=========================================================================
Date:
Mon, 29 May 1995 22:22:45 -0500
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Sender:
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From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Viral Ponderings
If "language is a virus from Outer space,"
is poetry a vaccine?
And
Quien es? eh?
Yours in Bill,
Alan C. Reese
=========================================================================
Date:
Mon, 29 May 1995 22:28:08 -0500
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From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Quien es?
Does anyone know if Wm Burroughs Communications (PO
BOX 147/Lawrence,KS)
has any network capabilities? I have a fax number, but
would like to
know if they are online. If they aren't, what can we
do to get them where
they should be?
Uncle
Bill's spirit should be soaring the cyber airwaves before....
Yours in Bill,
Alan
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 30 May 1995 11:09:06 EDT
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Sender:
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From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: Viral Ponderings
In-Reply-To:
Message of Mon, 29 May 1995 22:22:45 -0500 from <S72UREE@TOWSONVX>
Only if it's cut-up poetry!
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:33:48 EDT
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Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
otr film
I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is casting
Sean Penn as Dean
and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon
Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery Clift
Sal. Just to get
the ball rolling on this discussion group, what do you
think? What pair
of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean Moriarty
and Sal Paradise?
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT
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From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: otr film
In-Reply-To: In
reply to your message of WED 07 JUN 1995 20:33:48 EDT
>I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is
casting Sean Penn as Dean
>and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon
>Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery
Clift Sal. Just to get
>the ball rolling on this discussion group, what do
you think? What pair
>of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean
Moriarty and Sal Paradise?
If the above rumour is true, then it substantiates the
rumour that
Mr. Coppola is in the biz for the bucks.
Sean Penn and Brad Pitt are fine kid actors... cutey
pies. I don't
think that's what's needed for OTR, though. Actually,
I don't think the
lead characters need to be necessarily be kids (or
those faces we
automatically relate-to as kids'... Michael J Fox, for
instance).
Wouldn't it be great to see Lyle Lovett play Dean?
Just like when OTR was announced as a books-on-tape,
I'm eagerly
awaiting the product, but I don't expect to be
enchanted by the
thing. Besides, I think Dharma Bums and Subteranneans
would make
better films.
Jim
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:28:45 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: otr film
In-Reply-To:
Message of Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT from <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
On Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:28:01 EDT Stedman, Jim said:
>>I've heard rumors that Francis Ford Coppola is
casting Sean Penn as Dean
>>and Brad Pitt as Sal Paradise. Kerouac said that he thought Marlon
>>Brando should have played Dean and Montgomery
Clift Sal. Just to get
>>the ball rolling on this discussion group,
what do you think? What pair
>>of actors would you cast as the ideal Dean
Moriarty and Sal Paradise?
>If the above rumour is true, then it substantiates
the rumour that
>Mr. Coppola is in the biz for the bucks.
>Sean Penn and Brad Pitt are fine kid actors...
cutey pies. I don't
>think that's what's needed for OTR, though.
Actually, I don't think the
>lead characters need to be necessarily be kids (or
those faces we
>automatically relate-to as kids'... Michael J Fox,
for instance).
>Wouldn't it be great to see Lyle Lovett play Dean?
>Just like when OTR was announced as a
books-on-tape, I'm eagerly
>awaiting the product, but I don't expect to be
enchanted by the
>thing. Besides, I think Dharma Bums and
Subteranneans would make
>better films.
>Jim
The Subterraneans was made into a movie in 1960. George Peppard played
Leo Percepied and Leslie Caron played Mardou Fox. It was full of
gratuitious violence. Kerouac was furious about it.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 10:11:34 -0400
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject:
Re: otr film
I'd rather see Penn and Pitt reverse roles, Penn as
Paradise, Pitt as Moriarty.
Pitt is
beautiful, no doubt, but he is something of a dunderhead who excels at
"noble savage" type roles. Penn could better carry off the portrayal of
the
sensitive and
intelligent Sal Paradise, alter-ego of Jack himself. Especially
if Coppola uses
a 1st person voiceover narration, I think Pitt would be
disastrous.
I'd like to see Gary Oldman as Paradise and Val Kilmer
as Moriarty, but I'm not
picking.
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy being born is busy dying."
"Then he was told: Remember all you have seen,
because everything forgotten
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 16:25:56 EDT
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Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
I haven't been able to get to alt.books.beat
generation through my
netnews group.
Can anyone give me a specific address so that I can try
to subscribe directly?
Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 1995 15:32:18 -0700
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Patrick M. Mirucki" <Patriick@IX.NETCOM.COM>
>I haven't been able to get to alt.books.beat
generation through my
>netnews group.
Can anyone give me a specific address so that I can try
>to subscribe directly? Thanks.
>
>
Well..It looks as though your alreaady subscribed to
it. I'm currently
subscribed to the Beat Generation List and received
your message.
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:16:41 +1000
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Sender:
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From:
Brian Lynch <Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject:
OTR casting
I thought the following message was great advice on
possible casting for the
film version of On the Road:
***
I'd rather see Penn and Pitt reverse roles, Penn as
Paradise, Pitt as
Moriarty.
Pitt is
beautiful, no doubt, but he is something of a dunderhead who excels
at
"noble savage" type roles. Penn could better carry off the portrayal of
the
sensitive and
intelligent Sal Paradise, alter-ego of Jack himself.
Especially
if Coppola uses
a 1st person voiceover narration, I think Pitt would be
disastrous.
I'd like to see Gary Oldman as Paradise and Val Kilmer
as Moriarty, but I'm
not
picking.
-
Mark S. Gordon
***
Let's not forget that Dean Moriarty was the alter-ego
representation for Neil
Cassady, who was very handsome, as well as
rugged--Pitt might work well
indeed (I agree that he'd be better off as Dean rather
than Sal). Val Kilmer
as Moriarty crossed my mind, too, but I wouldn't want
to see the Sal/Kerouac
character come off as less physical than Moriarty--Kerouac,
in addition to
vying with Cassady in the handsomeness department, was
a good-sized, rugged
guy himself (football at Columbia).
Someone else
suggested Lyle Lovett for Moriarty--that would definitely be
interesting, although Lyle would really have to
stretch to capture the
speed-rapping manic brilliance of Cassady.
Let's keep
those casting suggestions coming!
Perhaps we can inspire an
alternative, low-budget counterproposal to the Coppola
project!
Brian K. Lynch
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:32:43 +1000
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From: Brian Lynch
<Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: a
previous message
In case this didn't make it to the List. I was responding to the original
call which mentioned that Kerouac had thought Brando
would make a good Dean
and Montgomery Cliff would be the best Sal for the
film version of On the
Road:
"I think Kerouac had it about right. If we try to find those of the
appropriate age in the present time, I'd be interested
in seeing Johnny Depp
have a go at Sal and let Anthony Kiedis (have to cut
his hair) of the Red Hot
Chili Peppers try on Dean."
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:22:27 -0400
Reply-To:
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Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject:
Kerouac Conference at NYU
Did anyone else attend the Kerouac conference at NYU,
held earlier this week.
Here are some snapshot observations:
1. I came away with a heightened appreciation for
Kerouac as a poet. In fact,
I think it may be fair to say that he was a poet
FIRST, and a fiction writer
second.
2. Gregory Corso is in deep, deep trouble personally
and I hope the people who
know and love him (Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, etc.) are
trying to save him.
3. Kerouac left an incredible crush of material
behind: books, journals, poems,
paintings, drawings, letters, notes. It may be that
most of what he wrote hasn't
even been released yet. Not only was this a revelation to me, but it
served as
a reminder that writers (which I am) and artists need
to be creating all the
time in as many mediums as they can. Never again will
I leave my house without a
notebook and pen and not feel a twinge of guilt. Kerouac may have had failings
as a person - we all do - but his writer's discipline
has to be considered the
standard.
Mark Gordon
"He not busy being born is busy dying."
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:24:24 -0400
Reply-To:
ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject:
Re: OTR casting
In addition to difficulties recreating the breakneck
pace of Dean Moriarty's
style, Lyle Lovett would have problems with Dean's
overwhelming physicality.
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 9 Jun 1995 17:18:19 EDT
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From:
"Tracey L. Milton" <milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject:
Ann Charters in Framingham, MA 6/17
Ann Charters in Framingham, MA
Ann Charters, Kerouac biographer, and editor of the
recently published
Collected Letters and Portable Kerouac will speak at
Border's Bookstore,
85 Worcester Rd (Rte 9), Framingham, MA at 2:00 PM,
Saturday, June 17. For
information call (508)875-2321.
posted by tracey on behalf of Lowell appreciates
Kerouac!
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:43:15 EDT
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Sender:
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From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Road Movie
I came upon this professional note in the May issue of
PMLA which I
thought I'd pass on:
"Steven Cohan and Ina Rae Hark seek submissions
for a collection of essays on the road movie. The book seeks to look at
the road movie historically and culturally from a
variety of critical
and theoretical perspectives. Consideration of the road move's
relations to questions of nationalism, sexuality,
technology, and genre
are especially welcome; papers examining connections
between road films,
road literature (e.g. Kerouac), and television (e.g.
Route 66) are also
invited.
Contributors should send 2-page proposals and vitae by 15
August 1995 to both Cohan, Dept. of English, Syracuse
Univ., Syracuse,
NY 13244 (fax 315 443-5390), and Hark, Dept. of
English, Univ. of South
Carolina, Columbia 29208 (fax 803 777-1302) Preliminary
inquiries may be
sent to smcohan@mailbox.syr.edu and
hark@hsscls.hssc.scarolina.edu
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 14 Jun 1995 23:42:38 -0500
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From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Uncle Bill
What's the concensus of opinion out there on WB's
appearance in the
Nike commercial?
Does anyone know the physical, mental status of
Gregory Corso? Heard he was
doing poorly.
I'm reading Kerouac's letters and find the Charters
explanatory interludes
a bit unnecessary, slightly intrusive. and somewhat
repetitive. The last
letter from Sebastian Sampas really foretells the
coming of Dean Moriarty.
Anyone else out there perusing same?
Alan C.
Reese
Baltimore
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 15 Jun 1995 11:21:47 EDT
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: Uncle Bill
In-Reply-To:
Message of Wed, 14 Jun 1995 23:42:38 -0500 from <S72UREE@TOWSONVX>
At first, I thought some of Charters' footnotes were
obvious. Is there
really a need to identify G.B. Shaw as an Irish
dramatist? Given the
wide audience of the Selected Letters, however, maybe
it is necessary.
Teaching freshman at Brooklyn College, it often
surprises me how little
they know of literature or history.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:23:09 -0500
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Sender:
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From:
"ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: Uncle Bill
Shouldn't a footnote not only be informative, but
relevant? For example,
the Shaw note as a case in point. Is it going to help
a freshman or any
other ignorant lout who is bothering to read K.'s
letters to know that
Shaw was an Irish dramatist? Shouldn't there be
something more to
connect the reference to K.'s state of mind, themes,
characters, or
whatever? I think by eliminating the unnecessary and
redundant in Charters'
footnotes and explanatory notes, the collection of
letters could have included
more kerouac letters.
ACR
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 15 Jun 1995 17:33:17 EDT
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Sender:
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From:
"Tracey L. Milton" <milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject:
Ann Charters Visit (fwd)
> Ann Charters in Framingham, MA
>
> Ann Charters, Kerouac biographer, and editor of
the recently published
> Collected Letters and Portable Kerouac will speak
at Border's Bookstore,
> 85 Worcester Rd (Rte 9), Framingham, MA at 2:00
PM, Saturday, June 17. For
> information call (508)875-2321.
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 16 Jun 1995 09:36:21 -0700
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Sender:
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From:
Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Uncle Bill
In-Reply-To:
<01HRQGJWYDBM8Y6V76@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
I found it useful to know that Oscar Wilde had been
imprisoned for
homosexuality--found it in a footnote in the Kerouac
letters book by
Charters.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:44:36 EDT
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
kerouac jack's
Does anybody know of a restaurant in the Chicago area
called Kerouac Jack's? I
f anyone has been there, I'd like to know what you
thought of it. I'm heading
for Chicago and am wondering if it's worth a visit.
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 10:43:25 -0500
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
William Baker <c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: kerouac jack's
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%95062009470883@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
No but look forward to seeing you in the windy
city.Bill BakerOn Tue, 20 Jun
1995, Bill Gargan wrote:
> Does anybody know of a restaurant in the Chicago
area called Kerouac Jack's?
I
> f anyone has been there, I'd like to know what
you thought of it. I'm heading
> for Chicago and am wondering if it's worth a
visit.
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 15:40:08 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
Re: kerouac jack's
In-Reply-To:
Message of Tue, 20 Jun 1995 10:43:25 -0500 from
<c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Got your new e-mail address. See you at the EALS mtg.
=========================================================================
Date:
Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:38:02 EDT
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Sender:
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From:
Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:
What's Burroughs up to?
Does anybody have any information about what William
S. Burroughs has been up
to recently?
I've read (I forget where) that he isn't traveling much but I
don't know if that means he no longer makes public appearances
or reads,
teaches, etc.
I've wanted to hear him speak/perform for most of my adult life
and would greatly appreciate any info anyone might
have on the subject, also
anything on recent or upcoming publications.
thanks,
Win
Mattingly
gmatt1@ukcc.uky.edu
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:49:25 EDT
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
mARK hEMENWAY <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject:
Re: What's Burroughs up to?
Win,
You are right. My info is that WSB does not travel and
really doesn't make
public appearances, although he has done telephone
hook-ups for the 94 NYU
Conference and one or two others.
A book of his letters is being published this year, or
is already out. I
don't have the details at hand, but the bookstroe
should be able to help
out. You can also call 1-800-KEROUAC for an excellent
catalog of current
beat stuff, they may have it. Let me also reccommend
"Beat Scene"
Magazine. It's a British publication that does a great
job of covering the
beats past and present. The issue before last (I
think) featured WSB.
Write: Kevin Ring, 27 Court Leet, Binley Woods, NR,
Coventry,
Warwickshire, CV3 2JQ, England.
I am co-publisher of "Dharma beat" magazine.
We aim to help publicize
Kerouac and sometimes beat related activities,
publications and
organizations. Spring 95 included articles on
Desolation Peak, Mexico City
Blues, Big Sur and events around the country. Send me
your snail mail
address and I will send you a sample if you are
interested.
Mark Hemenway
mhemenway@s1.drc.com
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:08:49 +0100
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
RADLEY-FASCIONE M D <M.D.Radley-fascione@CITY.AC.UK>
Subject:
WSB
Win
Don't know if you've heard, but Uncle Bill has had a
new work recently
published, by Viking in States I think, called My
Education (A Book of
Dreams). It's great and covers old Tangier days up to
relatively recent
times in Lawrence...Highly recommended, buy it now,
you won't regret it.
Also, I assume you know about the recordings Bill made
with the Disposable
Heroes of Hipophrasy (sp?), Spare Ass Annie, a couple
of years ago now
(course you do!)
Daniel
P.S. Does anyone have, or know where I can get, a
definitive list of WSB
works post Western Lands? Any help appreciated.
Thanks
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 21 Jun 1995 10:44:54 -0400
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
Richard Centing <rcenting@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:
Re: kerouac jack's
In-Reply-To:
Your message of Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:44:36 -0400 (EDT)
BEAT-L:what would Kerouac Jack's serve:apple pie and
coffee?
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 22 Jun 1995 14:14:39 EDT
Reply-To:
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Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:
WSB letters
Someone wanted a citation for Burroughs' letters the
other day. It's
*The Letters of William S. Burroughs 1945-1959.* NY:
Viking, 1993.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 22 Jun 1995 12:12:44 -0700
Reply-To:
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Sender:
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From:
Jim Harrod <jaharrod@UCI.EDU>
Subject:
Burroughs Sighting
Andrei Condrescu's new book - "The Blood
Countess" - has an endorsement on
the back of the dust jacket by William S. Burroughs -
he calls the book "a
page turner".....
Jim Harrod
jaharrod@uci.edu
url = http://bookweb.cwis.uci.edu:8042/
ph = (714) 824-7878
fx = (714) 824-8545
=========================================================================
Date:
Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:48:50 EST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
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From:
"Holden, Lindel" <lholden%smtplink@RELAY.NSWC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:
Fire Watcher
So are there
any openings for fire watchers up there in the
Cascades? by
the Skagit with a view of Hozomeen?
samsara sam
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:31:03 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
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From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Kerouac
This may seem impertinent coming from a young person
who has been thrown
into the Category: Generation X, but my husband told
me about BEAT-L
because I recently read "Visions of Gerard"
and was moved by Kerouac's
sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older
brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I have
found that
losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a young
age was one of the
most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,
and so he became a "saintly" image in my
past. Kerouac's honest approach to
immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.
I've started to read "On the Road" and I am
up to his arrival in
Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's travels in
"Zen and the Art..." I
can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are of
the people he will meet
and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik,
but in
my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas and
experiences that Kerouac
writes about.
Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is looking
for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe there is
someone who can
understand why I feel close to a certain writer, and
since I haven't yet
seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would give
this a try. :)
Go in peace.
Kristen
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 11:58:57 -0500
Reply-To:
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From:
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
As another new member of the list, I'm glad to see it
works! Personally I
feel Kerouac takes his place as one of the great
writers because of what
Kirsten says here. He meant a lot to me when I was
growing up for completely
different yet equally intense and personal reasons. As
a young Brit growing
up in gloomy ealy 70's London, he made me get on a
Greyhound and explore
America for three months as soon as I could at age 17,
and as I explored his
works he spoke to me again and again. That was before
I went into
publishing, discovered a lot more about what his style
meant and how
important all of that was to the future of writing.
For that matter he also
got me into jazz, and is probably a good proportion of
the reason I'm now
living here in the States twenty years later. I think
that both his honesty
and his writing style do get into people's souls in a
way few if any others
do, and that's what stands out. And of course looking
back some of it seems
naive now, but there's always plenty more in the
writing to explore. So
maybe others feel the same way?
Nick W-W
>This may seem impertinent coming from a young
person who has been thrown
>into the Category: Generation X, but my husband
told me about BEAT-L
>because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
>sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older
>brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I
have found that
>losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a
young age was one of the
>most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,
>and so he became a "saintly" image in my
past. Kerouac's honest approach to
>immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.
>
>I've started to read "On the Road" and I
am up to his arrival in
>Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's travels
in "Zen and the Art..." I
>can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are
of the people he will meet
>and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik,
but in
>my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas
and experiences that Kerouac
>writes about.
Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is looking
>for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe there
is someone who can
>understand why I feel close to a certain writer,
and since I haven't yet
>seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would
give this a try. :)
>
>Go in peace.
>Kristen
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:05:24 -0500
Reply-To:
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From:
DAVIS ALAN <davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
Right on, Kristen.
It's why we read, and it's who we are.
Al
On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> This may seem impertinent coming from a young
person who has been thrown
> into the Category: Generation X, but my husband
told me about BEAT-L
> because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
> sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother. I, too, had an older
> brother who died when I was 8 years old...and I
have found that
> losing someone that I loved so dearly at such a
young age was one of the
> most difficult events in my life. I never had a chance to know my brother,
> and so he became a "saintly" image in
my past. Kerouac's honest approach to
> immortalize his brother brought tears to my eyes.
>
> I've started to read "On the Road" and
I am up to his arrival in
> Denver. It reminds me somewhat of Pirsig's
travels in "Zen and the Art..." I
> can't wait to hear what Kerouac's perceptions are
of the people he will meet
> and the places he will go. I am only 25, and a far cry from a Beatnik,
but in
> my heart I feel connected somewhat to the ideas
and experiences that Kerouac
> writes about.
Forgive me if this note is not what this Mailing list is
looking
> for; sometimes I just need to know that maybe
there is someone who can
> understand why I feel close to a certain writer,
and since I haven't yet
> seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would
give this a try. :)
>
> Go in peace.
> Kristen
>
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 21:18:14 +0300
Reply-To:
jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
Comments: To: pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU
In-Reply-To:
<9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu> (message from Kristen
VanRiper
on Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:31:03 -0500)
Very interesting post.
Funny that you read `Visions of Gerard' before OTR; I
don't think I've gotten around to reading Gerard,
though I think I've looked
at it. It's not
the first title that comes to mind when you mention Kerouac.
I wondered reading your post about how you would react
to OTR; perhaps I was
thinking more of Neal Cassady's `First Third'. I had a friend once who
couldn't stand OTR, while I couldn't stand her
favorite book, `Been down so
long...' by Richard Farina. I dumped her, of course. As for Pirsig's book, I
absolutely can't stand that either. I wondered if liking one of these books
automatically means you won't like certain others.
Somehow I find I can relate very well to the Beats and
their writing, while I
simply cannot relate to so-called classical English
and American literature
(before Joyce, say).
I just fail to see what's so good about it. It is
_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly dull.
About `First Third', I gave a copy to an old friend of
mine who read one of
the more sexist passages aloud and threw it on the
floor in disgust. I picked
it up and kept it, so it was a great present from my
point of view. As for
the (ex-) friend, he went from being a misogynist with
great promise to a
pussy-whipped puppet who can't think for himself. It's really a shame. Hate
to see a good man go bad like that. But remember, folks, it just goes to show
that Cassady is a great barometer for these
things. And if that fails to
please, try Bukowski.
(Sorry, Vonnegut's just a little too cute and clever
for me. As Jack would
say, his stuff is `just fiction').
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 14:35:46 -0600
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Sender:
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From:
Martin Taylor <mtaylor@GPU.SRV.UALBERTA.CA>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <9506281631.AA02001@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> understand why I feel close to a certain writer,
and since I haven't yet
> seen a Vonnegut mailing list, I thought I would
give this a try. :)
Hello Kristen, try the newsgroup:
alt.books.kurt-vonnegut
martin
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:57:16 -0700
Reply-To:
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Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Frank Beacham (via RadioMail)" <beacham@RADIOMAIL.NET>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
To Kristen:
To me your comments are just what this mailing list is
about. Thanks for
the best reason I've heard lately on why to read
Kerouac.
Frank Beacham
163 Amsterdam Ave. #361
New York, NY 10023
(212) 873-9349
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:00:54 -0500
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From:
Willard Goodwin <wgoodwin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:
Classic English lit
Joseph Rodrigue wrote:
>Somehow I find I can relate very well to the Beats
and their writing, while I
>simply cannot relate to so-called classical
English and American literature
>(before Joyce, say). I just fail to see what's so good about
it. It is
>_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly dull.
And yet the Beats themselves had very great reverence
for the English
Romantics (see my favorite Ginsberg poem, "Wales
Visitation," an explicit
allusion to Wordsworth), Blake especially, and much of
the ancient sacred
literature; and in American literature for Melville at
least, of the
"classics." Of course Joseph, de gustibus
non disputandum est.
P.S. At this Center we have deep archival research
collections in Beats
(even if Stanford recently acquired the great Ginsberg
archive).
Willard Goodwin, Bibliographer
Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center
University of Texas at Austin
P.O. Box 7219
Austin, TX 78713-7219
(512) 471-9113; FAX (512) 471-9646
=========================================================================
Date:
Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:18:12 CST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
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From:
GUITAR GOD <SGUNTER@BVILLE.NWSC.K12.AR.US>
Organization: Bentonville High School
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
I, too, am
new to the list but found your post enlightening. How
good it is to find this list, to find other
seekers. Yes, go in
peace, and may you stay forever young....thanks.... (PS
im sure i
will find out how but is it possible to digest
Beat-l?)
############
Steve Gunter
BHS/NWACC
Bentonville,AR 72712
####################
=========================================================================
Date: Thu,
29 Jun 1995 01:38:08 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
>because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
>sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother.
Coolness, Kristen....Yours is the first post I've
received since starting
this list and you love my favorite Kerouac book.
The connection
I've made to Kerouac's writings has always been through the
heart. To this day I remember the way I felt the first
time I read Visions of
G about 20 years ago - as if I had stumbled upon a
well of unashamed
sweetness and tenderness. You could send me running
back to the book right
now, except that I'm just starting on William
Vollmann's long "Fathers and
Crows".
There is something about Vollmann that reminds me of Kerouac.
Perhaps they are both just the kind of sensitive bad
boys that some women
love (on paper at least).
Glad to hear from all of you!
Julie Hulvey
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:30:52 +0100
Reply-To:
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From:
"Andy Petrie... 01473 224001" <petrie_a@SVHDEV.BT.CO.UK>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
Hello from sunny England...
First of all, greetings to all on this list. :) I signed up a few days ago, and
things were quiet at first, before Kirsten's
post. Now more and more of us seem
to be crawling out from under our respective stones...
Did I just happen to sign
on at a quiet period?
Well, like I say, I'm new to the list, and relatively
new to the Beat. My first
great love was poetry of all kinds, which of course
led to "Leaves of Grass",
"Howl" etc.
I'm now immersed in "On the Road", which I figured was as good
a
place to start as any.
Do correct me if I'm wrong - suggestions always welcome!
Love and Peace,
Andy
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 07:00:27 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Gene Simakowicz <Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
Wow!
I just signed on the list a few days ago also. It's
great to be here. As for
the Kerouac reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is
probably the Bible. How
about a question to kick off some newsgroup
discussion?
Do you think On The Road would make a good movie?
If so, whom would you cast in the two main roles?
Gene
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 07:41:36 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject:
Re[2]: Kerouac
In-Reply-To: In
reply to your message of WED 28 JUN 1995 23:00:27 EDT
>Wow!
>I just signed on the list a few days ago also.
It's great to be here. As for
>the Kerouac reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is
probably the Bible. How
>about a question to kick off some newsgroup
discussion?
>
>Do you think On The Road would make a good movie?
>If so, whom would you cast in the two main roles?
>
>Gene
OTR is one of FF Cop.'s projects, even as we speak,
but I don't think
it's been announced who is appearing in the leading
roles. I wouldn't
mind getting into a discussion about how _we_ would
try and treat the
production, were it ours to treat.
This will probably be the one film that folks will
have to hang Jack's
raincoat on... and I think my treatment would include
more than the OTR
narrative. It would be interesting to have the action
presented (through
flashback or whatever) by a 1967 Jack. The film would
then include not
only the story of OTR, but also the fall-out of OTR.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:54:32 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.91.950628143322.97629A-100000@gpu2.srv.ualberta.ca>
from "Martin Taylor" at Jun 28, 95 02:35:46 pm
> Hello Kristen, try the newsgroup:
>
> alt.books.kurt-vonnegut
>
> martin
thank you! :)
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:07:48 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
>
> Joseph Rodrigue wrote:
>
> >Somehow I find I can relate very well to the
Beats and their writing, while I
> >simply cannot relate to so-called classical
English and American literature
> >(before Joyce, say). I just fail to see what's so good about
it. It is
> >_much_ too verbose and almost unrelievedly
dull.
>
> And yet the Beats themselves had very great
reverence for the English
> Romantics (see my favorite Ginsberg poem,
"Wales Visitation," an explicit
> allusion to Wordsworth), Blake especially, and
much of the ancient sacred
> literature; and in American literature for
Melville at least, of the
> "classics." Of course Joseph, de
gustibus non disputandum est.
I was thinking about this comment yesterday, and I
realize why it is that
I am not always impressed with "classical"
literature... I think it's
because I'm impetuous, for the most part, and Kerouac
does offer that
spontaneous, from-the-gut, sort of writing that
appeals to my impetuous
nature. I don't
want to say that my youth is the only reason for being
this way...I've met many impatient people of all ages
:).. and even
though I find it to be my biggest fault, it is part of
what makes me the
person that I am. I guess it's all about what you are
willing to accept in
your mind and your soul. :) There will come a time when I will be more
accepting. In some ways, I am. Joe talked about how
others would
recommend books to him that he found deplorable. I know of so many
writers that I can relate to that have nothing in
common, really,
other than my personal connection. I always try to keep an
open mind. :)
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:24:04 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<950629013806_80620634@aol.com> from "Julie Hulvey" at
Jun 29,
95
01:38:08 am
>
> >because I recently read "Visions of
Gerard" and was moved by Kerouac's
> >sincere yet fictionalized perception of his brother.
>
> Coolness, Kristen....Yours is the first post I've
received since starting
> this list and you love my favorite Kerouac book.
> The connection I've made to Kerouac's writings has
always been through the
> heart. To this day I remember the way I felt the
first time I read Visions of
> G about 20 years ago - as if I had stumbled upon
a well of unashamed
> sweetness and tenderness. You could send me
running back to the book right
> now, except that I'm just starting on William
Vollmann's long "Fathers and
> Crows".
There is something about Vollmann that reminds me of Kerouac.
> Perhaps they are both just the kind of sensitive
bad boys that some women
> love (on paper at least).
I was wondering how other women feel about Kerouac.
:) This morning, I
got to thinking about the women I've read about so far
in OTR. Granted,
it is only a perception, and I'm only in San Francisco
right now, but it
reminds me of my mother and the sadness I feel when I
think of all that
she expected out of life and how disappointed and
disallusioned she
became. I think
there is a "sensitive bad boy" in me.
Pete Townsend
said, "I am a man and a woman," and I
believe that he meant sexuality to
be a perception and not a gonad. :) Jack's perception of women may
sadden me, but it was his reality. It's a reality that exists today.
I also got to thinking about "Visions of
Gerard" and Jack's mother; how she
lived with the abuse of an alcoholic husband who could
not face
death. My mother, to this day, will not accept and
chooses to live in a
"drunken stupor" of her own. Jack shows that gender is not a factor when
one chooses to deny life.
Nice to hear from you. :) Peace.
Kristen
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:30:23 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
cyberJack <jackb@MSI.NET>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
> I, too,
am new to the list but found your post enlightening. How
>good it is to find this list, to find other
seekers.
I am always encouraged that one can find seekers
everywhere.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:43:02 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
JoAnn Ruvoli <jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<9506291307.AA25229@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
On Thu, 29 Jun 1995, Kristen VanRiper wrote:
> because I'm impetuous, for the most part, and
Kerouac does offer that
> spontaneous, from-the-gut, sort of writing that
appeals to my impetuous
> nature.
Kerouac thought
of writing as a performance, like a jazz musician who
has only one chance to perform a night, Kerouac wrote
(performed)
straight through. You can't change or revise a improv
jazz solo, and
Kerouac believed the same about writing.
JoAnne
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:49:42 EDT
Reply-To:
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Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject:
First Reading of On The Road
In-Reply-To: In
reply to your message of THU 29 JUN 1995 00:24:04 EDT
Date: Summer, 1973
Place: Guest room at Helen Forbes' house, a few miles
out of Nairobi
Circumstances: Our family grew up in Kenya (my dad was
in the United
Nations). Hell of a party melted into my having to
spend the night at
the Forbes' place, rather than motorcycling home (20
miles). I woke up,
and the place was empty. The headboard of the guest
bed doubled as a
book case, and I tipped my head back to scan the
titles. _On The Road_
was the first and only book I pulled from the
collection.
I recognized the author's name from readings about
Dylan (Anthony
Scaduto's book, mostly), and from the liner notes off
of "Blood On The
Tracks" (I think).
Once I started reading, I knew I was in trouble. My
travelling feet had
long been itching... and I only stayed in one place
long enough to
finish the book (one sitting).
I turned the last page, ran outside, hopped on my
Norton 750, and tore
off for Mombasa (300-some miles away) (where I was
certain that Kim was
waiting for me).
As it turned out, the book has remained faithful. Kim
had found a new
guy, the bike led me into a bad wreck, and Scaduto's
biography has been
poo-pooed. Yeah, OTR remains faithful to that first
(and all subsequent)
readings... and I suppose Dylan has as well.
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:54:33 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: First Reading of On The Road
In-Reply-To:
<29JUN95.10614910.0010.MUSIC@NMU.EDU> from "Stedman,
Jim" at Jun 29, 95 09:49:42 am
> readings... and I suppose Dylan has as well.
> Jim Stedman
How true.
Kristen VanRiper
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:03:45 -0400
Reply-To:
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Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Stan Bernstein <sbernst@PANIX.COM>
Subject:
Kerouac audio tape
In-Reply-To:
<29JUN95.08308993.0076.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
At a Street Fair on Carmine Street in Greenwich
Village, New York City
about five years ago, a vender had set up his table
with "Spoken
Arts"-type tape casettes. I purchased one called
"Jack Kerouac & Neal
Cassady--a private recording 1953--1954." The
notice within the casette
case reads: "Jack & Neal together 1953-54 @
Cassady's house, San Jose,
CA. Neal reads Proust; Jack tries to correct his
pronunciation of
'Gilberte'; Jack sings and reads from Dr. Sax. Neal
approves, Neal
discusses Burroughs, Comment by Carolyn; 1967,8(?)
reading from Vanity of
Dulouz and talking." Publisher of the casette is
listed as Cassette
Gazette, 83 rue
de la Tombe Issoire 75014 Paris, France.
Listened to this casette during a long bus trip and
really enjoyed it.
Wonder if other such tapes are floating around and if
so where do you get
them?
Thanks to whoever started this list--a truly great
idea.
All best wishes/SB
sbernst@panix.com
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:21:22 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Andrew J Schwartz <schwrtz@MAGICNET.NET>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac audio tape
>sbernst@panix.com said:::
>Listened to this casette during a long bus trip
and really enjoyed it.
>Wonder if other such tapes are floating around and
if so where do you get
>them?
>
Ryko Disc came out with a box set of beat spoken
performances a few years
ago that seems to have some similar material.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:58:32 BST
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
James Douglas Jack - Tartan Warrior! <jjack@MPC-UK.COM>
Subject:
The tongue of angels
Salutations and halos,
Great to hear
such rapturous appreciation of writing. Anyone else out
there
into Gregory Corso as well ? And Vonnegut ? And Thomas Wolfe...
I know
I'm probably pushing the definition of 'beat' here, but what the
forceps,
if it's cool it's cool. I like that idea of writing being a one
off
performance - reminds me of the debate in 'Naked Lunch'.
A
confession to end : I've never read any Kerouac. Is his prose as
alive as
Ginsbergs songs ? Which one should I start with ?
Peace
and Pirhanas,
JJ
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:05:19 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
Message of Thu, 29 Jun 1995 01:38:08 -0400 from <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
I just discovered Vollman, myself! In the past week I've read Whores for
Gloria and The Rainbow Stories. Both are *fantastic* and definitely Kerouac-
esque, in subject matter (S.F. counterculture and
Tenderloin street scene) and
flowing, seemingly spontaneous prose style. In White Knights, an autobiograph-
ical account of Vollman's experiences hanging out with
S.F. skinheads, one of
the skinheads remarks on Vollman's story (while
loading a bong-hit): "Dee says
you need work on your grammar, you use too many run-on
sentences. She should
know, she went to college." What a perfect comment on education, on how
often
we kill what is good and natural and real in language,
the forces Kerouac and
the other beats wrote against! I think Vollman owes much to Kerouac (and
Burroughs, to whom he is often compared as an explorer
of the dark seamy
underbelly of the city.) What do the rest of you think about Vollman?
Is he a
direct descendent of the beats? How does his vision of the Tenderloin compare
with Kerouac's?
I'm not sure if a this list is even the place to talk about a
gen. x'er like Vollman, but this is the first contact
I've had with others who
have even heard of him, so I thought I'd speak up...
--Win Mattingly
Also, what about Bukowski? Again, not strictly a beat but definitely
some con-
nection. Does
anybody know about any Bukowski lists?
I'd also like to join in
some dialogue about H. Selby, esp. Requiem for a Dream
and whatever he's doing
these days (I heard he teaches at USC, what about
recent writing and confer-
ences?)
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:33:58 EDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Ron Morrow <MORROW@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject:
First Reading Of "On The Road"
The first time I read "On The Road" was in
1974. It was the
Summertime and I was scheduled to start at University
in
the Fall. So, I decided to do some travelling. My
brother
had given me the book and I read it as I hitchhiked
from
Toronto to Vancouver and then north to Alaska. I was
17 at
the time and had an opportunity to expand my horizons
in
many different ways. Reading "On The Road"
and being on the
road at the same time is an experience that I will
always
remember.
Hope those of you who haven't read it yet will enjoy
it as
much as I did that Summer.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:08:09 +5000
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Comments: Authenticated
sender is <joehler@[198.51.81.100]>
From:
James Oehler <joehler@SUCCESS.NET>
Subject:
Burroughs&Bukowski
Hello all,
I just joined
to the group too. And I just heard someone mention
Bukowski, his books are great. I have read practically
all of them, I
especially like what he has to say about people, that
all of us
insane only a few a are sane. Which is quite true, but
I am still on
the insane side for now. There is some other things I
like about him
that I cant remember right now. So any Burroughs
readers out there,
so far I have only read "Junky", which is an
interesting book. By the
way has anybody read his sons (I know he died) books i know he has one out
called
"Speed in combination w/ something else. Any new
books by Bukowski
out yet? Anybody see "Barfly" that was a
great movie. Also did
anybody pick up the record w/ William Burroughs and
Kurt Cobain, that
is a great record.
Never heard of Vollman can someone email a reply
and tell me who he is. As far as Kerouac books go I
havent got into
him yet, all though my dad has all his Kerouac books
layin around the
house, maybe I ll pick one up. But right now I am
reading "Birth of
tradgedy" by Friedrich Nietzsche, pretty
interesting so far. Alrighty
hope this sparks up some talking, cuz I am interested
in those ?'s I
asked.
Later
--
__________________________________
joehler@success.net
__________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:12:33 -0500
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
William Baker <c60wxb1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<47D61018EF@bville.nwsc.k12.ar.us>
please take me off this list as fascinating as it is
takes too much
time.Good luck to you all and best wishes to Bill G.
Bill Baker.
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 08:57:54 PDT
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Tim Bowden <tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>
Organization: Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA
Subject:
Re: Kerouac audio tape
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.950629095046.19148A-100000@panix3.panix.com>
Stan Bernstein <sbernst@PANIX.COM writes:
------------------------------- Original Message
--------------------------
At a Street Fair on Carmine Street in Greenwich
Village, New York City
about five years ago, a vender had set up his table
with "Spoken
Arts"-type tape casettes. I purchased one called
"Jack Kerouac & Neal
Cassady--a private recording 1953--1954." The
notice within the casette
case reads: "Jack & Neal together 1953-54 @
Cassady's house, San Jose,
CA. Neal reads Proust; Jack tries to correct his
pronunciation of
'Gilberte'; Jack sings and reads from Dr. Sax. Neal
approves, Neal
discusses Burroughs, Comment by Carolyn; 1967,8(?)
reading from Vanity of
Dulouz and talking." Publisher of the casette is
listed as Cassette
Gazette, 83 rue
de la Tombe Issoire 75014 Paris, France.
-------------------------End Original Message
----------------------------
This note brings back memories. I lived for the last four months
of 1972 with Carolyn Cassady, and I heard that
recording on the old
boxy rell-to-reel on which it was recorded. I particularly recall
Jack leaning into the mike while Neal was intoning in
the background
now with his `Jeeeeeel-bahrt!' corrections during a
recitation from
Proust.
Sure like to know if it were available generally...
.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.
|
<tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |
| NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of
storytellers. |
`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'
=========================================================================
Date:
Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:18:19 -0400
Reply-To:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From:
Kirk Moe Brown <kirkmoe@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject:
Re: The tongue of angels
In-Reply-To:
<9506291458.AA21174@comdev>
I wanted to thank Kristin and everyone else for making
this list
come alive. The
silence that first greeted my subscription was
disheartening -- I wondered how a list on the Beats
could possible not
buzz with heartfelt, spontaneous conversation. I guess we were all just
a little shy...
I think it makes perfect sense for us today to find
new sources of life and
energy in the Beats.
Generation X or not, perhaps for all of us the
Beats single a strong, generational, and general voice
of disbelief in and
dissaproval of a world gone mad with consumerism and
the strength of
machine organization.
For me, I see the beats rejecting that accepted
version of insanity for another version, perhaps
rooted in, and at least
influenced by, the classics of the past. The beats traded the grim
reality of atomic-age living for revealing in the
vitality of their own
lives, dreams, aspirations, and just general
angelicness.
Unfortunately, I think the Beats leave us with
something of a mixed bag.
Kristin pointed out the treatment of women in
OTR. I find it disturbing,
too. I think that, in a way, Beat shortcomings in
that area can be a
saving grace for
the work. We see that the Beats weren't
infallible
sages, but
seekers just like us. Perhaps we can
model ourselves after
their bravery and
spirit, but with new emphasis on a more inclusive
vision of life
and ourselves.
I hope this isn't
too pedagogical for this list. I really
just wanted to
say thanks to
everybody for writing -- I've loved reading your stuff.
Kirk
______________________________________________
"To see
clearly, you must first listen carefully."
Jaime Rodriguez
La Raza
(on the eve of
the LA Rodney King trial riots)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 17:23:04 BST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: James Douglas Jack - Tartan Warrior!
<jjack@MPC-UK.COM>
Subject: Dressed up like a carcrash
To all the Bukowski devotees - yeah! I
read 'Post Office' and it really is
a fresh breeze.
'In the morning it was still morning and I was not dead..'
Adieu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:17:13 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The tongue of angels
There's a lot to
this. You can't expect Kerouac, who was just a regular
young guy of the
1940's with a prodigious talent, to have absorbed all the
politically
correct mores we (try) to live by now. And he was the chronicler
of it all, more
than he was that much of an active participant. We
understand the
whole movement because of his skill in bringing it to us so
vibrantly. I
think it's possible to love Kerouac's writing without getting
particularly
excited by the lifestyle it portrays, or especially liking the
rest of the work
that others put out. HOWL was a genuinely astonishing piece
of work, original
and revolutionary, but (and I realize I may be destroying
the good-natured
tone of the group over the last few days) the rest of it is
pretty
second-rate, the spontaneityof it really a copy of what Kerouac had
come up with as a
new approach to writing.
Also remember
that Kerouac, ageing and drunk, caused a lot of trouble in the
mid 60's by
blasting off against anti-Vietnam war demonstrators. I think
quite a lot of us
might not have liked him too much. He's still my literary
hero though
Nick W-W
>I wanted to
thank Kristin and everyone else for making this list
>come
alive. The silence that first greeted my
subscription was
>disheartening
-- I wondered how a list on the Beats could possible not
>buzz with
heartfelt, spontaneous conversation. I
guess we were all just
>a little
shy...
>
>I think it
makes perfect sense for us today to find new sources of life and
>energy in the
Beats. Generation X or not, perhaps for
all of us the
>Beats single
a strong, generational, and general voice of disbelief in and
>dissaproval
of a world gone mad with consumerism and the strength of
>machine
organization.
>
>For me, I see
the beats rejecting that accepted
>version of
insanity for another version, perhaps rooted in, and at least
>influenced
by, the classics of the past. The beats
traded the grim
>reality of
atomic-age living for revealing in the vitality of their own
>lives,
dreams, aspirations, and just general angelicness.
>
>Unfortunately,
I think the Beats leave us with something of a mixed bag.
>Kristin
pointed out the treatment of women in OTR.
I find it disturbing,
>too. I think that, in a way, Beat shortcomings in
that area can be a
>saving grace
for the work. We see that the Beats
weren't infallible
>sages, but
seekers just like us. Perhaps we can
model ourselves after
>their bravery
and spirit, but with new emphasis on a more inclusive
>vision of
life and ourselves.
>
>I hope this
isn't too pedagogical for this list. I
really just wanted to
>say thanks to
everybody for writing -- I've loved reading your stuff.
>
>Kirk
>
>______________________________________________
>
>"To see
clearly, you must first listen carefully."
>Jaime
Rodriguez La Raza
>(on the eve
of the LA Rodney King trial riots)
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 20:37:28 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: The tongue of angels
In-Reply-To:
<199506291712.AA239905939@lulu.acns.nwu.edu> (message from Nick
Weir-Williams on Thu, 29 Jun 1995
12:17:13 -0500)
> From: Nick
Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
> HOWL was a
genuinely astonishing piece of work, original and revolutionary,
> but (and I
realize I may be destroying the good-natured tone of the group
> over the
last few days) the rest of it is pretty second-rate,
What specifically
was second-rate?
> the
spontaneity of it really a copy of what Kerouac had come up with as a
> new approach
to writing.
He didn't come up
with it. Cassady did.
> Also
remember that Kerouac, aging and drunk, caused a lot of trouble in the
> mid 60's by
blasting off against anti-Vietnam war demonstrators.
Huh? You think nobody was blasting off against
demonstrators in the 60's?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:36:33 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Tracey L. Milton"
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs&Bukowski
In-Reply-To: <199506291614.MAA22819@a.success.net>;
from "James Oehler" at Jun
29, 95 12:08 (noon)
> that I cant
remember right now. So any Burroughs readers out there,
> so far I
have only read "Junky", which is an interesting book. By the
> way has
anybody read his sons (I know he died)
books i know he has one out
> called
> "Speed
in combination w/ something else.
How and when did
Billy Burroughs die??
Tracey
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:37:36 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott <kerouac@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Burroughs
Just wanted to
set the record straight--Burroughs is still alive and kicking.
Scott Gillaspie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:44:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Tracey L. Milton"
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950629123651.1561C-100000@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>;
from "Scott" at Jun 29,
95 12:37 (noon)
Was inquiring
about Burroughs son.
sorry for the
misunderstanding.
>
> Just wanted
to set the record straight--Burroughs is still alive and kicking.
>
> Scott
Gillaspie
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:18:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew J Schwartz
<schwrtz@MAGICNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs&Bukowski
>How and when
did Billy Burroughs die??
>
>Tracey
>
According to Ted
Morgan's brilliant biography of his dad, Literary Outlaw,
Billy died at
6:35am March 3 1981 of complications due to a liver
transplant. the Actual wording was, "acute
gastrointestinal hemorage
associated with
micronodular cirrhosis"
Andrew Schwartz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:03:43 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Win Mattingly
<GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:44:09 EDT from
<milton_t@APOLLO.HP.COM>
On Thu, 29 Jun
1995 13:44:09 EDT Tracey L. Milton said:
>Was inquiring
about Burroughs son.
>sorry for the
misunderstanding.
>>
>> Just
wanted to set the record straight--Burroughs is still alive and kicking.
>>
>> Scott
Gillaspie
>>
William Burroughs
Jr. died of Cirrhosis (?) after a liver transplant in the
late 70's-early
80's, if I am remembering correctly. I
recommend the excellent
Burroughs Sr.
Biography titled Literary Outlaw written by Ted Morgan. Great
reading,
excellent photographs. I know Billy B.'s
first two books, Speed and
Kentucky Ham are
in print (and in fact actually available in a single volume),
but does anyone
know if the third one (titled, at least according to the Ken-
tucky Ham liner
notes, Prikitti Junction, though I'm not sure about the spell
ing) is
available? Burroughs Jr. possessed a
magnificent talent (my opinion),
it's a shame his
excesses blew it out so early.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:56:35 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs&Bukowski
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
liver
failure...he got liver transplant in
1976 and continued drinking. i thin
k he died in 1981
at the age of 34 or 35.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 17:01:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Richard Beban
<RBEBAN@DELPHI.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
> JoAnn Ruvoli
wrote:
> Kerouac thought of writing as a performance,
like a jazz musician who
> has only one
chance to perform a night, Kerouac wrote (performed)
> straight
through. You can't change or revise a improv jazz solo, and
> Kerouac
believed the same about writing.
Au
contraire. It's a wonderful, romantic
myth that Kerouac's writing sprang
full-blown,
first-draft, like Athena from the forehead of Zeus, but the man,
like all great
writers, was a craftsperson who revised his work. Writing is
rewriting.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 18:17:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tony Trigilio
<atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Bukowski & the Beats
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95062911520612@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from "Win Mattingly" at
Jun 29, 95 11:05:19 am
On June 29 Win
Mattingly wrote:
> Also, what
about Bukowski? Again, not strictly a
beat but definitely some
con-
> nection. Does anybody know about any Bukowski lists?
I am curious how others square Bukowski
with the
Beats (or vice
versa). I'm thinking primarily of
Ginsberg.
Obviously
Bukowski & Ginsberg share markedly different
backgrounds--geographically,
economically, and politically.
And the two right
away took vastly different approaches toward
how to position
themselves in academic literary circles.
In
terms of the
poetry itself--and in terms of their shared
audiences--the
two are similar enough that I wonder why they
rarely overlap
(at least) when folks talk about contemporary
poetry.
Bukowski seemed to work so hard to
carve himself a
solitary
"outsider" position in literary circles that he left himself
no choice but to
distrust Beats for their popularity and assimilation
(as treacherous
as we all know assimilation can be).
Unfortunately, I
can't go to my books and look for Bukowski
references to
Beat writing, because I'm moving Saturday, and
all books are
packed away. I do remember, though, that
Neeli
Cherkovsky's
biography of Bukowski portrays him, at best, as
indifferent to
the Beats (again I'm thinking primarly of
Ginsberg). Even this indifference seemed a constructed
pose,
though, from what
I could gather in the rest of the (excellent)
biography, and
from Bukowski's poetry and fiction as a whole.
I'm curious about what others
think. The form and
content of
Bukowski's work shares Beat sensibilities to a certain
significant
extent, yet I've never seen the two camps meet
beyond
indifference.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony
Trigilio * "How do you know but ev'ry Bird
that
* cuts the airy way, / Is an immense world
* of delight, closed by your senses
five?"
atrigili@lynx.neu.edu * (William Blake)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:51:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Questad <questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
' Twas written:
>I just
discovered Vollman, myself!
I think I would
like to discover Vollman. Is he the same
William
Vollman who
recently wrote a feature in Spin magazine regarding the
Oklahoma bombing?
Jeff Questad
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 00:03:24 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Joyce Johnson
I came to Kerouac
when I was sixteen, which I guess is fairly normal.
That was 36 years
ago. My eldest son is 24, and starting
to straighten his
life out after a
few foolish episodes. Four or five years
ago he started to
take off for
weeks at a time --just bumming around.
Eventually, the light came
on. I said,
Have you been reading Kerouac?
He had, of course -- thought On
the Road was
wonderful and wanted to act it out.
Brought a lot of things back
to me. What I
really wanted to say, though, was: how many people out there
share my view
that Joyce Johnson could write the ass off the rest of them?
That, of that
whole crew of writers and poets (for whom I still feel an immense
kinship and
affection), she was the best of the lot?
But that, because she was
a woman, that
could not be recognised? the best of the lot?
But that, because
she was a woman,
that could not be recognised?
--
John Lynch
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 16:20:13 -0700
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From: Jeff Questad
<questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: My first time
I think this list
is going to be alot of fun. There are apparently alot
of young readers
maybe young writers here encountering Kerouac for the
first time and
perhaps finding the first literature that speaks to
them. Seems to be the most common theme, the
sweetness, honesty and
appeal of
Kerouac's novels for readers who have never been able to
relate to more
"academic" writing. Probably almost all of us who love
Kerouac feel
something more akin to love and fellowship than the kind
of respect you'll
later feel for Joyce, Shakespeare or Hemingway, say.
And I'd bet also
most of us read him young and may or may not have
continued to read
his books later. This is not to say he's
a kid's
writer. There is much that is serious and important
in Kerouac.
I think On The
Road may have been the first "real" novel I found on my
own, read on my
own, loved on my own, and would stand up for.
I was
probably 15, and
I think I'd read nothing but Sherlock Holmes stories
to that point.
The rest of that summer in Bandera, Texas I sought out
other Jack books
and read Dharma Bums, Dr Sax, Desolation Angels, and
Maggie Cassidy at
least. Maybe others.
Over the years my
literary opinion of Kerouac has wavered, but reading
some of these
posts reminds me of the first time books spoke to me.
Jeff Questad
Austin 6/29/95
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 18:27:33 -0700
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From: Lisa Bonelli
<BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac Thesis
From: SMTP%"Postmaster@sonoma.edu" 28-JUN-1995
12:50:52.67
To: BONELLI
CC:
Subj: Undeliverable Mail
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:50:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Postmaster@sonoma.edu
Subject: Undeliverable Mail
To: <BONELLI>
Bad address --
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Error -- Nameserver
error: Unknown host
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: BONELLI@sonoma.edu
To:
beat-l@cunyvm.edu
Message-Id:
<950628125049.2060084b@sonoma.edu>
Subject: Kerouac Thesis For Real
From: SMTP%"Postmaster@sonoma.edu"
28-JUN-1995 12:47:28.60
To:
BONELLI
CC:
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Date:
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From:
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Subject:
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 12:47:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: BONELLI@sonoma.edu
To:
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.edu
Message-Id: <950628124725.20601802@sonoma.edu>
Subject: Kerouac Thesis
I am really glad this list has started, as
I am in the planning stages
of my thesis, which will be on Jack
Kerouac. I spent several months
researching his work, and him (which are
hard to seperate, quite often) and
became hooked. I, too, am hooked into a
spiritual connection with the author
which is hard for me to comprehend: he is
often sexist and mostly a complete
ass to women, both in life and his writing.
Yet, I am haunted and intrigued
by the relationship he had with Neal
Cassady, allen, J. Clellon Holmes,
Burroughs and others. Also, the way he
turned against his peers/fellow
"Beats" towards the end of his
alcohol-induced delusionial life. I have
found just about all there is on Kerouac,
so I hope to find out more from
this list. . .keep me posted, and also
would like to hear from anyone
who has also done grad. work on Kerouac, or
who sees or is exploring the
connections between Whitman's "Leaves
of Grass" and Kerouac's "On the Road."
Dig it,
Lisa B
email me at: bonelli@sonoma.edu
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 01:07:01 -0400
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From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
BEAT-L)
' Twas written:
>I just
discovered Vollman, myself!
Then this was
written:
>I think I
would like to discover Vollman. Is he
the same William
>Vollman who
recently wrote a feature in Spin magazine regarding >the
Oklahoma bombing?
Yep. He's a
contributing editor to Spin. He also wrote a piece on
voodoo (I think)
for the Spin Anniversary issue in April.
I missed that one
--boo hoo.
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 01:57:20 -0400
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From: Damion Doohan
<Damion001@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg quotation
>From the
interview with Allen Ginsberg in Magic Blend, July 1995:
Ginsberg:
"There was this explosion into a spoken poetry, which Kerouac
excelled at, and
that ignited interest in Bob Dylan, who said that Kerouac's
_Mexico City
Blues_ was the first American poetry book that really spoke to
him. I asked him why and he said, 'It's the only
book of poetry I ever read
that spoke in my
own language-- American rhythms and diction.'
This was a
conversation we
had at Kerouac's grave in Lowell, Massachusetts. So between
myself and
Kerouac and a few others who influenced Dylan, this caused the
whole explosion
of popular song."
Damion
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 01:57:21 -0400
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From: Damion Doohan
<Damion001@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ginsberg and NAMBLA
At the begining
of the recent Magical Blend interview by Tom McIntyre of
Allen Ginsberg it
says "The recent sale of his collected memorabilia to
Stanford
University became an explosive topic when the executive board of
that august
bastion of conservatism discovered his relationship with NAMBLA
(North American
Man Boy Love Association)." I knew
of Ginsberg's support of
NAMBLA but hadn't
heard that this was an "explosive" topic. What happened?
They bought the stuff anyway, right? So were there protests or something,
what form did the
explosion take?
Damion
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 06:38:08 -0400
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From: Harold Boss
<au405@FREENET.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac
In the 7/28-29
list someone downplayed Kerouac's jazz-inspired
writing by
asserting that he was a craftsperson who revised his
work. This sent me running upstairs to look over an
issue of
the "Paris
Review" which had an articleabout the time Kerouac
submitted OTR for
publication. Naturally, I can't find it
right
now. I see that issue 40 (Winter-Spring 1966) is
missing.
Perhaps it was
that one. Who knows, itt's probably in
the
attic. I'll search it out sometime.
Anyway, if memory
serves me, Kerouac typed ONT in one night
in a mind-altered
state (I forget the substance). No
puncuation, no
nothing. Just one continuous paragraph
on one
of those long
computer papers.
He gave it to
Carl Solomon who was at Random House ( a
relative gave him
the job out of pity). Carl, apparently,
freaked out and
tried to put it into some sort of
traditional
apparence - like paragraphs and puncuation.
There was some
kind of prolonged fight about OTR's
final form, but
editor Solomon (who by the way, has
a few interesting
books of his own) sort of won out.
Craftsperson he
was. But he also knew how to blow a
riff.
The above is from
memory. And of something I read 30
years ago. It could be entirely screwed-up, but I do
remember being
terribly impressed.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 09:33:48 -0400
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From: Madeleine Charney
<m_charney@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU>
Subject: Re: My first time
It is interesting
how many people remember reading OTR during the
summer. Makes
sense; it tends to be the more carefree season. This
season also found
me, at 17, with book in hand.
I was teaching at
a summer camp that year. Clad in green suede sneakers
(year, 1980) and
large men's shirts, I was at that experimental age.
Open to anything
new.
Although I wasn't
in the place (didn't have the courage?) ti take
off and live a
life like Kerouac's, I did relate to what I read
by simply
sleeping outdoors every chance I got. Beside the lake,
in the dark, I
often thought "There's got to be more out there."
And now as an
adult I have the opportunity to explore that
moreness.
Thanks to all on
the list for stimulating that memory in me.
-Madeleine
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:54:40 BST
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From: James Douglas Jack - Tartan Warrior!
<jjack@MPC-UK.COM>
Subject: Re: My first time - really that
transcendent ?
In-Reply-To: <95063009334863@foma.wsc.mass.edu>;
from "Madeleine Charney" at
Jun 30, 95 9:33 am
I'm just about to go camping around
France for 2 weeks.(Work dictates etc.)
And, as a
long-time fan of Ginsberg, Corso, and many other 'Beat-affiliated'
writers(Vonnegut,
Whitman, Thoreaux, Blake, and so forth) I've been sweetly
impressed by the
strength of devotion to Kerouac's 'On the Road' on this
list. So, my
question is : should I get this and read it as I'm travelling/
relaxing? Or
should I stick to my original plan of blasting 'The Brothers
Karamazov' at
last?
Peace and bubbles,
JJ
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 10:00:41 EDT
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From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: The Ju-Jitsu Monkey (a story)
Ju-Jitsu Monkey
...the evening star must be
drooping and shedding
her sparkler dims on the prarie,
which is just
before the coming of complete
night that blesses the
earth, darkens all rivers, cups
the peaks and folds
the final shore in, and nobody,
nobody knows what's
going to happen to anybody
besides the forlorn rags
of growing old...
Jack Kerouac
I fell asleep against the gas station
wall, a sign reading
"West"
on my lap. Time that seemed snap-your-fingers quick zoomed
by, and I was
being shaken awake. I woke out of whatever world I'd
drifted into, and
felt I was re-enetering that world where folks
aren't supposed
to sleep against gas station walls. As I hit
atmosphere, I was
already collecting together my bags, my guitar,
and my sign,
figuring without being told that it was once again
"move
along" time. I started getting to my feet, and then focussed
on who it was
that had given me the shake.
"Hey, Pal, these guys are wondering
if you want a ride?"
The man who'd woke me was sort of leaning
over me, and his
voice and eyes
were matched with a child's laughing quality. This
was no child,
though.
His hair was grey and thin, and he had a
stomach that only
decades of
alcohol can produce. He had on an old flannel plaid
shirt, and worn-out
khaki pants, unlaced hiking boots, and no
socks. Standing
over me, he was as big as a cloud, but, like a
Russki circus
bear, no threat. This mountain was not about to
charge into the
gallery and maul the wide-eyed children, but was
getting ready for
the act where he wears the enormous ruffly collar
and rides around
the ring on a unicycle.
In his childeyes, there was a softness
that told the world
that all's fine.
He was standing over me, with his elbows resting
on his knees,
laughing.
"These guys are riding all the way to
Calgary! They're
wondering if you
want a ride!"
There was a red Ford pick-up pulled up at
the curb, with two
young kids in the
cab, waving to me.
"If you're riding, come on!"
they yelled.
"I've been riding with these guys since
Montreal," continued
my escort,
"and you aren't gonna find a sweeter passage."
I tossed my gear into the truck. We jumped
into the back, and
I heard my
travelling partner laugh as he saw my expression.
"These guys are hauling forty
sleeping bags to Calgary. All
they want us to
do is keep 'em weighted down!"
He pointed to a cooler, and I pulled out a
couple of beers.
I tossed one to
his side of the box, which he caught with a little
celebration's
flourish. The truck pulled back out onto TransCanada
1, and, yee-hah!,
we were on our way west.
"Without a doubt, Pal-- this is the
sweetest passage ever
existed!"
screamed the bear. Everything he said he screamed, and
everything he
screamed was joyous and innocent. Words flew out with
exclamation marks
tied on like kite tails.
I silently sang a hymn to our barelling
along, following the
sun. I'd been
spending too many months and years strapped to the
east, and now saw
north and south travel as wasted time. Greed-in-
motion had taken
over the entire seaboard, and varied only in
temperature along
the coast. Take your Hamptons and your
Lauderdales,
Bloomingdales, Kitty Hawks, and gawk at the gimme-
gimme-gimme as they
line each town's Fifth Av, rubbing big
overcoated
shoulders at the newstand and saying "Bill-- I didn't
see you at church
last Sunday" and other such nosebody nonsense.
Anyway, I'd
finally managed to cut the ropes with one more trip
north, for to
have missed Toronto and its Elizabeth Campbell in the
summer would have
been the wrong mistake. With that city put to
rest, and Liz put
on hold ("Of course I'll be writing!" I tell her
as I walk down
the lonely morning driveway-- having for some reason
refused a ride to
the interstate), I was ready to pull away from
the east. Fare
thee well to the Hudson and the Chesapeeque, fare
thee well,
Tarrytown and Northport and St. Albans and the countless
other burgs where
I'd been stuck alongside the shoulder, under the
overspasses
waiting for the rain to piss and pass, behind huge
signs with their
inscriptions (Been here too damn long, Bob From
Annapolis, June,
1968) and other such nonsense written down to
relieve the
frustration of the time weary hitch hiker and also
enough to make
the next bum along the way read the words and wail
in desperation's
misery, for the only way to hitch hike is to plan
it slow-mo, and
the only way to hitch hike is to party solo.
And now we were loose from it all,
breaking out to where there
was enough air
and space to look around and breathe it all in.
Heading west, and
there's nothing like the feeling in the whole
world, nothing
that's ever made me feel as free and wheee! as lying
back in that red
truck's bed on my own bed of delivery duckdown
sleeping bags,
taking a good, cool slug of the bear's beer and
watching the sun
pass over my head and forward, calling me out to
the plains and
Mississippi valley and lakes and rivers that I've
only known as
lines on maps. It was hello to a new world, and new
people, and rodeo
my rodeo.
Finally heading west. I wanted to scatter the ashes of
whatever the hell
it was that I was finally able to shake alongside
TransCanada 1,
where it could drift and blow in the jetstreams of
balling deisels,
deciding west or east of its own. As for me, I'd
cashed-in. I
looked over to the bear, who sat, looking back to
where we'd been,
with a cheesburg grin. He must have read my mind,
holding up his
beer can and shouting, "Fuck you, East Coast!" and
laughing loud
enough to get the rest of the world that cared to
join along with
him on the refrain.
"Fuck You, East Coast!" I
screamed with the bear, and we were
joined on the
third repeat by the kids in the cab, all of us
laughing as we
balled our way to the horizon, the edge of the
world, and the
waiting sun.
The bear, despite this salute and his joy,
was a silent
traveller. He sat
in the day's passing sun, reading tattered
paperbacks,
scribbling pencil notes in the margins, and smiling to
himself. All the
while I watched him, though, I thought to myself
why in the name
of god does a man his age find himself travelling
alone. I also had
a million other questions developing along the
lines of where ya
going, who you gonna see, and other such... but
all the time not
realizing that the reason he was here, rolling
west, was the
same reason I was doing the same. Rolling west in
need of getting
from as much as getting to, we were on identical
missions. The
afternoon was upon us, and we were pulling into
Kirkland Lake.
The two brothers in the cab were weary with their
travelling,
having pushed straight through from Montreal without
a good sleep, and
so we found a lake and a campspot.
After I helped Tim and Jim set up their
tent, the bear and I
moved to the far
side of the clearing, so as not to disturb the
boys. I took my
guitar out of the case, and the bear pulled a
bottle of whiskey
out of his suitcase. I'd been entertaining myself
with the guitar
for twenty years, and so had learned a lot of
different styles
and types of songs. The bear seemed to enjoy all
of it, though,
and had enough of a musical sense to beat out
rythyms in the twigs
and branches-- anticipating an ending 'tag'
line or finishing
roll with each song.
At one point I started goofing with a
sophomoric twelve-bar
blues pattern,
and the bear stood up on his traveller's whiskey
legs, and started
dancing under a canopy of low pine branches. The
branches hung so
close to the ground, that he had to stoop and bend
his knees in
order to continue his jungle jitterbug. I finished the
pattern off, and
the bear whooped and performed a satorical
backwards flip out
from the trees and back into our edge of the
clearing. I
rattled my head, trying to make sure I'd taken the
whole scene in.
The bear was in one look an ancient bum of a man,
a drunken
fellahin, down down down on his luck. In flashes, though,
he became tender,
vigorous, and exciting.
He flipped his way back to the spot where
we'd set up our
"camp".
I stared at him.
"What was all that about?" I
asked.
"Welll my boyyyy," he said,
mimicking W.C. Fields, "That was
called the ancient
dance of the ju-jitsuu monkeyyyy. It was taught
to me by an
artful dowager from Escondido.... she had a glass
eye...."
The bear took up his bottle and glugged a
slug. We looked at
each other and
howled at the setting sun.
I built a small fire, and the bear and I
sat staring at the
tiny flames,
poking and prodding the twigs and sticks in hopes of
disturbing some
unspoken vision. I'd told him about my years in
Africa, and he
prodded the pondered flames.
"I tried Africa," he said, no
longer in his vaudeville voice.
"Went to Morocco and Algiers,
freighted-over to see the same
damned gang that
I'd been following around over here. It was like
"Hey man! We
are wailing in Tangiers!", and alackadaddy, I was on
my way on some
Yugoslavian rust bucket. Mysterious women, daggers
in the
teeth..."
"Dawn donkeys pulling rolls of
newsprint," I added.
The bear looked over to me.
"Yeah, there was that and I remember
the solo voices calling
out great Ramadan
prayers-- you could feel the dust settle as every
living thing
stopped in silence."
"And then," I added, "Like
a big slap in world's face, the
moment is
passed-- the solar eclipse shadow pulls away..."
"And the world's turned upside down."
"And the world's turned upside
down," I echoed.
I slammed off to sleep, and had dreams of
the great unrolling
roads I'd done.
TransCanada 1, the Nairobi-Mombasa Highway, the
Nairobi-Addis
Ababa scratch in the desert earth, the New Jersey
Pennsylvania Ohio
Indiana Illinois Wisconsin Minnesota patrolled
tollways, the
lonesome Sahara stretch that busses sad loads of
dusty men and
goats from El Eskandria west to Alamein, Matruh,
Rahman, and on to
unknown Libya, and the corkscrew down spiral
roadway to the
bottom of the volcano world of the Rift Valley
floor. Down each
road and dream, the bear is walking at my side.
In the dawn, I stretched and shook off the
dew and any desire
to sleep further.
The boys were up, and sat around their own fire
with the bear,
cooking fish. I walked out from under the pine
branches to where
they sat in the smoke.
"You were having a good laugh and
hoot last night," said one
of the kids.
"Hey yes," I said, "I hope
it didn't disturb you guys too
much."
"Nah-- we slept like death,"
responded Tim.
"What were up to?" asked Jim.
I looked at the bear.
"An ancient ritual," I said.
"Ah, yesss..." said W.C. Fields,
"the dance of the woebegone
ju-jitsuu monkeyyyy..."
I stood up and tried to copy his funny
pine needle soft-shoe,
but had to give
it up. If I were a dancer, I might been able to
stay with
Elizabeth Campbell.
"Hey, bear," I called over to
him, "why not show these guys
that crazy
dance?"
I looked over to where he'd been sitting,
but the bear was
gone.
The two Calgary kids were staring at me,
slowly chewing their
fish.
There had been no one.
The boys said nothing, looking down at
their farm boots like
children being
given instructions. They were stuck with a me -- a
harmless lunatic.
We loaded the gear back into the truck,
and took off from
Kirkland Lake. We
blasted through Timmons and Iroquois Falls and
Cochrane. We had
days and days to go before getting to Calgary--
in fact, when I
looked at a map I ached on seeing that our real
direction had
been pretty much north since I'd loaded into the
truck.
"Damn," I said softly, "I
gotta get west!"
I'd read On The Road in 1970, after Jack
had died. Ever since
that warm Nairobi
day, though, when I turned the last page as Sal
vanishes around
the city corner and the world says goodbye to
forlorn
Dean/Cody/Neal, and the children are sleeping and that
blanket which has
held so much road and so many people and so much
narrative is once
again shook out and cleaned for the next 'bo to
fill up and
trample across and sleep in... ever since that day I've
been waiting at
the world's shoulders and entrance ramps, sleeping
in ditches,
running, hiding from the midnight cruise lights of
protective
patrols, and waiting waiting waiting for that time when
for some unknown
reason his spirit would drift down from the
celeste, as would
one of St. Theresa's petals, and find me on that
road heading
north to head west.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:01:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: DAVIS ALAN
<davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To: <950629070026_104654329@aol.com>
Francis Ford
Coppola is currently auditioning for ON THE ROAD. Do you
all think he's
the right director? At any rate, he's
doing it. My guess
is, the movie
will reduce the book to a text instead of a bible. Al
On Thu, 29 Jun
1995, Gene Simakowicz wrote:
> Wow!
> I just
signed on the list a few days ago also. It's great to be here. As for
> the Kerouac
reading list, I agree, ON THE ROAD is probably the Bible. How
> about a
question to kick off some newsgroup discussion?
>
> Do you think
On The Road would make a good movie?
> If so, whom
would you cast in the two main roles?
>
> Gene
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:46:18 -0500
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From: Willard Goodwin
<wgoodwin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Thesis
Comments: To:
BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU
Lisa Bonelli
wrote:
> I am really glad this list has started, as
I am in the planning stages
> of my thesis, which will be on Jack
Kerouac. I spent several months
> researching his work, and him (which are
hard to seperate, quite
>often) ...I
have
> found just about all there is on Kerouac,
so I hope to find out more from
> this
list. . .keep me posted, and also would like to hear from anyone
> who has also done grad. work on Kerouac ...
Lisa: At the risk
of duplicating what you already know, I list here seven
works about
Kerouac (books and dissertations based on research in the
manuscript
collections at the Humanities Research Center, University of
Texas at Austin).
Of course, there's much more (including more recent
stuff), but since
these titles are ready to hand, I thought you might like
to see the list.
Best wishes, Will.
Cassady, Carolyn.
Heart Beat: My Life With Jack and Neal. Berkeley:
Creative Arts
Book Co., 1976.
Charters, Ann.
Kerouac: a Biography. London: Andre Deutsch, 1973.
Gifford, Barry,
and Lawrence Lee. Jack's Book: an Oral Biography of Jack
Kerouac. New
York: St. Martin's Press, 1978.
Hudson, Lee. Beat
Generation Poetics and the Oral Tradition of Literature.
Doctoral diss.,
University of Texas at Austin, 1973.
Hunt, Timothy
Arthur. Off the Novel: the Literary Maturation of Jack
Kerouac. Doctoral
diss., Cornell University, 1975.
McNally, Dennis
S. Desolate Angel, a Biography: Jack Kerouac, the Beat
Generation, and
America. New York: Random House, 1979.
Tytell, John.
Naked Angels: the Lives and Literature of the Beat
Generation. New
York: McGraw-Hill, 1976.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 23:33:49 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9506301457.C29692-0100000@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
(message from DAVIS ALAN on Fri,
30 Jun 1995 14:01:43 -0500)
From: DAVIS ALAN
<davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
> Francis Ford
Coppola is currently auditioning for ON THE ROAD. Do you all
> think he's
the right director?
Who would you
like? I can't think of anybody better
than Coppola.
I wonder how well
they can cast Dean Moriarty. That's
essential. I can't
think of any name
actor that can do it.
> My guess is,
the movie will reduce the book to a text instead of a bible.
I got news for
you, kid. It already is a text.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 13:32:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Thesis
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
don't forget
nicosia joyce johnson and carolyn cassady's off the road.
there's also a
book by a professor and the univ of lowell who befriended kerouac
in the late sixties - i forget his name. interesting book/look at e period
in k's life that
most gloss over because it's so depressing.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:01:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas DeRosa
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac movie
latest rumors
i've heard from levi asher (literary kicks, web page) is
that coppola is
directing it, not gus van sant. another rumor is that
dean will be
played by sean penn and sal will be brad pitt. all this is
rumor so you
didn't hear it from me. check out lit. kicks beat news for
more info than i
can remember.
i just subscribed
to this list yesterday and i must say i am impressed.
its so great to
find others who are into the beats. five years ago i
really had to
search for their books, now they're all over. should we
send the gap a
thank you note?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 20:07:03 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Morrow
<MORROW@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject: Previous Kerouac Movie?
About 5 years
ago, a local theatre was showing a film
about Kerouac. I
never did see it and can't remember
whether it was a
documentary or a dramatic portrayal of
his life. I also
can't remember the title.
Does anyone out
there remember the title of this movie
and, if you saw
it, what it was like?
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 21:56:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Aaron Hill <adhill@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac thesis
Howdy,
I don't know if this is your angle or
not, but I did some work on
Kerouac's family,
and their influence on him. I found that
his ties to his
mother (whom he
referred to as 'ma mere'), his sister, and catholicism were
at least as
profound as those to his friends.
Unfortunately for Jack,
these two groups
didn't seem to mingle too well and I imagine that this
strained his
relationship to both. Oh, don't forget
that his family was
French-Canadian
and that he didn't speak English until he was 4 or 5. I
read a biography
of Kerouac by a French-Canadian author (whose name I can't
remember right
now) which explored this aspect of his life in detail. If
you're
interested, I can look it up.
Aaron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 22:01:53 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Eric Trondson-Clinger
<tronson@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
>About 5 years
ago, a local theatre was showing a film
>about
Kerouac. I never did see it and can't remember
>whether it
was a documentary or a dramatic portrayal of
>his life. I
also can't remember the title.
>
>Does anyone
out there remember the title of this movie
>and, if you
saw it, what it was like?
There was a
documentary called just "Kerouac" I believe and Carolyn
Cassady's
"Heartbeat" was also made into a move in about 1976 with Nick
Nolte. Haven't
seen either of 'em tho...
Submit gloried prose-pics-poetry to the
beautiful mag-book-zine Holyboy Road
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Trondson-Clinger Holyboy Road Home
Page
tronson@primenet.com
http://www.primenet.com/~tronson/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Was it nice, Jack?" - "All
women are nice." Larry Smith and
Jack
Kerouac
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 00:54:41 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mike H. from Md."
<mikeh@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Re: My first time
In-Reply-To: <95063009334863@foma.wsc.mass.edu>
On Fri, 30 Jun
1995, Madeleine Charney wrote:
> It is
interesting how many people remember reading OTR during the
> summer.
Makes sense; it tends to be the more carefree season. This
> season also
found me, at 17, with book in hand.
>
> I was
teaching at a summer camp that year. Clad in green suede sneakers
> (year, 1980)
and large men's shirts, I was at that experimental age.
> Open to
anything new.
Damn!
At the age when I should have been reading Kerouac, I was
reading the
classics that everyone else was avoiding!
Now, years later.
I'm just starting
to catch up!
Thanks for all the comments. If I'd had some of this stimulating
conversation, I
would have gotten into Kerouac years ago!
Mike, Lurking in
Md.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 01:05:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas DeRosa
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
i have seen the
movie in question, "kerouac". in fact i just got it
yesterday. i
ordered it from mystic fire video, via e-mail from their
web page. it's a
pretty good movie, the best part being the scene from
the steve allen
show where jack read from visions of cody and the last
page of on the
road. i've heard him on tape but had never seen him on
film. it was
really something. try to find it at a rental place, mystic
fire charged me
thirty bucks. for me though, it was well worth it. god
i sound like a
commercial don't i? sorry.
as always,
das beatnik7
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 09:35:25 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
In-Reply-To:
<199507010805.BAA03010@ix5.ix.netcom.com>
_Visions of Cody_
It took me three
months, but I think it is Kerouac's finest work. I read
it only after
having read everything else of his, including _Pic_.
Michael Bertsch
Athena University
VOU, Inc.
http://www.iac.net/~billp/
Virtual Campus:
telnet brazos.iac.net 8888
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 11:59:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
We should change
this thread to "VoC - Kerouac's finest book". I too am a
steadfast VoC
partisan - THAT is the novel I'm always foisting on others -
especially them
who disliked OtR.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:18:25 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
At a conference
last weekend, I played with the nearly-fianl version of
Penguin's new
CD-ROM, the Jack Kerouac Romnibus. It's mind-blowing. It
contains an
annotated version of the Dharma Bums, clips of Kerouac reading
(including the
Steve Allen show mentioned here), clips of Charlie Parker
playing, a kind
of family tree of Kerouac and his links with all the Beat
writers, and
amazing reproductions of Kerouac's artwork from his estate that
I never knew even
existed. Final version is due out in early Fall, priced
around $40.00
(but of course I gotta go buy a CD-ROM first).
Nick W-W
>i have seen
the movie in question, "kerouac". in fact i just got it
>yesterday. i
ordered it from mystic fire video, via e-mail from their
>web page.
it's a pretty good movie, the best part being the scene from
>the steve
allen show where jack read from visions of cody and the last
>page of on
the road. i've heard him on tape but had never seen him on
>film. it was
really something. try to find it at a rental place, mystic
>fire charged
me thirty bucks. for me though, it was well worth it. god
>i sound like
a commercial don't i? sorry.
>as always,
>
>das beatnik7
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 23:54:24 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
In-Reply-To:
<199507032013.AA128292395@lulu.acns.nwu.edu> (message from Nick
Weir-Williams on Mon, 3 Jul 1995
15:18:25 -0500)
> From: Nick
Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
> At a
conference last weekend, I played with the nearly-final version of
> Penguin's
new CD-ROM, the Jack Kerouac Romnibus ... It contains an annotated
> version of
the Dharma Bums,
On paper?
> ... and
amazing reproductions of Kerouac's artwork from his estate that I
> never knew
even existed.
What? Well come on, man, don't keep us in
suspense. What is it like? Is it
just Dr Sax
cartoons? When did he do it?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:49:56 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: kerouac and snyder
hello all--
with regards to
books written by kerouac: how do the
participants on this
list feel about
_dharma bums_?
and on a more
practical and personal note, i am doing a paper on
gary snyder
(japhy in _d.b._) and his visionary mix of buddhism
and amerindian
lore (i.e. shamanism etc.) to forge a 'philosophy'
in which place is
very important (having 'roots') but not
dependent on
nationality. i'd welcome any input or
suggestions!
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 00:32:37 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
In-Reply-To: <950703154956.5296@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
(message from THE WORLD IS ITS
OWN MAGIC on Mon, 3 Jul 1995
15:49:56 -0500)
> From: THE
WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC <952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
> with regards
to books written by kerouac: how do the participants on this
> list feel
about _dharma bums_?
This was the
second Kerouac book I read (after OTR) and I was expecting
something
similar, which is probably why I didn't like it much. It had its
moments,
though. It is not nearly as exciting as
OTR, and over the years I've
never gone back
to reread it. But thinking about it now
it doesn't seem so
bad, and its
description of the west coast poetry scene was very interesting.
I'd like to go
back and check this one out again...
Ginsberg also is
down on this book, I think he thought it was too commercial
and that the
writing was not Jack's best. Perhaps
someone else can recall for
us exactly what
he said about it. But I for one have
always been a bit
mystified by
Ginsberg's estimations of Jack's books -- if I recall he was very
keen on Visions
of Cody, which I find long, boring and impenetrable -- and
this is coming
from someone with a healthy tolerance for Jack's notorious
self-indulgence.
VoC is not a
novel, it's more like a weird kind of reference book...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:57:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
In-Reply-To: <950703154956.5296@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Regarding
Snyder--
It would be best,
in my opinion, to approach Snyder through the Native
American sense of
place coupled with Basho's reverence for place.
You
can look to
Snyder books like _Turtle Island_ and his translations of
Japanese
Haiku. The bridge image is Japhy jumping
from boulder to
boulder dressed
only in a jock strap. You might recall
the Japanese
'fundoshi', the
sild deaper-like garment now worn by Sumo wrestlers, but
which has a long
and glorious tradition in the Samurai culture.
Michael Bertsch
On Mon, 3 Jul
1995, THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC wrote:
> hello all--
>
> with regards
to books written by kerouac: how do the
participants on this
> list feel
about _dharma bums_?
>
> and on a
more practical and personal note, i am doing a paper on
> gary snyder
(japhy in _d.b._) and his visionary mix of buddhism
> and
amerindian lore (i.e. shamanism etc.) to forge a 'philosophy'
> in which
place is very important (having 'roots') but not
> dependent on
nationality. i'd welcome any input or
suggestions!
>
> claudia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:59:15 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
Comments: To:
Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<9507032132.AA37502@rs580a.haifa.ibm.com>
Josheph Rodriguez
is right--VoC is not a novel, but he is also wrong: it
is more a poem
than a reference book.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 21:52:26 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder
i agree that
_dharma bums_ probably lacks the 'magic' (if that's the
right word) that
_on the road_ possesses. from a
zen/buddhist
perspective, i
think, it illustrates the tension between
studying zen and
living zen and it raises the question to which
extent the dharma
bums actually did understand the dharma
(clearly, there's
more to zen than yabyums)-- but that's the
old scholar vs.
practitioner debate that the folks on buddha-l
have recently
fought (yet again).
what interests me
in synder is his encompassing approach to myth
(i.e. the images
he draws out of shamanic rituals and buddhist
philosophy). place figures very importantly in his poetry
and
essays, but only
as sort of a 'triggering town' (to borrow
richard hugo's
phrase). and then there is, of course,
the
place of the
mind--the back country--to which one must go and
return from to
effect change in one's self and one's society.
i wonder if
snyder's, at times, mythic/mystic sense of
community,
interconnectedness, transcendental awareness
speaks to the
readers on this list. if yes, how? if no,
why not?
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 11:26:22 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Previous Kerouac Movie?
> At a
conference last weekend, I played with the nearly-fianl version of
> Penguin's
new CD-ROM, the Jack Kerouac Romnibus. It's mind-blowing. It
> contains an
annotated version of the Dharma Bums, clips of Kerouac reading
> (including
the Steve Allen show mentioned here), clips of Charlie Parker
> playing, a
kind of family tree of Kerouac and his links with all the Beat
> writers, and
amazing reproductions of Kerouac's artwork from his estate that
> I never knew
even existed. Final version is due out in early Fall, priced
> around
$40.00 (but of course I gotta go buy a CD-ROM first).
>
Where will I be
able to get a copy?
--
John Lynch
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 07:31:06 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Peter Scott
<scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>
Subject: A Jack Kerouac ROMnibus
In-Reply-To: <35295@ldta.demon.co.uk>
For full details
of this, check:
http://www.penguin.com/usa/electronic/titles/kerouac/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 23:51:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire 362 7134 <mmaguire@OSM.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac and Snyder
Joseph Rodrigue
wrote re _Dharma Bums_:
> Ginsberg
also is down on this book, I think he thought it was too commercial
> and that the
writing was not Jack's best. Perhaps
someone else can recall for
> us exactly
what he said about it.
I enjoyed _Dharma
Bums_ very much and appreciated it even more once I had
read the Ginsberg
biography by Barry Miles, in which many of the _Dharma
Bums_ events are
retold using the characters' real names.
Ginsberg, after
reading an advance copy of D.B., wrote the following to
Jack:
"The whole
thing's a great piece of religion testament book, strange thing
to be published.
. . . You settling down in simpler prose, or just tired
like you said?
Montgomery is great in there, and Gary is fine too. I
don't dig myself
(too inconsistent mentally)(in the arguments). It is a
big teaching book
which is rare and spooky."
Barry Miles goes
on to say that, although Ginsberg "didn't regard the book
as up to Kerouac's
usual standard, this didn't stop him from promoting it
for all he was
worth".
_____________________________________________________________________
Mary Maguire
mmaguire@osm.utoronto.ca Toronto, Canada
"... a hum
came suddenly into his head, which seemed to him
a Good Hum, such
as is Hummed Hopefully to Others."
_____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 21:52:02 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: kerouac and snyder and pigeonholes
Claudia writes:
>i wonder if
snyder's, at times, mythic/mystic sense of
>community,
interconnectedness, transcendental awareness
>speaks to
readers on this list.
claudia
I'm curious also. Having heard him in San Francisco
before we both
went to Japan (for different reasons),
and
then again at an
ecology conference in Kansas in the seventies,
and as a
distinguished voice from the past giving a reading
in the eighties,
I am aware that he and his thought and writing
have changed over
the years - as they have changed me.
I think he has managed to break out of the
pigeonhole that
controls and
strangles the "beats" = their return to popularity
is in many ways,
I think, a way of keeping them and the spirit
they represented
at the time under control. True
followers of
the beats would I
feel follow their spirit, and not simply
worship them as
if from a faraway time.
Tom Bell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 10:18:10 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: ....
As a product of
"institutionalized education" I have always done what was
expected of
me. I regurgitated grammar and wrote
what my
instructor wanted
to hear; in a form that he/she approved
of, with proper
punctuation, of course...etc, I'm sure you have the idea.
Kerouac goes
against all that brainwashing and blind obedience. He has
given me one of
the greatest gifts I've ever gotten from an author...the
courage to go
against what others want to hear and to listen to my instincts,
at least when it
comes to my personal writing. The stuff
I churn out on paper
I don't reveal to
anyone...but to feel the freedom and to let go of the
control has been
the best thing I have ever done for me.
Thanks Jack.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 11:48:16 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Re: ....
Regarding Kristen
VanRiper's observations on the liberating effect reading
Kerouac has had
on her prose style, I think we can carry things too far
sometimes. Let's
not forget that when Kerouac began his experiments with
spontaneous
prose, he had already written a million words and mastered the
more traditional
styles of prose composition. He wasn't
jettisoning what
had gone before,
he used it as the point of departure for his forays into
new modes of
expression. This issue reminds me of the message we had last
week wherein a
list participant asked whether we though he should spend
his summer
reading the classics or reading Kerouac. My answer, like I
think Jack's
would be, is "read the classics if you haven't read them."
Kerouac certainly
did. He was conversant in the works of all the great
masters of
literature, even if he didn't emulate them in his own work.
Kerouac would
frequently hide out in one place or another with armloads
of what is
considered "great literature" not because he wanted to put
his mind in some
jail, but because as an artist he needed to know what
had come before.
Much has been made of the jazz nexus in Kerouac's work,
and he clearly
was trying to recreate the natural rhythms and expressions
found in the
music of Charlie Parker and others. But don't forget that the
great jazzmen
were (and still are) the consummate masters of their
instruments.
Miles Davis could soar into rapturous flights of inspiration
only because he
had honed his skills to the point where intention and
expression were
one mind-body event. So, if you don't know how to punc-
tuate a sentence,
don't expect to write like Kerouac. If you haven't
read Celine,
Blake, Milton and Shakespeare, don't expect to achieve
Jack's
depth. If you're not the master of your
craft, don't be sur-
prised if your
prose is pedestrian. Jack's way is not the lazy,
undisciplined way
- that was the insult his critics threw at him.
Recognize the
rigor behind the rapture.
Just my thoughts. Not intended as a flame of anyone's POV. Thanks
for reading!
Mark Gordon
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 14:57:39 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Are You On Our Mailing List?
Our mail-order
catalogue is filled with the best from Beat writers: Kerouac -
Ginsberg -
Burroughs - Corso - Whalen - McClure, many others. Nice used
copies, scarce
first editions, recordings, videos, posters, T-shirts, etc.
Thousands of Beat
items in stock. Lots of Bukowski too. If you'd like to be
placed on our
mailing list, please send your snail-mail address. It's free.
Satisfaction
guaranteed. Free Search Service too.
Cisco Harland
Water Row Books
PO Box 438
Sudbury MA 01776
Tel 508-485-8515
Fax 508-229-0885
e-mail
waterrow@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 19:35:27 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tom Peyer <TPeyer@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
Tom Peyer
11005 SW 88th
Street #C-107
Miami FL 3376
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:41:16 +1000
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Brian Lynch
<Brian_Lynch@MUWAYF.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: summary
Friends of
Beat-L,
I'm going to post this directly to the
list, since my "replies" to other
postings don't
seem to have made it. The volume of
postings is getting hard
to keep up with,
so if you're only scanning to find "new" contributions you'll
want to quickly
delete this and move on. What I wanted
to contribute was a
partial summary
of postings to date.
There has been an explosion of activity on
this list in the past two
weeks, after a
relatively small amount of activity when it first started. The
first postings
that I remember had to do with the rumored film of OTR, rumored
to be directed by
Coppola, who was rumored to be casting Sean Penn as Moriarty
and Brad Pitt as
Sal (or it may have been the other way around).
Discussion
about the casting
proposed other Hollywood stars (after noting that K.
himself, back
then, proposed Brando as Moriarty and Monty Clift as Sal) for
the lead
roles--Gary Oldman (Moriarty), Johnny Depp (Sal), etc. A friend of
mine who has
written a wonderful novel which conjures up some images of Neil
Cassady exploded
over the casting and said the people who should be playing
those parts are
in the coffee shops and road hangouts, not in Hollywood
agents' offices.
Another recent topic of interest seems to
be "that movie" about Kerouac.
The one I
remember was called "What Ever Happened to Jack Kerouac?"--an
excellent video
documentary that included the classic film clip of Jack
reading from OTR
while Steve Allen improvised jazz on his piano.
The topic of K's writing habits--was OTR
produced in one (benzedrine
tended to be a
stimulant of choice at the time) mind-altered session, or was
it the product of
careful redrafting? I've primarily heard
the written in one
session
version--although it was probably not done on "computer paper rolls"
(as one friend
suggested), since pc's weren't on the scene at that point. I
have read that he
had some sort of continuous roll of paper that it was
produced on,
though (or maybe I "heard" that--the ongoing oral history of the
Beats). The jazz improvisation, stream of
consciousness was definitely an
important part of
his writing. As a related
thread--Kerouac the poet vs.
Kerouac the
novelist: we've been reminded of Mexico City Blues as an important
part of his work
(and one that the person who had arrived at reading Kerouac
after being
primarily interested in poetry should check out).
Another interesting thread has been the
Zen connection to the Beats
(critical appraisal's
of Dharma Bums; Gary Snyder's work), and through it some
important
observations and challenges concerning the way we perceive "the
Beats"--as a
historical period or a way of being/frame of mind and spirit that
continues (maybe
both). A related interlinear has been
the occasional
surfacing of
"critical theory" discourse on the importance of Beat literature
in relation to
the "classics"--which aspects of the Beat voice speak to whom
and why.
The "my first time" (reading OTR)
thread has produced some remarkably
poignant
vignettes--I'd like to try to put them together and make the
collection
available to the list.
Finally, one of the things that I value most
about the discussion on this
list has been the
developing sense of the people who are
contributing--Kristen,
Claudia, "jrodriguez" (identified from the email
address), and
Mark Gordon (who posted some of the earlier messages that got
the list going
and has contributed some valuable insights from a writer's
perspective). Thanks to all of you for enriching the List.
Keep that level of thought and feeling!
Brian
Melbourne,
Australia (via Denver, Berkeley, and LA)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 21:49:24 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
i think _db_ was
one of those books that had to written (ala j. buffett's
line, "if i
can only get it on paper, i can make sense of it all).
but then, all
books *have* to written; there needs to be some kind
of urgency. and i think it reads best as an insight on
how kerouac
struggled with
his understanding of zen and its essence.
in that respect
it reminds me of
_zen and the art of motorcyle maintenance_.
as to ginsberg's
promotion of the book in spite of his reservations
about the
relative literary merits . . . ginsberg
is a top notch
marketing expert
. . . i think about his efforts with
Naropa Institute.
that was/is sheer
genius.
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 22:09:05 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
>i think _db_
was one of those books that had to written (ala j. buffett's
>line,
"if i can only get it on paper, i can make sense of it all).
>but then, all
books *have* to written; there needs to be some kind
>of
urgency. and i think it reads best as an
insight on how kerouac
>struggled
with his understanding of zen and its essence.
in that respect
>it reminds me
of _zen and the art of motorcyle maintenance_.
>
>as to
ginsberg's promotion of the book in spite of his reservations
>about the
relative literary merits . . . ginsberg
is a top notch
>marketing
expert . . . i think about his efforts
with Naropa Institute.
>that was/is
sheer genius.
>
>claudia
I was just
reading in Tom Clark's biography of kerouac that he complained
that the editor
(malcolm Cowly, I think) edited out all the catholic parts.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 02:08:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Tom Peyer <TPeyer@AOL.COM>
Subject: Crank Beat-L mail; do not open if you'll
be charged.
Sorry to dump all
of this extra mail on you all...
First, there was
the letter composed only of my name and street address,
which I intended
to send only to the people who solicited the beat literature
catalog...
And now this
pitiful follow-up, which asks only that you please don't show up
on my doorstep.
Your pal,
Tom Peyer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 06:36:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
timothy--
i haven't read
clark's bio of kerouac (yet). what did
kerouac say
about the
catholic parts being edited out of _db_ by cowley? what sort
of things had
kerouac included? it seems to me that
catholic myth/ritual
etc. would have
given the book a broader range or greater depth
(in the joe
campbell sense of comparative mythologies).
most
interesting. hm. .
. .
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 09:33:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: zen
Seeing postings
about Kerouac and Zen made me realize a sense that I have
gotten from the
little I have read by him. In _Visions
of Gerard_,
Jack wrote about
his Catholic upbringing and his sainted brother.
His exaggerated
glorification of Christian ways and Christian people shows
how this way of
life, this Catholicism, ultimately absorbs the present and
focuses only on
that which may or may not happen in the future.
I think it
was his first
realization of the "denial of life" and the obsession with an
"afterlife"
that people get sucked into...it's what probably gave him the
urge to go on the
road...not wanting to be stuck worrying about what would
happen when he
died...wanting to be alive.
Regarding the
emoting I did yesterday, :), I just want to elaborate...
Jazz is a
feeling, true, but there are progressions that one must
learn. Not all feelings make sense or are expressed
in a way that others
might understand
unless they are clarified. A truly great
jazz artist is
one that develops
these skills over time...and I do believe that
improvisation is
a developed art form. I only wrote that
blurb because I
have always had a
hard time transferring emotion to my fingers (in music
and writing) and
since I've been reading Kerouac, and other authors that
I have neglected
for some time, I've been able to express myself. I was
merely basking in
the freedom I have found. :) Take it easy.
Kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 09:37:43 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Some thoughts on Kerouac's
"method"
Hi. I'm coming
out of lurk-only mode to comment on a couple of recent posts
I think may
indicate a lack of understanding of Jack and his grounding in
classic
literature and compositional styles. THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS A FLAME
OF ANYONE. I'd
rather disconnect my internet access than get into a war of
words. I just think that we fans of Kerouac can very
often fall into the trap
of unknowingly
siding with those who criticized him so viciously during his
lifetime. The two posts I refer to are Kristen's recent
comment on how reading
Jack has
liberated her own prose style from the prison of conventional grammar
and punctuation,
and an anonymous post wherein the writer asked whether we
thought he should
spend his summer reading the classics or not. I think those of
us who love
Jack's work should remember that he was solidly grounded in both
the canon of
classic literature and conventional prose composition. Let's not
forget that he
had already written a million words by the time he began experime
nting with his
spontaneous method. Rather than simply jettisoning what had gone
before, Kerouac
used it as a point of departure for his forays into new modes
of expression.
When , in Kerouac's name, we reject out of hand the conventions
ofEnglish composition, we run the risk of
making the case for Jack's critics
who
accused him of
being lazy and undisciplined. Jack had already mastered standard
composition when
he wrote OTR. If you haven't mastered it, don't expect to
emulate him. A
useful parallel for this is jazz, the source of so much of
Jack's
inspiration. Charlie Parker, the father
of bop, was a consummate
musician. Before he could soar into flights of
rapturous ecstacy, he had to
spend years
mastering the rudiments of his instrument and his art. If you were
to ask Charlie
Parker to play a Bach fugue, he could do it, though perhaps he'd
prefer not to.
Whether it's Jack or Bird, take care to see and hear the rigor
behind the
rapture. In the same vein, let's remember that Jack was intimately
familiar with the
grat classics of literature. He had read
everything from S
Shakespeare to
Milton to Celine to Hemingway. Certainly he didn't like it all,
and he clearly
didn't emulate it all, but he knew it, and that knowledge gave
a depth to his
own work that resonates throughout the Duluoz Legend. In my
own opinion, if
you are sitting down to read Kerouac but haven't read Wolfe,
Faulkner or
Celine, read them first. Jack did. Again, the charge of his critics
was that his work
stood alone, outside the mainstream of American letters, and
that this was
chiefly becase the author himself didn't display a familiarity
with the past. Those
critics were wrong about Jack. Let's not make them right
about us. Thanks for reading. Sorry for the length. Peace to all.
Mark Gordon
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 08:46:11 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Win Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Jul 1995 21:49:24 -0500
from
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Dharma Bums was
the first book that really "hooked" me on Kerouac. The
magic of the hitchhiker
and his rucksack, the fabulous opening sequence with
the midnight
ghost and the old bum who prayed to Saint Theresa of the Flowers,
and the
descriptions of mountain climbing and S.F. poetry renaissance (Howl be-
comes Wail, and
of course it is K. who takes up the collection for bottles of
wine), were
enough to prompt me at the age of fifteen to get an old duffle bag
and leave what
really was (through my now adult eyes) an intolerable home situ-
ation. He taught me to hang out my thumb and trust
my instincts, even gave me
a spirituality
(zen) to combat the influence of, ironically, a strict catholic
upbringing. For these I'll always be grateful to Dharma
Bums. Still, now that
I'm older and
have reread most of Kerouac's work several times, I believe
On the Road has
far more literary merit. I still enjoy
Dharma Bums (and find
something more to
like about it every time I read it), but the rhythm and ener-
gy of On the Road
are unlike book written before or since, stylistically it is
unique in
American literature. In On the Road
Kerouac pinned down what it is
to be young and
American (and male?). Distance becomes a
metaphor for possi-
bility (check out
Tom Waits' medley Ballad of Neal and Jack/California Here I
Come for a feel
for what I mean). Regarding Dharma Bums,
I read a quote from
Kerouac somewhere
(Jack's Book?) where he said D.B. was written to allow him to
keep the cupboard
full of tins of meat for the cat and jugs of wine, or some-
thing to that
effect. While I'm not that cynical (and
K. may have said this
later in his life
when he was dour about just about everything), I do think
that D.B. is less
ground-breaking literature than a good story.
Hell, most
writers are lucky
if they can pull even that off.
I'd like to hear some discussion of The
Subterraneans. In my opinion that
book, for all the
sexist and racist implications academics will find in it,
reads more like
poetry than any other novel K. wrote and represents his spon-
taneaous prose
concepts taken as far as he ever took them.
Win Mattingly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:13:07 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Double Posting
I think I've
posted a couple of long messages to the list in the last
couple of days,
but I can't be sure because they're not coming to me.
Sorry if I've
chewed up anybody's bandwidth. Could
someone email me
and let me know
whether these messages are getting to all of the other
list recipients
or not? Thanks.
Mark
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:37:18 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: The Desolation Angels
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of THU 06 JUL 1995
08:46:11 EDT
I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained
material
originally hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript. I
would love to see
a release of _that_ manuscript... when TS Eliot's
Wasteland
manuscript was published, I was really drawn in by the notes,
comments, and
corrections supplied by Pound, Eliot, and others.
Imagine marketing
the teletype manuscript as just that, a roll of paper
(instead of a
bound book).
Does anyone know
whether the roll still exists? If so, where is it
housed?
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 08:48:58 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Robert Johnson
<johnsorl@COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Double Posting
Comments: To:
"Mark S. Gordon" <ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
In-Reply-To:
<199507061413.AA18291@osfn.rhilinet.gov>
Yes, your messages have appeared. Some
list groups do not post
messages back to the sender. Just cc
your postings back to yourself
then you can be sure of their arrival
to the list at large.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 18:02:56 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: OTR teletype roll
In-Reply-To: <06JUL95.11471647.0015.MUSIC@NMU.EDU>
(JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU)
> From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
> I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained material
> originally
hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript ... Does anyone
> know whether
the roll still exists? If so, where is
it housed?
I read a passage
from the roll once ... it was quite different from OTR as
published. I can't believe no one has tried to squeeze
money out of
publishing the
original roll. It would be fascinating
reading.
As for the person
who was talking the other day about Kerouac never revising
-- get in touch
with me. I've got a bridge for you.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:05:17 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
My understanding
is that Kerouac typed OTR on narrow rolls of Japanese
wallpaper, double
length, which he then taped together to form one
continuous
surface. I think that comes from Nicosia's book, or perhaps
Tytell's. I seem
to remember also that the rolls were lost or destroyed
when turned in to
the publisher for transcription and editing. Then again,
I could be
wrong. Thanks for letting me know about
the double posting.
I think I've got
the hang of the routine now.
--
Mark S. Gordon
"He not busy
being born is busy dying." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:32:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Subterraneans
To my shame, I
only just read 'The Subterraneans'. It is different, and, I
agree, as lyrical
and as close to a love story as I think he ever wrote. I
collect old
Kerouac paperbacks for the covers as much as anything else (does
anyone else do
this, incidentally - you can find some wonderful things in
second-hand
bookstores) and The Subterranenans edition I read, I was too
ashamed to read
on the Chicago 'L' going to work - clearly being sold in the
70's with a cover
both sexist and racist. But the book is a love affair,
really, told in
one breath.
Re Ginsberg: he
may have claimed not to have liked -DB- but he was happy to
read it on audio
(released in the last few years) and take the money...
> I'd like to hear some discussion of The
Subterraneans. In my opinion that
>book, for all
the sexist and racist implications academics will find in it,
>reads more
like poetry than any other novel K. wrote and represents his spon-
>taneaous
prose concepts taken as far as he ever took them.
>
Win Mattingly
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:59:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
rumor has it
that:
The OTR teletype
roll is presently on deposit at the New York Public Library.
Previous to its
move there recently, it sat
in the safe at
lit agent Sterling Lord's office.
Jeffrey Weinberg
Water Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 19:57:51 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: subterraneans
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95070609445880@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
(message from Win
Mattingly on Thu, 6 Jul 1995
08:46:11 EDT)
> From: Win
Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
> I'd like to
hear some discussion of The Subterraneans.
In my opinion that
> book, for
all the sexist and racist implications academics will find in it,
Please. What's sexist and racist about it? Try getting out of the dodo PC
mindset and use
your brain for a change.
This has to be one
of the most self-indulgent books I've ever read. No one
picked up on
that? Or do you just fawn over
everything you read?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 12:21:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Matthew C. Curcio"
<curcio@BIOC02.UTHSCSA.EDU>
Subject: folklore
Hello
I too have just
joined on board with you beats.
I also liked
Kirsten interpretaion of _Visions of Gerard_.
Not having a
sibling that passed away, I thought the angelic nature of
Jacks younger
brother was due to the inocence and beauty of youth.
IMHO I thought
this elevation to sainthood was due the lackof outside
forces that
played so strongly on Jack's life that did not play on the
child of
Gerard. For example, the strict catholic
school upbringing that
Jack had which
forced conformity of language, societal rules etc on Jack.
seemingly
corrupted as the
outside forces of
society and post WWII conformity laid down its
oppressive
blanket on Jack.
Aother point that
seems to dovetail with the sainthood of characters was
something also
from the listserv.
Anyway, if memory
serves me, Kerouac typed ONT in one night
in a mind-altered
state (I forget the substance). No
puncuation, no
nothing. Just one continuous paragraph
on one
of those long
computer papers.
He gave it to
Carl Solomon who was at Random House ( a
relative gave him
the job out of pity). Carl, apparently,
freaked out and
tried to put it into some sort of
traditional
apparence - like paragraphs and puncuation.
There was some
kind of prolonged fight about OTR's
final form, but
editor Solomon (who by the way, has
a few interesting
books of his own) sort of won out.
The Folklore that
I have seen on the writing of OTR is that
Jack wrote the
book on newswire paper. (You know that
big rolls that
were used for the
old AP machines. The 'Folklore' says
that he wrote it
in 3 weeks.
Writing for days at a time while on speed and then crashing
for as long. The book may not have contained all the
proper punctuation
but it also was
written without chapter format. Jack had
left all the
names that mattered
to him in the first draft,(ie the some of the real
names) and the
rest he foughtfor as little editing as possible.
But then again
these are only second hand accounts I have read.
Also, I have an other book on Zen that I would like
to suggest that is IMHO
better than _Zen
and the Art ..._ It is _Zen Flesh, Zen
Bones_ edited
and compiled by
Persal(?) P??? something. These are
small stories and
meditations that
are really great.
Enjoy,
Matthew
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:33:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Frank Beacham (via RadioMail)"
<beacham@RADIOMAIL.NET>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
FYI: Kerouac's
original teletype roll manuscript for OTR is now on display
at the New York
Public Library in New York City.
Frank Beacham
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:52:54 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
>timothy--
>
>i haven't
read clark's bio of kerouac (yet). what
did kerouac say
>about the
catholic parts being edited out of _db_ by cowley? what sort
>of things had
kerouac included? it seems to me that
catholic myth/ritual
>etc. would
have given the book a broader range or greater depth
>(in the joe
campbell sense of comparative mythologies).
most
>interesting. hm. .
. .
>
>claudia
I don't
know. It was a one line sort of
thing. It said that kerouac
complained Cowley
took all the catholicism out (in a qutoe that I cannot
remember
verbatim) and also that he would never write another potboiler
again (also a
quote). Each quote was referenced, but
that was all there
was on the
subject.
I agree with your
point of view that it would have made the book richer. I
think we can look
at Tristessa and Visions of Gerard to get an idea of what
it might have
been like if these parts hadn't been edited out.
Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:53:52 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bruce Greeley
<v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: OTR teletype roll
Comments: To:
jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
I just joined
this list....
In a brief news
segment anniversary on the New York Public Library
recently on t.v.
, they mentioned (and showed) this sacred On the Road
original teletype
roll housed in the archives there!!
someone check it
out for me!
- Greeley not
Creeley
----------
From: Joseph
Rodrigue <jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: OTR
teletype roll
Date: Thursday,
July 06, 1995 6:02PM
> From:
"Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
> I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained material
> originally
hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript ... Does anyone
> know whether
the roll still exists? If so, where is
it housed?
I read a passage
from the roll once ... it was quite different from OTR as
published. I can't believe no one has tried to squeeze
money out of
publishing the
original roll. It would be fascinating
reading.
As for the person
who was talking the other day about Kerouac never revising
-- get in touch
with me. I've got a bridge for you.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 15:19:22 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: mARK hEMENWAY
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Re:
OTR teletype roll
The OTR scroll is
in the care and keeping of the Berg Collection of the
New York Public
Library. Yes, it was on display during the same period as
the Kerouac
Conference at NYU at the beginning of June. Incidentally, the
NYPL will be the repository of the Kerouac
archives as they are
cataloged, etc.
and already contains a bunch of stuff.
Mark Hemenway
mhemenway@s1.drc.com
Co-Editor
"Dharma beat" the magazine of all things Kerouac, and
Chairman of
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
Join us in
Lowell, MA, 4-9 October for the Eighth Annual Kerouac Festival
"Everyone
comes home in October."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 12:51:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Frank Beacham (via
RadioMail)" <beacham@RADIOMAIL.NET>
Subject: OTR Roll Still on Display
The Kerouac
scroll of OTR is still on display (at least it was last week)
on the third
floor at the NY Public Library.
According to info at the
exhibit it will
soon be copied using some high quality duplication process
due to its
deteriorating condition.
There was also a
mention among panelists (on a publishing panel) at the
recent Kerouac
conference at NYU of the possibility that a fascimile OTR
scroll that's an
exact replica of the original might be published in the
near future. From what was said such a publishing project
is under active
consideration but
not certain by any means.
Frank Beacham
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 15:57:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Stedman, Jim"
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: OTR Roll Still on Display
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of THU 06 JUL 1995
01:51:23 EDT
Jack told Steve
Allen that the manuscript was typed on a teletype roll,
and that it took
three weeks to write. From memory, I think the exchange
goes something
like this:
Steve: Three
weeks??? How long were you on the road?
Jack: Six years
Steve: I was once
on the road for three weeks and it took six years to
write about it.
Jim Stedman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 16:05:37 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Racist/sexist projection in The
Subterraneans
I think the
debate over the allegedly sexist or racist nature of The
Subterraneans is
misguided and exemplary of the mindset which condemns
The Adventures of
Huckleberry Finn for its use of the "N" word.
Let us admit that
Kerouac was a product of his times and his background as
first generation
white American. Like many other white people, then and now,
he romanticized
the culture, personalities and even bodies of African-
Americans. Who
can help but chuckle when they read his paean to the
"happy
Negroes of America" in OTR? We know that African-Americans aren't
all that happy
all the time. Why should they be? They're just people and
people aren't
typically elated, to put it mildly. Kerouac was
romanticizing
them, objectifying them in a way, because his experience
of their lives as
actually lived was so meager. Also, he was pining to
be anything other
than what he so drearily was at that moment: a white
man. It's the
same with Mardou. She is strange to him. Alien. He can't
imagine what it's
like to be inside her skin and so he concentrates on the
part of her that
is different from other women he's known: her hair, her
cheekbones, the
color and texture of her skin. This is entirely natural.
Which of us who
has had an intimate relationship with someone of another
race hasn't felt
the tingle of the exotic, that almost intoxicating
fascination that
comes from close proximity to someone so attractive and
yet so physically
different? If you claim otherwise, I say you're a liar.
You just didn't
write honestly about it, as Jack did. Most of us who
persist in these
relationships soon find that the object of our affection
is indeed no
different than we are on the inside. People are just people,
after all. But
there is power and mystery in physical differences. The
problem today is
how to express that mystery without some moral cop writing
you a ticket.
Sexism is a much
greater problem in Kerouac. It's clear that he was nearly
misogynistic in
his views toward women, views no doubt reinforced by
heterosexual cads
like Cassady as well as homosexual
--
Mark S. Gordon
"If you want
somebody you can trust, trust yourself." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 14:59:57 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Questad
<questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: To flame or not to flame
This observation
could just as easily apply to almost every list or
Usenet group I've
looked at in my short time on the Net. And applies to
pretty much every
other Net group more than it does here, where I've
found most
everyone to be sweet and generous.
Alot of Net users
are gregarious and bold, the anonimity of the
situation
empowering them to say whatever they feel.
The same freedom
that allows a
self-taught person to converse with an academic
encourages some
people to attack others simply because they can. I'm
afraid a couple
of my friends who helped with my setup before I got on
line I now
recognize are of this type. They like to
attack others,
belittle them and
mock them. I guess most of us have never
felt free
to walk into a
room and laugh at the first person who opens his mouth.
For some reason
this is very exciting to some people.
I haven't seen it
happen here, but I know most of us have experienced
it in one form or
another because there is a distinct fear of flaming
between the lines
of many of the posts on BEAT-L.
Statements that
begin "This
is just my opinion PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME" show this fear.
I think most of
us are gentle souls looking for friends and no matter
how
"safe" the internet is, nobody wants to be jumped on for stating
his opinion. I
think most of us think harder than we should have to
about what we
post out of fear of an individual or group reacting with
harsh and painful
words. Or more often, "if I disagree with this
person, will
he/she think I am trying to hurt them".
This is an aspect
of on line life I don't expect will change, but I
would state that
I joined this list recently thinking it a literary
discussion
group. And it is, but how far can it go
if we are afraid to
critisize or be
critisized. If I make a remark and you
know or believe
differently, I
would welcome a response. I also hope to
be able to
debate without
hurting someone's feelings. I'd add that even more than
being afraid of
flames, we are afraid someone will think our gentle
remarks are
malicious and we are scared to disagree.
I make these
comments not in response to anything on this list other
than three or
four postings that contained emphatic apologies in
advance.
And I realize one
of the main ways to get flamed is to write an overly
long
message. But I'm not apologizing. Responses
of all sorts welcome.
Jeff Questad
Austin, Tx
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 20:23:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Andrew J Schwartz
<schwrtz@MAGICNET.NET>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
burn baby, burn.
or to be more
specific:
"Whee. Sal,
we gotta go and never stop going till we get there."
"Where we
going, man?"
"I don't
know but we gotta go."
-Jack Kerouac, On The Road, page 238
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
The Radiation Group Globalmedia Designs
Putting Your Business in Their Laptops
http://www.magicnet.net/rz/rad_home.html
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 22:18:29 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
jeff--
i think flames
differ from genuine disagreements about the content
of someone's
message. i have no problem with arguing
my point(s)
and exchanging ideas. how else will i be able to learn, if not
by being exposed
to different opinions? i might not agree
with
all of them, i
might reject some of them completely, or i might
see truth(s) in
them. but every exchange gives one an
opportunity
to construct
knowledge a bit differently (not to groove in the
same old
constructs for all eternity).
the problem comes
when people attack the writer of the message, rather
than the
message. i have been on lists where the
usual reply
to post was
something like "you moron, you have no idea what you
are talking
about; let me show you the real truth!"
well, that's
unkind and
unnecessary, and leads to those flame wars where positions
get so entrenched
that genuine inter-change is impossible.
the culmination
usually is some type of heated name-calling, in
which the person
with the biggest four-letter vocab wrestles
everybody into
submission. it's fun to watch for about
a day
or two, and then
the delete button becomes my best friend.
i try to write my
messages and responses with the realization of the
inherent
buddha-nature in every sentient being, but at times,
due to the nature
of this medium, words can obscure meaning
and intention . .
.
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 21:00:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
In-Reply-To: <950706221829.6ae8@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
I am the Buddha
known as the Poster.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 08:35:13 -0400
Reply-To: ab797@osfn.rhilinet.gov
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Mark S. Gordon"
<ab797@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV>
Subject: Re: To flame or not to flame
I've been on the
net for about six years and have been involved in many
a flame war,
particularly on the Usenet newsgroup sci.skeptic where, if
you even suggest
a belief in God, you invite mortal combat. My experience
is that flame
wars are just a big waste of time - all heat, no light.
Regrettably they
are also a tool used by some cowardly souls whose only
power resides in
the ability to post relatively anonymous text.
Whenever my
comments are in direct response to someone else's, I always
include a flame
disclaimer, not because I fear retribution, but because
I don't want to
hurt anyone's feelings. If people want
to come after me,
they're welcome
to, but I won't come after them.
--
Mark S. Gordon
"If you want
somebody you can trust, trust yourself." -Dylan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 09:08:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: flaming?
I guess I'm a
little dense, or the flaming has been private among other
readers, but I
haven't read anything in this list that I would consider
to be flaming. I've seen honest opinions, maybe some
emotional
responses, but
certainly nothing that I would take personally.
In fact,
the messages I
received this morning all appeared to say the same
thing...this is
an open forum and we should all respect the rights of
others to voice
their opinion in a dignified manner.
It's what I enjoy
most about this
list. Personally, I'm not afraid of
other people voicing
opinions that are
contrary to my own, I am just not used to exposing my
soul to strangers
(even to people I love dearly) so I tend to be shy
about intense
subjects. I don't get angry when people
close their
minds...it makes
me sad. Intolerance is rampant in this
world; I'd like
to think I found
a place to be free of this disease. Peace to all. Kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 06:41:22 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: back to spontaneous prose
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Creator of Literary Kicks, the Beat Literature
Web Site
URL:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
Please preview my new Web project, Queensboro
Ballads
URL: http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
"How can you
have any pudding if you won't eat your meat?"
-- Pink Floyd
----------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 00:23:12 GMT
Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Simon Okotie
<simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: summary
Dear All
Thank you, thank
you, thank you, whoever put this list together (was it you
Brian?). I first read Kerouac at that time when I'd
just left college and felt,
from the comfort
of my own back garden, that I could do anything. He continues
to inspire me to
go further and deeper, like no other writer has done or will
do. I recently
kicked in my job and am now 'freelance' which is a lot to do with
the way this
'crazy dumbsaint of the mind' has affected me over the years.
Brian wrote:
> Another interesting thread has been the
Zen connection to the Beats
> (critical
appraisal's of Dharma Bums; Gary Snyder's work), and through it some
> important
observations and challenges concerning the way we perceive "the
>
Beats"--as a historical period or a way of being/frame of mind and spirit
that
> continues
(maybe both).
Yes, I think it
is a historical period which is particularly relevant to now,
although I can't
quite put my finger on why. I feel it's a lot to do with
disaffection for
traditional economic and political (in the widest sense)
processes, and
the greater array of opportunities that so many of us are lucky
to have when
compared to our parents' generation.
Coupland's novel 'Generation
X' sums this up
well, although in a much less accomplished way than Kerouac's
work; it frees
the spirit in the same way that OTR does.
--
Simon Okotie
North London
UK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.'
W B Yeats
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 13:17:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeff Questad
<questad@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Burroughs and 3rd mind
I suspect there
are alot of us on this list who are writers and who
have taken
inspiration from the Kerouac and Ginsberg.
Is there anyone
who has read
Third Mind by Burroughs and Gyson and perhaps done any of
that kind of
writing?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 09:44:53 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: kerouac movie
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:01:16 -0700
from
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
On Fri, 30 Jun
1995 15:01:16 -0700 Thomas DeRosa said:
>latest rumors
i've heard from levi asher (literary kicks, web page) is
>that coppola
is directing it, not gus van sant. another rumor is that
>dean will be
played by sean penn and sal will be brad pitt. all this is
>rumor so you
didn't hear it from me. check out lit. kicks beat news for
>more info
than i can remember.
>i just
subscribed to this list yesterday and i must say i am impressed.
>its so great
to find others who are into the beats. five years ago i
>really had to
search for their books, now they're all over. should we
>send the gap
a thank you note?
No need to worry
about spreading rumors. This info has appeared
in print in a
number of
publications including Time or Newsweek.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:28:35 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ed Zahniser
<Ed_Zahniser@NPS.GOV>
Subject: Re: _dharma bums_ / ginsberg
Comments: To: Win
Mattingly <GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
The Contemporary American Theater
Festival in Shepherdstown,
WV (July 5-23) is doing John Lipsky's
play "Maggie's Riff"
about Kerouac & his looking back
on his first love in
hometown Lowell, Mass. For information
call the festival at
304-876-3473.
These are equity actors, and they do a
good job with the
play.
Ed
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 12:55:20 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Raymond Holloway
<urhollow@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
In-Reply-To: <950705145645_25814261@aol.com>
Ray Holloway
770 N. Halsted
Suite 420
Chicago, IL 60622
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:57:30 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: eli wilentz obit
I was very
pleased to find so much traffic on the list when I returned from vac
ation. I also found that Eli Wilentz, co-owner of
the legendary Eighth Street
Bookshop and
publisher of the Corinth Press which published Kerouac's Scripture
of the Golden Eternity, among others, had
passed away. For anyone interested
there's an
obituary in the New York Times on Monday June 26, Section B, page 8.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:33:49 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The Desolation Angels
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:37:18 EDT from
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
On Thu, 6 Jul
1995 10:37:18 EDT Stedman, Jim said:
>I seem to
remember once hearing that Desolation Angels contained
>material
originally hacked out of the OTR teletype roll manuscript. I
>would love to
see a release of _that_ manuscript... when TS Eliot's
>Wasteland
manuscript was published, I was really drawn in by the notes,
>comments, and
corrections supplied by Pound, Eliot, and others.
>Imagine
marketing the teletype manuscript as just that, a roll of paper
>(instead of a
bound book).
>Does anyone
know whether the roll still exists? If so, where is it
>housed?
>Jim Stedman
The roll
manuscript was on display at the New York Public Library last week. T
here was some
talk about publishing a facsimile of it at the NYU conference las
t month. The roll is in fairly bad shape. If it is published, it will probabl
y be expensive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 16:20:51 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: OTR Roll Still on Display
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 6 Jul 1995 15:57:09 EDT from
<JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>
On Thu, 6 Jul
1995 15:57:09 EDT Stedman, Jim said:
>Jack told
Steve Allen that the manuscript was typed on a teletype roll,
>and that it
took three weeks to write. From memory, I think the exchange
>goes
something like this:
>Steve: Three
weeks??? How long were you on the road?
>Jack: Six
years
>Steve: I was
once on the road for three weeks and it took six years to
>write about
it.
>Jim Stedman
There's always
been some confusion as to what type of roll OTR was typed on. S
ometimes, I've
wondered if there wasn't a second roll manuscript. The roll at
NYPL looks like a
teletype roll to me -- cheap yellow paper.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:31:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Adam Cohen-Siegel Ucberkeley
<acohens@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs and 3rd mind
Comments: To:
BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Hi,
I've read The
Third Mind four or five times over the years (it's usually
been through
academic libraries because it's been out of print for years) and
have in fact done
work with my own aleatory texts. I agree
with Burroughs
that some
conscious manipulation on the part of the author (or assembler) is
necessary to make
it worthwhile. The whole point is that
there are three
guiding
intelligences at work. It's fun to do
and one invariably comes up
with stuff that
is engaging, hilarious, or creepy. A lot
of it is boring too -
that's where the
auctorial hand should make itself known.
'rub the words out' i
n all its
permutations can get kind of samey, but 'the razor inside. jerk the
handle.' or
'lonesome blue train whistle 1920s etc.' fit the bill (no pun
intended)
nicely. i think it's a terrific prose
technique and deserves a
place in the
palette of any writer.
adam cohen-siegel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 13:40:09 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: Digest option
A number of
people have asked about receiving Beat-L as a digest rather
than individual
postings. Easily done. Just send the following message to
listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu
(*not* to beat-l!!):
set beat-l digest
That's all there
is to it. Should you want to receive individual postings
again, send mail
again to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu with the following message:
set beat-l mail
Fred Bogin
William Gargan
Beat-L owners
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 15:27:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JoAnn Ruvoli <jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject: Diana DiPrima
Has anyone read
anything by Diana Diprima? What would
you recommend? I've
only read
excerpts of Dinners and Nightmares.
JoAnne Ruvoli
Loyola
University-Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 13:50:37 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lesley Reece <lreece01@SCCCED.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
That's all I've ever seen by her, and
I haunt bookstores
quite a bit.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 13:56:44 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lesley Reece
<lreece01@SCCCED.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: OTR Roll Still on Display
I heard it was a roll of shelf
paper. I've never seen it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:00:50 PST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lesley Reece
<lreece01@SCCCED.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
Lesley Reece
1521 15th Ave #F
Seattle, WA 98122
Thank you very much.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:02:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Daniel Lundy <dlundy@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To:
<9506118054.AA805495874@SCCCSTU.sccced.ctc.edu>
Penguin is
scheduled to reissue MEMOIRS OF A BEATNIK and also a volume of
poetry LOBA but
not until August 1996.
Dan Lundy
DLUNDY@penguin.com
Academic
Marketing & Sales
tel: 212-366-2373
PENGUIN USA fax: 212-366-2933
375 Hudson
Street
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
New York, NY
10014-3657 "
60 PENGUIN YEARS "
On Tue, 11 Jul
1995, Lesley Reece wrote:
> That's all I've ever seen by her,
and I haunt bookstores
> quite a bit.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:33:47 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: JoAnn Ruvoli
<jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SUN.3.91.950711170040.9420A-100000@panix.com>
I know that
Northwestern Univ. in Evanston has a significant amount of
DiPrima material
in their special collections, but I haven't had time to
go over there to
look at it. I have a feeling it is
primarily small
press editions of
her poetry. Is LOBA a compilation of her
work or a
reprint?
On Tue, 11 Jul
1995, Daniel Lundy wrote:
> Penguin is
scheduled to reissue MEMOIRS OF A BEATNIK and also a volume of
> poetry LOBA
but not until August 1996.
>
> Dan
Lundy
DLUNDY@penguin.com
> Academic
Marketing & Sales
tel: 212-366-2373
> PENGUIN
USA
fax: 212-366-2933
> 375 Hudson
Street
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
> New York, NY
10014-3657 "
60 PENGUIN YEARS "
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:46:05 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 11 Jul 1995 15:27:04 -0500
from
<jruvoli@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>
Di Prima is
wonderful. I recommend the Selected Poems
for a start. Also Memoi
rs of a Beatnik,
a pornographic novel/memoir that includes an orgy with Jack Ke
rouac.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 11:15:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: otr
so i'm near the
end...and it hits me...hard..dean is no longer just
ranting...there's
substance...there's life and it is the road.
i get it
now... how misled i was in the beginning...i
thought, "how empty" i see
now how wrong i
was. i'm gone now.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 13:01:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Norm Carlson
<CARLSONN@WMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 11 Jul 1995
17:46:05 -0400 (EDT)"
<BEAT-L%95071117515100@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Something slightly different that Diane di
Prima did: in
1960, she edited a collection entitled
VARIOUS FABLES FROM
VARIOUS PLACES, published as a Putnam
Capricorn [paperbound]
Original (for $1.15)....
Norm Carlson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 13:50:11 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Scott
<kerouac@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Diana DiPrima
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950711170040.9420A-100000@panix.com>
I may be wrong, but I'm sure I've seen
Memoirs of a Beatnik at
several
bookstores. Not sure who it's published
by, though. However,
no, I haven't
seen much else on bookstore shelves by DiPrima.
Scott
Yeah. Right.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 21:39:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lisa Taylor <LisaTMP@AOL.COM>
Subject: DALLAS EVENTS
"VISIONARIES
AND REBELS:
AMERICAN
LITERATURE AFTER THE ATOM BOMB"
AN EXHIBIT OF THE
COLOPHON MODERNS COLLECTION
FIRST EDITION
BOOKS FROM 1950-1975
OPENS SEPT. 20 AT SMU DEGOLYER LIBRARY
For press
information:
Lisa Taylor,
Taylor-Made Press
(214) 943-1099
Release date:
July 14, 1995
DALLAS-TX--The
Friends of the SMU Libraries will celebrate its 25th
anniversary with
an exhibit of selected works from its Colophon Moderns
Collection Sept.
20-Nov. 17, 1995 at DeGolyer Library, 6404 Hilltop Lane, on
the Southern
Methodist University campus. The exhibit
will be FREE and open
to the public
Monday-Friday 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. as well as during special
events. Call (214) 768-3225 for more information.
The exhibit of
over 60 works, curated by SMU alumna Mary Courtney, includes
first editions by
Edward Albee, James Baldwin, Saul Bellow, Richard
Brautigan,
Charles Bukowski, William Burroughs, Robert Creeley, James Dickey,
Joan Didion,
Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Allen Ginsberg, Joseph Heller, Robert
Kelly, Jack
Kerouac, Ken Kesey, Norman Mailer, Larry McMurtry, Flannery
O'Connor, Joyce
Carol Oates, Gary Snyder, Kurt Vonnegut, Anne Waldman and
Thomas Wolfe.
Related events
include an opening celebration with Decherd Turner speaking on
"My Literary
Dilemma: Too Young To Be Lost, Too Old To Be Beat" on Sept. 20,
the screening of
Beat generation films on Sept. 28 and Sept. 29, a benefit
dinner at
Michele's on Oct. 2, the screening of Robert Frank films every
weekend in Oct.,
a panel discussion on Oct. 19 commemorating The Southwest
Review's 80th
anniversary, a poetry and music concert on Nov. 8, a
presentation of
awards for a student book collecting contest on Nov. 17, and
a reading series
presented with the Writer's Garret on Oct. 5, 12, and 26.
Highlighting the
literary effort of postwar American authors who made
significant
contributions to fiction and poetry, the Colophon Moderns
Collection was
begun by the Friends of the SMU Libraries to identify and
collect
"those books published in 1950 and thereafter which are judged to be
definitive in
establishing the contours of the spirit-soul-mind of man."
Later, the
emphasis was changed to "collect writers rather than individual
works,
particularly in the fields of the novel and drama, poetry, essays and
criticism. "
The writers were selected as those "who have most clearly
contributed to
the profile of what man was doing during 1950/1975--his
agonies, goals,
disappointments, protests, affirmations, etc." The Colophon
Moderns
Collection has grown to include 133 authors, 1200 books, 140
broadsides, 58
periodicals, and 190 anthologies and is now a unique resource
for students and
scholars.
The Friends of
the SMU Libraries/Colophon was founded in 1970 to help the
nine University
libraries maintain their excellence.
During its 25-year
history, the
Friends have funded over $250,000 in grants to support library
materials,
services and operations.
"VISIONARIES
AND REBELS:
AMERICAN
LITERATURE AFTER THE ATOM BOMB"
SCHEDULE OF FALL
EVENTS
For press
information:
Lisa Taylor,
Taylor-Made Press
(214) 943-1099
Release date:
July 14, 1995
OPENING NIGHT
RECEPTION/TALK
Sept. 20 6:30
p.m. DeGolyer Library
6404 Hilltop
Lane, SMU Campus. Free, donations accepted.
Opening
celebration in honor of charter members and former presidents of the
Friends of SMU
Libraries. Decherd Turner will speak on "My Literary Dilemma:
Too Young to be
Lost, Too Old to be Beat"
FILMS
Southwest Film
and Video Archives Sept. 28 7:30 p.m. Screening Room Third
Floor
Greer Garson
Theater Building Meadows School of the
Arts
SMU Campus. FREE,
donations accepted
FILMS ABOUT THE
BEAT
Jack Kerouac's
Road : Through photographs, archival film footage, interviews
and skillful
reconstructions of events, Jack Kerouac's Road
traces the life
of this gifted
American writer--with special attention to his many
experiences
travelling from one end of the US to the other by car--
experiences which
he wrote down and turned into a romantic epic.
French with
English
subtitles.
William S.
Burroughs: Commissioner of the Sewers: A portrait of the author
who created Naked
Lunch. With his characteristically dry
wit and subtle
humor, Burroughs
talks about language and other weapons, about the work as a
virus, about
death and dreams, about travel in time and space.
Sept. 29 7:30
p.m. Screening Room Third Floor
Greer Garson
Theater Building Meadows School of the
Arts
SMU campus. FREE,
donations accepted
FILMS ABOUT THE
BEAT
Kerouac: An award
winning docu-drama about the King of the Beat Generation,
Jack Kerouac.
Oct. 6-7 8 p.m./ Oct. 8 3 p.m The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE
members and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
Pull My Daisy and
Energy and How to Get It
Oct. 13-14 at 8
p.m., Oct. 15 at 3 p.m. The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE
members, and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
This Song for
Jack and Hunter
OVER
PAGE TWO
Oct. 20-21 8 p.m., Oct. 22 3 p.m. The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE
members, and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
Conversations in
Vermont and Life Dances On
Oct. 27-28 8 p.m., Oct. 29 3 p.m. The CineMac
McKinney Avenue
Contemporary (The MAC), 3120 McKinney Ave.
$2 for DARE members,
and Friends of SMU Libraries, $4 general.
FILMS BY ROBERT
FRANK
C'est Vrai
MOMENTS WITH THE
MODERNS: A READING SERIES
Presented in
conjunction with The Writer's Garret for three Thursdays at 7:30
p.m. at DeGolyer
Library, SMU Campus. FREE ADMISSION. Donations accepted.
Oct. 5 7:30 p.m.
READING BETWEEN THE LINES: Joe Stanco interviews Jack
Kerouac (actor
Mark Hankla).
Oct. 12 7:30 p.m.
READING BETWEEN THE LINES: Glodean
Baker-Gardner
interviews James
Baldwin (actor Fred Gardner).
Oct. 26 7:30 p.m.
Reel/Real Writers: Allen Ginsberg on video, with Joe Stanco
live. This is an encore performance from The MAC.
EAT TO THE
BEAT-DINING
Michelle's Coffee
Bar & Cafe, 6617 Snider Plaza, will present a benefit night
on Monday, Oct. 2
5-9:30 p.m. for the Friends of the SMU Libraries. Proceeds
from all dinners
that evening will benefit the Friends' organization. Call
691-8164 for
reservations.
PANEL DISCUSSION
In celebration of
The Southwest Review's 80th Anniversary
'A Literary Overview
of the Post War Period"
Thursday, Oct. 19
at 7:30 p.m. FREE.
Hughes-Trigg
Student Center Auditorium, SMU campus
The panel will be
moderated by Willard Spiegelman, Prof. of
Literature at
SMU, with
participation by Steven Kellman, Ashbel
Smith Professor of
Comparative
Literature, UT San Antonio; Jack Myers, Professor of English,
SMU. Additional panelists to be announced.
MUSIC
Meadows New Music
Ensemble
Nov. 8 8 p.m.
O'Donnell Lecture
Recital Hall SMU Meadows School of the Arts
FREE Improvisational
performance of beat poetry and music.
SMU LITERARY
FESTIVAL
1995 Student Book
Collecting Contest
Awards
presentation
Nov. 17 at Hughes Trigg Student Center
All full-time
undergraduate and graduate SMU students are eligible to enter
this contest
sponsored the Friends of the SMU Libraries.
Deadline for
entries is Nov.
1. Display of the winning book
collections and a reception
honoring the
winners takes place at 6:30 p.m. in DeGolyer Library prior to
the presentation
of the awards by the SMU Literary Festival guest author in
the Hughes Trigg
Theater. To commemorate the Friends'
25th anniversary, a
special prize
will be given to the collection that best establishes the
original Colophon
Collection theme.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 01:25:44 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kerolist@AOL.COM
Subject: No Subject
Please add me to
the BEAT-L: Beat Generation List
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:27:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
In case anyone is
working on an article on Kerouac in Florida, I pass on this n
ote from The
Hemingway Newsletter: "The Journal
of Florida Literature invites
submissions of
creative writing, articles, notes and reviews devoted to Florida
writers and literature about
Florida." I guess Kerouac
qualifies. Contact R
odger L. Tarr,
editor, English Dept., 4240 Illinois State Univ., Normal, IL
61790-4240.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 15:47:22 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Ron Morrow
<MORROW@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject: Gary Snyder On TV
I've read several
posts referring to Gary Snyder and wanted
to let everyone
know that, according to my local listings,
he is scheduled
to be on a show on PBS called, "The Language
Of Life With Bill
Moyers" at 9:00 p.m. tonight (July 14th).
According to the
listings, "Gary Snyder uses words to defend
the natural
world; Daisy Zamora writes about the pain of war."
The show is one
hour long.
Ron Morrow
Toronto, Canada
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:30:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: broken bones
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071415581288@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
There's a song
that Al Ginsberg sings in the recent documentary about him
that
goes..."broken bones, broken bones...etc."
Does anyone know
if a recording of this is available?
It doesn't seem
to be on the box set, but maybe it is?
A posting of
available recordings would be great.
tanks,
joe
jreifer@wahoo.sjsu.edu
http://gallery.sjsu.edu/ArtH/Tibet/main.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:39:00 PDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bruce Greeley
<v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: broken bones
I haven't heard
Ginsberg's boxed set but believe it has different
material than one
earlier record he put out with a bunch of 'downtown,
skronking jazzbos
and avant-rockers' -- where the recording you're
talking about may
have come from -- unfortunately, I don't remember the
title to this
("The Lion is Roaring" maybe?) which is at home.
Other recordings
which Ginsberg has been on:
* song with
"The Clash" (?title?)
* album where he
sings Blake poems accompanying himself on harmonium,
plus guest
artists like Don Cherry, Elvin Jones, Peter Orlovsky
if this doesn't
prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in
my music
collection this weekend(!)
- Greeley not
Creeley
----------
From: Joe
Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: broken
bones
Date: Friday,
July 14, 1995 1:30PM
There's a song
that Al Ginsberg sings in the recent documentary about him
that
goes..."broken bones, broken bones...etc."
Does anyone know
if a recording of this is available?
It doesn't seem
to be on the box set, but maybe it is?
A posting of
available recordings would be great.
tanks,
joe
jreifer@wahoo.sjsu.edu
http://gallery.sjsu.edu/ArtH/Tibet/main.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:25:57 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Shana Skaletsky
<isis@MARS.MCS.COM>
Subject: Re: broken bones
In-Reply-To: <9507161213.AA22666@netmail2.microsoft.com>
On Fri, 14 Jul
1995, Bruce Greeley wrote:
> I haven't
heard Ginsberg's boxed set but believe it has different
> material
than one earlier record he put out with a bunch of 'downtown,
> skronking
jazzbos and avant-rockers' -- where the recording you're
> talking
about may have come from -- unfortunately, I don't remember the
> title to
this ("The Lion is Roaring" maybe?) which is at home.
> Other
recordings which Ginsberg has been on:
> * song with
"The Clash" (?title?)
>
> if this doesn't
prompt others to remember better than me, I'll look in
> my music
collection this weekend(!)
>
> - Greeley
not Creeley
> ----------
I believe that
the song Allen Ginsberg recorded with The Clash is called
"Ghetto
Defendant", and can be found on The Clash album "Combat Rock",
recorded @1980.
While we're on the topic, I was wondering if anyone knew
anything about a
rumour I heard-it involved Allen and the rock band U2
recording
something together. can anyone confirm or deny this for me?
-Shana
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:46:50 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Matthew C. Curcio"
<curcio@BIOC02.UTHSCSA.EDU>
Subject: LynxOfTheWeek71495
Hey Guys abd
Girls,
Thought some of
you would like to cruise the web sites of distinction and
this might be one
you will like.
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/JackKerouac.html
Have Fun
Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:15:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM
Subject: YOU'RE FIRED!
Soft-pedal it all
you want by calling it a "reduction in force",
"downsizing",
whatever. The fact is, you have heard
these words, or will at
some point in the
near future unless you take Ownership of your talents and
skills.
The workplace is
changing faster than ever before in the history of mankind.
In order to fit in, you, I and everyone who
works needs to become an expert
is what we do and
find a way to partner with a company so we can both
succeed.
I've been in your
shoes and have Coached a lot of people through the process
of identifying
where they fit into the future workplace.
Last fall, I put my
thoughts into a
book entitled, The Unchained Worker.
Here is an
overview of The Unchained Worker - Principles of Ownership in the
Workplace, and
what people are saying about it.
Ownership
inspires and motivates us to take action, to protect and improve
what's ours. We own our talents, experience and
capabilities. When we put
them in
partnership with a company, the future is ours to make........
What is
Ownership? It's a new perspective for
all of us to use when dealing
with our
jobs. Ownership is a mind-set, an
attitude that forces you to look
no further than
yourself to secure your future in the workplace. It's the
catalyst for
superior individual performance within companies. It provides a
common vocabulary
for workers to excel as individuals. Ownership motivates
people to develop
their talents and bolster individual performance. It puts
success in their
hands..........
Table of
Contents.
1. Take control of your future with Ownership
2. Ownership is a vocabulary for success.
3. Ownership is a problem solving tool.
4. Ownership exercises your brain.
5. Adjust your attitude for better performance.
6. Ownership starts with common sense.
7. Ownership is the workplace of the future.
8. Get work done more efficiently with Ownership
9. How Mis-applied responsibility holds you
back.
10. Ownership in
Action.
11. The
principles that will guide your success.
12. Ownership is
an Adventure
13. Ownership
unleashes your performance.
The intended
audience is everyone who works. There
are 142 pages with plenty
of graphics and
illustrations. It's about a 2 hour read
total.
Here's what
people are saying about The Unchained Worker:
I've always
believed in the
individual's desire to succeed. Creating
the right
environment is the
key. Ownership will work in any
organization, Great stuff
- Dennis
Erickson, Head Coach Seattle Seahawks.
Inspirational! Fantastic!
What a wonderful
book. It made me think about things I've
never considered.
Thanks. - Staci
Clevenger, Assembly line worker.
I want to wish
you the very best of luck in your careers.
Jeffrey C.
Petkevicius
Cybernetix Inc.
14817 N. Jennifer
Ct.
Mead, WA 99021
(800) 517-4268
FAX: (509)
467-9573
Ownership@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:13:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from
"OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul
17, 95 06:15:52 pm
> Cybernetix
Inc.
> 14817 N.
Jennifer Ct.
> Mead, WA
99021
> (800)
517-4268
> FAX: (509)
467-9573
>
Ownership@aol.com
I believe it's
proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
dude by phone,
e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
GET HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
Anyway, why does
he think people who read Beat literature have employment
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch of
bongo-playing beatniks here.
Also, besides the
fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
lame.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:29:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com>
Uh, I thought
this was supposed to be stuff about beat authors - not
about the
politics of having a job in the world today (although a
correlation would
have been nice and made that post - not reposted here
for sake of space
- relevant).
joe
things are
symbols of themselves - a. ginsberg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:24:25 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "KEVIN M. KELLY"
<kkelly3@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>
I feel compelled
to point out that this same individual _flooded_ another
listserv I
subscribe to with similar self-promotions of this same
book--complete
with quotes from "reviews." I
should also point out that
this was at least
a human resources list where such a listing might be
appropriate
(still shameless self-promotion) and he was quickly hounded
off the
list. He even posted a public apology
before disappearing - what
a guy!
For this post to
appear here suggests he is targeting random irrelevant
lists for maximum
exposure. He probably knows his message
won't last
long. I think this clown richly deserves any
appropriate response his ad
might bring his
way. Since he gave us his 800 # I have
to assume he wants
to hear from us.
On Mon, 17 Jul
1995, Levi Asher wrote:
> >
Cybernetix Inc.
> > 14817
N. Jennifer Ct.
> > Mead,
WA 99021
> > (800)
517-4268
> > FAX:
(509) 467-9573
> >
Ownership@aol.com
>
>
> I believe
it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
> dude by
phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
> GET
HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
>
> Anyway, why
does he think people who read Beat literature have employment
>
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch
of bongo-playing beatniks here.
>
> Also,
besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
> lame.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
> "So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
> timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
> my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
> or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
______________
Regards,
Kevin M. Kelly
Office of Human
Resources Voice: 703.993.2600
George Mason
University Fax: 703.993.2601
Fairfax, VA
22030-4444
kkelly3@osf1.gmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:34:28 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Kevin P. Freeman"
<kpfst2@POP.PITT.EDU>
Subject: On the Road
Does anyone have
an update on the possibility of a feature film of On the Road?
------
kpfst2@pop.pitt.edu
http://www.pitt.edu/~kpfst2
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:53:06 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To:
<199507180134.VAA26732@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
Francis Ford
Copolla was apparently working on this project - there were
casting
difficulties amongst other things and the project has been
delayed. Hold on
to yr hats, kids, because one article I read said they
were considering
Jim "the mask" carrey for the part of burroughs. Other
names mentioned
included yr typical hollywood gen-x stars. Scary stuff!
There are 2
documentaries on Kerouac (at least two) - one has cheesy
reenactments of
the beat era, the other doesn't. Guess which one I like
better. Ha ha ha.
Furthur, there is
that really great Ginsberg documentary from 93 and
something called
"the burroughs movie" (?) - a real good documentary and
someone stole my
copy and if anyone knows where to get one (preferably
for cheap,
dad...) i would be forever indebted, and that's a long time.
Here's the
question that spawned this post:
> Does anyone
have an update on the possibility of a feature film of On
the Road?
and don't you
know that god is pooh-bear? - j. kerouac
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:07:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road
Speaking of
goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be
surprised if
Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.
After all with,
Francis Ford
Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after Copolla
produced the Don
Juan DiMarco film. Also Depp is a
well-known beat fan. He
paid some $5000
at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac and
lists it as his
most prized possesion. He also
interviewed Ginberg for an
issue of
Interview.
What about the
cast from Naked Lunch? Ive heard from
several people that the
actors playing
walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an
excellent job and
that they would like to see them play the parts.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:26:14 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Fred Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: Ownership
What the guy did
was definitely not right. Let's flood his 800 number
with crank calls.
Write it on every lavatory door, if necessary. But let's
not tie up this
list with more comments about it. We deliberately don't
screen postings,
to allow the fullest interchange of ideas, and as a
consequence this
kind of thing can happen. 'nuff said.
Fred Bogin
Beat-L co-owner
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:22:28 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <950717181549_116873402@aol.com> from
"OWNERSHIP@AOL.COM" at Jul
17, 95 06:15:52 pm
> 1. Take control of your future with Ownership
let go of trying
to control, man...
> 2. Ownership is a vocabulary for success.
if domination is
your idea of being successful as a human being.
> 3. Ownership is a problem solving tool.
things always
have a way of working out if you let it be
> 4. Ownership exercises your brain.
independent thought
is the only exercise i practice...trying to control
what other people
think is an exercise in futility...self-help books are
only good for the
person who wrote it.
> 5. Adjust your attitude for better performance.
in other words,
be what other people want you to be.
> 6. Ownership starts with common sense.
What is it with
this ownership, possession jazz.. this
control freak is
really
annoying... sometimes literacy is wasted
on the mindless.
forget this...i'm
gone.
"...and
nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to anybody besides
the forlorn rags
of growing old..." Sal Paradise
peace.
pooh
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:46:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Elsie Pettit
<pettit@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <199507180013.RAA20482@netcom21.netcom.com>
On Mon, 17 Jul
1995, Levi Asher wrote:
> >
Cybernetix Inc.
> > 14817
N. Jennifer Ct.
> > Mead,
WA 99021
> > (800)
517-4268
> > FAX:
(509) 467-9573
> >
Ownership@aol.com
>
>
> I believe
it's proper internet etiquette to harass this sorry-ass
> dude by
phone, e-mail, and any other methods that come to mind. LET'S
> GET
HIM!!! A 1-800-number ... Wow ...
>
Ditto!
I just decided to ignore this bit of crass commercialism.
Beat-L, indeed!
> Anyway, why
does he think people who read Beat literature have employment
>
problems? Maybe he thinks we're a bunch
of bongo-playing beatniks here.
>
Ha! My
thoughts *exactly* when I read it.
(Have you called
him yet, Levi?)
Elsie Pettit
> Also,
besides the fact that this is a spam ... his book sounds extremely
> lame.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
> (the beat literature web
site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 150 years
ago this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
> "So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
> timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
> my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
> or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:24:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <950718020710_117207075@aol.com>
> What about
the cast from Naked Lunch? Ive heard
from several people that the
> actors
playing walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did an
> excellent
job and that they would like to see them play the parts.
I thought the
portrayals of Jack and Al in "Naked Lunch" were horribly
goofy - not goofy
in a sublime beat way - just plain offensive.
Shoulda left it
out - at least they didn't try to portray Gysin - sheesh.
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:46:19 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
I think Jim
Carrey would be a good Bull Lee. That is
the only potential
casting that I
have heard that sounds decent.
Who could play
Joan Burroughs character?
She was always
raking the lizards off the tree.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <199507181646.JAA26430@hsc.usc.edu>
On Tue, 18 Jul
1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
> I think Jim
Carrey would be a good Bull Lee. That is
the only potential
> casting that
I have heard that sounds decent.
>
> Who could
play Joan Burroughs character?
>
> She was
always raking the lizards off the tree.
>
I'd say they
should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
front of a
toasted pistol-toting Bill.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
So it has to be
Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in
Batman Forever -
shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would
play Dr Sax himself??)
Nick W-W
>>
>I'd say they
should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
>front of a
toasted pistol-toting Bill.
>
>Michael
Bertsch
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:34:28 +0300
Reply-To: jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Joseph Rodrigue
<jrodrigue@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.91.950718104321.4065C-100000@steroid.ecst.csuchico.edu>
(message from Michael Bertsch on Tue,
18 Jul 1995 10:44:23 -0700)
From: Michael
Bertsch <mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
> On Tue, 18
Jul 1995, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>> Who could
play Joan Burroughs' character?
> I'd say they
should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
> front of a
toasted pistol-toting Bill.
joan burroughs
was not ditzy.
do you know
anything at all about the burroughses?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:40:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:10:27 -0500
from <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
On Tue, 18 Jul
1995 13:10:27 -0500 Nick Weir-Williams said:
>So it has to
be Nicole Kidman then, repeating her triumphant performance in
>Batman
Forever - shades of Dr Sax (now that would be a movie - who would
>play Dr Sax
himself??)
>
>Nick W-W
>
>>>
>>I'd say
they should get a real ditzy actress, one numb enough to stand in
>>front of
a toasted pistol-toting Bill.
>>
>>Michael
Bertsch
>>
>>
I'd like to see
Jack Nicolson play Sax.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:02:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507181322.JAA09505@imageek.york.cuny.edu> from "Kristen
VanRiper" at Jul 18, 95
09:22:28 am
>
> forget
this...i'm gone.
>
Me too! Cool response.
> peace.
> pooh
Hey wait a minute
-- I thought God was pooh bear.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:11:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Katerie Prior <kadaca@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: Your message
<950718020710_117207075@aol.com> of Tue, 18 Jul 1995
02:07:10 -0400
On Tue, 18 Jul
1995 02:07:10 -0400, Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
wrote;
*Speaking of
goof-ball Hollywood money grabber headlines, I wouldn't be
*surprised if
Johnny Depp were in the On the Road movie.
After all
with,
*Francis Ford
Copolla directing and the two of them being pals after
Copolla
*produced the Don
Juan DiMarco film. Also Depp is a
well-known beat
fan. He
*paid some $5000
at an auction for an old overcoat belonging to Kerouac
and
*lists it as his
most prized possesion. He also
interviewed Ginberg for
an
*issue of
Interview.
*What about the
cast from Naked Lunch? Ive heard from
several people
that the
*actors playing
walk-on roles supposed to be Ginsberg and Kerouac did
an
*excellent job
and that they would like to see them play the parts.
But they seemed
really old to be playing Ginsberg and Kerouac.
Kerouac's
character was supposed to young, and the guy playing him in NL
had wrinkles
galore.
Kate
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:46:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071815422886@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Nicholson *would*
make a great Sax! Thanks, Bill Gargan!
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To:
<199507182002.NAA18394@netcom.netcom.com> from "Levi
Asher" at
Jul 18, 95 01:02:07 pm
> Hey wait a
minute -- I thought God was pooh bear.
levi, i was
floored when i read that....neal cassidy and i were riding on
the same plane at
that moment... i was truly moved by the last quarter of
_on the road_, it
was the kerouac that has moved me before. all this talk
on the list about
a movie doesn't do it for me. haven't
gotten to the
bookstore yet,
but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_
someone in
this list said
jack and neal were portrayed as goofy in _the naked
lunch_...haven't
seen it, but it's the reason i'm not into movies...some
overpaid actor
with no connection whatsoever will probably ruin it for
me.
take it easy.
pooh
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:09 CST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:15:22 -0500
from
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
I can't imagine
any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road
or any of Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the
movie-only
end up being disappointed.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:37:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: dharma bum biblio
In-Reply-To:
<199507191815.OAA02103@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
>... bookstore
yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_ someone in
yes! do that!
for fans of
dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
picked up one of
his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
library - mere
blocks away from my lil hut:
A Buddhist Bible
- edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
Two other
excellent books are:
The Zen Teaching
of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
Shambala (Pocket
Edition $6), 1994.
Zen Mind,
Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
It is quite
interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to
his Catholic
heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on
his travels to
find his French-Canadian ancestors.
joe
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>>...
bookstore yet, but i thought i'd pick up _the dharma bums_ someone in
>>yes! do
that!
>>for fans
of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
>>picked up
one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
>>library -
mere blocks away from my lil hut:
>>A
Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
>>Two other
excellent books are:
>>The Zen
Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
>>Shambala
(Pocket Edition $6), 1994.
>>Zen Mind,
Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
>>It is
quite interesting to note Kerouac's return from the Buddha lands to
>>his
Catholic heritage in his later works - most notably revelations on
>>his
travels to find his French-Canadian ancestors.
>>joe
A while ago I
posted a note about how Tom Clark's biography related that Kerouac
complained that the editor removed all the
catholic parts from the Dharma Bums.
So maybe he never really left Catholic land
for Buddha lands. I think the
Catholicism was always there. Books like Visions of Gerard, Tristessa and
Mexico city Blues I think are good unedited
examples of his use of Catholicism
and Buddhism together. Remember how often he uses the term the Lamb
or Lamby
Jesus.
And he mentions saints a lot.
Other Zen books
to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.
This I would
reccommend over any others. Others are anything by DT Suzuki (whom was
visited
by kerouac and others in the fifties) and
Philip Kapleau.
And his
biographers recount how Kerouac read and studied the Bible throughout
his life.
So read that too.
The Zen books I
mentioned are just that, Zen. Kerouac
wasn't Zen buddhist as
was Snyder.
I don't know much about it, but I think he studied Chinese
buddhism more.
Maybe someone can talk about that who knows more.
Nowadays it seems
people in the US are interestd in tibetan Buddhsim.
And so, when is
Kerouac's Life of Buddha coming out.
(This was anthologized in
Tricycle).
Supposed to be out this year.
Tim
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:39:34 -0400
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From: Terence Ritchie
<tritchie@SOS.WINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Garver?
William Garver,
a.k.a. Bull Gaines, Gains, Gahr-va, and affectionately
known to his
friends as "Old Honeyboy Bill" (Desolation Angels).
I 1st heard his
voice in Mexico City Blues & again in Desolation Angels
and he is without
doubt one of the more vivid characters I've come
across in a
literary while. Any more connections & info about this
gentleman would
be appreciated greatly or is nothing much more known?
As far as movies & Kerouac, "Joan
Rawshanks in the Fog" (Vision of
Cody), one of
Jack's more expansive rifts, springs to the mind and if
one of his old
coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed
even) for The
Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:52:32 EDT
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From: Win Mattingly
<GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:28:28 PDT from
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
On Wed, 19 Jul
1995 15:28:28 PDT Timothy K. Gallaher said:
>>>for
fans of dharma bums that would like to explore a little dharma - jack
>>>picked
up one of his first big books on buddhism at the san jose public
>>>library
- mere blocks away from my lil hut:
>
>>>A
Buddhist Bible - edited by Dwight Goddard. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.
>
>>>Two
other excellent books are:
>
>>>The
Zen Teaching of Huang Po - translated by John Blofeld - Boston:
>>>Shambala
(Pocket Edition $6), 1994.
>
>>>Zen
Mind, Beginner's Mind - by Shunryu Suzuki. New York: Weatherhill, 1993.
>
>Other Zen
books to look at would be Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.
This I would
> reccommend
over any others. Others are anything by
DT Suzuki (whom was
>visited
> by kerouac
and others in the fifties) and Philip Kapleau.
I would recommend
two books: The Empty Mirror and A Glimpse Of Nothingness,
both by Janwillem
Van DeWetering. He left his native
Holland dissatisfied with
capitalism and
the middle class life to enter a Japanese Zen monastery knowing
no Japanese and
with only the clothes on his back, which he describes in the
first book. He later spent several years in an American
Zen monastery in
Washington state,
which he describes in the second book.
Both provide real-
istic and
readable accounts of zen life and touch on the "zen lunatic" concept
that so
fascinated Kerouac (the Japanese monk in charge of the American mon-
astery likes to
get drunk on whiskey and watch cowboy movies).
Win
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:27:25 -0700
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From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<CMM.0.90.2.806192908.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
Rep's book is
interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -
unfortuneately
these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -
merely philosophy
(mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates
theory and
practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.
the
aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by
Kerouac who,
according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced
by this large
work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and
other works.
yes tim - i do
think that there were brilliant synchronizations of
catholicism and
buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study
Buddhism, the
more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see
the biblical
side). 8)
joe
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:29:50 -0700
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From: Joe Reifer <jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071920073292@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Welp, i guess i
started a "recommend your favorite zen book" string of
posts - sheesh.
sorry about that.
joe
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:05:10 -0700
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From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.SOL.3.91.950719192859.15225B-100000@wahoo.sjsu.edu>
Reading a book to
learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
hamburgers.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:22:09 EST
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From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU> Wrote:
|
|
| Reading a book
to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
| hamburgers.
I think I hear
the sound of one hand clapping.
-josephine-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:15:25 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>Rep's book is
interesting, as is DT Suzuki from a historical context -
>unfortuneately
these works don't have anything to do with zen practice -
>merely
philosophy (mostly Rinzai). Kapleau on the other hand incorporates
>theory and
practice - _the three pillars of zen_ especially.
>
>the
aforementioned Godard collection was studied inside and out by
>Kerouac who,
according to Ginsberg, was really turned on and influenced
>by this large
work containing japanese zen, chinese (ch'an), tibetan, and
>other works.
>
>yes tim - i
do think that there were brilliant synchronizations of
>catholicism
and buddhism in kerouac's work, and the more I study
>Buddhism, the
more I see it everywhere in his books (as I'm sure you see
>the biblical
side). 8)
>
>joe
I think his
catholicism gets short shrifted or downplayed or is considered
a negative
influence by many. I don't think Kerouac
would appreciate or
agree with these
observations though. BTW I'm not
Catholic. A few years
ago my friend was
looking for a present for his sister for her birthday.
His family is catholic
and his sister is pretty religious, Catholic
intellectual. She worked with the Mother Teresa
organization for a year,
taught at
catholic schools (maybe still does). I
reccommended that he give
her Visions of
Gerard with some trepidation. But later
I found out she
thought it was
the best book she'd ever read.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:17:02 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>Reading a
book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
>hamburgers.
>
>Michael
Bertsch
Best hamburg in
LA is In and Out. Burger King is the
best of the fast
fooders. I never had a Whitecastle hamburger.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:07:58 -0400
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From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Garver?
>one of his
old coats goes for 5 gees then what's a 1st ed. (signed
>even) for The
Road go for these days? Must be millions, no?
Actually you get
a 1st of On the Road for about $800. A
good place for this
and many other
beat rarities is the Beat Book Shop in Boulder, CO. They also
have signed
editions of every Bukowski.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:53:59 +0300
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From: T P Uschanov
<uschanov@CC.JOENSUU.FI>
Subject: On the Road movie
In-Reply-To: <01HT31W7GLXE000B3J@FIPORT.BITNET>
EVANSBRI@ESUVM.BITNET
wrote:
>I can't
imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The Road
>or any of
Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even
want to see the movie-only
>end up being
disappointed.
I think the late
Richard Brooks could have done a quite pleasant job on
On the Road. What
do others here think?
T P Uschanov
uschanov@cc.joensuu.fi
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:55:58 -0500
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From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU'RE FIRED!
In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95071916325760@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
from
"EVANSBRI%ESUVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"
at Jul 19, 95 03:28:09 pm
> I can't
imagine any filmmaker or actors being able to do justice to On The
Road
> or any of Kerouac's books. Im not sure ifI'd even want to see the
movie-only
> end up being disappointed.
yeah, i
agree. the way i see it, if you want to
know it, you've got to
experience it for
yourself.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:03:27 -0500
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From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu>
from "Michael Bertsch" at Jul 19,
95 08:05:10 pm
> Reading a
book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
> hamburgers.
> Michael
Bertsch
you know, i've
picked up a few zen related books, and i've always found
that a "zen
teacher" is an oxymoron..i mean, enlightenment cannot be
taught..it's is
up to the individual...isn't there a story about a
student who
surpasses his teacher by realizing this? (sort of remember
this in zen flesh
zen bones, but it's been a while)
not that it
matters.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:29:26 -0500
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From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
i think it might
be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests
along the lines
of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.
in their purest
forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are
after the same
thing. (let's just leave organized
religion outside
this entire
discussion) but both catholicism (and i
was raised catholic,
so i know of
which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study
buddhism) are
expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/
bodhisattva)
nature in man. the bible may employ
different terms,
but the life of
jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:38:58 -0700
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From: Joe Reifer
<jreifer@WAHOO.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.HPP.3.91.950719200400.26131A-100000@hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu>
> Reading a
book to learn Zen is like swatting a fly to learn how to cook
> hamburgers.
> Michael
Bertsch
ahhh...but you
should probably put the fly outside instead of swatting
it...and then
have a soyburger...(and then read a book on zen for food
for yr
brain....and then go sit....).
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:38:44 -0700
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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Dharma Bums Biblio
>i think it
might be too easy to divide kerouac's religious interests
>along the
lines of buddhism on one side and catholicism on the other side.
>in their
purest forms, both philosophies or 'roadmaps to life,' are
>after the
same thing. (let's just leave organized
religion outside
>this entire
discussion) but both catholicism (and i
was raised catholic,
>so i know of
which i speak <g>) and buddhism (and i, too, now study
>buddhism) are
expedients means to realize the inherent god (buddha/
>bodhisattva)
nature in man. the bible may employ
different terms,
>but the life
of jesus is the life of a bodhisattva.
>claudia
I think this is
well put.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:37:17 EST
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From: Josephine Thomson
<Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: beats and the femmes
Hi everyone,
I've just joined
the list and it's been an amazing education so far. At the
end of June
Kristen asked about how other women feel about Kerouac - here's my
thoughts...
I think Carolyn
Cassady's book, Off the Road, really sums it up for me: she
was a woman with
a family to support and this meant
(a) she couldn't
go out and be one of those wild and/or free-spirited women
that the lads
encountered on the road, she had to stay at home and raise the
kids; and
(b) she was
married to a reckless and exciting man who did all his reckless
and exciting
things away from her and was totally unequipped to provide for a
family in any
way. He also often expected her to
shoulder the consequences of
his action.
I think so many
beat writers were caught between wanting the love and
companionship of
a wife and a family and the need to be constantly running
away from it into
something new. I don't think it was
mysoginistic in any
way. I think a new way of life was opening up to
them but they were still
very much in the
shackles of the old way (ie, perceptions of the woman's
role). They may have had plenty of sex and plenty of
girlfriends but
unltimately the
beat generation was a boy's own adventure because they still
hadn't figured
out how to include women.
In my arrogant
opinion...
-josephine-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:42:40 -0400
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From: Penguin Electronic
<ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>
Subject: Quote from on the Road
I'd be grateful
for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road
where the quote (I approximate):
"The only
ones for me are the mad ones"
comes from.
And would you
agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?
A page numer or
any indication of where to find it in the novel would be greatly
appreciated.
Many thanks.
Julie Hansen
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:05:46 -0500
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From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
In-Reply-To:
<199507210235.MAA02398@netmanager.dotc.gov.au> from
"Josephine
Thomson" at Jul 21, 95
12:37:17 pm
josephine
> I think so
many beat writers were caught between wanting the love and
>
companionship of a wife and a family and the need to be constantly running
> away from it
into something new. I don't think it was
mysoginistic in any
> way. I think a new way of life was opening up to
them but they were still
> very much in
the shackles of the old way (ie, perceptions of the woman's
> role). They may have had plenty of sex and plenty of
girlfriends but
> unltimately
the beat generation was a boy's own adventure because they still
> hadn't
figured out how to include women.
i guess i'm not a
very good feminist, but i have to say, why should
"boys"
have to figure out a way to include women?
why couldn't women
find their own
way? i was somewhat sad when i read
about terry...not
because her
husband beat her and she had a child to support, but because
she ran to
another man to be something... she left
her child with her
family (a
courageous move on her part) and she left her husband (even
more so), but she
didn't have the courage to go out and find herself without
jack to lead the
way. maybe this is elitist of me since
i've taken
responsibility
for my own body and decided to not have children, (there are
enough children
that need love, and need a responsible person to help them
survive, why have
more) but i don't define myself by the men in my life or the
children that i
bear.
i haven't brought
up kerouac's women since i finished otr because in my
opinion, kerouac
wasn't writing about the women or the sex or the
indulgences... these are all superficial aspects of what the
road means
to me now.
kristen
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:31:14 -0700
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From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
In-Reply-To: <s00f6690.037@penguin.com> from
"Penguin Electronic" at Jul 21,
95 08:42:40 am
>
> I'd be
grateful for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road
> where the quote (I approximate):
> "The
only ones for me are the mad ones"
> comes from.
It's in the first
couple of chapters (I don't have the book here at work, but
you don't have to
go far to find it, first 20 pages or so I'd guess).
> And would
you agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?
Yes, and
particularly PLAYED OUT! If somebody
were presenting a project on
Shakespeare and
said "To be or not to be, that is the question" -- I would
not be too
impressed. Likewise here. Dig deeper please ...
(insert smileys
as needed)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher =
brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://levity.willow.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
150 years ago
this month, Thoreau built a house near Walden Pond:
"So I went on for some days
cutting and hewing
timber, and also studs and rafters,
all with
my narrow axe, not having many
communicable
or scholar-like thoughts, singing to
myself -- "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:53:36 PDT
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From: "Bruce Greeley (Echo News
Service)" <v-bgree@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
It's in part one,
chapter one, like within the first 5 pages of the book...
(and they're the
only ones for me too!)
I'd say it IS one
of the defining points not only of the book but of
the movement(!)
(one of the few
quotes of his in Microsoft's own cd-rom BOOkshelf, by the way!)
- Bruce Greeley
<v-bgree@microsoft.com>
----------
From: Penguin
Electronic
<ELECTRONIC@PENGUIN.COM>
To: Multiple
recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Quote
from on the Road
Date: Friday,
July 21, 1995 8:42AM
I'd be grateful
for anyone who could steer me toward the place in On The Road
where the quote (I approximate):
"The only
ones for me are the mad ones"
comes from.
And would you
agree that this is a particularly resonant quote from OTR?
A page numer or
any indication of where to find it in the novel would
be greatly
appreciated.
Many thanks.
Julie Hansen
http://www.penguin.com/usa/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:26:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
In-Reply-To: <s00f6690.037@penguin.com>
Goodness,
Julie. I'd suggest reading OTR again to
find that quote--but
then I'm an
English teacher, and you'd suspect such a suggestion from one
so warped.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:23:33 EDT
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Win Mattingly
<GMATT1@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:26:18 -0700
from
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
otr quote--it's
on page nine, about a third of the way down in the 25th anni-
versary edition
paperback (1980). Just sort of jumped
out at me b/c in this
dogeared
community college library copy it's highlighted with a big "wow" in
the margin. Who
said this generation of college youth had no souls?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:55:01 -0700
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From: Thomas DeRosa
<beatnik7@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
josephine,
just in case you weren't aware of it, there
is a book called minor
charactors, by
joyce johnson, that deals with the women involved in the
*movement*. i
guess she was a friend of kerouac's in the late fifties.
thats really all
i can say since i haven't read it yet. if i get around
to it anytime
soon i'll tell you more. or if any of you have read it,
you can.
namaste,
beatnik7
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:06:05 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Quote from on the Road
The quote is
toward the beginning, perhaps 1/4 from the start or before.
With a little browsing you should find it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:34:55 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mary Maguire 362 7134
<mmaguire@OSM.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Cassady Video (kinda long)
I posted a
message here a few weeks ago asking if anyone had watched the
Neal
Cassady/Merry Pranksters videos put out by Key-Z productions, and
whether or not
they're worth buying (for $70). Unfortunately, noone
replied. :(
Last Friday, I
was able to rent one of these (for the Torontonians out
there, it was at
Suspect Video on Markham St.). It's entitled _Neal
Cassady_ and
claims to be a "series of raps" by Neal. It consists of
silent footage of
Neal, including scenes of him driving "Further" (the
bus), with
voiceovers of his monologues.
The first scenes,
in which Neal is dancing around a room, appear to be the
same as the
"Neal in the Backhouse" pictures found on the bottom,
righthand corner
of every page in Ken Kesey's _A Further Inquiry_. (You
can thumb the
pages and make it look as though Neal is actually moving.)
Anyway, some of
the movie monologues may be the same as those transcribed
in _A Further
Inquiry_. I can't say for sure 'cause I couldn't follow a
damn thing on
this tape. I had to turn it off halfway through. Does that
mean I lose my
membership in the Beat fanclub? I've felt both fascination
and repulsion
toward Neal Cassady since first encountering him in OTR and
especially after
reading Carolyn Cassady's _Off the Road_, but I was
really disturbed
by this video. Despite having read countless descriptions
of Neal's manic
behaviour, I was unprepared for actually seeing and
hearing it -- he
just NEVER stops moving. To be honest, it terrified me.
Perhaps the
disembodied voice made it worse. It sounded old, and reminded
me of the crazy
people who have that vacant look and just keep on talking
as you search
their eyes, trying to connect. Maybe it
was because Neal's
was the ONLY
voice. If there had been others, I could have witnessed a
connection.
I'm glancing
through the Further Inquiry transcripts as I write this, and
on paper, he's
the same Neal I'd always imagined and wanted him to be.
Sorry to burden
you with my inward struggle, but this is Dean Moriarty --
and I DIDN'T LIKE
HIM. On a philosophical level, I understand the appeal
of the "mad
ones", but I wondered how the same Jack who spent weeks in
solitude on
hillsides could spend weeks in a car with the guy on this
tape.
Can somebody help
me with this? Can somebody redefine the legend for me?
_____________________________________________________________________
Mary Maguire
mmaguire@osm.utoronto.ca Toronto, Canada
"... a hum
came suddenly into his head, which seemed to him
a Good Hum, such
as is Hummed Hopefully to Others."
_____________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:56:03 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Michael Bertsch
<mbertsch@ECST.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady Video (kinda long)
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.3.89.9507211940.C22349-0100000@oracle.osm.utoronto.ca>
Gosh, Neal
Cassady was the fastestmanalive! Of
course he never stops moving.
Michael Bertsch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:21:17 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cassady Video (kinda long)
Mary wrote:
>Despite
having read countless descriptions
>of Neal's
manic behaviour, I was unprepared for actually seeing and
>hearing it --
he just NEVER stops moving. To be honest, it terrified me.
>Perhaps the
disembodied voice made it worse. It sounded old, and reminded
>me of the
crazy people who have that vacant look and just keep on talking
>as you search
their eyes, trying to connect.
This is because
this is what he became. Constantly using
methamphetamine
and ritalin along
with LSD most likely helped this happen.
The fellow
Kerouac hung
around with was greatly changed by then, just as the drunken
older Kerouac was
a reflection of his younger self. The
Cassady you saw
here was just a
few short years from pre-mature death.
I think i saw
these videos you saw around 13 years ago in Berkeley. Then
they were films
and some guy from Oregon (Ken Babs ???) brought them down
and showed them.
Charged a few dollars. They weren't very
good but were
still fun to see.
I think along
with the drug,s the dehumanization of him by the hippies,
making him
"The Fastest Man Alive" and, as he put it, "Keroassidy"
helped
to put him into
this detatched state. But mainly it was
the drug use that
escalated in the
early sixties that he took part in.
Also, and maybe
most importantly, read The First Third, his autobiography.
It is telling in
that he was actually born a street person as we would call
it now. His father was a wino and he was brought up
in the wino community.
It is to his
credit that he did as well as he did.
The effect of
prison also probably helped to bring about his downward slide.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:01:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
Minor Characters
is an excellent book. You might also
check out How I Became
Hettie Jones, (by
Hettie Jones) another fine book about women & the Beats.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 10:26:22 GMT
Reply-To: JLynch@ldta.demon.co.uk
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: John Lynch
<JLynch@LDTA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
Minor Characters
is a wonderful book, and I recommend it to anyone with any
interest in
Kerouac and Cassidy. Joyce Johnson is a
good writer, she was
there, and she
provides a degree of objectivity not always found in writings
by/about the
Beats
--
John Lynch
"You told me
again, you preferred handsome men
But for me you
would make an exception"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:07:30 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: NYU Conference
The Kerouac
Connection is seeking articles, reviews, photos, and interviews
in connection
with the NYU Conference on The Writings of Jack Kerouac. There
are no specific
length and style restrictions for coverage of this event; if
you have
something to say, I will work with you on structuring it for
publication.
The deadline for
submissions is August 15, but contact me before that if you
are interested.
I am also
interested in audio tapes, transcriptions or original copies of the
talks presented.
Presenters may submit their work directly to the magazine
for
consideration.
I would also
appreciate any brochures, fliers, or posters about the event
that could be
sent my way.
Submissions may
be sent by email to keroconnec.aol.com or to:
The Kerouac
Connection
PO Box 462004
Escondido, CA
92046-2004
Submission on
disk (mac preferred) are encouraged.
Mitchell Smith,
Editor
The Kerouac
Connection
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:05:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Mitchell Smith
<Kerolist@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac Connection
The Kerouac
Connection #27 (Winter 95 Issue) has just been published and is
now
available! This issue features papers
and reviews from the NYU Beat
Generation
Conference, including papers on Kerouac, Corso, and Ginsberg.
There is also a
memorial section on Charles Bukowski. The section contains
some Bukowski
poetry and drawings, plus memorial pieces by Neeli Cherkovski
(author of the
bio "Hank"), Gerald Locklin (longtime Buk friend and
co-editor), and
Michael C. Ford as well as poetry by same and others.
The NYU coverage
will continue in KC #28 due out in July with more papers as
well as up to the
minute news on the Kerouac Estate legal battles, from the
Jan Kerouac Press
Conference at the NYU Conference to current developments.
As always, the
issue contains news on Kerouac and Beat-related publications,
upcoming events,
listings of articles and papers published on Kerouac, and
letters from
around the world.
Subscriptions are
$20 for 4 issues (foreign orders may send personal checks
in your nation's
equivalent of $20--no cash please).
Single issues can be
obtained for
$5. If you wish to order both issues on
the NYU Conference (#27
& 28), you
can prepay $9 for both (or indicate that you want a 4 issue
subscription for
$19). Checks made payable to The Kerouac Connection. The
magazine address
is:
The Kerouac
Connection
PO Box 462004
Escondido, CA
92046-2004
I hope to hear
from you in the near future, and thank you for your interest.
Mitchell Smith,
Editor
The Kerouac
Connection
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:54:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kerouac Connection
Mitchell -
In addition to my
regular subscriber's copy, please send us
10 copies of new
issue with invoice at dealer's discount.
Thanks.
Jeffrey H.
Weinberg
Water Row Books
PO Box 438
Sudbury MA 01776
tel 508-485-8515
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:01:58 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Josephine Thomson <Josephine=Thomson%OAE%AVN@SMTPGATE.DOTC.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: beats and the femmes
Thanks for all
the suggestions on the books to read - scribbling them down &
ringing the
bookstore is a great way to waste the first half hour at work on a
Monday morning.
Kristen, thanks
for making me think more specifically about what I meant to
say...still
thinking.
Josephine
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:57:17 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Raymond Holloway
<urhollow@UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are You On Our Mailing List?
In-Reply-To: <950705145645_25814261@aol.com>
On Wed, 5 Jul
1995, Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:
> Our
mail-order catalogue is filled with the best from Beat writers: Kerouac -
> Ginsberg -
Burroughs - Corso - Whalen - McClure, many others. Nice used
> copies,
scarce first editions, recordings, videos, posters, T-shirts, etc.
> Thousands of
Beat items in stock. Lots of Bukowski too. If you'd like to be
> placed on
our mailing list, please send your snail-mail address. It's free.
> Satisfaction
guaranteed. Free Search Service too.
> Cisco
Harland
> Water Row
Books
> PO Box 438
> Sudbury MA
01776
> Tel
508-485-8515
> Fax
508-229-0885
> e-mail
waterrow@aol.com
>
Suscribe Raymond
Holloway urhollow@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:40:39 -0400
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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>
Subject: NOWHERESVILLE
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: MAILER-DAEMON@emout04.mail.aol.com (Mail
Delivery Subsystem)
To: DanLauff@aol.com
Date: 95-07-27
00:45:39 EDT
-------
=_aaaaaaaaaa
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Description:
Session Transcript
550 cunyvm
(tcp)... Host unknown
550
beat-l@cunyvm... Host unknown
-------
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message/rfc822
Content-Description:
Returned Content
Received: by
emout04.mail.aol.com
(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA222419851; Thu,
27 Jul 1995 00:37:31 -0400
Date: Thu, 27 Jul
1995 00:37:31 -0400
From:
DanLauff@aol.com
Return-Path:
<DanLauff@aol.com>
Message-Id:
<950727003731_123952034@aol.com>
To: beat-l@cunyvm
Subject:
Nowheresville
Readers should be
aware of NOWHERESVILLE an adult comic book-noir referred to
as Kerouac meets
Chandler. It is published by Caliber
Press. Try your local
comic dealer or
Caliber's 1-800-346-8940 for credit card orders.
-------
=_aaaaaaaaaa--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:11:20 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Gene Simakowicz <Genebard@AOL.COM>
Subject: MTV
Maybe it's just
me,but what is this On The Road business MTV is putting on
the airwaves with
these kids traveling cross country in an RV? Maybe I'm
getting old or
cynical. This is one of the times I'm thankful that I'm in my
forties.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:04:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Kristen VanRiper
<pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV
In-Reply-To: <950728081119_42661723@aol.com> from
"Gene Simakowicz" at Jul 28,
95 08:11:20 am
>
> Maybe it's
just me,but what is this On The Road business MTV is putting on
> the airwaves
with these kids traveling cross country in an RV? Maybe I'm
> getting old
or cynical. This is one of the times I'm thankful that I'm in my
> forties.
>
it's a group of people
thinking they are doing something original.
(sort
of like sex. i'd
be surprised if any have read kerouac.) why television?
it's what they
relate to. i grew up watching way too much tv.
most people my
age have. i'm
24. would i roam around the country in
an rv while people tape
my every move and
mtv foots the bill? no. i see nothing
bold or innovative in
this. just goes
to show you, it's not age, it's perception.
*smirk*
kristen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:36:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: THE WORLD IS ITS OWN MAGIC
<952GRINNELL@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV
everything has
been done before. except now, it's done
in color and
in an
air-conditioned RV (fully equipped, i'd bet).
back to the
future, but
without the sweat!
claudia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:23:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Lisa Bonelli <BONELLI@SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: MTV
Didn't Wolf
follow around the Merry Prankster in Kesey's bus, driven
by Neal Cassady,
and then write a book about it: the electric
kool-aid acid
trip, or something to that effect. So, yes, everything
has been done before.
This is definately OTR meets the MTV generation.
lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:39:59 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: GOING DOWN 1
Comments: To:
derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>
whew! i finally edited out all those
unwanted "uncontrolled" char-
acters....of
course, maybe they will magically reappear, quite beyond
my comprehension
or control, when this arrives at its designated desti-
nation-points....this
is a story i wrote about 2-&-a-half years ago &
haven't done
anything with yet (finally succeeded ? in uploading it),
actually it's one
in a series of "chapters" of a projected hypothetical
"novel"
a few more of which i may send later....if anyone happens to be
in boston august
4-8 check out the international chinese philosophy
conference at
boston university (school of theology, i think), where i'll
be presenting a
paper on the i ching and derridean "writing"--perhaps as
part of a panel
where comparative issues concerned/intertwisted/inter-
twined with the
(real or imaginary) concepts of
"reason"/"rhizome"/"tao"
may be being
discussed, or at least entertained....
frank w. stevenson, national taiwan normal
university, taipei
GOING DOWN
=20
1. the roach
=20
in media res in molecular gaps,
interstellar interstices of=20
cowhide molecules
of his aged leather sandals, whisked from
the=20
market in kabul
in early august when they felt still fresh and=20
invigorated by
the crisp mountain air, his left foot came down on=20
solid concrete,
molecules densely packed, on a cracked and lit-
tered sidewalk in
taipei in a depressing light rain. he was=20
remembering his
trip across afghanistan and india to thailand and =20
the far east,
seventeen years earlier as the crow flies as he=20
reckoned it.=20
sad, a little. nostalgia. that's life, mon.
"'tis the fate=20
man (and cow?
cowhide molecule?) was born for/'tis moi you mourn
for."=20
sam was walking back to his apartment in
southern taipei, where
he dwelled with
taiwanese wife and daughter. he passed the univer-
sity building on
his right, glanced up at his 8th floor english=20
department office
(feeling faintly paranoid, on the vertiginous verge=20
or twinge of
nausea), then straight and left onto the narrow=20
alley, down one
block....he watched the leather sandals at the end =20
of grey
pipe-stems that were his pants come down on soft and gutted=20
concrete that
seemed to open abysmally in the rain (k'an, water, the=20
abysmal, one yang
between two yin's) beneath his feet.
how can i still have these old sandals? he
wondered. he=20
hadn't worn them
for years, thought the disappeared, then=20
found them the
night before purely by chance in an old cardboard=20
box and put them
on that morning on a whim....riding on a whim,=20
riding in a
boxcar...they were reminding him of temps perdu,=20
perhaps a
talisman, magic carpet lifting,
lilting....soft voices=20
calling, leather
squeaking, molecular mouse squeaks....lightly=20
wafting him
=A0ack, and/or lifting back to front, to the=20
"now"....relativity,
which train stopped and which=20
moving?....front
to back and back to front, deja vu, experience=20
of previous
lifetimes....all in the frontal & occipital lobes, he=20
thought, all in
the f-ing chemicals...tho that's an effrontery,=20
hah! to sheer
transcendental idealists, to la belle metaphysique=20
perhaps and la
plupart de la pensee continental, to paradigms,=20
pair o' ducks, or
(in a word) paraplui.=20
the rain was picking up so he opened his
umbrella and raised=20
it moments before reaching the ta men ko,
"main door mouth" of=20
his apt bldg
on left. then he was taking (the)
unwieldy key out=20
of left pants
pocket, after shifting umbrella to right hand in=20
heavy rain now,
and fumbling to unlock the clumsy iron door...inside,
the key back to pocket, folding the
umbrella...each action seemed
infinitely slow
and painful to him, as if caught between the molecular
moments and stuck
there in an endless viscous mass, a viscosity of glue,=20
airplane cement
or library paste.... his brain cells "pasted in"....
a great dumb
lumbering elephant wallowing in mud, in
the glutinous
morass, the
abyss, mise en abime, he commenced the slow and tiring walk=20
up five steep
flights of filthy stairs in a dark, warm and very humid=20
stairwell.=20
...it was....he remembered the feeling now
in northern india,=20
autumn sunshine
rich and balmy, almost decadent after (arid dried-shit-
smell) catharsis,
purification of the persian desert, crossing from=20
pakistan at
amritsar and loving the green trees and grass and the cows
everywhere,
owning the place, the milk, india springing you, incense=20
curry pulsing with life in varansi in the streets, down
by the sacred=20
river ganges
debauched bodies burned to ash and then
sitting at the
streetside stalls
drinking the bang lassies ("shoma bang mikashid?")
with flees
"the flying dutchman," who
almost set his beard on fire
by accident
lighting the hash pipe in katmandu as they rolled howl-
ing on the dusty
wooden floor, and walking beside the holy river=20
in bodh gaya with
mark.....that was great, the clear blue sky and=20
not too hot in
the north of india in when? november of '75? just=20
before heading
north for nepal.....the tree, the temples every-
where, and then
down by the river where buddha had walked, talk-
ing with mark...
he was lying now in his bathtub in taipei,
the water a less=20
dense medium than
concrete or leather, trying to cool off before=20
commencing his
morning's reading....or perhaps writing....
they were standing by the bodhi tree
beneath which buddha sat=20
and meditated
for many months on life as pain due to
human=20
attachment and
supposedly gained enlightenment. mark said,=20
"there's so
much suffering, i mean awareness of
suffering, under=20
that tree. so
much compassion. they say he was doing kind of a
christ trip, you
know, taking on himself the suffering of mankind
in order to
overcome it....in a way."
sam was looking at the tree.
"basically he just saw that it's=20
all passing
quickly, right?" the fleeting desire to get high=20
played in the
back corners of his mind but he tried to ignore it.=20
"yep, to see clearly, to really know
that it's all passing=20
quickly, going
down fast, everything going down and
we're also=20
going
down...."
but sam thought this a natural intuition of all life-
forms (even
extra-terrestrial ones?), embedded in their bones,=20
that they were
"going down fast," that they were beings in and of=20
time--he had
always felt this (poets, artists surely felt it,=20
that's why they
wanted to catch the fleeting meaning, freeze it=20
in the form of
their work)--not derived from or dependent on any=20
philosophy or
religion, though perhaps these images--buddha under=20
his tree--somehow
helped people to focus on this awareness, to=20
foreground
it....as art also did, in another way?....but just life's
fleetingness, not
necessarily it's "going down"?...."or perhaps just
passing, not
necessarily down or up...."
mark reflected. "right, but that's the
point: the just passing=20
is sad, its
painful to us because of our illusion of standing still,
thinking we
should be standing still, wanting to stand still and not
change but we
can't so our passing has the sense of being a downer....
i mean, that's
the point: we change, we die, right? we don't want to
die, become
nothing.
sam was thinking (now, in his tub, he was also thinking)=20
there was some
sort of paradox--life just passing because there's=20
death but death
is an end, a limit, no more passing--but he=20
couldn't quite
think it through. they had stared at the tree for=20
a long time; it
made an indelible impression. then they'd walked=20
down by the river
and mark had started talking about the beauty=20
of the river, the
meadow and trees and temples behind (gesturing=20
widely), the
beauty of all things. =20
"it's all beautiful but it's all going
down....or beautiful=20
because it's
going down?" sam took off his sandals and started=20
wading into the
shallow, pleasantly cool water. his thinking led=20
back to the same
old paradox: beauty in the passing or in the=20
illusory form
that would fix it?=20
mark stood just on the shore, pondering it.
"i don't know,=20
sam.
but...." (looking around him, laughing, gesturing widely with
both arms)
"....it's a high, right? it's an UP, man! it's fucking=20
BEAUTIFUL!"
He was laughing his mark-laugh.=20
"shit, you're right." this notion
reinforced his own paradox-
ical bent and sam
thought about it, wading in the shallow river=20
water.
"maybe all going down and so, as heraclitus would say,=20
going up at the
same time? the way up is the way down? the 'just=20
passing' equals
the simultaneous, paradoxical up-and-down?"
mark pondered it, pulling papers.....
he went on, feeling the molecules of water
around his feet:=20
"so =A0then
this awareness, is it purely contemplative, based on a=20
formal identity
of opposites (going down/coming up), or=20
pragmatic, based
on the actual experience of personally going=20
down the drain,
the great cosmic sink, and coming back up again=20
in an altered
form, the form of an enlightened being, a cockroach=20
for
example?"=20
mark pondered it, pulling papers from the
right side pocket=20
of his white
cotton vest and rolling up a "j" faster than anyone=20
else he'd known
could do it. then they were smoking one, mark=20
just on the shore
in white cotton pants, open vest and sandals,=20
sam in brown
cotton pants so thin and light rolled up, red cotton=20
vest open too to the breeze and sun, up to his
knees almost in=20
the sacred river,
onto which were falling lightly the ashes of=20
their momentary
passing. it was great. life was great. hemingway=20
fishing his
river, where fishing was also "tragic"...a balance,=20
perhaps....tathgatha,
"suchness".....
"or maybe there's no down. maybe
passing is just going up,"
mark said, the last
word choked off by the toke but he raised the=20
hand not holding
the joint to express the point & then they both=20
were holding
their breaths, sam as if in a sort of sympathetic=20
resonance, &
then bursting out. they were getting high.
sam shrugged his shoulders, arms extended
on either side with=20
both palms facing
up.
"no sam, sam, wait" passing him
the j "it's not that it's =20
all going down
and we maintain the illusion of going up--this is=20
what people
think, right? this is why they get ripped? (laughing=20
uncontrollably
with the burst of exhaled smoke)--but it's not that,=20
sam, no! it's
the OTHER WAY AROUND!"....he was
starting to get=20
excited in a
certain way he had, speaking faster, gesticulating,=20
eyes gleaming
from behind the black beard of youth....
sam held it as long as he could, feeling
the river between=20
his toes, and
then breathed out the smoke, thinking of molecules=20
in air
..."cruising at a certain altitude..." mark laughed and he=20
passed it
back..."do you want the roach?" passing it....thinking=20
of smoke
molecules in the air, of ezra pound (now, lying in his=20
tub, he thought)
("still stone dogs/caught in metamorphosis/biting
empty
air")....(or rilke: "throw the emptiness from your arms/to
feel the expanded
air")....or just frozen, in the abysmal water=20
running through
your veins like time, in the abysmal sky breathing
through ancient
lungs, in mid-flight, tasting the aftertaste,=20
ashes under the
tongue.....and then mark came in and they waded=20
silently in small
circles of river water glittering in sunlight.
they were
definitely stoned.
=20
or had been, once, he thought, lying naked
in luke-warm water=20
in his tub in
taipei about 16 years later. yes, they had passed=20
the joint and
gotten stoned that time and then that had passed.=20
the getting
stoned in bodh gaya, like a lot of things before and=20
since, had
passed. even the ashes of their passing that floated=20
in the warm
currents of the river had passed. you could freeze=20
the moments but
you also couldn't freeze them, like ice they=20
would be already
melting.=20
=20
he lay in the cooling water in his tub and
clenched his=20
fists. he felt
like a fucking roach that had climbed up out of=20
the drain into
the merely human world of money and concrete=20
walls, into shit
city, and then couldn't find its way back=20
down.....or was
it the other way around?
=20
=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=
=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A=1A
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 09:43:40 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: unstrung signifiers (fwd)
Comments: cc:
Seth Stevenson <SethSteve.@Brown.Edu>
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul
1995 19:46:04 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
Cc: Seth
Stevenson <SethStevenson@Brown.Edu>
Subject: unstrung
signifiers
BUT I do also like Auerbach's book,
especially as it is such a fine
piece of
"traditional" (pre-post-modern, pre-post-structuralist) scholarship
and of
"close reading" (that art apparently lost to all except perhaps the
Derrideans, oddly
enough)....of course, the question of what mimesis or
RE-PRESENTATION
finally IS and of whether ART is ultimately MIMESIS of
"WIRKLICHKEIT"
or something else (like maybe expression, impression,
mere
"pression," language games, unstrung chains of confused
"signifiers"
looking for a
quick fix, power "discourses"--with automatic transmission
and up to 500
horsepower--sort of swimming around with cleched fists and
copulating with
one another, as our foucauldians friends
the "cultural
critics"
might have it) is an ever-burning issue in literary theory......
Frank W. Stevenson, N.T.N.U., Taipei
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 03:13:39 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Nicholas Molise
<OttoMadX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: MTV (blah, blah, blah)
Comments: cc:
Seymour360@aol.com
Of course this
MTV crap has gotten way out of hand. But
they are after all,
just making money
off the fact that nothing is original anyhow.
Everything,
everyone is
cool. Nothing you hold sacred is sacred
anymore. Even the most
raw and
underground, untainted thing you know, be it an author, artist,
whatever, will
soon be expolited and sold as t-shirts for $24.95 in the back
of Rolling
Stone. We have become a target
market. Even now hidden away in
some backwards
mailing list on the internet, people are at this very minute
plotting on ways
to sell our dreams in slick, gooey packaging.
Its really sad to
see all the great writers and ideas that came out of the
beat generation
boiling down to another hollywood flick or ads for kahkis at
the Gap. But perhaps it was always that way. Hollywood did a number with
Subterraneans and
look where they published Kerouac's articles in his later
days -
Playboy. He was so ashamed that he could
only get published in some
magazine he
couldnt even show to his mother. Could
it be that all of this
was expolited
from the beginning and we just have to overlook it. None of
the beat
generation authors were superheros to begin with and now they are
all just
perpetuating the image. Ginsberg is a
crabby old man living on old
ideas and
borrowed notions. Him and the rest of
the gang that are still
around hold
meetings and seminars, making money off their former
associations. Recently they held a Kerouac conference at
NYU for what, $350
a person. Doesnt anyone else see this as ironic
capitalism. I bet they were
all wearing Jerry
Garcia ties as well.
The thing to
remember is not how much money they are going to make selling
what has inspired
you as different flavors of bubble gum - but the fact that
you were inspired
in the first place. No one here would
deny that reading
Kerouac or
Bukowski or even Hemingway for the first time made you think that
you were the only
person in the world - that what you were reading was
especially for
you. Well, it is up to the point that
you dont get
disappointed
every time someone tries to sell your art as used tires. I mean
after all - we do
live in America. Explotation is what we
do best.
And besides all
of this has been done before. This same
message written, any
kind of angry
replies you may decide to write defend Ginsberg - they have
already been
written. Its like critizing Tarentino for ripping off John Woo
films - all we
know about film comes from other films, so why not? Were all
just living on
third generation images anyhow.
Nick.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:03:45 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: Re: RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)
Comments: To:
deleuze-guattari@jefferson.village.virginia.edu
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul
1995 19:02:35 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
Cc: phil-lit
<phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
Subject: Re:
RECENT DISCUSSION (fwd)
Thank you, Ms. L.B. Bissell, for your
wondrous reply-post, full of
brilliance and
wit and at a level of sophistication (Oxford....hmmm, that
might explain
it....notice typical Yank inferiority complex at work here,
which may help to
explain following "ant" metaphor with Lilliputian amp-
litudes)
sufficient to keep me luxuriously "feeding" upon it
for days and
weeks, at my leisure in the late afternoon sun....(more or
less like a swarm
of hungry ants feeding upon the sweetest honied
carcass....)
I realize I'm probably too quick to reject
the (seemingly, but perhaps
I've
over-simplified them, perhaps that's the point) more blatantly political
and
"politically correct" forms of criticism so fashionable now, e.g.
cultural studies,
post-colonialism, etc: BUT I would still maintain (as
I did at a recent
American Lit conference here where evveryone was saying
we must emphasize
plurality and DIFFERENCES among ethnic groups, no
old-fashioned
notion of lit as expressing UNIVERSAL human qualities was
to be
allowed--because it's always the ones in "power" that define the
univversal, is
that it? this seems nonsense to me--that when Hamlet says
"Alas poor
Yorick,/I knew him well, Horatio/He was a fellow of infinite
jest"....or
when Chguang-tzu says "This is also that," there is something
deeper and more
"univversal" at work or play than the levvel of
socio-ethnic-political
"differences" or group-identities....)
fws
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:56:04 +0800
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: Frank Stevenson
<t22001@CC.NTNU.EDU.TW>
Subject: going down 2 (fwd)
Comments: To:
derrida <derrida@cfrvm.cfr.usf.edu>
----------
Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul
1995 18:55:15 +0800 (CST)
From: Frank
Stevenson <t22001@cc.ntnu.edu.tw>
To: phil-lit
<phil-lit@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
Cc: fict-of-phil
<fiction-of-philosophy@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
Subject: going
down 2
journal: summer 1974
may 12:
climbed damavand with ted heal and his
brother tom saturday:
great experience!
getting cold and windy near the top, quite a
contrast with the
(sublunary) temperature down here....the best
part was the tea
houses going up and the the look on taxi driv-
ers' faces when
they saw 3 ferengi walking out at the bottom....
on the spur of
the moment we jumped in a cab and came down to
bist-o-char
esfand for dinner at the indian restaurant....
trying to forget elaine: bike, desert,
hashish all help a lot
(in reverse order
perhaps). jim baines says i've got to
"get a
lot
stronger" so i've started riding solo into the desert and
practicing my
sufi meditation at least once a week--usually
saturday
afternoons, sometimes sundays.
baines also said last week that
"persians have no souls."
(but he fucks
irani chicks in the ass whenever he gets the
chance.) amazing!
the scots even bigger bigots than the brits?
may 21:
ok! getting better at this desert meditation
thing--sometimes
focus on breath
like ted (zen technique supposedly) but it seems
to work better
when i take the desert itself as mantra, just try
to fill my mind with
the emptiness of the (concept of the) desert
itself. (in fact
it's what the sufis did according to mashid, but
he could be
bullshitting.) i can just cruise for about an hour
now, try to
stretch it out a little longer each time by holding
before me (in my
mind's eye, before my mind's nose?) the obvious
reward, which i
keep right in my shirt pocket. (but then, you
ask: how can
i "empty my mind"? or
"desert" my mind? good ques-
tion, mate.)
("dessert" my mind?) (or, au contraire, perhaps
drooling
pavlovian dogs are the best little meditators?)
may 28:
moved into ted heal's apt. yesterday. seems
it will work out
ok. (a
psychologist & a philosopher, after all.) teheran clear
and dry, not too
hot at denver altitude, crisp air invigorating,
snow-capped
damavand at 18,000 ft. shining as ever out window to
the
northeast...(actually my old window view was slightly better
but ted has a
larger, and better placed, balcony.)....feeling
good after first year of teaching....crazy ted likes to
talk
about
"learned helplessness-ness" with the students at school,
and most nights
he stays in his room alone listening to old
beatles and
stones records...."hey jude...."
june 3:
shit man, got too ripped after my
"deserted mind" session
yesterday, a
little too heavy on the "dessert": walked (stag-
gered?) a few
steps too far away (gazing at HORIZON, part of my
technique) from
bike and spent 2 hours walking in circles till i
found it, allah
be praised....(little prairie mounds just high
enough).... that
was cool though, i sort of enjoyed it--i somehow
knew i'd find my
bike as the alternative was too unthinkable....
just high enough!
june 10:
hah! mashid calls jim baines a "true
gold-digger"--irani term
for ass-fucker.
why have i never been interested in anal
sex with women? (of
course, not with
men, but why not even with women?) too "dirty,"