her) had
even more
poignance.
To say that Jan Kerouac "mismanaged"
her money is a red herring--one
somebody better
pour a little Worcestershire sauce on and swallow, before it
smells any worse.
Since when does the way one handles
one's money have any connection
to whether or not
one deserves to be cheated? Jack Kerouac
misspent a lot
of his own money
buying drinks for himself and Bowery bums.
Does that also
justify HIS being
cheated (of his intentions for final placement of his
archive)? At one point, Ann Charters was running around
the country waving
Jan Kerouac's
income statements in the face of every interviewer she could
find--a patent
invasion of privacy, if nothing else.
Does anyone ask Ann
Charters how much
money she earns, or how she spends her money?
Does anyone
ask the Sampases
how many trips a year to Greece they take with Jack
Kerouac's
money? Or how much money Nick Sampas
gambled away in the Poconos?
How dare Mr. Anstee say Jan Kerouac had
"far TOO MUCH money"? Does
he know how many
extra expenses Jan Kerouac had just because she was on life
support--the
fact, for instance, that she needed an aide to help with every
basic household
chore the last year and a half of her life?
Anstee would be
closer to the
mark if he suggested that the Sampas family has "far TOO MUCH
money."
Like a lot of people who've lived all
their lives on the edge of
total poverty,
Jan Kerouac had no idea how to "handle money." But she had a
huge heart, and
when she finally started getting good-sized royalty checks
(after Stella
Sampas's lawyers had fought three years to keep her from
getting a penny),
Jan ended up giving a lot of that money away to
boyfriends,
friends, and relatives, and sending presents all over the
country,
sometimes to people she had met only once or twice. It would
perhaps have been
more sensible for her to invest in real estate or put that
money into
CD's. I suppose Rod Anstee can use that
as evidence that Jan
"mishandled"
money. I see it as evidence that Jan
cared a lot more for
other people than
she cared for herself.
She had, in fact, lived so many years
WITHOUT NEEDING TO PAY INCOME
TAX that, once
she got a decent income, it never dawned on her to start
setting aside
money for taxes. She eventually dug
herself into a hole of
owing the IRS
something like 50 or 60 thousand dollars.
But in the last two years of her life,
as John Sampas found legal
loopholes to cut
down her income, and as both her legal and medical expenses
skyrocketed, she
tried hard to live on a budget and to make the most of what
she had. She hired one of the best financial managers
in northern
California to
handle her money for her--and he was so touched by this very
special, dying
woman that he offered to straighten out her huge fiscal mess
for less money a
year than most of us pay to get our tax return prepared.
I don't think Jan would want me to hide
this side of her life from
anyone; but I
fail to see how it is relevant, at all, to her attempt to
regain the
inheritance that she may have been deprived of by deliberate and
illegal design.
Or do you mean to say, Rod, that anyone
would be justified in
cheating YOU TOO
if we can prove that, at some point in your life, you
wasted some
money?
Funny--I've never heard that one used in
court to justify a robbery.
"Appeal to
emotions" they used to call it in rhetoric class.
Now as for the second, and apparently
weightier, accusation--that I
am only serving
myself, and that I am the only person who will benefit if I
win Jan's case:
My "real goal," Rod, is to
keep my promise to a dead woman: Jan
Kerouac. On several occasions, during the last two
years of her life, I
promised Jan
that--as God would help me--I would do everything in my power
to carry on her
quest, if she died before seeing her lawsuit go to trial.
Maybe promises to
the dead are meaningless to you, Mr. Anstee.
They aren't
to me, and they
weren't to Jack Kerouac, whom you profess to love.
And have you forgotten PAUL BLAKE, JR.,
dear Rod, whose life and
family would be
lifted out of dire poverty if we win in Florida? Not to
mention that, as
he has stated, a victory in Florida would make HIM feel as
if he had finally
"recaptured" part of his own family heritage. I fight for
him, the living,
too.
Beyond that, my "real goal"
is also to see Jack Kerouac's archive
preserved for
posterity--for the use of generations of scholars, critics,
biographers,
historians, translators, and cultural interpreters to come, as
long as the human
race manages to endure. It is the future
generations,
specifically, who
will benefit if I succeed in carrying out Jan Kerouac's
quest--as well as
American literature and America's cultural legacy.
I would think Mr. Anstee knows enough
about me by now (I stayed at
his house, after
all) to realize that self-promotion is hardly the foremost
goal in my
life. He might recall, for example, that
I care for an
86-year-old
mother who has been incapacitated by two strokes, and a
two-year-old
daughter adopted from a Chinese orphanage, and that both these
are far higher
priorities for me than "running the Kerouac Estate."
But let's say, for the sake of
argument, that I have just invented
this goal of
helping Jan Kerouac and saving Jack Kerouac's archive--in
order, as he
claims, simply to promote my own interests.
And let's also
suppose--since
he'll have to, for this theory to work--that Jan Kerouac was
such a stupid
woman that for three years of calling, writing, and spending
hundreds of hours
with me, she hadn't figured this out. If
all this is
true, then what,
exactly, am I gaining by this legal struggle, that has now
taken almost all
my time for the past ten months, emptied my bank account of
$7,000 in
executor's expenses that Mr. Lash refuses to pay me, and cost me
another $62,000
in unpaid legal bills?
Let me see--WHAT DO I STAND TO GAIN
FROM IT? Wonder of wonders,
let's imagine
that Gabrielle's will is declared invalid.
The Sampases
retain 1/3 of the
Kerouac Estate by virtue of a Florida dower's right, since
Jack was still
married to Stella when he died. That
dower's right is
incontrovertible--it
guarantees the Sampas family millions of dollars over
the next few
decades, till all the Kerouac copyrights expire. But now,
after Jan has
won, 1/3 of that estate belongs to Jan's 2 heirs, her
exhusband John
Lash and her half-brother David Bowers, and a full third
belongs to Paul
Blake, Jr., and his family of six, who just lost their home
near Sacramento.
And GERALD NICOSIA, HOW WILL HE BE
ENRICHED?
Jan Kerouac put a provision in her will
that I should earn a 10%
standard agent's
commission for any literary deals I negotiate or help to
consummate. This is money I have to work for. Recent advances on
unpublished
Kerouac books have been about $10,000--that means I earn $1,000
if I help put one
of these deals together. Five such deals
a year, a high
estimate, I
think, would add five thousand dollars a year to my income--not
a
make-it-or-break-it amount. It would
also mean time taken from my
writing, at a
point in my literary career when I may soon be able to write
my own
ticket. I am nearly finished with a
massive 30-year history of
Vietnam veteran
healing and readjustment called HOME TO WAR, which my editor
at Henry Holt
considers book-prize material. Would I
not be better served,
professionally,
to finish HOME TO WAR as quickly as possible, and then sign
a contract with
Holt for my next book?
Again, I think Mr. Anstee is being disingenuous
in pretending that
my goal is to
keep writing about Jack Kerouac. He
KNOWS better. Aside from
having become the
foremost authority (500 interviews in ten years) on the
Vietnam Veterans'
Movement, I have spent the past 20 years as an intimate
member of the Bay
Area literary community. I just edited a
collection of
Bob Kaufman's
poems that has been nominated for five literary prizes, and
Eileen Kaufman,
Bob's widow, has encouraged me to write a biography of
Kaufman. I have also thought seriously of a biography
of Jack Micheline,
another dear, old
friend--or a biography of my Chicago hero, Nelson Algren,
or of Jan
herself--for which I already have all the material I need, from
years of letters,
conversations, taped interviews, etc.
DO I REALLY NEED MORE GLORY AS JACK
KEROUAC'S BIOGRAPHER?
I now have two scrapbooks filled with
letters from around the world,
praising MEMORY
BABE as by far the greatest of the Kerouac biographies. The
letters keep
coming, despite the fact that Mr. Sampas (at times in collusion
with Ann
Charters) has succeeded in keeping me out of the last two big
public
Beat/Kerouac forums. Ann Charters, if
there is any doubt about her
role, was an
integral part of the 1995 NYU Kerouac Conference, from which
Jan and I were
both ejected by police after Jan politely asked for 5 minutes
to speak.
So perhaps if I remain in the saddle as
Jan's literary executor, I
can break the
blockade and get to speak again at a Kerouac/Beat conference.
There are a lot
of people who'd be glad of that besides me.
But from a
career
standpoint, it's hardly worth sacrificing years of my life in
tortuous legal
wrangling just to get to a speaker's platform.
Besides, despite the blockade, I still
get invited to speak publicly
even now--as some
of you may know who saw me on C-Span a couple of weeks ago.
Well, what about THE BIG
ENCHILADA? What if we succeed in selling
the Kerouac
archive to Stanford, Berkeley, Texas, or the New York Public
Library for a
cool million (the most any of those folks could afford)? The
Albuquerque court
would have to approve my 10% commission on an item that
big. Suppose they go ahead and award me 10% of
Jan's $333,333 share? Then
I walk away with
$33,000--enough to pay half my legal bills for the past ten
months.
Now perhaps Mr. Anstee would care to
tell us what HE stands to gain
if pieces of the
Kerouac archive are again put up for sale to collectors?
The rest of his charges can be disposed
of in a paragraph:
The threat?--it's obvious. John Sampas stopped (or more likely
slowed down)
sales of Kerouac material because Jan Kerouac put a spotlight
on him with her
lawsuit three years ago. Three years
ago, several Sampas
spokesmen, including
George Tobia, said Mr. Sampas was about to put all Jack
Kerouac's papers
in the New York Public Library. Three
years later, that
has not
happened. How many sold Kerouac
artifacts do you need before you
know what he
plans to do once there's no one left in his way? As for Paul
Blake, Jr., he
BEGAN (not "ended up") as a defendant through the ineptitude
of Jan's first
lawyer, Tom Brill. Brill screwed up so
badly the Florida
judge threw him
off the case. ASK HIM why he goofed on
that--I sure don't
know. In any case, Paul is seeking every possible
way now to become a
plaintiff,
including joining with me if I am put in charge of Jan Kerouac's
lawsuit by the
New Mexico appellate court. There is no
problem with
admitting as
evidence the crack handwriting analyst's report that Gabe's
signature is an
"obvious forgery."
"Complete and utter chaos" if I am
allowed to act as
Jan Kerouac's literary executor? I
hardly think so, Rod.
I won honors as a
writer and honors as a college professor and honors as an
editor. I run a tight ship--no need to fear. The funniest thing of all is
Mr. Anstee's fear
that as Jan's literary executor I won't hire Ann Charters
to edit Volume 2
of the SELECTED LETTERS. Mr. Anstee
complained to me for
years about the
sloppiness of Ann Charters' scholarship, and yet it now
appears he'll be
heartbroken not to see another volume of Kerouac's work
with her name on
it.
Not to worry, Rod. From what I hear, Ms. Charters has already
completed
assembling the Second Volume of
Kerouac's SELECTED LETTERS, and
it will surely
appear long before the legal appeals are over concerning the
Estate of Jan
Kerouac.
Thanks to the Beat-L readers for their
patience.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 21:06:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Hey, Anstee, wait for the bell!
Rod, May 1, 1997
I don't know what kind of fight you
think this is, but let's at
least play fair,
and by the Marquis of Queensbury rules.
You send me a huge
long list of
challenges at the moment when I'm about to board a plane for
Albuquerque to go
fight Sampas's latest legal attack on me, and then
ridicule me to
the Beat-List folk because you didn't get an instant reply.
I'll be happy to
take you all one-on-one (to change sport metaphors), but I
can't be in more
than one place at the same time. Even
Michael Jordan can't
do that.
You got your reply today. And there was at least one glaring LIE in
your letter, that
I was the only person who was going to benefit by the
winning of Jan's
lawsuit. What about Paul Blake, Jr., his
five kids, and
wife? Are they all ghosts? At some point, when they have to move their
trailor off their
neighbor's land, where are they supposed to live? Does
John Sampas give
a damn? Do you give a damn? Or are you just interested in
making me look
bad, like so many other people who want to get in Mr. S.'s
good graces?
I don't have the money to hire the
staff John Sampas does. I don't
have the
resources of Viking Penguin behind me, as he does, or someone like
Ann Charters
running interference for me. I AM HERE,
and I'm answering
every question at
the fastest rate I can, while taking care of my family too
(which to the
best of my knowledge John Sampas does not have to do). So
instead of this
perpetual ridiculing of Nicosia, how about asking why John
Sampas hasn't yet
appeared, either in person or through an officially
delegated
representative, to start answering questions the same way?
I'll play in any honest pick-up game
you guys want to organize, but
I'm tired of
playing where the refs only call "foul" against one side--mine.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:31:58 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: For Charles Plymell
Happy Birthday
Charles,
Here's a little
"Arcola Hotel" poem I wrote a number of years ago;
I figured you
could relate=97I was thinking about all those miles a
guy covers in a
life when any bed looks good. I was also thinking
of the miles and
hotels in "Last Of The Moccasins."
GRACE NOTES &
GATHERINGS
There is little
to see
between buildings
that lie in rows.
The street
surrenders a constant drone
of cars and
useless feelings.
Sometimes a
gunshot will sever the dark.
Somnambulic faces
fall from windows
through siren and
confusion.
And in the room
across the hall,
a young mother
comforts her baby;
giving us another
chance.
Richard
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:07:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's facts and questions
Dear Attila, May 1, 1997
I will attempt to answer and/or correct
your admirable effort to
create a basic
fact sheet on the Kerouac Kontroversy. I
follow your
paragraph order:
Jack not only mentioned Jan as his
daughter in letters, he told a
variety of people
that he knew she was his--including his nephew Paul. Paul
asked, "Why
can't I get to know my cousin Jan?"
Jack told him, "It's
Memere--she wants
it that way."
Gabrielle suffered her stroke in Sept.
1966, two months before Jack
married Stella Sampas. Gabe didn't want to go into a nursing
home--probably
the biggest
reason Jack married Stella. Also, of
course, who was going to
care for Jack,
now that Gabe couldn't? Jack died
OCTOBER 21, 1969.
There was one previous will of Jack
Kerouac's, made out in March,
1962. Jack left everything to his mother, but
stated that if she died
before him, his
estate should be divided into fourths: 1/4 to his sister and
her heirs; 1/4 to
St. Louis de France Parish; 1/4 to St. Joseph's Hospital
(which took care
of his family while his mother was giving birth to him
there); and 1/4
to Ste. Jeanne d'Arc Parish, where he had his First Confession.
Jack's association with Little Paul
goes back to when he was one
year old, says
Jack Kerouac in the letter to Paul Blake, Jr., Oct. 20, 1969,
which John Sampas
and his lawyer now acknowledge is a genuine Kerouac letter
(genuine enough
for them to want to protect the copyright in it). If you've
read Joan
Haverty's selection in WOMEN OF THE BEAT GENERATION, you know that
Jack delighted in
taking Little Paul out to the park and playing with him
when he was only
2-3 years old. And they hiked, made
poems together, ran
with the dogs,
played basketball, etc. throughout the Fifties when Jack and
his mother
periodically stayed with the Blakes in Rocky Mount, North
Carolina, and
then Orlando, Florida. By the time Jack
and Paul were
together again in
St. Petersburg in the 60's, they were already good buddies.
Here's the actual legal scoop on the
value of Jack's estate as
recorded at his
death. His assets (as told to the court
by Stella Kerouac)
were one uncashed
royalty check for $90.00, and "the value of residuals from
the sale of books
and related literary works," which was given as "one
dollar"--for
a grand total of $91.00! You may ask,
What about the house?
Well, I was
inclined to ask the same question, but the obvious answer is
that Jack had
most likely already put the house in his mother's name, so it
would not have
been part of his estate.
Well, sorry, got to go now. My wife's in bed and my two year old
daughter Wu Ji is
wandering the house by herself!
Will answer more points tomorrow.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:57:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Conaripub@AOL.COM
Subject: ERRATUM: Helen Adam / Women of the Beat
Generation
Comments: To:
POETICS@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu, ksp2@acsu.buffalo.edu
Comments: cc:
SchaabC@aol.com, Bozokitty2@aol.com
ERRATUM
Due to an
unfortunate combination of computer glitches and copy editor
confusion,
portions of the biographical sketch of Helen Adam in the Conari
Press title
"Women of the Beat Generation," that were drawn from the work of
Kristin
Prevallet, appeared without complete attribution. Ms. Prevallet
generously provided
us with her excellent research on Helen Adam and we
apologize for any
harm that might have occurred. Future printings will
restore the
original accurate acknowledgments.
Thank You,
Will Glennon
Publisher, Conari
Press
Brenda Knight
Author,
"Women of the Beat Generation"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:13:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Guy Norbury <GuyNorbury@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: May Day Blues
My
"friends" and I used a fallen tree in Central Park for our may
pole. It
was allot of
fun. Blessed be.
-Guy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"In jesting
guise, but ye are wise, who know what the jest is worth."
-I forget who
said it but I read this in Scott Cunningham's biography.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:23:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Tom Waits
Tony,
Here's a snip of some information I
posted to the Raindogs Tom Waits
List about
Patrick Humphries biography of Waits. If you haven't yet seen it
it's worth
tracking down.
The biography is "Small Change: a
Life of Tom Waits" by Patrick
Humphries.My
copy, which I picked up on a trip to London, UK is put out by
Omnubus Press in
1989 ISBN 0-7119-1741-8. Omnibus has a lot of rock bios out
that I'm not
familiar with and rock bios are often pretty insubstantial.
This one,
however, is worth getting despite the moans of others on the list.
Biography goes up to 1989 when he was
collaborating with Wilson on
"Black
Rider" production. Good selection of photos produced on glossy paper
as well as movie
shots.
Start and end of book have lists: List
of Toms, People tom Waits
would give floor
space to, Ten real books Tom Waits would enjoy reading,
(Manhole Covers
of Los Angeles), Ten real authors Tom Waits would welcome on
his guest list
(Ludwig Von Baldass), Some insults Tom Waits wouls relish
("Well,
maybe I could INITIAL it...." Tennessee Williams on being asked to
autograph a
drunks penis), and a discography.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 02:27:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Anstee vs. Nicosia, Heavyweight Bout
Mr. Nicosia--
>
Mr. Anstee's rhetoric is nothing but recycled Sampas. I've
>lost
>count of how
many Sampas supporters and paid spokesmen have come
>against
>both Jan and
me with those same two dog-eared arguments:
First off, I think you proved Mr. Anstee's
point by lumping him in a
category with a
man he has never even met. (I don't think you have, have
you Rod?)
I really doubt
Mr. Anstee is in league with the Stampas camp.
> Someone once explained the guiding
principle of Nazi
>propaganda
>genius Josef
Goebbels this way: "If you repeat a lie enough times,
>people
>will start to
believe it."
You will not win
too many "good people points" laying allusions to
Nazism. Although
i have never met the man, I really doubt Mr. Anstee is a
Nazi, nor is a
follower of their idiotic beliefs.
> My "real goal," Rod, is to
keep my promise to a dead woman:
>Jan
Kerouac. On several occasions, during
the last two years of her
life,
>I promised
Jan that--as God would help me--I would do everything in my
>power to
carry on her quest, if she died before seeing her lawsuit go to
>trial.
I admire your
fulfilling of a promise, I truly do. Whether you are doing
this for personal
gain, fulfilling a promise, or are just a great guy...I
don't care. The
end result of Jack kerouac's work being on display for
anyone to see is
what it is all about. I want that, I think everyone on
this list does.
It kills me to think of Kerouac's work hanging
framed on some rich
asshole's living
room wall for no one to see but himself. It is great
literary work and
should be viewed by all.
I DO think you may be chosing the wrong
approach though. You are making
too many enemies
too fast. If you want to be perceived as the "good guy",
as I'm sure you
do, (who doesn't?) then you would be best off not
mudslinging. This
Nicosia vs. Stampas thing has gotten worse than a
Presidential
election debate. Let the mudslinging end. The trial will
decide the
outcome. If the trial does not end as you would like
it...these things
happen. You tried your hardest. Win or lose...wouldn't
you rather be
respected for putting up a gentlemanly fight, than be
remembered as
just another mudslinger in the great Kerouac debate?
> DO I REALLY NEED MORE GLORY AS JACK
KEROUAC'S BIOGRAPHER?
> I now have two scrapbooks filled with
letters from around the
>world,
praising MEMORY BABE as by far the greatest of the Kerouac
>biographies.
As well you
should. It is a great book. I respect your work. I respect
what you are
trying to have done with Kerouac's estate. I just don't like
how it is all
happening.
Just my 2cents worth....
Dean Palmer--
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 03:10:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cig up your Butt
In a message
dated 97-04-30 12:55:25 EDT, you write:
<< Yeah,
like why would you bother having a beer unless it
changed something? Come to think of it, why do I drink so
much coffee unless in changes something? Hell, why bother
eating? >>
Hell, the only
thing eating seems to change is my waistline. Unfortunately
the rest of my
reality stays the same.
Donut Man
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 03:10:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: RE; Phil Chaput Rebuttal
In a message
dated 97-04-30 23:08:21 EDT, you write:
<< With a
cooler head
today, yours truly - Phil Chaput >>
Phil:
Hopefully the
bottom line for everybody is that the Kerouac Archives end up
in a public
institution as a collection because it is an incredible first
person account of
the history of the beat generation. I know that you have
always been a
strong supporter of that happening.
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 03:11:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why is there no hippie literature
In a message
dated 97-04-30 15:20:46 EDT, you write:
<< How
about Richard Brautigan? Though I don't like the labels, it seems his
work might fit in to what you call
"hippie literature."
>>
Don't you know
anything. Brautigan is a Beat! So is Tom
Robbins.
Stephen King is
not.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:35:41 +0200
Reply-To: Jean.ORY@hol.fr
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jean ORY <Jean.ORY@HOL.FR>
Organization: ORY
Jean
Subject: Ginsberg/Hendrix
I would like to know
if there is any quote of Allen Ginsberg about Jimi
Hendrix ?
Thank you
Jean Ory
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:35:42 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: [Fwd: Catching Up]Warning! Lengthy report
of theFilmore party. Of
interest only to beats who
consider hippies legitimate
descendants
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------27F35B36BAA
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Since I am goiung
to still be too busy for a couple more days, and since
a couple of you
asked, here is what I reported to Marie of the prankster
bus trip to rest
party. And BTW, Charlie, when Anne Marie checked the
printout of your
question whether she remembered that
sailor episode,
she shook her
head in the negative, but I did notice a kind of smug
smile runing over
her face... I do love your reason for memories, and
peace ccame to
share all of us.
leon
--------------27F35B36BAA
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline
Received: from
mbay69.cruzio.com by mail.cruzio.com id aa17807;
1 May 97 8:59 PDT
Message-ID:
<3368BD13.73F1@cruzio.com>
Date: Thu, 01 May
1997 08:56:03 -0700
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@cruzio.com>
Reply-To:
letabor@cruzio.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
country@sover.net
Subject: Catching
Up
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Good morning,
Got back from San
Francisco yesterday morning. Checked my mail, started
to answer and got
a call from my daughter who just returned from Cabo in
Mexico. The rest
of the day went quickly. I lied down to rest for a bit
yesterday early
evening and just got up. Now I am caught up on
everything.
Monday in the City
started out strange for me. I guess Anne Marie
expected me to
call before noon and she left thinking I was not coming!
She does not have
an answering machine on her phone, and mine was full
of messages! Then
when I got to the Filmore the bus just did not look he
same bus that was
"fingerpainted" that Sunday afternoon. It seemed
darker inside and
outside some fancy painting was
shellacked in some
glossy
preservative finish. If you didn't look that close though, the
overall look of
the bus pretty much the same from a distance, and even
though standing
inside felt almost shabby, not at all like the last time
I was inside of
it, it still felt like a magic moment, history was thick
in the air. Kesey
was being interviewed by Rubenstein, a somewhat
belittling
Chronicle Sports reporter. When I poked my
head into the
open door, Kesey
was telling him that he thought the Rock and Roll Hall
af Fame was a
better place for his bus, because the Smithsonian had a
bunch of dead
machines, I thought he said in the basement, but I could
have been wrong.
The party was hosted by the Hall of Fame and Kesey told
me that he
promised not to try to get anyone in. He did say to come back
by seven forty
five, so I went to see my Mission Street friends and
returned by
eight. Looked like a Hollywood celebrity crowd was arriving
and checking
their names off at the door. It seemed that there was no
way that I would
get in, but i decided to wait a bit. That Grateful Dead
phenomenon.
"I need a miracle" popped into my head, and lo and behold,
Johnn popped out
the door. He recognized me immediately and when I told
him that I
couldn't get in, he went back inside and returned with some
big shot lady,
and I was in! That itself put an end to the missing
connections all day.
It was great to reminisce, to be a part of the
festivities. John
and his girlfriend were very nice, it was a pleasure
to visit with
them. We took a picture with John's son and Mountain Girl.
She lives now in
Oregon "Why in Oregon?, because I have a boyfriend
there". I
think it was the huge guy decked out in Prankster regalia that
I saw there
later.It was nice to be remembered by all of them, to be
reminded of those
times when everythng was unveiling mysteries, but I
never really was
a part of the dayglow circus. Not that I didn't love to
see a circus. I
was just not running away with it. There was a time when
I provided
shelter for the pranksters and their bus at my Barn, but we
had not
maintained any contacts since then. Even though they remembered
me, and John was
ready to chperon me among all the luminaries, I decided
that I would be
more comfortable just mingling in the crowd. And that
was amzing fun.
People were high, the music was great, and tha dancing
was spirited.
Very much like in the old days, with a happening now feel
as well. It was
wonderful. Then I looked to my side and about five feet
from me was this
straight looking gentleman, with shortish hair (like
mine) and
conventional shirt and jacket. For some reason I visualized
James to be a
straight looking person, and his the jacket was dark like
he described, I
turned to him "James", "yes", "James Stauffer?"
"Leon?"
We both seemed to
feel not very surprised, there was a comfortable
friendly feeling. It was really nice to have such good
vibes going on.
James was
standing in place bobbing his head to the music, somewhat, and
I got drawn in by
the enthusiastic dancers more on the move. I have
dance waway with
my daughters' friends at raves, but didn't have as much
fun dancing away
for a very long time. Strangers were hugging gleefully
, openly without
proprietary attachments, it was absolutely wonderful.
The thing was going to end at eleven but went on
till after midnight.
James left early, because he had to got to work
early the next morning
(did I hear it it
right, could it be as a salesman in a clothing store
in a shopping
mall?). I hooked up again with John and his entourage,
reminisced some
more and if I had to sum up the feeling at the time I
would call it inspired,
with tongue hesitating in cheek a bit. The
nicest things
were to see a lot of younger people mingling in a visit
with the old
timers. There seemed to be a settled down, glad all this is
happening, that
we are here, the acid high type feelings connecting
everybody, but in
a down to earth kind of way. There was this very
excited, awed
exclamation "my god are these cracker jacks?" The young
lady who was
shaking some cracker jacks from a box into her friend's
palm, pulled up
the box "want some?" Bliss. Absolute surprise and
delight. Went for
a walk in the alley and found paradise lit up. Aaah.
Those contagious
blisses from long ago.Some of the dancing was angelic.
and I don't know
how to describe it. Now that I think about it, I
realize that a lot
of people would have ravaged the plentiful and
elegant
refreshments placed everywhere, rather than leave so much on the
trays. So I guess
the folks were comfortable because only the
comfortable ones
were there. When I had the Barn I never turned anyone
away because they
didn't have money for a ticket. I had a dozen
flashlights that
I would give out to make them do something, help park
cars for half an
hour to earn admission.
I wasn't ready
for sleep or the long drive home, so I went back to my
Mission friends
at the king of all shabiness, the Pratt hotel. As usual
we stayed up all
night and I wittnessed again the ins and outs of the
scrounging for
pleasures, keeping the sickness at bay, of the addicted.
Life in the now
without horizons to beyond the moment. Sheila is locked
up again, for
parole violation. Didn't meet her appoinments, maybe found
no other way to
get out of the predicament.
In the morning I
connected with Anne Marie. Looking more closely I see
signs of strains
and stresses. After initial uneasiness about the
misunderstandings
of yesterday, whatever they were about I am not that
sure, although I
have a feeling that Anne Marie might have also felt
disappointed that
she hadn't been invited to the party by Kesey. I
really don't know
any of that to be true. Mostly it seems to me that she
needs a more
comfortable place to live. Her room is very tiny and the
street outside
the window is a hangout for drinking and homeless
people.I do know
that we enjoyed visiting for the rest of the day. When
I left she was
sleeping peacefully.
This turned out
longer than I expected. Off to work now.
Hope you continue
to enjoy drawing etc.. Looking forward to hear from
you
Much love
leon
.-
--------------27F35B36BAA--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:50:39 +0900
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rastous The Reviewer
<rastous@LIGHT.IINET.NET.AU>
Subject: Refractions (long fiction)
Refractions
Guns slip into
holsters of slick leather, like cocks into greased and
nameless
arseholes. Butts carved from rich black ebony, inlaid with elegant
cameos of naked
boys, crafted from mother-of-pearl. Barrels worn smooth
from use, the
bluing worn from sights and muzzles. Holsters, simple flaps
of leather, not
the vulgar tie-downs used by those who merely kill. Random
images flash down
the corridors of time, lodging at intervals in the brain.
Rolled them up in
a sheet of oiled paper, to preserve them against the rust
of time - already
a fine patina of corrosion had formed on them. Memories
fade and flicker,
dim with age, burn out neuron like neuron, like talent.
Dream shadows,
black and white swirls of Freewheelin' Bob's weenie.
Typewriters
filled with shredded wheat, coffee beans roasted over a candle,
rivulets of
squalid semen flowing down from greedy urchins' mouths - some
old queen's come
the last hot food they taste. Open the soap ducts - Dutch
Schulzts's voice
calls from the 20's - cries for French Canadian Bean Soup
go unheeded. Dry
dust bellows from collapsing lungs, as cows push through
gaps in temporary
enclosure - are they too caged? Come dancing, who thinks
of these names?
As penance, David had to collect an hundred foreskins,
before he became
leader of the Israelites - he brought back two hundred
Philistine
prepuces, founding the Hebrew nation on dicks. Probably bit them
off, like the
pissy queen the gentiles always portrayed him as. Sling
straps break, a
penchant for all things cavalry ends a monarch's reign,
Russia decays in
a morass of serfdom. Garland's voice, sweet and sorrowful,
echoes from the
stereo - freed from the aged, bloated, drunk and drugged
body that came to
house it. Passed the taste for booze and pills on to her
daughter,
transferred the allegiance of gays from one generation to the next.
Pain trapped on
the sensitised cells of drink affected neurons - surfacing
only when
required, just in time to fuck all over again the object of hate,
the object of
love. Burning bushes give false advice, call for the
sacrifice of
children, ridicule their audience, then extinguish in a puff
of self-satisfied
smoke, smell of dead leaves, the whistle of trains.
Distracted by
interruptions, disturbed by random visitors who come and go,
clutching
carriers of Yiddish loaves, shiny discs and sipping sugared
caffeine.
McCarthyism rears its ugly head, and I am entreated to trust in
medications
prescribed and proscribed by street medics. Placental blood
stains the sheet
of calculations, then they are hurled from a window -
clocks stopping
at 8.15, fixed by the rapid division of an atom. Peroxided
hair settles into
place, framing the white face, red lips of a long dead
Goddess.
Distant - always
distant. Conversations held seemingly by semaphore
signals, stilted
and disjointed, halting. Ground zero impact - flesh boils
from the very
framework of human bodies, shadows are etched forever on
walls. We have
become destroyers of worlds, said Oppenheimer, daddy of the
all encompassing
death used twice. They bred - more ugly with each passing
generation, able
to fracture the every existence with their intensity....
Faces melting,
merging, flowing like warm plasticine, before they are
consumed by the
wall of flames. the very air itself burns, pulling the
oxygen from the
still breathing lungs. No other species systematically
tries to destroy
themselves, nor succeeds like us. An in built genetic flaw
- the altruistic
gene seems to have been eliminated from the DNA which
encodes our
future. the ultimate soul trap - buildings stand still, but the
occupants
vaporized. Neurotoxins, virii, haemotoxic poison cause death by
drowning in your
own blood. Germ warfare reared its ugly head during the
plague - wells
poisoned by corpses, bodies flung over the ramparts by
catapults, to
spread the lice born pestilence. Blankets impregnated with
smallpox distributed
to Indian and Aboriginal alike. even the common cold,
and syphilis were
used to expunge other races from their own homes. We are
a corrupt and
evil species, and we have systematically corrupted, polluted
and destroyed our
very living areas - even dumb animals do not shit where
they eat.
Rage - hate -
madness, these things fuel writing. No drug can adequately
synthesis these
emotions to the point that functional word pictures form,
ready to be
transcribed. Each page is a kind of petit mal, jerked into being.
Anal - truly one
of the more disturbing words to have entered modern usage.
People forget
that there are two separate phases of development - expulsion
and retention.
Why not use the terms "oral", "genital" or polymorphous
perverse" as
well - or are they not scatological enough? If all things are
reduced to shit,
then what is the purpose of living? What does it matter,
what ever you do,
you will die, and your body will return to the corruption
of matter from
which it sprang. Too late to salve the soul with mystic
unguents, magic
crystals, poison it with pills and booze. Corrupt, all is
shit, all shall
become shit again. It's the old 3/8 principal - most of the
shit is hidden by
a facade of friendship and trust, while an eddy of putrid
excreta
circulates beneath the exterior. To read is to seek an
understanding of
what is being read. Without understanding, it is
meaningless.
Understanding is not analysis - that is the vivisection of
words, the
tearing down of an idea into its component molecules, and
rebuilding it in
your own image. Doctor Dent's magic cure fixed Uncle Bill
over a decade ago
- now it's nothing stronger than tea & vodka. Gone is the
belt gripped
between the teeth - gone is the junk drawn up from a blackened
spoon, through
the gauze, into the eye-dropper. Replaced instead by
methadone, then
apomorphine. Replaced by a triple-bypass, a cracked hip.
New York, Texas,
Mexico, Tangiers, Paris, London all replaced by the small
town feel of
Lawrence, Kansas. Ian Sommerville replaced Kiki, replaced Joan
- all ultimately
replaced by James Grauerholtz. Jack died an alcoholic
recluse, died of
liver failure, like Billy Burroughs - Uncle Bill's son.
He wrote, too.
"Speed", it was called, seeing as he was addicted to
Benzedrine and
booze from birth. Died in a ditch - William didn't go to the
funeral. He had a
step daughter, too. Never heard what became of her after
Joan's death.
Jack's daughter became a junky whore - her book's in the
library. Keasey
was in & out of jails, mental institutions - acid and smack
and the Merry
Pranksters with Neal Cassady driving an old school-bus across
the 60's. Cassady
died of exposure, counting railway sleepers in the chill
of night. Paul
Bowles crouches in Tangiers, no phone, no desire for contact
from the outside
world. Sits there with his little pot of majoun (the basis
for Cronenberg's
Black Meat), hashish candy made from resin, almonds and
spice. Killed one
of his characters with it in "The Sheltering Sky". Jane
Bowles had one
stroke after another, aphasia clouded her mind, rumors that
she was poisoned
by their Arab housekeeper.
"Heir's
pistol kills wife - he denies playing William Tell" - "Evil spirit
shot Joan to be
_cause_". No dogs allowed - No dogs are loud - Know dogs
allowed - Know
dogs are loud - No dogs aloud - Know dogs aloud. Confessions
of an unredeemed
drug addict. Junkie, Junky. The characters spill over to
Queer, a yage
quest. Fucking around in a jungle, 1953, looking for a vine
that had the
potential to be the ultimate fix. Dragged suitcases of it back
to the States,
threatened to cut Peter up with a machete over it. In the
end, it just made
them so ill.
Cabra girls,
desperate to break free from the convent, talk loudly about
the unsafe sex they
have with their shaggy, hairy passing rough. Plastic
bags, hiding
cheap vodka, circulate from bag to bag, to be hidden and
consumed in an
orgiastic binge of release, culminating in drunken sex.
Cheap makeup and
perfume hide unflawed skin of youth, free from the
blemishes of age,
applied seemingly at random so as to resemble nothing
more than circus
clowns. They talk of going on to better things - it seems
that most burn
with the desire to be secretaries in law firms, for some
strange reason.
Yet to hear one say that she wishes to go on to Uni... only
on to the Austral
on Fridays. Austudy, thrush and grass seem to be de
rigeur to have,
though it seems that NSU will do in a pinch. What will
become of these
girls? What will they be like in five years time - for five
years is not that
great a time period.
But no sex is
truly safe - it creates its own little set of problems -
emotionally
turbulent, muddying the pools from which we drink. Causing
tensions and
frictions. Pervading feelings of worthlessness, episodes of
black
depressions, longings for release from a self created prison. Even
auto-eroticism,
the simple wank, does not dispel it.
One way street
this - no exchange. No trade, no barter. Words never come
free - Ginsberg
knew this. There is always a price to be paid - old men
sell their souls
for a strap-on, young men just grow old. Pointless,
futile, damaging.
It cannot go on like this. Vanished - no contact for
months. The only
thoughts seem to be those of return. Someone once wrote
that you can
never come home - it is never the same, and people change
whilst the
fixtures and fittings do not.
This is enough -
as Wyatt Earp allegedly said:
"It all ends
here".
rastous@light.iinet.net.au
http://light.iinet.net.au/~rastous/index.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:18:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: On The Road - UnCut
Does anyone know if there is a copy, or
the original manuscript of On The
Road? The one that Kerouac had to change to get it
published?
Thanks
-Bill
[ deadbeat@buffnet.net -
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
"the
punishment which the wise suffer who refuse to take part
in the government, is to live under the
government of worse men."
-- Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:46:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "JAY S. GERTZ"
<JGERTZ@UNCA.EDU>
Organization:
University of North Carolina at Asheville
Subject: More on dope
For those of you who may think dope and
booze are prerequisites for
Beathood, I'm
afraid you're missing some points. The open use of those
conscious
altering substances was part of the Beat rebellion against the staid
white
establishment. (As well as a regular social lubricant.) The same goes for
the more recent Hippy
epoch.
Many people are predisposed to addiction,
perhaps Jack and Neal were. We all
know that their
premature demise was a result of their abuse of alcohol and
drugs. Some might say Burroughs squandered years of
literary productivity
while strung out
on heroin.
Being Beat, hip, cool, or whatever, is a
state of being, not an artificially
induced frame of
mind. And I'm not condemning the use of drugs or alcohol,
either. I just
know that there are many of use who can no longer indulge (after
years of
repeatedly trying unsuccessfully), and others who shouldn't even tempt
themselves by
experimenting.
Many of the prior arguments regarding
legalizing drugs were flawed in one
regard.
Individual freedom is not marked by the absence of constraints. Freedom
comes from the
soul, through exercising the heart and mind, and for those that
have attained it,
no prison can hold them.
Kleb
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:58:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Guy Norbury <GuyNorbury@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: "HELP ELLEN!" (fwd)
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: misterz@ix.netcom.com (Mark Alan Zilberman)
To: GuyNorbury@aol.com
Date: 97-05-02
01:15:45 EDT
>Return-Path:
<timm@aaron.music.qc.edu>
>Date: Thu, 1
May 1997 15:40:23 -0400 (EDT)
>From:
Christine Timm <timm@aaron.music.qc.edu>
>X-Sender:
timm@aaron
>To:
misterz@ix.netcom.com
>Subject: Fwd:
"HELP ELLEN!" (fwd)
>
>
>
>----------
Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 1
May 1997 13:38:17 -0400 (EDT)
>From: GuyNorbury@aol.com
>To:
timm@aaron.music.qc.edu
>Subject: Fwd:
"HELP ELLEN!"
>
>
>---------------------
>Forwarded
message:
>Subj: Fwd: "HELP ELLEN!"
>Date: 97-04-30 11:16:17 EDT
>From: OLNYIAMGOD
>To: eli@netusa.net,Magnus831
>To: dannyboy81@earthlink.net,GuyNorbury
>To: s123@idt.net,HiCalConst
>To: trueone@tiac.net
>
>
>---------------------
>Forwarded
message:
>From: RACHELK@earth.goddard.edu (Spaceman Spiff)
>To: olnyiamgod@aol.com, arfnarf@aol.com, eac6891@is.nyu.edu,
>jt6859@cnsvax.albany.edu,
be82756@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu
>Date:
97-04-29 12:29:06 EDT
>
> This was sent out over our campus
e-mail. I think its a pretty
>easy form of
activisim that we can all participate in.
I did it and
>it only took
a minute. I think you should all do it
to. Pass the #
>on to people
and get them to call. DOWN WITH CORP.
AMERICA!!!!!
>love
>rachel
>
>
>
>>Hey
there-- I just received this email off the AIDS Ride listserv and
>>it took
me 90 seconds to do. It's touch tone voting-- to protest
>>Chrysler's
revocation of advertising off the coming out episode of
>>Ellen.
You call the 1-800 number, which is the Chrysler customer
>>service
center, press 1 for "current media and public relations
>>issues"--
then, press 2 to vote for the Ellen decision, listen to the
>>message
and press 1 to agree with their decision to withhold
>>advertising
from the episode and press 2 to disagree with it.
>>
>>It's
easy--please take a minute out of your day to stand up against
>>this
example of corporate cowardice and homophobia.
>
>Sara
>P.S. As you
all know those "people" of the right are very powerful, so
>please call
and forward this message to all of your friends and encourage
>them to call
too. Please don't be silent let Chrysler
know that we don't
>all agree
with those hurtful conservative, hateful religious right.
>
>
>>*****************************
>>I just
got an email from a friend of mine (who obviously doesnt know me
>>that
well-- only through a campus religious organization) urging me to
>>call
chrysler to show my support for their decison to revoke funding for
>>the show
"Ellen" because of the whole 'coming out' episode.
>>
>>It struck
me that it would be just as easy to use the number to show my
>>support
for "Ellen" (the phone line has been established so that the
>>company
can get a feel for what the public opinion is). And then i
>>thought
that if i passed this message along to others then they could
>>call as
well-- which whould hopefully cancel out some of the phone calls
>>generated
by my friend's email.
>>
>>The
number is 1(800) 992-1997. its toll free and only takes about two
>>minutes,
apparently. please call and pass on this email--this is an
>>opportunity
for activism that is going to make a difference-- chrysler
>>is
*asking* for us to voice our opinions. lets just make sure that we
>>have the
loudest voice.
>>
>
>>
>>my friend
closed his email with this biblical quote:
>>
>>Romans
12:9--Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
>>
>>to which
i can only say AMEN
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
@@@@@@@@@@
@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@
@@@
@@! @@! @@!
@@! !@@ @@!
@@! @@! @@@ @@!
@@@
@!! !!@ @!@
!!@ !@@!! @!!
@!!!:! @!@!!@! @!!
!@!
!!:
!!: !!: !:!
!!: !!: !!: :!! !!:
:
: : ::.: :
: : :: ::: : :
: :.::.: :
:.:
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:11:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens"
<shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why is there no hippie literature
In-Reply-To:
<970502031057_1521133693@emout07.mail.aol.com>
On Fri, 2 May
1997, Attila Gyenis wrote:
>
> Don't you
know anything. Brautigan is a Beat! So is
Tom Robbins.
> Stephen King
is not.
>
Okay. Okay.
Normally a list
lurker, with the exception of the one day I posted a
little wonder
about a vending machine experience and a quest for song lyrics.
The very day that
the list master reminded us to keep the list beat...
But someone said
it...my door has been opened.
Tom Robbins maybe
beat, maybe not...my point is...he wrote Jitterbug
Perfume which is
a book that definately put the spin in the
rama-lama-ding-dong
that is my life!
-Shannon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:38:31 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Why is there no hippie literature
Shannon L.
Stephens wrote:
> But someone
said it...my door has been opened.
>
> Tom Robbins
maybe beat, maybe not...my point is...he wrote Jitterbug
> Perfume
which is a book that definately put the spin in the
>
rama-lama-ding-dong that is my life!
>
> -Shannon
Dearest Shannon
the Lurker,
sounds like quite
a olfactory tornado. when your door was
opened i got
a whiff of your
spinning ramadan scent all the way over in the Kansas
Vortex and am now
looking for a wormhole from your door to mine.
now back to the
burroughs smelling thread everyone ...
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:39:23 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Saw Jack Kerouac at the grocery
store]
Received: from
challenge.sunflower.com (challenge.sunflower.com [24.124.0.1])
by services.midusa.net (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with SMTP id LAA07076
for <race@midusa.net>; Fri, 2 May
1997 11:35:11 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from
p133.sunflower.com by challenge.sunflower.com via SMTP
(950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI.AUTO)
for <race@midusa.net> id
LAA28063; Fri, 2 May 1997 11:39:14 -0500
Message-ID:
<336A173B.6C2D@sunflower.com>
Date: Fri, 02 May
1997 11:32:59 -0500
From: Patricia
Elliott <pelliott@sunflower.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
race@midusa.net
Subject: Re: Saw
Jack Kerouac at the grocery store
References:
<336A1529.3DD8@midusa.net>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
oh god what a
beautiful post? you should list it
p
RACE --- wrote:
>
> as i was
pumping five bucks
> into my 1974
> guzzler
> i gazed
across the avenue
> to see Jack
> jumping out
of the back
> of an ugly
green
> pickup truck
> with Vegas
plates
> and
> I quickly paid
for
> my gasoline
> and
> zoooomed
across
> to the
grocery market
> i got a
glimpse of him
> saw him
grabbing
> four cans of
spaghetti
> sauce at
99cents
> grabbed four
myself.
>
> then in the
frozen
> foods he was
a
> blur
> i grabbed
> green giant
broc & cauli
> green giant
corn
> food club
california mix
> and some
> azparagus
> for good
measure
>
> chased him
down
> and he threw
> three huge
potatoes at me
> which i
caught
> at 2.42
cents a pound
>
> lost him
then
> got my
lentils and Uncle Ben's
> cause i
liked the name
> better than
Minute Rice
> two bags of
sghatti noods
>
> and other
junk
> when i saw
him heading
> thru
> the checkout
stand
> i checked
out
> at $32.15
> almost
fainted at the
> bargain
> zooomed off
for
> cheap
cigarettes
> and caught
up with
> him
> at the House
of Sight and Sound
> trapped in a
CD case
> for $25.00
> but had to
pass
> and took
> Mimi and
Richard Farina
> for $16.00
> instead.....
>
> hope you're
having A Beautiful Day !!!
> things are
slowly drying up in
> the puddles
here.
>
> david
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:07:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Anstee, Nicosia, & Kerouac Estate
Fight
Dear Dean Palmer:
May 2, 1997
Thanks for your letter. I have no problem with honest criticism of
myself, which
your letter provides. In fact, I welcome
such criticism.
I dislike mudslinging as much as
you. But the fact is, the other
side (the Sampas
side) has been slinging mud at me NONSTOP for the past four
years, even
before Jan's lawsuit was filed. In the
fall of 1993, when Brad
Parker's little
Humanities Corporation invited me to speak in Lowell,
because the
official Lowell Kerouac Committee (backed by Sampas) had
consistently
ignored me, one of Sampas's buddies, Roger Brunelle, publicly
called me and
Brad Parker a "son of a bitch!"
What had Brad and I done that
was so awful we
merited being called a "son of a bitch" in public? Well, I
had dared to ask
my 20-year friend, Michael McClure, to announce that I
would be speaking
in Lowell the following night--so that Kerouac fans who
had come to
Lowell for Kerouac Week would know that I was in town. The
official Kerouac
Committee had done its best to black out our event
completely. After Mike McClure's indiscretion of
announcing Nicosia's
upcoming speech,
the Kerouac Committee refused to keep paying for his hotel
room at the
Lowell Hilton, and he was kicked out, with no place to rest
before returning
to California, so he had to come and sleep on Parker's floor.
You may think this story incredible,
but Brad Parker of Chelmsford,
Mass, will verify
every word of it.
Mr. Brunelle, by the way, has NEVER
APOLOGIZED to either me or
Parker for this
outrageous verbal assault.
It would take me fifty pages to list
each incident of mud slung at
me for the past
four years. Let me just take you up to
the most recent: my
day in court in
Albuquerque, this past Monday.
Mr. Rod Schlagel, John Lash's lawyer,
stands up before the judge and
tells him:
"Mr. Nicosia is not concerned about Jan Kerouac's Estate ... he
is only concerned
to gain prominence in the literary world"--and goes on and
on that my sole
motivation in all this is to attain glory for myself. He
never mentions
that I stood beside Jan again and again during the five years
when she was
critically ill, while Mr. Lash, her exhusband, never visited
her once during
this period.
Okay, you say, but Sampas is not
involved in Lash's legal action
against me (or so
says Sampas's lawyer, George Tobia).
The truth is, SAMPAS IS INTIMATELY
INVOLVED IN LASH'S ATTEMPT TO GET
ME THROWN OUT AS
JAN'S LITERARY EXECUTOR. Can I prove
this? Yes,
absolutely.
At one point, in the Albuquerque
action, Tom Staley, Director of the
Humanities
Research Center at University of Texas, Austin, sent an affidavit
to the probate
court. His affidavit stated that it
would be best for the
literary
community if Kerouac's papers were kept in one place. A short time
later, one of
Staley's superiors at the University of Texas got a call from
NONE OTHER THAN
JOHN SAMPAS! Sampas told the other
University of Texas
official that he
objected to Staley getting involved in the legal fight
between Lash and
Nicosia in Albuquerque. In fact, Sampas
may have violated
the law by
attempting to interfere in an ongoing legal action--an action he
is not legally
supposed to be a part of. We are looking
into that right now.
So okay, back to the mudslinging
issue. A couple of years ago, I
heard Ken Kesey
read a wonderful passage from, I think, SAILOR SONG. He
read a story
about this group of Underdogs, who were tired of all the
bullshit that was
being flung at them. So they create the
BAKATCHA!
movement; they
hire a plane, fill it with bullshit, and drop it in the faces
of those who
won't quit harassing them. After the
reading, Kesey said he
had come to adopt
the BAKATCHA! policy himself. If you
can't get people to
play nice, you
have to start flinging their bullshit right back at them.
So maybe Kesey's right, and maybe it's
time for all these folks who
keep saying
Nicosia is a "son of a bitch" and he's only in this to make
money, to know
that for every gob of mud they sling, a couple more are
coming back at
them.
By the way, I didn't call Anstee a
Nazi, and I don't think he is. I
referred to the
pernicious principle that the Nazis developed (or at least
refined) of
repeating lies until they're so common no one questions them.
And Rod certainly knew he was lying
when he said no one was going to
benefit from me
winning Jan's suit in Florida except myself.
He knows quite
well that Paul
Blake's family will benefit substantially (as, in fact, Jack
Kerouac himself
wanted) and he knows quite well that thousands of scholars
will benefit too.
As a matter of fact, Mr. Anstee and I
had what I thought was a
friendship for
over ten years, during which period--since he is a collector
and archivist--I
provided him with copies of all my documents pertaining to
Kerouac affairs,
and especially those that concerned Jan's lawsuit.
Moreover, Mr.
Anstee knows Mr. Sampas quite well, even if they have never
met in person
(which I believe they have).
To begin with, Mr. Anstee purchased
several items of Jack Kerouac's
from John Sampas
for his (Anstee's) personal collection.
Furthermore,
Anstee is best
friends with Jeffrey Weinberg, Sampas's former dealer. On
top of that,
Anstee was part of the 1994 NYU Beat conference, at which
Sampas spoke and
attacked me in front of hundreds of people.
He knows Mr.
Sampas's
arguments inside and out, maybe better than I do.
Please remember, that almost the same
bullshit was slung at Jan
Kerouac too, as
soon as she filed her lawsuit. Although
she was dying of
kidney failure,
they kept saying she was doing all this just for the money
(and Mr. Anstee
basically reiterates the same claim in suggesting she had
"far TOO
MUCH money"). When she died, I had
people calling me from the East
Coast, asking,
"How could she have died at 44? We
heard she was just FAKING
about the kidney
failure." You want to take a guess
where those rumors
originated?
I never heard Mr. Anstee raise his
voice once about the mud that was
slung at either
me or Jan, all those years.
You say "Let the mudslinging
end." Amen. But it's going to have to
end with those
that began it, and are still doing it.
Otherwise I'm taking
Kesey's advice:
every last drop of the smelly stuff is going BAKATCHA!
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:09:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On The Road - UnCut
Yes, Bill, and
from what I hear there may even be more than one as Jack had
to re-write and
re-write (contrary to myth) in order to get OTR published.
I saw one of the
scrolls at the Traveling Whitney exhibit when it passed thru
San
Francisco. It was very old and brittle,
very brown with little pieces
cracked off. I
read what was exposed, probably about the first page worth.
Jack used real first names such as Neal
etc. I was laughing because he
describes how
Neal came to the door "naked having just finished fucking his
wife" or
something, but the word "fuck" was definately written on the page.
No wonder the publishers in the early '50's
wouldn't publish it as is!
At the time I was
very glad the people in charge of Kerouac's estate had
cooperated in the
exhibition, but looking back on it now in light of "The
Controversy",
I wonder if Jan Kerouac and Gerry Nicosia hadn't been making
such a stink all
these years I would have ever gotten to see it at all, or if
in the words of
someone else, it might be today hanging on some rich guy's
wall...
Hey, Jeffrey, can
you tell us if the original scroll was one of the items
that John Sampas
put up for sale?
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:24:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: On The Road - UnCut
Comments: To:
Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970502130928_1987595854@emout15.mail.aol.com>
On Fri, 2 May
1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:
> I saw one of
the scrolls at the Traveling Whitney exhibit when it passed thru
> San
Francisco. It was very old and brittle,
very brown with little pieces
> cracked off.
I read what was exposed, probably about the first page worth.
The original
quesiton about OTR being available is something I've been
wanting to know,
too. There really ought to be a movement to preserve these
texts digitally
-- I mean, little pieces cracking off? Is anyone doing
_anything_ to
preserve it? And putting it in a public insitition or museum
isn't good
enough, sorry. It's the 90s -- all these texts should be part of
Project Gutenberg
(http://www.promo.net/pg/), typed up in plain vanilla
ASCII and
uploaded to the Net, to propagate on Unix servers forever.
I heard there was
absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR. I want to
use the Cornix
web applet (http://www.halcyon.com/chigh/corndemo.html) on
said ASCII file
of OTR to view it word-at-a-time on giant screens. When
people talk about
the Kerouac controversy and letting the works be together
in one place--in
the community of scholars etc.--_this_ is what I think of,
not a university
library somewhere (though of course, all the physical
artifacts will
and should be together somewhere--it's just that for me, the
data itself will
be much more useful).
> Jack used real first names such as Neal
etc. I was laughing because he
> describes
how Neal came to the door "naked having just finished fucking his
> wife"
or something, but the word "fuck" was definately written on the page.
> No wonder the publishers in the early '50's
wouldn't publish it as is!
Wow. All I can
say is wow. I want to read this!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:00:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: On the Road - UnCut
Dear Jerry Cimino
& Michael Stutz:
Regarding the argument that the ON THE
ROAD scroll should not only
be preserved but
also digitalized, Jan and I were saying that for years!
The problem: Sampas still owns it.
And yes, Jerry, he did have it up for
sale. I don't know if Jeffrey
Weinberg was
involved in the following offer.
But at one point, Tommy Goldwasser, a
real high-end San Francisco
literary dealer,
told printer and Kerouac collector Norm Davis: "I can get
you the ON THE
ROAD scroll for a million dollars."
Davis laughed: "Are you
kidding?"
Goldwasser said: "No."
Davis said, "Well, Tommy, I don't
have a million bucks." End of
conversation.
Sampas never sold it to either the New
York Public Library or the
Whitney, though
he allowed both of them to exhibit it for a few months in a
glass case--which
was good PR for Sampas, and suggested that he really was
going to place it
permanently in some library.
Only he hasn't. As a matter of fact, Jan and I asked New York
Public librarian
Rodney Phillips why he didn't try to digitalize it, or
otherwise
preserve the crumbling scroll, while he had temporary possession
of it.
Phillips answered that, one, it would
cost a lot of money to do
this, and the
NYPL wasn't going to spend a lot of money on something they
didn't own. Number two, the thing is so fragile that if
the NYPL guys had
tried to unroll
it or whatever, it might well have fallen apart, and they
would have had a
lawsuit from Sampas for injuring his property.
I.e., the
liability to the
library was too great to do anything with it if they didn't
actually own it.
Phillips did say that if the library
had actual ownership, they
would undertake
to preserve it right away.
We asked Phillips why he didn't just
buy it from Sampas. Phillips
said Sampas had
asked him to pay $400,000 for it, and the NYPL couldn't
afford that kind
of price for a single item.
If I've got any of this wrong, I invite
John Sampas or anyone else
to provide
corrections. This is all true, to the
best of my knowledge and
memory (which I
do not pretend are infallible).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:09:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's questions con'd -- Kerouac
Estate Fight
OK, Attila, I'm back, and want to help
further your effort to put
together a long
fact sheet on the whole Kerouac Estate Fight.
(And by the way, since I get accused of
mudslinging and hating
everyone, let me
say that your "Kerouac Kontroversy" looked to me like an
honest attempt to
put down what you know. I'm attempting
to flesh out your
points and in
some cases correct them. I don't pose as
infallible--I'm not
the Pope--and I
welcome people correcting me too.)
Again, I'm moving down your list,
paragraph by paragraph (now on
page 2):
RE: Jan's lawsuit. No, there is no implication that Gabrielle's
will was forged
by Stella. At least I never said
this. This will take
extensive
analysis of various people's handwritings, and the forger, if
there is one, may
never be known.
You're right: Jan stood to gain at most
1/3 of Jack Kerouac's
estate. Paul Blake, Jr., stands to get one third
also. The reason is that
1/3 goes to the
Sampas family forever, incontrovertibly, because of a
Florida dower's
right that gives the widow 1/3 even if she is disinherited,
as Stella was.
John Sampas cannot claim to be literary
executor for Jack Kerouac.
Jack Kerouac's
executor (or personal representative) was, by his own wishes,
Citizens National
Bank of St. Petersburg. John has been
made literary
executor for the
Estate of Stella Sampas Kerouac. If he
claims otherwise,
I'd like to know
what legal papers certify his claim.
Next: John Lash's fight with me--which
I explained somewhat in last
night's post:
Jan Kerouac's exhusband, John Lash,
claims his sister Debra (not he)
heard Jan's
deathbed statement to the effect of: "Please dismiss the
lawsuit--let the
Sampases have everything." This
claim has been
contradicted by
every single medical person who attended her at Lovelace
Hospital just
before her death. All of them say that
Jan elected to have a
very risky
surgery (risky because of her bloodclotting problems, inherited
from Jack)
because it was the only way she could get strong enough again to
keep fighting the
Sampases, to keep fighting for Jack's papers.
She said
this up to the
point of going under anesthesia, and she was never coherent
again after
surgery. She lived after surgery for
less than 24 hours,
bleeding
profusely, heavily sedated with morphine.
There are sworn
affidavits to
this effect.
As I said last nite, it is Lash who has
motioned the court for the
right to get rid
of me as Jan's literary executor, not me who has "sued"
him. His principal beef with me is that I want to
continue Jan's lawsuit,
as she asked me
to, and he wants to dismiss it, as part of a deal he made
with John Sampas
last summer.
As for Sampas selling off part of JK's
archives, it is beyond
"alleging." I have in my possession one of the sales
catalogues, offering
to sell pieces of
the archive by VIsa or Mastercard.
Jeffrey Weinberg, his
former dealer,
admits to having sold hundreds of items.
All sorts of people
(dealers and
collectors) around the country have testified to having bought
and/or having
been offered significant items from the archive--including
manuscripts. Many of these people have showed me the items
they bought.
Johnny Depp's
brother Dan Depp (who runs a bookstore in Santa Cruz)
described JD's
visit with Sampas and the items he bought--more than just the
raincoat, by the
way. I believe Weinberg has photos of
Sampas and Depp
together.
As for Jack's desires, he showed all
his close friends--such as
Stanley
Twardowicz, for example--the careful files he had kept of all his
writings,
correspondence, etc., and talked of his desire to have it all
preserved. Stanley even told Jack, "Why don't you
put some of it in the
Northport Public
Library?" so Kerouac actually DONATED THE COMPLETE
MANUSCRIPT OF THE
TOWN AND THE CITY TO THE NORTHPORT PUBLIC LIBRARY, where
it is today.
Kerouac wrote John Clellon Holmes in June,
1962, in a letter I have
in my possession,
that he wanted his files preserved as "a goldmine of
information for
scholars." Earlier, he had told
journalist and friend Al
Aronowitz that
"someday they're going to write biographies about me, just
like
Hemingway," and he showed Al his files, saying the biographers would
need to use those
to fully understand him.
At the very end of his life, Jack
Kerouac needed money desperately,
but he refused a
big deal from Gotham Book Mart for all his papers. (Gotham
deals primarily
with collectors.) Instead, he sold his
letters from Allen
Ginsberg to the
University of Texas, and his letters from Ginsberg to
Columbia
University. JK never sold any part of
his archive to private
collectors--though
some of it was stolen from his bedroom and did get on the
collectors'
market.
Again, if Mr. Sampas has contrary
information, I'd like to see/hear
about it.
The Kerouac Estate is worth far more
than $1 million. Right now,
Mr. Sampas could
accept $1 million offers from the Bancroft, the NY Public,
Stanford, and
probably a few other libraries JUST FOR KEROUAC'S PAPERS. The
paintings and
other artwork could probably bring another million dollars.
And the house in
Florida and its furnishings could probably bring a third
million. (By the way, Jan wanted that house turned
into a museum, or at
least have the
furnishings in it, including JK's desk and typewriter, as
well as his
clothing, put into a museum to recreate his work space, etc.)
None of this
takes into account the potential movie deals for millions of
dollars on all of
Jack's books, plus the steady stream of royalties (about
$200,000 a year)
that the book sales generate; plus all the "bonuses" like
the $10,000 the
Gap paid for Jack's image wearing khakis.
All from an estate that was legally
valued at $91 when Jack died!
You ask: "Who should get all this
money?" Well I'd vote for Paul
Blake, Jr.,
Jack's beloved nephew, getting at least some part of it. Paul,
absolutely
poverty-stricken, just lost his home and has his family living in
a trailor on a
neighbor's land.
OK: let's deal with Jan's money, as
this keeps coming up over and
over. Federal copyright law said that when one of
Kerouac's books hit the
28-year renewal
period, the living child should come in for 50%. Kerouac's
first book
renewed in 1978, but the Sampases held Jan off from getting any
of this money
(with various legal maneuvers) until the beginning of 1986.
Jan's financial manager told me
this: From 1986 thru 1988, her
income averaged
around $17,000 a year. Then it jumped to
about $33,000 for
the next three or
four years; and then in 1993 it jumped to over $100,000.
That was her best
year, because a television company had bought television
rights to ON THE
ROAD for a large sum, and she got half of it.
1994 and
1995 were equally
good years, with Kerouac's works taking off mightily, and
her income
averaging around $100,000. In late 1995,
however, John Sampas
cut off her
foreign royalties (by another legal maneuver, which Jan's lawyer
thought
questionable, but never had time to contest), and her income dropped
by about
$20,000. In the last months, as Jan was
dying, Sampas also figured
out other ways to
cut down Jan's income, such as instructing agent Sterling
Lord to stop
paying her any royalties from VISIONS OF CODY because 1/3 of
the book (the
part that had been published by New Directions in 1959 or
1960) had fallen
into public domain.
Remember, as a single person with no
dependents, she had a huge tax
liability on all
this. And remember, too, that she often
needed to hire
helpers, drivers,
etc. because of her own physical disability.
She always
had significant
medical costs (dialysis fluids, tests, specialists, etc.),
even though basic
doctor care was provided by the kidney dialysis program at
Lovelace Hospital
at a reasonable cost. And the last two+
years of her
life, she was
also eaten up by mounting legal costs, probably to the tune of
$30 or $40
thousand.
More later. Off to see mom at the nursing home. As I mentioned
somewhere, she
just had a second stroke and now can't walk at all--it breaks
my heart. When she could, she attended every
Kerouac/Beat event that came
up, as many of
you remember.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:31:12 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: More on dope
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 2 May 1997 11:46:32 -0400
from <JGERTZ@UNCA.EDU>
Isn't it pretty
to think so!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:41:03 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: On The Road - UnCut
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 2 May 1997 13:24:52 -0400
from <stutz@DSL.ORG>
I had the
pleasure of touring the Whitney with Allen Ginsberg one
evening. He pointed out to me that the reason the
corner of the
manuscript was
damaged was because Lucien Carr's dog chewed it up. An
interesting
literary footnote.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:59:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
In-Reply-To:
<199705021800.LAA17030@norway.it.earthlink.net>
On Fri, 2 May
1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> Only he hasn't. As a matter of fact, Jan and I asked New York
> Public
librarian Rodney Phillips why he didn't try to digitalize it, or
> otherwise
preserve the crumbling scroll, while he had temporary possession
> of it.
> Phillips answered that, one, it would
cost a lot of money to do
> this, and
the NYPL wasn't going to spend a lot of money on something they
> didn't
own. Number two, the thing is so fragile
that if the NYPL guys had
> tried to
unroll it or whatever, it might well have fallen apart, and they
> would have
had a lawsuit from Sampas for injuring his property. I.e., the
> liability to
the library was too great to do anything with it if they didn't
> actually own
it.
> Phillips did say that if the library
had actual ownership, they
> would
undertake to preserve it right away.
So in other
words, nobody has a copy of the text of the "real" version of
_On The Road_,
and the original ~50-year-old source is crumbling away in
somebody's
_basement_, brought out a couple times a decade to be put on
display in a
glass cage?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 15:37:45 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Jake Barnes is beat (was "More on
dope")
Someone wrote:
>
>Isn't it
pretty to think so!
>
Thanks, Jake
Barnes. If it's alcohol, surely Lady
Brett would think so....
Now, speaking of
Jake Barnes, I would say he IS beat. In
fact, I think the
post-war
disillusioned crowd (the lost generation) is the precursor for the
beats. They, too, were fed up with life and the
illusion of "how things are"
and its failure
to match up to the dream we all live for.
The difference is
that the lost
generation didn't see--couldn't see, perhaps--that there was
something to
reach for, as I think the beats did see.
The lost generation was
disillusioned,
and that's it. The beats were
disillusioned, but wouldn't let go
of the desire to
find something better.
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 15:53:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
Quite apart from
anything else, publishing this version as it was written
would be a
publishing goldmine (not least because the estate could then
claim another 50
years copyright, as the Joyce and Lawrence estates have
done). But
usually the estates wait until it's about to go into the publc
domain.
Small point to
Gerry Nicosia - how ccome one third of VOC can slip into
public domain if
it was published in the 50's. Surely New Directions, which
after all is
still a very fine active publisher, would have renewed the
copyright after
28?
Nick W-W
>
>So in other
words, nobody has a copy of the text of the "real" version of
>_On The
Road_, and the original ~50-year-old source is crumbling away in
>somebody's
_basement_, brought out a couple times a decade to be put on
>display in a
glass cage?
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 15:24:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: On the Road - Uncut
Reply to Nick
Weir-Williams:
Question: how come the New Directions
VISIONS OF CODY slipped into
the public
domain?
Answer: It was actually published 1960;
the year for renewal was
1988. It was not up to ND to renew it, but up to
Stella Sampas Kerouac and
the attorneys for
her family, as well as their agent, Sterling Lord. They
just didn't bother
renewing it; they also didn't bother with 7 other books
of Kerouac's,
which are now in public domain.
Starting in 1990, after Stella's death,
the only person who could
legally renew the
copyright on Jack Kerouac's books was Jan Kerouac. But
neither the
Sampases, their attorneys, nor Sterling Lord informed Jan of
this fact, and
consequently BIG SUR (which was up for renewal that year)
also fell into
public domain. By 1993, Jan had learned
through her friend
Aram Saroyan of
her sole right to renew her father's copyrights, and she
began renewing
them, starting with DESOLATION ANGELS, in her name alone. I
believe she got
as far as VANITY OF DULUOZ before she died.
The Sampas
family, however,
insist that those books are still half theirs, despite the
fact that the
copyright registration in them (including VISIONS OF GERARD
and SATORI IN
PARIS) reads: "Copyright renewal by Jan Kerouac." As Jan's
literary
executor, I now retain sole right to authorize reprints of those
four books in the
United States, though I expect the Sampas family will try
to contest me on
this, as they contested Jan.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:28:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: On the Road - Uncut
In-Reply-To:
<199705022224.PAA20162@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
On Fri, 2 May
1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> They just
didn't bother renewing it; they also didn't bother with 7 other
> books of
Kerouac's, which are now in public domain.
Gerald, do you
have a list of these books? Getting these digitized and on
the net would be
a great start in preserving the Kerouac archive.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:50:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road - Uncut
There's a very
strange by-product of the GATT free trade agreement signed a
year or two back
regarding literary copyrights. It's too complicated to
bother the list
with, but basically for a limited time anyone who failed to
register or renew
a copyright can now go and do so, and get copyright
protection for
the full-term they would have got if they'd done it properly.
Library of
Congress could advise in detail. As Literary Executor I would
have thought this
could be done by you.
Nick W-W
>Reply to Nick
Weir-Williams:
> Question: how come the New Directions
VISIONS OF CODY slipped into
>the public
domain?
> Answer: It was actually published 1960;
the year for renewal was
>1988. It was not up to ND to renew it, but up to
Stella Sampas Kerouac and
>the attorneys
for her family, as well as their agent, Sterling Lord. They
>just didn't
bother renewing it; they also didn't bother with 7 other books
>of Kerouac's,
which are now in public domain.
> Starting in 1990, after Stella's death,
the only person who could
>legally renew
the copyright on Jack Kerouac's books was Jan Kerouac. But
>neither the
Sampases, their attorneys, nor Sterling Lord informed Jan of
>this fact,
and consequently BIG SUR (which was up for renewal that year)
>also fell
into public domain. By 1993, Jan had
learned through her friend
>Aram Saroyan
of her sole right to renew her father's copyrights, and she
>began
renewing them, starting with DESOLATION ANGELS, in her name alone. I
>believe she
got as far as VANITY OF DULUOZ before she died.
The Sampas
>family,
however, insist that those books are still half theirs, despite the
>fact that the
copyright registration in them (including VISIONS OF GERARD
>and SATORI IN
PARIS) reads: "Copyright renewal by Jan Kerouac." As Jan's
>literary
executor, I now retain sole right to authorize reprints of those
>four books in
the United States, though I expect the Sampas family will try
>to contest me
on this, as they contested Jan.
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:41:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: More on dope
Blowing in the
wind or pissing in the wind?
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:07:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Public Domain
This means that
these books that are in the public domain can be posted on
the internet.
It is too bad
that Paul Blake cannot get royalties for them, but as they
are in the public
domain, someone ought to get busy and get them up.
How about a
beat-l ftp site?
What books are in
the public domain?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 20:07:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Charles Plymell
Richard:
Thanks for the
poem. It is helping inspire me to finish a long manuscript
that dissolves
Apocalypse Rose and Forever Wider into one and goes beyond. It
is to be a
reflection on the age of Apostasy X.
After hearing on the list
the repitition of
the song losing my religion...that's me on the corner, I
decided last
night "Robbing the Pillars" a term used in coal mining as they
would knock down
the supports while retreating from the cave.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 20:37:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences
of Jack Kerouac
Coming soon from
Upstart Crow Publishing:
Looking For Jack:
The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
by Paul A. Maher
Jr.
This will be
published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.
This will be
available by reservation only.
More info is
forthcoming.....
It is not so much
as a dry, textual analysis of Kerouac's works in an
academic vein but
instead, a celebration of Jack Kerouac and his
appreciation for
many works of literature and its manifestation through much
of his work. The
main focus will be obvious influences and also, with a look
at letters and
journals, his awareness as a reader and writer. E-mail
privately to be
informed at a later date. This will be the last posting here.
Also...Vol. I,
No. 2 of The Kerouac Quarterly is in the editorial stage.
Thanks....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:31:04 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: The Literary
Influences of Jack Kerouac
PAM wrote:
>
> Coming soon
from Upstart Crow Publishing:
>
> Looking For
Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
> by Paul A.
Maher Jr.
>
> This will be
published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.
> This will be
available by reservation only.
> More info is
forthcoming.....
>
> It is not so
much as a dry, textual analysis of Kerouac's works in an
> academic
vein but instead, a celebration of Jack Kerouac and his
> appreciation
for many works of literature and its manifestation through much
> of his work.
The main focus will be obvious influences and also, with a look
> at letters
and journals, his awareness as a reader and writer. E-mail
> privately to
be informed at a later date. This will be the last posting here.
> Also...Vol.
I, No. 2 of The Kerouac Quarterly is in the editorial stage.
> Thanks....
Hi,
i've seen a few
references to this Kerouac Quarterly thing and i was
wondering if you
could tell me a bit more about it. since
i'm on
disability with a
conservater, i don't know whether i can convince him
to cover
subscription rates and all that, but i'd like to get some
information just
in case.
i just sat today
reading through a poem i wrote years ago called
Mississippi which
goes on for around 40 pages through lots of things
(excerpts from it
were on Beat-L) Pooh and the feminists and Angel from
EBA's etc.
(although i think they may be altered a bit from the original
stream - a cut up
i guess technically) anyway ... the first words are "I
first met Jack
Kerouac in Hanover New Hampshire ... not long after i
finished it, i
wrote the thing about Jack in the grocery store today and
then did the
Exploding Text poem tribute thing off of On Burroughs Work
and just when it
sounded as though the day would wind down your message
hit the screen
....
and now i'm
wondering about this Kerouac Quarterly thing .... i guess
there is always
something to wonder about.
any info you can
send my way would be appreciated
sincerely,
david rhaesa
salina, kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:52:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mitchell Smith
<WordKicks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
Several years
ago, I saw an article on the 82 Naropa K fest and it showed
Gerard Malanga
photographing the scroll--unrolling it, recording the whole
thing. Does
anyone (esp. Gerry) know anything about this project?
Mitchell Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:50:18 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"More on dope"@cruzio.com
JAY S. GERTZ
wrote:
> Many of the prior arguments regarding
legalizing drugs were flawed in one
> regard.
Individual freedom is not marked by the absence of constraints.
Would you mind
explaining what you are saying here?
Freedom
> comes from
the soul, through exercising the heart and mind, and for those that
> have
attained it, no prison can hold them.
Knowing that, and
knowing even furthermore that the law has no power to
stop me from
exercising the freedom and power of my soul, has led me to
not capitulate
the integrity of my spirit to the bully power of legal
restraints. Does
that mean that there is a flaw in my belief that the
government has no
business, let alone legitimate rights, to dictate
what substances I
use to nourish my consciousness? Are you saying there
is a flaw in my
protest of the horrible punishment the governmewnt has
meted out to me
and continues as we speak to mete out unspeakable
horrors to
countless individuals for exploring drugs?
Are you saying
that because the government has no power to imprison my
spirit, that it
is therefore ok for it to imprison my body?
It is your kind
of verbiage that is causing untold harm to people. At
the very least I
would hope you would try to explain a bit more your
thinking here.
Thank you.
leon
> Kleb
> .-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 20:47:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's questions, final chapter
Dear Attila, May 2, 1997
You may have picked up a booboo in my
last installment. I wrote
that Jack Kerouac
sold his Ginsberg letters to the University of Texas and
his Ginsberg
letters to Columbia University--which makes no sense. I meant
to write, that he
sold his BURROUGHS letters to Columbia University.
OK, now for the rest of your questions:
Another daughter? The daughter of Mary Carney and Jack? Judy
Machado? I've heard this claim second hand, mostly
from Dean Contover of
the Lowell
Kerouac Committee. I have no knowledge
to disprove her, but I
certainly never
came across anything that would suggest it was true. I'd
like to know
more. For instance, did Mary Carney ever
tell Jack that she
had his
child? If she did, then it would puzzle
me that, after reading more
than 2,000 of
Kerouac's letters (many of which are in my archive in Lowell),
I never saw him
mention this daughter once. On the other
hand, he did
mention Jan quite
a bit in his letters. I also wonder why
she didn't come
forward before?
According to Dean, the only answer is a
DNA test, and it might be
possible, since
John Sampas has in his possession Jack's famous page where
he (Kerouac)
spilled his own blood on paper to write "The Blood of the Poet"
in his own
gore. A DNA test could presumably be
done from that blood
sample. If I ever get a say in the disposition of the
archive, I'd vote for
letting Judy have
this test conducted. What does Mr. Sampas say?
Paul Blake, Jr., believes his
grandmother would not have
disinherited
him. He is upset that Stella did not
notify him of his
grandmother's
death till months after the fact; nor did Stella ever send him
a copy of his
grandmother's will. He would like to see
his Uncle Jack's
archive preserved
in a library, and he signed a letter of intention with Jan
Kerouac to do
just that, if they succeeded in wresting a controlling
interest in the
archive away from the Sampas family in court.
He loves his
family dearly,
has worked for a living as a carpenter all his life, and has
no greed about
making money off the archive, though certainly he could use
his 1/3 interest
to finally provide some financial security for his family
(including 5
kids).
Paul's life is quite precarious, and he
is at present one step away
from complete
homelessness. His eldest son (his only
actual blood child,
the others are
stepchildren) Paul III, who's about 21 years old, has been
homeless several
times in Nevada during the past couple of years.
Why would Jack Kerouac's will have been
forged in 1973? Although
his estate was
valued at $91 by his widow in 1969, it was clearly worth a
lot more even
then. By 1973 several more books,
including VISIONS OF CODY,
had been
published posthumously, and people like Coppola were showing
interest in movie
and dramatic rights. It would not have
taken a psychic to
predict that the
estate was someday going to be worth a lot of money.
If Jan Kerouac's lawsuit in Florida
goes to trial, and if she wins
(that is, if her
Estate wins), her heirs will still be able to claim 1/3 of
everything, both
physical property and rights to unpublished material. As
her literary
executor, I may also have some say in what happens to all these
papers. As I have said over and over, I am pledged to
carry out her "letter
of
intention," which states her unequivocal desire to see all her father's
papers placed in
a university library--preferably the Bancroft in Berkeley.
You mention John Sampas's explanation
that he had to sell part of
the archive to
take care of the rest. Since the
copyrights alone were
earning the
Sampas family about $100,000 a year, why couldn't they use some
of that money to
take care of the archive? Besides, if
they place the
material in a
university, the university will do the cataloguing and
preservation. If I ever get to ask John Sampas question 3
(I haven't had an
answer to my
first two), it would be: if it is expensive and burdensome to
pay for the care
of the archive yourself, why not get it into a library
right away?
You state: "I also feel that John
Sampas is now fully committed to
having Jack's
papers going to some public institution."
What evidence do
you have of
this? After three years of my own
intensive research, I have
been able to find
no such evidence--and I have talked to librarians and
dealers all over
the country. If Sampas is presently
negotiating with a
library, why
can't he tell us? Ginsberg let it be
known a year in advance
that he was negotiating
with Stanford, and it did not hurt his negotiations.
Why must these
negotiations be kept secret? Also, WHAT
IS TAKING SO LONG???
Mr. Sampas was
made literary executor by his family over 6 years ago. That
is longer than it
took the Allies to win World War II. It does not take that
long to get a
bunch of boxes into a library, and to negotiate fair terms for
doing so.
In October, 1994, I had one of my
periodic arguments with Ginsberg
about this same
subject. Ginsberg came back to me,
claiming he had just had
dinner with John
Sampas, and that Sampas had told him, "I'll get the stuff
into the New York
Public Library within 20 years." 20
years!!!??? How does
Mr. Sampas know
that he'll be alive in 20 years to complete the deal, or
that the director
of collections at the NYPL will be alive in 20 years, or
that any library
in the country will even have money to purchase a
collection in 20
years? What about the Kerouac scholars
who would like
access to the
material today?
When Ginsberg told me that, my reply was:
"Jan Kerouac won't live
another 20
years." She didn't. Neither did Ginsberg. DON'T YOU THINK THE
TIME FOR ACTION
IS NOW??? IF MR. SAMPAS IS SINCERE,
DOESN'T HE OWE THE
WORLD OF KEROUAC
SCHOLARSHIP A DEMONSTRATION OF HIS SINCERITY, RIGHT NOW?
You ask if Sampas owns Jack Kerouac's
property, shouldn't he have
the right to make
as much money on it as he can? Legally
he may have that
right. Morally, he doesn't. One doesn't destroy a national treasure just
for the sake of
maximum profits--witness the fight now in northern
California over
saving Headwaters Forest (virgin redwood forest) from the
buzzsaws of
Pacific Lumber.
OK, I've answered about Jan's money in
my last post, and last night
I explained that
she was not on Medicaid, and in fact died with $10,000 in
unpaid medical
bills.
Last question--point. You speak about the fact that there shouldn't
be this
"animosity." I agree, but
let's look at where it's coming from.
Also, you don't
believe in a conspiracy. It was not Jan
Kerouac who was
attacking Mr.
Sampas; it was not me who was attacking Mr. Sampas. Mr.
Sampas has made
an active effort to keep me from continuing my Kerouac
scholarship
(calling Tom Staley at University of Texas in an attempt to stop
me from looking
at Kerouac materials there). Sampas's former agent, Jacob
Hoye, called the
University of California Press to try to keep them from
reprinting my
book, MEMORY BABE. Sampas's agent
Sterling Lord wrote me a
year and a half
ago claiming MEMORY BABE was in copyright violation, in what
appeared yet
another ploy to put my book out of print.
As a matter of fact,
Viking/Penguin
put MEMORY BABE out of print within weeks after signing a
six-book deal for
unpublished Kerouac materials with John Sampas.
Draw your
own conclusions.
Moreover, one of the organizers of the
NYU 1995 Kerouac conference
told me (off the
record) that it was John Sampas who wanted me and Jan
Kerouac kept out
of that conference. Remember that
without Mr. Sampas's
cooperation, they
would have had no conference, no Kerouac manuscripts to be
read onstage,
etc.
Jan Kerouac was not cutting down John
Sampas's income month by
month; he was
cutting down hers.
I have not taken legal action to try to
get John Sampas kicked out
as literary
executor of Stella's estate. But Mr.
Sampas's new partner, John
Lash, is taking
action to get me kicked out as Jan Kerouac's literary
executor. Moreover, Mr. Sampas has shown an active
interest in the success
of Mr. Lash's
proceeding against me, and is presumably supporting it.
My lawyer has not threatened John
Sampas with a libel suit; his
lawyer has
threatened me.
Mr. Sampas dominates every aspect of
Jack Kerouac scholarship today.
He dictated to
Ann Charters what Kerouac letters could be published, and
which ones
couldn't, and which parts had to be censored.
He hassled Steve
Turner about what
photos could be used in his book ANGELHEADED HIPSTER, and
even complained
that a photo of Jack with a teacup was shown on the book
jacket, since Mr.
Sampas prefers the image of a non-drinking Kerouac to be
put forward to
the world. He hassled Paul Maher about
the use of a Kerouac
drawing on a bar
napkin, which Mr. Maher put on the cover of his new magazine.
I supported Jan Kerouac in her lawsuit
against the Sampas family
because I thought
her motivation honorable and her cause just.
That is the
most that I have
done against Mr. Sampas.
It's true I've said some hard words
about him. He's said some hard
words about me,
including calling me "a piece of trash" in front of
Ginsberg, Robert
Creeley, and a lobbyful of people at the Lowell Hilton.
But I'm ready to put all that behind me,
if he is. I state right
here, I'll work
with John Sampas any place, any time, to help get Jack
Kerouac's archive
put on permanent deposit in a library, for all who are
interested,
present and future generations, to study and learn from.
Now, can we hear from Mr. Sampas?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 02:42:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: New Q's for Nicosia
Gerry,
Despite what
anyone may say about you elaborating on your own position in all
these posts, I
for one, am glad to be able to hear about so many fascinating
aspects to JK and
his legacy that I believe you're in a unique position to
comment on. A few questions that spring to mind:
1). Why did the Sampas family do little with the
estate from 1973 (when
Memere died) to 1990
(when Stella died). Was it because as I
think you said
in Memory Babe
and maybe others have said too Stella hated Jack's "dirty
writings"
and even threatened to burn them? Was it
because there was no real
market for the
material before the early 90's or did the various releases
trigger the
market? I'm assuming many in the Sampas
family were helpful when
you were
researching Memory Babe in the late 70's/early 80's.
2). You mentioned JK's executor was Citizen's
National Bank of St. Pete.
Are they still in the picture somehow today or
is that all ancient history?
3). Why do you believe Allen Ginsberg sat on the
fence on this whole estate
issue? I understand he didn't support Jan, but I
never heard he denounced
her claims
either.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 03:50:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dale F. Smith"
<dale@PCANYTHING.COM>
Subject: Re: more on dope
<<<Individual
freedom is not marked by the absence of constraints. Freedom
comes from the
soul, through exercising the heart and mind, and for those that
have attained it,
no prison can hold them.
Kleb>>>
yessa yessa
yessa!
Dale F. Smith
dale@pcanything.com
The darkness
drops again; but now I know
That twenty
centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to
nightmere by a rocking cradle,
And what rough
beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards
Bethlehem to be born?
---W.B. Yeats
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 08:34:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: New Q's for Nicosia
At 02:42 AM 5/3/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Gerry,
>
>Despite what
anyone may say about you elaborating on your own position in all
>these posts,
I for one, am glad to be able to hear about so many fascinating
>aspects to JK
and his legacy that I believe you're in a unique position to
>comment
on. A few questions that spring to mind:
>
>1). Why did the Sampas family do little with the
estate from 1973 (when
>Memere died)
to 1990 (when Stella died). Was it
because as I think you said
>in Memory
Babe and maybe others have said too Stella hated Jack's "dirty
>writings"
and even threatened to burn them? Was it
because there was no real
>market for
the material before the early 90's or did the various releases
>trigger the
market? I'm assuming many in the Sampas family
were helpful when
>you were
researching Memory Babe in the late 70's/early 80's.
>
>2). You mentioned JK's executor was Citizen's
National Bank of St. Pete.
> Are they
still in the picture somehow today or is that all ancient history?
>
>3). Why do you believe Allen Ginsberg sat on the
fence on this whole estate
>issue? I understand he didn't support Jan, but I
never heard he denounced
>her claims
either.
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>Fog City
>Hi all! To be
exact. Allen Ginsberg told a number of us in Lowell that in
his discussions
with Stella, he asked about the unreleased works. She
quoted, " I
wanted to wait until the right time when Jack would be
appreciated. I
did not want the books to merely fade into obscurity." I
think we can look
forward to numerous releases in the next few years. Among
them...the
publication of Jack's notebooks. Good Day All!
Paul of The
Kerouac
Quarterly.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 08:03:37 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: grocery and other
haunts
PAM wrote:
>
> >Hi Dave!
You can recieve a copy for $5.00. Try submitting your poem for
> publication
if you want. You may send both (or one or the other) to:
> The Kerouac
Quarterly
> 34 North Rd.
#7
> Chelmsford,
MA. 01824 Thanks, Paul...
so i'm thinkin'
about submitting the grocery poem to KQ.
could people
more versed in
verse be so kind as to send me some suggestions for
editing and
revisions. please be brutal.
then i'll work it
a bit massage it here and there and there and here
and then figure
out a way to get my printer running so that i can print
it and send it
earthmail.
i appreciate
ideas from anyone out there. we're all
born critics - just
some are born
nice and polite too :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:37:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re:
Jake Barnes is beat (was "More on dope")
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 2 May 1997 15:37:45 CDT from
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
On Fri, 2 May
1997 15:37:45 CDT Wes Lundburg said:
>Someone
wrote:
>
>>
>>Isn't it
pretty to think so!
>>
>
>Thanks, Jake
Barnes. If it's alcohol, surely Lady
Brett would think so....
>
>Now, speaking
of Jake Barnes, I would say he IS beat.
In fact, I think the
>post-war
disillusioned crowd (the lost generation) is the precursor for the
>beats. They, too, were fed up with life and the
illusion of "how things are"
>and its
failure to match up to the dream we all live for. The difference is
>that the lost
generation didn't see--couldn't see, perhaps--that there was
>something to
reach for, as I think the beats did see.
The lost generation was
>disillusioned,
and that's it. The beats were
disillusioned, but wouldn't let
>go
>of the desire
to find something better.
>
>---Wes
Agreed.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:49:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila's questions, final chapter
To readers of the
list:
In one of Gerald
Nicosia's posts he noted that:
"If Sampas
is presently negotiating with a
library, why
can't he tell us? Ginsberg let it be
known a year in advance
that he was
negotiating with Stanford, and it did not hurt his negotiations."
Just wanted to set the record straight, this
is not true. Negotiations with
Stanford took
less than a month, and until the agreement was reached no one
knew (nor was it
anyone's business to know) that any negotiations were
underway.
Allen's legacy
should be remembered in his oft-quoted saying "Candor prevents
paranoia".
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 13:13:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ginsy's position on "the
squabble"
Bill Morgan,
I really like
that line a lot... "Candor prevents paranoia".
You too are in a
unique position to elaborate on Allen's thoughts regarding
the "Estate
Controversy". Could you also answer
the same question I just
posed to Gerry
Nicosia - what were Allen's thoughts on the matter?
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 10:14:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Dear Bill Morgan:
OK, I'm curious about the Stanford
thing, because I remember
Ginsberg talking
to me at least twice about the Stanford negotiations, and
as far as I
remember, both times were before the archive actually landed at
Stanford. Do you have a date for when the the actual
document transferring
ownership of
Ginsberg's archive was signed? I have an
exact date for at
least one of my
meetings with Allen when we talked about this, because at
that meeting,
witnessed by two other Kerouac scholars, Allen signed and
dated posters for
us.
I'm not doubting you, I may well be wrong (i.e., he may already have
sold the archive
secretly before he talked to me), but if you give me a
date, I'll know
for sure.
Thanks for helping to get this point
straight.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:22:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
I only have one
thing that puzzles me...if there was never anything
deposited at the
New York Public Library...how come when they had a show
highlighting rare
manuscripts they owned, a significant amount of it was
Kerouac's? I have
a catalog of the show in front of me right now and it does
not appear to me
that nothing is in there. When I have time I will type up
what is on the
list....one of those is a novel Jack wrote called "Bnzedrine
Vision"Or
all of the notebooks to Mexico City Blues, drawings, letters, a
couple of
sonnets, and other things. Remember, these are highlights of
material owned by
the NYC Public Library, not everything. The name of the
show was The Hand
of the Poet held from August 16th, 1996 - February 15,
1997. This is
something no one has commented on but can be found out with
minimal research.
Thanks, paul...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:49:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Response to Paul
Maher's question:
What is all that Kerouac stuff doing in
the New York Public Library?
The NYPL has been building a
Beat/Kerouac collection since the 60's.
It is indeed one
of the best in the country. One of their
early
acquisitions was
the manuscript of SATORI IN PARIS, which supposedly Fred
Jordan had simply
held on to after Grove published the book.
They have been
buying up
Kerouac/Beat stuff whenever and wherever they can find it--IF THEY
CAN AFFORD
IT. They reputedly bought a large
collection of stuff from Ann
Charters last
year for a quarter million bucks.
Both MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and BOOK
OF DREAMS manuscripts are in
the NYPL. However, according to Jeffrey Weinberg, both
were sold to PRIVATE
COLLECTORS, and
later resold to the NYPL. There is even
a polaroid of the
BOOK OF DREAMS
notebook being sold to the private collector.
Also, by the
way, Jack typed
several versions of MEX CITY BLUES, and I don't think the
library has all
those typed drafts--though I welcome Rodney Phillips (the
acquisition
librarian) or anyone else at the NYPL to comment on this.
Jan and I asked Rodney Phillips if he
had ever BOUGHT ANY KEROUAC
MATERIAL DIRECTLY
FROM SAMPAS. My recollection is that he
said no, though
there may have
been a few things (letters of Jack to Stella?) that Sampas
did sell to the
library. We asked why he hadn't bought
the manuscripts,
other notebooks,
etc., and he said the prices Sampas was asking were too
high. He did say that Sampas had DONATED A BUNCH OF
XEROXES OF KEROUAC
LETTERS to the
library.
Sampas also allowed the NYPL to SHOW
THE ON THE ROAD MANUSCRIPT,
without selling
it to them.
The NYPL would of course love to buy
the entire Kerouac archive, but
the most they
could pay for it is one million dollars (for everything,
thousands of
different pieces). Sampas has declined
to sell it to them at
that price
(apparently not enough).
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:22:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Yes...but isn't
it fit to ponder that the dealer in question may be
representing the
estate? I couldn't see the estate directly peddling this
important
material to libraries without a middle man....
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:19:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: New Q's for Nicosia
To answer Jerry
Cimino's questions:
(By the way, I realize I haven't
answered everybody's questions in
the order they
came in, and I still have a long backlog to answer, but I
have been trying
to answer the most "urgent" questions first--urgent in
terms of the
Albuquerque court case and also those that relate to the need
to get Kerouac's
papers into a library NOW.)
As for me elaborating my position,
well, as Thoreau might say, I
know my own side
better than anyone else.
But I keep saying, I'd like others to
correct me where I'm wrong or
my memory has
faltered. (The past few years have been
awfully busy, trying
to finish my own
1600 page Vietnam veteran book, raising a family, helping
Jan Kerouac. There are plenty of times when I make honest
mistakes or
misremember
things.)
I also keep saying, I'd like John
Sampas, or one of his close
associates, to
come forward here to represent HIS side of affairs. Isn't
that what the
internet is all about? Open discussion,
the equivalent of
"conversation
on a street corner," the most recent court decision called it.
Nobody's going to
get hurt here, we all want to find out the truth about
these matters--at
least those of us who care about the future of scholarly
study in the Beat
and Kerouac fields. I have no desire to
perform a
monologue on this
subject.
You ask why the Sampas family did
almost nothing with Kerouac's
estate from 1973
(the death of Memere) to 1990 (the death of Stella).
Stella was in
control--at least nominally--during those years. The word in
Lowell,
especially from her brothers, was that she sought to "protect Jack"
from all the
dirty things biographers wanted to write about him. At that
point, Charters'
biography was the only one out, and the word was that
Stella hated it,
felt it slandered Jack and his family.
One reason the
Sampases
cooperated with me so much at that time was because they wanted to
bury Charters'
biography. Now, ironically, the
situation is reversed, and
they have
annointed Ann Charters as their spokesperson mainly to get rid of
me and MEMORY
BABE.
Yes, there was word at the "inner
circle" in Nicky's Bar that Stella
contemplated
burning all Jack's papers, rather than let any scholars or
biographers (the
people she hated most) see them.*
(*As a historical footnote, the
"inner circle" at Nicky's was an
actual round
table far in the back, at which sat, at different times, Tony
Sampas, Nick
Sampas, Billy Koumantzelis, Joe Chaput, Pancho Gonzales, a
famous Brinks
robber who was Tony's friend, Chiefy Nobriga, a bartender who
went way way back
with Tony, and myself, thanks to Tony's accepting me into
the circle.**)
(**Second historical footnote. Tony Sampas helped me hugely with my
biography, took
me upstairs in Nicky's to show me drawers full of Kerouac
notebooks and
manuscripts, played private Kerouac tapes for me, etc. And
despite all this
bickering with the "Sampas family," which mainly has to do
with John
Sampas's opposition to me and my book, Tony and I have never
fallen out. In fact, a couple of years ago in Lowell, I
saw Tony in a bar,
and I walked over
to his table. I said, "Tony, nobody
in your family will
talk to me any
more. Are YOU still talking to
me?" He said, "Of course, I
never stopped
talking to you." And we sat down
and caught up on a lot of
years.)
To some extent, John Sampas and other
members of Stella's family
have kept up her
campaign to "protect Jack's memory."
I received complaints
from some of them
that my biography made Jack look like 1) a homosexual 2) a
drunk 3) a man
who was rude to women; and 4) that I made people think Jack
wanted to divorce
Stella--all of which they deny is true.
From 300
interviews, and
20 years of scholarship, I still conclude that 1) Jack was a
practicing
bisexual 2) he was a drunk and died from alcohol; 3) he could be
very rude to
women or anyone else when drunk; and 4) he absolutely wanted to
divorce Stella.
Recently I heard from Steve Turner that
John Sampas had hassled him
over his book
ANGELHEADED HIPSTER, and that he had wanted Turner to remove
passages referring
to Jack's alcoholism and bisexuality.
In 1983, when I was invited (because of
MEMORY BABE) to speak at a
big convention of
the National Society of Arts & Letters in Clearwater
Beach, Florida, I
drove over to St. Pete, with my mother (to seem less
threatening) and
knocked on Stella's door. I wanted to
tell her that,
indeed, my book
had brought honor, not disgrace, to Jack, and to invite her
to attend my
keynote speech on Kerouac at the NSAL dinner in Clearwater that
evening.
Stella slammed the door in my
face. Then her sister reopened the
door and
apologized that Stella hadn't been well.
Nowadays I think there may be one more
plausible explanation. If
Gabe's will WAS
forged, and IF STELLA KNEW IT, she may have wanted to keep
as far from
biographers and the press as possible, to keep that crime hidden.
After Gabe's death, Citizen's National
Bank of St. Pete went out of
the picture, and
Stella became the executor for the Estate of Gabrielle
Kerouac. Then John Sampas became the executor for the
Estate of Stella
Sampas
Kerouac. I mention this only because,
when John Sampas calls himself
Jack Kerouac's
literary executor, there is an implication that Jack picked
him for this job.
I have never fully understood Allen's
refusal to help Jan, which
wounded Jan
deeply. I wish Bill Morgan could shed
some light on this. I
have often
speculated that it had to do with Ann Charters assuring Allen
(and he trusted
her) that the Sampases were taking great care of Jack's
stuff. Of course Ann Charters was well compensated
for promoting the
Sampases'
position.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:51:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: digests
question- how
does one get off the digest mode?
SET BEAT-L NORMAL....?
SET BEAT-L NONDIGEST....?
?
being severely
technologically challenged, i cant seem to open any of the
downloaded
digestlists and such, ere go, i may as well go back to the regular
mode of listserv
reception. just need to figure out how, first.
thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:00:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: oops
should have sent
that one to "listserv" not BEAT-L.
sorry bout that.....
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:17:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: May Day Blues-May Day Reds
In-Reply-To: <3368C2A5.2435@midusa.net>
>i've been
checking my door, mailbox and e-mail (even my bathroom window)
>every ten
seconds or so since three this morning hoping to catch a
>maybasket.
>
>hope y'all
get maybaskets.
>
>this can be an
imaginary cyber-basket on May Day.
include what ever you
>like in
yours.
>
>david rhaesa
>
>haven't got
the old may Pole out yet. i think it's
rusty.
dr,
In Chicago for
May Day. Great May Day feast and celebration with friends.
Returned to Madison
to find a May Basket--my first in years. In the basket
a copy of the
Progressive Oklahoman, odds and ends of clippings regarding
Socialism, an
invitation to the Haymarket Tour May 11 and some red jelly
beans. That
basket and your post has me marking my calender. Next year I'm
going to hang
baskets--introduce the kids in the neighborhood to the
original, US,
worker's holiday.
Reminds me of a
conversation with Meridel LeSueur years ago. She was down
in Mexico. Had
stopped in a little town (she'd forgotten the name) Was
sitting on the
edge of the fountain in the center of the town square and
noticed that the
names of the Haymarket Square vistims were enlaid on the
stone work arounf
the foundation of the structure.
As a kid on a
north country farm (Mnesota) the hanging of baskets on May
Day was much more
popular that trick 'n treating on Halloween.
Thanks for the
cyber-basket. Real treat. I'll roll a cyber-number and kick
back.
jo
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen from
the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:28:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan-Plymell
In-Reply-To:
<199705011632.JAA29644@iceland.it.earthlink.net>
>Charlie
Plymell, I love your reminiscences, and wonder when (or if you have
>already)
written a book of them. But here's a
slight correction. I may be
>mistaken, but
I could swear Al Aronowitz told me he'd introduced Dylan to
>Ginsberg in
1961-1962. (Aronowitz was the guy who
did the great 1959 NY
>POST series
on the Beats, and later was their rock pop columnist in the
>Sixties, the
guy who introduced Dylan to the Beatles and gave the Beatles
>their first
hit of marijuana, etc.) We could all
find out if somebody
>emailed Al,
who's considered himself the Blacklisted Journalist for the last
>two decades,
at blackj@bigmagic.com.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
Read some of the
great material Al Aronowitz wrote at:
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/
and hope this
material can end up in a book someday.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:43:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
In-Reply-To:
<199705030347.UAA15498@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
On Fri, 2 May
1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> Mr. Sampas dominates every aspect of
Jack Kerouac scholarship today.
> He dictated
to Ann Charters what Kerouac letters could be published, and
> which ones
couldn't, and which parts had to be censored.
What's this?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:06:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
At 11:49 AM
5/3/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Response to
Paul Maher's question:
> What is all that Kerouac stuff doing in
the New York Public Library?
> The NYPL has been building a
Beat/Kerouac collection since the 60's.
>It is indeed
one of the best in the country. One of
their early
>acquisitions
was the manuscript of SATORI IN PARIS, which supposedly Fred
>Jordan had
simply held on to after Grove published the book. They have been
>buying up
Kerouac/Beat stuff whenever and wherever they can find it--IF THEY
>CAN AFFORD
IT. They reputedly bought a large
collection of stuff from Ann
>Charters last
year for a quarter million bucks.
> Both MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and BOOK OF
DREAMS manuscripts are in
>the
NYPL. However, according to Jeffrey
Weinberg, both were sold to PRIVATE
>COLLECTORS,
and later resold to the NYPL. There is
even a polaroid of the
>BOOK OF
DREAMS notebook being sold to the private collector. Also, by the
>way, Jack
typed several versions of MEX CITY BLUES, and I don't think the
>library has
all those typed drafts--though I welcome Rodney Phillips (the
>acquisition
librarian) or anyone else at the NYPL to comment on this.
> Jan and I asked Rodney Phillips if he
had ever BOUGHT ANY KEROUAC
>MATERIAL
DIRECTLY FROM SAMPAS. My recollection is
that he said no, though
>there may
have been a few things (letters of Jack to Stella?) that Sampas
>did sell to
the library. We asked why he hadn't
bought the manuscripts,
>other
notebooks, etc., and he said the prices Sampas was asking were too
>high. He did say that Sampas had DONATED A BUNCH OF
XEROXES OF KEROUAC
>LETTERS to
the library.
> Sampas also allowed the NYPL to SHOW
THE ON THE ROAD MANUSCRIPT,
>without
selling it to them.
> The NYPL would of course love to buy
the entire Kerouac archive, but
>the most they
could pay for it is one million dollars (for everything,
>thousands of
different pieces). Sampas has declined
to sell it to them at
>that price
(apparently not enough).
>
>Gerry, I just
looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on
one of the first
pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of
them can't
remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the
Berg collection
of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What
do you have to
say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?
By the way Gerry
the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard
to promote
Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and
try to put us
down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas
conspiracy
theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work
hard to put this
festival on every year don't know or care about your
squabbles with
the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the
festival last
year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the
festival. You
know what his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not
sure but the
probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is
because it's not
"Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac" and
I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to
be your only one
lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and
I haven't heard
of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you would like
it better if no
one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in
Lowell. It seems
like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John
private and don't
try to drag down people that truly want to do some good
and promote
Kerouac. Phil Chaput
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:55:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Gatt implications to intellectual
property....
Nick,
First of all, thanks for your sig file
with its the regular reminder
of the proper
approach to getting - "don't let
the bastards grind you down"
...lots better
than my two Roman legionaire standbyes, "Nolo urinare contra
ventum." and
"Semper ubi sub ubi."
Reading about the confused situation
regarding the Kerouac estate,
and now seeing
the intricacies of copyright renewal and the potential for
misses, has been
an odd mix of feeling disheartened together with a sense of
tension and
suspense as each new twist is unveiled.
The digitization idea of Michael Stutz
is an excellent one and made
me wonder if
there is much web access to digitized works of the size of the
Kerouac novels.
The Gatt twist seems an incredibly important development in
the intellectual
property area. What are the specific limitations to
applying this. Is
it obscure enough that Gerald Nicosia or the Sampas family
would have missed
the chance that it provided? Gerald /
Gerry?
This seems to make it important to
have/build an index of what the
copyright renewal
options are on the whole body of Beat lierature even
though we're ten
to twenty years past the critical time period for renewal.
Does the
publishing industry maintain such a resource? Anyway,I hope that
you and the
otehrs involved in publishing in all its froma will continue to
educate us.
Thanks Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:55:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Cornix?
Michael,
What's the Cornix web applet that you
refer to?
>I heard there
was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR. I want to
>use the
Cornix web applet (http://www.halcyon.com/chigh/corndemo.html) on
>said ASCII
file of OTR to view it word-at-a-time on giant screens.
On big screens? Why?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:59:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Old memory
Comments: To:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
The other eve. I
read in the K battles that someone was called "piece of
trash" or
something to that effect. Also a while
back someone asked me about
the bar scene
after the Buckley show and said that was Allen's last meeting
with K and were
they arguing? My trashy memory is coming
back: After getting
K disengaged from
Capote we went to a trashy bar and occupied a large booth.
I was wedged
beside two dorky guys who kept ordering beer and shots. I was
thinking to
myself they must have been the only people K could have found to
drive him into
the city. I don't like to sit in bars much but can if there is
interesting
company. I sat mostly silent because I felt there was little to
talk about. Allen
was having a serious conversation with K. but I didn't pay
much attention
because it seem Allen was always having serious conversations
even when
everyone else was drinking. K was drunk or drunker. It wasn't a
happy bar like
setting, and now that I think of it, the atmosphere was
imposing. I sat
on the oustide, so I could walk around frequently because I
felt I had
nothing to say except small talk about driving to or from the
city. We stayed
there for an hour or two. I remember now that Allen, always
the polite one,
had earlier introduced these two guys, or at least one of
them as a
relative of K's.
Can anyone help
me discern historically the import of the evening?
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:14:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dylan-Plymell
Comments: To:
blackj@bigmagic.com, gnicosia@earthlink.net
In a message
dated 97-05-02 08:57:26 EDT, you write:
<< >
> In a message dated 97-05-01 13:12:00 EDT,
you write:
>
> << Charlie Plymell, I love your
reminiscences, and wonder when (or if you
> have
>
already) written a book of them.
But here's a slight correction. I
may
be
>
mistaken, but I could swear Al Aronowitz told me he'd introduced Dylan
to
>
Ginsberg in 1961-1962. (Aronowitz
was the guy who did the great 1959 NY
>
POST series on the Beats, and later was their rock pop columnist in the
>
Sixties, the guy who introduced Dylan to the Beatles and gave the
Beatles
> their
first hit of marijuana, etc.) We could
all find out if somebody
>
emailed Al, who's considered himself the Blacklisted Journalist for the
last
>
two decades, at blackj@bigmagic.com.
>
Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
>>
> Gerry: You may be correct. Al (whom I've recently been in
touch
with...and
> fwd'd this post) is credited with having
introduced them. That seems early
> for my recollection in the Fall of
'63 when I played Dylan's
"Blowing"
for
> him. He either said or it was assumed by
all present that he hadn't heard
it.
> It may be that he hadn't heard that
album, or it may be he was playing
mum,
> or hadn't heard him sing? It's an
interesting assertion and thanks for
> calling my attention to it...makes me
wonder? No, I'm not writing any more
> memiors, just on the list.
> C.Plymell
don't understand. Does Plymell claim that he intro'd Allen to
BoB? Can
I see his reminiscences? --Al
--
***************************************
Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj >>
Al, Gerry, and
Beat-L:
..er what claim
did I make exactly? I'm sure that I played D's album to Allen
in 1963. By all
accounts of those present and Karen Wright who brought the
album to Gough
St. Allen hadn't heard it. I don't see anything in my post
that makes the
claim that I introduced Allen to Bob which I didn't. I am
interested in the
dates of Al's meeting and did Allen seem receptive to
Dylan's music at
that time?
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:54:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ann Charters article on Estate Battle
The other day
someone mentioned Ann Charters wrote an article giving "the
other sides"
version of the estate battle. Could
someone summarize it so
those of us who
haven't read it know what points she made.
Thanks
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:11:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
What this IS is
another of Gerry's garbled, exaggerated, self-serving
paranoid
delusions, based mostly upon his child-like "wish-thinking" view of
the world we
inhabit.
As Gerry knows,
there are problems with the editing of SELECTED LETTERS --
mistakes,
undeclared cuts, and even questionable/debatable cuts in places --
but to
extrapolate from that situation, to this
new fantasy of his that John
Sampas DICTATED
precisely which letters were to be included in the book (and
which were to be
left out?), and which parts of those letters were to be cut,
is utter nonsense.
Gerry knows this, unless he has surrendered utterly to his
delusions, but --
Beat-List people! -- for the time being it serves Gerry's
purpose that you
all accept HIS version of the truth, in this matter, and in
every other
Estate matter discussed on the List this week. John Sampas is the
world's worst
villain. Ann Charters is either his skilled, paid henchman, or
his willing
stooge -- whichever version Gerry is peddling at a given moment.
Myself, I am
also, it now seems, one of John's close allies -- this fiction
is posted by
Gerry even though he has himself written, in several articles,
about exactly how
it was that I ended up, permanently, on the unwritten
Sampas
"Enemies List."
But our wee Gerry
wears people down -- he exhausts them frankly. For myself,
at the end of a
painful week, brevity, if not complete silence, seems the
best reponse. So,
just one final thought. I really liked
Mark Hemenway's
notion, a while
back, that nothing in this matter is what it might first seem
to you to be, and
that the only way to sort things out is to do some research
on your own.
Don't just listen to Gerry, don't just listen to ME, don't JUST
LISTEN to
anybody! Ask questions. And be sceptical -- very sceptical -- of
the answers.
All for now.
CHEERS, Rod A.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:40:20 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
I'm certainly not
an expert on this and am trying hard not to be.
Important as this
matter is to serious K. scholars my reaction is "what
a dismal tiring
mess Jack's estate was." I tend to
read the posts
quickly and
delete quickly. But two things keep
bothering me. I
remember when the
whole business of Jan's claims kept coming up I was
waiting to hear
from AG who I thought probably had something important
to say. He never emerged as one of Jan's supporters,
unlike people who
had little
contact with Kerouac like Kesey and Co.
I hope someone, Bill
Morgan perhaps,
can shed some light on this. Ann
Charters has not been
heard from in
this list discussion. It seems she would
deserve to be
heard as a
respectable Kerouac scholar also. I
think I agree with Rod
that big doses of
scepticism are called for in regard to anybodies
claims in this
affair.
James Stauffer
Rod Anstee wrote:
. . .
Don't just listen to Gerry, don't just listen
to ME, don't JUST
> LISTEN to
anybody! Ask questions. And be sceptical -- very sceptical -- of
> the answers.
> All for now.
CHEERS, Rod A.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:14:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
Rod Anstee wrote:
>
> What this IS
is another of Gerry's garbled, exaggerated, self-serving
> paranoid
delusions, based mostly upon his child-like "wish-thinking" view
of... For myself,
> at the end
of a painful week, brevity, if not complete silence, seems the
> best
reponse. So, just one final thought. I
really liked Mark Hemenway's
> notion, a
while back, that nothing in this matter is what it might first seem
> to you to
be, and that the only way to sort things out is to do some research
> on your own.
Don't just listen to Gerry, don't just listen to ME, don't JUST
> LISTEN to
anybody! Ask questions. And be sceptical -- very sceptical -- of
> the answers.
> All for now.
CHEERS, Rod A.
this has been a
interesting and informative thread for me. having
listened to many
sides, and learned a lot about history and copyright
and the
libraries, i have to state that, lack of information in some of
these posts, that
use vindictive namecalling and vicious intimidation
instead of
thought, reason, and facts to support their veiw make me
think of two
different cliches
wheres the beef,
i am glad to be a
woman, (meaning to cherish the logical mind with the
cool objective
reason that there is probably no right, little justice
and that the case
in court will be best decided in court).
I am most
interested in,
was the will forged, are the papers safe and will the
ever really be
accesible.
I do not wish to remember a jack k who didn't drink. or wasn't
sometimes an ass
hole, or one that didn't change literature into
something just a
little more alive. I am pretty sure he was at least
those three
things.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:54:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: t-shirts
At 04:27 PM
4/30/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Three cheers
for Jeffrey on a job well done!
>
>Bill or Jeff,
what are these shirts going to be? Will it say beat-l on them
I haven't been
following the post like I should have and now that I am
reading it it
sounds like it will be nice.Keep me informed. Phil Chaput
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:17:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
At 10:11 PM
5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>What this IS
is another of Gerry's garbled, exaggerated, self-serving
>paranoid delusions,
based mostly upon his child-like "wish-thinking" view of
>the world we
inhabit.
Well, I've got to give Rod Anstee
credit--he managed to get seven
insults into one
sentence. That's probably a record. He gave up trying to
prove that I'm a
self-serving Macchiavellian and has now reverted to
Sampas's earlier
claims: that I'm just a crazy man.
"Don't listen to Nicosia--he's
just a nut they should have locked up
long ago."
Fine, guys, but the judge in
Albuquerque didn't think so.
I wish Rod would come clean for once,
and tell you all that he is a
Kerouac
collector. He bought up a bunch of
pieces of the Kerouac archive
for himself,
through his friend Jeffrey Weinberg.
Then he was honest enough
for a while to
tell me what was going on; but what happened is Sampas got
mightily pissed
at him for blowing the whistle, and then Annie Charters, his
old buddy, got so
pissed at him for blabbing that she cut out the big thank
you she gave him
in the acknowledgements of Kerouac's SELECTED LETTERS. In
the galley proofs
she thanked him profusely; by the time the book came out,
she lumped him in
with seventeen other people who "also helped."
Rod's letter is preposterous. If any of you have been following
last week's
letters, I have said over and over again that I would like to
put all the bad
feelings, angry words, on both sides behind John Sampas and
myself--that as
Jan Kerouac's literary executor, I would like to work with
him on getting
the Kerouac archive on deposit in a library, and I am willing
to begin speaking
with him about this on any terms he chooses.
I have
called for John
Sampas to join in a dialogue on the subject of preserving
Kerouac's
archive, here on the internet. I have
said I have no grudge
against John
Sampas, and that I want to see only 3 things--John Sampas do
right by Jack
Kerouac's work, by his daughter's memory, and by his family
(Paul Blake,
Jr.) I have never called John Sampas
"the world's worst
villain." This is pure Anstee poppycock.
I did not say Sampas "dictated
precisely which letters" were
included in the
book--again, this is Anstee talking, not Nicosia. I did say
Sampas told
Charters that certain letters couldn't be published, certain
ones (especially
those to Sammy and Stella) could and should be, and he also
made sure certain
passages--especially those dealing with Jack's bisexuality
and other
"dark side" characteristics--be taken out. Back in the days when
Ann Charters was
still talking to me (circa August 1993) we had a long talk
on the phone, and
she told me of the problems she was having with Sampas
censoring the
collection. I suggested she use my
archive at U Mass, Lowell,
because I had a
lot of letters from Kerouac to his girlfriends, such as Lois
Sorrells. Ann told me Sampas didn't want her putting in
Jack's letters to
his
girlfriends--it detracted from his relationship with Stella. Ann also
told me that
Sampas had forbidden her to put in any letters from Joyce
Johnson, because
the Sampases were furious with Johnson after a piece she
had written about
their relationship with Kerouac in FAME magazine. More
recently, Ann
gave an interview to a literary magazine in which she talked
about some of the
things John Sampas asked her to take out of the letters.
Those of you who looked closely at the
text of the letters saw that
there were TWO
HUNDRED ELLIPSES, that's two hundred places where you see ...
(dot dot dot)
indicating material was removed. I've
traced a number of
those passages
down in copies of Kerouac letters I have, and many of them
have to do with
sexual and other "dark side" issues of Kerouac--including
his
antisemitism. Ann Charters never
bothered to explain what was in those
missing
passages. Then Mr. Anstee along with
Dave Moore of England (founder
of the former
magazine THE KEROUAC CONNECTION) found that THERE ARE ANOTHER
TWO HUNDRED
DELETIONS in the SELECTED LETTERS where Ann Charters has
completely failed
to mark the omission--not even a dot dot dot.
SECRET
CUTS, you might
call them. That's 400 omissions in a
book 600 pages long.
I'll be glad to reprint some of that
Ann Charters interview here if
I can dig it
out. Anstee himself was working on an
essay called "1400 Dots"
in which he looked
at the kind of passages Ann Charters cut out.
I helped
him with this by
spending a whole day in my private attic archive, digging
out copies of
Kerouac letters that would help him trace down these missing
passages. But Anstee never published "1400
Dots." I guess politically he
figured it was
time to make friends with the Charters/Sampas group again.
Instead of any more attacks on
Nicosia's mental capacity, Rod, why
don't you print
"1400 Dots" here on the internet?
Afraid Mr. Sampas might
not sell you any
more Kerouac pieces if you do?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:17:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's questions, final chapter
Response to Paul
Maher:
The private individuals who purchased
MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and
BOOK OF DREAMS
manuscript were not professional dealers.
I don't claim to
have all the info
on this subject. I'm not, after all, a
private
investigator. I also don't think there has to be this huge
cloak of secrecy
over the whole
affair. If John Sampas has empowered
certain dealers to sell
Kerouac materials
only to the New York Public Library, or only to libraries,
I wish he'd step
forth and let us know. Everyone would
applaud that,
including me.
There's been a lot of games-playing
here, and I'm calling for an end
to it. Jack Kerouac is too important to American
literature to have people
playing
hide-and-seek with his archive.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:43:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: virtual Fillmore
Comments: To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
James and Leon:
Thanks for taking
me to the virtual Fillmore. I can see bashful Annie's face
as she tried to
remember (the) who. That's him on the corner.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:53:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila's questions, final chapter
Answer to Phil
Chaput's latest:
Jeffrey Weinberg told me he sold BOOK
OF DREAMS to a private
collector. Jeffrey and I don't always get along--we're
both hot-tempered,
feisty sorts--but
I have never accused him of dishonesty.
I think Jeffrey
is completely
honest and above-board, and I have never attacked him.
Moreover, unlike
Mr. Sampas, Ann Charters, and other Sampas supporters, he
has not been
totally cagey and evasive with me. Quite
the contrary, he has
talked to me
openly twice--for more than an hour each time--about how, why,
and to whom he
sold Kerouac artifacts. Bravo for that
honesty!!!
Sampas did not instruct Weinberg to sell
Kerouac artifacts only to
libraries. Quite the opposite, he told him to sell them
where they would
fetch the most
money. I hold nothing against him for
selling off pieces of
the Kerouac
archive. He was doing his job--dealers
take people's archives
and they sell
them, if asked to do so, for maximum profits.
If Jeffrey
hadn't taken on
the job, Sampas would quickly have found another dealer to
do that work for
him. He has, in fact, found other
dealers.
The fact is, I hate to drag Jeffrey
Weinberg into this here. I know
he doesn't need
this kind of publicity. But I'm really
getting tired of all
you folks
pretending that the great sell-off of Kerouac artifacts didn't happen.
I don't know what route the BOOK OF
DREAMS took back into the New
York Public
Library. But the fact is, all those
manuscripts were offered
for sale to
private dealers and collectors. Ken
Lopez, Richard Marcel,
James Musser, and
a host of other dealers will attest to this.
All these personal attacks on
me!!! Now I'm a bad guy for not
donating to a
committee that has tried everything in the book to keep me out
of Lowell. Oh, I suppose that's a lie too. Well let's get Brad Parker here
on the
Internet. Brad Parker is president of
the Lowell Corporation for the
Humanities. He was the person who arranged for me to come
and speak in
Lowell in 1988 at
the dedication of the Kerouac Memorial.
When people on
the Lowell
Kerouac Committee heard he was doing that, they tried everything
they could to
stop him. Paul Marion told him he would
"play hardball" with
him, lock up
every venue in town so that he'd have no place to put me, and
there were
suggestions that Parker's funding might be attacked as well. The
whole history of
this event, and how Parker finally triumphed in bringing
not only me but
also Jan to Lowell in 1988, is a saga in itself, which I'm
not going to bore
the BEAT-L readers with now. But after
all that, I should
donate to this
committee??? Jan's lawsuit was filed in
1994. Yet neither
Jan nor I were
invited from 1988 through 1993. And when
I showed up in 1993
and my event was
publicized by Michael McClure, both Parker and I were
called a
"son of a bitch!" by one of the leaders of the Lowell Kerouac
Committee, Roger
Brunelle. YOU'LL GET MY FIRST CHECK AS
SOON AS I GET MR.
BRUNELLE'S
APOLOGY.
"Keep my beef with John Sampas
private"? I'm not concerned about
John Sampas. He'll be wealthy for the rest of his life,
and I truly hope he
finds
happiness. Since you can't hear the tone
of my voice, I say that
WITHOUT A TRACE
OF SARCASM. I AM concerned about what
he's doing to a
national literary
treasure, the papers and manuscripts of Jack Kerouac
Bill Morgan was on the internet earlier
today, informing us that it
only took one
month for Ginsberg to complete his negotiations to get his
entire archive
(larger than Kerouac's) into Stanford.
Instead of all these distracting
attacks on Nicosia, why don't one
of you folks
simply answer the BIG QUESTION: WHAT IS
KEEPING MR. SAMPAS
FROM PUTTING JACK
KEROUAC'S ARCHIVE INTO A LIBRARY RIGHT NOW???
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:59:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
In a message
dated 97-05-03 23:33:53 EDT, you write:
<< I am
most
interested in, was the will forged, are the
papers safe and will the
ever really be accesible.
I do not wish to remember a jack k who didn't drink. or wasn't
sometimes an ass hole, or one that didn't
change literature into
something just a little more alive. I am
pretty sure he was at least
those three things.
patricia
>>
Patricia: I just
wrote Andrew who helped clarify an evening with Allen and
Jack and some
others whose names I couldn't remember. I told him what I
thought of the
Kerouac estate battle. I have similar conclusions as you.
Andrew:
Thanks for
helping me clarify the night. Yes, my wife Pam and I drove Allen
to the show in a
Mercedes that we were delivering to S.F. We natch tagged
with Allen because
he had to stay with us to drive to the Big Pink's house
and then to
Cherry Valley. I think Peter was in Cherry Valley. Ed Sanders
was already at
the Buckley show. We stayed the whole time and left with K, Ed
& Allen. I
think the other guys were with us at that time. Seems Allen
introduced us as
we were deciding on a bar.
I never saw Jack
after that night.
I'm interested in
the controversy (estate) in so far as I'd just like to know
who ends up being
the biggest chickenshit(s). Other than that, I'd like to
think that the
literary archives are available for scholars to study. I know
that there are
many fights over wills. Nothing unusual in that.
Yeah Robt Kelly
will be at Oneonta. He's a friend of Dr. Pat Meanor (who is
friends with
Allen's cousin, Joel Ghademak). Pat invited me to his beat
course and
invites authors such as Kelly to read there.
C.Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:21:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat-L T-shirts
Phil:
The artwork for
the T-shirt is being drawn by SF underground comix legend, S.
Clay Wilson. S.
Clay visited Charlie Plymell over Easter weekend and Charlie
put Wilson on
line to converse with the list - and we decided as a group to
approach Wilson
for the job of doing the artwork for a Beat-l T-shirt.
I spoke with S.
Clay last week, we negotiated some details, and I sent him a
check yesterday.
Wilson ran some ideas by me and I asked him to include the
Beat-L name and
internet address in the design.
Water Row Books
is sponsoring the shirts by contributing the funds needed to
pay Wilson and
have the shirts made. The shirts will be offered to Beat-L
members at cost
plus shipping.
I will keep the
list notified of the progress and will offer to send members
a copy of the
artwork if they want to see it first before buying one.
When the final
cost and shipping date are determined, I'll let the Beat-L
know.
Thanks -
Jeffrey Weinberg
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:35:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Public Domain
Some of you have inquired about the
seven Kerouac books that are in
public
domain. I mentioned two of them already,
the original limited
edition of
VISIONS OF CODY put out by New Directions in 1960, which is about
1/3 of the final
posthumous text; and BIG SUR.
I was about to mention the other five,
but got a note from the
director of
Northwestern University Press that I should look into this GATT
thing, of
recapturing lost copyrights. I had
always heard that once a book
was in public
domain, it stays there forever. OKAY,
before I go any further
here, I better do
my legal homework. If anybody knows
anything about this,
please let me
know.
I think it's a great idea a couple of
you had, to put these texts up
on the Web.
More on this subject later.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:49:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Estate Research
Both Rod and Mark
have suggested we each do our own research on the
"controversy"
prior to passing judgement. My question
is what sources are
being
suggested? I asked earlier for someone
to post a summary of the Ann
Charters article
and I hope someone does so. What other
evidence would
anyone suggest
that refutes what Gerry Nicosia has been telling us? Who
should we talk
to? What should we read?
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 02:06:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
At 08:06 PM
5/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 11:49 AM
5/3/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>Response
to Paul Maher's question:
>> What is all that Kerouac stuff doing in
the New York Public Library?
>> The NYPL has been building a
Beat/Kerouac collection since the 60's.
>>It is
indeed one of the best in the country.
One of their early
>>acquisitions
was the manuscript of SATORI IN PARIS, which supposedly Fred
>>Jordan
had simply held on to after Grove published the book. They have been
>>buying up
Kerouac/Beat stuff whenever and wherever they can find it--IF THEY
>>CAN AFFORD
IT. They reputedly bought a large
collection of stuff from Ann
>>Charters
last year for a quarter million bucks.
>> Both MEX CITY BLUES notebooks and BOOK
OF DREAMS manuscripts are in
>>the
NYPL. However, according to Jeffrey
Weinberg, both were sold to PRIVATE
>>COLLECTORS,
and later resold to the NYPL. There is
even a polaroid of the
>>BOOK OF
DREAMS notebook being sold to the private collector. Also, by the
>>way, Jack
typed several versions of MEX CITY BLUES, and I don't think the
>>library
has all those typed drafts--though I welcome Rodney Phillips (the
>>acquisition
librarian) or anyone else at the NYPL to comment on this.
>> Jan and I asked Rodney Phillips if he
had ever BOUGHT ANY KEROUAC
>>MATERIAL
DIRECTLY FROM SAMPAS. My recollection is
that he said no, though
>>there may
have been a few things (letters of Jack to Stella?) that Sampas
>>did sell
to the library. We asked why he hadn't
bought the manuscripts,
>>other
notebooks, etc., and he said the prices Sampas was asking were too
>>high. He did say that Sampas had DONATED A BUNCH OF
XEROXES OF KEROUAC
>>LETTERS
to the library.
>> Sampas also allowed the NYPL to SHOW
THE ON THE ROAD MANUSCRIPT,
>>without
selling it to them.
>> The NYPL would of course love to buy
the entire Kerouac archive, but
>>the most
they could pay for it is one million dollars (for everything,
>>thousands
of different pieces). Sampas has
declined to sell it to them at
>>that
price (apparently not enough).
>>
>From what I
understand when I called the NYPL...the OTR manuscript is on
deposit, a common
practice for things of that nature. Almost like a Picasso
on loan in a
museum from a private owner. The person there says that there
is a numerous
amount of material in the library already and even more
coming. Scholars
however rarely visit the archive. It is virtually unused!
All this talk
about research and the need for access and I've yet to see
more than five
scholarly articles published or that have come to light. I
think people need
to do more homework other than relying on one side of the
story. No offense
to Mr. Nicosia but I think some people are being unfair to
the Kerouac
Estate. They remain voiceless on this list but instead...they do
the talking with
all these things getting published! What is the problem! If
there are things
left out of letters then go to the NYPL or Mogan Center in
Lowell where
Gerry says there are "2000 letters" and research it! You may
not be able to
quote from the letters but it is no infringement for
paraphrasing!
That is scholarship. That is how literary history moves on.
Hell I'll publish
it in The Kerouac Quarterly if it is intellectually sound
and verified with
documentation. Please though, this endless pondering is
all just so many
words. You are all friends here united in the spirit of
Kerouac. Do
something to maintain that spirit instead of trying to put it
out. Goodnight.
Thanks for reading....Regards to all, Paul of TKQ.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:15:19 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Apollinaire's howl.
amici,
have someone noticed that ALCOOLS
written
by Guillaume Apollinaire is an howl,
ZONE
A la fin tu es las de ce monde ancien.
....
ciao a tutti,
vale! *rinaldo a not competent beet *
*
TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA! *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:15:17 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: t-shirt mania around the world
amici,
a crowd in milan has stopped to
see the greatest T-shirt in the
world,
a bunch of netsurfers invented
that such a thing,
<http://www.mailshirt.com>
the above site,
ciao a tutti,
vale! *rinaldo a not competent beet *
*
TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA! *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 07:04:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat-L T-shirts
In-Reply-To:
<970504012107_1221624602@emout02.mail.aol.com> from "Jeffrey
Weinberg" at May 4, 97 01:21:08
am
Jeffrey wrote:
> I will keep
the list notified of the progress and will offer to send members
> a copy of
the artwork if they want to see it first before buying one.
> When the
final cost and shipping date are determined, I'll let the Beat-L
> know.
A simpler method:
just scan the image, put it on a web page and
post the
URL? If you don't have a web server
handy, Jeffrey, send
me the artwork
and I'll do it.
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: May Day Blues-May Day Reds
Jo,
Loved your description of the May fest
- particularly since it was
completely
unknown to me. I grew up in Brooklyn and Connecticut; never heard
of the May Feast
or May baskets. Do you know any books that would describe
it? I haven't
searched the Web yet to see what I'd find.
By the way, it is Jo and not Joe,
right? I saw Gerald Nicosia using
Joe in a post and
wondered. I live in Montreal now, not too far from where
Rod Anstee lives,
and will be going up to see him / meet him face to face.
The material
being posted by you and by Gerald has all found its way into a
new mailbox for
me to print and review again at my leisure. Haven't visited
your site yet,
but will this week. Thanks again for all the info you've been
providing us.
I'm fifty and as I recall you're about
fifteen years older. What got
you into this
stuff and the world of the Web? Was it a natural outgrowth of
your earlier
life? Apologies if I'm being too prying, but I'm fascinated by
the Web community
that can form so quickly around a topic/interest and how
revealing people
can be. It has led, for instance to Derek Bealieu and Marie
Countryman arranging to meet here in Montreal with me
end of June /
beginning of
July. They were aghast when I suggested that mmaybe we should
invite Rod down
from Ottawa for one of the days!
Regards, Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah
Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:26:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
Dear Gerry:
I think my first
conversations with Stanford librarians was in April 1994 and
the contract
officially selling the collection was in Aug. 1994, what's the
date of your
poster signing conversation?
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:30:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsy's position on "the
squabble"
Jerry:
Sorry, I'm not
willing to enter this fray except to clarify any factual
matters. I don't believe that I can speak for Allen's
thoughts and I don't
know of any
writings by him on the subject, although somewhere there may be
letters to
friends addressing it.
Yours,
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:31:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cornix?
In-Reply-To:
<97May3.205557-0400_edt.587271-32661+4246@skywalker.microtec.net>
On Sat, 3 May
1997, Antoine Maloney wrote:
> What's the Cornix web applet that you
refer to?
It takes a body
of ascii text and flashes it on the screen, a word at a time
-- think of it as
viewing a text via flash cards. The company that makes it
has done lots of
work in the area of speed reading, etc. and maintain that
this technique
allows for maximum comprehension of a work in minimum time.
I've tried it
with several texts (including a Burroughs novel I found
online) and feel
that it's worthy of exploration. Because let's face it, it
is usually easier
and quicker to read something on paper than on a computer
screen. It
doesn't have to be this way -- it _shouldn't_ -- but current
computer
interfaces usually try to mimic a virtual piece of paper rather
than do something
original (of which the possibilities with computers are
endless), so we
end up staring at our screens going, "Is this all there is?"
> >I heard
there was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR. I want to
> >use the
Cornix web applet (http://www.halcyon.com/chigh/corndemo.html) on
> >said
ASCII file of OTR to view it word-at-a-time on giant screens.
>
> On big screens? Why?
Just for dramatic
effect, really. It would certainly pass on my 17" monitor,
but if I
connected my computer to, say, a 36" screen, I could sit back on
the couch in my
living room and watch the words flash by on the screen
across the room.
It would enable a group of people to read the same book at
the same time...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 08:44:59 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the
hell
In-Reply-To:
<970504113016_-399843355@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "William
Morgan" at May 4, 97
11:30:17 am
Okay, Gerry --
here's a curve-ball for ya ...
About a year
before she died, Jan Kerouac gave permission, through
a mutual
acquaintance of ours named Ralph Virgo, for me to run an
excerpt from her
unpublished novel "Parrot Fever" in Literary Kicks.
I liked the
excerpt a lot, and when I began putting together an
anthology of
selected original fiction from the web (which will finally
be on the
bookshelves this summer) I thought of including the piece.
Jan had died by
this time, so I contacted you as holder of her
copyrights.
We tried to come
to terms for using the piece in the book and couldn't
(unfortunately
this book is being done at a very slim budget) but you
then insisted I
stop running the excerpt in Literary Kicks, and stated
this to me in no
uncertain legal terms. Being a mellow,
happy-go-lucky
kind of guy who
has no wish to ever go to court, I quickly removed the
piece, making no
public fuss about it, and that was the end of that
story.
But now when I
hear your intense and passionate calls for John Sampas
to immediately
yield control of the Jack Kerouac archives by donating it
all to a public
library, I wonder if you will in that spirit allow me to
re-install Jan
Kerouac's excerpt at my site, which is just as public and
just as
non-profit (or more) as any public library?
Or is it that you
don't like
somebody forcing your hand and have various public and personal
reasons for not
wanting to do this, and if so, how are you behaving any
differently than
John Sampas?
Please answer
this without bringing up either Paul Blake, Stella Sampas,
Adolf Hitler or
anybody else who has nothing to do with it!
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 08:45:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bonnie Lee Howard
<howardb@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for Help
:-)
Hello Beat-L,
Wow. Been a long
time. I first joined this list right after my father, Don
Carpenter, died
in July 1995. Back then I was looking for advice on how to
handle his
estate, as he named me his literary executor. At that time I
took the advice
of a friend and did nothing. Needed to heal first. So now
I'm back, life
has calmed down, and I am once again in the position of
asking you
knowledgable folks for some help.
What I have are
boxes and boxes of papers, letters, chapbooks, posters,
etc. from the
Beat era. My father used to arrange poetry readings in S.F.
during the early
60's. So I have stuff, besides my dad's, of Lew Welch,
Allen Ginsberg,
Gary Snyder, Michael McClure, Phil Whalen, etc. I think
what needs to
happen is to have all this stuff organized and appraised,
and then I can
decide what the heck to do with it all. A friend suggested
that I get Andreas
Brown, who handled the Ginsberg/Stanford archive deal
(I think) to help
me. Any advice you all have would be appreciated. I care
a great deal
about where my father's things eventually end up. I would
like writers and
students and the public to be able to access them for
research
purposes. Right now I am against the idea of separating things
and selling them
off piece by piece to collectors. But as the estate's
executor, I have
to do the best I can, financially, for the estate and its
beneficiaries.
Damn. Suddenly I feel just as lost and confused as I was
two years ago.
While I'm here, I
thought I'd throw in a few more comments :-) Re:
Ginsberg and
Dylan...my mom recalls being at a party in S.F. with both
Allen and Dylan.
I'm thinking this probably wasn't when they first met,
but it had to
have been around 1963 or so...Orlovsky had a cast on his
leg, if that
helps set the time more accurately.
And one more
thing...I am helping a friend do some research on Ginsberg
for a possible
biography. Does anyone know how we could get hold of a copy
of the transcript
of the HOWL obscenity trial? I did a rather rudimentary
search yesterday,
and see that Lawrence Ferlinghetti wrote a book about
it, called _Howl
of the Censor_, but it seems to be out-of-print. And is
Judge Clayton
Horn, who presided, still alive?
I guess that's
enough for one post :-) It's nice to be back and reading
you all again. Is
Dan Barth still here? If so...hello!!!
Thanks so very
much,
Bonnie Howard
howardb@sonoma.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 19:59:27 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
aulica vita,
splndida miseria.
vale! *
the beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:05:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: censorship of letters
I quote from
"ANN CHARTERS BEAT SCENE INTERVIEW," in BEAT SCENE 24, spring 1996:
Ann Charters is
being interviewed by Dan Barth:
DB: "As far
as you know has there been any selling off piecemeal [of
Kerouac's papers,
etc.]?"
AC: "There
has been some.* I don't know how much
because Sampas doesn't
tell me. Why should he? I'm not getting any income from it and I
don't,
frankly, have a
relationship with John Sampas that is one of a confidante.
I work for hire,
his terms. HE GETS THE FINAL SAY ON
EVERYTHING. [italics
mine] In other words, if he doesn't want a letter
because he thinks it's
unflattering to
Phil Wahlen and he doesn't want to embarrass Phil--and there
was one incident
where the four dots was because Kerouac was joking about
Phil Whalen's
sexual experiences, shall we say; I'm trying to be as bland as
possible here--I
think John was completely within his rights.
I thought it
was kind of
funny, but John said, "Hey, he's an old man, Phil Whalen, and he
doesn't want that
stuff circulating."** Someday there
will be the Complete
Letters of Jack
Kerouac. Everyone will be dead,
including me, and you
perhaps, although
I hope not, and we'll have all those things.
There will
be no four
dots."
*One of the
reasons Ann Charters knew there was "some" selling is because
she bought some
of those items from the Kerouac archive for her own collection.
**I know Phil
Whalen quite well; he never asked John Sampas to censor
Kerouac's letters
on his behalf. Phil has a great sense of
humor about
sexuality and
everything else, and he would be the last person to want his
history with the
Beats rewritten.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:17:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED
> No offense
to Mr. Nicosia but I think some people are being unfair to
>the Kerouac
Estate. They remain voiceless on this list but instead...they do
>the talking
with all these things getting published! What is the problem! If
>there are
things left out of letters then go to the NYPL or Mogan Center in
>Lowell where
Gerry says there are "2000 letters" and research it! You may
>not be able
to quote from the letters but it is no infringement for
>paraphrasing!
To Paul Maher: indeed there are 2,000
Kerouac letters (in xerox) in
the MEMORY BABE
collection at U Mass, Lowell, Special Collections (the Mogan
Center) plus 300
taped interviews with people who knew Kerouac,
transcriptions of
those interviews, letters to me, etc.
(although as you
know 60 of the
letters to me have disappeared).
The problem is, my archive has been
closed to the public. This
happened about
two years ago, after John Sampas went to speak with the
librarian, to
complain that the public should not have access to this
material without
his permission. I am currently working
on a breach of
contract suit
against the university, because I was assured during
negotiations that
this material would all be made freely available to the
public for study.
In the meantime, the 300 tapes (on
cheap cassettes) have never even
been duplicated
by the university, and are now seriously deteriorating. If
this
deterioration is allowed to continue, we will lose precious primary
source material,
interviews with over 100 people who are now dead (Ted
Berrigan, John Clellan
Holmes, Kenneth Rexroth, Robert Duncan, Bob Kaufman,
Kerouac's three
wives, et al.) which can never be gathered again.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:20:27 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: hooooo! I'M A BEET
'005Y89U+531K=F2N CA NZ
+L=F2M=E0E2FK+VP
KV qmn
onhapvihrwq gty72+=F956 81682 B(q2n=F2k2qr
i04242 =20
+friends,
what chauvinism?
are'u usofam relatad
but i'm conviced
A BEET IS COSMOPOLITAN
ARE U SAFE!
vale!
Rinaldo.-
aaaaaaaahtrgsuysuhsajcqBNHIP
HBVRPWQ
NHVGVPQ
bp'=F9=E8
lllllllllllllllg5ki+=E8p06=EC4'0u=EC97uy2
=EC9q+kirw vgkbwrghp
<
CSACKMNVDNVWMLKDVOI0
5'058'585966 6
l,mlvkdavnksvHUVF++8942U4939U3198'4=F9=EC
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:21:33 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED
if u rrelate jk
only in usa the thing is less...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:22:08 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censorship of letters
allen ginsgebrg
was censored! not only jk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:22:47 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
the history comes
when yhe thing are awright...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:23:31 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Cornix?
if the poetry
comes to hardwired this is
awright!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:25:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censorship of letters
what's up only ag
is censored!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:26:14 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
in italy what's
happen, sorry how u are speakin' in NYC
frank zappa from
the heaven...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:28:23 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
jk is UNIVERSAL
POETRY WHAT'S ARE U SPEAKING ATTILA?
OFF BROADWAY
SCENE?
* THE BEET *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:29:21 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Estate Research
JK IS AN UNIVERAL
GUY WHAT'S ARE U SPEAKING?
* TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:29:57 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: virtual Fillmore
PAmela who is?
the beet
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:30:43 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
only AG who's
censored guys!
the beet
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:31:03 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: t-shirts
great!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:41:16 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: t-shirts
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> great!!
The shirt site is
great, Rinaldo. Is the model a friend of
yours?
beeten in
California--or I guess elf abuse would be to beet your meet
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:02:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED
>If one were
to contact the estate then...one would have access with
permission. I
would assume you would have to have a legitimate reason to
want to go in
there. Research is one legitimate reason. Just wanting to see
the archives is
not. If I'm not mistaken...most archives are like that. I
know that's the
way with the Hemingway archives in Boston or the Whittier
archives in
Haverhill, Massachusetts or the Faulkner collection. What would
make Kerouac any
different?
Kerouac's
letteres belong to the estate so naturally...you would need the
estate's
permission to see them. The tapes I assume would be a different
matter
altogether. There are many living voices on those tapes. The Estate
does not own
those...they do however have a say about the letters. Sad
enough but true
nonetheless. I can't see anything wrong with that set up.
That is standard
protocol with every major collection holding primary
resources.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:19:43 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: T-SHIRT AD (CALL BENETTON A fiend of
mine)
argues the beet
(be[a]t remember the mcarthy interview):
italian style by
fiorucci (not ad in this hit) is a lot
greet than
everything in the world u know, now i suppose
the Beat-L goto
the T-shirt to Fiorucci, i presume, like
Ferlinghetti go
in florence for his Light bookstore, i
as a venetian guy
disappointed!...
a T-shirt creates
in USA is off!! really friends tell me!
* rinaldo *
* the beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:21:15 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED
jk write his works
w/out puntactiuon what's u are following?
the street is yr
place.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:20:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: how to resubscribe
excuse this
interruption, i sure know how annoying it can be to
longstanding
beat-list members.
i've been away,
and i need the email address for the server so i can get
back onto the
Beat-l.
thanks,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:45:29 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Beat-L T-shirts
At 07.04 04/05/97
-0700, you wrote:
>Jeffrey
wrote:
>> I will
keep the list notified of the progress and will offer to send members
>> a copy
of the artwork if they want to see it first before buying one.
>> When the
final cost and shipping date are determined, I'll let the Beat-L
>> know.
>
>A simpler
method: just scan the image, put it on a web page and
>post the
URL? If you don't have a web server
handy, Jeffrey, send
>me the
artwork and I'll do it.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro
Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>>From
CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!owner-beat-l Sun May 4
16:15:06 1997
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Received:
from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by gpnet.it with esmtp using sendmail
> (Smail3.2.0.90 #1) id m0wO24A-000rJOC;
Sun, 4 May 1997 16:15:06 +0200 (MET
DST)
>Received:
from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a)
with SMTP id
<2.CA1D6D22@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:15:04 +0100
>Received:
from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with
> NJE id 0386 for
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU; Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:17
-0400
>Received:
from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail
> V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 4731; Sun,
4 May 1997 10:13:44 -0400
>Received:
from skywalker.microtec.net by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3)
> with TCP; Sun, 04 May 97 10:13:42 EDT
>Received:
from pool6-3.odyssee.net ([204.50.77.99]) by skywalker.microtec.net
> with SMTP id <586070-32661>;
Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:43 -0400
>X-Sender:
stratis@mail.odyssee.net
>X-Mailer:
Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
>Mime-Version:
1.0
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Message-ID:
<97May4.101443-0400_edt.586070-32661+4495@skywalker.microtec.net>
>Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 10:14:40 -0400
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
>Subject: Re: May Day Blues-May Day Reds
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Jo,
>
> Loved your description of the May fest
- particularly since it was
>completely
unknown to me. I grew up in Brooklyn and Connecticut; never heard
>of the May
Feast or May baskets. Do you know any books that would describe
>it? I haven't
searched the Web yet to see what I'd find.
>
> By the way, it is Jo and not Joe,
right? I saw Gerald Nicosia using
>Joe in a post
and wondered. I live in Montreal now, not too far from where
>Rod Anstee
lives, and will be going up to see him / meet him face to face.
>The material
being posted by you and by Gerald has all found its way into a
>new mailbox
for me to print and review again at my leisure. Haven't visited
>your site
yet, but will this week. Thanks again for all the info you've been
>providing us.
>
> I'm fifty and as I recall you're about
fifteen years older. What got
>you into this
stuff and the world of the Web? Was it a natural outgrowth of
>your earlier
life? Apologies if I'm being too prying, but I'm fascinated by
>the Web
community that can form so quickly around a topic/interest and how
>revealing
people can be. It has led, for instance to Derek Bealieu and Marie
>Countryman arranging to meet here in Montreal with me
end of June /
>beginning of
July. They were aghast when I suggested that mmaybe we should
>invite Rod
down from Ottawa for one of the days!
>
> Regards, Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>
amici,
a crowd in milan has stopped to
see the greatest T-shirt in the
world,
a bunch of netsurfers invented
that such a thing,
<http://www.mailshirt.com>
the above site,
ciao a tutti,
vale! *rinaldo a not competent beet *
*
TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA! *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:46:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's questions, final chapter
jk is gone ag is
gone
what'$ u are told
?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:48:42 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
only AG was
censored what's are u serching for?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:50:27 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censorship of letters
only allen
ginsberg was
censopred what
mess are u
talk 'bout?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:51:44 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
only allen ginsberg
was the p'oet
censored not too bad if jk not
keep tjhe same
thing!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:53:11 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters article on Estate Battle
the estate (in
italiano estate = summer english)
is a matter of
attorney nor for beet
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:54:16 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Dylan-Plymell
dylan-dos-dylan-thomas-who're
u pamela? holmes asks.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:56:06 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
i was jaled with
mexico city blues in my
poket, are u mad
to exibit an suit 'bout
this =F9matter
a beet
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:56:54 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
only
AG
was
censored
tutti giu' per
terra!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:58:35 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Dylan-Plymell
dylan-u are, in
my opinion out of the mind of the universe
the beeeet
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:59:40 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: New Q's for Nicosia
keep
yr
head
in
yr
hands
* the beet
*
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:01:05 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
attila devasted
venice italy in earlier times,
so i for my
ancestor i beg his pardon..
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:02:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
what's are do u
gouing?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:02:58 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
there's a world
that is ignoring that stuff but
loves jk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:03:57 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Ginsy's position on "the
squabble"
paranoia is the
train's not in arrive
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:04:34 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
don't
comin'further
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:04:59 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's questions, final chapter
legacy what's
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:58:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: censorship of letters
Rinaldo, I have
so enjoyed most of your postings.
I am confused by
this latest flurry of postings, I
believe many of the
beats were
censored in a variety of ways, and the thread title you were
responding to was
describing a specific example of one type of
censorship.
I only found a
booby type girl with half of a tee shirt on when i
visited the tee
shirt site, Is that kind of tee shirt
what is popular
in europe now?
love
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:05:37 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Jake Barnes is beat (was "More
on dope")
stop that's
attorney trhread please
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:07:14 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: New Q's for Nicosia
there is an
island in mediterranea sea?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:07:50 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: more on dope
please, have a
lot of funny in yr replies
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:08:20 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: New Q's for Nicosia
& ciprus is
near ?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:09:25 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's questions, final chapter
attila destroyed
venice
'cuz of i'm a bit
disappointing
* the beet *
* sant erasmo island *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:11:43 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: The Literary
Influences of Jack Kerouac
another lit
influence , it's springtime , guys
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:05:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: (no subject)high spirits
rinaldo. ok with
me if you stop your one liners and delete the threads
you don't want to
read. Is this called flooding? My
daughter says it is
flooding, she is
eleven, says that this is a way of tying up the list so
the messages
allowed per day are used up. i being a facimile old lady
says it is a guy
in an afternoon of high spirits who is just plain bored
with jk estate
matters
p
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:12:07 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: For Charles Plymell
funny pamela
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:12:55 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Public Domain
At 17.07 02/05/97
-0700, you wrote:
>This means
that these books that are in the public domain can be posted on
>the internet.
>
>It is too bad
that Paul Blake cannot get royalties for them, but as they
>are in the
public domain, someone ought to get busy and get them up.
>
>How about a
beat-l ftp site?
>
>What books
are in the public domain?
>
yes the say the
bonnot band of anarchist
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:13:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: More on dope
At 19.41 02/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Blowing in
the wind or pissing in the wind?
>C. Plymell
>
>
have a break
* the beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:15:12 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On the Road - Uncut
if OTR was a am
lit why it's cut?
*the beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:19:18 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: how to resubscribe
At 16.20 04/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>excuse this
interruption, i sure know how annoying it can be to
>longstanding
beat-list members.
>
>i've been
away, and i need the email address for the server so i can get
>back onto the
Beat-l.
>
>thanks,
>Eric
>rhs4@crystal.palace.net
>
LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
SUBscribe BEAT-L
Robert H. Sapp
tutti giu' per terra!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:19:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
At 08:44 AM
5/4/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Okay, Gerry
-- here's a curve-ball for ya ...
>
>About a year
before she died, Jan Kerouac gave permission, through
>a mutual
acquaintance of ours named Ralph Virgo, for me to run an
>excerpt from
her unpublished novel "Parrot Fever" in Literary Kicks.
>I liked the
excerpt a lot, and when I began putting together an
>anthology of
selected original fiction from the web (which will finally
>be on the
bookshelves this summer) I thought of including the piece.
>Jan had died
by this time, so I contacted you as holder of her
>copyrights.
>
>We tried to
come to terms for using the piece in the book and couldn't
>(unfortunately
this book is being done at a very slim budget) but you
>then insisted
I stop running the excerpt in Literary Kicks, and stated
>this to me in
no uncertain legal terms. Being a
mellow, happy-go-lucky
>kind of guy
who has no wish to ever go to court, I quickly removed the
>piece, making
no public fuss about it, and that was the end of that
>story.
>
>But now when
I hear your intense and passionate calls for John Sampas
>to
immediately yield control of the Jack Kerouac archives by donating it
>all to a
public library, I wonder if you will in that spirit allow me to
>re-install
Jan Kerouac's excerpt at my site, which is just as public and
>just as
non-profit (or more) as any public library?
Or is it that you
>don't like
somebody forcing your hand and have various public and personal
>reasons for
not wanting to do this, and if so, how are you behaving any
>differently
than John Sampas?
>
>Please answer
this without bringing up either Paul Blake, Stella Sampas,
>Adolf Hitler
or anybody else who has nothing to do with it!
>
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
Dear Levi, May 4, 1997
For days I've been pinned down in a
crossfire between Joe Chaput and
Rod Anstee, and
now I feel I'm taking fire from you too.
How bout someone
give me a chance
to catch my breath? Or is this all-out
guerrilla warfare?
OK, I'm sure I explained to you, that
my problem from the start as
Jan's literary
executor has been that her heir, exhusband John Lash, has
been seeking
desperately for some grounds to dismiss me (so he can complete
his deal with
John Sampas). I told you to take the
never-published PARROT
FEVER from your
web site because, potentially, John Lash could go before the
Albuquerque court
and say: "Look, Nicosia is GIVING AWAY OUR [his and Jan's
half-brother's]
PROPERTY. He has now diminished the
earning power of PARROT
FEVER by letting
this guy Asher print it for nothing."
That's far-fetched, I know, but Lash
has already said things even
more far-fetched
than that to the Albuquerque court.
Of course I want to make Jan's work
available. She wanted me to put
her entire
archive in the Bancroft library for scholars to look at, but Lash
has frustrated me
there too by locking up all her stuff in his lawyer's
vault. Recently the court even ORDERED LASH TO SEND
ME JAN'S PAPERS, but he
still hasn't
complied.
So let's make a trade-off here. Until the Appellate Court in Santa
Fe makes a final
ruling on the extent of my powers, I'm not going to give
Mr. Lash any
ammunition concerning how careless I am with his property.
What I can do is
give you permission to print an equal amount of Jan's work
(equal no. of
words) as was in the PARROT FEVER excerpt, from either of her
out-of-print
books BABY DRIVER or TRAINSONG. You tell
me what excerpt you
want, what page
to what page, and I'll fax you a letter of permission.
Since those books were published and
had their run years ago,
there's less
grounds for Mr. Lash to say I "lost money for him" than if I
gave away parts
of a new Jan Kerouac novel.
I think I explained to you that, though
a literary executor can
himself give
permission, he/she does not have an absolute power; and all my
decisions are
subject to review by the court, especially if Mr. Lash calls
for that review.
John Sampas is not under the same tight
rein since he is answerable
only to his
family.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:28:30 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: censorship of letters
patricia argues:
>Rinaldo, I
have so enjoyed most of your postings.
>I am confused
by this latest flurry of postings, I
believe many of the
>beats were
censored in a variety of ways, and the thread title you were
>responding to
was describing a specific example of one type of
>censorship.
>I only found
a booby type girl with half of a tee shirt on when i
>visited the
tee shirt site, Is that kind of tee
shirt what is popular
>in europe
now? love
>patricia
>
no mention of
T-shirt (that's fiorucci it's a must, agree with me)
but i'm concerned
'bout the list is usa centric, i loved ,really,
USofA but if i
heard that jk is submitt in lawsuit by its writings
i'm disapponting
like Omero or shakespeare was limited in his
emoticons by the
state of a state
* anarchist &beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:31:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE CLOSED
At 03:02 PM
5/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>If one
were to contact the estate then...one would have access with
>permission. I
would assume you would have to have a legitimate reason to
>want to go in
there... they do however have a say about the letters. Sad
>enough but
true nonetheless. I can't see anything wrong with that set up.
>That is
standard protocol with every major collection holding primary
>resources.
>
Dear Paul: May 4, 1997
No, it's not "standard
protocol." Mr. Sampas does not in
fact have
the legal power
to keep you from reading anything by Jack Kerouac.
Otherwise I could
not have done the research I did. You
(as I did) can walk
into Bancroft
Library, the U. of Texas Humanities Research Center, UC Davis,
Reed College, or
any number of other major libraries in this country that
have Kerouac
letters on file, and you can read them and take notes on them
(as I did)
without the Sampas family's permission.
Ferlinghetti's archive in Berkeley
(Bancroft) contains letters,
writings, tapes,
etc. from several thousand different people, and you don't
need permission
from a single one of them to use the archive for scholarly
purposes. You only need Ferlinghetti's permission.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:32:22 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: (no subject)high spirits
patrica (i love
u):
>rinaldo. ok
with me if you stop your one liners and delete the threads
>you don't
want to read. Is this called flooding?
My daughter says it is
>flooding, she
is eleven, says that this is a way of tying up the list so
>the messages
allowed per day are used up. i being a facimile old lady
>says it is a
guy in an afternoon of high spirits who is just plain bored
>with jk
estate matters
>p
>
my nephwew (a
girl 17 old) i interested 'bout jk on the road
today ask me form
the book, & if the uncle is the better friend
i promised to
give she, but what's she came next month in internet
connection,
or/and in b-list what's up the matter jk lawsuits?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:41:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: censored Kerouac letters
In a message
dated 97-05-03 17:58:20 EDT, you write:
<< He dictated to Ann Charters what Kerouac
letters could be published, and
> which ones couldn't, and which parts had
to be censored.
>>
Supposedly, Ann
Charters was hired by John Sampas to edit the letters book.
Ann has mentioned
in public forums in response to questions about this, that
she was working
for Sampas at the time, hence the fact that she did what was
requested while
still trying to maintain her scholarly professionalism. She
also mentioned
that she is confident that years from now, when all this
brouhaha dies
down, that she envisions somebody coming out with a complete
letters book.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:53:18 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On the Road - Uncut
not too lawsuit
'bout jk take a break smell the java...
*the beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:54:07 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On the Road - Uncut
not a lawsuit jk
smell the coffe & relax
*the beet from
venice,italy*
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:06:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
jk is not
censored as ag
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:07:05 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Jake Barnes is beat (was "More
on dope")
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
the beat is a
beet
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:15:05 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Your current flood
James:
>Return-Path:
<stauffer@pacbell.net>
>Date: Sun, 04
May 1997 15:07:08 -0700
>From: James
Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
>Reply-To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
>To: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>
>Subject: Your
current flood
>
>Rinaldo.
>
>I enjoy your
posts. They are funny.
>
>However. The Beat-L only acceptsl 50 messages a
day. Let someone else
>talk. I'm sick of the Kerouac estate thing too, but
it is important to
>other
people. 40 or so posts a day should be
plenty. Go smoke a
>joint. Take a break.
Look at the wonderful tits on the girl on the
>t-shirt
page. Everytime I turn on the computer
there are another 15
>messages from
you.
>
>James
>
>
i smell java but
i can't stop my mouse sorry
* the beeet *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:17:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Subject: More than enough
How many Rinaldo Rasas does it take to
dangle on the end of a
thread? Has he cloned himself?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:02:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
rinaldo
my god go outside
and breath some fresh air
----------
: From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re: On
the Road - UnCut
: Date: Sunday,
May 04, 1997 5:06 PM
:
: jk is not
censored as ag
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:30:12 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
jk was not
censored
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:30:44 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: More on dope
>Isn't it
pretty to think so!
>
u are joking?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:32:20 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Attila's questions con'd -- Kerouac
Estate Fight
gottcha!! with
this stuff of jk estate please, the image
of jk is in the
sky,
*the beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:33:14 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
jk was a mith
wat's up to censored Virgilius?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:34:31 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On The Road - UnCut
the server is the
minus what are u doing?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:36:09 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: On The Road - UnCut
u lost in the fog
the mind why jk is cutted
ag more cutted
& considered a clown...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:33:51 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: On the Road - UnCut
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> jk was not
censored
Rinaldo and i
have been writing back and forth about this and many other
beautiful
subjects for about an hour now.
i think that
Rinaldo may be correct in that "censorship" may not be the
proper word to
use for whatever has occurred with regards to the letters
now. i recognize that there are many different
meanings, connotations
and what-not for
anything such as "censorship", but i think that perhaps
there is a better
word for whatever it is that people are mentioning
concerning JK's
writings. there is at least some level of
difference in
the kinds of
restrictions involved in the cases of AG and JK's writings.
i have racked my
poor Kansas brain and attempted to consult the great
vortex for a
better word to describe the current questions relating to
JK's writings
than censorship. the vortex was closed
unfortunately --
for repairs I
suppose -- and i haven't come up with the proper word yet,
but i do believe
that there is one out there somewhere that better
describes the
subject and yet distinguishes from the censorship of
Ginsberg as
Rinaldo has expressed.
sincerely,
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:39:58 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Anstee, Nicosia, & Kerouac Estate
Fight
oh, an attorney
is enough
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:43:18 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Why is there no hippie literature
no more 50
messages?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:44:45 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: apologies
as gif image now
i'm considering to limit my writing...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 19:11:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Rinaldo!
Rinaldo!!!
What the heck you
been smokin' got you so fired up?
25 e-mails all
from Rinaldo in one day saying "stop the lawsuits, make love
not war"
etc?
Rinaldo, there's
been a lawsuit, a couple really, here in the US that's
gotten a lot of
attention in the press and now is being
discussed/argued/examined
on the Beat-L. Don't expect it to go
away. Delete
the posts, read
them to learn what you can, comment if it makes sense, but
Jeez-Louise (or
Jean Louis) stop the one-liners!
Please!
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 19:15:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Your explosion of e-mail!
Comments: cc:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
rinaldo,
What's with this explosion of e-mail?
I'm trying to figure out if
you're just
annoyed about all the talk about the estate questions, or if
you've found a
neat program that allows you to pump out tons of one-line
replies to posts
from the Beat list. Give us a little break and slow down
the pace.
We need more poetry and commentary and
less heat!
Is Sant Erasmos Island where you live
in Venice?
Thanks Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 19:56:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.1229.emout05.mail.aol.com.862790182
Content-ID:
<0_1229_862790182@emout05.mail.aol.com.5505>
Content-type:
text/plain
I have attached a
response to Ron Anstee's post to me: I
figured ANYONE who
was gonna
casually slip in a claim to have written a better book than DOCTOR
SAX was just
plain asking for it! I liked your elegant reply, mind you, about
learning
self-promotion from the best -- as I told JHW a while back, I've
grown to enjoy
your clear-eyed, cut-through-the surface-noise, and
watch-the-details
postings.
Yes, I have LAST
OF THE MOCCASINS here, red cover, $3 on the back...I haven't
read LAST since
about 1975. (SAX I re-read pretty regularly.) So let me go
read it again. If
we're to lock horns, which I don't think is necessary, but
maybe they're
expecting it, YOU have to go re-read DOCTOR SAX, fair?
Charles Plymell
PS: If the
download doesn't work, please let us know.
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.1229.emout05.mail.aol.com.862790182
Content-ID:
<0_1229_862790182@emout05.mail.aol.com.5506>
Content-type:
text/plain;
name="DRSAX.LOM"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
DR. SAX vs LAST OF THE
MOCCASINS
=0D
The Kerouac
estate battle is of interest to me, and I've also been intere=
sted in Kerouac
recently. I
haven't wanted to use the Beat-L so that there was plenty of =
time for the
important, but
typical battle of wills. Soon it will play out, and for pu=
rely selfish
reasons,
I can't wait to
see who will emerge as the Johnsons, or who will emerge a=
s the Shits. (To
apply the
Burroughs aphorism gained from his attentive ear for truths spo=
ken by a black
drag queen long
ago.)
=0D
A while back, Ron
Anstee challenged me to a friendly bout to defend my cl=
aim (actually
a claim from a
review written by Hugh Fox.) I'm ready to step in the ring=
now. (Funny
how those sports
metaphors are useful.) He sent me an interesting post su=
mmarizing his
feelings about
Kerouac's work and said he would read my City Lights editi=
on of Last of
the Moccasins, if
I'd read Dr. Sax. With the compliments of Jeff, I've be=
en sent D.S. and
have been reading
it and thinking about it with a great deal of pleasure.=
=0D
The C.L. edition was written in one swoop and
sent to City Lights. Thoug=
h I expected
editorial work,
it was published as was, with many errors. The book then =
was published
by Europa Verlag
in Austria and was reprinted in this country by Mother R=
oad. One
review from
Mitteilungsblatt Bibliotheken Germany (equivalent of Library =
Journal) said
"Plymell is
a lineal successor to Burroughs, Kerouac and Ginsberg and he =
proffers that
the literature of
the Beat Generation hasn't lost anything of its freshne=
ss and unfailing
honesty to talk
about personal experience and self assessment." And from =
England,
Andrew Darlington
wrote in Ludd's Mill that LOM..."was circulating among =
the
Yorkshire Poets,
a single copy changing hands, working its way through th=
e City Lights
sub culture and
becoming the centre of a cult in its own right." =
=0D
The only
schooling I had in Kerouac was what Neal read me about himself, =
mainly in
OTR and Allen
reading Mexico City Blues to me at Gough St. S. F. 1963. Th=
ough we
never discussed
much poetry, this was one time a literary learning experi=
ence was real,
a changing of the
guard, so to speak.
=0D
I will have to
quote some reviews that establish and compare my writing t=
o Kerouac
because many
people are unfamiliar with my work which have been mostly se=
minal for
one reason for
another. Also I'm in a peculiar position of defending my r=
eviewers. For
that reason, I
would like to quote some reviewers who talk about the styl=
es and make
comparisons in
the first place. Rod will say that is self advertising, I'=
ll quote Magritte:
Ceci n'est pas
une pipe. I just hope when the bout is over Rod won't do t=
he "I knew
Jack
K., and I worked
with Jack K., and you're no J.K. routine." I am clearly =
the underdog
here. This was my
first and only published prose book, etc. and I plan to=
say where I felt
on the mat and
where K gave it everything he had: his own word hoard barr=
age, and
great literary
style hoards. Remember, I was up against a seasoned pro wi=
th a few books
under his belt.
And I may not even win this match. And my literary estate=
is valued at
only $91. So
don't bet too much. It has been an inspiring lesson. Some on=
the list were
asking about
hippy literature. My book is not about hippies though it inc=
luded some
hippy scenes.
Even the connotation of the word has rendered a definition =
synonymous
with
"Trend". I was at least in the "hispter" era too.
=0D
Literature didn't
begin and end with the Beat Generation.
Some of you kn=
ow Charles
Potts of Tsunami,
Inc. who publishes The Temple. In the last issue there =
was a poem by
Michael Finely,
which, in my opinion would put much of the poetry of the =
beat
generation to
shame. Anyway, Potts wrote in a review about LOM when it fi=
rst came out
that:
"Moccasins for short is better written than all of Kerouac except f=
or Desolation
Angels."
Boy, that's enough to make your blood boil! I have other quotes =
from reviews
about LOM that
put me in the beat camp.
=0D
There are only about three sections of Dr. Sax
that I found uneven. I c=
hecked out the
K Portable Reader
from the library. When I read the selections from Dr. S=
ax in that, I
thought this was
going to be a cakewalk. I felt I had it all over him. Th=
en Jeff's copy
arrived with some
funny notations from him. I'm glad I didn't have to jud=
ge the book by
the excerpts in K
Portable Reader. The first chapters gave me a the feeli=
ng that K was
sparring, not
doing much; there was a lot of play on language, some good =
nonsense
writing. So I had
a good childhood memory ear too. He was setting a tone =
of Burlesque,
which would
gradually evolve to metaphysical wit, the allegory. =
=0D
He did have a few
remarkable lines, which if pastiched, could easily be a=
s great
symbolism/surrealism
as Rimbaud/H. Crane. Yet I felt he overreached with =
some of the
word/phrase
inventions. He was not effective: sometimes, I thought, class=
ic bathos.
=0D
I thought I could
take this sucker now! But a good local color story seem=
ed to be
developing by
Chapter 25 that I felt kinship with. I thought I was proven=
even with him.
Though I quite
frankly didn't understand the frame movie scenes near the =
beginning of
the book, the
frame story was very effective and very sophisticated, sign=
ified by K's own
linguistic loop
disclaimer: "Dr. Sax was no sophisticated writer." Now K =
is flexing his
literary muscle.
He had that round. By pg. 77 he was building on juvenile=
absurdity into
the honest
youthful expression of reality and calling it by name. I can f=
eel my youth of
the 50's ending
in his Shakespearean: "How rotten the walls of life do ge=
t how collapsed
the tendon
beam..."
=0D
I'll digress here
to say that his sense of regionalism is very predominan=
t. His
description
of New England
weather/mood change was brilliant. I
identified with this=
=2E In my book,
there is
regionalism where the weather plays a part "anthropomorphically =
expanding a
place into the
dimensions of a mythical super-person".
=0D
He began to set a
pace, and after "feeling out his approach" he was in th=
e full swing of
writing by the
time he went past Jeff's father's business, Alexander's (p=
g. 85). After
that
there were too
many details. the writing became almost pedestrian. I out=
guessed, even
if it was
speculative. Charles Dawe in the San Francisco Fault wrote "But=
Plymell writes
a more
speculative--or 'memoir' if you like---than On The Road. " =
=0D
The dialogue
picks up a little by pg. 193 and then K
starts throwing eve=
rything he's got
into great bold
abstract expressionist strokes. He was a hipster, not a h=
ippie. I've never
seen the slang
term "hincty" in print, though it was used in the subcultu=
re of the 50's.
He
reaches into his
literary background and came up with name/context of all=
of classic
literature. His
Baroque Benzedrine monsters were bopping in the linguisti=
c sub lingo of
the 50's
psycho-imagistic creations like the simile "...head down, like a=
hip tap dancer
pulling his bops
away,..."
=0D
I began to
realize what I was up against. From then on he pulled out all =
stops:
Surrealism,
Symbolism, Mysticism, Goethe, Faust, Kafka, you name it; Best=
iary,
Allegory,
Naturalism; Kerouac swung away. In conclusion, the quote from H=
ugh Fox,
writing in MOTA
started this whole thing. "Moccasins becomes a case-book/=
textbook,
model of
contemporary style that Americanizes Joyce, Genet, Sarraute, Rob=
be-Grillet and
even
stylistically 'explicates' the whole dizzying language-stance of Nak=
ed Lunch
Burroughs. The only 'beat' novels that even approach the
stylistic statu=
re of The Last of
the Moccasins
are, in fact, Naked Lunch and (to a much lesser degree) Ker=
ouac's Doctor
Sax. You find a little bit of this in Kerouac,
Miller, Burroughs, but ne=
ver anywhere any
better--the use
of bringing the whole English word-hoard to bear in one m=
ultiple-associated
semantic barrage, anthropomorphically expanding a plac=
e into the
dimensions
of mystical
super-person." =
=0D
I think that is
an excellent description of Dr. Sax too, but I thank you =
Hugh for putting
me in the Ring
and hope that I can live up to your laudations. This was a=
very enjoyable
read for me.
Traditionally, the east has enjoyed more literary activity .=
My book is west
of the Mississippi.
It is written in new journalism; it is autobiographic=
al. I'm surprised
by all the good
reviews of it. Just as someone recently remarked that it'=
s a kind of honor
to not have books
available. It seems my books are reviewed as much as re=
ad. I'm glad
to have the
opportunity to read and "review" Dr. Sax, and my comments are=
extemporaneous as
a the keyboard. This is for the practice of writing; it=
hasn't nested;
It is not formal,
rather conversational.
=0D
I am totally
comfortable and delighted at what Colin Cooper said in the l=
atest Beat
Scene about the
new edition: "At last this Beat gem is back in print. Ori=
ginally released
by City Lights
Press in San Francisco, this underground American classic =
has languished
in unwarranted
obscurity....Here are the individuals of the so called Bea=
t Generation and
many more (Jack
Black. Thomas Kromer) decode it all."
=0D
I am pleased with
all the reviews. My only claim was to be a "Hobohemian"=
writer, a
word that I
invented. Dr. Sax is a great book by a great writer.
Charles Plymell=
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.1229.emout05.mail.aol.com.862790182--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 19:21:26 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
My only claim was
to be a "Hobohemian" writer, a
> word that I
invented. Dr. Sax is a great book by a great writer.
> Charles
Plymell
this was truly an
enjoyable read...looking forward to the rest of the
Bout and to
future ones like:
In the blue
corner .... Dr. Sax AND
in the green
corner .... Dr. Benway ......
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:59:01 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
Charles,
Very nice first
round. Your jab is working, you're using the ring
well. Take plenty
of fluids and keep it up. And remember
about not
hooking with a
hooker, or whatever. Makes me want to
run straight to
the bookstore
(better than going stoned to the bookstore cuz I never get
out) and grab
both books. That's the best part.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:39:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Alex Howard
<kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: apologies
In-Reply-To: <m0wOA1N-000rMiC@gpnet.it>
On Mon, 5 May
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
What brand of
wine are you drinkin'? Would like to try
it myself...
------------------
Alex Howard (704)266-7067 Appalachian State
University
kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:02:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: Please STOP Rinaldo
Comments: cc:
rinaldo@gpnet.it
If you had a lot to say, no
problem. But these useless one liners
are
really getting
tiresom. Some people on the list have to
pay for their
service providers
by the minute. Reading 50 posts that
make no sense is
just plain
unfair.
I vote for a gag-order...
-Bill
[ deadbeat@buffnet.net -
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
"A fanatic
is one who can't change his mind and won't change the
subject."
--
Winston Churchill
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:45:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: What kind of wine....
Alex - If rinaldo
replies privately will you please let me and the others
know...this could
be a chance for a good little export business on the side
for rinaldo.
Antoine
***************************
>On Mon, 5 May
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>What brand of
wine are you drinkin'? Would like to try
it myself...
>
>------------------
>Alex
Howard (704)266-7067 Appalachian State
University
>kh14586@acs.appstate.edu P.O. Box 12149
>http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~kh14586 Boone, NC 28608
>
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:54:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Your current flood
rinaldo..........sei
pazzo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(y, io ti scrivo
di Zanzotto y Fellini, my dad JUST started translating for
me, and i will
get back to you, mi dispiace, io sono molto tardo)
arrivederla, ginevra (ginny)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:13:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cornix?
Cornix. That
sounds interesting. I'll try it. I'll have to get a larger
screen.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 06:57:42 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: After the Flood - reflections on Venetian
brother
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------4778642C707F
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
received this
when i woke this morning. Venice and
Salina are not in
the same time
zones but definitely in the same Astral plane.
hope all
the Beat-Lers are
caught up and that there was no significant damage
from the flood
from the Venetian computer. I was quite
concerned at
first but as the
backchannel continued (i checked nearly 2 hours of
exchange) i found
that everything was alright and fine and probably a
minute
misunderstanding compared to some that have been zooming across
the list in
recent days.
david rhaesa
p.s. rasa and
rhaesa are the same if the alphabet excludes "h's" and
"e's"
so i've determined "scientifically" that rinaldo and i are distant
cousins..... :)
--------------4778642C707F
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<336DA60F.31FA@midusa.net>
Date: Mon, 05 May
1997 04:19:12 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
Reply-To:
race@midusa.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Rinaldo Rasa
<rinaldo@gpnet.it>
Subject: Re:
Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
References:
<m0wOGTu-000rEqC@gpnet.it>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> david,
> in advance i
thanx sincerely u & al the beats,
> u 'cuz of
the spotaneous writing lastnight a la jack kerouac
> we
celebrated a piece of lit, i presume...
> &thanx
to the beats for the BIG patient carried
> for the
email floooooooooood
>
> i send via
snail mail a postcard for u
>
> good morn'
& good week, & i hop're happy!
> ciao da
Rinaldo.
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rinaldo
RASA, v.MORLAITER 2, 30173 VENICE-Mestre, ITALY
>
> voice: +39 (041) 5317058
> email: rasa@gpnet.it
> email: rinaldo@gpnet.it
>
http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm
>
-------------------------------------------------------
I enjoyed the
typing races across the Atlantic ocean.
I was concerned
about you
primarily at first. Then i just enjoyed
it more and more as
you began to tell
me more and more things about the Centre of the
Universe and all
that.
It certainly was
spontaneous writing. I hope that the
flood is easily
forgiven by
everyone. I'm certain many were
concerned.
I still find it
mysterious that our names are similar Rasa-Rhaesa.
Your note on my
computer when I woke up is certainly going to help me
with having a
happy day. I'll look forward to the
picture postcard.
Take Care
Venetian friend,
david rhaesa
--------------4778642C707F--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:07:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
In-Reply-To:
<199705042119.OAA26747@denmark.it.earthlink.net> from "Gerald
Nicosia" at May 4, 97
02:19:34 pm
Gerry wrote:
> OK, I'm sure I explained to you, that
my problem from the start as
> Jan's literary
executor has been that her heir, exhusband John Lash, has
> been seeking
desperately for some grounds to dismiss me (so he can complete
> his deal
with John Sampas). I told you to take
the never-published PARROT
> FEVER from
your web site because, potentially, John Lash could go before the
> Albuquerque
court and say: "Look, Nicosia is GIVING AWAY OUR [his and Jan's
>
half-brother's] PROPERTY. He has now
diminished the earning power of PARROT
> FEVER by
letting this guy Asher print it for nothing."
Okay, I
understand and accept this (although you didn't explain this
before). I never questioned your right, as Jan's
literary executor,
to call the shots
as you see them, and I am more sympathetic as well,
now that you've
explained why you'd asked me to stop running this piece.
I really only
brought this up because I think John Sampas, as Jack Kerouac's
literary
executor, also has the right to call the shots as he sees
them, and I think
he must have his own private reasons, just as you
have yours in
this "Parrot Fever" situation, for taking the actions that
you have objected
to.
> So let's make a trade-off here. Until the Appellate Court in Santa
> Fe makes a
final ruling on the extent of my powers, I'm not going to give
> Mr. Lash any
ammunition concerning how careless I am with his property.
> What I can
do is give you permission to print an equal amount of Jan's work
> (equal no.
of words) as was in the PARROT FEVER excerpt, from either of her
> out-of-print
books BABY DRIVER or TRAINSONG. You tell
me what excerpt you
> want, what
page to what page, and I'll fax you a letter of permission.
Thanks for this
offer -- but there really is something special I liked
about publishing
"previously unpublished works."
So how about this,
instead -- if you
ever reach a point in your dispute with Lash where
you can safely
give me permission to run the Parrot Fever excerpt
again, let me
know, and till then I'll just keep it on file.
Now ... let's end
this here before we get another 90 messages
from Italy ...
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:56:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Gerry ????????
Gerry, you really
didn't respond to this post.
>>Gerry, I
just looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on
>one of the
first pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of
>them can't
remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the
>Berg
collection of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What
>do you have
to say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?
>
>By the way
Gerry the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard
>to promote
Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and
>try to put us
down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas
>conspiracy
theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work
>hard to put
this festival on every year don't know or care about your
>squabbles
with the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the
>festival last
year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the
>festival. You
know what, his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not
>sure but the
probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is
>because it's
not "Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates
>Kerouac"
and I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to
>be your only
one lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and
>I haven't
heard of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you would like
>it better if
no one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in
>Lowell. It
seems like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John
>private and
don't try to drag down people that truly want to do some good
>and promote
Kerouac. Phil Chaput
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:24:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
In a message
dated 97-05-04 11:47:56 EDT, you write:
<< Wow.
Been a long time. I first joined this list right after my father, Don
Carpenter, died in July 1995. >>
Bonnie:
I remember your father sitting with
Braughtigan and me on Haight St.
Watching it
build. He used to come down to the Tenderloin and talk to me. We
were in front of
a movie theatre where I had my photo taken. The one on
Apocayspe Rose. I
always wondered if he helped Braughtigan find a publisher.
I had published
some of B's poems. Sorry for your loss.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:06:21 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: jk's heritage
In-Reply-To:
<199705050407.VAA14124@netcom.netcom.com>
On Sun, 4 May
1997, Levi Asher wrote:
>
> Now ...
let's end this here before we get another 90 messages
> from Italy
...
>
yup,thats right
rinaldo what does that mean, anyway?
people are
discussing serious toppings ;) and you send us some
kinderkacke!
no, lets get
serious. all i know about this kerouac estate fight is what i
learned from the
recent postings and i am sad to hear that it has come
that far.
gerald, your
arguments sound reasonable and honest and i know why "the
other side"
dont comment, their selfish, profit-oriented and anti-social
behaviour is
revealed and everything they said now, would only be silly or
pointless. i just
cant understand why the rest of you stay silent...
as i understand
it this is about the future of the teaching of the
wonderful
literary history of the US. with all its light and shadow.
proof me wrong or
standup against the material profit of the selfish
individual who
betray the community.
mit freundlichen
gruessen
moritz
rossbach,saarbruecken, germany
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 08:28:42 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Looking for Jack...
> Coming soon
from Upstart Crow Publishing:
>
> Looking For
Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
> by Paul A.
Maher Jr.
>
> This will be
published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.
> This will be
available by reservation only.
> More info is
forthcoming.....
>
Who posted
this? How can I get on the list to
purchase one a copy? Whoever
posted this said
to e-mail privately, but then didn't leave an e-mail address
(please keep in
mind that not everybody gets the original "from" line).
Please post your
e-mail, or e-mail ME privately so I can get more info!
---Wes Lundburg
wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:31:03 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: More than enough
Rinaldo
Can't stop
cuz
he likes
to
Bop.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:38:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Looking for Jack...
At 08:28 AM
5/5/97 CDT, you wrote:
>> Coming
soon from Upstart Crow Publishing:
>>
>> Looking
For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac
>> by Paul
A. Maher Jr.
>>
>> This
will be published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.
>> This
will be available by reservation only.
>> More
info is forthcoming.....
>>
>
>Who posted
this? How can I get on the list to
purchase one a copy? Whoever
>posted this
said to e-mail privately, but then didn't leave an e-mail address
>(please keep
in mind that not everybody gets the original "from" line).
>
>Please post
your e-mail, or e-mail ME privately so I can get more info!
>
>---Wes
Lundburg
>wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us
>You may want
to contact Water Row Press at waterrow@aol.com. Keep in mind
that this is a
work in progress and won't be ready for a few more months.
Thanks, Paul...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 08:46:01 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens"
<shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: grocery and other
haunts
Comments: To:
RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
In-Reply-To: <336B37A9.1A36@midusa.net>
SEND THE GROCERY
POEM AS IS!
My thoughts have
grown much more pensive in the frozen food isles (a land
far away) after
having read it.
-Shan (list lurker)
On Sat, 3 May
1997, RACE --- wrote:
> PAM wrote:
> >
> > >Hi
Dave! You can recieve a copy for $5.00. Try submitting your poem for
> >
publication if you want. You may send both (or one or the other) to:
> > The
Kerouac Quarterly
> > 34 North
Rd. #7
> >
Chelmsford, MA. 01824 Thanks, Paul...
>
> so i'm
thinkin' about submitting the grocery poem to KQ. could people
> more versed
in verse be so kind as to send me some suggestions for
> editing and
revisions. please be brutal.
>
> then i'll
work it a bit massage it here and there and there and here
> and then
figure out a way to get my printer running so that i can print
> it and send
it earthmail.
>
> i appreciate
ideas from anyone out there. we're all
born critics - just
> some are
born nice and polite too :)
>
> david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:02:09 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Estate of the State, for Rinaldo
Rinaldo, as a
student of American literature I'm sure you know that in
America you ain't
nobody until you have filed a claim to help fulfill your
personal dream
and/or been subpoenaed to participate in one:
I sue/I am
sued, ergo I
existimento. Litigation is what we have
instead of love. Or
honor. Or life.
As for Jack's estate and related palavers, remember that
famous line from
American Lit., from <Death of a Salesman>, where Willy
Loman realizes
that he is "worth more dead than alive." (Life
insurance--heh
heh--so he hits the road, and runs into a real wall; of
course, what his sons
really wanted was--surprise--love! Biff
is Beat.) O
Jack, he knew
this, Buddhawise. It depressed him to
realize that people
were promoting
him into a stardom (it got to Neal earlier) from which there
is seldom an
escape, even or especially on the road.
Booze, drugs, that's
the pill! Meanwhile there is no American Dream without
a commensurate
number of
woodticks and tape worms.// John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:32:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
>Now ... let's
end this here before we get another 90 messages
>from Italy
...
well we could all
just each reply to each of Rianldo's posts...to rinaldo
direct, not the
beat-l
How many folks on
the list? say 20. 20 * 90, 1800
50? 4500 letters in one
day to one
mailbox?
of course iam am
only pointing out a danger rinaldo has set himself up for.
don't really do it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:33:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry ????????
At 11:56 PM
5/4/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Gerry, you
really didn't respond to this post.
>
>
>>>Gerry,
I just looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on
>>one of
the first pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of
>>them
can't remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the
>>Berg
collection of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What
>>do you
have to say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?
>>
>>By the
way Gerry the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard
>>to
promote Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and
>>try to
put us down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas
>>conspiracy
theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work
>>hard to
put this festival on every year don't know or care about your
>>squabbles
with the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the
>>festival
last year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the
>>festival.
You know what, his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not
>>sure but
the probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is
>>because
it's not "Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates
>>Kerouac"
and I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to
>>be your
only one lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and
>>I haven't
heard of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you would like
>>it better
if no one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in
>>Lowell.
It seems like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John
>>private
and don't try to drag down people that truly want to do some good
>>and
promote Kerouac. Phil Chaput
>>
Dear Phil, 5/5/97
This is getting ridiculous. You're wasting my time, I'm not going
to answer the
same questions twice. Did you not get
the post I sent in
reply, beginning:
"Jeffrey Weinberg told me he sold BOOK OF DREAMS to a
private
collector"? I got the report from
Beat-List saying it was sent.
The only thing I left out is that
federal funding was cut from the
Lowell Kerouac
Committee after complaints were made to the National Park
Service about the
partisan use of funding for past Kerouac events. Even the
National Park
Service doesn't think your committee deserves funding any
more--so why
should I fund it?
Tell Sampas to get on here himself, so
we can stop running around in
circles and get
to the heart of the matter.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:19:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Emilio Vedova e i beats?.
cari amici beats,
'bout Emilio
Vedova, is the greatest painter living at
present in italy
& he is venetian, he lives in an house
near Punta della
Dogana (San Marco Place)where is the
Museo delle Bell
Arti di Venezia, paintings of most venetian
artists are in
this building.
i past time known
a disceple of Emilio Vedova, & in my
room (computer
room) at home there a CRAB painted by
former friend
Tenenti Giancarlo (the Vedova disceple),
how is the Vedova
paint? it's not realist & not abstractionism,
big & tiny
brushstroke on the canvas, the color he prefer
is black &
white, Emilio Vedova is an old man & a teacher
at the Accademia
delle Belle Arti of Venice,
if u like send me
a feedback & give u more 'bout Emilio Vedova,
in this moment i
remind that also Lawrence Ferlinghetti
is involved in
painting & some remind me Emilio Vedova
e.g. L.F.
"Untled" where a bridge is sketched a' la E. Vedova,
in my opinion, u
know sure that ferlinghetti is an aficionado
'bout italian
scene (sad on the florentine side, not venetian...)
& if u see
the book cover of "Scene italiane" there's a
ferlighetti's
paint "Morning Vision" that again vedovaesque feeling.
well, for HST i
refer to "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" in my
italian
translation (sandro veronesi did it, nice!) & there's
painting by Ralph
Steadman that has on a side a Grosz feeling
but on the other
side ink blot on the page e.g. chapter
6.
is Vedova style,
----
a brief bio
VEDOVA Emilio,
(Venezia 8
september 19919 - living)
Pittore. Tra i
maggiori esponenti dell'arte informale
italiana, in
contatto a Milano (1942-43) con Corrente
fu nel dopoguerra
tra i promotori del Fronte nuovo
delle arti e nel
1952 fece parte del gruppo degli
Otto, volgendosi
a un espressionismo astratto forte
e gestuale.
OP:Sbarramento (1951), Venezia,
Fondazione P.
Guggenheim.
----
vale!
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
* a not competent beet *
* TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:18:59 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: the "chinese room"
amici beats,
we're put our own hands on a new media, joking sometime
in the
"chinese room" & this means mes'are cyberhermetic,
do u remember "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's
Nest"
by Ken Kesey? a
great moment at the start...
* the beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:31:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
>I really only
brought this up because I think John Sampas, as Jack Kerouac's
>literary
executor, also has the right to call the shots as he sees
>them, and I
think he must have his own private reasons, just as you
>have yours in
this "Parrot Fever" situation, for taking the actions that
>you have
objected to.
>
Dear Levi, May 5, 1997
I did not have PRIVATE reasons for
withholding the PARROT FEVER
excerpt; I had
good LEGAL reasons.
I don't question that John Sampas
currently has the LEGAL RIGHT to
sell off
Kerouac's property, publish or withhold Kerouac's books, etc. I do
question whether
or not he has the MORAL RIGHT to break up Kerouac's archive
into hundreds of
pieces, destroying its scholarly value (as attested to by
such experts as
Matthew Bruccoli of the University of South Carolina, Tom
Staley of U. of
T., Austin, and Tony Bliss of Bancroft, Berkeley, among others).
Doesn't Mr. Sampas owe something to the
man who made him and his
family
wealthy? Doesn't he owe something to
Kerouac as a writer who
enriched the
entire world by what he wrote? I don't
mean OWE in a legal
sense here. I mean the kind of debt we owe the dead, when
they have helped
us in their
lifetime.
For the nth time I say, if Mr. Sampas
truly intends to keep Jack
Kerouac's papers
together in a library, then why doesn't he tell us when he
will do this, and
what is keeping him from doing it NOW???
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:46:55 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
apologies@cruzio.com
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> as gif image
now i'm considering to limit my writing...
> .-
Beat Community
Genius Rinaldo. Spanking new channels email surprising
communication.
Possibilities to contemplate, play with, digest. Shit.
Have a beutiful
Monday.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:05:54 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell"@cruzio.com
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> Dear
Levi, May 5, 1997
>
> I did not have PRIVATE reasons for
withholding the PARROT FEVER
> excerpt; I
had good LEGAL reasons.
> I don't question that John Sampas currently
has the LEGAL RIGHT to
> sell off
Kerouac's property, publish or withhold Kerouac's books, etc.
Dear Gerald,
I continue to pay
reluctant close attention to this very tasteless, rude
incessant
intrusion that we have been bombarded with lately. At the same
time I am also
grateful for the information that broadens my
understanding of
matters beat, writing, publishing, authoring, and life
at the end of the
twentieth century. Not just in the USA. I am
fascinated by the
energy, intelligence and devotion, seemingly to the
cause. What
cause, a cause that I haven't completely bought yet. Even
forgetting the
objections raised by Rod and others. Comes now Levi's
entry, and what's
this? Do I see a stumble? Do you consider this an
adequate response?
A legal right is sufficient reason for you and is
there a total
absence of need for moral reason(s) when it comes to your
actions? Am I
overlooking something here?
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:28:13 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 5 May 1997 09:32:09 -0700
from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Timothy, what a
wonderful idea! 100 messages x 250 or so
a day. Just remember
to reply directly
to Rinaldo not to the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:29:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens"
<shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: mean words
In-Reply-To: <m0wORPh-000rVmC@gpnet.it>
I had a
nasty/spicy horrible fight yesterday.
Feel small like
Alice...without the sensation of falling down the hole.
So you know what?
I want a point in
the literary direction of one of our beats deflecting
the invasive
harsh words that come along with dissolution.
-Shan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:43:08 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Nice Words
Shannon L.
Stephens wrote:
>
> I had a nasty/spicy
horrible fight yesterday.
> Feel small
like Alice...without the sensation of falling down the hole.
> So you know
what?
> I want a
point in the literary direction of one of our beats deflecting
> the invasive
harsh words that come along with dissolution.
>
> -Shan
Many a day I have
that Alice feeling myself.
Here are some
nice words. I haven't figured out what
they mean yet.
I've been
thinking about them quite a bit - perhaps too much.
I have no reason
to quibble with the absence of judgement placed in
Things by the
Absent Judge who builded the world without building it.
Without building
it.
-- Desolation Angels
Perhaps someone
or many someones can explain or interpret these words to
let me sense
better why they hit me so directly in my mind's eye.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:11:30 -500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the
Web)
Thought those of
you who can't make it to Borders (I'm hoping
to be there) would
like to at least be there virtually. WXRT is
Chicago's best
music station BTW...
Nick W-W
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Online Be-in
With WXRT And Ken Kesey
>
> From:
wxrt@MCS.COM (WXRT)
> Date: 3 May
1997 00:09:26 -0500
>
Organization: MCSNet Services
> Newsgroups:
chi.media
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Ken Kesey
and more than a dozen Merry Pranksters are
> crossing
America in Kesey's 1947 International Harvester school bus en
> route to the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland to celebrate the
> museums new
exhibit, I Want To Take You Higher: The Psychedelic Era
> 1965-1969,
opening on May 10, 1997. And yes, they are
making a stop in
> Chicago.
>
> The Chicago
stop takes place on May 7 from noon-3pm at Borders Books at
> Diversey and
Clark in Chicago and you are invited to attend.
If you can't
> make it in
person, drop by the XRT web site at http://www.wxrt.com and
> check out
the digital be-in. We'll be featuring
QTVR's of Kesey's bus
>
"Furthur," downloadable movie clips, streaming audio segments,
photos,
> and text
comments collected during the event.
>
> WXRT made
its first foray into netcasting during the Democratic National
> Convention
as part of the Chicago96 web site, www.chicago96.org . That
> web site
received over a million hits during the course of the convention
> week and was
called the "...most fun convention site" by The New York
> Times.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:02:00 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%97050514300998@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
I fail to see the
wonder. Rinaldo was constantly risking
an absurdity, I
admit. I too didn't want his protestant spree to go
on much longer, but at
least his one or
two liners were quick to read and delete.
And, for me at
least, his deluge
was a funny wake-up call from the torrents of spring
being spewed by
others more Beat-List correct in their bop prosody, whose
word-counts for a
single day at times have far out-numbered Rinaldo's.
Still, I respect
this All-American, no doubt Beat-nik thing, of ganging up
on an individual
for breaking the rules of TeeVee decorum, not to mention
the black beret
and bongo individuality of all wearing the same Beat-List
T-shirt while
jamming Rinaldo. At moment's like this I'm glad Jack's dead.
// John M.
>Timothy, what
a wonderful idea! 100 messages x 250 or
so a day. Just
>remember
>to reply
directly to Rinaldo not to the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 12:06:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
I want to point
out that I didn't say we should do this to Rinaldo.
I said that
Rinaldo should be aware of what possibilities he opens his
e-mail account up
to when he does this.
At 02:02 PM
5/5/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I fail to see
the wonder. Rinaldo was constantly
risking an absurdity, I
>admit. I too didn't want his protestant spree to go
on much longer, but at
>least his one
or two liners were quick to read and delete.
And, for me at
>least, his
deluge was a funny wake-up call from the torrents of spring
>being spewed
by others more Beat-List correct in their bop prosody, whose
>word-counts
for a single day at times have far out-numbered Rinaldo's.
>Still, I
respect this All-American, no doubt Beat-nik thing, of ganging up
>on an
individual for breaking the rules of TeeVee decorum, not to mention
>the black
beret and bongo individuality of all wearing the same Beat-List
>T-shirt while
jamming Rinaldo. At moment's like this I'm glad Jack's dead.
>// John M.
>
>
>>Timothy,
what a wonderful idea! 100 messages x
250 or so a day. Just
>>remember
>>to reply
directly to Rinaldo not to the list.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:07:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
Beat Friends. . .
Man oh man, we got a doozy on our hands
with this estate battle, huh? I
don't know what
to say, obviously we have to very rigid and divided camps,
and, as best I
can tell, only one is represented on the list.
At first I tended to side with Nicosia,
simply because he was the only one
talking, but with
the addition of Levi's nugget of info, I think I'm
beginning to
distance myself from both sides because it all sounds too
goddamned
complicated, and vendetta-based.
Whether or not this observation is
accurate, I'm going to make it: It
appears that
Nicosia wants to be granted the free reign to say anything he
damn well pleases
with the added benefit of being able to rescind and
adjust his
statements when he sees it necessary.
Case in point, Levi and
the book
excerpt. Why, Nicosia, didn't you make
it clear to Levi in the
beginning why you
asked him to remove the excerpt? It
seems obvious to me
why Levi was
befuddled by you. I can almost bet that
had you conducted
yourself with a
bit more tact, Levi would be one of your champions. And
because of Levi's
love of and dedication to all things Beat, never mind his
good nature in
all discussions I've seen him chime in on, I tend to align
myself with him,
trusting that his impressions of situations are accurate,
well-balanced,
and well-thought. (No pressure, Levi, really).
I think it comes down to this: Be
consistent, dammit!
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:58:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gatt implications to intellectual
property....
I've uncovered
all my copyright files in an attempt to check this out - it
looks to me like
it only applies to work initially published overseas, not
in the US, so it
wouldn't therfore apply. All very strange. Sorry for the
diversion, should
have checked before posting.The whole thing was kept very
quiet though.
There are a
number of huge web sites devoted to the works of authors in the
public domain -
Project Gutenberg is one of the main ones. They're mostly
university funded
or sponsored, and the contents are usually free to all who
wish to browse
and have web access. Works can be quite expensive to mount if
you want them
well designed and with hypertext links. The ALTX site is
another place
starting to put up pout of print works (they have one of
Ronald Sukenick's
books up already).
Nick
>Nick,
>
> First of all, thanks for your sig file
with its the regular reminder
>of the proper
approach to getting - "don't let
the bastards grind you down"
>...lots
better than my two Roman legionaire standbyes, "Nolo urinare contra
>ventum."
and "Semper ubi sub ubi."
>
> Reading about the confused situation
regarding the Kerouac estate,
>and now
seeing the intricacies of copyright renewal and the potential for
>misses, has
been an odd mix of feeling disheartened together with a sense of
>tension and
suspense as each new twist is unveiled.
>
> The digitization idea of Michael Stutz
is an excellent one and made
>me wonder if
there is much web access to digitized works of the size of the
>Kerouac
novels. The Gatt twist seems an incredibly important development in
>the
intellectual property area. What are the specific limitations to
>applying
this. Is it obscure enough that Gerald Nicosia or the Sampas family
>would have
missed the chance that it provided?
Gerald / Gerry?
>
> This seems to make it important to
have/build an index of what the
>copyright renewal
options are on the whole body of Beat lierature even
>though we're
ten to twenty years past the critical time period for renewal.
>Does the
publishing industry maintain such a resource? Anyway,I hope that
>you and the
otehrs involved in publishing in all its froma will continue to
>educate us.
>
> Thanks Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:09:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the
Web)
In a message
dated 97-05-05 15:45:57 EDT, you write:
<<
Thought those of you who can't make it to
Borders (I'm hoping
to be there) would like to at least be there
virtually. WXRT is
Chicago's best music station BTW...
Nick W-W
>>
This post smacks
of an ad. BTW...XRT sux...try NUR or ZRD...And we have
problems w/
Border's mgt. in this town.
beano
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:31:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the
Web)
Any idea which
Pranksters are on the bus beside Kesey?
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:51:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the
Web)
Oh well excuse me
for troubling you. Plus, the Borders in question is the
one that actually
has a union after the big fight for it, so it seems rather
pointless
boycotting that one. As for XRT, a matter of opinion I think.
Nick
>This post
smacks of an ad. BTW...XRT sux...try NUR or ZRD...And we have
>problems w/
Border's mgt. in this town.
>
> beano
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director, Northwestern
University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:52:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the
Web)
In a message
dated 97-05-05 16:44:26 EDT, you write:
<<
Oh well excuse me for troubling you. >>
I don't believe I
ever suggested a boycot, simply made a comment about
Border's
management in general.
As for XRT, I
believe, in taste, rather than opinion.
Semantics?
beano
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:01:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: merry pranksters hit windy city and radio
netville
seriously now
folks, fuck the $$$$ signs and billboards that bump the soggin
noggin, it's the
only way that I can get on the damned bus and I'ma gonna
git thair one way
or ta other, I'm just glad that the radio station
obviously steeped
in true hype is bringing the intrepid trip to us all here
on the beat list
as I am digging the Further web site connected to the shin
bone of the radio
site as you dudes and dudettes beep one another on the net
well guess what
children the bus is pulling away and as they say you are
either on the bus
or off the well beaten rug tug shug mug and don't paint
the tires ya know
you gotta go man never spank a yankster and shooby doo a
prankster and
download the road in the garter belt 30 weight wahoo uphill
race towards big
wheel dr. feelgood got the cure and you can keep the
deezeezeeeeeeee.
. . chicago blow me home blow me down blow me upriver and
sing me beat
daddy
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:17:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: nice words
acceptance
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:02:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bonnie Lee Howard
<howardb@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
In-Reply-To:
<970504232402_-1031159111@emout02.mail.aol.com>
On Sun, 4 May
1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
> In a message
dated 97-05-04 11:47:56 EDT, you write:
>
> <<
Wow. Been a long time. I first joined this list right after my father, Don
> Carpenter, died in July 1995. >>
> Bonnie:
> I remember your father sitting with
Braughtigan and me on Haight St.
> Watching it
build. He used to come down to the Tenderloin and talk to me. We
> were in
front of a movie theatre where I had my photo taken. The one on
> Apocayspe
Rose. I always wondered if he helped Braughtigan find a publisher.
> I had
published some of B's poems. Sorry for your loss.
> Charles
Plymell
Thanks. And
thanks for the memories, too. I don't know whether dad helped
R.B. find a
publisher or not. It's possible. After I found out about dad's
suicide, the
first person I contacted was Brautigan's daughter. She gave
me some great
advice (especially "do NOTHING for a year"). My father and
Brautigan were
very close for a long time, and both killed themselves
almost exactly
ten years apart. But under very different circumstances.
My father was
instrumental in helping Philip Whalen get some stuff
published. You
wanna hear a good story about Phil? It's kinda cute:
We lived in Noe
Valley in the early 60's, and Phil used to babysit for us
kids so that my
parents could go out. My sister and I were very little and
pretty bratty.
One night Phil was babysitting and had fallen asleep on the
couch. My sister
and I decided to play with something forbidden: fire. Uh
oh. We lit a
bunch of candles and were pouring the hot molten wax around,
just generally
making an awful mess. We got some wax on our hands, and
when we pulled it
off, it made sort of a model of our fingers. So we then
got the bright
idea of making a mold of Phil's face while he was snoring
peacefully on the
couch. Poor Whalen: I will never forget the look on his
face when he
awoke with two preschoolers standing over him, dribbling hot
wax onto his
face. Yikes! He could have gotten us into a whole lot of
trouble, but he
never did tell my parents what we did, and how stupid and
dangerous it was.
I will always love him for that :-)
Oh dear: I am
doing it again...getting all nahs-talgic. I'll stop now :-)
Bonnie
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:19:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
so that's why the
poor man became a monk!
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:00:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Moritz Rossbach
from Germany wrote:
>i just cant
understand why the rest of you stay silent... as i understand it
this is about the
future of the teaching of the wonderful literary history of
the US. with all its light and shadow.
I've been
thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to tell
you I've been
very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons. I can
empathize with
Rinaldo's flooding the list (feel his pain, as it were) while
at the same time
being irked that I had to wade through all this junk he was
sending my way
and everybody else's.
It was obvious to
me and probably many others that he'd had it, he just
didn't want to
deal with the idea of a lawsuit involving the works of JK. He
was shouting
"Make Nice! Play Fair!" in his crazy Venetian broken English
way.
As I settled into
a fitful sleep last night I got to thinking too that this
is a parallel
with Nicosia and Jan. They've been
shouting from the rooftops,
flooding the list
as it were, trying to get the attention of anybody who
would listen,
trying to make a case people didn't want to hear. And if Jan
hadn't been
Kerouac's blood and Nicosia the recognized foremost authority on
Kerouac's life
nobody would have listened. But some
have listened, with
attending press
coverage, and the courts have listened saying in effect
"maybe there
is something to look at here".
Now Rinaldo is a
valued member of this list and while a lot of people fired
back at him for
the flooding episode I heard no calls to silence him or ban
him from the
Beat-L. Indeed, as a community, we
reached out to him.
I think it's time
for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia. Is there
really any doubt
why he's here? Is there really any doubt
what he's playing
for? You may think he's misguided, but is there
really any doubt as to his
sincerity?
The people on the
Beat-L make up a core constituency of Kerouac fans from all
over the
world. We're the people who are
dedicated enough and passionate
enough to invest
our time to keep abreast of situations and interact with one
another on a
regular basis. And if we don't care
enough about this
situation, as
complicated as it may be, who will?
Now I don't know
John Sampas. I wouldn't know him if I
fell over him. But
what if Nicosia
is right?
Gerry Nicosia has
been battling with few allies long enough.
It can't be
easy fighting
alone and watching a good friend, the one you've been fighting
alongside of all
this while, die in the middle of it.
You know, court
cases are not an easy thing... believe me, I know, I've been
involved in more
than one. They weigh on you, they wake
you up in the middle
of the night,
they rob you of your time and of your life.
And sometimes you
feel like
chucking it all and giving up simply because you don't want to
fight any more.
What would happen
if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight? And
what would happen
if at some point
in the future someone intimate to the situation finally let
it be known that
the will was in fact forged and John Sampas knew it? How
would we all feel
then? What loss would we feel? What injustice?
Gerry Nicosia has
been on this list for over a week now telling what he knows
and making
literally dozens of claims and assertions and all we've heard from
anybody else is
"we shouldn't be making a public spectacle" of the situation.
Any counterclaims made to Nicosia have been
side issues and personal beefs.
No one has made one credible argument that
what he is stating is not true.
And yet I haven't heard a lot of support
either.
I really can't
understand this. I thought there were a
lot of people on this
list who have
minds of their own and who are well versed on the details of
all this. Why aren't we hearing from you?
Why are so many
people sitting on the fence regarding this keeping their
silence? What are you afraid of? What do you have invested that's going to
unravel if you
say what you know?
This just doesn't
make sense to me. As a group we debate
issues ad nauseam
about things we
can never affect. We get into major
arguments about whether
Burroughs really
meant to kill his wife, a thing none of us can ever prove.
We shout at each other about "Who is
Beat/Who is not Beat". We fight
over
the "Gen X
versus the Beats" every other month!
We muster the troops and
fire off e-mails
and faxes and phone calls because a college student might
get expelled for
reading HOWL in public or a DJ most of us never heard of
gets canned for
playing it over the airwaves.
This Estate
Battle is something we might be able to have an impact on! This
is something that
is real and alive and will make a difference to Kerouac
fans like all of
us for decades to come. There are people
out there, I'm
convinced,
reading this note right now who know something about this case
that might make a
difference. Why won't you come forward? Why won't you
talk about what
you know? Maybe you know someone who
knows something but you
don't want to
ask. What grips you so tightly that
keeps you silent?
What shocks me is
between all the Scholars and Intimates and Business
Associates and
Historians that I thought populated this list is the many who
seem so unwilling
to talk about what they know. Everybody
says, "I'm not
going to get into
it" or "Let's keep it private" or whatever.
I've heard a few
people say Jan and Gerry did make a difference with their
high profile
protests in the sense that John Sampas has stopped or at least
slowed down on
his selling off various artifacts. Everyone seems to agree
this is a good
thing, regardless of whether he has a legal right to do so or
regardless of
whether the will is legitimate.
To those of you
who were hurt in some fashion by Jan and Gerry making a noisy
stink at your
event I think you've got to look at the greater good here. It
sounds to me like
nobody was listening to them until they started screaming
bloody murder and
calling in the press and upsetting people.
And if that is
what it took for
the original manuscript of On The Road and other items to
remain out of the
hands of private collectors where they would never again
see the light of
day then I would think you would have to agree that is a
good thing.
And I'm not
necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this!
I'm after the truth!
If you've got something that shows Gerry
Nicosia is only in it for the money
or the glory,
launch it. If you can show he's lying
about his motives, prove
it! And if you've got something that shows he's
all wet, then show me.
He's sure opened himself up for it. And if that is true I for one would
want to know.
I think it all
boils down to this: Did Gerry Nicosia
and Jan Kerouac step on
a lot of people's
toes? Absolutely! They made a lot of noise and pissed a
lot of people
off, thereby making a lot of enemies as well.
They also
apparently
succeeded somewhat in one of their aims which was to shine a light
on the selling of
irreplacable items and possibly slowing things down or
delaying them.
One of the things
I've heard over and over here is "this case is
complicated". Yes it is complicated. Life is complicated, human affairs are
complicated -
Jack Kerouac himself showed us that over and over again in his
writing which is
one of the reasons we love him so. But
to say, "I don't
want to deal with
it because it's complicated" is selling yourself short and
just plain lazy. To simply dismiss the issue because you don't
want to be
bothered is not
going to make it go away.
And if not us,
here on the Beat-L, then who?
Folks, I'll tell
ya, if I knew something that would support either Nicosia or
Sampas, something
that could make difference in this case and I did not come
forward because I
was concerned about my business relationships or my
professional
standing or whatever, I could not rest easy with that knowledge.
And if I was
keeping my silence because I'd had a disagreement or beef with
Nicosia (or
Sampas) that had very little to do with the issue at hand I would
be ashamed of
myself for letting my fellows and future generations down.
This situation, though complicated, is too
important to posterity to allow
petty squabbles
to get in the way. I would have to come
forward with what I
know.
How will you
sleep tonight?
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
"Candor prevents
paranoia".
Allen Ginserg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:17:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
In-Reply-To:
<970505200028_1685986959@emout15.mail.aol.com>
>
> Why are so
many people sitting on the fence regarding this keeping their
>
silence? What are you afraid of? What do you have invested that's going to
> unravel if
you say what you know?
the very fact
that i dont know anything is what is going to unravel if i
pop my head in on
this debate. That and the fact that were
in the middle
of finals. Great letter though Jerry and indeed if i had
something
important to say
regarding the issue believe me i would say it.
But as
for now im just
soaking up all emails about it. I for
one really
appreciate the
time and effort that Gerry is giving to convince us of the
truth. (his truth?)
Im just waiting for this whole court case
thing to blow
down and im hoping that he remains on the list so we can ask
the Great Kerouac
biographer questions about the man himself and not his
estate.
and I'm waiting
for the American Boy to take off Beauty's clothes and get
on top of her.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:23:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter
In a message dated
97-05-04 17:02:29 EDT, you write:
<< attila
devasted venice italy in earlier times,
so i for my ancestor i beg his pardon..
>>
For my ancestor,
I beg your pardon.
By the way,
Attila The Hun was a beat.
enjoy, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:41:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Jerry,
You letter very
thoughtful and intense and to long to quote.
I speak not as a
Kerouac expert who would have some really factual
evidence on this
but as a fan of Kerouac's. Most of us on
the list
don't have
legally compelling facts on this. I
suspect that many of my
fellow
listmembers are silent primarily for that reason.
What it really
seems to come down to is if the will was forged. I doubt
if anyone on the
list has any information on that than we have already
heard. The other question would be whether artifacts
are being sold, is
that legal, and
is that proper. Some may have
information on items that
have been
sold. They may have views on whether
John Sampas has the
right to sell these
things.
As very much an
outsider on this issue it just seems like an awful mess
that I can't do
anything about. When Jan was still alive
and pressing
her claim I
waited to hear from some respected somewhat neutral voice
like Allen
Ginsberg. No word was forthcoming. It's hard not to feel
sorry for Jan,
but it seems pretty obvious that Jan's problem stemmed
more from Jack's
actions than from anything the Sampas family had done.
It would seem
that Jack had the right to mess up his estate, disinherit
his daughter, etc
and that this is what he did. I also
thought I was
hearing in this
debate a sort of prejedice against the Sampas family
because they were
not as hip as Jan's partisans. Maybe I'm
wrong, but
it seemed that
way.
I haven't heard
anyone on the list question Nicosia's great contribution
to Kerouac
legacy. I don't think many doubt his
sincerity. But I don't
know whether he
is right and there is a tone which comes from his
statements and Jo
Grant's that puts me off. They see a huge conspiracy
of evil folks out
there and they are the sole possesors of truth.
Maybe
Rod Anastee and
Phil Chaput are trying to hide a terrible wrong, but
Rod's tone of
"don't trust me, don't trust them, wait for the facts"
rings truer for
me. Levi's post also suggested that
Nicosia is tending
to make enemies
out of reasonable people who don't want to be in this
fight. I've seen
these estate fights before and they are damn ugly.
Everybody's at
least part wrong most of the time. These
are certainly
my own reasons
for the silence that you and Moritz find so suprising.
I just want to
read the books. I don't really care who
gets rich and
rather doubt
anyone will. What's legal may not be
fair. Life isn't
fair. I am
certain that more truth will emerge on this, and that even if
I am tired of the
argument, it is an important issue for the list to
deal with.
Respectfully
leaving the field to the experts.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:56:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus DR.
SAX!
First of all, I
was amazed & delighted today, but not totally
surprised, of
course, by Charley Plymell's great post on the
subject of his
LAST OF THE MOCCASINS vis-a-vis (not to say
"versus")
Kerouac's DOCTOR SAX. Obviously it demands a response
in the next short
while!
However, I wanted
to close the JK ESTATE chapter first. I am very
uncomfortable
with many of my posts last week on this subject,
including my most
recent one, late Saturday night. I stand behind
the opinions that
I have expressed recently, and the "facts" I
have attempted to
establish, but I feel that within the context
of the Beat-List
much of the discussion on this topic has become
entirely too
personal, and fully accept my part in this. On
Sunday, I decided
to take any further discussion of this issue
with Gerry
"Off-List." I'm not sure what I expected by way of a
response (other
than, of course, COMPLETE AND UTTER REFUTATION of
my entire
argument, complete with references to Nazi history, and
Gerry's domestic
situation), but what I rec'd was a letter,
quoting part of
my original, private correspondence to him, which
was being
simultaneously e-mailed BOTH to me AND to "jogrant" at the
BOOKZEN website.
I do not know Mr. Grant personally, but his postings,way
back at the
beginning of this thread, struck me right from the
start as
essentially being the Gerry Nicosia "take' on the
situation without
much in the way of balance or critical
analysis. Anyway,
I cannot say I was particularly surprised by this
latest incidence
of Gerry's inability to set any limits for
himself -- it is
simply that it amounts to the last straw, as far
as I'M personally
concerned.
I have no way of
knowing -- but I hope!? -- that the discussions
of the past week
may have convinced at least a few people out
there in
Beat-List Land that this whole issue is VERY complicated
and, at its very
root, it is a struggle over Money & Power --
nothing new in
that, of course! -- but over ENOUGH money & power
that it's become
a WAR. One of the first lawyers who ever called
me for comments
on this struggle very frankly likened it to the
absolute worst,
nastiest divorce case that he had ever
encountered --
AND I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER WHICH SIDE HE WAS
WORKING FOR! But
the point is, we all know about the first
casualty of any
war.
As I said before,
I have no way of knowing whether or not
Gabrielle
Kerouac's will was a forged document. I also do not
consider myself,
at least, a partisan for either side of this
affair -- indeed,
I feel utterly safe in asserting that I am on
the "Enemies
List" tacked up in both of their clubhouses. I just
feel that
whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been there at one
point, in some
quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,
and probably no
longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly
the characters
fighting things out right now are, to my mind,
entirely degraded
and transparent as to their motivations and
goals. No heros.
No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only
worse. No matter what anybody tells you about the
situation,
they will have
reasons for saying what they tell you, and reasons
for leaving out
the things they leave out. My mantra.
I know that as
soon as this is posted, Gerry will write and post
a response,
COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY REFUTING everything I've said.
I've only just
really come to realize and accept that I can't
help that. No
end, no way out.
Finally, someone
asked earlier how to go about doing the kind of
private research
you might want to do in order to form a properly
informed opinion
on this issue. I make no grandiose claims, but
for anyone
interested, I have about 3 or 4 binders full of
original Gerry
Nicosia letters that might help anyone who's still
interested to
form an informed opinion of at least his side of
the equation. My
archive's still open to the public, too! No permissions
required!
JUST KIDDING,
Gerry! Why don't we just leave that for our kids' lawyers to
fight over, OK? I
expect there'll still be lawyers then.
CHEERS. Rod
Anstee
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 18:53:45 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Re. Movie Star!??
inaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> leon,
> are u a star
of a movie?
>
> .-
Hi Rinaldo,
I waited for
awhile before answering because I am not sure how you mean
the question. I
know you can't be serious.
If life is a
movie, then I would say that my role is to be an extra on
the stage with a
view. No stardom. Close to some pretty heavy action and
to a few of the
star movers and shakers. I learned to appreciate a lot
the roles assigned
to me, my destiny, and am quite grateful that I was
not burdened with
star roles. I can be and I can do as I choose without
worry that
strangers will be uplifted by incorrect interpretations of
me, or be let
down by my real actions. Anonymity allows me to keep
experiencing life
with freshness. I have seen deadly effects of fame. It
is not easy to
deal with. The blessings are overwhelming. Not far from
the surface all
kinds of jealousies teem and thrive and bring damage to
the real lives of
real people. Even the friends and descendants get
curses mixed in
with the blessings they inherited from the famous.
Usually the stars
earned the blessings, do not deserve the curses. I am
glad the stars
make the world brighter for me also. I am not so sure how
well I could cope
with stardom. To have a lot of influence is a
superhuman
responsibility. The warmth of interaction, even not face to
face, as is ours
here, is strengthening, the lights that we shine over
vast crowds can
leave us in vast cold darkness. Do you think all this is
just sour grapes?
If your question
is about something that I am missing, please explain it
to me. I will
appreciate that.
BTW it is very
clear that my response to your cornix messages, meant
compliments, not
to be offensive, RIGHT? Just to make sure, the word
"shit"
at the end may have been a poor choice. I just meant to say
that's what we do
with everything that we take in, we digest, and we
shit out the
rest. I was not offended by your mail. On the contrary, I
thought it was a
very effective, humorous, interesting, innovative way
to communicate to
the list people. You got across to us just how
intensely you
felt, you made us
uneasy a bit and got us to pay serious attention with
lightning quick
stabs wrapped in gentle humor and kindness. I do believe
you have a genius
for
communicating the
way that you do. I am glad you think enough about us
to give of
yourself as much as you do.
Peace friend
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:09:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus DR.
SAX!
whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been
there at one
>point, in
some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,
>and probably
no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly
>the characters
fighting things out right now are, to my mind,
>entirely
degraded and transparent as to their motivations and
>goals. No
heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only
>worse.
>
The above words of Mr. Anstee are so
utterly self-righteous that I
wonder where he's
been spending his free time.
Not content with belittling the efforts
of Jan Kerouac, and myself,
to preserve the
Jack Kerouac archive, he now attempts to play God, and to
tell us that
Truth and Justice no longer exist, so don't even try to attain
them, gang, let's
all just give up and let the world go to hell!
Nothing is right, nothing is wrong, and
Mr. Anstee created the world
in 7 days.
There is a right and a wrong in this
world, most of the time, and
I've put forth my
arguments about why I think preserving the Jack Kerouac
archive in a
library is the right thing to do, giving Paul Blake, Jr., a
share of the
Kerouac estate is the right thing to do, and letting Jan
Kerouac have a
decent burial (not on top of her grandmother to save two
slots in the
Kerouac family plot for the Sampas family) is the right thing
to do.
I'm still waiting for Mr. Anstee, Mr.
Chaput, and whatever other
Sampas supporters
lurk hereabouts to come out and tell me 1) why it is
better for John
Sampas to sell off the Kerouac archive to dealers and
collectors for
maximum profits; why it is better that the actual Kerouac
blood family get
no money from his estate so that all the money can go to
the Sampases (Jan
never got a penny from his estate, she got all her money
through the
federal copyright law, and Paul Blake, Jr. got nothing at all);
3) why it is
better for John Sampas to control Kerouac scholarship, the
Kerouac burial
plot, and all other things Kerouacian when there are still
living Kerouac's
around.
In rhetoric they call Mr. Anstee's and
Mr. Chaput's technique
"argument ad
hominum"--in Latin that means "against the man." When you
don't have any
good arguments to put forth, you call the other guy
"degraded"
or "power-mad" or whatever.
I'm still waiting for some real
argument on their
part.
As for sending Joe Grant a piece of his
email to me, I apologize,
Rod, but I've
been blasted by so many of you guys so quickly that I
originally
thought your earlier letter to me was from the CUNY BEAT LIST and
that Joe had
already seen the whole text, so it was no big deal letting him
see the part I
was responding to. You had asserted that
Joe was brainwashed
by me, so I
figured I might as well give you an equal chance (just kidding).
The truth is I am getting a little
punchy from being pinned down in
this ambush. I've answered probably over 100 questions in
10 days, while my
opponents answer
nothing. Sampas won't tell us what he's
sold, Anstee won't
tell us why he
won't publish his essay called "1400 dots" (or even let us
glimpse it here)
about how Ann Charters censored the SELECTED LETTERS at
Sampas's behest,
and Chaput won't say why I should donate money to a
committee that's
pulled every dirty trick in the book to keep me out of
Lowell--and
finally had the financial plug pulled on them by the National
Park Service for
their questionable dealings.
OK, fellas, you've had your crack at
me. I'll answer more of your
questions after
you answer a few of mine.
As for Rod revealing the hundreds
(thousands?) of documents I kindly
provided him over
the past 13 years, he can do what he wishes with them,
though I hope
he'll put them in a library and not auction them off to
collectors and
dealers, like his hero. I have nothing
to hide, and all said
and done will
probably lose money on Jack Kerouac till the day I die.
My wife isn't too happy about that
fact, but I care deeply about the
man and his work,
what he stood for, the spirituality he boosted in this
country at a time
when materialism had just about won the day, and the gift
of truth he gave
us all.
Jan cared about that too, and I'll go
the distance for that lady.
At least I'm
doing my best.
Adios, guys! As for Mr. Sampas, I'm still here, ready and
waiting,
to assist you in
getting the Kerouac archive into a library.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:08:10 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: The Literary
Influences of Jack Kerouac
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> are u a
horse-race?
YES !!!!! Make your bets now ... i'll hold the money.
:)
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:32:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
>
> Yes, I have
LAST OF THE MOCCASINS here, red cover, $3 on the back...I haven't
> read LAST
since about 1975. (SAX I re-read pretty regularly.)
I know that
someone may have asked this before but after an unsuccessful
attempt to locate
the Last of the Moccasins in a bookstore, I was
wondering if it
is still in print, and can it be ordered from any
bookstore?
Diane Carter
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 22:58:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
In-Reply-To: <970505200028_1685986959@emout15.mail.aol.com>
On Mon, 5 May
1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:
> I've been
thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to tell
> you I've
been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons.
[snip]
> I think it's
time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia. Is there
> really any
doubt why he's here? Is there really any
doubt what he's playing
> for? You may think he's misguided, but is there
really any doubt as to his
> sincerity?
[snip]
> What would
happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight?
[snip]
> No one has made one credible argument that
what he is stating is not true.
> And yet I haven't heard a lot of support
either.
[snip]
> I really
can't understand this.
[snip]
> And I'm not
necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this!
I'm after the truth!
[snip]
> And if not
us, here on the Beat-L, then who?
Jerry-- thanks
for the post that summed up what I've been thinking to a T.
While I've been
real interested in what's been going on, I haven't wanted to
get in the middle
of it or take sides even because it's not my place to --
all I know about
it is from these messages, and I was there at NYU when
Gerry and Jan got
kicked out, I was real confused -- there's Ann Charters
and Ginsberg etc.
just sitting there looking on while Kerouac's daughter &
biographer's
being taken out by police, what's going on? -- I'm actually
really sick of
all the bickering but it would be nice to see some kind of
resolution. It
could be just phantoms of my imagining but I get the feeling
that people who
know a good deal about this, or at least people who _should_
know, are not
saying anything. Maybe with good reason -- making accusations
in a public,
archived forum is never a popular move -- but I have no idea
what's
"really" going on in this Estate battle (besides the messages already
posted to this
list), and now that it's been dragged this far out into the
open there won't
be peace until there is a complete public resolution of the
situation.
> "Candor prevents
paranoia".
Oh, and the whole
time I was reading your post, this was the quote that kept
popping into my
head.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for
Help :-)
Bonni: Good
advice from B's daughter to wait a year.
Delightful story
about Phil Whalen He might have thought
you were casting
him as a wax role
modeloo. I still have his Blake book wth his name signed
neatly in it. I
remember his cottage maybe Noe Valley with a little flower
garden in front.
I was have rather a bad day on Sandoz Lysergic Acid when I
went to see him.
He put his hand around the back of my neck and made me look
at a flower until
I calmed down.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 22:12:52 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
> On Mon, 5
May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:
>
> > I've
been thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to
tell
> > you
I've been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons.
> [snip]
> > I think
it's time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia. Is
there
> > really
any doubt why he's here? Is there really
any doubt what he's playing
> >
for? You may think he's misguided, but
is there really any doubt as to his
> >
sincerity?
> [snip]
> > What
would happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight?
> [snip]
> > No one has made one credible argument that
what he is stating is not true.
> > And yet I haven't heard a lot of support
either.
> [snip]
> > I
really can't understand this.
> [snip]
> > And I'm
not necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this!
I'm after the
truth!
> [snip]
> > And if
not us, here on the Beat-L, then who?
>
> Jerry--
thanks for the post that summed up what I've been thinking to a T.
> While I've
been real interested in what's been going on, I haven't wanted to
> get in the
middle of it or take sides even because it's not my place to --
> all I know
about it is from these messages, and I was there at NYU when
> Gerry and
Jan got kicked out, I was real confused -- there's Ann Charters
> and Ginsberg
etc. just sitting there looking on while Kerouac's daughter &
> biographer's
being taken out by police, what's going on? -- I'm actually
> really sick
of all the bickering but it would be nice to see some kind of
> resolution.
It could be just phantoms of my imagining but I get the feeling
> that people
who know a good deal about this, or at least people who _should_
> know, are
not saying anything. Maybe with good reason -- making accusations
> in a public,
archived forum is never a popular move -- but I have no idea
> what's
"really" going on in this Estate battle (besides the messages already
> posted to
this list), and now that it's been dragged this far out into the
> open there
won't be peace until there is a complete public resolution of the
> situation.
>
> > "Candor prevents
paranoia".
> Oh, and the
whole time I was reading your post, this was the quote that kept
> popping into
my head.
I seriously doubt
that this issue will EVER be RESOLVED.
Perhaps
history will
provide some resolution but my guess is that the divisions
created during a
legal dispute concerning Kerouac's Things may spillover
into divisions
over scholarship (if they haven't already).
My
perception of
this thread is that I've learned a lot that I didn't know
up to this point,
but i seriously doubt that i am going to learn much
more. i applaud the notion of sending it
backchannel. i might have
been too subtle
earlier but my Nice Words post was about this
controversy. Nothing against any of the major or minor
characters.
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:17:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus DR.
SAX!
In-Reply-To:
<199705060209.TAA23409@germany.it.earthlink.net>
Dear Mr. Nicosia,
yeah, i could
just do the gerry or the gerald--but i guess i come from
the old school
where guys you don't know are Mistered; lost art, i think.
of course the
other reason i mister you is that i regard your bio of jk
one of the finest
critical biographies i have ever had the pelasure to
read. i go back to it so often that it is now in
the hallowed halls of
the
most-dog-eared books on my shelf; it is not only informative and
sensitive and
well-researched, it is also full of soul--obviously
kerouac's, but
also your own.
i just want to
say that i have been reading your posts quite avidly--and
those from the
Other Camp as well.
if tone and
substance mean anything anymore, and i steadfastly think that
they do, your
willingness to come on beat-l and talk and answer and tell
is worthy of many
kudos. the tone of the posts that bomb
you, that
pretend to
preseent a balanced view of oppositon to your
position--these
posts are vitriolic and angry and snotty--they come
up smelling
anything but like a rose, from guys lobbing grenades your
way. you came on list and said (pretty much) that
anything goes...you
were and are
willing to talk and answer... good for you--and good for us.
i, for one, have
enjoyed--and been educated--by your being here.
i don't
quite yet know
where i stand on the jk estate matter...but your reasoned
(and quite astute
and fair) position is quite persuasive.
that does not
mean i will not listen to the other side--
but the nub of
the whole thing seems to be that you favor one jk archive
and keeping the
goods together... this is an honorable position.
the folk who have
been stridently whacking at you are a bit too snippy and
acidic (yes,
rhetoric does
include notions
of ethos and pathos and logos!) for this pair of eyes and
ears. they may
flog their version of the logos, but....they seem much
happier with
snide asides and non sequitors--they zero in on the nicosia
as executor
angle--and this gets way in to straw-man and such fallacies.
i would like both
sides to keep talking... but, please, no more cheap
shots from what
is starting to look like the sampas-camp peanut gallery.
thanks--
best,
steve smith
english dept
portland state
university
portland, oregon
On Mon, 5 May
1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been
there at one
> >point,
in some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,
> >and
probably no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly
> >the
characters fighting things out right now are, to my mind,
> >entirely
degraded and transparent as to their motivations and
> >goals.
No heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only
> >worse.
> >
>
> The above words of Mr. Anstee are so
utterly self-righteous that I
> wonder where
he's been spending his free time.
> Not content with belittling the
efforts of Jan Kerouac, and myself,
> to preserve
the Jack Kerouac archive, he now attempts to play God, and to
> tell us that
Truth and Justice no longer exist, so don't even try to attain
> them, gang,
let's all just give up and let the world go to hell!
> Nothing is right, nothing is wrong,
and Mr. Anstee created the world
> in 7 days.
> There is a right and a wrong in this
world, most of the time, and
> I've put
forth my arguments about why I think preserving the Jack Kerouac
> archive in a
library is the right thing to do, giving Paul Blake, Jr., a
> share of the
Kerouac estate is the right thing to do, and letting Jan
> Kerouac have
a decent burial (not on top of her grandmother to save two
> slots in the
Kerouac family plot for the Sampas family) is the right thing
> to do.
> I'm still waiting for Mr. Anstee, Mr.
Chaput, and whatever other
> Sampas
supporters lurk hereabouts to come out and tell me 1) why it is
> better for
John Sampas to sell off the Kerouac archive to dealers and
> collectors
for maximum profits; why it is better that the actual Kerouac
> blood family
get no money from his estate so that all the money can go to
> the Sampases
(Jan never got a penny from his estate, she got all her money
> through the
federal copyright law, and Paul Blake, Jr. got nothing at all);
> 3) why it is
better for John Sampas to control Kerouac scholarship, the
> Kerouac
burial plot, and all other things Kerouacian when there are still
> living
Kerouac's around.
> In rhetoric they call Mr. Anstee's and
Mr. Chaput's technique
>
"argument ad hominum"--in Latin that means "against the
man." When you
> don't have
any good arguments to put forth, you call the other guy
>
"degraded" or "power-mad" or whatever. I'm still waiting for some real
> argument on
their part.
>
> As for sending Joe Grant a piece of
his email to me, I apologize,
> Rod, but
I've been blasted by so many of you guys so quickly that I
> originally
thought your earlier letter to me was from the CUNY BEAT LIST and
> that Joe had
already seen the whole text, so it was no big deal letting him
> see the part
I was responding to. You had asserted
that Joe was brainwashed
> by me, so I
figured I might as well give you an equal chance (just kidding).
>
> The truth is I am getting a little
punchy from being pinned down in
> this
ambush. I've answered probably over 100
questions in 10 days, while my
> opponents
answer nothing. Sampas won't tell us
what he's sold, Anstee won't
> tell us why
he won't publish his essay called "1400 dots" (or even let us
> glimpse it
here) about how Ann Charters censored the SELECTED LETTERS at
> Sampas's
behest, and Chaput won't say why I should donate money to a
> committee
that's pulled every dirty trick in the book to keep me out of
> Lowell--and finally
had the financial plug pulled on them by the National
> Park Service
for their questionable dealings.
> OK, fellas, you've had your crack at
me. I'll answer more of your
> questions
after you answer a few of mine.
> As for Rod revealing the hundreds
(thousands?) of documents I kindly
> provided him
over the past 13 years, he can do what he wishes with them,
> though I
hope he'll put them in a library and not auction them off to
> collectors
and dealers, like his hero. I have
nothing to hide, and all said
> and done
will probably lose money on Jack Kerouac till the day I die.
> My wife isn't too happy about that
fact, but I care deeply about the
> man and his
work, what he stood for, the spirituality he boosted in this
> country at a
time when materialism had just about won the day, and the gift
> of truth he
gave us all.
> Jan cared about that too, and I'll go
the distance for that lady.
> At least I'm
doing my best.
> Adios, guys! As for Mr. Sampas, I'm still here, ready and
waiting,
> to assist
you in getting the Kerouac archive into a library.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:22:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
I don't know
anything about the issue, and I'm known for saying what I feel.
I think you make
a good appeal. When it plays out, we'll see the Johnsons and
the Shits.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:37:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
The City Lights
edition (the one in the post) is out of print. The new
edition is
available through Waterrow (waterrow@aol.com).
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:08:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
Or through your
favorite local bookseller. But you might
have to make
them look
hard. It wasn't showing on the store's
computer but it was in
the most recent
print "Books in Print" when I ordered it today.
James
The new
> edition is
available through Waterrow (waterrow@aol.com).
> Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:14:20 +0000
Reply-To: morocco@walrus.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Elegiac Feelings
Comments: cc:
BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu
The following
poem is part of a web poem which can be found at:
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/bl/elegiac.html
This was composed
last year.
--------------------
backyard in
brooklyn
by Gregory
Severance
oooh oooh
brooklyn sirens
squint
against what
brilliance of tree on Flatbush Avenue
history murmuring
sirens wailing
wailing sirens sirens wailing
steel pistols
resting on a pillow
owning nature the
buildings
sweet lonely
fallen on RR track
would deny
loveliness in dream moment
botanical
soundings clucking asked me
who sees your
bodies
this dream in a
circle
loveliness in
mortal form
I travelled the entire
length of every
kindness past
staggering from
levee to levee
always denying
inspired roads
Kesey's in Oregon
the war the war
is reborn
cherry bare
breasted woman statue
wept with tears
without tears
I sobbed my sins
to La Guardia
birds unfamiliar sirens wailing
who cringes
during discourse of spirit
the great in
heart horrible instead
peace and
acceptance
a phantom
skeleton
meaty baby
dream moment
military tyranny
arms
murmuring history
world is released
green with leaves
from flesh forms
laden with white
blossoms
prayers completed
the breasts
I pursued
delusion consciously
some gathering on
every road the state of kansas pavements galore
I lay trembling
war-fear ended
* + * + * + * + *
+ * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Leaving
Texas, fourth day of July."
-- Grateful Dead
["Jack Straw"]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"... a
gallon of desperate whiskey a day it took
ye to look that
America in its disembodied eye"
-- Gregory Corso
["Elegiac Feelings American"]
* + * + * + * + *
+ * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:01:04 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Subject: Levi's Question
Dear Gerald,
It well may be
that it is just wonderful that you are fighting the war
that you do. It
seems that everyone is acknowledging at least that we
all are already
beneficiaries of the way you have forced hands to give
up more to the
public. I don't doubt your sincerity and your belief in
your cause. If
the will was forged I would support you as much as I
could to go on
and to win the case. I do not wish to add disheartening
burdens to your
shoulders.
BTW, I do not
concur with some opinions that have been expressed, that
the courts have
the power to determine the truth. I have had lots of
court experience
on various drug related charges, have dealt with quite
a few attorneys.
Only one of them insisted that he only wanted to know
the truth. Let's
say he didn't want to be told that what he was given to
present was not
the truth. He had to be very stupid to believe the lies
my witnesses were
telling him. Every other lawyer that I had was
insisting that
you have to fight fire with fire and the other side lies,
forcing us to,
that you have to appear believable to win and to not even
hint at the truth
if it doesn't appear believable to the limited rules
of evidence of
the judge or jury.
What is
believable to judges and juries has to do more with how they
interpret
artificially recreated situations, that often exaggerate minor
matters and rule
out of court factors that are essential to understand
what was really
going on. Some doubts may never clear up, even though
the courts are
forced to make up their minds one way or another. Should
the courts not
find sufficient evidence for forgery, from having read
carefully your
material and your opponents' material, I would still
believe there is
a possibility that the courts did not uncover the
truth.
I still have some
nagging questions though about whether your opponents
are given to do
things that you would not. I asked you this morning to
clarify your
answer to Levi's question. Since you didn't answer, I went
back over it to
see if can tell better what you said. The only
conclusion that I
can come to is that you are suggesting that Levi
wanted you to
release material to the public, but that you couldn't do
it for legal
reasons. Are you saying that Levi wanted you to do
something
illegal, that you explained to him that you couldn't do it
because it was
illegal, and that he still wanted you to do it? I just
don't believe
that of Levi.
Unless you
explain it better to me, this is the conclusion that I am
forced to live
with. And if that is the case then I must conclude that
you are likely
yourself to do things that are no more right than what
you tell us to
expect from your opponents.
I hope that you
will show me where I am wrong here. I also realize that
there may be
other reasons that make it difficult for you to explain
further. There
may also be quite sound legal reasons that prevent your
opponents from
entering any discussion before the case is over. I will
try to keep an
open mind. I do not feel that the universe owes me
explanations and
revelations about anyone's shortcomings or mistakes.
Regardless of
what the outcome might be, I admire your courage,
perseverance, and
sincere efforts to educate us to your perspective. I
have also enjoyed
your passionate style of advocacy. Thanks for your
readable,
enlightening posts, even if I wish there was less personal
acrimony
expressed. Any worthy cause would be very lucky to have you as
an advocate.
leon
This morning's
post:
> I continue
to pay reluctant close attention to this very tasteless, rude
> incessant
intrusion that we have been bombarded with lately. At the same
> time I am
also grateful for the information that broadens my
>
understanding of matters beat, writing, publishing, authoring, and life
> at the end
of the twentieth century. Not just in the USA. I am
> fascinated
by the energy, intelligence and devotion, seemingly to the
> cause. What
cause, a cause that I haven't completely bought yet. Even
> forgetting
the objections raised by Rod and others. Comes now Levi's
> entry, and
what's this? Do I see a stumble? Do you consider this an
> adequate
response? A legal right is sufficient reason for you and is
> there a
total absence of need for moral reason(s) when it comes to your
> actions? Am
I overlooking something here?
> leon
>
> .-
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:28:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Weinberg's corrections
To followers of
the Beat List Kerouac Estate battles:
Mr. Weinberg asks
for the following corrections:
1) he works out
of Sudbury, Mass, not Fitchburg
2) Richard Marcel
did purchase Kerouac items. My clumsy
prose (excuse me)
made it sound as
if he were one of the dealers who refused to buy any
because the
prices were too high. There were
definitely dealers who claimed
the latter, like
Peter Howard of Serendipity in Berkeley.
3) Mr. Weinberg only revealed to me the names of
customers who had
consented to have
their names made public. He wants it
known that he
respects the
privacy of his customers if they require privacy.
4) Mr. Weinberg
completed the sale of BOOK OF DREAMS to a private collector.
The sale of
MEXICO CITY BLUES to a private collector was almost complete
when Mr. Sampas
decided to raise the price. To the best
of Mr. Weinberg's
knowledge, the
collector then apparently bought the MCB notebooks directly
from Mr. Sampas
so that Mr. Weinberg's commission would not have to be paid,
thus lowering the
overall price.
5) Mr. Weinberg was not fired. He states that he quit working for Mr.
Sampas because
the job was becoming too stressful. As
reasons for this
problem, he cites
Mr. Sampas continually raising the price of Kerouac items
(thus making it
difficult for Mr. Weinberg to keep on good terms with his
clients) and Mr.
Sampas pulling out of a deal with the Bancroft Library in
Berkeley that he
(Mr. Weinberg) had worked on for several months. Mr.
Weinberg
apparently had the Bancroft ready to come across with a million
dollars for the
entire Kerouac archive in 1991, but at some point late in
the negotiations,
Mr. Sampas ceased cooperating.
I find this last tidbit of literary
history fascinating, since Jan
Kerouac later
attempted to get her father's archive into the very same
library, not
knowing that Jeffrey Weinberg had tried to talk Mr. Sampas into
placing it there
three years earlier. Jan liked the
"feel" of the
Bancroft--marble
and old wood and beautiful glass display cases--and she
especially liked
librarian Tony Bliss, who with his balding head, moustache,
round spectacles,
and gentle voice was like a father figure to her (though
he looked nothing
like Jack!).
I apologize for these errors. My only excuse is having had to pour
out ten thousand
words on this subject in ten days, which did not always
give me time to
resort to years of notes in literally hundreds of
folders--but to
rely on that most fallible of allies, one's memory.
There was only one Memory Babe, folks,
and we know that even HE got
it wrong once in
a while.
I
would like to add, again, that I hold no grudge against Mr.
Weinberg. Whenever I get too high and mighty in my
artistic morality, my
wife, who is a
businessperson, reminds me that it is the job of
businesspeople to
make money for their clients. What
impresses me now is
the sincerity of
Mr. Weinberg in wishing to end the piecemeal selling-off of
Kerouac items,
and to clear a way for bigger and better Kerouac scholarship
in the future.
No one is asking Mr. Sampas (or Mr.
Nicosia) (or Mr. or Ms. Anyone)
to stop making
money. Those of us who care about
Kerouac scholarship are
simply asking him
to trade off a part of those windfall profits in the
interests of
posterity. Too much to ask?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:28:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Mr. Jerry
Cimino's four page soliloquy made me feel that the last ten days
of pouring out my
heart here, and taking flak from every direction, was
worth it to have
touched one person that deeply.
Mr. Cimino
understands what is going on. Jan
Kerouac was not trying to make
a million dollars
when she knew she had months, or at most a few more years,
to live. Gerald
Nicosia is not trying to run the world; he'd like to get
back to his book
on the healing of Vietnam veterans, called HOME TO WAR, and
also get back to
his family and the demands of his two-year-old daughter Wu
Ji. No one is asking to crucify John Sampas.
We're asking for
what should have been done years ago: the permanent
preservation and
scholarly access to Jack Kerouac's magnificent literary
archive, the
life's work of a true American literary genius.
And maybe a
little justice for the Kerouac family.
Mr. Cimino knows
that is not such a terrible thing. And
he knows that Jan
Kerouac and I
asked quietly at first, with no results, so our voices kept
rising. Maybe they rose too loud. And maybe it's time to lower them again.
But the BIG
QUESTION IS: Will they EVER be heard???
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 02:42:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: A break from the Kerouac controversy....
Hey Beat Folks--
I have just finished 'One Flew Over The
Cukoo's Nest' and have heard
Kessey referred
to as Beat on the list so I figure this falls under the
jurisdiction of this
list. I loved that book! Great. Fantastic. Excellent
read.
What do you folks think of it..and..is it a
good indicator of Kessey's
other work? (as I
am unfamiliar this being his forst I have read)
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 06:03:25 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the nest
Dean M. Palmer
wrote:
>
> Hey Beat
Folks--
> I have just finished 'One Flew Over The
Cukoo's Nest' and have heard
> Kessey
referred to as Beat on the list so I figure this falls under the
> jurisdiction
of this list. I loved that book! Great. Fantastic. Excellent
> read.
> What do you folks think of it..and..is it a
good indicator of Kessey's
> other work?
(as I am unfamiliar this being his forst I have read)
>
> Dean Palmer
>
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
> man answers
and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
> hangs up,
wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
> some damn
fool who
> wanted to
know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
>
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
I loved Cuckoo's
nest but had trouble following it through the fogs at
time. i enjoyed the movie too. Once in the Hospital with five nurses
trying to calm me
I suddenly (not intentionally) broke out of it and
asked the nurses
if I was doing better than Jack??
Recently i saw the
story on the
KEY-Z webpage (or a story) about the origin of the narrator
Chief
Bromden. I immediately found the book in
the piles and began
reading it
again. Suddenly with this insight and
the insight of
multiple
hospitalizations in less intrusive but sometimes parallel
mental units, the
novel is a joy to read again.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:16:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac question
Dear Gerry:
Hoping you won't
mind a non-Sampas question. I'm putting
together a walking
tour of Kerouac's
New York and wanted to include a statement concerning
Jack's arrest
after the Kammerer murder. Would it be
correct to say that
Kerouac was
arrested for "failing to report a crime" or that he was
arrested?/held
"as a material witness". Which
do you think is right? Anyone
else is welcome
to comment too.
Thanks,
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:08:19 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
well said Jerry/
i have appreciated the time and care people
have takin trying to
explain the
history and the confusions on the estate matter, I even
appreciated the
blows of email from rinaldo, after those, either
complicated or
nasty postings, those desperate one liners were a
break.. I have thought the vindictiveness and
namecalling shown was
what was better
left to the latter stages of alcohlism. but i am a tea
totler. I thought
it was interesting when some one said they were glad
jk was dead, so
not to see this. maybe it is some sort
of anger
connected to jk
giving so much in literature and vision and then killing
himself with
alcohol. I have always felt that he had
a long drawn out
type of death,
where his drunkeness and bitterness and helplessness
created a series
of deaths.
I have no
personal knowledge but the assault of fame on his
sensibilities
seemed to wound him so.
I wish that at
the heart of the debate was just money, not the scraps
and heart of
jacks' legacy. I wish that poor jan was
treated by her
fathers fans with
more dignanty and that fellow in the trailer living at
his neighbors had
a shake of luck.
what i have heard
of stella and her family was that they
knew a
different jack
than neal did. I would quess if the
"will" was forged a
adjustment of
ownership would happen but i wish i could see any window
for righting
wrongs.
The real prisoner is the manuscripts. The real
villian is probably the
money. But once a
promise to a dying woman is made it makes compromise
hard to reach,
making a new promise to jack might make it easier.
I was totally
screwed cheated, threatened out of my last job by two sick
do nothings, and
i saw them destroy things that i had worked years on
and i honestly
felt hatred and wished for justice. well a year later
when i asked my
mother what she wanted for her birthday , she said to
forgive them. now
she didn't mean hang out with bad guys or to excuse
them but to
forgive them. I was aghast, they had even insulted her
during the
fracas. But i am finding ways to do it.
I resented losing
the money,
usually gave a lot to charity. so now i volunteer a little
more and am
looking up charities in the various states unclaimed
property
accounts. I examine the obstacles between me and freedom and
start kicking
away at them.
p
I had not heard
the Edie K had died, when did that happen?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:27:12 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Comments: To:
RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <336F0FFD.40F3@midusa.net>
ah always blown
away by cuckoos nest alrigt. and the movie is a peice of
pure genius as
well (i thin thta kesey said hes never seen it tho) one
thhing that
really exposed how kesey wrote was the critcal edition of
cuckoos nest as
well as _kesey_ which i think is avail from www.key-z.net
or something like
that. explains how early drafts and sections (black boys
coming for me and
all) written on lsd in hosp ( ithink) and has sketches
of the various
characers to help him get handle of where they're going,
etc. one touch i
always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
patrick mcmurphy
= R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
(neal)??
anyway yr rigt
grand piece o lit.
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:01:08 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> ah always
blown away by cuckoos nest alrigt. and the movie is a peice of
> pure genius
as well (i thin thta kesey said hes never seen it tho) one
> thhing that
really exposed how kesey wrote was the critcal edition of
> cuckoos nest
as well as _kesey_ which i think is avail from www.key-z.net
> or something
like that. explains how early drafts and sections (black boys
> coming for
me and all) written on lsd in hosp ( ithink) and has sketches
> of the
various characers to help him get handle of where they're going,
> etc. one
touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
> patrick
mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
> (neal)??
> anyway yr
rigt grand piece o lit.
> derek
from what I read
at Key-Z, he had no narrator and then had an
hallucination of
this Indian and thought ... "now i have a narrator" or
something to that
effect. .. . :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:23:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
In a message
dated 97-05-05 23:31:35 EDT, you write:
<< know
that someone may have asked this before but after an unsuccessful
attempt to locate the Last of the Moccasins in
a bookstore, I was
wondering if it is still in print, and can it
be ordered from any
bookstore?
Diane Carter
>>
Dear Diane and
Fellow Beat-L members:
You can order
Charlie Plymell's book "Last of the Moccasins" from me here a t
Water Row Books.
The paper edition
is $12.00
and we have
hardcover copies signed by Charles Plymell for $20.00
Mention the
Beat-L and shipping is free..
MC/Visa accepted.
Satisfaction guaranteed....
Thanks -
Jeffrey Weinberg
(Charlie's cousin),
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:12:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Levi's Question
In-Reply-To: <336EAD00.60CD@cruzio.com> from
"Leon Tabory" at May 5,
97 09:01:04 pm
Leon wrote:
> I still have
some nagging questions though about whether your opponents
> are given to
do things that you would not. I asked you this morning to
> clarify your
answer to Levi's question. Since you didn't answer, I went
> back over it
to see if can tell better what you said. The only
> conclusion
that I can come to is that you are suggesting that Levi
> wanted you
to release material to the public, but that you couldn't do
> it for legal
reasons. Are you saying that Levi wanted you to do
> something
illegal, that you explained to him that you couldn't do it
> because it
was illegal, and that he still wanted you to do it? I just
> don't
believe that of Levi.
I think I can
clear this confusion up -- when Gerry and I referred
to "legal
reasons" in our posts we were not talking in terms of
whether an act
was illegal or not, but whether an act would
be legally unwise
or not -- specifically, that by letting me
publish Jan's
excerpt Gerry for free would be exposing himself to
criticism that he
was being lax with Jan's estate, which could be
used against him
by others claiming rights to the estate.
I hope we can put
aside that whole side-issue, anyway. As
for the
deeper issues, I
remain agnostic.
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:24:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Using the Brain God Gave You
Lay awake last nite thinking about
Anstee's advice that "it's too
complex--don't
try to sort it out--don't try to judge."
It reminded me of
what the hawks
used to say during the Vietnam War: "Don't try to understand
the war in
Vietnam--it's wrong to protest it--the guys in Washington [read:
Mr. Sampas &
Co.] know what they're doing--just wait and see."
I.e., wait and see while another 10,000
guys get killed and maimed
this month [wait
and see while yet more Kerouac pieces get sold off]. But
those of us in
the Antiwar Movement used our COMMON SENSE, which told us
that killing
people was wrong, whether or not we knew and understood all the
inner secrets of
the thing; and I urge you to use COMMON SENSE in this affair.
My common sense says that Jack
Kerouac's archives should be
preserved and
made accessible now ["Bring the troops home--NOW!"] You don't
have to listen to
mine--why should you?--but, please, LISTEN TO YOUR OWN.
You don't need to
go on a wild goose chase for some supposed cache of secret
documents that
Mr. Anstee would like to send you on--some supposed PENTAGON
PAPERS of the
Kerouac Estate Fight, which exists nowhere that I know
of--except
perhaps in the desk drawer where Mr. Sampas keeps his financial
records--and there's
no way any of you are ever going to get to that.
THE POINT OF THIS, by the way, is not
that selling off a writer's
papers is as bad
as making war--IT'S NOT, BY A LONG SHOT.
The point is: you
can often use
your common sense to tell you things the experts can't.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:47:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
As far Kesey
goes, my favorite is SOMETIMES A GREAT NOTION. I don't think this
is a book for
everyone but I love the language he uses, the story, everything.
It's a whopper
too, you can re-read it every year! Set in the logging towns of
the pacific
northwest, it makes great use of the landscape in descriptive
detail as head
union hauncho, Hank Stamper, does not give in to the big
corporate
badguys! Give it a try, not nearly as commercial as CUCKOO'S NEST
(which I also
loved).
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:17:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
> one touch i
always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
>patrick
mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
>(neal)??
Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
seems like it....
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:58:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
In-Reply-To:
<19970506.151712.18022.0.dean_palmer@juno.com>
ive heard the
story both ways that kesey did know cassady and that rpm is
based on him, and
ive also heard something along the lines that kesey haad
finished the book
at cassady went to him, showing up at his house
unannounced after
the book was published. maybe someone closer to neal
(leon, charles,
etc) or kesey could give us some details. how 'bout it
gang? any one
wanna be the definitive word?
yrs
derek
On Tue, 6 May
1997, Dean M. Palmer wrote:
>
> > one
touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
> >patrick
mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
> >(neal)??
>
> Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
> seems like
it....
> Dean Palmer
>
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
> man answers
and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
> hangs up,
wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
> some damn
fool who
> wanted to
know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
>
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:01:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: QAA27720 on bay (hop 0), Tue, 6 May 1997
16:01:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randi Jaclyn Friedman
<rfiedma@GROVE.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chimes at Midnight
Comments: To:
RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33588527.768B@midusa.net>
please will
someone tell me how to get off this list server. It is messing
up my entire
inbox messages. There are just too many emails for me to read
. So ,if you are
in charge of this please help me get out
of this
RAndi
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:02:20 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> ive heard
the story both ways that kesey did know cassady and that rpm is
> based on
him, and ive also heard something along the lines that kesey haad
> finished the
book at cassady went to him, showing up at his house
> unannounced
after the book was published. maybe someone closer to neal
> (leon,
charles, etc) or kesey could give us some details. how 'bout it
> gang? any
one wanna be the definitive word?
> yrs
> derek
>
> On Tue, 6
May 1997, Dean M. Palmer wrote:
>
> >
> > >
one touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
> >
>patrick mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
> >
>(neal)??
> >
> > Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
> > seems
like it....
> > Dean Palmer
> >
> >
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
> >
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
> > man
answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
> > hangs
up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
> > some
damn fool who
> > wanted
to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
> >
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
> >
maybe Cassady was
based on RPM ??? :)
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:26:16 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: b
just i came in
the computer room,
i'm the guy who switch the light,
now i can write,
just i came in
the computer room,
i'm the guy who switch the light,
now i can write,
"Derek A.
Beaulieu"
Patricia Elliott
Leon Tabory
James Stauffer
RACE ---
now i must to switch off
the vedova's crab is
can caught me,
nighttime save me,
open yes open eyes
beat
beetle
beet
bee
be
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:26:13 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: One Flew OVER the nest.
be beat!,
reading the
newspaper,
fernanda pivano 80 years old today,
the lay in the terrific foto...
talks
'bout the beat:
""The
evening that I have met Cassidy, the protagonist of "On The Road"
by Jack Kerouac,
after any very amusing passed hour together,
he accompanied me
in hotel and wanted to climb, normal era.
But I explained
him that I slept only always. Cassidy looked at me
lunatic like
ditches: "you don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't fuck.
But because have
you wanted to know me?" - fernanda pivano then writes:
"All my
friends beat lived for the unemployed person of the subsidies,
200& or 300$
to the month that they allowed him to survive.
They drank much
tea.""
one,
two,
three,
tutti giu' per terra!
*a not competent
beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:26:14 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Ken Kesey
be beat! be
beat!! be beat!!!
after "One
Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" wrote another
wonderful book i
read in 70's 'bout hobo lifes, it's
a wonder, but i
missed a bunch of things...
* the beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:49:34 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
be beat! check
this site, please,
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/ginsberg/ginsberg.html
rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:33:23 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
One@cruzio.com, Two@cruzio.com, Three@cruzio.com,
Four@cruzio.com, Flew@cruzio.com,
OVER@cruzio.com, the@cruzio.com,
nest@cruzio.com
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> ive heard
the story both ways that kesey did know cassady and that rpm is
> based on
him, and ive also heard something along the lines that kesey haad
> finished the
book at cassady went to him, showing up at his house
> unannounced
after the book was published. maybe someone closer to neal
> (leon,
charles, etc) or kesey could give us some details. how 'bout it
> gang? any
one wanna be the definitive word?
> yrs
> derek
Not a definitive
word. I do recall though having driven with Neal to
Kesey's place
some time before the book was out. Neal brought me a copy
when it first
came out to look at. I recall Neal telling me about how
Ken was writing
while high on acid working at the VA hospital in Palo
Alto. I don't
recall dates, but it was when I still lived at the Cassady
(your spelling is
correct) home. To the best of my recollection, and I
think I would
have remembered, Neal did not think it was based on him.
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:55:06 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"Reppublica Italiano"@cruzio.com
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> be beat!
check this site, please,
>
>
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/ginsberg/ginsberg.html
>
> rinaldo.
> .-
Another great
picture! Interesting how much you can understand in a
foreign language
when you know what they are talking about.
What's happening
to the Italian language?:
> 35 MINUTI DI
VIDEO IN WINDOW MOTION
Ciao amici
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:27:11 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 5 May 1997 20:00:32 -0400
from
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Let me say that I
think the estate battle is certainly an appropriate
topic for the
list. Anyone who doesn't want to read
about it can delete
those posts. I'm not sure, however, that anything that
anyone has to
say on the list
will make any difference as far as the outcome goes. I
haven't seen the
will and wouldn't know whether or not it was authentic
if I did. If the parties involved can't come to some
agreement--and it
certainly looks
like they never will--then it is up to the courts to
decide. We can all have our opinions but they aren't
going to decide
anything.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:32:21 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> Let me say
that I think the estate battle is certainly an appropriate
> topic for
the list. Anyone who doesn't want to
read about it can delete those
posts.
I may have
mistyped if it seemed that i was suggesting that the estate
questions were
inappropriate. it would have been easy
to read that into
my comments. i meant something else -- i think.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:40:40 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Ginsberg]
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------770F2C706431
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
thought this
might seem of interest to those on the list.
dbr
--------------770F2C706431
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline
Received: from
deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu (deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu
[128.205.7.57])
by services.midusa.net (8.8.5/8.8.5)
with SMTP id RAA05115
for <race@MIDUSA.NET>; Tue, 6 May
1997 17:35:31 -0500 (CDT)
Received: (qmail
10164 invoked from network); 6 May 1997 22:32:04 -0000
Received: from
listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35)
by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 6
May 1997 22:32:04 -0000
Received: from
LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU by LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
(LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
spool id 13518734 for
HWY61-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU;
Tue, 6 May 1997 18:32:00 -0400
Received: (qmail
17557 invoked from network); 6 May 1997 22:21:53 -0000
Received: from
auvm.american.edu (smtp@147.9.1.2) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu
with SMTP; 6 May 1997 22:21:53 -0000
Received: from
AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU by AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with
BSMTP id 9642; Tue, 06 May 97
18:17:58 EDT
Received: from
AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU (NJE origin NETNEWS@AUVM) by AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
(LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id
2040; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:17:58 -0400
Path:
auvm!paladin.american.edu!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.de.ibm.net!
ibm.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!europa.clark.net!news-peer.gsl.net!portc01.blue.ao
l.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
References:
<335B90E0.72AA@indiana.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host:
ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin:
news@aol.com
Xref:
paladin.american.edu rec.music.dylan:78117
Message-ID:
<19970506191000.PAA21257@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:11:31 GMT
Reply-To: The Bob
Dylan Discussion List <HWY61-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: The Bob
Dylan Discussion List <HWY61-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ness908
<ness908@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL
http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Ginsberg
To:
HWY61-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Since we are on
the subject of condeming people for their wrong doings as
far as the
Christian belief goes. Let me start by
saying, yes Allen
Ginsberg was gay
from birth, he had very little control over it and felt
guilty and spent
two or three years trying to disown his desires. He grew
up with a
psycopathic mother and had a lot going on in his mind. After he
figured out his
life, he began to express it's hard bearing on his keeping
it all in. He wrote thousands of amazing poems and with
the help of other
Beatniks, he
changed the world from their blinding propaganda of the
fifties into a
very liberal and anti war ideal of the sixties.
Without
Ginsberg, Bob
Dylan wouldn't have had the courage to Think Twice about the
way anything
was. Don't condem Dylan for respecting a
great man who
brought us to the
realization that the The Times Are A Changin', even
before Dylan
himself did. Don't judge this great man
for his so called "
Evil Earnigs For
Young Boys" don't get me wrong, I don't think that it's
right by any
means to crave people of the same sex, but I do know that it
happens and until
we really understand it, no one should be going around
saying that
there's no excuse for it.
If you want to
think that evil is evil for no reason and use the Bible to
make up for your
hatered then go right ahead, but the only great leason
that I get out of
the Bible is that you should love those who you don't
understand and
pray for their sins. I'm only sixteen but
I feel like I've
got a hell of a
better understanding about this than most of you do.
Feel free to E
Mail me about this or any Dylan related stuff, I'm glad to
be tested in the
area of Dylan Trivia.
Thanks, Nathan
--------------770F2C706431--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jake Barnes is beat (was "More
on dope")
In a message
dated 97-05-04 19:54:52 EDT, you write:
<< the beat
is a beet
the beat is a beet
the beat is a beet
the beat is a beet
the beat is a beet >>
I don't think
there is anything rong wit doooope, do you?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:47:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: ORIGINAL vs COPY
Just an aside,
what would happen if copies of all of
Kerouac's papers end up
in a Library, and
the originals are sold off to the highest buyer (or
whoever).
Is it enough to
just have the words-- complete, that are accessible to the
public? DO the
originals have to be available?
This is a
philosophical question.
enjoy, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:39:27 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING"@cruzio.com
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> Let me say
that I think the estate battle is certainly an appropriate
> topic for
the list. Anyone who doesn't want to
read about it can delete
> those
posts. I'm not sure, however, that
anything that anyone has to
> say on the
list will make any difference as far as the outcome goes. I
> haven't seen
the will and wouldn't know whether or not it was authentic
> if I
did. If the parties involved can't come
to some agreement--and it
> certainly
looks like they never will--then it is up to the courts to
> decide. We can all have our opinions but they aren't
going to decide
> anything.
> .-
In the end the
court of public opinion may have its own conclusions,
regardless of the
outcome in a court of law. It might be very
interesting after
all is said and done to ask for the opinions of the
BEAT-L people,
what percentage concurs, how many think the will was
forged, etc..
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:14:30 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 May 1997 09:16:58 -0400
from <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Good question,
Bill. I always thought he was held as
"a material witness." Ma
ybe I got it from
the newspaper clips. If Gerry, doesn't
have an answer I'll b
e glad to do some
digging.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:28:08 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 May 1997 10:24:31 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Ah c'mon Gerry,
the estate battle is VERY important but you can't compare it to
the Vietnam War
and whatever Rod is doing, he's not getting anybody killed. Ta
lk about ad
hominem arguments!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:32:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 May 1997 10:24:31 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
My apologies,
Gerry. Once again I jumped the gun. Reading your post a
second time, I
see that we agree after all.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:01:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
At 08:14 PM
5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Good
question, Bill. I always thought he was
held as "a material witness."
Ma
>ybe I got it
from the newspaper clips. If Gerry,
doesn't have an answer I'll b
>e glad to do
some digging.
>
>Wasn't he
held for aiding and abetting a felon because he helped get rid of
the knife? Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:55:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
At 08:28 PM
5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Ah c'mon
Gerry, the estate battle is VERY important but you can't compare it to
>the Vietnam
War and whatever Rod is doing, he's not getting anybody killed. Ta
>lk about ad
hominem arguments!
>
>
Didn't you read
Nicosia's post.
He began this by
writing this
"It reminded
me of what the hawks used to say during the Vietnam War"
Notice he said
"it reminded me?" Not "it
is just like".
He ended with
this to make sure people would understand (it's called
telegraphing)
"THE POINT
OF THIS, by the way, is not that selling off a writer's
papers is as bad
as making war--IT'S NOT, BY A LONG SHOT."
Have you ever
heard of this thing called an anology or a metaphor?
BTW, I am too
young to remember the Vietnam War and that controversy, but
off the top of my
head it seems that the rationale and well meaning of those
who did fight the
vietnam war (the hawk position)is much much much
infinitely higher
than some guy trying to use his aunt's inheritance to make
a buck fast off
something that really does belong to the readers of the world.
The Hawks at
least were trying to protect people from great evil. Even
Ginsberg in his
old age admitted he was wrong about the Viet Cong and didn't
know they would
be so bad.
remember all the
world is a stage.
(is Shakespeare
seriously comparing the thousands of square miles of the
earth to the few
meters that is in a theater's stage?)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:56:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
At 08:32 PM
5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>My apologies,
Gerry. Once again I jumped the gun. Reading your post a
>second time,
I see that we agree after all.
>
>
Boom,
and I didn't read
this post before I wrote my reply
barn doors open
wide
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:37:45 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
My favorite too,
but you've got it wrong. The union guys
are the bad
guys, Hank
Stamper is an independant, non union, mostly family operator
who refuses to
bow to union pressure. But great
characters and
language. Probably one of the reasons I spent a lot of
years working in
the woods
myself. The movie made of the book with
Paul Newman is less
satisfactory. Kesey wrote two damn good novels with
"Notion" and
"Cuckoo". The things that have come later have been
mostly
disappointing to
me, but I haven't read Sailor's Song.
J Stauffer
MORE OXY THAN
MORON wrote:
>
> As far Kesey
goes, my favorite is SOMETIMES A GREAT NOTION. . . . Set in the
logging towns of
> the pacific
northwest, it makes great use of the landscape in descriptive
> detail as
head union hauncho, Hank Stamper, does not give in to the big
> corporate
badguys!
> Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:43:15 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Dean,
I am not sure
exactly when Cassidy first started coming around Kesey but
it was during the
period that Kesey was living at Perry Lane near
Stanford, working
at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park and writing the book.
Whether Cuckoo
was already a work in progress of not, I don't know, but
it is hard not to
see at least some Cassidy in Randle tho I think Randle
is more a
creation of Kesey's using bits from Neal than the Cassidy
characters
Kerouac did.
J Stauffer
Dean M. Palmer
wrote: . .
>
> Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
> seems like
it....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:50:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leslie Diane Hurst <n9442280@SCOOTER.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac's arrest
Comments: To:
James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To: <336FEAD3.582A@pacbell.net>
In Ann Charter's
compilation of JK's selected letters, she comments that
is was as a
material witness that he was arrested.
Leslie:)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:58:58 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's arrest
But now that we
all have been made aware that Anne Charters is only a
paid stooge of
John Sampas we need to look pretty skeptically at this.
I think John Sampas
done it.
James
Leslie Diane
Hurst wrote:
>
> In Ann
Charter's compilation of JK's selected letters, she comments that
> is was as a
material witness that he was arrested.
> Leslie:)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:09:16 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"Levi's Question"@cruzio.com
>
> I think I
can clear this confusion up -- when Gerry and I referred
> to
"legal reasons" in our posts we were not talking in terms of
> whether an
act was illegal or not, but whether an act would
> be legally
unwise or not -- specifically, that by letting me
> publish
Jan's excerpt Gerry for free would be exposing himself to
> criticism
that he was being lax with Jan's estate, which could be
> used against
him by others claiming rights to the estate.
On reading a
subsequent post Gery got that explanation across to me
also. Still the
fact remains that he is condemning his opponents who
also use their
judgment as to what to do with what is theirs to do with.
I could say that
this is only an excuse. That in fact he would have
followed the
wishes that Jan epxressed, and especially since he would
not have
profitted from carrying out her clearly stated wishes for the
public good, it
is not likely that such action would provide cause in a
court to remove
him. But he chose the action that was denying the public
access, and kept
the material under his private control. That is what he
accuses his
opponents of doing. These were not legal considerations,
they were
judgment calls, justifying his preferences.
This is the only
place where I see reason not to get carried away with
his self
righteousness. I see much to admire in him as a writer, as a
devoted advocate,
but I am not sure he is not carrying his flag a bit
too high, hitting
others over their heads with it.
That does not
excuse the uglier actions of the legal heirs, and in my
mind it is not
unlikely that they might have forged the will. Luckily
for me I do not
have to make consequential decisions with the limited
knowledge that I
have. Neither do I see excuses for Jack Kerouac's
treatment of Jan,
some of his friends, including Neal in San Quentin or
later when he
should have been forthcoming with some financial
assistance for
one example.The five dollars to Neal who used his meagwer
resources to
travel to New York to see him, was really an insult.
So, if we look at
the lives of heroic figures in their spheres of
action, we find
quite a bit of dirt clinging to theit feet on other
walks on other
roads. Whatever it is that we think, or Gerry wants
everybody to
think, Jack could have very easily left his literary
properties to
public egencies, if that is what he wanted to do with it.
Like Jan wanted
to do. But he didn't.
>
> I hope we
can put aside that whole side-issue, anyway.
As for the
> deeper
issues, I remain agnostic.
>
It is the deeper
issues only that I am very much interested in. Gery has
been a big help,
even if I am not convinced that his motives are pure
while his
opponents are evil.
I am quite
willing to leave things alone.
BTW Levi, you are
reminding me that I meant to write to you. I wanted to
tell you how
highly John Cassady speaks of you. I didn't bring your name
up to him. In
telling me how he felt about things that are going on, he
made it a point
to tell me with great enthusiasm, how highly he thinks
of you. I am
repeating myself. You might also be interested to hear that
his son looked
very, very well. He told me that he feels that his
responsibility to
the legacy of his grandpa is "just awesome". John is
a very good
father, and it is just very gratifying that it is turning
out that way.
Hopefully Kathy will also realize one day that her dad did
not waste his
life away. That is she will find it in her heart to get
over her anger
and frustration at his absence when she needed him. She
was in a more
vulnerable age and experienced strong resentments from her
mom also in a
more impressionable time in her life. I hope she will
heal.
Best
Dito
Leon
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>
-----------------------------------------------------
> .-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:27:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Comments: To:
James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To: <336FEC43.4891@pacbell.net>
hey gang
according to _the
holy goof: a biography of neal cassady_ p.119:
"having finished _cuckoo's nest_
in the spring of 1961, kesey
journeyed to
oregon to help his brother start a creamery. he returned to
palo alto in the
summer of 1962, just months after his novel had been
published to
handsome praise just about everywhere. pulling up the old
cottage on penny
lane, he and faye descried an antic figure on thier font
lawn - a man with
an athletic build, maybe in his late thrirties, dressed
in a t-shirt and
chinos and bobbing up and down as if he were a boxer,
batting great
blue flirtatious eyes and jabbering, jabbering. "yes, yes,
yes, why hello
chief..."
the meeting was clearing ordained.kesey
had dreamed cassady first,
had imagined him
into being - with the usual distortions of dreamwork of
course - asrandle
patrick mcmurphy. neal had discovered that book and felt
summoned by its
author."
well, i guess
that settles it then, right?
yrs
derek
On Tue, 6 May
1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
> Dean,
>
> I am not
sure exactly when Cassidy first started coming around Kesey but
> it was
during the period that Kesey was living at Perry Lane near
> Stanford,
working at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park and writing the book.
> Whether
Cuckoo was already a work in progress of not, I don't know, but
> it is hard
not to see at least some Cassidy in Randle tho I think Randle
> is more a
creation of Kesey's using bits from Neal than the Cassidy
> characters
Kerouac did.
> J Stauffer
>
> Dean M.
Palmer wrote: . .
> >
> > Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
> > seems
like it....
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:30:57 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
I yield to both
of you gentleman. Superior access to more recent
secondary
sources. Randle is apparently only a
forshadowing of the real
fastestmanalive.
J Stauffer
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:34:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Visions of Cody
I just wanted to
tell you all how much i highly recommend this book!
It took me a
while to get through some of the parts and i did -GASP- even
skip some of the
conversation parts [sorry, Jack], and Tim Hunt's
_Kerouac's
Crooked Road_ helped me immensely.
The more i loook
over this book and read it, the more it becomes my
favorite Kerouac
novel. I dont think i would recommend it
to newcomers to
Kerouac though.
so anyone want to
start a conversation on this novel?
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:18:48 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
One@cruzio.com, Two@cruzio.com, Three@cruzio.com,
Four@cruzio.com, Flew@cruzio.com,
OVER@cruzio.com, the@cruzio.com,
nest@cruzio.com
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> hey gang
> according to
_the holy goof: a biography of neal cassady_ p.119:
> "having finished _cuckoo's nest_
in the spring of 1961, kesey
> journeyed to
oregon to help his brother start a creamery. he returned to
> palo alto in
the summer of 1962, just months after his novel had been
> published to
handsome praise just about everywhere. pulling up the old
> cottage on
penny lane, he and faye descried an antic figure on thier font
> lawn - a man
with an athletic build, maybe in his late thrirties, dressed
> in a t-shirt
and chinos and bobbing up and down as if he were a boxer,
> batting
great blue flirtatious eyes and jabbering, jabbering. "yes, yes,
> yes, why
hello chief..."
> the meeting was clearing
ordained.kesey had dreamed cassady first,
> had imagined
him into being - with the usual distortions of dreamwork of
> course -
asrandle patrick mcmurphy. neal had discovered that book and felt
> summoned by
its author."
>
> well, i
guess that settles it then, right?
> yrs
> derek
>
> On Tue, 6
May 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
> >
> > Dean,
> >
> > I am
not sure exactly when Cassidy first started coming around Kesey but
> > it was
during the period that Kesey was living at Perry Lane near
> >
Stanford, working at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park and writing the book.
> > Whether
Cuckoo was already a work in progress of not, I don't know, but
> > it is
hard not to see at least some Cassidy in Randle tho I think Randle
> > is more
a creation of Kesey's using bits from Neal than the Cassidy
> >
characters Kerouac did.
> > J
Stauffer
> >
> > Dean M.
Palmer wrote: . .
> > >
> >
> Did Kessey know Cassady at the
time? Was Randle based on Cassady? It
> > >
seems like it....
> >
> .-
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> hey gang
> according to
_the holy goof: a biography of neal cassady_ p.119:
> "having finished _cuckoo's nest_
in the spring of 1961, kesey
> journeyed to
oregon to help his brother start a creamery. he returned to
> palo alto in
the summer of 1962, just months after his novel had been
> published to
handsome praise just about everywhere. pulling up the old
> cottage on
penny lane, he and faye descried an antic figure on thier font
> lawn - a man
with an athletic build, maybe in his late thrirties, dressed
> in a t-shirt
and chinos and bobbing up and down as if he were a boxer,
> batting
great blue flirtatious eyes and jabbering, jabbering. "yes, yes,
> yes, why
hello chief..."
> the meeting was clearing
ordained.kesey had dreamed cassady first,
> had imagined
him into being - with the usual distortions of dreamwork of
> course -
asrandle patrick mcmurphy. neal had discovered that book and felt
> summoned by
its author."
>
> well, i
guess that settles it then, right?
> yrs
> derek
>
Checking my
memory score card here:
Memory cleared as
far as Neal Not thinking he was a model for anyone in
the book. I am
beginning furthermore to recall being told that the model
for Murphy was a
real live patient, salesman possibly, am not sure if it
was Kesey or Neal
who told me about that, but one of them definitely did
tell me about
that patient.
A bit more
searching scholarship is indicated for me about the exact
dates here.
My memory is very
vivid of the time Neal brought me the copy of the book
- just out. No
doubts about that.
No doubts about
having driven Neal to Anne's place in Palo Alto and
Perry Lane before
that.
No doubts about
the story of writing in the Veterans' hospital under
acid.
So wait a minute.
Does the biographer claim that Kesey wrote the book
before living in
Palo Alto and working in the VA hospital? That is not
settled. More
like unsettling. My memories are playing some huge tricks
on me then. It
has never been that masterful in deceiving me.
I also
had conversations
with the nurse who thought she was the model for nurse
Ratchett. She was
married to a psychiatrist, Dr. Giese, and she also
told me numerous
times about Kesey' writing while at work at the
hospital. I
remember
vaguely a
conversation about her with Kesey. What gives here. If the
biographer claims
that Kesey finished the book before working at the
Palo Alto
Veterans' Hospital, then I would like to check his sources.
Leon
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 05:36:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Kesey/Cassady
Leon,
James Stauffer
has already cautioned us about secondary sources, but the way
Jay Stevens in
Storming Heaven dates these events is that Kesey moves to
Perry Lane in the fall of 1958 and in mid-summer 1960 he
starts working at
the Veterans
Hosp. He starts writing Cuckoo's Nest
around September 1960
and finishes it
in June 1961. The book is published in
Feb. 1962 and he
meets Cassady
during the summer of 1962.
However, I note
that Kesey has already started hanging out in North Beach by
1960 so it's
possible he's heard about Cassady, he certainly was hip to the
beats. (Stevens p.224-225).
I can't find my
copy of Plummer's Holy Goof to check his chronology, (I
think it's out on
a date with Yardley's Ring Lardner biography which I'm
also trying to
find right now. Personally I don't think
those two should be
dating).
But Leon, please
keep probing and posting the memory.
Regards,
Andrew Lampert
cosmic@clark.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 04:40:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.94.970507002836.29050A-100000@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu>
On Wed, 7 May
1997, Matthew S Sackmann wrote:
> I just
wanted to tell you all how much i highly recommend this book!
>
> The more i
loook over this book and read it, the more it becomes my
> favorite
Kerouac novel. I dont think i would
recommend it to newcomers to
> Kerouac
though.
>
> so anyone
want to start a conversation on this novel?
I'm game. It is
my favorite Kerouac as well! I think the first 100 pages
or so are his
finest writing. An intense lyricism that just keeps going
and going, you
can't believe that he can possibly keep it up for another
sentence and yet
he does, page after page.
There's an almost
mythological feel to it; even, and especially,
regarding
ordinary things. I'll never be able to look at a red brick wall
again the same
way.
His prose in this
book almost makes me want to write it out on a music
staff complete
with indications of tempo and dynamics:
"...in any case it was the great serious
American poolhall night {now
gradually slower and quieter} and Cody
arrived on the scene bearing
his original and sepulchral mind with him
{now gradually faster and
louder} to make the poolhall the
headquarters of the vast excitement
of the early Denver days of his life {now
suddenly quieter and slower}
becoming after awhile, a permanent musing
figure before the green
velvet of table number one...." (and so
on--p.49)
or long
descneding lines like:
hail the poor whiteface cows
drowsing in their evening stockyard
fattening meadows
with its call of faroff trains
and almost Iowa-like
valley
green
softness
(p.353)
Some of the
transcribed conversations are sometimes hard to get thru, but
it's an
interesting device; it keeps reappearing later in the book and
you wonder if the
tape ever stopped rolling.....
*******
Attenti al
filosofo!
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Time is the
purest and cheapest form of doom.
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 05:43:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bahman Eslamboly
<lawguru@LAWGURU.COM>
Subject: Use our free 450+ Mailing List
Subscription Manager
I have added
another valuable and useful FREE tool to our LawGuru.com
(http://www.lawguru.com/) site. Our new
listTool - Mailing List Subscription
Manager at
http://www.lawguru.com/subscribe/listtool.html allows you to easily
subscribe, unsubscribe and send commands to
over 450+ mailing lists (including
this mailing list) in categories such as
computers, news, business, law, humor,
sports, art, literature, music and more. You
no longer have to remember what
command to send to which obscure email address
to subscribe to or unsubscribe
from a mailing list. After selecting the
category, just enter your email
address, select from the over 450+ different
mailing lists available, pick the
command, press the "Send" button and
our server will do the rest. Best of all
it is free. Let me know what you think or if
you want to suggest a new mailing
list to add.
Bahman Eslamboly
Los Angeles,
California
Visit LawGuru.com
-
Search 200+ legal
search engines for free
Plus Legal
Questions, Answers and Research
Web Page:
http://www.lawguru.com
e-mail: lawtalk@lawguru.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:04:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
VOC is the purest
formof American prose/poetry since Whitman. Kerouac's
prose is suffused
with sunset imagery and darkness and dust. Notebook
jottings made into
novel form? This book is definetley his best...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:00:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
At 08:14 PM
5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Good
question, Bill. I always thought he was
held as "a material witness."
Ma
>ybe I got it
from the newspaper clips. If Gerry,
doesn't have an answer I'll b
>e glad to do
some digging.
I believe in
_VOD_ K states it was for being an "a material
witness" due
to the fact he was an "accessory after the fact."
Not sure how much
poetic license is involved in the book
account?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:02:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Re: For Michael Buchenroth
In-Reply-To:
<970501201336_1456326214@emout07.mail.aol.com>
On Thu, 1 May
1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
I feel honored to
have the opportunity to share with a truly great
American writer
and poet! I have your book, "Last of the Mocassins"
(LOM-using your
acronym) and in fact I just finished reading it for the
2nd time. I
bought it from WaterRow earlier this spring. AND after
reading your
autobiography, seeing "Betty's" photo, etc., etc., LOM read
so much more
emotionally charged like those electrons in the EPR paradox!
As I read LOM
-inside my brain- I had emotional electrons beat-lining
faster than light
in opposite directions from each other rapping and
tapping up
against both sides of my skull and according to Eistein that
ain't supposed ta
happen! Who knows exactly what it made me feel like!
But most
certainly I "felt" your book! LOM remains such an emotionally
charged, revved
up account of incredibly interesting, truly American
experiences!
-such a rich, historical, powerful read! Damn!
Thanks Charley!
> COWS
>
> Look at cow
faces
> cattlemen
cruising the stockyards
> the thing is
> cows don't
care
> cows are
queer
> I saw a cow
on muscle beach
>
> I once found
a cow magazine
> with a cover
of cows black and white
> hooked up to
iron milkers
>
> Cow poetry
in it
>
> If you drink
milk before going
> to bed
you'll wake up with a
> bovine faced
hangover
>
> Huncke stole
a cow
> took it to
the city
> on his back
>
> Charles
Plymell:
> Michael is
building a website for me. Thank you. Nice birthday present.
>
http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
>
Michael L.
Buchenroth
mike@buchenroth.com
www.buchenroth.com
To view
Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
go to
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:23:26 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Lawrence Ferlinghetti punctuation.
Michael scrive:
>I heard there
was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR.
be beat! buon
giorno amici beats, per favore
someone can find
ONE punctuation in the
works poetry
written by Lawrence Ferlinghetti?
i searchin' for
but my effort was frustrated,
if Jack Kerouac
wrote On The Road w/out punct
(on a computer
paper, by hand, of course) there's
another beat who
negleted the punct &
he is LAWRENCE
FERLIGHETTI,
rinaldo.
* coro: un, due,
tre! tutti giu' per terra! *
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:37:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Lisa Bralts <Wordydiva@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In a message
dated 97-05-07 02:12:47 EDT, you write:
<< so
anyone want to start a conversation on this novel? >>
It's off
topic, but what the hell -- I named my son
Cody (he's 5 now) for
that book. I love
it, It's my absolute fave. A few years ago I lent (stupid!
I rue the day!!)
out a bunch of Kerouac books/bios, VOC being one of them, to
the boyfriend of
a co-worker... they broke up and he moved to England. I have
a feeling I'll
find those books in a thrift shop someday...
... there's a
part in that book where he describes Neal/Cody as an
adolescent/kid...
the way he described the sweater and his unkemptness and
the way he was
holding a children's toy (accordion?) that he found by the
side of the
road... the imagery packed an enormous wallop at the time (I was
in college).
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:42:27 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Lawrence Ferlinghetti punctuation.
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> Michael
scrive:
> >I heard
there was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR.
>
> be beat!
buon giorno amici beats, per favore
> someone can
find ONE punctuation in the
> works poetry
written by Lawrence Ferlinghetti?
>
> i searchin'
for but my effort was frustrated,
>
> if Jack
Kerouac wrote On The Road w/out punct
> (on a
computer paper, by hand, of course) there's
> another beat
who negleted the punct &
> he is
LAWRENCE FERLIGHETTI,
>
> rinaldo.
>
> * coro: un,
due, tre! tutti giu' per terra! *
all i have of LF
is the Starting Out SF one. i can't find
it handy to
see if it had
punc or not. i hope i didn't lose it.
i enjoyed
learning more about Kesey yesterday.
Hope to learn some more
about Visions of
Cody today as previous posts suggested.
Right now I'm reading
the Desolation Angels. Curious in the
First Part
why ain't there a
#99 ? I imagine that the experts have a
story or two
to explain it.
Also i'm eager to
learn more about Lawrence Ferlinghetti's connections
in this whole
thing Beat. i've heard a few here and
there but the
stories of the
folks that were there and done that are always most
intriguing.
I'm beginning to
get a map in the brain that God gave me of some of the
connections. I was a relative virgin to this whole stuff
when i came
on, i'd only read
On The Road and a bunch of WSB kind of stuff and a bit
of Ginsberg (but
my mind had not been on the poems there - rather the
poetess reading
AG to moi). My favorite character in OTR
was Old Bull
Lee and perhaps
that is what directed me towards more of him.
but i
found much of his
writing impossible to read in conventional manners.
well, i guess
that is not really a very coherent post.
incoherence
happens to the
worst of us.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:07:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <337010B8.1ABB@cruzio.com> from
"Leon Tabory" at May 6,
97 10:18:48 pm
Leon wrote:
> on me then.
It has never been that masterful in deceiving me. I also
> had
conversations with the nurse who thought she was the model for nurse
> Ratchett.
She was married to a psychiatrist, Dr. Giese, and she also
Now *this* sounds
like an interesting story!!! Can you
tell it?
About this novel
-- to me this is a rare example ("Deliverance"
also comes to
mind) of a great book that was also turned into a great
movie. As a kid I saw the movie -- later when I read
the book I was at
first
disappointed that it didn't seem to have as much psychological
depth and sharp
characterization as the movie -- but then the book
went so much
further with prose experimentation and symbolism
(Jesus, etc.)
that I finally decided both the film and the book
were classics in
their own ways.
I also remember
that around the time the film came out there
was a huge and
nasty public battle between Kesey and the
filmmakers that
reminds me of our present situation.
Anybody
else remember
when Kesey vs. Forman raged? I remember
one great
quote of Kesey's
about the filmmakers -- "I know why they they
left the Combine
out of the movie -- they are the Combine."
But since it was
clearly a great movie, I remember the fight
leaving the world
at large simply confused. Definitely
sounds familiar!
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:00:12 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
Kesey/Cassady@cruzio.com
Cosmic Baseball
Association wrote:
>
Thank you Andrew
for shedding some light upon these vaguely visible
shadows in the
folds of old memories. The chronology sounds quite
plausible. I
guess memory is not that tricky. It is quite possible that
a book published
several months earlier was considered "just out" even
"by the
fastest man on earth". I guess we may all be correct here.
Just because I
didn't know about the book at first, doesn't mean it had
not been
published yet. Neal first heard of Kesey from his close friend
Bradley who was a
student at Stanford at the time, and editor of a
student poetry
publication there. He met Bradley when he started to
visit Anne Marie
weekends in her Palo Alto apartment. Bradley would have
been likely to
know about Kesey's book publication and writing. What I
remember most
vividly are Bradley's enthusiasm about Kesey's Perry Lane
parties. I do
recall that Neal's first interest in Kesey was about
crashing those
parties. He was also amazed at the uncanny replication of
the earlier
Columbia literary student pioneering lifestyle innovations
experience; the
progression from Marijuana to LSD, the close knit
friendships, and
most of all the parties near to Anne Marie's weekend
hideaway pad.
Well maybe not quite hideaway. When I see Anne I will ask
her what she can
add here.
Bits and pieces
of the legendary stories of Neal could have been grafted
upon RPM with or without conscious knoledge by Kesey,
even if he didn't
know him yet at
the time face to face.
Leon
Cosmic Baseball
Association wrote:
> Leon,
>
> James
Stauffer has already cautioned us about secondary sources, but the way
> Jay Stevens
in Storming Heaven dates these events is that Kesey moves to
> Perry
Lane in the fall of 1958 and in
mid-summer 1960 he starts working at
> the Veterans
Hosp. He starts writing Cuckoo's Nest
around September 1960
> and finishes
it in June 1961. The book is published
in Feb. 1962 and he
> meets
Cassady during the summer of 1962.
>
> However, I
note that Kesey has already started hanging out in North Beach by
> 1960 so it's
possible he's heard about Cassady, he certainly was hip to the
> beats. (Stevens p.224-225).
>
> I can't find
my copy of Plummer's Holy Goof to check his chronology, (I
> think it's
out on a date with Yardley's Ring Lardner biography which I'm
> also trying
to find right now. Personally I don't
think those two should be
> dating).
>
> But Leon,
please keep probing and posting the memory.
>
> Regards,
> Andrew
Lampert
> cosmic@clark.net
> .-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:20:42 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: kesey & flicks
In-Reply-To:
<199705071407.HAA27441@netcom.netcom.com>
levi & co
havent heard
anything about the kesey forman battle over cockoos nest
movie. are the
letters published? where would i look?
i had thought
that kesey was happy with the movie (learn something
everyday i
suppose)
yrs
derek
(ps one more good
book also good movie? how 'bout M*A*S*H*?)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:23:56 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
I will see Kesey
this friday and saturday as he waddles the bus through Ohio. I
will try and ask
him about Cassady and Randall Patrick M. Hold tight. I'm sure
Neal was some
influence on that charcter.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:28:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
>From The
Kerouac Quarterly:
tentative release
date for a new "definitive" Kerouac bio:
The Beat Of Life
by Ellis Amburn
It may be
released this Fall...Mr. Amburn informs me that the length is
approx. 150,000
words long and is exhaustive. New information, fresh
documents, and
Amburn's experience as being Jack's editor in the 1960's
should lead to a
great book!
Vol. 1, No. 2 of The Kerouac Quarterly
will be available
shortly...Thanks,
Paul....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:44:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: AARON CHIDAKEL/JMC2000
<chidake1@JEFLIN.TJU.EDU>
Subject: a question for you
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970507152800.0068f87c@pop.pipeline.com>
I'm relatively
new to this list and although I have yet to add anything
to the
circulating letters, I enjoy going through the seemingly endless
mail which piles
in my folder. It seems as though between
Gerry,
Charlie, et. al.,
there are a decent number of folks here on-line who are
quite familiar
with the "beats" on a personal as well as professional
level.
I'm wondering if
some of the living "beat" writers, such as Ferlinghetti,
Kesey, etc. know
about this list. If so, why do they not
drop us a line
once in a while?
Seems like it would be an excellent opportunity for us to
hear about some
of this stuff first-hand, and for them to stay active in
the beat literary
discussion circuit.
Curious.
-AC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:55:37 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Old Bull Gaines
One of the things
that Kerouac says Old Bull used to lecture about is
Mallarme'. Is there anywhere that Burroughs has written
about Mallarme'
that someone
could direct me towards?
A french prof at
Augustana read my poem Yahtzee and said it was
something french
coup de das or somesuch. ... mentioned Mallarme'.
perhaps the
lectures were received unconsciously already, but i'd be
intrigued to see
anything in print.
thanks,
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:12:07 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: beat-italiano (cut-up)
be beat!
Chetro & Co.
"Burroughs
individuo' la tecnica del cut-up vedendo
lavorare l'amico
pittore Gysin. questa tecnica
consiste nel
prendere dei brani di prosa, tagliarli
e rimontarli in
maniera casuale.
Questi locali su
trovavano nel cuore della citta',
erano le cantine
e dei seminterrati definiti dalla
stampa cave
esistenzialiste, credo pero' che solo
alcuni che le
frequentavano conoscevano Sartre.
In queste sale
non si trovavano piu' le orchestre
classiche del
liscio, ma dei complessi che suonavano
repertorio jazz.
Guardavano con
molta piu' attenzione, pero', alla
beat generation
americana. il beat negli Usa era
un movimento
letterario colto, segnato dalla rivolta
dello stile. La
beat generation era un movimento
letterario urbano
che attraverso la poesia aveva
completamente
abbattuto il confine tra la parola
scritta e parola
cantata. Nelle loro metriche i poeti
di questo
movimento creavano un'intensa tensione
tipica del bebop.
rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:32:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
Timothy,
Even though you
corrected yourself on Bill Gargen's comment regarding The
Kerouac Estate
Battle versus the Viet Nam War, I'm kinda glad it slipped
through.
I was sitting
outdoors with a laptop when I read:
>(Is
Shakespeare seriously comparing the thousands of square miles of the
earth to
>the few
meters that is in a theatre's stage?)
At that point I
hooted out loud and a dozen people and a few ducks turned to
see what I was
laughing at.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:53:56 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
In-Reply-To: <199705070155.SAA19670@hsc.usc.edu>
>remember all
the world is a stage.
>
>(is
Shakespeare seriously comparing the thousands of square miles of the
>earth to the
few meters that is in a theater's stage?)
Yeah! And not only that, on those few meters we are
all walking shadows
with just a brief
hour to strut our stuff, which is full of sound and fury,
signifying
nothing. (Sounds like Electronic-mail,
which is just a few
centimeters in
lot.) But since when has seeriousness
ever stood in the way
of a Holy
Goof? It didn't stand in Shakespeare's
way, who also saw life as
a midsummer
night's dream (Is Bottom Beat? Or just a
jackass? After all,
he talked as if
he had been to a great feast of languages and had come home
just with the
scraps.), not to mention a few thousand other things, all of
them serious,
poets being like madmen lunatics and lovers, all compact.
Which surely
includes Beats and their Barristers.
Was the question
serious or just unholy goofery? (Or am I
just one of
those sitting
ducks staring in the direction of Jerry Cimino's laughter?)
The older I get
the more serious metaphors become, I guess would be my
straight
answer. I am not convinced that metaphor
is merely another
version of the
virtual. I'm on no Shakespeare List, but
I couldn't tell
you the number of
times in the past few weeks I have thought all the world
was a
stage...all, sigifying monkeys or butterlifes or Aguirre: Wrath of
God. If I were a lawyer, I could use my personal defense
strategy to
justify Gerry
Nicosia's analogy between Beat Estate Wars and Vietnam War:
Hyperbole is
valid figure of speech. A form of
metaphor, if not the best.
Is this guy
serious? Hey, just a rhetorical
question. // John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:22:39 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
If I were a lawyer, I could use my personal
defense strategy to
>justify Gerry
Nicosia's analogy between Beat Estate Wars and Vietnam War:
>Hyperbole is
valid figure of speech. A form of
metaphor, if not the best.
>Is this guy
serious? Hey, just a rhetorical
question. // John M.
>
Seriously though
I think you could argue that litigation has taken the place
of combat for a
lot of people, at least in this 'developed' world. And I'll
bet the bodycount
from overstressed litigants isn't that
far removed from
those in military
conflicts. There are more suicides than murders, even in
the US. There
seems to be an unending urge for people to BEAT up on each
other, using
whatever the society allows them to use.
Nick
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:41:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 May 1997 04:40:43 -0500
from
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Yass! Yass!, right on target, Jeff.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:51:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
Thanks Phil: Mainly I want to find out whether it's fair
to say he was
"arrested"
or was it something different? He lost
his freedom for awhile in
jail, but I want
to be accurate.
Yours,
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:56:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
Bill:
Thanks for the
help, I'm not certain when I'm answering directly to a person
on this damn
computer and when I'm answering to all 200 list members, don't
want to repeat
time and again. My main concern is
whether it's fair to say
he was
"arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as
a
material
witness" or was he "held" as a material witness. I know that it
really amounts to
the same thing but I want to be accurate (thanks to years
with Allen, it
pays to get it right the first time).
See you soon,
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:18:59 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Emilio Vedova, ventian tracks.
be beat!
map of musei in
italy:
http://www.museionline.it/english/index.htm
http://www.museionline.it/english/geo/index.htm
address of
venetian artists:
http://www.art-diary.com/Art-Diary-Internet/ITALY/venezia.html
Emilio
Vedova "home-page":
http://csi2000.csi.it/~laval/rivoli/autori/vedova.html
Emilio Vedova at
Biennale as member of jury
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/biennale/biennale/biennale.html
rinaldo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:00:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
At 04:56 PM
5/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Bill:
>Thanks for
the help, I'm not certain when I'm answering directly to a person
>on this damn
computer and when I'm answering to all 200 list members, don't
>want to
repeat time and again. My main concern
is whether it's fair to say
>he was
"arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as
a
>material
witness" or was he "held" as a material witness. I know that it
>really
amounts to the same thing but I want to be accurate (thanks to years
>with Allen,
it pays to get it right the first time).
>See you soon,
>Bill Morgan
>
>He was
definitely arrested because there was a bail set and posted by Edie
Parker. I believe
he was arrested as a material witness originally because
he supposedly had
knowledge of the crime. Then they must have "spilled the
beans" and
told about Jack helping to get rid of the knife by putting it
down the sewer.
If Lucien had been charged with first degree murder Jack
would have been
tried as an accessory after the fact because he helped him
get rid of the
knife. Can anyone elaborate further? Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:10:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ann Charters Interview
I have been told
by a number of people to do my own research on the Estate
Battle. Part of my doing that is asking questions and
advice from people on
this List. One of the things I was told I should become
familiar with is the
Ann Charters
Interview in the Beat Scene.
I have asked
TWICE in the last four days if someone would post a summary of
that
Interview. So far the only person who
has referenced that article was
Gerry Nicosia
himself, quoting a portion that substantiated his position.
I can only assume
from this lack of response that there is nothing of
consequence in
this article that is opposed to Gerry's position.
I am still
waiting if that is not the case.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:12:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Cast of Characters
In my ignorance I
guess I was under the mistaken impression that John Sampas
was one of
Stella's brothers, a guy pehaps in his 60-70's.
Now, after
reading a recent
post it appears he is a nephew of Stella, I'm assuming
somebody in his
30's-50's. Could someone clarify,
please?
Also, who is Jim
Sampas? I saw on the Rykodisc he is
listed as the Producer
of the CD. How is he related to John?
Another
interesting thing I discovered while doing my research. Apparently
George Tobia,
John Sampas' lawyer, is also Hunter S. Thompson's lawyer.
Anybody know how that came about? On the Rykodisc it says he was present
when Hunter was
recording "Ode to Jack" at 5 in the morning! Christ, I hope
he wasn't on
billable time!
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:15:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jack's Intentions
Leon wrote,
>Whatever it
is that we think, or Gerry wants everybody to think, Jack could
have
>very easily
left his literary properties to public agencies, if that is what
he wanted
>to do with
it. Like Jan wanted to do. But he didn't.
Leon,
I must take issue
with this line of argument.
Your point is
well taken than Jack "could have" done something different than
he did and
obviously he didn't take the necessary safeguards. But you seem
to indicate the
disposition of his archives would not have mattered to him.
I reject that position.
>From what I
understand Kerouac kept scrupulous notes and records and had
everything
annotated and categorized. He apparently
talked about "someday"
when the historians
were going to look at his stuff. We all
know he
constantly wrote
about the "Duluoz Legend" which of course was the story of
his life from
beginning to end, everything documented, everything real.
Because Jack died
unexpectedly at a relatively young age he had not yet made
arrangements to
get everything into a University Libarary or whatever.
Indeed, most of his books were out of print
when he died so who would expect
anybody may have
even wanted his archive in 1969?
In addition,
let's not forget Jack was a dysfunctional alcoholic, possibly
incapable of
really planning those aspects of his life out to the detail
required.
To say he
wouldn't have cared because he didn't do these things does not
obviate his
intent or desire. I doubt this can have
any bearing on the legel
wrangling, but
I'm convinced Jack would not have wanted his stuff sold off
piecemeal.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:15:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: this sunday
i ain't had time to keep uptodate reading my
beat-l digests
so i don't know if this has been mentioned
yet.
channel 4 are showing a documentary this
sunday (may 11),
i can't remember the exact time (it may
actually be about 0:10
which would make it monday morning) but it's
about the life &
times of allen ginsberg.
those in the uk look out for it!
cheers all
joe
newcastle, uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:18:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Michael Buchenroth
In a message dated
97-05-07 15:49:49 EDT, you write:
<< On Thu,
1 May 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
I feel honored to have the opportunity to
share with a truly great
American writer and poet! I have your book,
"Last of the Mocassins"
(LOM-using your acronym) and in fact I just
finished reading it for the
2nd time. I bought it from WaterRow earlier
this spring. >>
Correction: I
didn't write the message, I was quoting it.
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:18:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: The
Big Lie
I was on an
airplane the other day thumbing through various magazines because
the battery in my
laptop was depleted (horrors!).
I was pleasantly
surprised when I came across (not literally) an article in
Self Magazine
that concerned itself with the repetition of a falsehood and
how something
when repeated often enough, even if it is not true, takes on
the air of being
true simply because it has been heard so many times.
The article had
to do with "False Memory Syndrome" and quoted a study that
was pubished in
Psychological Science where an experiment was done with 225
Kent State
students that showed how one false suggestion led subjects to
recall a
non-event about 35% of the time. When
the suggestion was repeated
the incidence of
the false memory increased. After three
mentions the
subjects reported
false memories on average of 55% of the time!
The
conclusion was
raising the notion again and again wore down the subject's
resistance to the
point where they believed what they were told.
Despite the fact
this article did not mention Adolph Hitler or Nazi's in
general this got
me to thinking about Gerry Nicosia's claims that certain
people have been
repeating "lies" over and over and over. Gerry's point, of
course, is that
he can not defend himself against unsubstantiated claims that
say he is only in
it for the money and glory etc. As I
recall, this has been
asserted a number
of times, but no one has offered so much as one iota of
evidence that it
is true. Gerry contends the assertion
alone hurts his
position, though,
as some people assume it must be true or other people
wouldn't be
saying it.
Now I don't like
to use the word "lie". I think
it is way too inflamatory.
I much prefer the word "discrepancy"
or some other euphemism. Calling your
opponent a
"liar" forces him/her into an intractible position. They often
feel they can't
back off on their claims at all or they'll be admitting
they're a
"liar".
I much prefer
language that can allow someone to adjust their position while
not losing
face. "Perhaps you mispoke" or
"Perhaps I didn't understand your
point" are
nice sanitary ways of saying "You don't know what the hell you're
talking
about" or "You're so full of shit your eyes are brown".
I'm putting
everybody on notice regarding this Estate debate: I'm going to
make it my
business to assure that anybody who makes an assertion gives at
least a plausible
explanation of why they're saying what they're saying.
This situation
with Jack's archives is just too important to get lost in
hyperbole so
there'll be no more free rides as far as I'm concerned. If you
make a claim
against someone you'd better be prepared to back it up.
Otherwise you're going to hear from me that I
think there is a "discrepancy"
in your argument.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:25:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a question for you
In a message
dated 97-05-07 16:28:18 EDT, you write:
<< It seems
as though between Gerry,
Charlie, et. al., there are a decent number of
folks here on-line who are
quite familiar with the "beats" on a
personal as well as professional
level. >>
Larry F. came
over to the flat one day with Ginsberg. I was urging LF to
publishl the
First Third and was asking Neal to read it to him. That was in
63. I had met
Neal in 62. I also urged LF to publish
Bukowski even though he
wasn't at that
time considered a beat at least by me. LF earlier had turned
down the
manuscript Naked Lunch for publication. At least that's what I
heard.
They may be
lurking or LF may be sending Rinaldo his poetry to cut up, who
knows. I'm sure
they have spies out.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:33:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Hey, Anstee, wait for the bell!
In-Reply-To:
<199705020406.VAA10779@germany.it.earthlink.net>
RA,
Who will benefit
WHEN the Kerouac collections are being cared for in a
library that has
a preservation and conservation lab?
Everyone who has
enjoyed reading
the Beats, everyone who is a student, teacher, scholar of
Beat Lit.
It is apparent
that people are slowly coming to the realization that these
collections must
be preserved. The collections are national treasures. JK
is a national
treasure, as is Jan.
Some people may
believe that ownership, regardless of how that ownership
was established,
is all that is necesary to wheel and deal with items from
the collection.
This kind of profitering is wrong. That's why is is
important that
collectors understand that any items
that are sold, any
items are
purchased, are going to come back and haunt the people involved.
Private
collections of material by authors such as JK by people with no
immediate
connection to JK--collections made posible simply because of
wealth is the
personification of greed.
It's really no
different that tearing pages out of library books. Everyone,
except the person
with the torn-out page, is the loser.
A few years ago,
when I was involved with designing some posters for
libraries--posters
about mutilating books--I was contacted by a university
and asked what I
felt a just penalty would be for a student caught tearing
pages out oaf a
books at the university library. I told them the student
should be
expelled. Even if it was a first offender they asked Absolutely
I replied.
jo grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:44:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
Bill Gargan:
Could you explain
why sometimes the response to a message arrives before the
message? For instance your Visions of Cody response <<Yass! Yass!, right
on target,
Jeff.>> seems to have appeared before whatever Jeff has said.
BTW Visions of
Cody is one my favorites when I read it more than 30 years
ago.
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:58:26 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: dawn m zarubnicky
<fedex@UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: New York, NY
In-Reply-To:
<970506091658_777075611@emout18.mail.aol.com>
On Tue, 6 May
1997, William Morgan wrote:
> Dear Gerry:
> Hoping you
won't mind a non-Sampas question. I'm
putting together a walking
> tour of
Kerouac's New York and wanted to include a statement concerning
Bill...can you
give us some more info on the tour..
With what organization?
I used to take
walking tours of the city (non-beat related) when I lived
in New York
through the New School...What are areas are you planning on
including....
Speaking of NY
and somewhat beat related...Since my last visit in
January, I've
been thinking a lot about the Times Square gentrification/
renovation
project. I realize that financially this
is a good thing for
NYC and the
residents of the area, but part of me mourns the loss of a
New York
institution and is saddened that the area will take on a 57th
street
appearance...guess this is just the part of me that is resistant
to change and
feels yet another unique characteristic of New York
will be lost
forever....
Can anyone
recommend a book that chronicals the history of Times Square
through
photos? same with East Village?? or perhaps a stellar book on
the general
History of New York???
Thanks..Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:45:56 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: this sunday
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 May 1997 18:15:24 EDT from
<100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Please let us
know more about this film if you see it.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:11:12 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
William Morgan
wrote: . .
My main concern is whether it's fair to say
> he was
"arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as
a
> material
witness" or was he "held" as a material witness.
> Bill Morgan
And I understand
from courtesy of a backchannel post that Jan Kerouac
sold the arrest
warrant--so maybe we will never know.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:20:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.PMDF.3.91.970507041019.540765679A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
YES!
and there are some
sentences in the book that are just so beautiful and SO
true.
"Everything
belongs to me because I'm poor."
sounds very
reminiscent of Janis Joplin's
"Freedoms just another name for
nothing left to lose."
and Bob Dylan's
"When you aint got nothing, you've
got nothing to lose."
then there's
lines like:
"Whenever I realize that I'm going
to die, I no longer can
understand the
meaning of life" (373)
"All the
Indians along the road wanted something from us. We wouldn't be
on the road if we
had it." (380)
"I can see
the hand of God. The future's in
Fellaheen. At Actopan this
Biblical plateau
begins--it's reached by the mountains of faith only. I
know that I will
someday live in a land like this--I did long ago." (380)
Dman, i could
quote three sentences on from every single page of this
fricking book.
And i dont even
think any comments of mine regarding the book would be
worthy, i would
much prefer just quoting Jack himself in all his Beauty.
"the dew is
on the road again and as forever. . . I'm a fool, the new day
rises on the
world and on my foolish life: I'm a fool, I loved the blue
dawnsover
racetracks and made a bet Ioway was sweet like its name, my
heart went out to
the lonely sounds in the misty springtime night of wild
sweet America in
her powers, the wetness on the wire fence bugles me to
belief, I stood
on sandpiles with an open soul, I not only accept lost
forever, I am
made of loss--I am made of Cody, too..."
And then the
final lines, even putting them down here would not so them
justice.
the book is just
a wonderful show of how imaginattion and reality interact
to create a
Reality more real than the "real world."
i'll leave my
comments at that...but maybe more later...
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:38:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
While I'm making
coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to
consciousness
and for the first time I see the "pome" part of it like an
apple, or a poem
(as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's
"ray"
instead, all the
better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous
fast-moving fish.
Cody then recalls
Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary
showman,
or the code that
is the matrix of manifestation.
Jul
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:33:59 -500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: pranksters
Reuter's take on
Speed 2...glad I missed it after all that. Was
anyone there?>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Still Merry,
Kesey's pranksters now tour by air
>
> From:
C-reuters@clari.net (Reuter / Andrew Stern)
> Date: Wed, 7
May 1997 18:11:25 PDT
>
Organization: Copyright 1997 by Reuters
> Newsgroups:
clari.local.illinois.chicago, clari.living.top,
>
clari.living.books
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> CHICAGO (Reuter) - Author and aging
provocateur Ken Kesey
> sipped
grapefruit juice and signed books for tie-dyed young
> readers
Wednesday, many of whom were not born when Kesey's Merry
> Pranksters
delivered an ``acid test'' to America.
> As Bob Dylan's lyric ``everybody must
get stoned'' wailed
> from
speakers aboard the latest incarnation of Kesey's famous,
> multicolored
``Further'' bus, other Pranksters signed autographs
> and sold
stickers for $1 apiece.
> ``Let me tell you a Timothy Leary
story,'' the white-haired,
> 61-year-old
Kesey told those lined up clutching their dog-eared
> copies of
Kesey's masterpiece, ``One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
> Nest.''
> But instead of a tale of mad partying
from the drug-laced
> 1960s, Kesey
recalled his death-bed conversation with the former
> Harvard professor
and devotee of hallucinogenic drugs.
> ``I told him, 'Let's meet somewhere
on Halloween.' Leary
> said, 'I'll
meet you at Ginsberg's grave.' Now that's what I
> mean -- a
sense of humor right to the end,'' Kesey said of
> Leary, who
died last year.
> Staying with the death-bed theme,
Kesey recalled with a
> chuckle the
late Beat generation poet Allen Ginsberg's last
> words:
``Too-do-loo.''
> Kesey, 61, and his band flew in by
airplane from recent
> bookstore
appearances in San Francisco, not far from his
> farmhouse in
Pleasant Hill, Oregon, where the original
> Pranksters'
bus sits gathering rust. The ``new'' bus, a 1947
> model, was
not fit for the long journey and was brought in by
> flatbed
truck.
> The group was scheduled to arrive May 10 at
Cleveland's Rock
> and Roll
Hall of Fame, which will hold an exhibition devoted to
> the mid-60s
era of psychedelic music, illustrated by the book
> Kesey was
signing, ``I Want To Take You Higher: The Psychedelic
> Era
1965-1969.''
> Arriving with Kesey aboard the
psychedelic bus were a few
> veterans of
that earlier 1964 tour whose cross-country antics
> were
chronicled in Tom Wolfe's masterpiece of ``new
>
journalism,'' ``The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.'' The group
> spiked
drinks with the drug LSD, painted gas stations, and
> recorded the
crazy episodes.
> Kesey has been quoted as saying he
now takes LSD only once a
> year, on
Easter, to remain grounded.
> Among the Pranksters on this latest
``Grandfurther'' tour
> was Carolyn
``Mountain Girl'' Garcia, an ex-wife of the late
> Grateful
Dead bandleader Jerry Garcia, to whom the assembled
> throng sang
``Happy Birthday'' before the now-grayed Garcia
> cheerfully
told them to ``shut up.''
> Missing from Wednesday's scripted
book-signing were many of
> the original
Pranksters, including the wild man bus driver Neal
> Cassady who
played prominent roles in Wolfe's book and in Jack
> Kerouac's
earlier gem, ``On the Road.''
> ``He (Wolfe) had all the notes and
all our tapes, so it was
> accurate.
But it was an East Coast take on the West Coast, and
> the East
Coast is always 30 years behind,'' Kesey said.
> Asked if they had pulled any pranks
on this tour, Bill
> Burwell, a
Kesey neighbor who raises native plants (not
> marijuana)
and sells them to the federal government, could not
> recall any
recent shenanigans.
> ``But on the way to San Francisco, we
got a prank pulled on
> us,'' the
burly Burwell said. ``The locals in Red Bluff
> (California)
covered the bus with roses while we were asleep.''
> -=-=-
> Tell us what
you think about the ClariNews! Send your
comments
> to
<<our comments email address>> <comments@clari.net>.
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:12:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Attention: Bill Gargan
Dear Bill:
I haven't
received any Beat-L mail in over two days. Could you check what's
happening? Many
thanks for your help!
Jeffrey
Water Row
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:15:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Re: For Michael Buchenroth
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.970507085932.18621G-100000@user2.infinet.com>
I feel honored to
have the opportunity to share with a truly great
American writer
and poet! I have your book, "Last of the Mocassins"
(LOM-using your
acronym) and in fact I just finished reading it for the
2nd time. I
bought it from WaterRow earlier this spring. AND after
reading your
autobiography, seeing "Betty's" photo, etc., etc., LOM read
so much more
emotionally charged like those electrons in the EPR paradox!
As I read LOM
-inside my brain- I had emotional electrons beat-lining
faster than light
in opposite directions from each other rapping and
tapping up
against both sides of my skull and according to Eistein that
ain't supposed ta
happen! Who knows exactly what it made me feel like!
But most
certainly I "felt" your book! LOM remains such an emotionally
charged, revved
up account of incredibly interesting, truly American
experiences!
-such a rich, historical, powerful read! Damn!
Thanks Charley!
-Michael
Buchenroth
> > COWS
> >
> > Look at
cow faces
> > cattlemen
cruising the stockyards
> > the
thing is
> > cows
don't care
> > cows
are queer
> > I saw a
cow on muscle beach
> >
> > I once
found a cow magazine
> > with a
cover of cows black and white
> > hooked
up to iron milkers
> >
> > Cow
poetry in it
> >
> > If you
drink milk before going
> > to bed
you'll wake up with a
> > bovine
faced hangover
> >
> > Huncke
stole a cow
> > took it
to the city
> > on his
back
> >
> > Charles
Plymell:
> > Michael
is building a website for me. Thank you. Nice birthday present.
> >
http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
> >
>
> Michael L.
Buchenroth
>
mike@buchenroth.com
>
www.buchenroth.com
> To view
> Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
> go to
>
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
>
>
Michael L.
Buchenroth
mike@buchenroth.com
www.buchenroth.com
To view
Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
go to
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:30:55 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Attention: Bill Gargan
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 8 May 1997 11:12:52 -0400
from <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Jeff, all your
mail was bouncing back to the list. Got
a message that said you
weren't
recognized at aol.com or something to that extent. I didn't delete you
but my colleague
may have done so. Simply
resubscribe. If you have a problem,
let me know.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:33:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Oops!
Sorry for posting
that last note to Jeff to the list. I
thought it was going d
irect...oh, well!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:48:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Jan Kerouac's Burial
May 8, 1997
For those who feel (as I do) that
actual Kerouac's ought to have
something to say
about things Kerouacian, there has been a major victory.
Paul Blake, Jr. complained to St. Louis
Cemetery in Nashua that he
did not want his
grandmother Gabrielle Kerouac's grave dug up, when there
was no need to do
this. The plan had been to bury Jan's
ashes on top of
Gabrielle,
thereby saving the two remaining vacant spaces in the Kerouac
Family Plot for
members of the Sampas family. (There is
already one Sampas
buried there.)
The ownership of the plot may have to
be determined by the courts,
but the cemetery
now says they will direct Jan's ashes to be buried in one
of the empty
spaces--allowing her to have a burial site of her own, which
God knows she
deserves. At least this will allow
people to leave
remembrances specifically
for Jan, if they wish, without the confusion of
having Gabrielle
and Jan in the same grave.
I've been sick and doing extra
child-care duty, so haven't gotten to
the last two
days' posts yet; for those who may be awaiting answers, please
be patient. Thanks.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:56:43 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"Jack's Intentions"@cruzio.com
Jerry Cimino
wrote:
>
> Leon wrote,
>
> >Whatever
it is that we think, or Gerry wants everybody to think, Jack could
> have
> >very
easily left his literary properties to public agencies, if that is what
> he wanted
> >to do
with it. Like Jan wanted to do. But he didn't.
>
> Leon,
>
> I must take
issue with this line of argument.
>
> Your point
is well taken than Jack "could have" done something different than
> he did and
obviously he didn't take the necessary safeguards. But you seem
> to indicate
the disposition of his archives would not have mattered to him.
> I reject that position.
>
> >From
what I understand Kerouac kept scrupulous notes and records and had
> everything
annotated and categorized. He apparently
talked about "someday"
> when the
historians were going to look at his stuff.
We all know he
> constantly
wrote about the "Duluoz Legend" which of course was the story of
> his life
from beginning to end, everything documented, everything real.
>
> Because Jack
died unexpectedly at a relatively young age he had not yet made
> arrangements
to get everything into a University Libarary or whatever.
> Indeed, most of his books were out of print
when he died so who would expect
> anybody may
have even wanted his archive in 1969?
>
> In addition,
let's not forget Jack was a dysfunctional alcoholic, possibly
> incapable of
really planning those aspects of his life out to the detail
> required.
>
> To say he
wouldn't have cared because he didn't do these things does not
> obviate his
intent or desire. I doubt this can have
any bearing on the legel
> wrangling,
but I'm convinced Jack would not have wanted his stuff sold off
> piecemeal.
>
> Jerry Cimino
> Fog City
> .-
I can see your
point Jerry, I don't think I said he didn't care. Maybe I
should have said
if he wanted to do it badly enough, or if he was sober
enough enough of the
time, or if he cared enough. I stand corrected.
Collecting all
the iformation meticulously does not mean, however, that
he did not intend
for his desifnated heirs to use their judgment how to
deal with it
according to their need or interest. In one of the posts
someone
indicated, I believe Gerry, that Jack told his nephew that he
could do with it
whatever he wanted. My memory is vague on this.
BTW Jerry, I am
another great admirer of your interest, comprehensive
and intelligent
post on this issue. I enjoyed reading it and feel right
on about almost
all of it.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:14:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a question for you
At 06:25 PM
5/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-07 16:28:18 EDT, you write:
>
><< It
seems as though between Gerry,
> Charlie, et.
al., there are a decent number of folks here on-line who are
> quite
familiar with the "beats" on a personal as well as professional
> level.
>>
>
>Larry F. came
over to the flat one day with Ginsberg. I was urging LF to
>publishl the
First Third and was asking Neal to read it to him. That was in
>63. I had met
Neal in 62. I also urged LF to publish
Bukowski even though he
>wasn't at
that time considered a beat at least by me. LF earlier had turned
>down the
manuscript Naked Lunch for publication. At least that's what I
>heard.
>They may be
lurking or LF may be sending Rinaldo his poetry to cut up, who
>knows. I'm
sure they have spies out.
>Charles
Plymell
>
Ferlinghetti often
claims he's a painter now, not a poet, and just as often
eschews any
connection with the Beat Generation. He
straddled the fence in
the Kerouac
Estate Fight too. He got a couple of
permissions out of John
Sampas (for
SCRIPTURE OF THE GOLDEN ETERNITY--which, ironically, is in
public domain--
and for POMES ALL SIZES). But he also
donated about $200 in
rare City Lights
first editions for the benefit auction in Jan's behalf in
March, 1995. Ginsberg refused to send even one unsigned
copy of HOWL.
(Sorry, Bill
Morgan, but that's the truth.)
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:37:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Gibbons, Jeffrey x85139e1"
<x85139@EXMAIL.USMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Rolling Stone
I just wanted to
let the list members know, if they haven't seen
already, that the
newest issue of Rolling Stone has a rather lengthy
tribute to
Allen. It includes a typical remembrance
by the RS writer,
but also includes
remembrances by some of the living "Beats" and artists
that he
influenced. Some nice pics too.
Jeff
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:58:40 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Clay Vaughan
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: New York, NY
A couple of books
on the Village, not strictly defined by your
request, but
interesting nonetheless...
Fred McDarrah's
GLORY DAYS IN GREENWICH VILLAGE, and an earlier THAT
TIME AND PLACE
Anatole Broyard's
KAFKA WAS THE RAGE... not a picture book, but a
pretty lively
personal account
And on the East
Village, a book we have in our art library, a book
of photographs
(and some text) and from a much later period (1970s
into 80s) than
either the McDarrah and Broyard books is, ART AFTER
MIDNIGHT: THE
EAST VILLAGE SCENE.
These are only to
speak of some of those I've read, and not to mention
all the
sociological/historical 1920s and 30s treatments, of which
there are some
good ones, though I know you must be more focused on
the times
contemporaneous with our Beat interests.
As far as those
quasi or actual sociological treatments go, though,
the Jacob Riis
book, HOW THE OTHER HALF LIVES, or Luc Sante's LOW
LIFE: THE LURES
AND SNARES OF OLD NEW YORK can't be beat. Utterly
fascinating.
Clay Vaughan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:00:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Intro; Wm S Burroughs
Hello all...
My name's zach
and i've just added myself to the beat-l list. I've been
maintaining a Wm
S Burroughs site on the web since about the middle of '95,
and am,
obviously, a big fan of his work.
I'm not very
versed in the work of the other beats, save for Ginsberg, who
started it all
for me (it was the Miles biography of Ginsberg that i found
for a dollar at a
garage sale, got me reading in this direction.) Kerouac
i've tried to
read, but to no real success or enjoyment...
So i'm just
wondering: what are some of your general opinions on the work
and life of WSB?
if anyone's
interested, the site is going through a heavy restructuring
right now, but
the url is
http://www.burroughs.net
thanks,
-z
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:00:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
In a message
dated 97-05-06 23:44:13 EDT, you write:
<< Even
Ginsberg in his old age admitted he was wrong
about the Viet Cong and didn't
know they would be so bad. >>
When did Ginsberg
admit this?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:07:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: New York, NY
The walking tour
is really to take the form of a book to be published this
summer by City
Lights. It will contain 8 separate
walking tours of the city
plus a
miscellaneous section. Areas are:
Columbia, Times Square, Rockefeller
Center, Chelsea,
2 Village tours and 2 East Village tours.
I'm thinking
about physically
doing one or two of the walking tours sometime soon if there
is any interest,
just haven't figured out how to announce it.
There is a great
history of Times Square book, I'll try to find the title,
but it's
something like Times Square over the Years, or such.
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:12:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: Intro; Wm S Burroughs -Reply
Comments: To:
junky@BURROUGHS.NET
Hey Zach,
I'm a Burroughs
novice but thoroughly enjoy his work and his wicked
sense of
humor. Just finished reading Cities of
the Red Night. Very
cool! I too was
"introduced" to Burroughs work via Ginsberg's poetry but
lean more toward
the Kerouac side of Beat Gen. writings.
There are some
very
knowledgeable people on the list regarding Burroughs writing and
I'm sure you'll
get a kick out of some of the threads that come up. If
you haven't already,
check out Luke Kelly's Burroughs site and cut up
machine.
(www.bigtable.com) Great sight!
Welcome to the
list!
-Mark
MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>>> Zach
Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET> 05/08/97 03:00pm >>>
Hello all...
My name's zach
and i've just added myself to the beat-l list. I've been
maintaining a Wm
S Burroughs site on the web since about the middle of
'95,
and am,
obviously, a big fan of his work.
I'm not very
versed in the work of the other beats, save for Ginsberg,
who
started it all
for me (it was the Miles biography of Ginsberg that i
found
for a dollar at a
garage sale, got me reading in this direction.)
Kerouac
i've tried to
read, but to no real success or enjoyment...
So i'm just
wondering: what are some of your general opinions on the
work
and life of WSB?
if anyone's
interested, the site is going through a heavy restructuring
right now, but
the url is
http://www.burroughs.net
thanks,
-z
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:02:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
At 04:00 PM
5/8/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-06 23:44:13 EDT, you write:
>
><< Even
> Ginsberg in
his old age admitted he was wrong about the Viet Cong and didn't
> know they
would be so bad. >>
>
>When did
Ginsberg admit this?
>
This was
mentioned in the NY Times Obituary. A
similar disapointment about
the
"mullahs" in Iran was noted.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:06:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tracy J Neumann
<tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: pranksters
In-Reply-To:
<199705081420.AA285021243@lulu.acns.nwu.edu>
Hi! I just returned from seeing Kesey and the bus
in Ann Arbor, and
thought I'd throw
in a few comments. First, does someone
who knows more
about kesey and
this exhibit than I do know why they changed the spelling
of
"Furthur" to "Further"?
Just curious. I read the post of
the article
from Chicago and
had to laugh, because for once it seemd like a fairly
accurate
assessment. There was something odd and
surreal about Borders
employees
wandering around in tie-dyed tees with "The Pranksters do Ann
Arbor" or
something equally silly on the back. It was still pretty cool,
though...John
Cassady bumped into me and I had resist the urge to grab him
and tell him how
obssessed I am with his father :) Also, does anyone know
what's on the
videos they're selling along with the tee shirts? Are they
copies of the
video Tom Wolfe describes in The Electric Kool-Aid Acid
Test? Anyway, just wanted to encourage anyone who
has the opportunity to
check out the bus
and Kesey--sorry if I sound a little over eager and
completely
unworldly, but for a 21 year old midwestern college student
events like these
are the most excitement I'm likely to get for quite a
while!!
Tracy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:15:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In-Reply-To:
<970508003826_-1266179629@emout14.mail.aol.com>
Interesting (you
should make coffee more often at night) recognition--and
credible, since
Jack did spell <poem> as <pome> presumably to de-academize.
de-pietize, or
de-mystify poetry (a la Monkey-Zen or Holy Goofery), but I
don't get the
part about apple in relation to <pome>?
// John M.
While I'm making
coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to
>consciousness
and for the first time I see the "pome" part of it like an
>apple, or a
poem (as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's
"ray"
>instead, all
the better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous
>fast-moving
fish.
>
>Cody then
recalls Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary
>showman,
>or the code
that is the matrix of manifestation.
>
>Jul
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:29:03 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In-Reply-To:
<l03020902af980dc243bf@[141.224.144.84]>
easy
"pomme"
is french for "apple". so you get
"poem","king","apple",
"ray/shine"
all thru one name.
excellent job,
jul.
horay!
yrs
yass yass
derek
On Thu, 8 May
1997, John Mitchell wrote:
>
> Interesting
(you should make coffee more often at night) recognition--and
> credible,
since Jack did spell <poem> as <pome> presumably to de-academize.
> de-pietize,
or de-mystify poetry (a la Monkey-Zen or Holy Goofery), but I
> don't get
the part about apple in relation to <pome>? // John M.
>
> While I'm
making coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to
>
>consciousness and for the first time
I see the "pome" part of it
like an
> >apple,
or a poem (as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's
"ray"
> >instead,
all the better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous
>
>fast-moving fish.
> >
> >Cody
then recalls Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary
> >showman,
> >or the
code that is the matrix of manifestation.
> >
> >Jul
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:39:12 +0000
Reply-To: morocco@walrus.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Severance
<morocco@WALRUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
> >While
I'm making coffee tonight, the name "Cody Pomeroy" bubbles up to
>
>consciousness and for the first time
I see the "pome" part of it
like an
> >apple,
or a poem (as in all sizes) and the "roy" like king. But if it's
"ray"
> >instead,
all the better to reach, search and shine or be an elegant dangerous
>
>fast-moving fish.
> >
> >Cody
then recalls Wild Bill, master of self-reinvention and legendary
> >showman,
> >or the
code that is the matrix of manifestation.
> >
> >Jul
> Interesting
(you should make coffee more often at night) recognition--and
> credible,
since Jack did spell <poem> as <pome> presumably to de-academize.
> de-pietize,
or de-mystify poetry (a la Monkey-Zen or Holy Goofery), but I
> don't get
the part about apple in relation to <pome>? // John M.
The name
"Cody Pomeroy" certainly resonates with me. My brother and
sister-in-law
named their eldest son "Cody" (neither of them have ever
read Kerouac;
neither of them have probably ever even heard of JK) and
my paternal
grandfather's mother was born to immigrants from Wales, in
Pomeroy, OH, an
Ohio river town.
* + * + * + * + *
+ * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
Gregory Severance
morocco@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"What
costume shall the poor girl wear
to all tomorrow's
parties?" -- Lou Reed
["All
Tomorrow's Parties"]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"But at the
far end of the universe
the million eyed
Spyder that hath no name
spinneth of
itself endlessly" -- Allen Ginsberg
["Lysergic
Acid"]
* + * + * + * + *
+ * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:44:40 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Cast of Characters
At 06:12 PM
5/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In my
ignorance I guess I was under the mistaken impression that John Sampas
>was one of
Stella's brothers, a guy pehaps in his 60-70's.
Now, after
>reading a
recent post it appears he is a nephew of Stella, I'm assuming
>somebody in
his 30's-50's. Could someone clarify,
please?
>
>Also, who is
Jim Sampas? I saw on the Rykodisc he is
listed as the Producer
>of the
CD. How is he related to John?
>
>
>Another
interesting thing I discovered while doing my research. Apparently
>George Tobia,
John Sampas' lawyer, is also Hunter S. Thompson's lawyer.
> Anybody know
how that came about? On the Rykodisc it
says he was present
>when Hunter
was recording "Ode to Jack" at 5 in the morning! Christ, I hope
>he wasn't on
billable time!
>
>Jerry Cimino
>Fog City
>
John Sampas is Stella's youngest
brother. Jim Sampas is John's
nephew. John has been grooming Jim as his
successor. Thanks to John's
sponsorship, Jim
got to produce some of the musical events at the last NYU
Kerouac
conference (the one Jan and I were kicked out of, after Jan asked
for 5 minutes to
speak). Jim Sampas was all over the place
with a purple
ribbon on his
chest, while they didn't even give Jan a free ticket to the
Town Hall
reading, and she stood outside on the street all nite. (Further
history, if
anyone cares.) (Maybe I'm now talking to myself.)
My guess is that Thompson got to know
Sampas at the first NYU Beat
Conference in
1994, and Sampas "did him a favor" (John's favorite way of
getting useful
people into his camp). I'm glad you
explained that to me,
because Thompson
almost punched me out when I asked him to write a piece on
Jan Kerouac and
her fight to save her father's archive.
Thompson also acted
like I was some
rude stranger coming up to him in New York, when in fact I'd
had dinner with
him and Ron Kovic (my old buddy, Mr. Born on the Fourth of
July) in North
Beach a few years earlier. However,
Thompson was stoned at
the time of the
North Beach dinner, he was jumping up on the tables in
Tosca's and
swinging at imaginary fastballs, so I guess he had an excuse for
not remembering.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:04:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=USGOV%l=EXMAIL10-970508193734Z-39998@exmail04.usma.army.mil>
On Thu, 8 May
1997, Gibbons, Jeffrey x85139e1 wrote:
> I just
wanted to let the list members know, if they haven't seen
> already,
that the newest issue of Rolling Stone has a rather lengthy
> tribute to
Allen. It includes a typical remembrance
by the RS writer,
> but also
includes remembrances by some of the living "Beats" and artists
> that he
influenced. Some nice pics too.
> Jeff
>
> >
>
I heard that,
from a reliable source (someone who works at Rolling Stone),
that AG was
supposed to get the cover but then U2's manager called up
Rolling Stone and
told them that they really needed the cover (their
record and tour
sales were down and they needed the publicity).
Is U2 on the
cover? If this is true than i think i
will never again have
the love for U2
that I did.
thought you all might
be interested in this tidbit--I was very offended.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:11:16 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone
Allen G. was
going to be on the cover of Rolling Stone, they even did the art
work for it. Jann
Wener was all for it "despite the money they would lose in
sales."
However, the band U2 had a contract for the cover and pushed for it.
This was the
band's agents that were pushing for the cover, the band itself may
not have even
known what was happening. BTW, U2 was slagging in sales which is
one reason why
their "people" pushed for the cover. So Allen missed out and U2
got the press,
yawn.....
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:11:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Jack Kerouac's intentions
>> Because
Jack died unexpectedly at a relatively young age he had not yet made
>>
arrangements to get everything into a University Libarary or whatever.
>> Indeed, most of his books were out of print
when he died so who would expect
>> anybody
may have even wanted his archive in 1969?
>>
>> In
addition, let's not forget Jack was a dysfunctional alcoholic, possibly
>>
incapable of really planning those aspects of his life out to the detail
>>
required.
>>
>> To say
he wouldn't have cared because he didn't do these things does not
>> obviate
his intent or desire. I doubt this can
have any bearing on the legel
>>
wrangling, but I'm convinced Jack would not have wanted his stuff sold off
>>
piecemeal.
>>
>> Jerry
Cimino
>> Fog City
>> .-
>
>I can see
your point Jerry, I don't think I said he didn't care. Maybe I
>should have
said if he wanted to do it badly enough, or if he was sober
>enough enough
of the time, or if he cared enough. I stand corrected.
>
>Collecting
all the iformation meticulously does not mean, however, that
>he did not
intend for his desifnated heirs to use their judgment how to
>deal with it
according to their need or interest. In one of the posts
>someone
indicated, I believe Gerry, that Jack told his nephew that he
>could do with
it whatever he wanted. My memory is vague on this.
>
>BTW Jerry, I
am another great admirer of your interest, comprehensive
>and
intelligent post on this issue. I enjoyed reading it and feel right
>on about
almost all of it.
>
(Leon Tabory)
Dear Leon-- May 8, 1997
I agree with Jerry that I don't think
Jack expected to die as
quickly as he
did. He had gone to his lawyer in
September, 1969, to get a
divorce filed
against Stella, and probably figured he'd live to see the
divorce go
thru. If Stella was out of the picture,
and Jack left everything
to his mother,
then as far as he knew his archive would pass along to Paul
and Jan, his
"blood line," as he called it.
Before Jack died, needing money desperately,
he did make two sales
of parts of his
archive--both times to universities, his Ginsberg letters to
U. of Texas, and
his Burroughs letters to Columbia. He
rejected, however, a
big deal from
Gotham Book Mart.
Jack did tell his nephew, essentially,
to do what he wanted with
Jack's stuff,
which just goes to show the kind of trust that existed within
the inner core of
the Kerouac family. He had last seen
Paul Jr. when Paul
was about 20 or
21, and Jack had known him all his (Paul's) life. That
trust has been
vindicated, since Paul Jr. has never wavered in his intention
to get
"Uncle Jack's" papers into a library, if Gabrielle's will is thrown
out in
Florida. Paul even signed a letter of
intention with Jan to get all
Jack's stuff into
the Bancroft Library, if details can be worked out.
In the October 20, 1969, letter you
refer to, Jack made clear that
he did not want
anyone named Sampas to as much as touch his papers. I don't
think there's any
way you can construe this to mean the Sampases were his
"designated
heirs."
Even when the "designated
heirs" sell things off piecemeal, it's not
pretty. There's an article anyone interested in the
Kerouac Estate Fight
ought to read in
this month's POETS & WRITERS magazine, called "Selling
Pieces of the
Phoenix: May Sarton's Estate Goes to the Auction Block."
Sarton's heirs
evidently figured it was okay to auction all her personal
belongings [not
her manuscripts and papers] as a benefit for the American
Academy of Arts
& Sciences, but, as the writer Frances Lefkowitz comments:
"As her
possessions get split up and carted off, sold and resold, her
writing is the
only thing that stands a chance of remaining whole." Ditto
for Jack Kerouac,
unless we win in Florida.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:20:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters Interview
Jerry:
Do you know what
number it is. I have all the ones I'm in
and might have it.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:34:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
At 07:11 PM
5/7/97 -0700, you wrote:
>William
Morgan wrote: . .
> My main concern is whether it's fair to say
>> he was
"arrested" since I've seen it mentioned that he was "arrested as
a
>> material
witness" or was he "held" as a material witness.
>> Bill
Morgan
>
>And I
understand from courtesy of a backchannel post that Jan Kerouac
>sold the
arrest warrant--so maybe we will never know.
>
>J Stauffer
>
Dear James: May 8, 1997
Will my "backchannel"
opponents never tire of mudslinging?
(I guess it's easier than answering why
John Sampas isn't putting
the Kerouac
archive in a library.)
Jan Kerouac did not sell the Lucien
Carr material witness warrant.
Jan sold the warrant (belonging to her
mother) which sought Jack
Kerouac to pay
child support. It was given her by her
mother. She made
several copies of
it before she sold it. It is not the
kind of document
which is
important for scholars who are studying the composition process of
Jack
Kerouac. I will place a copy on deposit
in the Bancroft Library, along
with Jan's whole
archive, if John Lash ever lets me.
Jan sold it because she needed the
money to bring Paul Blake Jr.'s
son, young Paul
III, to speak in his father's place in New York, at a press
conference
announcing the filing of her Florida lawsuit in 1994. It was
important for
someone to represent Blake's point of view there.
The person who bought the warrant, as I
understand it, was John
Sampas's lawyer,
GEORGE TOBIA. Since then, the Sampases
have used that fact
to claim, over
and over, that Jan would simply sell off Jack Kerouac's whole
archive piecemeal
if she got the same chance.
Neither Mr. Tobia nor Mr. Sampas could
have been too interested in
the actual
warrant if they never even bothered to read it.
In any case, we
can rest assured
that it's in good hands.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:38:19 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re:
Intro; Wm S Burroughs
Zach Hoon wrote:
>
> Hello all...
>
> My name's
zach and i've just added myself to the beat-l list. I've been
> maintaining
a Wm S Burroughs site on the web since about the middle of '95,
> and am,
obviously, a big fan of his work.
>
> I'm not very
versed in the work of the other beats, save for Ginsberg, who
> started it
all for me (it was the Miles biography of Ginsberg that i found
> for a dollar
at a garage sale, got me reading in this direction.) Kerouac
> i've tried
to read, but to no real success or enjoyment...
>
> So i'm just
wondering: what are some of your general opinions on the work
> and life of
WSB?
>
> if anyone's
interested, the site is going through a heavy restructuring
> right now,
but the url is
>
http://www.burroughs.net
>
> thanks,
>
> -z
Zach, your e-mail
address while amusing at least doesn't allow
communication
from the Kansas vortex.
welcome to the
list. i had a longer welcome via
backchannel but i think
it is off
somewhere in the wiring of things now.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:21:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Linda Highland <lrgh@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: It's a Small World, After All
Were members of
this list at the "Velvet Years" opening at the
Photogaphiuc
Resource Center in Boston this evening,
or is the Kerouac
Estate matter on
Everybody's mind? I happened to overhear
part of a
conversation
about "Sampas" and
"Ann" and , I think < the Lowell
committee? It didn;t seem appropriate to maintain a
prolonged attempt
at eavesdropping,
much less jumping into the conversation--so I pried
myself away ,
dying of curiousity.
Great photo fo
Jack listening to himself on the radio in the other
exhibit, huh,
mystery Beat-l member?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:29:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone [OFF TOPIC NON-BEAT]
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.94.970508180204.58451A-100000@rs4.tcs.tulane.edu>
[WARNING:
OFF-TOPIC]
On Thu, 8 May
1997, Matthew S Sackmann wrote:
> Is U2 on the
cover? If this is true than i think i
will never again have
> the love for
U2 that I did.
If this bit of
crass capitalism gets you mad, then you should look into what
they did to the
people in the band Negativland -- it'll _really_ get you
going.
In brief:
Negativland once made a very excellent album called _U2_, sampling
bits of their
"Where the streets have no name" song (interspersed with true
recordings of
Casey Kasem swearing and insulting the callers of his American
Top 40 radio show
-- off-air, of course). It's a great song, but of course
U2 brought their
iron hammer down on the band, causing them all sorts of
grief, including
an incredible amount of debt. And, of course, they ordered
(and succeeded)
in recalling the record, though you can still find copies
out there. But
they seriously destroyed the lives of the people in that band.
In interviews
& other public spots, several times during this time period
(including
interviews in that trash of a rag _Rolling Stone_), the members
of U2 said that
they loved the idea of "sampling" and encouraged others to
do that with
their own work (this was around the "Zoo TV" time, when during
live concerts
Bono & co. made a point of continuous sampling of others'
work, by
rebroadcasting a satellite tv feed onstage and randomly flipping
through
stations). Figuring, of course, that most people reading a U2
interview for
content would not know about the plight of Negativland, much
less have ever
even heard of them. I think their gratutious blather on and
on about how much
they "supported" sampling is what made this whole event so
perverse in my
eyes -- it made Bono and friends look like the depraved
protagonist of
Bret Easton Ellis' _American Psycho_, playing in his own
scat. Anyway, you
can check out Negativland's stuff out at
http://www.negativland.com
-- yeah they're still around, and doing well.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:30:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: flapjack interlude
To maybe
understand more go to
http://www.onestep.com/writers/short/gallaher/short.html
Shortstack
Lightening Champeen Pancake Eater
>From: Will
Russell <wrussell@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
>Subject: Re:
Hi Tim
>To:
gallaher@hsc.usc.edu (Timothy K. Gallaher)
>Date: Thu, 8
May 1997 18:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
>MIME-Version:
1.0
>
>Timothy, The
great Flapjack on skid row hittin' the coffee hard, bit bad
>by the
caffein bug was visited by the late Ezikiel O'Mally in a dream.
>And in that
dream O'Mally spoke of a train, a slow train that was
>a'comin'
carrying on it a special cargo."Where's that train bound? I don't
>know,"
said a voice in the dream, but he knew it was bound for Glory.
>Glory
Tennessee, that is, where the most infamous eater of pancakes now
>resides in a
penthouse suite at the top of the tallest of the tallest
>swanky
apartment buildings in the state, all four hundred pounds of him
>resting up
there in comfort, Shortstack Lightning, who let fame and the
>pancakes of
the rich change him from a decent country boy
>into..into..a..Monster!
Flapjack woke from his dream in a sweat, and
>rubbed his
swollen coffee ruined stomach. I was the
best once, the
>greatest
pancake eater in the United States, maybe the world. The kids now
>the were
fast, it was true. With all that special
training equipment and
>designer
pancake eating drugs. But where was the
heart. "They got no
>heart." He croaked outloud to noone in
particular. Maybe, just maybe he
>could kick
the coffee. Maybe, just one more time he
could drag himself
>out of
retirement and sit at that big table one more time. Maybe, just
>maybe old
Flapjack was gonna sit down and eat him some pancakes.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:48:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Intro; Wm S Burroughs
In a message
dated 97-05-08 21:39:03 EDT, you write:
<< Zach,
your e-mail address while amusing at least doesn't allow
communication from the Kansas vortex.
welcome to the list. i had a longer welcome via backchannel but i
think
it is off somewhere in the wiring of things
now.
>>
Are whole gobs
missing? I'll have to check the
Burroughs site out. Maybe
write something
about the last supper I had with him and Ginsberg. Both
proper gentlemen.
Appearing to clean up their act. Shaking hands with babies.
Reciting
Shakespeare. Checking out the .38 Special. Rolling a joint. Roasting
lamb chops.
Fiddling with a hand painted tie. Ginsberg tidying up the
kitchen. Washing
dishes in a tie. Oh my. The sobbing Vortex howls.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:49:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone [OFF TOPIC NON-BEAT]
> > Is U2
on the cover? If this is true than i
think i will never again
have
> > the
love for U2 that I did.
>
> If this bit
of crass capitalism gets you mad, then you should look into
what
> they did to
the people in the band Negativland -- it'll _really_ get you
> going.
From what I have heard about the whole
Negativeland thing... And this is
second hand
information so take it however you will...
But I heard that
that was all out of
the bands control. That U2 was impressed
with the NL
cd, but that
their record company took it upon themselves to file action.
Like I said, I don't know how trur
this, but I do know that bands have
relatively little
to say about what their record companies do...
Even with
what songs are on
cds. This _could_ be the case with both
of these
incidents. But then again... U2 could just have gotten way too big for
their heads...
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
|"A good
question is never answered. It is not a
bolt to be tightened
| into place but
a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the
| hope of
greening the landscape of idea."
|
| -- John Ciardi
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:08:10 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone [OFF TOPIC NON-BEAT]
In-Reply-To:
<9705082255.aa22724@buffnet1.buffnet.net>
and one more
comment about thhe U2 / ginsberg / neativeland... to bring
all this full
circle Ginsberg was featured in a U2 special about the
making of their
current tur a few backs on much (recorded before that
obviously).
Ginsberg was shown reciting one of U2 songs from their latest
cd. (i think it
"miami" off of _pop_)
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:14:34 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Intro; Wm S Burroughs
Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 97-05-08 21:39:03 EDT, you write:
>
> <<
Zach, your e-mail address while amusing at least doesn't allow
> communication from the Kansas vortex.
> welcome to the list. i had a longer welcome via backchannel but i
think
> it is off somewhere in the wiring of things
now.
> >>
>
> Are whole
gobs missing? I'll have to check the
Burroughs site out. Maybe
> write
something about the last supper I had with him and Ginsberg. Both
> proper
gentlemen. Appearing to clean up their act. Shaking hands with babies.
> Reciting
Shakespeare. Checking out the .38 Special. Rolling a joint. Roasting
> lamb chops.
Fiddling with a hand painted tie. Ginsberg tidying up the
> kitchen.
Washing dishes in a tie. Oh my. The sobbing Vortex howls.
> Charles
Plymell
were you in tie
and shaking babies with 38s in hand as well ?
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:26:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters Interview
Thanks for the
interest in helping, Charles... I
believe it is issue # 24,
Spring 1996. Hopefuly, you'll have it.
BTW, I hope I'm
not coming off as too much of a hard ass to you or anyone
else with some of
my more recent posts. I'm just extremely
concerned with
some of the
rhetoric and innuendo that's been offered as "proof" of what is
really going on
with the estate situation, hence my desire to dig a little
deeper.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:23:26 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: It's a Small World, After All
Linda,
The shows title
aroused my curiousity--what's it about.
J Stauffer
Linda Highland
wrote:
>
> Were members
of this list at the "Velvet Years" opening at the
> Photogaphiuc
Resource Center in Boston this evening,
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:39:02 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack's Intentions
Jerry,
l admire your
persistence in trying to get at the truth in this muddle.
I still have to
agree with Leon's original statement on this.
Clearly
Jack didn't do
this right, but what he did do has to really be the
determining
factor. If the will is forged, Gerry and
his forces are
clearly
right. If the will isn't, as I read
these posts the material is
the legal
property of the folks currently controlling it.
They may not
make the
decisions that we would like, but they are free to make their
own bad choices. Ultimately, as Leon points out, it goes back
to Jack
at least as much
as any other evil characters here. As
badly as Jack
treated his
daughter it is hard to straighten out his mistakes for him.
I don't have any
evidence, and am just going to count on the system
(desperate
thought) to sort out smoking guns from smoke and mirrors.
In reference to
Gerry's post, apparantly my source referenced the wrong
Jack Kerouac
warrant as the one Jan sold, but the point is the same.
Gerry says the
warrant isn't important, a copy will do fine.
How is
this different
than asserting that the original texts aren't important,
scholars can do
just as well with copies? I guess I'm
missing something
here. We also hear that it is wrong to keep letters
from being
published,
presumably so as not to affect living people, as in the
example dealing
with Whalen's personal life. I agree,
I'm all for full
disclosure, but
holding this stuff back until the participants are gone
is, or has been,
a fairly standard practice, whether I like it or not.
And I keep
swearing I won't enter this quagmire.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 05:22:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: CORNIX applet
Comments: To:
stutz@dsl.org, mike@buchenroth.com, pscalia@nh.ultranet.com,
blove@wylieagency.com,
Jwhite333@aol.com, stand666@bitstream.net,
pottsca@wwics.com, McSnake10@aol.com,
goblin@sonic.net,
rbove@duke.poly.edu,
Seward23@aol.com, ChloieA@aol.com,
Donkennis@aol.com, rayl@wsuhub.twsu.edu,
roxie@clark.net,
"jefferya.beach"
<gyaltsen@earthlink.net>,
Waterrow@aol.com,
KeroConnec.@aol.com, stauffer@pacbell.net,
judy.logan.ace@artsfb.org.uk,
"donaldg.jr.lee" <donlee@comp.uark.edu>
Dear Mike:
I checked the
flashing words through the computers at school, and my director
ordered a program
for the writing lab. I'm very interested
in the effects.
It shows the mind
can assimilate words faster than we speak and also shows
that our former
"mind chunk" teaching pedagogy may not be including a more
digital
generation that is reading city signs flashing neon roads, stop
lights,
directions, etc.
I set some
students in front of it. One with obvious language difficulties
could interpret
the message easier, one was afraid of its strobe like effect
and made her
uncomfortable. My director, I think, was interested when I said
it calmed me
down. Possibly it may be a good device instead of Ritlin for
younger kids. I
see a lot of what I call borderline disability in accessing
language that
frustrates especially as a group, young men. I'm posting
Buchenroth to see
if he can work one of my bebop poems through the word flash
at about 450rpm.
He is building an incredible site for me. Do you have any
further advice or
developments or ideas. Please contact me
(pam@cherryvalley.com)
and check out Michael's site. He has posted my
autobiography and
my reefer madness essay and the announcement of my new book
Robbing the
Pillars for Gen. X in the Age of Apostasy.
(www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 03:11:47 +0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<muzik@lcp-yoda.com>
From: Nancy Johns <muzik@LCP-YODA.COM>
Subject: Patti Smith Concert Posters
Would you like to
be notified when I have some Patti
Smith concert
posters, records and/or memorabilia for sale?
Please reply to muzik@lcp-yoda.com
Thanks And Have A Wonderful Day!
Nancy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:21:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Linda Highland <lrgh@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone [OFF TOPIC NON-BEAT]
Re:why U-2 or
their agents may feel publicity is imperative--according
to this week's
Newsweek, their TV Special (recent, I infer) was the
lowest rated show
ever.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:33:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Linda Highland <lrgh@WEBTV.NET>
Subject: Re: It's a Small World, After All
For James and
anyone else who puzzled over my somewhat cryptic mention
of the Velvet
years:
The Velvet Years
is an exhibit of photos taken by Steven Shore in Andy
Warhol's factory
around the time the Velvet Underground were still part
of it. The gentlemen discusing Beat-list type subjects were standing
in this
area. However, a concurrent show was
running called "Extended
Play-Between a
Rock and a Hard Place", which was art work from various
mucisians--Patti
Smith, Kim Gordon, Lou Reed, Willie Alexander, Fred
Frith, and others.
This exhibit included a couple stills from Pull My
Daisy and a
rather wonderful shot of Keroauc listening to himself on the
radio. Unfortunately, I do not remember off hand the
musican
photographers of
these particular works, though I suspect it was John
Cohen.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:36:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tracy J Neumann
<tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Ginsberg Memorial
In-Reply-To: <199705091233.FAA06254@mailtod-102.bryant.webtv.net>
For anyone who's
interested, there will be a memorial service and concert
in Ann Arbor on
May 24th in honor of Allen Ginsberg.
Patti Smith and
Natalie merchant
are playing and i think Anne Waldman is
speaking...There's
also some sort of poetry
contest. As usual, tickets are available through
Ticketmaster (does this
seem weird to
anyone else??)
Tracy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:32:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
>Dear
James: May 8, 1997
>
> Will my "backchannel"
opponents never tire of mudslinging?
GERRY I THINK WE
ON THE LIST HAVE SEEN YOU DO YOUR SHARE OF MUDSLINGING
> (I guess it's easier than answering why
John Sampas isn't putting
>the Kerouac
archive in a library.)
GERRY YOU KNOW
QUITE WELL THAT JOHN SAMPAS HAS PLACED (THROUGH HIS DEALER)
MANY KEROUAC
ITEMS IN THE BERG COLLECTION OF THE NY PUBLIC LIBRARY> WHY ARE
YOU HIDING THIS
KIND OF STUFF FROM THE BEAT-L LIST? HERE IS A LETTER THAT
WAS SENT TO THE
EDITOR OF THE LOWELL SUN FROM RODNEY PHILLIPS ASSOCIATE.
DIRECTOR OF
HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES AT THE BERG. Here Goes:
THE NEW YORK
PUBLIC LIBRARY
The Research
Libraries-Fifth Avenue and 42 Street, New York 10018-2788
The Sun June 17,1994
Lowell,
Massachusetts 01800
Dear Editors:
In an effort to counteract the
misinformation and disinformation
promulgated
concerning the
New York Public Library and the papers of Jack Kerouac, I
must take issue
with the letter to the editor written by Gerald Nicosia that
appeared in the
June 12 issue of the Sun. Simply stated, as reported, Mr.
Nicosia
misconstrued my remarks.
To begin with, I did not, nor would I
ever describe the New York
Public Library's
collection of Jack Kerouac manuscripts as "a few". The Berg
collection of
English and American Literature has purchased nine major
manuscripts,
including Beat Generation (a play), Book of Dreams,Book of
sketches, Lucien
Midnight,Maggie Cassady, Mexico City Blues, Passing
Through, Satori
in Paris, and Some of the Dharma.
Although these manuscripts were
purchased primarily from one rare
book and
manuscript dealer, it has always been clear to the library that
these manuscripts
have as their provenance the estate of Jack Kerouac as
represented by
John Sampas. Furthermore,it has been similarly clear that Mr.
Sampas would
"like" all the Kerouac papers to come to The New York Public
Library.
The New York Public Library has signed
a legal deposit agreement
with Mr. Sampas
to temporarily store the manuscript scroll of On the Road
for safekeeping
in the Library's secure, climate-controlled storage areas. I
have never
characterized this as "simply holding the scroll manuscript"
Although the
library has no plans to physically conserve the scroll since it
does not belong
to us, it should be noted that we plan to commission a
conservation
survey of it. While I told Mr. Nicosia that the library could
never hope to own
the scroll if it's asking price was truly one million
dollars, I must
add that I have never been told the scroll's asking price by
anyone except Mr.
Nicosia.
I hope this will clear up some of the
inaccuracies and ambiguities
in Mr. Nicosia's
account of his conversation with me.
Sincerely,
Rodney Phillips
Associate Director,
Humanities & Social
Sciences
Are you going to
try and tell us on the list that you have never read this
letter? I have
asked you nicely to stop trashing the volunteers of Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac but instead you continue to promulgate untruths such as:
"The only
thing I left out is that federal funding was cut from the
Lowell Kerouac
Committee after complaints were made to the National Park
Service about the
partisan use of funding for past Kerouac events. Even the
National Park
Service doesn't think your committee deserves funding any
more--so why
should I fund it?
This is totally
untrue Lowell Celebrates Kerouac ended their relationship
with the National
Park Service because in return for their support they
wanted to dictate
our program (like most government agencies). We chose to
retain our
independence. WE MADE THAT DECISION GERRY NOT THEM. We continue
to have an
amicable, but unofficial relationship with them.
"Tell Sampas to get on here
himself, so we can stop running around
in circles and
get to the heart of the matter.
You know damn
well John Sampas is not going to come on this list and argue
with you.
Quite frankly he
couldn't be bothered with someone he considers a slanderer.
"The problem
is, my archive has been closed to the public.
This
happened about
two years ago, after John Sampas went to speak with the
librarian, to
complain that the public should not have access to this
material without
his permission."
You know this
isn't true you have talked to Martha Mayo. The archive isn't
"closed"
and it had nothing to do with John Sampas. I explained what
happened in a
previous post.
Gerry I will ask
you again please keep your beef with Sampas private and
don't try to hurt
people who work hard to promote Kerouac in his own
hometown such as
the people of Lowell Celebrates Kerouac.
Again Gerry you
must know of the numerous items placed in the Berg
Collection by
John Sampas. Why do you try to hide these facts. I bet you
could even get a
list if you tried but that wouldn't serve your cause would
it Gerry? Phil
Chaput
> Jan Kerouac did not sell the Lucien
Carr material witness warrant.
> Jan sold the warrant (belonging to her
mother) which sought Jack
>Kerouac to
pay child support. It was given her by
her mother. She made
>several
copies of it before she sold it. It is
not the kind of document
>which is
important for scholars who are studying the composition process of
>Jack Kerouac.
I will place a copy on deposit in the
Bancroft Library, along
>with Jan's
whole archive, if John Lash ever lets me.
> Jan sold it because she needed the
money to bring Paul Blake Jr.'s
>son, young
Paul III, to speak in his father's place in New York, at a press
>conference
announcing the filing of her Florida lawsuit in 1994. It was
>important for
someone to represent Blake's point of view there.
> The person who bought the warrant, as I
understand it, was John
>Sampas's
lawyer, GEORGE TOBIA. Since then, the
Sampases have used that fact
>to claim,
over and over, that Jan would simply sell off Jack Kerouac's whole
>archive
piecemeal if she got the same chance.
> Neither Mr. Tobia nor Mr. Sampas could
have been too interested in
>the actual
warrant if they never even bothered to read it.
In any case, we
>can rest
assured that it's in good hands.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:01:12 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: CORNIX applet
Charley,
I'll be very interested
to see what you do with this.
I looked at the
Cornix site and was fascinated, despite it being rather
to much for my
screen and my computers brain power. My
first sense was
that it would be
limiting for poetry because I would miss the sense of
rythm in the line
and the stanza. I supose, however, that
one could
find ways to use
rythm in the way the words flash. Great
potential for
a lot of things,
and I think you sense of possible value for kids with
reading problems
of whatever attention deficit etc is is really
interesting.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:03:48 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Velvet Era
Linda,
Suspected a
Velvet Underground thing. Sounds like a
couple of
interesting
shows.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:26:41 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: CORNIX applet
James Stauffer
wrote:
>
> Charley,
>
> I'll be very
interested to see what you do with this.
>
> I looked at
the Cornix site and was fascinated, despite it being rather
> to much for
my screen and my computers brain power.
My first sense was
> that it
would be limiting for poetry because I would miss the sense of
> rythm in the
line and the stanza. I supose, however,
that one could
> find ways to
use rythm in the way the words flash.
Great potential for
> a lot of
things, and I think you sense of possible value for kids with
> reading
problems of whatever attention deficit etc is is really
> interesting.
>
> James
I have a
step-sister with ADD and she is much more of a visual learner.
i really think it
could help her and others with the illness.
as for the rhythm
hmmm.m.m.m, i ain't got none anyway !?!?!?!?!
i tried it
out. i was thinking, how long would it
take me to read all
of the folks that
my illiterate nature means i should read.
it seems
like a great
device.
the question of
course is getting works in public domain or at least
educational use
texts so that they can be incorporated with the
technology. my hunch is that it will become something of
a hurdle....
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:44:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: New JK books for Fall
This week's
Publishers Weekly has an article about Jack and publication.
Viking Penguin
are publishing a 40th anniversary edition of OTR (which
currently sells
60,000 copies a year) complete with the Millstein NYTBR
review that
hailed its publication as a 'historic occasion'. Additionally,
a marathon
commemorative reading series will be held along the original
route taken in
OTR, and there'll be a major Authors Guild fundraising event
featuring
Garrison Keillor (!!??) and friends 'updating some classic OTR
chapters for a
'90s audience. (PMWIP)
ALSO Viking are
bringing out "SOME OF THE DHARMA", described as "An in-depth
study of Buddhism
that Kerouac completed in 1956 but could not find a
publisher
for". It was originally intended as notes for AG, bt grew to
become "an
expansion of his famous spontaneous prose methold, and includes
prayers, poems,
haikus, meditations, conversations and stories printed and
arranged into
intricate patterns and shapes"
re the estate ...
the PW article says the following. (Disclaimer - *I* am
not saying this,
don't flame me)
"After
Kerouac's death, rights to his works were owned by his widow, Stella,
wh refused to
release any unpublished work. After Stella dies in 1989, John
Sampa, executor
of Kerouac's estate, and Lord {the agent Sterling Lord, JK's
original agent, I
think? NWW} sold to Viking all of Kerouac's unpublished
materials."
This suggests to
me that, as I suggested last week, the publication of
unreleased
material is being controlled not by the estate as such, but as
business
decisions by the publisher. But i didn't know that 'all' the
unpublished
material had been sold - so presumably the estate has a mighty
big advance for
that already tucked away. It's hard to believe that Sterling
Lord could really
have allowed seven JK books to go into public domain (I'm
not being
antagonisitic, Gerry or disbelieving, it's just such a basic mistake)
Anyhow, start
saving up for Fall. The big guys are after your hard-earned...
Nick
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director, Northwestern
University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:08:07 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Thomas Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re:
Intro; Wm S Burroughs -Reply
Burroughs is
great, obviously.
It's just a shame
that his "best" (INHO) books are his least
well known ones:
Western Lands and Ghost of Chance.
I'm going to be
doing a course on the Beats next year - it
seems odd that
the Burroughs work on the reading list is
"Naked
Lunch", which is carefully calculated to put anyone
off unless
they're particularly determined.
Tom. H.
"A Bear of
Very Little Brain"
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:30:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: CORNIX applet
Comments: To:
CVEditions@aol.com
Comments: cc:
mike@buchenroth.com, pscalia@nh.ultranet.com,
blove@wylieagency.com,
Jwhite333@aol.com, stand666@bitstream.net,
pottsca@wwics.com, McSnake10@aol.com,
goblin@sonic.net,
rbove@duke.poly.edu,
Seward23@aol.com, ChloieA@aol.com,
Donkennis@aol.com,
rayl@wsuhub.twsu.edu, roxie@clark.net,
"jefferya.beach"
<gyaltsen@earthlink.net>,
Waterrow@aol.com,
KeroConnec.@aol.com, stauffer@pacbell.net,
judy.logan.ace@artsfb.org.uk,
"donaldg.jr.lee"
<donlee@comp.uark.edu>,
pam@cherryvalley.com
In-Reply-To:
<970508231213_874932446@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Charles--
> I checked
the flashing words through the computers at school, and my director
> ordered a
program for the writing lab. I'm very
interested in the effects.
Great, isn't it?
I like to think of it as bringing the qualities of speech
or a movie to the
written word -- the Word is usually looked at as a huge
"chunk"
of data, but really when you make use of the Word -- when you read
-- you look at it
as moving pictures or as speech in time, from the
beginning in the
Garden of Eden to Watergate to now. This simply facilitates
the process via
computing machinery.
>Do you have
any further advice or developments or ideas.
You can check out
an article I wrote about it at
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/story/2220.html
-- there's a link in
the article to
MIT's David Small, who did some fascinating work in document
visualization
with the works of Shakespeare that is _definitely_ worth
checking out. The
immediate future of electronic texts, imho, will be along
these lines.
I think the
applet is great, but there's lots of room for improvement: the
scrollbars don't
seem to work properly, so you can't "rewind" or
"fast-forward"
a document, and -- worst of all -- you have to manaually
create an html
document with a reference to the applet and all the text you
want to read for
any given occassion. While I've done this for some texts
(like I'd
mentioned earlier I read a couple Burroughs texts out on the net
with this thing,
it was great), it certainly isn't practical for day-to-day
use. I believe
that a solution to this is fairly trivial, and am working on
it (in short,
creating a program that you reference via an URL, such at
http://mywebsite/myprogram
and pass it variable information about what text
you want to
display -- forinstance http://mywebsite/myprogram?howl or
http://mywebsite/myprogram?kaddish
and it will generate on-the-fly "virtual"
html documents
with your text in it). Am working on putting up the
manuscript of one
of my novels in this way -- when I do it I'll send ya the
url.
cheers,
m
Michael
Stutz |
DESIGN SCIENCE LABS
http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia,
Internet,
Linux/GNU bumper
stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux:
http://dsl.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:41:53 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Intro; Wm S Burroughs -Reply
Thomas Harberd
wrote:
>
> Burroughs is
great, obviously.
> It's just a
shame that his "best" (INHO) books are his least
> well known
ones: Western Lands and Ghost of Chance.
> I'm going to
be doing a course on the Beats next year - it
> seems odd
that the Burroughs work on the reading list is
> "Naked
Lunch", which is carefully calculated to put anyone
> off unless
they're particularly determined.
>
> Tom. H.
> "A Bear
of Very Little Brain"
>
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
i would think
some snips from Keroucian characterizations would be the
best starting
point, and Ginsberg's poem on method.
these seem easy to
incorporate on
reserve. i would also recommend showing
the video
documentary about
him b4 sinking them too quickly into the Lunch.
i
think you're
right that they'd lose more than they'd gain from diving
nakedly into
Lunch. it could turn them off
dramatically to such a
genius.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:41:26 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Brooklyn College Memorial for AG
Just a reminder
that the Brooklyn College Memorial for Allen Ginsberg
will take place
on Monday on the Upper Quad. If you plan
to attend,
remember to have
photo identification to show the security guard who
will issue you a
visitor's pass.Look forward to meeting any of you that
can make it. Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:14:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Philibin
<deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for Fall
> featuring
Garrison Keillor (!!??) and friends 'updating some classic OTR
> chapters for
a '90s audience. (PMWIP)
What ?!?!? Please say that this is a typo.... What kind of "changes"
are going to be
done? Who is the "Author" of
these so called Changes...
Is dean going to
be looking to score some crack? IMHO OTR
is already a
timeless piece of
literary excellence...
Is there any one we can write to to
inquire about such things? And maybe
protest against
the Changing of JKs words?
You just ruined my year...
-Bill
[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
|"A good
question is never answered. It is not a
bolt to be tightened
| into place but
a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the
| hope of
greening the landscape of idea."
|
|
-- John Ciardi
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:41:03 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
Well, quite so.
Hence my editorial comment. It's what the article says.
Presumably this
is one of Keillor's projects. I guess the Author's Guild are
behind it. I
think though that there's a limit to what you can 'change' of
someone's work
without permission from the estate, so I assume that this
whole event has
the blessing of the executor. Before long there'll be an
animated Saturday
morning Disneyfied On The Road with Jack and Neal and a
couple of cute
furry friends Driving Through Mythical America. Take a
rebellious
movement and commercialize it into something tame and cute and
nineties (leaving
out the dangerous stuff on the way of course), pay off the
survivors by
giving them Levis ads and of course lots of cash for the
undeserving
descendants. Pass the sick bag, Alice.
A bit cynical
today, sorry
Nick
>>
featuring Garrison Keillor (!!??) and friends 'updating some classic OTR
>> chapters
for a '90s audience. (PMWIP)
>
> What ?!?!? Please say that this is a typo.... What kind of "changes"
>are going to
be done? Who is the "Author"
of these so called Changes...
>Is dean going
to be looking to score some crack? IMHO
OTR is already a
>timeless
piece of literary excellence...
>
> Is there any one we can write to to
inquire about such things? And
maybe
>protest
against the Changing of JKs words?
>
> You just ruined my year...
>
> -Bill
>
>[ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
>|"A good
question is never answered. It is not a
bolt to be tightened
>| into place
but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the
>| hope of
greening the landscape of idea."
>|
>|
-- John Ciardi
>[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:56:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
In a message
dated 97-05-09 12:50:25 EDT, you write:
<< Before
long there'll be an
animated Saturday morning Disneyfied On The
Road with Jack and Neal and a
couple of cute furry friends Driving Through
Mythical America. Take a >>
There already was
a couple of cute friends (though not furry) driving through
America - a
rip-off of OTR's popularity - it was a TV show called "Route 66."
-
JW
WaterRow
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:58:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Sica
<s_rsica@PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubcribe
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:45:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
At 10:41 AM
5/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Well, quite
so. Hence my editorial comment. It's what the article says.
>Presumably
this is one of Keillor's projects. I guess the Author's Guild are
>behind it. I
think though that there's a limit to what you can 'change' of
>someone's
work without permission from the estate, so I assume that this
>whole event
has the blessing of the executor.
What is this
ultra-seriousness. A Lake Wobegone
version of OTR sounds like
a humourous type
of tribute. It is a measure of how well
known and regarded
and now classic
OTR has become (BTW, I actually am not any sort of fan of
keillor and the
Wobegone stuff).
>Before long
there'll be an
>animated
Saturday morning Disneyfied On The Road with Jack and Neal and a
>couple of
cute furry friends Driving Through Mythical America.
That sounds
great. I hope they do this. I'll watch.
>Take a
>rebellious
movement and commercialize it into something tame and cute and
>nineties
(leaving out the dangerous stuff on the way of course), pay off the
>survivors by
giving them Levis ads and of course lots of cash for the
>undeserving
descendants. Pass the sick bag, Alice.
>
Rebellious? Kerouac never was for rebellion. His books were not about
rebellion. He wanted to be in the in same tradition as
his forebears in
literature. He never had rebellion on his mind and the
ideas of the sixties
folk who claimed
"rebellion" didn't sit well with him.
Cassady was never
into rebellion either.
>A bit cynical
today, sorry
>
Sounds more like
starry eyed idealism than cyniism to me.
>Nick
>
Take it easy
dude.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:55:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Ginsberg's archive
Reply to Bill
Morgan: May 9, 1997
Sorry it's taken so long to get back.
You win: the poster was dated in
September, 1994, a month after
Ginsberg signed
the Stanford contract. It seems to me
that Allen's archive
was not on
deposit there yet, if I remember correctly?
Allen and I were in heavy discussions
from April of 1994 on, since
he was trying to
talk both me and Jan out of going public concerning the
estate
issue. At one point, I remember him
defending John Sampas, saying
that John had a
"right to shop around for the library that has the most
money to
offer," and saying he was doing that kind of thing himself--though
I don't think he
mentioned Stanford specifically.
Of course, as we now learn, Jeffrey
Weinberg had already done that
job for Sampas in
1991 and come up with the Bancroft.
I also remember a funny exchange
between me and Allen, where I told
Allen I had heard
a rumor that Sampas was checking out Japanese buyers,
because they have
so much cash, and Allen replied with his famous guilty
smirk,
half-laughing: "MAYBE I OUGHT TO DO THAT!"
Your revelation that it only took ONE
MONTH of heavy negotiation to
get the deal
concluded with Stanford throws further doubt on the credibility
of Mr. Sampas's
claim that it's taken him over six years just to begin a
deal with the New
York Public Library, a deal he reportedly needs another 17
years to finish
(what he told Allen).
Also, and you need to confirm this,
there was supposedly GOOD REASON
FOR ALLEN TO KEEP
HIS NEGOTIATIONS WITH STANFORD SECRET. I
heard on the
library grapevine
that Columbia University was truly pissed off with
GInsberg selling
the stuff to Stanford, because they thought he planned to
sell it to THEM.
As far as I know, Mr. Sampas has made
no such conflicting promises,
that would force
him to keep his library negotiations secret.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:55:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Le copertine dei libri di Jack Kerouac.
Cari amici beats,
il primo volume di "Sulla Strada"
l'ho acquistato
nel novembre
1969, sull'onda della recente scomparsa
dello scrittore.
Ne ho ancora la copia. La copertina
portava il
dipinto di alcune "donne di strada" offrendo
chiaramente
all'acquirente una falsa immagine del beat.
Poi un'altra copia l'ho comprata nel
1979, e in copertina
c'era due hippies
impegnati nel fumare, nel 1980 ho comperato
l'edizione
"penguins modern classics" the cover, designed
by Germano
Facetti, shows a detail from 'The Athlete's Dream'
by Larry Rivers, from
S.C. Johnson Collection.
La copia che ho acquistato nel 1995
porta in copertina
una bellissima
foto di wim wenders.
Faccio notare come JK for himself
painted a cover picture
for the 1th
edidiotn of OTR.
Le immagini (photos, paintings,
picture, movie, films) sono
parte essenziale
nella comunicazione e nel linguaggio,
saluti da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:06:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: A Question for G. Nicosia/not Estate
related!!
Hello Gerry,
Someone recently
passed on to me an extra copy of the Grove
Press Publication
of _Memory Babe_ (mine is
is disarray) and
as I was perusing this copy I noticed
that pgs 97-128
were missing. There has been no
tampering with
this copy (pages ripped out, etc.), as far
as I can tell
because there would be obvious signs
(the gap in the
binding). Was there problems w/
the orginal
publishing, or did I stumble upon a
misprint? Just curious.
Thanx,
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:21:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
Yeh, you're
right, i'm being over-serious today. It's only books, after all.
But Idon't know
about the rebellion bit. I think everyone goes a little
overboard about
the conservative Kerouac, and how much he hated the sixties
etc. At the time
the books were read as a challenge to society, to
contemporary
literary styles and moral values, and were thought of as
dangerous and
corrupting, wern't they? With hindsight, it's too easy to say
it was all
'within a tradition'. Sure, he was jumping off from Wolfe etc,
but surely he
*thought* he was being rebellious in his literary style, in
his religious
explorations, in his 'lifestyle' etc.
A society deals
with its rebels best by accomodating them into the
mainstream and
thereby taking the sting out of the tail. The word 'classic'
is one way of
doing this. I think the Beats really did have a sting, which
is why we're
still here yakking away about them.
Nick
>What is this
ultra-seriousness. A Lake Wobegone
version of OTR sounds like
>a humourous
type of tribute. It is a measure of how
well known and regarded
>and now
classic OTR has become (
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:29:20 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Clay Vaughan
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Literary History of the Beats
As another of the
books to be printed this year, does anyone have
any facts
relating to the supposed October publication of Allen
Ginsberg's
LITERARY HISTORY OF THE BEATS? It sounds like an autumn
flood of works
coming out of these publishing houses, and
HarperCollins has
price etc already set for this particular item.
Does anyone (eg.
Bill Morgan?) have the dope on the scope of this
book, say, is it
an honest to goodness history, a series of essays,
an anthology of
some sort?
Clay
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:33:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Rinaldo Rasa
May 9, 1997
I suggest we make Rinaldo Rasa Poet
Laureate of the Beat List. If
we don't save
Jack Kerouac's archive, his great cut-up poem of May 4 may be
the best thing to
come out of all these years of struggle.
Rinaldo, piacere di fare la vostra
conoscenza! Mio padre era
siciliano, non
ciprioto! Di quale parte d'italia lei
vene?
(Forgive my rusty Italian.)
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:54:44 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ron Guest
<rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac Street
Hoping someone in the Bay Area will
know this one. Saw Jack Kerouac
Street recently
in San Francisco. When was this street
named and who was
responsible? Was there some kind of ceremony? With
beats? Was Kerouac
family there? Or
did the city crew
just roll up and
put up a sign?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:18:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
At 12:21 PM
5/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Yeh, you're right,
i'm being over-serious today. It's only books, after all.
>But Idon't
know about the rebellion bit. I think everyone goes a little
>overboard
about the conservative Kerouac, and how much he hated the sixties
>etc. At the
time the books were read as a challenge to society, to
>contemporary
literary styles and moral values, and were thought of as
>dangerous and
corrupting, wern't they?
I think this is
true, my point is that this is not what kerouac intended and
was surprised by
this response.
You know, there
has been a lot of "rebel" or "revolutionary" literature
produced all over
the world.
It is usually
specious and boring.
Any revolutionary
nature of Kerouac's books didn't come from an attempt to
produce
revolutionary literature.
With hindsight, it's too easy to say
>it was all
'within a tradition'. Sure, he was jumping off from Wolfe etc,
>but surely he
*thought* he was being rebellious in his literary style, in
>his religious
explorations, in his 'lifestyle' etc.
>
>A society
deals with its rebels best by accomodating them into the
>mainstream
and thereby taking the sting out of the tail. The word 'classic'
>is one way of
doing this. I think the Beats really did have a sting, which
>is why we're
still here yakking away about them.
>
>Nick
>
>
>>What is
this ultra-seriousness. A Lake Wobegone
version of OTR sounds like
>>a
humourous type of tribute. It is a
measure of how well known and regarded
>>and now
classic OTR has become (
>**************************************************************************
>*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
>It's better
to die on your feet than to live on your knees
>
>Nick
Weir-Williams
>Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
>President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
>List Manager,
chipub listserv
>
>ph: 847 491 8114
>fax: 847 491
8150
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:15:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: exploding text complete/fairly long
Dearest
listmembers, here it is completed. I
hope you like it. I thought
it came out to be
quite a nice tribute. Below is intro to
hardcopy I will
be creating for
Saturday and following, the text itself.
I am truly looking
forward to
reading/performing this for the L.A. crowd, I hear the phone is
ringing alot re
the tribute, got pick of the week in The L.A. Weekly. The
show is a bit top
heavy with 25 performers and an open to follow.
They are
talking about
rigging sound for the outside lawn for those that either can't
pay to get in or
just couldn't get in because of room. If
you know of
anyone coming,
tell them to say that they are poets and I believe there is a
discount. It's ten bucks at the door with student,
artist and senior
discount
rates. The money is for buying Allen's
books for the Beyond
Baroque
library/store.
all the best
xxxooo
s.a.
*******************************
TO: Bill Gargan &
"BEAT-L:
Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Readers of
artifact in hand &
Howl To The Bard
: Cut & Paste
While four
wheeling city of angels I was brain
storming with
wind and rain and this here flash :
I am on Internet
Beat List.
I am to be a part
of Allen Ginsberg tribute
May 10th at
Beyond Baroque in Venice, Ca.
In the tradition
of those we talk about, think
about and look to
here on said list I will alter/add
to Ginsberg's
piece "On Burroughs Work"
then e-mail to
whomever wishes to participate
by
altering/adding then send it back and so
on
via backmail to
me until it is "finished" or the week
is up. It is imperative that whomever jumps onto
this trip work
fast. Not much time to think about it,
and in the rules
of J.K.'s spontaneous writing, it's
what works
best. I will take the completed project
with me to tribute
and read/perform it for folks there.
I wanted netusers
to come with me on my adventure :
The Twisted Caddy
gassed up and ready to roll down
international
superhighway of starry night singalong
where comets burn
in wake of gas, coffee and words
as together we do
it all and gather freely in nets of
language.
I thought that
this was a creative way to approach
this in the
spirit of Allen and The Beats. Bring it
into the present
and out of the clambake of nostalgia
by launching him
into strange new gravity of
cyberspace holy.
xxxooo
S.A. Griffin
Thanks to Mike
Bruner, Olly Ruff, David Rhaesa, Derek Beaulieu, Marie
Countryman,
Michael Stutz & James Stauffer for their words to the wise guy.
Thanks to Jersey
girl librarian Lorraine Perrotta who makes everything possible.
Exploding text from original by Allen
Ginsberg:
Altered/added to by S.A. Griffin, Mike Bruner,
Olly Ruff, David Rhaesa, Derek Beaulieu,
Marie Countryman, Michael Stutz, & James Stauffer
****************************************************
On the Work of Burroughs
The method must be purest meat
of sharktalk, spoor
straight no chaser: at every bitter end
people leave and you're left
of center
of norm
of sexuality & spirituality
of soul & truth
Madness unadorned.
Real not allegorical & it's
all like it was
before :
William's Red Wheelbarrow you
Must have seen in
Patterson w/Blake
old and empty like the room before they
came
take that first step again ; down an
even darker road
into what's been bothering you, swallow
heads and tails whole
& yes,
it feels
as
tho the vortex has opened
becoming
Dorothy &
Burroughs
is the
Great Oz with
toy
balloon
Toto a 1,000 Cosmic Cats
staring at millennium
change
& there are currents in the air as
Cats inhale Bop Poetics
breeething deeply the air of
supermarkets & streets
where you
chose to radiate peace
. . . perhaps it's time again for
revolution
classless
empty without form
peaceful Dharma Lion gait I see
you walk in
Mind's Eye
see you walk and wonder what you'd
say to this today?
I could never answer but it is all
here
house full of machinery that I
angelheaded hipster
strove to search for starry wonder in
mechanical Indra's Net all night
and now it's all in synch. . .
dead forgotten timezone airwaves : we
communicate freely over
endless Kansas wheatfields
& tenement lower east side apts &
diners & poisonous tomatoes
of yr mother's
holy kaddish
and no symbolic dressing,
actual visions
&
actual prisons of imaginary dungeons
and not yet from a distance as
surrounded by you now
as seen then and now.
"dreaming of a
key..."
inside the dream
machines
we become
anti-temporal-recordings
that
twist past the
prerecorded
universe
that
begins
and ends
with one
or two midwest
Kansas
synapses ...
Prisons of psychic abstractions and
visions presented as
sheet lightning filmset backdrops
in all the cracks of sidewalk
& in the leaves of grass
which are now rising from their
long winter sleep beneath the melting
snow
with rare descriptions
corresponding exactly to those
of Alcatraz and Apocalypse Rose...
(with no Clint Eastwood style
hollywood
escape/ing the words of yr
holy moods)
Stopping for refills of gas and coffee and
love
counting virtual billboards
between
mirages on life's superhighway
where we face the information
& sort thru the confusion &
information overload for the last gem
of truth
looking in every wingmirror wanting
for something not so real
- catching a glimpse
of the selfsame prisons. but :-
prisons without bars are holy like
skin is holy
baseball holy
internet holy
time holy
kiss of ages holy
holy
& where does yr beard
point tonight old grey beard?
& who do you walk with arm in
arm?
I write and pray straight stiff back out
toward Heaven
the thoughts that make my mind and make me
feast on
naked lunch of Purest meat
Cholesterol and all.
Not even
Kosher..
A naked lunch is natural to us,
we eat reality sandwiches.
But allegories are so much lettuce.
& I'm still here
with you in
Rockland. Eating the
sandwich you tried to teach
me to make.
& now we look to the ways in which the
words do it all
on this beautifully sad adventure we
imagine
we are
having.
they run faster and crueler
than whatever finger typed them
and sometimes we get the
feeling that we
should erase the tape
and start the
whole damned show over
again
now &
now
& now
flip the tape & continue
: side two
they are not things that
could feasibly be used
for your own purpose ; you are
trying to unlock them
or else use them to unlock things
and sometimes you yourself are
the thing unlocked.
We gaze at wide mad wonder
of life,
love of life,
love of last long-gone
dewdrop mad prison of this
world as heady
Indian angel visitations in a million
moments of
dreaming for love of life found in
holy visions of summer
you know i was
thinking
the other day in the Dillon's
down on
Massachusetts Avenue
and i decided
that the locks were always
just a dream
and i was
glad that
i spent time with such
a good and
dear friend
as
Allen Ginsberg
when I first met you and
fell in love with yr
holy soul jelly
roll,
grateful for our
friendship
and only
hope that I
can face the remaining dream
of life
with the rest of the
living
until that day
when
the Western Lands are opened by an
angry big mouth tornado in a
hurry cane tin pan
alley
and we all
honeymoon together in
the abyssinian
wheatfields
of
eternity.
poets holy :
tell me
which way yr
love points Allen
denver sf ny kyoto czech & shared
beard of cuba
tonite in the perfume of
yr passion yet to
spend
dollars of soulmatra heart coin
to the cia fbi & raygun
dollars of bomb
stars
breath
expand with
music
exponential
exponent tail
of heartbeat
holy
hear ear & heart of sacred cock
& cunt
chest
holy
asshole holy
heart of mind holy I
hear you
In the sf waves and Erie shore
Ferlinghetti waves of Allen,
waves of lakes and waves
of heart,
I hear you call :
Are you my angel?
I hear what you say and I now write
to the world to do it:
rise up! rise up! and claim
this world!
radiate one thousand years in peacedance of
heaven earthbound childhood
visions
holy!
holy!
holy!
Don't hide the madness.
A word to the wise guy.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:17:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
In-Reply-To:
<9705091215.aa25394@buffnet1.buffnet.net>
granted i don'
t like the idea
either of rewriting his prose, but my suggestion of what
to be done is --
if you dont like it ignore it! i mean, organize a
PROTEST?! ARE YOU
KIDDING ME?
Eric
On Fri, 9 May
1997, Bill Philibin wrote:
> >
featuring Garrison Keillor (!!??) and friends 'updating some classic OTR
> >
chapters for a '90s audience. (PMWIP)
>
> What ?!?!? Please say that this is a typo.... What kind of
"changes"
> are going to
be done? Who is the "Author"
of these so called Changes...
> Is dean
going to be looking to score some crack?
IMHO OTR is already a
> timeless
piece of literary excellence...
>
> Is there any one we can write to to
inquire about such things? And
maybe
> protest
against the Changing of JKs words?
>
> You just ruined my year...
>
> -Bill
>
> [ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
> |"A
good question is never answered. It is
not a bolt to be tightened
> | into place
but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the
> | hope of
greening the landscape of idea."
> |
> | --
John Ciardi
> [--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:23:00 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: S.Marco Place - venerdi' 9 maggio 1997,
Venezia.
Otto uomini=20
e un solo fucile
VENEZIA - E'
stato confermato che sono otto gli uomini del commando di
Piazza San Marco.
Sono Fausto Faccia, Flavio Contin, Moreno Nemini, Cristian
Contin, Gilberto
Buron, Luca Peroni, Andrea Viviani, Antonio Barison. I
carabinieri hanno
inoltre confermato che il commando era armato di un solo
fucile
"Mab" con due serbatoi e complessivamente 70 colpi. Inoltre il
commando era in
possesso di una attrezzatura idonea a interferire sulle
frequenze
radio-televisive.=20
Andrea Viviani,
26 anni, di Colognola ai Colli (Verona), Fausto Faccia, 30,
di Agna (Padova),
Cristian Contin, 23, e lo zio Flavio Contin, 55, entrambi
di Urbana
(Padova) sono gi=E0 stati indagati dalla Procura della Repubblica=
di
Verona. Non erano
entrati nell'inchiesta del giudice Papalia Moreno Menini,
di 20 anni di
Tregnago (Verona); Luca Peroni, di 28 anni di Zevio (Verona);
Antonio Barison,
di 41 anni di Conselve (Padova); e Gilberto Buson, di 46
anni di Pernumia
(Padova).=20
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:24:59 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: La Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia.
1797-1997
Commando
"indipendentista"=20
occupa San Marco:
tutti arrestati
<Picture>VENEZIA
- Un commando di "indipendentisti" ha occupato questa notte
il campanile di
San Marco proclamando l'indipendenza del Veneto.
L'intervento di
agenti speciali dei carabinieri ha concluso il "blitz" e
portato in
carcere i componenti del gruppo, otto persone, che si sono
dichiarati
prigionieri politici. Uno degli arrestati, Antonio Barison, 41
anni, di Conselve
(Padova), si =E8 sentito male dopo essere stato condotto
nella caserma
dei=20
carabinieri, dove
sarebbe stato chiesto l'intervento di un tenente medico.
Successivamente
Barison =E8 stato ricoverato nel reparto di rianimazione
dell'ospedale
civile di Venezia, dove =E8 piantonato da alcuni agenti di
polizia. La
direzione sanitaria e i medici mantengono il massimo riserbo sia
sulla diagnosi
sia sulle condizioni di salute del=20
paziente.
L'attacco era
cominciato questa notte all'una con il sequestro di un
traghetto, dal
quale =E8 sbarcato con un mezzo anfibio militare e un=
pulmino.
Sul campanile
"occupato" =E8 stata innalzata la bandiera di San Marco=
definita
del Veneto
Serenissimo Governo. L'azione dovrebbe essere partita dal Lido di
Venezia.=20
Il commando ha
costretto il comandante del traghetto a trasportare un camion
con rimorchio,
nel quale era celato il mezzo militare con due bocche da
fuoco,
probabilmente di fabricazione straniera, con la sigla VTMB07. Il
commando ha
"occupato" quindi Piazza San Marco. Alcuni incursori, che si
presume armati,
sono rimasti dentro il mezzo militare, altri si sono recati
nel campanile per
innalzare il vessillo. Gli incursori si sono dichiarati al
comandante del
traghetto delle linee di navigazione interno dicendo: "Questa
=E8 una azione
militare". Subito sono affluiti sul posto ingenti forze di
polizia,
carabinieri e Guardia di Finanza.=20
Alle 6,30 gli
incursori hanno trasmesso il primo comunicato diramato su
Raiuno con una
interferenza piratesca, sul tipo delle altre interferenze
(nove fino alle
ultime di Belluno e Verona), compiute sui telegiornali
nazionali. Il
comunicato dice: "Parliamo a nome del Serenissimo governo e
comunichiamo ai
veneti che dopo 200 anni questa notte su ordine del Veneto
Serenissimo
Governo un reparto regolare della Veneta Serenissima Armata ha
liberato Piazza
S. Marco. Oggi rinasce la Veneta Serenissima Repubblica che
riprende a
vincere perch=E9 noi l'abbiamo dotata della nostra incrollabile
fede affinch=E9
essa viva". Il comunicato conclude con "Viva S.
Marco".=20
L'azione =E8
stata compiuta alla vigilia delle celebrazioni del Bicentenario
della Serenissima
che avranno luogo domenica, organizzate dalla Lega, e=
luned=EC,
promosse dalla
regione Veneto. Domani, inoltre, Piazza S. Marco ospiter=E0=
il
giuramento
solenne delle truppe anfibie lagunari eredi dei fanti da Mar
della
Serenissima.
Dopo l'arrivo
delle autorit=E0 un giovane incursone, con il volto bendato,=
ha
parlato con le
forze dell'ordine, dicendo che sono determinati ed agiranno
se minacciati:
"Non vogliamo creare disordini", ha aggiunto. Il commando si
considera
appartenente
alla "Forza
regolare della Serenissima armata". Il giovane si mostrava
nervoso e
concitato. Al comandante del traghetto
avevano
dichiarato "questa =E8 una azione di guerra". Il mezzo blindato
impiegato =E8
vecchio e di probabile fabbricazione
straniera. Il
pulmino =E8 probabilmente lo stesso utilizzato per le
interferenze
televisive, a bordo ci sarebbe infatti l'apparecchiatura che ha
consentito
stamane la diramazione del comunicato sul Tg1 delle 6,30. Quando
hanno compiuto
l'incursione, Piazza San Marco era pressoch=E9 deserta.=
Subito
si =E8 affollata
di forze dell'ordine ed =E8 stata sorvolata anche da un
elicottero della
Guardia di Finanza.
Il procuratore
della Repubblica Smitti ha sottolineato che "ci sono
certamente
reati" e si =E8 chiesto
come tanti altri
se vale la pena fare una cosa del genere.
"Come primo
giudizio si pu=F2 dire che =E8 una cosa folle, ma =E8
una cosa folle
organizzata sul posto apparentemente con armi,
quindi
estremamente seria". L'accesso a Piazza S. Marco =E8
stato bloccato
dalle forze dell'ordine che vi hanno creato un cordone.
Pi=F9 tardi
agenti dei corpi speciali armati dei carabinieri (Gis) sono=
saliti
sul campanile da
una scala telescopica e sono entrati nell'edificio. Secondo
Smitti l'azione
=E8 stata decisa dopo che era fallito qualsiasi tentativo di
trattativa.
"Ci auguriamo - ha detto Smitti - che non sia necessario il
ricorso alle
armi".
Secondo alcune
testimonianze all'interno del campanile sono stati sparati
alcuni
lacrimogeni ma nessun colpo di arma=20
da fuoco. Alcuni
componenti del commando sono stati bloccati=20
dagli agenti dei
corpi speciali e sono stati visti uscire dal=20
campanile
scortati dalle forze dell'ordine.
I componenti del
commando sono stati tutti arrestati. Vengono loro
contestati fra
l'altro i reati di associazione sovversiva, banda armata,
sequestro di
persona.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:25:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: Rinaldo Rasa
In-Reply-To:
<199705091833.LAA23533@iceland.it.earthlink.net>
hello,
could anybody
send me a copy of this mentioned piece if they have it
saved. i was on a
Beat-l sabbatical so missed the past few weeks list
events. this and
or or anything else of interested would be appreciated.
thnks,
Eric
On Fri, 9 May
1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> May 9,
1997
>
> I suggest we make Rinaldo Rasa Poet
Laureate of the Beat List. If
> we don't
save Jack Kerouac's archive, his great cut-up poem of May 4 may be
> the best
thing to come out of all these years of struggle.
> Rinaldo, piacere di fare la vostra
conoscenza! Mio padre era
> siciliano,
non ciprioto! Di quale parte d'italia
lei vene?
> (Forgive my rusty Italian.)
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:45:50 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Today in Venice.
09-MAG-97 07:44
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S ST
MARK'S OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - Venice's St Mark's
square was sealed
off by police
this morning after a group of five or six people
believed to be
armed occupied the belltower where they unfurled
the flag of the
old Republic of Venice.
The group reportedly reached Tronchetto,
on the mainland,
shortly after
midnight aboard two vehicles. There they
commandeered a
ferry with a small number of passengers aboard
and ordered the
captain to take them and their vehicles to the
St Mark's stop.
Witnesses said the men in the group were
wearing camouflage
fatigues and
carrying machine-guns and pistols which may or may
not be real
weapons. One of the vehicles they were driving was
described as a
camper and the other as having the appearance of
an armored troop
carried.
Early this morning, a weak radio signal
broadcast from the
top of the
belltower cut in on local public radio broadcasting
with the message,
delivered in a heavy Venetian accent, that the
St Mark's
belltower had been occupied by the ''serenissimo''
government, the
government of the old Republic of Venice.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 08:34
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S ST
MARK'S OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (2)
Venice police chief Umberto Cernetig and
the provincial
Carabinieri
police commander, Emilio Borghini, later approached
the troop carrier
where they were told, by a masked man in
fatigues that the
group was awaiting the arrival of the
''ambassador of
the Republic of Venice''.
May 12 marks the 200th anniversary of the
demise of the
republic which
came under foreign domination for the first time
when Venice was
occupied by French troops in 1797.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 08:34
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S ST
MARK'S OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (3)
Later in the morning, the six or seven
people who had been
occupying the
belltower were flushed out by members of a special
Carabinieri
police unit. These special agents erected a
telescopic ladder
on the side of the belltower which they
climbed to gain
entry. Inside, they apparently used teargas.
Also taken into custody were two men from
inside the
separatists'
camper and another two inside the armored troop
carrier.
On the scene, a Finance Police lieutenant
colonel said the
Carabinieri
police were still conducting a sweep of the inside
of the belltower
and that no gunshots had been heard.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 09:00
NNN
GEN: ST. MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (4)
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - A total of eight
members of the
self-styled
'Government of the Republic of Venice' were taken
into custody by
the end of the operation in St Mark's square and
belltower.
A
close inspection of the vehicle described as an armored
troop carrier
disclosed that it was a van assembled out of old
body panels over
three axles and eight wheels. The other vehicle
involved, the
camper, was found to contain leaflets and other
documents plus
radio transmitters.
During the operation, police found two
machine-guns, a Mab
and a Stern,
which may or may not have been in working order.
Venice Mayor Massimo Cacciari, on the
scene, thanked the
crack Carabinieri
unit for the assault on the belltower and
reported that he
had learned of the occupation of the monument
only in the
morning because his telephone answering machine was
broken.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 10:31
NNN
GEN: ST. MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS (5)
Northern League leader Umberto Bossi, who
staged a three-
day march along
the Po River in September last year to declare
the
''independence of the Padania'', said today's actions were
''crazy, stuff to
be laughed at. I saw it on Tv this morning. It
was something
unreal and spectacular at the same time,'' said
the MP who
secessionist talk has been muted thus far this year.
An assistant public prosecutor put in
charge of the case,
Rita Ugolini,
said she would hold a press conference at noon
(local).
(END).
GY
09-MAG-97 10:31
NNN
GEN: ST MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS... FIRST ADD
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - As the occupation
of the St Mark's
belltower was
scaled back from an armed assault in the historic
square to a
spectacular demonstration, Defense Minister
Beniamino
Andreatta in Rome lavished praise on the GIS, the
Carabinieri rapid
intervention unit.
These men, said Andreatta in Rome,
''planned, organized and
carried out the
operation'' which came as an ''effective
demonstration
that the national community can always count on
the
professionalism and steady reliability of the Carabinieri.''
The GIS commanding officer told Ansa in
Venice that the
unit was alerted
at 0130 today (2330 gmt Thursday) and reached
Venice from
Livorno, on the north-central Tyrrhenian, two-and-
a-half hours
later, aboard an Air Force plane.
The Carabinieri policemen brought with
them an 'assault'
Range Rover
equipped with a sliding roof from which a ladder can
be extended to a
height of ten meters. After sharpshooters took
up positions
around the square and the electricity had been cut,
three groups
moved into action, one at the base of the
belltower, one
which stormed the tower loggia off the Range
Rover ladder and
another which climbed scaffolding set up around
the monument for
restoration work.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 13:30
NNN
GEN: ST MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS... FIRST ADD (2)
The entire operation, said the GIS
commander, lasted no
longer than seven
or eight minutes. Six of the eight men taken
into custody were
inside the belltower, where a MAB machine-gun
with 30 shells in
the clip was found, and two were taken from
the mock-up of an
armored personnel carrier.
The separatists had brought food and
drink, including wine,
with them into
the belltower indicating they planned to hold out
for some time.
The Carabinieri police also came across a small
generator the men
could have used to illuminate the belltower
and power their
radio transmitter.
The GIS commander said today's operation
was less difficult
that one
completed recently in the southern Adriatic port city
of Barletta where
four armed robbers, who had shot a Carabinieri
policeman to
death and wounded another one, were holed up with
the wife and
14-year-old son of one of the gang.
The four men captured, without firing a
shot, were fully
armed and had
hand grenades.
The eight separatist demonstrators now in
custody in Venice
could be charged
with subversive association, forming an armed
band, illegal
possession of firearms, assault on national
integrity and
kidnapping for subversive purposes.
(MORE).
GY
09-MAG-97 13:30
NNN
GEN: ST MARK'S
SQUARE OCCUPIED BY SEPARATISTS... FIRST ADD (3)
These charges were named here by
Carabinieri Captain Angelo
Iannone who noted
that the magistrate in charge of the case will
have the job of
filing the charges.
The kidnap count could refer to the
captain of the ferry
used by the separatists,
Giovanni Girotto, and passengers aboard
the boat making
its closing trip of the day up the Grand Canal
with departure
from the Tronchetto stop at 0020 (2220 gmt
Thursday).
Girotto reported that the men appeared
determined, were
using two-day
radios ''and did not seem particularly prepared
militarily
because they paid their fares before boarding.'' He
said they arrived
with a white camper and a truck-trailer towing
the mock-up
personnel carrier under a tarp.
The captain said neither he nor his
passengers paid special
attention to the
vehicle which appeared armored or the fact that
the men were
wearing camouflage fatigues ''because we often have
military vehicles
aboard.''
Girotto also said that when the men left
the ferry they
abandoned the
truck they had been used to tow the military-
looking vehicle
saying, ''You can give it to Scalfaro,'' Head of
State Oscar Luigi
Scalfaro.
Summing up the experience, the ferry boat
captain said the
men who went on
to occupy the square and belltower were ''crazy
guys who believe
people think like they do.'' (END).
GY
09-MAG-97 13:30
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S
ST.MARK'S OCCUPIED BY TERRORISTS...SECOND ADD
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - The eight
separatist activists
were later
revealed to have been behind recent pirate radio
transmissions
which jammed public TV broadcasts in the Veneto
with separatist
messages.
Interior Ministry Undersecretary Nicola
Sinisi said police
had been on the
trail of the jammers for weeks, and located them
two days ago.
Searches were carried out yesterday at the
homes of five of
the gang, but
they had already left for Venice.
The pirate radio transmitters were located
in the towns of
Belluno and
Verona.
Five of those arrested are from country
towns near Padua,
and three are
from villages near Verona.
Correcting earlier reports, police said
the gang was armed
with a single MAB
machine-gun with two magazines totalling 70
rounds.
The separatists also had equipment for
jamming radio and TV
signals.
Sinisi, who flew in to Venice today with
Deputy Premier
Walter Veltroni,
said the police response to the gang might
serve as warning
to ''those tempted to imitate them.''
(MORE).
GEE
09-MAG-97 16:37
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S
ST.MARK'S OCCUPIED BY TERRORISTS...SECOND ADD (2)
He said the police action had shown that
recent separatist
rumblings had not
been under-estimated, but today's incident
could mean the
police guard might have to be raised further.
In Rome, a majority of political reactions
called for swift
action to grant
more autonomy to local governments in the north,
but some, like
opposition leader Silvio Berlusconi, blamed
Bossi's
secessionist rhetoric for whipping up passions.
Berlusconi said the end result was that
''the less strong,
the less
intelligent, the most exposed'' would end up paying for
Bossi's
''propaganda.''
Leading members of the Northern League
described the
incident as
''halfway between a schoolboy prank and violent
intimidation,''
while one of the founders of the Venetian
separatist Liga
Veneta said the gang's action was
''understandable,
but not to be endorsed.''
Members of the leftwing PDS party called
for a
''mobilisation''
against secession, while PDS leader Massimo
D'Alema called on
Bossi to come back to the table of the
institutional
reform talks D'Alema is chairing.
(MORE).
GEE
09-MAG-97 16:37
NNN
GEN: VENICE'S
ST.MARK'S OCCUPIED BY TERRORISTS...SECOND ADD (3)
Bossi stalked out of the talks when they
were set up,
declaring that he
would have no truck with Rome political
''horse-trading.''
In other reactions, Green party MP Marco
Boato recalled
that Italy's
terrorism in the 70s and 80s, whether on the right
or left, grew out
of such ''symbolic and '' incidents
as today's.
(END).
RED
09-MAG-97 17:45
NNN
GEN: COMMUNIQUE
DEMANDS RELEASE OF VENICE ACTIVISTS
(ANSA) - Venice, May 9 - A leaflet
demanding the release of
the eight
separatist activists who occupied the bell tower in St
Mark's square in
Venice early today was sent to the Ansa offices
in Rome today.
The message said that if the eight were
not released within
48 hours ''we
will respond to the violence of the Italian
occupiers in such
a way as to discourage any other attempt to
violate our
rights.''
The note was handed to magistrates
investigating this
morning's
assault, who said they could not exclude the
possibility that
it was genuine.
If so it was a cause of concern since it
suggested that
there was a
larger organization behind the eight men.
The message accused the authorities of
beating the eight
activists and
putting them in isolation cells.
PAR
09-MAG-97 21:32
NNN
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:46:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CORNIX applet
Comments: To:
stutz@dsl.org
In a message
dated 97-05-09 11:35:00 EDT, you write:
<< the Word
is usually looked at as a huge
"chunk" of data, but really when you
make use of the Word -- when you read
-- you look at it as moving pictures or as
speech in time, >>
Mike:
As an English
comp instructor for many years, from an academic point of view,
the chunking of
ideas into syntatic sequences is the accepted pedagogy, but
maybe we've been
wrong or maybe digital is as digital does or maybe we need
to get back to
the Word. Like I said growing up trying to get through New
Jersey is a
series of flashing signs, signals and symbols. Chunking sounds
better but who
knows what's in store. A lot of students are fidgetal if not
digital with nary
a thread to the past.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:03:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
In a message
dated 97-05-09 12:50:25 EDT, you write:
<< Pass the
sick bag, Alice >>
Yes, and I never
got car sick from being on the road. I've always had the
uneasy notion
that Garrison Keilor would take over all of American
literature. It's
something like Quayle being the quintessential American.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:08:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
In-Reply-To:
<970509180114_220008524@emout13.mail.aol.com>
What's everyone
got against Garrison Keillor??
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:36:20 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Rinaldo Rasa
Gerry Nicosia
wrote:
> May 9,
1997
>
> I suggest we make Rinaldo Rasa Poet
Laureate of the Beat List. If
>we don't save
Jack Kerouac's archive, his great cut-up poem of May 4 may be
>the best
thing to come out of all these years of struggle.
> Rinaldo, piacere di fare la vostra
conoscenza! Mio padre era
>siciliano,
non ciprioto! Di quale parte d'italia
lei vene?
> (Forgive my rusty Italian.)
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
Ciao Gerry,
i miei migliori
amici sono calabresi e baresi, sono proprio
dalle tue parti.
Sono ONORATO della Laurea di Poeta Beat che
tu proponi per la
mia modesta partecipazione alla lista beat.
Ti ringrazio con
affetto, e riconoscenza. Io abito a Venezia,
nella parte
moderna, ma vicinissima al centro storico, appena
prima del Ponte
della Liberta'. Come ogni buon italiano anch'io
ho avuto e ho
parenti per il mondo, in Canada, SouthAfrica,
Svizzera, et
cetera. Da quando scrivo sulla Beat-List pero' di
italiani ne ho
visti pochi, chissa' perche'? My today venice
post is assuming
that the "happening" or countercultural, or
ethnic event in
Piazza San Marco is a feedback 'bout some
changin' in
italian feeling of the things, the guys involved
in such
"happening" (read please the ANSA report) are really people
that came from
the land, the plane land of our italy, people
not lit or
politicians... are them beat?
Hai nostalgia
dell'Italia? e della Sicilia?
ti saluta con
affetto il tuo "paesano" Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:44:36 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
>I am pleased
with all the reviews. My only claim was to be a "Hobohemian"
writer, a
>word that I
invented. Dr. Sax is a great book by a great writer.
>Charles
Plymell
Charles-- May 9, 1997
As someone who's done a fair amount of
Kerouac lit. criticism I'm
astonished by
your grasp of DR SAX. What you say is
not only solid
criticism but
it's also fun to read. You ought to be
pouring out stuff like
this in some
regular column in a cutting-edge literary magazine (if there
are any
today--maybe EXQUISITE CORPSE?) I
remember your old COLD SPRING
JOURNAL. (Do I have the title right?--memory going in
old age). Then your
stuff ought to be
collected in a book of living first-person lit. criticism
as opposed to
most of the dead 3rd-person academic stuff that gets published
regularly and
kills rather than whets young people's interest.
Maybe work it all into a memoir of
where you are now, what your new
literary insights
are. I say all this not having read Last
of the
Moccasins--I'm
deprived. I'll try to find it in our
used-book shops.
Thanks for your insights.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:08:29 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone [OFF TOPIC NON-BEAT]
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.94.970508210411.19364B-100000@seka.nacs.net>
On Thu, 8 May
1997, Michael Stutz wrote:
> on about how
much they "supported" sampling is what made this whole event so
> perverse in
my eyes -- it made Bono and friends look like the depraved
> protagonist
of Bret Easton Ellis' _American Psycho_, playing in his own
> scat.
Mind you, the
only moment approaching a quote human unquote kind of
epiphany that the
protagonist of American Psycho ever had was at a U2
concert... layers
within layers there. (When I say "human", I mean
actually alive
human) ; and it didn't last long.
Negativland
probably represent the most striking success of U2's total
image makeover...
I think U2 may have assimilated some ideas from the
people who
sampled them, which at least makes for two-way trade. In
theory, anyhow.
Well, history always was written by the winners...
Olly R.
____________________________________________________________________
"If I had a gun... I would give
you your freedom."
____________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:13:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "V.J. Eaton"
<vj@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Street
Yr going to get
bombed w/ replies probably, but in case not, here's the
skinny. You can thank the SF Board of Supervisors and
the provoking hand of
Ferlinghetti. Kerouac Street nee Adler Alley was renamed in
ceremony
October 1988.
It's all recounted in *Names of 12 SF Streets Changed to Honor
Authors &
Artists* publ City Lights, 1989.
> Hoping someone in the Bay Area will
know this one. Saw Jack Kerouac
>Street
recently in San Francisco. When was this
street named and who was
>responsible? Was there some kind of ceremony? With
beats? Was Kerouac
>family there?
Or did the city crew
>just roll up
and put up a sign?
>
>
\\|//
(o o)
-------------oOO--(
)--OOo----------------
| My opinions and
those
vj@primenet.com | of my employer are
Tempe, AZ | usually different,
| for which my mother
| apologizes.
------------ooooO---Ooooo---------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:41:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Where I am, Mr. Tabory
Dear Leon: May 9, 1997
It's understandable you are missing
something; this whole thing has
grown ghastly
complex after three and a half years of intense legal battles
moving from city
to city across the United States.
I hardly said I don't act from a moral
basis. My primary motivation
is moral; it sure
as hell isn't financial, unless you (and Rod Anstee) can
figure out some
benefit in losing money, which is all I've been doing lately.
Here's the thing. Mr. John Lash, Jan Kerouac's heir, working
closely with Mr. John
Sampas, has taken his case to get me thrown out as Jan
Kerouac's
literary executor to the appellate court in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
I cannot fight
for Jack Kerouac's archive in Florida until that very same
Santa Fe court
gives me the green light. That court may
very well turn on a
red light, and my
quest to save Jack Kerouac's archive will be over, finito,
gone, daddy.
Right now, I cannot do anything that
Mr. Lash can use as ammunition
in Santa Fe, to
show that I am less than competent as Ms. Kerouac's literary
executor. He'd love to tell the court that I have given
away Ms. Kerouac's
last unpublished
novel, which could have brought him X amount of dollars.
Once the Santa Fe court rules--and if
they rule that I alone am
responsible for
Jan's literary property--I will have a much freer hand in
getting her work
published, getting her papers into a library, etc.
I.e., A WHOLE LOT is riding right now
with the three-judge appellate
panel in Santa
Fe.
Mr. Sampas has no such legal
entanglements to deal with. He is an
heir as well as
an executor and cannot be tossed out in the cold the way I
potentially can
be. Jan did not make me her heir, and I
did not want her
to. (At one point she talked about paying me for
the 1000's of hours of
work I had done
in her behalf, and I told her that the only way I could
prove the
sincerity of my efforts to help her save her father's papers was
if I simply
helped her as a friend. My favorite line
to her was: "If you
win in Florida,
buy me a dinner." However, the way
Mr. Anstee talks, you'd
think she had
left me half her estate.)
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 20:05:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Patti Smith Concert Posters
Dear Nancy:
Yes -- re: the
concert posters. Send info re:
arrangements when posters are
available.
Thanks,
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:12:04 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
Why, Nicosia, didn't you make it clear to
Levi in the
>beginning why
you asked him to remove the excerpt? It
seems obvious to me
>why Levi was
befuddled by you. I can almost bet that
had you conducted
>yourself with
a bit more tact, Levi would be one of your champions....
> I think it comes down to this: Be
consistent, dammit!
>
>Bruce
>bwhartmanjr@iname.com
>
Dear Bruce
Hartman: May 9, 1997
I don't know where you're coming from,
and I will give you the
benefit of the
doubt and suppose that you are just being misled by someone
who has found it
in their interest to slander me. In this
case, I really
don't know where
the lie originated.
The fact is: I wrote to Levi Asher on
July 27, 1996, explaining why
I couldn't let
him print PARROT FEVER for free. I have
a copy of the letter
in my files. I'll send you the whole thing if you need to
hold it in your
hands to believe
it. Here are some excerpts of what I
wrote to Levi:
"I have talked the matter over
with Jan's heirs, and their feeling
is that there
should be payment for use of this piece.
It is a substantial
piece--I figured
about 6,400 words ... you have to understand, that it's one
thing to charge a
nominal fee for anthologizing work that has been published
a relatively long
time ago, and from which most commercial interest has
already been
exploited; and quite another thing to let you have use of
material from a
last unpublished novel ... I must, of course, insist that
you no longer run
the piece on the Web ... I hope this hasn't struck you as
too hard a
position, but it's part of my legally mandated job as literary
executor to
protect the commercial rights of Jan Kerouac's heirs in her
literary
properties. I'm certainly open to
talking more about this with
you, if you need
to. I'm also enclosing my piece about
Jan, which you can
use on your
Website."
Bear in mind, I said all this BEFORE
MR. LASH (JAN'S HEIR) ACTUALLY
WENT TO COURT TO
GET ME REMOVED AS LITERARY EXECUTOR--an action which has
made my position
ten times more precarious.
It is really exhausting to have to keep
answering false charges. I
don't see anyone
throwing any charges at Mr. Sampas. He
probably suns
himself on a
Caribbean beach and laughs as everybody and his brother takes
potshots at
me. DO YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR???
On top of everything, I don't think Mr.
Asher even used my own piece
on Jan Kerouac,
which I offered him for free. How
come???
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:45:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Levi's Question
>....
>Unless you
explain it better to me, this is the conclusion that I am
>forced to
live with. And if that is the case then I must conclude that
>you are
likely yourself to do things that are no more right than what
>you tell us
to expect from your opponents.
>
>I hope that
you will show me where I am wrong here....
(Leon Tabory)
May 9,
1997
Dear Leon:
The answer to Levi was just given, finally, in a post entitled "I
Swore I'd Stay
out of this But..."
Sorry about being late. Sore throat, cold, and watching my 2 year
old every nite
this week. Plus a few other dozen
things.
This whole thing troubles me
though. I wrote Levi that detailed
letter about why
he had to take PARROT FEVER off his website last July. Why
should I have to
be explaining this all over again now?
The question is supposed to be, when is
the Kerouac Archive going to
be preserved and
made accessible to scholars; or, if it's not, then what
justification
does Mr. Sampas have for not putting it in a library?
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:57:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Kerouac Question
Dear Bill, May 9, 1997
Well I apologize for delay, but if
you've been following this list,
you realize I've
turned into Audie Murphy as single-handed gunslinger
answering shots
from about 30 different directions.
It seems you've already got your answer
elsewhere. My recollection
is that Jack WAS
ARRESTED AS A MATERIAL WITNESS. That's
what I wrote in
MEMORY BABE, and
at the time, I had access to all the clippings of Lucien's
arrest. (All that stuff is now under seal in the
closed MEMORY BABE
collection at U,
Mass, Lowell, regrettably.)
(Thank Mr. Sampas.)
Remember, I'm not a lawyer. Sometimes I wish I was. It'd save me
at least $200 an
hour.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:07:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
>
>
>I had not
heard the Edie K had died, when did that happen?
>
Dear Patricia
Elliott:
Thanks for your good words.
Edie died in the fall of 1993, of heart
trouble and diabetes. She
had written to
the Lowell Kerouac Committee that summer to ask if she could
be invited to
participate in Kerouac Week in October of that year. They did
not answer on
that subject, but asked if they could use her photo of Jack as
a seaman as logo
on their official T-shirt. Of course,
Edie said yes (she
gave away
everything, never made money off JK.) So
the Lowell Kerouac
Committee missed
their chance to have Edie as a guest.
If anyone doubts this, it will be
confirmed by Tim Moran, Edie's
executor.
(Sorry for being longwinded, but I'm
still pissed about Chaput
asking why I
never donated to their committee.)
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:40:46 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re:
Kerouac Street
Ron,
Jack Kerouac
Alley, would probably be more like it, right there by
Vesuvio and City
Lights. Don't remember the movers and
shakers for this
event. SF has been renaming little streets for
literary lights, just
named a part of
the Embarcadero for Herb Caen. As far as
I know JK is
the first Beat to
get his own street sign.
J Stauffer
Ron Guest wrote:
>
> Hoping someone in the Bay Area will
know this one. Saw Jack Kerouac
> Street
recently in San Francisco. When was this
street named and who was
>
responsible? Was there some kind of
ceremony? With beats? Was Kerouac
> family
there? Or did the city crew
> just roll up
and put up a sign?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:26:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: ORIGINAL vs COPY
At 07:47 PM
5/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Just an
aside, what would happen if copies of
all of Kerouac's papers end up
>in a Library,
and the originals are sold off to the highest buyer (or
>whoever).
>
>Is it enough
to just have the words-- complete, that are accessible to the
>public? DO
the originals have to be available?
>
>This is a
philosophical question.
>
>enjoy, Attila
>
Dear Attila, May 9, 1997
I like your questions!!! For one, they not personal attacks, like
why don't I open
my checkbook to the Lowell Kerouac Committee.
I have conferred with a lot of library
directors and archivists
about this very
same question. A few who have confirmed
the following
answer are: Tom
Staley of Univ. of Texas, Humanities Research Center; Tony
Bliss of
Bancroft, Berkeley; and Matthew Bruccoli of Univ. of South Carolina.
The answer is: no librarian worth his
salt will deal with xeroxes
unless THAT IS
ALL THAT IS AVAILABLE. Copies are
invariably imperfect;
someone leaves
something out; someone mixes up the pages.
Plus original
manuscripts, esp.
Kerouac's, which were often in pencil, or corrected in
pencil, have
faded over the years, and xeroxes will not pick up every single
faded pencil
mark. A key word might be lost, that
changes our whole
interpretation of
what Kerouac thought about a particular subject. How
often has someone
sent you a xerox of an article you want to read, only to
find that the
last word in each line has been cut off by the copying machine?
THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE IN SCHOLARSHIP
FOR HAVING THE ORIGINAL PAPERS
AVAILABLE FOR
STUDY.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:07:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Gregorio <Subterr7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
I have nothing
against him, but the image of a lp
"Rod Mckuen Reads Allen
Ginsberg,"
comes to mind.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:13:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I had
not heard the Edie K had died, when did that happen?
> >
> Dear
Patricia Elliott:
> Thanks for your good words.
> Edie died in the fall of 1993, of
heart trouble and diabetes. She...
by chance I spent
a lot of time with edie during the week of river city
reunion . she was
a brassy broad, intelligent with her chin up.
I
always felt that
their marriage was a result of a real relationship.
She certainly was
generous and i am sorry to hear she is gone.
We
weren't
"friends" but i was an unofficial property person for the
reunion, i have
lots of used stuff. She needed some
extra carry on
luggage when she
was leaving, i took samples over to her and we ended up
talking the
evening away. She seemed to me that she
would stand toe to
toe to
someone. She was with a dreadful young
man, some friend. She
certainly spoke
unvarnished.
I appreciate you
noticing that one line.
I believe william
and james were always kind to her.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:20:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Driving Through Mythical America
Nick,
I jumped when I saw "On The Road with Jack and Neal and a
couple of cute
furry friends Driving Through Mythical America!" You grew up
in England,
right? I was jerked back to 1971 and a great weird recording
called
"Driving Through Mythical America" - lyrics by Clive James, singing
by Pete Atkin.
The title song was a road song dealing partly with Kent
State.... nothin'
Beat about it htough although a cool song.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:22:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
Gerry:
Thank you kindly.
As they say out in Kansas. Yes it was Coldspring. I
enjoyed reading
the book and could see how many scholars are missing a great
opportunity. I
thought it was the best example of asbstract
expressionism-Motherwell/De
Kooning that I's seen. I don't know why
literature isn't
presented with art as music as it used to be in some canons.
That would be
fun. I l earned a great deal about the regionalism that many
Easterners take
for granted as well as the fact that there is a more active
literati compared
to the midwest and west. As a westerner, I had more
literary affinity
with Neal and Burroughs, but I just now appreciated K's New
Englandness. When
you do read my book (new edition just out..ahem..) you'll
may sense the
regional differences. I was particularly
impressed by K's
discription of
the March weather in New England. I like the city, but I never
quite feel at
home in these old mountains and woods. I've lived here almost
30 years and
still think Cooperstown is north of Cherry Valley but it is
south. In Kansas
I could just look towards New England, California, Mexico or
Canada to know
what direction I'm going. Speaking of which I'm driving to
Montana next week
then back to North Carolina. Pam will be
reading the
beat-list. I wish you well in the estate situation.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:27:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
In a message
dated 97-05-09 21:32:49 EDT, you write:
<< What's
everyone got against Garrison Keillor?? >>
Obviously nothing
if you're from Lake Wobegon.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:31:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
In a message
dated 97-05-09 20:30:29 EDT, you write:
<< I'll try
to find it in our used-book shops.
Thanks for your insights.
Best, Gerry Nicosia >>
Gerry:
Last of Moccasins
has been reprinted. We have it in stock for $12.00 new
paper or $20
signed HC...
JW
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:55:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
In a message
dated 97-05-09 23:37:24 EDT, you write:
<< DO YOU
THINK THAT'S FAIR??? >>
That's a
reasonable question when one is dumped on in the literary world. We
tend to hold
ideals that in our authors that become very mercurial. I've seen
a lot happen in
the literary world. It's not just the beat generation. I've
seen so many
unexplainable things happen and have built them up in my mind
either correctly
or incorrectly that sometimes I have to make a conscious
effort to forget
them and I love to hold grudges.
One person who
has been dumped on especially by the academe and main stream
press is Robert
Peters. I'll post this entry that
involves principles of the
beat-list of his
new book Hunting the Snark of which Robert Bly said: "I
don't think
people should be so incensed at Robert Peters. It's a critic's
job to be
nasty--he's not a mother or an uncle."
In it are his
classifications: The Billy the Kid Poem; the Dazzle Poem; the
Disney Poem; the
Iowa Workshop Poem; the Trapped Wife Poem; Academic Sleaze,
Genteel Buccolism.
Such are the some of the hundred plus classifications
Peters' uses in
Hunting the Snark...always lucid and charming approach to
modern American
poetry. Peters sets forth precise and
cogent commentary on
such luminaries
as Pound, cummings, Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Olsen, Bukowski
to name a few,
but lesser known poets such as Alfred Starr Hamilton and
Charles Plymell
are abundantly represented here, many given critical
attention for the
first time. Available from Avisson Press, Inc. 3007
Taliaferro Rd.
Greensboro, NC 27408 $20.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 21:43:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Jack's Intentions
....
>Gerry says
the warrant isn't important, a copy will do fine. How is
>this
different than asserting that the original texts aren't important,
>scholars can
do just as well with copies? I guess I'm
missing something
>here. We also hear that it is wrong to keep letters
from being
>published,
presumably so as not to affect living people....
>
>J Stauffer
>
James, when art
experts study the work of Toulouse-Lautrec, they look at
canvases,
sketchbooks, unfinished paintings. The
originals can sometimes
reveal one
drawing or painting layered on top of another. (See my post to
Attila about the importance
of original manuscripts, as opposed to xeroxes.)
They don't need
to see his medical test result showing he had syphilis. On
the other hand, a
biographer would like to see that test result, but a xerox
will do just as
well for him.
You'll notice I haven't yelled about
Mr. Sampas selling off
Kerouac's shoes
and overcoat; but I have complained about him selling off
Kerouac's
library, with personal annotations written in the margins of the
books.
The Sampases bought that warrant from
the dealer Jan brought it to,
who must've
called them up immediately about it, and they have been gloating
over it ever
since. But does anyone ever bring up the
background? The fact
that NYU, in
their Beat conference headed by Sampas's own Ann Charters, put
the financial
screws on Jan and me, making it almost impossible for us to come?
My father, who was a street fighter in
the old Italian neighborhood,
Taylor Street, in
Chicago, taught me one of the first rules of the street:
"When three
guys gang up on one guy, the one guy can pick up a brick ...."
Now Jan and I were definitely ganged up
on, and that warrant was her
brick.
Every participant in the 1994 NYU Beat
conference got their airfare
paid, plus a nice
room at the University Suites--every participant except
Jan and me. We told them we were bringing Paul Blake III
(Paul Jr's son),
and nothing was
offered for him either. Ann Charters
told us all the rooms
were filled up at
the University Suites. However, Doug
Brinkley (of MAGIC
BUS fame), who
was himself given a room at the University Suites, told us
there were EIGHT
EMPTY ROOMS there. Even Corso's two
young sons were given
rooms and
airfare--but not Jan, me, or Paul Blake III.
For Jan, this was a real hardship, as
she had to do dialysis every
six hours. If she had been staying at the university
suites, she could have
easily gotten
back to her room between sessions. As it
was, she had to cab
back and forth to
her room at the Gramercy Park Hotel, and missed a couple
of dialyses
during the course of the conference, leaving her very weak.
I paid my own way, but Jan paid for
Paul Blake III. If NYU had
accorded Jan and
Paul the same courtesy as all the other participants, she
wouldn't have had
to sell that warrant.
Capisc'?
As for the letters, my problem is not
with any particular person who
may have asked
not to be mentioned by name. My problem
is that one man,
John Sampas, is
continually the boss, saying what can be published of Jack
Kerouac's, what
needs to be removed from Jack's writings, what biographers
and critics can
write about him, etc. If they don't
write what he likes,
they get hassled
by his attorneys and/or agents, as my publisher has been,
as Steven Turner
has been, as many others have been. One
man, even the most
brilliant on
earth, should not be in charge of interpreting Jack Kerouac to
all the rest of
us.
That's why I left the Catholic Church,
James. God bless the Pope,
I'm sure he's a
good man, but I don't want him telling me what to do in
every aspect of
my life.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:59:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat-L T-Shirt Update
Dear fellow
Beat-L members:
I interrupt this
Estate stuff to bring you all the latest skinny regarding
the all-important
Beat-L T-Shirt...
After a few
tries, S. Clay Wilson has come up with artwork that meets the
approval of the
all mighty Beat Generation List T-Shirt Approval Committee -
that is, me!!
But, of course, I must also run the artwork by Web Meister
William Gargan
first for his final ok. Brooklyn College has the last word...
I am very happy
with Wilson's contribution to Beatdom and I'm sure you all
will also enjoy
the art chosen for the shirt. S. Clay's rough presentation
sketch is now
being
finalized into
camera-ready artwork. When the final art is completed, I get
the ok to proceed
and the cost to purchase the shirt is determined, I'll
notify you with
those details. The T-shirt artwork will be available for
viewing on the
web soon - address to follow as soon as possible.
Now back to the
action -
Jeffrey
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:36:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
....
> Although these manuscripts were
purchased primarily from one rare
>book and
manuscript dealer, it has always been clear to the library that
>these
manuscripts have as their provenance the estate of Jack Kerouac as
>represented
by John Sampas. Furthermore,it has been similarly clear that Mr.
>Sampas would
"like" all the Kerouac papers to come to The New York Public
>Library.
> The New York Public Library has signed
a legal deposit agreement
>with Mr.
Sampas to temporarily store the manuscript scroll of On the Road....
>
>
Sincerely,
>
Rodney Phillips
> Associate
Director,
>
Humanities & Social Sciences
>
>
.... Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac ended their relationship
>with the
National Park Service because in return for their support they
>wanted to
dictate our program (like most government agencies). We chose to
>retain our
independence. WE MADE THAT DECISION GERRY NOT THEM. We continue
>to have an
amicable, but unofficial relationship with them.
>
Phil, May 9, 1997
I'm really tired of you pouring out
nothing but lies and Sampas
propaganda. Go back to Mr. Sampas and tell him I'm thru
wasting my time
with this stuff
he gives you to post here..
I'm answering all the "real"
questions--the honest, sincere ones
that I've been
getting from Attila and many other people..
Sampas put Rodney Phillips up to that
letter in the LOWELL SUN.
Phillips did
Sampas a favor because he was hoping, at that time, that Sampas
really did intend
to put all of Kerouac's papers in the New York Public
Library. Time has shown that Mr. Sampas had no such
intention at all.
Notice how carefully Phillips words his
letter:
"these manuscripts have as their
provenance the estate of Jack Kerouac."
Provenance means origin.
Of course, if it's a Jack Kerouac
manuscript, it originated in Jack
Kerouac's
estate. SATORI IN PARIS actually came by
way of Fred Jordan at
Grove Press. And, according to Weinberg, BOOK OF DREAMS
and MEXICO CITY
BLUES were sold
to a private individual, not a dealer.
So stuff was later
resold to the New
York Public Library--what does this prove?
What does it
prove even if a
few pieces actually were sold directly by Sampas? We know
that Kerouac
retyped all of his novels many times, including ON THE ROAD.
If a library gets
only one draft from Mr. Sampas, they haven't got enough
for scholars to
study.
The whole archive needs to be put on
deposit, thousands and
thousands of
pieces of paper: manuscripts, retyped drafts, notebooks,
correspondence,
etc. etc.. Mr. Sampas has been offering a piece here, a
piece there, and
waiting for Jan's lawsuit to be dismissed.
Notice Phillips says they had an
agreement with Sampas "to
temporarily store
the manuscript scroll of ON THE ROAD."
Really generous of
Mr. Sampas. What that meant was that HE didn't have to
pay storage for it
for a while.
Now about the National Park ending its
relationship with Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac!, I have copies of several of the complaints that were
filed with the
National Park Service concerning this organization. Would
you like me to
quote from one?
This is Brad Parker, President of the
Lowell Corporation for the
Humanities,
writing to Roger Kennedy of the National Park Service in
Washington, D.C.,
September 19, 1995:
"There has not, for years now,
been any warm feeling between myself
and the local
Kerouac group ... because one of that group tried to verbally
intimidate me in
1988 by telling me that if I did not co-operate with him
and his
committee, I would become 'a voice crying in the wilderness,' that
people would play
'hardball' with me, and that the hall I had rented for my
public Kerouac
event would be 'taken away' from my organization! More
recently, 1993,
another member of that group verbally assaulted me in public
at one of the
Kerouac events they were sponsoring. And
his assault was
aimed at me ...
because the biographer I had brought to town had approached
the stage to
request that his speech of the following night be announced...."
There's a lot more. Care for me to keep going?
Or should we get Brad Parker on here
himself?
As for Martha Mayo, yes, I talked to
her, and she told me Mr. Sampas
and "one
other person" had objected to the public having access to my MEMORY
BABE collection
at U Mass, Lowell. However, Martha never
seems able to come
up with the name
of that other person.
And finally we learn that Mr. Sampas
can't tell us when he's going
to put the
Kerouac archive into a library because I'm a "slanderer." The
reason he never
sues me for slander, however, is because what I'm saying is
the truth.
Besides, Phil, ain't that a non
sequitur?
I'm going to bed.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:56:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeanne Vaccaro
<SlugBug747@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg Memorial
Hi... i'm new.
But I needed to respond to this:
<<For
anyone who's interested, there will be a memorial service and concert
in Ann Arbor on
May 24th in honor of Allen Ginsberg.
Patti Smith and
Natalie merchant
are playing and i think Anne Waldman is
speaking...There's
also some sort of poetry
contest. As usual, tickets are available through
Ticketmaster (does this
seem weird to
anyone else??)>>
I just spent
hours, wasted, trying to get bracelets, standing in lines,
making calls for
ticketmaster to see bob dylan (ani difranco is opening) and
i hate
ticketmaster, they are evil. tehy have this horrible hold on the
industry and, oh
where are the communists where you need them?
i
hatecapitalism...
Anyway...this
whole list is gr8. you are all 100x more knowlegdable about
this beat stuff
than me, but i like hearing your conversations. it's like
evesdropping ...
~jeanne
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:03:55 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg Memorial
Jeanne Vaccaro
wrote:
>
> Hi... i'm new. But I needed to respond to this:
>
> <<For
anyone who's interested, there will be a memorial service and concert
> in Ann Arbor
on May 24th in honor of Allen Ginsberg.
Patti Smith and
> Natalie
merchant are playing and i think Anne Waldman is
>
speaking...There's also some sort of poetry
>
contest. As usual, tickets are available
through Ticketmaster (does this
> seem weird
to anyone else??)>>
>
> I just spent
hours, wasted, trying to get bracelets, standing in lines,
> making calls
for ticketmaster to see bob dylan (ani difranco is opening) and
> i hate
ticketmaster, they are evil. tehy have this horrible hold on the
> industry
and, oh where are the communists where you need them? i
>
hatecapitalism...
>
>
Anyway...this whole list is gr8. you are all 100x more knowlegdable about
> this beat
stuff than me, but i like hearing your conversations. it's like
> evesdropping
...
>
> ~jeanne
hey jeanne, nice
to meet you. it is a quiet day on the
Beat-L and so
not a great day
for eavesdropping.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:20:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat-L T-Shirt Update
Jeffrey Weinberg
wrote:
>
> Dear fellow
Beat-L members:
>
> I interrupt
this Estate stuff to bring you all the latest skinny regarding
> the
all-important Beat-L T-Shirt...
mr j
>
greeeeaaaaat sanka very much
p
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:26:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Marie <HOMZADM@HIRAM.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
>
> What's
everyone got against Garrison Keillor??
>
please help my
ignorance...the name sounds familiar, but who is he?
Diane.
"But I don't
want to go among mad people," Alice said.
"You can't help that here. I'm mad, you're mad--"
"How do you
know I'm mad?" asked Alice.
"Of course you're mad, or you
wouldn't have come here. . . "
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 09:25:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Apology
May 10, 1997
Now it is my turn to apologize for
getting hot under the collar with
Mr. Chaput last
night. But I had some cause, besides
being tired (and
unwell) after a
long day of answering one personal attack after the next.
It is an insult
to my integrity for him to presume that I have put 1000's of
hours of my time
into two FICTITIOUS causes: the effort to preserve and make
available to
scholars the Jack Kerouac archive; and the effort to restore
access to my own
MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.
Furthermore, the
hurts that were
done to Jan and me were not imaginary.
It was no accident
that Jan Kerouac
and I were removed by police from the Jack Kerouac
Conference at
NYU, and it was not because of absentmindedness that the
Lowell Kerouac
Committee failed to invite either Jan or me to Lowell for 8
years running--a
policy of exclusion that began long before anything like a
lawsuit existed
against the Sampases.
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:53:39 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
i am dumb!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 13:52:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
At 10:36 PM
5/9/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
....
>> Although these manuscripts were
purchased primarily from one rare
>>book and
manuscript dealer, it has always been clear to the library that
>>these
manuscripts have as their provenance the estate of Jack Kerouac as
>>represented
by John Sampas. Furthermore,it has been similarly clear that Mr.
>>Sampas
would "like" all the Kerouac papers to come to The New York Public
>>Library.
>> The New York Public Library has signed
a legal deposit agreement
>>with Mr.
Sampas to temporarily store the manuscript scroll of On the Road....
>>
>>
Sincerely,
>> Rodney Phillips
>>
Associate Director,
>>
Humanities & Social Sciences
>>
>>
>.... Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac ended their relationship
>>with the
National Park Service because in return for their support they
>>wanted to
dictate our program (like most government agencies). We chose to
>>retain
our independence. WE MADE THAT DECISION GERRY NOT THEM. We continue
>>to have
an amicable, but unofficial relationship with them.
I WILL PUT MY
RESPONSE IN CAPS JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ.
AS A MATTER OF
FACT GERRY I JUST GOT BACK FROM THE CLEANUP AT THE KEROUAC
PARK AND WE WERE
WORKING HAND IN HAND WITH THE PARK SERVICE.THERE WERE OVER
50 PEOPLE HELPING
OUT.
GERRY YOU SAID
THEY CUT OUR FUNDING. LIKE I SAID THAT IS UNTRUE WE MADE THAT
DECISION NOT
THEM.
>>
>
>Phil, May 9, 1997
> I'm really tired of you pouring out
nothing but lies and Sampas
>propaganda. Go back to Mr. Sampas and tell him I'm thru
wasting my time
>with this
stuff he gives you to post here..
GERRY, THE POST READ THAT IT WAS IN THE LOWELL SUN
NEWSPAPER SO WHY WOULD I
NEED TO GET IT
FROM JOHN SAMPAS.
>Phillips did
Sampas a favor because he was hoping, at that time, that Sampas
>really did
intend to put all of Kerouac's papers in the New York Public
>Library.
NOW PHILLIPS IS
IN A CONSPIRACY TOO GERRY I SEE WHAT ROD MEANT ABOUT YOU
BEING PARANOID.
SO LETS ADD PHILLIPS TO YOUR CONSPIRATOR LIST, GINSBERG,ANN
CHARTERS, JOHN
LASH, HUNTER THOMPSON,FERLINGHETTI,MARTHA MAYO, THE LOWELL
SUN ALL OF THE
LOWELL CELEBRATES KEROUAC COMMITTEE,AND ON AND ON............
GERRY IF ENOUGH
PEOPLE TELL YOU YOUR DEAD. LAY DOWN.
Time has shown that Mr. Sampas had no such
intention at all.
> Notice how carefully Phillips words his
letter:
> "these manuscripts have as their
provenance the estate of Jack
Kerouac."
> Provenance means origin.
I THINK WE KNOW
WHAT PROVENANCE MEANS.
> Of course, if it's a Jack Kerouac
manuscript, it originated in Jack
>Kerouac's
estate. SATORI IN PARIS actually came by
way of Fred Jordan at
>Grove
Press. And, according to Weinberg, BOOK
OF DREAMS and MEXICO CITY
>BLUES were
sold to a private individual, not a dealer.
SO LET ME GET
THIS STRAIGHT A DEALER BUYS A MANUSCRIPT FROM JOHN SAMPAS AND
THEN TURNS AROUND
AND SELLS IT TO NYPL FOR MORE MONEY. SO WHY WOULDN'T
SAMPAS SELL IT TO
THE NYPL HIMSELF AND NOT LOSE THAT EXTRA MONEY? OR IS THE
DEALER LOSING
MONEY AND JUST DOING IT OUT OF THE KINDNESS OF HIS HEART?
So stuff was later
>resold to the
New York Public Library--what does this prove?
What does it
>prove even if
a few pieces actually were sold directly by Sampas?
NOW MAYBE HE DID
SELL SOMETHING IS THAT A CONTRADICTION GERRY?
We know
>that Kerouac
retyped all of his novels many times, including ON THE ROAD.
>If a library
gets only one draft from Mr. Sampas, they haven't got enough
>for scholars
to study.
GERRY YOUR
ARGUMENT ABOUT THE XEROX COPIES IS PRETTY PATHETIC. I THINK IF A
UNIVERSITY WERE
TO COPY A MANUSCRIPT OR LETTER IT WOULDN'T MISS PAGES OR
WORDS COME ON
GERRY ARE YOU FOR REAL?
> The whole archive needs to be put on
deposit, thousands and
>thousands of
pieces of paper: manuscripts, retyped drafts, notebooks,
>correspondence,
etc. etc.. Mr. Sampas has been offering a piece here, a
>piece there,
and waiting for Jan's lawsuit to be dismissed.
I THOUGHT YOU
SAID HE HASN'T SOLD ANYTHING TO NYPL. NOW HE IS OFFERING A
PIECE HERE AND A
PIECE THERE.
> Notice Phillips says they had an
agreement with Sampas "to
>temporarily
store the manuscript scroll of ON THE ROAD." Really generous of
>Mr.
Sampas. What that meant was that HE
didn't have to pay storage for it
>for a while.
SOUNDS LIKE A
GOOD IDEA TO ME.
> Now about the National Park ending its
relationship with Lowell
>Celebrates
Kerouac!, I have copies of several of the complaints that were
>filed with
the National Park Service concerning this organization. Would
>you like me
to quote from one?
> This is Brad Parker, President of the
Lowell Corporation for the
>Humanities,
writing to Roger Kennedy of the National Park Service in
>Washington,
D.C., September 19, 1995:
I DON'T KNOW BRAD
AND I HAVE NEVER MET HIM. HE HAS WRITTEN SOME GOOD KEROUAC
STUFF THOUGH. I
HAVE HEARD THAT HE IS YOUR MOUTHPIECE IN LOWELL SO IT
DOESN'T SURPRISE
ME ABOUT THIS LETTER.
> "There has not, for years now,
been any warm feeling between myself
>and the local
Kerouac group ... because one of that group tried to verbally
>intimidate me
in 1988 by telling me that if I did not co-operate with him
>and his
committee, I would become 'a voice crying in the wilderness,' that
>people would
play 'hardball' with me, and that the hall I had rented for my
>public
Kerouac event would be 'taken away' from my organization! More
>recently,
1993, another member of that group verbally assaulted me in public
>at one of the
Kerouac events they were sponsoring. And
his assault was
>aimed at me
... because the biographer I had brought to town had approached
>the stage to
request that his speech of the following night be announced...."
OH MY GERRY THAT
SOUNDS SO CRIMINAL!
> There's a lot more. Care for me to keep going?
NO I CAN'T TAKE
ANY MORE I'M GOING TO PUKE.
> Or should we get Brad Parker on here
himself?
> As for Martha Mayo, yes, I talked to
her, and she told me Mr. Sampas
>and "one
other person" had objected to the public having access to my MEMORY
>BABE
collection at U Mass, Lowell.
GERRY IT'S NOT
YOUR MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE YOU SOLD IT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER
REMEMBER(THE ONLY
BIDDER THAT IS)
However, Martha never seems able to come
>up with the
name of that other person.
> And finally we learn that Mr. Sampas
can't tell us when he's going
>to put the
Kerouac archive into a library because I'm a "slanderer." The
>reason he
never sues me for slander, however, is because what I'm saying is
>the truth.
BE PATIENT GERRY
HE WILL GET AROUND TO IT.
> Besides, Phil, ain't that a non
sequitur? IT WOULD BE A NON
SEQUITUR IF
GABRIEL HADN'T LEFT STELLA HER ESTATE. GERRY IF SOMEONE TOOK
CARE OF FOR SIX
OR SEVEN YEARS WHEN YOU WERE INCAPABLE OF IT WOULD YOU
DISINHERIT THEM?
WHY DID JAN
KEROUAC DISINHERIT PAUL BLAKE AND LEAVE NOTHING TO HIM?
> I'm going to bed.
GERRY DO THAT.
YOU NEED THE REST SO YOU CAN UP AND DO SOME MORE "LOWELL
CELEBRATES
KEROUAC" BASHING.
>
>GERRY I HAVE
ABOUT HAD IT WITH YOU. YOU REALLY HAVE GONE OFF THE DEEP END
WITH THIS. IT'S
AMUSING HOW YOU CAN TURN A QUESTION LIKE . "WHEN DID EDIE
PARKER DIE?"
and "WAS JACK ARRESTED AS A MATERIAL WITNESS" INTO YOUR
CONSTANT HARPING
ABOUT THE ESTATE MATTERS AND DUMPING ON L.C.K. ITS LIKE I
SAID IT'S YOUR
ONLY AGENDA THESE DAYS SO I CAN SEE WHY L.C.K. WOULDN'T WANT
YOU TO SPEAK LIKE
I SAID IT'S NOT "LOWELL CELEBRATES LAWSUITS" IT'S "LOWELL
CELEBRATES
KEROUAC".
I CAN SEE IF I
ASK YOU TO STOP BASHING A GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS LIKE L.C.K.YOU
ARE JUST GOING TO
DO IT TEN TIMES HARDER.
DON'T BOTHER ME ANY MORE WITH YOUR PATHETIC
RAMBLINGS. I SAID I DIDN'T WANT
TO GET IN A
PISSING CONTEST WITH YOU BUT I GUESS I DID ANYWAY. IT LOOKS LIKE
YOU CAN PISS
LONGER AND FARTHER THAN I SO HAVE A GOOD LIFE AND KEEP PISSING
JUST DON'T TURN
INTO THE WIND. YOURS TRULY, PHIL CHAPUT
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:56:29 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
i am dumb!
i am dumb!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 23:04:01 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: commie or beat?
In-Reply-To:
<970510105159_-164231775@emout02.mail.aol.com>
WHEN THE NEST IS EMPTY rants
Oh where are the beats where you need
them?
Welcome to the club
where everybody cares
WHO u
are
>oh where are
the communists where you need them? i
>hatecapitalism...
>
>
>~jeanne
>
CHILDREN RETURN TO No 10
For the first time in nearly 50
years
children were preparing to move
into 10 Downing Street
The children attended a lunch
at
Downing Street to celebrate
their victory.
Peeper's pence
said he
would punish himself by
halving his salary for six
month's for peeping into a
women's bath.
ANTIGANG PLEA
TO CHILDREN
FROM DEATH ROW
I never felt
remorse.
That was the
madness of it.
Roland Topor,
french writer, died of a stroke in Paris
aged 59. he was
born on january 7, 1938.
considered a
mediocre stu-
dent
Topor's books were of all kinds, they
ranged
from Alice in the Letterland, a
children
book
dedicated to Lewis Carroll, through a
joke
book
with
one
word
per
page
his own death
after several days in a coma
following a brain haemorrhage
only half confirms one
of
the aphorism
in
his recent book
"All's true that ends badly, &
quickly."
i haven't lost
anyone yet
LITTLE VENICE
2 BED WHITE
STUCCO WHITE
PICTORESQUE
CANAL
plants which
grew in the
churchyard
were thuoght to
be
especially
powerfull
Rinaldo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 17:15:46 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970509171539.7477A-100000@crystal.palace.net>
When Keillor and
Co. organized a centennial birthday party for F. Scott
Fitzgerald a few
months back, they cleaned up Fitzgerald's language to make
it politically
correct, that is, sensitive, for a marathon reading in St.
Paul of The Great
Gatsby, to some sneering behind the scenes about
censorship and a
little bit of cautious protest publically.
But it was
high toned farce
at last, a party whose function was to serve Keillor's
literary sense of
himself, not Fitzgerald. I would say,
keep Keillor away
(you can't,
really--he has sponsors) from the Beats; he thinks he's cool,
hip, yup, Beat,
plus ordinary folks thrown in for good measure, but Lake
Woebegone is his
imaginary capitol of a literary monarchy, for which he is
Lord of the
Flies, which he controls absolutely, and which you enter at the
peril of your own
voice. (He brooks no competition.) He's got voice, but
it ain't
Beat--its post-Colonial egalitarianism with a Lutheran provincial
twist, as if his
favorite drug were vaseline. He's Howl
with scented
Kleenex and
Lysol, for the humor, of course, Keillor being far superior to
his own jokes on
the rest of us, yet still our local radio friend. I'm
sure he will do
his best to bestow his literary largesse and bop husbandry
upon the Beats.
// John M.
>granted i
don'
>t like the
idea either of rewriting his prose, but my suggestion of what
>to be done is
-- if you dont like it ignore it! i mean, organize a
>PROTEST?! ARE
YOU KIDDING ME?
>
>Eric
>
>On Fri, 9 May
1997, Bill Philibin wrote:
>
>> >
featuring Garrison Keillor (!!??) and friends 'updating some classic OTR
>> >
chapters for a '90s audience. (PMWIP)
>>
>> What ?!?!? Please say that this is a typo.... What kind of
>
"changes"
>> are
going to be done? Who is the
"Author" of these so called Changes...
>> Is dean
going to be looking to score some crack?
IMHO OTR is already a
>> timeless
piece of literary excellence...
>>
>> Is there any one we can write to to inquire
about such things? And
> maybe
>> protest
against the Changing of JKs words?
>>
>> You just ruined my year...
>>
>> -Bill
>>
>> [ email: deadbeat@buffnet.net | web:
http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat ]
>> |"A
good question is never answered. It is
not a bolt to be tightened
>> | into
place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the
>> | hope
of greening the landscape of idea."
>> |
>> | -- John Ciardi
>>
[--- ICQ UIN = 188335 --|--
PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:23:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cast of Characters
In a message
dated 97-05-08 04:49:29 EDT, you write:
<< In my
ignorance I guess I was under the mistaken impression that John
Sampas
was one of Stella's brothers, a guy pehaps in
his 60-70's. >>
John Sampas is
Stella's brother. Jim Sampas (a guy in his 30s or so) is a
nephew, I'm not
sure what brother's son.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:47:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cast of Characters
In a message
dated 97-05-10 18:24:42 EDT, you write:
<< Jim
Sampas (a guy in his 30s or so) is a
nephew, I'm not sure what brother's son.
>>
The dead one....
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 16:12:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: New JK books for Fall
..... the PW
article says the following. (Disclaimer - *I* am
>not saying
this, don't flame me)
>
>"After Kerouac's
death, rights to his works were owned by his widow, Stella,
>wh refused to
release any unpublished work. After Stella dies in 1989, John
>Sampa,
executor of Kerouac's estate, and Lord {the agent Sterling Lord, JK's
>original
agent, I think? NWW} sold to Viking all of Kerouac's unpublished
>materials."
>
>
>This suggests
to me that, as I suggested last week, the publication of
>unreleased
material is being controlled not by the estate as such, but as
>business
decisions by the publisher. But i didn't know that 'all' the
>unpublished
material had been sold - so presumably the estate has a mighty
>big advance
for that already tucked away. It's hard to believe that Sterling
>Lord could
really have allowed seven JK books to go into public domain (I'm
>not being
antagonisitic, Gerry or disbelieving, it's just such a basic mistake)
>
Dear Nick, May 10, 1997
All I had heard was that Sampas made a
6 book deal for unpublished
Kerouac with
Viking Penguin in 1993, just weeks before MEMORY BABE got
(coincidentally?)
kicked out of Viking Penguin. This
included the two
volumes of
letters, SOME OF THE DHARMA, BOOK OF BLUES, WAKE UP, and one
other. I don't see how Sampas could sell them
"all the unpublished Kerouac"
since there are
literally hundreds of notebooks filled with writing that was
never published
(many of them breast pocket notebooks), and future books
will have to be
carved out of them by an astute editor.
Can he sell books
that have not yet
even been assembled???
OKAY, here's the report from Thomson
& Thomson, considered the
foremost
copyright research authority in the business.
This particular
report was
prepared for Jan's copyright lawyer Herbert Jacoby by Timothy J.
Herbert.
It lists the following books as without
copyright renewal. All of
Kerouac's books
fell under the old system, which meant the copyright had to
be renewed after
28 years from date of publication, with a one year grace
period. Since all of the books below are past that one
year grace period,
they are, to the
best of my knowledge, in public domain:
THE AMERICANS (only the text by
Kerouac, not the photographs, of course)
BIG SUR
BOOK OF DREAMS (only the text published
by City Lights in 1961; note
the original
manuscript was much larger than what was published by City
Lights, and so
much of the original text is still unpublished and belongs to
John Sampas.)
EXCERPTS FROM VISIONS OF CODY (the New
Directions special edition,
published in
1960) (about 1/3 of the final text, I believe)
MAGGIE CASSIDY
PULL MY DAISY (only Jack's ad-libbed
text by Grove Press, published
in 1961; the song
was renewed by Amram et al. in 1988.)
SCRIPTURE OF THE GOLDEN ETERNITY
TRISTESSA
OLD ANGEL MIDNIGHT (the two excerpts
published in BIG TABLE in 1959
and in EVERGREEN
REVIEW in 1964.)
Well, you don't believe Sterling Lord
is responsible? Jan signed an
agreement with
the Sampases in 1986 (so that they would finally pay her the
royalty income
she was due). That agreement confirmed
that Stella and Jan
should split
ownership of the copyright renewals, and it made Stella's
agent, Sterling
Lord, Jan's agent too--for the rest of her life! It also
said that Lord
would be "both parties' representative of said renewals."
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know who
was responsible. Mr. Lord?
Mr. Sampas? Mr. Sampas's lawyer? There may be a malpractice suit here
worth millions to
someone, but it requires investigation.
For the time being, I'm out of the
loop, since Mr. Lash has got me
tied up in a
challenge to my executorship in the appellate court of Santa
Fe, New Mexico.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 16:43:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: A Question for G. Nicosia/not Estate
related!!
At 02:06 PM
5/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello Gerry,
>
>Someone
recently passed on to me an extra copy of the Grove
>Press
Publication of _Memory Babe_ (mine is
>is disarray)
and as I was perusing this copy I noticed
>that pgs
97-128 were missing. There has been no
>tampering
with this copy (pages ripped out, etc.), as far
>as I can tell
because there would be obvious signs
>(the gap in
the binding). Was there problems w/
>the orginal
publishing, or did I stumble upon a
>misprint? Just curious.
>
>Thanx,
>Mike
>
Dear Mike, May 10, 1997
I never heard of such an error. Maybe some collector would want it
(like an error in
a postage stamp?) You might ask Jeffrey
Weinberg if book
misprints are as
valuable as those in stamps and coins.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 17:05:01 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
At 11:27 PM
5/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-09 21:32:49 EDT, you write:
>
><<
What's everyone got against Garrison Keillor?? >>
>Obviously
nothing if you're from Lake Wobegon.
>C. Plymell
>
he ain't jack. .
.
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 17:08:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
At 06:53 PM
5/10/97 +0200, you wrote:
>i am dumb!
>
>
congratulations! you win!
xxxooos.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 20:40:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
In a message
dated 97-05-10 13:54:36 EDT, you write:
<< NOW
PHILLIPS IS IN A CONSPIRACY TOO GERRY I SEE WHAT ROD MEANT ABOUT YOU
BEING PARANOID. SO LETS ADD PHILLIPS TO YOUR
CONSPIRATOR LIST, GINSBERG,ANN
CHARTERS, JOHN LASH, HUNTER THOMPSON,FERLINGHETTI,MARTHA
MAYO, THE LOWELL
SUN ALL OF THE LOWELL CELEBRATES KEROUAC
COMMITTEE,AND ON AND ON............
>>
Were all these
people conspirators? I knew it all along! How many were
paranoids? And
does paranoia prevent candor? I've seen all the double dealing
bullshit I need.
Back to the Johnsons and the Shits. And let history mark you
who are fucking
up.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 01:36:17 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "m.d.fascione"
<m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject: test
test
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 20:50:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <m0wQFOt-000rF2C@gpnet.it>
On Sat, 10 May
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> i am dumb!
i am birdbrain!
Was downtown
(Cleveland) today for first meeting of Linux user's group, got
out at noon and
wife & I drove past rockhall to see Kesey etc. Nothing
really going on
(it'd rained all morning and was dark & gloomy) but some
band was playing
in front of the building to about 150 people, mostly
neohippies and
family yuppie types. No sign of new magic bus, Pranksters or
Kesey. Went home.
Drove back into
town later in afternoon to stop by local music rag office
and pick up this
month's review CDs; drove again past rockhall -- this time
it wasn't raining
and no Kesey or Pranksters or bus, didn't get that close
this time but
still had camera and thought about taking a picture of one of
the many day-glo
yellow CLINTON SUCKS stickers plastered on telephone poles
down East 9th
Street, main drag of town, last November election time which
nobody since has
bothered to remove ... but was sick with headache too bad to
get out of the
car, barely made it home, got a slow-leaking flat on one of
my tires and plan
on drinking red wine tonight. Hope someone else has a
better Kesey story,
'cause I feel rotten today.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:15:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
Gerry:
DORKS IN THE LIT
BUSINESS. It was bad enough with back stabbing poets.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:15:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeanne Vaccaro <SlugBug747@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
i cannot belive
you all actually KNOW all these artists...
oh man
<sigh>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:18:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
In a message
dated 97-05-09 20:30:29 EDT, you write:
<< As
someone who's done a fair amount of Kerouac lit. criticism I'm
astonished by your grasp of DR SAX. What you say is not only solid
criticism but it's also fun to read. >>
Gerry:
So Pam said to me
awhile ago when that Lost Generation thread came up -- that
movement's
writers had similar styles. In the Beat writers there are similar
"trace
elements" and varied styles, but my pleasure in reading Dr. Sax and
casting the whole
critique in a poor metaphorically fight ring did produce
another insight:
That is Kerouac was steeped in the university canons of the
50s, many of
which were venturing into the expatriates, Joyce etal. It seems
Kerouac was
swinging quite heavily, really fighting towards (for?) Epiphany,
which was a
deeply engrained battle of the mind in the history of literature.
Kerouac's
contemporaries may have dumped this so to speak, especially
Burroughs whose
canvas was more like Pollocks until he went ballistics... as
future literacies
seem look at the broad canvas conceptually or
minimallisctically,
looping back upon the quantum, or whatever else has
mainframed
Postmodernism to a mode of rhetoric
rather than a movement.
I was also
reminded while reading the book of just how Allen mimicked
Kerouac's
"voice". I assume it was that way rather than the other way around.
Even in all the
little innuendos and inventions.
Is it true what
was in the Kesey post about Allen's last words?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:21:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: (Please Read) Re: New JK books for
Fall
In a message
dated 97-05-10 02:55:43 EDT, you write:
<< I have
nothing against him, but the image of a
lp "Rod Mckuen Reads Allen
Ginsberg," comes to mind. >>
Allen once said
he would read with Rod McKuen and me. Rod McKuen read one of
my poems on the
BBC. I thought he did a good job. No matter what you say Rod
McKuen is a poet
and Garrison Keiler is not, if that's your line. He's a kind
lyric poet with
lines no more pathetic than Bobby Dylan. He admits when he
does horseshit
which few poets of fame will do, because they can sucker in
all the little
pricks that don't know the difference. Nothing against you by
the way. You
might read McKuen's Art of Catching Trains and you might take
Robert Peters
quiz in that is in Where the Bees Suck and Hunting the Snark.
If you don't know who Robert Peters is, then
I'm pretty much wasting my
time.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:25:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
PS: Michael
Buchenroth has done a fantastic job building a site for me. He
has posted my
Gale Research Contemporary Authors Autobiography, if you are
interested. It
was also published in Beat Scene in serial form and in Atom
Mind. This will
provide you with my background and my stint with the Beats.
Thanks. I can
sympathize with the non-exclusive treatment that fame and its
baggage gobbles
up, sometimes leaving one with one hand on the baggage and
one hand paying
the ticketmaster. Maybe those gen-xs have something going
after all.
C. Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:33:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A Question for G. Nicosia/not Estate
related!!
In a message
dated 97-05-10 19:47:58 EDT, you write:
<< You
might ask Jeffrey Weinberg if book
misprints are as valuable as those in stamps
and coins. >>
In the case of
the Memory Babe misprint, there is no extra worth attached to
such a copy...But
you should send the copy to Gerry and ask him to sign it
for you anyway.
Just don't forget
to add return postage....
JW
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:15:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
Red wine
Slow leaking tire
An old poster of
Clinton sucks
One hand on your
baggage
and the other
trying to pay the ticketmaster
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:39:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cast of Characters
That'd be
"Curly".
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:54:54 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Waste not, want
NOT!!!! Get off the net and get smart then!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:55:28 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Greg Elwell <elwellgr@JUNO.COM>
Subject: William Burroughs on Beatles Cover
Hey,
Most of you
probably noticed this already, but if you haven't, I figured
that I would
point it out anyway. I was looking at
the cover of "Sgt.
Peppers Lonely
Hearts Club Band" today, and I realized that William
Burroughs is
actually on the cover.
Greg Elwell
elwellg@voicenet.com -or
elwellgr@juno.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:34:07 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: (Please Read) Re: JK books for fall
Hello Charles
& All Concerned:
I hope the
Garrison Keillor thing is purely rumor in regards to
having his hands
on JK text or any other text for that matter. I
have to live in
the same town with that moron. I'm not sure how well
any of you know
how GK operates=97I for one know too much. During the
F.Scott Fitz. 100
th. Birthday Celebration the prick along with Pat
(PLEASE GIVE ME MONEY) Hampl, censored
original text because of racial
passages-to
quote: Pat Hampl: We wanted to make his text more
politically
correct for a '90's audience. Of course, the media tried to
cover up as much
shit on the local scene as possible but it didn't
work out the way
they planned. Believe me, the TC area is just as guilty
as the next for
white-washing facts. The fact is: GK, PH, & company are
dangerously
conservative robots that would conform to anything with a
buck in it. We
have a very strong sub-culture here that goes
unnoticed-and we
like it that way. We write, paint, and sculpt for a
universal
audience-I play the blues in the 'hood and hang
with the brothers
on their turf. And the news from the hood in regards
to the above was
just another slap in the face from GK & Company. In the
words of one
young warrior: They treat us like kids hopin' we don't take
offence and do
some L.A. burnin' "They all fucked-up Richard,
youzalwhite-you
tell 'em for all us homies." Well, I told you, and I
really hope it's
all a lot of B.S with those oh-so-politically-correct
jerks. My night
is ruined. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
Richard D. Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:25:36 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
Hello Charles,
I just recieved a
letter from Robert Peters. He sends his best to you
and thanks for
bringing us together. I'll be with Bly on June 5 th, and
of course there
will be a lot of ball-busting from yours truly. I
can hardly wait
to discuss Robert Peters "Hunting The Snark." For me,
an absolute
brilliant piece of work. I had mentioned how bad I felt
having not
included him in the "Scorched Hands" anthology. I wished
Simon Perchik
would've brought it to my attention-a major oversight on
my part. He was
amused, however, that I had several of his books
shelved
in-between Maurice Maeterlinck, and Edgar Lee Masters. You
were right-on
Charles about his "Selected Poems" from Asylumn Arts.
Along with the
two titles from your Cherry Valley Editions (Ludwig of
Bavaria / &
Blood Countess-both awesome works!) it's amazing how a man
of his stature
can be-and is-neglected by the acadame and mainstream
press. I wonder
why they're so afraid?
Richard Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 01:38:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
Dear Charles
Plymell:
Thank you --- and
Amen to your response!!
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:38:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Ciao, Rinaldo!
Caro
Rinaldo, il 11 maggio, 1997
Mio padre Pietro, chi e morto in 1972,
a parlato italiano
(siciliano) con
mia nonna. Ho studiato italiano in
scuola trenta anni fa,
ma io ho
dimenticato molti parole. Non ho
viaggiato in Italia mai, ma
voglio vedere
Italia, e specialmente sicilia, avante che io moriro. Miei
parenti sono venuto di Cannicatti e Girgenti. Posso leggere italiano
meglio che posso
scrivere in italiano, aloro lei puo mi scrivere in italiano
e io lo capisco
(capiscero?) bene. Signor Sampas pensero
che c'e un grande
cospirazione e
egli andra trovare un traduttore per lui aiutare!
Lei verra in California qualche
anno? Voglio cucinare un pasto
italiano per voi
e presentare a voi mia sposa Elena e mia figlia Emilia, che
si chiama Wu Ji
in cinese. Emilia (Wu Ji) a due anni, et
noi l'abbiamo
adottato in Cina.
Spero che io non ho parlato troppo
malamente!
A domani, Geraldo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 23:07:17 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Here in Railroad Earth
Comments: To:
race@midusa.net
David,
Well it was a
good "Gun"--Randy Quaid as a lecherous country club
president with
nice bits by Darrel Hannah, Sean Young and especially
Jenniffer Tilly
with that voice and featuring handcuffs.
Some good
writing. Reminds me why I love Southern women. All that evil
repartee.
Think I'll slide
slowly off to sleep or else to nightmare. or else see
whether the TV
talking heads still think that the S$M whiskey buggery is
going to put the
kibbosh on a new stadium for the Niners, and be
reminded that I
am missing the Black and White Ball on the waterfront in
SF. Oh well.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 05:10:46 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: mother's day
wishing all the
Mother's on this list a very Happy day !!!
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 07:32:39 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: finishing of Desolation Angels ...
i'm becoming more
Beat by the day it seems. i just
concluded Desolation
Angels. it was a very very slow read for me b/c the
bleakness and
peaceful sorrow,
all these notions just hit so hard directly where i am
and have been for
sometime...
even found myself
jotting down notes on a pad (that i'll likely lose
soon) of phrases
i identified with to the innards of my bones...
i think it is
overdue at the library so i'll have to get it back soon.
B4 becoming more
Beat-literature, i think i'll pull a couple books off
my shelf that
have been gathering dust and look for insight ...
JK writes
"Eternity? Here and Now? Wat they talkin about? " (his
imagination of
his Mother's viewpoint) Mozart on his
death bed must
have known this
-- and Blaise de Pascal most of all ...
so the Kerouac's
will get lugged back to the library and the Pascal will
come down from
the shelf. I'll continue to lurk and jab
here and there
while i give
myself a pascalian-marrow-transfer and then move into
another phase of
Beat-literacy when the operation is performed
successfully.
david rhaesa
salina, kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 14:54:53 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: una poesia per Gerald Nicosia
In-Reply-To:
<199705110538.WAA23046@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
Cari amici beat,
Toto' il
grandissimo attore napoletano, interprete
di numerosi
bellissimi film e' anche un poeta
ecco una sua
poesia in dialetto napoletano
'O sole by Antonio De Curtis in arte Toto'
Io songo nato addo' sta 'casa 'o sole.
'O sole me cunosce 'a piccerillo;
'o primmo vaso 'nfronte - ero tantillo
-
m'ha dato quanno stevo 'int' 'o
spurtone.
E m'ha crisciuto dint' 'e braccia soje,
scanzanname 'a malanne e malatie.
'O sole! 'O sole... e' tutt'a vita
mia...
Io senza 'o sole nun pozzo campa'.
--------------------
i hope Gerry has
no difficulties
to understand the
beatific feeling
of the Toto'
verses
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 14:40:23 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: (rants) i'm a dumb dummy beet beat
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:28:13 EDT
>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
>Subject: Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what
the hell
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Timothy, what
a wonderful idea! 100 messages x 250 or
so a day. Just
remember
>to reply
directly to Rinaldo not to the list.
>
>
be beet! be
beat!! be bee!!! be!
Good Sunday time,
Bill & Timothy,
i take a just
week to reply to th
e above sentence,
'cuz of i must
have loooooooooooooong
period for
a serious
reflexion 'bout the flo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
(thnx L. for the
suggestion...),n
w, now, my cells
brain in a week
are diminished,
& perhaps the rep
ly is better, i'm
wonder to any
person invited
some
body to crash
my email box,
particu
larly a beat.
there's who
thinks i'm tempted to
crash the
beat-list server? to hac
k the listserver
or destroy the li
st? the above
sentence written by
Bill seems in
this way, & don't
in my opinion
knows what really is
communicate,
writing even a zillion
of posts to the
Beat-List really a
matter of life,
of heart not only
spread light ray
trhu fibre to &
from the ocean,
& u are'nt consider
ing this purpose
of the list, U had
invited a beat to
destroy a mailbox
of another beat!
what's etichs is
that?
RANTS by a not competent beat
dummy-run
is dumb,
dummy-run
is bum
dumb
is dummy
dum
is bum
yrs rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 14:43:51 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: (don't read this if u are'nt italian)
cari beat,
ci sono degli
italiani sulla Beat-List,
se si' mandatemi
un reply
rinaldo@gpnet.it
grazie in
anticipo da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 15:01:18 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
In-Reply-To: <199705110008.RAA28975@calvin.usc.edu>
>At 06:53 PM
5/10/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>i am
dumb!
>>
>>
>
>congratulations! you win!
>
>
>xxxooos.a.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 15:03:55 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Get off the net and get smart then!
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:54:54 -0600
>Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Waste not,
want NOT!!!! Get off the net and get smart then!
>
>
i appreciate yr
opinion sir...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 09:08:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's archive
Dear Gerry:
Thanks for your
reply concerning the date on the poster, Sept. makes more
sense. By that time Stanford had possession of
Allen's papers, although it
will take them
years and years to catalogue and make everything available.
That's just the fact of life with large
collections and library staff
budgets. You might want to be careful about saying
that Columbia didn't have
a chance to buy
the collection. They had possession of
the collection for
nearly 30 years
and were offered it on several occasions.
They bought only
small groups of
materials, i.e. the Kerouac letters to Allen, but they never
were able to make
a commitment to buying the entire collection.
In truth,
Allen always
wanted his papers to be there, he had strong feelings for
Columbia, but
again, what would you have had him do?
Give his papers to
Columbia and live
in his 4th floor walk-up until he died of a heart attack on
the
stairway? [No one guessed he would die
anyway of liver cancer, or he
might have done
something different with the collection]
He used the money
to support his
friends, as usual, and buy an apartment with an elevator (the
one requirement
that he had). In addition to that he was
finding it
increasing
difficult to administer his own archive and that was becoming
expensive and
time-consuming. Each person who wanted
access to the
collection had to
go through Allen, since Columbia did not own it, they
needed his written
permission for each person. You must
have needed the same
okay from the
Ginsberg office. You can imagine how
much time this required
for all the
requests Allen received. Now Stanford
handles all that and
access is much
easier and more democratic.
As far as selling
to the Japanese, I'm wondering if you thought that
statement over
before you said it? Why would it be
wrong for a Japanese
University to buy
the Ginsberg or Kerouac collection? It
would be more
inconvenient for
you or me to use the materials, but easier for Japanese
scholars. Isn't this pretty close to being a racist
comment? I don't refuse
to look at the
Rembrandt's or Van Gogh's at the Metropolitan Museum even
though they were
taken from Europe by American industrialists at the turn of
the century with
loads of cash. Should I only look at the
paintings on trips
to the
Netherlands? Maybe time for a reality
check about money, why
shouldn't people
(Ginsberg, Sampas family, Jan, you, me) sell things for
their true
value? At least in Allen's case, he did
a lot of good work with
that money, i.e.
giving all the money from the Gap ad to Naropa Institute;
supporting a
legion of poets over the past 40 years, paying me to organize
his photo
collection, etc. We may not like the
decisions people make, they
may sell items to
people in the Middle East, Japan or Timbuktu, but if they
legitimately own
something they have the right to do with it what they will.
I love the work of the Beats, obviously, but I
don't think their papers fall
into the category
of "national treasures".
They're world-wide treasures.
I hope you'll try
not to bring Ginsberg into this too much since he isn't
around to add any
light on the situation. Your earlier
mention that Allen
"refused"
to help Jan puzzled me a little. Did he
really "refuse" or was he
just too busy to
respond to your request at that time.
Doesn't really sound
like Allen to
refuse to help anyone, does it?
How did I get
going on that? Hope all goes smoothly in
your quest to verify
the legitimate
owners of the Kerouac materials.
Yours,
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 09:11:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Literary History of the Beats
Dear Clay:
No truth on this
publication. Allen has done a series of
lectures on the
History of the
Beat Generation which could someday appear as a book, but
there is nothing
in the works.
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 15:07:57 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.94.970510204212.1796C-100000@seka.nacs.net>
At 20.50 10/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>On Sat, 10
May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> i am
dumb!
>
>i am
birdbrain!
>
>
>Was downtown
(Cleveland) today for first meeting of Linux user's group, got
>out at noon and
wife & I drove past rockhall to see Kesey etc. Nothing
>really going
on (it'd rained all morning and was dark & gloomy) but some
>band was
playing in front of the building to about 150 people, mostly
>neohippies
and family yuppie types. No sign of new magic bus, Pranksters or
>Kesey. Went
home.
>
>Drove back
into town later in afternoon to stop by local music rag office
>and pick up
this month's review CDs; drove again past rockhall -- this time
>it wasn't
raining and no Kesey or Pranksters or bus, didn't get that close
>this time but
still had camera and thought about taking a picture of one of
>the many
day-glo yellow CLINTON SUCKS stickers plastered on telephone poles
>down East 9th
Street, main drag of town, last November election time which
>nobody since
has bothered to remove ... but was sick with headache too bad to
>get out of
the car, barely made it home, got a slow-leaking flat on one of
>my tires and
plan on drinking red wine tonight. Hope someone else has a
>better Kesey
story, 'cause I feel rotten today.
>
>m
>
Kesey story is
life!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 15:11:49 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: mother's day
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 05:10:46 -0500
>Reply-To: race@midusa.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Subject: mother's day
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>wishing all
the Mother's on this list a very Happy day !!!
>
>david rhaesa
>
me too,
my mother
born
in 1926
in
green
mountains
in
the
italian
alpine
lands
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:24:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
Phil,
Why are you
copying your own posts and then responding to your own words? Is
this supposed to
bolster your argument?
Also, why not try
a new line of attack? Your constant
SHOUTING of the same
themes adds
nothing new to the debate. You say Gerry
is trying to tear
people down, but
that's all I see you doing... attacking him, and not very
well at
that. Your posts look like an attempt to
simply take Nicosia "off
message"...
to muddy up the works with empty accusations, forcing him to deal
with issues that
have little to do with what is really important.
Phil, why not
interject something Positive into the mix?
Whether he's right
or wrong about
the will being forged, Gerry is at least trying to do what he
can with his
attempt to keep the archives preserved forever.
You even
complimented him
on that yourself in your post dated 4/30/97.
What are you
doing besides
hammering on Gerry?
Phil, in that
same post you indicated you wanted to help the situation in
some fashion.
>"What,
Gerry, will it take for you to end your feud with the Sampas family?
Tell me,
>maybe I can
help.".
You seemed to
indicate a willingness to act as go between with Nicosia and
Sampas. Do you see Sampas around town? Do you talk to him regularly? Are
you really in a
position to somehow try to broker a settlement?
I trust if you're
really in a position to do something positive you will make
the attempt and
keep all of us on the Beat-L posted.
What do you say?
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:15:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "E.j.C."
<beat@SKY.NET>
Subject: linux
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970511150757.00698810@pop.gpnet.it>
sorry to be
off-subject.
Just curious. How
many Linux users are there on Beat-L?
-j-EnnIfEr c.
> >Was
downtown (Cleveland) today for first meeting of Linux user's group, got
> >out at
noon and wife & I drove past rockhall to see Kesey etc. Nothing
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 13:05:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
At 11:24 AM
5/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Phil,
>
>Why are you
copying your own posts and then responding to your own words?
Is this supposed
to bolster your argument?
>
Jerry, I respond
by hitting reply on my mailbox and the entire text of
Gerry's message
appears. Then I use caps to make it easier for people to see
my response and I
even state that at the beginning of the post. I realize
that using all
caps is not proper netiquette. IT'S NOT SHOUTING. That is why
I make the
statement at the beginning of the post.
>
>Also, why not
try a new line of attack? Your constant
SHOUTING of the same
>themes adds
nothing new to the debate. You say Gerry
is trying to tear
>people down,
but that's all I see you doing... attacking him, and not very
>well at
that. Your posts look like an attempt to
simply take Nicosia "off
>message"...
to muddy up the works with empty accusations, forcing him to deal
>with issues
that have little to do with what is really important.
>
>Phil, why not
interject something Positive into the mix?
Whether he's
right or wrong
about the will being forged, Gerry is at least trying to do
what he can with
his attempt to keep the archives preserved forever.
Big deal he wants the archives preserved
forever. Everyone on this list
would like the
archives preserved forever. I would like all great authors
works preserved
forever. Does that make me some big hero? I also would like
all of Bill Gates
money to go to fighting aids. I would also like world
peace, to end
hunger, whatever. Why wouldn't you think John Sampas would
want the archive
preserved forever.
I AM doing something positive by
working hard with "Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac" to promote Kerouac. He is doing all he can to destroy
L.C.K. How, may I
ask is this helping his cause of getting the archives
preserved forever.
He wants John Sampas to give Paul Blake Jr. money when
Jan Kerouac
herself didn't leave him anything at all. She disinherited him.
> You even complimented him on that yourself in
your post dated 4/30/97.
What are you
doing besides hammering on Gerry? Phil, in that same post you
indicated you
wanted to help the situation in some fashion.
Your right I give
credit where credit is due. But if someone lies about the
facts constantly
and relates people to Hitler what hope is there of a mutual
agreement?
>>"What,
Gerry, will it take for you to end your feud with the Sampas
family? Tell me,maybe I can help.".
>You seemed to
indicate a willingness to act as go between with Nicosia and
>Sampas. Do you see Sampas around town? Do you talk to him regularly? Are
>you really in
a position to somehow try to broker a settlement?
Of course I know
him. Yes I see him around town. Yes I talk to him. Yes I'm
sure Gerry will
say that's why I am doing this. I am my own man and this is
what I believe not
what John Sampas tells me to say like Gerry would lead
you to believe. I
say what I think nobody puts me up to anything. Yes I am
in a position to
help but Gerry's position is that Stella is a criminal and
that she forged
the will. If you knew Stella Kerouac you would know how
ridiculously far
fetched this is. How can anyone smooth something like that
over? That is his
main argument and it is a preposterous and totally un
logical one.
Gerry is so frustrated by the fact that Jack didn't leave Jan
or Paul Blake
anything. Jack Kerouac is the only one to blame for this. Not
the Sampas
family.
Gerry knows quite
well that John Sampas has placed numerous items in the
Berg collection
at the NYPL. I have in front of me eight pages of items that
the Sampas family
has placed in the Berg collection of NYPL. Why does he
distort the truth
and act like the Sampas family has never done anything
good. He also knows that John didn't shut down the
archive at U-Lowell. But
he continues to
lie about the issues to make himself look like a big hero.
You tell me what
I can do and I will do everything I can but I have to say I
am very
pessimistic about the outcome.
>I trust if
you're really in a position to do something positive you will
make the attempt
and keep all of us on the Beat-L posted.
What do you say?
I say start by
telling Gerry to stop bashing people like L.C.K. I can assure
you many of the
hard working volunteers (especially the young ones) have
never even heard
of Nicosia or Sampas. So what does he want. Maybe we should
just dissolve the
entire organization and not promote Kerouac at all. Is
that what he
wants. Even if the Sampas family had never given one red cent
to promote the
festival. Gerry's agenda of promoting a lawsuit would not be
appropriate for a
Kerouac celebration and I think the members of the beat-l
would agree. Phil
Chaput-Lowell Mass.
P.S. By the way
can you send me catalog Jerry? My address is:
Philip Chaput
19 Wannalancit
St.
Lowell, Mass.01854
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 21:13:56 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: refrain
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970511170555.0068dd8c@pop.tiac.net>
Cari amici beat,
nella mia mente
si aggira questo ritornello
refrain
my darling child
my darling baby
my darling child
my darling baby
like a swing...
ripetuto
all'infinito,
ricorda la madre,
alla quale Giuseppe Ungaretti,
the poet who
stand up as friend with Allen Ginsberg,
dedica una poesia
bellissima che ora trascrivo:
LA MADRE
1930
E il cuore quando d'un ultimo battito
Avra' fatto cadere il muro d'ombra,
Per condurmi, Madre, sino al Signore,
Come una volta mi darai la mano.
In ginocchio, decisa,
Sarai una statua davanti all'Eterno,
Come gia' ti vedeva
Quando eri ancora in vita.
Alzerai tremante le vecchie braccia,
Come quando spirasti
Dicendo: Mio Dio, eccomi.
E solo quando m'avra' perdonato,
Ti verra' desiderio di guardarmi.
Ricorderai d'avermi atteso tanto,
E
avrai negli occhi un rapido sospiro.
i hope there's
an american
translation
of this
wonder poem,
yr rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 12:53:21 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Inadvertent message
I would like to
apologize for my late post last night--backchannel late
night ramblings
inadvertently posted to the list by this bumbling
Beatler
Happy Mothers Day
to the Mothers! and Frank Zappa.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 16:51:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mick Parsons
<mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970511170555.0068dd8c@pop.tiac.net>
hey all...
I've been
silently listening to this argument since it started, and while
i believe
wholeheartedly in free exchange and defense of postion, these
flamings (whether
intentional or not) aren't constructive to the probelm
at hand... Gerry,
and Phil have made both thier positions abundantly
clear, and I
think they both have their points... but at this point in the
discussion, there
is only 2 ways to proceed:
1) work towards
some kind of compromise, because it doens't look like
either side will
win, and all of us will lose out in the end.
2) walk away from
the table and leave it to the lawyers, becasue they're
the only ones who
will benefit from all this hooha, and agan, we ALL LOSE
OUT.
I am not trying
to jump on anyone's case, I just would like to see the
discusison go
somewhere besides in circles.
from the peanut
gallery,
mick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know the
passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred
of the
masses; but no respect for humanity, no
false modesty, no
conspiracy, no
universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the
unspeakable
jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."
Mick Parsons
-Baudelaire
mparsons@netcrafters.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 14:25:33 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Know beat, what of I do?
At 02:40 PM
5/11/97 +0200, you wrote:
> RANTS by a not competent beat
>
> dummy-run
> is dumb,
>
> dummy-run
> is bum
>
> dumb
is dummy
> dum
is bum
>
You're right, I
am beat Beat BEAT
Apologies Angels Avatars Anachronisms
Allegories
Not a one 'til we deme it so
I'm off. always a little off.
Please accept my ...uh... anachronisms?
Felicitations you
bring out the beat in me
Can do?
beater than this ....a
primal Survibrations
My Heart, a Slave? Beates
What do I know? Thee Creates
Those who watch us, tax us
Disciplinus -- do we learn? Latin word.
Quintessential Dan -is he quintessential
WASP
Is WASP quintenssental
Roman? Is color prettinent,
or else sound?
Aint Rancisco the pinnacle of evolution
other metro's
nipping jealously at the Golden Calves
Do Sugar Loaf Intentions count? (One...
two..., one two three ! Color!)
Lombardy misquoted? Win the
real game -- subscribe now!
What do I know of beat? My Heart,
a Slave?
Repeat a good line. I saw the best generations of my mind
Narcissus -tically.
If only I could see it your way
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
"We
recognize that there are no trivial occurrences in life if we get the
right focus on
them."
-- Mark Twain, 1906
quoted in _Susy and Mark Twain: Family Dialogues_
arranged and edited by Edith Colgate Salsbury
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 18:00:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970511170555.0068dd8c@pop.tiac.net>
>At 11:24 AM
5/11/97 -0400, you :
>Phil Chaput
wrote,
>But if
someone lies about the
>facts
constantly and relates people to Hitler what hope is there of a mutual
>agreement?
You should
re-read that post. You have it wrong.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443 visitors since July 1,
1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 19:36:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Pranksters hit Cleveland
Kesey and the
Pranksters hit Cleveland about 2:30 in the afternoon, just after
Donavan finished
a set (which I missed). A good size crowd cheered ( I am no
good at guessing
numbers) as they pulled up with about five people on the roof,
one waving a
large American flag. Ken Babbs took to the microphone for a bit
while they
de-bussed and answered some questions. Country Joe came on and did a
great set
including the Woodstock version of the FISH CHEER. After Joe the
Pranksters came
on and Ken led then in a version of G-L-O-R-I-A.
Big Brother and
the Holding Company finished up with a Janis clone who was
actually pretty
good. I thought it was a bit depressing though, to go and make
a living this way
with the Janis clone but hopefully, they do it only on
special
occaisions.
The reception was
from 7-9 and was fun because you got to see the musuem
menbers in their
glitzy wear contrasted with the Pranksters, still in
Prankster-wear. I
asked Ken Babbs about joining BEAT-L and he said
"Yeah...someday
maybe..." he was pretty tired and had had a few drinks so who
knows. Kesey was
asleep and showewd up later on and by that time, I forgot to
ask him about
joining BEAT-L. They fired up the "Thunder Machine" which is a
combination
go-cart and one-man-band. Ken was inside speaking through a
microphone which
boomed through the whole musuem. Babbs was another microphone
while someone
plucked on some stings on the side while another beat on the
built-in drum.
The few leftover Pranksters took some of Ken's weed and fired up
a big bowl, damn,
it was a pretty fine time, the food was good and the booze
was un-limited.
AS for the
exhibit, I WANT TO TAKE YOU HIGHER, is well worth a look if you are
in the Cleveland
area. It was not as extensive as I thought but what they had
was great....Some
Hunter Thompson letters, the guitar Lennon used during his
and Yoko's 8 day
bed-in, a lot of Bill Graham's stuff, Mouse Studio posters,
you get the
picture...
Finally, Kesey's
play TWISTER will open in NYC in about a month. Viking will
release the combo
book and video at about the same time. Excuse the lame
description of
the events but I am still a bit tired. When I finally left the
reception, the
bus was still parked out front in the dark, except for a black
light inside that
made the whole day-glo interior catch on fire, ah, what a
sight that was.
My daughter kissed the bus on the hood before a guard chased us
away.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 17:04:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's archive
.... You might want to be careful about saying
that Columbia didn't have
>a chance to buy
the collection....
>As far as
selling to the Japanese, I'm wondering if you thought that
>statement
over before you said it? Why would it be
wrong for a Japanese
>University to
buy the Ginsberg or Kerouac collection?
It would be more
>inconvenient
for you or me to use the materials, but easier for Japanese
>scholars. Isn't this pretty close to being a racist
comment?.....
....Your earlier
mention that Allen
>"refused"
to help Jan puzzled me a little. Did he
really "refuse" or was he
>just too busy
to respond to your request at that time.
Doesn't really sound
>like Allen to
refuse to help anyone, does it?....
>
>Yours,
>Bill Morgan
>
Dear Bill, May 11, 1997
I didn't say Ginsberg shouldn't have
sold his archive to Stanford.
I just said the
fact that Columbia was going to be upset by the fact that
they
"lost" it was reason enough for Allen to keep his negotiations
secret.
I'm still waiting
for Mr. Sampas or his supporters to explain WHY--if he is
indeed engaged in
secret negotiations with the NY Public Library--HE TOO
NEEDS TO KEEP HIS
NEGOTIATIONS SECRET?
As for the Japanese, Allen and I were
talking about PRIVATE JAPANESE
COLLECTORS, not
Japanese universities. With a Chinese
daughter, I'd be the
last person to
make racist remarks against the Asians!
But I do think that
the Beats are
AMERICAN cultural treasures, and I think their archives ought
to remain here,
if possible, just as I deplore the continual smuggling of
Italian
Renaissance masterpieces out of Italy by some of the big auction
houses--because
the paintings bring more money outside of Italy.
I wrote Allen well in advance of the
Jan Kerouac benefits. He
didn't answer. So
I called him, and he started screaming at me that he "had
no money to
give." I told him we didn't want
money; we just wanted him to
donate something,
even a book. He then fell back on the
argument that he
couldn't
"get involved, couldn't take sides," even though I explained the
money would also
help Jan with medical expenses.
Not only did Allen never send anything
for the auction, he told
several people
not to help Jan. He told Herb Gold to
stay away from the
benefits (I have
this direct from Herb Gold), and he told Gary Snyder not to
perform after I'd
sought Gary's assistance. (I don't have
that direct from
Gary, but have it
from folksinger Utah Phillips, who's Gary's neighbor and
friend. Utah did come down to SF and perform for
Jan.)
Allen was a great man and a great
writer, but I will resist the
attempts to deify
him (just as I've never deified Kerouac, who had a huge
dark side, was
enormously self-destructive, and hurt a lot of the people in
his life,
including his daughter Jan). Allen had
lots of blind sides (women
represented a big
one), and at times he had amazing gaps of compassion (he
was not a saint,
sorry). Ask some of Corso's friends,
like George Scrivani,
how they feel
Ginsberg let Gregory down over and over again.
Allen's rejection of his goddaughter Jan
remains one of the cruelest
things he ever
did--especially when he waved police on to take her out of
NYU, where she
had asked to speak for only 5 minutes.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 20:13:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Robert Peters brilliant piece
Comments: To:
stand666@bitstream.net
Richard:
When the arts are
determined by parks departments and we honor our poets
through
ticketmasters and Moloch, the CIA, and the academe are one, Robert
Peters becomes a
big bad wolf.
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 20:48:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's archive
Comments: To:
gnicosia@earthlink.net
In a message
dated 97-05-11 20:30:50 EDT, you write:
<< Allen
had lots of blind sides (women
represented a big one), and at times he had
amazing gaps of compassion (he
was not a saint, sorry). Ask some of Corso's friends, like George
Scrivani,
how they feel Ginsberg let Gregory down over
and over again.
Allen's rejection of his goddaughter
Jan remains one of the cruelest
things he ever did--especially when he waved
police on to take her out of
NYU, where she had asked to speak for only 5
minutes.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em. >>
Gerry:
Those amazing
gaps of compassion made our relationships with Allen eventually
cordial. Maybe
that was the best way. He sat at Burroughs' dinner table and
edited a poem of
James and one of mine. Someone mentioned that that wasn't
necessary and he
joked and said that's what I do for a living. It seemed then
that I was
talking to his father, Louis. It appeared then that he was trying
to "put many
things in order", he even mentioned an old quarrel about Peter
inspecting the
beams in my house and said it was Ed the Hermit's idea which
was surprising to
me because it had nothing to do with much of anything
except his
interpertation. There was a time I could scream at him for what I
perceived as
hiprocrisy, but maybe it all just comes to an end with just
correcting the
manuscripts. To think just how far his gaps of compassion
could reach
would, in Pound's words, "trouble my sleep".
Charles Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 18:02:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
.....
1)Why wouldn't
you think John Sampas would
>want the
archive preserved forever....
> ....2) He is doing all he can to destroy
>L.C.K....3)
He wants John Sampas to give Paul Blake Jr. money when
>Jan Kerouac
herself didn't leave him anything at all. She disinherited him....
4) Yes I am
>in a position
to help but Gerry's position is that Stella is a criminal and
>that she
forged the will....That is his main argument....
>5) I have in
front of me eight pages of items that
>the Sampas
family has placed in the Berg collection of NYPL. Why does he
>distort the
truth and 6) act like the Sampas family has never done anything
>good. 7) He
also knows that John didn't shut down the archive at U-Lowell. But
>he continues
to lie about the issues to make himself look like a big hero....
>
>8) I say
start by telling Gerry to stop bashing people like L.C.K....9)
Gerry's agenda of
promoting a lawsuit would not be
>appropriate
for a Kerouac celebration .... Phil Chaput-Lowell Mass.
Dear Phil, May 11, 1997
In the heat of the night here a few
nights ago, exhausted and
punchy, I called
you a liar. Next morning I immediately
apologized. I
realized that a
word like "lie" or "liar" is inflammatory, and this debate
needs to be
cooled down. But you turn right around
and call me a "liar" and
add insult to
injury, claiming once again that I'm just a glory-seeker. My
record of Beat
scholarship, writings, and lectures represents years and
years of hard,
hard work. I hardly need to defend
myself on that score.
But you continually put false words in
my mouth; make false
assertions; and
make me waste hours and hours of my time refuting things I
never even said
in the first place. Whether or not John
Sampas has put you
up to this, it
certainly works to his advantage, when right now I need to be
doing a lot of
other things besides unsaying things I never said.
It's like I'm going to wake up tomorrow
morning and find that you
have claimed:
"Gerry Nicosia wants to see John
Sampas shot by a firing squad.
"Gerry Nicosia has advocated the
city of Lowell be burned to the ground.
"Gerry Nicosia has earned ten
million dollars by working for Jan
Kerouac."
So then I have to patiently explain how
I never said or did any of
those things.
Come on! You can't expect me to play this game
forever. And I'm
not going
to. I will proceed to demolish your
credibility right here, and I
ask Beat-List
readers to realize that, if I don't answer Mr. Chaput's next
25 charges, it is
because they have as little to do with reality as the
above ones:
(Please note: I have added numbers to
Mr. Chaput's arguments to make
my refutation
clearer.)
1)
John Sampas refused to cooperate with Weinberg's attempt to sell
Kerouac's archive
to the Bancroft. Sampas stood up Tom
Staley, from the U.
of Texas, who had
come to Mass. to discuss acquiring Kerouac's archive for
the Humanities
Research Center. Mr. Sampas still claims
he wishes the
material to go
into the New York Public Library, but after 6 years he still
hasn't signed
even a "statement of intention."
In the meantime, he has sold
off hundreds of
pieces of the Kerouac archive to private dealers and
collectors. That's why.
2) Let's get this STRAIGHT, Phil. YOU brought Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac! into
this argument, not me. As one of your
personal attacks on me,
you grouched that
I had never donated money to LCK! So I
proceeded to tell
you why I had never
donated to them, which is principally because they have
been a one-sided,
partisan affair (a mouthpiece for the Sampas family) from
the very
beginning. And the National Park Service
has been sent numerous
complaints to
this effect.
3) Jan did not disinherit Paul
Blake. She did not put him in her
will because SHE
FULLY EXPECTED TO SEE HER CASE AGAINST THE SAMPSES GO TO
TRIAL in a few
months, to win in Florida, and to share the winnings with
Paul Blake,
Jr. She knew that if Stella's will was
disqualified, Paul would
get a full third
of the multi-million dollar estate. It
was more important
at the time for
her to provide for her exhusband, who is a struggling
writer, and her
half-brother, who is quite poor and raising a young son.
Like Jack, Jan
did not expect to die as quickly as she did.
Had she lost in
Florida, I'm sure
she would have put Paul into her will.
Besides, she gave the Blake family
considerable financial assistance
while she was
alive. She bought hundreds of dollars of
clothing for Paul
Jr's homeless
son, Paul III, in Nevada, and she gave Paul a couple of
thousand dollars
to buy tools for his trade and to get his teeth fixed. She
would have done
more had she been able to afford it--and had Mr. Sampas not
been chipping
away at her income.
4)
I never said anywhere that STELLA SAMPAS FORGED GABRIELLE'S
WILL. My position is that until further handwriting
analysis is done, WE
DON'T KNOW WHO
FORGED THE WILL. This is PURE PHIL
CHAPUT invention, and I'm
growing damned
tired of it.
5) Rodney Phillips showed me that list,
and almost everything on it
was XEROXES of
letters, etc., not original manuscript.
See my earlier post
to Attila about
why xeroxes are much less useful for textual scholarship.
6) I never said "the Sampas family
never did anything good." AGAIN,
THIS IS YOU
PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH AGAIN. I just
finished a post a few
nights ago saying
how much help Tony Sampas had given me on my biography,
and how much I
appreciated Tony's nonpartisan spirit.
7) Martha Mayo, librarian at U Mass,
Lowell, Special Collections,
has thus far
GIVEN ME THE NAME OF ONLY ONE PERSON WHO OBJECTED TO PUBLIC
ACCESS TO THE
MEMORY BABE COLLECTION: JOHN SAMPAS. If
there are others,
let's have her
finally reveal them!
8) Again, guy, you, not me, dragged
LCK! into this.
9) Now we have the "MR. CHAPUT
CONVENIENTLY IGNORES EVERYTHING I'VE
SAID IN PAST
POSTS" trick. I have repeatedly
reminded Mr. Chaput that the
Lowell Kerouac
Committee practiced A POLICY OF EXCLUSION TOWARDS ME AND JAN
FROM ITS
INCEPTION IN 1988. Jan's lawsuit was not
filed until mid-1994.
For the tired Beat-List readers, I'll
try to conclude all these
exchanges soon
with a big over-view, and get us out of this smoke and mire
of nonsense
charges that Mr. Chaput is promoting.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 19:57:05 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Real name
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: ESTATE DETAILS You guys are so
> In the heat of the night here a few
nights ago, exhausted and
>punchy, I
called you a
<respectful snip>
> But you turn right around and call me a
<respectful snip>
Deep,
linear, alone
can't break free of plodding over the
deep muddy landcape.
by all means keep calling...deep minds,
soaring souls, nutty genius
I am too direct..."U now know all, see
all, ...28 deep breaths 4 U"
...the pain & fear, we all
go through.
Self-control is too good a censor
for me but I hustle
to make her stay...lest I be
trouble. Interior design the
pulsing mental room.
What INPUTS-- a moderated mind
is everyone's right
.
My 1/20th of a cent worth....do please keep calling
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
"We
recognize that there are no trivial occurrences in life if we get the
right focus on
them."
-- Mark Twain, 1906
quoted in _Susy and Mark Twain: Family Dialogues_
arranged and edited by Edith Colgate Salsbury
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 21:00:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: correction
To all followers
of the Great Debate:
I made an inadvertent slip in my last
post, "Re: Estate Details."
On point 3) I wrote that "Jan knew
that if Stella's will was
disqualified,
Paul would get a full third of the multi-million dollar estate."
Of course what I meant to write was
"if Gabrielle's will was
disqualified." Stella's will has never been an issue.
Just tired.
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 20:57:31 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"Pranksters hit Cleveland"@cruzio.com
Thank you Dave.
This is some lame description. I am still a bit
disoriented. I
feel like I am witnessing/participaing in a privileged
historic moment
all over again. It too will grow as life goes on. I sure
am glad of the
reality of our list, the depth of feeling and, etc. Thank
you Bill Gargan
for your wision and energy to start all this. We will
come out of the morass
yet, including fogged dreams that shadow us.
leon
>MORE OXY THAN
MORON wrote:
>
> Kesey and
the Pranksters hit Cleveland about 2:30 in the afternoon,
> just after
Donavan finished a set (which I missed). A good size crowd cheered
( I am > > no good at guessing numbers)
as they pulled up with about five
people on the roof,
> one waving a
large American flag. Ken Babbs took to the microphone for a bit
> while they
de-bussed and answered some questions. Country Joe came on and did
a
> great set
including the Woodstock version of the FISH CHEER. After Joe the
> Pranksters
came on and Ken led then in a version of G-L-O-R-I-A.
>
> Big Brother
and the Holding Company finished up with a Janis clone who was
> actually
pretty good. I thought it was a bit depressing though, to go and make
> a living
this way with the Janis clone but hopefully, they do it only on
> special
occaisions.
>
> The
reception was from 7-9 and was fun because you got to see the musuem
> menbers in
their glitzy wear contrasted with the Pranksters, still in
>
Prankster-wear. I asked Ken Babbs about joining BEAT-L and he said
>
"Yeah...someday maybe..." he was pretty tired and had had a few
drinks so who
> knows. Kesey
was asleep and showewd up later on and by that time, I forgot to
> ask him
about joining BEAT-L. They fired up the "Thunder Machine" which is a
> combination
go-cart and one-man-band. Ken was inside speaking through a
> microphone
which boomed through the whole musuem. Babbs was another microphone
> while
someone plucked on some stings on the side while another beat on the
> built-in
drum. The few leftover Pranksters took some of Ken's weed and fired
up
> a big bowl,
damn, it was a pretty fine time, the food was good and the booze
> was un-limited.
>
> AS for the
exhibit, I WANT TO TAKE YOU HIGHER, is well worth a look if you are
> in the
Cleveland area. It was not as extensive as I thought but what they had
> was
great....Some Hunter Thompson letters, the guitar Lennon used during his
> and Yoko's 8
day bed-in, a lot of Bill Graham's stuff, Mouse Studio posters,
> you get the
picture...
>
> Finally,
Kesey's play TWISTER will open in NYC in about a month. Viking will
> release the
combo book and video at about the same time. Excuse the lame
> description
of the events but I am still a bit tired. When I finally left the
> reception,
the bus was still parked out front in the dark, except for a black
> light inside
that made the whole day-glo interior catch on fire, ah, what a
> sight that
was. My daughter kissed the bus on the hood before a guard chased
us
> away.
>
> Dave B.
> .-
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 21:39:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: name game
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS I immediatley cooled
down
.....
1)Why wouldn't
you think
He is doing
money when
I am
>in a position
that is forged
argument....
>distort the
truth
has never done
anything
>good.
shut down the
the issues
like big hero....
>
start by
bashing people
promoting
>appropriate
celebration
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 21:56:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS You guys are so
>My 1/20th
of a cent worth....do please keep
calling
>www.ellensburg.com/~digress
>
>"We
recognize that there are no trivial occurrences in life if we get the
>right focus
on them."
>
> -- Mark Twain, 1906
> quoted in _Susy and Mark Twain: Family Dialogues_
> arranged and edited by Edith Colgate Salsbury
>
Dear Ellensburg
caller: May 11, 1997
Jan Kerouac dwelt in Ellensburg, Washington,
for many years. Did
you know her?
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:26:24 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS You guys are so
At 09:56 PM
5/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>My 1/20th
of a cent worth....do please keep
calling
>>www.ellensburg.com/~digress
>>
>>"We
recognize that there are no trivial occurrences in life if we get the
>>right
focus on them."
>>
>> -- Mark Twain, 1906
>> quoted in _Susy and Mark Twain: Family Dialogues_
>> arranged and edited by Edith Colgate Salsbury
>>
>Dear
Ellensburg caller: May 11, 1997
> Jan Kerouac dwelt in Ellensburg,
Washington, for many years. Did
>you know her?
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
Dear Gerry,
Wow! Far as I know have not become
acquainted. Silly me. Cool!
Someone here will
know her, I guess.
Wishes,
Mike
http://www.ellensburg.com/~digress/gowhence.htm
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
"We
recognize that there are no trivial occurrences in life if we get the
right focus on
them."
-- Mark Twain, 1906
quoted in _Susy and Mark Twain: Family Dialogues_
arranged and edited by Edith Colgate Salsbury
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:33:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: Rolling Stone's tribute to Allen Ginsberg
Well, Rolling
Stone finally pulled through with quite a nice spread as a
tribute to Allen
Ginsberg in their new issue which subscribers got
yesterday. They
talked to everybody. EVERYbody. (Except for Dylan for some
strange
reason.) I don't even want to spoil the
surprises, so just look
for the new
issue.
Cheers,
Malcs
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 01:24:15 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: to make me a fool is too easy
Wink?
Not start bashing
people...no..no
At 09:39 PM
5/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
>.....
>1)Why
wouldn't you think
>
>He is doing
>money when
>I am
>>in a
position that is forged
>argument....
>
>
>>distort
the truth
>has never
done anything
>>good.
>shut down the
>the issues
>like big
hero....
>>
>start by
>bashing
people
>
>
>promoting
>
>>appropriate
>celebration
>
>
>
>>
>
>
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
"We
recognize that there are no trivial occurrences in life if we get the
right focus on
them."
-- Mark Twain, 1906
quoted in _Susy and Mark Twain: Family Dialogues_
arranged and edited by Edith Colgate Salsbury
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:51:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
Ginsberg's archive
Dear Gerry:
Thanks for
filling in the picture about Allen's refusal to send something for
your Jan K.
benefit. You certainly seem entitled to
use the word "refused",
so sorry to have
mentioned it. I do think that Allen, although
far from
being a saint,
was generous almost to a fault, and regardless of what you
might have heard
was the greatest supporter of Gregory Corso for over 40
years. Your other points are well taken but again
there is a big difference
between art works
smuggled out of other countries for sale in auction houses
and the sale of a
Beat item to someone in another country.
I disagree with
you that the
Beats are an American treasure, still think that international
influences and
associations makes them world treasures.
Good luck in your
projects.
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:21:45 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
I just picked
this CD up the other day ("Kicks, Joy, Darkness", released by
Ryko), have mixed
responses to it, and am wondering how others feel. It's a
collection of
folks like AG, WSB, Hunter S. Thompson, Lee Ranaldo, Johnny Depp,
Matt Dillion, and
others all reading Jack's work. Some is
set to some
(interesting,
but) good music . . . but I think some of the reading stinks. AG,
of course, does a
great job, as does WSB and some others (I like Ranaldo's
work), but
Michael Stipe (REM lead singer) does a really poor job . . . should
stick to the
music he writes/sings. His reading
seemed so lifeless. Usually
collections like
this are mostly good with a few bad cuts, or the other way
around. In Kicks, Joy, Darkness, though, some are
very good, and others are
very (VERY) bad.
What do others
think?
Regards,
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:26:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone's tribute to Allen
Ginsberg
Dylan seems to
really be private when it comes to his friends dying. I don't
remember if he
released a public statement when Jerry Garcia died, but a
friend of mine
was at the private ceremony for JG and said that Dylan was very
upset at the
death of his friend. I only remember him
making one statement
when someone died
and that was at the death of Roy Orbison and all he said
was that Roy was
an opera singer and had the greatest voice.
I think Dylan's
silence is not indicative of anything except a painful sense
of loss.
Paul McDonald
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:43:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Driving Through Mythical America
Hey Antoine, yeh
you got it... I nearly attributed it then I thought who the
hell even on this
wonderful list would ever have heard of Pete Atkin. He
made four or five
albums, all with similar weird (and sometimes very
pretentious, but
hey I was only 14) lyrics. There was a wonderful track
called
"Wristwatch For A Drummer" about Max Roach and jazz drummers.. Pete
Atkin is now a
senior producer at the BBC, Clive James of course went on to
megastardom on
TV. Saw them perform both together live in Cambridge too, an
album of parodies
of songsters of the time with especially a brilliant James
Taylor
impersonation (remember him). Ah, nostalgia. Sorry for no Beat
content everyone
else.
Nick
>Nick,
>
> I jumped when I saw "On The Road with Jack and Neal and a
>couple of
cute furry friends Driving Through Mythical America!" You grew up
>in England,
right? I was jerked back to 1971 and a great weird recording
>called
"Driving Through Mythical America" - lyrics by Clive James, singing
>by Pete
Atkin. The title song was a road song dealing partly with Kent
>State....
nothin' Beat about it htough although a cool song.
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:33:35 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863453001@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
wes & co.
sure i agree some
of the tracks are gonna be played infrequently around
here too esp. the
julianna hatfield "silly goofball poems" (a little too
"cute"
for me, but...) and personally i think that the HSThompson piece is
quite fantastic
esp when thot of at %:00am w/ his lawyer , etc. genius.
the stipe track
is a little flat but i think that it some how fits with
stipes singing -
usually quite like the vocals on "my gang" no? and y'know
also the eddie
vedder track is a little lame, but... on the whole quite an
accomplishment -
and that visions of cody track by robert hunter - what
inspiration, wow!
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:11:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.93.970512083023.32228A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
On Mon, 12 May
1997, Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:
> sure i agree
some of the tracks are gonna be played infrequently around
> here too
esp. the julianna hatfield "silly goofball poems" (a little too
>
"cute" for me, but...)
yeah i thought
this and the vedder track were the worst... also, the maggie
estep reading was
absolutely totally amazing, blew me away.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:17:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stone's tribute to A.G./Dylan-Garcia
At 10:26 AM
5/12/97 -0400, Paul McDonald wrote:
>Dylan seems
to really be private when it comes to
>his friends
dying. I don'tremember if he released
>a public
statement when Jerry Garcia died, but a
>friend of
mine was at the private ceremony for JG
>and said that
Dylan was very upset at the death of his
>friend.
Here uze go:
>We discovered
that Bob Dylan had more to say about
>Jerry Garcia
than what we printed the other day. So here
>is the full
text of Dylan's comments: "There's no way to
>measure his
greatness or magnitude as a person or as
>a player. I
don't think any eulogizing will do him
>justice. He
was that great, much more than a superb
>musician with
an uncanny ear and dexterity.
>He is the
very spirit personified of whatever is muddy
>river country
at its core and screams up
>into the
spheres. He really had no equal. To me he
>wasn't only a
musician and a friend, he was
>more like a
big brother who taught and showed me
>more than
he'll ever know. There's a lot of spaces and
>advances
between the Carter family, Buddy Holly and
>say, Ornette
Coleman, a lot of universes, but he filled
>them all
without being a member of any school. His
>playing was
moody, awesome, sophisticated, hypnotic
>and subtle. There's
no way to convey the loss. It just
>digs down
real deep."
This is from,
"Music News of the World - August 15,
1995"
http://www.addict.com/MNOTW/95-08-15.html
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:49:53 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Clay Vaughan
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re:
Kicks, Joy, Darkness
I agree there are
going to be the rarely played cuts, but I'd have to
say among the
highs for me were the Strummer/Kerouac "collaboration"
(a great bit of
editing work there), Burroughs' Western piece, and I
was surprised to
like both the Warren Zevon reading as well as
Depp's, though it
was probably the work itself as much as the
reading; it's
just plain hard to fail with works such as they
read. And as far
as music aside from the jazz-based accompaniments,
John Cale's translation
of "The Moon" is incredible in its sense of
isolation. Lydia
Lunch, too, added quite an edge to the piece she
did.
And weirdly, I
didn't mind the Hatfield number so much. And it IS a
little cutesy,
but in relation to so many dark performances on the CD,
it's a welcome
contrast. It shows off Kerouac's considerable sense of
humor and zen
lunacy.
Clay Vaughan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:32:05 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
derek, clay, and
anybody else interested in this thread...
I agree that the
Juliana (forgot last name) reading is far too cutesy, but see
Clay's point that
it might be refreshing (but, sorry Clay, I agree with derek on
that one). I especially like WSB's reading, and Allen Ginsberg's,
but now I'm
wondering if
that's because I like to listen to both of them read...??? Hmmm.
That brings me to
another question: do I not like some of the readings because
they deviate too
much from the sound of Jack's voice in my inner ear. I've
listened to him
read quite a bit, and now read with his work with his pattern.
derek: Not being
very familiar with Hunter Thompson (with him, yes, but not his
work), is that
typical of his readings? You praise
it. I can't. Is it a case
of "if you
like him, you'll like anything he does"?
It just seemed so . . .
unorganized,
unplanned, ungood. I didn't feel like it
did the work justice...
seemed so, oh,
unholy! I got a feeling in HST of
"okay, fuck, if I have to read
this, let me get
it over with." Some of that comes
from his under-the-breath
comments.
On Stipe's
reading: yes, it IS like his singing.
But that's the problem I have
with it. It works in his songs, with REM's music, but
it didn't work here. It
just rang hollow
. . . not depressing, not artistically reflective of the work--
just hollow.
I do like the
Johhny Depp reading, although I hate to admit it (don't ask me
why, I just don't
like him).
Still, I would
recommend this CD to at least listen to, if not buy. If you're a
fan of Sonic
Youth, this is a must buy as most of the music is similar (of
course, there's
Lee Ranaldo to help with that).
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 09:43:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Shannon L. Stephens"
<shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863460932@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
A thread I can
get into.
Let me say this
re: kicks, joy....
The jim
caroll/Mr. Morphine guy WOMAN bit is fantastic.
I want to put it
on my answering machine.
I wish to have it
read at my funeral.
Like a
hankerchief in the wind-
Shan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:56:00 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863460932@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
On Mon, 12 May
1997, Wes Lundburg wrote:
> derek: Not
being very familiar with Hunter Thompson (with him, yes, but not
his
> work), is
that typical of his readings? You praise
it. I can't. Is it a
case
> of "if
you like him, you'll like anything he does"? It just seemed so . . .
> unorganized,
unplanned, ungood. I didn't feel like it
did the work justice...
> seemed so,
oh, unholy! I got a feeling in HST of
"okay, fuck, if I have to
read
> this, let me
get it over with." Some of that comes
from his under-the-breath
> comments.
wes,
uh well yr right
about the wsb reading - its just incredible (more & more
tracks now
rushing to my head about this cd, wit it not in front of me, me
trapped at work,
egad!) anyway - contrasting the wsb "western" reading of
"old western
movies" with kerouac's singing, floating version as on the
kerouac box set.
as for hst - how
could you be familiar with him but not his work? and well
his voice ive
never heard his voice before this cd, and its exactly what i
thot it would
sound like. the 5:00am rush somehow fits with his books, etc
and i think that
i would have been disappointed with something done sober
in the daylight,
no?
and yr right
about the unorganized thing im sure that he just realized
that oh shit
gotta do this and so lets just do it, now, in the moment (a
la jack no?) and
the style i think was perfect thompson especially the
feedback crash at
the end of his little reading, y'know? ( i wonder if his
poem was improv -
"4 dogs went into the widerness, only 3 came back. 3
dogs died of
guiny worm, the other dies of you - jack kerouac" etc etc.
yrs
derek
ps: does any one
have other recordings of hunter reading, etc? and any
comments on the
newly released book of hst letters _proud highway_ (which
seems to be vol.1
of 3!!)
d
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:09:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: linux
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.GSO.3.93.970511111334.19032B-100000@sky.net>
J--
> Just
curious. How many Linux users are there on Beat-L?
I doubt very many
(yet), but it's cool to see that at least someone else on
the list is.
When I went to
Naropa a few summers ago I checked out the Beat Book Store in
Boulder. Pretty
cool place -- I got lost browsing through lots and lots of
Beat and
otherwise countercultural books, but some of the top books on my
wantlist that
summer weren't Beat at all -- namely, Terence McKenna's 2013
mushroom treatise
and Ted Nelson's _Literary Machines_ and _Computer Lib_.
The latter is the
first countercultural computer book (ca. '74) and the
former is a good
outline of the hypertext systems of the future. Since the
one book was at
least in the Whole Earth Review sphere of things and the
other was about
future electronic writing systems I figured there was at
least a chance
they'd have them at the BBS (couldn't find them in any
mainstream
outlets, that's for sure). But when I asked the proprietor
(sitting on a
chair wearing a Kerouac shirt) he looked at me like I was
rambling incoherently
during the final stages of a shroom comedown, barely
letting out a
"No, we ain't got no _computer_ books here," before
quietly laughing
to himself.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:15:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863460932@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
On Mon, 12 May
1997, Wes Lundburg wrote:
> derek: Not
being very familiar with Hunter Thompson (with him, yes, but not
his
> work), is
that typical of his readings? You praise
it. I can't. Is it a
case
> of "if
you like him, you'll like anything he does"? It just seemed so . . .
> unorganized,
unplanned, ungood.
I thought it
pretty typical HST. In readings etc. he comes off as a drunken,
doped-up slob
(which he probably is), but his writing is very fine. Even
through all his
shenanigans there's a certain precision which comes through
in all his
writings, and I'm not sure you get it during his spoken word,
where the drunken
craziness is more in the forefront.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:40:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: British Beats
No-one came up
with much in the quest for British Beats. But I just read
that the novelist
Will Self was hired to cover the recebt election for a
newspaper to give
an unorthodox viewpoint, and was fired after one article
after admitting
taking heroin in the toilet of the Prime Minister's campaign
jet. Dunno about
his writing, but that seemed an indisputably Beat act.
Nick
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:56:05 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Clay Vaughan
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
Wes, I've been
having those same thoughts, questioning my reasons for
liking some
pieces and not others... I mean, I feel fairly secure
that the work is
driven ultimately by the words, and then by the
speaker, although
it's true that Kerouac's delivery of his own work
is unsurpassed
and probably the primary reason why the Strummer piece
is so good in my
mind.
And too, you're
right; I basically LIKE hearing Ginsberg and
Burroughs read,
whatever it is, though lately, hearing Ginsberg read
Mexico City
Blues, I found myself tiring of him probably for the
first time. No
dislike there, but it was a case of hearing Kerouac
read some of
those same poems and KNOWING how they sound coming out
of Kerouac's
mind.... and then this happened again on Brooklyn Bridge
Blues, and in my
mind I was hearing Kerouac and his mind and humor,
though in the
words some of this was a little lacking in Ginsberg's
recitation. No
dire comment, this, just an observation.
Clay
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:07:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Overview, Part One
Dear Beat-List
folks: May 12, 1997
A few days ago there was a post from
Leon Tabory, deporing the "very
tasteless,
rude" interruption that I had caused in his daily reading of
Beat-List
postings, by precipitating a flood of Estate Fight messages.
Let me assure Mr. Tabory that this will
not go on forever. In fact,
I am on the verge
of calling a halt to it right now. I do
believe that,
after six years'
work on a major biography, the only critical biography, of
Kerouac, and many
more years writing articles and lecturing about the Beats
at libraries,
bookstores, and not a few universities, I earned a right to
speak out here
for a couple of weeks.
Mr. Rod Anstee, who seems to have
disappeared from the list, was
actually one of
the prime causes of my appearance here.
Since 1983 (if
memory serves
right) Mr. Anstee has been contacting me for help with his
writing
projects. I have supplied him with
countless documents, names,
addresses, phone
numbers, etc., to help him along. I have
also praised his
textual
scholarship on some of Kerouac's works, such as MEXICO CITY BLUES.
A few years ago
Mr. Anstee let me know that he was archiving all my letters
and papers, and
so I told him he could become a repository for all the
documents I had
regarding the Kerouac Estate Fight. To
all intents and
appearances, Mr.
Anstee spoke and acted as if he were my friend.
Then Mr. Joe Grant informed me that Mr.
Anstee was saying some very
nasty things
about me on the Beat-List. Mr. Grant is
a writer and publisher
of the highest
integrity, who fought the prison system at Fort Leavenworth
and a great many
other very tough causes throughout his life; he is hardly a
patsy whom I have
brainwashed, as Mr. Anstee would have you believe. The
things Rod was
saying were not only "nasty"--which Rod has chosen as his
email name--but
dangerously misleading and, at times, out-and-out wrong.
There are names for a person who says
they are your friend, and then
attacks you
behind your back. None of those names
are pretty, and I won't
repeat them here.
It occurred to me immediately that Mr.
Anstee had probably sent my
whole file of
documents down to Mr. Sampas. While that
will certainly make
Sampas's legal
maneuvering easier, I have nothing to hide, and they can
spend the next
1000 hours burrowing through all my papers, if they wish,
seeking something
scurrilous I have said about the Sampases, or something
self-incriminating. They won't find it.
I have never sought to hurt Mr. Sampas. I have even had people tell
me, "Won't
it be great?! If you win in Florida,
you'll get to watch Sampas
squirm!" My reply is always: "I'll be happy to
see Jack Kerouac's papers
preserved, and
I'll be happy to see actual Kerouac's (like Paul Blake) get
some benefit from
the great writer's estate." That
will be the sum total of
my reaction. If Mr. Sampas is unhappy over losing some
money (which is all
he stands to
lose), I will not crow about it, nor rejoice at his misery. I
have spent too many
years learning to practice Christian teachings to allow
myself to hate
another human being, or to gloat over someone else's
suffering--both
of which only hurt the person who bears the grudge.
As for Mr. Anstee, he has repeatedly
pointed out my supposed selfish
motives in all
this. But I felt it was duplicitous for
him to question my
motives while
failing to tell the Beat-List readers that he had met
privately with
John Sampas and purchased several items from Jack Kerouac's
archive for his
(Anstee's) personal collection. There is
no doubt that he
would love to
purchase some more, but he must first win his way back into
Mr. Sampas's
favor. And there is, apparently, no
better way to ingratiate
oneself with John
Sampas than to attack Gerald Nicosia.
By the way, Mr. Anstee has not resold
HIS KEROUAC PURCHASES to the
New York Public
Library. In fact, most of the people who
purchased Kerouac
items from Sampas
have not resold them to any library. I
have followed the
history of several
of these items out here in California, and they have
gotten divvied up
and resold from collector to collector, often at the big
antiquarian
bookseller shows.
This brings me round to the BIG ISSUE,
which all the smoke and
mirrors from amateur
(but persistent) magician Phil Chaput have sought to
obscure. I refer to Phil as an amateur not to put him
down, but to clearly
reveal his
credentials, just as I have now revealed Anstee's.
Phil Chaput is not recognized as a
scholar anywhere, to the best of
my
knowledge. I am recognized as a
preeminent literary and Kerouac scholar
around the
world. My point is not to boast; my
point is only this: that I
certainly know a
lot more about the requirements of literary scholarship
than Mr. Chaput.
A literary scholar needs access to
every note, every notebook, and
every draft of a
manuscript before he can write sound, in-depth analysis of
a work. When I was at the New York Public Library
with Jan, for example, we
saw a few of Kerouac's
hand-printed notebooks for a small section of
DESOLATION
ANGELS. Mr. Phillips could not say
whether they had come
directly from
John Sampas. But if I were a scholar
working on a textual
study of
DESOLATION ANGELS, I would need the entire first draft of that
novel, plus all
the RETYPED DRAFTS (and I know by Jack's letters that there
were
several). Moreover, I would like access
to all the little
breast-pocket
notebooks and all the correspondence he wrote (carbon copies)
and all the
letters he received that dealt with it.
I'd also like to look
at what books
Kerouac was reading while he was writing DESOLATION ANGELS,
and I'd check out
every marginal note Kerouac made in other people's books
during that
period.
Again, the New York Public Library now
has the notebooks that MEXICO
CITY BLUES were
hand-printed in. Mr. Anstee got to see
these notebooks, and
they enabled him
to do some marvelous literary criticism, because they
showed that
Kerouac often wrote the choruses out of sequence and wrote
letters and other
sketches in between them. But to do an
even better
analysis, we
would need to see the various RETYPED DRAFTS of the book, and
to the best of my
knowledge, THOSE ARE NOT IN THE LIBRARY.
Nor are all the
other types of
material that I mentioned in the paragraph above.
Much of this ancillary material has
already been sold off, and can
never be
recaptured in one place. If John Sampas is sincere about his desire
to help Kerouac
scholarship, then he will immediately put EVERYTHING HE HAS
LEFT, EVERYTHING
HE HAS NOT YET SOLD OFF, ON DEPOSIT IN ONE PLACE. For all
Mr. Chaput's
ballyhoo, I can point out more than a dozen important
manuscripts (both
first drafts and subsequent drafts) that ARE NOT ON
PERMANENT DEPOSIT
(AND NOT ACCESSIBLE) IN THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY (or
any other
library):
ON THE ROAD
THE DHARMA BUMS
DR. SAX
THE SUBTERRANEANS
VISIONS OF GERARD
VISIONS OF CODY
BIG SUR
LONESOME TRAVELLER
VANITY OF DULUOZ
most of DESOLATION ANGELS
THE SCRIPTURE OF THE GOLDEN ETERNITY
PIC
(not to mention half a dozen more
unpublished books, such as BOOK OF
SKETCHES and the
unfinished novel about Lowell that Kerouac called MEMORY BABE*)
Can you imagine trying to doing
meaningful textual analysis of
Kerouac--or a
study of the development of his composition process--without
access to ANY of
those books in their original form(s)? IMPOSSIBLE!!! Yet
that is the
situation Kerouac scholars find themselves in today.
That is the situation I would like to
see rectified.
More later -- Gerry Nicosia
(*By the way, Mr. Sampas claims as one
of his gripes that I "stole"
this title. I actually got "Memory Babe" from a
clammer in Northport, Long
Island, Adolph
Rothman, who told me at the beginning of my journey: "You've
got to call your
book 'Memory Babe' because that's what Jack always called
himself around
here--he was really proud of that nickname.")
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:17:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Ginsberg Question: AH
When Ginsberg
autographed books after readings, he usually wrote AH! What
does this
sigature expression mean, refer to, express--just another form of
OM! or something
else? //John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:49:59 +0100
Reply-To: or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863453001@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
On Mon, 12 May
1997, Wes Lundburg wrote:
> I just
picked this CD up the other day ("Kicks, Joy, Darkness", released by
> Ryko), have
mixed responses to it, and am wondering how others feel. It's a
After listening
to it a lot recently, I'm starting to get a little more of
a grip... the HST
is endearing but lightweight... Johnny Depp acquits
himself pretty
well, & the Anna Domino (? I think...) is really good
reading ; lots of
the tracks are actually enlivened by the accompaniment
rather than, as I
was afraid, trivialised or otherwise defocussed. The WSB
track is perfectly
filmmusic complemented... & my current favourite is the
Ferlinghetti one,
not because the reading is outstanding, but that when
combined with
that unsettling line of chimes it becomes downright
insidious,
friends. Ginsberg rules. As does Ranaldo & whoever did "have
you ever seen a
face like Cody Pomeray...?"
> work), but
Michael Stipe (REM lead singer) does a really poor job . . . should
> stick to the
music he writes/sings. His reading
seemed so lifeless.
Now this is
weird, because that one I love... to me another case of voice
& backing in
synch. It didn't strike me as lifeless, more *toneless*... &
by about halfway
thru when the random keyboard prods pick up speed it
seemed that the
whole thing had become a rhythmic exercise... more than
anyone I thought
his approach turned the work into something else... it
picks up momentum
as it goes and sometimes, in a contradictory kind of
way, the emotion
comes through all the more powerful for being understated
; meaning that if
it's implicit in the words and then absent from the
voice... the
overall effect is disorienting & nice. I suppose it's a
matter of taste.
Olly R.
p.s> a
(shamefully offtopic) line from the new Mark Eitzel lp :
"...the rain has passed over &
the sky is clear with wind, & I'm a
pearl diver... so
you can tell the cops I was looking for pearls in the
frozen water,
saying goodbye with nothing left to discover..."
I just felt I had
to share that with everyone.
____________________________________________________________________
"If I had a gun... I would give
you your freedom."
____________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
____________________________________________________________________
>
> What do
others think?
>
> Regards,
> ---Wes
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:07:08 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: rbt hunter & cody pomeray...
Comments: To:
Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.95q.970512171104.16944A-100000@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk>
olly and co.
whoever did
"did you ever see aface like cody pomeray's?" alas olly - that
would be the
illustrious Mr.Rbt Hunter - known in certain circles as the
genius (along
with john perry barlow who has gone on to great fame &
little fortune as
net guru & visionary...) behind the lyrics of the
grateful dead(as
well as dylan in a few
cases). and
currently touring on his own thru-out usa all alone with his
guitar &
pedals. if you get a chance go and recapture the slightest of
glimpses of what
the dead were and could have been, alas poor yorick i
knew him well, he
was a man of infinite jest...
ah
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:32:16 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
a long-overdue
return from the depths of lurkdom...
I think Kicks Joy
Darkness is a wonderful tribute to Jack...even though
some readings are
better than others it's obvious every artist on the
disc has a deep
love for Kerouac's poetry.
Thoughts on the
standout tracks (in my opinion at least):
Hunter S
Thompson's ode to Jack: at first I thought 'what the hell was
that?' but it gets
funnier every time I hear it!
Richard Lewis'
American Trinity of Love: This was the biggest
surprise...Lewis
abandons his neurotic Jewish comedian shtick and shows
actual talent
impersonating Kerouac.
Ferlinghetti,
Ginsberg, Burroughs: Kerouac heard through three of his
peers, three
different voices, and they all work (especially
Ginsberg's...I
think he's one of the best at reading Jack's material, no
one was closer to
Jack and his writing).
Juliana
Hatfield's Silly Goofball Pomes: I can't believe some people are
down on this
one...she gives a fresh, whimsical reading, which is what
Jack probably
intended. It's a refreshing departure from the usual
morose feel of
some of Jack's other pomes.
John Cale's The
Moon: One of the very best, perfectly interpreted.
Prose readings by
Johnny Depp, Robert Hunter, and Lee Ranaldo: all three
have a good feel
for how Jack's prose should be read...they all reflect
the energy that's
in Jack's work.
Waren Zevon's
'Wiiiinnnne' pome: Hilarious, slightly cynical little
tribute to one of
Jack's favorite pastimes. Zevon really has a great
voice, he should
read Kerouac on record more often.
Among the
less-than-great tracks...Maggie Estep (more shtick, this time
the angry loud
New Yawk bitchy poet hipster lady...can she actually read
something without
coming off as totally obnoxious? Quiet down for a
change!), Eddie
Vedder (genx's emerging version of Wacko Jacko, the guy
seems to have
lost touch with humanity), Rob Buck and Danny Chauvin (the
only true screwup
on the cd, flubbed lines and no feeling whatsoever),
Patti Smith (a
little goes a long way, enough already).
Even though there
are some below-average readings, they are still honest
tributes...it's
nice to hear 25 different interpretations of Kerouac,
the variety keeps
it fresh. I heartily recommend this cd to any Kerouac
fan, it should be
essential listening.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:33:29 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
Is there anyone
else on Beat-l who thinks the whole Merry Prankster
reuinion tour
thing is a totally pathetic attempt to revisit a time that
has entirely
vanished and an even lamer attempt at bleeding the wallets
of suit&tie
ex-hippies and younger hippie wannabes?
Sure, the pranksters
seemed to have a rather novel idea at the time, but
for me the whole
hippie thing of the sixties today seems shallow. Why do
these people keep
clinging to the past? Ginsberg kept moving forward
after being an
iconic figure in the flower power movement. The Grateful
Dead continued to
do new things for years. Ken Kesey seems to be a
talented guy
(Cuckoo's nest was brilliant) but with all his dwelling on
a time which has
long since passed he comes off as nothing more than a
burnout
desperately in need of a career boost. How long will Country Joe
keep singing his
fixin-to-die rag and his eff-you-see-kay cheer?
I saw an
interview with Kesey and the pranksters a couple days ago, and
despite their
earnestness they looked nothing more than a pathetic
retread.
I really have no
intention of offending anybody (just spoutin off)...I'd
like to hear what
you all think about this to perhaps make me a little
less biased.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:33:13 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg Question: AH
John Mitchell
wrote:
>
> When
Ginsberg autographed books after readings, he usually wrote AH! What
> does this
sigature expression mean, refer to, express--just another form of
> OM! or
something else? //John M.
>From
Collected Poems (p.791):
"...one
syllable summary of Prajnaparamita sutra; mantra for
purification of
speech, and appreciation of space; related to Samatha
meditation
practice, mindfulness of outbreath; a vocalization of the
outbreath."
>From Holy
Soul Jelly Roll liner notes (p.21):
"During the
1968 Democratic Convention I did a lot of chanting "Om" to
calm myself,
police, and crowds, and sometimes it worked. But in 1972
during a
near-riot...in Boulder I asked Chogyam Trungpa [Allen's
Buddhist
teacher], "Is there any mantra that can calm people down?" And
he said,
"Why don't you try 'Ah'?"...[I] got in the middle of the group
who were going
off to blockade a highway and started chanting "Ah" after
asking them to
chant with me. Everybody sat down, then we discussed
strategy calmly
rather than as a hysterical mob. "Om" closes out at the
end but
"Ah" leaves the mouth open, breath goes out [see Ginsberg's Mind
Breaths poem for
more]. On the 4th of July you see the fireworks and say
"Ah",
or you recognize something and say "Ah!" When Trungpa said "Why
don't you try
'Ah'?" he joined an American sound with Himalayan wisdom,
and I've used it
ever since. "Ah" for recognition, appreciation, the
intelligence of
speech joining body and mind and for a measure of the
breath."
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:32:52 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
linux@cruzio.com
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
> J--
>
> > Just
curious. How many Linux users are there on Beat-L?
>
> I doubt very
many (yet), but it's cool to see that at least someone else on
> the list is.
>
> When I went
to Naropa a few summers ago I checked out the Beat Book Store in
> Boulder.
Pretty cool place -- I got lost browsing through lots and lots of
> Beat and
otherwise countercultural books, but some of the top books on my
> wantlist
that summer weren't Beat at all -- namely, Terence McKenna's 2013
> mushroom
treatise and Ted Nelson's _Literary Machines_ and _Computer Lib_.
> The latter
is the first countercultural computer book (ca. '74) and the
> former is a
good outline of the hypertext systems of the future. Since the
> one book was
at least in the Whole Earth Review sphere of things and the
> other was
about future electronic writing systems I figured there was at
> least a
chance they'd have them at the BBS (couldn't find them in any
> mainstream
outlets, that's for sure). But when I asked the proprietor
> (sitting on
a chair wearing a Kerouac shirt) he looked at me like I was
> rambling
incoherently during the final stages of a shroom comedown, barely
> letting out a
"No, we ain't got no _computer_ books here," before
> quietly
laughing to himself.
> .-
I love the way
you end the story.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:55:11 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re:
Please Ken, go no Furthur!
Comments: To:
Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
In-Reply-To: <33777E99.38BB@sk.sympatico.ca>
adrien
egads! i couldnt
disagree more.
i think that the
sensory assualt that the pranksters put forth is as valid
now as it was
then. who else would have the gall & guts to drive a 1949
international
harvester acid trip from one side of the country to the
other, both
reminding poeple of what DID happen and jarring people into
thinnking what
CAN happen? and as for his lit, kesey has done a lot more
than simple _one
flew over the cuckoo's nest_ what about _sometimes a
great notion_,
_sailor's song_ , _caverns_, _demon box_, "spit in the
ocean", _the
further inquiry_, _trickster the
squirrel meets big double
the bear_, _the
last go round_ and the upcoming _twister_?
sure some pople
could just see kesey as a thro-back to the 60's, but i
think that his
lit & actions can be as inspiring now as then, and in my
opinion the dead
would not have been the same w/o kesey (and even in
"modern"
time they've worked together - try the beautiful and inspiring
and yet
frightening and surging concert they did together in oakland
haloween 1990 as
a tribute to bill graham (another throwback??) with kesey
rapping &
reading over the dead's jamming?)
egad! dont lock
him away yet!
yrs in wordrush
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:31:18 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Clay Vaughan
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
It's a very
tenuous situation, that of the commemoration of an
revolution of
consciousness (and have people see it as precisely
that, and no
more) with a bus full of the countercultural aged. It's
almost too easy
to see the guts hanging out of shrunken t-shirts and
bits (or more) of
scalp emerging out from under an ever smaller nest
of remaining
hair.
But if you look
beyond all of those trappings (and it can be a TRIAL,
doing that), you
might actually see something else, something with
purpose,
something worth remembering, and something (dare I say it)
spiritual in
their intent, and get the message.
Clay
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:43:49 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
Comments: To:
"Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
> sure some
pople could just see kesey as a thro-back to the 60's, but i
> think that
his lit & actions can be as inspiring now as then, and in my
> opinion the
dead would not have been the same w/o kesey (and even in
>
"modern" time they've worked together - try the beautiful and
inspiring
> and yet
frightening and surging concert they did together in oakland
> haloween
1990 as a tribute to bill graham (another throwback??) with kesey
> rapping
& reading over the dead's jamming?)
> egad! dont
lock him away yet!
> yrs in
wordrush
> derek
Thanks Derek, for
yr swift n speedy response...was waiting for that! Not
that I was
Derek-baiting or anything...
I'm aware that
Kesey's still productive, but the impression I get from
his constant
revisiting and banking on the sixties is that it's focusing
the attention
away from what he's doing today to his goofy escapades of
the past. Seems
to me the hippies rode the Beats' coattails and ended up
parodying
themselves in the end...
As a (scuse the
term) genx-er I'm more aware than others of the cultural
implications of
the hippie movement and the pranksters than the average
person my age,
but when I see Kesey and his old buddies don't have
anything better
to do than try to recreate the sixties, the cynic in me
is immediately
turned off (despite their admirable spirit). The purpose
of reading the
Beats and latter-Beats today I think is to take their
energy and ideas
and spirit and go forward, incorporate them with living
in the 90's, not
pretending time stopped when Hendrix closed Woodstock.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:12:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeanne Vaccaro
<SlugBug747@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pranksters hit Cleveland
In a message
dated 97-05-11 20:28:20 EDT, you write:
<<
Big Brother and the Holding Company finished
up with a Janis clone who was
actually pretty good. I thought it was a bit
depressing though, to go and
make
a living this way with the Janis clone but
hopefully, they do it only on
special occaisions. >>
My father used to
share a bunch of apartments on Bush St. in San Fransico
with Big Brother
while they were getting started and playing at the Fillmore
and Avalon
Ballroom. I just can't get over how
amazing those early days must
have been before
people started writing songs about California and all these
losers came by to
check out the scene. He <dad> also
went to all those Kesey
acid parties and
such... i just think it's so amazing that... well since i am
young i just
can't imagine how wonderful things were, and how things have
changed so....
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:16:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: No Jumping
A few weeks ago I
was down in Big Sur and as a result I read Kerouac's BIG
SUR. Besides
wondering about going crazy out there, since I know it can
happen to anyone
who is surrounded by the sounds of quiet solitude, I noticed
that on the Bixby
Bridge (which is the bridge under which Kerouac stayed), it
says -- NO
JUMPING. It is the only bridge there on Route 1 to say that.
What's up with
that?
By the way, it is
a very high bridge.
I'm now reading
Brautigan's CONFEDERATE GENERAL FROM BIG SUR. Is it
coincidence?
Kerouac also says
that he walked 14 miles from the canyon (which he calls
Raton Canyon) to
Monterey, while it really is like 30 miles or so. Did he say
that just so
people wouldn't know where he had stayed (Ferlinghetti's cabin)
or was he just
mistaken on the distances.
lost in solitude
in California, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:32:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg reads but I don't listen
In a message
dated 97-05-12 14:46:23 EDT, you write:
<< I
basically LIKE hearing Ginsberg and
Burroughs read, whatever it is, though lately,
hearing Ginsberg read
Mexico City Blues, I found myself tiring of
him probably for the
first time.
>>
I have to admit
that Ginsberg reading of DHARMA BUMS was terrible. I had to
laugh at most of
it because Ginsberg's voice came off as so whiney and hokey.
I also never
liked his recording of HOWL on Fantasy records. I've seen him
read in the last
5 years and he never sounded like that to me. Did they pick
the worst
possible recording on purpose?
signing off in a
not whiney voice, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:25:30 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
Comments: To:
Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
In-Reply-To: <33778F15.36F9@sk.sympatico.ca>
> I'm aware
that Kesey's still productive, but the impression I get from
> his constant
revisiting and banking on the sixties is that it's focusing
> the
attention away from what he's doing today to his goofy escapades of
> the past.
sorry i didnt
realize that his goofy escapades had stopped. i thought that
was just ken
kesey being ken kesey & having a real good time.
> Seems to me
the hippies rode the Beats' coattails and ended up
> parodying
themselves in the end...
e gad! are you
sure yr not baiting me? dont you think that maybe the media
was the one that
did the parodying (like displying yr "genx" as slacker
toque &
flannel wearing idiots, with nothing better to do than mosh?)
"hippie"
is simply a label (& once you label you limit). i didnt know that
kesey & leary
& diprima (to bring in a beat) & hoffman & etc were
parodying
themselves i thot (for at least some) they were living the way
THAY wanted and
were sometimes parodying the "system" (like the chicago 7
trial, for
instance)
> As a (scuse
the term) genx-er I'm more aware than others of the cultural
> implications
of the hippie movement
EXACTLY! gen-x
(or a,b,c,d, or whatever) is a term, like "hippie" is a
term, these are
just PEOPLE living the way they wanted to. and some have
continued to live
in a similar style, and some have not & some like to get
together &
party & have some fun (and if that means getting together in an
old bus and
travelling & inviting everyone else in the country ala ken &
the pranksters,
why not?)
> and the
pranksters than the average
> person my
age, but when I see Kesey and his old buddies don't have
> anything
better to do than try to recreate the sixties, the cynic in me
> is
immediately turned off (despite their admirable spirit). The purpose
they arent
recreating ion my opinion. they're celebrating! and enjoying!
and remembering!
and thanking! this is a special occasion, why not
celebrate &
have fun with it? (and as for not brnging it into the 90's
well kesey &
co have been online at all their stops & leary was a great
proponent of the
net & if nothing else wavy's still around ("vote for
nobody! nobody
for president!") no?
> of reading
the Beats and latter-Beats today I think is to take their
> energy and
ideas and spirit and go forward, incorporate them with living
> in the 90's,
not pretending time stopped when Hendrix closed Woodstock.
bushwah! the same
can be said about "hippies"
& "yippies" and etc or
whatever you
wanna call 'em. there was just a discussion last week about
where the
"hippie" lit was and what was and what wasnt "hippie lit"
(brautigan, etc).
can nothing be learned from the people of the 60's same
as the 50's? and
isnt yr argument the same thats frequently used against
the beats by
conservative critics (change with the times, etc)?
are you sure yr
not baiting me?
peace. (wink
wink)
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:32:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
At 07:56 PM
5/10/97 +0200, Rinaldo wrote:
>i am dumb!
>i am dumb!
dumb am i?
dumb am i?
ekiM
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:26:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: No Jumping
At 05:16 PM
5/12/97 -0400, Atilla wrote:
>A few weeks
ago I was down in Big Sur and as a result
>I read
Kerouac's BIG SUR.
<sniperooni>
>I'm now
reading Brautigan's CONFEDERATE GENERAL
>FROM BIG SUR.
Hey Atilla,
Since there seems
to be a Big Sur theme, try Henry Miller's
_Big Sur and the
Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_ (Kerouac's
missed meeting w/
Mr. Miller was chronicalled in K's
_Big Sur_ I
believe? Someone remember this?).
Mike (was Kesey
present at the "Celebration at Big Sur?" {;^>)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:22:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
and?
----------
: From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject:
: Date: Saturday,
May 10, 1997 12:56 PM
:
: i am dumb!
: i am dumb!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:38:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
Comments: To:
"Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970512134717.18000A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
I have to concur
with Derek on this.
Although i have
not seen the pranksters, i think its great that theyre out
there still
kickin up a storm.
Adrien, to say
that theyre just living off past glories suggests that the
"hippie"
lifestyle is merely a weird aberration from accepted "normal"
living, which may
be true for some, but for many being a hippie in the
real sense IS
what livings all about. One doesnt HAVE TO go by the way
others feel the
90's should be.
sincerely,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
P.S. Of course
time did not stop when Jimi's Woodstock set concluded. He
still had about a
year's worth of music to go!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:53:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
<Sure, the
pranksters seemed to have a rather novel idea at the time, but
<for me the
whole hippie thing of the sixties today seems shallow. Why do
<these people
keep clinging to the past?.... The Grateful
<Dead
continued to do new things for years.
What? How can you claim that Kessey is stuck
in the past, but the Dead
were somehow
trail blazers? If you think Kessey is stuck in the past then
the Dead
definitely were. Look at the average Dead-head's wardrobe...that
doesn't scream
60's? Maybe it is just me.....
Dean Palmer--
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:57:01 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> i am dumb!
> i am dumb!
> .-
don't you wish!
(sometimes....)
don't you wish!
(sometimes...)
Disclaimer: We
are just kidding, right?
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:06:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: kerouackicksjoydarkness
i seem to recall
someone expressing similar sentiments here on this list a
few weeks ago,
but just to re-manifest the subject, i am a bit at odds with
the background
""""""music""""" to
MacDougal Street Blues. When i first read
this pome a while
back, i thought of blue sky and the true true OM of
citylife and the
zen-vastness of the pavement in washington square park
(purely of my own
odd thought relations).
anyhow, point
being that this beat (ohoh, NOOO pun intended!! quite the
opposite in
fact!!!) in the background seemed to close all the doors on the
pome and put it
against a dark background in stead of an orange and blue
sun/sky. took
away all openness that i loved bout the pome. (dontmean to be
too wordy here,
but word are in life to use. im young! im not maturely
articulate!)
how do you all
feel about this?
-buona serata,
ginny
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:04:40 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
Comments: cc:
dabeauli@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> e gad! are
you sure yr not baiting me? dont you think that maybe the media
> was the one
that did the parodying (like displying yr "genx" as slacker
> toque &
flannel wearing idiots, with nothing better to do than mosh?)
>
"hippie" is simply a label (& once you label you limit). i didnt
know that
> kesey &
leary & diprima (to bring in a beat) & hoffman & etc were
> parodying
themselves i thot (for at least some) they were living the way
> THAY wanted
and were sometimes parodying the "system" (like the chicago 7
> trial, for
instance)
Gah, what have I
gotten myself into???
I realize, Derek,
there's no way I can continue this discussion without
backing myself
into a corner only to get Beaten to a bloody pulp by yr
retorts.
I have nothing
against Kesey, Leary, & diPrima...
> isnt yr
argument the same thats frequently used against
> the beats by
conservative critics (change with the times, etc)?
Must be the
conservative closeminded smalltown hick in me that took
over...
All yr points are
valid, Derek, and I agree with much of what you have
to say, but I'm
sorry, the Pranksters' reunion thing seems less as a fun
artistic
endeavour and more of a moneymaking venture, which, to a
sometimes
closeminded cynical fencesitter like myself, well...reeks.
Bruised,
battered, bleeding, but still steadfast in my belief that the
Prankster reunion
is a joke,
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:12:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cast of Characters
At 06:47 PM
5/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-10 18:24:42 EDT, you write:
>
><< Jim
Sampas (a guy in his 30s or so) is a
> nephew, I'm
not sure what brother's son. >>
>
>The dead
one....
>
>
This was my
fault. I thought John Sampas was Stella
Kerouac's nephew. I
did not know he
was so old.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:10:31 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
derek wrote:
>
>as for hst -
how could you be familiar with him but not his work? and well
>his voice ive
never heard his voice before this cd, and its exactly what i
>thot it would
sound like. the 5:00am rush somehow fits with his books, etc
>and i think
that i would have been disappointed with something done sober
>in the
daylight, no?
>
Hi, derek! How could I be familiar with him but not his
work? Easy. I have
several friends who
are HST fans, so I know about him; also see things in
reviews (very
occasionally). Anyway, it all gives me
an impression of who he is
and what he does,
but I haven't read more than 500 words of his and have never
heard his
voice. I also know who 2 Pac is, but
have never listened to his
music. I know who Jessie Helms is and what he says,
but have never read
anything he's
written nor have heard his voice. Same
with HST.
So, perhaps it's
a case like me with WSB back in December (remember? I was the
one posting stuff
like "how can we respect a man who shot his wife???").
Somehow, though,
the guy has grown on me. Now I've read
WSB (_Ghost_ and
_Junky_ and have
watched a bio/doc on video, as well as video of his cut-ups and
some other stuff.
I like him. I really love to listen to him read. Maybe the
same will happen
with HST. But having never heard his
voice, HST's reading on
this CD was a
major disappointment to me: I'd heard so much about him, and this
was less than a
drunken 16-year-old (nothing against them, mind you!) could have
done.
Just confessing
my ignorance... but at this point, I still think his reading
stunk. Probaby a matter of taste. I used to hate lima beans, too, and now like
them quite well!
Regards! ---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:15:31 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joys, Darkness
Somebody wrote:
>
>I thought it
pretty typical HST. In readings etc. he comes off as a drunken,
>doped-up slob
(which he probably is), but his writing is very fine. Even
>through all
his shenanigans there's a certain precision which comes through
>in all his
writings, and I'm not sure you get it during his spoken word,
>where the
drunken craziness is more in the forefront.
>
Hey, maybe you and
derek can recommend a book of HST's. You
say his writing is
very fine . . .
what would you (and other HST fans) recommend?
My HST fan
friends say _Fear
and Loathing in Las Vegas_ . . . would you recommend that one
for an HST
beginner? Or is another book
better? Please keep in mind my disdain
for his recording
on "Kicks..."!!!
Thanks! ---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:32:52 +0100
Reply-To: or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: yet more, yet more about the cd.
well, I've
finally found a subject I'm more or less qualified to talk
about, so I'm
milking it for all it's worth... (I originally mistyped
"milking"
as "miling" which come to think could be a better word.) Anyway.
To business :
Macdougal Street
Blues is one of those pieces that gets a kind of
idiosyncratic
treatment... perhaps on purpose since it's actually JK
reading th'damn
thing. After listening lots I decided I like it... I mean
to me the true Om
of city is as much often as otherwise the feeling of
being enclosed by
the whole thing ; you understand shut in but still, as
it were, moving
along briskly, which to me is what this treatment does.
Nowadays I
actually listen to it on purpose quite frequently. It probably
depends a deal on
what city you're listening to it in...
Incidentally,
thanks Derek for the info on R.Hunter.
Everyone take
care,
Olly R.
____________________________________________________________________
"If I had a gun... I would give
you your freedom."
____________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:40:48 +0100
Reply-To: or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: death to the weird.
Hunter S.T. being
something of a hero to me, I'm going to chip in on this
one also. Las
Vegas is undeniably a good piece of work, but my personal
call would be the
Great Shark Hunt (esp. pieces like Strange Rumblings in
Aztlan & The
Banshee Screams for Buffalo Meat which are two of the finest
slabs of
journalism I have ever encountered.) or Fear and Loathing : On
the Campaign
Trail 72 which you can tell is a great book purely from
reading the
slightly rococo chapter summaries in the contents... the man
is/was (factoring
in nonexistent recent output) a genius. My theory is
this : it's
relatively easy for music or writing to bring you down, but
the real trick
lies in an artist who can revitalise you and haul you back
up regardless of
your circumstance... on the whole, the Beats could do
this, and so
could Hunter, & that's the reason I love them. I'd implore
you not to write
the guy off... since in his own way he's up against the
edge as close as
anybody ever was, self-mythology notwithstanding.
Olly.
____________________________________________________________________
"If I had a gun... I would give
you your freedom."
____________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:45:38 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> Incorrect or
incomplete address field found and
ignored.
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
Comments: To:
Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca>
In-Reply-To: <3377A208.13F0@sk.sympatico.ca>
adrien
please dont
misunderstand i am NOT beating you up (no pun intended). ok
then?
and if nothing
else - who better to make a money making JOKE than the
merry pranksters?
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:12:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joys, Darkness
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863481476@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
On Mon, 12 May
1997, Wes Lundburg wrote:
> Somebody
wrote:
> >
> >I
thought it pretty typical HST. In readings etc. he comes off as a drunken,
> >doped-up
slob (which he probably is), but his writing is very fine.
>
> Hey, maybe
you and derek can recommend a book of HST's.
You say his writing
is
> very fine .
. . what would you (and other HST fans) recommend?
Well, _...Las
Vegas_ is the standard HST intro, and I think it's a good
one -- pretty
much sums up where he's at, both in writing ability and
philosophies. If
you want a shorter intro then check out "The Kentucky Derby
is Decadent and
Depraved," which is in Tom Wolfe's essential _New
Journalism_ as
well as HST's _Great Shark Hunt_. I think _The Great Shark
Hunt_ is another
good place to start -- its a collection of early HST
magazine/news
pieces, and it's one of my favorites. Also for some good early
stuff check out
his first novel, _Hell's Angels_. By this time you should
completely turned
off to his brand of backwoods hillbilly dope fiend
intellectualism,
but if not -- if you find yourself hooked to the 5am
ravings of a mad
lunatic -- then maybe the series of books called the Gonzo
Papers are a good
place to go next.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:27:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: British Beats
Check out
Alexander Trocchi as a Brit Beat. Jeff should have some of his
books.
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:36:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: kicks/joy/darkness: macdougal street
blues
(my honest
apologies if this a repeat, sent already, tho i dont think so...)
i seem to recall
someone expressing similar sentiments here on this list a
few weeks ago,
but just to re-manifest the subject, i am a bit at odds with
the background
""""""music""""" to
MacDougal Street Blues. When i first read
this pome a while
back, i thought of blue sky and the true true OM of
citylife and the
zen-vastness of the pavement in washington square park
(purely of my own
odd thought relations).
anyhow, point
being that this beat (ohoh, NOOO pun intended!! quite the
opposite in
fact!!!) in the background seemed to close all the doors on the
pome and put it
against a dark background in stead of an orange and blue
sun/sky. took
away all openness that i loved bout the pome. (dontmean to be
too wordy here,
but word are in life to use. im young! im not maturely
articulate!)
how do you all
feel about this?
-buona serata,
ginny
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:37:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: No Jumping
In a message
dated 97-05-12 19:31:56 EDT, you write:
> (Kerouac's
> missed meeting w/ Mr. Miller was chronicalled
in K's
> _Big Sur_ I believe? Someone remember this?).
yes. it was.
jack was such a
responsible and respectable young man, now wasnt he.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:43:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS
>........
>NOW PHILLIPS
IS IN A CONSPIRACY TOO GERRY I SEE WHAT ROD MEANT ABOUT YOU
>BEING PARANOID.....
>
>GERRY YOUR
ARGUMENT ABOUT THE XEROX COPIES IS PRETTY PATHETIC. I THINK IF A
>UNIVERSITY
WERE TO COPY A MANUSCRIPT OR LETTER IT WOULDN'T MISS PAGES OR
>WORDS COME ON
GERRY ARE YOU FOR REAL?...
>I DON'T KNOW
BRAD AND I HAVE NEVER MET HIM. HE HAS WRITTEN SOME GOOD KEROUAC
>STUFF THOUGH.
I HAVE HEARD THAT HE IS YOUR MOUTHPIECE IN LOWELL SO IT
>DOESN'T
SURPRISE ME ABOUT THIS LETTER....
Dear Phil, May 12, 1997
When you find you can't answer my
questions, shouting won't help.
You never
answered about why Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! didn't invite me or
Jan from 1988
through 1994, before there was any lawsuit. You also ignore
the fact that
when Brad Parker invited me to Lowell to speak in 1993 and
1994, I spoke,
respectively, about Kerouac's self-destructiveness and about
his
spirituality--not about lawsuits. Jan
was invited by Brad to speak in
1994, and she
didn't speak about lawsuits either.
You're back to lying again. I didn't sell my archive "to the
highest
bidder." It was appraised at
$15,000 and I sold it at $7,500 so
that the
University of Lowell could afford it, and I even allowed the
university to pay
me over a three-year period, to make it more affordable
for them. I could have made far more money breaking the
archive up, as Mr.
Sampas has begun
to do with the Kerouac Archive. Just the
60 stolen letters
(written to me
from Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Burroughs, et al.) could bring
$20,000 at
today's prices. And there are 25,000
other documents, not to
mention 300
tapes, in the collection.
If anyone is paranoid, I'd say it's
you. Now I have Brad Parker,
Joe Grant, and
half the university archivists in America as my "mouthpiece"!
This whole thing has become a bad joke,
Phil. Know your place. THE
WORLD OF
SCHOLARLY RESEARCH DOES NOT HANG ON THE WORDS OF PHIL CHAPUT. Do
you expect the
thousands of Kerouac and Beat scholars around the world to
say, "OK, we
don't need the Jack Kerouac archive, since we have the word of
Phil Chaput that
a few dozen xeroxes are just as good."
Here's the sworn statement of Matthew
J. Bruccoli, one of the
preeminent living
scholars today, the man who put F. Scott Fitzgerald
scholarship on
the map, and currently Jeffries Professor of American
Literature at the
University of South Carolina and Honorary Curator of the
F. Scott
Fitzgerald Collection at the Thomas Cooper Library:
"I am certain that the Jack
Kerouac papers would be of greater use
to researchers if
kept together than if scattered. I am
also certain that
major libraries
will be prepared to acquire the Kerouac Papers en bloc for
the use of
scholars."
Go talk to Dr. Bruccoli about
xeroxes--if you can get an appointment
with him.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:40:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS/direct flame sick of
phil
philly the dilly
wrote
> I WILL PUT
MY RESPONSE IN CAPS JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ.
>
> NO I CAN'T
TAKE ANY MORE I'M GOING TO PUKE....
>
phil, why would i
doubt your other arguments after you explain your use
of caps, not as
shouting but so we can read you better, yeh I GET IT!
wheres the meat
i puts you right
up there with the katsinjammers.
i think that you
are impotent in the pissing contest.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:54:30 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joys, Darkness
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863481476@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
wes
absolutely
start with _fear
& loathing las vegas_ and then go from there. it all
starts in vegas
& a truck full of drugs, 2 crazed loonies & the good ol'
USA.
good luck
let me/us know
know how it goes
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:04:13 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joys, Darkness
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> wes
> absolutely
> start with
_fear & loathing las vegas_ and then go from there. it all
> starts in
vegas & a truck full of drugs, 2 crazed loonies & the good ol'
> USA.
> good luck
> let me/us
know know how it goes
> derek
i'm not in to HST
yet....i had heard rumours of a guy i knew from
Lexington having
partied with HST....i always figured they were just
typical
legendmaking....now that i heard this title about the Kentucky
Derby it makes me
wonder....is that one about partying in Lexington???
when did it
happen? is there anybody named J.W. in
it???
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:38:30 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Please Ken, go no Furthur!
I think looking
at the Prankster reunion as an attempt to cling to the 60s is a
shallow way to
look at it. Here is a group of people who have a great
philosophy of
life, to have fun, be creative (and never trust a prankster).
They have stuck
to and continued that creed since before the 60s. Sure, some
people slow down
with age but Kesey is still writing, still exploring, still
having fun, to
see him as being limited to a ten year period in the century is
to limit
yourself. Are people that listen to classical music stuck in the 18th
century? I don't
care when the Fish Cheer was written, I hope I'm still singing
it in the year
2020. I spoke with Ken and the Pranksters about many things,
hardly any of
which had much to do with the 60s.
If anything,
maybe big brother may be a bit stuck in the 60s with their Janis
clone but hey, it
was still a good show.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:38:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
At 09:18 PM
5/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-09 20:30:29 EDT, you write:
>
><< As
someone who's done a fair amount of Kerouac lit. criticism I'm
> astonished
by your grasp of DR SAX. What you say is
not only solid
> criticism
but it's also fun to read. >>
>
>Gerry:
>So Pam said
to me awhile ago when that Lost Generation thread came up -- that
>movement's
writers had similar styles. In the Beat writers there are similar
>"trace
elements" and varied styles, but my pleasure in reading Dr. Sax and
>casting the
whole critique in a poor metaphorically fight ring did produce
>another
insight: That is Kerouac was steeped in the university canons of the
>50s, many of
which were venturing into the expatriates, Joyce etal. It seems
>Kerouac was
swinging quite heavily, really fighting towards (for?) Epiphany,
>which was a
deeply engrained battle of the mind in the history of literature.
>Kerouac's
contemporaries may have dumped this so to speak, especially
>Burroughs
whose canvas was more like Pollocks until he went ballistics... as
>future
literacies seem look at the broad canvas conceptually or
>minimallisctically,
looping back upon the quantum, or whatever else has
>mainframed
Postmodernism to a mode of rhetoric
rather than a movement.
>I was also
reminded while reading the book of just how Allen mimicked
>Kerouac's
"voice". I assume it was that way rather than the other way around.
>Even in all
the little innuendos and inventions.
>Is it true
what was in the Kesey post about Allen's last words?
>
Charley, May 12, 1997
What fascinates me about your criticism
is that it's all in poetic
shorthand, which
allows you to say in one paragraph what would probably take
several pages for
the average academic (and probably for me too, though I've
fought against
the academic in my prose since I dumped my UCLA fellowship
back in 1975).
My only comments: Yes, I agree!
And yes, clearly it was Ginsberg
imitating Kerouac's voice, not the
other way around.
I didn't read the Kesey post about
Allen's last words? What were
they? I heard it was something about vomiting and
saying, "I've never done
that
before"?
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:53:15 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: To Olly, m, and derek (and others, too)
Olly, m, and
derek (and whoever else chipped in suggestions):
Thanks for the
HST suggestions. He's now officially on
my summer reading list.
The notes you
attached have especially intrigued me....
I'm not writing him off
until I read his
work!
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 22:00:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Cast of Characters
At 06:23 PM
5/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-08 04:49:29 EDT, you write:
>
><< In
my ignorance I guess I was under the mistaken impression that John
>Sampas
> was one of
Stella's brothers, a guy pehaps in his 60-70's.
>>
>
>John Sampas
is Stella's brother. Jim Sampas (a guy in his 30s or so) is a
>nephew, I'm
not sure what brother's son.
>George
Sampas...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:55:19 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Re: Pranksters hit Cleveland
At 05:12 PM
5/12/97 -0400, Jeanne Vaccaro wrote:
I just can't get
over how amazing those early days must
>have been
<snip>.
i just think it's so amazing that... well
since i am
>young i just
can't imagine how wonderful things were, and how things have
>changed
so....
I remember the
University District in Seattle
in the late
1960s, then mid 1970s, and early 1990s.
What was
"wonderful" was that people wandered around
with a sense of
Spirited Wonder...some chemically induced,
yet some was the
spirit of the time -- a conscious
ideology or
philosophy that people reinforced in one another
in a fairly
open-minded, laissez-faire way -- to appreciate Life!
It wasn't always
sustainable --these were a mix of realistic and
unrealistically
high ideals about what Life could be.
The Merry
Pranksters -- do they invoke, celebrate, commemorate,
the spirit of
wonder? We learned they don't have to
spike the
Kool-Aid. Do get up off our stretchers and live again,
with the
wisdom of age but
the enthusiasm of Eternal Youth?
I yield the
floor.... now I am levitating so to speak (if blather blather!!)
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:30:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re:
Cast of Characters
Bravely running
out into no man's land, dodging bullets and land mines to say...
Ahem! Hrumph!
It would be useful to actually put
together the cast of characters.
I was at the Lord
Buckley Bash a little more than a year ago and one of the
Sampas's was
there doing a great job on Buckley's Train piece, although the
ending defeated
him. I believe that was Jim Sampas and I see on my copy of
"kicks joy
darkness" that the producer is also Jim Sampas. So where do he
and the other
Sampas's fit in? I'll throw this out for those who know the
answers to
complete....Phil? Gerry? Jeffrey? The three of you probably have
it right at your
fingertips.
Charley older brother of Sammy;
newspaper columnist
Sebastian "Sammy", best
friend of Jack, died in 1944
...same as Alex /
"Sabby" in the Charters biography, I
assume, but which
name is right
Jim, member of the foreign service
Stella married Jack in 1966 after
having been asked 17 years
previously, but
declining
Nick, bartender / owner of Nicky's
Tony, younger brother of Sammy, former
OSS guerilla, night manager
at Nicky's
John, brother of ?
-----------------------father of son Jim(?)
...and Paul Maher mentions George as
brother of Sammy/Stella and
father of Jim...
So, who else to fill in all the
blanks.......
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to
do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 22:34:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: SoRRY
(Bill Gargan)
Sorry guys for
posting this on the list, but im going home tomorrow and i
dont think ill be
able to check this address's mail anymore and i need to
unsubscribe for
this address, and i have all the directions on how to do
that, but there
in a book that i dont have with me right now, so Bill,
could you please
unsubscribe me and then i will be able to resubscribe
when im home
under my mom's address. Thanks A lot!
I will see you
all soon. well, not really see you, but,
well, ...yeah.
-matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:36:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Hunter S.Thompson ouevre
Wes,
Also worth trying are "Curse of
Lono" with one of the funniest
openers
ever....that blue dye in those airline toilets really stains your
skin!?! ...and "Fear and Loathing on the
Campaign Trail." this last is
going to be a
little bit dated, but I'm sure it still has a bite.
Antoine
....whose "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" is out on loan
to his son who
calls each night to reassure me about its condition and
whereabouts!
************************
>Somebody
wrote:
>
>>
>>I thought
it pretty typical HST. In readings etc. he comes off as a drunken,
>>doped-up
slob (which he probably is), but his writing is very fine. Even
>>through
all his shenanigans there's a certain precision which comes through
>>in all
his writings, and I'm not sure you get it during his spoken word,
>>where the
drunken craziness is more in the forefront.
>>
>
>Hey, maybe
you and derek can recommend a book of HST's.
You say his writing is
>very fine . .
. what would you (and other HST fans) recommend? My HST fan
>friends say
_Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ . . . would you recommend that one
>for an HST
beginner? Or is another book
better? Please keep in mind my
disdain
>for his
recording on "Kicks..."!!!
>
>Thanks! ---Wes
>
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:37:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS/direct flame sick of
phil
At 06:40 PM
5/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>philly the
dilly wrote
Oh if your gonna
call me philly the dilly I'm gonna call you fatty Patty.
na na na na naa
>> I WILL
PUT MY RESPONSE IN CAPS JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ.
>>
>> NO I
CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE I'M GOING TO PUKE....
>>
>phil, why
would i doubt your other arguments after you explain your use
>of caps, not
as shouting but so we can read you better, yeh I GET IT!
>wheres the
meat
I meant so you
could distiquish my response from Gerry's easier not so you
could literally
read the words easier. DUH!
But sorry if that
offended you fatty Patty.
>
>i puts you
right up there with the katsinjammers.
>i think that
you are impotent in the pissing contest.
>p
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:40:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kicks, Joys, Darkness
At 04:15 PM
5/12/97 CDT, you wrote:
>Somebody
wrote:
>
>>
>>I thought
it pretty typical HST. In readings etc. he comes off as a drunken,
>>doped-up
slob (which he probably is), but his writing is very fine. Even
>>through
all his shenanigans there's a certain precision which comes through
>>in all
his writings, and I'm not sure you get it during his spoken word,
>>where the
drunken craziness is more in the forefront.
>>
>
>Hey, maybe
you and derek can recommend a book of HST's.
You say his writing is
>very fine . .
. what would you (and other HST fans) recommend? My HST fan
>friends say
_Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ . . . would you recommend that one
>for an HST
beginner? Or is another book
better? Please keep in mind my
disdain
>for his
recording on "Kicks..."!!!
>
>Thanks! ---Wes
>
just jumping in
here I gotta say that Fear & Loathing is a masterpiece of
exactly what the
title implies which makes it sure fire regardless yet
however is
excellent for a first! it's a fast easy
and hillarious read. . .
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 22:39:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS/direct flame sick of
phil
Phil Chaput
wrote:
>
> At 06:40 PM
5/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >philly
the dilly wrote
>
> Oh if your gonna
call me philly the dilly I'm gonna call you fatty Patty.
> na na na na
naa
> >> I
WILL PUT MY RESPONSE IN CAPS JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ.
> >>
> >> NO
I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE I'M GOING TO PUKE....
> >>
> >phil,
why would i doubt your other arguments after you explain your use
> >of caps,
not as shouting but so we can read you better, yeh I GET IT!
> >wheres
the meat
>
> I meant so
you could distiquish my response from Gerry's easier not so you
> could
literally read the words easier. DUH!
> But sorry if
that offended you fatty Patty.
> >
> >i puts
you right up there with the katsinjammers.
> >i think
that you are impotent in the pissing contest.
> >p
> >
> >you
didn't offend me , you didn't understand my point, you bored me with the
name calling and lack of substance,, it was
like you thought we would reach a
conclusion on issues based on how nasty you
were. duh
i am huge, often
when someone gets on my nerves by being shrill, i
simply lean
forward and one of my giant boobs pop out and smothers the
poor guy,
hey get a sense
of humour,
p
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:58:33 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: No Jumping
Attila
I think the
"no jumping sign" is an attempt to deter bungee jumpers. It
is a great site
for that.
Without checking
my map, I don't think Kerouac is too far off.
The Big
Sur Marathon runs
it's 26.2 miles from considerably south of Bixby
Canyon north into Carmel, and Monterey is only a few miles
further.
Attila Gyenis
wrote:
>
> A few weeks
ago I was down in Big Sur and as a result I read Kerouac's BIG
> SUR. Besides
wondering about going crazy out there, since I know it can
> happen to
anyone who is surrounded by the sounds of quiet solitude, I noticed
> that on the
Bixby Bridge (which is the bridge under which Kerouac stayed), it
> says -- NO
JUMPING. It is the only bridge there on Route 1 to say that.
> What's up
with that?
>
> By the way,
it is a very high bridge.
>
> I'm now
reading Brautigan's CONFEDERATE GENERAL FROM BIG SUR. Is it
> coincidence?
>
> Kerouac also
says that he walked 14 miles from the canyon (which he calls
> Raton
Canyon) to Monterey, while it really is like 30 miles or so. Did he say
> that just so
people wouldn't know where he had stayed (Ferlinghetti's cabin)
> or was he
just mistaken on the distances.
>
> lost in
solitude in California, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 01:19:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS/direct flame sick of
phil
At 10:39 PM
5/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Phil Chaput
wrote:
>>
>> At 06:40
PM 5/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>philly the dilly wrote
>>
>> Oh if
your gonna call me philly the dilly I'm gonna call you fatty Patty.
>> na na na
na naa
>> >>
I WILL PUT MY RESPONSE IN CAPS JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ.
>> >>
>> >>
NO I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE I'M GOING TO PUKE....
>> >>
>>
>phil, why would i doubt your other arguments after you explain your use
>> >of
caps, not as shouting but so we can read you better, yeh I GET IT!
>>
>wheres the meat
>>
>> I meant
so you could distiquish my response from Gerry's easier not so you
>> could
literally read the words easier. DUH!
>> But
sorry if that offended you fatty Patty.
>> >
>> >i
puts you right up there with the katsinjammers.
>> >i
think that you are impotent in the pissing contest.
>> >p
>> >
>> >you
didn't offend me , you didn't understand my point, you bored me with the
> name calling
and lack of substance,, it was like you thought we would reach a
> conclusion
on issues based on how nasty you were. duh
>
>i am huge,
often when someone gets on my nerves by being shrill, i
>simply lean
forward and one of my giant boobs pop out and smothers the
>poor guy,
>hey get a
sense of humour,
>
>I do have a
sense of humor (I get the point ,about your boob that is) and
you seem to have
one too. My friends actually do call me philzi though.
Bravo you got me.
Philzi the dilzi
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 01:58:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Final estate details (for a while)
> When you find you can't answer my
questions, shouting won't help.
Gerry like I
explained I put my response in caps to make it easier to read.
It is a common
practice to make it easier to distinguish one person from
another in a long
e-mail message. I didn't mean so you could literally read
it easier. But I
will keep it lower case so you won't think I'm SHOUTING.
>You never
answered about why Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! didn't invite me or
>Jan from 1988
through 1994, before there was any lawsuit.
I don't know why
I wasn't on the committee then but there are lots of people
we haven't
invited yet don't feel left out. I know why we haven't invited
you. After
reading all your posts I figured it out. Your a nut case.
You also ignore
>the fact that
when Brad Parker invited me to Lowell to speak in 1993
Pretty bad when
the only one who will invite you is your friend Brad Parker.
Besides if he
wants you every year we wouldn't want to step on his toes.
and
>1994, I
spoke, respectively, about Kerouac's self-destructiveness and about
>his
spirituality--not about lawsuits. Jan
was invited by Brad to speak in
>1994, and she
didn't speak about lawsuits either.
> You're back to lying again. I didn't sell my archive "to the
>highest
bidder." It was appraised at
$15,000 and I sold it at $7,500 so
>that the
University of Lowell could afford it, and I even allowed the
>university to
pay me over a three-year period, to make it more affordable
>for them.
Are you trying to tell me you got offered
$15,000 for it? Gerry no one
wanted it and
when you couldn't get anyone to buy it you finally sold it to
U-Lowell for
whatever terms you could get. Don't come on like you had all
these big offers
and then you did U-Lowell a favor out of the kindness of
your heart.You
didn't even offer it to them until you tried everyone else
and they didn't
want it.Now I know why no one else wanted it cause you never
had permission
from the people you interviewed. Remember Gerry people in
Lowell know what
was going on then because we were here. You can't buffalo
us like you do
with the people on the beat-l.
You told the
beat-l people that John Sampas closed the archive. That's not
true and you know
Martha Mayo told you that's not true. Here is a line from
the June 10, 1996
article in the Lowell Sun that I know you read.
"But since a
Connecticut women called the Mogan center 18 months ago to
request that the
public not be allowed to hear her interview with Nicosia
the tapes have
sat in two steel file cabinet drawers....Sorry, but if you
want to listen to
the taped interviews, you must have written permission
from the
subjects. If they are dead, you must have permission from their
estates.
University officials say that because Nicosia never got written
permission from
his subjects to let the public review their interviews, it
now owns a
"crippled" collection of tapes....Martha Mayo says "It was my
understanding
that permission was given. It was implicit that had been done
between the
author and the people interviewed. But people didn't know it
would be placed
in a public institution....
Again Gerry
that's not me saying this it is Martha Mayo of U-Lowell and an
article in the
Lowell Sun.
cause it was I could have made far more money
breaking the archive up, as Mr.
>Sampas has begun
to do with the Kerouac Archive. Just the
60 stolen letters
>(written to
me from Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Burroughs, et al.) could bring
>$20,000 at
today's prices. And there are 25,000
other documents, not to
>mention 300
tapes, in the collection.
> If anyone is paranoid, I'd say it's
you. Now I have Brad Parker,
>Joe Grant,
and half the university archivists in America as my "mouthpiece"!
I only mentioned
that Brad was your mouthpiece in Lowell I never said
anything about Jo
Grant or university archivist being your mouthpiece at all.
> This whole thing has become a bad joke,
Phil. Know your place.
Know my place?
Does that mean your above me and my place is below you. Gerry
they use to tell
blacks in the south "know your place" That's not a very
nice thing to say
to someone.
THE
>WORLD OF
SCHOLARLY RESEARCH DOES NOT HANG ON THE WORDS OF PHIL CHAPUT.
Gerry are you
shouting like you told me not to? Read your first sentence
above.For shame.
For shame.
>you expect
the thousands of Kerouac and Beat scholars around the world to
>say,
"OK, we don't need the Jack Kerouac archive, since we have the word of
>Phil Chaput
that a few dozen xeroxes are just as good."
> Here's the sworn statement of Matthew
J. Bruccoli, one of the
>preeminent
living scholars today, the man who put F. Scott Fitzgerald
>scholarship
on the map, and currently Jeffries Professor of American
>Literature at
the University of South Carolina and Honorary Curator of the
>F. Scott
Fitzgerald Collection at the Thomas Cooper Library:
> "I am certain that the Jack
Kerouac papers would be of greater use
>to
researchers if kept together than if scattered.
I am also certain that
>major
libraries will be prepared to acquire the Kerouac Papers en bloc for
>the use of
scholars."
> Go talk to Dr. Bruccoli about
xeroxes--if you can get an appointment
>with him.
This last
argument above is really lame. You don't need a sworn statement (A
sworn statement
mind you ) to know an archive is better in one place than
scattered any
fool could tell you that. You really didn't need that sworn
statement from
(Dr. Carrot)the smartest man in the world for that Gerry.
Gerry why don't
we mutually end this I think the beat-l members are getting
sick of it and we
will meet in Lowell someday and have a "gentlemen's
argument"
about it all.I'll buy you another free meal. Bring a copy of your
book inscribed to
my father and I'll put it on his grave at least then you
will have
fulfilled one promise that you made to a dead person.
To be fair. Don't
write to me for a while I won't be able to answer you. I'm
going to Greece
for a few weeks with John Sampas to spend some of Stella's
hard earned
money. Philly the Dilly (ha ha)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:28:46 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Final
(?)estate details (for a while)
Guys, this is
really getting good. Love the smell of a
really intense
ad hominem war
any old time. And I declare Patricia
Elliott the
winner--at least
on the female side. Now if you gentleman
will step up
to the bar, we
can get out our rulers and see who has the biggest . . .
Rooting from the
sidelines
James Stauffer
Phil Chaput
wrote: . . .
>
> I don't know
why I wasn't on the committee then but there are lots of people
> we haven't
invited yet don't feel left out. I know why we haven't invited
> you. After
reading all your posts I figured it out. Your a nut case.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 04:03:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS/direct flame sick of
phil
>Oh if your
gonna call me philly the dilly I'm gonna call you fatty
>Patty.
You really are immature, aren't you?
>I meant so
you could distiquish my response from Gerry's easier not so
>you
>could
literally read the words easier. DUH!
>But sorry if
that offended you fatty Patty.
You can't spell
for shit either..."distiquish"?
I have watched
your volley with Mr. Nicosia and I believe..you have some
personal issues
you might want to seek professional help with. You attack
as if Mr. Nicosia
shot your dog or something. So he doesn't donate to
your little
club...so what? I don't...do you hate me too?
You say Mr. Nicosia just wants to be known as
"the man who saved
Kerouac's
stuff" or some such hooha. That is moronic. I am sure Mr.
Nicosia is wise
enough to realize people remember great things...and
rarely the men
who brought them about.
Toilets are great...we love 'em...Who made
'em? Who cares? We just know
we need 'em.
Computers are neat...we use 'em. Who made 'em?
Who cares? We just like
them.
See where I'm
going with this? Worst case scenario, Mr. Nicosia has some
fiendish plot to
make himself look cool by putting Kerouac's archives in
a museum or
university. Ok...so what? The result is they are in a museum
or university for
the world to look at. What the hell could he possibly
gain? He doesn't
own them so he would make nothing off the sale.
Basically I'm saying..Your rantings are
getting tedious as you skirt the
issues and just
make idiot tirades about what a "mean man" Mr. Nicosia
is. I don't care
if he is or isn't. I will never meet the man. I love his
novel
"Memory Babe" and I admire that he is trying to get Kerouac's stuff
in an accessible
place for all.
I think I can speak for most people here in
saying we don't care about
your personal
issues with Mr. Nicosia. This is not the
'Phil-Chaput-doesn't-like-Mr.
Nicosia-L'
My two cents worth-
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:00:51 +0300
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ilkka Kuosmanen <ik56385@UTA.FI>
Subject: the mysterious Corso
Dear all,
I am new here and
have been following the interesting discussions
on this list
concerning the Beats for a while now.
But whatever happened
to Corso?! I am currently working on a paper on Corso's
poetry, and since
I know that there
are many 'experts' here, I would like to ask you a
question
concerning his poetry. In the poem
called "Clown" he has the
following line:
"And for God
I am ready with a mouthful of penguins."
Does anyone know
or have any idea as to the meaning of the word
"penguins"? I know that he uses the same expression in at
least a
couple of other
poems as well, so I'm guessing that it's more than just a
whimsical surrealistic
image. Perhaps drug lingo? Also, if anyone knows
any academic work
that has previously been done on Corso, I'm all ears.
Ilkka
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:30:08 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@sprog.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "B. Sorensen"
<i12bent@SPROG.AUC.DK>
Subject: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
On Mon, 12 May
1997 13:32:16 -0700,
Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Thoughts on
the standout tracks (in my opinion at least):
>
>Richard
Lewis' American Trinity of Love: This was the biggest
>surprise...Lewis
abandons his neurotic Jewish comedian shtick and shows
>actual talent
impersonating Kerouac.
Is that the
intention - to impersonate JK, that is? It sure sounds a lot
like Kerouac's
voice does on the box set....
>Juliana
Hatfield's Silly Goofball Pomes: I can't believe some people are
>down on this
one...she gives a fresh, whimsical reading, which is what
>Jack probably
intended. It's a refreshing departure from the usual
>morose feel
of some of Jack's other pomes.
I'm with you
there, Adrien. It's the one piece that makes you smile rather
than snigger.
>John Cale's
The Moon: One of the very best, perfectly interpreted.
Beautiful stuff,
but you would expect nothing less from Cale...
I'm surprised
no-one has mentioned Eric Andersen's contribution, the 10th
Chorus of Broklyn
Bridge Blues. For me that was a great mood piece - made
me want to buy
that bridge. Anybody selling?
Perhaps my liking
is coloured by my general fandom of Andersen. Check him
out - he is a
legendary songwriter in his own right, although his career
was sidetracked
by his propensity for drinking, hiding out in Norway, and
his record
company's amazing incompetence - they once lost all the master
tapes for one of
his albums....!
Regards,
bs
Department of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
http://www.hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.uk.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:37:54 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: AC46 <ac46@LEICESTER.AC.UK>
Subject: The horror! The horror!
I can't believe
that I'm reading things about a Prankster reunion. Why
can monumental
experiments like that taken by Kesey and the "Neon
Revolution"
not just be left to history.
I was nowhere
near to being born in the sixties, but the Beats and
"hippies"
are my heroes. When I see them revamped and updated it makes
me lose some of
the love that I had for them in the first place. A year
ago I was given
tickets to go see Dylan. Since that day I cannot listen
to Dylan without
partly seeing the old, haggard, out of tune man that I
saw at the
concert. That is not to say that I no longer love Dylan's
work, but I am
just dissapointed by his reluctance to move with the
times. In the
last few years we have seen Woodstock 2, which in true
nineties style
went off with a wimper, the return of the beatles, and
now Kesey and co.
are back, no doubt with Day-Glo paint all over their
zimmer frames and
taking the bus to the post office every tuesday to
collect their
pensions.
I am not
questioning the validity of these aspects of sixties culture, I
am merely
expressing my dissappointment at the Pranksters for doing it
all again in the
nineties. Maybe there is not enough in our generation
which can be held
as representative of the counteculture, but I for one
would rather see
an unknown group of 20 yr olds who were making valid
nineties
statements, than make a pilgrimage to see the Pranksters who
belonged to a
very specific and real "moment" in American history.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:53:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!
On Tue, 13 May
1997 13:37:54 +0100, AC46 wrote:
>A year ago I
was given tickets to go see Dylan. Since
>that day I
cannot listen to Dylan without partly seeing
>the old,
haggard, out of tune man that I saw at the concert.
>That is not
to say that I no longer love Dylan's work, but I
>am just
dissapointed by his reluctance to move with the
>times.
Please explain
your dissapointment with "his reluctance to
move with the
times." When has Dylan ever moved
with
the times? Are you looking for techno-Dylan? Dylan has
been doing what
he's been doing for 37 years, he's perfectly
happy with what
he's doing, so are his long-term fans.
People
seem to forget
the enormous impact this man has had on
rock-n-roll and
its culture. Dylan changes more than you
give him credit
for, to quote Bob, "do you think he's just an
errand boy to
satisfy your wandering desires?" If
you're
looking for
crystal clear, perfect Dylan, you'll never find it.
Part of what
makes him who he is (or all of us for that matter),
are his flaws,
imperfections, etc.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:24:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: New JK books for Fall
Gerry and all:
I checked the
copyright law properly this time before posting. Please ignore
unless you're
really interested as it gets complicated.
>From 1909 onwards,
copyright was provided for 28 years from date of
publication. At
the end of 28 years you could renew for another 47 years,
making 75 in all.
If you failed to renew, 28 was all you got. HOWEVER, in
1992 the renewal
aspect was significantly changed, and renewal was granted
AUTOMATICALLY to
all books published after January 1, 1964. Now nearly all
the dates you
listed in this post fall just before that date, bt you don't
list all the
dates, so it's possible some of the works may still be
protected.
Anything published after 1978 of falls under the new Death+50
rule (though it
may well become Death+70 in the next few years).
As for your
comment about can you sell books not yet assembled to a
publisher, of
course that's perfectly possible if both sides are willing to
take the risk and
there's enough money put up front by the publisher. It's a
bit like the
infamous 'player to be named later' trade.
Best
Nick W-W
>
> All I had heard was that Sampas made a
6 book deal for unpublished
>Kerouac with
Viking Penguin in 1993, just weeks before MEMORY BABE got
>(coincidentally?)
kicked out of Viking Penguin. This
included the two
>volumes of
letters, SOME OF THE DHARMA, BOOK OF BLUES, WAKE UP, and one
>other. I don't see how Sampas could sell them
"all the unpublished Kerouac"
>since there
are literally hundreds of notebooks filled with writing that was
>never
published (many of them breast pocket notebooks), and future books
>will have to
be carved out of them by an astute editor.
Can he sell books
>that have not
yet even been assembled???
> OKAY, here's the report from Thomson
& Thomson, considered the
>foremost
copyright research authority in the business.
This particular
>report was
prepared for Jan's copyright lawyer Herbert Jacoby by Timothy J.
>Herbert.
> It lists the following books as without
copyright renewal. All of
>Kerouac's
books fell under the old system, which meant the copyright had to
>be renewed
after 28 years from date of publication, with a one year grace
>period. Since all of the books below are past that
one year grace period,
>they are, to
the best of my knowledge, in public domain:
> THE AMERICANS (only the text by
Kerouac, not the photographs, of
course)
> BIG SUR
> BOOK OF DREAMS (only the text published
by City Lights in 1961; note
>the original
manuscript was much larger than what was published by City
>Lights, and
so much of the original text is still unpublished and belongs to
>John Sampas.)
> EXCERPTS FROM VISIONS OF CODY (the New
Directions special edition,
>published in
1960) (about 1/3 of the final text, I believe)
> MAGGIE CASSIDY
> PULL MY DAISY (only Jack's ad-libbed
text by Grove Press, published
>in 1961; the
song was renewed by Amram et al. in 1988.)
> SCRIPTURE OF THE GOLDEN ETERNITY
> TRISTESSA
> OLD ANGEL MIDNIGHT (the two excerpts
published in BIG TABLE in 1959
>and in
EVERGREEN REVIEW in 1964.)
> Well, you don't believe Sterling Lord
is responsible? Jan signed an
>agreement
with the Sampases in 1986 (so that they would finally pay her the
>royalty
income she was due). That agreement
confirmed that Stella and Jan
>should split
ownership of the copyright renewals, and it made Stella's
>agent,
Sterling Lord, Jan's agent too--for the rest of her life! It also
>said that
Lord would be "both parties' representative of said renewals."
> I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know who
was responsible. Mr. Lord?
>Mr.
Sampas? Mr. Sampas's lawyer? There may be a malpractice suit here
>worth
millions to someone, but it requires investigation.
> For the time being, I'm out of the
loop, since Mr. Lash has got me
>tied up in a
challenge to my executorship in the appellate court of Santa
>Fe, New
Mexico.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:55:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970512134717.18000A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
ahh i must admit
this little thread has made me feel quite young here, not
being able to
remember those glorious 60s, having to read cuckoo's nest in
high school...hm.
so before folx go off the deep end about kesey and his
work, just let me
say that's not what this post is about, never liked his
work, maybe
someday i will but i doubt it...
anyways, here i
agree with adrien, this whole pranksters thing a pathetic
attempt...as well
as the Futher Festival (with the some Greatful Dead
offshoots, etc),
and the fact that good ole Yasgur's farm is going to be a
theme park by the
turn of the century (this is no joke, folks). a good time
for rememberances
if you're of that age group i suppose, but i can't stand
seeing ppl my age
(22) standing there hippie'd to the gills going 'aw man i
was born 30 yrs
late. you got that joint, man?'
Derek said:
> who else
would have the gall & guts to drive a 1949
>international
harvester acid trip from one side of the country to the
>other...
i did it myself
last summer, albeit not in a harvester, but with a bunch of
us driving from
here (madison, wi) to san francisco, august last year...far
from sober,
amazing...frisbee at three in the morning some iowa wayside i
was convinced the
thing was a large, glowing, hovering nabisco nilla wafer,
and refused to
get back in the car, instead staring at the headlites for a
minute while my
friends were determined and laughably failing to get up on
the roof of a
pavilion...or the red redness of utah mountains, sudden
flatness of
salt...yeah long acid roadtrips may have been groundbreaking 30
years ago, but
i've got friends who do them every year now, for the whole
summer, and no
they're not following phish or the undead dead. we know what
DID happen but
it's irrelevant to us because we concentrate on what CAN
happen. sick of
cultural recycling...Try flying from
Chicago to Prague and
Prague to Chicago
on ecstasy there's something new...(well, kinda)
There is too much
new going on to be stuck in the old. like it or not,
future is where
we're headed. the ideas and concepts laid down by KK and
crew, AG, Jk,
even my dear WSB need to be taken and listened to and
reapplied. very
few things are timeless. ideas that affect society hardly
are, seeing that
society is a fast changing monster. most
ppl living
entirely
(remember that word) by philosophies and ways laid down 30 yrs ago
are clueless and
closed to so many things, IMHO.
I latched onto
burroughs real quick because he seemed future-oriented; a
place i wanted to
go, and yet need some sort of intro to.
to paraphrase:
'the future of
writing is in space, not time'. i liked that. that got to
me. with the
exception of some of AG's poems, i could give fuck-all for
most of the other
beats...Jk always came across as some guy who had a few
good roadtrips
and times and then drank the very long night away at his
catholic mother's
house in good ole safe Mass. Cassady riding the magic
carpet that was
Ag's infatuation to some sort of glorified chauffer version
of fame. the first 3rd? more like the last
8th.heh...those who latched on
in the late 60s,
70s were worse to me, i didn't even bother to find out
much about them
after reading their materials. But without all of them, so
many things would
probably be left unsaid, and the grand story would be
incomplete. so i
take those facts, which _are_ important to me, and apply
it to what i do.
i've read enough WSB. now i need to apply these ideas to
what i do.
..etc etc. back
to KK and his MPs. There are too many things going on now
that are rooted
in what's going on now; taking our advancements and being
creative,
outrageous, disruptive with them, interrupting a flow and putting
you, maybe just
briefly, into a wild possible future. that's what charms
me: it's a
possible future, not definite. when
you're doing something
past-based, there
is only one possible course of action, one that follows
the path of those
events already taken. altho i admit ther'll probably be
much spontinaeity
involved with KK and the MPs, but it will be based on a
same philosophy.
For those who were around back then, it'll be a wonderful
one, but based on
sentimentality, not new ideas, not any groundbreaking.
and to say well
it _was_ groundbreaking back in the day;
yeah, so was
hooking up a
horse to a buggy.
I admit to a
shortage of things as of late. Raves used to be an outing of
choice: 100s or
1000s of ppl in some huge secret location, dancing to
future.music,
taking care of each other, having surreal, induced
conversations.
It's a younger crowd now, concerned mainly with the drugs
and the clothes,
and being 'underground'. there are huge similarities in
fundamental
philosophies of rave and hippie culture, but the approach is
very different.
but now, all of it seems corrupted.
for those of you
wanting to see/feel something new, with similar outlook,
feeling to it: 'A
Little Furthur' memorial day weekend, and 'Even Furthur'
july 18-21,
electric campout festivals, location usually an undisclosed
campgrounds
somewhere in Wisconsin. this event has
been going on for 3 yrs
now, and gets
better every year. and they even use a picture of the
Pranksters bus on
the flyer. i get an indescribeable kick going to these
things, like the
universe just all clicks together for a few days, and
everyone can be
far from beat for a little while.
Pranksters? I'll
stay home and read a book.
Obviously, i've
been meandering here. Apologies, and no offense...
-zach
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:12:45 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
Zach Hoon wrote:
>
> ahh i must
admit this little thread has made me feel quite young here, not
> being able
to remember those glorious 60s, having to read cuckoo's nest in
> high
school...hm. so before folx go off the deep end about kesey and his
> work, just
let me say that's not what this post is about, never liked his
> work, maybe
someday i will but i doubt it...
> anyways, here
i agree with adrien, this whole pranksters thing a pathetic
> attempt...as
well as the Futher Festival (with the some Greatful Dead
> offshoots,
etc), and the fact that good ole Yasgur's farm is going to be a
> theme park
by the turn of the century (this is no joke, folks). a good time
> for
rememberances if you're of that age group i suppose, but i can't stand
> seeing ppl
my age (22) standing there hippie'd to the gills going 'aw man i
> was born 30
yrs late. you got that joint, man?'
> Derek said:
> > who
else would have the gall & guts to drive a 1949
>
>international harvester acid trip from one side of the country to the
> >other...
> i did it
myself last summer, albeit not in a harvester, but with a bunch of
> us driving
from here (madison, wi) to san francisco, august last year...far
> from sober,
amazing...frisbee at three in the morning some iowa wayside i
> was
convinced the thing was a large, glowing, hovering nabisco nilla wafer,
> and refused
to get back in the car, instead staring at the headlites for a
> minute while
my friends were determined and laughably failing to get up on
> the roof of
a pavilion...or the red redness of utah mountains, sudden
> flatness of
salt...yeah long acid roadtrips may have been groundbreaking 30
> years ago,
but i've got friends who do them every year now, for the whole
> summer, and
no they're not following phish or the undead dead. we know what
> DID happen
but it's irrelevant to us because we concentrate on what CAN
> happen. sick
of cultural recycling...Try flying from
Chicago to Prague and
> Prague to
Chicago on ecstasy there's something new...(well, kinda)
> There is too
much new going on to be stuck in the old. like it or not,
> future is
where we're headed. the ideas and concepts laid down by KK and
> crew, AG,
Jk, even my dear WSB need to be taken and listened to and
> reapplied.
very few things are timeless. ideas that affect society hardly
> are, seeing
that society is a fast changing monster.
most ppl living
> entirely (remember
that word) by philosophies and ways laid down 30 yrs ago
> are clueless
and closed to so many things, IMHO.
> I latched
onto burroughs real quick because he seemed future-oriented; a
> place i
wanted to go, and yet need some sort of intro to. to paraphrase:
> 'the future
of writing is in space, not time'. i liked that. that got to
> me. with the
exception of some of AG's poems, i could give fuck-all for
> most of the
other beats...Jk always came across as some guy who had a few
> good roadtrips
and times and then drank the very long night away at his
> catholic
mother's house in good ole safe Mass. Cassady riding the magic
> carpet that
was Ag's infatuation to some sort of glorified chauffer version
> of
fame. the first 3rd? more like the last
8th.heh...those who latched on
> in the late
60s, 70s were worse to me, i didn't even bother to find out
> much about
them after reading their materials. But without all of them, so
> many things
would probably be left unsaid, and the grand story would be
> incomplete.
so i take those facts, which _are_ important to me, and apply
> it to what i
do. i've read enough WSB. now i need to apply these ideas to
> what i do.
> ..etc etc.
back to KK and his MPs. There are too many things going on now
> that are
rooted in what's going on now; taking our advancements and being
> creative,
outrageous, disruptive with them, interrupting a flow and putting
> you, maybe
just briefly, into a wild possible future. that's what charms
> me: it's a
possible future, not definite. when
you're doing something
> past-based,
there is only one possible course of action, one that follows
> the path of
those events already taken. altho i admit ther'll probably be
> much
spontinaeity involved with KK and the MPs, but it will be based on a
> same
philosophy. For those who were around back then, it'll be a wonderful
> one, but
based on sentimentality, not new ideas, not any groundbreaking.
> and to say
well it _was_ groundbreaking back in the
day; yeah, so was
> hooking up a
horse to a buggy.
> I admit to a
shortage of things as of late. Raves used to be an outing of
> choice: 100s
or 1000s of ppl in some huge secret location, dancing to
>
future.music, taking care of each other, having surreal, induced
> conversations.
It's a younger crowd now, concerned mainly with the drugs
> and the
clothes, and being 'underground'. there are huge similarities in
> fundamental
philosophies of rave and hippie culture, but the approach is
> very
different. but now, all of it seems corrupted.
> for those of
you wanting to see/feel something new, with similar outlook,
> feeling to
it: 'A Little Furthur' memorial day weekend, and 'Even Furthur'
> july 18-21,
electric campout festivals, location usually an undisclosed
> campgrounds
somewhere in Wisconsin. this event has
been going on for 3 yrs
> now, and
gets better every year. and they even use a picture of the
> Pranksters
bus on the flyer. i get an indescribeable kick going to these
> things, like
the universe just all clicks together for a few days, and
> everyone can
be far from beat for a little while.
> Pranksters?
I'll stay home and read a book.
> Obviously,
i've been meandering here. Apologies, and no offense...
>
> -zach
You make the
Pranksters sound as dull as Ward and June Cleaver and
Dwight and Mamie
Eisenhower. That's not half bad. Living in the past
is silly. a bit of remembrance now and then is ...
perhaps sentimental
but what the fuck
it is fun to be sentimental. i remember
a group i
hung out with a
few years ago that pledged to get together when we were
80 and drop acid
for a big fling. it would be
sentimental. it would be
new too. it ain't gonna happen i'm almost certain.
i think it is
stupid to place Kesey or others on a pedestal just as it
is silly to place
oneself there. pedestals fall, crash and
burn.
i ain't certain
the future is all it's cracked up to be.
no offense.
it seems your
generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
us..... :)
rambling on and
on and blah blah blah from kansas plains.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:20:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Final estate details (for a while)
.... Your a nut
case...you couldn't get anyone to buy it you finally sold it to
>U-Lowell for
whatever terms you could get...Sorry, but if you
>want to
listen to the taped interviews, you must have written permission
>from the
subjects...
May 13, 1997
Phil, your reply is full of bull crap
from one end to the other.
No one wanted the largest collection of
Kerouac primary source
material in the
world? 300 interviews with people who
knew Kerouac? Are
you selling the
Brooklyn Bridge too?
I chose to put all that material in
Lowell because I thought that's
where the most
Kerouac scholars would get to see it.
When I put it there,
the university
knew there were no individual permissions (there rarely are
with ANY
archive), and the university promised to make the material
accessible to the
public. They DID MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE
until 1995, when John
Sampas came to
complain to them.
Martha Mayo herself told me that. Later, she added "the woman from
Connecticut,"
but she refuses to name her. Why can't
she name her if she
named John
Sampas?
You deliberately quoted pieces of that
article out of context. It
was Martha Mayo
claiming that "if you want to listen to the taped
interviews, you
must have written permission," not the reporter. Of course
she's claiming
this, it's her excuse for letting Mr. Sampas have his way
about closing the
collection.
When Michigan State University scholar
Shari Krishnan complained
about being
turned away from the MEMORY BABE collection, she received a
phone call
from--guess who?--JOHN SAMPAS! (Not
"the woman from
Connecticut.") Sampas told Ms. Krishnan that she had to go
thru him to see
materials in the
collection, and that there were certain materials he would
not allow her to
see.
I'm a "nut"? I received my MASTER'S DEGREE WITH HIGHEST
DISTINCTION
IN ENGLISH FROM
THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS, as a result of which I was
awarded a FOUR
YEAR FELLOWSHIP IN ENGLISH TO UCLA,
Later, I received the
DISTINGUISHED
YOUNG WRITER AWARD FROM THE NATIONAL SOCIETY OF ARTS AND
LETTERS FOR
MEMORY BABE. I've been a featured
speaker at FIVE MAJOR KEROUAC
CONFERENCES IN
THREE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.
What exactly are your credentials for
making all these
pronouncements
about Kerouac scholarship? Having dinner
every night with
John Sampas?
I'm through arguing with you about
Kerouac scholarship. It's a
waste of my
time. I want to speak with someone who's
MY EQUAL.
I.e., please tell Mr. Sampas to send in
the first-string team now.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:20:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rodgers
<Rodgers@TRACOR-A4.CCMAIL.VITRO.COM>
Subject: Paul Blake, Jr.
Mr. Nicosia:
Couldn't Mr. Blake pick up a few bucks for
himself by writing a book
about his relationship with his uncle
Jack?
Ron Rodgers
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:03:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To: <337884ED.3034@midusa.net>
david rhaesa
said:
>i ain't
certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>it seems your
generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
>us..... :)
oh definitely. i
think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
what i was
saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
kids welling up,
another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
hopefully they
will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
just different,
and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
back in the 60's
there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
war), and i don't
think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
gov't side
tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
the 90s, what? i
don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
abortion? aids?
this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
cults: Oklahoma
City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
Trade Center,
Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
a march against
that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
a 3 day war that
was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
pickett signs
made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
iraqis in the
sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
bunkers that we
_know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
our faithful
soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
that's really the
reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
not, don't
bother).
So i have a lot
of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
those involved in
the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
to drive my
generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
the next
$%&^# Batman movie.
but oh well. i
rant. apaologies.
-zach
i'm all for it.
-z
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:37:15 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
Zach Hoon wrote:
>
> david rhaesa
said:
> >i ain't
certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
> >it seems
your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
> >us.....
:)
>
> oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
> what i was
saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
> kids welling
up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
> hopefully
they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
> just
different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
> back in the
60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
> war), and i
don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
> gov't side
tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
> the 90s,
what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
> abortion?
aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
> cults:
Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
> Trade
Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
> a march
against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
> a 3 day war
that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
> pickett
signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
> iraqis in
the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
> bunkers that
we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
> our faithful
soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
> that's
really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
> not, don't
bother).
> So i have a
lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
> those
involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
> to drive my
generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
> the next
$%&^# Batman movie.
> but oh well.
i rant. apaologies.
>
> -zach
> i'm all for
it.
>
> -z
well after
reading your post i listened to burroughs' words of advice
for young people
about 33 times and re-read your post and thought about
it long and hard
and decided that the sixties have been forgotten
somewhat if
they're only about "movements", that the sixties had their
fair share of
lunatics on both sides of the law-and-order game, but i
was just a young
kid knee-high to a small donkey (burrough/jack ass)
when that was all
going on and i guess i fall in the 'tweener'
generation that
never amounted to much of anything for anyone to
anyplace at
anytime. and so what!!! i think Ken Kesey and his geeser
pals should drive
their bus to eternity and back if they want to and
that they say in
big letters Never trust a Prankster so the younger
generations
myself and the 'tweeners' included who get caught in the
hype of it all
deserve exactly what we get. anytime
you're dealing with
a prankster or
someone with a movement attached to their name "get it in
writing!!!!"
....
time for my
siesta as a casualty of the "tweener" generation, i am
prescribed to
enjoy a siesta or two every day whether the magic bus is
flying by
airplane, train or flatbad pickup truck with Vegas plates.
the Hall of Fame
of the "tweener" generation will include: ????????
help, fill in the
blanks please please oh please .... off to sleep enjoy
y'alls work-a-day-work
and roadtrips and all that jazz/jacuzzi junk.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:32:11 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"The horror of ken going furthur"@cruzio.com
Hey dude, and
yous men and gals and grrrls, women folks, who else
is/ain't part of
me/us, anyone not here now get with it anyone?
I think there is
something going on with us that we can't put our
fingers quite on,
or it comes out a litle garbled or something, fuck off
all of you
others, not me's, and you is them there, or is it something
in ourselves that
we are so uneasy about that we can't fan our fire's
exuberance
without chasing someone out, out of the picture, get out a
here, you ain't
nothin' but a shadow of the past or are you a nobody
nothing from now.
Like directors of a play who are afraid that they have
to control
everybody's actions on the stage? Hey folks see those clowns
hollering for
attention? Please don't give them no never mind, they
ain't nothin but
goofballs, look at me, look at me, don't follow therm,
follow me, me me
me. Oh, that shit again. So what else is new?
When my weekend
comes on Monday, I would like to go over your post in
depth and detail,
for the moment I want to tell you that I like your
post a lot. Fresh
and alive and good energy moving ahead. How can I feel
so good about it
on the verge of 27, oops, 72! I know there are very
good reasons. Too
busy at the moment to look into it. be late for work.
That alone could
disqualify me then, not so much now.
Maybe it's
because I too loved Madison. Spent more time sailing on lake
Mendota, and in
the Rathskeller than in the classrooms, but those were
ok too. some of
them. Here I go again giving my age away. Hey, that's
what it is. Age
discrimination. Pure and simple. Everybody does it, kid.
That's why I am
happy to have a part time very low paying job. Never
missed a day's
work in five years at least. Why else would anyone
complain about a
bunch of guys going on a fun trip, thinking they have
something to say
, too? Are you objecting to anything they said on this
trip? Are you
objecting because they are too proud of threir entry in
the parade over
thirtry years ago, hell, for having started that parade
then? Love to
hear the further, fun and future advancements. As Kesey
was singing in
the Filmore of SF taking his bus to a final resting place
of honor in the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame museum in Cleveland, "Hip Hip
Hurray, Hip Hip
Hurray" to anyone who is doing a great trip, "Hip Hip
Hurray, to you
too Zach. If you are in the Santa Cruz area, I might know
of a good rave. I
guarantee you no one will ask you to move off the
stage because of
your age, or costume, or local dialect, or temporary
fad.
Leon
Zach Hoon wrote:
>
> ahh i must
admit this little thread has made me feel quite young here, not
> being able
to remember those glorious 60s, having to read cuckoo's nest in
> high
school...hm. so before folx go off the deep end about kesey and his
> work, just
let me say that's not what this post is about, never liked his
> work, maybe
someday i will but i doubt it...
> anyways,
here i agree with adrien, this whole pranksters thing a pathetic
> attempt...as
well as the Futher Festival (with the some Greatful Dead
> offshoots,
etc), and the fact that good ole Yasgur's farm is going to be a
> theme park
by the turn of the century (this is no joke, folks). a good time
> for
rememberances if you're of that age group i suppose, but i can't stand
> seeing ppl
my age (22) standing there hippie'd to the gills going 'aw man i
> was born 30
yrs late. you got that joint, man?'
> Derek said:
> > who
else would have the gall & guts to drive a 1949
>
>international harvester acid trip from one side of the country to the
> >other...
> i did it
myself last summer, albeit not in a harvester, but with a bunch of
> us driving
from here (madison, wi) to san francisco, august last year...far
> from sober,
amazing...frisbee at three in the morning some iowa wayside i
> was
convinced the thing was a large, glowing, hovering nabisco nilla wafer,
> and refused
to get back in the car, instead staring at the headlites for a
> minute while
my friends were determined and laughably failing to get up on
> the roof of
a pavilion...or the red redness of utah mountains, sudden
> flatness of
salt...yeah long acid roadtrips may have been groundbreaking 30
> years ago,
but i've got friends who do them every year now, for the whole
> summer, and
no they're not following phish or the undead dead. we know what
> DID happen
but it's irrelevant to us because we concentrate on what CAN
> happen. sick
of cultural recycling...Try flying from
Chicago to Prague and
> Prague to
Chicago on ecstasy there's something new...(well, kinda)
> There is too
much new going on to be stuck in the old. like it or not,
> future is
where we're headed. the ideas and concepts laid down by KK and
> crew, AG,
Jk, even my dear WSB need to be taken and listened to and
> reapplied.
very few things are timeless. ideas that affect society hardly
> are, seeing
that society is a fast changing monster.
most ppl living
> entirely
(remember that word) by philosophies and ways laid down 30 yrs ago
> are clueless
and closed to so many things, IMHO.
> I latched
onto burroughs real quick because he seemed future-oriented; a
> place i
wanted to go, and yet need some sort of intro to. to paraphrase:
> 'the future
of writing is in space, not time'. i liked that. that got to
> me. with the
exception of some of AG's poems, i could give fuck-all for
> most of the
other beats...Jk always came across as some guy who had a few
> good
roadtrips and times and then drank the very long night away at his
> catholic
mother's house in good ole safe Mass. Cassady riding the magic
> carpet that
was Ag's infatuation to some sort of glorified chauffer version
> of fame. the first 3rd? more like the last
8th.heh...those who latched on
> in the late
60s, 70s were worse to me, i didn't even bother to find out
> much about
them after reading their materials. But without all of them, so
> many things
would probably be left unsaid, and the grand story would be
> incomplete.
so i take those facts, which _are_ important to me, and apply
> it to what i
do. i've read enough WSB. now i need to apply these ideas to
> what i do.
> ..etc etc.
back to KK and his MPs. There are too many things going on now
> that are
rooted in what's going on now; taking our advancements and being
> creative,
outrageous, disruptive with them, interrupting a flow and putting
> you, maybe
just briefly, into a wild possible future. that's what charms
> me: it's a
possible future, not definite. when
you're doing something
> past-based,
there is only one possible course of action, one that follows
> the path of
those events already taken. altho i admit ther'll probably be
> much
spontinaeity involved with KK and the MPs, but it will be based on a
> same
philosophy. For those who were around back then, it'll be a wonderful
> one, but
based on sentimentality, not new ideas, not any groundbreaking.
> and to say
well it _was_ groundbreaking back in the
day; yeah, so was
> hooking up a
horse to a buggy.
> I admit to a
shortage of things as of late. Raves used to be an outing of
> choice: 100s
or 1000s of ppl in some huge secret location, dancing to
>
future.music, taking care of each other, having surreal, induced
>
conversations. It's a younger crowd now, concerned mainly with the drugs
> and the
clothes, and being 'underground'. there are huge similarities in
> fundamental
philosophies of rave and hippie culture, but the approach is
> very
different. but now, all of it seems corrupted.
> for those of
you wanting to see/feel something new, with similar outlook,
> feeling to
it: 'A Little Furthur' memorial day weekend, and 'Even Furthur'
> july 18-21,
electric campout festivals, location usually an undisclosed
> campgrounds
somewhere in Wisconsin. this event has
been going on for 3 yrs
> now, and
gets better every year. and they even use a picture of the
> Pranksters
bus on the flyer. i get an indescribeable kick going to these
> things, like
the universe just all clicks together for a few days, and
> everyone can
be far from beat for a little while.
> Pranksters?
I'll stay home and read a book.
> Obviously,
i've been meandering here. Apologies, and no offense...
>
> -zach
> .-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:44:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Gibbons, Jeffrey x85139e1"
<x85139@EXMAIL.USMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
Zach,
Just wondering if
you thought that the only reason to have a war is so
protestors can
picket. Granted our intentions in the
Gulf War were
based mainly for
economic security. However, I think it's
naive to
think that Saddam
was going to simply invade Kuwait and that would end
it. His intentions were certainly larger than
just the port of Kuwait.
He tested the
U.S. (and its coalition) to see if we had the guts to
attack, and he
failed the test. Sometimes there are
wars (if you can
call the battles
in 1991 a war) that are necessary. Sorry
to make this
statement on the
"Beat" list, I will try to keep future postings to
strictly Beat
related topics.
Jeff
>----------
>From: Zach Hoon[SMTP:junky@BURROUGHS.NET]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 11:03 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
>Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
>
>david rhaesa
said:
>>i ain't
certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>>it seems
your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
>>us.....
:)
>
>oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
>what i was
saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
>kids welling
up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
>hopefully
they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
>just
different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
>back in the
60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
>war), and i
don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
>gov't side
tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
>the 90s,
what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
>abortion?
aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
>cults:
Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
>Trade Center,
Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
>a march
against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
>a 3 day war
that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
>pickett signs
made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
>iraqis in the
sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
>bunkers that
we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
>our faithful
soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
>that's really
the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
>not, don't
bother).
>So i have a
lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
>those
involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
>to drive my
generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
>the next
$%&^# Batman movie.
>but oh well.
i rant. apaologies.
>
>-zach
>i'm all for
it.
>
>-z
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:47:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re:
Kicks, Joy, Darkness AND A RIP-OFF
In-Reply-To:
<9704128634.AA863460932@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
12May97 Wes
Lundburg <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US> wrote
>I do like the
Johhny Depp reading, although I hate to admit it (don't ask me
>why, I just
don't like him).
Have to point out
that the royalties due Jan Kerouac from this Johnny Depp
reading were
never paid to her. Producers of the show state that Jan gave
permission for
the material used by Depp. This is not true. She never gave
permission for
the material to be used. I have asked to see documentation
regarding Jan
giving permission and have not received a reply. Since
permission from
Jan doesn't exist they would have to come up with
permission from
John Sampas and they will not do this.
This is a case of
Jahn Sampas picking up $50,000.00 from Depp for a Jack
Kerouac coat and
giving him permission to use the material and not pay
royalties.
It's my
understanding that the Sampas Estate would also have recieved
royalties,
but since they received the $50,000.00
gave permission to use
the material
royalty free.
Could the TV
Production afford the fee? Of course they could. It was simply
another case of
the estate making sure Jan Keroauc did not get what was
legally coming to
her.
Jahn Sampas made
out. Jan Keroauc got shafted--again.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:49:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Gibbons, Jeffrey x85139e1"
<x85139@EXMAIL.USMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
I should have
added to my last post, drive on Ken Kesey, Bob Dylan,
Furthur Festival,
Bob Weir and Ratdog, Mickey Hart and his Mystery
Box...etc. etc.
>----------
>From: Zach Hoon[SMTP:junky@BURROUGHS.NET]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 11:03 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
>Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
>
>david rhaesa
said:
>>i ain't
certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>>it seems
your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
>>us.....
:)
>
>oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
>what i was
saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
>kids welling
up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
>hopefully
they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
>just
different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
>back in the
60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
>war), and i
don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
>gov't side
tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
>the 90s,
what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
>abortion?
aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
>cults:
Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
>Trade Center,
Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
>a march
against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
>a 3 day war
that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
>pickett signs
made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
>iraqis in the
sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
>bunkers that
we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
>our faithful
soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
>that's really
the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
>not, don't
bother).
>So i have a
lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
>those
involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
>to drive my
generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
>the next
$%&^# Batman movie.
>but oh well.
i rant. apaologies.
>
>-zach
>i'm all for
it.
>
>-z
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:53:24 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: no more to say & nothing to weep for
i mentioned earlier last week that there would
be a documentary in the uk on sunday night /
monday
morning...well there was and it was titled
No More To Say And Nothing To Weep For
i'm guessing that its the same television
programme
that was shown a little earlier in the states.
i watched it all.
obviously put together after his death, i was
a little
bemused by the fact they didn't once mention
neil cassady
or william burroughs! i'm aware he led an amazingly
fulfilled life, more than can be crammed into
a
one hour documentary, but nc & wsb were
only shown
on photographs!
also who was the guy who said ginsberg was a
little
naive about politics? what happened during that interview?
the interviewer really took the piss out of
ginsberg to belittle
him infront of that firing squad.
anyone else see this documentary have any
thoughts
on this?
also, as an aside, apart from an allen
ginsberg interview
i've nothing regarding beat gen on video so
that was the
first time i'd seen the kerouac / steve allen
show. man,
i wished i'd have heard him read road all the
way thru...
joe,
newcastle united kingdom
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:51:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Comments: MAA11719 on camphor (hop 0), Tue, 13 May
1997 12:51:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randi Jaclyn Friedman
<rfiedma@GROVE.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: subscribe me
Comments: To:
SlugBug747@AOL.COM
In-Reply-To:
<970427001803_-831476971@emout02.mail.aol.com>
PLease take me off the list.
rfiedma@grove.ufl.edu
On Sun, 27 Apr
1997 SlugBug747@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hey can you
subscribe me please!
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:15:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ron Guest
<rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Fatty??
FATTY?? Are you
kidding me? I got a little fast on the
delete key, but I
think someone
called someone else a fatty on here.
Having a great time
reading the
Kerouac Estate Debate..keep it coming..but fatty? We'll take
that up at
recess.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:18:59 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Fatty??
Ron Guest wrote:
>
> FATTY?? Are
you kidding me? I got a little fast on
the delete key, but I
> think
someone called someone else a fatty on here.
Having a great time
> reading the
Kerouac Estate Debate..keep it coming..but fatty? We'll take
> that up at
recess.
expecting
"pants-on-fire" any minute now ...
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:24:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: A Question for G. Nicosia/not Estate
related!!
In-Reply-To:
<970510213306_811267926@emout15.mail.aol.com>
>In a message
dated 97-05-10 19:47:58 EDT, you write:
>
><< You
might ask Jeffrey Weinberg if book
> misprints
are as valuable as those in stamps and coins. >>
>
>In the case
of the Memory Babe misprint, there is no extra worth attached to
>such a
copy...But you should send the copy to Gerry and ask him to sign it
>for you
anyway.
>Just don't
forget to add return postage....
>JW
>Water Row Books
JW,
Your post is
interesting. There is no doubt in my mind that sending a book
to Gerry with
return postage would be a safe move.
Back a few years
ago, when I learned the value of a pre-publication edition
of Catch 22 that
I have I mentioned to a publisher friend that I was going
to send it to
Joseph Heller and ask him to sign it. He told me, "Don't do
it! You'll never
see the book again."
I couldn't
imagine that happening. I have no information about Heller being
that kind of person,
but didn't want to take the chance. What do you think?
Is it risky?
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:30:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Re: The hilarity of ken going to war
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=USGOV%l=EXMAIL10-970513164412Z-61132@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Jeff said:
>Just
wondering if you thought that the only reason to have a war is so
>protestors
can picket.
War is unreal to
me. it's history. it's televised. it's not going on now
(at least
involving our country, so it's not prominent on the news etc...)
I could put on
the beads and flowers and say : 'there's no reason at all to
have a war', and
ideally, that's what should be. but i'm not an idealistic
person; this
isn't an idealistic world. although the US was probably right
for hoppin' into
the gulf fray, there have been many more noble or
'necessary'
causes of war, IMHO. Coalitions, alliances....bah...i'm not one
for politics. so
the only reason for war is so the soldiers can fight so
the protesters
can protest so the civilians can enjoy their freedom while
making money from
making bullets and missles so the
generals have jobs and
the president
looks pretty and heroic...whatever. i'm indifferent. if it
comes to a choice
i have to make, i'll go to the front and not the border.
don't ask me why
cause i don't know. maybe all the tales of the opium dens
in Nam (nah just
kiddin).
yepyep.
-zach
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:46:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: New JK books for Fall
At 08:24 AM
5/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Gerry and
all:
>
>I checked the
copyright law properly this time before posting. Please ignore
>unless you're
really interested as it gets complicated.
>
>>From 1909
onwards, copyright was provided for 28 years from date of
>publication.
At the end of 28 years you could renew for another 47 years,
>making 75 in
all. If you failed to renew, 28 was all you got. HOWEVER, in
>1992 the
renewal aspect was significantly changed, and renewal was granted
>AUTOMATICALLY
to all books published after January 1, 1964. Now nearly all
>the dates you
listed in this post fall just before that date, bt you don't
>list all the
dates, so it's possible some of the works may still be
>protected.
Anything published after 1978 of falls under the new Death+50
>rule (though
it may well become Death+70 in the next few years).
>
>As for your
comment about can you sell books not yet assembled to a
>publisher, of
course that's perfectly possible if both sides are willing to
>take the risk
and there's enough money put up front by the publisher. It's a
>bit like the
infamous 'player to be named later' trade.
>
>Best
>
>Nick W-W
>
>One of the
last things to be published will be the notebooks. if that
includes all or
some is still up in the air. Regards to all, Paul...
>
>>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:46:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Overview, Part 2, Final Statement
To all the
Patient Folks on the Beat-List:
I came on here hoping to initiate an
honest dialogue on the Kerouac
Archive with John
Sampas or one of his official representatives, such as Ann
Charters. What I got instead was Phil Chaput throwing
20 lies a day at me
to answer, to
keep me away from any real discussion of what is being done,
and what should
be done, with the thousands and thousands of papers Kerouac
carefully saved
and filed away all his life.
I assume Mr. Chaput has been put up to
this by Mr. Sampas himself.
Almost every one
of the pieces of "evidence" he's thrown at me were standard
lines used in the
past by Mr. Sampas or his lawyer Mr. Tobia.
I had dealt
with them all
years ago, and now, instead of being able to move forward on
this question, I
was forced to rehash the past for the last two weeks.
I'm quitting this futile treadmill
they've stuck me on. I think
I've exposed
enough of Mr. Chaput's lies to throw doubt on the credibility
of all his future
claims--and I'm sure there are going to be hundreds more
before he's
done. Since the demands on my time right
now are a lot more
intense than the
demands on his, he can afford to continue with this game
indefinitely, and
I cannot.
I should also add that I've just been
asked to write my
autobiography for
Gale Research's literary encyclopedia called CONTEMPORARY
AUTHORS--a 10,000
word piece that will take all of what little free time I
have left these
days. For that reason alone, it will be
tough checking my
Beat-List mail on
a timely basis, and so I would ask those of you with
IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS TO JUST EMAIL ME DIRECTLY at GNicosia@earthlink.net.
The best I can hope to do here is TO
GIVE YOU THE OUTLINES OF WHAT I
AM FIGHTING FOR,
AND WHY I AM FIGHTING SO HARD:
SInce all this began with a few
comments of Mr. Anstee's, let me
return to his
most forceful point: that people should hold back getting
involved, that
people shouldn't take sides, that people should allow the
status quo to
continue.
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS: THERE IS NO
STATUS QUO. MR. SAMPAS IS
CURRENTLY MAKING
MOVE AFTER MOVE, WITH THE INTENTION OF CONTROLLING JACK
KEROUAC
SCHOLARSHIP WELL BEYOND THE TIME OF HIS DEATH.
He is currently
grooming nephew
Jim Sampas to follow in his footsteps.
THERE IS NO STATUS QUO: at present Jan
Kerouac's heir, exhusband
John Lash, having
made a deal with John Sampas, is engaged in a
down-and-dirty
court fight to get me thrown out as Jan Kerouac's literary
executor, even
though she appointed me to do that work in her will. Mr.
Lash is being
abetted (and doubtless encouraged) in this attack by Mr.
Sampas. As evidence, when Tom Staley, Humanities
Research Center Director
at U. of Texas,
Austin, sent an affidavit in my behalf to the probate court
in Albuquerque
(where Lash is fighting me), SAMPAS HIMSELF CALLED THE
UNIVERSITY OF
TEXAS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT STALEY'S INVOLVEMENT.
My legal bills in New Mexico exceed
$60,000. Mr. Lash's bills are
comparable. Before the battle is over, each side will
doubtless have spent
over
$100,000. Why is Mr. Lash spending so
much money to get rid of me as
Jan's literary
executor?--an action that has drawn outcries from the world's
most important
literary organization, PEN. I quote from
the letter of
author Floyd
Salas, President of PEN OAKLAND (PEN USA WEST): "To deny the
clear intention
of Jan Kerouac's statements about her desire to save her
father's literary
estate, and to change the clear instructions of her will,
which names
Gerald Nicosia her literary executor, is to censor the voice of
this fine
American writer, Jan Kerouac, even in her grave."
WHY IS JAN KEROUAC BEING "CENSORED
EVEN IN HER GRAVE"? Because it
is necessary to
do so if John Sampas is to continue his one-man control of
the whole field
of Kerouac scholarship and, I may add, Kerouac sales..
Is this only what Mr. Anstee calls
"paranoia"?
Let me cite some specific examples:
In 1992, Irish writer Elgie Gillespie
wrote a long article on the
strange goings-on
in the Kerouac Estate. It was scheduled
to be published
in THE SAN
FRANCISCO REVIEW OF BOOKS. Someone
tipped off Mr. Sampas before
publication, and
Sampas phoned SFROB publisher Don Paul, threatening a
lawsuit if the
article was published. Don Paul
immediately killed the
article and told
Ms. Gillespie never to publish it anywhere.
When MEMORY BABE was kicked out of
Viking/Penguin (only weeks after
Mr. Sampas had
made his 6-book deal there for the publication of new Kerouac
texts), I took my
biography to the University of California Press, which
immediately
agreed to reprint it. A month later, U
of C Press publisher Jim
Clark got a call
from Mr. Sampas's agent, Jacob Hoye, instructing him that
Mr. Sampas would
take legal action to stop MEMORY BABE from being
reprinted--claiming
I needed to pay permissions fees all over again (not a
normal practice)
and that Mr. Sampas did not intend to resell me those
permissions. Mr. Hoye made it clear to Mr. Clark that Mr.
Sampas did not
want to see
MEMORY BABE back in print.
When I let it be known I was about file
a tort-action suit against
Mr. Sampas for
"interference with contractual relations," I received a call
from Mr. Sampas
himself, explaining to me that he was only doing his best to
protect Jack
Kerouac, since my book was "filled with mistakes."
MISTAKES ACCORDING TO JOHN SAMPAS.
Clark republished MEMORY BABE. No suit was filed. But two years
later I received
a letter from Mr. Sampas's agent Sterling Lord, reviving
essentially the
same charges against MEMORY BABE--only this time saying I
had NEVER paid
for the right to quote from MEXICO CITY BLUES.
I told Mr.
Lord I had paid
those permissions 15 years ago, and he demanded to see
proof. I told him the permissions had been filed
with Grove Press 15 years
ago, and that
Grove had been resold as a company 4 times since then--they no
longer had
records going back that far. Again,
there was no actual suit.
Mr. Sampas has contacted both the
University of Texas and the
University of
California's Bancroft Library, attempting to restrict access
to Kerouac
materials on deposit there (i.e., scholars would need Sampas's
permission just
to look at them). This is the same
tactic Mr. Sampas used
successfully with
my MEMORY BABE archive in Lowell. In
Sampas's letters to
Tom Staley at the
University of Texas, he specifically demanded information
about what
materials Gerald Nicosia had seen.
Staley refused to divulge
private library
records, and BOTH CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS TOLD MR. SAMPAS TO
KEEP HIS HANDS
OUT OF THEIR COLLECTIONS. Would that U
Mass, Lowell, had
done the same.
Mr. Sampas had the "FINAL
SAY" on what Kerouac letters, and what
parts of letters,
Ann Charters was allowed to publish in the SELECTED
LETTERS volume
from Viking/Penguin. This is by her own
admission in her
interview with
Dan Barth, which I excerpted in an earlier post.
There is no proof that Mr. Sampas
controls the Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac! committee,
but the two key members of that committee who gave Brad
Parker* the
hardest time, Paul Marion and Roger Brunelle, are both close
associates of Mr.
Sampas. (In an earlier post, I told how
Brad Parker had
attempted to
stage independent Kerouac events in Lowell, had been opposed by
the Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! committee, and had complained to the National
Park Service
about their interference.)
Mr. Sampas and his nephew Jim were
honored guests at the New York
University
Kerouac Conference in 1995. They sat
behind the same desk with
conference
organizer Helen Kelly. Ms. Kelly
repeatedly refused to invite
Jan and me to
participate in that conference--though both of us had spoken
for years with a
unique voice about Jack Kerouac. Instead,
we were replaced
with the likes of
Andy Clausen, a hod-carrier poet from Oakland (any of you
ever heard of Mr.
Clausen as an expert on Jack Kerouac?).
When Jan Kerouac
and I showed up
at the conference anyway, and paid $120 apiece to get in, we
were almost
immediately dragged out by police.
Later, one of the conference
organizers told
me confidentially: "You know, we had to please Mr. Sampas,
or he wouldn't
have given us permission to use Kerouac materials here. We
couldn't have put
on this conference without his cooperation."
Recently, Mr. Sampas has hassled Steven
Turner in England about both
the content and
the format of his book, ANGELHEADED HIPSTER.
There were
complaints to
Turner from David Stanford, Sampas's editor at Viking, that
material about
Jack's alcoholism and bisexuality should be removed from the
book. Sampas even objected to the use of a photo on
the back jacket showing
JACK HOLDING A
TEACUP, because, according to Turner, MR. SAMPAS FELT IT
SHOWED KEROUAC AS
A DRINKER! According to Mr. Turner, Mr.
Sampas has also
threatened legal
action against him for what Sampas claims was his illegal
use of certain
Kerouac materials.
When biographer Ellis Amburn sought
John Sampas's help, he was given
a list of people
NOT TO SPEAK TO. Brad Parker, my friend,
was on the TABOO
LIST. Mr. Amburn never contacted me either,
incidentally, though Kerouac
scholars contact
me on a weekly (sometimes daily) basis.
FINALLY, NOT ONE KEROUAC SCHOLAR IN THE
WORLD HAS HAD FREE ACCESS TO
THE ENTIRE JACK
KEROUAC ARCHIVE, AND THE VERY FEW WHO HAVE SEEN EVEN
SIGNIFICANT
PIECES OF IT HAVE BEEN HAND-PICKED BY MR. SAMPAS. (Contrast
this with Allen
Ginsberg, for example, who allowed any serious scholar
complete access
to his own archive, and did not demand proof of political
correctness
first.)
NONE of the above activities by Mr.
Sampas is ILLEGAL. But they
demonstrate an
overweening effort to control Kerouac scholarship by an
individual who is
not a scholar in any sense. They smack
of censorship, and
they are hugely
detrimental to the free flow and free development of ideas
about Jack
Kerouac.
Mr. Anstee asserts that in opposing
this control, I simply want to
control Kerouac
scholarship myself. I ask Mr. Anstee to
produce HIS
EVIDENCE OF THIS,
comparable to the list I have just produced.
I have here produced plenty of evidence
(and there is more I have
not mentioned) of
Mr. Sampas's ongoing control.
A great American writer deserves better
than this.
What can YOU DO ABOUT IT? YOU CAN RAISE YOUR VOICES ABOUT IT, AND
KEEP RAISING YOUR
VOICES, and refuse to be silenced by Mr. Anstee's
dishonest call
for a return to the status quo. WHAT
status quo, Mr. Anstee?
The ground is
being swept out from under my feet, and the feet of every
sincere Kerouac
scholar, even as we speak. ALL OF YOU ON
THE BEAT-LIST, AND
YOUR FRIENDS, CAN
LET MR. SAMPAS KNOW THAT THIS KIND OF HEAVY-HANDED CONTROL
IS NO LONGER
ACCEPTABLE.
Finally, let me dispel once for all
this smokescreen Mr. Chaput has
put out that the
Jack Kerouac Archive is already in the New York Public Library:
Jack Kerouac saved all his childhood
and teenage writings, many of
them in the form
of self-published comic books and newspapers.
He also
saved early
unpublished "juvenile" novels, such as THE SEA IS MY BROTHER and
AND THE HIPPOS
WERE BOILED IN THEIR TANKS! The New York
Public Library has
NONE OF THE
YOUTHFUL, PRE-PUBLICATION WRITINGS OF JACK KEROUAC.
Jack Kerouac typed almost all his most
important books (with the
exceptions of DR.
SAX, VISIONS OF GERARD and VISIONS OF CODY) on long
scrolls of
paper. ON THE ROAD was typed on 20-foot
strips of Japanese art
paper taped end
to end; the others were typed on teletype rolls.
THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY DOES NOT
OWN A SINGLE ONE OF THESE
SCROLLS. NOR DOES IT OWN ANY OF THE RETYPED VERSIONS
OF THESE BOOKS.
VISIONS OF GERARD, VISIONS OF CODY, and
DR. SAX, undoubtedly three
of Kerouac's
greatest books, were written mostly in pencil.
THE NEW YORK
PUBLIC LIBRARY
DOES NOT OWN ANY OF THE DRAFTS OF THOSE BOOKS EITHER.
Kerouac carefully filed all of his
correspondence (including drafts
of his own
letters) since the early 1940's--three decades of correspondence.
WHAT THE NEW YORK
PUBLIC LIBRARY HAS OF THIS IS A FEW DOZEN XEROXED KEROUAC
LETTERS AND A FEW
DOZEN ORIGINAL KEROUAC LETTERS TO MEMBERS OF THE SAMPAS
FAMILY.
Jack Kerouac kept an extensive file of
personal photographs of his
family and his
friends. THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY HAS
NONE OF THESE PHOTOS.
Jack Kerouac made 100's of private
tapes of himself and his friends
reading and
singing. NONE OF THESE TAPES IS IN THE
NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY.
Jack Kerouac had a personal library of
hundreds of books, many of
them with
marginal annotations that he made in them while reading. THE NEW
YORK PUBLIC
LIBRARY HAS NONE OF KEROUAC'S BOOKS.
How is it, then, that the New York
Public Library already houses the
Jack Kerouac
Archive?
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.
In friendship to all of you, especially
the guy in Fort Wayne who
offered to buy me
a cold beer, I remain (as my Vietnam vet buddies say)
Yours for the duration, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:00:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Anybody know Andrew Burnett?
Is anybody here
in touch with a Beat aficianado named
Andrew
Burnett? Over a year ago he wrote up a
virtual
tour of Neal
Cassady-era Denver for me, which I put
up on my pages at
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Denver/Denver.html --
this week, to my
great surprise, it got a very nice write-up
in the New Yorker
(!) in the section where they review web
sites. Andrew would be thrilled -- but I don't have
a current
email or
snail-mail address for him!
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:05:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Paul Blake, Jr.
At 11:20 AM
5/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
> Mr. Nicosia:
>
> Couldn't Mr. Blake pick up a few bucks for
himself by writing a book
> about his relationship with his uncle
Jack?
>
>
> Ron Rodgers
>
Dear Ron: May 13, 1997
Paul is a great storyteller like all
the Kerouac's, and I recently
spent a whole day
out in Sacramento with him, listening to him tell Kerouac
family stories to
the BBC film crew. (I put some of them
on audio tape
myself.) The trouble is, he's not a professional
writer; and he's also
desperately
trying to take care of his family of wife and 4 kids. He didn't
get to park his
trailer on the neighbor's land for free.
There are actually
a couple of empty
houses on the land that he has to repair, fences to keep
up, and general
caretaker duties he has to do to earn the right to keep his
family there
rent-free.
Certainly Paul has enough material for
a book, but he would need a
good writer or
editor to work with him. If you've
followed my recent posts,
you know I have
more than enough family duties (sick mother, 2 year old
daughter) and
work duties (Vietnam book, 2 Kerouac estate lawsuits,
autobiography to
write for CONTEMPORARY AUTHORS) to use up the 24 hours in a
day. There's no way I could find time to go out to
Sacramento and work with
him on that book.
It would also have to be somebody he
could trust, because many of
his revelations
will be told in court, if Jan Kerouac's lawsuit ever goes to
trial in St.
Petersburg.
I think we all should help him get back
on his feet, however, and
I'll suggest
something on the Beat-List later today.
Thanks for your concern.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:45:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: the mysterious Corso
At 01:00 PM
5/13/97 +0300, you wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>I am new here
and have been following the interesting discussions
>on this list
concerning the Beats for a while now.
But whatever happened
>to
Corso?! I am currently working on a
paper on Corso's poetry, and since
>I know that
there are many 'experts' here, I would like to ask you a
>question
concerning his poetry. In the poem
called "Clown" he has the
>following
line:
>
>"And for
God I am ready with a mouthful of penguins."
>
>Does anyone
know or have any idea as to the meaning of the word
>"penguins"? I know that he uses the same expression in at
least a
>couple of
other poems as well, so I'm guessing that it's more than just a
>whimsical
surrealistic image. Perhaps drug
lingo? Also, if anyone knows
>any academic
work that has previously been done on Corso, I'm all ears.
>
>Ilkka
>
Dear IIkka, May 13, 1997
I don't think I'm telling tales out of
school that Gregory (whom I
like to think of
as a good friend) has had substance abuse problems for a
long time, both
with heroin and alcohol. He was (and may
still be) in a
methadone
program. He has many regrets about
having wasted portions of his
life and talent,
and especially about "not being there for his kids" more.
He is on the
surface a thorny, sarcastic, distrustful sort of guy; but deep
down he cares
about a lot of things, including making this world a better
place, and
certainly about "keeping poetry pure," as he's said to me more
than once.
There was a woman running around a
couple of years ago doing
interviews for a
biography of Corso, but I never heard any more from her (I
can't even
remember her name!) and I never heard any more about her book either.
Gregory is far more a surrealist than a
symbolist, so you can't
expect every
image in his poem to correlate to some other thing or concept.
"Fried
shoes"--another of his great lines--doesn't represent anything but
the mind having
fun with itself. "A mouthful
of penguins"--in my view--is
just another
attempt to jar you out of your mundane mindset, make you see
the world
differently--which is traditionally the great mission of poetry,
which the
surrealists just updated a little. As
far as the image recurring
in a few places,
well, Gregory often enjoys quoting himself and will play
with favorite
images like a kid looking at different facets of a favorite
marble.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:56:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: New JK books for Fall
.... in
>1992 the
renewal aspect was significantly changed, and renewal was granted
>AUTOMATICALLY
to all books published after January 1, 1964. Now nearly all
>the dates you
listed in this post fall just before that date,
>Best
>
>Nick W-W
>
Dear Nick, May 13, 1997
The only one of the books I listed that
was published after Jan. 1,
1964 was the
second half of OLD ANGEL MIDNIGHT, but it was published not as
a book but as
part of a magazine, EVERGREEN REVIEW.
Does that still make it
automatically
renewed? If so, it means that only half
of OLD ANGEL MIDNIGHT
is in public
domain.
Sorry if I misled anyone. It was unintentional. As you say,
copyright law is
complicated--it's no wonder lawyers have to specialize in
it to be any
good.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 15:00:45 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: SoRRY
(Bill Gargan)
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 12 May 1997 22:34:28 -0500
from
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Matthew, just
resubscribe from your new address. I
deleted you.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:38:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Howl to the bard/exploding text
report
=20
>i think you
should consider posting the Howl to the Bard narrative on
>the
Listserv. i imagine some people would
enjoy it. it certainly would
>provide a
change of pace from the Mother-of-All-Estate-Squabbles ....
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
Here ya go kids,
lost it once on the =91puter thang.
Swallowed the danged
thing up and
wouldn=92t give it back. Ah well. Anyway, forgive any errors,
mistakes in
reference, it is almost 4 a.m. here on the not so sunny
westcoast at
present and I am left handed. Thanks
again for playing with
me on Allen=92s
behalf. It was a rare pleasure. Until we meet to sing and
dance, yours,
s.a.
Howl To The Bard
Allen Ginsberg
Tribute at Beyond Baroque
May 10, 1997
Venice, Ca.
I was late
getting started as I had been going on in a stone rant earlier on
with neighborhood
pal about poetry and how not to give oneself credit for
reinventing the
wheel as it just is so roll with it. Was
there to cop a
bone to carry to
the reading with me as not to arrive empty headed out of
hand alas. Much traffic on the 10 West backed up in
looksee museum of
common rubberneck
activity due to multiple late in the day stress breakdown
party up get down
out of control shutdown late in the day early in the
evening beautiful
Saturday pile ups Santa Monica freeway eastbound. Wow!
Put marbles in
mouth and teach me to talk. So anyway,
I=92m doing my best=
to
get there
carrying a head full of words and a heart full of Allen. When I
finally pulled up
to the event, parking was very tough leading me to believe
that this was
going to be a full blown shindig indeed.
Finally squeezed
into a tiny space
with my little Korean limo, grabbed copies of exploding
text and headed
towards the light of Baroque.
30 or so were
gathered on the lawn outside around a speaker monitor
listening to the
goings on as I threaded thru the crowd
of good folk
passing out the
exploding text that many thought were programs and I say
sure why not and
keep moving weaving bobbing boxing my way thru making my
way inside
falling in deeply the tea party full steam.
More folks are
standing in the
lobby as there was no room inside the squeezing room only
main event. The room generally only holds a max of about
100 or so and at
least 250 plus
were assembled attentive as the thing was alive with energy,
love and
spirit. I came in on the Venice Beat
segment of the show as John
Thomas was at the
business of talking about Allen and Neal and about this
and that and
working the crowd with much grace and appreciated wit and
somehow ended up
in the bathroom sitting on the toilet or something when
Fred the director
came over and grabbed me to take me to a seat next to
FranCeye Dean
Smith former old lady of Bukowski mother of Marina
affectionately
known in Buk lit as "old snaggle tooth". A truly fine and
sweet woman. I felt like I was there to see the man Frank
Sinatra at
Madison Square
Garden the way the room held itself.
There was some recorded
stuff of Ginsberg
and then next in the music WAS FRANK, Frank T. Rios old
time Venice
beatster and east coast wise guy who talked disembodiment of
poets poetry and
disembodied holy past in drugs and words and deed with
Corso the two
somehow simpatico lit brothers of street smart scene and
hipster beat
thing of period past and how he woke up the morning after Allen
had passed and
said to himself that he like every other dumb fuck was
writing A
GINSBERG POEM and this made him self conscious and naked in
thought so he
called Black Ace publisher poet writer man Tony Scibella cross
town old pal
still another component of Venice Beat old time wordsmith rat
pack and asked if
he was doing the same like writing a poem for and about
Ginsberg and he
says I don=92t write poems on dead body and this was=
something
for Frank to work
with. So Frank talked a bit more and
read holy inspired
poem for Ginsberg
and then when finished burned it and placed in sacred
silver salad bowl
shrine sitting on the sidelines. He took
us there
peaceful like and
we felt the grace and beauty and love.
To complete the
Venice segment is
Philomene Long raven haired beat angel
wife of John
Thomas and
creator director of fantastic film "Venice Beats: An Existential
Comedy"
which I highly recommend and she reads words for Allen in a never
before voice
which seemed to come from the other side that shot thru the
crowd and filled
our centers with sweet cream of vision.
We were
there, flying. Click your heels three times there is no
place like
home. The Wichita Vortex is intoned. There are many Red Wheelbarrows as
well. Whitman and Blake left their footprints on
the night and then left
the building
as cosmic croon doggies of sing me to
sleep inside the common
dream of human
desire. =20
There goes
Jupiter, there goes Mars and here comes Man =91O War! =20
Heard later that
I had missed Keith Antar Mason of Hitite
Empire whom
everyone said was
great and he is.
More folks jumped
up and spoke and read.
Black Sparrow
high priestess of word Wanda Coleman is in the house following
jazzpoet husband
Austin Strauss. She goes on in a searing
rant and roll of
anger, hatred and
brokenhearted ire and the crowd is silent as if standing
in the middle of
the road in shocking glare of headlights or watching an
oncoming train
with your foot caught in the switching track.
She finishes
her prepared work
for the eve and then breaks it all down in a slow
deliberate rap
about how when she came into this room pissed but that the
spirit of the
room reached out to her as Allen Ginsberg coming from the back
of the room arms
open for her and he comes toward and she is still fucking
pissed but Allen
wraps her in arms of true devotion and she is letting go
her anger now
being consumed by Allen=92s embrace and she slowly and more
quietly dissolves
into peace and now descends into silent love set free on
everyone there.
David Ulin talks
about how some critic said that Allen was the poet most
willing to be
mediocre and David says that this is a high compliment and I
agree that he,
Allen, was human and willing to fail and if you can=92t fail
then what have
you got? Shit sandwich disguised as
wisdom.=20
Mike Lally talked
about his actor ego and such and finally walked into short
world of how to
be humble and began to say that Allen always said he was
reminiscent of
Neal C. due to energy and attitude and Lally shot off, "Hey,
fuck you man,
I=92m from New Jersey, I=92m Kerouac, not Cassady!" Large=
guilty
laughter at
common attitude and not so secret shared dreams unfulfilled and
in the back of
the room Neal tossed his hammer and talked endlessly about
Dr. Feelgood and
his =9239 Chevy with no brakes coming down the hill while
tripping on gassy
nebula undiscovered. Lally went on some
more and finally
came to the point
where after years of association with the man due to much
experience of
living he had calmed down and come full circle to where
Ginsberg began to
defer to Michael. He ended up talking
about a fete or
something of
Allen where folks went on and on about Allen this and that
until finally
Allen gets up and basically calls it all fake in amazing
poetic language
even accusing the gold as being "fake".
More audio of
Allen. Pull My Daisy, the incredible
eulogy to Neal about
nipples,
bicep=92d arm and flesh which I was glad to hear as it is one of my
all time faves.
More people
read. Speak.
Michael C. Ford,
one of the only humans I could never tire of hearing speak
because of his
glib gravely jazzy jazz speak like from the brass bell of
trumpet he talks
about old days late 60=92s flash to Kenneth Rexroth via
Kenneth Patchen,
someone=92s got a gig at San Diego State and Rexroth having
some trouble with
the deal in terms of respect and so there are things to be
done to restore
honor, respect. The students will mount
an event maybe.
Rexroth says to
Ford come to my place tonight for dinner got a surprise for
ya. Ford shows up
and guess who=92s coming to dinner?
Ginsberg,=
Ferlinghetti
and him. In retro he says that of course he didn=92t
know what he had or=
who
was really with
and as the eve goes on Allen isn=92t looking good or=
something
and someone maybe
Michael C. as youth says what=92s the deal and Ginsberg=92=
s
response is,
"New York!" That all his woes
are New York, that whatever it
is is New
York. The weather? New York!
The economy? New York! New York,
New York, New
York! Bad hair day? Fucking A!
New York. . . " and the
event becomes New
York and there is the feel of Times Square Huncke digging
all beatific
winking at the parade.
This night
strange for me. So much death in recent
time. Huncke gone. Jan
K. dead of Jack
attack at young age just like father before her. Clellon
Holmes and first
beat Go!. . . gone. L.A. bigbeat meat
poet Bukowksi
slipped away to
make words for father in possible heaven.
Local
friends/poetmakers
gone: J.W. McCullough from Philly/Denver scene found dead
in flophouse digs
of broken heart and mind said wandering
funkytown center
of L.A. in sad
drag looking for a fix for breaking heart.
Allen J. Friedman
who whispered
poem to me in deathbed meditation and left with his boots on
swinging to other
side. Gone. Bob Flanagan Supermasochist leader of poetry
at Beyond Baroque
who transcended pain of living thru pleasure of pain in
life. Gone.
Kurt Cobain who mistook the hole in his stomach for the tears
in his head, also
gone & Jerry Garcia who took the show with him. . . Gone.
And in
mid-December my mother gone from overload of sad life liver shutdown
I missed her by
minutes in life now she gone and this the day before
Mother=92s Day
and I call you Mother from the pulpit of my life, my living
memorial to you I
am. Now they are all here with me,
now. With the folks
from the Beat
List. The electric voice and spirit all
here now. I have
fasted for this,
waited for this, meditated and come here for this. . . soon
these voices will
rise up with me and sing!
The night rolls
on. 2, 2 =BD hours.=20
1st break.
I am in the lobby
sitting on the stairs taking my head for a walk when
somebody taps me
on the shoulders and sez, "Did you hear?
Corso is dead!
Died two days ago
standing in front of a train!"
"What? Don=92t fuck with
me, I=92m not up
for it." "No, I just heard.
Corso=92s dead!" She sees=
that I
am truly shaken
because somewhere in the back of my skull there lurks this
same info like
the long shadow of a recent ghost some kinda fucking
doppleganger and
so she leaves me dressed in the not so pretty news as I
despair on the
stair. I search the crowd for
verification/denial and all I
get is both. It is maddening; mad, not even funny rumor of
death inside of
death and it is
racing towards my stomach and vaulting towards my head past
my heart. Happy entrails to you, until we meet again. .
. The break is
over. Liza Richardson of radio scene steps up to
the stage takes the
microphone and
declares Corso gone as well. Poet patron
sacred soul Ron
Maxson who is
related to Corso by marriage stands up in the audience to
debate/deny her
story. It is too much. I don=92t think I can deal. I walk
outside to put
some air back into my sails. Later Ron tells
me that he had
heard the same
rumors the past few days and in prep for this event called
back east to find
out truth so to bring it with him here just in case and as
it happened,
thank whatever fucking gods for that! He
did.
Like Mark
Twain: "The rumors of my death have
been greatly exaggerated."
While outside
they play a recording of Allen. I used
to believe that really
all that Allen
wanted to be was a rock star. After
hearing this recording I
was convinced
that he was a rock star. I don=92t know
what the hell it was,
but it rocked,
and rocked and rocked! Don=92t let
anyone tell you any
different, Allen
Ginserg was a rock star baby!
Now a woman gets
up to speak of her first meeting with AG like many have and
will before the
night=92s over. She talks about how she
gave him a poem she
wrote and asked
his opinion and he says it has womans blood in it and take
it to Waldman as
she is better equipped to deal with such and she says hey
if it had cock in
it would you dig it then? And Ginsberg sez yeah. She goes
on to read her
piece which blooms like surreal picnic in glorious garden of
everything still
possible. She knew him many years
and the words ring with
long and short
deep feel of it. She gives us her
special place in the sun
and we are warmed
with her safe fire of passion for poet and deeds done.
Then, an assassin
takes the mike. She is dressed in
sheep=92s clothing of
Naropa. She is a Greek bearing gifts of Allen this
and Allen that. Her
assault is
relentless. She cannot run out of
ammunition. She drops bombs,
one after the
other. She burns bridges. She is loaded
with endless hip and
cool. She rapes our tiny village of good
times. She chokes the audience
like a weak
kitten slam dunking our sorry asses into her hellish toilet of
long winded self
reflection as she goes on and on and on. . . 5, 10, 15, 20
minutes of
nothing and nowhere and somehow off into
the realm of NAMBLA
even and Allen
this and that rat a tat tat tat tat and the crowd starts to
leave first one,
then two, then they start for the door in small groups and
as they exit they
ponder out loud like what in the fuck is she going on for
and why is she
doing this to us? What the hell did we
do to her to deserve
this? She has committed the numero uno sin of all
sins as a
performer/speaker
or anything pretending to entertain or inform:
SHE IS
ENDLESSLY
BORING!!!!! She murders any hope that
she will soon be
finished. To be intentionally boring can be and is an
art, but to bore
unintentionally
should be punishable by immediate revocation of poetic
license never to
be returned. To the credit of those of
us left in
attendance, as
much as she uses the good name of Allen Ginsberg, we know she
only speaks of
herself and is certainly not paying any sort of tribute to
the man. Is she innocent? Is she guilty?
Finally she is
finished. Stick a fucking fork in her
and turn her sorry ass
over.
Forgive me father
Ginsberg.
But wait! Could it be?
Just when you thought it was safe to venture back
into tributeville
up to the mike comes her accomplice, because in Hollywood,
everything
deserves a lousy sequel. =20
So now this
second hitman for the art mob, this wordy sonofabitch goes on
and on and on. He
is reading an essay. Lucky him. Not so lucky us. Now
the people are
really filing out. They are fanning
themselves with doubt
and worry afraid
for their own tender hides as they leave their wounded
comrades bruised
and bleeding at yet the tonsils of this second assassin.
The crowd, once
hopeful and 250 or 300 strong, within the span of 45 minutes
and two speakers,
have been roasted down to about 100 of the truly strong of
spirit =91cause
they know that there is magic yet to live.
Poetry can be=
ugly
and nasty, a vile
and evil fucker that can kill your spouse and steal your
mind, but the
real spirit of poets and poetry will always prevail and before
ya know it, in
comes Williams Wheelbarrow and there is Whitman=92s Brooklyn
Bridge which
sings electric and a gentle rain begins to fall to douse the
tall flames lit
by the two strangely innocent killers and there is Allen
Ginsberg with his
arms once again around the night whispering in our ear:
"Are you my
angel?" And he kisses the ignorant
heads of the two bombers and
acquits them of
any wrong doing, pats them on their stupid heads and sends
them on their way
as he knows they will have places to go now that they have
finished with
their Wagnerian warblings in the key of nothing flat and
nowhere sharp.
The 2nd break.
More folks leave
satisfied that there is nothing any longer worth staying
for. The assassins satisfied that they have done
their job leave as well
and Gregory Corso
is still alive. =20
The room relaxes.
I tune up with
just a little more weed. Got to
relax. Give it up.
The break is
over.
It is sad how
people never learn that the real music often blows after the
doors shut and
the saxophone man sits down to play his music to the angels
like a river to
the sea where we all float in ecstasy.
School=92s out and
school=92s in let
the fat rhythm begin.
Round 3.
FranCeye gets up
and lights the event with her love letter to Allen. She
says that once
she said to Allen, "Thank you."
And he said, "You=92re
welcome." And this was all that mattered. That you=92re welcome was some
sort of mantra, a
chant that said it all and as she finished she left
quietly with,
"Thank you Allen. You=92re
welcome." And believe me, we were
cleansed and the
room was free.
Earlier in the night
someone had read Ginsberg=92s America poem and Laurel=
Ann
Bogen Detective
Supremo freaked and almost left because that was what she
was going to
read. Fred and I, mostly Fred, got down
on our knees in mock
worship to keep
her there and stay she did. We were
lucky. A self
confessed split
personality type, she was fueled with the anger of her
displacement and
was a survivor of the holocaust of earlier boring rants by
our twin
killers. She was prime. With arched eyebrow and magic manic grin,
she read that
damned thing the way it should always be read:
Mad baby!
Mad! She roared and the music of AG=92s language
which broke new land speed
records and
jailhouse rocks as flowers exploded in a frenzied quilt of color
at ground
zero.=20
Then fellow Carma
Bum Doug Knott read. Giggling goddess of
spoken and
written word
Ellyn Maybe did her thing and sang White Shroud. The Dharma
Lion stretched
his legs across the room and relaxed in the empty seats. We
were about 3 =BD
hours into it now and there were only about
50 devoted=
ones
left.
Exene Cervenkova
asked me during the break if I minded going after her since
she was being
recorded for some Internet thing and I
pulled out my stuff
and said well I
created mine on the Internet so maybe it was relevant but it
didn=92t really
matter to me and she said well I was told that you had been
waiting a lot
longer than me and I said do whatever you like Exene it will
be fine that
whatever she did would be the right thing and she walked away
mumbling
something like I=92m sure it will.
My name was
called as I was sitting outside talking with John Thomas and
Laurel Ann. I shot up and walked in. Not so stoned but very high. "I come
to you as the
Reverend representative of The Dynasty of Divine Love and
Tolerance." I started.
"Bless the sacred holy noble truth.
Welcome to
Temple
Baroque!" A few shouted with
me. My part in the revival had begun.
"Be with me
now!" I intoned, "Be with me.
. . " I hardly knew where I was
anymore. I was coming apart and reassembling myself as
a cubist comedy in
full relief. I was hungry and scared and somehow sacred
in the moment. I
announced that I
was sick of writing eulogies for dead poets and that I
really wasn=92t
up to it, so being on this beat list thing where we all=
talked
about Beats and
about who was Beat what was Beat, beat, beat, beet and then
we eat it and
Rinaldo walked in with Italy under his arm and took an empty
seat. I went on about how I took Ginsberg=92s piece "On Burroughs
Work"
presented it to
the list and 7 or 8 of us took turns altering it and blah,
blah, blah. . . .
I pronounced and mispronounced the authors names. I took
a breath, looked
at the paper as if it were something and I spoke, " On The
Work of
Burroughs. . . the method must be purest meat of sharktalk spoor. .
." there was an energy, there was a
movement. My voice didn=92t seem to be
my own, my body
light and filled with all the thoughts and visions that had
come before. I couldn=92t believe how easy it was to
sing. I was hitting
fastballs that
were creeping past the plate from over the Atlantic as I
placed them one
after the other in the outfield and over the fence. Some
danced on the
foul line safe and I was gone and everyone was there and we
were dancing the
words. I just kept speaking one word
after the other not
really knowing
what was coming next. I reached the part
of "skin holy,
baseball holy,
time holy. . ." and I felt my center shoot up into my throat
as the words
became large and wet with the tears struggling to liberate
themselves from
my throat. Allen wrapped his arms around
me and I pulled
the humans in and
together we shouted, "HOLY!
HOLY! HOLY!" I slipped the
page behind the
others and suddenly I saw the words and knew I dropped a
page but being
cut and paste I shouted "GODDAMMIT!!
WHICH WAY DOES YOUR
BEARD POINT
TONIGHT ALLEN? POETS HOLY:" Then
skipped back and picked it up
previous, jumping back on the bus roaring thru
tributetown with everyone
once again safely
on board. We sang and drank skin holy,
Canada holy, U.K.
holy, Kansas
vortex and California holy, holy, holy, beat list members holy!
It is true, it
was true; you could have heard the old proverbial pin drop in
timezone Saturday
night. I finished quietly firmly and
direct, ". . . I
hear what you say
and I now write to the world to do it:
rise up! Rise up!
And claim this
world!. . . " and the few left got it, I got it, they got, we
all got it. Some shouted with me at the end,
"Holy! Holy! Holy!" Then
once again,
quietly I stated, "Don=92t hide the madness." as I ripped up=
the
paper with the
words on it and dropped into Frank Rios=92 sacred silver=
salad
bowl and left the
room. Lewis MacAdams was waiting to come
on and turned to
me and said,
"Nice words." Later I realized
that I had forgotten the last
line, "A
word to the wise guy." But I
hadn=92t been myself really, I had=
been
taken over and
highjacked by the vision and energy of all of those that came
to the party with
me. I was pissed but cut and paste. . .
I did it Sunday,
Mother=92s Day in
memory of my gone Mother at weekly poetry hullabaloo up=
the
street at The
Onyx Caf=E9 and it sang again and vibrated in all the right
places once
again! Holy! Fucking Holy!
It lived. It lives.
But hey, the
night=92s not over, no indeedy. =20
Next was Exene
Cervenkova who got up and said that Allen Ginsberg was the
greatest poet of
the 20th Century and she was glad he was gay.
She talked
about back in the
heyday of quintessential punk rock days
of X with John
Doe while living
on Ave. 42 in Mt. Washington I believe it was that she
received a fax
one day from AG and she didn=92t know how he got their number
but nonetheless,
there was this fax and seems that Allen wanted her and John
to put it to
music and maybe use it on an album or something. Well, I guess
that never
happened, in fact, Exene says she lost the thing and hopes to
someday find it
again. She and Ginsberg became
buds. She talked about how
he deferred to
her setting up his stage for his readings and asking if
everything was
all right and then showing her poetry of his and asking if
that was all
right and so on. Exene saying that the
man was just being
humble in her
opinion as he had done this thousands of times and who was
she? She closed with words for Allen and then got
off.
Lewis MacAdams
who wrote an incredible sendoff for Allen in The L.A. Weekly,
whose brilliant
JK/Beat documentary will live forever, dressed in coat and
tie and fine brim
looking a bit like a song and dance man straight out of
maybe St. Louis,
came in somewhere about this time and told a story about
how Ginsberg
wanted to make it with him and his old lady at this particular
time past maybe
when he first met the big man can=92t recall the whole=
evening
is of course
filtered thru experience and light haze of medicinal marijuana
which tugs at the
old memory bone from time to time ya know, so anyway Lewis
is talking here
and he says well hey Allen I=92m not into this scene so=
Lewis,
he goes and
crawls into his sleeping bag while Allen and his woman I guess
are wrestling,
going at it, Lewis watching and listening, panting and
groaning or what
have you, doing it until finally I guess Allen reaches over
with one finger
and touches Lewis gently on the forehead and Lewis spurts
immediately. Yowsa!
Guess he=92s not into those scenes, huh?
Lewis went
and talked some
more and read leaving us well and happy.
Then something
wonderful happened.
Exene had brought
along Ronnie Blakely who sang in famous Altman flick
"Nashville". She told us of her love for Allen and how
when once time past
Allen who so
wanted to be with Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Review, that
after he and
Orlovsky, their segment of the show had been cut, agreed to
stick with the
show by shuttling luggage to and from the tour buses. It was
heartbreaking and
enlightening to hear her tell it. I have
rarely seen a
person speak with
such real love and reverence. She said
that they never
knew where they
were going because for some reason it was all a secret, but
that she would
stick her luggage out in the hallway late at night and early
in the morning,
Allen and Peter would come by scooping up the luggage to be
placed on board
the bus and on to destination unknown cities.
She spoke
lovingly of
relationship of many years and then asked if she could speak or
sing a song she
had written for him. The group asked her
to sing. I cannot
tell you how
lucky we were to be there. She was our
angel, the angel Allen
spoke of. Her voice was honey, she held Allen in her
music quenched his
thirst and
quelled his fears. She held our hearts
captive with her song and
healed the
wounded night. It rained love. This was the moment of pure
light that the
sax man dreamed as he played his music to the stars. Hale
Bopp. She sang it for us all.
The night
certainly could have ended there. But
there was an open now.
First one guy
went on and on with his hit on America poem called America
revisited. Ouch.
He started reading when I realized that he had a stack of
paper. Ah well, what the fuck ya know. In the now kind and gentle spirit
of it all, the
last dozen or so left, we listened. Then
Nate (no last name)
got up and jammed
on guitar punk like and screamed and sang a fantastic rant
for Allen. Another home run. Then lastly a guy who got up and said he was
a film director
who had desperately been trying to do a thing on the beats
and said he
wouldn=92t go on too long. . . guess what?
He did.
>From begin to
end: just about 4 =BD hours.=20
The six of us
left all went out to drink and eat.
Holy, holy, holy.
. .love holy! Allen Ginsberg. . . holy.
End of story.
xxxooo
S.A. Griffin
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 15:51:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To: <v03007802af9df8229a77@[206.190.9.125]>
On Tue, 13 May
1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
> here i the
90s, what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay
> lib?
abortion? aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
> cults:
Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
> Trade
Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
> a march
against that.
no protests, no
movements -- the issue is communication. the word of the 90s
is feedback.
> So i have a
lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
> those
involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
> to drive my
generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
> the next
$%&^# Batman movie.
Not _everyone_ in
the 60s was a hippie protester. Don't you think there are
a lot of people
driven into action right now? Maybe not picketing, no, but
there are many
more important things to be doing right now.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:51:08 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!
AC46 wrote:
>
> I can't
believe that I'm reading things about a Prankster reunion
Well, of course,
you don't have to, but then what did you expect on a
list principally
devoted to old or dead writer?
I was given
tickets to go see Dylan. Since that day I cannot listen
> to Dylan
without partly seeing the old, haggard, out of tune man that I
> saw at the
concert.
But if you had
gone earlier he would have been young, haggard and out of
tune--still great
but I for one
> would rather
see an unknown group of 20 yr olds who were making valid
> nineties
statements, than make a pilgrimage to see the Pranksters who
> belonged to
a very specific and real "moment" in American history.
No one's asking
you not to check out the 20yr olds. Is
this mutually
exclusive. Did
Kesey need to get permission from another generational
zip code before
making this trip, and if so who elected you? If you
aren't
interested, don't bother with it. I assume you and Zach are the
lucky ones that
will never grow old, never bore the kids with stories of
your glory days,
you're going to keep that edge on your blade all the
way through. Good luck.
You should tack this post up on your wall
and read it every
decade or so--just to keep you honest.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:00:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!
In-Reply-To: <AD25FD42EC@banana.le.ac.uk>
Hello,
It seems to from
this post that the member AC46 is taking an "Age-ist"
view, though i
dont wanna sound like some politically correct person or
anything.
I think if a
bunch of elderly gents wanna act all wild and crazy and how
most people feel
THE YOUNG ARE SPOSED TO ACT, then fuck yeah im all for
it. i mean, what,
are you sposed to shut up when you reach a certain age
and quit racing
around high or not or something?
As far as Dylan
is concerned, most people it seems either like his voice
or not; sure,
he's become a lil' less articulate (!) in singing but
that's certainly
made up for by the feeling i get from his performance;
he should HAVE to
adapt to the prevailing trends anymore than someone
should HAVE to
flee from 'em.
respectfully,
Eric
P.S. regarding
the Pranksters:
Do not go gentle
into that good night
Dose, dose before
they take away your right.
On Tue, 13 May
1997, AC46 wrote:
> I can't
believe that I'm reading things about a Prankster reunion. Why
> can
monumental experiments like that taken by Kesey and the "Neon
>
Revolution" not just be left to history.
> I was
nowhere near to being born in the sixties, but the Beats and
>
"hippies" are my heroes. When I see them revamped and updated it
makes
> me lose some
of the love that I had for them in the first place. A year
> ago I was
given tickets to go see Dylan. Since that day I cannot listen
> to Dylan
without partly seeing the old, haggard, out of tune man that I
> saw at the
concert. That is not to say that I no longer love Dylan's
> work, but I
am just dissapointed by his reluctance to move with the
> times. In
the last few years we have seen Woodstock 2, which in true
> nineties
style went off with a wimper, the return of the beatles, and
> now Kesey
and co. are back, no doubt with Day-Glo paint all over their
> zimmer
frames and taking the bus to the post office every tuesday to
> collect
their pensions.
> I am not
questioning the validity of these aspects of sixties culture, I
> am merely
expressing my dissappointment at the Pranksters for doing it
> all again in
the nineties. Maybe there is not enough in our generation
> which can be
held as representative of the counteculture, but I for one
> would rather
see an unknown group of 20 yr olds who were making valid
> nineties
statements, than make a pilgrimage to see the Pranksters who
> belonged to
a very specific and real "moment" in American history.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:52:09 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Teardrops, photographed by Robert Frank.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.OSF.3.95.970513125048.31530A-100000@camphor>
PRANKSTERS DON'T TEARS FLOWERS
NIGGHTIME
lontano, molti anni sono passati,
noi stiamo diventano cose,
fiori, flowers, le nostre cellule
cerebrali,
our brain cells, diminished,
diminuiscono, praksters are own
flowers,
la finestra di Robert Frank's photo,
guarda,
look at,
grandma's doilies,
blur windows glass,
un'auto aspetta sul courtyard,
boys, go!, it's 15th august,
l'auto corre, the grass on both side of
the highway,
go! Padua, Bologna, Florence, Rome,
Naples,
Siracusa, Francofonte, Taormina, l'Etna
smokin'
in the old times, furious dog chase
barking
under olives
branches
like
thunder,
the ferrari runs as quick as a lightnin'
grandama calls rinaldo, look at the
sirs!,
the top of the Volcano, qualche pietra
raccolta,
Salvatore corre come un pazzo
lungo il side of the
Volcano,
look at in the down there's the snow!,
great! IT'S summer,
noi stiamo diventando cose,
we're turnin' into things,
like grandam doilies
like xeroexes, like photos,
like sound tracks of
Jimmi Hendrix, like
everything,
keep me head
in my hands
fuzzy bats & owles,
near my house,
look at the teardrops,
smell the ancient room,
where black dressed
woman
talked ancient stories
tonight
my grandma
had planted me
as potato in the yard.
yr rinaldo
*the dumb*
*the beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:09:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: the mysterious Corso
In-Reply-To:
<199705131845.LAA28915@italy.it.earthlink.net>
On Tue, 13 May
1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> There was a woman running around a
couple of years ago doing
> interviews
for a biography of Corso, but I never heard any more from her (I
> can't even
remember her name!) and I never heard any more about her book
either.
Yeah, what
happened to her? Anyone know if the book ever came out? I had her
address around
here somewhere, but now I can't find it, and i don't remember
the name.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:30:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To: <v03007800af9ddac8b3e5@[206.190.9.125]>
greeting fellow
travelers,
I'd like to say
first to Zach that your post is very inneresting and
enjoyale reading.
i just want to
address a few points that disturbed me, even if its a bit
off topic on my
part. forgive me.
On Tue, 13 May
1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
> flatness of
salt...yeah long acid roadtrips may have been groundbreaking 30
> years ago,
but i've got friends who do them every year now, for the whole
> summer, and
no they're not following phish or the undead dead. we know what
> DID happen
but it's irrelevant to us because we concentrate on what CAN
> happen. sick
of cultural recycling...Try flying from
Chicago to Prague and
> Prague to
Chicago on ecstasy there's something new...(well, kinda)
Following phish
is no more un-genuine than SPECIFICALLY not following
phish.
the past is not
IRRELEVANT if you want to improve the present or future.
Zach, you wrote
something about -- there's too much going on now to be
dwelling on stuff
rooted in the past -- (excuse the possible
misinterpretation,
but i fucked up this email editing job.)
Anything one does
IS what's happening NOW. This particular Prankster
voyage is new
because it is (or at the time it just occured) was the
present. To say
that an event is somehow not "new" or "current" enough is
meaningless,
assumes there is a definite predictable notion of what MUST
go on at any
given moment in the "current" era.
If they, the
pranksters, want to drive around make appearences like they
did before, why
the hell not? You dont have to avoid something just
because something
similar has occured. And if other people are amused by
it, why should it
bother you?
from,
Eric
P.S. some of the
most genuine and sincere funloving friends of mine say
the've had a
great experience at Furthur Fests. it might be an attempt to
reHash old times
but at the same time creates NEW times whether you did
or did not live
at the time o' the ol' Times. heehee!
> There is too
much new going on to be stuck in the old. like it or not,
> future is
where we're headed. the ideas and concepts laid down by KK and
> crew, AG,
Jk, even my dear WSB need to be taken and listened to and
> reapplied.
very few things are timeless. ideas that affect society hardly
> are, seeing
that society is a fast changing monster.
most ppl living
> creative,
outrageous, disruptive with them, interrupting a flow and putting
> you, maybe
just briefly, into a wild possible future. that's what charms
> me: it's a
possible future, not definite. when
you're doing something
> past-based,
there is only one possible course of action, one that follows
> the path of
those events already taken. altho i admit ther'll probably be
> much
spontinaeity involved with KK and the MPs, but it will be based on a
> same
philosophy. For those who were around back then, it'll be a wonderful
> one, but
based on sentimentality, not new ideas, not any groundbreaking.
> and to say
well it _was_ groundbreaking back in the
day; yeah, so was
> hooking up a
horse to a buggy.
> I admit to a
shortage of things as of late. Raves used to be an outing of
> choice: 100s
or 1000s of ppl in some huge secret location, dancing to
>
future.music, taking care of each other, having surreal, induced
>
conversations. It's a younger crowd now, concerned mainly with the drugs
> and the
clothes, and being 'underground'. there are huge similarities in
> fundamental
philosophies of rave and hippie culture, but the approach is
> very different.
but now, all of it seems corrupted.
> for those of
you wanting to see/feel something new, with similar outlook,
> feeling to
it: 'A Little Furthur' memorial day weekend, and 'Even Furthur'
> july 18-21,
electric campout festivals, location usually an undisclosed
> campgrounds
somewhere in Wisconsin. this event has
been going on for 3 yrs
> now, and
gets better every year. and they even use a picture of the
> Pranksters
bus on the flyer. i get an indescribeable kick going to these
> things, like
the universe just all clicks together for a few days, and
> everyone can
be far from beat for a little while.
> Pranksters?
I'll stay home and read a book.
> Obviously,
i've been meandering here. Apologies, and no offense...
>
> -zach
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:16:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Chaput is Kaput!
Phil,
I knew I'd get
your attention with my clever little rhyme. :^)
Phil, Nicosia has
demolished your credibility regarding the Great Estate
Debate just like
he said he would. Any further protest by
you will only be
seen as whining
and namecalling by the vast majority of the people on this
list. I'd suggest you spare yourself that
embarrassment.
Now I'd like to
suggest we turn our attention to doing something positive
with the
situation. You mentioned before that you
want to help with the
archives. If you are sincere about that offer, I have
some suggestions to
make that I'll
list at the end of this note. Everyone
agrees it would be a
good thing to
maintain the archives. I'd like to
enlist your support in
finding a way to
do that.
You know, Phil, I
believe loyalty among friends is usually a good thing.
Sometimes, though, loyalty can be misplaced
and one friend can wind up
playing the other
friend to his detriment. I've got to
wonder if that is
what John Sampas
has done to you here. You've taken a lot of slings and
arrows for John
and received nothing but humiliation and embarrassment for
your efforts.
You say you're
your "own man", Phil. Then
examine this situation with a
critical eye
without the filter of friendship. Can
you honestly say John
Sampas has served
you well here? You tried defending an
extreme position
with a very weak
argument out of loyalty to a friend. Now
it is time for you
to drop that role
and take some action.
There's an old
saying and our mother's pounded it into all of us... "Actions
Speak Louder Than
Words". John Sampas has been
telling everyone, including
you, he wants to
protect the Kerouac Archives. But what
have his actions
said to everyone?
If a person wants
to protect something they do not sell it off piecemeal to
the highest
bidder! That only insures the collection
gets scattered all over
the world and the
new owners get to make their own individual choices as to
what will happen
to those items. Not much of a strategy
for preservation, do
you think?
You can take an
active part in solving this situation by telling John Sampas
he needs to
negotiate a deal with some University or organization that will
do the work
required to protect the Kerouac Archive forever! If you're
really a fan of
Kerouac, and I believe you are, you should use every
opportunity you
have to help direct John Sampas to do the right thing.
I have other
ideas too.
1). Use your association with Sampas to determine
what it is going to take
for him to
actually sell the archives to one organization.
It appears the $1
million that has
been offered for the entire archive is not enough for John
Sampas. He's been sitting on a gold mine valued at
$10+M and was not about
to let it go for
a cool mil no matter how much noise Gerry Nicosia or Jan
Kerouac made.
2). Call me crazy but I bet there's a way to get
the money John Sampas is
looking for to
buy this collection. There have got to
be many millionares
around the world
who might be willing to contribute in some fashion to get
John Sampas his
asking price. Kerouac influenced a lot
of people, some of
whom influenced a
lot of other people. Bob Dylan, Van Morrison,
Paul Simon,
The Beatles, The
Doors, Johnny Depp and probably may other Hollywood types.
What is that line about "six degrees of
separation"? I bet some of the
people just
mentioned are known personally by some of the people on this
list, or maybe
are a friend of a friend.
Think about
it! A hundred rich people cobble
together $10 million bucks,
there's some big
ceremony held at NYPL or someplace, CNN and C-SPAN cover it
live and all
these people get their name put on a plaque somewhere and John
Sampas gets a big
fat check! Part of the deal is Paul
Blake gets taken care
of in the
royalties or some other way, everybody's legal fees gets paid up in
some fashion and
everybody is happy! No more litigation,
Kerouac's archives
are protected forever
and the Sampas family is wealthy for the rest of their
lives. I've seen stranger things happen!
The point is,
Phil, you and maybe some others are in a unique position to
jumpstart some
sort of negoiated settlement. From what I can see Gerry
Nicosia is not
going to go away and if he wins in Florida Sampas could wind
up with a big
mess.
How about we all
move forward and make something happen instead of calling
each other
names?!?
Whaddya say?
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:30:20 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: the mysterious Corso
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 May 1997 13:00:51 +0300
from <ik56385@UTA.FI>
I think he means
nuns. It's a joke--little surreal short
shot. In
traditional
English literature the penguin is sometimes a symbol for
Christ but I
doubt Corso has this in mind.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:07:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
What troubles me
about these posts is this...why is everyone concerned about
the archives when
no one (by the indication of the NYPL) is utilizing what
is in there
already?
Kerouac's personal effects (books, letters
etc.) as priceless as they
are still belong
to the inheritor. The fact is that Stella was married to
Jack. Though he
may have said he wanted to divorce her he never did. That is
out of our hands.
From what I can see every effort is being made to put out
there what is
publishable. Even if John Sampas had no say about editing
letters, Ann
Charters would still have to make them "selected" letters.As
long as the
recepients and subjects are still living, that is the law.
The other thing that troubles me, though I
have no qualms with Mr.
Nicosia, is his
constant need to bolster his image by revealing his
credentials as a
scholar. Why would he expect to be invited to LCK
activites? Dennis
McNally was never invited to LCK and he holds a Doctorate!
Neither was Tom
Clark! Though neither of their biographies are as "thick" a
book as
Nicosia's, they are every bit as informative. They just didn't put
in as much
sophmoric textual analysis of Jack's works. To be a scholar is to
be modest. One
does not see Harold Bloom asserting his authority nor does
Perry Miller. Not
even Ann Charters! To be specific...well forget it...I am
already setting
myself up for a line of attack but if Gerry is a true
scholar he will
know that I am right. I respect Memory babe for its research
and for Gerry's
hard work in putting it together but it by no means is
definitive. It is
a "critical" biography but it does not mean that the
criticisms are
correct. They are the work of scholarship. Criticisms are
left up to
debate. That is the nature of scholarship. That is why there are
about a dozen
"definitive" biographies of Hemingway. No one has the last
word on a
subject, especially when newer works are constantly being published.
About John Sampas. I don't know what mental
image some of you have of
Mr. Sampas. By
appearance he does not look wealthy. He's not residing in a
mansion. He lives
in a small, unassuming house. His clothes aren't Giorgio
Armani. He has
always been nothing but pleasant to anyone I seen talking
with him. This is
just to say that everything isn't always the way it
appears. This is
not to say that Gerry isn't right by his
actions but there
is only one voice
be spoken out here on this list. We can't speak for Mr.
Sampas. And I
assure you that Phil Chaput isn't either. Regards to all and
please, if anyone
has written anything of shcolarly importance...please
consider sending
it to the Kerouac Quarterly! That's what it is here for.
Again regards,
Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 15:55:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: How to Help
To all Friends of
the Kerouac Preservation Movement in America (to
paraphrase Joan
Baez):
I've been getting some private queries
about how to help. Some
people have
suggested writing letters. That's a
great idea. If you want
John Sampas to
preserve the Kerouac Archive now, let him know your feelings.
He can be reached
care of his agent:
John Sampas
c/o Sterling
Lord/Literistic
65 Bleecker St.
New York, NY 10012
Fax: 212-780-6095
I'd be especially glad if you sent me a
copy of whatever you send
Mr. Sampas, as a
nice fat sheaf of letters could be useful the next time I'm
in court--to show
the breadth of public sentiment for saving the Kerouac
archive. If you've got an academic credential, by all
means use it in your
signature.
Another good suggestion was that people
call their local newspapers
or radio shows.
Someone asked about sending me money
for help with my legal costs.
PLEASE DON'T SEND ME ANY MONEY!!! The last thing I need is Anstee
and Chaput
claiming I've cooked up this whole affair as a scam to get rich.
If it gets to the point where my legal
case bogs down for lack of
money, we'll do a
real fundraiser, and have Kesey and the boys come down
again from
Oregon, as they did to help Jan Kerouac.
ONE LAST IMPORTANT SUGGESTION:
I've also received queries about how to
help PAUL BLAKE, JR.
In Paul's case, a little cash right now
would go a long way toward
getting him and
his family back on their feet. The
situation he's in now is
kind of hopeless,
since he has to spend his time doing maintenance and
custodial duties
on the land where his trailer is parked, and it doesn't
give him much
time to look for carpentry work and earn the kind of money he
will need to get
his family back into another house.
Paul lives in the country, because
that's where his work is. In
California, even
in the country, housing costs are high, and you need first
and last month's
rent, plus security deposit, to move into a rental property.
LET'S GET PAUL BLAKE, JR. AND FAMILY
INTO A HOME AGAIN!
If everyone on the Beat-List sends him
a check for $10, it will be
enough to do the
trick. Is all the joy and reading
pleasure Jack Kerouac
gave you worth
ten bucks for his beloved nephew, "Lil Luke" in THE DHARMA
BUMS and
DESOLATION ANGELS? It is for me.
I'm sending him my check today.
You can write to him at:
Paul
E. Blake, Jr.
PO Box 33
Rio Linda, CA 95673
Okay for now. I look forward to hearing from some of you.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:00:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: No Jumping
In a message
dated 97-05-12 19:31:56 EDT, you write:
<< I read
Kerouac's BIG SUR.
<sniperooni>
>I'm now reading Brautigan's CONFEDERATE
GENERAL
>FROM BIG SUR.
Since there seems to be a Big Sur theme, try
Henry Miller's
_Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_
>>
Anyother books on
the reading list relating to Big Sur?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:00:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ESTATE DETAILS/direct flame sick of
phil
In a message
dated 97-05-13 01:56:58 EDT, you write:
<< i simply lean forward and one of my giant
boobs pop out and smothers the
poor guy, >>
Really?
(interest, interest)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:01:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Prostate Wars (also know as the Growl
from Lowell) (rhymes a
little, no?)
Welcome to the
chaaaaampiiiiion fight of the Prostate Wars.
And in this
corner
in the red trunks
-- PHILLY THE DILLY
"To be fair.
Don't write to me for a while I won't be able to answer you. I'm
going to Greece
for a few weeks with John Sampas to spend some of Stella's
hard earned
money. Philly the Dilly (ha ha)"
and in this
corner in the blue trunks -- GERRY
" I'm
through arguing with you about Kerouac scholarship. It's a
waste of my
time. I want to speak with someone who's
MY EQUAL.
I.e., please tell Mr. Sampas to send in
the first-string team now.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
Today's fight is
sponsored by the New York Public Library Toilet Tissue
Corp., whose
motto is "If you need a roll, we've got the scroll."
Winner will get
Kerouac's $50,000 raincoat, and we'll throw in a pair of
dirty socks.
Jack Kerouac, Allen
Ginsberg, Herbert Huncke, Jan Kerouac, Joan Haverty, John
Clellon Holmes,
Edith Parker, Mary Carney, Stella Sampas, and Gerard are all
watching from the
cheap seats drinking from bottles of cheap tokay that they
snuck in under
their coats. (They are not all sitting together, sorry-- these
things happen in
heaven as well).
Remember, no eye
gorging like this [gorge], no hitting below the belt like
this [hit], but
as much pissing as you want. I'm your referee, Attila the
Gorilla from
Manila.
Judges, get out
your #2 pencils, and people-- place your bets for round 1.
Gentlemen, come
out swinging....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 16:04:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: How to Help, Part Two
Hi, folks! Realized some of you might not know how to
send me copies of
your letters to
John Sampas concerning preservation of the Kerouac Archive.
You can email me at
GNicosia@earthlink.net
fax me at 415-924-2270
or mail hard copy to me at 11 Palm
Ave., Corte Madera, CA 94925
If any of you get
stories printed anywhere, I'd like to see copies of those too.
Thanks!
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:08:20 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: subscribe me
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 May 1997 12:51:36 -0400
from
<rfiedma@GROVE.UFL.EDU>
To subscribe,
send mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu.
Leave the subject
line blank. In the body of your mail type subscribe beat-l first name
last name.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:46:43 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 May 1997 19:07:19 -0400
from
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Just for the
record, I've used some of the Kerouac material at NYPL, although t
hat was several
years ago.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:11:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
At 07:46 PM
5/13/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Just for the
record, I've used some of the Kerouac material at NYPL, although t
>hat was
several years ago.
>I
apologize..I cannot speak for everybody but for what I was told by the
archivists at
NYPL. The only evidence I can see is that I haven't read
anything of
significance in any scholarly journal apart from mine in the
Commonwealth
Undergraduate Review (Volume 1 1995-96)and I only used
published books
for my research. I have checked for reasons of my own
several journals
available at Harvard and Kerouac rarely appears. There were
none to date that
were relatively recent. I will feature two in the next
issue of TKQ.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:00:36 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Research in special collections
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 May 1997 20:11:58 -0400
from
<mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
I think Ann
Charters also wrote something several years ago in the Bulletin of
Research in the
Humanities (a/k/a New York Public Library Bulletin). I think t
hat if more
Kerouac material could be located at NYPL, the materials would get
more use. I suspect the Columbia collections got a lot
more use from scholars-
-as least I used
them more personallly--because there were several related coll
ections all in
one place. I agree with Gerry that it is
more convenient for sc
holars to have
most of the materials relating to a writer in a single collectio
n. Unfortunately, that's seldom the case. Perhaps with use of computer techn
ology like the
world wide web, long distance research will become more feasible
. Gerry is right again when he says there's no
substitute for an original manu
script if you're
doing certain kinds of specialized textual research. Most of
the time,
however, a facsimile or photo copy or downloaded text will do just fi
ne.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:53:06 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970513230719.00689d30@pop.pipeline.com>
On 13MAY97 mapaul
wrote:
>What troubles
me about these posts is this...why is everyone concerned about
>the archives
when no one (by the indication of the NYPL) is utilizing what
>is in there
already?
>
>
>
> About John Sampas. I don't know what mental
image some of you have of
>Mr. Sampas.
By appearance he does not look wealthy. He's not residing in a
>mansion. He
lives in a small, unassuming house. His clothes aren't Giorgio
>Armani. He
has always been nothing but pleasant to anyone I seen talking
>with him.
This is just to say that everything isn't always the way it
>appears. This
is not to say that Gerry isn't right by
his actions but there
>is only one
voice be spoken out here on this list. We can't speak for Mr.
>Sampas. And I
assure you that Phil Chaput isn't either. Regards to all and
>please, if
anyone has written anything of shcolarly importance...please
>consider
sending it to the Kerouac Quarterly! That's what it is here for.
>Again
regards, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly.
Wouldn't it be
wonderful if Mr. Sampas would speak for himself. Why he
hasn't is
anyone's guess.
Your comment
about Nicosia's "constant need to bolster his image by
revealing his
credentials as a
scholar" is unfair in my opinion. I
see it not as
bragging, but
simply informing people that there is a foundation for what
he is saying. He
is a Keroauc scholar. Acknowledged as such. As soon as his
book, "HOME
TO WAR: A History of the Vietnam Veterans Movement" is
published he will
add the subject of the VVAW to his area of expertise.
Every Vietnam Vet
I know, and I know a bunch, are eagerly waiting
publication.
As with his
"MEMORY BABE: A Critical Biography of Jack Kerouac," I'm
looking forward
to what I anticipate will be an incredible learning
experience.
Let's get off
Nicosia and concentrate on the Kerouac Literary Archives--a
collection that
is a world treasure that must be preserved. An informed
public will help
turn the tide. Soon the American Library Association will
be involved.
It's not going to
stop until the collection is safe and secure.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:29:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
i agree!!! Don't
think I don't. If that is his intentions then it certainly
doesn't come
across that way. Anyone who takes the time to subscribe to this
list certainly is
informed enough to know Mr. Nicosia and his credentials.
This is my point.
He wants someone to speak that is on the same level as
"HE".
Why wouldn't that be Phil Chaput? Is he any less a "scholar" than
anyone else
because he hasn't published a book? His passion about this whole
thing is just as
legitimate as anybody else's. He knows enough about Kerouac
to write his own
book. The point of someone claiming that they are the
world's best
anything would rankle anyone's nerves. I won't take up any more
of my time or the
recepients of this list. I know my point is valid.The only
way to take issue
with anybody who claims they are the best is to dispute
that claim. In
this case it is through scholarship. Every one of the Kerouac
biographies has
errors in them through no fault of their own. Some things
simply were not
available like they are now. That's not Gerry's fault,
McNally's fault,
Clark's fault, or Charter's fault. It is on this viability
that makes the
claim of being the authority on anything ludicrous. Ellis
Amburn's new
biography is supposedly definitive but he in no way claims to
be an authority
on the subject. He, like all the rest, is only as informed
as his sources
let him. This is not an estate issue. It is a scholar issue.
I said it before
and I'll say it again. I RESPECT Gerry Nicosia and his work
immensely but I
do not foster the image of him being an authority on the
subject of
Kerouac. Though he indeed knows a lot about the subject, he
doesn't know
everything. Nor does John Sampas, Stella Kerouac when she was
alive, nor did
Gabrielle Kerouac. Only Jack was an authority of himself. The
best we can do is
try to understand him and his work without nurturing this
proclaimed
interest with egoism. Regards to Kerouac readers tonight, Paul...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:01:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
As a final note,
I thought it would be fair to Gerry to say that there are a
variety of things
he has written about Kerouac that are informed and
insightful. His
foreword to the Grove edition of The Subterraneans is one of
them. His
inclusion in the booklet to The Jack Kerouac Collection is
another. His
references throughout his bio with literature and American
culture has been
helpful to me in the last three years since I read Memory
Babe. I do not
mean to create any animosity or enemies with my postings. It
is just a going
concern with anybody in the academic community when there is
an apparent image
being fostered as an expert. The great Beethoven
biographer, Alexander
Wheelock Thayer said towards the end of his life when
he didn't
complete his bio (after some 2000 pages) that he still didn't know
enough. History
has found that he knew plenty and yet more bios continue to
come out on
Beethoven.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:18:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: No Jumping
In-Reply-To:
<970513185952_121312510@emout20.mail.aol.com>
Attila --
Another great Big
Sur moment to catch is a movie called
"Celebration
at Big Sur", a Woodstock-era concert with
Joan Baez, Crosby
Stills Nash (can't remember if Young
was there), lots
of good tribal dancing and ocean cliff
views. Also a fascinating bit of *cinema verite*
when
the camera
catches Stephen Stills flipping out and almost
getting into a
fist fight with a fan who's "bugging out"
and acting like
an asshole. Then Stills realizes he's starting
to act like an
asshole himself, and decides to stop fighting.
Good movie,
definitely something people on this list should
catch.
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 13 May
1997, Attila Gyenis wrote:
> In a message
dated 97-05-12 19:31:56 EDT, you write:
>
> << I
read Kerouac's BIG SUR.
>
<sniperooni>
> >I'm now reading Brautigan's CONFEDERATE
GENERAL
> >FROM BIG SUR.
> Since there seems to be a Big Sur theme, try
Henry Miller's
> _Big Sur and the Oranges of Hieronymus Bosch_
>>
>
> Anyother
books on the reading list relating to Big Sur?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:56:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Prostate Wars (also know as the Growl
from Lowell) (rhymes a
little, no?)
Enjoyed the
Parody, Atilla.
"If you need
a roll, we've got the scroll".
Clever!
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:52:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
.... It
>is just a
going concern with anybody in the academic community when there is
>an apparent
image being fostered as an expert....
>
Dear Paul, May 13, 1997
You missed the whole point. My point about credentials is this:
people on this
list are being asked to accept Phil Chaput's opinions on the
needs of textual
scholars as if he were some sort of expert.
To the best of
my knowledge,
Phil has no training in this area whatsoever.
I was trained
in it throughout
graduate school, and have practiced it for 20 years,
writing not only
about the works of Kerouac, but also those of William
Wordsworth, Henry
David Thoreau, Allen Ginsberg, Bob Kaufman, William S.
Burroughs, Jack
Micheline, Nelson Algren, and many others.
Moreover, I have
worked in dozens
of library special collections around the country.
Anyone with a bit of training knows the
rule that you don't use
xeroxes when
actual manuscript copy is available. Mr.
Chaput posing as an
expert on text
analysis with his new theory of xeroxes is absurd.
You told me you have gone back to
school yourself. Then surely you
respect the fact
that in certain areas expertise and experience count over
someone who is
just mouthing off about something he knows nothing about.
Chaput comes on
like a freshman humanities student claiming he knows more
about the world
than Plato--but he hasn't even read Plato yet, let alone
understood him.
When I said let me speak to my equal, I
mean someone who has trained
in this area for
as many years as I have. I'd like to
hear Ann Charters
come on here and
try to tell me that "xeroxes are just as good as
originals." She'd make a laughingstock of herself before
the academic
community, and
that's why she won't do it. So they send
on someone like
Chaput instead,
who has nothing to lose.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:59:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: the mysterious Corso
At 05:09 PM
5/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On Tue, 13
May 1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
>> There was a woman running around a
couple of years ago doing
>>
interviews for a biography of Corso, but I never heard any more from her (I
>> can't
even remember her name!) and I never heard any more about her book
> either.
>
>Yeah, what
happened to her? Anyone know if the book ever came out? I had her
>address
around here somewhere, but now I can't find it, and i don't remember
>the name.
>
>m
>
Dear
Michael: May 13, 1997
I finally
remembered her name--it was Kyle Roderick, and she lived in Los
Angeles. That's all I remember.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 00:27:22 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
So they send on someone like Chaput instead,
who has nothing to lose.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
what evidence is
there for this claim. similar claims
have been made in
others
letters. i could check the archives i
suppose. my preference
would obviously
be a negotiated settlement, but i don't understand
phrases like this
which seem to pop up in your letters quite often. it
reflects
something of what Hofstadter called the Paranoid Style.
Perhaps i'm
incorrect, but to this point i've seen no data provided in
any of your
arguments to support such claims. i hope
that the kerouac
collection is not
hanging on such a theory of conspiracy given the
weakness of the
form of argumentation within the field of judicial
reasoning.
just wondering in
kansas .... :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 01:02:26 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
i forgot to
include credentials. they ain't
much. I'm currently on
TIAA permanent
and total disability for manic depression. Others
include:
david rhaesa M.A.
rhetorical criticism Baylor University, assistant
debate coach at
Dartmouth College, Ph.D. program in rhetorical theory
and graduate
assistant instructor in communications AND assistant debate
coach at the
University of Iowa, assistant director of debate and
instructor in
rhetoric of political communication Augustana College,
Rock Island,
IL. (should i include summer teaching
workshops or
consultation for
high school programs?)
but i prefer just
david or race
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:05:43 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To: <v03007802af9df8229a77@[206.190.9.125]>
hi zach , i really enjoied reading your post!
did you go on
acidtrips through the states with your friends?
just curious,
dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
tripping? oh man,
i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
i even had to
talk to them!
--------------sincerely
moritz rossbach
saarbruecken, germany
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
..and i tell you things that you allready
know, so you can say:
"i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
-Henry
Rollins: Liar
On Tue, 13 May
1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
> david rhaesa
said:
> >i ain't
certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
> >it seems
your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
> >us.....
:)
>
> oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
> what i was
saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
> kids welling
up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
> hopefully
they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
> just
different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
> back in the
60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
> war), and i
don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
> gov't side
tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
> the 90s,
what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
> abortion?
aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
> cults:
Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
> Trade
Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
> a march
against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
> a 3 day war
that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
> pickett
signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
> iraqis in
the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
> bunkers that
we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
> our faithful
soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
> that's
really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
> not, don't
bother).
> So i have a
lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
> those
involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
> to drive my
generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
> the next
$%&^# Batman movie.
> but oh well.
i rant. apaologies.
>
> -zach
> i'm all for
it.
>
> -z
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:09:26 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
Moritz Rossbach
wrote:
>
> hi zach , i really enjoied reading your post!
> did you go
on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
> just
curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
> tripping? oh
man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
> i even had
to talk to them!
>
>
--------------sincerely
> moritz rossbach
> saarbruecken, germany
> moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
> http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
>
> ..and i tell you things that you allready
know, so you can say:
> "i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
>
-Henry Rollins: Liar
>
> On Tue, 13
May 1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
>
> > david
rhaesa said:
> > >i
ain't certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
> > >it
seems your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
> >
>us..... :)
> >
> > oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
> > what i
was saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
> > kids
welling up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
> >
hopefully they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
> > just
different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
> > back in
the 60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
> > war),
and i don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
> > gov't
side tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
> > the
90s, what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
> >
abortion? aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
> > cults:
Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
> > Trade
Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
> > a march
against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
> > a 3 day
war that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
> > pickett
signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
> > iraqis
in the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
> > bunkers
that we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
> > our
faithful soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
> > that's
really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
> > not,
don't bother).
> > So i
have a lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
> > those
involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
> > to
drive my generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
> > the
next $%&^# Batman movie.
> > but oh
well. i rant. apaologies.
> >
> > -zach
> > i'm all
for it.
> >
> > -z
> >
the key in
meeting people is simple....count to five between reacting to
anything. and remember the street isn't swirling up
like a tornado to
them and they
can't imagine that it is for you :)
but be careful
... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
for twenty years
or something. ... unless you want to. :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:06:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Leni Riefenstahl Re: Chaput is Kaput!
cari beat,
Leni is 90 years old
lady,
after the year
zero...
in the Hitler's
bunker in Berlin,
Leni Riefenstahl
directed the
documentary
movie "Chaput is Kaput!"
the move was
archived by the "Enigma Blob U.S.A. Force"
now when Leni
is 90 years old
the Beat-List
recalls this great piece...
Om is as i AM
yrs rinaldo
p.s.
Om
Om Om OM
OM OM i
om om om om
am i Am
mo mo
mo mo the hare is a HARE
a hare is a HARE a hare is a
hare
a beet is a beet
a bee is a bee Am i Am i Om i Om
oh a great HARE is knoking to
my door...
* THE (a) not competent beat
tears are in my eyes *
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:14:36 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:09:26 -0500
>Reply-To: race@midusa.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Moritz
Rossbach wrote:
>>
>> hi zach , i really enjoied reading your post!
>> did you
go on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
>> just
curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
>>
tripping? oh man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
>> i even
had to talk to them!
>>
>>
--------------sincerely
>> moritz rossbach
>> saarbruecken, germany
>> moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
>>
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
>>
>> ..and i tell you things that you allready
know, so you can say:
>> "i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
>>
-Henry Rollins: Liar
>>
>> On Tue,
13 May 1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
>>
>> >
david rhaesa said:
>> >
>i ain't certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>> >
>it seems your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
>> >
>us..... :)
>> >
>> > oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not
really
>> >
what i was saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money
hungry
>> >
kids welling up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the
future.
>> >
hopefully they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
>> >
just different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
>> >
back in the 60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
>> >
war), and i don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
>> >
gov't side tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
>> > the
90s, what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
>> >
abortion? aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
>> >
cults: Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
>> >
Trade Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a
movement or
>> > a
march against that. no one knows what or when things will
happen...We had
>> > a 3
day war that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
>> >
pickett signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
>> >
iraqis in the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical
weapons
>> >
bunkers that we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate
all of
>> > our
faithful soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
>> >
that's really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
>> >
not, don't bother).
>> > So
i have a lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
>> >
those involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
>> > to
drive my generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
>> > the
next $%&^# Batman movie.
>> > but
oh well. i rant. apaologies.
>> >
>> >
-zach
>> > i'm
all for it.
>> >
>> > -z
>> >
>
>the key in
meeting people is simple....count to five between reacting to
>anything. and remember the street isn't swirling up
like a tornado to
>them and they
can't imagine that it is for you :)
>
>but be
careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
>for twenty
years or something. ... unless you want to.
:)
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
Leni Riefenstahl
is filming yr performance mates....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:02:27 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: mj smith? (kerouac connection)
hey!
if anyone out
there has mitchell j smith's - he of the _kerouac
connection_ -
email address,( or mitchell, if
you're
reading this) please
contact me as i need to get a hold of him.
thanks a bundle
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:39:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Re: The korror of hen foing gurthur
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970513170323.17867B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
I said:
>>... i've
got friends who do them every year now, for the whole
>> summer,
and no they're not following phish or the undead dead. we know what
>> DID
happen but it's irrelevant to us because we concentrate on what CAN
>> happen.
sick of cultural recycling...Try flying from
Chicago to Prague and
>> Prague
to Chicago on ecstasy there's something new...(well, kinda)
Eric said:
>Following
phish is no more un-genuine than SPECIFICALLY not following
>phish.
>the past is
not IRRELEVANT if you want to improve the present or future.
that's exactly
what i was saying in this part of my original post:
" like it or
not,
future is where we're headed. ...*the ideas
and concepts laid down by KK and
crew, AG, Jk,
even my dear WSB need to be taken and listened to and
reapplied.*...
very few things are timeless. ideas that
affect society hardly
are, seeing that society is a fast changing
monster."
i was trying to
get across your point, that the past is indeed necessary
for advancement,
that it is food for thought, reinterpretation, etc...
>Zach, you
wrote something about -- there's too much going on now to be
>dwelling on
stuff rooted in the past -- (excuse the possible
>misinterpretation,
but i fucked up this email editing job.)
>
>Anything one
does IS what's happening NOW. This particular Prankster
>voyage is new
because it is (or at the time it just occured) was the
>present. To
say that an event is somehow not "new" or "current" enough
is
>meaningless,
assumes there is a definite predictable notion of what MUST
>go on at any
given moment in the "current" era.
here this seems
to me a basic philosophical debate, with big potential
blow-up. past vs
future vs present.I'd say if the pranksters had been
continuously driving
around tripping balls for 30 yrs, i'd look at it
differently. But
they disappear from most of the country save their areas
of dwelling i'm
sure, to resurface in the late 90s for more pranksterish
fun. Hm. to me,
this smells like marketing ploy. very few who were not
deeply ingrained
in KK and the MPs are going to think otherwise. cynicism
runs deep this
day and age. but then, i suppose those
ppl don't really
matter, when i
think about it. and i can't think of anything they're trying
to market, so
maybe i'm wrong, but i still get that feeling.
>If they, the
pranksters, want to drive around make appearences like they
>did before,
why the hell not? You dont have to avoid something just
>because
something similar has occured. And if other people are amused by
>it, why
should it bother you?
It's not just
similar, it is almost 100% the same (so i guess that's still
similar, but very
very similar). it bothers me because it seems silly and
self-demeaning.
it doesn't bother me that other ppl will get into it. they
may have big
personal connections to the whole thing.... i get a lot of
shit for the
things i'm into. sometimes i try to make them see what i see,
sometimes i just
let it be. i'm also seeing the things i love being turned
into corporate
tools to use on target markets. MTV subscribing to our
mailing lists,
showing up at our events....anyways, another subject,
another subject.
So i wouldn't go around telling ppl who participate in
this reunion:
'hey quit livin' in the past' or anything, because, as you've
said, their past
is also their present. I just wouldn't want to live that
way.
maybe my growing
up is the reason i'm so quick to dismiss the past. even
though
fundamentals were laid down those years i feel it has little to do
with who i am
now...so maybe that affects my outlook: i took what i felt i
needed and made
it into something i need more now...
then again, i'm
only awake for half an hour, so thinking is s luggish. take
with grain of
salt.
cheers,
zach
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:47:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: The 100 Year Test
In my musings
about what's going on with these squabbles and the various
issues I got to
thinking about what any of this might mean to the world 100
years from
now. My analysis:
1).
Whether John Sampas & family get rich or not will not make a
difference.
2).
John Sampas & Jan Kerouac will probably be a small footnote in
history.
3).
Gerry Nicosia may or may not be a footnote in history.
4).
Phil Chaput and Jerry Cimino and the Beat-L etc will NOT be a footnote
in history.
5).
Whether the will was forged or not will not make a difference to
anyone.
6). Jan
Kerouac will never have seen any money as a result of the Estate
Battle because she
died in 1996.
7).
Whether Paul Blake sees any money from the estate or not will have made
a difference to
Paul Blake and his family alone.
8).
Whether Allen Ginsberg or anyone else even cared about the Estate
Battle will not
matter and probably won't even be recorded.
9).
Whether anyone "lied" about anything will not make a
difference to
anyone.
10). Whether anyone slandered anyone will not make
a difference to anyone.
11). Many items sold off in secret will not be
known by anyone.
12). Johnny Depp's heirs will probably own a
$50,000 raincoat.
13). The whereabouts of other items sold will not
be accounted for by
anyone.
14).* Any items
in public archives will be valued by scholars and Beat fans
alike.
15).* Any items
periodically or permanently put on public display will
enhance the
messages of Jack Kerouac and the Beat Generation writers.
As I distill this
down, my opinion is that the ONLY thing that is central to
any discussion is
the Archived Collection of Jack Kerouac.
That means only
items 14 and 15
are central to the debate. The Archive
Collection is what is
really important
to history. Everything else is a side
issue.
I don't think the
issue should be whether an owner of any property has the
legal right to
sell it to anyone they choose. Who can
argue that? That is
the law and we
all agreed to it when we bought into our society by either
being born here
or moving here.
The issue here
though, is do John Sampas & family own these items legally?
The concept of
the will being forged is a tool. It is a
technicality that
Jan Kerouac was
able to use to challenge the ability of John Sampas to
control her
father's archives. She did not like the
idea that Sampas was
selling off her
father's items. She also discovered that her grandmother's
will looks like
it may have been forged. She used that
discovery to legally
challenge John
Sampas' right to own and control the archives.
The forged
will is simply a
technicality that may allow the Jack Kerouac Archives to
stay a national
(or international) treasure.
Now the Sampas
family can only claim the will is not forged.
What else can
they say? If they agree it is forged they know they
have to give up control
of their family
fortune. And in an effort to try to placate people, to get
Jan to back off
or to gain sympathy for their position, they claim they're
taking good care
of the archives, that they want to protect it and get it all
into a public
institution. They do this in an obvious
effort to buy time.
And Jan and Gerry continue to scream bloody
murder because they believe
unaccounted for
items continue to be sold with no public knowledge of the
transactions.
Now I don't know
whether John Sampas ever told anyone he wants to get the
archives into a
public institution. I never heard him
say it and I've never
seen it in print
other than from his opponents. But if he
did commit to
getting the
archives into a public institution he should HONOR THAT
COMMITTMENT! If he said this years ago and still has not
done it he is a
dishonorable man
who was simply paying lip service to his detractors in the
hopes they would
go away.
Jan Kerouac did
go away. Gerry Nicosia has not.
It is the
Collection that is important. Everything
else is a side issue.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:01:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Re: The gorror of fen koing hurthur
In-Reply-To: <3379B986.728F@midusa.net>
Moritz Rossbach
wrote:
>>
>> hi zach , i really enjoied reading your post!
>> did you
go on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
>> just
curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
>>
tripping? oh man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
>> i even
had to talk to them!
>>
and david rhaesa
wrote:
>
>the key in
meeting people is simple....count to five between reacting to
>anything. and remember the street isn't swirling up
like a tornado to
>them and they
can't imagine that it is for you :)
>
>but be
careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
>for twenty
years or something. ... unless you want to.
:)
>
>
i've always been
able to keep my finger on it in public, and i've been in
very public
places with a head full of cid: movie theaters, mini-golf
courses, state
parks, malls, grocery stores. ppl think i'm bizarre when i'm
straight so they
don't think anything of it when i'm not...the only odd
experience i've
had:
laying on a rock
high high up on a cliff in a state park with two friends,
twisted like
crazy, exchanging sunglasses because the sun looks different
through each
pair; a father with three little girls comes up and sits maybe
2 feet away from
us. this is a secluded, somewhat dangerous rock to be on.
these kids are
hoppin up and down, the father's looking at us weird and
taking pictures
of his girls...my 2 friends freak out immediately, going
off somewhere; i
laid back and stared at the sun till the kids and dad
left, then my
friends start babbling about how fucking weird that was, so i
went down to the
lake and sat down in the water till it was just up under
my lips, till i
turned into a prune. those kids had gotten to me and it was
a little hard to
deal with, as i'd been up for four days and had a fresh 2
hits in me, so i
needed the relax time...
i just keep in
mind that everyone no matter what their state, is
essentially
human. and if you think really hard, you can feel that other
humanity. it's
the only thing i've experienced i'd actually call
'profound', and
it's happened both sober and otherwise....
etc etc
zach
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:02:17 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: something completely different ....
since many seem
to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
to the Joan Baez
visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the ring.
does anyone feel
that list members invidually or in some collective
action maybe a
movement you never know could have success in pushing
more beat
generation literature into high school curriculi across the
America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
100 years concern
meters. just a thought. i'm not certain at all where
one would begin
or end. teaching materials for high
school level to
supplement the
beat writing would probably be helpful.
hopeful in the
Heart of Kansas
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:03:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Passion and
knowledge about a subject is not the same as scholarship. Every
'definitive'
biography of anyone is subject to new interpetration and new
vision and new
research. Textual scholarship is closer to archaeology than
to lit crit, as I
see it. I knew little about it really until coming here
and working with
Harry Hayford, who's been working on the Definitive Edition
of Herman
Melville for the last 32 years, which we publish (at great
financial loss, I
might add). In his 80's he still makes his way across
country to the
Houghton Library in Boston to pore over the original
manuscripts as those
are the only way to be sure of what was originally
written. He would
even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
suggested he work
off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the idea
that scholars
could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care about
the exactitudes
of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including most
of this list, I'm
sure) then only the originals would do.
Given that
Melville died a failure and practically unknown as a writer, it's
a miracle his manuscripts
survived as well as they did, and can still be
studied today. So
few of his letters survived that even now the 'definitive'
biography just
published has huge gaps in our knowledge of him. I think all
of us on this
list would agree that JK's work will not fade away over the
coming years,
that he created something radically new and different in his
contribution to
20th Century literature and that his work will continue to
be studied.
Proper publication of his work, and proper and professional
archiving of his
manuscripts and letters are essential to this future work,
and I very much
hope that those responsible legally for ensuring that this
happens do their
duty to us and to future generations of readers and
scholars and to
every 14 year old who picks up On The Road and is never
quite the same
again afterwards.
Nick W-W
Is he any less a "scholar" than
>anyone else
because he hasn't published a book? His passion about this whole
>thing is just
as legitimate as anybody else's. He knows enough about Kerouac
>to write his
own book. The point of someone claiming that they are the
>world's best
anything would rankle anyone's nerves. I won't take up any more
>of my time or
the recepients of this list. I know my point is valid.The only
>way to take
issue with anybody who claims they are the best is to dispute
>that claim.
In this case it is through scholarship. E
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to die
on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:01:00 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: something completely different
....]
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------964A0A783F
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
oops ... if this
becomes a thread this shouldn't be backchannel.
i
imagine that many
many can provide more useful thought than i on the
"why"
question. i will ponder it for some time
and attempt to come with
some more of a
reasonable rationale. but i could
definitely use help.
for me, it is by
total accidents that i was exposed to this literature
which i seem to
identify with quite well. not certain
such exposure
should be left to
Kharma Dumbs
dbr
--------------964A0A783F
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<3379EF30.68D2@midusa.net>
Date: Wed, 14 May
1997 11:58:24 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
Reply-To:
race@midusa.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Timothy
K. Gallaher" <gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: Re:
something completely different ....
References:
<199705141609.JAA04847@hsc.usc.edu>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Timothy K.
Gallaher wrote:
>
> Why would
anyone want to push beat literature into High School?
>
good question i
suppose. and it immediately popped into
me brain that
one could drop
the beat part and still have a good question.
push seems to be
one of those joking words that is far too serious.
probably would be
a better way if things weren't pushed.
but i doubt
we'll get to that
in the near future.
perhaps i'm out
of it on this. i don't know what the
"To Kill a
Mockingbird"'s
and "Great Gatsby"'s of the 90s are.
it seems that if
literature is going to be pushed on students that beat
literature
deserves its just deserts. it seems odd
to me to teach 20th
century American
literature surveys at the high school level and exclude
these figures.
also seems that
the notion of writing fiction about real life ... not
being constrained
by oh so many rules upon rules ... my encourage
students to take
the prospect of their own writing more seriously.
part of me says
why ask why and sips another sip of coffee, while
another part
seriously says that the question deserves some thought. i
promise to put
some into it.
david rhaesa
--------------964A0A783F--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:02:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
....
>Now I don't
know whether John Sampas ever told anyone he wants to get the
>archives into
a public institution. I never heard him
say it and I've never
>seen it in
print other than from his opponents. But
if he did commit to
>getting the
archives into a public institution he should HONOR THAT
>COMMITTMENT! If he said this years ago and still has not
done it he is a
>dishonorable
man who was simply paying lip service to his detractors in the
>hopes they
would go away.
>
>Jerry Cimino
>Fog City
>
Dear Jerry: May 13, 1997
Thanks for writing an even better, and
shorter, summary than the one
I tried to do the
past two days.
There's very little I can add to
this. I think you have once for
all stilled Mr.
Anstee's claim that I am doing this for fame and fortune.
As you point out,
saving Jack's archive is not going to get me much of a
footnote in
history. If I get a footnote, I'll have
to earn it with the
things I
write. I made a start with MEMORY
BABE. Hopefully HOME TO WAR
will add a bit to
that footnote. Since I'm not an old man,
I may live to
write quite a few
more books (and to see some of my unpublished books
published), God
willing, and that will be my footnote.
Now as for Mr. Sampas's statement of his
intentions, here's the
evidence:
On May 17, 1994 (three years ago), Jan
Kerouac gave her press
conference in New
York to announce the filing of her lawsuit against the
Sampases. George Tobia, Mr. Sampas's lawyer, showed up
uninivited, and
asked for an
opportunity to speak to the press.
Although Jan was not
obligated to give
him the microphone, she did, and he spoke for several minutes.
HERE IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM MR. TOBIA
(ON TAPE, WHICH I HAVE):
"THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS THAT THE
ESTATE HAD ARE ALL IN PUBLIC
ARCHIVES. A LOT OF THEM ARE IN THE NEW YORK PUBLIC
LIBRARY, I THINK SOME
ARE IN NYU
..."
Jan Kerouac interrupts: "Have you
seen them personally?"
Mr. Tobia: "I HAVE NOT. NO. I
JUST STARTED TO INQUIRE AS TO THIS,
BUT THIS IS THE
INFORMATION I HAVE. TO MY KNOWLEDGE,
NONE OF THOSE
MANUSCRIPTS HAVE
BEEN SOLD [to private collectors]...."
[The testimony of Jeffrey Weinberg, Mr.
Sampas's former dealer,
contradicts
this.]
Mr. Tobia goes on to say:
"THERE ARE IMPORTANT NOTEBOOKS AND
SO FORTH. I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN
THOSE NOTEBOOKS
IN THE ESTATE, AND THEY ARE NOT BEING CUT UP PIECEMEAL OR
SOLD PIECEMEAL OR
WHATEVER. I HAVE SEEN THEM. THEY ARE BEING CARED FOR,
AND THE VIEW
ABOUT WHAT'S TO BE DONE WITH THOSE IS TO HAVE THEM PLACED IN
THE PROPER PUBLIC
FACILITY FOR ALL TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.
THEY'RE NOT TO BE
SOLD.
"THE SAME THING WITH THE PAINTINGS
AND DRAWINGS. THEY ARE IN FACT
GOING TO BE ON
DISPLAY THIS WEEK AT A COUPLE OF GALLERIES HERE IN NEW YORK.
ALL OF THE
PAINTINGS AND DRAWINGS HAVE BEEN PRESERVED, AND AGAIN, THEY'RE
BEING SHOWN THIS
WEEK, AND EVENTUALLY WILL BE PLACED IN THE CUSTODY OF SOME
UNIVERSITY OR
SOME OTHER ARCHIVE."
Please note: Mr. Tobia was wrong about
the paintings and drawings
too. I held in my hand a drawing by Kerouac that
was sold by Sampas to San
Francisco dealer
Richard Marcel. Also, several Kerouac
paintings have been
offered by
dealers in recent years. Since Kerouac
never sold--or to my
knowledge, even
gave away--any of his paintings, I must assume these
paintings were
sold originally by John Sampas.
A day or two later, after I gave a talk
on MEXICO CITY BLUES at
NYU's Beat
conference, several people in the audience engaged me in a
discussion about
the Kerouac Estate, and asked why Mr. Sampas would not put
all of Kerouac's
manuscripts into a library for study.
Mr. Sampas, who was in the audience,
stood up and spoke to the
audience himself. (This was taped by the university, but I do
not
personally have a
copy.) Mr. Sampas said (as I recall from
memory):
"Everything
is already in the New York Public Library."
I then said, "Mr. Sampas, you're
not telling the truth. I just
spoke to the
librarians at the New York Public Library, and they don't have
anywhere near the
entire Kerouac Archive."
Mr. Sampas then yelled, rather gruffly:
"YOU don't have any business
talking to the
New York Public Library! THAT'S MY
BUSINESS!" And he
proceeded to
leave the room with his small group of friends.
For the record, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:19:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
Comments: To:
nweir-w@NWU.EDU
>>> Nick
Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
He would even at his age pack a weighty punch
in my face if I
suggested he work
off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
idea
that scholars
could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
about
the exactitudes
of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
most
of this list, I'm
sure) then only the originals would do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
**Nick,
Quick question
for you. How are the "exactitudes
of textual
scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
trying to be a
smart-ass, just don't understand.
Thanks,
-Mark
MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:33:54 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Jack Kerouac (read by Johnny Depp)
In-Reply-To: <s379adda.026@mail.campbell-mithun.com>
Mexico City Blues
"Chorus
113"
Jack Kerouac
(read by Johnny
Depp)
Got up and
dressed up
went out &
got laid
Then died and got
buried
a coffin in the
grave,
Man --
Yet everything is
perfect,
Because it is
empty,
Because it is
perfect
with emptiness,
Because it's not
even happening.
Everything
Is Ignorant of
its own emptiness--
Anger
Doesn't like to
be reminded of fits--
You start with
the Teaching
Inscrutable of
the Diamond
And end with it,
your goal
is your
startingplace,
No race was run,
no walk
of prophetic
toenails
Across Arabies of
hot
meaning you
just--
numbly don't get
there
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:43:23 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970514151436.010af00c@pop.gpnet.it>
>>but be
careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
>>for
twenty years or something. ... unless you want to. :)
>>
>>david
rhaesa
>>
>>
>Leni
Riefenstahl is filming yr performance mates....
rinaldo--isn't
the title something like Triumph of the Quills (Swills?
Pills? Last Wills and Testaments? //John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:57:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
You can't read
them properly - lots of the annotations are pencilled in, and
they don't
photocopy or scan that well - you can see what might have been
erased, date the
paper, that type of thing. That's what I'm told anyhow.
Obviously though
only bona-fide scholars are allowed to do this - originals
reatc badly to
light, especially neon, and the paper can crumble. For the
likes of you and
me, it would be fine. But it's a great deal of interest ot
scholars,
especially when dealing with writers who had an unusual style, to
try and piece
together the writing process - how each draft changed, how
those changes
were made etc. The 'original' Joyce Ulysses was significantly
different from
the one first published. My guess would be that drafts of
many of JK's
books read very differently. IF there's a suggestion being made
(I'm not quite
sure that there is) that the plan is to let scholars look at
copies while the
originals are sold off for big bucks, that would be
unfortunate.
BTW, one of the
big problems scholars see with computers is that all those
early drafts of
the great works of the future will be lost as all the
drafting is done
on screen. So take it carefully with that delete key, folks
Nick
>
>
>>>>
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
> He would
even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
>suggested he
work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
>idea
>that scholars
could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
>about
>the
exactitudes of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
>most
>of this list,
I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>**Nick,
>
>Quick
question for you. How are the
"exactitudes of textual
>scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
>trying to be
a smart-ass, just don't understand.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Mark
>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:48:17 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Leni Riefenstahl a woman in photography
In-Reply-To:
<970514114650_1457705917@emout19.mail.aol.com>
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/leni/leni/leni.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:56:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Research in special collections
>. Gerry is right again when he says there's no
substitute for an original manu
>script if
you're doing certain kinds of specialized textual research. Most of
>the time,
however, a facsimile or photo copy or downloaded text will do just fi
>ne.
>
-- Bill Gargan
Dear Bill, May 14, 1997
Of course if I'm researching in New
Delhi I'd be happy to get a
Kerouac text on
the World Wide Web, and the Web has the advantage, with
digitalization,
of absolute fidelity to the original. I
have not, by the
way, heard anyone
suggest that Mr. Sampas bothered digitalizing images of
all the Kerouac
writings he sold. For many researchers,
xeroxes of
Kerouac's
writings are all they'll ever get to see.
But let me tell you, I had plenty of
trouble doing my research at
Columbia,
specifically because they would always trot out xeroxes of
Kerouac's
letters, many of which were hand-printed in his famous fading
pencil. Their motive was good--they were trying to
protect the originals
from the wear and
tear of too much use. But many times I
could not make out
whole portions of
the text on the xerox, and I had to demand that they bring
out the originals--promising,
of course, that I would handle them with kid
gloves.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:00:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
In-Reply-To:
<199705141743.AA234041817@lulu.acns.nwu.edu>
On Wed, 14 May
1997, Nick Weir-Williams wrote:
> BTW, one of
the big problems scholars see with computers is that all those
> early drafts
of the great works of the future will be lost as all the
> drafting is
done on screen.
There are
programs out there which allow for the recording of every
keystroke in
order -- writers just have to be aware of & use them. Even more
useful (one of my
dreams, actually), is recording keystrokes & useful _time_
information, so
that the pace of a writer's typing is recorded!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:23:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
At 12:27 AM
5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
> So they send on someone like Chaput instead,
who has nothing to lose.
>> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>
>what evidence
is there for this claim. similar claims
have been made in
>others
letters. i could check the archives i
suppose. my preference
>would
obviously be a negotiated settlement, but i don't understand
>phrases like
this which seem to pop up in your letters quite often. it
>reflects
something of what Hofstadter called the Paranoid Style.
>Perhaps i'm
incorrect, but to this point i've seen no data provided in
>any of your
arguments to support such claims. i hope
that the kerouac
>collection is
not hanging on such a theory of conspiracy given the
>weakness of
the form of argumentation within the field of judicial
>reasoning.
>
>just
wondering in kansas .... :)
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
Dave, May 14, 1997
What I meant is this. Stephen Hawking is arguing with another
astrophysicist. The other astrophysicist suddenly says,
"The moon is made
of green
cheese." The other astrophysicist
is either marked as loony or
forever loses his
credibility in the astrophysics community.
However, suppose Hawking is talking
with Chaput, and Chaput says,
"The moon is
made of green cheese."
Chaput doesn't lose his professional
credibility, because he has
none in
astrophysics.
My point is that if Ann Charters were on
the Beat List saying it
doesn't matter
that Kerouac's archive is being split up, xeroxes are just as
good, etc., she'd
lose all professional credibility. She
doesn't dare do
that, and that's
why she hasn't appeared here (even though she works for
Sampas).
Chaput says he "sees Sampas
around." Every argument he's
brought
against me in the
past two weeks has already been used either by Sampas
himself, his
lawyers, or Ann Charters over the past three years. I feel
like I'm
replaying an old, old chess game with him.
Now how does Chaput
know all this
stuff? The only people who remember the
moves of the game
that exactly are
the ones who played it.
You may consider that circumstantial evidence,
but people have been
sent to the
gallows on circumstantial evidence, if it's strong enough.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:33:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
Dear members of
the Beat-L:
I want to quickly
take a few moments to make one important point.
In as much as
Gerald Nicosia and a few other people have passionately stated
their respective
opinions concerning the Kerouac archives, over the past few
weeks and even
today, these people say things in their email messages to this
group that just
are not true. These untruths start out as rumors. Gerry (who
admitted last
week that he sometimes goes "from memory")
posts wrong
information and then someone else picks it up as true.
Here are some
examples:
1. Gerry writes
today that John Sampas sold Richard Marcel a drawing by Jack
Kerouac. This is
not true. I'd like to add that
the drawing is a
sketch with no significant meaning to anything else from the
archive - it's a
table napkin drawing, if you will.
I can't
understand how a simple sketch affects the integrity of the archive.
2. Johnny Depp
never paid $50,000 for a raincoat. But
Jerry C. keeps on
bringing up a
$50,000 raincoat purchase. Nicosia mentioned it last week and
now everyone
thinks it really happened. What Depp bought and how much he paid
for what he
bought isn't the business of anyone except those involved with
the transaction.
Where Kerouac's old clothes end up is really not an issue
regarding the
archive. Jerry C. is correct about that certainly. But the
price tag of $50K
for a raincoat is bullshit.
3. In a posting a
few weeks ago, Gerry Nicosia wrote that I let someone know
explicit details
about all the sales that took place.
Gerry and I
discussed this error on his part and he corrected himself on the
Beat-L later on.
The other day I was surfing around and discovered Jo Grant's
web page on which
he is running Nicosia's piece about the JK archives. In
that essay, the
same error that Gerry took back later on is still there on Jo
Grant's page.
I wrote Jo Grant
and asked him to remove the error written about me. His
response to me
was that he hasn't had time yet. He's been too busy. The man
knows it's a lie
and doesn't have time to remove it??
So, my friends,
please keep your heads level during this Estate debate.
Remember that not
every detail thrown at you by members of either side will
always be the
truth. I do not believe that it is Gerry Nicosia's intent to
mislead us in any
way. But he relies on his memory too much still without
checking the
facts. So rumors and untruths continue to circulate. And that is
my point.
Thanks for
reading this -
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:52:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Overview, Part One
In a message
dated 97-05-12 15:00:01 EDT, you write:
<< Dear
Beat-List folks: May 12, 1997
A few days ago there was a post from
Leon Tabory, deporing the "very
tasteless, rude" interruption that I had
caused in his daily reading of
Beat-List postings, by precipitating a flood
of Estate Fight messages.
(snip snip - enough already!!!!) I do believe that,
after six years' work on a major biography,
the only critical biography, of
Kerouac, and many more years writing articles
and lecturing about the Beats
at libraries, bookstores, and not a few
universities, I earned a right to
speak out here for a couple of weeks.
<<<
Perhaps it's not
*that* you are here, but *how* you are here.
>> Mr. Rod
Anstee, who seems to have disappeared from the list, was
actually one of the prime causes of my
appearance here. Since 1983 (if
memory serves right) Mr. Anstee has been
contacting me for help with his
writing projects. Then Mr. Joe Grant informed
me etc. etc. etc.
spy versus spy (I
sigh)
>> This brings me round to the BIG ISSUE, which
all the smoke and
mirrors from amateur (but persistent) magician
Phil Chaput have sought to
obscure.
I refer to Phil as an amateur not to put him down, but to clearly
reveal his credentials, just as I have now
revealed Anstee's.
Phil Chaput is not recognized as a
scholar anywhere, to the best of
my knowledge. <<<
Lucky for him,
perhaps he can avoid the dangers of scholarship that others
have not.
>> I am
recognized as a preeminent literary and Kerouac scholar
around the world. My point is not to boast; my point is only
this: that I
certainly know a lot more about the
requirements of literary scholarship
than Mr. Chaput. <<
This isn't the
first time I've seen it on a maillist: Some expert
amiably
"asks" or "offers" to discuss something, relatively sure
that someone
will disgree with them...in fact, asking for
it! And whoever steps forward
to do so becomes
an excuse to pour forth the "pet diatribe" which was
prepared long
before.
If the disagreer persists, credentials are
compared.
>>
Can you imagine trying to doing meaningful textual analysis of
Kerouac--or a study of the development of his
composition process--without
access to ANY of those books in their original
form(s)? IMPOSSIBLE!!! Yet
that is the situation Kerouac scholars find
themselves in today.
<<
So I should worry
about these poor Kerouac scholars who are either scratching
each others eyes
out or stabbing each other in the back,
or else busy
changing our
little corner of cyberspace into a
weeks-long info-mercial ?
It is to laugh!
Julie (no scholar
- don't bother checking)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:00:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
>
>1. Gerry
writes today that John Sampas sold Richard Marcel a drawing by Jack
>Kerouac. This
is not true. I'd like to add that
>the drawing
is a sketch with no significant meaning to anything else from the
>archive -
it's a table napkin drawing, if you will.
>I can't
understand how a simple sketch affects the integrity of the archive.
>
>2. Johnny
Depp never paid $50,000 for a raincoat.
But Jerry C. keeps on
>bringing up a
$50,000 raincoat purchase. Nicosia mentioned it last week and
>now everyone
thinks it really happened. What Depp bought and how much he paid
>for what he
bought isn't the business of anyone except those involved with
>the
transaction. Where Kerouac's old clothes end up is really not an issue
>regarding the
archive. Jerry C. is correct about that certainly. But the
>price tag of
$50K for a raincoat is bullshit.
>
(Jeffrey Weinberg)
Dear
Jeffrey, May 14, 1997
I welcome your corrections. There is no doubt that you are one of a
half dozen people
who know more about Sampas's sale of Kerouac archival
pieces than
anyone else on the planet.
But I am puzzled. Why do you say Marcel's purchase of the
drawing
from Sampas is
"not true." Of course, Marcel
dealt with YOU as the
intermediary, but
the seller was obviously John Sampas, the owner of all
these Kerouac
pieces.
Moreover, my memory is that it was an
actual drawing on paper, not a
"bar
napkin."
Why isn't an actual drawing
significant? Besides, I brought it up
only as evidence
that what Mr. Sampas's lawyer George Tobia said--that NO
ARTWORK HAD BEEN
SOLD--was inaccurate.
Besides, what about the Kerouac
paintings that keep turning up in
bookseller
catalogues? There was one in a Lopez
catalogue a while back,
called, I think
"Smerdyakov Serenading (Someone)," and priced at around ten
thousand dollars.
As for the fifty thousand dollar price
tag, it was in the papers and
also told to me by
Johnny Depp's brother Dan Depp, who runs a bookstore in
Santa Cruz. Dan is very close to his brother, they travel
together a lot,
and so I figured
he knew what he was talking about.
Sorry about Joe Grant. He doesn't "work for me," as the Sampases
claim, and I
don't have much control about what he puts up or takes off,
though I have
sent him material periodically, and the piece he has up now
was given him a
couple of years ago. That seems to be
the problem with a
lot of these Web
postings. Levi Asher has kept up a piece
I gave him about
the 1994 NYU Beat
conference, which is obviously several years out of date.
This whole thing is like a big mystery
story that keeps unraveling,
and with each
week and each month, we learn more than we knew before. It
wouldn't have to
be a mystery, however, if Mr. Sampas would just come clean
with all the
facts and figures right now--tell us what he's sold to whom,
what he intends
to do with the rest, and when he intends to do it.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:09:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
Hi Jeffrey,
Thanks for the
clarification regarding the raincoat. I
consider the
situation
regarding the raincoat a minor side issue, and while I may have
passed along an
inaccuracy regarding the amount paid, I don't believe there
is any dispute
that the raincoat was in fact purchased by Depp. Whether he
paid $5 or $5M is
not a concern of mine. But to call my
comments an untruth
because I'm not
privy to the exact amount is a fine point at best.
Jeffrey, you say
Gerry writing that John Sampas sold Richard Marcel a drawing
is "not
true". You state the "drawing
is a sketch with no significant
meaning" as
it is a "table napkin drawing". So what is it? Is it true he
sold a table
napkin sketch? You're playing with
semantics here. In my mind
a sketch and a
drawing are the same thing!
Jefferey, you're
playing loose with the facts and what is truth here. You're
in a position to
know details most of the rest of us are not in a position to
know. Unless you're willing to share those details
don't accuse others of us
who comment on
what we believe to be fact as telling "untruths". Did Depp
buy the raincoat
or not? If he did then saying I'm
telling an "untruth"
because he didn't
pay exactly $50,000 for it is a cheap shot.
Did Marcel buy
a "napkin
sketch" by JK or not? If he did
then don't say Nicosia is telling
an
"untruth" because he called it a drawing!
Jeffrey, you been
very quiet regarding this entire situation for two weeks
now and I can
respect that if that's the position you want to take. As a
dealer I can
understand you wanting to keep quiet on certain transations etc.
But don't you dare accuse me of telling an
"untruth" because you happen to
know the exact
purchase price for the raincoat and I don't!
If you know
details about the
raincoat, correct me if I'm "incorrect", but I am offended
by you saying
this is an "untruth". It makes it sound like I am intentionally
lying and you
know damn well I am not!
Jerry Cimino
Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:49:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Subject: KICKS JOY DARKNESS
I want to thank B. Sorensen for his
mention of Eric Andersen and
his contribution
to the Kerouac CD. I think that track is
one of the best
on the disc, but
then perhaps I'm also biased, since I've known Eric for so
long: he and I
were high school buddies and performed in a folk group. His
dad--an
engineer--turned me on to writers like Dos Passos; I was already
into the Beats,
as well as Kerouac's early literary god, Thomas Wolfe.
Later, before he
dropped out of Hobart College to pursue a fulltime career
as a
singer-songwriter, Eric used to ride freight trains up to see Cornell
University to me
and we'd swap songs and poems.
I consider Eric to be one of America's
great troubadours, though I
guess he's better
known in Europe these days. His beat
connection is made
clear in the
title song from his album GHOSTS UPON THE ROAD (Gold Castle,
1989), in which
he refers to Dean Moriarty and later says, "And ramblin
Jack was wild but
Lowell Jack was first and I still shiver from the words .
. ." JK and the very early Elvis (in his Sun
Records days) probably were
most responsible
for setting Eric on his own "road."
His work dates back to the early 1960s;
he was coming up in the
Village in New
York when Dylan made his breakthrough.
(If Dylan was a
musical Ginsberg,
Eric was a musical Rimbaud.) His first
wife, Debbie
Green, was
reputed to have taught Joan Baez to play guitar. One night in
his loft there
was a legendary jam session featuring Eric Clapton, Jimi
Hendrix, and John
Hammond, Jr. (those were the days!). At
one point The
Beatles' manager,
Brian Epstein, was interested in Eric, but then Epstein
died. Other people--Judy Collins, Peter Paul &
Mary, The Blues Project,
Linda Ronstadt,
etc.--covered his songs successfully.
His career has had
its ups and downs
but he's never achieved the level of fame he deserves.
His best album,
without a doubt, is BLUE RIVER (Columbia, 1972--still
available, on
cd). GHOSTS UPON THE ROAD may rank
second. STAGES: THE LOST
ALBUM (Columbia,
1991) was to have followed BLUE RIVER, but the master
tapes were lost
for nearly twenty years! Another
interesting disc is his
collaboration
with Rick Danko of The Band and the Norwegian
singer-songwriter
Jonas Fjeld, recorded in Europe where they toured
together a few
years ago: DANKO/FJELD/ANDERSEN (RYKO, 1993).
Robert Elliot Fox
Associate
Professor
Department of
English
Southern Illinois
University at Carbondale
Carbondale,
Illinois 62901
618-453-6864
bfox@siu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:12:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: KICKS JOY DARKNESS (NBC - a related question to a post)
At 02:49 PM
5/14/97 -0500, Robert Elliot Fox wrote:
>Another
interesting disc is his collaboration with Rick
>Danko of The
Band and the Norwegian singer-songwriter
>Jonas Fjeld,
recorded in Europe where they toured
>together a
few years ago: DANKO/FJELD/ANDERSEN
>(RYKO, 1993).
I've heard
through the grapevine that Danko was
recently arrested
in Japan for receiving a package
of heroin in the
mail, can anyone confirm this
rumour?
Thanx,
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:08:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
Comments: To:
RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
In-Reply-To: <3379E209.458C@midusa.net>
an admirable
cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
idea. at a high
school level, at least in terms of my
for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing
highschool
experience,
having beat lit taught in a structured school situation would
be a disaster.
though it would create more exposure, i think Beat stuff
would be better
served for "Optional" assignments rather than the core
curriculum. i
still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
pounding strict
nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
teaching and this
might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
discovering On
the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
who knows,
Eric
On Wed, 14 May
1997, RACE --- wrote:
> since many
seem to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
> to the Joan
Baez visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the ring.
>
> does anyone
feel that list members invidually or in some collective
> action maybe
a movement you never know could have success in pushing
> more beat
generation literature into high school curriculi across the
>
America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
> 100 years
concern meters. just a thought. i'm not certain at all where
> one would
begin or end. teaching materials for
high school level to
> supplement
the beat writing would probably be helpful.
>
> hopeful in
the Heart of Kansas
>
> david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:13:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: waste of comp time Re: Chaput is Kaput!
In-Reply-To: <199705141823.LAA12073@sweden.it.earthlink.net>
Wait a sec, hold
on now Gerry!
Are you
insinuating that the moon ISNT made of green cheese?
awl be damned,
Eric
On Wed, 14 May
1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> At 12:27 AM
5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> >
> > So they send on someone like Chaput instead,
who has nothing to lose.
>
>> Best always, Gerry
Nicosia
> >
> >what
evidence is there for this claim.
similar claims have been made in
> >others
letters. i could check the archives i
suppose. my preference
> >would
obviously be a negotiated settlement, but i don't understand
> >phrases
like this which seem to pop up in your letters quite often. it
> >reflects
something of what Hofstadter called the Paranoid Style.
> >Perhaps
i'm incorrect, but to this point i've seen no data provided in
> >any of
your arguments to support such claims. i
hope that the kerouac
>
>collection is not hanging on such a theory of conspiracy given the
> >weakness
of the form of argumentation within the field of judicial
>
>reasoning.
> >
> >just
wondering in kansas .... :)
> >
> >david
rhaesa
> >
> >
> Dave, May 14, 1997
>
> What I meant is this. Stephen Hawking is arguing with another
>
astrophysicist. The other astrophysicist
suddenly says, "The moon is made
> of green
cheese." The other astrophysicist
is either marked as loony or
> forever
loses his credibility in the astrophysics community.
> However, suppose Hawking is talking
with Chaput, and Chaput says,
> "The
moon is made of green cheese."
> Chaput doesn't lose his professional
credibility, because he has
> none in
astrophysics.
> My point is that if Ann Charters were
on the Beat List saying it
> doesn't
matter that Kerouac's archive is being split up, xeroxes are just as
> good, etc.,
she'd lose all professional credibility.
She doesn't dare do
> that, and
that's why she hasn't appeared here (even though she works for
> Sampas).
> Chaput says he "sees Sampas
around." Every argument he's
brought
> against me
in the past two weeks has already been used either by Sampas
> himself, his
lawyers, or Ann Charters over the past three years. I feel
> like I'm
replaying an old, old chess game with him.
Now how does Chaput
> know all
this stuff? The only people who remember
the moves of the game
> that exactly
are the ones who played it.
> You may consider that circumstantial
evidence, but people have been
> sent to the
gallows on circumstantial evidence, if it's strong enough.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:17:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970514170227.21198B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
On Wed, 14 May
1997, Robert H. Sapp wrote:
> i still
think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
> pounding
strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
> teaching and
this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
> discovering
On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
Totally exactly.
Beat stuff is still fresh -- it's still more relevant than
older lit in
certain ways for certain things, and I think teaching it in
schools takes out
the bite and maybe even misses the point. Personally I'd
rather see an end
to schools. Kids could learn more from an uninhibited
Internet
connection than they could thru obsolete teaching methods anyway.
Now _that_ would
be a Beat crusade I could get into.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:27:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
Comments: To:
rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET
Eric,
Good point, but I
don't think an early exposure to the Beats is going to
turn young
students off. Some students are going to
love it and others
will read it like
they read the back of a cereal box and say, "Yeah, so
what?" I don't think having OTR suggested by a
trusted friend
guarantees the
reader will like it either. I've
suggested Beat pieces
to friends and
they come back with, "While I like it, it just didn't do
anything for
me." I for one would have loved
being introduced to Beat
Gen writers as a
HS student. Now that I think about it,
maybe you're
onto something
with the "Optional assignment" route.
But then again my
opinions on this
subject were formed because I had instructors that took
an active part in
my education and opened my mind (and left it open)
rather than fill
it with "strict nonsense" and blather.
Crunching numbers
when I'd rather be writing.
-Mark
MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>>>
"Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET> 05/14/97 04:08pm
>>>
an admirable
cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
idea. at a high
school level, at least in terms of my
for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing
highschool
experience,
having beat lit taught in a structured school situation
would
be a disaster.
though it would create more exposure, i think Beat stuff
would be better
served for "Optional" assignments rather than the core
curriculum. i
still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
pounding strict
nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
teaching and this
might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
discovering On
the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
who knows,
Eric
On Wed, 14 May
1997, RACE --- wrote:
> since many
seem to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
> to the Joan
Baez visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the
ring.
>
> does anyone
feel that list members invidually or in some collective
> action maybe
a movement you never know could have success in pushing
> more beat
generation literature into high school curriculi across the
> America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
> 100 years
concern meters. just a thought. i'm not certain at all
where
> one would
begin or end. teaching materials for
high school level to
> supplement
the beat writing would probably be helpful.
>
> hopeful in
the Heart of Kansas
>
> david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:07:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
At 12:19 PM
5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
> He would
even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
>suggested he
work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
>idea
>that scholars
could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
>about
>the exactitudes
of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
>most
>of this list,
I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> -----
>
>**Nick,
>
>Quick question
for you. How are the "exactitudes
of textual
>scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
>trying to be
a smart-ass, just don't understand.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Mark
>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
Mark, May 14, 1997
I don't doubt Nick can answer for
himself, there are certainly a
variety of
reasons, but let me just offer the preeminent one in my mind:
Copies are made by human beings using
technology. Human beings are
fallible. The guy making the copies just broke up with
his girl or has a
stomach ache or
just flunked his exams and is so preoccupied he forgets to
copy 20 pages out
of the middle somewhere. Or the copy
machine is feeding
on a slant and
cuts off the end words of the bottom two lines of each page.
Chaput claimed this was far-fetched,
but in my experience it's more
the rule than the
exception.
We today have hundreds of different
versions of each of
Shakespeare's
plays. At least one of the reasons for
this is that each guy
that copied them
put in and left out different things.
AND, OF COURSE, WE
DON'T HAVE
SHAKESPEARE'S ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS TO GO BACK AND CHECK WITH.
(No, I'm not suggesting John Sampas
sold those off too.)
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:51:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Krackowack Jack
In a message
dated 97-05-14 14:28:54 EDT, Gerry Nicosia writes:
<< My point is that if Ann Charters were on the
Beat List saying it
doesn't matter that Kerouac's archive is being
split up, xeroxes are just as
good, etc., she'd lose all professional
credibility. She doesn't dare do
that, and that's why she hasn't appeared here
(even though she works for
Sampas). >>
I don't think
that Ann Charters is working for John Sampas as a maid anymore.
I believe she
is working at a college, maybe as a
janitor.
hee hee hee
Please, let's
stop saying who is working for Sampas all the time. Ann
Charters wrote
the first biography of Kerouac and I don't think that Sampas
hired her at that
time. She had been hired by Sampas to edit the Kerouac
Letters book
(volume 2 as well). The Letters books
don't state - Written by
Ann Charters, they say Edited by Ann
Charters. Editors edit. I don't
believe she
engages in many social get-togethers or
cocktail hours with John
Sampas. She was,
and may still be, teaching at a college. She is a Professor,
writer, etc. I
don't think her resume says "Work for Sampas".
As far as who
should be talking to us on the BEAT L list, the answer is
whoever wants to.
Mr. Nicosia, I'm sorry but it's not up to you to demand
that Ann, or John
Sampas use this venue to air their positions. The fact that
you have made
yourself available is fine, but it is your own decision.
As far as Phil
Chaput is concerned, I know him and he's a nice guy. His
interest in
Kerouac is personal. His father was a good friend of Kerouac's.
He is voicing his
own opinions here. If someone disagrees with him, please
disagree with the
point. Whether he is or is not a Sampas crony is irrelevant
to the argument.
I don't think that Phil has ever represented himself as a
Sampas spokesman
and I think the reason is because he is not. And just
because Phil did
buy me a beer once (thanks Phil), please don't label me as a
Phil crony.
As far as Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac committee is concerned, who they invite
is up to them. [I
was on the committe for 1 year.] The committee was set up
primarily to help
establish the Kerouac Commemorative in Lowell. Now they
have yearly
events in October to celebrate Kerouac. There is no requirement
to invite
anybody. Cost of the speaker, theme of the event, determines who
gets invited.
Themes have included Kerouac and Sports, International Kerouac,
Kerouac's
Spirituality etc. So far, they have not had Kerouac and the Estate
War as a theme.
If they do, maybe then they could consider inviting Gerry.
Does John Sampas
have some influence there? Yes, and he has also provided the
committee with
photos for posters and money. Does he
control it? No.
And while I
personally think it was wrong not to invite Jan to a Lowell
event, I have to
be blunt here-- I don't feel that there was a requirement to
invite Gerry
Nicosia. Gerry always claims that both
he and Jan have a right
to be included in
certain events. That it was a package deal that both He and
Jan get invited.
I don't think it's up to him to demand that they be invited
to particular
events. I don't remember being invited to quite a few events
that I thought I
should be part of. So it goes.
Take life easy,
and life becomes easier
enjoy, Attila
PS: Gerry - One
thing that you and I are in total agreement with (isn't that
incredible) is
that the old growth forest in the Headwaters should not be cut
down. I was just
told by one of the forestors who works for Pacific Lumber,
that clear
cutting is ecologically more sound then select cut.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:02:19 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Tom Clark
Hello Dave,
The Tom Clark
benefit mystery has been solved. I talked with him at
length about the
benefit, and when he looked into it he came up with
another (REAL)
Tom Clark. Apparently an "Old Beat" dying with AIDS.
We were both
confused on the "Beat" thing and surprised to find another
T.C. out there
writing under that name. With medical bills
soring the upward
it's good to see benefits for people who can't afford
the battle. I had
to build the front part of a splint from
hardware store
PVC for my kids broken shin because the insurance com-
pany wouldn't
cover that part of the splint-and that's where the break
happened! The
accident took place last week-they told me to give him
Tylenol; pretty
medieval...oh well, fuck 'em.
Richard Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:59:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
At 04:27 PM
5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Eric,
>Good point,
but I don't think an early exposure to the Beats is going to
>turn young
students off. Some students are going to
love it and others
>will read it
like they read the back of a cereal box and say, "Yeah, so
>what?" I don't think having OTR suggested by a
trusted friend
>guarantees
the reader will like it either. I've
suggested Beat pieces
>to friends
and they come back with, "While I like it, it just didn't do
>anything for
me." I for one would have loved
being introduced to Beat
>Gen writers
as a HS student. Now that I think about
it, maybe you're
>onto
something with the "Optional assignment" route. But then again my
>opinions on
this subject were formed because I had instructors that took
>an active
part in my education and opened my mind (and left it open)
>rather than
fill it with "strict nonsense" and blather.
>
>Crunching
numbers when I'd rather be writing.
>-Mark
>
>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>
>>>>
"Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET> 05/14/97 04:08pm
>>>
>an admirable
cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
>idea. at a
high school level, at least in terms of my
>for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing
highschool
>experience,
having beat lit taught in a structured school situation
>would
>be a
disaster. though it would create more exposure, i think Beat stuff
>would be
better served for "Optional" assignments rather than the core
>curriculum. i
still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
>pounding
strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
>teaching and
this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
>discovering
On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
>
>who knows,
>Eric
>
>On Wed, 14
May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
>> since
many seem to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
>> to the
Joan Baez visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the
>ring.
>>
>> does
anyone feel that list members invidually or in some collective
>> action
maybe a movement you never know could have success in pushing
>> more
beat generation literature into high school curriculi across the
>>
America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
>> 100
years concern meters. just a
thought. i'm not certain at all
>where
>> one
would begin or end. teaching materials
for high school level to
>>
supplement the beat writing would probably be helpful.
>>
>> hopeful
in the Heart of Kansas
>>
>> david
rhaesa
>>
>
>
you guys all make
sound observations, and I have to say, I agree with most,
if not all.
(sounds like I'm running for public office)
anyway, yeah,
having someone
"turn you on" like the way it happened for me, is life
changing at the
very least, however, what changed my life most was my great
luck to have
teachers in HIGH SCHOOL that exposed me to great lit and
poetry. THAT IS WHAT CHANGED MY LIFE! meeting the beats/kerouac in my mid
20's just drove
the shit home for me and sent me further down a path it
seemed I was
already on. I think that teaching OTR could be of great value
not just as lit,
but to also view it in terms of the impact it had on
national and
global culture at the time of its publication on thru to the
present as
witnessed here on this list and elsewhere.
doubt very seriously
that little else
might make it past the mind cops mental meat grinder
because of direct
connect to drugs and sex. OTR has
reference to the same,
however, not
quite as bold, and in light of everything that has come down
the pike since,
pretty damned lightweight if you ask me, but then I'm just a
silly romantic ya
know? by the by, I have in my little
circle of things
here in L.A. met
quite a few younger folks (high school age) that consume it
all and we older
types do all that we can to educate them as well as they
educate us. this is most desirable of all.
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:06:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
At 11:57 AM
5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>You can't
read them properly - lots of the annotations are pencilled in, and
>they don't
photocopy or scan that well - you can see what might have been
>erased, date
the paper, that type of thing. That's what I'm told anyhow.
>Obviously
though only bona-fide scholars are allowed to do this - originals
>reatc badly
to light, especially neon, and the paper can crumble. For the
>likes of you
and me, it would be fine. But it's a great deal of interest ot
>scholars,
especially when dealing with writers who had an unusual style, to
>try and piece
together the writing process - how each draft changed, how
>those changes
were made etc. The 'original' Joyce Ulysses was significantly
>different
from the one first published. My guess would be that drafts of
>many of JK's
books read very differently. IF there's a suggestion being made
>(I'm not
quite sure that there is) that the plan is to let scholars look at
>copies while
the originals are sold off for big bucks, that would be
>unfortunate.
>
>BTW, one of
the big problems scholars see with computers is that all those
>early drafts
of the great works of the future will be lost as all the
>drafting is
done on screen. So take it carefully with that delete key, folks
>
>Nick
>
>>
>>
>>>>>
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
>> He would
even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
>>suggested
he work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
>>idea
>>that
scholars could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
>>about
>>the
exactitudes of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
>>most
>>of this
list, I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----------
>>
>>**Nick,
>>
>>Quick
question for you. How are the
"exactitudes of textual
>>scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
>>trying to
be a smart-ass, just don't understand.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>-Mark
>>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>>
>>
>**************************************************************************
>*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
>It's better
to die on your feet than to live on your knees
>
>Nick
Weir-Williams
>Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
>President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
>List Manager,
chipub listserv
>
>ph: 847 491 8114
>fax: 847 491
8150
>
I imagine as
well, if some fool with a grudge, or just for kicks actually,
could access/hack
the material and possibly alter it.
stranger things have
happened.
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:38:35 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
WE
> DON'T HAVE
SHAKESPEARE'S ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS TO GO BACK AND CHECK WITH.
> (No, I'm not suggesting John Sampas
sold those off too.)
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
Now that is funny
.... :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:46:13 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: The korror of hen foing gurthur
Zach,
I fail to see how
the buccolic Wisconsin bashes you describe (which
sound great to
me) are fundamentally different than the Human Be-In.
Everything is the
same. Everything is different.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:59:18 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
Jerry,
We agree on
alot. If the will is forged--let Nicosia
have it. But if
it isn't, then
John Sampas can do anything he wants with it--burn it if
that's his
thing. The courts will decide and no
Beat-L vote will make
any damn
difference.
As I said before,
I would prefer that the stuff is available.
But
despite having
spent a long time in the academy studying lit crit, I am
not convinced
that the world will be a whole lot poorer without a lot of
textual criticsm
resulting from scholarly perusal of these things. The
primary works are
what are important, and they are there.
I never knew
Jan, but do you
really think that all that mattered to her was seeing
that the archive
was preserved? For her this had to be
about paternity,
about her very
justified anger about the way Jack and his family had
treated her. This is not a scholarly war. It is a battle for blood and
guts. I just don't see Gerry and the ghost of Jan
standing tall only
for academic
rights to inquire into the Kerouac ouvre.
There is a lot
more to it than
that and that is why it gets so damn nasty on both
sides. 100 years from now the work will be
there. The scholarship will
be boring 100
year old stuff. People will rediscover
the work based on
the principle
texts. Do you think alot about what
happened to Keat's
overcoat (if
there was one)? Would it matter if some
actor in London
had bought it
rather than it being in the British Museum?
> Jan Kerouac
did go away. Gerry Nicosia has not.
>
> It is the
Collection that is important. Everything
else is a side issue.
>
> Jerry Cimino
> Fog City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:27:18 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Overview, Part One
Julie,
Thanks much for
this note of sanity. I also appreciated
Jeffery
Weinberg's
reasoned, balanced view. I think that
most Beat-L members
have been very
patient with this. We realize it is
important. We also
know that the
courts are going to solve it and we are not.
I am ready to
cast my one vote to ask these guys to all just take their
self serving
posts elsewhere. Go outside the bar and slug it out. Let's
talk about Jack
Kerouac, or Jack's texts. All these guys
might have
something to add
when they get trough libelling each other.
J Stauffer (I
might have a Master's Degree too, watch out!)
Julie Hulvey
wrote:. .
> So I should
worry about these poor Kerouac scholars who are either scratching
> each others
eyes out or stabbing each other in the back,
or else busy
> changing our
little corner of cyberspace into a
weeks-long info-mercial ?
>
> It is to
laugh!
>
> Julie (no
scholar - don't bother checking)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:34:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Attila the Hun
Hey, Attila! May 14, 1997
What, did Anstee and Chaput wear their
fists out punching at me?
Time for guy
number three to step up? (Maher ain't
been doin' too bad
either with his
"sophomoric criticism.")
Didn't you guys ever read the rules of
fair fightin'? One against
one, and at least
a week to recuperate. That was the rule
in my old
neighborhood.
Nick the Greek
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:34:32 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> >
> >
> Dave, May 14, 1997
>
> What I meant is this. Stephen Hawking is arguing with another
>
astrophysicist. The other astrophysicist
suddenly says, "The moon is made of
green cheese." The other astrophysicist is either marked as
loony or forever
loses his credibility in the astrophysics
community.
> However, suppose Hawking is talking
with Chaput, and Chaput says, "The
moon is made of green cheese."
> Chaput doesn't lose his professional
credibility, because he has none
in astrophysics.
it seems that
Hawking is fairly good at recognizing different types of
rhetorical
explanations are necessary for varying audiences. my hunch
is that he could
provide a fairly devestating yet kind explanation for
why the phrase
"the moon is made of Green Cheese" is meaningless
scientifically
even though it might have meaning in other contexts.
> My point is that if Ann Charters were
on the Beat List saying it
doesn't matter that Kerouac's archive is being
split up, xeroxes are just as
good, etc., she'd lose all professional
credibility. She doesn't dare do that,
and that's why she hasn't appeared here (even
though she works for Sampas).
There you go
again. The fact that she would not be
able to make
academically
silly arguments does not necessarily provide the basis for
why Ms. Charters
does not choose to participate in this listserv.
Moreover, the
fact that she "works" for Sampas does not necessarily
determine her
choices concerning which listservs she participates in (or
for what she has
for breakfast for that matter). once
again, you're
jumping from
point A to point Q in a conspiratorial mode.
Frankly, i
don't understand
WHY you feel a need to incorporate these conspiratorial
arguments into
your discourse. it seems that your
arguments are far
more informative
and persuasive if such methods could be omitted. it
doesn't take a
Stephen Hawking to recognize unsupported conspiracy
charges.
> Chaput says he "sees Sampas
around." Every argument he's
brought
against me in the past two weeks has already
been used either by Sampas
himself, his lawyers, or Ann Charters over the
past three years. I feel like
I'm replaying an old, old chess game with
him. Now how does Chaput know all
this stuff?
The only people who remember the moves of the game that exactly
are the ones who played it.
it isn't a chess
game. it is a different conversation b/c
of who we the
audience are
(folks who've not been privvy to previous wrestling
bouts). i don't understand, again, the frustration
at facing perennial
questions
concerning your position.
> You may consider that circumstantial
evidence, but people have been
sent to the gallows on circumstantial
evidence, if it's strong enough.
i doubt that
you're in your wildest fantasies wishing the gallows for
Sampas. i want to believe that you are interested
rather in preserving
Kerouac archives
as you've said. the consistent
"tossing in" of these
types of phrases
makes it much easier for folks to question
movitations.
circumstantial
evidence of conspiracy is a very very very hard
argumentative
road to traverse.
i don't think,
and perhaps i'm missing something here, that the
conspiratorial
tones and suggestions in many of your messages are at all
intrinsic to your
support of retaining Kerouac's arvhives at the NYPL or
elsewhere. what do these conspiratorial asides do for
your position but
alienate readers?
i agree with you
by the way, that humans are as a rule atrocious
photocopiers. don't know why.
david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:13:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila the Hun
At 07:34 PM
5/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hey,
Attila! May 14, 1997
>
> What, did Anstee and Chaput wear their
fists out punching at me?
>Time for guy
number three to step up? (Maher ain't
been doin' too bad
>either with
his "sophomoric criticism.")
-I don't
understand why you think you are untouchable. Your textual analysis
in the book is
not "sophomoric". But if it was, that is an issue that would
be taken up by
scholars who would come up with a thesis and discourse on why
it would be
described as such. Am I sophmoric because I am a first year
Graduate student
in American Studies with a concentration in the American
Renaissance of
the nineteenth century? I then could not ever take issue with
your work should
I find a reason to without fear of violent reprisal? Is
that not the
nature of scholarship? Surely your work on Vietnam vets had
improved upon
someone else's work that could not be researched at the time
of your studies.
I have one published thesis in a scholarly journal that I
am proud of but
if one was to take issue with it I wouldn't be offended. I
would be
interested though in what they had to say. Geez...Paul MAHER JR.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:28:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
In a message
dated 97-05-14 21:02:28 EDT, you write:
<< an
admirable cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
>idea. at a high school level, at least in
terms of my
>for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing
highschool
>experience, >>
At the age of 15
I heard my mother start reading out loud and translating The
Ticket That
Exploded to her French lover, Claude Pelieu.
I also heard her
translating
Reality Sandwiches. By the time I was 16
I had met AG, LF, Bob
Kaufman, and all
the Beats living in SF including Charles Plymell. I can't
say that it
changed my life because it was the way my life was.
I don't believe
it has ever hurt a teenager to read good literature.
My mother, Mary
Beach and Claude Pelieu are considered the best translators
of the Beats into
French. Their translation of Bob Kaufman
made him more
famous in France
than in America.
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:40:53 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 97-05-14 21:02:28 EDT, you write:
>
> << an
admirable cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
> >idea. at a high school level, at least in
terms of my
>
>for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing highschool
> >experience, >>
>
> At the age
of 15 I heard my mother start reading out loud and translating The
> Ticket That
Exploded to her French lover, Claude Pelieu.
I also heard her
> translating
Reality Sandwiches. By the time I was 16
I had met AG, LF, Bob
> Kaufman, and
all the Beats living in SF including Charles Plymell. I can't
> say that it
changed my life because it was the way my life was.
> I don't
believe it has ever hurt a teenager to read good literature.
> My mother,
Mary Beach and Claude Pelieu are considered the best translators
> of the Beats
into French. Their translation of Bob
Kaufman made him more
> famous in
France than in America.
> Pam Plymell
as usual the
Cherry Valley connection provides wonderful insights.
i recall a
student at Stuyvesant who told me her introduction to
literature that
mattered to her was Kafka. she was so
far ahead of me
and my kansas-to
kill a mockinbird education. she went on
to
comparative lit
at Stanford. used to talk long distance
about
shakespeare
papers over the phone. she seems to have
handled it
reasonably well. writes regularly for the New Republic. this week's
piece on the
Philadelphia volunteer talkathon was priceless in my
opinion.
my experience
with working with high school students in the summers over
the years at
kansas, baylor, dartmouth, michigan, iowa, illinois state,
fort hays state
(and some i've probably lost to the memory banks) is
that they are way
under-rated in their ability to "handle" materials.
david rhaesa
is charles still
on-the-road?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:47:08 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
>
>...I don't
believe it has ever hurt a teenager to read good literature.
>...
amen, i find it
strange how much good literature and thought is to be
hidden from the
young, to protect them, but very little of television is
ever turned off.
Beat literature , (like beets,hi rinaldo)
shouldn't be
forced but if the
palate is ready then i would think this
literature,
which i consider
real literature of this time and age should be, must be
allowed, to shut
their minds in an artificial box is to me far greater
danger. As much as i enjoy twitting the generations
that are two
generations
younger than my son i know that they must face with us, an
incredible world
and protection from thought and understanding is not a
protection they
need.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:40:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tracy J Neumann
<tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
In-Reply-To: <337A873C.37D1@sunflower.com>
I wholeheartedly
agree with Patricia. I'm a college
senior, so high
school wasn't
that long ago, and I really resent that the
content of many
conservative high school English classes leads one to
believe that
nothing worthwhile was written after the Catcher in the Rye.
While I think
that it is important for students to read Dostoevsky and
Kafka and
Hemingway and the classics, it is equally important to introduce
them to more
modern/post-modern/whatever authors who are quite likely
writing in a
manner that is more directly applicable to their lives. I
think it would be
great if a high school included Coupland's Generation X
in it's
curriculum (although I do think it's one of the worst books ever
written); the
implications of it's publication affect highschoolers in a
way that War and
Peace cannot. Part of the problem with
high school (and
i speak only from
my experience and that of friends, I'm sure not all
schools are like
this) is that it does not change with technological or
intellectual
progress. High school students today
are, to a large extent,
learning the same
thing their parents learned forty years ago and in the
same manner they
learned it. At least no one is ducking
and covering
anymore...The
point of all of this long winded babbling (long day--sorry)
is that hell yes
the beats should be taught in school, if for no other
reason than
students will read it. I think the
attention of the average
student, staring
out the window, bored to tears by emily Dickinson's
prattling, might
be piqued by someone like Allen Ginsberg (or perhaps by
Gregory Corso and
his ode to Dickinson!) Isn't the point
to educate, to
encourage
students to read and learn and expand their horizons? Why do
schools
manipulate this to mean educate a little, encourage students to
read only certain
books and learn only certain things, expand their
horizons to a
certain, approved level? I love
patricia's comment that
"protection
from thought and understanong is not a protection they
need"--it
should be every teachers creed!!
Tracy
On Wed, 14 May
1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:
> Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
> >
> >...I
don't believe it has ever hurt a teenager to read good literature.
> >...
> amen, i find
it strange how much good literature and thought is to be
> hidden from
the young, to protect them, but very little of television is
> ever turned
off. Beat literature , (like beets,hi rinaldo)
shouldn't be
> forced but
if the palate is ready then i would
think this literature,
> which i
consider real literature of this time and age should be, must be
> allowed, to
shut their minds in an artificial box is to me far greater
> danger. As much as i enjoy twitting the generations
that are two
> generations
younger than my son i know that they must face with us, an
> incredible
world and protection from thought and understanding is not a
> protection
they need.
> p
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:42:15 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
> >
> >...I
don't believe it has ever hurt a teenager to read good literature.
> >...
> amen, i find
it strange how much good literature and thought is to be
> hidden from
the young, to protect them, but very little of television is
> ever turned
off. Beat literature , (like beets,hi rinaldo)
shouldn't be
> forced but
if the palate is ready then i would
think this literature,
> which i
consider real literature of this time and age should be, must be
> allowed, to
shut their minds in an artificial box is to me far greater
> danger. As much as i enjoy twitting the generations
that are two
> generations
younger than my son i know that they must face with us, an
> incredible
world and protection from thought and understanding is not a
> protection
they need.
> p
Pam, Patricia,
David,
You're all
right. Bright high school kids are ready
for alot and they
should have a
chance at it. I think of all the Beats,
JK would be
wonderfully
approachable for them, and there is stuff that shouldn't
horrify the
school boards. "October in Railroad
Earth," unless I am
forgetting
something is a good example. If they are
ready to read any
serious fiction
they are certainly ready to read Jack, and if I remember
myself at all,
that was fairly young.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:53:01 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: lightly press on closed eyelids - see
colors.
=
>> who else
would have the gall & guts to drive a 1949
>>international
harvester acid trip from one side of the country to the
monitor doesn't track all us to our source
or we'll have to initiate them see below.
In our day, we
paranoid and
relaxed
because
1) Vietnam war,
&)
job-market going post-industrial and ?) ecology shudders
We awoke
the seriousness of life overwhelmed
personal issues ..now awash in
distractions?
Just lightly
press on closed eyelids and see colors.
Mike
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:07:14 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Triumph of the Will
> >>
> >>John
Mitchell, responding to Rinaldo
> >Leni
Riefenstahl is filming yr performance mates....
>
>
rinaldo--isn't the title something like Triumph of the Quills (Swills?
> Pills? Last Wills and Testaments? //John M.
Will you will or
will you won't you
be my baby?
We don't need no
stinking Wills.
If Hitler's Leni
is no longer available we might enlist Sergio Leone, I
see a redo of the
opening of Once Upon A Time in the West--ten minutes
of a lone cowboy
waiting in an empty trail station for the Sampas gang
to show up.
Thanks John for a
great laugh.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:51:30 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: something completely different
Bravo Pam, Pat,
James & all,
To deny a kid
access to literature is criminal. When I was a kid
the public
library was a nightmare that discouraged kids who were
curious. When
they sent me to the school shrink-and later, to still-
another shrink
for reading Camus at the age of 14; I knew that my
life was over in
our little town. I ran away at 15, and never looked
back. I lived in
dollar-a-night-flops in downtown Mpls. I recieved
the best
education that money could buy, at Oudal's Old & Rare Book
Shop. The owner,
Justin, was a kindhearted man who'd let me take books
home to read and
return. At the time, I was very much into the French
writers. I
started reading the books from A to Z/or from Apollinaire
to Zola. My very
first book that I wrote: TRIP, was published in France.
That was over
twenty years ago. After having some bad run-in
situations with
the local schools, I now teach my boys at home. They
are tested each
year through a program developed by Princton University,
and I am happy to
report that they finish in the top 90%
nationally. Right
now, we are studying the Greeks. The boys are 12 and
13 yrs. old.
Richard Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:09:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: KSB <ksbedit@SHORE.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
Comments: To:
stauffer@pacbell.net
At 09:42 PM
5/14/97 -0700, James Stauffer wrote:
>You're all
right. Bright high school kids are ready
for alot and they
>should have a
chance at it. I think of all the Beats,
JK would be
>wonderfully
approachable for them, and there is stuff that shouldn't
>horrify the
school boards. "October in Railroad
Earth," unless I am
>forgetting
something is a good example. If they are
ready to read any
>serious
fiction they are certainly ready to read Jack, and if I remember
>myself at all,
that was fairly young.
Just to pipe in
here....
I am an editor of
textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one
of the first
series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled
"New
Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used an excerpt
of "October
in Railroad Earth."
This particular
series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,
just
think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or
over in Taiwan
learned English by reading Kerouac!
Who'd a thunk it, eh?
Best,
Kathleen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:35:34 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@sprog.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "B. Sorensen"
<i12bent@SPROG.AUC.DK>
Subject: Solomon's Mishaps
Dear members of
BEAT-L,
Just when you
thought it was going to be another dreary day on the
Beat-Litigation
list, here is a posting with reference to literary works
as literary
works, and not objects to be fought over...
I haven't seen
much talk about Carl Solomon on the list, so maybe people
don't consider
him much of a beat. Or maybe people haven't read much of his
work. I'm posting
some of his pieces from More Mishaps (City Lights, 1968)
that concern
themselves with the Beat Generation, and with reading. Hope
you enjoy them
and that they may spark some debate:
PEOPLE OF THE
FIFTIES AND SIXTIES
Wild, crazy
bouncing around. "Dig everything", says Kerouac. They are
reading "The
Book of Changes." What changes can possibly occur after those
I have already
known, I wonder. William Carlos Williams' letter letter
comes to PSH,
"Life is not over in a day." This seems bullshit to me. My
life is over.
Much squawking, much yawking. Apparently it's not over.
Doctors, doctors,
patients, patients. Letters from poets, writing to poets.
Confused
conglomerations of visitors from various phases of my life.
Confused
rehabilitation courses, this, that, reading at the Metro, meeting
B.H. He is rehabilitated. He helped me when I
escaped. World collapsing a
dozen times over
and being rebuilt. Babies born, deaths in the family.
"Philosophy
of a Lunatic-Wit, Wisdom, And Folly" bought at the Gotham Book
Mart. For three
dollars or so and change. Take it seriously and you have
entrance to the
bliss and sorrow of the mentally ill. Don't go there any
more. No more
dangerous esoterica. This reading thing can be extremely
bad. Read a story
in a newspaper recently about a boy in the west who
bought and read
Camus' "L'Etranger," then shot somebody. Hadn't Leopold and
Loeb been reading
Nitszche? How many crimes have been indirectly caused by
writers unknown
to the reader? Wasn't Oswald reading "The Militant"? Wasn't
the man arrested
for attempting to blow up the Russian Embassy probably a
reader of some
right-wing paper? The pen is mightier than the sword. More
often than not it
directs the sword. Writing entails grave responsibilities.
Read "The Times"
and avoid folly. Read "The Post" and meet a nice, Jewish
girl looking for
a husband. Read "The News" and go out to the ball-park or
go fishing. Read
"The Daily Worker" and go underground. Read the "Enquirer"
for laughs. Read
the "East Village Other" and be hip and psychedelic. Read
Braille and speak
hesitantly but correctly. Read "War and Peace" and enter
another era. Read
the "Geographic" and bask under a tropical sun. Read
Proust when you
are in jail and have plenty of time. What are you reading
lately? This question probes exactly into one's
present frame of mind. The
book makes the
mood and the mood makes the book. Libraries win or lose
elections. Does
it help the identity problem to realize that the same man
may read
"Candy" one week and the Bible the next, and may be the one type
of reader the one
week and the other the next. What about "My Secret Life"
by Mao-Tze Tung?
REPORT FROM THE
BRONX
[...]
Obscenity has
become the only mode of expression pretty nearly. This is not
freedom of
speech, it is the triumph of subnormality over sex. What can we
expect from
social forces? Almost anything. A writer commits suicide almost
every day.
Burroughs is always leaving for London, Ginsberg is always in
California,
Kerouac is always in Florida. The literari are always on the
move and it is
useless to attempt to keep up with them. The only thing to
do seems to be to
keep gazing sidelong at TV. The TV is more effective than
the analyst. I
have tried both, and have concluded that what we want is
FACTS. Not
subjective fantasy or interpersonal gibberish, but the cold hard
objective facts
that exist apart from psychotic aberration.
CONFUSED,
GUTTERAL MUMBLING OF A MAN WHO HAS READ TOO MUCH
Kafka,
Strindberg,
Jack London,
Gogol,
Mike Gold,
Edward Everett Hale,
Heywood Broun,
Westbrook Pegler,
Jacques Vache,
Henry Miller,
Stalin,
Mao-Tze Tung,
Hitler,
Mussolini,
William Buckley,
Lawrence Ferlinghetti,
These and many,many more,
And what have I gained in the way of
everlasting wisdom?
Nothing.
Literature has nothing more to offer one
than the many blank faces one
meets on the
subway..... it is of course only a way of klling time or a
subject for
conversation. Is this giving away the game?
But cannot this be said about
anything......baseball just so many
batted balls?
Where is what I am looking for? And is there anything I am
looking for?
Let us say: I read to keep my hands
occupied......to keep from
masturbating.I am
possessed of language and have nothing to say.
Why not collect postage stamps, dirty
jokes, or puns?
Drinking endless cups of coffee or entering
a pie-eating contest makes
about as much
sense.
I am somewhat disappointed in Ferlinghetti.
The true Dada would have
been to have gone
across Russia on horseback.
BON MOT
If you lose contact with the Zeitgeist,
never fear. You may still have
contact with the
poltergeist.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The last one is
probably my favourite. But generally I find the wit
displayed here
appealing, if somewhat desperate. The rambling attempts of a
man trying to
come to terms with the fact that the world perceives him as a
lunatic, whereas
he perceives the world as lunatic. I'm interested in the
slippery valences
of writing and writers in Solomon's texts. It's as if he
is personally
offended by the fact that writers put pen on page, and yet do
not communicate
anything of wisdom and worth. Is this just an early
statement of a
well-knowm postmodern symptom, or a reflection of Solomon's
own low
self-esteem - or IS he so out of contact with the sixties polter-
sorry Zeitgeist
as he makes out to be..?
Regards,
bs
Department of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
http://www.hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.uk.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:28:07 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
KSB wrote:
>
> At 09:42 PM
5/14/97 -0700, James Stauffer wrote:
>
> >You're
all right. Bright high school kids are
ready for alot and they
> >should
have a chance at it. I think of all the
Beats, JK would be
>
>wonderfully approachable for them, and there is stuff that shouldn't
> >horrify
the school boards. "October in
Railroad Earth," unless I am
>
>forgetting something is a good example.
If they are ready to read any
> >serious
fiction they are certainly ready to read Jack, and if I remember
> >myself
at all, that was fairly young.
>
> Just to pipe
in here....
> I am an
editor of textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one
> of the first
series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled
> "New
Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used an excerpt
> of
"October in Railroad Earth."
>
> This
particular series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,
> just
think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or
> over in
Taiwan learned English by reading Kerouac!
Who'd a thunk it, eh?
>
> Best,
> Kathleen
What kind of
teaching materials were provided concerning Kerouac and
Railroad earth to
assist in instruction? That may not be
something
handy. just a sense of the kinds of things would be
helpful. it seems
one of the
troubles with encouraging new literature sources is that
teachers who aren't
familiar and don't have available background
material aren't
comfortable using them.
What is the name
of the Reader? Perhaps it is one that
could be
encouraged to
local schools .... Anything more on this
might be useful.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:51:58 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Something completely different #2
i enjoyed reading
the varied posts from varied voices on the lists. it
seems that the
first thread (something #1) is partially devoted to
whether students
can handle the material, whether high schools should be
burned and
whatnot. this seems a relevant area to
question in the
process of
determining whether to work for "incorporation" (rather than
pushing) beat
litearture into the high school curriculum.
so far, the
suggestions of "railroad earth" and "on the road" have been
mentioned. there are some who feel that other materials
might not make
it by the school
boards. that is probably a concern. it is more likely
that one would be
working towards the textbook editors at first.
so I'm asking a
second kind of question in "something completely
different
#2". Assuming, that we did want to
put forth some effort in
this direction,
what besides "Railroad Earth" would be recommended
suggestions to
encourage being excerpted into Survey Type Readers of
American
Literature to provide a "taste" of this rich material.
i seem to agree
that secondary literature courses beyond the initial
survey should be
highly optional. Besides ON ROUTE, what
beat materials
seem possible to
get on optional readings lists. This
question probably
involves
considering community standards a bit more.
Is Kerouac the
only possible
introduction the students could get their hands on in the
classroom? It seems that Burroughs' material unless
excerpted into a
Burroughs' reader
for this purpose would be nearly impossible to get
past the moral
guard. i'd be interested in others
opinions on what the
best types in
each of these categories might be.
i appreciate
y'alls response. this is not an attempt
to jump off the
bridge at Big Sur
concerning the "Something #1" thread.
I'll take some
time over the
next day and begin to think more actively about all the
comments and
suggestions made and continue to post to that thread as
well. i am only attempting to provide two different
threads of focus on
this matter.
david rhaesa
salina kansas
not sure if i'm
persona non-grata at the high school anymore or not.
told the
principal he was running a prison and not a school (a result of
a bit of mania
and having read too much Ivan Illich on education; and
because it was
TRUE). i think i'm accepted in certain
parts of the
building to do
some local investigation.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:58:05 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: The korror of hen foing gurthur
>Zach,
>
>I fail to see
how the buccolic Wisconsin bashes you describe (which
>sound great
to me) are fundamentally different than the Human Be-In.
>
>Everything is
the same. Everything is different.
>
>J Stauffer
>
>
in italy the
lotto game is a must!
BARI 57 27 05 30 42
CAGLIARI 52 19 18 85 73
FIRENZE 52 23 90 51 73
GENOVA 85 43 71 48 22
MILANO 16 55 57 10 12
NAPOLI 80 06 71 78 26
PALERMO 53 19 87 44 55
ROMA 31 51 54 81 08
TORINO 46 86 37 18 02
VENEZIA 79 86 49 73 88
yrs beet
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:08:04 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Solomon's Mishaps
Comments: To:
i12bent@sprog.auc.dk
B. Sorensen
wrote:
>
> Dear members
of BEAT-L,
>
> Just when
you thought it was going to be another dreary day on the
>
Beat-Litigation list, here is a posting with reference to literary works
> as literary
works, and not objects to be fought over...
>
> I haven't
seen much talk about Carl Solomon on the list, so maybe people
> don't
consider him much of a beat. Or maybe people haven't read much of his
> work. I'm
posting some of his pieces from More Mishaps (City Lights, 1968)
> that concern
themselves with the Beat Generation, and with reading. Hope
> you enjoy
them and that they may spark some debate:
>
> PEOPLE OF
THE FIFTIES AND SIXTIES
>
> Wild, crazy
bouncing around. "Dig everything", says Kerouac. They are
> reading
"The Book of Changes." What changes can possibly occur after those
> I have
already known, I wonder. William Carlos Williams' letter letter
> comes to
PSH, "Life is not over in a day." This seems bullshit to me. My
> life is
over. Much squawking, much yawking. Apparently it's not over.
> Doctors,
doctors, patients, patients. Letters from poets, writing to poets.
> Confused
conglomerations of visitors from various phases of my life.
> Confused
rehabilitation courses, this, that, reading at the Metro, meeting
> B.H. He is rehabilitated. He helped me when I
escaped. World collapsing a
> dozen times
over and being rebuilt. Babies born, deaths in the family.
>
"Philosophy of a Lunatic-Wit, Wisdom, And Folly" bought at the Gotham
Book
> Mart. For
three dollars or so and change. Take it seriously and you have
> entrance to
the bliss and sorrow of the mentally ill. Don't go there any
> more. No
more dangerous esoterica. This reading thing can be extremely
> bad. Read a
story in a newspaper recently about a boy in the west who
> bought and
read Camus' "L'Etranger," then shot somebody. Hadn't Leopold and
> Loeb been
reading Nitszche? How many crimes have been indirectly caused by
> writers
unknown to the reader? Wasn't Oswald reading "The Militant"? Wasn't
> the man
arrested for attempting to blow up the Russian Embassy probably a
> reader of
some right-wing paper? The pen is mightier than the sword. More
> often than
not it directs the sword. Writing entails grave responsibilities.
> Read
"The Times" and avoid folly. Read "The Post" and meet a
nice, Jewish
> girl looking
for a husband. Read "The News" and go out to the ball-park or
> go fishing.
Read "The Daily Worker" and go underground. Read the
"Enquirer"
> for laughs.
Read the "East Village Other" and be hip and psychedelic. Read
> Braille and
speak hesitantly but correctly. Read "War and Peace" and enter
> another era.
Read the "Geographic" and bask under a tropical sun. Read
> Proust when
you are in jail and have plenty of time. What are you reading
> lately? This question probes exactly into one's
present frame of mind. The
> book makes
the mood and the mood makes the book. Libraries win or lose
> elections.
Does it help the identity problem to realize that the same man
> may read
"Candy" one week and the Bible the next, and may be the one type
> of reader
the one week and the other the next. What about "My Secret Life"
> by Mao-Tze
Tung?
>
> REPORT FROM
THE BRONX
>
> [...]
>
> Obscenity
has become the only mode of expression pretty nearly. This is not
> freedom of
speech, it is the triumph of subnormality over sex. What can we
> expect from
social forces? Almost anything. A writer commits suicide almost
> every day.
Burroughs is always leaving for London, Ginsberg is always in
> California,
Kerouac is always in Florida. The literari are always on the
> move and it
is useless to attempt to keep up with them. The only thing to
> do seems to
be to keep gazing sidelong at TV. The TV is more effective than
> the analyst.
I have tried both, and have concluded that what we want is
> FACTS. Not
subjective fantasy or interpersonal gibberish, but the cold hard
> objective
facts that exist apart from psychotic aberration.
>
> CONFUSED,
GUTTERAL MUMBLING OF A MAN WHO HAS READ TOO MUCH
>
> Kafka,
> Strindberg,
> Jack London,
> Gogol,
> Mike Gold,
> Edward Everett Hale,
> Heywood Broun,
> Westbrook Pegler,
> Jacques Vache,
> Henry Miller,
> Stalin,
> Mao-Tze Tung,
> Hitler,
> Mussolini,
> William Buckley,
> Lawrence Ferlinghetti,
> These and many,many more,
>
> And what have I gained in the way of
everlasting wisdom?
> Nothing.
> Literature has nothing more to offer one
than the many blank faces one
> meets on the
subway..... it is of course only a way of klling time or a
> subject for
conversation. Is this giving away the game?
> But cannot this be said about
anything......baseball just so many
> batted
balls? Where is what I am looking for? And is there anything I am
> looking for?
> Let us say: I read to keep my hands
occupied......to keep from
>
masturbating.I am possessed of language and have nothing to say.
> Why not collect postage stamps, dirty jokes,
or puns?
> Drinking endless cups of coffee or
entering a pie-eating contest makes
> about as
much sense.
> I am somewhat disappointed in
Ferlinghetti. The true Dada would have
> been to have
gone across Russia on horseback.
>
> BON MOT
>
> If you lose contact with the Zeitgeist,
never fear. You may still have
> contact with
the poltergeist.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The last one
is probably my favourite. But generally I find the wit
> displayed
here appealing, if somewhat desperate. The rambling attempts of a
> man trying
to come to terms with the fact that the world perceives him as a
> lunatic,
whereas he perceives the world as lunatic. I'm interested in the
> slippery
valences of writing and writers in Solomon's texts. It's as if he
> is
personally offended by the fact that writers put pen on page, and yet do
> not
communicate anything of wisdom and worth. Is this just an early
> statement of
a well-knowm postmodern symptom, or a reflection of Solomon's
> own low
self-esteem - or IS he so out of contact with the sixties polter-
> sorry
Zeitgeist as he makes out to be..?
>
> Regards,
>
> bs
>
> Department
of Languages and Intercultural Studies
> Aalborg University,
Denmark
>
http://www.hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.uk.html
i found this very
interesting. seemed to be able to read
it any of a
number of ways at
one time. The writer mad b/c he reads
and the world
doesn't. the writer angry b/c he reads and the world
doesn't. the
writer believes
the world mad b/c he reads and they don't.
the writer
angry at the
world bc he reads and they don't. and
all these readings
can happen at
once very easily. to the point that
halfway through a
line it seems
pure parody and the next moment it seems serious as hell.
hmm. interesting
thoughts.
as to the
madness. it reminded me of something my
ex-wife gave me that
i'm paraphrasing
from long term memory:
"They said I
was mad and I sad they were mad and damn them they outvoted
me :)" -- Ibsen (i think)
i got that from a
different reading of it the fourth kind (i think it
was fourth, maybe
third) in Hesse's essay on the different types of
reading. my mind left the text and the words pushed MY
thinking rather
than an attempt
to understand the AUTHOR's thinking.
but it is early
and not quite done with a first cup of coffee or
anything so this
all may come along as so much gibberish.
if it gets
too gibberishstic
please remind me to take my medications... :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:25:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: AG's grave??
Will there be a
grave for Allen ginsberg?
If so, where?
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:55:47 +0200
Reply-To: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach
<moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: The gorror of fen koing hurthur
In-Reply-To: <v03007801af9f47910f44@[206.190.9.125]>
hi zach
cool, although
this isnt much of a big story i guess it is beat as hell
and from the way
you told it, i guess it has had a great philosophical
impact
on your life
--------------sincerely
moritz rossbach
saarbruecken, germany
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
..and i tell you things that you allready know,
so you can say:
"i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
-Henry
Rollins: Liar
On Wed, 14 May
1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
> i've always
been able to keep my finger on it in public, and i've been in
> very public
places with a head full of cid: movie theaters, mini-golf
> courses,
state parks, malls, grocery stores. ppl think i'm bizarre when i'm
> straight so
they don't think anything of it when i'm not...the only odd
> experience
i've had:
> laying on a
rock high high up on a cliff in a state park with two friends,
> twisted like
crazy, exchanging sunglasses because the sun looks different
> through each
pair; a father with three little girls comes up and sits maybe
> 2 feet away
from us. this is a secluded, somewhat dangerous rock to be on.
> these kids
are hoppin up and down, the father's looking at us weird and
> taking
pictures of his girls...my 2 friends freak out immediately, going
> off
somewhere; i laid back and stared at the sun till the kids and dad
> left, then
my friends start babbling about how fucking weird that was, so i
> went down to
the lake and sat down in the water till it was just up under
> my lips,
till i turned into a prune. those kids had gotten to me and it was
> a little
hard to deal with, as i'd been up for four days and had a fresh 2
> hits in me,
so i needed the relax time...
> i just keep
in mind that everyone no matter what their state, is
> essentially
human. and if you think really hard, you can feel that other
> humanity.
it's the only thing i've experienced i'd actually call
> 'profound',
and it's happened both sober and otherwise....
>
> etc etc
>
> zach
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:20:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Attila the Hun
May 15,
1997
Paul Maher
writes:
"I don't undestand why you think
you are untouchable .... I then
could not ever
take issue with your work should I find a reason to without
fear of violent
reprisal? ... I have one published thesis in a scholarly
journal that I am
proud of but if one was to take issue with it I wouldn't
be
offended."
Dear Paul,
What's been going on here is not people
criticizing my work, my
interpretations
of Kerouac, my literary criticism, etc.
It's been ONE
PERSONAL ATTACK
AFTER ANOTHER. I'm out for money and
power, I'm a glory
hunter, I'm too
cheap to donate to a good cause, I'm a "nut," etc. Or they
lie outright,
like Attila last night claiming I have nothing to talk about
but the Kerouac
lawsuit, and claiming I "demanded" to be invited to Lowell
by Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac! I never even
contacted Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!--ever,
in its 9 year history. The only thing I
complained about,
here and in some
of my writings, was the fact that THEY HAD ACTIVELY TRIED
TO STOP ME FROM
COMING TO LOWELL when Brad Parker sought to have me come and
speak.
It's as bad as Martha Mayo telling the
Lowell police you stole the
missing letters
with not a shred of evidence to back her up.
When people
keep making
off-the-wall charges like that, it makes you wonder what their
game really is.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:44:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Attila the Hun
In a message
dated 97-05-15 00:24:37 EDT, you write:
<< Didn't
you guys ever read the rules of fair fightin'?
One against
one, and at least a week to recuperate. That was the rule in my old
neighborhood.
Nick the Greek
>>
Hey Nick The
Greek:
Why should we
start being fair now? I'm from New York.
Attila the Hun
I never fought a
fight I couldn't lose.
You can say that
again.
Soitenly!
My sediments
exactly.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:17:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: something completely different [Naked
Lunch in French]
In-Reply-To:
<970514232850_1556996347@emout19.mail.aol.com>
On Wed, 14 May
1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
> My mother,
Mary Beach and Claude Pelieu are considered the best translators
> of the Beats
into French. Their translation of Bob
Kaufman made him more
> famous in
France than in America.
> Pam Plymell
I once saw a 1964
edition of Naked Lunch translated into French by Eric
Kahane, and when
I took it home and to compare it to the English, I
discovered it had
all kinds of omissions (and even a few additions!)
(There was only 1
Steely Dan, for example, instead of 3 like there is
supposed to be.)
Do you know if NL has been redone in French since then?
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:39:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
>Just to pipe
in here....
>I am an
editor of textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one
>of the first
series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled
>"New
Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used an excerpt
>of
"October in Railroad Earth."
>
>This
particular series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,
>just
think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or
>over in
Taiwan learned English by reading Kerouac!
Who'd a thunk it, eh?
>
>Best,
>Kathleen
This would have
to be for very advanced ESL students.
Most native
american speakers would have trouble with this let alone a ESL
student overseas.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:41:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
May 15, 1997
Mr. David Rhaesa
wrote:
"Once again, you're lumping from
point A to point Q in a
conspiratorial
mode. Frankly, I don't understand WHY
you feel a need to
incorporate these
conspiratorial arguments into your discourse."
Dear David,
Some all-inclusive conspiracy theories
are wacko--like Oliver Stone
having everyone
from the mafia to the CIA to Fidel Castro conspiring to kill
Kennedy.
That doesn't mean smalltime
conspiracies don't sometimes exist. The
word is in the
English language for a reason.
A lot of the stuff on the Beat-List
recently, a lot of the charges
against me and
Jan, had to come directly from Sampas.
For example, the matter of Jan Kerouac
selling her mother's warrant
for child support
was not public knowledge. It was known
only to Jan, me,
the dealer, and
the Sampases and their lawyer, George Tobia, who purchased
it. It was never in a news story or recounted at
any Kerouac event.
So how did it get up here if it wasn't
fed to someone by Sampas?
Curiously yours, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:12:17 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> May 15, 1997
>
> Mr. David
Rhaesa wrote:
> "Once again, you're lumping from
point A to point Q in a
>
conspiratorial mode. Frankly, I don't
understand WHY you feel a need to
> incorporate
these conspiratorial arguments into your discourse."
>
> Dear David,
>
> Some all-inclusive conspiracy theories
are wacko--like Oliver Stone
> having
everyone from the mafia to the CIA to Fidel Castro conspiring to kill
> Kennedy.
> That doesn't mean smalltime
conspiracies don't sometimes exist. The
> word is in
the English language for a reason.
> A lot of the stuff on the Beat-List
recently, a lot of the charges
> against me
and Jan, had to come directly from Sampas.
> For example, the matter of Jan Kerouac
selling her mother's warrant
> for child
support was not public knowledge. It was
known only to Jan, me,
> the dealer,
and the Sampases and their lawyer, George Tobia, who purchased
> it. It was never in a news story or recounted at
any Kerouac event.
> So how did it get up here if it wasn't
fed to someone by Sampas?
> Curiously yours, Gerry Nicosia
i don't know how
the person found out about that. i am
certainly
ignorant. but it might be that Sampas just talked to
some people about
what was going on
in his life rather than plotted or conspired.
i
imagine that you
can only be certain about your knowledge that you
didn't tell the
person.
but that is
beside the point. even if Sampas told
someone about that
subject that he
"shouldn't have" (i'm not sure why he can't talk to or
have friends), it
doesn't mean that every action and every point in the
chain from A to Q
is conspiratorial in nature.
at any event, you
have shown your true colors. i wasn't
certain
before. there is a reason for your choice of the
rhetorical devices and
it is that you
seem to BELIEVE in your heart and soul that there is a
conspiracy afoot
in this matter.
i don't
understand why, even if you believe it, you choose to
incorporate it as
the subtextual theme of so much of your information.
frankly, i've
found Oliver Stone's notions far more compelling. i hope
for the sake of
the archives that those with power on this issue are
able to read past
your polluted rhetoric and make judgements on the
merits of whether
or not the Kerouac archive ought become a public
treasure.
i can definitely
report that i am and am in no way part of any
conspiracy in
this matter relating to John Sampas.
and photocopiers
are hell ....
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:46:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: TRIUMPH OF THE WILL
"...ten
minutes of a lone cowboy waiting
in an empty trail
station for the Sampas gang to show up."
--James Stauffer
Dear James:
It's been over two weeks, and I'm still
waiting. My grub's done run
out, and all I've
glimpsed so far are a few outriders.
(P.S. Leni Riefenstahl beats Sergio
Leone any day.)
Gerhard Von Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:57:08 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: AG's grave??
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 May 1997 09:25:31 -0400
from <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Yes, part of
Allen's ashes will be buried in his father's plot in Paterson.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:17:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Coming soon:
The Kerouac
Quarterly Vol. 1, No. 2
Featuring:
The complete list
of the Kerouac Archives at The New York Public Library (8
pages worth)..
Ellis Amburn
Interview about his new Kerouac bio
More on Some Of
the Dharma
More on the
making of Kicks Joy Darkness
A list of 10
books off of Kerouac's archival shelves
And more.....
To order...please
send $5.00 (USA) $7.00 (overseas and Canada) to:
The Kerouac
Quarterly
34 North Rd. #7
Chelmsford, MA.
Also can be
purchased from Water Row Books E-mail
me privately for more info.
Vol.1, No. 1 can
be purchased from Water Row Books as well...Thanks, Regards
to all, Paul of
The Kerouac Quarterly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:03:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
..... you seem to
BELIEVE in your heart and soul that there is a
>conspiracy
afoot in this matter.....
>
>i don't
understand why, even if you believe it, you choose to
>incorporate
it as the subtextual theme of so much of your information.....
>
>david rhaesa
>
Dave, May 15, 1997
"Conspiracy" is your word of
choice, not mine.
What I've said over and over is that
Mr. Sampas is doing everything
he can to control
the spin that is being put on his handling of the Kerouac
archive. He has personally killed at least one news
story that I know of
(in the SAN
FRANCISCO REVIEW OF BOOKS, attested to by publisher Don Paul).
He has even
attempted to interfere in my court case with John Lash, by
objecting to the
University of Texas that its archive director shouldn't
have sent an
affidavit to the Albuquerque court. That
is documentable, not
airy-fairy
speculation. If Mr. Sampas will threaten
a publisher and
interfere in
another man's court case, what makes you think he won't give
his friends a few
choice weapons against me here on the Beat-List?
Still curious,
Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:06:00 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: AG's grave??
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 May 1997 13:57:08 EDT from
<WXGBC@CUNYVM>
Replying to my
own text, I'm not exactly sure now that the location of the grav
e is in
Paterson. But wherever Louis is buried,
that's where you'll find 1/3 o
f Allen's ashes.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:11:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: K Sands Boehmer
<ksbedit@SHORE.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
>>Just to
pipe in here....
>>I am an
editor of textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one
>>of the
first series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled
>>"New
Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used an excerpt
>>of
"October in Railroad Earth."
>>
>>This
particular series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,
>>just
think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or
>>over in
Taiwan learned English by reading Kerouac!
Who'd a thunk it, eh?
>>
>>Best,
>>Kathleen
>
>This would
have to be for very advanced ESL students.
>
>Most native
american speakers would have trouble with this let alone a ESL
>student
overseas.
Note that I said
that the excerpt appeared in Level 6 of a six-level course.
:-)
Level 6 books
never sold as well as Level 1 (naturally).
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:18:36 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: The Beat experience CDROM 1995 edition
cari amici beat,
"The Red Hot
Organization" has created in 1995 a
CD ROM called
"THE BEAT EXPERIENCE", $39.95, i have seen
the software in a
bookstore/musicstore,
this cdrom is
sold by VOYAGER 1 Bridge St
Irvington NY
10533-9919, have someone listen 'bout
this cdrom,
in yr opinion
it's a worth purcase, please tell me,
'cuz of i'm
really a beetle (what a hot day today!,
here in italy!)
yrs Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:36:42 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Flammable
I Vagadondi del
Dharma.
A Han-Sahan (who
is?)
1.
Saltato su un
treno merci che partiva da Los Angeles in pieno
mezzogiorno d'una
giornata di fine settembre del 1955 presi
posto su un carro
aperto e mi straiai col mio sacco a spalla
sotto la testa a
gambe accavallate e contemplai le nuvole mentre
correvamo a nord
verso Santa Barbara. Era un treno locale
e la mia
intenzione era di dormire quella notte sulla spiaggia
di Santa Barbara
e salire la mattina dopo su un altro treno locale
fino a San Luis
Obispo oppure su un merci espresso che
arrivava
direttamente a San Francisco alle sette di sera.
All'altezza di
Camarillo, dove Charlie Parker, impazzito, era stato
ricoverato e
restituito alla normalita',....
ma quello che incontri but what you meet
h realmente un'esperienza? is really
an experience?
Parker h rosso Parker is red
come un crepuscolo like a twilight
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:47:37 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: han on rye
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970515193642.00688c88@pop.gpnet.it>
rinaldo(beet of
little vegetation)
is han-sahan
anything like han-shan ("cold mountain")??
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:13:17 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Re: TRIUMPH OF THE WILL
At 10:46 AM
5/15/97 -0700, you wrote:
> "...ten
minutes of a lone cowboy waiting
>in an empty
trail station for the Sampas gang to show up."
>
--James Stauffer
>
>Dear James:
>
> It's been over two weeks, and I'm still
waiting. My grub's done run
>out, and all
I've glimpsed so far are a few outriders.
Needs food?
> (P.S. Leni Riefenstahl beats Sergio
Leone any day.)
> Gerhard Von Nicosia
If only the talented maker of
that film, _Triumph of the Will_
had been assigned the even more
"manly" project:
"The Triumph of Honest
Knowledge"
(a work always in progress, and ever
to be so)
- that would really be an accomplishment
for 1,000 years
Such a film would have to invent new
communication forms.
_Triumph of the Will_ enabled a doomed
project to advance
and emphasized methods known in
Machievelli's time and before.
The appeal to emotion, as in
_Triumph of the Will_,
is an easy way to gain
temporary hypnotic
control of an
audience....but as they later
found,
what's
really needed are people who can
think, and honestly discuss;
at
which time the
problems often
seem to change as
they come into
better focus. The
main problem
we can solve usually
isn't
"them"
but how to make the most
of what we
already have
which sometimes
means
admitting
"th
ey" too are
overlooking
the next
advance.
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:18:51 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> ..... you
seem to BELIEVE in your heart and soul that there is a
>
>conspiracy afoot in this matter.....
> >
> >i don't
understand why, even if you believe it, you choose to
>
>incorporate it as the subtextual theme of so much of your information.....
> >
> >david
rhaesa
> >
>
> Dave, May 15, 1997
>
> "Conspiracy" is your word of
choice, not mine.
> What I've said over and over is that
Mr. Sampas is doing everything
> he can to
control the spin that is being put on his handling of the Kerouac
>
archive. He has personally killed at
least one news story that I know of
> (in the SAN
FRANCISCO REVIEW OF BOOKS, attested to by publisher Don Paul).
> He has even
attempted to interfere in my court case with John Lash, by
> objecting to
the University of Texas that its archive director shouldn't
> have sent an
affidavit to the Albuquerque court. That
is documentable, not
> airy-fairy
speculation. If Mr. Sampas will threaten
a publisher and
> interfere in
another man's court case, what makes you think he won't give
> his friends
a few choice weapons against me here on the Beat-List?
> Still curious,
> Gerry
you just don't
get it. you really don't. can't
understand it myself.
why do you throw
innuendo at everything. why can't you
talk straight to
some people at
least some of the time.
you just don't
get it. you really don't. can't
understand it myself.
why does the
computer happen to throw innuendo into everything you write
on the
beatlist. why can't your computer talk
to my computer at least
once in awhile in
something of a straight manner.
i might have to
start capitalizing letters. i might!
two posts ago,
you brought up oliver stone, you commented that this
situation is not
like an oliver stone but a real one, you reminded me
and other readers
that the word conspiracy is in the dictionary, then
you continued to
throw conspiratorial claims and Now ....
now now now
you clip all of
that away and say i'm the one whose suggesting
conspiracy.
MISTER. i was being nice.
i was trying to
save you from your own fingers tendencies to shoot
unnecessary shots
that are poisoning your pen.
i really really
feel stupid. cuz for quite awhile i
really respected
you despite the
innuendo you throw so quickly as a scholar.
for quite
awhile i really
thought that you were a person that cared about these
matters.
i'm pretty much
convinced right now ... and hopefully it will change ..
that you are a
very very bitter man who cares more about throwing crap
at people than
about anything else.
sincerely,
Mister David Race
Rhaesa
p.s. read while listeining to a touch of Johnny
Cash at midnight.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:43:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: Flammable
a is not a
z is not z
everything in
between is hogwash
on a shore of
butter
red
jerm
to andy
----------
: From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject:
Flammable
: Date: Thursday,
May 15, 1997 12:36 PM
:
: I Vagadondi del
Dharma.
:
: A Han-Sahan
(who is?)
:
: 1.
: Saltato su un
treno merci che partiva da Los Angeles in pieno
: mezzogiorno
d'una giornata di fine settembre del 1955 presi
: posto su un
carro aperto e mi straiai col mio sacco a spalla
: sotto la testa
a gambe accavallate e contemplai le nuvole mentre
: correvamo a
nord verso Santa Barbara. Era un treno locale
: e la mia
intenzione era di dormire quella notte sulla spiaggia
: di Santa
Barbara e salire la mattina dopo su un altro treno locale
: fino a San Luis
Obispo oppure su un merci espresso che
: arrivava
direttamente a San Francisco alle sette di sera.
: All'altezza di
Camarillo, dove Charlie Parker, impazzito, era stato
: ricoverato e
restituito alla normalita',....
:
: ma quello che incontri but what you meet
: h realmente
un'esperienza? is really an experience?
: Parker h rosso Parker is red
: come un crepuscolo like a twilight
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:54:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: andrew szymczyk <trent@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: school and literature...
hmmm,
seeing that there's a lot of
talk about school
programs, i feel that i need to budge
in. i'm a junior in
high school right now, and not too long
ago my american
lit. teacher became aware of my
interest in the beat gen.
she already knew that i was reading
more in my spare
time than most of the kiddies my age,
but she was still
a little put off because of her
experience with the beats.
she has never been a fan of kerouac
because of his
apparent machoism to her, and other
than that she
really hadn't dealt with more beat than
she had to. i
tried to talk her into teaching a
little from that era, and
she complied by promising me that she'd
find some
appropriate poems that could be taught
to the whole
class, but other than that she feels
that her job would
be in danger. i must agree because there's just so
much that the small community in which
i live can
handle.
but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me
from delving farther into the
literature.... in fact, she likes
to see and hear about what i'm reading,
as long as it's
done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the
beats are mentioned in class and the
students are
given fair awareness of them then i'll
be happy.
as a side note, we were made to
watch a film
strip on walt whitman a little earlier in
the year. the film
started going off on whom whitman has
influenced
throughout the years, and as a picture
of kerouac
surfaced on the screen i threw my hands
up in joy. i
really don't think that anyone else in
the class knew
what i was so happy about, but i
suppose that that's
their loss.
andrew
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:21:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
In-Reply-To:
<970514232850_1556996347@emout19.mail.aol.com>
On Wed, 14 May
1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
> In a message
dated 97-05-14 21:02:28 EDT, you write:
>
> << an
admirable cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
> >idea. at a high school level, at least in
terms of my
>
>for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing highschool
> >experience, >>
>
> At the age
of 15 I heard my mother start reading out loud and translating The
> Ticket That
Exploded to her French lover, Claude Pelieu.
I also heard her
> translating
Reality Sandwiches. By the time I was 16
I had met AG, LF, Bob
> Kaufman, and
all the Beats living in SF including Charles Plymell. I can't
> say that it
changed my life because it was the way my life was.
> I don't
believe it has ever hurt a teenager to read good literature.
> My mother,
Mary Beach and Claude Pelieu are considered the best translators
> of the Beats
into French. Their translation of Bob
Kaufman made him more
> famous in
France than in America.
> Pam Plymell
>
hello evryone,
I would never say
that highschoolers should not read Beat lit; but i
don't think it
should necessarily be TAUGHT in highschool.
I am currently a
senior in highschool. i became familiar with Kerouac
outside of
school, and Beat literature is not included in any of the
English classes
at my school, although a few novels are listed as the
suggestions for
assignments in a couple classes at my school. i have done
papers for school
on Kerouac and Ginsberg on rare occasions when students
are allowed to
choose, with the approval of the teacher, their topics.
of the teachers
at my school, though dont get me wrong they are all very
interested in
literature, i don't think any of them would be able to do a
good job with the
beats.
based only on my
experience, beat writing could only be effectively used
in the active
coursework if the methods of teaching were drastically
different
(improved?). for example, less forced, more subjective, free,
whatever.
nevertheless, i
think its great for teenagers to read any good or
interesting
works. but On the Road cannot be treated thev same as stuff i
normally read in
school because most of my teachers just don't get On the
Road.
(i have more to
say but cant right now)
respectfully,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
who was
instructed last year that: the White Whale respresents all that is
paradoxical,
unpredictable, and uncontrolable in nature; and if one tries
to say that it
signifies something else, he or she is flat out wrong!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 04:28:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: George Thomas Finch
<finchgeo@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: han on rye
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> rinaldo(beet
of little vegetation)
> is han-sahan
anything like han-shan ("cold mountain")??
> yrs
> derek
I believe so yes,
may be a mis-romaization of the Chinese..:)
'G
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:31:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: school and literature...
In-Reply-To: <9705151912.AA06879@jane.penn.com>
hello,
at my school,
only passing refernece to the beats is made; like, "and in
the fifties,
there was a group of people called beatnicks, who would sit
in coffeshops and
read poetry while beating bongo drums." And thats it.
in the library,
Ginsberg's Howl and The Fall of America are the only
books by him
there, and they are categorized as RESERVED, which means
that they are
kept in a shelf behind the checkout counter. "Fallof
America" is
missing. Howl rests there. Because its reserved, it can only
be taken out for
one night. Reserved books are the form of
mini-censorship
our school engages in, i guess so that no innocent child
brosing through
the poetry section will come across any "indecent" work.
The Reserved
books include Tim Leary's Flashbacks as well as Scietific
books about
drugs. if there was more beat literature at my school, itd be
there too, but --
adios, soory if
this is boring,
Eric
On Thu, 15 May
1997, andrew szymczyk wrote:
> hmmm,
>
> seeing that there's a lot of
talk about school
> programs, i feel that i need to budge
in. i'm a junior in
> high school right now, and not too
long ago my american
> lit. teacher became aware of my interest
in the beat gen.
> she already knew that i was reading
more in my spare
> time than most of the kiddies my age,
but she was still
> a little put off because of her
experience with the beats.
> she has never been a fan of kerouac
because of his
> apparent machoism to her, and other
than that she
> really hadn't dealt with more beat
than she had to. i
> tried to talk her into teaching a
little from that era, and
> she complied by promising me that
she'd find some
> appropriate poems that could be taught
to the whole
> class, but other than that she feels
that her job would
> be in danger. i must agree because there's just so
> much that the small community in which
i live can
> handle. but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me
> from delving farther into the
literature.... in fact, she likes
> to see and hear about what i'm reading,
as long as it's
> done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the
> beats are mentioned in class and the
students are
> given fair awareness of them then i'll
be happy.
>
> as a side note, we were made
to watch a film
> strip on walt whitman a little earlier
in the year. the film
> started going off on whom whitman has
influenced
> throughout the years, and as a picture
of kerouac
> surfaced on the screen i threw my
hands up in joy. i
> really don't think that anyone else in
the class knew
> what i was so happy about, but i
suppose that that's
> their loss.
>
>
>
andrew
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:32:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: school and literature... -Reply
RIGHT ON ANDREW!
THAT'S IT! Worse case scenario, a few people in class
are bored with
the Beat Gen.
works and yawn. Best case scenario,
people like you get
turned on to the
power of lit. (Hands are thrown in the air and silent
screams of joy
are let go!) I had a similar experience
with HS teacher
that turned me on
to lit. that wasn't being taught in class.
This may
sound goofy, BUT
SHE CHANGED MY LIFE. Another goofy
comment:
Literature
doesn't seem to be for everyone. True
quote from a friend of
mine: "You read??? Readin's dumb!" OK..., I say.
His interests lay
elsewhere. So what?
People on this list dig reading and writing...it's
in our blood and
a part of our everyday life. It was a
part of me when
I was a high
school student. It took the time and
attention of a
special teacher
to nurture and develop what was to become a passion (and
way of
life.) Kudos to your teacher for having
the guts to step outside
the classroom
curriculum and recognize your passion.
My best,
-Mark
MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>>>
andrew szymczyk <trent@JANE.PENN.COM> 05/15/97 02:54pm >>>
hmmm,
seeing that there's a lot of
talk about school
programs, i feel that i need to budge
in. i'm a junior in
high school right now, and not too long
ago my american
lit. teacher became aware of my
interest in the beat gen.
she already knew that i was reading
more in my spare
time than most of the kiddies my age,
but she was still
a little put off because of her
experience with the beats.
she has never been a fan of kerouac
because of his
apparent machoism to her, and other
than that she
really hadn't dealt with more beat than
she had to. i
tried to talk her into teaching a
little from that era, and
she complied by promising me that she'd
find some
appropriate poems that could be taught
to the whole
class, but other than that she feels
that her job would
be in danger. i must agree because there's just so
much that the small community in which
i live can
handle.
but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me
from delving farther into the
literature.... in fact, she likes
to see and hear about what i'm reading,
as long as it's
done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the
beats are mentioned in class and the
students are
given fair awareness of them then i'll
be happy.
as a side note, we were made to
watch a film
strip on walt whitman a little earlier
in the year. the film
started going off on whom whitman has
influenced
throughout the years, and as a picture
of kerouac
surfaced on the screen i threw my hands
up in joy. i
really don't think that anyone else in
the class knew
what i was so happy about, but i
suppose that that's
their loss.
andrew
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:02:23 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: STARSPOTTING Re: Chaput is Kaput!
>
>and
photocopiers are hell ....
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
THE Spice Girls sang live last night
for the first time on a stage to show
they can perform their complicated
harmonies without the aid of backing
tapes.
yrs rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:03:36 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: OUT OF THE DARKNESS
"Bernard
show believed that
the British
Libray was the only
successful
socialist demoscracy in the
world which
treated readers equally,
was paid for out
of redistribuited tax
and run on
non-profit-making principles."
*Cats appear to
be the only domestic animals
permitted to
stray at will on public land &
private property
other than that of their owners*
yrs Rinaldo.
* 1 2 3 tutti
giu'! *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:15:51 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: 1977
http://www.taonet.it/77web/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:23:25 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: counterculture its dawn
Divenire delle
culture creative
La fenomenologia
delle culture creative contiene un complesso sistema di
riferimenti che
rinviano alle avanguardie storiche, al maoismo, ma anche
alla filosofia
hippy, all'orientalismo degli anni Sessanta, all'utopismo
felice e
comunitario, connesso con la pessimistica profezia della Teoria
critica.
Nel corso degli anni
Sessanta due tendenze avevano dato forma alle culture
cosiddette
giovanili: la tendenza a considerare I'avvenire con sicurezza e
fiducia, ad
accettare il modello di sviluppo economico e tecnologico che
sembrava
destinato ad essere illimitato e irreversibile E poi vi era la
tendenza che
possiame definire "controculturale: questa non metteva
sostanzialmente
in questione la certezza di uno sviluppo lineare, ma si
limitava a
rifiutarne le conseguenze di integrazione culturale e di
appiattimento
esistenziale, rifiutava l'omologazione e la perdita di
liberta che la
societa dei consumi determinava.
Il movimento
controculturale (hippy, antimperialista, movimento delle
comuni, movimento
studentesco) era strettamente connesso alla societa del
benessere, ne era
I'altra faccia.
Ma ecco che con
gli anni Settanta il quadro economico e politico muta: la
crisi rompe la
fiducia nel futuro, e l'orizzonte non appare rassicurante:
le identita
personali e collettive del decennio precedente (che siano
integrate o
ribelli) debbono ridisegnarsi su un altro panorama, su un'altra
attesa di futuro.
Non c'i dubbio
che la data piz significativa di questo rovesciamento di
scenari e di
percezione i il '77.
Il '77 i un anno
carico di significato per le culture giovanili in tutto
l'occidente: i
l'anno in cui il punk esplode a Londra, ed i Sex Pistols
sfidano la
polizia e la monarchia con i loro concerti provocatori, nel
giorno dei
festeggiamenti per la Regina. Ed i l'anno in cui si verificano
le prime grandi
manifestazioni antinucleari, a Malville ed a Brokdorf.
I movimenti
rivoluzionari erano stati portatori di una speranza e di
un'ideologia
fiduciosa e organica; i movimenti che si manifestano in
quell'anno sono
invece il segno del rifiuto e del rigetto della modernita,
segnalano
piuttosto disperazione per lo scenario creato dalla crisi e
dall'emergere
delle nuove tecnologie, che una speranza nel progresso
tecnologico ed
economico.
Un'intera
prospettiva storica si rovescia, le culture giovanili registrano
questo
rovesciamento nel '77: dall'espansione della societa industriale si
passa alla sua
crisi, e inoltre il progresso industriale comincia a
mostrare le sue
tendenze catastrofiche. Il rovesciamento della prospettiva
i anche segnato
dalla transizione alla societa dominata dall'elettronica,
dalla freddezza
tecnologica e dall'arroganza competitiva, dall'onnipotenza
dello spettacolo
e dell'informazione.
I giovani che
vengono sulla scena dopo il '77 sono in effetti ben diversi
da quelli che li
avevano preceduti: essi sono gli spettatori del crollo dei
miti sociali del
moderno: la crisi di prospettiva della societa moderna
appare loro come
il venir meno di ogni possibilita di futuro. Il punk i, in
questo senso, la
lucida consapevolezza di un mutamento epocale.
Visto su questo
sfondo, il '77 italiano acquista una partioclare densita:
in quell'anno si
sommano gli effetti di una prolungata stagione di lotte
operaie e di una
esplosione culturale di movimenti di rivolta dei
disoccupati e dei
giovani, di tutti coloro che si sentono minacciati dal
nuovo assetto
produttivo che si intravvede all'orizzonte del postindustriale.
Il movimento del
'77 in Italia sintetizza tutte le differenti facce della
controcultura
giovanile: l'anima politica di stampo maoista, l'aggressivita
guerrigliera si
mescolano con il creativismo di chiara derivazione hippy: e
tutto questo
finisce per sfociare nella cupa e disperata rappresentazione
del primo
emergere del punk.
Mentre nei mesi
caldi della primavera del '77 (quando esplosero le rivolte
di piazza a
Bologna e a Roma) il tono predominante era quello della
speranza
messianica, della fiducia euforica in una comunita liberata, nella
costruzione di
zone liberate, nei mesi successivi, dopo l'impatto con la
durezza della
repressione e soprattutto con la spietata logica
dell'emraginazione
, della disoccupazione, della competitivita, divenne
predominante il
tono disperato e autodistruttivo, il sentimento del
sopravvenire di
un'epoca disumana in cui tutti i valori di solidarieta
sarebbero stati
cancellati.
In questo senso
possiamo dire che il '77 fu al contempo una sintesi degli
anni Sessanta e
Settanta, ed una cupa premonizione degli anni Ottanta.
Dopo il '77
vennero ad emergenza in maniera diffusa quelle tendenze che
caratterizzano il
comportamento della popolazione giovanile nei cosiddetti
anni del
"riflusso": si modificano gli atteggiamenti e le motivazioni verso
il lavoro, gli
atteggiamenti verso ilprocesso di socializzazione, il
bisogno di comunita
e il gusto estremistico e sprezzante per la propira
solitudine
orgogliosa. E infine matura in quel momento il passaggio dalle
fome culturali
improntate al collettivismo e alligualitarismo verso le
forme che sono
dominate dall'individualismo.
Il '77
rappresenta una critica di ogni investimento psicologico sul futuro,
e la
rivendicazione di un'immanenza senza residui, di un vivere nel
presente che non
lascia spazio alle ideologie ni alle attese. Nella cultura
del '77
l'insurrezione i un atto tutto presente, un atto che vale la sua
immediatezza e
non per il futuro che deve instaurare. Su questo rifiuto
dell'investimento
nel futuro si fonda anche la critica che la cultura
del'77 rivolse
alla militanza politica tradizionale.
Bisogna vivere subito
la felicita, e non proporsela per il futuro
post-rivoluzionario.
Ma se vediamo le cose in prospettiva, con gli occhi
della successiva
esperienza, ci rendiamo conto del fatto che l'immanentismo
felice del '77,
la rivendicazione di un futuro integrale da vivere
pienamente altro
non i che l'anticipazione del "no future" del punk, che
subito dopo il
tramonto della bruciante esperienza del '77 dilaga nella
coscienza
giovanile. Non bisogna attendersi nulla dal futuro perchi non c'i
futuro per i valori
umani, per la solidarieta, la liberta, il piacere di
vivere.
Il futuro apparve
improvvisamente segnato dagli spettri della
militarizzazione,
della violenza, del conformismo, della miseria. E in
effetti dopo il
'77 che gli investimenti militari aumentano spaventosamente
e il clima della
guerra fredda riprende in concomitanza con l avittoria di
Reagan; i dopo il
'77 che un'ondata di licenziamenti si abbatte sugli
operai in tutto
l'Occidente industriale, e le nuove tecnologie mettono
fuori gioco milioni
di posti di lavoro facendo della disoccupazione
giovanile un dato
strutturale ineliminabile.
Il futuro appare
arido e deserto; e in effetti i a partire da quel momento
che sul mercato
dell droga fa la sua comparsa massiccia l'eroina, ed i
anche il momento
in cui, costretti a trovare uno spazio nel mondo della
deregulation e
della concorrenza spietata fra disoccupati, fanno la loro
ricomparsa
individualismo e competizione, producendo una crisi profonda
delle forme di
comunita solidale degli anni precedenti.
Insomma, i in
quel momento che cambia lo scenario: ma esso cambia
soprattutto nel
sistema di attese e di immaginazioni possibili del futuro.
Cambia, cioi,
nella mente sociale, nella percezione culturale, fino a
rinchiudersi
cupamente nell'omologazione conformista ed anestetizzante
degli anni
Ottanta dispiegati.
(PRIMO
MORONI/NANNI BALESTRINI - L'ORDA D'ORO - SugarCo 1988 )
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:29:08 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: ALLEN GINSBERG IS ALIVE IN THE NET
Siti e documenti
su Allen Ginsberg e sulla sua opera
Ma il Beat
sopravvive in Rete
di ENRICO M.
FERRARI
Il "seme e
la sorgente" della Beat Generation, come h stato definito Allen
Ginsberg su un
sito americano, sopravvive online, e con lui la sua cultura.
Subito dopo
l'aggravarsi delle condizioni di salute di Ginsberg, i maggiori
siti a lui
dedicati o collegati sono usciti con bollettini speciali che ne
hanno scandito le
ultime ore di vita.
Wired dedica alla
scomparsa del padre del Beat un lungo servizio ricco di
fatti sulla vita
e l'opera di Ginsberg.
Uno dei punti
principali, pieno di foto, scritti e link su Ginsberg, h la
pagina di Mongo
Bearwolf. Una sorta di epitaffio virtuale h presente su
questa pagina, in
perfetto stile Beat.
Literary Kicks
dedica svariate pagine a Ginsburg e alle sue opere: h
presente una
bibliografia dei lavori di Ginsberg,
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Lists/GinsbergWorks.html
ed una bibliografia
dei lavori su
Ginsberg stesso,
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Biblio/GinsbergBiblio.html
L'FBI aveva
aperto diverse inchieste su Ginsberg : nel sito Allen
Ginsberg's FBI
Files h possibile ritrovare tracce di quelle indagini.
The Beat
Generation Archive presenta un vasto archivio sul mondo beat:
articoli, foto e
link a personaggi o protagonisti del movimento.
Nella
"bhoemian page" dedicata a Ginsberg h presente una completa biografia
del poeta, con il
lungo dispaccio Associated Press che ne annuncia la morte.
Famose e numerose
sono le interviste di Ginsberg, tutte presenti sulla rete
, ma sparse per
numerosi siti: La celebre intervista "Ginsberg goes
bananas" h
tratta da Seconds Magazine, Hot Press presenta una intervista
denominata
"Ma il beat avanza..". Mark Amerika, "columnist" di
Internet,
dedica a Ginsberg
il pezzo Amerika Online,
In occasione
dell'intervento di Ginsberg al club Megatripolis di Londra, 19
ottobre 1995, Lee
Harris, dedica un servizio a Ginsberg.
The Poetry of
Allen Ginsberg raccoglie i lavori di Ginsberg tratti da "Howl
and other
poems," del 1956 e del 1959.
Altri lavori
online si possono trovare su HotWired e sul sito Harry Smith.
Una completa
scelta di titoli su Ginsberg, libri e CD, h disponibile su
Amazon con i
prezzi di ogni singolo articolo.
Una mailing list
sul beat h rintracciabile presso:
gopher://dept.english.upenn.edu:70/00/Lists/20th/beat-l
Il newsgroup che
si occupa di beat generation h: news:alt.books.beatgeneration
http://sun2.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/rassegna/rassegna.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:06:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
In-Reply-To:
<970514143243_641414144@emout02.mail.aol.com>
On 5-14-97
Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:
The other day I was surfing around and
discovered Jo Grant's
>web page on
which he is running Nicosia's piece about the JK archives. In
>that essay,
the same error that Gerry took back later on is still there on Jo
>Grant's page.
>I wrote Jo
Grant and asked him to remove the error written about me. His
>response to
me was that he hasn't had time yet. He's been too busy. The man
>knows it's a
lie and doesn't have time to remove it??
Jeffery,
I responded to
your request that I remove the information NOT by saying I
was too busy.
My first response
was to tell you I had been out of town and I'd take care
of it right
away...that Gerry had probably already asked me to do so--which
he hasn't, but he
has been busy so I understand. I will check with him.
Then, when I
looked for the information on BookZen I
couldn't find it.
So on 5-14-97 at
2:04 p.m. I responded with the
following:
>Jeffery,
>A friend is
in the process of reorganizing the Keroauc material on
>BookZen. I
jumped >in this a.m. and couldn't find the page to correct.
>Would you
mind sending me the document's address? It would really help and
>save me >a
ton of time.
>Thanks,
>jo
The above was in
response to the following.
>>Jo
:>>
>>I was
finally able tonight to read Gerry's essay about the Estate controversy
>>that you
have posted on your web page.
>>
>>In the
essay, Gerry mentions that Rod Anstee is a close friend of mine and
>>that he
had detailed information about what I sold as agent for John Sampas
>>and to
whom.
>I have
paraphrased Gerry's words - you get the drift of what I'm referring to
>>-
>>
>>Gerry is
wrong about this matter. Rod Anstee did not know about all the items
>>that were
sold nor did he know to whom. I did not tell Anstee all the details
>>- just
the details that were not considered confidential.
>>
>>As a
professional, I keep all business transactions between parties
>>confidential
unless I am told otherwise by the parties involved.
>>
>>Gerry and
I have already discussed this matter of confidentiality and Gerry
>>has
posted a correction to one of his emails on the Beat-L. However, I demand
>>that you
>>notify
Gerry immediately and that his essay on your web page that mentions me
>>
>>be
corrected.
>>
>>I am sure
that Gerry does not wish to continue to give the impression that I
>>am not
professional in my duties nor that I cannot be entrusted with clients'
>>personal
business affairs.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Jeffrey
H. Weinberg
>>Water Row
Books
I have not been
remiss in addressing this issue. I honestly have not been
able to find the
document in question. Please send me the address of the
document.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:09:25 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM
ITALY with love.
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
>i'm sorry,
but this is an english-speaking list. nobody can read this.
>
>please limit
your posts to the english language.
>
>On Thu, 15
May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
>> Divenire
delle culture creative
[snipped/tagliuzzato/cut]
>>
>Michael Stutz
Michael, i ask
pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,
are u interested
in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?
i hope the answer
is yes!
*
my poor signature
is Pooh Bear a not competent beetle-beet-bee-be-bo-beat
or a starspotting
on the Beat-List...
or in the beat
scene... vi prego se scrivo in italiano cerco
di scrivere anche
more in american but sometime the time
to translate a
thought stress my spontaneous email prose &
tooke me a great
piece of time... sorry Michael Stutz. how
can i do? i must
became a dumb? why u not learn some italian? (a chance).
*
*awright derek
& others Han-Shan is the real beetthing! *
*thnxlt*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:28:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY
FROM ITALY with love.
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970516000925.0068cab0@pop.gpnet.it>
On Fri, 16 May
1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
> Michael, i
ask pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,
> are u
interested in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?
Maybe you should
learn the universal language of netiquette, then. Load up a
search engine and
look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell it in
Italian, because
I'm sure there are translations -- so you can learn that
its impolite and
in bad taste to quote other people's email on a public
forum without
their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which you did
here not too long
ago.
It is not my
place (or desire) to police a list but this constant barrage of
noise is wearing
thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you posted, but saw no
relation to the
list other than the words "william blake," and that article
a while back (all
in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo, but come on! I know
German, so should
I post a shitload of German poetry to the list, or reprint
articles from
_Der Spiegel_ about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw the line there --
how 'bout I send
copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" -- Japanse
translation -- to
the list? It will look like noise to most readers, but the
"UNIVERSAL
knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!
Other listers: am
I missing something here?
Rinaldo: gosh
you're quick to address my complaint (sent to you just minutes
before you posted
to the list), but you've been great at ignoring other
email I sent to
you in the past asking you questions or to expound on other
things you wrote.
Guess I just wasn't interesting enough to share your
universal
knowledge then.
Sick of noise and
bad vibes, all too much lately,
m
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:36:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: To Jack Kerouac
DO JACK KEROUAC
by Cathal
O'Searcaigh
do Sheamas de Blaca
"The only people for me are the mad
ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,
mad to be saved, desirous of everything at
the same time, the ones who never yawn or
say a commonplace thing but burn,
burn like fabulous yellow roman
candles"
Sliocht as On
the Road
Ag sioscadh tri
do shaothar anocht thainig leoithne na
cuimhne chugam o gach leathanach.
Athmhusclaiodh
m'oige is mhothaigh me ag eiri ionam an
beat briongloideach a bhi ag deanamh aithris
ort i dtus na seachtoidi.
1973. Bhi me
hookailte ort. La i ndiaidh lae fuair me shot inspioraide o
do shaothar a ghealaigh m'aigne is a shin mo
shamhlaiocht.
Ni Min a Lea na
Fana Bhui a bhi a fheiceail agam an t-am adai ach
machairi Nebraska agus tailte fearaigh Iowa.
Agus nuair a
thagadh na bliuann orm ni bealach na Bealtaine a bhi
romham amach ach morbhealach de chuid
Mheiricea.
"Hey man you
gotta stay high" a dearfainn le mo chara agus muid ag
freakail tri Chailifornia Chill Ulta isteach
go Frisco an Fhal
Charraigh.
Ta do leabhar ina
lui druidte ar m'ucht ach faoi chraiceann an chludaigh
ta do chroi ag preabadaigh i bhfeitfeog gach
focail.
Oh man mothaim
aris, na higheanna adai ar Himileithe na hoige:
O chosta go costa
thriall muid le cheile, saonta, spleodrach,
mistiurtha;
Oilithreacht
ordoige o Nua-Eabhrac go Frisco agus as sin go Cathair
Mheicsiceo;
Beat buile inar
mbeatha. Spreagtha. Ag bladhmadh sios boithre i
gCadillacs ghasta ag sciorradh thar ior na
ceille ar eiteoga na
mbennies.
Thrasnaigh muid
teorainneacha agus thrasnaigh muid taibhrithe.
Cheiliuraigh muid
gach casadh ar bhealach ar mbeatha, bingeanna agus
braithreachas o
Bhrooklyn go Berkeley, booze, bop agus Budachas; Eigse
na hAise; sreangscealta as an tsioraiocht ar
na Sierras; marijuana
agus misteachas i Meicsiceo; briongloidi
buile i mBixby Canyon.
Rinne muid
Oirfeas as gach orifice.
O is cuimhneach
liom e go leir, a Jack, an chaint is an cuartu.
Ba tusa bard beoshuileach
na mboithre, ar thoir na foirfeachta, ar thoir
na bhFlatheas.
Is ce nach bhfuil
aon aicearra chuig na Deithe, adeirtear, d'eirigh
leatsa sli a aimsiu in amantai nuair a
d'fheistigh tu uim adhainte ar
Niagara d'aigne le dope is le diagacht.
Is i mBomaite sin
na Buile gineadh solas a thug spleachadh duit ar an
tSioraiocht,
Is a threoraigh
'na bhaile tu, ta suil agam, la do bhais chuig Whitman,
Proust agus Rimbaud.
Ta mo bhealach
fein romham amach... "a road that ah zigzags all over
creation. Yeah man! Ain't nowhere else it can
go. Right!"
Agus la inteacht
ar bhealach na seanaoise is na scoilteacha
No la nios
congarai do bhaile, b'fheidir,
Scroicfidh me
Crosbhealach na Cinniuna is beidh an Bas romham ansin,
Treorai tiriuil le
me a thabhairt thar teorainn,
Is ansin,
goddammit a Jack, beidh muid beirt ag siobshiul s tSioraiocht.
TO JACK KEROUAC
For Seamas de
Blaca
"The only people for me are the mad
ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,
mad to be saved, desirous of everything at
the same time, the ones who never yawn or
say a commonplace thing but burn, burn
like
fabulous yellow roman candles"
On the
Road
Thumbing through
your work tonight the aroma of memories came from
every page.
My youth rewoke
and I felt rising in me the dreamy beat that imitated
you at the start of the '70s.
1973. I was
hooked on you. Day after day I got shots of inspiritation
from your life which lit my mind and
stretched my imagination.
I didn't see Min
'a Lea or Fana Bhui then, but the plains of Nebraska
and the grassy lands of Iowa
And when the
blues came it wasn't the Bealtaine road that beckoned but
a way stretching across America.
"Hey man you
gotta stay high," I'd say to my friend as we freaked
through California's Cill Ulta into Frisco's
Falcarragh.
Your book lies
shut on my breast, your heart beating under the skin
cover in the muscle of every word.
Oh man I feel
them again, those highs on youth's Himalayas from coast
to coast we roamed together, free, wild,
reckless:
A hitchhiking
odyssey from New York to Frisco and down to Mexico
City.
A mad beat to our
lives. Crazed. Hurtling down highways in speeding
cars, skidding over the verge of sanity on
the wings of Benzedrine.
We crossed
frontiers and we scaled dreams.
Celebrations at
every turn of life's highway, binges and brotherhood
from Brooklyn to
Berkeley; booze, bop and Buddhism; Asian verse;
telegrams from a Sierra eternity; marijuana
and mysticism in
Mexico; frenzied visions in Bixby Canyon.
Orpheus emerged
from every orifice.
O I remember it
all Jack, the talk and the quest.
You were the
wild-eyed poet walking free, searching for harmony,
searching for Heaven.
And although it
is said there's no shortcut to the Gods you opened one
up now and then, harnessing your mind's
Niagara with dope and
divinity.
And in those
rapturous moments you generated the
light that you saw eternity by
And that guided
you, I hope, the day of your death, home to Whitman,
Proust and Rimbaud.
My road is before
me "a road that ah zigzags all over creation. Yeah
man! Ain't nowhere else it can go.
Right!"
And someday, on
the road of ailing sight and knotted limbs
Or a less distant
day, perhaps
Death will face
me Fate's Crossroads
My gentle
companion across the frontier
And then,
goddamit Jack, we'll both be hiking across eternity.
translated by
Sarah Berkeley
Published in
Heaven Poster Series #61
Ron Whitehead
the literary
renaissance
1387 Lexington
Road
Louisville,
Kentucky
40206
USA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:07:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Henry <luckfry@NETWAY1.MDC.NET>
Subject: test
test
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:39:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY
FROM ITALY with love.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.94.970515181337.20555U-100000@seka.nacs.net>
excuse the
interjection,
as someone whose
been on and off the list for more than a year now, i can
observe, isn't it
funny that attempts to "stop wasteful posts" often just
creates a whole
ongoing string of more wasteful posts, like arguments,
namecalling,
debates as to what is or isnt relevent, and posts like the
one i'm writing
which bathes in wastefulness.
insincerely,
Eric
-- Perhaps the
only way we can stop ourselves from going to hell is to do
nothing to
prevent it --
On Thu, 15 May
1997, Michael Stutz wrote:
> On Fri, 16
May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
>
> >
Michael, i ask pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,
> > are u
interested in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?
>
> Maybe you
should learn the universal language of netiquette, then. Load up a
> search
engine and look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell it in
> Italian,
because I'm sure there are translations -- so you can learn that
> its impolite
and in bad taste to quote other people's email on a public
> forum
without their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which you did
> here not too
long ago.
>
> It is not my
place (or desire) to police a list but this constant barrage of
> noise is
wearing thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you posted, but saw no
> relation to
the list other than the words "william blake," and that article
> a while back
(all in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo, but come on! I know
> German, so
should I post a shitload of German poetry to the list, or reprint
> articles
from _Der Spiegel_ about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw the line there --
> how 'bout I
send copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" -- Japanse
> translation
-- to the list? It will look like noise to most readers, but the
>
"UNIVERSAL knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!
>
> Other
listers: am I missing something here?
>
> Rinaldo:
gosh you're quick to address my complaint (sent to you just minutes
> before you
posted to the list), but you've been great at ignoring other
> email I sent
to you in the past asking you questions or to expound on other
> things you
wrote. Guess I just wasn't interesting enough to share your
> universal
knowledge then.
>
>
> Sick of
noise and bad vibes, all too much lately,
>
> m
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:58:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: George Russell
<CodyPomera@AOL.COM>
Subject: AOL & Neal Cassady
Hello, I just
made the big plunge to AOL, 30 days unlimited time free and all
that, and I was
wondering since there are an endless amount of "newsgroups"
on AOL if any of
you know of any beat places to hang out?
BTW: Maybe Leon
can help me out
with this, but how much did Neal change when he started
dropping
acid? I know it has skewed (maybe not
skews, enlightens?, who
knows) my
perspectives, and the man had too have changed considerably. Just
wondering since I
have been watching this video I got from KEY-Z productions
called Neal Cassady,
Drive Alive. Some crazy, whacked out
shit let me tell
you. Not worth, of course, the 29.95 I paid for
it, but hell, I wanted to
see the man in
action. Actually, it is pretty well done
and I will watch it
more than once so
it was worth it, but it seems to me that LSD just
intensified him
or was he just a completely different person?
Eh?
Thanks....
-George
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:29:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeanne Vaccaro
<SlugBug747@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!
Sorry (i am
alittle - alot - late...)
I completely
disagree with the idea that the Pranksters and others have to
get moving with
the times. Their statement, as I see it,
is not necessarily
about a
particualar time in history, but rather about culture and lifestyle
... which has no
boundries or limitations. It is about
freedom and
expression and a
true love for life, both good and bad, and dealing... it is
a message which i
hope we can all learn from (wheather or not we choose to
follow it). they urge us follow ourselves and reject the
things which are
thrown in front
of us... we should seek things for ourselves...
that is a
timeless message...
p.s. i have
tickets to see dylan for the first time ever (for me he is a god)
and friends gave
me similar speeches about his voice failing, etc. but he is
a legend
regardless and i will appriciate him and his work forever
ciao, jeanne.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:31:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeanne Vaccaro
<SlugBug747@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!
oh mike...i could
not agree with you more <sigh>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:12:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: AG's grave?? and Paterson Memorial
I heard recently
that Paterson officials relented and will allow a public
memorial
reading/service/remembrance for local "bad boy" Allen. Date is June
8th - and I will
add information as I learn it.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:51:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A Found Poem
In a message
dated 97-05-15 11:53:58 EDT, Gerry wrote:
> I'm out for
money and power, I'm a glory
>hunter, I'm
too cheap to donate to a good cause, I'm a "nut," etc.
A "found
poem" and, incidentally, a pretty darn good summary I think.
Well done, Gerry.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:50:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Solomon's Mishaps
In a message
dated 97-05-15 11:44:54 EDT, you write:
<< I'm
posting some of his pieces from More Mishaps (City Lights, 1968)
that concern themselves with the Beat
Generation, and with reading. >>
If you check out
the copyright page that book was first published by Beach
Books, Texts
& Documents. They also published APO-33 by WSB. I don't believe
LF would have
touched that book if Claude and Mary hadn't pointed the way.
I have fond
memories of Carl visiting us here in Cherry Valley. He came to
fish at the
Committee.
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:55:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Motivations
I sure hope that
the posts about the Kerouac Estate battle ebb rather than
flow, at least at
the recent rate.
I just want to
add that I have no doubt that Mr. Nicosea's motivations are
relitively pure
-- pure as anything else in an all too cynical world. Anyone
who has read
Memory Babe must at least grant that Mr. Nicosea knows his
subject well,
perhaps he has become too close for comfort, and that he has a
genuine love for
the best of the Kerouac literary legacy without turning a
blind eye to the
flaws that Jack Kerouac and the rest of the human race
share.
Mr. Nicosea may
still be wrong about many things. I have
no doubt that Mr.
Anstee, Mr.
Chaput and probably Mr. Sampus also love the Kerouac legacy and
the man
himself. Why else would someone like Mr.
Anstee amass a world class
collection? Why else would Mr. Chaput work so dilligently
on the annual
Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac celebration? And if John Sampus
was ONLY motivated
by money, why
would he not have sold off everything by now?
In the heat of
the moment, let us not forget that Mr. Nicosea has devoted a
great part of his
life to Jack Kerouac and has shared his work with all of
us. I thank him for it, and I thank him for his
current efforts without
making ANY
judgement about his claims, legal or otherwise.
I also thank Ann
Charters, Tom
Clark, Dennis McNally and the others who have done so much to
help us
understand the life and work of Jack Kerouac.
In addition, I thank
Mr. Nicosea for
anything he ever did for Jan Kerouac, a fragile soul who was
dealt a very
rough hand in life. The only thing I do
not thank Mr. Nicosea
for is his well-demonstrated penchant for judgement of the motivations of
his detractors.
I'll save my
judgements for the likes of George Will, Newt Gingrich, Irving
Kristol, Bill
Bennett, Norman Podheritz and anyone else who wants to erase
the freedom that
has come to us in the last 40 or so years of cultural
battle.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:58:29 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> May 15, 1997
>
> Mr. David
Rhaesa wrote:
> "Once again, you're lumping from
point A to point Q in a
>
conspiratorial mode. Frankly, I don't
understand WHY you feel a need to
> incorporate
these conspiratorial arguments into your discourse."
>
> Dear David,
>
> Some all-inclusive conspiracy theories
are wacko--like Oliver Stone
> having
everyone from the mafia to the CIA to Fidel Castro conspiring to kill
> Kennedy.
> That doesn't mean smalltime
conspiracies don't sometimes exist. The
> word is in
the English language for a reason.
> A lot of the stuff on the Beat-List
recently, a lot of the charges
> against me
and Jan, had to come directly from Sampas.
> For example, the matter of Jan Kerouac
selling her mother's warrant
> for child
support was not public knowledge. It was
known only to Jan, me,
> the dealer,
and the Sampases and their lawyer, George Tobia, who purchased
> it. It was never in a news story or recounted at
any Kerouac event.
> So how did it get up here if it wasn't
fed to someone by Sampas?
> Curiously yours, Gerry Nicosia
Gerry--
It was sent to me
via a backchannel not directly related to this
controversy. I could look up the source if I had to, but
it was not a
Sampas. I have never met a Sampas, never been in Lowell
or near it for
nearly 50
years. Everyone you mention knows
someone, who knows someone,
who knows
someone. Very little stays private if it
is interesting. I
seriously doubt I
have been chosen by the Sampas Casa Nostra to leak out
their little bits
of information. I have never met Chapaut
or Anastee
or anyone except
on this list. I am a non player
here. It is examples
like this that
make me lean toward Chaput's conclusion as to your having
become a little
unbalanced over this.
I am an ex
academic and ex scholar. It would be
nice if the archive
existed but
certainly not essential. There is no
Chaucer archive, no
Shakespeare
archive, and those guys reputations are doing just fine.
The rest of it is
greed. Greed for money. Greed for publication credit
or whatever. I just don't care.I would rather read Jack
than worry
about whether
Paul Blake got screwed or not.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:00:54 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
Timothy K. Gallaher
wrote:
>
> >Just to
pipe in here....
> >I am an
editor of textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one
> >of the
first series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled
>
>"New Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used
an excerpt
> >of
"October in Railroad Earth."
> >
> >This
particular series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,
> >just
think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or
> >over in
Taiwan learned English by reading Kerouac!
Who'd a thunk it, eh?
> >
> >Best,
> >Kathleen
>
> This would
have to be for very advanced ESL students.
>
> Most native
american speakers would have trouble with this let alone a ESL
> student
overseas.
Timothy,
Maybe you're
selling them short. Is
"October" that hard a read? If
it
is so hard what
is that much easier in the 20th century loose cannon.
Harder than
Fitzgerald or Hemingway or Faulkner?
Certainly not harder
than Faulkner.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:03:25 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: TRIUMPH OF THE WILL
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> "...ten
minutes of a lone cowboy waiting
> in an empty
trail station for the Sampas gang to show up."
> --James Stauffer
>
> Dear James:
>
> It's been over two weeks, and I'm
still waiting. My grub's done run
> out, and all
I've glimpsed so far are a few outriders.
> (P.S. Leni Riefenstahl beats Sergio
Leone any day.)
> Gerhard Von Nicosia
Gerry,
But I'll take a
good spaghetti western any day, and I thought that you
would be good
played by Bronson, with that nice little harmonica lick,
and we could have
Sampas be the baby killing Henry Fonda character--I
don't know who
Claudia Cardinale is.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:58:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: something completely different [Naked
Lunch in French]
In a message
dated 97-05-15 12:35:48 EDT, you write:
<< Do you
know if NL has been redone in French since then? >>
No I don't know,
but I'll try to find out.
Pam
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:46:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
....
>two posts
ago, you brought up oliver stone, you commented that this
>situation is
not like an oliver stone but a real one, you reminded me
>and other
readers that the word conspiracy is in the dictionary, then
>you continued
to throw conspiratorial claims and Now ....
>
>
>Mister David
Race Rhaesa
>
Dear Mr.
Rhaesa: May 15, 1997
If anyone seems hot under the collar,
I'd say it's you.
My reference to Oliver Stone was in
answer to your talk about
conspiracies.
If you still have the history of this
dialogue in your computer or
on hard copy,
please check to see who used the word CONSPIRACY first. I'd
lay odds that you
or Chaput used it before I ever did. If
I'm wrong, I owe
you a dinner in
Kansas City.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:39:33 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
>
> who was
instructed last year that: the White Whale respresents all that is
> paradoxical,
unpredictable, and uncontrolable in nature; and if one tries
> to say that
it signifies something else, he or she is flat out wrong!
funny, i'd heard
that the white whale symbolized the elusive phantom of
being and that
everything else was wrong :)
david
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:43:22 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> ....
> >two
posts ago, you brought up oliver stone, you commented that this
>
>situation is not like an oliver stone but a real one, you reminded me
> >and
other readers that the word conspiracy is in the dictionary, then
> >you
continued to throw conspiratorial claims and Now ....
> >
> >
> >Mister
David Race Rhaesa
> >
>
> Dear Mr.
Rhaesa: May 15, 1997
>
> If anyone seems hot under the collar,
I'd say it's you.
> My reference to Oliver Stone was in
answer to your talk about
>
conspiracies.
> If you still have the history of this
dialogue in your computer or
> on hard
copy, please check to see who used the word CONSPIRACY first. I'd
> lay odds
that you or Chaput used it before I ever did.
If I'm wrong, I owe
> you a dinner
in Kansas City.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
no free dinner
for me.
i used it before
you i imagine.
i was hot. i felt that the Karmic referees missed a
clipping foul.
obviously you
didn't read it at midnight with Johnny Cash in the
background or it
would have had a bit different perspective.
i'm out of it.
i hope you get
the footnote in history you want and deserve.
don't care
much how you
choose to do it.
photocopiers kill
trees
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:57:54 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!
Jeanne Vaccaro
wrote:
>
> Sorry (i am
alittle - alot - late...)
>
> I completely
disagree with the idea that the Pranksters and others have to
> get moving
with the times. Their statement, as I
see it, is not necessarily
> about a
particualar time in history, but rather about culture and lifestyle
> ... which
has no boundries or limitations. It is
about freedom and
> expression
and a true love for life, both good and bad, and dealing... it is
> a message
which i hope we can all learn from (wheather or not we choose to
> follow
it). they urge us follow ourselves and
reject the things which are
> thrown in
front of us... we should seek things for ourselves...
> that is a
timeless message...
>
> p.s. i have
tickets to see dylan for the first time ever (for me he is a god)
> and friends
gave me similar speeches about his voice failing, etc. but he is
> a legend
regardless and i will appriciate him and his work forever
>
> ciao,
jeanne.
Dylan is aging
like a beautiful wine. as long as you
don't expect to
hear an album
repitition and enjoy spontaneous versions it should be a
treat. enjoy.
shalom,
david
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:03:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
...
>It [info
about the warrant] was sent to me via a backchannel not directly
related to this
>controversy. I could look up the source if I had to, but
it was not a
>Sampas. I have never met a Sampas, never been in
Lowell or near it for
>nearly 50
years. Everyone you mention knows someone,
who knows someone,
>who knows
someone. Very little stays private if it
is interesting. I
>seriously
doubt I have been chosen by the Sampas Casa Nostra to leak out
>their little
bits of information. I have never met
Chapaut or Anastee
>or anyone
except on this list. I am a non player
here. It is examples
>like this
that make me lean toward Chaput's conclusion as to your having
>become a
little unbalanced over this.
>
>
>J Stauffer
>
Dear James, May 15, 1997
I trust you about the warrant info, but
I am curious who your
"backchannel"
was; perhaps you're not at liberty to say.
Before I commit myself to a loony bin,
however, I do recall that the
day after Joe
Grant stated on the Beat-List that he was going to print the
Paul Blake, Jr.
letter, both Joe and myself got threatening telephone calls
from Mr. Tobia,
Sampas's lawyer. Does that not seem as
if Mr. Sampas has
his scouts out
perusing the Beat-List for him? Or are
we to assume he
simply reads it
silently every day, and never responds?
(Like the Deists'
version of God,
the clockmaker who sits back, marveling at his own work.)
(That's a joke, Mr. Rhaesa, not part of
the conspiracy theory, okay?)
Let me just add, James, that what I am
is not "unbalanced"--at least
I haven't had
anyone suggesting lately that I'm out of touch with
reality--but
rather ANGRY. I watched one of the best
friends I ever had,
Jan Kerouac,
suffer needlessly for years before she died.
And I'm not
talking about suffering
from the kidney failure, which was bad enough.
I have people here pushing my buttons,
claiming Jan said things she
never did, in
effect lying about this woman now that she can't speak up for
herself any more,
and it makes me even madder. I get the
feeling that for
some people on
the Beat-List, this is all a play with their favorite
characters,
called, perhaps, SAMPAS AGONISTES. Well
it's not a play for me.
Jan was a real
person I watched go down to a tragic end--someone I cared
deeply about--and
I believe with all my heart that her cause and her desires
were for justice
and honor, not money, no matter how many people want to
believe that
because it gives the story a better twist for them.
I'm still getting over the loss of Jan,
and the grieving has been
hard, what with
getting hit with a major legal action only months after her
death, by her
ex-husband, and then having to deal with the major thefts from
the MEMORY BABE
archive at the very same time. I
certainly haven't
appreciated a lot
of the cheap shots I've been getting here, and I wonder
how many of these
flippant critics, if they had to deal with as much at once
as I have, would
come out of it with their sanity intact.
I think I'm doing a pretty good job,
all things considered.
I don't think I'm going to win any more
converts here, so I'll take
a break for a
while. I'm aware that making money is
sexy; saving
manuscripts is
not.
See you all on the Santa Fe Trail.
-- The Man With No Name
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:13:53 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
(Like the Deists'
> version of
God, the clockmaker who sits back, marveling at his own work.)
> (That's a joke, Mr. Rhaesa, not part
of the conspiracy theory, okay?)
a fairly good
joke....
> See you all on the Santa Fe Trail.
> -- The Man
With No Name
i'll stay at home
with Matt Dillon and Festus ..... :)
david
p.s. best to read with "I'm So Lonesome I
Could Cry" the best song for
grieving i've
ever known. i respect the process of
grieving and the
threats to sanity
sincerely. i apologize if i have made
your loss too
trying. i'm putting in a notice at the local library
to buy your book
and the others
mentioned. The only one on the shelf was
McNally's so
i'm pleasantly
enjoying his tale at the present.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:11:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: school and literature...
howl's in your school
library
jeeez
props to that
place
jeremy
----------
: From: Robert H.
Sapp <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re:
school and literature...
: Date: Thursday,
May 15, 1997 3:31 PM
:
: hello,
:
: at my school,
only passing refernece to the beats is made; like, "and in
: the fifties,
there was a group of people called beatnicks, who would sit
: in coffeshops
and read poetry while beating bongo drums." And thats it.
:
: in the library,
Ginsberg's Howl and The Fall of America are the only
: books by him
there, and they are categorized as RESERVED, which means
: that they are
kept in a shelf behind the checkout counter. "Fallof
: America"
is missing. Howl rests there. Because its reserved, it can only
: be taken out
for one night. Reserved books are the form of
: mini-censorship
our school engages in, i guess so that no innocent child
: brosing through
the poetry section will come across any "indecent" work.
: The Reserved
books include Tim Leary's Flashbacks as well as Scietific
: books about
drugs. if there was more beat literature at my school, itd be
: there too, but
--
:
: adios, soory if
this is boring,
: Eric
:
: On Thu, 15 May
1997, andrew szymczyk wrote:
:
: > hmmm,
: >
: > seeing that there's a lot of
talk about school
: > programs, i feel that i need to budge
in. i'm a junior in
: > high school right now, and not too
long ago my american
: > lit. teacher became aware of my
interest in the beat gen.
: > she already knew that i was reading
more in my spare
: > time than most of the kiddies my age,
but she was still
: > a little put off because of her
experience with the beats.
: > she has never been a fan of kerouac
because of his
: > apparent machoism to her, and other
than that she
: > really hadn't dealt with more beat
than she had to. i
: > tried to talk her into teaching a
little from that era, and
: > she complied by promising me that
she'd find some
: > appropriate poems that could be taught
to the whole
: > class, but other than that she feels
that her job would
: > be in danger. i must agree because there's just so
: > much that the small community in which
i live can
: > handle. but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me
: > from delving farther into the
literature.... in fact, she likes
: > to see and hear about what i'm
reading, as long as it's
: > done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the
: > beats are mentioned in class and the
students are
: > given fair awareness of them then i'll
be happy.
: >
: > as a side note, we were made
to watch a film
: > strip on walt whitman a little earlier
in the year. the film
: > started going off on whom whitman has
influenced
: > throughout the years, and as a picture
of kerouac
: > surfaced on the screen i threw my
hands up in joy. i
: > really don't think that anyone else in
the class knew
: > what i was so happy about, but i
suppose that that's
: > their loss.
: >
: >
: > andrew
: >
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:15:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY
FROM ITALY with love.
this is equally
wasteful electronic sponge space
but i agree wit
you robert
nobody really
flames anybody
its just a hunk
of ideas stepping on eachother
learn
dance
move on
----------
: From: Robert H.
Sapp <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re:
FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM ITALY with love.
: Date: Thursday,
May 15, 1997 6:39 PM
:
: excuse the
interjection,
:
: as someone
whose been on and off the list for more than a year now, i can
: observe, isn't
it funny that attempts to "stop wasteful posts" often just
: creates a whole
ongoing string of more wasteful posts, like arguments,
: namecalling,
debates as to what is or isnt relevent, and posts like the
: one i'm writing
which bathes in wastefulness.
:
: insincerely,
: Eric
:
: -- Perhaps the only
way we can stop ourselves from going to hell is to do
: nothing to
prevent it --
:
: On Thu, 15 May
1997, Michael Stutz wrote:
:
: > On Fri, 16
May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:
: >
: > >
Michael, i ask pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,
: > > are u
interested in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?
: >
: > Maybe you
should learn the universal language of netiquette, then. Load
up a
: > search
engine and look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell it in
: > Italian,
because I'm sure there are translations -- so you can learn
that
: > its
impolite and in bad taste to quote other people's email on a public
: > forum
without their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which you
did
: > here not
too long ago.
: >
: > It is not
my place (or desire) to police a list but this constant
barrage of
: > noise is
wearing thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you posted, but
saw no
: > relation
to the list other than the words "william blake," and that
article
: > a while
back (all in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo, but come on! I
know
: > German, so
should I post a shitload of German poetry to the list, or
reprint
: > articles
from _Der Spiegel_ about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw the line
there --
: > how 'bout
I send copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" -- Japanse
: >
translation -- to the list? It will look like noise to most readers,
but the
: >
"UNIVERSAL knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!
: >
: > Other
listers: am I missing something here?
: >
: > Rinaldo:
gosh you're quick to address my complaint (sent to you just
minutes
: > before you
posted to the list), but you've been great at ignoring other
: > email I
sent to you in the past asking you questions or to expound on
other
: > things you
wrote. Guess I just wasn't interesting enough to share your
: > universal
knowledge then.
: >
: >
: > Sick of
noise and bad vibes, all too much lately,
: >
: > m
: >
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:53:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: endings to legendary flame wars
I don't think
I'll be able to come up with anything
to commemorate
our recent flame war as imaginatively
as Rinaldo did
with his famous Ninety Posts From Italy,
but the impending
end of this war (and my worried sense that
the hostility level
is still pretty high in general
around the old
"L") ... well, it's reminding me of a post
my friend Jef
Morlan once sent to a different list
he and I are both
on, after this list went through the
contortions of
its own epic and bitter flame war. Here's
what he
sent. Maybe it'll help us all heal here
too.
(NOTE: the
following words are courtesy of Jef Morlan):
>>>What
about the sweeping-generalizations crowd?
>>>
>>Without
sweeping generalizations, most writers
>>would be
out of a job.
>>
>>> Ah, yes they are. "He who can control the music of a
society
>>>controls
the minds of that society.."
(Mussolini)
>>
>>Mussolini
was lynched by his own people.
>>
>Yes, but for
a *time* he could have all the teenage girls he wanted!
>"unless
we force people to be cool"
> Absolutely! Let's be anarcho-fascists!
I was wondering
if any others can feel the "pointed energy" coming
out of this
thread? Why is this such a "pointed/charged" thread?
Does any of this
really matter?
mmmm........I
think I'll round it off this energy a little.
:) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
do wap a doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!
(All together
now!)
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
doodle doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!!
(ONE MORE TIME!)
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
do wap a doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!
(All together
now!)
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
doodle doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!!
:) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
I've been digging
in the dirt a lot lately and one of
the many aspects
of it I have enjoyed is that dirt
doesn't care who
or what you are. With a little
love and
attention, a *few* well chosen healthy
seeds, it will
give/produce/create freely.
I like to think
of the net as dirt.
We should choose carefully
what/where/when
we plant.
(ONE MORE TIME!)
:) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
do wap a doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!
(All together now!)
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
doodle doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!!
(ONE MORE TIME!)
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
Schuap a do a do
ah SQUEEEEE!
do wap a doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!
(All together
now!)
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
doodle doodle
SQUEEEEE!!!!!
:) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Ah, yes! What
FUN! :)
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:03:13 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: endings to legendary flame wars
Levi Asher wrote:
>
> I don't
think I'll be able to come up with anything
> to
commemorate our recent flame war as imaginatively
> as Rinaldo
did with his famous Ninety Posts From Italy,
> but the
impending end of this war (and my worried sense that
> the
hostility level is still pretty high in general
> around the
old "L") ... well, it's reminding me of a post
> my friend
Jef Morlan once sent to a different list
> he and I are
both on, after this list went through the
> contortions
of its own epic and bitter flame war.
Here's
> what he
sent. Maybe it'll help us all heal here
too.
>
> (NOTE: the
following words are courtesy of Jef Morlan):
>
>
>>>What about the sweeping-generalizations crowd?
> >>>
>
>>Without sweeping generalizations, most writers
>
>>would be out of a job.
> >>
>
>>> Ah, yes they
are. "He who can control the music
of a society
>
>>>controls the minds of that society.." (Mussolini)
> >>
>
>>Mussolini was lynched by his own people.
> >>
> >Yes, but
for a *time* he could have all the teenage girls he wanted!
>
>
>"unless we force people to be cool"
>
> > Absolutely! Let's be anarcho-fascists!
>
> I was
wondering if any others can feel the "pointed energy" coming
> out of this
thread? Why is this such a "pointed/charged" thread?
> Does any of
this really matter?
>
>
mmmm........I think I'll round it off this energy a little.
>
> :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> do wap a
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!
>
> (All
together now!)
>
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
> doodle
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!
>
> (ONE MORE
TIME!)
>
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> do wap a
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!
>
> (All
together now!)
>
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
> doodle
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!
>
> :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>
> I've been
digging in the dirt a lot lately and one of
> the many
aspects of it I have enjoyed is that dirt
> doesn't care
who or what you are. With a little
> love and
attention, a *few* well chosen healthy
> seeds, it
will give/produce/create freely.
>
> I like to
think of the net as dirt.
> We should
choose carefully
>
what/where/when we plant.
>
> (ONE MORE
TIME!)
>
> :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> do wap a
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!
>
> (All
together now!)
>
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
> doodle
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!
>
> (ONE MORE
TIME!)
>
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> Schuap a do
a do ah SQUEEEEE!
> do wap a
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!
>
> (All
together now!)
>
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
>
SQUEEEE! op a doooodle!
> doodle
doodle SQUEEEEE!!!!!
>
> :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>
> Ah, yes!
What FUN! :)
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>
-----------------------------------------------------
ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha
heeeeeee
heeeeeeeee
snort
ha ha ha
aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa
david
p.s. Mussolini
plagiarized that music line. :)
p.p.s. plagarism is basic to all culture ...
plagiarized from Charles
Seeger ....
plagiarized from some guy next to Charles at a deli once
p.p.p.s.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:09:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
Dear Jo Grant:
I have asked you
twice now to remove errors in Gerry's essay that you are
running on your
web page and twice you have refused. Now the reason is that
you do not know
where to look on your own page. What's the address?, you ask.
Ok - here's the
address:
www.bookzen.com/nicosia.html.
What's your
excuse going to be now for keeping alive the b.s.?
Rod Anstee did
not have precise knowledge of all transactions - what was sold
and who had
bought them, as Gerry states in his essay. Gerry has already
discussed this
matter with me during a phone conversation.
You are also
keeping alive the BS story that J. Depp may have paid $50K for
one item. That is
not true. Gerry discussed this matter wth me also.
I want all
members of the Beat-L to know that although I respect Gerry's
passion for
his archive
crusade, I believe that you are causing him harm by keeping the
errors alive.
I suggest that
all Beat-L members look at both sides of this archive coin
before
making any
decisions on where they stand on this issue. Just because Jo Grant
puts it on his
web page does not mean that it is true.
A last comment
for Jo Grant: any further discussion between us should be
carried out
privately.
Jeffrey Weinberg
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:36:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Something completely different #2
At 07:51 AM
5/15/97 -0500, david rhaesa wrote:
>i enjoyed
reading the varied posts from varied voices on the lists. it
>seems that
the first thread (something #1) is partially devoted to
>whether
students can handle the material, whether high schools should be
>burned and
whatnot. this seems a relevant area to
question in the
>process of
determining whether to work for "incorporation" (rather than
>pushing) beat
litearture into the high school curriculum.
>
>so far, the
suggestions of "railroad earth" and "on the road" have been
>mentioned. there are some who feel that other materials
might not make
>it by the
school boards. that is probably a
concern. it is more likely
>that one
would be working towards the textbook editors at first.
>
>so I'm asking
a second kind of question in "something completely
>different
#2". Assuming, that we did want to
put forth some effort in
>this
direction, what besides "Railroad Earth" would be recommended
>suggestions
to encourage being excerpted into Survey Type Readers of
>American
Literature to provide a "taste" of this rich material.
>
>i seem to
agree that secondary literature courses beyond the initial
>survey should
be highly optional. Besides ON ROUTE,
what beat materials
>seem possible
to get on optional readings lists. This
question probably
>involves
considering community standards a bit more.
Is Kerouac the
>only possible
introduction the students could get their hands on in the
>classroom? It seems that Burroughs' material unless
excerpted into a
>Burroughs'
reader for this purpose would be nearly impossible to get
>past the
moral guard. i'd be interested in others
opinions on what the
>best types in
each of these categories might be.
>
>i appreciate
y'alls response. this is not an attempt
to jump off the
>bridge at Big
Sur concerning the "Something #1" thread. I'll take some
>time over the
next day and begin to think more actively about all the
>comments and
suggestions made and continue to post to that thread as
>well. i am only attempting to provide two different
threads of focus on
>this matter.
>
>david rhaesa
>salina kansas
>
>not sure if
i'm persona non-grata at the high school anymore or not.
>told the
principal he was running a prison and not a school (a result of
>a bit of
mania and having read too much Ivan Illich on education; and
>because it
was TRUE). i think i'm accepted in
certain parts of the
>building to
do some local investigation.
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
railroad in oct.
earth is a winner. how about watts/beat zen . . . or
ferlinghetti: starting from s.f. & coney island? i don't remember any of
these being too
rugged for hi school. maybe even as a
period piece for some
good discussion
mailer's white negro? or how about we on this list come up
with some
"suitable" stuff and put together some kind of "anthology"
for
open study in
schools? hmmmm....... how about it?
once again we have an
opportunity to be
constructive instead destructive with our collective
minds/imagination.
gee, there's an idea, let's be creative & constructive.
ideas like this
make me happy. in the words of rodney the king, "can't we
all just get
along?" great to hear from the younger set with their opinions
and experience. I
myself being a card carrying geek/dork in jr. high & high
school spent countless
hours in the library discovering many great things
that nobody
taught in class. of course when really
do schools teach one to
think?
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:44:19 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> ...
> >It [info
about the warrant] was sent to me via a backchannel not directly
> related to
this
>
>controversy. I could look up the
source if I had to, but it was not a
>
>Sampas. I have never met a Sampas,
never been in Lowell or near it for
> >nearly
50 years. Everyone you mention knows
someone, who knows someone,
> >who
knows someone. Very little stays private
if it is interesting. I
>
>seriously doubt I have been chosen by the Sampas Casa Nostra to leak out
> >their
little bits of information. I have never
met Chapaut or Anastee
> >or
anyone except on this list. I am a non
player here. It is examples
> >like
this that make me lean toward Chaput's conclusion as to your having
> >become a
little unbalanced over this.
> >
> >
> >J Stauffer
> >
>
> Dear
James, May 15, 1997
>
> I trust you about the warrant info,
but I am curious who your
>
"backchannel" was; perhaps you're not at liberty to say.
Gerry,
I'll dig back
through my mail when I get time and try to find it. It
won't be
easy. I am not organized enough to stick
these mails into
files so there is
a pile.
I really mean no
disrespect toward your seriousness.
Everyone's tone
gets heated, and
I sincerely sympathize with your grief over losing Jan.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:49:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
Since it seems to
be important to someone that somebody named Johnny Depp
did not pay 50K
for a raincoat, how much did he pay?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:50:29 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Something completely different #2
s.a. griffin
wrote:
> >
> >
> railroad in
oct. earth is a winner. how about watts/beat zen . . . or
>
ferlinghetti: starting from s.f. &
coney island? i don't remember any of
> these being
too rugged for hi school. maybe even as
a period piece for some
> good
discussion mailer's white negro? or how about we on this list come up
> with some
"suitable" stuff and put together some kind of "anthology"
for
> open study
in schools?
All good
suggestions. I like the idea. I Beat-L high school anthology
or suggested
reading list. I'd add a dollop of
Snyder, say some of the
Myths and Texts
poems.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:04:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY
FROM ITALY with love.
>: On Thu, 15
May 1997, Michael Stutz wrote:
>: > Maybe
you should learn the universal language of netiquette, then.
>Load up a
search engine and look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell
it
>in Italian,
because I'm sure there are translations -- so you can
>learn that
its impolite and in bad taste to quote other people's email
on a
>public forum
without their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which
>you did here
not too long ago.
>: >
> It is not my
place (or desire) to police a list but this constant
>barrage of
noise is wearing thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you
posted,
>but saw no
relation to the list other than the words "william blake,"
and
>that article
a while back (all in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo,
but come on! I
>know German,
so should I post a shitload of German poetry to the list,
>or
reprint articles from _Der Spiegel_
about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw
the
>line there
--how 'bout I send copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen"
--
>Japanse
translation -- to the list? It will look like noise to most
>readers, but
the "UNIVERSAL knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!
>: Other
listers: am I missing something here?
> Sick of
noise and bad vibes, all too much lately,
>
> m
I just want
Rinaldo to know that we do not all beleive in this crap
written above. I
do not stnd behind this racist critique of your posts.
If you want to
write in Italian- go for it. I cannot speak Italian (I
speak spanish so
I roughly understand what you say) but that does not
mean I should
stop you from writing. This is a open forum. Write however
you want.
To the author of this piece- write in german
if you want. I will do what
I do with
Rinaldo's posts when i cannot understnd them- I will delete
them without
giving a thought. English is not the most important
language. He can
write and speak however he wants.
You might do well to look up netiquitte
yourself. Nowhere in any
ettiquette
sources I am familiar with is it ok to make derogatory
innuendos about
anothers language and/or heritage such as
"look up "netiquette" -- or
however you spell it in Italian"
My two cents worth-
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:21:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
In-Reply-To:
<970516000913_155162182@emout19.mail.aol.com>
>Dear Jo Grant:
>
>I have asked
you twice now to remove errors in Gerry's essay that you are
>running on
your web page and twice you have refused. Now the reason is that
>you do not
know where to look on your own page. What's the address?, you ask.
>Ok - here's
the address:
>http://www.bookzen.com/nicosia.html.
>What's your
excuse going to be now for keeping alive the b.s.?
Lighten up
Jeffery,
You sent me the
document address at 11:09 p.m. 05-15-97. At 12:58 a.m.
05-16-97 the
changes were made.
I asked for the
address not as an excuse, but simply to find out where the
information you
complained about was located.
I made the
changes not because you demanded that I do, but because I'm
giving you the
benefit of the doubt. I trust that you have done what you
tell me you have
done--discussed it with Gerry. I haven't
heard from Gerry
on this issue
yet....
Please understand
that I have no problem with you. I don't
know you. I'm
simply a retired
laborer (a union worker) and a Deb's Socialist who's also
a Wobbly who has
been on the road, admires and respects both Kerouacs, and
JK's
comrades. I just want the Keroauc
literary arvchives in a library,
safe and
preserved. I'll keep anything to support that on my web site, I'll
walk a picket
line and I'll demonstrate. The material is much too important
to have people
wheeling and dealing and profiting by selling any part of
the collection.
They--the Sampas
family--MAY own the collection. They may not.
If Sampas claims
that he can prove Memere's signature on the will is not
forged, then
let's give him the opportunity to do so.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:29:51 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
In-Reply-To:
<v01510101afa13a37c9f4@[128.125.224.159]>
>Since it
seems to be important to someone that somebody named Johnny Depp
>did not pay
50K for a raincoat, how much did he pay?
Lazy
webmaster? Nah.
Not true.
Unskilled, a
novice, more at home with a wheel barrow loaded with paving
stones than
computer technology, YEH. But not lazy.
Disorganized, not
efficient in allocating my time, YEH. Those for sure. But
not lazy, and not a webmaster--yet.
You're taking too
much for Granted.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 02:39:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Conspiracies
"Just
because people say you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get
you!"
Who said this? Allen Ginsberg? ;-)
I have a feeling
I'm about to piss a number of people off.
So be it. I'm a
big boy. I can take my lumps.
We've all been
witness to a lot of volleying back and forth these last few
weeks regarding
the Great Estate Debate. We've seen
namecalling (plenty of
it!), we've seen
claims and counterclaims, we've seen some pretty clever
humor, we've seen
a lot of disagreement and astonishingly (!) some honest
dialogue. I've got some pretty strong feelings about a
lot of these things
and I'd like to
share them with you.
1). Cease and Desist
I've heard more
than one person say it's time to call off the dogs, this
thread has played
out and certain folks seem damn tired of it.
Usually these
come in the form
of some snide or pernicious remark aimed at one of more of
the people doing
most of the talking and somebody mumbles something about
"pet
diatribes" or "infomercials".
I honestly don't
see what the problem is here. If you
don't want to
participate in
this thread, then there are plenty of other threads to follow
like the
Pranksters or Joy Kicks Darkness and if none of these suit your
fancy, then start
up a new one! Correct me if i'm wrong
but since AG died I
believe Bill
Gargan cranked up the daily message capacity to 100 so I don't
believe we're
gonna run out of space. So if you don't
want to participate
then hit the
delete button! That's why God invented
it!
I'll tell you why
you keep reading, though, most of you anyway.
Because this
thread is damn
interesting! Personalities and flame
wars aside there's a lot
of stuff that's
been learned here I bet you've never heard anywhere else.
And if some of it is honest disinformation,
then so be it, someone who knows
the real scoop
can correct the person who may think they know what they're
talking
about. And it doesn't have to be with
accusations of perpetuating an
"untruth".
It can be as simple as someone saying "here's what I know".
So hit the delete
button if you must, but better yet why not contribute? Say
something
meaningful, take a position! It's easy
to say "a pox on both your
houses". It's work to try to sort thru the muddle,
especially when some
people do their
best to try to obfuscate the real issues by tossing in
irrelevant asides
or outrageous charges.
I'm going to do
everything I can to keep this thread alive.
Why? Because in
the time I've
been on the list I haven't seen one other topic, with the
possible
exception of our coming together as a group when AG died, that is
more important
than this one. I challenge anyone to
demonstrate to me one
other topic that
we have ever discussed that can have a bigger potential
impact than
Kerouac's Archives. And if you don't
care about that, then focus
on the other
threads!
2). Conspiracy
Theories
Regardless of who
used the word "conspiracy" first, I don't see why it's so
hard for people
to believe Gerry Nicosia has felt conspired against. I don't
see anyone trying
to counter his claims Brad Parker's hotel reservations were
cancelled or that
John Sampas called Texas on John Lash's behalf or that
Viking
"coincidently" didn't renew or cancelled his contract (or whatever it
was - must be my
"foggy" memory) on Memory Babe a month after they signed a
six book deal
with John Sampas. That is, after all,
what a conspiracy is.
Two or more
people joining together to the detriment of someone else.
Folks, let me
tell you how I see it. Gerry Nicosia is
the only one IN THE
ARENA! The rest of us sit on our easy chairs with
our feet up and our
laptops on our
knees giving an opinion here and there, pontificating about
the way the world
oughta be, complaining that it is all so damn complicated
and "each
side is as bad as the other only worse".
And where does that get
anyone?
Gerry Nicosia has
done something about this situation!
He's taken action.
He's put his reputation and fortune on the
line and guess what! he's gotten
results! Certain people have heard him, the courts
have heard him. John
Sampas has
stopped selling off Kerouac's archives (outwardly at least, and I
imagine most of
us hope he's not doing it at all anymore).
And I can't
imagine any of this has been easy for Gerry, either. I would
imagine he's been
eating, breathing and living this thing for over five
years. Every day.
You and I have been witness to it for a couple of weeks
in a passive way
only, and then only if we decide to log on.
It grates on me
to hear Chaput's scholarly arguments such as "you're a liar"
and the one line
I'm sure all scholars use regularly "Go Fuck Yourself"
played out on the
same level as Gerry's usually well thought out, reasoned
and cogent
arguments. Does Gerry lose his cool
sometimes? Sure. Has he
said some things
he probably wishes he could take back? I
imagine he has.
But he's contributed a hell of lot more than
"you're a liar" and "na na na
na naa".
Gerry Nicosia is
a force to be reckoned with. Anybody
who's read MEMORY BABE
can tell you
that. And what he says may not always be
pretty, but it rings
true to me. He's shown the arguments of his opponents to
be weak and
ineffective, not
with his credentials (or his big heavy boob as Patricia
might), but with
the strength of his argument.
Seriously, do you
think Jan Kerouac filed this lawsuit on a lark?
Do you
think she was
sitting around the house one Sunday afternoon thinking, "Hmmm,
what should I do
today? Take in a movie? A walk
in the park? I know!
I'll sue John Sampas!" C'mon people, lawsuits are very serious
business not
entered into
lightly by most people.
I wish someone
could tell me what I'm missing here - and with a serious
response, not a
flippant aside. What is it about this
thread that wears on
you? Is it that you feel left out? Then dive in!
Ask questions. Pursue
possibilities. Play Devil's Advocate - but do it with an eye
toward
discovering the
truth! Not with an agenda of hiding what
some may fear will
get out.
3). Scholarship
I don't know
where these Scholarship Wars came from, but I can tell you what
I saw. On the internet, everybody's posts look
equal. And that's fine, we
all have
something to contribute. But when
someone who's total investment in
a situation is
casually looking over a few emails while watching the Disney
Channel and
drinking a six pak makes a post it can carry the same weight as
the post of
someone who has done their research and really knows what they're
talking
about. And that's good in a lot of ways,
but it forces the rest of
us to really
examine the arguments. And some people
are just too lazy to
make the effort
and other people just want to be entertained!
And one person
can put forth
their all only to have what they say dismissed by someone who
doesn't care or
wants to hurt them by quoting them out of context.
Case in
point. A number of people have jumped
all over Nicosia because he
admitted to the
horrible crime that he is human and sometimes fallible. "I
sometimes go from
memory" Gerry said and other people have tried to use that
to show he
doesn't know what he's talking about or doesn't bother to check
his facts. What kind of crap is that? And at least he
responds to the
challenges posed
to him. Jeffery Weinberg never bothered
to answer my
questions about
Jack's raincoat and the "napkin sketch". Nicosia doesn't
dodge issues...
he addresses them head on.
So when Nicosia
clips off his credentials he's simply documenting why his
opinion is
informed with regard to using original manuscripts verses xeroxes.
He's been trained in this, he's had
experience. I don't think he's trying
to say he's
better than anyone else although his "Send Me My Equal" post did
obviously come
off a little strong but he apologized for that almost
immediately. And quite frankly that's the best his
detractors have been able
to do... distract
him for a short period to the point where he
counterattacked
them at their own level. And yet no one
still has made a
sound argument
that he is wrong... only that they are
tired of hearing it.
And I can understand that... if I had
something to hide I'd be tired of
hearing it too!
4). Finale
I'd like to see
something good come out of all this. And
I think it can.
The argument that "there is nothing we
can do, it'll be settled in the
courts" is
weak in my opinion. That's giving up our
own power to make
something
happen. Every individual has the power
to make something happen.
As a group we can raise our collective voices
and DEMAND the truth. We've
learned some new
things just in the last day or two. I
didn't know Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! gets a portion of its funding from John Sampas. I think
that is an
important issue and I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from
some of those
people or if that's why Phil was so passionate in his defense
of John. And if this is "incorrect" I would
hope someone would have the
decency of
telling me it is in error as opposed to calling me a "liar".
Discussing these
issues can bring more truth to light!
Bringing more truth
to light might
have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
to trial.
I honestly and
truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
maybe do it with
the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG died. And
maybe by doing
that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
That's what I'm
about! I've said it before - the issue
is the archives.
You know when I
was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
the first time
with my own eyes I was mesmerized! Here
I was looking thru
this piece of
glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
I was fascinated! Tears welled up in my eyes. I read every word I could
see on it.
That's what I'm
about. The issue is the archives.
Gerry Nicosia
isn't fighting for fame and glory. He's
fighting for you. And
you. And me.
And like I said
before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
have the power to
investigate this. Do we have to be so
fractured that we
can't stand to
look at the truth?
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:07:52 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Duncan Gray
<duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Re: Neal's speed
Hello Beat-lers,
Here's some
information from Richard White concerning Cassady, with regards
to an earlier
post of his. Thank you Charley for
getting him on the list
for a while. I asked for his permission to post this to
beat-l.
A while back
Richard White wrote about his personal experiences with Neal.
>Thanks for
reading and responding. It's from an endless, unending and
>disjointed
history of San Francisco sixties from someone who was reasonably
>detached. In
my real life I'm a Gestalt theorist, a Clinical Director of
>Correctional
Substance Abuse Services, a son, a father, a poet . . .
>
>The line
about Neal doing work that others shouldn't have to do, etc., refers
>to how he
applied strength and energy to living on the edge and in peoples'
>faces.
Although he had his crashes, I never witnessed them. Every time I saw
>him he was
soaring. It could be quite annoying. He also seemed to treat
>everyone he
met with the same indiscretions: he was as busy with my young son
>as he was
with me, as busy with a fallen bum as he was with a rising star.
>With Neal
around, one not only needed to watch one's wife, one needed to
>watch one's
ass, literally, that is.
>
>I'll offer
you an anecdote that I don't think I've ever shared with anyone
>else. I first
met Neal on Gough Street around 1963 or so. I was playing "roll
>the
ball" in the hall with my three year old son and he decided to roll the
>ball into the
adjoining kitchen. The ball rolled under the dining table above
>which sat
three or four people; it came to a stop between short and knobby
>legs in
square, wrinkled cotton pants. I could hear the rapid rap through the
>table top: it
was coming from only one of the group, the guy who was
>providing
pillars for the ball for which I fumbled, and I was fascinated by
>the velocity
of his speech (and also singularly impressed with the content).
>I glanced up toward
his crotch, don't ask me why, and viewed this enormous
>bulge running
down the left pant-leg. At that moment, I thought, "My god,
>it's
Neal".
>
>Richard
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Gray
Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
CSIRO Division of
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:10:06 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson <digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Italian is beautiful, Italy is beautiful,
you are beautiful.
live long and prosper,
make love not war
free speech
e pluribus unum
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:26:31 +1100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Duncan Gray <duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Subject: Ginsberg talking about Cassady compared
to Cobain.
This is sort of
late, but the night before I heard about Allen's death I was
reading an
interview with Allen from a music magazine.
Here's a bit from it;
(Interview by
Stuart Coupe)
"I suggested
to him [Allen] that before the phone call I'd been thinking
about the Beat
Generation and how there was possibly a connection between
Neal
Cassady...and someone like Kurt Cobain, both of whom took a lot of drugs...
"I don't
think that Cassady was a suicide, and I don't think he was as
pained as
Cobain," Ginsberg says. "Cassady was very exuberant and had a good
time. The problem was that towards the end...the
LSD didn't do him any
harm. He smoked grass very strongly, but I think all
his all-night cross
country driving,
with the psychedelic bus and Kesey's Pranksters, I think he
took a lot of
amphetamines. He went down to Mexico to
unwind from that and
took some downers
to calm the nerves and went out walking. I think he passed
a Mexican wedding
where they plied him with some other things and the
combination did
him in. But he was quite a vigorous guy
and not so neurotic
really.
"But Cobain
was a marvelous singer. I hadn't heard
much of him until
towards the end
of his life and then I heard his unplugged version of
Leadbelly's song
and it was such a perfect vocal on that and i was really
moved. It was one of my favourite songs but I only
knew Leadbelly's version
before
that."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Gray
Stored Grain
Research Laboratory
CSIRO Division of
Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601
Ph. (06) 246
4178 Fax (06) 246 4202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:34:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: Michael McClure interview/Bricolage
Celebration!
Sorry this is
such short notice for anyone in the Seattle area, but my
friend Yves, who
is in the new Bricolage as well as a part of this special
reading, only
forwarded this to me today. But, hell, even if you can't make
it, the magazine
will STILL have the Michael McClure interview in it.
Cheers,
Malcs
-----------------------------------
BRICOLAGE PRESENTS
BRICOLAGE 1997: THE 14TH ISSUE
Bricolage, the
University of Washington's student literary arts magazine
proudly presents
its 14th issue at a special reading at the University
Book Store
(Second Floor, Main Branch, University Way) this Friday evening
at 7:00 p.m. Please join us in congratulating the writers
whose works
will appear in
this year's issue, including student writers:
Wendy Duke Kit Gianas
Jason Marc
Harris Deniz Perin
Mary Krutsinger Michael Tuttle
Michal
Carillo Sara Leslie Weiner
Barbara Graham
Barker Amanda Laughtland
Laura Dabe Juliet Crawford
Yves Jaques Heather Wellons
Michael
Ricci Donna Cheeseman
April Pierce Jerod Allen
Deborah Miranda
This year's
Bricolage also features poetry by faculty writers Linda Bierds
and David Shields
and an interview with internationally acclaimed "beat"
poet Michael
McClure.
Copies of
Bricolage will be available for sale at the reading for $6.00.
Get yours signed
by the writers and staff!
Shana
McKibbin Edward Jenkinson Tim Hering Melissa Wensel
Managing
Editor Poetry Editor Fiction Editor Adviser
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 02:36:16 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: A Factual Question
Jerry is the
voice of reason sometimes. i'm not
willing to go as far as
playing devil's
advocate in such a hot-furnace as this yet, but i will
ask a simple
question for clarification.
Are the
"Kerouac materials" currently the legal property of John
Sampas?
david rhaesa
Jerry Cimino
wrote:
>
> "Just
because people say you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get
> you!"
> Who said this? Allen Ginsberg? ;-)
>
> I have a
feeling I'm about to piss a number of people off. So be it.
I'm a
> big
boy. I can take my lumps.
>
> We've all
been witness to a lot of volleying back and forth these last few
> weeks
regarding the Great Estate Debate. We've
seen namecalling (plenty of
> it!), we've
seen claims and counterclaims, we've seen some pretty clever
> humor, we've
seen a lot of disagreement and astonishingly (!) some honest
>
dialogue. I've got some pretty strong
feelings about a lot of these things
> and I'd like
to share them with you.
>
> 1). Cease and Desist
> I've heard
more than one person say it's time to call off the dogs, this
> thread has
played out and certain folks seem damn tired of it. Usually these
> come in the
form of some snide or pernicious remark aimed at one of more of
> the people
doing most of the talking and somebody mumbles something about
> "pet
diatribes" or "infomercials".
>
> I honestly
don't see what the problem is here. If
you don't want to
> participate
in this thread, then there are plenty of other threads to follow
> like the
Pranksters or Joy Kicks Darkness and if none of these suit your
> fancy, then
start up a new one! Correct me if i'm
wrong but since AG died I
> believe Bill
Gargan cranked up the daily message capacity to 100 so I don't
> believe
we're gonna run out of space. So if you
don't want to participate
> then hit the
delete button! That's why God invented
it!
>
> I'll tell
you why you keep reading, though, most of you anyway. Because this
> thread is
damn interesting! Personalities and
flame wars aside there's a lot
> of stuff
that's been learned here I bet you've never heard anywhere else.
> And if some of it is honest disinformation,
then so be it, someone who knows
> the real
scoop can correct the person who may think they know what they're
> talking
about. And it doesn't have to be with
accusations of perpetuating an
>
"untruth". It can be as simple as someone saying "here's what I
know".
>
> So hit the
delete button if you must, but better yet why not contribute? Say
> something
meaningful, take a position! It's easy
to say "a pox on both your
>
houses". It's work to try to sort
thru the muddle, especially when some
> people do
their best to try to obfuscate the real issues by tossing in
> irrelevant
asides or outrageous charges.
>
> I'm going to
do everything I can to keep this thread alive.
Why? Because in
> the time
I've been on the list I haven't seen one other topic, with the
> possible
exception of our coming together as a group when AG died, that is
> more
important than this one. I challenge
anyone to demonstrate to me one
> other topic
that we have ever discussed that can have a bigger potential
> impact than
Kerouac's Archives. And if you don't
care about that, then focus
> on the other
threads!
>
> 2).
Conspiracy Theories
> Regardless
of who used the word "conspiracy" first, I don't see why it's so
> hard for
people to believe Gerry Nicosia has felt conspired against. I don't
> see anyone
trying to counter his claims Brad Parker's hotel reservations were
> cancelled or
that John Sampas called Texas on John Lash's behalf or that
> Viking
"coincidently" didn't renew or cancelled his contract (or whatever it
> was - must
be my "foggy" memory) on Memory Babe a month after they signed a
> six book
deal with John Sampas. That is, after
all, what a conspiracy is.
> Two or more
people joining together to the detriment of someone else.
>
> Folks, let
me tell you how I see it. Gerry Nicosia
is the only one IN THE
> ARENA! The rest of us sit on our easy chairs with
our feet up and our
> laptops on
our knees giving an opinion here and there, pontificating about
> the way the
world oughta be, complaining that it is all so damn complicated
> and
"each side is as bad as the other only worse". And where does that get
> anyone?
>
> Gerry
Nicosia has done something about this situation! He's taken action.
> He's put his reputation and fortune on the
line and guess what! he's gotten
>
results! Certain people have heard him,
the courts have heard him. John
> Sampas has
stopped selling off Kerouac's archives (outwardly at least, and I
> imagine most
of us hope he's not doing it at all anymore).
>
> And I can't
imagine any of this has been easy for Gerry, either. I would
> imagine he's
been eating, breathing and living this thing for over five
> years. Every day.
You and I have been witness to it for a couple of weeks
> in a passive
way only, and then only if we decide to log on.
>
> It grates on
me to hear Chaput's scholarly arguments such as "you're a liar"
> and the one
line I'm sure all scholars use regularly "Go Fuck Yourself"
> played out
on the same level as Gerry's usually well thought out, reasoned
> and cogent
arguments. Does Gerry lose his cool
sometimes? Sure. Has he
> said some
things he probably wishes he could take back?
I imagine he has.
> But he's contributed a hell of lot more than
"you're a liar" and "na na na
> na
naa".
>
> Gerry
Nicosia is a force to be reckoned with.
Anybody who's read MEMORY BABE
> can tell you
that. And what he says may not always be
pretty, but it rings
> true to
me. He's shown the arguments of his
opponents to be weak and
> ineffective,
not with his credentials (or his big heavy boob as Patricia
> might), but
with the strength of his argument.
>
> Seriously,
do you think Jan Kerouac filed this lawsuit on a lark? Do you
> think she
was sitting around the house one Sunday afternoon thinking, "Hmmm,
> what should
I do today? Take in a movie? A walk
in the park? I know!
> I'll sue John Sampas!" C'mon people, lawsuits are very serious
business not
> entered into
lightly by most people.
>
> I wish
someone could tell me what I'm missing here - and with a serious
> response,
not a flippant aside. What is it about
this thread that wears on
> you? Is it that you feel left out? Then dive in!
Ask questions. Pursue
>
possibilities. Play Devil's Advocate -
but do it with an eye toward
> discovering
the truth! Not with an agenda of hiding
what some may fear will
> get out.
>
> 3). Scholarship
> I don't know
where these Scholarship Wars came from, but I can tell you what
> I saw. On the internet, everybody's posts look
equal. And that's fine, we
> all have
something to contribute. But when
someone who's total investment in
> a situation
is casually looking over a few emails while watching the Disney
> Channel and
drinking a six pak makes a post it can carry the same weight as
> the post of
someone who has done their research and really knows what they're
> talking
about. And that's good in a lot of ways,
but it forces the rest of
> us to really
examine the arguments. And some people
are just too lazy to
> make the
effort and other people just want to be entertained! And one person
> can put
forth their all only to have what they say dismissed by someone who
> doesn't care
or wants to hurt them by quoting them out of context.
>
> Case in
point. A number of people have jumped
all over Nicosia because he
> admitted to the
horrible crime that he is human and sometimes fallible. "I
> sometimes go
from memory" Gerry said and other people have tried to use that
> to show he
doesn't know what he's talking about or doesn't bother to check
> his
facts. What kind of crap is that? And at
least he responds to the
> challenges
posed to him. Jeffery Weinberg never
bothered to answer my
> questions
about Jack's raincoat and the "napkin sketch". Nicosia doesn't
> dodge
issues... he addresses them head on.
>
> So when
Nicosia clips off his credentials he's simply documenting why his
> opinion is
informed with regard to using original manuscripts verses xeroxes.
> He's been trained in this, he's had
experience. I don't think he's trying
> to say he's
better than anyone else although his "Send Me My Equal" post did
> obviously
come off a little strong but he apologized for that almost
>
immediately. And quite frankly that's
the best his detractors have been able
> to do...
distract him for a short period to the point where he
>
counterattacked them at their own level.
And yet no one still has made a
> sound
argument that he is wrong... only that
they are tired of hearing it.
> And I can understand that... if I had
something to hide I'd be tired of
> hearing it
too!
>
> 4). Finale
> I'd like to
see something good come out of all this.
And I think it can.
> The argument that "there is nothing we
can do, it'll be settled in the
> courts"
is weak in my opinion. That's giving up
our own power to make
> something
happen. Every individual has the power
to make something happen.
> As a group we can raise our collective voices
and DEMAND the truth. We've
> learned some
new things just in the last day or two.
I didn't know Lowell
> Celebrates
Kerouac! gets a portion of its funding from John Sampas. I think
> that is an
important issue and I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from
> some of
those people or if that's why Phil was so passionate in his defense
> of
John. And if this is
"incorrect" I would hope someone would have the
> decency of
telling me it is in error as opposed to calling me a "liar".
>
> Discussing
these issues can bring more truth to light!
Bringing more truth
> to light
might have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
> to trial.
>
> I honestly
and truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
> maybe do it
with the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG died. And
> maybe by
doing that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
>
> That's what
I'm about! I've said it before - the
issue is the archives.
>
> You know
when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
> the first
time with my own eyes I was mesmerized!
Here I was looking thru
> this piece
of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
> I was fascinated! Tears welled up in my eyes. I read every word I could
> see on it.
>
> That's what
I'm about. The issue is the archives.
>
> Gerry
Nicosia isn't fighting for fame and glory.
He's fighting for you. And
> you. And me.
>
> And like I
said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
> have the
power to investigate this. Do we have to
be so fractured that we
> can't stand
to look at the truth?
>
> Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:02:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Motivations
Howard,
I have no doubt
Sampas, Chaput, Anstee and many others have a sincere love of
Kerouac's legacy,
the man and his work. Obviously John
Sampas knew Jack.
Don't know if Phil or Rod did or did not. I can give some ideas for
motivations,
though.
1). Sampas hasn't sold off any items since the
lawsuit was brought (that I'm
aware of and/or
that is publicly known) (and if I'm wrong on that I'm sure
someone will
point it out by calling me a "liar") because Jan and Gerry
focused public
attention on his actions. By telling the
world he was selling
things off they
forced him into a position where he had to curtail that. My
worry is he's
still selling things off, things the world never heard of and
never will. And if the will is judged to be forged those
items will be lost
forever.
2). Rod Anstee may be embarrassed or feel guilty
because he bought some of
these items from
Sampas. Now I've got no truck with Rod
on this. He's doing
what collectors
do, acquiring things they're interested in.
And I would
assume he bought
anything he bought thinking they were legitimate purchases.
Nothing wrong with that, the same way there is
nothing wrong with Jeffrey
Weinberg acting
as a dealer on what I'm sure he believed to be legitimate
transations.
3). I've got no ax to grind with Phil
either. Atilla says he's a good guy
and I've met
Atilla and will accept his vouching for Phil.
But if John
Sampas is a
patron of LCK! and Phil's a part of that, it may be a reason why
he's in Sampas'
corner. That and the fact that he knows
John personally and
does not believe
he could be capable of what he's being accused of.
My question is
what are the motivations of so many who are silent? There's
been enough
discussion on this so that everyone should have been able to form
an opinion. I'm just sorry to see so many unwilling to
voice them. We can
fight over
whether "Pink Floyd Rocks" but we can't fight over this? Saying
it's "too
complicated" is a cop out. Saying
"everybody is dirty" is a cop
out. Saying it's
taking too long is a cop out. This
situation is serious and
saying "I
don't want to be bothered" is not going to make it go away.
Levi just asked
on a message "Why all the pointed energy on this thread?
Does any of this really matter?" That's the Buddhist in him talking.
Well, it may not
matter to old Jack and Jan and Gerard and Gabrielle and
Stella and Sammy.
They're all up there "Safe in Heaven, Dead", probably
looking down
knowing how it's all gonna turn out anyway, laughing at how
we're all locked
into our positions as we cross swords over this.
But we're all
down here on earth, and for the living and for the yet to be
living, I for one
say, "Yeah. It matters."
Some things are
worth fighting for.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:09:21 GMT
Reply-To: i12bent@sprog.auc.dk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "B. Sorensen"
<i12bent@SPROG.AUC.DK>
Subject: Solomon's Mishaps
On Thu, 15 May
1997 19:50:54 -0400,
Pamela Beach
Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-15 11:44:54 EDT, you write:
>
><< I'm
posting some of his pieces from More Mishaps (City Lights, 1968)
> that concern
themselves with the Beat Generation, and with reading. >>
>
>If you check
out the copyright page that book was first published by Beach
>Books, Texts
& Documents. They also published APO-33 by WSB. I don't believe
>LF would have
touched that book if Claude and Mary hadn't pointed the way.
>I have fond
memories of Carl visiting us here in Cherry Valley. He came to
>fish at the
Committee.
>Pam Plymell
Thanks for
specifying the publishing history. I found it amusing that
Ferlighetti
published a book containing the lines:
I am somewhat disappointed in Ferlinghetti.
The true Dada would have
been to have gone
across Russia on horseback.
Cheers,
bs
Department of
Languages and Intercultural Studies
Aalborg
University, Denmark
http://www.hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.uk.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:24:24 +0200
Reply-To: danneman@Update.UU.SE
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Daniel Brdttemark
<danneman@UPDATE.UU.SE>
Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY
FROM ITALY with love.
This thread
reminds me of a discussion we had on the list a while ago
about Kerouac
translating the the french sections in Visions of Cody.
Why didn't he
stick to english?
Why did he bother
to translate them? Mixing languages is interesting
'cause the
translation doesn't say the same thing. The nuances are
different and
some feelings will get lost along the way. I understand
Rinaldo's
dilemma, he wants to say so much but it doesn't come out the
way he wants it
to in english, frustrating. Also when you use a
different
language or dialect you do it for a reason. Everybody will not
understand it.
Some people will bother to figure it out, others will
ignore it. I
think mixing languages in poetry is great, in prose
sometimes not so
great. But where do we draw the line
prose-poetry-listentry-conversation.
Why draw the line anyway.
Tack for
uppmarksamheten. Krama varandra pa listan (: (: (:
Daniel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:06:59 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Jerry's post
I would like to
thank Jerry for the most recent of a series of very
level-headed
summaries of the recent discussion on the list. I'd agree that
in two years on
this list it's by far the most important topic discussed,
perhaps not the
most fun (certainly not the most annoying) but important.
I would add one
thing only. Someone wrote in and said 'let's forget about
all this estate
stuff and just read the books'. Well until the whole damn
lot goes into
public domain what you read and how it's presented and what's
left out and what
is 'removed from print', what is translated and how,
what's allowed on
web sites, what letters are published and how
censored/edited
they are, will be determined by the estate and the
publisher. So how
that estate operates should be a matter of concern to all.
The publication
channel has clearly opened up since Stella Sampas died, but
if it's true as
alleged that the Letters were edited under the estate's
control that's
very sad indeed - but hardly unusual.
Yes, it is a sad
irony of this society that of all the writers whose estate
should turn out
to be problematic, it should be Jack Kerouac's. But that's
not a good enough
reason to just let the matter drop. From my reading of
bios etc, it would
seem that JK really felt he was leaving a great legacy of
writing to the
world, to us, and it's important that those who care try and
influence as much
as possible the best handling of that legacy.
Nick W-W
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:30:20 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Something completely different #2
s.a. griffin
wrote:
>
> At 07:51 AM
5/15/97 -0500, david rhaesa wrote:
> >i
enjoyed reading the varied posts from varied voices on the lists. it
> >seems
that the first thread (something #1) is partially devoted to
> >whether
students can handle the material, whether high schools should be
> >burned
and whatnot. this seems a relevant area
to question in the
> >process
of determining whether to work for "incorporation" (rather than
> >pushing)
beat litearture into the high school curriculum.
> >
> >so far,
the suggestions of "railroad earth" and "on the road" have
been
>
>mentioned. there are some who feel
that other materials might not make
> >it by
the school boards. that is probably a
concern. it is more likely
> >that one
would be working towards the textbook editors at first.
> >
> >so I'm
asking a second kind of question in "something completely
>
>different #2". Assuming, that
we did want to put forth some effort in
> >this
direction, what besides "Railroad Earth" would be recommended
>
>suggestions to encourage being excerpted into Survey Type Readers of
> >American
Literature to provide a "taste" of this rich material.
> >
> >i seem
to agree that secondary literature courses beyond the initial
> >survey
should be highly optional. Besides ON
ROUTE, what beat materials
> >seem
possible to get on optional readings lists.
This question probably
> >involves
considering community standards a bit more.
Is Kerouac the
> >only
possible introduction the students could get their hands on in the
>
>classroom? It seems that Burroughs'
material unless excerpted into a
> >Burroughs'
reader for this purpose would be nearly impossible to get
> >past the
moral guard. i'd be interested in others
opinions on what the
> >best
types in each of these categories might be.
> >
> >i
appreciate y'alls response. this is not
an attempt to jump off the
> >bridge
at Big Sur concerning the "Something #1" thread. I'll take some
> >time
over the next day and begin to think more actively about all the
> >comments
and suggestions made and continue to post to that thread as
>
>well. i am only attempting to
provide two different threads of focus on
> >this
matter.
> >
> >david
rhaesa
> >salina
kansas
> >
> >not sure
if i'm persona non-grata at the high school anymore or not.
> >told the
principal he was running a prison and not a school (a result of
> >a bit of
mania and having read too much Ivan Illich on education; and
> >because
it was TRUE). i think i'm accepted in
certain parts of the
> >building
to do some local investigation.
> >
> >david
rhaesa
> >
> >
> railroad in
oct. earth is a winner. how about watts/beat zen . . . or
>
ferlinghetti: starting from s.f. &
coney island? i don't remember any of
> these being
too rugged for hi school. maybe even as
a period piece for some
> good
discussion mailer's white negro? or how about we on this list come up
> with some
"suitable" stuff and put together some kind of "anthology"
for
> open study
in schools? hmmmm....... how about it?
once again we have an
> opportunity
to be constructive instead destructive with our collective
>
minds/imagination. gee, there's an idea, let's be creative & constructive.
> ideas like
this make me happy. in the words of rodney the king, "can't we
> all just get
along?" great to hear from the younger set with their opinions
> and experience.
I myself being a card carrying geek/dork in jr. high & high
> school spent
countless hours in the library discovering many great things
> that nobody
taught in class. of course when really
do schools teach one to
> think?
>
> xxxooo
> s.a.
ambitious
thoughts. i wouldn't know much at all
about the practical
matters. the only nightmare that hit me during the
night is that such a
reader would
probably be expected to have something of an answer to the
"ohhhhh
NOOOOO" question. what is beat
generation literature???? i
would suggest
that such a thing be an epilogue and draw from the
previous rather
than a prologue. perhaps the Holmes
thing at the end
too????
it would be nice
if such a reader could include excerpts from "the big 5
or was it big
15"?..... don't know whether
grouping by individual or by
theme would make
more sense ... something to meditate about i imagine.
i defer
completely to y'all and your expertise in such a project. i'm
more than willing
to attempt to help focus and re-focus matters somewhat
now and
then. my voice would be more of someone
reasonably new to this
subject matter
and perhaps that is a useful one in thinking about the
prospective
audiences.
a previous
suggestion about cultural elements is also something which
could serve as
guides to organizational schemes.
i must go to the
post office for a registered letter.
always get
nervous about
such things.... :)
david rhaesa
p.s. i still am committed to working through the
notions expressed on
something
completely different #1 in a fairly systematic method of
response as soon
as my brain hits systematic form again.
this is
certainly a more
important project for me than giving gerry nicosia
headaches.
Read while
listening to "My Back Pages"
..... :) any letter can use a
soundtrack
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:59:53 +0200
Reply-To: smeraldo@iol.it
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ufficio Stampa Teatro Smeraldo
<smeraldo@IOL.IT>
Organization:
Teatro Smeraldo
Subject: THE FALL OF AMERICA
Hello everybody!
This message to
communicate you that on May 21 1997, in Milan (Italy) at
Circolo Porte
Aperte, Via Gian Giacomo Mora 3, there will be a reading
concert titled
"The Fall of America", after Allen Ginsberg's poetic
corpus. The
reading will be accompanied by three great jazz musicians:
Beppe Aliprandi
(alto sax), Daniele Cavallanti (tenor sax) and Tiziano
Tononi (drums).
They will play jazz tunes after Ornette Coleman (free
jazz). I will be
the reader; this one is the last reading concert of
mine after three
previous dedicated to Beat poets (Ferlinghetti, Jones,
Kerouac). This
concert has been performed last May, 2nd in Florence
(Italy) at City
Lights Bookshop, after Lawrence Ferlinghetti's reading.
If there is
someone especially interested in the relationship between
jazz and Beat
poetry, contact me! I will be glad to talk and discuss.
This is our best
way to honorate Allen: his voice will never die...
Love to
everybody,
:.) Laura
--
Laura Moja
Ufficio Stampa
Teatro Smeraldo
smeraldo.press@iol.it
http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:39:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dale F. Smith"
<dale@PCANYTHING.COM>
Subject: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
Are we not
pissing on Jack's grave by even worying about all this? This is
against
everything he ever stood for (so far as I've been able to tell.) He
taught us to be
free, to love life and to remember that all of everything we
do is meaninless
in the mind of the universe (allthough I can't say that
*he* was
meaningless in the mind of the universe.)
Do we really care if the
archive dies
(enter the "100 years from now" thingamagig)? Should we be
stressed
out? Isn't a "scholar"
spending hours of the day inside a library
piecing together
his concept of what Kerouac did and why instead of going
outside,
breathing in the air and screaming at the top of his lungs that he
loves his life defeating
everything he learned from Kerouac? Or
did he
learn
anything. Maybe what books were on
Jack's shelf when he wrote OTR,
but not much
else. Why would someone buy (for a high
price) ANYTHING that
Kerouac
owned? Did they really understand him? Would Jack have paid a
million dollars
for Uncle Walt's Raincoat? Would he have
paid a dime?
I do not mean to
belittle the work of Mr. Nicosia and the likes.
I think
what they are
doing is good. I would read a
"scholarly" book on the works
of Kerouac. But I would not loose sleep if there were no
such book. In any
case, Jack will
move on, in the words he left behind, and that is what I
care about the
most.
Dale F. Smith
dale@pcanything.com
The darkness
drops again; but now I know
That twenty
centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to
nightmere by a rocking cradle,
And what rough
beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards
Bethlehem to be born?
---W.B. Yeats
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:15:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re:
Motivations
In a message
dated 97-05-16 08:07:36 EDT, you write:
<< Some
things are worth fighting for. >>
What if somebody
started a fight on the Beat list, and nobody came?
Jul
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:31:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
At 01:29 AM
5/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Since it
seems to be important to someone that somebody named Johnny Depp
>>did not
pay 50K for a raincoat, how much did he pay?
>
This question was
addressed to a Jeffery Weinberg who makes a point of
indicating that
he thinks it is important that someone named Johnny Deep did
not pay 50,000
for a raincoat.
It was not
addressed to Jo Grant.
>Lazy
webmaster? Nah.
>
> Not true.
>
>Unskilled, a
novice, more at home with a wheel barrow loaded with paving
>stones than
computer technology, YEH. But not lazy.
>
>Disorganized,
not efficient in allocating my time, YEH. Those for sure. But
>not lazy, and not a webmaster--yet.
>
>You're taking
too much for Granted.
>
>j grant
>
>
>
>
> BE ON THE WATCH
>for items
stolen from the Keroauc Collection
> O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
>http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
>
>Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
> display books free at
> <http://www.bookzen.com>
> 302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:47:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: From the mouth of babe
From, _Heaven
& Other Poems_ - Jack Kerouac
a snippet from:
[BIOGRAPHICAL
RESUME, FALL 1957]
"I have been
writing my heart out all my life, but only
getting a living
out of it now, and the attacks are coming
in thick. A lot of people are mad and jealous and
bitter and
I only hope they
also can be heard by an expanding
publishing
program the size of Russia's. Because
it's not
a question of the
merit of art, but a question of sponteneity
and sincerity and
joy I say. I would like everybody in the
world to tell his
full life confession and tell it HIS OWN WAY
(Jack's caps, not
mine) and then we'd have something to
read in our old
age, instead of the hesitations and cavilings
of "men of
letters" with blear faces who only alter words that
the Angel brought
them..."
Jack Kerouac
~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Interesting
tidbit in regards to the editing of "letters"
etc.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:41:38 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To: <199705161539.LAA00675@pcanything.com>
Yeah, thanks for
the Yeats (the Irish Burroughs!) too:
The best lack all
conviction, while
the worst are full of passionate intensity.
I wasn't
gonna mention
this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes, found at
the Good
Will. My question is, should I try to
walk in them or put them
behind plexiglass
and stare at them for the rest of my life? (I'm fully
capable of doing
either, usually the latter. I always
meant to climb a
mountain, but
have decided to wait until it collapses and step over it.)
John <Be
cool! And if you can't be cool, don't
drool!> M.
>Are we not
pissing on Jack's grave by even worying about all this? This is
>against
everything he ever stood for (so far as I've been able to tell.) He
>taught us to
be free, to love life and to remember that all of everything we
>do is
meaninless in the mind of the universe (allthough I can't say that
>*he* was
meaningless in the mind of the universe.)
Do we really care if the
>archive dies
(enter the "100 years from now" thingamagig)? Should we be
>stressed
out? Isn't a "scholar"
spending hours of the day inside a library
>piecing
together his concept of what Kerouac did and why instead of going
>outside,
breathing in the air and screaming at the top of his lungs that he
>loves his
life defeating everything he learned from Kerouac? Or did he
>learn
anything. Maybe what books were on
Jack's shelf when he wrote OTR,
>but not much
else. Why would someone buy (for a high
price) ANYTHING that
>Kerouac
owned? Did they really understand
him? Would Jack have paid a
>million
dollars for Uncle Walt's Raincoat? Would
he have paid a dime?
>
>I do not mean
to belittle the work of Mr. Nicosia and the likes. I think
>what they are
doing is good. I would read a
"scholarly" book on the works
>of
Kerouac. But I would not loose sleep if
there were no such book. In any
>case, Jack
will move on, in the words he left behind, and that is what I
>care about
the most.
>
>
>Dale F. Smith
>dale@pcanything.com
>
>The darkness
drops again; but now I know
>That twenty
centuries of stony sleep
>Were vexed to
nightmere by a rocking cradle,
>And what
rough beast, its hour come round at last,
>Slouches
towards Bethlehem to be born?
>
>---W.B. Yeats
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:47:28 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
John Mitchell
wrote:
>
> Yeah, thanks
for the Yeats (the Irish Burroughs!) too:
The best lack all
> conviction,
while the worst are full of passionate intensity. I wasn't
> gonna
mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes, found at
> the Good
Will. My question is, should I try to
walk in them or put them
> behind
plexiglass and stare at them for the rest of my life? (I'm fully
> capable of
doing either, usually the latter. I
always meant to climb a
> mountain,
but have decided to wait until it collapses and step over it.)
>
> John <Be
cool! And if you can't be cool, don't
drool!> M.
>
i just got
through scribbling JK in every piece of old clothing in the
closet. most was bought at salvation army's and other
thrifts. it
might have been
worn by Jack. it is probably more likely
than the moon
being made of
green cheese ..... please let me sell something in my JK
auction before
the truth gets out :)
david rhaesa
read listening to
Leonard Cohen "Jazz Police"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:11:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afa258b65edc@[141.224.144.84]>
On Fri, 16 May 1997,
John Mitchell wrote:
>I wasn't
gonna mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes,
>found at the
Good Will.
Just curious: how
did you identify them as his?
Speaking of all
things Kerouac, how is it spelled -- is it "Kerouacian,"
like I've seen on
the list as of late, or "Kerouackian"? First time I saw it
was with the
"ck" and I thought it looked weird & wrong, but now every time
I see
"Kerouacian" I think it's goofy too -- every time I mentally
pronounce
it
"care-oo-ay-see-en."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:22:55 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS (the dark side of
a beet)
In-Reply-To: <9705160710.AA24843@ellensburg.com>
dear friends
beat,
everything is
a-perfect, i'm a-perfect, u're a-perfect,
why the death of
a mosquito is a-perfect? why u are
pulling the screw
in the coffin, dark shame in the ground,
BROTHERS who
loves a beet?, keep my head in the hands, come
faccio a scrivere
ancora e ancora e ancora... Red Charlie
pop up Parker,
red twilight, rosso tramonto veneziano,
i read JK in
american or in italian, how many JK there are
in the worlds,
cage is on the street... Red Cage... go on!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:16:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
In-Reply-To: <970516023952_-1967945910@emout14.mail.aol.com>
On 05-16-97 Jerry
Cimino wrote:
>>>
>Discussing
these issues can bring more truth to light!
Bringing more truth
>to light
might have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
>to trial.
>
>I honestly
and truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
>maybe do it
with the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG died. And
>maybe by
doing that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
>
>That's what
I'm about! I've said it before - the
issue is the archives.
>
>You know when
I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
>the first
time with my own eyes I was mesmerized!
Here I was looking thru
>this piece of
glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
> I was
fascinated! Tears welled up in my
eyes. I read every word I could
>see on it.
>
>That's what
I'm about. The issue is the archives.
>
>Gerry Nicosia
isn't fighting for fame and glory. He's
fighting for you. And
>you. And me.
>
>And like I
said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
>have the
power to investigate this. Do we have to
be so fractured that we
>can't stand
to look at the truth?
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
Jerry,
You have really
spelled it out. THE ISSUE IS THE ARCHIVES.
Although I have
never met Gerry Nicosia (I plan to do so at the VVAW
Conference in
Chicago soon) I admire him and will support him as he carries
out Jan Keroauc's
wishes. I will go all the way, for Jan. My relationship
with her was all
telephone, but during her last year we spoke frequently
and soon became
confidants. She was so alone. She spoke of Gerry with
reverence and
told me about how he had helped her again and again--even
during periods
when the pain of her health problems made her impossible to
get along with.
Jan told me,
"He [Gerry] has never asked me for
anything. He and Ellen
have always come
through for me when I needed help."
There were times
when she would just sit with the phone in her hand and cry.
Shortly after I
added the information about the NYU debacle she asked me if
I would edit out
those parts that described her life when she was younger.
I called Gerry
and asked him if he'd mind if I deleted parts. He pointed
out that those
items were directly from Jan. I knew that, Jan had told me.
But she wanted to
put it behind her. It existed in her book, but at this
point in her life
she didn't want to see it. Gerry agreed. I edited it out.
It made her
happy.
There's no need
for me to reiterate my position on the archives of
historically important writers. I feel as strongly about
the writings of
Meridel LeSueur
as I do Jack Kerouac. I personally own more video taped
material of
Meridel LeSueur than anyone. Sure it cost money of the years to
be there with a
camera, time and money, and I own it. But I've told
Meridel's family
that once I have the video edited and ready for
broadcast--Public
TV wants to show it--everything, masters, dubs, final
product will be
placed, at no cost, with the rest of her collections at the
Minnesota
Historical Society, with copies to U of Iowa Special Collections.
To place a
price-tag on what Meridel gave to me would be disrespectful to
her memory.
Meridel belongs
to the people. Prolitarian to the core.
Kerouac belongs to the people. Prolitarian to
the core? People with
literary
backgrounds may have things to say about using that word to
describe him. I'd
like to hear more.
Finally, I have
had to make some modifications to my computer system since
connecting to the
Beat List. Every day there is information I am compeled
to save for
future reference. Ideas, insights, opinions--fascinating stuff.
And what a
membership!
Every day, more
people are agreeing that the Kerouac Archives must be
saved. The Beat-L
will be a big part of making it possible.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:48:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Jo Grant: A lazy webmaster
In-Reply-To: <199705161631.JAA08195@hsc.usc.edu>
>This question
was addressed to a Jeffery Weinberg who makes a point of
>indicating
that he thinks it is important that someone named Johnny Deep did
>not pay
50,000 for a raincoat.
>
>It was not
addressed to Jo Grant.
Thanks for the
clarification.
jo
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:50:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: The editing of Kerouac's Selected Letters
Dear Beat-L
members:
For those of you
that are concerned about the supposed editing of Kerouac's
letters by
Charters before publication in the Viking Penguin edition, or for
those of you who
may want to delve abit deeper into the topic of possible
censorship by the
JK Estate of the volume of letters -
Rod Anstee wrote
a long review (9-10 pgs) about "Selected Letters", including
his
research on
editing by Ann Charters. This essay was published as an issue of
the Water Row
Review a few years ago.
If you would like
to receive a free copy of this essay, send me your request
by email.
This offer good
only while the limited supply lasts.
Thanks -
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:03:14 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
Jeffrey, Please!
I know we're on
opposite sides of the fence on certain issues, but please get
me one of
these. I truly am trying to conduct my
own independent research as
has been suggested
by so many.
Jerry Cimino
P.O. 48
Monterey, CA 93940
Thanks,
JC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:50:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
At 02:50 PM
5/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Beat-L
members:
>
>For those of
you that are concerned about the supposed editing of Kerouac's
>letters by
Charters before publication in the Viking Penguin edition, or for
>those of you
who may want to delve abit deeper into the topic of possible
>censorship by
the JK Estate of the volume of letters -
>
>Rod Anstee
wrote a long review (9-10 pgs) about "Selected Letters", including
>his
>research on
editing by Ann Charters. This essay was published as an issue of
>the Water Row
Review a few years ago.
>
>If you would
like to receive a free copy of this essay, send me your request
>by email.
>This offer
good only while the limited supply lasts.
>
>Thanks -
>
>Jeffrey
Weinberg
>Water Row
Books
>Hi Jeff, May
I receive a copy? Thanks, Paul....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:42:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
In a message
dated 97-05-16 15:23:09 EDT, you write:
<< Jeffrey,
Please!
I know we're on opposite sides of the fence on
certain issues, but please
get
me one of these. I truly am trying to conduct my own
independent research
as
has been suggested by so many.
>>
Hey, Jerry:
No problem, man.
I'll put a copy of Anstee's essay in the mail to you today.
JW
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:46:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Rod Anstee's essay
I forgot to
mention to the Beat-L:
I need your
snail-mail address to send you Rod's essay on JK's Selected
Letters book. It
is a booklet that we published a few years ago.
Thanks -
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:04:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
At 01:16 PM
5/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On 05-16-97
Jerry Cimino wrote:
>>>>
>>Discussing
these issues can bring more truth to light!
Bringing more truth
>>to light
might have an impact on the situation either before or when it goes
>>to trial.
>>
>>I
honestly and truly believe we can debate and discuss these issues, and
>>maybe do
it with the same sense of "sharing" that we did when AG died. And
>>maybe by
doing that we can help preserve Jack's Archives.
>>
>>That's
what I'm about! I've said it before -
the issue is the archives.
>>
>>You know
when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
>>the first
time with my own eyes I was mesmerized!
Here I was looking thru
>>this
piece of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years ago.
>> I was
fascinated! Tears welled up in my
eyes. I read every word I could
>>see on
it.
>>
>>That's
what I'm about. The issue is the archives.
>>
>>Gerry
Nicosia isn't fighting for fame and glory.
He's fighting for you. And
>>you. And me.
>>
>>And like
I said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? We
>>have the
power to investigate this. Do we have to
be so fractured that we
>>can't
stand to look at the truth?
>>
>>
The truth? The
problem with stating the truth is that the truth will get you
blasted,
threatened, ridiculed, and above all, doubted. I sincerely think
the idea of a
conspiracy is ill-founded. The signature on the will looks
like any of the
other items that are from Gabrielle Kerouac's hand AFTER HER
STROKE. I don't
think matching it before she was an invalid is valid and
admittable as
evidence.
>And it is not
fair. I had the liberty of seeing letters and contracts from
the archive and
now I can see what a horrible waste of time this all is. So
there...blast me.
I could care less right now for explanations or ways to
make me look
foolish or branded an arch-criminal. My educated mind tells me
different than
all the propaganda you have been fed. I inquired, I saw, I am
now convinced.
Goodnight all, Regards, Paul Maher of The Kerouac Quarterly...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:57:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS (the dark
side of a beet)
At 08:22 PM
5/16/97 +0200, you wrote:
>dear friends
beat,
>everything is
a-perfect, i'm a-perfect, u're a-perfect,
>why the death
of a mosquito is a-perfect? why u are
>pulling the
screw in the coffin, dark shame in the ground,
>BROTHERS who
loves a beet?, keep my head in the hands, come
>faccio a
scrivere ancora e ancora e ancora... Red Charlie
>pop up
Parker, red twilight, rosso tramonto veneziano,
>i read JK in
american or in italian, how many JK there are
>in the
worlds, cage is on the street... Red Cage... go on!
>
rinaldo
is
beautiful
eye am dumb
beet soup is
sweet
john cage is
is on the
street
i am dumb
iam dumb
iamdumb
dumb
dum
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:57:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
At 12:41 PM
5/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Yeah, thanks
for the Yeats (the Irish Burroughs!) too:
The best lack all
>conviction,
while the worst are full of passionate intensity. I wasn't
>gonna mention
this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes, found at
>the Good
Will. My question is, should I try to
walk in them or put them
>behind
plexiglass and stare at them for the rest of my life? (I'm fully
>capable of
doing either, usually the latter. I
always meant to climb a
>mountain, but
have decided to wait until it collapses and step over it.)
>
>John <Be
cool! And if you can't be cool, don't
drool!> M.
>
>
>>Are we
not pissing on Jack's grave by even worying about all this? This is
>>against
everything he ever stood for (so far as I've been able to tell.) He
>>taught us
to be free, to love life and to remember that all of everything we
>>do is
meaninless in the mind of the universe (allthough I can't say that
>>*he* was
meaningless in the mind of the universe.)
Do we really care if the
>>archive
dies (enter the "100 years from now" thingamagig)? Should we be
>>stressed
out? Isn't a "scholar"
spending hours of the day inside a library
>>piecing
together his concept of what Kerouac did and why instead of going
>>outside,
breathing in the air and screaming at the top of his lungs that he
>>loves his
life defeating everything he learned from Kerouac? Or did he
>>learn
anything. Maybe what books were on
Jack's shelf when he wrote OTR,
>>but not
much else. Why would someone buy (for a
high price) ANYTHING that
>>Kerouac
owned? Did they really understand
him? Would Jack have paid a
>>million
dollars for Uncle Walt's Raincoat? Would
he have paid a dime?
>>
>>I do not
mean to belittle the work of Mr. Nicosia and the likes. I think
>>what they
are doing is good. I would read a
"scholarly" book on the works
>>of
Kerouac. But I would not loose sleep if
there were no such book. In any
>>case,
Jack will move on, in the words he left behind, and that is what I
>>care
about the most.
>>
>>
>>Dale F.
Smith
>>dale@pcanything.com
>>
>>The
darkness drops again; but now I know
>>That
twenty centuries of stony sleep
>>Were
vexed to nightmere by a rocking cradle,
>>And what
rough beast, its hour come round at last,
>>Slouches
towards Bethlehem to be born?
>>
>>---W.B.
Yeats
>
>
I have one of
Micheline's grey funky hats that I wear upon occasion.
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:16:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: AG's grave??
In a message
dated 97-05-15 14:17:51 EDT, you write:
> But wherever Louis is buried
newark NJ.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:16:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
Paul,
I applaud you
coming forward to say what you know.
I'm not here to
blast you or ridicule you and certainly not to threaten you.
Help me here,
Paul. Educate me. I have not had the experience of seeing
Gabrielle's signature
either before or after she had a stroke.
Convince me
of what you
know! What convinced you? Why do you believe the signature is
legitimate? I'm not doubting you... I simply want to know
your reasons.
Also, how does
this whole concept of Gabrielle's signature jive with what
Nicosia said two
weeks ago about Gabrielle signing checks a year after she
was dead? As I recall he alleged that Paul Blake
continued to send Gabrielle
money and
somebody was cashing the checks - up to a year or more after she
was dead. Now I don't know if bank records still exist
to that effect, but
if they do then
you've got to admit a dead woman signing checks makes a
pretty strong
case that somebody was in the habit of signing her name.
Also, could you
or someone else enlighten me as to the details of the stroke?
When, how severe,
etc. Quite frankly if I heard before
that she had had a
stroke I don't
remember it.
I'm not arguing
with you here, Paul. I simply want to
know why what you saw
convinces you.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:59:08 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: mthorn <mthorn@FASTNET.CO.UK>
Subject: Estate Eclipse
It takes
something big to put the redoubtable
Charlie Plymell
in the shade. I have followed
Nicosia's
postings closely. This is a serious
business. And I
believe N. is right to wonder
why significant
parties are not willing to argue
the point in this
forum. It costs nothing to join
Beat-L.
Frankly, until
Ann Charters etc. join the discussion
it's difficult to
take a properly informed position.
When I wrote my
biography of Tennyson, I was
able to make use
of the marvellous Tennyson Centre
at Lincoln. Not
ALL the mss. are there (others are in
Cambridge, and
lots in America), but it does make
scholarly
research easier when things are not too dispersed.
I can't imagine
Ann Charters would want to argue with
that, so there is
obviously more to this than meets the eye
or ear.
Michael Thorn
mthorn@fastnet.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 18:08:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Truth!
Paul Maher
brought up the concept of Truth earlier.
His point
reminded me of the line from Jesus Christ Superstar -
"But what is
Truth? Is Truth unchanging law? We both
have Truths. Are mine
the same as
yours?" Hosannah Superstar.....
Truth is a major
issue here. And just like two people can witness an accident
and describe
different versions of the same event, two people of good faith
can see different
Truths when looking at situations like this Estate Battle
and not be
devious, not be coniving and not be crafty.
These are
differences we should discuss, openly and candidly, without
namecalling and
without accusations. And we should
attempt to convince each
other that one
particular version of the Truth might have more vailidity than
another. After all, if six people witness an accident
and five of them say
car A was at
fault and only one insists car B was at fault we might have
reason to suspect
the case against car A is stronger than car B. And if
during the course
of discussion we discover that the one person who blames
car B also
happens to be the brother-in-law or what ever of the driver of car
A then there
might be reason for that person to see things differently than
others and the
case against car A is even stronger.
Truth can be a
two edge sword, however. Because
sometimes people can get
blinded by the
Truth. Sometimes people get so focused
on what they think
should be
everybody's Truth that when the light starts to shine it comes out
that it is only
their version of the Truth.
Case in point:
I'm sure a lot of
you saw the movie A FEW GOOD MEN. It was
out a few years
ago starring Jack
Nicholson as a grizzled old Marine Lifer and Tom Cruise as
a Young Buck
Military Attorney who goes nose to nose with Jack. Demi Moore
was in there
somewhere, and no offense to her but she's a side issue to the
point here.
The story
concerns itself with the apparent accidental death of some young
guy who happened
to be stationed at Guantanamo which is the base Jack
Nicholson was in
charge of when it happened. The
highlight of the story is
when everybody
flies into Washington DC for the big showdown.
Jack Nicholson
swaggers up to
the witness stand, full of bravado and bluster, confident this
young upstart
Cruise can't touch him. After all, he's
been in the military
longer than
Cruise has been alive, he's been in combat, he helped saved the
world from the
commies and Cruise is some wet behind the ears hotshot who's
never even held a
rifle in his hands.
So Cruise is
grilling Nicholson, making a few jabs, not getting anywhere and
ole Jack's got
the jury eating out of his hands. And
Cruise finally, in
desperation
because he's out of tricks, makes a desperate accusation that
could cost him
his career if he's wrong and possibly even land him in the
brig. But he puts it out there anyway, oblivious to
the danger he's placing
himself in.
"Why are you
asking this, Counselor?" Nicholson asks him.
"Because I
want to know what happened down there!" Cruise shoots back.
"And why do
you need to know that?" Jack cracks snidely.
"Because I'm
after the Truth!" Cruise shouts.
"YOU
CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Jack fires back.
And the courtroom
is stunned into silence because now it is evident that
there is a story
to tell, and Nicholson proceeds to tell it, with the full
confidence that
every one will see it his way... see his version of the
Truth. And the Truth does come out and while the
audience and the jury are
sympathetic with
Jack's version of the Truth, they also know he's wrong. His
version of the
Truth is flawed and when he's convicted he can't undertsnd why
- how can the
others not see the Truth he sees?
I'm wondering how
many Jack Nicholsons there may be on this list.
I'm wondering how
many people are convinced their version of the Truth is the
only version.
Tell your story.
Together with mine and everyone else's maybe we can see
things more
clearly.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:19:41 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS (the dark side
of a beet)
Rinaldo Rasa
wrote:
>
> dear friends
beat,
> everything
is a-perfect, i'm a-perfect, u're a-perfect,
> why the
death of a mosquito is a-perfect? why u are
> pulling the
screw in the coffin, dark shame in the ground,
> BROTHERS who
loves a beet?, keep my head in the hands, come
> faccio a
scrivere ancora e ancora e ancora... Red Charlie
> pop up
Parker, red twilight, rosso tramonto veneziano,
> i read JK in
american or in italian, how many JK there are
> in the
worlds, cage is on the street... Red Cage... go on!
rinaldo,
i don't
comprehend a nickel's worth of Italian, but i read your Italian
poetry
anyway. without comprehending, i think i
still catch a bit of
understanding and
certainly some of the beauty.
i got your postcard
today of Pound's centre of the universe.
beautiful. i showed it to my mother this morning (she'd
been to venice
once) and she
says she has some cards somewhere of the barren Kansas
plains and will
give me one to send to you sometime.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:29:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: An Introduction
Hello,
My name is James Marshall. I've been a fan of the beats since I read
_The Dharma Bums_
in grade twelve (prior to that I enjoyed the beats in
certain songs
also). Now I'm a fourth year English
major and an aspiring
novelist. After reading _The Dharma Bums_ I went on a
Kerouacky reading
spree which led
me to read some of his friends works as well.
I've never
had the
opportunity to study Beat literature in any of my classes and it
looks like I'll
be graduating without said opportunity.
Uh, I just realized
that I'm probably
punctuating far too formally for a Beat List so bop de dot
dot dot my
apologies.
Been following the list for a few days now
and the whole estate
controversy
interests me 'cause I'da thought those humanuscripts would be in
a library vault
by now somewhere near Lowell but then I remembered that I
don't think when
I don't have to anymore 'cause I got this aneurysm from
thinkin and I had
to fix it with a pair of scissors.
The Beats influenced my early writing and
now I find myself in the
mirror and using
Burroughs-like organic metaphors in one particular piece
that I pretend to
be writing and I say pretend because I can't think of a
better word and
because I don't really love writing even though I do but
usually it's as
painful as piercing that aneurysm was. I
also found myself
emulating the
lifestyle you know the drug use but I don't emulate anymore or
at least I don't
take drugs anymore with the exceptions of excessive amounts
of caffeine,
nicotene and alcohol but those drugs don't hurt you do they
they only cause
cancer and liver damage and I have home remedies for that.
I treat my lungs
with my microwave oven and several cleverly placed mirrors
and as for my
liver well that's no longer a problem if you know what I mean.
Gone. It and me.
Looking forward to hearing more of what you guys talk about.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 18:58:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Rod Anstee's essay
Jeffrey,
Please, yes, thank you! My address is:
Antoine Maloney
1525 Wrexham Avenue
Montreal, Quebec H3J 1B2
Hope you still have some.
Antoine
**********************************
>I forgot to
mention to the Beat-L:
>
>I need your
snail-mail address to send you Rod's essay on JK's Selected
>Letters book.
It is a booklet that we published a few years ago.
>Thanks -
>Jeffrey
>
>
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 19:26:29 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 16 May 1997 14:11:55 -0400
from <stutz@DSL.ORG>
On Fri, 16 May
1997 14:11:55 -0400 Michael Stutz said:
>On Fri, 16
May 1997, John Mitchell wrote:
>
>>I wasn't
gonna mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes,
>>found at
the Good Will.
>
>Just curious:
how did you identify them as his?
>
>Speaking of
all things Kerouac, how is it spelled -- is it "Kerouacian,"
>like I've
seen on the list as of late, or "Kerouackian"? First time I saw it
>was with the
"ck" and I thought it looked weird & wrong, but now every time
>I see
"Kerouacian" I think it's goofy too -- every time I mentally
pronounce
>it
"care-oo-ay-see-en."
Lose the K
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 19:42:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Rod Anstee's essay
Hi Jeffrey:
please send Rod's
essey. Thanks
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 19:43:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: Looking For Jack: The Literary
Influences of Jack Keroua
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970503003705.00664cf4@pop.pipeline.com> from
"PAM" at
May 2, 97 08:37:05 pm
Would the
'author' of the LOOKING FOR JACK email
send their
private email address to me off-line at carl@world.std.com?
Thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 19:10:09 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Tom Clark
Hello Dave,
Unfortunately,
Tom really could use the money via benefit or what-
ever. His health
is very bad and the medical bills out weigh the
wallet. I'll be
seeing Bly on June 4th, and maybe-just maybe, we
can come up with
some plans. St. Paul, is a very conservative and
anal town.
Outside of a select few-usually square, poets are frowned
upon and there's
very little support. One of the better features we
have is a
sub-culture of poets and writers that avoid the above main-
stream creeps
that run the show. Some very well known writers and
artists live in
and around the area-without notice or hype! So that's
cool. At any
rate, I really was hoping for Tom's sake in regards to
the Jim Carroll
benefit. It's nice to know that he's in peoples
thoughts-and
thanks for the info and work on your end.
Richard Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:22:08 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: burning down a little house
i've been going
through some old notebooks and paper scraps and i came
across something
i'd written some obscure notes about.
it was at River
City Reunion and something about a group meeting in the
country outside
of Lawrence (i have some reference to burroughs and
ginsberg pissing
together in the woods and the storyteller telling me
that a camera
would have been nice).
anyway, there was
something about a small model of a house or something
and that the
group stood around while the small little house model was
set into flames.
does anyone know
any more about this tale? is it mere
legend? what was
the deal with
burning down the little house? was there
some
significance
symbolic or otherwise?
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 22:16:12 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
> >On
05-16-97 Jerry Cimino wrote:
> >>
> >>You
know when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll for
> >>the
first time with my own eyes I was mesmerized!
Here I was looking thru
> >>this
piece of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20 years
ago.
> >> I
was fascinated! Tears welled up in my
eyes. I read every word I could
> >>see
on it.
> >>
Why did Kerouac
write on rolls of paper? I guess I
always imagined him
plugging away at
one of those old manual typewriters.
Were the rolls
easier to come
by, leftovers from printing presses?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:39:08 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
Diane Carter wrote:
>
> > >On
05-16-97 Jerry Cimino wrote:
> >
>>
> >
>>You know when I was in San Fran a few months ago and saw the OTR scroll
for
> >
>>the first time with my own eyes I was mesmerized! Here I was looking thru
> >
>>this piece of glass at a mythical document that changed my life 20
years
> ago.
> >
>> I was fascinated! Tears welled
up in my eyes. I read every word I could
> >
>>see on it.
> >
>>
>
> Why did
Kerouac write on rolls of paper? I guess
I always imagined him
> plugging
away at one of those old manual typewriters.
Were the rolls
> easier to
come by, leftovers from printing presses?
adding paper at
the end of each page breaks the flow ... i bet Jack
would love word
processors. he kind of turned the old
typewriter into
one in a way.
david rhaesa
p.s. that's what i've heard ... no firsthand
knowledge ... only meet
Jack in my less
sane moments.... :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 23:21:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Rod Anstee's essay
The Anstee piece
is on the way, daddy-o
JW
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 23:44:00 -0400
Reply-To: corduroy@earthlink.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: corduroy
<corduroy@EARTHLINK.NET>
Organization:
http://www.levity.com/corduroy
Subject: Reseller Search Page?
Comments: To:
"antiweb@pobox.com" <antiweb@pobox.com>
Comments: cc: The
Bohemian Ink <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Someone sent a
URL over the list awhile back that enabled people
to search used
books offered by a large number of resellers. I
have searched
high and low for this email, through my bookmarks,
and even the
web-- with no luck at all..
If someone knows
this URL I would GREATLY appreciate the location!
..cR
--
__________
.........| Bohemian Ink: http://www.levity.com/corduroy
.o..o..o.|
.........| christopher d. ritter
--------.| - corduroy@earthlink.net -
==|_|
||
==[===] ||
"There is a struggle going on for the minds of
|___| ||
American people. Every form of expression is
--------.| subject to the attack of reaction. This
attack
..KRUPS..| comes in the shape of silence, persecution,
.........| and censorship: three names for fear."
======== - Circle, 1948 -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:06:27 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
s.a. griffin
wrote:
>
>>---W.B. Yeats
> >
> >
> I have one
of Micheline's grey funky hats that I wear upon occasion.
>
And that is a
funky look.
James Stauffer
beeten but not
bowed
> xxxooo
> s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:55:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Lowell, from another slant
Dear Beat-L,
We've been
hearing so much Lowell politics, that I thought I would share
a poem from Billy
Collins, who is a friend of mine and Robert Peters
from our time at
Univ. of Calif., Riverside. Not a Beat,
Billy, but a
nice touch.
LOWELL, MASS.
Kerouad was born
in the same town
as my father, but
my father never
had time to write
"On the Road"
let alone drive
around the country
in circles.
He wrote notes
for the kitchen table
and a novel of
checks
and a few
speeches to lullaby
businessmen after
a fat lunch
and some of his
writing is within
me for I house
catalogues of jokes
and handbooks of
advice
on horses, snow
tires, women,
along with some
short stories
about the deadbeats at the office
but he was
quicker to pick up
a telephone than
a pen.
Like Jack, he
took a drink bu
beatific to him
meant the Virgin Mary.
He called jazz
jungle music
and he would have
told Neal Casssady
to let him off at
the next light.
(from "The
Apple That Astonished Paris"
University of Arkansas Press.
1988.)
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:14:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Durand <LCKerouac@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
Experienced and
emerging writers are invited to submit written works in
competition for the 9th Annual Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize. This Prize
will consist of a
$500 honorarium and the invitation to present the prize
manuscript at a
public reading during the annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
Festival to be
held in Lowell, Massachusetts from
October 1 through October
5, 1997.
For more
information, visit http://members.aol.com/LCKerouac/festival.htm
Look for the
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! website, coming soon...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 07:02:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
In a message
dated 97-05-16 14:23:17 EDT, you write:
<< Speaking
of all things Kerouac, how is it spelled -- is it "Kerouacian,"
like I've seen on the list as of late, or
"Kerouackian"? >>
I think its
Kerowackoian.
enjoy, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 06:40:20 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
Attila Gyenis
wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 97-05-16 14:23:17 EDT, you write:
>
> <<
Speaking of all things Kerouac, how is it spelled -- is it
"Kerouacian,"
> like I've seen on the list as of late, or
"Kerouackian"? >>
>
> I think its
Kerowackoian.
> enjoy,
Attila
Care(uh)WACKion
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 11:48:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rod Anstee's essay
In-Reply-To: <970516154605_1821370566@emout09.mail.aol.com>
from "Jeffrey
Weinberg" at May 16, 97
03:46:07 pm
Jeffrey--Please
send a copy of the essay. Thanks.
Tony Trigilio
40 Queensberry
St., #19
Boston, MA 02215
> I forgot to
mention to the Beat-L:
>
> I need your
snail-mail address to send you Rod's essay on JK's Selected
> Letters
book. It is a booklet that we published a few years ago.
> Thanks -
> Jeffrey
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:34:09 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Tom Clark
Hello Jeanne,
Jim Carroll did a
benefit for a Tom Clark-not the writer, Tom Clark.
Probably a friend
of Carroll's, I don't know. Tom-the writer, is a
friend of mine
who could use a little help. Do they still book blues-
men at the Bottom
Line? I haven't been out in NYC in a number of yrs.
Richard Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:30:33 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: HUNTER S. THOMPSON booksigning (fwd)
thot folks here
would be interested in this...
yrs
derek
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 16 May
1997 12:54:25 -0700
From: BOOKSMITH
<read@booksmith.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
Subject: HUNTER
S. THOMPSON booksigning
On Tuesday June
24th at 6pm, legendary gonzo journalist HUNTER S.
THOMPSON will be
signing his new book, "The Proud Highway: Saga of a
Desperate
Southern Gentleman" (hardback, $29.95) at The Booksmith in San
Francisco! (For
more information, check out http://www.booksmith.com)
Subtitled
"The Fear and Loathing Letters, volume 1" Thompson's latest is
a literary
milestone. For the first time, the private and most intimate
correspondence of
America's most influential journalist is made public.
The book begins
with a high school essay written in 1955 - when Thompson
was perhaps too
wise a teenager, and takes us through 1967, when the
publication of
"Hell's Angels" made the author an international
celebrity (and
nearly resulted in his death). In between are letters to
Norman Mailer,
Tom Wolfe, President Lyndon Johnson, Nelson Algren, Ken
Kesey, Kay Boyle,
Joan Baez, Charles Kuralt and many others. Some of us
here at The
Booksmith have read this new book - and we can tell you that
it is great -
perhaps his best book in some time.
For fans, this is
an incredibly rare opportunity. If you can't attend
this
extraordinary event, and would like to purchase
autographed
copies of Hunter S. Thompson's "The Proud Highway," please
let us know as
soon as possible. We are expecting demand to be great
(especially as
Thompson rarely does book signings - he lives in a
fortified
compound!). For your convience, please let us note that the
"The Proud
Highway" sells for $29.95. Shipping is $4.50 for the first
copy and $1.00
for each additional book. Multiple orders are welcome and
there is no
surcharge for an autographed copy.
Allen Ginsberg
drew more than 400 people to The Booksmith, Anne Rice had
them lined up
around the block, Ray Bradbury entranced all with his
stories, Timothy
Leary packed the store. Hunter S. Thompson, we feel,
may be the
biggest event ever at The Booksmith. Please join us if
possible.
_____________________________________________________________________
The Booksmith
1644 Haight
Street (between Clayton & Cole)
San Francisco,
California 94117
(800) 493-7323 --
phone
(415) 863-8688
(415) 863-2540 --
fax
http://www.booksmith.com/
email:
read@booksmith.com
"One of the
strongest websites in the business." - PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 14:45:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: George Russell
<CodyPomera@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
I would like to
get a copy...Thanks.
George Russell
PO Box 10667
Bainbridge
Island, WA.
98110
Thanks again!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 15:09:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battl
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%97051619280949@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
On Fri, 16 May
1997, Bill Gargan wrote:
> On Fri, 16
May 1997 14:11:55 -0400 Michael Stutz said:
> >On Fri,
16 May 1997, John Mitchell wrote:
> >
> >>I
wasn't gonna mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes,
>
>>found at the Good Will.
> >
> >Just
curious: how did you identify them as his?
> >
> >Speaking
of all things Kerouac, how is it spelled -- is it "Kerouacian,"
> >like
I've seen on the list as of late, or "Kerouackian"? First time I saw
it
> >was with
the "ck" and I thought it looked weird & wrong, but now every
time
> >I see
"Kerouacian" I think it's goofy too -- every time I mentally
pronounce
> >it
"care-oo-ay-see-en."
>
> Lose the K
>
Who ckares?
just kidding,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:03:59 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T
READ, PLEASE,
DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.
K E
R O U
A C
IL DOTTOR SAX
Libro primo
FANTASMI DELLA NOTTE
DI PAWTUCKETVILLE
1
L'altra notte ho
sognato che stavo seduto sul mar-
ciapede di Moody
Street, Pawtucketville, Lowell,
Massachusetts,...
Qui a farmez ma porte? Parsonne voyons donc.
GOD READS THIS.
DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
THIS.DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
THIS.DON'T READ,
PLEASE, GOD READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.
DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
THIS.DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ THIS.DON'T READ, PLEASE, DON'T READ
THIS. thake me by
hand, GOD, around the midnight, GOD i send u a
letter, GOD if
ever u read this, WHY U CREATES MYSELF?, WHY I BORN?,
THIS DON'T READ,
PLEASE, DON'T READ
THIS DON'T READ,
PLEASE fantasmi agghiaccianti, fredde, COLD,
streets italiane,
tears, cerchietti, bracelets, ASE, GOD READ THIS.DON'T
READ, PLEASE,
DON'T READ THIS.T READ, PL
DON'T READ,
PLEASE, god thake by hand Pakistani, WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN?
WHY I BORN? WHY I
BORN? WHY I BORN? WHY I BORN? god thake by hand OLD wo/men,
god thake by hand
pacemaker's lawyer, god thake by hand that tatoo GIRL,
god thake by hand
by handby handby handby hand
WHY I BORN? WHY I RAT?
WHY I CLOUD? WHY I
SQUEKING?
WHY? WHY?
ever read me!
R I
N A L
D O
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:11:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battl
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970517150805.24212A-100000@crystal.palace.n et>
Bien c'est pas'l
diable plesant.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 17:39:23 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: Truth!
In-Reply-To:
<970516180816_-130076203@emout15.mail.aol.com>
Now that you
mention it , I kinda see myself like Jack Nicholson, more like
the Easy Rider
one in his football helmet or the 5 Easy Pieces one trying
to order a
reality sandwich from Big Waitron. But
I'm not sure my
resemblance to
Jack is the Truth even as I see it. But
more and more I
find that my
version of the Truth tends to be the one I most enjoy when
feeling sorry for
myself. It's nice to be a consolation to
yr own elf.
(Thanks for the
plot review and that great line:
"You couldn't handle the
truth!" I remember an old white haired Presbyterian
preacher in 1962
preaching about
how everybody wants to run off to seek The Truth On the
Road of Life, who
then declared: "We already know
more of The Truth than
we are willing to
put into practice!" Ain't that
Han-Shan--the ole timey
Dharma Bum with
the sake belly pressing against his Merry Prankster &
Grateful Dead
BeatList T-shirt? I sometimes remind
myself that I already
know more of the
truth of Jack Kerouac than I am willing to put into
practice [green
tea, pork 'n' beans heated in the can, hershey bars], hence
am not obsessed
all that much about seeing additional Dead Sea Scrolls from
and about
him.) // John M.
(James S., when
you get time, please send me an electronic baloney sandwich
from that little
deli that used to be in Bolinas. Plus
cheese. Or is it
all quiche
now? And one of those weird stones with
the perfectly round
holes swirled
into them that you used to be able to find on the Naked Beach
nearby.)
>I'm wondering
how many Jack Nicholsons there may be on this list.
>
>I'm wondering
how many people are convinced their version of the Truth is the
>only version.
>
>
>Tell your
story. Together with mine and everyone else's maybe we can see
>things more
clearly.
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 00:41:51 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Truth!
In-Reply-To:
<l03020903afa3eaa3973a@[141.224.144.84]>
hey,
De Vito in the
cuckoo nest is a must, mybe reconsider
the beat
experience? De Vito is a beat?.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 17:47:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: A mute voice on the Estate Battle
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%97051619280949@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>On Fri, 16
May 1997 14:11:55 -0400 Michael Stutz said:
>>On Fri,
16 May 1997, John Mitchell wrote:
>>
>>>I
wasn't gonna mention this, but I happen to own a pair of Kerouac's shoes,
>>>found
at the Good Will.
>>
>>Just
curious: how did you identify them as his?
They weren't
tongue-tied. // John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 15:45:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Lorraine Perrotta
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reseller Search Page?
CR-
I'm replying to
the list in case anyone else is interested.
Try
www.interloc.com. You can search by author title etc., they
have some crazy
number of books
listed for sale, many at reasonable prices, like 2 million
books. Happy shopping to you.
Lorraine
At 11:44 PM
5/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Someone sent
a URL over the list awhile back that enabled people
>to search
used books offered by a large number of resellers. I
>have searched
high and low for this email, through my bookmarks,
>and even the
web-- with no luck at all..
>
>If someone
knows this URL I would GREATLY appreciate the location!
>
>
..cR
>
>--
>
>__________
>.........| Bohemian Ink: http://www.levity.com/corduroy
>.o..o..o.|
>.........| christopher d. ritter
>--------.| - corduroy@earthlink.net -
> ==|_| ||
>==[===] ||
"There is a struggle going on for the minds of
> |___| ||
American people. Every form of expression is
>--------.| subject to the attack of reaction. This
attack
>..KRUPS..| comes in the shape of silence, persecution,
>.........| and censorship: three names for fear."
>
======== -
Circle, 1948 -
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 17:56:04 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Truth!
John Mitchell
wrote:
>
> Now that you
mention it , I kinda see myself like Jack Nicholson, more like
> the Easy
Rider one in his football helmet or the 5 Easy Pieces one trying
> to order a
reality sandwich from Big Waitron.
>
> >I'm
wondering how many Jack Nicholsons there may be on this list.
> >
well i'd say that
i'm a combination of Jack in The Shining and Jack in
Batman with a
dash of Hoffa for good measure.
went to see
Batman tripping and knew the script would have Batman win so
i got up and left
when the Joker was winning and Batman was ... kaput.
TRUTH
tactical
retreat
um ...
tantalizing
humility
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 18:11:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: Svevo on Joyce
Hello all. Just
received this from the James Joyce mailing list. Can anybody
help? I'd be much obliged.
Malcolm
----------
From: Sheadel@aol.com[SMTP:Sheadel@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 1997 2:00 PM
To: rossman@mail.utexas.edu;
j-joyce@lists.utah.edu
Subject: Svevo on Joyce
I am getting
ready to sell a copy of Svevo on Joyce published by City lights
Books press.
Does anyone have
any ideas what this might be worth or where I could find
out?
Thanks,
Kelly Nolan
sheadel@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 19:22:20 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Truth!
John Mitchell
wrote:
>
> Now that you
mention it , I kinda see myself like Jack Nicholson, more like
> the Easy
Rider one in his football helmet or the 5 Easy Pieces one trying
> to order a
reality sandwich from Big Waitron. But
I'm not sure my
> resemblance
to Jack is the Truth even as I see it.
But more and more I
> find that my
version of the Truth tends to be the one I most enjoy when
> feeling
sorry for myself. It's nice to be a
consolation to yr own elf.
> (Thanks for
the plot review and that great line:
"You couldn't handle the
>
truth!" I remember an old white
haired Presbyterian preacher in 1962
> preaching
about how everybody wants to run off to seek The Truth On the
> Road of
Life, who then declared: "We
already know more of The Truth than
> we are
willing to put into practice!"
Ain't that Han-Shan--the ole timey
> Dharma Bum
with the sake belly pressing against his Merry Prankster &
> Grateful
Dead BeatList T-shirt? I sometimes remind
myself that I already
> know more of
the truth of Jack Kerouac than I am willing to put into
> practice
[green tea, pork 'n' beans heated in the can, hershey bars], hence
> am not
obsessed all that much about seeing additional Dead Sea Scrolls from
> and about
him.) // John M.
>
> (James S.,
when you get time, please send me an electronic baloney sandwich
> from that
little deli that used to be in Bolinas.
Plus cheese. Or is it
> all quiche
now? And one of those weird stones with
the perfectly round
> holes
swirled into them that you used to be able to find on the Naked Beach
> nearby.)
>
John,
The image of Jack
in the Easy Rider Helmet works for me.
You may egg me on
into a Bolinas trip. Want to see again
the beach
where Welch sets
"Wobbley Rock", and the deli needs to be checked out,
god knows what
their doing now, quiche is probably long dead too, and
take a tour of
the naked beach and stop for a few drinks in Stinson and
then try to
encapsulate the view of the Zen farm in Green Gulch. I feel
myself gassing up
the car already. At the Ginzy memorial Joanne Kyger
talked about
making Allen a literary map of Bolinas, and how to get from
her house to Don
Allen's and Armam Saroyan's, and on and Allen's joy in
planning to complete
the whole Bolinas poet tour.
And the Dead Sea
Scrolls fit so well with the suicidal intensity of the
Essenes. All Really Good Truths are Infinitely
Malleable, say I.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:09:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Gerry Nicosia
Comments: To:
Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@earthlink.net>
Mr. Nicosia,
I've been closely following the
discussion of the Kerouac estate and
your many posts.
By this time I have a perfectly clear idea of your point of
view. I don't
want to burden you with anything that will look like an
attack, but I do
agree with Race that the conspiratorial tone injected into
many of your
posts is way overdone. You should NOT feel that you are subject
to attack on
every front from those on this list with you.
We are with you, BUT I'd like to think
that many of us, in the
absence of
decisive facts, are also anxious to hear all fourteen sides of
the argument -
both the facts and the opinions since, in fact, they can't be
disentangled. We
are in the midst of a national election here in Canada and
one of the most
irritating/ennervating (...if that's possible at the same
time) is the
formulaic response of the candidates in any and all situations.
They have their
message and they trot it out. You generally have more than
just the
formulaic message about the conspiracy, but at this point I think
we get it and
don't have to be beaten over the head with the conspiracy in
every post.
I remain intensely interested in learning
all there is to learn
about the estate
and Kerouac's background. I'm already hunting for "Memory
Babe" to
read after I finish "Desolation Angels" by McNally. So please don't
be deterred by
any of what I've said. Please keep as active as you've been
in
educating/propagandizing us. Regarding that I posted a message this past
week looking for
explanation/elaboration of the Sampas family members...who
was who and
particulary who John and Jim Sampas were. If you can help there
I'd be happy to
send it to you again off list.
Regarding "Memory Babe", is
it truly out of print and out of stock
or will I find it
with some looking....and is there one other book of that
ilk that you
would recommend? I've read Charters'
book and a number of
others...what do
you recommend?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:17:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Truth
Truth is an ethereal entity. A platonic ideal. Doesn't exist other
than as a
word. Even that's debatable. Like reality.
Subjectivity is
where it's at
man.
Kerouac's speech at Brandeis University,
November 6, 1958; he addresses
the question
"Is there a Beat Generation?":
"...The question is very silly
because we should
be wondering tonight: Is there a
world?... Because there
is really no
world... you'll find out".
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:41:57 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Anstee's review?
Hello Jo,
You must have the
wrong Richard in regards to Anstee's review. Unless
the review is
about me-stranger things have happened. I was having
coffee at
Starbucks and a friend dropped by my table, saying, nice
review on you in
SPR. I had know idea what he was talking about until
I picked up a
copy and seen the spread. I dropped by bookzen last
night (a first
time for me) and loved it! As a small publisher and
writer it made me
feel real good inside to see all the wonderful books
and authors.
Richard Houff
Pariah Press
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 00:46:41 -0400
Reply-To: corduroy@earthlink.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: corduroy
<corduroy@EARTHLINK.NET>
Organization:
http://www.levity.com/corduroy
Subject: RETurn of the Bohemian!
Comments: To: The
Bohemian Ink <BOHEMIAN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Comments: cc: Bil
Brown <bil@orca.sitesonthe.net>,
Bob Holman
<MouthMight@aol.com>, Dan Levy <danlevy@panix.com>,
Jeffrey Michael Richards
<jmricha1@midway.uchicago.edu>,
"John S. Hall"
<JOHNSHALL@aol.com>, Lee Ranaldo <Eyemote@aol.com>,
Steve Silberman
<digaman@hotwired.com>
THE BOHEMIAN
INK www.levity.com/corduroy THE BOHEMIAN INK
New and Revised
for the Digital Age, the Bohemian Ink
d=E9buts (once
again) with a little techno under its paunches!
After appearing
on internet magazines, commercial sites,=20
and underground
rags across the infobahn, the Bohemian Ink
comes back
stronger than ever with an amazing interface=20
guaranteed to
fill your literary desires-- from slam to
experimental
prose, out-of-print literature to books=20
only a mother
would look at, nothing hits the spot like a
bit of the Ink
right where the doctor ordered.=20
Aside from the
new, the old and steady still survives with
literary
collections of authors and events from the old=20
to the new.
Bohemians, beatniks, slammers, and old iron-side
authors still
abound, with authors such as Jack Kerouac,=20
Lee Ranaldo,
Richard Brautigan, Raymond Carver, Diane=20
di Prima, and
many many more. New sections include the
Burning Man
Festival, the Harlem Renaissance, and=20
introduction to
the Beat Generation by Levi Asher, and
a special section
compiled by Jennifer at Conari Press
on the Women of
the Beat Generation, with special attention
to ruth weiss, as
well as Carolyn Cassady, Anne Waldman, and
Joanna McClure.
So stop on by!
And if you've completed this announcement
with that
annoying announcer guy's voice ringing in your
ears, rest assured
that you've caught the mood of this
blatent form of
self-promotion! Ain't it bohemian?
THE BOHEMIAN
INK www.levity.com/corduroy THE BOHEMIAN INK
..cR (aka
Critter/Corduroy)
--=20
__________ =20
.........| Bohemian Ink: http://www.levity.com/corduroy
.o..o..o.| =20
.........| christopher d. ritter
--------.| - corduroy@earthlink.net -
=3D=3D|_|
|| =20
=3D=3D[=3D=3D=3D]
|| "There is a struggle going on for the minds of=20
|___| ||
American people. Every form of expression is =20
--------.| subject to the attack of reaction. This
attack
..KRUPS..| comes in the shape of silence, persecution,
.........| and censorship: three names for fear."
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - Circle, 1948 -
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 04:23:01 -0000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: LISA VEDROS
<2ndbeat@TELAPEX.COM>
Subject: Promotion of Second Beat magazine
Comments: To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.
Hi, my name is
Thadeus D'Angelo and I've got something to say. I would like
to offer you a
chance to get Second Beat magazine, a poetry based Beat
zine. It is very
fresh and small press now, but is going through revamps as
we speak.
Hopefully it will be online soon. Any questions, e-mail me at
2ndbeat@telapex.com.
For subscriptions or submissions too.
Thanks,
Tadeus D'Angelo,
Camelia City Books
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:26:49 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Truth
In-Reply-To:
<199705180317.UAA26106@freya.van.hookup.net>
this white
sky blur
myself
> Truth is an ethereal entity.
>
James M.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:51:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Svevo on Joyce
In-Reply-To:
<01BC62ED.CCD7D7C0@sea-ts3-p28.wolfenet.com>
>Hello all.
Just received this from the James Joyce mailing list. Can anybody
> help? I'd be
much obliged.
>
>Malcolm
>
>----------
>From: Sheadel@aol.com[SMTP:Sheadel@aol.com]
>Sent: Saturday, May 17, 1997 2:00 PM
>To: rossman@mail.utexas.edu;
j-joyce@lists.utah.edu
>Subject: Svevo on Joyce
>
>I am getting
ready to sell a copy of Svevo on Joyce published by City lights
>Books press.
>
>Does anyone
have any ideas what this might be worth or where I could find
>out?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kelly Nolan
>sheadel@aol.com
I got some help
not long ago from a book: The ABC of Book Collecting by (I
think) Carrter.
Also, call reference at public of University library for
help. Also, call
Special Collections at any university for some help.
Bottom line for
things like this is the Reference Desk at any library.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:25:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: Truth
forever blunder
salvage
f o r g e t
the blue
----------
: From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re:
Truth
: Date: Sunday,
May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
:
: this white
: sky blur
: myself
:
:
: > Truth is an ethereal entity.
: >
James M.
: >
: >
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 10:55:01 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Boston area events (fwd)
anyone interested
in all this??
derek
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 17 May
1997 23:32:29 -0400
From: me
<me@my.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.books.beatgeneration
Subject: Boston
area events
The Brattle
Theatre in Harvard Square will have an Allen Ginsberg and
friends"
Beat Film Festival this spring starting May 20 going on every
Tuesday.
Following is a schedule of films to be shown. Also please reply
if this info is
actually useful to anyone or if this NG is read by
anyone who
actually cares about the beat generation anymore.
Some of these are
films tangentially related, and obviously missing
is "Pull my
Daisy" which was recently shown at the Boston Institute
for Contemporary
Art.
May
20 The Life and Times of
Allen Ginsberg
7:45,9:30 dir.-Jerry Aronson 1993
w/ Gins.,Burroughs,Kesey,Leary,Mailer,Baez
27 Growing up in America
4:15,7:55 dir-Morley Markson 1987
6:00,9:40 What Happened to Jack Kerouac
dir-R.Lerner L.MacAdams
1985
June
3 Paul Bowles
4:30,7:40 dir.-C.Warnow R.Weinreich 1993
5:50,9:00 Half Moon (1995)
3 Paul Bowles stories
10 Burroughs (1984)
4:00,8:00 documentary (?)
5:45,9:40 Naked Lunch (1991)
17 Lenny (1974)
4:00,7:30 about Lenny Bruce, 50s night
club comic
6:10,9:40 Lenny Bruce:Performance Film
(1973)
24 Who Killed Teddy Bear?
(1965)
4:00,7:45 movie about 60's night life
5:50,9:30 The Beat Generation (1959)
B/W detective film
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:21:34 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Truth
In-Reply-To: <9705181529.AA10833@jane.penn.com>
a Pakistan screms
in the bed!
the hearth is
lost,
my god, we're u?
At 11.25 18/05/97
-0500, you wrote:
>forever
blunder
>salvage
>f o r g e t
>the blue
>
>----------
>: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>: Subject:
Re: Truth
>: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
>:
>: this white
>: sky blur
>: myself
>:
>:
>: > Truth is an ethereal entity.
>: >
James M.
>: >
>: >
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:24:31 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Svevo on Joyce
In-Reply-To: <v03007801afa4c6dc0647@[156.46.45.83]>
la coscienza di
zeno e' stato un libro nel quale lo
scrittore creava
in talia le teorie di freud e forse
nei sogni dreams
e nella scrittura dei sogni draem-writing
versus creative
writing is a lot of sensoe in the middle of
an elevator
that's stopped in the middle of a building...
yrs rinaldo.
* a beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 10:42:04 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Truth?
On a warm but
scattered cloud balconey.
"What if
clouds are explosions from military experiments?"
"Huh?"
"I mean,
what if the government has found a way to stop time and blow stuff
up in the sky and
then just start time again so it looks like the clouds
have always been
there?"
"Why would
they do that?"
"You know
the military."
"Yeah."
"Or maybe
it's some sort of alien thing."
"Like Star
Trek."
"Yeah like
Star Trek."
"Like a
really long episode of Star Trek."
"Yeah."
"Okay. Say it is a government conspiracy and the
military and / or aliens
are
involved. Why do the clouds or
explosions move across the sky at what
seems to be a
steady pace?"
"The wind
stupid."
"Okay. What if the wind is caused by some sort of
giant land based or outer
space fan-like
things which defy all we know about current technology?"
"I never
thought of that. Okay. I've got one for you. Why is the sky blue?"
"Because
that's how I feel."
"Weird. I thought it was because that's my favorite
color."
"No. It's because that's how I feel."
"Oh."
"Let's go
inside. I'm getting the creeps."
"You're
forgetting about infra-red technology.
And they could have that
shit perfected by
now so they could see through walls just like looking at you."
"Yeah. Nevermind.
Let's wait for sunset. I got a
couple ideas about that."
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 12:56:25 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Truth?
James William
Marshall wrote:
>
> On a warm
but scattered cloud balconey.
>
"Huh?"
what if blow sky-just-cloud (something long)
episode conspiracy cloud
explosions move
wind is giant never-thought, sky blue inside, creeps
infra-red could
shit perfected by see through looking
Never-mind.
wait for a couple
"i get
it"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 14:19:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Boston area events (fwd)
In a message
dated 97-05-18 13:06:27 EDT, you write:
<< Also please reply
if this info is actually useful to anyone or
if this NG is read by
anyone who actually cares about the beat
generation anymore. >>
Yes, we care,
this is the type of information I like to see because many
times things
happen in your own backyard that you don't even know about.
thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:50:03 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Re: Truth
At 11:25 AM
5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>forever
blunder
>salvage
>f o r g e t
>the blue
>
Blunders
Engineered in
coofffeeee shops
Forgetting
universal humanity
You babies
beautiful were innocent,
now killing
colors?
Then forget the
Red, White and Green too.
Just see black
and white, and spam.
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:14:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: ruth weiss
Saw ruth weiss,
poet, beat, read the other day backed by a guy on bass. She
says that she was
one of the innovators of reading poetry to jazz, back in
1956. (she
doesn't say originators). She had a nice little workshop before
her reading where
5 of us just sat around and talked and bs'ed about the
beats, San Fran
in the 50's, and motivations for writing.
Bonus
question- why does ruth weiss write her
name in all low caps?
answer later,
enjoy, Attile
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:33:43 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gerry Nicosia
In-Reply-To:
<97May17.230954-0400_edt.586065-231+1806@skywalker.microtec.net>
Antoine--
Thanks for
putting so well into words what some of us have felt without
being able to
express so genuinely and respectfully.
John M.
P. S. To save virtual space in the Great Closet of
Time, I am attaching an
American haiku
for Rinaldo that came to me like a blinding flash of
caffeine satori
in the Hard Times Cafe this morning.
The Am. Haiku
Tears
Too big
For grief
Too small
For a career
>Mr. Nicosia,
>
> I've been closely following the
discussion of the Kerouac estate and
>your many
posts. By this time I have a perfectly clear idea of your point of
>view. I don't
want to burden you with anything that will look like an
>attack, but I
do agree with Race that the conspiratorial tone injected into
>many of your
posts is way overdone. You should NOT feel that you are subject
>to attack on
every front from those on this list with you.
>
> We are with you, BUT I'd like to think
that many of us, in the
>absence of
decisive facts, are also anxious to hear all fourteen sides of
>the argument
- both the facts and the opinions since, in fact, they can't be
>disentangled.
We are in the midst of a national election here in Canada and
>one of the
most irritating/ennervating (...if that's possible at the same
>time) is the
formulaic response of the candidates in any and all situations.
>They have
their message and they trot it out. You generally have more than
>just the
formulaic message about the conspiracy, but at this point I think
>we get it and
don't have to be beaten over the head with the conspiracy in
>every post.
>
> I remain intensely interested in
learning all there is to learn
>about the
estate and Kerouac's background. I'm already hunting for "Memory
>Babe" to
read after I finish "Desolation Angels" by McNally. So please don't
>be deterred
by any of what I've said. Please keep as active as you've been
>in
educating/propagandizing us. Regarding that I posted a message this past
>week looking
for explanation/elaboration of the Sampas family members...who
>was who and
particulary who John and Jim Sampas were. If you can help there
>I'd be happy
to send it to you again off list.
>
> Regarding "Memory Babe", is
it truly out of print and out of stock
>or will I
find it with some looking....and is there one other book of that
>ilk that you
would recommend? I've read Charters'
book and a number of
>others...what
do you recommend?
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:53:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: ruth weiss
Bonus
question- why does ruth weiss write her
name in all low caps?
Because of
e.e.cummings.....
....Her shift key was broken? ...she could only afford half-height
typewriter
ribbons? ...her version of Word 6.0
was a beta version and was
not
caps-capable? ...she is secrtly related
to derek beaulieu and marie
countryman and
they were all seperated at birth?
.....her position on capital punishment? I give up!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:29:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry Nicosia
John,
Thanks for the thanks John. By the way,
I will be closely examining
the shoes in MY
closet to see if I might have inadvertently bought an old
pair of
Jack's....you say the defining characteristic would be that they
won't be
tongue-tied? I'll get right onto it!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:27:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: Truth
so the steering
column spins
by the scanning
bird
wearing a hat of
fudge
----------
: From: Rinaldo
Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re:
Truth
: Date: Sunday,
May 18, 1997 12:21 PM
:
: a Pakistan screms
in the bed!
: the hearth is
lost,
: my god, we're
u?
:
: At 11.25
18/05/97 -0500, you wrote:
: >forever
blunder
: >salvage
: >f o r g e t
: >the blue
: >
: >----------
: >: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: >: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: >: Subject:
Re: Truth
: >: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
: >:
: >: this white
: >: sky blur
: >: myself
: >:
: >:
: >: > Truth is an ethereal entity.
: >: >
James M.
: >: >
: >: >
: >
: >
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:11:46 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: ruth weiss
In-Reply-To: <970518161423_1955119747@emout02.mail.aol.com>
>
> Bonus
question- why does ruth weiss write her
name in all low caps?
>
simply cause
capitals cost too much
same with punctuation
sale at
woolworths on lower case
buy one get rest
free
and caps were clear
cut in 80s leaving few left
in the wild
and who wants
to use force fed
and steroided caps?
freerange so much
better
but rarer and
harder to find
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:21:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ruth weiss
In-Reply-To:
<970518161423_1955119747@emout02.mail.aol.com>
On Sun, 18 May
1997, Attila Gyenis wrote:
> Bonus
question- why does ruth weiss write her
name in all low caps?
because she wants
to be like da levy? ee cummings?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:27:50 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
Robert H. Sapp
wrote:
>
> an admirable
cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
> idea. at a
high school level, at least in terms of my
>
for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing highschool
> experience,
having beat lit taught in a structured school situation would
> be a
disaster. though it would create more exposure, i think Beat stuff
> would be
better served for "Optional" assignments rather than the core
> curriculum.
i still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
> pounding
strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
> teaching and
this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
> discovering
On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
>
> who knows,
> Eric
>
it seems that the
strictures of the environment might be contradictory,
but it might be
precisely why the beat lit could reach through to some
students who are
alienated in the current atmosphere.
i think you're on
target concerning optional readings for full length
novels, i don't
think this is necessarily inconsistent with the notions
presented
elsewhere for creating some form of a reader which could be
incorporated (as
opposed to pushed) into the core curriculum.
it seems that the
high school setting is due to get past the Eisenhower
era and
incorporation of this literature would be a fitting part of such
a move.
again, it seems
that such measures always depend on the quality of the
teachers and the learning
atmosphere available. providing
teacher's
resources seem a
significant aspect of the various projects which have
been
mentioned. even well-intentioned
teachers may need information
which can assist
them to be informed on the subject matter.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:33:25 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14
May 1997, Robert H. Sapp wrote:
>
> > i still
think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
> >
pounding strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
> >
teaching and this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
> >
discovering On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
>
> Totally
exactly. Beat stuff is still fresh -- it's still more relevant than
> older lit in
certain ways for certain things, and I think teaching it in
> schools
takes out the bite and maybe even misses the point. Personally I'd
> rather see
an end to schools. Kids could learn more from an uninhibited
> Internet
connection than they could thru obsolete teaching methods anyway.
> Now _that_
would be a Beat crusade I could get into.
i'm sympathetic
to an end to compulsory schooling or a radical
alteration in the
stricture of the system's structures. my
sympathy is
primarily at a
cerebral level. such notions have been
discussed
intelligently
since the late 1960s and the school buildings are still
there with the
students trapped within.
it seems that
practical improvement in the curriculum of our schools is
a useful measure
until such a day as the schools vanish from the face of
the earth.
does beat
literature "belong" in schools?
i think that it is something
which students
should be allowed to access and be exposed to.
it would
probably
"belong" to the hearts and minds of the students more than the
walls of the
school buildings themselves.
the internet is a
wonderful resource and could be a means for
supplementing
exposure to beat literature through the schools.
unfortunately,
access to the internet is far from universal.
while it
is an unrelated
and unbeat thread, i sometimes wonder if the information
age will create
greater divisions of class of infotech haves and
havenots than
have existed in our country for some time.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:41:04 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
MARK NIGON wrote:
>
> Eric,
> Good point,
but I don't think an early exposure to the Beats is going to
> turn young
students off. Some students are going to
love it and others
> will read it
like they read the back of a cereal box and say, "Yeah, so
>
what?" I don't think having OTR
suggested by a trusted friend
> guarantees
the reader will like it either. I've
suggested Beat pieces
> to friends
and they come back with, "While I like it, it just didn't do
> anything for
me." I for one would have loved
being introduced to Beat
> Gen writers
as a HS student. Now that I think about
it, maybe you're
> onto
something with the "Optional assignment" route. But then again my
> opinions on
this subject were formed because I had instructors that took
> an active
part in my education and opened my mind (and left it open)
> rather than
fill it with "strict nonsense" and blather.
>
> Crunching
numbers when I'd rather be writing.
> -Mark
>
>
MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>
i am glad to see
your interest in the high school beat literature
notions. the several voices have made it clear to me
that "pushing" On
the Road, for
example, would be counterproductive. The
optionals
approach might be
a better path. i don't think these are
inconsistent
with other
suggestions of the creation of some form of beat-sampler.
i attended a
somewhat experimental 1970ish high school that leaped from
totalitarian
notions to anarchic ones. one english
course provided
significant
freedom in the choice of novels (the quantity was measured
strictly). this might fit the optional notion you
mention.
trusted friends
are not always exposed to beat literature either. in my
case, i believe i
was in my mid-20s before someone slipped me On the
Road. the suggestions i'm hinting toward (no longer
pushing) are more
an attempt to
provide exposures to these wonders. i
imagine that the
full breadth and
depth of the wonders will still be passed along from
friend to
friend. just hoping that more friends
are in the beatific
loop.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:57:58 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
s.a. griffin
wrote:
> >
by the by, I have in my little circle of
things
> here in L.A.
met quite a few younger folks (high school age) that consume it
> all and we
older types do all that we can to educate them as well as they
> educate
us. this is most desirable of all.
>
> xxxooo
> s.a.
let me know when
you run for political office and i'll help in the
ballot box
stuffing. this notion at the end of your
post sounds
meaningful. it seems that we can all learn from ideas
from young people
and their
perspectives on all things beat and otherwise.
the informal
setting is a wonderful element. it
eliminates many of the
anti-school
feelings discussed elsewhere.
but, it seems
that the schools are another place where we are exposed
and that
sometimes good teachers and interested students connect in
english classes
and elsewhere. it doesn't seem that the
interested
students need
wait to mid-20s to be exposed to the beat-thing.
part of this idea
to me was how well the notions of writing as a
spontaneous
exercise and that writing can be about everyday life is
something that
caught on to some degree in some college teaching
circles. i don't know whether it has slid to the high
school
environment
yet. the beat-lit components in a
curriculum could dovetail
well with notions
of free and spontaneous writing approaches.
i had hoped to
sit down and type systematically for a period of time and
slip through a
significant number of the notions that had been posted on
this thread.
i must admit i
was pleasantly surprised by the initial interest and have
felt somewhat
that i have dropped the ball in not keeping my promise to
continue the
unending conversation of such matters.
so i sat down
with all intentions directed to serious-thought and to
writing
concerning post after post after post
and now
after just a few
i fear
my brain
has slipped out
of anything akin to systematic
typing
and that i can
only
thank y'all for
the shocking level
of
initial interest
and hope
for continued
interest in these notions
and the ones
which
jumped from them
which i cannot
call mine at all.
the beat reader
idea seems
a rather nice one
though
ambitious beyond
my means
i admit
to a few rather
nice brain farts
on the matter
in the past week
but nothing near
a Eureka.
it is muggy in
Kansas - hope all is well where y'all are reading this.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:09:24 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: school and literature...
andrew szymczyk
wrote:
>
> as a side note, we were made
to watch a film
> strip on walt whitman a little earlier
in the year. the film
> started going off on whom whitman has
influenced
> throughout the years, and as a picture
of kerouac
> surfaced on the screen i threw my
hands up in joy. i
> really don't think that anyone else in
the class knew
> what i was so happy about, but i
suppose that that's
> their loss.
>
>
andrew
i thought that
this anecdote about kerouac-the-obscure for your class
during the
whitman filmstrip was sad.
three cheers to
your teacher !!!
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:07:42 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: ruth weiss
Attila Gyenis
wrote:
>
> Bonus
question- why does ruth weiss write her
name in all low caps?
>
> answer
later,
> enjoy,
Attile
There was, of
course, ee cummings.
Did she read that
poem where "the Beat" occurs so often you think you
might throw up if
you hear it one more time?
James
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:25:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jonny Coop <Mcb93940@AOL.COM>
Subject: Buke Poem
There's a guy I
met in San Diego a while back named Chuck Perrin who has a
group he calls
The Holy Barbarians and they made a terrifc CD called
Beat.itude. Last cut is called "it ain't over
yet" (for Jack Kerouac). Some
of the lines are:
Mad to live and mad to talk
Full speed without regret
We got to get it all
Cause it ain't over yet
and later
October twenty-first
Nineteen sixty-nine
It was the Diz's birthday
An irony sublime
You gave us one last lesson
In spontaneity
Livin hard and dyin young
Blowing cool and free
They said "This is how the ride
ends"
But I wouldn't take that bet
You may be gone Jack
But the ride ain't over yet
If you like Jazz
and love Kerouac (and I know you do) you might want to pick
this up. As far
as I'm aware it never got any major distribution because
Chuck has his own
small label. The packaging is gorgeous
and we're trying to
promote it so are
offering it at a special price - $14.98.
It's not on our
web-site yet so
if you're interested e-mail me at jerry@kerouac.com or call
1-800-KER-OUAC.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City Facts
& Fiction
www.kerouac.com
1-800-KER-OUAC
Here's Chuck's
latest poem on Buke...
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: WLWORD@aol.com
Sender:
jerry@kerouac.com
Resent-from: WLWORD@aol.com
To: jerry@kerouac.com
Date: 97-05-13
12:34:27 EDT
CHINASKI
The streetlight
glared at the dirty sidewalk
Dried-out puke on
the curb
Air conditioners
spit from fourth floor window ledges
Down ancient
chipped grafitti-covered brick, caked with grime
Smell of
piss round the corner in the alley
Mixed with scents
of stale smoke, flat beer
And sour
grease-coated garbage cans
Nestled in the
glass of broken liquor bottles
And cigarette
butts, crushed cardboard boxes
First, I saw the tip of his lit snipe
He was sitting on
an old ratty corn-colored couch cushion
Propped up
against the side of a dumpster
And as soon as he
saw me notice him
He farted
And I laughed
"Hey, Hank
. . .
Where the fuck
you been, man?"
copyright
1997 Chuck Perrin
All
Rights Reserved
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:42:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: test
test
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:55:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s,a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Truth
At 11:50 AM
5/18/97 PDT, you wrote:
>At 11:25 AM
5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>forever
blunder
>>salvage
>>f o r g e
t
>>the blue
>>
>Blunders
>Engineered in
coofffeeee shops
>Forgetting
universal humanity
>You babies
beautiful were innocent,
>now killing
colors?
>Then forget
the Red, White and Green too.
>
>Just see
black and white, and spam.
>www.ellensburg.com/~digress
>
green flags and
ham
said
Spam I
am
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:57:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s,a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: ruth weiss
At 04:14 PM
5/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Saw ruth
weiss, poet, beat, read the other day backed by a guy on bass. She
>says that she
was one of the innovators of reading poetry to jazz, back in
>1956. (she
doesn't say originators). She had a nice little workshop before
>her reading
where 5 of us just sat around and talked and bs'ed about the
>beats, San
Fran in the 50's, and motivations for writing.
>
>Bonus
question- why does ruth weiss write her
name in all low caps?
>
>answer later,
>enjoy, Attile
>
because she can
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:01:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s,a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Truth
At 05:27 PM
5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>so the
steering column spins
>by the
scanning bird
>wearing a hat
of fudge
pack it sez the
bird
but the fudge
won't
budge
>
>----------
>: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>: Subject:
Re: Truth
>: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 12:21 PM
>:
>: a Pakistan
screms in the bed!
>: the hearth
is lost,
>: my god,
we're u?
w/the f.o.'s
singing
god is
dead
>:
>: At 11.25
18/05/97 -0500, you wrote:
>: >forever
blunder
>: >salvage
>: >f o r g
e t
>: >the
blue
a message then a
deeper
message
>: >
>:
>----------
>: >: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>: >: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>: >:
Subject: Re: Truth
>: >: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
>: >:
>: >: this white
>: >: sky blur
>: >: myself
>: >:
>: >:
>: >:
> Truth is an ethereal entity.
somewhere in Massachusetts
ghosts order out for
pizza
the check's in the mail.
>: >: >
James M.
>: >: >
>: >: >
>: >
>: >
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:34:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wlt4@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: STARSPOTTING Re: Chaput is Kaput!
In a message
dated 97-05-16 03:00:35 EDT, you write:
<< THE
Spice Girls sang live last night
for the first time on a stage to show
they can perform their complicated
harmonies >>
Uh, what complicated harmonies??
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:37:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re:
Truth
sit inside the
elephants epidermis
to understand why
the you don't
drown in the rain
----------
: From: s,a.
griffin <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re:
Truth
: Date: Sunday,
May 18, 1997 10:01 PM
:
: At 05:27 PM
5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
: >so the
steering column spins
: >by the
scanning bird
: >wearing a
hat of fudge
:
: pack it sez the
bird
: but the fudge
: won't
: budge
: >
: >----------
: >: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: >: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: >: Subject:
Re: Truth
: >: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 12:21 PM
: >:
: >: a
Pakistan screms in the bed!
: >: the
hearth is lost,
: >: my god,
we're u?
:
: w/the f.o.'s
singing
: god is
: dead
: >:
: >: At 11.25
18/05/97 -0500, you wrote:
: >:
>forever blunder
: >:
>salvage
: >: >f o r
g e t
: >: >the
blue
:
: a message then
a
: deeper
:
: message
:
: >: >
: >:
>----------
: >: >:
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: >: >: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: >: >:
Subject: Re: Truth
: >: >:
Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
: >: >:
: >:
>: this white
: >:
>: sky
blur
: >:
>: myself
: >: >:
: >: >:
: >: >:
> Truth is an ethereal entity.
:
: somewhere in Massachusetts
: ghosts order out for
: pizza
:
: the check's in the mail.
: >: >:
>
James M.
: >: >:
>
: >: >:
>
: >: >
: >: >
: >
: >
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:55:26 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse
(helped myself, sorry)
In-Reply-To: <199705190301.UAA22217@calvin.usc.edu>
> >so the
steering column spins
twisting the
wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
> >by the
scanning bird
> >wearing
a hat of fudge
> pack it sez
the bird
> but the
fudge
> won't
> budge
being quite
comfortable with the flock
> >: a
Pakistan screms in the bed!
> >: the
hearth is lost,
> >: my
god, we're u?
> w/the f.o.'s
singing
> god is
never quite
> dead
just sleeping,
snoring and
schleping
> >:
>forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar
> >:
>salvaging
> >: >f
o r g e t.
the blue:
> a message
then a
> deeper
>
> message
> >:
>: "this white
> >:
>: sky blur
> >:
>: myself"
> >: >:
> Truth is an ethereal entity.
but arent we all?
god sleeping head
resting on the bar, hands limply at sides, having been
unconscious since
the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
> ghosts order out for
> pizza
> the check's in the mail.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:41:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Taking a Stand
It is very
gratifying for me to see a number of people have come forward in
the last few days
to explain how they feel about "The Issue". Most of those
who have spoken
have said they can support one side for certain reasons and
think the other
side might be credible as well for other reasons. This is
understandable. This is a very complex situation and it
appears there is no
black or
white. Getting the issues out on the
table and discussing them like
the adults we are
is a good start, however.
I'd like to thank
those of you who have posted a note or e-mailed me
privately that
you're glad we're talking about this and you support my
efforts to spur
the debate. A few days ago David Rhaesa
referred to me
casually as the
"Voice of Reason". I showed it
to my wife. The next day she
and I were out
walking our dogs and got into a minor disagreement over a
trivial
point. I looked her in the eye
supressing an easy grin and teased,
"Darlin',
there's no sense arguing with the "Voice of Reason". Now she says
there's no living
with me!
I apologize to
anyone who may think I'm getting boorish and tying up the list
with too many
long winded posts. There are a few more
issues I'd like to
examine, though.
The first is I
have a confession to make. I never had
any intention of
getting involved
in this Estate Battle. For four years I
have avoided it
like the plague
and up until two or three weeks ago I had fully expected it
would remain that
way.
I first met Gerry
Nicosia a number of years ago when we ran a series of
Kerouac related
events at our now defunct bookstore.
Arthur & Kit Knight
came in one
evening and talked about their various works.
Another night
Carolyn Cassady
led a discussion on her life with Neal and Jack, and her son
John Allen was in
attendance lending his unique perspective.
A third event
featured Gerry
Nicosia talking about Memory Babe.
During the course
of this third evening, Gerry engaged me in a private
conversation
regarding what was happening with Jan's efforts against John
Sampas. I listened politely but didn't ask a whole
lot of questions and
didn't encourage
the topic. My wife and I had a business
to run. We weren't
making any money
at it and quite frankly I really didn't want to get involved
in what looked to
me to be a problematic argument at best.
Sometime later I
met Gerry Nicosia for the second time at the 1994 NYU
conference. He was one of the few people I knew there and
he was kind enough
to help me find a
ticket to the sold out Town Hall event.
He introduced me
to Paul Blake who
was wearing a tee-shirt that had printed on it the now
famous letter
Jack wrote to "Little Paul" the day before Jack died. Gerry and
I probably spoke
for a total of five minutes at NYU. He
briefly once again
tried to win me
over to his cause. For the second time I stayed non-commital.
I didn't want to get involved. Gerry gave up on trying to convince me and
we each went
about our business.
The point of my
telling you this is I want to introduce you to my thought
process regarding
this whole affair. I distinctly remember
thinking while at
NYU, "Boy,
is this a no-win situation. Stay out of it because if you take
sides you're
going to piss somebody off and if you back the wrong horse,
you're
screwed". I also remember having
the very clear thought in my mind,
"It's one
thing for somebody to be mad at you because you didn't take a
position. It'll
be an entirely different story if the eventual winner is
pissed at you
because you agreed with the other side".
I remember thinking
if I ever hoped
to become a part of this Kerouac community, if I ever hoped
to have access to
anything other than the books as they were published, I'd
be best served to
stay neutral.
So I blew Gerry
off. I made the politically safe choice
of not getting
involved.
I haven't seen
Gerry Nicosia since. He was scheuled to
come in for another
booksigning about
a year ago after the re-release of Memory Babe by
UC-Berkeley. We wound up closing our store about a month
before that
scheduled date so
of course that event got cancelled.
I don't know why
after sitting on the fence for so long I finally decided to
publicly state
that people should listen to what Nicosia has to say. Maybe
it's because with
Jan now dead and Gerry carrying on the fight alone I have
more sympathy, I
don't know. All I know is when he was
trying to make his
argument here on
the Beat-L and his opponents were trying to shout him down,
not with the
force of argument but with sheer numbers and noise, I felt I
finally had to
take a stand. Politics be damned, he
deserved to be heard.
I know there are
others out there who don't want to take a public stand
because they
don't want to "back the wrong horse".
Revealing your position
is
dangerous. It forever marks you as
aligned with one side or another. For
the people in
Lowell, for the people at LCK, for the people involved at the
NYU events, the
Whitney exhibit, the Rykodisc, most of these people have ties
to the Estate
that is now controlled by John Sampas.
Without John Sampas'
cooperation their
events would not have even been possible.
If people are
keeping quiet it might be because they don't want to risk
ruffling any
feathers. I can understand that. I can also understand
Nicosia's
pespective. I imagine it is easy for him
to view anyone who is
keeping their
silence because they want to remain in Sampas' good favor with
access to Kerouac
material and involvement in Kerouac events as being in
Sampas'
camp. Nicosia may or may not be right
about that. In fact I'd bet
he is probably
right about some people and wrong about others.
Now I'm not here
to embarass or shame anyone that they need to stand up and
be counted. We all do what we do for a variety of
reasons... because we
think it is
right, because it is politically expedient, because we have
business
relationships, because we may or may not be interested.
I do think we
should examine our reasons for doing what we do. And I think
it is valid to
question the reasons and motivations of others as well. It's
one thing for
someone to honestly disagree with someone else because they
think they are
wrong. It's quite another when they are
less than candid
about their real
motivations.
John Sampas may
not have been heard on this List, but he has had an influence
on our
discussion. There are people here who
are involved with him
professionally,
and I can appreciate that for them, staying quiet is the
politically
expedient choice. There are well known
sayings that reflect
their
positions... "You don't bite the hand that feeds you" and "Dance
with
the one who brung
ya" are two that come to mind.
Some times there
are other reasons for staying quiet. All
of Gerry's most
vocal detractors
have been quiet for some time now, I'm sure in the hopes
this thread will
play itself out if they can avoid adding fuel to the fire.
They're hoping
everyone will get bored with it and go back to focusing on
other every day
topics.
We've heard from
more than a few people "we should do our own research. We
should not trust
anyone's word in this. There are
errors/inaccuracies/lying
going on on both
sides". I finally figured out what
some of these people are
really
saying. Some of them are saying, "I
don't want to take a public
position because
of political expediency. I may have
opinions but for my own
reasons I don't
want to make them known".
Other people are
using the very same words of "do your own research, don't
trust anyone,
everybody's lying" to try to muddy up the debate. They know
they can't win
the debate with the force of their own argument so they try to
avoid losing it
by stirring up the muck. Who is saying
what for which
reasons I will
leave up to each individual to judge.
There is a term
that is commonly used when people know something and may be
able to shed some
light on a particular situation but stay quiet for their
own reasons. It's called a "Conspiracy of
Silence". Geez! There's that
word again!
Like I said
earlier, I don't want to embarrass or shame anyone into speaking
about what they
know or taking a public position, but I would like to
-convince-
everyone to share what they know.
Sharing what you know or what
you believe can
only bring more truth to bear on the situation.
BTW, I reject the
positon that fighting over the estate is "against
everything Jack
stood for" or that "none of it matters anyway". Those are
things we can
argue about when we all get to Heaven and find out for sure if
any of it ever
really did matter. Here, today on this
earth, we're alive and
we have the power
to influence events. And regardless of
what we may choose
to do every
moment of our lives we have to be doing something with our time
and the lives God
gave us. And as long as we have to be
doing something
maybe we should be
doing something that is important and can have an impact
on future
generations.
In my opinion
Jack Kerouac's Archives meet that criteria.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:09:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Bonus Question
My guess: Low Self-Esteem. Maybe an attempt to Suggest That She Lacks
Pretentions.
James M.
P.S. When are you going to let us know the
<cough> true story?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:24:59 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike & Casper -Friendly Ghost
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Re: Truth
At 11:25 AM
5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>forever
blunder
>salvage
>f o r g e t
>the blue
>
>----------
>: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
>: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>: Subject:
Re: Truth
>: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
>:
>: this white
>: sky blur
>: myself
>:
>:
>: > Truth is an ethereal entity.
>: > James M.
why write in all
smalls? Why not?
Inspired by
colors short above
my books love today sorting
each shelf a hue cohort
it makes more
sense now than before.
all the books
looks good now.
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 03:55:47 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Taking a Stand
Jerry Cimino
wrote:
>
A few days ago David Rhaesa referred to me
> casually as
the "Voice of Reason". I
showed it to my wife. The next day she
> and I were
out walking our dogs and got into a minor disagreement over a
> trivial
point. I looked her in the eye
supressing an easy grin and teased,
>
"Darlin', there's no sense arguing with the "Voice of
Reason". Now she says
> there's no
living with me!
>
>
For your wife's
sake, it was obvious a typo. should have
been "Voice of
Treason" or
"Voice of Season" ..... :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 05:25:05 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Secret Mullings About Bill
i saw reference
yesterday to something like this being a work in
progress of
Kerouac's at some point.
given that i'm a
burroughs' junkie (and seem to becoming a Kerouacian as
well) i'd love to
read Jack's insights into William.
was this ever
published in any form? are there
photocopies in some
vault?
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:08:43 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Thomas Harberd
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Question: WSB and Foucault?
Does anyone know
if WSB ever met (or read) Foucault? It
seems that they
share many common concerns, especially those
relating to power
structures and control. They were also
both homosexual,
although that's perhaps a bit of a weak
(trite)
link. Just wondering...
Tom. H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
"A Bear of
Very Little Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 08:04:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Taking a Stand
Jerry Cimino
wrote:......
>
> BTW, I
reject the positon that fighting over the estate is "against
> everything
Jack stood for" or that "none of it matters anyway". Those are
> things we
can argue about when we all get to Heaven and find out for sure if
> any of it
ever really did matter. Here, today on
this earth, we're alive and
> we have the
power to influence events. And
regardless of what we may choose
> to do every
moment of our lives we have to be doing something with our time
> and the
lives God gave us. And as long as we
have to be doing something
> maybe we
should be doing something that is important and can have an impact
> on future
generations.
>
> In my
opinion Jack Kerouac's Archives meet that criteria.
>
> Jerry Cimino
Jerry i feel for
your wife, that was a great post, sound , a story with
that elusive
truth ringing.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:01:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: Truth
at the drive in
in the old mans
ford
behind them
bushes
till i'm screamin
for more
down in the
basement
lock the celar
door
and baby
talk dirty to me
----------
: From: Mike
& Casper -Friendly Ghost <digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re:
Truth
: Date: Monday,
May 19, 1997 1:24 AM
:
: At 11:25 AM
5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
: >forever
blunder
: >salvage
: >f o r g e t
: >the blue
: >
: >----------
: >: From:
Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
: >: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: >: Subject:
Re: Truth
: >: Date:
Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM
: >:
: >: this white
: >: sky blur
: >: myself
: >:
: >:
: >: > Truth is an ethereal entity.
: >: >
James M.
:
:
: why write in
all smalls? Why not?
: Inspired by
colors short above
: my books love today sorting
each shelf a hue cohort
: it makes more
sense now than before.
: all the books
looks good now.
:
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:06:01 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Question: WSB and Foucault?
Thomas Harberd
wrote:
>
> Does anyone
know if WSB ever met (or read) Foucault?
It
> seems that
they share many common concerns, especially those
> relating to
power structures and control. They were
also
> both
homosexual, although that's perhaps a bit of a weak
> (trite)
link. Just wondering...
>
> Tom. H.
>
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
> "A Bear
of Very Little Brain"
some overlap but
Foucault didn't wrote thick arhealogical philosophy
while Burroughs
wrote thick novels. it seems this choice
of form is a
significant
difference.
Foucault was
primarily a cannabis partaker. bowl on
the shelf near his
work table read
to unblock writer's block.
but there are
some parallels in methods as with all the new critics of
language. Writing was 50 years behind painting and
critical theory was
25 years behind
Writing.... :)
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:57:22 +0200
Reply-To: Jean.ORY@hol.fr
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jean ORY <Jean.ORY@HOL.FR>
Organization: ORY
Jean
Subject: Looking for quote
Can anybody on
the list send me the right quote in English from "On the
road"
It is a five or
six lines long text.
Jack Kerouac
write something like:
"The only
people who counts for me are people who live intensively, who
explodes like
fireworks in the sky and every body says: Whaaa!"
Thanks
Jean
I am still
looking for any quote of Allen Ginsberg about Jimi Hendrix
He talked about
Bob Dylan, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Dead,
Arlo Guthrie,
etc.
He must have met
Hendrix and said something about him.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:40:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki
<peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: Looking for quote
Quote from
"On the Road" by Jack Kerouac
(Signet paperback
edition page 9.)
Speaking about
Dean Moriarty and Carlo Marx (Neal Cassady and Allen Ginsburg):
"But then
they danced down the streets like dingledodies, and I shambled
after as I've
been doing all my life after people who interest me, because
the only people
for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad
to talk, mad to
be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones
who never yawn or
say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, burn like
fabulous yellow
roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars . .
."
>Can anybody
on the list send me the right quote in English from "On the
>road"
>It is a five
or six lines long text.
>Jack Kerouac
write something like:
>"The
only people who counts for me are people who live intensively, who
>explodes like
fireworks in the sky and every body says: Whaaa!"
>
>Thanks
>
>Jean
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:00:21 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Looking for quote
In-Reply-To: <v01530500afa5f96e4eea@[204.181.15.86]>
On Mon, 19 May 1997,
Michael Czarnecki wrote:
> Quote from
"On the Road" by Jack Kerouac
>
> "But
then they danced down the streets like dingledodies, and I shambled
> after as
I've been doing all my life after people who interest me, because
> the only
people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad
> to talk, mad
to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones
> who never
yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, burn like
> fabulous
yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars . .
> ."
Why does everyone
truncate this passage right at this point? It messes up
the rhythym if
you don't complete it, IMHO :
"....and in
the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody
goes
'Awww!'"
*******
Jeff Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:05:10 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Looking for quote
Jeff Taylor
wrote:
>
>
> Why does
everyone truncate this passage right at this point?
what's truncate?
is it a good or evil thing?
illiterate in the
centre of the universe,
david rhaesa
salina, kansas
p.s. anybody
planning the jaunt this way to see Robert Peters, he's on
the third day of
a three-day prairie festival and it costs around $20.00
for admission or
something like that.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:18:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: I'm baaaack.
Pardon me if this
message has been posted once or twice before I have had a
few problems with
the sending of my mail and I have modified this a bit.
Gerry, I have
been away for a few days. I really didn't go to Greece with
John Sampas
although it sounds like it might have been fun. I see since I've
been gone you
have posted several messages criticizing me because I
suggested that a
Xerox copy would be just as good for a scholar to study as
an original. Wow
Gerry, what did you post like ten messages on that such=
as... =20
"When I said
let me speak to my equal, I mean someone who has trained in
this area for as
many years as I have. I'd like to hear
Ann Charters come
on here and try
to tell me that "Xeroxes are just as good as originals."
She'd make a
laughingstock of herself before the academic community, and
that's why she
won't do it. So they send on someone
like Chaput instead,
who has nothing
to lose."
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
and...
Chaput comes on
like a freshman humanities student claiming he knows more
about the world
than Plato--but he hasn't even read Plato yet, let alone
understood him.
First off Gerry I
would like to ask you. Do your lips ever get sore from
blowing your own
horn? Gerry you want to speak to someone you think is your
equal but that's
gonna be tough for you after all Jesus Christ is dead and
by the way you
talk that's about the only person you think is better than
you. Gerry, I
never claimed to be a scholar or that I was an expert on
anything and I
don't think I ever said I knew more about the world than
Plato. I don't
pretend to be something I'm not. I'm just a shmuck trying to
make a living
like everyone else. I just wasn't aware I had to be a scholar
or genius to talk to you on "your level"
sorry. And how do you know if I
have read or
understood Plato or anyone else for that matter? You really
know nothing
about me. And who is the "they" in the above post...So
"they"
send on someone
like Chaput instead... Gerry are "they" coming to get you
soon? Well about the Xeroxes what I meant was if a
university copies a
document (I'm
assuming it's done professionally and isn't missing half the
pages) That copy
is just as good to study (If it's an exact copy) as the
original. It was
just a comment refering to Attila's post on the same
subject. But it
really intrigues me when you make a comment like... I'd
like to hear Ann
Charters come on here and try to tell me that "Xeroxes are
just as good as
originals." She'd make a
laughingstock of herself before
the academic
community,... well Gerry do you remember this post you made to
Paul Maher:
To Paul Maher:
indeed there are 2,000 Kerouac letters (in Xerox) in
my MEMORY BABE
collection at U Mass, Lowell, Special Collections (the Mogan
Center)... Best always, Gerry Nicosia
So it seems you
come on the list and belittle people about what fools they
are to say
something like XEROXES are OK but meanwhile you yourself in your
famous archive
have placed according to your own words
2000 XEROX Kerouac
letters in
"your" Memory Babe archive. That's XEROX Gerry. What's this a
case of DO AS I
SAY NOT AS I DO. So whose the laughingstock Gerry? The moon
is made of green
cheese. By the way about those XEROX letters that you
copied. Copying
an author's letters and selling them without permission is
against the law .
As a GREAT SCHOLAR you should know that. I asked my
brother-in-law
he's a prosecutor in Arizona and has had some experience with
copyright
violation. So it looks like what you did was a no-no. Martha Mayo
of U-LOWELL was
right when she said you sold her a "crippled" archive no
wonder you
couldn't get the other dealers or universities to buy it.=20
Now about the
fact that you said John Sampas has only placed a few Xeroxes
of letters in
NYPL. I am giving Paul Maher of the "Kerouac Quarterly" a list
of 8 pages of items John Sampas has placed (yes
,through his dealer) in the
BERG collection
of the NYPL that list will be published in the next issue of
Paul's
"Kerouac Quarterly" .I can assure you these are not XEROXES like
yours and some
are manuscripts of major importance. I hope this makes you
feel better. If
you or anyone doubts the accuracy of that list, feel free to
call the NYPL and
check it with them once the list is published. This should
prove to the
readers of the list and a lot of others that some of your
accusations about
the Sampas' are unfounded. Your mission is to get all of
Kerouac=92s archives
in a University or library for future study. This is a
good thing that I
would like to see too. I think we all would. But let's not
live in a fantasy
world. It=92s not ours to decide. The reason you think=
that
you and Jan and
Paul Blake can do it is because Gabrielle's will is forged.
That=92s the
premise for your entire argument. READ PAUL MAHER=92S POST=
ABOUT
THAT-I=92ll post
it at the end of this letter. Well I don't think the will =
is
forged I don't think Stella could have done that
(and I knew Stella). I
don't think she
would have had to. I think Gabriel would have wanted to
leave it to her
after all she was her nursemaid and companion for many
years? So anyhow
Gerry even if the will was forged
Stella's estate would
still legally get
1/3 of it, Jan's estate with John Lash as executor would
get 1/3 and Paul
Blake would get 1/3. So if as you say John Lash is on John
Sampas' side now
(he wants you out of the picture right?) and he is the
executor of her
estate well that's 2/3 of the entire estate. If they decide
not to put it in
an archive they don't have to legally. It would be their
legal property.
In the long run even if you win they will do what they want
with their legal
property. Think of the position your putting John in. If he
doesn=92t put the
stuff in an archive he is a monster according to you and=
if
he does I=92m
sure you will claim he did it because of you. He can=92t win=
with
you. It really
won't matter though because John Lash-executor of Jan's
estate will
probably win his case against you (It's not John Sampas' case)
and get you taken
out of the picture like he wants.
Oh I really enjoyed rod Astees "found
poem" thread it did bring some humor
into this whole
mess. You must admit it was pretty funny.
I know you
enjoyed the
Subject "Chaput is Kaput" too you used it a million times but
it's pronounced
SHA-POO not SHA-PUT. You know that.
and...
=85What I got
instead was Phil Chaput throwing 20 lies a day at me
to answer, to
keep me away from any real discussion of what is being done,
and I'm sure
there are going to be hundreds more before he's done.
=
=20
Gerry Nicosia
I thought this
WAS a real discussion about what is being done. Let's see 30
days times 20
lies a day That's six hundred lies. That will be a lot of Hail
Mary's and Our
Fathers for me at the confessional.=20
I've about had it with your accusations
so pardon me if I don't
answer yours or
Jo's or Jerry's rebuttals. I'm tired of all this. After your
rebuttal let's
take a break and talk about something else.=20
Thanks,
Phil Chaput-not a scholar, not
an expert but not
a liar. Just voicing my opinion.=20
Subject: Re: Conspiracies
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>>And like
I said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? =
We
>>have the
power to investigate this. Do we have to
be so fractured that we
>>can't
stand to look at the truth?
>>
>>
The truth? The
problem with stating the truth is that the truth will get you
blasted,
threatened, ridiculed, and above all, doubted. I sincerely think
the idea of a
conspiracy is ill-founded. The signature on the will looks
like any of the
other items that are from Gabrielle Kerouac's hand AFTER HER
STROKE. I don't
think matching it before she was an invalid is valid and
admittable as
evidence.
>And it is not
fair. I had the liberty of seeing letters and contracts from
the archive and
now I can see what a horrible waste of time this all is. So
there...blast me.
I could care less right now for explanations or ways to
make me look
foolish or branded an arch-criminal. My educated mind tells me
different than
all the propaganda you have been fed. I inquired, I saw, I am
now convinced.
Goodnight all, Regards, Paul Maher of The Kerouac=
Quarterly...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:47:36 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: I'm baaaack.
Phil Chaput
wrote:
>
the Subject
"Chaput is Kaput" too you used it a million times but
> it's
pronounced SHA-POO not SHA-PUT. You know that.
>
Kaput is
pronounced Ka-poo at least in my dreams
Kaput is Shampoo
Kaput is Sniffed
Glue
Kaput is Swine
Flu
we should all
change the subject lines to reflect proper pronunciation
david rhaesa
pronounced Racey
as in "Spacey Racey" an old nick-name that still haunts
me from time to
time.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:50:42 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Clay Vaughan
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: "a baneful influence"
In doing some of
my "professional reading" (so-called) here in
the ODU Art
Library, I have stumbled across a very wonderful
editorial in the
latest issue of that self-appointed Conscience of
Culture, THE NEW
CRITERION. Now any of you who are familiar with
this journal will
be able to predict their take on the passing of
Allen Ginsberg,
but I thought you all might appreciate a little
pick-me-up, a
little unintentional humor vis-a-vis the myopic
apperceptions of
Hilton Kramer et Co., sentiments that make the
George Will piece
on the Ginsberg legacy sound positively balanced
and SOBER!
THE NEW
CRITERION's commentary is so completely fatuous, so utterly
ridiculous and
rife with paranoia and perceptions so completely off
the mark you
might wonder how or why such an editorial piece drooling
and drowning in
such blather could appear in their pages... EXCEPT
that THE NEW
CRITERION's agenda as such a protector of the retro-
cultural status
quo requires that they go on in precisely this way.
Titled "A
baneful influence", some of jewels contained therein
include:
"Long before his death at the age of
seventy, he had managed to
con a gullible cultural establishment into
celebrating him as a
major poetic talent and icon of sexual and
political
liberation.... The truth is that Allen
Ginsberg was an apostle of
drug abuse, promiscuous homosexuality, and
shameless
exhibitionism. He specialized in blending
mindless anti-
Americanism with spurious forms of oriental
"spirituality."... His
status as a guru of the drug-sodden,
blissed out Left made him a
powerful and baneful influence on an entire
generation of
adolescents. It is impossible to calculate
how many lives
Ginsberg's smiling hedonism
blighted...."
and then, on the poetry,
whining first about Robert Pinsky's and
Edward Field's
favorable remarks, and later couching every instance of
the word
"poetry" or "poems" in quotes, suggesting what? we needn't
wonder....):
"...Ginsberg is the perfect literary
equivalent of the emperor's
new clothes. From beginning to end, his
'poetry' is nothing but
flatulent adolescent posturing, without
art, verbal delicacy, or
poetic subtlety.... He is the Rod McKuen,
the Kahlil Gibran of
the counterculture.... Much of Ginsberg's
'poetry' is little more
than a species of self-absorbed
pornography...."
and then
specifically recalling "Howl", THE NEW CRITERION calling it
an "aptly named verbal
cacophany". They say, "The botched lives
Ginsberg reported on were not the 'best
minds' of his generation,
not by a long shot. But his example did
indeed help to destroy
many more minds and bodies...."
and this goes on
and on ad nauseam, til their final flourish
(containing
probably my perversely favorite lines):
"...he was a charlatan and a buffoon
whose public antics would
have been merely pathetic had they not
contributed so mightily to
the moral degradation of our times."
It's an editorial
take on that grand poet's legacy which, if there is
a heaven and if
Ginsberg has pockets in his heavenly robes, Allen's
walking this
commentary around, and pulling out his copy of this
latest for all to
read, and doubtless driving all the angels crazy.
Clay Vaughan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:50:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s,a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse
(helped myself, sorry)
At 09:55 PM
5/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>> >so
the steering column spins
>twisting the
wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
>> >by
the scanning bird
>>
>wearing a hat of fudge
>> pack it
sez the bird
>> but the
fudge
>> won't
>> budge
>being quite
comfortable with the flock
>> >: a
Pakistan screms in the bed!
>> >:
the hearth is lost,
>> >: my
god, we're u?
>> w/the
f.o.'s singing
>> god is
>never quite
>> dead
>just
sleeping, snoring and
>schleping
>> >:
>forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar
>> >:
>salvaging
>> >:
>f o r g e t.me nots
>
> the blue:
>> a
message then a
>> deeper
>>
>> message
:
don't f o r g e
t.to put out the cat
>> >:
>: "this white
>> >:
>: sky blur
>> >:
>: myself"
>> >:
>: > Truth is an ethereal
entity.
>but arent we
all?
>Frank Sinatra
as god the rock star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,
hands limply at
sides, having been
>unconscious
since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
>> ghosts of Dean & Sammy
order out for
>> pizza
>> the check's in the mail.
the music begins
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:53:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ruth weiss
In a message
dated 97-05-18 17:18:44 EDT, you write:
<< Bonus
question- why does ruth weiss write her
name in all low caps?
Because of e.e.cummings.....
....Her shift key was broken? ...she could only afford half-height
typewriter ribbons? ...her version of Word 6.0 was a beta
version and was
not caps-capable? ...she is secrtly related to derek beaulieu
and marie
countryman and they were all seperated at
birth?
.....her position on capital punishment? I give up!
>>
And the answer is
(though I liked some of the above answers better): in the
german language
nouns are capitalized. i forget now if she was born is
germany or vienna
but in either case she fled the germans during wwii, so in
protest to the
nazis she starting writing mostly in lower caps, including her
name.
enjoy, attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:13:12 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Truth OTR
OTR (Signet, p.
128): "Then we turned to feats of
athletic prowess. Dean
completely amazed
me. He had Ed [Dunkel] and me hold a bar
of iron up to
our waists, and
just standing there hopped right over it, holding his
heels. 'Go ahead, raise it.' We kept raising it till it was chest-high.
Still he jumped
over it with ease. Then he tried the
running broad jump
and did at least
twenty feet and more. Then I raced him
down the road. I
can do the
hundred in 10:5. He passed me like the
wind. As we ran I had a
mad vision of
Dean running through all of life just like that--his bony
face outthrust to
life, his arms pumping, his brow sweating, his legs
twinkling like
Groucho Marx, yelling, 'Yes! Yes! man, you sure can go!'
But nobody could
go as fast as he could, and that is the truth."
Real, literal
question: It is true that Neal could
jump over an iron bar
held chest high
(or even waist high), presumably from just standing there,
holding his
heels?
Rhetorical
questions: Or is this fabled leap a
literary truth (hyperbole)
in the Am.
tradition of tall tales? And if so, how
do we tell the
difference
between truth and literary truth when it comes to literary and
legal issues
related to Jack and his actual and imaginary life and estate?
<There must be
some way outta here, sd the Joker to the Thief.
There's too
much confusion [a
virtual thread in OTR], I cain't get no relief.>
John M.
Imaginary Estate
Agent
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:01:07 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse
(helped myself, sorry)
In-Reply-To: <199705192150.OAA08756@calvin.usc.edu>
> >>
>so the steering column spins
> >twisting
the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
one hand on the
wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
half conscious
woman yelping
" i'm
scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
words&booze
"pack it sez
the bird
but the fudge
won't budge," she laughs to herself;
> >being
quite comfortable with the flock
> >>
>: a Pakistan screms in the bed!
> >>
>: the hearth is lost,
> >>
>: my god, we're u?
> >>
w/the f.o.'s singing
> >> god
is
> >never
quite
> >>
dead
> >just
sleeping, snoring and
>
>schleping
> >>
>: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar
ogling the
waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing
the bartender,
> >>
>: >salvaging
> >>
>: >f o r g e t.me nots
for his lapel
> > the blue: a massage then a
> >>
deeper massage :
> "don't
f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as the
bed vibrates
magic
fingers
> >>
>: >: "this white
> >>
>: >: sky blur
> >>
>: >: myself"
> >>
>: >: > Truth is an
unconscious entity.
> >but
arent we all?
> >Frank
Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,
> hands limply
at sides, mouth open
having been
passed out since
the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
>
>> ghosts of
Dean & Sammy order out for
>
>> pizza
>
>> the check's
in the mail.
>
> the music begins &
they take the stage
once
again.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:08:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeanne Vaccaro
<SlugBug747@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Looking for quote
Oh gee, I knew
exactly which quote you were speaking of .... particularly
because everyone
at my school feels the need to quote it in their year book
half pages...
it's funny, i go
to this college prep school (Horace Mann, NY)...infamous
obviously for
Jack and WCW (Ginsberg read their in in 1980).
Well anyway,
these people are
so ... exactly alike one another. They dress the same, talk
the same, I swear
they feel the same... they all qoute this one qoute, as if
that made them
experts of JK or any of his work. I bet they haven't even read
On The Road,
rather got it out of one of these "Portable Quotations" books.
The ironic part is that
because
> the only
people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad
> to talk, mad
to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones
> who never
yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, burn like
> fabulous
yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars . .
> ."
well they don't
want mad people, or they don't act like it... they wasnt
everyone to be
the same...makes me crazy...
Sorry, I had to
get that out of my system....
Ciao, Jeanne
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:04:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Durand <LCKerouac@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: 9th ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY
PRIZE
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: 9th ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE
Date: 97-05-19 13:47:51 EDT
From: BeatRyder
To: LCKerouac
Experienced and
emerging writers are invited to submit written works in
competition for
the 9th
Annual Jack
Kerouac Literary Prize. This Prize will consist of a $500
honorarium and
the
invitation to
present the prize manuscript at a public reading during the
annual Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival
to be held in Lowell, Massachusetts from October 1 through
October 5, 1997.
SUBMISSIONS MUST
MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:
1. All works must
be in English and not previously published. One winner of
the
Literary Prize
will be chosen. A number of entries, at the discretion of the
judge,
may be awarded
Honorable Mention.
2. Submissions
will be accepted between March 1, 1997 and August 1, 1997.
Deadline for all
entries is August 1, 1997.
3. The author's
name must not appear anywhere on the manuscript.
4. Submissions
must be accompanied by a 3x5 card containing the author's
name,
address,
telephone number, and manuscript title.
5. Authors retain
all rights and priveleges to their work, including
copywrite, but
manuscripts will
not be returned.
6. There is a
$5.00 administrative fee for each manuscript entry. Please make
checks payable to
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
7. Submissions
must meet the following format requirements:
Fiction:
a. Submit one,
typed, double-spaced copy of your manuscript;
b. your entry
must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a novel, or a
maximum of three
(3) short stories with a combined length of thirty (30)
pages or
less.
Poetry:
a. submit one,
typed copy of your manuscript;
b. each copy is
to include a maximum of eight (8) poems with a combined
length
of fifteen (15)
pages or less; your entry must not exceed fifteen (15) pages.
Non-fiction:
a. submit one
typed, double-spaced copy of your manuscript;
b. your entry
must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a volume, or a
maximum of three
(3) essays with a combined length of thirty (30) pages or
less.
8. Please submit
manuscripts to:
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize
P.O. Box 8788
Lowell, MA
01953-8788
9. Authors will
receive notification of the prize winner in September of
1997.
The Jack Kerouac
Literary Prize is sponsored by Middlesex Community College,
the
University of
Massachusetts at Lowell, Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! (a
non-profit
organization),
and the Estate of Jack and Stella (Sampas) Kerouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:51:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>
Subject: Re: Truth OTR
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901afa6966f9f87@[141.224.144.84]> from "John
Mitchell" at
May 19, 97 06:13:12 pm
Hi, I'm somewhat
new on the list; been reading your discussions for a few
days. Just like
everybody here I am a believer in the divinity named Jack
Kerouac. He can
make me cry and he can make me cry. I had to jump in because
all of the talk
about truth and reality. So: WHO CARES WHETHER SOMETHING IS
TRUE OR NOT!
There can't be only one truth. And if you felt really mighty
and strong
because Neal could do whatever he wanted when you read this
paragraph, and if
you felt that you can do the same, I don't think that it
makes any
difference whether it was true or not.
Thank you.
>
> Real,
literal question: It is true that Neal
could jump over an iron bar
> held chest
high (or even waist high), presumably from just standing there,
> holding his
heels?
>
> Rhetorical
questions: Or is this fabled leap a
literary truth (hyperbole)
> in the Am.
tradition of tall tales? And if so, how
do we tell the
> difference
between truth and literary truth when it comes to literary and
> legal issues
related to Jack and his actual and imaginary life and estate?
>
> <There
must be some way outta here, sd the Joker to the Thief. There's too
> much
confusion [a virtual thread in OTR], I cain't get no relief.>
>
> John M.
> Imaginary
Estate Agent
>
PS. What is a
literary truth anyhow?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:55:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"
In-Reply-To: <696D3146231@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
mean people suck.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:03:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments: To:
"a baneful influence"@cruzio.com
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> mean people
suck.
> mc
> .-
Been hectic for
me with only time for an occasional glance at the list,
over my shoulder
at times,hee heh, but sure am glad i stopped for a
second to see
Marie is back!
Hey Gerry, you
left out the nice things I also said about your heart
spilling out in
our midst. Not that I want to fan the coals.
leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Cassady Question....
I have "Holy
Goof"and "Off The Road"...What other good Cassady
Biographies are
there?
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:49:28 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Clay Vaughan
<CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady Question....
There are two
volumes of letters...
GRACE BEATS KARMA
(letters from prison)
AS EVER (letters
b/n Ginsberg & Cassady)
and another book
I've only heard of in passing, though I've never
seen it:
FRIENDLY AND
FLOWING SAVAGE: THE LITERARY LEGEND OF NEAL CASSADY, by
Gregory
Stephenson.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:01:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse
(helped myself, sorry)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970519175316.32600A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
>> >>
>so the steering column spins
>>
>twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
>one hand on
the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
>half
conscious woman yelping
>" i'm
scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
>words&booze
>"pack it
sez the bird
> but the
fudge
> won't
budge," she laughs to herself;
>>
>being quite comfortable with the flock
>> >>
>: a Pakistan screms in the bed!
>> >>
>: the hearth is lost,
>> >>
>: my god, we're u?
>> >>
w/the f.o.'s singing
>> >>
god is
>>
>never quite
>> >>
dead
>> >just
sleeping, snoring and
>>
>schleping
>> >>
>: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar
>ogling the
waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing
>the
bartender,
>> >>
>: >salvaging
>> >>
>: >f o r g e t.me nots
>for his lapel
>>
> the blue: a massage then a
>> >>
deeper massage :
>>
"don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as
the
>bed vibrates
>magic
>fingers
>> >>
>: >: "this
white
>> >>
>: >: sky blur
>> >>
>: >: myself"
>> >>
>: >: > Truth is an
unconscious entity.
>> >but
arent we all?
>>
>Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,
>> hands
limply at sides, mouth open
> having been
>passed out
since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
>>
>> ghosts of
Dean & Sammy order out for
>>
>> pizza
>>
>> the check's in the mail.
>>
>> the music begins &
they take the stage
> once
again.
once again
elvis has left
the building,
hounded
"you aint nuthin but-a"
holy elvis speaks
to me
virginia woolf
hands to me
the selfsame rock
still dripping
from the thames..
and off the
off-beaten paths
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:01:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassady Question....
The Friendly and
Flowing Savage book about Cassady by Gregory Stephenson was
published in
1987. It was issued as a stapled book by Textile Bridge Press
(now out of
print; TBP defunct)
The entire text
of FFS was included in Stephenson's great book, "The Daybreak
Boys":
Essays on the literature of theBeat Generation.
Hardcover 1990.
For more info,
email me -
Thanks -
Jeffrey
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:22:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: pome/thought to ponder of the
day
In-Reply-To: <6A9CEB71368@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>
yeats,
"responsibilities" 1914:
141
A Coat
i made my song a
coat
covered with
embroideries
out of old
mythologies
from heel to
throat;
but the fools
caught it,
wore it in the
world's eyes
as though they'd
wrought it.
song, let them
take it,
for there's more
enterprise
in walking naked
____________
why does mc use
so much lower case? because it's there.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:26:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassady Question....
Thanks to Clay Vaughan and Jeffrey Weinberg for
answering my letter.
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:14:21 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"
In-Reply-To: <l03020909afa7163d9151@[206.25.67.128]>
At 09:55 AM
5/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>mean people
suck.
>mc
but nice people
swallow ;)
ttfn.
Lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:44:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Truth OTR
In a message dated
97-05-19 22:31:56 EDT, you write:
<< It is true that Neal could jump over an iron
bar
held chest high (or even waist high),
presumably from just standing there,
holding his heels? Rhetorical questions: Or is this fabled leap a
literary truth (hyperbole)
in the Am. tradition of tall tales? >>
I think it is in
the tradition of tall jumps.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:44:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Truth OTR
In a message
dated 97-05-20 03:32:14 EDT, you write:
<< Just
like everybody here I am a believer in the divinity named Jack
Kerouac. He can make me cry and he can make me
cry. I had to jump in because
all of the talk about truth and reality. So:
WHO CARES WHETHER SOMETHING IS
TRUE OR NOT! There can't be only one truth.
>>
Are you a true
believer in the divinity of Kerouac? Did you really cry? Do
you care if it's
true of not?
THERE IS ONLY ONE
TRUTH.
But the truth may
be that there is more then one truth.
Unless the truth
is that there is only one truth.
non-believer of
truth unless it's true
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:53:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mick Parsons
<mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>
Subject: Re: pome/thought to ponder of the
day
In-Reply-To: <l03020905afa7371f4b42@[206.25.67.110]>
hey marie...
thanx for the
pome... it made my day...
by the by,
welcome back... you were missed
mick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know the
passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred
of the masses; but no respect for humanity, no false
modesty, no
conspiracy, no
universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the
unspeakable
jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."
Mick Parsons
-Baudelaire
mparsons@netcrafters.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 21:33:12 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too
; more apologies.
In-Reply-To: <l03020902afa72fb58d50@[206.25.67.128]>
> >>
>> >so the steering column spins
> >>
>twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
> >one hand
on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
> >half
conscious woman yelping
> >"
i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
>
>words&booze
>
>"pack it sez the bird
> > but the
fudge
> > won't
budge," she laughs to herself;
> >>
>being quite comfortable with the flock
> >>
>> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!
> >>
>> >: the hearth is lost,
> >>
>> >: my god, we're u?
> >>
>> w/the f.o.'s singing
> >>
>> god is
> >>
>never quite
> >>
>> dead
> >>
>just sleeping, snoring and
> >>
>schleping
> >>
>> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the
bar
> >ogling
the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing
> >the bartender,
> >>
>> >: >salvaging
> >>
>> >: >f o r g e t.me nots
> >for his
lapel
> >>
> the blue: a massage then a
> >>
>> deeper massage :
> >>
"don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as
the
> >bed
vibrates
> >magic
> >fingers
> >>
>> >: >:
"this white
> >>
>> >: >:
sky blur
> >>
>> >: >:
myself"
> >>
>> >: >: > Truth is an
unconscious entity.
> >>
>but arent we all?
> >>
>Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,
> >>
hands limply at sides, mouth open
> > having
been
> >passed
out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
> >>
>> ghosts of
Dean & Sammy order out for
> >>
>> pizza
> >>
>> the check's
in the mail.
> >>
>
>> the music
begins & they take the stage
> > once
again.
>
> once again
> elvis has
left the building,
> hounded
> "you aint nuthin but-a"
> holy elvis
speaks to me
> virginia
woolf hands to me
> the selfsame
rock
> still
dripping from the thames..
> and off the
off-beaten paths
>
-but for once the
rain stops
because altho'
i have rust under my fingernails,
elvis is rapidly running out of buildings
the checks don't even bounce very high
and i can no longer tell whether I am
overweight
or otherwise
because despite
rattletrap due rent
peeling carapace from
crick neck staring at
high tide marks
lost dog of an old
city
because despite : we have been around
been about to hear the right stories
the right people ; electric current.
faraway lights.
we have at least learned mythology.
so nothing new, just prosaic :
I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,
and it'll be just the same as always ;
what is more, if it's not
we have at least learned how to pretend.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:43:17 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse
(helped myself, sorry)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970519175316.32600A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
concerning all
this "fudge wont budge" stuff:
i am considering
publishing a chapbook. would anyone mind
if i included
this poem? (as
well as "On the work of burroughs")
could those who
participated - and continue as well -
please contact me
if you have any
complaints, and to pipe up with yr names (marie, rinaldo,
olly, and
others...) etc...
thanks a bundle
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:09:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
In-Reply-To: <3381AF44.1F8CFB9D@cruzio.com>
05-20-97 leon
wrote:
>Hey Gerry,
you left out the nice things I also said about your heart
>spilling out
in our midst.
>
>leon
leon,
That thought is
one I'd appreciate seeing in context. Care to share it?
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:28:28 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too
; more apologies.
Olly Ruff wrote:
>
> >
>> >> >so the steering column spins
> >
>> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
> > >one
hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
> >
>half conscious woman yelping
> >
>" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
> >
>words&booze
> >
>"pack it sez the bird
> > >
but the fudge
> > >
won't budge," she laughs to herself;
> >
>> >being quite comfortable with the flock
> >
>> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!
> >
>> >> >: the hearth is lost,
> >
>> >> >: my god, we're u?
> >
>> >> w/the f.o.'s singing
> >
>> >> god is
> >
>> >never quite
> >
>> >> dead
> >
>> >just sleeping, snoring and
> >
>> >schleping
> >
>> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins
at the bar
> >
>ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing
> > >the
bartender,
> >
>> >> >: >salvaging
> >
>> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots
> > >for
his lapel
> >
>> > the blue: a massage then
a
> >
>> >> deeper massage :
> >
>> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans
absentmindedly, as the
> > >bed
vibrates
> >
>magic
> >
>fingers
> >
>> >> >: >:
"this white
> >
>> >> >: >:
sky blur
> > >>
>> >: >:
myself"
> >
>> >> >: >: >
Truth is an unconscious entity.
> >
>> >but arent we all?
> >
>> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the
bar,
> >
>> hands limply at sides, mouth open
> > >
having been
> >
>passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
> >
>> >>
ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for
> >
>> >>
pizza
> >
>> >>
the check's in the mail.
> >
>>
> >
>> the music
begins & they take the stage
> >
>
once again.
> >
> > once
again
> > elvis
has left the building,
> > hounded
> > "you aint nuthin but-a"
> > holy
elvis speaks to me
> > virginia
woolf hands to me
> > the
selfsame rock
> > still
dripping from the thames..
> > and off
the off-beaten paths
> >
> -but for
once the rain stops
> because altho'
> i have rust under my fingernails,
> elvis is rapidly running out of buildings
> the checks don't even bounce very high
> and i can no longer tell whether I am
overweight
> or otherwise
> because despite
> rattletrap due rent
> peeling carapace from
> crick neck staring at
> high tide marks
> lost dog of an old
> city
>
> because despite : we have been around
> been about to hear the right stories
> the right people ; electric current from
my brain to yrs.
> faraway lights.
> we have at least learned mythology.
>
> so nothing new, just prosaic :
> I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,
> and it'll be just the same as always ;
> what is more, if it's not
> we have at least learned how to pretend.
and we pretend
this mythology
through every
backward
county road
and dust-bowl
picnic ground
on the map
from Taos to the
shores of Maine
and the rain is
the
same everywhere
whether pretense
or not ...
it is WET !
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:50:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ron Guest
<rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Where is Gerry Nicosia?
Where is Gerry Nicosia?? I noticed a couple of beat-ls have baited him
a
little, but no
reply. This guy can't be gone. Wheather he was right or
wrong, he got us
fired up..people were name calling, demeaning, caring,
hateful,inspiring,
thoughtful, asinine, pouring their hearts out, speaking
in tongues. I mean, this guy made people go nuts. Gerry, we need a little
spark here.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:44:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: My introduction
Hi Natalie from
Kansas,
Thanks for the greetin'. To be honest, I don't know where I'm from.
My mother tells
me that I came from her womb and before that a combination
of one of her
eggs and one of my father's sperm. But
before that your guess
is as good as
mine.
I currently reside in British Columbia,
Canada, or at least that's what
the signs seem to
suggest. I'm skeptical.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:19:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too
; more apologies. -Reply
Comments: To:
race@midusa.net
>>> RACE
--- <race@MIDUSA.NET> 05/20/97 04:28pm >>>
Olly Ruff wrote:
>
> >
>> >> >so the steering column spins
> >
>> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
> > >one
hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
> >
>half conscious woman yelping
> >
>" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
> >
>words&booze
> >
>"pack it sez the bird
> > >
but the fudge
> > >
won't budge," she laughs to herself;
> >
>> >being quite comfortable with the flock
> >
>> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!
> >
>> >> >: the hearth is lost,
> >
>> >> >: my god, we're u?
> >
>> >> w/the f.o.'s singing
> >
>> >> god is
> >
>> >never quite
> >
>> >> dead
> >
>> >just sleeping, snoring and
> >
>> >schleping
> >
>> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins
at the
bar
> >
>ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him,
harrassing
> > >the
bartender,
> >
>> >> >: >salvaging
> >
>> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots
> > >for
his lapel
> >
>> > the blue: a massage
then a
> >
>> >> deeper massage :
> >
>> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans
absentmindedly,
as the
> > >bed
vibrates
> >
>magic
> >
>fingers
> >
>> >> >: >:
"this white
> >
>> >> >: >:
sky blur
> >
>> >> >: >:
myself"
> >
>> >> >: >: >
Truth is an unconscious entity.
> >
>> >but arent we all?
> >
>> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on
the bar,
> >
>> hands limply at sides, mouth open
> > >
having been
> >
>passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
> >
>> >>
ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for
> >
>> >>
pizza
> >
>> >>
the check's in the mail.
> >
>>
> >
>> the music
begins & they take the stage
> >
>
once again.
> >
> > once
again
> > elvis
has left the building,
> > hounded
> > "you aint nuthin but-a"
> > holy
elvis speaks to me
> >
virginia woolf hands to me
> > the
selfsame rock
> > still
dripping from the thames..
> > and off
the off-beaten paths
> >
> -but for
once the rain stops
> because altho'
> i have rust under my fingernails,
> elvis is rapidly running out of buildings
> the checks don't even bounce very high
> and i can no longer tell whether I am
overweight
> or otherwise
> because despite
> rattletrap due rent
> peeling carapace from
> crick neck staring at
> high tide marks
> lost dog of an old
> city
>
> because despite : we have been around
> been about to hear the right stories
> the right people ; electric current from
my brain to yrs.
> faraway lights.
> we have at least learned mythology.
>
> so nothing new, just prosaic :
> I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,
> and it'll be just the same as always ;
> what is more, if it's not
> we have at least learned how to pretend.
and we pretend
this mythology
through every
backward
county road
and dust-bowl
picnic ground
on the map
from Taos to the
shores of Maine
and the rain is
the
same everywhere
whether pretense
or not ...
it is WET !
Like the the
fingers in my face,
driping with the
rain off the windshield.
And curbs blur by
in blue/black
with time bending
and laughter
and booze;
"There was one?!"
She says. "What?" Says I,
as my eyes bend
upward to
the gray clouds
and I think of
old war
documentaries.
I've forgotten in
the midst of the
music, memories
and cigarette smoke
why I'm out
tonight.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:51:34 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too
; more apologies.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.95q.970520211752.18928A-100000@blue.csi.cam.ac. uk>
>> >>
>> >so the steering column spins
>> >>
>twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
>> >one
hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
>> >half
conscious woman yelping
>>
>" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
>>
>words&booze
>>
>"pack it sez the bird
>> > but
the fudge
>> >
won't budge," she laughs to herself;
>> >>
>being quite comfortable with the flock
>> >>
>> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!
>> >>
>> >: the hearth is lost,
>> >>
>> >: my god, we're u?
>> >>
>> w/the f.o.'s singing
>> >>
>> god is
>> >>
>never quite
>> >>
>> dead
>> >>
>just sleeping, snoring and
>> >>
>schleping
>> >>
>> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the
bar
>>
>ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing
>> >the
bartender,
>> >>
>> >: >salvaging
>> >>
>> >: >f o r g e t.me nots
>> >for
his lapel
>> >>
> the blue: a massage then a
>> >>
>> deeper massage :
>> >>
"don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as
the
>> >bed
vibrates
>>
>magic
>>
>fingers
>> >>
>> >: >:
"this white
>> >>
>> >: >: sky
blur
>> >>
>> >: >:
myself"
>> >>
>> >: >: > Truth is an
unconscious entity.
>> >>
>but arent we all?
>> >>
>Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,
>> >>
hands limply at sides, mouth open
>> >
having been
>>
>passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
>> >>
>> ghosts of
Dean & Sammy order out for
>> >>
>> pizza
>> >>
>> the check's
in the mail.
>> >>
>>
>> the music
begins & they take the stage
>>
>
once again.
>>
>> once
again
>> elvis
has left the building,
>> hounded
>> "you aint nuthin but-a"
>> holy
elvis speaks to me
>> virginia
woolf hands to me
>> the
selfsame rock
>> still
dripping from the thames..
>> and off
the off-beaten paths
>>
>-but for once
the rain stops
> because
altho'
> i have rust
under my fingernails,
> elvis is
rapidly running out of buildings
> the checks
don't even bounce very high
> and i can no
longer tell whether I am overweight
> or otherwise
> because
despite
> rattletrap
due rent
> peeling
carapace from
> crick neck
staring at
> high tide
marks
> lost dog of
an old
> city
>
> because
despite : we have been around
> been about
to hear the right stories
> the right
people ; electric current.
> faraway
lights.
> we have at
least learned mythology.
>
> so nothing
new, just prosaic :
> I'll meet
you in the botanical gardens,
> and it'll be
just the same as always ;
> what is
more, if it's not
> we have at
least learned how to pretend.
>
>
I'M WALKIN'
i am walking
the man has
with him a shopping bag
i am walking i am walking
he crunched the apple
the man has crunched the apple
i'm walkin' i'm walkin' SIR my soul is blur
MY SOUL IS BLUR sir GOD god of the dream
i'm walkin' i'm walkin' SIR my soul is blur
give me a dream SIR do asleep myself
i'm walkin' i'm walkin'
i'm walkin' i'm walkin'
i am walking through corners of dream
corners of dream
i have not hide for myself behind
corners in a dream
mother
i'm walkin'
father
i'm walkin'
brother
i'm walkin'
sister
i'm walkin'
take a lunch with
your brother-- says still the mother
mother my brother is dead you know! u
know!
take a lunch,
rinaldo!-- says still my mother
yes mother
yes mother
yes mother
these shining corners
in the dream
they tears
they tears
the man has crunched the apple
the man has crunched the apple
i'm walkin'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:10:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse
(helped myself, sorry)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.93.970520144107.24616C-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
>concerning
all this "fudge wont budge" stuff:
>i am
considering publishing a chapbook. would anyone mind if i included
>this poem?
(as well as "On the work of burroughs")
>could those
who participated - and continue as well
- please contact me
>if you have
any complaints, and to pipe up with yr names (marie, rinaldo,
>olly, and
others...) etc...
>thanks a
bundle
>yrs
>derek
____________
make it so, insp
d!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 01:40:13 +0100
Reply-To: or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge
Comments: To:
RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <3382177C.5DC3@midusa.net>
On Tue, 20 May
1997, RACE --- wrote:
> Olly Ruff
wrote:
> >
> > >
>> >> >so the steering column spins
> > >
>> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets
> > one
hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
> > >
>half conscious woman yelping
> > >
> " i'm scanning for the bird
wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
> > >
> words&booze
> >
> "pack it sez the
bird
> > >
> but the fudge
> > >
> won't budge," she
laughs to herself;
> >
>being quite comfortable with the flock
> > >
>> > : a Pakistan screms
in the bed!
> > >
>> : the hearth is lost,
> > >
>> > : my god, we're u?
> > >
>> >> w/the f.o.'s
singing
> > >
>> >>
god is
> > >
>> >
never quite
> > >
>> >>
dead
> > >
>> > - just sleeping, snoring and
> > >
>> >schleping
> > >
>> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins
at the bar
> > >
>ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing
> > >
>the bartender,
> > >
>> >> >: >salvaging
> > >
>> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots
> > >
>for his lapel
> > >
>> > the blue: a massage
then a
> > >
>> >> deeper massage :
> > >
>> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans
absentmindedly, as the
> > >
>bed vibrates
> > >
>magic
> > >
>fingers
> > >
>> >> >: >:
"this white
> > >
>> >> >: >:
sky blur
> > >
>> >> >: >:
myself"
> > >
>> >> >: >: >
Truth is an unconscious entity.
> > >
>> but arent we all?
> > >
>> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the
bar,
> > >
>> hands limply at sides, mouth open
> > >
> having been
> > >
>passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
> > >
>> >>
ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for
> > >
>> >>
pizza
> > >
>> >>
the check's in the mail.
> > >
>>
> > >
>> the music
begins & they take the stage
> > >
>
once again.
> > >
> >
> once again
> >
> elvis has left the building,
> >
> hounded
> >
> "you aint nuthin but-a"
> >
> holy elvis speaks to me
> >
> virginia woolf hands to me
> >
> the selfsame rock
> >
> still dripping from the thames..
> >
> and off the off-beaten paths
> > >
> >-but for
once the rain stops
> > because altho'
> > i have rust under my fingernails,
> > elvis is rapidly running out of buildings
> > the checks don't even bounce very high
> > and i can no longer tell whether I am
overweight
> > or otherwise
> > because despite
> > rattletrap due rent
> > peeling carapace from
> > crick neck staring at
> > high tide marks
> > lost dog of an old
> > city
> >
> > because despite : we have been around
> > been about to hear the right stories
> > the right people ; electric current from
> my brain to yrs.
> > faraway lights.
> > we have at least learned mythology.
> >
> > so nothing new, just prosaic :
> > I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,
> > and it'll be just the same as always ;
> > what is more, if it's not
> > we have at least learned how to pretend.
>
> and we pretend this mythology
> through every backward
> county road
> and dust-bowl
picnic ground
> on the map
> from Taos to
the shores of Maine
> and the rain
is the
> same
everywhere
> whether
pretense or not ...
> it is WET !
>
but tonight of all nights i can't feel it.
it's harder to pretend things contrary
to the Evidence
(backed up with several thou' years)
- but then i'm a talent...
... & i'm back with Sinatra &
steering columns,
spray splash waitress
white blur
hearth dust bowl check
stage mail
a dead man
marking time...
salvage ; may as well pick flowers out
of the split kerb
there's no choice to be made
it's
a spent coin over a crossed
line.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 19:56:44 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: why all the backchannel????
folks keep
sending me backchannels of the exploding poem along with
sending them to
the Beat-L and i don't understand why ...
back to the NBA
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:05:33 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"
At 12:14 PM
5/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At 09:55 AM
5/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>mean
people suck.
>>mc
>
>but nice
people swallow ;)
>
>ttfn.
>
>Lisa
>--
>
>Lisa M. Rabey
>Internet and
Computer Consultant
>San
Francisco, California
>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>**************************************
>General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>
>
praise the nice
people. if you want good head, give only
the best!
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:56:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge
At 01:40 AM
5/21/97 +0100, you wrote:
>On Tue, 20
May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
>> Olly
Ruff wrote:
>> >
>> >
> >> >> >so the steering column spins
>> >
> >> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the
streets
>> > one
hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with
>> >
> >half conscious woman yelping
>> >
> > " i'm scanning for the
bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
>> >
> > words&booze
>> >
> "pack it sez the
bird
>> >
> > but the fudge
>> >
> > won't budge," she
laughs to herself;
>> >
>being quite comfortable with the flock
>> >
> >> > : a Pakistan
screams in the bed!
>> >
> >> : the hearth is lost,
>> >
> >> > : my god, we're u?
>> >
> >> >> w/the
f.o.'s singing
>> >
> >> >> god is
>> >
> >> >
never quite
>> >
> >> >> dead but gives
the most
delicious head however at
the moment
>> >
> >> > - just sleeping, snoring and
>> >
> >> >schleping
>> >
> >> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and
napkins at the bar
>> >
> >ogling the waitress, pushing himself onto the women next to him,
harrassing
>> >
> >the bartender,
>> >
> >> >> >: >salvaging
>> >
> >> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots
>> >
> >for his lapel
>> >
> >> > the blue music
of a past life comes up on the juke box
: a massage then a
>> >
> >> >> deeper massage :
>> >
> >> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" the court jester
moans absentmindedly, as the
>> >
> >bed vibrates
>> >
> >magic
>> >
> >fingers up & down the spine
>> >
> >> >> >: >: "this white
>> >
> >> >> >: >: sky blur
>> >
> >> >> >: >: myself"
>> >
> >> >> >: >: >
Truth is an unconscious entity.
>> >
> >> but arent we all mad?
>> >
> >> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent rock star sleeping w/head
resting
on the
> bar,
>> >
> >> hands limply at sides, mouth open
>> >
> > having been
>> >
> >passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts
>> >
> >> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order
out for
>> >
> >> >>
pizza
>> >
> >> >>
the check's in the mail.
tired of watching Hee
Haw reruns on the cable t.v.
Elvis shoots the television with
his hunk of burning love gun
The King has been
to see his main man Dr. Nick Feelgood
Big E feels
tall & small at the same time
as he
unhitches his lip
from the side of head
& whispers
love me tender to the weeping
willow trees
swinging
softly in the Memphis breeze
he kisses the
toes of sweet Mercy Gotlegs
in the back seat of the
his titty pink
'57
Eldorado where big bang theories are
practiced
but never preached
the Colonel busy frying
dancing dixie
chickens who failed to make the
grade
does a bong hit of
some kickass two hit wonder weed
from way out west
California way
he passes it on to slick Tricky Dick
Nixon who
inhales
the beauty of
everything deeply as the sky runs for
president
& slides
out of control
>> >
> >>
>> >
> >> the music begins & they take the stage
>> >
> >
once again.
>> >
>
>> >
> once again
>> >
> elvis has left the building,
>> >
> hounded
>> >
> "you aint nuthin but-a"
>> >
> holy elvis speaks to me
>> >
> virginia woolf hands to me
>> >
> the selfsame rock
>> >
> still dripping from the thames..
>> >
> and off the off-beaten paths
>> >
>
>> >-but
for once the rain stops
>>
> because altho'
>>
> i have rust under my fingernails,
>>
> elvis is rapidly running out of
buildings
>>
> the checks don't even bounce very
high
>>
> and i can no longer tell whether I
am overweight
>>
> or otherwise
>>
> because despite
>>
> rattletrap due rent
>>
> peeling carapace from
>>
> crick neck staring at
>>
> high tide marks
>>
> lost dog of an old
>>
> city
>> >
>>
> because despite : we have been
around
>>
> been about to hear the right
stories
>>
> the right people ; electric current
from
>> my brain to yrs.
>>
> faraway lights.
>>
> we have at least learned mythology.
>> >
>>
> so nothing new, just prosaic :
>>
> I'll meet you in the botanical
gardens,
>>
> and it'll be just the same as
always ;
>>
> what is more, if it's not
>>
> we have at least learned how to
pretend.
>>
>> and we pretend this mythology
>> through every backward
>> county road
>> and
dust-bowl picnic ground
>> on the
map
>> from
Taos to the shores of Maine
>> and the
rain is the
>> same
everywhere
>> whether
pretense or not ...
>> it is
WET !
>>
> but tonight of all nights i can't feel it.
> it's harder to pretend things contrary
> to the Evidence
> (backed up with several thou' years)
> - but then i'm a talent...
>
> ... & i'm back with Sinatra &
steering columns,
> spray splash waitress
white blur
> hearth dust bowl check
stage mail
>
>
> a dead man
marking time...
>
>
> salvage ; may as well pick flowers out
of the split kerb
> there's no choice to be made
it's
> a spent coin over a crossed
line.
hey man,
I ain't gonna lie
I need money for a beer
who you gotta fuck to get
outta here?
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 19:16:52 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse
(helped myself, sorry)
At 02:43 PM
5/20/97 -0600, you wrote:
>concerning
all this "fudge wont budge" stuff:
>i am
considering publishing a chapbook. would anyone mind if i included
>this poem?
(as well as "On the work of burroughs")
>could those
who participated - and continue as well
- please contact me
>if you have
any complaints, and to pipe up with yr names (marie, rinaldo,
>olly, and
others...) etc...
>thanks a
bundle
>yrs
>derek
>
>
I guess my name
should be included since I kicked the danged thing off way
back when.I
thought about publishing the burroughs/ginsberg thing at a later
date as a sort of
picasso type thingy (remember the bull?) by publishing the
entire process as
a book since I have the entire thing saved step by step
from the git
go. hope all is well with you. did my latest alteration 'bout
half hour
ago. look forward to chapbook. all the
best -
xxxooo
s.a. griffin
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:52:44 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: fudge wont budge pts.1 thru 5 (last word?
egad??)
In-Reply-To: <199705210156.SAA10274@calvin.usc.edu>
PART ONE
so the steering column spins
twisting the wheels spitting the
spray splash from the streets
one hand on the wheel and the bottle,
windows fogged with
half conscious woman yelping
" i'm scanning for the bird
wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of
words&booze
"pack it sez the bird
but the fudge
won't budge," she laughs
to herself;
being quite comfortable with
the flock
" a Pakistan
screams in the bed!" she yells as if an
illumnination
: the hearth is lost,
: my god, we're u?
w/the f.o.'s singing
god is
never
quite
dead but gives the most
delicious head however at
the moment
- just sleeping, snoring and
schleping
forever blunder(ing) with the
cocktails and napkins at the bar
ogling the waitress, pushing himself onto
the women next to him,
harrassing
the bartender,
salvaging
f o r g e t.me nots
for his lapel
the blue music of a past life
comes up on the juke box
: a massage then a deeper
massage :
"don't f o r g e t.to put out the
cat" the court jester
moans absentmindedly, as the
bed vibrates
magic
fingers up & down the spine
"this white
sky blur
myself"
Truth is an
unconscious entity.
but arent we all mad?
Frank Sinatra as
god the spent rock star sleeping w/head resting
on the
bar,
hands limply at sides, mouth open
having been
passed
out
since the rise of plastic somewhere in
Massachusetts
ghosts of Dean & Sammy
order out for
pizza
the check's in the mail.
PART TWO
tired of watching Hee
Haw reruns on the cable t.v.
Elvis shoots the television
with his hunk of burning love gun
The King has been to see his main man Dr. Nick
Feelgood
Big E feels
him up good & tall &
small at the same
time
as he
unhitches his lip
from the side of head
and his belt from the
GRACELAND buckle
& whispers
love me tender to the weeping
willow trees
swinging
softly in the Memphis breeze
he kisses the
toes of sweet Mercy Gotlegs
in the back
seat of the his titty pink
'57
Eldorado where
stephen hawking's big bang theories are
practiced
but never preached
the Colonel busy frying
dancing dixie
chickens who failed to make the
grade - no grade A eggs round here no sir - we
only like the best he
laffs and grabs
at the titts next to him
does a bong hit of some kickass two
hit wonder weed
from way out west
California way
he passes it on
to slick Tricky Dick Nixon who
inhales
the beauty of
everything deeply as the sky runs for
president. nixon pacing and yells at the king
"THE LEAST THE PRESIDENT
SHOULD KNOW HOW
TO DO IS
SUCK
&
INHALE,
GODDAMMITALL!"
PART THREE
the music begins &
they take the stage
once again.
once again
elvis has left the building,
hounded
"you aint nuthin but-a"
holy elvis speaks to me "singing
words of wisdom"
virginia woolf hands me the selfsame rock
still dripping from the
thames.. the blood of richard
nixon & emily
dickonson - both
enshrined in thier rooms.
watching with raven eyes thru
the drapes.
-but for once the rain stops
because altho'
i have rust under my fingernails,
"elvis is rapidly running out of
buildings" mumbles nixon to sinatra
under his
ginbreath,
"the checks don't even bounce very high,
and i can no longer tell
whether I am
overweight
or otherwise
because despite
battleship's rent due"
peeling carapace from crick neck staring at
high tide marks
last rabid dog of an old city
because despite : we have been
around
been about to hear the right stories
the right people ; electric current
from
my brain to yrs.
faraway lights.
we have at least learned mythology.
PART FOUR
so nothing new, just prosaic :
I'll meet you in the botanical
gardens,
and it'll be just the same as always ;
what is more, if it's not
we have at least
learned how to pretend.
and run
for cover.
and we pretend this mythology
through every backward
county road
and dust-bowl picnic ground
on the map
from Laos to the shores of Maine
and the rain is
the
same everywhere
whether pretense or not ...
it is WET !
PART FIVE
it's harder to pretend things contrary
to the Evidence
(backed up with several thou' years)
- but then i'm with a true deceptive
talent...
... & i'm back with Sinatra &
steering columns,
spray splash waitress
white blur
hearth dust bowl check
stage mail
a dead man
marking time...
salvage ; may as well pick flowers out
of the split kerb
there's no choice to be made
it's
a spent coin over a crossed
line. (count yr change
after
the plans been hatched)
hey man,
I ain't gonna lie
I need money for a beer
who you gotta fuck to get
outta here?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:09:35 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Truth OTR
Attila Gyenis
wrote:
>
> THERE IS
ONLY ONE TRUTH.
> But the
truth may be that there is more then one truth.
> Unless the
truth is that there is only one truth.
>
> non-believer
of truth unless it's true
> Attila
And I would
further contend that all truth is infinitly mallable and
will be a
different truth tomorrow.
Except maybe that
nice people swallow--that one stays constant.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 23:26:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: fudge won't budge-Haiku
The fudge
Won't budge
Try exlax
(sorry I couldn't
resist)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:36:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: A Found Poem
At 08:51 PM
5/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-15 11:53:58 EDT, Gerry wrote:
>
>> I'm out
for money and power, I'm a glory
>>hunter,
I'm too cheap to donate to a good cause, I'm a "nut," etc.
>
>A "found
poem" and, incidentally, a pretty darn good summary I think.
>Well done,
Gerry.
>
Hey Rod, how many more Kerouac letters did Sampas sell
you for putting up
shit like this?
P.S. When are you gonna resell your Kerouac
letters to the New York Public
Library, since we
keep hearing how everything gets resold there?
Let's see,
I recall sitting
at your kitchen table and reading a Kerouac letter to G.J.
Apostolos,
another to John Clellon Holmes, wasn't there one to Cassady too?
What about those Polaroids of Johnny
Depp with John Sampas? I'll
look for those next
time I'm in New York.
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:01:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: A Found Poem
At 08:36 PM
5/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At 08:51 PM
5/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>In a
message dated 97-05-15 11:53:58 EDT, Gerry wrote:
>>
>>> I'm
out for money and power, I'm a glory
>>>hunter,
I'm too cheap to donate to a good cause, I'm a "nut," etc.
>>
>>A
"found poem" and, incidentally, a pretty darn good summary I think.
>>Well
done, Gerry.
>>
>
>Hey Rod, how many more Kerouac letters did Sampas sell
you for putting up
>shit like
this?
>
>P.S. When are you gonna resell your Kerouac
letters to the New York Public
>Library,
since we keep hearing how everything gets resold there? Let's see,
>I recall
sitting at your kitchen table and reading a Kerouac letter to G.J.
>Apostolos,
another to John Clellon Holmes, wasn't there one to Cassady too?
> What about those Polaroids of Johnny
Depp with John Sampas? I'll
>look for
those next time I'm in New York.
>
>Best, Gerry
>
>Lighten up
Gerry it was just a joke for Christ sake. We were laughing with
you. HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:04:23 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Where is Gerry Nicosia?
At 04:50 PM
5/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Where is
Gerry Nicosia?? I noticed a couple of
beat-ls have baited him a
>little, but
no reply. This guy can't be gone. Wheather he was right or
>wrong, he got
us fired up..people were name calling, demeaning, caring,
>hateful,inspiring,
thoughtful, asinine, pouring their hearts out, speaking
>in
tongues. I mean, this guy made people go
nuts. Gerry, we need a little
>spark here.
>
>Does that
mean what he has is catchy?
Here comes the
snap, crackle and pop too...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 23:51:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: fudge won't budge-Haiku
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970521032654.00698900@pop.tiac.net>
>The fudge
>Won't budge
>Try exlax
>
>
>
>(sorry I
couldn't resist)
Resistance is
golden
When IT
Comes to crud
(sorry, I've got
to run)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 21:58:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: A Found Poem
At 12:01 AM
5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 08:36 PM
5/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>At 08:51
PM 5/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>>In a
message dated 97-05-15 11:53:58 EDT, Gerry wrote:
>>>
>>>>
I'm out for money and power, I'm a glory
>>>>hunter,
I'm too cheap to donate to a good cause, I'm a "nut," etc.
>>>
>>>A
"found poem" and, incidentally, a pretty darn good summary I think.
>>>Well
done, Gerry.
>>>
>>
>>Hey
Rod, how many more Kerouac letters did
Sampas sell you for putting up
>>shit like
this?
>>
>>P.S. When are you gonna resell your Kerouac
letters to the New York Public
>>Library,
since we keep hearing how everything gets resold there? Let's see,
>>I recall
sitting at your kitchen table and reading a Kerouac letter to G.J.
>>Apostolos,
another to John Clellon Holmes, wasn't there one to Cassady too?
>> What about those Polaroids of Johnny
Depp with John Sampas? I'll
>>look for
those next time I'm in New York.
>>
>>Best,
Gerry
>>
>>Lighten
up Gerry it was just a joke for Christ sake. We were laughing with
>you. HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA
>
>
Dear Phil, May 20, 1997
You and Anstee should both go far--and
the sooner you start, the better.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 04:50:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: test - checking reply to line
tried to fix what
some folks suggested caused the backchannels.
gonna
see how i
do. since i don't get a copy can someone
let me know if the
separate reply-to
address has been effectively eliminated
thanks,
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:37:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: test - checking reply to line
At 04:50 AM
5/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>tried to fix
what some folks suggested caused the backchannels. gonna
>see how i
do. since i don't get a copy can someone
let me know if the
>separate
reply-to address has been effectively eliminated
>
>thanks,
>david rhaesa
>
>Dave, if you
send the message SET BEAT-L REPRO in the body of a message to
the address LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU you will be sent a
copy of your own
messages.
Occasionally this shuts off and you may have to reset it. It's the
best way to know
if your messages are being distributed. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:43:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: test - checking reply to line
Phil Chaput
wrote:
>
> At 04:50 AM
5/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >tried to
fix what some folks suggested caused the backchannels. gonna
> >see how
i do. since i don't get a copy can
someone let me know if the
> >separate
reply-to address has been effectively eliminated
> >
> >thanks,
> >david
rhaesa
> >
> >Dave, if
you send the message SET BEAT-L REPRO in the body of a message to
> the
address LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU you
will be sent a copy of your own
> messages.
Occasionally this shuts off and you may have to reset it. It's the
> best way to
know if your messages are being distributed. Phil
thanks. i know that my messages are being sent. i'll probably do what
you've
suggested. the difficulty is that my
e-mail address is appearing
in the From line
and the Reply-to line. at least that was
the case
according to a
couple of folks last night. i tried to
fix that it my
mail
configuration and wondered if i had succeeded.
it appears from
your reply that
the experiment was a success. thanks.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:41:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Cassady Question....
In-Reply-To:
<19970520.103504.20870.0.dean_palmer@juno.com>
On Tue, 20 May
1997, Dean M. Palmer wrote:
> I have
"Holy Goof"and "Off The Road"...What other good Cassady
> Biographies
are there?
Dean:
Charles Plymell's
"Last of the Moccasins" (LOM) has much factual detail
about Neal
Cassady during the time after Neal moved away from Los Gatos and
Carolyn Cassady.
These events described in LOM take place while Neal
hung around with
Anne Murphy, Charles Plymell, Allen Ginsberg, etc. on
Gough St in S.F.
LOM contains abundant Neal Cassady biographical data not
found in any
other source. Also try "Spit in the Ocean" No. 6. Both these
texts seem
necessary to any thorough Neal Cassady study, once you've read
Carolyn Cassady's
"Off the Road," of course.
-Michael L.
Buchenroth
Michael L.
Buchenroth
mike@buchenroth.com
www.buchenroth.com
To view
Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
go to
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:57:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge pts.1 thru 5 (last
word? egad??)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970520202722.48962B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
raindogs and
nighthawks
applaud.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:29:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Nice people swallow..
Nice people
swallow? I don't get it...
Paul
????
********************************************************************************
Attila Gyenis
wrote:
>
> THERE IS
ONLY ONE TRUTH.
> But the
truth may be that there is more then one truth.
> Unless the
truth is that there is only one truth.
>
> non-believer
of truth unless it's true
> Attila
And I would
further contend that all truth is infinitly mallable and
will be a
different truth tomorrow.
Except maybe that
nice people swallow--that one stays constant.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:41:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge pts.1 thru 5 (last
word? egad??)
INFREQUENT
PASSAGE
"Writing a poem is like taking a
hot beer shit..."
---Charles
Bukowski
Seven years sober
Seventy-seven
deadend relationships
To be discarded
Or better yet
Excreted
Thanks to a
Higher Powered Laxative
Blown out the ass
Of codependency
and addiction
Thanks to a high
fiber program
Prescribed by
Bill Wilson, Alice Miller and John Bradshaw
Trusting the
Process
Releasing the
Past, and
Surrendering
To the Absolute
Colonic Dharma
Of Consciousness
Paul McDonald (c)
1993
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:47:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: fudge wont budge pts.1 thru 5 (last
word? egad??)
At 09:41 AM
5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>INFREQUENT
PASSAGE
>
> "Writing a poem is like taking a
hot beer shit..."
>
> ---Charles
Bukowski
>
>Seven years
sober
>Seventy-seven
deadend relationships
>To be
discarded
>Or better yet
>Excreted
>Thanks to a
Higher Powered Laxative
>
>Blown out the
ass
>Of
codependency and addiction
>Thanks to a
high fiber program
>Prescribed by
Bill Wilson, Alice Miller and John Bradshaw
>Trusting the
Process
>Releasing the
Past, and
>Surrendering
>To the
Absolute Colonic Dharma
>Of
Consciousness
>
>Paul McDonald
(c) 1993
Yahoo! Bravo!
(while doin' the wave)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:10:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
Paul McDonald,
TeleReference LA, Main Info Services wrote:
>
> Nice people
swallow? I don't get it...
>
> Paul
> ????
>
It is simple.
Premise #1 Swallowing is a basic biological process.
Premise #2 Nice People swallow
Therefore Niceness is a basic biological process for
people.
the same thinking
applies somewhat to other notions such as "inhaling"!!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:49:01 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
RACE --- wrote:
>
> Paul
McDonald, TeleReference LA, Main Info Services wrote:
> >
> > Nice
people swallow? I don't get it...
> >
> > Paul
> > ????
> >
> It is
simple.
>
> Premise
#1 Swallowing is a basic biological
process.
> Premise
#2 Nice People swallow
>
Therefore Niceness is a basic biological
process for people.
>
> the same
thinking applies somewhat to other notions such as "inhaling"!!
David,
I like this
logic. "Nice people do" works
for me. They certainly
inhale. This suggests logical problems for mc's
"mean people suck"
since sucking is
also basic biological behavior and therefore nice?
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:00:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Conspiracies -- you gotta love em!
Hi, Gerry. Why
would I sell these two letters (count 'em,
TWO letters) that
I bought from the
Estate, 6 years ago now!? They are warm and dry, I can
assure you.
Anyone who's interested can come on up and look at them, if they
call ahead. In
the meantime they seem to irritate you & jogrant so much --
heck, they're worth
every penny!
Besides, Gerry,
I'm practically choking on cash here just at the moment,
after just sealing a deal to sell my
"Nicosia Correspondence Archive" to
some anonymous
"collector" in Lowell. He said he'd heard about it in one of
your posts to the
Beat-List. The guy seemed desperate, I can tell you, in the
end offering
several times what you scared up for your entire MEMORY BABE
archive back in
1987. I was pretty surprised -- who says Lowell doesn't
celebrate
Kerouac! Greek vacation, here I come. Where's my sunblock,....
CHEERS, Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:21:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies -- you gotta love em!
At 11:00 AM
5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi, Gerry.
Why would I sell these two letters (count 'em,
TWO letters) that
>I bought from
the Estate, 6 years ago now!? They are warm and dry, I can
>assure you.
Anyone who's interested can come on up and look at them, if they
>call ahead.
In the meantime they seem to irritate you & jogrant so much --
>heck, they're
worth every penny!
>Besides,
Gerry, I'm practically choking on cash here just at the moment,
> after just
sealing a deal to sell my "Nicosia Correspondence Archive" to
>some
anonymous "collector" in Lowell. He said he'd heard about it in one
of
>your posts to
the Beat-List. The guy seemed desperate, I can tell you, in the
>end offering
several times what you scared up for your entire MEMORY BABE
>archive back
in 1987. I was pretty surprised -- who says Lowell doesn't
>celebrate
Kerouac! Greek vacation, here I come. Where's my sunblock,....
>CHEERS, Rod
>
Dear Rod, May 21, 1997
OKAY, keep your Kerouac letters. They were the least of my worry
anyhow.
I have spent three weeks trying to get
some real answers about how
much of the
KEROUAC ARCHIVE JOHN SAMPAS HAS LEFT, AND WHAT HE INTENDS TO DO
WITH IT, AND
WHEN. Instead, I just keep getting more
personal attacks from
you and Chaput.
Your attacks on me even predated my
coming on to the Beat-List; in
fact, they were a
major cause of my appearance here, in order to set the
record straight.
I have been asking for you and Chaput
to substantiate some of your
claims (the way I
have substantiated mine against John Sampas, with specific
examples of what
he has done to control Kerouac scholarship).
Where are
your examples, to
prove that I am greedy, power-mad, crazy, manipulative,
whatever? Other than that I haven't donated to Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!
(See post later
today from Brad Parker about the ethical lapses of LCK!)
It seems to me if anyone has been
propounding a conspiracy theory,
IT'S YOU AND
CHAPUT. Everything I'm doing--and the
work of all my supposed
cohorts, like
Grant and Parker--is supposed to have been geared toward my
gaining control
of, and money from, the Kerouac Archive.
But if I am so greedy and power-mad,
why didn't I:
1) ask Jan for money from the
beginning?
2) keep a substantial portion of the
benefit money for myself (we
brought in over
twenty thousand dollars gross, and I kept $300 as my salary
for 6 months
solid work)?
3) get Jan to include me as a
beneficiary in her will?
The biggest question, of course, IS HOW
DID I KNOW SHE WAS GOING TO
DIE IN JUNE, THREE
MONTHS BEFORE HER CASE WAS GOING TO TRIAL?
How do you
plan the death of
someone on kidney dialysis, when they can live from one
month to fifteen
years? AND IF JAN HAD TAKEN THE CASE TO
TRIAL HERSELF,
WHAT GAIN WOULD I
HAVE HAD THEN? DID I PUT IN YEARS OF
WORK AT HER SIDE
JUST ON THE
CHANCE THAT SHE'D DIE BEFORE THE CASE CAME TO TRIAL, SO THAT I
COULD TAKE
OVER???
That's a more farfetched conspiracy
theory than even Oliver Stone is
capable of.
Well, suppose it is true that I gambled
on Jan dying before the
trial. SHOW ME HOW I AM GOING TO GET RICH OR HAVE
COMPLETE CONTROL OF
KEROUAC
SCHOLARSHIP, even if we win Jan's lawsuit.
Even should we win, and
should I remain
fully-empowered literary executor, I will still have to deal
with John Sampas
(1/3 owner), Paul Blake, Jr. (1/3 owner), and, quite
possibly, Jan's
heirs--depending on how the court construes the final
authority. I'm sure as hell going to have to compromise
to make things
work, and I'm
ready to compromise. But where is Mr.
Sampas? Is he offering
to compromise at
all?
I haven't seen Mr. Sampas budge one
inch, and yet you guys never
bother showering
him with the barbs you shower on me.
Imagine for a minute, Rod, someone
making endless charges about your
character--claiming
to all the world that you are corrupt thru and thru, and
yet they give not
one real example to prove this alleged corruption.
WOULDN'T YOU BE A
LITTLE TICKED OFF???
Again, I rest my case.
Adios, old friend,
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:11:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Brad Parker Speaks
To members of the
Beat-List, May 21, 1997
Mr. Brad Parker lives in Chelmsford,
Massachusetts. He created the
Lowell
Corporation for the Humanities over ten years ago. He has used this
group to stage
events celebrating many of the important folk who lived in or
passed thru
Lowell, such as Edgar Allen Poe and Betty Davis, as well as Jack
Kerouac. He is also an author of some distinction,
having written a fine
introductory book
on Kerouac, as well as highly praised monographs on Poe
and other
historical figures.
Recently, Mr. Parker learned of certain
denials made by Phil Chaput
that there was ever
any trouble between the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
committee and the
National Park Service. Mr. Parker asked
me to post his
memory of these
events on the Beat-List.
The following statement was made by
Brad Parker on May 16, 1997:
"Enclosed is some information
concerning the events surrounding the
celebration of
Jack Kerouac in Lowell, 1988-1996, and--especially--facts
concerning myself
and the Kerouac Committee (now called 'Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!').
"For years, the group in Lowell
that thought of itself as the
'official'
Kerouac group was getting Federal aid through the Lowell Historic
Preservation
Commission, and, more recently, through their connection with
the Lowell
National Historic Park. Now, they can no
longer receive
assistance from
the Preservation Commission, which went out of business, nor
are they any
longer cosponsored by the National Park.
"The person most responsible for
the termination of the official
relationship
between the Kerouac Committee and the National Park is
myself--Brad
Parker, founder of the Lowell Corporation For The Humanities,
Inc. The whole process (discussion-conflict) that
led eventually to the
termination of
the relationship between the Kerouacians and the Nat. Park
started in 1995
when I wrote to (and subsequently met with) the Supt. of the
National Park,
Richard Rambur. Basically, I had two
complaints
(requests)--that
the Kerouac events sponsored by my organization be included
in any printed
programs or publicity that might be issued by either the Nat.
Park or the
Kerouac Committee, and that my organization also receive federal
assistance
through the Nat. Park if such were being granted to other people
doing Kerouac
programs in Lowell. [My corporation was largely
responsible
for arranging the
scholarly forum on Kerouac's Lowell books in 1988, and I
am the author of
a book on Kerouac that has been used with students at
several
universities.]
"After my initial requests, I
found that there was great resistance
from the Kerouac
Group, and the Nat. Park was suggesting that I had to join
the Kerouac Group
in order to be included in the 'offical' cosponsored
events. Later, after further agitation on my part,
including letters to
Washington, I
received a letter from Sandy Walter (Oct., 1995)--formerly the
Supt. of the Nat.
Park in Lowell--stating that the Nat. Park "does indeed
support the work
of your organization and further supports your right to
request either
co-sponsorship of the Festival and/or have
Corporation-sponsored
events included in the Festival schedule."
Such never
happened, and I
have always assumed that it was largely resistance from a
few of the
Kerouac leaders in Lowell who were unwilling to act in an
inclusive,
mature, sophisticated, and professional manner.
I believe that
there was
conflict over this matter and that the Park and the Kerouac Group
could not resolve
the issue.
"I finally received a letter from
Richard Rambur, the Supt. of the
Lowell Nat. Park,
stating that the relationship between the Park and Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! had been 'officially terminated' by 'mutual consent' as
of the end of
February, 1996. Additionally, I was told
by someone who has
connections with
both groups that there were certain deprecatory remarks
made about Mr.
Rambur at one of the Kerouac Group's meetings, and that those
remarks made
their way back to Supt. Rambur.
"There is, as you know, much more
that can be said about these
matters, but I
shall end here with just another sentence or two. I brought
Jan Kerouac to
Lowell twice--she was never invited by the 'official' Kerouac
Group, even when
the memorial to her father was to be dedicated.
And, as I
have told a
number of people, I was the target of verbal intimidation by one
of the main
Kerouacians in Lowell, and also have been the target of some
verbal assault by
another of that same group. I issued a
formal comlaint
about the above
to The Preservation Commission in 1994 and never have
received a complete
answer!
"All for the moment. Please feel free to share this letter with
anyone who might
wish to know of the above events relating to Lowell and
Kerouac.
"Best Regards -- Brad Parker
(historian and writer)"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:25:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> To members
of the Beat-List, May 21, 1997
>
> Mr. Brad Parker lives in Chelmsford,
Massachusetts. He created the
> Lowell Corporation
for the Humanities over ten years ago.
He has used this
> group to
stage events celebrating many of the important folk who lived in or
> passed thru
Lowell, such as Edgar Allen Poe and Betty Davis, as well as Jack
>
Kerouac. He is also an author of some
distinction, having written a fine
> introductory
book on Kerouac, as well as highly praised monographs on Poe
> and other
historical figures.
> Recently, Mr. Parker learned of
certain denials made by Phil Chaput
> that there
was ever any trouble between the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
> committee
and the National Park Service. Mr.
Parker asked me to post his
> memory of
these events on the Beat-List.
> The following statement was made by
Brad Parker on May 16, 1997:
>
> "Enclosed is some information
concerning the events surrounding the
> celebration
of Jack Kerouac in Lowell, 1988-1996, and--especially--facts
> concerning
myself and the Kerouac Committee (now called 'Lowell Celebrates
> Kerouac!').
> "For years, the group in Lowell that
thought of itself as the
> 'official'
Kerouac group was getting Federal aid through the Lowell Historic
> Preservation
Commission, and, more recently, through their connection with
> the Lowell
National Historic Park. Now, they can no
longer receive
> assistance
from the Preservation Commission, which went out of business, nor
> are they any
longer cosponsored by the National Park.
> "The person most responsible for
the termination of the official
> relationship
between the Kerouac Committee and the National Park is
> myself--Brad
Parker, founder of the Lowell Corporation For The Humanities,
> Inc. The whole process (discussion-conflict) that
led eventually to the
> termination
of the relationship between the Kerouacians and the Nat. Park
> started in
1995 when I wrote to (and subsequently met with) the Supt. of the
> National
Park, Richard Rambur. Basically, I had
two complaints
>
(requests)--that the Kerouac events sponsored by my organization be included
> in any
printed programs or publicity that might be issued by either the Nat.
> Park or the
Kerouac Committee, and that my organization also receive federal
> assistance
through the Nat. Park if such were being granted to other people
> doing
Kerouac programs in Lowell. [My
corporation was largely responsible
> for
arranging the scholarly forum on Kerouac's Lowell books in 1988, and I
> am the
author of a book on Kerouac that has been used with students at
> several
universities.]
> "After my initial requests, I found
that there was great resistance
> from the
Kerouac Group, and the Nat. Park was suggesting that I had to join
> the Kerouac
Group in order to be included in the 'offical' cosponsored
> events. Later, after further agitation on my part,
including letters to
> Washington,
I received a letter from Sandy Walter (Oct., 1995)--formerly the
> Supt. of the
Nat. Park in Lowell--stating that the Nat. Park "does indeed
> support the
work of your organization and further supports your right to
> request
either co-sponsorship of the Festival and/or have
>
Corporation-sponsored events included in the Festival schedule." Such never
> happened,
and I have always assumed that it was largely resistance from a
> few of the
Kerouac leaders in Lowell who were unwilling to act in an
> inclusive,
mature, sophisticated, and professional manner.
I believe that
> there was
conflict over this matter and that the Park and the Kerouac Group
> could not
resolve the issue.
> "I finally received a letter from
Richard Rambur, the Supt. of the
> Lowell Nat.
Park, stating that the relationship between the Park and Lowell
> Celebrates
Kerouac! had been 'officially terminated' by 'mutual consent' as
> of the end
of February, 1996. Additionally, I was
told by someone who has
> connections
with both groups that there were certain deprecatory remarks
> made about
Mr. Rambur at one of the Kerouac Group's meetings, and that those
> remarks made
their way back to Supt. Rambur.
> "There is, as you know, much more
that can be said about these
> matters, but
I shall end here with just another sentence or two. I brought
> Jan Kerouac
to Lowell twice--she was never invited by the 'official' Kerouac
> Group, even
when the memorial to her father was to be dedicated. And, as I
> have told a
number of people, I was the target of verbal intimidation by one
> of the main
Kerouacians in Lowell, and also have been the target of some
> verbal
assault by another of that same group. I
issued a formal comlaint
> about the
above to The Preservation Commission in 1994 and never have
> received a
complete answer!
> "All for the moment. Please feel free to share this letter with
> anyone who
might wish to know of the above events relating to Lowell and
> Kerouac.
> "Best Regards -- Brad Parker
(historian and writer)"
patricia typed
cool, nice tone,
very informative,
i appreciate the
meat sans bile, easier to digest.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:48:18 +0000
Reply-To: davo@cjnetworks.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Ohle <davo@CJNETWORKS.COM>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
Patricia: I'm
lurking again on Beat-L. Must have missed all the recent
controversies.
What's happening?
David Ohle
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:39:40 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: john cage-haiku #2 (what is happened to
me?)
.,-\H
a
,.i,\k..u
mahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
KKK
zen
Oooh, questo non lo sopporto!this
doesn't bear it
bum!
KKK
zen
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
WHEN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD IS FAST
ASLEEP
Brrrrrrrrrrr!
brrr
KKK
Dostoevskij KKK
bum! MUNCH bum!
KKK Wu!
favelle favelle favelle
KKK KKK KKK
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:51:40 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: A Found Poem
In-Reply-To:
<199705210458.VAA14948@italy.it.earthlink.net>
>Dear
Phil, May 20, 1997
>
> You and Anstee should both go far--and
the sooner you start, the
better.
>
> HAHAHAHAHA!
> Gerry
>
>
Gerry, caro paesano,
ben detto!
Gli amici girano
per kilometri
secondo dopo secondo
alla fine del mondo.
Un saluto dall'Italia!
rinaldo *what's happen to rinaldo?*
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:40:10 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: john cage-Haiku, john cage is
alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970521032654.00698900@pop.tiac.net>
>The fudge
>Won't budge
>Try exlax
>
>
>
>(sorry I
couldn't resist)
>
>
.............oh.ah.............
.............ha.ho.............
.............o..a..............
.............a..o..............
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:28:05 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: john cage-haiku #1
tah
toh tahh tohh
at 21:00
gronk
gronk
at 21:01
clock
JOHN CAGE IS
ALIVE, HE IS TALKING... TO ME!
what is happened to me?
r\ i
\
n a\
\
l
\ d
\
o .
------------.......-----------
"Todas las
granas de arena del desierto de
Chihuahua son
vacuidad!" Jack Kerouac the dharma bums
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:48:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Chaput is Back
Dear Phil, May 21, 1997
To answer one of your reasonable
questions--concerning the 2,000
xeroxed Kerouac
letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.
(Letters that are
now under seal because of John Sampas's threat to take
legal action
against the library if they show them without his permission.)
The reason they were xeroxes is because
by far the majority of those
people I
interviewed would not let me carry off their original Kerouac
letters. But they let me xerox them for my own use.
I did, by the way, get a chance to
compare originals to xeroxes, and
to write in any
parts that didn't appear clearly on the xeroxes, and also to
add on a few
passages that (yes) actually got cut off by the xerox machines.
(The only original was a post card from
Jack to John Montgomery, but
that is one of
the documents that was stolen from my archive.)
I never said scholars didn't sometimes
have to use xeroxes.
SOMETIMES THEY
DO. But they are far inferior to using
originals (many
xeroxers are not
as meticulous as I was). Whenever
possible, a scholar
wants access to
originals.
So it is no excuse for John Sampas to
tell us he has made xeroxes of
everything he has
sold--although I haven't even heard him claim that much.
Certainly, if he
cares about Kerouac scholarship, he would take pains to see
that the
originals are preserved forever in a library.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
P.S. You also better go back to law school, or
perhaps you were cutting
classes the day
they went over property rights. If I pay
for a xerox copy,
that piece of
paper belongs to me, and I can give it away or sell it or burn
it--whatever I
please. I cannot, however, sell
copyright in material I have
xeroxed, and I
made clear to U Mass, Lowell, that they were not acquiring
copyright in ANY
PART OF THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE. If I
tried to sell
copyright in Jack
Kerouac's letters, Mr. Sampas would have sued me a long
time ago.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:48:16 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
>David wrote:
>>Patricia:
I'm lurking again on Beat-L. Must have missed all the recent
>>controversies.
What's happening?
>>
>>David
Ohle
>>
>i'm a
beatspotting...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:09:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
well, for months
at least four guys have been hot talking about the jk
estate, this one
guy, (gerald (who has battered writers syndrome)
believes
that jacks mothers will was forged and
that the late jan k and
jacks
impoverished nepher should share in the estate,
he is also
concerned that
the sampas are selling piecmeal various jk letters. Phil
chaput and ron
anstee are facimile virgins and get down on (name calling
and attacking)
gerry, and jo grant. I have saved all
the posts and
could identify
the threads if they are of interests.
sometimes it is
real interesting
and sometimes i am just glad to be a woman, haha.
by the way, this
response should be enough to get my toes toasted, but
happily they are
asbestos.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:10:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: foucault
Who is foucault,
is he fun to read.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:22:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: john cage-haiku #1
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970521192805.00b64de4@pop.gpnet.it>
must say,
rinaldo, this is so far one of my favoite of your performance
pieces in 2
dimentional space. thanks.
mc
> tah
toh tahh tohh
> at 21:00
> gronk
gronk
> at 21:01
> clock
>
>
>
>JOHN CAGE IS
ALIVE, HE IS TALKING... TO ME!
>
> what is happened to me?
>
> r\ i
> \
> n a\
> \
> l
>\ d
> \
o .
>------------.......-----------
>
>"Todas
las granas de arena del desierto de
>Chihuahua son
vacuidad!" Jack Kerouac the dharma bums
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:33:25 +0000
Reply-To: davo@cjnetworks.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Ohle <davo@CJNETWORKS.COM>
Subject: Re: foucault
Patricia: I think
he's a contemporary French social philosopher. Some
people think he's
fun to read. Of course, it may also be the inventor
of the pendulum.
D.O.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:25:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
In-Reply-To: <33833A5E.65BD@sunflower.com>
you GO girl!
..what she said!
mc
>well, for
months at least four guys have been hot talking about the jk
>estate, this
one guy, (gerald (who has battered writers syndrome)
>believes
that jacks mothers will was forged and
that the late jan k and
>jacks
impoverished nepher should share in the estate,
he is also
>concerned
that the sampas are selling piecmeal various jk letters. Phil
>chaput and
ron anstee are facimile virgins and get down on (name calling
>and
attacking) gerry, and jo grant. I have
saved all the posts and
>could
identify the threads if they are of interests.
sometimes it is
>real
interesting and sometimes i am just glad to be a woman, haha.
>
>by the way,
this response should be enough to get my toes toasted, but
>happily they
are asbestos.
>p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:55:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome of
day
In-Reply-To: <33833A5E.65BD@sunflower.com>
from : The
Scripture of the Golden eternity
1
did i create that
sky? yes, for, if it was
anything other
than a concepton in my mind
i wouldnt have
said 'sky' --that is why i am the
golden eternity.
there are not two of us here,
reader and
writer, but one, one golden eternity,
one-which-it-is,-that-which-everything-is
3
that sky, if it
was anything other than an
illusion of my
mortal mind i wouldnt have said
'that sky,' thus
i made that sky, i am the
golden eternity.
i am mortal golden eternity.
4
i was awakened to
show the way, chosen to
die in the
degradation of life, because i am
mortal golden
eternity.
5
i am the golden
eternity in mortal animate form.
6
strictly
speaking, there is no me, because all is
emptiness. i am
empty, i am non-existent
7
this truth law
has no more reality than the world
8
you are the
golden eternity because there is
no me and no you,
only one golden eternity.
9
the realizer.
entertain no imaginations whatever,
for the thing is
a no-thing. knowing this then
is human godhood.
10
this world is the
movie of what everything is,
it is one movie,
made up of the same stuff
throughout,
belonging to nobody, which is what
everything is.
11
if we wre not all
the golden eternity we
wouldnt be here.
because we are here we
cant help being
pure. to tell man to be pure on
account of the
punishiing angel that punishes the
bad and the
rewarding angel that rewards the good
would be like
telling the water 'be wet' --never
the less, all
things depend on suprene reality,
which is already
established as the record of
karma-earned
fate.
12
god is not
outside us but is just us, the
living and the
dead, the never-lived and
never-died. that
we should learn it only now, is
supreme reality,
it was witten a log time ago
in the archives
of universal mind, it is already
done, there's no
more to do
13
this is the
knowledge that sees the golden
eternity in all
things, which is us, you,
me, and which is
no longer us, you, me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:05:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Where is Gerry Nicosia?
Ron Guest writes:
"Where is Gerry Nicosia? I noticed a couple of beat-ls have baited
him a little, but
no reply. This guy can't be gone."
Dear Ron and
fellow Beat-Ls: May 21,
1997
No "conspiracy" was involved
in my recent disappearance from the
Beat-List. I just returned from four days in Chicago,
attending the 30th
reunion of
Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW).
Most of the talks and workshops had to
do with veterans working for
peace and
healing. It was nice not to be called
greedy or power-mad by
anyone for a few
days.
I expect Mr. Sampas probably feels
under attack much of the time,
just as I
do. Perhaps he feels I wish to prove
that HE is greedy and
power-mad. I would like to believe that he is neither;
that he is a
reasonable man
who wants to do the right thing.
The problem, you say, is that Sampas's
vision of what is right is
different from
Nicosia's. That does not preclude some
form of compromise
vision, however.
Let's look at Mr. Sampas's options:
1) He can continue to refuse to deal
with the Kerouac family (Paul
Blake, Jr.) and
Jan Kerouac's literary executor, myself.
This option, at
least
temporarily, gives him the right to do whatever he wishes with Jack
Kerouac's entire
archive.
Under this option, 5 different results
can occur:
A) He can continue to sell off Jack
Kerouac's papers to
dealers and
collectors, and keep all the money for himself and his family.
However, he runs
the risk of a court injunction, as long as the Florida
lawsuit has not
been dismissed.
B) He can choose to sell Jack
Kerouac's papers to a library,
and keep all the
money for himself and his family. Again,
as long as the
Florida lawsuit
has not been dismissed, he runs the risk of a court
nullifying the
deal and ordering his family to repay all the money.
C) He can wait, hoping that Mr. Nicosia will
be successfully
removed as Jan
Kerouac's literary executor; and that when that happens,
Jan's 2 heirs
will still be willing to complete their deal with him and
dismiss the
Florida lawsuit. Once it is dismissed,
he can proceed to sell
off Jack
Kerouac's papers or put them into a library--as he chooses--without
fear of court
restraint.
D) He waits, but Mr. Nicosia is
not removed. The case in
Florida goes to
trial, and he wins. The end result is
the same as in C)
above. He can now do as he pleases with Jack
Kerouac's papers forever.
E) The result Mr. Sampas would
rather not think about. Mr.
Nicosia is not
dismissed. The case goes to trial in
Florida, and Mr. Sampas
loses.
Gabrielle's will is disqualified. Jan
Kerouac's estate, and the
living Paul
Blake, Jr., come in for at least 2/3 ownership of everything.
The court will
now decide how much or how little right the Sampas family has
to what
remains. The Sampases may be asked to
make restitution for almost
30 years' of
money they have received from Jack Kerouac's estate without an
actual legal
right to more than a third of it (the dower's right).
2) Mr. Sampas chooses to negotiate with
Jan Kerouac's literary
executor, Gerald
Nicosia, and Paul Blake, Jr.
Under option 2, there are 3 possible
results:
A) Mr. Sampas makes clear that
he seeks vindication at law;
that he feels his
family has full right to every dollar earned by Jack
Kerouac's estate,
and they choose, if possible, to keep everything for
themselves. However, MR. SAMPAS AGREES THAT JACK
KEROUAC'S PAPERS SHOULD BE
PRESERVED IN A
LIBRARY AND MADE ACCESSIBLE TO SCHOLARS NOW, since the
scholarly
community has already waited almost 30 years.
Mr. Sampas, Mr. Blake, and Mr.
Nicosia, through their
lawyers, agree on
a library and a price, and the sale of Jack Kerouac's
archive is made
with the approval of the Circuit Court of Pinellas County,
Florida.
The court arranges for all the
money, probably $1-2 million,
to be placed in
escrow, or some form of trust account, which will be
administered by
the court until the Florida case is tried and a final
decision is
reached, or until the suit is eventually dismissed. At the time
of final decision
or dismissal, the money in the trust account will be
disbursed
according to the decree of the court.
B) Mr. Sampas, while continuing
to insist that Gabrielle
Kerouac's will
was not forged, prefers to settle this matter out of court.
He agrees that
Jack Kerouac's papers should be preserved and made accessible
in a library now,
and he is also wiling to concede that Jan Kerouac's heirs
and Gabrielle
Kerouac's only living grandchild, Paul Blake, Jr., should have
some share of the
financial benefits from Jack Kerouac's estate.
Perhaps
less than 1/3, or
perhaps a full 1/3 each, but without the right to claim
restitution for
any of the past 30 years' of earnings which the Sampas
family has
already been paid.
He is also willing to share
some portion of the
decision-making
power concerning where the archive ends up--share that power
with Paul Blake,
Jr., and with Jan Kerouac's lawfully-appointed literary
executor, Gerald
Nicosia. (This would require peace
between Mr. Lash and
Mr. Nicosia, but
since Mr. Lash has been taking his cues from Mr. Sampas,
that should not
be a problem.)
Obviously, there is much room
for negotiation in this scenario.
IMHO, Option 2, either A or B,
holds the brightest future
for all those
with a serious interest in Jack Kerouac's works and in Jack
Kerouac
scholarship. It would mean the entire
Jack Kerouac archive could
become accessible
within a matter of months--and that such accessibility
would be
permanent and not subject to being undone by a court.
There is RESULT C) however:
Negotiations break down, and we
revert to Option
1.
I wish to state here, in public, my
willingness and desire to work
with Mr. Sampas
on making some form of Option 2, A or B, come to fruition.
That is, if Mr.
Sampas is willing to negotiate now, I would do my best to
reach some
agreement with him that would make the Kerouac archive accessible
to the scholarly
community as soon as possible.
I cannot, of course, speak for Paul
Blake, Jr. He is represented by
his own attorney,
Mr. WIlliam Wagner, of Tampa, Florida.
But while Jan was
alive, Paul
signed a document with Jan indicating that he would gladly
negotiate with
Mr. Sampas to get the Jack Kerouac archive into a library and
accessible as
soon as possible, and I have no reason to believe he has
changed his mind
about that.
I am aware that Mr. Sampas may be loath
to negotiate in public,
especially here
on the internet. For that reason, I am
going silent here
for a month--at
least on the subject of the Estate Fight.
I may pipe up
from time to time
about something else, and I will still answer private
email queries at
GNicosia@earthlink.net. I WISH TO ASSURE
MR. SAMPAS,
HOWEVER, THAT IF
HE REQUIRES COMPLETE CONFIDENTIALITY FROM ME DURING
NEGOTIATIONS, HE
SHALL HAVE IT.
Mr. Sampas knows where I am, and he
knows how to reach my attorney.
I hope I may eventually have something
good to report to you all on
this score--or
perhaps I should state more accurately, that WE [since
several people
are involved] will have something good to report.
In the meantime, I would encourage all
of you to follow Jerry
Cimino's
suggestion, and let Mr. Sampas know what you feel is the best
course for him to
take. The ball is now in his court, and
I await his next
move.
We know he scrutinizes the Beat-List
postings about the estate; or
if you prefer to
contact him privately, you can write or fax him care/of his
agent: Sterling
Lord-Literistic, 65 Bleecker St., NY NY 10012.
Fax:
212-780-6095. You may or may not choose to share these
communications with me.
ONE MORE THING, A GENTLE WARNING:
Mr. Chaput claims there is now an 8-page
list of Kerouac pieces in
the New York
Public Library placed there by Mr. Sampas.
(By the way, how
about printing
that list here for us right now, instead of revealing it only
to the buyers of
Maher's magazine?)
Even if Mr. Sampas has sold some new
pieces to the New York Public
Library (I'm
waiting to hear if they are SIGNIFICANT pieces), THERE IS STILL
A MAJOR PROBLEM
WITH THIS METHOD OF PUTTING THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE ON LIBRARY
DEPOSIT.
THE PROBLEM IS THIS:
Once you have removed many significant
pieces from the archive, no
other major
university is going to put up big bucks (read: $1-2 million) to
house what is
left of the archive. I have talked to
the library directors
at Bancroft,
Stanford, and Texas, and they stated very strongly that they
would NOT be
interested AT ALL in acquiring a "gutted archive." This means
that Mr. Sampas,
by doling Kerouac's archive out piece by piece to the New
York Public,
virtually commits himself to that library.
But suppose that in
a year, or
several years, down the line, the New York Public Library gets a
new archive
director who dislikes Kerouac; or, even more likely, the City of
New York runs out
of money to spend on luxuries like literary archives.
If that happens, the NYPL is no longer
in a position to buy the
remainder of the
Jack Kerouac archive, and now no other major library wants
what is
left. There may be thousands of pieces
of paper left, but no major
library is going
to spend the money and time archiving and offering them to
the public, if
they cannot lay claim to keeping a reasonably intact collection.
What happens then? Obviously, John Sampas or his heirs just
auction
off the remainder
to collectors and dealers for whatever they can get for it.
ONCE AGAIN, LET ME STATE: JACK
KEROUAC'S ARCHIVE IS TOO IMPORTANT TO
BE ALLOWED TO
SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS OF TIME AND CHANCE IN THIS MANNER.
Hoa Binh (that's "peace" in
Vietnamese)
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:15:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: of interest to some
In-Reply-To: <v01530500afa5f96e4eea@[204.181.15.86]>
tricycle, the
buddhist review, spring editon
has lots of
wonderful stuff.
issue has big
section, dharma 101: back to basics; well done and of
interest to those
of little or large knowledge both
and a excellent
(in my opin) review of snyder's mts and rivers without end.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:21:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: to the beat Hatfields and Mcoys
In-Reply-To:
<970520120134_-1230690775@emout03.mail.aol.com>
now, i got nuthin
agin feuding, fellers,
but some times
folks just got te take it out to the back- 40
(in cyberspeak,
offlist)
just my opin.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:12:04 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
In-Reply-To:
<970521092959.2df0@louisville.lib.ky.us>
At 09:29 AM
5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Nice people
swallow? I don't get it...
>
>Paul
>????
erm.
Its a
"joke" that has been running around for along time. Due to the
popularity of the
"mean people suck" campaign, there has been variations
such as
"nice people swallow".
It means, *being
sexually explict* swallowing semen when you give head.'
Get it now? ;)
ttfn.
Lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:32:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow...
Swallowing seamen
when they go to the head? I knew there
was a tradition of
cannibalism in the
Navy but I thought it was relatively under control...
Yours
Emily (Whats all
this I hear about endangered feces) Litella
a.k.a.
Paul
!!!!!!!
*******************************************************************************
At 09:29 AM 5/21/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Nice people
swallow? I don't get it...
>
>Paul
>????
erm.
Its a
"joke" that has been running around for along time. Due to the
popularity of the
"mean people suck" campaign, there has been variations
such as
"nice people swallow".
It means, *being
sexually explict* swallowing semen when you give head.'
Get it now? ;)
ttfn.
Lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:48:46 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
Lisa M. Rabey
wrote:
>
> At 09:29 AM
5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Nice
people swallow? I don't get it...
> >
> >Paul
> >????
>
> erm.
> Its a
"joke" that has been running around for along time. Due to the
> popularity
of the "mean people suck" campaign, there has been variations
> such as
"nice people swallow".
> It means,
*being sexually explict* swallowing semen when you give head.'
> Get it now?
;)
>
> ttfn.
> Lisa
> --
>
> Lisa M.
Rabey
> Internet and
Computer Consultant
> San
Francisco, California
>
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>
**************************************
> General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
perhaps a
demonstration would help everyone understand ....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:56:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Gerry N.
-- non-estate matter
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------53A3738B4C8B
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
i hope that the
trip to Chicago was rewarding. i'd
seriously intended
to visit Thomas
Park here and Salina to witness a small celebration in
route to the
larger ones. i thought it would be an
interesting learning
experience. unfortunately, sinus infections and chemical
imbalances
found me passed
out on the couch.
i was wondering
if you knew anything about the below. So
far, nobody
has shared any
information.
--------------53A3738B4C8B
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<33802A81.3819@midusa.net>
Date: Mon, 19 May
1997 05:25:05 -0500
From: RACE ---
<race@midusa.net>
Reply-To:
race@midusa.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla
3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Beat-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Secret
Mullings About Bill
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
i saw reference
yesterday to something like this being a work in
progress of
Kerouac's at some point.
given that i'm a
burroughs' junkie (and seem to becoming a Kerouacian as
well) i'd love to
read Jack's insights into William.
was this ever
published in any form? are there
photocopies in some
vault?
david rhaesa
--------------53A3738B4C8B--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:58:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
In-Reply-To: <3383519E.3E4A@midusa.net>
At 02:48 PM
5/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Lisa M. Rabey
wrote:
>>
>> At 09:29
AM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Nice
people swallow? I don't get it...
>> >
>> >Paul
>> >????
>>
>> erm.
>> Its a
"joke" that has been running around for along time. Due to the
>>
popularity of the "mean people suck" campaign, there has been
variations
>> such as
"nice people swallow".
>> It
means, *being sexually explict* swallowing semen when you give head.'
>> Get it
now? ;)
>>
>> ttfn.
>> Lisa
>> --
>>
>> Lisa M.
Rabey
>> Internet
and Computer Consultant
>> San
Francisco, California
>>
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>>
**************************************
>> General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>
>perhaps a
demonstration would help everyone understand ....
>
Sure! No problem
;)
HOW TO SUCK COCK
- A 14 LESSON TUTORIAL
WITH TECHNIQUES
FROM SOME OF THE EXPERTS.
By: Anonymous
LESSON ONE
I am not sure if
it was because I grew up in a household with
brothers or
whether I would have had the same feelings and
inclinations had
I been an only child but I do know that from the
time of my
earliest memories I have been fascinated with penises.
Let's talk about the "basic
penis." I regard oral sex as the
highest form of
expression of love that can be exchanged between
two people.
Hopefully this information will help you to break down
any barriers
which you might have that would prevent you from
expressing your
love in this way and from receiving a
reciprocation
from your male companion.
First things first. LOOK at the cock. I do not mean a
cursory glance
not a hurried, surreptitious examination. Take
enough time that
you convince your companion that some kind of
treat is in store
for him provided he will allow you to do with
him, and
particularly with his cock, exactly what you want.
Place him flat on his back on your bed,
in a well lighted
room. Take his
cock in your hand and LOOK at it. He probably will
not have the will
power to stay soft, but then again you are
worshipping his
very essence. Few men can stay soft
under these
circumstances,
when it is apparent that the person LOOKING at his
cock is
worshipping.
When you first start to touch him, his
cock will become hard
and be in a state
where your examination will be meaningful.
Wouldn't it be
nice if going to the doctor for an examination was
as enriching?
The cock must be hard if you are to be
able to note the
important
parts-those parts sensitive to stimulation by your lips
and tongue.
The first thing you will note is
whether or not he is
circumcised. Circumcision is not universally practiced:
there are
advantages and
disadvantages to penises in both conditions from
the standpoint of
providing oral caresses that bring the highest
kind of delight
to your man.
Next take a close look at the shaft of
the penis itself.
There is a
bulbous part of the organ near the outer end, slightly
larger in
diameter than the shaft, which is often called the head.
Technically this
is the glans penis (comes from the Latin glans
which means
acorn. Look at it closely; does kind of
look like an
acorn doesn't
it?)
The outside perimeter of the glans
penis is the corona. This
joins the head to
the shaft. This is the most sensitive spot on
the penis. It is
toward this ridge that you will direct most of
your attention
when you are giving head. Follow this
ridge around
to the underside
of the penis. You know that I like to call it the
underbelly. I am
particularly fond of the underbelly!
You will notice a point of juncture
where the two ends of
this irregular
circle come together. If your partner is not
circumcised, this
will also be the point where the foreskin is
attached. This tiny area is easily the most sensitive
spot on his
entire body, and
it is possible to bring your partner to climax
simply by gently
tapping the tip of your tongue directly on it.
Spend time
caressing the glans and those areas immediately
surrounding it.
Beneath the glans is the shaft of the
penis. The shaft does
not have many
nerve endings and does not, therefore, provide a man
with any high
degree of stimulation when caressed either manually
or with your
tongue to the exclusion of the glans penis itself.
It always amazes
me to note the number of confirmed cocksuckers
who believe that
sucking up and down on the shaft will get the guy
off. That's not
it folks! If it works it is because the back of
your throat is
playing tricks on his glans penis. Your throat is
giving head to
his head!
Beneath the shaft are the testicles
(balls, jewels, call
them what you
like, but let's not ignore their significance). The
testicles are
extremely sensitive to pain and are not usually
considered
subject to erotic stimulation to any particular degree.
Not true! You can add a high degree of pleasure for him
by paying
the right kind of
attention to the balls!
Now lets go back to the shaft of the
matter. The opening in
the tip of the
glans penis is the meatus. Here is where
the cum
spurts. (I could
have said semen is ejaculated but I did not want
to sound too
professional).
There are other parts of a man's body
which respond with
alacrity to oral
stimulation.
Many men are particularly sensitive around
the nipples. The
first time I
kissed my partner's nipples he shot before I had the
chance to even
get near his cock. While I have not been able to
duplicate this in
the laboratory setting (he hates to go near the
lab with me) my
partner still gets extremely turned on by my
lingual nipple
caresses.
So LOOK at your partner's penis. Study
it. Learn its areas
of special
sensitivity completely and be ready to apply your
knowledge to his
body with your tongue and with your lips when you
bend your loving
head over his cock. There is nothing that you can
do which more
clearly shows your love for him than the worship you
can provide his
cock!
LESSON TWO
The sad fact is that most people, men
and women, do not have
the slightest
idea of how to suck cock. Most seem to think that
simply by making
a cunt of their mouth, closing it around a man's
penis, and
bobbing their heads lustily up and down until he
climaxes
automatically makes them expert cocksuckers.
Au
contraire!
Consummate skill is required to suck a
man's cock and
provide him with
the highest degree of pleasure possible.
When I
first started my
quest I really had no one to turn to for advice
and counsel. It
was all hunt and suck. Hunt and suck.
Find that
one technique
that could and would set him on fire! I
had to
learn from my
experiences and while I would not want to deny you
the innate
pleasure that these experiences will bring I would hate
to see you lose a
great companion because of your inexperience and
lack of
expertise.
Let's assume that you have taken that
opportunity to LOOK at
his penis. To explore each area of the penis to find the
most
sensitive parts.
That you have gotten beyond "Parts is parts" and
recognize that
some parts are more equal than others.
In order for you to observe your man's
reactions and get the
most information
possible about his responses try the following:
While his erect penis points toward the
ceiling, cup his
balls in one hand
and gently, using only your tongue, lick softly,
but carefully
along the entire underside of his erect organ.
As
you suck along
the underbelly you will learn those areas that give
him the greatest
pleasure when your tongue is touching them.
Unless he is made
of stone, your partner will provide you with
vivid clues as to
which areas are most pleasurable.
As you discover these areas of enhanced
pleasure concentrate
on them. For most
men the most sensitive area will be the point
where the ring
(or corona) of the head and the foreskin are
attached. Or were
attached prior to his circumcision. By
continued licking
and tapping along this area with your tongue you
are going to
bring forth a geyser. If you are not skilled and you
want to please
him in a hurry I suggest that you get him off in
this manner in
order to become familiar at first hand with the
nature and
delight of his climax.
As he is getting ready for climax you
will note changes in
his penis. These
signs will be the same every time he climaxes so
that you can
prepare for his cum properly. The head of the cock
may swell
somewhat larger then it is during the normal course of
his
erection. He may thrust his hips forward
as he wants to send
his
body hurtling out
his cock with his cum. And for most men,
immediately prior
to the cum, there will appear at the tiny,
lovely lips at
the tip of the cock a clear drop or two of fluid.
When you see this
or feel the opening at the meatus through his
condom you know
that the moment of truth is at hand. Launch the
torpedoes, full
cum ahead!
Where should you be when you are
sucking his cock? Between
his legs, on top
of him, in a sixty nine position? Where?
Because of the
structure of his penis, as well as the structure of
your mouth, lips,
tongue, and teeth, you can provide the highest
degree of
sensation to yourself and your partner by kneeling
between his legs
and approaching his cock from the bottom rather
than from the
side or the top. Don't believe me? Try the various
positions (I
describe in later chapters techniques to be used with
each position).
See what works best for you and your partner.
LESSON THREE
Place his stiff cock inside your mouth
but do not tighten
your lips around
the shaft. With your head begin a circle motion.
The cock will
slide to different places in your mouth as you
continue the
circle motion. Watch your teeth on this
one. A
kneeling position
will suffice but it is also effective when your
partner is on his
back and your head is directly over his cock.
The circle should
be executed in both clockwise and
counterclockwise
motions in a slow purposeful manner. I found many
guys in New York
who seem to prefer this technique above all
others. I met one
guy who could circle a cock for hours and I
found myself
having multiple orgasms while his mouth circled my
cock. I didn't
lose my hard-on after each cum. When the
technique
is performed
correctly it means many hours of unadulterated
pleasure.
LESSON FOUR
With your man sitting in an elevated
position and you on
your knees in
front of him lift his hard cock to reveal his balls.
With your tongue
find the underside of his balls. Now,
while
resting his balls
on your wet tongue, lick in an upward motion to
the very tip of
his cock. It is permissible to use your
hands in
this
technique. It is bettor to do this
technique several times
in
succession-like licking a lollipop or ice cream cone. I grew up
down south. And
one thing about southern boys, we learn early how
to get if off
quickly when the need is there. And the lollipop
lick is the one
technique in this book which few men can tolerate
for long periods
of time without cumming.
LESSON FIVE
Right now lets discuss a technique
that is probably the
most common
cocksucking technique in the world. Take
his cock in
your mouth but
not deeply. We will get to
deep-throating later
on. It's great, not over-rated, but if you want
to be an expert
at deep throat
start with the right techniques and work your way
down, so to
speak.
Take his cock in your mouth by sliding
your moistened tongue
lovingly over the
head until your lips close around the shaft at
the point just
behind the corona. Don't just open your
mouth and
close it around
his cock. Slide it in. He will enjoy it much more.
Encase the shaft of his penis with your
hand. Remember the
shaft is
relatively insensitive to any kind of stimulation. By
enclosing his
penis with your hand you give him the sensation of
having his penis
encased.
Now you have several options. Try twisting your head from
side to side
making sure your moist lips stay in contact with the
coronal
ridge. While doing this gently move your
hand up and down
the shaft. When he climaxes he may want to push your
head further
down the shaft of
his penis. He wants to envelop you with his
cock. As you are
learning his climax you will miss the fine points
if you deep
throat at this time. Instead gently suck
around the
corona as he
climaxes so that you can intensify his pleasure and
increase the
force of his orgasm.
As you gain more experience you will be
able to tell exactly
when his climax
is approaching and you will be ready for that
initial spurt out
the rubber.
LESSON SIX
There is one further refinement to this
basic technique
which will
heighten his orgasm. If you place your thumb at the
very base of the
penis in such a way as to block the tube through
which the cum
spurts, the semen cannot escape even though he is
spasming and
going through the reflex action of ejaculating semen.
If at the same time you suck vigorously
on the head of his
cock you can
delay his cum for several long moments. When you
finally allow the
cum to spurt it will last much longer and be
just as intense
as a result. Even though you delay the
cum for
only a few short
moments you will be surprised by the intensity of
his cum.
These techniques are the basis of
cocksucking. Do not go
beyond them until
you have become an expert, not only in the
techniques
themselves, but also in the reading and interpreting of
your partner's
responses to such a point that you know exactly how
he is getting off
on what you are doing. When you have
reached
this point, you
are ready for the more subtle, more advanced
techniques.
Don't be so slavish that you miss out
on the fun of self
discovery. Find
out what works for you and for your partner and
make your
cocksucking as individual as your signature.
After all,
you want your man
to pick you out in the dark among hundred
slobbering
cocksuckers.
LESSON SEVEN
One of the first things you encountered
when you first
started to suck
cock was a gag reflex. Most men seem to want
to
force their cocks
down your throat as far as they can get it.
Particularly at
the moment when they cum!
Consider for a moment that the average
length of your oral
cavity is three
to three and a half inches while the average
Caucasian cock
length is five to five and a half inches. The laws
of nature would
seem to dictate that getting all that cock into
your mouth is an
impossibility.
It can be done. You probably know
someone who can do it and
that is why you
purchased this book to begin with. It is possible
to master the
necessary technique. I don't want to be
boring, but
if you understand
your anatomy you will begin to understand the
requirements that
allow you to take his hard cock into your mouth
and down your
throat. The biggest obstacle to taking
all of his
cock down your
throat is the fact that there is a bend of almost
ninety degrees
behind your tongue leading down into your throat.
So the first
thing to do is get the cock past that angle.
Get past the
angle of the dangle!
In order to practice this, get in a
position where you can
turn your head in
such a way that your mouth and throat lie almost
in a straight
line. The best position to accomplish this is to lie
on a bed so that
your head is near the edge with your body
sprawled across
the bed so that your head is tipped sharply back.
This position
will put your mouth and throat nearly in a line and
will allow your
partner to approach you in such a way that
insertion of his
cock can be made so deeply that his pubic hair
presses against
your lips.
LESSON EIGHT
Today we will practice mastering
physical reaction that must
be alleviated
before the art of deep penetration can fully be
enjoyed. The
natural tendency of the body to gag when a foreign
object such as a
deeply thrusting cock being forced down your
throat. You can overcome this tendency by completely
relaxing
your throat at
moment the insertion is made. It is equally
important that
you maintain this relaxation during the entire deep
throating.
Let him put his cock down your throat
and hold it still
while you find
the most comfortable way to proceed.
Because of
your position you
will not be able to move or to offer him any
greater
stimulation than simply keeping your mouth tightly closed
around his
throbbing cock. If you are able try to
stimulate his
underbelly with
your tongue, do it!
You will only be able to relax and take
his cock in this way
if you completely
thrust your partner. Your partner is in
full
control. He must initiate and maintain all the
motion. This is
the only exercise
in which you relinquish your control of the
situation to your
partner. He will relish this for the simple fact
that for the
first time he can insert his cock as deeply down your
throat as he
wants to. Now your partner begins an in
and out
movement that is
just like fucking. He should start
slowly,
especially if
this is a completely
new experience
for the two of you. After all if he
hurts you he
cuts himself off
from one of the great pleasures in life.
His
only other
requirement during this exercise is to keep the motion
in the same
direction throughout this oral exercise as there is
simply no leeway
for him to vary the motion from side to side.
One other word of
caution.
Don't let your partner get carried away
at the moment he
starts to
cum. At that spectacular moment he will
be able for the
first time to
thrust his cock all the way inside your oral cavity
and that is the
most important lesson of this exercise!
His only
other requirement
during the exercise is to keep the motion in the
same against your
lips as he cums. Because of your
position in
bed you will not
be faced with the problem of swallowing his cum.
And this is not
just because he has a condom on his dick.
The
reason is because
he has gotten his cock BEYOND your gag reflex!
Without the
rubber his cum would shoot directly into your stomach!
If both you and
your partner understand what it is that you are
trying to do as
well as the possible problems that may "cum" up
along the way no
harm or discomfort will happen to either of you.
It is possible that not everyone will
learn the "deep
throat"
technique but this inability does not make you any less a
cocksucker. You must allow your throat to relax
completely while
your partner is
thrusting his cock this deeply down your throat.
To do this long
enough for your partner to completely get it off
is very difficult
and may require practice beyond this day.
It
may be that you
will be able to take your partner completely down
your throat, but
you will not be able to maintain proper
relaxation of
your throat to until he shoots his load.
Hopefully
your partner will
understand that this is not a rejection of him
or of what he is
offering you, and it is my sincere desire that
you not stop here
and think that you will never master the "deep
throat"
technique.
Continue to practice this lesson. I
know couples who have
devoted ten
months to this lesson alone. Continue to
practice
this technique
because your practice will allow you to take his
cock deeper into
your throat each time and for longer periods of
time. Ultimately you will succeed. If you have the desire you
will get this one
down pat!
LESSON NINE
Now lets turn to another portion of
your partner's anatomy
which should not
be ignored-the family jewels. Here are two
objects which can
enhance your partner's feelings more than any
other. Many people do not think of the balls as
primary sexual
objects. Many men
are extremely sensitive and just as in lesson
eight there must
be a certain amount of trust built up between the
two of you before
he will willingly let you have undisputed use of
these two pearls
of delight!
For today's lesson begin by gently
licking his balls with
your tongue. As
your partner becomes more trusting you may begin
to play with his
nipples with your fingers gradually increasing or
decreasing the
intensity as you gauge how he is responding.
You
may want to
gently caress his cock with your hand while you are
bathing his balls
with your tongue.
Remember that the balls are extremely
sensitive to pain and
he will lose his
trust in you if you do not respect any limits he
places on them
just as you have the right to place limits on the
back of your
throat until you are completely ready to receive him.
It is possible once you have built up
this trust to take
both his balls in
your mouth. He will be more receptive to this if
you thoroughly
wet them with your tongue prior to taking them into
your mouth. Unless your partner is into the new fad of
complete
body shaving he
will have tiny hairs on his testicles. By giving
the balls a
complete tongue bath prior to taking them into your
mouth, you will
have pressed these hairs down along the surface of
the sac and will
not inadvertently cause pain by pulling on them.
This may seem a small lesson but you
will discover an
entirely new
world of sensations for your partner when you take
the time to get
to know his testicles!
LESSON TEN
I hesitated to include this into your
lesson plan but
finally I decided
that if you are aware of the safest way to do
this technique
that my responsibility for giving you the tools to
be the best
cocksucker you can be will be satisfied.
Analingus.
Putting your
tongue to his anal opening.
Ass sucking.
Before you even consider doing this,
make certain that your
partner is clean.
Immediately out of the shower. Place a
piece of
Saran wrap over
the butt. At no time should your tongue
come into
contact with the
anal surface itself.
For this lesson place your partner on
his back with his legs
in the air and
his knees close to his shoulders. This
spreads his
buttocks apart
and allows you access to his butthole.
You are probably under the impression
that actual
penetration of
the asshole itself is necessary for your partner to
receive the most
complete enjoyment of this technique.
Not so
mojo! The nerve endings around the anus itself have
no
discrimination
and you will get him off just as well and as
thoroughly by
licking around the area as if you stick your tongue
up his butt!
As with some of your other lessons this
technique will not
usually be enough
to get him to cum, but I feel that it is
important to know
all aspects of your partner's body in order to
give him the most
complete pleasure you can. You may find
that
after many hours
of oral pleasure you need to have other areas to
concentrate on in
order to give him the satisfaction he deserves.
Analingus is a powerful stimulant and
when combined with
other activities
such as vigorous hand stimulation on his cock
will cause a
rapid and powerful cum!
LESSON ELEVEN
For most of our lessons the only thing
required is yourself,
your partner, and
a condom. Maybe some Saran wrap. A plastic glove
or two. Well, another toy that will enhance your
pleasure is a
mini-
vibrator. For this lesson you may want to start with
your finger.
Then as you and
your partner become more accustomed to each other
you may find him
a little intrigued about the vibrator and what it
can do for him.
As you are giving head begin a slow
playful search around
his
ass. Many men are particularly sensitive in this
area and it will
enhance the
sensations that your mouth and tongue and throat are
giving his cock
to feel a finger playing with his butt.
As your
partner relaxes
and allows you access, gently insert your gloved
finger into his
butt. Go slowly exploring the velvety
sensations
along the sides
of his opening.
When your finger is inside his asshole
completely you will
be at the area of
the prostate gland. Massage of this
gland by
your finger will
produce some of the most delightful sensations
your partner has
yet to experience. I remember going to
the
doctor for a
physical the first time I felt this sensation. I
could hardly wait
to get home and have my partner try it out on me
again. While it was a bit embarrassing to cum in the
doctor's
office, the
feelings that the doctor inadvertently produced were
so strong that I
wanted to experience them again and again!
A gloved finger is really all that is
required for this
lesson. However
some members of the Cocksuckers Club of America
report to me that
a mini-vibrator works exceptionally well for
this type of
stimulus. It is just the same length as the average
finger and due to
the vibrations that it produces the sensations
against the
prostate gland are even more enhanced!
If your partner likes this stimulation
you must then
discover which
method he likes best. Some men prefer an in an out
movement with the
finger or the vibrator while others do not. I
personally find
this painful--too much like a stab in the dark.
I
prefer the finger
or vibrator to be placed against the prostate
gland and left
there to do its most. Whichever method your partner
prefers is the
one you should use.
One other point. When your partner cums
there will be a
natural tendency
for him to push the finger or vibrator out of his
asshole. The asshole muscles are spasming and anything
in the way
will be forced
out. But to maximize his pleasure you
must not let
this happen. Hold
your finger or the vibrator firmly in place--
this will help to
stimulate the sperm production to its maximum.
Many people have questioned me about a
vibrator around the
cock itself. Does it add to the sensation or not?
It does for my partner, it does not for
me. That seems to be
the consensus of
opinion of other readers of FRENCH CUISINE
MAGAZINE as well.
I suggest as long as you have the vibrator handy
anyway, try it
around the penis. When you are licking
his balls.
When you are licking
his asshole. If he gets off on it, then
feel
free to use the
vibrator around his dick and balls. If
he hates
the sensation
obviously don't try it again.
LESSON TWELVE
There are times when you will want to
get him off in a
hurry! I always say that Southern boys learn this
one first and
then expand their
repertory from that point. But because I want
you to become an
expert at all aspects of oral lovemaking I
deliberately
waited until now to introduce this technique.
It
differs from
lesson four in that you are a more consummate
cocksucker
now. He will love it all the more if he
realizes that
this is not the
only trick you have down your mouth!
It is a very simple technique and if
you understand your
partner's basic cock
anatomy you will grasp this one easily.
Place your lips
around the head of your partner's cock and twirl
your lips wetly
and gently around the coronal ridge at the back of
the head of his
penis. This does not require any great
cocksucking skill
and it works simply because this is the area
that is most
sensitive on your partner's cock.
It is not necessary to be a skillful
cocksucker. All that
is necessary is
for you to find the most sensitive area around the
coronal
area. By sucking on this area of his
cock continuously
you will produce
a quick powerful cum. It is not
necessary to bob
your head up and
down on his cock to get him off. One
other use
of this technique
is to get him hard again after he cums and you
will soon find
him rip roaring to go
again.
LESSON THIRTEEN
Don't be surprised if you find yourself
going back to this
lesson for
seconds. We discussed briefly at the end
of lesson 12
a technique to
get him going again if he has recently cum.
Today
after you have
gotten your man off, let's concentrate on some
techniques to get
him back on again. Not just to get him
hard but
to keep him
hard. Hard enough to want to cum again!
After he has cum you may need other
techniques to keep him
hard and to keep
him interested. Many men (not all but a
good
portion of us)
are exhausted by a single cum and while it is
possible to get
your partner up again you have a long way to go
before you get
him to cum again.
Cocksucking alone at this time is
usually not enough to get
him off. You will need to combine some of the
techniques you have
learned earlier
with your basic cocksucking technique to stimulate
the juices for a
second and third go around. Don't hesitate in
your exploration
of his body at this time. His nipples, his balls,
his asshole. His armpits.
His earlobes.
For the second cum you are free to
really get into his body
and explore all
those erotic areas that you missed when you were
concentrating on
his cock exclusively. His navel. His toes.
One of the things I find most exciting
about the second cum
is the lack of
expectation that you must get him to climax within
a certain time
frame. You have all the time in the
world to
really give his
total body a complete tongue bath. You
can
explore his body
safely and completely and really get to know the
total body as
well as you know his delightful dick!
This is
merely a sign
that you are becoming a true connoisseur of
cockflesh. A title I am proud to hold.
LESSON FOURTEEN
Soixante-Neuf
Sixty Nine
Sixty nine is not always the perfect
way to provide your
partner oral
satisfaction. Inadvertently one of you will "let up"
your end of the
cocksucking in order to experience the subtle
pleasures the
other partner is giving you. For this
reason I have
included it as
the final lesson. Many people think that the deep
throat technique
is the ultimate pleasure you can give your
partner. Actually
I believe that sixty-nine is the ultimate
pleasure.
Done correctly and unselfishly when
both of you are
completely in
tune with each others innermost desires, the sixty
nine is the
ultimate. But because of the problem mentioned earlier
in this lesson,
most people practice it too early and it becomes
an intensely
satisfying experience for one partner at the expense
of the
other. When you are completely on each
other's wavelength
you will discover
that this is the most effective way of giving as
well as receiving
pleasure.
The element that must be in place is
simple: Both of you
must
be consummate
cocksuckers! If you have a partner who
is not in
the least
interested in giving head and only likes to receive it
then to attempt
sixty-nine is to ask for unhappiness in your
relationship.
TECHNIQUES
As editor of FRENCH CUISINE MAGAZINE I
sometimes send out
questionnaires to
our members to find out more. I question
them
about their
desires, and their favorite ways to practice safe and
sane oral sex
Here are some of the most popular
variations on cocksucking.
THE BUTTERFLY FLUTTER
The best position for this very
sensuous cocksucking
movement is
kneeling over your partner. If he is on his back kneel
between his legs.
Or kneel in front of your partner while he
stands. I like
this position because the cock feels thicker in
your mouth and
throat and you have complete freedom to play with
his balls while
performing this maneuver.
This technique was first introduced to
me by a cocksucker in
northern
California. There was a notorious movie theater in
downtown San
Francisco with a darkened balcony. A
cocksucker's
haven. And this
guy had us lined up. You knew from the
moans
emanating from
the guy's throat who was getting his cock sucked
that this guy was
that one in a thousand who knew how to please a
variety of fresh
cockmeat. It felt so good that I studied
him
closely while he
was sucking cock. Not only did I observe the guys
who were getting
the radical suck, but I got down close to the
cock and observed
how he was maneuvering around it. He created the
basic vacuum
pressure on the cock but only enough pressure to pull
the cock into his
mouth ever so slightly.
With his lips firmly wrapped around the
guy's big swollen
cock head and
shaft he would gently flick the tip of the cock with
his tongue. With his lips open around the cock at a depth
so that
he could touch
the tip of the cock with the tip of his tongue.
With his lips
around the cock shaft he would make an up and down
movement with his
tongue. He would flutter his tongue up and down
the tip of the
cock.
I recommend you try it. It will drive
your Butterfly Flutter
partner back into
your mouth at any hour you want him there. After
several minutes
of this continue with the basic vacuum suck.
THE TRAVELING FIGURE EIGHT
After you have become comfortable with
the basic vacuum suck
and you have
become accustomed to his cock deep in your mouth and
throat, try this
action. It is guaranteed to take his
breath away. With your lips firmly wrapped around the cock
shaft
try very slowly
to reach the base of the shaft or as close to it
as you are
comfortable. Your nose should be buried
in or at least
touching the
pubic hairs at the base of the cock.
With your nose trace a figure eight as
if the figure eight
were lying on its
side. Your figure eight motion should be
three
to four inches
long. Slowly travel up the shaft of the
cock to
the head, doing
the figure eight motion. Keep doing this motion
and let your lips
firmly travel up and down the cock shaft.
Do
this for as long
as you are comfortable with it. Believe me your
man is floating
in orbit as his wildest dreams of the ultimate
blowjob are
coming true.
I
give credit for this most erogenous technique to a member
of "The
Cocksuckers Club of America" who lives in Oregon. He and
his partner were
on vacation down in Southern California and they
visited me while
here. After seeing him scrape his partner off the
ceiling when he
did the Traveling Figure Eight, I rushed right
into my bedroom
and perfected it on my own partner! When
you get
tired of the
movement slow down and return to the basic vacuum
suck.
By this time you are becoming more and
more confident with
your partner. His
cock feels great as it fills your mouth and
throat. The cock is becoming harder and warmer as
your warm moist
mouth and throat
create friction by going up and down that big
beautiful cock.
It is time to cool his tool just a little with
this technique.
I take full credit for this one myself!
From the time I hit
puberty I was
fascinated by cocks. Big ones, little ones, cut
ones, uncut ones,
crooked ones, straight ones. All shapes, all
sizes. I wanted
to feel them down my throat! Combine
this very
basic love of
cocksucking with an inherent fear of not being able
to take cock and
completely satisfy the customer and you can
imagine how I
felt. I needed a technique that would feel good in
my mouth and
would feel good for my partner. Here's what I came up
with:
Go down on the cock shaft as far as you
are comfortable. All
the while your
lips should be firmly wrapped around the shaft.
Open your mouth
as wide as you can and suck in as much air as your
lungs will hold.
While sucking in air let your open mouth travel
up to the cock
head. Your up stroke motion should end
at the head
of his cock just
as your lungs fill with air. Now with your mouth
still open let
the air in your lungs out slowly through your mouth
as your opened
mouth travels back down the cock shaft. This
technique cools
the cock on the up stroke and warms the cock with
your hot breath
on the down stroke. Do this movement as long as
you like then
return to the basic vacuum suck method.
CONGRATULATIONS!
You are doing
just fine and he loves it!
Keep it up as
long as you are comfortable with it.
For his added pleasure and to give you
something to play
with reach up and
fondle his balls. Or go up even further
and
play with his
nipples. This will give him something else to
concentrated on
so he doesn't pop his cock yet. If you
feel he is
about to cum stop
what you are doing and let him cool off for a
few minutes. After all you are having fun and you want to
enjoy
his cock as much
as you can until you get tired of it.
Then let
him pop his
cock! But not yet. He likes it too much and he wants
it to last as
long as you can keep it going.
THE CIRCLE
Place his stiff cock inside your mouth
but do not tighten
your lips around
the shaft. With your head begin a circle motion.
The cock will
slide to different places in your mouth as you
continue the
circle motion. Watch your teeth on this one.
A kneeling position will suffice but it
is also effective
when your partner
is on his back and your head is directly over
his cock. The
circle should be executed in both clockwise and
counterclockwise
motions in a slow purposeful manner.
THE LOLLIPOP LICK
With your man sitting in an elevated position
and you on
your knees in
front lift his hard cock to reveal his balls. With
your tongue, find
the underside of his balls. Now, while resting
his balls on your
wet tongue, lick in an upward motion to the very
tip of his cock.
It is permissible to use your hands in this
technique. It is
better to do this technique several times in
succession-like
licking a lollipop or ice cream cone.
There you go!
Enjoy! ;)
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and Computer
Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:08:42 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: foucault
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> Who is
foucault, is he fun to read.
> p
he's french. was
french. had a bowl of pot near him to
help in his
writing. some think he is hard to read. some think he easy to read.
they are both
liars. he is very different to
read. his history of
sexuality is
interesting in digging through the history of sexual
discourse. madness and civilization was nice for me
given that it was a
similar treatment
concerning notions of insanity and the like.
my favorite is a
small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
david rhaesa
salina kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:10:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
Lisa,
you are a
treasure.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:28:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
So does anyone
have suggestions or best methods for cleaning off my
computer screen
now?
david rhaesa
Lisa M. Rabey
wrote:
>
> At 02:48 PM
5/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >Lisa M.
Rabey wrote:
> >>
> >> At
09:29 AM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>
>Nice people swallow? I don't get
it...
> >>
>
> >>
>Paul
> >>
>????
> >>
> >>
erm.
> >> Its
a "joke" that has been running around for along time. Due to the
> >>
popularity of the "mean people suck" campaign, there has been
variations
> >>
such as "nice people swallow".
> >> It
means, *being sexually explict* swallowing semen when you give head.'
> >> Get
it now? ;)
> >>
> >>
ttfn.
> >>
Lisa
> >> --
> >>
> >>
Lisa M. Rabey
> >>
Internet and Computer Consultant
> >> San
Francisco, California
> >>
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
> >>
**************************************
> >>
General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
> >
> >perhaps
a demonstration would help everyone understand ....
> >
>
> Sure! No
problem ;)
>
> HOW TO SUCK
COCK - A 14 LESSON TUTORIAL
> WITH
TECHNIQUES FROM SOME OF THE EXPERTS.
>
> By:
Anonymous
>
> LESSON ONE
>
> I am not
sure if it was because I grew up in a household with
> brothers or
whether I would have had the same feelings and
> inclinations
had I been an only child but I do know that from the
> time of my
earliest memories I have been fascinated with penises.
> Let's talk about the "basic
penis." I regard oral sex as the
> highest form
of expression of love that can be exchanged between
> two people.
Hopefully this information will help you to break down
> any barriers
which you might have that would prevent you from
> expressing
your love in this way and from receiving a
>
reciprocation from your male companion.
> First things first. LOOK at the cock. I do not mean a
> cursory
glance not a hurried, surreptitious examination. Take
> enough time
that you convince your companion that some kind of
> treat is in
store for him provided he will allow you to do with
> him, and
particularly with his cock, exactly what you want.
> Place him flat on his back on your
bed, in a well lighted
> room. Take
his cock in your hand and LOOK at it. He probably will
> not have the
will power to stay soft, but then again you are
> worshipping
his very essence. Few men can stay soft
under these
>
circumstances, when it is apparent that the person LOOKING at his
> cock is
worshipping.
> When you first start to touch him, his
cock will become hard
> and be in a
state where your examination will be meaningful.
> Wouldn't it
be nice if going to the doctor for an examination was
> as
enriching?
> The cock must be hard if you are to be
able to note the
> important
parts-those parts sensitive to stimulation by your lips
> and tongue.
> The first thing you will note is
whether or not he is
>
circumcised. Circumcision is not
universally practiced: there are
> advantages
and disadvantages to penises in both conditions from
> the
standpoint of providing oral caresses that bring the highest
> kind of
delight to your man.
> Next take a close look at the shaft of
the penis itself.
> There is a
bulbous part of the organ near the outer end, slightly
> larger in
diameter than the shaft, which is often called the head.
> Technically
this is the glans penis (comes from the Latin glans
> which means
acorn. Look at it closely; does kind of
look like an
> acorn
doesn't it?)
> The outside perimeter of the glans penis is
the corona. This
> joins the
head to the shaft. This is the most sensitive spot on
> the penis.
It is toward this ridge that you will direct most of
> your
attention when you are giving head.
Follow this ridge around
> to the
underside of the penis. You know that I like to call it the
> underbelly.
I am particularly fond of the underbelly!
> You will notice a point of juncture
where the two ends of
> this
irregular circle come together. If your partner is not
> circumcised,
this will also be the point where the foreskin is
>
attached. This tiny area is easily the
most sensitive spot on his
> entire body,
and it is possible to bring your partner to climax
> simply by
gently tapping the tip of your tongue directly on it.
> Spend time
caressing the glans and those areas immediately
> surrounding
it.
> Beneath the glans is the shaft of the
penis. The shaft does
> not have
many nerve endings and does not, therefore, provide a man
> with any
high degree of stimulation when caressed either manually
> or with your
tongue to the exclusion of the glans penis itself.
> It always
amazes me to note the number of confirmed cocksuckers
> who believe
that sucking up and down on the shaft will get the guy
> off. That's
not it folks! If it works it is because the back of
> your throat
is playing tricks on his glans penis. Your throat is
> giving head
to his head!
> Beneath the shaft are the testicles
(balls, jewels, call
> them what
you like, but let's not ignore their significance). The
> testicles
are extremely sensitive to pain and are not usually
> considered
subject to erotic stimulation to any particular degree.
> Not
true! You can add a high degree of
pleasure for him by paying
> the right
kind of attention to the balls!
> Now lets go back to the shaft of the
matter. The opening in
> the tip of
the glans penis is the meatus. Here is
where the cum
> spurts. (I
could have said semen is ejaculated but I did not want
> to sound too
professional).
> There are other parts of a man's body
which respond with
> alacrity to
oral stimulation.
> Many men are particularly sensitive
around the nipples. The
> first time I
kissed my partner's nipples he shot before I had the
> chance to
even get near his cock. While I have not been able to
> duplicate
this in the laboratory setting (he hates to go near the
> lab with me)
my partner still gets extremely turned on by my
> lingual
nipple caresses.
> So LOOK at your partner's penis. Study it.
Learn its areas
> of special
sensitivity completely and be ready to apply your
> knowledge to
his body with your tongue and with your lips when you
> bend your
loving head over his cock. There is nothing that you can
> do which
more clearly shows your love for him than the worship you
> can provide
his cock!
>
> LESSON TWO
>
> The sad fact is that most people, men
and women, do not have
> the
slightest idea of how to suck cock. Most seem to think that
> simply by
making a cunt of their mouth, closing it around a man's
> penis, and
bobbing their heads lustily up and down until he
> climaxes
automatically makes them expert cocksuckers.
Au
> contraire!
> Consummate skill is required to suck a
man's cock and
> provide him
with the highest degree of pleasure possible.
When I
> first
started my quest I really had no one to turn to for advice
> and counsel.
It was all hunt and suck. Hunt and suck.
Find that
> one
technique that could and would set him on fire!
I had to
> learn from
my experiences and while I would not want to deny you
> the innate
pleasure that these experiences will bring I would hate
> to see you
lose a great companion because of your inexperience and
> lack of expertise.
> Let's assume that you have taken that
opportunity to LOOK at
> his
penis. To explore each area of the penis
to find the most
> sensitive
parts. That you have gotten beyond "Parts is parts" and
> recognize
that some parts are more equal than others.
> In order for you to observe your man's
reactions and get the
> most
information possible about his responses try the following:
> While his erect penis points toward
the ceiling, cup his
> balls in one
hand and gently, using only your tongue, lick softly,
> but
carefully along the entire underside of his erect organ. As
> you suck
along the underbelly you will learn those areas that give
> him the
greatest pleasure when your tongue is touching them.
> Unless he is
made of stone, your partner will provide you with
> vivid clues
as to which areas are most pleasurable.
> As you discover these areas of
enhanced pleasure concentrate
> on them. For
most men the most sensitive area will be the point
> where the
ring (or corona) of the head and the foreskin are
> attached. Or
were attached prior to his circumcision.
By
> continued
licking and tapping along this area with your tongue you
> are going to
bring forth a geyser. If you are not skilled and you
> want to
please him in a hurry I suggest that you get him off in
> this manner
in order to become familiar at first hand with the
> nature and
delight of his climax.
> As he is getting ready for climax you
will note changes in
> his penis.
These signs will be the same every time he climaxes so
> that you can
prepare for his cum properly. The head of the cock
> may swell
somewhat larger then it is during the normal course of
> his
erection. He may thrust his hips forward
as he wants to send
> his
> body
hurtling out his cock with his cum. And for most men,
> immediately
prior to the cum, there will appear at the tiny,
> lovely lips
at the tip of the cock a clear drop or two of fluid.
> When you see
this or feel the opening at the meatus through his
> condom you
know that the moment of truth is at hand. Launch the
> torpedoes,
full cum ahead!
> Where should you be when you are
sucking his cock? Between
> his legs, on
top of him, in a sixty nine position?
Where?
> Because of the
structure of his penis, as well as the structure of
> your mouth,
lips, tongue, and teeth, you can provide the highest
> degree of
sensation to yourself and your partner by kneeling
> between his
legs and approaching his cock from the bottom rather
> than from
the side or the top. Don't believe me? Try the various
> positions (I
describe in later chapters techniques to be used with
> each
position). See what works best for you and your partner.
>
> LESSON THREE
>
> Place his stiff cock inside your mouth
but do not tighten
> your lips
around the shaft. With your head begin a circle motion.
> The cock
will slide to different places in your mouth as you
> continue the
circle motion. Watch your teeth on this
one. A
> kneeling
position will suffice but it is also effective when your
> partner is
on his back and your head is directly over his cock.
> The circle
should be executed in both clockwise and
>
counterclockwise motions in a slow purposeful manner. I found many
> guys in New
York who seem to prefer this technique above all
> others. I
met one guy who could circle a cock for hours and I
> found myself
having multiple orgasms while his mouth circled my
> cock. I
didn't lose my hard-on after each cum.
When the technique
> is performed
correctly it means many hours of unadulterated
> pleasure.
>
> LESSON FOUR
>
> With your man sitting in an elevated
position and you on
> your knees
in front of him lift his hard cock to reveal his balls.
> With your
tongue find the underside of his balls.
Now, while
> resting his
balls on your wet tongue, lick in an upward motion to
> the very tip
of his cock. It is permissible to use
your hands in
> this
technique. It is bettor to do this
technique several times
> in succession-like
licking a lollipop or ice cream cone. I grew up
> down south.
And one thing about southern boys, we learn early how
> to get if
off quickly when the need is there. And the lollipop
> lick is the
one technique in this book which few men can tolerate
> for long
periods of time without cumming.
>
> LESSON FIVE
>
> Right now lets discuss a technique
that is probably the
> most common
cocksucking technique in the world. Take
his cock in
> your mouth
but not deeply. We will get to deep-throating
later
> on. It's great, not over-rated, but if you want
to be an expert
> at deep
throat start with the right techniques and work your way
> down, so to
speak.
> Take his cock in your mouth by sliding
your moistened tongue
> lovingly
over the head until your lips close around the shaft at
> the point
just behind the corona. Don't just open
your mouth and
> close it
around his cock. Slide it in. He will enjoy it much more.
> Encase the shaft of his penis with
your hand. Remember the
> shaft is
relatively insensitive to any kind of stimulation. By
> enclosing
his penis with your hand you give him the sensation of
> having his
penis encased.
> Now you have several options. Try twisting your head from
> side to side
making sure your moist lips stay in contact with the
> coronal
ridge. While doing this gently move your
hand up and down
> the
shaft. When he climaxes he may want to
push your head further
> down the
shaft of his penis. He wants to envelop you with his
> cock. As you
are learning his climax you will miss the fine points
> if you deep
throat at this time. Instead gently suck
around the
> corona as he
climaxes so that you can intensify his pleasure and
> increase the
force of his orgasm.
> As you gain more experience you will
be able to tell exactly
> when his
climax is approaching and you will be ready for that
> initial
spurt out the rubber.
>
> LESSON SIX
>
> There is one further refinement to
this basic technique
> which will
heighten his orgasm. If you place your thumb at the
> very base of
the penis in such a way as to block the tube through
> which the
cum spurts, the semen cannot escape even though he is
> spasming and
going through the reflex action of ejaculating semen.
> If at the same time you suck
vigorously on the head of his
> cock you can
delay his cum for several long moments. When you
> finally
allow the cum to spurt it will last much longer and be
> just as
intense as a result. Even though you
delay the cum for
> only a few
short moments you will be surprised by the intensity of
> his cum.
> These techniques are the basis of
cocksucking. Do not go
> beyond them
until you have become an expert, not only in the
> techniques themselves,
but also in the reading and interpreting of
> your
partner's responses to such a point that you know exactly how
> he is
getting off on what you are doing. When
you have reached
> this point,
you are ready for the more subtle, more advanced
> techniques.
> Don't be so slavish that you miss out
on the fun of self
> discovery.
Find out what works for you and for your partner and
> make your
cocksucking as individual as your signature.
After all,
> you want
your man to pick you out in the dark among hundred
> slobbering
cocksuckers.
>
> LESSON SEVEN
>
> One of the first things you
encountered when you first
> started to
suck cock was a gag reflex. Most men
seem to want to
> force their
cocks down your throat as far as they can get it.
> Particularly
at the moment when they cum!
> Consider for a moment that the average
length of your oral
> cavity is
three to three and a half inches while the average
> Caucasian
cock length is five to five and a half inches. The laws
> of nature
would seem to dictate that getting all that cock into
> your mouth
is an impossibility.
> It can be done. You probably know
someone who can do it and
> that is why
you purchased this book to begin with. It is possible
> to master
the necessary technique. I don't want to
be boring, but
> if you
understand your anatomy you will begin to understand the
> requirements
that allow you to take his hard cock into your mouth
> and down
your throat. The biggest obstacle to taking
all of his
> cock down
your throat is the fact that there is a bend of almost
> ninety
degrees behind your tongue leading down into your throat.
> So the first
thing to do is get the cock past that angle.
>
> Get past the
angle of the dangle!
>
> In order to practice this, get in a
position where you can
> turn your
head in such a way that your mouth and throat lie almost
> in a
straight line. The best position to accomplish this is to lie
> on a bed so
that your head is near the edge with your body
> sprawled
across the bed so that your head is tipped sharply back.
> This
position will put your mouth and throat nearly in a line and
> will allow
your partner to approach you in such a way that
> insertion of
his cock can be made so deeply that his pubic hair
> presses
against your lips.
>
> LESSON EIGHT
>
> Today we will practice mastering
physical reaction that must
> be
alleviated before the art of deep penetration can fully be
> enjoyed. The
natural tendency of the body to gag when a foreign
> object such
as a deeply thrusting cock being forced down your
> throat. You can overcome this tendency by completely
relaxing
> your throat
at moment the insertion is made. It is equally
> important
that you maintain this relaxation during the entire deep
> throating.
> Let him put his cock down your throat
and hold it still
> while you
find the most comfortable way to proceed.
Because of
> your
position you will not be able to move or to offer him any
> greater
stimulation than simply keeping your mouth tightly closed
> around his
throbbing cock. If you are able try to
stimulate his
> underbelly
with your tongue, do it!
> You will only be able to relax and
take his cock in this way
> if you
completely thrust your partner. Your
partner is in full
>
control. He must initiate and maintain
all the motion. This is
> the only
exercise in which you relinquish your control of the
> situation to
your partner. He will relish this for the simple fact
> that for the
first time he can insert his cock as deeply down your
> throat as he
wants to. Now your partner begins an in
and out
> movement
that is just like fucking. He should
start slowly,
> especially
if this is a completely
> new
experience for the two of you. After all
if he hurts you he
> cuts himself
off from one of the great pleasures in life.
His
> only other
requirement during this exercise is to keep the motion
> in the same
direction throughout this oral exercise as there is
> simply no
leeway for him to vary the motion from side to side.
>
> One other
word of caution.
>
> Don't let your partner get carried
away at the moment he
> starts to
cum. At that spectacular moment he will
be able for the
> first time
to thrust his cock all the way inside your oral cavity
> and that is
the most important lesson of this exercise!
His only
> other
requirement during the exercise is to keep the motion in the
> same against
your lips as he cums. Because of your
position in
> bed you will
not be faced with the problem of swallowing his cum.
> And this is
not just because he has a condom on his dick.
The
> reason is
because he has gotten his cock BEYOND your gag reflex!
> Without the
rubber his cum would shoot directly into your stomach!
> If both you
and your partner understand what it is that you are
> trying to do
as well as the possible problems that may "cum" up
> along the
way no harm or discomfort will happen to either of you.
> It is possible that not everyone will
learn the "deep
> throat"
technique but this inability does not make you any less a
>
cocksucker. You must allow your throat
to relax completely while
> your partner
is thrusting his cock this deeply down your throat.
> To do this
long enough for your partner to completely get it off
> is very
difficult and may require practice beyond this day. It
> may be that
you will be able to take your partner completely down
> your throat,
but you will not be able to maintain proper
> relaxation
of your throat to until he shoots his load.
Hopefully
> your partner
will understand that this is not a rejection of him
> or of what
he is offering you, and it is my sincere desire that
> you not stop
here and think that you will never master the "deep
> throat"
technique.
> Continue to practice this lesson. I
know couples who have
> devoted ten
months to this lesson alone. Continue to
practice
> this
technique because your practice will allow you to take his
> cock deeper
into your throat each time and for longer periods of
> time. Ultimately you will succeed. If you have the desire you
> will get
this one down pat!
>
> LESSON NINE
>
> Now lets turn to another portion of
your partner's anatomy
> which should
not be ignored-the family jewels. Here are two
> objects
which can enhance your partner's feelings more than any
> other. Many people do not think of the balls as
primary sexual
> objects.
Many men are extremely sensitive and just as in lesson
> eight there
must be a certain amount of trust built up between the
> two of you
before he will willingly let you have undisputed use of
> these two
pearls of delight!
> For today's lesson begin by gently
licking his balls with
> your tongue.
As your partner becomes more trusting you may begin
> to play with
his nipples with your fingers gradually increasing or
> decreasing
the intensity as you gauge how he is responding. You
> may want to
gently caress his cock with your hand while you are
> bathing his
balls with your tongue.
> Remember that the balls are extremely
sensitive to pain and
> he will lose
his trust in you if you do not respect any limits he
> places on
them just as you have the right to place limits on the
> back of your
throat until you are completely ready to receive him.
> It is possible once you have built up
this trust to take
> both his
balls in your mouth. He will be more receptive to this if
> you
thoroughly wet them with your tongue prior to taking them into
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:38:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Tiffany N. Merriman"
<MoonStarr9@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"
Oh, come on. Mean people suck...Where's your sadistic,
cynical nature?
People suck is a
better statement. So don't be tempted to
join those damn
optimists who
post smiley faces on every remaining square inch of property.
Be a mysanthrop. It's fun.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:06:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ginny Browne <NICO88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: foucault
In a message
dated 97-05-21 17:02:41 EDT, you write:
> my favorite
is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
oh oh. like the
Magritte painting, no?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:34:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter
>Subject:
Secret Mullings About Bill
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
>
>i saw
reference yesterday to something like this being a work in
>progress of
Kerouac's at some point.
>
>given that
i'm a burroughs' junkie (and seem to becoming a Kerouacian as
>well) i'd
love to read Jack's insights into William.
>
>was this ever
published in any form? are there
photocopies in some
>vault?
>
>david rhaesa
Dear Dave: May 21, 1997
SECRET MULLINGS
ABOUT BILL was a novel Kerouac began and never finished
(that I know
of). Yes, it would still be part of the
"archive," unless A)
Mr. Sampas has
already sold it to a collector or B) he has sold or donated
it to the New
York Public Library. Perhaps our friend
Mr. Chaput with his
"8 page
list" can help us on this point.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:46:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: A Found Poem
At 06:51 PM
5/21/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>Dear
Phil, May 20, 1997
>>
>> You and Anstee should both go far--and
the sooner you start, the
>better.
>>
>> HAHAHAHAHA!
>> Gerry
>>
>>
>
> Gerry, caro paesano,
> ben detto!
> Gli amici girano
> per kilometri
> secondo dopo secondo
> alla fine del mondo.
> Un saluto dall'Italia!
>
> rinaldo *what's happen to rinaldo?*
>
Caro
Rinaldo, 21 maggio 1997
Lei e molto gentile, e io ti ringrazio
con tutto il mio cuore!
Spero ti vedere in California.
Ciao, Geraldo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:00:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: foucault
Ginny Browne
wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 97-05-21 17:02:41 EDT, you write:
>
> > my
favorite is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
>
> oh oh. like
the Magritte painting, no?
like? the whole book is about like. the cover is the painting ... but
it discusses the
levels of representation away from the thing from
pictorial
representation to word representation and yada yada blah blah
like? a perfect word.
the book ends
"A day will
come when, by means of similitude relayed indefinitely along
the length of a
series, the image itself, along with the name it bears,
will lose its
identity. Campbell, Campbell, Campbell,
Campbell."
this is his twist
to Warhol's approach evidently.
david rhaesa
salina kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:01:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
Comments: To:
davo@cjnetworks.com
David:
Good to see you
on the list. Charley will be passing through Lawrence in a
few days.
Pam
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:04:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> >Subject:
Secret Mullings About Bill
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> >i saw
reference yesterday to something like this being a work in
> >progress
of Kerouac's at some point.
> >
> >given
that i'm a burroughs' junkie (and seem to becoming a Kerouacian as
> >well)
i'd love to read Jack's insights into William.
> >
> >was this
ever published in any form? are there
photocopies in some
> >vault?
> >
> >david
rhaesa
>
> Dear
Dave: May 21, 1997
>
> SECRET
MULLINGS ABOUT BILL was a novel Kerouac began and never finished
> (that I know
of). Yes, it would still be part of the
"archive," unless A)
> Mr. Sampas
has already sold it to a collector or B) he has sold or donated
> it to the
New York Public Library. Perhaps our
friend Mr. Chaput with his
> "8 page
list" can help us on this point.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:06:41 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
>
> David:
> Good to see
you on the list. Charley will be passing through Lawrence in a
> few days.
> Pam
will he be here
in Salina for the Robert Peters reading on Sunday
morning?
i need about 3
weeks warning for apartment cleaning :)
david
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:14:41 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: foucault
In-Reply-To:
<970521170636_2086251513@emout01.mail.aol.com>
>In a message
dated 97-05-21 17:02:41 EDT, you write:
>
>> my
favorite is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
>
>oh oh. like
the Magritte painting, no?
Very good! Hats off to you.
John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:14:08 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: strange quote from On The Road by Jack
Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <l03020900afa8a7fff61f@[206.25.67.109]>
---
"On The
Road" parte one II page #61 (circa)
"He arranged
to get me the same kind of job he had, as a guard
in the barracks.
I went through the necessary routine, and to
my surprise the
bastars hired me. I was sworn in the local
police chief,
given a badge, a club, and now I was a special
policeman".
---
tonite my mind is
back in 69 when i read this keroauc quote &
was surprised
that a "rebel" as jack can get a job as policeman
there was in
november 69 reading OTR in a train in early morn
when daylight
were neon tube & venetian hinterland fog was around
thru the house
& raindrops on the window kerouac was only just
dead &
recognized as a symbol of the coutercultural mob there
was no place in
the patter of an alternative hero he may be a
policeman 30
years later still this passage was recalled by a
strange spark in
my dream/mind old times
yrs rinaldo *
the beatspotting *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:02:15 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome
of day
In-Reply-To: <l03020900afa8a7fff61f@[206.25.67.109]>
u are a'ngel
marie,
...
>6
>strictly
speaking, there is no me, because all is
>emptiness. i
am empty, i am non-existent
>
...
in a word
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:27:19 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: foucault
In-Reply-To:
<l03020902afa9320b2a40@[141.224.144.84]>
At 17.14 21/05/97
-0600, you John wrote:
>>In a
message dated 97-05-21 17:02:41 EDT, you write:
>>
>>> my
favorite is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
>>
>>oh oh.
like the Magritte painting, no?
>
>Very
good! Hats off to you.
>
>John M.
>
>
john, as french
philosopher, focault, (not that in XIX siecle
in the Eco
novel...) he is a good guy in the habitus of the
77 leftism as to
free so called man mad hospitalized in sad
bulding ( in
italy a great reformist was franco basaglia &
he was connected
with foucalt thoghts, sad both are actually
dead & the
reform of the asylum are to go back), sad others
french
philosopher has a tragic life, e.g. louis althusser
who was jaled
after he strangled his wife without any reason,
the only was the
madness that kept his mind, strange indeed
bunch of men who
believed in such a word called utopia,
yrs rinaldo * a
beatspotting *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:29:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: A Found Poem
In-Reply-To:
<199705212146.OAA17776@norway.it.earthlink.net>
At 14.46 21/05/97
-0700, you Geraldo wrote:
>At 06:51 PM
5/21/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>>Dear
Phil, May 20, 1997
>>>
>>> You and Anstee should both go far--and
the sooner you start, the
>>better.
>>>
>>> HAHAHAHAHA!
>>> Gerry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Gerry, caro paesano,
>> ben detto!
>> Gli amici girano
>> per kilometri
>> secondo dopo secondo
>> alla fine del mondo.
>> Un saluto dall'Italia!
>>
>> rinaldo *what's happen to rinaldo?*
>>
>
>Caro
Rinaldo, 21 maggio 1997
>
> Lei e molto gentile, e io ti ringrazio
con tutto il mio cuore!
> Spero ti vedere in California.
> Ciao, Geraldo
>
>
Caro Geraldo,
poi cucineremo in california una
buonissima
pasta a fagioli come dio comanda!
All'italiana!
cari saluti da
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:31:12 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: foucault
In-Reply-To:
<970521170636_2086251513@emout01.mail.aol.com>
At 17.06 21/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-21 17:02:41 EDT, you write:
>
>> my
favorite is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
>
>oh oh. like
the Magritte painting, no?
>
>
strane cose sono
accadute ai filosofi francesi che
guidarono la
controcultura negli anni 70...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:33:27 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"
In-Reply-To:
<970521163819_122146097@emout06.mail.aol.com>
At 16.38 21/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Oh, come
on. Mean people suck...Where's your
sadistic, cynical nature?
>People suck
is a better statement. So don't be
tempted to join those damn
>optimists who
post smiley faces on every remaining square inch of property.
> Be a
mysanthrop. It's fun.
>
>
got a black hole
from Hawkings & enjoi...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:39:07 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
In-Reply-To:
<970521180010_2052707062@emout17.mail.aol.com>
At 18.01 21/05/97
-0400, you wrote:
>David:
>Good to see
you on the list. Charley will be passing through Lawrence in a
>few days.
>Pam
>
>
are u listening
doctor freud?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:25:26 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: strange quote from On The Road by
Jack Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970522001408.00686fa4@pop.gpnet.it>
Beautifully
written! Thanks for the neon tube &
venetian hinterland fog
trip back to 69,
the beginning of whatever they will come to call the
postmodern
world. Jack never did fit well in a
box. Not even his coffin.
He's always
popping out of IT, his last will and testament. // John M.
>---
>"On The
Road" parte one II page #61 (circa)
>
>"He
arranged to get me the same kind of job he had, as a guard
>in the
barracks. I went through the necessary routine, and to
>my surprise
the bastars hired me. I was sworn in the local
>police chief,
given a badge, a club, and now I was a special
>policeman".
>
>---
>tonite my
mind is back in 69 when i read this keroauc quote &
>was surprised
that a "rebel" as jack can get a job as policeman
>there was in
november 69 reading OTR in a train in early morn
>when daylight
were neon tube & venetian hinterland fog was around
>thru the
house & raindrops on the window kerouac was only just
>dead &
recognized as a symbol of the coutercultural mob there
>was no place
in the patter of an alternative hero he may be a
>policeman 30
years later still this passage was recalled by a
>strange spark
in my dream/mind old times
>
>yrs
rinaldo * the
beatspotting *
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:26:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Robert Peters
David:
I think he will
get in touch with Robert when he gets to Wichita. I don't
know if he plans
to get to Salina. I'll let you know in
the next day or two.
Pam
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:27:45 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: justice barber around
well :
done falling
through painted backdrops
(in the
lost-found places where the wind hops)
in lost dog
running ; lost state ballroom
occasion. gone
april some...
; the lost places find
what could be teardrops
in the wind's fling
and here is
everything...
scared in a
gemstone stance
swear to god :
stone set in
concrete
stone romance...
let's not.
but sometimes @
grape playground w/
dog thumb
the goodness is
with
identification...
haply running out
by
a hundred points
of reference
which can only be
hollywood teen pictures
to sell.
but I maybe dog
rose
could have
best not > not
dead.
but pain as well
& cathy said
:
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:07:01 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Foucault
Hello, David and
Patricia!
Michel Foucault
was a french philosopher/historian who has also had a HUGE
impact on
literary criticism as well. In the
latter, he would be classified as
a
Marxist-materialist critic. His most
famous essay in criticism is entitled
"What Is an
Author?", in which he explores issues of hegemonic power in author-
reader
relationships.
Author=authority=controller-of-language=controller (to a
degree) of thought. His book _Madness & Civilization_ is also
an excellent
piece of work...
in it he asserts his theory that governments historically have
used
"insanity" as a means of controlling and intimidating the subjects of
the
government. Interesting stuff. I'm one of those who think he's fun to
read...
but it's academic
type fun, not necessarily light reading.
Sure, he was
homosexual; sure,
he did a lot of drugs. But who
cares? It's his contribution
to the
intellectual world that remains, and will be his legacy (IMHO). Hope
this helps...
---Wes
>>
>> Who is
foucault, is he fun to read.
>> p
>
>he's french.
was french. had a bowl of pot near him
to help in his
>writing. some think he is hard to read. some think he easy to read.
>they are both
liars. he is very different to
read. his history of
>sexuality is
interesting in digging through the history of sexual
>discourse. madness and civilization was nice for me
given that it was a
>similar
treatment concerning notions of insanity and the like.
>
>my favorite
is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
>
>david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:21:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Foucault
Wes Lundburg
wrote:
>
> Hello, David
and Patricia!
>
> Michel
Foucault was a french philosopher/historian who has also had a HUGE
> impact on
literary criticism as well. In the
latter, he would be classified
as
> a
Marxist-materialist critic. His most
famous essay in criticism is entitled
> "What
Is an Author?", in which he explores issues of hegemonic power in
author-
> reader
relationships.
Author=authority=controller-of-language=controller (to
a
> degree) of
thought. His book _Madness &
Civilization_ is also an excellent
> piece of
work... in it he asserts his theory that governments historically
have
> used
"insanity" as a means of controlling and intimidating the subjects of
the
>
government. Interesting stuff. I'm one of those who think he's fun to
read...
> but it's
academic type fun, not necessarily light reading. Sure, he was
> homosexual;
sure, he did a lot of drugs. But who
cares? It's his
contribution
> to the
intellectual world that remains, and will be his legacy (IMHO). Hope
> this
helps...
>
> ---Wes
>
> >>
> >> Who
is foucault, is he fun to read.
> >> p
> >
> >he's
french. was french. had a bowl of pot
near him to help in his
>
>writing. some think he is hard to
read. some think he easy to read.
> >they are
both liars. he is very different to
read. his history of
> >sexuality
is interesting in digging through the history of sexual
>
>discourse. madness and civilization
was nice for me given that it was a
> >similar
treatment concerning notions of insanity and the like.
> >
> >my
favorite is a small book titled "This is Not a Pipe."
> >
> >david
rhaesa
currently i have
his "subject and power" essay by the toilet. what's
the
"author" one in .......
and how would he
define "Beat"?
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:37:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
RACE --- wrote:
>
> Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
> >
> > David:
> > Good to
see you on the list. Charley will be passing through Lawrence in a
> > few
days.
> > Pam
>
> will he be
here in Salina for the Robert Peters reading on Sunday
> morning?
> i need about
3 weeks warning for apartment cleaning :)
>
> david
warning, warning,
i will come and look at you on sunday, warning warning
p
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:44:49 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: MEMORY BABE
Antoine Maloney in Montreal writes to
ask if MEMORY BABE, my
biography of
Kerouac, is out of print.
No, it is very much in print with
University of California Press.
You can order it directly from University
of California Press at
1-800-822-6657. It's now $20 plus shipping and, depending on
where you
live, sales tax
too.
Or, if you want a signed copy, you can
order it from me, $30
postpaid (cash,
check, or money order). (Allow time for
checks to clear.)
Thanks for your interest, Antoine.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:48:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
tongue
At 03:28 PM
5/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>So does anyone
have suggestions or best methods for cleaning off my
>computer
screen now?
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
>
>Lisa M. Rabey
wrote:
>>
>> At 02:48
PM 5/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Lisa
M. Rabey wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
At 09:29 AM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> >>
>Nice people swallow? I don't get
it...
>> >>
>
>> >>
>Paul
>> >>
>????
>> >>
>> >>
erm.
>> >>
Its a "joke" that has been running around for along time. Due to the
>> >>
popularity of the "mean people suck" campaign, there has been
variations
>> >>
such as "nice people swallow".
>> >>
It means, *being sexually explict* swallowing semen when you give head.'
>> >>
Get it now? ;)
>> >>
>> >>
ttfn.
>> >>
Lisa
>> >>
--
>> >>
>> >>
Lisa M. Rabey
>> >>
Internet and Computer Consultant
>> >>
San Francisco, California
>> >>
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>> >>
**************************************
>> >>
General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>> >
>>
>perhaps a demonstration would help everyone understand ....
>> >
>>
>> Sure! No
problem ;)
>>
>> HOW TO
SUCK COCK - A 14 LESSON TUTORIAL
>> WITH
TECHNIQUES FROM SOME OF THE EXPERTS.
>>
>> By:
Anonymous
>>
>> LESSON
ONE
>>
>> I am not
sure if it was because I grew up in a household with
>> brothers
or whether I would have had the same feelings and
>>
inclinations had I been an only child but I do know that from the
>> time of
my earliest memories I have been fascinated with penises.
>> Let's talk about the "basic
penis." I regard oral sex as the
>> highest
form of expression of love that can be exchanged between
>> two
people. Hopefully this information will help you to break down
>> any
barriers which you might have that would prevent you from
>>
expressing your love in this way and from receiving a
>>
reciprocation from your male companion.
>> First things first. LOOK at the cock. I do not mean a
>> cursory
glance not a hurried, surreptitious examination. Take
>> enough
time that you convince your companion that some kind of
>> treat is
in store for him provided he will allow you to do with
>> him, and
particularly with his cock, exactly what you want.
>> Place him flat on his back on your
bed, in a well lighted
>> room.
Take his cock in your hand and LOOK at it. He probably will
>> not have
the will power to stay soft, but then again you are
>>
worshipping his very essence. Few men
can stay soft under these
>>
circumstances, when it is apparent that the person LOOKING at his
>> cock is
worshipping.
>> When you first start to touch him, his
cock will become hard
>> and be
in a state where your examination will be meaningful.
>> Wouldn't
it be nice if going to the doctor for an examination was
>> as
enriching?
>> The cock must be hard if you are to be
able to note the
>>
important parts-those parts sensitive to stimulation by your lips
>> and
tongue.
>> The first thing you will note is
whether or not he is
>>
circumcised. Circumcision is not
universally practiced: there are
>> advantages
and disadvantages to penises in both conditions from
>> the
standpoint of providing oral caresses that bring the highest
>> kind of
delight to your man.
>> Next take a close look at the shaft of
the penis itself.
>> There is
a bulbous part of the organ near the outer end, slightly
>> larger
in diameter than the shaft, which is often called the head.
>>
Technically this is the glans penis (comes from the Latin glans
>> which
means acorn. Look at it closely; does
kind of look like an
>> acorn
doesn't it?)
>> The outside perimeter of the glans
penis is the corona. This
>> joins
the head to the shaft. This is the most sensitive spot on
>> the
penis. It is toward this ridge that you will direct most of
>> your
attention when you are giving head.
Follow this ridge around
>> to the
underside of the penis. You know that I like to call it the
>>
underbelly. I am particularly fond of the underbelly!
>> You will notice a point of juncture
where the two ends of
>> this
irregular circle come together. If your partner is not
>>
circumcised, this will also be the point where the foreskin is
>>
attached. This tiny area is easily the
most sensitive spot on his
>> entire
body, and it is possible to bring your partner to climax
>> simply
by gently tapping the tip of your tongue directly on it.
>> Spend
time caressing the glans and those areas immediately
>>
surrounding it.
>> Beneath the glans is the shaft of the
penis. The shaft does
>> not have
many nerve endings and does not, therefore, provide a man
>> with any
high degree of stimulation when caressed either manually
>> or with
your tongue to the exclusion of the glans penis itself.
>> It
always amazes me to note the number of confirmed cocksuckers
>> who
believe that sucking up and down on the shaft will get the guy
>> off.
That's not it folks! If it works it is because the back of
>> your
throat is playing tricks on his glans penis. Your throat is
>> giving
head to his head!
>> Beneath the shaft are the testicles
(balls, jewels, call
>> them
what you like, but let's not ignore their significance). The
>>
testicles are extremely sensitive to pain and are not usually
>>
considered subject to erotic stimulation to any particular degree.
>> Not
true! You can add a high degree of
pleasure for him by paying
>> the
right kind of attention to the balls!
>> Now lets go back to the shaft of the
matter. The opening in
>> the tip
of the glans penis is the meatus. Here
is where the cum
>> spurts.
(I could have said semen is ejaculated but I did not want
>> to sound
too professional).
>> There are other parts of a man's body
which respond with
>> alacrity
to oral stimulation.
>> Many men are particularly sensitive
around the nipples. The
>> first
time I kissed my partner's nipples he shot before I had the
>> chance
to even get near his cock. While I have not been able to
>>
duplicate this in the laboratory setting (he hates to go near the
>> lab with
me) my partner still gets extremely turned on by my
>> lingual
nipple caresses.
>> So LOOK at your partner's penis. Study
it. Learn its areas
>> of
special sensitivity completely and be ready to apply your
>>
knowledge to his body with your tongue and with your lips when you
>> bend
your loving head over his cock. There is nothing that you can
>> do which
more clearly shows your love for him than the worship you
>> can
provide his cock!
>>
>> LESSON
TWO
>>
>> The sad fact is that most people, men
and women, do not have
>> the
slightest idea of how to suck cock. Most seem to think that
>> simply
by making a cunt of their mouth, closing it around a man's
>> penis,
and bobbing their heads lustily up and down until he
>> climaxes
automatically makes them expert cocksuckers.
Au
>>
contraire!
>> Consummate skill is required to suck a
man's cock and
>> provide
him with the highest degree of pleasure possible. When I
>> first
started my quest I really had no one to turn to for advice
>> and
counsel. It was all hunt and suck. Hunt and suck. Find that
>> one
technique that could and would set him on fire!
I had to
>> learn
from my experiences and while I would not want to deny you
>> the
innate pleasure that these experiences will bring I would hate
>> to see
you lose a great companion because of your inexperience and
>> lack of
expertise.
>> Let's assume that you have taken that
opportunity to LOOK at
>> his
penis. To explore each area of the penis
to find the most
>>
sensitive parts. That you have gotten beyond "Parts is parts" and
>>
recognize that some parts are more equal than others.
>> In order for you to observe your man's
reactions and get the
>> most
information possible about his responses try the following:
>> While his erect penis points toward
the ceiling, cup his
>> balls in
one hand and gently, using only your tongue, lick softly,
>> but
carefully along the entire underside of his erect organ. As
>> you suck
along the underbelly you will learn those areas that give
>> him the
greatest pleasure when your tongue is touching them.
>> Unless
he is made of stone, your partner will provide you with
>> vivid
clues as to which areas are most pleasurable.
>> As you discover these areas of enhanced
pleasure concentrate
>> on them.
For most men the most sensitive area will be the point
>> where
the ring (or corona) of the head and the foreskin are
>>
attached. Or were attached prior to his circumcision. By
>>
continued licking and tapping along this area with your tongue you
>> are
going to bring forth a geyser. If you are not skilled and you
>> want to
please him in a hurry I suggest that you get him off in
>> this
manner in order to become familiar at first hand with the
>> nature
and delight of his climax.
>> As he is getting ready for climax you
will note changes in
>> his
penis. These signs will be the same every time he climaxes so
>> that you
can prepare for his cum properly. The head of the cock
>> may
swell somewhat larger then it is during the normal course of
>> his
erection. He may thrust his hips forward
as he wants to send
>> his
>> body
hurtling out his cock with his cum. And for most men,
>>
immediately prior to the cum, there will appear at the tiny,
>> lovely
lips at the tip of the cock a clear drop or two of fluid.
>> When you
see this or feel the opening at the meatus through his
>> condom
you know that the moment of truth is at hand. Launch the
>>
torpedoes, full cum ahead!
>> Where should you be when you are
sucking his cock? Between
>> his
legs, on top of him, in a sixty nine position?
Where?
>> Because
of the structure of his penis, as well as the structure of
>> your
mouth, lips, tongue, and teeth, you can provide the highest
>> degree
of sensation to yourself and your partner by kneeling
>> between
his legs and approaching his cock from the bottom rather
>> than
from the side or the top. Don't believe me? Try the various
>>
positions (I describe in later chapters techniques to be used with
>> each
position). See what works best for you and your partner.
>>
>> LESSON
THREE
>>
>> Place his stiff cock inside your mouth
but do not tighten
>> your
lips around the shaft. With your head begin a circle motion.
>> The cock
will slide to different places in your mouth as you
>> continue
the circle motion. Watch your teeth on
this one. A
>> kneeling
position will suffice but it is also effective when your
>> partner
is on his back and your head is directly over his cock.
>> The
circle should be executed in both clockwise and
>>
counterclockwise motions in a slow purposeful manner. I found many
>> guys in
New York who seem to prefer this technique above all
>> others.
I met one guy who could circle a cock for hours and I
>> found
myself having multiple orgasms while his mouth circled my
>> cock. I
didn't lose my hard-on after each cum.
When the technique
>> is
performed correctly it means many hours of unadulterated
>>
pleasure.
>>
>> LESSON
FOUR
>>
>> With your man sitting in an elevated
position and you on
>> your
knees in front of him lift his hard cock to reveal his balls.
>> With
your tongue find the underside of his balls.
Now, while
>> resting
his balls on your wet tongue, lick in an upward motion to
>> the very
tip of his cock. It is permissible to
use your hands in
>> this
technique. It is bettor to do this
technique several times
>> in
succession-like licking a lollipop or ice cream cone. I grew up
>> down
south. And one thing about southern boys, we learn early how
>> to get
if off quickly when the need is there. And the lollipop
>> lick is
the one technique in this book which few men can tolerate
>> for long
periods of time without cumming.
>>
>> LESSON
FIVE
>>
>> Right now lets discuss a technique
that is probably the
>> most
common cocksucking technique in the world.
Take his cock in
>> your
mouth but not deeply. We will get to
deep-throating later
>> on. It's great, not over-rated, but if you want
to be an expert
>> at deep
throat start with the right techniques and work your way
>> down, so
to speak.
>> Take his cock in your mouth by sliding
your moistened tongue
>> lovingly
over the head until your lips close around the shaft at
>> the
point just behind the corona. Don't just
open your mouth and
>> close it
around his cock. Slide it in. He will enjoy it much more.
>> Encase the shaft of his penis with
your hand. Remember the
>> shaft is
relatively insensitive to any kind of stimulation. By
>>
enclosing his penis with your hand you give him the sensation of
>> having
his penis encased.
>> Now you have several options. Try twisting your head from
>> side to
side making sure your moist lips stay in contact with the
>> coronal ridge. While doing this gently move your hand up and
down
>> the
shaft. When he climaxes he may want to
push your head further
>> down the
shaft of his penis. He wants to envelop you with his
>> cock. As
you are learning his climax you will miss the fine points
>> if you
deep throat at this time. Instead gently
suck around the
>> corona
as he climaxes so that you can intensify his pleasure and
>> increase
the force of his orgasm.
>> As you gain more experience you will
be able to tell exactly
>> when his
climax is approaching and you will be ready for that
>> initial
spurt out the rubber.
>>
>> LESSON
SIX
>>
>> There is one further refinement to
this basic technique
>> which
will heighten his orgasm. If you place your thumb at the
>> very
base of the penis in such a way as to block the tube through
>> which
the cum spurts, the semen cannot escape even though he is
>> spasming
and going through the reflex action of ejaculating semen.
>> If at the same time you suck vigorously
on the head of his
>> cock you
can delay his cum for several long moments. When you
>> finally
allow the cum to spurt it will last much longer and be
>> just as
intense as a result. Even though you
delay the cum for
>> only a
few short moments you will be surprised by the intensity of
>> his cum.
>> These techniques are the basis of
cocksucking. Do not go
>> beyond
them until you have become an expert, not only in the
>>
techniques themselves, but also in the reading and interpreting of
>> your
partner's responses to such a point that you know exactly how
>> he is
getting off on what you are doing. When
you have reached
>> this
point, you are ready for the more subtle, more advanced
>>
techniques.
>> Don't be so slavish that you miss out
on the fun of self
>>
discovery. Find out what works for you and for your partner and
>> make
your cocksucking as individual as your signature. After all,
>> you want
your man to pick you out in the dark among hundred
>> slobbering
cocksuckers.
>>
>> LESSON
SEVEN
>>
>> One of the first things you
encountered when you first
>> started
to suck cock was a gag reflex. Most men
seem to want to
>> force
their cocks down your throat as far as they can get it.
>>
Particularly at the moment when they cum!
>> Consider for a moment that the average
length of your oral
>> cavity
is three to three and a half inches while the average
>>
Caucasian cock length is five to five and a half inches. The laws
>> of
nature would seem to dictate that getting all that cock into
>> your
mouth is an impossibility.
>> It can be done. You probably know
someone who can do it and
>> that is
why you purchased this book to begin with. It is possible
>> to
master the necessary technique. I don't
want to be boring, but
>> if you
understand your anatomy you will begin to understand the
>>
requirements that allow you to take his hard cock into your mouth
>> and down
your throat. The biggest obstacle to
taking all of his
>> cock
down your throat is the fact that there is a bend of almost
>> ninety
degrees behind your tongue leading down into your throat.
>> So the
first thing to do is get the cock past that angle.
>>
>> Get past
the angle of the dangle!
>>
>> In order to practice this, get in a
position where you can
>> turn
your head in such a way that your mouth and throat lie almost
>> in a
straight line. The best position to accomplish this is to lie
>> on a bed
so that your head is near the edge with your body
>> sprawled
across the bed so that your head is tipped sharply back.
>> This
position will put your mouth and throat nearly in a line and
>> will
allow your partner to approach you in such a way that
>>
insertion of his cock can be made so deeply that his pubic hair
>> presses
against your lips.
>>
>> LESSON
EIGHT
>>
>> Today we will practice mastering
physical reaction that must
>> be
alleviated before the art of deep penetration can fully be
>> enjoyed.
The natural tendency of the body to gag when a foreign
>> object
such as a deeply thrusting cock being forced down your
>>
throat. You can overcome this tendency
by completely relaxing
>> your
throat at moment the insertion is made. It is equally
>>
important that you maintain this relaxation during the entire deep
>>
throating.
>> Let him put his cock down your throat
and hold it still
>> while
you find the most comfortable way to proceed.
Because of
>> your
position you will not be able to move or to offer him any
>> greater
stimulation than simply keeping your mouth tightly closed
>> around
his throbbing cock. If you are able try
to stimulate his
>>
underbelly with your tongue, do it!
>> You will only be able to relax and
take his cock in this way
>> if you
completely thrust your partner. Your
partner is in full
>>
control. He must initiate and maintain
all the motion. This is
>> the only
exercise in which you relinquish your control of the
>>
situation to your partner. He will relish this for the simple fact
>> that for
the first time he can insert his cock as deeply down your
>> throat
as he wants to. Now your partner begins
an in and out
>> movement
that is just like fucking. He should
start slowly,
>>
especially if this is a completely
>> new
experience for the two of you. After all
if he hurts you he
>> cuts
himself off from one of the great pleasures in life. His
>> only
other requirement during this exercise is to keep the motion
>> in the
same direction throughout this oral exercise as there is
>> simply
no leeway for him to vary the motion from side to side.
>>
>> One
other word of caution.
>>
>> Don't let your partner get carried
away at the moment he
>> starts
to cum. At that spectacular moment he
will be able for the
>> first
time to thrust his cock all the way inside your oral cavity
>> and that
is the most important lesson of this exercise!
His only
>> other
requirement during the exercise is to keep the motion in the
>> same
against your lips as he cums. Because of
your position in
>> bed you
will not be faced with the problem of swallowing his cum.
>> And this
is not just because he has a condom on his dick. The
>> reason
is because he has gotten his cock BEYOND your gag reflex!
>> Without
the rubber his cum would shoot directly into your stomach!
>> If both
you and your partner understand what it is that you are
>> trying
to do as well as the possible problems that may "cum" up
>> along
the way no harm or discomfort will happen to either of you.
>> It is possible that not everyone will
learn the "deep
>>
throat" technique but this inability does not make you any less a
>>
cocksucker. You must allow your throat
to relax completely while
>> your
partner is thrusting his cock this deeply down your throat.
>> To do
this long enough for your partner to completely get it off
>> is very
difficult and may require practice beyond this day. It
>> may be
that you will be able to take your partner completely down
>> your
throat, but you will not be able to maintain proper
>>
relaxation of your throat to until he shoots his load. Hopefully
>> your
partner will understand that this is not a rejection of him
>> or of
what he is offering you, and it is my sincere desire that
>> you not
stop here and think that you will never master the "deep
>>
throat" technique.
>> Continue to practice this lesson. I
know couples who have
>> devoted
ten months to this lesson alone.
Continue to practice
>> this
technique because your practice will allow you to take his
>> cock
deeper into your throat each time and for longer periods of
>>
time. Ultimately you will succeed. If you have the desire you
>> will get
this one down pat!
>>
>> LESSON
NINE
>>
>> Now lets turn to another portion of
your partner's anatomy
>> which
should not be ignored-the family jewels. Here are two
>> objects
which can enhance your partner's feelings more than any
>>
other. Many people do not think of the
balls as primary sexual
>> objects.
Many men are extremely sensitive and just as in lesson
>> eight
there must be a certain amount of trust built up between the
>> two of
you before he will willingly let you have undisputed use of
>> these
two pearls of delight!
>> For today's lesson begin by gently
licking his balls with
>> your
tongue. As your partner becomes more trusting you may begin
>> to play
with his nipples with your fingers gradually increasing or
>>
decreasing the intensity as you gauge how he is responding. You
>> may want
to gently caress his cock with your hand while you are
>> bathing
his balls with your tongue.
>> Remember that the balls are extremely
sensitive to pain and
>> he will
lose his trust in you if you do not respect any limits he
>> places
on them just as you have the right to place limits on the
>> back of
your throat until you are completely ready to receive him.
>> It is possible once you have built up
this trust to take
>> both his
balls in your mouth. He will be more receptive to this if
>> you
thoroughly wet them with your tongue prior to taking them into
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:56:41 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Foucault
david wrote:
>
>currently i
have his "subject and power" essay by the toilet. what's
>the
"author" one in .......
>
>and how would
he define "Beat"?
>
Hey, david!
My copy of
"What Is an Author?" is in _The Foucault Reader_, ed. Paul Rabinow,
New York:
Pantheon, 1984. I think this book is
still in print, and should be in
any college
library. I don't think this essay was
published in any previous
collection, but
I'm probably wrong.
How would he
define "beat"? Heh, heh,
heh. I'll tell you this: he WAS beat!
Spent the last
half of his life pushing things over the edge to try to
experience
everything he could. His doing this in
the "leather" underworld of
San Francisco
resulted in his contracting AIDS... which is what eventually
killed him
(1984). I certainly don't recommend his
way of living Beat...
Anyway, his work
is, IMO, in the spirit of Beat-ness...
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:48:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat Books Garage Sale III
Time to make some
room on the shelves!
Sometime in the
next few days I will be e-mailing a list of Beat, Beat
related and a few
non-beat books I have lying around. It
will include about
30 titles by
virtually all of the major beat writers - nothing over $20, most
in the $5 to $10
range. Virtually all of the books
offered will be "reader"
copies, no
limited editions, decent but less than perfectly pristine
condition and
definately nothing from the Kerouac Estate!
To receive an
e-mail copy of the items for sale, please e-mail me PRIVATELY
(Hpark4@aol.com),
not to the full BEAL-L list. Also, the
list will not be
posted on the
BEAT-L list.
If you wish to
recieve an e-mail with the books for sale, please reply
PRIVATELY
soon. The chances are that I will send
the list by Sunday or
Monday. If you responded to the "sale"
several months ago, I have saved your
e-mail address,
but if you want to be sure to recieve my list it is a good
idea to respond
again. I anticipate that most of the
books will sell
quickly.
Thanks and sorry
for this semi-commercial intrusion.
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:07:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome
of day
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> from : The
Scripture of the Golden eternity
>
> 1
> did i create
that sky? yes, for, if it was
> anything
other than a concepton in my mind
> i wouldnt
have said 'sky' --that is why i am the
> golden
eternity. there are not two of us here,
> reader and
writer, but one, one golden eternity,
>
one-which-it-is,-that-which-everything-is
>
reminds me of ontological
difference, the difference between being and
that which is
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:37:29 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome
of day
Marie Countryman
wrote:
Thanks, Marie,
for posting that quote...coincidentally last night I was
reading the same
book, and I thought I'd put up the last few
choruses-which I
think are the best in the book-for anyone unfamiliar.
The last chorus
provides the punchline to the whole thing!
64
I was smelling
flowers in the yard, and when
I stood up I took
a deep breath and the blood all
rushed to my
brain and I woke up dead on my
back in the
grass. I had apparently fainted,
or died, for
about sixty seconds. My neighbor
saw me but he
thought I had just suddenly
thrown myself on
the grass to enjoy the sun.
During that
timeless moment of unconsciousness
I saw the golden
eternity. I saw heaven. In it
nothing had ever
happened, the events of a
million years ago were just as phantom and
ungraspable as
the events of now or of a million
years from now,
or the events of the next ten
minutes. It was
perfect, the golden solitude, the
golden emptiness,
Something-Or-Other, something
surely humble.
There was a rapturous ring of
silence abiding
perfectly. There was no question
of being alive or
not being alive, of likes and
dislikes, of near
or far, no question of giving
or gratitude, no
question of mercy or judgment,
or of suffering
or its opposite or anything.
It was the womb
itself, aloneness, alaya vijnana
the universal store,
the Great Free Treasure, the
Great Victory,
infinite completion, the joyful
mysterious
essence of Arrangement. It seemed
like one smiling
smile, one adorable adoration,
one gracious and
adorable charity, everlasting
safety,
refreshing afternoon, roses, infinite
brilliant
immaterial gold ash, the Golden Age.
The
"golden" came from the sun in my eyelids,
and the
"eternity" from my sudden instant
realization as I
woke up that I had just
been where it all
came from and where it
was all
returning, the everlasting So, and
so never coming
or going; therefore I call it
the golden
eternity but you can call it anything
you want. As I
regained consciousness I felt so sorry
I had a body and
a mind suddenly realizing I
didn't even have
a body and a mind and nothing
had ever happened
and everything is alright
forever and
forever and forever, O thank you
thank you thank
you.
65
This is the first
teaching from
the golden
eternity.
66
The second
teaching from the golden eternity
is that there never
was a first teaching
from the golden
eternity. So be sure.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 02:32:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Chapoo is Magoo
Phil,
I'm the one who
posted the original "Chaput is Kaput" note and everyone else
simply replied to
it as you well know. Whether Gerry ought
to know better as
to the correct
pronunciation isn't an issue at all. And
"Kaput" did seem to
sum up your
situation. ;-)
Thanks for giving
me another opportunity to clear things up, because after
reading your
recent posts it makes me realize you really aren't simply Kaput,
you're Mister
Magoo! Phil, you're a cartoon character
with these insane
arguments you
make!
You claim Gerry
broke the law by making photocopies of Jack's letters. You
might want to do
-your- homework, Phil. It's legal to
make a copy for your
personal
use. And you accuse Gerry of not
checking his facts!
Phil, how about
if you answer some questions for a change?
You fire assinine
questions out by
the dozens but don't answer any questions at all. Of course
you're in good
company... Anstee and Weinberg aren't any good at answering
questions either
- only making accusations.
Phil, why don't
you tell us how much funding LCK! gets from John Sampas?
This is a very valid question that goes
directly to motivation and I am sure
you will either
dodge it or simply not answer at all. I
think it is
important for
people to know how much support your organization gets from the
Sampas
family. I know you'll come back (if you
come back at all) saying that
is priveleged
information etc, just like some of your friends who can do
nothing more than
make accusations, but there is no reason in the world why
you can't at
least tell us a percentage. Is it
10%? 50%? 100%?
Prove me
wrong, Phil. Show us you can speak with candor instead of
always trying to
muddy up the
works.
Phil, you've said
on more than one occassion you can't believe Stella Sampas
would have forged
the will. I don't recall Nicosia ever
saying it was Stella
who did it. But be that as it may what makes you think
you can judge what
another person is
capable of doing? Do you think the
Unabombers mother
could have
believed her son was capable of what he did?
Or Timothy
McVeigh's? Or Son of Sam's? Now before you go popping off I'm comparing
anyone to mass
murderers calm down and understand -this
is an analogy,
Phil-. I'm not saying anyone is a murderer! My making an analogy does not
mean you get to
change the subject by saying I'm saying Stella or anyone else
is a
murderer. Understand? I'm simply saying you can't be inside anyone
else's head so
how can you know what anyone else is really capable of doing?
C'mon, Phil...
answer the questions:
1). How much funding does LCK! get from the Sampas
family?
2). What other -evidence- do you have Nicosia is
wrong about anything?
The issue is the
archives. Let's stay focussed on that!
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:46:35 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome
of day
Hello,
If you all have
this post already, don't mind me...I was told it didn't
go through.
Adrien
So lemme try
again...
Marie Countryman
wrote:
Thanks, Marie,
for posting that quote...coincidentally last night I was
reading the same
book, and I thought I'd put up the last few
choruses-which I
think are the best in the book-for anyone unfamiliar.
The last chorus
provides the punchline to the whole thing!
64
I was smelling
flowers in the yard, and when
I stood up I took
a deep breath and the blood all
rushed to my
brain and I woke up dead on my
back in the
grass. I had apparently fainted,
or died, for
about sixty seconds. My neighbor
saw me but he
thought I had just suddenly
thrown myself on
the grass to enjoy the sun.
During that
timeless moment of unconsciousness
I saw the golden
eternity. I saw heaven. In it
nothing had ever
happened, the events of a
million years ago were just as phantom and
ungraspable as
the events of now or of a million
years from now, or
the events of the next ten
minutes. It was
perfect, the golden solitude, the
golden emptiness,
Something-Or-Other, something
surely humble.
There was a rapturous ring of
silence abiding
perfectly. There was no question
of being alive or
not being alive, of likes and
dislikes, of near
or far, no question of giving
or gratitude, no
question of mercy or judgment,
or of suffering
or its opposite or anything.
It was the womb
itself, aloneness, alaya vijnana
the universal
store, the Great Free Treasure, the
Great Victory,
infinite completion, the joyful
mysterious
essence of Arrangement. It seemed
like one smiling
smile, one adorable adoration,
one gracious and
adorable charity, everlasting
safety,
refreshing afternoon, roses, infinite
brilliant
immaterial gold ash, the Golden Age.
The
"golden" came from the sun in my eyelids,
and the
"eternity" from my sudden instant
realization as I
woke up that I had just
been where it all
came from and where it
was all
returning, the everlasting So, and
so never coming
or going; therefore I call it
the golden
eternity but you can call it anything
you want. As I
regained consciousness I felt so sorry
I had a body and
a mind suddenly realizing I
didn't even have
a body and a mind and nothing
had ever happened
and everything is alright
forever and
forever and forever, O thank you
thank you thank
you.
65
This is the first
teaching from
the golden
eternity.
66
The second
teaching from the golden eternity
is that there
never was a first teaching
from the golden
eternity. So be sure.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:36:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Last Gasp
Thanks to a
BEAT-L post a few weeks back, I snail mailed Last Gasp for a
catalog. I
received my fantastic Spring 1997 Last Gasp catalog yesterday.
In it, they list
their web site, www.lastgasp.com
Here they have a
large online catalog with S. Clay Wilson, R Crumb, 13
ZAP Comix
reprints for $2.95 each, Tim Leary comics, a huge selection of
books and comics,
etc etc etc. complete with a running slide show
highlighting
their wares. I want to share this fantastic web site with
BEAT-L readers!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:59:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: pome/thought for the day
In-Reply-To: <33833A5E.65BD@sunflower.com>
THREE LAMENTS -
Diane DiPrima
I
Alas
I believe
I might have
become
a great writer
but
the chairs
in the library
were too hard
II
I have
the upper hand
but if I keep it
I'll lose the
circulation
in one arm
III
So here i am the
coolest in New York
what dont swing i
dont push.
In some Elysian
field
by a big tree
I chew my pride
like cud.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:58:37 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Fare ye well, crash the CLASH.
In-Reply-To: <l03020902afa9320b2a40@[141.224.144.84]>
15 years later
fare ye well
clash, awright!
i quote:
Hungry darkness
of living
Who will thirst in
the pit?
She spent a
lifetime deciding
How to run from
it
GHETTO
DEFENDANT
COMBAT ROCK,
THE CLASH, 1982
yrs Rinaldo *a
beatspotting & a not competent beat & a beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:50:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: pop quiz
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970522135837.00686890@pop.gpnet.it>
what is the sound
of one ego clapping?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:53:05 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: pop quiz
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> what is the
sound of one ego clapping?
a Freudian fart
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:47:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
In a message
dated 97-05-22 03:12:07 EDT Jerry C.
wrote:
>
> Anstee and
Weinberg aren't any good at answering
>questions
either - only making accusations.
>
Jerry, ol' bean,
did you ask me a question? Sorry, if I missed it -- ask
away!
As for
"accusations" -- I've expressed my opinions, forcefully at times
(certainly, it's
an important subject), and even humourously at times (I
hope!).
Sadly, my
opinions have no force in law. Nor do any of our discussions about
this issue on the
Beat-List, no matter how heated and earnest, which is why I
believe we'll
never see a bona fide Sampas representative here, as Gerry so
devoutly wishes.
Any competent second-year law student would advise his
client thus. The
difference is that, unlike Gerry's lawyer, the Sampas lawyer
apparently
doesn't have a fool for a client!
CHEERS, Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:05:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: pop quiz question 2
In-Reply-To: <338441B1.2B9B@midusa.net>
>Marie
Countryman wrote:
>>
>> what is
the sound of one ego clapping?
>
>a Freudian
fart
>
>db
ok: now, if a
freudian farts in the wildnerness, does anyone care?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:28:28 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: paul caspers <caspers@WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
At 07:49 AM
5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>> Premise
#1 Swallowing is a basic biological
process.
>> Premise
#2 Nice People swallow
>>
Therefore Niceness is a basic
biological process for people.
>>
>> the same
thinking applies somewhat to other notions such as "inhaling"!!
>
>David,
>I like this
logic. "Nice people do" works
for me. They certainly
>inhale. This suggests logical problems for mc's
"mean people suck"
>since sucking
is also basic biological behavior and therefore nice?
premise #1 People need to swallow in order to feed
themselves
premise #2 Sucking is merely non-essential (biological)
behavior
premise #4 Nice people swallow
premise #5 Mean people suck
therefore Niceness is necessary
and Meanness is not
-Paul C.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:27:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
At 05:44 PM
5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
> Antoine Maloney in Montreal writes to
ask if MEMORY BABE, my
>biography of
Kerouac, is out of print.
> No, it is very much in print with
University of California Press.
> You can order it directly from
University of California Press at
>1-800-822-6657. It's now $20 plus shipping and, depending on
where you
>live, sales
tax too.
> Or, if you want a signed copy, you can
order it from me, $30
>postpaid
(cash, check, or money order). (Allow
time for checks to clear.)
> Thanks for your interest, Antoine.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
>At 10:48 AM
5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Dear
Phil, May 21, 1997
>
> To answer one of your reasonable
questions--concerning the 2,000
>xeroxed
Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.
>(Letters that
are now under seal because of John Sampas's threat to take
>legal action
against the library if they show them without his permission.)
> The reason they were xeroxes is because
by far the majority of those
>people I
interviewed would not let me carry off their original Kerouac
>letters. But they let me xerox them for my own use.
Let me get this
straight they let you use them for your own use right?
"But they
let me xerox them for my own use."GN
Did you tell them
your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with
U-LOWELL Answer??????????
>P.S. You also better go back to law school, or
perhaps you were cutting
>classes the
day they went over property rights. If I
pay for a xerox copy,
>that piece of
paper belongs to me, and I can give it away or sell it or
burn it--whatever
I please. GN
So let me get
this straight if we on the beat-l list pay for a xerox copy of
your book
"Memory Babe"or any other book, then because we paid for the copy
we can give it
away or sell it. No wonder John Lash thinks you shouldn't be
the literary
executor of Jan's estate.
I propose I will
start copying Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe" tonight. I have
a very fast laser
printer with a scanner and I'll be able to sell a copy for
about $4.00. It's
legal Gerry says it is. Hey this could get pretty
lucrative. Now if
I sent the book that I copied what would you charge for to
sign a bunch.
Could I get like 100 signed for say 50 cents apiece. Then it's
not bad $4.50 for
your book signed. But it's OK because the scholar says
it's legal. If
you agree to sign a hundred for 50 cents and John Sampas
signs them for 50
cents Then it would only be $5.00. An incredible deal and
a great
"estate keepsake" for our listeners. Any takers I'm taking orders as
we speak. Any
body want one? Don't worry, Gerry says it's all 100% legal and
he should know he
is a great scholar and very knowledgable in literary
estate matters.
I'll do Kerouac
paperbacks for like 99 cents (there small) that shouldn't be
a problem right Gerry.
Rod if your
listening. I do have a big buyer for that stuff we talked about.
It's an all cash
deal and you can make some big money on that.I couldn't
believe how much
money he was talking about.We can both walk away very happy
E-mail me privately-
I'm Serious! Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:43:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: pop quiz question 2
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> >Marie
Countryman wrote:
> >>
> >>
what is the sound of one ego clapping?
> >
> >a
Freudian fart
> >
> >db
>
> ok: now, if
a freudian farts in the wildnerness, does anyone care?
anyone doesn't
care, if anyone can smoke in the wilderness ...?....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:46:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
paul caspers wrote:
>
> At 07:49 AM
5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >>
Premise #1 Swallowing is a basic
biological process.
> >>
Premise #2 Nice People swallow
> >>
Therefore Niceness is a basic
biological process for people.
> >>
> >> the
same thinking applies somewhat to other notions such as "inhaling"!!
> >
> >David,
> >I like
this logic. "Nice people do"
works for me. They certainly
>
>inhale. This suggests logical
problems for mc's "mean people suck"
> >since
sucking is also basic biological behavior and therefore nice?
>
> premise
#1 People need to swallow in order to
feed themselves
> premise
#2 Sucking is merely non-essential
(biological) behavior
> premise
#4 Nice people swallow
> premise
#5 Mean people suck
>
therefore Niceness is necessary
> and Meanness is not
>
> -Paul C.
i take it the
third premise is implied ....
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:23:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
In-Reply-To: <338356CF.6D73@sunflower.com>
At 1:10 PM -0700
5/21/97, Patricia Elliott wrote:
> Lisa,
> you are a
treasure.
> p
yes, thank
you. I usually just skim the headings of
this list and well,
couldn't pass
this one up. Have passed it along to
various male and female
friends already. Reminds me of the 'how-to-cunnilingus' text
that I found
on the web
somewhere.
and somewhat
offtopic, please let me relate this little bit of info.
Friend and I were
talking during lunch the other day, and we got to talking
about sex, (geez
I don't know how that happened) and finally he tells/shows
me what is
usually said of sex: <wiping his
forearm across the mouth
slowly, eyes
locked in a tiger embrace, "now, you owe me!!"> I thought
this hilarious
and have been waiting for the opportunity to tell it.
cheers and thanx
again, Douglas
<<"what
do they call that spot
at the base of
the neck?
right there, I
want it"
(quasi-ralph
fiennes
_english
patient_)>>
>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:27:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Don't be puttin down Mr Magoo
That's right
Don't be puttin
down Mr Magoo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:42:57 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: strange quote from On The Road by
Jack Kerouac
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 May 1997 00:14:08 +0200
from <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Well, he wasn't
really a policeman. More like a private
security guard.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:50:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Tracy J Neumann
<tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970522142741.0068a3c4@pop.tiac.net>
Okay, this is an
absolutely ridiculous response. Mr.
Chaput, I hope this
was meant in a
very facetious manner, because otherwise you are making
yourself sound
like a fool. If Mr. Nicosia was told he
could copy private
property for use,
and the law states that this property (the letters) then
became his
property, he did nothing wrong. If you,
on the otherhand, take
Mr. Nicosia's
book, without his permission, and photocopy and sell it,
that is copyright
infringement, and last time I checked, a highly illegal
activity.
While i'm
writing, I want to make a few other comments. I subscribed to
this list because
I'm planning to write my senior thesis on the cultural
impact of the
beats and have generally found this a wonderful forum for
new ideas and
resources. I think it's great that Mr.
Nicosia is on the
list, because
even though I have not yet read his book, I know it is
well-respected
and that, he, too is considered an expert on Kerouc. I
consider myself
lucky to have access to this sort of resource.
Hopefully,
he will not
become so disgusted with the juvenile accusations and
namecalling
directed toward him that he unsubscribes.
It is ridiculous
to expect everyone to get along and 'play nicely," but i
don't think it is
out of line to expect a group of adults to treat
eachother with
respect and present arguments in a mature and analytical
rather than a
sophomoric and accusatory manner (as Jerry Cimino poited out
in an excellent
post a few days ago).
And Mr. Nicosia,
if Chaput and Anstee are at all representative of the
behavioral level
of the Sampas clan, then I don't think you have much to
worry about. A decent judge would laugh them out of the
court room.
Tracy
On Thu, 22 May 1997, Phil Chaput wrote:
> At 05:44 PM
5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
> > Antoine Maloney in Montreal writes to
ask if MEMORY BABE, my
>
>biography of Kerouac, is out of print.
> > No, it is very much in print with
University of California Press.
> > You can order it directly from
University of California Press at
>
>1-800-822-6657. It's now $20 plus
shipping and, depending on where you
> >live,
sales tax too.
> > Or, if you want a signed copy, you can
order it from me, $30
> >postpaid
(cash, check, or money order). (Allow
time for checks to clear.)
> > Thanks for your interest, Antoine.
> > Best, Gerry Nicosia
> >
> >At 10:48
AM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Dear
Phil, May 21, 1997
> >
> > To answer one of your reasonable
questions--concerning the 2,000
> >xeroxed
Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.
> >(Letters
that are now under seal because of John Sampas's threat to take
> >legal
action against the library if they show them without his permission.)
> > The reason they were xeroxes is because
by far the majority of those
> >people I
interviewed would not let me carry off their original Kerouac
>
>letters. But they let me xerox them
for my own use.
>
>
> Let me get
this straight they let you use them for your own use right?
>
> "But
they let me xerox them for my own use."GN
> Did you tell
them your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with
>
U-LOWELL Answer??????????
>
>
>
>P.S. You also better go back to law
school, or perhaps you were cutting
> >classes
the day they went over property rights.
If I pay for a xerox copy,
> >that
piece of paper belongs to me, and I can give it away or sell it or
> burn
it--whatever I please. GN
>
> So let me
get this straight if we on the beat-l list pay for a xerox copy of
> your book
"Memory Babe"or any other book, then because we paid for the copy
> we can give
it away or sell it. No wonder John Lash thinks you shouldn't be
> the literary
executor of Jan's estate.
> I propose I
will start copying Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe" tonight. I have
> a very fast
laser printer with a scanner and I'll be able to sell a copy for
> about $4.00.
It's legal Gerry says it is. Hey this could get pretty
> lucrative.
Now if I sent the book that I copied what would you charge for to
> sign a
bunch. Could I get like 100 signed for say 50 cents apiece. Then it's
> not bad
$4.50 for your book signed. But it's OK because the scholar says
> it's legal.
If you agree to sign a hundred for 50 cents and John Sampas
> signs them
for 50 cents Then it would only be $5.00. An incredible deal and
> a great
"estate keepsake" for our listeners. Any takers I'm taking orders as
> we speak.
Any body want one? Don't worry, Gerry says it's all 100% legal and
> he should
know he is a great scholar and very knowledgable in literary
> estate
matters.
> I'll do
Kerouac paperbacks for like 99 cents (there small) that shouldn't be
> a problem
right Gerry.
>
> Rod if your
listening. I do have a big buyer for that stuff we talked about.
> It's an all
cash deal and you can make some big money on that.I couldn't
> believe how
much money he was talking about.We can both walk away very happy
> E-mail me
privately- I'm Serious! Phil
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:04:54 +0000
Reply-To: davo@cjnetworks.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Ohle <davo@CJNETWORKS.COM>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
Pam:
Unfortunately I'll be in Columbus, Ohio when Charley is here.
I'll be editing
the posthumous book "Prakriti Junction" by William
Burroughs Jr. and
will be looking at the materials for that at Ohio
State library.
David O.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:06:18 +0000
Reply-To: davo@cjnetworks.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Ohle <davo@CJNETWORKS.COM>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
It occurs to me
now that there are more than one David on this list.
Sorry. D.O.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:01:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
FUCKING GROW UP
EVERYONE!! Enuff of the little
sarcastic shots
at each other. If either side can't
deal with this
respectfully take the petty cheap-shots
to private
e-mail, PLEASE!! I think it's time to
take a break from
Beat-l for awhile, phew...
Sorry, had to say
it.
Mike (no more Mr.
Nice Guy {;^>)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:19:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
The difference is
that, unlike Gerry's lawyer, the Sampas lawyer
>apparently
doesn't have a fool for a client!
>
>CHEERS, Rod
>
Dear Rod: May 22, 1997
You've GOT A BIG MOUTH, and you made
plenty of accusations, and you
haven't
substantiated any of them. In my book,
that makes you worse than a
fool, it makes
you an IGNORAMUS and a BULLSHITTER.
Your belief that people should act
secretly and duplicitously would
have made you a
good henchman for Richard Nixon. He
would have loved you.
In my book, buddy, it's an honorable
thing to speak your mind, to be
open, and to tell
the truth. You guys are now trying to
make it a virtue
that Sampas won't
talk, keeps acting in secret, and won't explain what he's
doing with the
Kerouac archive.
Sorry, that doesn't wash. Was Nixon innocent and good because he
wouldn't
talk? Or what about some mafia guy
taking the "fifth amendment"
over and over
again? Do we really believe a man's
innocent because he keeps
repeating:
"I refuse to answer on the grounds that the answer may tend to
incriminate
me"?
I said I wasn't going to talk any more
about the Kerouac Estate for
a while, to give
Sampas a chance to respond privately to me, which I still
hope he
will. I'm certainly not demanding that
he reveal his business
affairs openly. I am simply saying it's PURE BS for you to
claim Sampas is
a better man than
me because I openly tell people everything I'm doing and
why, and Sampas
remains silent.
Stop calling names, Rod, and put some
facts up here. If you've got
any at all.
And by the way, you didn't just buy two
letters from the Kerouac
archive, you
bought parts of Jack Kerouac's library too.
Remember?
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:00:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re:
MEMORY BABE
Phil Chaput
writes:
...-concerning
the 2,000
>>xeroxed
Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell....
>Did you tell
them your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with
>U-LOWELL Answer??????????
>
>
Dear Phil: May 22, 1997
You asked about my sore lips. Do your lips EVER GET SORE FROM LYING?
I sold my ENTIRE RESEARCH COLLECTION to
the University of
Massachusetts,
Lowell, for $7,500. There was a 48-PAGE
CATALOGUE of items,
of which the 2000
xerox Kerouac letters were only one item.
Compare this to
Mr. Sampas's
vaunted "8 page list" to the NY Public Library.
In my 48-page catalogue there were
almost 100 autograph (original,
not xerox)
letters from the likes of Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Burroughs,
Carolyn Cassady,
Gary Snyder, John Clellon Holmes, et al.
There were also 300 taped interviews
(NO ONE HAS EVER DUPLICATED
THIS!) with 300
people who knew Kerouac, and thousands of pages of tape
transcriptions. There were also 4 complete drafts of MEMORY
BABE, hundreds
of magazines,
articles, mini-archives of related documents given to me by
people like Edie
Parker and Stanley Twardowicz, etc. etc.
Jerry's right--you're a cartoon, and a
badly drawn one at that.
Better go check
yourself into Warner Brothers for redrafting.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:14:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Chapoo is Magoo
Dear Jerry, May 22, 1997
Although Phil claims you mispronounced
his name (and I agree that
Shapoo is closer
to the true French pronunciation) it's a fact that in
Lowell Phil's
father Joe was sometimes called Shuh-poot to rhyme with "foot"
or
"kaput."
In fact, Tony Sampas, one of Joe Chaput's
closest friends, always
called him
"Shuh-poot."
Just for the historical record.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:40:05 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
In-Reply-To:
<199705221619.JAA20525@norway.it.earthlink.net>
people involved
in this discussion (you al know who you are)
please take this
name calling & insulting & accusations & etc OFF LIST!
this forum ( in
my opinion) is for the discussion of beat literature. the
estate
conversations have degenerated from literature discussions to
insulting. please
do not discuss this here. if any of you want to
contribute or
create a conversation about lit, poetry, etc (seperate from
estate &
insults) please DO. i welcome any opinions and discussions
concerning beat
lit, but please keep the insults down boys.
i welcome any
comments.
thanks for yr
patience at my little rant
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:49:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
Rod, I welcome
the opportunity to ask you some questions.
I will ask them in
the spirit of
truly understanding your position and without namecalling and
innuendo. I hope you will do the same with your
response.
1). Why are Gerry's accusations against Sampas so
far fetched for you? He
provides
-evidence- for his accusations. So far
you have not provided one
shred of evidence
in your accusations against Gerry. All
you've said is he
is "looney
or paranoid or on a crusade". You
may or may not have used those
exact words, but
you are trying to shift the debate from the Kerouac Archives
to Gerry
Nicosia. Why?
2). Why do you think the debate should be about
Jan's income from the estate
over the years or
Paul Blake? Those are minor side issues,
having nothing to
do with the real
issue of the Archives. Why shift the
debate?
3). What evidence do you have Gerry is after
"power & glory". You know
this
is not the case
yet you persist in making Gerry the issue and not the
Archives. Why?
4). You're obviously someone who knows more about
this situation than you're
saying
publicly. What are you aware of that has
been sold both publicly and
privately? What items were sold? When?
To who? For how much? You're not
a dealer like
Jeffrey Weinberg, Rod, so you can't hide behind the cover of
client
confidentiality. If you want us to
really believe you're impartial,
tell us what you
know.
5). You keep saying it's all too complicated so
we shouldn't bother trying
to sort it out.
Why? Why don't you help us sort it out
instead of constantly
trying to shift
the issue away from the Archive's to Jan or Gerry or Paul
with personal
attacks? Why not tell us what you know
and help shine a light
on the topic instead
of trying to shift the focus?
6). Tell us what you're real motivations
are. Why are you such an apologist
for Sampas? Is it because you're embarrassed your name
has come up as
someone who
purchased parts of the archives? Are
your concerned Gerry will
win in court and
that might make it look like you purchased "stolen" property
however
legitimate you may have thought the transaction was when you did it?
What is your real motivation here, Rod? Why are you trying so desperately
to silence Nicosia?
That'll do for
now. You'll notice these are very broad
and general
questions,
Rod. A nice fat pitch for you to swing
at. If you have any real
or credible
evidence you should be able to hit a home run!
It'd be a shame
if you didn't
even step up to the plate.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:49:50 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Estate Babble
'ey all,
I find it funny. It is funny.
Two letters that refer to well over a
thousand words on
a particular topic. Topic - five
letters. Now we're
getting
somewhere.
I don't want to suggest that anyone shut
the hell up or anything like
that. I don't want to imply that this legal
wrangling spits in the face of
all the things
for which Kerouac stood. I don't even
want to hint that
there doesn't
appear to be much sense in this thread; heaven forbid! thread
makes a lot of
sense; I was just speaking with my favorite piece of thread
the other day; we
were dicussing the difference between sow and sew; thread
said something
profound about rocks; I don't remember its point, sorry;
wait, it was
something sharp and metallic; no, it was more about growth and
fertility; ah, I
can't remember.
Anyway, why don't you wait until the
courts settle this organic muck
before you
discuss it. I'm beginning to feel very
discouraged as I discern
the personalities
of those people in who's hands Kerouac's works lie and are
lying. Again, I'm
not going to tell you to shut up, grow up, settle down,
cool down or anything
to that effect / affect. You have as
much right to
write as I. I will, however, politely ask that you guys
lend your expertise
to the subject
matter of Beat literature rather than focusing solely upon
where the works
are physically and who should have them.
Perhaps I ask too
much. "Too much, what do you think?" "Too much."
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:01:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Chapoo is Magoo
At 02:32 AM 5/22/97
-0400, you wrote:
>Phil,
>
>I'm the one
who posted the original "Chaput is Kaput" note and everyone else
>simply
replied to it as you well know. Whether
Gerry ought to know better as
>to the
correct pronunciation isn't an issue at all.
And "Kaput" did seem to
>sum up your
situation. ;-)
Yes, in your mind
anyway.
>
>Thanks for
giving me another opportunity to clear things up, because after
>reading your
recent posts it makes me realize you really aren't simply Kaput,
>you're Mister
Magoo! Phil, you're a cartoon character
with these insane
>arguments you
make!
>
>You claim
Gerry broke the law by making photocopies of Jack's letters. You
>might want to
do -your- homework, Phil. It's legal to
make a copy for your
>personal
use. And you accuse Gerry of not
checking his facts!
Personal use yes,
but when you then sell those letters for cold hard cash no.
>
>Phil, how
about if you answer some questions for a change? You fire assinine
>questions out
by the dozens but don't answer any questions at all. Of course
>you're in
good company... Anstee and Weinberg aren't any good at answering
>questions
either - only making accusations.
>
>Phil, why
don't you tell us how much funding LCK! gets from John Sampas?
> This is a
very valid question that goes directly to motivation and I am sure
>you will
either dodge it or simply not answer at all.
I think it is
>important for
people to know how much support your organization gets from the
>Sampas
family. I know you'll come back (if you
come back at all) saying that
>is priveleged
information etc, just like some of your friends who can do
>nothing more
than make accusations, but there is no reason in the world why
>you can't at
least tell us a percentage. Is it
10%? 50%? 100%? Prove me
>wrong,
Phil. Show us you can speak with candor
instead of always trying to
>muddy up the
works.
>
>Phil, you've
said on more than one occassion you can't believe Stella Sampas
>would have
forged the will. I don't recall Nicosia
ever saying it was Stella
>who did it.
He has made that
SUGGESTION many times. Who is he suggesting did it?
But be that as it may what makes you think you
can judge what
>another
person is capable of doing? Do you
think the Unabombers mother
>could have
believed her son was capable of what he did?
Or Timothy
>McVeigh's? Or Son of Sam's? Now before you go popping off I'm comparing
>anyone to
mass murderers calm down and understand
-this is an analogy,
>Phil-. I'm not saying anyone is a murderer! My making an analogy does not
>mean you get
to change the subject by saying I'm saying Stella or anyone else
>is a
murderer. Understand? I'm simply saying you can't be inside anyone
>else's head
so how can you know what anyone else is really capable of doing?
>
>C'mon,
Phil... answer the questions:
>
>1). How much funding does LCK! get from the
Sampas family?
I am not a
representative of LCK but I know John Sampas pays for the
Literary prize
every year and I believe that's all. It is not a secret at
all. It is common
knowledge that he does this and no one is trying to hide
it. I believe it
even states it on the brochure for the contest.
>
>2). What other -evidence- do you have Nicosia is
wrong about anything?
>
>Nicosia tries
his best to act like Sampas in in some big conspiracy. Like
when he said only
Sampas people knew about the warrant he sold for Jan. That
warrant was
placed by Gerry in a Serendipity Books sale or catalog. I
believe it was
noticed at a major book show by Sampas' lawyer. He says no
one knew except
Sampas people but Gerry must remember when George Tobias
John's attorney
called the radio station KQED "Forum" with Mike Craszny
March,31,1995 to
ask about why if he wants all the archives to be preserved
why did they sell
the only piece of Kerouac material they had. His answer
was they needed
the money to get Paul Blake Jr. to a press conference about
the lawsuit. Well
didn't Jan make $140,000 in 1993 and $91,000 in 1994 that
same year?I don't
think Gerry will deny this. So why did she need to sell
that. Not that I
really care why she sold it. It was hers to do what she
wanted with but
it just shows the kind of deception Gerry is trying to feed
people. You can't
tell me he didn't remember Tobias calling and talking
about it on a
major radio show. So I guess it wasn't "inside information"
Jerry by your own
admission you only know one side(Gerry's side) of this
whole thing. You
have never talked to John Sampas or his representatives
have you? I am
not a representative of John Sampas. I really applaud you and
Jo Grant on your
efforts for what you think is a good cause. But there is
more than meets
the eye. The whole thing boils down to . IS THE WILL FORGED?
We may never know
but until that is proven in a court of law the last I
heard in this
country. The Sampas family is innocent until proven guilty. I
think when you
see the 8 page list of important material you will see that
the Sampas family
has put some very important material in the archive at
NYPL. Thanks,
Yours Truly,Mr Magoo
>The issue is
the archives. Let's stay focussed on
that!
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:08:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
At 11:50 AM
5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Okay, this is
an absolutely ridiculous response. Mr.
Chaput, I hope this
>was meant in
a very facetious manner, because otherwise you are making
>yourself
sound like a fool. If Mr. Nicosia was
told he could copy private
>property for
use, and the law states that this property (the letters) then
>became his
property, he did nothing wrong. If you,
on the otherhand, take
>Mr. Nicosia's
book, without his permission, and photocopy and sell it,
>that is
copyright infringement, and last time I checked, a highly illegal
>activity.
>
Of course it's a
joke. I wrote this to show how absurd the statement is. If
he copied the
letters for his own use it is legal but when he sold them for
cold cash it
becomes illegal like it would if I copied and then sold his
letters or books
for profit. Phil
>While i'm
writing, I want to make a few other comments. I subscribed to
>this list
because I'm planning to write my senior thesis on the cultural
>impact of the
beats and have generally found this a wonderful forum for
>new ideas and
resources. I think it's great that Mr.
Nicosia is on the
>list, because
even though I have not yet read his book, I know it is
>well-respected
and that, he, too is considered an expert on Kerouc. I
>consider
myself lucky to have access to this sort of resource. Hopefully,
>he will not
become so disgusted with the juvenile accusations and
>namecalling
directed toward him that he unsubscribes.
I think 99% of
what he has talked about has been estate stuff so I don't
know how he can
be helping you with your resources. I wish he would talk
about Kerouac.
> On Thu, 22
May 1997, Phil Chaput wrote:
>
>> At 05:44
PM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>
> Antoine Maloney in Montreal
writes to ask if MEMORY BABE, my
>>
>biography of Kerouac, is out of print.
>>
> No, it is very much in print
with University of California Press.
>>
> You can order it directly
from University of California Press at
>>
>1-800-822-6657. It's now $20 plus
shipping and, depending on where you
>>
>live, sales tax too.
>>
> Or, if you want a signed
copy, you can order it from me, $30
>>
>postpaid (cash, check, or money order).
(Allow time for checks to clear.)
>>
> Thanks for your interest,
Antoine.
>>
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>> >
>> >At
10:48 AM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Dear
Phil, May 21, 1997
>> >
>>
> To answer one of your
reasonable questions--concerning the 2,000
>>
>xeroxed Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.
>> >(Letters
that are now under seal because of John Sampas's threat to take
>>
>legal action against the library if they show them without his permission.)
>>
> The reason they were xeroxes
is because by far the majority of those
>>
>people I interviewed would not let me carry off their original Kerouac
>>
>letters. But they let me xerox them
for my own use.
>>
>>
>> Let me
get this straight they let you use them for your own use right?
>>
>>
"But they let me xerox them for my own use."GN
>> Did you
tell them your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with
>>
U-LOWELL Answer??????????
>>
>>
>>
>P.S. You also better go back to law
school, or perhaps you were cutting
>>
>classes the day they went over property rights. If I pay for a xerox copy,
>> >that
piece of paper belongs to me, and I can give it away or sell it or
>> burn
it--whatever I please. GN
>>
>> So let
me get this straight if we on the beat-l list pay for a xerox copy of
>> your
book "Memory Babe"or any other book, then because we paid for the
copy
>> we can
give it away or sell it. No wonder John Lash thinks you shouldn't be
>> the
literary executor of Jan's estate.
>> I
propose I will start copying Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe" tonight. I
have
>> a very
fast laser printer with a scanner and I'll be able to sell a copy for
>> about
$4.00. It's legal Gerry says it is. Hey this could get pretty
>>
lucrative. Now if I sent the book that I copied what would you charge for to
>> sign a
bunch. Could I get like 100 signed for say 50 cents apiece. Then it's
>> not bad
$4.50 for your book signed. But it's OK because the scholar says
>> it's
legal. If you agree to sign a hundred for 50 cents and John Sampas
>> signs
them for 50 cents Then it would only be $5.00. An incredible deal and
>> a great
"estate keepsake" for our listeners. Any takers I'm taking orders as
>> we
speak. Any body want one? Don't worry, Gerry says it's all 100% legal and
>> he
should know he is a great scholar and very knowledgable in literary
>> estate
matters.
>> I'll do
Kerouac paperbacks for like 99 cents (there small) that shouldn't be
>> a
problem right Gerry.
>>
>> Rod if
your listening. I do have a big buyer for that stuff we talked about.
>> It's an
all cash deal and you can make some big money on that.I couldn't
>> believe
how much money he was talking about.We can both walk away very happy
>> E-mail
me privately- I'm Serious! Phil
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:32:19 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Ginsberg Memorial in Paterson
On Sunday June 8
at 2:00 pm the Passaic County Community College Poetry
Center will
sponsor a memorial for Allen Ginsberg at the Great Falls (in
front of the
Special Events Office, McBride and Spruce Streets) where
Stefan Smith will
perform on the guitar. Readings will be
held at the
Paterson Museum,
2 Market Street. Speakers include Bob Rosenthal, Andy
Clausen, Eliot
Katz, Joel Galdernak, Herschel Silverman, Laura Boss,
Danny Shot, Jan
Barry. An open poetry reading is also
scheduled. For
further
information call 201-684-6555
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:58:25 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS (and the estate battles...)
I had a friend
visit last weekend whom I haven't seen for 8 years. It was
amazing how much
he and I have both changed over the years.
He used to love
debate; now he
loves to argue. He used to love truth
and seek it diligently;
now he seeks to
be right, always. He used to be a friend
with whom I sought to
better understand
this world; now he's the last person to whom I would take a
topic I want to
bounce off a kindred spirit. He is
antagonistic, opinionated,
and won't listen
to reason. He won't cite the sources he
quotes (indeed, he
admits he doesn't
remember where he "read" this or that), and he won't
acknowledge good
points made by the opposition.
As I said to my
wife the day after he left: "... it was like having
conversations
with Rush Limbaugh."
The point is,
however, that it didn't take my wife and I long to realize that we
wouldn't get
anywhere continuing to "debate" issues with him. So, we suggested
that we take his
kids to the park. We played on the
swings, slid down the
slides, and
monkey'ed around on the monkey bars. We
tossed a frisbee around,
chased squirrels
and woodpeckers, and laughed at the neighborhood kids who
dizzily meandered
off the merry-go-round. Next thing we
knew, we were all
friendly
again. Next thing we knew, we saw the
old Marty again, and a
friendship (at
least a portion of it) was restored.
That's the beauty
of reconciliation. That's the beauty of
shifting focus for a
few moments. Suddenly you realize that there's something
more important...
something that
will make a difference. You realize that
in the sweaty ring of
debate, you were
wrong, too.
Am I trying to
say something to those participating in the debate battle? As
they say in
Texas: "Damn straight." :)
Be at peace,
fellows. There's something better on
that side.
Respectfully,
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:09:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
In-Reply-To: <199705221601.MAA32566@ionline.net>
>FUCKING GROW
UP EVERYONE!! Enuff of the little
>sarcastic
shots at each other. If either side
can't
>deal with
this respectfully take the petty cheap-shots
>to private
e-mail, PLEASE!! I think it's time to
>take a break
from Beat-l for awhile, phew...
>
>Sorry, had to
say it.
>
>Mike (no more
Mr. Nice Guy {;^>)
hey there mike, i
couldnt agree more, and i thought i had offered my own
opinion as well,
but then when one's sense of humor is so out of whack that
my references to
1)the hatfields & 2)the mc-coys 3)the back 40 etc.
but yes
please-take it off the list, *please*! as folks appear so turned
off that any
attempt to begin a new thread become buried beneath
viturpritive
posts to and fro. it's been disenchanting to me that my return
to the list is in
midst of such an lord of the flies syndrome.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:26:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970522113648.65738B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
thank you derek.
>people
involved in this discussion (you al know who you are)
>please take
this name calling & insulting & accusations & etc OFF LIST!
>this forum (
in my opinion) is for the discussion of beat literature. the
>estate
conversations have degenerated from literature discussions to
>insulting.
please do not discuss this here. if any of you want to
>contribute or
create a conversation about lit, poetry, etc (seperate from
>estate &
insults) please DO. i welcome any opinions and discussions
>concerning
beat lit, but please keep the insults down boys.
>i welcome any
comments.
>thanks for yr
patience at my little rant
>yrs
>derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:39:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter
In-Reply-To: <33835385.1001@midusa.net>
On Wed, 21 May
1997, RACE --- wrote:
> i hope that
the trip to Chicago was rewarding. i'd
seriously intended
> to visit
Thomas Park here and Salina to witness a small celebration in
> route to the
larger ones. i thought it would be an
interesting learning
>
experience. unfortunately, sinus
infections and chemical imbalances
> found me
passed out on the couch.
>
> i was
wondering if you knew anything about the below.
So far, nobody
> has shared
any information.
>
I wanted to
respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's
thoughts on
Burroughs. David---you may want to take
a look at the section
in Dharma Bums,
where Jack visits Burroughs. Although
some of it is
presumably
fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which of course
at the time was
yet to be titled.
Then again, you
might already be privy to this information.
Jenn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:54:54 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> it's been
disenchanting to me that my return
> to the list
is in midst of such an lord of the flies syndrome.
> mc
THE ONLY WAR THAT
MATTERS IS THE WAR AGAINST THE IMAGINATION
ALL OTHER WARS
ARE SUBSUMED IN IT (DiPrima)
I agree...the
intelligent debates are worth reading, but take the
bickering
elsewhere.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:02:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter
At 03:39 PM
5/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On Wed, 21
May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
>> i hope
that the trip to Chicago was rewarding.
i'd seriously intended
>> to visit
Thomas Park here and Salina to witness a small celebration in
>> route to
the larger ones. i thought it would be
an interesting learning
>>
experience. unfortunately, sinus
infections and chemical imbalances
>> found me
passed out on the couch.
>>
>> i was
wondering if you knew anything about the below.
So far, nobody
>> has
shared any information.
>>
>I wanted to
respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's
>thoughts on
Burroughs. David---you may want to take
a look at the section
>in Dharma
Bums, where Jack visits Burroughs.
Although some of it is
>presumably
fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which of course
>at the time
was yet to be titled.
>
It had been a
long time since I have read Dharma Bums or Desolation Angels,
so I could be
wrong, but don't you mean Desolation Angels rather than the
Dharma Bums.
>Then again,
you might already be privy to this information.
>Jenn
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:10:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter
In-Reply-To: <199705222102.OAA29117@hsc.usc.edu>
On Thu, 22 May
1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> At 03:39 PM
5/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >On Wed,
21 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
> >
> >> i
hope that the trip to Chicago was rewarding.
i'd seriously intended
> >> to
visit Thomas Park here and Salina to witness a small celebration in
> >>
route to the larger ones. i thought it
would be an interesting learning
> >>
experience. unfortunately, sinus
infections and chemical imbalances
> >>
found me passed out on the couch.
> >>
> >> i
was wondering if you knew anything about the below. So far, nobody
> >> has
shared any information.
> >>
> >I wanted
to respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's
> >thoughts
on Burroughs. David---you may want to
take a look at the section
> >in
Dharma Bums, where Jack visits Burroughs.
Although some of it is
>
>presumably fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which
of course
> >at the
time was yet to be titled.
> >
>
> It had been
a long time since I have read Dharma Bums or Desolation Angels,
> so I could
be wrong, but don't you mean Desolation Angels rather than the
> Dharma Bums.
>
> I thought it
was Dharma Bums, but you may be right.
I'll have to go
home and check my
Kerouac portable. Thanks for the
correction, though.
Jenn
>
>
> >Then
again, you might already be privy to this information.
> >Jenn
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:42:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter
At 03:39 PM
5/22/97 -0500, Jennifer wrote:
>On Wed, 21
May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>> i was
wondering if you knew anything about the below.
So far, nobody
>> has
shared any information.
>>
>I wanted to
respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's
>thoughts on
Burroughs. David---you may want to take
a look at the section
>in Dharma
Bums, where Jack visits Burroughs.
Although some of it is
>presumably
fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which of course
>at the time
was yet to be titled.
I believe
somewhere in _Vanity Of Duluoz_ there are
a couple blurbs
on his feelings towards "O Will Hubbard in
the
night." I believe one of them talks
about eventually
writing a book
about him? Don't have the time to check,
sorry.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:48:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: pop quiz question 2
In a message
dated 97-05-22 10:30:30 EDT, you write:
<< >>
what is the sound of one ego clapping?
>
>a Freudian fart
>
>db
ok: now, if a freudian farts in the
wildnerness, does anyone care? >>
Not if no one
smells it.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:48:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
In a message
dated 97-05-21 16:15:20 EDT, you write:
<< HOW TO SUCK rooster - A 14
LESSON TUTORIAL
WITH TECHNIQUES FROM SOME OF THE EXPERTS.
>>
Now comes the
important part. Can someone head me in the right direction and
tell me how I
could put this important information
into more practical use?
Can someone erect a website with visual aids
as well?
Dick Hertz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:48:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Lies, Money, and Videotape
May 22, 1997
Mr. Chaput continues his lying crusade
against me.
In his latest CHAPOO IS MAGOO post, he
claims that "He [Gerald
Nicosia] made
that SUGGESTION [that Stella forged Gabrielle's will] many times."
NOW I CHALLENGE THIS GRAND LIAR,
PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE! PUT UP OR
SHUT UP, CHAPUT!
Please print the quotation from speech,
interview, article, radio
interview,
whatever, where I say that Stella forged Gabrielle Kerouac's
will. Please give proper citation, name of publication
or place of speech,
date, --if it is
oral, will you supply the tape? etc.
I have stated that there is
considerable evidence, including a crack
handwriting
analyst's report, that the will is forged.
I have never said
who forged the
will, if it is indeed forged. I have no
way of knowing
that--at least at
present.
The trouble is, Mr. Chaput can keep
posting these lies faster than I
can answer them,
since I am also answering Anstee and the other cheap-shot
artists at the
same time.
HOW'S ABOUT I THROW SOME QUESTIONS BACK
YOUR WAY?
My finances have been laid bare here by
Anstee and Chaput--how much
I make as
literary executor, how much I sold my MEMORY BABE archive for.
Jan Kerouac's
finances have also been laid bare here by Chaput, Gyensis, et
al. How about equal time for the other side?
Before I answer any more questions, I'd
like to know:
1) How much Mr. Chaput has made either
directly or indirectly --i.e.
working for
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!--from Mr. Sampas?
Has he or anyone
in his family
benefited from Mr. Sampas's patronage?
2) What is Mr. Chaput's income this
year as compared to previous years?
3) How much Mr. Anstee paid for the
various items in his Kerouac
collection,
especially those he purchased from John Sampas, and how much
those items have
gone up in value?
4) How much Mr. Anstee expects to sell
his Kerouac collection for
someday?
5) How much money Mr. Sampas earns per
year off Jack Kerouac's
royalties?
6) How much money has Mr. Sampas earned
from selling off pieces of
Jack Kerouac's
archive?
7) What financial help has Attila
Gyensis received for his DHARMA
BEAT magazine
from Mr. Sampas, including Viking/Penguin advertisements that
Mr. Sampas
arranged for Viking/Penguin to place there?
How much has Mr.
Gyensis earned
from working for Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, which we learned
is partly
financed by Mr. Sampas?
8) How much money did Ann Charters pay
for the pieces of the Kerouac
Archive which she
purchased from Mr. Sampas, and how much have they gone up
in value since
then? Were the pieces she purchased from
Mr. Sampas part of
the Charters Beat
Archive which she recently sold to the New York Public
Library?
9) Is it true Ann Charters received ONE
QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS for
her own Beat
Archive, which she recently sold to the New York Public
Library? And that Kerouac materials were a substantial
part of that archive?
10) Were there any xeroxes in Ann
Charters' archive?
11) How much money has Ann Charters
earned in total, from the jobs,
deals, etc.,
which Mr. Sampas has offered her, including editing the
PORTABLE KEROUAC,
the 2 volumes of the SELECTED LETTERS, contributing to the
KEROUAC CD-ROM,
etc.?
OKAY, guys, I'm waiting.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:55:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mick Parsons
<mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>
Subject: Re: Chapoo is Magoo
In-Reply-To: <970522023259_-731659152@emout07.mail.aol.com>
SAVE US FROM THE
BEAN COUNTERS THE PAPERS PUSHERS THE PENCIL GRINDING
MUCUS MINDED
MELEE OF DRONES AND BONES AND CLONES OF TEA TOTALERS!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know the
passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred
of the
masses; but no respect for humanity, no
false modesty, no
conspiracy, no
universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the
unspeakable
jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."
Mick Parsons
-Baudelaire
mparsons@netcrafters.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:06:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
At 04:09 PM
5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>FUCKING
GROW UP EVERYONE!! Enuff of the little
>>sarcastic
shots at each other. If either side
can't
>>deal with
this respectfully take the petty cheap-shots
>>to
private e-mail, PLEASE!! I think it's
time to
>>take a
break from Beat-l for awhile, phew...
>>
>>Sorry,
had to say it.
>>
>>Mike (no
more Mr. Nice Guy {;^>)
>
>hey there
mike, i couldnt agree more, and i thought i had offered my own
>opinion as
well, but then when one's sense of humor is so out of whack that
>my references
to 1)the hatfields & 2)the mc-coys 3)the back 40 etc.
>but yes
please-take it off the list, *please*! as folks appear so turned
>off that any
attempt to begin a new thread become buried beneath
>viturpritive
posts to and fro. it's been disenchanting to me that my return
>to the list
is in midst of such an lord of the flies syndrome.
>mc
>
>
they should maybe
check out the mean ppl suck thread and jump on that one.
remember: to get good head, give only the best!
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:09:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
Attila Gyenis
wrote:
>
> In a message
dated 97-05-21 16:15:20 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< HOW TO SUCK rooster - A 14
LESSON TUTORIAL
> WITH TECHNIQUES FROM SOME OF THE EXPERTS.
>>
>
> Now comes
the important part. Can someone head me in the right direction and
> tell me how
I could put this important information
into more practical use?
> Can someone erect a website with visual aids
as well?
>
> Dick Hertz
i'm not certain,
but i think this is a different notion of "beat
generation"
.....
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:10:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: CHAPOO IS MAGOO
Dear Phil-- May 22, 1997
Don't you know liars go to hell?
YOU KNOW FUCKING WELL I WASN'T RUNNING
AROUND THE COUNTRY XEROXING
KEROUAC LETTERS
SO I COULD SELL THEM FOR 'COLD HARD CASH'!
I worked six
years gathering
thousands and thousands of pieces of information for what is
considered
worldwide as the most detailed biography of Jack Kerouac: MEMORY
BABE--a fact even
Ann Charters has attested to. I gathered
Kerouac letters
just as I
gathered millions of other facts, to put together into the best
book I could
write. And I then sold that whole
gathering of material for a
very, very modest
cost ot the University of Lowell (Charters got a quarter
million for her
archive), with the hope that thosuands of other scholars
could make use of
it. Mr. Sampas has now frustrated that
effort.
Jan's warrant never appeared in a
Serendipity book catalogue.
Provide the
catalogue, please, date, volume no. etc.
It doesn't exist, and
you know it.
Thanks for reminding me that Tobia
called KQED radio in San
Francisco to
mention the warrant over two years ago.
I'd forgotten that,
amidst the
mountains of other bullshit I have to deal with.
But since when do you listen to San
Francisco radio, Phil? Can you
get the signal
all the way from Lowell?
By the way, Tobia never mentioned it
was Serendipity books. YOU AND
YOUR FRIENDS
CLAIM YOU'RE NOT GETTING THIS INFORMATION FROM JOHN SAMPAS.
WHERE ARE YOU
GETTING IT FROM, THEN, PHIL?
Jan Kerouac never earned $140,000 in
any year. From what I learned
from her
accountant, 1993 was her best year, but her income was somewhat
under
$120,000. But for the ten years she got
Kerouac royalties, 1986-1995,
she averaged
about $50,000 a year. Take off ten
thousand or more for taxes,
that's an average
of $40,000 a year of spendable income, not a lot for
SOMEONE WHO WAS ON
LIFE SUPPORT FOR FIVE OF THOSE YEARS.
BY THE WAY, IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING THIS
STUFF FROM SAMPAS, JUST WHERE
ARE YOU GETTING
FACTS ON JAN'S INCOME??? SHE DIDN'T GIVE THAT STUFF OUT, AND
THE IRS CONSIDERS
IT CONFIDENTIAL AND WILL NOT RELEASE IT WITHOUT PERMISSION.
I await some honest answers.
P.S.
WHY DON'T YOU JUST POST THIS MAGIC 8-PAGE LIST, if it's so
germane to your
argument?
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:04:56 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To:
<199705222148.OAA12515@norway.it.earthlink.net>
<big snip>
I swore I would
not respond to any of these posts, but regardless of how
many people
complain, it doesn't seem to do much good.
Listen up to all
involved in the Estate Fight: This has become nothing but
drag down dirty
fight between those involved. At this point (and for the
last few weeks)
any mail from the main contributors in this "fight" has
been
automatically delted. I (and I assume others as well) really do not
care the name
calling, the back biting, and all the other related
information that
has been given over the list.
I have in the
last few weeks aquired a new email address, which I was
slowly moving the
other listservs over to. This one, I have not for the
very reason that
it is not UNCOMMON for me boot up my mail after a short
period (couple of
hours) to find anywhere from 25+ new
messages from this
list and MAJORITY
of them relating to the Estate saga. Its getting to be
annoying,
tiresome as well as frustrating that those involved will not and
have refused to
take it off list.
This list in part
has slowly become nothing but a sewing circle with people
whining,
gossiping and bickering about who fucked who, who backstabbed who,
and etc etc etc.
Grow up. Majority of the people on this list are acting
like whiny
spoiled brats and not adults. This list is 'suppossedly' to be
about beat
LITERATURE, it is not about Chaput or Nicosia or whomever else
is fighting this
estate thing. From my understanding, its been going on for
a long time, and
will continue to go on regardless if this list is here or
not. We all have
right in voicing our opions on this list because it is
"us"
the listee's that make this list happen.
And from the respones that
are coming
through about how many people are getting sick and tired of the
bitching and the
whining, you would THINK that those involved would get the
hint and move it
off list or better yet, start your own damn listserv where
those who care
can fight it out and waste all the bandwidth they want.
I am ashamed to
say that this list has deterioted to nothing but a showing
of whose has a
bigger ego, and for that alone, all those involved should be
ashamed.
</rant off>
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:12:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mick Parsons
<mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>
Subject: Re: pop quiz
In-Reply-To: <l03020900afa9a9b2821b@[206.25.67.125]>
THE SOUND OF
DRONES AND BONES AND CLONES OF TEA TOTALERS.....
mick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know the
passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred
of the
masses; but no respect for humanity, no
false modesty, no
conspiracy, no
universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the
unspeakable
jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."
Mick Parsons
-Baudelaire
mparsons@netcrafters.com
On Thu, 22 May
1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
> what is the
sound of one ego clapping?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:13:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mick Parsons
<mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>
Subject: Re: pop quiz question 2
In-Reply-To: <l03020900afa9bb62a9ca@[206.25.67.104]>
only his
mother...
mick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know the
passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred
of the
masses; but no respect for humanity, no
false modesty, no
conspiracy, no
universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the
unspeakable
jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."
Mick Parsons
-Baudelaire
mparsons@netcrafters.com
On Thu, 22 May
1997, Marie Countryman wrote:
> >Marie
Countryman wrote:
> >>
> >>
what is the sound of one ego clapping?
> >
> >a Freudian
fart
> >
> >db
>
> ok: now, if
a freudian farts in the wildnerness, does anyone care?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:18:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: K Sands Boehmer
<ksbedit@SHORE.NET>
Subject: unsubscribe
Bill,
I tried to
unsubscribe to the Beat list yesterday.
:-(
I just started a
new job this week and can't be distracted.
:-(
I Thought I
followed the directions in your introductory memo but I guess I
did it
incorrectly.
Could you unsub
me for a while?
Kath
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:11:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
In-Reply-To: <338356CF.6D73@sunflower.com>
At 03:10 PM
5/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Lisa,
>you are a
treasure.
>p
>
>
thank you p ;)
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:13:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970522162750.1fd78a4e@mail.worldonline.nl>
At 04:28 PM
5/22/97 +0200, you wrote:
>At 07:49 AM
5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>>
Premise #1 Swallowing is a basic
biological process.
>>>
Premise #2 Nice People swallow
>>>
Therefore Niceness is a basic
biological process for people.
>>>
>>> the
same thinking applies somewhat to other notions such as "inhaling"!!
>>
>>David,
>>I like
this logic. "Nice people do"
works for me. They certainly
>>inhale. This suggests logical problems for mc's
"mean people suck"
>>since
sucking is also basic biological behavior and therefore nice?
>
>premise
#1 People need to swallow in order to
feed themselves
>premise
#2 Sucking is merely non-essential
(biological) behavior
>premise
#4 Nice people swallow
>premise
#5 Mean people suck
>therefore Niceness is necessary
>and Meanness is not
>
>-Paul C.
>
>
erm, premise #2
is wrong, how would a baby get milk from a bottle or its
mother if it was
non-essetial? It can't frightly feed itself with a
fork/spoon?
ttfn.
lisa
(and if premise 2
is wrong, that makes all the other premises wrong as
well, as niceness
is not necessary ;)
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:15:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
In-Reply-To:
<970522174651_270536955@emout10.mail.aol.com>
At 05:48 PM
5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-21 16:15:20 EDT, you write:
>
><< HOW TO SUCK rooster - A 14
LESSON TUTORIAL
> WITH
TECHNIQUES FROM SOME OF THE EXPERTS. >>
>
>Now comes the
important part. Can someone head me in the right direction and
>tell me how I
could put this important information
into more practical use?
> Can someone erect a website with visual aids
as well?
>
>Dick Hertz
>
>
ummm..give me enough
money i can show you anything ;>
but you better
get a bunch of bananas though as well ;)
ttfn. lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:32:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: pop quiz question 2
In-Reply-To:
<970522174652_438926203@emout11.mail.aol.com>
Attila, you get
an A+ and a seat upwind in the classroom in the sky
><<
>> what is the sound of one ego clapping?
> >
> >a
Freudian fart
> >
> >db
>
> ok: now, if
a freudian farts in the wildnerness, does anyone care? >>
>
>Not if no one
smells it.
@@@@@@
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:36:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Truce-Peace
It is obvious by
Lisa and Marie's and others posts that people are sick to
death of this
estate talk. I have been on the list for a few years now and
have enjoyed
talking about Kerouac. It is hard to keep quite when you know
something is
being said that isn't right. Especially for a hot-tempered
Frenchman like
myself. But apparently people have had enough. I am willing
to call it quits
about the estate stuff if everyone else will. Hell even if
they don't stop.
I WILL. Let's talk KEROUAC like the good old days. Let's
end it all right
here and now. No more jabs after the bell rings.Phil Chaput
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:41:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: a calm request
Comments: To:
Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199705222148.OAA12515@norway.it.earthlink.net>
mr nicosia
i am very pleased
that you are on beat-L. personally i think that a man of
yr scholarship on
the topic of beat literature could be a great thing in a
small forum like
beat-L.
if the
conversations were to drift toward lit. i think that you (and all
members of
beat-L) would
really have a
chance to shine & that we would all benefit from the quiet &
calm discussions
of literature, etc.
please, i ask you
- please - either ignore those posts that bother you by
making claims or
accusations (or whatever) by not responding or please do
not respond to
them in this
forum, rather do so privately via e-mail or whatever place
you see fit.
i think that
beat-L is suffering.
as sane people im
sure we can all meet regardless of political sway & talk
*literature*
around this "cyber" table.
I ask you only
what i try to deliver myself & what i would ask from all
here.
i ask all people
on this list to read and consider this message whether yr
name is gerry
nicosia or phil chaput or jerry cimino or derek beaulieu or
whatever. just
please consider this.
i think i speak
for many members of this forum.
thank you for yr
time & patience
yours
derek beaulieu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:49:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: For Gerry and friends
Everyone's tried
to be nice about this estate bullshit. I
can't be polite
anymore. Just shut the fuck up. For fuck's sake, shut the fuckin fuck up
you stupid fuckin
fucks. Form a splinter list so you can
continue you're
childish little
rants. You're stifling those with
interesting things to
say. Your:
You're a liar. No, you're a
liar. Liar. Prove it.
Where's
the
evidence. It's all tiresome. I'd like to challenge... you and your
friends to shut
the fuck up. I'll give you two days to
finish your little
squabble. After that, I'm bringing out the big fuckin
guns. Peace.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:11:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mitchell Smith
<WordKicks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat Books Garage Sale III
Dear Howard:
Please Put me on
your list for the Beat list--not at this address tho, at
Turtl Isle (also
on aol).
Mitchell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:52:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: [Fwd: Hello]
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------4068926300A2EC7DBA324E28
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
I think that I
sent this to the wrong address. I hope
this is right.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
--------------4068926300A2EC7DBA324E28
Content-Type:
message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline
Message-ID:
<3384DA5C.E5EFE677@scsn.net>
Date: Thu, 22 May
1997 19:44:28 -0400
From: "R.
Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
X-Mailer: Mozilla
4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Subject: Hello
X-Priority: 3
(Normal)
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi folks:
I am just signed
on to the list. Is there any place I can
go to see
archives of the
list.
I am a Jack
Kerouac fan and look forward to reading the list.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
--------------4068926300A2EC7DBA324E28--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:52:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: For Gerry and friends
At 03:49 PM
5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Everyone's
tried to be nice about this estate bullshit.
I can't be polite
>anymore. Just shut the fuck up. For fuck's sake, shut the fuckin fuck up
>you stupid
fuckin fucks. Form a splinter list so
you can continue you're
>childish
little rants. You're stifling those with
interesting things to
>say. Your:
You're a liar. No, you're a
liar. Liar. Prove it.
Where's
>the
evidence. It's all tiresome. I'd like to challenge... you and your
>friends to
shut the fuck up. I'll give you two days
to finish your little
>squabble. After that, I'm bringing out the big fuckin
guns. Peace.
>
> James M.
>
>
I'd much rather
hear these guys slug it out verbally than your impolite
rantings.
James, do us a
favor and simply don't read their fighting.
I like to read it.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:57:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: a calm request
I agree and
disagree. I agree that the drift toward
literature would be great.
But I cannot
agree that it is better on private e-mail.
I like to read
this. It is interesting in amny
multifaceted ways.
I think threads
like fudge and suck and swallow are collosal bores and great
waste of this
list,
that's just my
opinion
but I do not ask
that they take it to email
read and let
read, write and let write
I do not think
that their posts make the list suffer.
I think other
threads make it suffer but others might like those threads
At 04:41 PM
5/22/97 -0600, you wrote:
>mr nicosia
>i am very
pleased that you are on beat-L. personally i think that a man of
>yr scholarship
on the topic of beat literature could be a great thing in a
>small forum
like beat-L.
>if the
conversations were to drift toward lit. i think that you (and all
>members of
beat-L) would
>really have a
chance to shine & that we would all benefit from the quiet &
>calm
discussions of literature, etc.
>please, i ask
you - please - either ignore those posts that bother you by
>making claims
or accusations (or whatever) by not responding or please do
>not respond
to
>them in this
forum, rather do so privately via e-mail or whatever place
>you see fit.
>i think that
beat-L is suffering.
>as sane
people im sure we can all meet regardless of political sway & talk
>*literature*
around this "cyber" table.
>I ask you
only what i try to deliver myself & what i would ask from all
>here.
>i ask all
people on this list to read and consider this message whether yr
>name is gerry
nicosia or phil chaput or jerry cimino or derek beaulieu or
>whatever.
just please consider this.
>i think i
speak for many members of this forum.
>thank you for
yr time & patience
>yours
>derek
beaulieu
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:01:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Time magazine-Kerouac
Time magazine
recently did a special edition mostly about art in the U.S.
with short
articles and beautiful color photos of major American works of
art. A very
interesting read. In the middle was a time-line format with
photos of major
events in American history. It listed
three books among the
major events of
American history one was Melville's "Moby Dick" the other
Mark Twain's
"The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" and last but not least
(drum roll) Jack
Kerouac's "On the Road". Now that's what I call
R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:05:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
I 've been
finding much of the estate dialogue fascinating and would not
want it taken
private e-mail. Some of it certainly is deletable, but so
much more is
informative and interesting.
Michael
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:18:38 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
At 03:04 PM
5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>This list is
'suppossedly' to be
>about beat
LITERATURE, it is not about Chaput or Nicosia or whomever else
>is fighting
this estate thing.
Hmm, funny
statement coming from someone who posted this
_________________________________
"erm,
premise #2 is wrong, how would a baby get milk from a bottle or its
mother if it was
non-essetial? It can't frightly feed itself with a
fork/spoon?
ttfn.
lisa
(and if premise 2
is wrong, that makes all the other premises wrong as
well, as niceness
is not necessary ;)"
______________________________________-
In another
thread.
Nothing personal,
and no complaints about this other swallowing thread, but
it seems that the
rants and gossip you complain about is more related to
beat stuff than
this swallowing thread.
You see what I
mean?
Take care, no
animosity, just observation and comment.
I like reading
the estate battle posts.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:21:27 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To: <199705222357.QAA26972@hsc.usc.edu>
timothy and co.
what i tried to
emphasize was the heated insulting nature of so many
emails that is
injuring the community spirit that can be found around this
"cyber
table". insulting name calling and a general accusationary tone can
only do harm to a
community (*who ever* writes it). i had meant that
messages that
offend or "bother" people in whatever way should not be
replied to in
this way in a public forum - if you want to get finger
pointing and name
calling then move back & settle yr disputes alone - when
you can speak
calmly about the issues THEN come back and share yr thoughts
with the rest of
us. what do any of us gain from being exposed to some of
the anger &
almost violent sturm und drang that takes place around these
parts almost
daily. please gentlemen & ladies
relax, take a breath,
gather yr
thoughts and lets TALK/WRITE/COMPOSE/LAUGH together, not fight.
come on folks
thats what i
meant.
derek beaulieu
On Thu, 22 May
1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> I agree and
disagree. I agree that the drift toward
literature would be
great.
> But I cannot
agree that it is better on private e-mail.
> I like to
read this. It is interesting in amny
multifaceted ways.
> I think
threads like fudge and suck and swallow are collosal bores and great
> waste of
this list,
> that's just
my opinion
> but I do not
ask that they take it to email
> read and let
read, write and let write
> I do not
think that their posts make the list suffer.
> I think
other threads make it suffer but others might like those threads
>
> At 04:41 PM
5/22/97 -0600, you wrote:
> >mr
nicosia
> >i am
very pleased that you are on beat-L. personally i think that a man of
> >yr
scholarship on the topic of beat literature could be a great thing in a
> >small
forum like beat-L.
> >if the
conversations were to drift toward lit. i think that you (and all
> >members
of beat-L) would
> >really
have a chance to shine & that we would all benefit from the quiet &
> >calm
discussions of literature, etc.
> >please,
i ask you - please - either ignore those posts that bother you by
> >making
claims or accusations (or whatever) by not responding or please do
> >not
respond to
> >them in
this forum, rather do so privately via e-mail or whatever place
> >you see
fit.
> >i think that
beat-L is suffering.
> >as sane
people im sure we can all meet regardless of political sway & talk
>
>*literature* around this "cyber" table.
> >I ask
you only what i try to deliver myself & what i would ask from all
> >here.
> >i ask
all people on this list to read and consider this message whether yr
> >name is
gerry nicosia or phil chaput or jerry cimino or derek beaulieu or
>
>whatever. just please consider this.
> >i think
i speak for many members of this forum.
> >thank
you for yr time & patience
> >yours
> >derek
beaulieu
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:25:42 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To: <199705230018.RAA29807@hsc.usc.edu>
beat-L members
dont you think
taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be
found lately may
be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the
other posts? one
group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting very
heated &
upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in my
opinion) until
the conversations relax.
so much heat
around these parts
makes it a little
hard to want to be part of the soup
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:47:00 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks
I thought Brad
Parker was one of the stops on the Monopoly game...
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:52:01 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: A Retraction of Sorts
The estate
controversy _could_ be interesting if people were willing to
periodically
report any progress instead of assissinating (sp?) the
character of
those involved, which is the way it has boiled down. I know
that my last
posting was harsh but the synopsis of this list I received
before
subscribing suggested that literature, not court cases, would be the
topic of
discussion.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:56:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
Why did Mr.
Sampas cross the road?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:57:50 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
...to sell
another (single) Kerouac item!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:02:49 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
MORE OXY THAN
MORON wrote:
>
> Why did Mr.
Sampas cross the road?
let's see .......
hmm...
to recruit
another prospective conspirator?????
to catch a
prospective buyer?????
to negotiate with
the NYPL?????
because it wasn't
there ?????
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:29:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.93.970522181440.25850B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
"cyber
table"
insulting name
calling
and a general
accusationary tone
messages that
offend
or
"bother" people
finger pointing
and name calling
move back &
settle yr
disputes alone
you can speak
calmly about the issues
please gentlemen
& ladies
relax,
take a breath,
gather yr
thoughts
and lets TALK
together
WRITE together
COMPOSE together
LAUGH together,
not fight.
come on folks
thats what i
meant.
derek beaulieu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:51:02 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request - and unending
conversation
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
> "cyber
table"
neither round nor
square and somewhere
between Merlin's
beard
and a 23 year old
waitress at a
cafe
near
Lexington
>
> insulting
name calling
like
your momma
and my daddy
didn't
and this
and that
and my redwagon
can
kick your ass
in a pinewood
derby
down
desolation peak
> and a
general accusationary tone
>
> messages
that offend
> or
"bother" people
or raise the hair
on the
back of our
collective cybernecks
at the cybertable
with
a cyber menu and
words spewed out
sunny-side up
at dawn
>
> finger
pointing
> and name
calling
the fans jeer the
villains
who duel
from opposite
edges of
a double-edged
cabbage
>
> move back
&
> settle yr
disputes alone
but remember
that doing so
can bring on
blindness
>
> you can
speak calmly about the issues
issues is a
euphemism
for words on
subjects
that are best
used
as
toilet paper
in the woods
>
> please
gentlemen & ladies
start your
engines
but hold
the blows to body
slams
and poking eyes
and leave each
other's
characters
and the
characters
of those not at
the
cyber table
and the cartoon
characters
that dream of
such
feuds in
toonsville
visions
out of the
exchanges
>
> relax,
> take a
breath,
> gather yr
thoughts
then realize that
breathing
beats
bitching
and a wooden
nickel
buys a
plate of
sauerkraut at the
diner
in West Dodge
>
> and lets
TALK together
> WRITE
together
> COMPOSE
together
> LAUGH
together,
> not fight.
Mr. Rogers joins
Pee Wee Hermann
in a friendly
embrace
with the ghost
of Captain
Kangaroo
reminding Mr.
Green Jeans
that
kindness and
playful
friendship
is the path to
enlightenment
>
> come on
folks
let's join in a
good round
of row row row
your boat
and
tequila shots
for all at the
cyber-table
on the
cyber-house
>
> thats what i
meant.
that's what i
meant to mean
i think
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:07:53 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To: <199705230018.RAA29807@hsc.usc.edu>
At 05:18 PM
5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At 03:04 PM
5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>This list
is 'suppossedly' to be
>>about
beat LITERATURE, it is not about Chaput or Nicosia or whomever else
>>is
fighting this estate thing.
>
>Hmm, funny
statement coming from someone who posted this
>_________________________________
>"erm,
premise #2 is wrong, how would a baby get milk from a bottle or its
>mother if it
was non-essetial? It can't frightly feed itself with a
>fork/spoon?
>
>ttfn.
>
>lisa
>
>(and if
premise 2 is wrong, that makes all the other premises wrong as
>well, as
niceness is not necessary ;)"
>______________________________________-
>
>
>In another
thread.
>
>Nothing personal,
and no complaints about this other swallowing thread, but
>it seems that
the rants and gossip you complain about is more related to
>beat stuff
than this swallowing thread.
>
>You see what
I mean?
>
>Take care, no
animosity, just observation and comment.
>
>I like
reading the estate battle posts.
>
Ummm..Im sorry,
but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably
over 100k of crap
about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed
who, and who
believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you
liek to read the
posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems
to disagree with
you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests
to move all
estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the
rest of us who
use email for other then gossip mills can actually
participate in
conversations that can be enjoyed by all.
And my little
piece that I sent to the list on how to give head is more
beat then
fighting over whose a damn liar and who should be sued.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:27:07 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Lisa M. Rabey
wrote:
>
> And my
little piece that I sent to the list on how to give head is more
> beat then
fighting over whose a damn liar and who should be sued.
I believe this is
finally something which can be called TRUTH.
david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:29:46 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: pop quiz
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> what is the
sound of one ego clapping?
or the sound of
an ego with the clap?
a elf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:35:58 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 May 1997 18:21:27 -0600
from
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Derek's point is
well taken. Let's all try to discuss our
issues with civility
, at least
publicly. If you want to insult someone
personally, take it off the
list.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:57:35 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> beat-L members
> dont you
think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be
> found lately
may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the
> other posts?
one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting very
> heated &
upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in my
> opinion)
until the conversations relax.
> so much heat
around these parts
> makes it a
little hard to want to be part of the soup
> yrs
> derek
Derek,
That's my
take. The estate posts are producing all
heat and no light. I
love a good
fight, but this one drones on forever.
The worst period of
the list in my 1
1/2 years. The RW war is nothing along side this one.
Personally I
would rather talk about blowjobs
Pull my daisy, or
whatever's handy
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:07:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Time magazine-Kerouac ....and Life
Phil,
Thanks for the tip-off about the Time
Magazine article. Do you know
what the date of
the issue was? Also, someone else
mentioned articles that
appeared in Life
magazine during the fifties about the Beats. If that person
recognizes
themselves I'd like a tip to the date/writer of the article.
Specifically, I
wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written
by Loudon
Wainwright II.
Many thanks.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:29:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Beat List T-Shirt Update
Dear Beat-L
members:
I spoke with S.
Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready
next week.
I will post the
artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web
site
(still under
construction) but I'll give you all the temporary address when I
get the artwork
up.
The shirt should
be ready to ship within the month so ordering information,
price, etc. will
be posted on the list as well...
If you are new to
the list and want to know more about the Beat-L Tshirt
designed by
Subterranean artist, S. Clay Wilson, Here's the story:
Back just before
Easter 1997, a discussion came up on the Beat-L about the
famous 1987
"River City Reunion" that took place in Lawrence,Kansas. Beat
writers,
musicians, artists and others came to the Univ of Kansas, Lawrence
to
rap, play,
perform and discuss culture in America...S. Clay Wilson designed a
great logo for
the event that was used on posters, programs, and Tshirts.
Meanwhile, S.
Clay Wilson was lurking on the Beat-L, an Easter weekend guest
of
Beat/Hippie/Radical Conservative Poet Charlie Plymell, who, with wife,
Pam, runs
Cherry Valley
Editions, tres cool avant-garde publishing company in upstate
NY.
Wilson got on the
list and said hello....I suggested that Wilson draw a Beat
ListT-shirt for
us...I offered on behalf of Water Row Books as sponsor to put
up the bread to
get the shirt done and then sell them to Beat-L members at
cost...So here's
where we are now - the artwork will be finished in a few
days hopefully
and I'll let everyone know the cost and other details. The
shirt can be
checked out then at the new Water Row Books web site (address to
follow) -
By the way, S.
Clay Wilson found a box of original River City Reunion posters
and programs from
the 1987 event. He signed them all and sent them to me here
at Water Row. The
poster is printed on a nice heavy stock and is approx. 16"
x 20" -
a perfect size to
frame. It features Wilson's great logo of a cowpoke-type
guy dancing
around with another Beat poet-type who looks alot like Allen
Ginsberg. Great
colorful
Wilson artwork.
The poster also lists the dates for the event as well as the
participants that
included Burroughs, Ginsberg, Robert Frank, Jim Carroll,
Husker Du, many
many more....
The River City
Reunion program also features the logo in full color plus the
detailed
schedule of
events, bios of each participant, event location, etc. Wilson
also signed each
program front cover...
For the very
small price of $25.00, you can get a set of one signed poster
and one signed
program. If you only want the poster or program by itself, the
price is $15.00
for the one item. The programs are in near mint condition and
the posters are
in very fine condition. The posters have a little corner wear
or wrinkling from
age (ten years old already!), For Beat-L members, I'll pay
the shipping.
MC/Visa accepted.
Satisfaction guaranteed. Both posters and programs now in
stock...Offer
good only while limited supply lasts....
Thanks -
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Books
PO Box 438
Sudbury MA 01776
Tel 508-485-8515
Fax 508-229-0885
EMail
Waterrow@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:51:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: the list
This is not to
appease the forces to be but to appease you and me.... :)
(Provided
courtesy of John Sampas, Literary Executor of the Estate of John
and Stella
Kerouac and Phil Chaput who is not an employee of Mr. John
Sampas, just a
friend) and my wife who let me stay on the computer this long
to type this long
ass list... again :)
(a more complete
list including dates of deposit will be published in The
Kerouac Quarterly
(Vol. I, No. 2) available soon)
Here goes....
Maggie Cassidy
(unused section), 45-page hoograph ms.
The Happy Truth
10-page holograph ms.: plus Ecstacy of Life and Death, 2
1/2-page
holograph ms.; plus The Blessedness Surely to be Believed, 7-page
holograph ms. --
together in 1 notebook.
Buddha Tells Us
or Wake Up. 50 - page holograph ms.; plus The Essential
Mind. 81-page
holograph ms. -- together in 1 notebook.
Some of the
Dharma. 1332-page holograph ms. in 11 notebooks; plus 385-page
typescript.
5 JK letters: 2
page letter to his mother, dated March 1943; 1-page TLS to
Sebastian Sampas,
dated 1943; 1-page TLS (with holograph postscript) to his
sister, Nin,
dated 1947; 2-page TLS (with holograph notes to Tal, Mr. Win,
Miss James et al,
dated August 1952; 2-page letter to the editors of Time
magazine, dated
1961.
Moore of Myself.
A Sonnet. 2-page holograph ms. dated 1943.
Passing Through.
615 page holograph ms. in 10 notebooks.
Mexico City
Blues. 451-page holograph ms. in 5 notebooks; plus 121-page
typescript.
Included in the notebooks are the following:
151 pages of material for Tristessa,
the complete first book.
13-page fragment entitled
"Statue of Christ" from Lonesome Traveler.
1-page letter to J.C. Holmes.
1-page prose note.
1/2-page prose note entitled
"Hunan Road Sacrifice."
2-page intro. to mexico City Blues
differing from the published
version.
3 1/2 page section from Book of
Dreams.
1-page section from Book of Dreams.
1-page essay entitled, "Statue
of saint Joseph."
1-page work on Dharma.
1-page section from Some of the
Dharma.
16-page essay entitled, "Break
on the Railroad."
1-page note on Buddhism.
5-page essay on the "Practice of
Dhyana."
1-page essay on the Tao.
"More Mexico
City Blues, Washington DC Blues. Poems 1957." Original
notebook, approx.
55 pages.
"Poems All
Sizes..." manuscript notebook, approx. 93 pages.
"San
Francisco Blues." 73-page typescript.
Sebastian Sampas
to Jack Kerouac. 12 ALS, 60 pages (including 1page of
typescript),
dated 1940 to 1941.
Gabrielle Kerouac
to JK. 33 ALS, 125 pages (dated 1942 - '43 in Kerouac's hand).
Mary Carney to
JK. 17 ALS, 53 pages, no date (3 letters are dated 1954 in
Keoruac's hand).
One letter with a pencil notation by Kerouac.
JK. 1-page pencil
drawing in form of a letter.
(I will
abbreviate from hereon until noted later)
10 letters from
JK to Sebastian Sampas.
11 postcards from
JK to S. Sampas
16 letters from
Jack kerouac to Stella Sampas
17 postcards from
JK to Stella Sampas
(here is complete
listing as indicated to me)
Book of Dreams
1955-page holograph in 11 notebooks (plus 2 loose pages)
Notes for Dr.Sax,
On the Road, The History of Bop; plus Maggie Cassidy,
approx. 250-page
holograph manuscript. -- together in 4 notebooks.
"Benzedrine
Vision. Mexico City 1952, Mexico Thieves Markey. Memoirs of a
Bebopper."
84-page holograph ms. in 1 notebook.
Tics. 50 page
holograph ms. in 1 notebook.
Beat Generation.
A Play. Acts I and II. 146-page holograph ms. in 1
notebook; plus
5-page typescript.
Book of Sketches.
Approx. 1200-page holograph ms. in 15 notebooks.
Satori In Paris.
300-page holograph ms. in 3 spiral notebooks; plus 5
working notebooks
(1961-1965)containing approx. 430 pages of holgraph ms.
(abbreviated here
from list)
8 misc. items of
Kerouac material (letters to friends, a poem, notes a
"dialogue between
three friends")
16 different
items of misc. material related to Jack (letters from Gabrielle
to stella,
letters from Helen Mansfield to Mrs. Sampas, Sebastian Sampas
letters to
Kerouac etc.)
Now, keep in
mind, all the smaller items when explained in detail takes up
to 8-pages. More
deposits to the Berg collection are forthcoming. This list
is evidence that
the estate selling items off piecemeal are unsubstantiated
rumors. Those
items sold lend no significance to Kerouac scholarship. All of
the detractors of
the Kerouac Estate, if they are man enough with integrity
should apologize
to John Sampas for making such unfounded claims. I hope
this list helps.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:39:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
RACE --- wrote:
> MORE OXY
THAN MORON wrote:
> >
> > Why did
Mr. Sampas cross the road?
>
> let's see
....... hmm...
>
> to recruit
another prospective conspirator?????
>
> to catch a
prospective buyer?????
>
> to negotiate
with the NYPL?????
>
> because it
wasn't there ?????
Yo, Race,
I finally made it
here. But the first two posts are about
the estate
and yours about
Sampras. Please back channel me and let
me know what is
up. Can I ask you about the Celtics here? ;-)
Peace,
Bentz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:44:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Derek A. Beaulieu
wrote:
>
> beat-L
members
> dont you
think taht the absurdity of the swallow & etc posts that can be
> found lately
may be a direct respose to some of the heated nature of the
> other posts?
one group of authors is fighting & insulting & getting very
> heated &
upset... the other part is simply joking around & relaxing (in my
> opinion)
until the conversations relax.
> so much heat
around these parts
> makes it a
little hard to want to be part of the soup
> yrs
> derek
oh of course your right, but i didn't
understand and took the
directions to
heart and now have my own beat following.
patricia, whoes
credentials stand up
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:48:31 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Wow!
Like man,
wow! I just subscribed and almost all
the first posts I
receive, except
the tee shirt post, thanks for that one, are about
hostility over
what? Is there a place that archives
these posts so that
I can catch up on
this.
What about a
thread?
Has this list
explored the ancestors to the beats? I
see a "line" from
Thoreau (sp) vs
Emerson; Wolfe vs ????, Kerouac vs Vidal, Dylan vs
anyone, etc. There seems to be a thread that runs through
"beat" side
of literature
that is inherited into and by working class poets. Has
anyone studied or
considered who are its predecessors.
Like Gertrude
Stein ? the Bohemians? I am just curious.
Peace,
Bentz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:50:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE
MORE OXY THAN
MORON wrote:
> ...to sell
another (single) Kerouac item!
I wish I wasn't so curious, but what is all
this about?
Peace,
Bentz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:21:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
>I am ashamed
to say that this list has deterioted to nothing but a showing
>of whose has
a bigger ego, and for that alone, all those involved should be
>ashamed.
>>--
>
>Lisa M. Rabey
>Internet and
Computer Consultant
>San
Francisco, California
>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>**************************************
>General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>
>
Lisa, May 22, 1997
I appreciate what all of you are
saying, but it is not your
professionalism
that is under attack here--it is mine.
I spend six years working my ass off to
write what William S.
Burroughs called
"the best of the many books about Jack Kerouac's life and
work," and I
am accused of running around the country making xeroxes of
Kerouac letters
so I can sell them for "cold, hard cash."
That stuff is pretty hard to take. And the people who are making
those accusations
know full well how bogus they are. Nor
have they spent
the years
writing, teaching, and lecturing about Kerouac, as I have (Mr.
Anstee has
self-published a few pieces and given a talk or two; Mr. Chaput
has done none of
the above).
They have deliberately muddied the
water, so that the real
discussion of
preserving Jack Kerouac's literary archive would get off
point, and they
have done their best to see that it has never gotten back on
point. This is the dirtiest kind of play, and if we
were on the basketball
court, these guys
would all have been thrown out on technical fouls two
weeks ago.
Unfortunately, we don't have any
trained literary refs around here.
Cimino has tried,
but they've elbowed and head-butted him to helplessness too.
I expect the dirty play to continue,
but I'm agreeing to back off,
since that's what
the majority appears to want.
The only bad taste I have left is that
the other guys have
"won"--they
got what they wanted, which was to kill an honest discussion of
what should be
done with Jack Kerouac's papers. They
have never allowed
such a discussion
to take place, ANYWHERE. When Jan
Kerouac asked for five
minutes to talk
about it at NYU, the year before she died, they dragged her
out with police.
They can't use police here, just
threats of lawsuits and all this
other shit. So once again truth is the first casualty.
Peace everyone, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:02:31 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> RACE ---
wrote:
>
> > MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
> > >
> > >
Why did Mr. Sampas cross the road?
> >
> > let's
see ....... hmm...
> >
> > to
recruit another prospective conspirator?????
> >
> > to
catch a prospective buyer?????
> >
> > to
negotiate with the NYPL?????
> >
> > because
it wasn't there ?????
>
> Yo, Race,
>
> I finally
made it here. But the first two posts
are about the estate
> and yours
about Sampras. Please back channel me
and let me know what is
> up. Can I ask you about the Celtics here? ;-)
>
> Peace,
>
> Bentz
Howdy and
welcome.
i can try and dig
around and send you some "choice" excerpts from the
GREAT ESTATE
KONTROVERSY backchannel but it could be next week and if i
forget remind me
... imagine a court battle over Bill Russell's old
shoes and
Auerbach's cigar butts with a literary flair and you'll have
the gist of it.
we better not
talk to much Celtics over here. i have
most of that list
on the
auto-delete function right now until after draft date only you
and Dorine P.
don't get nuked right now.
otherwise my
suggestion would be to lurk a bit and if something seems
especially
incomprehensible feel free to backchannel me.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:58:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update
Jeffrey Weinberg
wrote:
>
> Dear Beat-L
members:
>
> I spoke with
S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready
> next week.
> I will post
the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web
> site
> (still under
construction) but I'll give you all the temporary address when I
> get the
artwork up.
>
> The shirt
should be ready to ship within the month so ordering information,
> price, etc.
will be posted on the list as well...
>
> If you are
new to the list and want to know more about the Beat-L Tshirt
> designed by
Subterranean artist, S. Clay Wilson, Here's the story:
>
> Back just
before Easter 1997, a discussion came up on the Beat-L about the
> famous 1987
"River City Reunion" that took place in Lawrence,Kansas. Beat
> writers,
musicians, artists and others came to the Univ of Kansas, Lawrence
> to
> rap, play,
perform and discuss culture in America...S. Clay Wilson designed a
> great logo
for the event that was used on posters, programs, and Tshirts.
>
> Meanwhile,
S. Clay Wilson was lurking on the Beat-L, an Easter weekend guest
> of
Beat/Hippie/Radical Conservative Poet Charlie Plymell, who, with wife,
> Pam, runs
> Cherry
Valley Editions, tres cool avant-garde publishing company in upstate
> NY.
> Wilson got
on the list and said hello....I suggested that Wilson draw a Beat
> ListT-shirt
for us...I offered on behalf of Water Row Books as sponsor to put
> up the bread
to get the shirt done and then sell them to Beat-L members at
> cost...So here's
where we are now - the artwork will be finished in a few
> days
hopefully and I'll let everyone know the cost and other details. The
> shirt can be
checked out then at the new Water Row Books web site (address to
> follow) -
>
> By the way,
S. Clay Wilson found a box of original River City Reunion posters
> and programs
from the 1987 event. He signed them all and sent them to me here
> at Water
Row. The poster is printed on a nice heavy stock and is approx. 16"
> x 20" -
> a perfect
size to frame. It features Wilson's great logo of a cowpoke-type
> guy dancing
around with another Beat poet-type who looks alot like Allen
> Ginsberg.
Great colorful
> Wilson
artwork. The poster also lists the dates for the event as well as the
> participants
that included Burroughs, Ginsberg, Robert Frank, Jim Carroll,
> Husker Du,
many many more....
>
> The River
City Reunion program also features the logo in full color plus the
> detailed
> schedule of
events, bios of each participant, event location, etc. Wilson
> also signed
each program front cover...
>
> For the very
small price of $25.00, you can get a set of one signed poster
> and one
signed program. If you only want the poster or program by itself, the
> price is
$15.00 for the one item. The programs are in near mint condition and
> the posters
are in very fine condition. The posters have a little corner wear
> or wrinkling
from age (ten years old already!), For Beat-L members, I'll pay
> the
shipping.
> MC/Visa
accepted. Satisfaction guaranteed. Both posters and programs now in
>
stock...Offer good only while limited supply lasts....
>
> Thanks -
>
> Jeffrey
Weinberg
> Water Row
Books
> PO Box 438
> Sudbury MA
01776
> Tel
508-485-8515
> Fax
508-229-0885
> EMail
Waterrow@aol.com
oooh gooood
thanks jeff, i
appreciate you. I think the cowboy look
for burroughs
was because the
river city reunion was (i believe)the same year wsb took
to wearing jeans
rather than east coast slacks all the time. they looked
good on him too.
very kansan
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:08:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
>
>Ummm..Im
sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably
>over 100k of
crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed
>who, and who
believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you
>liek to read
the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems
>to disagree
with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests
>to move all
estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the
>rest of us
who use email for other then gossip mills can actually
>participate
in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.
Given that there
are 200 people on the list (according to your post) and
there have been a
few complaints about "the fight", i cannot see how you
can know a
majority of the list agrees.
But, aside from
this claim, I feel sad at this attitude.
Your statement
above is the same as those who banned howl so many years ago.
Just cause you
and a majority are offended by something you want to ban it.
The cry of the
censors througout history.
best wishes to
you,
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:14:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: the list
>
>Now, keep in
mind, all the smaller items when explained in detail takes up
>to 8-pages.
More deposits to the Berg collection are forthcoming. This list
>is evidence
that the estate selling items off piecemeal are unsubstantiated
>rumors. Those
items sold lend no significance to Kerouac scholarship. All of
>the
detractors of the Kerouac Estate, if they are man enough with integrity
>should
apologize to John Sampas for making such unfounded claims. I hope
>this list
helps.
>
Dear Paul, May 22, 1997
I owe no one an apology. This is essentially the same list that
librarian Rodney
Phillips gave me 3 years ago. He told me
he couldn't
remember any of
it coming directly from Mr. Sampas. If
that was an error,
then blame Mr.
Phillips. I met with him, I queried him,
I did my best to
learn the truth.
Almost nothing has been added since
then. Why should I believe your
(or Mr. Sampas's)
assurance that "more deposits are forthcoming"? What?
A
few more xeroxes?
Where are the manuscripts of ON THE ROAD, DR. SAX, THE
SUBTERRANEANS,
VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD, THE DHARMA BUMS, VANITY
OF DULUOZ, the
rest of DESOLATION ANGELS, most of LONESOME TRAVELLER, and so
many more
published and unpublished (THE SEA IS MY BROTHER, AND THE HIPPOS
WERE BOILED IN
THEIR TANKS!, SECRET MULLINGS ABOUT BILL, etc. etc.) Where
are the tapes,
and photos, and books from Kerouac's library?
Where are the
twenty years of
daily breast pocket notebooks?
Where is Kerouac's complete file of
correspondence, with all the
greats,
Ferlinghetti, McClure, and hundreds of other major writers he
corresponded
with?
Where are the galleys and multiple
typed drafts of the different books?
And stop saying "unsubstantiated
rumors" of Sampas selling off
pieces of the
archive. A dozen different dealers and
collectors have
testified to
buying stuff, and I've held plenty of pieces in my own hands.
Ann Charters
bought some pieces for herself. Jeffrey
Weinberg has attested
to the hundreds
of items he sold off. He's occasionally
disputed the price
things sold for,
or whether a drawing was art versus just a sketch. He's
never said he
wasn't Sampas's main dealer from 1991-1993, and that he didn't
issue catalogues
of items from the Kerouac archive, and that he didn't have
plenty of
buyers..
I appreciate the fact that Mr. Sampas
is helping you with your new
magazine, KEROUAC
QUARTERLY, but the biggest service you could do for
Kerouac
scholarship right now is to ask:
WHEN IS MR. SAMPAS REALLY GOING TO PUT
THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE ON
DEPOSIT IN A
LIBRARY? THE FULL ARCHIVE?
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:34:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> >I am
ashamed to say that this list has deterioted to nothing but a
> showing
> >of whose
has a bigger ego, and for that alone, all those involved
> should be
> >ashamed.
> >>--
> >
> >Lisa M.
Rabey
> >Internet
and Computer Consultant
> >San
Francisco, California
>
>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
>
>**************************************
> >General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
> >
> >
> Lisa, May 22, 1997
>
> I appreciate what all of you are
saying, but it is not your
>
professionalism that is under attack here--it is mine.
> I spend six years working my ass off
to write what William S.
> Burroughs
called "the best of the many books about Jack Kerouac's life
> and
> work,"
and I am accused of running around the country making xeroxes
> of
> Kerouac
letters so I can sell them for "cold, hard cash."
<snip>My
favorite biography is Memory Babe by this poster. The love and
care that went
into the book are very evident. But I am
picking up here
withing these
very few hours on the list that Mr. Nicosia has been
accused of
something that he says is not true. From
all I know of him,
and I have spoken
with him on the telephone, but that has nothing to do
with this
comment, he has done a very good and appreciated work.
Somewhere
recently I ran into a site on the internet/www that had an
article about Jan
Kerouac, the Sampras fellow and the scene where Jan
was arrested
while Ginsburg tended to embarass himself by failing to aid
his
Goddaughter. I suppose now I am getting
to understand the gest of
this thread.
As an attorney, I
would like to remind anyone who posts accusations
against another,
like those that Nicosia is selling Kerouac's letters,
that if those
remarks are not true, they can be liable for slander.
Further, if it
interfers with his business, they may be liable for that
interferance as
well. Therefore, I would want anyone making such
accusations to
remember that just because you are sitting behind a
computer teminal,
doesn't mean you can say anything you want to say.
And if you do it
for ulterior motives, you may regret the day you said
it, because there
are lots of lawyers who don't have anything better to
do than to sue
you!!! :-)
Mr. Nicosia has
published a great work and since he apparantly posts to
this list, I for
one want to hear what he has to say. If
on the other
hand, there is
evidence that he is in this only to make a quick buck off
Jack Kerouac,
then, I would like to know about that.
A question that I
have is are these persons, Anstee and Chaput in any
way connected
with Samprass? If so, their comments
would be highly
suspect. Any man who would have Kerouac's daughter
arrested and dragged
out of a public
meeting instead of giving her the microphone does not
seem right to me.
I think we all
have a great interest in the discussion of Kerouac's life
work and his
papers. Noone should be allowed to chill
that.
Hey, Mr. Nicosia,
give me a call, I can't advertise here, but uhhh, you
know, I am a
lawyer.
> They have deliberately muddied the
water, so that the real
> discussion
of preserving Jack Kerouac's literary archive would get off
>
> point, and
they have done their best to see that it has never gotten
> back on
> point. <snip basketball>
> The only bad taste I have left is that
the other guys have
>
"won"--they got what they wanted, which was to kill an honest
> discussion
of
> what should
be done with Jack Kerouac's papers. They
have never
> allowed
> such a
discussion to take place, ANYWHERE. When
Jan Kerouac asked for
> five
> minutes to
talk about it at NYU, the year before she died, they
> dragged her
> out with
police.
Well, I for one
would like to hear about Kerouac's papers and why they
are not
accessible. What I understand is that
Sampress has made threats
to sue the
University if they let people see the papers.
If so, then I
have another reason
to dislike Sampress from the get go.
But, I am
asking because I
would like to know. Does someone
besides Mr. Nicosia
know about
this. Has it chilled the
discussion. If so, why would a
column about
beats be intimidated? Stange indeed.
> They can't use police here, just threats of
lawsuits and all
> this
> other
shit. So once again truth is the first
casualty.
It doesn't have
to be. I sure would like to know more
about this. Man,
I love Jack
Kerouac's work. That is why I have signed
onto the list.
As you all can
see, I don't have enough sense to keep my nose out of
someone else's
business.
> Peace everyone, Gerry Nicosia
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:44:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Time magazine-Kerouac ....and Life
At 11:07 PM
5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Phil,
>
> Thanks for the tip-off about the Time
Magazine article. Do you know
>what the date
of the issue was? Also, someone else
mentioned articles that
>appeared in
Life magazine during the fifties about the Beats. If that person
>recognizes
themselves I'd like a tip to the date/writer of the article.
>Specifically,
I wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written
>by Loudon
Wainwright II.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>All it said
was spring 97 but I'm sure it's still on the shelf at the big
bookstores like B
and N. I was checking it out at the doctors office. I want
to pick one up
myself for my archive(oops did I say that word) sorry. My 15
year old son was
quite impressed because he's always calling me a Kerowacko
and it was like
"See I told you so." Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:04:52 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Last Gasp
Michael L.
Buchenroth wrote:
>
> Thanks to a
BEAT-L post a few weeks back, I snail mailed Last Gasp for a
> catalog. I
received my fantastic Spring 1997 Last Gasp catalog yesterday.
> In it, they
list their web site, www.lastgasp.com
> Here they
have a large online catalog with S. Clay Wilson, R Crumb, 13
> ZAP Comix
reprints for $2.95 each, Tim Leary comics, a huge selection of
> books and
comics, etc etc etc. complete with a running slide show
> highlighting
their wares. I want to share this fantastic web site with
> BEAT-L
readers!
Michael
Could you reprint
the URL on this one. Maybe I was
instantly deleting
Estate posts and
missed something interesting
James
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:58:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: For R. Bentz Kirby
Mr. Kirby,
I'm also relatively new to this list. The estate controversy involves
Kerouac, a
potentially forged will, the whereabouts and alleged sales of
Kerouac's letters
and manuscripts, who possesses the legal right to have
said documents
and any legal tender generated from their sale, who is right
and who is wrong,
who has evidence and who doesn't, the value of xeroxes,
the wisdom of
participants discussing a pending legal matter in a public
forum and a small
South-American tribe named "Sicofitall". I'm sure the
participants will
fill you in further. I dread that they
will use this
forum. Anyway, welcome.
James M.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:15:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
>As an
attorney, I would like to remind anyone who posts accusations
>against
another, like those that Nicosia is selling Kerouac's letters,
>that if those
remarks are not true, they can be liable for slander.
HOW ABOUT THE
SAMPASES SELLING THE ESTATE "PIECEMEAL"..IS THAT NOT SLANDER?
>Further, if
it interfers with his business, they may be liable for that
>interferance
as well. Therefore, I would want anyone making such
>accusations
to remember that just because you are sitting behind a
>computer
teminal, doesn't mean you can say anything you want to say.
>And if you do
it for ulterior motives, you may regret the day you said
>it, because
there are lots of lawyers who don't have anything better to
>do than to
sue you!!! :-)
>
>Mr. Nicosia
has published a great work and since he apparantly posts to
>this list, I
for one want to hear what he has to say.
******DONT WORRY
YOU WILL.....
If on the other
>hand, there
is evidence that he is in this only to make a quick buck off
>Jack Kerouac,
then, I would like to know about that.
>
>A question
that I have is are these persons, Anstee and Chaput in any
>way connected
with Samprass? If so, their comments
would be highly
>suspect.
*****WHY? CAN HE
NOT HAVE FRIENDS WHO STICK UP FOR HIM?
Any man who would have Kerouac's daughter
arrested and dragged
>out of a
public meeting instead of giving her the microphone does not
>seem right to
me.
THE WORLD ISN'T
FAIR EITHER...
>
>I think we
all have a great interest in the discussion of Kerouac's life
>work and his
papers. Noone should be allowed to chill
that.
>
>Hey, Mr.
Nicosia, give me a call, I can't advertise here, but uhhh, you
>know, I am a
lawyer.
>
>
>Well, I for
one would like to hear about Kerouac's papers and why they
>are not
accessible. What I understand is that
Sampress
****IT IS
"SAMPAS"...GET THE SPELLING AS WELL AS THE FACTS STARIGHT BEFORE
YOU TAKE SIDES...
has made threats
>to sue the
University if they let people see the papers.
If so, then I
>have another
reason to dislike Sampress from the get go.
I THINK YOU
REALLY NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
But, I am
>asking
because I would like to know. Does
someone besides Mr. Nicosia
>know about
this. Has it chilled the
discussion. If so, why would a
>column about
beats be intimidated? Stange indeed.
>
>> They can't use police here, just
threats of lawsuits and all
>> this
>> other
shit. So once again truth is the first
casualty.
>AND SO MY
WORDS WILL BE A TESTAMENT TO THAT AS YOU WILL SEE..
>It doesn't
have to be. I sure would like to know
more about this. Man,
>I love Jack
Kerouac's work. That is why I have
signed onto the list.
>As you all
can see, I don't have enough sense to keep my nose out of
>someone
else's business.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:01:56 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update
Jeffrey Weinberg
wrote:
>
> Dear Beat-L
members:
>
> I spoke with
S. Clay Wilson today..the artwork for our t-shirt will be ready
> next week.
> I will post
the artwork for you to check out on our new Water Row Books web
> site
Jeffery-
Looking forward
to the shirt, it brings back calmer times.
Who knows, if you
had started this later S. Clay would have had to do
John Sampas as
Capt. Pissgums and Gerry Nicosia as Ruby the Dyke.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:17:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: the list
> Where are the manuscripts of ON THE
ROAD (on deposit)
, DR. SAX (
, THE
>SUBTERRANEANS,
VISIONS OF CODY, VISIONS OF GERARD, THE DHARMA BUMS, VANITY
>OF DULUOZ,
the rest of
DESOLATION ANGELS (Passing Through is on
the list, 615-pages worth
) most of
LONESOME TRAVELLER, and so
>many more
published and unpublished
(THE SEA IS MY
BROTHER, AND THE HIPPOS
>WERE BOILED
IN THEIR TANKS!, SECRET MULLINGS ABOUT BILL, etc. etc.)
********JUVENALIA
NOVELS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE FUTURE
Where
>are the
tapes, and photos, and books from Kerouac's library? Where are the
>twenty years
of daily breast pocket notebooks?
********NOTEBOOKS
ARE DUE TO BE PUBLISHED LATER
> Where is Kerouac's complete file of
correspondence, with all the
>greats,
Ferlinghetti, McClure, and hundreds of other major writers he
>corresponded
with? RETAINED FOR SELECTED LETTERS II
> Where are the galleys and multiple
typed drafts of the different books?
>
***********Who cares right now? They will get there in time....
I appreciate the fact that Mr. Sampas is
helping you with your new
>magazine,
KEROUAC QUARTERLY, ( ********my inquiry and his help is for the
fans not my
newsletter)
but the biggest
service you could do for
>Kerouac
scholarship right now is to ask:
> WHEN IS MR. SAMPAS REALLY GOING TO PUT
THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE ON
>DEPOSIT IN A
LIBRARY? Whe he feels like it nothing more or nothing
less...but it is
NOT being sold off piecemeal like Joan Haverty's arrest
warrant to
Jack...
WHEN THE TIME IS
RIGHT...NOT AT YOUR BIDDING YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT
>
>SOMEHOW I
KNEW THAT YOU WOULD STILL CONTEST THIS..CONSIDER THIS, YOUR
RAVINGS ARE PROBABLY
HOLDING UP THE PUBLICATION OF MANY UNPUBLISHED ITEMS.
IF MR. SAMPAS
COULD CONCENTRATE ON PUBLICATION INSTEAD OF LITIGATION IT
WOULD HAPPEN A
LOT SOONER. TRUST ME. I can call John Sampas a friend of mine
because to
me...he seems an honest and fair man.He is receptive to
publications
about Kerouac (like mine) and is always interested in what the
fans of Kerouac
want. He is not hoarding up anything for himself. If you
think that all
this stuff you claim is true and that he is the mastermind of
it all then you
hardly even know who John Sampas is. when will there be
enough in the
archives? I think it would be best to conclude these postings
with the
realization that the real fans of Kerouac have a BIG treat for them
in store in
September. Some of the Dharma is a quality publication. just
think...it does
not have to come out at all. Be thankful for what you got
and not for what
you don't have.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:09:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: What is your agenda Pam?
****IT IS
"SAMPAS"...GET THE SPELLING AS WELL AS THE FACTS STARIGHT
BEFORE
YOU TAKE SIDES...
Well, I never
said I was a scholar, only a lawyer. My
question is
whether or not
someone is trying to quelch discussions with false
accusations. If so, it doesn't matter to me if it is
Nicosia, Sampas,
Sapras or
Pampras. I am asking a question.
You seem to have
an opinion and you certainly know more about the list
than I do, but, I
will catch up.
I will spell and
mispell as I please or out of ignorance.
Spulling is
overrated anyway.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:13:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Man, is there a buzz going on in here or
what?
HOW ABOUT THE
SAMPASES SELLING THE ESTATE "PIECEMEAL"..IS THAT NOT
SLANDER?
If they have not
done this, it might be. My question was,
what is this
all about? I do not bring any defined ideas to the
table. And I am
entitled to
ask. Have they sold off portions of the
estate? Do you
know? Just tell me what you know, back channel is
fine.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:25:27 -0700
Reply-To: goyozura@earthlink.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gregory Zura
<goyozura@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: please remove me
REMOVE BEAT-L
Gregory Zura
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:46:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Clarify this situation
Obviously this
thing is hotter than I expected. I want
to make it clear
to everyone, I
have spoken, once on the phone with Mr. Nicosia. As a
lawyer I am
interested in his story, which I picked up from a search on
beats on a web
search engine. I have requested that
members back
channel me with
information on this dispute.
I will not make
public, even to Nicosia any bc mail. And
if I were to
ever get involved
with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post this
to the
group. I do not want anyone to share any
thoughts or ideas with
me, unless you
understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia, but
will not
republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.
Just a lawyerly
warning to try to keep it straight.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:52:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the list
Paul,
Thanks for
posting this list of items. I mean that.
A few honest
questions:
1). Are all of these items originals? I know what a holograph is and I know
what a typescript
is so I am asuming they're are originals.
Is that corret?
2). Are all the letters listed originals?
3). Are the notebooks listed Jack's breast pocket
notebooks?
4). Are any of these items photocopies or other
reproductions?
5). Have these items been "Sold",
"Donated", "Loaned" or are they "On
Deposit"?
Also, Paul, I'd
be careful about insinuating that anyone who is on the Beat-L
who may not agree
with you is not a *real* fan of Kerouac.
If we weren't
*all* real fans of
Kerouac's we wouldn't be here to begin with and we
certainly woudn't
be so passionate about this issue.
Secondly, while
this list you'll be publishing in the KQ is valuable and
important, it is
*not* evidence that accusations of selling off items
piecemeal are
unsubstantiated. As a matter of fact a
number of people on
the Beat-L are
known to have been involved in various transactions, so
obviously items
were bought and sold.
Lastly, you say,
"Be thankful for what you got and not for what you don't
have". What a curious thing to say. I would submit to everyone that a valid
argument could be
made that the *only* reason these items on your list are
being properly
addressed is because Gerry Nicosia and Jan Kerouac made such a
public spectacle
that John Sampas had no choice in this.
He had to do
something to show
he's doing the right thing.
I do appreciate
your efforts to shine light on the topic, Paul.
I may not
agree with some
of your conclusions, but I'm glad you're saying what you
know. I respect that.
Regards,
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:33:09 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike Pearson
<digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
At 12:58 PM
5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>>
General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
>Sure! No
problem ;)
>
>HOW TO SUCK
COCK
This is not why I
subscribe,
still it's a fertile topic for sanguine
humor
though I wonder, you hate them like
that?
or do you unlike them unlike that?
And "forwarding" this from
someone else
raises concerns.....we want your angle
on this
though it's only mental.
Respectully,
just another swingin' little guy who
wants to
know what you know, without being
invasive
or raising your hackles, kitty!
www.ellensburg.com/~digress
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 03:44:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
Derek, Marie,
Lisa, et al...
I agree a lot of
this is distasteful. I agree too much of
it is juvenile.
But it is serving
a very large purpose.
Look at who does
*nothing* but shout and moan. The very
same people who
refuse to answer
honest questions. These people have
raised the level of
rhetoric time and
time again because they have no legitimate argument to
make. Now Chaput is calling for a truce. Why?
Because he knows he's
beaten. Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was
really serious about his
"Gerry is a
thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him
to come back with
"it was a joke".
Is everybody out
there blind to all this? I hate the
namecalling too, but
that's not what
this is about. This is about JACK
KEROUAC'S ARCHIVES. What
have we *ever*
discussed that is more important than that?
This is an issue
that has to be discussed. And private
emails won't cut it.
I agree everyone should tone down the
namecalling and shouting, but we've
got to keep
talking about it on the Beat-L. It's the
public forum that
exposes the truth
and exposes motivations.
If Jack Kerouac's
archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete
button. If we stop talking about this now then the
people who want to hide
the truth will
have won. And the people calling for
this topic to be halted
will have helped
silence the truth.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 04:17:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the knights who say, all right allready!
In-Reply-To:
<199705222148.OAA12515@norway.it.earthlink.net>
meester nicosia
wrote:
"The trouble
is, Mr. Chaput can keep posting these lies faster than I
can answer them,
since I am also answering Anstee and the other cheap-shot
artists at the
same time"
a solution: just
cc: mr chaput and mr anstee and who and what ever, and go
off line with it.
and for motivation
to have some respect for others on list/
by so doing,
the winner of
this piss contest will recieve an all expenses paid visit to
the m.ppython
'argument clinic'
wearily
mc
.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 02:05:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To:
<v01510100afaa6a52df2c@[128.125.223.188]>
At 09:08 PM
5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>Ummm..Im
sorry, but I don't fill over 200+ subscribers a day with probably
>>over 100k
of crap about whose a liar, whose fucking who, who is screwed
>>who, and
who believed who about what where and when. Thats great that you
>>liek to
read the posts, but unfortunately, the majority of the list seems
>>to
disagree with you and there has been many polite and unpolite requests
>>to move
all estate battles to another list (ie start your own) so that the
>>rest of
us who use email for other then gossip mills can actually
>>participate
in conversations that can be enjoyed by all.
>
>Given that
there are 200 people on the list (according to your post) and
>there have
been a few complaints about "the fight", i cannot see how you
>can know a
majority of the list agrees.
First off, its
roughly 232 people that are on this list. If you are so
inclined to know
how many here is, just email: majordomo@cunyvm.cuny.edu
body of text: who
beat-l
Will tell you how
many people are currently on the list. If the list is
done by
listproc@cunyvm.cuny.edu, the commands will be different.
Now, I am
"assuming" that you know nothing of how a list works. Let me give
a breif tutorial.
A list is
generated to talk about something specific topic, such as this
one is generated
about Beat Liteature/related topics. Generally, majority
of the people
lurk, but there are those who are heavy contributors, such as
Patricia, Leon,
Race--, Marie, James Stauffer (plus I know there are many
heavy
contributors out there, im not slighting you out, im just naming
names i've seen
recently). These people have made heavy contributation to
the list. There
are others such as myself who lurk and make minimal
contribution and
finally there are those who say nothing at all.
Now, when
majority of the those who make a voice on this list and more or
less set the beat
of the beat list. Doesn't mean they own the list per se,
but obviously
they are here to discuss BEAT LITERATURE/related topics and
want to see that
it continues. This also doesn't mean that others can't
contribute, but,
"someone" has to take the lead in starting conversations,
because if
someone doesn' the list will go dead because people are afraid
to say
something. And I am always grateful to
the input and information
about various and
sundry things beat, because that is "Why" i am here, is
to learn more
about a "subject" (for lack of a better word) that intrests
me wholly.
And seeing as
'majority' of those that contribute (as well as myself) feel
that this has
gone way out of control, it can be safely said that its the
lists voice that
does not want the 'saga' to continue. Its boring, its
backbiting and
its worthless. Its become nothing but gossip treadmil of
insults,
backbiting and immaturity.
>
>But, aside
from this claim, I feel sad at this attitude.
Thats your
opinion, which you are more then rightly entitled to have. Does
not mean I have
to agree with you.
>
>Your
statement above is the same as those who banned howl so many years ago.
You sir have just
stepped out of bounds. You know nothing about me and my
comment nor
anyones has NOTHING to do with censorship of anything. It has
to do with the
bad taste and the bullshit this list has nothing to do with
literature or
anything else. I prefer not to get close to a hundred
messages a day
from ONE list about a subject that pretains nothing to the
list whatso ever.
Its gone beyond simple matter of what happened to a full
out flame war,
which, is poor netiquette.
>
>Just cause
you and a majority are offended by something you want to ban it.
>The cry of
the censors througout history.
>
Oh for
christsakes, grow up. Your acting as immature and as childish as
those who were
participating in the war. This is NOT about censorship, book
burning or
anything else. Its about common sense and having MANNERS. I am
NOT the only one
who feels this way, but I may be the most vocal.
and it is MY
right to voice my opinion because if I don't agree with
something, I sure
as hell am not going to sit back and let it just roll on
by thinking
someone else will talk for me.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 02:18:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<970523034455_-196546180@emout15.mail.aol.com>
At 03:44 AM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Derek, Marie,
Lisa, et al...
>
>I agree a lot
of this is distasteful. I agree too much
of it is juvenile.
>But it is
serving a very large purpose.
Im sorry, but I
don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer in
the mix, and
other going ons are 'helping' anything.
>
>Look at who
does *nothing* but shout and moan. The
very same people who
>refuse to
answer honest questions. These people
have raised the level of
>rhetoric time
and time again because they have no legitimate argument to
>make. Now Chaput is calling for a truce. Why?
Because he knows he's
>beaten. Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was
really serious about his
>"Gerry
is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him
>to come back
with "it was a joke".
Im sorry, I
thought Mr. Chaputs letter was one of the nicest ones this list
has generated in
a long time. To stand back and say "hey, this is getting
ridiculas"
and stepping away has nothing to do with being 'beaten' but
perhaps showing a
bit more maturity then some of the people on here are
even wanting to
show. This is NOT a list dedicated to will/probate what
have you of
Jack's stuff, its about beat literature and until now, has been
quit nice filler
for information about the people behind the books and the
books themselves
as well as other related topics. Its now turned into a
National Enquirer
via email. If I wanted to read trash, I would walk my ass
down to the store
and buy a copy.
>
>Is everybody
out there blind to all this? I hate the
namecalling too, but
>that's not
what this is about. This is about JACK
KEROUAC'S ARCHIVES. What
>have we
*ever* discussed that is more important than that?
Its gone beyond
his archives. Its gone to being nothing but a whose got a
bigger dick then
the other person.
Whats next?
Pulling my pigtails to show that you like me?
>
>This is an
issue that has to be discussed. And
private emails won't cut it.
> I agree
everyone should tone down the namecalling and shouting, but we've
>got to keep
talking about it on the Beat-L. It's the
public forum that
>exposes the
truth and exposes motivations.
Again, I disagree
with you. The issue has been beaten into
the ground so
many goddamn
times its worse then the old "men vs woman" stand by. And I
even suggested
that you CREATE your own listserv so that those who were
intersted in this
could subscribe and bitch to their hearts content.
Hell, email
bryanf@samurai.com
He owns his own
server and handles listservs for free.
Just tell him
that you want one and he will set it up, hell even tell him I
sent ya!
>
>If Jack Kerouac's
archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete
>button. If we stop talking about this now then the
people who want to hide
>the truth
will have won. And the people calling
for this topic to be halted
>will have
helped silence the truth.
You know what?
(Forgiv me Patricia) Fuck off. This list generates way too
much mail. And I
don't know about the rest of you out there, but *this*
account alone
gets roughly 500 messages a day for personal email/business
and now *some*
lists. I like this list. I have met many really nice people,
especially since
I moved to the SF area, and if you think I am going to
quietly die, your
are quite mistaken. And again, it has nothing to do with
his archieves,
its a damn pissing contest/whose got the bigger balls and
the rest of the
nonsense. Its pure bullshit. Get off your ego trip and
realize THAT truth.
</rant>
ttfn.
Lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 05:39:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<970523034455_-196546180@emout15.mail.aol.com>
hi jerry: you
wrote:
If Jack Kerouac's
archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete
button. If we stop talking about this now then the
people who want to hide
the truth will
have won. And the people calling for
this topic to be halted
will have helped
silence the truth.
@@@@@@@
and of course the
JK archives are very important to me, especially since
seeing the JK
tribute CD which contains beautiful art work by JK, which i
have never before
seen and wonder how many other paintings there are.
however, i am not
into pissing contests or namecalling or any of the other
behaviors which
have been flaming the scene of late.
peace
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 05:50:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and Videotape
In a message
dated 97-05-23 02:41:48 EDT, Gerry Nicosia writes:
<< 7) What financial help has Attila Gyensis
received for his DHARMA
BEAT magazine from Mr. Sampas, including
Viking/Penguin advertisements that
Mr. Sampas arranged for Viking/Penguin to
place there? How much has Mr.
Gyensis earned from working for Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, which we learned
is partly financed by Mr. Sampas? >>
Dear Gerry,
Can you please
call up John Sampas so he can have
Viking Books place another
advertizement in
my next issue of DHARMA beat.
Thanks for your
assistance in this matter.
Attila Gyenis
Editor, DHARMA beat, A Jack Kerouac Publication
PS - For the
record, the financial assistance that I have received from Mr.
Sampas
amounts to a grand
total of (let me check my calculator) $ 0, nada, zero,
nulla, nothing,
zip.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 05:50:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Time magazine-Kerouac ....and Life
In a message
dated 97-05-23 00:53:30 EDT, you write:
<<
Specifically, I wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written
by Loudon Wainwright II.>>
You may have
heard of Loudon Wainwright the Third, his son, who is a great
musician. One of
his lyrics:
I'm not afraid of
flying
I'm just afraid
of dying
I always say you
can't fall off an airplane unless it crashes into a
mountain, in
which case you can't fall off the mountain.
Farside
cartoon: One pilot talking to the other
pilot- " Hey, what is that
mountain goat
doing up in this cloud bank?"
enjoy, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 06:15:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: happy fried-day :pome/thought for the day
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970523021835.006da440@smtp.net-link.net>
from _the gift of
tongues: 25 yrs of poetry from copper canyon press_
thomas centolella
joy
when it comes
back to teach you
or you come back
to learn
how half alive
you've been,
how your
ignorance and arrogance
have kept you
deprived -
when it comes
back to you
or you yourself
return,
joy is simple,
unassuming.
red tulips on
their green stems.
early spring
vegetables, bright in the pan.
the primary
colors of a child's painting,
the first
lessons, all over again.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 07:08:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: more thoughts to ponder:on debate vs
mudslinging,
passion vs aggression
In-Reply-To:
<3.0.1.32.19970523021835.006da440@smtp.net-link.net>
quotation from _dharma art_ by chogyam
trungpa
re: basic
goodness
"what makes
us blind? aggression makes us blind, so that we can't create
visual dharma.
what makes us deaf? aggresion creates deafness, therefore
canot be
produced. and because of aggression, dharma touch, dharma smell,
or dharma taste
also cannot be produced. to use an american idiom, when we
are uptight, we
are being aggressive. we are so disatisfied with ourselves,
our world, and
our work that we begin to feel that everything is worthless.
or at the least,
we feel that some things are worthless while other things
might have some
worth. we pay more attention, and take things so
personally, that
when any negativity occurs in our lives, we get aggressive
and uptight. on
the whole, we could say quite confidently that aggression
makes us blind
and deaf, so we cannot produce a work of art, let alone
anything else. we
cannot run our lives. aggression makes us dumb mutes, so
we become like
vegetables. aggression might produce a so-called
extraordinary
work of art, but art produced in such a way pollutes the
world, rather
than producing something refreshing and healthful.
the purpose of
dharma art is to try to overcome aggression. according to
the buddhist
vajrayana tradition, if your mind is preoccupied with
aggresion, you
cannot function properly. on the other hand if your mind is
proccupied with
passion, there are possibilities...
when you are in a
passionate state you begin to like the world, and you
begin to be
attracted to certain things--which is good. obviously,such
attraction also
entails possessiveness and some sense of territoriality,
which comes
later.But straightforward, pure passion--without ice, without
water, without
soda--is good. it is dinkable it also food; you can live on
it. it's quite
marvelous that we have passion, that we are not made purely
out of
aggression. ..without pasion, nothing can be experienced; nothing
can be worked on.
with aggression, we have bad feelings about ourselves:
either we feel
tremendously righteous, that we are the only ones who are
right, or we feel
pissed off that somebody is destroying us. that is
pathetic. it
prevents us from seeing the basic goodness."
_______
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:05:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
At 03:44 AM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Derek, Marie,
Lisa, et al...
>
>I agree a lot
of this is distasteful. I agree too much
of it is juvenile.
>But it is
serving a very large purpose.
>
>Look at who
does *nothing* but shout and moan. The
very same people who
>refuse to
answer honest questions. These people
have raised the level of
>rhetoric time
and time again because they have no legitimate argument to
>make. Now Chaput is calling for a truce.
****a man can't
win can he? I think he is fed up with this that's all. I
wouldn't say he's
"beaten."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:31:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: pre-Beat, post-Beat, and Beat
In-Reply-To: <3385138E.C81E3784@scsn.net>
On Thu, 22 May
1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> Has this
list explored the ancestors to the beats?
Another idea --
has this been discussed yet? -- is the post-Beats. Yeah we
can debate about
whether or not the Beat Generation ended when Kerouac
appeared on the
Tonight Show or death of Ginsberg or whatever, but out of
all the literary
movements since (and what are the big ones?), who out there
have been clearly
influenced by the Beats?
For one, there
seems to be a new cyber-psychedelic movement of writers
emerging in this
decade, with Howard Rheingold, Terence McKenna and Douglas
Rushkoff being
the first to come to mind, and they seem to be directly next
in line with Tim
Leary & Albert Hoffman, decending down from the Whole Earth
60s, also heavily
borrowing from Alan Watts philosophies with a hefty dose
of (non-Beat)
tech reporting a la Steven Levy's _Hackers_ thrown in for good
measure.
What else
post-Beat is going on, someone care to tell me. I always thought
Bret Easton Ellis
took the structure of _Visions of Cody_ to heart when he
wrote _The Rules
of Attraction_ (one of his finest works). I wonder what
he'd say about
that.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:35:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
At 02:05 AM
5/23/97 -0700, Lisa Rabey wrote:
>This is NOT
about censorship, book burning or anything else.
>Its about
common sense and having MANNERS. I am
>NOT the only
one who feels this way, but I may be the
>most vocal.
Hey Lisa et al,
I don't believe
the issue is "censorship."
Nobody wants
the estate/papers
discussion to end (major part of Kerouac
history). I think the general plea has been for the
mean, sarcastic,
cheap-shots to be done in private
e-mail. This isn't censorship, it is a request that
people
stick to the
facts and be respectful of one another.
We
may not all agree
on things, but were does meaness,
sarcasm and
daggers get us, NOWHERE! Just back into
a stupid
repetative cycle of bullshit. Just my
feelings.
Flame away...
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:39:58 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: more thoughts to ponder:on debate vs
mudslinging,
passion vs aggression
At 07:08 AM
5/23/97 -0400, Marie wrote:
> quotation from _dharma art_ by chogyam
trungpa
Thanx Marie!!
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:43:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
At 05:39 AM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>hi jerry: you
wrote:
>
>If Jack
Kerouac's archives aren't important to you, then hit the delete
>button. If we stop talking about this now then the
people who want to hide
>the truth
will have won. And the people calling
for this topic to be halted
>will have
helped silence the truth.
>@@@@@@@
>and of course
the JK archives are very important to me, especially since
>seeing the JK
tribute CD which contains beautiful art work by JK, which i
>have never
before seen and wonder how many other paintings there are.
>however, i am
not into pissing contests or namecalling or any of the other
>behaviors
which have been flaming the scene of late.
>peace
>mc
>
>Marie, there
are many more beautiful paintings by Jack. I have seen some
and they are
AMAZING I am not sure exactly how many but a good guess would
be over 40, John
is talking about publishing that book as a large format
color book of
paintings. That is one I am really looking forward to. Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:42:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Self-Publishing Links
In-Reply-To: <l03020900afaad598f81e@[206.25.67.101]>
In
"NetGuide" magazine, June 1997, p 46, they list three interesting
urls
of self-publishing
companies, etc. I visited all three sites and the
links work great.
First,
www.electriciti.com/fmcnet/spp.htm dedicates
itself to
listing, publishing, and selling strictly self-published titles.
Second,
www.web-star.com/alternative/books.html welcomes you "to ABS Small and
Self-Publishers.
Each book is vividly presented for your review...it's
almost like
browsing in a bookstore. You can easily locate books by List
of Book
Categories or you can Search our Site. Books may be ordered
On-Line, by FAX
or by Mail. . ."
And third,
www.digitalbooks.com "is one
of the Internet's
first totally digital book publishing and distributing
companies. We
plan to carry a wide collection of fiction, non-fiction,
technical, and
hypermedia books; all of which will be available online and in
digital form . .
.We accept payment via the First Virtual (TM) Internet
Payment System .
. ."
Beat-L seems to
have many readers who self-publish,
own small
publishing houses, hope to self-publish, or otherwise
have interests in
publishing, etc. I just want to share these "NetGuide"
reviewed links
with BEAT-L readers...
By the way,
"NetGuide" listed Levi Asher's "Literary Kicks" site in
their
"Hot
List," a page dedicated monthly to listing web sites "definitely
worth checking
out," last winter. I believe they listed his site in
either the
February or March, 1997 issue--I forget now. (I still have issue
if anyone wants
that detail.) My point, though, remains, if
"Netguide"
lists Levi's site as hot, then their opinions must be right on
the money! Becuz
Levi maintains one of the most incredible sites on the web!
Period!
Thanks...
Michael L.
Buchenroth
mike@buchenroth.com
www.buchenroth.com
To view
Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
go to
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:02:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Time magazine-Kerouac ....and Life
Attila,
Thanks for the tip of the hat to Ol'
Loudo the third. Loudon III is
a terrific
songwriter. On his latest CD, "Grown Man" the song
"Cobwebs"
actually deals
with a Beat topic ...sort of...like, at
least I think so....
first part of
lyrics below.
His father wrote for Life and I can
remember in the late sixties,
shortly after I'd
become a fan of LW III, seeing LW II's name appearing over
an article in
Life magazine - I think about Woodstock!
I missed the II / III deifference and
thought "Wow!" this great
songwriter also
writes for Life magazine!! Fooled again. His father was a
good lyricist
actually. LW III's album "History" came out shortly after his
father's death
and has a very good bluesy ballad that his father had written.
Honest everyone...there is Beat content
here; read on....
Antoine
******************
"Cobwebs" starts off:
Well it stumbles and it falls off of
almost every tongue
Give a listen and you will hear
It's lurkin' like a land mine
In almost every sentence
It's an assault to my mind's ear
Yeah it might have started back with
Jack Kerouac
Probably more than likely it was
Maynard G.Krebs
It's the four-letter word that used to
mean "as if"
And the meaning's covered in cobwebs
Cobwebs
Used to be a preposition
Then it was a conjunction
Now it's used as an audible pause
Oh I hate it when I hear it
Especially when I say it.....
.......with several more uses
of Kerouac's name in refrains.
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:12:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: pre-Beat, post-Beat, and Beat
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
> On Thu, 22
May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> > Has
this list explored the ancestors to the beats?
>
> Another idea
-- has this been discussed yet? -- is the post-Beats. Yeah we
> can debate
about whether or not the Beat Generation ended when Kerouac
> appeared on
the Tonight Show or death of Ginsberg or whatever, but out of
> all the
literary movements since (and what are the big ones?), who out there
> have been
clearly influenced by the Beats?
>
> For one,
there seems to be a new cyber-psychedelic movement of writers
> emerging in
this decade, with Howard Rheingold, Terence McKenna and Douglas
> Rushkoff
being the first to come to mind, and they seem to be directly next
> in line with
Tim Leary & Albert Hoffman, decending down from the Whole Earth
> 60s, also
heavily borrowing from Alan Watts philosophies with a hefty dose
> of
(non-Beat) tech reporting a la Steven Levy's _Hackers_ thrown in for good
> measure.
>
> What else
post-Beat is going on, someone care to tell me. I always thought
> Bret Easton
Ellis took the structure of _Visions of Cody_ to heart when he
> wrote _The
Rules of Attraction_ (one of his finest works). I wonder what
> he'd say
about that.
as the resident
illiterate on the Beat-L, i think that geneaology - both
backwards and
forwards -- seems an interesting subject.
If we consider
the influences of
the Big 5 or Big 15 or whatever one would choose, it
would be
interesting to see what authors present common threads between
them and which do
not. i think that all of this
information would be
fascinating and
would help me in developing my MUST READ lists among
other things i'm
sure.
in looking
forward, i would guess, the process would be similar. though
probably more
difficult in a way. but i still like the
idea of this
direction as
well.
i often joke
about being illiterate. it is only half
joke. for one
reason or
another, i was not able to read literature until probably the
past three years
or so. before that i could count the
books on fingers
and toes. my bookshelves are overflowing with
non-fiction books that
all lead through
a back alley to the types of literature which this list
discusses. hence, the idea of tracing and learning is a
wonderful
thought to me.
but, i'll
definitely be a lurker on this. I might
be able to throw in
two cents when
the conversation turns to Pascal or Heidegger but when it
is in the vein of
literature i will be a wide-eyed student.
hoping to learn
david rhaesa
salina, kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:41:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA,
Main Info Services"
<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow
The Mean People/Nice
People Suck/Swallow thread so violated my alleged
Christian-Judeo
ethics that my friends said I ran naked and screaming around
my office and was
placed under involuntary psychiatric care for 48 hours.
While I was in
the hospital I wrote the following, although I have no memory
of doing so. Apparently this is channeled material and
therefore sacred.
Paul
********************************************************************************
DENIAL AIN'T JUST
A RIVER...
whatever you do
don't kill yrself
be a victim
let them torture
you
lie to you
call you names
let them smile
as they twist
yr nipples and
throw rotten
vegetables
throw up
endure the pain
endure the cramps
ulcers
parasites
indigestion
headaches
tumors
the size of
cincinatti
get into yr pain
it's natural
it's there for a
reason
pain is good
pain is our
friend
just don't do
the dr. kevorkian
thing
life is
beautiful, dammit
pull yrself up
by the bootstraps
stand in the fire
knees together
feet apart
suck up to people
you can't stand
apologize for
things
you didn't do
kiss ass
right on the
mouth
come out of the
closet
when you weren't
even in
to begin with
start at the
bottom
claw your way
to the top
don't just delay
gratification
forget about it
all together
stay with it
stay miserable
stay hungry
stay detatched
stay out of touch
as a matter of
fact
don't touch
don't touch
anyone
don't let them
touch you
don't touch it
for gods sake
don't touch it
take cold showers
get out of the
bathroom
as soon as
possible
don't inhale
don't drink the
water
don't ask
don't tell
don't call
don't write
don't think
don't trust
anyone
don't pick it
it'll never heal
don't talk about
it
it only makes it
worse
believe that
constipation
absolves
responsibility
believe that
which does not kill you
makes you bite
down harder
embrace the dark
black hole
of the soul
it's good for you
makes hair grow
on yr chest
what's the matter
with you anyway?
you think yr
different?
you think yr
special?
you must have
done something
to bring this on
yr being punished
for something
you thought you
got away with
when no one was
looking
well guess what?
god was looking
god can see
through walls
god can see into
yr heart
god knows when
you are sleeping
he knows when yr
awake
so get over it
get a job
get a life
get a raison
d'etre
and remember
it's all karma
it's all in the
genes
it's all been
done before
so
relax
or i'll kill you
Paul McDonald (c)
1997
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:51:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19970523124350.006ac734@pop.tiac.net>
>>Marie,
there are many more beautiful paintings by Jack. I have seen some
>and they are
AMAZING I am not sure exactly how many but a good guess would
>be over 40,
John is talking about publishing that book as a large format
>color book of
paintings. That is one I am really looking forward to. Phil
Phil: thanks for
the information. could you provide updates if and when?
that one painting
with wash out hanging and angel in sky just knocks me
out, brings dr
sax directly into my heart's memories of such neighborhoods
and all.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:52:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow
Paul McDonald,
TeleReference LA, Main Info Services wrote:
>
> The Mean
People/Nice People Suck/Swallow thread so violated my alleged
>
Christian-Judeo ethics that my friends said I ran naked and screaming around
> my office
and was placed under involuntary psychiatric care for 48 hours.
> While I was
in the hospital I wrote the following, although I have no memory
> of doing
so. Apparently this is channeled
material and therefore sacred.
>
> Paul
>
>
*******************************************************************************
*
>
> DENIAL AIN'T
JUST A RIVER...
>
> whatever you
do
> don't kill
yrself
>
> be a victim
>
> let them
torture you
> lie to you
> call you
names
> let them
smile
> as they
twist
> yr nipples
and
> throw rotten
vegetables
>
> throw up
> endure the
pain
> endure the
cramps
> ulcers
> parasites
> indigestion
> headaches
> tumors
> the size of
cincinatti
>
> get into yr
pain
> it's natural
> it's there
for a reason
> pain is good
> pain is our
friend
> just don't
do
> the dr.
kevorkian thing
> life is
beautiful, dammit
> pull yrself
up
> by the
bootstraps
> stand in the
fire
> knees
together
> feet apart
>
> suck up to
people
> you can't
stand
> apologize
for things
> you didn't
do
> kiss ass
> right on the
mouth
> come out of
the closet
> when you
weren't even in
> to begin
with
> start at the
bottom
> claw your
way
> to the top
>
> don't just
delay gratification
> forget about
it all together
> stay with it
> stay
miserable
> stay hungry
> stay
detatched
> stay out of
touch
> as a matter
of fact
> don't touch
> don't touch
anyone
> don't let
them touch you
> don't touch
it
> for gods
sake
> don't touch
it
> take cold
showers
> get out of
the bathroom
> as soon as
possible
>
> don't inhale
> don't drink
the water
> don't ask
> don't tell
> don't call
> don't write
> don't think
> don't trust
anyone
> don't pick
it
> it'll never
heal
> don't talk
about it
> it only
makes it worse
>
> believe that
constipation
> absolves
responsibility
>
> believe that
which does not kill you
> makes you
bite down harder
>
> embrace the
dark
> black hole
> of the soul
> it's good
for you
> makes hair grow
> on yr chest
>
> what's the
matter
> with you
anyway?
> you think yr
different?
> you think yr
special?
> you must
have done something
> to bring
this on
> yr being
punished
> for
something
> you thought
you got away with
> when no one
was looking
> well guess
what?
> god was
looking
> god can see
through walls
> god can see
into yr heart
> god knows
when you are sleeping
> he knows
when yr awake
>
> so get over
it
> get a job
> get a life
> get a raison
d'etre
> and remember
> it's all
karma
> it's all in
the genes
> it's all
been done before
> so
> relax
>
> or i'll kill
you
>
> Paul
McDonald (c) 1997
psychiatric care
is a great place to get insights and nice poetry and
all that. be careful not to entrust the staff with the
writings while
you're
there. it is easy to find out that they
reached the incinerator
while the
sedatives turned creativity into zombiehood.
many many many
notebooks and
collections of notes have gone that way from my anecdotal
personal experience.
i love the poem
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:55:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: DENIAL AIN'T JUST A RIVER...
In-Reply-To:
<970523094152.5e1b@louisville.lib.ky.us>
ok paul,
i am now ready to
bear yr children.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:22:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
l
>
>Phil: thanks
for the information. could you provide updates if and when?
>that one
painting with wash out hanging and angel in sky just knocks me
>out, brings
dr sax directly into my heart's memories of such neighborhoods
>and all.
>mc
>That painting
is Old Angel Midnight...note the clock at midnight and the
angel and the
crosses in the windows...Kerouac echoes the ghost shape with
the wash on the
line..the building in the background with the clock is
Lowell City Hall.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:12:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: more thoughts to ponder
Yes, many thanks,
marie
Dixon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 07:17:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow (or I'll kill
you)
In-Reply-To:
<970523094152.5e1b@louisville.lib.ky.us>
At 6:41 AM -0700
5/23/97, Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA, Main Info
Services wrote:
> so get over
it
> get a job
> get a life
> get a raison
d'etre
> and remember
> it's all
karma
> it's all in
the genes
> it's all
been done before
> so
> relax
>
> or i'll kill
you
> Paul
McDonald (c) 1997
yes, it's been a
while since I've had sex too, but seriously, swallowing is
nothing to commit
murder over. <oh my!> I'm new to this list, so you'll
forgive me for
asking the following, but::
What are the best
sex scenes in beat history/literature?
cheers, Douglas
<<"what
do they call that spot
at the base of
the neck?
right there, I
want it"
(quasi-ralph
fiennes
_english
patient_)>>
>
http://www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:29:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow (or I'll kill
you)
In-Reply-To: <l03020904afab564dac1e@[198.5.212.108]>
On Fri, 23 May
1997, runner911 wrote:
> What are the
best sex scenes in beat history/literature?
Few weeks ago, on
one of the warmer nights in early May, I was reading
Ginsberg's
_Journals Mid Fifties_ and the passage where Peter O cornballs
him for the first
time (or was it the other way around?) in their tiny room
where Peter's
younger bro was asleep in the bed next to them, Peter
whispering
"I love you" just after orgasm or something like that.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:33:04 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Open Letter to Mr. Nicosia
Mr. Nicosia:
I applaud your
willingness to back off. That will (if
my read on Anstee and and
others is
correct) require a great deal of restraint on your part. It is partly
for that reason
that I am writing: to encourage you in your restraint.
You said that you
have been driven to defend yourself and your professional
integrity. I don't think you need to worry about
that. You've more than
substantiated
your side of the story, and your professional integrity is (IMO)
in tact. As you have pointed out, your accomplishments
only contribute to your
reputation. Many of us have read your work, and our
impression of that work
goes a long way
as well.
You said that you
feel the other side has "won."
In what sense? Your stopping
now at least
keeps you from "losing" the battle with those who are more neutral.
And what would
you have to gain with those who, as you say, "lie" and bend the
truth, and know
damned well what they're doing. Why try
to convince them? Talk
about pissing
into the wind.... You say you've taught
(I'm tenured faculty at a
community
college); then you should know that sometimes you fight battles, are
in the right, and
still feel as though you haven't really convinced anyone.
That's standard
politics. I hate it; you probably do,
too. But we're stuck
with it:
Sometimes we just can't get closure in a situation. We go on.
I'm glad you're
moving on to other topics, Mr. Nicosia.
As Mr. Bealieu said,
we're glad you're
here and look forward to your contributions to beat-l. This
is a weird kind
of community in cyberspace. Sometimes I
love the list, and
other times I
don't... but my family is kind of like that, too. There's a
certain wisdom in
knowing when to drop an issue.
All the best, and
with immense respect,
---Wes Lundburg
wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:35:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NOFERI
<NOFERI.MARK@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV>
Subject: Influences on the Beats
Hello all, this
is my first post - having lurked for awhile, would like
to say that
there's many, many interesting posts and posters out there,
including (but
certainly not limited to) the estate controversy.
About Beat
precursors-
I think that this
is a fascinating topic, mostly because the literary influences
on the
Beats are quite
varied, considering how close the actual writers were
personally.
The Kerouac-Wolfe
connection, for one, is quite distinct, especially if you look
at Jack's early
work. It's fun to sit down and read Wolfe's first novel, Look
Homeward, Angel,
and Kerouac's
first, Town and the City, and see just how much Kerouac looked up
to Wolfe
in those days -
Kerouac's flowery prose about Lowell echoes Wolfe's about
Asheville
rather
strikingly. (Interesting, too, because by the end of the book, Kerouac
begins to find
his own voice as
opposed to imitating Wolfe's - but there are times where he
seems to jump
back and forth
from sentence to sentence.) Seems that Jack even looked up to
Wolfe so much that
he created a
fictional family for himself in T&C
that resembled Wolfe's real
family, w/ 3 sisters and
3 brothers.
Temperamentally,
too, apart from the generational differences, I think the two
had a lot in common. Wolfe
was always looking
for a woman to provide for his needs so that he could get
down to writing, same as Jack.
(If anyone's
interested, there's an excellent biography of Wolfe by David
Donald, same author that just
wrote one about
Lincoln, that's well worth checking out.)
Ginsberg,
although he learned much from Whitman and Blake philisophically,
always seemed to me
to be most
influenced by William Carlos Williams stylistically. I think Williams
would fit into the
category of a
"working class poet"; the fact of his being a doctor influenced
his poetry immensely,
and his efforts
to capture the "American experience" and "American voice"
directly through poetry
was something
Ginsberg admired deeply, I think. Jack mentions Williams
occasionally, but doesn't talk
about him all
that much - perhaps just the difference between writing prose and
poetry, I'm sure someone
can speak to this
more intelligently than I.
Burroughs, of
course, is a whole another ballgame, and I'd be interested as well
in hearing what people think
influenced him.
In any case, this
is just some food for thought - I hope this sparks some
discussion, as I know
many people out
there are well qualified to speak about this.
Mark Noferi
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:48:31 -0400
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Wow!
Has this list
explored the ancestors to the beats? I
see a "line" from
Thoreau (sp) vs
Emerson; Wolfe vs ????, Kerouac vs Vidal, Dylan vs
anyone, etc. There seems to be a thread that runs through
"beat" side
of literature
that is inherited into and by working class poets. Has
anyone studied or
considered who are its predecessors.
Like Gertrude
Stein ? the Bohemians? I am just curious.
Peace,
Bentz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 07:58:29 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Clarify this situation
In-Reply-To: <33852F18.F1C87288@scsn.net> from
"R. Bentz Kirby" at May 23,
97 01:46:00 am
Some lawyer
wrote:
> I will not
make public, even to Nicosia any bc mail.
And if I were to
> ever get
involved with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post this
> to the
group. I do not want anyone to share any
thoughts or ideas with
> me, unless
you understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia, but
> will not
republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.
>
> Just a
lawyerly warning to try to keep it straight.
Many weeks ago,
when Gerry Nicosia first showed up on this list,
I wrote a
friendly message saying "Glad to have Gerry N. here,
but I hope we'll
talk about things other than estates and wills,
and that we'll
resist all getting dragged down into the legal
mire together and
ruining the friendly atmosphere of the list".
Now half of us
hate the other half, and now we've got a lawyer
telling us to all
watch our words.
Way to not get
dragged into the mire, guys ...
I'm *this* close
to hitting "unsubscribe" -- the only thing
that's stopping
me is that I know Bill Gargan worked hard
putting this list
together and I think it's really pathetic
the way a few
people are shitting all over it, and I don't
want to give up
hope just yet that the list won't survive.
Not that the
legal material isn't relevant (but *WE GET
THE POINT
ALREADY*) and not that the personal material
doesn't have some
entertainment value (mostly as sick comedy).
But enough is
enough. It's time to stop. And about
lawyers -- I
wouldn't hang out at a party where a lawyer is
standing there
saying "watch your words everybody" and
I don't intend to
hang out at a mailing list where this
is happening
either.
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:25:42 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Clarify this situation
Levi Asher wrote:
>
> Some lawyer
wrote:
> > I will
not make public, even to Nicosia any bc mail.
And if I were to
> > ever
get involved with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post this
> > to the
group. I do not want anyone to share any
thoughts or ideas with
> > me,
unless you understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia, but
> > will
not republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.
> >
> > Just a
lawyerly warning to try to keep it straight.
>
> Many weeks
ago, when Gerry Nicosia first showed up on this list,
> I wrote a
friendly message saying "Glad to have Gerry N. here,
> but I hope
we'll talk about things other than estates and wills,
> and that
we'll resist all getting dragged down into the legal
> mire
together and ruining the friendly atmosphere of the list".
>
> Now half of
us hate the other half, and now we've got a lawyer
> telling us
to all watch our words.
>
> Way to not
get dragged into the mire, guys ...
>
> I'm *this*
close to hitting "unsubscribe" -- the only thing
> that's
stopping me is that I know Bill Gargan worked hard
> putting this
list together and I think it's really pathetic
> the way a
few people are shitting all over it, and I don't
> want to give
up hope just yet that the list won't survive.
>
> Not that the
legal material isn't relevant (but *WE GET
> THE POINT
ALREADY*) and not that the personal material
> doesn't have
some entertainment value (mostly as sick comedy).
> But enough
is enough. It's time to stop. And about
> lawyers -- I
wouldn't hang out at a party where a lawyer is
> standing
there saying "watch your words everybody" and
> I don't
intend to hang out at a mailing list where this
> is happening
either.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>
-----------------------------------------------------
Levi-
Thanks for
putting it so succinctly.
The best lack all
conviction
and the worst are
full of a passionate intensity
WB Yeats from an
imperfect memory.
James Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:46:32 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: For Gerry and friends
Well you've
managed to be more abusive here than the whole estate battle has
been, haven't
you.
For my part, I
don't agree at all. I've been on this list for two years and
sat through some
really boring self-indulgent crap, so if you don't like a
thread, the
delete button is available to you.
I think this
match-up, as it moves past the twelve-round mark, has become
fascinating. At
first, as Jerry I think said, it wasn't clear which side an
outside observer
would be on. But as the same questions keep being asked,
and instead of
answers we get wild abuse and ridiculous allegations, I think
this list is
getting a feel for what may have been going on over the years
here..
This is an open
discussion forum to discuss matters pertaining to the Beats,
their writing and
their lives. There have been some wild discussions and
some funky
discussions that have had much less to do with the Beats than
what is happening
with Jack Kerouac's estate, his books and his archive. I'm
interested in
seeing where this goes - nowhere is still a destination - and
I think it's a
completely appropriate forum to discuss it in.
Nick W-W
>Everyone's
tried to be nice about this estate bullshit.
I can't be polite
>anymore. Just shut the fuck up. For fuck's sake, shut the fuckin fuck up
>you stupid
fuckin fucks. Form a splinter list so
you can continue you're
>childish
little rants. You're stifling those with
interesting things to
>say. Your:
You're a liar. No, you're a
liar. Liar. Prove it.
Where's
>the
evidence. It's all tiresome. I'd like to challenge... you and your
>friends to
shut the fuck up. I'll give you two days
to finish your little
>squabble. After that, I'm bringing out the big fuckin
guns. Peace.
>
>
James M.
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:56:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Time magazine-Kerouac ....and Life
If you like
collecting Beat stuff, it's very worthwhile trawling through
second hand
bookstores and magazine places for old copies of LIFE etc (also
Playboy and
similar 'gentlemens' magazines). Certainly you can come across
some of JK's
articles in them, and often articles about Beat 'lifestyle'.
Unless the owner
is clued in, you can pick these up fro as little as 50
cents each, and
there are
fascinating
insights into how the writing was received at the time.
Especially about
how the Beats (and rock'n'roll and James Dean etc) were
causing the End
of Civilization.
Nick
Also, someone else mentioned articles that
>appeared in Life
magazine during the fifties about the Beats. If that person
>recognizes
themselves I'd like a tip to the date/writer of the article.
>Specifically,
I wondered if the article(s) in Life might have been written
>by Loudon
Wainwright II.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:45:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: to levi and all
In-Reply-To: <199705231458.HAA13490@netcom.netcom.com>
levi, i too have
considered leaving list only days after
resubbing (off
list for personal
life stuff, not controversy). and then i said, no way no
shit. i remember
first coming on this list like a happy puppy (and NOBODY
here has to apologize
fer street-fighting words flung in all directions by
that whole scene)
what kept me on list was to retain sense of humor and NOT
BOW DOWN to the
then reigning netiquette that all personal. etc posts be
kept off the
mmore academically oriented list at the time
ironically many
of those folks (you know who they are), are now chatting
about totally
personal posts, which confuse me, and jesum crow (as they say
up here in these
parts), watching that particular pendulum swinging back
and forth put a reel
nasty crik in me ear and neck i tell you no lie.
but anyway, levi:
i refuse to be pushed out or around by this one. we have
ALL worked so
hard to build a community that not only discussed beat works
to sharing poetry
and memories and bitter/sweet feelings.
i'll continue to
post thoughts poems and my occasional soap box oration, as
whole mess is
about to implode from gaseous egos involved.
i dont care if i
never wrote a published word and dont know the 'right'
people:
i know i have
integrity, and when i am gone from this life, i'll leave a
trail of
kindlyness behind me, just that is more than enough for me.
fer yr perusal, i
have concluded with a few word from ole ezra pound:
LLXI
what thou lovest
well remains,
the rest is dross
what thou lov'st
well shall not be reft from thee
what thou lov'st
well is thy true heritage
whose world, or
mine or theirs
or is it of none?
first came the
seen, then thus the palpable
Elysium, though it were in the halls of
hell,
what thou lovest
well is thy true heritage
the ants a
centaur in his dragon world.
pull down thy
vanity, it is not man
made courage, or
made order, or made grace,
pull down thy vanity, i say pull down,
learn of the
green world what can be thy place
in scaled
invention or true artistry,
pull down thy
vanity,
paquin pull down!
the green casque
has outdone your eloquence.
"master
thyself, then others shall thee beare"
pull down thy vanity, i say pull down.
thou art a beaten
dog beneath the hail,
a wollen magpie
in a fitful sun,
half black half
white
nor knowst'ou
wing from tail
pull down they
vanity
how mean thy hates
fostered in
falsity,
pull down thy vanity
,
rathe to destroy,
niggard in charity,
pull down thy
vanity,
i say pull down.
but to have done
instead of not doing
this is not vanity
to have, with
decency, knocked
that a blunt
should open
to have gathered from the air a live
tradition
or from a fine
ole eye the unquenched flame
this is not
vanity.
here error is all in the not done,
all in the
diffidence which faltered,
oooommmm
peace
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:02:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: to levi and all
At 11:45 AM
5/23/97 -0400, Marie wrote:
>oooommmm
Or AG's mantra:
AHH
The way things
have been recently it's more
like
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!
{;^>
Mike (who's still
hangin' on by his fingernails)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:34:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Remove Me
REMOVE BEAT-L
Paul A. Maher Jr.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:37:30 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Boring Anal post (one swear word, one
capital letter word,
no swallowing)
I hate myself for
doing this, but in response to Lisa's angry post, this is
the BEAT-L rubric
I received when I joined the list in June 1995. It's NOT
just a list about
Beat Literature, it's an open list about the *lives and
works* of the
Beat Generation. I think the estate discussion falls into that
exactly. I think
the hostility of the exchange shows us who have not been
involved very
clearly what's been brewing for years and years and how
distateful it all
has been.
It's also
produced a lot of very interesting information underneath the
abuse. We have a
substantial reprint list and I'm very interested in
publishing the
Kerouac works that have fallen into the public domain. I'm
delighted to see
at last the actual list of what archives are at the NYPL.
It must only be a
tiny fraction of what will eventually (hopefully) be
there. It's such
a pity that Jack didn't live long enough to sort this out
himself. The John
Cage archives (or one third of them - he split up
manuscripts,
correspondence, and other articles between three places) are at
Northwestern and
are so meticulous and so organized and so easy for scholars
to use. I have to
say that the list did look pretty meager nearly twenty
years after Jack
died, but there quite clearly are reasons for that (good
and bad, I would
guess).
I must say I
found the suggestion that we as JK fans on the list should be
grateful for what
the estate chooses to release and stop whining to be very
insulting. We're
not dogs waiting for bones. I'm sure we'll fork out the
readies for Some
of The Dharma and that the royalties will be plentiful, but
don't fucking
patronize please.
Nick
BEAT-L rubric
follows
Return-Path:
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 15:33:59 -0400
>X-Ph:
V3.12@relay
>From:
"L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8b)"
<LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Subject: Welcome to BEAT-L
>To: Nick
Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
>Reply-To:
BEAT-L-Request@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>X-Lsv-Listid:
BEAT-L
>
>Welcome to
BEAT-L, an online discussion forum devoted to the study of
>the lives and
works of the writers of the Beat Generation, especially
>Jack Kerouac,
Allen Ginsberg, and William Burroughs.
BEAT-L is an
>unmoderated
list open to anyone interested in the Beat Generation.
>Scholars,
writers, students, laymen -- all are welcome to join the
>discussion
and share their ideas. In addition to
providing an outlet
>for
discussion of Beat texts, the listserv is intended to facilitate
>scholarly
communication and to serve as a bulletin board or calendar
>for poetry
readings, announcements of new publications, upcoming
>conferences
and other Beat related events.
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President, Illinois
Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:30:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: So Relax - (or I'll kill you)
A very nice
assesment, Paul, of some people trying to tell others "what is
Beat, what is not
Beat" and what does or does not belong on this list...
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:32:46 -0400
Reply-To: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Diane M. Homza"
<ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Truce-Peace
Reply to message
from philzi@TIAC.NET of Thu, 22 May
>
>It is obvious
by Lisa and Marie's and others posts that people are sick to
>death of this
estate talk. I have been on the list for a few years now and
>have enjoyed
talking about Kerouac. It is hard to keep quite when you know
>something is
being said that isn't right. Especially for a hot-tempered
>Frenchman
like myself. But apparently people have had enough. I am willing
>to call it
quits about the estate stuff if everyone else will. Hell even if
>they don't
stop. I WILL. Let's talk KEROUAC like the good old days. Let's
>end it all
right here and now. No more jabs after the bell rings.Phil Chaput
Kerouac, Kerouac,
Kerouac...Kerouac wasn't the only Beat, you know!!!!!
Diane.
--
This sesame seed
is bigger than my head!
--the guy
from the McDonald's commercial
Diane Marie Homza
ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:52:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: The
Kerouac Quarterly
I am signing off
this list because I find it too distracting to my work. I
am in the editing
stage of Vol. I, No. 2 and writing Looking For Jack: The
Literary
Influences of Jack Kerouac for publication this summer.
For subscribers
to this list, I will sell the second quarterly for $2.00.
Please say in the
envelope that you are from the Beat-L list. This offer
will remain for
the next three weeks and then will go back to the regular
price of $5.00
(USA) $7.00 (overseas and Canada). For overseas and Canadian
subscribers to
beat-L, add $2.00 for postage. Thanks, Paul A. Maher Jr.
You are free to
e-mail me privately at Mapaul@pipeline.com for info on
forthcoming
publications. Also, Water Row Books can help you if I am unable
to get to you
right away. Waterrow@aol.com
Thanks in advance,
Regrads to all, Paul again....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:44:39 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Early Morning Thoughts
Dear Lisa and all
my friends at the Beat-List, May 23,
1997
I said I'd write no more, but by the
last 40 posts, it looks like
people still have
some undigested matters to mull over.
I'd like to help
people examine
some of these matters.
I promise, Lisa, not to let my anger
spill over into angry language
again--regardless
of how many bogus charges are brought against me (they
haven't yet
accused me of rape or murder, but I expect those are coming soon).
Here are some early-morning thoughts:
1) Mr. Chaput claims his brother-in-law
told him it was illegal for
me to sell
xeroxes of Kerouac letters to the U Mass, Lowell library, when
those xeroxes
were made for private study (they are all covered with my
marginal
annotations), used for material in MEMORY BABE, and were included
in a far larger
collection of study materials, aimed at helping other
students and
scholars to learn more about Jack Kerouac.
Would Mr. Chaput
please provide
the statute of law that spells out the crime I have
supposedly
committed?
2) Mr. Chaput has been brandishing Jan
Kerouac's income
statements--as if
the amount of money she earned per year had anything to do
with what is
being done to Jack Kerouac's archive.
BUT HERE'S A QUESTION:
Will Mr. Chaput
please tell us where he got Jan Kerouac's income tax
returns? These are absolutely confidential
documents--the IRS will not give
them out without
an authorized signature. The only other
source is Sterling
Lord, who was
both Mr. Sampas's agent and Ms. Kerouac's agent. If Mr. Lord
is giving out Jan
Kerouac's income statements, he is breaching his
agent-client
confidentiality--even if he gives them to Mr. Sampas.
3) Mr. Chaput claims that none of the
material he posts here comes
from Mr.
Sampas. Yet where did Jan Kerouac's
income statements come from?
Also, Mr. Chaput
reports the date and time of a phone call Sampas's lawyer
George Tobia made
to a SAN FRANCISCO RADIO STATION 2 1/2 years ago, talking
about the warrant
for child support that Jan Kerouac sold, privately, to a
dealer to help
bring her cousin to New York for the filing of her lawsuit
against the
Sampases. How on earth did Mr. Chaput
know of that phone call?
I can't imagine
his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations
in Lowell,
Massachusetts?
4) We have seen an impressive list of
Kerouac materials now in the
New York Public
Library, but nobody mentions that the New York Public
Library has been
building a Kerouac/Beat collection for the last 30 years,
and that they
have purchased items from many different people, including a
large collection
from Ann Charters two years ago. At
least half a dozen
other U.S.
libraries are building Kerouac collections: Reed College
(Portland),
Newberry Library (Chicago), Humanities Research Center (Texas),
Stanford, SUNY
Buffalo, and Bancroft (Berkeley), among others.
I am happy for what is in the New York
Public Library. But it is,
at most, 5% of
the entire Jack Kerouac archive.
Librarian Rodney Phillips
claimed to me
that many of the letters there are in xerox.
And as I have
pointed out before,
the way to place an archive on deposit is in one body,
at one time, so
that all of it may be catalogued together.
By "gutting" an
archive, piece by
piece, one virtually guarantees that no other major
institution is
ever going to pay top price for it again.
Mr. Phillips has limited money at his
disposal. He could come up
with one million
dollars for the entire archive, but he cannot come up with
hundreds of
thousands of dollars for individual manuscripts, which is what
Mr. Sampas has asked. So Mr. Phillips, doing the best he can, buys
a few
letters here, a
few notebooks there. He hopes that
somehow the NYPL will be
able to acquire
the rest of the Kerouac Archive. But at
the pace we are
going, this
piecemeal sale could go on for twenty or thirty more years. Who
is to say that
the NYPL will continue to have funding, continue to have the
same interest in
Kerouac, decade after decade? AND IF
THEY DON'T, WHAT
OTHER LIBRARY IS
GOING TO JUMP IN AND PAY TOP DOLLAR FOR A "GUTTED" ARCHIVE?
None that I know
of.
Besides, the careful sorting, filing,
and cataloguing that would be
necessary for a
huge, complex archive like this CAN BEST BE DONE WHEN THE
WHOLE ARCHIVE IS
PRESENT AT ONE TIME, IN ONE PLACE.
Librarians may find,
for example, that
particular breast pocket notebooks were incorporated in an
early version of
a certain novel, on one of the many scrolls Kerouac typed
on, but they can
only make such comparisons if they have the entire archive
in front of them
as they work.
Enough for now,
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:49:38 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
To the
"General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick...
Lisa, you may
think you know more than the rest of us, and God Bless you I'm
sure you do about
some things, but that doesn't give you the right to tell
everyone else
what to do.
Lisa, if you're
getting 500 e-mails a day why don't you figure out a way to
manage that. I'm
no tech heavy but I figured out very early on that AOL
allows me to have
more than one screen name and this one you see here is
dedicated to the
Beat-l only. If a techno-phobe like me
can manage that
trick it oughta
be a slam dunk for somene who prides herself on her technical
prowess.
Congratulations,
Lisa, you're the first person to ever tell me to "Fuck-Off"
on this or any
other list. Put's you in very good
company with the
ever-mature Mr.
Chaput who's very first post to Nicosia included the essence
of maturity
"Fuck You Gerry".
Lisa, you amaze
me in other ways too. You say you're on
"auto-delete" for
all estate
related posts and then proceed to tell us everything that is being
said. You are one
amazing person.
With all due
respect to you and evryone else calling for the silencing of
this thread - hit
your delete keys. Unsubscribe. Do whatever floats your
boat, but don't
you dare tell me this topic is not relevant.
The tone is
harsh, yes. And no one recognizes that more than me. And you aren't helping
to calm it by
telling me or anyone else to "Fuck-Off". But the topic is
relevant as hell.
Jerry Cimino
*************************************************************************
A general
person-liking "I don't claim to be better than anyone else" guy.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:05:06 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Influences on the Beats
de-lurking for a
moment in the midst of the great estate battle...
Has anyone looked
closely into the influence of Lionel Trilling on JK and
AG while they
were at Columbia? Barry Miles' bio on AG mainly talks about
how Lionel and
Diana helped AG get commited, and other bios are equally
sparse. Anyone
have anything else to add?
jd
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:09:25 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: The
Kerouac Quarterly
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.32.19970523165241.006a3d48@pop.pipeline.com>
i would love to
take a hold of this feal yr offering HOWEVER my $ is
alread in the mail
for issues #2 & 3. no if its easier for you to charge
me full price for
both issues thats ok. if youd rather extend the beat for
beat-L members to
me as well, thats cool too. whatevers easiest.
thanks for the
kind offer & i hope maybe i'll see you on beat-L again some
day when the heat
has gone down.thanks again
yrs
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:25:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bruce Hartman
<bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
Subject: The Music. . .
Beat friends,
I've started to have a quiet
conversation off list with Ms. Laura Moja (of
Ufficio Stampa
Teatro Smeraldo http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo) concerning the
connection
between Music and the Beats. Having
virtually no hard knowledge
of Parker, Diz,
Monk, and the boys, my side of the conversation has been
mostly limited to
a few ideas I've been considering about Coltrane. So, I
figured it might
be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and screaming,
into the
discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side thread for
those who are
bored with WWIII.
Antoine, I know you're out there buddy,
what can you offer up? What was
about be-bop that
so enthralled the entire scene? Don't
get me wrong, I
dig the music,
but my tastes slip a bit further up the timeline to hard bop
& free
jazz. Be-bop seems such a
"happy" music, at least the bit I've been
exposed to.
My best to all,
Bruce
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:06:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Early Morning Thoughts
At 09:44 AM 5/23/97
-0700, you wrote:
>Dear Lisa and
all my friends at the Beat-List, May
23, 1997
>
> I said I'd write no more, but by the
last 40 posts, it looks like
>people still
have some undigested matters to mull over.
I'd like to help
>people examine
some of these matters.
> I promise, Lisa, not to let my anger
spill over into angry language
>again--regardless
of how many bogus charges are brought against me (they
>haven't yet
accused me of rape or murder, but I expect those are coming soon).
> Here are some early-morning thoughts:
> 1) Mr. Chaput claims his brother-in-law
told him it was illegal for
>me to sell
xeroxes of Kerouac letters to the U Mass, Lowell library, when
>those xeroxes
were made for private study (they are all covered with my
>marginal
annotations), used for material in MEMORY BABE, and were included
>in a far
larger collection of study materials, aimed at helping other
>students and
scholars to learn more about Jack Kerouac.
Would Mr. Chaput
>please
provide the statute of law that spells out the crime I have
>supposedly
committed?
> 2) Mr. Chaput has been brandishing Jan
Kerouac's income
>statements--as
if the amount of money she earned per year had anything to do
>with what is
being done to Jack Kerouac's archive.
BUT HERE'S A QUESTION:
>Will Mr.
Chaput please tell us where he got Jan Kerouac's income tax
>returns? These are absolutely confidential
documents--the IRS will not give
>them out
without an authorized signature. The only
other source is Sterling
>Lord, who was
both Mr. Sampas's agent and Ms. Kerouac's agent. If Mr. Lord
>is giving out
Jan Kerouac's income statements, he is breaching his
>agent-client
confidentiality--even if he gives them to Mr. Sampas.
> 3) Mr. Chaput claims that none of the
material he posts here comes
>from Mr.
Sampas. Yet where did Jan Kerouac's
income statements come from?
>Also, Mr.
Chaput reports the date and time of a phone call Sampas's lawyer
>George Tobia
made to a SAN FRANCISCO RADIO STATION 2 1/2 years ago, talking
>about the
warrant for child support that Jan Kerouac sold, privately, to a
>dealer to
help bring her cousin to New York for the filing of her lawsuit
>against the
Sampases. How on earth did Mr. Chaput
know of that phone call?
>I can't
imagine his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations
>in Lowell,
Massachusetts?
(note****a tape
of this radio conversation has widely circulated from a
source unnamed in
California...)
> 4) We have seen an impressive list of
Kerouac materials now in the
>New York
Public Library, but nobody mentions that the New York Public
>Library has
been building a Kerouac/Beat collection for the last 30 years,
>and that they
have purchased items from many different people, including a
>large
collection from Ann Charters two years ago.
At least half a dozen
>other U.S.
libraries are building Kerouac collections: Reed College
>(Portland),
Newberry Library (Chicago), Humanities Research Center (Texas),
>Stanford,
SUNY Buffalo, and Bancroft (Berkeley), among others.
note****Is that
not what we as scholars want?
> I am happy for what is in the New York
Public Library. But it is,
>at most, 5%
of the entire Jack Kerouac archive.
Librarian Rodney Phillips
>claimed to me
that many of the letters there are in xerox.
note******They
are real bonafide letters from Jack's carbon or hand....no
library will buy
a xerox letter anyways. Many of the letters I mentioned
were sold in huge
chunks and I will publish the dates in the quarterly.
And as I have
>pointed out
before, the way to place an archive on deposit is in one body,
>at one time,
so that all of it may be catalogued together.
By "gutting" an
>archive,
piece by piece, one virtually guarantees that no other major
>institution
is ever going to pay top price for it again.
> Mr. Phillips has limited money at his
disposal. He could come up
>with one
million dollars for the entire archive, but he cannot come up with
>hundreds of thousands
of dollars for individual manuscripts, which is what
>Mr. Sampas
has asked. So Mr. Phillips, doing the
best he can, buys a few
>letters here,
a few notebooks there. He hopes that
somehow the NYPL will be
>able to
acquire the rest of the Kerouac Archive.
But at the pace we are
>going, this
piecemeal sale could go on for twenty or thirty more years. Who
>is to say
that the NYPL will continue to have funding, continue to have the
>same interest
in Kerouac, decade after decade? AND IF
THEY DON'T, WHAT
>OTHER LIBRARY
IS GOING TO JUMP IN AND PAY TOP DOLLAR FOR A "GUTTED" ARCHIVE?
>None that I
know of.
note**** This is
not an unusual phenomenon in depositing archives. Ralph
waldo Emerson's
letters, journals, lectures are spread out scantly ALL OVER
THE PLACE.
> Besides, the careful sorting, filing,
and cataloguing that would be
>necessary for
a huge, complex archive like this CAN BEST BE DONE WHEN THE
>WHOLE ARCHIVE
IS PRESENT AT ONE TIME, IN ONE PLACE.
Librarians may find,
>for example,
that particular breast pocket notebooks were incorporated in an
>early version
of a certain novel, on one of the many scrolls Kerouac typed
>on, but they
can only make such comparisons if they have the entire archive
>in front of
them as they work
note****but, they
are not only concerned about K's work in there. They have
Ginsberg's stuff,
Louis Zukofsky's, Charles Olson's, Robert Creeley's,
denise
Levertov's, Robert Duncan's etc. etc. They do in fact hold a unique
retrospective by
chance and not by design of the whole Beat Movement that
can only be
enhanced by the objects that are placed there as well as
Kerouac's. All
these things will resolve themselves with time. I think right
now it is more
important to get these things published that aren't. We could
have easily been
denied this when Stella Sampas was alive and did not choose
to publish
ANYTHING.
>
> Paul Maher
Jr.....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:00:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Marie and Ezra Pound ...to levi and all
Marie, (long rambling discussion with lots of
twists and turns!)
An apt comment and a perfect Pound
commentary! I can't wait for
Lizzie to get
home to show this to her. She'll be delighted after listening
to me moan and
whine about the estate battle and the recent arrival of a
practitioner of
Willie the Shake's least-favorite occupation....(don't mean
you David...you
do legal work without being a lawyer right?)
Levi displayed his great experience and
insight in his prescient
comment upon the
arrival of Gerry Nicosia. I wouldn't really have wanted to
miss it, but it
has become so over the top with all the personal attacks,
cheap shots, and
general ranting. Politeness and kindness, despite
differences of
opinion have - most of the time - been
the watchword of this
list. Whenever we
have slipped away from that it has become a burden.
Just a speculative comment on the
accusations directed at Rod Anstee
- which I guess parallels
the same attitude to Johnny Depp's raincoat
purchase. We have
heard very accusatory comments made about material being
bought from the
Kerouac "archives". Excuse me, but it is completely lost on
me what the sale
of a raincoat (nothing in the coat pockets I assume!?!) has
to do with the
archives. It's memorabilia and it's interesting, but it's not
part of a
literary archive any more than his desk chair, desk, typewriter,
etc. It might be
nice to have them in one place all together for viewing,
but it's not in
the same league as notebooks, drafts, etc.
Similarly, Rod Anstee was singled out
for buying material - books I
assume - from
Jack's library. Perhaps if a book was full of dated references
/ annotations it
could be legitimately claimed to be a loss to the research
community. But is
that the case? I'll bet that it hasn't been the case given
John Sampas's
apparent protectiveness towards the Kerouac archives.
Rod is a collector, particularly, of
different editions of "On The
Road" - any
and all languages, the more the merrier. In one exchange of
e-mails with me
he mentioned looking for Finnish and, I think, Malay
language editions
and I gave him the e-mail address of a guy in Finland who
ran a great
Little Richard webst...really!
I know that Jack Kerouac particularly
relished having lots of
editions of his
books and I'm guessing that that's the kind of thing Rod
would be very
interested in. Again this doesn't sound like pillaging the
archives and all
I/we have to go on is innuendo laden comments.
Regarding the estate discussion, I
would welcome more of it if only
if the rancour
and spite and accusations of conspiracy were kept out of it.
One suggestion
I'll make here that would be an excellent and interesting
contribution for
someone to make - not me! - is a chronology showing who
died when, who
sued when, who married when, etc. in the intertwined lives of
the Kerouac and
Sampas clans. Phil's mention of the Time Magazine timeline
put that thought
in my head and I've frequently had trouble getting the
sequence of
events and intervals of time clear. Gerry Nicosia - you probably
have the most
complete grasp of this....
Thanks again Marie for the Pound and to
Levi, Jerry Cimino, James
for the Yeats
(the new Foster biography is great my wife says), Wes
Lundberg, David
Rhaesa and many others for the measured tones of their
contributions.
Gerry Nicosia would do well to follow Wes's good advice and
not feel so hard
done by. I like having Gerry on the list - but I like
having Atilla and
Phil and Paul Maher and the other co-conspirators on the
list as well! I'm
not going anywhere and I hope sincerely that Levi, Marie,
Mike Cakebread et
al (Al Sublette?) stick around also. I've still got way
too much to
learn!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:08:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
Jerry,
Can I borrow your sig file? It was the
best part of the whole riposte!
....which was right-on!
Antoine
A general
person-liking "I don't claim to be better than anyone else" guy.
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:46:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: lawyers in the mix
Im sorry, but I
don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer
in
the mix, and
other going ons are 'helping' anything.
woah, as a
lawyer, I am like the government and I am here to help.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:47:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: more thoughts to ponder:on debate vs
mudslinging,
passion vs aggression
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 07:08:22 -0400
from
<country@SOVER.NET>
Yea, Marie's
right...let's let all this agression go!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:50:42 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 08:35:33 -0400
from <cake@IONLINE.NET>
On Fri, 23 May
1997 08:35:33 -0400 M. Cakebread said:
>At 02:05 AM
5/23/97 -0700, Lisa Rabey wrote:
>
>>This is
NOT about censorship, book burning or anything else.
>>Its about
common sense and having MANNERS. I am
>>NOT the
only one who feels this way, but I may be the
>>most
vocal.
>
>Hey Lisa et
al,
>
>I don't
believe the issue is "censorship."
Nobody wants
>the
estate/papers discussion to end (major part of Kerouac
>history). I think the general plea has been for the
>mean,
sarcastic, cheap-shots to be done in private
>e-mail. This isn't censorship, it is a request that
people
>stick to the
facts and be respectful of one another.
We
>may not all
agree on things, but were does meaness,
>sarcasm and
daggers get us, NOWHERE! Just back into
>a stupid
repetative cycle of bullshit. Just my
feelings.
>Flame away...
>
>Mike
Mike, you're
absolutely right. The Kerouac Archives
are an important topic for
the list but
we've had too much repetition and too much name calling. Everyone
on the list now
has heard both sides of the argument. If
there's anthing new,
I'm sure all of
us would appreciate hearing it in a CIVIL, NON-AGRESSIVE forum.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:52:55 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Music...
Hello,
Bruce! You're not dragging ME in kicking
and screaming... I love
discussing the
beats and jazz (these are a couple of my favorite things). As a
lover of be-bop
and all forms of jazz, I would strongly recommend immersing
yourself in
Charlie Parker ("Bebop and Bird, Vol 1" is a good intro), John
Coltrane (a
favorite of mine, for its interpretive power, is "My Favorite
Things"), as
well as Dizzy Gillespie and a hundred others as well. Just allow
yourself to be
caught up in the music's movement. It
speaks. It is poetic.
About six months
ago, I reread _On The Road_ with Parker playing in the
background as I
read, and some portions of the novel were so much more powerful
as a result.
I can't emphasize
it enough... develop your own perspective on the relationship
between bebop and
the beats. As I reread that sentence, it
could be taken
wrong: don't take
it wrong. I'm perfectly serious when I
say that developing
your own
perspective will be the best approach... developing your own means
creating your
own, personal experience around the blown music and the written
words.
This may be
useful to you: In teaching a novel course last quarter, I played
some Charlie
Parker in class, pointing out how he deviates from the established
pattern of the
musical rhythm (which is maintained by other band members as a
background), punctuating
certain parts of the tune. We were
reading Ralph
Ellison's
_Invisible Man_ at the time, so we read portions (the dream sequences)
of the novel
immediately after listening to Parker.
Students--all of whom were
skeptical when I
walked in with my boom box, mind you--were amazed at the
similarities in
such apparently different mediums.
Ellison uses certain
repetitive words
in the same way that Parker uses certain repetitive notes. I
think the same
can work for Kerouac, et al... especially for someone like you,
who likes jazz
and loves the beats.
Hope this
helps...
Regards,
---Wes
>Beat friends,
>
> I've started
to have a quiet conversation off list with Ms. Laura Moja
>(of
>Ufficio
Stampa Teatro Smeraldo http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo) concerning the
>connection
between Music and the Beats. Having
virtually no hard knowledge
>of Parker,
Diz, Monk, and the boys, my side of the conversation has been
>mostly
limited to a few ideas I've been considering about Coltrane. So, I
>figured it
might be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and screaming,
>into the
discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side thread for
>those who are
bored with WWIII.
> Antoine, I know you're out there buddy,
what can you offer up? What
>was
>about be-bop
that so enthralled the entire scene?
Don't get me wrong, I
>dig the
music, but my tastes slip a bit further up the timeline to hard bop
>& free
jazz. Be-bop seems such a
"happy" music, at least the bit I've been
>exposed to.
>
>My best to
all,
>
>Bruce
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:57:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Beat History
Would Tom Wolfe
of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of
Fear and Loathing
qualify as "beat."
And yet, I am
wondering if there is not at least two threads of
literature
throughout history. I don't know enough
and am not well read
enough to deal
with this idea on my own. But it seems
to me that you
have two spirits,
one which is the "voice" of society and the other
which is the
"voice" of those who are beaten out of society. If so, it
would run
throughout time. I would like to know if
any literary
teachers,
commentators etc, have ever explored the idea.
Back to Homer,
was he beat or
was he society. What about Thomas
Aquianas? Maybe this
too large of an
idea, but I would like to see the result of a study of
this idea. We have always been beat.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:00:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ann Charters Interview
A number of weeks
ago we were told on the Beat-l by a number of people we
should be doing
our own research. As some people said
the Ann Charters
Interview by Dan
Barth would shed some light on the topic I asked (twice) for
someone to
summarize what it said. No one did.
I would like to
thank Greg Severance on this list. Greg
E-mailed Dan Barth
directly asking
Dan to forward me the interview. Dan did
so and here is my
summary:
The article is
probably about 5000 words. Barth
interviewed Charters on
3/28/95 in San
Francisco while Ann was on a West Coast tour for Jack Kerouac:
Selected Letters
Pt I, 1940-1956. Most of the interview
focuses on Ann
Charters' life
and background, the book tour, the book itself, various JK
letters in
general and in particular. About 1000
words or so concerns itself
with the Kerouac
estate debate.
To summarize, Ann
Charters does not say anything that disagrees with what
Gerry Nicosia has
been saying from the day he joined this list.
To the
contrary, what
she does say *substantiates* the points Nicosia has been
making all
along. A quote:
Dan Barth: As far as you know has there been any selling
off piecemeal?
Ann
Charters: There has been some. I don't know how much because Sampas
doesn't tell
me. Why should he? I'm not getting any income from it and I
don't, frankly,
have a relationship with John Sampas that is one of
confidante. I work for hire, his terms. He gets the final say on
everything.
Well, folks, I've
done my due diligence. Ann Charters may
not be talking on
this list and she
may not be the president of the Gerry Nicosia fan club, but
she doesn't
contradict his arguments either, at least not in this interview.
In fact, she supports them.
By the way,
before sending this out I e-mailed Dan Barth summarizing for him
my conclusions
and asking his permission to post this summary.
He e-mailed
me back saying my
conclusions sounded accurate to him and to feel free to
post it to the
list.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:07:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: Open Letter to Mr. Nicosia
Wes Lundburg
wrote:
> Mr. Nicosia:
>
> I'm glad
you're moving on to other topics, Mr. Nicosia.
As Mr.
> Bealieu
said,
> we're glad
you're here and look forward to your contributions to
> beat-l. This
> is a weird
kind of community in cyberspace.
Sometimes I love the
> list, and
> other times
I don't... but my family is kind of like that, too.
> There's a
> certain
wisdom in knowing when to drop an issue.
>
> All the
best, and with immense respect,
>
> ---Wes
Lundburg
>
wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us
I signed onto
this list because of my love for the works of Jack
Kerouac, and
other beat poets. To be able to be on a
list where I can
receive comments
from Gerry Nicosia, I can not think of a better place
to be. As a lawyer, I say fight out the other stuff
in the courtroom.
No point in being
cross examined from your posts to this news group.
And I would not
want to lose Gerry's imput because of this type of
atmosphere.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:24:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Music...
What Wes says is
so right - but remember also it wasn't coincidental - the
way Charlie
Parker played was a huge influence on how they all wrote, and
certainly at some
points you can see a concious effort to do in words what
the be-bop
players were doing with music. Jack
wrote some jazz criticism as
well, was really
into it all, in fact the main reason I love his writing
more than the
others so much is the way he captures the swing of bop
Nick
>Hello,
Bruce! You're not dragging ME in kicking
and screaming... I love
>discussing
the beats and jazz (these are a couple of my favorite things). As a
>lover of
be-bop and all forms of jazz, I would strongly recommend immersing
>yourself in
Charlie Parker ("Bebop and Bird, Vol 1" is a good intro), John
>Coltrane (a
favorite of mine, for its interpretive power, is "My Favorite
>Things"),
as well as Dizzy Gillespie and a hundred others as well. Just allow
>yourself to be
caught up in the music's movement. It
speaks. It is poetic.
>About six
months ago, I reread _On The Road_ with Parker playing in the
>background as
I read, and some portions of the novel were so much more powerful
>as a result.
>
>I can't
emphasize it enough... develop your own perspective on the relationship
>between bebop
and the beats. As I reread that
sentence, it could be taken
>wrong: don't
take it wrong. I'm perfectly serious
when I say that developing
>your own
perspective will be the best approach... developing your own means
>creating your
own, personal experience around the blown music and the written
>words.
>
>This may be
useful to you: In teaching a novel course last quarter, I played
>some Charlie
Parker in class, pointing out how he deviates from the established
>pattern of
the musical rhythm (which is maintained by other band members as a
>background),
punctuating certain parts of the tune.
We were reading Ralph
>Ellison's
_Invisible Man_ at the time, so we read portions (the dream
sequences)
>of the novel
immediately after listening to Parker.
Students--all of whom were
>skeptical
when I walked in with my boom box, mind you--were amazed at the
>similarities
in such apparently different mediums.
Ellison uses certain
>repetitive
words in the same way that Parker uses certain repetitive notes. I
>think the
same can work for Kerouac, et al... especially for someone like you,
>who likes
jazz and loves the beats.
>
>Hope this
helps...
>
>Regards,
>---Wes
>
>
>>Beat
friends,
>>
>> I've
started to have a quiet conversation off list with Ms. Laura Moja
>>(of
>>Ufficio
Stampa Teatro Smeraldo http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo) concerning the
>>connection
between Music and the Beats. Having
virtually no hard knowledge
>>of
Parker, Diz, Monk, and the boys, my side of the conversation has been
>>mostly
limited to a few ideas I've been considering about Coltrane. So, I
>>figured
it might be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and screaming,
>>into the
discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side thread for
>>those who
are bored with WWIII.
>> Antoine, I know you're out there buddy,
what can you offer up? What
>>was
>>about
be-bop that so enthralled the entire scene?
Don't get me wrong, I
>>dig the
music, but my tastes slip a bit further up the timeline to hard bop
>>&
free jazz. Be-bop seems such a
"happy" music, at least the bit I've been
>>exposed
to.
>>
>>My best
to all,
>>
>>Bruce
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil Carborundum
Illegitimis*
It's better to
die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List Manager,
chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax: 847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:15:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beat History
In-Reply-To: <3385E8A6.CB77F85@scsn.net>
On Fri, 23 May
1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> Would Tom
Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of
> Fear and
Loathing qualify as "beat."
I would say yes
to HST, as beat as Dylan or Garcia or Don McNeill could be.
If anything, it's
guilt by association & friendships & value sharing,
etc. And a
definite no to Wolfe. Yeah he chronicled the bus and helped
develop &
compile the New Journalism but he wasn't, in Kesey's words, a
"warrior."
HST on the other hand was/is (was?) a definite warrior. Where the
Beat stops and a
new generation of warriors take over is anybody's guess --
by the talk on
the list about such things it looks like it'll be debated
until it's actual
past history and the new warriors are making appearances
on David
Letterman explaining the novel they wrote five years earlier about
events a decade
past, or something like that.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:22:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Burroughs
>Burroughs, of
course, is a whole another ballgame, and I'd be
interested as
well
>in hearing what people think
>influenced
him.
was posted by
Mark. Thanks for the post. I enjoyed reviewing it.
I would suggest
his greatest influences were not other writers, they
were, Wilheim
Reich, ie orgone box etc., drugs, and life in a whole
nother lane we
don't even want to know about. That is
my idea on
Burroughs. I never "warmed" up to Naked Lunch
or the Wild Boys, but
without his work,
there would be no Clockwork Orange (at least the
Movie), no Steely
Dan (another name), no Alice Cooper etc.
Thanks for the
ideas.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:40:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: Clarify this situation
Comments: To:
Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>,
James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Levi Asher wrote:
> Some lawyer
wrote:
> > I will
not make public, even to Nicosia any bc mail.
And if I were
> to
> > ever
get involved with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post
> this
> > to the
group. I do not want anyone to share any
thoughts or ideas
> with
> > me,
unless you understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia,
> but
> > will
not republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.
> >
> > Just a
lawyerly warning to try to keep it straight.
>
> Many weeks
ago, when Gerry Nicosia first showed up on this list,
> I wrote a
friendly message saying "Glad to have Gerry N. here,
> but I hope
we'll talk about things other than estates and wills,
> and that
we'll resist all getting dragged down into the legal
> mire
together and ruining the friendly atmosphere of the list".
>
> Now half of
us hate the other half, and now we've got a lawyer
> telling us
to all watch our words.
>
> Way to not
get dragged into the mire, guys ...
>
> I'm *this*
close to hitting "unsubscribe" -- the only thing
> that's
stopping me is that I know Bill Gargan worked hard
> putting this
list together and I think it's really pathetic
> the way a
few people are shitting all over it, and I don't
> want to give
up hope just yet that the list won't survive.
>
> Not that the
legal material isn't relevant (but *WE GET
> THE POINT
ALREADY*) and not that the personal material
> doesn't have
some entertainment value (mostly as sick comedy).
> But enough
is enough. It's time to stop. And about
> lawyers -- I
wouldn't hang out at a party where a lawyer is
> standing
there saying "watch your words everybody" and
> I don't
intend to hang out at a mailing list where this
> is happening
either.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>
-----------------------------------------------------
No, no no, don't read that wrong. I am interested in the questions
that are raised
and the primary one I am interested in as far as legal
matters goes is
whether the collection at UMass-Lowell is properly cared
for. I just saw in my first night on board that
Jerry felt that he has
been slandered
and made the point that this can in fact occur.
I
certainly did not
mean to "threaten" anyone and did not sign onto the
list as a lawyer,
but as a person who has read everything that I could
find or buy by
Kerouac and by Thomas Wolfe. I love Beat
writers and
would like to be
able to discuss them with the likes of Gerry.
I do not
want to see him
run off.
Because I was
curious about what the agendas were, I invited the posters
to discuss it
with me off line, back channel. Then I
realized that I
did not want to
mislead anyone. If offered a case that
had merit to it
from Gerry, then
I might take it. At that point, I would
no longer be
objective. I believe strongly, because my trust has been
violated on
other lists, that
b/c private mail is just that. And up to
the point
that I would get
involved, I have no duty to Gerry, Sampas, etc and just
want to learn.
As I reflected on
my request for information, I realized that if I did
ever get involved
as an attorney, someone who had different interests
might think that
I "duped" them into giving me information. Thus, I
just wanted to state
very openly who I was and to make sure that anyone
who did elect to
back channel me would understand that I probably have a
biasis in favor
of Gerry and that they should only talk to me, I could
end up in court
on the issue, but would not use the infromation from an
email and would
want the "pro Sampas" crowd to be cautious and
understand that I
may not ultimately be neutural.
I just want full
and fair disclosure of the "agenda" that I have, which
is free beer,
more sex, and less work, oh yeah, and for the time being,
I continue to
admire Gerald.
I hope that this
brings some clarity to the message.
Thanks,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Beats out of court
Here's my attempt
at getting the Beats out of court:
1. What do you think was the impetus for
Kerouac's stylistic change after
_The Town and the
City_? Peer pressure? Jazz?
The freedom which comes
with having that
first novel under your belt?
2. What do you make of Burroughs' use of
contemporary music as the score
for some of his
spoken word pieces? Does this move him
into the realm of
postmodernism or
just show him keeping the beat alive?
3. Did anyone see Ginsberg reading the lyrics to
"Miami" by U2 on the T.V.
show about the
making of the album "Pop"?
What did you make of it? I found
the combination
(U2 and Ginsberg) incredibly intriguing.
Answer one or all
one and all.
Let the bickerers
bicker, let the accusors accuse, let the liars lie, let
the lovers love.
James M.
P.S. Whoever said
that the anti-estate thread was like the Ginsberg case
over
"Howl" remember, "comparisons are odious"(<--Kerouac).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Stealing
"Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the
simplest kind of life in a little hut
at the foot of a
mountain. One evening a thief visited
the hut only to
discover there
was nothing in it to steal.
Ryokan returned and caught him. 'You may have come a long way to visit
me,' he told the
prowler, 'and you should not return empty-handed. Please
take my clothes
as a gift.'
The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.
Ryokan sat naked, watching the moon. 'Poor fellow,' he mused, 'I wish
I could give him
this beautiful moon.'
Stolen from _Zen
Flesh, Zen Bones: A Collection of Zen
and Pre-Zen
Writings_. Stolen by Paul Reps. Callously distributed by Anchor Books.
Thoughtlessly
published by Doubleday, 1989.
James M. (<--copyrighted)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:59:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beats out of court
In-Reply-To:
<199705231945.MAA09759@freya.van.hookup.net>
On Fri, 23 May
1997, James William Marshall wrote:
> 1. What do you think was the impetus for
Kerouac's stylistic change after
> _The Town
and the City_? Peer pressure? Jazz? The freedom which comes
> with having
that first novel under your belt?
Yeah, first
novel, found his own voice, etc. It seems many times that a
writer's first
work is the test that they can actually fulfill it and handle
the form, and in
their later stuff they're free to unself-consciously fill
up the pages with
what they need to without worrying about novels poems and
form. Like
Ginsberg's early works, "Drakar Doldrums" and those other ones.
Completely
different form anything he ever did since. Or that WSB co-written
thing about the
Star-Spangled Banner. All these works smack of deep thinking
but they're all
almost comedically derivative & stereotypical of what they
probably thought
"should" be a poem, novel etc. Later the words -- or
thoughts -- just
guided themselves, I would say. They learned how to trust
their own minds.
> 2. What do you make of Burroughs' use of
contemporary music as the score
> for some of
his spoken word pieces? Does this move
him into the realm of
> postmodernism
or just show him keeping the beat alive?
I see it as an
extension of his cut-ups and tape exercises of the 60s.
Taking recordings
of the spoken word and adding other sounds noises messages
etc. to it, esp.
music of the 'young people' -- ie. contemporary music -- to
infiltrate the
youth consciousness with his word and further propogate his
life-works.
> 3. Did anyone see Ginsberg reading the lyrics to
"Miami" by U2 on the T.V.
> show about
the making of the album "Pop"?
What did you make of it? I found
> the
combination (U2 and Ginsberg) incredibly intriguing.
I would like to
see this. Anyone have a tape of it I could copy, or know the
details like what
show it was on?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:00:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Burroughs and beat history
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
>
> I would
suggest his greatest influences were not other writers, they
> were,
Wilheim Reich, ie orgone box etc., drugs, and life in a whole
> nother lane
we don't even want to know about.
i think it
undersells burroughs to just consider the drug and underworld
side. some have reported that he turned to that
stuff out of boredom.
he studied some
anthropology at Harvard before turning away from that
life. it seems interesting to me that the culture
of the time brought
together this
group of people from very different backgrounds but all
seemed to have
boredom or disenchantment of some sort to life at the
time.
i've heard he
liked to read about card tricks and detective stories.
Spengler's
Decline of the West (which i haven't read) seems to have been
influential. I'm interested in this sub-thread of the beat
history
thread and will
do a bit of digging but can certainly use others' help.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:05:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Burroughs and background music
James William
Marshall wrote:
>
> 2. What do you make of Burroughs' use of
contemporary music as the score for
some of his spoken word pieces?
i like it.
Does this move
him into the realm of postmodernism or just show him
keeping the beat
alive?
i've always
thought bill burroughs was postmodern when postmodernists
were in
diapers. hmm. the use of music seems really connected to
his
understanding of
the connections between different aesthetics.
but
frankly i don't
know if the background music was/is his idea or
something
suggested by others which he thought might be ...... (fun?)?
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:13:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Makar <dmakar@CCS.NEU.EDU>
Subject: music and OTR
last summer i
spent a week along the beach of cape cod 'resting' i spent
most of my time
re-reading on the road for a second time. for the longest
time i drifted
between reading and sleeping while lying out in the sun
behind the
cottage i was staying at. inside my stereo was playing 2 cds
over and over.
one was gershwin's greastest hits the other was steely dan
alive in america.
i could imagine sal and dean jumping from car to car
from place to
place choreographed to the gershwin tunes of the 40's era. i
found the steely
dan (named from a wsb line in nl) songs moved the
thinking and
feeling of the novel. gershwin's fast mighty loud and soft
tunes carried the
action and steely dan carried the american emotion. to
this day as i
hear and listen to parts of g or s.d. i can think of
passages from on
the road. there's no better way for me to re-live those
great memories.
anyone else have similiar or music and reading stories?
-Dave
David Makar
<dmakar@ccs.neu.edu>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:14:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Thomas Pynchon
Is Thomas Pynchon
beat? I love, but can't understand, his
work. I am
not sure if he is
beat or not.
What about TS
Elliot? J Alfred Prufrock seems beat,
but there is so
much packed in
between the lines and in his references and allusions
that I bet one
could never finish a completley annotated version of his
collected
works. On the other hand, we have Old Possum?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:18:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dave Redfern
<mushroom@INTERLOG.COM>
Subject: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
Good Day Beat-L
In November '96,
in Toronto, I had the pleasure of hosting a reading and
discussion group
by Allen Ginsberg. As a result, through
the kind
indulgence of
first Michael Cakebread & then Andrew Lampert, Beat-L was
brought to my
attention. Since that time, as time
permits, I have been
lurking the list,
mining much amusement & information.
On June 20, in
Toronto, I will be hosting a performance by Jim Carroll &
Richard Hell, two
performers who I believe, fall under the beat umbrella.
Anyone who is
interested in this event can find additional information on
our web page @
www.interlog.com/~mushroom. In addition,
if anyone has
questions they
would like directed at Jim or Dick, let me know and I will
see what I can
find out during their stay.
The organization
that I am a part of, mushroom enterprises, is a loose
collective that
seeks to bring alternative views and perspectives to Toronto
audiences. Past performers hosted include: John Giorno,
John Cale, Annie
Sprinkle, Townes
Van Zandt (definitely beat), Lydia Lunch, Candida Royale,
Bobby Seale,
Michael McClure, Guy Clarke, Fran Lebowitz, Crispin Glover and
AG. We are always seeking suggestions of suitable
artists to promote...
Any and all
suggestions from the admirable minds of Beat-L would be appreciated.
Cheers
Dave R
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:20:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Who was that guy?
Diane.
--
This sesame seed
is bigger than my head!
--the
guy from the McDonald's
commercial
--
Who was the guy
who did a comic strip/book, Never Eat Anything Bigger
Than Your Head?
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:21:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: San Francisco
I will be
traveling to San Francisco in early June.
I intend to go to
City Lights. Can anyone offer ideas on particularly
"beat" sites to
check out. Thanks.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:24:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970523130626.3e27166c@mail.interlog.com>
dave!
so wonderful to
hear that richard hell (who saved, in part, the 70s for me)
is on the road
with jim carroll, who i've followed from the start: do you
think that audios
will become available from tour?
brings to my mind
televsion, as well
crinlkly yet wet
stained wallpaper on boarding house stairs, the real bite.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:29:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: San Francisco
In-Reply-To: <3385FC42.2528A746@scsn.net>
On Fri, 23 May
1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> I will be
traveling to San Francisco in early June.
I intend to go to
> City
Lights. Can anyone offer ideas on
particularly "beat" sites to
> check out.
Besides the front
of the store where a legendary beat photo was taken with
lf, nc, rl and
others, I hear they got a whole isle in the back dedicated to
just beat
authors.
har har har
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:33:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Ethical lawyers are beat??????
Subject:
FYI: New Illinois Ethics Opinion
on E-mail
Resent-From:
tech@scbar.org
Date:
Fri, 23 May 1997 16:05:52 -0500
From:
cgm@npjp.com
Reply-To:
tech@scbar.org
To:
tech@scbar.org
CC:
sross@interlegal.com
I thought beat
was beaten and beatific, so I thought maybe I would
inquire to see if
anyone is interested in the most recent opinions by
the Illinois Bar
about "ethics" and lawyers.
From my experience as a
lawyer, Billy the
Kid had more than many lawyers I know!!!!
Not to
mention Billy the
Burroughs!!!!
Well, what about
Gravity's Rainbow and the erection signaling a V-2
rocket incoming.
I thought that was beat. What about
lawyer's with
ethics, umm, that
doesn't seem beat to me. I guess I will
not send the
body of the post.
And hey, sarcasm
rules on the web, check out the twinkle in my
typing!!!! ;-)
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:38:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
when i was young
old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read. he sat
on a lawn chair
with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
beers during the
reading. During questions one man who
had asked
stupick anal
questions like do you think you write real literature asked
if he thought any
one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
beer. B's response was to say, here have one, then
proceeded to throw
an open beer to
the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
I wish i could
figure out what theatre that was. there
were many great
readings there.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:51:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: lawyers in the mix
In-Reply-To: <3385E5FF.2FC14DAA@scsn.net>
At 02:46 PM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Im sorry, but
I don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer
>in
>the mix, and
other going ons are 'helping' anything.
>
>woah, as a
lawyer, I am like the government and I am here to help.
>
hahaha..
*laughing till i
peed my pants*
you should give
your day job.
yr pretty goddamn
funny.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General man-hating
bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:00:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
In-Reply-To: <3386005D.368C@sunflower.com>
At 03:38 PM
5/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>when i was
young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read. he sat
>on a lawn
chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
>beers during
the reading. During questions one man
who had asked
>stupick anal
questions like do you think you write real literature asked
>if he thought
any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
>beer. B's response was to say, here have one, then
proceeded to throw
>an open beer
to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
>all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
>I wish i
could figure out what theatre that was.
there were many great
>readings
there.
>patricia
>
>
patricia:
if you can
remember the name of the theater, of anything that might be of
interest to me
(which would be just about anything), please let me know.
ive gotten in
contact with a few of the beat-l'ers since im living in
frisco now. plus
buk is one of my favs and am greatly interested in
anything he does.
ttfn.
"The most
beautiful woman in town"
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:20:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: San Francisco
Walk up the
street (Broadway) north a couple of blocks from City Lights. On
the the right
there a small park and a cathedral across the street from it.
(I think the
cross street may be Stockton).
I think this is
mentioned in Big Sur, or if not in real life kerouac laid
there and drank
beer with Philip Whalen.
At 04:21 PM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I will be
traveling to San Francisco in early June.
I intend to go to
>City
Lights. Can anyone offer ideas on
particularly "beat" sites to
>check
out. Thanks.
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:36:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<970523124937_1557891213@emout05.mail.aol.com>
At 12:49 PM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>To the
"General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick...
For
clarification, this "long nick name" was given to me by a friend of
mine. its meant
to be sarcastic.
>
>Lisa, you may
think you know more than the rest of us, and God Bless you I'm
>sure you do
about some things, but that doesn't give you the right to tell
>everyone else
what to do.
I have nor will I
ever tell anyone "what to do". I am not the only person
who is sick of
the bullshit. What I have done is state
my opionion, which
is my right to
do. And if you don't like what *I* have to say then you can
delete my posts
as well. I gave you and the handfull of those involved
another option:
Start your own list. And those who want to hear the gossip
treadmill can
happily subscribe to that list as well. I joined this list to
learn more about
something that intrested me, not to hear bullshit and
gossip between
those that are in the know. Excuse me
for being born when
majority of these
people were out fucking/drinking/smoking and writing.
Many of the names
mentioned are irrelevent to me because they are side
characters in
this huge drama. You seem to forget that
not everyone here
is as clued in to
the 'scene' as you are.
>
>Lisa, if
you're getting 500 e-mails a day why don't you figure out a way to
>manage that.
I'm no tech heavy but I figured out very early on that AOL
>allows me to
have more than one screen name and this one you see here is
>dedicated to
the Beat-l only. If a techno-phobe like
me can manage that
>trick it
oughta be a slam dunk for somene who prides herself on her technical
>prowess.
Excuse me?
Perhaps if you simmered down on your anger, you would re-read
what I wrote in
the first place. This account "used" to genereate 500 mails
a day, till I
moved some stuff over to another address. I have 15 email
accounts, with
three being active and of two being primary. The world does
not exist around
AOL or any of its subsidaries. The only reason I kept this
list on this
account is because of the volume of mail it generates, and
lately half of it
being bullshit.
>
>Congratulations,
Lisa, you're the first person to ever tell me to "Fuck-Off"
>on this or
any other list. Put's you in very good
company with the
>ever-mature
Mr. Chaput who's very first post to Nicosia included the essence
>of maturity
"Fuck You Gerry".
I pride myself on
being non conformist.
>
>Lisa, you
amaze me in other ways too.
I amaze a lot of
people it seems.
>You say
you're on "auto-delete" for
>all estate
related posts and then proceed to tell us everything that is being
>said. You are one
>amazing
person.
Again, you are
misquoting me. I never said I had the list on 'auto delete'.
This mail comes
through Eudora, a gui mail client. After reading the first
couple of
thousand messages over the last few months that I said to hell
with it. Kept
watch on the thread and delted anything having to do with the
estate sage. Then it died down for awhile, then I moved my
mail, and
started reading
again. Thats when I picked up on the tread and saw all the
complaints. Now,
if I hadn't been delting the messages like i have been for
the past month or
longer, would I have NOT voiced myself sooner? Yes
genuis! I would
have. It wasn't till i saw all the complaints about it,
kept reading more
of the thread that I deceided to speak up.
>
>With all due
respect to you and evryone else calling for the silencing of
>this thread -
hit your delete keys. Unsubscribe. Do whatever floats your
>boat, but
don't you dare tell me this topic is not relevant.
jerry, jerry,
jerry, jerry, jerry <patronizing>. You don't own this list.
The topic of
Jack's archieves is yes important, but not the bullshit and
the lying, the
namecalling and the backstabbing, and everything else
inbetween. Plus
jack is NOT the only beat that lived!!!!
and i will no
unsubscribe nor
will i keep my mouth shut. I have just as much say here as
YOU do about what
is relevent and what is not relevent on the list. And
maybe if you
stepped back and looked at WHY people are asking for the
silencing of the
thread, you would see why so many people are so upset.
And another
reason why this gets me, is because i live with this shit day
in and day out.
my bf is a media personality. i have to deal with the
rumors, the
namecalling, the slander, the 'is <insert bf's name> home?"
with me going
"sorry you have the wrong number". Its an invasion of
privacy. We don't
want our personal life dragged into the public spotlight,
and what YOU and
many other people seem to forget that is that is what your
mainly doing when
you bring up all the old gossip threadmills and the
fighting over who
has a bigger dick. Its lost all its meaning for being
about jack's
archieves, and you know it.
>The tone is
>harsh,
yes. And no one recognizes that more than
me. And you aren't helping
>to calm it by
telling me or anyone else to "Fuck-Off". But the topic is
>relevant as
hell.
Its only relevant
because your involved. If you weren't I highly doubt that
you would be
saying any of this nor making a big fuss over any of it.
Personally, I
could care less. I stated my opinion, and people replied. I
am not on any
sides here, nor do I want to be.
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>*************************************************************************
>A general person-liking
"I don't claim to be better than anyone else" guy.
>
>
Yes, your so
original, that you had to steal my sig? *laugh* Whatever
floats your boat!
ps: don't piss on
the electric fence!
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:46:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Durand <LCKerouac@AOL.COM>
Subject: FYI: Lowell CELEBRATES Kerouac!
For those
interested in Celebrating Jack Kerouac and his art in the
company of
friends and fellow enthusiasts, the 10th Annual Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival will be 2-5 October 1997, in Lowell, MA. The
3rd Annual Beat
Literature Conference sponsored by UMASS-Lowell will take
place 3 October
at the University.
This year's theme
will be "Kerouac Celebrates Lowell" and will include a
tribute to Allen Ginsberg.
More soon. We're
putting the schedule together now. I've spoken with the
Sheraton Hotel
and they will make rooms available at a special rate to
festival goers as
they did last year.
If you want to be
on a direct email list, send me your address. If you
want our hard
copy mailing, send me your postal address. We are also
working on a web
site for this year's event.
Mark Hemenway
President, Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:35:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
At 04:18 PM
5/23/97 -0400, David Redfern wrote:
>On June 20,
in Toronto, I will be hosting a performance by
>Jim Carroll
& Richard Hell
Hmm, why do
things always fall on the day of a final exam?!?!?!
Why do
Intersession finals always seem to fall on my birthday?!?
My final exams in
Aug. better not mess with Dylan dates or
else!!! {;^>
Keep up the great
work David!! Keep bringing em to
Toronto!!
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:35:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Dear R. Bentz
Kirby:
Welcome to the
list -- I'm fairly new to it myself --- but the animosities
and accusations
that flowed much more freely about three weeks ago revealed a
lot. Glad to see a "legal" viewpoint --
that might change the tone of many
exchanges.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:39:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
Well, Lisa, like
I said, you are one amazing person.
And regarding
your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you quite
well.
Hey, Lisa, I'd
love to match wits with you further, but my parents drilled it
into me as a
young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.
ta ta,
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:39:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re:
Early Morning Thoughts
How on earth did Mr. Chaput know of that
phone call?
>>I can't
imagine his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations
>>in
Lowell, Massachusetts?
>
>(note****a
tape of this radio conversation has widely circulated from a
>source
unnamed in California...)
>
(Paul
A. Maher)
Dear Paul: May 23, 1997
Your apologetics for Mr. Chaput and Mr.
Sampas give me a hearty laugh.
I suppose Jan Kerouac's income tax
returns were also "widely
circulated from a
source unnamed in California."
Widely circulated? How many people on the Beat-List have
received a
copy of the KQED
radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks
about Jan Kerouac
selling a warrant that belonged to her mother?
Don't all
raise your hands
at once. (Chaput, please put your hand
down--we know you
have one.)
Off to shoot some hoops,
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:41:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
At 06:35 PM
5/23/97 -0400, Dawn B. Sova wrote:
>Glad to see a
"legal" viewpoint -- that might change
>the tone of
many exchanges.
Sez the spider to
da fly...
ekiM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:44:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
At 03:38 PM
5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:
>when i was
young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read.
Sounds like the
"Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's
a bed'n'breakfast
next door?) on Haight St.
Could be my
faulty circuiting?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:01:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
Dear David:
PRICELESS
response re: the potential website!!!
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:40:20 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Beats out of court
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:18 -0700
from
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Just to start the
ball rolling, I think there were several things that
contributed to
Kerouac's change of style. Holmes once
mentioned that he
thought the war
seemed to speed life up for his generation.
Maybe this
was reflected in
the newmusic and maybe the beat of the music caused
them to feel time
in a different way. Drugs may also have played a role
in terms of
Kerouac's changing style. And there was
Neal Cassady--the
fastest man
alive--and his famous Joan Anderson letter.
I'm tired and
thinking to
clearly now but I'll be glad to jump on this thread again if
people want to
continue it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:28:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.
M. Cakebread
wrote:
>
> At 03:38 PM
5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:
> >when i
was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
> >read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read.
>
> Sounds like
the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's
> a
bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.
>
> Could be my
faulty circuiting?
> Mike
yes yes, neat,
thanks
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:13:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<970523183906_1124034530@emout07.mail.aol.com>
At 06:39 PM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, Lisa,
like I said, you are one amazing person.
>
>And regarding
your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you quite
>well.
>
>
>Hey, Lisa,
I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents drilled it
>into me as a
young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.
>
>ta ta,
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>
>
Well as my mother
told me, if you can't say something nice, then come over
and sit by me!
Its not about
"matching" wits, but heck, if your going to argue with "me"
you might as well
A: read what I
post instead of paraphrasing it.
b:if your going
to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of
inserting what
you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and engergy.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey
Internet and
Computer Consultant
San Francisco,
California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General man-hating
bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:19:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Gerry and friends
In a message
dated 97-05-22 22:06:02 EDT, Tim Gallagher wrote:
<< I'd much
rather hear these guys slug it out verbally than your impolite
rantings.
James, do us a favor and simply don't read
their fighting. I like to read
it.
>>
Tim:
Name calling just
seems to be part and parcel of it. It
has been very
interesting to
learn about the estate issues. Gerry is
too important a
scholar to be
pushed off the list by people who respond to his every posting
with
insults. Several times intelligent,
interesting and important posts of
his have had
insulting responses. I suspect both
sides need a reminder to
lower the decibel
level. Otherwise their mothers should
send them to bed!
Pam Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:18:27 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: to levi and all
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 11:45:01 -0400
from
<country@SOVER.NET>
Isn't it good to
have Marie C. back with us! Love that
Pound!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:17:25 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
In-Reply-To: <3386005D.368C@sunflower.com>
On Fri, 23 May
1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:
> when i was
young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
> read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read. he sat
> on a lawn
chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
> beers during
the reading. During questions one man
who had asked
> stupick anal
questions like do you think you write real literature asked
> if he
thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
> beer. B's response was to say, here have one, then
proceeded to throw
> an open beer
to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
> all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
> I wish i
could figure out what theatre that was.
there were many great
> readings
there.
> patricia
>
Well, that's
bukowski, not that I ever saw the guy or anything. His poems
were definitely
semi-beat, altho' he probably wouldn't have admitted it.
Like beat with
his feet on the ground... or actually more like beating his
head into the
ground.
Olly R.
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Survival of
the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever
considered the
idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."
Could the Doctor
have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"
_______________________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
_______________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:10:34 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Beat History
In-Reply-To: <3385E8A6.CB77F85@scsn.net>
On Fri, 23 May
1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> Would Tom
Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of
> Fear and
Loathing qualify as "beat."
perhaps not
"beat", but certainly "good"... Kool Aid Acid Test is quite
amazing.
Olly.
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Survival of
the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever
considered the
idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."
Could the Doctor
have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"
_______________________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
_______________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:14:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
--- On Fri, 23
May 1997 18:41:13 -0400 "M.
Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
wrote:
At 06:35 PM
5/23/97 -0400, Dawn B. Sova wrote:
>Glad to see a
"legal" viewpoint -- that might change
>the tone of
many exchanges.
Sez the spider to
da fly...
ekiM
---------------End
of Original Message-----------------
Look, I am a
Lawyer and I only know one that I would trust!!!
Me.
Peace,
--------------------------------------------------------
Name: R. Bentz
Kirby
E-mail: R. Bentz
Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: 05/23/97
Time: 20:11:51
This message was
sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage -
delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:23:00 -0700
Reply-To: rholton@okanagan.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rob Holton
<rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
Subject: Re: Thomas Pynchon
In his
introduction to Slow Learner, his collection of early short
stories,
Pynchon details
the important Beat influence on his work and calls
himself
post-Beat. There are quite few connections.
Rob Holton
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> Is Thomas
Pynchon beat? I love, but can't
understand, his work. I am
> not sure if
he is beat or not.
> Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:36:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats out of court
Bill Gargan
wrote:
>
> Just to
start the ball rolling, I think there were several things that
> contributed
to Kerouac's change of style. Holmes
once mentioned that he
> thought the
war seemed to speed life up for his generation.
Maybe this
> was
reflected in the newmusic and maybe the beat of the music caused
> them to feel
time in a different way. Drugs may also have played a role
> in terms of
Kerouac's changing style. And there was
Neal Cassady--the
> fastest man
alive--and his famous Joan Anderson letter.
Bill,
Please, i am
unfamiliar with the famous Joan Anderson letter. I am sorry
if this makes it
seem like beat 101 but, a short history would be
appreciated. I am just beginning to visualize the casts of
characters.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:45:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: booze
and the guys
my list
Ken kesey,
drinking vodka and grapefruit juice with ice (in a large
thermos) one
afternoon in the KU union, pre press conference
wsb vodka (vod)
and coke with ice after 4:
jk quart of jack daniels a day? did he ever do
boilermakers?
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:29:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update
In-Reply-To: <338515C8.752@sunflower.com>
>> If you only want the poster or program by
itself, the
>> price is
$15.00 for the one item.
>> Jeffrey
Weinberg
>> Water
Row Books
>> PO Box
438
>> Sudbury
MA 01776
>> Tel
508-485-8515
>> Fax
508-229-0885
>> EMail
Waterrow@aol.com
JW,
Just saw the
above. Hope I'm not too late.
I'd very much
like a poster. It's Friday night, 8:30, don't want to bother
you at this time.
I'll call in the A.M.
Looking forward
to seeing the Beat-L t-shirt design.
Appreciate you
working this out for everyone.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:37:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: San Fran Correction
There's another
thread about an old hippy remembering San Francisco. Maybe
this one should
be an old punk rocker remembering San Francisco.
I told the fellow
who will be in SF to go up broadway to the park.
Broadway is east
west. Go North up Columbus.
It is thre blocks
up or so.
City Lights is at
Columbus and Broadway.
It's a short walk
to the park where jack hung out.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:41:20 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters Interview
Jerry Cimino
wrote: . . .
> Well, folks,
I've done my due diligence. Ann Charters
may not be talking on
> this list
and she may not be the president of the Gerry Nicosia fan club, but
> she doesn't
contradict his arguments either, at least not in this interview.
> In fact, she supports them.
Jerry--
Which shows that
she has class. Nicosia simply refers to
her as a
Sampas stooge
(and probably on his payroll), despite the fact that her
work on Kerouac
is certainly at a minimum as substantial as his, and I
would argue
considerably more .
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:51:26 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: San Francisco
Michael Stutz
wrote:
>
> On Fri, 23
May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> > I will
be traveling to San Francisco in early June.
I intend to go to
> > City
Lights. Can anyone offer ideas on
particularly "beat" sites to
> > check
out.
>
> Besides the
front of the store where a legendary beat photo was taken with
> lf, nc, rl
and others, I hear they got a whole isle in the back dedicated to
> just beat
authors.
>
> har har har
Or go to the
Mission district, where it would be happening if Beat was
now.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:53:23 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re:
old hippy trying to remember san fransisco.
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> when i was
young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
> read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read. he sat
> on a lawn
chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
> beers during
the reading. During questions one man
who had asked
> stupick anal
questions like do you think you write real literature asked
> if he
thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
> beer. B's response was to say, here have one, then
proceeded to throw
> an open beer
to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
> all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
> I wish i
could figure out what theatre that was.
there were many great
> readings
there.
> patricia
Patricia,
I have no idea
what the theatre would have been, could have been a
number of
venue's--what part of town? But good old
Buk was an LA
boy--not an SF local.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:57:14 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Early Morning Thoughts
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
How many people on the Beat-List have
received a
> copy of the
KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks
> about Jan
Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother? Don't all
> raise your
hands at once. (Chaput, please put your
hand down--we know you
> have one.)
> Off to shoot some hoops,
> Gerry Nicosia
Gerry,
I never got a
tape of the show, I heard it while driving to work. As
you know living
here the Krazny (sp?)program has a pretty wide
listenership.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:39:07 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Thoughts for Jack
I bow to Pam
Plymell, let the fight go on as far as I'm concerned.
Let's just not
forget who the subject is. We're talking
about Jack
Kerouac here, and
it's hard for me to imagine that as he sat in the Six
Gallery expertly
flicking the tops of cheap wine bottles and getting the
crowd fired up
while Allen Ginsberg got ready to make them all famous
that he saw ahead
to this sorry mess.
I SOMETIMES TALK
TO
KEROUAC WHEN I
DRIVE
Jack?
Yesterday I
thought of something
I never had a
chance to tell you
and now I don't
know what it was
Remember?
Lew Welch
SMALL SENTENCE TO
DRIVE YOURSELF SANE
The next time you are doing something
abolutely
ordinary, or even
better
the next time you are doing something
absolutely
necessary, such
as pissing, or making love, or shaving or
washing the
dishes or the baby or yourself or the room,
say to yourself
"So it's all come to this!"
Lew Welch
Sitting here
drinking and smoking and thinking about all this shit, but
what I really am
doing is listening to John Lee Hooker and Van Morrison
doing their
thing--
"Dr put you
on milk, cream and alcohol"
"You need to
go see a Dr. instead of your favorite nurse"
"Backbiters
and syndicators hang around outside your door"
AS for me, I know
I'm not going to the Dr--but might start calling my
favorite
nurses. Have a good Memorial Day
everyone. People die in
wars.
James Stauffer
Lew Welch said,
in a much less PC world
COMPORTMENT
Think Jew
dance nigger
dress and drive
Oakie
I say
Think Czech
dance Brazilian
dress and drive
Italian
smoke Humboldt
County
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Early Morning Thoughts
At 03:39 PM
5/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
> How on earth did Mr. Chaput know of that
phone call?
>>>I can't
imagine his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations
>>>in
Lowell, Massachusetts?
>>
>>(note****a
tape of this radio conversation has widely circulated from a
>>source
unnamed in California...)
>>
> (Paul A. Maher)
>
>Dear
Paul: May 23, 1997
>
> Your apologetics for Mr. Chaput and Mr.
Sampas give me a hearty laugh.
****I am not
"apologetic" for anyone, when there is a statement that can be
amended by
something I know of differently, I will state it "heartily..." I
would do the same
for you.
> I suppose Jan Kerouac's income tax
returns were also "widely
>circulated
from a source unnamed in California."
> ***I do not
know about that...
Widely
circulated?
well....I got a
tape from a tape from a tape froma tape etc.etc
etcetcetcetcetcetc
How many people on the Beat-List have received
a
>copy of the
KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks
>about Jan
Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother? Don't all
>raise your
hands at once. (Chaput, please put your
hand down--we know you
>have one.)
> Off to shoot some hoops,
> Gerry Nicosia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:19:24 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
Patricia Elliott
wrote:
>
> M. Cakebread
wrote:
> >
> > At
03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:
> >
>when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
> >
>read, bokowski, he sat on a stage in
an movie theatre and read.
> >
> > Sounds
like the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's
> > a
bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.
> >
> > Could
be my faulty circuiting?
> > Mike
> yes yes,
neat, thanks
> p
Still mostly a
movie theatre and still going strong.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:23:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Dear ekiM:
>From MY point
of view, it might be more "sez the fly to the spider"!
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:09:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
tiffs make me
happy
they are fuuunny
continue
----------
: From: Lisa M.
Rabey <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
: To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject: Re: a
calm request
: Date: Friday,
May 23, 1997 6:13 PM
:
: At 06:39 PM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
: >Well, Lisa,
like I said, you are one amazing person.
: >
: >And
regarding your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you
quite
: >well.
: >
: >
: >Hey, Lisa,
I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents
drilled it
: >into me as
a young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.
: >
: >ta ta,
: >
: >
: >Jerry
Cimino
: >
: >
:
: Well as my
mother told me, if you can't say something nice, then come
over
: and sit by me!
: Its not about
"matching" wits, but heck, if your going to argue with "me"
: you might as
well
: A: read what I
post instead of paraphrasing it.
: b:if your going
to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of
: inserting what
you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and engergy.
:
:
: ttfn.
:
: lisa
:
: --
:
: Lisa M. Rabey
: Internet and
Computer Consultant
: San Francisco,
California
:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
:
**************************************
: General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:40:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Thomas Pynchon
Comments: To: Rob
Holton <rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
--- On Fri, 23
May 1997 17:23:00 -0700 Rob Holton
<rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
wrote:
> In his
introduction to Slow Learner, his collection of early
short
> stories,
> Pynchon
details the important Beat influence on his work and
calls
> himself
>
post-Beat. There are quite few
connections.
>
> Rob Holton
>
>
> R. Bentz
Kirby wrote:
> >
> > Is
Thomas Pynchon beat? I love, but can't
understand, his
work. I am
> > not
sure if he is beat or not.
>
> > Bentz
> >
bocelts@scsn.net
> > http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
---------------End
of Original Message-----------------
Well, I know he
plays on urban myths with the alligator in the
sewer thing. And I always thought that several of his
ideas
seemed very
beatific. But, as a lawyer, I am sure
that I don't
know shit from
shinola.
;-)
--------------------------------------------------------
Name: R. Bentz
Kirby
E-mail: R. Bentz
Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Date: 05/24/97
Time: 00:27:51
This message was
sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage -
delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:43:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
At 12:23 AM 5/24/97
-0400, nwaD wrote:
>Dear ekiM:
>
>
>>From MY
point of view, it might be more "sez the fly to the spider"!
!!nwaD no thgiR
ekiM
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:54:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
At 03:44 AM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Derek, Marie,
Lisa, et al...
>
>I agree a lot
of this is distasteful. I agree too much
of it is juvenile.
>But it is
serving a very large purpose.
>
>Look at who
does *nothing* but shout and moan. The
very same people who
>refuse to
answer honest questions. These people
have raised the level of
>rhetoric time
and time again because they have no legitimate argument to
>make. Now Chaput is calling for a truce. Why?
Because he knows he's
>beaten. Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was
really serious about his
>"Gerry
is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him
>to come back
with "it was a joke".
This above is a
good example of what Lisa was talking about how you
misquote. As in
her post below.
A: read what I
post instead of paraphrasing it.
b:if your going
to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of
inserting what
you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and energy.
I may not be a
scholar but usually when you put quotation marks around what
you are calling
someone's post, it means they actually said that.
You see Jerry the
reason why is if someone reads your post they may not have
had the
opportunity to see the ORIGINAL POST and they would actually think I
said
this-----"Gerry is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters"-----
when
in fact I never
did say that now did I Jerry? In fact I never said the word
"thief"
nor did I say ONLY it was illegal to xerox what I said was it was
illegal to
"xerox and sell" an authors letters, that when he told people it
was for his
personal use and then turned around and sold the letters that
THAT was illegal.
It was just a point I made. My opinion and I'm not a lawer
nor do I want one
(Thanks anyway and Welcome.-R. Bentz Kirby-beat attorney)
Does anyone on
the list think they can copy an authors words whether it is
in the form of a
letter or manuscript or book or whatever and then sell it
for cash. It
really doesn't matter if it was to a University or to someone
on the street. If
you could do that it wouldn't be very good to be a writer
now would it.
Gerry should be proud of his archive. I mentioned long ago I
thought his book
was and I quote "Great!" What he did putting together that
ENTIRE archive is
historic, grand , an amazing accomplishment and I'm not
trying to be
funny I'm being very serious. An invaluable tool for scholars.
At todays prices
it probably would be worth as much as Ann Charters ( I
heard quarter
million) archive. I repeat the archive is not "closed" it is
just that
SCHOLARS who want to do research will need permission from the
person who was
interviewed to read those interviews, or letters and if that
person is
deceased then their heirs must give permission and yes that would
include Kerouac's
heirs. Unless something has changed since I was last at
the archive and
talked to Martha Mayo personally about it a few months back.
By the way my
father's letters from Jack ( YES XEROX COPIES I have the
originals) and
interviews are in that archive and I have given MY permission
slip to the
University. I am trying to be silent
about this whole estate
thing out of
respect for the many people on this list including Bill Gargan
the list
administrator who requested WE stop this type of thing. I am
willing to. I
have been on this list and have enjoyed talking about Kerouac
AND THE BEATS,
and I would like to keep it that way. I just couldn't let a
terrible misquote
like that go by. Jerry to say I'm "beaten" after I agree
not to back stab
is pretty low. Also tell Gerry YES I DO GET SOME
INFORMATION from
John Sampas I'm not denying that I get SOME info from him.
I sure have
gotten a lot from Gerry too! I'm done talking to you and Gerry
and Jo unless you
want to talk about Kerouac and the beats. Out of respect
for people on the
list not because I'm "beaten". Phil Chaput-Lowell, Mass.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:00:31 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Thomas Pynchon
R. Bentz Kirby
wrote:
>
> --- On Fri,
23 May 1997 17:23:00 -0700 Rob Holton
>
<rholton@OKANAGAN.NET> wrote:
> > In his
introduction to Slow Learner, his collection of early
> short
> >
stories,
> > Pynchon
details the important Beat influence on his work and
> calls
> > himself
> >
post-Beat. There are quite few
connections.
Oh no, not the
"is he beat" theme. IMHO, not beat, but definitely cool.
Wouldn't trade
reading Gravity's Rainbow, V , and Lot 49 for much.
J. Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:35:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Clarify this situation
At 03:40 PM
5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> Many
weeks ago, when Gerry Nicosia first showed up on this list,
>> I wrote
a friendly message saying "Glad to have Gerry N. here,
>> but I
hope we'll talk about things other than estates and wills,
>> and that
we'll resist all getting dragged down into the legal
>> mire
together and ruining the friendly atmosphere of the list".
>> (Levi Asher)
Levi, May 23, 1997
Just to set the record straight, Levi,
I came on here saying I
wanted a serious
discussion about the future of Jack Kerouac's archive, and
the next thing I
know you're helping to mire up the situation yourself by
telling everyone
on the Beat-List that I pulled PARROT FEVER from your
LITERARY KICKS
web page with no just explanation, just arbitrarily, and
somebody--you or
somebody else, I can't remember--used the expression that I
was "as bad
as Sampas." So I had to spend two
or three posts just getting
that straightened
out, and of course it turned out (after searching my
files) that I had
sent you a 400-word letter in July, explaining in detail
that I could no
longer let you have PARROT FEVER for free because Jan
Kerouac's
heirs--whom I legally serve--demanded that PARROT FEVER provide
some income for
them.
I have a hard time believing you
couldn't remember receiving that
detailed
explanation. At the time you piped up
with your false charge,
several other
people were throwing similar false charges against me, and
your contribution
helped get the bonfire going. So let's
spread the blame
around a bit
more, even if that means looking in the mirror.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:06:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters Int./ Words Put in My Mouth
>Jerry--
>
>Which shows
that she has class. Nicosia simply
refers to her as a
>Sampas stooge
(and probably on his payroll), despite the fact that her
>work on
Kerouac is certainly at a minimum as substantial as his, and I
>would argue
considerably more .
>
>J Stauffer
>
>
Dear James, May 23, 1997
One of the reasons I've been known to
lose my temper here is because
people like you
keep putting words in my mouth that I never said. Mr.
Chaput claims I
said Stella Sampas forged Gabrielle Kerouac's will. But he
can't produce the
quote with any real citation. Now you
say I called Ann
Charters "a
Sampas stooge." Can you please
produce this quotation, cite
source, date,
etc.?
The fact is, I never called Ann
that. Ann and I were colleagues who
had a good
working relationship (she called me for help several times, which
I gave) until
late in 1993. At that time, she told me
she was going to
censor the
SELECTED LETTERS of Kerouac because that was the only way she
could keep her
job working for John Sampas--i.e., she could only put in the
letters he
approved. I wrote Ann a long letter,
admonishing her that I did
not think she was
taking the right path, that I thought in the interest of
Kerouac
scholarship she should refuse to let Sampas dictate what letters
went into the
collection. And if Sampas fired her and
hired someone else to
do his bidding,
so be it. She would have stood up for an
uncensored edition
of Kerouac's
letters.
After that point, Ann ceased
communicating with me almost entirely,
and became openly
hostile to me on various occasions. I
guess she figured I
was
"messin'" with her career. I
still respect the Kerouac work she has
done, and the
hours she has put in, but I feel she had made some very bad
choices; and the
harsh things she said about Jan Kerouac*, many times in
public, were
unjustified and not very considerate in view of the fact that
Jan's father has
earned her considerable money and reputation over the years.
(At Black Oak Books in Berkeley, for
example, she said Jan Kerouac
was "low
class" and "rude like her father."--source, San Francisco
archivist
Steven Kushner,
who taped her that evening.)
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 03:00:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Phil, you're
right, I stand corrected. You did not
say "Gerry is a thief
because he
xeroxed Jack's letters". That is
what you were insinuating, of
course, but those
were not your words.
I remind myself
of the father in Flashdance right before he shakes Patrick
Swayze's hand...
"When I'm wrong I say I'm wrong".
And in this little game
of
"gotcha" I was wrong to put those words in quotes. I should have said I
was paraphrasing
instead.
If you want to
start a serious discussion about Jack, Phil, then answer me
this. Did you know Jack when your were a kid? Tell us about it. I'm sure
others will be
interested and it will allow you and me to talk about
something where
we aren't on opposite sides of the fence.
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 03:04:11 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Burrough T-Shirts
In the latest
issue of GQ it says Burroughs has been tapped to shoot
holes in Tshirts
with his picture on them to be sold for $99.
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man answers and
says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs up, wife
says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some damn fool
who
wanted to know if
the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 03:39:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burrough T-Shirts
Dean, we have
those shirts, shot full of holes and signed by WSB himself in
stock for
$50. Check our website www.kerouac.com
or call us at
1-800-KER-OUAC
for details.
Jerry Cimino
Fog City Facts
& Fiction
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 04:16:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: The Music. . .
On Fri, 23 May
1997 13:25:07 -0400 Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
writes:
>Beat friends,
>So, I
>figured it
might be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and
>screaming,
>into the
discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side
>thread for
>those who are
bored with WWIII.
Hey Bruce,
Were you the one
who was looking for a jazz time line about six months
ago? Let me know
if you're interested. I've worked up a brief one with
writers and jazz
artists and I'd be happy to share.
Regards,
jd
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 04:34:17 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Music. . .
Jim, I'd
liketoget
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 04:37:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Music. . .
Yeow! I know I've had a hair trigger lately, but it
usually ain't that bad!
What I meant to
say was, Jim could you send me a copy of that Jazz timeline?
Thanks!
Jerry C
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 04:37:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Music...
In a message
dated 97-05-23 15:25:24 EDT, you write:
<< Jack wrote some jazz criticism as well, was
really into it all, in fact
the main reason I
love his writing more than the others so much is the way he
captures the swing
of bop>>
Also, something that people don't like to talk
about because it conflicts
with their
'image' of Kerouac, is that he listened to classical to Frank
Sinatra.
Kerouac is not
all that he is jazzed up to be,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 04:29:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Phil Chaput
wrote:
>
> Does anyone
on the list think they can copy an authors words whether it is
> in the form
of a letter or manuscript or book or whatever and then sell it
i would guess
that certain word montage approaches would be considered
acceptable. it's been 7 years or more since i read Nimmer
on contracts
so i can't recall
the details. my guess is that it depends
on the
percentage of the
original quoted material use OR (i don't recall the
standard) but
somethign about significant difference or somesuch.
word montages and
cutups are probably safe game. but that's just a
hunch.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 06:46:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Music...
In-Reply-To:
<199705231910.AA012944636@lulu.acns.nwu.edu>
just listening to
jack read his own work in his own voice has changed ny
reading of his
works forever. he reads his own work like bebop rhythms, and
one of my
favorite pieces is his reading of RR in
October Earth on the CD
boxed set with
steve allen improvising in background to keep the rhythms on
piano. i often
put on kerouac tapes, CDs, etc and then scan the lines, as i
listen to the
flow and beat of his voice. many great experiments, one of my
favorite was
listening to him read this charley parker pomes. my stanzas
etc do not
conform to the printed text, but to the rhythms and meter of
jack's own voice
as i hear them.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 08:17:55 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: the truth is often relative to the mother
of invention.
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.3.94.970523155015.5179O-100000@seka.nacs.net>
i keep thinking
that it's yesterdays tomorrow
(i suspect that
the clocks
are running backward
eternally
dragging me
foward and toward
yesterday's
tomorrow)
be here now!
the chorus
of my dead fathers chant in my ears.
(i have a list of
questions streching out
to infinity plus one!
(excitedly i begin to ask for
proof of the holy
goof
of life and love,
heaven and hell,
and the kerouac
estate)
then,
*poof!*
they abandon me....
leaving behind a calendar!
i fall into
the abyss
between what
happened
and what might
have been,
i dive deeply into
the holy cracks
of sidewalks in
eternal past,
where
time is
time is
time is
eternally poised
on the
threshold
of a
day already
lived.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 07:29:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: the truth is often relative to the
mother of invention.
Marie Countryman
wrote:
>
> i keep
thinking that it's yesterdays tomorrow
>
> (i suspect
that the clocks
> are running backward
> eternally
dragging me
> foward and
toward
> yesterday's
tomorrow)
>
> be here now!
> the chorus
> of my dead fathers chant in my ears.
>
> (i have a
list of questions streching out
> to infinity plus one!
> (excitedly i begin to ask for
> proof of the
holy goof
> of life and love,
> heaven and hell,
> and the
kerouac estate)
> then,
> *poof!*
> they abandon me....
>
> leaving behind
a calendar!
>
> i fall into
> the abyss
> between what
happened
> and what might
have been,
> i dive deeply into
> the holy cracks
> of sidewalks
in eternal past,
> where
> time is
> time is
> time is
>
> eternally poised
> on the
threshold
> of a
day already
>
lived.
>
> mc
beautiful. ... i
would have said time is "poisoned" rather than "poised"
but i guess
that's why your morning messages always uplift my mood and
set the day off
on the right foot.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 08:33:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Influences on the Beats
Dear Jim:
You might want to
check with the Rare Book and Manuscript Dept. at Columbia
University, they
have all the correspondence between Ginsberg and Trilling
and it is quite
an insight into their relationship.
Maybe they have
Kerouac's as well
but I haven't looked into that. Mark Van
Doren was also an
important
instructor in both their lives (maybe even more so than Trilling)
and you should
check into that angle as well. Van Doren
read the Doctor Sax
manuscript and
was very critical of it, as I recall.
Good luck.
Bill Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:18:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Shelley Waite
<Stimpette@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The editing of Kerouac's Selected
Letters
Please send me a
copy of the Anstee essay
Shelley Waite
1720 N. Orchard
unit D
Chicago, IL 60614
Thanks!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:39:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Music...(NBC- jazz)
Good morning all,
For all you jazz
fans out there, I suggest you run out
and buy the
re-release of Miles Davis' _Kinda Blue_
on Columbia. They've added an extra track - an alternate
take of
"Flamenco Sketches."
Beautiful!!
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:52:43 -0400
Reply-To: bocelts@scsn.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: What lettes sold by whom to whom under
what circumstances?
Race wrote:
>Phil Chaput
wrote:
>>
>> Does
anyone on the list think they can copy an authors words whether it is
>> in the
form of a letter or manuscript or book or whatever and then sell it
Phil:
Who sold what
letters to whom for how much under what circumstances and
what are you
talking about? While there are matters
of concern to me about
the availability
of Kerouac archives and the condition under which they are
being maintained,
I am investigating this to come to my own conclusions.
But, questions
such as this are filled with inuendo and imply that somebody has
done something
wrong or illegal. If you are going to
put this out in the wild,
please be
specific so that we can, if we care to, investigate and answer your
question.
Are letters in
anyway copyrighted material? Once you
write a letter it is no
longer
"your" property if you mail it.
It is the property of the person who
received
it. So, does copyright etc attach to it?
I don't know the
answer. But, I would like to know the
question first!
Peace,
Bentz
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:17:20 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mick Parsons
<mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>
Subject: Re: The Music. . .
In-Reply-To:
<19970524.031612.2814.2.juancito@juno.com>
hey jim,
i'd be interested
in that list as well.......
mick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know the
passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred
of the
masses; but no respect for humanity, no
false modesty, no
conspiracy, no
universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the
unspeakable
jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."
Mick Parsons
-Baudelaire
mparsons@netcrafters.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:19:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mick Parsons <mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>
Subject: Re: Music...
In-Reply-To:
<970524043729_1391965443@emout09.mail.aol.com>
oh, I don't
know...
I rather enjoy
classical now and again, when the mood strikes;
besides,
rarely is anyone
all that their image creates them to be...
mick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I know the
passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred
of the
masses; but no respect for humanity, no
false modesty, no
conspiracy, no
universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the
unspeakable
jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."
Mick Parsons
-Baudelaire
mparsons@netcrafters.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 08:30:06 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Pranksters' Home Base On the Block /
Kesey selling legendary '60s
cabin in La Honda
This is a
multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------2A50F546420
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article.cgi?file=MN5082.DTL&directory=/c
hronicle/archive/1997/05/24
In the spirit of
keeping everyone up to date on the financial affairs of
Beat and Post
Beat figures, an update on Kesey's real estate empire.
J Stauffer
--------------2A50F546420
Content-Type:
text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="24"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline; filename="24"
Content-Base:
"http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicl
e/article.cgi?file=MN5082.DTL&direc
tory=/chronicle/archive/1997/05/24"
<BASE
HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article.cgi?file=MN5082.DTL&direc
tory=/chronicle/archive/1997/05/24">
<HTML><TITLE>Pranksters'
Home Base On the Block / Kesey selling legendary '60s
cabin in La Honda </TITLE><BODY
BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#000000" LINK="#0000FF"
VLINK="#000084">
<TABLE
WIDTH=100% BORDER=0 CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0>
<TR ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=MIDDLE>
<TD COLSPAN=6 ALIGN=CENTER
VALIGN=MIDDLE>
<IMG SRC="/chronicle/gfx/bluelogo.gif"
WIDTH=318 HEIGHT=50 BORDER=0
ALT="The San Francisco
Chronicle"><p>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=MIDDLE>
<TD>
<FONT SIZE=-1><A
HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article-list.cgi?News:MN:/chronic
le/archive/1997/05/24">News</A></FONT>
</TD>
<TD>
<FONT SIZE=-1><A
HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article-list.cgi?Business:BU:/chr
onicle/archive/1997/05/24">Business</A></FONT>
</TD>
<TD>
<FONT SIZE=-1><A
HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article-list.cgi?Editorials:ED:/c
hronicle/archive/1997/05/24">Commentary</A></FONT>
</TD>
<TD>
<FONT
SIZE=-1><A HREF="/sports">Sports</A></FONT>
</TD>
<TD>
<FONT SIZE=-1><A
HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article-list.cgi?Datebook:DD:/chr
onicle/archive/1997/05/24">Daily
Datebook</A></FONT>
</TD>
<TD>
<FONT SIZE=-1><A
HREF="/">The Gate</A></FONT>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<P>
<HR
NOSHADE>
<TABLE WIDTH=100%><TR><TD>
<FONT
SIZE=-1>
Saturday,
May 24, 1997
·
Page A13
</FONT>
</TD>
<TD ALIGN=RIGHT>
<FONT
SIZE=-1>
<A
HREF="/cgi-bin/chronicle/list-sections.cgi">
©1997
San Francisco Chronicle</A>
</FONT>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<HR
NOSHADE>
<P
ALIGN=CENTER>
<!-- AD
IMAGE/LINK BEGINS HERE *******************************************-->
<A
HREF="/cgi-bin/cntAds.cgi?from=pos20&to=http://www.newmedianews.com&gif=nmn_net
.gif">
<IMG
SRC="/place-ads/pos20/nmn_net.gif" BORDER=0 WIDTH=468 HEIGHT=60
ALT="Think Your Home Office Is Pretty
Slick?" VSPACE=1></A>
<!-- AD
IMAGE/LINK ENDS HERE ********************************************* -->
<H2>Pranksters' Home Base On the
Block<br>Kesey selling legendary '60s
cabin in La Honda </H2>
<I>Michael McCabe, Chronicle
Peninsula Bureau</I><P>
<P><B></B></P>
<FONT
SIZE=3>
<CENTER>
<TABLE
WIDTH=80% BORDER=0 CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0>
<TR><TD>
<p> Ken Kesey's legendary log cabin in La Honda,
site of some of the most
mind-bending
parties of the 1960s, is on the verge of being sold.
<p> The
prospective buyers are a nice, quiet Stanford University couple who
want a place to
write.
The yellow
two-bedroom cabin set in a grove of redwood trees
served as home
base for Kesey -- The Chief -- and his Merry Pranksters at
the dawning of
the Age of Aquarius.
<p> It was
on this three-acre lot that Kesey, author of the novel ``One Flew
Over the Cuckoo's
Nest,'' and his friends would climb aboard their famous
day-glo school
bus for freaky excursions to the Haight, Berkeley, and points
way beyond.
<p> Along
the way they held ``acid tests'' in public ballrooms, accompanied
by the music of
the Haight-
based Grateful
Dead, and free bowls of LSD-spiked punch.
<p> Reached
by telephone at his farm in Pleasant Hill, Ore., last night,
Kesey was in no
mood for questions.
<p> ``First
of all, it is not a nice little cabin,'' he growled. ``It is a
big nice old
house in the middle of a redwood forest.'' Then he turned the
telephone over to
his wife, Faye.
<p> Faye
said they are selling the cabin partly to get some money after
settling out of
court with a San Mateo County sheriff's deputy who sued
them. The deputy
said he suffered severe neck injuries after falling off a
bridge on Kesey's
property four years ago as he was responding to a call.
<p> ``We
also thought it was time to sell it because we are so far away and
it was starting
to get run down. Ken feels a little sad about selling.''
<p> On the
other hand, she said they both feel good about the couple from
Stanford who are
buying it. The asking price was $239,000. The sale has not
closed.
<p> ``I
think they want to do a little writing. There certainly is a lot of
good aura
there.''
<p> She
said Kesey put the finishing touches on his second novel, ``Sometimes
a Great Notion,''
at the cabin.
<p> In
1965, Kesey and 13 pals -- including Neal Cassaday, the inspiration
for one of Jack
Kerouac's central characters in ``On the Road'' -- were
arrested for
growing marijuana on the property. At the time, Kesey said he
was in the
bathroom painting flowers on the toilet bowl when he was attacked
by a state
narcotics officer who ``looked too much like Odd Job in the James
Bond movie
`Goldfinger.' ''
<p> The
house became a focal point for the ``backwoods mountain hippies'' of
the era, said
neighbor Jim Warren of Kings Mountain. The cabin was featured
in Tom Wolfe's
book, ``The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test'' and other works
chronicling the
antics of Kesey and the Merry Pranksters.
<p> ``I
remember after Kesey got busted the first time, they put out a yellow
and black
roadside marker that read, `No Left Turn Unstoned,''' laughed
Warren. ``It was
really a great, funky place.''
<p> Kesey
bought the cabin in the late 1950s, when he was a creative writing
student at
Stanford University. He lived there until the early 1970s with
Faye and two
children.
<p> Since
then, Kesey has rented the cabin to tenants, but over the past year
it has been
vacant. Because the cabin was never really locked, vandals have
stolen several
relics of the Merry Prankster era, Faye Kesey said. Pieces of
artwork,
collages, and other mementos are now missing from the shrine.
<p> ``There
are a lot of great memories at that house,'' Faye Kesey said.
``We both feel
confident that the new owners will take very good care of it
and treat it with
respect.''
</TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER><BR>
<CENTER>
<A
HREF="/cgi-bin/chronicle/nextprev.cgi?file=MN5082.DTL&directory=/chronicle/arch
ive/1997/05/24&go=prev">
<IMG
SRC="/graphics/larrow.red.gif" ALT="previous" BORDER=0
ALIGN=ABSMIDDLE></A>
Prev
Next
<A
HREF="/cgi-bin/chronicle/nextprev.cgi?file=MN5082.DTL&directory=/chronicle/arch
ive/1997/05/24&go=next">
<IMG
SRC="/graphics/rarrow.red.gif" ALT="articles" BORDER=0
ALIGN=ABSMIDDLE></A><BR>
article in this section
</CENTER>
<PRE>
<TABLE
WIDTH="100%">
<TR>
<TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=TOP>
<STRONG>
<A
HREF="/search"><B>Searches</B></A> |
<A
HREF="/news"><B>The Gate News Page</B></A> |
<A
HREF="/sports"><B>The Gate Sports Page</B></A> |
<A
HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/select.feedback.html"><B>Feedback</B></A>
|
<A
HREF="/"><B>The Gate</B></A>
</STRONG>
<P>
<FONT
SIZE=-1>
<A
HREF="/chronicle/info/copyright">©   The Chronicle
Publishing
Company</A>
</FONT>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------2A50F546420--
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:34:12 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Music...
I agree with mc,
the sound of Jack's voice has given me a much greater sense of
his rhythm when I
read his books. Not all writers have Jack's great ability or
wonderful voice
for reading but we are lucky to have tapes of Jack. I highly
recomend to all
beginning readers of Kerouac to grab a tape of Jack reading
from his own
work, nothing like it.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:22:55 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: More Prankster stuff
The May 25 issue
of the SF Examiner Magazine has an interesting story on
Carolyn Garcia
Adams (Mountain Girl). Cover story, with
an excellent
selection of
photos from the old days and now. Worth
going out to your
local bookstore
that carries out-of town Sunday papers for those of you
who follow Prankster/Dead
stuff. The Sunday edition is a joint
Examiner/Chronicle
production.
J Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:29:04 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Gargolye magazine
This may be
repeat information as I think I lost some mail during a recent
thunderstorm here
in the outback So excuse me if this is old news but the
latest issue of
Gargoyle Magazine, number 39/40, has an excerpt of Joan Haverty
Kerouac's
autobiography in it (this would be Jan's mother). Give it a look
should you spy a
copy.
One more thing,
any fans of Larry Eigner out there? Re-reading some of his work
as he died a few
months ago, I was happy to have my memory re-freshed to what a
fine poet he was.
Sorry he had to die for me to look at his work again...but if
you get a chance,
give Larry a read. Adios to a great poet.
dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:27:02 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Music....
Marie wrote:
(snip, snip)
>
>one of my
favorite pieces is his reading of RR in
October Earth on the CD
>boxed set
with steve allen improvising in background to keep the rhythms on
>piano. i
often put on kerouac tapes, CDs, etc and then scan the lines, as i
>listen to the
flow and beat of his voice. many great experiments
Hi, marie! This is one of my favorites, too (and I have
you to thank for it,
since you sent me
a copy!). The word
"experiment," as you use it here, is
exactly right,
too. Some of those cuts with Steve Allen
improvising in the
background are
experimental, and very successful.
"Pull My Daisy" (to shift to
JK film work) is
also an experiment. Perhaps the
willingness to experiment, and
bring
experimental accomplishments to a polished, performed state is JK's
greatest
achievement in terms of connecting with the works of Charlie Parker. I
see much of
Jack's work as the result of the same kind of practice that a jazz
band does....
sweaty pores, baggy clothes, perhaps in some garage somewhere,
hammering out the
next notes, or finding possibilities for new ones... no, that
didn't work--back
up and try some new notes... no, that didn't work well,
either--here, try
this... yes, YES! that's it. That's just the right sound
(word). Ahhhh.... Ommmm.... peace.
Great stuff! Great thread, here!
Regards, ---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:30:31 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Marie's Poem
Ahh, Marie, what
a jewel you are!
Thanks for the
sparkling poesy.... nice piece of work.
---Wes
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 17:24:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re-re-vision.
In-Reply-To: <3386DF15.5171@midusa.net>
the truth is
often relative to the mother of invention 5/24/97
>
> i keep
thinking that it's yesterdays tomorrow
>
> (i suspect
that the clocks
> are running backward
> eternally
dragging me
> foward and
toward
> yesterday's
tomorrow)
>
> be here now!
> the chorus
> of my dead fathers chants in my ears.
>
> (i have a
list of questions streching out
> to infinity plus one!
> (excitedly i begin to ask for
proof
of the holy
goof
> of life and love,
> heaven and hell,
> and the
kerouac estate)
> when,
> *poof!*
> they abandon me....
>
> leaving behind
a calendar!
>
> i fall into
> the abyss
> between what
happened
> and what
might have been,
> i dive deeply into
> the holy cracks
> of sidewalks
in eternal past,
> where
> time
is
> time
>
> is
eternally poised
> on the
threshold
> of a
day already
>
lived.
>
> mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:35:43 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: question 'bout John Cage archives.
In-Reply-To:
<199705231623.AA282864597@lulu.acns.nwu.edu>
At 10.37 23/05/97
-0500, Nick Weir-Williams wrote:
...
>himself. The
John Cage archives (or one third of them - he split up
>manuscripts,
correspondence, and other articles between three places) are at
>Northwestern
and are so meticulous and so organized and so easy for scholars
>to use.
...
gentle Nick,
i am very
interesting to John Cage archives,
it is possible to
connect & retrieve documents through
the internet?
every feedback is welcome,
my best
greetings,
Rinaldo.
*24 may 1996. *
one year on the Beat-L * 24 may 1997*
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:43:41 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Mr. Chaput Put on Notice
On May 24, 1997,
Phil Chaput wrote:
"...what I said was it was illegal
[for Gerald Nicosia] to 'xerox
and sell' an
author's letters, that when he told people it was for his
personal use and
then turned around and sold the letters THAT was illegal
... Does anyone
on the list think they can copy an author's words whether it
is in the form of
a letter or a manuscript or book or whatever and then sell
it for
cash."
Dear Mr. Chaput, May 24, 1997
This is the second or third time on
this Beat-List that you have
accused me of
criminal activity. To accuse a person of
a crime, when they
have not
committed one, is both slander and libel, and you can be brought to
court for damages
for bringing such harm to another person.
I AM PUTTING YOU ON NOTICE RIGHT NOW,
THAT IF YOU FALSELY ACCUSE ME
OF ANY MORE
CRIMES, I WILL BRING A SUIT AGAINST YOU FOR SLANDER AND/OR
LIBEL, AND SEEK
DAMAGES FROM YOU TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.
Let's look at this accusation of yours:
Exactly what crime did I commit, by
selling my research archive for
MEMORY BABE to
the University of Massachusetts?
You claim that because my archive
contained xeroxed Kerouac letters,
among many other
items, I committed a crime.
WHAT crime, Mr. Chaput? A crime has to have a name. I can think of
only two that
might apply.
Do you claim that these xerox letters
were STOLEN PROPERTY?
Either the xeroxes belonged to me, and
I could sell them, or they
were stolen, and
I could not.
I paid for those xeroxes, they were my
property, and I sold
them--not for
profit. (It would be hard for anyone to
contend I made a
profit from my
archive, which sold for $7,500, when the 300 interviews alone
required 50,000
miles of traveling, hotels, phone bills, etc., that easily
totalled more
than $7,500. And there were more than
25,000 separate pieces
in this archive!)
If these xeroxes are "stolen
property," then let Mr. Sampas go over
to the Lowell
Police Station and ask the Lowell police to make the library
turn the xeroxes
over to him.
WHY HASN'T MR. SAMPAS DONE THIS? The xeroxes have been sitting
there for the
past ten years!
The only other crime I can think of, in
this case, would be
COPYRIGHT
INFRINGEMENT. However, if it is a crime
for someone TO XEROX ANY
DOCUMENT THAT HE
HAS NOT HIMSELF WRITTEN, PURELY FOR SCHOLARLY USE, then
almost every
college student in America is guilty of copyright
infringement--and
that is absurd.
What we are talking about now is a
SINGLE XEROX OF EACH LETTER, used
for material in
the writing of my biography. WE ARE NOT
TALKING ABOUT
MAKING MULTIPLE
COPIES, ADVERTISING, and SELLING THEM.
NO ONE HAS EVER ASSERTED THAT SCHOLARS
AND WRITERS CANNOT MAKE
SINGLE COPIES FOR
THEIR OWN USE.
There was an issue a few years ago
about professors, who xeroxed 30
or 60 or 90
copies of certain books for all their students, so that the
students would
not have to buy the books. What happened
was the publishers
complained--I
believe thru the Authors Guild--and some sort of fund was set
up, so that when
university professors do this kind of thing, money is
contributed to a
general royalty fund to reimburse the publishers for lost
revenue. I am not sure of all the details, and would
be happy if someone
like Nick
Weir-Williams at Northwestern could clarify that.
BUT AGAIN, THERE HAS BEEN NO ACTION,
COURT RULING, etc., THAT HAS
PROHIBITED THE
INDIVIDUAL COPY FROM BEING MADE FOR SCHOLARLY USAGE. TO THE
BEST OF MY
KNOWLEDGE, NO ONE HAS EVER WON A COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT SUIT FOR
SUCH ACTIVITY.
If
Mr. Sampas feels the copyright infringement has occurred because
I placed all of
my research materials in a library (a crime I have never
heard anyone
being accused of), THEN LET HIM BRING A COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT
SUIT AGAINST
ME--with the knowledge, of course, that there are severe
penalties for
bringing frivolous lawsuits.
Could it be that Mr. Sampas has not
brought such a suit against me
in ten years
because he knows it would be deemed a frivolous lawsuit?
If I am not guilty of either THEFT or
COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT, what
is the crime I am
guilty of, Mr. Chaput? And if I am not
guilty of any
crime of this
nature, then you have been slandering and libeling me here on
the Beat-List for
the past week.
And that entitles me to take legal
action against you. You are
forewarned.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:59:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Who Gave Out Jan's Income Tax Returns?
Dear Phil, May 24, 1997
You have allowed a very big question to
go unanswered.
You claimed, originally, that you were
not getting the material for
your posts from
John Sampas. Then I asked about how you
got Jan Kerouac's
income
statements, and you change your tune and write:
"Also tell Gerry YES I DO GET SOME
INFORMATION from John Sampas I'm
not denying I get
SOME info from him."
Can you please tell us if you got Jan
Kerouac's income statements
from Mr. Sampas?
Because 1) if Mr. Sampas got them from
the IRS without permission,
thru some private
connection, he has broken the law.
Or 2) if Mr. Sampas got them from
Sterling Lord, who was both his
and Jan Kerouac's
agent, then Mr. Lord has breached his fiduciary
responsibility to
Jan Kerouac, because an agent is required to keep the
financial affairs
of his client COMPLETELY CONFIDENTIAL.
As Jan Kerouac's literary executor, I
would like to know if Mr.
Sterling Lord has
acted improperly as Ms. Kerouac's agent, since that would
be grounds for a
legal action against Mr. Lord.
So, Phil, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MATTER! Please tell us the source of
Jan Kerouac's
income statements that have been shown to you, since in your
May 22 post you
claimed to have EXACT FIGURES FOR JAN'S 1993 and 1994 INCOME.
Your earliest reply will be
appreciated. Thank you.
Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:21:44 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Gargolye magazine
In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 24 May 1997 13:29:04 EST from
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Dave, do you know
if this is the same piece that was published several years ag
o in a small
pamphlet or is this a different piece?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:27:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Law suits
Gentle
listmembers, I don't think Beat-l is the proper place to give or
take legal
depositions. Let's leave any talk of
lawsuits in the
attorney's office
where they belong or at least threaten each other
privately.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 17:34:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
May
24, 1997
Attila Gyensis
writes:
"...the financial assistance that
I have received from Mr. Sampas
amounts to a
grand total (let me check my calculator) $0, nada, zero, nulla,
nothing,
zip."
May I suggest, Mr. Gyensis, that you
are being a little coy in the
matter of
advertisements that have magically appeared in your magazine,
DHARMA BEAT?
In the short 3-year history of DHARMA
BEAT, you have received
numerous
full-page ads from Viking/Penguin, Mr. Sampas's publisher. Your
fall 1995 issue
even had TWO full-page ads from Viking.
You received a
half-page ad from
Rykodisc for a record that was produced by Jim Sampas.
You received a
full-page ad for BIG SKY MIND, the Buddhist Beat collection
with which Mr.
John Sampas was intimately connected (the editor states: "A
special debt of
gratitude is owed to John Sampas, the Literary Executor of
the Estate of
Jack Kerouac for his long-standing magnanimity..."). You also
received a
full-page ad for New York University's Beat conference, which
again was
indebted to Mr. Sampas (he provided Jack Kerouac paintings for
display in the
university museum, etc.)
Are you going to tell me that all those
ads were mere accidents?
No other Kerouac publication ever got
that kind of major
advertising,
including the KEROUAC CONNECTION, which has had a far more
distinguished
12-year history in terms of printing detailed Kerouac/Beat
scholarship,
memoirs, etc.
OK, I expect only more denials, but I
felt this stuff ought at least
to be put into
the record.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 17:41:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
At 08:27 PM
5/24/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Gentle
listmembers, I don't think Beat-l is the proper place to give or
>take legal
depositions. Let's leave any talk of
lawsuits in the
>attorney's
office where they belong or at least threaten each other
>privately.
>
>
Dear Bill, May 24, 1997
I beg your pardon, but Mr. Chaput has
several times used the
Beat-List to
publicly accuse me of criminal actions, of breaking the law.
I think I am fully justified in using
the same public forum to tell
him he will be
held accountable for whatever he says here that is illegal
(slander, libel)
and damaging to my professional reputation.
Thank you.
Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:21:28 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
In-Reply-To:
<199705250034.RAA10619@denmark.it.earthlink.net> from "Gerald
Nicosia" at May 24, 97
05:34:11 pm
Gerald Nicosia
writes:
> Attila
Gyensis writes:
>
> "...the financial assistance that
I have received from Mr. Sampas
> amounts to a
grand total (let me check my calculator) $0, nada, zero, nulla,
> nothing,
zip."
>
> May I suggest, Mr. Gyensis, that you
are being a little coy in the
> matter of
advertisements that have magically appeared in your magazine,
> DHARMA BEAT?
> In the short 3-year history of DHARMA
BEAT, you have received
> numerous
full-page ads from Viking/Penguin, Mr. Sampas's publisher. Your
> fall 1995
issue even had TWO full-page ads from Viking.
You received a
> half-page ad
from Rykodisc for a record that was produced by Jim Sampas.
> You received
a full-page ad for BIG SKY MIND, the Buddhist Beat collection
> with which
Mr. John Sampas was intimately connected (the editor states: "A
> special debt
of gratitude is owed to John Sampas, the Literary Executor of
...
The fact that you
would speak like this to Attila Gyenis proves to me
what you're doing
wrong.
I've hung out
with Attila a few times, and he is one of the sweetest,
gentlest most
philosophical and non-greedy people I've ever met.
Furthermore, the
one time I discussed you and your activities
with him (a few
months ago over some beers after he and I
attended the play
"Kerouac" together) he was taking your side,
and telling me
about some of your good points. You've
gone and
turned another
friend into an enemy! As you did with
me.
Your tactics are
all WRONG. This is NOT the way you solve
problems. Stop bullying people around. You could better
serve your own
cause with more peaceful tactics.
Recently at a
LaGuardia Airport taxi stand, I saw a great sign:
"BE
POLITE! IT'S NICE TO BE IMPORTANT, BUT
IT"S MORE IMPORTANT
TO BE
NICE". Please, Gerry Nicosia, start
going with the flow
a little
more. Estate battles happen. The world survives.
Let's talk about
something else. Maybe, to get us off on
a different
topic, you could tell us about the Vietnam book
you're
writing. I'd really like to hear about
it. When do
you expect it
will be published?
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:34:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Law suits
In a message
dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>he will be
held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging to my
professional
reputation.
> Thank you.
> Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
'Seems to me that
you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:45:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
In a message
dated 97-05-23 16:23:28 EDT, you write:
<< We are
always seeking suggestions of suitable artists to promote...
Any and all suggestions from the admirable
minds of Beat-L would be
appreciated.
>>
Charles Plymell
Pam
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:53:34 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: chatfield residence
<chatfield@VOYAGER.NET>
Subject: hello
hi, my name is
amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined because i
am doing a
research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many of the
people on this
list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question for
research is,
"How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he influenced by,
the "beat
generation"?"
if a few kind
people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to me,
or if anyone has
any answers to that question themselves, please e-mail me
at
chatfield@voyager.net
i would not like
to tie up the list with things that most people would find
annoying,
especially because i am new here. : )
thanks.
--amy jean
"hold me
down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's confined."
-r.e.m.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:48:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: hello
Hi Amy Jean,
Have you yet had a chance to search the
web for references on this
question? I
actually mad emy way to the list as a result of searching for
refs to Slim
Gaillard, which led me to Jack Kerouac and on to the Beat list.
If you're
interested and if you can use it I can send you a Netscape browser
bookmark list
with many of the relevant sites.Start
with list member Levi
Asher's Lierary
Kicks site at
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
The short reply to your question, which
others will ably expand on
is that Kerouac,
Allen Ginsberg, and William Burroughs - the core of the
Beat generation
writers - were very taken with a guy named Huncke, a small
time crook,
junkie, man about town, and occasional writer. He talked
regularly about
being and feeling Beat.
They added it to their vocabulary and
their friend John Clellon
Holmes (author of
"Go") talked to Jack Kerouac about being beat and some of
this material
appeared in "Go".
It was Jack who first talked about the
Beat Generation and Holmes
credited him with
that. first conversations were about 1947; "Go was
published in 1952
;the New York Times published a short piece about Beat
after Gilbert
Milstein, an editor there, noticed the reference to the Beat
Generation in
"Go" and asked Holmes to supply an article. [much of this is
from Dennis
McNally's "Desolate Angel: Jack
Kerouac and the Beat Generation".
************
So your question
might need to be rethought, since some might argue that
Jack and a small
circle of friends WERE the Beat Generation.... "How did
Jack kerouac
influence, and how was he influenced by, the "beat generation"?"
Antoine
Would also recommend folowing web site:
http://www.halcyon.com/colinp/beats.htm
The Beat Generation Archives
And
http://enterzone.berkeley.edu/ez/e2/articles/digaman.html
How Beat Happened by Steve Silberman
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:51:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: hello again
Hi again Amy
Jean....
And one more, the John Clellon Holmes
article This is the Beat
Generation for
the New York Times! available at:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Texts/ThisIsBeatGen.html
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 19:55:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Memory Babe Archive
Dear Friends on
the Beat-List: May 24, 1997
I feel it necessary to correct some
very misleading information that
Phil Chaput has
posted on the Beat-List concerning the MEMORY BABE archive.
He would have you
think that the archive has never been closed.
For all
intents and
purposes, it IS closed, and has been ever since Mr. Sampas went
over there to
complain about open access in June, 1995.
It is important that I warn you all,
lest you waste your time and
money traveling
to Lowell, Massachusetts to make use of this unique and
irreplaceable
collection.
HERE'S WHAT YOU'LL BE TOLD WHEN YOU
ARRIVE:
You cannot make full use of this
collection unless you get
permission from
the 300 people Gerald Nicosia interviewed.
Never mind that
100 of these
people are now dead. You must get
permission from the dead
people's heirs.
Where do you start? The university, I was told, has the addresses
of FIVE of these
people.
Does that sound like a daunting task? It is more than daunting--it
is AWESOME! I, who created this collection, could not now
find all 300
people and their
heirs. It is IMPOSSIBLE.
Never mind, of course, that all these
people consented to be
interviewed for a
major biography, knowing full well EVERYTHING THEY SAID
WAS BEING TAPED
AND WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR USE IN MY BOOK.
What about the 2,000 xerox Kerouac
letters? You can't use those
either, without
John Sampas's permission, and he has been known to make
getting his
permission a quite difficult process.
(Ask Steve Turner, who
wrote ANGELHEADED
HIPSTER, if you don't believe me.)
Well, you may say, MR. SAMPAS HAS EVERY
RIGHT TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM
READING THOSE
2,000 xerox Kerouac letters. No, he
doesn't.
Tomorrow, if I choose, I can read every
Kerouac letter at Columbia
University,
Stanford University, Bancroft Library (Berkeley), Reed College,
the Newberry
Library, and the Humanities Research Center at the University
of Texas,
Austin--WITHOUT MR. SAMPAS'S PERMISSION!!!
Surprised? Mr. Sampas has even phoned the University of
Texas and
Bancroft Library
in Berkeley, to insist that scholars could not see their
Kerouac letters
without his permission.
You know what Texas and Bancroft told
Mr. Sampas? Sorry, sir, YOU
DO NOT HAVE THAT
RIGHT.
If these libraries are breaking the law
by showing Kerouac letters
to scholars, why
hasn't Mr. Sampas taken them to court???
It is only because the University of
Massachusetts, Lowell, has bent
to Mr. Sampas's
will (I might say willfulness) that the MEMORY BABE
collection is
closed to the public.
For all of you who care about the
importance of this collection,
please know that I
AM TAKING LEGAL ACTION to free the MEMORY BABE archive,
and your support
could be very helpful.
In the meantime, better think twice
before packing your bags for a
scholarly trip to
Lowell. Better call librarian Martha
Mayo first, and
better have your
300 signed permissions in hand.
Sorry, but that's the way it is-- Gerry
Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:02:51 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
At 09:34 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message
dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>
>>he will
be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging to my
>professional
reputation.
>> Thank you.
>> Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia
>
>'Seems to me
that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>
>
C'mon, Rod, you
can do better than that. We expect
something REALLY NASTY
from you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even roll his eyeballs
at that one.
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:23:13 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
>I've hung out
with Attila a few times, and he is one of the sweetest,
>gentlest most
philosophical and non-greedy people I've ever met.
>Furthermore,
the one time I discussed you and your activities
>with him (a
few months ago over some beers after he and I
>attended the
play "Kerouac" together) he was taking your side,
>and telling
me about some of your good points.
You've gone and
>turned
another friend into an enemy! As you did
with me.
>Your tactics
are all WRONG. This is NOT the way you
solve
>problems. Stop bullying people around. You could better
>serve your
own cause with more peaceful tactics.
>------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro
Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
Levi, 5/24/97
Bentz Kirby commented about what a
"weird scene" it is on the
Beat-List, and
one of the weirdest things is how people here keep calling up
down, green red,
and enemies friends.
A few nights ago, Attila Gyensis told
(lied) to the Beat-L readers
that I had spent
years "demanding" to be invited to Lowell by Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! (a committee he is or has been a member of). The truth
is, I have never
so much as written Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! a single
letter, or even
called them on the phone.
Yet, Mr. Gyensis is supposed to be
"taking my side."
You were supposed to be my
"friend," and you falsely embarrass me
here on the
Beat-List, claiming I arbitrarily forced you to pull Jan's
PARROT FEVER from
your website (as if I were on some kind of power trip a la
Rod Anstee), when
I had already explained to you, in writing, in detail,
that I was being
legally constrained by Jan's heirs from letting you publish
the piece (even
on the internet) for nothing.
Now I don't expect Mr. Gyensis is
getting rich off John Sampas.
When I dropped
his name a few posts ago, it was because so much intense
scrutiny of my
and Jan's finances has been posted on this net by people like
Anstee and
Chaput. So I wanted to turn the tables
for a moment, just so
those on the
other side would know what it feels like to be asked questions
about every penny
you ever earned or were helped to earn.
When Mr. Gyensis makes false (and
essentially damaging) accusations
about me, I have
to wonder what his motives are, and I would have to be a
fool to think
that Mr. Sampas has not been helpful to him in publishing his
magazine.
The bottom line, here, Levi, is not
that I'm a mean or vicious
person (ask the
60 ladies over at my mom's nursing home, whom I visit every
day). The bottom line is that I'm tired of an
onslaught of vicious,
personal attacks
on me--which have all arisen because certain people don't
want to answer
the really important questions about what Mr. Sampas is doing
with Jack
Kerouac's archive. And I want those
people to know that I don't
lie down and play
dead at the first shove. I shove
back. And if you shove
harder, I shove
harder.
I'm ready to lower the intensity of
this debate any time the other
side is. Or perhaps more to the point, I'm ready to
play clean--without the
Rodman-like
kicks, elbows, and body-blocks--as soon as the other side shows
me the same
courtesy.
It's them you should be lecturing, not
me.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:27:00 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re:
Law suits
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> At 09:34 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >In a
message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
> >
> >>he
will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging to my
>
>professional reputation.
>
>> Thank you.
>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
> >
> >'Seems
to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
> >
> >
>
> C'mon, Rod,
you can do better than that. We expect
something REALLY NASTY
> from
you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even roll
his eyeballs at that one.
> Best, Gerry
What's with all
the Rodman-bashing???
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:36:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: hello
At 09:53 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>hi, my name
is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined because i
>am doing a
research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many of the
>people on
this list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question for
>research is,
"How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he influenced by,
>the
"beat generation"?"
>if a few kind
people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to me,
>or if anyone
has any answers to that question themselves, please e-mail me
>at
>chatfield@voyager.net
>i would not
like to tie up the list with things that most people would find
>annoying,
especially because i am new here. : )
>thanks.
>--amy jean
>
>
>
>
>"hold me
down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's confined."
>-r.e.m.
>
Dear Amy Jean-- May 24, 1997
Thanks for giving me the chance to show
I don't think about literary
estates and
lawsuits all my waking hours (my little daughter Wu Ji would
never allow
that).
Read my biography of Jack Kerouac,
MEMORY BABE (from University of
California
Press), or if you're not into 800-page books, read a shorter
version of things
by Steven Turner called ANGELHEADED HIPSTER (Viking); read
John Clellon
Holmes' NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE (reissued, I believe, from U.
of Arkansas Press);
read John Tytell's NAKED ANGELS; get ahold of the
catalogue to the
Whitney Museum Show: BEAT CULTURE AND THE NEW AMERICA (you
can order it from
the Whitney Museum Book Shop in New York City); and maybe
try listening to
HOWLS RAPS & ROARS, on record, CD, or tape from Fantasy
Records in
Berkeley. Better yet, if you are near
California, visit City
Lights Bookstore,
the poetry and Beat room upstairs, see if you can have
coffee with the
owner, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and sit in Kerouac's
corner in
Vesuvio's bar next door, where many of the old Beat poets still
hang out, like
Jack Micheline, Howard Hart, Eugene Ruggles, and Marty Matz.
Beat was a very
large community, of which only a small iceberg tip ever got
famous; it was
supportive, compassionate, open toward life, and in constant
pursuit of joy
and new experience--and Kerouac led the way.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:45:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
At 10:27 PM
5/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>>
>> At 09:34
PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> >In a
message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
>> >
>>
>>he will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging
to my
>>
>professional reputation.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
>> >
>>
>'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> C'mon,
Rod, you can do better than that. We
expect something REALLY NASTY
>> from you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even roll his eyeballs
at that one.
>> Best, Gerry
>
>What's with
all the Rodman-bashing???
>
Hey, Dave,
I LIKE Dennis Rodman. Why was that a bash?
Best, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:51:55 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Gargolye magazine
At 01:29 PM
5/24/97 EST, you wrote:
>This may be
repeat information as I think I lost some mail during a recent
>thunderstorm
here in the outback So excuse me if this is old news but the
>latest issue
of Gargoyle Magazine, number 39/40, has an excerpt of Joan Haverty
>Kerouac's
autobiography in it (this would be Jan's mother). Give it a look
>should you
spy a copy.
>
>One more
thing, any fans of Larry Eigner out there? Re-reading some of his work
>as he died a
few months ago, I was happy to have my memory re-freshed to what a
>fine poet he
was. Sorry he had to die for me to look at his work again...but if
>you get a
chance, give Larry a read. Adios to a great poet.
>
>dave B.
>
Dave, May 24, 1997
I believe Jack Foley, who was a close
friend of Eigner's, did a
memorial show for
him on Foley's radio program (I forget the name) on
KPFA-FM radio in
Berkeley. If you call the station, they
can probably sell
you a copy of the
show, if you're interested.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:58:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lies, Money, and VIdeotape
In-Reply-To: <199705250121.SAA23363@netcom.netcom.com>
On Sat, 24 May
1997, Levi Asher wrote:
> Your tactics
are all WRONG. This is NOT the way you
solve
>
problems. Stop bullying people
around. You could better
> serve your
own cause with more peaceful tactics.
>
> Please, Gerry Nicosia, start going with the
flow
> a little
more. Estate battles happen. The world survives.
> Let's talk
about something else. Maybe, to get us
off on
> a different
topic, you could tell us about the Vietnam book
> you're
writing. I'd really like to hear about
it. When do
> you expect
it will be published?
levi and friends:
"start going with the flow"???? bullshit. that's the
rap weasels the
world over use. it's a cop-out. it's the kind of thing
that's said when
people are sitting on the lawn, way far out there away
from passion and
the "real" world, if you will. there is no question that i
wish the
whole estate
battle could be solved with a magic swing of a wand, but
it aint gonna
happen that way. none of any waterheaded
zen crap will
zone-out a long
(and necessary) airing of the two sides' positions. don't
zero in on
nicosia as the "bad" guy. levi, you say some very wise things
a lot of the
time--and you have a boffo web site--but quit the whining
about
nicosia. if you hate the back and forth
poison re: the estate
battle, why not
get on anstee and chaput, too??? the couple of times i've
read posts reZ:
the estate thing, you've been on nicosia's case. perhaps
i am being a bit
simplistic here, but ....
we should be (and
i am) glad nicosia is rapping on the list--about
anything he
wants. if we can think lisa rabey's rap on cocksucking is
okay for the
list, why whip out the cattleprods when nicosia et al go
back and forth on
the estate thing?
i like reading
about the battle.
let's let the
camps have it out.
it's much more
interesting than all the geek posts from people wondering
whether george
bush, george clooney, kesey, socks the cat, and bozo the
clown, etc. are
beat or not.
let the voices
roll. keep yer fingers on the delete key. and keep yer
heads open. after
all, this is advertised as a "forum", right?
regards,
steve
Steve R. Smith
Graduate Teaching
Assistant
Department of
English
Portland State
University
Box 751 Portland,
OR 97207
503-725-3556
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:06:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hello
In a message
dated 97-05-24 21:49:37 EDT, chatfield@VOYAGER.NET (chatfield
residence)
writes:
<< i would
not like to tie up the list with things that most people would
find
annoying, especially because i am new here. :
)
thanks. >>
Dear amy jean -
what a refreshing
and considerate attitude. you are setting a good example.
others who
consider themselves Kerouac experts could learn from your gentle
thoughtfulness.
Talking about the beats is why we're here, most of us, so you
could never annoy
us with that.
In response to
your question: sometimes the phrase "beat generation" refers
to the writers
and other principals, and sometimes (perhaps less often) it is
used to indicate
all the people of that generation. If you want to know how
Kerouac
influenced the beat generation writers, you need to realize that he,
Allen Ginsberg
and William Burroughs are the only ones whom everyone agrees
"belong"
as beat writers. They were all friends and they influenced each
other.
It is sometimes
thought that Kerouac had more influence on the following
generation -
let's call them the hippies for nostalgia's sake! - than he did
on people of his
own age group.
I concur with Antoine
about the various resources available and would also
recommend
spending some
time with the Jack Kerouac ROMnibus
CD-ROM if you can borrow
(or afford) one.
Good luck!
Jul
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:44:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
>If you want
to start a serious discussion about Jack, Phil, then answer me
>this. Did you know Jack when your were a kid? Tell us about it. I'm sure
>others will
be interested and it will allow you and me to talk about
>something
where we aren't on opposite sides of the fence.
>
>
>Jerry Cimino
>
>Thanks Jerry,
I did meet Jack once although it is not much of a story and
it's kind of a
sad one to me. It was around 1966 (I'm not sure of the exact
date) I was 13 or
14 years old and my father had picked up Jack and the two
of them were
going to go into Boston for a night out on the town. My father
in his grand
wisdom had thought it would be a memorable experience for me to
go with them,
probably so I could get to know Jack and maybe he was thinking
that at some
point in my life I would realize what an incredibly cool
experience it
would have been. So anyway they drove up to where I was
hanging around at
the time (a park in downtown Lowell) called Lucy Larcom
park. I was a
long haired hippie at the time and my father lived in another
area of town than
I did because my parents had divorced. That's why I hadn't
met Jack before
because my father mostly went to his house and picked him up
because he didn't
drive and my father also had a car. He had only been over
to my father's
house a few times, although Jack had met my father's mother
my Memere and he
also introduced his mother Gabrielle to my Memere. Memere
to Memere. So
anyway he called me over to the car and introduced Jack to me.
He was sitting in
the back of the car and I reached in and shook his hand
and said hello.
My father then told me that they were going into Boston for
the night and he
asked me if I wanted to go with him. Like a
fool-moron-jerk-idiot-
I declined and told them politely thanks anyway but
I'd would rather
just hang around the park. There was some kind of action
going on and at
the time (I was probably going to score and get high or
something) I
wasn't into Kerouac then. I just knew him as the famous Lowell
author and good
friend of my dad's. My brother on the other hand was really
into Jack and had
read every single book Jack had written. I realized later
that Jack had
probably gotten into the back seat that night assuming I would
go with them and
maybe it was kind of an insult but then again maybe it was
just so Jack
could be more comfortable. What I remember of him that night is
that he already
had a good head start on his night out. In other words he
was already
starting to get pretty drunk and I could tell. He also looked
fat to me at the
time and red faced. Looking back I wouldn't now think he
was fat but
that's what I thought of him at the time. I guess I was
expecting
something else. So that's about it the only other time was about 2
or 3 years later
in 69 when they buried him. I was going to St. Joseph's
High School at
the time which is just down the street from St. Jean the
Baptist church
where they had the funeral mass for Jack. I skipped out of
class and walked
down the street and stood in the doorway of Voyer's florist
shop. I knew Joe
Voyer he was a pretty cool guy (he also knew Jack and my
dad) and let me
hang out or hide out while I watched my father as a
pallbearer carry
Jack's body into the church. The night I didn't go with
them Jack and my
dad went over and asked my brother Tony if he wanted to go
with them and of
course he jumped at the chance. He had the most memorable
experience of his
life. He really loved Jack. He got to drill Jack with all
kinds of
questions like "what was your favorite drug?" things only a teen
would ask. I have
been trying to get him to write a story about it for a
long time. He
promises me now he will do it soon. He lives in California.
Jack did mention
me in one of his letters when he asked my dad " ...have you
found your boy
yet..." I had ran away from home for a while at 14 and had
started my own
"on the road" trip. Stella had also sent a Christmas card in
1968 asking my
dad "Have you found Philip?" I still have that card and
letter and I
cherish them. To this day I regret not having gone with my dad
and Jack that
night. So that's how I got to know and love Jack Kerouac.
Thanks for asking
and listening. Phil
I was wondering
if anyone else on the list might have a story to tell about
meeting Jack or
any of the beats. Might be an interesting thread.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:01:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
... The night I
didn't go with
>them Jack and
my dad went over and asked my brother Tony if he wanted to go
>with them and
of course he jumped at the chance. He had the most memorable
>experience of
his life. He really loved Jack. He got to drill Jack with all
>kinds of
questions like "what was your favorite drug?" things only a teen
>would ask. I
have been trying to get him to write a story about it for a
>long time. He
promises me now he will do it soon. He lives in California.
>Jack did
mention me in one of his letters when he asked my dad " ...have you
>found your
boy yet..." I had ran away from home for a while at 14 and had
>started my
own "on the road" trip. Stella had also sent a Christmas card in
>1968 asking
my dad "Have you found Philip?" I still have that card and
>letter and I
cherish them. To this day I regret not having gone with my dad
>and Jack that
night. So that's how I got to know and love Jack Kerouac.
>Thanks for
asking and listening. Phil
>
>I was
wondering if anyone else on the list might have a story to tell about
>meeting Jack
or any of the beats. Might be an interesting thread.
>
Phil, May 24, 1997
I remember sitting in your dad's
kitchen, and Tony telling me that
same story. I think I even put it on tape.
Thanks for your memories.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:01:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Bush
Well, Steve, I
think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull and
cross bones.
Peace,
Hillary, no, Bill yes,
Snoopy yes, Socks
the Cat no
me, yes, my wife,
no
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:09:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re:
hello
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
> At 09:53 PM
5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >hi, my
name is amy jean, and i am new on this list. i have joined
> because i
> >am doing
a research project on jack kerouac and i thought that many
> of the
> >people on
this list would be knowledgeable in that area. My question
> for
> >research
is, "How did Jack kerouac influence, and how was he
> influenced
by,
> >the
"beat generation"?"
> >if a few
kind people have any ideas on what books would be helpful to
> me,
> >or if
anyone has any answers to that question themselves, please
> e-mail me
> >at
>
>chatfield@voyager.net
> >i would
not like to tie up the list with things that most people
> would find
>
>annoying, especially because i am new here. : )
> >thanks.
> >--amy
jean
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>"hold me down, catching my throat, make me pray, say, love's
>
confined."
> >-r.e.m.
> >
> Dear Amy
Jean-- May 24, 1997
>
> Thanks for giving me the chance to
show I don't think about
> literary
> estates and
lawsuits all my waking hours (my little daughter Wu Ji
> would
> never allow
that).
> Read my biography of Jack Kerouac,
MEMORY BABE (from
> University
of
> California
Press), or if you're not into 800-page books, read a
> shorter
> version of
things by Steven Turner called ANGELHEADED HIPSTER
> (Viking);
read
> John Clellon
Holmes' NOTHING MORE TO DECLARE (reissued, I believe,
> from U.
> of Arkansas
Press); read John Tytell's NAKED ANGELS; get ahold of the
> catalogue to
the Whitney Museum Show: BEAT CULTURE AND THE NEW AMERICA
> (you
> can order it
from the Whitney Museum Book Shop in New York City); and
> maybe
> try
listening to HOWLS RAPS & ROARS, on record, CD, or tape from
> Fantasy
> Records in
Berkeley. Better yet, if you are near
California, visit
> City
> Lights
Bookstore, the poetry and Beat room upstairs, see if you can
> have
> coffee with
the owner, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and sit in
> Kerouac's
> corner in
Vesuvio's bar next door, where many of the old Beat poets
> still
> hang out,
like Jack Micheline, Howard Hart, Eugene Ruggles, and Marty
> Matz.
> Beat was a
very large community, of which only a small iceberg tip
> ever got
> famous; it
was supportive, compassionate, open toward life, and in
> constant
> pursuit of
joy and new experience--and Kerouac led the way.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
Amy Jean:
If you is
interested in beat and Kerouac, what better and cooler thing
could there be
than to post an question and get an answer from one of
the preeminent
biographers of Kerouac. Man, the www is
the collective
unconscious. Can you imagine the chat rooms with Neal,
Jack, Allen,
Vidal, Snyder,
Corson, and Rexroth ranting through the night.
Wow, like a holy
vision, it lights up my night!!!!
You don't know
how lucky you are. And I am glad that I
do know how
lucky I am to be
here today.
Thanks Gerry, and
you are just going to have to let the shit slid man.
Sometimes it
works out better that way.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:14:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization: Law
Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Phil Chaput
wrote:
> >If you
want to start a serious discussion about Jack, Phil, then
> answer me
>
>this. Did you know Jack when your
were a kid? Tell us about it.
> I'm sure
> >others
will be interested and it will allow you and me to talk about
>
>something where we aren't on opposite sides of the fence.
> >
> >
> >Jerry
Cimino
> >
> >Thanks
Jerry, I did meet Jack once although it is not much of a story
> and
> it's kind of
a sad one to me. It was around 1966 (I'm not sure of the
> exact
> date) I was
13 or 14 years old and my father had picked up Jack and
> the two
> of them were
going to go into Boston for a night out on the town.
Thanks for the
story. As I just said when I came across
Gerry's post to
the young
inquirer, Man, this is a great place to be.
I do appreciate
it.
Peace,
PS,
Wasn't something
written by Jack, or by a biographer about a kid from
Lowell being
along on a trip?
Well, the best I
can say is that Jack died on my 16th birthday. October
21.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:19:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Philip Whalen
Question re:
Philip Whalen:
Can anyone tell me how much of Whalen's
poetry is still in print and
from who?
And, does anyone know where/in-what-book his
poem "big, high song to
somebody"
was published?
Thanks, Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:19:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: ...your story Phil and Jack in Brooklyn
That was great to read Phil. Thanks
very much. Tell your brother
that you now have
a bunch of salivating expectant readers waiting...and that
you won't give
out his home address if he writes the damn story! I can put
it in with this
and the piece that you sent me by Nicosia about Jack and
your Dad on the
road to Montreal. Thanks.
Having grown up in Brooklyn - the
Bedford-Stuyvesant/Flatbush/Park
Slope area - I'd
appreciate it if anyone could tell me where in Brooklyn
Jack was staying
with his aunt while he was going to Horace Mann.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:32:06 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
Gentlemen! (Phil and Gerry)!
What a delight to
get both of your posts back to back, one after another on
my email. Nicosia sitting in Chaput Sr.'s kitchen
talking to Phil's brother
about Jack. All of us having been caught in the cross
fire the last few
days, who'd have
thought it! :^)
Gerry, what about
you? I don't think you ever met Jack in
person, but I
could be
mistaken. And if not, what got you in to
him in the first place.
Maybe we can put
the war aside for a little while and talk about the man
himself. And then if and when we start *debating*
again maybe things will be
a little more
diffused. Whaddya say all? It's a holiday weekend... even in
real shooting
wars they usually stop firing on Christmas eve and Christmas
being a long way
off maybe this is the next best thing!
Jerry Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:38:04 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
Gerry,
Is there an easy way to tell whether
you actually did tape Tony
telling that
story? ...and is it part of the
holdings of your archive at
Lowell? Thanks
Gerry.
Thanks you also by the way for your
kind offer of the signed copy of
"Memory
Babe". A friend beat you to the punch in finding me a copy of an
earlier edition.
The response to my request was amazing, because in rapid
succession I had
e-mails from Derek Beaulieu, Jerry Cimino, and yourself and
a phone call!
from Rod Anstee...all with offers of the book! So, at any
rate, it's on its
way to me - and not a moment too soon. I'm heading into
the home stretch
on McNally's book (after David Rhaesa blew by me at high
speed! - he had
been about 40 pages back when we started tracking each
other's progress)
and will need another Kerouac biography to keep going
with. Am now
interested also in "Angel Headed Hipster" after seeing it
mentioned several
times in recent posts. Still have the Arthur and Kit
Knoght, Gregory
Stephenson, and Challis books waiting in the wings as backups.
How did you come to do the "Memory
Babe" bio? Did you arrive at it
from academia /
teaching?
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky and
Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:05:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Law suits
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%97052420300442@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Gentle
listmembers, I don't think Beat-l is the proper place to give or
>take legal
depositions. Let's leave any talk of
lawsuits in the
>attorney's
office where they belong or at least threaten each other
>privately.
However, if suits
are filed, please inform the list.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for items stolen
from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic &
Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:43:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Beat and Marriage
>Well, Steve,
I think that Barbara Bush is beat, George is pure skull and
>cross bones.
-snip-
>me, yes, my
wife, no
>
>--
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
Is it possible to
be beat and married?
Regards,
Andrew
cosmic@clark.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:27:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Law suits
Gerald Nicosia
wrote:
>
> At 10:27 PM
5/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
> >>
> >> At
09:34 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>
>In a message dated 97-05-24 20:43:44 EDT, you write:
> >>
>
> >>
>>he will be held accountable for whatever he says here that is damaging
> to my
> >>
>professional reputation.
> >>
>> Thank you.
> >>
>> Yours truly, Gerald
Nicosia
> >>
>
> >>
>'Seems to me that you should consider suing yourself, too, Gerry.
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> >>
C'mon, Rod, you can do better than that.
We expect something REALLY NASTY
> >>
from you. Dennis Rodman wouldn't even
roll his eyeballs at that one.
>
>> Best, Gerry
> >
> >What's
with all the Rodman-bashing???
> >
> Hey, Dave,
>
> I LIKE Dennis Rodman. Why was that a bash?
> Best, Gerry
i misread. my foul.
i like Dennis too.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:43:54 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Tony's Story and Gerry's....
Antoine Maloney
wrote:
>
> Gerry,
>
> Is there an easy way to tell whether
you actually did tape Tony
> telling that
story? ...and is it part of the
holdings of your archive at
> Lowell?
Thanks Gerry.
>
> Thanks you also by the way for your
kind offer of the signed copy of
> "Memory
Babe". A friend beat you to the punch in finding me a copy of an
> earlier
edition. The response to my request was amazing, because in rapid
> succession I
had e-mails from Derek Beaulieu, Jerry Cimino, and yourself and
> a phone
call! from Rod Anstee...all with offers of the book! So, at any
> rate, it's
on its way to me - and not a moment too soon. I'm heading into
> the home
stretch on McNally's book (after David Rhaesa blew by me at high
> speed! - he
had been about 40 pages back when we started tracking each
> other's
progress) and will need another Kerouac biography to keep going
> with. Am now
interested also in "Angel Headed Hipster" after seeing it
> mentioned
several times in recent posts. Still have the Arthur and Kit
> Knoght,
Gregory Stephenson, and Challis books waiting in the wings as backups.
>
> How
did you come to do the "Memory Babe" bio? Did you arrive at it
> from academia / teaching?
>
>
Antoine
> Voice
contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
>
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to
do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
Right now I'm reading Memory Babe and Charter's
Kerouac at the same
time. very
different styles both incredible. I also
checked you Dharma
Lion about Ginsberg but haven't really cracked it
yet. though three at
the same time might be fun.
david rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 05:13:54 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From:
Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: A
bright sunny day in May
Hey Mark,
I got the Kerouac Quarterly, thanks.
Hows it going. Still I haven't made it to Portland but I'm enjoying my stay
here in Northern California. I might be back to New
York for a week or so in
July but I don't know it I'll make it up north.
well, now I think that things will start to slowly
start dying down. But it
has been an interesting ride. I personally think I got
a little scholarship
out of this whole thing, since I learned a few new
things.
later, Attila